RV-Archive.digest.vol-bc

February 19, 1996 - February 27, 1996



Date: Feb 19, 1996
Subject: Re: Rudder spar location??
John The information you seek is on SK6-1 in my plans. It is one of those fold out sheets with the skin layouts on them at the back of the section. RV4 Pat A @aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
Subject: Flap Hinge Pins (fwd)
Date: Feb 19, 1996
Yes, this is typical. You have to use a drill to push in that much pin on the flaps. The mod that Van published some time back is to open up about a 2 inch section in the center of the flap hinge and then make the flap hinge pin be two pins. You slip one pin in from the center of the flap out toward the wing tip and the other from the center in toward the fuselage. You can then bend a 90degree bend on each end of the pin and then safety wire them together. I did this on my 4 and it worked out fine. Much better than forcing that long pin and trying to clear the fuselage. > From root Mon Feb 19 17:40:47 1996 > Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com > Message-Id: <v01510100ad4ea20c3619@[204.248.40.69]> > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 16:02:40 -0600 > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > From: midwest.net!crazer(at)matronics.com (Chester Razer) > Subject: RV-List: Flap Hinge Pins > Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com > Precedence: junk > Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > I've just fitted my second flap and took extraordinary care when squeezing > the rivets that hold the hinge on both the flap and the wing skin. I have > to use an electric drill to turn and push the hinge pin in when hanging the > flap. I'd like to know if anyone else has this problem and what I can do > to manually install the pin without the use of a drill. > > Chet Razer > crazer(at)midwest.net > > > Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 19, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Flap Hinge Pins
>I've just fitted my second flap and took extraordinary care when squeezing >the rivets that hold the hinge on both the flap and the wing skin. I have >to use an electric drill to turn and push the hinge pin in when hanging the >flap. I'd like to know if anyone else has this problem and what I can do >to manually install the pin without the use of a drill. > >Chet Razer >crazer(at)midwest.net Chet: Did you cut the hinge pin in two and remove several hinge loops in the center of the length of hinge? This will help a little. The other thing you might try is a trick I used on my horizontal cowl hinge pins. I chucked the pins in a drill and Scotch-brited all of the cad plating off. I then de-greased the pin and gave it a light coat of "Moly Coat G" (a molybdedum disulfide (sp)). For inserting the pin, I bent a 90 degree end about 2 /12-3 inches long. I then drilled a hole a little larger diameter than the pin in the end of a piece of scrap 1/2" plywood, slid the pin into the hole (the wood piece would now be perpendicular (gotta get a spell checker for this thing) to the wing. You can then use the wood to put pressure on the pin to slide it into place. I found I had to use the wood piece as I couldn't get my fingers into the gap between the wing and flap and get any kind of leverage. You might slide the Moly coated pin into the flap and wing portion of the hinge loops to transfer a little on all surfaces. It takes very little of this product. I thought this product would work pretty good and not drain off to contaminate surfaces that will be painted later. A half inch bead of this stuff about the diameter of a #2 pencil lead should do all of the hinges. Better use too little- you can always use more. Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 19, 1996
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: VOR Antennas (fwd)
> > VOR!!! Who needs an ugly VOR antenna hanging out in the wing these days? > > The last thing I would want on my RV is an ugly VOR antenna on it. > > Just install a GPS and go fly. > > Even my hand held comm radio gives me a VOR fix with the normal comm antenna. > > Some of you IFR types may want a VOR, OK. Don't send me flame mail. > > Herman Of course. VOR technology is obsolete for VFR flight, and fast approaching obsolescence for IFR flight. I'd never consider installing a VOR if I was only going VFR. BUT... for IFR, a VOR/ILS with glideslope is still the only game in town for most precision approaches. And even if you DO want to pay Jeppesen the exorbitant fees they charge for the REQUIRED GPS IFR updates ($500/yr last time I looked), the IFR GPSs still aren't quite ready to replace the entire IFR approach structure currently in place. I won't put any more antennas on my plane than I have to, but if by the time I finish my plane I can't rely on a GPS for enroute and approaches, there may have to be at least one VOR antenna sticking out somewhere. :-( (Although by the time I get my plane done, VORs will be something only really old guys remember anything about .) > I'm not an IFR pilot, but do you need a VOR for IFR flight? No. You need "Two-way radio communications system and navigational equipment appropriate to the ground facilities to be used." (FAR 91.205 (d)(3).) But for practical IFR in the states anyway that usually means VOR, ARNAV, or IFR GPS. Randall Henderson RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 19, 1996
From: finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen )
Subject: Re: VOR Antennas (fwd)
What you need to know about comm and VOR antennas is this: You really need a "line-of-sight" (unobstructed path) between the antenna and the ground station for maximum reception. Since the RVs are made of aluminum, the skin will act as a barrier (shield) to the radio signals. Also (apart from the root of the antenna) there probably should be a distance of about the same length as the antenna, or more to the nearest piece of metal. That's why I don't understand how builders can get away with putting them (inside?) the fiberglass wing tips). Finn You wrote: > > I'm not an IFR pilot, but do you need a VOR for IFR flight? I do >not like antennas outside the airframe, so I would have to agree with >Herman. > > A possible reason for production airplanes putting the VOR on the >tail might be that is the most cost efficient place or way to do it. I >have found that production aircraft are built to minimize production costs >and then just to meet minimum mission requirements. > > How about placing the antenna inside the cockpit just under the >canopy in the baggage area? > >Bob Busick >RV-6 >rbusick(at)nmsu.edu > >> VOR!!! Who needs an ugly VOR antenna hanging out in the wing these days? >> The last thing I would want on my RV is an ugly VOR antenna on it. >> Just install a GPS and go fly. >> Even my hand held comm radio gives me a VOR fix with the normal comm antenna. >> Some of you IFR types may want a VOR, OK. Don't send me flame mail. >> Herman >> >>> >>> I am very close to completing the skeleton for the VS on my '6 and am >>> wondering if I need to mount the VOR antenna in it before skinning. >>> How have other builders handled this? Is there enough room between >>> the top rib and the fiberglass cap to install it later, or does it >>> have to be mounted now? I am not really comfortable with putting them >>> in the wing tips as some others have done, as it seems that it would >>> cause some "blanking". There must be some reason for all of the >>> production a/c put it on the tail. >>> >>> Also what is the feeling about the wire type vs the "Towel Rack" kind? >>> >>> Scott Fink >>> RV6 HS done, VS rear spar drilled >>> >> >>Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas >>mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HowardRV(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 19, 1996
Subject: Re: Flap Hinge Pins
As I will soon be installing flaps, what caused the problem?? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Feb 19, 1996
Subject: Re: VOR Antennas
>> > >> > Also what is the feeling about the wire type vs the "Towel Rack" kind? >> >> Around my part of RV land we put them on the bottom of the tailcone in front >> of the tailwheel spring. Works great and it doesn't poke your eyes out when >> you or others walk around the airplane. >> >Any problems with getting bent or anything from catching weeds, etc. down there? > >Randall Henderson >RV-6 > Nobody has bent one around here. They receive well too. Regards: Rusty ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 19, 1996
Subject: Re: Aileron Counterbalance
Don't mess with the aileron counterweights. They work fine as designed, to speeds way over what any normal RV will be traveling- in exess of 275 MPH indicated! Ben there, done that- sure had my attention.. Check Six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 19, 1996
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: Re: tools
You wrote: > >I have ordered my first kit froms Vans and need to get some of the >metal working tools. I am interested to know of the experiences >other builders have had with the packaged deals some companys offer. >I especially would like to know of any outstanding deals or poor >deals. > >Thanks for any info. > >Charles Wilmer, Jr. >Sheridan, WY >cwilmer(at)wave.sheridan.wy.us > Get your aviation specific tools (rivet squeezer, rivet gun, etc, etc) from Avery or Cleaveland. Get the other stuff (air compressor, drill press, etc, etc) from wherever. I am passing along this recommendation that I have received from the vast majority of experienced builders. Best of luck. Bill Costello -- ___ _______________________ \ \ _ _ / / \ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello \ X-*#####*******......./ Chicago / o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on emp. \ \__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com / \______________________\ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 19, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Vertical Stab Problem RV4
>Anyway the rear bulkhead in my fuselage is not plumb, it is tilted forward at the top >approx 3/8 to 1/2 inch from plumb. The bottom is in the correct position (tail >spring mount is correct). What this means is that the vertical stab is not >flush with the bulkhead because the forward bottom of the stab hits the top >of the fuselage as it is tipped forward toward the rear bulkhead. Follow me >so far. > >I think I can fix this one of two ways, 1. Using a larger angle on the >top of the rear fuselage and letting it hang over the back slightly (1/2 the >error) and bolting the vertical stab to this as per plans. The other half of >the error could be removed by triming the front bottom of the stab to allow >it to fit. >I personally am leaning toward the first method. The stab will be attached >in the same manner as it would be normally, the only differance being, there >would be a gap between the vert. stab spar and the rear bulkhead of the >fuselage. > >Joe Hine >joehine(at)mi.net >506-452-1072 Home >506-452-3495 Work > Joe: I think the first method will work, but this is sure a problem that I would contact the factory about. Bob Skinner ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KUKULSKIM(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 19, 1996
Subject: Re: tools
You wrote: >I have ordered my first kit froms Vans and need to get some of the >metal working tools. I am interested to know of the experiences >other builders have had with the packaged deals some companys offer. >I especially would like to know of any outstanding deals or poor >deals I am familiar with three reputable companies that offer metal aircraft tool packages, in fact, that are specifically aimed at the RV servies . They are (in no particular order): 1. Avery Enterprises: 817-439-8400. My dated 1994 catalog shows a starter kit for $464.25 (and a special sales price then of $427. Their Deluxe kit lists at $1110.25, sales price of $999. This kit has some very good tools in it from my experience (for example, it starts you off with a deep throat rivet/dimple arbor (very useful) and a Tatco rivet squeezer, a $126 tool in itself that is far superior to other makes). 2. Cleaveland Aircraft Tool and Material: 515-432-6794. 1995 catalog lists a empennage tool package for $556. This kit seems very basic, but my experience with Cleaveland (owner Buzz Lauritsen's RV-4 was the 1989 Oshkosh Kit-Built Champion) it that everything he offers is of top-notcg quality. His dimple dies are easily the best I have seen to date. Buzz's wife, DJ, offers interior kits and conapy covers as well. 3. U.S. Industrial Tool & Supply Company: 1-800-521-4800. Offers a "Kit Builder's Kit" for $665, very basic package. Also offers a Master Tool Kit for $770. The Master Tool Kit is what I bought back in 1989 and essentially what I built my tail with. The tools have all served me well, with the exception of a lower quality rivet squeezer. I was happy with the tools I bought, but I have added considerably from both Avery and Cleaveland. If I were to be starting now, I would get Avery's Deluxe tool set for $999 and augment with additional tools from both Avery and Cleaveland as desire and budget allows. Remember the old advice, and I paraphrase - buy a cheap tool, and it will end up costing you more when you finally buy what you should have in the first place. Don't skimp up front if you're serious about building an RV. That my $0.02 worth. Hope it helps. Mike Kukulski (kukulskim(at)aol.com) RV-4 N96MK (Attaching empennage) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 19, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Flap Hinge Pins
I had the same trouble, seems common. Vans put out the word some time back about making it two piece hinge. Cut in the middle, cut out a couple sections of hinge mat., slide pins in from center to ouboard and to inboard. It's in the vans RVATOR. I did this plus I first used a little valve lapping compound. With pin out, put a little compound on the pin, use drill and work it a ways in, out and more compound, back in and keep it up. Soon the hinge wears enough that the pin will go in OK with out the drill and just a little grease on it. I know, it has worn away some of the hinge material, so it may last only 40 years instead of a life time! Hasn't 'loosened' up the fit that I can tell. I don't worry about if the plane will fly without the flaps, 'cause I don't think they will falloff. John D RV6 completed. >I've just fitted my second flap and took extraordinary care when squeezing >the rivets that hold the hinge on both the flap and the wing skin. I have >to use an electric drill to turn and push the hinge pin in when hanging the >flap. I'd like to know if anyone else has this problem and what I can do >to manually install the pin without the use of a drill. > >Chet Razer >crazer(at)midwest.net > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 19, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Vertical Stab Problem RV4
Can't visulize just how much it is off. If it makes you feel any better, mine didn't fit perfectly either. But it was close enough that I could bolt the spar on, and then force the forward end of the stab. thats over the fuse. part up enough so that I could fit it. I'm left with some tension on the spar, it is bent(the spar) very slightly, but not where you can see it. I had to force it into place, clamp it to drill the holes. Incidentally, those holes to drill were about as hard to get to as were the ones for the canopy hinge pins(tilt canopy). John D RV6 completed. >Okay Guys, here goes, > >I've made a couple of errors while building my 4, but this seem to be the >biggie so far--I'm a bit embarrassed to tell the world about this one. > >I began assembling the tail surfaces to my fuselage the other day and I have >discovered what appears to be a big problem. It appears the last member of >the jig, the small piece at the end was not vertical, I have check the jig >and the cross member at the rear that the small piece of 2 X 4 was nailed >to had a twist to it and I obvously didn't check it enough. Anyway the rear >bulkhead in my fuselage is not plumb, it is tilted forward at the top approx >3/8 to 1/2 inch from plumb. The bottom is in the correct position (tail >spring mount is correct). What this means is that the vertical stab is not >flush with the bulkhead because the forward bottom of the stab hits the top >of the fuselage as it is tipped forward toward the rear bulkhead. Follow me >so far. > >I think I can fix this one of two ways, 1. Using a larger angle on the >top of the rear fuselage and letting it hang over the back slightly (1/2 the >error) and bolting the vertical stab to this as per plans. The other half of >the error could be removed by triming the front bottom of the stab to allow >it to fit. 2. Building a new vertical stabiliser and redoing it by >changing the angle of the bottom ribs to allow the stab to fit. This would >result in a stab tipped forward slightly. I have no idea if this would >cause any problems. > >I personally am leaning toward the first method. The stab will be attached >in the same manner as it would be normally, the only differance being, there >would be a gap between the vert. stab spar and the rear bulkhead of the >fuselage. > >Finding this error made me franticly measure everything else I could find on >the fuselage but fortunately no further problems were found. > >Any thoughts will be most welcome. > >Joe Hine >joehine(at)mi.net >506-452-1072 Home >506-452-3495 Work > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: "Mark D Hiatt" <OttoPilot_MSN(at)msn.com>
Subject: RVator Subscription?
My fist and last RVator was the "Dec 95" issue with the Mazda-powered RV-4 on the cover. Has there been one, since then? When does it normally come out? I got a subscription with the plans and info kit and so on, but so far, only that single issue. Mark D Hiatt OttoPilot_MSN Aviation Forum Manager, The Microsoft Network ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 19, 1996
From: meehan(at)coopext.cahe.wsu.edu (Don Meehan)
Subject: Re: Aileron Counterbalance (fwd)
If I recall, you DO NOT fool with these! They are already balanced for what is needed for the design of that particular control system. They should not be balanced in the same fashion as the elevators. I beleive Van will tell you to leave them alone! check before you do. Don Meehan > I think these come out very close to being balanced. > When the ailerons are installed on the wing with the hinges, just > see if they stay in position. > If you needed to add some weight, you could stuff a wad of AL foil > in one end and push it in sevral inches and then poor some melted > lead into the end. If it is then too heavy, drill out some of the lead. > With the pop rivets into the pipe to hole the AL leading edge, that > should hold the lead in. >> >> A new subject for debate; >> >> The ailerons on the RV-6 are counterbalenced with a galvanized steel pipe. >> The pipe is cut to a specific length and riveted to the aileron skeleton. >> Unlike the elevators, where you mass balanced the the entire surface, the >> ailerons may not be balanced, but are counterweighted. >> >> I was thinking about flutter being a very serious and deadly concern with >> ailerons. Would it not be better to mass balance the ailerons, instead of >> just getting close with a counterweight? Or maybe we are suppose to >> balance the surface once it it mounted? And how would you do this if you >> needed to subtract weight? >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> Bob Busick >> RV-6 >> rbusick(at)nmsu.edu > >Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas >mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com > > > Don Meehan WSU Cooperative Extension Island County Coupeville, WA 98239-5000 206-679-7327 meehan(at)wsu.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KUKULSKIM(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 19, 1996
Subject: Re: Vertical Stab Problem RV4
You wrote: >the rear >bulkhead in my fuselage is not plumb, it is tilted forward at the top approx >3/8 to 1/2 inch from plumb. The bottom is in the correct position (tail >spring mount is correct). What this means is that the vertical stab is not >flush with the bulkhead because the forward bottom of the stab hits the top >of the fuselage as it is tipped forward toward the rear bulkhead. OUCH! I just finished attaching the vertical stab on my RV-4 today. I had a very slight deviation from perfectly plumb, but I could fix mine by trimming the forward bottom of the stab skin about 1/8" or so. It still is not perfectly plumb, but you'd have to drop a plumb line to see it. I would be hesitant to extend your top attachment angle out and have so much of the vertical stab not lie flush against the F-412 tail bulkhead. This flush fit would appear to be structural to me. My gut feel is that either the fit of your F-412 bulkhead must be corrected by drilling out and re-riveting it in the correct place, or by fabricating some kind of tapered spacer to bring the stab spar into plumb and allow a direct transfer of loads from the spar to the bulkhead. I think a call to Van's is definitely in order to get their recommended approach before doing anything Mike Kukulski (kukulskim(at)aol.com) RV-4 N96MK (Attaching empennage). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 19, 1996
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com>
Subject: Re: VOR Antennas
On Mon, 19 Feb 1996, Scott Fink wrote: > I am very close to completing the skeleton for the VS on my '6 and am > wondering if I need to mount the VOR antenna in it before skinning. > How have other builders handled this? Well, if I install a VOR, I'll probably put the antenna either on the bottom of the fuselage between the wings or under the H.S. It seems to me that if you put it at the top if the tail of a '6, it would be in the way and people would keep running into it. But if you are going to install it at the top of the VS, then just do two things for now: 1. Dril a hole in each VS rib for the coax to pass through. Install a snap bushing in each hole, then run a length of string through them so that you can pull the coax through later. 2. Don't attach the fiberglass tip to the VS yet. Leave it off until you actually install the antenna Best Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB Jigging the fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 19, 1996
From: Scott.Fink(at)Microchip.COM (scott fink)
Subject: VOR Antennas
Jim Ayers I got several replies about mounting the antenna under the HS on the fuselage. I wonder about reflections and ground plane interference from the HS. Yes, I do intend on at least making the plane IFR ready, I have gotten stuck too many times under a low overcast or in lousy visibility and couldn't get home when I wanted to, even spent a couple of days in some places, although a couple of extra days in San Diego wasn't so bad! ;-) Is Bob Archer reacheable on the list or the net? I am a BSEE, but not well versed in the Black Arts of RF design, so talking to a guru could be very helpful. Where can I get more info on the Sport Aircraft antenna? Thought about the eye poking problem with the whisker antennas, that is one reason for the towel rack type, they also have some better specs. (look cooler too, but putting them under the HS could lead some people to use them for hand holds) If this is getting to much for the list, direct mail me at scott.fink(at)microchip.com Best Regards, Scott Fink ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: RV-List: VOR Antennas Internet_Exchange Date: 2/19/96 7:12 PM >Scott Fink said; >I am very close to completing the skeleton for the VS on my '6 and am >wondering if I need to mount the VOR antenna in it before skinning. >How have other builders handled this? Is there enough room between >the top rib and the fiberglass cap to install it later, or does it >have to be mounted now? I am not really comfortable with putting them >in the wing tips as some others have done, as it seems that it would >cause some "blanking". There must be some reason for all of the >production a/c put it on the tail. IMHO, the production aircraft mount the antennas where they do because that's what they have always done. It's called a paradigm. And you're right. Mounting the dipole antenna in the wing tip doesn't work as well as on the tail in some directions. If you want to take advantage of a working lifetime of antenna design and testing experience, install the Sport Aircraft Model 1 (ACS) Nav antenna in the wing tip. Bob Archer designed the Sport Aircraft series of antennas. >Also what is the feeling about the wire type vs the "Towel Rack" kind? Don't install the wire type on top the vertical stabilizer facing aft on a taildragger, unless you like poking yourself in the eye when you bend over to pick up the tail. BTW, the wire type receivers the about the same regardless of forward or aft direction. The horizontal stab and the wing blanks and reflects the signal for either type of antenna on the top of the vertical tail, and it gets worse the closer the VOR antenna is mounted to the horizontal stab. (1st Design Theory - Everything is a compromise.) Jim Ayers LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder 102337.2252(at)compuserve.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 19, 1996
From: kightdm(at)carol.net (Danny Kight)
Subject: Fiberglass Filler Question
I'm (still) in the process of finishing up the empennage on my -6, and I don't know when to fill all the little gaps between the aluminum and fiberglass. I am planning to Alumiprep, Alodine, and prime with Crown Metro epoxy primer (the Boeing stuff) on all exterior surfaces. (Interior is Alumiprep and Zinc Chromate). The tip joints will be filled with an epoxy/microballoon paste. I riveted the fiberglass tips on today. Can anybody offer some insight on whether to prime first then fill the cracks, or fill and sand, then prime? I'm really anxious to finish the empennage and get on to the wings. Those beautiful Phlogiston spars keep calling for me to get started! Regards, Danny Kight kightdm(at)carol.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: Jim Ayers <102337.2252(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: VOR Antennas (fwd)
>Finn Lassen said, >What you need to know about comm and VOR antennas is this: >You really need a "line-of-sight" (unobstructed path) between the >antenna and the ground station for maximum reception. Since the RVs >are made of aluminum, the skin will act as a barrier (shield) to the >radio signals. Also (apart from the root of the antenna) there >probably should be a distance of about the same length as the antenna, >or more to the nearest piece of metal. That's why I don't understand >how builders can get away with putting them (inside?) the fiberglass >wing tips. If you use an antenna designed specifically for the inside of the wing tip, then it will work as good as an antenna mounted on top of the vertical stabilizer. However, I agree with Finn. I don't understand how they work either. But if you want to find out, Bob Archer will be giving his antenna presentation at Lakeland this year. Jim Ayers LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder 102337.2252(at)compuserve.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DougPage(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 20, 1996
Subject: Engine overhaul video
I purchased an airplane engine overhaul video from Seminar Publishers Suite 1102, 210 Fifth Avenue, New York NY 10010. It seems applicable to Lycoming 4cylinder engines such as the 320 and 360. It's title is "How to Overhaul Airplane Engines" and the order number is BCT-490A. It persuaded me, a barnyard mechanic, that I could probably overhaul a Lycoming. You need a set of micrometers and also the Lycoming specs for the particular engine. I am working on the fuselage of my 6A and have not yet purchased an engine, although, like everybody else, I am looking. I forget the price of this video, but I think it was around $40. I make no representations regarding this video, and I would like to hear from others who have actually used the video to repair an engine. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: Jim Ayers <102337.2252(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: VOR Antennas
>Scott Fink said; >I got several replies about mounting the antenna under the HS on the >fuselage. I wonder about reflections and ground plane interference >from the HS. Yes, I do intend on at least making the plane IFR ready, >I have gotten stuck too many times under a low overcast or in lousy >visibility and couldn't get home when I wanted to, even spent a couple >of days in some places, although a couple of extra days in San Diego >wasn't so bad! ;-) Bob Archer is an excellent person to talk to about what happens with the different locations of an antenna on an aircraft. >Is Bob Archer reacheable on the list or the net? I am a BSEE, but not >well versed in the Black Arts of RF design, so talking to a guru could >be very helpful. Where can I get more info on the Sport Aircraft >antenna? I just talked with Bob Archer. Unfortunately he is not on the net. However, he said that he would be happy to talk with anyone who is interested in knowing more about antenna design and antenna location on an aircraft, as well as specifics about his Sport Aircraft antenna design. Bob Archer can be reached at (310) 316-8796. Jim Ayers LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder 102337.2252(at)compuserve.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rolf Hankers" <ROLF(at)abraham.iff.ing.tu-bs.de>
Date: Feb 20, 1996
Subject: tools
Confirmation of reading: your message - Date: 18 Feb 96 18:09 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: tools Was read at 10:02, 20 Feb 96. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rolf Hankers" <ROLF(at)abraham.iff.ing.tu-bs.de>
Date: Feb 20, 1996
Subject: rv-accident-summary
hey, I am trying to get infos about the NTSB-accident-summaries. Does someone know how it is possible to get these summaries, or even better can someone mail the RV-related summaries to me? Thank you very much. Rolf Hankers flying RV-4 ROLF(at)abraham.iff.ing.tu-bs.de ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com>
Subject: Re: Flap Hinge Pins
Join the club! There are a few things you can do. I use dry graphite as a lubricant; just a dab on each wing hing pin section is enough. This makes it alot easier. I still need to use a drill the first couple of times but after that things loosen up and the pin can be driven in all the way with a small vice grip tapping on it with a hammer. Dan Boudro RV-4 N9176Z On Mon, 19 Feb 1996, Chester Razer wrote: > I've just fitted my second flap and took extraordinary care when squeezing > the rivets that hold the hinge on both the flap and the wing skin. I have > to use an electric drill to turn and push the hinge pin in when hanging the > flap. I'd like to know if anyone else has this problem and what I can do > to manually install the pin without the use of a drill. > > Chet Razer > crazer(at)midwest.net > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OrndorffG(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 20, 1996
Subject: Re: VOR Antennas
Scott , There are two good ways to put a VOR ant. on a RV6. first you can get a ant. off a c150 c152 and fit it into the cap of the VS , the mounting blocks can be modified to fit. with the ant. facing back. The second way is I have plans for a VOR ant. that fit s into the wing tip. I know of at least 6 RV flyers with this ant. that love it. The only draw back with it is that it can not be used for glide slope , where the VS mounted one can. If you would like a copy of the plans let me know...George Orndorff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OrndorffG(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 20, 1996
Subject: Re: tools
Charles, If you want a worry free tool buy call Avery Enterprises at 817-439-8400 get a catolog and order your tools. They stand behind every thing they sell...Geoge Orndorff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com>
Subject: Re: Aileron Counterbalance
I had a professional test pilot (with parachute) flutter test my first RV-4 at 220mph and it did just fine. That's good enough for me. Dan Boudro RV-4 N9167Z getting close! On Mon, 19 Feb 1996, Robert Busick wrote: > A new subject for debate; > > The ailerons on the RV-6 are counterbalenced with a galvanized steel pipe. > The pipe is cut to a specific length and riveted to the aileron skeleton. > Unlike the elevators, where you mass balanced the the entire surface, the > ailerons may not be balanced, but are counterweighted. > > I was thinking about flutter being a very serious and deadly concern with > ailerons. Would it not be better to mass balance the ailerons, instead of > just getting close with a counterweight? Or maybe we are suppose to > balance the surface once it it mounted? And how would you do this if you > needed to subtract weight? > > Any thoughts? > > Bob Busick > RV-6 > rbusick(at)nmsu.edu > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com>
Subject: Re: Vertical Stab Problem RV4
IMHO, I would also consider repositioning the bulkhead to its correct position. This seems like a nightmare but it really shouldn't be to bad if the fuselage is off the jig. The holes left can be filled with rivets and some doubler pieces on the inside. I've done this in other places. Dan Boudro RV-4 N9167Z On Mon, 19 Feb 1996, joehine wrote: > Okay Guys, here goes, > > I've made a couple of errors while building my 4, but this seem to be the > biggie so far--I'm a bit embarrassed to tell the world about this one. > > I began assembling the tail surfaces to my fuselage the other day and I have > discovered what appears to be a big problem. It appears the last member of > the jig, the small piece at the end was not vertical, I have check the jig > and the cross member at the rear that the small piece of 2 X 4 was nailed > to had a twist to it and I obvously didn't check it enough. Anyway the rear > bulkhead in my fuselage is not plumb, it is tilted forward at the top approx > 3/8 to 1/2 inch from plumb. The bottom is in the correct position (tail > spring mount is correct). What this means is that the vertical stab is not > flush with the bulkhead because the forward bottom of the stab hits the top > of the fuselage as it is tipped forward toward the rear bulkhead. Follow me > so far. > > I think I can fix this one of two ways, 1. Using a larger angle on the > top of the rear fuselage and letting it hang over the back slightly (1/2 the > error) and bolting the vertical stab to this as per plans. The other half of > the error could be removed by triming the front bottom of the stab to allow > it to fit. 2. Building a new vertical stabiliser and redoing it by > changing the angle of the bottom ribs to allow the stab to fit. This would > result in a stab tipped forward slightly. I have no idea if this would > cause any problems. > > I personally am leaning toward the first method. The stab will be attached > in the same manner as it would be normally, the only differance being, there > would be a gap between the vert. stab spar and the rear bulkhead of the > fuselage. > > Finding this error made me franticly measure everything else I could find on > the fuselage but fortunately no further problems were found. > > Any thoughts will be most welcome. > > Joe Hine > joehine(at)mi.net > 506-452-1072 Home > 506-452-3495 Work > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca
Subject: Re: Aileron Counterbalance
Sometimes the requirement for flutter protection dictates greater than 100% mass balance(100% = balance, 100%+ = overbalance). That pipe IS a mass balance weight and was sized by the designer to create an overbalance condition. I am not aware of any procedure to check the amount of overbalance (hanging a known weight at the T.E. and checking for balance). It may change due to finishing or repairs. Perhaps the amount of overbalance built in is not likely to be effected by typical builder variations. David Fried DF-6 C-____ dfried(at)dehavilland.ca ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RV-List: Re: Aileron Counterbalance Date: 2/19/96 06:35 PM A new subject for debate; The ailerons on the RV-6 are counterbalenced with a galvanized steel pipe. The pipe is cut to a specific length and riveted to the aileron skeleton. Unlike the elevators, where you mass balanced the the entire surface, the ailerons may not be balanced, but are counterweighted. I was thinking about flutter being a very serious and deadly concern with ailerons. Would it not be better to mass balance the ailerons, instead of just getting close with a counterweight? Or maybe we are suppose to balance the surface once it it mounted? And how would you do this if you needed to subtract weight? Any thoughts? Bob Busick RV-6 rbusick(at)nmsu.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer)
Subject: Re: Flap Hinge Pins
Thanks for the info regarding the mod for the flap hinge pin, should have though of that myself. For the benefit of those of you who haven't built and installed flaps I'll share my experiences with you. On my first flap I made the mistake of using 1/8 x 1/2 (SSF-1) flat set (Cleveland Aircraft Tools) on the stationary portion of my Tatco Squeezers when installing the hinge to the trailing edge of the bottom wing skin. There's nothing wrong with that set, its just the 1/2" diameter contacts the eyes of the hinge and deforms them slightly unless you eyeball the back side each time. The 1/2" set is on the blind side of the squeeze and I'ts hard to see. The fix is to drill out the B/O hinge half and when reinstalling it use a 3/8" dia. set on the blind side of the squeezer, this smaller dia. set stays out of the hinge eyes. I make this mistake when installing my trim tab hinge and had to drill out that hinge also, so yes, I make the same mistake twice. As far as the new installation goes, I went to great lengths to true all the components and still ended up with a pin that is stiff going it but I'm sure it will be manageable by cutting the pin in half and installing each half from the center of the flap. One last note, when the pin is installed in either hinge half it slid in with NO resistance, when the halves are mated and pinned is when the binding occurres. Thanks for the help. Priming and riveting top skins of #2 wing tomorrow. Chet Razer crazer(at)midwest.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OrndorffG(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 20, 1996
Subject: Re: Flap Hinge Pins
Chester, It is not uncommond to have to us a drill to get this hinge pin in, not to worry as long as it does go in and you can get it back out. this pin will loosen up with time as do most pins...George Orndorff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: av8r(at)hic.net
Date: Feb 20, 1996
Subject: Re: Fiberglass Filler Question
>I am planning to Alumiprep, Alodine, and prime with Crown Metro epoxy primer >(the Boeing stuff) on all exterior surfaces. (Interior is Alumiprep and >Zinc Chromate). The tip joints will be filled with an epoxy/microballoon >paste. I riveted the fiberglass tips on today. Danny... If you just fill the gap with epoxy/micro I would be worried about cracking. I think you either need to fair with a thin layer of F/G cloth & resin with micro over the top, or even simpler, leave the gap showing. If you ensure that the gap is of even width , say 1/32, it does not look unattractive after paint. When I did mine, I filled. If I had to do it again, I would leave the gap. Regards, Rob Lee - Painting RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Terry Williams <terry(at)is.com>
Date: Feb 20, 1996
Subject: Re: rv-accident-summary
This is what I came across on the web. http://acro.harvard.edu/GA/ntsbs.html There are tons of disclaimers about the veracity of the data, but it is probably reasonable. tw There is a search engine that produced this when searching on RV-4 in the aircraft make/model field. >ACRO.HARVARD.EDU Data__ > >NTSB Reports > >_ > >Disclaimer: This database may not be complete or up-to-date. Do not >rely on it in any way. I am not liable if you miss anything. > >_ > >To retrieve several NTSB's at once, click on the check buttons for >the desired NTSB's, select where to send the NTSB's and in what >form, then click on the Retrieve button. > >_ > >_01/22/89: TUCSON, AZ, LOSS OF CONTROL - IN FLIGHT, TAKEOFF - >INITIAL CLIMB, 14 CFR 91_ >) _10/31/89: EATON, OH, LOSS OF CONTROL - IN FLIGHT, CRUISE - >NORMAL, 14 CFR 91_ >) _05/09/93: GREENWOOD, SC, LOSS OF ENGINE POWER(TOTAL) - >NON-MECHANICAL, MANEUVERING, 14 CFR 91_ >) _07/24/93: LAKE DELTON, WI, IN FLIGHT COLLISION WITH OBJECT, >MANEUVERING, 14 CFR 91_ >) _12/26/93: LA VERNE, CA, LOSS OF ENGINE POWER(TOTAL) - >NON-MECHANICAL, TAKEOFF - INITIAL CLIMB, 14 CFR 91_ >) _04/23/94: WESTON, ID, LOSS OF ENGINE POWER(TOTAL) - >NON-MECHANICAL, MANEUVERING, 14 CFR 91_ >) _07/17/94: TWISP, WA, HARD LANDING, LANDING, 14 CFR 91_ >) _08/01/94: GLENDIVE, MT, IN FLIGHT COLLISION WITH TERRAIN/WATER, >TAKEOFF - INITIAL CLIMB, 14 CFR 91_ >) _02/25/95: BRIGHTON, CO, LOSS OF ENGINE POWER, TAKEOFF - INITIAL >CLIMB, 14 CFR 91_ >) _07/15/95: ELK RIVER, ID, LOSS OF CONTROL - ON GROUND/WATER, >LANDING - ROLL, 14 CFR 91_ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 20, 1996
Subject: Re: Flap Hinge Pins
>I've just fitted my second flap and took extraordinary care when squeezing >the rivets that hold the hinge on both the flap and the wing skin. I have >to use an electric drill to turn and push the hinge pin in when hanging the >flap. I'd like to know if anyone else has this problem and what I can do >to manually install the pin without the use of a drill. > I used a tip in the "14 years of Rvator". Cut out about 3 eyelets in the center of the hinge, and run 2 shorter pins in from the center. Half as much hinge to go through, and you can tie the ends together in the center to hold them. Much easier to install and remove. -- Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 20, 1996
Subject: Questions
I'm just starting to wire all the goodies into my 6A. Does anyone have input that might save me a headache or two? Also, is the 35amp alternator from Van's sufficient, and reliable? I'm not putting a whole lot of power-hungry avionics in. Am I correct in assuming that a 35a breaker is correct for this application? Also, what are the master and starter diodes for? They're in the Van's catalog, but I can't figure out what purpose they serve. Any input on the ISSPRO auto-type gauges? I notice the oil pressure gauge only goes to 100psi. Is this enough? The oil temp gauge only goes down to 140deg, is that sufficient? Sorry if this sounds stupid, but my learning curve has just gone vertical here... -- Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
Subject: Prop Extension torque (fwd)
Date: Feb 20, 1996
> > Does anyone know the proper torque for the 3/8" bolts that attach the > aluminum 4" propellor extension to the crankcase flange? Bob Skinner RV-6 > > Here is a snip from what I wrote up on props, extensions, prop bolts, etc. For metal props or for bolting prop hub extensions to the crankshaft, Sensenich recommends the following torque values. Note that this torque is higher than what is noted in most AN bolt torque tables. The bolts should be clean and lubricant free. Bolt Diameter(in) Torque (in-lb) Torque (ft-lb) AN6 3/8 280 to 300 23 to 25 AN7 7/16 480 to 540 40 to 45 AN8 1/2 720 to 780 60 to 65 If the bolts are over torqued, the bolt may be stretched. The main problem here is the 3/8 bolts due to their smaller size. FYI, be advised that in Van's newsletter that they have published bolt torque values from time to time and as far as I can tell they have all been wrong for use with prop bolts. -------------------------------------------------------- *NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my own and are independent of my employer. Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831 MS: 9530 fax: 512-838-1801 mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 20, 1996
Subject: 50w halogen light
I picked up one of the 12v 50w lights that others have talked about. I got the "wide" beam one to try out as a taxi light. All the ones I saw don't have any type of cover on them. Has anyone made a cover out of plexi or similar? It seems like this bulb puts out a lot of heat and is very close to where the cover would be. I don't think it would last long out in the open. Any ideas? Thanks, -- Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: dls(at)neptune.kpt.arl.psu.edu (Dan Shades)
Subject: Fiberglass on tail
I have recently finished my tail with exception of the fiberglass tips. Someone once told me that the fiberglass is best installed just prior to fitting the tail to the fuselage to prevent damage to them during storage. Does anyone know of any other advantages/disadvantages of doing this? Dan Shades dls(at)neptune.kpt.arl.psu.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: "Mark D Hiatt" <OttoPilot_MSN(at)msn.com>
Subject: RE: VOR Antennas or GPS-Only?
After sitting in on the AOPA Town Meeting near here recently and going over some of the advertising and PIREPS in various places on the net, I'm going to plan on a GPS-only RV-6A. There are getting to be more and more, and better and better GPS receivers on the market. And the handwriting is on the wall for the end of the VOR-and the rest of the ground-based, radio-based navigation radios, beacons, beams and what-not, for that matter. I'm not willing to spend the bucks for a radio that will be obsolete by the time I get my car paid-off, nor clutter up the lines of the tip-up RV6A with a lot of antennae that will only slow me down and get me cranky when the last transmitter finally goes dark in 2010. I'm building a simple, cheap RV-day/night VFR. But even if I plan to get my IFR ticket at some point, by then they'll have a lot more GPS approaches and re-written regs to support them. This, from someone just starting out, but planning on an airway system for the next century... and looking forward to an extra knot or two. Mark D Hiatt OttoPilot_MSN Aviation Forum Manager, The Microsoft Network ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Fiberglass Filler Question
>>I am planning to Alumiprep, Alodine, and prime with Crown Metro epoxy primer >>(the Boeing stuff) on all exterior surfaces. (Interior is Alumiprep and >>Zinc Chromate). The tip joints will be filled with an epoxy/microballoon >>paste. I riveted the fiberglass tips on today. > >Danny... >If you just fill the gap with epoxy/micro I would be worried about cracking. I >think you either need to fair with a thin layer of F/G cloth & resin with micro >over the top, or even simpler, leave the gap showing. If you ensure that the gap >is of even width , say 1/32, it does not look unattractive after paint. > >When I did mine, I filled. If I had to do it again, I would leave the gap. > >Regards, Rob Lee - Painting RV6A > Danny, I agree with Rob. I faired mine in on the RV-6 (no cracks after 200 hrs) but I think a well done job with out filler looks better and intend to do this on the RV-6A I'm building now. We've got to have some way to tell our superior airplanes from the plastic ones :) Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: "Marian K. Rendall or Scott Sawby" <mkr(at)netw.com>
Subject: Tool list - band saw
I noticed on the catagory 3 tool list a metal cutting band saw is listed. If anyone is contemplating the purchase of a band saw for an RV project, a wood cutting band saw would be a better choice. I have both and use the wood for the thin aluminum typical of an airplane. It cuts at least a hundred times faster than the metal cutting. I use a 1/2" , 4 tooth per in. blade which is a common wood blade. If it is too dull to be of use on wood, it will work just fine on aluminum, and it gets that way pretty quick anyway. I don't think a blade ever gets too dull for aluminum. One word of caution: be sure the aluminum is flat against the table, the saw can get grabby. Scott Sawby - RV6A fusilage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA>
Subject: Re: Aileron Counterbalance
On Mon, 19 Feb 1996, Robert Busick wrote: > A new subject for debate; > > > Any thoughts? Perhaps the ailerons are already mass balanced by the opposite aileron since they are rigidly connected via the control system? And the rudder isn't mass balanced at all, is it? I am not suggesting there is anything wrong with the design, just curious as how and why it works as it does. Curt Reimer ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM>
Subject: Re: VOR Antennas
> Thought about the eye poking problem with the whisker antennas, > that is one reason for the towel rack type, they also have > some better specs. (look cooler too, but putting them under the > HS could lead some people to use them for hand holds) Then why not make them beefy enough to use as hand holds? -- "Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!" -- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs "Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander)
Subject: Re: Fiberglass Filler Question
>>I am planning to Alumiprep, Alodine, and prime with Crown Metro epoxy primer >>(the Boeing stuff) on all exterior surfaces. (Interior is Alumiprep and >>Zinc Chromate). The tip joints will be filled with an epoxy/microballoon >>paste. I riveted the fiberglass tips on today. > >Danny... >If you just fill the gap with epoxy/micro I would be worried about cracking. I >think you either need to fair with a thin layer of F/G cloth & resin with micro ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If you do this, don't forget the old surfboard maker's rule ... taper the edges 1 inch for every oz. of fiberglas cloth weight .... If you do this on a flat surface, the glass strip will be undetectable. However, I think I agree with Rob (see below), and won't glass mine in. ... keep glassing ... Gil Alexander .... rule left over from building a 13m wooden sailplane ... :^) gil(at)rassp.hac.com RV6a, #20701 >over the top, or even simpler, leave the gap showing. If you ensure that >the gap >is of even width , say 1/32, it does not look unattractive after paint. >When I did mine, I filled. If I had to do it again, I would leave the gap. > >Regards, Rob Lee - Painting RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: "Gene Gottschalk (286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Fiberglass Filler Question
I agree with Rob and Bob. I feel the smartest looking job is to leave the seam. The problem is the vague lip molded into the fiberglass tips. I doesn't line up well with the skin and varies in depth. I tried to clean the lip up a little with various methods, but was not satisfied. Although I have not yet finished the tip installation yet, the technique I intend to use is to apply fiberglass release agent on the aluminum skin, celeco the tip on, fill the gap with resin and microballoon. When cured, I'll sand the filler flush with the skin, remove the tip and kill the sharp edges. This should give an exact match to the skin, but look like I intended to leave the seam. I'll let you know how it comes out, but I'm saving the glass for later. -Gene RV6a, starting the firewall. Snip ============================================ >>>I am planning to Alumiprep, Alodine, and prime with Crown Metro epoxy primer >>>(the Boeing stuff) on all exterior surfaces. (Interior is Alumiprep and >>>Zinc Chromate). The tip joints will be filled with an epoxy/microballoon >>>paste. I riveted the fiberglass tips on today. >> >>Danny... >>If you just fill the gap with epoxy/micro I would be worried about cracking. I >>think you either need to fair with a thin layer of F/G cloth & resin with >micro >>over the top, or even simpler, leave the gap showing. If you ensure that >the gap >>is of even width , say 1/32, it does not look unattractive after paint. >> >>When I did mine, I filled. If I had to do it again, I would leave the gap. >> >>Regards, Rob Lee - Painting RV6A >> >Danny, I agree with Rob. I faired mine in on the RV-6 (no cracks after 200 >hrs) but I think a well done job with out filler looks better and intend to >do this on the RV-6A I'm building now. We've got to have some way to tell >our superior airplanes from the plastic ones :) Bob Skinner RV-6 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: Scott.Fink(at)Microchip.COM (Scott Fink)
Subject: VOR Antennas
George, Does the c150/152 antenna have the "hockeypuck" in the center. Most whisker types I have seen have it. On the RV's I have looked at with this type of antenna on them, the puck sticks out of the sides of the VS, which is IMHO not very attractive. It is important to me to maintain the GS option, but I would like to see your plans, how could I get them? You could either mail them directly to me at scott.fink(at)microchip.com or I could send an SSAE to you. Scott Fink ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: RV-List: VOR Antennas Date: 2/20/96 8:03 AM Scott , There are two good ways to put a VOR ant. on a RV6. first you can get a ant. off a c150 c152 and fit it into the cap of the VS , the mounting blocks can be modified to fit. with the ant. facing back. The second way is I have plans for a VOR ant. that fit s into the wing tip. I know of at least 6 RV flyers with this ant. that love it. The only draw back with it is that it can not be used for glide slope , where the VS mounted one can. If you would like a copy of the plans let me know...George Orndorff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JERRYWALKER(at)delphi.com
Date: Feb 20, 1996
Subject: Flap Hinge Pins
> > > Yes, this is typical. You have to use a drill to push >in that much pin > on the >flaps. > > The mod that Van published some time back is to open up about a 2 inch > section in the center of the flap hinge and then make the flap hinge > pin be two pins. You slip one pin in from the center of the flap out >oward the wing tip and the other from the center in toward the fuselage. > You can then bend a 90degree bend on each end of the pin and then safety >wire them together. > Dimple countersinking the hinge will severly deform it and cause a good bit of greif. On my last flap I machine countersunk the flap spar. I dimpled the skin and left the hinge as pristine as possible. I am able to slide the complete pin the entire length of the hinge. Althought there is some restraint. ___ * UniQWK v4.02* The Windows Mail Reader I would rather walk into a prop than go to Pope. '[1;35;40m-=> Delphi Internet Jet v3.012 - (C) PBE ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 1996
From: Stephen Bell <steve(at)discus.lincoln.ac.nz>
Subject: merits of injected engines? & other questions, IO-320,IO-360
Hi guys, Here's a topic for discussion, i'm getting to the point where i'm starting to consider the powerplant options for my RV6, I anticipate using an injected engine and would like to hear some discussion on the relative merits and the installation(weight?,size?) of injected vs non-injected engines in an RV, i've read through most of my RVators, (still a fairly small collection :) browsed the list archives etc.... and have picked up a few useful points but a number of questions remain. Here are some FAQ style questions to kick off the discussion. (Sorry about the length) I'm expecting advantages in efficiency, aerobatics (-ve g), & flying at higher altitudes. Is this correct? What is your opinion. What gains in efficiency are there between a std O-320 & an IO-320 What gains in efficiency are there between a std O-360 & an IO-360 (E or B models with parallel valve heads, 180hp) What gains in efficiency are there between a std O-360 & an IO-360 with angle valve heads & how does this compare with an IO-360 B or E Does anyone have lycoming (or other data) for fuel comsumption@rated power for various engine models. O-320 O-360 IO-320 IO-360(B,E models & others) What installation problems are known about IO-360, IO-320 engines? (fitting within cowls, clashes with std firewall/engine mount) - i've read about the IO-320??? mentioned in the RVator which has rear mounted accessories causing a problem. What is an ellison throttle body injector, how does it work, what are it's advantages/disadvantages. What modifications are necessary to a std O- engine to give it inverted fuel & oil capability.? What is the lightest way to give an O-320 this capability? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Stephen Bell | Lincoln University, \--------------------(*)--------------------/ Canterbury, New Zealand. NIMBUS II - Driver XX RV 6 - Growing in the garage. E-Mail: S.Bell(at)ono.lincoln.ac.nz work steve(at)discus.lincoln.ac.nz play rv6-builder(at)discus.lincoln.ac.nz auto:kill_by_subject_keyphrase & archive_useful_stuff, (kill primer, kill Primer, kill PRIMER !!) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Fiberglass Filler Question
This is the approach that I intend to take, although I plan to use something like kapton tape in place of the mold release. The tape will protect the Alclad during the sanding process. Chris Dimplin' dimplin' dimplin' Wow! There are a lot of rivets on those wings. > > I agree with Rob and Bob. I feel the smartest looking job is to leave the > seam. The problem is the vague lip molded into the fiberglass tips. I > doesn't line up well with the skin and varies in depth. I tried to clean > the lip up a little with various methods, but was not satisfied. Although I > have not yet finished the tip installation yet, the technique I intend to > use is to apply fiberglass release agent on the aluminum skin, celeco the > tip on, fill the gap with resin and microballoon. When cured, I'll sand the > filler flush with the skin, remove the tip and kill the sharp edges. This > should give an exact match to the skin, but look like I intended to leave > the seam. I'll let you know how it comes out, but I'm saving the glass for > later. > > -Gene RV6a, starting the firewall. > > Snip > ============================================ > >>>I am planning to Alumiprep, Alodine, and prime with Crown Metro epoxy primer > >>>(the Boeing stuff) on all exterior surfaces. (Interior is Alumiprep and > >>>Zinc Chromate). The tip joints will be filled with an epoxy/microballoon > >>>paste. I riveted the fiberglass tips on today. > >> > >>Danny... > >>If you just fill the gap with epoxy/micro I would be worried about > cracking. I > >>think you either need to fair with a thin layer of F/G cloth & resin with > >micro > >>over the top, or even simpler, leave the gap showing. If you ensure that > >the gap > >>is of even width , say 1/32, it does not look unattractive after paint. > >> > >>When I did mine, I filled. If I had to do it again, I would leave the gap. > >> > >>Regards, Rob Lee - Painting RV6A > >> > >Danny, I agree with Rob. I faired mine in on the RV-6 (no cracks after 200 > >hrs) but I think a well done job with out filler looks better and intend to > >do this on the RV-6A I'm building now. We've got to have some way to tell > >our superior airplanes from the plastic ones :) Bob Skinner RV-6 > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: galexander(at)CCGATE.HAC.COM
Date: Feb 20, 1996
Subject: RE: Questions
*** snip *** > >Also, what are the master and starter diodes for? They're in the Van's >catalog, but I can't figure out what purpose they serve. These diodes are for suppressing reverse spikes caused by current switching through the coils of the master and starting relays. They should be mounted as close to the relay terminals as reasonably possible, and connected in a reverse direction (important ... :^) This is with the line, or the marked end, to the positive terminal. If there is a diode symbol on the part (a triangle with a line across one end), then it should be connected as shown in the ASCII diagram below. If there is just one end of the diode marked a different color, that signifies the "line" end of the diode symbol shown below. If you get the diode in backward, you will either blow the diode or pop the associated breaker. The best mounting method is probably to crimp and/or solder the diode ends to "ring" terminals, and put one ring end under the nut that has the positive coil connection, and the other ring end under the head of the coil mounting bolt (the airframe connection). Insulate the diode lead on the posive side to prevent mishaps ... :^) Switched Power In _________________________________ | | _____|_____ | | | | | | --------- | Relay | / \ | Coil | / \ Diode | | / \ | | ------- |___________| | | | | | |_____________________| | ___|___ _____ Ground/Airframe ___ ... hope this helps ... Gil Alexander RV6A, #20701 ... interior and canopy stuff gil(at)rassp.hac.com *** snip *** ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: 50w halogen light
>I picked up one of the 12v 50w lights that others have talked about. I got >the "wide" beam one to try out as a taxi light. All the ones I saw don't >have any type of cover on them. Has anyone made a cover out of plexi or >similar? It seems like this bulb puts out a lot of heat and is very close to >where the cover would be. > >I don't think it would last long out in the open. Any ideas? > >Thanks, >-- Ed Bundy Ed: Talk about timing. I've been running an experiment on burn time between the GE 4509 and a 55 watt H3 halogen. I bought a couple of "Mini auxiliary lights" from JC Whitney. They are lighter than the 4509's. This light has a lens that is glued to the reflector, so is sealed. Access is on the back for bulb replacement. It is lighter than the 4509 and 1" less in diameter. The 4509 burned out (again) at 7.9 hours. The halogen has 11.9 hours and is fine, so far. I bought a 100 watt H3 bulb at Wally World (Wal Mart) for $5.00 and put it where the 4509 was. I taxied in last night on the 55 watt halogen and felt that it was somewhat marginal, so will probably settle on the 100 or 130 watt H3 ($6.00 and $ 7.00 respectively from JC Whitney.) I'll let you know how long the 55 watt (and later, the 100 watt) bulbs last. It'll be interesting to see if the light housing can stand 100-130 watts. Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Questions
>I'm just starting to wire all the goodies into my 6A. Does anyone have input >that might save me a headache or two? Also, is the 35amp alternator from >Van's sufficient, and reliable? I'm not putting a whole lot of power-hungry >avionics in. Am I correct in assuming that a 35a breaker is correct for this >application? > >Also, what are the master and starter diodes for? They're in the Van's >catalog, but I can't figure out what purpose they serve. Any input on the >ISSPRO auto-type gauges? I notice the oil pressure gauge only goes to >100psi. Is this enough? The oil temp gauge only goes down to 140deg, is >that sufficient? > >Sorry if this sounds stupid, but my learning curve has just gone vertical >here... > >-- Ed Bundy Ed: As expensive as engines are, I would not skimp on the quality of the oil temp and oil pressure gauges. I used Rochester electric instruments from ACS. They're heavy, though. Mitchell makes some small, electric gauges that look good, but I don't know how reliable they are. ACS handles these, as well. I think there is a safety advantage to not running an oil and fuel pressure lines into the cockpit. I also used an elctric primer for the same reason. One of the back issues ov the RVator explains the diodes, I can't remember for sure what function they served. I would highly recommend that you subscribe to the AeroElectric Connection put out by Bob Nuckolls. I wish I would have had a copy before I wired my 6. One of the neatest ideas that he has is to use automotive blade type fuses instead of the "normal" aircraft breakers. I saw a RV at Van's homecoming that had used this method, pretty slick. Bob sells the appropriate fuse blocks, 10 and 20 slots, if I remember correctly. I figured up my panel costs and I could have saved $450.00 had I used this idea. This configuration is considerably lighter as well. I intend to do this on the 6-A I'm building now and will tuck the unit behind the instrument panel. Using this method should open up some panel space although I'll miss the "busy look" of all the breakers. For $450.00, no problem, I can get over it. Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 20, 1996
Subject: Re: rv-accident-summary
>I am trying to get infos about the NTSB-accident-summaries. Does >someone know how it is possible to get these summaries, or even >better can someone mail the RV-related summaries to me? You can get them from the EAA. 414-426-4800. I got the ones pertaining to RV6's from them. -- Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LairdOwens(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 20, 1996
Subject: Re: Fiberglass Filler Question
Danny, Let me throw in my 2 cents. IMO it looks better to have a 1/32 gap between the fairing and the skin. Nothing looks worse (well, ok maybe a few things) than cracks where the fiberglass joins up. I used a thin crafts saw (zona brand) to make the gap after filling. Make sure its staight and even, mine looks great after priming. Regards Laird (Tails done, Wing kit arrived yesterday, gotta go) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 1996
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Fiberglass Filler Question
>>I am planning to Alumiprep, Alodine, and prime with Crown Metro epoxy primer >>(the Boeing stuff) on all exterior surfaces. (Interior is Alumiprep and >>Zinc Chromate). The tip joints will be filled with an epoxy/microballoon >>paste. I riveted the fiberglass tips on today. > >Danny... >If you just fill the gap with epoxy/micro I would be worried about cracking. I >think you either need to fair with a thin layer of F/G cloth & resin with micro >over the top, or even simpler, leave the gap showing. If you ensure that the gap >is of even width , say 1/32, it does not look unattractive after paint. > >When I did mine, I filled. If I had to do it again, I would leave the gap. > >Regards, Rob Lee - Painting RV6A > I have had a look at a lot of rv s and I concur that filling with micro and then painting is a bad idea. The micro slurry doesn't stick well to the aluminium and when things flex a bit you get unattractive cracks in the paint. The nicest looking jobs have used micro to build up the fibreglass until the seam is very uniform but not tried to make a "seamless gap". So just drill out all them pops......... or not as the mood takes you. Leo skinning the fuse ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: Rick Solana <102131.2407(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Ddownloading RV-archive digest
I've tried to download the RV-archive.digest file from the Internet FTP site "roxy.llnl.gov", but I get error messages saying that the user "anonymous" is not recognized. Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong? Or is there another way to get this file for use with the search engine? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Fiberglass Filler Question
Danny, my experience (very limited) is that the filler adheres to the metal better than it does to the primer. Or maybe it causes the primer to unstick from the metal. So, I would fill first. John D RV6 completed. >I'm (still) in the process of finishing up the empennage on my -6, and I >don't know when to fill all the little gaps between the aluminum and fiberglass. > >I am planning to Alumiprep, Alodine, and prime with Crown Metro epoxy primer >(the Boeing stuff) on all exterior surfaces. (Interior is Alumiprep and >Zinc Chromate). The tip joints will be filled with an epoxy/microballoon >paste. I riveted the fiberglass tips on today. > >Can anybody offer some insight on whether to prime first then fill the >cracks, or fill and sand, then prime? > >I'm really anxious to finish the empennage and get on to the wings. Those >beautiful Phlogiston spars keep calling for me to get started! > > >Regards, > >Danny Kight kightdm(at)carol.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Questions
Ed, first off, the best advice I got was from Tony Bengelis, To remember that each wire has only two ends to it. That made the complex problem come down to earth that my limited metality could cope with. The 35 amp alt should do fine. I have a 75, only beause that is what I got the deal on. My alt guage has never gone beyond about 10 amps except once when I had triubles getting it stared at 25 degrees. Then it was about 20 for maybe 2 or 3 minutes. I don't savvy the diode stuff. I have the ISSPRO and have had no trouble with them. The 100 on oil pressure is ok unless you have problems that are bad d d d stuff. The )320 cals for oil press of about 75 at normal. The temp on mine runs from about 140 (or below since that is lowest reading) to about 180 in summer. My guage is 140, space, 180 then some marks higher. I ran into a very ugly sight trying to tie my ground wires into studds. Radio Shack has a nice little terminal bar that really makes a nice, easy, clean installation. I used it for all of my instr. lights. Ran the power through a dimmer, then to the bar, then to each light. Looks clean and is neat. About 3 or 4 years ago, Sport Aviation had a dimmer that you could make for about 25.00. I did it (so anyone should be able to). Works great. They also had one about a comm ant. using Radio Shack parts. Cost about 3.00. I did that, put it in my right tip, and comm over 100 mile all the time. No blanking that I've ever noticed. Keep that learning curve going, That's what all of this is about. Don't let the spaggetti throw you, remember, each one has only two ends. John D RV6 completed. >I'm just starting to wire all the goodies into my 6A. Does anyone have input >that might save me a headache or two? Also, is the 35amp alternator from >Van's sufficient, and reliable? I'm not putting a whole lot of power-hungry >avionics in. Am I correct in assuming that a 35a breaker is correct for this >application? > >Also, what are the master and starter diodes for? They're in the Van's >catalog, but I can't figure out what purpose they serve. Any input on the >ISSPRO auto-type gauges? I notice the oil pressure gauge only goes to >100psi. Is this enough? The oil temp gauge only goes down to 140deg, is >that sufficient? > >Sorry if this sounds stupid, but my learning curve has just gone vertical >here... > >-- Ed Bundy > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer)
Subject: Re: 50w halogen light
Ed, I'm going to use the 12V, 50-60 watt halogen lights also. They do come in a 60 watt variety with a plastic cover over the lense. We use them a lot in the coal mines of S. Illinois and they are very vibration resistant, durable and economical. I don't know what the service life is but it's a long time under continuous use. I plan on two in each wing tip behind some form of plexi wingtip covers similar to the ones Vans sells for installing nav lights. I don't think heating is a problem but I'm going to do some burn tests in a closed box before I go cutting the front leading edge out of my wing tips. Chet Razer crazer(at)midwest.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: RVator Subscription?
At 03:49 AM 2/20/96 UT, you wrote: >My fist and last RVator was the "Dec 95" issue with the Mazda-powered >RV-4 on the cover. >Has there been one, since then? When does it normally come out? >I got a subscription with the plans and info kit and so on, but so far, >only that single issue. > >Mark D Hiatt >OttoPilot_MSN >Aviation Forum Manager, >The Microsoft Network Mark, it comes out 6 times per year. I usually get mine the month after the date of the issue. Dec is the end of the subsciption year, and you may need to check with them that your sub. is into 1996. How ever, give it some time yet, the Feb issue hasn't arrived here yet. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer)
Subject: Re: Fiberglass on tail
I pop riveted my f-glass emp tips on after finishing the tail kit. Just as the plans called for. Don't plan for any antennas or strobes in tail. The CS4-4 rivets are easy to drill out if plans change. Found that in my case the potential for damage or misplacement to the tips was greater if they were left stored rather than on the piece. All my finished pieces have been wrapped in plastic and hung in the corner of my garage from the ceiling. Finished left wing is also bolted to the ceiling where no one except a 7 foot tall person can get to them. Chet Razer crazer(at)midwest.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Fiberglass Filler Question
My 2 cents worth. I agree that as of now if I had to do it over I would not have filled the gap. I did, and each one of mine have developed cracks in the paint. How ever, there is a magic solution. After I had filled mine, I found some fiberglass mat, its the thickness of thin paper, you can actually see through it. It is a random swirl type of stuff, like the tear proof envelopes they have at the post office. You can cut it and it does not fray or unravel. I can't tear it(so I'm a weakling!). I found it about the time I was doing my canopy and it worked perfect except that it is not good for compound curves(no grain to put on the bias). Some of the people around here started using it and really like it. I wish that I could tell you the trade name or so, but mine came out of the trash at the local Fibergrate Manufacturing plant. It is in a roll, 3 or 4 inchs wide. If I had had that when I was doing the tail, I don't think that there would be cracks in them now. John D RV6 completed. >>I am planning to Alumiprep, Alodine, and prime with Crown Metro epoxy primer >>(the Boeing stuff) on all exterior surfaces. (Interior is Alumiprep and >>Zinc Chromate). The tip joints will be filled with an epoxy/microballoon >>paste. I riveted the fiberglass tips on today. > >Danny... >If you just fill the gap with epoxy/micro I would be worried about cracking. I >think you either need to fair with a thin layer of F/G cloth & resin with micro >over the top, or even simpler, leave the gap showing. If you ensure that the gap >is of even width , say 1/32, it does not look unattractive after paint. > >When I did mine, I filled. If I had to do it again, I would leave the gap. > >Regards, Rob Lee - Painting RV6A > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BPattonsoa(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 20, 1996
Subject: Re: Fiberglass Filler Question
>From my experience, if you fill the gap completely and smooth it out, it will look great for the first year or so. Then the crack will develop, and it won't be straight, or regular. If you do fill it in completelly, scribe a notch or straight line, into the filler, right at the edge of the aluminum. That way the crack that will form will not come to the surfact, but will start at the botton of the notch. Bruce Patton ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Feb 20, 1996
Subject: Re: Downloading RV-archive digest
>-------------- >I've tried to download the RV-archive.digest file from the Internet FTP site >"roxy.llnl.gov", but I get error messages saying that the user "anonymous" is >not recognized. Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong? Or is there another >way to get this file for use with the search engine? > >-------------- The Archives are now available from: "ftp.matronics.com" under "/pub/business/matronics" Matt Dralle RV-List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE )
Subject: Re: tools
You wrote: > >I have ordered my first kit froms Vans and need to get some of the >metal working tools. I am interested to know of the experiences >other builders have had with the packaged deals some companys offer. >I especially would like to know of any outstanding deals or poor >deals. > >Thanks for any info. > >Charles Wilmer, Jr. >Sheridan, WY >cwilmer(at)wave.sheridan.wy.us > Charles, Buy all that you can from Avery's and you'll never be sorry. Not always the cheapest, but their service and advice are unbeatable. I usually order and request 2nd day air, and by God, they're here on the second day. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen)
Subject: Landing lights
This is to Ed Bundy. Ed, you asked about landing lights. Here are my thoughts. When I was working on my wing landing light my first thought was that I would never use one of those expensive, 25 hour life aircraft landing lights. This is an experimental and I can use anything I want! The first thing I purchased was a pair of fairly small rectangular QH driving lamps. They had a very thick and heavy piece of glass in front of them and I removed that. I measured their current and I calculated that they only required about 35 Watts of power. However, I realized that that without the glass as a heat sink/dissipator the hot little bulb would probably melt any plexiglass leading edge. I realized that whatever light I used, it needed to be sealed, light weight and bright. My next idea was to use a sealed beam halogen car lamp. I figured I could used hi-beam for landing and lo-beam for taxiing. The standard sealed beam rectangular car lamps are huge, however, I was able to find a very light and small (for a Honda) plastic (Westinghouse) sealed beam quartz halogen rectangular car lamp. I bought a pair at about $20 each and took them home to test them. They were about 50 watts. I live near an airport and one evening as I was driving down the hill from my house I looked at all the cars coming toward me with their headlanps and a Cessna in the pattern above and guess what? The real aircraft landing light was way brighter than the car lamps! You might say I saw the light. The aircraft lamps are white hot and the car lamps are more yellow. They have a higher "color temperature". It happened that at the time I worked with medical lights and radiometers (light meters) and I had become quite an expert on quartz halogen lamp technology. The reality is that due to the physics of it, a 100 Watt airplane lamp is going to be much brighter and have a much shorter life than a 35 or 50 watt car lamp. End of story. I ended up using the 100 Watt aircraft ($12 to $20 each) lamp and made my plexiglass leading edge easily removable for lamp replacement. Also, I intend to make a flasher ($15 worth of Radio Shack parts) for my landing light. What a flasher does, aside from making the light more noticeable for collision avoidance, is to reduce the average temperature of the lamp which will greatly increase the life expectancy. Because the lamp is flashing, the filament remains warm and the therefore the thermal shock of turning it on/off is not a factor. That is my 2 cents worth. PS: To make an acrylic (plexiglass) leading edge is easy. Simply "drape form" it over a mold in your oven for about 10 minutes at 350 degrees F. ____________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: marcelo(at)marcelo.remote.princeton.edu
Subject: RV List WWW Search
Date: Feb 20, 1996
Just to let those people that either don't have a PC which to download Mr. Gibbons search engine to, or can't afford the download time there is an alternative. http://dunkin.Princeton.EDU/.rvlist/ is a WWW Form that will allow you to search through the RV List archives. I haven't spent a great deal of time on it, but if you find it useful I'd like to hear it. Comments and suggestions are also welcome. Marcelo - -- Marcelo Gallardo marcelo(at)marcelo.remote.princeton.edu Test and Evaluation Specialist ...!princeton!marcelo.remote!marcelo Princeton University marcelo(at)Princeton.EDU Advanced Technologies and Applications (609) 258-5661 Make sure your code "does nothing" gracefully. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: Jim Ayers <102337.2252(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: 50w halogen light
>Ed Bundy said; >I picked up one of the 12v 50w lights that others have talked about. I got >the "wide" beam one to try out as a taxi light. All the ones I saw don't >have any type of cover on them. Has anyone made a cover out of plexi or >similar? It seems like this bulb puts out a lot of heat and is very close to >where the cover would be. I buy 12v 50w halogen lights with an integral glass cover and reflector for ~$14 at Ace Hardware. They are advertised as having a 5000 hr life. They are about 2 inchs in diameter, and are available as a spot or wide beam. If you still have your Dec. '95 Sport Aviation, You can just make out the two lights on the front of the cowl. (The glass curve, although slight, just matches the cowl. (Sometimes you just get lucky.)) Jim Ayers LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder 102337.2252(at)compuserve.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: av8r(at)hic.net
Date: Feb 20, 1996
Subject: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question
OK - I'll admit I'm dumb when it comes to elektrickle stuff!!! Connect wire "a" to tab "b" I can handle but as to why things do what they do ....Beats me! With the recent chat on VOR antennas, I have to ask a question of our "techies" on the list.... Question Background...I went ahead and bought the wingtip Nav "copper foil" antenna kit from Vans - I like the price, simplicity, no-drag, and everything I have heard tells me that It works great (except for maybe one "dead Zone" directly off the tip.) Anyway, I used a splitter to connect my two "nav" radios (no I'm not rich, I got a deal I couldn't refuse) and my glide slope receiver to the foil. Now...I hear that this may not work. Question....Do I really have to fork out for a separate G.S. antenna????? or just wait to try it out? or what other options ? Input will be much appreciated Best regards, Rob Lee -( now needing time to slap on the centari..)some primer on - spray booth built.RV6A 22626 (N517RV) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 1996
From: Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net>
Subject: Chicago Pilots, Fly an RV6A for 40$/hour wet
Would you like to fly a brand new RV6A with a 200HP fuel injected engine and constant speed prop that can cruise at 210 MPH ? Would you pay $40 per hour wet to do so ? Do you live in the Chicago area ? If you answered yes to these three questions, you may be interested in joining our soon to be created, non-profit, incorporated RV flying club. Hi, my name is Scott Johnson and I have been flying airplanes like Cessna 172's and Cherokees for 20 years. After 1000 hours in these airplanes, flying to me was beginning to be like driving a family sedan, not to exciting. But then I got an opportunity to fly an RV6A, and that excitement and fun was re-kindled. So I am starting a non-profit, incorporated RV flying club with the goal of providing low cost flying in a fun, safe, high performance airplane. Heres a very brief summary of how its going to work (details will be forthcoming): - Club will be non-profit and incorporated to limit personal liablity. - Airplane will be maintained only by licensed A&P mechanics employed by the club. - Club will be equity based and cost $6,000 per member, membership is set constant at 10 members. - Club member may sell their membership at anytime to another qualified pilot. - Club airplane will be insured by AVEMCO for the full value of the plane. - Club will be open to licensed pilots with 100 hours total time or more, and will require 5 hour checkout. - Monthly dues for the insurance, tie down, and 24 hour scheduling service is $50 month per member. - Plane will be based at Schaumburg or Dupage airport. - The bylaws and rules required to keep the club rolling smoothly and to preserve equitable access to the plane by all its members will be refined by its members before the club is incorporated and memberships taken. *** Note: the plane has not been purchased yet, we are looking at several RV6A's. If you know of one for sale, please let me know. - Since a number of the people interested in this club are also building RV's of their own (including myself), it is expected that over time memberships will change hands. This is great because it gives builders a chance to fly today, and non-builders the chance to fly a high performance airplane. Lest anyone think the hourly rates are to good to be true, or an equity size club of this size is not doable, I will share this with you. I have belonged to the Vagabond flying club in Chicago for many years. It also is a non-profit equity club. We have a Cessna 172 for 35 hour wet, a Warrior for 35 hour wet, and a Cherokee 140 for 30 hour wet. This club has been in existence for over 20 years. It has a membership size of 50 people so their equity position is about $1,200 per share, and their montly dues are around $50. It has been a great experience for me and one I intend to model for the new RV flying club. So if you are seriously interested in becoming part of the RV flying club, feel free to call me evenings and weekends. *** If 10 members cannot be found at the above share prices, consideration will be made to purchasing a lower cost RV with more members. (Example $40,000 RV diveded by 15 members = $2,666 per share, with hourly rates of $35, and monthly dues of $30). Scott Johnson Home: 708-980-3772 RVGASJ(at)MCS.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Zilik(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 21, 1996
>All my finished pieces have >been wrapped in plastic and hung in the corner of my garage from the >ceiling. Chet, do you live in Arizona? In the fron on Van's builders manual he states that you should no wrap any of the pieces in paper or plastic as this is just asking for corrosion to set it. Leave them out in the open and let them get dusty. Gary Zilik RV-6A 22993 (One rear tank baffle to go) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "R. Werner" <russ(at)maui.net>
Subject: Re: HS Skin questions
Date: Feb 11, 1996
Okay, got that one done! I followed nearly all the advice here! Left the plastic on (on the one I had not yet removed it from), used the spring return on the C-frame tool, and got my wife to run the hammer! Both skins are done and not a scratch (except the small one I put in trying to do this myself yesterday)! Now just need to prime the insides and start the rivet gun. Mahalo to all who helped get me over the hump on this one! With much Aloha, Russ russ(at)maui.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Bennett" <elanora(at)zip.com.au>
Date: Feb 21, 1996
Subject: Re: Questions
If the switch is breaking the current to an inductive load (something with coils and iron like a motor or contactor), the current tries to keep flowing as the switch contacts open. This causes a reverse voltage spike and arcing which may burn the contacts if the switch rating is marginal. The diode allows the spike to discharge into the bus before arcing can occur. If the switches are good quality and properly rated, don't bother with diodes. Peter Bennett Sydney Australia RV6 skinning fuselage >.......... I don't savvy the diode stuff............ > John D RV6 completed. > >I'm just starting to wire all the goodies into my 6A. Does anyone have input > >that might save me a headache or two? Also, is the 35amp alternator from > >Van's sufficient, and reliable? I'm not putting a whole lot of power-hungry > >avionics in. Am I correct in assuming that a 35a breaker is correct for this > >application? > > > >Also, what are the master and starter diodes for? They're in the Van's > >catalog, but I can't figure out what purpose they serve. Any input on the > >ISSPRO auto-type gauges? I notice the oil pressure gauge only goes to > >100psi. Is this enough? The oil temp gauge only goes down to 140deg, is > >that sufficient? > > > >Sorry if this sounds stupid, but my learning curve has just gone vertical > >here... > > > >-- Ed Bundy > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 1996
From: david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca
Subject: Re[2]: Aileron Counterbalance
If the aileron should become disconnected from the pushrod, that balance disappears and very shortly thereafter so does the aileron. A lateral control system with excessive play in the linkages or looseness in the cables could be enough to allow flutter if such a system were used (there are a few). Van's newer designs incorporate aerodynamic balances that may be mass balanced as well. I have not heard of rudder flutter on the RV series. Perhaps the change is related to the taller canopies he is using lately. If the rudder needed to be mass balanced, I am sure we all would have heard by now. David Fried DF-6 C-____ dfried(at)dehavilland.ca ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Aileron Counterbalance Date: 2/20/96 04:25 PM Perhaps the ailerons are already mass balanced by the opposite aileron since they are rigidly connected via the control system? And the rudder isn't mass balanced at all, is it? I am not suggesting there is anything wrong with the design, just curious as how and why it works as it does. Curt Reimer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Feb 21, 1996
Subject: Re: Chicago Pilots, Fly an RV6A for 40$/hour wet
>Would you like to fly a brand new RV6A with a 200HP fuel injected engine and >constant speed prop that can cruise at 210 MPH ? > SNIP > > Scott Johnson Home: 708-980-3772 RVGASJ(at)MCS.com > Scott: Check the regs. Don't think you can operate an aircraft with an experimental ticket in a "flying club". There are specifics about "shared expenses" etc. etc. Talk to you friendly FSDO. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Feb 21, 1996
Subject: Injected engines & other questions
Stephen: I have a 4 with 0-360 A1A c/s. I considered injected engines when I was building but opted for the 0-360 to keep things uncomplicated. I have not regretted the decision. Yes I do aerobatics. No I can't do sustained negative G stuff. But I hangar with a skybolt, decathlon, and other inverted equiped birds so when I feel the need to hang on the straps I do it in something else. (Plus it reminds me how much I like the RV) We also have another 4 that is equiped with inverted oil and injection. It is a converted 0-320 with the airflow performance injection kit. It's first flight is about 4 weeks away so I have seen the extra agravation of installation up close. The benefits of injection, besides inverted capability, are even fuel flow at all power settings. The downside is they tend to be hard to start when hot. There are purge valves that you can use that help the problem. You also will have to invent your own scoop/airbox etc. That can be a pain in the tail. But it is doable. Ellison's are basically throttle body injection systems. Van had one and had lots of problems getting it to start hot. Angle valve head 360's produce more H.P. through better flow design. They are big buck engines. Take more cowl work and the 200 horses are pushing on deminished returns. In other words, there not that much faster than the 180's. Also, the big engines are beating up the tail control surfaces faster. With 180 hours on mine I have found cracks in the elevator and rudder. I am not alone. I'm working on a fix. (New control surfaces built differently) As far as fuel flow, I plan on 9 gph average. Lower at altitude, But not much. I cruise at 175 Knots average true airspeed at 8000 ft. throttle open 2400 rpm. As far as rear mounted accesories, No big deal. Make a knock out for the governor and get on with it. Good luck cramming the inverted oil system in. It's tight. Hope this answers some of your questions. Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 1996
From: Bob Kutschke <73244.1501(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Metal vs. wood jigs
I'm getting close to ordering the fuselage kit from Van's and am beginning to wonder about jig construction. Is the wood jig decribed in the plans sufficient enough to build a plane that doesn't fly sideways? I have gotten some info from Stephen Frey on the metal jigs he sells/rents, but $1000+ seems like an awful lot. Unless of course a metal jig is so much better than a wood jig. Does anyone have any experience with the Frey metal jig? Or better yet, does anyone have one they would like to sell? If using a wood jig, are there any details not in the plans that might save me any headaches? What is the best type of lumber for construction? BTW: This is my first visit to the RV-List. My name is Bob Kutschke. I am currently building an RV-6A (wings almost done). I live in Birmingham, AL, so if anyone is in the area with an RV project, I'd love a chance to take a peek. Bob Kutschke 73244.1501(at)compuserve.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 1996
From: Ron Caldwell <74504.1365(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: RV6 Instrument Panels
Has anyone used removable sub-panels? If so, did you make your own or purchase? Any problems to install? With a sliding canopy, this option would seem to provide better access to instruments? Do you agree? Appreciate any help or info. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
Subject: Re: rudder balance
Date: Feb 21, 1996
I think the RV-8 now has a balanced rudder. I think in the RVator article on the 8 Van said he did it due to the higher speeds expected from the -8 and its higher power. The -4's and 6's rudders are balanced by the blob sitting behind the stick with their feet on the rudders. Herman > > Perhaps the ailerons are already mass balanced by the opposite aileron since > they are rigidly connected via the control system? > > And the rudder isn't mass balanced at all, is it? > > I am not suggesting there is anything wrong with the design, just curious > as how and why it works as it does. > > Curt Reimer > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: 50w halogen light
>Ed, I'm going to use the 12V, 50-60 watt halogen lights also. They do come >in a 60 watt variety with a plastic cover over the lense. We use them a >lot in the coal mines of S. Illinois and they are very vibration resistant, >durable and economical. I don't know what the service life is but it's a >long time under continuous use. I plan on two in each wing tip behind some >form of plexi wingtip covers similar to the ones Vans sells for installing >nav lights. I don't think heating is a problem but I'm going to do some >burn tests in a closed box before I go cutting the front leading edge out >of my wing tips. > >Chet Razer >crazer(at)midwest.net Chet: I went the wing tip landing light route. Went the poor man's route. I bought the lenses only from a RV-4 builder in Bakersfield and made the rest. They don't look quite as good as the kits (RMD ?) but they were cheap. My next set will go into the leading edge because: I think I can make a lighter installation, if I break a lens I can fabricate one myself easily and cheaply and I think the bulb would stay considerably cooler since it wouldn't be confined in the tip but suspended in the wide open spaces of the wing. I'm also considering putting my tips on with (ugh) pop rivets as I think this would result in a cost and weight savings. I sure like the looks of the stainless screws attaching the tips on my 6, though. The nutplate and screw weight sure add up, though. Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 21, 1996
Subject: Re: Flap Hinge Pins
>One last note, when the pin is installed in either hinge half it slid in >with NO resistance, when the halves are mated and pinned is when the >binding occurres. > > It's a very good idea to have the mating hinge half and pin installed before you do any drilling or riveting. This helps keep things straight. -- Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 1996
From: Rich Klee <Rich_Klee(at)ccm.fm.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Landing lights
On 2/20 somebody wrote: You might say I saw the light. The aircraft lamps are white hot and the car lamps are more yellow. They have a higher "color temperature". It happened that at the time I worked with medical lights and radiometers (light meters) and I had become quite an expert on quartz halogen lamp technology. The reality is that due to the physics of it, a 100 Watt airplane lamp is going to be much brighter and have a much shorter life than a 35 or 50 watt car lamp. End of story. I ended up using the 100 Watt aircraft ($12 to $20 each) lamp and made my plexiglass leading edge easily removable for lamp replacement. Also, I intend to make a flasher ($15 worth of Radio Shack parts) for my landing light. What a flasher does, aside from making the light more noticeable for collision avoidance, is to reduce the average temperature of the lamp which will greatly increase the life expectancy. Because the lamp is flashing, the filament remains warm and the therefore the thermal shock of turning it on/off is not a factor. Well, the $15 worth of Radio Shack parts is what got me going 2 years ago on my flasher. I am sure my fuselage would be on gear by now (and not in the "looks like a boat to me, bubba" stage, if I didn't have that "brilliant" thought. Anyway, if you are interested in my flasher send E-mail to the below address. And I incorporated a burn-out bulb detect circuit LED in my flasher. rich - skinning 6a fuse. ======================================================================= Rich Klee 4564 Chicago Ave. rich_klee(at)ccm.fm.intel.com Fair Oaks, CA 95628 (916) 863-1927 (will accept faxes) ======================================================================= ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 1996
From: Curtis L Smith <Curtis_L_Smith(at)ccm.ch.intel.com>
Subject: Flap Hinge Pins
Text item: >One last note, when the pin is installed in either hinge half it slid in >with NO resistance, when the halves are mated and pinned is when the >binding occurres. > > It's a very good idea to have the mating hinge half and pin installed before you do any drilling or riveting. This helps keep things straight. -- Ed Bundy Text item: External Message Header Please remove Curtis L Smith from your RV distribution lists. Thank you, Curtis The following mail header is for administrative use and may be ignored unless there are problems. ***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***. Subject: Re: RV-List: Flap Hinge Pins Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 11:48:02 -0500 From: aol.com!EBundy2620(at)matronics.com 0 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 1996
From: crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer)
Subject: Finished pieces
>From: aol.com!Zilik(at)matronics.com >Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 02:23:09 -0500 >Apparently-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com >Precedence: junk >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > >>All my finished pieces have >>been wrapped in plastic and hung in the corner of my garage from the >>ceiling. > >Chet, do you live in Arizona? In the fron on Van's builders manual he states >that you should no wrap any of the pieces in paper or plastic as this is just >asking for corrosion to set it. Leave them out in the open and let them get >dusty. > >Gary Zilik RV-6A 22993 (One rear tank baffle to go) Gary, thanks for the reality check, took all pieces out of plastic and rehung them. Chet Razer crazer(at)midwest.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 1996
From: crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer)
Subject: Re: tools
Charles, I've bought all of my tools from cleavland Aircraft Tools, E-mail: CAT3Tools(at)aol.com or from Avery, Never had a bit of problems with any. The best tool I bought was the videos made by the Orndorffs. Chet Razer crazer(at)midwest.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 1996
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Metal vs. wood jigs
Here's some "real world" data on fuselage jigs: I borrowed a jig that a local builder made out of standard and better lumber. The 2x6s started out twisted but the crosspieces were shimmed to make them level. The jig had been sitting out under his carport for 6 months before I got it, and had warped even more. I re-leveled the legs and glued the jig to the floor, then unscrewed and re-shimmed all of the upright crosspieces and also relocated some that weren't quite in the right place. I also had to plane the tops of some of the 2x4s flat. Once I put the longerons on and could get a really straight sight and level on them I re-shimmed a few spots just a bit. The Frey jig will save you a lot of time fussing and leveling things, but the moral of the story is you can make anything work. My jig had some serious problems but still I made it work and I'm 100% confident that everything is in the right place and straight and level. Even if I had the straightest jig in the world I still wouldn't trust it completely and would check to make sure I don't have to shim or relocate anything. Randall Henderson RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 1996
From: n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen)
Subject: RV flying club
Hi Scott, While I am building my RV-4 which is taking a lot longer than expected, I have been a member of the Storey Flying Club. The "Storey Special" is a single place, open cockpit experimental airplane built in 1954. The Storey Flying Club has been in existance since about 1958, almost 40 years. The way the club works is that we have a non-profit corporation and each member is part owner and we all share hangar and maintenance expenses. The point is; it must be legal. Peter. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 1996
From: "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM>
Subject: Re: Flap Hinge Pins
> It's a very good idea to have the mating hinge half and pin > installed before you do any drilling or riveting. This helps keep > things straight. Allow me to append that if you really want to try to keep the hinge straight while you install it, keep both halves connected, and open it 90 degrees. -- "Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!" -- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs "Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 21, 1996
Subject: Re: Questions, electrical
>I'm just starting to wire all the goodies into my 6A. Does anyone have input >that might save me a headache or two? Also, is the 35amp alternator from >Van's sufficient, and reliable? I'm not putting a whole lot of power-hungry >avionics in. Am I correct in assuming that a 35a breaker is correct for this >application? The alternator buss feed breaker should be rated at the max alternator current or less. If you have a 35 Amp alternator, a 35 Amp breaker is OK. >Also, what are the master and starter diodes for? They're in the Van's >catalog, but I can't figure out what purpose they serve. As pointed out in other email on the RVlist, these diodes surpress the switch contact arc when the starter or main contactor relay is opened. Diode polarity must be observered: the white band on the diode (cathode) should be connected to the most positive side. > Any input on the >ISSPRO auto-type gauges? I notice the oil pressure gauge only goes to >100psi. Is this enough? The oil temp gauge only goes down to 140deg, is >that sufficient? Anything over 100 psi on the O-320 is in the redline. Normal pressure should be 75 psi. If anyone is interested, I have a complete schematic of the electrical system in my IFR equiped RV-6A available to anyone sending me a self addressed stamped envelope. My adddress is: Fred Stucklen 148 Winkler Rd E. Windsor, Ct 06088 I would also suggest that you review Tony Bingilis's articles in Sport Aviation, along with the other sources mentioned in other RVlist email. These are excellent sources for the knowlege you need to complete a safe electrical installation. Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 1996
From: William French <wfrench(at)freenet.npiec.on.ca>
Subject: Propeller performance
Hi, folks. I'm sending this at the request of a fellow RV-6 builder who has not seen the light as far as computers go. He is interested in any performance evaluations information regarding fixed-pitched propellers suitable for a 180 HP o-360 Lycoming for the RV-6. He has seen favorable reports on the 3 blade Catto prop and is wondering if anybody has come across any unfavorable info. There are so many others that it would be quite easy to pick an unsuitable prop. He is particularily interested in long range economical cruise at the expense of all out climb capability. We would like to hear from anyone with good or bad experiences regarding their prop selection and usage. The aim of this exercise is to reduce the cost and weight of a constant speed prop and governor if the performance of a fixed pitch propeller is not that much different in cruise. Much thanks in advance and maybe with the savings of a fixed pitch propeller we can then get him into the computer world. :-) Bill French wfrench(at)freenet.npiec.on.ca Decathlon C-GJXT ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 1996
From: csanchez(at)BayNetworks.com (Cheryl Sanchez)
Subject: GPS choices
Here's a new subject. What have you chosen for GPS receivers? I'm trying to figure out which one to put in my 6A. Thanks. Cheryl Sanchez csanchez(at)world.std.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
Date: Feb 21, 1996
Subject: Re: Metal vs. wood jigs
>I'm getting close to ordering the fuselage kit from Van's and am beginning to >wonder about jig construction. Is the wood jig decribed in the plans sufficient >enough to build a plane that doesn't fly sideways? > >I have gotten some info from Stephen Frey on the metal jigs he sells/rents, but >$1000+ seems like an awful lot. Unless of course a metal jig is so much better >than a wood jig. Does anyone have any experience with the Frey metal jig? Or >better yet, does anyone have one they would like to sell? > >If using a wood jig, are there any details not in the plans that might save me >any headaches? What is the best type of lumber for construction? > >BTW: This is my first visit to the RV-List. My name is Bob Kutschke. I am >currently building an RV-6A (wings almost done). I live in Birmingham, AL, so >if anyone is in the area with an RV project, I'd love a chance to take a peek. > >Bob Kutschke >73244.1501(at)compuserve.com > >\ Bob, I am using a jig which is built of 2x8 glue lam material. Three others have used the jig, two are flying (straight). The glue lam material is very straight and stong with no tendency to warp like soild wood. The only modification I made was to raise it by 8" and I am glad i did. During the corse of construction you get inside and out A LOT. Having the extra height is a help. I have not seen the metal jigs but the builder of the jig I have saw one recently and commented that they would be nice IF the cost could be spread around a few builders. If you can, downlosd the archive file, use BF's increadible search driver and scan what has been said about jigs. We had a recent conversation recently ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892 2300 Oakmont Way #205 Fax: 541-342-5492 Eugene, Oregon 97401 email: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Injected engines & other questions
>The benefits of injection, besides inverted capability, are even fuel flow >at all power settings. The downside is they tend to be hard to start when >hot. There are purge valves that you can use that help the problem. You >also will have to invent your own scoop/airbox etc. That can be a pain in >the tail. But it is doable. > >Ellison's are basically throttle body injection systems. Van had one and >had lots of problems getting it to start hot. > >Angle valve head 360's produce more H.P. through better flow design. They are >big buck engines. Take more cowl work and the 200 horses are pushing on >deminished returns. In other words, there not that much faster than the 180's. > >Also, the big engines are beating up the tail control surfaces faster. With 180 >hours on mine I have found cracks in the elevator and rudder. I am not alone. > >I'm working on a fix. (New control surfaces built differently) >Regards: >Rusty Gossard >N47RG RV-4 Flying Rusty: I have some comments to add and a question for you. Another downside to FI is the initial cost and the cost to overhaul. Also, if an injector plugs, you could over-lean (read "cook") a cylinder. I think a 4 probe EGT & CHT gauge would be a good idea for a FI engine. We put an Ellison on the Glasair we built. I had high hopes for this carb and the workmanship was first rate. It would change mixture if you looked at it wrong. We tried a lot of different ideas: re-designed air box, put in flow dividers, etc. and just couldn't seem to keep it up an running. Could you fill me in on the cowl mods needed to fit an angle valve 0360 in the RV-6? A friend (not on the net) is building a RV-6 and he bought a complete IO-360, 200 hp for $ 5,000.00. Low time but a bent crank. I told him I'd try to find something out about this installation and/or put him in contact with someone who has done the installation. What kind of fixes are you going to incorporate on your new control surfaces? Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Metal vs. wood jigs
>I'm getting close to ordering the fuselage kit from Van's and am beginning to >wonder about jig construction. Is the wood jig decribed in the plans sufficient >enough to build a plane that doesn't fly sideways? > >I have gotten some info from Stephen Frey on the metal jigs he sells/rents, but >$1000+ seems like an awful lot. Unless of course a metal jig is so much better >than a wood jig. Does anyone have any experience with the Frey metal jig? Or >better yet, does anyone have one they would like to sell? > >If using a wood jig, are there any details not in the plans that might save me >any headaches? What is the best type of lumber for construction? > >BTW: This is my first visit to the RV-List. My name is Bob Kutschke. I am >currently building an RV-6A (wings almost done). I live in Birmingham, AL, so >if anyone is in the area with an RV project, I'd love a chance to take a peek. > >Bob Kutschke >73244.1501(at)compuserve.com Bob: I'm sure that the $ 1000 jig is very nice, but you don't need a fancy jig to build a straight airplane. More important than making an absolutely straight jig is to have one that is rigid and holds it's shape. Glued and screwed lumber, firmly attached to the floor, works for many builders. I just saw a neat jig the other day that a Colorado builder made out of plywood laminates. He made laminated 2x4's and 2x6's by ripping the plywood to the appropriate diminsions and glueing and screwing them together. I think after they were glued, he even ran them through a plane. He has several people that want to buy it, one guy from Arkansas. In other words, you might be able to recover most of your costs of a wood jig if it is well made. I would think it might be harder to do this with a $ 1,000 jig. Welcome to the RV-list. Bob Skinner RV-6 & 6-A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Metal vs. wood jigs
>I'm getting close to ordering the fuselage kit from Van's and am beginning to >wonder about jig construction. Is the wood jig decribed in the plans sufficient >enough to build a plane that doesn't fly sideways? > >I have gotten some info from Stephen Frey on the metal jigs he sells/rents, but >$1000+ seems like an awful lot. Unless of course a metal jig is so much better >than a wood jig. Does anyone have any experience with the Frey metal jig? Or >better yet, does anyone have one they would like to sell? > >If using a wood jig, are there any details not in the plans that might save me >any headaches? What is the best type of lumber for construction? > >BTW: This is my first visit to the RV-List. My name is Bob Kutschke. I am >currently building an RV-6A (wings almost done). I live in Birmingham, AL, so >if anyone is in the area with an RV project, I'd love a chance to take a peek. > >Bob Kutschke >73244.1501(at)compuserve.com > Bob, Wood is fine, you can have my jig for nothing so long as you pay the freight Leo Davies Sydney Australia> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 1996
From: "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov>
Subject: GPS Choices
Reply to: GPS Choices Cheryl: (1) How much do you want to spend? They range $200 - $6,000! (2) IFR STC'd. yes/no (3) Moving map. yes/no (4) Coupled to an autopilot. yes/ no (5) Hand held or panel mount? Retangular or round hole? (6) Kind of readout? LCD, CCD or CRT (how old are your eyes?) (7) How important are user defined waypoints? i.e do you fly mostly to FAA points or to special uncharted places. (8) Dbase update method? By factory, pc down-load, or chip/card? The technology is constantly changing and all of the aviation magazines have in-depth GPS instrument reviews. While the collective wisdom of this list is incredibly valuable - a little magazine research would revel the incredible array of options that will have to ultimately boil down to your individual, personnal choice. Elon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 1996
From: "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov>
Subject: Free jig
REGARDING Free jig Thanks for the offer Leo, but I'm alergic to the smell of eucalyptus. Elon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OrndorffG(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 21, 1996
There has been a total of three RV6's built on my fuselage jig.I also have a RV4 jig that has had seven RV4's built on it and they all came out just find. Buy your wood yearly to let it dry you a wood jig will do just fine.....George Orndorff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 1996
From: Don Mack <donmack(at)interaccess.com>
Subject: Re: Metal vs. wood jigs
Frey will also sell used jigs that were returned from rental for a few hundred dollars less. They are checked and cleaned up, just don't look as nice as the original. I also think you could sell the jig without much difficulty. don mack rv-6a finishing second wing, ready to order fuse and jig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KUKULSKIM(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 21, 1996
Subject: Re: Metal vs. wood jigs
You wrote: >I have gotten some info from Stephen Frey on the metal jigs he >sells/rents, but >$1000+ seems like an awful lot. $1000 for a JIG? There goes that transponder you wanted to buy. Make your own jig from wood or steel/aluminum channels or square tubing from your local metal supply (or a combo of both materials - metal for the long beams and wood for the cross pieces. Lots of ideas recently on the list regarding laminated beams or homemade beams from laminating strips of plywood. Take your choice of any of these that you are comfortable with. The key is not the jig. It is snapping good centerlines, plumb lines, leveling ad nauseum, and always rechecking. In my opinion. Mike Kukulski (kukulskim(at)aol.com) RV-4 N96MK (Installing controls in fusleage) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 1996
From: Bob Kutschke <73244.1501(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Metal vs. Wood jig
> Date: 2/21/96 3:31 PM > From: Michael Pilla INTERNET:pilla(at)espinc.espinc.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Metal vs. wood jigs > > I purchased an aluminum jig from DJB Engineering, Bethlehem, PA. (I have the > exact info, tel numbers, ..., at home, if you are interested.) Mike, I would like to get that number from you if you have it handy. They may be a more affordable choice for a metal jig. Did their kit consist of predrilled/prealigned parts, or was it just the basic aluminum parts that you had to measure cut and drill? Thanks, Bob Kutschke RV6A (wings) 73244.1501(at)compuserve.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 1996
From: n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen)
Subject: Glide slope antenna
This is for Rob Lee, A little known fact about glide slope receivers is that they work on about 330 Mhz which is an entirely different frequency than your localizer which is approx 110 Mhz. The reason most people are not aware that a GS receiver uses different frequency is that generally you only select the LOC frequency and the corresponding glide slope frequency is "paired" to that. Since wavelength is inversively proportional to frequency, and, of course, wavelength is directly related to antenna length, logic would imply that a shorter antenna would be used for GS. However, I called Pacific Coast Avionics and they told me that most general aviation airplanes use the SAMEe nav antenna for gs and vor/loc. I can only assume the antenna must be a compromise for glideslope. Of course, one does not need a lot of range for loc and gs since one is close to the airport. Pacific Coast Avionics sell a "splitter" diplexer which couple two nav AND a gs receiver(s), all to the same nav antenna. I am sure you know that you should never use any bnc T connectors since that will be an impedance mismatch and you will not get maximum signal transfer. Therefore, the question seems to be: Will the particular nav antenna from Van's also work for GS? I would guess that it would but you should probably contact Tom at Van's and verify that they have actually used and tested the antenna for glideslope. Van's e-mail address is: 76455.1602(at)compuserve.com Peter. n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com. _______________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 1996
From: bill garrett <bgarrett(at)fast.net>
Subject: rv-accident-summary
>From: "Rolf Hankers" <abraham.iff.ing.tu-bs.de!ROLF(at)matronics.com> >hey, >I am trying to get infos about the NTSB-accident-summaries. Does >someone know how it is possible to get these summaries, or even >better can someone mail the RV-related summaries to me? >Thank you very much. >Rolf Hankers >flying RV-4 >ROLF(at)abraham.iff.ing.tu-bs.de To anyone who is interested- You can get rather detailed NSTB accident summaries along with lots of other information at http://www.avweb.com When you first visit the site they ask you to register (e-mail address, etc. and choose a name and password) but then anytime you visit you can access all the information there. Additionally, every week they e-mail you a short digest of the latest news in aviation. No pressure, no hype about anything after registering from what I've seen. Bill /```|`\ /| _ _ _ _ / | \ || ,* | ````~~.._ _ / | \ || _ _,*_ _ _|_ _ _ _ _ / ```~~~..._/ | \ _||_.~`````` Bill Garrett <::::::::> \ <_ _| RV-6A Pottstown, PA N153BG | / || \ ..~~~~~~~......_ _ _ _ _.|.~~`` || `~._ '.....................> _ _...~~~~````` || `//`````````````\\`````````` \| // \\ _//_ _\\_ ( _`: ( _`: ````` ````` Husband and Father Mathematics Teacher Airplane Builder - working on the wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: GPS choices
> Here's a new subject. What have you chosen for GPS receivers? >I'm trying to figure out which one to put in my 6A. > > Thanks. > >Cheryl Sanchez >csanchez(at)world.std.com Cheryl: I'm probably going to use the Bendix/King GPS-Com with the liquid crystal display. I think the LCD display shows up better under the bubble canopy than LED or gas discharge and I think this installation would save a little weight and installation complexity. The light producing displays that I have in my 6 wash out in bright sunlight. (TKM comm, ARNAV R-50). Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Questions
Peter, Is the diode just protecting the switch or does the spike worry other things connected to the bus? Leo >If the switch is breaking the current to an inductive load (something >with coils and iron like a motor or contactor), the current tries to keep flowing >as the switch contacts open. This causes a reverse voltage spike and arcing >which may burn the contacts if the switch rating is marginal. The diode > allows the spike to discharge into the bus before arcing can occur. >If the switches are good quality and properly rated, don't bother >with diodes. >Peter Bennett >Sydney Australia >RV6 skinning fuselage > >>.......... I don't savvy the diode stuff............ >> John D RV6 completed. > >> >I'm just starting to wire all the goodies into my 6A. Does anyone have input >> >that might save me a headache or two? Also, is the 35amp alternator from >> >Van's sufficient, and reliable? I'm not putting a whole lot of power-hungry >> >avionics in. Am I correct in assuming that a 35a breaker is correct for this >> >application? >> > >> >Also, what are the master and starter diodes for? They're in the Van's >> >catalog, but I can't figure out what purpose they serve. Any input on the >> >ISSPRO auto-type gauges? I notice the oil pressure gauge only goes to >> >100psi. Is this enough? The oil temp gauge only goes down to 140deg, is >> >that sufficient? >> > >> >Sorry if this sounds stupid, but my learning curve has just gone vertical >> >here... >> > >> >-- Ed Bundy >> > >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: Jim Ayers <102337.2252(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: GPS choices
>Cheryl Sanchez suggested; > Here's a new subject. What have you chosen for GPS receivers? >I'm trying to figure out which one to put in my 6A. I bought a Garmin 95XL handheld to use in my RV-3. I mainly bought it over the Garmin 90 because it has a bigger moving map display. However, the height of the displays are about the same, so the viewing scale is about the same to view the destination. This turned out to not be the best choice in my case, because I can't find a place to mount the unit. An extension cable is provided so the antenna can be removed (BNC connector) from the receiver and stuck (suction cup connector bracket) to the inside of the canopy. Pretty clever, those people. BTW, the 95XL came with a mounting bracket and cable to allow the unit to be tied into the aircraft electrical system for power. The receiver just clips into the mount, with positive retainers, with the battery pack installed, or the battery pack removed. Jim Ayers LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder 102337.2252(at)compuserve.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen)
Subject: Reverse diodes
Hi, Regarding flyback diodes: In my opinion, any inductor like a relay coil or solinoid should have a reverse biased diode across it. When a magnetic field collapses due to an interruption of current it causes a very large inductive voltage spike. The formula is V = L di/dt which means that the voltage generated is directly proportional to the product of the inductance and the rate of change of the current. When the current goes from some finite large value to zero, the rate of change can be very high. The voltage produced can be many hundreds of volts. (It is just like pulling the plug on your electric heater and getting a spark from the socket) except it occurs inside the switch. The large negative voltage spike could certainly potentially damage any electronic equipment which may happen to be on although most well designed modern avionics can withstand such a spike without damage. However, the spike also causes electric noise. It is a "spark gap transmitter". 23 years ago when I worked on the AWACS prototype, we had a case where a piece of digitally controlled communication equipment would change state due to a transmitter relay which did not have a diode across the relay coil. That was caused by the glitch from the inductive spike when the relay deenergized. The lack of a 10 cent diode kept a 100 million dollar airplane grounded for a while. Therefore, my recommendation is to ALWAYS use a diode across collapsing inductive loads. Peter Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com RV4 builder. ____________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen)
Subject: GS antenna
Hi again Rob Lee, After further consideration while roller-skating with my wife (very boring), I think your best bet would be to make a V shaped foil antenna just like your nav antenna but only 1/3 as big and use it for your GS receiver directly. That would probably be cheaper than getting another splitter and also should work better. Peter n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com _________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 22, 1996
Subject: Re: RV6 Instrument Panels
>Has anyone used removable sub-panels? If so, did you make your own or >purchase? Any problems to install? With a sliding canopy, this option would >seem to provide better access to instruments? Do you agree? Appreciate any >help >or info. > > If I ever do it over again, I would definately make the panel removeable, even in the tilt up canopy version..... Fred Stucklen RV-6A (Tiltup) N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: Graham Taylor <gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Metal vs. wood jigs
Pretty well all of us who have got to the fuselage stage have used a wooden jig. The planes seem to be straight, and our wallets still have that $1000. Well, they don't really, it's been spent on other stuff :-) Graham Taylor gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au 119 Darley Circle, Bullcreek, WA 6149, AUSTRALIA Phone (619) 332 4094 Fax (619) 310 6048 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 22, 1996
>the 55 watt halogen and felt that it was somewhat marginal, so will probably >settle on the 100 or 130 watt H3 ($6.00 and $ 7.00 respectively from JC >Whitney.) I'll let you know how long the 55 watt (and later, the 100 watt) >bulbs last. It'll be interesting to see if the light housing can stand >100-130 watts. Bob Skinner RV-6 > Thanks, I'd be real interested in finding a suitable light that will last more than a few flights. Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 22, 1996
Subject: Re: 50w halogen light
>I buy 12v 50w halogen lights with an integral glass cover and reflector for >~$14 >at Ace Hardware. They are advertised as having a 5000 hr life. They are >about >2 inchs in diameter, and are available as a spot or wide beam. >If you still have your Dec. '95 Sport Aviation, You can just make out the two >lights on the front of the cowl. (The glass curve, although slight, just >matches the cowl. (Sometimes you just get lucky.)) How has the longevity been? -- Ed ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 22, 1996
Subject: Re: GPS choices
> Here's a new subject. What have you chosen for GPS receivers? >I'm trying to figure out which one to put in my 6A. > > I put in the IIMorrow FlyBuddy with the full North America Data base that includes VOR's, NDB's, Intersections as well as all the airport information. I use it as a navigational backup to the other IFR equipment and find it to be a real confidence builder to the nav information while flying IFR. IMO, GPS technology is changing too rapidly to go out and buy a full IFR certified unit. For VFR, buy the cheapest unit that fills the requirements of your everday flying. By the way, I have choosen my radios such that they ALL have LCD displays. These are backlighted for night time operations as well as daylight. They are 100% visable in direct sunlight....... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 22, 1996
Subject: Re: GS antenna
>After further consideration while roller-skating with my wife (very >boring), I think your best bet would be to make a V shaped foil antenna >just like your nav antenna but only 1/3 as big and use it for your GS >receiver directly. That would probably be cheaper than getting another >splitter and also should work better. > > Where would you mount it? Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Jigs, Met. vs wood
Is the wood jig decribed in the plans sufficient >enough to build a plane that doesn't fly sideways? >I have gotten some info from Stephen Frey on the metal jigs he sells/rents, but >$1000+ seems like an awful lot. Unless of course a metal jig is so much better >than a wood jig. Does anyone have any experience with the Frey metal jig? Or >better yet, does anyone have one they would like to sell? >If using a wood jig, are there any details not in the plans that might save me >any headaches? What is the best type of lumber for construction? >BTW: This is my first visit to the RV-List. My name is Bob Kutschke. I am >currently building an RV-6A (wings almost done). I live in Birmingham, AL, so >if anyone is in the area with an RV project, I'd love a chance to take a peek. >Bob Kutschke >73244.1501(at)compuserve.com Bob, welcome to the group. Vans RVator had an article a few years back (3 or 4) about the unneccessary expense of metal etc jigs. Was of the opinion that you could use tree limbs if you shimmed them true. It is a case of money vs desire of perfection and effort to true. I used treated 4x4 and 2x4. If the wx changed appreciably, I checked the trueness. I had a grand total of $56.00 in the fus. jig. Was going to use it for fence post when completed, but gave it to someone in the EAA chapter. The plane flies normal. Or at least, it flies the way I believe it was intended to do. My flying may not place it in the normal category. I found that some 1/2 inch plywood cut into triangles from 12 in sqs. and used at corners etc made the rig very rigid. Used drywall(speedy) screws to assemble. I must admit, I was trying to build my plane on the cheap. Wasn't interested in outfitting a machine shop, just build a plane. Don't even have a band saw. Did it with hack saw or in some cases a hand held jig saw. So laugh at me. I wanted my money in instruments, engine etc., not lying around in the workshop. John D RV6 N61764 completed. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Antique Motors
I was hoping that someone else would bring this up so that I wouldn't have to show my stupididity. Is an 'archive search engine' an old motor in an old civilian air patrol plane that is used for search and rescue? Some how I think not. I have already read 'Internet for Dummies' and am now looking for a more basic instruction book, since virtually nothing in it is working on my Netscape. Anyone have any suggestions for what a beginner could study to help get up to speed on this stuff? My attempt at the archives that have been discussed here got me to something in Ark. that I could click on and get nothing. There was no way to type in anything, just click on what was there and get more of nothing. BTW, did the annual check list that George had get posted when the list and my confuser were down? John D RV6 N61764 completed. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 22, 1996
Subject: Re: Metal vs. wood jigs
>I have gotten some info from Stephen Frey on the metal jigs he sells/rents, >but >$1000+ seems like an awful lot. Unless of course a metal jig is so much >better >than a wood jig. Does anyone have any experience with the Frey metal jig? Or >better yet, does anyone have one they would like to sell? > >If using a wood jig, are there any details not in the plans that might save >me >any headaches? What is the best type of lumber for construction? I don't have any experience with metal jigs. These airplanes were designed to be built in simple (read: cheap) wooden jigs. Anyone with the skills to build an RV posess far more than the necessary talent to build the jig. I know it seems that the fuselage is a BIG undertaking and full of unforseeable negative surprises (well, that part's true... ) and should be built to exacting tolerances. There is a wood jig in the area that has had 3 RV's built on it and it is accurate to approx 3/32" on the supports. Any measurable innaccuracies on a wood jig can be shimmed up, any unmeasureable ones don't matter. When I needed a jig, all the local ones were in use, so I built my own. I took me a whopping 6hrs, and buying everything new, cost $50. Also, there are lots of times that you'll want to attach a "quick and dirty" temporary support for one thing or another. A scrap piece of wood and a couple nails and you're in business. I wouldn't want to drag out a welder for it... My advice is to build a wood jig and spend the other $950 on gas. -- Ed Bundy (wiring panel - thanks to all for your advice!) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 22, 1996
Subject: Re: GPS choices
> Here's a new subject. What have you chosen for GPS receivers? >I'm trying to figure out which one to put in my 6A. I'm really partial to the Magellan Skyblazer XL. It has all the bells and whistles, and a very nice hi-res moving map. It retails for about $699. However, I won't need one for about 6 months, and by then the heads-up-display gps with coupled 3 axis autopilot will probably be available for $200. So I'll wait... :) -- Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Feb 22, 1996
Subject: Re: Metal vs. wood jigs
>You wrote: > >>I have gotten some info from Stephen Frey on the metal jigs he >>sells/rents, but >>$1000+ seems like an awful lot. SNIP... I used a Frey jig on my 4. I had a wood hand me down that had built 4 other 4's but decided to use the Frey in an attempt to use the best tool available for the job at hand. Now before everybody gets there water hot, let me say that there are plenty of fine airplanes built on wood, but; I wanted to do this as good as possible and I thought that Frey's jig would be the best way to accomplish my objective keeping my workload down. I rented the jig. It makes holding the firewall square easier. I liked the "bird cage" that traps 404 to 407. You can fine adjust the angle on 404 easily. I could go on and on. It just makes your job easier to do right. Yes It costs more than lumber, but I would do it again. It also speeds up the process. I was out of the jig in under 6 weeks. For those that don't know Frey, he was an engineer for Grumman. Knows jigs in the production world. I thought he was a lot of help. Bottom line.... I was out to do the best job I could do and got whatever tools I needed to accomplish my goal. It's not what you do it on, it's how well you do it on what you do it on. I would rent the jig again. Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: Mitchell Faatz <mitch(at)netmanage.com>
Subject: Re: GPS choices
PwRCO~s"A~`xv&z.hE;P"7`$"90KI\asWliWt7"xGPLa/:\\o(at)MYS5h.uOMyoh.lSrBB]%_8rJ[9}U ~O/w3:S\<\&p)Nt0s|KA5s|kuD/K.j&?#'*P8W/lP28(Lo[j^##fU9};tipZvOqv] I'm looking into building an RV-6A, and since I haven't gotten a ride in one yet I'm concerned about it's IFR and cross country comfort level. An RV-4 pilot I talked to said the controls are so "tight" and the wings so stiff, he couldn't see doing either IFR or cross countries in it. With the stiff wings every little bit of turbulence is felt and with the tight controls you are always active on the stick according to him. How has your experience been? It looks like a hellova plane otherwise! Thanks - Mitch aol.com!WStucklen(at)matronics.com wrote: > Here's a new subject. What have you chosen for GPS receivers? >I'm trying to figure out which one to put in my 6A. > > I put in the IIMorrow FlyBuddy with the full North America Data base that includes VOR's, NDB's, Intersections as well as all the airport information. I use it as a navigational backup to the other IFR equipment and find it to be a real confidence builder to the nav information while flying IFR. IMO, GPS technology is changing too rapidly to go out and buy a full IFR certified unit. For VFR, buy the cheapest unit that fills the requirements of your everday flying. By the way, I have choosen my radios such that they ALL have LCD displays. These are backlighted for night time operations as well as daylight. They are 100% visable in direct sunlight....... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com -----------------End of Original Message----------------- O/ Cut here -------------------Q\-------------------------------------- Mitchell Faatz Software Engineer mitch(at)netmanage.com NetManage Inc. Team Lead - Internet (408) 973-7171 Home of Chameleon TCPIP Applications for Windows MIME Enclosures OK ----------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com>
Subject: Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question
On Tue, 20 Feb 1996 av8r(at)hic.net wrote: > Do I really have to fork out for a separate G.S. antenna????? Yes, you do. VOR's and Localizers are VHF, The Glideslope signal is UHF. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuel Injection vs. Normal Aspiration
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: Jack Abell <abell(at)rand.org>
I have listened with great interest to anecdotal information about the vagaries of fuel injection systems. I've looked at literature on the Ellison and Airflow Performance systems but don't feel I have enough information to make a sensible choice. As I understand it, fuel injection provides a modest increase in effective horsepower at mid-range power settings, but not at max power. It is virtually immune to icing and will sustain fuel-air flow inverted. I have also heard that fuel injected engines are more difficult to start and injection systems can be troublesome and difficult to troubleshoot. My aerobatics will be limited to positive-G maneuvers. I will fly IFR but not in icing conditions. Just two days ago I ordered my fuselage and finishing kits, an O-360-A1A, and c/s prop. I indicated on my order an Ellison installation. I'm inclined to change it, but I'm really on the fence. I would appreciate hearing anyone's thoughts about this important choice, any experiences you have had, or references I might find that would help me shed some additional light on the issue. Thanks. Jack Abell RV-6A Elevator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com>
Subject: Re: Metal vs. wood jigs
On 21 Feb 1996, Bob Kutschke wrote: > I'm getting close to ordering the fuselage kit from Van's and am beginning to > wonder about jig construction. Is the wood jig decribed in the plans sufficient > enough to build a plane that doesn't fly sideways? Wood jigs are fine. My wing jig was metal, but only because I got the steel cheaper than wood. My fuselage jig is wood. (I saw the price of Steve Frei's jigs and just about fainted dead). I would suggest using Kiln-dried lumber. You can't find it at places like Home Depot, but your local REAL lumber yard carries it. The most important thing is the straighness of the two long 2x6 side members. When you go to the lumber yard, pick through the 2x6's to find the straightest ones they have. You'll end up shimming the jig anyway (no floor is THAT level), but the straighter the lumber, the less you'll have to shim. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB Fuselage in the jig ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com>
Subject: Re: GPS choices
On Wed, 21 Feb 1996, Cheryl Sanchez wrote: > Here's a new subject. What have you chosen for GPS receivers? > I'm trying to figure out which one to put in my 6A. I'll probably put in the King KLX-135A. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB fuselage in the jig ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Antique Motors
A >BTW, did the annual check list that George had get posted when the list and >my confuser were down? >John D RV6 N61764 completed. John: John O. said that he mailed a copy (snail mail) the other day and when I get it I'll type it in & send it out to the listers. With any luck, I'll be able to get my wife to type it and you'll get it a lot quicker. Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JAllen6526(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 22, 1996
Subject: Re: RE: VOR Antennas or GPS-Only?
If you intend to fly IFR with GPS only, keep in mind that all of the GPS approaches thus far are non-precision. To my knowledge, the only precision approaches currently approved for GPS are for SCAT 1 approaches , which require additional differential receiving equipment on board the aircraft. Therefore you will not be able to fly an ILS equivalent with GPS for some time. When you do, you will need to have an on-board receiver capable of receiving ground-based differential signal, or satellite based (not GPS) differential signal. The upshot is, when weather is down to minimums and the ILS is the only option at the intended airport, you need to have an ILS receiver. You might be able to use your GPS in lieu of cross radials or marker beacons, but GPS is not currently accurate enough to provide vertical guidance like a glideslope. Also, when the controller tells you to intercept the 230 radial and track inbound, whether VFR or IFR, it would be preferable to comply than to have to tell him "negative VOR". ________________________________________________________________________________
From: walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com
Date: Feb 22, 1996
Subject: Landing lights...
I was thumbing through an old Sport Aviation last night and noticed that Dream Catcher(Lancair) had a landing light in the cowl under the right nostril. It was well recessed and really well done. This seems like an idea that has potential for an RV. You could put 1 light in the nose, ahead of the CG and not punch holes in your wings. Why has the wing mounted landing light become the standard? Separate note: I used to work for North American Philips as a Product Engineer for Halogen filaments( about 15years ago ). If I remember correctly, the Halogens were particularly susceptible to over voltage conditions. The numbers were something like 1% increase in volts=5% decrease in life. If your voltage regulator is not working well, you can kiss your halogens good bye very quickly. John ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: Becki Orndorff <rso(at)css.ncifcrf.gov>
Subject: Re: GPS choices
Mitch, I'm not IFR certified so I can't speak to that, but I have done a lot of cross country time in our RV-6A and loved every minute of it. The turbulence is tolerable and usually by adjusting the speed can be reduced. If you look through the archives you will find other comments on the IFR capabilities by experienced pilots. Yes, it is a great plane! Becki Orndorff At 10:29 AM 2/22/96, you wrote: > >I'm looking into building an RV-6A, and since I haven't gotten >a ride in one yet I'm concerned about it's IFR and cross >country comfort level. An RV-4 pilot I talked to said the >controls are so "tight" and the wings so stiff, he couldn't see >doing either IFR or cross countries in it. With the stiff >wings every little bit of turbulence is felt and with the tight >controls you are always active on the stick according to him. >How has your experience been? It looks like a hellova plane >otherwise! > >Thanks - Mitch > >aol.com!WStucklen(at)matronics.com wrote: > >> Here's a new subject. What have you chosen for GPS >receivers? >>I'm trying to figure out which one to put in my 6A. >> >> > > I put in the IIMorrow FlyBuddy with the full North America >Data base that >includes VOR's, NDB's, Intersections as well as all the airport >information. >I use it as a navigational backup to the other IFR equipment >and find it to >be a real confidence builder to the nav information while >flying IFR. > IMO, GPS technology is changing too rapidly to go out and >buy a full IFR >certified unit. For VFR, buy the cheapest unit that fills the >requirements of >your everday flying. > By the way, I have choosen my radios such that they ALL have >LCD displays. >These are backlighted for night time operations as well as >daylight. They are >100% visable in direct sunlight....... > >Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV >wstucklen(at)aol.com > > >-----------------End of Original Message----------------- > > O/ Cut here >-------------------Q\-------------------------------------- >Mitchell Faatz Software Engineer mitch(at)netmanage.com >NetManage Inc. Team Lead - Internet (408) 973-7171 > >Home of Chameleon TCPIP Applications for Windows > MIME Enclosures OK >----------------------------------------------------------- > > Becki Orndorff NCI-FCRDC, Computer & Statistical Services ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: aero(at)napanet.net (Richard G. Slavens)
Subject: Re: Metal vs. wood jigs
Rusty, What was the rental cost of the jig, approx. size and weight of shipment, and setup time ?? Thanks, Dick snip ... >well you do it on what you do it on. I would rent the jig again. > >Rusty Gossard >N47RG RV-4 Flying > > ---------------------------- Richard Slavens (APC) Napa, CA WA6TMF aero(at)napanet.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: vern(at)ldd.net (Vern Lemasters)
Subject: AUTO ENGINES IN 6A
I AM INSTALLING A FORD 3.8L V6 IN MY 6A AND WOULD APPRECIATE ANY RELATED INFO FROM OTHER BUILDERS-FLIERS WHO HAVE EXPERIENCE IN THIS AREA. I AM CURRENTLY GETTING READY TO BUILD THE COOLING SYSTEM AND HAVE A FEW DIFFERENT IDEAS ON WHICH WAY IS THE BEST WAY TO GO. ANY INPUT WOULD BE APPRECIATED vern(at)ldd.net VERN LEMASTERS ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM>
Subject: Re: Landing lights...
> This seems like an idea that has potential for an RV. You could > put 1 light in the nose, ahead of the CG and not punch holes in your > wings. Why has the wing mounted landing light become the standard? Because the strobing effect of the light projected through the propellor can be annoying. Also, the offset of the light to the side can sometimes help you spot objects because they have a visible shadow. Also engine vibration can shorten bulb life. If you REALLY love to replace bulbs, you can go with a gear mounted light. :-) -- "Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!" -- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs "Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: rbusick(at)nmsu.edu (Robert Busick)
Subject: Re: Aileron Counterbalance
Previous comment: Sometimes the requirement for flutter protection dictates greater than 100% mass balance(100% = balance, 100%+ = overbalance). That pipe IS a mass balance weight and was sized by the designer to create an overbalance condition. I am not aware of any procedure to check the amount of overbalance (hanging a known weight at the T.E. and checking for balance). It may change due to finishing or repairs. Perhaps the amount of overbalance built in is not likely to be effected by typical builder variations. David Fried DF-6 C-____ dfried(at)dehavilland.ca >I had a professional test pilot (with parachute) flutter test my first >RV-4 at 220mph and it did just fine. That's good enough for me. >Dan Boudro >RV-4 N9167Z getting close! Interesting comments. Somehow I don't think flutter is such a cut and dried issue. After reading the accident findings on the Steve Whitman crash, I wonder if what we don't know might kill us. For those who did not read the report, the investigators found that the fabric that was bonded to the plywood skin just ahead of the aileron delaminated causing flutter in both ailerons and instantaneous disintegration. I never would have thought that such a problem would have such disasterous results One of my homebuilt mentors continually cautions me on the following: 1. At speeds above 180 MPH strange things start to happen that do not happen below that speed. The original homebuilts were 80 MPH stay in the pattern airplanes. Now we are flying at 200+ MPH and some of us might still me using the 80MPH building/ construction/ designing mindset. What is good enough for 80 MPH is not good enough for 200+ MPH! (I don't critize Van with this comment, he seems to know what he is doing, it is just I, with an enquiring mind, that does not understand.) 2. Airplanes and engines are designed to fail. MTBF or mean time between failure is a design criteria. You can look at the glass half full or half empty, when a part is designed to last for 20,000 hours or an airframe is designed to handle 6 Gs with a 150% margin, then it will fail when the design criteria is exceeded.!! Although I have no understanding of why my microwave oven works, I am a competent in using it. The same can be said for building and flying RVs. We do not have to understand the engineering design aspects of the airplane to build and fly it. But since the purpose of building an airplane is for educational purposes, I would like to learn more than just the mechanical techniques of bonding sheet metal parts together. For my education I enjoy the technical aspects of why things are the way they are. I do not ask the questions to embarass or criticize the airplane or Van's aircraft. Last question for the day: If an RV Vne is 210 MPH, and numerous RVs have exceeded that speed, then what does Vne really mean? Is it a design criteria with a 150% margin like the G loads, or a speed above which the aircraft has not been flight tested, or just a way for the designer to insure no one passes him on a trip to Oskosh? Bob Busick RV-6 rbusick(at)nmsu.edu>> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: rbusick(at)nmsu.edu (Robert Busick)
Subject: Re: Aileron Skin Dimpling
How do you dimple the center aileron top skin for the row of rivets joining the skin to the spar? The C-tool does not reach the center five rivet holes from either side. No other tool I have will dimple this section and I don't like the idea of bending the aileron leading edge flat to use the C-tool. Thanks for the help Bob Busick RV-6 rbusick(at)nmsu.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: Clem.Guillot(at)laitram.com
Subject: ftp problems
I have tried to get the archives from matronics, but I get permision denied when I try to change directory to /pub/business/matronics. Has anyone else had this problem? Thanks Clem ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Feb 22, 1996
Subject: Re: ftp problems
>-------------- >I have tried to get the archives from matronics, but I get >permision denied when I try to change directory to /pub/business/matronics. >Has anyone else had this problem? > >Thanks Clem > >-------------- The ftp server (ftp.matronics.com) is undergoing a OS upgrade from Sun OS to Solaris. It appears that they havn't worked all the bugs out of the update yet... Matt Dralle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
Date: Feb 22, 1996
Subject: Re: Antique Motors
>I was hoping that someone else would bring this up so that I wouldn't have >to show my stupididity. >Is an 'archive search engine' an old motor in an old civilian air patrol >plane that is used for search and rescue? Some how I think not. I have >already read 'Internet for Dummies' and am now looking for a more basic >instruction book, since virtually nothing in it is working on my Netscape. >Anyone have any suggestions for what a beginner could study to help get up >to speed on this stuff? >My attempt at the archives that have been discussed here got me to something >in Ark. that I could click on and get nothing. There was no way to type in >anything, just click on what was there and get more of nothing. >BTW, did the annual check list that George had get posted when the list and >my confuser were down? >John D RV6 N61764 completed. > > Matt Dralle has archived all the messages from the RVList for the last 6 years. This archive can be downloaded and then searched using a windows program written by BF Gibbons. These can be downloaded using Anonymous FTP at ftp.matronics.com/pub/business/matronics In Netscape, just type the above line into the goto line The search engine (but not the archive file) can be downloaded from ftp.intellinet.com/pub/users/bfgibbons/rvsearch Matt: I just tried the above ftp.matronics.com site and it couldn't be found. Is it just temporarily down? 3:40 pm west coast time 2-22 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892 2300 Oakmont Way #205 Fax: 541-342-5492 Eugene, Oregon 97401 email: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
Subject: Carb issues on RV's with air filters
Date: Feb 22, 1996
I have about 14 hrs on my RV4 now. I have a 4 cyl Electronics International EGT/CHT on it. I noticed that the front two cyl (# 1 and 2) are running higher EGT than the rear two (#3 and 4). It is about 75 to 100degrees F hotter on the front. In absolute numbers the front cyl are 1450 or so at 2300 at 2-3000' while the rear cyl may be 1375. This is more pronounced at cruse than at full power climb but also exists at full power. Part of this is due to the fact that the throttle valve (butterfly) is partally closed and that deflects the fuel one way in the intake manifold. This higher temps on the front Cyl indicates a leaner condition. Also, you don't have to pull out the mixture too far before the mixture peaks. I was talking with Bob Brasher of Waco about this. He said the problem is caused by the air filter box and the location of the fuel bowl vent in the venturi. The problem appears to be that the air filter box van designed recovers a lot of pressure as the air slows down. The high pressure at high speeds is hitting this vent hole in the bottom of the venture and it is pressurizing the float bowl. Because the fuel pump only puts out about 4 PSI, he says that the ram air into this vent is over pressurizing the float bowl and that the float bowl is not filling up with fuel to the level it should and this causes the engine to run lean. He said one solution is to bolt a small .040 AL tab to the bolt on the bottom of the carb so that it sticks out and partially obstructs this vent hole to deflect the high pressure away from it. Another mod is to plug this vent hole and move the vent hole up in the venture to where it use to be on the older models. FYI, if you look back in the back issues of RVator, you will find that they use to have problems with the carbs that had the hole located higher up in the venture and recomended the later model with the hole down at the bottom. Bob says that worked fine when the RV's had the simple non-filter airbox. He says now with the air filter the old style works better. I did some experimentation to see if his theroy was correct. I flew the plane at cruse speed and looked at the EGT. I then slowed the plane down by putting it into a climb. Sure enough, below 120 mph, the EGT started dropping, indicating the mixture was richer. He also said in climb is is not as much of a problem due to the lower climb speeds and the carb in the full power rich mode. This also appears to be true based on watching the EGT at various full power climb speeds. I think Bob's theory also explains why the engine quits so easily on hammer heads or any minor negative G load. I my C170, I can do a reasonable hammerhead and the engine does not quit. In the RV it wants to quit every time. I think there is less fuel in the float bowl. Both C170 and the RV have the same carb model. Bob says these carbs were designed for 120 mph aircraft and the speeds the RV's fly are causing the carb problems. I plan to get the details from Bob on what size to make the tab and install one and see how it works. Will let you know. Another mod which he also says helps some is to put a screen over the entire carb inlet. He uses a special SS screen from Detroit Diesel superchargers. I don't know how this helps exactly except to disturb the air flow some and maybe it reduces the ram pressure on the vent hole. Just thought I would throw this out and see if other have had seen this problem. It is not a major problem but Bob says it will make the valve run hotter and cause more guide wear. Herman *NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my own and are independent of my employer. Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander)
Subject: Re: Fuel Injection vs. Normal Aspiration
Jack, .... get it with the regular carb. In this way, the entire engine/prop combination will be certified and you will only need 25 hours in a restricted test area instead of 40 hours. There is no real advantage to the Ellison (really just a floatless carb), and the true fuel injection units are very expensive (Bendix) or not certified (Airflow). I think in the long run, you, your insurance company, your passengers, and the FAA inspector will all be happier with the certified combination. ... see you soon ... Gil A. *** sent privately *** >I have listened with great interest to anecdotal information about the >vagaries of fuel injection systems. I've looked at literature on the >Ellison and Airflow Performance systems but don't feel I have enough >information to make a sensible choice. As I understand it, fuel injection >provides a modest increase in effective horsepower at mid-range power >settings, but not at max power. It is virtually immune to icing and will >sustain fuel-air flow inverted. I have also heard that fuel injected >engines are more difficult to start and injection systems can be >troublesome and difficult to troubleshoot. My aerobatics will be limited >to positive-G maneuvers. I will fly IFR but not in icing conditions. > >Just two days ago I ordered my fuselage and finishing kits, an O-360-A1A, >and c/s prop. I indicated on my order an Ellison installation. I'm >inclined to change it, but I'm really on the fence. I would appreciate >hearing anyone's thoughts about this important choice, any experiences you >have had, or references I might find that would help me shed some >additional light on the issue. > >Thanks. > >Jack Abell >RV-6A Elevator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
Subject: Fuel Injection vs. Normal Aspiration (fwd)
Date: Feb 22, 1996
> > Just two days ago I ordered my fuselage and finishing kits, an O-360-A1A, > and c/s prop. I indicated on my order an Ellison installation. I'm > inclined to change it, but I'm really on the fence. I would appreciate > hearing anyone's thoughts about this important choice, any experiences you > have had, or references I might find that would help me shed some > additional light on the issue. > Did you order an new A1A engine from Van? If so, it comes with a new carb. I would just use it. Why spend money on something else? You know that is why Van sells only the carb 0320 and O360's as the recommended engines as he knows they are lower cost and it is not worth the extra $$ for the injected engine. (The 8 will have the IO360 however, at mucho more $$). You can do all positive acro with the carb. Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
Subject: Spins in RV's
Date: Feb 22, 1996
> Congratulations on your flight! > > Now, I have a question. I've *heard* that RVs have scary spin > characteristics. Care to comment? > > Thanks. > > -Joe > Joe, I will just post this to the net as well. Van had one of the RV's (RV6 I think) spin tested by the late Bob Herrendeen (?sp) and this was documented in the RVator some time back. Van later did some tests himself and he said he was glad he had Bob test it first as the spin rate is fast and he then had the confidence that it was controllable due to the fact that Bob had done a complete test on it. At this point, I have spun both left and right up to about 3.5 turns. For reference, I have spun my Pitts up to 10 or so turns. Yes, the RV does spin fast. I think I used up about 1500 ft (start to level flight recovery) in 3 turns and it took about half a turn or a little more to recover. It also appeared to have some osculation in it, where the nose moves up and down as it goes around. That is not uncommon in a spin esp. in the first few turns. The nose was very nose down, probably due to the fwd CG with single pilot in RV4. I probably need to try a few more and get some rotation times and decent rates. I only did this single pilot in a RV4 so I am sure it would spin with the nose higher with a pilot in the rear. The important thing is it does recover fine, make sure the power is off, use full opposite rudder to stop the rotation and then neutralize the stick (fwd stick in an upright spin). I hope most of you know that if push the stick forward first you will accelerate the spin so you keep the stick back till the rotation stops. FYI, I was wearing a parachute. Herman Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831 MS: 9530 fax: 512-838-1801 mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 22, 1996
Subject: Re: Fuel Injection vs. Normal Aspiration
Re:Ellison vs.F.I. If your just going to do pos. maneuvers, I think the carb, not Ellison, is the most cost effective. Heard the Ellisons are picky about mixture adjustments. I flew 500 hr in a carb equipped -4, and had no problem till I switced to a wood prop- had to watch the neg much closer- engine would stop- no prop turning- much easier. BTW, Herman (Texas Outlaw) is flying that metal prop last I knew . Could be his hammerheads have improved... Airflow Injector (not FAA-PMA) setups evidently can't be beat for more enthusiastic maneuvers, tho. Check six! Mark PS These setups are all normally aspirated, not boosted or supercharged, ;-). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen )
Subject: Re:
I disagree. Do not let them collect dust! If you get a bit moisture in the dust and the dust have a (even small) amount of acid or other corrosion agent in it it'll corrode. But also don't wrap in airtight plastic that can retain moisture. Probably best to wrap in some cloth that can breathe. And take parts out and clean them regularily (every 3 months or so?). I've bought an unfinished RV3 that has been stored for a long time. On the unprotected (up) sides where dust collected, it's badly corroded. Finn You wrote: > > >>All my finished pieces have >>been wrapped in plastic and hung in the corner of my garage from the >>ceiling. > >Chet, do you live in Arizona? In the fron on Van's builders manual he states >that you should no wrap any of the pieces in paper or plastic as this is just >asking for corrosion to set it. Leave them out in the open and let them get >dusty. > >Gary Zilik RV-6A 22993 (One rear tank baffle to go) > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen )
Subject: Corroded Alu
Most of the priming Q&As have centered around corrosion PREVENTION. As I've mentioned, I bought an old unfinished RV3. What I stupidly mistook for just dirt was really corrosion! I've been told I need to sand the material down till all blak spots are gone. I've tried working with the Duponts 225S cleaner (I can't read the washed out instructions on bottle). My question is this: will the 225S bind with and stop corrosion so I don't have to sand down till all black spots are gone? Or is there some other treatment/primer that will? (Talking about the aluminum parts here -- for steel I believe rustolium (SP?) or such binds with the rust and stops it.) I don't want to weaken the material more than neccesary by sanding it too thin if there is some way to stop further corrosion in the pits. Any advice (short of "shrow away the kit and buy a new one") is welcome. Especially if it'll shorten the corrosion "clean-up" work. Finn ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mbaker(at)gate.net
Subject: Re: Metal vs. wood jigs
Date: Feb 22, 1996
There's a question at the bottom of this page, I promise! I'm just getting started on my empennage and chose to build a wooden jig. I spent an hour this afternoon digging through a pallet of 2x6's at Home Depot this afternoon. I was fortunate enough to find 3 #1 grade 2x6x10's in the pile that were nearly perfect. I bought 3 #2's that were nice except for flaws on the end. This was a really nice pallet of white, untreated, kiln dried lumber. I brought them home and have sisted the two #1's with a #2 each. I matched them up and nailed them together with 8d nails - staggered, about 1' apart for the 1st 8 feet. I then bolted them together with countersunk 3"x 5/16" bolts, washers, and nuts on center every 18" to make a rigid beam. These are going to be stood on end to make the uprights. I'll use framing brackets to attach to the rafters and the concrete floor. My wife discovered this afternoon that I planned to knock holes in the garage ceiling. She suggested that I lag bolt the top of the upright to a rafter rather than going through with the entire thing. I could use a two L supports and cut the beam flush with the ceiling. Is this what folks are doing or should I just cut a 3x6" hole in the ceiling to get a firm fix on the rafter? Thanks! Mickey Baker | Sage Research Corporation mbaker(at)gate.net | Pompano Beach, FL KC4ZU PP-ASEL-IA Cheetah N9856U | (305)785-2354 "Men should ause for ONE MOMENT and take another LONG LOOK at the very thing that brings meaning to their meaningless lives." -B. Breathed ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer)
Subject: Re: Aileron Skin Dimpling
Get a pop rivet dimpling die set from Wicks or Avery, I did my entire aileron skin with one. I does as good a job as the C-frame tool with $40.00 dies, but not as fast. Chet Razer crazer(at)midwest.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Feb 22, 1996
Subject: Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question
> > >On Tue, 20 Feb 1996 av8r(at)hic.net wrote: > >> Do I really have to fork out for a separate G.S. antenna????? > >Yes, you do. VOR's and Localizers are VHF, The Glideslope signal is UHF. > >Best Regards, >Dave Barnhart >rv-6 sn 23744 > Dave: I must disagree. There is a splitter that can split the signal in 2 . I have one whisker antenna feeding a KX155 with Glide slope. VOR and glide slope work fine. Splitter supplied by my avionics shop. Standard legal installation. By the way... did you know you are not suppose to shorten the coax supplied with the antenna, My avionics shop made a point of telling me it is tuned to lenght. They had me wind it up under the floor and secure it. Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: Spins in RV's
>> Congratulations on your flight! >> >> Now, I have a question. I've *heard* that RVs have scary spin >> characteristics. Care to comment? >> >> Thanks. >> >> -Joe >> > Joe, I will just post this to the net as well. > Van had one of the RV's (RV6 I think) spin tested by the late > Bob Herrendeen (?sp) and this was documented in the RVator some time back. > Van later did some tests himself and he said he was glad he had Bob > test it first as the spin rate is fast and he then had the confidence > that it was controllable due to the fact that Bob had done a complete > test on it. > > At this point, I have spun both left and right up to about 3.5 turns. > For reference, I have spun my Pitts up to 10 or so turns. > Yes, the RV does spin fast. I think I used up about 1500 ft (start to > level flight recovery) in 3 turns and it took about half a turn or > a little more to recover. > It also appeared to have some osculation in it, where the nose moves > up and down as it goes around. That is not uncommon in a spin esp. in > the first few turns. The nose was very nose down, probably due to the > fwd CG with single pilot in RV4. > I probably need to try a few more and get some > rotation times and decent rates. > > I only did this single pilot in a RV4 so I am sure it would spin > with the nose higher with a pilot in the rear. > > The important thing is it does recover fine, make sure the power is off, > use full opposite rudder to stop the rotation and then neutralize the > stick (fwd stick in an upright spin). > I hope most of you know that if push the stick forward first you > will accelerate the spin so you keep the stick back till the rotation > stops. > FYI, I was wearing a parachute. > > Herman > >Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas >AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis >phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831 >MS: 9530 fax: 512-838-1801 >mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com > One of the members of the Blackjack Squadron (Puget Sound RVators) spin tested his RV-4 both left and right (solo) several times while filming it with his video camera. It was really fascinating to see the difference between right and left spins. I haven't watched the video for a couple of years but I remember that it spun faster one direction than the other. Also, while it would recover without input one direction, in the other direction the stick remained in the rear corner and it continued to spin. The spins seemed to be about 1 1/2 to 2 seconds per revolution. I have a copy of the tape and if the pilot ok's it I could duplicate it for those that want to see this. Let me know. John Ammeter ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com Seattle WA, USA RV-6 N16JA Flying 5 years ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 23, 1996
Subject: Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question
No you don't! Just buy a diplexer and use the VOR anntenna to get GS signals. Cost is about $55. Jim Cone JamesCone(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: Jim Ayers <102337.2252(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re(2): 50w halogen light
>How has the longevity been? -- Ed Bundy I always fly with one of the landing lights, or the wingtip strobes, on all the time. I have 60+ hours on the engine/cowl/landing light installation, so far. I bought extra lights, but haven't had to replace either one yet. I have a three position switch for the landing lights; spot light, off, flood light, so I can only turn on one of the landing lights at a time. I have been checking the engine, and testing different prop blades, so I haven't tried any night flying yet with the new engine. I am interested in finding out if the light mounted in the cowl below the spinner can reflect light back to the cockpit. (It just occurred to me, I could just run the engine on the ground at night and tell that.) Jim Ayers LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder 102337.2252(at)compuserve.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: RV-Check List
>John: John O. said that he mailed a copy (snail mail) the other day and >when I get it I'll type it in & send it out to the listers. With any luck, >I'll be able to get my wife to type it and you'll get it a lot quicker. >Bob Skinner RV-6 > Bob Thanks, I'm looking forward to it. My second annual is due in March and will feel a lot better by xchecking with someone else ck list to supplement mine. Thanks again. John D> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Aileron Skin Dimpling
> How do you dimple the center aileron top skin for the row of rivets >joining the skin to the spar? The C-tool does not reach the center five >rivet holes from either side. No other tool I have will dimple this >section and I don't like the idea of bending the aileron leading edge flat >to use the C-tool. > Bob, If I remember correctly, there was one place that clamping that deep throat tool from Bob Avery to a table top, with the operating part hanging about a foot from the edge did the trick. There was one area I made a backing tool from an extra piece of flat iron, drilled a hole near the corner, place the female dimpler in it, and hand held the male tool while hitting it with the hammer. One of these methods may get you where you want to be. Luck to ya. John D RV6 #n61764 completed. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: GPS choices
Mitch I don't understand controls being tight and wings stiff, but in my opinion, I wouldn't consider the 6 as a serious cross country IFR bird. As a minimum you would need a wing leveler. This may be due to my age, but just for reference, and not ringing my bell, my background is all in military fighters, I am a graduate of Intrument Pilot Instructors Shool and was an Inst Instr. and examiner in the AF for 19 years. To me the plane is not stabil enought to do serious ifr. To go up through and back down is one thing, even to make a serious min. approach is OK, but at length xc, it is not conducive the way it is. This is not meant to knock the airplane. There are some planes that are steady as a rock, and others that drift all over the sky unless you are with it every second- look at an approach plate and back up and every thing has gone to hell, regardless how fast your crosscheck is. Others will have to tell you how the 6 stacks up with other civ. a/c, but the above is my opinion. I am thinking seriously about installing a wing leveler for just vfr xcountry. GPS? I installed a panel mount loran, and think it was a mistake. The hand helds do everything the panel mounts will, in many cases more. Why pay the diff. for the panel mount! But now I have this place in my panel, and no good place to put a hand held. If I had planned it to start with for a hand held, it would be OK. I am giving serious thought to building from scratch a new panel and lay it out for a location of a handheld. I ain't gonna hold that dude all the time! John D RV6 #N61764 completed. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Spins in RV's
>> Now, I have a question. I've *heard* that RVs have scary spin >> characteristics. Care to comment? >> >> Thanks. >> >> -Joe Joe, Is there such a thing as a non scary spin? John D RV6 N61764 completed ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: ftp problems
>I have tried to get the archives from matronics, but I get >permision denied when I try to change directory to /pub/business/matronics. >Has anyone else had this problem? > >Thanks Clem > Clem, don't feel like you are walking alone into the darkness of the neither world! You betcha I'm having that kind of problems, but in all honesty, I think it's my stupidity and lack of knowledge in this area. John D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Zilik(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 23, 1996
Subject: Re: Landing lights...
>This seems like an idea that has potential for an RV. You could put 1 >light in the nose, ahead of the CG and not punch holes in your wings. >Why has the wing mounted landing light become the standard? Wing mounted lights will last many times longer than cowl mounted ones. My fathers 1957 182A has been flying for the last fifteen years with the same landing and taxi lights that were in the plane when he bought it. Cessna mounted the lights at about the halfway point on the left wing leading edge. This cuts down on the vibration transmitted through the airframe. Gary Zilik RV-6A 22993 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Zilik(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 23, 1996
Subject: Re: Aileron Skin Dimpling
>How do you dimple the center aileron top skin for the row of rivets >joining the skin to the spar? The C-tool does not reach the center five >rivet holes from either side. No other tool I have will dimple this >section and I don't like the idea of bending the aileron leading edge flat >to use the C-tool. Your right, you can' get to them with the dimpling tool from the ends of the skin. Put the skin perpendicular to the tool and roll the leading egde a little tighter with your free hand so that it will clear the shaft on the dimpler. Be carefull not to squeeze to much or you could put a perminant crease in the leading edge. A friend of wife is a real plus here. Gary Zilik RV-6A 22993 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: aero(at)napanet.net (Richard Slavens)
Subject: Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question
Well, not really. Many GA aircraft just use a RF Diplexer or Triplexer or xxplexer Spiltter which will allow a common VOR antenna to work with 1 or 2 VOR/LOC and 1 or 2 glide slope receivers. It's not a perfect design, but it works good enough. Downside, I would expect about 1 dB of insertion loss, plus 3 dB for the same band split. If I remember correctly the glide slope Freq. is a about 330 Mhz, which means the VOR Ant. becomes a 3/4 wave glide slope Ant. and the impendance match should be OK. In general, antennas are not as critical on receive as on transmit. Safe Flying, Dick Slavens still waiting for the RV-8... > > >On Tue, 20 Feb 1996 av8r(at)hic.net wrote: > >> Do I really have to fork out for a separate G.S. antenna????? > >Yes, you do. VOR's and Localizers are VHF, The Glideslope signal is UHF. > >Best Regards, >Dave Barnhart >rv-6 sn 23744 > > ---------------------------- Richard Slavens (APC) Napa, CA WA6TMF aero(at)napanet.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: Graham Taylor <gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au>
Subject: Stall Warning Device
The Australian authorities require a stall warning device on my 6A, so I have rigged up a Cherry microswitch activated by a small hinged stainless steel vane, which will poke thru a small slot in the leading edge, just like a Piper Cherokee or Arrow. Does anyone have any idea where the vane should be in relation to the chord line, or any other reference point, so it will trip the switch at 5 knots above the stall. The switch will activate one of the alarm circuits built into the Rocky Mountain engine monitor. Graham Taylor RV-6A - F/Fwd complete, a few small jobs before final plumbing, wiring, etc. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rolf Hankers" <ROLF(at)abraham.iff.ing.tu-bs.de>
Date: Feb 23, 1996
Subject: Re: Fuel Injection vs. Normal Aspiration
hey, everybody says that he has HEARD the Ellison is not good... or so on. I am flying my -4 with the Ellison TBI since 130 hours without any problems and without any fiddling with the mixture screw. The engine (O-320 with 160 hp) is running like a turboprop without missing any beat since the first flight. I perform aerobatics over half of the flying time and the engine performs like an injected engine. The fuel consumption is exactly the same as with the carburator (according to the manuals) - with moderate leaning. At lower power settings you can even save more fuel while radical leaning beyond peak EGT; the engine starts running roughly only with an extreme lean mixture. In my opinion the Ellison TBI is the next best thing to an injected engine - and considering the costs - it is the best solution for the pilots who want to fly upside down. But - just to remember - you also need the Christen Inverted oil system for inverted flights. Otherwise your engine is junk after some couple of minutes. Rolf Hankers RV-4 flying ROLF(at)abraham.iff.ing.tu-bs.de ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rolf Hankers" <ROLF(at)abraham.iff.ing.tu-bs.de>
Date: Feb 23, 1996
Subject: Re: Spins in RV's
hey, we have made many spins with my -4, all with the rear seat not occupied. The spinning to the left is very fast and after 2 turns rather steady. To the rigth there are oscillations; half turn spinning and half turn only spiraling - and that is very bad for competition. We performed up to 8 rounds to the left and 6 to the right. With the normal anti-spin inputs (idle, ailerons neutral, rudder-when rotation stopps- elevator) it spins nearly 1 1/2 turns to the left resp. 1 turn to the right. Especially the spinning to the right is very uncomfortable because of the changes in rotating speed. The altitude loss is approx. 500 ft for one revolution, the time is 1 1/2 to 2 seconds. That means the machine is descending with ca. 15000 ft/min. During recovery the elevator forces are quite high, estimated 25 to 30 lbs. The -4 will not enter the spin very easily; but there is only very little stall warning (buffeting) before the stall. Stay building, you get one of the finest flying machines ever invented. Rolf Hankers RV-4 flying ROLF(at)abraham.iff.ing.tu-bs.de ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 23, 1996
Subject: Re: RV Ride comfort factor
>'m looking into building an RV-6A, and since I haven't gotten >a ride in one yet I'm concerned about it's IFR and cross >country comfort level. An RV-4 pilot I talked to said the >controls are so "tight" and the wings so stiff, he couldn't see >doing either IFR or cross countries in it. With the stiff >wings every little bit of turbulence is felt and with the tight >controls you are always active on the stick according to him. >How has your experience been? It looks like a hellova plane >otherwise! I've traveled to Florida from the New England area four times, out to the midwest twice, and nurmerous other trips in excess of two hours each. I've also got over 100 hours IFR logged in actual conditions with in excess of 650 Hrs total time.. I do recommend a wing leveler for those long IFR rides: this aircraft requires that you be on the gages 100% of the time during turbulent IFR, leaving no time for ammended clearances without the wing leveler. The comfort level is about the same as a Cherokee 140, except that there is less yall in turbulence. I would classify its turbulence comfort factor to be the same as any other light aircraft, but it has the added feature of having the ability to climb quickly up into less turbulent air. Yes, the controls are quite light, but even in turbulence in IFR conditions, it is still quite manageable once you get used to it. Try it, You'll like it! And if you're in the New England area, I'll even offer you a ride! Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 23, 1996
Subject: Re: ftp problems
> have tried to get the archives from matronics, but I get >permision denied when I try to change directory to /pub/business/matronics. >Has anyone else had this problem? > >Thanks Clem Yes.... I still haven't gotten it...... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: av8r(at)hic.net
Date: Feb 23, 1996
Subject: Re: Metal vs. wood jigs
>My wife discovered this afternoon that I planned to knock holes in the >garage ceiling. She suggested that I lag bolt the top of the upright >to a rafter rather than going through with the entire thing. I could >use a two L supports and cut the beam flush with the ceiling. >Is this what folks are doing or should I just cut a 3x6" hole in the >ceiling to get a firm fix on the rafter? >Mickey Baker | Sage Research Corporation Mickey.... Sounds like you are really doing a number on that jig. Your RV-747 (:^) should stay true. Re; the hole in the ceiling, I would agree with your wife regarding this... - (and believe me, at your stage of the project you need to do this agreeing thing as often as possible!!). Seriously, just lag bolt about 8" of 2x4 to the ceiling joist thru the sheetrock, screw the upright to this, and you will have no trouble - also, if you want to secure the bottom easily, I found a good glob of epoxy did just fine... Good luck and best regards Rob Lee painting RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 23, 1996
Subject: Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question
>n Tue, 20 Feb 1996 av8r(at)hic.net wrote: > >> Do I really have to fork out for a separate G.S. antenna????? > >Yes, you do. VOR's and Localizers are VHF, The Glideslope signal is UHF. > >Best Regards, >Dave Barnhart >rv-6 sn 23744 > > > > Not so at all. There are several splitters on the market that utilize the VOR antenna for the glide slope receiver, and they work! Narco produced the NAV-122 (VOR, LOC, GLIDE SLOPE and MARKER beacon receivers all in one box). It requires only ONE VOR ANTENNA! Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 23, 1996
Subject: Re: Landing lights...
>I was thumbing through an old Sport Aviation last night and noticed that >Dream Catcher(Lancair) had a landing light in the cowl under the right >nostril. It was well recessed and really well done. > >This seems like an idea that has potential for an RV. You could put 1 >light in the nose, ahead of the CG and not punch holes in your wings. >Why has the wing mounted landing light become the standard? > > Have you ever remover the cowl from a Cherokee 180 and forgotten to detach the landing light wire? Or worst yet, found out you (or the mechanic) forgot to re-attach it and the light didn't turn on during a night lading? And how did you like the poor visibility during a night landing with that small lamp? Cutting the landing lights into the wings is no big deal, and the resultant runway illumination with 130 Watt halagen bulbs in the wing is fantastic. And I haven't changed one in the 650 Hrs of flying (about 25% of which is at night). Ever see a big jet comming in to land at twilight? That's what an RV looks like on final with the landing lights ON. Eat your hearts out Cherokee & Cessna drivers! Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com>
Subject: Re: Landing lights...
On Thu, 22 Feb 1996 walsh(at)cpeedy.enet.dec.com wrote: > Why has the wing mounted landing light become the standard? Probably because a lot of us remember the BAD experiences we had when Cessna moved the landing light from the wing to the cowl. The fiberglass cowls fibrate so much that it really shortens the life of the light. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com>
Subject: Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question
On Tue, 20 Feb 1996 av8r(at)hic.net wrote: > Do I really have to fork out for a separate G.S. antenna????? To which I replied: >Yes, you do. VOR's and Localizers are VHF, The Glideslope signal is UHF. To which Rusty responded: > I must disagree. There is a splitter that can split the signal in 2 . > > I have one whisker antenna feeding a KX155 with Glide slope. VOR and glide > slope work fine. Splitter supplied by my avionics shop. Standard legal > installation. > > By the way... did you know you are not suppose to shorten the coax supplied > with the antenna, My avionics shop made a point of telling me it is tuned to > lenght. > They had me wind it up under the floor and secure it. I've been working with radios and RF since the days when they had tubes in them. Pick up any book on antenna design and you will quickly see that the length of the antenna needs to be tuned to the frequency you want to receive. Yes, you could use a VOR antenna to receive glideslope signals. HOWEVER, you would be working with a de-tuned antenna. Performance will be suboptimal. In a receive-only situation (like the glideslope receiver) you can get away with this if you are willing to live with the performance penalty. With a *transmitter*, this is strictly a no-no. As to the length of the coax: SOME radios and SOME antennas are sensitive to the length of the feedline. For example the antenna on my HF ham transmitter at home does not care how long the feedline is, as long as it is at least 60 feet in length. Unless the installation instructions accompanying the radio or the antenna specifically call out requirements for feedline lengths, you don't have to worry about it. The RG-58 coax should present a constant 50 ohms impedance no matter what its length. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB Ham radio WB7OBG ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: meehan(at)coopext.cahe.wsu.edu (Don Meehan)
Subject: Re: Stall Warning Device
I think this is an important device most of us have been trained with and I hope someone can come up with one that will work in the 6A. Please keep us informed as to progress. >The Australian authorities require a stall warning device on my 6A, so I >have rigged up a Cherry microswitch activated by a small hinged stainless >steel vane, which will poke thru a small slot in the leading edge, just >like a Piper Cherokee or Arrow. > >Does anyone have any idea where the vane should be in relation to the >chord line, or any other reference point, so it will trip the switch at 5 >knots above the stall. > >The switch will activate one of the alarm circuits built into the Rocky >Mountain engine monitor. > > >Graham Taylor >RV-6A - F/Fwd complete, a few small jobs before final plumbing, wiring, etc. > > > Don Meehan WSU Cooperative Extension Island County Coupeville, WA 98239-5000 206-679-7327 meehan(at)wsu.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
From: av8r(at)hic.net
Date: Feb 23, 1996
Subject: Re: Stall Warning Device
Graham Taylor wrote.. Does anyone have any idea where the vane should be in relation to the chord line, or any other reference point, so it will trip the switch at 5 knots above the stall. Hi Graham, I have installed the same thing on my 6A, not because it's needed, but because someone gave me an old one, and I like the added security, and some RV's apparently dont have too much of a pre-stall buffet. Like you I didn't know where to carve the hole in the L.E. so I went on a mission, and looked at where it was on every piper, beech,rockwell,and grumman I could find on the ramp. Results.. I have the vane at about 3/4"below the "apex" of the L.E curve - and about 6" outboard of the outer tank seam. Ive not checked it out yet (but I'm getting closer!) but I think that this position, in conjunction with the 1/2" or so of adjustment in the mount, should let me get the warning (radio shack buzzer for me) to sound where I want it to. G'day mate Rob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca
Subject: Re: Stall Warning Device
At some point on the leading edge the flow will divide between the upper and lower surface. This point(stagnation point) is where the surface pressure is equal to the freestream dynamic pressure. As angle of attack changes this point moves around a fair bit (down and back with increasing angle). As soon as the stagnation point moves below your vane it will trigger the stall warning. The trick is to find out where it is at the airfoil stall angle. The best way is to install it in an adjustable base plate and try it out. For starters, look at a Piper and duplicate that. This device is a safety enhancing feature, please post more details when you have sorted it out. David Fried DF-6 C-____ dfried(at)dehavilland.ca ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RV-List: Stall Warning Device Date: 2/23/96 09:26 AM The Australian authorities require a stall warning device on my 6A, so I have rigged up a Cherry microswitch activated by a small hinged stainless steel vane, which will poke thru a small slot in the leading edge, just like a Piper Cherokee or Arrow. Does anyone have any idea where the vane should be in relation to the chord line, or any other reference point, so it will trip the switch at 5 knots above the stall. The switch will activate one of the alarm circuits built into the Rocky Mountain engine monitor. Graham Taylor RV-6A - F/Fwd complete, a few small jobs before final plumbing, wiring, etc. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: Scott.Fink(at)Microchip.COM (Scott Fink)
Subject: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question
No you don't, my Cherokee has a three way splitter, two to the VORs, and one to the GS receiver. This is a VERY typical installation. Best Regards, Scott Fink ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: RV-List: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question Internet_Exchange Date: 2/22/96 10:51 AM On Tue, 20 Feb 1996 av8r(at)hic.net wrote: > Do I really have to fork out for a separate G.S. antenna????? Yes, you do. VOR's and Localizers are VHF, The Glideslope signal is UHF. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: "Smith, Hal" <smith1h(at)macsmtpgw.spring-branch.isd.tenet.edu>
Subject: ftp problems
I'm not to this point in my construction yet, but I think I would use the pop-rivit type dimpleing tool to do the job. You can get them from Avery. Hal Finishing left elevator _______________________________________________________________________________
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Fri, Feb 23, 1996 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: ftp problems
RFC Header:Received: by macsmtpgw.spring-branch.isd.tenet.edu with SMTP;23 Feb 1996 10:03:25 U
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: John Darby <our-town.com!johnd(at)matronics.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: ftp problems >I have tried to get the archives from matronics, but I get >permision denied when I try to change directory to /pub/business/matronics. >Has anyone else had this problem? > >Thanks Clem > Clem, don't feel like you are walking alone into the darkness of the neither world! You betcha I'm having that kind of problems, but in all honesty, I think it's my stupidity and lack of knowledge in this area. John D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: dls(at)neptune.kpt.arl.psu.edu (Dan Shades)
Subject: Phlogiston spars
Are the phlogiston spars worth the extra $825? Maybe someone could give me some insight into this. How much time does it actually save? I work where we have alot of our components annodized before use. This results in the material becoming harder and more brittle. Does this have any affect on these spars? I know that the corrosion is almost nil with components that have been annodized. I have seen 6061 that has been annodized hold up to daily submersion in seawater for years without any corrosion. Dan Shades RV-4 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mbaker(at)gate.net
Subject: Re: Metal vs. wood jigs
Date: Feb 23, 1996
Thanks, Lee. With our recent hurricane history, "under the jig" would be one of the safest places in the house! I'm going to do exactly as you suggest. Mickey mbaker(at)gate.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Metal vs. wood jigs
>My wife discovered this afternoon that I planned to knock holes in the >garage ceiling. She suggested that I lag bolt the top of the upright >to a rafter rather than going through with the entire thing. I could >use a two L supports and cut the beam flush with the ceiling. > >Is this what folks are doing or should I just cut a 3x6" hole in the >ceiling to get a firm fix on the rafter? > >Thanks! >Mickey Baker | Sage Research Corporation Mickey: I'd listen to the wife. She obviously doesn't want you to cut a hole in the ceiling:) I'd tell her what a great idea she had ie, you value her input. Make her a "friend" of your project right off the bat and maybe end up with a lot of support and a good helper to boot. Your "L" supports should work fine. Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Props
>I have been checking the engine, and testing different prop blades, so I haven't >tried any night >flying yet with the new engine. I am interested in finding out if the light >mounted in the cowl >below the spinner can reflect light back to the cockpit. (It just occurred to >me, I could just run the >engine on the ground at night and tell that.) > >Jim Ayers >LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder >102337.2252(at)compuserve.com Jim: When you have time, could you write about your experiences on testing various props? Maybe it would make some of us (me) feel better about trying and trying to find the correct prop. I'm ready to go to plan "B" and give up on my first prop. I hope not to end up with a wall of unusable props. On the last re-pitch, I gained 2-3 mph and 30 rpm's, but my take off and climb are lousy, 650 fpm, at gross weight. The engine is just not reving up and making power, rpm's loo low. Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE )
Subject: Re: Aileron Skin Dimpling
You wrote: > > How do you dimple the center aileron top skin for the row of rivets >joining the skin to the spar? The C-tool does not reach the center five >rivet holes from either side. No other tool I have will dimple this >section and I don't like the idea of bending the aileron leading edge flat >to use the C-tool. > >Thanks for the help > >Bob Busick >RV-6 >rbusick(at)nmsu.edu > > > Bob, Have you tried the pop-rivit dimple dies from Avery's? They use a nail thru the two dies and a pop rivit tool to form the die. You can grind them down for hard to reach places. Ed Cole ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: Rich Klee <Rich_Klee(at)ccm.fm.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Phlogiston spars
Dan, I finished my spars in 40-45 hours, one of the few places on the RV where I can say I worked for ~$20/hour. It is relatively simple - since all the holes are drilled. All you do is taper the flange strips (about a day and 2 band saw blades), deburr everything, prime and rivet. There are at least 5 different ways you can rivet the spars (my method is on John Hovan's web site -w/pictures). I think, if you trying to speed up your progress (at the expense of the educational portion of the project) you will get quite a bang for your buck out the Steve Barnard's Wing Kit (but I think you need the Phlogiston spars for that). rich -6a skinning the fuse ======================================================================= Rich Klee 4564 Chicago Ave. rich_klee(at)ccm.fm.intel.com Fair Oaks, CA 95628 (916) 863-1927 (will accept faxes) ======================================================================= Are the phlogiston spars worth the extra $825? Maybe someone could give me some insight into this. How much time does it actually save? I work where we have alot of our components annodized before use. This results in the material becoming harder and more brittle. Does this have any affect on these spars? I know that the corrosion is almost nil with components that have been annodized. I have seen 6061 that has been annodized hold up to daily submersion in seawater for years without any corrosion. Dan Shades RV-4 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: dyer(at)edlmail.jsc.nasa.gov (Terry )
I may be moving from Houston to Dallas and I am interested in finding a group of Rv'ers in the North Dallas area. I am interested in a good airport with hanger space available. Does anyone know a good place in the area. I have an Rv-6A that is two years old with about 300 hours on it. Thanks Terry N294RV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com>
Subject: Re: Phlogiston spars
On Fri, 23 Feb 1996, Dan Shades wrote: > Are the phlogiston spars worth the extra $825? There is no problem with building the spars yourself. They come pre-drilled now, so it's simply a matter of priming it, and bolting and riveting it together (and saving $825) When I ordered my wing kit, I bought the Phlogiston spar for three reasons: 1. The 'pre-punched wing skin' option required the phlogiston spar. As I understand it, Phlogiston does the spar drilling for all of the spars. At that time (about a year ago) when Phlogiston drilled/assembled a spar for a kit with pre-punched skins, they would to the drilling to tighter tolerences to guarantee the ribs would line up with the pre-punched holes in the skins. If Phlogiston is now holding these tighter tolerences on ALL spars when they drill them, then this reason is no longer valid. 2. If (god forbid), I ever have to sell the airplane, then IMHO the Phlogiston spar makes the airplane more saleable. 3. It saved me 40 hours of work. Does the annodizing have any affect on the spar? Yes. Van's (or maybe it was Phlogiston) did the engineering, and the annodizing reduced the fatigue life down to something like (only) 80 years. Would I buy the Phlogiston spar again? yup. in a heartbeat. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB Fuselage in the jig ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: RV Ride comfort factor
> I'm looking into building an RV-6A, and since I haven't gotten > a ride in one yet I'm concerned about it's IFR and cross > country comfort level. I can't speak directly about IFR, but I after traveling from Oregon to Florida and back I can say the RV-6A is a GREAT cross-country platform. It isn't as big or roomy as a 172 but still a LOT more comfortable than a C-152. And the extra speed and climb performance makes it easy to climb into clear air, over mountains, go around weather, etc. Just be careful that the co-pilot doesn't drool on you when he nods off.... Randall Henderson RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Aileron Skin Dimpling
I used the Avery tool for dimpling my ailerons. I had to bend em pretty far but they came out fine. Someone else showed me a method they learned from Art Chard -- tape 3/32" rivets into the holes and use a rivet gun with a 3/32" female dimple die on it and a back rivet plate to "back-dimple" using the rivets as a male dimple die. This assumes you have a set for your gun that will hold dimple dies. Randall Henderson RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JAllen6526(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 23, 1996
Subject: Re: GPS choices
I intend to put a Magellan EC-10X in my RV-6A. Of course, I work for Magellan and manage that product line so it's not much of an endorsement. My recommendation is that, unless you feel a keen need to put a panel mount GPS receiver in the airplane, that you opt for a handheld unit. In a bang for the buck test there just isn't any comparison. The handhelds have more features, are easier to use, and are whole lot cheaper. This is because they are based upon the same platforms as the manufacturer's marine products (There are 20 million boats and about 750,000 airplanes.), then beefed up to provide the speed and memory necessary to support the database and moving map functions of an aviation product. The primary problem with handhelds is finding a convenient place for them. But then, we're homebuilder's aren't we? As for which one to buy, I would suggest purchasing from one of the three main competitors, Garmin, IIMorrow, and Magellan. Accuracy is virtually the same with all of them. The feature set is very similar. Garmin's claim to fame is a battery life that's about double the others, and in a very slim package, though the screen is small and not as easy to read.. Magellan's Skyblazer has a "large" screen and a pixel density that's twice that of the other two and therefore is easiest on the eyes and has the best moving map. IIMorrow's Precedus is a beautiful unit that does everything well and with everything but the kitchen sink thrown in, with a Cadillac price to match. One of the problems in this business is that we have good competitors. Pick a unit you like and you won't be dissapointed. John Allen RV-6A Skinning the fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Landing lights...
and the >resultant runway illumination with 130 Watt halagen bulbs in the wing is >fantastic. And I haven't changed one in the 650 Hrs of flying (about 25% of >which is at night). > Ever see a big jet comming in to land at twilight? That's what an RV >looks like on final with the landing lights ON. Eat your hearts out Cherokee >& Cessna drivers! > >Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV >wstucklen(at)aol.com Fred: Boy, I'm excited, now. I don't remember you telling us that your landing light bulbs were lasting that long! I've only been getting 7-8 hrs on the GE4509's. I'm running a test on the 55 and 100 watt H3 halogens now to get an idea of bulb life. Do you have your lights in the tips or wings? Are these the lights you started with? Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Phlogiston spars
> Are the phlogiston spars worth the extra $825? Maybe someone could give me > some insight into this. How much time does it actually save? Check out the RV-list FAQ -- there's a write-up in there about the costs vs time issues for the Phlogiston wing spar. Regarding hardness/brittleness: Van wrote it up once in the RVator -- a pretty detailed study of the issue but the upshot was the anodyzed spars probably have about half the "fatigue" life of non-anodyzed under HARD use, or 80 years instead of 160. But they are also pretty much impervious to corrosion. I had my spar parts anodyzed for $100, mainly because I was sick of priming at that point. But I built them myself. Wasn't hard, was fun. Is it worth the $825? Mine took me about 55 hours. You do the math. Randall Henderson RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: lars.frolander(at)mailbox.swipnet.se (Lars Frolander)
Subject: Re: RV-List Fixed? Well, Maybe...
please tell the jerks I WANT TO UNSUBSCIBE> >Well, I think I have found the problem with the RV-List but I can't make any >promises. There were some permissions set wrongg on a number of the system >files necessary for Majordomo to work correctly. So let's try this one more >time! > >If you have "unsubscribed" in recent past and have found yourself back on the >List, it is because I had to restore the address file from late January. >Please just unsubcribe yourself in the normal manner. Thanks! > >Matt Dralle >RV-List Admin. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov>
Subject: Landing Lights
REGARDING Landing Lights Painting the back side of your prop with a good flat black paint will cut-down the glare from a cowl mounted light. No one has mentioned it yet but part of the vibration is caused by the prop air pulse each time it passes in front of the cowl. Lights mounted in the cowl should be avoided. Elon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Terry Williams <terry(at)is.com>
Date: Feb 23, 1996
Subject: Re: ftp problems
It appears that the ftp archive is still down. See Matt's message below. tw Begin forwarded message: From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 16:48:52 -0800 In-Reply-To: Clem.Guillot(at)laitram.com "RV-List: ftp problems" (Feb 22, 6:19pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91) To: rv-list(at)netcom.com Subject: Re: RV-List: ftp problems rv-list(at)matronics.com >-------------- >I have tried to get the archives from matronics, but I get >permision denied when I try to change directory to /pub/business/matronics. >Has anyone else had this problem? > >Thanks Clem > >-------------- The ftp server (ftp.matronics.com) is undergoing a OS upgrade from Sun OS to Solaris. It appears that they havn't worked all the bugs out of the update yet... Matt Dralle -- ################################ +----------------------+ ##### ######## +--------------------------+ | ######## ############ | Matt G. Dralle | | #### #### #### #### #### | Matronics | | #### #### #### #### #### + | P.O. Box 347 | | #### #### #### #### #### | | Livermore, CA 94551 | | #### ##### #### #### | | 1+ 510-606-1001 Voice | + # # ## ##### ### ## # # # ### ## | | 1+ 510-606-6281 FAX | ## ## # # # # # # # ## # # # ## | | dralle(at)matronics.com | # # # #### # ### # # # ## # # ## | +--------------------------+ # # # # # # # ## # # # ### ## +-----------------------+ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov>
Subject: Stall Warning
REGARDING Stall Warning Dave Fried writes: "As soon as the stagnation point moves below your vane it will trigger the stall warning"... Very nice clarification, Dave. What do you think about tufting this area? How about marking some grid lines on the LE, tufting that area with yarn and recording with a video camera? OR is the area in question not line-of-sight for the video camera? Elon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mbaker(at)gate.net
Subject: Re: Metal vs. wood jigs
Date: Feb 23, 1996
> > Mickey: I'd listen to the wife. She obviously doesn't want you to cut a > hole in the ceiling:) I'd tell her what a great idea she had ie, you value > her input. Make her a "friend" of your project right off the bat and maybe > end up with a lot of support and a good helper to boot. Your "L" supports > should work fine. Bob Skinner RV-6 > You should take Warren Christpher's job! Excellent suggestion, Bob. That's what we'll do! Mickey ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Carb issues on RV's with air filters
Previous text deleted*** > I did some experimentation to see if his theroy was correct. > I flew the plane at cruse speed and looked at the EGT. > I then slowed the plane down by putting it into a climb. > Sure enough, below 120 mph, the EGT started dropping, indicating > the mixture was richer. > He also said in climb is is not as much of a problem due to the > lower climb speeds and the carb in the full power rich mode. > This also appears to be true based on watching the EGT at various > full power climb speeds. > I think Bob's theory also explains why the engine quits so easily > on hammer heads or any minor negative G load. I my C170, I can > do a reasonable hammerhead and the engine does not quit. In the > RV it wants to quit every time. I think there is less fuel in the > float bowl. Both C170 and the RV have the same carb model. > Bob says these carbs were designed > for 120 mph aircraft and the speeds the RV's fly are causing the > carb problems. > > I plan to get the details from Bob on what size to make the tab > and install one and see how it works. Will let you know. > Another mod which he also says helps some is to put a screen > over the entire carb inlet. He uses a special SS screen from > Detroit Diesel superchargers. I don't know how this helps exactly > except to disturb the air flow some and maybe it reduces the > ram pressure on the vent hole. > Herman Herman: On my 6 with a 150 hp engine, cylinders 1 & 2 run 50-75 degrees cooler than 3 & 4 at less than full throttle. My EGT's on 1 & 2 (light bars on a GEM) are considerably lower than 3 & 4 a partial throttle. At full power, EGT's and CHT's even out. CHT's are at 300 degrees at full throttle at 7,500'. It appears that partial throttle causes the opposite effect on our airplanes. You mention not having to pull the mixture out very far. If this is at 3,000' this makes sense. If this occurs at 7500-8000', it's a different story. You mention the mixture becoming lean as you went into a climb. You can have a drop in EGT's if you go too lean, can you not? As far as the prop stopping on the 4 and not on the 170, do you have metal props on both airplanes? I'm not picking on ya, mainly trying to solve my own performance problems. Bob Brasher is someone to pay attention to and I'm interested in what you find out in your testing. Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Props
Fellow Rver's: Is there anyone even remotely close to Nebraska that has a 150 hp RV-6 with a prop that provides good take off, climb and cruise performance so that I could fly to your airport and switch props for a test flight. The prop manufacture feels like he has reduced pitch considerably and that I need to look into the power producing ability of my engine. I've checked compression, intake system and mag timing and everything seems to check out OK. Don't know where else to look. It seems that if we switched props, we could tell fairly easily if it was an engine problem or prop problem. I'd even bring along some famous Nebraska T-bones. The prop bolts are 3/8". Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
Subject: Re: RV-Check List (fwd)
Date: Feb 23, 1996
I have a set of checklists that I did using MS Word. Ill see if I can send the .doc file to J Hovan to put on his www page or maybe I can get Word to spit out a txt file. Will check this wk end. Herman > > > >John: John O. said that he mailed a copy (snail mail) the other day and > >when I get it I'll type it in & send it out to the listers. With any luck, > >I'll be able to get my wife to type it and you'll get it a lot quicker. > >Bob Skinner RV-6 > > > Bob > Thanks, I'm looking forward to it. My second annual is due in March and > will feel a lot better by xchecking with someone else ck list to supplement > mine. > Thanks again. John D> > > Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Bennett" <elanora(at)zip.com.au>
Date: Feb 24, 1996
Subject: Re: Questions
Leo, The spike can worry other gear but most modern equipment is adequately protected. The key here is to to wire inductive loads separately to the bus keeping the cable separated from other cables. This assumes the normal circuit sequence of bus, fuse/breaker, switch, inductive load, airframe ground. The diodes are a fix where all else is not quite right. Peter Bennett Sydney Australia RV6 skinning fuselage > Peter, > Is the diode just protecting the switch or does the spike worry other things > connected to the bus? > Leo > > >If the switch is breaking the current to an inductive load (something > >with coils and iron like a motor or contactor), the current tries to keep > flowing > >as the switch contacts open. This causes a reverse voltage spike and arcing > >which may burn the contacts if the switch rating is marginal. The diode > > allows the spike to discharge into the bus before arcing can occur. > >If the switches are good quality and properly rated, don't bother > >with diodes. > >Peter Bennett > >Sydney Australia > >RV6 skinning fuselage > > > >>.......... I don't savvy the diode stuff............ > >> John D RV6 completed. > > > >> >I'm just starting to wire all the goodies into my 6A. Does anyone have > input > >> >that might save me a headache or two? Also, is the 35amp alternator from > >> >Van's sufficient, and reliable? I'm not putting a whole lot of power-hungry > >> >avionics in. Am I correct in assuming that a 35a breaker is correct for > this > >> >application? > >> > > >> >Also, what are the master and starter diodes for? They're in the Van's > >> >catalog, but I can't figure out what purpose they serve. Any input on the > >> >ISSPRO auto-type gauges? I notice the oil pressure gauge only goes to > >> >100psi. Is this enough? The oil temp gauge only goes down to 140deg, is > >> >that sufficient? > >> > > >> >Sorry if this sounds stupid, but my learning curve has just gone vertical > >> >here... > >> > > >> >-- Ed Bundy > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aileron Skin Dimpling
<199602232041.MAA01642(at)amelia.edt.com>
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: Jack Abell <abell(at)rand.org>
Randall Henderson cites Art Chard's idea for dimpling the aileron skin that might be modified as follows: Use the shaft from the Avery bench-style dimpling and riveting tool with a female dimpling die in it and a hammer and backplate. You wouldn't even need a rivet set that accommodates a dimpling die. A rivet gun might be overkill anyway. An even better idea might be to use a shorter shaft such as the one that comes with a pneumatic squeezer. That would require less bending of the skin. Jack Abell RV-6A Elevator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Bennett" <elanora(at)zip.com.au>
Date: Feb 24, 1996
Subject: Re: Phlogiston spars
> Are the phlogiston spars worth the extra $825? Maybe someone could give me > some insight into this. How much time does it actually save? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Van's say it saves about 40 hours. That means about 100 hours for me. -------------------------------------------------------------------- > I work where > we have alot of our components annodized before use. This results in the > material becoming harder and more brittle. Does this have any affect on > these spars? ------------------------------------------------------------------- Van discussed this in the RVator probably three years back. Theoretically the fatigue life is reduced to something like 80 years if you fly 150 hours of aerobatics a year. A primed spar is likely to fail from corrosion well before this. -------------------------------------------------------------------- > I know that the corrosion is almost nil with components that > have been annodized. I have seen 6061 that has been annodized hold up to > daily submersion in seawater for years without any corrosion. > > Dan Shades RV-4 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yes, I have the Phlogiston spar. Even with the greater confidence I have now than when I started, I'd probably do it again. Peter Bennett Sydney Australia RV6 skinning fuselage ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
Subject: Corroded Alu (fwd)
Date: Feb 23, 1996
The 225S is just the phosphoric acid etch. It should help kill any corrosion. You would also want to apply the 226S (alodine) as well to help prevent any more corrosion befor you prime it. On the steel parts, a stronger acid etch can be used, called Metal Conditioner I think. It is suppose to neutralize the rust. Similar product is 'Navel Jelly' that you can find at WalMart or most any paint store. Some primers are made to work on rusty metal. RustOlium has one called 'rusty metal primer'. However on aircraft parts, I think you should get all the rust off first. Using a small sand blaster would be the easiest, given the small amount of steel parts on a RV. I have used a small Sears sand blaster to clean up motor mounts, etc. You can choose different abrasives depending one how deep the rust is. Use the as mild of an abrasive as you can, such as glass beads or fine sand. Herman > > Most of the priming Q&As have centered around corrosion PREVENTION. > > As I've mentioned, I bought an old unfinished RV3. What I stupidly > mistook for just dirt was really corrosion! I've been told I need to > sand the material down till all blak spots are gone. I've tried > working with the Duponts 225S cleaner (I can't read the washed out > instructions on bottle). My question is this: will the 225S bind with > and stop corrosion so I don't have to sand down till all black spots > are gone? Or is there some other treatment/primer that will? (Talking > about the aluminum parts here -- for steel I believe rustolium (SP?) or > such binds with the rust and stops it.) I don't want to weaken the > material more than neccesary by sanding it too thin if there is some > way to stop further corrosion in the pits. > > Any advice (short of "shrow away the kit and buy a new one") is > welcome. Especially if it'll shorten the corrosion "clean-up" work. > > Finn > -- -------------------------------------------------------- *NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my own and are independent of my employer. Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831 MS: 9530 fax: 512-838-1801 mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Bennett" <elanora(at)zip.com.au>
Date: Feb 24, 1996
Subject: Re: Stall Warning Device
> The Australian authorities require a stall warning device on my 6A, so I > have rigged up a Cherry microswitch activated by a small hinged stainless > steel vane, which will poke thru a small slot in the leading edge, just > like a Piper Cherokee or Arrow. > > Does anyone have any idea where the vane should be in relation to the > chord line, or any other reference point, so it will trip the switch at 5 > knots above the stall. > > The switch will activate one of the alarm circuits built into the Rocky > Mountain engine monitor. > > > Graham Taylor > RV-6A - F/Fwd complete, a few small jobs before final plumbing, wiring, etc. > Graham, I have made a similar Cherokee style device. I made the bold assumption that the rib form tooling holes are on or parallel to the chord line. From memory, the leading edge is the circumference of a circle whose centre is 1" above the tooling holes. I drew a line through this centre parallel to the tooling hole line, then located the stall warning tab hinge point on this line. From this hinge point, I drew a line forward and angled down 15 degrees. I cut the hole in the leading edge where this line came through. Therefore the tab will be horizontal when the wing is at 15 degrees angle of attack. If this is not quite right, I will bend the tab. BTW, have you checked the force necessary to activate the microswitch? I made an optical device to ensure it would operate at 40 kt. Do you plan to get Reg 35 approval? Peter Bennett Sydney Australia RV6 skinning fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
Date: Feb 23, 1996
Subject: Re: Phlogiston spars
>Dan, > >I finished my spars in 40-45 hours, one of the few places on the RV where I >can say I worked for ~$20/hour. It is relatively simple - since all the >holes are drilled. All you do is taper the flange strips (about a day and 2 >band saw blades), deburr everything, prime and rivet. There are at least 5 >different ways you can rivet the spars (my method is on John Hovan's web >site -w/pictures). >I think, if you trying to speed up your progress (at the expense of the >educational portion of the project) you will get quite a bang for your buck >out the Steve Barnard's Wing Kit (but I think you need the Phlogiston spars >for that). > >rich -6a skinning the fuse > >======================================================================= >Rich Klee 4564 Chicago Ave. >rich_klee(at)ccm.fm.intel.com Fair Oaks, CA 95628 >(916) 863-1927 (will accept faxes) >======================================================================= > > > >Are the phlogiston spars worth the extra $825? Maybe someone could give me >some insight into this. How much time does it actually save? I work where >we have alot of our components annodized before use. This results in the >material becoming harder and more brittle. Does this have any affect on >these spars? I know that the corrosion is almost nil with components that >have been annodized. I have seen 6061 that has been annodized hold up to >daily submersion in seawater for years without any corrosion. > >Dan Shades RV-4 > > I used the Steve Barnard's Wing Kit. There is no requirement to use the Phlogiston spar. The wing kit is very complete and cuts down on the fabrication of a lot of parts. In my case, I think the quality of his parts is higher than if I would have made them but I am sure if I did make them they would be perfectly servicable. Another example of builders choice. Time vs money vs education. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892 2300 Oakmont Way #205 Fax: 541-342-5492 Eugene, Oregon 97401 email: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
Date: Feb 23, 1996
Subject: Autopilots
Has anyone checked out the autopilots and fuel injection systems availible through Empire Development? Check out the home page at http://user.aol.com/chanik/ed. The three axis autopilot is selling for $700. Sounds to good to be true. Here is the discription: The SE5b is a tri-axis trim-tab autopilot, implementing pitch and roll control with 1/4-scale servo motors and relying, for its input, on a combination ofGPS or Loran receiver for heading/bearing/XTE information, a solid-state pressure sensor for altitude data and dual tilt sensors for improved system response. The unit operates in any of these three modes: I) Conventional electric trim control (default), via a push-button quad. II) Match bearing, when the unit adjusts roll trim in order to track heading to way-point bearing. III) Hold heading, when the unit tracks to maintain the current heading. In either mode II or III, the unit holds pressure altitude to that which was recorded when the unit was engaged. The SE5b can read NMEA-0183b format from the GPS/Loran and will hold +/-2deg on heading and +/-50ft on altitude. The unit draws 2 Amps, and includes servo reversing and an LED mode/status indicator. This system is intended for day-VFR use only. Cost is $699.00 complete with two trim servos, connection hardware, LED mode indicator and 4 micro push-button switches. (The 2-axis version is $599.00 with one servo.) The unit even has provisions to accept future upgrades to the flight control software. High-Torque servos for direct connection to control linkages are available for an additional $30 per axis. There is a 60-day money-back guarantee as well as a 1-year warranty. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892 2300 Oakmont Way #205 Fax: 541-342-5492 Eugene, Oregon 97401 email: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4BILDR(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 23, 1996
Subject: Re: Phlogiston spars
Dan, It is worth every cent! As for the time savings, Van's gives a rough estimate in the manual somewhere. The brittleness is not a factor until some ridiculous time afterward (you will not live that long). The best thing about the spar is that there are no mistakes made and if one is made it is there responsibility to correct. Best of luck, Mike, RV-4 working on fuse. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino)
Subject: Re: Fuel Injection vs. Normal Aspiration
I have had some limited experience with fuel injection. I have found that as long as you can get enough fuel pressure, starting is not a problem. The only time you usually will have a problem is on hot days after short stops. Using proper starting techniques and good fuel line routing is a must. Also remember that IFR is not the only time you can get carb ice. Clear days with the right conditions can be conducive to the formation of carb ice. Jim Cimino CFII RV-4 sn 4079 possibly the RV-8 > >I have listened with great interest to anecdotal information about the >vagaries of fuel injection systems. I've looked at literature on the >Ellison and Airflow Performance systems but don't feel I have enough >information to make a sensible choice. As I understand it, fuel injection >provides a modest increase in effective horsepower at mid-range power >settings, but not at max power. It is virtually immune to icing and will >sustain fuel-air flow inverted. I have also heard that fuel injected >engines are more difficult to start and injection systems can be >troublesome and difficult to troubleshoot. My aerobatics will be limited >to positive-G maneuvers. I will fly IFR but not in icing conditions. > >Just two days ago I ordered my fuselage and finishing kits, an O-360-A1A, >and c/s prop. I indicated on my order an Ellison installation. I'm >inclined to change it, but I'm really on the fence. I would appreciate >hearing anyone's thoughts about this important choice, any experiences you >have had, or references I might find that would help me shed some >additional light on the issue. > >Thanks. > >Jack Abell >RV-6A Elevator > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: Lewis <lewisjw(at)hqsocom.af.mil>
From: lewisjw
Subject: Ford 3.8 engine On 22 Feb 96, Vern Lemasters wrote: ...installing Ford 3.8...appreciate, advice etc...~ Anyone working on an auto engine installation can glean a tremendous amount of info and advice from Richard Finch's 1991 book, "Converting Auto Engines for Experimental Aircraft". He is one engineer who has thought this issue through very carefully.~ Order from Finch, PO Box 3946, Santa Barbara, CA 93130 $22 pp (USA)~ Also look for an article by Finch in the April KITPLANES featuring the Belted Air Power's new Chevy 4.3 for RV6s --- as a complete, ready to bolt on package!~ Joe Lewis, RV6 Empennage on the jig, Tampa Bay, FL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen )
Subject: Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question
That doesn't sound right. If the antenna and radio are correctly matched and you're using the correct impedance coax (e.g. 50 ohms), then the shorter the better (less loss). Anyone else who's second that? Finn You wrote: > >By the way... did you know you are not suppose to shorten the coax supplied >with the antenna, My avionics shop made a point of telling me it is tuned to >lenght. >They had me wind it up under the floor and secure it. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Props
>Fellow Rver's: Is there anyone even remotely close to Nebraska that has a >150 hp RV-6 with a prop that provides good take off, climb and cruise >performance so that I could fly to your airport and switch props for a test >flight. The prop manufacture feels like he has reduced pitch considerably >and that I need to look into the power producing ability of my engine. I've >checked compression, intake system and mag timing and everything seems to >check out OK. Don't know where else to look. It seems that if we switched >props, we could tell fairly easily if it was an engine problem or prop >problem. I'd even bring along some famous Nebraska T-bones. The prop bolts >are 3/8". >Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 > Bob, If no one closer responds, try me. I'm 65 miles sw of FT WORTH TX. Admittedly, a long way from Neb. Be warned, mine is a metal prop. I'm not sure what the normal is, but we can talk about what my 6 does and start from there. I assume that you have run a static test on it? Somewhere I'v seen numbers of what static should be, and that is the way I checked mine. I'm wanting to say that static should be about 2450rpm, but don't hold my feet to the fire on that. I believe you said about 650 fpm climb, that does sound low. The other day I had a pass, full fuel, oat 45 degrees and climbed at 115 with 1800fpm. The vvi may be off, but it is reasonably close, I timed it during my flyoff and it was accurate. Also, have you used a prop tach to ck your rpm? I'm on my 3rd tach, they have been as much as 450 off! Two new ones were the worst. I now have one from a parted out wreck, it is ONLY 125 off! But the most accurate one I've found. I invested in a Prop Tach and use it on and off. If I build again, I'd start with an elect. unit. Let me know. John D RV6 N61764 completed ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen )
Subject: Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question
If the GS is really at 330MHz then you'd have a 3/4 wavelength antenna, using an VOR (110MHz) 1/4 wavelength antenna. Where's the mismatch in that? Wouldn't that give you better gain (except for the splitter loss)? Finn You wrote: > Yes, you could use a VOR antenna to receive glideslope >signals. HOWEVER, you would be working with a de-tuned antenna. >Performance will be suboptimal. In a receive-only situation (like the >glideslope receiver) you can get away with this if you are willing to >live with the performance penalty. With a *transmitter*, this is >strictly a no-no. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Feb 23, 1996
Subject: Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question
Since I started this thread I saw my avionics shop wizard at the airport today, so I asked him again. He says, again, that the coax supplied with the antenna should not be cut. It is tuned (as in wavelength) to the antenna. All I know is that it works well. Thats good enough for me. Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying >That doesn't sound right. If the antenna and radio are correctly >matched and you're using the correct impedance coax (e.g. 50 ohms), >then the shorter the better (less loss). >Anyone else who's second that? > > >Finn > > >You wrote: >> >>By the way... did you know you are not suppose to shorten the coax >supplied >>with the antenna, My avionics shop made a point of telling me it is >tuned to >>lenght. >>They had me wind it up under the floor and secure it. >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bobveit(at)interserv.com
Date: Feb 23, 1996
Subject: Re: Landing lights
I am interested in your flasher. You can send info to Bob Veit, Rt 2 Box 2693 Bartlesville, OK 74006-9737 or if it is emailable to Bobveit(at)interserv.com Thanks in advance. Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 24, 1996
Subject: Re: Aileron Skin Dimpling
> How do you dimple the center aileron top skin for the row of rivets >joining the skin to the spar? The C-tool does not reach the center five >rivet holes from either side. No other tool I have will dimple this >section and I don't like the idea of bending the aileron leading edge flat >to use the C-tool. Ahhh, grasshopper, you want the ancient RV secret eh? First, another set of hands helps a lot. Use the C-tool, and come at it from the leading edge with the skin upside-down. Get the bottom L.E. "flap" of skin past the tools ram and let the ram down slightly to keep the skin there. Gently pull the skin back until the maile die pops into the hole, while holding the main portion of the bottom skin out of the way. Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 24, 1996
Subject: Re: Metal vs. wood jigs
>Is this what folks are doing or should I just cut a 3x6" hole in the >ceiling to get a firm fix on the rafter? There are two very good reasons for not cutting the hole. One, it isn't necessary. Lag bolting it to the rafter will provide plenty of strength. The items the jig will be holding don't weigh that much. Two, and most importantly, you will give your wife MANY reasons to leave you during this project; don't start before you open the first box.... :) -- Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 24, 1996
Subject: Re: Spins in RV's
>I have a copy of the tape and if the pilot ok's it I could duplicate it for >those that want to see this. Let me know. > Me! Me! Thanks, Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 24, 1996
Subject: Re: Aileron Skin Dimpling
I took one of my bucking bars and drilled a hole to accept the female dimple die and then used an adaptor for my rivet gun to hold the male die. Using the lowest pressure that would run the gun and a careful trigger finger, I tap tap tapped the dimples in places that I could not reach any other way. This worked great. Jim Cone jamescone(at)aol.com Fitting cowl ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 24, 1996
From: kightdm(at)carol.net (Danny Kight)
Subject: Re: Metal vs. wood jigs
.....>There's a question at the bottom of this page, I promise! > >My wife discovered this afternoon that I planned to knock holes in the >garage ceiling. She suggested that I lag bolt the top of the upright >to a rafter rather than going through with the entire thing. I could >use a two L supports and cut the beam flush with the ceiling. > >Is this what folks are doing or should I just cut a 3x6" hole in the >ceiling to get a firm fix on the rafter? Mickey, I used a wooden jig to build my Sonerai, (currently flying @ 230 hours) and I just finished my RV-6 empennage on one with good results. I screwed a 2 foot long 2x4 to the ceiling in my garage using 6" wood screws. (One over each upright) Locate this directly under and parallel to a rafter. On the concrete floor of the garage, I GLUED 2 foot 2x4s directly under the ones on the ceiling. Use a plumb bob. I used the ADHESIVE type of silicon caulk in a caulk gun for this. It is available at Home Depot, Wal-Mart, etc. I then cut the uprights to fit between the upper and lower 2x4s. Attach the uprights with scrap 2x4 pieces scabbed over the joints. This makes a very sturdy jig, and when you are done, you can pry the 2x4s off the floor, leaving a very faint stain, and unscrew the 2x4s from the ceiling. I have a blown ceiling in the garage, and it didn't even mess that up. There are just a few screw holes which could be easily puttied in. Good luck, Danny Kight kightdm(at)carol.net RV-6 finished empennage, starting wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: Props
>Fellow Rver's: Is there anyone even remotely close to Nebraska that has a >150 hp RV-6 with a prop that provides good take off, climb and cruise >performance so that I could fly to your airport and switch props for a test >flight. The prop manufacture feels like he has reduced pitch considerably >and that I need to look into the power producing ability of my engine. I've >checked compression, intake system and mag timing and everything seems to >check out OK. Don't know where else to look. It seems that if we switched >props, we could tell fairly easily if it was an engine problem or prop >problem. I'd even bring along some famous Nebraska T-bones. The prop bolts >are 3/8". >Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 > How close is Seattle to Nebraska in your opinion?? I have an RV-6 with a 150 HP E2A and use a 68 x 69 clone of the Pacesetter 200. It is what I would consider a 'cruise' prop. With a gross weight of about 1500 #'s I'm off the ground in about 600 feet at sea level and climb at about 1200 to 1400 fpm. I can cruise at 180 MPH and top out at about 195 MPH. If you want to try out my prop feel free to fly out to Paine field in Everett; be sure to bring at least one or two of those T-bones. I'll provide the King Salmon grilled on my barbarque using my 'special sauce'. Or, have you ever had fresh Olympia oysters picked off the beach and cooked in their own juice over a bed of coals? Or, maybe Razor Clams would better suit you. Yup, Puget Sound does have good munchies. But, we do have too much rain, floods, fog and cloudy weather. 'Marginal VFR' in Western Washington is when you need to use your portable GPS to find the airport. If you can see the tower it's ok to fly. John Ammeter ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com Seattle WA, USA RV-6 N16JA Flying 5 years ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Brown" <danb(at)a.crl.com>
Date: Feb 23, 1996
Subject: Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question
> From: finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen ) > That doesn't sound right. If the antenna and radio are correctly > matched and you're using the correct impedance coax (e.g. 50 ohms), > then the shorter the better (less loss). > Anyone else who's second that? I will. If everything is matched properly, the feedline shouldn't be radiating, and its length shouldn't effect the efficiency of the antenna. I have seen suggestions that changing the length will somehow rotate the radiation pattern of the antenna, but even that seems odd. If the length of the feedline _is_ particularly important, I'm surprised that that fact doesn't appear somewhere on the amateur radio exams (at least not through Advanced). -- Dan Brown, KE6MKS, danb(at)a.crl.com Don't tread on me. E-Mail may be published at my discretion. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 1996
From: n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen)
Subject: Pitot & Quadrant
To the RV Net: Four questions: 1. Does anyone have a source or idea of how to make or buy a set of nice little fittings for the pitot static lines where they come out the rear of the fuselage? (I think that a big pop-rivet is a bit Mickey-Mouse). I have searched hardware stores but found nothing exactly right. 2. I am building a -4. Could someone please tell me the pros/cons of using a throttle quadrant with levers versus using push pull cables. 3. I will use a wood prop. If I buy a quadrant, should I use two or three levers? Does anyone use the third lever for carb heat? If so, how do you like that? 4. I think I would prefer my throttle on the right side but most RV-4s seem to have it on the left. If I put it on the right, is that a big mistake? Thanks for your input, Peter B. Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com ______________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 1996
From: Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com>
Subject: Re: Metal vs. wood jigs
I built a metal jig (RV-4) out of 4" channel for a cost of $180. BTW - if anyone wants to borrow it in the Albuquerque area you are more than welcome. This thing is heavy, straight, and IMHO much easier assemble than a wood jig although I built my first RV-4 on a wood jig (6th airplane off it) and it did just fine. Dan Boudro RV-4 N9167Z Albuquerque, NM On 21 Feb 1996, Bob Kutschke wrote: > I'm getting close to ordering the fuselage kit from Van's and am beginning to > wonder about jig construction. Is the wood jig decribed in the plans sufficient > enough to build a plane that doesn't fly sideways? > > I have gotten some info from Stephen Frey on the metal jigs he sells/rents, but > $1000+ seems like an awful lot. Unless of course a metal jig is so much better > than a wood jig. Does anyone have any experience with the Frey metal jig? Or > better yet, does anyone have one they would like to sell? > > If using a wood jig, are there any details not in the plans that might save me > any headaches? What is the best type of lumber for construction? > > BTW: This is my first visit to the RV-List. My name is Bob Kutschke. I am > currently building an RV-6A (wings almost done). I live in Birmingham, AL, so > if anyone is in the area with an RV project, I'd love a chance to take a peek. > > Bob Kutschke > 73244.1501(at)compuserve.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 24, 1996
From: Graham Taylor <gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au>
Subject: Stall Warning Device
THanks to all those who have offered advice. I have made a full size template of the nose rib, out of stiff card, and will do the rounds of the strip tomorrow, checking out Pipers in particular. As long as I make provision for an adjustment up or down, I should be able to get exactly the amount of warning I want. I wouldn't be able to do a tuft job to determine the separation point, as the lower edge of the leading edge wouldn't be visable. The Cherry microswitch came from a photcopier which was being stripped. I have made up a balance beam to measure the pressure at which a Cherokee switch trips - it was about 11 grams - very light. The photocopier switch is even a shade lighter, but I can't see that will matter. The switch itself is quite small : 1 1/16" long, 5/8" deep, and 13/32" thick. I've made up a frame out of scrap 32 thou aluminium. The switch bolts to the frame using small bolts and nylock nuts I bought from the local hobby shop, plus Locktite for extra security. The stainless steel vane is cut out of a scrap of 40 thou. With the current frame, switch position and vane pivot point, a movement of about 1/4" will trip the switch - about the same as a Cherokee. The alarm circuit in the Rocky Mountain monitor draws a miniscule current, so I don't have to worry about arcing the switch, but if you intend to directly trigger a large buzzer/light you might want to make sure the switch is rated for DC. By the way, Aircraft Spruce sells the REAL THING for US$1128.40, and the switch alone for $544.40. Wow!! Cheers, Graham Taylor gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 24, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question
>That doesn't sound right. If the antenna and radio are correctly >matched and you're using the correct impedance coax (e.g. 50 ohms), >then the shorter the better (less loss). >Anyone else who's second that? > > >Finn > Finn, I know zilch about this stuff, but there have been many articles by experts, and they say that the connector has to be not only the right impedence, but then there is something about a 'standing wave' reflector or something. They recommend you get a 'swr' meter and find the right length for the coax. For all I know, this is to get 1/2 of 1 percent increase, or it may be to get 99 percent increase. An article in Sport Planes or Kit Planes a while back covered this very well. I know the formula they gave for the beginning lengths worked for me. I can dig the article out if any one is interested. It wasn't just the resistance. And I was like you, figured the shorter the better. The articles convince me otherwise. Sort of like the lenght of the ant, has a relation to the freq. John D RV6 N61764 completed. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Feb 24, 1996
Subject: lycoming srevice letter 0A524 7 Feb 1996
To all: Got the above mandatory service letter from lycoming this week. Those of you that are not registered with the feds or lycoming won't be on the mailing list so you might want to check with someone thats got it. I'd type it, but it's 4 pages long and I have a few other things to do today. :-) Pertains to oil pump impellers, both sintered iron and aluminum, in a broad range of engines. I think this is a rehash of an older bulletin that covers older engines, but if you are in the bilding stage, now is the time to check. Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Feb 24, 1996
Subject: Re: Pitot & Quadrant
>To the RV Net: > >Four questions: > >1. Does anyone have a source or idea of how to make or buy a set of >nice little fittings for the pitot static lines where they come out the >rear of the fuselage? (I think that a big pop-rivet is a bit >Mickey-Mouse). I have searched hardware stores but found nothing >exactly right. > >2. I am building a -4. Could someone please tell me the pros/cons of >using a throttle quadrant with levers versus using push pull cables. > >3. I will use a wood prop. If I buy a quadrant, should I use two or >three levers? Does anyone use the third lever for carb heat? If so, >how do you like that? > >4. I think I would prefer my throttle on the right side but most RV-4s >seem to have it on the left. If I put it on the right, is that a big >mistake? > >Thanks for your input, Peter B. Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com >______________________________________________________________ > Peter: 1. Yea ok the pop rivet in my airplane does look a little mickey mouse, but it works. Cleaveland Aircraft tool has nice machined static ports. If I did it again I'd use those. Located in Boone Iowa. Somebody will post the number I'm sure. Say Hi to Buz @ D.J. for me. (the owners and RV-4 builders) 2. Quadrants are compact, work well, we don't have as much room as a 6 and you don't have anybody sitting next to you that has to reach them. Easier to rig rear seat controls to. 3. Carb Heat on the quadrant works fine. It's your, airplane do whatever you want. I incorporated the trim lever into mine and like it alot. Alot of people change the quadrants around to fit their needs. I modified one into a 4 lever with throttle, mixture, prop, & trim. Carb heat is on the 403 bulkhead. I modified a stock quadrant to narrow it and it works great. Jim Winings, in Indianapolis built one from scratch, It is the best quadtrant I've ever seen. 4. You are probably use to certified side by side seating with the controls centered. Again. It's yours, do whatever you want. I don't know why centerline seated aircraft use lefthand quadrants, but it's been that way forever I guess. Certainly is comfortable once you fly it for awhile. Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 24, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Pitot & Quadrant
A>1. Does anyone have a source or idea of how to make or buy a set of >nice little fittings for the pitot static lines where they come out the >rear of the fuselage? (I think that a big pop-rivet is a bit >Mickey-Mouse). I have searched hardware stores but found nothing >exactly right. > Cleavland Aircraft tools has two nice looking static port fittings for $ 21.00. Kind of pricey, though. Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 24, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Props
A>How close is Seattle to Nebraska in your opinion?? I have an RV-6 with a >150 HP E2A and use a 68 x 69 clone of the Pacesetter 200. It is what I >would consider a 'cruise' prop. With a gross weight of about 1500 #'s I'm >off the ground in about 600 feet at sea level and climb at about 1200 to >1400 fpm. I can cruise at 180 MPH and top out at about 195 MPH. > >If you want to try out my prop feel free to fly out to Paine field in >Everett; be sure to bring at least one or two of those T-bones. I'll >provide the King Salmon grilled on my barbarque using my 'special sauce'. >Or, have you ever had fresh Olympia oysters picked off the beach and cooked >in their own juice over a bed of coals? Or, maybe Razor Clams would better >suit you. Yup, Puget Sound does have good munchies. But, we do have too >much rain, floods, fog and cloudy weather. > >'Marginal VFR' in Western Washington is when you need to use your portable >GPS to find the airport. If you can see the tower it's ok to fly. > > >John Ammeter >ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com >Seattle WA, USA >RV-6 N16JA >Flying 5 years > John: How close is Nebraska to Seattle? The other side of the world. I agree about the weather. I went to Van's homecoming last fall and couldn't believe that you guys actully fly in that stuff. The locals said it was great weather. I appreciate your kind offer but if we ate all that stuff, I'd never get my RV off the ground. Sounds good enough, you never know, I might make the trip. First, I'll try to find something a little closer. Thanks for the offer. Bob Skinner ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 24, 1996
From: Espen Dahl <dahl(at)sn.no>
Subject: Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question
>That doesn't sound right. If the antenna and radio are correctly >matched and you're using the correct impedance coax (e.g. 50 ohms), >then the shorter the better (less loss). >Anyone else who's second that? > > >Finn > Finn! Well... in many applications dealing with hf/VHF/UHF you also have to keep reflections under control. Espen Dahl -- - Espen Dahl ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 24, 1996
Subject: Re: Phlogiston spars
>Are the phlogiston spars worth the extra $825? Maybe someone could give me >some insight into this. How much time does it actually save? I work where >we have alot of our components annodized before use. This results in the >material becoming harder and more brittle. Does this have any affect on >these spars? I know that the corrosion is almost nil with components that >have been annodized. I have seen 6061 that has been annodized hold up to >daily submersion in seawater for years without any corrosion. > I imagine you'll get a mountain of replies on this, but here's my 2 cents. The spars are probably the most feared and misunderstood part of the entire kit. They ARE arguably the most important piece of the airplane and their construction should be done with utmost care. That being said, however, it isn't that tough. If you've built the rest of the airplane up to this point you certainly have the skill to build the spars. I wrestled with the same question, as has everyone else that ever built an RV. After much reading and talking with builders I decided to build my own. The difficulty is amazingly small when you've built yourself up to expecting a monumental project. Get a copy of the Orndorff video (It really helps to see everything before and after each step, and the video is very well done here) and watch it a couple of times. Then jump in. It took me about 50 hours to do both spars and it wasn't difficult at all. Scary at first, but a big rivet is no harder to buck than a #3. The money IMHO, can be better spent on $50 cheeseburgers :) There is an article in an old RVator about anodizing. It does decrease the fatigue life by a factor of 2, so the spars will only last 100 years instead of 200... -- Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 24, 1996
Subject: Re: Autopilots
>The SE5b is a tri-axis trim-tab autopilot, implementing pitch and roll >control with 1/4-scale servo motors and relying, for its input, on a >combination ofGPS or Loran receiver for heading/bearing/XTE information, a Wow. It sure does sound too good to be true. I wonder if anyone has tried this? - Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 24, 1996
From: jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com (Michael McGee)
Subject: Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question
>> From: finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen ) > >> That doesn't sound right. If the antenna and radio are correctly >> matched and you're using the correct impedance coax (e.g. 50 ohms), >> then the shorter the better (less loss). >> Anyone else who's second that? > > I will. If everything is matched properly, the feedline shouldn't >be radiating, and its length shouldn't effect the efficiency of the >antenna. I have seen suggestions that changing the length will >somehow rotate the radiation pattern of the antenna, but even that >seems odd. If the length of the feedline _is_ particularly >important, I'm surprised that that fact doesn't appear somewhere on >the amateur radio exams (at least not through Advanced). >-- >Dan Brown, KE6MKS, danb(at)a.crl.com >Don't tread on me. >E-Mail may be published at my discretion. > > Keep in mind a couple of things: 1. By nature (or design) coax does not radiate like an antenna does. It's energy losses (from impedence) are a product of two conductors side by side. 2. Impedance is not the same as resistance. The antenna circuit is ac not dc, so the optimum or max power output is frequency dependant. The coax length is a part of the tuning of that circuit. If you change the length, peak power output will likely be somewhere other than the VHF-aircraft frequency range where we want to be. So... Coil the coax up like we are told to do, -and- coil it up as far forward as possible for that extra little fraction of improved c.g It's the little details... Blue skies Mike McGee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Terry Williams <terry(at)ouijibo.netcom.com>
Date: Feb 24, 1996
Subject: Re: Props
Man.... Forget the prop. I'm on my way for the food!=20 tw Begin forwarded message: Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 22:01:19 -0800 From: ammeterj.seanet.com!ammeterj(at)matronics.com (John Ammeter) Subject: Re: RV-List: Props >Fellow Rver's: Is there anyone even remotely close to Nebraska = that has a >150 hp RV-6 with a prop that provides good take off, climb and = cruise >performance so that I could fly to your airport and switch props = for a test >flight. The prop manufacture feels like he has reduced pitch = considerably >and that I need to look into the power producing ability of my = engine. I've >checked compression, intake system and mag timing and everything = seems to >check out OK. Don't know where else to look. It seems that if = we switched >props, we could tell fairly easily if it was an engine problem or = prop >problem. I'd even bring along some famous Nebraska T-bones. The = prop bolts >are 3/8". >Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 > How close is Seattle to Nebraska in your opinion?? I have an RV-6 = with a 150 HP E2A and use a 68 x 69 clone of the Pacesetter 200. It is = what I would consider a 'cruise' prop. With a gross weight of about 1500 = #'s I'm off the ground in about 600 feet at sea level and climb at about = 1200 to 1400 fpm. I can cruise at 180 MPH and top out at about 195 MPH. If you want to try out my prop feel free to fly out to Paine field = in Everett; be sure to bring at least one or two of those T-bones. = I'll provide the King Salmon grilled on my barbarque using my 'special = sauce'. Or, have you ever had fresh Olympia oysters picked off the beach = and cooked in their own juice over a bed of coals? Or, maybe Razor Clams = would better suit you. Yup, Puget Sound does have good munchies. But, we do = have too much rain, floods, fog and cloudy weather. =20 'Marginal VFR' in Western Washington is when you need to use your = portable GPS to find the airport. If you can see the tower it's ok to fly. =20 John Ammeter ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com Seattle WA, USA RV-6 N16JA Flying 5 years ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Feb 24, 1996
Subject: Re: The RVSEARCH ftp site
>-------------- >BF, > >It appears that Intellinet does not allow anonymous ftp to >everyone. PPP connections from home typically aren't identified in >DNS. So, those connections are not accepted by the Intellinet ftp >server (see below). The Matronics ftp site is open to anyone. Would >you be willing to upload your search engine to Matt's site? It would >allow those using Netscape (or any PPP connection) from home could >get to your very helpful program. > >Just a thought. Thanks. > >tw >-------------- Terry et al, Mr. Gibbion's excellent search engine *is* available at the Matronics FTP site. Look under "/pub/business/matronics/RV_Search". As an aside, I would strongly urge your company to DNS register *all* of the ports on any terminal server that the have connected to the Internet. There are many WWW and FTP sites that will not respond unless the incoming IP address is registered. Tell your network manager that the terminal server installation is not done until the addresses are registered! ;-) Matt Dralle RV-List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 24, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: Spins in RV's
> >>I have a copy of the tape and if the pilot ok's it I could duplicate it for >>those that want to see this. Let me know. >> >Me! Me! >Thanks, >Ed Bundy > > > Guess I'll have to crank up my two VCR's and make some copies. I talked to the pilot/photographer last night. His name is Wes Schierman. He has an RV-4 and is one of the original members of the 'Blackjack Squadron'. If you'll look in Van's 1996 calendar at the picture for 'January' you'll see Wes in N13HA. On the tape the two voices you hear for the first part of the tape are Wes and Dick Bentley (in N81RB); later Jeff Bentley, Dick's son, comes up and joins them. The tape shows spins both right and left, 2 to 4 turns, positive input to stop the spin and the 'just turn loose of everything' method of stopping the spin. The tape is about 15 minutes long and you see lots of ground rotating round and round. The cost of the tape and shipping should be about $5.00 in USD. That is, of course, if it is shipped to the US or Canada. Those of you in Australia and such probably know more than me what shipping costs to there would be. Send me your address and I'll get a tape off to you. John ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 24, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: Metal vs. wood jigs
> >>Is this what folks are doing or should I just cut a 3x6" hole in the >>ceiling to get a firm fix on the rafter? > >There are two very good reasons for not cutting the hole. One, it isn't >necessary. Lag bolting it to the rafter will provide plenty of strength. > The items the jig will be holding don't weigh that much. Two, and most >importantly, you will give your wife MANY reasons to leave you during this >project; don't start before you open the first box.... :) > >-- Ed Bundy > Let me add my $.02 worth to this. I think I have a rare jewell for a wife; after all, not many women would put up with some of my projects/ideas. With that in mind, whenever I was in the garage building and she wanted something I would, almost, literally drop everything and 'yes dear' my way up the stairs. On the weekend one day was 'mine' and one day was 'hers'. She would usually have a few projects for me to do on 'her' day but my day was *mine*. I worked on the RV from 4:00 when I got home from work until about 6:30 when she got home. I'd go upstairs, talk to her, plan dinner, and then, gracefully, sneak back to my RV. This allowed me about 20 to 25 hours of building time a week. We're still married (24 years now) and I have a completed RV. Believe me, an RV costs enough as it is. If you were to add in the costs of child support, separate households, all those damn lawyers, etc, it is much easier to 'Yes Dear' as much as you can. John Ammeter ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com Seattle WA, USA RV-6 N16JA Flying 5 years ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 24, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: Pitot & Quadrant
>To the RV Net: > >Four questions: > >1. Does anyone have a source or idea of how to make or buy a set of >nice little fittings for the pitot static lines where they come out the >rear of the fuselage? (I think that a big pop-rivet is a bit >Mickey-Mouse). I have searched hardware stores but found nothing >exactly right. > Peter, Look on page 251 of the Spruce catalog ('95 issue). They sell a static port fitting. I used it on my RV and it does look a little more finished than the rivet. But, the rivet works just fine and costs much less. AS's static port is $15.50 plus shipping which could add up to almost $20.00. John Ammeter ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com Seattle WA, USA RV-6 N16JA Flying 5 years ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Brown" <danb(at)a.crl.com>
Date: Feb 24, 1996
Subject: Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question
> From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com> > then there is something about a 'standing wave' reflector or something. They > recommend you get a 'swr' meter and find the right length for the coax. For An SWR meter is used to tune the antenna properly, and is only applicable to a transmitting antenna. If the feedline length affects the SWR, then something's wrong with the installation, because that means that the coax is radiating. -- Dan Brown, KE6MKS, danb(at)a.crl.com Don't tread on me. E-Mail may be published at my discretion. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 24, 1996
From: Rick Osgood <74774.54(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: John Hovan's web site
Has anyone connected to the Hovan web site lately. I have tried on a number of time and is so slow I cant stand it. I tried the mirror site and got no connect at all. Even tried skipping the graphics to no avail. I love the site but "Hey - open up - let me in" Rick Minnesota (28.8 modem thru Compuserve) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Brown" <danb(at)a.crl.com>
Date: Feb 24, 1996
Subject: Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question
> From: jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com (Michael McGee) > 1. By nature (or design) coax does not radiate like an antenna does. It's > energy losses (from impedence) are a product of two conductors side by side. In a proper installation, the coax shouldn't radiate at all. If it does, something's wrong, most likely a grounding problem > 2. Impedance is not the same as resistance. The antenna circuit is ac not > dc, so the optimum or max power output is frequency dependant. The coax > length is a part of the tuning of that circuit. If you change the length, The only parts of an antenna circuit which need to be tuned are radiators. If the feedline is doing its job, it's just moving the RF energy from the radio to the antenna and back--who cares if the wave in the antenna is in phase with the one at the back of the radio? As long as all the energy is getting there, and the antenna is properly tuned, it's all right. I vaguely recall an article a few years back in an aviation magazine (possibly Kitplanes) describing why this isn't really a concern. Also, books and articles about ham radio antennas universally stress keeping the feedline length as short as possible. I've read many such articles, and there has never been a mention of "tuning the coax" as a way to help your station's output. BTW, RG-58 is quite lossy at UHF frequencies. Another reason to keep it as short as possible. -- Dan Brown, KE6MKS, danb(at)a.crl.com Don't tread on me. E-Mail may be published at my discretion. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 24, 1996
Subject: Re: Stall Warning Device
Would it be acceptable to use the Rocky MTN. Encoder for your stall warning? I have one in my RV-6 and can set alarms for any speeds that I want on the high as well as the low end, it has provisions for high stall speed and low stall speed and for yellow line and red line I have mine set to give me a warning if I get slower than I want on approch I get a warning and had better wake up and do something about and also about 5 mph above actual stall speed. As most of you know this is also all the flight instruments and a mode c encoder interfaced with the transponder which gives actual altitude readout being given to radar. I think it is really a neat intrument. Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS first flight July 14,1989 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 24, 1996
Subject: Re: Props
>Man.... > >Forget the prop. I'm on my way for the food! > >tw *snip* >>If you want to try out my prop feel free to fly out to Paine field in >>Everett; be sure to bring at least one or two of those T-bones. I'll >>provide the King Salmon grilled on my barbarque using my 'special sauce'. >>Or, have you ever had fresh Olympia oysters picked off the beach and cooked >>in their own juice over a bed of coals? Or, maybe Razor Clams would better >>suit you. Yup, Puget Sound does have good munchies. But, we do have too >>much rain, floods, fog and cloudy weather. >>'Marginal VFR' in Western Washington is when you need to use your portable >>GPS to find the airport. If you can see the tower it's ok to fly. >>John Ammeter >>ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com >>Seattle WA, USA >>RV-6 N16JA >>Flying 5 years John Ammeter puts on a heck of a good barbecue every year at the Arlington WA. flyin for all the RV people you should try to make it. Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Feb 24, 1996
Subject: VOR Cable lenght
You guys just won't believe me. I'll try one more time, then I give up. Let me lay this out for you. I'm a airplane driver, been around airplanes all my life, my father was an airplane driver, fighters in the BIG war and all that stuff, I think he knew Orville and Wilbur, you know, they did that thing at Kitty Hawk. Any way, I do ok at smashing rivets and fooling with engines, the things that really count. Electronics is another thing, If the feds didn't make you have all that heavy expensive junk to fly in the clouds I wouldn't bother. You think I like talking to controllers..... So I go to my friendly avionics shop and tell them I want to install the electronic stuff in my airplane. Might learn something, right. They grudgingly allow me to do it, but lay out very specific ground rules. Like DO NOT CUT THE VOR ANTENNA CABLE. I can understand simple instructions. I don't ask why......and you know, when I tune the nav in I usually end up where I want to go. Amazing! So I thought I would pass it on to the other non- electronics type airplane drivers like me. Then all these electronic guys get theoretical on us..........oh well. So if you want to cut yours to 12" long, go ahead. Might be a great adventure to see where you end up when you go somewhere. Hey, no fair using all that gps modern stuff. Ruins the fun. See ya, You technical types can fight this one out, I'm going flying, ......it's time to strap the chute on and have some real fun like old Orville & Wilbur, no navs today! Rusty ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 24, 1996
From: boatright thomas reginald <trboatri(at)ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: spilled rivets!(humor):(
Hey all, I just realized today, how important it is to keep those rivets in a place that will not upset or tumble over. I dumped every rivet I own on the floor in my over eagerness to get something done. Them 3-3 are kind of hard to visually tell from 3-3.5.. probably will need glasses by the time I get done. Tried to pawn the job off on the wife and kids but they would have no part of it. Oh well perhaps it will be a good fireside job........... Hang on to them rivets fellow buckers:> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 24, 1996
From: "Thomas N. Martin" <103212.65(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Pitot and Quatrant
You asked >1. Does anyone have a source or idea of how to make or buy a set of >nice little fittings for the pitot static lines where they come out the >rear of the fuselage? (I think that a big pop-rivet is a bit >Mickey-Mouse). I have searched hardware stores but found nothing >exactly right. >2. I am building a -4. Could someone please tell me the pros/cons of >using a throttle quadrant with levers versus using push pull cables. >3. I will use a wood prop. If I buy a quadrant, should I use two or >three levers? Does anyone use the third lever for carb heat? If so, >how do you like that? >4. I think I would prefer my throttle on the right side but most RV-4s >seem to have it on the left. If I put it on the right, is that a big >mistake? I used the pop rivet and after paint it looks all right but cleveland tools sell a nicer looking one Quatrants are the standard and I use a two handle, one for throttle, and one for mixture. I am fuel injected so don't have carb heat. The throttle works great but the mixture would be better if it was a vernier type. You could then use this second handle for carb heat. That is the set up on champs and citabrias which you will probably get checked out in. I am always afraid that sometime when I am not paying attention I will, during my pre landing check, pull back the mixture handle as was the case when the handle was used for carb heat in the citabria. You should put the quadrant on the left as that is the what most pilots of tandem seating aircraft are use to. Always keep in mind that some day, heaven forbid, you might want to sell the plane. Tom Martin RV-4 90hrs and climbing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 24, 1996
Subject: static ports
Rivet in two of the fittings used on the fuel tanks for attaching the quick drains at the proper location, and drill the smallest hole you can in the center. Attach proper fittings for nyla-flow line, and hookup to your instruments. Don't forget to seal the thing to the skin with RTV, or similiar stuff. Static system leaks are not allowed! Check Six! Mark mlfred(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 24, 1996
From: finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen )
Subject: Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question
You wrote: > >>That doesn't sound right. If the antenna and radio are correctly >>matched and you're using the correct impedance coax (e.g. 50 ohms), >>then the shorter the better (less loss). >>Anyone else who's second that? >> >> >>Finn >> >Finn, >I know zilch about this stuff, but there have been many articles by experts, >and they say that the connector has to be not only the right impedence, but >then there is something about a 'standing wave' reflector or something. They >recommend you get a 'swr' meter and find the right length for the coax. For >all I know, this is to get 1/2 of 1 percent increase, or it may be to get 99 >percent increase. An article in Sport Planes or Kit Planes a while back >covered this very well. I know the formula they gave for the beginning >lengths worked for me. I can dig the article out if any one is interested. >It wasn't just the resistance. And I was like you, figured the shorter the >better. The articles convince me otherwise. Sort of like the lenght of the >ant, has a relation to the freq. >John D RV6 N61764 completed. > John, the bottom line is that with a correctly designed antenna matching the radio the length of the cable should not alter the matching of the antenna to the radio, provided of course that you use the right impedance connectors and coax. Sometimes a length (e.g. 1/2 wavelength) of coax is used to match an antenna with the "wrong" impedance to a radio. If that's the case here, you should be able to shorten the coax in 1 wavelength increments. At 127 MHz (average of 118 and 136 MHz) that would be 2.36 meters (93 inches). But you're right, in the situation where the coax is being used to match the radio, it'd be wise to use a SWR meter to ensure an optimal match. I rest my case. Finn ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SHOFFIUS(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 24, 1996
Subject: Re: Props
BOB, I have an Aymar (sp) Demuth prop that is supposed to be for a 150 Lyc. I have had it so long that I'm not sure what the pitch etc is. I have not used it yet and am not even sure what the bolt size . is. If you don't get any better offers I don't have a problem letting you try it out. Stowe Hoffius 21749 RV6-A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 24, 1996
From: crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer)
Subject: Fixed Pitch, C/S Conversion
Could someone who has converted an RV from a fixed pitch to constant speed prop help me with a little planning advice. I intend to initially equip my 6A with a F/P prop and 0-320. Plan on buying the engine from Vans so it will already have the hollow crank necessary for a C/S. Will also make the firewall mod as outlined in Orndorffs fus video. Spoke with Vans yesterday and they indicated the same cowl fits either prop application at least for the 0-320, didn't ask about an 0-360. I'd be interested to know what else is involved in making the change over (other than the plug business with the crankshaft). I've never done this before so I'm learning as I go. Chet Razer crazer(at)midwest.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Stephens6(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 24, 1996
Subject: Re: Moving to Dallas
Terry, There are lots of RV's here. EAA Chapter 168 is a very active chapter. Probably your best bets for an airport in the North Dallas area, in my opinion, are Aero Country, West of McKinney, or McKinney airport. Dick Stephens RV6 Fusilage still in the jig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 24, 1996
Subject: Re: Pitot & Quadrant
>1. Does anyone have a source or idea of how to make or buy a set of >nice little fittings for the pitot static lines where they come out the >rear of the fuselage? (I think that a big pop-rivet is a bit >Mickey-Mouse). I have searched hardware stores but found nothing >exactly right. It does sound mickey-mouse, but in fact looks very nice. It is a special pop rivet that has a 3/16" diameter head that is slightly domed and polished. With the mandrel pushed out it leaves a nice finished installation. It looks like a factory fitting. Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 24, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Pitot & Quadrant
exactly right. > >2. I am building a -4. Could someone please tell me the pros/cons of >using a throttle quadrant with levers versus using push pull cables. > >3. I will use a wood prop. If I buy a quadrant, should I use two or >three levers? Does anyone use the third lever for carb heat? If so, >how do you like that? > >4. I think I would prefer my throttle on the right side but most RV-4s >seem to have it on the left. If I put it on the right, is that a big >mistake? Peter, Wouldn't it depend on what you are use to and what you feel most comfortable with? I had done all of my flying with throttle on left side. So, in spite of Vans saying you may not get full aileron movement, I put it there. (as for stick movement, it hits the stop before it hits my leg) Took a 2 lever throt quard. and converted to one. Left the mix. as a vernier on center upright and have a simple pull for on for carb heat (on center upright). If you are left handed and fly with your left hand, I see nothing wrong with it on the rt side. The one comment about resale may be valid, but you can change it over (at least in a 6) fairly easy. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 24, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: aileron buffet
to those of you flying: In a max aileron deflection at normal speeds, do you ever feel a slight nibbling, pulsating bob to the stick? I get it mostly on rolls to the left. It isn't like any high speed stall I've ever felt. Almost as someone were thumping the stick. About 5 or 6 of them in a 360 roll. Can't detect any looseness in the rods. Doesn't seem to effect any thing, but I notice it. Just wondering if anyone else had encounted it. John D RV6 N61764 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 24, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Props
>BOB, > >I have an Aymar (sp) Demuth prop that is supposed to be for a 150 Lyc. I >have had it so long that I'm not sure what the pitch etc is. I have not used >it yet and am not even sure what the bolt size . is. > >If you don't get any better offers I don't have a problem letting you try it >out. > >Stowe Hoffius >21749 >RV6-A Stowe: Thanks for the offer. Where do you live? Bob Skinner ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 24, 1996
From: Dan Ebneter <ebneter(at)inwave.com>
Subject: Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question
In response to the feedline comments, Dave (WB7OBG)said: > The RG-58 coax should present a constant 50 ohms impedance no matter what its length. You are correct Dave. Finn Said: >That doesn't sound right. If the antenna and radio are correctly >matched and you're using the correct impedance coax (e.g. 50 ohms), >then the shorter the better (less loss). >Anyone else who's second that? I,ll second that too. Although at the lengths involved inside an aircraft, I doubt you could could measure the loss difference. Rusty said: >Since I started this thread I saw my avionics shop wizard at the airport >today, so I asked him again. He says, again, that the coax supplied with >the antenna should not be cut. It is tuned (as in wavelength) to the antenna. >All I know is that it works well. It could make a difference if an impedance mismatch does exist I suppose. John D. said: >They recommend you get a 'swr' meter and find the right length for the coax. I don't know about the length, but you can tune your antenna if need be. Theoretically, feedline length shouldn't matter. I have access to a swr/freq counter and will check mine when the time comes. A local Ham could probably help you. They tend to like aviation. Dan Brown (KE6MKS) said: >If everything is matched properly, the feedline shouldn't >be radiating, and its length shouldn't effect the efficiency of the >antenna. I have seen suggestions that changing the length will >somehow rotate the radiation pattern of the antenna, but even that >seems odd. If the length of the feedline _is_ particularly >important, I'm surprised that that fact doesn't appear somewhere on >the amateur radio exams (at least not through Advanced). Again I agree. My only concern would be that the splitters and GS antennas could be acting like stubs on the line. This could possibly effect the resonant frequency of the tranmitting antenna. I don't know how the splitters are constructed internally, and if they would have an effect. If they do act as stubs, then cable lengths could be important. For those of you who don't know what a stub is, it is a method of matching impedances using short lengths of feedline in some cases. Perhaps Dave or Dan can add to this theory. BTW, e-mail me direct if you would like to set up an HF sked to discuss this. It has been my experience that antennas are part theory and part luck. You sometimes need to experiment to get optimum results. Dan Ebneter N9FLH, Looking at the plans (RV6) and preparing. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RFlunker(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 25, 1996
Subject: Emp Skin
I have a set of .016 emp skins that am willing to part with for not much more than shipping costs. They are primed with SW primer, but are otherwize untouched. If you are interested, contact me directly. Dick Flunker (RFLUNKER(at)AOL.COM) RV-6A, Emp 95% done, Wings shipping Monday! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 24, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: Fixed Pitch, C/S Conversion
>Could someone who has converted an RV from a fixed pitch to constant speed >prop help me with a little planning advice. I intend to initially equip my >6A with a F/P prop and 0-320. Plan on buying the engine from Vans so it >will already have the hollow crank necessary for a C/S. Will also make the >firewall mod as outlined in Orndorffs fus video. Spoke with Vans yesterday >and they indicated the same cowl fits either prop application at least for >the 0-320, didn't ask about an 0-360. > >I'd be interested to know what else is involved in making the change over >(other than the plug business with the crankshaft). I've never done this >before so I'm learning as I go. > >Chet Razer >crazer(at)midwest.net > > You'll need a governor, control cable for the governor and a new spinner as well as the plug plus, of course, the CS prop. Van will supply the adapter and oil line with the new engine. You may want to check the CG. A local builder told me that he added about 35 pounds to his aircraft when he changed from a FP to a CS on his O-320 RV-4. The CG was right at the forward limit when empty. Of course, when he's in the aircraft the CG will be farther aft. If you or anyone else is in the market for a spinner for a Hartsell equipped RV let me know. I was going to convert my RV-6 to a CS, found I couldn't due to a previous owner installing the wrong crankshaft and ended up with a spinner that I can't use. The spinner is made by Jerry Harrold and is designed to fit over the front cylinder of the prop. No screws are visible. It's really an attractive spinner and I would make someone a good deal on it. Let me know if you need it. John Ammeter ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com Seattle WA, USA RV-6 N16JA Flying 5 years ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TLump(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 25, 1996
Subject: Re: RV-4 Sliding Canopy
Please, yes I am interested in getting more information. I'm already spending a lot of time building the airplane. I might as well build what I really want. Besides, I'm one of the poor misguided souls who likes building as much as flying. Thanks, Ted ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 25, 1996
Subject: Re: aileron buffet
>to those of you flying: > >In a max aileron deflection at normal speeds, do you ever feel a slight >nibbling, pulsating bob to the stick? I get it mostly on rolls to the left. >It isn't like any high speed stall I've ever felt. Almost as someone were >thumping the stick. About 5 or 6 of them in a 360 roll. Can't detect any >looseness in the rods. Doesn't seem to effect any thing, but I notice it. >Just wondering if anyone else had encounted it. >John D RV6 N61764 > > > I would really be carefull about doing max aileron deflection at as you say normal speeds, at manuvering speed yes, normal speeds no. The aileron buffet or snatch in a roll is common on the RV's it is the aileron itself stalling at certain rolling rates especially at higher speeds and roll rates. Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 1996
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: Re: John Hovan's web site
You wrote: > >Has anyone connected to the Hovan web site lately. I have tried on a >number of time and is so slow I cant stand it. I tried the mirror >site and got no connect at all. Even tried skipping the graphics to >no avail. > >I love the site but "Hey - open up - let me in" > >Rick >Minnesota (28.8 modem thru Compuserve) > Rick, you have to be crazy enough to try it at about 4 AM on a week-end! I just did and it was very FAST. Another one of the little prices we pay for this RV popularity! Bill -- ___ _______________________ \ \ _ _ / / \ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello \ X-*#####*******......./ Chicago / o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on emp. \ \__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com / \______________________\ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Feb 25, 1996
Subject: Re: aileron buffet
>to those of you flying: > >In a max aileron deflection at normal speeds, do you ever feel a slight >nibbling, pulsating bob to the stick? I get it mostly on rolls to the left. >It isn't like any high speed stall I've ever felt. Almost as someone were >thumping the stick. About 5 or 6 of them in a 360 roll. Can't detect any >looseness in the rods. Doesn't seem to effect any thing, but I notice it. >Just wondering if anyone else had encounted it. >John D RV6 N61764 > John: Apparantly its a common thing. It got my attention the first few times in full deflection rolls. I hear it's more pronounced in 4's than 6's. Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 1996
From: Graham Taylor <gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Stall Warning Device
On Sat, 24 Feb 1996 aol.com!JerryFlyRV(at)matronics.com wrote: > Would it be acceptable to use the Rocky MTN. Encoder for your stall warning? > I think it is really a neat intrument. > Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS first flight July 14,1989 I have got the Rocky Mountain Encoder, and could certainly use that, but strictly speaking, its alarms are based on airspeed, and one can stall at any speed -eg, steep turns increase stalling speed. I may also want to take the Rocky Mountain intrument into another A/c, so I want conventional stall warning. You're right Jerry, the Rocky Mountain encoder is a superb piece of work. I got their engine package first, and was so impressed with it figured I'd save some more money with the Encoder. For those not familiar with it, it is also an airspeed indicator, altimeter, and VSI. All fits in one 3 1/8" hole too. Cheers, Graham Taylor RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 1996
From: Rick Osgood <74774.54(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Elevator counterbalance weights
Hi all. Can anyone tell me the approx weight of the lead weights used to counterbalance each elevator. I am finding it to be about 4 pounds for each elevator. I am also using lead shot and will melt this down for the weight. Any one else use this type of lead and does it melt ok. Thanks Rick in Minnesota ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 1996
From: Jim Ayers <102337.2252(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Fixed Pitch, C/S Conversion
>>Could someone who has converted an RV from a fixed pitch to constant speed >>prop help me with a little planning advice. I intend to initially equip my >>6A with a F/P prop and 0-320. Plan on buying the engine from Vans so it >>will already have the hollow crank necessary for a C/S. Will also make the >>firewall mod as outlined in Orndorffs fus video. Spoke with Vans yesterday >>and they indicated the same cowl fits either prop application at least for >>the 0-320, didn't ask about an 0-360. >> >>I'd be interested to know what else is involved in making the change over >>(other than the plug business with the crankshaft). I've never done this >>before so I'm learning as I go. >> >>Chet Razer >>crazer(at)midwest.net >> >You'll need a governor, control cable for the governor and a new spinner as >well as the plug plus, of course, the CS prop. Van will supply the adapter >and oil line with the new engine. You may want to check the CG. A local >builder told me that he added about 35 pounds to his aircraft when he >changed from a FP to a CS on his O-320 RV-4. The CG was right at the >forward limit when empty. Of course, when he's in the aircraft the CG will >be farther aft. (stuff cut) > >John Ammeter >ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com >Seattle WA, USA >RV-6 N16JA >Flying 5 years Or you could leave the crank plug where it is, buy a new spinner (for the blade cutouts) to mount an Ivoprop "Magnum" electric constant speed prop. There should not be any change in the empty weight or C.G. of the aircraft, and you should be able to keep $2,000 in your own pocket that you would have spent for a hydraulic constant speed prop and governor. Jim Ayers LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder 102337.2252(at)compuserve.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 1996
From: Jim Ayers <102337.2252(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: elevator redesign??
Someone on this list said they were going to redesign the elevators because of the cracking problem. Unfortunately, I deleted the message and cannot respond directly. The skin cracks are a symptom, not the problem. If you leave all of the skin thicknesses (.016 skins) and stiffeners the same, but make the root rib and the tip rib with the same slope (angle from spar to T.E.), you will have solved the problem. Jim Ayers LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder 102337.2252(at)compuserve.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: Elevator counterbalance weights
>Hi all. Can anyone tell me the approx weight of the lead weights used to >counterbalance each elevator. >I am finding it to be about 4 pounds for each elevator. I am also using lead >shot and will melt this down >for the weight. Any one else use this type of lead and does it melt ok. > > >Thanks > >Rick in Minnesota > On my RV-6 I used about some reject cast lead bullets melted down. Lead shot should be basically the same alloy. Should work ok. I seem to recall that when I used a plastic cup suspended from the front of the elevator horn that the cup only held about 1 1/2 to 2 pounds (or maybe less) at the balance point. I used the .016 skins on the elevator; if you are using the .020 skins you'd need more lead to balance the elevator. In any case, whatever it needs is what it needs. John Ammeter ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com Seattle WA, USA RV-6 N16JA Flying 5 years ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 1996
From: bobh(at)synopsys.com (Bob Haan)
Subject: Re: Elevator counterbalance weights
>Hi all. Can anyone tell me the approx weight of the lead weights used to >counterbalance each elevator. >I am finding it to be about 4 pounds for each elevator. I am also using lead >shot and will melt this down >for the weight. Any one else use this type of lead and does it melt ok. > Van's pre-cast weights are 8 lbs 12 oz for 4 weights so 4 lbs 6 oz for one elevator. These pre-cast weights are uninstalled and I would anticipate will require some lightening by drilling out some lead in order to balance. Bob Haan Portland, OR RV6-A both wings in the jigs bobh(at)synopsys.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 25, 1996
Subject: Re: aileron buffet
I've flown several RV's, both -4 & -6, and they all did it. I guess it's normal, but it gets my attention each time... Check six, Mark mlfred(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator counterbalance weights
>Hi all. Can anyone tell me the approx weight of the lead weights used to >counterbalance each elevator. >I am finding it to be about 4 pounds for each elevator. I am also using lead >shot and will melt this down >for the weight. Any one else use this type of lead and does it melt ok. > > >Thanks > >Rick in Minnesota > Rick: I never weighed the amount of lead, just put enough on the counter balance arm to balance and then put in a little extra to allow for the weight of the paint. The lead shot should work fine. I've known some builders to melt the lead in a coffee can on a Coleman stove but I wouldn't do that. Most cans are soldered and it wouldn't be a good idea for things to come apart when hot lead is involved. I'd swipe a beat up cooking pan from the wife or, ideally, borrow a cast iron pot made for this purpose from a friend of yours that casts his own bullets. Don't drop ANY water in the molten lead and wear heavy gloves and clothes. For sealing holes in the area that you are going to pout the lead, you might try plugging holes with modeling clay instead of aluminum foil. The foil can leak, didn't have any problems when I used the clay. Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Fixed Pitch, C/S Conversion
>Or you could leave the crank plug where it is, buy a new spinner (for the blade >cutouts) to mount >an Ivoprop "Magnum" electric constant speed prop. There should not be any >change in the empty >weight or C.G. of the aircraft, and you should be able to keep $2,000 in your >own pocket that you >would have spent for a hydraulic constant speed prop and governor. > >Jim Ayers >LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder >102337.2252(at)compuserve.com Jim: I'm probably like a lot of builders. We'd like it just fine if you and other builders would accumilate a lot of time with zero troubles before we purchase a prop that is unfamiliar to us. I'm definately interested in your prop experience but need to more information from you and others before making the change. I looked into a Warpdrive prop a couple of years ago and talked to a RV-4 builder in Miss. that was having good luck with a three blade prop. But, we've also heard about many more pilots that have had trouble with either ground or in flight adjustable props. Is the Magnum the constant speed version? Is this the versionthat you've been testing for the last two years or was it ground adjustable? I'd sure be interested to see the data that you've collected. I'm sure getting tired of re-pitching my wood prop to get my performance to wher I think it should be. Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Feb 25, 1996
Subject: Re: elevator redesign??
>Someone on this list said they were going to redesign the elevators because of >the cracking >problem. Unfortunately, I deleted the message and cannot respond directly. The >skin cracks are a symptom, not the problem. >If you leave all of the skin thicknesses (.016 skins) and stiffeners the same, >but make the root rib and the tip rib with the same slope (angle from spar to >T.E.), you will have solved the problem. > >Jim Ayers >LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder >102337.2252(at)compuserve.com Jim: I posted the comment. I'm not really following your point, the front spar is tapered so there is a slight difference in the angles involved. But I'm open to any and all suggestions. Talking to Van's, the cracks are appearing earlier on the high horsepower constant speed installations. Van has made the decision to go to .020 skins on the 8. My cracks appeared at the front of the stiffeners, not the trailing edge. I've got a couple of ideas on ways to tie the stiffeners into the front spar which would help stop the stress on the skin around the first rivet of the stiffener. Others on the list are working on other solutions. Somebody will come up with something that will work. I'll post the results. Thanks for your input. Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 1996
From: "Thomas N. Martin" <103212.65(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: swivel tailwheel report
I just had my first flights with the new full swivel tail wheel. First off it is very easy to install and looks good. It is well constructed and only adds one half of a pound over the stock assembly. I replaced the Van's wheel with a matco wheel that is one half pound lighter then stock so the net effect is 0. It is great to be able to push the tail of the plane around and backwards on the ground. The stock tail wheel assembly is a pain in that regard. Taxiing is very much like the standard unit with some exceptions. It is very easy to apply full rudder and a little brake and get the plane to swing right around. This is great for moving and parking the plane. Take off and landings are no different then before. My one concern, and it is a big one, is that the detent position trips too soon. I am worried that on final some time I might need full rudder due to a gust of wind. This would unlock the wheel. The plane could possibly be landed without a steerable tailwheel. It is conceivable that the detent locked postion may not click back into place if things got going too fast. This would have the potential of putting you into a ground loop. It unlocks much sooner and easier then the tailwheel of my old Citabria. It could be that I have to learn the dos and don'ts of this wheel. I would be interested in hearing if others have any experiences. Possibly a slightly stiffer spring would help.If my fears are unfounded this product could quickly become a stock item. It is that good. Tom Martin RV-4 just in from 2.5 hours of the best flying so far in 96. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 1996
From: Russ Werner <russ(at)maui.net>
Subject: Re: elevator redesign??
Rumor is that the cracks are not showing up on the Harmon Rockets, possibly indicating a prop-pulse resonance that is helping them to crack. >>Someone on this list said they were going to redesign the elevators because of >>the cracking >>problem. Unfortunately, I deleted the message and cannot respond directly. >The >>skin cracks are a symptom, not the problem. >>If you leave all of the skin thicknesses (.016 skins) and stiffeners the same, >>but make the root rib and the tip rib with the same slope (angle from spar to >>T.E.), you will have solved the problem. >> >>Jim Ayers >>LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder >>102337.2252(at)compuserve.com >Jim: > >I posted the comment. I'm not really following your point, the front spar >is tapered so there is a slight difference in the angles involved. But I'm >open to any and all suggestions. Talking to Van's, the cracks are appearing >earlier on the high horsepower constant speed installations. Van has made >the decision to go to .020 skins on the 8. My cracks appeared at the front >of the stiffeners, not the trailing edge. > >I've got a couple of ideas on ways to tie the stiffeners into the front spar >which would help stop the stress on the skin around the first rivet of the >stiffener. > >Others on the list are working on other solutions. Somebody will come up >with something that will work. > >I'll post the results. Thanks for your input. > >Rusty Gossard >N47RG RV-4 Flying > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 1996
From: John Morrissey <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au>
Subject: Re: Stall Warning Device
G'day Graham, I was talking to Simon Pike from Temora this morning and he has a drawing for the switch installation he used in his two RV6's. He is going to Fax me a copy tomorrow (27th), if you give me your Snail mail or Fax number I'll send it too you. Depending on the quality I can scan it for anyone else who is interested. P.S. are you coming to Mangalore this year?? John Morrissey RV4 under construction >The Australian authorities require a stall warning device on my 6A, so I >have rigged up a Cherry microswitch activated by a small hinged stainless >steel vane, which will poke thru a small slot in the leading edge, just >like a Piper Cherokee or Arrow. > >Does anyone have any idea where the vane should be in relation to the >chord line, or any other reference point, so it will trip the switch at 5 >knots above the stall. > >The switch will activate one of the alarm circuits built into the Rocky >Mountain engine monitor. > > >Graham Taylor >RV-6A - F/Fwd complete, a few small jobs before final plumbing, wiring, etc. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Morrissey CSIRO ITS Communications Section Phone:- 06 2766811 Fax:- 06 2766617 Mobile:- 018 628804 Email:- John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au CSIRO ---- AUSTRALIA'S SCIENCE, AUSTRALIA'S FUTURE! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: swivel tailwheel report
>I just had my first flights with the new full swivel tail wheel. First off it is >very easy to install and looks good. It is well constructed and only adds one >half of a pound over the stock assembly. I replaced the Van's wheel with a matco >wheel that is one half pound lighter then stock so the net effect is 0. > > >Tom Martin RV-4 just in from 2.5 hours of the best flying so far in 96. > Tom, Can you give us the Matco part number of that wheel? Does it have the same 'strength' and will it wear the same as Van's wheel? I've looked around Seattle for a substitute wheel and have seen some Matco wheels but maybe didn't see the model you bought. Thanks, John Ammeter ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com Seattle WA, USA RV-6 N16JA Flying 5 years ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TommyLewis(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 25, 1996
Subject: Re: The RVSEARCH ftp site
Have any othe AOL users been able to download the archieve from ftp.matronics.com? Today, for the first time, I can get to this site, but cannot view the directories. TommyLewis(at)AOL.COM wings out of jigs, in wing holder in living room RV6a fuselage box will be delivered tomorrow ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Feb 25, 1996
Subject: Re:ftp site
>-------------- >Have any othe AOL users been able to download the archieve from >ftp.matronics.com? Today, for the first time, I can get to this site, but >cannot view the directories. > >TommyLewis(at)AOL.COM >wings out of jigs, in wing holder in living room >RV6a fuselage box will be delivered tomorrow >-------------- Tommy et al, The service provider is upgrading their machines from SUN OS to Solaris. I have sent them 2 email messsages so far asking for an ETA on the return of normal FTP service. I have so far not received a reply. I will post a message when service has been returned. Sorry for the problems... Matt Dralle RV-List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Feb 25, 1996
Subject: Re: elevator redesign??
>Rumor is that the cracks are not showing up on the Harmon Rockets, possibly >indicating a prop-pulse resonance that is helping them to crack. > The local guys that are sharp on airframe problems and have seen my problem suggested that very thing. I have heard Harmon did do some reinforcing on .016 skins and I am going to call him to find out the details. Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Zilik(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 25, 1996
Subject: Re: Elevator counterbalance weights
>Hi all. Can anyone tell me the approx weight of the lead weights used to >counterbalance each elevator. >I am finding it to be about 4 pounds for each elevator. I am also using lead >shot and will melt this down >for the weight. Any one else use this type of lead and does it melt ok. The weights you post seem about right. I did not bother to weigh mine. Lead shot will melt just fine and is easy to work with. I used weel weights that I got down at the local tire shop. PLEASE BE CARFULL, Molten lead is VERY DANGEROUS!!!!!!! I have been casting my own bullets for years so am equiped to melt lead and pour it. On one of my elevators the pot got away from me and I just ran as it dropped and spilled. I was very lucky. You might try the lead shot/epoxy resin method. No dangerous hot molten lead to contend with. There is also the precast options from Van's Gary Zilik RV-6A (Fuel Tanks Finally Done!!!!!) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 1996
From: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com (Doug Weiler)
Subject: Twin Cities RV Forum
Fellow Listers: Allow me to make the following announcement: 2nd Annual Twin Cities RV Builder's Forum Sat. April 27, 1995, 8am - 5pm Regent Aviation, St. Paul Downtown Airport, St. Paul MN. The MN Wing of Van's AirForce, Regent Aviation, and Van's Aircraft is sponsoring our second RV forum in April. Join us for a day of RV education and fun!! Planning has been underway for several months and we are looking forward to seeing a real crowd of RVers in St. Paul. This will be a great opportunity to listen to a field of expert RV speakers plus see, feel, and touch a array of completed RVs. Here's the tentative schedule: 0800 - 0845 Registration 0845 - 0900 Welcome 0900 - 1200 RV Speakers 1200 - 1300 Lunch 1300 - 1500 RV Speakers 1500 - 1700 Van's Aircraft - Guest speaker Bill Benedict, general manager of Van's will be our special guest and weather permitting, Bill is planning to bring the RV-8 so this will be everyone's big chance to see the latest and greatest RV. Other activities on the agenda: * Sheet metal workshop - try your hand at construction of a RV-6 vertical stab. * RV vendors and product information. * Door prizes (win the vertical stab and same some building time!!) * Completed RVs on display. Builders on hand to answer questions. * Mini-fly market area. Join us in the evening (7pm) for a catered banquet at the Country Inn in Woodbury, MN. Our guest speaker will be Liz Strohfus, a delightful and entertaining speaker who will honor us with her story of her service as a WWII WASP. Liz has been a featured speaker for Northwest Airlines and other aviation groups in the Twin Cities area. Seating will be limited so we will fill up on a first come-first served basis. Fly-in RVs area especially welcome (free registration!) A People's Choice award is planned for the best RV in attendance. Out-of-towners... Plan to spend the weekend in the Twin Cities (hey, by April the snow is usually less than 12 inches!!) What more could you ask for... schmoozing with RVers on Saturday and seeing the sights in Minnespolis/St. Paul on Sunday (not to mention the Mall of America). A special rate is available at the Country Inn plus other hotels are available in the immediate area (rental cars at Regent Aviation). Forum registration is $15 per person for the day including coffee, donuts, pop, and a catered lunch. Banquet fee is $15 per person. For details and a registration form, E-Mail me or call (715-386-1239) Doug -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= = Doug Weiler, pres. MN Wing, Van's AirForce, RV-4 in progress, N722DW = 347 Krattley Lane = Hudson, WI 54016 = 715-386-1239 = email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 1996
From: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com (Doug Weiler)
Subject: Re: Elevator counterbalance weights
>Hi all. Can anyone tell me the approx weight of the lead weights used to >counterbalance each elevator. >I am finding it to be about 4 pounds for each elevator. I am also using lead >shot and will melt this down >for the weight. Any one else use this type of lead and does it melt ok. > Rick: Go down to the local Tires Plus store and purchase the required amount of wheel balance weights (I spent a total of 96 cents). My understanding is that this lead alloy is not quite as soft as lead shot and drills better if you have to adjust the weights later on. Buy a little camping pot at Fleet Farm and heat the pot with a propane torch (the steel tire weight brackets can be easily removed when the lead is molten). If you plan on using electric trim, plan on quite a bit more lead on the left elevator to compensate for the servo. Doug -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= = Doug Weiler, pres. MN Wing, Van's AirForce, RV-4 in progress, N722DW = 347 Krattley Lane = Hudson, WI 54016 = 715-386-1239 = email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 1996
From: Jim Ayers <102337.2252(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Fixed Pitch, C/S Conversion
>Or you could leave the crank plug where it is, buy a new spinner (for the blade >cutouts) to mount an Ivoprop "Magnum" electric constant speed prop. There should not be >any change in the empty weight or C.G. of the aircraft, and you should be able to keep >$2,000 in your own pocket that you would have spent for a hydraulic constant speed prop >and governor. The above statement is just something to be considered for the future, when these props are available (and proven). I am not recommending this, at this time. I apologize for my statement above sounding like it is a current recommendation. I am getting the electric drive back from the manufacturer tomorrow (Monday), after his inspection of the gear drive. I am also getting the electronic governor back. I found a way to burn out the box that the manufacturer hadn't anticipated, when he added a new improvement. I really love being the first to try something new. ;-) (Ivo did recommend letting the governor manufacturer test it out, first) Jim Ayers LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder 102337.2252(at)compuserve.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 1996
From: Russ Werner <russ(at)maui.net>
Subject: Re: elevator redesign??
He has a trailing edge insert that can be put inside a .016 elevator skin. He is recommending the .020 skins for those who haven't already got the .016. The insert, if I remember is about 1.5 inches from the trailing edge, top and bottom and it matches the inside of the bend to reinforce the trailing edge. Easy. >The local guys that are sharp on airframe problems and have seen my problem >suggested that very thing. I have heard Harmon did do some reinforcing on >.016 skins and I am going to call him to find out the details. > >Regards: >Rusty Gossard >N47RG RV-4 Flying > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: elevator redesign??
>The local guys that are sharp on airframe problems and have seen my problem >suggested that very thing. I have heard Harmon did do some reinforcing on >.016 skins and I am going to call him to find out the details. > >Regards: >Rusty Gossard >N47RG RV-4 Flying Rusty: Suppose they just added more stiffners? I think I'll start working on the wings and set the elevators aside until we get a fix. Talked to a RV-4 builder in Omaha the other day. (180 and CS) He has a few small cracks and is going to use calking gun to inject some proseal at each stiffner location. I believe he said that his cracks were at the rivet locations, not at the end of the stiffners. He's going to let me know what happens and I'll let you know what he finds out. I have one idea I'll run by you. How about making an angle (.016") that corresponds with the taper of the trailing edge of the elevator and putting a dab of proseal on the bottom leg of the angle which would attach to the bottom elevator skin. The other leg of the angle would proseal to the stiffner angle on the top elevator skin. Each angle could be formed and fitted to allow for the taper of the trailing edge-root to tip and trial fitted in place. Once all angles are fitted, small dabs of proseal could be applied to each leg of the angle and the angle could be pressed in place. I suppose you would want to weigh the elevator down to keep things straight. A similar method could be used to tie the stiffners to the elevator spar. I don't think you would have to put much pressure on the parts, proseal always seemed sticky enough to me and any method of clamping would likely distort the metal. I would think that just pressing the piece into place with finger pressure would be fine. It would be a lot of extra work but so is building a new set of elevators. Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 26, 1996
Subject: Re: Fixed Pitch, C/S Conversion
If you are going to use an Ivo Prop, be sure that your life insurance is paid up before you fly. Your heirs will thank you if you are killed when the blades fail and shake your engine out of its mount. Don't scoff. It has happened. Jim Cone jamescone(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 26, 1996
Subject: Re: Elevator counterbalance weights
Lead shot works fine. Just be sure to fill all cracks and holes in the counter balance arm or the lead will leak out faster than you can pour it in. Any plumbing supply store can sell you a lead melting cup on a long handle and you can use a propane torch to melt the lead. Scrape off the slag before pouring the melted lead in the mold. It comes from the oil on the shot. Jim Cone jamescone(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 1996
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: Re: Stall Warning Device
You wrote: > >G'day Graham, > >I was talking to Simon Pike from Temora this morning and he has a >drawing for the switch installation he used in his two RV6's. He is >going to Fax me a copy tomorrow (27th), if you give me your Snail mail >or Fax number I'll send it too you. Depending on the quality I can >scan it for anyone else who is interested. > >P.S. are you coming to Mangalore this year?? > >John Morrissey >RV4 under construction > John, if your system has the capability of attaching the graphic to an email in a format that can be read by FaxWorks or Paintbrush, I would like to see a copy of it. I suspect it is of general interest to the group, so would you try to send it to the RV group if you could? If I can get it and make a decent print, I will offer it to anyone in the States via FAX or snail mail. Thanks and best regards. Bill Costello -- ___ _______________________ \ \ _ _ / / \ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello \ X-*#####*******......./ Chicago / o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on emp. \ \__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com / \______________________\ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OrndorffG(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 26, 1996
Subject: Re: No Subject
Terry I can help Hicks Airfield Ft Worth T67 if you are interested write or call and I'll Give you more info...George Orndorff (301)293-1505 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 1996
From: david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca
Subject: R. M. Encoder as Stall Warning Device
Only in level flight. The wings always stall at the same angle of attack. Pull enough "g" between stall speed and manoeuvring speed and the wing will stall without the Encoder going off. Some sort of acceleration compensation would have to be built in. David Fried DF-6 C-____ dfried(at)dehavilland.ca ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Warning Device Date: 2/24/96 05:01 PM Would it be acceptable to use the Rocky MTN. Encoder for your stall warning? I have one in my RV-6 and can set alarms for any speeds that I want on the high as well as the low end, it has provisions for high stall speed and low stall speed and for yellow line and red line I have mine set to give me a warning if I get slower than I want on approch I get a warning and had better wake up and do something about and also about 5 mph above actual stall speed. As most of you know this is also all the flight instruments and a mode c encoder interfaced with the transponder which gives actual altitude readout being given to radar. I think it is really a neat intrument. Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS first flight July 14,1989 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 1996
From: david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca
Subject: Static Ports: Flush vs Domed
Static ports are sensitive things. It is possible to change the pressure that is sensed by placing obstructions around or near them to adjust airspeed calibrations. The location of the ports on the fuselage may require compensation to account for a non zero pressure coefficient in that area. The domed shape may provide a necessary pressure increment not available from the machined flush ones. Have any of the members switched? David Fried DF-6 C-____ dfried(at)dehavilland.ca ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ >1. Does anyone have a source or idea of how to make or buy a set of >nice little fittings for the pitot static lines where they come out the >rear of the fuselage? (I think that a big pop-rivet is a bit >Mickey-Mouse). I have searched hardware stores but found nothing >exactly right. Cleaveland Aircraft tool has nice machined static ports. If I didit again I'd use those. Located in Boone Iowa. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Feb 26, 1996
Subject: Re: elevator redesign??
>He has a trailing edge insert that can be put inside a .016 elevator skin. >He is recommending the .020 skins for those who haven't already got the >.016. The insert, if I remember is about 1.5 inches from the trailing edge, >top and bottom and it matches the inside of the bend to reinforce the >trailing edge. Easy. > I have heard Harmon did do some reinforcing on >>.016 skins and I am going to call him to find out the details. >> OK, that takes care of the back, Mine cracked from the first front rivet. The area between the first rivet and the spar is unsupported and thats where the vibrations are going to focus. I've got RTV in the back. I agree with Bob Skinner that we may be able to tie the stiffeners to the spar. Like build a leg on them and proseal or rivet them to the spar. Or I've thought about undersized spars then run an extension of the stiffener between the skin and spar, then put .025 strips inbetween the extensions to keep the skin flat. If you can stop the vibrations from focusing on one area, the cracks should stop. Right? Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 1996
From: david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca
Subject: Re: aileron buffet
With maximum deflection of the ailerons you are sure to have separated flow in a number of places around the ailerons. The up going aileron is deflected greater than 30 degrees relative to the wing. These are frise ailerons and the leading edge balance protrudes into the flow on the bottom of that wing. The buffet you feel may well be turbulent flow. David Fried DF-6 C-____ dfried(at)dehavilland.ca ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RV-List: aileron buffet Date: 2/24/96 11:52 PM to those of you flying: In a max aileron deflection at normal speeds, do you ever feel a slight nibbling, pulsating bob to the stick? I get it mostly on rolls to the left. It isn't like any high speed stall I've ever felt. Almost as someone were thumping the stick. About 5 or 6 of them in a 360 roll. Can't detect any looseness in the rods. Doesn't seem to effect any thing, but I notice it. Just wondering if anyone else had encounted it. John D RV6 N61764 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HowardRV(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 26, 1996
Subject: Re: Elevator counterbalance weights
van's new catalog has the precast counterweights at $5.56 each. Howard Kidwell howardrv(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 26, 1996
>Fred: Boy, I'm excited, now. I don't remember you telling us that your >landing light bulbs were lasting that long! I've only been getting 7-8 hrs >on the GE4509's. I'm running a test on the 55 and 100 watt H3 halogens now >to get an idea of bulb life. Do you have your lights in the tips or wings? >Are these the lights you started with? >Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 > > Bob, Lights are cut intot the leading edge of the wings. I used the Bob Olds kit at the time, but you could easily construct them yourself if you wanted too. I beleive the bulbs are the H4's: 90Watt/130 Watt or (120Watt, I can't remember). These are the bulbs I started with. So far so good. Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 26, 1996
Subject: Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question
>'ve been working with radios and RF since the days when they had tubes >in them. Pick up any book on antenna design and you will quickly see >that the length of the antenna needs to be tuned to the frequency you >want to receive. Yes, you could use a VOR antenna to receive glideslope >signals. HOWEVER, you would be working with a de-tuned antenna. >Performance will be suboptimal. In a receive-only situation (like the >glideslope receiver) you can get away with this if you are willing to >live with the performance penalty. With a *transmitter*, this is >strictly a no-no. > >As to the length of the coax: SOME radios and SOME antennas are sensitive >to the length of the feedline. For example the antenna on my HF ham >transmitter at home does not care how long the feedline is, as long as it >is at least 60 feet in length. Unless the installation instructions >accompanying the radio or the antenna specifically call out requirements >for feedline lengths, you don't have to worry about it. The RG-58 coax >should present a constant 50 ohms impedance no matter what its length. > >Best Regards, >Dave Barnhart >rv-6 sn 23744 >N601DB >Ham radio WB7OBG Dan, I too agree with what you are saying, BUT, does what you loose in receiver performance really made a percieved difference? I think not, especially when you look at what level of performance that is necessary on a LOC/GLIDE SLOPE, or marker beacon. The amount of degragation in signal strength due to the receiver antenna mismatch in minor compared to the actual signal available. Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV WA1LWB wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 26, 1996
Subject: Re: aileron buffet
>n a max aileron deflection at normal speeds, do you ever feel a slight >nibbling, pulsating bob to the stick? I get it mostly on rolls to the left. >It isn't like any high speed stall I've ever felt. Almost as someone were >thumping the stick. About 5 or 6 of them in a 360 roll. Can't detect any >looseness in the rods. Doesn't seem to effect any thing, but I notice it. >Just wondering if anyone else had encounted it. >John D RV6 N61764 > > I've experienced aileron buffeting when the airspeed is clost to the manuvering speed and I apply full aileron deflection during a fast roll. Don't get it at any other time. You shouldn't be applying full deflection at speeds beyond the manuvering speed. Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 26, 1996
Subject: Re: Autopilots
He uses model airplane servos with springs to control the ailerons and elevator on your RV. I think in turbulence I would like a little more positive control, and a means to disconnect it if necessary. Fred Stucklen Rv-6A N925RV >Has anyone checked out the autopilots and fuel injection systems availible >through Empire Development? Check out the home page at >http://user.aol.com/chanik/ed. The three axis autopilot is selling for >$700. Sounds to good to be true. > >Here is the discription: > > >The SE5b is a tri-axis trim-tab autopilot, implementing pitch and roll >control with 1/4-scale servo motors and relying, for its input, on a >combination ofGPS or Loran receiver for heading/bearing/XTE information, a >solid-state pressure sensor for altitude data and dual tilt >sensors for improved system response. The unit operates in any of these >three modes: >I) Conventional electric trim control (default), via a push-button quad. >II) Match bearing, when the unit adjusts roll trim in order to track heading >to way-point bearing. >III) Hold heading, when the unit tracks to maintain the current heading. >In either mode II or III, the unit holds pressure altitude to that which was >recorded when the unit was engaged. The SE5b can read NMEA-0183b format from >the GPS/Loran and will hold +/-2deg on heading and +/-50ft on altitude. The >unit draws 2 Amps, and includes servo reversing and an LED mode/status >indicator. This system is intended for day-VFR use only. Cost is $699.00 >complete with two trim servos, connection hardware, LED mode indicator and 4 >micro push-button switches. (The 2-axis version is $599.00 with one servo.) >The unit even has provisions to accept future upgrades to the flight control >software. High-Torque servos for direct connection to control linkages are >available for an additional $30 per axis. There is a 60-day money-back >guarantee as well as a 1-year warranty. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 1996
From: 37xjglj(at)cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Paul & Janet Lein)
Subject: aircraft trade
Hello fellow RV builders, I'm new to the list and have only been lurking for a week or so, so I hope this post is not considered inappropriate. I have an extremely nice Bakeng Duce (Sport Aviation, April 1995, page 108) that I would like to trade for an equally nice RV3 or 4. Other than placing an ad in Trade-A-Plane, are there any suggestions that will help me reach RV owners who may not be on line or reading Trade-A-Plane regularly? I have an RV6A and am just starting fuselage construction (wooden jig). I have previously built a Pober Pixie as well as the Duce. Thanks in advance for any advice. Paul *************** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *************** Paul Lein Bassoons: Repair, Restoration, Sales 1555 South Brinton Road Mt. Pleasant, MI 48858-9628 (517) 644-2451 37XJGLJ(at)CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU *************** ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 1996
From: John Hovan <hovan(at)apple.com>
Subject: Re: John Hovan's web site
Hi Rick and All, The mirror site runs substantially faster. However, the power supply went out on the machine two days ago and we are in the process of getting it swapped out. The mirror site should be running by the end of the week. thanks for your patience! John Rick Osgood wrote: > > Has anyone connected to the Hovan web site lately. I have tried on a number of > time and is so slow I cant stand it. I tried the mirror site and got no connect > at all. Even tried skipping the graphics to no avail. > > I love the site but "Hey - open up - let me in" > > Rick > Minnesota (28.8 modem thru Compuserve) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 1996
From: Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator counterbalance weights
> From owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com Sun Feb 25 22:28:33 1996 > X-Deleted-Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com Not true. The slag comes from the hot lead being in contact with the oxygen in the air. The slag can be removed by fluxing the melted lead with candle wax. The wax soaks up the oxygen from the lead. Add a little wax just before you pour ( after it stops burning ) the lead. Chris > > Lead shot works fine. Just be sure to fill all cracks and holes in the > counter balance arm or the lead will leak out faster than you can pour it in. > Any plumbing supply store can sell you a lead melting cup on a long handle > and you can use a propane torch to melt the lead. Scrape off the slag before > pouring the melted lead in the mold. It comes from the oil on the shot. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Jim Cone > jamescone(at)aol.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 1996
From: Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com>
Subject: Re: elevator redesign??
Has anybody had success with the spray in foam? Somebody suggested this as a fix some time ago. Chris > > >The local guys that are sharp on airframe problems and have seen my problem > >suggested that very thing. I have heard Harmon did do some reinforcing on > >.016 skins and I am going to call him to find out the details. > > > >Regards: > >Rusty Gossard > >N47RG RV-4 Flying > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 1996
From: rbusick(at)nmsu.edu (Robert Busick)
Subject: Re: Metal jigs
I may have missed it but how do you contact Frey to get a metal jig and does any one know how much he wants to rent it. I have another RV-6 friend in town and he needs a jig now!! If anyone has a wood jig for sale in the Southwest let me know. We live in Las Cruces NM. Bob Busick RV-6 rbusick(at)nmsu.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
Date: Feb 26, 1996
Subject: Re: Stall Warning Device
>G'day Graham, > >I was talking to Simon Pike from Temora this morning and he has a drawing >for the switch installation he used in his two RV6's. He is going to Fax me >a copy tomorrow (27th), if you give me your Snail mail or Fax number I'll >send it too you. Depending on the quality I can scan it for anyone else who >is interested. >John Morrissey >RV4 under construction Please send me a copy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892 2300 Oakmont Way #205 Fax: 541-342-5492 Eugene, Oregon 97401 email: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 1996
From: Curtis L Smith <Curtis_L_Smith(at)ccm.ch.intel.com>
Subject: John Hovan's web site
Text item: Hi Rick and All, The mirror site runs substantially faster. However, the power supply went out on the machine two days ago and we are in the process of getting it swapped out. The mirror site should be running by the end of the week. thanks for your patience! John Rick Osgood wrote: > > Has anyone connected to the Hovan web site lately. I have tried on a number of > time and is so slow I cant stand it. I tried the mirror site and got no connect > at all. Even tried skipping the graphics to no avail. > > I love the site but "Hey - open up - let me in" > > Rick > Minnesota (28.8 modem thru Compuserve) Text item: External Message Header The following mail header is for administrative use and may be ignored unless there are problems. WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM THE "OWNER-RV-LIST" DISTRIBUTION LIST. IT'S REAPING HAVOC ON MAY CC:MAIL ACCOUNT. CURTIS L SMITH INTEL CORP ***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***. Subject: Re: RV-List: John Hovan's web site From: John Hovan <apple.com!hovan(at)matronics.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:48:37 +0000 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 1996
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Aileron Skin Dimpling
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Cc: abell(at)rand.org > Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Aileron Skin Dimpling > > Randall Henderson cites Art Chard's idea for dimpling the aileron skin > that might be modified as follows: Use the shaft from the Avery > bench-style dimpling and riveting tool with a female dimpling die in it > and a hammer and backplate. You wouldn't even need a rivet set that > accommodates a dimpling die. A rivet gun might be overkill anyway. An > even better idea might be to use a shorter shaft such as the one that comes > with a pneumatic squeezer. That would require less bending of the skin. > > Jack Abell > RV-6A Elevator Someone told me that Art wasn't necessarily a fan of this method, so I guess it didn't come from him as I had said in my original post. Minor point but I thought I should correct it. Randall Henderson RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 1996
From: gil(at)bala.HAC.COM (Gil Alexander)
Subject: Re: Autopilots
RV-listers, He spoke at our last Chapter 40 EAA meeting. He also sells IvoProps (he make the electronic constant speed control unit for Ivo) and a neat Electronic Ignition magneto replacement. The units seemed quite well made. On some homebuilts with sensitive pitch, the spring actuation may not be sufficient, however for wing levelling and GPS tracking he claims good results. The unit does respond to both slow and fast (i.e. turbulence) inputs and is basically a "heading maintainer" driven by a GPS output. Since the GPS only has about a 1 second update rate, an additional motion based sensor is used for the turbulence induced corrections. The hook up is via springs and large RC servo units (nicely cost effective -- BTW, the MAC servos we use are loosely based on the old Kraft RC servo technology - both from Vista, CA.). The physical aileron hook-up seems identical to Vans optional "manual aileron trim" hookup. I would guess that the manual trim lever could be replaced by the RC servo, the same springs used, and manual trim would be achieved by means of the panel mounted trim knob on the control unit. He regards the spring hookup as part of the safety system, allowing user overide at any time. Seems to be a neat application of GPS technology. Sounds like we should get one of the flying RV-listers to try it out ..... :^) ... if it works well, it's a lot cheaper than the Navaid unit. He has several units out flying, but I'm not sure if any are installed in a RV. Any volunteers?? Personally, I am going to buy one of his Electronic ignition units as soon as I start intalling my engine. I presently have a 1800 TT O-320-E2G with two Slick "throw-away" mags that are now deemed unairworthy by Slick ... :^( The electronic ignition unit is approximately the same price as a new exchange mag., with a claimed 8 to 10 percent savings in cruise fuel consumption, purely by getting the correct ignition timing based on rpm and manifold pressure. One mag. and one elec. ign. unit seems a good compromise between technolgy and back-up systems. ... Gil Alexander gil(at)rassp.hac.com RV-6A, #20701 .... canopy and internal stuff, going on vacation back to England this week, will see if Andair fuel selector valves are any cheaper there .. :^) >He uses model airplane servos with springs to control the ailerons and >elevator on your RV. I think in turbulence I would like a little more >positive control, and a means to disconnect it if necessary. > >Fred Stucklen Rv-6A N925RV > > > >>Has anyone checked out the autopilots and fuel injection systems availible >>through Empire Development? Check out the home page at >>http://user.aol.com/chanik/ed. The three axis autopilot is selling for >>$700. Sounds to good to be true. >> >>Here is the discription: >> >> >>The SE5b is a tri-axis trim-tab autopilot, implementing pitch and roll >>control with 1/4-scale servo motors and relying, for its input, on a >>combination ofGPS or Loran receiver for heading/bearing/XTE information, a >>solid-state pressure sensor for altitude data and dual tilt >>sensors for improved system response. The unit operates in any of these >>three modes: >>I) Conventional electric trim control (default), via a push-button quad. >>II) Match bearing, when the unit adjusts roll trim in order to track heading >>to way-point bearing. >>III) Hold heading, when the unit tracks to maintain the current heading. >>In either mode II or III, the unit holds pressure altitude to that which was >>recorded when the unit was engaged. The SE5b can read NMEA-0183b format from >>the GPS/Loran and will hold +/-2deg on heading and +/-50ft on altitude. The >>unit draws 2 Amps, and includes servo reversing and an LED mode/status >>indicator. This system is intended for day-VFR use only. Cost is $699.00 >>complete with two trim servos, connection hardware, LED mode indicator and 4 >>micro push-button switches. (The 2-axis version is $599.00 with one servo.) >>The unit even has provisions to accept future upgrades to the flight control >>software. High-Torque servos for direct connection to control linkages are >>available for an additional $30 per axis. There is a 60-day money-back >>guarantee as well as a 1-year warranty. >> >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 1996
From: Robert Acker <75104.3077(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: R. M. Encoder as Stall Warning Device
>> Would it be acceptable to use the Rocky MTN. Encoder for your stall warning? I have one in my RV-6 and can set alarms for any speeds that I want on the high as well as the low end, it has provisions for high stall speed and low stall speed and for yellow line and red line I have mine set to give me a warning if I get slower than I want on approch I get a warning and had better wake up and do something about and also about 5 mph above actual stall speed. << I plan on one of these in my panel...this message, and the replies so far got me thinking (all theoretical mind you). Assuming wings-level Vso at gross of 56 mph: 30 deg. bank = 64 mph Vs 40 deg. bank = 73 mph 45 deg. bank = 79 mph 50 deg. bank = 87 mph 60 deg. bank - 112 mph (yikes!) Again, assume keeping your "in pattern" banks at 40 deg. or less, and a 1.3 Vso approach speed (...are these reasonable assumptions? I know in the 172 they are, but I have no pattern flying experience in an RV). How 'bout setting the "hey dummy, wake up and do something now" high speed stall warning at about 78 mph (just above the 40 deg. bank stall) to keep you out of stall/spin trouble during base and final turns, and the low limit at about 68 mph (comfortably above wings-level stall, but giving warning when getting too slow on final)? Now, if somebody has a cost-effective and simple AOA device, THAT would be the best solution (and be the first thing in my panel). Rob. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
Date: Feb 26, 1996
Subject: Re: Autopilots
Fred, He offers high torque servo's for $30 per axis for direct connection to control linkages, bringing the total price to $790. The disconnect is accomplished by pushing the pitch control for one second which reverts the system to electric trim only (Mode I). Ross Mickey >He uses model airplane servos with springs to control the ailerons and >elevator on your RV. I think in turbulence I would like a little more >positive control, and a means to disconnect it if necessary. > >Fred Stucklen Rv-6A N925RV > > > >>Has anyone checked out the autopilots and fuel injection systems availible >>through Empire Development? Check out the home page at >>http://user.aol.com/chanik/ed. The three axis autopilot is selling for >>$700. Sounds to good to be true. >> >>Here is the discription: >> >> >>The SE5b is a tri-axis trim-tab autopilot, implementing pitch and roll >>control with 1/4-scale servo motors and relying, for its input, on a >>combination ofGPS or Loran receiver for heading/bearing/XTE information, a >>solid-state pressure sensor for altitude data and dual tilt >>sensors for improved system response. The unit operates in any of these >>three modes: >>I) Conventional electric trim control (default), via a push-button quad. >>II) Match bearing, when the unit adjusts roll trim in order to track heading >>to way-point bearing. >>III) Hold heading, when the unit tracks to maintain the current heading. >>In either mode II or III, the unit holds pressure altitude to that which was >>recorded when the unit was engaged. The SE5b can read NMEA-0183b format from >>the GPS/Loran and will hold +/-2deg on heading and +/-50ft on altitude. The >>unit draws 2 Amps, and includes servo reversing and an LED mode/status >>indicator. This system is intended for day-VFR use only. Cost is $699.00 >>complete with two trim servos, connection hardware, LED mode indicator and 4 >>micro push-button switches. (The 2-axis version is $599.00 with one servo.) >>The unit even has provisions to accept future upgrades to the flight control >>software. High-Torque servos for direct connection to control linkages are >>available for an additional $30 per axis. There is a 60-day money-back >>guarantee as well as a 1-year warranty. >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: gretzw(at)tcplink.nrel.gov
Date: Feb 26, 1996
Subject: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question
Don't forget guys that there are such things as multi-band, or multi-frequency, transmit and receive antennas. Some of the VOR receive antennas are designed to also receive glideslope signals without signal loss. I have recently swept some aircraft antennas and have found this to be true. Check with the manufacture to see what frequencies the antenna was designed for. Warren Gretz RV-6 N0FVG ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: RV-List: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question Date: 2/26/96 12:02 PM >'ve been working with radios and RF since the days when they had tubes >in them. Pick up any book on antenna design and you will quickly see >that the length of the antenna needs to be tuned to the frequency you >want to receive. Yes, you could use a VOR antenna to receive glideslope >signals. HOWEVER, you would be working with a de-tuned antenna. >Performance will be suboptimal. In a receive-only situation (like the >glideslope receiver) you can get away with this if you are willing to >live with the performance penalty. With a *transmitter*, this is >strictly a no-no. > >As to the length of the coax: SOME radios and SOME antennas are sensitive >to the length of the feedline. For example the antenna on my HF ham >transmitter at home does not care how long the feedline is, as long as it >is at least 60 feet in length. Unless the installation instructions >accompanying the radio or the antenna specifically call out requirements >for feedline lengths, you don't have to worry about it. The RG-58 coax >should present a constant 50 ohms impedance no matter what its length. > >Best Regards, >Dave Barnhart >rv-6 sn 23744 >N601DB >Ham radio WB7OBG Dan, I too agree with what you are saying, BUT, does what you loose in receiver performance really made a percieved difference? I think not, especially when you look at what level of performance that is necessary on a LOC/GLIDE SLOPE, or marker beacon. The amount of degragation in signal strength due to the receiver antenna mismatch in minor compared to the actual signal available. Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV WA1LWB wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1996
From: Stephen Bell <steve(at)discus.lincoln.ac.nz>
Subject: Stagnation point (Was stall warning device)
Hi all, For those who were interested in building stall warning devices i did some quick 'n' dirty calculations on the NACA 23015 airfoil, (I think thats the right airfoil, I don't have my vans manual or plans here to check) I think the vans manual says its a modified NACA23015, I wouldn't expect that to affect these calculations much. at RE 1500000 Ncrit 9.0 AoA 19deg no flap ( from polar calculations ) surface velocity plot puts the stagnation point on the lower surface at .06 x chord AoA 10deg .02 x crd AoA 15deg .045 x crd Aoa 15deg 10%flap 40deg .06 x crd Aoa 19deg 10%flap 40deg .06+ x crd (slightly further back than 15deg ) On an RV6 the 10 deg AoA point would be about 1 1/8" back from the LE 2 1/2" looks like the spot for a stall warning stagnation point. This should help you get an idea of the airflow around the wing at these angles of attack so you can work out the details of the stall warning device. Anyone care to double check the numbers??. Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Stephen Bell | Lincoln University, \--------------------(*)--------------------/ Canterbury, New Zealand. NIMBUS II - Driver XX RV 6 - Growing in the garage. E-Mail: S.Bell(at)ono.lincoln.ac.nz work steve(at)discus.lincoln.ac.nz play ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Feb 26, 1996
Subject: Re: Metal jigs
>I may have missed it but how do you contact Frey to get a metal jig and >does any one know how much he wants to rent it. I have another RV-6 friend >in town and he needs a jig now!! If anyone has a wood jig for sale in the >Southwest let me know. We live in Las Cruces NM. > >Bob Busick >RV-6 >rbusick(at)nmsu.edu > > Stephen R. Frey Engineering & Development 610-692-3553 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
Subject: R. M. Encoder as Stall Warning Device (fwd)
Date: Feb 26, 1996
> > Assuming wings-level Vso at gross of 56 mph: > > 30 deg. bank = 64 mph Vs > 40 deg. bank = 73 mph > 45 deg. bank = 79 mph > 50 deg. bank = 87 mph > 60 deg. bank - 112 mph (yikes!) > Two things, the 112 mph sounds too high. I thought in a 60 deg. bank you are pulling 2 G's so the stall should be the sq. root of 2 or 1.414 times 56 = 79 mph. I don't have any references here but that would be my guess. Second, these speeds are really based on G load, that is 2 G's at 60 deg. bank in a normal straight and level turn. You can do a 60 deg bank and not load up the G's and it will not stall. You can also load up the G's without any bank and it will stall at this higher airspeed (just pull back hard on the stick). Herman Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: elevator redesign??
> Has anybody had success with the spray in foam? Somebody suggested this >as a fix some time ago. > > Chris > Chris, Vans RVator had a blurb on the foam a few years back. As I recall, said that it would come unstuck fairly soon and didn't seem to work. I think that they switched to a type of injectable latex, like the stuff that comes in a tube to seal things. But don't hold my feet to the fire on this. There was an article dicussing this in the RVator. John D RV6 #N61764 completed. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: aileron buffet
> >>n a max aileron deflection at normal speeds, << Come on guys, give me a break! I appreciate your concern and interest for my safety, but I guess that I didn't make myself clear. To me, mormal speed for a max surface defection IS at or below 'manuevering speed'. I ain't out there honking it around at 210. But thanks for all of the input, I now think that I must have built it right, if it's acting like all of the rest of them. Thanks again for the peace of mind you guys have given me. John D RV6 N61764 completed. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: elevator redesign??
> Has anybody had success with the spray in foam? Somebody suggested this >as a fix some time ago. > > Chris Chris, I thought of something as I signed off. The last time I talked with Martin Sutter, he said that he had used spray foam in his elev., added it after flying a couple or three years. Said he drilled some holes in the front spar (didn't mention the skin ) and used a tube to get it to the rear. I don't know what kind he used, but at that time he was pleased with the results. Maybe if some one in the Dallas/Ft worth area that sees him often can get a word with him and find out what he used. At least someone has done it with apparent success, so you may be on the right track. John D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 26, 1996
Subject: Re: R. M. Encoder as Stall Warning Device
>Assuming wings-level Vso at gross of 56 mph: > >30 deg. bank = 64 mph Vs >40 deg. bank = 73 mph >45 deg. bank = 79 mph >50 deg. bank = 87 mph >60 deg. bank - 112 mph (yikes!) Yikes is right - I'd sure hate to fly this airplane. Luckily we don't have to. I think you are confusing an increase in stall speed with an increase in the load factor. In a 60 degree bank, the load factor doubles (not the stall speed). i.e.: the airplane will *weigh* twice as much, but the stall speed will increase by about 40%, or roughly 78mph. -- Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 27, 1996
Subject: Re: R. M. Encoder as Stall Warning Device
There was just a posting about an AOA sensor that could be built. It was in the January 1979 issue of Sport Aviation, page 43. I have a copy and will send a copy to anyone who wants one if you will send me a self addressed stamped envelope. I can' put it on the list because it has some drawings that show how to make it. Jim Cone 422 Savannah Ridge Drive St. Charles, MO 63303 jamescone(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1996
From: Robert Acker <75104.3077(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: R. M. Encoder as Stall Warning Device
>> I thought in a 60 deg. bank you are pulling 2 G's so the stall should be the sq. root of 2 or 1.414 times 56 = 79 mph. << You thought right ...boy did I have a major brain lapse!!! I forgot the square root of g load first, before multiplying Vso. >> Second, these speeds are really based on G load, that is 2 G's at 60 deg. bank in a normal straight and level turn. You can do a 60 deg bank and not load up the G's and it will not stall. You can also load up the G's without any bank and it will stall at this higher airspeed (just pull back hard on the stick). << Correct on all points again. However, I recall the basic premise of the original message was using the two stall speed warnings in the pattern, as a safety item (getting too slow too close to terra firma). I don't know about others, but I generally don't go around the pattern in 60 deg. banks (or any other angle) yanking the stick every which way. I assumed S&L or descending (reduced loading) turns. Rob (getting some sleep now, so I don't post messages forgetting to take the square roots of very important numbers...). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KUKULSKIM(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 27, 1996
Subject: Re: R. M. Encoder as Stall Warning Device
You wrote:


February 19, 1996 - February 27, 1996

RV-Archive.digest.vol-bc