RV-Archive.digest.vol-bc
February 19, 1996 - February 27, 1996
| Subject: | Re: Rudder spar location?? |
John
The information you seek is on SK6-1 in my plans. It is one of those fold out
sheets with the skin layouts on them at the back of the section.
RV4 Pat A @aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Flap Hinge Pins (fwd) |
Yes, this is typical. You have to use a drill to push in that much pin
on the flaps.
The mod that Van published some time back is to open up about a 2 inch
section in the center of the flap hinge and then make the flap hinge
pin be two pins. You slip one pin in from the center of the flap out
toward the wing tip and the other from the center in toward the fuselage.
You can then bend a 90degree bend on each end of the pin and then safety
wire them together.
I did this on my 4 and it worked out fine. Much better than forcing that
long pin and trying to clear the fuselage.
> From root Mon Feb 19 17:40:47 1996
> Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
> Message-Id: <v01510100ad4ea20c3619@[204.248.40.69]>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 16:02:40 -0600
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> From: midwest.net!crazer(at)matronics.com (Chester Razer)
> Subject: RV-List: Flap Hinge Pins
> Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Precedence: junk
> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> I've just fitted my second flap and took extraordinary care when squeezing
> the rivets that hold the hinge on both the flap and the wing skin. I have
> to use an electric drill to turn and push the hinge pin in when hanging the
> flap. I'd like to know if anyone else has this problem and what I can do
> to manually install the pin without the use of a drill.
>
> Chet Razer
> crazer(at)midwest.net
>
>
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Hinge Pins |
>I've just fitted my second flap and took extraordinary care when squeezing
>the rivets that hold the hinge on both the flap and the wing skin. I have
>to use an electric drill to turn and push the hinge pin in when hanging the
>flap. I'd like to know if anyone else has this problem and what I can do
>to manually install the pin without the use of a drill.
>
>Chet Razer
>crazer(at)midwest.net
Chet: Did you cut the hinge pin in two and remove several hinge loops in
the center of the length of hinge? This will help a little. The other
thing you might try is a trick I used on my horizontal cowl hinge pins. I
chucked the pins in a drill and Scotch-brited all of the cad plating off. I
then de-greased the pin and gave it a light coat of "Moly Coat G" (a
molybdedum disulfide (sp)). For inserting the pin, I bent a 90 degree end
about 2 /12-3 inches long. I then drilled a hole a little larger diameter
than the pin in the end of a piece of scrap 1/2" plywood, slid the pin into
the hole (the wood piece would now be perpendicular (gotta get a spell
checker for this thing) to the wing. You can then use the wood to put
pressure on the pin to slide it into place. I found I had to use the wood
piece as I couldn't get my fingers into the gap between the wing and flap
and get any kind of leverage. You might slide the Moly coated pin into the
flap and wing portion of the hinge loops to transfer a little on all
surfaces. It takes very little of this product. I thought this product
would work pretty good and not drain off to contaminate surfaces that will
be painted later. A half inch bead of this stuff about the diameter of a #2
pencil lead should do all of the hinges. Better use too little- you can
always use more. Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: VOR Antennas (fwd) |
> > VOR!!! Who needs an ugly VOR antenna hanging out in the wing these days?
> > The last thing I would want on my RV is an ugly VOR antenna on it.
> > Just install a GPS and go fly.
> > Even my hand held comm radio gives me a VOR fix with the normal comm antenna.
> > Some of you IFR types may want a VOR, OK. Don't send me flame mail.
> > Herman
Of course. VOR technology is obsolete for VFR flight, and fast
approaching obsolescence for IFR flight. I'd never consider installing
a VOR if I was only going VFR. BUT... for IFR, a VOR/ILS with glideslope
is still the only game in town for most precision approaches. And even
if you DO want to pay Jeppesen the exorbitant fees they charge for the
REQUIRED GPS IFR updates ($500/yr last time I looked), the IFR GPSs still
aren't quite ready to replace the entire IFR approach structure
currently in place.
I won't put any more antennas on my plane than I have to, but if by the
time I finish my plane I can't rely on a GPS for enroute and
approaches, there may have to be at least one VOR antenna sticking out
somewhere. :-( (Although by the time I get my plane done, VORs will be
something only really old guys remember anything about .)
> I'm not an IFR pilot, but do you need a VOR for IFR flight?
No. You need "Two-way radio communications system and navigational
equipment appropriate to the ground facilities to be used." (FAR 91.205
(d)(3).) But for practical IFR in the states anyway that usually means
VOR, ARNAV, or IFR GPS.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen ) |
| Subject: | Re: VOR Antennas (fwd) |
What you need to know about comm and VOR antennas is this:
You really need a "line-of-sight" (unobstructed path) between the
antenna and the ground station for maximum reception. Since the RVs
are made of aluminum, the skin will act as a barrier (shield) to the
radio signals. Also (apart from the root of the antenna) there
probably should be a distance of about the same length as the antenna,
or more to the nearest piece of metal. That's why I don't understand
how builders can get away with putting them (inside?) the fiberglass
wing tips).
Finn
You wrote:
>
> I'm not an IFR pilot, but do you need a VOR for IFR flight?
I do
>not like antennas outside the airframe, so I would have to agree with
>Herman.
>
> A possible reason for production airplanes putting the VOR on
the
>tail might be that is the most cost efficient place or way to do it.
I
>have found that production aircraft are built to minimize production
costs
>and then just to meet minimum mission requirements.
>
> How about placing the antenna inside the cockpit just under
the
>canopy in the baggage area?
>
>Bob Busick
>RV-6
>rbusick(at)nmsu.edu
>
>> VOR!!! Who needs an ugly VOR antenna hanging out in the wing these
days?
>> The last thing I would want on my RV is an ugly VOR antenna on it.
>> Just install a GPS and go fly.
>> Even my hand held comm radio gives me a VOR fix with the normal comm
antenna.
>> Some of you IFR types may want a VOR, OK. Don't send me flame mail.
>> Herman
>>
>>>
>>> I am very close to completing the skeleton for the VS on my '6
and am
>>> wondering if I need to mount the VOR antenna in it before
skinning.
>>> How have other builders handled this? Is there enough room
between
>>> the top rib and the fiberglass cap to install it later, or
does it
>>> have to be mounted now? I am not really comfortable with
putting them
>>> in the wing tips as some others have done, as it seems that it
would
>>> cause some "blanking". There must be some reason for all of
the
>>> production a/c put it on the tail.
>>>
>>> Also what is the feeling about the wire type vs the "Towel
Rack" kind?
>>>
>>> Scott Fink
>>> RV6 HS done, VS rear spar drilled
>>>
>>
>>Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
>>mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HowardRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Hinge Pins |
As I will soon be installing flaps, what caused the problem??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: VOR Antennas |
>> >
>> > Also what is the feeling about the wire type vs the "Towel Rack" kind?
>>
>> Around my part of RV land we put them on the bottom of the tailcone in front
>> of the tailwheel spring. Works great and it doesn't poke your eyes out when
>> you or others walk around the airplane.
>>
>Any problems with getting bent or anything from catching weeds, etc. down
there?
>
>Randall Henderson
>RV-6
>
Nobody has bent one around here. They receive well too.
Regards:
Rusty
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Counterbalance |
Don't mess with the aileron counterweights. They work fine as designed, to
speeds way over what any normal RV will be traveling- in exess of 275 MPH
indicated!
Ben there, done that- sure had my attention..
Check Six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
You wrote:
>
>I have ordered my first kit froms Vans and need to get some of the
>metal working tools. I am interested to know of the experiences
>other builders have had with the packaged deals some companys offer.
>I especially would like to know of any outstanding deals or poor
>deals.
>
>Thanks for any info.
>
>Charles Wilmer, Jr.
>Sheridan, WY
>cwilmer(at)wave.sheridan.wy.us
>
Get your aviation specific tools (rivet squeezer, rivet gun, etc, etc)
from Avery or Cleaveland. Get the other stuff (air compressor, drill
press, etc, etc) from wherever. I am passing along this recommendation
that I have received from the vast majority of experienced builders.
Best of luck.
Bill Costello
--
___ _______________________
\ \ _ _ / /
\ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello \
X-*#####*******......./ Chicago /
o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on emp. \
\__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com /
\______________________\
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Stab Problem RV4 |
>Anyway the rear bulkhead in my fuselage is not plumb, it is tilted forward
at the top >approx 3/8 to 1/2 inch from plumb. The bottom is in the correct
position (tail
>spring mount is correct). What this means is that the vertical stab is not
>flush with the bulkhead because the forward bottom of the stab hits the top
>of the fuselage as it is tipped forward toward the rear bulkhead. Follow me
>so far.
>
>I think I can fix this one of two ways, 1. Using a larger angle on the
>top of the rear fuselage and letting it hang over the back slightly (1/2 the
>error) and bolting the vertical stab to this as per plans. The other half of
>the error could be removed by triming the front bottom of the stab to allow
>it to fit.
>I personally am leaning toward the first method. The stab will be attached
>in the same manner as it would be normally, the only differance being, there
>would be a gap between the vert. stab spar and the rear bulkhead of the
>fuselage.
>
>Joe Hine
>joehine(at)mi.net
>506-452-1072 Home
>506-452-3495 Work
>
Joe: I think the first method will work, but this is sure a problem that I
would contact the factory about. Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KUKULSKIM(at)aol.com |
You wrote:
>I have ordered my first kit froms Vans and need to get some of the
>metal working tools. I am interested to know of the experiences
>other builders have had with the packaged deals some companys offer.
>I especially would like to know of any outstanding deals or poor
>deals
I am familiar with three reputable companies that offer metal aircraft
tool packages, in fact, that are specifically aimed at the RV servies .
They are (in no particular order):
1. Avery Enterprises: 817-439-8400. My dated 1994 catalog shows a
starter kit for $464.25 (and a special sales price then of $427. Their
Deluxe kit lists at $1110.25, sales price of $999. This kit has some very
good tools in it from my experience (for example, it starts you off with
a deep throat rivet/dimple arbor (very useful) and a Tatco rivet
squeezer, a $126 tool in itself that is far superior to other makes).
2. Cleaveland Aircraft Tool and Material: 515-432-6794. 1995 catalog
lists a empennage tool package for $556. This kit seems very basic, but
my experience with Cleaveland (owner Buzz Lauritsen's RV-4 was the 1989
Oshkosh Kit-Built Champion) it that everything he offers is of top-notcg
quality. His dimple dies are easily the best I have seen to date. Buzz's
wife, DJ, offers interior kits and conapy covers as well.
3. U.S. Industrial Tool & Supply Company: 1-800-521-4800. Offers a "Kit
Builder's Kit" for $665, very basic package. Also offers a Master Tool
Kit for $770. The Master Tool Kit is what I bought back in 1989 and
essentially what I built my tail with. The tools have all served me well,
with the exception of a lower quality rivet squeezer.
I was happy with the tools I bought, but I have added considerably from
both Avery and Cleaveland. If I were to be starting now, I would get
Avery's Deluxe tool set for $999 and augment with additional tools from
both Avery and Cleaveland as desire and budget allows. Remember the old
advice, and I paraphrase - buy a cheap tool, and it will end up costing
you more when you finally buy what you should have in the first place.
Don't skimp up front if you're serious about building an RV.
That my $0.02 worth. Hope it helps.
Mike Kukulski (kukulskim(at)aol.com)
RV-4 N96MK (Attaching empennage)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flap Hinge Pins |
I had the same trouble, seems common. Vans put out the word some time back
about making it two piece hinge. Cut in the middle, cut out a couple
sections of hinge mat., slide pins in from center to ouboard and to inboard.
It's in the vans RVATOR. I did this plus I first used a little valve
lapping compound. With pin out, put a little compound on the pin, use drill
and work it a ways in, out and more compound, back in and keep it up. Soon
the hinge wears enough that the pin will go in OK with out the drill and
just a little grease on it. I know, it has worn away some of the hinge
material, so it may last only 40 years instead of a life time! Hasn't
'loosened' up the fit that I can tell. I don't worry about if the plane will
fly without the flaps, 'cause I don't think they will falloff.
John D RV6 completed.
>I've just fitted my second flap and took extraordinary care when squeezing
>the rivets that hold the hinge on both the flap and the wing skin. I have
>to use an electric drill to turn and push the hinge pin in when hanging the
>flap. I'd like to know if anyone else has this problem and what I can do
>to manually install the pin without the use of a drill.
>
>Chet Razer
>crazer(at)midwest.net
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Stab Problem RV4 |
Can't visulize just how much it is off. If it makes you feel any better,
mine didn't fit perfectly either. But it was close enough that I could bolt
the spar on, and then force the forward end of the stab. thats over the
fuse. part up enough so that I could fit it. I'm left with some tension on
the spar, it is bent(the spar) very slightly, but not where you can see it.
I had to force it into place, clamp it to drill the holes. Incidentally,
those holes to drill were about as hard to get to as were the ones for the
canopy hinge pins(tilt canopy). John D RV6 completed.
>Okay Guys, here goes,
>
>I've made a couple of errors while building my 4, but this seem to be the
>biggie so far--I'm a bit embarrassed to tell the world about this one.
>
>I began assembling the tail surfaces to my fuselage the other day and I have
>discovered what appears to be a big problem. It appears the last member of
>the jig, the small piece at the end was not vertical, I have check the jig
>and the cross member at the rear that the small piece of 2 X 4 was nailed
>to had a twist to it and I obvously didn't check it enough. Anyway the rear
>bulkhead in my fuselage is not plumb, it is tilted forward at the top approx
>3/8 to 1/2 inch from plumb. The bottom is in the correct position (tail
>spring mount is correct). What this means is that the vertical stab is not
>flush with the bulkhead because the forward bottom of the stab hits the top
>of the fuselage as it is tipped forward toward the rear bulkhead. Follow me
>so far.
>
>I think I can fix this one of two ways, 1. Using a larger angle on the
>top of the rear fuselage and letting it hang over the back slightly (1/2 the
>error) and bolting the vertical stab to this as per plans. The other half of
>the error could be removed by triming the front bottom of the stab to allow
>it to fit. 2. Building a new vertical stabiliser and redoing it by
>changing the angle of the bottom ribs to allow the stab to fit. This would
>result in a stab tipped forward slightly. I have no idea if this would
>cause any problems.
>
>I personally am leaning toward the first method. The stab will be attached
>in the same manner as it would be normally, the only differance being, there
>would be a gap between the vert. stab spar and the rear bulkhead of the
>fuselage.
>
>Finding this error made me franticly measure everything else I could find on
>the fuselage but fortunately no further problems were found.
>
>Any thoughts will be most welcome.
>
>Joe Hine
>joehine(at)mi.net
>506-452-1072 Home
>506-452-3495 Work
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark D Hiatt" <OttoPilot_MSN(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | RVator Subscription? |
My fist and last RVator was the "Dec 95" issue with the Mazda-powered
RV-4 on the cover.
Has there been one, since then? When does it normally come out?
I got a subscription with the plans and info kit and so on, but so far,
only that single issue.
Mark D Hiatt
OttoPilot_MSN
Aviation Forum Manager,
The Microsoft Network
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | meehan(at)coopext.cahe.wsu.edu (Don Meehan) |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Counterbalance (fwd) |
If I recall, you DO NOT fool with these! They are already balanced for what
is needed for the design of that particular control system. They should not
be balanced in the same fashion as the elevators. I beleive Van will tell
you to leave them alone! check before you do.
Don Meehan
> I think these come out very close to being balanced.
> When the ailerons are installed on the wing with the hinges, just
> see if they stay in position.
> If you needed to add some weight, you could stuff a wad of AL foil
> in one end and push it in sevral inches and then poor some melted
> lead into the end. If it is then too heavy, drill out some of the lead.
> With the pop rivets into the pipe to hole the AL leading edge, that
> should hold the lead in.
>>
>> A new subject for debate;
>>
>> The ailerons on the RV-6 are counterbalenced with a galvanized steel pipe.
>> The pipe is cut to a specific length and riveted to the aileron skeleton.
>> Unlike the elevators, where you mass balanced the the entire surface, the
>> ailerons may not be balanced, but are counterweighted.
>>
>> I was thinking about flutter being a very serious and deadly concern with
>> ailerons. Would it not be better to mass balance the ailerons, instead of
>> just getting close with a counterweight? Or maybe we are suppose to
>> balance the surface once it it mounted? And how would you do this if you
>> needed to subtract weight?
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> Bob Busick
>> RV-6
>> rbusick(at)nmsu.edu
>
>Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
>mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
>
>
>
Don Meehan
WSU Cooperative Extension
Island County
Coupeville, WA 98239-5000
206-679-7327
meehan(at)wsu.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KUKULSKIM(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Stab Problem RV4 |
You wrote:
>the rear
>bulkhead in my fuselage is not plumb, it is tilted forward at the top approx
>3/8 to 1/2 inch from plumb. The bottom is in the correct position (tail
>spring mount is correct). What this means is that the vertical stab is not
>flush with the bulkhead because the forward bottom of the stab hits the top
>of the fuselage as it is tipped forward toward the rear bulkhead.
OUCH! I just finished attaching the vertical stab on my RV-4 today. I had
a very slight deviation from perfectly plumb, but I could fix mine by
trimming the forward bottom of the stab skin about 1/8" or so. It still
is not perfectly plumb, but you'd have to drop a plumb line to see it.
I would be hesitant to extend your top attachment angle out and have so
much of the vertical stab not lie flush against the F-412 tail bulkhead.
This flush fit would appear to be structural to me. My gut feel is that
either the fit of your F-412 bulkhead must be corrected by drilling out
and re-riveting it in the correct place, or by fabricating some kind of
tapered spacer to bring the stab spar into plumb and allow a direct
transfer of loads from the spar to the bulkhead. I think a call to Van's
is definitely in order to get their recommended approach before doing
anything
Mike Kukulski (kukulskim(at)aol.com)
RV-4 N96MK (Attaching empennage).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VOR Antennas |
On Mon, 19 Feb 1996, Scott Fink wrote:
> I am very close to completing the skeleton for the VS on my '6 and am
> wondering if I need to mount the VOR antenna in it before skinning.
> How have other builders handled this?
Well, if I install a VOR, I'll probably put the antenna either on the
bottom of the fuselage between the wings or under the H.S. It seems to
me that if you put it at the top if the tail of a '6, it would be in the
way and people would keep running into it.
But if you are going to install it at the top of the VS, then just do two
things for now:
1. Dril a hole in each VS rib for the coax to pass through. Install a
snap bushing in each hole, then run a length of string through them so
that you can pull the coax through later.
2. Don't attach the fiberglass tip to the VS yet. Leave it off until you
actually install the antenna
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
N601DB
Jigging the fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott.Fink(at)Microchip.COM (scott fink) |
Jim Ayers
I got several replies about mounting the antenna under the HS on the
fuselage. I wonder about reflections and ground plane interference
from the HS. Yes, I do intend on at least making the plane IFR ready,
I have gotten stuck too many times under a low overcast or in lousy
visibility and couldn't get home when I wanted to, even spent a couple
of days in some places, although a couple of extra days in San Diego
wasn't so bad! ;-)
Is Bob Archer reacheable on the list or the net? I am a BSEE, but not
well versed in the Black Arts of RF design, so talking to a guru could
be very helpful. Where can I get more info on the Sport Aircraft
antenna?
Thought about the eye poking problem with the whisker antennas, that
is one reason for the towel rack type, they also have some better
specs. (look cooler too, but putting them under the HS could lead some
people to use them for hand holds)
If this is getting to much for the list, direct mail me at
scott.fink(at)microchip.com
Best Regards,
Scott Fink
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-List: VOR Antennas
Internet_Exchange
Date: 2/19/96 7:12 PM
>Scott Fink said;
>I am very close to completing the skeleton for the VS on my '6 and am
>wondering if I need to mount the VOR antenna in it before skinning.
>How have other builders handled this? Is there enough room between
>the top rib and the fiberglass cap to install it later, or does it
>have to be mounted now? I am not really comfortable with putting them
>in the wing tips as some others have done, as it seems that it would
>cause some "blanking". There must be some reason for all of the
>production a/c put it on the tail.
IMHO, the production aircraft mount the antennas where they do because that's
what they have
always done. It's called a paradigm. And you're right. Mounting the dipole
antenna in the wing tip doesn't work as well as on the tail in some directions.
If you want to take advantage of a working lifetime of antenna design and
testing experience,
install the Sport Aircraft Model 1 (ACS) Nav antenna in the wing tip. Bob
Archer designed the
Sport Aircraft series of antennas.
>Also what is the feeling about the wire type vs the "Towel Rack" kind?
Don't install the wire type on top the vertical stabilizer facing aft on a
taildragger, unless you like poking yourself in the eye when you bend over to
pick up the tail. BTW, the wire type receivers the about the same regardless of
forward or aft direction. The horizontal stab and the wing blanks and reflects
the signal for either type of antenna on the top of the vertical tail, and it
gets worse the closer the VOR antenna is mounted to the horizontal stab.
(1st Design Theory - Everything is a compromise.)
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
102337.2252(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kightdm(at)carol.net (Danny Kight) |
| Subject: | Fiberglass Filler Question |
I'm (still) in the process of finishing up the empennage on my -6, and I
don't know when to fill all the little gaps between the aluminum and fiberglass.
I am planning to Alumiprep, Alodine, and prime with Crown Metro epoxy primer
(the Boeing stuff) on all exterior surfaces. (Interior is Alumiprep and
Zinc Chromate). The tip joints will be filled with an epoxy/microballoon
paste. I riveted the fiberglass tips on today.
Can anybody offer some insight on whether to prime first then fill the
cracks, or fill and sand, then prime?
I'm really anxious to finish the empennage and get on to the wings. Those
beautiful Phlogiston spars keep calling for me to get started!
Regards,
Danny Kight kightdm(at)carol.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ayers <102337.2252(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | VOR Antennas (fwd) |
>Finn Lassen said,
>What you need to know about comm and VOR antennas is this:
>You really need a "line-of-sight" (unobstructed path) between the
>antenna and the ground station for maximum reception. Since the RVs
>are made of aluminum, the skin will act as a barrier (shield) to the
>radio signals. Also (apart from the root of the antenna) there
>probably should be a distance of about the same length as the antenna,
>or more to the nearest piece of metal. That's why I don't understand
>how builders can get away with putting them (inside?) the fiberglass
>wing tips.
If you use an antenna designed specifically for the inside of the wing tip, then
it will work as good as an antenna mounted on top of the vertical stabilizer.
However, I agree with Finn. I don't understand how they work either. But if
you want to find out, Bob Archer will be giving his antenna presentation at
Lakeland this year.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
102337.2252(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DougPage(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Engine overhaul video |
I purchased an airplane engine overhaul video from Seminar Publishers Suite
1102, 210 Fifth Avenue, New York NY 10010. It seems applicable to Lycoming
4cylinder engines such as the 320 and 360. It's title is "How to Overhaul
Airplane Engines" and the order number is BCT-490A. It persuaded me, a
barnyard mechanic, that I could probably overhaul a Lycoming. You need a set
of micrometers and also the Lycoming specs for the particular engine. I am
working on the fuselage of my 6A and have not yet purchased an engine,
although, like everybody else, I am looking. I forget the price of this
video, but I think it was around $40. I make no representations regarding
this video, and I would like to hear from others who have actually used the
video to repair an engine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ayers <102337.2252(at)compuserve.com> |
>Scott Fink said;
>I got several replies about mounting the antenna under the HS on the
>fuselage. I wonder about reflections and ground plane interference
>from the HS. Yes, I do intend on at least making the plane IFR ready,
>I have gotten stuck too many times under a low overcast or in lousy
>visibility and couldn't get home when I wanted to, even spent a couple
>of days in some places, although a couple of extra days in San Diego
>wasn't so bad! ;-)
Bob Archer is an excellent person to talk to about what happens with the
different locations of an
antenna on an aircraft.
>Is Bob Archer reacheable on the list or the net? I am a BSEE, but not
>well versed in the Black Arts of RF design, so talking to a guru could
>be very helpful. Where can I get more info on the Sport Aircraft
>antenna?
I just talked with Bob Archer. Unfortunately he is not on the net. However, he
said that he would
be happy to talk with anyone who is interested in knowing more about antenna
design and antenna
location on an aircraft, as well as specifics about his Sport Aircraft antenna
design.
Bob Archer can be reached at (310) 316-8796.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
102337.2252(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rolf Hankers" <ROLF(at)abraham.iff.ing.tu-bs.de> |
Confirmation of reading: your message -
Date: 18 Feb 96 18:09
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: tools
Was read at 10:02, 20 Feb 96.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rolf Hankers" <ROLF(at)abraham.iff.ing.tu-bs.de> |
| Subject: | rv-accident-summary |
hey,
I am trying to get infos about the NTSB-accident-summaries. Does
someone know how it is possible to get these summaries, or even
better can someone mail the RV-related summaries to me?
Thank you very much.
Rolf Hankers
flying RV-4
ROLF(at)abraham.iff.ing.tu-bs.de
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Hinge Pins |
Join the club! There are a few things you can do. I use dry graphite as a
lubricant; just a dab on each wing hing pin section is enough. This
makes it alot easier. I still need to use a drill the first couple of
times but after that things loosen up and the pin can be driven in all the
way with a small vice grip tapping on it with a hammer.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9176Z
On Mon, 19 Feb 1996, Chester Razer wrote:
> I've just fitted my second flap and took extraordinary care when squeezing
> the rivets that hold the hinge on both the flap and the wing skin. I have
> to use an electric drill to turn and push the hinge pin in when hanging the
> flap. I'd like to know if anyone else has this problem and what I can do
> to manually install the pin without the use of a drill.
>
> Chet Razer
> crazer(at)midwest.net
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: VOR Antennas |
Scott ,
There are two good ways to put a VOR ant. on a RV6. first you can get a ant.
off a c150 c152 and fit it into the cap of the VS , the mounting blocks can
be modified to fit. with the ant. facing back. The second way is I have plans
for a VOR ant. that fit s into the wing tip. I know of at least 6 RV flyers
with this ant. that love it. The only draw back with it is that it can not
be used for glide slope , where the VS mounted one can. If you would like a
copy of the plans let me know...George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
Charles,
If you want a worry free tool buy call Avery Enterprises at 817-439-8400 get
a catolog and order your tools. They stand behind every thing they
sell...Geoge Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Counterbalance |
I had a professional test pilot (with parachute) flutter test my first
RV-4 at 220mph and it did just fine. That's good enough for me.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z getting close!
On Mon, 19 Feb 1996, Robert Busick wrote:
> A new subject for debate;
>
> The ailerons on the RV-6 are counterbalenced with a galvanized steel pipe.
> The pipe is cut to a specific length and riveted to the aileron skeleton.
> Unlike the elevators, where you mass balanced the the entire surface, the
> ailerons may not be balanced, but are counterweighted.
>
> I was thinking about flutter being a very serious and deadly concern with
> ailerons. Would it not be better to mass balance the ailerons, instead of
> just getting close with a counterweight? Or maybe we are suppose to
> balance the surface once it it mounted? And how would you do this if you
> needed to subtract weight?
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Bob Busick
> RV-6
> rbusick(at)nmsu.edu
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Stab Problem RV4 |
IMHO, I would also consider repositioning the bulkhead to its correct
position. This seems like a nightmare but it really shouldn't be to bad
if the fuselage is off the jig. The holes left can be filled with rivets
and some doubler pieces on the inside. I've done this in other places.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
On Mon, 19 Feb 1996, joehine wrote:
> Okay Guys, here goes,
>
> I've made a couple of errors while building my 4, but this seem to be the
> biggie so far--I'm a bit embarrassed to tell the world about this one.
>
> I began assembling the tail surfaces to my fuselage the other day and I have
> discovered what appears to be a big problem. It appears the last member of
> the jig, the small piece at the end was not vertical, I have check the jig
> and the cross member at the rear that the small piece of 2 X 4 was nailed
> to had a twist to it and I obvously didn't check it enough. Anyway the rear
> bulkhead in my fuselage is not plumb, it is tilted forward at the top approx
> 3/8 to 1/2 inch from plumb. The bottom is in the correct position (tail
> spring mount is correct). What this means is that the vertical stab is not
> flush with the bulkhead because the forward bottom of the stab hits the top
> of the fuselage as it is tipped forward toward the rear bulkhead. Follow me
> so far.
>
> I think I can fix this one of two ways, 1. Using a larger angle on the
> top of the rear fuselage and letting it hang over the back slightly (1/2 the
> error) and bolting the vertical stab to this as per plans. The other half of
> the error could be removed by triming the front bottom of the stab to allow
> it to fit. 2. Building a new vertical stabiliser and redoing it by
> changing the angle of the bottom ribs to allow the stab to fit. This would
> result in a stab tipped forward slightly. I have no idea if this would
> cause any problems.
>
> I personally am leaning toward the first method. The stab will be attached
> in the same manner as it would be normally, the only differance being, there
> would be a gap between the vert. stab spar and the rear bulkhead of the
> fuselage.
>
> Finding this error made me franticly measure everything else I could find on
> the fuselage but fortunately no further problems were found.
>
> Any thoughts will be most welcome.
>
> Joe Hine
> joehine(at)mi.net
> 506-452-1072 Home
> 506-452-3495 Work
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Counterbalance |
Sometimes the requirement for flutter protection dictates greater than
100% mass balance(100% = balance, 100%+ = overbalance). That pipe IS a
mass balance weight and was sized by the designer to create an
overbalance condition.
I am not aware of any procedure to check the amount of overbalance
(hanging a known weight at the T.E. and checking for balance). It may
change due to finishing or repairs. Perhaps the amount of overbalance
built in is not likely to be effected by typical builder variations.
David Fried
DF-6 C-____
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RV-List: Re: Aileron Counterbalance
Date: 2/19/96 06:35 PM
A new subject for debate;
The ailerons on the RV-6 are counterbalenced with a galvanized steel pipe.
The pipe is cut to a specific length and riveted to the aileron skeleton.
Unlike the elevators, where you mass balanced the the entire surface, the
ailerons may not be balanced, but are counterweighted.
I was thinking about flutter being a very serious and deadly concern with
ailerons. Would it not be better to mass balance the ailerons, instead of
just getting close with a counterweight? Or maybe we are suppose to
balance the surface once it it mounted? And how would you do this if you
needed to subtract weight?
Any thoughts?
Bob Busick
RV-6
rbusick(at)nmsu.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer) |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Hinge Pins |
Thanks for the info regarding the mod for the flap hinge pin, should have
though of that myself.
For the benefit of those of you who haven't built and installed flaps
I'll share my experiences with you. On my first flap I made the mistake of
using 1/8 x 1/2 (SSF-1) flat set (Cleveland Aircraft Tools) on the
stationary portion of my Tatco Squeezers when installing the hinge to the
trailing edge of the bottom wing skin. There's nothing wrong with that
set, its just the 1/2" diameter contacts the eyes of the hinge and deforms
them slightly unless you eyeball the back side each time. The 1/2" set is
on the blind side of the squeeze and I'ts hard to see. The fix is to drill
out the B/O hinge half and when reinstalling it use a 3/8" dia. set on the
blind side of the squeezer, this smaller dia. set stays out of the hinge
eyes. I make this mistake when installing my trim tab hinge and had to
drill out that hinge also, so yes, I make the same mistake twice.
As far as the new installation goes, I went to great lengths to true all
the components and still ended up with a pin that is stiff going it but I'm
sure it will be manageable by cutting the pin in half and installing each
half from the center of the flap.
One last note, when the pin is installed in either hinge half it slid in
with NO resistance, when the halves are mated and pinned is when the
binding occurres.
Thanks for the help.
Priming and riveting top skins of #2 wing tomorrow.
Chet Razer
crazer(at)midwest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Hinge Pins |
Chester,
It is not uncommond to have to us a drill to get this hinge pin in, not to
worry as long as it does go in and you can get it back out. this pin will
loosen up with time as do most pins...George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Filler Question |
>I am planning to Alumiprep, Alodine, and prime with Crown Metro epoxy primer
>(the Boeing stuff) on all exterior surfaces. (Interior is Alumiprep and
>Zinc Chromate). The tip joints will be filled with an epoxy/microballoon
>paste. I riveted the fiberglass tips on today.
Danny...
If you just fill the gap with epoxy/micro I would be worried about cracking. I
think you either need to fair with a thin layer of F/G cloth & resin with micro
over the top, or even simpler, leave the gap showing. If you ensure that the gap
is of even width , say 1/32, it does not look unattractive after paint.
When I did mine, I filled. If I had to do it again, I would leave the gap.
Regards, Rob Lee - Painting RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Williams <terry(at)is.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rv-accident-summary |
This is what I came across on the web.
http://acro.harvard.edu/GA/ntsbs.html
There are tons of disclaimers about the veracity of the data, but
it is probably reasonable.
tw
There is a search engine that produced this when searching on RV-4
in the aircraft make/model field.
>ACRO.HARVARD.EDU Data__
>
>NTSB Reports
>
>_
>
>Disclaimer: This database may not be complete or up-to-date. Do
not >rely on it in any way. I am not liable if you miss anything.
>
>_
>
>To retrieve several NTSB's at once, click on the check buttons for
>the desired NTSB's, select where to send the NTSB's and in what
>form, then click on the Retrieve button.
>
>_
>
>_01/22/89: TUCSON, AZ, LOSS OF CONTROL - IN FLIGHT, TAKEOFF -
>INITIAL CLIMB, 14 CFR 91_
>) _10/31/89: EATON, OH, LOSS OF CONTROL - IN FLIGHT, CRUISE -
>NORMAL, 14 CFR 91_
>) _05/09/93: GREENWOOD, SC, LOSS OF ENGINE POWER(TOTAL) -
>NON-MECHANICAL, MANEUVERING, 14 CFR 91_
>) _07/24/93: LAKE DELTON, WI, IN FLIGHT COLLISION WITH OBJECT,
>MANEUVERING, 14 CFR 91_
>) _12/26/93: LA VERNE, CA, LOSS OF ENGINE POWER(TOTAL) -
>NON-MECHANICAL, TAKEOFF - INITIAL CLIMB, 14 CFR 91_
>) _04/23/94: WESTON, ID, LOSS OF ENGINE POWER(TOTAL) -
>NON-MECHANICAL, MANEUVERING, 14 CFR 91_
>) _07/17/94: TWISP, WA, HARD LANDING, LANDING, 14 CFR 91_
>) _08/01/94: GLENDIVE, MT, IN FLIGHT COLLISION WITH TERRAIN/WATER,
>TAKEOFF - INITIAL CLIMB, 14 CFR 91_
>) _02/25/95: BRIGHTON, CO, LOSS OF ENGINE POWER, TAKEOFF - INITIAL
>CLIMB, 14 CFR 91_
>) _07/15/95: ELK RIVER, ID, LOSS OF CONTROL - ON GROUND/WATER,
>LANDING - ROLL, 14 CFR 91_
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Hinge Pins |
>I've just fitted my second flap and took extraordinary care when squeezing
>the rivets that hold the hinge on both the flap and the wing skin. I have
>to use an electric drill to turn and push the hinge pin in when hanging the
>flap. I'd like to know if anyone else has this problem and what I can do
>to manually install the pin without the use of a drill.
>
I used a tip in the "14 years of Rvator". Cut out about 3 eyelets in the
center of the hinge, and run 2 shorter pins in from the center. Half as much
hinge to go through, and you can tie the ends together in the center to hold
them. Much easier to install and remove.
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
I'm just starting to wire all the goodies into my 6A. Does anyone have input
that might save me a headache or two? Also, is the 35amp alternator from
Van's sufficient, and reliable? I'm not putting a whole lot of power-hungry
avionics in. Am I correct in assuming that a 35a breaker is correct for this
application?
Also, what are the master and starter diodes for? They're in the Van's
catalog, but I can't figure out what purpose they serve. Any input on the
ISSPRO auto-type gauges? I notice the oil pressure gauge only goes to
100psi. Is this enough? The oil temp gauge only goes down to 140deg, is
that sufficient?
Sorry if this sounds stupid, but my learning curve has just gone vertical
here...
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Prop Extension torque (fwd) |
>
> Does anyone know the proper torque for the 3/8" bolts that attach the
> aluminum 4" propellor extension to the crankcase flange? Bob Skinner RV-6
>
>
Here is a snip from what I wrote up on props, extensions, prop bolts, etc.
For metal props or for bolting prop hub extensions to the crankshaft,
Sensenich recommends the following torque values. Note that this torque
is higher than what is noted in most AN bolt torque tables.
The bolts should be clean and lubricant free.
Bolt Diameter(in) Torque (in-lb) Torque (ft-lb)
AN6 3/8 280 to 300 23 to 25
AN7 7/16 480 to 540 40 to 45
AN8 1/2 720 to 780 60 to 65
If the bolts are over torqued, the bolt may be stretched.
The main problem here is the 3/8 bolts due to their smaller size.
FYI, be advised that in Van's newsletter that they have published bolt
torque values from time to time and as far as I can tell they have all been
wrong for use with prop bolts.
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis
phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831
MS: 9530 fax: 512-838-1801
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | 50w halogen light |
I picked up one of the 12v 50w lights that others have talked about. I got
the "wide" beam one to try out as a taxi light. All the ones I saw don't
have any type of cover on them. Has anyone made a cover out of plexi or
similar? It seems like this bulb puts out a lot of heat and is very close to
where the cover would be.
I don't think it would last long out in the open. Any ideas?
Thanks,
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dls(at)neptune.kpt.arl.psu.edu (Dan Shades) |
| Subject: | Fiberglass on tail |
I have recently finished my tail with exception of the fiberglass tips.
Someone once told me that the fiberglass is best installed just prior to
fitting the tail to the fuselage to prevent damage to them during storage.
Does anyone know of any other advantages/disadvantages of doing this?
Dan Shades
dls(at)neptune.kpt.arl.psu.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark D Hiatt" <OttoPilot_MSN(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | RE: VOR Antennas or GPS-Only? |
After sitting in on the AOPA Town Meeting near here recently and going
over some of the advertising and PIREPS in various places on the net,
I'm going to plan on a GPS-only RV-6A.
There are getting to be more and more, and better and better GPS
receivers on the market. And the handwriting is on the wall for the end
of the VOR-and the rest of the ground-based, radio-based navigation
radios, beacons, beams and what-not, for that matter.
I'm not willing to spend the bucks for a radio that will be obsolete by
the time I get my car paid-off, nor clutter up the lines of the tip-up RV6A
with a lot of antennae that will only slow me down and get me cranky
when the last transmitter finally goes dark in 2010.
I'm building a simple, cheap RV-day/night VFR. But even if I plan
to get my IFR ticket at some point, by then they'll have a lot more
GPS approaches and re-written regs to support them.
This, from someone just starting out, but planning on an airway
system for the next century... and looking forward to an extra
knot or two.
Mark D Hiatt
OttoPilot_MSN
Aviation Forum Manager,
The Microsoft Network
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Filler Question |
>>I am planning to Alumiprep, Alodine, and prime with Crown Metro epoxy primer
>>(the Boeing stuff) on all exterior surfaces. (Interior is Alumiprep and
>>Zinc Chromate). The tip joints will be filled with an epoxy/microballoon
>>paste. I riveted the fiberglass tips on today.
>
>Danny...
>If you just fill the gap with epoxy/micro I would be worried about cracking. I
>think you either need to fair with a thin layer of F/G cloth & resin with
micro
>over the top, or even simpler, leave the gap showing. If you ensure that
the gap
>is of even width , say 1/32, it does not look unattractive after paint.
>
>When I did mine, I filled. If I had to do it again, I would leave the gap.
>
>Regards, Rob Lee - Painting RV6A
>
Danny, I agree with Rob. I faired mine in on the RV-6 (no cracks after 200
hrs) but I think a well done job with out filler looks better and intend to
do this on the RV-6A I'm building now. We've got to have some way to tell
our superior airplanes from the plastic ones :) Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marian K. Rendall or Scott Sawby" <mkr(at)netw.com> |
| Subject: | Tool list - band saw |
I noticed on the catagory 3 tool list a metal cutting band saw is listed.
If anyone is contemplating the purchase of a band saw for an RV project, a
wood cutting band saw would be a better choice. I have both and use the
wood for the thin aluminum typical of an airplane. It cuts at least a
hundred times faster than the metal cutting. I use a 1/2" , 4 tooth per in.
blade which is a common wood blade. If it is too dull to be of use on wood,
it will work just fine on aluminum, and it gets that way pretty quick
anyway. I don't think a blade ever gets too dull for aluminum. One word of
caution: be sure the aluminum is flat against the table, the saw can get grabby.
Scott Sawby - RV6A fusilage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Counterbalance |
On Mon, 19 Feb 1996, Robert Busick wrote:
> A new subject for debate;
>
>
> Any thoughts?
Perhaps the ailerons are already mass balanced by the opposite aileron since
they are rigidly connected via the control system?
And the rudder isn't mass balanced at all, is it?
I am not suggesting there is anything wrong with the design, just curious
as how and why it works as it does.
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: VOR Antennas |
> Thought about the eye poking problem with the whisker antennas,
> that is one reason for the towel rack type, they also have
> some better specs. (look cooler too, but putting them under the
> HS could lead some people to use them for hand holds)
Then why not make them beefy enough to use as hand holds?
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Filler Question |
>>I am planning to Alumiprep, Alodine, and prime with Crown Metro epoxy primer
>>(the Boeing stuff) on all exterior surfaces. (Interior is Alumiprep and
>>Zinc Chromate). The tip joints will be filled with an epoxy/microballoon
>>paste. I riveted the fiberglass tips on today.
>
>Danny...
>If you just fill the gap with epoxy/micro I would be worried about cracking. I
>think you either need to fair with a thin layer of F/G cloth & resin with micro
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If you do this, don't forget the old surfboard maker's rule ...
taper the edges 1 inch for every oz. of fiberglas cloth weight ....
If you do this on a flat surface, the glass strip will be undetectable.
However, I think I agree with Rob (see below), and won't glass mine in.
... keep glassing ... Gil Alexander .... rule left over from building
a 13m wooden sailplane ... :^)
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
RV6a, #20701
>over the top, or even simpler, leave the gap showing. If you ensure that
>the gap
>is of even width , say 1/32, it does not look unattractive after paint.
>When I did mine, I filled. If I had to do it again, I would leave the gap.
>
>Regards, Rob Lee - Painting RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Gottschalk (286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Filler Question |
I agree with Rob and Bob. I feel the smartest looking job is to leave the
seam. The problem is the vague lip molded into the fiberglass tips. I
doesn't line up well with the skin and varies in depth. I tried to clean
the lip up a little with various methods, but was not satisfied. Although I
have not yet finished the tip installation yet, the technique I intend to
use is to apply fiberglass release agent on the aluminum skin, celeco the
tip on, fill the gap with resin and microballoon. When cured, I'll sand the
filler flush with the skin, remove the tip and kill the sharp edges. This
should give an exact match to the skin, but look like I intended to leave
the seam. I'll let you know how it comes out, but I'm saving the glass for
later.
-Gene RV6a, starting the firewall.
Snip
============================================
>>>I am planning to Alumiprep, Alodine, and prime with Crown Metro epoxy primer
>>>(the Boeing stuff) on all exterior surfaces. (Interior is Alumiprep and
>>>Zinc Chromate). The tip joints will be filled with an epoxy/microballoon
>>>paste. I riveted the fiberglass tips on today.
>>
>>Danny...
>>If you just fill the gap with epoxy/micro I would be worried about
cracking. I
>>think you either need to fair with a thin layer of F/G cloth & resin with
>micro
>>over the top, or even simpler, leave the gap showing. If you ensure that
>the gap
>>is of even width , say 1/32, it does not look unattractive after paint.
>>
>>When I did mine, I filled. If I had to do it again, I would leave the gap.
>>
>>Regards, Rob Lee - Painting RV6A
>>
>Danny, I agree with Rob. I faired mine in on the RV-6 (no cracks after 200
>hrs) but I think a well done job with out filler looks better and intend to
>do this on the RV-6A I'm building now. We've got to have some way to tell
>our superior airplanes from the plastic ones :) Bob Skinner RV-6
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott.Fink(at)Microchip.COM (Scott Fink) |
George,
Does the c150/152 antenna have the "hockeypuck" in the center. Most
whisker types I have seen have it. On the RV's I have looked at with
this type of antenna on them, the puck sticks out of the sides of the
VS, which is IMHO not very attractive. It is important to me to
maintain the GS option, but I would like to see your plans, how could
I get them? You could either mail them directly to me at
scott.fink(at)microchip.com or I could send an SSAE to you.
Scott Fink
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-List: VOR Antennas
Date: 2/20/96 8:03 AM
Scott ,
There are two good ways to put a VOR ant. on a RV6. first you can get a ant.
off a c150 c152 and fit it into the cap of the VS , the mounting blocks can
be modified to fit. with the ant. facing back. The second way is I have plans
for a VOR ant. that fit s into the wing tip. I know of at least 6 RV flyers
with this ant. that love it. The only draw back with it is that it can not
be used for glide slope , where the VS mounted one can. If you would like a
copy of the plans let me know...George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JERRYWALKER(at)delphi.com |
> >
> Yes, this is typical. You have to use a drill to push
>in that much pin
> on the
>flaps.
>
> The mod that Van published some time back is to open up about a 2 inch
> section in the center of the flap hinge and then make the flap hinge
> pin be two pins. You slip one pin in from the center of the flap out
>oward the wing tip and the other from the center in toward the fuselage.
> You can then bend a 90degree bend on each end of the pin and then safety
>wire them together.
>
Dimple countersinking the hinge will severly deform it and cause a
good bit of greif. On my last flap I machine countersunk the flap
spar. I dimpled the skin and left the hinge as pristine as possible.
I am able to slide the complete pin the entire length of the hinge.
Althought there is some restraint.
___
* UniQWK v4.02* The Windows Mail Reader
I would rather walk into a prop than go to Pope.
'[1;35;40m-=> Delphi Internet Jet v3.012 - (C) PBE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stephen Bell <steve(at)discus.lincoln.ac.nz> |
| Subject: | merits of injected engines? & other questions, IO-320,IO-360 |
Hi guys,
Here's a topic for discussion, i'm getting to the point where i'm starting
to
consider the powerplant options for my RV6, I anticipate using an injected
engine and would like to hear some discussion on the relative merits and the
installation(weight?,size?) of injected vs non-injected engines in an RV,
i've read through most of my RVators, (still a fairly small collection :)
browsed the list archives etc....
and have picked up a few useful points but a number of questions remain.
Here are some FAQ style questions to kick off the discussion.
(Sorry about the length)
I'm expecting advantages in efficiency, aerobatics (-ve g), & flying at
higher altitudes. Is this correct? What is your opinion.
What gains in efficiency are there between a std O-320 & an IO-320
What gains in efficiency are there between a std O-360 & an IO-360
(E or B models with parallel valve heads, 180hp)
What gains in efficiency are there between a std O-360 & an IO-360 with angle
valve heads & how does this compare with an IO-360 B or E
Does anyone have lycoming (or other data) for fuel comsumption@rated power
for various engine models. O-320 O-360 IO-320 IO-360(B,E models & others)
What installation problems are known about IO-360, IO-320 engines?
(fitting within cowls, clashes with std firewall/engine mount)
- i've read about the IO-320??? mentioned in the RVator which
has rear mounted accessories causing a problem.
What is an ellison throttle body injector, how does it work, what are
it's advantages/disadvantages.
What modifications are necessary to a std O- engine to give it inverted
fuel & oil capability.?
What is the lightest way to give an O-320 this capability?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Stephen Bell |
Lincoln University, \--------------------(*)--------------------/
Canterbury,
New Zealand. NIMBUS II - Driver XX
RV 6 - Growing in the garage.
E-Mail: S.Bell(at)ono.lincoln.ac.nz work
steve(at)discus.lincoln.ac.nz play
rv6-builder(at)discus.lincoln.ac.nz auto:kill_by_subject_keyphrase & archive_useful_stuff,
(kill primer, kill Primer, kill PRIMER
!!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Filler Question |
This is the approach that I intend to take, although I plan to use something
like kapton tape in place of the mold release. The tape will protect the Alclad
during the sanding process.
Chris
Dimplin' dimplin' dimplin' Wow! There are a lot of rivets on those wings.
>
> I agree with Rob and Bob. I feel the smartest looking job is to leave the
> seam. The problem is the vague lip molded into the fiberglass tips. I
> doesn't line up well with the skin and varies in depth. I tried to clean
> the lip up a little with various methods, but was not satisfied. Although I
> have not yet finished the tip installation yet, the technique I intend to
> use is to apply fiberglass release agent on the aluminum skin, celeco the
> tip on, fill the gap with resin and microballoon. When cured, I'll sand the
> filler flush with the skin, remove the tip and kill the sharp edges. This
> should give an exact match to the skin, but look like I intended to leave
> the seam. I'll let you know how it comes out, but I'm saving the glass for
> later.
>
> -Gene RV6a, starting the firewall.
>
> Snip
> ============================================
> >>>I am planning to Alumiprep, Alodine, and prime with Crown Metro epoxy primer
> >>>(the Boeing stuff) on all exterior surfaces. (Interior is Alumiprep and
> >>>Zinc Chromate). The tip joints will be filled with an epoxy/microballoon
> >>>paste. I riveted the fiberglass tips on today.
> >>
> >>Danny...
> >>If you just fill the gap with epoxy/micro I would be worried about
> cracking. I
> >>think you either need to fair with a thin layer of F/G cloth & resin with
> >micro
> >>over the top, or even simpler, leave the gap showing. If you ensure that
> >the gap
> >>is of even width , say 1/32, it does not look unattractive after paint.
> >>
> >>When I did mine, I filled. If I had to do it again, I would leave the gap.
> >>
> >>Regards, Rob Lee - Painting RV6A
> >>
> >Danny, I agree with Rob. I faired mine in on the RV-6 (no cracks after 200
> >hrs) but I think a well done job with out filler looks better and intend to
> >do this on the RV-6A I'm building now. We've got to have some way to tell
> >our superior airplanes from the plastic ones :) Bob Skinner RV-6
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | galexander(at)CCGATE.HAC.COM |
*** snip ***
>
>Also, what are the master and starter diodes for? They're in the Van's
>catalog, but I can't figure out what purpose they serve.
These diodes are for suppressing reverse spikes caused by current
switching through the coils of the master and starting relays.
They should be mounted as close to the relay terminals as reasonably
possible, and connected in a reverse direction (important ... :^)
This is with the line, or the marked end, to the positive terminal. If
there is a diode symbol on the part (a triangle with a line across one end),
then it should be connected as shown in the ASCII diagram below. If there is
just one end of the diode marked a different color, that signifies the "line"
end of the diode symbol shown below. If you get the diode in backward, you will
either blow the diode or pop the associated breaker.
The best mounting method is probably to crimp and/or solder the diode
ends to "ring" terminals, and put one ring end under the nut that has the
positive coil connection, and the other ring end under the head of the coil
mounting bolt (the airframe connection). Insulate the diode lead on the posive
side to prevent mishaps ... :^)
Switched Power In _________________________________
| |
_____|_____ |
| | |
| | ---------
| Relay | / \
| Coil | / \ Diode
| | / \
| | -------
|___________| |
| |
| |
|_____________________|
|
___|___
_____ Ground/Airframe
___
... hope this helps ... Gil Alexander
RV6A, #20701 ... interior and canopy stuff
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
*** snip ***
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 50w halogen light |
>I picked up one of the 12v 50w lights that others have talked about. I got
>the "wide" beam one to try out as a taxi light. All the ones I saw don't
>have any type of cover on them. Has anyone made a cover out of plexi or
>similar? It seems like this bulb puts out a lot of heat and is very close to
>where the cover would be.
>
>I don't think it would last long out in the open. Any ideas?
>
>Thanks,
>-- Ed Bundy
Ed: Talk about timing. I've been running an experiment on burn time
between the GE 4509 and a 55 watt H3 halogen. I bought a couple of "Mini
auxiliary lights" from JC Whitney. They are lighter than the 4509's. This
light has a lens that is glued to the reflector, so is sealed. Access is on
the back for bulb replacement. It is lighter than the 4509 and 1" less in
diameter. The 4509 burned out (again) at 7.9 hours. The halogen has 11.9
hours and is fine, so far. I bought a 100 watt H3 bulb at Wally World (Wal
Mart) for $5.00 and put it where the 4509 was. I taxied in last night on
the 55 watt halogen and felt that it was somewhat marginal, so will probably
settle on the 100 or 130 watt H3 ($6.00 and $ 7.00 respectively from JC
Whitney.) I'll let you know how long the 55 watt (and later, the 100 watt)
bulbs last. It'll be interesting to see if the light housing can stand
100-130 watts. Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
>I'm just starting to wire all the goodies into my 6A. Does anyone have input
>that might save me a headache or two? Also, is the 35amp alternator from
>Van's sufficient, and reliable? I'm not putting a whole lot of power-hungry
>avionics in. Am I correct in assuming that a 35a breaker is correct for this
>application?
>
>Also, what are the master and starter diodes for? They're in the Van's
>catalog, but I can't figure out what purpose they serve. Any input on the
>ISSPRO auto-type gauges? I notice the oil pressure gauge only goes to
>100psi. Is this enough? The oil temp gauge only goes down to 140deg, is
>that sufficient?
>
>Sorry if this sounds stupid, but my learning curve has just gone vertical
>here...
>
>-- Ed Bundy
Ed: As expensive as engines are, I would not skimp on the quality of the
oil temp and oil pressure gauges. I used Rochester electric instruments
from ACS. They're heavy, though. Mitchell makes some small, electric
gauges that look good, but I don't know how reliable they are. ACS handles
these, as well. I think there is a safety advantage to not running an oil
and fuel pressure lines into the cockpit. I also used an elctric primer for
the same reason.
One of the back issues ov the RVator explains the diodes, I can't
remember for sure what function they served.
I would highly recommend that you subscribe to the AeroElectric
Connection put out by Bob Nuckolls. I wish I would have had a copy before I
wired my 6. One of the neatest ideas that he has is to use automotive blade
type fuses instead of the "normal" aircraft breakers. I saw a RV at Van's
homecoming that had used this method, pretty slick. Bob sells the
appropriate fuse blocks, 10 and 20 slots, if I remember correctly. I
figured up my panel costs and I could have saved $450.00 had I used this
idea. This configuration is considerably lighter as well. I intend to do
this on the 6-A I'm building now and will tuck the unit behind the
instrument panel. Using this method should open up some panel space
although I'll miss the "busy look" of all the breakers. For $450.00, no
problem, I can get over it. Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: rv-accident-summary |
>I am trying to get infos about the NTSB-accident-summaries. Does
>someone know how it is possible to get these summaries, or even
>better can someone mail the RV-related summaries to me?
You can get them from the EAA. 414-426-4800. I got the ones pertaining to
RV6's from them.
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LairdOwens(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Filler Question |
Danny,
Let me throw in my 2 cents. IMO it looks better to have a 1/32 gap between
the fairing and the skin. Nothing looks worse (well, ok maybe a few things)
than cracks where the fiberglass joins up.
I used a thin crafts saw (zona brand) to make the gap after filling. Make
sure its staight and even, mine looks great after priming.
Regards
Laird (Tails done, Wing kit arrived yesterday, gotta go)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Filler Question |
>>I am planning to Alumiprep, Alodine, and prime with Crown Metro epoxy primer
>>(the Boeing stuff) on all exterior surfaces. (Interior is Alumiprep and
>>Zinc Chromate). The tip joints will be filled with an epoxy/microballoon
>>paste. I riveted the fiberglass tips on today.
>
>Danny...
>If you just fill the gap with epoxy/micro I would be worried about cracking. I
>think you either need to fair with a thin layer of F/G cloth & resin with
micro
>over the top, or even simpler, leave the gap showing. If you ensure that
the gap
>is of even width , say 1/32, it does not look unattractive after paint.
>
>When I did mine, I filled. If I had to do it again, I would leave the gap.
>
>Regards, Rob Lee - Painting RV6A
>
I have had a look at a lot of rv s and I concur that filling with micro and
then painting is a bad idea. The micro slurry doesn't stick well to the
aluminium and when things flex a bit you get unattractive cracks in the
paint. The nicest looking jobs have used micro to build up the fibreglass
until the seam is very uniform but not tried to make a "seamless gap".
So just drill out all them pops......... or not as the mood takes you.
Leo
skinning the fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Solana <102131.2407(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Ddownloading RV-archive digest |
I've tried to download the RV-archive.digest file from the Internet FTP site
"roxy.llnl.gov", but I get error messages saying that the user "anonymous" is
not recognized. Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong? Or is there another
way to get this file for use with the search engine?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Filler Question |
Danny, my experience (very limited) is that the filler adheres to the metal
better than it does to the primer. Or maybe it causes the primer to unstick
from the metal. So, I would fill first. John D RV6 completed.
>I'm (still) in the process of finishing up the empennage on my -6, and I
>don't know when to fill all the little gaps between the aluminum and
fiberglass.
>
>I am planning to Alumiprep, Alodine, and prime with Crown Metro epoxy primer
>(the Boeing stuff) on all exterior surfaces. (Interior is Alumiprep and
>Zinc Chromate). The tip joints will be filled with an epoxy/microballoon
>paste. I riveted the fiberglass tips on today.
>
>Can anybody offer some insight on whether to prime first then fill the
>cracks, or fill and sand, then prime?
>
>I'm really anxious to finish the empennage and get on to the wings. Those
>beautiful Phlogiston spars keep calling for me to get started!
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Danny Kight kightdm(at)carol.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Ed, first off, the best advice I got was from Tony Bengelis, To remember
that each wire has only two ends to it. That made the complex problem come
down to earth that my limited metality could cope with. The 35 amp alt
should do fine. I have a 75, only beause that is what I got the deal on.
My alt guage has never gone beyond about 10 amps except once when I had
triubles getting it stared at 25 degrees. Then it was about 20 for maybe 2
or 3 minutes. I don't savvy the diode stuff. I have the ISSPRO and have had
no trouble with them. The 100 on oil pressure is ok unless you have
problems that are bad d d d stuff. The )320 cals for oil press of about 75
at normal. The temp on mine runs from about 140 (or below since that is
lowest reading) to about 180 in summer. My guage is 140, space, 180 then
some marks higher.
I ran into a very ugly sight trying to tie my ground wires into studds.
Radio Shack has a nice little terminal bar that really makes a nice, easy,
clean installation. I used it for all of my instr. lights. Ran the power
through a dimmer, then to the bar, then to each light. Looks clean and is
neat. About 3 or 4 years ago, Sport Aviation had a dimmer that you could
make for about 25.00. I did it (so anyone should be able to). Works great.
They also had one about a comm ant. using Radio Shack parts. Cost about
3.00. I did that, put it in my right tip, and comm over 100 mile all the
time. No blanking that I've ever noticed.
Keep that learning curve going, That's what all of this is about. Don't let
the spaggetti throw you, remember, each one has only two ends. John D RV6
completed.
>I'm just starting to wire all the goodies into my 6A. Does anyone have input
>that might save me a headache or two? Also, is the 35amp alternator from
>Van's sufficient, and reliable? I'm not putting a whole lot of power-hungry
>avionics in. Am I correct in assuming that a 35a breaker is correct for this
>application?
>
>Also, what are the master and starter diodes for? They're in the Van's
>catalog, but I can't figure out what purpose they serve. Any input on the
>ISSPRO auto-type gauges? I notice the oil pressure gauge only goes to
>100psi. Is this enough? The oil temp gauge only goes down to 140deg, is
>that sufficient?
>
>Sorry if this sounds stupid, but my learning curve has just gone vertical
>here...
>
>-- Ed Bundy
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer) |
| Subject: | Re: 50w halogen light |
Ed, I'm going to use the 12V, 50-60 watt halogen lights also. They do come
in a 60 watt variety with a plastic cover over the lense. We use them a
lot in the coal mines of S. Illinois and they are very vibration resistant,
durable and economical. I don't know what the service life is but it's a
long time under continuous use. I plan on two in each wing tip behind some
form of plexi wingtip covers similar to the ones Vans sells for installing
nav lights. I don't think heating is a problem but I'm going to do some
burn tests in a closed box before I go cutting the front leading edge out
of my wing tips.
Chet Razer
crazer(at)midwest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RVator Subscription? |
At 03:49 AM 2/20/96 UT, you wrote:
>My fist and last RVator was the "Dec 95" issue with the Mazda-powered
>RV-4 on the cover.
>Has there been one, since then? When does it normally come out?
>I got a subscription with the plans and info kit and so on, but so far,
>only that single issue.
>
>Mark D Hiatt
>OttoPilot_MSN
>Aviation Forum Manager,
>The Microsoft Network
Mark, it comes out 6 times per year. I usually get mine the month after the
date of the issue. Dec is the end of the subsciption year, and you may need
to check with them that your sub. is into 1996. How ever, give it some time
yet, the Feb issue hasn't arrived here yet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer) |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass on tail |
I pop riveted my f-glass emp tips on after finishing the tail kit. Just as
the plans called for. Don't plan for any antennas or strobes in tail. The
CS4-4 rivets are easy to drill out if plans change. Found that in my case
the potential for damage or misplacement to the tips was greater if they
were left stored rather than on the piece. All my finished pieces have
been wrapped in plastic and hung in the corner of my garage from the
ceiling. Finished left wing is also bolted to the ceiling where no one
except a 7 foot tall person can get to them.
Chet Razer
crazer(at)midwest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Filler Question |
My 2 cents worth. I agree that as of now if I had to do it over I would not
have filled the gap. I did, and each one of mine have developed cracks in
the paint. How ever, there is a magic solution. After I had filled mine, I
found some fiberglass mat, its the thickness of thin paper, you can actually
see through it. It is a random swirl type of stuff, like the tear proof
envelopes they have at the post office. You can cut it and it does not fray
or unravel. I can't tear it(so I'm a weakling!). I found it about the time
I was doing my canopy and it worked perfect except that it is not good for
compound curves(no grain to put on the bias). Some of the people around
here started using it and really like it. I wish that I could tell you the
trade name or so, but mine came out of the trash at the local Fibergrate
Manufacturing plant. It is in a roll, 3 or 4 inchs wide. If I had had that
when I was doing the tail, I don't think that there would be cracks in them
now. John D RV6 completed.
>>I am planning to Alumiprep, Alodine, and prime with Crown Metro epoxy primer
>>(the Boeing stuff) on all exterior surfaces. (Interior is Alumiprep and
>>Zinc Chromate). The tip joints will be filled with an epoxy/microballoon
>>paste. I riveted the fiberglass tips on today.
>
>Danny...
>If you just fill the gap with epoxy/micro I would be worried about cracking. I
>think you either need to fair with a thin layer of F/G cloth & resin with
micro
>over the top, or even simpler, leave the gap showing. If you ensure that
the gap
>is of even width , say 1/32, it does not look unattractive after paint.
>
>When I did mine, I filled. If I had to do it again, I would leave the gap.
>
>Regards, Rob Lee - Painting RV6A
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Filler Question |
>From my experience, if you fill the gap completely and smooth it out, it will
look great for the first year or so. Then the crack will develop, and it
won't be straight, or regular. If you do fill it in completelly, scribe a
notch or straight line, into the filler, right at the edge of the aluminum.
That way the crack that will form will not come to the surfact, but will
start at the botton of the notch.
Bruce Patton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: Downloading RV-archive digest |
>--------------
>I've tried to download the RV-archive.digest file from the Internet FTP site
>"roxy.llnl.gov", but I get error messages saying that the user "anonymous" is
>not recognized. Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong? Or is there another
>way to get this file for use with the search engine?
>
>--------------
The Archives are now available from:
"ftp.matronics.com" under "/pub/business/matronics"
Matt Dralle
RV-List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE ) |
You wrote:
>
>I have ordered my first kit froms Vans and need to get some of the
>metal working tools. I am interested to know of the experiences
>other builders have had with the packaged deals some companys offer.
>I especially would like to know of any outstanding deals or poor
>deals.
>
>Thanks for any info.
>
>Charles Wilmer, Jr.
>Sheridan, WY
>cwilmer(at)wave.sheridan.wy.us
>
Charles,
Buy all that you can from Avery's and you'll never be sorry. Not always
the cheapest, but their service and advice are unbeatable. I usually
order and request 2nd day air, and by God, they're here on the second
day.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen) |
This is to Ed Bundy. Ed, you asked about landing lights. Here are my
thoughts.
When I was working on my wing landing light my first thought was that I
would never use one of those expensive, 25 hour life aircraft landing
lights. This is an experimental and I can use anything I want! The
first thing I purchased was a pair of fairly small rectangular QH
driving lamps. They had a very thick and heavy piece of glass in front
of them and I removed that. I measured their current and I calculated
that they only required about 35 Watts of power. However, I realized
that that without the glass as a heat sink/dissipator the hot little
bulb would probably melt any plexiglass leading edge. I realized that
whatever light I used, it needed to be sealed, light weight and bright.
My next idea was to use a sealed beam halogen car lamp. I figured I
could used hi-beam for landing and lo-beam for taxiing. The standard
sealed beam rectangular car lamps are huge, however, I was able to find
a very light and small (for a Honda) plastic (Westinghouse) sealed beam
quartz halogen rectangular car lamp. I bought a pair at about $20 each
and took them home to test them. They were about 50 watts.
I live near an airport and one evening as I was driving down the hill
from my house I looked at all the cars coming toward me with their
headlanps and a Cessna in the pattern above and guess what? The real
aircraft landing light was way brighter than the car lamps!
You might say I saw the light. The aircraft lamps are white hot and
the car lamps are more yellow. They have a higher "color temperature".
It happened that at the time I worked with medical lights and
radiometers (light meters) and I had become quite an expert on quartz
halogen lamp technology. The reality is that due to the physics of it,
a 100 Watt airplane lamp is going to be much brighter and have a much
shorter life than a 35 or 50 watt car lamp. End of story.
I ended up using the 100 Watt aircraft ($12 to $20 each) lamp and made
my plexiglass leading edge easily removable for lamp replacement.
Also, I intend to make a flasher ($15 worth of Radio Shack parts) for
my landing light. What a flasher does, aside from making the light
more noticeable for collision avoidance, is to reduce the average
temperature of the lamp which will greatly increase the life
expectancy. Because the lamp is flashing, the filament remains warm
and the therefore the thermal shock of turning it on/off is not a
factor.
That is my 2 cents worth.
PS: To make an acrylic (plexiglass) leading edge is easy. Simply
"drape form" it over a mold in your oven for about 10 minutes at 350
degrees F.
____________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | marcelo(at)marcelo.remote.princeton.edu |
| Subject: | RV List WWW Search |
Just to let those people that either don't have a PC which to
download Mr. Gibbons search engine to, or can't afford the
download time there is an alternative.
http://dunkin.Princeton.EDU/.rvlist/ is a WWW Form that will
allow you to search through the RV List archives. I haven't
spent a great deal of time on it, but if you find it useful I'd
like to hear it. Comments and suggestions are also welcome.
Marcelo -
--
Marcelo Gallardo marcelo(at)marcelo.remote.princeton.edu
Test and Evaluation Specialist ...!princeton!marcelo.remote!marcelo
Princeton University marcelo(at)Princeton.EDU
Advanced Technologies and Applications (609) 258-5661
Make sure your code "does nothing" gracefully.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ayers <102337.2252(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 50w halogen light |
>Ed Bundy said;
>I picked up one of the 12v 50w lights that others have talked about. I got
>the "wide" beam one to try out as a taxi light. All the ones I saw don't
>have any type of cover on them. Has anyone made a cover out of plexi or
>similar? It seems like this bulb puts out a lot of heat and is very close to
>where the cover would be.
I buy 12v 50w halogen lights with an integral glass cover and reflector for ~$14
at Ace Hardware. They are advertised as having a 5000 hr life. They are about
2 inchs in diameter, and are available as a spot or wide beam.
If you still have your Dec. '95 Sport Aviation, You can just make out the two
lights on the front of the cowl. (The glass curve, although slight, just
matches the cowl. (Sometimes you just get lucky.))
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
102337.2252(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Was VOR Antennas-associated Question |
OK - I'll admit I'm dumb when it comes to elektrickle stuff!!! Connect wire "a"
to tab
"b" I can handle but as to why things do what they do ....Beats me!
With the recent chat on VOR antennas, I have to ask a question of our "techies"
on the
list.... Question Background...I went ahead and bought the wingtip Nav "copper
foil"
antenna kit from Vans - I like the price, simplicity, no-drag, and everything I
have
heard tells me that It works great (except for maybe one "dead Zone" directly off
the
tip.)
Anyway, I used a splitter to connect my two "nav" radios (no I'm not rich, I got
a deal
I couldn't refuse) and my glide slope receiver to the foil. Now...I hear that this
may
not work.
Question....Do I really have to fork out for a separate G.S. antenna????? or just
wait
to try it out? or what other options ?
Input will be much appreciated
Best regards,
Rob Lee -( now needing time to slap on the centari..)some primer on - spray booth
built.RV6A 22626 (N517RV)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | Chicago Pilots, Fly an RV6A for 40$/hour wet |
Would you like to fly a brand new RV6A with a 200HP fuel injected engine and
constant speed prop that can cruise at 210 MPH ?
Would you pay $40 per hour wet to do so ?
Do you live in the Chicago area ?
If you answered yes to these three questions, you may be interested in
joining our soon to be created, non-profit, incorporated RV flying club.
Hi, my name is Scott Johnson and I have been flying airplanes like Cessna
172's and Cherokees for 20 years. After 1000 hours in these airplanes,
flying to me was beginning to be like driving a family sedan, not to
exciting. But then I got an opportunity to fly an RV6A, and that excitement
and fun was re-kindled. So I am starting a non-profit, incorporated RV
flying club with the goal of providing low cost flying in a fun, safe, high
performance airplane. Heres a very brief summary of how its going to work
(details will be forthcoming):
- Club will be non-profit and incorporated to limit personal liablity.
- Airplane will be maintained only by licensed A&P mechanics employed by the
club.
- Club will be equity based and cost $6,000 per member, membership is set
constant at 10 members.
- Club member may sell their membership at anytime to another qualified pilot.
- Club airplane will be insured by AVEMCO for the full value of the plane.
- Club will be open to licensed pilots with 100 hours total time or more,
and will require 5 hour checkout.
- Monthly dues for the insurance, tie down, and 24 hour scheduling service
is $50 month per member.
- Plane will be based at Schaumburg or Dupage airport.
- The bylaws and rules required to keep the club rolling smoothly and to
preserve equitable access to the plane by all its members will be refined by
its members before the club is incorporated and memberships taken.
*** Note: the plane has not been purchased yet, we are looking at several
RV6A's. If you know of one for sale, please let me know.
- Since a number of the people interested in this club are also building
RV's of their own (including myself), it is expected that over time
memberships will change hands. This is great because it gives builders a
chance to fly today, and non-builders the chance to fly a high performance
airplane.
Lest anyone think the hourly rates are to good to be true, or an equity size
club of this size is not doable, I will share this with you. I have belonged
to the Vagabond flying club in Chicago for many years. It also is a
non-profit equity club. We have a Cessna 172 for 35 hour wet, a Warrior for
35 hour wet, and a Cherokee 140 for 30 hour wet. This club has been in
existence for over 20 years. It has a membership size of 50 people so their
equity position is about $1,200 per share, and their montly dues are around
$50. It has been a great experience for me and one I intend to model for the
new RV flying club. So if you are seriously interested in becoming part of
the RV flying club, feel free to call me evenings and weekends.
*** If 10 members cannot be found at the above share prices, consideration
will be made to purchasing a lower cost RV with more members. (Example
$40,000 RV diveded by 15 members = $2,666 per share, with hourly rates of
$35, and monthly dues of $30).
Scott Johnson Home: 708-980-3772 RVGASJ(at)MCS.com
________________________________________________________________________________
>All my finished pieces have
>been wrapped in plastic and hung in the corner of my garage from the
>ceiling.
Chet, do you live in Arizona? In the fron on Van's builders manual he states
that you should no wrap any of the pieces in paper or plastic as this is just
asking for corrosion to set it. Leave them out in the open and let them get
dusty.
Gary Zilik RV-6A 22993 (One rear tank baffle to go)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R. Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HS Skin questions |
Okay, got that one done! I followed nearly all the advice here! Left the plastic
on (on the one I had not yet removed it from),
used the spring return on the C-frame tool, and got my wife to run the hammer!
Both skins are done and not a scratch
(except the small one I put in trying to do this myself yesterday)!
Now just need to prime the insides and start the rivet gun.
Mahalo to all who helped get me over the hump on this one!
With much Aloha,
Russ
russ(at)maui.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bennett" <elanora(at)zip.com.au> |
If the switch is breaking the current to an inductive load (something
with coils and iron like a motor or contactor), the current tries to keep flowing
as the switch contacts open. This causes a reverse voltage spike and arcing
which may burn the contacts if the switch rating is marginal. The diode
allows the spike to discharge into the bus before arcing can occur.
If the switches are good quality and properly rated, don't bother
with diodes.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 skinning fuselage
>.......... I don't savvy the diode stuff............
> John D RV6 completed.
> >I'm just starting to wire all the goodies into my 6A. Does anyone have input
> >that might save me a headache or two? Also, is the 35amp alternator from
> >Van's sufficient, and reliable? I'm not putting a whole lot of power-hungry
> >avionics in. Am I correct in assuming that a 35a breaker is correct for this
> >application?
> >
> >Also, what are the master and starter diodes for? They're in the Van's
> >catalog, but I can't figure out what purpose they serve. Any input on the
> >ISSPRO auto-type gauges? I notice the oil pressure gauge only goes to
> >100psi. Is this enough? The oil temp gauge only goes down to 140deg, is
> >that sufficient?
> >
> >Sorry if this sounds stupid, but my learning curve has just gone vertical
> >here...
> >
> >-- Ed Bundy
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | Re[2]: Aileron Counterbalance |
If the aileron should become disconnected from the pushrod, that
balance disappears and very shortly thereafter so does the aileron. A
lateral control system with excessive play in the linkages or
looseness in the cables could be enough to allow flutter if such a
system were used (there are a few).
Van's newer designs incorporate aerodynamic balances that may be mass
balanced as well. I have not heard of rudder flutter on the RV series.
Perhaps the change is related to the taller canopies he is using
lately.
If the rudder needed to be mass balanced, I am sure we all would have
heard by now.
David Fried
DF-6 C-____
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Aileron Counterbalance
Date: 2/20/96 04:25 PM
Perhaps the ailerons are already mass balanced by the opposite aileron since
they are rigidly connected via the control system?
And the rudder isn't mass balanced at all, is it?
I am not suggesting there is anything wrong with the design, just curious
as how and why it works as it does.
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Chicago Pilots, Fly an RV6A for 40$/hour wet |
>Would you like to fly a brand new RV6A with a 200HP fuel injected engine and
>constant speed prop that can cruise at 210 MPH ?
>
SNIP
>
> Scott Johnson Home: 708-980-3772 RVGASJ(at)MCS.com
>
Scott:
Check the regs. Don't think you can operate an aircraft with an
experimental ticket in a "flying club". There are specifics about "shared
expenses" etc. etc.
Talk to you friendly FSDO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Injected engines & other questions |
Stephen:
I have a 4 with 0-360 A1A c/s. I considered injected engines when I was building
but opted for the 0-360 to keep things uncomplicated. I have not regretted
the decision. Yes I do aerobatics. No I can't do sustained negative G
stuff. But I hangar with a skybolt, decathlon, and other inverted equiped
birds so when I
feel the need to hang on the straps I do it in something else. (Plus it
reminds me how much I like the RV)
We also have another 4 that is equiped with inverted oil and injection. It
is a converted 0-320 with the airflow performance injection kit. It's first
flight is about 4 weeks away so I have seen the extra agravation of
installation up close.
The benefits of injection, besides inverted capability, are even fuel flow
at all power settings. The downside is they tend to be hard to start when
hot. There are purge valves that you can use that help the problem. You
also will have to invent your own scoop/airbox etc. That can be a pain in
the tail. But it is doable.
Ellison's are basically throttle body injection systems. Van had one and
had lots of problems getting it to start hot.
Angle valve head 360's produce more H.P. through better flow design. They are
big buck engines. Take more cowl work and the 200 horses are pushing on
deminished returns. In other words, there not that much faster than the 180's.
Also, the big engines are beating up the tail control surfaces faster. With 180
hours on mine I have found cracks in the elevator and rudder. I am not alone.
I'm working on a fix. (New control surfaces built differently)
As far as fuel flow, I plan on 9 gph average. Lower at altitude, But not much.
I cruise at 175 Knots average true airspeed at 8000 ft. throttle open 2400 rpm.
As far as rear mounted accesories, No big deal. Make a knock out for the
governor and get on with it. Good luck cramming the inverted oil system in. It's
tight.
Hope this answers some of your questions.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Kutschke <73244.1501(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Metal vs. wood jigs |
I'm getting close to ordering the fuselage kit from Van's and am beginning to
wonder about jig construction. Is the wood jig decribed in the plans sufficient
enough to build a plane that doesn't fly sideways?
I have gotten some info from Stephen Frey on the metal jigs he sells/rents, but
$1000+ seems like an awful lot. Unless of course a metal jig is so much better
than a wood jig. Does anyone have any experience with the Frey metal jig? Or
better yet, does anyone have one they would like to sell?
If using a wood jig, are there any details not in the plans that might save me
any headaches? What is the best type of lumber for construction?
BTW: This is my first visit to the RV-List. My name is Bob Kutschke. I am
currently building an RV-6A (wings almost done). I live in Birmingham, AL, so
if anyone is in the area with an RV project, I'd love a chance to take a peek.
Bob Kutschke
73244.1501(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Caldwell <74504.1365(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | RV6 Instrument Panels |
Has anyone used removable sub-panels? If so, did you make your own or
purchase? Any problems to install? With a sliding canopy, this option would
seem to provide better access to instruments? Do you agree? Appreciate any help
or info.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Re: rudder balance |
I think the RV-8 now has a balanced rudder. I think in the RVator
article on the 8 Van said he did it due to the higher speeds expected
from the -8 and its higher power.
The -4's and 6's rudders are balanced by the blob sitting behind the
stick with their feet on the rudders.
Herman
>
> Perhaps the ailerons are already mass balanced by the opposite aileron since
> they are rigidly connected via the control system?
>
> And the rudder isn't mass balanced at all, is it?
>
> I am not suggesting there is anything wrong with the design, just curious
> as how and why it works as it does.
>
> Curt Reimer
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 50w halogen light |
>Ed, I'm going to use the 12V, 50-60 watt halogen lights also. They do come
>in a 60 watt variety with a plastic cover over the lense. We use them a
>lot in the coal mines of S. Illinois and they are very vibration resistant,
>durable and economical. I don't know what the service life is but it's a
>long time under continuous use. I plan on two in each wing tip behind some
>form of plexi wingtip covers similar to the ones Vans sells for installing
>nav lights. I don't think heating is a problem but I'm going to do some
>burn tests in a closed box before I go cutting the front leading edge out
>of my wing tips.
>
>Chet Razer
>crazer(at)midwest.net
Chet: I went the wing tip landing light route. Went the poor man's route.
I bought the lenses only from a RV-4 builder in Bakersfield and made the
rest. They don't look quite as good as the kits (RMD ?) but they were
cheap. My next set will go into the leading edge because: I think I can
make a lighter installation, if I break a lens I can fabricate one myself
easily and cheaply and I think the bulb would stay considerably cooler since
it wouldn't be confined in the tip but suspended in the wide open spaces of
the wing. I'm also considering putting my tips on with (ugh) pop rivets as
I think this would result in a cost and weight savings. I sure like the
looks of the stainless screws attaching the tips on my 6, though. The
nutplate and screw weight sure add up, though. Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Hinge Pins |
>One last note, when the pin is installed in either hinge half it slid in
>with NO resistance, when the halves are mated and pinned is when the
>binding occurres.
>
>
It's a very good idea to have the mating hinge half and pin installed before
you do any drilling or riveting. This helps keep things straight.
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rich Klee <Rich_Klee(at)ccm.fm.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing lights |
On 2/20 somebody wrote:
You might say I saw the light. The aircraft lamps are white hot and
the car lamps are more yellow. They have a higher "color
temperature". It happened that at the time I worked with medical
lights and radiometers (light meters) and I had become quite an
expert on quartz halogen lamp technology. The reality is that due
to the physics of it, a 100 Watt airplane lamp is going to be much
brighter and have a much shorter life than a 35 or 50 watt car
lamp. End of story.
I ended up using the 100 Watt aircraft ($12 to $20 each) lamp and
made my plexiglass leading edge easily removable for lamp
replacement.
Also, I intend to make a flasher ($15 worth of Radio Shack parts)
for my landing light. What a flasher does, aside from making the
light more noticeable for collision avoidance, is to reduce the
average temperature of the lamp which will greatly increase the life
expectancy. Because the lamp is flashing, the filament remains warm
and the therefore the thermal shock of turning it on/off is not a
factor.
Well, the $15 worth of Radio Shack parts is what got me going 2 years
ago on my flasher. I am sure my fuselage would be on gear by now (and
not in the "looks like a boat to me, bubba" stage, if I didn't have that
"brilliant" thought.
Anyway, if you are interested in my flasher send E-mail to the below
address. And I incorporated a burn-out bulb detect circuit LED in my
flasher.
rich - skinning 6a fuse.
=======================================================================
Rich Klee 4564 Chicago Ave.
rich_klee(at)ccm.fm.intel.com Fair Oaks, CA 95628
(916) 863-1927 (will accept faxes)
=======================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curtis L Smith <Curtis_L_Smith(at)ccm.ch.intel.com> |
Text item:
>One last note, when the pin is installed in either hinge half it slid in
>with NO resistance, when the halves are mated and pinned is when the
>binding occurres.
>
>
It's a very good idea to have the mating hinge half and pin installed before
you do any drilling or riveting. This helps keep things straight.
-- Ed Bundy
Text item: External Message Header
Please remove Curtis L Smith from your RV distribution lists.
Thank you,
Curtis
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Subject: Re: RV-List: Flap Hinge Pins
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 11:48:02 -0500
From: aol.com!EBundy2620(at)matronics.com
0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer) |
>From: aol.com!Zilik(at)matronics.com
>Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 02:23:09 -0500
>Apparently-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Precedence: junk
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>>All my finished pieces have
>>been wrapped in plastic and hung in the corner of my garage from the
>>ceiling.
>
>Chet, do you live in Arizona? In the fron on Van's builders manual he states
>that you should no wrap any of the pieces in paper or plastic as this is just
>asking for corrosion to set it. Leave them out in the open and let them get
>dusty.
>
>Gary Zilik RV-6A 22993 (One rear tank baffle to go)
Gary, thanks for the reality check, took all pieces out of plastic and
rehung them.
Chet Razer
crazer(at)midwest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer) |
Charles, I've bought all of my tools from cleavland Aircraft Tools,
E-mail: CAT3Tools(at)aol.com or from Avery, Never had a bit of problems with
any. The best tool I bought was the videos made by the Orndorffs.
Chet Razer
crazer(at)midwest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Metal vs. wood jigs |
Here's some "real world" data on fuselage jigs:
I borrowed a jig that a local builder made out of standard and better
lumber. The 2x6s started out twisted but the crosspieces were shimmed
to make them level. The jig had been sitting out under his carport for
6 months before I got it, and had warped even more. I re-leveled the
legs and glued the jig to the floor, then unscrewed and re-shimmed all
of the upright crosspieces and also relocated some that weren't quite
in the right place. I also had to plane the tops of some of the 2x4s
flat. Once I put the longerons on and could get a really straight
sight and level on them I re-shimmed a few spots just a bit.
The Frey jig will save you a lot of time fussing and leveling things,
but the moral of the story is you can make anything work. My jig had
some serious problems but still I made it work and I'm 100% confident
that everything is in the right place and straight and level. Even if I
had the straightest jig in the world I still wouldn't trust it
completely and would check to make sure I don't have to shim or
relocate anything.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen) |
Hi Scott,
While I am building my RV-4 which is taking a lot longer than expected,
I have been a member of the Storey Flying Club. The "Storey Special"
is a single place, open cockpit experimental airplane built in 1954.
The Storey Flying Club has been in existance since about 1958, almost
40 years. The way the club works is that we have a non-profit
corporation and each member is part owner and we all share hangar and
maintenance expenses. The point is; it must be legal.
Peter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Hinge Pins |
> It's a very good idea to have the mating hinge half and pin
> installed before you do any drilling or riveting. This helps keep
> things straight.
Allow me to append that if you really want to try to keep the hinge straight
while you install it, keep both halves connected, and open it 90 degrees.
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Questions, electrical |
>I'm just starting to wire all the goodies into my 6A. Does anyone have
input
>that might save me a headache or two? Also, is the 35amp alternator from
>Van's sufficient, and reliable? I'm not putting a whole lot of power-hungry
>avionics in. Am I correct in assuming that a 35a breaker is correct for
this
>application?
The alternator buss feed breaker should be rated at the max alternator
current or less. If you have a 35 Amp alternator, a 35 Amp breaker is OK.
>Also, what are the master and starter diodes for? They're in the Van's
>catalog, but I can't figure out what purpose they serve.
As pointed out in other email on the RVlist, these diodes surpress the
switch contact arc when the starter or main contactor relay is opened. Diode
polarity must be observered: the white band on the diode (cathode) should be
connected to the most positive side.
> Any input on the
>ISSPRO auto-type gauges? I notice the oil pressure gauge only goes to
>100psi. Is this enough? The oil temp gauge only goes down to 140deg, is
>that sufficient?
Anything over 100 psi on the O-320 is in the redline. Normal pressure should
be 75 psi.
If anyone is interested, I have a complete schematic of the electrical
system in my IFR equiped RV-6A available to anyone sending me a self
addressed stamped envelope.
My adddress is:
Fred Stucklen
148 Winkler Rd
E. Windsor, Ct 06088
I would also suggest that you review Tony Bingilis's articles in Sport
Aviation, along with the other sources mentioned in other RVlist email. These
are excellent sources for the knowlege you need to complete a safe electrical
installation.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | William French <wfrench(at)freenet.npiec.on.ca> |
| Subject: | Propeller performance |
Hi, folks. I'm sending this at the request of a fellow RV-6
builder who has not seen the light as far as computers go.
He is interested in any performance evaluations information
regarding fixed-pitched propellers suitable for a 180 HP o-360 Lycoming
for the RV-6.
He has seen favorable reports on the 3 blade Catto prop and is
wondering if anybody has come across any unfavorable info.
There are so many others that it would be quite easy to pick an
unsuitable prop. He is particularily interested in long range
economical cruise at the expense of all out climb capability. We would
like to hear from anyone with good or bad experiences regarding their
prop selection and usage.
The aim of this exercise is to reduce the cost and weight of a
constant speed prop and governor if the performance of a fixed pitch
propeller is not that much different in cruise.
Much thanks in advance and maybe with the savings of a fixed
pitch propeller we can then get him into the computer world. :-)
Bill French
wfrench(at)freenet.npiec.on.ca
Decathlon C-GJXT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | csanchez(at)BayNetworks.com (Cheryl Sanchez) |
Here's a new subject. What have you chosen for GPS receivers?
I'm trying to figure out which one to put in my 6A.
Thanks.
Cheryl Sanchez
csanchez(at)world.std.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Re: Metal vs. wood jigs |
>I'm getting close to ordering the fuselage kit from Van's and am beginning to
>wonder about jig construction. Is the wood jig decribed in the plans sufficient
>enough to build a plane that doesn't fly sideways?
>
>I have gotten some info from Stephen Frey on the metal jigs he sells/rents, but
>$1000+ seems like an awful lot. Unless of course a metal jig is so much better
>than a wood jig. Does anyone have any experience with the Frey metal jig? Or
>better yet, does anyone have one they would like to sell?
>
>If using a wood jig, are there any details not in the plans that might save me
>any headaches? What is the best type of lumber for construction?
>
>BTW: This is my first visit to the RV-List. My name is Bob Kutschke. I am
>currently building an RV-6A (wings almost done). I live in Birmingham, AL, so
>if anyone is in the area with an RV project, I'd love a chance to take a peek.
>
>Bob Kutschke
>73244.1501(at)compuserve.com
>
>\
Bob,
I am using a jig which is built of 2x8 glue lam material. Three others have
used the jig, two are flying (straight). The glue lam material is very
straight and stong with no tendency to warp like soild wood. The only
modification I made was to raise it by 8" and I am glad i did. During the
corse of construction you get inside and out A LOT. Having the extra height
is a help.
I have not seen the metal jigs but the builder of the jig I have saw one
recently and commented that they would be nice IF the cost could be spread
around a few builders.
If you can, downlosd the archive file, use BF's increadible search driver
and scan what has been said about jigs. We had a recent conversation recently
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892
2300 Oakmont Way #205 Fax: 541-342-5492
Eugene, Oregon 97401 email: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Injected engines & other questions |
>The benefits of injection, besides inverted capability, are even fuel flow
>at all power settings. The downside is they tend to be hard to start when
>hot. There are purge valves that you can use that help the problem. You
>also will have to invent your own scoop/airbox etc. That can be a pain in
>the tail. But it is doable.
>
>Ellison's are basically throttle body injection systems. Van had one and
>had lots of problems getting it to start hot.
>
>Angle valve head 360's produce more H.P. through better flow design. They are
>big buck engines. Take more cowl work and the 200 horses are pushing on
>deminished returns. In other words, there not that much faster than the 180's.
>
>Also, the big engines are beating up the tail control surfaces faster.
With 180
>hours on mine I have found cracks in the elevator and rudder. I am not alone.
>
>I'm working on a fix. (New control surfaces built differently)
>Regards:
>Rusty Gossard
>N47RG RV-4 Flying
Rusty:
I have some comments to add and a question for you.
Another downside to FI is the initial cost and the cost to overhaul.
Also, if an injector plugs, you could over-lean (read "cook") a cylinder. I
think a 4 probe EGT & CHT gauge would be a good idea for a FI engine.
We put an Ellison on the Glasair we built. I had high hopes for this carb
and the workmanship was first rate. It would change mixture if you looked
at it wrong. We tried a lot of different ideas: re-designed air box, put in
flow dividers, etc. and just couldn't seem to keep it up an running.
Could you fill me in on the cowl mods needed to fit an angle valve 0360 in
the RV-6? A friend (not on the net) is building a RV-6 and he bought a
complete IO-360, 200 hp for $ 5,000.00. Low time but a bent crank. I told
him I'd try to find something out about this installation and/or put him in
contact with someone who has done the installation. What kind of fixes are
you going to incorporate on your new control surfaces?
Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Metal vs. wood jigs |
>I'm getting close to ordering the fuselage kit from Van's and am beginning to
>wonder about jig construction. Is the wood jig decribed in the plans sufficient
>enough to build a plane that doesn't fly sideways?
>
>I have gotten some info from Stephen Frey on the metal jigs he sells/rents, but
>$1000+ seems like an awful lot. Unless of course a metal jig is so much better
>than a wood jig. Does anyone have any experience with the Frey metal jig? Or
>better yet, does anyone have one they would like to sell?
>
>If using a wood jig, are there any details not in the plans that might save me
>any headaches? What is the best type of lumber for construction?
>
>BTW: This is my first visit to the RV-List. My name is Bob Kutschke. I am
>currently building an RV-6A (wings almost done). I live in Birmingham, AL, so
>if anyone is in the area with an RV project, I'd love a chance to take a peek.
>
>Bob Kutschke
>73244.1501(at)compuserve.com
Bob: I'm sure that the $ 1000 jig is very nice, but you don't need a fancy
jig to build a straight airplane. More important than making an absolutely
straight jig is to have one that is rigid and holds it's shape. Glued and
screwed lumber, firmly attached to the floor, works for many builders. I
just saw a neat jig the other day that a Colorado builder made out of
plywood laminates. He made laminated 2x4's and 2x6's by ripping the plywood
to the appropriate diminsions and glueing and screwing them together. I
think after they were glued, he even ran them through a plane. He has
several people that want to buy it, one guy from Arkansas. In other words,
you might be able to recover most of your costs of a wood jig if it is well
made. I would think it might be harder to do this with a $ 1,000 jig.
Welcome to the RV-list. Bob Skinner RV-6 & 6-A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Metal vs. wood jigs |
>I'm getting close to ordering the fuselage kit from Van's and am beginning to
>wonder about jig construction. Is the wood jig decribed in the plans sufficient
>enough to build a plane that doesn't fly sideways?
>
>I have gotten some info from Stephen Frey on the metal jigs he sells/rents, but
>$1000+ seems like an awful lot. Unless of course a metal jig is so much better
>than a wood jig. Does anyone have any experience with the Frey metal jig? Or
>better yet, does anyone have one they would like to sell?
>
>If using a wood jig, are there any details not in the plans that might save me
>any headaches? What is the best type of lumber for construction?
>
>BTW: This is my first visit to the RV-List. My name is Bob Kutschke. I am
>currently building an RV-6A (wings almost done). I live in Birmingham, AL, so
>if anyone is in the area with an RV project, I'd love a chance to take a peek.
>
>Bob Kutschke
>73244.1501(at)compuserve.com
>
Bob,
Wood is fine, you can have my jig for nothing so long as you pay the freight
Leo Davies
Sydney
Australia>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
Reply to: GPS Choices
Cheryl:
(1) How much do you want to spend? They range $200 - $6,000!
(2) IFR STC'd. yes/no
(3) Moving map. yes/no
(4) Coupled to an autopilot. yes/ no
(5) Hand held or panel mount? Retangular or round hole?
(6) Kind of readout? LCD, CCD or CRT (how old are your eyes?)
(7) How important are user defined waypoints? i.e do you fly mostly to FAA
points or to special uncharted places.
(8) Dbase update method? By factory, pc down-load, or chip/card?
The technology is constantly changing and all of the aviation magazines have
in-depth GPS instrument reviews. While the collective wisdom of this list is
incredibly valuable - a little magazine research would revel the incredible
array of options that will have to ultimately boil down to your individual,
personnal choice.
Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
REGARDING Free jig
Thanks for the offer Leo, but I'm alergic to the smell of eucalyptus.
Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
There has been a total of three RV6's built on my fuselage jig.I also have a
RV4 jig that has had seven RV4's built on it and they all came out just find.
Buy your wood yearly to let it dry you a wood jig will do just
fine.....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Mack <donmack(at)interaccess.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Metal vs. wood jigs |
Frey will also sell used jigs that were returned from rental for a few hundred
dollars less. They
are checked and cleaned up, just don't look as nice as the original. I also think
you could sell
the jig without much difficulty.
don mack
rv-6a
finishing second wing, ready to order fuse and jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KUKULSKIM(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Metal vs. wood jigs |
You wrote:
>I have gotten some info from Stephen Frey on the metal jigs he
>sells/rents, but
>$1000+ seems like an awful lot.
$1000 for a JIG? There goes that transponder you wanted to buy. Make your
own jig from wood or steel/aluminum channels or square tubing from your
local metal supply (or a combo of both materials - metal for the long
beams and wood for the cross pieces. Lots of ideas recently on the list
regarding laminated beams or homemade beams from laminating strips of
plywood. Take your choice of any of these that you are comfortable with.
The key is not the jig. It is snapping good centerlines, plumb lines,
leveling ad nauseum, and always rechecking.
In my opinion.
Mike Kukulski (kukulskim(at)aol.com)
RV-4 N96MK (Installing controls in fusleage)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Kutschke <73244.1501(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Metal vs. Wood jig |
> Date: 2/21/96 3:31 PM
> From: Michael Pilla INTERNET:pilla(at)espinc.espinc.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Metal vs. wood jigs
>
> I purchased an aluminum jig from DJB Engineering, Bethlehem, PA. (I have the
> exact info, tel numbers, ..., at home, if you are interested.)
Mike,
I would like to get that number from you if you have it handy. They may be a
more affordable choice for a metal jig.
Did their kit consist of predrilled/prealigned parts, or was it just the basic
aluminum parts that you had to measure cut and drill?
Thanks,
Bob Kutschke
RV6A (wings)
73244.1501(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen) |
| Subject: | Glide slope antenna |
This is for Rob Lee,
A little known fact about glide slope receivers is that they work on
about 330 Mhz which is an entirely different frequency than your
localizer which is approx 110 Mhz. The reason most people are not aware
that a GS receiver uses different frequency is that generally you only
select the LOC frequency and the corresponding glide slope frequency is
"paired" to that. Since wavelength is inversively proportional to
frequency, and, of course, wavelength is directly related to antenna
length, logic would imply that a shorter antenna would be used for GS.
However, I called Pacific Coast Avionics and they told me that most
general aviation airplanes use the SAMEe nav antenna for gs and
vor/loc. I can only assume the antenna must be a compromise for
glideslope. Of course, one does not need a lot of range for loc and gs
since one is close to the airport. Pacific Coast Avionics sell a
"splitter" diplexer which couple two nav AND a gs receiver(s), all to
the same nav antenna. I am sure you know that you should never use any
bnc T connectors since that will be an impedance mismatch and you will
not get maximum signal transfer.
Therefore, the question seems to be: Will the particular nav antenna
from Van's also work for GS? I would guess that it would but you
should probably contact Tom at Van's and verify that they have actually
used and tested the antenna for glideslope. Van's e-mail address is:
76455.1602(at)compuserve.com
Peter. n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com.
_______________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bill garrett <bgarrett(at)fast.net> |
| Subject: | rv-accident-summary |
>From: "Rolf Hankers" <abraham.iff.ing.tu-bs.de!ROLF(at)matronics.com>
>hey,
>I am trying to get infos about the NTSB-accident-summaries. Does
>someone know how it is possible to get these summaries, or even
>better can someone mail the RV-related summaries to me?
>Thank you very much.
>Rolf Hankers
>flying RV-4
>ROLF(at)abraham.iff.ing.tu-bs.de
To anyone who is interested-
You can get rather detailed NSTB accident summaries along with lots of other
information at
http://www.avweb.com
When you first visit the site they ask you to register (e-mail address, etc.
and choose a name and password) but then anytime you visit you can access
all the information there. Additionally, every week they e-mail you a short
digest of the latest news in aviation. No pressure, no hype about anything
after registering from what I've seen.
Bill
/```|`\
/| _ _ _ _ / | \
|| ,* | ````~~.._ _ / | \
|| _ _,*_ _ _|_ _ _ _ _ / ```~~~..._/ | \
_||_.~`````` Bill Garrett <::::::::> \
<_ _| RV-6A Pottstown, PA N153BG | /
|| \ ..~~~~~~~......_ _ _ _ _.|.~~``
|| `~._ '.....................> _ _...~~~~`````
|| `//`````````````\\``````````
\| // \\
_//_ _\\_
( _`: ( _`:
````` `````
Husband and Father
Mathematics Teacher
Airplane Builder - working on the wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
> Here's a new subject. What have you chosen for GPS receivers?
>I'm trying to figure out which one to put in my 6A.
>
> Thanks.
>
>Cheryl Sanchez
>csanchez(at)world.std.com
Cheryl: I'm probably going to use the Bendix/King GPS-Com with the liquid
crystal display. I think the LCD display shows up better under the bubble
canopy than LED or gas discharge and I think this installation would save a
little weight and installation complexity. The light producing displays
that I have in my 6 wash out in bright sunlight. (TKM comm, ARNAV R-50).
Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
Peter,
Is the diode just protecting the switch or does the spike worry other things
connected to the bus?
Leo
>If the switch is breaking the current to an inductive load (something
>with coils and iron like a motor or contactor), the current tries to keep
flowing
>as the switch contacts open. This causes a reverse voltage spike and arcing
>which may burn the contacts if the switch rating is marginal. The diode
> allows the spike to discharge into the bus before arcing can occur.
>If the switches are good quality and properly rated, don't bother
>with diodes.
>Peter Bennett
>Sydney Australia
>RV6 skinning fuselage
>
>>.......... I don't savvy the diode stuff............
>> John D RV6 completed.
>
>> >I'm just starting to wire all the goodies into my 6A. Does anyone have
input
>> >that might save me a headache or two? Also, is the 35amp alternator from
>> >Van's sufficient, and reliable? I'm not putting a whole lot of power-hungry
>> >avionics in. Am I correct in assuming that a 35a breaker is correct for
this
>> >application?
>> >
>> >Also, what are the master and starter diodes for? They're in the Van's
>> >catalog, but I can't figure out what purpose they serve. Any input on the
>> >ISSPRO auto-type gauges? I notice the oil pressure gauge only goes to
>> >100psi. Is this enough? The oil temp gauge only goes down to 140deg, is
>> >that sufficient?
>> >
>> >Sorry if this sounds stupid, but my learning curve has just gone vertical
>> >here...
>> >
>> >-- Ed Bundy
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ayers <102337.2252(at)compuserve.com> |
>Cheryl Sanchez suggested;
> Here's a new subject. What have you chosen for GPS receivers?
>I'm trying to figure out which one to put in my 6A.
I bought a Garmin 95XL handheld to use in my RV-3. I mainly bought it over the
Garmin 90
because it has a bigger moving map display. However, the height of the displays
are about the
same, so the viewing scale is about the same to view the destination. This
turned out to not be the best choice in my case, because I can't find a place to
mount the unit. An extension cable is provided so the antenna can be removed
(BNC connector) from the receiver and stuck (suction cup connector bracket) to
the inside of the canopy. Pretty clever, those people.
BTW, the 95XL came with a mounting bracket and cable to allow the unit to be
tied into the
aircraft electrical system for power. The receiver just clips into the mount,
with positive retainers, with the battery pack installed, or the battery pack
removed.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
102337.2252(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen) |
Hi,
Regarding flyback diodes:
In my opinion, any inductor like a relay coil or solinoid should have a
reverse biased diode across it. When a magnetic field collapses due to
an interruption of current it causes a very large inductive voltage
spike. The formula is V = L di/dt which means that the voltage
generated is directly proportional to the product of the inductance and
the rate of change of the current. When the current goes from some
finite large value to zero, the rate of change can be very high. The
voltage produced can be many hundreds of volts. (It is just like
pulling the plug on your electric heater and getting a spark from the
socket) except it occurs inside the switch. The large negative voltage
spike could certainly potentially damage any electronic equipment which
may happen to be on although most well designed modern avionics can
withstand such a spike without damage. However, the spike also causes
electric noise. It is a "spark gap transmitter". 23 years ago when I
worked on the AWACS prototype, we had a case where a piece of digitally
controlled communication equipment would change state due to a
transmitter relay which did not have a diode across the relay coil.
That was caused by the glitch from the inductive spike when the relay
deenergized. The lack of a 10 cent diode kept a 100 million dollar
airplane grounded for a while. Therefore, my recommendation is to
ALWAYS use a diode across collapsing inductive loads.
Peter Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com RV4 builder.
____________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen) |
Hi again Rob Lee,
After further consideration while roller-skating with my wife (very
boring), I think your best bet would be to make a V shaped foil antenna
just like your nav antenna but only 1/3 as big and use it for your GS
receiver directly. That would probably be cheaper than getting another
splitter and also should work better.
Peter n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com
_________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Instrument Panels |
>Has anyone used removable sub-panels? If so, did you make your own or
>purchase? Any problems to install? With a sliding canopy, this option
would
>seem to provide better access to instruments? Do you agree? Appreciate any
>help
>or info.
>
>
If I ever do it over again, I would definately make the panel removeable,
even in the tilt up canopy version.....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A (Tiltup) N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Taylor <gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Metal vs. wood jigs |
Pretty well all of us who have got to the fuselage stage have used a
wooden jig. The planes seem to be straight, and our wallets still have that
$1000. Well, they don't really, it's been spent on other stuff :-)
Graham Taylor gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au
119 Darley Circle, Bullcreek, WA 6149, AUSTRALIA
Phone (619) 332 4094 Fax (619) 310 6048
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
>the 55 watt halogen and felt that it was somewhat marginal, so will probably
>settle on the 100 or 130 watt H3 ($6.00 and $ 7.00 respectively from JC
>Whitney.) I'll let you know how long the 55 watt (and later, the 100 watt)
>bulbs last. It'll be interesting to see if the light housing can stand
>100-130 watts. Bob Skinner RV-6
>
Thanks, I'd be real interested in finding a suitable light that will last
more than a few flights. Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 50w halogen light |
>I buy 12v 50w halogen lights with an integral glass cover and reflector for
>~$14
>at Ace Hardware. They are advertised as having a 5000 hr life. They are
>about
>2 inchs in diameter, and are available as a spot or wide beam.
>If you still have your Dec. '95 Sport Aviation, You can just make out the
two
>lights on the front of the cowl. (The glass curve, although slight, just
>matches the cowl. (Sometimes you just get lucky.))
How has the longevity been? -- Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
> Here's a new subject. What have you chosen for GPS receivers?
>I'm trying to figure out which one to put in my 6A.
>
>
I put in the IIMorrow FlyBuddy with the full North America Data base that
includes VOR's, NDB's, Intersections as well as all the airport information.
I use it as a navigational backup to the other IFR equipment and find it to
be a real confidence builder to the nav information while flying IFR.
IMO, GPS technology is changing too rapidly to go out and buy a full IFR
certified unit. For VFR, buy the cheapest unit that fills the requirements of
your everday flying.
By the way, I have choosen my radios such that they ALL have LCD displays.
These are backlighted for night time operations as well as daylight. They are
100% visable in direct sunlight.......
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
>After further consideration while roller-skating with my wife (very
>boring), I think your best bet would be to make a V shaped foil antenna
>just like your nav antenna but only 1/3 as big and use it for your GS
>receiver directly. That would probably be cheaper than getting another
>splitter and also should work better.
>
>
Where would you mount it?
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Jigs, Met. vs wood |
Is the wood jig decribed in the plans sufficient
>enough to build a plane that doesn't fly sideways?
>I have gotten some info from Stephen Frey on the metal jigs he sells/rents, but
>$1000+ seems like an awful lot. Unless of course a metal jig is so much better
>than a wood jig. Does anyone have any experience with the Frey metal jig? Or
>better yet, does anyone have one they would like to sell?
>If using a wood jig, are there any details not in the plans that might save me
>any headaches? What is the best type of lumber for construction?
>BTW: This is my first visit to the RV-List. My name is Bob Kutschke. I am
>currently building an RV-6A (wings almost done). I live in Birmingham, AL, so
>if anyone is in the area with an RV project, I'd love a chance to take a peek.
>Bob Kutschke
>73244.1501(at)compuserve.com
Bob, welcome to the group. Vans RVator had an article a few years back (3
or 4) about the unneccessary expense of metal etc jigs. Was of the opinion
that you could use tree limbs if you shimmed them true. It is a case of
money vs desire of perfection and effort to true. I used treated 4x4 and
2x4. If the wx changed appreciably, I checked the trueness. I had a grand
total of $56.00 in the fus. jig. Was going to use it for fence post when
completed, but gave it to someone in the EAA chapter. The plane flies
normal. Or at least, it flies the way I believe it was intended to do. My
flying may not place it in the normal category. I found that some 1/2 inch
plywood cut into triangles from 12 in sqs. and used at corners etc made the
rig very rigid. Used drywall(speedy) screws to assemble. I must admit, I
was trying to build my plane on the cheap. Wasn't interested in outfitting
a machine shop, just build a plane. Don't even have a band saw. Did it
with hack saw or in some cases a hand held jig saw. So laugh at me. I
wanted my money in instruments, engine etc., not lying around in the
workshop. John D RV6 N61764 completed.
________________________________________________________________________________
I was hoping that someone else would bring this up so that I wouldn't have
to show my stupididity.
Is an 'archive search engine' an old motor in an old civilian air patrol
plane that is used for search and rescue? Some how I think not. I have
already read 'Internet for Dummies' and am now looking for a more basic
instruction book, since virtually nothing in it is working on my Netscape.
Anyone have any suggestions for what a beginner could study to help get up
to speed on this stuff?
My attempt at the archives that have been discussed here got me to something
in Ark. that I could click on and get nothing. There was no way to type in
anything, just click on what was there and get more of nothing.
BTW, did the annual check list that George had get posted when the list and
my confuser were down?
John D RV6 N61764 completed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Metal vs. wood jigs |
>I have gotten some info from Stephen Frey on the metal jigs he sells/rents,
>but
>$1000+ seems like an awful lot. Unless of course a metal jig is so much
>better
>than a wood jig. Does anyone have any experience with the Frey metal jig? Or
>better yet, does anyone have one they would like to sell?
>
>If using a wood jig, are there any details not in the plans that might save
>me
>any headaches? What is the best type of lumber for construction?
I don't have any experience with metal jigs. These airplanes were designed
to be built in simple (read: cheap) wooden jigs. Anyone with the skills to
build an RV posess far more than the necessary talent to build the jig.
I know it seems that the fuselage is a BIG undertaking and full of
unforseeable negative surprises (well, that part's true... ) and should
be built to exacting tolerances. There is a wood jig in the area that has
had 3 RV's built on it and it is accurate to approx 3/32" on the supports.
Any measurable innaccuracies on a wood jig can be shimmed up, any
unmeasureable ones don't matter.
When I needed a jig, all the local ones were in use, so I built my own. I
took me a whopping 6hrs, and buying everything new, cost $50. Also, there
are lots of times that you'll want to attach a "quick and dirty" temporary
support for one thing or another. A scrap piece of wood and a couple nails
and you're in business. I wouldn't want to drag out a welder for it...
My advice is to build a wood jig and spend the other $950 on gas.
-- Ed Bundy (wiring panel - thanks to all for your advice!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
> Here's a new subject. What have you chosen for GPS receivers?
>I'm trying to figure out which one to put in my 6A.
I'm really partial to the Magellan Skyblazer XL. It has all the bells and
whistles, and a very nice hi-res moving map. It retails for about $699.
However, I won't need one for about 6 months, and by then the
heads-up-display gps with coupled 3 axis autopilot will probably be available
for $200. So I'll wait... :)
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Metal vs. wood jigs |
>You wrote:
>
>>I have gotten some info from Stephen Frey on the metal jigs he
>>sells/rents, but
>>$1000+ seems like an awful lot.
SNIP...
I used a Frey jig on my 4. I had a wood hand me down that had built 4 other
4's but decided to use the Frey in an attempt to use the best tool available
for the job at hand. Now before everybody gets there water hot, let me say
that there are plenty of fine airplanes built on wood, but; I wanted to do
this as good as possible and I thought that Frey's jig would be the best way
to accomplish my objective keeping my workload down.
I rented the jig. It makes holding the firewall square easier. I liked the
"bird cage" that traps 404 to 407. You can fine adjust the angle on 404 easily.
I could go on and on. It just makes your job easier to do right. Yes It
costs more than lumber, but I would do it again. It also speeds up the
process. I was out of the jig in under 6 weeks.
For those that don't know Frey, he was an engineer for Grumman. Knows jigs
in the production world. I thought he was a lot of help.
Bottom line.... I was out to do the best job I could do and got whatever
tools I needed to accomplish my goal. It's not what you do it on, it's how
well you do it on what you do it on. I would rent the jig again.
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitchell Faatz <mitch(at)netmanage.com> |
PwRCO~s"A~`xv&z.hE;P"7`$"90KI\asWliWt7"xGPLa/:\\o(at)MYS5h.uOMyoh.lSrBB]%_8rJ[9}U
~O/w3:S\<\&p)Nt0s|KA5s|kuD/K.j&?#'*P8W/lP28(Lo[j^##fU9};tipZvOqv]
I'm looking into building an RV-6A, and since I haven't gotten
a ride in one yet I'm concerned about it's IFR and cross
country comfort level. An RV-4 pilot I talked to said the
controls are so "tight" and the wings so stiff, he couldn't see
doing either IFR or cross countries in it. With the stiff
wings every little bit of turbulence is felt and with the tight
controls you are always active on the stick according to him.
How has your experience been? It looks like a hellova plane
otherwise!
Thanks - Mitch
aol.com!WStucklen(at)matronics.com wrote:
> Here's a new subject. What have you chosen for GPS
receivers?
>I'm trying to figure out which one to put in my 6A.
>
>
I put in the IIMorrow FlyBuddy with the full North America
Data base that
includes VOR's, NDB's, Intersections as well as all the airport
information.
I use it as a navigational backup to the other IFR equipment
and find it to
be a real confidence builder to the nav information while
flying IFR.
IMO, GPS technology is changing too rapidly to go out and
buy a full IFR
certified unit. For VFR, buy the cheapest unit that fills the
requirements of
your everday flying.
By the way, I have choosen my radios such that they ALL have
LCD displays.
These are backlighted for night time operations as well as
daylight. They are
100% visable in direct sunlight.......
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
-----------------End of Original Message-----------------
O/ Cut here
-------------------Q\--------------------------------------
Mitchell Faatz Software Engineer mitch(at)netmanage.com
NetManage Inc. Team Lead - Internet (408) 973-7171
Home of Chameleon TCPIP Applications for Windows
MIME Enclosures OK
-----------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question |
On Tue, 20 Feb 1996 av8r(at)hic.net wrote:
> Do I really have to fork out for a separate G.S. antenna?????
Yes, you do. VOR's and Localizers are VHF, The Glideslope signal is UHF.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel Injection vs. Normal Aspiration |
| From: | Jack Abell <abell(at)rand.org> |
I have listened with great interest to anecdotal information about the
vagaries of fuel injection systems. I've looked at literature on the
Ellison and Airflow Performance systems but don't feel I have enough
information to make a sensible choice. As I understand it, fuel injection
provides a modest increase in effective horsepower at mid-range power
settings, but not at max power. It is virtually immune to icing and will
sustain fuel-air flow inverted. I have also heard that fuel injected
engines are more difficult to start and injection systems can be
troublesome and difficult to troubleshoot. My aerobatics will be limited
to positive-G maneuvers. I will fly IFR but not in icing conditions.
Just two days ago I ordered my fuselage and finishing kits, an O-360-A1A,
and c/s prop. I indicated on my order an Ellison installation. I'm
inclined to change it, but I'm really on the fence. I would appreciate
hearing anyone's thoughts about this important choice, any experiences you
have had, or references I might find that would help me shed some
additional light on the issue.
Thanks.
Jack Abell
RV-6A Elevator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Metal vs. wood jigs |
On 21 Feb 1996, Bob Kutschke wrote:
> I'm getting close to ordering the fuselage kit from Van's and am beginning to
> wonder about jig construction. Is the wood jig decribed in the plans sufficient
> enough to build a plane that doesn't fly sideways?
Wood jigs are fine. My wing jig was metal, but only because I got the
steel cheaper than wood. My fuselage jig is wood. (I saw the price of
Steve Frei's jigs and just about fainted dead).
I would suggest using Kiln-dried lumber. You can't find it at places
like Home Depot, but your local REAL lumber yard carries it. The most
important thing is the straighness of the two long 2x6 side members.
When you go to the lumber yard, pick through the 2x6's to find the
straightest ones they have. You'll end up shimming the jig anyway (no
floor is THAT level), but the straighter the lumber, the less you'll have
to shim.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
N601DB
Fuselage in the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
On Wed, 21 Feb 1996, Cheryl Sanchez wrote:
> Here's a new subject. What have you chosen for GPS receivers?
> I'm trying to figure out which one to put in my 6A.
I'll probably put in the King KLX-135A.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
N601DB
fuselage in the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Antique Motors |
A
>BTW, did the annual check list that George had get posted when the list and
>my confuser were down?
>John D RV6 N61764 completed.
John: John O. said that he mailed a copy (snail mail) the other day and
when I get it I'll type it in & send it out to the listers. With any luck,
I'll be able to get my wife to type it and you'll get it a lot quicker.
Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAllen6526(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RE: VOR Antennas or GPS-Only? |
If you intend to fly IFR with GPS only, keep in mind that all of the GPS
approaches thus far are non-precision. To my knowledge, the only precision
approaches currently approved for GPS are for SCAT 1 approaches , which
require additional differential receiving equipment on board the aircraft.
Therefore you will not be able to fly an ILS equivalent with GPS for some
time. When you do, you will need to have an on-board receiver capable of
receiving ground-based differential signal, or satellite based (not GPS)
differential signal.
The upshot is, when weather is down to minimums and the ILS is the only
option at the intended airport, you need to have an ILS receiver. You might
be able to use your GPS in lieu of cross radials or marker beacons, but GPS
is not currently accurate enough to provide vertical guidance like a
glideslope.
Also, when the controller tells you to intercept the 230 radial and track
inbound, whether VFR or IFR, it would be preferable to comply than to have to
tell him "negative VOR".
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com |
| Subject: | Landing lights... |
I was thumbing through an old Sport Aviation last night and noticed that
Dream Catcher(Lancair) had a landing light in the cowl under the right
nostril. It was well recessed and really well done.
This seems like an idea that has potential for an RV. You could put 1
light in the nose, ahead of the CG and not punch holes in your wings.
Why has the wing mounted landing light become the standard?
Separate note:
I used to work for North American Philips as a Product Engineer for Halogen
filaments( about 15years ago ). If I remember correctly, the Halogens were
particularly susceptible to over voltage conditions. The numbers were
something like 1% increase in volts=5% decrease in life. If your voltage
regulator is not working well, you can kiss your halogens good bye very
quickly.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Becki Orndorff <rso(at)css.ncifcrf.gov> |
Mitch,
I'm not IFR certified so I can't speak to that, but I have done a lot of
cross country time in our RV-6A and loved every minute of it. The
turbulence is tolerable and usually by adjusting the speed can be reduced.
If you look through the archives you will find other comments on the IFR
capabilities by experienced pilots. Yes, it is a great plane!
Becki Orndorff
At 10:29 AM 2/22/96, you wrote:
>
>I'm looking into building an RV-6A, and since I haven't gotten
>a ride in one yet I'm concerned about it's IFR and cross
>country comfort level. An RV-4 pilot I talked to said the
>controls are so "tight" and the wings so stiff, he couldn't see
>doing either IFR or cross countries in it. With the stiff
>wings every little bit of turbulence is felt and with the tight
>controls you are always active on the stick according to him.
>How has your experience been? It looks like a hellova plane
>otherwise!
>
>Thanks - Mitch
>
>aol.com!WStucklen(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>> Here's a new subject. What have you chosen for GPS
>receivers?
>>I'm trying to figure out which one to put in my 6A.
>>
>>
>
> I put in the IIMorrow FlyBuddy with the full North America
>Data base that
>includes VOR's, NDB's, Intersections as well as all the airport
>information.
>I use it as a navigational backup to the other IFR equipment
>and find it to
>be a real confidence builder to the nav information while
>flying IFR.
> IMO, GPS technology is changing too rapidly to go out and
>buy a full IFR
>certified unit. For VFR, buy the cheapest unit that fills the
>requirements of
>your everday flying.
> By the way, I have choosen my radios such that they ALL have
>LCD displays.
>These are backlighted for night time operations as well as
>daylight. They are
>100% visable in direct sunlight.......
>
>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
>wstucklen(at)aol.com
>
>
>-----------------End of Original Message-----------------
>
> O/ Cut here
>-------------------Q\--------------------------------------
>Mitchell Faatz Software Engineer mitch(at)netmanage.com
>NetManage Inc. Team Lead - Internet (408) 973-7171
>
>Home of Chameleon TCPIP Applications for Windows
> MIME Enclosures OK
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Becki Orndorff
NCI-FCRDC, Computer & Statistical Services
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aero(at)napanet.net (Richard G. Slavens) |
| Subject: | Re: Metal vs. wood jigs |
Rusty,
What was the rental cost of the jig, approx. size and weight of shipment,
and setup time ??
Thanks, Dick
snip ...
>well you do it on what you do it on. I would rent the jig again.
>
>Rusty Gossard
>N47RG RV-4 Flying
>
>
----------------------------
Richard Slavens (APC) Napa, CA WA6TMF
aero(at)napanet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | vern(at)ldd.net (Vern Lemasters) |
| Subject: | AUTO ENGINES IN 6A |
I AM INSTALLING A FORD 3.8L V6 IN MY 6A AND WOULD APPRECIATE ANY RELATED
INFO FROM OTHER BUILDERS-FLIERS WHO HAVE EXPERIENCE IN THIS AREA. I AM
CURRENTLY GETTING READY TO BUILD THE COOLING SYSTEM AND HAVE A FEW DIFFERENT
IDEAS ON WHICH WAY IS THE BEST WAY TO GO. ANY INPUT WOULD BE APPRECIATED
vern(at)ldd.net
VERN LEMASTERS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing lights... |
> This seems like an idea that has potential for an RV. You could
> put 1 light in the nose, ahead of the CG and not punch holes in your
> wings. Why has the wing mounted landing light become the standard?
Because the strobing effect of the light projected through the propellor can
be annoying. Also, the offset of the light to the side can sometimes help you
spot objects because they have a visible shadow.
Also engine vibration can shorten bulb life.
If you REALLY love to replace bulbs, you can go with a gear mounted light. :-)
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rbusick(at)nmsu.edu (Robert Busick) |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Counterbalance |
Previous comment:
Sometimes the requirement for flutter protection dictates greater than
100% mass balance(100% = balance, 100%+ = overbalance). That pipe IS a
mass balance weight and was sized by the designer to create an
overbalance condition.
I am not aware of any procedure to check the amount of overbalance
(hanging a known weight at the T.E. and checking for balance). It may
change due to finishing or repairs. Perhaps the amount of overbalance
built in is not likely to be effected by typical builder variations.
David Fried
DF-6 C-____
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
>I had a professional test pilot (with parachute) flutter test my first
>RV-4 at 220mph and it did just fine. That's good enough for me.
>Dan Boudro
>RV-4 N9167Z getting close!
Interesting comments. Somehow I don't think flutter is
such a cut and dried issue. After reading the accident findings on the
Steve Whitman crash, I wonder if what we don't know might kill us. For
those who did not read the report, the investigators found that the fabric
that was bonded to the plywood skin just ahead of the aileron delaminated
causing flutter in both ailerons and instantaneous disintegration. I never
would have thought that such a problem would have such disasterous results
One of my homebuilt mentors continually cautions me on the following:
1. At speeds above 180 MPH strange things start to happen that do
not happen below that speed. The original homebuilts were 80 MPH stay in
the pattern airplanes. Now we are flying at 200+ MPH and some of us might
still me using the 80MPH building/ construction/ designing mindset. What
is good enough for 80 MPH is not good enough for 200+ MPH! (I don't
critize Van with this comment, he seems to know what he is doing, it is
just I, with an enquiring mind, that does not understand.)
2. Airplanes and engines are designed to fail. MTBF or mean time
between failure is a design criteria. You can look at the glass half full
or half empty, when a part is designed to last for 20,000 hours or an
airframe is designed to handle 6 Gs with a 150% margin, then it will fail
when the design criteria is exceeded.!!
Although I have no understanding of why my microwave oven works,
I am a competent in using it. The same can be said for building and flying
RVs. We do not have to understand the engineering design aspects of the
airplane to build and fly it. But since the purpose of building an
airplane is for educational purposes, I would like to learn more than just
the mechanical techniques of bonding sheet metal parts together.
For my education I enjoy the technical aspects of why things are
the way they are. I do not ask the questions to embarass or criticize the
airplane or Van's aircraft. Last question for the day:
If an RV Vne is 210 MPH, and numerous RVs have exceeded that speed,
then what does Vne really mean? Is it a design criteria with a 150% margin
like the G loads, or a speed above which the aircraft has not been flight
tested, or just a way for the designer to insure no one passes him on a
trip to Oskosh?
Bob Busick
RV-6
rbusick(at)nmsu.edu>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rbusick(at)nmsu.edu (Robert Busick) |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Skin Dimpling |
How do you dimple the center aileron top skin for the row of rivets
joining the skin to the spar? The C-tool does not reach the center five
rivet holes from either side. No other tool I have will dimple this
section and I don't like the idea of bending the aileron leading edge flat
to use the C-tool.
Thanks for the help
Bob Busick
RV-6
rbusick(at)nmsu.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clem.Guillot(at)laitram.com |
I have tried to get the archives from matronics, but I get
permision denied when I try to change directory to /pub/business/matronics.
Has anyone else had this problem?
Thanks Clem
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: ftp problems |
>--------------
>I have tried to get the archives from matronics, but I get
>permision denied when I try to change directory to /pub/business/matronics.
>Has anyone else had this problem?
>
>Thanks Clem
>
>--------------
The ftp server (ftp.matronics.com) is undergoing a OS upgrade from Sun OS to
Solaris. It appears that they havn't worked all the bugs out of the
update yet...
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Re: Antique Motors |
>I was hoping that someone else would bring this up so that I wouldn't have
>to show my stupididity.
>Is an 'archive search engine' an old motor in an old civilian air patrol
>plane that is used for search and rescue? Some how I think not. I have
>already read 'Internet for Dummies' and am now looking for a more basic
>instruction book, since virtually nothing in it is working on my Netscape.
>Anyone have any suggestions for what a beginner could study to help get up
>to speed on this stuff?
>My attempt at the archives that have been discussed here got me to something
>in Ark. that I could click on and get nothing. There was no way to type in
>anything, just click on what was there and get more of nothing.
>BTW, did the annual check list that George had get posted when the list and
>my confuser were down?
>John D RV6 N61764 completed.
>
>
Matt Dralle has archived all the messages from the RVList for the last 6
years. This archive can be downloaded and then searched using a windows
program written by BF Gibbons. These can be downloaded using Anonymous FTP at
ftp.matronics.com/pub/business/matronics
In Netscape, just type the above line into the goto line
The search engine (but not the archive file) can be downloaded from
ftp.intellinet.com/pub/users/bfgibbons/rvsearch
Matt:
I just tried the above ftp.matronics.com site and it couldn't be found. Is
it just temporarily down? 3:40 pm west coast time 2-22
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892
2300 Oakmont Way #205 Fax: 541-342-5492
Eugene, Oregon 97401 email: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Carb issues on RV's with air filters |
I have about 14 hrs on my RV4 now.
I have a 4 cyl Electronics International EGT/CHT on it.
I noticed that the front two cyl (# 1 and 2) are running higher EGT
than the rear two (#3 and 4).
It is about 75 to 100degrees F hotter on the front.
In absolute numbers the front cyl are 1450 or so at 2300 at 2-3000'
while the rear cyl may be 1375.
This is more pronounced at cruse than at full power climb but also
exists at full power. Part of this is due to the fact that the
throttle valve (butterfly) is partally closed and that deflects the
fuel one way in the intake manifold.
This higher temps on the front Cyl indicates a leaner condition.
Also, you don't have to pull out the mixture too far before the mixture peaks.
I was talking with Bob Brasher of Waco about this.
He said the problem is caused by the air filter box and the location
of the fuel bowl vent in the venturi.
The problem appears to be that the air filter box van designed
recovers a lot of pressure as the air slows down. The high pressure
at high speeds is hitting this vent hole in the bottom of the venture
and it is pressurizing the float bowl. Because the fuel pump only
puts out about 4 PSI, he says that the ram air into this vent is
over pressurizing the float bowl and that the float bowl is not
filling up with fuel to the level it should and this causes the
engine to run lean.
He said one solution is to bolt a small .040 AL tab to the bolt
on the bottom of the carb so that it sticks out and partially obstructs
this vent hole to deflect the high pressure away from it.
Another mod is to plug this vent hole and move the vent hole up in
the venture to where it use to be on the older models.
FYI, if you look back in the back issues of RVator, you will find that
they use to have problems with the carbs that had the hole located
higher up in the venture and recomended the later model with the hole
down at the bottom. Bob says that worked fine when the RV's had
the simple non-filter airbox. He says now with the air filter the
old style works better.
I did some experimentation to see if his theroy was correct.
I flew the plane at cruse speed and looked at the EGT.
I then slowed the plane down by putting it into a climb.
Sure enough, below 120 mph, the EGT started dropping, indicating
the mixture was richer.
He also said in climb is is not as much of a problem due to the
lower climb speeds and the carb in the full power rich mode.
This also appears to be true based on watching the EGT at various
full power climb speeds.
I think Bob's theory also explains why the engine quits so easily
on hammer heads or any minor negative G load. I my C170, I can
do a reasonable hammerhead and the engine does not quit. In the
RV it wants to quit every time. I think there is less fuel in the
float bowl. Both C170 and the RV have the same carb model.
Bob says these carbs were designed
for 120 mph aircraft and the speeds the RV's fly are causing the
carb problems.
I plan to get the details from Bob on what size to make the tab
and install one and see how it works. Will let you know.
Another mod which he also says helps some is to put a screen
over the entire carb inlet. He uses a special SS screen from
Detroit Diesel superchargers. I don't know how this helps exactly
except to disturb the air flow some and maybe it reduces the
ram pressure on the vent hole.
Just thought I would throw this out and see if other have had
seen this problem. It is not a major problem but Bob says it
will make the valve run hotter and cause more guide wear.
Herman
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injection vs. Normal Aspiration |
Jack,
.... get it with the regular carb. In this way, the entire
engine/prop combination will be certified and you will only need 25 hours
in a restricted test area instead of 40 hours. There is no real advantage
to the Ellison (really just a floatless carb), and the true fuel injection
units are very expensive (Bendix) or not certified (Airflow).
I think in the long run, you, your insurance company, your
passengers, and the FAA inspector will all be happier with the certified
combination.
... see you soon ... Gil A.
*** sent privately ***
>I have listened with great interest to anecdotal information about the
>vagaries of fuel injection systems. I've looked at literature on the
>Ellison and Airflow Performance systems but don't feel I have enough
>information to make a sensible choice. As I understand it, fuel injection
>provides a modest increase in effective horsepower at mid-range power
>settings, but not at max power. It is virtually immune to icing and will
>sustain fuel-air flow inverted. I have also heard that fuel injected
>engines are more difficult to start and injection systems can be
>troublesome and difficult to troubleshoot. My aerobatics will be limited
>to positive-G maneuvers. I will fly IFR but not in icing conditions.
>
>Just two days ago I ordered my fuselage and finishing kits, an O-360-A1A,
>and c/s prop. I indicated on my order an Ellison installation. I'm
>inclined to change it, but I'm really on the fence. I would appreciate
>hearing anyone's thoughts about this important choice, any experiences you
>have had, or references I might find that would help me shed some
>additional light on the issue.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Jack Abell
>RV-6A Elevator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Fuel Injection vs. Normal Aspiration (fwd) |
>
> Just two days ago I ordered my fuselage and finishing kits, an O-360-A1A,
> and c/s prop. I indicated on my order an Ellison installation. I'm
> inclined to change it, but I'm really on the fence. I would appreciate
> hearing anyone's thoughts about this important choice, any experiences you
> have had, or references I might find that would help me shed some
> additional light on the issue.
>
Did you order an new A1A engine from Van?
If so, it comes with a new carb. I would just use it. Why spend
money on something else? You know that is why Van sells only the
carb 0320 and O360's as the recommended engines as he knows they
are lower cost and it is not worth the extra $$ for the injected
engine. (The 8 will have the IO360 however, at mucho more $$).
You can do all positive acro with the carb.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
> Congratulations on your flight!
>
> Now, I have a question. I've *heard* that RVs have scary spin
> characteristics. Care to comment?
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Joe
>
Joe, I will just post this to the net as well.
Van had one of the RV's (RV6 I think) spin tested by the late
Bob Herrendeen (?sp) and this was documented in the RVator some time back.
Van later did some tests himself and he said he was glad he had Bob
test it first as the spin rate is fast and he then had the confidence
that it was controllable due to the fact that Bob had done a complete
test on it.
At this point, I have spun both left and right up to about 3.5 turns.
For reference, I have spun my Pitts up to 10 or so turns.
Yes, the RV does spin fast. I think I used up about 1500 ft (start to
level flight recovery) in 3 turns and it took about half a turn or
a little more to recover.
It also appeared to have some osculation in it, where the nose moves
up and down as it goes around. That is not uncommon in a spin esp. in
the first few turns. The nose was very nose down, probably due to the
fwd CG with single pilot in RV4.
I probably need to try a few more and get some
rotation times and decent rates.
I only did this single pilot in a RV4 so I am sure it would spin
with the nose higher with a pilot in the rear.
The important thing is it does recover fine, make sure the power is off,
use full opposite rudder to stop the rotation and then neutralize the
stick (fwd stick in an upright spin).
I hope most of you know that if push the stick forward first you
will accelerate the spin so you keep the stick back till the rotation
stops.
FYI, I was wearing a parachute.
Herman
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis
phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831
MS: 9530 fax: 512-838-1801
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injection vs. Normal Aspiration |
Re:Ellison vs.F.I. If your just going to do pos. maneuvers, I think the carb,
not Ellison, is the most cost effective. Heard the Ellisons are picky about
mixture adjustments. I flew 500 hr in a carb equipped -4, and had no problem
till I switced to a wood prop- had to watch the neg much closer- engine would
stop- no prop turning- much easier. BTW, Herman (Texas Outlaw) is flying that
metal prop last I knew . Could be his hammerheads have improved...
Airflow Injector (not FAA-PMA) setups evidently can't be beat for more
enthusiastic maneuvers, tho.
Check six!
Mark
PS These setups are all normally aspirated, not boosted or supercharged, ;-).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen ) |
I disagree. Do not let them collect dust! If you get a bit moisture
in the dust and the dust have a (even small) amount of acid or other
corrosion agent in it it'll corrode. But also don't wrap in airtight
plastic that can retain moisture. Probably best to wrap in some cloth
that can breathe. And take parts out and clean them regularily (every
3 months or so?).
I've bought an unfinished RV3 that has been stored for a long time. On
the unprotected (up) sides where dust collected, it's badly corroded.
Finn
You wrote:
>
>
>>All my finished pieces have
>>been wrapped in plastic and hung in the corner of my garage from the
>>ceiling.
>
>Chet, do you live in Arizona? In the fron on Van's builders manual he
states
>that you should no wrap any of the pieces in paper or plastic as this
is just
>asking for corrosion to set it. Leave them out in the open and let
them get
>dusty.
>
>Gary Zilik RV-6A 22993 (One rear tank baffle to go)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen ) |
Most of the priming Q&As have centered around corrosion PREVENTION.
As I've mentioned, I bought an old unfinished RV3. What I stupidly
mistook for just dirt was really corrosion! I've been told I need to
sand the material down till all blak spots are gone. I've tried
working with the Duponts 225S cleaner (I can't read the washed out
instructions on bottle). My question is this: will the 225S bind with
and stop corrosion so I don't have to sand down till all black spots
are gone? Or is there some other treatment/primer that will? (Talking
about the aluminum parts here -- for steel I believe rustolium (SP?) or
such binds with the rust and stops it.) I don't want to weaken the
material more than neccesary by sanding it too thin if there is some
way to stop further corrosion in the pits.
Any advice (short of "shrow away the kit and buy a new one") is
welcome. Especially if it'll shorten the corrosion "clean-up" work.
Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Metal vs. wood jigs |
There's a question at the bottom of this page, I promise!
I'm just getting started on my empennage and chose to build a wooden jig.
I spent an hour this afternoon digging through a pallet of 2x6's at
Home Depot this afternoon. I was fortunate enough to find 3 #1 grade
2x6x10's in the pile that were nearly perfect. I bought 3 #2's that
were nice except for flaws on the end.
This was a really nice pallet of white, untreated, kiln dried lumber.
I brought them home and have sisted the two #1's with a #2 each. I
matched them up and nailed them together with 8d nails - staggered,
about 1' apart for the 1st 8 feet.
I then bolted them together with countersunk 3"x 5/16" bolts, washers,
and nuts on center every 18" to make a rigid beam.
These are going to be stood on end to make the uprights. I'll use
framing brackets to attach to the rafters and the concrete floor.
My wife discovered this afternoon that I planned to knock holes in the
garage ceiling. She suggested that I lag bolt the top of the upright
to a rafter rather than going through with the entire thing. I could
use a two L supports and cut the beam flush with the ceiling.
Is this what folks are doing or should I just cut a 3x6" hole in the
ceiling to get a firm fix on the rafter?
Thanks!
Mickey Baker | Sage Research Corporation
mbaker(at)gate.net | Pompano Beach, FL
KC4ZU PP-ASEL-IA Cheetah N9856U | (305)785-2354
"Men should ause for ONE MOMENT and take another LONG LOOK at the
very thing that brings meaning to their meaningless lives."
-B. Breathed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer) |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Skin Dimpling |
Get a pop rivet dimpling die set from Wicks or Avery, I did my entire
aileron skin with one.
I does as good a job as the C-frame tool with $40.00 dies, but not as fast.
Chet Razer
crazer(at)midwest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question |
>
>
>On Tue, 20 Feb 1996 av8r(at)hic.net wrote:
>
>> Do I really have to fork out for a separate G.S. antenna?????
>
>Yes, you do. VOR's and Localizers are VHF, The Glideslope signal is UHF.
>
>Best Regards,
>Dave Barnhart
>rv-6 sn 23744
>
Dave:
I must disagree. There is a splitter that can split the signal in 2 .
I have one whisker antenna feeding a KX155 with Glide slope. VOR and glide
slope work fine. Splitter supplied by my avionics shop. Standard legal
installation.
By the way... did you know you are not suppose to shorten the coax supplied
with the antenna, My avionics shop made a point of telling me it is tuned to
lenght.
They had me wind it up under the floor and secure it.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Spins in RV's |
>> Congratulations on your flight!
>>
>> Now, I have a question. I've *heard* that RVs have scary spin
>> characteristics. Care to comment?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> -Joe
>>
> Joe, I will just post this to the net as well.
> Van had one of the RV's (RV6 I think) spin tested by the late
> Bob Herrendeen (?sp) and this was documented in the RVator some time back.
> Van later did some tests himself and he said he was glad he had Bob
> test it first as the spin rate is fast and he then had the confidence
> that it was controllable due to the fact that Bob had done a complete
> test on it.
>
> At this point, I have spun both left and right up to about 3.5 turns.
> For reference, I have spun my Pitts up to 10 or so turns.
> Yes, the RV does spin fast. I think I used up about 1500 ft (start to
> level flight recovery) in 3 turns and it took about half a turn or
> a little more to recover.
> It also appeared to have some osculation in it, where the nose moves
> up and down as it goes around. That is not uncommon in a spin esp. in
> the first few turns. The nose was very nose down, probably due to the
> fwd CG with single pilot in RV4.
> I probably need to try a few more and get some
> rotation times and decent rates.
>
> I only did this single pilot in a RV4 so I am sure it would spin
> with the nose higher with a pilot in the rear.
>
> The important thing is it does recover fine, make sure the power is off,
> use full opposite rudder to stop the rotation and then neutralize the
> stick (fwd stick in an upright spin).
> I hope most of you know that if push the stick forward first you
> will accelerate the spin so you keep the stick back till the rotation
> stops.
> FYI, I was wearing a parachute.
>
> Herman
>
>Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
>AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis
>phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831
>MS: 9530 fax: 512-838-1801
>mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
>
One of the members of the Blackjack Squadron (Puget Sound RVators) spin
tested his RV-4 both left and right (solo) several times while filming it
with his video camera. It was really fascinating to see the difference
between right and left spins. I haven't watched the video for a couple of
years but I remember that it spun faster one direction than the other.
Also, while it would recover without input one direction, in the other
direction the stick remained in the rear corner and it continued to spin.
The spins seemed to be about 1 1/2 to 2 seconds per revolution.
I have a copy of the tape and if the pilot ok's it I could duplicate it for
those that want to see this. Let me know.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question |
No you don't! Just buy a diplexer and use the VOR anntenna to get GS
signals. Cost is about $55.
Jim Cone
JamesCone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ayers <102337.2252(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re(2): 50w halogen light |
>How has the longevity been? -- Ed Bundy
I always fly with one of the landing lights, or the wingtip strobes, on all the
time. I have 60+ hours
on the engine/cowl/landing light installation, so far. I bought extra lights,
but haven't had to
replace either one yet. I have a three position switch for the landing lights;
spot light, off, flood
light, so I can only turn on one of the landing lights at a time.
I have been checking the engine, and testing different prop blades, so I haven't
tried any night
flying yet with the new engine. I am interested in finding out if the light
mounted in the cowl
below the spinner can reflect light back to the cockpit. (It just occurred to
me, I could just run the
engine on the ground at night and tell that.)
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
102337.2252(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-Check List |
>John: John O. said that he mailed a copy (snail mail) the other day and
>when I get it I'll type it in & send it out to the listers. With any luck,
>I'll be able to get my wife to type it and you'll get it a lot quicker.
>Bob Skinner RV-6
>
Bob
Thanks, I'm looking forward to it. My second annual is due in March and
will feel a lot better by xchecking with someone else ck list to supplement
mine.
Thanks again. John D>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Skin Dimpling |
> How do you dimple the center aileron top skin for the row of rivets
>joining the skin to the spar? The C-tool does not reach the center five
>rivet holes from either side. No other tool I have will dimple this
>section and I don't like the idea of bending the aileron leading edge flat
>to use the C-tool.
>
Bob, If I remember correctly, there was one place that clamping that deep
throat tool from Bob Avery to a table top, with the operating part hanging
about a foot from the edge did the trick. There was one area I made a
backing tool from an extra piece of flat iron, drilled a hole near the
corner, place the female dimpler in it, and hand held the male tool while
hitting it with the hammer. One of these methods may get you where you want
to be. Luck to ya.
John D RV6 #n61764 completed.
________________________________________________________________________________
Mitch
I don't understand controls being tight and wings stiff, but in my opinion,
I wouldn't consider the 6 as a serious cross country IFR bird. As a minimum
you would need a wing leveler. This may be due to my age, but just for
reference, and not ringing my bell, my background is all in military
fighters, I am a graduate of Intrument Pilot Instructors Shool and was an
Inst Instr. and examiner in the AF for 19 years. To me the plane is not
stabil enought to do serious ifr. To go up through and back down is one
thing, even to make a serious min. approach is OK, but at length xc, it is
not conducive the way it is. This is not meant to knock the airplane.
There are some planes that are steady as a rock, and others that drift all
over the sky unless you are with it every second- look at an approach plate
and back up and every thing has gone to hell, regardless how fast your
crosscheck is. Others will have to tell you how the 6 stacks up with other
civ. a/c, but the above is my opinion. I am thinking seriously about
installing a wing leveler for just vfr xcountry.
GPS? I installed a panel mount loran, and think it was a mistake. The hand
helds do everything the panel mounts will, in many cases more. Why pay the
diff. for the panel mount! But now I have this place in my panel, and no
good place to put a hand held. If I had planned it to start with for a hand
held, it would be OK. I am giving serious thought to building from scratch a
new panel and lay it out for a location of a handheld. I ain't gonna hold
that dude all the time!
John D RV6 #N61764 completed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Spins in RV's |
>> Now, I have a question. I've *heard* that RVs have scary spin
>> characteristics. Care to comment?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> -Joe
Joe,
Is there such a thing as a non scary spin?
John D RV6 N61764 completed
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ftp problems |
>I have tried to get the archives from matronics, but I get
>permision denied when I try to change directory to /pub/business/matronics.
>Has anyone else had this problem?
>
>Thanks Clem
>
Clem, don't feel like you are walking alone into the darkness of the neither
world! You betcha I'm having that kind of problems, but in all honesty, I
think it's my stupidity and lack of knowledge in this area.
John D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Landing lights... |
>This seems like an idea that has potential for an RV. You could put 1
>light in the nose, ahead of the CG and not punch holes in your wings.
>Why has the wing mounted landing light become the standard?
Wing mounted lights will last many times longer than cowl mounted ones. My
fathers 1957 182A has been flying for the last fifteen years with the same
landing and taxi lights that were in the plane when he bought it. Cessna
mounted the lights at about the halfway point on the left wing leading edge.
This cuts down on the vibration transmitted through the airframe.
Gary Zilik
RV-6A 22993
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Skin Dimpling |
>How do you dimple the center aileron top skin for the row of rivets
>joining the skin to the spar? The C-tool does not reach the center five
>rivet holes from either side. No other tool I have will dimple this
>section and I don't like the idea of bending the aileron leading edge flat
>to use the C-tool.
Your right, you can' get to them with the dimpling tool from the ends of the
skin. Put the skin perpendicular to the tool and roll the leading egde a
little tighter with your free hand so that it will clear the shaft on the
dimpler. Be carefull not to squeeze to much or you could put a perminant
crease in the leading edge. A friend of wife is a real plus here.
Gary Zilik
RV-6A 22993
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aero(at)napanet.net (Richard Slavens) |
| Subject: | Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question |
Well, not really. Many GA aircraft just use a RF Diplexer or Triplexer or
xxplexer Spiltter which will allow a common VOR antenna to work with 1 or 2
VOR/LOC and 1 or 2 glide slope receivers. It's not a perfect design, but it
works good enough. Downside, I would expect about 1 dB of insertion loss,
plus 3 dB for the same band split. If I remember correctly the glide slope
Freq. is a about 330 Mhz, which means the VOR Ant. becomes a 3/4 wave glide
slope Ant. and the impendance match should be OK. In general, antennas are
not as critical on receive as on transmit.
Safe Flying,
Dick Slavens still waiting for the RV-8...
>
>
>On Tue, 20 Feb 1996 av8r(at)hic.net wrote:
>
>> Do I really have to fork out for a separate G.S. antenna?????
>
>Yes, you do. VOR's and Localizers are VHF, The Glideslope signal is UHF.
>
>Best Regards,
>Dave Barnhart
>rv-6 sn 23744
>
>
----------------------------
Richard Slavens (APC) Napa, CA WA6TMF
aero(at)napanet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Taylor <gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au> |
| Subject: | Stall Warning Device |
The Australian authorities require a stall warning device on my 6A, so I
have rigged up a Cherry microswitch activated by a small hinged stainless
steel vane, which will poke thru a small slot in the leading edge, just
like a Piper Cherokee or Arrow.
Does anyone have any idea where the vane should be in relation to the
chord line, or any other reference point, so it will trip the switch at 5
knots above the stall.
The switch will activate one of the alarm circuits built into the Rocky
Mountain engine monitor.
Graham Taylor
RV-6A - F/Fwd complete, a few small jobs before final plumbing, wiring, etc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rolf Hankers" <ROLF(at)abraham.iff.ing.tu-bs.de> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injection vs. Normal Aspiration |
hey,
everybody says that he has HEARD the Ellison is not good... or so on.
I am flying my -4 with the Ellison TBI since 130 hours without any
problems and without any fiddling with the mixture screw.
The engine (O-320 with 160 hp) is running like a turboprop without
missing any beat since the first flight. I perform aerobatics over
half of the flying time and the engine performs like an injected
engine. The fuel consumption is exactly the same as with the
carburator (according to the manuals) - with moderate leaning. At
lower power settings you can even save more fuel while radical leaning
beyond peak EGT; the engine starts running roughly only with an
extreme lean mixture.
In my opinion the Ellison TBI is the next best thing to an injected
engine - and considering the costs - it is the best solution for the
pilots who want to fly upside down.
But - just to remember - you also need the Christen Inverted oil
system for inverted flights. Otherwise your engine is junk after some
couple of minutes.
Rolf Hankers
RV-4 flying
ROLF(at)abraham.iff.ing.tu-bs.de
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rolf Hankers" <ROLF(at)abraham.iff.ing.tu-bs.de> |
| Subject: | Re: Spins in RV's |
hey,
we have made many spins with my -4, all with the rear seat not
occupied. The spinning to the left is very fast and after 2 turns
rather steady. To the rigth there are oscillations; half turn
spinning and half turn only spiraling - and that is very bad for
competition. We performed up to 8 rounds to the left and 6 to the
right. With the normal anti-spin inputs (idle, ailerons neutral,
rudder-when rotation stopps- elevator) it spins nearly 1 1/2 turns to
the left resp. 1 turn to the right. Especially the spinning to the
right is very uncomfortable because of the changes in rotating speed.
The altitude loss is approx. 500 ft for one revolution, the time is 1
1/2 to 2 seconds. That means the machine is descending with ca. 15000
ft/min. During recovery the elevator forces are quite high, estimated
25 to 30 lbs. The -4 will not enter the spin very easily; but there is
only very little stall warning (buffeting) before the stall.
Stay building, you get one of the finest flying machines ever
invented.
Rolf Hankers
RV-4 flying
ROLF(at)abraham.iff.ing.tu-bs.de
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV Ride comfort factor |
>'m looking into building an RV-6A, and since I haven't gotten
>a ride in one yet I'm concerned about it's IFR and cross
>country comfort level. An RV-4 pilot I talked to said the
>controls are so "tight" and the wings so stiff, he couldn't see
>doing either IFR or cross countries in it. With the stiff
>wings every little bit of turbulence is felt and with the tight
>controls you are always active on the stick according to him.
>How has your experience been? It looks like a hellova plane
>otherwise!
I've traveled to Florida from the New England area four times, out to the
midwest twice, and nurmerous other trips in excess of two hours each. I've
also got over 100 hours IFR logged in actual conditions with in excess of 650
Hrs total time.. I do recommend a wing leveler for those long IFR rides: this
aircraft requires that you be on the gages 100% of the time during turbulent
IFR, leaving no time for ammended clearances without the wing leveler.
The comfort level is about the same as a Cherokee 140, except that there
is less yall in turbulence. I would classify its turbulence comfort factor to
be the same as any other light aircraft, but it has the added feature of
having the ability to climb quickly up into less turbulent air.
Yes, the controls are quite light, but even in turbulence in IFR
conditions, it is still quite manageable once you get used to it. Try it,
You'll like it! And if you're in the New England area, I'll even offer you a
ride!
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ftp problems |
> have tried to get the archives from matronics, but I get
>permision denied when I try to change directory to /pub/business/matronics.
>Has anyone else had this problem?
>
>Thanks Clem
Yes.... I still haven't gotten it......
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Metal vs. wood jigs |
>My wife discovered this afternoon that I planned to knock holes in the
>garage ceiling. She suggested that I lag bolt the top of the upright
>to a rafter rather than going through with the entire thing. I could
>use a two L supports and cut the beam flush with the ceiling.
>Is this what folks are doing or should I just cut a 3x6" hole in the
>ceiling to get a firm fix on the rafter?
>Mickey Baker | Sage Research Corporation
Mickey.... Sounds like you are really doing a number on that jig. Your RV-747 (:^)
should stay true. Re; the hole in the ceiling, I would agree with your wife regarding
this... - (and believe me, at your stage of the project you need to do this agreeing
thing as often as possible!!). Seriously, just lag bolt about 8" of 2x4 to the
ceiling
joist thru the sheetrock, screw the upright to this, and you will have no trouble
-
also, if you want to secure the bottom easily, I found a good glob of epoxy did
just
fine...
Good luck and best regards
Rob Lee painting RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question |
>n Tue, 20 Feb 1996 av8r(at)hic.net wrote:
>
>> Do I really have to fork out for a separate G.S. antenna?????
>
>Yes, you do. VOR's and Localizers are VHF, The Glideslope signal is UHF.
>
>Best Regards,
>Dave Barnhart
>rv-6 sn 23744
>
>
>
>
Not so at all. There are several splitters on the market that utilize the
VOR antenna for the glide slope receiver, and they work! Narco produced the
NAV-122 (VOR, LOC, GLIDE SLOPE and MARKER beacon receivers all in one box).
It requires only ONE VOR ANTENNA!
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Landing lights... |
>I was thumbing through an old Sport Aviation last night and noticed that
>Dream Catcher(Lancair) had a landing light in the cowl under the right
>nostril. It was well recessed and really well done.
>
>This seems like an idea that has potential for an RV. You could put 1
>light in the nose, ahead of the CG and not punch holes in your wings.
>Why has the wing mounted landing light become the standard?
>
>
Have you ever remover the cowl from a Cherokee 180 and forgotten to
detach the landing light wire? Or worst yet, found out you (or the mechanic)
forgot to re-attach it and the light didn't turn on during a night lading?
And how did you like the poor visibility during a night landing with that
small lamp?
Cutting the landing lights into the wings is no big deal, and the
resultant runway illumination with 130 Watt halagen bulbs in the wing is
fantastic. And I haven't changed one in the 650 Hrs of flying (about 25% of
which is at night).
Ever see a big jet comming in to land at twilight? That's what an RV
looks like on final with the landing lights ON. Eat your hearts out Cherokee
& Cessna drivers!
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing lights... |
On Thu, 22 Feb 1996 walsh(at)cpeedy.enet.dec.com wrote:
> Why has the wing mounted landing light become the standard?
Probably because a lot of us remember the BAD experiences we had when
Cessna moved the landing light from the wing to the cowl. The fiberglass
cowls fibrate so much that it really shortens the life of the light.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question |
On Tue, 20 Feb 1996 av8r(at)hic.net wrote:
> Do I really have to fork out for a separate G.S. antenna?????
To which I replied:
>Yes, you do. VOR's and Localizers are VHF, The Glideslope signal is UHF.
To which Rusty responded:
> I must disagree. There is a splitter that can split the signal in 2 .
>
> I have one whisker antenna feeding a KX155 with Glide slope. VOR and glide
> slope work fine. Splitter supplied by my avionics shop. Standard legal
> installation.
>
> By the way... did you know you are not suppose to shorten the coax supplied
> with the antenna, My avionics shop made a point of telling me it is tuned to
> lenght.
> They had me wind it up under the floor and secure it.
I've been working with radios and RF since the days when they had tubes
in them. Pick up any book on antenna design and you will quickly see
that the length of the antenna needs to be tuned to the frequency you
want to receive. Yes, you could use a VOR antenna to receive glideslope
signals. HOWEVER, you would be working with a de-tuned antenna.
Performance will be suboptimal. In a receive-only situation (like the
glideslope receiver) you can get away with this if you are willing to
live with the performance penalty. With a *transmitter*, this is
strictly a no-no.
As to the length of the coax: SOME radios and SOME antennas are sensitive
to the length of the feedline. For example the antenna on my HF ham
transmitter at home does not care how long the feedline is, as long as it
is at least 60 feet in length. Unless the installation instructions
accompanying the radio or the antenna specifically call out requirements
for feedline lengths, you don't have to worry about it. The RG-58 coax
should present a constant 50 ohms impedance no matter what its length.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
N601DB
Ham radio WB7OBG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | meehan(at)coopext.cahe.wsu.edu (Don Meehan) |
| Subject: | Re: Stall Warning Device |
I think this is an important device most of us have been trained with and I
hope someone can come up with one that will work in the 6A. Please keep us
informed as to progress.
>The Australian authorities require a stall warning device on my 6A, so I
>have rigged up a Cherry microswitch activated by a small hinged stainless
>steel vane, which will poke thru a small slot in the leading edge, just
>like a Piper Cherokee or Arrow.
>
>Does anyone have any idea where the vane should be in relation to the
>chord line, or any other reference point, so it will trip the switch at 5
>knots above the stall.
>
>The switch will activate one of the alarm circuits built into the Rocky
>Mountain engine monitor.
>
>
>Graham Taylor
>RV-6A - F/Fwd complete, a few small jobs before final plumbing, wiring, etc.
>
>
>
Don Meehan
WSU Cooperative Extension
Island County
Coupeville, WA 98239-5000
206-679-7327
meehan(at)wsu.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stall Warning Device |
Graham Taylor wrote..
Does anyone have any idea where the vane should be in relation to the
chord line, or any other reference point, so it will trip the switch at 5
knots above the stall.
Hi Graham,
I have installed the same thing on my 6A, not because it's needed, but because
someone
gave me an old one, and I like the added security, and some RV's apparently dont
have
too much of a pre-stall buffet. Like you I didn't know where to carve the hole
in the
L.E. so I went on a mission, and looked at where it was on every piper,
beech,rockwell,and grumman I could find on the ramp. Results.. I have the vane
at
about 3/4"below the "apex" of the L.E curve - and about 6" outboard of the outer
tank
seam. Ive not checked it out yet (but I'm getting closer!) but I think that this
position, in conjunction with the 1/2" or so of adjustment in the mount, should
let me
get the warning (radio shack buzzer for me) to sound where I want it to.
G'day mate
Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | Re: Stall Warning Device |
At some point on the leading edge the flow will divide between the
upper and lower surface. This point(stagnation point) is where the
surface pressure is equal to the freestream dynamic pressure. As angle
of attack changes this point moves around a fair bit (down and back
with increasing angle).
As soon as the stagnation point moves below your vane it will trigger
the stall warning. The trick is to find out where it is at the airfoil
stall angle. The best way is to install it in an adjustable base plate
and try it out. For starters, look at a Piper and duplicate that.
This device is a safety enhancing feature, please post more details
when you have sorted it out.
David Fried
DF-6 C-____
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RV-List: Stall Warning Device
Date: 2/23/96 09:26 AM
The Australian authorities require a stall warning device on my 6A, so I
have rigged up a Cherry microswitch activated by a small hinged stainless
steel vane, which will poke thru a small slot in the leading edge, just
like a Piper Cherokee or Arrow.
Does anyone have any idea where the vane should be in relation to the
chord line, or any other reference point, so it will trip the switch at 5
knots above the stall.
The switch will activate one of the alarm circuits built into the Rocky
Mountain engine monitor.
Graham Taylor
RV-6A - F/Fwd complete, a few small jobs before final plumbing, wiring, etc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott.Fink(at)Microchip.COM (Scott Fink) |
| Subject: | Was VOR Antennas-associated Question |
No you don't, my Cherokee has a three way splitter, two to the VORs,
and one to the GS receiver. This is a VERY typical installation.
Best Regards,
Scott Fink
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-List: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question
Internet_Exchange
Date: 2/22/96 10:51 AM
On Tue, 20 Feb 1996 av8r(at)hic.net wrote:
> Do I really have to fork out for a separate G.S. antenna?????
Yes, you do. VOR's and Localizers are VHF, The Glideslope signal is UHF.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Smith, Hal" <smith1h(at)macsmtpgw.spring-branch.isd.tenet.edu> |
I'm not to this point in my construction yet, but I think I would use the
pop-rivit type dimpleing tool to do the job. You can get them from Avery.
Hal Finishing left elevator
_______________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv-list(at)matronics.com on Fri, Feb 23, 1996 10:18 AM |
| Subject: | Re: ftp problems |
RFC Header:Received: by macsmtpgw.spring-branch.isd.tenet.edu with SMTP;23 Feb
1996 10:03:25 U
From: John Darby <our-town.com!johnd(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: ftp problems
>I have tried to get the archives from matronics, but I get
>permision denied when I try to change directory to /pub/business/matronics.
>Has anyone else had this problem?
>
>Thanks Clem
>
Clem, don't feel like you are walking alone into the darkness of the neither
world! You betcha I'm having that kind of problems, but in all honesty, I
think it's my stupidity and lack of knowledge in this area.
John D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dls(at)neptune.kpt.arl.psu.edu (Dan Shades) |
| Subject: | Phlogiston spars |
Are the phlogiston spars worth the extra $825? Maybe someone could give me
some insight into this. How much time does it actually save? I work where
we have alot of our components annodized before use. This results in the
material becoming harder and more brittle. Does this have any affect on
these spars? I know that the corrosion is almost nil with components that
have been annodized. I have seen 6061 that has been annodized hold up to
daily submersion in seawater for years without any corrosion.
Dan Shades RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Metal vs. wood jigs |
Thanks, Lee. With our recent hurricane history, "under the jig" would
be one of the safest places in the house!
I'm going to do exactly as you suggest.
Mickey
mbaker(at)gate.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Metal vs. wood jigs |
>My wife discovered this afternoon that I planned to knock holes in the
>garage ceiling. She suggested that I lag bolt the top of the upright
>to a rafter rather than going through with the entire thing. I could
>use a two L supports and cut the beam flush with the ceiling.
>
>Is this what folks are doing or should I just cut a 3x6" hole in the
>ceiling to get a firm fix on the rafter?
>
>Thanks!
>Mickey Baker | Sage Research Corporation
Mickey: I'd listen to the wife. She obviously doesn't want you to cut a
hole in the ceiling:) I'd tell her what a great idea she had ie, you value
her input. Make her a "friend" of your project right off the bat and maybe
end up with a lot of support and a good helper to boot. Your "L" supports
should work fine. Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
>I have been checking the engine, and testing different prop blades, so I
haven't
>tried any night
>flying yet with the new engine. I am interested in finding out if the light
>mounted in the cowl
>below the spinner can reflect light back to the cockpit. (It just occurred to
>me, I could just run the
>engine on the ground at night and tell that.)
>
>Jim Ayers
>LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
>102337.2252(at)compuserve.com
Jim: When you have time, could you write about your experiences on testing
various props? Maybe it would make some of us (me) feel better about trying
and trying to find the correct prop. I'm ready to go to plan "B" and give
up on my first prop. I hope not to end up with a wall of unusable props.
On the last re-pitch, I gained 2-3 mph and 30 rpm's, but my take off and
climb are lousy, 650 fpm, at gross weight. The engine is just not reving up
and making power, rpm's loo low. Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE ) |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Skin Dimpling |
You wrote:
>
> How do you dimple the center aileron top skin for the row of
rivets
>joining the skin to the spar? The C-tool does not reach the center
five
>rivet holes from either side. No other tool I have will dimple this
>section and I don't like the idea of bending the aileron leading edge
flat
>to use the C-tool.
>
>Thanks for the help
>
>Bob Busick
>RV-6
>rbusick(at)nmsu.edu
>
>
>
Bob,
Have you tried the pop-rivit dimple dies from Avery's? They use a nail
thru the two dies and a pop rivit tool to form the die. You can grind
them down for hard to reach places.
Ed Cole
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rich Klee <Rich_Klee(at)ccm.fm.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Phlogiston spars |
Dan,
I finished my spars in 40-45 hours, one of the few places on the RV where I
can say I worked for ~$20/hour. It is relatively simple - since all the
holes are drilled. All you do is taper the flange strips (about a day and 2
band saw blades), deburr everything, prime and rivet. There are at least 5
different ways you can rivet the spars (my method is on John Hovan's web
site -w/pictures).
I think, if you trying to speed up your progress (at the expense of the
educational portion of the project) you will get quite a bang for your buck
out the Steve Barnard's Wing Kit (but I think you need the Phlogiston spars
for that).
rich -6a skinning the fuse
=======================================================================
Rich Klee 4564 Chicago Ave.
rich_klee(at)ccm.fm.intel.com Fair Oaks, CA 95628
(916) 863-1927 (will accept faxes)
=======================================================================
Are the phlogiston spars worth the extra $825? Maybe someone could give me
some insight into this. How much time does it actually save? I work where
we have alot of our components annodized before use. This results in the
material becoming harder and more brittle. Does this have any affect on
these spars? I know that the corrosion is almost nil with components that
have been annodized. I have seen 6061 that has been annodized hold up to
daily submersion in seawater for years without any corrosion.
Dan Shades RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dyer(at)edlmail.jsc.nasa.gov (Terry ) |
I may be moving from Houston to Dallas and I am interested in finding a
group of Rv'ers in the North Dallas area. I am interested in a good airport
with hanger space available. Does anyone know a good place in the area. I
have an Rv-6A that is two years old with about 300 hours on it.
Thanks
Terry N294RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Phlogiston spars |
On Fri, 23 Feb 1996, Dan Shades wrote:
> Are the phlogiston spars worth the extra $825?
There is no problem with building the spars yourself. They come
pre-drilled now, so it's simply a matter of priming it, and bolting and
riveting it together (and saving $825)
When I ordered my wing kit, I bought the Phlogiston spar for three reasons:
1. The 'pre-punched wing skin' option required the phlogiston spar. As I
understand it, Phlogiston does the spar drilling for all of the spars.
At that time (about a year ago) when Phlogiston drilled/assembled a spar
for a kit with pre-punched skins, they would to the drilling to tighter
tolerences to guarantee the ribs would line up with the pre-punched holes
in the skins. If Phlogiston is now holding these tighter tolerences on
ALL spars when they drill them, then this reason is no longer valid.
2. If (god forbid), I ever have to sell the airplane, then IMHO the
Phlogiston spar makes the airplane more saleable.
3. It saved me 40 hours of work.
Does the annodizing have any affect on the spar? Yes. Van's (or maybe
it was Phlogiston) did the engineering, and the annodizing reduced the
fatigue life down to something like (only) 80 years.
Would I buy the Phlogiston spar again? yup. in a heartbeat.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
N601DB
Fuselage in the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: RV Ride comfort factor |
> I'm looking into building an RV-6A, and since I haven't gotten
> a ride in one yet I'm concerned about it's IFR and cross
> country comfort level.
I can't speak directly about IFR, but I after traveling from Oregon to
Florida and back I can say the RV-6A is a GREAT cross-country
platform. It isn't as big or roomy as a 172 but still a LOT more
comfortable than a C-152. And the extra speed and climb performance
makes it easy to climb into clear air, over mountains, go around
weather, etc. Just be careful that the co-pilot doesn't drool on you
when he nods off....
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Skin Dimpling |
I used the Avery tool for dimpling my ailerons. I had to bend em
pretty far but they came out fine.
Someone else showed me a method they learned from Art Chard -- tape
3/32" rivets into the holes and use a rivet gun with a 3/32" female
dimple die on it and a back rivet plate to "back-dimple" using the
rivets as a male dimple die. This assumes you have a set for your gun
that will hold dimple dies.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAllen6526(at)aol.com |
I intend to put a Magellan EC-10X in my RV-6A. Of course, I work for
Magellan and manage that product line so it's not much of an endorsement.
My recommendation is that, unless you feel a keen need to put a panel mount
GPS receiver in the airplane, that you opt for a handheld unit. In a bang
for the buck test there just isn't any comparison. The handhelds have more
features, are easier to use, and are whole lot cheaper. This is because
they are based upon the same platforms as the manufacturer's marine products
(There are 20 million boats and about 750,000 airplanes.), then beefed up to
provide the speed and memory necessary to support the database and moving map
functions of an aviation product. The primary problem with handhelds is
finding a convenient place for them. But then, we're homebuilder's aren't
we?
As for which one to buy, I would suggest purchasing from one of the three
main competitors, Garmin, IIMorrow, and Magellan. Accuracy is virtually the
same with all of them. The feature set is very similar. Garmin's claim to
fame is a battery life that's about double the others, and in a very slim
package, though the screen is small and not as easy to read.. Magellan's
Skyblazer has a "large" screen and a pixel density that's twice that of the
other two and therefore is easiest on the eyes and has the best moving map.
IIMorrow's Precedus is a beautiful unit that does everything well and with
everything but the kitchen sink thrown in, with a Cadillac price to match.
One of the problems in this business is that we have good competitors. Pick
a unit you like and you won't be dissapointed.
John Allen
RV-6A
Skinning the fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing lights... |
and the
>resultant runway illumination with 130 Watt halagen bulbs in the wing is
>fantastic. And I haven't changed one in the 650 Hrs of flying (about 25% of
>which is at night).
> Ever see a big jet comming in to land at twilight? That's what an RV
>looks like on final with the landing lights ON. Eat your hearts out Cherokee
>& Cessna drivers!
>
>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
>wstucklen(at)aol.com
Fred: Boy, I'm excited, now. I don't remember you telling us that your
landing light bulbs were lasting that long! I've only been getting 7-8 hrs
on the GE4509's. I'm running a test on the 55 and 100 watt H3 halogens now
to get an idea of bulb life. Do you have your lights in the tips or wings?
Are these the lights you started with?
Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Phlogiston spars |
> Are the phlogiston spars worth the extra $825? Maybe someone could give me
> some insight into this. How much time does it actually save?
Check out the RV-list FAQ -- there's a write-up in there about the costs
vs time issues for the Phlogiston wing spar.
Regarding hardness/brittleness: Van wrote it up once in the RVator -- a
pretty detailed study of the issue but the upshot was the anodyzed
spars probably have about half the "fatigue" life of non-anodyzed
under HARD use, or 80 years instead of 160. But they are also pretty
much impervious to corrosion.
I had my spar parts anodyzed for $100, mainly because I was sick of
priming at that point. But I built them myself. Wasn't hard, was fun.
Is it worth the $825? Mine took me about 55 hours. You do the math.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lars.frolander(at)mailbox.swipnet.se (Lars Frolander) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Fixed? Well, Maybe... |
please tell the jerks I WANT TO UNSUBSCIBE>
>Well, I think I have found the problem with the RV-List but I can't make any
>promises. There were some permissions set wrongg on a number of the system
>files necessary for Majordomo to work correctly. So let's try this one more
>time!
>
>If you have "unsubscribed" in recent past and have found yourself back on the
>List, it is because I had to restore the address file from late January.
>Please just unsubcribe yourself in the normal manner. Thanks!
>
>Matt Dralle
>RV-List Admin.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
REGARDING Landing Lights
Painting the back side of your prop with a good flat black paint will cut-down
the glare from a cowl mounted light.
No one has mentioned it yet but part of the vibration is caused by the prop
air pulse each time it passes in front of the cowl. Lights mounted in the
cowl should be avoided.
Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Williams <terry(at)is.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ftp problems |
It appears that the ftp archive is still down. See Matt's
message below.
tw
Begin forwarded message:
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 16:48:52 -0800 In-Reply-To:
Clem.Guillot(at)laitram.com "RV-List: ftp problems" (Feb 22,
6:19pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91) To:
rv-list(at)netcom.com Subject: Re: RV-List: ftp problems
rv-list(at)matronics.com
>-------------- >I have tried to get the archives from
matronics, but I get >permision denied when I try to change
directory to /pub/business/matronics. >Has anyone else had
this problem? > >Thanks Clem > >--------------
The ftp server (ftp.matronics.com) is undergoing a OS
upgrade from Sun OS to Solaris. It appears that they havn't
worked all the bugs out of the update yet...
Matt Dralle
--
################################
+----------------------+
##### ########
+--------------------------+ | ########
############ | Matt G. Dralle | |
#### #### #### #### #### |
Matronics | | #### #### #### ####
#### + | P.O. Box 347 | | ####
#### #### #### #### | | Livermore, CA
94551 | | #### ##### #### ####
| | 1+ 510-606-1001 Voice | + # # ## ##### ### ##
# # # ### ## | | 1+ 510-606-6281 FAX | ## ##
# # # # # # # ## # # # ## | |
dralle(at)matronics.com | # # # #### # ### # # # ## #
# ## | +--------------------------+ # # # # #
# # ## # # # ### ## +-----------------------+
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
REGARDING Stall Warning
Dave Fried writes:
"As soon as the stagnation point moves below your vane it will trigger the
stall warning"...
Very nice clarification, Dave.
What do you think about tufting this area? How about marking some grid lines
on the LE, tufting that area with yarn and recording with a video camera? OR
is the area in question not line-of-sight for the video camera?
Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Metal vs. wood jigs |
>
> Mickey: I'd listen to the wife. She obviously doesn't want you to cut a
> hole in the ceiling:) I'd tell her what a great idea she had ie, you value
> her input. Make her a "friend" of your project right off the bat and maybe
> end up with a lot of support and a good helper to boot. Your "L" supports
> should work fine. Bob Skinner RV-6
>
You should take Warren Christpher's job!
Excellent suggestion, Bob. That's what we'll do!
Mickey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Carb issues on RV's with air filters |
Previous text deleted***
> I did some experimentation to see if his theroy was correct.
> I flew the plane at cruse speed and looked at the EGT.
> I then slowed the plane down by putting it into a climb.
> Sure enough, below 120 mph, the EGT started dropping, indicating
> the mixture was richer.
> He also said in climb is is not as much of a problem due to the
> lower climb speeds and the carb in the full power rich mode.
> This also appears to be true based on watching the EGT at various
> full power climb speeds.
> I think Bob's theory also explains why the engine quits so easily
> on hammer heads or any minor negative G load. I my C170, I can
> do a reasonable hammerhead and the engine does not quit. In the
> RV it wants to quit every time. I think there is less fuel in the
> float bowl. Both C170 and the RV have the same carb model.
> Bob says these carbs were designed
> for 120 mph aircraft and the speeds the RV's fly are causing the
> carb problems.
>
> I plan to get the details from Bob on what size to make the tab
> and install one and see how it works. Will let you know.
> Another mod which he also says helps some is to put a screen
> over the entire carb inlet. He uses a special SS screen from
> Detroit Diesel superchargers. I don't know how this helps exactly
> except to disturb the air flow some and maybe it reduces the
> ram pressure on the vent hole.
> Herman
Herman: On my 6 with a 150 hp engine, cylinders 1 & 2 run 50-75 degrees
cooler than 3 & 4 at less than full throttle. My EGT's on 1 & 2 (light
bars on a GEM) are considerably lower than 3 & 4 a partial throttle. At
full power, EGT's and CHT's even out. CHT's are at 300 degrees at full
throttle at 7,500'. It appears that partial throttle causes the opposite
effect on our airplanes.
You mention not having to pull the mixture out very far. If this is at
3,000' this makes sense. If this occurs at 7500-8000', it's a different story.
You mention the mixture becoming lean as you went into a climb. You can
have a drop in EGT's if you go too lean, can you not?
As far as the prop stopping on the 4 and not on the 170, do you have
metal props on both airplanes?
I'm not picking on ya, mainly trying to solve my own performance
problems. Bob Brasher is someone to pay attention to and I'm interested in
what you find out in your testing. Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
Fellow Rver's: Is there anyone even remotely close to Nebraska that has a
150 hp RV-6 with a prop that provides good take off, climb and cruise
performance so that I could fly to your airport and switch props for a test
flight. The prop manufacture feels like he has reduced pitch considerably
and that I need to look into the power producing ability of my engine. I've
checked compression, intake system and mag timing and everything seems to
check out OK. Don't know where else to look. It seems that if we switched
props, we could tell fairly easily if it was an engine problem or prop
problem. I'd even bring along some famous Nebraska T-bones. The prop bolts
are 3/8".
Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-Check List (fwd) |
I have a set of checklists that I did using MS Word.
Ill see if I can send the .doc file to J Hovan to put on his www page
or maybe I can get Word to spit out a txt file. Will check this wk end.
Herman
>
>
> >John: John O. said that he mailed a copy (snail mail) the other day and
> >when I get it I'll type it in & send it out to the listers. With any luck,
> >I'll be able to get my wife to type it and you'll get it a lot quicker.
> >Bob Skinner RV-6
> >
> Bob
> Thanks, I'm looking forward to it. My second annual is due in March and
> will feel a lot better by xchecking with someone else ck list to supplement
> mine.
> Thanks again. John D>
>
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bennett" <elanora(at)zip.com.au> |
Leo,
The spike can worry other gear but most modern equipment is adequately
protected. The key here is to to wire inductive loads separately to
the bus keeping the cable separated from other cables. This assumes
the normal circuit sequence of bus, fuse/breaker, switch, inductive
load, airframe ground. The diodes are a fix where all else is not quite right.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 skinning fuselage
> Peter,
> Is the diode just protecting the switch or does the spike worry other things
> connected to the bus?
> Leo
>
> >If the switch is breaking the current to an inductive load (something
> >with coils and iron like a motor or contactor), the current tries to keep
> flowing
> >as the switch contacts open. This causes a reverse voltage spike and arcing
> >which may burn the contacts if the switch rating is marginal. The diode
> > allows the spike to discharge into the bus before arcing can occur.
> >If the switches are good quality and properly rated, don't bother
> >with diodes.
> >Peter Bennett
> >Sydney Australia
> >RV6 skinning fuselage
> >
> >>.......... I don't savvy the diode stuff............
> >> John D RV6 completed.
> >
> >> >I'm just starting to wire all the goodies into my 6A. Does anyone have
> input
> >> >that might save me a headache or two? Also, is the 35amp alternator from
> >> >Van's sufficient, and reliable? I'm not putting a whole lot of power-hungry
> >> >avionics in. Am I correct in assuming that a 35a breaker is correct for
> this
> >> >application?
> >> >
> >> >Also, what are the master and starter diodes for? They're in the Van's
> >> >catalog, but I can't figure out what purpose they serve. Any input on the
> >> >ISSPRO auto-type gauges? I notice the oil pressure gauge only goes to
> >> >100psi. Is this enough? The oil temp gauge only goes down to 140deg, is
> >> >that sufficient?
> >> >
> >> >Sorry if this sounds stupid, but my learning curve has just gone vertical
> >> >here...
> >> >
> >> >-- Ed Bundy
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Skin Dimpling |
<199602232041.MAA01642(at)amelia.edt.com>
| From: | Jack Abell <abell(at)rand.org> |
Randall Henderson cites Art Chard's idea for dimpling the aileron skin
that might be modified as follows: Use the shaft from the Avery
bench-style dimpling and riveting tool with a female dimpling die in it
and a hammer and backplate. You wouldn't even need a rivet set that
accommodates a dimpling die. A rivet gun might be overkill anyway. An
even better idea might be to use a shorter shaft such as the one that comes
with a pneumatic squeezer. That would require less bending of the skin.
Jack Abell
RV-6A Elevator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bennett" <elanora(at)zip.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Phlogiston spars |
> Are the phlogiston spars worth the extra $825? Maybe someone could give me
> some insight into this. How much time does it actually save?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Van's say it saves about 40 hours. That means about 100 hours for me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
> I work where
> we have alot of our components annodized before use. This results in the
> material becoming harder and more brittle. Does this have any affect on
> these spars?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Van discussed this in the RVator probably three years back.
Theoretically the fatigue life is reduced to something like 80 years
if you fly 150 hours of aerobatics a year. A primed spar is likely to
fail from corrosion well before this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
> I know that the corrosion is almost nil with components that
> have been annodized. I have seen 6061 that has been annodized hold up to
> daily submersion in seawater for years without any corrosion.
>
> Dan Shades RV-4
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I have the Phlogiston spar. Even with the greater confidence I
have now than when I started, I'd probably do it again.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 skinning fuselage
------------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Corroded Alu (fwd) |
The 225S is just the phosphoric acid etch. It should help kill any
corrosion. You would also want to apply the 226S (alodine) as well
to help prevent any more corrosion befor you prime it.
On the steel parts, a stronger acid etch can be used, called
Metal Conditioner I think. It is suppose to neutralize the rust.
Similar product is 'Navel Jelly' that you can find at WalMart
or most any paint store.
Some primers are made to work on rusty metal. RustOlium has one
called 'rusty metal primer'. However on aircraft parts, I think
you should get all the rust off first. Using a small sand blaster
would be the easiest, given the small amount of steel parts on a
RV. I have used a small Sears sand blaster to clean up motor mounts,
etc. You can choose different abrasives depending one how deep
the rust is. Use the as mild of an abrasive as you can, such
as glass beads or fine sand.
Herman
>
> Most of the priming Q&As have centered around corrosion PREVENTION.
>
> As I've mentioned, I bought an old unfinished RV3. What I stupidly
> mistook for just dirt was really corrosion! I've been told I need to
> sand the material down till all blak spots are gone. I've tried
> working with the Duponts 225S cleaner (I can't read the washed out
> instructions on bottle). My question is this: will the 225S bind with
> and stop corrosion so I don't have to sand down till all black spots
> are gone? Or is there some other treatment/primer that will? (Talking
> about the aluminum parts here -- for steel I believe rustolium (SP?) or
> such binds with the rust and stops it.) I don't want to weaken the
> material more than neccesary by sanding it too thin if there is some
> way to stop further corrosion in the pits.
>
> Any advice (short of "shrow away the kit and buy a new one") is
> welcome. Especially if it'll shorten the corrosion "clean-up" work.
>
> Finn
>
--
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis
phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831
MS: 9530 fax: 512-838-1801
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bennett" <elanora(at)zip.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall Warning Device |
> The Australian authorities require a stall warning device on my 6A, so I
> have rigged up a Cherry microswitch activated by a small hinged stainless
> steel vane, which will poke thru a small slot in the leading edge, just
> like a Piper Cherokee or Arrow.
>
> Does anyone have any idea where the vane should be in relation to the
> chord line, or any other reference point, so it will trip the switch at 5
> knots above the stall.
>
> The switch will activate one of the alarm circuits built into the Rocky
> Mountain engine monitor.
>
>
> Graham Taylor
> RV-6A - F/Fwd complete, a few small jobs before final plumbing, wiring, etc.
>
Graham,
I have made a similar Cherokee style device. I made the bold
assumption that the rib form tooling holes are on or parallel to the
chord line. From memory, the leading edge is the circumference of a
circle whose centre is 1" above the tooling holes. I drew a line
through this centre parallel to the tooling hole line, then located
the stall warning tab hinge point on this line. From this hinge
point, I drew a line forward and angled down 15 degrees. I cut the hole in the
leading edge where this line came through. Therefore the tab will be
horizontal when the wing is at 15 degrees angle of attack. If this is
not quite right, I will bend the tab.
BTW, have you checked the force necessary to activate the
microswitch? I made an optical device to ensure it would operate at
40 kt.
Do you plan to get Reg 35 approval?
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 skinning fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Re: Phlogiston spars |
>Dan,
>
>I finished my spars in 40-45 hours, one of the few places on the RV where I
>can say I worked for ~$20/hour. It is relatively simple - since all the
>holes are drilled. All you do is taper the flange strips (about a day and 2
>band saw blades), deburr everything, prime and rivet. There are at least 5
>different ways you can rivet the spars (my method is on John Hovan's web
>site -w/pictures).
>I think, if you trying to speed up your progress (at the expense of the
>educational portion of the project) you will get quite a bang for your buck
>out the Steve Barnard's Wing Kit (but I think you need the Phlogiston spars
>for that).
>
>rich -6a skinning the fuse
>
>=======================================================================
>Rich Klee 4564 Chicago Ave.
>rich_klee(at)ccm.fm.intel.com Fair Oaks, CA 95628
>(916) 863-1927 (will accept faxes)
>=======================================================================
>
>
>
>Are the phlogiston spars worth the extra $825? Maybe someone could give me
>some insight into this. How much time does it actually save? I work where
>we have alot of our components annodized before use. This results in the
>material becoming harder and more brittle. Does this have any affect on
>these spars? I know that the corrosion is almost nil with components that
>have been annodized. I have seen 6061 that has been annodized hold up to
>daily submersion in seawater for years without any corrosion.
>
>Dan Shades RV-4
>
>
I used the Steve Barnard's Wing Kit. There is no requirement to use the
Phlogiston spar. The wing kit is very complete and cuts down on the
fabrication of a lot of parts. In my case, I think the quality of his parts
is higher than if I would have made them but I am sure if I did make them
they would be perfectly servicable. Another example of builders choice.
Time vs money vs education.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892
2300 Oakmont Way #205 Fax: 541-342-5492
Eugene, Oregon 97401 email: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
Has anyone checked out the autopilots and fuel injection systems availible
through Empire Development? Check out the home page at
http://user.aol.com/chanik/ed. The three axis autopilot is selling for
$700. Sounds to good to be true.
Here is the discription:
The SE5b is a tri-axis trim-tab autopilot, implementing pitch and roll
control with 1/4-scale servo motors and relying, for its input, on a
combination ofGPS or Loran receiver for heading/bearing/XTE information, a
solid-state pressure sensor for altitude data and dual tilt
sensors for improved system response. The unit operates in any of these
three modes:
I) Conventional electric trim control (default), via a push-button quad.
II) Match bearing, when the unit adjusts roll trim in order to track heading
to way-point bearing.
III) Hold heading, when the unit tracks to maintain the current heading.
In either mode II or III, the unit holds pressure altitude to that which was
recorded when the unit was engaged. The SE5b can read NMEA-0183b format from
the GPS/Loran and will hold +/-2deg on heading and +/-50ft on altitude. The
unit draws 2 Amps, and includes servo reversing and an LED mode/status
indicator. This system is intended for day-VFR use only. Cost is $699.00
complete with two trim servos, connection hardware, LED mode indicator and 4
micro push-button switches. (The 2-axis version is $599.00 with one servo.)
The unit even has provisions to accept future upgrades to the flight control
software. High-Torque servos for direct connection to control linkages are
available for an additional $30 per axis. There is a 60-day money-back
guarantee as well as a 1-year warranty.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892
2300 Oakmont Way #205 Fax: 541-342-5492
Eugene, Oregon 97401 email: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4BILDR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Phlogiston spars |
Dan,
It is worth every cent! As for the time savings, Van's gives a rough
estimate in the manual somewhere. The brittleness is not a factor until some
ridiculous time afterward (you will not live that long). The best thing about
the spar is that there are no mistakes made and if one is made it is there
responsibility to correct.
Best of luck,
Mike, RV-4 working on
fuse.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino) |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injection vs. Normal Aspiration |
I have had some limited experience with fuel injection. I have found that
as long as you can get enough fuel pressure, starting is not a problem. The
only time you usually will have a problem is on hot days after short stops.
Using proper starting techniques and good fuel line routing is a must. Also
remember that IFR is not the only time you can get carb ice. Clear days
with the right conditions can be conducive to the formation of carb ice.
Jim Cimino CFII
RV-4 sn 4079 possibly the RV-8
>
>I have listened with great interest to anecdotal information about the
>vagaries of fuel injection systems. I've looked at literature on the
>Ellison and Airflow Performance systems but don't feel I have enough
>information to make a sensible choice. As I understand it, fuel injection
>provides a modest increase in effective horsepower at mid-range power
>settings, but not at max power. It is virtually immune to icing and will
>sustain fuel-air flow inverted. I have also heard that fuel injected
>engines are more difficult to start and injection systems can be
>troublesome and difficult to troubleshoot. My aerobatics will be limited
>to positive-G maneuvers. I will fly IFR but not in icing conditions.
>
>Just two days ago I ordered my fuselage and finishing kits, an O-360-A1A,
>and c/s prop. I indicated on my order an Ellison installation. I'm
>inclined to change it, but I'm really on the fence. I would appreciate
>hearing anyone's thoughts about this important choice, any experiences you
>have had, or references I might find that would help me shed some
>additional light on the issue.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Jack Abell
>RV-6A Elevator
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lewis <lewisjw(at)hqsocom.af.mil> |
Subject: Ford 3.8 engine
On 22 Feb 96, Vern Lemasters wrote: ...installing Ford 3.8...appreciate,
advice etc...~
Anyone working on an auto engine installation can glean a tremendous amount
of info and advice from Richard Finch's 1991 book, "Converting Auto Engines
for Experimental Aircraft". He is one engineer who has thought this issue
through very carefully.~
Order from Finch, PO Box 3946, Santa Barbara, CA 93130 $22 pp (USA)~
Also look for an article by Finch in the April KITPLANES featuring the
Belted Air Power's new Chevy 4.3 for RV6s --- as a complete, ready to
bolt on package!~
Joe Lewis, RV6 Empennage on the jig, Tampa Bay, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen ) |
| Subject: | Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question |
That doesn't sound right. If the antenna and radio are correctly
matched and you're using the correct impedance coax (e.g. 50 ohms),
then the shorter the better (less loss).
Anyone else who's second that?
Finn
You wrote:
>
>By the way... did you know you are not suppose to shorten the coax
supplied
>with the antenna, My avionics shop made a point of telling me it is
tuned to
>lenght.
>They had me wind it up under the floor and secure it.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
>Fellow Rver's: Is there anyone even remotely close to Nebraska that has a
>150 hp RV-6 with a prop that provides good take off, climb and cruise
>performance so that I could fly to your airport and switch props for a test
>flight. The prop manufacture feels like he has reduced pitch considerably
>and that I need to look into the power producing ability of my engine. I've
>checked compression, intake system and mag timing and everything seems to
>check out OK. Don't know where else to look. It seems that if we switched
>props, we could tell fairly easily if it was an engine problem or prop
>problem. I'd even bring along some famous Nebraska T-bones. The prop bolts
>are 3/8".
>Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6
>
Bob, If no one closer responds, try me. I'm 65 miles sw of FT WORTH TX.
Admittedly, a long way from Neb. Be warned, mine is a metal prop. I'm not
sure what the normal is, but we can talk about what my 6 does and start from
there. I assume that you have run a static test on it? Somewhere I'v seen
numbers of what static should be, and that is the way I checked mine. I'm
wanting to say that static should be about 2450rpm, but don't hold my feet
to the fire on that. I believe you said about 650 fpm climb, that does sound
low. The other day I had a pass, full fuel, oat 45 degrees and climbed at
115 with 1800fpm. The vvi may be off, but it is reasonably close, I timed
it during my flyoff and it was accurate. Also, have you used a prop tach to
ck your rpm? I'm on my 3rd tach, they have been as much as 450 off! Two new
ones were the worst. I now have one from a parted out wreck, it is ONLY 125
off! But the most accurate one I've found. I invested in a Prop Tach and use
it on and off. If I build again, I'd start with an elect. unit. Let me know.
John D RV6 N61764 completed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen ) |
| Subject: | Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question |
If the GS is really at 330MHz then you'd have a 3/4 wavelength antenna,
using an VOR (110MHz) 1/4 wavelength antenna. Where's the mismatch in
that? Wouldn't that give you better gain (except for the splitter
loss)?
Finn
You wrote:
> Yes, you could use a VOR antenna to receive glideslope
>signals. HOWEVER, you would be working with a de-tuned antenna.
>Performance will be suboptimal. In a receive-only situation (like the
>glideslope receiver) you can get away with this if you are willing to
>live with the performance penalty. With a *transmitter*, this is
>strictly a no-no.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question |
Since I started this thread I saw my avionics shop wizard at the airport
today, so I asked him again. He says, again, that the coax supplied with
the antenna
should not be cut. It is tuned (as in wavelength) to the antenna. All I know
is that it works well.
Thats good enough for me.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
>That doesn't sound right. If the antenna and radio are correctly
>matched and you're using the correct impedance coax (e.g. 50 ohms),
>then the shorter the better (less loss).
>Anyone else who's second that?
>
>
>Finn
>
>
>You wrote:
>>
>>By the way... did you know you are not suppose to shorten the coax
>supplied
>>with the antenna, My avionics shop made a point of telling me it is
>tuned to
>>lenght.
>>They had me wind it up under the floor and secure it.
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bobveit(at)interserv.com |
| Subject: | Re: Landing lights |
I am interested in your flasher. You can send info to Bob Veit, Rt 2 Box 2693
Bartlesville, OK 74006-9737 or if it is emailable to Bobveit(at)interserv.com
Thanks in advance. Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Skin Dimpling |
> How do you dimple the center aileron top skin for the row of rivets
>joining the skin to the spar? The C-tool does not reach the center five
>rivet holes from either side. No other tool I have will dimple this
>section and I don't like the idea of bending the aileron leading edge flat
>to use the C-tool.
Ahhh, grasshopper, you want the ancient RV secret eh? First, another set of
hands helps a lot. Use the C-tool, and come at it from the leading edge with
the skin upside-down. Get the bottom L.E. "flap" of skin past the tools ram
and let the ram down slightly to keep the skin there. Gently pull the skin
back until the maile die pops into the hole, while holding the main portion
of the bottom skin out of the way.
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Metal vs. wood jigs |
>Is this what folks are doing or should I just cut a 3x6" hole in the
>ceiling to get a firm fix on the rafter?
There are two very good reasons for not cutting the hole. One, it isn't
necessary. Lag bolting it to the rafter will provide plenty of strength.
The items the jig will be holding don't weigh that much. Two, and most
importantly, you will give your wife MANY reasons to leave you during this
project; don't start before you open the first box.... :)
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Spins in RV's |
>I have a copy of the tape and if the pilot ok's it I could duplicate it for
>those that want to see this. Let me know.
>
Me! Me!
Thanks,
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Skin Dimpling |
I took one of my bucking bars and drilled a hole to accept the female dimple
die and then used an adaptor for my rivet gun to hold the male die. Using
the lowest pressure that would run the gun and a careful trigger finger, I
tap tap tapped the dimples in places that I could not reach any other way.
This worked great.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
Fitting cowl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kightdm(at)carol.net (Danny Kight) |
| Subject: | Re: Metal vs. wood jigs |
.....>There's a question at the bottom of this page, I promise!
>
>My wife discovered this afternoon that I planned to knock holes in the
>garage ceiling. She suggested that I lag bolt the top of the upright
>to a rafter rather than going through with the entire thing. I could
>use a two L supports and cut the beam flush with the ceiling.
>
>Is this what folks are doing or should I just cut a 3x6" hole in the
>ceiling to get a firm fix on the rafter?
Mickey,
I used a wooden jig to build my Sonerai, (currently flying @ 230 hours) and
I just finished my RV-6 empennage on one with good results. I screwed a 2
foot long 2x4 to the ceiling in my garage using 6" wood screws. (One over
each upright) Locate this directly under and parallel to a rafter. On the
concrete floor of the garage, I GLUED 2 foot 2x4s directly under the ones on
the ceiling. Use a plumb bob. I used the ADHESIVE type of silicon caulk in
a caulk gun for this. It is available at Home Depot, Wal-Mart, etc. I then
cut the uprights to fit between the upper and lower 2x4s. Attach the
uprights with scrap 2x4 pieces scabbed over the joints.
This makes a very sturdy jig, and when you are done, you can pry the 2x4s
off the floor, leaving a very faint stain, and unscrew the 2x4s from the
ceiling. I have a blown ceiling in the garage, and it didn't even mess that
up. There are just a few screw holes which could be easily puttied in.
Good luck,
Danny Kight kightdm(at)carol.net
RV-6 finished empennage, starting wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
>Fellow Rver's: Is there anyone even remotely close to Nebraska that has a
>150 hp RV-6 with a prop that provides good take off, climb and cruise
>performance so that I could fly to your airport and switch props for a test
>flight. The prop manufacture feels like he has reduced pitch considerably
>and that I need to look into the power producing ability of my engine. I've
>checked compression, intake system and mag timing and everything seems to
>check out OK. Don't know where else to look. It seems that if we switched
>props, we could tell fairly easily if it was an engine problem or prop
>problem. I'd even bring along some famous Nebraska T-bones. The prop bolts
>are 3/8".
>Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6
>
How close is Seattle to Nebraska in your opinion?? I have an RV-6 with a
150 HP E2A and use a 68 x 69 clone of the Pacesetter 200. It is what I
would consider a 'cruise' prop. With a gross weight of about 1500 #'s I'm
off the ground in about 600 feet at sea level and climb at about 1200 to
1400 fpm. I can cruise at 180 MPH and top out at about 195 MPH.
If you want to try out my prop feel free to fly out to Paine field in
Everett; be sure to bring at least one or two of those T-bones. I'll
provide the King Salmon grilled on my barbarque using my 'special sauce'.
Or, have you ever had fresh Olympia oysters picked off the beach and cooked
in their own juice over a bed of coals? Or, maybe Razor Clams would better
suit you. Yup, Puget Sound does have good munchies. But, we do have too
much rain, floods, fog and cloudy weather.
'Marginal VFR' in Western Washington is when you need to use your portable
GPS to find the airport. If you can see the tower it's ok to fly.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Brown" <danb(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question |
> From: finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen )
> That doesn't sound right. If the antenna and radio are correctly
> matched and you're using the correct impedance coax (e.g. 50 ohms),
> then the shorter the better (less loss).
> Anyone else who's second that?
I will. If everything is matched properly, the feedline shouldn't
be radiating, and its length shouldn't effect the efficiency of the
antenna. I have seen suggestions that changing the length will
somehow rotate the radiation pattern of the antenna, but even that
seems odd. If the length of the feedline _is_ particularly
important, I'm surprised that that fact doesn't appear somewhere on
the amateur radio exams (at least not through Advanced).
--
Dan Brown, KE6MKS, danb(at)a.crl.com
Don't tread on me.
E-Mail may be published at my discretion.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen) |
| Subject: | Pitot & Quadrant |
To the RV Net:
Four questions:
1. Does anyone have a source or idea of how to make or buy a set of
nice little fittings for the pitot static lines where they come out the
rear of the fuselage? (I think that a big pop-rivet is a bit
Mickey-Mouse). I have searched hardware stores but found nothing
exactly right.
2. I am building a -4. Could someone please tell me the pros/cons of
using a throttle quadrant with levers versus using push pull cables.
3. I will use a wood prop. If I buy a quadrant, should I use two or
three levers? Does anyone use the third lever for carb heat? If so,
how do you like that?
4. I think I would prefer my throttle on the right side but most RV-4s
seem to have it on the left. If I put it on the right, is that a big
mistake?
Thanks for your input, Peter B. Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com
______________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Metal vs. wood jigs |
I built a metal jig (RV-4) out of 4" channel for a cost of $180. BTW - if
anyone wants to borrow it in the Albuquerque area you are more than welcome.
This thing is heavy, straight, and IMHO much easier assemble than a wood
jig although I built my first RV-4 on a wood jig (6th airplane off it)
and it did just fine.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
On 21 Feb 1996, Bob Kutschke wrote:
> I'm getting close to ordering the fuselage kit from Van's and am beginning to
> wonder about jig construction. Is the wood jig decribed in the plans sufficient
> enough to build a plane that doesn't fly sideways?
>
> I have gotten some info from Stephen Frey on the metal jigs he sells/rents, but
> $1000+ seems like an awful lot. Unless of course a metal jig is so much better
> than a wood jig. Does anyone have any experience with the Frey metal jig? Or
> better yet, does anyone have one they would like to sell?
>
> If using a wood jig, are there any details not in the plans that might save me
> any headaches? What is the best type of lumber for construction?
>
> BTW: This is my first visit to the RV-List. My name is Bob Kutschke. I am
> currently building an RV-6A (wings almost done). I live in Birmingham, AL, so
> if anyone is in the area with an RV project, I'd love a chance to take a peek.
>
> Bob Kutschke
> 73244.1501(at)compuserve.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Taylor <gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au> |
| Subject: | Stall Warning Device |
THanks to all those who have offered advice. I have made a full size
template of the nose rib, out of stiff card, and will do the rounds of the
strip tomorrow, checking out Pipers in particular. As long as I make
provision for an adjustment up or down, I should be able to get exactly
the amount of warning I want.
I wouldn't be able to do a tuft job to determine the separation point, as
the lower edge of the leading edge wouldn't be visable.
The Cherry microswitch came from a photcopier which was being stripped.
I have made up a balance beam to measure the pressure at which a Cherokee
switch trips - it was about 11 grams - very light. The photocopier
switch is even a shade lighter, but I can't see that will matter. The
switch itself is quite small : 1 1/16" long, 5/8" deep, and 13/32"
thick. I've made up a frame out of scrap 32 thou aluminium. The switch
bolts to the frame using small bolts and nylock nuts I bought from the
local hobby shop, plus Locktite for extra security.
The stainless steel vane is cut out of a scrap of 40 thou. With the
current frame, switch position and vane pivot point, a movement of about
1/4" will trip the switch - about the same as a Cherokee.
The alarm circuit in the Rocky Mountain monitor draws a miniscule
current, so I don't have to worry about arcing the switch, but if you
intend to directly trigger a large buzzer/light you might want to make sure
the switch is rated for DC.
By the way, Aircraft Spruce sells the REAL THING for US$1128.40, and the
switch alone for $544.40. Wow!!
Cheers,
Graham Taylor gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question |
>That doesn't sound right. If the antenna and radio are correctly
>matched and you're using the correct impedance coax (e.g. 50 ohms),
>then the shorter the better (less loss).
>Anyone else who's second that?
>
>
>Finn
>
Finn,
I know zilch about this stuff, but there have been many articles by experts,
and they say that the connector has to be not only the right impedence, but
then there is something about a 'standing wave' reflector or something. They
recommend you get a 'swr' meter and find the right length for the coax. For
all I know, this is to get 1/2 of 1 percent increase, or it may be to get 99
percent increase. An article in Sport Planes or Kit Planes a while back
covered this very well. I know the formula they gave for the beginning
lengths worked for me. I can dig the article out if any one is interested.
It wasn't just the resistance. And I was like you, figured the shorter the
better. The articles convince me otherwise. Sort of like the lenght of the
ant, has a relation to the freq.
John D RV6 N61764 completed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | lycoming srevice letter 0A524 7 Feb 1996 |
To all:
Got the above mandatory service letter from lycoming this week. Those of you
that are not registered with the feds or lycoming won't be on the mailing
list so you might want to check with someone thats got it. I'd type it, but
it's 4 pages long and I have a few other things to do today. :-)
Pertains to oil pump impellers, both sintered iron and aluminum, in a broad
range of engines. I think this is a rehash of an older bulletin that
covers older engines, but if you are in the bilding stage, now is the time
to check.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Pitot & Quadrant |
>To the RV Net:
>
>Four questions:
>
>1. Does anyone have a source or idea of how to make or buy a set of
>nice little fittings for the pitot static lines where they come out the
>rear of the fuselage? (I think that a big pop-rivet is a bit
>Mickey-Mouse). I have searched hardware stores but found nothing
>exactly right.
>
>2. I am building a -4. Could someone please tell me the pros/cons of
>using a throttle quadrant with levers versus using push pull cables.
>
>3. I will use a wood prop. If I buy a quadrant, should I use two or
>three levers? Does anyone use the third lever for carb heat? If so,
>how do you like that?
>
>4. I think I would prefer my throttle on the right side but most RV-4s
>seem to have it on the left. If I put it on the right, is that a big
>mistake?
>
>Thanks for your input, Peter B. Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com
>______________________________________________________________
>
Peter:
1. Yea ok the pop rivet in my airplane does look a little mickey mouse, but it
works. Cleaveland Aircraft tool has nice machined static ports. If I did
it again I'd use those. Located in Boone Iowa. Somebody will post the
number I'm
sure. Say Hi to Buz @ D.J. for me. (the owners and RV-4 builders)
2. Quadrants are compact, work well, we don't have as much room as a 6 and
you don't have anybody sitting next to you that has to reach them. Easier
to rig
rear seat controls to.
3. Carb Heat on the quadrant works fine. It's your, airplane do whatever
you want. I incorporated the trim lever into mine and like it alot. Alot of
people
change the quadrants around to fit their needs. I modified one into a 4 lever
with throttle, mixture, prop, & trim. Carb heat is on the 403 bulkhead. I
modified a stock quadrant to narrow it and it works great. Jim Winings, in
Indianapolis built one from scratch, It is the best quadtrant I've ever seen.
4. You are probably use to certified side by side seating with the controls
centered. Again. It's yours, do whatever you want. I don't know why centerline
seated aircraft use lefthand quadrants, but it's been that way forever I guess.
Certainly is comfortable once you fly it for awhile.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pitot & Quadrant |
A>1. Does anyone have a source or idea of how to make or buy a set of
>nice little fittings for the pitot static lines where they come out the
>rear of the fuselage? (I think that a big pop-rivet is a bit
>Mickey-Mouse). I have searched hardware stores but found nothing
>exactly right.
>
Cleavland Aircraft tools has two nice looking static port fittings for $
21.00. Kind of pricey, though. Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
A>How close is Seattle to Nebraska in your opinion?? I have an RV-6 with a
>150 HP E2A and use a 68 x 69 clone of the Pacesetter 200. It is what I
>would consider a 'cruise' prop. With a gross weight of about 1500 #'s I'm
>off the ground in about 600 feet at sea level and climb at about 1200 to
>1400 fpm. I can cruise at 180 MPH and top out at about 195 MPH.
>
>If you want to try out my prop feel free to fly out to Paine field in
>Everett; be sure to bring at least one or two of those T-bones. I'll
>provide the King Salmon grilled on my barbarque using my 'special sauce'.
>Or, have you ever had fresh Olympia oysters picked off the beach and cooked
>in their own juice over a bed of coals? Or, maybe Razor Clams would better
>suit you. Yup, Puget Sound does have good munchies. But, we do have too
>much rain, floods, fog and cloudy weather.
>
>'Marginal VFR' in Western Washington is when you need to use your portable
>GPS to find the airport. If you can see the tower it's ok to fly.
>
>
>John Ammeter
>ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
>Seattle WA, USA
>RV-6 N16JA
>Flying 5 years
>
John: How close is Nebraska to Seattle? The other side of the world. I
agree about the weather. I went to Van's homecoming last fall and couldn't
believe that you guys actully fly in that stuff. The locals said it was
great weather. I appreciate your kind offer but if we ate all that stuff,
I'd never get my RV off the ground. Sounds good enough, you never know, I
might make the trip. First, I'll try to find something a little closer.
Thanks for the offer. Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Espen Dahl <dahl(at)sn.no> |
| Subject: | Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question |
>That doesn't sound right. If the antenna and radio are correctly
>matched and you're using the correct impedance coax (e.g. 50 ohms),
>then the shorter the better (less loss).
>Anyone else who's second that?
>
>
>Finn
>
Finn!
Well... in many applications dealing with hf/VHF/UHF you also have to keep
reflections under control.
Espen Dahl
--
- Espen Dahl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Phlogiston spars |
>Are the phlogiston spars worth the extra $825? Maybe someone could give me
>some insight into this. How much time does it actually save? I work where
>we have alot of our components annodized before use. This results in the
>material becoming harder and more brittle. Does this have any affect on
>these spars? I know that the corrosion is almost nil with components that
>have been annodized. I have seen 6061 that has been annodized hold up to
>daily submersion in seawater for years without any corrosion.
>
I imagine you'll get a mountain of replies on this, but here's my 2 cents.
The spars are probably the most feared and misunderstood part of the entire
kit. They ARE arguably the most important piece of the airplane and their
construction should be done with utmost care. That being said, however, it
isn't that tough. If you've built the rest of the airplane up to this point
you certainly have the skill to build the spars.
I wrestled with the same question, as has everyone else that ever built an
RV. After much reading and talking with builders I decided to build my own.
The difficulty is amazingly small when you've built yourself up to expecting
a monumental project. Get a copy of the Orndorff video (It really helps to
see everything before and after each step, and the video is very well done
here) and watch it a couple of times. Then jump in. It took me about 50
hours to do both spars and it wasn't difficult at all. Scary at first, but a
big rivet is no harder to buck than a #3. The money IMHO, can be better
spent on $50 cheeseburgers :)
There is an article in an old RVator about anodizing. It does decrease the
fatigue life by a factor of 2, so the spars will only last 100 years instead
of 200...
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
>The SE5b is a tri-axis trim-tab autopilot, implementing pitch and roll
>control with 1/4-scale servo motors and relying, for its input, on a
>combination ofGPS or Loran receiver for heading/bearing/XTE information, a
Wow. It sure does sound too good to be true. I wonder if anyone has tried
this?
- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com (Michael McGee) |
| Subject: | Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question |
>> From: finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen )
>
>> That doesn't sound right. If the antenna and radio are correctly
>> matched and you're using the correct impedance coax (e.g. 50 ohms),
>> then the shorter the better (less loss).
>> Anyone else who's second that?
>
> I will. If everything is matched properly, the feedline shouldn't
>be radiating, and its length shouldn't effect the efficiency of the
>antenna. I have seen suggestions that changing the length will
>somehow rotate the radiation pattern of the antenna, but even that
>seems odd. If the length of the feedline _is_ particularly
>important, I'm surprised that that fact doesn't appear somewhere on
>the amateur radio exams (at least not through Advanced).
>--
>Dan Brown, KE6MKS, danb(at)a.crl.com
>Don't tread on me.
>E-Mail may be published at my discretion.
>
>
Keep in mind a couple of things:
1. By nature (or design) coax does not radiate like an antenna does. It's
energy losses (from impedence) are a product of two conductors side by side.
2. Impedance is not the same as resistance. The antenna circuit is ac not
dc, so the optimum or max power output is frequency dependant. The coax
length is a part of the tuning of that circuit. If you change the length,
peak power output will likely be somewhere other than the VHF-aircraft
frequency range where we want to be.
So...
Coil the coax up like we are told to do, -and-
coil it up as far forward as possible for that extra little fraction of
improved c.g
It's the little details...
Blue skies
Mike McGee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Williams <terry(at)ouijibo.netcom.com> |
Man....
Forget the prop. I'm on my way for the food!=20
tw
Begin forwarded message:
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 22:01:19 -0800
From: ammeterj.seanet.com!ammeterj(at)matronics.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: RV-List: Props
>Fellow Rver's: Is there anyone even remotely close to Nebraska =
that has a
>150 hp RV-6 with a prop that provides good take off, climb and =
cruise
>performance so that I could fly to your airport and switch props =
for a test
>flight. The prop manufacture feels like he has reduced pitch =
considerably
>and that I need to look into the power producing ability of my =
engine. I've
>checked compression, intake system and mag timing and everything =
seems to
>check out OK. Don't know where else to look. It seems that if =
we switched
>props, we could tell fairly easily if it was an engine problem or =
prop
>problem. I'd even bring along some famous Nebraska T-bones. The =
prop bolts
>are 3/8".
>Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6
>
How close is Seattle to Nebraska in your opinion?? I have an RV-6 =
with a
150 HP E2A and use a 68 x 69 clone of the Pacesetter 200. It is =
what I
would consider a 'cruise' prop. With a gross weight of about 1500 =
#'s I'm
off the ground in about 600 feet at sea level and climb at about =
1200 to
1400 fpm. I can cruise at 180 MPH and top out at about 195 MPH.
If you want to try out my prop feel free to fly out to Paine field =
in
Everett; be sure to bring at least one or two of those T-bones. =
I'll
provide the King Salmon grilled on my barbarque using my 'special =
sauce'.
Or, have you ever had fresh Olympia oysters picked off the beach =
and cooked
in their own juice over a bed of coals? Or, maybe Razor Clams =
would better
suit you. Yup, Puget Sound does have good munchies. But, we do =
have too
much rain, floods, fog and cloudy weather. =20
'Marginal VFR' in Western Washington is when you need to use your =
portable
GPS to find the airport. If you can see the tower it's ok to fly.
=20
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________