RV-Archive.digest.vol-bd
February 27, 1996 - March 06, 1996
>Now, if somebody has a cost-effective and simple AOA device, THAT would be
>the
>best solution (and be the first thing in my panel).
Somebody asked about this several weeks ago and I will offer the same
info I answered with then. Page 43, "Craftsman's Corner" of the January
1979 SPORT AVIATION magazine discusses an inexpensive homebuilt AOA
indicator. It is pitot/static based and uses an airspeed indicator with a
repainted dial face to indicate units of AOA.
This idea was obtained from EAA Chapter 124 (Santa Rosa, CA) newsletter,
which attributed the design to Lyle S Power, Jr., M.D., EAA 38012, 117 El
Camino Corto, Walnut Creek, CA 94596. This address is 17 years old, so I
can't say it is still good. I cannot personally vouch for this device,
but they claim it worked great.
Mike Kukulski (kukulskim(at)aol.com)
RV-4 N96MK (installing trim cable)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | KUKULSKIM(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Elevator counterbalance weights |
Subject: Re: RV-List: Elevator counterbalance weights
Sent: 2/26/96 22:49
Previously written:
>PLEASE BE CARFULL, Molten lead is VERY
>DANGEROUS!!!!!!!
This particular buffoon can second this statement. I also recommend the
use of modeling clay to dam up the counterbalance arm before pouring
versus the crumpled aluminum foil method. Also use a heavy scrap piece of
plywood to protect the floor if it is something you'd rather not damage.
I say this because I used the aluminum foil, wondered how so much molten
lead could go into the counterbalance cavity, looked under the elevator,
and saw my lead hardening on the kraft paper I had put on the floor for
"protection". Yup, no lead on the floor, but molten lead will transfer
heat quite nicely through brown paper and burn the heck out of your
wife's kitchen vinyl flooring. Then you stop RV a-buildin' and make like
Bob Vila with the kitchen floor renovation. Bad business!!!
Mike Kukulski (kukulskim(at)aol.com)
RV-4 N96MK (Installing trim cable)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Static Ports: Flush vs Domed |
>Static ports are sensitive things. It is possible to change the pressure
that
>is
>sensed by placing obstructions around or near them to adjust airspeed
>calibrations. The location of the ports on the fuselage may require
>compensation
>to account for a non zero pressure coefficient in that area. The domed shape
>may
>provide a necessary pressure increment not available from the machined flush
>ones. Have any of the members switched?
>
>David Fried
>DF-6 C-____
>dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
I used the flush ones from Spruce & Specialty. They work great in the
location specified by Van's.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MaynardB(at)snowmass.ksc.nasa.gov |
Subject: | AIR FOIL TEMPLATES/ FUS. JIG |
Does anyone around the Central Florida area have a pair of good RV6A air
foil templates I could borrow for a few days. Also does anyone
(Florida)have an RV6A fus. jig to sell .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
I have requested the names of any RV builders who have purchased this
system. Two RV 4 builders have bought it, one is not flying yet and the he
is checking on the other. I will keep you posted.
Ross Mickey
Skinning Fuse 6A
>RV-listers,
> He spoke at our last Chapter 40 EAA meeting. He also sells
>IvoProps (he make the electronic constant speed control unit for Ivo) and a
>neat Electronic Ignition magneto replacement. The units seemed quite well
>made.
>
> On some homebuilts with sensitive pitch, the spring actuation may
>not be sufficient, however for wing levelling and GPS tracking he claims
>good results. The unit does respond to both slow and fast (i.e.
>turbulence) inputs and is basically a "heading maintainer" driven by a GPS
>output. Since the GPS only has about a 1 second update rate, an additional
>motion based sensor is used for the turbulence induced corrections. The
>hook up is via springs and large RC servo units (nicely cost effective --
>BTW, the MAC servos we use are loosely based on the old Kraft RC servo
>technology - both from Vista, CA.).
> The physical aileron hook-up seems identical to Vans optional
>"manual aileron trim" hookup. I would guess that the manual trim lever
>could be replaced by the RC servo, the same springs used, and manual trim
>would be achieved by means of the panel mounted trim knob on the control
>unit. He regards the spring hookup as part of the safety system, allowing
>user overide at any time.
>
> Seems to be a neat application of GPS technology.
>
> Sounds like we should get one of the flying RV-listers to try it
>out ..... :^) ... if it works well, it's a lot cheaper than the Navaid
>unit. He has several units out flying, but I'm not sure if any are
>installed in a RV. Any volunteers??
>
> Personally, I am going to buy one of his Electronic ignition units
>as soon as I start intalling my engine. I presently have a 1800 TT
>O-320-E2G with two Slick "throw-away" mags that are now deemed unairworthy
>by Slick ... :^( The electronic ignition unit is approximately the same
>price as a new exchange mag., with a claimed 8 to 10 percent savings in
>cruise fuel consumption, purely by getting the correct ignition timing
>based on rpm and manifold pressure. One mag. and one elec. ign. unit seems
>a good compromise between technolgy and back-up systems.
>
>
> ... Gil Alexander
>
>gil(at)rassp.hac.com
>RV-6A, #20701 .... canopy and internal stuff, going on vacation
> back to England this week, will see if Andair fuel
> selector valves are any cheaper there .. :^)
>
>
>>He uses model airplane servos with springs to control the ailerons and
>>elevator on your RV. I think in turbulence I would like a little more
>>positive control, and a means to disconnect it if necessary.
>>
>>Fred Stucklen Rv-6A N925RV
>>
>>
>>
>>>Has anyone checked out the autopilots and fuel injection systems availible
>>>through Empire Development? Check out the home page at
>>>http://user.aol.com/chanik/ed. The three axis autopilot is selling for
>>>$700. Sounds to good to be true.
>>>
>>>Here is the discription:
>>>
>>>
>>>The SE5b is a tri-axis trim-tab autopilot, implementing pitch and roll
>>>control with 1/4-scale servo motors and relying, for its input, on a
>>>combination ofGPS or Loran receiver for heading/bearing/XTE information, a
>>>solid-state pressure sensor for altitude data and dual tilt
>>>sensors for improved system response. The unit operates in any of these
>>>three modes:
>>>I) Conventional electric trim control (default), via a push-button quad.
>>>II) Match bearing, when the unit adjusts roll trim in order to track heading
>>>to way-point bearing.
>>>III) Hold heading, when the unit tracks to maintain the current heading.
>>>In either mode II or III, the unit holds pressure altitude to that which was
>>>recorded when the unit was engaged. The SE5b can read NMEA-0183b format from
>>>the GPS/Loran and will hold +/-2deg on heading and +/-50ft on altitude. The
>>>unit draws 2 Amps, and includes servo reversing and an LED mode/status
>>>indicator. This system is intended for day-VFR use only. Cost is $699.00
>>>complete with two trim servos, connection hardware, LED mode indicator and 4
>>>micro push-button switches. (The 2-axis version is $599.00 with one servo.)
>>>The unit even has provisions to accept future upgrades to the flight control
>>>software. High-Torque servos for direct connection to control linkages are
>>>available for an additional $30 per axis. There is a 60-day money-back
>>>guarantee as well as a 1-year warranty.
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
Subject: | Re: R. M. Encoder as Stall Warning Device |
I wrote to Dr. Power about two weeks ago and haven't heard anything back.
I'll let you know if I do.
Ross Mickey
Skining Fuse 6A
>You wrote:
>
>>Now, if somebody has a cost-effective and simple AOA device, THAT would be
>>the
>>best solution (and be the first thing in my panel).
>
>Somebody asked about this several weeks ago and I will offer the same
>info I answered with then. Page 43, "Craftsman's Corner" of the January
>1979 SPORT AVIATION magazine discusses an inexpensive homebuilt AOA
>indicator. It is pitot/static based and uses an airspeed indicator with a
>repainted dial face to indicate units of AOA.
>
>This idea was obtained from EAA Chapter 124 (Santa Rosa, CA) newsletter,
>which attributed the design to Lyle S Power, Jr., M.D., EAA 38012, 117 El
>Camino Corto, Walnut Creek, CA 94596. This address is 17 years old, so I
>can't say it is still good. I cannot personally vouch for this device,
>but they claim it worked great.
>
>Mike Kukulski (kukulskim(at)aol.com)
>RV-4 N96MK (installing trim cable)
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Robert Acker <75104.3077(at)compuserve.com> |
Subject: | R.M. Encoder as Stall Warning Device |
>> I think you are confusing an increase in stall speed with an increase in
the load factor. <<
I already got called on this one...I forgot to take the square of the load first
before multiplying by Vso.
>> >60 deg. bank - 112 mph (yikes!) * Yikes is right - I'd sure hate to fly
this airplane. <<
At least I got the "yikes" part right .
Rob.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
Subject: | Re: Pitot & Quadrant |
I'll respond to the first question. I used a #8 screw/platenut on both
sides. I drilled a #55 hole right through the screw, you'll find 1/4"
tube fits over it perfectly. I left about 2" extention in that longeron
for this but it would work just fine at the bulkhead too.
Dan
On Fri, 23 Feb 1996, Peter B. Mortensen wrote:
> To the RV Net:
>
> Four questions:
>
> 1. Does anyone have a source or idea of how to make or buy a set of
> nice little fittings for the pitot static lines where they come out the
> rear of the fuselage? (I think that a big pop-rivet is a bit
> Mickey-Mouse). I have searched hardware stores but found nothing
> exactly right.
>
> 2. I am building a -4. Could someone please tell me the pros/cons of
> using a throttle quadrant with levers versus using push pull cables.
>
> 3. I will use a wood prop. If I buy a quadrant, should I use two or
> three levers? Does anyone use the third lever for carb heat? If so,
> how do you like that?
>
> 4. I think I would prefer my throttle on the right side but most RV-4s
> seem to have it on the left. If I put it on the right, is that a big
> mistake?
>
> Thanks for your input, Peter B. Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com
> ______________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | mike casmey <102023.1363(at)compuserve.com> |
Subject: | Fixing Flap Hinge |
I forgot to put the hinge pin in the hinge while I was riveting one of my flaps
and it really does make a difference. The pin is quite hard to push in and I do
not want to drill out all the rivets.
Has anyone figured out a way to straighten out the hinge to make the pin go in
easier after it has been riveted on the flap. I know about cutting the pin in
half and removing some of the hinge in the center, but I prefer to leave it the
way it is and straighten it as best I can.
Thanks
Mike Casmey
Mpls, MN RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Kutschke <73244.1501(at)compuserve.com> |
Bob,
I've got all the current prices for the Frey jigs at home. I'll post them
tonight when I get home. Rentals are for a minimum of 6 months. I don't
remember the exact rental price, but with his current Sun-n-Fun pricing special
another $100 or so gets you your own jig for keeps.
Bob Kutschke
73244.1501(at)compuserve.com
Finishing up the Wings (6A)
> Bob Busick wrote:
>
>I may have missed it but how do you contact Frey to get a metal jig and
>does any one know how much he wants to rent it. I have another RV-6 friend
>in town and he needs a jig now!! If anyone has a wood jig for sale in the
>Southwest let me know. We live in Las Cruces NM.
>
>Bob Busick
>RV-6
>rbusick(at)nmsu.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Steve Day" <sday(at)pharmcomp.com> |
With all this talk of spins I've been visualizing some of the comments and
have a question for someone who has experienced a spin in the RV. How
violent are spins in the rv and how many G's are actually developed during a
spin? Is the loss of altitude really 15000 ft/min? If so, I didn't realize
you are traveling at 180mph in the vertical direction during a spin.
I'm not confident that I understand what is happening in a spin. From my
understanding the inside wing is stalled producing little or no lift and the
outside wing is not in a stall condition therefore lifting the wing which
gives the rolling motion. Also, the stalled wing is producing a lot of drag
which adds to the spin. Obviously I'm not an aerodynamicist, could someone
throw me some good details.
-Steve Day
sday(at)pharmcomp.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Kutschke <73244.1501(at)compuserve.com> |
Subject: | Firewall construction |
Has anyone tried the BAC firewall kit offered through Van's? It is similar to
the wing fast build kit with all firewall components cut, drilled, and anodized
ready to be rivetted together. BAC is saying it should cut about 40-50 hours
out of construction. So, it will probably save me 60-70 hours. The kit is $525,
which works out to around $8-9/hr for this builder.
How long does the firewall normally take, and is it that difficult to form the
many pieces that make it up? Does this kit sound worthwhile for someone wanting
to get in the air safely and affordably, yet quickly?
Bob Kutschke
73244.1501(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fixing Flap Hinge |
I'd try to put the pin in, see where it hangs and straighten each section
the best I could. Then use some dry graphite (I saw one guy use lapping
cmpd. on the net which seems like a good idea too) and drill the pin in
several times till it goes in better.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z if I only had a hanager!
On 27 Feb 1996, mike casmey wrote:
> I forgot to put the hinge pin in the hinge while I was riveting one of my flaps
> and it really does make a difference. The pin is quite hard to push in and I
do
> not want to drill out all the rivets.
> Has anyone figured out a way to straighten out the hinge to make the pin go in
> easier after it has been riveted on the flap. I know about cutting the pin in
> half and removing some of the hinge in the center, but I prefer to leave it the
> way it is and straighten it as best I can.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike Casmey
> Mpls, MN RV-4
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
Subject: | Re: Spin Question |
You wrote:
>
>With all this talk of spins I've been visualizing some of the
>comments and have a question for someone who has experienced a spin in
>the RV. How violent are spins in the rv and how many G's are actually
>developed during a spin? Is the loss of altitude really 15000 ft/min?
> If so, I didn't realize you are traveling at 180mph in the vertical
>direction during a spin.
>
>-Steve Day
>sday(at)pharmcomp.com
>
>
Come on, Steve, quit exaggerating. 15000 ft/min down is only 170 mph!
:')
Actually, I've always thought that spins had a relatively modest
descent rate and were relatively low G. I mean, haven't we all heard
the story of someone caught VFR 'on top' who spins down thru the clouds
to avoid the possibility of a 'graveyard spiral'?
I have done spins, both right-side up and upside down, in a Decathlon
and thought it was pretty mild. But, of course, a Decathlon is not an
RV. I guess there are spins and there are spins. (By the way, Gene
Littlefield was in the back seat, which might have had something to do
with my mild manner!)
I'll be interested in the responses to your questions from some of the
experienced RV 'spinsters'.
Bill Costello
--
___ _______________________
\ \ _ _ / /
\ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello \
X-*#####*******......./ Chicago /
o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on emp. \
\__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com /
\______________________\
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
Subject: | Re: Firewall construction |
The Barnard wing kit is lovely and I think very useful because it helps with
some jigging issues.
I did not use the firewall kit but I would have to say I found the firewall
building very enjoyable and if you enjoy the building process I would do it
yourself.
Leo Davies
>Has anyone tried the BAC firewall kit offered through Van's? It is similar to
>the wing fast build kit with all firewall components cut, drilled, and anodized
>ready to be rivetted together. BAC is saying it should cut about 40-50 hours
>out of construction. So, it will probably save me 60-70 hours. The kit is $525,
>which works out to around $8-9/hr for this builder.
>
>How long does the firewall normally take, and is it that difficult to form the
>many pieces that make it up? Does this kit sound worthwhile for someone wanting
>to get in the air safely and affordably, yet quickly?
>
>Bob Kutschke
>73244.1501(at)compuserve.com
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
Steve:
I haven't performed a spin in an RV (only one flight so far :-< ), but
here's some theory. Before any of you aerodynamicist jump down out of
my monitor, this is meant to be a pilot's explanation; I realize that
I'm simplifying some things here.
In a spin, both wings are stalled. The confusion about one wing being
stalled and one not probably results from the way spin entry is often
explained. The aircraft enters a spin (as opposed to just stalling
straight ahead) because one wing stalls slightly more, or slightly
deeper, than the other. This is a bit like saying that your car spins
out because the back tires start to skid before the front tires: it's
sort of true, but it doesn't matter much once they're both skidding.
Similarly, once the airplane is in the spin, both wings are equally
stalled.
A spin is a stable flight attitude, believe it or not. All aerodynamic
forces on the aircraft are balanced, so the aircraft C of G experiences
no accelerations at all (once stabilized in the spin). Consequently,
you only experience one positive G if you are sitting at the C of G
(which you are, for all practical purposes, in an RV).
That doesn't mean that a spin isn't disorienting, of course. If the
rate of rotation is high it can be a bit disconcerting (especially if
you didn't plan on spinning). However, GLOC (G-induced Loss of
Consciousness) is not an issue. If you're experiencing significant G,
you're not in a spin; you're probably in a spiral dive.
Tedd McHenry
tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
Edmonton, Canada
>
> With all this talk of spins I've been visualizing some of the comments and
> have a question for someone who has experienced a spin in the RV. How
> violent are spins in the rv and how many G's are actually developed during a
> spin? Is the loss of altitude really 15000 ft/min? If so, I didn't realize
> you are traveling at 180mph in the vertical direction during a spin.
>
> I'm not confident that I understand what is happening in a spin. From my
> understanding the inside wing is stalled producing little or no lift and the
> outside wing is not in a stall condition therefore lifting the wing which
> gives the rolling motion. Also, the stalled wing is producing a lot of drag
> which adds to the spin. Obviously I'm not an aerodynamicist, could someone
> throw me some good details.
>
>
> -Steve Day
> sday(at)pharmcomp.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jperri(at)interserv.com |
Anyone else that has a Lycoming engine in their RV not real happy with the
latest letter from Textron on the oil impeller? Engine is running so so good I
just hate to tear it down.
JMP
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
REGARDING Spin Question
The spin stuff has been interesting but so far no one has mentioned the
principle cause - cross-controlling! Now since there are 400 reviewers of
this message let me absolve myself in advance by saying each plane has
specific and individual spin characteristics - know them!!!
The reason you start the roundy - round in the first place is because you
tried to lift one of the wings (i.e. get yourself level). LIFT ALWAYS APPLIES
DRAG. So if you are already stalling both wings at the root and now add drag
(i.e. lift) to one side, that side is going to be dragged backward and your
unwanted turn commences. Think of it this way - when that aileron goes DOWN
you are actually pulling the wing (via drag) backward on that side thereby
starting a spin in that direction.
Since the FAA says most stall/spins occur near or in the pattern I'll use the
typical example. You overshoot your base leg too much. So no problem just
pull back a little and tighten the turn. So far you are O.K.. you are in
COORDINATED flight. (i.e. the ball is in the middle) which means your feet are
doing the right thing. But by pulling back you have done some naughty things.
You have further (1) lowered your air speed , (2) increased the load factor
and (3) increased the angle of attach, all bring you closer to stall.
However, being the keen pilot you are you notice the nose just starts to drop
a little, so automatically you add a little opposite rudder to get it up,
opps!! now the down wing is dropping some more (it is on the inside of the
turn and naturally going SLOWER that the high side) Well RAISE that sucker up
- NAUGHT!!! As soon as that LOW and SLOW wing feels the EXTRA
DRAG....goodnight Irene. Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
Subject: | IFR Chart Service?? |
Is anyone aware of an on-line service where I can download approach
plates for specific airports. I'd be willing to pay per chart.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | elevator cracking, data needed.... |
OK, so the elevators are cracking. Caused by dat ol' debbil vibration, right?
Does it happen to -6's at the same rate as-4's? Do CS planes have a higher
frequency of cracks? Or do wood prop planes have more? Do the .020 skins
crack too? Maybe a database would be in order, and I don't think Van's tracks
such things.
Remember, a c/s prop weighs a LOT! A small out-of-balance condition would
seem to cause a more noticable airframe vibration in such an application. How
many of the cracking planes had their props dynamically balanced? How many
had new props, vs. rebuilt units?
Seems there are a lot more factors than many of us may consider causing the
cracks, which may be a symptom, as opposed to a problem...
Stand behind your a/c while a qualified person starts the engine, and shuts
it down. Have you ever seen a tail shake that much? Pretty scary... Could
this be the cause?
My -4 cracked right away, near the inner two stiffeners, at the trailing
edge. These cracks traveled no further than 1/2" in 500+ hrs. Tha a/c was
equipped with one of those cut-down props for about 400 hr., and changed to a
Aymar-Demuth after that. Less vibration was evident after the switch.
I'm building a Rocket now, and haven't incorporated John's trailing edge mod,
although I did use .020 for the skins, simply for cosmetic reasons. I simply
connected the stiffeners with a blob of gutter sealant, as I thought all
cracking occured at the trailing edge. I could be wrong, as now I read about
cracks near the spar.
Also consider, the 6 cyl Lyc runs so much smoother than the 4 banger, it
can't be believed. This alone should lessen the possibility of cracking, I
think. I'll let ya know after 100 hr or so. If its prop induced vibration,
I'm sunk. 80" dia., 7" chord near the tip! This thing probably puts out a bit
more vibe than the std. RV prop.
As for a fix for where the stiffeners are near the spar, how about a strip of
.032 wide enough to catch the spar rivets and the first rivet on each
stiffener? K.I.S.S.
Check Six!
Mark
mlfred(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Kutschke <73244.1501(at)compuserve.com> |
Subject: | Frey fuselage jig costs |
Current prices for Frey jigs are:
RV-6/6A $150/month (6 month min.)
$1350 normal purchase price
$1150 Sun 'n Fun special purchase price (2/1/96 thru 6/15/96)
Looks like a great jig, but too rich for my blood, I'm going the wood route.
Someone recommended to me (don't recall if it was from the list) that using 2
pieces of 3/4" plywood cut and bonded together would make very straight and
strong cross beams on a wood jig. Sounds good to me, that's what I will be
using.
Bob Kutschke
73244.1501(at)compuserve.com
> Bob Busick wrote:
>
>I may have missed it but how do you contact Frey to get a metal jig and
>does any one know how much he wants to rent it. I have another RV-6 friend
>in town and he needs a jig now!! If anyone has a wood jig for sale in the
>Southwest let me know. We live in Las Cruces NM.
>
>Bob Busick
>RV-6
>rbusick(at)nmsu.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen ) |
Subject: | Re: Fixing Flap Hinge |
How about a slightly undersize pin? Just like in the cowling. Probably
need to be of stronger material than the original pin.
Finn
You wrote:
>
>I forgot to put the hinge pin in the hinge while I was riveting one of
my flaps
>and it really does make a difference. The pin is quite hard to push in
and I do
>not want to drill out all the rivets.
>Has anyone figured out a way to straighten out the hinge to make the
pin go in
>easier after it has been riveted on the flap. I know about cutting the
pin in
>half and removing some of the hinge in the center, but I prefer to
leave it the
>way it is and straighten it as best I can.
>
>
>Thanks
>
>Mike Casmey
>Mpls, MN RV-4
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Kutschke <73244.1501(at)compuserve.com> |
I'd like to know what thoughts are floating around out here about engine
choices for RVs. I have just ordered my fuselage kit (6A), and am know setting
about the process of deciding on those "important" pieces for this project. My
number one concern, of course, is safety and reliability. With that said my
next concern is cost.
My first choice is a Lycoming for all he obvious reasons: proven reliability in
RVs, other builders' support in the installation, etc. But, looking at the
price tag of a new O-320 or O-360, I'm keeping my mind open to some other
choices.
Auto engine conversions seem to be gaining momentum. Does anyone here have any
experience or opinions on any specific conversions? I have contacted NSI about
their RV6 firewall forward package which should be available in the fall.
They're sending info, so I don't know any details or prices yet.
A used Lycoming may be a more affordable solution, but I really don't like not
knowing what a used engine may have been through before I get it. I don't have
much "engine" experience, so I don't know if I would be able to judge a good
used engine from a bad one. Anybody got any helpful hints?
Finally, a brand new Lycoming sure would be nice. I'd like to hear from anyone
who has purchased directly from Van's. How was the support from Van's for the
installation? Would you do it again? How does Van's prices compare to other
Lycoming sources?
Ok, so I've got a few questions.
Bob Kutschke
73244.1501(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "E. Amadio" <e_amadio(at)vaxxine.com> |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB0568.4351E9C0
Can anyone out there scan in the drawings Van supplies for working out colour schemes?
It would be a great help for those of us who don't have access to a scanner.
Thanks in advance.
Ernie Amadio
Cessna 170-B
Shop coming together for RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
Subject: | Re: Firewall construction |
On 27 Feb 1996, Bob Kutschke wrote:
> Has anyone tried the BAC firewall kit offered through Van's? It is similar to
> the wing fast build kit with all firewall components cut, drilled, and anodized
> ready to be rivetted together. BAC is saying it should cut about 40-50 hours
> out of construction. So, it will probably save me 60-70 hours. The kit is $525,
> which works out to around $8-9/hr for this builder.
My builder's log shows that I spend approximately 27 hours on my
firewall. The thing that helped me the most was the Orndorff fuselage
construction video. You get to see how all the parts really go
together. There really is not that much fabrication to do. All the
little triangular parts are already pre-formed.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
N601DB
fuselage in the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
Subject: | Re: elevator redesign?? |
> Has anybody had success with the spray in foam? Somebody suggested this
>as a fix some time ago.
>
> Chris
Chris: I've seen this on some RV's. There is some concern about the foam
absorbing moisture and also so talk about corrosion. Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Stall Warning Device |
>>I was talking to Simon Pike from Temora this morning and he has a drawing
>>for the switch installation he used in his two RV6's. He is going to Fax me
>>a copy tomorrow (27th), if you give me your Snail mail or Fax number I'll
>>send it too you. Depending on the quality I can scan it for anyone else who
>>is interested.
>>John Morrissey
>>RV4 under construction
>
>
Please send me a copy too!!!
Gary Zilik
RV-6A 22993
FAX: 303-771-1646
E-Mail: zilik(at)aol.com
Snail Mail: 13342 Omaha St.
Pine, CO 80470
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Engine choices |
Bob,
The engines from Vans or the best buy on the market you will not be able to
find a factory new engine at a better price. As for support on installation
they give the same as for the rest of the kit but the job is still up to you.
Between some book available from the EAA a our videos you should be able to
do a good dependable installation of the engine.......George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Firewall construction |
Bob if you follow the way Becki and I show in the fuselege video you should
be able to build your firewall in a couple of evenings , know big deal people
do it all the time.
....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Johnson, Steve" <spjohnson(at)msmail.mmmg.com> |
>Anyone else that has a Lycoming engine in their RV not real happy with the
>latest letter from Textron on the oil impeller? Engine is running so so good
I
>just hate to tear it down.
>JMP
Well, I had a Citabria 7ECA which I bought new in 1973 - had it until 1992.
During that time there 2 AD notices on the engine, both on the oil impeller.
First of all, I wonder if they have it right this time, and second, I wonder
what the consequences would be on an experimental aircraft of just letting it
go.
Steve Johnson
Waiting on the RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gene Gottschalk (286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov> |
Ernie,
Tell me more. I have a scanner. What format would you like? What program
do you intend to use?
-Gene
>Can anyone out there scan in the drawings Van supplies for working out
colour schemes?
>
>It would be a great help for those of us who don't have access to a scanner.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>
>Ernie Amadio
>
>Cessna 170-B
>Shop coming together for RV-6
>
>Attachment Converted: C:\EUDORA\RERV-Li8
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
Subject: | Re: elevator cracking, data needed.... |
>OK, so the elevators are cracking. Caused by dat ol' debbil vibration, right?
>Does it happen to -6's at the same rate as-4's? Do CS planes have a higher
>frequency of cracks? Or do wood prop planes have more? Do the .020 skins
>crack too? Maybe a database would be in order, and I don't think Van's tracks
>such things.
>Remember, a c/s prop weighs a LOT! A small out-of-balance condition would
>seem to cause a more noticable airframe vibration in such an application. How
>many of the cracking planes had their props dynamically balanced? How many
>had new props, vs. rebuilt units?
>Seems there are a lot more factors than many of us may consider causing the
>cracks, which may be a symptom, as opposed to a problem...
>Stand behind your a/c while a qualified person starts the engine, and shuts
>it down. Have you ever seen a tail shake that much? Pretty scary... Could
>this be the cause?
>
>My -4 cracked right away, near the inner two stiffeners, at the trailing
>edge. These cracks traveled no further than 1/2" in 500+ hrs. Tha a/c was
>equipped with one of those cut-down props for about 400 hr., and changed to a
>Aymar-Demuth after that. Less vibration was evident after the switch.
>I'm building a Rocket now, and haven't incorporated John's trailing edge mod,
>although I did use .020 for the skins, simply for cosmetic reasons. I simply
>connected the stiffeners with a blob of gutter sealant, as I thought all
>cracking occured at the trailing edge. I could be wrong, as now I read about
>cracks near the spar.
>Also consider, the 6 cyl Lyc runs so much smoother than the 4 banger, it
>can't be believed. This alone should lessen the possibility of cracking, I
>think. I'll let ya know after 100 hr or so. If its prop induced vibration,
>I'm sunk. 80" dia., 7" chord near the tip! This thing probably puts out a bit
>more vibe than the std. RV prop.
>As for a fix for where the stiffeners are near the spar, how about a strip of
>.032 wide enough to catch the spar rivets and the first rivet on each
>stiffener? K.I.S.S.
>Check Six!
>Mark
>mlfred(at)aol.com
>
Mark:
The guess around these parts we think it is prop pulse related. Bill at
Van's says it is showing up earlier in high h.p. c/s installations. Not
that it doesn't show up in the lower h.p. lumber birds. Look at the stop
drills in Van's 4.
I plan on building a set of control surfaces with stiffeners extended
between the spar and skin.. The back seems to have been resolved with the
glob of goo.
I had Hartzell balance my prop and it runs smooth for a 4 banger, still got
the cracks. So I guess we have to beef up the tail. Plus I'll feel a little
better
when I yank and bank and the G meter starts going up.:-)
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying(With cracks patched)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
> The spin stuff has been interesting but so far no one has mentioned the
> principle cause - cross-controlling! Now since there are 400 reviewers of
> this message let me absolve myself in advance by saying each plane has
> specific and individual spin characteristics - know them!!!
Good point, Elon. And I would add that incipient spin recognition
is more important than skill at recovery because, as you pointed out,
the fatal spins often happen when there's insufficient altitude to
recover anyway. Before anyone goes ballistic, I don't mean to
understate the importance of spin recovery technique, just to state
that prevention is better than cure.
Tedd McHenry
tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
Edmonton, Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Arrowbat(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: AIR FOIL TEMPLATES/ FUS. JIG |
I might be able to help you out with the templates...??
You can email me at Arrowbat(at)aol.com
Mike Calhoon
RV6 left wing
Orlando
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Firewall construction |
>ready to be rivetted together. BAC is saying it should cut about 40-50 hours
>out of construction. So, it will probably save me 60-70 hours. The kit is
>$525,
>which works out to around $8-9/hr for this builder.
>
>How long does the firewall normally take, and is it that difficult to form
>the
>many pieces that make it up? Does this kit sound worthwhile for someone
>wanting
>to get in the air safely and affordably, yet quickly?
>
I think BAC is trying to sell firewalls. I spent 17 hours building mine,
including priming all the angles, building a simple drill jig, (ala Orndorff)
and mounting in the fuse jig. Two other local builders spent 15 and 22 hours
respectively.
IMHO, the firewall is one of the easiest, most straightforward parts of the
airplane. You'll spend a bit of "hmmm time" puzzling out the assembly of the
shim pieces, but it isn't really too difficult.
I don't have a lot of extra time OR money, but I do have a bit more time. I
can find a lot of ways to spend an extra $525.
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
This is just another chapter in the oil pump story with the Lyc. engines.
This has been going on for years. You have about a 50/50 chance that the
"new and improved" version will be better than the old. I think Lyc.
should make a quick-change oil pump, perhaps one that is held on with
Velcro.
Here we go again --Chris
>
> Anyone else that has a Lycoming engine in their RV not real happy with the
> latest letter from Textron on the oil impeller? Engine is running so so good
I
> just hate to tear it down.
>
> JMP
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fixing Flap Hinge |
OK, it's time to step back and think about this... Do you really want
to fly the plane with a Mickey-moused hinge? Even if it works just fine,
the question will be nagging at you for years. I say drill out the hinge
and do it right. Hinge is cheap, and it's only a few hours of work.
There is no room for "good enough" when it come to airplanes.
Chris
>
> How about a slightly undersize pin? Just like in the cowling. Probably
> need to be of stronger material than the original pin.
>
> Finn
>
> You wrote:
> >
> >I forgot to put the hinge pin in the hinge while I was riveting one of
> my flaps
> >and it really does make a difference. The pin is quite hard to push in
> and I do
> >not want to drill out all the rivets.
> >Has anyone figured out a way to straighten out the hinge to make the
> pin go in
> >easier after it has been riveted on the flap. I know about cutting the
> pin in
> >half and removing some of the hinge in the center, but I prefer to
> leave it the
> >way it is and straighten it as best I can.
> >
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >Mike Casmey
> >Mpls, MN RV-4
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rbusick(at)nmsu.edu (Robert Busick) |
Subject: | Re: Engine choices |
Bob
After much research and soul searching about the same issue, I have
determined it really does not make any difference. No matter what engine
you get, in the long run it will cost the same. It seems to be a matter of
pay now (for new engine) or pay latter (for a used engine) and the prices
of most auto engines are very close to the cost of a new lycoming!
I have heard of people who have put in $5000 auto engines, but no
one tells us the maintenance, modification and converstions that happen
between the 100 hours and 2000 hours. Things that seem to work well at 150
hours may not do so at 1100 hours. I have also heard of someone buying a
factory new 0-360 remanufactured engine for $1800. There are so many myths
about engines, it is hard to seperate the facts from generally held
viewpoints that may have no basis in fact. As far as not trusting a used
engine, that is a personal risk you have to take. But can you trust a new
engine, and how much are you willing to trust an auto engine? I would
trust a used engine more that I would trust an auto conversion. After all
the lycomings are basically the same as 1932 tractor engines, tough,
reliable, lightweight engines with a great performance history that can run
for 2000+ hours!. Can the auto engines beat that combination, maybe and
maybe not.
My experience is that what ever you buy, someone will tell you that
he could have gotten a much better deal (they tell you this only after you
buy). If you do get a real good deal then people will not beleive you and
tell you the engine was way below market value and there must be something
seriously wrong with the engine.
As for judging a good from a bad used engine, in most cases this
can not be done until the entire engine has been torn down. There are
indications that you can use, but if the crank is bad or the cam is badly
worn you will have a hard time determining this without inspection.
My advice: buy exactly what you want and what YOU will be happy
with, and don't worrry about what everyone else says. This is your
airplane you will fly it and your will have to live with it.
Bob Busick
RV-6
0-360, fuel injection, electronic ignition, because that is what I want!!
>I'd like to know what thoughts are floating around out here about engine
>choices for RVs. I have just ordered my fuselage kit (6A), and am know setting
>about the process of deciding on those "important" pieces for this project. My
>number one concern, of course, is safety and reliability. With that said my
>next concern is cost.
>
>My first choice is a Lycoming for all he obvious reasons: proven reliability in
>RVs, other builders' support in the installation, etc. But, looking at the
>price tag of a new O-320 or O-360, I'm keeping my mind open to some other
>choices.
>
>Auto engine conversions seem to be gaining momentum. Does anyone here have any
>experience or opinions on any specific conversions? I have contacted NSI about
>their RV6 firewall forward package which should be available in the fall.
>They're sending info, so I don't know any details or prices yet.
>
>A used Lycoming may be a more affordable solution, but I really don't like not
>knowing what a used engine may have been through before I get it. I don't have
>much "engine" experience, so I don't know if I would be able to judge a good
>used engine from a bad one. Anybody got any helpful hints?
>
>Finally, a brand new Lycoming sure would be nice. I'd like to hear from anyone
>who has purchased directly from Van's. How was the support from Van's for the
>installation? Would you do it again? How does Van's prices compare to other
>Lycoming sources?
>
>Ok, so I've got a few questions.
>
>Bob Kutschke
>73244.1501(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE ) |
Subject: | Re: Engine choices |
The price I got from NSI for their "first run" of engines was
$20.000 firewall fwd pkg for RV6. No savings here!
Ed Cole
You wrote:
>
>I'd like to know what thoughts are floating around out here about
engine
>choices for RVs. I have just ordered my fuselage kit (6A), and am know
setting
>about the process of deciding on those "important" pieces for this
project. My
>number one concern, of course, is safety and reliability. With that
said my
>next concern is cost.
>
>My first choice is a Lycoming for all he obvious reasons: proven
reliability in
>RVs, other builders' support in the installation, etc. But, looking at
the
>price tag of a new O-320 or O-360, I'm keeping my mind open to some
other
>choices.
>
>Auto engine conversions seem to be gaining momentum. Does anyone here
have any
>experience or opinions on any specific conversions? I have contacted
NSI about
>their RV6 firewall forward package which should be available in the
fall.
>They're sending info, so I don't know any details or prices yet.
>
>A used Lycoming may be a more affordable solution, but I really don't
like not
>knowing what a used engine may have been through before I get it. I
don't have
>much "engine" experience, so I don't know if I would be able to judge
a good
>used engine from a bad one. Anybody got any helpful hints?
>
>Finally, a brand new Lycoming sure would be nice. I'd like to hear
from anyone
>who has purchased directly from Van's. How was the support from Van's
for the
>installation? Would you do it again? How does Van's prices compare to
other
>Lycoming sources?
>
>Ok, so I've got a few questions.
>
>Bob Kutschke
>73244.1501(at)compuserve.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | COROTEC <70743.2727(at)compuserve.com> |
Subject: | leaking fuel tank |
I finally got around to pressure checking my fuel tanks after having already
mounted them to the wings.
After sealing everything off I pressurized to 10 inches of water column (about
1/2 psi) and promptly watched the pressure drop like a rock - along with my
heart. How could they leak when I had spent so much time and been so careful?
I couldn't believe what I was seeing!
When I realized that I had forgotten about the fuel caps (!) I took care of that
with a custom made plug, repressurized, and waited breathlessly and
hopefully.....
Well, they still leak... although nowhere near as bad as the first test. If I
pressurize to 5 in. w.c. they will leak down about 1 in of w.c. per hour or so.
BTW, per Vans these tanks have not been sloshed.
I will be removing the tanks in the near future to determine exactly where the
#$@&* leaks are. Once this is known, how have those of you who might be as
unfortunate as I am sealed them? Can you suck a vaccum on the tank and pull
slosh or some other sealant in where the leaks are? Or, did you just go ahead
and slosh first to see if that took care of the leaks? What do you think would
be the best approach?
Any help - as always - would be appreciated.
Bruce Stobbe
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | sarg314(at)AZStarNet.com (Tom Sargent) |
I saw an e-mail yesterday claiming that IVOprops were unreliable.
I have 2 questions: 1) does any one have any experience with their
reliability, 2) if they are reliable, do they perform well on an RV? I
can't recall ever seeing an IVOprop on an RV, yet their advertising says
they're the biggest selling props. What's the story?
__________________________
Tom Sargent, Synergy/Io, Tucson.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
Subject: | Re: Spin Question |
>> The spin stuff has been interesting but so far no one has mentioned the
>> principle cause - cross-controlling! Now since there are 400 reviewers of
>> this message let me absolve myself in advance by saying each plane has
>> specific and individual spin characteristics - know them!!!
>
>Good point, Elon. And I would add that incipient spin recognition
>is more important than skill at recovery because, as you pointed out,
>the fatal spins often happen when there's insufficient altitude to
>recover anyway. Before anyone goes ballistic, I don't mean to
>understate the importance of spin recovery technique, just to state
>that prevention is better than cure.
>
>Tedd McHenry
>tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
>Edmonton, Alberta
>
Tedd:
My guess is that more RV's will be spun out of attempted aerobatics than in
traditional stall spin accidents. IAC preachs good spin recovery techniques
because the more you "play around" the more likely it is that you will fall
out of something into a spin. It's no big deal if you recognize whats
happening and deal with it. The amazing thing is how many experienced
aerobatic pilots screw
airplanes into the ground. My RV will just about recover on it's own if you
just let go.
I like the method IAC preachs....1. power off 2. let go or neutralize controls
3. hard rudder to stop turn (if you can't figure out which way you are
turning step on either one, if it works ,great. If it doesn't work, step on
the other one and it will) 4. get it right side up 5. power back on in
slight descent
It's worked for me. I've fallen out of more than one maneuver in my time.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Kutschke <73244.1501(at)compuserve.com> |
Subject: | BAC firewall package |
George,
Thanks for the advice. I have decided against the BAC package. Just talked to
Van's, and it turns out that they will now be supplying the firewall and
components pre-drilled and clecoed together with all 6/6A fuselage kits. So I
get to keep my $525 and get a few more of those magical clecoes.
BTW: Thanks for those videos. You and Becki have saved me, and I'm sure others,
countless hours of confusion and dismay. I just got the fuselage tapes and
can't wait to watch them.
Bob Kutschke
73244.1501(at)compuserve.com
>>Message ID: 321-71242
>>Date: 2/28/96 9:46 AM
>>From: INTERNET:OrndorffG(at)aol.com
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Firewall construction
>>
>>Bob if you follow the way Becki and I show in the fuselege video you should
>>be able to build your firewall in a couple of evenings , know big deal
>>people do it all the time.
>>....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | ward9(at)llnl.gov (Rich Ward) |
Subject: | Re: leaking fuel tank |
>Well, they still leak... although nowhere near as bad as the first test. If I
>pressurize to 5 in. w.c. they will leak down about 1 in of w.c. per hour or so.
You probably know this but just in case you don't, this version of a water
manometer is also a very sensitive thermometer. I remember when I did this
I opened my garage door in the moring and let in a bunch of cold air in and
the water level dropped an inch in a few minutes.
>
>I will be removing the tanks in the near future to determine exactly where the
Before pulling the tank off, try putting a soap solution on the access
covers. Very slow leaks, even an inch/hour are detectable. The screws are
the next candidate after the fuel caps. I found a couple screws that
leaked on mine. I tightened them a half turn and they stopped. I also
gobbed a little pro seal around them for a little more peace of mind.
- Rich RV4
PS I just finished building the RMI micro encoder; it's as good as
everybody reports. The kit and the instrument itself are top notch!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JIM SCHMIDT <JIM.SCHMIDT(at)mail.mei.com> |
Subject: | leaking fuel tank -Reply |
Bruce I had the same responce with my tanks.
I found two areas where you think you have
them sealed and they really are difficult to
seal properly.
One is the fuel caps. On the first tank I
used a test ball- plumbing device and it
seemed to work fine. On the other tank I
could not get a tight seal with that and
ended up streatching a balloon over the fuel
cap and retesting. It took several tries
before this worked.
So be sure your test plug is indeed tight.
Mine would leak and still show no bubbles
when sprayed with soap.
Secondly I had tie wraped a plastic tube
for a manomanter on the fuel input fitting.
Again it is very easy to get such small leak
in this area without it creating a soap
bubble.Make really sure you have not
introducing any leaks in the temporary setup
for testing. All my problems where self
induced.
________________________________________________________________________________
What I received was a owner advisory that "Mandatory Service Bulletin
No. 524" has been issued for a large set (4 pages of types and serial
numbers) of Lycomming engines. Mandatory service bulletins do not
carry the same legalities as ADs, although sometimes the FAA may issue
an AD as a result of the same problems that resulted in the service
bulletin. Compliance with MSBs is not required by the Feds, although
it may be required by prudence.
Hank Eilts
eilts(at)ti.com
About to start on an RV-6
> >Anyone else that has a Lycoming engine in their RV not real happy with the
> >latest letter from Textron on the oil impeller? Engine is running so so good
> I
> >just hate to tear it down.
>
> >JMP
>
> Well, I had a Citabria 7ECA which I bought new in 1973 - had it until 1992.
> During that time there 2 AD notices on the engine, both on the oil impeller.
> First of all, I wonder if they have it right this time, and second, I wonder
> what the consequences would be on an experimental aircraft of just letting it
> go.
>
> Steve Johnson
>
> Waiting on the RV-8
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | sburch(at)Infi.Net (stan burchett) |
Subject: | In Hampton Roads VA..RV RENTAL or PARTNERSHIP wanted |
Former Mooney owner (preparing to build RV) will rent or partner with RV
owner.. any model. Contact email or 804-867-7244
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
msmail.mmmg.com!spjohnson(at)matronics.com (Johnson, Steve) writes:
>Well, I had a Citabria 7ECA which I bought new in 1973 - had it until 1992.
>During that time there 2 AD notices on the engine, both on the oil impeller.
>First of all, I wonder if they have it right this time, and second, I wonder
>what the consequences would be on an experimental aircraft of just letting
it
>go.
>
>
I hate to jump in here, but I must. The consequences could be many.
Obviously an owner of an Experimental aircraft can ignore any or all service
bulletins, advisories, AD's or whatever, and be legal. First of all lets get
the terminology right. This is NOT an AD, at least yet... it is an OWNER
ADVISORY issued by Lycoming. AD's are REGULATORY and issued by a
governmental authority. In case of an accident related to the issue, I feel
quite sure the legal ramificatation would be similar. Except that the FAA
could come after you too, in case it was an AD that was not accomplished.
Nevertheless, to ignore a known documented problem seems a bit of a stretch
of our Experimental Aircraft "rights". Don't do it!
Jim Stugart
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
Subject: | Re: Frey fuselage jig costs |
> Someone recommended to me (don't recall if it was from the list)
> that using 2 pieces of 3/4" plywood cut and bonded together would
> make very straight and strong cross beams on a wood jig. Sounds good to
> me, that's what I will be using.
I think it was from the list.
I would add that one ought to buy or rent a Planer/Jointer if you REALLY wanna
get into precise, flat, straight surfaces and right angles.
Anyone consider the possible uses of one of those laser pointers as an
alignment device?
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
Subject: | Re: BAC firewall package |
> Thanks for the advice. I have decided against the BAC package. Just
> talked to Van's, and it turns out that they will now be supplying
> the firewall and components pre-drilled and clecoed together with
> all 6/6A fuselage kits. So I get to keep my $525 and get a few more
> of those magical clecoes.
Gad! Pre-drilled gear legs, wing and empennage skins, clecoed firewalls. Is
there going to be anything left for me to do when I'm finally ready to start
on mine?
(Personally, after all the horror stories I've read, the only thing I'd be
holding out for is for all the CAD work to be done and new plans with no
contradictory or missing measurements to be printed out.)
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | pmbs(at)probe.att.com (Paul M Bilodeau +1 +1 908 957 6611) |
Original-Cc: probe!pmbs
Subject: | Fast Build Options..... |
Anyone encountered any static from your inspectors about the 51% rule
regarding the use of "fast build" options??
- More Complete/Finished/Worksaving Kits from Van's
- Spar Kit
- Wing Kit
- Firewall Kit
- Prebuilt Panels, Seats, Miscellaneous Upholstery
Don't get me wrong as I am not against anyone using one or all
of these options.....I might choose to also depending on how much fun
I have building the empennage kit.
One person's words, in essence, How much is your time worth and how much
education do you want to get in building your plane??
My only concern is that if I were to use these one/more of the available
kits and get an aircraft completed (earlier than if I had not), might I
run up against trouble in having it certified in the experimental
aircraft??
Paul Bilodeau
pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com
908-957-6611
________________________________________________________________________________
> I saw an e-mail yesterday claiming that IVOprops were unreliable.
>I have 2 questions: 1) does any one have any experience with their
>reliability, 2) if they are reliable, do they perform well on an RV? I
>can't recall ever seeing an IVOprop on an RV, yet their advertising says
>they're the biggest selling props. What's the story?
>__________________________
>Tom Sargent, Synergy/Io, Tucson.
Tom, what I know is second hand but here it is any way. I wanted an
IVOprop, asked around quite a bit. Only found one that had had one. He got
rid of it primarily because he said he could not get it to perform in climb
or cruise. The secondary reason he quoted was that the hub would not fit
under an RV spinner. He was attempting the 3 blader. Don't know the
reliability of this, except it is what I was told by the man that said he
had it.
I'm like you, don't know that I've ever seen one installed. I once saw a
very nice looking black 3 blader that the hub did fit under the spinner, but
don't know what it was.
JOhn D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Engine choices |
> My experience is that what ever you buy, someone will tell you that
>he could have gotten a much better deal (they tell you this only after you
>buy). If you do get a real good deal then people will not beleive you and
>tell you the engine was way below market value and there must be something
>seriously wrong with the engine.
>
> As for judging a good from a bad used engine, in most cases this
>can not be done until the entire engine has been torn down. There are
>indications that you can use, but if the crank is bad or the cam is badly
>worn you will have a hard time determining this without inspection.
>
> My advice: buy exactly what you want and what YOU will be happy
>with, and don't worrry about what everyone else says. This is your
>airplane you will fly it and your will have to live with it.
>
>Bob Busick
>RV-6
Bob, I sure agree with your advice on this. I'm sure all of us have read in
Sport Aviation and KitPlanes about the new, revolutionary, cheap, ultra low
priced engine that someone is bringing out as an auto conversion or new
design that is passing all of the test and will be available in just a few
months when the final bugs are worked out. Then as the years go by, we
never see anything else about them, as if they fell off the edge of the
world. Don't get me wrong, it's not that the 'new' engine must prove itself
for 50 years before it's accepted, but it should have some proven record for
me. I just don't know that much to do all of that modifying, and I've
worked on engines since I was 8 years old. But if that's a builders thing,
press on. If it weren't for people that like that sort of thing, we would
still be riding on horses, and they don't roll or loop too well.
John D
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Fixing Flap Hinge |
>> How about a slightly undersize pin? Just like in the cowling. Probably
>> need to be of stronger material than the original pin.
>> Finn
>> >I forgot to put the hinge pin in the hinge while I was riveting one of
>> my flaps
>> >and it really does make a difference. The pin is quite hard to push in
>> and I do
>> >not want to drill out all the rivets.
>> >Has anyone figured out a way to straighten out the hinge to make the
>> pin go in
>> >easier after it has been riveted on the flap. I know about cutting the
>> pin in
>> >half and removing some of the hinge in the center, but I prefer to
>> leave it the
>> >way it is and straighten it as best I can.
>> >Mike Casmey
>> >Mpls, MN RV-4
Mike, one other thing you might try that worked for me. Since the pin WILL
go in. Take one of your swedish files and file a couple of groves at the
end of the pin. Sorta like a drill bit. Didn't take but about 1/8 inch of
it. Then work the pin in and out with a drill. In effect you are drilling
out the rough portion of the hinge. It, and lapping compound, left the fit
firm, not loose. Afterwards, I could, with a few choosen words and some
grease, get the pin in without a drill. It may be worth a try before all of
that drilling out of rivets, and the always occasionally wallowed out holes
that result. Now, if the hinge is wavy until it looks like the surf is up,
the drilling out may be the way to go. As they say in blackjack, it's
dealers choice and you've got the deck. Either way you decide, have fun.
John D RV6 completed
PS Even after all of this that I did, I still split the pin as per Vans
suggestion. His came out just as I was completing this work, and it made
since to me in case it may get in there and not want to come out. Some
parts seem to have a mind of their own in this regards.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: leaking fuel tank |
>I will be removing the tanks in the near future to determine exactly where the
>#$@&* leaks are. Once this is known, how have those of you who might be as
>unfortunate as I am sealed them? Can you suck a vaccum on the tank and pull
>slosh or some other sealant in where the leaks are? Or, did you just go ahead
>and slosh first to see if that took care of the leaks? What do you think would
>be the best approach?
>Any help - as always - would be appreciated.
>Bruce Stobbe
>
Bruce,
In construction test, my leaks were in the access plates and the screws that
held them on. Well, the caps leaked around the through pin, requiring that I
had to install different o-rings plus a shim to get them to compress right.
But you have removed that by your plugs. The screw heads were fixed by
backing them out, putting a little proseal under the head and screwing them
back tight. After about 30-40 hours, the left tank developed a leak. It
was removed and, here I'm lucky, I used the balloon method for press. and
used my cattle watering tank to look for the leak, like you would with an
intertube.(my wife said I was too messy to use the bathtub) The cows became
very curious, but I didn't let them help, wanted the fun myself.
The leak was on the outboard end rib, underneath, about 3 inchs from the
leading edge. Some sanding with paper, cleaning with a toothbrush and
naptha, I then sort of globbed some proseal (on the outside) in the spot
and smoothed in each direction. It's been almost 18 months and no further
leaks. Don't know what I would have done if it had been a surface rivet.
Bob Brashear says some have had to cut access holes in the rear bulkhead to
get inside and redo-much work.
John D
________________________________________________________________________________
>PS I just finished building the RMI micro encoder; it's as good as
>everybody reports. The kit and the instrument itself are top notch!!!
>
RMI micro encoder? Whats dat?>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Firewall construction |
>>How long does the firewall normally take, and is it that difficult to form
>>many pieces that make it up? Does this kit sound worthwhile for someone
>>wanting
>>to get in the air safely and affordably, yet quickly?
>IMHO, the firewall is one of the easiest, most straightforward parts of the
>airplane. You'll spend a bit of "hmmm time" puzzling out the assembly of the
>shim pieces, but it isn't really too difficult.
>I don't have a lot of extra time OR money, but I do have a bit more time. I
>can find a lot of ways to spend an extra $525.
>-- Ed Bundy
I agree with Ed. Of course, I'm conservative (well, my wife says I'm
cheap). I saw no unusual difficulty with the firewall, certainly not as much
time for construction as some other more taxing jobs. I too had a time
consideration-get the plane done soon enought to fly it before I went out
with old age, but It never occured to me to get someone else to do most of
the work for me. Still, it's an individuals choice, that's the fun of it!
John D
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Engine choices |
>Auto engine conversions seem to be gaining momentum. Does anyone here have
>any
>experience or opinions on any specific conversions? I have contacted NSI
>about
>their RV6 firewall forward package which should be available in the fall.
>They're sending info, so I don't know any details or prices yet.
I too was very interested in NSI. I called them about a year and a half ago
when they first started talking about a 160hp engine. At that time they told
me it would be ready in "about 6 months". 6 months later the date was "about
6 months". 6 months later.... Well, you get the picture. It just doesn't
seem to be happening. The 100hp one has been used very successfully in a lot
of things, but they seem to be having a lot of trouble with the bigger stuff.
Trouble is something I don't need.
I need to order my engine in the next couple of months, and I'm going to
mortgage the wife and by one from Van's. You can't get a new one anywhere
else for less.
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au> |
Ernie,
I have scanned it. What picture format would you like?
Royce Craven
Melbourne
Australia
>Can anyone out there scan in the drawings Van supplies for working out
colour schemes?
>
>It would be a great help for those of us who don't have access to a scanner.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>
>Ernie Amadio
>
>Cessna 170-B
>Shop coming together for RV-6
>
>Attachment Converted: I:\DOWNLOAD\RERV-Li1
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Fuselage Jig |
Does anyone in the S.E. US have a good straight RV-6 fuselage jig for sale?
I'd like to purchase one soon as I just finished my wings. Thanks.
rvbildr(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Peter Bennett" <bennett(at)healey.com.au> |
Van said it all in a recent RVator.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 skinning fuselage
> I saw an e-mail yesterday claiming that IVOprops were unreliable.
> I have 2 questions: 1) does any one have any experience with their
> reliability, 2) if they are reliable, do they perform well on an RV? I
> can't recall ever seeing an IVOprop on an RV, yet their advertising says
> they're the biggest selling props. What's the story?
> __________________________
> Tom Sargent, Synergy/Io, Tucson.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Becki Orndorff <rso(at)css.ncifcrf.gov> |
Tom,
A friend had an IVO on his RV4 - three bladed thing, really sexy.
However, it developed cracks in the blades within 20-30 hours. He took it
off and replaced it with a metal prop. I've heard a lot of other horror
stories about the IVO's and the factory keeps saying there is no problem.
There was an article about the IVO props in the latest RVator.
Becki Orndorff
> I saw an e-mail yesterday claiming that IVOprops were unreliable.
>I have 2 questions: 1) does any one have any experience with their
>reliability, 2) if they are reliable, do they perform well on an RV? I
>can't recall ever seeing an IVOprop on an RV, yet their advertising says
>they're the biggest selling props. What's the story?
>__________________________
>Tom Sargent, Synergy/Io, Tucson.
>
>
Becki Orndorff
NCI-FCRDC, Computer & Statistical Services
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Graham Taylor <gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au> |
Subject: | Re: Micro Encoder |
On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, John Darby wrote:
> RMI micro encoder? Whats dat?>
>
A 3 1/8" instrument, which is an altimeter (inches or Millibars).
Vertical Speed Indicator, Airspeed indicator (knots, or mph), and an
encoder to interface with your transponder. Also it can eb programmed to
give warnings for Vne, Vs, closing on or deviating from an assigned
altitude (great for IFR training). It also is an Outside Air temp, and
gives TAS, pressure altitude, density altitude. It doesn't make a cup of
coffer though. Tough !! Get the brochure, you'll be very impressed, and
you'l save $ over buying separate instruments, and have panel space to
spare. Van put one in the RV-8, and if he's happy with it, I guess most
of us would be too.
Graham Taylor gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au
119 Darley Circle, Bullcreek, WA 6149, AUSTRALIA
Phone (619) 332 4094 Fax (619) 310 6048
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | NMARSHAL(at)auto.rockwell.com |
Please could you send me a copy (in BMP format?)
Thank you
Nigel Marshall
Chevreuse, France
RV-4 (# 4062) Empennage
nmarshal(at)aopari.remnet.rockwell.com
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RE: RV-List: SCANNING
Date: 29/02/96 22:32
Ernie,
I have scanned it. What picture format would you like?
Royce Craven
Melbourne
Australia
>Can anyone out there scan in the drawings Van supplies for working out
colour schemes?
>
>It would be a great help for those of us who don't have access to a scanner.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>
>Ernie Amadio
>
>Cessna 170-B
>Shop coming together for RV-6
>
>Attachment Converted: I:\DOWNLOAD\RERV-Li1
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
I have the images in Adobe Illustrator format (Postscript) for the MAC that
I'd be happy to upload if someone can use them or convert them for PC use.
Ken
(RV6A)
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Magic Online Services Toronto Inc. (416) 591-6490
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
________________________________________________________________________________
rv-list
I got the service bulletin from Lycoming. BUT the guy in the hanger next to
me got the AD from NTSB, DOT or FAA, I forget. The bad part I have (from
the logbook at last rebuild) allows me to go 2000 hours or til next rebuild.
Another bad part listed which I don't appear to have requires replacement
within 25 hours. This is for a IO360A1A.
Dick McNaney (just lurking w my Mooney)
----------
From: owner-rv-list
Subject: Re: RV-List: Lycoming AD
Date: Wednesday, February 28, 1996 7:07PM
msmail.mmmg.com!spjohnson(at)matronics.com (Johnson, Steve) writes:
>Well, I had a Citabria 7ECA which I bought new in 1973 - had it until 1992.
>During that time there 2 AD notices on the engine, both on the oil
impeller.
>First of all, I wonder if they have it right this time, and second, I
wonder
>what the consequences would be on an experimental aircraft of just letting
it
>go.
>
>
I hate to jump in here, but I must. The consequences could be many.
Obviously an owner of an Experimental aircraft can ignore any or all
service
bulletins, advisories, AD's or whatever, and be legal. First of all lets
get
the terminology right. This is NOT an AD, at least yet... it is an OWNER
ADVISORY issued by Lycoming. AD's are REGULATORY and issued by a
governmental authority. In case of an accident related to the issue, I feel
quite sure the legal ramificatation would be similar. Except that the FAA
could come after you too, in case it was an AD that was not accomplished.
Nevertheless, to ignore a known documented problem seems a bit of a stretch
of our Experimental Aircraft "rights". Don't do it!
Jim Stugart
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
Ken:
You said:
> I have the images in Adobe Illustrator format (Postscript) for the MAC that
> I'd be happy to upload if someone can use them or convert them for PC use.
I have both a Mac and a PC. If you send it to me, I can convert it to
just about anything anybody wants. If you want to upload it to me at
work at ftp.viacrypt.com/pub/incoming, I'll take it from there.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
N601DB
Fuselage in jig
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
Subject: | Re: leaking fuel tank |
On 28 Feb 1996, COROTEC wrote:
> I will be removing the tanks in the near future to determine exactly where the
> #$@&* leaks are. Once this is known, how have those of you who might be as
> unfortunate as I am sealed them? Can you suck a vaccum on the tank and pull
> slosh or some other sealant in where the leaks are? Or, did you just go ahead
> and slosh first to see if that took care of the leaks? What do you think would
> be the best approach?
The technique of applying slosh to the OUTSIDE of the tank where it leaks
and sucking it in with vaccum is one that has been used by the Mooney
crowd for years.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
Subject: | Re: Engine choices |
n. If it weren't for people that like that sort of thing, we would
>still be riding on horses, and they don't roll or loop too well.
>John D
John D: You must not have ever chased an old cow down a hill and had one of
those "fugitives from a glue factory" step in a hole. I'm here to tell ya,
horses can loop and roll just fine. That's why no amount of money (well,
maybe a new Lycoming) could get me on one of those hay-burners ever again:)
It's much more fun to build RV's.
Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | ward9(at)llnl.gov (Rich Ward) |
Subject: | Re: Micro Encoder |
>>PS I just finished building the RMI micro encoder; it's as good as
>>everybody reports. The kit and the instrument itself are top notch!!!
>>
>RMI micro encoder? Whats dat?>
The microEncoder is a mode C altitude encoder with a host of additional
features including IAS,TAS, airspeed trend, MSL altitude, pressure
altitude, density altitude, mode C altitude, vertical speed indicator,
outside air temperature, programmable altitude alerts, and alarms for
Vne, Vno, Gear, Flap, high stall, low stall. All this in a 3 1/4" display.
In addition, every parameter imaginable is programmable from the from
panel. The kit cost is $849.00 and the assembled version is $1149.00.
RMI = Rocky Mountain Instrument 307-864-9300. Give them a call and they
will send you all the information. They typically have ads in the back of
"Sport Aviation"
Rich, RV4
You know, almost every time I type RV4 I accidently type RV$ by failing to
let up on the shift key - I wonder if this is some type of subliminal
message...?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Scott.Fink(at)Microchip.COM (Scott Fink) |
Because of this AD I will never complain about them again. My
Cherokee hit TBO so I was required to comply with the pump inspection,
I grumbled and complained untill I got the oil pump open. I had
scintered iron impellers and the keyway on the drive gear was worn to
about 3/8" or so (from ~1/8") and the key itself had a knife edge.
The pump could have failed at any minute, or it may have lasted
another 200 hrs, hard to tell, but it WAS going to fail. This AD
saved me at LEAST a very expensive engine replacement (not much
useable once the bearings weld themselves to the crank), and probably
an off-airport landing (I don't even want to think about what that
could cost, possibly everything). I still have the gear, shaft and
key, anybody in the PHX area is welcome to come over and take a look.
I agree that Lyc. should have done a whole bunch of things better, but
I would comply with this one!
Scott Fink
RV6 HS complete, working on VS
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-List: Lycoming AD
Date: 2/28/96 8:26 AM
This is just another chapter in the oil pump story with the Lyc. engines.
This has been going on for years. You have about a 50/50 chance that the
"new and improved" version will be better than the old. I think Lyc.
should make a quick-change oil pump, perhaps one that is held on with
Velcro.
Here we go again --Chris
>
> Anyone else that has a Lycoming engine in their RV not real happy with the
> latest letter from Textron on the oil impeller? Engine is running so so good
I
> just hate to tear it down.
>
> JMP
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Phil Arter <arter(at)acd.ucar.edu> |
This is what I found out when looking for an engine.
Prices (US$) based on the latest Van's catalog and most recent info from
Lycoming:
Van's Lycoming new exch* factory reman* factory oh*
new outright
O-320 D1A 17,350 29,141 23,341 18,202 12,595
O-360 A1A 18,900 31,918 25,918 19,060 12,966
IO-360 A1A N/A 39,089 32,389 24,076 16,660
* requires exchange of a useable core (with good crankshaft and crankcase).
All factory engines have new nitrided cylinders, not chrome.
I found that a used O-360 engine will cost anywhere from 5,000 to 11,000
depending on the time SMOH. To overhaul an engine, count on spending $4,000
or more for parts and another 1,200 to 2,000 for labor. There is of course
some risk in flying a used engine without overhauling it. Even if the prop
flange isn't bent, no one can tell what's inside without a complete teardown
and inspection. It wouldn't be on the market unless something, probably
bad, happened to the airframe it was attached to. Read the logbooks
carefully and get and A&P or your local overhaul shop to look it over for you.
My personal opinion: I think the best approach is to get aquainted with the
people at a reputable overhaul shop and have them keep an eye out for a good
overhaul-able engine for you. There is no reason a good overhauled engine
can't be just as good as a new one. But it won't be a whole lot cheaper
than Van's prices.
I'm pretty sure the factory is still the only agency that can remanufacture
an engine and give it a new logbook with 0 hours.
Call Lycoming at (717) 327-7278 and ask for a "Data Pak" that contains a
conplete list of engine models and prices, and includes a lot of useful
information. Please don't everyone call at once and tell them you heard it
from me.
Phil
arter(at)acd.ucar.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
Subject: | Full Tank Sucking |
REGARDING Full Tank Sucking
Be very careful about pulling a vacuum on the tank. You will be AMAZED (and
heartbroken) at how very little negative pressure is needed to CRUSH your
tank! -Elon
>>
>>******From DODO head***** thought ya might want to read this
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fast Build Options..... |
> Anyone encountered any static from your inspectors about the 51% rule
> regarding the use of "fast build" options??
>
This has not proven to be a problem with RV's. There's plenty of
work to do even with the 'fast build' kits.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Removable panel? |
Has anyone built a slider Rv6 with a removable instrument panel? If so, how?
In the Orndorff video George uses screws to attach the panel angle to the
top skin, but only along the top (can't get at the screws on the sides once
the windshield's in place) Van's says the angle should be attached all the
way down to the longerons as the panel is structural. They claim that
there's no way to make the panel removable and still structural. Any ideas?
It seems to me that the panel isn't that different than on the tip-up
version, and that panel isn't supported on the top at all.
Another question: what type of caps are people using to cover the control
sticks and for attaching PTT's? Electric box knock-out plugs aren't the
right size... :)
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | GH.LOMOTH(at)resonet.com |
action Relayed
action Relayed
Subject: | Problems subscibing |
Importance: normal
Autoforwarded: FALSE
I have tried 3 times to subscibe to the list, each time
the majordomo results come back to me as sucseeded but I am
not recieving any mail.
Gordon Lomoth
gh.lomoth(at)resonet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ron Caldwell <74504.1365(at)compuserve.com> |
I'm the group leader of the Salt Lake RV builders group. Several of my members
are ready to buy autopilots. They would like to know if anyone has had
experience with the NAVAID autopilots. What is installation and actual use
like??
Ron Caldwell
RV6A
Building Empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
Is there anyone who would be willing to hanger my RV-4 Aug 5,6,7 near
OSHKOSH? I would gladly pay a fee. My wife and I want to attend for the
first time but I have no intention of flying in there. I would stay at
a motel near my 4 and rent a car. If I can make all the arrangements,
hanger/motel/car I'll go, if not I'll try next year.
Dan Boudro
home (505) 275-3179
office (505) 889-7241
Albuquerque, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Steve Day" <sday(at)pharmcomp.com> |
Subject: | Re: Engine choices |
I just had to put in my $.02
Some of my best time during this RV project has been the contemplation of
which engine to use. My guess is that anyone else interested in an
alternative to the lycoming has checked out the Rotaries, DynaCam, Turbine,
Diesel, Subaru and various other auto conversions. Every one of these
companies have touted how much better their engine choice is and given the
advantages as to why, whether it be weight savings, fuel burn, lower cooling
drag, lower operating and maintenance costs etc etc.. If I had the money I
would probably buy one of each just because it's so neat to fiddle with
different technologies. Although I have very seriously considered a rotary
(just because I like the design so much), I will probably break down and
spend the ungodly amount of money on a lycoming and not worry about all the
unknown details associated with putting a different engine in. (some of
those 'low-cost' alternatives are very close to the price of a new lycoming
from Van's) I'm probably going to go so far as to buy a new lycoming
because I don't want to find out $10k+ later that I got a used lemon that
was drop kicked and has a TBO of 100hrs.
I'm not saying those other engine choices aren't great alternatives, maybe
some of them really are far better than a lycoming, but I don't have the
time or money to determine whether that is the case. (And I would hate to
find out the engines aren't all they are cracked up to be at 1000ft AGL
doing a scenic over a nearbly lake)
Now for my $.01 analogy. Picture someone saying, "I've got this beautiful
piece of property that is real cheap and the owner says the area has a good
water table" You spend 5 years of your life building a house and you decide
to wait 'till finishing before drilling a well. The day comes where you
drill a $3000 dry well, drill another $3000 dry well etc etc. I'm not
willing to take the risk on something that I spend 5 years of my life
building and have an unexpected engine failure. IMHO
But I'd be willing to bet there will be a day when I'm more interested in
the experimental engine market than the experimental aircraft market. :-)
[the end of my $.02]
-Steve Day
sday(at)pharmcomp.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Kutschke <73244.1501(at)compuserve.com> |
Chet,
I don't know if they have started shipping with the firewall predrilled yet or
not. The person I spoke with (John, I think) said that the details of this new
feature would be in the next RVator (soon to be sent out). I would give Van's a
call to check how the firewall is currently shipping.
Just in case you're still not getting the list, I'll send this note to your
direct address also.
BTW: How long has your fuselage order taken. They told me 8-10 weeks. I wish it
was sooner!
Bob Kutschke
73244.1501(at)compuserve.com
Chet wrote:
>> Bob, just saw your message on the list about the fuse kits being
>>shipped with firewall predrilled and clekoed. what is the effective date
>>of that option. I'm awaiting shipping of my kit sometime around the 18th
>>of March and no one at Vans has mentioned this option. I do know I'm
>>paying the new price for the kit. I didn't respond via the list because I
>>just changed servers last night and apparently Majordomo hasn't subscribed
>>me at my new address, I'm still accessing mail at my old address
>>
>>Chet Razer
>>crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
>Nevertheless, to ignore a known documented problem seems a bit of a stretch
>of our Experimental Aircraft "rights". Don't do it!
BUT, is it a REAL problem, or just a way for Lycoming to cover their LEGAL
BUTTS? Were the last two REAL problems? How many documented cases of part
failures were there? Is this advisory a gut legal reaction like so many
others? Lots of questions, but not many answers........ As an experimental
engine owner, I think that my approach would be to continue oil analysis and
LOOK FOR REAL problems.........
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
Subject: | subliminal-Subliminal messa |
REGARDING subliminal...
Rick writes:
..."I accidently type RV$ by failing to let up on the shift key - I wonder if
this is some type of subliminal message".
---------------------
If RV4 = (rv$) then the RV6 = (rv^). The caret signifies exponential costs!!!
However, the real winner is the RV8 (rv*) ... its a star!!. -Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Terry Williams <terry(at)is.com> |
As I recall, from a recent thread in this email list, IVOprops =
seem to work great with lower power engines (Rotax, VW, etc.), but =
seem to be problematic with the higher horsepower (certainly the =
O-320/-360). On this email list, Jim Cone was one of the most =
vocal about IVO's problems. It seems that some of the props were =
throwing blades when used with 150+ HP engines. You might want the =
check the email archive.
I believe that IVO has admitted that there are problems with some =
of their propellers on larger engines. At least I think that I've =
read something like that. Anyway, if IVO has sold a lot of =
propellors, they have likely been installed on the vast number of =
Kitfoxes and Avid's that have been sold in recent years. The =
SkyStar (formerly Denney Aircraft) had claimed to have sold more =
kits that any other manufacturer a year or two ago. That might =
account for the "many IVOprops sold."
tw
Begin forwarded message:
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 07:17:04 -0500
From: Becki Orndorff <css.ncifcrf.gov!rso(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: IVOprop
Tom,
A friend had an IVO on his RV4 - three bladed thing, really =
sexy.
However, it developed cracks in the blades within 20-30 hours. He =
took it
off and replaced it with a metal prop. I've heard a lot of other =
horror
stories about the IVO's and the factory keeps saying there is no =
problem.
There was an article about the IVO props in the latest RVator.
Becki Orndorff
> I saw an e-mail yesterday claiming that IVOprops were =
unreliable.=20
>I have 2 questions: 1) does any one have any experience with =
their
>reliability, 2) if they are reliable, do they perform well on an =
RV? I
>can't recall ever seeing an IVOprop on an RV, yet their =
advertising says
>they're the biggest selling props. What's the story?
>__________________________
>Tom Sargent, Synergy/Io, Tucson.
>
>
Becki Orndorff
NCI-FCRDC, Computer & Statistical Services
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Subject: | Re: Fast Build Options..... |
>
> Anyone encountered any static from your inspectors about the 51% rule
> regarding the use of "fast build" options??
I think it wa Van who once told me that the RV kits were something
like 20% complete from the factory, leaving the builder with 80% to do
themselves. That leaves a LOT of room for fast-build options. Never
heard of anyone running into problems with it.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
Subject: | Re: Removable panel? |
*** snip ****
> Another question: what type of caps are people using to cover the control
> sticks and for attaching PTT's? Electric box knock-out plugs aren't the
> right size... :)
>
> Ed Bundy
>
I bought mine from Cleaveland Aircraft (515) 432-6794 $11 ea. and am
quite happy with them.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Electrical Wiring |
For those of you who have sent me SASE's for electrical system schmatics,
they're in the mail, along with a drawing of my basic panel layout, a print
on an alternative elevator trim cable, and a neat compass card holder print.
Hope they help....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Hovan <hovan(at)apple.com> |
Subject: | Re: Removable panel? |
Hi All,
Seth Hancock, who is a machinist in the Austin area, is offering a
removable instrument panel for approximately $35. I have photos for
the web page that I haven't got around to publishing.
If you are interested in a beautifully computer milled instrument
sub-panel, please give Seth a call at (512) 930-9059.
I can personally vouch for Seth's work. He is one of a handful of
builders in the Austin area that build "perfect" airplanes. I
compare everything I do with his work. Needless to say, the gap is
quite large at this point.
enjoy,
John Hovan
aol.com!EBundy2620(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Has anyone built a slider Rv6 with a removable instrument panel? If so, how?
> In the Orndorff video George uses screws to attach the panel angle to the
> top skin, but only along the top (can't get at the screws on the sides once
> the windshield's in place) Van's says the angle should be attached all the
> way down to the longerons as the panel is structural. They claim that
> there's no way to make the panel removable and still structural. Any ideas?
> It seems to me that the panel isn't that different than on the tip-up
> version, and that panel isn't supported on the top at all.
>
> Another question: what type of caps are people using to cover the control
> sticks and for attaching PTT's? Electric box knock-out plugs aren't the
> right size... :)
>
> Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "A. Reichert" <reichera(at)clark.net> |
Subject: | VIRUSES-- Blah Blah Blah... |
This hoax will never die, will it?
True to form, it pops up about every 2-3 months.
- Alan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
Subject: | Lycoming AD (fwd) |
If you have the Steel drive gear and AL driven gear then you don't have to
do anything till the next OH.
I don't recall what they required if you have the Sintered Iron impellers.
They are bad news. The old AD on these was to replace them by 2,000 hrs
(I think). I had the Steel/AL gears so I did not pay much attention to this
part.
You need to find out what type of gears are in your oil pump.
If you have an engine model and SN, you should be able to contact Lyc and
see how it was built (assuming it has not been overhauled).
Also, some of the older AD's listed the affected engine serial numbers.
I have all that stuff at home and can look it up if needed.
Also, is this a Mandatory Service Bulletin or an AD?
>
> Anyone else that has a Lycoming engine in their RV not real happy with the
> latest letter from Textron on the oil impeller? Engine is running so so good
I
> just hate to tear it down.
>
> JMP
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
>---- Begin Forwarded Message
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>Received: from big-bertha (port65.annex4.nwlink.com [206.129.23.65]) by
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>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 22:37:05 -0800
>To: support(at)mcafee.com
>From: "Steven J. Mapua" <smapua(at)nwlink.com>
>Subject: VIRUSES--IMPORTANT PLEASE READ IMMEDIATELY (fwd)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
Subject: | leaking fuel tank (fwd) |
As someone suggested, try to find the source of the leak with some soapy
water. It still may be leaking around one of your plugs or the cap.
If you have to open up the float access hole, you may want to try just
taking a small paint brush and just brush slosh on the seams or just
slosh the seam in the area that has the leak.
You don't need to slosh the entire tank as the solid metal will not leak.
I hand brushed all my seams with slosh before I closed the float access hole.
I also had a access hole in the outboard rib that I could use to access
the other half of the tank. I applied several coats of slosh just on the
seams. My tanks did not leak.
Herman
> hopefully.....
>
> Well, they still leak... although nowhere near as bad as the first test. If
I
> pressurize to 5 in. w.c. they will leak down about 1 in of w.c. per hour or so.
> BTW, per Vans these tanks have not been sloshed.
>
> I will be removing the tanks in the near future to determine exactly where the
> #$@&* leaks are. Once this is known, how have those of you who might be as
> unfortunate as I am sealed them? Can you suck a vaccum on the tank and pull
> slosh or some other sealant in where the leaks are? Or, did you just go ahead
> and slosh first to see if that took care of the leaks? What do you think would
> be the best approach?
>
> Any help - as always - would be appreciated.
>
> Bruce Stobbe
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
Subject: | Re: Micro Encoder |
> Van put one in the RV-8, and if he's happy with it, I guess most
>of us would be too.
>
>
>Graham Taylor gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au
>119 Darley Circle, Bullcreek, WA 6149, AUSTRALIA
>Phone (619) 332 4094 Fax (619) 310 6048
>
Van would be happy if it only had a tach, airspeed indicator and a piece of
string taped in front of the canopy. He thinks everything else is overkill.:-)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
>Is there anyone who would be willing to hanger my RV-4 Aug 5,6,7 near
>OSHKOSH? I would gladly pay a fee. My wife and I want to attend for the
>first time but I have no intention of flying in there. I would stay at
>a motel near my 4 and rent a car. If I can make all the arrangements,
>hanger/motel/car I'll go, if not I'll try next year.
>Dan Boudro
>home (505) 275-3179
>office (505) 889-7241
>Albuquerque, NM
>
Come on Dan, it's like going to Mecca, ya got to do it. It's a zoo but
everybody ought to do it at least once..... and anyway you might find a
motel room in lets say......St. Louis.
On the serious side, does anybody else besides me think Oshkosh is getting
away from the homebuilder. Sure, there is alot of experimentals, but whats
with all the certified stuff and bizjets. Looks more and more like the Paris
Airshow.
Went last year but I'm sitting this one out. If I want to look at a learjet
I'll walk out on my ramp.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | joehine(at)mi.net (joehine) |
>Is there anyone who would be willing to hanger my RV-4 Aug 5,6,7 near
>OSHKOSH? I would gladly pay a fee. My wife and I want to attend for the
>first time but I have no intention of flying in there. I would stay at
>a motel near my 4 and rent a car. If I can make all the arrangements,
>hanger/motel/car I'll go, if not I'll try next year.
>Dan Boudro
>home (505) 275-3179
>office (505) 889-7241
>Albuquerque, NM
>
>
Dan, I don't know why you don't want to fly into Oshkosh but I would
rethink the subject. I flew in last summer for the first time, I was with a
friend in his 6, we were both quite nervous about it but like most things
you expect to be bad it wasn't near as bad as we expected. We went in a day
or two after the show started and no more none show plane traffic (spam
cans) was being accepted so the traffic was very light. The airshow had
just begun when we landed (with two of Van's aircraft) and we taxied down
the length of the flight line. It wasn't even my aircraft and I had a sense
of accomplishment. There was nowhere to park with the RV's when we got
there so the ground crew parked us with all the airshow aircraft until later
in the afternoon.
It was a very positive experiance and I am looking forward to doing the
same when my four is finished. If you read and know the proceedure for
flying into Oshkosh it works quiet well.
People are very carefull around the aircraft on the show line and the
other RV owners and passengers in the area will look out for your aircraft
when you are not around. It is possible to rent cars on the field and EAA
can help you with accomodations in the area.
Email me direct if you what more information, so we dont clog up the list
Hope this helps
Joe
Joe Hine
joehine(at)mi.net
506-452-1072 Home
506-452-3495 Work
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
Subject: | Re: Fast Build Options..... |
>>
>> Anyone encountered any static from your inspectors about the 51% rule
>> regarding the use of "fast build" options??
>
>I think it wa Van who once told me that the RV kits were something
>like 20% complete from the factory, leaving the builder with 80% to do
>themselves. That leaves a LOT of room for fast-build options. Never
>heard of anyone running into problems with it.
>
>Randall Henderson
>RV-6
When I was building somebody told me you were 50% done when you had it on
the gear. I didn't believe him. I do now.
Regards :
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | LHaines794(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Spin Question |
writes:
>3. hard rudder to stop turn (if you can't figure out which way you are
>turning step on either one, if it works ,great. If it doesn't work, step on
>the other one and it will)
I read someplace that the rudder you need to step on will be the stiffest
one. Any truth to this? I have only seen it mentioned once in many posts
about spins here and elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jperri(at)interserv.com |
Ron .. get in touch with Forrest. He had one and replaced it with a S-Tec like
mine. They are expensive but really good! Several decisions need to be prior to
puchase. Is a wing leveler all you need or do you want a good cross country and
IFR type system ? I have done a lot of both. I have my own opinions which I
would glad to share with the group at the next meeting. Hope I can make it..
JMP
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
Subject: | Re: control stick grips |
>
> Another question: what type of caps are people using to cover the control
> sticks and for attaching PTT's? Electric box knock-out plugs aren't the
> right size... :)
>
> Ed Bundy
>
I used bicycle foam grips. They are a black dense foam and I like
them. They even come with a plastic cap end in which you can put a
PTT switch. Don't remember the cost but you can get a pair for
$5.00 or less. On the pilot stick, I think I had to wet the inside
of the foam to get it to slip on. The moisture soon dries out and
then it fit's tight.
I use the same thing on my Pitts and RV4.
Heck, I even saw these for sale in the grocery store.
Herman
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Micro Encoder |
>You know, almost every time I type RV4 I accidently type RV$ by failing to
>let up on the shift key - I wonder if this is some type of subliminal
>message...?
>
Hmmm... very Freudian. Ken wrote in an RVator that when he was building his
airplane he told everyone it was a "$1,000 airplane". Every time he turned
around, it wanted $1,000.
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | HowardRV(at)aol.com |
On the Fues. skin, top deck (the one that runs from the instrument panel to
the firewall) on the RV-6, is there any reason why this cannot be put on with
screws rather than rivets? Would make for easy access to the instruments on
birds with sliding canopies. Just wondering.
Howard Kidwell
howardrv(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | frankv(at)pec.co.nz |
Subject: | Re: Spin Question |
In <960229193201_234624969(at)mail06.mail.aol.com>, on 02/29/96 at 07:32
PM,
aol.com!LHaines794(at)matronics.com said:
>>3. hard rudder to stop turn (if you can't figure out which way you ar
>>turning step on either one, if it works ,great. If it doesn't work, s
>>the other one and it will)
>I read someplace that the rudder you need to step on will be the
>stiffest one. Any truth to this? I have only seen it mentioned once
>in many posts about spins here and elsewhere.
I've just rejoined the list, so I'm not sure how this thread starts.
Anyway, FWIW, I have done numerous spins in a C150 Aerobat (but none
in an RV).
In the Aerobat, you have to stand on the rudder to hold it in the
spin. You also have to hold the stick right back. Letting go breaks
the spin. One of the standard bits of advice on how to get out of a
spin is to firstly reduce power, then let go of everything. If that
doesn't work, stand on one of the rudders. If that doesn't improve
things *immediately*, stand on the other one.
Finally, a cautionary note. I've done a couple of glider flights in a
Bocian (sp?). In that, if you're a bit (well maybe a lot :-)
uncoordinated in a turn, the rudder kicks hard out of the turn,
_and_stays_there_!! When it first happened, I thought it was the
instructor behind me. It took quite a bit of push to get it straight
again. My guess is that once a spin is started in that ship, it would
tend to continue spinning, unlike the Aerobat. The same thing might
apply to an RV?
Could some-one post how an RV behaves in a spin? If its been posted
recently, please email it to me. I'm keen to find out, since I
eventually plan to do aerobatics in my RV.
Frank.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz
-----------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
Subject: | Re: Micro Encoder |
Graham,
Is it TSO'd or otherwise fit for IFR use?
Leo Davies
>
>On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, John Darby wrote:
>
>> RMI micro encoder? Whats dat?>
>>
>
>A 3 1/8" instrument, which is an altimeter (inches or Millibars).
>Vertical Speed Indicator, Airspeed indicator (knots, or mph), and an
>encoder to interface with your transponder. Also it can eb programmed to
>give warnings for Vne, Vs, closing on or deviating from an assigned
>altitude (great for IFR training). It also is an Outside Air temp, and
>gives TAS, pressure altitude, density altitude. It doesn't make a cup of
>coffer though. Tough !! Get the brochure, you'll be very impressed, and
>you'l save $ over buying separate instruments, and have panel space to
>spare. Van put one in the RV-8, and if he's happy with it, I guess most
>of us would be too.
>
>
>Graham Taylor gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au
>119 Darley Circle, Bullcreek, WA 6149, AUSTRALIA
>Phone (619) 332 4094 Fax (619) 310 6048
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Removable panel? |
>Another question: what type of caps are people using to cover the control
>sticks and for attaching PTT's? Electric box knock-out plugs aren't the
>right size... :)
>
>Ed Bundy
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Shelby1138(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Small Fuel Tank Leak - advice needed |
I have tested one of my tanks and found a small leak(pinhole type) in the
outboard rib/skin/baffle seam area. I attempted to do my tanks without the
slosh, so should I get a little slosh and let it run into this area, or as
some suggest cut a hole in my rear baffle and repair? I am dreading the
latter.
Also, I might have an interest in sharing the expense of a Frey Fuse jig with
someone. I am in Nashville, TN.
To those of you with the Rocky Mountain Instruments - how is the visability
in the sun and at night? I really like both of these.
Shelby In Nashville
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rbusick(at)nmsu.edu (Robert Busick) |
Subject: | Re: Micro Encoder |
>> Van put one in the RV-8, and if he's happy with it, I guess most
>>of us would be too.
>>
>>
>>Graham Taylor gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au
>>119 Darley Circle, Bullcreek, WA 6149, AUSTRALIA
>>Phone (619) 332 4094 Fax (619) 310 6048
>>
>Van would be happy if it only had a tach, airspeed indicator and a piece of
>string taped in front of the canopy. He thinks everything else is overkill.:-)
Actually, I think Van is a little excessive. You don't need the
string taped to the front canopy!
As a hombuilder you can put all the instruments in the plane you
want. And for some people that gives them bragging rights and makes their
plane very impressive to non flyers. I have a friend that has a loran and
panal mounted GPS, two handheld GPSs, two VORs, AN receiver, HSI and any
other gizmo you can think of. He always flys in CAVU and IFR, I follow
roads.
Bob Busick
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
Subject: | Re: Spin Question |
> writes:
>
> >3. hard rudder to stop turn (if you can't figure out which way you are
> >turning step on either one, if it works ,great. If it doesn't work, step on
> >the other one and it will)
>
> I read someplace that the rudder you need to step on will be the stiffest
> one. Any truth to this? I have only seen it mentioned once in many posts
> about spins here and elsewhere.
>
I doubt it. So far as I know, the airflow during a spin is
pretty well symmetrical.
Can't say for sure, though--I've never tried stepping on the
wrong one .
Tedd McHenry
tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
Edmonton, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike Creager <mikec(at)vtcom3.vantek.net> |
Subject: | Re: Electrical Wiring |
Fred
would you please tell me where to send a SASE for the schmatics, I am in
the planning stages and need all the info possible. (RV-6A).
Thanks
Mike Creager
Soon RV-6A
> For those of you who have sent me SASE's for electrical system schmatics,
>they're in the mail, along with a drawing of my basic panel layout, a print
>on an alternative elevator trim cable, and a neat compass card holder print.
>Hope they help....
>
>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
>wstucklen(at)aol.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Removable panel? |
>Another question: what type of caps are people using to cover the control
>sticks and for attaching PTT's? Electric box knock-out plugs aren't the
>right size... :)
>
>Ed Bundy
Ed, now don't laugh, I've already admitted that I'm cheap. I made mine out
of a sewing thread spool that my wife had used on her machine. With a
little help from a wood hasp, it fit in the stick good & tight. A Radio
Shack switch fits in the hole good (its a push to close switch that is
spring loaded to the open position, just what you need). When Bob Brashear
saw it, he laughed and gave me one just like it, except plastic that he had
turned out on a lath. Then a bicycle handlebar grip foam cover slipped on
was just fine.(soap the insides, the first attempt was torn because I
hadn't) No, it doesn't look like the stick in an F-4, but then it doesn't
have guns & iron bombs on it either. I am using the plastic one that Bob
gave me, figured it wont swell & shrink as much as the wood one would have,
but the wood one is still in the shop as part of my 'one of these days it
may be needed' things. (I have a ranch that is filled with things like
that). The wire for the PPT runs down through the center of the stick.
Like I admit, I'm cheap, but it works.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | WTB: Rivet Squeezer & Questions |
Greetings RV-LIST'ers!
I'm finally getting started on my RV. I have my horizontal stab
spar going together, so it's (past) time to get serious about
tools.
About the only major thing I don't have is a rivet squeezer.
I've been agonizing over buying a pneumatic squeezer, but
will probably save the money for something else.
Does anyone have a squeezer - hand or pneumatic - or know
where I might be able to pick a used one up reasonably?
Is Avery's squeezer really better than the Tatco?
Would I do better ordering the 3" yoke squeezer or will it
flex too much?
As always, I appreciate your help!
Mickey Baker | Sage Research Corporation
mbaker(at)gate.net | Pompano Beach, FL
KC4ZU PP-ASEL-IA Cheetah N9856U | (305)785-2354
"Men should pause for ONE MOMENT and take another LONG LOOK at the
very thing that brings meaning to their meaningless lives."
-B. Breathed
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
>Is there anyone who would be willing to hanger my RV-4 Aug 5,6,7 near
>OSHKOSH? I would gladly pay a fee. My wife and I want to attend for the
>first time but I have no intention of flying in there. I would stay at
>a motel near my 4 and rent a car. If I can make all the arrangements,
>hanger/motel/car I'll go, if not I'll try next year.
>Dan Boudro
>home (505) 275-3179
>office (505) 889-7241
>Albuquerque, NM
>
Dan: Probably the hardest thing about Oshkosh is the hanger/motel/car.
Rooms are hard to come by. Flying into OSH isn't as bad as I thought it
would be, I've flown in 4 or 5 times. I feel the procedure works pretty
well, you just need to be very observant. An extra pair of eyes is handy.
If you're aprehensive, go with plan "B", there will always be another
Ohskosh. The main thing is to go at least once, it's really great, really
too much to see in 5-7 days. Good luck and have a great time. Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
>On the serious side, does anybody else besides me think Oshkosh is getting
>away from the homebuilder. Sure, there is alot of experimentals, but whats
>with all the certified stuff and bizjets. Looks more and more like the Paris
>Airshow.
>
>Went last year but I'm sitting this one out. If I want to look at a learjet
>I'll walk out on my ramp.
>
>Regards:
>Rusty Gossard
>N47RG RV-4 Flying
Rusty: I've felt the same way for years, that experimentals sometimes take
a back seat. But, I've found that between seminars, speakers, display booths
and looking at all of the experimentals (even plastic planes) you can use up
most of your time. I've haven't been to the warbirds or ultralights for
years. I'm going to S & F this year, may not go to OSH. The food is better
down south and it's a little more laid back.
I'd like to see more regional or local flyins or, better yet, RV flyins.
There's getting to be enough of us now that we could have a flyin just about
anywhere, even Nebraska. I plan on going to Boone, Iowa and the Rocky
Mountain flyin this year---lots of RV's. Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
> If I can make all the arrangements,
> hanger/motel/car I'll go, if not I'll try next year.
> Dan Boudro
Dan,
Good Luck! I generally make reservations in November or December.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
Subject: | Re: Micro Encoder |
>--------------
>
>> RMI micro encoder? Whats that?>
>>
>
>A 3 1/8" instrument, which is an altimeter (inches or Millibars).
>Vertical Speed Indicator, Airspeed indicator (knots, or mph), and an
>encoder to interface with your transponder. Also it can eb programmed to
>give warnings for Vne, Vs, closing on or deviating from an assigned
>altitude (great for IFR training). It also is an Outside Air temp, and
>gives TAS, pressure altitude, density altitude. It doesn't make a cup of
>coffer though. Tough !! Get the brochure, you'll be very impressed, and
>you'l save $ over buying separate instruments, and have panel space to
>spare. Van put one in the RV-8, and if he's happy with it, I guess most
>of us would be too.
>
>--------------
Hello everyone,
I'm doing some fuel flow testing for Van's aircraft with their blue RV-6A. We
will be recording serial data from a FuelScan DX and the RMI uEncoder
simultaneously to analyze engine performance before and after they install a
new type of ignition system. One of the 8 output serial formats on the
FuelScan includes an ASCII format that can be directly read into spreadsheet
programs like Excel for post-flight analysis of fuel data. The plan is to
capture serial data from the RMI uEncoder simultaneously so that altitude,
airspeed and temperature data can be overlaid on the fuel flow data for
a better picture of 'whole environment'. As it turns out, the serial data
format from the RMI unit is a rather strange combination of binary and ascii
that is generally not directly readable by a human. To make matters worse,
version 101.7 (circa 1990) of the uEncoder firmware and the latest version
10.1 (circa 1995) have different serial output formats. To overcome
this problem, I have written two converter programs that will read the raw
RMI data format, and write a comma separated ASCII output file that can
be directly read in by spreadsheet programs. I have made the executables and
C source code available on the Matronics FTP site (ftp.matronics.com) under the
directory "/pub/business/matronics/RMI_Data_Converter". The source code
documents how the programs are used but generally they are run using the
following syntax: "rmi_.exe
", where "rmi_o.exe" is for converting 101.x output
data and "rmi_n.exe" is for converting 10.1 output data. Yes, it would seem
that version 101.x code would have come after 10.x but that's how RMI did it.
Let me know if you try the programs; I'd be interested in any feedback you
might have. They're quick and dirty but they get the job done.
Matt Dralle
Matronics
PS - The Matronics FTP site (ftp.matronics.com) is working now, although
the 'dir' command still doesn't work right. Use 'ls' instead for now. Expect
an archive update in a few days.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | aero(at)napanet.net (Richard Slavens) |
For those of us interested in the RV-8, the April issue of Kitplanes Mag.
has the first of a two part article on the RV-8 (it's also on the front
page), by a real "test pilot" Chuck Berthe. Part 2 will be in the May
issue. It's a good write up, most of it is from the pilot/cockpit point of
view. Now, if we could just get started ...
Same magazine also has part 2 of Jon Johanson's around the world in a RV-4
flight. (part 1 was in the Feb. issue)
Dick waiting for RV-8
----------------------------
Richard Slavens (APC) Napa, CA N19313 WA6TMF
aero(at)napanet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
Subject: | N-number Reservation |
Hi Folks,
Someone on the list a while back -- maybe it was BF Gibbons --
suggested that anyone who wants to reserve an 'N' number for their RV
ought to do so ASAP to get the simplest one possible with their
initials, if that is what they want.
Well, I took his advice and started looking for available 'N' numbers
at the AvWeb location. You can also get to the search utility at
http://acro.harvard.edu/GA/ga_info.html
I kept cycling thru and searching for existing combos of
N - 2 digits - WC (for William Costello, of course)
and found a FEW left. Of course, this list doesn't include reserved
numbers, just assigned numbers, so it isn't sure-fire. You need to try
to get several possibilities.
Anyhow, I mailed my request to the FAA in Oklahoma City for N97WC
and got it! Costs $10 per year and can be renewed each year for
another $10.
That gives me another incentive to finish the plane! Don't want to go
broke paying the reservation fees! :) Also, now I can fantasize
flying in the pattern and announcing 'Experimental niner seven whiskey
charlie' !!
So, if any of you guys or gals out there would like a four digit
n-number, I suggest you act fast, cause they are getting scarce.
Keep those rivet guns thumpin'.
Bill Costello
--
___ _______________________
\ \ _ _ / /
\ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello \
X-*#####*******......./ Chicago /
o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on emp. \
\__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com /
\______________________\
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Ayers <102337.2252(at)compuserve.com> |
Subject: | Re: rv-list: Ivoprop "MAGNUM" prop |
>Tom Sargent said,
> I saw an e-mail yesterday claiming that IVOprops were unreliable.
>I have 2 questions: 1) does any one have any experience with their
>reliability, 2) if they are reliable, do they perform well on an RV? I
>can't recall ever seeing an IVOprop on an RV, yet their advertising says
>they're the biggest selling props. What's the story?
There have been 13,000 Ivoprop sold. Most of them for Ultralights and Kitfox
type homebuilts
with the 2 cycle engines.
The Ivoprop ultralight prop design has not functioned properly on a four cycle
four cylinder engine. It hasn't mattered whether it was a 60 hp Volkswagen
engine, or a 200 hp IO-360 Lyc.
Ivo developed the "MAGNUM" propeller to operate reliably on the four cycle four
cylinder
Lycoming engine. This has not been an easy task. He has always done all of his
own flight testing as part of his effort to work all of the bugs out of a new
design before it is made available for sale.
I offered to fly Ivo's "MAGNUM" prop, so he could have some performance data
from a higher
performance aircraft than the O-320 powered aircraft he was using (it was fun
having a higher
performance aircraft powered by a Lyc. O-290. Now I only have 243 cu. in.).
Ivo was able to
make a comparison to my data, when he installed the "MAGNUM" prop on a 200 hp
IO-360
powered Glasair.
Ivo put out a service bulletin last year, which requires a piece of stainless
steel tape across the hub of the propeller blades. This tape acts as a very
efficient motion detector, and the tape breaks long before any unusual vibration
becomes noticeable to the pilot (The tape has to be broken twice before the
operator is required to call the factory).
I have been flying the Ivoprop "MAGNUM" prop on my RV-3 during the last two
years. I fly the
airport pattern at 2,500 to 7,500 feet above the airport with flight following
from the local Pt.
Mugu approach. I have a Warnke wood prop which I use as a performance
reference, and for longer flights (more than two miles). (And yes, the
airworthiness certificate is written so I can change between the two specific
prop types tested.)
My RV-3 with the LOM engine was one of the last three engines that would still
break the tape on the blade hub. Ivo has required me to inspect the blades for
cracks after every hour of flight. Since I had four sets of blades to test out,
it just became convenient to go to a deferent set of blades after every flight
hour.
The latest improvement to the blades construction has stopped the tape from
being broken within the first hour of flight. However, I do not have any
significant time on the blades. Ivo has been upgrading my electric drive hub to
the proposed production configuration, and I should get it back on Saturday
(some of the new parts were not available from the machinist until today).
I can not recommend using the Ivoprop "MAGNUM" prop at this time.
However, it shows a very great potential. It weighs about the same as a wood
prop, does not
require any conversion to the engine (when this prop is ready, those cheap
Cherokee engines (O-320-E2B?) are going to look pretty good), and is only $1,940
for the complete electric constant speed prop. Or, $1,740 for the electric
variable pitch prop.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
102337.2252(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Michael Harris <mharris(at)mail.microsys.net> |
Subject: | HS rear spar bearing rivet size? |
Hi.
I have riveted the rear spar of my HS. All went well until I came to the
point of installing the 6 rivets for the center elevator bearing (right in
the middle of the rear spar).
The plan calls for 5/16" length rivets. I tried these but found that when
compressed, they did not meet the specifications dictated by the rivet
checking guage (too short & too small in circumference).
I assumed that the rivet was too small - so tried a 6/16" rivet instead and
this worked ok.
Is this a mistake in the plans?
Thanks in advance,
MIKE
RV6A
HStab
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Peter Bennett" <bennett(at)healey.com.au> |
Subject: | Re: HS rear spar bearing rivet size? |
Mike,
1. Always check by adding up the metal thicknesses. There are a few
errors on the plans, and besides, you are going to do quite a bit of
shimming, particularly under skins.
2. Always make sure there are no gaps between the pieces. Clamp them
tightly. The rivet can flow between the pieces and hold them apart.
An undersized shop head is a symptom.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 skinning fuselage
> Hi.
> I have riveted the rear spar of my HS. All went well until I came to the
> point of installing the 6 rivets for the center elevator bearing (right in
> the middle of the rear spar).
> The plan calls for 5/16" length rivets. I tried these but found that when
> compressed, they did not meet the specifications dictated by the rivet
> checking guage (too short & too small in circumference).
> I assumed that the rivet was too small - so tried a 6/16" rivet instead and
> this worked ok.
> Is this a mistake in the plans?
> Thanks in advance,
> MIKE
> RV6A
> HStab
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: WTB: Rivet Squeezer & Questions |
Micky the best hand squeezer on the market is from Avery In Ft
Woprth...George
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
>I'm the group leader of the Salt Lake RV builders group. Several of my members
>are ready to buy autopilots. They would like to know if anyone has had
>experience with the NAVAID autopilots. What is installation and actual use
>like??
>
>Ron Caldwell
>RV6A
>Building Empennage
Ron:
Check the archive files. There has been much discussion on navaids and
other autopilots on the "list". Much of it recent. Ive had one flying in a
4 for 2 years. I like it. Details in the archive.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: WTB: Rivet Squeezer & Questions |
I have an Avery pneumatic squeezer with 3" jaws. I like it a lot and it
doesn't flex. The jaws are interchangeable with his hand squeezer. On the
pneumatic squeezer, you must add washers under one side of the set many times
to get the force of the plunger just right. I think Avery sells good quality
stuff and he'll stand behind it.
rvbildr(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
> > If I can make all the arrangements,
> > hanger/motel/car I'll go, if not I'll try next year.
> > Dan Boudro
>
> Dan,
>
> Good Luck! I generally make reservations in November or December.
>
>
One other thing Dan... We fly into Appleton and stay there. It's
easier to find a room and a car, and the drive isn't too bad. We ice
down some drinks for the drive 'home' when OSH closes and are glad to
get away for the evening. If you're into all the speakers, etc. this
is not a great plan because you stay so late at OSH it's a little
late when you get back to your room. I *may* have a source for a car
if you decide on Appleton. E-mail me off line if you're interested.
One last word of advice... DO IT! If you've never been, you've got to go!
As for getting away from the homebuilts... maybe. We only stay four
days and love every aspect it. Ultralights, homebuilts, warbirds, expos,
homebuilts, lectures, hands-on, homebuilts, vendors, food......
man, I'm ready to go!!
B F Gibbons
RV-6 (first wing)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
Subject: | Re: N-number Reservation |
> Someone on the list a while back -- maybe it was BF Gibbons --
> suggested that anyone who wants to reserve an 'N' number for their RV
> ought to do so ASAP to get the simplest one possible with their
> initials, if that is what they want.
Actually it wasn't me but I do have a post script...
I called OKC two weeks ago and spoke with a nice lady in the Registry
Division. She looked up all available two diget numbers ending with
ST and BT and gave me the list of availables (her search included
reserved numbers). There weren't many! I picked the one I wanted
and wrote my letter. I even included two optional choices, just in
case.
I got a letter back yesterday saying none of the three choices are
available. What?? Someone has taken all three numbers in the past
week?? I doubt it! So now I'm trying to find out what the deal is.
Just thought those of you trying to reserve numbers might be interested.
B F Gibbons
RV-6 (first wing)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | scottg(at)villagenet.com (scott gesele) |
Subject: | Re: Spin Question |
>
>In the Aerobat, you have to stand on the rudder to hold it in the
>spin. You also have to hold the stick right back. Letting go breaks
>the spin. One of the standard bits of advice on how to get out of a
>spin is to firstly reduce power, then let go of everything. If that
>doesn't work, stand on one of the rudders. If that doesn't improve
>things *immediately*, stand on the other one.
>
"letting go of everything" will work in a Cessna (152, 172, 182, etc). DO
NOT TRY THIS in an aircraft that you are unsure of. A Mooney, Cherokee,
Etc needs to be "driven" out of a spin. The proper recovery is as follows:
-Power to idle
-Full opposite rudder
-As rotation stops, slight forward pressure on yoke (stick), to break the stall
-Recover from dive
The flight school that I use to teach out of had pictures of what happens
when a person ( a former student) spins a Tomahawk. He let it progress to
an unrecoverable situation and impacted with no horizontal motion. Not a
pretty sight!
If the aircraft is not approved for spins, proper recovery technique MUST be
implemented at the first sign of a spin.
-Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
Subject: | Re: Spin Question |
> I'm not confident that I understand what is happening in a spin. From my
> understanding the inside wing is stalled producing little or no lift and the
> outside wing is not in a stall condition therefore lifting the wing which
> gives the rolling motion. Also, the stalled wing is producing a lot of drag
> which adds to the spin. Obviously I'm not an aerodynamicist, could someone
> throw me some good details.
I was talking to another pilot friend of mine about this two days ago.
We got to wondering about that 15,000 feet/minute. I'm wondering if the
people experiencing this rate are *sure* they were in a spin and not a death
spiral? When I've gone out and done spins in my FBOs C-152-A, I have a
tendancy to relax the back pressure on the yoke about 1/2 way through the
first rotation. This breaks the stall in the 152, but the rotation continues.
Airspeed builds dramatically, and the rotation rate also increases just as
dramatically. It looks like a spin, but faster. Recovery uses the same
procedure as a spin.
It's hard to believe an airplane will "fall" at 180 MPH with the AOA on
the wings high enough for the wings to be stalled. The drag would have
to be substantial. But I'm not an AeroE, and I haven't been in a stalled
RV, much less a spun one. What do I know?
In any case, to answer the poster regarding a spin. A true spin (not a
death spiral) involves both wings being stalled, but the outside wing is
less stalled. It's still generating some lift out at the tip. GA airplanes
are generally designed to stall at the root first. This leaves you with
aileron authority deep into the stall. Production airplanes usually rely
on washout. (I'm not sure how RVs perform in this regards.)
If you think about it, it makes sense. How do you enter a spin? Slow the
plane down. Just before it stalls, stomp on the rudder. (Let's say you
stomp on the left rudder.) The nose yaws left, which slows down the left
wing and speeds up the right wing. Thus, the left wing will stall more
thoroughly than the right wing, causing the rotation.
Once the rotation starts, it's self-sustaining. The right wing will
continue to be moving faster than the left wing, so it will continue to
generate some lift -- enough to maintain the rotation.
I used to fly a radio-controlled glider. It did something resembling a
spin, sort of. The inside wing tip had absolutely no forward velocity --
it appeared to rotate above a point on the ground. The rest of the
plane would pirouette around the inside wing tip.
-J
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-595-9690(w)
Showpage Software, Inc.
435 Ford Rd, Suite 315
St. Louis Park, Mn 55426 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | scottg(at)villagenet.com (scott gesele) |
Subject: | Re: HS rear spar bearing rivet size? |
I always double check the rivet length that Van's gives. The aluminum rivet
length guage that Avery sells works very well. It only costs a few bucks
anyway. There were many places where the rivet that Van's specifies is too
long. When you run into these areas, don't even give it a second though.
-Scott N506RV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
Subject: | Re: WTB: Rivet Squeezer & Questions |
One of the most used and best tools I have is my pneumatic squeezer from
Avery. I built most of the AC with the 2 1/2" yoke, later I bought a 4"
yoke. I use both, I wish I had bought the 4" sooner.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
Subject: | Re: WTB: Rivet Squeezer & Questions |
On Thu, 29 Feb 1996 mbaker(at)gate.net wrote:
> Is Avery's squeezer really better than the Tatco?
>
> Would I do better ordering the 3" yoke squeezer or will it
> flex too much?
The Avery squeezer is more veruseful and versatile than the Tatco. (I
had both, and sold the Tatco.) The handles on the Avery squeezer are 2
inches longer. FOr me that means that I can hand-squeeze 1/8-inch rivets
with the Avery, but I could not with the Tatco.
The REALLY nice thing about the Avery though, is that it used the
pneumatic squeezer yokes. Which means that you can buy yokes in all
different sizes and configurations for different jobs.
If you buy the Avery Squeezer, get it with the 2-1/2 inch Longeron Yoke.
It is the most versatile yoke of all. (That's the one that now lives on
my pneumatic squeezer).
My advice would be to buy the AVery hand squeezer, and get the pneumatic
squeezer later if you decide you need it.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
>On the Fues. skin, top deck (the one that runs from the instrument panel to
>the firewall) on the RV-6, is there any reason why this cannot be put on
with
>screws rather than rivets? Would make for easy access to the instruments on
>birds with sliding canopies. Just wondering.
>
>Howard Kidwell
>howardrv(at)aol.com
>
>
I've seen RV-6's with removeable panels in front of the winshield like the
Mooney's have. Not a bad idea..........
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Fast Build Options..... |
>When I was building somebody told me you were 50% done when you had it on
>the gear. I didn't believe him. I do now.
>
>Regards :
>Rusty Gossard
>N47RG RV-4 Flying
Van's states that the AIRFRAME takes 2000 Hrs to build. As a first time
builder I did it in that amount of time. It took another 1300 Hrs to finish
the bird!
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Electrical Wiring |
>
>Fred
>
>would you please tell me where to send a SASE for the schmatics, I am in
>the planning stages and need all the info possible. (RV-6A).
>
>Thanks
>Mike Creager
>Soon RV-6A
>
>
Anybody wanting an electrical system schematic, a panel layout, a neat
compass card holder print, or a elevator trim cable for servo's mounted on
the aft deck, send a SASE to:
Fred Stucklen
148 Winkler Rd.
E. Windsor, Ct. 06088-9708
The schematic shows all power wiring, switching, fusing etc. It does not
include the specific wiring for the radios (except for power). This data is
usually very specific to the radios you choose. remember to purchase or have
supplied that wiring data when you buy your radios if you plan on doing the
wiring yourself.
If you do the wiring yourself, be sure to use the proper crimping tools.
While it's easy to install the radio wiring with front skins off, repairing
broken wires later on can be a real nightmare.....
Fred Stucklen
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
Subject: | Re: Small Fuel Tank Leak - advice needed |
On Thu, 29 Feb 1996 Shelby1138(at)aol.com wrote:
> I have tested one of my tanks and found a small leak(pinhole type) in the
> outboard rib/skin/baffle seam area. I attempted to do my tanks without the
> slosh, so should I get a little slosh and let it run into this area, or as
> some suggest cut a hole in my rear baffle and repair? I am dreading the
> latter.
I would try to get some slosh into that area first.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Marian K. Rendall or Scott Sawby" <mkr(at)netw.com> |
Subject: | Re: Small Fuel Tank Leak - advice needed |
>I have tested one of my tanks and found a small leak(pinhole type) in the
>outboard rib/skin/baffle seam area. I attempted to do my tanks without the
>slosh, so should I get a little slosh and let it run into this area, or as
>some suggest cut a hole in my rear baffle and repair? I am dreading the
>latter.
>
I had a pinhole leak in this same area, right in the corner. I enlarged it
with a small drill bit (hand held) and forced some proseal in there with a
syringe. It seemed to solve the problem, though I haven't had any fuel in
the tanks yet.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
> Come on Dan, it's like going to Mecca, ya got to do it. It's a zoo but
> everybody ought to do it at least once..... and anyway you might find a
> motel room in lets say......St. Louis.
Oh, it's not that bad. I'm sure there are hotel rooms available here in
the Minneapolis area. It's what -- 4 or 5 hours to drive or so? If you
can't get a hotel room in Mpls, I'll let you have the guest room. :-)
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-595-9690(w)
Showpage Software, Inc.
435 Ford Rd, Suite 315
St. Louis Park, Mn 55426 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
Subject: | Re: BAC firewall package |
> > Just
> > talked to Van's, and it turns out that they will now be supplying
> > the firewall and components pre-drilled and clecoed together with
> > all 6/6A fuselage kits.
>
> Gad! Pre-drilled gear legs, wing and empennage skins, clecoed firewalls. Is
> there going to be anything left for me to do when I'm finally ready to start
> on mine?
I want to take the opportunity to thank all of you who have gone before
me, so that Vans can do things like pre-drill the wing skins, and now these
latest improvements to the firewall.
Thanks.
-Joe
Now, if I can only get moved into the new house so I can get back to`
serious building...
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-595-9690(w)
Showpage Software, Inc.
435 Ford Rd, Suite 315
St. Louis Park, Mn 55426 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian Yablon <brian(at)lanart.com> |
Hi Folks,
Does anyone know what the deal is on the Harmon Rocket? I've seen
pictures, and heard that its an IO-540 powered RV4 with appropriate
structural mods. Can anyone build one of these? If so, where do you
get the plans? How does it perform (besides "awesome")? How does
Vans feel about it?
-Brian
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Yablon Position: Hardware Engineer
LANart Corporation Internet: byablon(at)lanart.com
145 Rosemary Street, Suite D1 Ma-bell: (617) 444-1994 x206
Needham, MA 02194 FAX: (617) 444-3692
LANart: Difference by Design
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gene Gottschalk (286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov> |
Subject: | Re: Spin Question |
>writes:
>
>>3. hard rudder to stop turn (if you can't figure out which way you are
>>turning step on either one, if it works ,great. If it doesn't work, step on
>>the other one and it will)
>
>I read someplace that the rudder you need to step on will be the stiffest
>one. Any truth to this? I have only seen it mentioned once in many posts
>about spins here and elsewhere.
Step on the stiff rudder is what I was taught. BTW, the let go of the stick
method apparently doesn't work in all aircraft. I'm training in a Zlin 242
and this will not work. To paraphrase the POH, positive control stick input
is required for spin recovery. I was taught PARE.
Power off
Ailerons, neutral
Rudder, opposite (stiff pedal)
Elevators forward
Gene RV6a
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ^ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Gene Gottschalk |N| e-mail : geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov~
~ Goddard Space Flight Center |A| [128.183.166.137] ~
~ Code 540/505, Hughes STX |S| Telephone : (301) 286-0708 ~
~ Greenbelt, MD 20771 |A| FAX : (301) 286-0270 ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ^ ^ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gene Gottschalk (286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov> |
Subject: | Re: control stick grips |
Another little trick I learned with motorcycles is to shoot a little paint
from a rattle can into the grip. It lubricates the grip enough for easy
installation, and when it dries it provides some adhesion. Motorcycle grips
tent to get loose over time, I guess it's something to do with the death
grip. The paint "glued" them tight until you cut them off.
Gene-RV6a -Still trying to start the firewall!
========================================================================
> I used bicycle foam grips. They are a black dense foam and I like
> them. They even come with a plastic cap end in which you can put a
> PTT switch. Don't remember the cost but you can get a pair for
> $5.00 or less. On the pilot stick, I think I had to wet the inside
> of the foam to get it to slip on. The moisture soon dries out and
> then it fit's tight.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
>On the Fues. skin, top deck (the one that runs from the instrument panel to
>the firewall) on the RV-6, is there any reason why this cannot be put on
with
>screws rather than rivets? Would make for easy access to the instruments on
>birds with sliding canopies. Just wondering.
The problem is that you can only put screws in the top part of the skin. As
you progress down the sides the fixed windshield blocks access to the screws.
Van's claims that you have to fasten it all the way down to the longerons.
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rick Solana <102131.2407(at)compuserve.com> |
Just talked with Ken Johnson at Lycoming and learned a lot:
- In 60 to 90 days, Van should be offering Lycomings with an electronic ignition
option.
- Auto fuel does not seem likely as an "official option" in the future,
particularly since auto fuels have different specifications depending on the
region of the world it is going to and the season of the year. 100LL, on the
other hand, has the same spec no matter where you find it.
- A new unleaded fuel is not likely to be cheaper. Also, it should not be a big
octane problem since removing the lead lowers the octane from 100 to about 96,
which should not be a huge issue to get back to 100.
- Van's engines were originally certified for 91 and 96 octane fuels, and maybe
even lower!
Rick Solana, RV-6a
fuselage in the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
Subject: | Re: Micro Encoder |
>
>> Van put one in the RV-8, and if he's happy with it, I guess most
>>of us would be too.
>>
>>
>>Graham Taylor gmt(at)perth.DIALix.oz.au
>>119 Darley Circle, Bullcreek, WA 6149, AUSTRALIA
>>Phone (619) 332 4094 Fax (619) 310 6048
>>
>Van would be happy if it only had a tach, airspeed indicator and a piece of
>string taped in front of the canopy. He thinks everything else is overkill.:-)
>
>
Whats the string for??
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
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-------------------------------------
Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892
2300 Oakmont Way #205 Fax: 541-342-5492
Eugene, Oregon 97401 email: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
>I'm the group leader of the Salt Lake RV builders group. Several of my members
>are ready to buy autopilots. They would like to know if anyone has had
>experience with the NAVAID autopilots. What is installation and actual use
>like??
>
>Ron Caldwell
>RV6A
>Building Empennage
>
Ron,
There are about 6 RV's flying in Eugene with the Navaid. They are for the
most part happy with them. Some people have trouble figuring out how to get
them to lock in on the track they want. One "complaint" is thay wish they
were three axis instead of two. There is quite a bit of discussion in the
archives about them. I have also been checking out the autopilots from
Empire. Look at their home page at http://user.aol.com/chanik/ed. The
three axis autopilot is selling for $700. Two of the systems have been
sold to RV builders but no report yet.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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-------------------------------------
Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892
2300 Oakmont Way #205 Fax: 541-342-5492
Eugene, Oregon 97401 email: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Subject: | Re: WTB: Rivet Squeezer & Questions |
Whether you get a pneumatic or hand squeezer, you're probably going to
end up wanting more than one yoke. The larger deeper throat is handy
for a lot of stuff but for getting into tight spots, you'll need a
shallow one because those have smaller "noses" and can get in tighter.
Yes I recommend the Avery if you get a hand squeezer. I have a Tatco
with 2 yokes that are useless on my Pneumatic which I eventually broke
down and bought. The deeper Avery yokes also don't have as much problem
with bending rivets since they're much beefier than the tatco yokes so
they don't flex as much.
I've found it's nice to have more than one squeezer since it saves
having to change dies (and yokes!) so much.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gene Gottschalk (286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov> |
Subject: | Re: Fast Build Options..... |
That makes me feel somewhat better. Last builder I talked with at Oshkosh
said when you finish all the stuff Van sends you your about half done!
-Gene, RV6a
> Van's states that the AIRFRAME takes 2000 Hrs to build. As a first time
>builder I did it in that amount of time. It took another 1300 Hrs to finish
>the bird!
>
>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
>wstucklen(at)aol.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
OK GUYS! YOU CONVINCED ME! Mea Culpa...
I'll fly into Oshkosh but not this year, next. I have to be up there on
business this year about a month before so I'll take a look around and
spend the next 12 months getting ready, I haven't got camping gear 1 and
that way I'll get some hours on the RV first.
Thanks for all the input!
Dan Boudro (somewhat more humble)
RV-4 N9167Z
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
Subject: | Re: Small Fuel Tank Leak - advice needed (fwd) |
You might try putting a small diam. hose (plastic tubing or 3/8 rubber fuel
line hose ) on a plastic funnel and then insert the hose into the tank and
get the end close to the area with the leak and then pour some slosh into
the funnel. This would direct the slosh to the specific area.
Then move the tank around some to spread it out in this area and let it cure.
Herman
>
> On Thu, 29 Feb 1996 Shelby1138(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> > I have tested one of my tanks and found a small leak(pinhole type) in the
> > outboard rib/skin/baffle seam area. I attempted to do my tanks without the
> > slosh, so should I get a little slosh and let it run into this area, or as
> > some suggest cut a hole in my rear baffle and repair? I am dreading the
> > latter.
>
> I would try to get some slosh into that area first.
>
> Best Regards,
> Dave Barnhart
> rv-6 sn 23744
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | scottg(at)villagenet.com (scott gesele) |
Subject: | Re: IRC Chat On RV's |
Just wondering if there was any interest in getting an IRC Chat session
going at some predetmined time related to RV's? What about in the evening
from 8:00pm eastern to whenever? If I'm logged on tonight (taking a break
from building), I'll start a room called RV-Stuff or something along that
line.
-Scott N506RV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | TommyLewis(at)aol.com |
Subject: | leaking fuel tank (fwd) |
What type of slosh did you use? I ask because Van no longer recommends a
slosh because of the new fuel additives. I understand there is a "thinner"
proseal available that can be painted on, but apparently I have not looked in
the right catalogs yet because I have not found it.
TommyLewis(at)aol.com
new fuselage kit in garage
RV6A - N967RV reserved
---------------------
From: austin.ibm.com!dierks(at)matronics.com
Date: 96-02-29 18:11:50 EST
As someone suggested, try to find the source of the leak with some soapy
water. It still may be leaking around one of your plugs or the cap.
If you have to open up the float access hole, you may want to try just
taking a small paint brush and just brush slosh on the seams or just
slosh the seam in the area that has the leak.
You don't need to slosh the entire tank as the solid metal will not leak.
I hand brushed all my seams with slosh before I closed the float access
hole.
I also had a access hole in the outboard rib that I could use to access
the other half of the tank. I applied several coats of slosh just on the
seams. My tanks did not leak.
Herman
> hopefully.....
>
> Well, they still leak... although nowhere near as bad as the first test.
If I
> pressurize to 5 in. w.c. they will leak down about 1 in of w.c. per hour or
so.
> BTW, per Vans these tanks have not been sloshed.
>
> I will be removing the tanks in the near future to determine exactly where
the
> #$@&* leaks are. Once this is known, how have those of you who might be as
> unfortunate as I am sealed them? Can you suck a vaccum on the tank and
pull
> slosh or some other sealant in where the leaks are? Or, did you just go
ahead
> and slosh first to see if that took care of the leaks? What do you think
would
> be the best approach?
>
> Any help - as always - would be appreciated.
>
> Bruce Stobbe
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mitchell Faatz <mitch(at)netmanage.com> |
Subject: | Re: IRC Chat On RV's |
PwRCO~s"A~`xv&z.hE;P"7`$"90KI\asWliWt7"xGPLa/:\\o(at)MYS5h.uOMyoh.lSrBB]%_8rJ[9}U
~O/w3:S\<\&p)Nt0s|KA5s|kuD/K.j&?#'*P8W/lP28(Lo[j^##fU9};tipZvOqv]
P.S. Anybody around North California (bay area hopefully) have
a flying RV-6A I can get a ride in? :)
-Mitch, still researching the RV-6A,
with a bonus check burning a hole in my pocket.
wrote:
Just wondering if there was any interest in getting an IRC Chat
session
going at some predetmined time related to RV's? What about
in the evening
from 8:00pm eastern to whenever? If I'm logged on tonight
(taking a break
from building), I'll start a room called RV-Stuff or something
along that
line.
-Scott N506RV
-----------------End of Original Message-----------------
O/ Cut here
-------------------Q\--------------------------------------
Mitchell Faatz Software Engineer mitch(at)netmanage.com
NetManage Inc. Team Lead - Internet (408) 973-7171
Home of Chameleon TCPIP Applications for Windows
MIME Enclosures OK
-----------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Russ Werner <russ(at)maui.net> |
Subject: | Re: HS rear spar bearing rivet size? |
>Hi.
>I have riveted the rear spar of my HS. All went well until I came to the
>point of installing the 6 rivets for the center elevator bearing (right in
>the middle of the rear spar).
>The plan calls for 5/16" length rivets. I tried these but found that when
>compressed, they did not meet the specifications dictated by the rivet
>checking guage (too short & too small in circumference).
>I assumed that the rivet was too small - so tried a 6/16" rivet instead and
>this worked ok.
>Is this a mistake in the plans?
>Thanks in advance,
>MIKE
>RV6A
>HStab
>
No problem. I ran into the same thing there.
Russ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Russ Werner <russ(at)maui.net> |
Subject: | Re: Harmon Rockets? |
>
>Hi Folks,
>
>Does anyone know what the deal is on the Harmon Rocket? I've seen
>pictures, and heard that its an IO-540 powered RV4 with appropriate
>structural mods. Can anyone build one of these? If so, where do you
>get the plans? How does it perform (besides "awesome")? How does
>Vans feel about it?
>
>-Brian
Brian,
You can buy plans and a kit of parts to modify the RV4 kit from
John Harmon
2000 S. Union Ave.
Bakersfield, CA 93307
Go and fly the thing. You will find that the awesome sums it up pretty well!
Aloha,
Russ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JDAviator(at)aol.com |
Did the FTP site for the RV-LIST Archives move? Or, is the Matronics server
down? I've tried accessing the Matronics FTP to download the latest archive
file, with no luck.
If I've missed a previous posting 'splaining all this, sorry.
Thanks -
Jerry Allison
Mostly lurking, learning, and waiting for the RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: HS rear spar bearing rivet size? |
>The plan calls for 5/16" length rivets. I tried these but found that when
>compressed, they did not meet the specifications dictated by the rivet
>checking guage (too short & too small in circumference).
>I assumed that the rivet was too small - so tried a 6/16" rivet instead and
>this worked ok.
>Is this a mistake in the plans?
Yeah, probably. You'll find that the callouts for rivets, bolts and other
hardware are not always entirely accurate. You'll get used to judging how
much rivet is protruding from the hole and use the next size (it's a LOT
easier before squeezing) if appropriate.
If you occasionally have a rivet or two that doesn't meet specs it isn't a
big deal. A rivet has about 80-90% of it's design strength even when
squashed very flat, and you'll usually do more damage drilling out and
replacing a bad rivet than leaving it in. Don't make a habit out of it, but
keep it in mind.
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Removable panel? |
>Ed, now don't laugh, I've already admitted that I'm cheap. I made mine out
>of a sewing thread spool that my wife had used on her machine. With a
>little help from a wood hasp, it fit in the stick good & tight. A Radio
>Shack switch fits in the hole good (its a push to close switch that is
Don't worry, I won't laugh. I see no reason to spend good money on useless
frills. That's why I tried to use electric box knock-out plugs. They would
be perfect (and cheap) if they were only the right size... :) The 1/2" ones
fit great in the flap handle, unfortunately the control stick is slightly
smaller.
I used grips from the control stick on a Quicksilver. They work great.
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Small Fuel Tank Leak - advice needed |
Shelby,
I used the slosh that Van sold in the past. If I remember correctly,
Aircraft Spruce also sold it. My method of getting it to the right place
without wasting it (there is my cheapskate approach again!) was to get a
plastic syringe from the local farm feed & vet store. About a 60cc size.
Get some plastic tubing that will fit over the needle attachment nub. Have
the tubing long enough to go from one end of the tank to the other. Fill
the syringe with slosh, insert the tube, guiding through the surge holes in
the baffles, when the end gets into the right cell, inject the slosh, take
out the tube, rotate the tank around so that the slosh follows the edges of
baffle/rib. It runs around the edges and leaves a layer where ever it runs.
Some will leak through the corners as it goes by, but with a little
dexterity and alot of hoping, you can get a good coating. I did all of mine
and had 3/4 can of slosh left. Saved some slosh, it helps my cheap heart,
but don't know why because the money is spent anyway. Oh well, I saved some
weight!
BTW (isn't that e-mail for by the way?) I have used both auto and
avgas,(over 2 years this month) I haven't seen any slosh coming loose--yet.
I did put a filter between ea tank and the fuel selector, so in case it
starts it will be caught there rather than lodging in the elec fuel pump and
blocking both tanks.
John D RV6 N61764 completed.
>I have tested one of my tanks and found a small leak(pinhole type) in the
>outboard rib/skin/baffle seam area. I attempted to do my tanks without the
>slosh, so should I get a little slosh and let it run into this area, or as
>some suggest cut a hole in my rear baffle and repair? I am dreading the
>latter.
>Shelby In Nashville
>RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer) |
Subject: | Re: rv-list: Ivoprop "MAGNUM" prop |
Jim, thanks for a very well written and informative report on the Ivoprop.
It's that kind of stuff that makes this list the high quality list that it
is.
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: IRC Chat On RV's |
Scott, Here I go showing my ignorance again, but what is 'irc network', IRC
chat , all that stuff? I still haven't been able to download? the search
engine etc yet!
John D
At 02:37 PM 3/1/96, you wrote:
>Just wondering if there was any interest in getting an IRC Chat
>session
>going at some predetmined time related to RV's? What about
Scott N506RV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer) |
Subject: | Re: Small Fuel Tank Leak - advice needed |
>I have tested one of my tanks and found a small leak(pinhole type) in the
>outboard rib/skin/baffle seam area. I attempted to do my tanks without the
>slosh, so should I get a little slosh and let it run into this area, or as
>some suggest cut a hole in my rear baffle and repair? I am dreading the
>latter.
>
>Also, I might have an interest in sharing the expense of a Frey Fuse jig with
>someone. I am in Nashville, TN.
>
>To those of you with the Rocky Mountain Instruments - how is the visability
>in the sun and at night? I really like both of these.
>
>Shelby In Nashville
>RV6A
>
>
Shelby, Its good to see you back on the net. If you know where the hole is
why not try a little proseal worked in from the outside. Just mix it up
and work it in with finger. If that doesn't work maby try injecting some
slosh with a hypo. Stick the needle in and depress the plunger as you
withdraw the needle. I've not tried either but I'd sure give it a whirl
before I cut a hole in the tank baffle.
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: control stick grips |
> I used bicycle foam grips. They are a black dense foam and I like
> them. They even come with a plastic cap end in which you can put a
> PTT switch. Don't remember the cost but you can get a pair for
> $5.00 or less.
For info, Motorcycle grips fit perfectly - a pair consists of are two different
diameters since one is for the throttle. They fit the sticks perfectly (sticks
being
two different sizes also). I bought a pair of aftermarket grips for a honda goldwing,
- pretty chrome tops & bottoms, and soft, black foam grip section. The top is metal
not plastic and can be drilled for the PTT no problem. There is an inner plastic
top
below this, that I then cut a square hole in to take the body of the switch. -
cost
about $20.00 for the pair and they look real purdy...
Rob Lee, Finish paint ON!! (at least the VS, HS, pants, Tips, Rudder & elevators)
RV6A
N517RL - sn22626
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | HowardRV(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Micro Encoder |
The string is to check the relative wind over the nose. I.E. is the bird
yawing! Course I guess the ball should have told us that but what the heck,
we just flew them. We had them on the T-33 and it worked. In over 1,700 hours
of T-33 time, I don't recall the string doing anything but running straight
down the nose.
Howard Kidwell
howardrv(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
Hi Folks,
I'll give my 2 cents worth re Oshkosh. Being from Chicago, it is easy
for me to get to Oshkosh and my wife and I have gone every year for
about the last 8 years.
I think your reaction to Oshkosh depends on whether you let Oshkosh
control you or whether you control Oshkosh. By that I mean, if you
just walk in and react to what you see, you might be overpowered by the
crowds, the 747's, SST's, warbirds and heavy military stuff (Paul's
favorite??), etc, etc.
But if you get a program and formulate a plan, you can:
1. Meet the people from Van's and get a demo ride in your favorite RV,
if you haven't had one.
2. Get, face to face and via literature, etc, all the latest and
greates stuff from Van's.
3. Talk to a couple of dozen RV builders, with their planes, on the
flight line and pick their brains like mad -- they are usually great
guys and gals and will eagerly share their experience.
4. Go to the booths of a whole host of parts and auxiliary material
providers who, specifically or in general, provide stuff for the RV.
(Since there are over 8,000 RV plans and/or kits out there, there are a
LOT of suppliers coming to the market!)
5. Go over to the Flea Market area and find some good buys for parts
and tools. BUT you have to be VERY careful here, because it is a flea
market and there are everything from very legit low budget good buy
stuff to gypsies. Better know your stuff or take someone with you who
does.
6. Go to the bookstore and get all those books you wanted -- like Tony
Bingelis' series -- without paying the large S&H charges.
7. Stop by the EAA Museum and take photos of all the classic homebuilts
you have read about for years in Sport Aviation.
Well, you get the picture. Oh, yes, if you want to see any of those
plastic, cotton, fiber, or old planes, there are a couple thousand of
those there too!
Bill Costello
--
___ _______________________
\ \ _ _ / /
\ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello \
X-*#####*******......./ Chicago /
o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on emp. \
\__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com /
\______________________\
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | bill garrett <bgarrett(at)fast.net> |
Subject: | Need for Flaring tool |
Hi everyone-
I'm getting together an order for some things to build the RV and was
wondering whether I need a 37 degree flaring tool. The thing seems
expensive for the number of times I would think I'd use it. Do most of you
own them or are you generally able to share with someone nearby who has one?
If you own them, any suggestions as to which one to buy (the two I see
advertised are Parker and Imperial Eastman)?
Thanks for any and all responses.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)compuserve.com> |
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: William Costello, INTERNET:bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
RE: Re: RV-List: OSHKOSH
Hi Folks,
I'll give my 2 cents worth re Oshkosh. Being from Chicago, it is easy
for me to get to Oshkosh and my wife and I have gone every year for
about the last 8 years.
I think your reaction to Oshkosh depends on whether you let Oshkosh
control you or whether you control Oshkosh. . . . .
I agree with Bill 100%. I've been attending since 1986 and over that
span of years, there are STILL things at OSH that I've NOT seen.
These fall into two categories (1) I have no interest in them or
(2) they are lower on the list of priorities for things I must
do.
I would add a couple of things for RV'ers to consider on their
personal OSH lists . . .
Check out the Forums. There are 10 large tents fitted with screens,
p.a. systems, overhead projectors, etc. In those tents you can
come face to face with the the shakers and movers in an environment
conducive to questions, discussions and critical review. I've known
a few people who were dispensing questionable information but over
a series of years, they ultimately couldn't make it in the clear
light of day in the tents. I try to do two electrics forums every
year . . . one day-time on a specific topic and an evening open
QA format. I'll encourage you all to attend my or anyone else's
forum where you can benefit, contribute or both.
The other item is stop by the B&C Specialty Products booth in the
NEW north commercial building, south of control tower, centered
on west side of far east isle. Yeah, I got some hardware to show
you BUT there's the other place we can lean on the counter over
your drawings or spend some one-on-one time discussing your
project. I love to sell you some of Bill's stuff but it's more
important that we get all your questions answered no matter who's
hardware you ultimately plan to use!
See you at OSH 96!
Bob Nuckolls
AeroElectric Connection
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
>Hi Folks,
>
>I'll give my 2 cents worth re Oshkosh. Being from Chicago, it is easy
>for me to get to Oshkosh and my wife and I have gone every year for
>about the last 8 years.
>
>I think your reaction to Oshkosh depends on whether you let Oshkosh
>control you or whether you control Oshkosh. By that I mean, if you
>just walk in and react to what you see, you might be overpowered by the
>crowds, the 747's, SST's, warbirds and heavy military stuff (Paul's
>favorite??), etc, etc.
>SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
When I made the comment about Oshkosh getting away from the homebuilder
I figured I would get zapped. It's like knocking Mom and apple pie, Right?
Don't get me wrong, I think everybody should go, at least once. You have to
see it to believe it.
But I do think it's getting too big. Hey,last year I parked my airplane
with the other RV's on the show line and camped with friends in the 2nd to
last row in the "South 40" which was literally over a 1 1/2 miles away. I
believe Van made similar comments about possibly going to a 2 weekend event
with experimentals one weekend and the other stuff the next. Spread the
load a little.
Seems like EAA is more interested in making $ on ANY and all exibitors. I
remember walking past Learjet's,Citation's,Hawker's booths going to Van's.
What those and similar displays have to do with the fly in/convention, other
than making bucks for EAA, is beyond me.
I like the seminars, supplier booths, the RV people, even the guys with
plastic airplanes. I've seen all the other stuff at the "Dayton Air Show".
Hey, I don't even mind letting the Aussies come Peter, ther're fun to watch.:-)
IMHO smaller would be better.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Electrical Wiring |
>usually very specific to the radios you choose. remember to purchase or have
>supplied that wiring data when you buy your radios if you plan on doing the
>wiring yourself.
Where can this data be obtained? I just bought a TKM comm and a Narco xpdr
and the "manual" that came with them is just an operation manual for an end
user. The info makes it sound like they don't want anyone but an avionics
tech touching those colored spaghetti things in the back.
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: BAC firewall package |
>I want to take the opportunity to thank all of you who have gone before
>me, so that Vans can do things like pre-drill the wing skins, and now these
>latest improvements to the firewall.
I like all the improvements that have been done, but it sure seems to be
increasing the amount of time it takes to get kits.. There was a 3 month
lead time on my finishing kit. Even parts from stock can take 2 weeks.
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Harmon Rockets? |
>Does anyone know what the deal is on the Harmon Rocket? I've seen
>pictures, and heard that its an IO-540 powered RV4 with appropriate
>structural mods. Can anyone build one of these? If so, where do you
>get the plans? How does it perform (besides "awesome")? How does
>Vans feel about it?
>
Well, it has a climb rate in the neighborhood of 3000 fpm (can anyone say
"bends"?) and I think it's about 20mph faster in cruise; well in excess of
Vne on an RV4. You can get the modifacation kit from Mr. Harmon and you need
a regular RV4 kit from Van's
How does Van feel about it? He won't sell you the kit if you tell him you
plan on turning it into a Rocket. I tend to be conservative, maybe not as
conservative as Van, but close. The RV's have been very well tested, and have
stood the test of time. I may be wrong, but I think there are just a
handfull of customer-completed rockets and I don't feel there has been a
whole lot of testing done on them.
Besides, Im not willing to burn almost TWICE as much gas to get an extra
20mph, call me crazy...
To each their own.
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | KennyCobb(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Harmon Rockets? |
John's Phone # is 805-836-1028
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
Subject: | Chicago Pilots, Fly an RV6A for 40$/hour wet |
Would you like to fly a brand new RV6A with a 200HP fuel injected engine and
constant speed prop that can cruise at 210 MPH ?
Would you pay $40 per hour wet to do so ?
Do you live in the Chicago area ?
If you answered yes to these three questions, you may be interested in
joining our soon to be created, non-profit, incorporated RV flying club.
Hi, my name is Scott Johnson and I have been flying airplanes like Cessna
172's and Cherokees for 20 years. After 1000 hours in these airplanes,
flying to me was beginning to be like driving a family sedan, not to
exciting. But then I got an opportunity to fly an RV6A, and that excitement
and fun was re-kindled. So I am starting a non-profit, incorporated RV
flying club with the goal of providing low cost flying in a fun, safe, high
performance airplane. Heres a very brief summary of how its going to work
(details will be forthcoming):
- Club will be non-profit and incorporated to limit personal liablity.
- Airplane will be maintained only by licensed A&P mechanics employed by the
club.
- Club will be equity based and cost $6,000 per member, membership is set
constant at 10 members.
- Club member may sell their membership at anytime to another qualified pilot.
- Club airplane will be insured by AVEMCO for the full value of the plane.
- Club will be open to licensed pilots with 100 hours total time or more,
and will require 5 hour checkout.
- Monthly dues for the insurance, tie down, and 24 hour scheduling service
is $50 month per member.
- Plane will be based at Schaumburg or Dupage airport.
- The bylaws and rules required to keep the club rolling smoothly and to
preserve equitable access to the plane by all its members will be refined by
its members before the club is incorporated and memberships taken.
*** Note: the plane has not been purchased yet, we are looking at several
RV6A's. If you know of one for sale, please let me know.
- Since a number of the people interested in this club are also building
RV's of their own (including myself), it is expected that over time
memberships will change hands. This is great because it gives builders a
chance to fly today, and non-builders the chance to fly a high performance
airplane.
Lest anyone think the hourly rates are to good to be true, or an equity size
club of this size is not doable, I will share this with you. I have belonged
to the Vagabond flying club in Chicago for many years. It also is a
non-profit equity club. We have a Cessna 172 for 35 hour wet, a Warrior for
35 hour wet, and a Cherokee 140 for 30 hour wet. This club has been in
existence for over 20 years. It has a membership size of 50 people so their
equity position is about $1,200 per share, and their montly dues are around
$50. It has been a great experience for me and one I intend to model for the
new RV flying club. So if you are seriously interested in becoming part of
the RV flying club, feel free to call me evenings and weekends.
*** If 10 members cannot be found at the above share prices, consideration
will be made to purchasing a lower cost RV with more members. (Example
$40,000 RV diveded by 15 members = $2,666 per share, with hourly rates of
$35, and monthly dues of $30).
Scott Johnson Home: 708-980-3772 RVGASJ(at)MCS.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cn755(at)freenet.carleton.ca (Catherine Lamport) |
Enough about Oshkosh! My husband Dale & I are planning on
visiting Sun N Fun next month. We were there two years ago and
found it was much smaller and not so overwhelming as Oshkosh.
Got lots of pictures of RVs and had a great time talking to the
owners. We found out after the fact when we were that there had
been an RV banquet with Van's people in attendance. Is there
one this year and how do we get our names on the list to attend?
See you at Sun 'N Fun
Cathy & Dale Lamport
Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario, Canada
SN 23861
Tail & Wings finished
P.S. I guess we will have to unsubscribe when we are away or our
computer will burst from all the RV messages.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | mgamble(at)chiba.netxn.com (Michael Gamble) |
Subject: | Re: control stick grips |
WD40 does the same sort of thing, lubs it while it goes on but also melts
the grib a little. So after a short time, solid.
Mick
>Another little trick I learned with motorcycles is to shoot a little paint
>from a rattle can into the grip. It lubricates the grip enough for easy
>installation, and when it dries it provides some adhesion. Motorcycle grips
>tent to get loose over time, I guess it's something to do with the death
>grip. The paint "glued" them tight until you cut them off.
>
>Gene-RV6a -Still trying to start the firewall!
>========================================================================
>> I used bicycle foam grips. They are a black dense foam and I like
>> them. They even come with a plastic cap end in which you can put a
>> PTT switch. Don't remember the cost but you can get a pair for
>> $5.00 or less. On the pilot stick, I think I had to wet the inside
>> of the foam to get it to slip on. The moisture soon dries out and
>> then it fit's tight.
>
>
>
_____________________________________________________________
|| Michael C. Gamble Fax: (805) 328-3860 ||
|| Happy Troll Computing Phone: (805) 328-3840 ||
|| 5329 Office Center Court Email: mgamble(at)chiba.netxn.com ||
|| Suite 200 ||
|| Bakersfield, CA 93309 ||
-------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
Subject: | N-Number reservation |
I love our government. I called the FAA yesterday and asked about
the the numbers I had tried to reserve. She told me she didn't know
but that if I received a letter there must be some reason why I
couldn't have them. I asked her to give me a list of all of the
NxxST registrations available. The first two she gave me were the
one's I tried to reserve.
To make a long story short, I got the number I asked for originally
and everyone is confused about why I was notified that I couldn't
have it. I must admit, the two ladies I worked with in OKC were as
helpful as they could be.
I guess the moral here is, don't give up.
N23ST
B F Gibbons
RV-6 (first wing)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
>I think your reaction to Oshkosh depends on whether you let Oshkosh
>control you or whether you control Oshkosh. By that I mean, if you
>just walk in and react to what you see, you might be overpowered by the
>crowds, the 747's, SST's, warbirds and heavy military stuff (Paul's
>favorite??), etc, etc.
>
>But if you get a program and formulate a plan, you can:
>1. Meet the people from Van's and get a demo ride in your favorite RV,
>if you haven't had one.....etc....etc.....!
RIGHT ON, BILL! I've gone almost every year since 1975 and must say your
plan is perfect. My only gripe is I can't do everything I want to in seven
days. Down here we lust for the nights at Molly McGuires and brats, and life
in the dorm. Last year we had at least 30 from the Austin area, and many
more from Central Texas EAA chapters.
Jim Stugart
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
EAA Chapter 187, Austin, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)compuserve.com> |
Subject: | Re: Electrical Wiring |
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 11:18:51 -0500
>Where can this data be obtained? I just bought a TKM comm and a Narco xpdr
>and the "manual" that came with them is just an operation manual for an end
>user. The info makes it sound like they don't want anyone but an avionics
>tech touching those colored spaghetti things in the back.
>-- Ed Bundy
Ed . . . an other RV'ers. Until I ask for so much that he can no longer
offer the service, I have a contact with a local avioinics shop who has
said he would share his very complete library of installation wiring
diagrams. Here's how it works:
You send me (Bob Nuckolls, AeroElectric Connection, 6936 Bainbridge Road,
Wichita, KS 67226-1008 a 9x11 manilla envelope with about $2 postage
on it ADDRESSED to YOU. Include a list of radios you intend to install
along with serial numbers if you can provide them . . . Sometimes there
are differences that must be identified with serial effectivities.
Include your fax no, e-mail address, phone or SOME way to readily contact
you in case there are questions. As soon as I've determined that the
your request is clear, I'll forward it to him for copies and mailing
direct from his shop. He didn't ask for it, but it wouldn't hurt
to include about $1 per radio in cash . . . copy machines arn't free
nor is the paper . . . .
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Don Mack <donmack(at)interaccess.com> |
Subject: | Oil canning on wing |
I have just completed riveting the top skin on the wing (rv-6a).
I noticed that between w-425 and the front spar there is pretty noticable oil canning
occuring.
If I press on that section from the inside, the oil canning pivots below
where w-425 crosses the the skin towards the rear spar.
I was thinking of putting a small angle piece between the w-425 and forward
spar to stiffen that area up.
Any suggestions?
don mack
rv-6a
top view - right wing
------------------------------ <--forward spar
| : |
| : |
sta 73.5--> | small-->: | <--sta 83.5
| angle : |
| : |
|----------------------|
| ^-w425 |
| |
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | HowardRV(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: N-Number reservation |
Can you pass on the phone numbers in Okc. City to call?
Thanks,
Howard Kidwell
howardrv(at)a0l.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
Subject: | Re: WTB: Rivet Squeezer & Questions |
>About the only major thing I don't have is a rivet squeezer.
>I've been agonizing over buying a pneumatic squeezer, but
>will probably save the money for something else.
Mickey Baker
Mickey: This is what you've been saving your money for---a pneumatic
squeezer. I think they're mighty popular, you don't see many used ones for
sale. I would think that it would be very easy to sell when you're done
with your project, especially if you demonstrate it to another RVer. I
don't own a hand squeezer and neither will you if you buy the pneumatic. I
built my own spars so I could "justify" the pnu. squeezer (but I'd probably
bouught one anyway.) Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
Subject: | Re: HS rear spar bearing rivet size? |
>Hi.
>I have riveted the rear spar of my HS. All went well until I came to the
>point of installing the 6 rivets for the center elevator bearing (right in
>the middle of the rear spar).
>The plan calls for 5/16" length rivets. I tried these but found that when
>compressed, they did not meet the specifications dictated by the rivet
>checking guage (too short & too small in circumference).
>I assumed that the rivet was too small - so tried a 6/16" rivet instead and
>this worked ok.
>Is this a mistake in the plans?
>Thanks in advance,
>MIKE
>RV6A
>HStab
Mike: As long as all of the pieces were tight against each other this
shouldn't be a problem. Sometimes, the exact rivet size is in between so
use your rivet cutter to make one the correct lenght. Sometimes if a rivet
is too long it will tip when driven. You'll probably find this out on your
own, sometime. If you build your own spar, it is important to have the #6
rivets the exact length. If you try to drive a #6 that is too long, there
is a very real possibility that it will tip and drilling out rivets in a
spar is something that I would not really like to think about. Bob Skinner
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
>>I'm the group leader of the Salt Lake RV builders group. Several of my
members
>>are ready to buy autopilots. They would like to know if anyone has had
>>experience with the NAVAID autopilots. What is installation and actual use
>>like??
>>
>>Ron Caldwell
>>RV6A
>>Building Empennage
>
>
>Ron:
>
>Check the archive files. There has been much discussion on navaids and
>other autopilots on the "list". Much of it recent. Ive had one flying in a
>4 for 2 years. I like it. Details in the archive.
>
>Regards:
>Rusty Gossard
>N47RG RV-4 Flying
Rusty: Is the procedure for using the archives listed in the FAQ's that new
"listers" get when they sign on? I haven't tried the new search engine yet.
It came out after I went through the archives manually (not recommended:) )
If newbies are as computer illiterate as I am, they may not be able to get
answers to their questions in a timely manner. I understand that re-hashing
old topics might be boring to us, but maybe there are a lot of new builders
that could benifit from a fresh discussion. I don't know, what's the best
way to handle this? (The above discussion doesn't apply to primers,
however. We definately must send them to the archives, right? :) )
Ron: I, too, have a Navid Devices and I like it. I beleive the prices
went up since I purchased mine, so I don't know if I'll put one on the 6-A
I'm building now. I wish a few of you guys would buy the items from Empire
Development and try them out and let us know how they work. Bob Skinner
Rv-6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
Subject: | Re: IRC Chat On RV's |
>Just wondering if there was any interest in getting an IRC Chat session
>going at some predetmined time related to RV's? What about in the evening
>from 8:00pm eastern to whenever? If I'm logged on tonight (taking a break
>from building), I'll start a room called RV-Stuff or something along that
>line.
>
>-Scott N506RV
Scott: Talking about RV's, sounds good, but I have no idea what you're
talking about. What's an IRC Chat session? Please explain the procedure.
One question---between the list and the chat group, will we have any time
left to build our airplanes???
Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | driehl(at)cycor.ca (David Riehl) |
Subject: | Re: Harmon Rockets? |
>>
>>Hi Folks,
>>
>>Does anyone know what the deal is on the Harmon Rocket? I've seen
>>pictures, and heard that its an IO-540 powered RV4 with appropriate
>>structural mods. Can anyone build one of these? If so, where do you
>>get the plans? How does it perform (besides "awesome")? How does
>>Vans feel about it?
>>
>>-Brian
>
>Brian,
>
>You can buy plans and a kit of parts to modify the RV4 kit from
>John Harmon
>2000 S. Union Ave.
>Bakersfield, CA 93307
>
>Go and fly the thing. You will find that the awesome sums it up pretty well!
>
>Aloha,
>
>Russ
>
>
The Rocket is a Four on steroids, with 50 to 100 extra hp to pull it up
hill. The fuselage is beefed up, forward of the rear seat bulkhead with
heavyer skins and is widened by 4 inches at the front seat. The rear seat
has 4 inches extra leg room. Head room is less than the RV4. Pilots 5'11"
and over may find the canopy too low.
The wings are clipped RV4 kits with larger fuel tanks ( prototype uses RV6
wings ).
My brothers Rocket ( C-GRVF ) has yet to fly (completed in Dec.95, waiting
for warmer weather) but taxi tests show very good acceleration and RVish
handling. The six cylinder sounds great.
David
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: WTB: Rivet Squeezer & Questions |
>
> Mickey: This is what you've been saving your money for---a pneumatic
> squeezer. I think they're mighty popular, you don't see many used ones for
> sale. I would think that it would be very easy to sell when you're done
> with your project, especially if you demonstrate it to another RVer. I
> don't own a hand squeezer and neither will you if you buy the pneumatic. I
> built my own spars so I could "justify" the pnu. squeezer (but I'd probably
> bouught one anyway.) Bob Skinner RV-6
>
Bob and all that replied:
Thanks for all your reponses. I spoke with 17~a fellow in Michigan who has
pneumatic squeezer (rebuilt) for $250. I found his name in the Archives.
I'm going to order a pneumatic squeezer. For only $150 more than the
Avery squeezer, it is pretty easy to justify. I'll offer it here when
the RV6 is finished - sometime next century.
Now I need to go get my HS rear spar out of the jig and do some
deburring and priming. I was particularly careful and it looks like it's
going to work okay. Thanks for everyone's input to mu questions and in
the past in the RV-Archives.
Mickey
________________________________________________________________________________
Howard, It started in the F-80 or before, it helped much in gunnery, eye on
the pipper and the string insight. I even had it on the 84 and F-4. Been
thinking of it on the RV, don't know what the prop does to it. I've seen it
on at least one RV but didn't get to talk to the owner. It's interesting as
I remember in a spin (with tanks off on the T-bird!) The main thing is that
it puts the yaw reference up close to your line of sight.
Didn't know there were still T-33 drivers around!
John D
>The string is to check the relative wind over the nose. I.E. is the bird
>yawing! Course I guess the ball should have told us that but what the heck,
>we just flew them. We had them on the T-33 and it worked. In over 1,700 hours
>of T-33 time, I don't recall the string doing anything but running straight
>down the nose.
>
>Howard Kidwell
>howardrv(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Electrical Wiring |
Ed, The MX-11 Comm Radio has the wiring diag. for the plug in it. Even I
did it (I'm told my soldering looks like dirt daubbers did the job). I also
got the GCA intercomm - had some squeal in it. Gulf Coast said to send the
radio and intercomm with my harness and they would check it out. They
called me and said that they had corrected the problem, but suggested that I
let them redo the harness for $165.00. When I got the stuff back, they had
corrected the squeal. the harness?? I was expecting something like in a mil.
a/c. They tied 2 waxed threads around it, in addition to my handie ties,
didn't resolder or anything.
$165.00!!!!! I made a note that afterwards to do all of my wiring.
If it were me, I would call or write the co. and ask for the info you need.
John D
>
>>usually very specific to the radios you choose. remember to purchase or have
>>supplied that wiring data when you buy your radios if you plan on doing the
>>wiring yourself.
>
>Where can this data be obtained? I just bought a TKM comm and a Narco xpdr
>and the "manual" that came with them is just an operation manual for an end
>user. The info makes it sound like they don't want anyone but an avionics
>tech touching those colored spaghetti things in the back.
>
>-- Ed Bundy
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | scottg(at)villagenet.com (Scott Gesele) |
Subject: | Re: IRC Chat On RV's |
>Scott, Here I go showing my ignorance again, but what is 'irc network', IRC
>chat , all that stuff? I still haven't been able to download? the search
>engine etc yet!
>John D
IRC chat allows real-time communications between people on the internet.
This is done by:
1) Logging onto the internet
2) Running a chat program
3) Connecting to a chat server
4) Selecting a room to chat in
Your specific internet provider (AOL, Prodigy, Villagenet, etc) should be
able to cover 1 & 2. If you still need a chat program , try downloading
NS-Chat from http://www.villagenet.com . Select the help icon, followed by
Internet Apps. and Viewers. There is also a description on how to use chat
under the help icon.
The program will require a chat server to be specified. I log onto effnet
and get good results with the following as a server:
irc.colorado.edu Port=6667
irc.colorado.edu Port=6666
irc.cris.com Port=6667
Most servers use port=6667 FYI.
After you log into a server select Group Conversations. This should list
the active chat rooms. Select a room and start talking.
Anyone can start or enter an existing room at any time. There is no
additional cost for this service, except for what your internet provider
charges for basic internet connection.
If there is interest, I will start a room called RV-Stuff on Tuesday 3-5-96
at 8:00 PM Eastern Time.
If anyone has any questions on logging into chat in general, e-mail me
personally and I will try to help.
Any comments or interest in a chat on Tuesday, post some sort of reply to
the list.
-Scott N506RV
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Need for Flaring tool |
Bill,
In case no one else answers, my opinion: buy one. i got mine from Aircraft
Spruce. Was going to borrow from a local source that should have had one,
but he told me his was from the local auto parts house, the little bit of
difference didn't matter! I didn't buy that, so bought one. As it turned
out, it was used more than I had thought. In my case, multiply the number
of times you think you will use it by a minimum of 1.5 due to my goofs. i
think mine was about 65.00 (US$ in case you are across the pond or in cold
country)
John D
>Hi everyone-
>
>I'm getting together an order for some things to build the RV and was
>wondering whether I need a 37 degree flaring tool. The thing seems
>expensive for the number of times I would think I'd use it. Do most of you
>own them or are you generally able to share with someone nearby who has one?
>If you own them, any suggestions as to which one to buy (the two I see
>advertised are Parker and Imperial Eastman)?
>
>Thanks for any and all responses.
>
>Bill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Bellcrank Installation |
Wow, I installed the first real control system in my 6A today. The Aileron
bellcranks. I stood there marveling at how smooth they operated and imagined
the ailerons responding to my every command as I moved the bellcrank back and
forth. I have not had such vivid images since the day I mounted my elevators
on the horz stab. Will this beast ever get done?
Anyway, the reason for the post is share my experience in making the short
little spacers for the belcrank from the 6061-T6 3/8 tube supplied for this
purpose. The plans say the spacers are to be approximatly 7/16" in length and
mine ended up being 0.430", or approximatly 7/16. Cutting the tube was no
problem at all, the bandsaw did a great job. The problem was that I had cut
the parts a little long (SOP) and planed to file or sand the pieces to the
proper length. The parts are so small there was no way I could hold them up
the the belt or disk sander to remove the remaing material (they got hot real
fast) and filing was taking forever. The solution was to chuck the small
tubes in my 3/8 drill and take them to the disk sander while the part was
spinning in the drill chuck. This worked great. The ends of the tubes come
out perfectly flat (perpendicular to the length) and due to the heat sink or
rotation of the chuck (air motion) the parts when removed from the drill were
not even warm.
This was a very fast way of making the parts and they came out exactly the
0.430 inches that I needed.
Gary Zilik
RV-6A 22993 (cutting leading edge for Duck Works Landing Light)
________________________________________________________________________________
Bob, i would like to second your comments. I'm not new to computers, but I
sure am new to the internet or whatever. I'v read and re-read the FAOs,
studied internet for dummies etc. The ftp at fisrt I got something in Ark.
and couldn't get anykind of reaction from it, made no diff. what I typed
etc. Then it was something about the ftp being broke. Now I can get
something that looks like its what I wanted, but can't get any reaction from
it. Tried the suggested open
"ftp.matronics.com/pub/business/matronics/RV-Search" to get the 'engine' and
after 20 minutes, still hadn't got anything except once it printed 'can't
find file /'. Terry Williams has been helping me off list, but now something
called DAEMON (wasn't he the devil in some movie?) says can't deliver that
address, neither one that Terry has.
Talk about feeling dumb!!! I know that this isn't to teach beginners how to
do this stuff, but I sure haven't been able to get this stuff, and I would
sure like to get into that 'archive' and read whats there.
Well, maybe it's like building a/c, it just ain't easy!
John D
>>Check the archive files. There has been much discussion on navaids and
>>other autopilots on the "list". Much of it recent. Ive had one flying in a
>>4 for 2 years. I like it. Details in the archive.
>>
>>Regards:
>>Rusty Gossard
>>N47RG RV-4 Flying
>
>
>Rusty: Is the procedure for using the archives listed in the FAQ's that new
>"listers" get when they sign on? I haven't tried the new search engine yet.
>It came out after I went through the archives manually (not recommended:) )
>If newbies are as computer illiterate as I am, they may not be able to get
>answers to their questions in a timely manner. I understand that re-hashing
>old topics might be boring to us, but maybe there are a lot of new builders
>that could benifit from a fresh discussion. I don't know, what's the best
>way to handle this? (The above discussion doesn't apply to primers,
>however. We definately must send them to the archives, right? :) )
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: IRC Chat On RV's |
Bob,
Thanks for taking the pressure off of me. I was beginning to think i was
the only one on here that didn't know what this stuff meant.
John D
>>Just wondering if there was any interest in getting an IRC Chat session
>>going at some predetmined time related to RV's? What about in the evening
>>from 8:00pm eastern to whenever? If I'm logged on tonight (taking a break
>>from building), I'll start a room called RV-Stuff or something along that
>>line.
>>
>>-Scott N506RV
>
>Scott: Talking about RV's, sounds good, but I have no idea what you're
>talking about. What's an IRC Chat session? Please explain the procedure.
>One question---between the list and the chat group, will we have any time
>left to build our airplanes???
>Bob Skinner RV-6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JZidek7003(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Harmon Rockets? |
Brian
You can get the plans from John Harmon. Basicly, in order to build a
Harmon Rocket you will need to buy the RV-4 kit from Van's minus the finish
kit. You buy that from Harmon. Beware, Van does not endorce the Harmon
Rocket because he does not feel that the higher potential forces on the
control surfaces are safe. I bought a set of plans from John and I like them
but I am not building a Harmon Rocket.
I am a first time builder and I need all the help I can get. Van's will
not support your decision or help you in any way if you are building a
Rocket. Becides Van is a damn good designer of airplanes and if he feels
that the Rocket design is potentally unsafe who am I to question the man who
came up with the design in the first place.
If you want the Harmon Rocket you can build it, thats up to you, just
become as knowlageable as you can before making your decision.
When I made my decision to build an RV I based it on alot of factors.
The big one was the number completed and the number completed by first time
builders. Vans has over 1000 of his airplanes in the air and most by first
time builders. Harmon has a few airplanes in the air and I don't believe any
are by first time builders. I am not trying to discorage you I just want you
to be aware of these things so you don't end up with a partially completed
kit with no one to help you or worse yet a completed airplane that is unsafe.
John Zidek
KC area RV builder group pres.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JerryFlyRV(at)aol.com |
6A for 40$/hour wet
>Would you like to fly a brand new RV6A with a 200HP fuel injected engine and
>constant speed prop that can cruise at 210 MPH ?
>
>
Good luck!!!!
First I don't think you will cruise at 210 mph without burning alllloooottt
of fuel.
Second, RV's are so much fun to fly that if you have 15 people when is anyone
person going to get a chance to fly it?
I have a 180 hp on my RV-6 and when I cruise at 180 mph I am burning 10 gph
and if I push it up to 190 mph the fuel burn goes up dramatically of course I
don't have a constant speed prop which may save you a part of a gal per hour.
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14,1989
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JZidek7003(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Twin Cities RV Forum |
Doug
Your RV gathering sounds great!! I have started a RV club in Kansas City
and we are now 40+ members strong. I would be very interested in going to
your event. I would not be able to fly my RV because it is only 50%
completed. I started last Sept. If you could arrange for someone to pick me
or a few of our members up and put us up in your home, shop whatever (I have
found that sleeping is not an option when talking RV's) we would be more than
happy to return the favor.
John Zidek
(913)491-2944
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
Subject: | Re: Harmon Rockets? |
SNIP........ I am not trying to discorage you I just want you
>to be aware of these things so you don't end up with a partially completed
>kit with no one to help you or worse yet a completed airplane that is unsafe.
>
>John Zidek
>KC area RV builder group pres.
I too have been attracted to the rocket, but I have unanswered questions. I
can see many positive things in it like, the smooth operation of the 6 cyl.
engine, an engine
that is reasonably cheap to buy (cores are cheaper than the high h.p. 4
bangers), great lines (I like the high turtledeck).
However, owning a 180 h.p. 4 I've operated an RV around Van's suggested red
line and I'm not sure I want or need to go much faster. At red line the
controls tighten up and it "feels" like the airplane is at redline. There
has been alot of discussion around these parts about higher H.P. engines on
RV's and the deminishing returns you get.
The thought is we have just about tapped out the efficiency of this wing
design.
I am sure the climbout is like an elevator ride, but is the climb capability
worth
the work and expense involved. I also take note of the lack of rollover
protection.
If you put it on its top, you are going to get real short in a hurry. If
power alone was the answer they would have more engines on an F-16......how
does it handle?
Now if somebody would come up with a new wing.....................
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
>SNIP>>>>>
>>>Check the archive files. There has been much discussion on navaids and
>>>other autopilots on the "list". Much of it recent. Ive had one flying in a
>>>4 for 2 years. I like it. Details in the archive.
>>>
>>>Regards:
>>>Rusty
SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand that re-hashing
>>old topics might be boring to us, but maybe there are a lot of new builders
>>that could benifit from a fresh discussion. I don't know, what's the best
>>way to handle this? (The above discussion doesn't apply to primers,
>>however. We definately must send them to the archives, right? :) )
>
OK OK
I suggested the archive as there was alot of detailed discussion on
autopilots recently. I don't mind doing it again...... it's a good thing I
fly better than I type.
I've had a Navaid flying for about 18 months (put it in after my 4 was flying).
It has worked fine. I have it coupled to a KX 155 and a handheld Garmin
95xl through
a Porcine "Smart coupler". It tracks well in my airplane and has never shown
any signs of "snatch". You must, repeat MUST, follow the installation
instructions exactly.
They are very specific on adjustments of the pots on the servo and the head. I
cheated and had the resident electronics wiz on our field help me. He works
cheap....
likes to ride in RV's. The servo in my 4 is under the floor behind the
right aileron
push tube. Servo ties to a saddle bracket on the main control tube. You
will have to remake the control arm on the servo as it is not long enough to
give full travel.
Be sure to hook up the transmit disconnect as I think some people experience
RF problems if they don't.
This unit works as good as any single axis a/p I've used. Want to know
anything else,
I'll try to answer.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Harmon Rockets? |
Ed Bundy writes the cruise of the HR2 as being ~20mph faster the a -4. It's
more like 30-35 mph, and it does this on 11 gph. INDICATED airspeed is less
that an RV's Vne, TRUE airspeed is way up, tho. I've seen 197mph indicated
@10,000 msl, w/ 50 deg F OAT. My whiz wheel says this is 235 mph. Zoom.
Handling characteristics are the same as the RV's, but different- feels
bigger somehow, with more stability, I'd say. Probably due to the wing
loading.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Electrical Wiring |
>Ed, The MX-11 Comm Radio has the wiring diag. for the plug in it. Even I
>did it (I'm told my soldering looks like dirt daubbers did the job). I also
Yes, you're correct. I should have specified that the xpdr didn't come with
any wiring diagram.
There are a couple of things I don't understand on the MX-11 diagram. The
dotted line that goes from #4(mic-key) to #9(mic audio) - does this represent
the PTT switch? Does this also connect somehow with #5(spkr)? Can you just
omit the speaker altogether, or do you need some sort of load on that line?
What is #11(mic - hot) for? Why is there a 1.5k resistor across the aux
audio & audio out lines?
Any comments would be appreciated.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
Subject: | Re: N-Number reservation |
You wrote:
>
>Can you pass on the phone numbers in Okc. City to call?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Howard Kidwell
>howardrv(at)a0l.com
>
FAA Civil Aviation Registry
P.O. Box 25504
Oklahoma City, OK 73125-0504
405-954-3116
Bill Costello
--
___ _______________________
\ \ _ _ / /
\ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello \
X-*#####*******......./ Chicago /
o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on emp. \
\__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com /
\______________________\
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
Subject: | N-number Request Info |
Hi Folks,
I tried to post this before, but think it went south, so here goes
again. These are the people you reserve an N-number with:
FAA Civil Aviation Registry
P.O. Box 25504
Oklahoma City, OK 73125-0504
405-954-3116
Bill
--
___ _______________________
\ \ _ _ / /
\ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello \
X-*#####*******......./ Chicago /
o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on emp. \
\__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com /
\______________________\
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
Hi Folks,
The thing I do in between waiting to win the lottery and building my
RV-6 is train business people how to use PC application software
products. I train most of the word proc, spreadsheets, database mgrs,
etc, but am just starting to learn MS Project.
If anyone just might happen to have a machine readable version of their
construction project (RV-6 preferred) in terms of tasks and time on
task that they wouldn't mind sharing, I would love to have it.
I would take a shot at computerizing it so that Gantt and PERT charts
could be drawn. If I come up with anything good, I would make it
available to the list for future builders.
Just a wild thought. I really don't expect it to be available and
CERTAINLY am not asking anyone to type up their construction notes with
tasks and times.
Best regards,
Bill
--
___ _______________________
\ \ _ _ / /
\ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello \
X-*#####*******......./ Chicago /
o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on emp. \
\__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com /
\______________________\
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Ayers <102337.2252(at)compuserve.com> |
>Mark said,
>Ed Bundy writes the cruise of the HR2 as being ~20mph faster the a -4. It's
>more like 30-35 mph, and it does this on 11 gph. INDICATED airspeed is less
>that an RV's Vne, TRUE airspeed is way up, tho. I've seen 197mph indicated
>@10,000 msl, w/ 50 deg F OAT. My whiz wheel says this is 235 mph. Zoom.
> Handling characteristics are the same as the RV's, but different- feels
>bigger somehow, with more stability, I'd say. Probably due to the wing
>loading.
Last year at the RV get-together in Bakersfield on the Merced Fly-in weekend, I
ran into John
Harmon at the restaurant. He said he burns 22 GPH at 240 mph INDICATED.
Different altitudes, different power settings, different fuel flows.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
102337.2252(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Harmon Rockets? |
>Ed Bundy writes the cruise of the HR2 as being ~20mph faster the a -4. It's
>more like 30-35 mph, and it does this on 11 gph. INDICATED airspeed is less
As far as the speed, I stand corrected. I did say I *thought* it was around
20. However, you'll have to enlighten me as to how an IO-540 (250-300hp)
engine will cruise on 11gph. According to the POH, the 0-470 in a C-182
(230hp) burns 14gph at 75%.
>that an RV's Vne, TRUE airspeed is way up, tho. I've seen 197mph indicated
>@10,000 msl, w/ 50 deg F OAT. My whiz wheel says this is 235 mph. Zoom.
That is indeed impressive. Is this your airplane? Is your IAS callibrated?
With all due respect, I feel something isn't right here. 235 TAS on 11gph
sounds a little wishfull to me.
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dave Mumert" <Dave.Mumert(at)cadvision.com> |
Subject: | Re: Wierd request |
> Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 08:00:07 -0800
> From: ix.netcom.com!bcos(at)matronics.com (William Costello )
> Subject: RV-List: Wierd request
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Reply-to: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Hi Folks,
>
>clip
> If anyone just might happen to have a machine readable version of their
> construction project (RV-6 preferred) in terms of tasks and time on
> task that they wouldn't mind sharing, I would love to have it.
>
>clip
This is a GREAT idea. I will certainly try to keep track of my time
when I finally get started later this year.
This would be great to help potential builders estimate and
understand the builing times required.
I just received the latest copy of MS Project from MS. Perhaps list
members could set up a standard list of tasks.
Dave
Waiting for tax refund so I can buy tools and Tail kit.
Dave Mumert
dmumert(at)softnc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
Subject: | Re: Wierd request |
>Hi Folks,
>
>The thing I do in between waiting to win the lottery and building my
>RV-6 is train business people how to use PC application software
>products. I train most of the word proc, spreadsheets, database mgrs,
>etc, but am just starting to learn MS Project.
>
>If anyone just might happen to have a machine readable version of their
>construction project (RV-6 preferred) in terms of tasks and time on
>task that they wouldn't mind sharing, I would love to have it.
>
>I would take a shot at computerizing it so that Gantt and PERT charts
>could be drawn. If I come up with anything good, I would make it
>available to the list for future builders.
>
>Just a wild thought. I really don't expect it to be available and
>CERTAINLY am not asking anyone to type up their construction notes with
>tasks and times.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Bill
>--
>
> ___ _______________________
> \ \ _ _ / /
> \ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello \
> X-*#####*******......./ Chicago /
> o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on emp. \
> \__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com /
> \______________________\
>
Bill,
I seem to remember seeing something like that in one of the Midwest RV
newsletters. Someone had kept track of their build times in very good
detail. I published it in our Puget Sound RVator and I'll look back through
the files and see if I can find it.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | frankv(at)pec.co.nz |
In <1.5.4b11.32.19960303030450.0067e690@our-town.com>, on 03/02/96 at
09:04 PM,
John Darby said:
>Howard, It started in the F-80 or before, it helped much in gunnery,
>eye on the pipper and the string insight. I even had it on the 84 and
>F-4. Been thinking of it on the RV, don't know what the prop does to
>it. I've seen it on at least one RV but didn't get to talk to the
>owner.
A yaw string is standard equipment on a glider. I'd be surprised if it
was any use on an RV, since the prop-wash would be much more
significant than the slipstream. It would probably work OK on a pusher
or twin. Maybe they have them on F-18s? :-)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz
-----------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
I don't wann tie up the list with administration stuff, but...
All my mail from the rv list is arriving with the header information at the
beginning instead of the end as it previously was, making it a real pain to
find the message content.
Is anyone else seeing the same or could it be at my end......Matt?
Ken
RV6a
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Sent via ExpressNet/SMTP(tm), Internet Gateway of the Gods!
ExpressNet/SMTP (c)1994-95 Delphic Software, Inc.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Stuart Fraley <swfraley(at)alpha.comsource.net> |
Subject: | New Member, Introduction |
To the List,
I've just resumed work on my RV-6 tail kit after letting it lie dormant for
several months (new baby, etc.) I'd be real interested in seeing other
projects within a couple-hundred miles of Evansville, Indiana.
Also, is there an RV Forum and/or Dinner at Sun-n-Fun this year?
Stuart Fraley
Cheetah in the Hangar
RV-6A in the Garage
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: New Member, Introduction |
>
> Also, is there an RV Forum and/or Dinner at Sun-n-Fun this year?
>
> Stuart Fraley
> Cheetah in the Hangar
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> RV-6A in the Garage
>
I resemble that! N9856U was the first airplane to fly using hydrogen
as fuel. 1976 Cheetah 1812TT, 160hp.
I've just started on the RV6A - I have the horizontal stab spar
drilled and am deburring it. Primer tomorrow if I can find some
Variprime and get to Home Depot to buy a respirator.
Mickey Baker | Sage Research Corporation
mbaker(at)gate.net | Pompano Beach, FL
KC4ZU PP-ASEL-IA Cheetah N9856U | (305)785-2354
"Men should pause for ONE MOMENT and take another LONG LOOK at the
very thing that brings meaning to their meaningless lives."
-B. Breathed
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rick Osgood <74774.54(at)compuserve.com> |
I am just finishing up the tail kit for my RV6A and I am now at the point to
consider a tail light.
I would appreciate any thoughts on what type of light to use, how to mount it,
when to mount it, etc.
Thanks to all in advance.
Rick in inhumanly cold Minnesota
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
Yaw String .. the ultimate source of humility for glider pilots.
All gliders use a simple piece of yarn on the nose for yaw. With between 50
and 84 feet of wing, adverse yaw is not as theoretical as with their noisy
brethern.
You can judge the honesy of a glider type by asking if the yawstring is
straight all the time. If your yawstring stays straight, you can bet someone
glued it down. You can also remove a person from a competition by sneaking
their yaw string off before launch. They are not flyable without it.
Will not work too well behind a prop. I suspect that Van, since he does
gliders for recreation, appreciates the simplicity.
Bruce Patton
Putting on the tail feathers
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | HowardRV(at)aol.com |
Subject: | RV Kits, etc for Sale |
The following is offered for sale by a friend of mine in Austin, Texas:
Orndorff Tapes
Basic Sheet Metal-$5.00
Tail Kit----------$20.00
Wing Kit---------$25.00
Fues Kit---------$25.00
All for-----------$60.00
Tail Kit for RV-6/6A--$500
Wing Kit for RV-6/6A $2,700
Avery's Deluxe Tool Kit-$750
Other misc tools and machines available
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
Subject: | Re: RV6A tail light |
>I am just finishing up the tail kit for my RV6A and I am now at the point to
>consider a tail light.
>I would appreciate any thoughts on what type of light to use, how to mount it,
>when to mount it, etc.
>
>Thanks to all in advance.
>
>
>Rick in inhumanly cold Minnesota
Rick: On my first RV, the molded bump that is to receive the tail light was
not a good fit from the factory. I ended up making a new "bulge", a real
pain. On the RV I'm building now, I'm going with the 3 position wing tip
strobe, nav & tail. This saves: re-building the mounting location,
stringing wire aft and figuring how to route it through the tail and adding
undesirable weight aft. I'm sure Van's would exchange your rudder bottom
for one made without provisions for a tail light if you choose to do this.
Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com (Doug Weiler) |
Subject: | Re: RV6A tail light |
>I am just finishing up the tail kit for my RV6A and I am now at the point to
>consider a tail light.
>I would appreciate any thoughts on what type of light to use, how to mount it,
>when to mount it, etc.
>
>Thanks to all in advance.
>
>
>Rick in inhumanly cold Minnesota
Rick,
If I had it to do over again, I would plan on using the Whelen wing tips
strobes with the built-in rear facing white nav light. Van will exchange
the bottom rudder fiberglas piece for one without the light fairing.
Installing the normal white nav light in the rudder was a pain, but it can
be down. I have a short article from the Portland Builder's Group on
installing a tail light in the rudder if you decide to go that route. Let
me know and I'll send you a copy.
Doug
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
= Doug Weiler, pres. MN Wing, Van's AirForce, RV-4 in progress, N722DW
= 347 Krattley Lane
= Hudson, WI 54016
= 715-386-1239
= email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com (Doug Weiler) |
Subject: | Re: Twin Cities RV Forum |
>Doug
> Your RV gathering sounds great!! I have started a RV club in Kansas City
>and we are now 40+ members strong. I would be very interested in going to
>your event. I would not be able to fly my RV because it is only 50%
>completed. I started last Sept. If you could arrange for someone to pick me
>or a few of our members up and put us up in your home, shop whatever (I have
>found that sleeping is not an option when talking RV's) we would be more than
>happy to return the favor.
>
>John Zidek
>(913)491-2944
John:
Why don't you send me your address to the e-mail below and I'll send you a
copy of our newsletter which has all the info regarding the Forum. If I can
get an idea of how many may come from your area, we should be able to work
something regarding transportation and possibly lodging. Regardless there
are many local hotels as well. We'd look forward to having you come. We
are hoping for a very interesting and informative Forum.
Doug
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
= Doug Weiler, pres. MN Wing, Van's AirForce, RV-4 in progress, N722DW
= 347 Krattley Lane
= Hudson, WI 54016
= 715-386-1239
= email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
Subject: | Re: N-Number reservation |
> Can you pass on the phone numbers in Okc. City to call?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Howard Kidwell
> howardrv(at)a0l.com
I'll post it tomorrow from the office (I don't have it here) unless
someone beats me to it.
B F Gibbons
RV-6 (first wing)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: MX-11 Comm Radio wiring |
To the rvlisters.
This is a long message and pertains only to the MX-11 comm radio. Sorry
it's so long, but I'm not sure how to enter Eds' personnal e-mail add. (does
the aol.com go just as part of it?)
Ed,
I have a schem. that GCA modified and sent me. It is for connecting the
MX-11 to the GCA-400 intercomm. With that in mind, I'll attempt to answer
what I can.
>There are a couple of things I don't understand on the MX-11 diagram.
There is nothing on it I understand, I just hooked it up.:<)
>The dotted line that goes from #4(mic-key) to #9(mic audio) - does this
represent the PTT switch?
Yes, if you have that type. And it is tied in with the speaker (to cut it
off when you transmx so it will not give feed back squeellllllll) IF you
have a cabin speaker. I don't, so that doesn't apply.
>Does this also connect somehow with #5(spkr)?
See above regd speaker.
>Can you just omit the speaker altogether, or do you need some sort of load
on that line?
Yes and no.(Yes omit the spkr, no, you don't need a load)
> What is #11(mic - hot) for?
I was told, if my memory serves me well, that it is for a hot mike, through
a sw that would select hot vs ppt.
>Why is there a 1.5k resistor across the aux audio & audio out lines?
Now you're getting technical on me. The only reason I can give is that the
maker of the radio says put it there, and I ain't being a wize-a%%, I just
don't know.
The people at GCA were kind enough to send me a modified wiring diagram.
What he (Burt) did was to cover up the company diagram to the right of the
boxed list that you are most likely using, and he wrote in stuff. I will
list below what the box has, and to the right what Burt put in.
POWER -GND 1 to ground.
MIC-GND 2 to shield common or pin 15 of GCA400
PHONES 3 to Pin 13 of GCA400
MIC-KEY 4 to pin 5 of GCA400
SPEAKER 5 n/c (I took this as not connected, jcd)
6
AUX AUD 7 diag sym with the 1.5k resist to item 8
AUDIO OUT 8 " " " " " " " " 7
MIC AUDIO 9 to pin 12 of GCA400
28VDC 10 nothing entered
MIC (hot) 11 nothing entered
12
14VDC 13 a line to join line from #14
14VDC 14 a line to join line from #13, then to 7.5amps c/b,
then to 14vdc a/c power or switch.
POWER-GND 15 symbol to ground.
Hope I didn't tell you how to build a watch when you just asked for the
time, but it is the info that I have. I did sweat blood over this stuff.
Burt at GCA also wrote in the following: "When I wired the harness, I put a
diode on the mic key line at the MX-11 (pin 4) to isolate the mic audio
circuit from the intercomm. All jacks are grounded to pin 15 at the
Intercomm via the shields." I don't know any thing about diodes, what
volts, watts, micro-farrads, etc. Maybe Bob Nuckolls could answer that.
For what it's worth, I have had great success with the radio. I have the
coat hanger ant in my right tip, and talk up to at least 125 miles with it.
Incidentally, don't have power on and push the tmx button with the ant
disconn. It drops the radio off as if its blown. Scared the devil out of
me, thought I had burned it out. Turn it off and back on and it's OK.
If I can help any more, don't hesitate to jog me.
John D.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Harmon speed thing... |
Wellllll,... I sure don't want to start a flame war over whose a/c does what,
but...
The bird I was in is my customers, which is pictured in Hovan's home page,
and it is equipped with a 250 hp version of the 540. It also has the "J"
blade prop, which is used on the Glasair 3. Lotsa twist, very wide chord
blades. I fitted some good "looking" root fairings, slick value unknown, and
it has wheel pants same as Jon Sharp's "Nemesis". Lotsa speed stuff, but what
does that mean?
I saw 10.5 gph on the flowmeter, 20.5" mp (WOT), 2300rpm, 197mph. Calibrated
airspeed? Not a chance. A local ex-mil fella flew next to me later in his -3,
and gave me the calibrations to 200 mph (184 ind, in my bird). He swears his
calibrations are on the money, so I guess I'm basing this data on his
word....
My Lycoming manual, pg. 3-33, says the 540C will burn down to 8.5 gph @ 1800
rpm. Power output at this setting is approx. 110 hp. The chart bottoms out
there.
Insert disclaimer of your choice here.....
I don't claim to know a lot about high altitude flying, but it seems to me
that if you can maintain power to a higher altitude, you'll go a lot faster,
but indicate the same. The power chart says my engine was putting out about
135 hp/52% at that altitude. Chart interpolation is not one of my strong
points. Sounds about right, for the flow, don't you think? The same power
setting down low shows the same indicated airspeed, so what is the
conclusion?
How fast does a -4 go on 10.5 gph? I'll bet it's about the same (197 mph),
or a bit faster, due to less weight. Problem is, you can't get the engine to
burn that much at altitude, due to the power loss from lack of air density.
That's the reason for turbo's on smaller engines, or more simple bigger
engines, both suck gas at low altitudes to go fast, or go fast at higher
altitudes on the same fuel flow as their less powerful brothers (more
available power).
Different opinions welcome- Or, come get a ride and I'll show you!
Check Six!
Mark
mlfred(at)aol.com
512-918-8582 days
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
Subject: | Re: Need for Flaring tool |
On Sat, 2 Mar 1996, bill garrett wrote:
> I'm getting together an order for some things to build the RV and was
> wondering whether I need a 37 degree flaring tool. The thing seems
> expensive for the number of times I would think I'd use it. Do most of you
> own them or are you generally able to share with someone nearby who has one?
> If you own them, any suggestions as to which one to buy (the two I see
> advertised are Parker and Imperial Eastman)?
I bought one because the nearest loaner was across town. I think the
Parker is the one to get.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
I finally got a chance to test out the Vetterman SS cross-over exhaust
system with two heat muffs, hooked in series. The temp was 9 to 15 degrees.
The heater seemed to be putting out adequate heat. However, the cold air
infiltrating lessened the effect. I have an air leak between the tilt-up
canopy and the forward skin on the pilot side. I forgot to seal the notches
that are cut in the bulkhead just forward of the hinge point. The largest
volumn of air is coming through the flap arm slots in the 605 bulkhead. I
intend to make little booties similar to those on the control sticks to help
control these leaks.
I plugged in my engine heater and a little ceramic heater in the empty
baggage compartent into an automatic timer and after three hours, things
were really toasty. The heater in the cockpit helps warm the battery and
gyros and makes the seat cushions a little more comfortable. Speaking of
cushions, I'm not going to use the three density Temperfoam again. I think
I'll try the cheaper and a little less dense and lighter "Sunmate". I
didn't find the Temperfoam to be as comfortable as I expected.
My oil temperature never got over 130 degrees, this with my cooler door
completely closed. On the trip out (9 degrees), I blocked the inlet area
with duct tape, reducing the inlet area by 1/2. On initial climb out, I
thought that I would have to turn back and land as cylinder head temps
approached 425 degrees. As soon as I leveled off, the temps dropped to
350-375. On the trip back, without duct tape (15 degrees), the CHT's ran at
250-275. I think I'll look into some cowl flaps before next winter. They
should be a little easier to fit with only two pipes exiting the cowl. Does
anyone have any ideas on using a MAC servo for activating the cowl flap as
opposed to a linkage that would have to be disconnected. An electrical plug
would be a little more convenient. Would the MAC servo stand up to the
heat? Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
Subject: | Re: RV6A tail light |
>Rick,
>
>If I had it to do over again, I would plan on using the Whelen wing
>tips strobes with the built-in rear facing white nav light. Van will
>exchange the bottom rudder fiberglas piece for one without the light
>fairing. Installing the normal white nav light in the rudder was a
>pain, but it can be down. I have a short article from the Portland
>Builder's Group on installing a tail light in the rudder if you decide
>to go that route. Let me know and I'll send you a copy.
>
>Doug
>
Hi Doug,
Both you and Bob Skinner said that you would use the wingtip strobes
with the rear facing white lights. Do these give as good visibility as
the tail light, do you know? I have not finished the bottom of my RV-6
rudder and would like to minimize the weight and complexity, so I might
call Van and see if they will switch rudder bottoms.
Also, does anyone have any experience with other sources of wingtip
lights that are less expensive than the Whelan's, but 'almost' as good.
Or is this another area where it doesn't make any sense to go with
anything but the best?
Thanks and best regards,
Bill
--
___ _______________________
\ \ _ _ / /
\ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello \
X-*#####*******......./ Chicago /
o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on emp. \
\__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com /
\______________________\
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Japundza <bob(at)pop.holli.com> |
Subject: | Re: New Member, Introduction |
Stuart Fraley wrote:
>
> To the List,
>
> I've just resumed work on my RV-6 tail kit after letting it lie dormant for
> several months (new baby, etc.) I'd be real interested in seeing other
> projects within a couple-hundred miles of Evansville, Indiana.
>
> Also, is there an RV Forum and/or Dinner at Sun-n-Fun this year?
>
> Stuart Fraley
> Cheetah in the Hangar
> RV-6A in the Garage
Talk to Mike Wonder (812) 384-9016. He is the Indiana RV-guru, and he
builds RV's full time. His hangar is located on a strip west of
Bloomfield, In., and he is usually there 7 days a week. He loves to
talk! Also has a Harmon Rocket almost ready for its first flight. Not
more than a 15 min. flight from Evansville.
Tell him Bob sent you.
Bob Japundza
Kokomo, IN
RV-6 on gear
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: RV6A tail light |
Bill,
Gordan Winfield used truck running lights. The ones he got are about 1x2-3
inchs (rect. shaped). They come with either red, green, amber, clear, or
blue lens. They are about 1 inch high. At some time in the past, J C
Whitney had them for about $2.00/3.00 each. Gordan used Vans front wing tip
clear plastic enclosure and mounted these lights inside on the bulkhead. He
has had his flying 6 months longer than mine and no problems. I think the
tail is built up to fit this rect. shape, but is actually as, if not more,
streamlined than the orig.
As to the flashers, J C Whitney had a self contained unit, about 3x3x1.25
that flashes 120 times per minute. One of those on top and one on bottom
should do it. I haven't tried one, but I think they would fit in the
wingtip clear lens that Vans sells (but maynot be vis. from rear).
When building, I was under the impression that we had to use a/c stuff for
this. Tain't so. It's the light coverage that is required. After seeing
Gordons, and thinking back to those prices on whelans that I enclosed in the
Vans wing tip, I was sick in the wallet. The whelan flasher I put on is
heavy, not as bright as the JCW, and dang sure more expensive. I believe the
JCW is about 25.00. If I had it to do over, I would go that way. Put one
of those little flat dudes on top, bhind the canopy and another on bottom
under the cockpit, then the normal location for the wing tip and tail.
At Dallas Air Salvage, just the lens cover for the tip lights etc were
selling for $35.00 each!!!
As for landing lights, I used the DuckWorks. It has a light from JCW in it,
has worked fine for me, still has the orig bulb in it. Don't mean to open
up the bulb test thing again etc.
Hope this helps, or at least adds options for you to consider.
John D RV6 completed.
>Also, does anyone have any experience with other sources of wingtip
>lights that are less expensive than the Whelan's, but 'almost' as good.
> Or is this another area where it doesn't make any sense to go with
>anything but the best?
>
>Thanks and best regards,
>
>Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
Subject: | Spring back dimple dies |
Has anyone used the "spring back" dimple dies from Avery? Is there
really any difference in the dimple these dies make (are they worth
$26)?
B F Gibbons
RV-6 (first wing)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
I'm to the point where I'd like to order the wire to run through the
conduit in my wings. I'm not sure what gauge / type to order. I
want to run wire for 1) landing light; 2) position light; 3) strobe
light (power pack for strobe in the wing tip). Any advice?
B F Gibbons
RV-6 (first wing)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV6A tail light |
> I am just finishing up the tail kit for my RV6A and I am now at the point to
> consider a tail light.
> I would appreciate any thoughts on what type of light to use, how to mount it,
> when to mount it, etc.
>
Rick,
I'm still trying to figure out what to do here. I purchased the
combo white tail light and strobe to put in rudder fairing, but it
doesn't fit well. The blister in the fiberglass is simply not large
enough and not exactly the right shape. The only way I can see to
make it work correctly is to cut out the offending part and make a
new one. I've got a glass expert in the hangar with me but still,
I'm not excited by this prospect.
I could put lights in the wing tips which have the white position
lights in them, but I'm not crazy about the look of this
configuration. I'm planning landing lights in the wing tips with
position/strobe combos behind the plexiglass. Very clean looking I
think.
My question is, if the lights simply don't fit the fiberglass why
doesn't Van make the supplier change it??? I thought mine was a
fluke but apparently no one's really fits well (just look at some of
the bondo used for this application next time you walk a line of
RV's). Does anyone know of a practical solution?
B F Gibbons
RV-6 (first wing)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | klgray(at)bihs.net (Ken Gray) |
Subject: | Update and Question |
Just to update everyone on my RV-6. The FAA came back out to reissue the AW
certificate last tuesday, I have been giving rides all weekend.
With the Houston FSDO, they only give you a VFR day AW cert. at the start
and must come back to give you another one and they make the log book entry.
Any way the flight testing went great, I had my tack quit, did a little
squeezing on the ailerons, put a trim tab on the rudder and that was it!
With no wheel pants and gear leg fairings on, I can get 170mph on 75% power,
using O320 E2D 150 HP and a 70 X 70 Warnke Prop. I did the basic aerobatics;
spins, rolls, loops, 1/2 loops, 1/2 cuban eights. This was enough for me.
My question is; how do you jack up the plane to change tires after the wheel
pants and gear fairings are on? I understand taking off the wheel pants,
but the leg fairings I will be using are not removeable and puting a pipe
into the center of the axle will work for the removal process but not the
reinstall and adjusting of the axle nut.
WHAT A GREAT PLANE, keep on building, it is worth it!
Ken Gray
RV-6 N69KG, first flight 1/12/96 45 hours to date!
SN 23069 Two years and Two months, 2100 hours building time.
klgray(at)bihs.net
(409) 776 3033 home
(409) 775 4305 work
Bryan, Tx.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
Subject: | Re: Need for Flaring tool |
I bought one from Cleveland, Imperial Eastman; it works great and I even
used it on the few 1/8" copper lines even thought it's not made for
these. One of the main reasons for building an RV is so I can do my own
maintance and feel having the necessary tools is just part of it. I
don't like borrowning tools but would pay a shop to flare the tubing if I
didn't have the tool myself; think that would be cheaper?
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
On Sat, 2 Mar 1996, bill garrett wrote:
> Hi everyone-
>
> I'm getting together an order for some things to build the RV and was
> wondering whether I need a 37 degree flaring tool. The thing seems
> expensive for the number of times I would think I'd use it. Do most of you
> own them or are you generally able to share with someone nearby who has one?
> If you own them, any suggestions as to which one to buy (the two I see
> advertised are Parker and Imperial Eastman)?
>
> Thanks for any and all responses.
>
> Bill
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gene Gottschalk (286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov> |
>Is there
>>one this year and how do we get our names on the list to attend?
Cathy,
Just stop by Van's booth and sign up. Do it early in the week to be sure
you get a spot. See ya there.
-Gene
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ^ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Gene Gottschalk |N| e-mail : geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov~
~ Goddard Space Flight Center |A| [128.183.166.137] ~
~ Code 540/505, Hughes STX |S| Telephone : (301) 286-0708 ~
~ Greenbelt, MD 20771 |A| FAX : (301) 286-0270 ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ^ ^ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Radio wiring MX-11 |
Ed,
In my long letter about wiring, I got concerned with the length of my
southern drawl and left something out.
Bart at GCA also sent me an illust. of the phone & mike jacks. It includes
a fiber washer with a shoulder on it. It goes in the hole that you drill to
install the jacks, the shoulder actually fits in the hole and then the jack
goes through the washer, then there is a flat fiber washer on the other
side. What this does is insulat , from sides and in the hole, the jack stem
from the panel it's mounted through. The diagram shows the mike as a must,
but Bart suggested that both be done this way. This may have been the cause
of the squeal that I had. Nothing else I had read showed this, and none of
the parts cat. had them. GCA sent them to me when they bench checked my
radio/harness.
I previously expressed alarm at the cost vs work done on my harness by GCA.
Let me set something straight. They had told me what the cost would be, I
agreed to it. It was just that so little was done to the harness. I am
pleased with the telephone and bench help that GCA gave me. If I buy again,
I will buy from them because of the after market support they gave me. They
stayed with me.
John D
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
>Hope I didn't tell you how to build a watch when you just asked for the
>time, but it is the info that I have. I did sweat blood over this stuff.
Not at all! Thanks for taking the time to send me such a detailed reply
John. It should make things a lot easier. Especially the "blown" radio
part. :)
What is the "wire coat hangar" antenna? Has anyone used the windscreen tape
antenna?
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: RV6A tail light |
>I am just finishing up the tail kit for my RV6A and I am now at the point to
>consider a tail light.
>I would appreciate any thoughts on what type of light to use, how to mount
>it,
>when to mount it, etc.
>
The standard (Whelen?) light that Van sells works well. Bear in mind
however, that if you plan a lightweight engine setup, especially a wood prop,
you might be better off leaving the extra weight out of the extreme aft point
on the fuselage. That light and the wire will rob you of something like 2-4
pounds of baggage capability CG-wise. That may or may not be a big deal to
you. I'm going to use the wing tip lights that have the aft-facing white
light to avoid the problem.
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
Subject: | Re: Spring back dimple dies |
I assume that these are to reduce the little depresion that
sometimes surrounds a dimple. I have found that the standard
dies will make a perfec dimple without any distortion around
the hole. The trick is to not try and make the dimple in one
wack. I dimple each hole with 4 smaller wacks with a 16 Oz.
hammer. You can tell when the dimple is complete, the sound
will change to a more solid sound. Over dimpeling can cause
the same depression by stretching the material. Propper
dimples are a real art and if you want good results you should
practice on some scrap material to get the feel of what works
before you start on the real thing.
All of ther above assumes the use of the Avery "C" tool.
Chris
>
> Has anyone used the "spring back" dimple dies from Avery? Is there
> really any difference in the dimple these dies make (are they worth
> $26)?
> B F Gibbons
> RV-6 (first wing)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Rolf Hankers" <ROLF(at)abraham.iff.ing.tu-bs.de> |
Subject: | Re: Spin Question |
hey,
I mentioned the height loss during spins in a previous mail. To sum
it up: the altitude loss during spinning ist approx. 400 to 500 ft
for every revolution; this is much more than with a Cessna 150. With a
spinning time of ca. 2 seconds for every round there is a vertical
speed of 12000 to 15000 ft/min. The RV-4 ist spinning quite fast and
requires positiv anti-spin-inputs to stop the spin.
To the qualification of the pilots: most spin tests were performed
from a member of the German aerobatic team and a participant of the
world aerobatics championship; so I am shure he can recognize the
difference between a spin and a spiral.
(By the way: you can not fly a death spiral with the nose pointing
downwards for 8 rounds without exceeding by far the red line speed)
Rolf Hankers
RV-4 1880 (flying)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | David Riehl <driehl(at)cycor.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Harmon Rocket |
>Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 09:09:43 -0400
>To: sburch(at)Infi.Net (stan burchett)
>From: David Riehl <driehl(at)bud.peinet.pe.ca>
>Subject: Re: Harmon Rocket
>X-Attachments: D:\DAVID\AVIATION\W&B\Rocketii.wk4;
>
>>Those of us contemplating the Rocket mod will appreciate any data you &
>>brother can post on the RV list, following flight testing. in the mean
>>time..your weight and balance numbers would be of interest? Thanks..and
>>have a good flight!
>>
>> Stan from Yorktown, VA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Stan, as per your request.
>
>I have attached a Lotus 123r5 spreadsheet on the W&B info.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
Subject: | Re: RV Kits, etc for Sale |
I would like to by all the tapes for 60.00.
Herman Dierks 838-2831 wk or 255-0265 home
> The following is offered for sale by a friend of mine in Austin, Texas:
>
> Orndorff Tapes
> Basic Sheet Metal-$5.00
> Tail Kit----------$20.00
> Wing Kit---------$25.00
> Fues Kit---------$25.00
> All for-----------$60.00
>
> Tail Kit for RV-6/6A--$500
> Wing Kit for RV-6/6A $2,700
> Avery's Deluxe Tool Kit-$750
> Other misc tools and machines available
>
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis
phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831
MS: 9530 fax: 512-838-1801
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Steve Day" <sday(at)pharmcomp.com> |
Subject: | Re: Spring back dimple dies |
>Has anyone used the "spring back" dimple dies from Avery? Is there
>really any difference in the dimple these dies make (are they worth
>$26)?
If you are talking about the spring set you can buy for their big 'C' tool,
I love it. It speeds up the process and lowers the blood pressure. I was
always worried about dragging the tool across the skins, now it pops up and
stays out of the way as I slide the skin to the next hole.
If you are talking about a different set of actual dies, I don't know.
-Steve Day
sday(at)pharmcomp.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Electrical Wiring |
>>usually very specific to the radios you choose. remember to purchase or
have
>>supplied that wiring data when you buy your radios if you plan on doing the
>>wiring yourself.
>
>Where can this data be obtained? I just bought a TKM comm and a Narco xpdr
>and the "manual" that came with them is just an operation manual for an end
>user. The info makes it sound like they don't want anyone but an avionics
>tech touching those colored spaghetti things in the back.
>
>-- Ed Bundy
>
>
Ed:
Be sure to ask for the installation data when you order the radios. If the
wholesale house can't supply that data, chum up to your local avionics shop
guy and get him to make copies of the installation wiring data. Even with
that data, it does take a bit of knowledge to complete you installation. If
you don't have that background, or feel that you aren't up to it, then get
the aid of somebody who does. Or have a avionics shop do the work. If not
installed properly, it will cost you bigger dollars to repair it later.
Be sure that the proper crimping tools are used, nomatter who does the
job. Loose wires later on, or broken wires, will leave you pulling your hair
out.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
>Enough about Oshkosh! My husband Dale & I are planning on
>visiting Sun N Fun next month. We were there two years ago and
>found it was much smaller and not so overwhelming as Oshkosh.
>Got lots of pictures of RVs and had a great time talking to the
>owners. We found out after the fact when we were that there had
>been an RV banquet with Van's people in attendance. Is there
>one this year and how do we get our names on the list to attend?
>
>See you at Sun 'N Fun
>
>Cathy & Dale Lamport
>Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario, Canada
>SN 23861
>Tail & Wings finished
>
>P.S. I guess we will have to unsubscribe when we are away or our
>computer will burst from all the RV messages.
Call Van's for reservations and/or tickets. There is a dinner every year.
See you There......
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
Subject: | Re: RV6A tail light |
>Also, does anyone have any experience with other sources of wingtip
>lights that are less expensive than the Whelan's, but 'almost' as good.
> Or is this another area where it doesn't make any sense to go with
>anything but the best?
>
>Thanks and best regards,
>
>Bill
Bill:
One thing I noticed soon after I got my 4 flying was how hard it was for
people to see me. I have whelan's tip and tail strobes and tip landing
lights. When
I'm comming in or taking off I run everything I've got. I don't want to be a
smudge on someones windscreen. There are too many people that are not
looking for tiny airplanes that go like hell. I guess what I'm trying to
say is don't try to "just get by" on collision aviodance lights.
As far as the tail light. It's a pain. I cut a 1/8 thick piece of
alunminum the shape (sort of) the rudder bottom receptical then cut a hole in it
the size of the light. Glassed that to the rudder bottom. Drilled and tapped
it to accept the tail light. It's hard to explain but it looks good and it
works.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
Subject: | Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question |
Just throwing my 2 cents in here. Being an electronic guy and having
worked on VOR ground stations, I can tell you that the antenna feedline
lengths on the GROUND STATIONS is *very* critical. This is because they
use a phased-array antenna so they can rotate the radiation pattern.
Of course, this does *not* apply to airborne VOR receivers but perhaps some
kind of urban legend has developed which says not to modify ANY VOR antenna
feedlines?
There might be another explaination: My VOR theory is a little rusty, but
don't they work by comparing the phase of a reference signal and a radial
position signal? If these signals are at different RF carrier frequencies,
and the RG-58 has a velocity characteristic which is frequency-dependant,
then it may well be that the receiving antenna feedline is cut to a
particular calibrated length. Changing that length will introduce
phase-error into the two VOR signals, and, indeed uncalibrate your VOR.
Just guessing, I'm probably wrong.-
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Removable panel? |
I put the A/S, Autopilot, AI, DG, VSI & Alt. on a removable panel (about 9" X
13"), mounted on rubber shock mounts. With this pannel removed (in about 5
minutes) I have access to most everything behind the pannel. On the right
side of my instrument stack I used Vision Microsystem guages which are very
thin (3/4" or so) so I can reach behind them for access. All of my switches
are mounted in a center console and my breakers for the radios are mounted on
the lower portion of the pannel for easy access. All other breakers have
easy access.
Make some paper cutouts of the instruments that you intend to use, lay them
on your pannel, and start to formulate the lay-out. Once you have some thing
you like, start cutting (don't forget that there are minimum clearances
between some instruments).
I did mine on my computer and saved my work as a print file. I brought this
to a printing shop and had a full scale drawing printed. I then layed this
on top of my pannel and center-punched everything. I drilled my pilot holes
and used some borrowed instrument punches. One shot, very easy (although the
computer drawing changed about 100 times before I printed it).
Think about it but don't get obsessive about it.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
Subject: | Re: Update and Question |
> Just to update everyone on my RV-6. The FAA came back out to reissue the AW
> certificate last tuesday, I have been giving rides all weekend.
Ken,
Congratulations!!!!
B F Gibbons
RV-6 (first wing)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | David Riehl <driehl(at)cycor.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Harmon Rocket |
--=====================_825985650==_
>>Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 09:09:43 -0400
>>To: sburch(at)Infi.Net (stan burchett)
>>From: David Riehl <driehl(at)bud.peinet.pe.ca>
>>Subject: Re: Harmon Rocket
>>X-Attachments: D:\DAVID\AVIATION\W&B\Rocketii.wk4;
>>
>>>Those of us contemplating the Rocket mod will appreciate any data you &
>>>brother can post on the RV list, following flight testing. in the mean
>>>time..your weight and balance numbers would be of interest? Thanks..and
>>>have a good flight!
>>>
>>> Stan from Yorktown, VA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Stan, as per your request.
>>
>>I have attached a Lotus 123r5 spreadsheet on the W&B info.
>>
>
>
>
2nd try on attachment, sorry
David
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JIM SCHMIDT <JIM.SCHMIDT(at)mail.mei.com> |
Subject: | Bellcrank Installation -Reply |
Amazing parallel thinking I did this 2 week
ends ago.
jim
RV6 fitting aileron control rods
>>> 03/02/96 09:31pm >>>
Wow, I installed the first real control
system in my 6A today. The Aileron
bellcranks. I stood there marveling at how
smooth they operated and imagined the
ailerons responding to my every command as I
moved the bellcrank back and forth. I have
not had such vivid images since the day I
mounted my elevators on the horz stab. Will
this beast ever get done?
Anyway, the reason for the post is share my
experience in making the short little
spacers for the belcrank from the 6061-T6
3/8 tube supplied for this purpose. The
plans say the spacers are to be approximatly
7/16" in length and mine ended up being
0.430", or approximatly 7/16. Cutting the
tube was no problem at all, the bandsaw did
a great job. The problem was that I had cut
the parts a little long (SOP) and planed to
file or sand the pieces to the proper
length. The parts are so small there was no
way I could hold them up the the belt or
disk sander to remove the remaing material
(they got hot real fast) and filing was
taking forever. The solution was to chuck
the small tubes in my 3/8 drill and take
them to the disk sander while the part was
spinning in the drill chuck. This worked
great. The ends of the tubes come out
perfectly flat (perpendicular to the length)
and due to the heat sink or rotation of the
chuck (air motion) the parts when removed
from the drill were not even warm.
This was a very fast way of making the parts
and they came out exactly the
0.430 inches that I needed.
Gary Zilik RV-6A 22993 (cutting leading
edge for Duck Works Landing Light)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Arrowbat(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Gliders/Yaw String |
Ditto that! Glider flying taught me how sloppy I had become after 200 hrs in
spam can trikes....."hmmm - so THat's what those pedals are for!!" After
numerous smacks in the back of the head (thanks to that !@#$%$ yaw string) I
finally got my add-on rating in an SGS2-33 and am DEfinately a better
all-around pilot now. Besides, its a BLast & I highly recommend it!!! And
if you don't have any pilot certificates yet, I suggest you learn gliders
FIRst....sure wish I had!
Mike Calhoon
RV6 #22991- doin' tanks (yek) :>{
getting Grob-103 checkout......YEEhaaaww!!
P.S. I think Van (as with many of us) likes soaring because of the FREE
lift !!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
Subject: | Re: Spring back dimple dies (fwd) |
God, it is amaizing how these questions go off on a tangent.
This question is NOT about the spring on the Avery C tool.
The 'spring back dimple dies' are special made to dimple the
skin just a little more than what is exactly true so that the
material will spring back to the exact shape needed.
Most dimple dies don't account for the fact that the aluminum
springs back a little after you hit it with a hammer or squeze it
with a squeezer. Therefore the skin is not exactly perfect after
you dimple. The folks that invented the spring-back dies are
seeking perfection in the dimpling process.
I built my RV before these were invented. I bought a set a few months
back but have not used them yet.
Herman
> From: "Steve Day" <pharmcomp.com!sday(at)matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Spring back dimple dies
> Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Precedence: junk
> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> >Has anyone used the "spring back" dimple dies from Avery? Is there
> >really any difference in the dimple these dies make (are they worth
> >$26)?
>
> If you are talking about the spring set you can buy for their big 'C' tool,
> I love it. It speeds up the process and lowers the blood pressure. I was
> always worried about dragging the tool across the skins, now it pops up and
> stays out of the way as I slide the skin to the next hole.
>
> If you are talking about a different set of actual dies, I don't know.
>
> -Steve Day
> sday(at)pharmcomp.com
>
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
Subject: | Wiring in wings (fwd) |
The size of wire is a function of the amp load and the distance.
These are published in various aircraft handbooks.
You need to size the wire to carry the load.
You size the CB to protect the wire.
I have a Electronics International Volt/Amp guage in my RV-4
and here is what is shows some of these components draw in amps.
This is with the engine off, just drawing from the 12V battery.
These are approx from my memory.
100 W Halogin landing light. 6.2 amps
55 W Halogen taxi light 3.0 amps
3 nav lights total 5.1 Amp
Strobe light (Whelen Dual Flash strobes in each wing) 7 amps (fluctuates)
I think the boost pump is about 3 amps.
I screwed up and only put a 5 amp CB switch for the nav lights and this
is too low as it will trip the CB sometimes. I am upgrading it to 10 amps.
I think in general a 18 guage is fine for all the Nav light runs
to each wing and tail.
I ran 16 guage to the taxi and landing lights but that may be overkill
but I had lots of 16 guage wire on hand.
I als ran 16 guage to the strobe power supply under the seat.
Herman
> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> I'm to the point where I'd like to order the wire to run through the
> conduit in my wings. I'm not sure what gauge / type to order. I
> want to run wire for 1) landing light; 2) position light; 3) strobe
> light (power pack for strobe in the wing tip). Any advice?
>
> B F Gibbons
> RV-6 (first wing)
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
Subject: | Re: Spring back dimple dies |
On Mon, 4 Mar 1996, B F Gibbons wrote:
> Has anyone used the "spring back" dimple dies from Avery? Is there
> really any difference in the dimple these dies make (are they worth
> $26)?
> B F Gibbons
> RV-6 (first wing)
I get a lot of comments about how nice my rivets look, and how nice my
dimples are. I've often been asked "Who's dimple dies did you use?".
THey are Avery spring-back dimple dies. I would use dies from either
Avery or Cleveland. I WOULD NOT use dies from anyone else.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
Subject: | Re: Wiring in wings |
On Mon, 4 Mar 1996, B F Gibbons wrote:
> I'm to the point where I'd like to order the wire to run through the
> conduit in my wings. I'm not sure what gauge / type to order. I
> want to run wire for 1) landing light; 2) position light; 3) strobe
> light (power pack for strobe in the wing tip). Any advice?
The first thing you need is a copy of AC43-13. There is a chart
(referenced by para 444) that specifies the size of wire. You need to know:
1. The amount of current in Amps that the wire is going to carry.
2. The length of the wire.
I used 14 guage wire for the landing light, and 18 guage for the nav light.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
Subject: | Re: RV6A tail light |
Rear visibility is legal with the two rear facing wing-tip white lights.
>From a practical point of view there aren't too many aircraft that are going
to run you down from dead astern.
Leo Davies
>>Rick,
>>
>>If I had it to do over again, I would plan on using the Whelen wing
>>tips strobes with the built-in rear facing white nav light. Van will
>>exchange the bottom rudder fiberglas piece for one without the light
>>fairing. Installing the normal white nav light in the rudder was a
>>pain, but it can be down. I have a short article from the Portland
>>Builder's Group on installing a tail light in the rudder if you decide
>>to go that route. Let me know and I'll send you a copy.
>>
>>Doug
>>
>
>Hi Doug,
>
>Both you and Bob Skinner said that you would use the wingtip strobes
>with the rear facing white lights. Do these give as good visibility as
>the tail light, do you know? I have not finished the bottom of my RV-6
>rudder and would like to minimize the weight and complexity, so I might
>call Van and see if they will switch rudder bottoms.
>
>Also, does anyone have any experience with other sources of wingtip
>lights that are less expensive than the Whelan's, but 'almost' as good.
> Or is this another area where it doesn't make any sense to go with
>anything but the best?
>
>Thanks and best regards,
>
>Bill
>--
>
> ___ _______________________
> \ \ _ _ / /
> \ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello \
> X-*#####*******......./ Chicago /
> o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on emp. \
> \__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com /
> \______________________\
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dholmes(at)teleport.com |
Subject: | Re: SUN 'N FUN Banquet |
<---- Begin Forwarded Message ---->
From: aol.com!WStucklen(at)matronics.com
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:19:32 -0500
Subject: Re: RV-List: SUN 'N FUN
>Enough about Oshkosh! My husband Dale & I are planning on
>visiting Sun N Fun next month. We were there two years ago and
>found it was much smaller and not so overwhelming as Oshkosh.
>Got lots of pictures of RVs and had a great time talking to the
>owners. We found out after the fact when we were that there had
>been an RV banquet with Van's people in attendance. Is there
>one this year and how do we get our names on the list to attend?
>
>See you at Sun 'N Fun
>
>Cathy & Dale Lamport
>Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario, Canada
>SN 23861
>Tail & Wings finished
>
>P.S. I guess we will have to unsubscribe when we are away or our
>computer will burst from all the RV messages.
Call Van's for reservations and/or tickets. There is a dinner every year.
See you There......
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
<---- End Forwarded Message ---->
According to RVator Feb. the banquet is Tues. 16th 6:30 PM cocktails and dinner
at 7:30 at the Lakeland Center, Lake Hunter Room
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
One of the guys in my hangar is about to first flight his 4 and has managed
to put off comming up with seats for his bird. He wants to go to S&F and
doesn't want to sit on the floor.
Mine were done by D.J. Lauritzen and I like them, but I think she's busy and
he doesn't want to wait that long. So he asked if I would see if anybody on
the list has any other good sources. So I'm asking? (I told him to sit on
an orange crate until D.J. could do them...)
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
Subject: | Re: Update and Question |
y question is; how do you jack up the plane to change tires after the wheel
>pants and gear fairings are on? I understand taking off the wheel pants,
>but the leg fairings I will be using are not removeable and puting a pipe
>into the center of the axle will work for the removal process but not the
>reinstall and adjusting of the axle nut.
>
>Ken Gray
>RV-6 N69KG, first flight 1/12/96 45 hours to date!
>SN 23069 Two years and Two months, 2100 hours building time.
Ken: Larry Vetterman sells a neat little gaget that fits through a modified
axle nut into the hollow axle. You then place a small jack under the jack
pad and away you go.
Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
Subject: | Re: RV6A tail light |
>I'm still trying to figure out what to do here. I purchased the
>combo white tail light and strobe to put in rudder fairing, but it
>doesn't fit well. The blister in the fiberglass is simply not large
>enough and not exactly the right shape. The only way I can see to
>make it work correctly is to cut out the offending part and make a
>new one. I've got a glass expert in the hangar with me but still,
>I'm not excited by this prospect.
>
>I could put lights in the wing tips which have the white position
>lights in them, but I'm not crazy about the look of this
>configuration. I'm planning landing lights in the wing tips with
>position/strobe combos behind the plexiglass. Very clean looking I
>think.
>
>My question is, if the lights simply don't fit the fiberglass why
>doesn't Van make the supplier change it??? I thought mine was a
>fluke but apparently no one's really fits well (just look at some of
>the bondo used for this application next time you walk a line of
>RV's). Does anyone know of a practical solution?
>B F Gibbons
>RV-6 (first wing)
B F: I initially was goingto put the nav lights under the tip lenses. Then
I got to thinking, the lights are there for safety reasons and a light
mounted under a lens is not as visible as one mounted on the tip, is most
likely not legal and may or may not pass certification inspection. If you
put the lights "uder glass", I'd check with your GADO or FSDO to see if they
will approve this installation. The other problem with this is that
personel change and the guy that OK's the installation today may be gone
tommorrow. I liked the previous post. Light the airplane up like a
Christmas tree.
Some of the FG parts that Van's ship aren't very good. How many people
ended up with wing tips that were 1/4" short or empanage fairings that don't
fit? The rudder bottom is another example, but hey, it beats building a
scratch built. Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | scottg(at)villagenet.com (Scott Gesele) |
Subject: | Re: Spring back dimple dies |
>Has anyone used the "spring back" dimple dies from Avery? Is there
>really any difference in the dimple these dies make (are they worth
>$26)?
>B F Gibbons
>RV-6 (first wing)
>
>
There are about 15,000 rivets in an RV. When you consider how many of these
are flush, the cost of the dies are insignificant. The dimple dies from
Avery are top notch. When you consdier the time and money that goes into
getting an RV in the air, why would anyone consider trying to save $10 on a
tool that is used so often.
-Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | KUKULSKIM(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Harmon speed thing... |
Okay, lots of discussion about Harmon Rocket II speed and climb
capability. Let's grant that these performance advantages are in fact
there.
Now, help me out on this part. My education is in aeronautical
engineering, but I can't seem to follow this.
The RV-4 manual lists a gross weight of 1500 pounds. It also describes
the airplane as a plus or minus 6-G aircraft, with the standard 1.5
safety factor yielding a 9-G ultimate design load. The manual states, in
underlines, "G-limits of over 6 should never intentionally be applied to
an RV-4 structure." Incidently, this 6-G limit is intended for an RV-4 at
aerobatic gross weight, which is 1375 pounds. Redline is listed as 210
mph, and flutter testing has been completed to 230 mph. I'll assume the
RV-6 numbers are similar, if not exactly the same.
The Harmon Rocket II was described in the February 1993 SPORT AVIATION as
having RV-6 wings, modified by reducing each wing center section by 6.5"
in span, resulting in 13" less total wingspan. No other wing mod is
mentioned. The gross weight is listed as 1781 pounds. Redline is listed
as 275 mph, and the article describes the aircraft as capable of plus or
minus 9-G ultimate load.
So, in summary, 281 pounds heavier at gross and the reported G-load
capability is unchanged. A big reason Van refused to endorse this
modification was the lack of any engineering analysis of the changes.
This may have been done since, and perhaps Harmon no longer claims the
same G-load capability. Without in any way intending to malign Mr
Harmon's building skills or ingenuity in developing the Rocket II, anyone
building one is incurring risks that I can't exactly quantify, but which
exist in the mind of a reputable and conservative designer, Van himself.
I also note that Van did not seem to mind the original Harmon Rocket mod
to the RV-3, so I suspect his misgivings over the Rocket II have merit. I
fly USAF fighters, so I can accept risk in flying, but I want to know
where there those risks lie so I can manage them.
I don't mean this this as a condemnation of the Harmon Rockets; they are
impressive airplanes, but you will be much more a test pilot in one given
these unknowns.
Mike Kukulski (kukulskim(at)aol.com)
RV-4 N96MK (installing trim system)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | bill garrett <bgarrett(at)fast.net> |
Subject: | Flaring Tool / RV6A tail light |
First-
Thanks to everyone who replied regarding a flaring tool. I decided to "bite
the bullet" and buy one from Avery rather than wait (don't know if I'll make
Oshkosh) or try to borrow one (probably lose more of my valuable building
time that the tool costs) and I agree with whoever wrote that it's nice to
have the tools to do my own work.
Regarding the tail light-
After receiving my tail kit and talking to builders at the RV Forum in
Frederick, MD I sent my rudder bottom back for just the two reasons already
mentioned:
a) I don't want the extra weight in the tail of my RV, and
b) builders then (2 years ago) were complaining about the difficulty
of installing the light in the opening.
I think it cost me about $11 plus the cost to UPS the original one back to
Oregon. I figure it was a good deal. I plan to mount some kind of wingtip
lights (probably the Whelen 3 position although I cringe at the cost too).
I figure they will do at least a satisfactory job letting others see me from
the rear and besides, how many planes can run an RV down from behind anyway!
:) The thing I'm more interested in is wiring my landing and/or taxi
light(s) to some sort of flasher so those closing on me from the front know
I'm there.
Just another opinion.
>I am just finishing up the tail kit for my RV6A and I am now at the point to
>consider a tail light.
>I would appreciate any thoughts on what type of light to use, how to mount it,
>when to mount it, etc.
>
>Thanks to all in advance.
>
>
>Rick in inhumanly cold Minnesota
Bill
/```|`\
/| _ _ _ _ / | \
|| ,* | ````~~.._ _ / | \
|| _ _,*_ _ _|_ _ _ _ _ / ```~~~..._/ | \
_||_.~`````` Bill Garrett <::::::::> \
<_ _| RV-6A Pottstown, PA N153BG | /
|| \ ..~~~~~~~......_ _ _ _ _.|.~~``
|| `~._ '.....................> _ _...~~~~`````
|| `//`````````````\\``````````
\| // \\
_//_ _\\_
( _`: ( _`:
````` `````
Husband and Father
Mathematics Teacher
Airplane Builder - working on the wings
________________________________________________________________________________
Ed,
The wire coat hanger ant I had refernce to is in Sport Aviation Oct 92, page
105. It was submitted by Greg Rainwater of Everett Wash.
I offhandly write from his article.
There are 4 parts: a length of RG-58 coax cable(from radio to wing tip), one
SO-239 coax connector, one PL-259 connector and one coat hanger. Coax and
connectors are avail. from Radio Shack, the coat hanger from your closet(if
you haven't gone all plastic). The 239 is a female, bulkhead type connector,
needs a hole and 4 screws to hold it to the bulkhead (mine is on the forward
section of right outside wing rib). The center of the coax is soldered to
the center pin of the connector, with the shield into a lug and grounded on
one of the screws. Says to use a plastic shield betwwen the two so the will
not accid. touch. The coat hanger is cut to 22.9 inches and soldered to the
259 and installed. the hanger on mine, I bent into a gentle curve so that
it is sprung into the crack where the top and bottom of the wing tip come
together. Figure that it is then supported some so that it doesn't 'hang'
all of time on the solder joint. It works fine and is concealed.
Please don't ask me why the ant is EXACTLY 22.9 in., something about mid
freq of comm freq, a 1/4 wave length etc. And don't confuse me with the
vertical vs. horizontal polarity, I don't know what it is, much less
understand it..IT WORKS.
He says that he was using it on his RV4 and does fine. I've had mine on for
two years, and if there has ever been a 'blanking" by the fuse./wing/etc.--I
didn't hear it :-).(HOO HA, I couldn't resist that straight line!)
To me. it is light, very low cost, concealed, and operates. That's good
enough for me.
John D RV6 N61764 completed
>What is the "wire coat hangar" antenna? Has anyone used the windscreen tape
>antenna?
>
>-- Ed Bundy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | bill garrett <bgarrett(at)fast.net> |
>I'm to the point where I'd like to order the wire to run through the
>conduit in my wings. I'm not sure what gauge / type to order. I
>want to run wire for 1) landing light; 2) position light; 3) strobe
>light (power pack for strobe in the wing tip). Any advice?
>
>B F Gibbons
>RV-6 (first wing)
If you have Tony Bingelis' books, two of them (Sportplane Construction
Techniques and especially Firewall Forward)have some very specific
information regarding electrical loads for various equipment, breakers vs.
fuses (suggests you can use heavier breakers than fuses in the certain wire
sizes) wiring diagrams, etc. Interesting stuff to read and study.
According to his figures, the following are required for your applications:
Landing light - 8.4 to 15.6 amps - 14 AWG (radically disagrees w/ what was
posted today)
Position lights - 1.7 to 5.6 amps - 18 AWG
Strobe lights - 2.0 to 4.0 amps - 18 AWG
BTW, if you're using the Whelen system, I think the wiring package has most
of the wire you need for your runs to the wingtips (could be wrong on this one).
If you don't have Tony B's books, I'd highly recommend getting them.
Bill
/```|`\
/| _ _ _ _ / | \
|| ,* | ````~~.._ _ / | \
|| _ _,*_ _ _|_ _ _ _ _ / ```~~~..._/ | \
_||_.~`````` Bill Garrett <::::::::> \
<_ _| RV-6A Pottstown, PA N153BG | /
|| \ ..~~~~~~~......_ _ _ _ _.|.~~``
|| `~._ '.....................> _ _...~~~~`````
|| `//`````````````\\``````````
\| // \\
_//_ _\\_
( _`: ( _`:
````` `````
Husband and Father
Mathematics Teacher
Airplane Builder - working on the wings
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
Subject: | O-290 GPU with both mags |
I recently bought an O-290 GPU that had been mounted on an airboat with the
intention of maybe using it on something like a Cub or Glastar or who knows.
It has both mags and an oil cooler along with a starter ring.
I've decided to sell it so if you know of anyone that may be interested in
it have them either call or e-mail me. My home phone number is 206-525-5445
between 6:00 and 9:00 Pacific time.
I've run the motor and it seems to be ok. I haven't done a compression
check but I do know that it has been in dry storage for about 19 years. It
started on the 3rd or 4th prop, though.
thanks,
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
Subject: | Re: Update and Question |
>Just to update everyone on my RV-6. The FAA came back out to reissue the AW
>certificate last tuesday, I have been giving rides all weekend.
>
>
>My question is; how do you jack up the plane to change tires after the wheel
>pants and gear fairings are on? I understand taking off the wheel pants,
>but the leg fairings I will be using are not removeable and puting a pipe
>into the center of the axle will work for the removal process but not the
>reinstall and adjusting of the axle nut.
>
>WHAT A GREAT PLANE, keep on building, it is worth it!
>
>Ken Gray
>RV-6 N69KG, first flight 1/12/96 45 hours to date!
>SN 23069 Two years and Two months, 2100 hours building time.
>klgray(at)bihs.net
>(409) 776 3033 home
>(409) 775 4305 work
>Bryan, Tx.
>
I place a headless bolt in the hole for the tiedown and use a tall tripod
jack with a depression in the top of the jack. Do NOT use a short jack with
a plastic bucket under it. I leave it to your imagination to think what can
happen when you have a heavy airplane wing 6 inches in the air and it's a
hot day. What happens to plastic when it gets hot? Right; no damage
luckily to the aircraft.
Just a short story about the tripod jack.
I went out to my favorite discount aircraft supply house at Boeing field
with the intention of buying a tripod jack (after experience with plastic
bucket). I found a pair of jacks for $300; serious money. Figured
bargaining couldn't hurt. After a few minutes I managed to get the price
lowered to $255 for the pair. Couldn't budge him any lower. Really didn't
need or want two jacks so then offered $125 for one. He say's ok. You
explain it.
As it turned out a friend in a hangar across the taxiway has one also. So,
when either of us needs two, no problem.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Fred Hiatt" <hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu> |
To JMP:
Would you share your autopilot info with me?
Please respond to: hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu
Thanks, Fred Hiatt
interserv.com!jperri(at)matronics.com wrote:
>Ron .. get in touch with Forrest. He had one and replaced it with a S-Tec like
>mine. They are expensive but really good! Several decisions need to be prior to
>puchase. Is a wing leveler all you need or do you want a good cross country and
>IFR type system ? I have done a lot of both. I have my own opinions which I
>would glad to share with the group at the next meeting. Hope I can make it..
>
>JMP
>
>
Fred Hiatt, RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
Subject: | Re: Spring back dimple dies |
> There are about 15,000 rivets in an RV. When you consider how many of these
> are flush, the cost of the dies are insignificant. The dimple dies from
> Avery are top notch. When you consdier the time and money that goes into
> getting an RV in the air, why would anyone consider trying to save $10 on a
> tool that is used so often.
>
Agreed. I didn't do a very good job with my question. I purchased
my dies from Avery two years ago, but I'm pretty sure they weren't
called "spring back" dies at that time. I assume Avery has changed
the dies during this time. I'm just wondering if I should pitch mine
and buy new ones. I think I would have been better off to just order
the dies and save the band width. I'm sure Steve Day would agree, eh
Steve? :) (I thought I read that there were 30,000 rivets in an RV)
Thank God Van didn't design a biplane! Two wings is enough.
B F Gibbons
RV-6 (first wing)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
>One of the guys in my hangar is about to first flight his 4 and has managed
>to put off comming up with seats for his bird. He wants to go to S&F and
>doesn't want to sit on the floor.
>
>Mine were done by D.J. Lauritzen and I like them, but I think she's busy and
>he doesn't want to wait that long. So he asked if I would see if anybody on
>the list has any other good sources. So I'm asking? (I told him to sit on
>an orange crate until D.J. could do them...)
>
>Regards:
>Rusty Gossard
>N47RG RV-4 Flying
Rusty: I paid an local upholstery shop $ 165.00. I already had purchased
two, 3", 3-density Temperfoam (won't do that again) seat cushions and two 1"
seat backs of "Sumate". The shop added 2" of generic medium density foam to
the seat bottoms and one inch to the seat backs. The Temperfoam really
needs some additional padding, it got pretty uncomfortable after flying 3
1/2 hours. (I flew the test period off with the Temperfoam in a pillow
case.) They also made two stick "booties". I'm sure they're not as nice as
DJ's, but they suit me and I liked the price. Besides, I'm not into
leather, too kinky:)
Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Baines <bill(at)sfu.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Wiring in Wings |
In response to B G Gibons:
To choose a wire gauge, I usually use the charts in AC43.13-1a. (Ref
Fig: 11-7 and 11-7A on pages 182, 182-1). They are based on
established standards, and are adequate for most general purpose
aircraft electrical installations. The choice of wire gauge depends on
supply voltage (i.e. 14V, 28V, 115Vac@400 Hz etc.) acceptable voltage
drop (usually accepted as .5V for 14V sply, 1V for 28V sply), Whether
the load is operated intermittently (<2 min -- flap motor or radio
transmitter for example, or landing light, although many of us fly
with our landing lights on longer than 2 minutes in busy terminal
areas), or continuously (engine instruments, nav lights, radio
receivers). Another consideration is disipation of heat from the
wire. Not usually a problem in light aircraft, but in bundles of 1/2
inch or more, the center wires can warm up a lot.
Below are some interpolations from the charts. Assumptions are 14V
Sply, Wires in bundles, continuous load. (Chart is hand typed with
tabs to align colums -- hope it is readable) Length in ft is maximum
length allowable given the gauge (LH column) and continuous current
(top row).
Current
AWG 1A 2A 3A 4A 5A 7A 10A 15A 20A
20 49ft 23ft 17ft 11ft 10ft 7ft
18 75ft 38ft 25ft 19ft 16ft 10ft 8ft
16 100ft 53ft 35ft 26ft 21ft 15ft 10ft
14 80ft 60ft 42ft 33ft 23ft 17ft 11ft
12 88ft 68ft 53ft 37ft 26ft 18ft 13ft
10 90ft 65ft 46ft 31ft 22ft
Example: Landing Light. Assume continuous load, 60Watt, 14Vdc Sply,
Length of run from Breaker thru switch to lamp assy = 30ft.
Pwr = Current x Voltage, so, Current = Pwr/Voltage
= 60/14
= 4.2 Amp
Move right from 4.2 along top row to 5A column, Move down to first
entry > 30 Ft, (33 Ft) read guage (14 Gauge). (You migght get away
with AWG16 becaue the current is really 4.2 Amps, but my experience is
that landing light wires get hot in the area of the bulb because of
the enclosed area, so a heavier gauge doesn't hurt (excepting weight).
A comment about wire. I plan to use lo end Tefzel M22759/16. It is
rated at 150 deg C, has a thin 10mil wall thickness, has relatively
good abbrasion resistance, and is readily available. I plan to stay
away from the older Mil-w-5086 wire. It has PVC insulation, gases
toxic when hot, and is rated at 105 Deg C.
I recommend AC43.13-1a, and AC65.15A (Airframe) for lots of good
"standard" information on Aircraft systems --saves lots of guesswork.
Sorry for the length of this message. Usual disclaimers -- I don't
type well.
--
Bill Baines, bill(at)sfu.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Update and Question |
>Just to update everyone on my RV-6. The FAA came back out to reissue the AW
>certificate last tuesday, I have been giving rides all weekend.>
>With the Houston FSDO, they only give you a VFR day AW cert. at the start
>and must come back to give you another one and they make the log book entry.
Congratulations Ken -
I'm about 1 month away from first flight in my 6A - putting on some paint - Email
me
and I,ll come see you from Ellington (Houston) when I'm up
Regards, Rob Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: IRC Chat On RV's |
>If there is interest, I will start a room called RV-Stuff on Tuesday 3-5-96
>at 8:00 PM Eastern Time.
>If anyone has any questions on logging into chat in general, e-mail me
>personally and I will try to help.
>Any comments or interest in a chat on Tuesday, post some sort of reply to
>the list.
>-Scott N506RV
Scott... I'll be there, - we are talking "undernet" aren't we? - let me know
Regards, Rob Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)compuserve.com> |
Subject: | Re: VOR Antennas-associated Question |
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: Curt Reimer, INTERNET:Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA
DATE: 3/4/96 3:46 PM
RE: Re: RV-List: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question
>There might be another explaination: My VOR theory is a little rusty, but
>don't they work by comparing the phase of a reference signal and a radial
>position signal? If these signals are at different RF carrier frequencies,
>and the RG-58 has a velocity characteristic which is frequency-dependant,
>then it may well be that the receiving antenna feedline is cut to a
>particular calibrated length. Changing that length will introduce
>phase-error into the two VOR signals, and, indeed uncalibrate your VOR.
>Just guessing, I'm probably wrong.-
>Curt Reimer
Curt,
There are indeed some applications where coax lengths are critical to
an antenna system but there are no such requirements on VHF Comm,
VOR or ILS antennas on airplanes. If you were working on a 747 where
the feedline could be 100' long you might want to take some special
pains to locate the antenna closer to reduce line losses to to
overall length but in the size airplanes we're talking about,
about anything you want to do is fine.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
Rusty ,
Have your friend give us a call we can make him a set of seats(301)293-1505.
....George & Becki Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
Subject: | Re: Flaring Tool / RV6A tail light |
>F>I figure they will do at least a satisfactory job letting others see me from
>the rear and besides, how many planes can run an RV down from behind anyway!
>:)>>
>>
>>Rick in inhumanly cold Minnesota
>
I believe Boeing, Mc Donald-Douglas, Gulfstream, Etc., Etc. Have a few that
are capable of running up your tail......
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Becki Orndorff <rso(at)css.ncifcrf.gov> |
Rusty,
I am doing seats. Have your friend call me in the evening at (301)
293-1505. I can probably squeeze him in before SNF in the present schedule.
I'll be glad to send him samples in the colors he is interested in. Seats
start at $290 for an RV4 or RV6.
Becki Orndorff
>One of the guys in my hangar is about to first flight his 4 and has managed
>to put off comming up with seats for his bird. He wants to go to S&F and
>doesn't want to sit on the floor.
>
>Mine were done by D.J. Lauritzen and I like them, but I think she's busy and
>he doesn't want to wait that long. So he asked if I would see if anybody on
>the list has any other good sources. So I'm asking? (I told him to sit on
>an orange crate until D.J. could do them...)
>
>Regards:
>Rusty Gossard
>N47RG RV-4 Flying
>
>
Becki Orndorff
NCI-FCRDC, Computer & Statistical Services
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Wiring in wings |
B F,
I think you will find that you need 14 to 12 size wire for you landing lite,
18 for your nav lite and your stobes will need the shelded wire just for
strobes, Vans has a kit to do strobes. Remember to size your brakers right
the braker is to protect your wire .To large of a braker and to small of a
wire and your wire can fail.I you would to talk about this off line
call301-293-1505 in the evening...George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV6A tail light |
> B F: I initially was goingto put the nav lights under the tip lenses. Then
> I got to thinking, the lights are there for safety reasons and a light
> mounted under a lens is not as visible as one mounted on the tip, is most
> likely not legal and may or may not pass certification inspection. If you
> put the lights "uder glass", I'd check with your GADO or FSDO to see if they
> will approve this installation.
Bob,
Your point is well taken but our F33A has position and strobe lights
mounded under the wing tip lense (although the landing light
is not in there with them).
You stopping by here in April??
B F Gibbons
RV-6 (first wing)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
Subject: | Wire in the wings |
Allow me to officially close this thread.
Thanks to those who responded. Ok, Ok, I got lazy. I have a copy of
Standards and Practices and also have Tony's books. I just figured I'd
get a "order part number xxx from Aircraft Spruce" response. Instead
I got much better advice (as usual from the list): "here are some
sources","here's what I did", "your mileage may vary", and "you're a
homebuilder, look it up yourself". I stand before you a humbled
homebuilder.
B F Gibbons
RV-6 (first wing)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gene Gottschalk (286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov> |
Rusty,
Becki Orndorff does RV interiors. I don't know how busy she is, but she
does great work. Come on becki, speak up.
-Gene
>One of the guys in my hangar is about to first flight his 4 and has managed
>to put off comming up with seats for his bird. He wants to go to S&F and
>doesn't want to sit on the floor.
>
>Mine were done by D.J. Lauritzen and I like them, but I think she's busy and
>he doesn't want to wait that long. So he asked if I would see if anybody on
>the list has any other good sources. So I'm asking? (I told him to sit on
>an orange crate until D.J. could do them...)
>
>Regards:
>Rusty Gossard
>N47RG RV-4 Flying
>
>
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ^ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Gene Gottschalk |N| e-mail : geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov~
~ Goddard Space Flight Center |A| [128.183.166.137] ~
~ Code 540/505, Hughes STX |S| Telephone : (301) 286-0708 ~
~ Greenbelt, MD 20771 |A| FAX : (301) 286-0270 ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ^ ^ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
Subject: | Re: Update and Question |
Bob,
How do you get the tire on/off with this setup?
Dan Boudro RV-4
>
> Ken: Larry Vetterman sells a neat little gaget that fits through a modified
> axle nut into the hollow axle. You then place a small jack under the jack
> pad and away you go.
> Bob Skinner RV-6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | HowardRV(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Update and Question |
CLEVELAND TOOLS (515) 432-6794 E Mail--cat3tools(at)aol.com Sells a RV Axle
Jack Kit (Written up in past RVator) for $45.00. It looks like you modify
the axle nuts then you can use bottle or hydraulic jacks. Could carry the
adapter with you.
Howard Kidwell
howardrv(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | pilla(at)espinc.espinc.com (Michael Pilla) |
Subject: | Re: RV6A tail light |
> As far as the tail light. It's a pain. I cut a 1/8 thick piece of
> alunminum the shape (sort of) the rudder bottom receptical then cut a hole in
it
> the size of the light. Glassed that to the rudder bottom. Drilled and tapped
> it to accept the tail light. It's hard to explain but it looks good and it
> works.
Well, I mounted a combo position/strobe in my RV-4's rudder. I started out
with a 1/8" piece of aluminum, ..., but a Glassair (gasp :-) friend of mine
had asked for help in fabricating a mounting bracket for his oil cooler. I
fabricated one out of aluminum and he, in turn, took some scrap fiberglass
and epoxy sheets (two layers of glass/epoxy). We cut it to the rough shape
of the opening, then cut an opening in that for the light. Two nut plates
were then riveted to the glass "bulkhead" to "mount" the light. I then "tacked"
the "bulkhead" in place with some five-minute epoxy. Finally, a strip of
fiberglass cloth, soaked in epoxy, was placed through the light opening all
around the edge of the "bulkhead" and Van's fairing.
I have to admit, it worked out quite nicely, but, ugh! do I hate working
with that stuff. Give me our tin bending/smashing any day. :-)
Mike Pilla
pilla(at)espinc.com
RV-4 fuse out of jig, installing aft top deck and turtle deck
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
My hangermate just replaced the seats in his RV-4. They are ugly and quite
uncomfortable. We have been using his old ones for just about everything. If
your friend wants, I'll ask Adam if he would be willing to part with 'em.
Let me know.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
>Rusty,
> I am doing seats. Have your friend call me in the evening at (301)
>293-1505. I can probably squeeze him in before SNF in the present schedule.
>I'll be glad to send him samples in the colors he is interested in. Seats
>start at $290 for an RV4 or RV6.
> Becki Orndorff
>
>
>
Becki:
Thanks, I'm passing the info along.
Rusty
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | scottg(at)villagenet.com (scott gesele) |
Subject: | Re: IRC Chat On RV's |
>Scott... I'll be there, - we are talking "undernet" aren't we? - let me know
>
>Regards, Rob Lee
>
I will be loggin into irc.colorado.edu. This is an efnet server.
-Scott N506RV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
Subject: | Re: Flaring Tool / RV6A tail light |
Yup...it happebed in LA in the '70s. A B-737 swallowed a C-172 That's what
brought us the TCA (Class B). The more you look like a Boeing, the safer you are.
Chris
>
> >F>I figure they will do at least a satisfactory job letting others see me from
> >the rear and besides, how many planes can run an RV down from behind anyway!
> >:)>>
>
> >>
> >>Rick in inhumanly cold Minnesota
> >
> I believe Boeing, Mc Donald-Douglas, Gulfstream, Etc., Etc. Have a few that
> are capable of running up your tail......
>
> Regards:
> Rusty Gossard
> N47RG RV-4 Flying
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Christopher Krieg" <christopher_krieg(at)aoce.austin.apple.com> |
------ From: rv-list(at)matronics.com, Tue, Mar 5, 1996 ------
>> B F: I initially was goingto put the nav lights under the tip lenses.
Then
>> I got to thinking, the lights are there for safety reasons and a light
>> mounted under a lens is not as visible as one mounted on the tip, is most
>> likely not legal and may or may not pass certification inspection. If you
>> put the lights "uder glass", I'd check with your GADO or FSDO to see if
they
>> will approve this installation.
>Bob,
>Your point is well taken but our F33A has position and strobe lights
>mounded under the wing tip lense (although the landing light
>is not in there with them).
In all the Glasairs that we had certified (at the Glasair shop I used to work
for), they all had position lights mounted behind wingtip lenses. We never had
any trouble with the FAA.we never had any rear facing lights in the tips. The
Glasair has a mount location built into the rudder.
Chris Krieg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen) |
Subject: | Re: Was VOR Antennas-associated Question |
Curt, you wrote:
There might be another explaination: My VOR theory is a little rusty,
but don't they work by comparing the phase of a reference signal and a
radial position signal? If these signals are at different RF carrier
frequencies, and the RG-58 has a velocity characteristic which is
frequency-dependant, then it may well be that the receiving antenna
feedline is cut to a particular calibrated length. Changing that length
will introduce phase-error into the two VOR signals, and, indeed
uncalibrate your VOR.
Just guessing, I'm probably wrong.- Curt Reimer
_________________
Curt, when you see this I am sure you will remember learning it long
ago. Other than the fact that there are a number of different VHF VOR
frequencies (from different VOR stations); any particular station puts
out only one RF frequency. That is the only signal which comes down
your RG-58 coax from the antenna. One may ask then, how is it possible
to have a reference and a variable signal on the same frequency? (We
know that the receiver sees a reference and variable signal and by
comparing their phases is able to determine the VOR radial). This is
how: On the assigned RF VOR frequency there is AM modulated a 9960 Hz
"subcarrier" (usually referred to as the 10 KHz subcarrier). This
subcarrier is in turn FM modulated with a 30 Hz reference signal. From
the ground station that reference signal goes out with the same phase
in all directions. The ground transmitter however has four antenna
elements. One pair of elements uses a 30 Hz sine AM modulation and the
other pair uses a 30 Hz cosine AM modulation. As you know a sine and
cosine wave is the same except 90 degrees phase difference. The
sin/cos am modulation of the antenna elements causes a radiation
pattern (lobe) which rotates at a 30 Hz rate around the antenna. That
is the variable signal. As it rotates, it is exactly in-phase with the
reference signal when pointed north and exactly 180 degrees
out-of-phase when pointed south. There is a 90 phase relationship east
and west. You get the picture. The VOR receiver simply AM demodulates
this and sends it to the VOR head (converter). The VOR head, using
filters separates the 10 KHz subcarrier reference signal and the 30 Hz
variable signal. It then FM demodulates the 30 Hz reference signal
from the 10 KHz subcarrier. This results in the two 30 Hz signals
(reference and variable). The VOR head then shifts the phase of one of
the signals some more according to the OBS knob and finally compares
the resulting phase to drive the course deviation pointer. The exact
details of how this is done is not important.
Since this is one of the few things I happen to know about I thought I
would pass it along.
Peter B. Mortensen RV-4 builder of N number N21PE
__________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
Subject: | Wiring in wings (fwd) |
Two things. If you are refering to my msg on the AMP ratings I posted,
I specifically listed a type of light (ie 100 W Halogen). What I posted
is ACTUAL measured. I expect Tony's is covering a range of lights, most of
which RV's will not use. A 16 Guage wire is fine for a 15 ft run from fuselage
to the light in the wing for a 6 amp current.
As I said at the start of my msg, the wire size is based on distance and your
amp load. Each user must figure that out for the light or load they are using.
Also, your quoted amp rating for strobe lights is way under what 2 and 3 light
strobe systems pull. Whelen publishes 7 amps for the single power supply
version. A single strobe may use closer to what you show below but
I expect most will use the single power supply. The dual power supplies
are probably half that (3 to 4 amps).
>
> >I'm to the point where I'd like to order the wire to run through the
> >conduit in my wings. I'm not sure what gauge / type to order. I
> >want to run wire for 1) landing light; 2) position light; 3) strobe
> >light (power pack for strobe in the wing tip). Any advice?
> >
> >B F Gibbons
> >RV-6 (first wing)
>
> If you have Tony Bingelis' books, two of them (Sportplane Construction
> Techniques and especially Firewall Forward)have some very specific
> information regarding electrical loads for various equipment, breakers vs.
> fuses (suggests you can use heavier breakers than fuses in the certain wire
> sizes) wiring diagrams, etc. Interesting stuff to read and study.
>
> According to his figures, the following are required for your applications:
>
> Landing light - 8.4 to 15.6 amps - 14 AWG (radically disagrees w/ what was
> posted today)
> Position lights - 1.7 to 5.6 amps - 18 AWG
> Strobe lights - 2.0 to 4.0 amps - 18 AWG
>
> BTW, if you're using the Whelen system, I think the wiring package has most
> of the wire you need for your runs to the wingtips (could be wrong on this one).
>
> If you don't have Tony B's books, I'd highly recommend getting them.
>
> Bill
>
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
Subject: | Re: Update and Question |
>Bob,
>How do you get the tire on/off with this setup?
>Dan Boudro RV-4
>
>>
>> Ken: Larry Vetterman sells a neat little gaget that fits through a modified
>> axle nut into the hollow axle. You then place a small jack under the jack
>> pad and away you go.
>> Bob Skinner RV-6
Dan: You remove the screws on the bracket that holds the outboard screw for
the wheel pant and insert the shaft on the jack pad assembly into the hollow
axle. Then, you unscrew the modified axle nut onto the shaft along with the
wheel. You then lower the axle on some blocks of wood and then slide the
tire/wheel and axle nut off. It works well. Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
Subject: | Re: Strobe Power Pack (was Wiring in wings) |
> I also ran 16 guage to the strobe power supply under the seat.
>
> Herman
>
This brings up another topic. Builders around here have opted to put
individual strobe power supplies in each wing instead of one power pack
under the seat. The reason given is safety. The logic goes like this: IF
fuel leaks out of your tanks AND IF somehow a spark is generated by the high
output line from the strobe power pack then..... These builders are more
comfortable with running low output wire to the power supply in the wingtip.
Also, if one power supply goes out, you still have one strobe working.
Now.... going to the individual units will cost $360 total ($160 each) from
Chief and output 12 joules each. A single unit with 34 joules output will
cost $265 (18 joule each wing if simultaneous flash). The new comet flash
puts out 44 joules for each light alternating or 22 joules each simutaneous
and cost $285.
Power for the buck would say go with the comet flash. But... what about
this hypotetical safety issue. Also, is there a big real time difference
between the 12 joule, 34 joule and 44 joule??
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892
2300 Oakmont Way #205 Fax: 541-342-5492
Eugene, Oregon 97401 email: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE ) |
Fellow builders,
last night I back riveted the stiffeners to the rudder skin. On the
first stiffener I riveted, I used a little too much pressure and the
skin bulges out around the rivets slightly. It looks a little unsightly
but is structurally sound. The other stiffeners went on perfectly.
My question is--Can I drill out the rivets, reflatten the skin, and re
rivit the stiffener---or live with it? It's .016 skin, so I don't know
how much reworking I can do. It's not horrible, but noticeable on the
shinny skin.
TIA
Ed Cole N648RV (R'svd) RV6A
ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | One last point about wire sizes |
From: | Rudy Albachten <Rudy.Albachten(at)amd.com> |
I know this theme has already been over-discussed, but I wanted to add
one small point...
The circuit breaker is chosen to handle the load of the device, but will
always be more current than the device is expected to draw. The wire size
is chosen (by table, chart, etc.) to match the CIRCUIT BREAKER, not the
device.
For example:
If your nav lights draw 6amps and you use a 10amp breaker, your wiring
must be able to handle 10amps not 6amps. (Imagine some water causing a
partial short. The circuit breaker doesn't trip till 10amps.)
--
Rudy Albachten rudy.albachten(at)amd.com
Advanced Micro Devices 512/602-5118
Austin Texas
RV-6A: Finished HS skeleton, skins ready to rivet as soon as
Tony Bingelis inspects the skeleton. VS under construction.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Subject: | Re: Spring back dimple dies |
Suggestion: buy the fancy new dimple dies and grind an edge of the old
ones back a ways. Ground down dimple dies come in mighty handy for:
- Dimoling where you drilled too close to a bend
- Dimpling the rivet holes in nut plates that are to be used in
thinner material where you don't necessarily want to machine c-sink
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | crazer(at)midwest.net (Chester Razer) |
>Fellow builders,
>last night I back riveted the stiffeners to the rudder skin. On the
>first stiffener I riveted, I used a little too much pressure and the
>skin bulges out around the rivets slightly. It looks a little unsightly
>but is structurally sound. The other stiffeners went on perfectly.
>My question is--Can I drill out the rivets, reflatten the skin, and re
>rivit the stiffener---or live with it? It's .016 skin, so I don't know
>how much reworking I can do. It's not horrible, but noticeable on the
>shinny skin.
>TIA
>Ed Cole N648RV (R'svd) RV6A
>ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
Ed, I'd leave things the way they are. Don't drill out for cosmetic
reasons. Do drill out to improve a structural problem. Experience here is
definitely the best teacher.
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <Terryg(at)sceptrecal.ccmail.compuserve.com> |
Subject: | When To Order Wing Kit? |
Folks -- I'm now well into my HS, and as my skills improve, I find
that I'm picking up speed a little. I'm no where NEAR finishing, but
on the other hand, I now know it's NOT going to take forever.
Wanting to avoid any potential down time, I was wondering when others
have ordered their wing kit. After you finished the HS? HS and VS?
Ideally, the wing kit shows up the day you set the last rivet in the
empennage.
Any thoughts or comments would be very much appreciate.
Cheers...
Terry in Calgary
"Horizontal Stabilizer"
PS. In case you're wondering, my change in email address reflects a
decision to receive the RV-LIST at work, as opposed to home. I can
still be reached at the old address, as well, but the address at work
is terryg(at)sceptrecal.ccmail.compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
Reply to: Removable panel
Garry Corde you write...
I did mine on my computer and saved my work as a print file. I brought this
to a printing shop and had a full scale drawing printed....
--------------------
What application program did you use to draw the pannel? --Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Strobe Power Pack (was Wiring in wings) |
>This brings up another topic. Builders around here have opted to put
>individual strobe power supplies in each wing instead of one power pack
>under the seat. The reason given is safety. The logic goes like this: IF
>fuel leaks out of your tanks AND IF somehow a spark is generated by the high
>output line from the strobe power pack then..... These builders are more
>comfortable with running low output wire to the power supply in the wingtip.
>Also, if one power supply goes out, you still have one strobe working.
So why not shut the single source supply OFF when you smell the gas?
I preferr the KISS priciple....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dls(at)neptune.kpt.arl.psu.edu (Dan Shades) |
>Fellow builders,
>last night I back riveted the stiffeners to the rudder skin. On the
>first stiffener I riveted, I used a little too much pressure and the
>skin bulges out around the rivets slightly. It looks a little unsightly
>but is structurally sound. The other stiffeners went on perfectly.
>My question is--Can I drill out the rivets, reflatten the skin, and re
>rivit the stiffener---or live with it? It's .016 skin, so I don't know
>how much reworking I can do. It's not horrible, but noticeable on the
>shinny skin.
>TIA
>Ed Cole N648RV (R'svd) RV6A
>ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
>
>Ed,
I had to drill out a rivet on my rudder that I was not satisfied with. I
found it to be very painstaking work to remove the rivet without causing
further cosmetic damage to the skin. My opinion based on that experience is
either live with it or start over. It probably would not cost you much to
order new stiffiners and a skin. Also, trying to get rid of it by flattening
the skin will probably cause some small creases.
Good Luck,
Dan Shades RV-4 wing (phlogiston spar)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE ) |
Subject: | Re: When To Order Wing Kit? |
You wrote:
>
> Folks -- I'm now well into my HS, and as my skills improve, I
find
> that I'm picking up speed a little. I'm no where NEAR finishing,
but
> on the other hand, I now know it's NOT going to take forever.
>
> Wanting to avoid any potential down time, I was wondering when
others
> have ordered their wing kit. After you finished the HS? HS and
VS?
> Ideally, the wing kit shows up the day you set the last rivet in
the
> empennage.
>
> Any thoughts or comments would be very much appreciate.
>
> Cheers...
>
> Terry in Calgary
> "Horizontal Stabilizer"
Terry,
Fiqure at least 12 weeks to get the wing kit. Tail kit will take 250
hrs. or so?? Calculate your time spent per week and do the math.
I'm finishing the rudder with the elevators left to go, so I ordered
the wing kit mid. Feb. Van's first quote was delivery at the end of
March. The next time I checked, they said May???? Go figure.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
Subject: | Re: Strobe Power Pack (was Wiring in wings) |
Yes, legality. The 12 joule units are only legal on older
aircraft. They do no meet the newer specs. If you intend to
fly at night you will need to use the 20 joule unit(s).
Chris
>
> Power for the buck would say go with the comet flash. But... what about
> this hypotetical safety issue. Also, is there a big real time difference
> between the 12 joule, 34 joule and 44 joule??
> Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892
> 2300 Oakmont Way #205 Fax: 541-342-5492
> Eugene, Oregon 97401 email: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
>Fellow builders,
>last night I back riveted the stiffeners to the rudder skin. On the
>first stiffener I riveted, I used a little too much pressure and the
>skin bulges out around the rivets slightly. It looks a little unsightly
>but is structurally sound. The other stiffeners went on perfectly.
>My question is--Can I drill out the rivets, reflatten the skin, and re
>rivit the stiffener---or live with it? It's .016 skin, so I don't know
>how much reworking I can do. It's not horrible, but noticeable on the
>shinny skin.
>TIA
>Ed Cole N648RV (R'svd) RV6A
>ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
>
Ed: Chances are that the skin is stretched and I doubt that it would be
worth the risk to do anything with it. Imperfections show up the most on
bare aluminum and the "uh oh" won't be as noticable after painting, IMO.
Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
Subject: | Re: When To Order Wing Kit? |
>
> Wanting to avoid any potential down time, I was wondering when others
> have ordered their wing kit. After you finished the HS? HS and VS?
> Ideally, the wing kit shows up the day you set the last rivet in the
> empennage.
>
> Any thoughts or comments would be very much appreciate.
> Terry in Calgary
Terry: I'd opt for the safe route. It's frustrating to have to wait when
you're in the mood, so I'd make sure the wing kit is on hand. Besides,
sometimes it's nice to be able to work on something different while waiting
for primer to dry or while thinking out a problem or just plain being bored
with working on the tail. If you have to order a replacement part for a
tail part you can work on the wings while you wait for delivery.
Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
Subject: | Re: Strobe Power Pack (was Wiring in wings) |
>This brings up another topic. Builders around here have opted to put
>individual strobe power supplies in each wing instead of one power pack
>under the seat. The reason given is safety. The logic goes like this: IF
>fuel leaks out of your tanks AND IF somehow a spark is generated by the high
>output line from the strobe power pack then..... These builders are more
>comfortable with running low output wire to the power supply in the wingtip.
>Also, if one power supply goes out, you still have one strobe working.
>
>Now.... going to the individual units will cost $360 total ($160 each) from
>Chief and output 12 joules each. A single unit with 34 joules output will
>cost $265 (18 joule each wing if simultaneous flash). The new comet flash
>puts out 44 joules for each light alternating or 22 joules each simutaneous
>and cost $285.
>
>Power for the buck would say go with the comet flash. But... what about
>this hypotetical safety issue. Also, is there a big real time difference
>between the 12 joule, 34 joule and 44 joule??
>Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892
Ross: I've wondered about this as well. The comet flash seems like the
best bang for the buck and probably a weight savings. As far as the fuel
leak problem, I'd assume that a fuel leak would would not occur all of the
sudden and if it did occur, it would be fixed. Possibly routing a conduit
in the aft part of the wing well away from the tanks would be a good idea.
A fuel vapor/spark problem could occur with either the landing light or nav
light wiring as well. There is possible radio interference to worry about
as well with the single power unit located in the cockpit. Right?
Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: RV-6 Cabin heat |
> My oil temperature never got over 130 degrees, this with my cooler door
>completely closed. On the trip out (9 degrees), I blocked the inlet area
>with duct tape, reducing the inlet area by 1/2. On initial climb out, I
>thought that I would have to turn back and land as cylinder head temps
>approached 425 degrees. As soon as I leveled off, the temps dropped to
>350-375. On the trip back, without duct tape (15 degrees), the CHT's ran at
>250-275. I think I'll look into some cowl flaps before next winter. They
>should be a little easier to fit with only two pipes exiting the cowl. Does
>anyone have any ideas on using a MAC servo for activating the cowl flap as
>opposed to a linkage that would have to be disconnected. An electrical plug
>would be a little more convenient. Would the MAC servo stand up to the
>heat? Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6
>
Wow! Sounds like cowl flaps are almost a necessity for us fortunate
cold-region folks. You might look into quarter scale servos; (at finer hobby
shops everywhere) they put out quite a bit of torque. I don't think they're
as precise as the MAC, but for cowl flaps I bet they'd be fine. They're a
LOT cheaper.
Get this done in the next 2-3 months so you can do all the R&D for me, ok?
:)
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | lackerma(at)bigsean.rad.rpslmc.edu (lauren ackerman) |
It may be too late when you smell the gas.
laurens ackerman RV-6 into the wings
----- Begin Included Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | neptune.kpt.arl.psu.edu!dls(at)matronics.com (Dan Shades) |
>Fellow builders,
>last night I back riveted the stiffeners to the rudder skin. On the
>first stiffener I riveted, I used a little too much pressure and the
>skin bulges out around the rivets slightly. It looks a little unsightly
>but is structurally sound. The other stiffeners went on perfectly.
>My question is--Can I drill out the rivets, reflatten the skin, and re
>rivit the stiffener---or live with it? It's .016 skin, so I don't know
>how much reworking I can do. It's not horrible, but noticeable on the
>shinny skin.
>TIA
>Ed Cole N648RV (R'svd) RV6A
>ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
>
>Ed,
I had to drill out a rivet on my rudder that I was not satisfied with. I
found it to be very painstaking work to remove the rivet without causing
further cosmetic damage to the skin. My opinion based on that experience is
either live with it or start over. It probably would not cost you much to
order new stiffiners and a skin. Also, trying to get rid of it by flattening
the skin will probably cause some small creases.
Good Luck,
Dan Shades RV-4 wing (phlogiston spar)
----- End Included Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
If you have streched the skin, it won't ever go back. Removing rivets is
almost always guaranteed to make things worst. Things are a lot more visable
with shiny skin. If you are concerned, complete the part and then shoot it
with your primer and see what happens. If it still stands out, put the
part away and let it eat at you until you do what most of us do, dial Vans
and get new ones.
Bruce Patton
putting on tail
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "B F Gibbons" <bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com> |
Subject: | Re: When To Order Wing Kit? |
> Wanting to avoid any potential down time, I was wondering when others
> have ordered their wing kit. After you finished the HS? HS and VS?
> Ideally, the wing kit shows up the day you set the last rivet in the
> empennage.
Order it now.
B F Gibbons
RV-6 (first wing)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | jacking up your RV |
Temporarily turn the hose clamp that holds the wire that runs up the back of
your fairings so that the screw part is on the bottom side, re-tighten, and
use that as a jack pad. You'll have it every time you need it, including
trips!
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ross Rebgetz <Ross.Rebgetz(at)tvl.tcp.csiro.au> |
>Fellow builders,
>last night I back riveted the stiffeners to the rudder skin. On the
>first stiffener I riveted, I used a little too much pressure and the
>skin bulges out around the rivets slightly. It looks a little unsightly
>but is structurally sound. The other stiffeners went on perfectly.
>My question is--Can I drill out the rivets, reflatten the skin, and re
>rivit the stiffener---or live with it? It's .016 skin, so I don't know
>how much reworking I can do. It's not horrible, but noticeable on the
>shinny skin.
>TIA
>Ed Cole N648RV (R'svd) RV6A
>ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
>
Ed
I made two similar mistakes on my elevator. Most of the advice that I
received (including from Tom at Vans) was to leave it alone. I decided that
I was prepared to replace the skin immediately so tried some of the "fix-it"
advice. The only thing that reduced the rise a little was tapping it down
while holding a timber backing plate shaped to fit over the stiffener and
rivet shop head.
One of my raised heads was 0.02" and this was reduced to about 0.012" after
tapping it down.
I also drilled the whole stiffner out to see why the head was raised. Had
the rivet spread between the skin and stiffner or had I driven the skin and
stiffner out by not holding them down on the backing plate while riveting ?
I didn't damage the holes but the skin was stretched at the original raised
rivet hole and could oilcan after re riveting so I replaced the skin and
stiffners.
I decided to replace the skin because I had only spent 15 hrs on it to that
stage and did not want to spend another 25 hrs to complete the elevator and
then decide to redo it.
Regards
Ross
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phone: +61 077 538570 W
+61 077 753192 H
Fax : +61 077 538600 W
Email: Ross.Rebgetz(at)tvl.tcp.csiro.au
Mail : CSIRO
Davies Laboratory
Private Mail Bag
Aitkenvale Qld 4814
Australia
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen) |
Hi,
Does anyone know the dates of the Reno Air Races this year?
Thanks, Peter B. Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com
___________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | PAUL_ROSALES(at)prodigy.com (MR PAUL A ROSALES) |
Subject: | RE:When to order wing kit |
In response to when to order your wing kit, I agree with Ed Cole.
Plan on 12 weeks+ and there will be no surprises. By the way, my
tail section took ~210 hours: It's by far not perfect but it's all
mine! Happy Building!
Paul A. Rosales
RV-6A, N628PV
Starting leading edges (building both wings side by side)
Lancaster, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Update and Question |
Ken,
You might ry your local friendly FBO. I did and was surprised when he said
sure, ok to use his tall jacks. A hardware bolt in the tie down hole, jack
up one and do your thing, then the other. It sure was cheap. Maybe our FBO
is just very friendly. Benefits of a small airport.
John D
My question is; how do you jack up the plane to change tires after the wheel
>pants and gear fairings are on? I understand taking off the wheel pants,
>but the leg fairings I will be using are not removeable and puting a pipe
>into the center of the axle will work for the removal process but not the
>reinstall and adjusting of the axle nut.
>Ken Gray
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: RV6A tail light |
If you are talking about Vans leading edge plastic lens cover, then it will
pass the >requirements< of the FAA. It has to do with the angular from
ahead to the side. If your inspector doesn't pass it, then you are in deep
stuff. No telling what else he has a personnal vendetta against.
The main thing, the reuirement for the tip lights to show behind the
aitcraft is only a few degrees. If you notice, the whelans etc normally
have an opaque cover there. It may be against the reg to show the red or
blue over x degrees to the read of abeam.
John D
>
>B F: I initially was goingto put the nav lights under the tip lenses. Then
>I got to thinking, the lights are there for safety reasons and a light
>mounted under a lens is not as visible as one mounted on the tip, is most
>likely not legal and may or may not pass certification inspection. If you
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Rusty,
For a temporary solution, get one sheet of house styrofoam insulation. You
can cut it to fit easy, it's light, it's almost comfortable, and after he
gets his final seats, the styro is ideal for heigth adjustments for kids in
Young Eagle etc. Mine is 3/4 inch, and a piece of tape will keep them together.
John D
>Regards:
>Rusty Gossard
>N47RG RV-4 Flying
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
Subject: | Re: When To Order Wing Kit? |
If you've done enought of the wing kit to decide you want to build a RV
order the wing kit.
Dan Boudro RV-4
On 5 Mar 1996 sceptrecal.ccmail.compuserve.com!Terryg(at)matronics.com wrote:
> Folks -- I'm now well into my HS, and as my skills improve, I find
> that I'm picking up speed a little. I'm no where NEAR finishing, but
> on the other hand, I now know it's NOT going to take forever.
>
> Wanting to avoid any potential down time, I was wondering when others
> have ordered their wing kit. After you finished the HS? HS and VS?
> Ideally, the wing kit shows up the day you set the last rivet in the
> empennage.
>
> Any thoughts or comments would be very much appreciate.
>
> Cheers...
>
> Terry in Calgary
> "Horizontal Stabilizer"
>
> PS. In case you're wondering, my change in email address reflects a
> decision to receive the RV-LIST at work, as opposed to home. I can
> still be reached at the old address, as well, but the address at work
> is terryg(at)sceptrecal.ccmail.compuserve.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Ed,
If you are like me, you will live with it. Remember if you go back and try
to reflatten the skin, what you are actually doing is 'working' the skin and
may well end up with a larger 'blister'. As you work along, you will find
that some things like this are more acceptable than the results of an
attempted cure. This is one of the voices of experience coming through. :-)
If I had repurchased skin etc for all of my boo boos like this, I would have
about 75,000 in it and wouldn't be finished yet!
Finishing with sandable primer and a decent paint job covers alot of this
stuff. Remember, you actually 'scuff up' the skin to prime it.
John D
>My question is--Can I drill out the rivets, reflatten the skin, and re
>rivit the stiffener---or live with it? It's .016 skin, so I don't know
>how much reworking I can do. It's not horrible, but noticeable on the
>shinny skin.
>TIA
>Ed Cole N648RV (R'svd) RV6A
>ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
IMHO I'd live with it, it's suprising how all these horrors vanish on a
finished, painted AC.
Dan RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque
On Tue, 5 Mar 1996, EDWARD COLE wrote:
> Fellow builders,
> last night I back riveted the stiffeners to the rudder skin. On the
> first stiffener I riveted, I used a little too much pressure and the
> skin bulges out around the rivets slightly. It looks a little unsightly
> but is structurally sound. The other stiffeners went on perfectly.
> My question is--Can I drill out the rivets, reflatten the skin, and re
> rivit the stiffener---or live with it? It's .016 skin, so I don't know
> how much reworking I can do. It's not horrible, but noticeable on the
> shinny skin.
> TIA
> Ed Cole N648RV (R'svd) RV6A
> ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Becki Orndorff <rso(at)css.ncifcrf.gov> |
Subject: | RV Forum - EAA Chapter 524 |
I hope you all don't mind if I post this. I hope to get the information to
the builders in Canada as the post office returned all the fliers sent to
Canada - some rule about everything being in an envelope. This is the text
of the flyer.
EAA CHAPTER 524 RV FORUM
You are cordially invited to attend EAA Chapter 524's seventh RV Forum to be
held on Friday and Saturday, April 12 & 13, 1996. The RV Forum will be held
at the Frederick Community College Aviation Technology Hanger, which is
south of the main parking lot at Frederick Airport (FDK), Frederick, Maryland.
We are planning two full days of programs including presentations, exhibits,
practical hands-on workshops, and tours of local RV builder's shops.
Emphasis will be on the RV-3, RV-4, and RV-6(A) aircraft and on construction
techniques applicable to most aluminum monocoque aircraft.
This year awards will be presented for the best RV-3, RV-4, RV-6 and RV-6A.
There will be plenty of time for hanger talk before, during and after the forum.
The registration fee includes a catered lunch each day. A banquet will be
held on Friday night at an additional cost. Please send your registration
form no later than March 15, 1996. Forum schedules will be mailed in March.
Requests for refunds will be honored if received prior to March 29, 1996.
Advance registration is discounted and preferred. Check in and registration
at the door will start April 11, 1996 at 7:00 p.m.
Special programs will be available for your spouse or guest.
If you have any questions, please feel free to call David Liston at
301-831-3008 or Jerry Blake at 301-416-0491.
LODGING: Days Inn and Comfort Inn in Frederick will offer rooms at special
rates for the forum. For reservations, please contact Days Inn at
301-694-6600 or Comfort Inn at 301-695-6200. Mention you are attending the
EAA RV FORUM.
GROUND TRANSPORTATION: The Days Inn and Comfort Inn can provide free
transportation between the hotel and airport. Make sure you ask for this
service when making your hotel reservation. Rental cars are available
through Alamo (800)327-9633, Budget (800)527-0700, Enterprise (800)325-8007,
Hertz (800)654-3131, Rent-A-Honda (301)662-8888, Sears (800)527-0770.
FREDERICK AIRPORT INFO: If you bring your own tie downs, space is available
at no charge in front of the Aviation Technology Hanger. Fuel may be
obtained from Frederick Aviation (123.0) or Control Aero. Use a right hand
pattern for runway 5 or 12; left hand pattern for runway 23 or 30. Runway
1/19 is closed. UNICOM is 123.0, VOR is 109.0 and AWOS is 124.875. Contact
the FSS for the most current airport information.
COMMERCIAL FLIGHTS: Use either Washington-Dulles International or
Baltimore-Washington International airports.
TELEPHONE: Emergency messages can be taken for attendees at 301-846-2532.
COSTS:
Forum and lunch per attendee:
Pre-registered: $35 for one day
$45 for both days
At the door: $45 for one day
$55 for both days
Friday Banquet: $15 per person plus cash bar
REGISTRATION:
Name_________________________________________
Address______________________________________
City_________________________________________
State/Country/Zip____________________________
Phone (day)______________ (evening)__________
Days Attending Friday____ Saturday ____
Fees: Forum ($35 one day, $45 both) _______
Banquet ($15) _______
Total _______
Are you willing to give rides in your RV? (fuel
provided by the RV FORUM ______________________
Please return this form with your check or money
order made payable to EAA Chapter 524 to:
EAA CHAPTER 524 - RV FORUM
6706 Old Stonehouse Lane
New Market, MD 21774
Becki Orndorff
NCI-FCRDC, Computer & Statistical Services
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | James Kelley <72466.1355(at)compuserve.com> |
Subject: | How much primer? |
How much primer does it take to cover the inside of an RV6? Not a joke! I am
using the Sherwin Williams wash primer and wondering about how much I can expect
to purchase. So far I have used about two gal of reducer and a little over a
gal of primer and have a lot more building to go. I know I have wasted some of
the first gal just getting the feel of how it covers. Does anyone have a
rought guess as to how much they used in their project from start to finish?
Thanks in advance.
James Kelley (Main Spars ready to rivet!)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | scottg(at)villagenet.com (scott gesele) |
Subject: | Re: When To Order Wing Kit? |
Ordered my wing kit the day I ordered the emp kit. The pre-built spar took
an extra six weeks to get (Spring/Summer '93). I did not regret this
descision. I find it better to have an inventoried, stored wing kit
collecting dust in the shop compared to to all my tools. I don't know about
you, but my pace picks up when the warm weather comes. Guess it is some
soft of motivational factor :)
My suggestion is to order the wing kit NOW. Also, I planned on having each
kit arrive one month prior to the date it was needed. Parts do get
back-ordered. I was one of the unlucky builders hit by the "Great Rod-End
Bearing Shortage of 1993). I lost three weeks on the Emp due to this :(
Hope this helps.
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | James Kelley <72466.1355(at)compuserve.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV-6 Cabin heat |
> My oil temperature never got over 130 degrees, this with my cooler door
>completely closed. On the trip out (9 degrees), I blocked the inlet area
>with duct tape, reducing the inlet area by 1/2. On initial climb out, I
>thought that I would have to turn back and land as cylinder head temps
>approached 425 degrees. As soon as I leveled off, the temps dropped to
>350-375. On the trip back, without duct tape (15 degrees), the CHT's ran at
>250-275. I think I'll look into some cowl flaps before next winter. They
>should be a little easier to fit with only two pipes exiting the cowl. Does
>anyone have any ideas on using a MAC servo for activating the cowl flap as
>opposed to a linkage that would have to be disconnected. An electrical plug
>would be a little more convenient. Would the MAC servo stand up to the
>heat? Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6
>
Can't remember the exacts, but I flew a Lancair (please forgive) that had
automatic cowl flaps. The owner told me they were made from parts of a Porche.
The device was a bi-metal coil that would expand or contract with temp opening
and closing the cowl flap. This method looked real simple, can't say how it
worked temp wise, but on taxi in the summer they were fully open and at altitude
closed about half.
James Kelley (main spars ready to rivet.)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: When To Order Wing Kit? |
> Wanting to avoid any potential down time, I was wondering when others
> have ordered their wing kit. After you finished the HS? HS and VS?
> Ideally, the wing kit shows up the day you set the last rivet in the
> empennage.
The first thing you need to do is contact Van's for lead time on the wing
kit. It can range from in stock to 3 months, and then you can figure out
whether you needed to order it yesterday...
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Radio wiring MX-11 |
>Bart at GCA also sent me an illust. of the phone & mike jacks. It includes
>a fiber washer with a shoulder on it. It goes in the hole that you drill to
>install the jacks, the shoulder actually fits in the hole and then the jack
>goes through the washer, then there is a flat fiber washer on the other
>side. What this does is insulat , from sides and in the hole, the jack stem
>from the panel it's mounted through. The diagram shows the mike as a must,
>but Bart suggested that both be done this way. This may have been the cause
I think this depends on the intercom you're using. I'm using a Flightcom
403, and it shows the mike jack being insulated this way. They don't include
the jacks or the plastic washers of course. I just used a rubber grommet of
the appropriate size and it works fine. According to my intercom shematic
the headphone jacks are all supposed to be grounded at the barrel, so I'll
just mount them directly into the panel.
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gene Gottschalk (286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov> |
Subject: | Re: Removable panel |
All,
If anyone has an AutoCAD drawing of their panel (or any other piece) you
want plotted full size for fabrication, I can plot it. I have a "D" size
plotter (24"x36"). It's not quite large enough for the full panel on one
sheet, but it can be split along the centerline.
-Gene, RV6a, finally started the firewall!
============================================================================
=========
> Reply to: Removable panel
>
>Garry Corde you write...
>I did mine on my computer and saved my work as a print file. I brought this
>to a printing shop and had a full scale drawing printed....
>--------------------
>What application program did you use to draw the pannel? --Elon
>
>
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ^ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Gene Gottschalk |N| e-mail : geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov~
~ Goddard Space Flight Center |A| [128.183.166.137] ~
~ Code 540/505, Hughes STX |S| Telephone : (301) 286-0708 ~
~ Greenbelt, MD 20771 |A| FAX : (301) 286-0270 ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ^ ^ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
Subject: | Re: WTB: Rivet Squeezer & Quest |
Hey Guys,
I'm kind of a newbie at all of this, I'm finishing my @#$%# elevator trim
tab, again. I'm trying to do this on the cheap if that at all exists in the
homebuilt world. I feel pretty comfortable with the rivet gun and am
wondering why I want a rivet squeezer in the first place. Does this do some
things that a 3x gun will not? Are there places that I can't use a gun/bar
but can use the squeezer?
I hear some of the big boys in the chapter talking with a gleam in their eye
about their Avery squeezers and I just figure I have not run into the right
assembly that will make me long for squeezer ownership. Besides, the wife
was just saying that there has not been a single tool delivered to the front
door in almost a month and I would'nt want the UPS guy to forget where I
live. So could someone shed a little light my way as to why they use a
squeezer instead of a gun.
Eric Henson
A wing by spring!
>Whether you get a pneumatic or hand squeezer, you're probably going to
>end up wanting more than one yoke. The larger deeper throat is handy
>for a lot of stuff but for getting into tight spots, you'll need a
>shallow one because those have smaller "noses" and can get in tighter.
>Yes I recommend the Avery if you get a hand squeezer. I have a Tatco
>with 2 yokes that are useless on my Pneumatic which I eventually broke
>down and bought. The deeper Avery yokes also don't have as much problem
>with bending rivets since they're much beefier than the tatco yokes so
>they don't flex as much.
>I've found it's nice to have more than one squeezer since it saves
>having to change dies (and yokes!) so much.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Removable panel |
I used what I had, Lotus Freelance for Windows. Once I loaded the driver for
the printer at the printing shop (they gave me a copy on disk) I was able to
scale everything. It worked out perfectly. I'm sure that thier are drafting
programs that would work better but I had this and knew how to use it well.
It was awesome to watch the template printout and then see the pannel in the
aircraft. It could not have been any easyer.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
REGARDING Cowl Flaps
I don't see a big issue of electric vs. mechanical linkage for the cowl flaps.
An electric plug will most likely be safety wired and the mechanical device
will have a cotter key. Other than making the linkage, the ease-of-disconnect
will be irrelevant compared to the cost.
However, if you really wanted to reduce pilot work load (but increase
complexity and cost) develop an AUTOMATIC system. Run a thermocouple from
the hottest cylinder to a controller (with or without active feedback) and
drive an electric cowl flap motor. Viola! you not have steady-state
cylinder head temps, reduced work load and longer engine life. You also have
complexity, failure points, and increased cost.
I'm no EE but the easiest way to do it would be "open-loop" with a stepper
motor. You would have to experiment (fly) different scenarios to collect data
for a look-up table with different OAT, MP, and CT vs. cowl flap positions,
and then burn in a PROM. I don't know how to solve the altitude problem (less
mass flow = less heat conductivity) but someone else will. So is some brave
soul going to experiment for all of us to create a fail-safe, low cost, and
light weight device? -Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Steve Day" <sday(at)pharmcomp.com> |
Subject: | Re: WTB: Rivet Squeezer & Quest |
>I'm kind of a newbie at all of this, I'm finishing my @#$%# elevator trim
>tab, again. I'm trying to do this on the cheap if that at all exists in the
>homebuilt world. I feel pretty comfortable with the rivet gun and am
>wondering why I want a rivet squeezer in the first place. Does this do some
>things that a 3x gun will not? Are there places that I can't use a gun/bar
>but can use the squeezer?
Eeeeek. I think my rv would look like a block of swiss cheese if I didn't
have a squeezer. I've found that the pneumatic battering ram doesn't work
well in some spots that you can't get the bucking bar in real good. Even if
you can get the bucking bar in, I prefer to use the squeezer whenever
possible. My order of preference for tools is:
C tool - makes absolutely perfect shop ends
Squeezer - hard to make mistakes on the surface, but possible to bend the
shop end over
Rivet gun - Have to use when the other tools won't get to the rivet.
Just my opinion :-)
-Steve Day
sday(at)pharmcomp.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
REGARDING Reno Air Races
The 2nd week in September 9-15. Make your reseravtions ASAP because the
entire town fills-up fast. There is an 800 number for RENO information (but
don't know it). The Hilton is 800/648-5080. The best time is mid-week
because you can mingle (on the line and in the hangers) with all of the racers
thrashing to make time trials. On race days your are hearded (and excluded)
with all the rest of the crowd. The following week is a Grand Prix race (the
reason the air races were moved up a week). -Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dls(at)neptune.kpt.arl.psu.edu (Dan Shades) |
Subject: | Re: WTB: Rivet Squeezer & Quest |
Eric,
I think you can get along without a squeezer just fine if you are trying to
save a buck. I am building a -4 on the cheap and I save ALOT of money
making my own tools, including a dimple machine that has a jack type handle
on it so you do not have to beat on it. If you got the money there are alot
of nice tools out there but if you have the time you can make your own tools
that do just as good of job and you can use a little imagination in the
process. (I built my dimple machine for $25)
Dan Shades RV-4 wing>
>
>
>
>
>Hey Guys,
>
>I'm kind of a newbie at all of this, I'm finishing my @#$%# elevator trim
>tab, again. I'm trying to do this on the cheap if that at all exists in the
>homebuilt world. I feel pretty comfortable with the rivet gun and am
>wondering why I want a rivet squeezer in the first place. Does this do some
>things that a 3x gun will not? Are there places that I can't use a gun/bar
>but can use the squeezer?
>
>I hear some of the big boys in the chapter talking with a gleam in their eye
>about their Avery squeezers and I just figure I have not run into the right
>assembly that will make me long for squeezer ownership. Besides, the wife
>was just saying that there has not been a single tool delivered to the front
>door in almost a month and I would'nt want the UPS guy to forget where I
>live. So could someone shed a little light my way as to why they use a
>squeezer instead of a gun.
>
>Eric Henson
>A wing by spring!
>
>
>
>>Whether you get a pneumatic or hand squeezer, you're probably going to
>>end up wanting more than one yoke. The larger deeper throat is handy
>>for a lot of stuff but for getting into tight spots, you'll need a
>>shallow one because those have smaller "noses" and can get in tighter.
>
>>Yes I recommend the Avery if you get a hand squeezer. I have a Tatco
>>with 2 yokes that are useless on my Pneumatic which I eventually broke
>>down and bought. The deeper Avery yokes also don't have as much problem
>>with bending rivets since they're much beefier than the tatco yokes so
>>they don't flex as much.
>
>>I've found it's nice to have more than one squeezer since it saves
>>having to change dies (and yokes!) so much.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Gene Gottschalk (286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov> |
Subject: | Re: WTB: Rivet Squeezer & Quest |
>I'm kind of a newbie at all of this, I'm finishing my @#$%# elevator trim
>tab, again.
What, only twice?
I'm trying to do this on the cheap if that at all exists in the
>homebuilt world. I feel pretty comfortable with the rivet gun and am
>wondering why I want a rivet squeezer in the first place. Does this do some
>things that a 3x gun will not? Are there places that I can't use a gun/bar
>but can use the squeezer?
I guess you can use the rivet gun for most anything you could use the
squeezer for. However, a couple of billion more rivets and you'll get tired
of hearing the gun bang. In some locations (although none come to mind
immediately) the gun may be a little too much force on the 3/32 rivets in
the thinner skins. Later on you may start looking for the easy way out. I
picked up a pneumatic squeezer at S&F last year and am now wondering what
level of insanity caused me to wait that long. The squeezer seems faster
than the gun and the pneumatic squeezer is another level of magnitude faster
(not really, but seems that way). I think you get consistently better rivet
set as well.
Good luck
Gene, RV6A, started firewall
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ^ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Gene Gottschalk |N| e-mail : geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov~
~ Goddard Space Flight Center |A| [128.183.166.137] ~
~ Code 540/505, Hughes STX |S| Telephone : (301) 286-0708 ~
~ Greenbelt, MD 20771 |A| FAX : (301) 286-0270 ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ^ ^ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | frankv(at)pec.co.nz |
Subject: | RV-4 crash in NZ |
Sad news guys.
On the TV news last night I saw an item on a homebuilt crash at
Ardmore airfield. I recognised the plane as Gary Spicer's beautiful
red RV-4. The commentary said that he'd had a engine failure shortly
after takeoff. Both occupants were taken to hospital, but fortunately
their injuries aren't life-threatening.
On the radio news this morning was an item which referred to a "recent
light aircraft crash" (I'm not sure whether this was Gary's RV or
not). The news item cautioned pilots in NZ to not use the new 96
unleaded mogas (previously our 96 mogas was leaded). The item stated
that the unleaded fuel had caused the aircraft's fuel seals to fail.
(I can't quite understand using mogas in a plane in NZ; 100LL Avgas
costs 91c/litre and 96 mogas costs 94c/litre (mostly due to taxes).
Frank.
February 27, 1996 - March 06, 1996
RV-Archive.digest.vol-bd