RV-Archive.digest.vol-bd

February 27, 1996 - March 06, 1996



      
      >Now, if somebody has a cost-effective and simple AOA device, THAT would be 
      >the
      >best solution (and be the first thing in my panel).
      
      Somebody asked about this several weeks ago and I will offer the same 
      info I answered with then. Page 43, "Craftsman's Corner" of the January 
      1979 SPORT AVIATION magazine discusses an inexpensive homebuilt AOA 
      indicator. It is pitot/static based and uses an airspeed indicator with a 
      repainted dial face to indicate units of AOA.
      
      This idea was obtained from EAA Chapter 124 (Santa Rosa, CA) newsletter, 
      which attributed the design to Lyle S Power, Jr., M.D., EAA 38012, 117 El 
      Camino Corto, Walnut Creek, CA 94596. This address is 17 years old, so I 
      can't say it is still good. I cannot personally vouch for this device, 
      but they claim it worked great.
      
      Mike Kukulski (kukulskim(at)aol.com)
      RV-4 N96MK (installing trim cable)
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: KUKULSKIM(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 27, 1996
Subject: Re: Elevator counterbalance weights
Subject: Re: RV-List: Elevator counterbalance weights Sent: 2/26/96 22:49 Previously written: >PLEASE BE CARFULL, Molten lead is VERY >DANGEROUS!!!!!!! This particular buffoon can second this statement. I also recommend the use of modeling clay to dam up the counterbalance arm before pouring versus the crumpled aluminum foil method. Also use a heavy scrap piece of plywood to protect the floor if it is something you'd rather not damage. I say this because I used the aluminum foil, wondered how so much molten lead could go into the counterbalance cavity, looked under the elevator, and saw my lead hardening on the kraft paper I had put on the floor for "protection". Yup, no lead on the floor, but molten lead will transfer heat quite nicely through brown paper and burn the heck out of your wife's kitchen vinyl flooring. Then you stop RV a-buildin' and make like Bob Vila with the kitchen floor renovation. Bad business!!! Mike Kukulski (kukulskim(at)aol.com) RV-4 N96MK (Installing trim cable) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 27, 1996
Subject: Re: Static Ports: Flush vs Domed
>Static ports are sensitive things. It is possible to change the pressure that >is >sensed by placing obstructions around or near them to adjust airspeed >calibrations. The location of the ports on the fuselage may require >compensation >to account for a non zero pressure coefficient in that area. The domed shape >may >provide a necessary pressure increment not available from the machined flush >ones. Have any of the members switched? > >David Fried >DF-6 C-____ >dfried(at)dehavilland.ca I used the flush ones from Spruce & Specialty. They work great in the location specified by Van's. Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MaynardB(at)snowmass.ksc.nasa.gov
Subject: AIR FOIL TEMPLATES/ FUS. JIG
Date: Feb 27, 1996
Does anyone around the Central Florida area have a pair of good RV6A air foil templates I could borrow for a few days. Also does anyone (Florida)have an RV6A fus. jig to sell . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
Date: Feb 27, 1996
Subject: Re: Autopilots
I have requested the names of any RV builders who have purchased this system. Two RV 4 builders have bought it, one is not flying yet and the he is checking on the other. I will keep you posted. Ross Mickey Skinning Fuse 6A >RV-listers, > He spoke at our last Chapter 40 EAA meeting. He also sells >IvoProps (he make the electronic constant speed control unit for Ivo) and a >neat Electronic Ignition magneto replacement. The units seemed quite well >made. > > On some homebuilts with sensitive pitch, the spring actuation may >not be sufficient, however for wing levelling and GPS tracking he claims >good results. The unit does respond to both slow and fast (i.e. >turbulence) inputs and is basically a "heading maintainer" driven by a GPS >output. Since the GPS only has about a 1 second update rate, an additional >motion based sensor is used for the turbulence induced corrections. The >hook up is via springs and large RC servo units (nicely cost effective -- >BTW, the MAC servos we use are loosely based on the old Kraft RC servo >technology - both from Vista, CA.). > The physical aileron hook-up seems identical to Vans optional >"manual aileron trim" hookup. I would guess that the manual trim lever >could be replaced by the RC servo, the same springs used, and manual trim >would be achieved by means of the panel mounted trim knob on the control >unit. He regards the spring hookup as part of the safety system, allowing >user overide at any time. > > Seems to be a neat application of GPS technology. > > Sounds like we should get one of the flying RV-listers to try it >out ..... :^) ... if it works well, it's a lot cheaper than the Navaid >unit. He has several units out flying, but I'm not sure if any are >installed in a RV. Any volunteers?? > > Personally, I am going to buy one of his Electronic ignition units >as soon as I start intalling my engine. I presently have a 1800 TT >O-320-E2G with two Slick "throw-away" mags that are now deemed unairworthy >by Slick ... :^( The electronic ignition unit is approximately the same >price as a new exchange mag., with a claimed 8 to 10 percent savings in >cruise fuel consumption, purely by getting the correct ignition timing >based on rpm and manifold pressure. One mag. and one elec. ign. unit seems >a good compromise between technolgy and back-up systems. > > > ... Gil Alexander > >gil(at)rassp.hac.com >RV-6A, #20701 .... canopy and internal stuff, going on vacation > back to England this week, will see if Andair fuel > selector valves are any cheaper there .. :^) > > >>He uses model airplane servos with springs to control the ailerons and >>elevator on your RV. I think in turbulence I would like a little more >>positive control, and a means to disconnect it if necessary. >> >>Fred Stucklen Rv-6A N925RV >> >> >> >>>Has anyone checked out the autopilots and fuel injection systems availible >>>through Empire Development? Check out the home page at >>>http://user.aol.com/chanik/ed. The three axis autopilot is selling for >>>$700. Sounds to good to be true. >>> >>>Here is the discription: >>> >>> >>>The SE5b is a tri-axis trim-tab autopilot, implementing pitch and roll >>>control with 1/4-scale servo motors and relying, for its input, on a >>>combination ofGPS or Loran receiver for heading/bearing/XTE information, a >>>solid-state pressure sensor for altitude data and dual tilt >>>sensors for improved system response. The unit operates in any of these >>>three modes: >>>I) Conventional electric trim control (default), via a push-button quad. >>>II) Match bearing, when the unit adjusts roll trim in order to track heading >>>to way-point bearing. >>>III) Hold heading, when the unit tracks to maintain the current heading. >>>In either mode II or III, the unit holds pressure altitude to that which was >>>recorded when the unit was engaged. The SE5b can read NMEA-0183b format from >>>the GPS/Loran and will hold +/-2deg on heading and +/-50ft on altitude. The >>>unit draws 2 Amps, and includes servo reversing and an LED mode/status >>>indicator. This system is intended for day-VFR use only. Cost is $699.00 >>>complete with two trim servos, connection hardware, LED mode indicator and 4 >>>micro push-button switches. (The 2-axis version is $599.00 with one servo.) >>>The unit even has provisions to accept future upgrades to the flight control >>>software. High-Torque servos for direct connection to control linkages are >>>available for an additional $30 per axis. There is a 60-day money-back >>>guarantee as well as a 1-year warranty. >>> >>> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
Date: Feb 27, 1996
Subject: Re: R. M. Encoder as Stall Warning Device
I wrote to Dr. Power about two weeks ago and haven't heard anything back. I'll let you know if I do. Ross Mickey Skining Fuse 6A >You wrote: > >>Now, if somebody has a cost-effective and simple AOA device, THAT would be >>the >>best solution (and be the first thing in my panel). > >Somebody asked about this several weeks ago and I will offer the same >info I answered with then. Page 43, "Craftsman's Corner" of the January >1979 SPORT AVIATION magazine discusses an inexpensive homebuilt AOA >indicator. It is pitot/static based and uses an airspeed indicator with a >repainted dial face to indicate units of AOA. > >This idea was obtained from EAA Chapter 124 (Santa Rosa, CA) newsletter, >which attributed the design to Lyle S Power, Jr., M.D., EAA 38012, 117 El >Camino Corto, Walnut Creek, CA 94596. This address is 17 years old, so I >can't say it is still good. I cannot personally vouch for this device, >but they claim it worked great. > >Mike Kukulski (kukulskim(at)aol.com) >RV-4 N96MK (installing trim cable) > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1996
From: Robert Acker <75104.3077(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: R.M. Encoder as Stall Warning Device
>> I think you are confusing an increase in stall speed with an increase in the load factor. << I already got called on this one...I forgot to take the square of the load first before multiplying by Vso. >> >60 deg. bank - 112 mph (yikes!) * Yikes is right - I'd sure hate to fly this airplane. << At least I got the "yikes" part right . Rob. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1996
From: Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com>
Subject: Re: Pitot & Quadrant
I'll respond to the first question. I used a #8 screw/platenut on both sides. I drilled a #55 hole right through the screw, you'll find 1/4" tube fits over it perfectly. I left about 2" extention in that longeron for this but it would work just fine at the bulkhead too. Dan On Fri, 23 Feb 1996, Peter B. Mortensen wrote: > To the RV Net: > > Four questions: > > 1. Does anyone have a source or idea of how to make or buy a set of > nice little fittings for the pitot static lines where they come out the > rear of the fuselage? (I think that a big pop-rivet is a bit > Mickey-Mouse). I have searched hardware stores but found nothing > exactly right. > > 2. I am building a -4. Could someone please tell me the pros/cons of > using a throttle quadrant with levers versus using push pull cables. > > 3. I will use a wood prop. If I buy a quadrant, should I use two or > three levers? Does anyone use the third lever for carb heat? If so, > how do you like that? > > 4. I think I would prefer my throttle on the right side but most RV-4s > seem to have it on the left. If I put it on the right, is that a big > mistake? > > Thanks for your input, Peter B. Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com > ______________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1996
From: mike casmey <102023.1363(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Fixing Flap Hinge
I forgot to put the hinge pin in the hinge while I was riveting one of my flaps and it really does make a difference. The pin is quite hard to push in and I do not want to drill out all the rivets. Has anyone figured out a way to straighten out the hinge to make the pin go in easier after it has been riveted on the flap. I know about cutting the pin in half and removing some of the hinge in the center, but I prefer to leave it the way it is and straighten it as best I can. Thanks Mike Casmey Mpls, MN RV-4 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1996
From: Bob Kutschke <73244.1501(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Frey Jig
Bob, I've got all the current prices for the Frey jigs at home. I'll post them tonight when I get home. Rentals are for a minimum of 6 months. I don't remember the exact rental price, but with his current Sun-n-Fun pricing special another $100 or so gets you your own jig for keeps. Bob Kutschke 73244.1501(at)compuserve.com Finishing up the Wings (6A) > Bob Busick wrote: > >I may have missed it but how do you contact Frey to get a metal jig and >does any one know how much he wants to rent it. I have another RV-6 friend >in town and he needs a jig now!! If anyone has a wood jig for sale in the >Southwest let me know. We live in Las Cruces NM. > >Bob Busick >RV-6 >rbusick(at)nmsu.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1996
From: "Steve Day" <sday(at)pharmcomp.com>
Subject: Spin Question
With all this talk of spins I've been visualizing some of the comments and have a question for someone who has experienced a spin in the RV. How violent are spins in the rv and how many G's are actually developed during a spin? Is the loss of altitude really 15000 ft/min? If so, I didn't realize you are traveling at 180mph in the vertical direction during a spin. I'm not confident that I understand what is happening in a spin. From my understanding the inside wing is stalled producing little or no lift and the outside wing is not in a stall condition therefore lifting the wing which gives the rolling motion. Also, the stalled wing is producing a lot of drag which adds to the spin. Obviously I'm not an aerodynamicist, could someone throw me some good details. -Steve Day sday(at)pharmcomp.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1996
From: Bob Kutschke <73244.1501(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Firewall construction
Has anyone tried the BAC firewall kit offered through Van's? It is similar to the wing fast build kit with all firewall components cut, drilled, and anodized ready to be rivetted together. BAC is saying it should cut about 40-50 hours out of construction. So, it will probably save me 60-70 hours. The kit is $525, which works out to around $8-9/hr for this builder. How long does the firewall normally take, and is it that difficult to form the many pieces that make it up? Does this kit sound worthwhile for someone wanting to get in the air safely and affordably, yet quickly? Bob Kutschke 73244.1501(at)compuserve.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1996
From: Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com>
Subject: Re: Fixing Flap Hinge
I'd try to put the pin in, see where it hangs and straighten each section the best I could. Then use some dry graphite (I saw one guy use lapping cmpd. on the net which seems like a good idea too) and drill the pin in several times till it goes in better. Dan Boudro RV-4 N9167Z if I only had a hanager! On 27 Feb 1996, mike casmey wrote: > I forgot to put the hinge pin in the hinge while I was riveting one of my flaps > and it really does make a difference. The pin is quite hard to push in and I do > not want to drill out all the rivets. > Has anyone figured out a way to straighten out the hinge to make the pin go in > easier after it has been riveted on the flap. I know about cutting the pin in > half and removing some of the hinge in the center, but I prefer to leave it the > way it is and straighten it as best I can. > > > Thanks > > Mike Casmey > Mpls, MN RV-4 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1996
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: Re: Spin Question
You wrote: > >With all this talk of spins I've been visualizing some of the >comments and have a question for someone who has experienced a spin in >the RV. How violent are spins in the rv and how many G's are actually >developed during a spin? Is the loss of altitude really 15000 ft/min? > If so, I didn't realize you are traveling at 180mph in the vertical >direction during a spin. > >-Steve Day >sday(at)pharmcomp.com > > Come on, Steve, quit exaggerating. 15000 ft/min down is only 170 mph! :') Actually, I've always thought that spins had a relatively modest descent rate and were relatively low G. I mean, haven't we all heard the story of someone caught VFR 'on top' who spins down thru the clouds to avoid the possibility of a 'graveyard spiral'? I have done spins, both right-side up and upside down, in a Decathlon and thought it was pretty mild. But, of course, a Decathlon is not an RV. I guess there are spins and there are spins. (By the way, Gene Littlefield was in the back seat, which might have had something to do with my mild manner!) I'll be interested in the responses to your questions from some of the experienced RV 'spinsters'. Bill Costello -- ___ _______________________ \ \ _ _ / / \ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello \ X-*#####*******......./ Chicago / o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on emp. \ \__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com / \______________________\ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1996
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Firewall construction
The Barnard wing kit is lovely and I think very useful because it helps with some jigging issues. I did not use the firewall kit but I would have to say I found the firewall building very enjoyable and if you enjoy the building process I would do it yourself. Leo Davies >Has anyone tried the BAC firewall kit offered through Van's? It is similar to >the wing fast build kit with all firewall components cut, drilled, and anodized >ready to be rivetted together. BAC is saying it should cut about 40-50 hours >out of construction. So, it will probably save me 60-70 hours. The kit is $525, >which works out to around $8-9/hr for this builder. > >How long does the firewall normally take, and is it that difficult to form the >many pieces that make it up? Does this kit sound worthwhile for someone wanting >to get in the air safely and affordably, yet quickly? > >Bob Kutschke >73244.1501(at)compuserve.com > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com>
Subject: Spin Question
Date: Feb 27, 1996
Steve: I haven't performed a spin in an RV (only one flight so far :-< ), but here's some theory. Before any of you aerodynamicist jump down out of my monitor, this is meant to be a pilot's explanation; I realize that I'm simplifying some things here. In a spin, both wings are stalled. The confusion about one wing being stalled and one not probably results from the way spin entry is often explained. The aircraft enters a spin (as opposed to just stalling straight ahead) because one wing stalls slightly more, or slightly deeper, than the other. This is a bit like saying that your car spins out because the back tires start to skid before the front tires: it's sort of true, but it doesn't matter much once they're both skidding. Similarly, once the airplane is in the spin, both wings are equally stalled. A spin is a stable flight attitude, believe it or not. All aerodynamic forces on the aircraft are balanced, so the aircraft C of G experiences no accelerations at all (once stabilized in the spin). Consequently, you only experience one positive G if you are sitting at the C of G (which you are, for all practical purposes, in an RV). That doesn't mean that a spin isn't disorienting, of course. If the rate of rotation is high it can be a bit disconcerting (especially if you didn't plan on spinning). However, GLOC (G-induced Loss of Consciousness) is not an issue. If you're experiencing significant G, you're not in a spin; you're probably in a spiral dive. Tedd McHenry tedd(at)idacom.hp.com Edmonton, Canada > > With all this talk of spins I've been visualizing some of the comments and > have a question for someone who has experienced a spin in the RV. How > violent are spins in the rv and how many G's are actually developed during a > spin? Is the loss of altitude really 15000 ft/min? If so, I didn't realize > you are traveling at 180mph in the vertical direction during a spin. > > I'm not confident that I understand what is happening in a spin. From my > understanding the inside wing is stalled producing little or no lift and the > outside wing is not in a stall condition therefore lifting the wing which > gives the rolling motion. Also, the stalled wing is producing a lot of drag > which adds to the spin. Obviously I'm not an aerodynamicist, could someone > throw me some good details. > > > -Steve Day > sday(at)pharmcomp.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jperri(at)interserv.com
Date: Feb 27, 1996
Subject: Lycoming AD
Anyone else that has a Lycoming engine in their RV not real happy with the latest letter from Textron on the oil impeller? Engine is running so so good I just hate to tear it down. JMP ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1996
From: "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov>
Subject: Spin Question
REGARDING Spin Question The spin stuff has been interesting but so far no one has mentioned the principle cause - cross-controlling! Now since there are 400 reviewers of this message let me absolve myself in advance by saying each plane has specific and individual spin characteristics - know them!!! The reason you start the roundy - round in the first place is because you tried to lift one of the wings (i.e. get yourself level). LIFT ALWAYS APPLIES DRAG. So if you are already stalling both wings at the root and now add drag (i.e. lift) to one side, that side is going to be dragged backward and your unwanted turn commences. Think of it this way - when that aileron goes DOWN you are actually pulling the wing (via drag) backward on that side thereby starting a spin in that direction. Since the FAA says most stall/spins occur near or in the pattern I'll use the typical example. You overshoot your base leg too much. So no problem just pull back a little and tighten the turn. So far you are O.K.. you are in COORDINATED flight. (i.e. the ball is in the middle) which means your feet are doing the right thing. But by pulling back you have done some naughty things. You have further (1) lowered your air speed , (2) increased the load factor and (3) increased the angle of attach, all bring you closer to stall. However, being the keen pilot you are you notice the nose just starts to drop a little, so automatically you add a little opposite rudder to get it up, opps!! now the down wing is dropping some more (it is on the inside of the turn and naturally going SLOWER that the high side) Well RAISE that sucker up - NAUGHT!!! As soon as that LOW and SLOW wing feels the EXTRA DRAG....goodnight Irene. Elon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com>
Date: Feb 27, 1996
Subject: IFR Chart Service??
Is anyone aware of an on-line service where I can download approach plates for specific airports. I'd be willing to pay per chart. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 27, 1996
Subject: elevator cracking, data needed....
OK, so the elevators are cracking. Caused by dat ol' debbil vibration, right? Does it happen to -6's at the same rate as-4's? Do CS planes have a higher frequency of cracks? Or do wood prop planes have more? Do the .020 skins crack too? Maybe a database would be in order, and I don't think Van's tracks such things. Remember, a c/s prop weighs a LOT! A small out-of-balance condition would seem to cause a more noticable airframe vibration in such an application. How many of the cracking planes had their props dynamically balanced? How many had new props, vs. rebuilt units? Seems there are a lot more factors than many of us may consider causing the cracks, which may be a symptom, as opposed to a problem... Stand behind your a/c while a qualified person starts the engine, and shuts it down. Have you ever seen a tail shake that much? Pretty scary... Could this be the cause? My -4 cracked right away, near the inner two stiffeners, at the trailing edge. These cracks traveled no further than 1/2" in 500+ hrs. Tha a/c was equipped with one of those cut-down props for about 400 hr., and changed to a Aymar-Demuth after that. Less vibration was evident after the switch. I'm building a Rocket now, and haven't incorporated John's trailing edge mod, although I did use .020 for the skins, simply for cosmetic reasons. I simply connected the stiffeners with a blob of gutter sealant, as I thought all cracking occured at the trailing edge. I could be wrong, as now I read about cracks near the spar. Also consider, the 6 cyl Lyc runs so much smoother than the 4 banger, it can't be believed. This alone should lessen the possibility of cracking, I think. I'll let ya know after 100 hr or so. If its prop induced vibration, I'm sunk. 80" dia., 7" chord near the tip! This thing probably puts out a bit more vibe than the std. RV prop. As for a fix for where the stiffeners are near the spar, how about a strip of .032 wide enough to catch the spar rivets and the first rivet on each stiffener? K.I.S.S. Check Six! Mark mlfred(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1996
From: Bob Kutschke <73244.1501(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Frey fuselage jig costs
Current prices for Frey jigs are: RV-6/6A $150/month (6 month min.) $1350 normal purchase price $1150 Sun 'n Fun special purchase price (2/1/96 thru 6/15/96) Looks like a great jig, but too rich for my blood, I'm going the wood route. Someone recommended to me (don't recall if it was from the list) that using 2 pieces of 3/4" plywood cut and bonded together would make very straight and strong cross beams on a wood jig. Sounds good to me, that's what I will be using. Bob Kutschke 73244.1501(at)compuserve.com > Bob Busick wrote: > >I may have missed it but how do you contact Frey to get a metal jig and >does any one know how much he wants to rent it. I have another RV-6 friend >in town and he needs a jig now!! If anyone has a wood jig for sale in the >Southwest let me know. We live in Las Cruces NM. > >Bob Busick >RV-6 >rbusick(at)nmsu.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1996
From: finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen )
Subject: Re: Fixing Flap Hinge
How about a slightly undersize pin? Just like in the cowling. Probably need to be of stronger material than the original pin. Finn You wrote: > >I forgot to put the hinge pin in the hinge while I was riveting one of my flaps >and it really does make a difference. The pin is quite hard to push in and I do >not want to drill out all the rivets. >Has anyone figured out a way to straighten out the hinge to make the pin go in >easier after it has been riveted on the flap. I know about cutting the pin in >half and removing some of the hinge in the center, but I prefer to leave it the >way it is and straighten it as best I can. > > >Thanks > >Mike Casmey >Mpls, MN RV-4 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1996
From: Bob Kutschke <73244.1501(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Engine choices
I'd like to know what thoughts are floating around out here about engine choices for RVs. I have just ordered my fuselage kit (6A), and am know setting about the process of deciding on those "important" pieces for this project. My number one concern, of course, is safety and reliability. With that said my next concern is cost. My first choice is a Lycoming for all he obvious reasons: proven reliability in RVs, other builders' support in the installation, etc. But, looking at the price tag of a new O-320 or O-360, I'm keeping my mind open to some other choices. Auto engine conversions seem to be gaining momentum. Does anyone here have any experience or opinions on any specific conversions? I have contacted NSI about their RV6 firewall forward package which should be available in the fall. They're sending info, so I don't know any details or prices yet. A used Lycoming may be a more affordable solution, but I really don't like not knowing what a used engine may have been through before I get it. I don't have much "engine" experience, so I don't know if I would be able to judge a good used engine from a bad one. Anybody got any helpful hints? Finally, a brand new Lycoming sure would be nice. I'd like to hear from anyone who has purchased directly from Van's. How was the support from Van's for the installation? Would you do it again? How does Van's prices compare to other Lycoming sources? Ok, so I've got a few questions. Bob Kutschke 73244.1501(at)compuserve.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "E. Amadio" <e_amadio(at)vaxxine.com>
Subject: SCANNING
Date: Feb 27, 1996
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB0568.4351E9C0 Can anyone out there scan in the drawings Van supplies for working out colour schemes? It would be a great help for those of us who don't have access to a scanner. Thanks in advance. Ernie Amadio Cessna 170-B Shop coming together for RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1996
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com>
Subject: Re: Firewall construction
On 27 Feb 1996, Bob Kutschke wrote: > Has anyone tried the BAC firewall kit offered through Van's? It is similar to > the wing fast build kit with all firewall components cut, drilled, and anodized > ready to be rivetted together. BAC is saying it should cut about 40-50 hours > out of construction. So, it will probably save me 60-70 hours. The kit is $525, > which works out to around $8-9/hr for this builder. My builder's log shows that I spend approximately 27 hours on my firewall. The thing that helped me the most was the Orndorff fuselage construction video. You get to see how all the parts really go together. There really is not that much fabrication to do. All the little triangular parts are already pre-formed. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB fuselage in the jig ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: elevator redesign??
> Has anybody had success with the spray in foam? Somebody suggested this >as a fix some time ago. > > Chris Chris: I've seen this on some RV's. There is some concern about the foam absorbing moisture and also so talk about corrosion. Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Zilik(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 28, 1996
Subject: Re: Stall Warning Device
>>I was talking to Simon Pike from Temora this morning and he has a drawing >>for the switch installation he used in his two RV6's. He is going to Fax me >>a copy tomorrow (27th), if you give me your Snail mail or Fax number I'll >>send it too you. Depending on the quality I can scan it for anyone else who >>is interested. >>John Morrissey >>RV4 under construction > > Please send me a copy too!!! Gary Zilik RV-6A 22993 FAX: 303-771-1646 E-Mail: zilik(at)aol.com Snail Mail: 13342 Omaha St. Pine, CO 80470 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OrndorffG(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 28, 1996
Subject: Re: Engine choices
Bob, The engines from Vans or the best buy on the market you will not be able to find a factory new engine at a better price. As for support on installation they give the same as for the rest of the kit but the job is still up to you. Between some book available from the EAA a our videos you should be able to do a good dependable installation of the engine.......George Orndorff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OrndorffG(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 28, 1996
Subject: Re: Firewall construction
Bob if you follow the way Becki and I show in the fuselege video you should be able to build your firewall in a couple of evenings , know big deal people do it all the time. ....George Orndorff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1996
From: "Johnson, Steve" <spjohnson(at)msmail.mmmg.com>
Subject: Lycoming AD
>Anyone else that has a Lycoming engine in their RV not real happy with the >latest letter from Textron on the oil impeller? Engine is running so so good I >just hate to tear it down. >JMP Well, I had a Citabria 7ECA which I bought new in 1973 - had it until 1992. During that time there 2 AD notices on the engine, both on the oil impeller. First of all, I wonder if they have it right this time, and second, I wonder what the consequences would be on an experimental aircraft of just letting it go. Steve Johnson Waiting on the RV-8 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1996
From: "Gene Gottschalk (286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: SCANNING
Ernie, Tell me more. I have a scanner. What format would you like? What program do you intend to use? -Gene >Can anyone out there scan in the drawings Van supplies for working out colour schemes? > >It would be a great help for those of us who don't have access to a scanner. > >Thanks in advance. > > >Ernie Amadio > >Cessna 170-B >Shop coming together for RV-6 > >Attachment Converted: C:\EUDORA\RERV-Li8 > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Feb 28, 1996
Subject: Re: elevator cracking, data needed....
>OK, so the elevators are cracking. Caused by dat ol' debbil vibration, right? >Does it happen to -6's at the same rate as-4's? Do CS planes have a higher >frequency of cracks? Or do wood prop planes have more? Do the .020 skins >crack too? Maybe a database would be in order, and I don't think Van's tracks >such things. >Remember, a c/s prop weighs a LOT! A small out-of-balance condition would >seem to cause a more noticable airframe vibration in such an application. How >many of the cracking planes had their props dynamically balanced? How many >had new props, vs. rebuilt units? >Seems there are a lot more factors than many of us may consider causing the >cracks, which may be a symptom, as opposed to a problem... >Stand behind your a/c while a qualified person starts the engine, and shuts >it down. Have you ever seen a tail shake that much? Pretty scary... Could >this be the cause? > >My -4 cracked right away, near the inner two stiffeners, at the trailing >edge. These cracks traveled no further than 1/2" in 500+ hrs. Tha a/c was >equipped with one of those cut-down props for about 400 hr., and changed to a >Aymar-Demuth after that. Less vibration was evident after the switch. >I'm building a Rocket now, and haven't incorporated John's trailing edge mod, >although I did use .020 for the skins, simply for cosmetic reasons. I simply >connected the stiffeners with a blob of gutter sealant, as I thought all >cracking occured at the trailing edge. I could be wrong, as now I read about >cracks near the spar. >Also consider, the 6 cyl Lyc runs so much smoother than the 4 banger, it >can't be believed. This alone should lessen the possibility of cracking, I >think. I'll let ya know after 100 hr or so. If its prop induced vibration, >I'm sunk. 80" dia., 7" chord near the tip! This thing probably puts out a bit >more vibe than the std. RV prop. >As for a fix for where the stiffeners are near the spar, how about a strip of >.032 wide enough to catch the spar rivets and the first rivet on each >stiffener? K.I.S.S. >Check Six! >Mark >mlfred(at)aol.com > Mark: The guess around these parts we think it is prop pulse related. Bill at Van's says it is showing up earlier in high h.p. c/s installations. Not that it doesn't show up in the lower h.p. lumber birds. Look at the stop drills in Van's 4. I plan on building a set of control surfaces with stiffeners extended between the spar and skin.. The back seems to have been resolved with the glob of goo. I had Hartzell balance my prop and it runs smooth for a 4 banger, still got the cracks. So I guess we have to beef up the tail. Plus I'll feel a little better when I yank and bank and the G meter starts going up.:-) Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying(With cracks patched) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com>
Subject: Spin Question
Date: Feb 28, 1996
> The spin stuff has been interesting but so far no one has mentioned the > principle cause - cross-controlling! Now since there are 400 reviewers of > this message let me absolve myself in advance by saying each plane has > specific and individual spin characteristics - know them!!! Good point, Elon. And I would add that incipient spin recognition is more important than skill at recovery because, as you pointed out, the fatal spins often happen when there's insufficient altitude to recover anyway. Before anyone goes ballistic, I don't mean to understate the importance of spin recovery technique, just to state that prevention is better than cure. Tedd McHenry tedd(at)idacom.hp.com Edmonton, Alberta ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Arrowbat(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 28, 1996
Subject: Re: AIR FOIL TEMPLATES/ FUS. JIG
I might be able to help you out with the templates...?? You can email me at Arrowbat(at)aol.com Mike Calhoon RV6 left wing Orlando ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 28, 1996
Subject: Re: Firewall construction
>ready to be rivetted together. BAC is saying it should cut about 40-50 hours >out of construction. So, it will probably save me 60-70 hours. The kit is >$525, >which works out to around $8-9/hr for this builder. > >How long does the firewall normally take, and is it that difficult to form >the >many pieces that make it up? Does this kit sound worthwhile for someone >wanting >to get in the air safely and affordably, yet quickly? > I think BAC is trying to sell firewalls. I spent 17 hours building mine, including priming all the angles, building a simple drill jig, (ala Orndorff) and mounting in the fuse jig. Two other local builders spent 15 and 22 hours respectively. IMHO, the firewall is one of the easiest, most straightforward parts of the airplane. You'll spend a bit of "hmmm time" puzzling out the assembly of the shim pieces, but it isn't really too difficult. I don't have a lot of extra time OR money, but I do have a bit more time. I can find a lot of ways to spend an extra $525. -- Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1996
From: Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Lycoming AD
This is just another chapter in the oil pump story with the Lyc. engines. This has been going on for years. You have about a 50/50 chance that the "new and improved" version will be better than the old. I think Lyc. should make a quick-change oil pump, perhaps one that is held on with Velcro. Here we go again --Chris > > Anyone else that has a Lycoming engine in their RV not real happy with the > latest letter from Textron on the oil impeller? Engine is running so so good I > just hate to tear it down. > > JMP > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1996
From: Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Fixing Flap Hinge
OK, it's time to step back and think about this... Do you really want to fly the plane with a Mickey-moused hinge? Even if it works just fine, the question will be nagging at you for years. I say drill out the hinge and do it right. Hinge is cheap, and it's only a few hours of work. There is no room for "good enough" when it come to airplanes. Chris > > How about a slightly undersize pin? Just like in the cowling. Probably > need to be of stronger material than the original pin. > > Finn > > You wrote: > > > >I forgot to put the hinge pin in the hinge while I was riveting one of > my flaps > >and it really does make a difference. The pin is quite hard to push in > and I do > >not want to drill out all the rivets. > >Has anyone figured out a way to straighten out the hinge to make the > pin go in > >easier after it has been riveted on the flap. I know about cutting the > pin in > >half and removing some of the hinge in the center, but I prefer to > leave it the > >way it is and straighten it as best I can. > > > > > >Thanks > > > >Mike Casmey > >Mpls, MN RV-4 > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1996
From: rbusick(at)nmsu.edu (Robert Busick)
Subject: Re: Engine choices
Bob After much research and soul searching about the same issue, I have determined it really does not make any difference. No matter what engine you get, in the long run it will cost the same. It seems to be a matter of pay now (for new engine) or pay latter (for a used engine) and the prices of most auto engines are very close to the cost of a new lycoming! I have heard of people who have put in $5000 auto engines, but no one tells us the maintenance, modification and converstions that happen between the 100 hours and 2000 hours. Things that seem to work well at 150 hours may not do so at 1100 hours. I have also heard of someone buying a factory new 0-360 remanufactured engine for $1800. There are so many myths about engines, it is hard to seperate the facts from generally held viewpoints that may have no basis in fact. As far as not trusting a used engine, that is a personal risk you have to take. But can you trust a new engine, and how much are you willing to trust an auto engine? I would trust a used engine more that I would trust an auto conversion. After all the lycomings are basically the same as 1932 tractor engines, tough, reliable, lightweight engines with a great performance history that can run for 2000+ hours!. Can the auto engines beat that combination, maybe and maybe not. My experience is that what ever you buy, someone will tell you that he could have gotten a much better deal (they tell you this only after you buy). If you do get a real good deal then people will not beleive you and tell you the engine was way below market value and there must be something seriously wrong with the engine. As for judging a good from a bad used engine, in most cases this can not be done until the entire engine has been torn down. There are indications that you can use, but if the crank is bad or the cam is badly worn you will have a hard time determining this without inspection. My advice: buy exactly what you want and what YOU will be happy with, and don't worrry about what everyone else says. This is your airplane you will fly it and your will have to live with it. Bob Busick RV-6 0-360, fuel injection, electronic ignition, because that is what I want!! >I'd like to know what thoughts are floating around out here about engine >choices for RVs. I have just ordered my fuselage kit (6A), and am know setting >about the process of deciding on those "important" pieces for this project. My >number one concern, of course, is safety and reliability. With that said my >next concern is cost. > >My first choice is a Lycoming for all he obvious reasons: proven reliability in >RVs, other builders' support in the installation, etc. But, looking at the >price tag of a new O-320 or O-360, I'm keeping my mind open to some other >choices. > >Auto engine conversions seem to be gaining momentum. Does anyone here have any >experience or opinions on any specific conversions? I have contacted NSI about >their RV6 firewall forward package which should be available in the fall. >They're sending info, so I don't know any details or prices yet. > >A used Lycoming may be a more affordable solution, but I really don't like not >knowing what a used engine may have been through before I get it. I don't have >much "engine" experience, so I don't know if I would be able to judge a good >used engine from a bad one. Anybody got any helpful hints? > >Finally, a brand new Lycoming sure would be nice. I'd like to hear from anyone >who has purchased directly from Van's. How was the support from Van's for the >installation? Would you do it again? How does Van's prices compare to other >Lycoming sources? > >Ok, so I've got a few questions. > >Bob Kutschke >73244.1501(at)compuserve.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1996
From: ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE )
Subject: Re: Engine choices
The price I got from NSI for their "first run" of engines was $20.000 firewall fwd pkg for RV6. No savings here! Ed Cole You wrote: > >I'd like to know what thoughts are floating around out here about engine >choices for RVs. I have just ordered my fuselage kit (6A), and am know setting >about the process of deciding on those "important" pieces for this project. My >number one concern, of course, is safety and reliability. With that said my >next concern is cost. > >My first choice is a Lycoming for all he obvious reasons: proven reliability in >RVs, other builders' support in the installation, etc. But, looking at the >price tag of a new O-320 or O-360, I'm keeping my mind open to some other >choices. > >Auto engine conversions seem to be gaining momentum. Does anyone here have any >experience or opinions on any specific conversions? I have contacted NSI about >their RV6 firewall forward package which should be available in the fall. >They're sending info, so I don't know any details or prices yet. > >A used Lycoming may be a more affordable solution, but I really don't like not >knowing what a used engine may have been through before I get it. I don't have >much "engine" experience, so I don't know if I would be able to judge a good >used engine from a bad one. Anybody got any helpful hints? > >Finally, a brand new Lycoming sure would be nice. I'd like to hear from anyone >who has purchased directly from Van's. How was the support from Van's for the >installation? Would you do it again? How does Van's prices compare to other >Lycoming sources? > >Ok, so I've got a few questions. > >Bob Kutschke >73244.1501(at)compuserve.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1996
From: COROTEC <70743.2727(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: leaking fuel tank
I finally got around to pressure checking my fuel tanks after having already mounted them to the wings. After sealing everything off I pressurized to 10 inches of water column (about 1/2 psi) and promptly watched the pressure drop like a rock - along with my heart. How could they leak when I had spent so much time and been so careful? I couldn't believe what I was seeing! When I realized that I had forgotten about the fuel caps (!) I took care of that with a custom made plug, repressurized, and waited breathlessly and hopefully..... Well, they still leak... although nowhere near as bad as the first test. If I pressurize to 5 in. w.c. they will leak down about 1 in of w.c. per hour or so. BTW, per Vans these tanks have not been sloshed. I will be removing the tanks in the near future to determine exactly where the #$@&* leaks are. Once this is known, how have those of you who might be as unfortunate as I am sealed them? Can you suck a vaccum on the tank and pull slosh or some other sealant in where the leaks are? Or, did you just go ahead and slosh first to see if that took care of the leaks? What do you think would be the best approach? Any help - as always - would be appreciated. Bruce Stobbe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1996
From: sarg314(at)AZStarNet.com (Tom Sargent)
Subject: IVOprop
I saw an e-mail yesterday claiming that IVOprops were unreliable. I have 2 questions: 1) does any one have any experience with their reliability, 2) if they are reliable, do they perform well on an RV? I can't recall ever seeing an IVOprop on an RV, yet their advertising says they're the biggest selling props. What's the story? __________________________ Tom Sargent, Synergy/Io, Tucson. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Feb 28, 1996
Subject: Re: Spin Question
>> The spin stuff has been interesting but so far no one has mentioned the >> principle cause - cross-controlling! Now since there are 400 reviewers of >> this message let me absolve myself in advance by saying each plane has >> specific and individual spin characteristics - know them!!! > >Good point, Elon. And I would add that incipient spin recognition >is more important than skill at recovery because, as you pointed out, >the fatal spins often happen when there's insufficient altitude to >recover anyway. Before anyone goes ballistic, I don't mean to >understate the importance of spin recovery technique, just to state >that prevention is better than cure. > >Tedd McHenry >tedd(at)idacom.hp.com >Edmonton, Alberta > Tedd: My guess is that more RV's will be spun out of attempted aerobatics than in traditional stall spin accidents. IAC preachs good spin recovery techniques because the more you "play around" the more likely it is that you will fall out of something into a spin. It's no big deal if you recognize whats happening and deal with it. The amazing thing is how many experienced aerobatic pilots screw airplanes into the ground. My RV will just about recover on it's own if you just let go. I like the method IAC preachs....1. power off 2. let go or neutralize controls 3. hard rudder to stop turn (if you can't figure out which way you are turning step on either one, if it works ,great. If it doesn't work, step on the other one and it will) 4. get it right side up 5. power back on in slight descent It's worked for me. I've fallen out of more than one maneuver in my time. Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1996
From: Bob Kutschke <73244.1501(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: BAC firewall package
George, Thanks for the advice. I have decided against the BAC package. Just talked to Van's, and it turns out that they will now be supplying the firewall and components pre-drilled and clecoed together with all 6/6A fuselage kits. So I get to keep my $525 and get a few more of those magical clecoes. BTW: Thanks for those videos. You and Becki have saved me, and I'm sure others, countless hours of confusion and dismay. I just got the fuselage tapes and can't wait to watch them. Bob Kutschke 73244.1501(at)compuserve.com >>Message ID: 321-71242 >>Date: 2/28/96 9:46 AM >>From: INTERNET:OrndorffG(at)aol.com >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Firewall construction >> >>Bob if you follow the way Becki and I show in the fuselege video you should >>be able to build your firewall in a couple of evenings , know big deal >>people do it all the time. >>....George Orndorff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1996
From: ward9(at)llnl.gov (Rich Ward)
Subject: Re: leaking fuel tank
>Well, they still leak... although nowhere near as bad as the first test. If I >pressurize to 5 in. w.c. they will leak down about 1 in of w.c. per hour or so. You probably know this but just in case you don't, this version of a water manometer is also a very sensitive thermometer. I remember when I did this I opened my garage door in the moring and let in a bunch of cold air in and the water level dropped an inch in a few minutes. > >I will be removing the tanks in the near future to determine exactly where the Before pulling the tank off, try putting a soap solution on the access covers. Very slow leaks, even an inch/hour are detectable. The screws are the next candidate after the fuel caps. I found a couple screws that leaked on mine. I tightened them a half turn and they stopped. I also gobbed a little pro seal around them for a little more peace of mind. - Rich RV4 PS I just finished building the RMI micro encoder; it's as good as everybody reports. The kit and the instrument itself are top notch!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1996
From: JIM SCHMIDT <JIM.SCHMIDT(at)mail.mei.com>
Subject: leaking fuel tank -Reply
Bruce I had the same responce with my tanks. I found two areas where you think you have them sealed and they really are difficult to seal properly. One is the fuel caps. On the first tank I used a test ball- plumbing device and it seemed to work fine. On the other tank I could not get a tight seal with that and ended up streatching a balloon over the fuel cap and retesting. It took several tries before this worked. So be sure your test plug is indeed tight. Mine would leak and still show no bubbles when sprayed with soap. Secondly I had tie wraped a plastic tube for a manomanter on the fuel input fitting. Again it is very easy to get such small leak in this area without it creating a soap bubble.Make really sure you have not introducing any leaks in the temporary setup for testing. All my problems where self induced. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1996
Subject: Lycoming AD
From: eilts(at)ti.com
What I received was a owner advisory that "Mandatory Service Bulletin No. 524" has been issued for a large set (4 pages of types and serial numbers) of Lycomming engines. Mandatory service bulletins do not carry the same legalities as ADs, although sometimes the FAA may issue an AD as a result of the same problems that resulted in the service bulletin. Compliance with MSBs is not required by the Feds, although it may be required by prudence. Hank Eilts eilts(at)ti.com About to start on an RV-6 > >Anyone else that has a Lycoming engine in their RV not real happy with the > >latest letter from Textron on the oil impeller? Engine is running so so good > I > >just hate to tear it down. > > >JMP > > Well, I had a Citabria 7ECA which I bought new in 1973 - had it until 1992. > During that time there 2 AD notices on the engine, both on the oil impeller. > First of all, I wonder if they have it right this time, and second, I wonder > what the consequences would be on an experimental aircraft of just letting it > go. > > Steve Johnson > > Waiting on the RV-8 > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1996
From: sburch(at)Infi.Net (stan burchett)
Subject: In Hampton Roads VA..RV RENTAL or PARTNERSHIP wanted
Former Mooney owner (preparing to build RV) will rent or partner with RV owner.. any model. Contact email or 804-867-7244 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DerFlieger(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 28, 1996
Subject: Re: Lycoming AD
msmail.mmmg.com!spjohnson(at)matronics.com (Johnson, Steve) writes: >Well, I had a Citabria 7ECA which I bought new in 1973 - had it until 1992. >During that time there 2 AD notices on the engine, both on the oil impeller. >First of all, I wonder if they have it right this time, and second, I wonder >what the consequences would be on an experimental aircraft of just letting it >go. > > I hate to jump in here, but I must. The consequences could be many. Obviously an owner of an Experimental aircraft can ignore any or all service bulletins, advisories, AD's or whatever, and be legal. First of all lets get the terminology right. This is NOT an AD, at least yet... it is an OWNER ADVISORY issued by Lycoming. AD's are REGULATORY and issued by a governmental authority. In case of an accident related to the issue, I feel quite sure the legal ramificatation would be similar. Except that the FAA could come after you too, in case it was an AD that was not accomplished. Nevertheless, to ignore a known documented problem seems a bit of a stretch of our Experimental Aircraft "rights". Don't do it! Jim Stugart DerFlieger(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1996
From: "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM>
Subject: Re: Frey fuselage jig costs
> Someone recommended to me (don't recall if it was from the list) > that using 2 pieces of 3/4" plywood cut and bonded together would > make very straight and strong cross beams on a wood jig. Sounds good to > me, that's what I will be using. I think it was from the list. I would add that one ought to buy or rent a Planer/Jointer if you REALLY wanna get into precise, flat, straight surfaces and right angles. Anyone consider the possible uses of one of those laser pointers as an alignment device? -- "Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!" -- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs "Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1996
From: "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM>
Subject: Re: BAC firewall package
> Thanks for the advice. I have decided against the BAC package. Just > talked to Van's, and it turns out that they will now be supplying > the firewall and components pre-drilled and clecoed together with > all 6/6A fuselage kits. So I get to keep my $525 and get a few more > of those magical clecoes. Gad! Pre-drilled gear legs, wing and empennage skins, clecoed firewalls. Is there going to be anything left for me to do when I'm finally ready to start on mine? (Personally, after all the horror stories I've read, the only thing I'd be holding out for is for all the CAD work to be done and new plans with no contradictory or missing measurements to be printed out.) -- "Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!" -- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs "Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pmbs(at)probe.att.com (Paul M Bilodeau +1 +1 908 957 6611)
Date: Feb 28, 1996
Original-Cc: probe!pmbs
Subject: Fast Build Options.....
Anyone encountered any static from your inspectors about the 51% rule regarding the use of "fast build" options?? - More Complete/Finished/Worksaving Kits from Van's - Spar Kit - Wing Kit - Firewall Kit - Prebuilt Panels, Seats, Miscellaneous Upholstery Don't get me wrong as I am not against anyone using one or all of these options.....I might choose to also depending on how much fun I have building the empennage kit. One person's words, in essence, How much is your time worth and how much education do you want to get in building your plane?? My only concern is that if I were to use these one/more of the available kits and get an aircraft completed (earlier than if I had not), might I run up against trouble in having it certified in the experimental aircraft?? Paul Bilodeau pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com 908-957-6611 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: IVOprop
> I saw an e-mail yesterday claiming that IVOprops were unreliable. >I have 2 questions: 1) does any one have any experience with their >reliability, 2) if they are reliable, do they perform well on an RV? I >can't recall ever seeing an IVOprop on an RV, yet their advertising says >they're the biggest selling props. What's the story? >__________________________ >Tom Sargent, Synergy/Io, Tucson. Tom, what I know is second hand but here it is any way. I wanted an IVOprop, asked around quite a bit. Only found one that had had one. He got rid of it primarily because he said he could not get it to perform in climb or cruise. The secondary reason he quoted was that the hub would not fit under an RV spinner. He was attempting the 3 blader. Don't know the reliability of this, except it is what I was told by the man that said he had it. I'm like you, don't know that I've ever seen one installed. I once saw a very nice looking black 3 blader that the hub did fit under the spinner, but don't know what it was. JOhn D > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Engine choices
> My experience is that what ever you buy, someone will tell you that >he could have gotten a much better deal (they tell you this only after you >buy). If you do get a real good deal then people will not beleive you and >tell you the engine was way below market value and there must be something >seriously wrong with the engine. > > As for judging a good from a bad used engine, in most cases this >can not be done until the entire engine has been torn down. There are >indications that you can use, but if the crank is bad or the cam is badly >worn you will have a hard time determining this without inspection. > > My advice: buy exactly what you want and what YOU will be happy >with, and don't worrry about what everyone else says. This is your >airplane you will fly it and your will have to live with it. > >Bob Busick >RV-6 Bob, I sure agree with your advice on this. I'm sure all of us have read in Sport Aviation and KitPlanes about the new, revolutionary, cheap, ultra low priced engine that someone is bringing out as an auto conversion or new design that is passing all of the test and will be available in just a few months when the final bugs are worked out. Then as the years go by, we never see anything else about them, as if they fell off the edge of the world. Don't get me wrong, it's not that the 'new' engine must prove itself for 50 years before it's accepted, but it should have some proven record for me. I just don't know that much to do all of that modifying, and I've worked on engines since I was 8 years old. But if that's a builders thing, press on. If it weren't for people that like that sort of thing, we would still be riding on horses, and they don't roll or loop too well. John D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Fixing Flap Hinge
>> How about a slightly undersize pin? Just like in the cowling. Probably >> need to be of stronger material than the original pin. >> Finn >> >I forgot to put the hinge pin in the hinge while I was riveting one of >> my flaps >> >and it really does make a difference. The pin is quite hard to push in >> and I do >> >not want to drill out all the rivets. >> >Has anyone figured out a way to straighten out the hinge to make the >> pin go in >> >easier after it has been riveted on the flap. I know about cutting the >> pin in >> >half and removing some of the hinge in the center, but I prefer to >> leave it the >> >way it is and straighten it as best I can. >> >Mike Casmey >> >Mpls, MN RV-4 Mike, one other thing you might try that worked for me. Since the pin WILL go in. Take one of your swedish files and file a couple of groves at the end of the pin. Sorta like a drill bit. Didn't take but about 1/8 inch of it. Then work the pin in and out with a drill. In effect you are drilling out the rough portion of the hinge. It, and lapping compound, left the fit firm, not loose. Afterwards, I could, with a few choosen words and some grease, get the pin in without a drill. It may be worth a try before all of that drilling out of rivets, and the always occasionally wallowed out holes that result. Now, if the hinge is wavy until it looks like the surf is up, the drilling out may be the way to go. As they say in blackjack, it's dealers choice and you've got the deck. Either way you decide, have fun. John D RV6 completed PS Even after all of this that I did, I still split the pin as per Vans suggestion. His came out just as I was completing this work, and it made since to me in case it may get in there and not want to come out. Some parts seem to have a mind of their own in this regards. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: leaking fuel tank
>I will be removing the tanks in the near future to determine exactly where the >#$@&* leaks are. Once this is known, how have those of you who might be as >unfortunate as I am sealed them? Can you suck a vaccum on the tank and pull >slosh or some other sealant in where the leaks are? Or, did you just go ahead >and slosh first to see if that took care of the leaks? What do you think would >be the best approach? >Any help - as always - would be appreciated. >Bruce Stobbe > Bruce, In construction test, my leaks were in the access plates and the screws that held them on. Well, the caps leaked around the through pin, requiring that I had to install different o-rings plus a shim to get them to compress right. But you have removed that by your plugs. The screw heads were fixed by backing them out, putting a little proseal under the head and screwing them back tight. After about 30-40 hours, the left tank developed a leak. It was removed and, here I'm lucky, I used the balloon method for press. and used my cattle watering tank to look for the leak, like you would with an intertube.(my wife said I was too messy to use the bathtub) The cows became very curious, but I didn't let them help, wanted the fun myself. The leak was on the outboard end rib, underneath, about 3 inchs from the leading edge. Some sanding with paper, cleaning with a toothbrush and naptha, I then sort of globbed some proseal (on the outside) in the spot and smoothed in each direction. It's been almost 18 months and no further leaks. Don't know what I would have done if it had been a surface rivet. Bob Brashear says some have had to cut access holes in the rear bulkhead to get inside and redo-much work. John D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Micro Encoder
>PS I just finished building the RMI micro encoder; it's as good as >everybody reports. The kit and the instrument itself are top notch!!! > RMI micro encoder? Whats dat?> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Firewall construction
>>How long does the firewall normally take, and is it that difficult to form >>many pieces that make it up? Does this kit sound worthwhile for someone >>wanting >>to get in the air safely and affordably, yet quickly? >IMHO, the firewall is one of the easiest, most straightforward parts of the >airplane. You'll spend a bit of "hmmm time" puzzling out the assembly of the >shim pieces, but it isn't really too difficult. >I don't have a lot of extra time OR money, but I do have a bit more time. I >can find a lot of ways to spend an extra $525. >-- Ed Bundy I agree with Ed. Of course, I'm conservative (well, my wife says I'm cheap). I saw no unusual difficulty with the firewall, certainly not as much time for construction as some other more taxing jobs. I too had a time consideration-get the plane done soon enought to fly it before I went out with old age, but It never occured to me to get someone else to do most of the work for me. Still, it's an individuals choice, that's the fun of it! John D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 28, 1996
Subject: Re: Engine choices
>Auto engine conversions seem to be gaining momentum. Does anyone here have >any >experience or opinions on any specific conversions? I have contacted NSI >about >their RV6 firewall forward package which should be available in the fall. >They're sending info, so I don't know any details or prices yet. I too was very interested in NSI. I called them about a year and a half ago when they first started talking about a 160hp engine. At that time they told me it would be ready in "about 6 months". 6 months later the date was "about 6 months". 6 months later.... Well, you get the picture. It just doesn't seem to be happening. The 100hp one has been used very successfully in a lot of things, but they seem to be having a lot of trouble with the bigger stuff. Trouble is something I don't need. I need to order my engine in the next couple of months, and I'm going to mortgage the wife and by one from Van's. You can't get a new one anywhere else for less. -- Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au>
Subject: SCANNING
Ernie, I have scanned it. What picture format would you like? Royce Craven Melbourne Australia >Can anyone out there scan in the drawings Van supplies for working out colour schemes? > >It would be a great help for those of us who don't have access to a scanner. > >Thanks in advance. > > >Ernie Amadio > >Cessna 170-B >Shop coming together for RV-6 > >Attachment Converted: I:\DOWNLOAD\RERV-Li1 > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvbildr(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 29, 1996
Subject: Re: Fuselage Jig
Does anyone in the S.E. US have a good straight RV-6 fuselage jig for sale? I'd like to purchase one soon as I just finished my wings. Thanks. rvbildr(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Bennett" <bennett(at)healey.com.au>
Date: Feb 29, 1996
Subject: Re: IVOprop
Van said it all in a recent RVator. Peter Bennett Sydney Australia RV6 skinning fuselage > I saw an e-mail yesterday claiming that IVOprops were unreliable. > I have 2 questions: 1) does any one have any experience with their > reliability, 2) if they are reliable, do they perform well on an RV? I > can't recall ever seeing an IVOprop on an RV, yet their advertising says > they're the biggest selling props. What's the story? > __________________________ > Tom Sargent, Synergy/Io, Tucson. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: Becki Orndorff <rso(at)css.ncifcrf.gov>
Subject: Re: IVOprop
Tom, A friend had an IVO on his RV4 - three bladed thing, really sexy. However, it developed cracks in the blades within 20-30 hours. He took it off and replaced it with a metal prop. I've heard a lot of other horror stories about the IVO's and the factory keeps saying there is no problem. There was an article about the IVO props in the latest RVator. Becki Orndorff > I saw an e-mail yesterday claiming that IVOprops were unreliable. >I have 2 questions: 1) does any one have any experience with their >reliability, 2) if they are reliable, do they perform well on an RV? I >can't recall ever seeing an IVOprop on an RV, yet their advertising says >they're the biggest selling props. What's the story? >__________________________ >Tom Sargent, Synergy/Io, Tucson. > > Becki Orndorff NCI-FCRDC, Computer & Statistical Services ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: Graham Taylor <gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Micro Encoder
On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, John Darby wrote: > RMI micro encoder? Whats dat?> > A 3 1/8" instrument, which is an altimeter (inches or Millibars). Vertical Speed Indicator, Airspeed indicator (knots, or mph), and an encoder to interface with your transponder. Also it can eb programmed to give warnings for Vne, Vs, closing on or deviating from an assigned altitude (great for IFR training). It also is an Outside Air temp, and gives TAS, pressure altitude, density altitude. It doesn't make a cup of coffer though. Tough !! Get the brochure, you'll be very impressed, and you'l save $ over buying separate instruments, and have panel space to spare. Van put one in the RV-8, and if he's happy with it, I guess most of us would be too. Graham Taylor gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au 119 Darley Circle, Bullcreek, WA 6149, AUSTRALIA Phone (619) 332 4094 Fax (619) 310 6048 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: NMARSHAL(at)auto.rockwell.com
Date: Feb 29, 1996
Subject: SCANNING
Please could you send me a copy (in BMP format?) Thank you Nigel Marshall Chevreuse, France RV-4 (# 4062) Empennage nmarshal(at)aopari.remnet.rockwell.com ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: RV-List: SCANNING Date: 29/02/96 22:32 Ernie, I have scanned it. What picture format would you like? Royce Craven Melbourne Australia >Can anyone out there scan in the drawings Van supplies for working out colour schemes? > >It would be a great help for those of us who don't have access to a scanner. > >Thanks in advance. > > >Ernie Amadio > >Cessna 170-B >Shop coming together for RV-6 > >Attachment Converted: I:\DOWNLOAD\RERV-Li1 > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough)
Subject: Re: SCANNING
I have the images in Adobe Illustrator format (Postscript) for the MAC that I'd be happy to upload if someone can use them or convert them for PC use. Ken (RV6A) -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Magic Online Services Toronto Inc. (416) 591-6490 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dick McNaney <dmcnane@huachuca-sec1.army.mil>
rv-list
Subject: Re: Lycoming AD
Date: Feb 29, 1996
I got the service bulletin from Lycoming. BUT the guy in the hanger next to me got the AD from NTSB, DOT or FAA, I forget. The bad part I have (from the logbook at last rebuild) allows me to go 2000 hours or til next rebuild. Another bad part listed which I don't appear to have requires replacement within 25 hours. This is for a IO360A1A. Dick McNaney (just lurking w my Mooney) ---------- From: owner-rv-list Subject: Re: RV-List: Lycoming AD Date: Wednesday, February 28, 1996 7:07PM msmail.mmmg.com!spjohnson(at)matronics.com (Johnson, Steve) writes: >Well, I had a Citabria 7ECA which I bought new in 1973 - had it until 1992. >During that time there 2 AD notices on the engine, both on the oil impeller. >First of all, I wonder if they have it right this time, and second, I wonder >what the consequences would be on an experimental aircraft of just letting it >go. > > I hate to jump in here, but I must. The consequences could be many. Obviously an owner of an Experimental aircraft can ignore any or all service bulletins, advisories, AD's or whatever, and be legal. First of all lets get the terminology right. This is NOT an AD, at least yet... it is an OWNER ADVISORY issued by Lycoming. AD's are REGULATORY and issued by a governmental authority. In case of an accident related to the issue, I feel quite sure the legal ramificatation would be similar. Except that the FAA could come after you too, in case it was an AD that was not accomplished. Nevertheless, to ignore a known documented problem seems a bit of a stretch of our Experimental Aircraft "rights". Don't do it! Jim Stugart DerFlieger(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com>
Subject: Re: SCANNING
Ken: You said: > I have the images in Adobe Illustrator format (Postscript) for the MAC that > I'd be happy to upload if someone can use them or convert them for PC use. I have both a Mac and a PC. If you send it to me, I can convert it to just about anything anybody wants. If you want to upload it to me at work at ftp.viacrypt.com/pub/incoming, I'll take it from there. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB Fuselage in jig ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com>
Subject: Re: leaking fuel tank
On 28 Feb 1996, COROTEC wrote: > I will be removing the tanks in the near future to determine exactly where the > #$@&* leaks are. Once this is known, how have those of you who might be as > unfortunate as I am sealed them? Can you suck a vaccum on the tank and pull > slosh or some other sealant in where the leaks are? Or, did you just go ahead > and slosh first to see if that took care of the leaks? What do you think would > be the best approach? The technique of applying slosh to the OUTSIDE of the tank where it leaks and sucking it in with vaccum is one that has been used by the Mooney crowd for years. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Engine choices
n. If it weren't for people that like that sort of thing, we would >still be riding on horses, and they don't roll or loop too well. >John D John D: You must not have ever chased an old cow down a hill and had one of those "fugitives from a glue factory" step in a hole. I'm here to tell ya, horses can loop and roll just fine. That's why no amount of money (well, maybe a new Lycoming) could get me on one of those hay-burners ever again:) It's much more fun to build RV's. Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: ward9(at)llnl.gov (Rich Ward)
Subject: Re: Micro Encoder
>>PS I just finished building the RMI micro encoder; it's as good as >>everybody reports. The kit and the instrument itself are top notch!!! >> >RMI micro encoder? Whats dat?> The microEncoder is a mode C altitude encoder with a host of additional features including IAS,TAS, airspeed trend, MSL altitude, pressure altitude, density altitude, mode C altitude, vertical speed indicator, outside air temperature, programmable altitude alerts, and alarms for Vne, Vno, Gear, Flap, high stall, low stall. All this in a 3 1/4" display. In addition, every parameter imaginable is programmable from the from panel. The kit cost is $849.00 and the assembled version is $1149.00. RMI = Rocky Mountain Instrument 307-864-9300. Give them a call and they will send you all the information. They typically have ads in the back of "Sport Aviation" Rich, RV4 You know, almost every time I type RV4 I accidently type RV$ by failing to let up on the shift key - I wonder if this is some type of subliminal message...? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: Scott.Fink(at)Microchip.COM (Scott Fink)
Subject: Lycoming AD
Because of this AD I will never complain about them again. My Cherokee hit TBO so I was required to comply with the pump inspection, I grumbled and complained untill I got the oil pump open. I had scintered iron impellers and the keyway on the drive gear was worn to about 3/8" or so (from ~1/8") and the key itself had a knife edge. The pump could have failed at any minute, or it may have lasted another 200 hrs, hard to tell, but it WAS going to fail. This AD saved me at LEAST a very expensive engine replacement (not much useable once the bearings weld themselves to the crank), and probably an off-airport landing (I don't even want to think about what that could cost, possibly everything). I still have the gear, shaft and key, anybody in the PHX area is welcome to come over and take a look. I agree that Lyc. should have done a whole bunch of things better, but I would comply with this one! Scott Fink RV6 HS complete, working on VS ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: RV-List: Lycoming AD Date: 2/28/96 8:26 AM This is just another chapter in the oil pump story with the Lyc. engines. This has been going on for years. You have about a 50/50 chance that the "new and improved" version will be better than the old. I think Lyc. should make a quick-change oil pump, perhaps one that is held on with Velcro. Here we go again --Chris > > Anyone else that has a Lycoming engine in their RV not real happy with the > latest letter from Textron on the oil impeller? Engine is running so so good I > just hate to tear it down. > > JMP > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: Phil Arter <arter(at)acd.ucar.edu>
Subject: Engine Choices
This is what I found out when looking for an engine. Prices (US$) based on the latest Van's catalog and most recent info from Lycoming: Van's Lycoming new exch* factory reman* factory oh* new outright O-320 D1A 17,350 29,141 23,341 18,202 12,595 O-360 A1A 18,900 31,918 25,918 19,060 12,966 IO-360 A1A N/A 39,089 32,389 24,076 16,660 * requires exchange of a useable core (with good crankshaft and crankcase). All factory engines have new nitrided cylinders, not chrome. I found that a used O-360 engine will cost anywhere from 5,000 to 11,000 depending on the time SMOH. To overhaul an engine, count on spending $4,000 or more for parts and another 1,200 to 2,000 for labor. There is of course some risk in flying a used engine without overhauling it. Even if the prop flange isn't bent, no one can tell what's inside without a complete teardown and inspection. It wouldn't be on the market unless something, probably bad, happened to the airframe it was attached to. Read the logbooks carefully and get and A&P or your local overhaul shop to look it over for you. My personal opinion: I think the best approach is to get aquainted with the people at a reputable overhaul shop and have them keep an eye out for a good overhaul-able engine for you. There is no reason a good overhauled engine can't be just as good as a new one. But it won't be a whole lot cheaper than Van's prices. I'm pretty sure the factory is still the only agency that can remanufacture an engine and give it a new logbook with 0 hours. Call Lycoming at (717) 327-7278 and ask for a "Data Pak" that contains a conplete list of engine models and prices, and includes a lot of useful information. Please don't everyone call at once and tell them you heard it from me. Phil arter(at)acd.ucar.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov>
Subject: Full Tank Sucking
REGARDING Full Tank Sucking Be very careful about pulling a vacuum on the tank. You will be AMAZED (and heartbroken) at how very little negative pressure is needed to CRUSH your tank! -Elon >> >>******From DODO head***** thought ya might want to read this ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com>
Date: Feb 29, 1996
Subject: Re: Fast Build Options.....
> Anyone encountered any static from your inspectors about the 51% rule > regarding the use of "fast build" options?? > This has not proven to be a problem with RV's. There's plenty of work to do even with the 'fast build' kits. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 29, 1996
Subject: Removable panel?
Has anyone built a slider Rv6 with a removable instrument panel? If so, how? In the Orndorff video George uses screws to attach the panel angle to the top skin, but only along the top (can't get at the screws on the sides once the windshield's in place) Van's says the angle should be attached all the way down to the longerons as the panel is structural. They claim that there's no way to make the panel removable and still structural. Any ideas? It seems to me that the panel isn't that different than on the tip-up version, and that panel isn't supported on the top at all. Another question: what type of caps are people using to cover the control sticks and for attaching PTT's? Electric box knock-out plugs aren't the right size... :) Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GH.LOMOTH(at)resonet.com
Date: - - - , 20-
action Relayed action Relayed
Subject: Problems subscibing
Importance: normal Autoforwarded: FALSE I have tried 3 times to subscibe to the list, each time the majordomo results come back to me as sucseeded but I am not recieving any mail. Gordon Lomoth gh.lomoth(at)resonet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: Ron Caldwell <74504.1365(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: AutoPilots
I'm the group leader of the Salt Lake RV builders group. Several of my members are ready to buy autopilots. They would like to know if anyone has had experience with the NAVAID autopilots. What is installation and actual use like?? Ron Caldwell RV6A Building Empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com>
Subject: OSHKOSH
Is there anyone who would be willing to hanger my RV-4 Aug 5,6,7 near OSHKOSH? I would gladly pay a fee. My wife and I want to attend for the first time but I have no intention of flying in there. I would stay at a motel near my 4 and rent a car. If I can make all the arrangements, hanger/motel/car I'll go, if not I'll try next year. Dan Boudro home (505) 275-3179 office (505) 889-7241 Albuquerque, NM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: "Steve Day" <sday(at)pharmcomp.com>
Subject: Re: Engine choices
I just had to put in my $.02 Some of my best time during this RV project has been the contemplation of which engine to use. My guess is that anyone else interested in an alternative to the lycoming has checked out the Rotaries, DynaCam, Turbine, Diesel, Subaru and various other auto conversions. Every one of these companies have touted how much better their engine choice is and given the advantages as to why, whether it be weight savings, fuel burn, lower cooling drag, lower operating and maintenance costs etc etc.. If I had the money I would probably buy one of each just because it's so neat to fiddle with different technologies. Although I have very seriously considered a rotary (just because I like the design so much), I will probably break down and spend the ungodly amount of money on a lycoming and not worry about all the unknown details associated with putting a different engine in. (some of those 'low-cost' alternatives are very close to the price of a new lycoming from Van's) I'm probably going to go so far as to buy a new lycoming because I don't want to find out $10k+ later that I got a used lemon that was drop kicked and has a TBO of 100hrs. I'm not saying those other engine choices aren't great alternatives, maybe some of them really are far better than a lycoming, but I don't have the time or money to determine whether that is the case. (And I would hate to find out the engines aren't all they are cracked up to be at 1000ft AGL doing a scenic over a nearbly lake) Now for my $.01 analogy. Picture someone saying, "I've got this beautiful piece of property that is real cheap and the owner says the area has a good water table" You spend 5 years of your life building a house and you decide to wait 'till finishing before drilling a well. The day comes where you drill a $3000 dry well, drill another $3000 dry well etc etc. I'm not willing to take the risk on something that I spend 5 years of my life building and have an unexpected engine failure. IMHO But I'd be willing to bet there will be a day when I'm more interested in the experimental engine market than the experimental aircraft market. :-) [the end of my $.02] -Steve Day sday(at)pharmcomp.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: Bob Kutschke <73244.1501(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Fuselage order
Chet, I don't know if they have started shipping with the firewall predrilled yet or not. The person I spoke with (John, I think) said that the details of this new feature would be in the next RVator (soon to be sent out). I would give Van's a call to check how the firewall is currently shipping. Just in case you're still not getting the list, I'll send this note to your direct address also. BTW: How long has your fuselage order taken. They told me 8-10 weeks. I wish it was sooner! Bob Kutschke 73244.1501(at)compuserve.com Chet wrote: >> Bob, just saw your message on the list about the fuse kits being >>shipped with firewall predrilled and clekoed. what is the effective date >>of that option. I'm awaiting shipping of my kit sometime around the 18th >>of March and no one at Vans has mentioned this option. I do know I'm >>paying the new price for the kit. I didn't respond via the list because I >>just changed servers last night and apparently Majordomo hasn't subscribed >>me at my new address, I'm still accessing mail at my old address >> >>Chet Razer >>crazer(at)egyptian.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 29, 1996
Subject: Re: Lycoming AD
>Nevertheless, to ignore a known documented problem seems a bit of a stretch >of our Experimental Aircraft "rights". Don't do it! BUT, is it a REAL problem, or just a way for Lycoming to cover their LEGAL BUTTS? Were the last two REAL problems? How many documented cases of part failures were there? Is this advisory a gut legal reaction like so many others? Lots of questions, but not many answers........ As an experimental engine owner, I think that my approach would be to continue oil analysis and LOOK FOR REAL problems......... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov>
Subject: subliminal-Subliminal messa
REGARDING subliminal... Rick writes: ..."I accidently type RV$ by failing to let up on the shift key - I wonder if this is some type of subliminal message". --------------------- If RV4 = (rv$) then the RV6 = (rv^). The caret signifies exponential costs!!! However, the real winner is the RV8 (rv*) ... its a star!!. -Elon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Terry Williams <terry(at)is.com>
Date: Feb 29, 1996
Subject: Re: IVOprop
As I recall, from a recent thread in this email list, IVOprops = seem to work great with lower power engines (Rotax, VW, etc.), but = seem to be problematic with the higher horsepower (certainly the = O-320/-360). On this email list, Jim Cone was one of the most = vocal about IVO's problems. It seems that some of the props were = throwing blades when used with 150+ HP engines. You might want the = check the email archive. I believe that IVO has admitted that there are problems with some = of their propellers on larger engines. At least I think that I've = read something like that. Anyway, if IVO has sold a lot of = propellors, they have likely been installed on the vast number of = Kitfoxes and Avid's that have been sold in recent years. The = SkyStar (formerly Denney Aircraft) had claimed to have sold more = kits that any other manufacturer a year or two ago. That might = account for the "many IVOprops sold." tw Begin forwarded message: Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 07:17:04 -0500 From: Becki Orndorff <css.ncifcrf.gov!rso(at)matronics.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: IVOprop Tom, A friend had an IVO on his RV4 - three bladed thing, really = sexy. However, it developed cracks in the blades within 20-30 hours. He = took it off and replaced it with a metal prop. I've heard a lot of other = horror stories about the IVO's and the factory keeps saying there is no = problem. There was an article about the IVO props in the latest RVator. Becki Orndorff > I saw an e-mail yesterday claiming that IVOprops were = unreliable.=20 >I have 2 questions: 1) does any one have any experience with = their >reliability, 2) if they are reliable, do they perform well on an = RV? I >can't recall ever seeing an IVOprop on an RV, yet their = advertising says >they're the biggest selling props. What's the story? >__________________________ >Tom Sargent, Synergy/Io, Tucson. > > Becki Orndorff NCI-FCRDC, Computer & Statistical Services ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Fast Build Options.....
> > Anyone encountered any static from your inspectors about the 51% rule > regarding the use of "fast build" options?? I think it wa Van who once told me that the RV kits were something like 20% complete from the factory, leaving the builder with 80% to do themselves. That leaves a LOT of room for fast-build options. Never heard of anyone running into problems with it. Randall Henderson RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com>
Subject: Re: Removable panel?
*** snip **** > Another question: what type of caps are people using to cover the control > sticks and for attaching PTT's? Electric box knock-out plugs aren't the > right size... :) > > Ed Bundy > I bought mine from Cleaveland Aircraft (515) 432-6794 $11 ea. and am quite happy with them. Dan Boudro RV-4 N9167Z ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 29, 1996
Subject: Electrical Wiring
For those of you who have sent me SASE's for electrical system schmatics, they're in the mail, along with a drawing of my basic panel layout, a print on an alternative elevator trim cable, and a neat compass card holder print. Hope they help.... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: John Hovan <hovan(at)apple.com>
Subject: Re: Removable panel?
Hi All, Seth Hancock, who is a machinist in the Austin area, is offering a removable instrument panel for approximately $35. I have photos for the web page that I haven't got around to publishing. If you are interested in a beautifully computer milled instrument sub-panel, please give Seth a call at (512) 930-9059. I can personally vouch for Seth's work. He is one of a handful of builders in the Austin area that build "perfect" airplanes. I compare everything I do with his work. Needless to say, the gap is quite large at this point. enjoy, John Hovan aol.com!EBundy2620(at)matronics.com wrote: > > Has anyone built a slider Rv6 with a removable instrument panel? If so, how? > In the Orndorff video George uses screws to attach the panel angle to the > top skin, but only along the top (can't get at the screws on the sides once > the windshield's in place) Van's says the angle should be attached all the > way down to the longerons as the panel is structural. They claim that > there's no way to make the panel removable and still structural. Any ideas? > It seems to me that the panel isn't that different than on the tip-up > version, and that panel isn't supported on the top at all. > > Another question: what type of caps are people using to cover the control > sticks and for attaching PTT's? Electric box knock-out plugs aren't the > right size... :) > > Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: "A. Reichert" <reichera(at)clark.net>
Subject: VIRUSES-- Blah Blah Blah...
This hoax will never die, will it? True to form, it pops up about every 2-3 months. - Alan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
Subject: Lycoming AD (fwd)
Date: Feb 28, 1996
If you have the Steel drive gear and AL driven gear then you don't have to do anything till the next OH. I don't recall what they required if you have the Sintered Iron impellers. They are bad news. The old AD on these was to replace them by 2,000 hrs (I think). I had the Steel/AL gears so I did not pay much attention to this part. You need to find out what type of gears are in your oil pump. If you have an engine model and SN, you should be able to contact Lyc and see how it was built (assuming it has not been overhauled). Also, some of the older AD's listed the affected engine serial numbers. I have all that stuff at home and can look it up if needed. Also, is this a Mandatory Service Bulletin or an AD? > > Anyone else that has a Lycoming engine in their RV not real happy with the > latest letter from Textron on the oil impeller? Engine is running so so good I > just hate to tear it down. > > JMP > Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com >---- Begin Forwarded Message >Return-Path: >Received: from montana.nwlink.com by ix9.ix.netcom.com >(8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) >Received: from big-bertha (port65.annex4.nwlink.com [206.129.23.65]) by >Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960229063705.006919d8(at)mail.nwlink.com> >X-Sender: smapua(at)mail.nwlink.com >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 22:37:05 -0800 >To: support(at)mcafee.com >From: "Steven J. Mapua" <smapua(at)nwlink.com> >Subject: VIRUSES--IMPORTANT PLEASE READ IMMEDIATELY (fwd) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
Subject: leaking fuel tank (fwd)
Date: Feb 28, 1996
As someone suggested, try to find the source of the leak with some soapy water. It still may be leaking around one of your plugs or the cap. If you have to open up the float access hole, you may want to try just taking a small paint brush and just brush slosh on the seams or just slosh the seam in the area that has the leak. You don't need to slosh the entire tank as the solid metal will not leak. I hand brushed all my seams with slosh before I closed the float access hole. I also had a access hole in the outboard rib that I could use to access the other half of the tank. I applied several coats of slosh just on the seams. My tanks did not leak. Herman > hopefully..... > > Well, they still leak... although nowhere near as bad as the first test. If I > pressurize to 5 in. w.c. they will leak down about 1 in of w.c. per hour or so. > BTW, per Vans these tanks have not been sloshed. > > I will be removing the tanks in the near future to determine exactly where the > #$@&* leaks are. Once this is known, how have those of you who might be as > unfortunate as I am sealed them? Can you suck a vaccum on the tank and pull > slosh or some other sealant in where the leaks are? Or, did you just go ahead > and slosh first to see if that took care of the leaks? What do you think would > be the best approach? > > Any help - as always - would be appreciated. > > Bruce Stobbe > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Feb 29, 1996
Subject: Re: Micro Encoder
> Van put one in the RV-8, and if he's happy with it, I guess most >of us would be too. > > >Graham Taylor gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au >119 Darley Circle, Bullcreek, WA 6149, AUSTRALIA >Phone (619) 332 4094 Fax (619) 310 6048 > Van would be happy if it only had a tach, airspeed indicator and a piece of string taped in front of the canopy. He thinks everything else is overkill.:-) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Feb 29, 1996
Subject: Re: OSHKOSH
>Is there anyone who would be willing to hanger my RV-4 Aug 5,6,7 near >OSHKOSH? I would gladly pay a fee. My wife and I want to attend for the >first time but I have no intention of flying in there. I would stay at >a motel near my 4 and rent a car. If I can make all the arrangements, >hanger/motel/car I'll go, if not I'll try next year. >Dan Boudro >home (505) 275-3179 >office (505) 889-7241 >Albuquerque, NM > Come on Dan, it's like going to Mecca, ya got to do it. It's a zoo but everybody ought to do it at least once..... and anyway you might find a motel room in lets say......St. Louis. On the serious side, does anybody else besides me think Oshkosh is getting away from the homebuilder. Sure, there is alot of experimentals, but whats with all the certified stuff and bizjets. Looks more and more like the Paris Airshow. Went last year but I'm sitting this one out. If I want to look at a learjet I'll walk out on my ramp. Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: joehine(at)mi.net (joehine)
Subject: Re: OSHKOSH
>Is there anyone who would be willing to hanger my RV-4 Aug 5,6,7 near >OSHKOSH? I would gladly pay a fee. My wife and I want to attend for the >first time but I have no intention of flying in there. I would stay at >a motel near my 4 and rent a car. If I can make all the arrangements, >hanger/motel/car I'll go, if not I'll try next year. >Dan Boudro >home (505) 275-3179 >office (505) 889-7241 >Albuquerque, NM > > Dan, I don't know why you don't want to fly into Oshkosh but I would rethink the subject. I flew in last summer for the first time, I was with a friend in his 6, we were both quite nervous about it but like most things you expect to be bad it wasn't near as bad as we expected. We went in a day or two after the show started and no more none show plane traffic (spam cans) was being accepted so the traffic was very light. The airshow had just begun when we landed (with two of Van's aircraft) and we taxied down the length of the flight line. It wasn't even my aircraft and I had a sense of accomplishment. There was nowhere to park with the RV's when we got there so the ground crew parked us with all the airshow aircraft until later in the afternoon. It was a very positive experiance and I am looking forward to doing the same when my four is finished. If you read and know the proceedure for flying into Oshkosh it works quiet well. People are very carefull around the aircraft on the show line and the other RV owners and passengers in the area will look out for your aircraft when you are not around. It is possible to rent cars on the field and EAA can help you with accomodations in the area. Email me direct if you what more information, so we dont clog up the list Hope this helps Joe Joe Hine joehine(at)mi.net 506-452-1072 Home 506-452-3495 Work ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Feb 29, 1996
Subject: Re: Fast Build Options.....
>> >> Anyone encountered any static from your inspectors about the 51% rule >> regarding the use of "fast build" options?? > >I think it wa Van who once told me that the RV kits were something >like 20% complete from the factory, leaving the builder with 80% to do >themselves. That leaves a LOT of room for fast-build options. Never >heard of anyone running into problems with it. > >Randall Henderson >RV-6 When I was building somebody told me you were 50% done when you had it on the gear. I didn't believe him. I do now. Regards : Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LHaines794(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 29, 1996
Subject: Re: Spin Question
writes: >3. hard rudder to stop turn (if you can't figure out which way you are >turning step on either one, if it works ,great. If it doesn't work, step on >the other one and it will) I read someplace that the rudder you need to step on will be the stiffest one. Any truth to this? I have only seen it mentioned once in many posts about spins here and elsewhere. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jperri(at)interserv.com
Date: Feb 29, 1996
Subject: Re: AutoPilots
Ron .. get in touch with Forrest. He had one and replaced it with a S-Tec like mine. They are expensive but really good! Several decisions need to be prior to puchase. Is a wing leveler all you need or do you want a good cross country and IFR type system ? I have done a lot of both. I have my own opinions which I would glad to share with the group at the next meeting. Hope I can make it.. JMP ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
Subject: Re: control stick grips
Date: Feb 29, 1996
> > Another question: what type of caps are people using to cover the control > sticks and for attaching PTT's? Electric box knock-out plugs aren't the > right size... :) > > Ed Bundy > I used bicycle foam grips. They are a black dense foam and I like them. They even come with a plastic cap end in which you can put a PTT switch. Don't remember the cost but you can get a pair for $5.00 or less. On the pilot stick, I think I had to wet the inside of the foam to get it to slip on. The moisture soon dries out and then it fit's tight. I use the same thing on my Pitts and RV4. Heck, I even saw these for sale in the grocery store. Herman Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 29, 1996
Subject: Re: Micro Encoder
>You know, almost every time I type RV4 I accidently type RV$ by failing to >let up on the shift key - I wonder if this is some type of subliminal >message...? > Hmmm... very Freudian. Ken wrote in an RVator that when he was building his airplane he told everyone it was a "$1,000 airplane". Every time he turned around, it wanted $1,000. -- Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HowardRV(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 29, 1996
Subject: Top Deck
On the Fues. skin, top deck (the one that runs from the instrument panel to the firewall) on the RV-6, is there any reason why this cannot be put on with screws rather than rivets? Would make for easy access to the instruments on birds with sliding canopies. Just wondering. Howard Kidwell howardrv(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: frankv(at)pec.co.nz
Date: Mar 01, 1996
Subject: Re: Spin Question
In <960229193201_234624969(at)mail06.mail.aol.com>, on 02/29/96 at 07:32 PM, aol.com!LHaines794(at)matronics.com said: >>3. hard rudder to stop turn (if you can't figure out which way you ar >>turning step on either one, if it works ,great. If it doesn't work, s >>the other one and it will) >I read someplace that the rudder you need to step on will be the >stiffest one. Any truth to this? I have only seen it mentioned once >in many posts about spins here and elsewhere. I've just rejoined the list, so I'm not sure how this thread starts. Anyway, FWIW, I have done numerous spins in a C150 Aerobat (but none in an RV). In the Aerobat, you have to stand on the rudder to hold it in the spin. You also have to hold the stick right back. Letting go breaks the spin. One of the standard bits of advice on how to get out of a spin is to firstly reduce power, then let go of everything. If that doesn't work, stand on one of the rudders. If that doesn't improve things *immediately*, stand on the other one. Finally, a cautionary note. I've done a couple of glider flights in a Bocian (sp?). In that, if you're a bit (well maybe a lot :-) uncoordinated in a turn, the rudder kicks hard out of the turn, _and_stays_there_!! When it first happened, I thought it was the instructor behind me. It took quite a bit of push to get it straight again. My guess is that once a spin is started in that ship, it would tend to continue spinning, unlike the Aerobat. The same thing might apply to an RV? Could some-one post how an RV behaves in a spin? If its been posted recently, please email it to me. I'm keen to find out, since I eventually plan to do aerobatics in my RV. Frank. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- frankv(at)pec.co.nz ----------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1996
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Micro Encoder
Graham, Is it TSO'd or otherwise fit for IFR use? Leo Davies > >On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, John Darby wrote: > >> RMI micro encoder? Whats dat?> >> > >A 3 1/8" instrument, which is an altimeter (inches or Millibars). >Vertical Speed Indicator, Airspeed indicator (knots, or mph), and an >encoder to interface with your transponder. Also it can eb programmed to >give warnings for Vne, Vs, closing on or deviating from an assigned >altitude (great for IFR training). It also is an Outside Air temp, and >gives TAS, pressure altitude, density altitude. It doesn't make a cup of >coffer though. Tough !! Get the brochure, you'll be very impressed, and >you'l save $ over buying separate instruments, and have panel space to >spare. Van put one in the RV-8, and if he's happy with it, I guess most >of us would be too. > > >Graham Taylor gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au >119 Darley Circle, Bullcreek, WA 6149, AUSTRALIA >Phone (619) 332 4094 Fax (619) 310 6048 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Removable panel?
>Another question: what type of caps are people using to cover the control >sticks and for attaching PTT's? Electric box knock-out plugs aren't the >right size... :) > >Ed Bundy > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Shelby1138(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 29, 1996
Subject: Re: Small Fuel Tank Leak - advice needed
I have tested one of my tanks and found a small leak(pinhole type) in the outboard rib/skin/baffle seam area. I attempted to do my tanks without the slosh, so should I get a little slosh and let it run into this area, or as some suggest cut a hole in my rear baffle and repair? I am dreading the latter. Also, I might have an interest in sharing the expense of a Frey Fuse jig with someone. I am in Nashville, TN. To those of you with the Rocky Mountain Instruments - how is the visability in the sun and at night? I really like both of these. Shelby In Nashville RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: rbusick(at)nmsu.edu (Robert Busick)
Subject: Re: Micro Encoder
>> Van put one in the RV-8, and if he's happy with it, I guess most >>of us would be too. >> >> >>Graham Taylor gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au >>119 Darley Circle, Bullcreek, WA 6149, AUSTRALIA >>Phone (619) 332 4094 Fax (619) 310 6048 >> >Van would be happy if it only had a tach, airspeed indicator and a piece of >string taped in front of the canopy. He thinks everything else is overkill.:-) Actually, I think Van is a little excessive. You don't need the string taped to the front canopy! As a hombuilder you can put all the instruments in the plane you want. And for some people that gives them bragging rights and makes their plane very impressive to non flyers. I have a friend that has a loran and panal mounted GPS, two handheld GPSs, two VORs, AN receiver, HSI and any other gizmo you can think of. He always flys in CAVU and IFR, I follow roads. Bob Busick RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Spin Question
Date: Feb 29, 1996
> writes: > > >3. hard rudder to stop turn (if you can't figure out which way you are > >turning step on either one, if it works ,great. If it doesn't work, step on > >the other one and it will) > > I read someplace that the rudder you need to step on will be the stiffest > one. Any truth to this? I have only seen it mentioned once in many posts > about spins here and elsewhere. > I doubt it. So far as I know, the airflow during a spin is pretty well symmetrical. Can't say for sure, though--I've never tried stepping on the wrong one . Tedd McHenry tedd(at)idacom.hp.com Edmonton, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: Mike Creager <mikec(at)vtcom3.vantek.net>
Subject: Re: Electrical Wiring
Fred would you please tell me where to send a SASE for the schmatics, I am in the planning stages and need all the info possible. (RV-6A). Thanks Mike Creager Soon RV-6A > For those of you who have sent me SASE's for electrical system schmatics, >they're in the mail, along with a drawing of my basic panel layout, a print >on an alternative elevator trim cable, and a neat compass card holder print. >Hope they help.... > >Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV >wstucklen(at)aol.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Removable panel?
>Another question: what type of caps are people using to cover the control >sticks and for attaching PTT's? Electric box knock-out plugs aren't the >right size... :) > >Ed Bundy Ed, now don't laugh, I've already admitted that I'm cheap. I made mine out of a sewing thread spool that my wife had used on her machine. With a little help from a wood hasp, it fit in the stick good & tight. A Radio Shack switch fits in the hole good (its a push to close switch that is spring loaded to the open position, just what you need). When Bob Brashear saw it, he laughed and gave me one just like it, except plastic that he had turned out on a lath. Then a bicycle handlebar grip foam cover slipped on was just fine.(soap the insides, the first attempt was torn because I hadn't) No, it doesn't look like the stick in an F-4, but then it doesn't have guns & iron bombs on it either. I am using the plastic one that Bob gave me, figured it wont swell & shrink as much as the wood one would have, but the wood one is still in the shop as part of my 'one of these days it may be needed' things. (I have a ranch that is filled with things like that). The wire for the PPT runs down through the center of the stick. Like I admit, I'm cheap, but it works. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mbaker(at)gate.net
Subject: WTB: Rivet Squeezer & Questions
Date: Feb 29, 1996
Greetings RV-LIST'ers! I'm finally getting started on my RV. I have my horizontal stab spar going together, so it's (past) time to get serious about tools. About the only major thing I don't have is a rivet squeezer. I've been agonizing over buying a pneumatic squeezer, but will probably save the money for something else. Does anyone have a squeezer - hand or pneumatic - or know where I might be able to pick a used one up reasonably? Is Avery's squeezer really better than the Tatco? Would I do better ordering the 3" yoke squeezer or will it flex too much? As always, I appreciate your help! Mickey Baker | Sage Research Corporation mbaker(at)gate.net | Pompano Beach, FL KC4ZU PP-ASEL-IA Cheetah N9856U | (305)785-2354 "Men should pause for ONE MOMENT and take another LONG LOOK at the very thing that brings meaning to their meaningless lives." -B. Breathed ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: OSHKOSH
>Is there anyone who would be willing to hanger my RV-4 Aug 5,6,7 near >OSHKOSH? I would gladly pay a fee. My wife and I want to attend for the >first time but I have no intention of flying in there. I would stay at >a motel near my 4 and rent a car. If I can make all the arrangements, >hanger/motel/car I'll go, if not I'll try next year. >Dan Boudro >home (505) 275-3179 >office (505) 889-7241 >Albuquerque, NM > Dan: Probably the hardest thing about Oshkosh is the hanger/motel/car. Rooms are hard to come by. Flying into OSH isn't as bad as I thought it would be, I've flown in 4 or 5 times. I feel the procedure works pretty well, you just need to be very observant. An extra pair of eyes is handy. If you're aprehensive, go with plan "B", there will always be another Ohskosh. The main thing is to go at least once, it's really great, really too much to see in 5-7 days. Good luck and have a great time. Bob Skinner ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: OSHKOSH
>On the serious side, does anybody else besides me think Oshkosh is getting >away from the homebuilder. Sure, there is alot of experimentals, but whats >with all the certified stuff and bizjets. Looks more and more like the Paris >Airshow. > >Went last year but I'm sitting this one out. If I want to look at a learjet >I'll walk out on my ramp. > >Regards: >Rusty Gossard >N47RG RV-4 Flying Rusty: I've felt the same way for years, that experimentals sometimes take a back seat. But, I've found that between seminars, speakers, display booths and looking at all of the experimentals (even plastic planes) you can use up most of your time. I've haven't been to the warbirds or ultralights for years. I'm going to S & F this year, may not go to OSH. The food is better down south and it's a little more laid back. I'd like to see more regional or local flyins or, better yet, RV flyins. There's getting to be enough of us now that we could have a flyin just about anywhere, even Nebraska. I plan on going to Boone, Iowa and the Rocky Mountain flyin this year---lots of RV's. Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com>
Date: Feb 29, 1996
Subject: Re: OSHKOSH
> If I can make all the arrangements, > hanger/motel/car I'll go, if not I'll try next year. > Dan Boudro Dan, Good Luck! I generally make reservations in November or December. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Feb 29, 1996
Subject: Re: Micro Encoder
>-------------- > >> RMI micro encoder? Whats that?> >> > >A 3 1/8" instrument, which is an altimeter (inches or Millibars). >Vertical Speed Indicator, Airspeed indicator (knots, or mph), and an >encoder to interface with your transponder. Also it can eb programmed to >give warnings for Vne, Vs, closing on or deviating from an assigned >altitude (great for IFR training). It also is an Outside Air temp, and >gives TAS, pressure altitude, density altitude. It doesn't make a cup of >coffer though. Tough !! Get the brochure, you'll be very impressed, and >you'l save $ over buying separate instruments, and have panel space to >spare. Van put one in the RV-8, and if he's happy with it, I guess most >of us would be too. > >-------------- Hello everyone, I'm doing some fuel flow testing for Van's aircraft with their blue RV-6A. We will be recording serial data from a FuelScan DX and the RMI uEncoder simultaneously to analyze engine performance before and after they install a new type of ignition system. One of the 8 output serial formats on the FuelScan includes an ASCII format that can be directly read into spreadsheet programs like Excel for post-flight analysis of fuel data. The plan is to capture serial data from the RMI uEncoder simultaneously so that altitude, airspeed and temperature data can be overlaid on the fuel flow data for a better picture of 'whole environment'. As it turns out, the serial data format from the RMI unit is a rather strange combination of binary and ascii that is generally not directly readable by a human. To make matters worse, version 101.7 (circa 1990) of the uEncoder firmware and the latest version 10.1 (circa 1995) have different serial output formats. To overcome this problem, I have written two converter programs that will read the raw RMI data format, and write a comma separated ASCII output file that can be directly read in by spreadsheet programs. I have made the executables and C source code available on the Matronics FTP site (ftp.matronics.com) under the directory "/pub/business/matronics/RMI_Data_Converter". The source code documents how the programs are used but generally they are run using the following syntax: "rmi_.exe ", where "rmi_o.exe" is for converting 101.x output data and "rmi_n.exe" is for converting 10.1 output data. Yes, it would seem that version 101.x code would have come after 10.x but that's how RMI did it. Let me know if you try the programs; I'd be interested in any feedback you might have. They're quick and dirty but they get the job done. Matt Dralle Matronics PS - The Matronics FTP site (ftp.matronics.com) is working now, although the 'dir' command still doesn't work right. Use 'ls' instead for now. Expect an archive update in a few days. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: aero(at)napanet.net (Richard Slavens)
Subject: RV-8 Info
For those of us interested in the RV-8, the April issue of Kitplanes Mag. has the first of a two part article on the RV-8 (it's also on the front page), by a real "test pilot" Chuck Berthe. Part 2 will be in the May issue. It's a good write up, most of it is from the pilot/cockpit point of view. Now, if we could just get started ... Same magazine also has part 2 of Jon Johanson's around the world in a RV-4 flight. (part 1 was in the Feb. issue) Dick waiting for RV-8 ---------------------------- Richard Slavens (APC) Napa, CA N19313 WA6TMF aero(at)napanet.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 29, 1996
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: N-number Reservation
Hi Folks, Someone on the list a while back -- maybe it was BF Gibbons -- suggested that anyone who wants to reserve an 'N' number for their RV ought to do so ASAP to get the simplest one possible with their initials, if that is what they want. Well, I took his advice and started looking for available 'N' numbers at the AvWeb location. You can also get to the search utility at http://acro.harvard.edu/GA/ga_info.html I kept cycling thru and searching for existing combos of N - 2 digits - WC (for William Costello, of course) and found a FEW left. Of course, this list doesn't include reserved numbers, just assigned numbers, so it isn't sure-fire. You need to try to get several possibilities. Anyhow, I mailed my request to the FAA in Oklahoma City for N97WC and got it! Costs $10 per year and can be renewed each year for another $10. That gives me another incentive to finish the plane! Don't want to go broke paying the reservation fees! :) Also, now I can fantasize flying in the pattern and announcing 'Experimental niner seven whiskey charlie' !! So, if any of you guys or gals out there would like a four digit n-number, I suggest you act fast, cause they are getting scarce. Keep those rivet guns thumpin'. Bill Costello -- ___ _______________________ \ \ _ _ / / \ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello \ X-*#####*******......./ Chicago / o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on emp. \ \__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com / \______________________\ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1996
From: Jim Ayers <102337.2252(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: rv-list: Ivoprop "MAGNUM" prop
>Tom Sargent said, > I saw an e-mail yesterday claiming that IVOprops were unreliable. >I have 2 questions: 1) does any one have any experience with their >reliability, 2) if they are reliable, do they perform well on an RV? I >can't recall ever seeing an IVOprop on an RV, yet their advertising says >they're the biggest selling props. What's the story? There have been 13,000 Ivoprop sold. Most of them for Ultralights and Kitfox type homebuilts with the 2 cycle engines. The Ivoprop ultralight prop design has not functioned properly on a four cycle four cylinder engine. It hasn't mattered whether it was a 60 hp Volkswagen engine, or a 200 hp IO-360 Lyc. Ivo developed the "MAGNUM" propeller to operate reliably on the four cycle four cylinder Lycoming engine. This has not been an easy task. He has always done all of his own flight testing as part of his effort to work all of the bugs out of a new design before it is made available for sale. I offered to fly Ivo's "MAGNUM" prop, so he could have some performance data from a higher performance aircraft than the O-320 powered aircraft he was using (it was fun having a higher performance aircraft powered by a Lyc. O-290. Now I only have 243 cu. in.). Ivo was able to make a comparison to my data, when he installed the "MAGNUM" prop on a 200 hp IO-360 powered Glasair. Ivo put out a service bulletin last year, which requires a piece of stainless steel tape across the hub of the propeller blades. This tape acts as a very efficient motion detector, and the tape breaks long before any unusual vibration becomes noticeable to the pilot (The tape has to be broken twice before the operator is required to call the factory). I have been flying the Ivoprop "MAGNUM" prop on my RV-3 during the last two years. I fly the airport pattern at 2,500 to 7,500 feet above the airport with flight following from the local Pt. Mugu approach. I have a Warnke wood prop which I use as a performance reference, and for longer flights (more than two miles). (And yes, the airworthiness certificate is written so I can change between the two specific prop types tested.) My RV-3 with the LOM engine was one of the last three engines that would still break the tape on the blade hub. Ivo has required me to inspect the blades for cracks after every hour of flight. Since I had four sets of blades to test out, it just became convenient to go to a deferent set of blades after every flight hour. The latest improvement to the blades construction has stopped the tape from being broken within the first hour of flight. However, I do not have any significant time on the blades. Ivo has been upgrading my electric drive hub to the proposed production configuration, and I should get it back on Saturday (some of the new parts were not available from the machinist until today). I can not recommend using the Ivoprop "MAGNUM" prop at this time. However, it shows a very great potential. It weighs about the same as a wood prop, does not require any conversion to the engine (when this prop is ready, those cheap Cherokee engines (O-320-E2B?) are going to look pretty good), and is only $1,940 for the complete electric constant speed prop. Or, $1,740 for the electric variable pitch prop. Jim Ayers LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder 102337.2252(at)compuserve.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Harris <mharris(at)mail.microsys.net>
Subject: HS rear spar bearing rivet size?
Date: Mar 01, 1996
Hi. I have riveted the rear spar of my HS. All went well until I came to the point of installing the 6 rivets for the center elevator bearing (right in the middle of the rear spar). The plan calls for 5/16" length rivets. I tried these but found that when compressed, they did not meet the specifications dictated by the rivet checking guage (too short & too small in circumference). I assumed that the rivet was too small - so tried a 6/16" rivet instead and this worked ok. Is this a mistake in the plans? Thanks in advance, MIKE RV6A HStab ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Bennett" <bennett(at)healey.com.au>
Date: Mar 01, 1996
Subject: Re: HS rear spar bearing rivet size?
Mike, 1. Always check by adding up the metal thicknesses. There are a few errors on the plans, and besides, you are going to do quite a bit of shimming, particularly under skins. 2. Always make sure there are no gaps between the pieces. Clamp them tightly. The rivet can flow between the pieces and hold them apart. An undersized shop head is a symptom. Peter Bennett Sydney Australia RV6 skinning fuselage > Hi. > I have riveted the rear spar of my HS. All went well until I came to the > point of installing the 6 rivets for the center elevator bearing (right in > the middle of the rear spar). > The plan calls for 5/16" length rivets. I tried these but found that when > compressed, they did not meet the specifications dictated by the rivet > checking guage (too short & too small in circumference). > I assumed that the rivet was too small - so tried a 6/16" rivet instead and > this worked ok. > Is this a mistake in the plans? > Thanks in advance, > MIKE > RV6A > HStab > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OrndorffG(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 01, 1996
Subject: Re: WTB: Rivet Squeezer & Questions
Micky the best hand squeezer on the market is from Avery In Ft Woprth...George ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Mar 01, 1996
Subject: Re: AutoPilots
>I'm the group leader of the Salt Lake RV builders group. Several of my members >are ready to buy autopilots. They would like to know if anyone has had >experience with the NAVAID autopilots. What is installation and actual use >like?? > >Ron Caldwell >RV6A >Building Empennage Ron: Check the archive files. There has been much discussion on navaids and other autopilots on the "list". Much of it recent. Ive had one flying in a 4 for 2 years. I like it. Details in the archive. Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvbildr(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 01, 1996
Subject: Re: WTB: Rivet Squeezer & Questions
I have an Avery pneumatic squeezer with 3" jaws. I like it a lot and it doesn't flex. The jaws are interchangeable with his hand squeezer. On the pneumatic squeezer, you must add washers under one side of the set many times to get the force of the plunger just right. I think Avery sells good quality stuff and he'll stand behind it. rvbildr(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com>
Date: Mar 01, 1996
Subject: Re: OSHKOSH
> > If I can make all the arrangements, > > hanger/motel/car I'll go, if not I'll try next year. > > Dan Boudro > > Dan, > > Good Luck! I generally make reservations in November or December. > > One other thing Dan... We fly into Appleton and stay there. It's easier to find a room and a car, and the drive isn't too bad. We ice down some drinks for the drive 'home' when OSH closes and are glad to get away for the evening. If you're into all the speakers, etc. this is not a great plan because you stay so late at OSH it's a little late when you get back to your room. I *may* have a source for a car if you decide on Appleton. E-mail me off line if you're interested. One last word of advice... DO IT! If you've never been, you've got to go! As for getting away from the homebuilts... maybe. We only stay four days and love every aspect it. Ultralights, homebuilts, warbirds, expos, homebuilts, lectures, hands-on, homebuilts, vendors, food...... man, I'm ready to go!! B F Gibbons RV-6 (first wing) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com>
Date: Mar 01, 1996
Subject: Re: N-number Reservation
> Someone on the list a while back -- maybe it was BF Gibbons -- > suggested that anyone who wants to reserve an 'N' number for their RV > ought to do so ASAP to get the simplest one possible with their > initials, if that is what they want. Actually it wasn't me but I do have a post script... I called OKC two weeks ago and spoke with a nice lady in the Registry Division. She looked up all available two diget numbers ending with ST and BT and gave me the list of availables (her search included reserved numbers). There weren't many! I picked the one I wanted and wrote my letter. I even included two optional choices, just in case. I got a letter back yesterday saying none of the three choices are available. What?? Someone has taken all three numbers in the past week?? I doubt it! So now I'm trying to find out what the deal is. Just thought those of you trying to reserve numbers might be interested. B F Gibbons RV-6 (first wing) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1996
From: scottg(at)villagenet.com (scott gesele)
Subject: Re: Spin Question
> >In the Aerobat, you have to stand on the rudder to hold it in the >spin. You also have to hold the stick right back. Letting go breaks >the spin. One of the standard bits of advice on how to get out of a >spin is to firstly reduce power, then let go of everything. If that >doesn't work, stand on one of the rudders. If that doesn't improve >things *immediately*, stand on the other one. > "letting go of everything" will work in a Cessna (152, 172, 182, etc). DO NOT TRY THIS in an aircraft that you are unsure of. A Mooney, Cherokee, Etc needs to be "driven" out of a spin. The proper recovery is as follows: -Power to idle -Full opposite rudder -As rotation stops, slight forward pressure on yoke (stick), to break the stall -Recover from dive The flight school that I use to teach out of had pictures of what happens when a person ( a former student) spins a Tomahawk. He let it progress to an unrecoverable situation and impacted with no horizontal motion. Not a pretty sight! If the aircraft is not approved for spins, proper recovery technique MUST be implemented at the first sign of a spin. -Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Re: Spin Question
Date: Feb 10, 1996
> I'm not confident that I understand what is happening in a spin. From my > understanding the inside wing is stalled producing little or no lift and the > outside wing is not in a stall condition therefore lifting the wing which > gives the rolling motion. Also, the stalled wing is producing a lot of drag > which adds to the spin. Obviously I'm not an aerodynamicist, could someone > throw me some good details. I was talking to another pilot friend of mine about this two days ago. We got to wondering about that 15,000 feet/minute. I'm wondering if the people experiencing this rate are *sure* they were in a spin and not a death spiral? When I've gone out and done spins in my FBOs C-152-A, I have a tendancy to relax the back pressure on the yoke about 1/2 way through the first rotation. This breaks the stall in the 152, but the rotation continues. Airspeed builds dramatically, and the rotation rate also increases just as dramatically. It looks like a spin, but faster. Recovery uses the same procedure as a spin. It's hard to believe an airplane will "fall" at 180 MPH with the AOA on the wings high enough for the wings to be stalled. The drag would have to be substantial. But I'm not an AeroE, and I haven't been in a stalled RV, much less a spun one. What do I know? In any case, to answer the poster regarding a spin. A true spin (not a death spiral) involves both wings being stalled, but the outside wing is less stalled. It's still generating some lift out at the tip. GA airplanes are generally designed to stall at the root first. This leaves you with aileron authority deep into the stall. Production airplanes usually rely on washout. (I'm not sure how RVs perform in this regards.) If you think about it, it makes sense. How do you enter a spin? Slow the plane down. Just before it stalls, stomp on the rudder. (Let's say you stomp on the left rudder.) The nose yaws left, which slows down the left wing and speeds up the right wing. Thus, the left wing will stall more thoroughly than the right wing, causing the rotation. Once the rotation starts, it's self-sustaining. The right wing will continue to be moving faster than the left wing, so it will continue to generate some lift -- enough to maintain the rotation. I used to fly a radio-controlled glider. It did something resembling a spin, sort of. The inside wing tip had absolutely no forward velocity -- it appeared to rotate above a point on the ground. The rest of the plane would pirouette around the inside wing tip. -J -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-595-9690(w) Showpage Software, Inc. 435 Ford Rd, Suite 315 St. Louis Park, Mn 55426 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1996
From: scottg(at)villagenet.com (scott gesele)
Subject: Re: HS rear spar bearing rivet size?
I always double check the rivet length that Van's gives. The aluminum rivet length guage that Avery sells works very well. It only costs a few bucks anyway. There were many places where the rivet that Van's specifies is too long. When you run into these areas, don't even give it a second though. -Scott N506RV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1996
From: Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com>
Subject: Re: WTB: Rivet Squeezer & Questions
One of the most used and best tools I have is my pneumatic squeezer from Avery. I built most of the AC with the 2 1/2" yoke, later I bought a 4" yoke. I use both, I wish I had bought the 4" sooner. Dan Boudro RV-4 N9167Z ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1996
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com>
Subject: Re: WTB: Rivet Squeezer & Questions
On Thu, 29 Feb 1996 mbaker(at)gate.net wrote: > Is Avery's squeezer really better than the Tatco? > > Would I do better ordering the 3" yoke squeezer or will it > flex too much? The Avery squeezer is more veruseful and versatile than the Tatco. (I had both, and sold the Tatco.) The handles on the Avery squeezer are 2 inches longer. FOr me that means that I can hand-squeeze 1/8-inch rivets with the Avery, but I could not with the Tatco. The REALLY nice thing about the Avery though, is that it used the pneumatic squeezer yokes. Which means that you can buy yokes in all different sizes and configurations for different jobs. If you buy the Avery Squeezer, get it with the 2-1/2 inch Longeron Yoke. It is the most versatile yoke of all. (That's the one that now lives on my pneumatic squeezer). My advice would be to buy the AVery hand squeezer, and get the pneumatic squeezer later if you decide you need it. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 01, 1996
Subject: Re: Top Deck
>On the Fues. skin, top deck (the one that runs from the instrument panel to >the firewall) on the RV-6, is there any reason why this cannot be put on with >screws rather than rivets? Would make for easy access to the instruments on >birds with sliding canopies. Just wondering. > >Howard Kidwell >howardrv(at)aol.com > > I've seen RV-6's with removeable panels in front of the winshield like the Mooney's have. Not a bad idea.......... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 01, 1996
Subject: Re: Fast Build Options.....
>When I was building somebody told me you were 50% done when you had it on >the gear. I didn't believe him. I do now. > >Regards : >Rusty Gossard >N47RG RV-4 Flying Van's states that the AIRFRAME takes 2000 Hrs to build. As a first time builder I did it in that amount of time. It took another 1300 Hrs to finish the bird! Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 01, 1996
Subject: Re: Electrical Wiring
> >Fred > >would you please tell me where to send a SASE for the schmatics, I am in >the planning stages and need all the info possible. (RV-6A). > >Thanks >Mike Creager >Soon RV-6A > > Anybody wanting an electrical system schematic, a panel layout, a neat compass card holder print, or a elevator trim cable for servo's mounted on the aft deck, send a SASE to: Fred Stucklen 148 Winkler Rd. E. Windsor, Ct. 06088-9708 The schematic shows all power wiring, switching, fusing etc. It does not include the specific wiring for the radios (except for power). This data is usually very specific to the radios you choose. remember to purchase or have supplied that wiring data when you buy your radios if you plan on doing the wiring yourself. If you do the wiring yourself, be sure to use the proper crimping tools. While it's easy to install the radio wiring with front skins off, repairing broken wires later on can be a real nightmare..... Fred Stucklen wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1996
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com>
Subject: Re: Small Fuel Tank Leak - advice needed
On Thu, 29 Feb 1996 Shelby1138(at)aol.com wrote: > I have tested one of my tanks and found a small leak(pinhole type) in the > outboard rib/skin/baffle seam area. I attempted to do my tanks without the > slosh, so should I get a little slosh and let it run into this area, or as > some suggest cut a hole in my rear baffle and repair? I am dreading the > latter. I would try to get some slosh into that area first. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1996
From: "Marian K. Rendall or Scott Sawby" <mkr(at)netw.com>
Subject: Re: Small Fuel Tank Leak - advice needed
>I have tested one of my tanks and found a small leak(pinhole type) in the >outboard rib/skin/baffle seam area. I attempted to do my tanks without the >slosh, so should I get a little slosh and let it run into this area, or as >some suggest cut a hole in my rear baffle and repair? I am dreading the >latter. > I had a pinhole leak in this same area, right in the corner. I enlarged it with a small drill bit (hand held) and forced some proseal in there with a syringe. It seemed to solve the problem, though I haven't had any fuel in the tanks yet. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Re: OSHKOSH
Date: Mar 01, 1996
> Come on Dan, it's like going to Mecca, ya got to do it. It's a zoo but > everybody ought to do it at least once..... and anyway you might find a > motel room in lets say......St. Louis. Oh, it's not that bad. I'm sure there are hotel rooms available here in the Minneapolis area. It's what -- 4 or 5 hours to drive or so? If you can't get a hotel room in Mpls, I'll let you have the guest room. :-) -Joe -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-595-9690(w) Showpage Software, Inc. 435 Ford Rd, Suite 315 St. Louis Park, Mn 55426 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Re: BAC firewall package
Date: Mar 01, 1996
> > Just > > talked to Van's, and it turns out that they will now be supplying > > the firewall and components pre-drilled and clecoed together with > > all 6/6A fuselage kits. > > Gad! Pre-drilled gear legs, wing and empennage skins, clecoed firewalls. Is > there going to be anything left for me to do when I'm finally ready to start > on mine? I want to take the opportunity to thank all of you who have gone before me, so that Vans can do things like pre-drill the wing skins, and now these latest improvements to the firewall. Thanks. -Joe Now, if I can only get moved into the new house so I can get back to` serious building... -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-595-9690(w) Showpage Software, Inc. 435 Ford Rd, Suite 315 St. Louis Park, Mn 55426 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1996
From: Brian Yablon <brian(at)lanart.com>
Subject: Harmon Rockets?
Hi Folks, Does anyone know what the deal is on the Harmon Rocket? I've seen pictures, and heard that its an IO-540 powered RV4 with appropriate structural mods. Can anyone build one of these? If so, where do you get the plans? How does it perform (besides "awesome")? How does Vans feel about it? -Brian ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian Yablon Position: Hardware Engineer LANart Corporation Internet: byablon(at)lanart.com 145 Rosemary Street, Suite D1 Ma-bell: (617) 444-1994 x206 Needham, MA 02194 FAX: (617) 444-3692 LANart: Difference by Design ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1996
From: "Gene Gottschalk (286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Spin Question
>writes: > >>3. hard rudder to stop turn (if you can't figure out which way you are >>turning step on either one, if it works ,great. If it doesn't work, step on >>the other one and it will) > >I read someplace that the rudder you need to step on will be the stiffest >one. Any truth to this? I have only seen it mentioned once in many posts >about spins here and elsewhere. Step on the stiff rudder is what I was taught. BTW, the let go of the stick method apparently doesn't work in all aircraft. I'm training in a Zlin 242 and this will not work. To paraphrase the POH, positive control stick input is required for spin recovery. I was taught PARE. Power off Ailerons, neutral Rudder, opposite (stiff pedal) Elevators forward Gene RV6a ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ^ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Gene Gottschalk |N| e-mail : geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov~ ~ Goddard Space Flight Center |A| [128.183.166.137] ~ ~ Code 540/505, Hughes STX |S| Telephone : (301) 286-0708 ~ ~ Greenbelt, MD 20771 |A| FAX : (301) 286-0270 ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ^ ^ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1996
From: "Gene Gottschalk (286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: control stick grips
Another little trick I learned with motorcycles is to shoot a little paint from a rattle can into the grip. It lubricates the grip enough for easy installation, and when it dries it provides some adhesion. Motorcycle grips tent to get loose over time, I guess it's something to do with the death grip. The paint "glued" them tight until you cut them off. Gene-RV6a -Still trying to start the firewall! ======================================================================== > I used bicycle foam grips. They are a black dense foam and I like > them. They even come with a plastic cap end in which you can put a > PTT switch. Don't remember the cost but you can get a pair for > $5.00 or less. On the pilot stick, I think I had to wet the inside > of the foam to get it to slip on. The moisture soon dries out and > then it fit's tight. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 01, 1996
Subject: Re: Top Deck
>On the Fues. skin, top deck (the one that runs from the instrument panel to >the firewall) on the RV-6, is there any reason why this cannot be put on with >screws rather than rivets? Would make for easy access to the instruments on >birds with sliding canopies. Just wondering. The problem is that you can only put screws in the top part of the skin. As you progress down the sides the fixed windshield blocks access to the screws. Van's claims that you have to fasten it all the way down to the longerons. Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1996
From: Rick Solana <102131.2407(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: LYCOMING NEWS
Just talked with Ken Johnson at Lycoming and learned a lot: - In 60 to 90 days, Van should be offering Lycomings with an electronic ignition option. - Auto fuel does not seem likely as an "official option" in the future, particularly since auto fuels have different specifications depending on the region of the world it is going to and the season of the year. 100LL, on the other hand, has the same spec no matter where you find it. - A new unleaded fuel is not likely to be cheaper. Also, it should not be a big octane problem since removing the lead lowers the octane from 100 to about 96, which should not be a huge issue to get back to 100. - Van's engines were originally certified for 91 and 96 octane fuels, and maybe even lower! Rick Solana, RV-6a fuselage in the jig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
Date: Mar 01, 1996
Subject: Re: Micro Encoder
> >> Van put one in the RV-8, and if he's happy with it, I guess most >>of us would be too. >> >> >>Graham Taylor gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au >>119 Darley Circle, Bullcreek, WA 6149, AUSTRALIA >>Phone (619) 332 4094 Fax (619) 310 6048 >> >Van would be happy if it only had a tach, airspeed indicator and a piece of >string taped in front of the canopy. He thinks everything else is overkill.:-) > > Whats the string for?? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892 2300 Oakmont Way #205 Fax: 541-342-5492 Eugene, Oregon 97401 email: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
Date: Mar 01, 1996
Subject: Re: AutoPilots
>I'm the group leader of the Salt Lake RV builders group. Several of my members >are ready to buy autopilots. They would like to know if anyone has had >experience with the NAVAID autopilots. What is installation and actual use >like?? > >Ron Caldwell >RV6A >Building Empennage > Ron, There are about 6 RV's flying in Eugene with the Navaid. They are for the most part happy with them. Some people have trouble figuring out how to get them to lock in on the track they want. One "complaint" is thay wish they were three axis instead of two. There is quite a bit of discussion in the archives about them. I have also been checking out the autopilots from Empire. Look at their home page at http://user.aol.com/chanik/ed. The three axis autopilot is selling for $700. Two of the systems have been sold to RV builders but no report yet. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892 2300 Oakmont Way #205 Fax: 541-342-5492 Eugene, Oregon 97401 email: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1996
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: WTB: Rivet Squeezer & Questions
Whether you get a pneumatic or hand squeezer, you're probably going to end up wanting more than one yoke. The larger deeper throat is handy for a lot of stuff but for getting into tight spots, you'll need a shallow one because those have smaller "noses" and can get in tighter. Yes I recommend the Avery if you get a hand squeezer. I have a Tatco with 2 yokes that are useless on my Pneumatic which I eventually broke down and bought. The deeper Avery yokes also don't have as much problem with bending rivets since they're much beefier than the tatco yokes so they don't flex as much. I've found it's nice to have more than one squeezer since it saves having to change dies (and yokes!) so much. Randall Henderson RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1996
From: "Gene Gottschalk (286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Fast Build Options.....
That makes me feel somewhat better. Last builder I talked with at Oshkosh said when you finish all the stuff Van sends you your about half done! -Gene, RV6a > Van's states that the AIRFRAME takes 2000 Hrs to build. As a first time >builder I did it in that amount of time. It took another 1300 Hrs to finish >the bird! > >Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV >wstucklen(at)aol.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1996
From: Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com>
Subject: oshkosh
OK GUYS! YOU CONVINCED ME! Mea Culpa... I'll fly into Oshkosh but not this year, next. I have to be up there on business this year about a month before so I'll take a look around and spend the next 12 months getting ready, I haven't got camping gear 1 and that way I'll get some hours on the RV first. Thanks for all the input! Dan Boudro (somewhat more humble) RV-4 N9167Z ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
Subject: Re: Small Fuel Tank Leak - advice needed (fwd)
Date: Mar 01, 1996
You might try putting a small diam. hose (plastic tubing or 3/8 rubber fuel line hose ) on a plastic funnel and then insert the hose into the tank and get the end close to the area with the leak and then pour some slosh into the funnel. This would direct the slosh to the specific area. Then move the tank around some to spread it out in this area and let it cure. Herman > > On Thu, 29 Feb 1996 Shelby1138(at)aol.com wrote: > > > I have tested one of my tanks and found a small leak(pinhole type) in the > > outboard rib/skin/baffle seam area. I attempted to do my tanks without the > > slosh, so should I get a little slosh and let it run into this area, or as > > some suggest cut a hole in my rear baffle and repair? I am dreading the > > latter. > > I would try to get some slosh into that area first. > > Best Regards, > Dave Barnhart > rv-6 sn 23744 > Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1996
From: scottg(at)villagenet.com (scott gesele)
Subject: Re: IRC Chat On RV's
Just wondering if there was any interest in getting an IRC Chat session going at some predetmined time related to RV's? What about in the evening from 8:00pm eastern to whenever? If I'm logged on tonight (taking a break from building), I'll start a room called RV-Stuff or something along that line. -Scott N506RV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TommyLewis(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 01, 1996
Subject: leaking fuel tank (fwd)
What type of slosh did you use? I ask because Van no longer recommends a slosh because of the new fuel additives. I understand there is a "thinner" proseal available that can be painted on, but apparently I have not looked in the right catalogs yet because I have not found it. TommyLewis(at)aol.com new fuselage kit in garage RV6A - N967RV reserved --------------------- From: austin.ibm.com!dierks(at)matronics.com Date: 96-02-29 18:11:50 EST As someone suggested, try to find the source of the leak with some soapy water. It still may be leaking around one of your plugs or the cap. If you have to open up the float access hole, you may want to try just taking a small paint brush and just brush slosh on the seams or just slosh the seam in the area that has the leak. You don't need to slosh the entire tank as the solid metal will not leak. I hand brushed all my seams with slosh before I closed the float access hole. I also had a access hole in the outboard rib that I could use to access the other half of the tank. I applied several coats of slosh just on the seams. My tanks did not leak. Herman > hopefully..... > > Well, they still leak... although nowhere near as bad as the first test. If I > pressurize to 5 in. w.c. they will leak down about 1 in of w.c. per hour or so. > BTW, per Vans these tanks have not been sloshed. > > I will be removing the tanks in the near future to determine exactly where the > #$@&* leaks are. Once this is known, how have those of you who might be as > unfortunate as I am sealed them? Can you suck a vaccum on the tank and pull > slosh or some other sealant in where the leaks are? Or, did you just go ahead > and slosh first to see if that took care of the leaks? What do you think would > be the best approach? > > Any help - as always - would be appreciated. > > Bruce Stobbe > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1996
From: Mitchell Faatz <mitch(at)netmanage.com>
Subject: Re: IRC Chat On RV's
PwRCO~s"A~`xv&z.hE;P"7`$"90KI\asWliWt7"xGPLa/:\\o(at)MYS5h.uOMyoh.lSrBB]%_8rJ[9}U ~O/w3:S\<\&p)Nt0s|KA5s|kuD/K.j&?#'*P8W/lP28(Lo[j^##fU9};tipZvOqv] P.S. Anybody around North California (bay area hopefully) have a flying RV-6A I can get a ride in? :) -Mitch, still researching the RV-6A, with a bonus check burning a hole in my pocket. wrote: Just wondering if there was any interest in getting an IRC Chat session going at some predetmined time related to RV's? What about in the evening from 8:00pm eastern to whenever? If I'm logged on tonight (taking a break from building), I'll start a room called RV-Stuff or something along that line. -Scott N506RV -----------------End of Original Message----------------- O/ Cut here -------------------Q\-------------------------------------- Mitchell Faatz Software Engineer mitch(at)netmanage.com NetManage Inc. Team Lead - Internet (408) 973-7171 Home of Chameleon TCPIP Applications for Windows MIME Enclosures OK ----------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1996
From: Russ Werner <russ(at)maui.net>
Subject: Re: HS rear spar bearing rivet size?
>Hi. >I have riveted the rear spar of my HS. All went well until I came to the >point of installing the 6 rivets for the center elevator bearing (right in >the middle of the rear spar). >The plan calls for 5/16" length rivets. I tried these but found that when >compressed, they did not meet the specifications dictated by the rivet >checking guage (too short & too small in circumference). >I assumed that the rivet was too small - so tried a 6/16" rivet instead and >this worked ok. >Is this a mistake in the plans? >Thanks in advance, >MIKE >RV6A >HStab > No problem. I ran into the same thing there. Russ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1996
From: Russ Werner <russ(at)maui.net>
Subject: Re: Harmon Rockets?
> >Hi Folks, > >Does anyone know what the deal is on the Harmon Rocket? I've seen >pictures, and heard that its an IO-540 powered RV4 with appropriate >structural mods. Can anyone build one of these? If so, where do you >get the plans? How does it perform (besides "awesome")? How does >Vans feel about it? > >-Brian Brian, You can buy plans and a kit of parts to modify the RV4 kit from John Harmon 2000 S. Union Ave. Bakersfield, CA 93307 Go and fly the thing. You will find that the awesome sums it up pretty well! Aloha, Russ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JDAviator(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 01, 1996
Subject: Archive File
Did the FTP site for the RV-LIST Archives move? Or, is the Matronics server down? I've tried accessing the Matronics FTP to download the latest archive file, with no luck. If I've missed a previous posting 'splaining all this, sorry. Thanks - Jerry Allison Mostly lurking, learning, and waiting for the RV-8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 01, 1996
Subject: Re: HS rear spar bearing rivet size?
>The plan calls for 5/16" length rivets. I tried these but found that when >compressed, they did not meet the specifications dictated by the rivet >checking guage (too short & too small in circumference). >I assumed that the rivet was too small - so tried a 6/16" rivet instead and >this worked ok. >Is this a mistake in the plans? Yeah, probably. You'll find that the callouts for rivets, bolts and other hardware are not always entirely accurate. You'll get used to judging how much rivet is protruding from the hole and use the next size (it's a LOT easier before squeezing) if appropriate. If you occasionally have a rivet or two that doesn't meet specs it isn't a big deal. A rivet has about 80-90% of it's design strength even when squashed very flat, and you'll usually do more damage drilling out and replacing a bad rivet than leaving it in. Don't make a habit out of it, but keep it in mind. -- Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 01, 1996
Subject: Re: Removable panel?
>Ed, now don't laugh, I've already admitted that I'm cheap. I made mine out >of a sewing thread spool that my wife had used on her machine. With a >little help from a wood hasp, it fit in the stick good & tight. A Radio >Shack switch fits in the hole good (its a push to close switch that is Don't worry, I won't laugh. I see no reason to spend good money on useless frills. That's why I tried to use electric box knock-out plugs. They would be perfect (and cheap) if they were only the right size... :) The 1/2" ones fit great in the flap handle, unfortunately the control stick is slightly smaller. I used grips from the control stick on a Quicksilver. They work great. -- Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Small Fuel Tank Leak - advice needed
Shelby, I used the slosh that Van sold in the past. If I remember correctly, Aircraft Spruce also sold it. My method of getting it to the right place without wasting it (there is my cheapskate approach again!) was to get a plastic syringe from the local farm feed & vet store. About a 60cc size. Get some plastic tubing that will fit over the needle attachment nub. Have the tubing long enough to go from one end of the tank to the other. Fill the syringe with slosh, insert the tube, guiding through the surge holes in the baffles, when the end gets into the right cell, inject the slosh, take out the tube, rotate the tank around so that the slosh follows the edges of baffle/rib. It runs around the edges and leaves a layer where ever it runs. Some will leak through the corners as it goes by, but with a little dexterity and alot of hoping, you can get a good coating. I did all of mine and had 3/4 can of slosh left. Saved some slosh, it helps my cheap heart, but don't know why because the money is spent anyway. Oh well, I saved some weight! BTW (isn't that e-mail for by the way?) I have used both auto and avgas,(over 2 years this month) I haven't seen any slosh coming loose--yet. I did put a filter between ea tank and the fuel selector, so in case it starts it will be caught there rather than lodging in the elec fuel pump and blocking both tanks. John D RV6 N61764 completed. >I have tested one of my tanks and found a small leak(pinhole type) in the >outboard rib/skin/baffle seam area. I attempted to do my tanks without the >slosh, so should I get a little slosh and let it run into this area, or as >some suggest cut a hole in my rear baffle and repair? I am dreading the >latter. >Shelby In Nashville >RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1996
From: crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer)
Subject: Re: rv-list: Ivoprop "MAGNUM" prop
Jim, thanks for a very well written and informative report on the Ivoprop. It's that kind of stuff that makes this list the high quality list that it is. Chet Razer crazer(at)egyptian.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: IRC Chat On RV's
Scott, Here I go showing my ignorance again, but what is 'irc network', IRC chat , all that stuff? I still haven't been able to download? the search engine etc yet! John D At 02:37 PM 3/1/96, you wrote: >Just wondering if there was any interest in getting an IRC Chat >session >going at some predetmined time related to RV's? What about Scott N506RV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1996
From: crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer)
Subject: Re: Small Fuel Tank Leak - advice needed
>I have tested one of my tanks and found a small leak(pinhole type) in the >outboard rib/skin/baffle seam area. I attempted to do my tanks without the >slosh, so should I get a little slosh and let it run into this area, or as >some suggest cut a hole in my rear baffle and repair? I am dreading the >latter. > >Also, I might have an interest in sharing the expense of a Frey Fuse jig with >someone. I am in Nashville, TN. > >To those of you with the Rocky Mountain Instruments - how is the visability >in the sun and at night? I really like both of these. > >Shelby In Nashville >RV6A > > Shelby, Its good to see you back on the net. If you know where the hole is why not try a little proseal worked in from the outside. Just mix it up and work it in with finger. If that doesn't work maby try injecting some slosh with a hypo. Stick the needle in and depress the plunger as you withdraw the needle. I've not tried either but I'd sure give it a whirl before I cut a hole in the tank baffle. Chet Razer crazer(at)egyptian.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: av8r(at)hic.net
Date: Feb 29, 1996
Subject: Re: control stick grips
> I used bicycle foam grips. They are a black dense foam and I like > them. They even come with a plastic cap end in which you can put a > PTT switch. Don't remember the cost but you can get a pair for > $5.00 or less. For info, Motorcycle grips fit perfectly - a pair consists of are two different diameters since one is for the throttle. They fit the sticks perfectly (sticks being two different sizes also). I bought a pair of aftermarket grips for a honda goldwing, - pretty chrome tops & bottoms, and soft, black foam grip section. The top is metal not plastic and can be drilled for the PTT no problem. There is an inner plastic top below this, that I then cut a square hole in to take the body of the switch. - cost about $20.00 for the pair and they look real purdy... Rob Lee, Finish paint ON!! (at least the VS, HS, pants, Tips, Rudder & elevators) RV6A N517RL - sn22626 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HowardRV(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 01, 1996
Subject: Re: Micro Encoder
The string is to check the relative wind over the nose. I.E. is the bird yawing! Course I guess the ball should have told us that but what the heck, we just flew them. We had them on the T-33 and it worked. In over 1,700 hours of T-33 time, I don't recall the string doing anything but running straight down the nose. Howard Kidwell howardrv(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1996
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: Re: OSHKOSH
Hi Folks, I'll give my 2 cents worth re Oshkosh. Being from Chicago, it is easy for me to get to Oshkosh and my wife and I have gone every year for about the last 8 years. I think your reaction to Oshkosh depends on whether you let Oshkosh control you or whether you control Oshkosh. By that I mean, if you just walk in and react to what you see, you might be overpowered by the crowds, the 747's, SST's, warbirds and heavy military stuff (Paul's favorite??), etc, etc. But if you get a program and formulate a plan, you can: 1. Meet the people from Van's and get a demo ride in your favorite RV, if you haven't had one. 2. Get, face to face and via literature, etc, all the latest and greates stuff from Van's. 3. Talk to a couple of dozen RV builders, with their planes, on the flight line and pick their brains like mad -- they are usually great guys and gals and will eagerly share their experience. 4. Go to the booths of a whole host of parts and auxiliary material providers who, specifically or in general, provide stuff for the RV. (Since there are over 8,000 RV plans and/or kits out there, there are a LOT of suppliers coming to the market!) 5. Go over to the Flea Market area and find some good buys for parts and tools. BUT you have to be VERY careful here, because it is a flea market and there are everything from very legit low budget good buy stuff to gypsies. Better know your stuff or take someone with you who does. 6. Go to the bookstore and get all those books you wanted -- like Tony Bingelis' series -- without paying the large S&H charges. 7. Stop by the EAA Museum and take photos of all the classic homebuilts you have read about for years in Sport Aviation. Well, you get the picture. Oh, yes, if you want to see any of those plastic, cotton, fiber, or old planes, there are a couple thousand of those there too! Bill Costello -- ___ _______________________ \ \ _ _ / / \ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello \ X-*#####*******......./ Chicago / o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on emp. \ \__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com / \______________________\ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1996
From: bill garrett <bgarrett(at)fast.net>
Subject: Need for Flaring tool
Hi everyone- I'm getting together an order for some things to build the RV and was wondering whether I need a 37 degree flaring tool. The thing seems expensive for the number of times I would think I'd use it. Do most of you own them or are you generally able to share with someone nearby who has one? If you own them, any suggestions as to which one to buy (the two I see advertised are Parker and Imperial Eastman)? Thanks for any and all responses. Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1996
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: OSHKOSH
---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: William Costello, INTERNET:bcos(at)ix.netcom.com RE: Re: RV-List: OSHKOSH Hi Folks, I'll give my 2 cents worth re Oshkosh. Being from Chicago, it is easy for me to get to Oshkosh and my wife and I have gone every year for about the last 8 years. I think your reaction to Oshkosh depends on whether you let Oshkosh control you or whether you control Oshkosh. . . . . I agree with Bill 100%. I've been attending since 1986 and over that span of years, there are STILL things at OSH that I've NOT seen. These fall into two categories (1) I have no interest in them or (2) they are lower on the list of priorities for things I must do. I would add a couple of things for RV'ers to consider on their personal OSH lists . . . Check out the Forums. There are 10 large tents fitted with screens, p.a. systems, overhead projectors, etc. In those tents you can come face to face with the the shakers and movers in an environment conducive to questions, discussions and critical review. I've known a few people who were dispensing questionable information but over a series of years, they ultimately couldn't make it in the clear light of day in the tents. I try to do two electrics forums every year . . . one day-time on a specific topic and an evening open QA format. I'll encourage you all to attend my or anyone else's forum where you can benefit, contribute or both. The other item is stop by the B&C Specialty Products booth in the NEW north commercial building, south of control tower, centered on west side of far east isle. Yeah, I got some hardware to show you BUT there's the other place we can lean on the counter over your drawings or spend some one-on-one time discussing your project. I love to sell you some of Bill's stuff but it's more important that we get all your questions answered no matter who's hardware you ultimately plan to use! See you at OSH 96! Bob Nuckolls AeroElectric Connection ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Mar 02, 1996
Subject: Re: OSHKOSH
>Hi Folks, > >I'll give my 2 cents worth re Oshkosh. Being from Chicago, it is easy >for me to get to Oshkosh and my wife and I have gone every year for >about the last 8 years. > >I think your reaction to Oshkosh depends on whether you let Oshkosh >control you or whether you control Oshkosh. By that I mean, if you >just walk in and react to what you see, you might be overpowered by the >crowds, the 747's, SST's, warbirds and heavy military stuff (Paul's >favorite??), etc, etc. >SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I made the comment about Oshkosh getting away from the homebuilder I figured I would get zapped. It's like knocking Mom and apple pie, Right? Don't get me wrong, I think everybody should go, at least once. You have to see it to believe it. But I do think it's getting too big. Hey,last year I parked my airplane with the other RV's on the show line and camped with friends in the 2nd to last row in the "South 40" which was literally over a 1 1/2 miles away. I believe Van made similar comments about possibly going to a 2 weekend event with experimentals one weekend and the other stuff the next. Spread the load a little. Seems like EAA is more interested in making $ on ANY and all exibitors. I remember walking past Learjet's,Citation's,Hawker's booths going to Van's. What those and similar displays have to do with the fly in/convention, other than making bucks for EAA, is beyond me. I like the seminars, supplier booths, the RV people, even the guys with plastic airplanes. I've seen all the other stuff at the "Dayton Air Show". Hey, I don't even mind letting the Aussies come Peter, ther're fun to watch.:-) IMHO smaller would be better. Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 02, 1996
Subject: Re: Electrical Wiring
>usually very specific to the radios you choose. remember to purchase or have >supplied that wiring data when you buy your radios if you plan on doing the >wiring yourself. Where can this data be obtained? I just bought a TKM comm and a Narco xpdr and the "manual" that came with them is just an operation manual for an end user. The info makes it sound like they don't want anyone but an avionics tech touching those colored spaghetti things in the back. -- Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 02, 1996
Subject: Re: BAC firewall package
>I want to take the opportunity to thank all of you who have gone before >me, so that Vans can do things like pre-drill the wing skins, and now these >latest improvements to the firewall. I like all the improvements that have been done, but it sure seems to be increasing the amount of time it takes to get kits.. There was a 3 month lead time on my finishing kit. Even parts from stock can take 2 weeks. -- Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 02, 1996
Subject: Re: Harmon Rockets?
>Does anyone know what the deal is on the Harmon Rocket? I've seen >pictures, and heard that its an IO-540 powered RV4 with appropriate >structural mods. Can anyone build one of these? If so, where do you >get the plans? How does it perform (besides "awesome")? How does >Vans feel about it? > Well, it has a climb rate in the neighborhood of 3000 fpm (can anyone say "bends"?) and I think it's about 20mph faster in cruise; well in excess of Vne on an RV4. You can get the modifacation kit from Mr. Harmon and you need a regular RV4 kit from Van's How does Van feel about it? He won't sell you the kit if you tell him you plan on turning it into a Rocket. I tend to be conservative, maybe not as conservative as Van, but close. The RV's have been very well tested, and have stood the test of time. I may be wrong, but I think there are just a handfull of customer-completed rockets and I don't feel there has been a whole lot of testing done on them. Besides, Im not willing to burn almost TWICE as much gas to get an extra 20mph, call me crazy... To each their own. -- Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KennyCobb(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 02, 1996
Subject: Re: Harmon Rockets?
John's Phone # is 805-836-1028 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1996
From: Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net>
Subject: Chicago Pilots, Fly an RV6A for 40$/hour wet
Would you like to fly a brand new RV6A with a 200HP fuel injected engine and constant speed prop that can cruise at 210 MPH ? Would you pay $40 per hour wet to do so ? Do you live in the Chicago area ? If you answered yes to these three questions, you may be interested in joining our soon to be created, non-profit, incorporated RV flying club. Hi, my name is Scott Johnson and I have been flying airplanes like Cessna 172's and Cherokees for 20 years. After 1000 hours in these airplanes, flying to me was beginning to be like driving a family sedan, not to exciting. But then I got an opportunity to fly an RV6A, and that excitement and fun was re-kindled. So I am starting a non-profit, incorporated RV flying club with the goal of providing low cost flying in a fun, safe, high performance airplane. Heres a very brief summary of how its going to work (details will be forthcoming): - Club will be non-profit and incorporated to limit personal liablity. - Airplane will be maintained only by licensed A&P mechanics employed by the club. - Club will be equity based and cost $6,000 per member, membership is set constant at 10 members. - Club member may sell their membership at anytime to another qualified pilot. - Club airplane will be insured by AVEMCO for the full value of the plane. - Club will be open to licensed pilots with 100 hours total time or more, and will require 5 hour checkout. - Monthly dues for the insurance, tie down, and 24 hour scheduling service is $50 month per member. - Plane will be based at Schaumburg or Dupage airport. - The bylaws and rules required to keep the club rolling smoothly and to preserve equitable access to the plane by all its members will be refined by its members before the club is incorporated and memberships taken. *** Note: the plane has not been purchased yet, we are looking at several RV6A's. If you know of one for sale, please let me know. - Since a number of the people interested in this club are also building RV's of their own (including myself), it is expected that over time memberships will change hands. This is great because it gives builders a chance to fly today, and non-builders the chance to fly a high performance airplane. Lest anyone think the hourly rates are to good to be true, or an equity size club of this size is not doable, I will share this with you. I have belonged to the Vagabond flying club in Chicago for many years. It also is a non-profit equity club. We have a Cessna 172 for 35 hour wet, a Warrior for 35 hour wet, and a Cherokee 140 for 30 hour wet. This club has been in existence for over 20 years. It has a membership size of 50 people so their equity position is about $1,200 per share, and their montly dues are around $50. It has been a great experience for me and one I intend to model for the new RV flying club. So if you are seriously interested in becoming part of the RV flying club, feel free to call me evenings and weekends. *** If 10 members cannot be found at the above share prices, consideration will be made to purchasing a lower cost RV with more members. (Example $40,000 RV diveded by 15 members = $2,666 per share, with hourly rates of $35, and monthly dues of $30). Scott Johnson Home: 708-980-3772 RVGASJ(at)MCS.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1996
From: cn755(at)freenet.carleton.ca (Catherine Lamport)
Subject: SUN 'N FUN
Enough about Oshkosh! My husband Dale & I are planning on visiting Sun N Fun next month. We were there two years ago and found it was much smaller and not so overwhelming as Oshkosh. Got lots of pictures of RVs and had a great time talking to the owners. We found out after the fact when we were that there had been an RV banquet with Van's people in attendance. Is there one this year and how do we get our names on the list to attend? See you at Sun 'N Fun Cathy & Dale Lamport Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario, Canada SN 23861 Tail & Wings finished P.S. I guess we will have to unsubscribe when we are away or our computer will burst from all the RV messages. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1996
From: mgamble(at)chiba.netxn.com (Michael Gamble)
Subject: Re: control stick grips
WD40 does the same sort of thing, lubs it while it goes on but also melts the grib a little. So after a short time, solid. Mick >Another little trick I learned with motorcycles is to shoot a little paint >from a rattle can into the grip. It lubricates the grip enough for easy >installation, and when it dries it provides some adhesion. Motorcycle grips >tent to get loose over time, I guess it's something to do with the death >grip. The paint "glued" them tight until you cut them off. > >Gene-RV6a -Still trying to start the firewall! >======================================================================== >> I used bicycle foam grips. They are a black dense foam and I like >> them. They even come with a plastic cap end in which you can put a >> PTT switch. Don't remember the cost but you can get a pair for >> $5.00 or less. On the pilot stick, I think I had to wet the inside >> of the foam to get it to slip on. The moisture soon dries out and >> then it fit's tight. > > > _____________________________________________________________ || Michael C. Gamble Fax: (805) 328-3860 || || Happy Troll Computing Phone: (805) 328-3840 || || 5329 Office Center Court Email: mgamble(at)chiba.netxn.com || || Suite 200 || || Bakersfield, CA 93309 || ------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com>
Date: Mar 02, 1996
Subject: N-Number reservation
I love our government. I called the FAA yesterday and asked about the the numbers I had tried to reserve. She told me she didn't know but that if I received a letter there must be some reason why I couldn't have them. I asked her to give me a list of all of the NxxST registrations available. The first two she gave me were the one's I tried to reserve. To make a long story short, I got the number I asked for originally and everyone is confused about why I was notified that I couldn't have it. I must admit, the two ladies I worked with in OKC were as helpful as they could be. I guess the moral here is, don't give up. N23ST B F Gibbons RV-6 (first wing) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DerFlieger(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 02, 1996
Subject: Re: OSHKOSH
>I think your reaction to Oshkosh depends on whether you let Oshkosh >control you or whether you control Oshkosh. By that I mean, if you >just walk in and react to what you see, you might be overpowered by the >crowds, the 747's, SST's, warbirds and heavy military stuff (Paul's >favorite??), etc, etc. > >But if you get a program and formulate a plan, you can: >1. Meet the people from Van's and get a demo ride in your favorite RV, >if you haven't had one.....etc....etc.....! RIGHT ON, BILL! I've gone almost every year since 1975 and must say your plan is perfect. My only gripe is I can't do everything I want to in seven days. Down here we lust for the nights at Molly McGuires and brats, and life in the dorm. Last year we had at least 30 from the Austin area, and many more from Central Texas EAA chapters. Jim Stugart DerFlieger(at)aol.com EAA Chapter 187, Austin, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1996
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Electrical Wiring
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 11:18:51 -0500 >Where can this data be obtained? I just bought a TKM comm and a Narco xpdr >and the "manual" that came with them is just an operation manual for an end >user. The info makes it sound like they don't want anyone but an avionics >tech touching those colored spaghetti things in the back. >-- Ed Bundy Ed . . . an other RV'ers. Until I ask for so much that he can no longer offer the service, I have a contact with a local avioinics shop who has said he would share his very complete library of installation wiring diagrams. Here's how it works: You send me (Bob Nuckolls, AeroElectric Connection, 6936 Bainbridge Road, Wichita, KS 67226-1008 a 9x11 manilla envelope with about $2 postage on it ADDRESSED to YOU. Include a list of radios you intend to install along with serial numbers if you can provide them . . . Sometimes there are differences that must be identified with serial effectivities. Include your fax no, e-mail address, phone or SOME way to readily contact you in case there are questions. As soon as I've determined that the your request is clear, I'll forward it to him for copies and mailing direct from his shop. He didn't ask for it, but it wouldn't hurt to include about $1 per radio in cash . . . copy machines arn't free nor is the paper . . . . Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1996
From: Don Mack <donmack(at)interaccess.com>
Subject: Oil canning on wing
I have just completed riveting the top skin on the wing (rv-6a). I noticed that between w-425 and the front spar there is pretty noticable oil canning occuring. If I press on that section from the inside, the oil canning pivots below where w-425 crosses the the skin towards the rear spar. I was thinking of putting a small angle piece between the w-425 and forward spar to stiffen that area up. Any suggestions? don mack rv-6a top view - right wing ------------------------------ <--forward spar | : | | : | sta 73.5--> | small-->: | <--sta 83.5 | angle : | | : | |----------------------| | ^-w425 | | | ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HowardRV(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 02, 1996
Subject: Re: N-Number reservation
Can you pass on the phone numbers in Okc. City to call? Thanks, Howard Kidwell howardrv(at)a0l.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: WTB: Rivet Squeezer & Questions
>About the only major thing I don't have is a rivet squeezer. >I've been agonizing over buying a pneumatic squeezer, but >will probably save the money for something else. Mickey Baker Mickey: This is what you've been saving your money for---a pneumatic squeezer. I think they're mighty popular, you don't see many used ones for sale. I would think that it would be very easy to sell when you're done with your project, especially if you demonstrate it to another RVer. I don't own a hand squeezer and neither will you if you buy the pneumatic. I built my own spars so I could "justify" the pnu. squeezer (but I'd probably bouught one anyway.) Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: HS rear spar bearing rivet size?
>Hi. >I have riveted the rear spar of my HS. All went well until I came to the >point of installing the 6 rivets for the center elevator bearing (right in >the middle of the rear spar). >The plan calls for 5/16" length rivets. I tried these but found that when >compressed, they did not meet the specifications dictated by the rivet >checking guage (too short & too small in circumference). >I assumed that the rivet was too small - so tried a 6/16" rivet instead and >this worked ok. >Is this a mistake in the plans? >Thanks in advance, >MIKE >RV6A >HStab Mike: As long as all of the pieces were tight against each other this shouldn't be a problem. Sometimes, the exact rivet size is in between so use your rivet cutter to make one the correct lenght. Sometimes if a rivet is too long it will tip when driven. You'll probably find this out on your own, sometime. If you build your own spar, it is important to have the #6 rivets the exact length. If you try to drive a #6 that is too long, there is a very real possibility that it will tip and drilling out rivets in a spar is something that I would not really like to think about. Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: AutoPilots
>>I'm the group leader of the Salt Lake RV builders group. Several of my members >>are ready to buy autopilots. They would like to know if anyone has had >>experience with the NAVAID autopilots. What is installation and actual use >>like?? >> >>Ron Caldwell >>RV6A >>Building Empennage > > >Ron: > >Check the archive files. There has been much discussion on navaids and >other autopilots on the "list". Much of it recent. Ive had one flying in a >4 for 2 years. I like it. Details in the archive. > >Regards: >Rusty Gossard >N47RG RV-4 Flying Rusty: Is the procedure for using the archives listed in the FAQ's that new "listers" get when they sign on? I haven't tried the new search engine yet. It came out after I went through the archives manually (not recommended:) ) If newbies are as computer illiterate as I am, they may not be able to get answers to their questions in a timely manner. I understand that re-hashing old topics might be boring to us, but maybe there are a lot of new builders that could benifit from a fresh discussion. I don't know, what's the best way to handle this? (The above discussion doesn't apply to primers, however. We definately must send them to the archives, right? :) ) Ron: I, too, have a Navid Devices and I like it. I beleive the prices went up since I purchased mine, so I don't know if I'll put one on the 6-A I'm building now. I wish a few of you guys would buy the items from Empire Development and try them out and let us know how they work. Bob Skinner Rv-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: IRC Chat On RV's
>Just wondering if there was any interest in getting an IRC Chat session >going at some predetmined time related to RV's? What about in the evening >from 8:00pm eastern to whenever? If I'm logged on tonight (taking a break >from building), I'll start a room called RV-Stuff or something along that >line. > >-Scott N506RV Scott: Talking about RV's, sounds good, but I have no idea what you're talking about. What's an IRC Chat session? Please explain the procedure. One question---between the list and the chat group, will we have any time left to build our airplanes??? Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1996
From: driehl(at)cycor.ca (David Riehl)
Subject: Re: Harmon Rockets?
>> >>Hi Folks, >> >>Does anyone know what the deal is on the Harmon Rocket? I've seen >>pictures, and heard that its an IO-540 powered RV4 with appropriate >>structural mods. Can anyone build one of these? If so, where do you >>get the plans? How does it perform (besides "awesome")? How does >>Vans feel about it? >> >>-Brian > >Brian, > >You can buy plans and a kit of parts to modify the RV4 kit from >John Harmon >2000 S. Union Ave. >Bakersfield, CA 93307 > >Go and fly the thing. You will find that the awesome sums it up pretty well! > >Aloha, > >Russ > > The Rocket is a Four on steroids, with 50 to 100 extra hp to pull it up hill. The fuselage is beefed up, forward of the rear seat bulkhead with heavyer skins and is widened by 4 inches at the front seat. The rear seat has 4 inches extra leg room. Head room is less than the RV4. Pilots 5'11" and over may find the canopy too low. The wings are clipped RV4 kits with larger fuel tanks ( prototype uses RV6 wings ). My brothers Rocket ( C-GRVF ) has yet to fly (completed in Dec.95, waiting for warmer weather) but taxi tests show very good acceleration and RVish handling. The six cylinder sounds great. David ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mbaker(at)gate.net
Subject: Re: WTB: Rivet Squeezer & Questions
Date: Mar 02, 1996
> > Mickey: This is what you've been saving your money for---a pneumatic > squeezer. I think they're mighty popular, you don't see many used ones for > sale. I would think that it would be very easy to sell when you're done > with your project, especially if you demonstrate it to another RVer. I > don't own a hand squeezer and neither will you if you buy the pneumatic. I > built my own spars so I could "justify" the pnu. squeezer (but I'd probably > bouught one anyway.) Bob Skinner RV-6 > Bob and all that replied: Thanks for all your reponses. I spoke with 17~a fellow in Michigan who has pneumatic squeezer (rebuilt) for $250. I found his name in the Archives. I'm going to order a pneumatic squeezer. For only $150 more than the Avery squeezer, it is pretty easy to justify. I'll offer it here when the RV6 is finished - sometime next century. Now I need to go get my HS rear spar out of the jig and do some deburring and priming. I was particularly careful and it looks like it's going to work okay. Thanks for everyone's input to mu questions and in the past in the RV-Archives. Mickey ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Yaw String
Howard, It started in the F-80 or before, it helped much in gunnery, eye on the pipper and the string insight. I even had it on the 84 and F-4. Been thinking of it on the RV, don't know what the prop does to it. I've seen it on at least one RV but didn't get to talk to the owner. It's interesting as I remember in a spin (with tanks off on the T-bird!) The main thing is that it puts the yaw reference up close to your line of sight. Didn't know there were still T-33 drivers around! John D >The string is to check the relative wind over the nose. I.E. is the bird >yawing! Course I guess the ball should have told us that but what the heck, >we just flew them. We had them on the T-33 and it worked. In over 1,700 hours >of T-33 time, I don't recall the string doing anything but running straight >down the nose. > >Howard Kidwell >howardrv(at)aol.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Electrical Wiring
Ed, The MX-11 Comm Radio has the wiring diag. for the plug in it. Even I did it (I'm told my soldering looks like dirt daubbers did the job). I also got the GCA intercomm - had some squeal in it. Gulf Coast said to send the radio and intercomm with my harness and they would check it out. They called me and said that they had corrected the problem, but suggested that I let them redo the harness for $165.00. When I got the stuff back, they had corrected the squeal. the harness?? I was expecting something like in a mil. a/c. They tied 2 waxed threads around it, in addition to my handie ties, didn't resolder or anything. $165.00!!!!! I made a note that afterwards to do all of my wiring. If it were me, I would call or write the co. and ask for the info you need. John D > >>usually very specific to the radios you choose. remember to purchase or have >>supplied that wiring data when you buy your radios if you plan on doing the >>wiring yourself. > >Where can this data be obtained? I just bought a TKM comm and a Narco xpdr >and the "manual" that came with them is just an operation manual for an end >user. The info makes it sound like they don't want anyone but an avionics >tech touching those colored spaghetti things in the back. > >-- Ed Bundy > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1996
From: scottg(at)villagenet.com (Scott Gesele)
Subject: Re: IRC Chat On RV's
>Scott, Here I go showing my ignorance again, but what is 'irc network', IRC >chat , all that stuff? I still haven't been able to download? the search >engine etc yet! >John D IRC chat allows real-time communications between people on the internet. This is done by: 1) Logging onto the internet 2) Running a chat program 3) Connecting to a chat server 4) Selecting a room to chat in Your specific internet provider (AOL, Prodigy, Villagenet, etc) should be able to cover 1 & 2. If you still need a chat program , try downloading NS-Chat from http://www.villagenet.com . Select the help icon, followed by Internet Apps. and Viewers. There is also a description on how to use chat under the help icon. The program will require a chat server to be specified. I log onto effnet and get good results with the following as a server: irc.colorado.edu Port=6667 irc.colorado.edu Port=6666 irc.cris.com Port=6667 Most servers use port=6667 FYI. After you log into a server select Group Conversations. This should list the active chat rooms. Select a room and start talking. Anyone can start or enter an existing room at any time. There is no additional cost for this service, except for what your internet provider charges for basic internet connection. If there is interest, I will start a room called RV-Stuff on Tuesday 3-5-96 at 8:00 PM Eastern Time. If anyone has any questions on logging into chat in general, e-mail me personally and I will try to help. Any comments or interest in a chat on Tuesday, post some sort of reply to the list. -Scott N506RV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Need for Flaring tool
Bill, In case no one else answers, my opinion: buy one. i got mine from Aircraft Spruce. Was going to borrow from a local source that should have had one, but he told me his was from the local auto parts house, the little bit of difference didn't matter! I didn't buy that, so bought one. As it turned out, it was used more than I had thought. In my case, multiply the number of times you think you will use it by a minimum of 1.5 due to my goofs. i think mine was about 65.00 (US$ in case you are across the pond or in cold country) John D >Hi everyone- > >I'm getting together an order for some things to build the RV and was >wondering whether I need a 37 degree flaring tool. The thing seems >expensive for the number of times I would think I'd use it. Do most of you >own them or are you generally able to share with someone nearby who has one? >If you own them, any suggestions as to which one to buy (the two I see >advertised are Parker and Imperial Eastman)? > >Thanks for any and all responses. > >Bill > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Zilik(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 02, 1996
Subject: Bellcrank Installation
Wow, I installed the first real control system in my 6A today. The Aileron bellcranks. I stood there marveling at how smooth they operated and imagined the ailerons responding to my every command as I moved the bellcrank back and forth. I have not had such vivid images since the day I mounted my elevators on the horz stab. Will this beast ever get done? Anyway, the reason for the post is share my experience in making the short little spacers for the belcrank from the 6061-T6 3/8 tube supplied for this purpose. The plans say the spacers are to be approximatly 7/16" in length and mine ended up being 0.430", or approximatly 7/16. Cutting the tube was no problem at all, the bandsaw did a great job. The problem was that I had cut the parts a little long (SOP) and planed to file or sand the pieces to the proper length. The parts are so small there was no way I could hold them up the the belt or disk sander to remove the remaing material (they got hot real fast) and filing was taking forever. The solution was to chuck the small tubes in my 3/8 drill and take them to the disk sander while the part was spinning in the drill chuck. This worked great. The ends of the tubes come out perfectly flat (perpendicular to the length) and due to the heat sink or rotation of the chuck (air motion) the parts when removed from the drill were not even warm. This was a very fast way of making the parts and they came out exactly the 0.430 inches that I needed. Gary Zilik RV-6A 22993 (cutting leading edge for Duck Works Landing Light) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: AutoPilots
Bob, i would like to second your comments. I'm not new to computers, but I sure am new to the internet or whatever. I'v read and re-read the FAOs, studied internet for dummies etc. The ftp at fisrt I got something in Ark. and couldn't get anykind of reaction from it, made no diff. what I typed etc. Then it was something about the ftp being broke. Now I can get something that looks like its what I wanted, but can't get any reaction from it. Tried the suggested open "ftp.matronics.com/pub/business/matronics/RV-Search" to get the 'engine' and after 20 minutes, still hadn't got anything except once it printed 'can't find file /'. Terry Williams has been helping me off list, but now something called DAEMON (wasn't he the devil in some movie?) says can't deliver that address, neither one that Terry has. Talk about feeling dumb!!! I know that this isn't to teach beginners how to do this stuff, but I sure haven't been able to get this stuff, and I would sure like to get into that 'archive' and read whats there. Well, maybe it's like building a/c, it just ain't easy! John D >>Check the archive files. There has been much discussion on navaids and >>other autopilots on the "list". Much of it recent. Ive had one flying in a >>4 for 2 years. I like it. Details in the archive. >> >>Regards: >>Rusty Gossard >>N47RG RV-4 Flying > > >Rusty: Is the procedure for using the archives listed in the FAQ's that new >"listers" get when they sign on? I haven't tried the new search engine yet. >It came out after I went through the archives manually (not recommended:) ) >If newbies are as computer illiterate as I am, they may not be able to get >answers to their questions in a timely manner. I understand that re-hashing >old topics might be boring to us, but maybe there are a lot of new builders >that could benifit from a fresh discussion. I don't know, what's the best >way to handle this? (The above discussion doesn't apply to primers, >however. We definately must send them to the archives, right? :) ) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: IRC Chat On RV's
Bob, Thanks for taking the pressure off of me. I was beginning to think i was the only one on here that didn't know what this stuff meant. John D >>Just wondering if there was any interest in getting an IRC Chat session >>going at some predetmined time related to RV's? What about in the evening >>from 8:00pm eastern to whenever? If I'm logged on tonight (taking a break >>from building), I'll start a room called RV-Stuff or something along that >>line. >> >>-Scott N506RV > >Scott: Talking about RV's, sounds good, but I have no idea what you're >talking about. What's an IRC Chat session? Please explain the procedure. >One question---between the list and the chat group, will we have any time >left to build our airplanes??? >Bob Skinner RV-6 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JZidek7003(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 03, 1996
Subject: Re: Harmon Rockets?
Brian You can get the plans from John Harmon. Basicly, in order to build a Harmon Rocket you will need to buy the RV-4 kit from Van's minus the finish kit. You buy that from Harmon. Beware, Van does not endorce the Harmon Rocket because he does not feel that the higher potential forces on the control surfaces are safe. I bought a set of plans from John and I like them but I am not building a Harmon Rocket. I am a first time builder and I need all the help I can get. Van's will not support your decision or help you in any way if you are building a Rocket. Becides Van is a damn good designer of airplanes and if he feels that the Rocket design is potentally unsafe who am I to question the man who came up with the design in the first place. If you want the Harmon Rocket you can build it, thats up to you, just become as knowlageable as you can before making your decision. When I made my decision to build an RV I based it on alot of factors. The big one was the number completed and the number completed by first time builders. Vans has over 1000 of his airplanes in the air and most by first time builders. Harmon has a few airplanes in the air and I don't believe any are by first time builders. I am not trying to discorage you I just want you to be aware of these things so you don't end up with a partially completed kit with no one to help you or worse yet a completed airplane that is unsafe. John Zidek KC area RV builder group pres. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 03, 1996
6A for 40$/hour wet >Would you like to fly a brand new RV6A with a 200HP fuel injected engine and >constant speed prop that can cruise at 210 MPH ? > > Good luck!!!! First I don't think you will cruise at 210 mph without burning alllloooottt of fuel. Second, RV's are so much fun to fly that if you have 15 people when is anyone person going to get a chance to fly it? I have a 180 hp on my RV-6 and when I cruise at 180 mph I am burning 10 gph and if I push it up to 190 mph the fuel burn goes up dramatically of course I don't have a constant speed prop which may save you a part of a gal per hour. Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14,1989 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JZidek7003(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 03, 1996
Subject: Re: Twin Cities RV Forum
Doug Your RV gathering sounds great!! I have started a RV club in Kansas City and we are now 40+ members strong. I would be very interested in going to your event. I would not be able to fly my RV because it is only 50% completed. I started last Sept. If you could arrange for someone to pick me or a few of our members up and put us up in your home, shop whatever (I have found that sleeping is not an option when talking RV's) we would be more than happy to return the favor. John Zidek (913)491-2944 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Mar 03, 1996
Subject: Re: Harmon Rockets?
SNIP........ I am not trying to discorage you I just want you >to be aware of these things so you don't end up with a partially completed >kit with no one to help you or worse yet a completed airplane that is unsafe. > >John Zidek >KC area RV builder group pres. I too have been attracted to the rocket, but I have unanswered questions. I can see many positive things in it like, the smooth operation of the 6 cyl. engine, an engine that is reasonably cheap to buy (cores are cheaper than the high h.p. 4 bangers), great lines (I like the high turtledeck). However, owning a 180 h.p. 4 I've operated an RV around Van's suggested red line and I'm not sure I want or need to go much faster. At red line the controls tighten up and it "feels" like the airplane is at redline. There has been alot of discussion around these parts about higher H.P. engines on RV's and the deminishing returns you get. The thought is we have just about tapped out the efficiency of this wing design. I am sure the climbout is like an elevator ride, but is the climb capability worth the work and expense involved. I also take note of the lack of rollover protection. If you put it on its top, you are going to get real short in a hurry. If power alone was the answer they would have more engines on an F-16......how does it handle? Now if somebody would come up with a new wing..................... Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Mar 03, 1996
Subject: Re: AutoPilots
>SNIP>>>>> >>>Check the archive files. There has been much discussion on navaids and >>>other autopilots on the "list". Much of it recent. Ive had one flying in a >>>4 for 2 years. I like it. Details in the archive. >>> >>>Regards: >>>Rusty SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand that re-hashing >>old topics might be boring to us, but maybe there are a lot of new builders >>that could benifit from a fresh discussion. I don't know, what's the best >>way to handle this? (The above discussion doesn't apply to primers, >>however. We definately must send them to the archives, right? :) ) > OK OK I suggested the archive as there was alot of detailed discussion on autopilots recently. I don't mind doing it again...... it's a good thing I fly better than I type. I've had a Navaid flying for about 18 months (put it in after my 4 was flying). It has worked fine. I have it coupled to a KX 155 and a handheld Garmin 95xl through a Porcine "Smart coupler". It tracks well in my airplane and has never shown any signs of "snatch". You must, repeat MUST, follow the installation instructions exactly. They are very specific on adjustments of the pots on the servo and the head. I cheated and had the resident electronics wiz on our field help me. He works cheap.... likes to ride in RV's. The servo in my 4 is under the floor behind the right aileron push tube. Servo ties to a saddle bracket on the main control tube. You will have to remake the control arm on the servo as it is not long enough to give full travel. Be sure to hook up the transmit disconnect as I think some people experience RF problems if they don't. This unit works as good as any single axis a/p I've used. Want to know anything else, I'll try to answer. Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 03, 1996
Subject: Re: Harmon Rockets?
Ed Bundy writes the cruise of the HR2 as being ~20mph faster the a -4. It's more like 30-35 mph, and it does this on 11 gph. INDICATED airspeed is less that an RV's Vne, TRUE airspeed is way up, tho. I've seen 197mph indicated @10,000 msl, w/ 50 deg F OAT. My whiz wheel says this is 235 mph. Zoom. Handling characteristics are the same as the RV's, but different- feels bigger somehow, with more stability, I'd say. Probably due to the wing loading. Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 03, 1996
Subject: Re: Electrical Wiring
>Ed, The MX-11 Comm Radio has the wiring diag. for the plug in it. Even I >did it (I'm told my soldering looks like dirt daubbers did the job). I also Yes, you're correct. I should have specified that the xpdr didn't come with any wiring diagram. There are a couple of things I don't understand on the MX-11 diagram. The dotted line that goes from #4(mic-key) to #9(mic audio) - does this represent the PTT switch? Does this also connect somehow with #5(spkr)? Can you just omit the speaker altogether, or do you need some sort of load on that line? What is #11(mic - hot) for? Why is there a 1.5k resistor across the aux audio & audio out lines? Any comments would be appreciated. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1996
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: Re: N-Number reservation
You wrote: > >Can you pass on the phone numbers in Okc. City to call? > >Thanks, > >Howard Kidwell >howardrv(at)a0l.com > FAA Civil Aviation Registry P.O. Box 25504 Oklahoma City, OK 73125-0504 405-954-3116 Bill Costello -- ___ _______________________ \ \ _ _ / / \ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello \ X-*#####*******......./ Chicago / o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on emp. \ \__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com / \______________________\ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1996
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: N-number Request Info
Hi Folks, I tried to post this before, but think it went south, so here goes again. These are the people you reserve an N-number with: FAA Civil Aviation Registry P.O. Box 25504 Oklahoma City, OK 73125-0504 405-954-3116 Bill -- ___ _______________________ \ \ _ _ / / \ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello \ X-*#####*******......./ Chicago / o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on emp. \ \__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com / \______________________\ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1996
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: Wierd request
Hi Folks, The thing I do in between waiting to win the lottery and building my RV-6 is train business people how to use PC application software products. I train most of the word proc, spreadsheets, database mgrs, etc, but am just starting to learn MS Project. If anyone just might happen to have a machine readable version of their construction project (RV-6 preferred) in terms of tasks and time on task that they wouldn't mind sharing, I would love to have it. I would take a shot at computerizing it so that Gantt and PERT charts could be drawn. If I come up with anything good, I would make it available to the list for future builders. Just a wild thought. I really don't expect it to be available and CERTAINLY am not asking anyone to type up their construction notes with tasks and times. Best regards, Bill -- ___ _______________________ \ \ _ _ / / \ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello \ X-*#####*******......./ Chicago / o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on emp. \ \__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com / \______________________\ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1996
From: Jim Ayers <102337.2252(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Harmon Rockets?
>Mark said, >Ed Bundy writes the cruise of the HR2 as being ~20mph faster the a -4. It's >more like 30-35 mph, and it does this on 11 gph. INDICATED airspeed is less >that an RV's Vne, TRUE airspeed is way up, tho. I've seen 197mph indicated >@10,000 msl, w/ 50 deg F OAT. My whiz wheel says this is 235 mph. Zoom. > Handling characteristics are the same as the RV's, but different- feels >bigger somehow, with more stability, I'd say. Probably due to the wing >loading. Last year at the RV get-together in Bakersfield on the Merced Fly-in weekend, I ran into John Harmon at the restaurant. He said he burns 22 GPH at 240 mph INDICATED. Different altitudes, different power settings, different fuel flows. Jim Ayers LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder 102337.2252(at)compuserve.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 03, 1996
Subject: Re: Harmon Rockets?
>Ed Bundy writes the cruise of the HR2 as being ~20mph faster the a -4. It's >more like 30-35 mph, and it does this on 11 gph. INDICATED airspeed is less As far as the speed, I stand corrected. I did say I *thought* it was around 20. However, you'll have to enlighten me as to how an IO-540 (250-300hp) engine will cruise on 11gph. According to the POH, the 0-470 in a C-182 (230hp) burns 14gph at 75%. >that an RV's Vne, TRUE airspeed is way up, tho. I've seen 197mph indicated >@10,000 msl, w/ 50 deg F OAT. My whiz wheel says this is 235 mph. Zoom. That is indeed impressive. Is this your airplane? Is your IAS callibrated? With all due respect, I feel something isn't right here. 235 TAS on 11gph sounds a little wishfull to me. -- Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Mumert" <Dave.Mumert(at)cadvision.com>
Date: Mar 03, 1996
Subject: Re: Wierd request
> Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 08:00:07 -0800 > From: ix.netcom.com!bcos(at)matronics.com (William Costello ) > Subject: RV-List: Wierd request > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Reply-to: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Hi Folks, > >clip > If anyone just might happen to have a machine readable version of their > construction project (RV-6 preferred) in terms of tasks and time on > task that they wouldn't mind sharing, I would love to have it. > >clip This is a GREAT idea. I will certainly try to keep track of my time when I finally get started later this year. This would be great to help potential builders estimate and understand the builing times required. I just received the latest copy of MS Project from MS. Perhaps list members could set up a standard list of tasks. Dave Waiting for tax refund so I can buy tools and Tail kit. Dave Mumert dmumert(at)softnc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: Wierd request
>Hi Folks, > >The thing I do in between waiting to win the lottery and building my >RV-6 is train business people how to use PC application software >products. I train most of the word proc, spreadsheets, database mgrs, >etc, but am just starting to learn MS Project. > >If anyone just might happen to have a machine readable version of their >construction project (RV-6 preferred) in terms of tasks and time on >task that they wouldn't mind sharing, I would love to have it. > >I would take a shot at computerizing it so that Gantt and PERT charts >could be drawn. If I come up with anything good, I would make it >available to the list for future builders. > >Just a wild thought. I really don't expect it to be available and >CERTAINLY am not asking anyone to type up their construction notes with >tasks and times. > >Best regards, > >Bill >-- > > ___ _______________________ > \ \ _ _ / / > \ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello \ > X-*#####*******......./ Chicago / > o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on emp. \ > \__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com / > \______________________\ > Bill, I seem to remember seeing something like that in one of the Midwest RV newsletters. Someone had kept track of their build times in very good detail. I published it in our Puget Sound RVator and I'll look back through the files and see if I can find it. John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: frankv(at)pec.co.nz
Date: Mar 04, 1996
Subject: Re: Yaw String
In <1.5.4b11.32.19960303030450.0067e690@our-town.com>, on 03/02/96 at 09:04 PM, John Darby said: >Howard, It started in the F-80 or before, it helped much in gunnery, >eye on the pipper and the string insight. I even had it on the 84 and >F-4. Been thinking of it on the RV, don't know what the prop does to >it. I've seen it on at least one RV but didn't get to talk to the >owner. A yaw string is standard equipment on a glider. I'd be surprised if it was any use on an RV, since the prop-wash would be much more significant than the slipstream. It would probably work OK on a pusher or twin. Maybe they have them on F-18s? :-) -- ----------------------------------------------------------- frankv(at)pec.co.nz ----------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1996
From: J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough)
Subject: RVLIST Headers
I don't wann tie up the list with administration stuff, but... All my mail from the rv list is arriving with the header information at the beginning instead of the end as it previously was, making it a real pain to find the message content. Is anyone else seeing the same or could it be at my end......Matt? Ken RV6a -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Sent via ExpressNet/SMTP(tm), Internet Gateway of the Gods! ExpressNet/SMTP (c)1994-95 Delphic Software, Inc. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1996
From: Stuart Fraley <swfraley(at)alpha.comsource.net>
Subject: New Member, Introduction
To the List, I've just resumed work on my RV-6 tail kit after letting it lie dormant for several months (new baby, etc.) I'd be real interested in seeing other projects within a couple-hundred miles of Evansville, Indiana. Also, is there an RV Forum and/or Dinner at Sun-n-Fun this year? Stuart Fraley Cheetah in the Hangar RV-6A in the Garage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mbaker(at)gate.net
Subject: Re: New Member, Introduction
Date: Mar 03, 1996
> > Also, is there an RV Forum and/or Dinner at Sun-n-Fun this year? > > Stuart Fraley > Cheetah in the Hangar ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > RV-6A in the Garage > I resemble that! N9856U was the first airplane to fly using hydrogen as fuel. 1976 Cheetah 1812TT, 160hp. I've just started on the RV6A - I have the horizontal stab spar drilled and am deburring it. Primer tomorrow if I can find some Variprime and get to Home Depot to buy a respirator. Mickey Baker | Sage Research Corporation mbaker(at)gate.net | Pompano Beach, FL KC4ZU PP-ASEL-IA Cheetah N9856U | (305)785-2354 "Men should pause for ONE MOMENT and take another LONG LOOK at the very thing that brings meaning to their meaningless lives." -B. Breathed ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1996
From: Rick Osgood <74774.54(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: RV6A tail light
I am just finishing up the tail kit for my RV6A and I am now at the point to consider a tail light. I would appreciate any thoughts on what type of light to use, how to mount it, when to mount it, etc. Thanks to all in advance. Rick in inhumanly cold Minnesota ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BPattonsoa(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 03, 1996
Subject: Re: Yaw String
Yaw String .. the ultimate source of humility for glider pilots. All gliders use a simple piece of yarn on the nose for yaw. With between 50 and 84 feet of wing, adverse yaw is not as theoretical as with their noisy brethern. You can judge the honesy of a glider type by asking if the yawstring is straight all the time. If your yawstring stays straight, you can bet someone glued it down. You can also remove a person from a competition by sneaking their yaw string off before launch. They are not flyable without it. Will not work too well behind a prop. I suspect that Van, since he does gliders for recreation, appreciates the simplicity. Bruce Patton Putting on the tail feathers ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HowardRV(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 03, 1996
Subject: RV Kits, etc for Sale
The following is offered for sale by a friend of mine in Austin, Texas: Orndorff Tapes Basic Sheet Metal-$5.00 Tail Kit----------$20.00 Wing Kit---------$25.00 Fues Kit---------$25.00 All for-----------$60.00 Tail Kit for RV-6/6A--$500 Wing Kit for RV-6/6A $2,700 Avery's Deluxe Tool Kit-$750 Other misc tools and machines available ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: RV6A tail light
>I am just finishing up the tail kit for my RV6A and I am now at the point to >consider a tail light. >I would appreciate any thoughts on what type of light to use, how to mount it, >when to mount it, etc. > >Thanks to all in advance. > > >Rick in inhumanly cold Minnesota Rick: On my first RV, the molded bump that is to receive the tail light was not a good fit from the factory. I ended up making a new "bulge", a real pain. On the RV I'm building now, I'm going with the 3 position wing tip strobe, nav & tail. This saves: re-building the mounting location, stringing wire aft and figuring how to route it through the tail and adding undesirable weight aft. I'm sure Van's would exchange your rudder bottom for one made without provisions for a tail light if you choose to do this. Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1996
From: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com (Doug Weiler)
Subject: Re: RV6A tail light
>I am just finishing up the tail kit for my RV6A and I am now at the point to >consider a tail light. >I would appreciate any thoughts on what type of light to use, how to mount it, >when to mount it, etc. > >Thanks to all in advance. > > >Rick in inhumanly cold Minnesota Rick, If I had it to do over again, I would plan on using the Whelen wing tips strobes with the built-in rear facing white nav light. Van will exchange the bottom rudder fiberglas piece for one without the light fairing. Installing the normal white nav light in the rudder was a pain, but it can be down. I have a short article from the Portland Builder's Group on installing a tail light in the rudder if you decide to go that route. Let me know and I'll send you a copy. Doug -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= = Doug Weiler, pres. MN Wing, Van's AirForce, RV-4 in progress, N722DW = 347 Krattley Lane = Hudson, WI 54016 = 715-386-1239 = email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1996
From: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com (Doug Weiler)
Subject: Re: Twin Cities RV Forum
>Doug > Your RV gathering sounds great!! I have started a RV club in Kansas City >and we are now 40+ members strong. I would be very interested in going to >your event. I would not be able to fly my RV because it is only 50% >completed. I started last Sept. If you could arrange for someone to pick me >or a few of our members up and put us up in your home, shop whatever (I have >found that sleeping is not an option when talking RV's) we would be more than >happy to return the favor. > >John Zidek >(913)491-2944 John: Why don't you send me your address to the e-mail below and I'll send you a copy of our newsletter which has all the info regarding the Forum. If I can get an idea of how many may come from your area, we should be able to work something regarding transportation and possibly lodging. Regardless there are many local hotels as well. We'd look forward to having you come. We are hoping for a very interesting and informative Forum. Doug -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= = Doug Weiler, pres. MN Wing, Van's AirForce, RV-4 in progress, N722DW = 347 Krattley Lane = Hudson, WI 54016 = 715-386-1239 = email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com>
Date: Mar 03, 1996
Subject: Re: N-Number reservation
> Can you pass on the phone numbers in Okc. City to call? > > Thanks, > > Howard Kidwell > howardrv(at)a0l.com I'll post it tomorrow from the office (I don't have it here) unless someone beats me to it. B F Gibbons RV-6 (first wing) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: MX-11 Comm Radio wiring
To the rvlisters. This is a long message and pertains only to the MX-11 comm radio. Sorry it's so long, but I'm not sure how to enter Eds' personnal e-mail add. (does the aol.com go just as part of it?) Ed, I have a schem. that GCA modified and sent me. It is for connecting the MX-11 to the GCA-400 intercomm. With that in mind, I'll attempt to answer what I can. >There are a couple of things I don't understand on the MX-11 diagram. There is nothing on it I understand, I just hooked it up.:<) >The dotted line that goes from #4(mic-key) to #9(mic audio) - does this represent the PTT switch? Yes, if you have that type. And it is tied in with the speaker (to cut it off when you transmx so it will not give feed back squeellllllll) IF you have a cabin speaker. I don't, so that doesn't apply. >Does this also connect somehow with #5(spkr)? See above regd speaker. >Can you just omit the speaker altogether, or do you need some sort of load on that line? Yes and no.(Yes omit the spkr, no, you don't need a load) > What is #11(mic - hot) for? I was told, if my memory serves me well, that it is for a hot mike, through a sw that would select hot vs ppt. >Why is there a 1.5k resistor across the aux audio & audio out lines? Now you're getting technical on me. The only reason I can give is that the maker of the radio says put it there, and I ain't being a wize-a%%, I just don't know. The people at GCA were kind enough to send me a modified wiring diagram. What he (Burt) did was to cover up the company diagram to the right of the boxed list that you are most likely using, and he wrote in stuff. I will list below what the box has, and to the right what Burt put in. POWER -GND 1 to ground. MIC-GND 2 to shield common or pin 15 of GCA400 PHONES 3 to Pin 13 of GCA400 MIC-KEY 4 to pin 5 of GCA400 SPEAKER 5 n/c (I took this as not connected, jcd) 6 AUX AUD 7 diag sym with the 1.5k resist to item 8 AUDIO OUT 8 " " " " " " " " 7 MIC AUDIO 9 to pin 12 of GCA400 28VDC 10 nothing entered MIC (hot) 11 nothing entered 12 14VDC 13 a line to join line from #14 14VDC 14 a line to join line from #13, then to 7.5amps c/b, then to 14vdc a/c power or switch. POWER-GND 15 symbol to ground. Hope I didn't tell you how to build a watch when you just asked for the time, but it is the info that I have. I did sweat blood over this stuff. Burt at GCA also wrote in the following: "When I wired the harness, I put a diode on the mic key line at the MX-11 (pin 4) to isolate the mic audio circuit from the intercomm. All jacks are grounded to pin 15 at the Intercomm via the shields." I don't know any thing about diodes, what volts, watts, micro-farrads, etc. Maybe Bob Nuckolls could answer that. For what it's worth, I have had great success with the radio. I have the coat hanger ant in my right tip, and talk up to at least 125 miles with it. Incidentally, don't have power on and push the tmx button with the ant disconn. It drops the radio off as if its blown. Scared the devil out of me, thought I had burned it out. Turn it off and back on and it's OK. If I can help any more, don't hesitate to jog me. John D. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 03, 1996
Subject: Harmon speed thing...
Wellllll,... I sure don't want to start a flame war over whose a/c does what, but... The bird I was in is my customers, which is pictured in Hovan's home page, and it is equipped with a 250 hp version of the 540. It also has the "J" blade prop, which is used on the Glasair 3. Lotsa twist, very wide chord blades. I fitted some good "looking" root fairings, slick value unknown, and it has wheel pants same as Jon Sharp's "Nemesis". Lotsa speed stuff, but what does that mean? I saw 10.5 gph on the flowmeter, 20.5" mp (WOT), 2300rpm, 197mph. Calibrated airspeed? Not a chance. A local ex-mil fella flew next to me later in his -3, and gave me the calibrations to 200 mph (184 ind, in my bird). He swears his calibrations are on the money, so I guess I'm basing this data on his word.... My Lycoming manual, pg. 3-33, says the 540C will burn down to 8.5 gph @ 1800 rpm. Power output at this setting is approx. 110 hp. The chart bottoms out there. Insert disclaimer of your choice here..... I don't claim to know a lot about high altitude flying, but it seems to me that if you can maintain power to a higher altitude, you'll go a lot faster, but indicate the same. The power chart says my engine was putting out about 135 hp/52% at that altitude. Chart interpolation is not one of my strong points. Sounds about right, for the flow, don't you think? The same power setting down low shows the same indicated airspeed, so what is the conclusion? How fast does a -4 go on 10.5 gph? I'll bet it's about the same (197 mph), or a bit faster, due to less weight. Problem is, you can't get the engine to burn that much at altitude, due to the power loss from lack of air density. That's the reason for turbo's on smaller engines, or more simple bigger engines, both suck gas at low altitudes to go fast, or go fast at higher altitudes on the same fuel flow as their less powerful brothers (more available power). Different opinions welcome- Or, come get a ride and I'll show you! Check Six! Mark mlfred(at)aol.com 512-918-8582 days ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1996
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com>
Subject: Re: Need for Flaring tool
On Sat, 2 Mar 1996, bill garrett wrote: > I'm getting together an order for some things to build the RV and was > wondering whether I need a 37 degree flaring tool. The thing seems > expensive for the number of times I would think I'd use it. Do most of you > own them or are you generally able to share with someone nearby who has one? > If you own them, any suggestions as to which one to buy (the two I see > advertised are Parker and Imperial Eastman)? I bought one because the nearest loaner was across town. I think the Parker is the one to get. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: RV-6 Cabin heat
I finally got a chance to test out the Vetterman SS cross-over exhaust system with two heat muffs, hooked in series. The temp was 9 to 15 degrees. The heater seemed to be putting out adequate heat. However, the cold air infiltrating lessened the effect. I have an air leak between the tilt-up canopy and the forward skin on the pilot side. I forgot to seal the notches that are cut in the bulkhead just forward of the hinge point. The largest volumn of air is coming through the flap arm slots in the 605 bulkhead. I intend to make little booties similar to those on the control sticks to help control these leaks. I plugged in my engine heater and a little ceramic heater in the empty baggage compartent into an automatic timer and after three hours, things were really toasty. The heater in the cockpit helps warm the battery and gyros and makes the seat cushions a little more comfortable. Speaking of cushions, I'm not going to use the three density Temperfoam again. I think I'll try the cheaper and a little less dense and lighter "Sunmate". I didn't find the Temperfoam to be as comfortable as I expected. My oil temperature never got over 130 degrees, this with my cooler door completely closed. On the trip out (9 degrees), I blocked the inlet area with duct tape, reducing the inlet area by 1/2. On initial climb out, I thought that I would have to turn back and land as cylinder head temps approached 425 degrees. As soon as I leveled off, the temps dropped to 350-375. On the trip back, without duct tape (15 degrees), the CHT's ran at 250-275. I think I'll look into some cowl flaps before next winter. They should be a little easier to fit with only two pipes exiting the cowl. Does anyone have any ideas on using a MAC servo for activating the cowl flap as opposed to a linkage that would have to be disconnected. An electrical plug would be a little more convenient. Would the MAC servo stand up to the heat? Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1996
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: Re: RV6A tail light
>Rick, > >If I had it to do over again, I would plan on using the Whelen wing >tips strobes with the built-in rear facing white nav light. Van will >exchange the bottom rudder fiberglas piece for one without the light >fairing. Installing the normal white nav light in the rudder was a >pain, but it can be down. I have a short article from the Portland >Builder's Group on installing a tail light in the rudder if you decide >to go that route. Let me know and I'll send you a copy. > >Doug > Hi Doug, Both you and Bob Skinner said that you would use the wingtip strobes with the rear facing white lights. Do these give as good visibility as the tail light, do you know? I have not finished the bottom of my RV-6 rudder and would like to minimize the weight and complexity, so I might call Van and see if they will switch rudder bottoms. Also, does anyone have any experience with other sources of wingtip lights that are less expensive than the Whelan's, but 'almost' as good. Or is this another area where it doesn't make any sense to go with anything but the best? Thanks and best regards, Bill -- ___ _______________________ \ \ _ _ / / \ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello \ X-*#####*******......./ Chicago / o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on emp. \ \__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com / \______________________\ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1996
From: Bob Japundza <bob(at)pop.holli.com>
Subject: Re: New Member, Introduction
Stuart Fraley wrote: > > To the List, > > I've just resumed work on my RV-6 tail kit after letting it lie dormant for > several months (new baby, etc.) I'd be real interested in seeing other > projects within a couple-hundred miles of Evansville, Indiana. > > Also, is there an RV Forum and/or Dinner at Sun-n-Fun this year? > > Stuart Fraley > Cheetah in the Hangar > RV-6A in the Garage Talk to Mike Wonder (812) 384-9016. He is the Indiana RV-guru, and he builds RV's full time. His hangar is located on a strip west of Bloomfield, In., and he is usually there 7 days a week. He loves to talk! Also has a Harmon Rocket almost ready for its first flight. Not more than a 15 min. flight from Evansville. Tell him Bob sent you. Bob Japundza Kokomo, IN RV-6 on gear ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: RV6A tail light
Bill, Gordan Winfield used truck running lights. The ones he got are about 1x2-3 inchs (rect. shaped). They come with either red, green, amber, clear, or blue lens. They are about 1 inch high. At some time in the past, J C Whitney had them for about $2.00/3.00 each. Gordan used Vans front wing tip clear plastic enclosure and mounted these lights inside on the bulkhead. He has had his flying 6 months longer than mine and no problems. I think the tail is built up to fit this rect. shape, but is actually as, if not more, streamlined than the orig. As to the flashers, J C Whitney had a self contained unit, about 3x3x1.25 that flashes 120 times per minute. One of those on top and one on bottom should do it. I haven't tried one, but I think they would fit in the wingtip clear lens that Vans sells (but maynot be vis. from rear). When building, I was under the impression that we had to use a/c stuff for this. Tain't so. It's the light coverage that is required. After seeing Gordons, and thinking back to those prices on whelans that I enclosed in the Vans wing tip, I was sick in the wallet. The whelan flasher I put on is heavy, not as bright as the JCW, and dang sure more expensive. I believe the JCW is about 25.00. If I had it to do over, I would go that way. Put one of those little flat dudes on top, bhind the canopy and another on bottom under the cockpit, then the normal location for the wing tip and tail. At Dallas Air Salvage, just the lens cover for the tip lights etc were selling for $35.00 each!!! As for landing lights, I used the DuckWorks. It has a light from JCW in it, has worked fine for me, still has the orig bulb in it. Don't mean to open up the bulb test thing again etc. Hope this helps, or at least adds options for you to consider. John D RV6 completed. >Also, does anyone have any experience with other sources of wingtip >lights that are less expensive than the Whelan's, but 'almost' as good. > Or is this another area where it doesn't make any sense to go with >anything but the best? > >Thanks and best regards, > >Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com>
Date: Mar 04, 1996
Subject: Spring back dimple dies
Has anyone used the "spring back" dimple dies from Avery? Is there really any difference in the dimple these dies make (are they worth $26)? B F Gibbons RV-6 (first wing) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com>
Date: Mar 04, 1996
Subject: Wiring in wings
I'm to the point where I'd like to order the wire to run through the conduit in my wings. I'm not sure what gauge / type to order. I want to run wire for 1) landing light; 2) position light; 3) strobe light (power pack for strobe in the wing tip). Any advice? B F Gibbons RV-6 (first wing) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com>
Date: Mar 04, 1996
Subject: Re: RV6A tail light
> I am just finishing up the tail kit for my RV6A and I am now at the point to > consider a tail light. > I would appreciate any thoughts on what type of light to use, how to mount it, > when to mount it, etc. > Rick, I'm still trying to figure out what to do here. I purchased the combo white tail light and strobe to put in rudder fairing, but it doesn't fit well. The blister in the fiberglass is simply not large enough and not exactly the right shape. The only way I can see to make it work correctly is to cut out the offending part and make a new one. I've got a glass expert in the hangar with me but still, I'm not excited by this prospect. I could put lights in the wing tips which have the white position lights in them, but I'm not crazy about the look of this configuration. I'm planning landing lights in the wing tips with position/strobe combos behind the plexiglass. Very clean looking I think. My question is, if the lights simply don't fit the fiberglass why doesn't Van make the supplier change it??? I thought mine was a fluke but apparently no one's really fits well (just look at some of the bondo used for this application next time you walk a line of RV's). Does anyone know of a practical solution? B F Gibbons RV-6 (first wing) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1996
From: klgray(at)bihs.net (Ken Gray)
Subject: Update and Question
Just to update everyone on my RV-6. The FAA came back out to reissue the AW certificate last tuesday, I have been giving rides all weekend. With the Houston FSDO, they only give you a VFR day AW cert. at the start and must come back to give you another one and they make the log book entry. Any way the flight testing went great, I had my tack quit, did a little squeezing on the ailerons, put a trim tab on the rudder and that was it! With no wheel pants and gear leg fairings on, I can get 170mph on 75% power, using O320 E2D 150 HP and a 70 X 70 Warnke Prop. I did the basic aerobatics; spins, rolls, loops, 1/2 loops, 1/2 cuban eights. This was enough for me. My question is; how do you jack up the plane to change tires after the wheel pants and gear fairings are on? I understand taking off the wheel pants, but the leg fairings I will be using are not removeable and puting a pipe into the center of the axle will work for the removal process but not the reinstall and adjusting of the axle nut. WHAT A GREAT PLANE, keep on building, it is worth it! Ken Gray RV-6 N69KG, first flight 1/12/96 45 hours to date! SN 23069 Two years and Two months, 2100 hours building time. klgray(at)bihs.net (409) 776 3033 home (409) 775 4305 work Bryan, Tx. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1996
From: Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com>
Subject: Re: Need for Flaring tool
I bought one from Cleveland, Imperial Eastman; it works great and I even used it on the few 1/8" copper lines even thought it's not made for these. One of the main reasons for building an RV is so I can do my own maintance and feel having the necessary tools is just part of it. I don't like borrowning tools but would pay a shop to flare the tubing if I didn't have the tool myself; think that would be cheaper? Dan Boudro RV-4 N9167Z On Sat, 2 Mar 1996, bill garrett wrote: > Hi everyone- > > I'm getting together an order for some things to build the RV and was > wondering whether I need a 37 degree flaring tool. The thing seems > expensive for the number of times I would think I'd use it. Do most of you > own them or are you generally able to share with someone nearby who has one? > If you own them, any suggestions as to which one to buy (the two I see > advertised are Parker and Imperial Eastman)? > > Thanks for any and all responses. > > Bill > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1996
From: "Gene Gottschalk (286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: SUN 'N FUN
>Is there >>one this year and how do we get our names on the list to attend? Cathy, Just stop by Van's booth and sign up. Do it early in the week to be sure you get a spot. See ya there. -Gene ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ^ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Gene Gottschalk |N| e-mail : geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov~ ~ Goddard Space Flight Center |A| [128.183.166.137] ~ ~ Code 540/505, Hughes STX |S| Telephone : (301) 286-0708 ~ ~ Greenbelt, MD 20771 |A| FAX : (301) 286-0270 ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ^ ^ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Radio wiring MX-11
Ed, In my long letter about wiring, I got concerned with the length of my southern drawl and left something out. Bart at GCA also sent me an illust. of the phone & mike jacks. It includes a fiber washer with a shoulder on it. It goes in the hole that you drill to install the jacks, the shoulder actually fits in the hole and then the jack goes through the washer, then there is a flat fiber washer on the other side. What this does is insulat , from sides and in the hole, the jack stem from the panel it's mounted through. The diagram shows the mike as a must, but Bart suggested that both be done this way. This may have been the cause of the squeal that I had. Nothing else I had read showed this, and none of the parts cat. had them. GCA sent them to me when they bench checked my radio/harness. I previously expressed alarm at the cost vs work done on my harness by GCA. Let me set something straight. They had told me what the cost would be, I agreed to it. It was just that so little was done to the harness. I am pleased with the telephone and bench help that GCA gave me. If I buy again, I will buy from them because of the after market support they gave me. They stayed with me. John D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 04, 1996
Subject: wiring
>Hope I didn't tell you how to build a watch when you just asked for the >time, but it is the info that I have. I did sweat blood over this stuff. Not at all! Thanks for taking the time to send me such a detailed reply John. It should make things a lot easier. Especially the "blown" radio part. :) What is the "wire coat hangar" antenna? Has anyone used the windscreen tape antenna? -- Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 04, 1996
Subject: Re: RV6A tail light
>I am just finishing up the tail kit for my RV6A and I am now at the point to >consider a tail light. >I would appreciate any thoughts on what type of light to use, how to mount >it, >when to mount it, etc. > The standard (Whelen?) light that Van sells works well. Bear in mind however, that if you plan a lightweight engine setup, especially a wood prop, you might be better off leaving the extra weight out of the extreme aft point on the fuselage. That light and the wire will rob you of something like 2-4 pounds of baggage capability CG-wise. That may or may not be a big deal to you. I'm going to use the wing tip lights that have the aft-facing white light to avoid the problem. -- Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1996
From: Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Spring back dimple dies
I assume that these are to reduce the little depresion that sometimes surrounds a dimple. I have found that the standard dies will make a perfec dimple without any distortion around the hole. The trick is to not try and make the dimple in one wack. I dimple each hole with 4 smaller wacks with a 16 Oz. hammer. You can tell when the dimple is complete, the sound will change to a more solid sound. Over dimpeling can cause the same depression by stretching the material. Propper dimples are a real art and if you want good results you should practice on some scrap material to get the feel of what works before you start on the real thing. All of ther above assumes the use of the Avery "C" tool. Chris > > Has anyone used the "spring back" dimple dies from Avery? Is there > really any difference in the dimple these dies make (are they worth > $26)? > B F Gibbons > RV-6 (first wing) > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rolf Hankers" <ROLF(at)abraham.iff.ing.tu-bs.de>
Date: Mar 04, 1996
Subject: Re: Spin Question
hey, I mentioned the height loss during spins in a previous mail. To sum it up: the altitude loss during spinning ist approx. 400 to 500 ft for every revolution; this is much more than with a Cessna 150. With a spinning time of ca. 2 seconds for every round there is a vertical speed of 12000 to 15000 ft/min. The RV-4 ist spinning quite fast and requires positiv anti-spin-inputs to stop the spin. To the qualification of the pilots: most spin tests were performed from a member of the German aerobatic team and a participant of the world aerobatics championship; so I am shure he can recognize the difference between a spin and a spiral. (By the way: you can not fly a death spiral with the nose pointing downwards for 8 rounds without exceeding by far the red line speed) Rolf Hankers RV-4 1880 (flying) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1996
From: David Riehl <driehl(at)cycor.ca>
Subject: Re: Harmon Rocket
>Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 09:09:43 -0400 >To: sburch(at)Infi.Net (stan burchett) >From: David Riehl <driehl(at)bud.peinet.pe.ca> >Subject: Re: Harmon Rocket >X-Attachments: D:\DAVID\AVIATION\W&B\Rocketii.wk4; > >>Those of us contemplating the Rocket mod will appreciate any data you & >>brother can post on the RV list, following flight testing. in the mean >>time..your weight and balance numbers would be of interest? Thanks..and >>have a good flight! >> >> Stan from Yorktown, VA >> >> >> >> > >Stan, as per your request. > >I have attached a Lotus 123r5 spreadsheet on the W&B info. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
Subject: Re: RV Kits, etc for Sale
Date: Mar 04, 1996
I would like to by all the tapes for 60.00. Herman Dierks 838-2831 wk or 255-0265 home > The following is offered for sale by a friend of mine in Austin, Texas: > > Orndorff Tapes > Basic Sheet Metal-$5.00 > Tail Kit----------$20.00 > Wing Kit---------$25.00 > Fues Kit---------$25.00 > All for-----------$60.00 > > Tail Kit for RV-6/6A--$500 > Wing Kit for RV-6/6A $2,700 > Avery's Deluxe Tool Kit-$750 > Other misc tools and machines available > > Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831 MS: 9530 fax: 512-838-1801 mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1996
From: "Steve Day" <sday(at)pharmcomp.com>
Subject: Re: Spring back dimple dies
>Has anyone used the "spring back" dimple dies from Avery? Is there >really any difference in the dimple these dies make (are they worth >$26)? If you are talking about the spring set you can buy for their big 'C' tool, I love it. It speeds up the process and lowers the blood pressure. I was always worried about dragging the tool across the skins, now it pops up and stays out of the way as I slide the skin to the next hole. If you are talking about a different set of actual dies, I don't know. -Steve Day sday(at)pharmcomp.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 04, 1996
Subject: Re: Electrical Wiring
>>usually very specific to the radios you choose. remember to purchase or have >>supplied that wiring data when you buy your radios if you plan on doing the >>wiring yourself. > >Where can this data be obtained? I just bought a TKM comm and a Narco xpdr >and the "manual" that came with them is just an operation manual for an end >user. The info makes it sound like they don't want anyone but an avionics >tech touching those colored spaghetti things in the back. > >-- Ed Bundy > > Ed: Be sure to ask for the installation data when you order the radios. If the wholesale house can't supply that data, chum up to your local avionics shop guy and get him to make copies of the installation wiring data. Even with that data, it does take a bit of knowledge to complete you installation. If you don't have that background, or feel that you aren't up to it, then get the aid of somebody who does. Or have a avionics shop do the work. If not installed properly, it will cost you bigger dollars to repair it later. Be sure that the proper crimping tools are used, nomatter who does the job. Loose wires later on, or broken wires, will leave you pulling your hair out. Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 04, 1996
Subject: Re: SUN 'N FUN
>Enough about Oshkosh! My husband Dale & I are planning on >visiting Sun N Fun next month. We were there two years ago and >found it was much smaller and not so overwhelming as Oshkosh. >Got lots of pictures of RVs and had a great time talking to the >owners. We found out after the fact when we were that there had >been an RV banquet with Van's people in attendance. Is there >one this year and how do we get our names on the list to attend? > >See you at Sun 'N Fun > >Cathy & Dale Lamport >Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario, Canada >SN 23861 >Tail & Wings finished > >P.S. I guess we will have to unsubscribe when we are away or our >computer will burst from all the RV messages. Call Van's for reservations and/or tickets. There is a dinner every year. See you There...... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Mar 04, 1996
Subject: Re: RV6A tail light
>Also, does anyone have any experience with other sources of wingtip >lights that are less expensive than the Whelan's, but 'almost' as good. > Or is this another area where it doesn't make any sense to go with >anything but the best? > >Thanks and best regards, > >Bill Bill: One thing I noticed soon after I got my 4 flying was how hard it was for people to see me. I have whelan's tip and tail strobes and tip landing lights. When I'm comming in or taking off I run everything I've got. I don't want to be a smudge on someones windscreen. There are too many people that are not looking for tiny airplanes that go like hell. I guess what I'm trying to say is don't try to "just get by" on collision aviodance lights. As far as the tail light. It's a pain. I cut a 1/8 thick piece of alunminum the shape (sort of) the rudder bottom receptical then cut a hole in it the size of the light. Glassed that to the rudder bottom. Drilled and tapped it to accept the tail light. It's hard to explain but it looks good and it works. Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1996
From: Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA>
Subject: Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question
Just throwing my 2 cents in here. Being an electronic guy and having worked on VOR ground stations, I can tell you that the antenna feedline lengths on the GROUND STATIONS is *very* critical. This is because they use a phased-array antenna so they can rotate the radiation pattern. Of course, this does *not* apply to airborne VOR receivers but perhaps some kind of urban legend has developed which says not to modify ANY VOR antenna feedlines? There might be another explaination: My VOR theory is a little rusty, but don't they work by comparing the phase of a reference signal and a radial position signal? If these signals are at different RF carrier frequencies, and the RG-58 has a velocity characteristic which is frequency-dependant, then it may well be that the receiving antenna feedline is cut to a particular calibrated length. Changing that length will introduce phase-error into the two VOR signals, and, indeed uncalibrate your VOR. Just guessing, I'm probably wrong.- Curt Reimer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 04, 1996
Subject: Re: Removable panel?
I put the A/S, Autopilot, AI, DG, VSI & Alt. on a removable panel (about 9" X 13"), mounted on rubber shock mounts. With this pannel removed (in about 5 minutes) I have access to most everything behind the pannel. On the right side of my instrument stack I used Vision Microsystem guages which are very thin (3/4" or so) so I can reach behind them for access. All of my switches are mounted in a center console and my breakers for the radios are mounted on the lower portion of the pannel for easy access. All other breakers have easy access. Make some paper cutouts of the instruments that you intend to use, lay them on your pannel, and start to formulate the lay-out. Once you have some thing you like, start cutting (don't forget that there are minimum clearances between some instruments). I did mine on my computer and saved my work as a print file. I brought this to a printing shop and had a full scale drawing printed. I then layed this on top of my pannel and center-punched everything. I drilled my pilot holes and used some borrowed instrument punches. One shot, very easy (although the computer drawing changed about 100 times before I printed it). Think about it but don't get obsessive about it. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com>
Date: Mar 04, 1996
Subject: Re: Update and Question
> Just to update everyone on my RV-6. The FAA came back out to reissue the AW > certificate last tuesday, I have been giving rides all weekend. Ken, Congratulations!!!! B F Gibbons RV-6 (first wing) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1996
From: David Riehl <driehl(at)cycor.ca>
Subject: Re: Harmon Rocket
--=====================_825985650==_ >>Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 09:09:43 -0400 >>To: sburch(at)Infi.Net (stan burchett) >>From: David Riehl <driehl(at)bud.peinet.pe.ca> >>Subject: Re: Harmon Rocket >>X-Attachments: D:\DAVID\AVIATION\W&B\Rocketii.wk4; >> >>>Those of us contemplating the Rocket mod will appreciate any data you & >>>brother can post on the RV list, following flight testing. in the mean >>>time..your weight and balance numbers would be of interest? Thanks..and >>>have a good flight! >>> >>> Stan from Yorktown, VA >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>Stan, as per your request. >> >>I have attached a Lotus 123r5 spreadsheet on the W&B info. >> > > > 2nd try on attachment, sorry David ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1996
From: JIM SCHMIDT <JIM.SCHMIDT(at)mail.mei.com>
Subject: Bellcrank Installation -Reply
Amazing parallel thinking I did this 2 week ends ago. jim RV6 fitting aileron control rods >>> 03/02/96 09:31pm >>> Wow, I installed the first real control system in my 6A today. The Aileron bellcranks. I stood there marveling at how smooth they operated and imagined the ailerons responding to my every command as I moved the bellcrank back and forth. I have not had such vivid images since the day I mounted my elevators on the horz stab. Will this beast ever get done? Anyway, the reason for the post is share my experience in making the short little spacers for the belcrank from the 6061-T6 3/8 tube supplied for this purpose. The plans say the spacers are to be approximatly 7/16" in length and mine ended up being 0.430", or approximatly 7/16. Cutting the tube was no problem at all, the bandsaw did a great job. The problem was that I had cut the parts a little long (SOP) and planed to file or sand the pieces to the proper length. The parts are so small there was no way I could hold them up the the belt or disk sander to remove the remaing material (they got hot real fast) and filing was taking forever. The solution was to chuck the small tubes in my 3/8 drill and take them to the disk sander while the part was spinning in the drill chuck. This worked great. The ends of the tubes come out perfectly flat (perpendicular to the length) and due to the heat sink or rotation of the chuck (air motion) the parts when removed from the drill were not even warm. This was a very fast way of making the parts and they came out exactly the 0.430 inches that I needed. Gary Zilik RV-6A 22993 (cutting leading edge for Duck Works Landing Light) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Arrowbat(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 04, 1996
Subject: Gliders/Yaw String
Ditto that! Glider flying taught me how sloppy I had become after 200 hrs in spam can trikes....."hmmm - so THat's what those pedals are for!!" After numerous smacks in the back of the head (thanks to that !@#$%$ yaw string) I finally got my add-on rating in an SGS2-33 and am DEfinately a better all-around pilot now. Besides, its a BLast & I highly recommend it!!! And if you don't have any pilot certificates yet, I suggest you learn gliders FIRst....sure wish I had! Mike Calhoon RV6 #22991- doin' tanks (yek) :>{ getting Grob-103 checkout......YEEhaaaww!! P.S. I think Van (as with many of us) likes soaring because of the FREE lift !! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
Subject: Re: Spring back dimple dies (fwd)
Date: Mar 04, 1996
God, it is amaizing how these questions go off on a tangent. This question is NOT about the spring on the Avery C tool. The 'spring back dimple dies' are special made to dimple the skin just a little more than what is exactly true so that the material will spring back to the exact shape needed. Most dimple dies don't account for the fact that the aluminum springs back a little after you hit it with a hammer or squeze it with a squeezer. Therefore the skin is not exactly perfect after you dimple. The folks that invented the spring-back dies are seeking perfection in the dimpling process. I built my RV before these were invented. I bought a set a few months back but have not used them yet. Herman > From: "Steve Day" <pharmcomp.com!sday(at)matronics.com> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Spring back dimple dies > Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com > Precedence: junk > Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > >Has anyone used the "spring back" dimple dies from Avery? Is there > >really any difference in the dimple these dies make (are they worth > >$26)? > > If you are talking about the spring set you can buy for their big 'C' tool, > I love it. It speeds up the process and lowers the blood pressure. I was > always worried about dragging the tool across the skins, now it pops up and > stays out of the way as I slide the skin to the next hole. > > If you are talking about a different set of actual dies, I don't know. > > -Steve Day > sday(at)pharmcomp.com > > Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
Subject: Wiring in wings (fwd)
Date: Mar 04, 1996
The size of wire is a function of the amp load and the distance. These are published in various aircraft handbooks. You need to size the wire to carry the load. You size the CB to protect the wire. I have a Electronics International Volt/Amp guage in my RV-4 and here is what is shows some of these components draw in amps. This is with the engine off, just drawing from the 12V battery. These are approx from my memory. 100 W Halogin landing light. 6.2 amps 55 W Halogen taxi light 3.0 amps 3 nav lights total 5.1 Amp Strobe light (Whelen Dual Flash strobes in each wing) 7 amps (fluctuates) I think the boost pump is about 3 amps. I screwed up and only put a 5 amp CB switch for the nav lights and this is too low as it will trip the CB sometimes. I am upgrading it to 10 amps. I think in general a 18 guage is fine for all the Nav light runs to each wing and tail. I ran 16 guage to the taxi and landing lights but that may be overkill but I had lots of 16 guage wire on hand. I als ran 16 guage to the strobe power supply under the seat. Herman > Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > I'm to the point where I'd like to order the wire to run through the > conduit in my wings. I'm not sure what gauge / type to order. I > want to run wire for 1) landing light; 2) position light; 3) strobe > light (power pack for strobe in the wing tip). Any advice? > > B F Gibbons > RV-6 (first wing) > Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1996
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com>
Subject: Re: Spring back dimple dies
On Mon, 4 Mar 1996, B F Gibbons wrote: > Has anyone used the "spring back" dimple dies from Avery? Is there > really any difference in the dimple these dies make (are they worth > $26)? > B F Gibbons > RV-6 (first wing) I get a lot of comments about how nice my rivets look, and how nice my dimples are. I've often been asked "Who's dimple dies did you use?". THey are Avery spring-back dimple dies. I would use dies from either Avery or Cleveland. I WOULD NOT use dies from anyone else. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1996
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com>
Subject: Re: Wiring in wings
On Mon, 4 Mar 1996, B F Gibbons wrote: > I'm to the point where I'd like to order the wire to run through the > conduit in my wings. I'm not sure what gauge / type to order. I > want to run wire for 1) landing light; 2) position light; 3) strobe > light (power pack for strobe in the wing tip). Any advice? The first thing you need is a copy of AC43-13. There is a chart (referenced by para 444) that specifies the size of wire. You need to know: 1. The amount of current in Amps that the wire is going to carry. 2. The length of the wire. I used 14 guage wire for the landing light, and 18 guage for the nav light. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1996
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: RV6A tail light
Rear visibility is legal with the two rear facing wing-tip white lights. >From a practical point of view there aren't too many aircraft that are going to run you down from dead astern. Leo Davies >>Rick, >> >>If I had it to do over again, I would plan on using the Whelen wing >>tips strobes with the built-in rear facing white nav light. Van will >>exchange the bottom rudder fiberglas piece for one without the light >>fairing. Installing the normal white nav light in the rudder was a >>pain, but it can be down. I have a short article from the Portland >>Builder's Group on installing a tail light in the rudder if you decide >>to go that route. Let me know and I'll send you a copy. >> >>Doug >> > >Hi Doug, > >Both you and Bob Skinner said that you would use the wingtip strobes >with the rear facing white lights. Do these give as good visibility as >the tail light, do you know? I have not finished the bottom of my RV-6 >rudder and would like to minimize the weight and complexity, so I might >call Van and see if they will switch rudder bottoms. > >Also, does anyone have any experience with other sources of wingtip >lights that are less expensive than the Whelan's, but 'almost' as good. > Or is this another area where it doesn't make any sense to go with >anything but the best? > >Thanks and best regards, > >Bill >-- > > ___ _______________________ > \ \ _ _ / / > \ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello \ > X-*#####*******......./ Chicago / > o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on emp. \ > \__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com / > \______________________\ > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dholmes(at)teleport.com
Date: Mar 04, 1996
Subject: Re: SUN 'N FUN Banquet
<---- Begin Forwarded Message ----> From: aol.com!WStucklen(at)matronics.com Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:19:32 -0500 Subject: Re: RV-List: SUN 'N FUN >Enough about Oshkosh! My husband Dale & I are planning on >visiting Sun N Fun next month. We were there two years ago and >found it was much smaller and not so overwhelming as Oshkosh. >Got lots of pictures of RVs and had a great time talking to the >owners. We found out after the fact when we were that there had >been an RV banquet with Van's people in attendance. Is there >one this year and how do we get our names on the list to attend? > >See you at Sun 'N Fun > >Cathy & Dale Lamport >Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario, Canada >SN 23861 >Tail & Wings finished > >P.S. I guess we will have to unsubscribe when we are away or our >computer will burst from all the RV messages. Call Van's for reservations and/or tickets. There is a dinner every year. See you There...... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com <---- End Forwarded Message ----> According to RVator Feb. the banquet is Tues. 16th 6:30 PM cocktails and dinner at 7:30 at the Lakeland Center, Lake Hunter Room ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Mar 04, 1996
Subject: Seats
One of the guys in my hangar is about to first flight his 4 and has managed to put off comming up with seats for his bird. He wants to go to S&F and doesn't want to sit on the floor. Mine were done by D.J. Lauritzen and I like them, but I think she's busy and he doesn't want to wait that long. So he asked if I would see if anybody on the list has any other good sources. So I'm asking? (I told him to sit on an orange crate until D.J. could do them...) Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Update and Question
y question is; how do you jack up the plane to change tires after the wheel >pants and gear fairings are on? I understand taking off the wheel pants, >but the leg fairings I will be using are not removeable and puting a pipe >into the center of the axle will work for the removal process but not the >reinstall and adjusting of the axle nut. > >Ken Gray >RV-6 N69KG, first flight 1/12/96 45 hours to date! >SN 23069 Two years and Two months, 2100 hours building time. Ken: Larry Vetterman sells a neat little gaget that fits through a modified axle nut into the hollow axle. You then place a small jack under the jack pad and away you go. Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: RV6A tail light
>I'm still trying to figure out what to do here. I purchased the >combo white tail light and strobe to put in rudder fairing, but it >doesn't fit well. The blister in the fiberglass is simply not large >enough and not exactly the right shape. The only way I can see to >make it work correctly is to cut out the offending part and make a >new one. I've got a glass expert in the hangar with me but still, >I'm not excited by this prospect. > >I could put lights in the wing tips which have the white position >lights in them, but I'm not crazy about the look of this >configuration. I'm planning landing lights in the wing tips with >position/strobe combos behind the plexiglass. Very clean looking I >think. > >My question is, if the lights simply don't fit the fiberglass why >doesn't Van make the supplier change it??? I thought mine was a >fluke but apparently no one's really fits well (just look at some of >the bondo used for this application next time you walk a line of >RV's). Does anyone know of a practical solution? >B F Gibbons >RV-6 (first wing) B F: I initially was goingto put the nav lights under the tip lenses. Then I got to thinking, the lights are there for safety reasons and a light mounted under a lens is not as visible as one mounted on the tip, is most likely not legal and may or may not pass certification inspection. If you put the lights "uder glass", I'd check with your GADO or FSDO to see if they will approve this installation. The other problem with this is that personel change and the guy that OK's the installation today may be gone tommorrow. I liked the previous post. Light the airplane up like a Christmas tree. Some of the FG parts that Van's ship aren't very good. How many people ended up with wing tips that were 1/4" short or empanage fairings that don't fit? The rudder bottom is another example, but hey, it beats building a scratch built. Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1996
From: scottg(at)villagenet.com (Scott Gesele)
Subject: Re: Spring back dimple dies
>Has anyone used the "spring back" dimple dies from Avery? Is there >really any difference in the dimple these dies make (are they worth >$26)? >B F Gibbons >RV-6 (first wing) > > There are about 15,000 rivets in an RV. When you consider how many of these are flush, the cost of the dies are insignificant. The dimple dies from Avery are top notch. When you consdier the time and money that goes into getting an RV in the air, why would anyone consider trying to save $10 on a tool that is used so often. -Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KUKULSKIM(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 04, 1996
Subject: Re: Harmon speed thing...
Okay, lots of discussion about Harmon Rocket II speed and climb capability. Let's grant that these performance advantages are in fact there. Now, help me out on this part. My education is in aeronautical engineering, but I can't seem to follow this. The RV-4 manual lists a gross weight of 1500 pounds. It also describes the airplane as a plus or minus 6-G aircraft, with the standard 1.5 safety factor yielding a 9-G ultimate design load. The manual states, in underlines, "G-limits of over 6 should never intentionally be applied to an RV-4 structure." Incidently, this 6-G limit is intended for an RV-4 at aerobatic gross weight, which is 1375 pounds. Redline is listed as 210 mph, and flutter testing has been completed to 230 mph. I'll assume the RV-6 numbers are similar, if not exactly the same. The Harmon Rocket II was described in the February 1993 SPORT AVIATION as having RV-6 wings, modified by reducing each wing center section by 6.5" in span, resulting in 13" less total wingspan. No other wing mod is mentioned. The gross weight is listed as 1781 pounds. Redline is listed as 275 mph, and the article describes the aircraft as capable of plus or minus 9-G ultimate load. So, in summary, 281 pounds heavier at gross and the reported G-load capability is unchanged. A big reason Van refused to endorse this modification was the lack of any engineering analysis of the changes. This may have been done since, and perhaps Harmon no longer claims the same G-load capability. Without in any way intending to malign Mr Harmon's building skills or ingenuity in developing the Rocket II, anyone building one is incurring risks that I can't exactly quantify, but which exist in the mind of a reputable and conservative designer, Van himself. I also note that Van did not seem to mind the original Harmon Rocket mod to the RV-3, so I suspect his misgivings over the Rocket II have merit. I fly USAF fighters, so I can accept risk in flying, but I want to know where there those risks lie so I can manage them. I don't mean this this as a condemnation of the Harmon Rockets; they are impressive airplanes, but you will be much more a test pilot in one given these unknowns. Mike Kukulski (kukulskim(at)aol.com) RV-4 N96MK (installing trim system) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1996
From: bill garrett <bgarrett(at)fast.net>
Subject: Flaring Tool / RV6A tail light
First- Thanks to everyone who replied regarding a flaring tool. I decided to "bite the bullet" and buy one from Avery rather than wait (don't know if I'll make Oshkosh) or try to borrow one (probably lose more of my valuable building time that the tool costs) and I agree with whoever wrote that it's nice to have the tools to do my own work. Regarding the tail light- After receiving my tail kit and talking to builders at the RV Forum in Frederick, MD I sent my rudder bottom back for just the two reasons already mentioned: a) I don't want the extra weight in the tail of my RV, and b) builders then (2 years ago) were complaining about the difficulty of installing the light in the opening. I think it cost me about $11 plus the cost to UPS the original one back to Oregon. I figure it was a good deal. I plan to mount some kind of wingtip lights (probably the Whelen 3 position although I cringe at the cost too). I figure they will do at least a satisfactory job letting others see me from the rear and besides, how many planes can run an RV down from behind anyway! :) The thing I'm more interested in is wiring my landing and/or taxi light(s) to some sort of flasher so those closing on me from the front know I'm there. Just another opinion. >I am just finishing up the tail kit for my RV6A and I am now at the point to >consider a tail light. >I would appreciate any thoughts on what type of light to use, how to mount it, >when to mount it, etc. > >Thanks to all in advance. > > >Rick in inhumanly cold Minnesota Bill /```|`\ /| _ _ _ _ / | \ || ,* | ````~~.._ _ / | \ || _ _,*_ _ _|_ _ _ _ _ / ```~~~..._/ | \ _||_.~`````` Bill Garrett <::::::::> \ <_ _| RV-6A Pottstown, PA N153BG | / || \ ..~~~~~~~......_ _ _ _ _.|.~~`` || `~._ '.....................> _ _...~~~~````` || `//`````````````\\`````````` \| // \\ _//_ _\\_ ( _`: ( _`: ````` ````` Husband and Father Mathematics Teacher Airplane Builder - working on the wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: wiring
Ed, The wire coat hanger ant I had refernce to is in Sport Aviation Oct 92, page 105. It was submitted by Greg Rainwater of Everett Wash. I offhandly write from his article. There are 4 parts: a length of RG-58 coax cable(from radio to wing tip), one SO-239 coax connector, one PL-259 connector and one coat hanger. Coax and connectors are avail. from Radio Shack, the coat hanger from your closet(if you haven't gone all plastic). The 239 is a female, bulkhead type connector, needs a hole and 4 screws to hold it to the bulkhead (mine is on the forward section of right outside wing rib). The center of the coax is soldered to the center pin of the connector, with the shield into a lug and grounded on one of the screws. Says to use a plastic shield betwwen the two so the will not accid. touch. The coat hanger is cut to 22.9 inches and soldered to the 259 and installed. the hanger on mine, I bent into a gentle curve so that it is sprung into the crack where the top and bottom of the wing tip come together. Figure that it is then supported some so that it doesn't 'hang' all of time on the solder joint. It works fine and is concealed. Please don't ask me why the ant is EXACTLY 22.9 in., something about mid freq of comm freq, a 1/4 wave length etc. And don't confuse me with the vertical vs. horizontal polarity, I don't know what it is, much less understand it..IT WORKS. He says that he was using it on his RV4 and does fine. I've had mine on for two years, and if there has ever been a 'blanking" by the fuse./wing/etc.--I didn't hear it :-).(HOO HA, I couldn't resist that straight line!) To me. it is light, very low cost, concealed, and operates. That's good enough for me. John D RV6 N61764 completed >What is the "wire coat hangar" antenna? Has anyone used the windscreen tape >antenna? > >-- Ed Bundy > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1996
From: bill garrett <bgarrett(at)fast.net>
Subject: Wiring in wings
>I'm to the point where I'd like to order the wire to run through the >conduit in my wings. I'm not sure what gauge / type to order. I >want to run wire for 1) landing light; 2) position light; 3) strobe >light (power pack for strobe in the wing tip). Any advice? > >B F Gibbons >RV-6 (first wing) If you have Tony Bingelis' books, two of them (Sportplane Construction Techniques and especially Firewall Forward)have some very specific information regarding electrical loads for various equipment, breakers vs. fuses (suggests you can use heavier breakers than fuses in the certain wire sizes) wiring diagrams, etc. Interesting stuff to read and study. According to his figures, the following are required for your applications: Landing light - 8.4 to 15.6 amps - 14 AWG (radically disagrees w/ what was posted today) Position lights - 1.7 to 5.6 amps - 18 AWG Strobe lights - 2.0 to 4.0 amps - 18 AWG BTW, if you're using the Whelen system, I think the wiring package has most of the wire you need for your runs to the wingtips (could be wrong on this one). If you don't have Tony B's books, I'd highly recommend getting them. Bill /```|`\ /| _ _ _ _ / | \ || ,* | ````~~.._ _ / | \ || _ _,*_ _ _|_ _ _ _ _ / ```~~~..._/ | \ _||_.~`````` Bill Garrett <::::::::> \ <_ _| RV-6A Pottstown, PA N153BG | / || \ ..~~~~~~~......_ _ _ _ _.|.~~`` || `~._ '.....................> _ _...~~~~````` || `//`````````````\\`````````` \| // \\ _//_ _\\_ ( _`: ( _`: ````` ````` Husband and Father Mathematics Teacher Airplane Builder - working on the wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: O-290 GPU with both mags
I recently bought an O-290 GPU that had been mounted on an airboat with the intention of maybe using it on something like a Cub or Glastar or who knows. It has both mags and an oil cooler along with a starter ring. I've decided to sell it so if you know of anyone that may be interested in it have them either call or e-mail me. My home phone number is 206-525-5445 between 6:00 and 9:00 Pacific time. I've run the motor and it seems to be ok. I haven't done a compression check but I do know that it has been in dry storage for about 19 years. It started on the 3rd or 4th prop, though. thanks, John Ammeter ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com Seattle WA, USA RV-6 N16JA Flying 5 years ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: Update and Question
>Just to update everyone on my RV-6. The FAA came back out to reissue the AW >certificate last tuesday, I have been giving rides all weekend. > > >My question is; how do you jack up the plane to change tires after the wheel >pants and gear fairings are on? I understand taking off the wheel pants, >but the leg fairings I will be using are not removeable and puting a pipe >into the center of the axle will work for the removal process but not the >reinstall and adjusting of the axle nut. > >WHAT A GREAT PLANE, keep on building, it is worth it! > >Ken Gray >RV-6 N69KG, first flight 1/12/96 45 hours to date! >SN 23069 Two years and Two months, 2100 hours building time. >klgray(at)bihs.net >(409) 776 3033 home >(409) 775 4305 work >Bryan, Tx. > I place a headless bolt in the hole for the tiedown and use a tall tripod jack with a depression in the top of the jack. Do NOT use a short jack with a plastic bucket under it. I leave it to your imagination to think what can happen when you have a heavy airplane wing 6 inches in the air and it's a hot day. What happens to plastic when it gets hot? Right; no damage luckily to the aircraft. Just a short story about the tripod jack. I went out to my favorite discount aircraft supply house at Boeing field with the intention of buying a tripod jack (after experience with plastic bucket). I found a pair of jacks for $300; serious money. Figured bargaining couldn't hurt. After a few minutes I managed to get the price lowered to $255 for the pair. Couldn't budge him any lower. Really didn't need or want two jacks so then offered $125 for one. He say's ok. You explain it. As it turned out a friend in a hangar across the taxiway has one also. So, when either of us needs two, no problem. John Ammeter ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com Seattle WA, USA RV-6 N16JA Flying 5 years ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1996
From: "Fred Hiatt" <hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: AutoPilots
To JMP: Would you share your autopilot info with me? Please respond to: hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu Thanks, Fred Hiatt interserv.com!jperri(at)matronics.com wrote: >Ron .. get in touch with Forrest. He had one and replaced it with a S-Tec like >mine. They are expensive but really good! Several decisions need to be prior to >puchase. Is a wing leveler all you need or do you want a good cross country and >IFR type system ? I have done a lot of both. I have my own opinions which I >would glad to share with the group at the next meeting. Hope I can make it.. > >JMP > > Fred Hiatt, RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com>
Date: Mar 04, 1996
Subject: Re: Spring back dimple dies
> There are about 15,000 rivets in an RV. When you consider how many of these > are flush, the cost of the dies are insignificant. The dimple dies from > Avery are top notch. When you consdier the time and money that goes into > getting an RV in the air, why would anyone consider trying to save $10 on a > tool that is used so often. > Agreed. I didn't do a very good job with my question. I purchased my dies from Avery two years ago, but I'm pretty sure they weren't called "spring back" dies at that time. I assume Avery has changed the dies during this time. I'm just wondering if I should pitch mine and buy new ones. I think I would have been better off to just order the dies and save the band width. I'm sure Steve Day would agree, eh Steve? :) (I thought I read that there were 30,000 rivets in an RV) Thank God Van didn't design a biplane! Two wings is enough. B F Gibbons RV-6 (first wing) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Seats
>One of the guys in my hangar is about to first flight his 4 and has managed >to put off comming up with seats for his bird. He wants to go to S&F and >doesn't want to sit on the floor. > >Mine were done by D.J. Lauritzen and I like them, but I think she's busy and >he doesn't want to wait that long. So he asked if I would see if anybody on >the list has any other good sources. So I'm asking? (I told him to sit on >an orange crate until D.J. could do them...) > >Regards: >Rusty Gossard >N47RG RV-4 Flying Rusty: I paid an local upholstery shop $ 165.00. I already had purchased two, 3", 3-density Temperfoam (won't do that again) seat cushions and two 1" seat backs of "Sumate". The shop added 2" of generic medium density foam to the seat bottoms and one inch to the seat backs. The Temperfoam really needs some additional padding, it got pretty uncomfortable after flying 3 1/2 hours. (I flew the test period off with the Temperfoam in a pillow case.) They also made two stick "booties". I'm sure they're not as nice as DJ's, but they suit me and I liked the price. Besides, I'm not into leather, too kinky:) Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bill Baines <bill(at)sfu.ca>
Subject: Re: Wiring in Wings
Date: Mar 04, 1996
In response to B G Gibons: To choose a wire gauge, I usually use the charts in AC43.13-1a. (Ref Fig: 11-7 and 11-7A on pages 182, 182-1). They are based on established standards, and are adequate for most general purpose aircraft electrical installations. The choice of wire gauge depends on supply voltage (i.e. 14V, 28V, 115Vac@400 Hz etc.) acceptable voltage drop (usually accepted as .5V for 14V sply, 1V for 28V sply), Whether the load is operated intermittently (<2 min -- flap motor or radio transmitter for example, or landing light, although many of us fly with our landing lights on longer than 2 minutes in busy terminal areas), or continuously (engine instruments, nav lights, radio receivers). Another consideration is disipation of heat from the wire. Not usually a problem in light aircraft, but in bundles of 1/2 inch or more, the center wires can warm up a lot. Below are some interpolations from the charts. Assumptions are 14V Sply, Wires in bundles, continuous load. (Chart is hand typed with tabs to align colums -- hope it is readable) Length in ft is maximum length allowable given the gauge (LH column) and continuous current (top row). Current AWG 1A 2A 3A 4A 5A 7A 10A 15A 20A 20 49ft 23ft 17ft 11ft 10ft 7ft 18 75ft 38ft 25ft 19ft 16ft 10ft 8ft 16 100ft 53ft 35ft 26ft 21ft 15ft 10ft 14 80ft 60ft 42ft 33ft 23ft 17ft 11ft 12 88ft 68ft 53ft 37ft 26ft 18ft 13ft 10 90ft 65ft 46ft 31ft 22ft Example: Landing Light. Assume continuous load, 60Watt, 14Vdc Sply, Length of run from Breaker thru switch to lamp assy = 30ft. Pwr = Current x Voltage, so, Current = Pwr/Voltage = 60/14 = 4.2 Amp Move right from 4.2 along top row to 5A column, Move down to first entry > 30 Ft, (33 Ft) read guage (14 Gauge). (You migght get away with AWG16 becaue the current is really 4.2 Amps, but my experience is that landing light wires get hot in the area of the bulb because of the enclosed area, so a heavier gauge doesn't hurt (excepting weight). A comment about wire. I plan to use lo end Tefzel M22759/16. It is rated at 150 deg C, has a thin 10mil wall thickness, has relatively good abbrasion resistance, and is readily available. I plan to stay away from the older Mil-w-5086 wire. It has PVC insulation, gases toxic when hot, and is rated at 105 Deg C. I recommend AC43.13-1a, and AC65.15A (Airframe) for lots of good "standard" information on Aircraft systems --saves lots of guesswork. Sorry for the length of this message. Usual disclaimers -- I don't type well. -- Bill Baines, bill(at)sfu.ca ________________________________________________________________________________
From: av8r(at)hic.net
Date: Mar 04, 1996
Subject: Re: Update and Question
>Just to update everyone on my RV-6. The FAA came back out to reissue the AW >certificate last tuesday, I have been giving rides all weekend.> >With the Houston FSDO, they only give you a VFR day AW cert. at the start >and must come back to give you another one and they make the log book entry. Congratulations Ken - I'm about 1 month away from first flight in my 6A - putting on some paint - Email me and I,ll come see you from Ellington (Houston) when I'm up Regards, Rob Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: av8r(at)hic.net
Date: Mar 04, 1996
Subject: Re: IRC Chat On RV's
>If there is interest, I will start a room called RV-Stuff on Tuesday 3-5-96 >at 8:00 PM Eastern Time. >If anyone has any questions on logging into chat in general, e-mail me >personally and I will try to help. >Any comments or interest in a chat on Tuesday, post some sort of reply to >the list. >-Scott N506RV Scott... I'll be there, - we are talking "undernet" aren't we? - let me know Regards, Rob Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1996
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: VOR Antennas-associated Question
---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: Curt Reimer, INTERNET:Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA DATE: 3/4/96 3:46 PM RE: Re: RV-List: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question >There might be another explaination: My VOR theory is a little rusty, but >don't they work by comparing the phase of a reference signal and a radial >position signal? If these signals are at different RF carrier frequencies, >and the RG-58 has a velocity characteristic which is frequency-dependant, >then it may well be that the receiving antenna feedline is cut to a >particular calibrated length. Changing that length will introduce >phase-error into the two VOR signals, and, indeed uncalibrate your VOR. >Just guessing, I'm probably wrong.- >Curt Reimer Curt, There are indeed some applications where coax lengths are critical to an antenna system but there are no such requirements on VHF Comm, VOR or ILS antennas on airplanes. If you were working on a 747 where the feedline could be 100' long you might want to take some special pains to locate the antenna closer to reduce line losses to to overall length but in the size airplanes we're talking about, about anything you want to do is fine. Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OrndorffG(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 05, 1996
Subject: Re: Seats
Rusty , Have your friend give us a call we can make him a set of seats(301)293-1505. ....George & Becki Orndorff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Mar 05, 1996
Subject: Re: Flaring Tool / RV6A tail light
>F>I figure they will do at least a satisfactory job letting others see me from >the rear and besides, how many planes can run an RV down from behind anyway! >:)>> >> >>Rick in inhumanly cold Minnesota > I believe Boeing, Mc Donald-Douglas, Gulfstream, Etc., Etc. Have a few that are capable of running up your tail...... Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1996
From: Becki Orndorff <rso(at)css.ncifcrf.gov>
Subject: Re: Seats
Rusty, I am doing seats. Have your friend call me in the evening at (301) 293-1505. I can probably squeeze him in before SNF in the present schedule. I'll be glad to send him samples in the colors he is interested in. Seats start at $290 for an RV4 or RV6. Becki Orndorff >One of the guys in my hangar is about to first flight his 4 and has managed >to put off comming up with seats for his bird. He wants to go to S&F and >doesn't want to sit on the floor. > >Mine were done by D.J. Lauritzen and I like them, but I think she's busy and >he doesn't want to wait that long. So he asked if I would see if anybody on >the list has any other good sources. So I'm asking? (I told him to sit on >an orange crate until D.J. could do them...) > >Regards: >Rusty Gossard >N47RG RV-4 Flying > > Becki Orndorff NCI-FCRDC, Computer & Statistical Services ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OrndorffG(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 05, 1996
Subject: Re: Wiring in wings
B F, I think you will find that you need 14 to 12 size wire for you landing lite, 18 for your nav lite and your stobes will need the shelded wire just for strobes, Vans has a kit to do strobes. Remember to size your brakers right the braker is to protect your wire .To large of a braker and to small of a wire and your wire can fail.I you would to talk about this off line call301-293-1505 in the evening...George Orndorff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com>
Date: Mar 05, 1996
Subject: Re: RV6A tail light
> B F: I initially was goingto put the nav lights under the tip lenses. Then > I got to thinking, the lights are there for safety reasons and a light > mounted under a lens is not as visible as one mounted on the tip, is most > likely not legal and may or may not pass certification inspection. If you > put the lights "uder glass", I'd check with your GADO or FSDO to see if they > will approve this installation. Bob, Your point is well taken but our F33A has position and strobe lights mounded under the wing tip lense (although the landing light is not in there with them). You stopping by here in April?? B F Gibbons RV-6 (first wing) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com>
Date: Mar 05, 1996
Subject: Wire in the wings
Allow me to officially close this thread. Thanks to those who responded. Ok, Ok, I got lazy. I have a copy of Standards and Practices and also have Tony's books. I just figured I'd get a "order part number xxx from Aircraft Spruce" response. Instead I got much better advice (as usual from the list): "here are some sources","here's what I did", "your mileage may vary", and "you're a homebuilder, look it up yourself". I stand before you a humbled homebuilder. B F Gibbons RV-6 (first wing) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1996
From: "Gene Gottschalk (286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Seats
Rusty, Becki Orndorff does RV interiors. I don't know how busy she is, but she does great work. Come on becki, speak up. -Gene >One of the guys in my hangar is about to first flight his 4 and has managed >to put off comming up with seats for his bird. He wants to go to S&F and >doesn't want to sit on the floor. > >Mine were done by D.J. Lauritzen and I like them, but I think she's busy and >he doesn't want to wait that long. So he asked if I would see if anybody on >the list has any other good sources. So I'm asking? (I told him to sit on >an orange crate until D.J. could do them...) > >Regards: >Rusty Gossard >N47RG RV-4 Flying > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ^ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Gene Gottschalk |N| e-mail : geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov~ ~ Goddard Space Flight Center |A| [128.183.166.137] ~ ~ Code 540/505, Hughes STX |S| Telephone : (301) 286-0708 ~ ~ Greenbelt, MD 20771 |A| FAX : (301) 286-0270 ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ^ ^ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1996
From: Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com>
Subject: Re: Update and Question
Bob, How do you get the tire on/off with this setup? Dan Boudro RV-4 > > Ken: Larry Vetterman sells a neat little gaget that fits through a modified > axle nut into the hollow axle. You then place a small jack under the jack > pad and away you go. > Bob Skinner RV-6 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HowardRV(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 05, 1996
Subject: Re: Update and Question
CLEVELAND TOOLS (515) 432-6794 E Mail--cat3tools(at)aol.com Sells a RV Axle Jack Kit (Written up in past RVator) for $45.00. It looks like you modify the axle nuts then you can use bottle or hydraulic jacks. Could carry the adapter with you. Howard Kidwell howardrv(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1996
From: pilla(at)espinc.espinc.com (Michael Pilla)
Subject: Re: RV6A tail light
> As far as the tail light. It's a pain. I cut a 1/8 thick piece of > alunminum the shape (sort of) the rudder bottom receptical then cut a hole in it > the size of the light. Glassed that to the rudder bottom. Drilled and tapped > it to accept the tail light. It's hard to explain but it looks good and it > works. Well, I mounted a combo position/strobe in my RV-4's rudder. I started out with a 1/8" piece of aluminum, ..., but a Glassair (gasp :-) friend of mine had asked for help in fabricating a mounting bracket for his oil cooler. I fabricated one out of aluminum and he, in turn, took some scrap fiberglass and epoxy sheets (two layers of glass/epoxy). We cut it to the rough shape of the opening, then cut an opening in that for the light. Two nut plates were then riveted to the glass "bulkhead" to "mount" the light. I then "tacked" the "bulkhead" in place with some five-minute epoxy. Finally, a strip of fiberglass cloth, soaked in epoxy, was placed through the light opening all around the edge of the "bulkhead" and Van's fairing. I have to admit, it worked out quite nicely, but, ugh! do I hate working with that stuff. Give me our tin bending/smashing any day. :-) Mike Pilla pilla(at)espinc.com RV-4 fuse out of jig, installing aft top deck and turtle deck ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 05, 1996
Subject: Re: Seats
My hangermate just replaced the seats in his RV-4. They are ugly and quite uncomfortable. We have been using his old ones for just about everything. If your friend wants, I'll ask Adam if he would be willing to part with 'em. Let me know. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Mar 05, 1996
Subject: Re: Seats
>Rusty, > I am doing seats. Have your friend call me in the evening at (301) >293-1505. I can probably squeeze him in before SNF in the present schedule. >I'll be glad to send him samples in the colors he is interested in. Seats >start at $290 for an RV4 or RV6. > Becki Orndorff > > > Becki: Thanks, I'm passing the info along. Rusty ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1996
From: scottg(at)villagenet.com (scott gesele)
Subject: Re: IRC Chat On RV's
>Scott... I'll be there, - we are talking "undernet" aren't we? - let me know > >Regards, Rob Lee > I will be loggin into irc.colorado.edu. This is an efnet server. -Scott N506RV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1996
From: Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Flaring Tool / RV6A tail light
Yup...it happebed in LA in the '70s. A B-737 swallowed a C-172 That's what brought us the TCA (Class B). The more you look like a Boeing, the safer you are. Chris > > >F>I figure they will do at least a satisfactory job letting others see me from > >the rear and besides, how many planes can run an RV down from behind anyway! > >:)>> > > >> > >>Rick in inhumanly cold Minnesota > > > I believe Boeing, Mc Donald-Douglas, Gulfstream, Etc., Etc. Have a few that > are capable of running up your tail...... > > Regards: > Rusty Gossard > N47RG RV-4 Flying > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1996
From: "Christopher Krieg" <christopher_krieg(at)aoce.austin.apple.com>
Subject: RV6A tail light
------ From: rv-list(at)matronics.com, Tue, Mar 5, 1996 ------ >> B F: I initially was goingto put the nav lights under the tip lenses. Then >> I got to thinking, the lights are there for safety reasons and a light >> mounted under a lens is not as visible as one mounted on the tip, is most >> likely not legal and may or may not pass certification inspection. If you >> put the lights "uder glass", I'd check with your GADO or FSDO to see if they >> will approve this installation. >Bob, >Your point is well taken but our F33A has position and strobe lights >mounded under the wing tip lense (although the landing light >is not in there with them). In all the Glasairs that we had certified (at the Glasair shop I used to work for), they all had position lights mounted behind wingtip lenses. We never had any trouble with the FAA.we never had any rear facing lights in the tips. The Glasair has a mount location built into the rudder. Chris Krieg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1996
From: n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen)
Subject: Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question
Curt, you wrote: There might be another explaination: My VOR theory is a little rusty, but don't they work by comparing the phase of a reference signal and a radial position signal? If these signals are at different RF carrier frequencies, and the RG-58 has a velocity characteristic which is frequency-dependant, then it may well be that the receiving antenna feedline is cut to a particular calibrated length. Changing that length will introduce phase-error into the two VOR signals, and, indeed uncalibrate your VOR. Just guessing, I'm probably wrong.- Curt Reimer _________________ Curt, when you see this I am sure you will remember learning it long ago. Other than the fact that there are a number of different VHF VOR frequencies (from different VOR stations); any particular station puts out only one RF frequency. That is the only signal which comes down your RG-58 coax from the antenna. One may ask then, how is it possible to have a reference and a variable signal on the same frequency? (We know that the receiver sees a reference and variable signal and by comparing their phases is able to determine the VOR radial). This is how: On the assigned RF VOR frequency there is AM modulated a 9960 Hz "subcarrier" (usually referred to as the 10 KHz subcarrier). This subcarrier is in turn FM modulated with a 30 Hz reference signal. From the ground station that reference signal goes out with the same phase in all directions. The ground transmitter however has four antenna elements. One pair of elements uses a 30 Hz sine AM modulation and the other pair uses a 30 Hz cosine AM modulation. As you know a sine and cosine wave is the same except 90 degrees phase difference. The sin/cos am modulation of the antenna elements causes a radiation pattern (lobe) which rotates at a 30 Hz rate around the antenna. That is the variable signal. As it rotates, it is exactly in-phase with the reference signal when pointed north and exactly 180 degrees out-of-phase when pointed south. There is a 90 phase relationship east and west. You get the picture. The VOR receiver simply AM demodulates this and sends it to the VOR head (converter). The VOR head, using filters separates the 10 KHz subcarrier reference signal and the 30 Hz variable signal. It then FM demodulates the 30 Hz reference signal from the 10 KHz subcarrier. This results in the two 30 Hz signals (reference and variable). The VOR head then shifts the phase of one of the signals some more according to the OBS knob and finally compares the resulting phase to drive the course deviation pointer. The exact details of how this is done is not important. Since this is one of the few things I happen to know about I thought I would pass it along. Peter B. Mortensen RV-4 builder of N number N21PE __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
Subject: Wiring in wings (fwd)
Date: Mar 05, 1996
Two things. If you are refering to my msg on the AMP ratings I posted, I specifically listed a type of light (ie 100 W Halogen). What I posted is ACTUAL measured. I expect Tony's is covering a range of lights, most of which RV's will not use. A 16 Guage wire is fine for a 15 ft run from fuselage to the light in the wing for a 6 amp current. As I said at the start of my msg, the wire size is based on distance and your amp load. Each user must figure that out for the light or load they are using. Also, your quoted amp rating for strobe lights is way under what 2 and 3 light strobe systems pull. Whelen publishes 7 amps for the single power supply version. A single strobe may use closer to what you show below but I expect most will use the single power supply. The dual power supplies are probably half that (3 to 4 amps). > > >I'm to the point where I'd like to order the wire to run through the > >conduit in my wings. I'm not sure what gauge / type to order. I > >want to run wire for 1) landing light; 2) position light; 3) strobe > >light (power pack for strobe in the wing tip). Any advice? > > > >B F Gibbons > >RV-6 (first wing) > > If you have Tony Bingelis' books, two of them (Sportplane Construction > Techniques and especially Firewall Forward)have some very specific > information regarding electrical loads for various equipment, breakers vs. > fuses (suggests you can use heavier breakers than fuses in the certain wire > sizes) wiring diagrams, etc. Interesting stuff to read and study. > > According to his figures, the following are required for your applications: > > Landing light - 8.4 to 15.6 amps - 14 AWG (radically disagrees w/ what was > posted today) > Position lights - 1.7 to 5.6 amps - 18 AWG > Strobe lights - 2.0 to 4.0 amps - 18 AWG > > BTW, if you're using the Whelen system, I think the wiring package has most > of the wire you need for your runs to the wingtips (could be wrong on this one). > > If you don't have Tony B's books, I'd highly recommend getting them. > > Bill > -------------------------------------------------------- *NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my own and are independent of my employer. Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Update and Question
>Bob, >How do you get the tire on/off with this setup? >Dan Boudro RV-4 > >> >> Ken: Larry Vetterman sells a neat little gaget that fits through a modified >> axle nut into the hollow axle. You then place a small jack under the jack >> pad and away you go. >> Bob Skinner RV-6 Dan: You remove the screws on the bracket that holds the outboard screw for the wheel pant and insert the shaft on the jack pad assembly into the hollow axle. Then, you unscrew the modified axle nut onto the shaft along with the wheel. You then lower the axle on some blocks of wood and then slide the tire/wheel and axle nut off. It works well. Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
Date: Mar 05, 1996
Subject: Re: Strobe Power Pack (was Wiring in wings)
> I also ran 16 guage to the strobe power supply under the seat. > > Herman > This brings up another topic. Builders around here have opted to put individual strobe power supplies in each wing instead of one power pack under the seat. The reason given is safety. The logic goes like this: IF fuel leaks out of your tanks AND IF somehow a spark is generated by the high output line from the strobe power pack then..... These builders are more comfortable with running low output wire to the power supply in the wingtip. Also, if one power supply goes out, you still have one strobe working. Now.... going to the individual units will cost $360 total ($160 each) from Chief and output 12 joules each. A single unit with 34 joules output will cost $265 (18 joule each wing if simultaneous flash). The new comet flash puts out 44 joules for each light alternating or 22 joules each simutaneous and cost $285. Power for the buck would say go with the comet flash. But... what about this hypotetical safety issue. Also, is there a big real time difference between the 12 joule, 34 joule and 44 joule?? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892 2300 Oakmont Way #205 Fax: 541-342-5492 Eugene, Oregon 97401 email: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1996
From: ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE )
Subject: Rudder
Fellow builders, last night I back riveted the stiffeners to the rudder skin. On the first stiffener I riveted, I used a little too much pressure and the skin bulges out around the rivets slightly. It looks a little unsightly but is structurally sound. The other stiffeners went on perfectly. My question is--Can I drill out the rivets, reflatten the skin, and re rivit the stiffener---or live with it? It's .016 skin, so I don't know how much reworking I can do. It's not horrible, but noticeable on the shinny skin. TIA Ed Cole N648RV (R'svd) RV6A ecole(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: One last point about wire sizes
Date: Mar 05, 1996
From: Rudy Albachten <Rudy.Albachten(at)amd.com>
I know this theme has already been over-discussed, but I wanted to add one small point... The circuit breaker is chosen to handle the load of the device, but will always be more current than the device is expected to draw. The wire size is chosen (by table, chart, etc.) to match the CIRCUIT BREAKER, not the device. For example: If your nav lights draw 6amps and you use a 10amp breaker, your wiring must be able to handle 10amps not 6amps. (Imagine some water causing a partial short. The circuit breaker doesn't trip till 10amps.) -- Rudy Albachten rudy.albachten(at)amd.com Advanced Micro Devices 512/602-5118 Austin Texas RV-6A: Finished HS skeleton, skins ready to rivet as soon as Tony Bingelis inspects the skeleton. VS under construction. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1996
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Spring back dimple dies
Suggestion: buy the fancy new dimple dies and grind an edge of the old ones back a ways. Ground down dimple dies come in mighty handy for: - Dimoling where you drilled too close to a bend - Dimpling the rivet holes in nut plates that are to be used in thinner material where you don't necessarily want to machine c-sink Randall Henderson RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1996
From: crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer)
Subject: Re: Rudder
>Fellow builders, >last night I back riveted the stiffeners to the rudder skin. On the >first stiffener I riveted, I used a little too much pressure and the >skin bulges out around the rivets slightly. It looks a little unsightly >but is structurally sound. The other stiffeners went on perfectly. >My question is--Can I drill out the rivets, reflatten the skin, and re >rivit the stiffener---or live with it? It's .016 skin, so I don't know >how much reworking I can do. It's not horrible, but noticeable on the >shinny skin. >TIA >Ed Cole N648RV (R'svd) RV6A >ecole(at)ix.netcom.com Ed, I'd leave things the way they are. Don't drill out for cosmetic reasons. Do drill out to improve a structural problem. Experience here is definitely the best teacher. Chet Razer crazer(at)egyptian.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1996
From: <Terryg(at)sceptrecal.ccmail.compuserve.com>
Subject: When To Order Wing Kit?
Folks -- I'm now well into my HS, and as my skills improve, I find that I'm picking up speed a little. I'm no where NEAR finishing, but on the other hand, I now know it's NOT going to take forever. Wanting to avoid any potential down time, I was wondering when others have ordered their wing kit. After you finished the HS? HS and VS? Ideally, the wing kit shows up the day you set the last rivet in the empennage. Any thoughts or comments would be very much appreciate. Cheers... Terry in Calgary "Horizontal Stabilizer" PS. In case you're wondering, my change in email address reflects a decision to receive the RV-LIST at work, as opposed to home. I can still be reached at the old address, as well, but the address at work is terryg(at)sceptrecal.ccmail.compuserve.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1996
From: "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov>
Subject: Removable panel
Reply to: Removable panel Garry Corde you write... I did mine on my computer and saved my work as a print file. I brought this to a printing shop and had a full scale drawing printed.... -------------------- What application program did you use to draw the pannel? --Elon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 05, 1996
Subject: Re: Strobe Power Pack (was Wiring in wings)
>This brings up another topic. Builders around here have opted to put >individual strobe power supplies in each wing instead of one power pack >under the seat. The reason given is safety. The logic goes like this: IF >fuel leaks out of your tanks AND IF somehow a spark is generated by the high >output line from the strobe power pack then..... These builders are more >comfortable with running low output wire to the power supply in the wingtip. >Also, if one power supply goes out, you still have one strobe working. So why not shut the single source supply OFF when you smell the gas? I preferr the KISS priciple.... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1996
From: dls(at)neptune.kpt.arl.psu.edu (Dan Shades)
Subject: Re: Rudder
>Fellow builders, >last night I back riveted the stiffeners to the rudder skin. On the >first stiffener I riveted, I used a little too much pressure and the >skin bulges out around the rivets slightly. It looks a little unsightly >but is structurally sound. The other stiffeners went on perfectly. >My question is--Can I drill out the rivets, reflatten the skin, and re >rivit the stiffener---or live with it? It's .016 skin, so I don't know >how much reworking I can do. It's not horrible, but noticeable on the >shinny skin. >TIA >Ed Cole N648RV (R'svd) RV6A >ecole(at)ix.netcom.com > >Ed, I had to drill out a rivet on my rudder that I was not satisfied with. I found it to be very painstaking work to remove the rivet without causing further cosmetic damage to the skin. My opinion based on that experience is either live with it or start over. It probably would not cost you much to order new stiffiners and a skin. Also, trying to get rid of it by flattening the skin will probably cause some small creases. Good Luck, Dan Shades RV-4 wing (phlogiston spar) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1996
From: ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE )
Subject: Re: When To Order Wing Kit?
You wrote: > > Folks -- I'm now well into my HS, and as my skills improve, I find > that I'm picking up speed a little. I'm no where NEAR finishing, but > on the other hand, I now know it's NOT going to take forever. > > Wanting to avoid any potential down time, I was wondering when others > have ordered their wing kit. After you finished the HS? HS and VS? > Ideally, the wing kit shows up the day you set the last rivet in the > empennage. > > Any thoughts or comments would be very much appreciate. > > Cheers... > > Terry in Calgary > "Horizontal Stabilizer" Terry, Fiqure at least 12 weeks to get the wing kit. Tail kit will take 250 hrs. or so?? Calculate your time spent per week and do the math. I'm finishing the rudder with the elevators left to go, so I ordered the wing kit mid. Feb. Van's first quote was delivery at the end of March. The next time I checked, they said May???? Go figure. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1996
From: Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Strobe Power Pack (was Wiring in wings)
Yes, legality. The 12 joule units are only legal on older aircraft. They do no meet the newer specs. If you intend to fly at night you will need to use the 20 joule unit(s). Chris > > Power for the buck would say go with the comet flash. But... what about > this hypotetical safety issue. Also, is there a big real time difference > between the 12 joule, 34 joule and 44 joule?? > Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892 > 2300 Oakmont Way #205 Fax: 541-342-5492 > Eugene, Oregon 97401 email: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder
>Fellow builders, >last night I back riveted the stiffeners to the rudder skin. On the >first stiffener I riveted, I used a little too much pressure and the >skin bulges out around the rivets slightly. It looks a little unsightly >but is structurally sound. The other stiffeners went on perfectly. >My question is--Can I drill out the rivets, reflatten the skin, and re >rivit the stiffener---or live with it? It's .016 skin, so I don't know >how much reworking I can do. It's not horrible, but noticeable on the >shinny skin. >TIA >Ed Cole N648RV (R'svd) RV6A >ecole(at)ix.netcom.com > Ed: Chances are that the skin is stretched and I doubt that it would be worth the risk to do anything with it. Imperfections show up the most on bare aluminum and the "uh oh" won't be as noticable after painting, IMO. Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: When To Order Wing Kit?
> > Wanting to avoid any potential down time, I was wondering when others > have ordered their wing kit. After you finished the HS? HS and VS? > Ideally, the wing kit shows up the day you set the last rivet in the > empennage. > > Any thoughts or comments would be very much appreciate. > Terry in Calgary Terry: I'd opt for the safe route. It's frustrating to have to wait when you're in the mood, so I'd make sure the wing kit is on hand. Besides, sometimes it's nice to be able to work on something different while waiting for primer to dry or while thinking out a problem or just plain being bored with working on the tail. If you have to order a replacement part for a tail part you can work on the wings while you wait for delivery. Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Strobe Power Pack (was Wiring in wings)
>This brings up another topic. Builders around here have opted to put >individual strobe power supplies in each wing instead of one power pack >under the seat. The reason given is safety. The logic goes like this: IF >fuel leaks out of your tanks AND IF somehow a spark is generated by the high >output line from the strobe power pack then..... These builders are more >comfortable with running low output wire to the power supply in the wingtip. >Also, if one power supply goes out, you still have one strobe working. > >Now.... going to the individual units will cost $360 total ($160 each) from >Chief and output 12 joules each. A single unit with 34 joules output will >cost $265 (18 joule each wing if simultaneous flash). The new comet flash >puts out 44 joules for each light alternating or 22 joules each simutaneous >and cost $285. > >Power for the buck would say go with the comet flash. But... what about >this hypotetical safety issue. Also, is there a big real time difference >between the 12 joule, 34 joule and 44 joule?? >Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892 Ross: I've wondered about this as well. The comet flash seems like the best bang for the buck and probably a weight savings. As far as the fuel leak problem, I'd assume that a fuel leak would would not occur all of the sudden and if it did occur, it would be fixed. Possibly routing a conduit in the aft part of the wing well away from the tanks would be a good idea. A fuel vapor/spark problem could occur with either the landing light or nav light wiring as well. There is possible radio interference to worry about as well with the single power unit located in the cockpit. Right? Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 05, 1996
Subject: Re: RV-6 Cabin heat
> My oil temperature never got over 130 degrees, this with my cooler door >completely closed. On the trip out (9 degrees), I blocked the inlet area >with duct tape, reducing the inlet area by 1/2. On initial climb out, I >thought that I would have to turn back and land as cylinder head temps >approached 425 degrees. As soon as I leveled off, the temps dropped to >350-375. On the trip back, without duct tape (15 degrees), the CHT's ran at >250-275. I think I'll look into some cowl flaps before next winter. They >should be a little easier to fit with only two pipes exiting the cowl. Does >anyone have any ideas on using a MAC servo for activating the cowl flap as >opposed to a linkage that would have to be disconnected. An electrical plug >would be a little more convenient. Would the MAC servo stand up to the >heat? Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 > Wow! Sounds like cowl flaps are almost a necessity for us fortunate cold-region folks. You might look into quarter scale servos; (at finer hobby shops everywhere) they put out quite a bit of torque. I don't think they're as precise as the MAC, but for cowl flaps I bet they'd be fine. They're a LOT cheaper. Get this done in the next 2-3 months so you can do all the R&D for me, ok? :) -- Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1996
From: lackerma(at)bigsean.rad.rpslmc.edu (lauren ackerman)
Subject: Re: Rudder
It may be too late when you smell the gas. laurens ackerman RV-6 into the wings ----- Begin Included Message ----- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: neptune.kpt.arl.psu.edu!dls(at)matronics.com (Dan Shades)
Subject: Re: Rudder
>Fellow builders, >last night I back riveted the stiffeners to the rudder skin. On the >first stiffener I riveted, I used a little too much pressure and the >skin bulges out around the rivets slightly. It looks a little unsightly >but is structurally sound. The other stiffeners went on perfectly. >My question is--Can I drill out the rivets, reflatten the skin, and re >rivit the stiffener---or live with it? It's .016 skin, so I don't know >how much reworking I can do. It's not horrible, but noticeable on the >shinny skin. >TIA >Ed Cole N648RV (R'svd) RV6A >ecole(at)ix.netcom.com > >Ed, I had to drill out a rivet on my rudder that I was not satisfied with. I found it to be very painstaking work to remove the rivet without causing further cosmetic damage to the skin. My opinion based on that experience is either live with it or start over. It probably would not cost you much to order new stiffiners and a skin. Also, trying to get rid of it by flattening the skin will probably cause some small creases. Good Luck, Dan Shades RV-4 wing (phlogiston spar) ----- End Included Message ----- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BPattonsoa(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 05, 1996
Subject: Re: Rudder
If you have streched the skin, it won't ever go back. Removing rivets is almost always guaranteed to make things worst. Things are a lot more visable with shiny skin. If you are concerned, complete the part and then shoot it with your primer and see what happens. If it still stands out, put the part away and let it eat at you until you do what most of us do, dial Vans and get new ones. Bruce Patton putting on tail ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com>
Date: Mar 05, 1996
Subject: Re: When To Order Wing Kit?
> Wanting to avoid any potential down time, I was wondering when others > have ordered their wing kit. After you finished the HS? HS and VS? > Ideally, the wing kit shows up the day you set the last rivet in the > empennage. Order it now. B F Gibbons RV-6 (first wing) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 06, 1996
Subject: jacking up your RV
Temporarily turn the hose clamp that holds the wire that runs up the back of your fairings so that the screw part is on the bottom side, re-tighten, and use that as a jack pad. You'll have it every time you need it, including trips! Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1996
From: Ross Rebgetz <Ross.Rebgetz(at)tvl.tcp.csiro.au>
Subject: Re: Rudder
>Fellow builders, >last night I back riveted the stiffeners to the rudder skin. On the >first stiffener I riveted, I used a little too much pressure and the >skin bulges out around the rivets slightly. It looks a little unsightly >but is structurally sound. The other stiffeners went on perfectly. >My question is--Can I drill out the rivets, reflatten the skin, and re >rivit the stiffener---or live with it? It's .016 skin, so I don't know >how much reworking I can do. It's not horrible, but noticeable on the >shinny skin. >TIA >Ed Cole N648RV (R'svd) RV6A >ecole(at)ix.netcom.com > Ed I made two similar mistakes on my elevator. Most of the advice that I received (including from Tom at Vans) was to leave it alone. I decided that I was prepared to replace the skin immediately so tried some of the "fix-it" advice. The only thing that reduced the rise a little was tapping it down while holding a timber backing plate shaped to fit over the stiffener and rivet shop head. One of my raised heads was 0.02" and this was reduced to about 0.012" after tapping it down. I also drilled the whole stiffner out to see why the head was raised. Had the rivet spread between the skin and stiffner or had I driven the skin and stiffner out by not holding them down on the backing plate while riveting ? I didn't damage the holes but the skin was stretched at the original raised rivet hole and could oilcan after re riveting so I replaced the skin and stiffners. I decided to replace the skin because I had only spent 15 hrs on it to that stage and did not want to spend another 25 hrs to complete the elevator and then decide to redo it. Regards Ross ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Phone: +61 077 538570 W +61 077 753192 H Fax : +61 077 538600 W Email: Ross.Rebgetz(at)tvl.tcp.csiro.au Mail : CSIRO Davies Laboratory Private Mail Bag Aitkenvale Qld 4814 Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1996
From: n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen)
Subject: Reno Air Races
Hi, Does anyone know the dates of the Reno Air Races this year? Thanks, Peter B. Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com ___________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1996
From: PAUL_ROSALES(at)prodigy.com (MR PAUL A ROSALES)
Subject: RE:When to order wing kit
In response to when to order your wing kit, I agree with Ed Cole. Plan on 12 weeks+ and there will be no surprises. By the way, my tail section took ~210 hours: It's by far not perfect but it's all mine! Happy Building! Paul A. Rosales RV-6A, N628PV Starting leading edges (building both wings side by side) Lancaster, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Update and Question
Ken, You might ry your local friendly FBO. I did and was surprised when he said sure, ok to use his tall jacks. A hardware bolt in the tie down hole, jack up one and do your thing, then the other. It sure was cheap. Maybe our FBO is just very friendly. Benefits of a small airport. John D My question is; how do you jack up the plane to change tires after the wheel >pants and gear fairings are on? I understand taking off the wheel pants, >but the leg fairings I will be using are not removeable and puting a pipe >into the center of the axle will work for the removal process but not the >reinstall and adjusting of the axle nut. >Ken Gray ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: RV6A tail light
If you are talking about Vans leading edge plastic lens cover, then it will pass the >requirements< of the FAA. It has to do with the angular from ahead to the side. If your inspector doesn't pass it, then you are in deep stuff. No telling what else he has a personnal vendetta against. The main thing, the reuirement for the tip lights to show behind the aitcraft is only a few degrees. If you notice, the whelans etc normally have an opaque cover there. It may be against the reg to show the red or blue over x degrees to the read of abeam. John D > >B F: I initially was goingto put the nav lights under the tip lenses. Then >I got to thinking, the lights are there for safety reasons and a light >mounted under a lens is not as visible as one mounted on the tip, is most >likely not legal and may or may not pass certification inspection. If you > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Seats
Rusty, For a temporary solution, get one sheet of house styrofoam insulation. You can cut it to fit easy, it's light, it's almost comfortable, and after he gets his final seats, the styro is ideal for heigth adjustments for kids in Young Eagle etc. Mine is 3/4 inch, and a piece of tape will keep them together. John D >Regards: >Rusty Gossard >N47RG RV-4 Flying > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1996
From: Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com>
Subject: Re: When To Order Wing Kit?
If you've done enought of the wing kit to decide you want to build a RV order the wing kit. Dan Boudro RV-4 On 5 Mar 1996 sceptrecal.ccmail.compuserve.com!Terryg(at)matronics.com wrote: > Folks -- I'm now well into my HS, and as my skills improve, I find > that I'm picking up speed a little. I'm no where NEAR finishing, but > on the other hand, I now know it's NOT going to take forever. > > Wanting to avoid any potential down time, I was wondering when others > have ordered their wing kit. After you finished the HS? HS and VS? > Ideally, the wing kit shows up the day you set the last rivet in the > empennage. > > Any thoughts or comments would be very much appreciate. > > Cheers... > > Terry in Calgary > "Horizontal Stabilizer" > > PS. In case you're wondering, my change in email address reflects a > decision to receive the RV-LIST at work, as opposed to home. I can > still be reached at the old address, as well, but the address at work > is terryg(at)sceptrecal.ccmail.compuserve.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder
Ed, If you are like me, you will live with it. Remember if you go back and try to reflatten the skin, what you are actually doing is 'working' the skin and may well end up with a larger 'blister'. As you work along, you will find that some things like this are more acceptable than the results of an attempted cure. This is one of the voices of experience coming through. :-) If I had repurchased skin etc for all of my boo boos like this, I would have about 75,000 in it and wouldn't be finished yet! Finishing with sandable primer and a decent paint job covers alot of this stuff. Remember, you actually 'scuff up' the skin to prime it. John D >My question is--Can I drill out the rivets, reflatten the skin, and re >rivit the stiffener---or live with it? It's .016 skin, so I don't know >how much reworking I can do. It's not horrible, but noticeable on the >shinny skin. >TIA >Ed Cole N648RV (R'svd) RV6A >ecole(at)ix.netcom.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1996
From: Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder
IMHO I'd live with it, it's suprising how all these horrors vanish on a finished, painted AC. Dan RV-4 N9167Z Albuquerque On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, EDWARD COLE wrote: > Fellow builders, > last night I back riveted the stiffeners to the rudder skin. On the > first stiffener I riveted, I used a little too much pressure and the > skin bulges out around the rivets slightly. It looks a little unsightly > but is structurally sound. The other stiffeners went on perfectly. > My question is--Can I drill out the rivets, reflatten the skin, and re > rivit the stiffener---or live with it? It's .016 skin, so I don't know > how much reworking I can do. It's not horrible, but noticeable on the > shinny skin. > TIA > Ed Cole N648RV (R'svd) RV6A > ecole(at)ix.netcom.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1996
From: Becki Orndorff <rso(at)css.ncifcrf.gov>
Subject: RV Forum - EAA Chapter 524
I hope you all don't mind if I post this. I hope to get the information to the builders in Canada as the post office returned all the fliers sent to Canada - some rule about everything being in an envelope. This is the text of the flyer. EAA CHAPTER 524 RV FORUM You are cordially invited to attend EAA Chapter 524's seventh RV Forum to be held on Friday and Saturday, April 12 & 13, 1996. The RV Forum will be held at the Frederick Community College Aviation Technology Hanger, which is south of the main parking lot at Frederick Airport (FDK), Frederick, Maryland. We are planning two full days of programs including presentations, exhibits, practical hands-on workshops, and tours of local RV builder's shops. Emphasis will be on the RV-3, RV-4, and RV-6(A) aircraft and on construction techniques applicable to most aluminum monocoque aircraft. This year awards will be presented for the best RV-3, RV-4, RV-6 and RV-6A. There will be plenty of time for hanger talk before, during and after the forum. The registration fee includes a catered lunch each day. A banquet will be held on Friday night at an additional cost. Please send your registration form no later than March 15, 1996. Forum schedules will be mailed in March. Requests for refunds will be honored if received prior to March 29, 1996. Advance registration is discounted and preferred. Check in and registration at the door will start April 11, 1996 at 7:00 p.m. Special programs will be available for your spouse or guest. If you have any questions, please feel free to call David Liston at 301-831-3008 or Jerry Blake at 301-416-0491. LODGING: Days Inn and Comfort Inn in Frederick will offer rooms at special rates for the forum. For reservations, please contact Days Inn at 301-694-6600 or Comfort Inn at 301-695-6200. Mention you are attending the EAA RV FORUM. GROUND TRANSPORTATION: The Days Inn and Comfort Inn can provide free transportation between the hotel and airport. Make sure you ask for this service when making your hotel reservation. Rental cars are available through Alamo (800)327-9633, Budget (800)527-0700, Enterprise (800)325-8007, Hertz (800)654-3131, Rent-A-Honda (301)662-8888, Sears (800)527-0770. FREDERICK AIRPORT INFO: If you bring your own tie downs, space is available at no charge in front of the Aviation Technology Hanger. Fuel may be obtained from Frederick Aviation (123.0) or Control Aero. Use a right hand pattern for runway 5 or 12; left hand pattern for runway 23 or 30. Runway 1/19 is closed. UNICOM is 123.0, VOR is 109.0 and AWOS is 124.875. Contact the FSS for the most current airport information. COMMERCIAL FLIGHTS: Use either Washington-Dulles International or Baltimore-Washington International airports. TELEPHONE: Emergency messages can be taken for attendees at 301-846-2532. COSTS: Forum and lunch per attendee: Pre-registered: $35 for one day $45 for both days At the door: $45 for one day $55 for both days Friday Banquet: $15 per person plus cash bar REGISTRATION: Name_________________________________________ Address______________________________________ City_________________________________________ State/Country/Zip____________________________ Phone (day)______________ (evening)__________ Days Attending Friday____ Saturday ____ Fees: Forum ($35 one day, $45 both) _______ Banquet ($15) _______ Total _______ Are you willing to give rides in your RV? (fuel provided by the RV FORUM ______________________ Please return this form with your check or money order made payable to EAA Chapter 524 to: EAA CHAPTER 524 - RV FORUM 6706 Old Stonehouse Lane New Market, MD 21774 Becki Orndorff NCI-FCRDC, Computer & Statistical Services ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1996
From: James Kelley <72466.1355(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: How much primer?
How much primer does it take to cover the inside of an RV6? Not a joke! I am using the Sherwin Williams wash primer and wondering about how much I can expect to purchase. So far I have used about two gal of reducer and a little over a gal of primer and have a lot more building to go. I know I have wasted some of the first gal just getting the feel of how it covers. Does anyone have a rought guess as to how much they used in their project from start to finish? Thanks in advance. James Kelley (Main Spars ready to rivet!) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1996
From: scottg(at)villagenet.com (scott gesele)
Subject: Re: When To Order Wing Kit?
Ordered my wing kit the day I ordered the emp kit. The pre-built spar took an extra six weeks to get (Spring/Summer '93). I did not regret this descision. I find it better to have an inventoried, stored wing kit collecting dust in the shop compared to to all my tools. I don't know about you, but my pace picks up when the warm weather comes. Guess it is some soft of motivational factor :) My suggestion is to order the wing kit NOW. Also, I planned on having each kit arrive one month prior to the date it was needed. Parts do get back-ordered. I was one of the unlucky builders hit by the "Great Rod-End Bearing Shortage of 1993). I lost three weeks on the Emp due to this :( Hope this helps. Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1996
From: James Kelley <72466.1355(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: RV-6 Cabin heat
> My oil temperature never got over 130 degrees, this with my cooler door >completely closed. On the trip out (9 degrees), I blocked the inlet area >with duct tape, reducing the inlet area by 1/2. On initial climb out, I >thought that I would have to turn back and land as cylinder head temps >approached 425 degrees. As soon as I leveled off, the temps dropped to >350-375. On the trip back, without duct tape (15 degrees), the CHT's ran at >250-275. I think I'll look into some cowl flaps before next winter. They >should be a little easier to fit with only two pipes exiting the cowl. Does >anyone have any ideas on using a MAC servo for activating the cowl flap as >opposed to a linkage that would have to be disconnected. An electrical plug >would be a little more convenient. Would the MAC servo stand up to the >heat? Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 > Can't remember the exacts, but I flew a Lancair (please forgive) that had automatic cowl flaps. The owner told me they were made from parts of a Porche. The device was a bi-metal coil that would expand or contract with temp opening and closing the cowl flap. This method looked real simple, can't say how it worked temp wise, but on taxi in the summer they were fully open and at altitude closed about half. James Kelley (main spars ready to rivet.) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 06, 1996
Subject: Re: When To Order Wing Kit?
> Wanting to avoid any potential down time, I was wondering when others > have ordered their wing kit. After you finished the HS? HS and VS? > Ideally, the wing kit shows up the day you set the last rivet in the > empennage. The first thing you need to do is contact Van's for lead time on the wing kit. It can range from in stock to 3 months, and then you can figure out whether you needed to order it yesterday... Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 06, 1996
Subject: Re: Radio wiring MX-11
>Bart at GCA also sent me an illust. of the phone & mike jacks. It includes >a fiber washer with a shoulder on it. It goes in the hole that you drill to >install the jacks, the shoulder actually fits in the hole and then the jack >goes through the washer, then there is a flat fiber washer on the other >side. What this does is insulat , from sides and in the hole, the jack stem >from the panel it's mounted through. The diagram shows the mike as a must, >but Bart suggested that both be done this way. This may have been the cause I think this depends on the intercom you're using. I'm using a Flightcom 403, and it shows the mike jack being insulated this way. They don't include the jacks or the plastic washers of course. I just used a rubber grommet of the appropriate size and it works fine. According to my intercom shematic the headphone jacks are all supposed to be grounded at the barrel, so I'll just mount them directly into the panel. -- Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1996
From: "Gene Gottschalk (286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Removable panel
All, If anyone has an AutoCAD drawing of their panel (or any other piece) you want plotted full size for fabrication, I can plot it. I have a "D" size plotter (24"x36"). It's not quite large enough for the full panel on one sheet, but it can be split along the centerline. -Gene, RV6a, finally started the firewall! ============================================================================ ========= > Reply to: Removable panel > >Garry Corde you write... >I did mine on my computer and saved my work as a print file. I brought this >to a printing shop and had a full scale drawing printed.... >-------------------- >What application program did you use to draw the pannel? --Elon > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ^ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Gene Gottschalk |N| e-mail : geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov~ ~ Goddard Space Flight Center |A| [128.183.166.137] ~ ~ Code 540/505, Hughes STX |S| Telephone : (301) 286-0708 ~ ~ Greenbelt, MD 20771 |A| FAX : (301) 286-0270 ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ^ ^ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1996
From: RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric)
Subject: Re: WTB: Rivet Squeezer & Quest
Hey Guys, I'm kind of a newbie at all of this, I'm finishing my @#$%# elevator trim tab, again. I'm trying to do this on the cheap if that at all exists in the homebuilt world. I feel pretty comfortable with the rivet gun and am wondering why I want a rivet squeezer in the first place. Does this do some things that a 3x gun will not? Are there places that I can't use a gun/bar but can use the squeezer? I hear some of the big boys in the chapter talking with a gleam in their eye about their Avery squeezers and I just figure I have not run into the right assembly that will make me long for squeezer ownership. Besides, the wife was just saying that there has not been a single tool delivered to the front door in almost a month and I would'nt want the UPS guy to forget where I live. So could someone shed a little light my way as to why they use a squeezer instead of a gun. Eric Henson A wing by spring! >Whether you get a pneumatic or hand squeezer, you're probably going to >end up wanting more than one yoke. The larger deeper throat is handy >for a lot of stuff but for getting into tight spots, you'll need a >shallow one because those have smaller "noses" and can get in tighter. >Yes I recommend the Avery if you get a hand squeezer. I have a Tatco >with 2 yokes that are useless on my Pneumatic which I eventually broke >down and bought. The deeper Avery yokes also don't have as much problem >with bending rivets since they're much beefier than the tatco yokes so >they don't flex as much. >I've found it's nice to have more than one squeezer since it saves >having to change dies (and yokes!) so much. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 06, 1996
Subject: Re: Removable panel
I used what I had, Lotus Freelance for Windows. Once I loaded the driver for the printer at the printing shop (they gave me a copy on disk) I was able to scale everything. It worked out perfectly. I'm sure that thier are drafting programs that would work better but I had this and knew how to use it well. It was awesome to watch the template printout and then see the pannel in the aircraft. It could not have been any easyer. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1996
From: "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov>
Subject: Cowl Flaps
REGARDING Cowl Flaps I don't see a big issue of electric vs. mechanical linkage for the cowl flaps. An electric plug will most likely be safety wired and the mechanical device will have a cotter key. Other than making the linkage, the ease-of-disconnect will be irrelevant compared to the cost. However, if you really wanted to reduce pilot work load (but increase complexity and cost) develop an AUTOMATIC system. Run a thermocouple from the hottest cylinder to a controller (with or without active feedback) and drive an electric cowl flap motor. Viola! you not have steady-state cylinder head temps, reduced work load and longer engine life. You also have complexity, failure points, and increased cost. I'm no EE but the easiest way to do it would be "open-loop" with a stepper motor. You would have to experiment (fly) different scenarios to collect data for a look-up table with different OAT, MP, and CT vs. cowl flap positions, and then burn in a PROM. I don't know how to solve the altitude problem (less mass flow = less heat conductivity) but someone else will. So is some brave soul going to experiment for all of us to create a fail-safe, low cost, and light weight device? -Elon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1996
From: "Steve Day" <sday(at)pharmcomp.com>
Subject: Re: WTB: Rivet Squeezer & Quest
>I'm kind of a newbie at all of this, I'm finishing my @#$%# elevator trim >tab, again. I'm trying to do this on the cheap if that at all exists in the >homebuilt world. I feel pretty comfortable with the rivet gun and am >wondering why I want a rivet squeezer in the first place. Does this do some >things that a 3x gun will not? Are there places that I can't use a gun/bar >but can use the squeezer? Eeeeek. I think my rv would look like a block of swiss cheese if I didn't have a squeezer. I've found that the pneumatic battering ram doesn't work well in some spots that you can't get the bucking bar in real good. Even if you can get the bucking bar in, I prefer to use the squeezer whenever possible. My order of preference for tools is: C tool - makes absolutely perfect shop ends Squeezer - hard to make mistakes on the surface, but possible to bend the shop end over Rivet gun - Have to use when the other tools won't get to the rivet. Just my opinion :-) -Steve Day sday(at)pharmcomp.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1996
From: "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov>
Subject: Reno Air Races
REGARDING Reno Air Races The 2nd week in September 9-15. Make your reseravtions ASAP because the entire town fills-up fast. There is an 800 number for RENO information (but don't know it). The Hilton is 800/648-5080. The best time is mid-week because you can mingle (on the line and in the hangers) with all of the racers thrashing to make time trials. On race days your are hearded (and excluded) with all the rest of the crowd. The following week is a Grand Prix race (the reason the air races were moved up a week). -Elon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1996
From: dls(at)neptune.kpt.arl.psu.edu (Dan Shades)
Subject: Re: WTB: Rivet Squeezer & Quest
Eric, I think you can get along without a squeezer just fine if you are trying to save a buck. I am building a -4 on the cheap and I save ALOT of money making my own tools, including a dimple machine that has a jack type handle on it so you do not have to beat on it. If you got the money there are alot of nice tools out there but if you have the time you can make your own tools that do just as good of job and you can use a little imagination in the process. (I built my dimple machine for $25) Dan Shades RV-4 wing> > > > > >Hey Guys, > >I'm kind of a newbie at all of this, I'm finishing my @#$%# elevator trim >tab, again. I'm trying to do this on the cheap if that at all exists in the >homebuilt world. I feel pretty comfortable with the rivet gun and am >wondering why I want a rivet squeezer in the first place. Does this do some >things that a 3x gun will not? Are there places that I can't use a gun/bar >but can use the squeezer? > >I hear some of the big boys in the chapter talking with a gleam in their eye >about their Avery squeezers and I just figure I have not run into the right >assembly that will make me long for squeezer ownership. Besides, the wife >was just saying that there has not been a single tool delivered to the front >door in almost a month and I would'nt want the UPS guy to forget where I >live. So could someone shed a little light my way as to why they use a >squeezer instead of a gun. > >Eric Henson >A wing by spring! > > > >>Whether you get a pneumatic or hand squeezer, you're probably going to >>end up wanting more than one yoke. The larger deeper throat is handy >>for a lot of stuff but for getting into tight spots, you'll need a >>shallow one because those have smaller "noses" and can get in tighter. > >>Yes I recommend the Avery if you get a hand squeezer. I have a Tatco >>with 2 yokes that are useless on my Pneumatic which I eventually broke >>down and bought. The deeper Avery yokes also don't have as much problem >>with bending rivets since they're much beefier than the tatco yokes so >>they don't flex as much. > >>I've found it's nice to have more than one squeezer since it saves >>having to change dies (and yokes!) so much. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1996
From: "Gene Gottschalk (286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: WTB: Rivet Squeezer & Quest
>I'm kind of a newbie at all of this, I'm finishing my @#$%# elevator trim >tab, again. What, only twice? I'm trying to do this on the cheap if that at all exists in the >homebuilt world. I feel pretty comfortable with the rivet gun and am >wondering why I want a rivet squeezer in the first place. Does this do some >things that a 3x gun will not? Are there places that I can't use a gun/bar >but can use the squeezer? I guess you can use the rivet gun for most anything you could use the squeezer for. However, a couple of billion more rivets and you'll get tired of hearing the gun bang. In some locations (although none come to mind immediately) the gun may be a little too much force on the 3/32 rivets in the thinner skins. Later on you may start looking for the easy way out. I picked up a pneumatic squeezer at S&F last year and am now wondering what level of insanity caused me to wait that long. The squeezer seems faster than the gun and the pneumatic squeezer is another level of magnitude faster (not really, but seems that way). I think you get consistently better rivet set as well. Good luck Gene, RV6A, started firewall ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ^ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Gene Gottschalk |N| e-mail : geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov~ ~ Goddard Space Flight Center |A| [128.183.166.137] ~ ~ Code 540/505, Hughes STX |S| Telephone : (301) 286-0708 ~ ~ Greenbelt, MD 20771 |A| FAX : (301) 286-0270 ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ^ ^ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: frankv(at)pec.co.nz
Date: Mar 07, 1996
Subject: RV-4 crash in NZ
Sad news guys. On the TV news last night I saw an item on a homebuilt crash at Ardmore airfield. I recognised the plane as Gary Spicer's beautiful red RV-4. The commentary said that he'd had a engine failure shortly after takeoff. Both occupants were taken to hospital, but fortunately their injuries aren't life-threatening. On the radio news this morning was an item which referred to a "recent light aircraft crash" (I'm not sure whether this was Gary's RV or not). The news item cautioned pilots in NZ to not use the new 96 unleaded mogas (previously our 96 mogas was leaded). The item stated that the unleaded fuel had caused the aircraft's fuel seals to fail. (I can't quite understand using mogas in a plane in NZ; 100LL Avgas costs 91c/litre and 96 mogas costs 94c/litre (mostly due to taxes). Frank.


February 27, 1996 - March 06, 1996

RV-Archive.digest.vol-bd