RV-Archive.digest.vol-bi
April 16, 1996 - April 29, 1996
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen ) |
Is there anybody out there who owns the Henrob welding system?
Recommended? It's at sale at Sun'n'Fun for $700 complete kit with
bottles, regulators, hose, Henrob torch, video and some rods.
Looks like I have some welding to do on my old RV3 kit: engine mount,
fuselage tank, tail spring mount, flap brackets, etc.
Finn
finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: optionalspAr flange stripps |
>My question is all the work of tapering the flange stripps on the spar
>worth a 3lb weight savings? Any options are greatly appreciated.
>thanks in advance
>Jack Wigmore
>Eugene, Oregon
>
>
Jack,
I don't know if you will notice 3 lbs but you can carry 3 more pounds if you
loose the weight in the flange strips. It only took me two hours to taper
the flange strips on my table saw using a carbide tipped blade. I fabricated
a simple fixture to hold the strips at the proper angle while being pushed
through the blade. The 0.125" strips were the hardest to deal with, only
because they were so long in length and I was working alone. Its not hard to
do and the spar looks better IMHO.
Gary Zilik
RV-6A Wings almost complete, Building a Bigger RV factory at the moment.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dick Slavens <aero(at)napanet.net> |
| Subject: | [Fwd: ] Bondo Repair |
From: BumperM(at)aol.com
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 23:45:32 -0400
y stick?]
>>I have a mild dent in my HS where I messed up on a rivet.
>>>I have noticed suggestions to fill such a problem area with BONDO.
>>>My question is, given that I prep the area properly (by sanding with
>>a fine grit) and clean it thoroughly, will BONDO really stick ok?
Dick, you may want to post this to the RV-list re: "The Bondo Question". My
understanding is that Bondo is polyester resin based which is much cheaper
than epoxy resin and does not adhere as well. It is also relatively heavy,
although this is normally irrelevent with the amount normally used to fill
small dings.
A much stronger bond and lighter fill material can be had by mixing epoxy
resin with glass micro-bubbles or other light weight filler. The glass
bubbles are mixed into the epoxy to form a light thick filler putty. Once dry
it is easily sanded and shaped. These materials can be obtained at almost any
boating supply store.
Bondo belongs on clunkers and cars!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Baines <bill(at)sfu.ca> |
| Subject: | Tanks and Landing Lights |
Two things:
1) has anybody on the list done enough night flying in a taildragger RV to
comment on landing lights? I have purchase 1 DUCWORKS Kit and am pondering a
2nd. Questions are:
- 1 light or 2
- taxi lights?
- recommended initial angles (vs wing chord?) for landing and taxi
lights
- Watts? Is the halogen assy Don supplies bright enough/ focused
enough/too much.
2) Getting ready to rivit the first tank -- any good way to scoop or wipe
Pro-Seal out of the dimple before inserting the rivet. I am told (and have
seen) rivets push out and up during bucking if Pro-Seal is left in the dimple.
BTW, on my first tank it looks like I will have to trim about 1/4 inch off
the bottom edge. Have others noticed this?
As always, comments appreciated.
Bill...
RV-4, Both wings in Jigs, all skins drilled, Running out of clecos, Left
tank alost ready to goop.
--
Bill Baines bill(at)sfu.ca
Home/Bus: 604-535-2709 | VE7FML
Fax/Job: 604-533-0618 |
Pager: 604-680-9072 |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Warped Wing Tip |
>This is a chance for you "glass" junkies to gain a new respect from this
>>group,... well at least from me anyway...HELP!
>>
>>-- Rich, RV4
>Rich,
>
>I think a lot of the wingtips are not quite right. I also had one that
>fitted nicely and one that was horrible. I dealt with the problem by sawing
>through the join between the top and bottom of the tip until I could get a
>fit with the wing and have a nice flat top surface. I then tacked this in
>place with some bits of resin, removed the tip, glassed the inside to make
>it strong again and then filled the outside bits with resin and
>microballoons and sanded it, then filled it and sanded it , then filled it
>and sanded it , then filled it and ....... you get the picture.
>
>worked OK but quite a lot of work.
>
>Leo Davies 6A
>
Rich, I agree with Leos' method, or a dirivitive. The main thing to me was
to keep the top of the tip flat. Leos' method, or in my case, I added to the
botton edge where it fits the wing skin. Laminated some extra 'stuff' on
the tip, cut it to fit smoothly, and continued on from there. Had I pulled
mine down, the top would not have been straight in line with the top of the
wing skin. I didn't want a drooped tip RV. Leo is absolutely right, much
work, but what 'plastic' work isn't? Cowling scoop? Wheel pant fairings?
Canopy front fairing? ETC ETC ETC. Sure glad there wasn't more 'plastic'.
I occasionally look at my Rutan Longeze practice kit book on the shelf and
thank God I left it on the shelf and never started THAT job.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
>Is there anybody out there who owns the Henrob welding system?
>Recommended? It's at sale at Sun'n'Fun for $700 complete kit with
>bottles, regulators, hose, Henrob torch, video and some rods.
>Finn
>finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com
>
Finn, I don't, but a good friend here does. He has been welding for 55
years, says it is great.
Hint, he could have saved much money had he bought it from one of the retail
suppliers rather than direct from the manufacturer. You maybe should shop
around a little and confirm.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Break In |
>Rusty:
>
>I disagree. Auto racing engines have much the same tolerances as
>passenger car engines, and are also generally liquid-cooled, yet the
>break-in procedure is essentially the same as for aircraft engines
>(cycles of high MEP followed by cooling periods).
>
>Tedd McHenry
>Edmonton, Canada
>
Ted:
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I haven't seen too many auto
engines with nitride or cermi barrel treatments. You also set ring endgap
loose on aircooled vs. water cooled and there are many other differences.
I built auto racing engine for 10 years. Some are built loose intentionally
as you don't expect them to run for 2000 hours. Piston fit, ring location,
ring composition, ring width, the use of buttons on the pistons,(I could go
on and on) all make differences. The bottom line is that lycoming has a
fairly good handle on how to break in their engine and it seems to have
worked for me over the past 30 years so I'll do it their way.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Dimpling Stretching Drill Holes |
SceptreCal.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM!Terryg(at)matronics.com writes:
> For dimpling, does it make sense to
> drill significantly undersized so they "stretch" to the right
> dimension? (You'd also to have an undersize dimple die, of course.)
Terry, Somewhere in an old RVavtor I believe is a note that #41 is more
suitable for a hole that will be dimpled, because the finished hole will be
tighter. And, your standard 3/32 dimple die pilot will work just fine. Of
course there is supposed to be some space for the rivet to expand when its
driven e.g. 3/32 (093) rivet in a #40 (098) hole. So, a dimpled #41should be
just about right for a 3/32 rivet after the hole stretches.
I think this might only be good practice for thin material since thicker
metal will not stretch as much. This is particularly true if you use a
dimple die with a nail used as a pilot. If the nail is too small, radial
cracks will appear around the hole since the metal is stretched too much.
I think its a good idea to do some trial dimpling on a piece of scrap and
look at the results with a magnifying glass to assure you are not asking the
metal to do something out of its limits. This same philosophy will serve you
well when drilling or countersinking plexiglass. Work out the bugs on a
piece of scrap.
Jim Stugart
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-LIST: Priming fuel tanks |
Van's instructions say to leave the interior of the fuel tanks BARE. Mal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: optionalspAr flange stripps |
any time you can save weight is worth it , a pound here and there does make a
big difference. if you would like to talk more about this write or call me at
301 293-1505
....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | vern(at)ldd.net (Vern Lemasters) |
| Subject: | Re: optionalspAr flange stripps |
>>My question is all the work of tapering the flange stripps on the spar
>>worth a 3lb weight savings? Any options are greatly appreciated.
>>thanks in advance
>>Jack Wigmore
>>Eugene, Oregon
>>
>Jack,
>
>I didn't for two reasons.
>
>Considering the moment of the additional weight and the fact that the
>flanges are not visible, I didn't feel it was worth the work. Although,
>weight is very important and the little weight gains can really add up.
>
>And, my bandsaw is not that great. It is very important that the flanges be
>smooth. I was worried about imperfections that may remain after cutting and
>filing. I felt it was safer to leave the flanges with extra material and I
>did a major edge smoothing (fine file and scotch-brite duburring wheel) with
>room to spare.
>
>Boris
>smbr(at)inetw.net
>
>
>
I DID IT FOR THE WEIGHT SAVINGS AND ALSO FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND IT MAKES THE
SPAR STRONGER BY NOT FOCUSING ANY BENDING MOMENT AT THE END OF THE THICKER
STRIPS. IT MAKES THE WHOLE SPAR FLEX A LITTLE BIT INSTEAD OF MAKING STRESS
RISERS AT THE ENDS OF THE UN-TAPERED STRIPS. I AM NOT SURE BUT I THINK I
READ THIS SOMEPLACE, HOWEVER YOU SHOULD TAKE IT AS JUST MY OPINION.
VERN LEMASTERS
VERN(at)LDD.NET
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
no do not prime the inside the gas may react with the paint ..george orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
Unless you are a good welder, I would not spend $700.00 on this
for this small amount of welding.
You can get someone local to do the welding. We have someone here
at one of the machine shops that is an expert welder who will weld up
these kind of parts.
The other option would be to purchase these parts from Van's. I think
all the new kits come with these parts pre-fab (unlike the old RV3 kits
that were just a box of material.
You could probably buy all these parts for 700 and have 'factory' parts.
Also, I don't think you want to use this type of gas torch on welding
an Aluminum fuel tank. I would prefer TIG.
Herman
>
> Is there anybody out there who owns the Henrob welding system?
> Recommended? It's at sale at Sun'n'Fun for $700 complete kit with
> bottles, regulators, hose, Henrob torch, video and some rods.
>
> Looks like I have some welding to do on my old RV3 kit: engine mount,
> fuselage tank, tail spring mount, flap brackets, etc.
>
> Finn
> finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com
>
>
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimpling Stretching Drill Holes |
Text item:
> 'Listers -- my curiosity has been piqued by Gil's fuse drilling
> response (excellent as always, Gil) and the fact that he recommended
> #41 drills as opposed to #40. I've noticed that with the #40 holes
> that I've drilled in the HS, once they're dimpled, there is a fair
> amount of slop between an (unset) 3/32" rivet and the hole itself.
> I'm assuming that this is normal. For dimpling, does it make sense to
> drill significantly undersized so they "stretch" to the right
> dimension? (You'd also to have an undersize dimple die, of course.)
> Or do you simply assume that the setting process will expand the shank
> of the rivet such that it basically "fills in" the rivet hole?
>
> If I go home and read in the Justice instructions that everything is
> supposed to be drilled #41 if you intend to dimple, I'm going to
> personally kick my own a** around the block for not reading them!
Sorry, Terry; wear soft shoes! Actually this is not a big deal. Yes, the rivets
will expand to fill the holes, so the strength of the joint is an almost
insignificant issue. The real reason for using the smaller drill is that
riveting will go better if you do. You know by now that if you use a rivet that
is too long there is a good chance it will fold over and be subject to cracking,
and if it is too short it will not form a large enough shop head to hold
permanently. If the hole is too large, especially if you are stacking three
pieces together, you will have to use a rivet that is too long in order to get
a
reasonable-sized shop head since most of the metal goes toward filling the hole.
So, drill your holes just large enough and your riveting will go easier and
better.
You don't have to use an undersized dimple die on a #41 hole; the standard one
works just fine.
FKJ
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Subject: RV-List: Dimpling Stretching Drill Holes
Date: 16 Apr 96 21:52:19 EDT
From: SceptreCal.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM!Terryg(at)matronics.com
4.1)
(8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA05553 for ; Tue
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Charlier R Hillard (fwd) |
I just saw this on the IAC mail list.
There were about 3 postings on this so I think it is true, but uncomfirmed.
Most of you probably saw the nice article on Charlie Hillard's
Sea Fury about a month ago in Sport Aviation (talking about what
Charlie, Tom P., and Gene Soucy will be doing this year after
the Eagles dismantled their aerobatic team after 25 yrs).
This accident happened at about 20 MPH on the rollout.
We are loosing aerobatic pilots at a very high rate.
Just lost Rick Massegee in a SU31 accident last month.
Herman
> From: Dave Bradfield <dbradfield(at)dhvx20.csudh.edu>
> To: iac(at)harten.cbu.edu
> Message-Id: <009A0F3B.D93A3A40.345(at)dhvx20.csudh.edu>
> Subject: Charlier R Hillard
> Sender: iac-request(at)harten.cbu.edu
> Resent-Message-Id:
>
> I just received word that Charlie R. Hillard was killed today.
> I cannot verify it. I would appreciate any info that
> can be forwarded. This info apparently comes from a news account
> mailed to me.
>
> > Charlie R. was killed in a crash in Lakeland Fla. Seems he had rebuilt
> > a WW2 Hawker Sea Fury and modified it for air races. He was landing at a
> > Lakeland Fla. airshow when, on roll-out, smoke was seen coming from the
> > wheel well (s). The airplane veered off the runway and flipped over on
> > its back. Charlie R. was crushed under the airplane. Don't know any more
> > than that.
>
> Dave Bradfield
> dbradfield(at)dhvx20.csudh.edu
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dls(at)neptune.kpt.arl.psu.edu (Dan Shades) |
| Subject: | Dimpling Stretching holes |
Uhmmmmmmm.....
Never mind about the #41 bit being bigger than a #40. My mind engaged about
5 seconds after I sent the message.....
Dan Shades RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | eilts(at)sg37.dseg.ti.com (Henry Eilts) |
Bill Bains asked the question:
> 1) has anybody on the list done enough night flying in a taildragger RV to
> comment on landing lights? I have purchase 1 DUCWORKS Kit and am pondering a
> 2nd. Questions are:
> - 1 light or 2
> - taxi lights?
> - recommended initial angles (vs wing chord?) for landing and taxi
> lights
> - Watts? Is the halogen assy Don supplies bright enough/ focused
> enough/too much.
I've thought a bit about this and here are my thoughts
1. While on its wheels, the taildragger is considerably nose up.
Lights aligned with the nose will end up pointing at the sky after the
tailwheel is on the ground.
2. The 4509 bulb (or 4509X halogen version) has a rectangular beam,
with aspect ratio about 3:2 or 2:1. Installed normally, the wide axis
of the rectangle is horizontal. However, if installed with the wide
axis vertically, then perhaps some light would be on the runway with
the plane in a 3 point attitude. This might make the horizontal spread
of the beam too narrow, so 2 bulbs might be needed to fill in.
3. Taxi lights are nice additions to any aircraft. Landing lights are very
blinding to other aircraft in ground operations. Special lights for ground
ops are a courtesy to your fellow pilots.
Hank Eilts
about to start on an rv-6 tail.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dls(at)neptune.kpt.arl.psu.edu (Dan Shades) |
| Subject: | Re: Dimpling Stretching Drill Holes |
>SceptreCal.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM!Terryg(at)matronics.com writes:
>
>> For dimpling, does it make sense to
>> drill significantly undersized so they "stretch" to the right
>> dimension? (You'd also to have an undersize dimple die, of course.)
>
>Terry, Somewhere in an old RVavtor I believe is a note that #41 is more
>suitable for a hole that will be dimpled, because the finished hole will be
>tighter. And, your standard 3/32 dimple die pilot will work just fine. Of
>
I may be mistaken, but isn't a #41 bigger than a #40 bit. (I.E. #30=1/8")
Dan Shades RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: optionalspAr flange stripps |
>I guess it's like that politician said about money; a million here and
>a million there and next thing you know it adds up to real money.
Ummm... It was Senator Everett Dirksen, and the quote was "a Billion here and
a Billion there..... "
Cheers ... Denny
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Lights |
On my RV-4, I used the Duck Works lights.
I put 1 100W Landing light in left wing and the 55W taxi light in the
right wing. These are in the last wing bay, installed per inst.
As Hank noted, I did this to have a taxi light (on tail dragger)
and also to have some redundancy in case one fails.
The taxi light is aimed lower than the landing light.
I also thought I could use the 55w Taxi light when flying in hazy conditions.
I also have Strobes.
I am a bit disapointed in the amount of light these things put out.
As Don 'Duck' suggests, I did not use the glass lense that comes with
the light due to its heavy weight. I think that lense may help focus
the light better. You may want to try it with the lense on and off
before you close it up with the plexiglass lens cover.
Herman
>
> Bill Bains asked the question:
> > 1) has anybody on the list done enough night flying in a taildragger RV to
> > comment on landing lights? I have purchase 1 DUCWORKS Kit and am pondering
a
> > 2nd. Questions are:
> > - 1 light or 2
> > - taxi lights?
> > - recommended initial angles (vs wing chord?) for landing and
taxi
> > lights
> > - Watts? Is the halogen assy Don supplies bright enough/ focused
> > enough/too much.
>
> I've thought a bit about this and here are my thoughts
>
> 1. While on its wheels, the taildragger is considerably nose up.
> Lights aligned with the nose will end up pointing at the sky after the
> tailwheel is on the ground.
>
> 2. The 4509 bulb (or 4509X halogen version) has a rectangular beam,
> with aspect ratio about 3:2 or 2:1. Installed normally, the wide axis
> of the rectangle is horizontal. However, if installed with the wide
> axis vertically, then perhaps some light would be on the runway with
> the plane in a 3 point attitude. This might make the horizontal spread
> of the beam too narrow, so 2 bulbs might be needed to fill in.
>
> 3. Taxi lights are nice additions to any aircraft. Landing lights are very
> blinding to other aircraft in ground operations. Special lights for ground
> ops are a courtesy to your fellow pilots.
>
> Hank Eilts
> about to start on an rv-6 tail.
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wigmore(at)lancelot.chs.lane.edu (Jack Wigmore) |
| Subject: | vortex generators |
Thanks to all for the input on spar tapering.
Has anyone heard of any experimentation with micro vortex generators on rv
wings?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Who's RV6 is this? |
I just got back from sun-n-fun.
I saw a nice RV6 I wanted to ask questions about, but I didn't see
the owner Sunday or Monday. I went back Tuesday to write down
the name and N-number, but it was gone.
It was a beautiful RV6. White with teal wing tips and maybe
a little of some other color on stripes somewhere. The owner
was from Colorado. It's position in it's row was the 2nd closest
to the plastic fence (ie 2nd farthest away from runway).
I think he had a fixed prop with an O360, but not sure about this
part.
Any ideas who he is and how I could contact him? I just wanted
to ask him about his paint job and congratulate him on great
workmanship (not that I'm an expert).
Thanks,
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Don Karl karl@dg-rtp.dg.com (919)248-5915
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick O'Reilly" <PatrickO(at)ihd.com> |
Hi guys (and galls)!
A brief introduction: I have been on the list for a while but didn't mail
anything as I am not building (YET) and my mail package was spewing out all
sorts of trash when I sent mail to Matt. I am new to the flying fraternity,
and learning and loving every minute of it.
I live near Johannesburg in South Africa. Are there any other South
Africans, even Africans on this list? Please reply to me direct.
The Local EAA fly-in happens May 1 thru May 5. I am hoping to be there. I
believe the first RV kit completed in South Africa will be there ( -6A I
think).
All you chaps ahead with the experience, keep the info flowing. Guys like
me just love to soak it all up.
PS: Matt. Thanks for your help in sorting out my E-mail problem.
Regards, Patrick O'Reilly
patricko(at)ihd.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | french(at)computime.bc.ca (Ted French) |
| Subject: | Re: MX11 comm & Flightom 403 intercom |
Hello all
My thanks to those who responded . As it turned out I was a bit premature
in calling for help. The problem was the location from which I was
listinening to the tower. We live in "the bowl area" which is surrounded by
hills
and the transmitter in behind the hill. I tried again yesterday
and heard the tower talking to an airliner and it was very quiet so up goes
the volumn.
Then the airliner responded and I may have permanent hearing loss in both
ears from the volumn.
Suffice to say, there does not appear to be a problem with the installation.
Thanks again
Ted French
RV-6A
french(at)computime.bc.ca
Ted French
RV-6A C-FXCS
french(at)computime.bc.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | NAEK31A(at)prodigy.com (MR KURT L KEILBACH) |
I was talking to a representative from NSI at SNF on Sunday and he
told me the wear on pistons and rings in the Subaru engines at higher
r.p.m.'s was very comperable to Lyc. . Why , the stroke on the Lyc.
is much longer than the auto engine piston stroke , thus creating
similar friction and wear .
By the way , they had an engine at SNF which is built
specifically for the 6-6a (200 hrs actual flight time on it ) which
was quite a looker . June 1st projected production date , don't hold
your breath we've heard that before . If these engines perform as
advertised and display reasonable reliability , then the prices for
the firewall forward packages really don't sound to bad .
Just some meandering thoughts , I may be wrong , no flames
please.
Kurt Keilbach 6a
Installing elect. flaps option
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: [Fwd: ] Bondo Repair |
> Dick, you may want to post this to the RV-list re: "The Bondo
> Question". My understanding is that Bondo is polyester resin based
> which is much cheaper than epoxy resin and does not adhere as well. It
> is also relatively heavy, although this is normally irrelevent with
> the amount normally used to fill small dings.
> A much stronger bond and lighter fill material can be had by mixing
> epoxy resin with glass micro-bubbles or other light weight filler.
> The glass bubbles are mixed into the epoxy to form a light thick
> filler putty. Once dry it is easily sanded and shaped. These materials
> can be obtained at almost any boating supply store.
Bondo is Polyester resin with filler (Something like Microballoons, I guess).
Epoxy is stickier, and perhaps marine grade epoxy will stick best of all.
Another consideration is that It's possible that epoxy based paint systems
will stick better to an epoxy fill than a polyester one.
No matter what you do, make sure the surface is a clean as possible (alumiprep
it?) And be careful sanding not to damage the metal around it. Consider
using waxed paper to hold the goop in place and roughly to shape while it
cures, maybe even making a form from a bent sheet of metal. This is probably
overkill, but an idea.
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Landing Light Questions |
Bill/Hank, this was fwded to me, so here are my inputs (thx Red):
>Bill Bains asked the question:
>> 1) has anybody on the list done enough night flying in a taildragger RV to
>> comment on landing lights? I have purchase 1 DUCWORKS Kit and am pondering
>> a 2nd.
>>Questions are:
>> - 1 light or 2
One is adequate, if on an RV-6 it MUST be on the pilot's (usually left)
side or the fuse will block it during taxi.
>> - taxi lights?
Some 'taxi' light is provided by the lights in their 'landing'
angle. I have my lights both set for landing.
>> - recommended initial angles (vs wing chord?) for
> landing and taxi lights
This is difficult to measure, and very dependent on your landing style. If you
fly the typical 'modern' approach that is long and low and under power, you will
need an entirely different angle than what I use, which is for a steep, power
off approach. The lights are adjustable to accomodate.
>> - Watts? Is the halogen assy Don supplies bright enough/
I supply a 55watt halogen bulb. Unless you land on unlit strips they are
adequate. For appx $7 you can buy a 100w bulb, JC Whitney even has a 135w
version. We have landed these into an unlit grass strip at night.
>> focused enough/too much.
These are very focused. They light a circle appx 30ft in diam at 1/2 mile (this
is totally my guesstimate from seeing them on the runway on final approach).
>I've thought a bit about this and here are my thoughts
>1. While on its wheels, the taildragger is considerably nose up.
>Lights aligned with the nose will end up pointing at the sky after
>the tailwheel is on the ground.
The lights are never aligned with the nose, try to imagine the approach
attitude of an RV on final (hard to do if you haven't flown one, but it
is more nose high than at cruise, even with flaps out). The lights on
my RV-6 hit a hangar wall beginning at about 7 feet above the ground,
from 50-100 feet away.
>2. The 4509 bulb (or 4509X halogen version) has a rectangular beam,
>with aspect ratio about 3:2 or 2:1. Installed normally, the wide axis
>of the rectangle is horizontal. However, if installed with the wide
>axis vertically, then perhaps some light would be on the runway with
>the plane in a 3 point attitude. This might make the horizontal
>spread of the beam too narrow, so 2 bulbs might be needed to fill in.
That is not the bulb that I use, and the reflector affects the pattern,
but my pattern is only slightly oval, and arranging it as described
would make no difference. Rather, the design of the hole in the wing
skin allows reflected light to 'spill' out onto the ground in front of
the wing, for taxi purposes.
>3. Taxi lights are nice additions to any aircraft. Landing lights are very
>blinding to other aircraft in ground operations. Special lights for ground
>ops are a courtesy to your fellow pilots.
This is true, the main drawback to NOT having a specific taxi light is
the effect on others outside of your aircraft. It would be fairly
simple to add a small lamp to the LL mount for use as a taxi light.
Otherwise, you could use one for taxi, one for landing.
Hope my input is of use. As with everything, there are always different
ways to do it. I don't expect my design to satisfy every builder's
need, that would be impossible. If you would like to discuss options
and whether my kit would support them, or want to do your own but need
just pieces, drop me a note, I'll help if I can.
>Hank Eilts
>about to start on an rv-6 tail.
Don 'The Duck' Wentz, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
don_wentz(at)ccm.hf.intel.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
| Subject: | Re- Engine Break In |
Mail*Link(r) SMTP Re: Engine Break In
"... The AC engine is completely different. The rings will traveling about
half of the distance for a given piston stroke, and if I remember correctly,
that means 4 times the friction/4times the heat generated on the rings in the
auto engine."
Chris
=====================================
Piston speed is determined by:
S x 2 x RPM / 12 = FPM where:
S = stroke in inches
2 = Piston travels in two directions
RPM = revs per minute
12 = Since stroke is inches 12 converts to feet.
FPM = feet per minute
A 350" Chevy (3.48 stroke) at 4,800 RPM = 2,784 FPM
A 360" LYC (4.375 stroke) at 2600 RPM = 1,895 FPM
Generally assumed designed limits for aluminum pistons is about 3,500 FPM.
However, some extreme racing examples (with corresponding reduction in life)
have reached about 5,800 FPM. I know nothing about the break-in of A/C
engines but it appears the biggest difference is that A/C barrels are STEEL
and auto are CAST IRON (AND water cooled). There is a substantial difference
in the wear characteristics of steel vs cast iron. Cast iron has a high
amount of free carbon and a different micro structure that holds oil extremely
well.
Chris is quite right about the different piston velocities but since they are
BOTH substantially BELOW reasonable speed limits it appears that the different
materials (iron vs steel) and temperatures characteristics are the
contributing factors.
Piston clearances are determined by: (1) the kind of piston material (2) and
the operating temperature. (A forged aluminum piston will expand far greater
than a CAST hypereutectic aluminum piston). In theory, after everything is at
normal operating temperature and thermally equilibrated, all serious
clearances should be taken up by expansion with only enough left to prevent
seizure for either kind of engine.
A/C clearances are typically 0.025", stock auto are 0.0005" - 0.002" and auto
racing 0.005" - 0.0065" I think the clearances paint the picture. A/C
conditions are far more extreme that the auto and I would assume the
break-task will not be similar to an auto engine and also more fraught with
failure if not done correctly.
-Elon
ormsby1(at)llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wigmore(at)lancelot.chs.lane.edu (Jack Wigmore) |
Thanks to all for the input on spar tapering.
Has anyone heard of any experimentation with micro vortex generators on rv
wings?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
| Subject: | Alternate Engines (AE's) |
REGARDING Alternate Engines (AE's)
For those interested in AE's Some tech papers of interest:
(1) Steve Whitmans description of his adaptation of the Buick, aluminum block,
V-8. 10 pages. Still available and advertised in the back of Sport Aviation.
He did not use a PRU. He ran the engine INVERTED.
(2) SAE Technical Paper No. 821446: "The application of a liquid Cooled V-8
Piston Engine to General Aviation Aircraft." D. Lawrence Blackaller and Lee
Muir, Oct1982. A description of the development of the Aluminum Chev big
block. A very detailed engineering paper with NO math. Enjoyable and very
readable by anyone with an interest in AE's. May be available through your
local library.
-Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | The details on Charlie Hillard |
Here is more info and confirmation.
This was a 'simple' problem of a brake locking up and let to the
flip over. We can be thankfull that Van put a good roll-bar in
the RV-4. I think the 6 is also OK in this area but depends
on which canopy as to where the roll bar is located.
We know of several that have been on their back and folks waked away.
Too bad Charlie did not have a roll bar put in this plane.
It is a much more massive aircraft also so a lot more weight to
support on the roll over.
Herman
> From root Wed Apr 17 15:50:12 1996
> Resent-From: 70263.1676(at)compuserve.com
> Resent-Date: 17 Apr 96 15:59:54 EDT
> Date: 17 Apr 96 15:59:54 EDT
> From: "Michael R. Heuer" <70263.1676(at)compuserve.com>
> To: IAC Mailing List
> Subject: IAC Mailing List
> Message-Id: <960417195953_70263.1676_JHD190-1(at)CompuServe.COM>
> Sender: iac-request(at)harten.cbu.edu
> Resent-Message-Id:
>
> Dear IAC'ers,
>
> You have all received word already on the death of Charlie Hillard yesterday
at
> the Sun 'n Fun airshow in Lakeland, Florida. The information we have is exactly
> what has already been distributed. Apparently, a brake locked up on landing
and
> the airplane ended up on its back and since it offers little or no rollover
> protection, Charlie was fatally injured.
>
> For those of you who were friends of Charlie, I thought you would like to know
> of the arrangements for his funeral:
>
> Visitation will be on Sunday, April 21st, at 1:00 - 4:00 pm at the Harveson &
> Cole Funeral Home, 702 8th Avenue, Ft. Worth, TX. (817) 336-0345. Friends are
> invited to meet with the family after 4:00 pm at the Hillard Auto Park, 5000
> Bryant Irvin, Ft. Worth, TX.
>
> The funeral service will be on Monday, April 22nd, at 11:00 am at the First
> Methodist United Church in Ft. Worth.
>
> Memorials for Charlie can be made to:
>
> Aviation Heritage Museum, P. O. Box 821, Ft. Worth, TX 76101
> EAA Aviation Foundation, P. O. Box 3065, Oshkosh, WI 54903-3065
>
> Lodging for out-of-town friends can be made at:
>
> Marriott Courtyard, 3150 Riverfront Drive, (817) 335-1300.
> Residence Inn, University Drive, (817) 870-1011.
>
> I know everyone will have their own stories and memories of Charlie. Dad and
I
> were very proud when Charlie bought our Pitts S-1S, N442X, from us in the winter
> of 1971 and went on to win the World Championships in Salon de Provence, France
> in 1972. Being the gentleman he was, he remembered to send Dad a telegram from
> France letting him know about it and thanking him for building a great airplane.
> That airplane now rests in the EAA Museum.
>
> He was one of the greatest aerobatic pilots this world has ever produced.
>
> Mike Heuer
> President of CIVA
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
For the sake of informational purposes I'll share my experience with you =
John.
My flying airplane (Cessna 150) has a Continental 0200 that was majored =
with CannelCrome barrels. It had 32 hrs since major when I bought it. =
It's my first airplane and I spent two years (1200 hrs) restoring =
(repairing systems and structures) it with an IA A&P. It now has 160 hrs =
on the engine and I've been trying to convince my A&P that I've got an =
oil control problem. You see I have to add a quart of oil every 4 to 5 =
hours of operation.=20
When I mention this everyone ask if its burning oil? I reply, no because =
the plugs are clean. I then tell them that I think it blowing it out the =
breather tube because theres oil on the belly. They all respond "all =
engines blow some oil out, how much oil do you put in it?". I answer, =
seven quarts. Six in the case and one in the oil filter. Normal response =
is "well don't put so much in it, run it about two quarts low". Okay =
tried that for a while, didn't help.=20
Did a compression check last year at annual and all cylinders were 75 or =
greater over 80 psi. This year's annual (this past weekend) my A&P says =
"get a gasket kit, we're removing the barrels for a look. Prior to =
removing the barrels the compression check was about the same as last =
year but we noticed air leaking in to the crankcase when we moved the =
piston up and down in the cylinder.
When were removed the cylinders we found the following:
1. Three cylinders had waves in them that you could see and feel.
2. All cylinders had hot spots on them.
3. Two cylinders were out of round.
4. No scoring was observed.
We've determined that the out of round barrels caused the high=20
crankcase pressures which blew the oil out of the breather tube. Being
that this problem has plagued my since I bought the aircraft with 32 hrs
SMOH, we suspect the engine was abused during the initial break-in
process.
John, it sounds like your were able to re-ring your engine. I'm not so =
lucky,
all the barrels were sent back to the cylinder shop today. I'm sure =
their=20
going to want lots of $$$$$$$$$.
Hopefully some of you found this informative.........didn't intend to =
ramble on.
Greg Bordelon=20
greg(at)brokersys.com
Houston TX=20
RV6A builder=20
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stephen Bell <steve(at)discus.lincoln.ac.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: optionalspAr flange stripps |
>
> >My question is all the work of tapering the flange strips on the spar
> >worth a 3lb weight savings? Any options are greatly appreciated.
> >thanks in advance
> >Jack Wigmore
> >Eugene, Oregon
> >
Jack,
Tapering probably gives better stress distribution in the spar (Any
engineers care to comment??) as well as reducing weight.
[i'd guess that what is being removed is pure dead weight]
If that's the case the only real factor to consider is the builders
ability to do a good tapering job.
I lucked onto a good simple way for getting really nice straight tapers.
I used my el cheapo band saw to good effect. A good rule of thumb for
selecting the blade is to have 3 teeth in the thickness of the material.
run the blade at about 200'/min (16 TPI blade. The speed
is a guesstimate of the setting I used & is reasonably important)
overcut the line by a good margin, with a bit of practise I ended up
cutting with about a 1/64" gap between the edge of the cut & the
outside edge of my cutting lines
to "machine" the taper to a good straight edge I used a panel beaters
body file mounted on a block of wood. (the type with lage semi-circular
teeth) ))o)))))))))o))
For me this bit was the key to getting a really good straight taper.
[makes quick work of smoothing the web flanges as well ]
I used a slightly greater edge clearance around the rivet at the tip
of each taper than what is shown on the plans (1/4" shown, I used
3/8"min [2d])
Hope this helps
Steve
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Stephen Bell |
Lincoln University, \--------------------(*)--------------------/
Canterbury,
New Zealand. NIMBUS II - Driver XX
RV 6 - Growing in the garage.
E-Mail: S.Bell(at)ono.lincoln.ac.nz work
steve(at)discus.lincoln.ac.nz play
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Graham Taylor" <gmt(at)iinet.net.au> |
| Subject: | Scratch vs Kits: Cost Analysis Required |
A friend of a friend is wanting to build an RV, paid for by his
employer. The employer wants a cost justification for buying the
kits, as against building from scratch. If anyone has done a
thorough costing of scratch building, could they send me details.
Aluminium and hardware cost heaps more in Australia than in the USA,
so I'd as much info as possible in order to rework the figures in
Aussie dollars.
We all know the kits are the way to go, but this guy just has to
convince an unknowing employer.
Cheers ,
Graham Taylor 6A
Australia
gmt(at)iinet.net.au
Graham Taylor gmt(at)iinet.net.au
Ph (619) 310 3254 Fax (619) 310 6048
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
I've used polyester filler with good look. I suggest using only a third =
of the recommended hardner. By doing this it will stay flexible and =
remain attached to the flexing skin. I will harden and this allows more =
working time.
.......just an old trick.
Greg Bordelon
greg(at)brokersys.com
Houston TX
cutting, filing, drilling stab pieces =20
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Re: control surfaces (fwd) |
You want to know something funny.
This airplane that the US Airforce buys for their new trainer,
it is a Slingsby that they buy from England.
I don't recall the Airforce number (T something).
It is assembled down in SanAntonio (Hondo airport) after import from England.
It was featured in one of the mag's a few months back.
Anyway, this is a composite 2 place with IO540 engine and fixed gear.
But guess what. This thing has FABRIC COVERED CONTROLS on it.
Is this 'back to the future or what'?
This plane beat out the competition, which included folks like Mooney
and numerous other state of the art trainers.
I could not beleive my eyes when I saw this when I toured the factory
down at Hondo Tx where we had an IAC acro meet last year.
I double checked it and talked to the tour guide there and he confirmed
they were fabric.
I like fabric (I fly a Pitts) but I thought it was odd that they would
mix that type of technology after they made the entire aircraft out
of composite.
Herman
>
> Aluminum was scarce at that time.
>
> Finn
>
> You wrote:
> >
> >Something to ponder:
> >Why did most WW2 a/c have fabric covered control surfaces? I'm sure
> they had
> >technology to build them like we do in the RV series. Would a fabric
> elevator
> >be lighter? Was it because fabric is very easy to repair?
> >Would there be any advantage to doing the RV control surfaces in
> fabric, as ,
> >hopefully, no one is shooting at me...
> >Rgds
> >Mark
> >
>
>
--
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis
phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831
MS: 9530 fax: 512-838-1801
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | anyone know of a -6a flipping over? |
With all of the talk of how to escape from a RV-4 or -6, has anyone
ever heard of an accident where an RV-6a flipped over? I suppose it's
possible, and since a -6a is what I'm building, I am just curious.
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6a riviting forward bottom
tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ross Rebgetz <Ross.Rebgetz(at)tvl.tcp.csiro.au> |
| Subject: | Re: optionalspAr flange stripps |
>My question is all the work of tapering the flange stripps on the spar
>worth a 3lb weight savings? Any options are greatly appreciated.
>thanks in advance
>Jack Wigmore
I have just started to taper my spar flange strips because there are not
many places to save 2lbs per wing (p7-1 of RV6 manual).
I have never used a bandsaw before but after 3 strips I can cut a straight
line. I then sand the taper straight using coarse (60 grade) sandpaper and
file it smooth before finally polishing it on a scotchbrite wheel. The
process takes about 30 mins per strip. This is less time than it takes to
remove (to 400 grade sandpaper standard) the scratches and imperfections out
of the surface of the strips. (How do they get all those gouges in the
strips ?)
Regards
Ross
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phone: +61 077 538570 W
+61 077 753192 H
Fax : +61 077 538600 W
Email: Ross.Rebgetz(at)tvl.tcp.csiro.au
Mail : CSIRO
Davies Laboratory
Private Mail Bag
Aitkenvale Qld 4814
Australia
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Break In |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB2C85.E40AB4C0
Rusty, what does Lycoming recommend?
Continental's Service Bulletin recommends for Steel, Nitrided or Chrome Cylinders
the following:
1. Mineral oil lubricant.
2. Install Cowl and cylinder baffling and face aircraft into the wind.
3. Cylinder head temps not to exceed 400 degrees f. and oil temps not
exceed 200 degrees f during ground ops.
4. Operate the engine at 750 RPM for one minute, gradually increasing
toward 1000 RPM in three minutes. Shut down, cool adequately, visually
inspect.
5. Start the engine again and operate it at 750 RPM gradually increasing
to 1500 RPM over a period of four minutes. Run the engine up to full
power for a period not to exceed 10 seconds. Cool, inspect and prepare for flight.
6. Conduct normal take-off with full power and monitor engine. Shallow
climb attitude to gain optimum airspeed and cooling. Rich mixture for all
operations except lean for field elevation and lean to maintain smoothness
during climb in accordance with airframe manufacturer's operating
instructions.
7. Level flight cruise at 75% power with best power or richer mixture for first
hour. Second hour power settings should alternate between 65% and 75%
with best power mixture settings.
8. Low cruise power setting decents, Aviod long descents with cruise RPM
and manifold pressure below 18"hg.
9. Note any discrepancies, make final adjustments. The engine can be
operated in normal service in accordance with the aircraft flight manual.
Greg Bordelon
greg(at)brokersys.com
Houston TX
RV6A builder
on and on) all make differences. The bottom line is that lycoming has a
fairly good handle on how to break in their engine and it seems to have
worked for me over the past 30 years so I'll do it their way.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB2CA7.13C10CC0
Finn.
I have a Henrob torch. I have used it with good results on mostly light =
guage steel. I haven't had much success with aluminum though. I know =
they say you can weld aluminum with this torch and oxy/acet but I =
haven't had any success.
I think I just need more practice and the right alloy's. It's a well =
built unit. Seven hundred sounds a bit pricy, but knowing the quality =
of the torch if they match it with regulators (Harris or equiv.) and =
more than 15 - 20 Cu. Ft. tanks it may not be a bad deal. Al =
prober(at)iwaynet.net
----------
From: Finn Lassen [SMTP:ix.netcom.com!finnlass(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 1996 12:01 AM
Subject: RV-List: Henrob
Is there anybody out there who owns the Henrob welding system?
Recommended? It's at sale at Sun'n'Fun for $700 complete kit with
bottles, regulators, hose, Henrob torch, video and some rods.
Looks like I have some welding to do on my old RV3 kit: engine mount,
fuselage tank, tail spring mount, flap brackets, etc.
Finn
finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Re: engine breakin |
Greg, You should really consider putting a set of new cylinders
from Superior on this thing. They build a super cylinder assembly
and it is only a little more than having one OH and chromed.
Mark Fredrich is on this list and maybe he will ACK this.
I know a number of folks that have got tired (and broke)
screwing around with having cylinders reworked only to have to
do it again (and again).
Check around. We buy from Superior by going through a person that
has an account there. The problem with going through your mechanic
is that he may mark all the work up by 30% or more.
You can get a complete assembly which includes pistons, rings, valves,
springs, etc. I don't know the current price. A fellow C170 pilot
did this and sold off the old cylinders as cores. The C170 (C145/O-300)
uses the same cyl/piston/valves as the O-200.
I would guess your mechanic may have an account at Superior.
I can call and get a price if you don't have access to them.
Right now, with all the problems I hear about Cerimi Chrome I think
that putting new cylinders on is a win. You get new heads and all
(I bet yours have been welded or will need welded to fix craks around
the Exh ports. They all crack).
If you send the parts to ECI, they can use the Cermi-Nil (Nickle platting)
but they remove the heads and then they want the heat treat the heads
(IFR process), etc. etc. Might as well spend the money on new parts.
You will have steel barrels and will have less brake-in problems.
Herman
> For the sake of informational purposes I'll share my experience with you =
>
> John.
>
> My flying airplane (Cessna 150) has a Continental 0200 that was majored =
> with CannelCrome barrels. It had 32 hrs since major when I bought it. =
> It's my first airplane and I spent two years (1200 hrs) restoring =
> (repairing systems and structures) it with an IA A&P. It now has 160 hrs =
> on the engine and I've been trying to convince my A&P that I've got an =
> oil control problem. You see I have to add a quart of oil every 4 to 5 =
> hours of operation.=20
>
> When I mention this everyone ask if its burning oil? I reply, no because =
> the plugs are clean. I then tell them that I think it blowing it out the =
> breather tube because theres oil on the belly. They all respond "all =
> engines blow some oil out, how much oil do you put in it?". I answer, =
> seven quarts. Six in the case and one in the oil filter. Normal response =
> is "well don't put so much in it, run it about two quarts low". Okay =
> tried that for a while, didn't help.=20
>
> Did a compression check last year at annual and all cylinders were 75 or =
> greater over 80 psi. This year's annual (this past weekend) my A&P says =
> "get a gasket kit, we're removing the barrels for a look. Prior to =
> removing the barrels the compression check was about the same as last =
> year but we noticed air leaking in to the crankcase when we moved the =
> piston up and down in the cylinder.
>
> When were removed the cylinders we found the following:
> 1. Three cylinders had waves in them that you could see and feel.
> 2. All cylinders had hot spots on them.
> 3. Two cylinders were out of round.
> 4. No scoring was observed.
>
> We've determined that the out of round barrels caused the high=20
> crankcase pressures which blew the oil out of the breather tube. Being
> that this problem has plagued my since I bought the aircraft with 32 hrs
> SMOH, we suspect the engine was abused during the initial break-in
> process.
>
> John, it sounds like your were able to re-ring your engine. I'm not so =
> lucky,
> all the barrels were sent back to the cylinder shop today. I'm sure =
> their=20
> going to want lots of $$$$$$$$$.
>
> Hopefully some of you found this informative.........didn't intend to =
> ramble on.
>
> Greg Bordelon=20
> greg(at)brokersys.com
> Houston TX=20
> RV6A builder=20
>
>
--
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis
phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831
MS: 9530 fax: 512-838-1801
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WCannon313(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: rv - 8 drag race |
You are right Van did beat the super 182. However, he got thoroughly waxed
the following day by this absolutely tiny Davis DA-9 with a 90 horse
Continental turning around 3100 RPM in the climb mode. Goes to show
you-----nothin beats light weight.
Walt Cannon
RV-6 Fly in July
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
Well, I'm back from Vegas and the V6 RV6A still hasn't flown yet. It seems
that they messed up the original weight an balance numbers and are doing them
over.
My observations: Jess is a really nice guy. He went out of his way to meet
me and show me the V6 installation. The installation looks very well done,
and looks like it belongs there. The custom exhaust was done by a car
company (Edlebrock?, I forget) and will have a part # that can be ordered
from an auto parts place for around $150.
Unfortunately, there is no flying data to report. Jess says he plans on the
motor turning 3500 at cruise and that these motors pull campers and boats at
and above that power setting all day long. How well that translates to
pulling an airplane still remains to be seen IMHO.
Jess also showed me his Swift, and demonstrated starting it by turning on the
ignition, and giving it ever so slightly a one-handed flip of the prop.
Fired right up, and idled about 500 rpm. You certainly can't argue with the
14 years and 700 hours he's got on that conversion.
Anyway, I feel that Jess is a guy that knows what he's doing, and he feels
confident about this installation. I for one, hope it works out.
Also on the subject of Auto engines, The rental company screwed up my
reservation and instead of the Nissan Altima I rented, all they had left was
a '96 Mitsubishi Eclipse convertible that they let me have for the same
price. Being the gracious person that I am, I relented.
BTW, my finish kit arrived today, and on the same truck was a brand new O-360
going to someone about 20 miles away. I hope he doesn't mind the drool
stains...
Well, I'm off to make Plexiglass dust!
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | NMARSHAL(at)auto.rockwell.com |
| Subject: | Re: engine breakin |
This months edition of the UK Flight Safety Bulletin contains a detailed article
on the (apparently successful) procedures followed for the break-in & first
fifty hours operation of a Lyc O-235 engine in a Piper Tomahawk.
I can let you have a copy by fax or mail if you send me details
Nigel Marshall
Chevreuse, France
RV-4 (# 4062) Elevators
nmarshal(at)aopari.remnet.rockwell.com
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RV-List: engine breakin
Date: 13/04/96 09:30
For those who have rebuilt the Lyc engine:
What procedure did you use? When I first rebuilt, I followed what a
reliable person told me he had gotten from the ring manufacturer, a proc. of
run at certain rpm for 3 min., shut down and completely cool, second run of
3 min at higher rpm, shut down and cool, etc. Then, when my compression had
dropped at 125 hours, and the cly. were glazed, I was advised by many that
the rings did not seat, set, run in, breakin or whatever. So I followed
advice and deglazed, installed new rings. Now comes the important
decision--breakin of new rings.
I looked in the overhaul book and it had only test stand procedures, so I
started asking around-- seems that there are as many 'absolutely right'
procedures as there are people. The pilots operating hand book has a
procedure for it, but so far everone has advised that it is out of date, Lyc
no longer recommends it, etc. etc. Even the overhaul printed assembly oil
mixture is said by some that Lyc. no longer recommends. I have been told
absolutely that since I used 15% STP (as Lyc recomends), that I have wasted
my ring job. The FBO was going to print out something that proved his point
of run in, but when done, did not.
I'm sure to many, I have screwed the whole thing up, but so far I have good
compression and the oil use has stabilized in 5 hours.
Any experience, Lyc. info etc.?
John D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: engine breakin |
>John, it sounds like your were able to re-ring your engine. I'm not so lucky,
>all the barrels were sent back to the cylinder shop today. I'm sure their
>going to want lots of $$$$$$$$$.
>
>Hopefully some of you found this informative.........didn't intend to
ramble on.
>
>Greg Bordelon
>greg(at)brokersys.com
>Houston TX
>RV6A builder
>
Greg, hope you have a fat wallet. Some one wrote about the Superior cyl.
For your info, the FBO here just put four on a Cont. in a Cessna 150. Said
they were 750.00 per. I had thought seriously that if I have the same
problem again, to look into doing the Superior thing. For my Lyc 0-320, I
recently saw a figure of aprox. 1250.00 per. High, but not too bad when you
consider all that's in the cyl. kit. Well, not too bad for an AIRCRAFT
GRADE piece of parts. Damm high for a cheapskate like me.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
To all:
I asked Mattituck about the break-in. I think they have rightly earned a
good name in engine work. Their response was complete and thorough and in
detail. It is similar to, but not the same as Lyc. procedure in the
Operators Handbook. It is a little long, so I will not send to all. If
anyone is interested, write me, I'll forward a copy to any one who replys.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jtvincen(at)tdsuport.redstone.army.mil (John T. Vincent) |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Break In |
Hi Everyone,
I've been lurking for a few weeks, and I really enjoy reading the mail.
Just FYI, the Haynes Manual for the Plymouth Voyager reccomends the
following break in procedure (paraphrased by me):
1. Without spark plugs installed and ignition disabled, turn the
starter enough to register oil pressure.
2. Install plugs, check fluids, etc.
3. Start Engine, allow to run until warmed up, then check
for leaks, top off fluids, etc.
4. Drive to a non-congested area and do a full-throttle
acceleration from 30-50 MPH, followed by a no-throttle
decceleration (sp?) back to 30 MPH. Repeat the accel./
decel. cycle 10-12 times. (This is to seat the rings.)
6. Drive without sustained high speeds for next 200 miles.
( I assume this is to avoid localized high temperatures)
7. Change oil/filter, drive normally, then change oil/filter
again at 2000 miles and consider engine break-in complete.
I know this has little to do with RV's, but it looks as though a very
similar approach is recommended by the Lycoming Fly right away procedure.
Thanks for the good ideas everyone, and thanks for allowing us lurkers.
John T. Vincent - Intergraph Corp.
Airplane - Collecting Information for Decision
jtvincen(at)ingr.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: engine breakin |
I read somewhere in the last few months that this is caused by
shock cooling. The article said that the fins on the cylinders cool
faster than the rest of the cylinder and this causes the ridges.
It may have been in LPM or SA??? I don't remember.
Chris
> 1. Three cylinders had waves in them that you could see and feel.
>
> Greg Bordelon=20
> greg(at)brokersys.com
> Houston TX=20
> RV6A builder=20
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: engine breakin |
It depends on what sort of luck you have with rebuild cylinders.
I have a cracked O-360 cylinder in my shop that has 120 hours on it.
It's the clasic exhaust valv to spark-plug hole crack. You can never
tell what you are getting with rebuilt cylinders. They could be on
their ninth life and ready to expire.
'85W is getting a new engine in two weeks and we have opted for new
cylinders. It will be an extra $2K, but that's cheap when compared to
the cost of replacing a cylinder in some back water podunk areodrom.
Right now, Lyc. and Superior are having a price war of sorts and
the cost on new cylinders is real low compared to what it was a few
years ago. A good rebuild will be about $750 a hole w/new piston,
rings, etc. The new cylinder is about $1200.
BTW, does anybody know of anybody running the Superior cylinders
on a Lyc. O-360? I would like to use them, but I'm concerned about
the lack of field experience with them. They look like a better
casting than the Lyc , but looks don't mean squato when it comes to
the real world.
Chris
> >
> Greg, hope you have a fat wallet. Some one wrote about the Superior cyl.
> For your info, the FBO here just put four on a Cont. in a Cessna 150. Said
> they were 750.00 per. I had thought seriously that if I have the same
> problem again, to look into doing the Superior thing. For my Lyc 0-320, I
> recently saw a figure of aprox. 1250.00 per. High, but not too bad when you
> consider all that's in the cyl. kit. Well, not too bad for an AIRCRAFT
> GRADE piece of parts. Damm high for a cheapskate like me.
> John D
> John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
> johnd@our-town.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hovan <hovan(at)apple.com> |
| Subject: | [Fwd: WANTED : RV-3] |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------39DF38004AF8
Hi All,
I received the below message yesterday. If you can help Louis find
a low time RV-3, please contact him.
thanks,
John
-----------
Subject: WANTED : RV-3
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 20:55:42 -0400
From: Larry Willig <larywil(at)op.net>
To: hovan(at)apple.com
Dear Mr. Hovan,
I'm having a difficult time finding a completed, low time, RV-3 for
sale. Must have wing tanks and 0-320. I would love to build but am
unable. Can you HELP? Thanks for your time.
Louis Willig (610) 668-4964 or E-Mail
--------------39DF38004AF8
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 20:55:42 -0400
From: Larry Willig <larywil(at)op.net>
Subject: WANTED : RV-3
Dear Mr. Hovan,
I'm having a difficult time finding a completed, low time, RV-3 for
sale. Must have wing tanks and 0-320. I would love to build but am
unable. Can you HELP? Thanks for your time.
Louis Willig (610) 668-4964 or E-Mail
--------------39DF38004AF8--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
| Subject: | Sun N Fun Report |
Hi Ya'll
Quick report from Lakeland. I was there on Sunday and walked in as Van flew
the -8 on his time to climb against pushy galore. Then hung around the Van's
tent as they drug the -8 back from the flight. On my video I noticed that
the National Anthem was playing as Van taxied up and got out. Seemed
appropriate.
After the show closed and everyone swamped the parked planes area I was
walking around all of the RV's, being barraged with ideas based on other
peoples neat alterations, when I stumbled on a pristinely clean white and
yellow -6 that some guy was preparing to blast off in. I commented to the
guy about what a beauty he had there and lo and behold if it wasn't our pal
Bob Skinner. We were immediately joined by Joe from Tampa (sorry, terrible
with names especially when I have that many distractions) and we had a
little rv-list convention by Bobs bird.
Anyhoo, the point is, of all the other planes that were parked together, the
RV crowd was the only one that I was guaranteed to strike up a conversation
with my fellow admirers. I was damn glad to be building this plane, seems
birds of a feather build similar birds. By the way I'll be taking Bob at his
word on the list from now on, he can back up his talk. I would be more than
pleased if my plane came out looking like 69X.
Next year maybe we can get something formal going, maybe even force Matt
into a public speaking engagement.
See Ya,
Eric Henson
Dana Point, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: Sun N Fun Report |
>--------------
>Hi Ya'll
>
>
>
>Next year maybe we can get something formal going, maybe even force Matt
>into a public speaking engagement.
>
>See Ya,
>
>Eric Henson
>Dana Point, CA
>--------------
"ahh, well, ahh, I'd like to welcome you all to the First Annual RV-List
Fourm at Sun n Fun..." :-)
Actually, I think that Matronics will have a presence at Sun and Fun in '97.
Depends on two factors: 1) when I finish my -4, and 2) how many of you purchase
a FuelScan between now and then! Get my drift? :-)
I have been also thinking about sponsering an RV Flyin at Livermore CA. It
seems like its about time. Probably in '97 as well though, since I *really*
want to finish my RV before such an event!
Matt Dralle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Acker <75104.3077(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | New builder (and RV-6A/6 conversion) |
I have officially gone from lurker/wannabe to builder! Just returned from
sun'n'fun, where I ordered a RV-6 (uh...actually I rationalized myself, with the
help of a few builders, into the 6A) Quickbuild kit! I met a lot of RV flyers
and builders, including some on the RV-list, which was really great (thanks
guys!).
I originally wanted the RV-6...but being a non-current, relatively low-time,
tricycle gear trained pilot I started reconsidering (safety over "sportiness").
I also had concerns about getting out of a flipped RV...seems the -6A would be
less prone to this type of incident (coincidentally I came back from my trip to
find a thread on this subject, i.e. escape).
I do prefer the looks of the -6. I can still change my order...so all you
taildraggers please speak up. If RV-3/4/6's really are "pussycats" on the
ground I would rather build the -6.
Is it possible to go from -6A to 6? I ask because at some later date I *will*
obtain taildragger training (as I have always wanted to do). If I find I prefer
it, I think I could convert the -6A to -6 by switching engine mounts/legs and
adding the tailwheel (and associated structure). Possibility, or am I missing
something?
Thanks, and I look forward to participating here as a builder, finally!
Rob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | hsutphin <harold_sutphin(at)ccmail.orl.mmc.com> |
| Subject: | Elevator deflection |
While at sun n' fun I looked at several (RV-6/As) aircraft elevators, and since
I
had just fitted my right elevator to the HS, I was concerned with total
deflection 30 deg up to 25 deg. down called out in the manual. The majority of
aircraft I looked at had to notch the flange on the rear spar (hs 602) of the HS
to clear the control arm (wd 405) to get the proper travel.(This was discussed
earlier in the archive).
I also noticed that the rod end hinge bolts were adjusted from no threads showing
to 5 threads showing.
To get the proper deflection on mine, I had to notch the flange and I
also adjusted the rod end bearing to 15/16" vs. 13/16" shown on the plans. My
skin overhang is per the plan, as is my LE dimension for the elevator. Anyone
else have problems adjusting distance/travel on the elevators?
Harold
RV-6A (wings on order)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New builder (and RV-6A/6 conversion) |
On 18 Apr 1996, Robert Acker wrote:
> *snip*
>
> I do prefer the looks of the -6. I can still change my order...so all you
> taildraggers please speak up. If RV-3/4/6's really are "pussycats" on the
> ground I would rather build the -6.
>
Rob,
This is really a personal decision. I learned tail draggers flying in a
C140 (Great airplane!!) but it was much harder to control than my RV-4.
The RV-4 seems much more stable, the C140 always seemed so light but I've
probably got 10X more hours in a RV-4 now, maybe if I went back and flew
another C140 it would easier.
If I were to build a 6 I would choose a 6A just because I like the way
they look sitting on the ground. You choose.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Mandel <mandel(at)esy.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New builder (and RV-6A/6 conversion) |
>I do prefer the looks of the -6. I can still change my order...so all you
>taildraggers please speak up. If RV-3/4/6's really are "pussycats" on the
>ground I would rather build the -6.
Taildraggers have a bad reputation. It is undeserved! Taildraggers are
three times more fun to Take-off, Land and Taxi. Taildraggers need to
be flown from chock to chock. It's not difficult, but it is demanding. It's
easy to learn to fly a taildragger and it's very rewarding. I'd rather have
a tail wheel than a nose wheel on a grass strip. If you plan to use grass
go with the tail wheel. The worst scare I've ever had in aviation was in a
Tomahawk on take-off on a grass strip in Wisconsin. The nose gear hit a
rut before the tail was flying. Props don't make good shovels.
___________________________________________________________
/ \\|// _____0_____ \
| (o o) / \ A New Start |
\_o00o~(_)~o00o_____________ |
/ Scott L. Mandel \ Email: mandel(at)esy.com |
| 6813 Pendrige Drive | Voice: 1-214-205-8762 |
| Plano, Tx. 75024 | Fax: 1-214-205-6012 |
\___________________________/_______________________________/
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Arter <arter(at)acd.ucar.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: New builder (and RV-6A/6 conversion) |
Rob,
Why don't you go and get checked out in a taildragger and see if you like
it? (you will). Seems a lot easier that converting an RV-6A into an RV-6,
you'll have fun and get current.
Phil
RV-8 on order
arter(at)acd.ucar.edu
>Is it possible to go from -6A to 6? I ask because at some later date I *will*
>obtain taildragger training (as I have always wanted to do). If I find I
prefer
>it, I think I could convert the -6A to -6 by switching engine mounts/legs and
>adding the tailwheel (and associated structure). Possibility, or am I missing
>something?
>
>Thanks, and I look forward to participating here as a builder, finally!
>
>Rob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thomas N. Martin" <103212.65(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | RV-6a flipped on back |
I do not know if any 6a's have turned over yet but over the years lots of cessna
aircraft have ended wrong way up. It only takes a fence or a ditch to make the
plane go over.
I received lots of replies regarding escaping from an overturned aircraft. It
would seem that we should carry a heavy, somewhat pointed object with us to act
as a canopy breaker. The tool should have at least one sharp edge that can be
used to scratch an "X". This marks the spot to start a crack. An axe is not a
good tool as it will bounce off and often there is not enough room to swing it
either.
Another very useful tool is a hacksaw blade with duct tape on one end for a
handle. this is very light, does not take up room, and would make quick work of
the canopy frame.
Hopefully none of us will have to use these tools but I would hate to be hanging
upside down waiting for help.
Thanks again
Tom Martin
RV-4 the Raven
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
Chris, I seem to forget my troubles when I sequester myself to my garage
and work on my -6; WHOA BROTHERS CAN I GET AN A-MEN HERE?
If its RV's your a seekin try the Chino Ca. Aerofair May 4-5. EAA chapter 92
will have a hands on workshop featuring me as waterboy. Lots of very good
builders will be there. Bob O'Connell will have his -6 there (second place
kit at copperstate) and there will be plenty of war stories exchanged.
Please drop by and mangle a rivet with us it will be a good time. Till then
keep your chin up.
Eric Henson
Dana Point, CA
P.S. don't sweat that Kraproom thing, Chino smells like one. MOOOOOOOOOO!
----------
> Well, I'm not building an RV (yet). Just getting interested in building
>an airplane. If I do build one, it will almost definately be an RV-6.
>Still making the decision between buying a four-seater and building a
>two-seater. If Van's marketed a four seater, it would be a REAL tough
choice
>for me. I would like to buy so that I could fly the same airplane
>regularly. Every rental I get into has different radios, different speeds,
>you never know whats going to be broken when you get there, etc. Passengers
>unfamiliar with aviation would probably dislike the amature built "warning"
>on the panel of a kit. I would like to build because I enjoy doing things
>with my hands. I would relish the learning experiance of building an
>airplane, and the sense of accomplishment.
I'm not worried about this ruining my marriage, since my wife left me 2
months ago. Can't buy a kit yet since I lost my job the day after my wife
left. (really, February SUCKED!) Ran into Ed Bundy on
Rec.Aviation.Homebuilts. I flew with him once or twice when he lived out
here in la-la land, and lost touch with him when he moved. Small world! He
pointed me to this list, so blame him.
I've done virtually nil with sheet metal, ever. I've read lots of posts in
the list about modifiying riviting tools, using different rivits from the
plans in certain areas, etc., and wonder if this stuff is obvious once you
get into it, or if you need to REALLY KNOW what you're doing before you
start.
I live in Moorpark, CA, about 30 miles NW of Lost Angeles. Yes, I know
Moorpark spelled backwords is Kraproom, that's an old joke. Anyone on this
list building and/or flying an RV-6 in the area?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher M. Kelley cmk(at)pacificnet.net
COMM IFR ASEL Chris.Kelley(at)mogur.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
| Subject: | Re: Sun N Fun Report |
Sounds great Rob as long as we're not racing. I'm the origional designer of
the SLOW build kit. Good thing is you get a PHD in trim tabs and one of
those neat Tip O'Neal hairdoo's. Call me (714) 661-4847
Eric
************************** REPLY SEPERATOR ************************
>Hi Eric,
>Noticed you are in Dana Point. I bought the RV-6A quickbuild kit at
>sun'n'fun...and since you are so close to me (I'm in Rancho Santa
Margarita),
>maybe we can get together some time and maybe even help each other with our
>projects.
>Let me know. BTW, I agree about Bob Skinners's plane...beautiful, and it
was
>nice meeting some RV-lister's in person.
Rob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Acker <75104.3077(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | New builder (and RV-6A/6 conversion) |
Frank,
>> I'd like to find out a bit more about the QuickBuild kit. I've ordered
a -6 empennage, but I think it's still at Van's (due to freight costs,
I'm getting my tools sent from Avery to Van's... I don't think they've
arrived yet). I'm hoping it's not too late to switch to a QuickBuild.
What's the difference in price between the QB empennage and the
regular empennage? <<
Here goes...there is no empennage quickbuild kit. The quickbuild kit consists
of an almost entirely completed basic airframe, all riveted and primed (tail,
wings, and fuselage). When I was ordering mine, a guy walked up that had same
situation you do. Van's offered to credit his empennage towards the quickbuild
kit, so make your call soon!
BTW, price of entire quickbuild airframe including finishing kit is $19,320
(RV-6) and $19,995 (RV-6A). I opted for the quickbuild not to save time, but to
cut down on riveting noise and primer odor (close neighbors and an association
that deals with "nuisances" rather drastically). Looking at the kit, I
guesstimate a 95% reduction in these two areas, and a 1000-1200 hour reduction
in overall build time.
>> Welcome to the 'club'. <<
Thanks!
Rob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rbusick(at)nmsu.edu (Robert Busick) |
| Subject: | Re: Weenie Wheel Debate |
>I do prefer the looks of the -6. I can still change my order...so all you
>taildraggers please speak up. If RV-3/4/6's really are "pussycats" on the
>ground I would rather build the -6.
>Rob.
Rob
I recommend that you get go with exactly what you really want. If
you want safety then by all means go with the 6A. If you want the -6 just
for looks, then I'm not so sure you should go for it, afterall you can't
see the airplane when your flying and even some misguided RV builders think
the 6A looks better anyway! But if you've always wanted a taildragger,
this maybe your only chance to get one. I received my tailwheel sign off
in an RV-6 from Mike Seager. I only had about 85 hours TT at the time.
Flying a taildragger is a skill that must be learned and if you can
learn how to fly and have the desire, you probably have the potential to
learn how to fly a taildragger. I found that landing and taking off in a
taildragger is a real blast! It is the best thing I have experienced in
flying to date!
On the other hand there is a 6A at the Lordsburg NM Airport and the
owner is scared to death of the plane. The owner is not the builder, and
he is not comfortable with the quick responses and the higher speeds of the
RV-6A. This type of flyer should definately not go with a -6.
As far as changing over from a 6A to a 6, anything can be done with
enough money and time. If it can be done, you probably won't ever do it.
Why? An RV-3 builder and flyer in El Paso Tx has been flying his unpainted
RV-3 for quite a while now (years). He tells me he is having too much fun
flying it to take the necessary time out to paint it. What a revolting
dilemma!
Every time this issue is brought up we get an unbelievable amount
of messages as to which is best. Stand by for a tidal wave!!
Bob Busick "No weenie wheel for me"
RV-6
rbusick(at)nmsu.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rbusick(at)nmsu.edu (Robert Busick) |
| Subject: | Re: New builder (and RV-6A/6 conversion) |
>I do prefer the looks of the -6. I can still change my order...so all you
>taildraggers please speak up. If RV-3/4/6's really are "pussycats" on the
>ground I would rather build the -6.
>
>Rob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Elevator deflection |
| From: | "Earl Brabandt" <cwbraban(at)ichips.intel.com> |
> To get the proper deflection on mine, I had to notch the flange and I
> also adjusted the rod end bearing to 15/16" vs. 13/16" shown on the plans. My
> skin overhang is per the plan, as is my LE dimension for the elevator. Anyone
> else have problems adjusting distance/travel on the elevators?
Harold,
These kinds of adjustments appear to be common. It's also common to require
notches in the 1/8" angle material at the rear bulkhead on the fuse when
you finally mount the h-stab. Consider the possibility when drilling
the holes for the rivets on that short angle piece on the fuse. It's
possible to trim the h-stab skin overhang just slightly short or barley
(almost imperceptably) bend it to get a few more degrees of elevator
travel without interference too.
While I'm on the subject, I didn't like the design of the ambiguous
elevator stops in the plans. There's no good place to rivet a stop
to the h-stab rear spar and I didn't like the idea of riveting a stop
on the rear bulkhead web, which is relatively thin, and would also
further limit travel requiring me to grind more material off of my
elevator control horns. (They already required some grinding to get
full design travel). Therfore, I used an piece of .063 angle with
one side cut down for the down elevator stop, and I used the rear
(and somewhat notched) 1/8" angle that's bolted to the longerons
as the up stop. I drilled a hole in the down stop .063 angle
and mounted it with one of the four center bearing mount AN3 bolts (it
required one larger size bolt). The stops look plenty strong and
in the spirit of Van's phone assistance line, I "just made it work!"
I'd advise anyone just completing their tail to not even worry about
getting the travel set up correctly until you mount your tail on
your fuse. It turns out that it is just a waste of time until then
because you'll be putting the elevators on and off countless times
later to get the travel right without interference with the fuse--
might as well do it all at once!
Cal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: anyone know of a -6a flipping over? |
> With all of the talk of how to escape from a RV-4 or -6, has anyone
>ever heard of an accident where an RV-6a flipped over? I suppose it's
>possible, and since a -6a is what I'm building, I am just curious.
> Mark LaBoyteaux
> RV-6a riviting forward bottom
> tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com
>
>
I know of a 6A that flipped on landing near Seattle about a year or so ago.
The pilot had some difficulty with the landing and on the second or third
bounce/porpoise rolled left and caught a wingtip on the runway. The plane
rolled upside down and slid off the runway to the left. It came to rest
with the VS crunched down (up?) 3 to 5 inches. If you were to draw a
straight line from the shortened VS to the flywheel you'll know how far the
'roll bar' was crushed in. Both the pilot and passenger are fairly short
people but they both suffered head and neck injuries. There was no fire but
the passenger received fuel chemical burns. She was not removed from the
aircraft until after 15 to 20 minutes.
The roll bar may have held if the plane hadn't been sliding down the runway
as it rolled over. Obviously, the plexiglas shattered on impact.
Mark,
I have to ask--- How do you pronounce your last name? Please tell me it
isn't pronounced La boy toy!!
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bpboyd(at)cdsnet.net (bruce boyd) |
| Subject: | Re: New builder (and RV-6A/6 conversion) |
Rob
If you perfer the RV-6 go for it, People have been flying tail draggers for
a long
time. With the proper training It's not as tough as people think it is, Just
remember
what the rudder peddles are for. In my opinion the RVs are pussycats.
I finished my first RV a 4 in 1987, I had never flown taildraggers before.
There were no taildraggers available for instructions so I taught myself.
I had no problems at all, After 6 years flying my 4 I sold it.
I now have a RV-6 with about 50 hrs on it that I finished last year.
I think the 6 is a little less of a pussycat than the 4, maybe because
the forward visibility is not as good on landing as the 4. Anyway I havent
bent anything yet so if you get proper training you should have no problem.
Think positive.....
As for converting the 6a to 6 Iam not sure of the expense but it probably
can be done.
Good Luck...Bruce
>I have officially gone from lurker/wannabe to builder! Just returned from
>sun'n'fun, where I ordered a RV-6 (uh...actually I rationalized myself,
with the
>help of a few builders, into the 6A) Quickbuild kit! I met a lot of RV flyers
>and builders, including some on the RV-list, which was really great (thanks
>guys!).
>
>I originally wanted the RV-6...but being a non-current, relatively low-time,
>tricycle gear trained pilot I started reconsidering (safety over "sportiness").
>I also had concerns about getting out of a flipped RV...seems the -6A would be
>less prone to this type of incident (coincidentally I came back from my trip to
>find a thread on this subject, i.e. escape).
>
>I do prefer the looks of the -6. I can still change my order...so all you
>taildraggers please speak up. If RV-3/4/6's really are "pussycats" on the
>ground I would rather build the -6.
>
>Is it possible to go from -6A to 6? I ask because at some later date I *will*
>obtain taildragger training (as I have always wanted to do). If I find I
prefer
>it, I think I could convert the -6A to -6 by switching engine mounts/legs and
>adding the tailwheel (and associated structure). Possibility, or am I missing
>something?
>
>Thanks, and I look forward to participating here as a builder, finally!
>
>Rob.
>
>
>
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 22:10:57 -0500
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: RV-List: Prop Extension
A friend, who is building a RV-6, is ready to fit his cowl but is undecided
on what prop he is going to use. He has the CS cowl and needs to figure out
a way to fit the rear spinner bulkhead. He thinks that he may buy the
Sensenich FP metal prop, but is undecided. Does someone have an idea on
what to use for a spacer (thickness, etc.), or do you have the proper size
extension that we could borrow for a while? Any ideas appreciated. Bob
Skinner RV-6
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Chat- Sun&Fun return |
RV-listers:
I made it back from S&F. What an adventure. About 9 to 9 1/2 hours each
way, 1350 miles. It was a pleasure to meet the "listers" that were there
and put faces to names.
I stopped at BF Gibbons at Rogers, Arkansas. Had a nice visit and looked
at his project. He's doing a good job in very confined quarters and it
looks like he will have a fine airplane. BF took me to visit Jim Younkin's
shop in Springdale, AR. The March 96 Sport Aviation had an article on Jim's
forming of an aluminum cowl for the round engines that are going on the
Mullicoupes that Jim is building. The work that Jim was doing was
incredible. He's building 3 Mullicoupes at the same time.
I left Thur. am around 11:00 and got to Lexington at 9:30 p.m. That's
the farthest I've ever flown in my own airplane and also the lowest
elevation that I've had an airplane. The take off and climb was incredible.
The engine was pulling 30" MP and the 6 really performed. If only I could
duplicate the performance at 5,000 + feet.
S & F comment--- I think the arrival procedure is really poor and may
have contributed to the deaths of three people on Fri. They wanted you to
fly a really close-in downwind which all but eleminated a base leg. It was
more like a 180 degree turn onto final. A Piper, with three people, seems
to have overshot final and stalled while banking steeply to get lined back
up. (Disclaimer---the proceding is the consenses of laymen, not NSTB or
FAA) Anyway, I talked to several pilots who did as I did. They made their
downwind farther away from the runway so they had time to establish a good
base and a proper turn onto final. Well, I could go on, but it wouldn't
surprise me if the arrival procedure might be cited in the NSTB report as
one of the factors contributing to this tragic accident.
On a brighter note, I treated myself to another gadget that I so richly
deserve. I bought a Bose aviation ANR headset. Those of you who talked to
me at S&F might have noticed that I have a little trouble in the hearing
department. My wife has also mentioned this to me several times :) I
bought a Telex 4000 ANR a year ago and it did work, but nothing like the
Bose. The noise reduction in the Bose was unbelievable. Where the Telex
became uncomfortable on the trip down after a few hours, the Bose felt as
good when I got home as it did when I took off. Anyway, they offer a trial
period of 30 days, if you don't like it, you can send it back, so I thought
at least I could test it on the way home. Well, they can't have it back!
(One thing bugged me though. Would you believe that they didn't have 6 AA
batteries to power the unit? You'd think that for what these things cost,
they would supply batteries, the tight wads.)
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bpboyd(at)cdsnet.net (bruce boyd) |
| Subject: | Re: New builder (and RV-6A/6 conversion) |
Rob
If you perfer the RV-6 go for it, People have been flying tail draggers for
a long
time. With the proper training It's not as tough as people think it is, Just
remember
what the rudder peddles are for. In my opinion the RVs are pussycats.
I finished my first RV a 4 in 1987, I had never flown taildraggers before.
There were no taildraggers available for instructions so I taught myself.
I had no problems at all, After 6 years flying my 4 I sold it.
I now have a RV-6 with about 50 hrs on it that I finished last year.
I think the 6 is a little less of a pussycat than the 4, maybe because
the forward visibility is not as good on landing as the 4. Anyway I havent
bent anything yet so if you get proper training you should have no problem.
Think positive.....
As for converting the 6a to 6 Iam not sure of the expense but it probably
can be done.
Good Luck...Bruce
>I have officially gone from lurker/wannabe to builder! Just returned from
>sun'n'fun, where I ordered a RV-6 (uh...actually I rationalized myself,
with the
>help of a few builders, into the 6A) Quickbuild kit! I met a lot of RV flyers
>and builders, including some on the RV-list, which was really great (thanks
>guys!).
>
>I originally wanted the RV-6...but being a non-current, relatively low-time,
>tricycle gear trained pilot I started reconsidering (safety over "sportiness").
>I also had concerns about getting out of a flipped RV...seems the -6A would be
>less prone to this type of incident (coincidentally I came back from my trip to
>find a thread on this subject, i.e. escape).
>
>I do prefer the looks of the -6. I can still change my order...so all you
>taildraggers please speak up. If RV-3/4/6's really are "pussycats" on the
>ground I would rather build the -6.
>
>Is it possible to go from -6A to 6? I ask because at some later date I *will*
>obtain taildragger training (as I have always wanted to do). If I find I
prefer
>it, I think I could convert the -6A to -6 by switching engine mounts/legs and
>adding the tailwheel (and associated structure). Possibility, or am I missing
>something?
>
>Thanks, and I look forward to participating here as a builder, finally!
>
>Rob.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Scratch vs Kits: Cost Analysis Required |
>Aluminium and hardware cost heaps more in Australia than in the USA,
>so I'd as much info as possible in order to rework the figures in
>Aussie dollars.
>We all know the kits are the way to go, but this guy just has to
>convince an unknowing employer.
Is his employer factoring in construction TIME? I mean, I would make a
conservative guess that scratch building would add at LEAST another 2000
hours. Also, due to the volume that Van's purchases in, I doubt that you
would save much buying in the tiny quantities for one airplane. I don't have
any hard figures though. (big help, huh?)
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RAINPOOF(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Boeing Surplus |
What is the address and the times that they are opened at Boeing surplus? I
live in Redmond, Wa.
Jerry Engel
Rainpoof(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | anyone know of a -6a flipping over? |
I believe that the below story is about a plane which crashed at RNT
airport. I saw the plane in a hangar (what was left of it). It was a
sad and total wreck. Just to give some more details, the hangar talk
went like this: The pilot was used to landing "directly" on the numbers
at RNT. He was coming in to land at runway 33 which has the mythical
50 foot obstacle at the far south end. He caught some severe sink and
dropped just in front of the obstacle (he hit the ground before the
300' displaced threshold). When he bounced back up into the air, he
gave full power for a go-around. His prop acceleration was so sudden
(wooden prop) that he did a torque roll to the left, caught the left
wingtip on the ground and flipped over.
Then again, this could be a different
seattle-area-RV-on-its-back-whack. All I really know is that I saw a
wrecked plane in a hangar, and heard a bunch of pilot tell tale...
-Mike
RV-8 tail kit on the way!
----------
From: ammeterj.seanet.com!ammeterj(at)matronics.com[SMTP:ammeterj.seanet.
com!ammeterj(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 1996 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: anyone know of a -6a flipping over?
> With all of the talk of how to escape from a RV-4 or -6, has anyone
>ever heard of an accident where an RV-6a flipped over? I suppose it's
>possible, and since a -6a is what I'm building, I am just curious.
> Mark LaBoyteaux
> RV-6a riviting forward bottom
> tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com
>
>
I know of a 6A that flipped on landing near Seattle about a year or so
ago.
The pilot had some difficulty with the landing and on the second or
third
bounce/porpoise rolled left and caught a wingtip on the runway. The
plane
rolled upside down and slid off the runway to the left. It came to
rest
with the VS crunched down (up?) 3 to 5 inches. If you were to draw a
straight line from the shortened VS to the flywheel you'll know how far
the
'roll bar' was crushed in. Both the pilot and passenger are fairly
short
people but they both suffered head and neck injuries. There was no
fire but
the passenger received fuel chemical burns. She was not removed from
the
aircraft until after 15 to 20 minutes.
The roll bar may have held if the plane hadn't been sliding down the
runway
as it rolled over. Obviously, the plexiglas shattered on impact.
Mark,
I have to ask--- How do you pronounce your last name? Please tell me
it
isn't pronounced La boy toy!!
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New builder (and RV-6A/6 conversion) |
I'm a low-time (less that 200 hrs TT) private pilot that had my primary
training in a taildragger (Aeronca 7AC) years ago. IMHO the whole
tailwheel/nosewheel thing is much overblown. A tailwheel airplane is
different but not impossible to fly without being a superhuman pilot. Just
look how many thousands of 18 and 19 year old kids learned to fly P-51s and
the like in WWII in about a year or so. And almost 100% of their time was
spent in in taildraggers.
So, build what you want. Get some taildragger instruction and go fly. I've
never taxied an RV but have flown in several and everyone says they are not
difficult on the ground. I don't wnat to land mine in 30 kt crosswind
conditions anyway.
There is nothing wrong with a -6 or -6A - it is YOUR choice - what a country!
Richard Bibb
RV-4 - glad the weather is warm so painting can be completed!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dcahoon(at)intellinet.com (David Cahoon) |
| Subject: | Air vents in wing |
About two weeks ago I requested and recieved a good article on placing the
cockpit air source in the wing with a NASA tyope vent. I received the info
but at the time could not print it. Now I have lost the mail. Can someone
who has this please send it to dcahoon(at)intellinet.com. It was listed on the
list as canopy vents or cockpit vents.
Thank you. David Cahoon - RV-4 installing canopy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Chat- Sun&Fun return |
> S & F comment--- I think the arrival procedure is really poor and may
> have contributed to the deaths of three people on Fri. They wanted you to
> fly a really close-in downwind which all but eleminated a base leg. It was
> more like a 180 degree turn onto final. A Piper, with three people, seems
> to have overshot final and stalled while banking steeply to get lined back
> up. (Disclaimer---the proceding is the consenses of laymen, not NSTB or
> FAA) Anyway, I talked to several pilots who did as I did. They made their
> downwind farther away from the runway so they had time to establish a good
> base and a proper turn onto final. Well, I could go on, but it wouldn't
> surprise me if the arrival procedure might be cited in the NSTB report as
> one of the factors contributing to this tragic accident.
>
Bob,
My 12 year old son and I witnesses this accident. I agree that the
procedure contributed to this accident. It happened as you described
- the left wing dropped and it spun in. I thought it happened on the
base to final turn, but overshooting would be the obvious reason to
overbank. The impact was to the left of 9L.
They hit pretty hard and there was no movement inside the airplane
that I cold see from my vantage point before the fire 30 seconds later.
Before the fire, the cabin was pretty much intact, although inverted.
I was still sitting in the Cheetah in the camprgound. I landed 5 minutes
earlier and there was about 5 to 10 knot TAILWIND. ATC was obviously
reluctant to turn the procedure around to use 27 - all the written
material referenced landing on 9.
But they turned it around several times through the weekend.
I had made a continuous 180 to the threshold and remember considering
going around because I was fast - but looked at the ASI and only had
80 knots.
I'll bet this pilot had his eyes outside the airplane. He obviously
didn't watch his airspeed close enough.
Someone on Compuserve said that they knew the pilot and he had
very little time in this airplane.
Sorry to take up the list's bandwidth, but please be careful out
there.
Mickey Baker | RV6 Empennage
mbaker(at)gate.net | Building spars
KC4ZU PP-ASEL-IA Cheetah N9856U |
"Men should pause for ONE MOMENT and take another LONG HARD LOOK
at the very thing that brings meaning to their meaningless lives."
-B. Breathed
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Mattituck Break-in Proc. |
If you haven't received the subject from me when you get this, contact me
again. My level of ignorance on this e-mail stuff is out of sight! What I
did was send(forward) to one name and CC: to another, thinking that it would
take only half of time and space. If the internet goes down, blame me and
my experimenting into areas that I know nothing about.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BHamlin1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Scratch vs Kits: Cost Analysis Required |
Jesus, who does this guy work for, and how can I get a job there!
________________________________________________________________________________
I am starting to plan sealing my fuel tanks and am wondering what you all are
using to mix the proseal....at the correct ratio of 10:1 . I have looked at
the simple beam scale but have yet to come up with one which I feel is accurate
enough....any suggestions ?
--
|Fidonet: Marc Degirolamo 1:140/15
|Internet: Marc.Degirolamo@140-15.mx1.fidonet.org
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his/her own.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Boeing Surplus |
They are on the East Valley Highway one light north of 212th. Go south on 167
from Renton and exit at 212th, west to East Valley, North one light, left
into the lot
They are open Tues-Fri 11-6 & Sat 9-4
Phone is 206-393-4060
If you work for Boeing, take your id - you'll get a 10% discount.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Elevator deflection |
RV-6 - I mounted the rh elevator to the stab for the first time yesterday and
found that the hole to be drilled from the stab center bearing into the
control horn would have had the AN4 bolt/washers/nut riding the weldment on
the horn. I was concerned about moving the elevator aft to get clearance so I
called Van's. The answer I got was to move the elevator aft (unscrew the rod
end bearings) just enough to clear the weld. I also found that the gap
between the horn and the bearing on the stab is in the order of 0.25 in so
that the AN4 bolt supplied won't be long enough if the lh elevator gap is the
same. Van's said to fill the gap between the horns and bearing and the
push/pull tube end bearing and horns with washers or suitable spacers - no
gaps allowed. A neighbor is on his wing kit and suggested that I not drill
the holes in the horn until the tail is on the fuse - any comments??? From
what I've read here I won't worry about elevator travel until I mount the
tail although it looks like I'll have the 20 to 25 deg travel with only minor
filing of the stab spar lower flange. Another minor thing - I have one of the
early pre punched tail kits and the AN3 bolts to attach the elevator counter
weights are not in the kit so I'll purchase these locally along with a longer
AN4 for the elevator center bearing. I visited Omak Aircraft Salvage this
week to see what they had? I got representative preices for various things
I'll pass on if anyone is interested. Looks like a possible source for
instruments - not much for "modern" avionics though they said they do get
some but they are gone quick. They have 20 to 30 acres of bent spam cans up
to light twins.
Mike Talley
RV-6 (A?)
wing kit coming in June(?)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
>
>I am starting to plan sealing my fuel tanks and am wondering what you all are
>using to mix the proseal....at the correct ratio of 10:1 . I have looked at
>the simple beam scale but have yet to come up with one which I feel is accurate
>enough....any suggestions ?
>--
> |Fidonet: Marc Degirolamo 1:140/15
> |Internet: Marc.Degirolamo@140-15.mx1.fidonet.org
> | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his/her own.
Marc: I used a piece of scrap 2 x 2 and attached two pieces of scrap
aluminum in the center extending above the 2 x 2 on each side. I drilled #
30 holes in each piece to put a long (broken) #40 drill bit through. I made
a support frame out of a 2x4 and screwed two pieces of plywood to it and
drilled a couple of holes in the plywood to suspend the 2x2 from. In other
words, made a balance beam scale. I put 10 pennies in one "Dixie" cup, 100
pennies in another and placed them on the beam until they balanced. I then
drew circles around the cups so I would know where to place the proseal cups
later. Before I mixed proseal (or resin---different locations and different
color circles because of different mixing ratios), I always placed the cups
of pennies on the 2x2 and cheked level with a little circular bubble level.
I also used the bubble level to fine tune the balance, removed the pennies
and started mixing proseal. Bob Skinner
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Acker <75104.3077(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: New builder (and RV-6A/6 conversion) |
Thanks to all who responded to my query. I sure did not mean to start up the
old tailwheel vs. nosewheel debate(s)! Some things I learned from your
responses so far:
1) The RV series does have a deserved reputation as an "easy" taildragger.
2) After I finish either version I would never get around to converting it.
3) Taildragger pilots seem to really enjoy them.
4) Some people actually prefer the looks of the 6A on the ground .
I'm off to the airport to get some tailwheel instruction. I plan on moving out
of the city and having my own grass or dirt strip someday, so the taildragger
would be more appropriate.
Cheers,
Rob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terryg(at)SceptreCal.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM |
For those of you using Simple Green as a degreaser, are you using it
full stregth or diluted? In the case of the latter, what ratio?
Cheers...
Terry in Calgary
S/N 24414
"Skinning Horizontal Stabilizer"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rbusick(at)nmsu.edu (Robert Busick) |
| Subject: | Re: Proseal Proportions |
>I am starting to plan sealing my fuel tanks and am wondering what you all are
>using to mix the proseal....at the correct ratio of 10:1 . I have looked at
>the simple beam scale but have yet to come up with one which I feel is accurate
>enough....any suggestions ?
Marc
The fun and games are about to begin. A few suggestions that
worked very well for me.
1. Keep the tanks and ribs etc clean. I washed them with soap and water,
sanded with scothcbrite pads, cleaned with lacquer thinner, allumipreped
and alodined. All before proseal. The key here is: Clean, Clean and
Clean somemore.
2. Get lint free paper towels and cut a bunch of 3X5 strips. Use these to
clean up all mistakes with the proseal immediately. Keep yourself, tools
and everthing else clean, or else you will find proseal everwhere in the
house, car, refrigerator etc.
3. Mix only enough proseal that you can handle at a time, I mixed one
tablespoon of white stuff and 1/4 teaspoon of black stuff. You can weigh
the material but it seemed to be more hassle than it was worth, and the
proportions I used were light on the black stuff. I found that with these
proportions that the proseal was easier to handle and lasted a little
longer before it got too hard to work with. Make sure you really mix the
proseal. I took about 3-5 minutes of severe mixing, until there was
absolutely no white stuff anywhere! The amount of black stuff controls the
speed of the hardening, it you want it to set up faster just add twice as
much black stuff.
4. I found that the above mixture was good for one rib. It took about 90
minutes a rib for me to rivet it all together, remember I cleaned everthing
as I went, except for cleckos.
5. Remember to clean as you go. Keep cutting up and using those 3x5 paper
towel strips.
6. For clecko cleaning I dumped them in a jar of lacquer thinner and
reused them without through cleaning on the next rib.
7. Do one rib at a time. Do not rush the procedure. It took about a
month for me to do both tanks. I would let the previous prosealed rib cure
for about 24-48 hours before I started the next. Do the interior ribs
first and end ribs last. I used a cradle for the tanks and mounted it to
the work bench at a very comfortable height. My workbench was the box that
the wing came in, I just turned it on its side and it works great.
8. Remember to clean as you go. Keep cutting up and using those 3x5 paper
towel strips.
9. To put the proseal on I used a small cake decorating spatula. The tip
was tapered to about 3/8" and it was about 6" long. Check the local
supermarket or cut down a full size one. This allowed me to fillet the
proseal and control it, so it went exactly where I wanted it to go! Don't
even try the popsicle sticks route, I couldn't even get the popsicles
sticks to mix the proseal. The proseal of the ribs looked so good when I
was done, I hated to close up the tank and cover up my handiwork.
10. Remember to clean as you go. Keep cutting up and using those 3x5
paper towel strips.
11. Another hint I heard last night from an A&P-AI, but I have not used,
is to spray WD-40 on your rubber gloves and then use your fingers to smooth
and fillet the proseal. If you have the ace number one tool, a good
spatula, you don't need to do this!
12. Remember to clean as you go. Keep cutting up and using those 3x5
paper towel strips.
11. I used proseal very liberally and almost used two complete cans of
the stuff from Vans. My tanks maybe heavier than others, but they won't
leak! I found that you can not use too much, you can only mix too much. I
used it between the ribs and skin and then sealed the rib flnages with
proseal. I sealed the flanges completly, not just the rivet shop heads. I
figure if you are going to proseal then lets proseal everything in sight
that might possibly contribute to a leak. Sort of anything worth doing is
worth overdoing!
12. I think the key to success is to: Remember to clean as you go. Keep
cutting up and using those 3x5 paper towel strips.
Bob Busick
RV-6
rbusick(at)nmsu.edu
d
________________________________________________________________________________
I am looking at a used IO 360 A2B for my RV-6A. Will this engine fit ok?
Any problems I should be aware of?
Doug
Paradise, Ca.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Acker <75104.3077(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: New builder (and RV-6A/6 conversion) (fwd) |
Don,
>> I bet (but don't know for fact) that more 6s bite the dust from
groundlooping than 6As do from ruts on grass. <<
I think you're probably right.
>> I believe that the reason so many people prefer the looks of the 6 to the 6A
is because of the taildragger hype. <<
Hmmm....interesting thought. Myself, there's airplanes that look "right" with
tri-gears, some with tailwheels, and some in either configuration. Emotions and
looks do play a role...as Cessna found out with swept tails.
Rob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Left elevator measurement goof |
Well, I'm speed-dialing Van's, trying to punch through the busy signal. On
the assumption I'm not going to make it before whoever there goes home for
the weekend, I thought I would also post my dilemma for all to hear. Maybe
someone can help.
Last night, while fitting the left elevator skin and skeleton together in
the jig, I realized I goofed on one of the measurements. On the inboard
end, when measuring for the location of the spar, I didn't subtract the 3/8
inch for the bend on the bottom side of the skin. All other fore/aft
measurements are from this point, and are thus wrong. Of course, I
discovered this AFTER the stiffeners and such are all riveted in place.
The only real problem are the stiffeners between the front spar and rear
spars -- up to the cutout for the trim tab. The stiffeners extend too
far aft, interferring with the rear spar. The stiffener rib where the
trim cable exits the elevator is also a problem.
I figure I have two options:
1. Start over. I don't particularly care for this option.
2. Shorten the 3 stiffeners involved and re-drill the stiffener rib.
3. Replace 3 stiffeners and the rib.
I *think* I could redrill the stiffener rib. I think I have to offset it
sufficiently that I would have edge clearance between rivets. However, I
would have twice as many holes in it as I'm supposed to.
I don't think I can shorten it.
Comments?
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-595-9690(w)
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
435 Ford Rd, Suite 315
St. Louis Park, Mn 55426 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Left elevator measurement |
To answer my own question, and to let everyone else know in case they do
this -- I talked to Van's. Once I sufficiently described my problem, he
told me I could do what I wanted to do. Namely -- shorten everything that's
too far aft.
He told me "be very careful". He suggested I shorted the stiffeners by
slipping a scape piece of aluminum between it and the skin. I pointed out
access would improve if I drilled out one or two rivets.
He also said I could shorten the stiffener rib for the pushrod exit. "It
won't reach the spar." Make an extension. "It'll be non-standard, but I
don't think that's a problem. Make sure you don't get any creases between
the stiffeners and the spar."
So folks -- double-check those measurements. I drew out my elevator one
night when I was obviously not all there, and had to fix a bunch of lines
the next night when I looked it over again. I never checked this one, though.
It's such an EASY measurement, after all.
If you can, get someone else to check things, too. If I had done that, they
would (probably) have caught this problem.
Luckily, I think the impact is only going to be a few hours. At least I don't
have to do it all over.
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-595-9690(w)
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
435 Ford Rd, Suite 315
St. Louis Park, Mn 55426 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Grubb" <Mike_Grubb(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | New builder (Chatter) |
Congratulations Rob!
We spoke at S-N-F just before your flight in the plastic plane (Europa). Just
to let you know about the -6, I flew the factory demonstrator on Tuesday
morning over at Winterhaven. Although I am a 130 hr nose dragger pilot (with
some glider time lately) I feel the taildragger is the way to go. The -6
seems to be very docile on the ground. Although Tom (THANKS FOR THE RIDE TOM)
did the landing it seemed effortless even with the winds the way they were
(Tuesday started out very sh**ty). I feel I could land this plane even with
the limited glider-type taildragger time I have (except for getting over the
1000 fpm descent - 80mph - full flap final).
For those of you who haven't flown an RV yet - GO DO IT!
Sorry to you guys who are already building/flying - but there are some of us
lurking out here who are using lists such as these to make decisions as to
which plane to build.
Mike Grubb
Mike_Grubb(at)msn.com
Workshop being built this summer...
I'm buying a kit next year at S-N-F!!! (Unless I get my wife's house remodeled
before then)
Back to Lurking.
P.S. Bob Skinner - nice RV-6! It was nice to meet the guy we all see so much
of on the list.
----------
>From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Robert Acker
> have officially gone from lurker/wannabe to builder! Just returned from
>sun'n'fun, where I ordered a RV-6 (uh...actually I rationalized myself, with
the
>help of a few builders, into the 6A) Quickbuild kit! I met a lot of RV
flyers
>and builders, including some on the RV-list, which was really great (thanks
>guys!).
>
>Rob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New builder (and RV-6A/6 conversion) |
Rob, we only get one go around- if you really think you prefer a
taildragger, go for it. I'm living proof that anyone can do it. I learned in
a T-6, then a P-51. Didn't learn for 40 years that it was suppose to be
difficult. In 92 I was looking at a Quickie to buy, the guy scaired me off
with how hard it was to fly a 'taildragger'. That was the first I knew I
had been so damned stupid to learn in one. In about 10 minutes in the RV6,
it all came back, just like never forgetting how to ride a bike, you may get
rusty, but you never forget.
As for flipping over, I suggest you never fly a plane that you plan to flip,
have engine failure, brake failure, oxygen failure, or anything that might
be dangerous. That way, you can live longer to not enjoy life:-).
Like I said, if I can, anyone can.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Mark, The scale doesn't have to be a work of art. I pretty much used what
the book recommended. A bar (I had a piece of stuff that use to be screwed
to the wall that you could hook shelf hangers on), marked it 2 in on one
side of a point, and 20 in the other. Then had a nail through the ref.
point. Made two hangy down plates of sheet alum. and wire. Cut them and
added wt until balanced, then cut out two pieces of sheet alum. to use as
'pallettes' to measure, balanced them. Then put the black stuff on the long
end, white on the short, balance it and then scrape the black off with a
pop. stick and mix. The pop. sticks worked great for me, even and old
skinflint like me didn't mind throwing them away after each use.
Incidentally, I used less than half of what was in the can. After about two
or three mixes, you can tell by the color if it is the right blend, I would
call it battle ship grey. Now, if there is more than one color of battle
ship grey, forget I said that.
I know someone said that the pop. sticks broke, or wouldn't even mix the
stuff, I must have had a peculiar batch, it sure worked fine for me, I used
them to apply, spread, and smooth the stuff. I cleaned the mixing plates
after each batch (used acetone from the local hardware store), but threw
away the pop. sticks.
I don't cotton to the idea of alumprep etc before you do this. In the
instruc. I had in my book, it said clean bare metal. If the metal has been
properly roughed up, cleaned, cleaned and cleaned, it sticks great. Most all
that I read says proseal to metal, not some kind of prep. This is purely my
opinion, maybe Vans has changed the instruc. by now. My tanks are two years
old, were sloshed, and are still holding fuel (both 100ll and auto), no
weeps or anything. Initially, there was a pin hole in the left outer end
rib, I cleaned, cleaned, and cleaned, daubed on some proseal from the
outside, and that was that.
Didn't mean to go on so.
Hope this at least gives you some idea.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Simple Green |
> For those of you using Simple Green as a degreaser, are you using it
> full stregth or diluted? In the case of the latter, what ratio?
>
> Cheers...
>
> Terry in Calgary
Terry,
Simple green is the best degreaser you can use on the Fish Oil coated
aluminum parts. (IMHO) I use the stuff full strength and keep it in a 99 cent
spray bottle.
Gary Zilik
RV-6A s/n 22993 Fusalage on hold.
Building a bigger RV factory.
________________________________________________________________________________
>I am starting to plan sealing my fuel tanks and am wondering what you all
are
>using to mix the proseal....at the correct ratio of 10:1 . I have looked at
>the simple beam scale but have yet to come up with one which I feel is
>accurate
>enough....any suggestions ?
Mark,
I started building a simple 10 to one scale when I remembered that in the
laundry room shelving was an Ohous triple beam gram scale. This worked
wonderfull. Since I had just had my tonsils removed I had been eating lots of
pre-made jello that came in little clear plastic cups. I also consumed about
10k pop-sickles so I had lots of stiks and cups to mix with. I would glob
out about a golf ball size wad of the white stuff with one of the sticks and
weigh this in the scale. If the weight was 34 grams after subtracting the
tar weight of the cup, all I had to do was simple math (34/10 = 3.4) . Slide
the scale weight +3.4 grams and add the black stuff until the scale was back
to zero.
This was a very precise measure of the components because I had the equipment
to do so. Measuring by volume would work just as well, just remember to never
overdo the amount of black catalist. The stuff can set up real fast if you
put to much catalist in it. Being on the short side of the black stuff will
only mean that it will take longer to cure. Even with my precise
measurements it still took 2 months for the tanks to quit smelling at which
time I figured the stuff was fully cured.
Gary Zilik
RV-6A s/n 22993
Building a Bigger Factory.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harold Sutphin <hsutphin(at)magicnet.net> |
| Subject: | RV3 Restriction/Modification |
I saw this posting in the US Aviator announcements
(http://www.us-aviator.com/news/hotnews.htm). It looks like the RV-3 has
a retrofit ahead. Does not affect 4, 6, 6A or 8.
Harold
RV-6A
Van's RV-3/3A Flight Restriction Advisory
Van's Aircraft has just published a "Flight Restriction" advisory
concerning their RV-3 single place SportPlane kit. Several of their
previous tests
and engineering studies showed that a correctly built RV-3/3A wing met
design goals. However; Van's Aircraft Inc recently performed a static
load
test of an RV-3/3 A wing. The test demonstrated a compression buckling
strength of 7.3 G. This is a lower load than the previous testing and
calculations had indicated. A spar alteration has been designed and
tested. Modification material kits are being prepared and will be
provided free
of cost to all RV-3/3A owners/builders.
Notices have been sent to all known RV-3/3A owners/builders instructing
them to avoid aerobatic flight and to operate within Utility Category
(4.4G) limits until the modification has been accomplished. Flight
operations at or below Utility Category limits can be conducted with an
adequate
margin of safety. The design of the RV-3/3A wing differs significantly
from the RV-4, RV-6/6A and RV-8 wings and this restriction does not
apply
to those aircraft.
Any owners, pilots, or builders of RV-3 or RV-3A aircraft who have not
received this notice are asked to contact Van's Aircraft Inc, POB 160,
North Plains, OR 97133; (503) 647-5117; fax (503) 647-2206.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: New builder (and RV-6A/6 conversion) |
> >I do prefer the looks of the -6. I can still change my order...so all you
> >taildraggers please speak up. If RV-3/4/6's really are "pussycats" on the
> >ground I would rather build the -6.
I agonized over this until finally ordering my fuselage kit. By that time
I had my taildragger checkout in a Citabria and decided that taildraggers
are for me. They *are* more fun, no question. So, I ordered the -6.
The weaknesses of taildraggers only start to show up when the conditions
get extreme IMHO. When I am landing at an unfamiliar airport with the
tower reporting 15-20 knot gusting crosswinds, I might be wishing for a
nosewheel at that point. Or, I could just find another airport with less
of a crosswind, fuel permitting.
> >Is it possible to go from -6A to 6? I ask because at some later date I *will*
> >obtain taildragger training (as I have always wanted to do). If I find I
> prefer
> >it, I think I could convert the -6A to -6 by switching engine mounts/legs and
> >adding the tailwheel (and associated structure). Possibility, or am I missing
> >something?
I think this would be easier that going the other way (6 to 6A). You
would need the new motor mount, a new F-612 (last bulkhead in the
fuse), the tailwheel assembly, and new main gear legs (I think). It would
be a lot of work and expense though, unless you find a buyer for your
surplus 6A parts.
I highly recommend you spend a few hours on a taildragger checkout ASAP,
then the decision will be an easy one ;-)
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
For you all who are about to begin sealing your tanks there's one
other point you may want to cover before you begin back-riveting your
tank stiffners. Wrap a rag or handkerchief around the discharge port
of your rivet gun. If you periodically lubricate your air tools
you'll find the gun will spray a fine mist of oil on the perfectly
clean tank skin as you back rivet the stiffners and could corrupt the
adhesion of the proseal.
chet razer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
Just in case anyone is interested, which I doubt anyone is:-)I have
changed my email address from *jerryflyrv(at)aol.com* to
*jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com*
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS first flight July 14,1989
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Acker <75104.3077(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | New builder (Chatter) |
>> We spoke at S-N-F just before your flight in the plastic plane (Europa). <<
Thanks a lot Mike. Now everyone here knows that I considered, and even flew in,
a plastic airplane. This will follow me forever .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Acker <75104.3077(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: New builder (Chatter) |
John,
>> As for flipping over, I suggest you never fly a plane that you plan to flip,
have engine failure, brake failure, oxygen failure, or anything that might be
dangerous. That way, you can live longer to not enjoy life:-). <<
Well, I don't "plan" on crashing my car...but I wear a seat belt anyway. I
don't "plan" on having a main canopy failure when skydiving...but I have a
reserve anyway.
I don't think its wise to not plan for eventualities I may have some control
over surviving...that way I can still be around for the next crazy thing I do to
enjoy my life . Just my viewpoint.
Rob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Francis S. Smidler" <102776.1474(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | New builder (Chatter) |
>Sorry to you guys who are already building/flying - but there are some of us
l>urking out here who are using lists such as these to make decisions as to
>which plane to build.
>
>Mike Grubb
>Mike_Grubb(at)msn.com
Mike, there is absolutely no reason to appologize. I think it's great that all
the RV builder wannabes can utilize the resources of the list to make a decision
that will be expensive, time consuming and the greatest experience that you
will ever accomplishe (after your children of course). One of the greatest
parts of building an RV is talking to new enthusiast, helping them make a
momentus decision to share a common dream and then have them become friends.
Good Luck
Frank Smidler, editor "Hoosier RV Builders Newsletter"
RV-6 fuselage flipped out of jig last Sunday (thanks Bob Japundza)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Wanted to Buy: RV4 |
I would like to buy a well built RV4. Low time airframe, 0-320
Lycoming, either C/S or F/P, avionics and IFR not necessary, must be a
good looker and good flyer. Currently have over 700 hrs in RV3.
Please telephone: Bill Robb 618-758-2350
no e-mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marian K. Rendall or Scott Sawby" <mkr(at)netw.com> |
Mark
Making a scale sounds like a hassle, and I'll bet not very accurate for
small quantities. Measure by volume (different ratio) using syringes. You
can get them at any pharmacy and they are cheap enough you don't have to
bother cleaning them. Get several different sizes (I used mostly 3 1/2 cc
but I had one 50 cc for the large batches) for different size batches of
proseal. Throw the needles away. For the resin you will need to belt sand
the end of the syringe off, making it "cylinder bore", as the resin is too
viscous to suck up through that little nipple. There are some tiny 3/10 cc
insulin syringes that are great for the small quantities of hardener you
need for small batches.
Scott Sawby
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino) |
| Subject: | Re: Wanted to Buy: RV4 |
Well you may not want e-mail, but I am not a broker. If you want a nice
RV-4, YOU'RE
going to have to make the call. I belong to an EAA chapter that has built
two RV-4's and an RV-6. The second RV-4 is for sale. TTSN I beleive is
around 150hrs, engine and airframe. The owner and head builder owns a sheet
metal shop. I beleive he wants 50K for the plane. If you are serious give
him a call.
The owners name is Jim Banks. you can reach him at (717) 421-4136. By the
way, he is also a technical advisor for EAA. Let me know how you make out.
>I would like to buy a well built RV4. Low time airframe, 0-320
>Lycoming, either C/S or F/P, avionics and IFR not necessary, must be a
>good looker and good flyer. Currently have over 700 hrs in RV3.
>
>Please telephone: Bill Robb 618-758-2350
>no e-mail
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bobh(at)synopsys.com (Bob Haan) |
| Subject: | Is PPG DX 503 alodine? |
Is "PPG DX 503 Aluminum Conditioner" alodine?
I am planning on alodining the inside of the wing tanks. When I went to
the automotive paint store to get alodine they said PPG DX 503 was the only
alodine they had but no where on the bottle does it say alodine. Under
Contains it says, "CHromium Compounds. This product contains a slightly
soluble form of a chromium (6+) compound."
Also on the label, "Aluminum Conditioner DX 503 produces a light gold to
tan chemical conversion coating on aluminum which provides improved
corrision resistance and paint adhesion."
Before using it I would like to be sure that this is alodine.
Thanks in advance for the expertise of the RV Net,
Bob Haan
Portland, OR
RV6-A both wings in the jigs LEs Riveted on
bobh(at)synopsys.com
Evenings 503-636-3550
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Acker <75104.3077(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: New builder (and RV-6A/6 conversion) |
>> Won't you still have to pay for crating? <<
Nope, Van's said bring something 16' long, enclosed, and save yourself the
crating charge. The complete quickbuild kit basically consists of the
wing/tail/fuse kits pre-built, and a standard finishing kit. I don't have an
engine yet so could not specify a finishing kit choice.
So I will be picking up a fuselage, empennage, wings, a couple of wing skins and
various other pieces of sheet metal and hardware. I'll have the finishing kit
shipped when I need it.
Rob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New builder (Chatter) |
A
>Thanks a lot Mike. Now everyone here knows that I considered, and even
flew in,
>a plastic airplane. This will follow me forever .
>
Robert, in 1969 when assigned to Laughlin I had 3 students, one was Bob
Acker from Penn or Ohio. Is it possible?
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com (Doug Weiler) |
Fellow Listers:
This may already be old news to some, but I just talked with Jerry
VanGrunsven today at MSP airport and he was telling me all about the RV-8
kit developments and also the RV-6/6A fast build kit. I guess Van announced
this at Sun N' Fun so for those who went you already are aware of it.
As was previously mentioned, the RV-8 tail kit is available now for $1145.
Van's new catalog (just out this week) lists the schedule for the other kit
components and when they will be available.
The quickbuild kit is very exciting. There is a photo in Van's new catalog
showing a kit that looks like an airplane. Wings are completed except for
one skin (this is all riveted by the way). Control surfaces completed
except for the rudder. Vertical and horz stab completed. Fuel tanks
completed and sealed. Fuselage is on the gear. Engine mount installed.
Top skins are to be added to the fuselage and canopy must be installed. He
is claiming a 50% reduction in building time and it certainly looks doable.
I guess what is most remarkable is that this is only $8000 more than the
normal kit price ($19,320 for the -6, $19,995 for the -6A).
Jerry said that the predrilling of the RV-8 tail assembly is so complete
that it is not even really necessary to construct a jig except to hold the
components during riveting.
It's good to see some new innovations coming out of Van's and I'm sure these
easier to assemble components will be very popular.
For us "old" builders who are still faced with the endless task of drilling
and riveting a bizillion rivets, we can only grumble!
Doug
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
= Doug Weiler, pres. MN Wing, Van's AirForce, RV-4 in progress, N722DW
= 347 Krattley Lane
= Hudson, WI 54016
= 715-386-1239
= email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Spruell <sspruell(at)ghgcorp.com> |
| Subject: | Is PPG DX 503 alodine? |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB2EF9.D9C32580
Yes (functionally). Greg Bordelon and I are both using it on our 6A's and it works
great. I get a nice, bronze color with it.
----------
From: Bob Haan[SMTP:synopsys.com!bobh(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 1996 8:08 PM
Subject: RV-List: Is PPG DX 503 alodine?
Is "PPG DX 503 Aluminum Conditioner" alodine?
I am planning on alodining the inside of the wing tanks. When I went to
the automotive paint store to get alodine they said PPG DX 503 was the only
alodine they had but no where on the bottle does it say alodine. Under
Contains it says, "CHromium Compounds. This product contains a slightly
soluble form of a chromium (6+) compound."
Also on the label, "Aluminum Conditioner DX 503 produces a light gold to
tan chemical conversion coating on aluminum which provides improved
corrision resistance and paint adhesion."
Before using it I would like to be sure that this is alodine.
Thanks in advance for the expertise of the RV Net,
Bob Haan
Portland, OR
RV6-A both wings in the jigs LEs Riveted on
bobh(at)synopsys.com
Evenings 503-636-3550
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wanted to Buy: RV4 |
Jim, thanks for the info on the RV4. Actually I was posting a message
for a friend (Bill Robb) who doesn't own a computer so he has no
access to e-mail. I'll pass your message on to him
thanks
chet
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pmc123(at)airmail.net |
Just today got on the internet. Received this address from a friend. Have a "6"
under construction and looking to exchange info with other builders. Is this
the right place for such?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Acker <75104.3077(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | New builder (Chatter) |
>> Robert, in 1969 when assigned to Laughlin I had 3 students, one was Bob
Acker from Penn or Ohio. Is it possible? <<
Not me. I see my last name very infrequently...that someone has the same first
name is quite a longshot!
Rob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 builders |
| From: | snoopyar(at)usa.pipeline.com (Davi Howard) |
You bet! Welcome.
Davi
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Fuel Tank Leaks |
This is an inquiry for a friend who is not on the net. His Rv6
right fuel tank is weaping on the underside along the rear row of
screws, and the left tank is weaping along the top at some of the screws.
I recall reading of some success had by applying a negative pressure
to the tank and dabbing some thinned pro-seal externally in the area of the
leak or leaks. Could someone please respond with the relevent details;
i.e. how much neg. pressure, and how to thin the pro-seal etc.
Your advice will be most appreciated.
Thank You...!
Ron Vandervort, Building rudder RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 builders |
airmail.net!pmc123(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Just today got on the internet. Received this address from a friend. Have a
"6"
> under construction and looking to exchange info with other builders. Is this
> the right place for such?
yes, just follow the daily postings and you'll be amazed at the
information you pick up
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Acker <75104.3077(at)CompuServe.COM> |
I stopped by Don George Engines at Sun'n'fun. They are selling 0 SMOH O-320's
for $13,500 (outright with hollow crank, carburated, all accessories except
alternator).
Seems this firm has a good rep on the list, how about the price? I suspect in
about six months or so (Quickbuild kit), I'll have to have chosen an engine type
to order the proper finish kit, so I've started looking.
Oh, I forgot to ask him if they were H2AD's . Speaking of which, Avery had
a notice up indicating a source for H2AD's, runout, for $2700. I've just heard
too many horror stories with this engine, the overhaul cost seems to be higher,
and you have to modify the engine mount.
Comments?
Rob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 builders |
>Just today got on the internet. Received this address from a friend. Have
a "6"
>under construction and looking to exchange info with other builders. Is this
>the right place for such?
>
Yes it is. Don't forget to sign your name so we know who we're talking too.
Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen) |
---- Begin Forwarded Message
(8.6.13/SMI-4.1/Netcom)
(8.6.12/SMI-4.1)
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 12:42:38 -0800
From: Leo Davies <icn.su.OZ.AU!leo(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Escape
>REGARDING Escape
>
>Excellent suggestion about using a pointed tool to start the canopy
crack.
>
>A miners hammer has one end about 3/4" square and a long tapered point
on the
>other end. Welding a square pad to the square end would provide the
flat
>spot for pounding with your fist (as suggested by others). I have
seen them
>in some hardware stores and every gold (or mining) shop. -Elon
>
>
I would kind of like to see a risk analysis between flying aerobatics
with
ten pound lumps of pointy steel in the cockpit and the chances of
needing to
make an exit from an upside down aeroplane with an intact cockpit.
Leo
_____________________
I just had occasion to see an RV-4. They had the optional front
baggage compartment. In it was a little tool kit which included a
small ball peene hammer. I was rather curious why they would cart
around a heavy hammer. After seeing all this discussion about escaping
on the RV-list, I now understand. Every tool, including the hammer
were neatly held in place with little clamps so they could not come
loose and fly around.
Peter B. Mortensen.
____________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luism(at)ibm.net (Luis Madsen) |
>I am looking at a used IO 360 A2B for my RV-6A. Will this engine fit ok?
> Any problems I should be aware of?
>
>Doug
>Paradise, Ca.
>
>
I have a IO360 C1C it has a wide sump with rear injector. It dont fit the
the engine mount and no exhaust fit it and a RV. ( info source Vettemann)
I have had to move the injector and will have to make a exhaust system.
If you need more info send direct with your addresse.
Luis Madsen, Denmark
luism(at)ibm.net
luism(at)ibm.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry C. McClung" <mcclung(at)ionet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 builders |
Hey Judge; glad to see you made it. You are in the right pew so
expect a full mailbox every day.....Bud
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | frankv(at)pec.co.nz |
>I just had occasion to see an RV-4. They had the optional front
>baggage compartment. In it was a little tool kit which included a
>small ball peene hammer. I was rather curious why they would cart
>around a heavy hammer. After seeing all this discussion about
>escaping on the RV-list, I now understand. Every tool, including
>the hammer were neatly held in place with little clamps so they
>could not come loose and fly around.
Nor cause a worrying rattle in flight, I guess. In the -4, the
hammer's weight would help move the CG forward too.
Good idea, but a couple of things to think about...
How strong are these little clamps, and how much force is needed to
remove the hammer, and in what direction? Remember that when pulling
5G, the hammer will "weigh" 5 times as much, and will be trying to
pull itself loose in different directions from normal.
Secondly, how accessible is the front baggage compartment? How
accessible will it be when you're upside down with a stuck canopy, and
maybe a twisted airframe? What about the guy in the back if the pilot
can't move?
Personally, I'd go for something like what Cessnas (at least, the
one's I've flown in) have: the tomahawk escape tool has a couple of
holes drilled through the handle. It fits onto two pins mounted on the
aircraft floor. These pins each have a hole drilled through them. A
piece of wire about a foot long (P/N 12-4393-1593, $75 :-) is threaded
through the holes in the floor pins, keeping the tomahawk secured.
Or maybe aim to have an escape hatch in the floor... use undersized
rivets on the belly pan, guys. :-)
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Elevator deflection |
Yes, Omak has engines. Last week when I was there they had 3 or 4 O-320's and
O-360s in various states of useability. They have the data on the engine -
what it came out of, hours etc. etc. They also have MANY components - cases,
cranks etc etc. They said they have a good turn over on the engines so you
may want to call and check. I don't think they will take info on what you
want and call you if something comes in. They are located right on the
airport - you can taxi up to their door.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Sensenich metal prop |
To: Anyone with experience mounting the Sensincih FP metal prop. For
fitting the Van's spinner, drilling it onto the front and rear bulkheads,
I'll need to fit the rear bulkhead between the spacer and prop. To take the
assembly apart so that I can install nutplates, paint, etc. requires you to
punch the pins out with a not over 7/16" punch and the paper work that comes
with the prop says that this is a tight fit and will require a lot of
pounding, which I'm a little reluctant to do. Does anyone have any
experience with this? I've considered using the old wood prop extension as
it is the same thickness as the Sensenich spool type extension. This would
eleminate fooling with the pin pounding. Does anyone see any problem with this?
I was surprised to see that the drive connection between the spacer and
the prop was just two steel pins. I would have thought that the spacer
would have had lugs on it that went into the lug holes already drilled in
the prop.
Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mattituck Break-in Proc. |
>If you haven't received the subject from me when you get this, contact me
>again. My level of ignorance on this e-mail stuff is out of sight! What I
>did was send(forward) to one name and CC: to another, thinking that it would
>take only half of time and space. If the internet goes down, blame me and
>my experimenting into areas that I know nothing about.
>John D
>John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
>johnd@our-town.com
>
John, It worked fine, thanks. Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HBenjamin(at)gnn.com (Harold Benjamin) |
Hello all. Heard about rv-list from Van at Sun N Fun. Looks good!
I'm building an rv-4 here in Tallahassee FL. Working on wings.
Built my spars & now getting ready to attach the skins.
Anyone know the best place to run wires for wing tip lighting?
Ever installed wing tip type landing lights?
Looking forward to trading info! Talk to you soon.
Hal Benjamin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Pop rivet question |
Hi Folks,
I have been looking through my manuals and must be looking in the wrong
place.
Can anyone tell me the difference between an AD-42-BS pop rivet and an
MD-42-BS pop rivet? If different and one is stronger or superior to
the other, can you tell me which one? (Question is related to mounting
elevator trim control horn with electric trim for RV-6.) Thanks for
any help guys and gals.
Best regards,
Bill Costello
--
___ _____________________________
\ \ _ _ / /
\ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello Chicago \
X-*#####*******......./ N97WC (reserved) /
o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on left elev. \
\__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com /
\____________________________\
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Williams <terry(at)ouijibo.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Comparable experience |
I am wondering what rental airplanes would be comparable to flying
an RV. I am not building yet and nearly all of my time is in
airplanes that barely go 115 mph. So, as I am getting my currency in
order this summer and as I add to my previous 120 hours, what
airplanes would you recommend that I try to get a feel for what it
is like to fly an RV?
I will most likely get my currency and tail wheel endorsement in a
Cub or a Citabria, but I believe they are fairly slow and docile. It
seems from some of the other email on the list that it might be
easy for a low-timer to get behind an RV. I would like to be a
little prepared if it is necessary.
Do you folks have any suggestions? How about the Grumman gang
(AA-1, Traveler/Cheetah, Tiger[$$$$])? I might be able to find a
PA-18-150.
What ever it is, hopefully I can find one to rent.
I really like all of the RV aircraft, but I have a real soft spot
for the RV-4. I will be sad to see the RV-4 get replaced by the
RV-8. Don't get me wrong, I think the RV-8 is a very fine airplane.
I guess there is something about the RV-3 & 4 that reminds me of
days gone by.
Keep your cheeks in the breeze (your face cheeks that is). ;)
tw
terry_williams(at)is.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Comparable experience |
You wrote:
>
>I am wondering what rental airplanes would be comparable to flying
>an RV.
>terry_williams(at)is.com
>
Hi Terry,
You'll probably get responses to this from people who have much more
experience that I, but I will still throw in my 2 cents worth.
I have flown Pipers up through the Archer, Cessnas through the 182, a
Grumman Tiger, a Bellanca Decathlon and an Aeronca Champ, and one
reason I think there are about 8,000 sets of RV plans our there is that
none of these (or any other rental I have heard of) even comes CLOSE to
an RV. Got my first demo ride in an RV two years ago at Oshkosh and it
was an absolute blast. Since then I have flown 3 times (and counting)
with Dick Gross here in Chicago suburbs in his RV-6. I guess it is
like the difference between driving a Corvair and a Ferrari. (But have
never driven a Ferrari!)
So, if you can't get to Oshkosh EARLY and get your name on the demo
ride list, or find someone locally who will take you up, then grab your
checkbook and order the empennage kit of your choice! Just kidding
about this last one, Terry. Obviously, only you can decide what you
want to do.
Best regards,
Bill Costello
--
___ _____________________________
\ \ _ _ / /
\ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello Chicago \
X-*#####*******......./ N97WC (reserved) /
o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on left elev. \
\__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com /
\____________________________\
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pilla(at)emmanuel.espinc.com (Michael Pilla) |
| Subject: | Re: Charlier R Hillard (fwd) |
> > > Charlie R. was killed in a crash in Lakeland Fla. Seems he had rebuilt
> > > a WW2 Hawker Sea Fury and modified it for air races. He was landing at a
> > > Lakeland Fla. airshow when, on roll-out, smoke was seen coming from the
> > > wheel well (s). The airplane veered off the runway and flipped over on
> > > its back. Charlie R. was crushed under the airplane. Don't know any more
> > > than that.
I won't speculate on what happened, but the crash literally happened about
100 yards in front of my position. He landed, then there was a puff of smoke
from what appeared to be a wheel, a swerve left/right and over onto its back.
>From what I could see before the rescue folks got there, the vertical stab
was intact, the canopy was intact. I could clearly see his head hanging
upside down and there were several inches of clearance between the top of
the canopy and the runway (had the vertical stab broken off, ...)
I did hear that he was either asyphixiated from "cockpit clutter" or that
his windpipe was crushed from loose cockpit "clutter".
Let's wait to see what the official report was. Needless to say, everyone
is feeling quite distraught.
Mike Pilla
pilla(at)espinc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen) |
| Subject: | anyone know of a -6a flipping over? |
---- Begin Forwarded Message
(8.6.13/SMI-4.1/Netcom)
(8.6.12/SMI-4.1)
From: ix.netcom.com!Tailspin(at)matronics.com
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 19:50:47 +0000
Subject: RV-List: anyone know of a -6a flipping over?
With all of the talk of how to escape from a RV-4 or -6, has anyone
ever heard of an accident where an RV-6a flipped over? I suppose it's
possible, and since a -6a is what I'm building, I am just curious.
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6a riviting forward bottom
tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com
A local RV-6A builder (with his wife), (in the interest of privacy I
will not give their names), botched a landing here at his home airport
in Renton, Washington, and flipped over his RV-6A. Rumer has it that
it slid about 100 feet upside down on the asphalt. Both people
survived with severe head and neck trauma. I visited them in intensive
care. They looked very bad. I believe they both had broken necks. I
don't want to go into further details. Anyway, they somehow amazingly
both healed in about 6 months (lots of scars remain). I would
recommend against flipping an RV-6A over.
Peter B. Mortensen, Renton, WA. n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com
_______________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich metal prop |
> I was surprised to see that the drive connection between the spacer and
>the prop was just two steel pins. I would have thought that the spacer
>would have had lugs on it that went into the lug holes already drilled in
>the prop.
>Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>
>Bob, I've got a f/p metal prop on mine, and I don't remember any such
proplems. I got the ext. from Vans' and the prop is a cut down metal. I'll
revue it and let you know. The front spinner plate, the one in front of the
prop, I remember that I formed it on the edges to recurve so as to fit in
the spinner. The way it came was to be used with a wood prop. Tony
Bengelis had an article a few years back, in Sport Aviation about this.
If I remember correctly, Vans changed the forward plate so that you don't
have to cut out the edges if used with wood, so all of my info may be
outdated now.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd Top Fuse Skin RV-6(A) |
>I've got a question for the builders of an RV-6(A) with a tip-up canopy that
>has finished their A/C. When did you rivet the forward top fuse skin? I
>figure that I have two choices.
>
>1. Rivet it before installing the cowling. This would ensure that the hinge
>pin for the cowling is held firmly in place. It would also leave a smooth
>surface for laying the cowling on during final trimming (no clecoes in the
>way).
>
>2. Install the cowling with this skin clecoed in place. This would allow
>for the removal of the skin for avionics and electrical work within the
>cabin at a later date.
>
>I will be ready for cowling and engine installation in about a month. If
>this skin is to be rivetted prior to cowling installation, I will do it this
>weekend.
>
>Any feedback would be appreciated.
>
>-Scott N506RV
>
>
Scott:
I riveted the front skin AFTER all the electronics were installed. Fact
is, this was the LAST skin that I riveted into place. Do it with the canopy
in place adn you won't have any problems with the canopy hinge alignment.
While constructing the canopy, just leave it colecoed in place. This
represents a bit of a problem for the rivet line closest to the canopy, but
you should be able to get clecoes in from the underside..
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Prop Extension |
>A friend, who is building a RV-6, is ready to fit his cowl but is undecided
>on what prop he is going to use. He has the CS cowl and needs to figure out
>a way to fit the rear spinner bulkhead. He thinks that he may buy the
>Sensenich FP metal prop, but is undecided. Does someone have an idea on
>what to use for a spacer (thickness, etc.), or do you have the proper size
>extension that we could borrow for a while? Any ideas appreciated. Bob
>Skinner RV-6
>Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>
>
>
Bob:
I think that all cowls supplied now are the short, or CS variety. Van
supplies prop extensions for both types.
I constructed a plywood plate that attached to the crank of the engine.
This plate was constructed such that the rear face was EXACTLY where the
front cowl face was suppose to be at. It required a recess for the crank
flange to sit into, so that the rear plate face was at the correct distance
from the front face of the crank flange.
The plywood plate was circular and the same diameter as the spinner. It is
very important that the distance between the spinner rear edge and the crank
flange front face be known so that the plywood plate crank falge recess can
be calculated. You must also add to this the recommended distance (documented
in the plans) between the spinner rear edge and the cowl.
I fitted the top cowl half first, and screwed (sheet rock srews work
well) it to the plywood plate while fitting the lower half. This process
worked quite well......
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE) |
| Subject: | Re: Left elevator measurement goof |
You wrote:
>
>Well, I'm speed-dialing Van's, trying to punch through the busy
signal. On
>the assumption I'm not going to make it before whoever there goes home
for
>the weekend, I thought I would also post my dilemma for all to hear.
Maybe
>someone can help.
>
>Last night, while fitting the left elevator skin and skeleton together
in
>the jig, I realized I goofed on one of the measurements. On the
inboard
>end, when measuring for the location of the spar, I didn't subtract
the 3/8
(SNIP)
Joe,
I'd start over and do it right. If you modify it and make it work it
will haunt you forever. At the point your at, it won't take that much
time to restart. The skin is only around $35.
Ed Cole
ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Rob Acker posted this, concerning a discussion with Don George Engines at
sun and fun:
> Oh, I forgot to ask him if they were H2AD's . Speaking of which, Avery had
> a notice up indicating a source for H2AD's, runout, for $2700. I've just heard
> too many horror stories with this engine, the overhaul cost seems to be higher,
> and you have to modify the engine mount.
>
> Comments?
We've had a Cessna 172 in our flying club for a long time now (7,700+
tach hours). It came with an H2AD. The original engine self
distructed in the normal mode for these engines. If you haven't heard,
this is a cam/lifter problem. The original cam lobes were too narrow
to support the loads of the lifter, and eventually the cam and lifter
self destruct. For a while there were modifications of the case to
accept a different cam/lifter set, but these mods had problems of their
own (cases cracking) and are not permitted now.
The proper cure to these problems is a new case accomodating a
different cam. This was done by Lycomming in the "76T" modification.
When the first engine died on our C172, we bought a 76T engine. The
76T engine has now gone to TBO three times and is quite reliable.
So, yes, there are scare stories about the H2AD engine, some deserved.
However, the latest revisions of the engine are reliable.
Incedentally, our flyclub recently upgraded its 172 with an STC for an
O-360. So, we have our 76T up for sale, if anyone is interested. If
so, please email me directly instead of tying up the rv-list.
That is all.
Hank Eilts
eilts(at)ti.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Lost subscribers |
Two of the subscribers to my newsletter have moved and left no forwarding
address. If anyone knows where they are, please have them send me their new
addresses so that I can get them their April issues. They are Fred Meyer of
Huntley, IL and Dave Hull of Hermosa Beach, CA.
Thanks
Jim Cone, Editor, Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing
422 Savannah Ridge Drive
St. Charles, MO 63303
(314) 928-8703
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dierks(at)austin.ibm.com |
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich metal prop |
Bob, I just went through this.
I first had one of the 'experimental' (ie cut down) metal props
that the Texas wing of Vans airforce is famous for flying.
So I had one of 4 inch extensions that Van's sells which has the
six lugs in the end which fit nicely into the spinner bulkhead and
then into the rear face of the prop.
When I received my new Sensenich metal prop, I was a bit supprized to
find that they were using this method of two steel pins to anchor to
the back of the prop. The main problem that this causes is that the
spinner backing plate IS NOT DRILLED for these extra two holes.
The real problem is how to drill these two holes so the backing plate
stays alligned. Luckly, I had some old prop bushing so what I
did was lay the rear bulkhead in position and slip 3 old prop bushings
into the holes of the bulkhead and into the rear of the prop.
This held the bulkhead in allignment. I then took a 1/2 drill bit and
backdrilled the two new holes. I just layed the prop face up with
some 2x4's under the spinner bulkhead and backdrilled the holes.
These then need deburred.
Someone should call Van's on this. They should be providing these
rear spinner plates pre-drilled with these extra two holes that the
factory sensensich prop needs. That fix this problem.
Reguarding your question about using the old 4 inch extension for initial
fitting. Yes, you can do that. I swithed from my old 4inch extension to
the new one with no problems. Yes, you don't want to have to drive
out those 1/2 steel pins each time to take it apart.
You can guess what this dummy did. I assembled the prop to the extension
the first time and then looked up and there was my rear spinner bulkhead
still laying on the floor. Now I had to drive off the extension to put
the bulkhead on. What I did was took a 1/2 steel bolt that I had and
ground it down on a grinder to get it down to 7/16 and I then used this
to drive out the two steel pins to get the extension off.
I did this all one night at the hangar so I used what I had on hand.
A wood dowl would probably be better if you have to drive it apart.
I was able to use my spinner, rear and front bulkhead with just a little
fileing on the spinner as the spinner rubbed in one area due to a little
more twist on the blade at the hub area. I had already been using one
of the special spinner front bulkheads that Van sells for the metal props
(the metal props are thinner than wood so you need is different front
bulkhead if you have been using a wood spinner).
I like this prop. I tried two expermintal metal props first. One climbed
like crazy but would not cruse very well. The other crused OK but TO and
climb was poor. This factory prop gets off the ground good and climbs
well and cruses good as well.
Herman
> To: Anyone with experience mounting the Sensincih FP metal prop. For
> fitting the Van's spinner, drilling it onto the front and rear bulkheads,
> I'll need to fit the rear bulkhead between the spacer and prop. To take the
> assembly apart so that I can install nutplates, paint, etc. requires you to
> punch the pins out with a not over 7/16" punch and the paper work that comes
> with the prop says that this is a tight fit and will require a lot of
> pounding, which I'm a little reluctant to do. Does anyone have any
> experience with this? I've considered using the old wood prop extension as
> it is the same thickness as the Sensenich spool type extension. This would
> eleminate fooling with the pin pounding. Does anyone see any problem with this?
> I was surprised to see that the drive connection between the spacer and
> the prop was just two steel pins. I would have thought that the spacer
> would have had lugs on it that went into the lug holes already drilled in
> the prop.
> Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich metal prop extention |
I had to drive out the pins on mine because they were installed on the wrong
side of the extention; that is on the engine flange side. I had no choice
but to drive them out. I used a punch pin slightly smaller than the hole and
they came right out. Van's now has a rear spinner flange that is drilled for
the pins. I drilled mine for the pins with no trouble. Just for
information, the pins are there for alignment and extra support of the
trorque loads. There are also six bolts which clamp the prop to the flange.
Friction between the prop and flange is really what keeps the prop from
turning relative to the engine. That is why you have to keep torqueing the
flange on a wooden prop. It is the friction, not the bolts that hold the
prop from turning. For example, if the prop wood shrinks as it dries out the
friction will be less and the prop will be loose. If not corrected the prop
bolts can shear right off at the flange. I have seen what this looks like
and it is not a pretty sight. Fortunately the plane made it to the airport
sans prop but the prop flange on the engine was a mess. Also the engine RPM
went way over redline before the pilot could get it shut down. Big bucks
involved to get it fixed. Use the proper torque and check it after a couple
of hours to make sure that it is still correct. On a wooden prop, you need
to also check it about every twenty-five hours.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Comparable experience |
Nothing compares to an RV. That is why I am building one.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pop rivet question |
One is aluminum (AD) and the other is Monel metal (MD). The Monel is stonger
and resists corrosion better.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bpboyd(at)cdsnet.net (bruce boyd) |
| Subject: | Re: Pop rivet question |
Bill,
I beleve that the AD-42-BS is an alum. rivit with steel mandrel and the
MD-42-BS is an monel rivit with steel mandrel. If so the MD-42-BS would be
stronger.
Bruce...
>Hi Folks,
>
>I have been looking through my manuals and must be looking in the wrong
>place.
>
>Can anyone tell me the difference between an AD-42-BS pop rivet and an
>MD-42-BS pop rivet? If different and one is stronger or superior to
>the other, can you tell me which one? (Question is related to mounting
>elevator trim control horn with electric trim for RV-6.) Thanks for
>any help guys and gals.
>
>Best regards,
>Bill Costello
>--
>
> ___ _____________________________
> \ \ _ _ / /
> \ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello Chicago \
> X-*#####*******......./ N97WC (reserved) /
> o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on left elev. \
> \__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com /
> \____________________________\
>
>
>
Bruce Boyd
Flyin B Ranch
RV-6 595BP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terryg(at)SceptreCal.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM |
| Subject: | HS/Elevator Electric Trim Lead |
'Listers -- I'm installing electric elevator trim in my -6, and I'm
wondering about the holes in the HS and the elevator spars to
accommodate the servo lead. I'm thinking that I'll put a snap bushing
in each (anti-chafe), but I'm also wondering if a second (slightly
smaller) hole right next to the first might also make sense, so that
the lead can be tied down in some way. Should I be concerned about
the cut out in the leading edge of the elevator also chafing the servo
lead?
Any thoughts that you have on the above, or alternative suggestions
would be very much appreciated. Thanx to all for all of your help.
Terry in Calgary
S/N 24414
"Skinning Horizontal Stabilizer"
PS. Actually, finished priming skins over the weekend, hope to rivet
first side of skins this week...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Standley <Gary_Standley(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: anyone know of a -6a flipping over? |
Text item:
I WOULD RECOMMEND AGAINST FLIPPING ANY AIRPLANE OVER, UNLESS OF COURSE, YOU HAVE
3000'+ ALTITUDE AGL.
---- Begin Forwarded Message
(8.6.13/SMI-4.1/Netcom)
(8.6.12/SMI-4.1)
From: ix.netcom.com!Tailspin(at)matronics.com
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 19:50:47 +0000
Subject: RV-List: anyone know of a -6a flipping over?
With all of the talk of how to escape from a RV-4 or -6, has anyone
ever heard of an accident where an RV-6a flipped over? I suppose it's
possible, and since a -6a is what I'm building, I am just curious.
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6a riviting forward bottom
tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com
A local RV-6A builder (with his wife), (in the interest of privacy I
will not give their names), botched a landing here at his home airport
in Renton, Washington, and flipped over his RV-6A. Rumer has it that
it slid about 100 feet upside down on the asphalt. Both people
survived with severe head and neck trauma. I visited them in intensive
care. They looked very bad. I believe they both had broken necks. I
don't want to go into further details. Anyway, they somehow amazingly
both healed in about 6 months (lots of scars remain). I would
recommend against flipping an RV-6A over.
Peter B. Mortensen, Renton, WA. n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com
_______________________________________________________________________
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
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Subject: Fwd: RV-List: anyone know of a -6a flipping over?
From: ix.netcom.com!n21pe(at)matronics.com (Peter B. Mortensen)
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 07:12:15 -0700
tel.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA29759 for | Date: | Apr 22, 1996 |
| From: | Lewis <lewisjw(at)hqsocom.af.mil> |
Subject: Sky Ranch Eng Manual address requested
Could someone please post the address or phone number to order the book
"Sky Ranch Engineering Manual". Thanks. Joe Lewis, RV-6A Tampa Bay
P.S. Great to meet all you RV-Listers at S n F, especially Bob Skinner!
lewisjw(at)hqsocom.af.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich metal prop |
>>Bob, I've got a f/p metal prop on mine, and I don't remember any such
>proplems. I got the ext. from Vans' and the prop is a cut down metal. I'll
>revue it and let you know. The front spinner plate, the one in front of the
>prop, I remember that I formed it on the edges to recurve so as to fit in
>the spinner. The way it came was to be used with a wood prop. Tony
>Bengelis had an article a few years back, in Sport Aviation about this.
>If I remember correctly, Vans changed the forward plate so that you don't
>have to cut out the edges if used with wood, so all of my info may be
>outdated now.
>John D
>John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
>johnd@our-town.com
John, I assume that you are using the "I" shaped prop extension designed
for use with a wood prop. This is the kind of extension that I'm using with
my wood prop. The Sensenich extension is a cylinder or spool type of
extension and it has two indexing pins that fit into the Sensenich prop
designed for this series A/C. Are you aware of the general agreeement not
to use a cut down and re-pitched factory prop on our RV's? Also, I don't
think Sensenich approves the "I" type extension for metal props. You
probably already know this, I just want everybody to be safe. Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Flyguy" <MIGNANOJ(at)evergreen.hillsborouh.k12.or.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Simple Green |
> For those of you using Simple Green as a degreaser, are you using it
> full stregth or diluted? In the case of the latter, what ratio?
Terry,
I wash planes professionally, and when I do use Mr. Green, I spray
it on with a small spray bottle. Usually, however, I use a product
called "Gunk" on heavy grease. It works great! It is available in
spray cans, and is really an "engine degreaser".
Jim Mignano
0 MIG kills and counting...
! !
| _ |
__|__(o)__|__
----------======/+-+/ . \+-+\======----------
_____( |_|\___/|_| )_____
\__/ * * \__/
/ \
F-14D
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Golf clubs in RV??? |
RVers,
I'm just starting an RV6A. I don't have an opportunity to try to put
my golf clubs in someone else's RV. Does anyone know if this is
possible? I looked in the RV baggage of planes at Sun-n-fun and
I doubt it'll be a piece of cake.
Some thoughts:
1) Seriously doubt many (if any) will lie flat in baggage compartment.
2) Could some of them be at an angle in baggage compartment?
3) This list has talked about other stuff (skis?) being fit into
fuselage. Anyone done this with clubs?
4) My guess is the best case scenario are the irons inclined in baggage
compartment and maybe a couple tubes (like the kind in some golf
bags) going back into the fuselage for woods. Does anybody know if
this will work? All clubs in tubes would raise questions of cg
(though I'll probably have a c/s prop), structural integrity of
back wall of baggage compartment and I'm naive enough that I
don't know if there is even room enough for club shafts back
there.
5) A bummer of a scenario might be somehow putting clubs in
passenger seat. This idea sounds like it would require some
special rigging to make it safe (if it's even possible). It
also has other obvious drawbacks. I also just don't like it.
6) Any idea would require making sure the clubs can't become
potential projectiles.
7) Has anyone done this with two sets of clubs?
Disclaimer: I don't intend this as starting a stupid discussion.
I am VERY interested in this subject and I'm willing to go through
quite a bit of effort if I can pull it off safely.
Thanks in advance,
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Don Karl karl@dg-rtp.dg.com (919)248-5915
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Arter <arter(at)acd.ucar.edu> |
Sacramento Sky Ranch Inc.
6622 Freeport Blvd * PO BOX 22610 Sacramento, CA. 95822
800-433-3564 Fax (916) 421-5719
Open Monday - Friday 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM Pacific time
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>From: lewisjw
>Subject: Sky Ranch Eng Manual address requested
>Could someone please post the address or phone number to order the book
>"Sky Ranch Engineering Manual". Thanks. Joe Lewis, RV-6A Tampa Bay
>
>P.S. Great to meet all you RV-Listers at S n F, especially Bob Skinner!
>
>lewisjw(at)hqsocom.af.mil
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Williams <terry(at)is.com> |
| Subject: | Skyranch Engine Manual. |
I see no other way to order it except through the web. Someone else
know better? It can probably be ordered through a bookstore.
If you have access to the World Wide Web:
http://www.avweb.com/sponsors/skyranch/enginman.html
tw
Begin forwarded message:
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 96 15:35:06 EDT
From: Lewis <hqsocom.af.mil!lewisjw(at)matronics.com>
From: lewisjw
Subject: Sky Ranch Eng Manual address requested
Could someone please post the address or phone number to order the book
"Sky Ranch Engineering Manual". Thanks. Joe Lewis, RV-6A Tampa Bay
P.S. Great to meet all you RV-Listers at S n F, especially Bob Skinner!
lewisjw(at)hqsocom.af.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>From: lewisjw
>Subject: Sky Ranch Eng Manual address requested
>Could someone please post the address or phone number to order the book
>"Sky Ranch Engineering Manual". Thanks. Joe Lewis, RV-6A Tampa Bay
>
>P.S. Great to meet all you RV-Listers at S n F, especially Bob Skinner!
>
>lewisjw(at)hqsocom.af.mil
>
>
Mine just came today. I haven't looked at yet but the address of Sacremento
Sky Ranch, Inc is: 6622 Freeport Bvld, P.O. Box 22610, Sacremento CA 95822.
Their phone numbers are: 916-421-7672, 916-421-5719 (fax), or Compuserve
75655,1276.
The book cost 19.95 with shipping of 5.00, total cost of $24.95.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>From: lewisjw
>Subject: Sky Ranch Eng Manual address requested
>Could someone please post the address or phone number to order the book
>"Sky Ranch Engineering Manual". Thanks. Joe Lewis, RV-6A Tampa Bay
>
>P.S. Great to meet all you RV-Listers at S n F, especially Bob Skinner!
>
>lewisjw(at)hqsocom.af.mil
Joe, It was nice to meet you, as well. Maybe the "listers" can have a get
together at OSH. I'm not sure if I'll go back to S&F unless they get a few
things fixed. OSH is a lot closer, too.
Sky Ranch has a Web page: http://www.sierra.net/skyranch I also
noted reading through a recent Trade-A-Plane that they now advertise and
offer quite a bit of stuff. I was checking tire prices and theirs was the
cheapest that I found. At 254 hours, I'm about ready for my 3rd set of
tires. The original McCrearys lasted 63 hours. The Goodyear Flight Custom
tires have lasted 191 hours and have some more time on them. They'd have
even more if I would have rotated them in a timely manner.
Bob Skinner 254 hours and counting RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pop rivet question |
Partly correct,
>and resists corrosion better.
Monel metal resists corrosion better if it was on its own, but you place monel
metal in an aluminium skin and eventually you will get dissimilar metal
corrosion. The two metals create a potential difference, similar to a battery,
which leads to local corrosion.
Regards
Mike P
======================================================================
_/ | Mike Parkinson - NSMDA
_/ | E-Mail: m_parkinson(at)nsmd.aus.hp.com
_/_/_/ _/_/_/ | Phone : +61 (03) 9210 5653
_/ _/ _/ _/ | Fax : +61 (03) 9210 5646
_/ _/ _/_/_/ | Postal: 31-41 Joseph Street
_/ | Blackburn, VIC 3130
_/ | Australia
----------------------------------------------------------------------
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-List: Pop rivet question
HP-Singapore,shargw1
Date: 23/4/96 2:49 AM
One is aluminum (AD) and the other is Monel metal (MD). The Monel is stonger
and resists corrosion better.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stuart Fraley <swfraley(at)alpha.comsource.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Comparable experience |
Terry,
I have a Grumman AA-5 Traveler and flew the RV-6A prototype at Sun-n-Fun
last week. I was surprised at how similar they are. I commented on it
during the RV flight and [what's his name -- the CFI that does the RV-6
instruction] said, "Well, most people tend to overcontrol this airplane at
first."
While the Grumman is nowhere near the airplane that the RV is, it requires a
similarly light touch and a similar degree of vigilance to maintain an
altitude. Much to my surprise, they even use the same speeds in the
pattern. If you have access to any of the Grumman line, it'd be worthwhile
to get a little time in one.
Stuart Fraley
RV-6 Tail
>I am wondering what rental airplanes would be comparable to flying
>an RV. I am not building yet and nearly all of my time is in
>airplanes that barely go 115 mph. So, as I am getting my currency in
>order this summer and as I add to my previous 120 hours, what
>airplanes would you recommend that I try to get a feel for what it
>is like to fly an RV?
>
>I will most likely get my currency and tail wheel endorsement in a
>Cub or a Citabria, but I believe they are fairly slow and docile. It
>seems from some of the other email on the list that it might be
>easy for a low-timer to get behind an RV. I would like to be a
>little prepared if it is necessary.
>
>Do you folks have any suggestions? How about the Grumman gang
>(AA-1, Traveler/Cheetah, Tiger[$$$$])? I might be able to find a
>PA-18-150.
>
>What ever it is, hopefully I can find one to rent.
>
>I really like all of the RV aircraft, but I have a real soft spot
>for the RV-4. I will be sad to see the RV-4 get replaced by the
>RV-8. Don't get me wrong, I think the RV-8 is a very fine airplane.
>I guess there is something about the RV-3 & 4 that reminds me of
>days gone by.
>
>Keep your cheeks in the breeze (your face cheeks that is). ;)
>
>tw
>
>terry_williams(at)is.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcon(at)ix.netcom.com (Robert M. Cornacchia ) |
You wrote:
>
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>From: lewisjw
>Subject: Sky Ranch Eng Manual address requested
>Could someone please post the address or phone number to order the
book
>"Sky Ranch Engineering Manual". Thanks. Joe Lewis, RV-6A Tampa Bay
>
>P.S. Great to meet all you RV-Listers at S n F, especially Bob
Skinner!
>
>lewisjw(at)hqsocom.af.mil
>
Hi Joe,
The address at Sky Ranch is 6622 Freeport Blvd., Sacramento, CA 95822
1-800-433-3564
internet john(at)skyranc.uucp.netcom.com
WEB page http;//WWWsierra.net/
Happy reading,
Bob Cornacchia RV6
bcon(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
I was brousing through one of the aviation newsgroups and found a
message that referred to a two place intercom kit made by RST
Engineering. The kit was RST Model 442. Has anyone built and
equipped their RV with one of these kits. Their home page is
http://www.rst-engr.com/
chet
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich metal prop |
The main problem that this causes is that the
> spinner backing plate IS NOT DRILLED for these extra two holes.
> Someone should call Van's on this. They should be providing these
> rear spinner plates pre-drilled with these extra two holes that the
> factory sensensich prop needs. That fix this problem.
> I was able to use my spinner, rear and front bulkhead with just a little
> fileing on the spinner as the spinner rubbed in one area due to a little
> more twist on the blade at the hub area. I had already been using one
> of the special spinner front bulkheads that Van sells for the metal props
> (the metal props are thinner than wood so you need is different front
> bulkhead if you have been using a wood spinner).
> Herman
Herman, Thanks for the response. Van's rear bulkhead is now comes drilled
with the two holes for the pins. I can't use my old spinner and will sell
this and the bulkheads with my Props Inc. prop. Boy, I hate to see that
prop go, it's a real beauty. I'm not getting rid of it until I'm sure that
I'm satisfied with the Sensenich. I've got to have a garage sale one of
these days---Two wood props, a harmonic balancer and a Vetterman 4 pipe
exhaust system. I'll use some of the proceeds to buy Matt's fuel scan.
Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich metal prop |
> Are you aware of the general agreeement not
>to use a cut down and re-pitched factory prop on our RV's? Also, I don't
>think Sensenich approves the "I" type extension for metal props. You
>probably already know this, I just want everybody to be safe. Bob Skinner
>
Bob, I am not aware of the general agreement on this usage. I must be out of
the loop on this subject. I know that Vans has a very low regard of them.
In the Rvator he boldly said take them off because of many reasons, the main
one being that they came apart at times. Then in the very next article he
talked about a well known brand of wood props coming apart. So what is a
guy to do? Use plastic or carbon fiber only? I've had mine tested and it
came through very good. Maybe I'm flying a time bomb, but wouldn't I also
be doing so with the wood? I know that there are some wierd stories out
there about these, but I've heard some wild ones about wood also. I figure
there is a certain amount of risk either way. Yet, having said all of this,
in the back of my mind, there is always a nagging irritation regarding the
prop, and I think I would have it as well with a wood prop.
I'm not argueing the point, It's each of our individual choice, but I really
hadn't heard of an agreement regarding this.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Skyranch Engine Manual. |
Well " http://www.avweb.com/sponsors/skyranch/enginman.html " won't get you anywhere...
Looks like this web site is secured or something...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Golf clubs in RV??? |
my golf clubs in someone else's RV. Does anyone know if this is
>possible? I looked in the RV baggage of planes at Sun-n-fun and
>I doubt it'll be a piece of cake.
Donald,
One of the criteria I had on A/C selection was the ability to cart around the
essential tools of the most noble of sports - YES you can get 2 sets in at an angle.
You may have to take the woods & long irons out and lay them "cattywampus" -
diagonally - but they will fit. Yup!! what a plane!! - 2 adults, full fuel, two
sets
of clubs & overnight baggage - all this and only one stop to Tucson from
Houston.....Life is good!
Rob Lee - RV6A - N517RL - first flight imminent (EEK!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Williams <terry(at)is.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Skyranch Engine Manual. |
Sorry about that. The address that I gave is part of the AvWeb =
site (http://www.avweb.com). You have to register before you can =
browse. Registration is free. All you have to do is sign-up. The =
web-site is paid for by entirely by advertising. The guy who wrote =
the Sky Ranch Engine Manual, writes engine articles for the AvWeb =
online magazine.
It is an interesting site. There is a lot of information. You =
might want to check it out.
tw
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich metal prop |
> To: Anyone with experience mounting the Sensincih FP metal prop. For
>fitting the Van's spinner, drilling it onto the front and rear bulkheads,
>I'll need to fit the rear bulkhead between the spacer and prop. To take the
>assembly apart so that I can install nutplates, paint, etc. requires you to
>punch the pins out with a not over 7/16" punch and the paper work that comes
>with the prop says that this is a tight fit and will require a lot of
>pounding, which I'm a little reluctant to do. Does anyone have any
>experience with this? I've considered using the old wood prop extension as
>it is the same thickness as the Sensenich spool type extension. This would
>eleminate fooling with the pin pounding. Does anyone see any problem with
this?
> I was surprised to see that the drive connection between the spacer and
>the prop was just two steel pins. I would have thought that the spacer
>would have had lugs on it that went into the lug holes already drilled in
>the prop.
>Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>
>Bob;
Van will send you a template to drill holes in the bulkhead for thoses pins.
Or you can measure and drill them. Thats what Jon did on his. He also said
you can't get the exact
number of nutplates on the bulkhead as Van specs. due to the blade cutouts.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JIM SCHMIDT <JIM.SCHMIDT(at)mail.mei.com> |
| Subject: | I built an RST intercom for my Cherokee 10 years ago. It |
worked fine.
I built an RST intercom for my Cherokee 10 years ago. It worked fine.
At that time the kit was not as thorough as Heathkit but I had no
problem as I work in electronics. If you can build and RV you can
build their kits. I had their com radio in a Cherokee II sailplane
and was not real happy with it though. Range seemed weak, and I had
connector problems. They used lead/tin or some kind of alloy contacts
that I thought did not belong in and aircraft, but I guess its common
practice. In medical we usually use gold. But then I guess that's why
we all pay too much for healthcare.
Jim
RV6 23082 wings out of jig. fuse on order.
>>> chester razer 04/22/96
08:03pm >>>
I was brousing through one of the aviation newsgroups and found a
message that referred to a two place intercom kit made by RST
Engineering. The kit was RST Model 442. Has anyone built and
equipped their RV with one of these kits. Their home page is
http://www.rst-engr.com/
chet
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Intercom Kit |
Chet,
I have put the RST intercoms in both of my RV's abd really like them. The kit
is easy yto put together just follow the instructions. Their audio panel
works well also, if you have any question write or call
301-293-1505....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Cut down metal props |
>Bob, I am not aware of the general agreement on this usage. I must be out of
>the loop on this subject. I know that Vans has a very low regard of them.
>In the Rvator he boldly said take them off because of many reasons, the main
>one being that they came apart at times. Then in the very next article he
>talked about a well known brand of wood props coming apart. So what is a
>guy to do? Use plastic or carbon fiber only? I've had mine tested and it
>came through very good. Maybe I'm flying a time bomb, but wouldn't I also
>be doing so with the wood? I know that there are some wierd stories out
>there about these, but I've heard some wild ones about wood also. I figure
>there is a certain amount of risk either way. Yet, having said all of this,
>in the back of my mind, there is always a nagging irritation regarding the
>prop, and I think I would have it as well with a wood prop.
>I'm not argueing the point, It's each of our individual choice, but I really
>hadn't heard of an agreement regarding this.
>John D
>John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
>johnd@our-town.com
John, It is my understanding that wood props do not have the
vibration/fatigue problems of cut down metal props. What kind of testing
did you have done on your metal prop? I think most wood prop problems come
from not checking the torque on the prop bolts often enough. Another
possible problem with a wood prop would be not using an extension with a
large enough face on it for wood props on larger engines (180 hp). I would
think that loosing a tip of a wood prop would be less traumatic than the
loosing the same amount on a metal prop. I'm pretty sure I know what
Sensenich would say about cutting down and re-pitching a metal prop. But,
they are very sensitive to liability issues. Anyway, I think that this
subject deserves some more research as I've heard that it is a very
frightening experience (could be fatal) to loose the end of a metal prop. I
sure don't want to pick a fight. It's just, after all of the airplane
accidents of the past few weeks, I don't want to see anyone get hurt.
Especially, fellow RVer's and listers.
Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
Right on, Bob..... Good Show!
I was taught chemistry and physics using a balance beam scale....the use of
which goes back more than 6000 years, and is referred to in the oldest
written documents, which were medical textbooks....maybe old ways are the
best, still....
Denny
(Yup, I'm almost that old...)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich metal prop |
A
>>Bob;
>Van will send you a template to drill holes in the bulkhead for thoses pins.
>Or you can measure and drill them. Thats what Jon did on his. He also said
>you can't get the exact
>number of nutplates on the bulkhead as Van specs. due to the blade cutouts.
>
>Regards:
>
>Rusty Gossard
>N47RG RV-4 Flying
Rusty, My back plate has the holes for the pins, so no problem. I don't
have any information from Van's on nutplate spacing or prop contour cutouts
as I did not buy the prop from Van's. I bought my prop from another dealer
as he was cheaper.
Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
RV-4 N9167Z was flown for the first time by myself on Saturday, Apr 27.
*********** :-) ***************
After a full power run-up with my friend holding the tail and switching
tanks I took it out and departed. It has an 0-320 from Van's and a
Pacesetter 68x71 wood prop. Construction began Feb 1995 and was completed
April 8, 1996.
The problems encountered are listed below, for the most part the AC
flew fine.
The louver on the heat box (box inside on the firewall) doesn't seem to
want to stay closed. It was a little warm! I stuffed a couple of rags
in the box and that seemed to work for now, next time I have the top deck
off I'll come up with a better fix.
When I drained the preserative oil from the cylinders I got some on the
exhaust pipes, this drained into the heat muff, and when the engine warmed
up for the first time the cabin filled with smoke, thought I had a real
fire going till I figured out what happened.
Both the 1/8" fuel and oil lines to the 3-in-one gauge leaked slightly,
I noticed it before the second flight. Tighted up the fittings and it
was ok, I think I was to afraid of overtightening and cracking the
meter housing.
The dip stick housing supplied with the engine is plastic and way to
long (hits the cowl). I cut it, shortened it, and used a 3/4" PVC fitting
to stick it back together. The problem is I didn't cut it short enough
to clear the motor mount and during the first flight it came unglued. It
didn't go anywhere but when I went to check the oil I picked the whole
housing up. The fix was to go ahead and shorten the thing so it's now
below the motor mount and cannot vibrate on anything. I was hesistant
to do this at first but new it may be a problem, should have done that
in the first place. It's a little bit hard to reach but not really a
problem, you also need a long funnel to add oil but most FBO's seem to
have them.
On the second flight I took it up and did some stalls, I was talking with
my wife on the ground when I mentioned "Oops, forgot raise the flaps,
this thing sure flies better with the flaps up; I hope nobody heard this"
a strange voice comes on "yes we heard that, what you flying?" When I
told him he identified himself; Tom Green from Van's!!! Apparently Tom
and John Morgan were returning to Van's in OR from FL. They were over
Santa Fe (about 60 mi north). Small world! The were trying to get back
before dark so I hope they had a safe flight.
Hope to get the time flown off soon so we can really go somewhere!
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Arter <arter(at)acd.ucar.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: I built an RST intercom for my Cherokee 10 years |
ago. It
Jim, hi
What is a Cherokee II sailplane? Is that what you get when you run out of gas?
Phil
arter(at)acd.ucar.edu
> worked fine.
>
I had their com radio in a Cherokee II sailplane
>and was not real happy with it though.
>
>Jim
>RV6 23082 wings out of jig. fuse on order.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Golf clubs in RV??? |
Rob,
Thanks for the info. I'm amazed. It didn't look like they'd fit, but
I believe you!!! (BTW, all my clubs are standard sized).
I guess this is a short thread. :-)
For me, Myrtle beach will be changed from 3.5 hrs to a little over
1 hr; the way the crow flys is a lot shorter than driving.
Thanks again,
dk
>
> >my golf clubs in someone else's RV. Does anyone know if this is
> >possible? I looked in the RV baggage of planes at Sun-n-fun and
> >I doubt it'll be a piece of cake.
>
> Donald,
>
> One of the criteria I had on A/C selection was the ability to cart around the
> essential tools of the most noble of sports - YES you can get 2 sets in at an
angle.
> You may have to take the woods & long irons out and lay them "cattywampus" -
> diagonally - but they will fit. Yup!! what a plane!! - 2 adults, full fuel,
two sets
> of clubs & overnight baggage - all this and only one stop to Tucson from
> Houston.....Life is good!
>
> Rob Lee - RV6A - N517RL - first flight imminent (EEK!)
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Don Karl karl@dg-rtp.dg.com (919)248-5915
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Becki Orndorff <rso(at)css.ncifcrf.gov> |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB3118.CDB83C00
Dan,
Congratualtions and happy flying!
Becki Orndorff
----------
From: Dan Boudro[SMTP:nmia.com!dboudro(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 1996 4:13 AM
Subject: RV-List: New RV-4
RV-4 N9167Z was flown for the first time by myself on Saturday, Apr 27.
*********** :-) ***************
After a full power run-up with my friend holding the tail and switching
tanks I took it out and departed. It has an 0-320 from Van's and a
Pacesetter 68x71 wood prop. Construction began Feb 1995 and was completed
April 8, 1996.
The problems encountered are listed below, for the most part the AC
flew fine.
The louver on the heat box (box inside on the firewall) doesn't seem to
want to stay closed. It was a little warm! I stuffed a couple of rags
in the box and that seemed to work for now, next time I have the top deck
off I'll come up with a better fix.
When I drained the preserative oil from the cylinders I got some on the
exhaust pipes, this drained into the heat muff, and when the engine warmed
up for the first time the cabin filled with smoke, thought I had a real
fire going till I figured out what happened.
Both the 1/8" fuel and oil lines to the 3-in-one gauge leaked slightly,
I noticed it before the second flight. Tighted up the fittings and it
was ok, I think I was to afraid of overtightening and cracking the
meter housing.
The dip stick housing supplied with the engine is plastic and way to
long (hits the cowl). I cut it, shortened it, and used a 3/4" PVC fitting
to stick it back together. The problem is I didn't cut it short enough
to clear the motor mount and during the first flight it came unglued. It
didn't go anywhere but when I went to check the oil I picked the whole
housing up. The fix was to go ahead and shorten the thing so it's now
below the motor mount and cannot vibrate on anything. I was hesistant
to do this at first but new it may be a problem, should have done that
in the first place. It's a little bit hard to reach but not really a
problem, you also need a long funnel to add oil but most FBO's seem to
have them.
On the second flight I took it up and did some stalls, I was talking with
my wife on the ground when I mentioned "Oops, forgot raise the flaps,
this thing sure flies better with the flaps up; I hope nobody heard this"
a strange voice comes on "yes we heard that, what you flying?" When I
told him he identified himself; Tom Green from Van's!!! Apparently Tom
and John Morgan were returning to Van's in OR from FL. They were over
Santa Fe (about 60 mi north). Small world! The were trying to get back
before dark so I hope they had a safe flight.
Hope to get the time flown off soon so we can really go somewhere!
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pmbs(at)probe.att.com (Paul M Bilodeau +1 +1 908 957 6611) |
| Subject: | Re: Shortening your dip stick housing.... |
Dan,
Did you shorten your dip stick also.....to reflect the correct amount
of oil in the engine now that the dip stick housing had been shortened??
> The dip stick housing supplied with the engine is plastic and way to
> long (hits the cowl). I cut it, shortened it, and used a 3/4" PVC fitting
> to stick it back together.
Just curious how you went about getting a "correct" amount of oil to show
on the dip stick when it is removed now.
Paul Bilodeau
pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com
908-957-6611
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank L Laczko Sr <flaczko(at)l1.conline.com> |
| Subject: | Lurker comming clean ... |
I have been reading this list, and contemplating the magnitude of the job
involved in building a plane, particularly a fairly complex one like the
RV-6A. I have considered it a few times in the past, but to quote my
wife, "common sense overtook me" at the last minute.
A little background - I am 64, design audio and video compression chips
for a living at Texas Instruments, and have been accused of having three
left hands in the past. Furthermore, following - or reading -
instructions have never been my strong suit. I have about 2000 hours as
PIC, mostly in Mooneys. Owned a number of planes, from a C120 (never
learned to land it without bouncing) to an Aircoupe and 3 Mooneys. Don't
have a plane now - I bought a sailboat, but found that sailing will never
replace flying - and am suffering from severe withdrawal symptons.
Long introduction - the question is - can a mere mortal REALY
complete an RV-6a in a reasonable period of time? and stay married in the
process? I read with some admiration about some of the list members
working on their second or third RV. Where do you find the time?
I live in Allen, Texas - would love to talk to any builders in this area.
Maybe I just need a little transfusion of self confidence (only on
building planes - people accuse me of having too much on other subjects).
Sorry for being long-winded.
Frank L Laczko Sr.
flaczko(at)conline.com
214-480-6395 (day)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JIM SCHMIDT <JIM.SCHMIDT(at)mail.mei.com> |
| Subject: | What is a Cherokee II? chatter |
No, Cherokee II was an all wood and fabric homebuilt sailplane
designed by Stan Hall to be a Schweitzer 1-26 competitor. It had
39 foot tapered wings and out turned and out thermaled the 1-26.
I payed 2500, flew it for 5 years and sold it for 2500. Just pray
the termites keep holding hands everytime you fly.
>>> Phil Arter 04/23/96
08:34am >>>
Jim, hi
What is a Cherokee II sailplane? Is that what you get when you
run out of gas?
Phil arter(at)acd.ucar.edu
> worked fine.
>
I had their com radio in a Cherokee II sailplane
>and was not real happy with it though. >
>Jim >RV6 23082 wings out of jig. fuse on order.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
RV> Congratulations on your first flight! It really is good
RV>to hear that people are actually finishing these things. You
RV>sure built yours in a short amount of time. Amazing. I hope
RV>you will keep posting notes as your flight testing continues.
Dan:
I also noticed that you were able to finish your -4 in record time. Did
you devote all your time to the project or did you have an "other" job?
I'm looking forward to receiving the tail kit for my -8 and I'm
wondering if the prepunched skins make a lot of difference in time
required.
Congratulations on your first flight!
Rod Woodard
Loveland, Colorado
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
>The dip stick housing supplied with the engine is plastic and way to
>long (hits the cowl). I cut it, shortened it, and used a 3/4" PVC fitting
>to stick it back together. The problem is I didn't cut it short enough
>to clear the motor mount and during the first flight it came unglued. It
>didn't go anywhere but when I went to check the oil I picked the whole
>housing up. The fix was to go ahead and shorten the thing so it's now
>below the motor mount and cannot vibrate on anything. I was hesistant
>to do this at first but new it may be a problem, should have done that
>in the first place. It's a little bit hard to reach but not really a
>problem, you also need a long funnel to add oil but most FBO's seem to
>have them.
>
Way to go Dan,
We need all the 4 drivers we can get......seems the new wide body RV's are
out numbering us. Your fun has just begun.
By the way, your dipstick problem is common. I have mine shortened below
the mount and its never been a problem.
Regards
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JIM SCHMIDT <JIM.SCHMIDT(at)mail.mei.com> |
| Subject: | Dan you really are fast you even wrote this message before |
you flew
Dan you really are fast you even wrote this message before you flew
it. Congratulations
jim ;>)
>>> Dan Boudro 04/23/96 08:13am >>>
RV-4 N9167Z was flown for the first time by myself on !!!!Saturday,
Apr 27.!!!!
*********** :-) ***************
After a full power run-up with my friend holding the tail and
switching tanks I took it out and departed. It has an 0-320 from
Van's and a
Pacesetter 68x71 wood prop. Construction began Feb 1995 and was
completed
April 8, 1996.
The problems encountered are listed below, for the most part the AC
flew fine.
The louver on the heat box (box inside on the firewall) doesn't seem
to want to stay closed. It was a little warm! I stuffed a couple of
rags in the box and that seemed to work for now, next time I have the
top deck off I'll come up with a better fix.
When I drained the preserative oil from the cylinders I got some on
the exhaust pipes, this drained into the heat muff, and when the
engine warmed up for the first time the cabin filled with smoke,
thought I had a real fire going till I figured out what happened.
Both the 1/8" fuel and oil lines to the 3-in-one gauge leaked
slightly,
I noticed it before the second flight. Tighted up the fittings and
it was ok, I think I was to afraid of overtightening and cracking the
meter housing.
The dip stick housing supplied with the engine is plastic and way to
long (hits the cowl). I cut it, shortened it, and used a 3/4" PVC
fitting to stick it back together. The problem is I didn't cut it
short enough to clear the motor mount and during the first flight it
came unglued. It didn't go anywhere but when I went to check the oil
I picked the whole housing up. The fix was to go ahead and shorten
the thing so it's now below the motor mount and cannot vibrate on
anything. I was hesistant to do this at first but new it may be a
problem, should have done that in the first place. It's a little bit
hard to reach but not really a problem, you also need a long funnel
to add oil but most FBO's seem to have them.
On the second flight I took it up and did some stalls, I was talking
with my wife on the ground when I mentioned "Oops, forgot raise the
flaps, this thing sure flies better with the flaps up; I hope nobody
heard this" a strange voice comes on "yes we heard that, what you
flying?" When I told him he identified himself; Tom Green from
Van's!!! Apparently Tom and John Morgan were returning to Van's in
OR from FL. They were over
Santa Fe (about 60 mi north). Small world! The were trying to get
back before dark so I hope they had a safe flight.
Hope to get the time flown off soon so we can really go somewhere!
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PatK(at)gnn.com (Patrick Kelley) |
>From: Dan Boudro <nmia.com!dboudro(at)matronics.com>
>Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: New RV-4
>
>RV-4 N9167Z was flown for the first time by myself on Saturday, Apr 27.
> *********** :-) ***************
That's pretty impressive! How'd you manage to post the announcement four
days before the flight? Seriously, congratulations!
PatK - RV-6A wing spars being primed.
PatK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Lurker comming clean ... |
the question is - can a mere mortal REALY
>complete an RV-6a in a reasonable period of time? and stay married in the
>process? I read with some admiration about some of the list members
>working on their second or third RV. Where do you find the time?
>
Frank:
You want to build a plane and stay married too..... now thats asking alot
isn't it.
Actually I was very lucky as my wife (She helped alot) and I built our 4 in
under 23 months and waited for our engine for 2 of those 23. (Worked a full
time job during that period) The only fast build option we used was the spar.
We just made a decision to work on it every day, even if it was just to go
to the shop and organize. If you can learn to do what you do at TI you can
learn the skills to build and RV. There are tons of RV's in Texas and I'm
sure they will check in and offer help as required. I have a friend locally
that is 66 and just started his second RV-6. His first one was nice, he
didn't have to build the second one to "get it right", he just enjoyed it.
Good luck with your decision.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
| Subject: | Re: Intercom Kit |
Ya know, no matter how many times I read it,
it just gets better and better. That Bruce REALLY loves his
intercom<:-)
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Seperator >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
----------
From: internet!matronics.com!aol.com!RV4Bell
Subject: Re: RV-List: Intercom Kit
Date: Tuesday, April 23, 1996 10:30AM
I built one and it works great. Use it all the time in my Bonanza. Uses 9
volt battery or aircraft power. Bruce Bell RV-4 #2888 rv4bell(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shortening your dip stick housing.... |
Before I put the housing on the engine I measured the distance from the
bottom of the housing to the 8qt mark (2-1/16") on the dip stick. I
maintained that distance sliding the stick up the cap till the
measurement matched, redrilled a hole and replaced the pin (also
safety wired the stick to the cap just for good measure).
Dan
On Tue, 23 Apr 1996, Paul M Bilodeau +1 +1 908 957 6611 wrote:
> Dan,
>
> Did you shorten your dip stick also.....to reflect the correct amount
> of oil in the engine now that the dip stick housing had been shortened??
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Japundza <bob(at)walnut.holli.com> |
| Subject: | Shortening of sticks |
Can anyone out there make recommendations for shortening of control
sticks? I have heard some people have shortened them as much as 3". I
would like to have my control grips in a comfortable position where I
can rest my forarm on my thigh, but also keep control inputs relatively
light.
everything is a compromise...
Bob Japundza
RV-6 on gear
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
I know. I can't wait for my "8" tail kit to come either. I'm
encouraged by completion stories, too!
----------
From:
lawyernet.com!rwoodard(at)matronics.com[SMTP:lawyernet.com!rwoodard(at)matro
nics.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 1996 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: New RV-4
RV> Congratulations on your first flight! It really is good
RV>to hear that people are actually finishing these things. You
RV>sure built yours in a short amount of time. Amazing. I hope
RV>you will keep posting notes as your flight testing continues.
Dan:
I also noticed that you were able to finish your -4 in record time. Did
you devote all your time to the project or did you have an "other" job?
I'm looking forward to receiving the tail kit for my -8 and I'm
wondering if the prepunched skins make a lot of difference in time
required.
Congratulations on your first flight!
Rod Woodard
Loveland, Colorado
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dan you really are fast you even wrote this message before |
Oops, that was saturday Apr 20, sorry!
Dan
On Tue, 23 Apr 1996, JIM SCHMIDT wrote:
> you flew
>
> Dan you really are fast you even wrote this message before you flew
> it. Congratulations
> jim ;>)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
Rod,
Well, I didn't have pre-punched skin but I guess I should mention this
is my second RV-4, built the first one N9180M about 5 years ago. I do
work full time but devoted ALL my spare time to the project and have a
wife who was VERY helpful!
Dan
On Tue, 23 Apr 1996 lawyernet.com!rwoodard(at)matronics.com wrote:
> RV> Congratulations on your first flight! It really is good
> RV>to hear that people are actually finishing these things. You
> RV>sure built yours in a short amount of time. Amazing. I hope
> RV>you will keep posting notes as your flight testing continues.
>
> Dan:
>
> I also noticed that you were able to finish your -4 in record time. Did
> you devote all your time to the project or did you have an "other" job?
> I'm looking forward to receiving the tail kit for my -8 and I'm
> wondering if the prepunched skins make a lot of difference in time
> required.
>
> Congratulations on your first flight!
>
> Rod Woodard
> Loveland, Colorado
> RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | hqb(at)netcom.netcom.com (Henry Bibb) |
>
> RV-4 N9167Z was flown for the first time by myself on Saturday, Apr 27.
> *********** :-) ***************
Congratulations! I can't imagine how great that must feel...
>
> The louver on the heat box (box inside on the firewall) doesn't seem to
> want to stay closed. It was a little warm! I stuffed a couple of rags
> in the box and that seemed to work for now, next time I have the top deck
> off I'll come up with a better fix.
>
Watch that rag. I did that once in a Champ, and darn near set the thing
on fire. You shoulda seen me pitch that thing out the window when I smelled
the smoke. Doggone heat melted my tennis shoe to the rudder pedal before
I got home, but I figured I didn't really mind so much after all.. :)
Enjoy your new plane.
Henry Bibb
RV-x builder wanna-be
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
Dan Boudro wrote:
>
> RV-4 N9167Z was flown for the first time by myself on Saturday, Apr 27.
> *********** :-) ***************
> SNIP
Dan
congratulations :-)
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First Flight July 14, 1989 :-)
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
>RV-4 N9167Z was flown for the first time by myself on Saturday, Apr 27.
> *********** :-) ***************
Dan, congratulations. Doesn't it make you feel great knowing that what you
built will acually fly?
May you always have runway in front of you, altitude below you, and the
cruise winds at your back.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shortening of sticks |
Bob, I HAD to shorten my stick.The first time I had it in the receptical
(withe the Instru panel in) and making my humming and roaring and gun firing
noises, I pushed the stick full forwrd and HIT THE INSTRUMENT panel! I
didn't wait to check measurements, I allowed enough room for my thumb and
cut it off.
Don't know how it would feel with all of the stick on, but it sure fits me
better the way it is. Almost no stick pressure at slow speeds and very
little at high. And yes, as an ex fighter jock, I rest my right elbow and
fore arm on my right thigh most of the time. I even have the throttle on the
left side of the cockpit.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Shortening of sticks |
>Can anyone out there make recommendations for shortening of control
>sticks? I have heard some people have shortened them as much as 3". I
>would like to have my control grips in a comfortable position where I
>can rest my forarm on my thigh, but also keep control inputs relatively
>light.
>
>everything is a compromise...
>
>Bob Japundza
>RV-6 on gear
>
>
I cut about 2" from the sticks. I still find that I grip the stick about an
inch down from the top. Have to slide up the stick to operate the
push-to-talk switch. I do rest my left forearm on my thigh, though, and
just use my thumb and first two fingers to control the aircraft.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Acker <75104.3077(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | What's wrong...? |
What's wrong with the list and all these repeat messages (including what I have
sent)?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lurker comming clean ... |
That third left hand will sure come in handy. I wish I had one sometimes.
Anyone with patience and persistence can build an RV. I got my wife to help
me and even though she thinks I am crazy (this is my second plane) she has
been supportive. It is just a series of small jobs. Each one is a small
step to the final product. The final product is the finest flying plane that
I have ever flown and that includes 28 years of military flying and 27years
of airline flying as well as 35 years of just flying for fun in spam cans.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
I realize this has been asked before... and I even wrote it down, but
now that it's time to actually build my jig I can't find the measurement
for the height of the cross-piece on the H-shaped jig.
Looking for suggestions.
Thanks,
Rod Woodard
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
RV-8 Empennage kit ordered
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Martin Sutter and Sensenich prop |
Does anyone know if Martin Sutter is online or has a email address? I was
looking at Sensenich web page and his airplane was used as a test bed for
the O-360 Sensenich metal prop. As I have been thinking of this prop for
my Rv-6 I would like to have his opinion. All of the performence numbers
look about the same as my wood Warnke prop except I would not have to
worry about flying in the rain we get in the wonderful Northwest.
Sensenich has a lot of info at *http//www.sensenich.com*
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First Flight July 14, 1989 :-)
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Jig Height ?? |
Whatever works for your back
Leo Davies
>I realize this has been asked before... and I even wrote it down, but
>now that it's time to actually build my jig I can't find the measurement
>for the height of the cross-piece on the H-shaped jig.
>
>Looking for suggestions.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Rod Woodard
>RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
>RV-8 Empennage kit ordered
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick O'Reilly" <PatrickO(at)ihd.com> |
| Subject: | What's wrong...? |
Robert,
I'm not getting any repeated messages from other rv-listers, but if you send
something to the list it will be repeated back to you. I guess you can call
it an echo or something, but at least that way you know your message got
through!
Regards, Patrick O'Reilly
patricko(at)ihd.com
>----------
>From: Robert Acker[SMTP:CompuServe.COM!75104.3077(at)matronics.com]
>Sent: 24 April, 1996 06:03
>To: rv-list
>Subject: RV-List: What's wrong...?
>
>What's wrong with the list and all these repeat messages (including what I
>have
>sent)?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wbpace(at)adnc.com (Bill Pace) |
| Subject: | Re: Lurker comming clean ... |
>That third left hand will sure come in handy. I wish I had one sometimes.
> Anyone with patience and persistence can build an RV. I got my wife to help
>me and even though she thinks I am crazy (this is my second plane) she has
>been supportive. It is just a series of small jobs. Each one is a small
>step to the final product.
Many of us have supporting wives. Others have ones that just tolerate our
RV building. And some (like mine?) are afraid that someday we really WILL
finish that thing. Since both my wife and I have careers which are
sometimes very demanding on our free time, I tend to work on it in spurts.
Like many others who are building (and working our "necessary" job the rest
of the time), it'll be finished when it's finished. I like to think that
I'm on the 10 year plan so that I won't get anxious and try to hurry too
much.
> The final product is the finest flying plane that
>I have ever flown and that includes 28 years of military flying and 27years
>of airline flying as well as 35 years of just flying for fun in spam cans.
>
>Jim Cone
>jamescone(at)aol.com
So, assuming that you started flying at birth (like some recent intrepid
aviators seem to want to be able to claim), that would make you... Hmm,
lets see... 28 + 27 + 35 ... 90 years old! Wow! :-)
-----
Bill Pace Life is not so much an adventure
wbpace(at)adnc.com as it is a paycheck.
(also wbpace(at)aol.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Lurker comming clean ... |
You wrote:
>> The final product is the finest flying
plane that
>>I have ever flown and that includes 28 years of military flying and
27years
>>of airline flying as well as 35 years of just flying for fun in spam
cans.
>>
>>Jim Cone
>>jamescone(at)aol.com
>
>So, assuming that you started flying at birth (like some recent
intrepid
>aviators seem to want to be able to claim), that would make you...
Hmm,
>lets see... 28 + 27 + 35 ... 90 years old! Wow! :-)
>
Are your careers too demanding? :,) Try parallel thinking vs series.
In reserves, military and commercial flying can and do overlap. GA
flying can overlap both.
Jim's is the best testimonial I have heard so far for the RV's.
Inspires me to get my buns moving and get the thing done before I am
90.
Bill Costello
--
___ _____________________________
\ \ _ _ / /
\ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello Chicago \
X-*#####*******......./ N97WC (reserved) /
o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on left elev. \
\__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com /
\____________________________\
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Jig Height ?? |
You wrote:
>
>I realize this has been asked before... and I even wrote it down, but
>now that it's time to actually build my jig I can't find the
measurement
>for the height of the cross-piece on the H-shaped jig.
>
>Looking for suggestions.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Rod Woodard
>RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
>RV-8 Empennage kit ordered
>
>
>
A few inches below waist height seemed to work well for me. All work
on the empennage is done above the cross beam. The wings are built on
additional braces you mount on the uprights.
Regards,
Bill Costello
--
___ _____________________________
\ \ _ _ / /
\ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello Chicago \
X-*#####*******......./ N97WC (reserved) /
o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on left elev. \
\__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com /
\____________________________\
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lurker comming clean ... |
Frank,
Anyone can build a RV even more so now that the quick builds are out . Becki
and I have built and flown 2 so far , we have videos showing step by step how
to build , and also a video showing the tools and skills needed to build
RV's. Please feel free to write or call at 301-293-1505 any time, also we
will be in the Ft Worth area in June if you would like to see both a finished
and an under construction RV6.Happy flying
....George & Becki Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PatK(at)gnn.com (Patrick Kelley) |
| Subject: | Re: Jig Height ?? |
>From: lawyernet.com!rwoodard(at)matronics.com
>Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Jig Height ??
>
>I realize this has been asked before... and I even wrote it down, but
>now that it's time to actually build my jig I can't find the measurement
>for the height of the cross-piece on the H-shaped jig.
>
>Looking for suggestions.
>
I put mine at about belt level; this made it easy to build the spars on the
cross-piece and then assembling the skeletons and skins was at about chest
level. Much lower and you would have to stoop. Much higher and you would
need a step-stool to comfortably rivet some of the higher rivets. Hope this
helps.
PatK - RV-6A - will those spars EVER get riveted? :)
>Thanks,
>
>Rod Woodard
>RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
>RV-8 Empennage kit ordered
>
>
PatK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PatK(at)gnn.com (Patrick Kelley) |
| Subject: | Re: Lurker comming clean ... |
My wife is in med school, so she is not home enough to be bothered by the
building. Since we are living in an apartment until we find out where she
will be doctoring, I am doing most of my building in the living room (some
fabrication is done outdoors on warm, sunny days). The tail/wing jig fits
close to one wall, can be manuevered out for working on the backside, and
also holds most of the larger tools and parts. A table and desk are my
workbenches and usually reside on my covered patio, unless I need to work
indoors. A toolbox and box for smaller parts round out my storage solution,
and the compressor also resides on the patio. While I'm working, the living
room is about as crowded as any normal shop. When I'm done, about ten
minutes of tidying causes it to revert to a normal living room with an
interesting sculpture on one wall. I have plenty of floor space for parties,
etc. (not that we ever have any). The only real concession to homekeeping is
that the jig is built from cedar, so that it keeps everything smelling fresh.
Answer: you can overcome any obstacle with a little planning.
>From: Frank L Laczko Sr <l1.conline.com!flaczko(at)matronics.com>
>Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: RV Mailing List
>Subject: RV-List: Lurker comming clean ...
>
>I have been reading this list, and contemplating the magnitude of the job
>involved in building a plane, particularly a fairly complex one like the
>RV-6A. I have considered it a few times in the past, but to quote my
>wife, "common sense overtook me" at the last minute.
>
>A little background - I am 64, design audio and video compression chips
>for a living at Texas Instruments, and have been accused of having three
>left hands in the past. Furthermore, following - or reading -
>instructions have never been my strong suit. I have about 2000 hours as
>PIC, mostly in Mooneys. Owned a number of planes, from a C120 (never
>learned to land it without bouncing) to an Aircoupe and 3 Mooneys. Don't
>have a plane now - I bought a sailboat, but found that sailing will never
>replace flying - and am suffering from severe withdrawal symptons.
>
>Long introduction - the question is - can a mere mortal REALY
>complete an RV-6a in a reasonable period of time? and stay married in the
>process? I read with some admiration about some of the list members
>working on their second or third RV. Where do you find the time?
>
>I live in Allen, Texas - would love to talk to any builders in this area.
>Maybe I just need a little transfusion of self confidence (only on
>building planes - people accuse me of having too much on other subjects).
>
>Sorry for being long-winded.
>
>Frank L Laczko Sr.
>flaczko(at)conline.com
>214-480-6395 (day)
PatK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Acker <75104.3077(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | What's wrong...? |
>> I'm not getting any repeated messages from other rv-listers, but if you send
something to the list it will be repeated back to you. I guess you can call it
an echo or something, but at least that way you know your message got through!
<<
I know about *one* message coming back (which is great for verification)...but
I
am getting about 10-30 copies of some of the messages posted here. I have
50-100 messages a day from the list now, mostly repeats!
Then again...it could be just us folk on Compu$erve...I've been meaning to
switch to a dedicated provider, because c'serve internet access is terrible (and
the homebuilding forum has been taken over by Glas*.* builders ).
Listers: Any recommendations on full-service providers? I've been looking at
Sprynet and Netcom for $19.95 unlimited use.
Thanks for the response.
Rob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDelveau(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Spar Assembly Problem |
Boy, I love to hear the completion stories, congragulations!
But back to the subject - I am trying to determine how to deal with a hole
alignment problem with the -6 wing spar. I have the spreader bars riveted in
place and am at the point of stacking up the spar flange strips in
preparation for setting the 3/16 rivets. The alignment problem is that one
of the thin flange strips had a slight twist and bow in it near the wing
root.
This is causing a lot of problem geting the bolts into that end of the spar,
even just the two long strips and the spar and doubler parts. I have not yet
tried to add to the stack the other (shorter) flange strips. I think I could
get it all together but not without a lot of effort. I wonder if I ill have
a lot of trouble with the final attaching of the wings, getting bolts in and
out as many times as is required during riveting and assembly and whatever
else?
The other spar seems ok and even the opposite (bottom) side of the problem
spar is ok. I didn't notice a problem until I got to this point of course.
I am looking for thoughts such as "well, if you can get all the rivets in
with the large bolts in place and then get the blts back out you are home
free", or "Not a chance - order all new spar parts because..."
Sorry to be so long winded - sure glad to hear about completions, I needed
something to keep me going!
Jim Delveau RV-6A Wing Spar(s)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
>tires. The original McCrearys lasted 63 hours. The Goodyear Flight Custom
>tires have lasted 191 hours and have some more time on them. They'd have
>even more if I would have rotated them in a timely manner.
Speaking of tires, I just received my finishing kit. Has anyone ever heard
of Aero-Trainer tires? That's what I received for the mains. For the nose I
got a Lamb (made in Taiwan) non-TSO'd ultralight-type tire with a Chin Shing
(sp?) tube. Is this standard? My info packet from Van's specifies McCreary
tires and tubes.
I know McCreary's aren't the greatest, but what the heck is an Aero-Trainer?
-- Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terryg(at)SceptreCal.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM |
| Subject: | Electric Elevator Trim Servo Lead |
Folks -- I sent this note a couple of days ago, and didn't see it show
up on the 'List, so I'm sending it again. I apologize in advance if
this turns out to be a repeat performance...
Previously Sent Note
|
|
V
'Listers -- I'm installing electric elevator trim in my -6, and I'm
wondering about the holes in the HS and the elevator spars to
accommodate the servo lead. I'm thinking that I'll put a snap bushing
in each (anti-chafe), but I'm also wondering if a second (slightly
smaller) hole right next to the first might also make sense, so that
the lead can be tied down in some way. Should I be concerned about
the cut out in the leading edge of the elevator also chafing the servo
lead?
Any thoughts that you have on the above, or alternative suggestions
would be very much appreciated. Thanx to all for all of your help.
Terry in Calgary
S/N 24414
"Skinning Horizontal Stabilizer"
PS. Actually, finished priming skins over the weekend, hope to rivet
first side of skins tomorrow night...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
| Subject: | Re: Shortening of sticks |
Hey John,
Could you give us some details on your throttle setup, I plan on a L. hand
throttle on my -6 but have not come in contact with anyone that has done it.
I guess my questions are:
What throttle quadrant did you use? How did you mount it and did you retain
the center vernier throttle? What unforseen problems did you run into?
I sure appreciate your insight on this.
Eric Henson
>> I even have the throttle on the left side of the cockpit.<<
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aero Trainer Tires |
Ed Bundy asks:
> I know McCreary's aren't the greatest, but what the heck is an Aero-Trainer?
Aero Trainer is the private brand name of Desser Tire and Rubber
West Coast: East Coast:
6900 Acco Street 1230 Kansas Street
Montebello CA 90640 Memphis TN 38106
Phones: (800)247-8473
(213)721-4900
(213)721-7888 fax
600-6 6 ply $35.95 500-5 6 ply $32.95
Hank Eilts
about to start an RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Gottschalk ((301) 286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Lurker comming clean ... |
I'm curious, how do you maintain correct level/plumb on your jig if you move
it back and forth during the building process? I know I have enough
problems keeping my wood jig aligned without moving it. Do you reset the
level/plumb each time you move it?
Your wife must either be out most of the time (like whenever your home) or
she is VERY understanding. I have quite a pile in the living room myself,
it fills the room, but I was thrown out of the basement to make room for my
wife's hobby, so I'm temporarily excused.
Good luck with your project! Your right, all obstacles can be overcome,
sometimes it just takes a while.
-Gene Gottschalk, RV6a, fuse going into the jig.
At 09:20 AM 4/24/96, you wrote:
===============================
>I am doing most of my building in the living room (some
>fabrication is done outdoors on warm, sunny days). The tail/wing jig fits
>close to one wall, can be manuevered out for working on the backside, and
>also holds most of the larger tools and parts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What's wrong...? |
Rob,
I have the same problem. I get some messages dozens of times.
I'm not on compuserve. I'm at work. I think we're connected via
sprint; nothing like the connection an individual would have.
Don
>
> >> I'm not getting any repeated messages from other rv-listers, but if you send
> something to the list it will be repeated back to you. I guess you can call
it
> an echo or something, but at least that way you know your message got through!
> <<
>
> I know about *one* message coming back (which is great for verification)...but
I
> am getting about 10-30 copies of some of the messages posted here. I have
> 50-100 messages a day from the list now, mostly repeats!
>
> Then again...it could be just us folk on Compu$erve...I've been meaning to
> switch to a dedicated provider, because c'serve internet access is terrible (and
> the homebuilding forum has been taken over by Glas*.* builders ).
>
> Listers: Any recommendations on full-service providers? I've been looking at
> Sprynet and Netcom for $19.95 unlimited use.
>
> Thanks for the response.
>
> Rob.
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Don Karl karl@dg-rtp.dg.com (919)248-5915
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: What's wrong...? |
>--------------
>Rob,
>
>I have the same problem. I get some messages dozens of times.
>I'm not on compuserve. I'm at work. I think we're connected via
>sprint; nothing like the connection an individual would have.
>
>Don Karl
>--------------
Okay guys, let's be fair. Yesterday someone subscribed the List to the List
and over the next hour or so maybe a dozen or so 'copies' of the same message
went out. Thanks to a couple of List members who called to say, "Hey, the
List has gone bonkers...", I was able to get things fixed up pretty quickly.
So, do these 'dozens' of messages really come in all the time - even when
the List isn't 'broken'?
Matt Dralle
RV-List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Gottschalk ((301) 286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | What's wrong...? |
Rob,
It's not compuserve, I'm getting them too. Since it's only from the rv-list
I assume it's at Matronics. I sent a note to Matt, I guess he will check it
when he gets time.
-Gene
===================================
>>> I'm not getting any repeated messages from other rv-listers, but if you send
>something to the list it will be repeated back to you. I guess you can call it
>an echo or something, but at least that way you know your message got through!
><<
>
>I know about *one* message coming back (which is great for
verification)...but I
>am getting about 10-30 copies of some of the messages posted here. I have
>50-100 messages a day from the list now, mostly repeats!
>
>Then again...it could be just us folk on Compu$erve...I've been meaning to
>switch to a dedicated provider, because c'serve internet access is terrible
(and
>the homebuilding forum has been taken over by Glas*.* builders ).
>
>Listers: Any recommendations on full-service providers? I've been looking at
>Sprynet and Netcom for $19.95 unlimited use.
>
>Thanks for the response.
>
>Rob.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNES_ERIC(at)tandem.com |
| Subject: | Coming clean, Part II |
Hi everyone - figured it was about time I introduced myself. I got on
the list last fall while finishing up grad school, then took the summer
off (Germany), and returned when I started my present job last
September.
ME - 30 year old financial analyst with a SF Bay Area high tech company.
PPL 2 1/2 years ago in Iowa (home town), but I only have 60 hours.
Student loans don't cover flying time.
WIFE - Married one year, United Flight Attendant (gone a couple days a
week - guess what I'm going to do with the time), and "merges to
A-scale" in July (guess what we're going to do with the $). She's very
supportive, and says she'll help with the riveting, but I don't think
she has any idea what an RV is going to take. Heck, I don't think I
do! But, like Jim Cole said, it's a lot of little jobs strung
together.
RVs ETC. - Spent a day at Sun & Fun last Friday - what a blast! The
weather was *perfect* this year. Saw quite a few really nice RVs.
Didn't get to meet anyone from the list though - too much ground to
cover in one day...and I'm a bit shy.
I was planning on building a -4, but then I got the wife in the back
seat and me in the front seat of the -8. I'm sold! Only thing I
don't like is the lack of cheek cowls ;) . She promised me we will
order the tail kit in July.
We bought a house in January and I'm setting up the shop (15'x 20'
space). The list has already come in handy, as I've bought tools and
am planning my building space. I hope to hit a lot of the EAA/RV
events across the country this year and meet a lot of you.
Eric Barnes
Barnes_Eric(at)tandem.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Immelmann(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: What's wrong...? |
Your'e not the only one with lots of repeat messages about intercoms. I'm on
AOL so I doubt that it's only a compuserve problem. Maybe whoever is sending
the messages is getting some kind of error message and is sending multiple
times thinking he is not getting through.
Reading with great interest of everbody's trails, tribulations and sucsesses.
Owner of RV6 plans and high hopes,
Ed in Northridge
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | csanchez(at)BayNetworks.com (Cheryl Sanchez) |
| Subject: | Re: Spar Assembly Problem |
>
>Boy, I love to hear the completion stories, congragulations!
>
>But back to the subject - I am trying to determine how to deal with a hole
>alignment problem with the -6 wing spar. I have the spreader bars riveted in
>place and am at the point of stacking up the spar flange strips in
>preparation for setting the 3/16 rivets. The alignment problem is that one
>of the thin flange strips had a slight twist and bow in it near the wing
>root.
>
>This is causing a lot of problem geting the bolts into that end of the spar,
>even just the two long strips and the spar and doubler parts. I have not yet
>tried to add to the stack the other (shorter) flange strips. I think I could
>get it all together but not without a lot of effort. I wonder if I ill have
>a lot of trouble with the final attaching of the wings, getting bolts in and
>out as many times as is required during riveting and assembly and whatever
>else?
>
>The other spar seems ok and even the opposite (bottom) side of the problem
>spar is ok. I didn't notice a problem until I got to this point of course.
> I am looking for thoughts such as "well, if you can get all the rivets in
>with the large bolts in place and then get the blts back out you are home
>free", or "Not a chance - order all new spar parts because..."
>
>Sorry to be so long winded - sure glad to hear about completions, I needed
>something to keep me going!
>
>Jim Delveau RV-6A Wing Spar(s)
>
Jim,
I had to push a little to get the strips to line up on my
RV-3 spar. One of the strips had a bow in it that made it want to
not lay flush with the others.
In the -3 manual, they show to use clamps with blocks of wood
to hold the strips in alignment. Put a couple of sets top-to-botton and
a couple more left-to-right. By gradually tightening the clamps it pulls
everything into alignment. It worked for me.
Cheryl Sanchez
csanchez(at)world.std.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Becki Orndorff <rso(at)css.ncifcrf.gov> |
| Subject: | Spar Assembly Problem |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB31EE.1E1FD240
Jim,
Check to see if you have flipped one of the pieces. That could be the
=
cause of the misalignment. The fit of the rivets and bolts should be =
tight in the spar.
You should only have to put the wings on once and leave them on. After
=
putting all those bolts in, you won't want to take them out.
Becki Orndorff
----------
From: =
aol.com!JDelveau(at)matronics.com[SMTP:aol.com!JDelveau(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 1996 11:03 AM
Subject: RV-List: Spar Assembly Problem
Boy, I love to hear the completion stories, congragulations!
But back to the subject - I am trying to determine how to deal with a =
hole
alignment problem with the -6 wing spar. I have the spreader bars =
riveted in
place and am at the point of stacking up the spar flange strips in
preparation for setting the 3/16 rivets. The alignment problem is that =
one
of the thin flange strips had a slight twist and bow in it near the wing
root.
This is causing a lot of problem geting the bolts into that end of the =
spar,
even just the two long strips and the spar and doubler parts. I have =
not yet
tried to add to the stack the other (shorter) flange strips. I think I =
could
get it all together but not without a lot of effort. I wonder if I ill =
have
a lot of trouble with the final attaching of the wings, getting bolts in =
and
out as many times as is required during riveting and assembly and =
whatever
else?
The other spar seems ok and even the opposite (bottom) side of the =
problem
spar is ok. I didn't notice a problem until I got to this point of =
course.
I am looking for thoughts such as "well, if you can get all the rivets =
in
with the large bolts in place and then get the blts back out you are =
home
free", or "Not a chance - order all new spar parts because..."
Sorry to be so long winded - sure glad to hear about completions, I =
needed
something to keep me going!
Jim Delveau RV-6A Wing Spar(s)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Left side throttle |
Richard;
>Seem to me that if you ever did want to add a center throttle, you might
>as well hook it to the bottom of the quadrant lever.
Might work, if connected correctly.
>(Actually, might as well go with a right side throttle for the right >seat.)
If your desired results is to fly with the stick in your right hand and the
throttle in the left, this might require a contortionist.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6-Electric flaps |
>Has anyone retrofitted electric flaps to their RV-6? I'm considering doing
>this conversion. I can't seem to keep my buckles from finding the painted
Bob, did you copy my message regarding my retrofit of elec. flaps on my -6.
If not, and want my life story of the trials and tribulations of
retrofitting Elec. Flaps To RV6s, (damm easy), let me know.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cut down metal props |
>I have a very good friend who lost his repitched metal prop on his RV-4. We
>had just finished a three RV vacation throughout the Rocky Mountains. His
>prop failed over Sweetwater, Texas and was fortunate to make an emergency
>landing at the airport. He had approximately 200 hours on the metal prop.
> Considering the damage it caused to his airplane and the thought of what
>would have happened only a few hours earlier, when we were flying over
>mountainous terrain, he was very fortunate to survive. Others have not been
>so lucky. If you have to have a metal prop, then buy the Sensenitch fixed
>pitch or a Hartzel constant speed. It simply isn't worth risking your life
>to modify a metal prop.
>
>Rick McBride
>RV-6 N523JC
>flying four years, 340 hours
Rick, Had your friends' prop undergone any vibration testing? Was this one
of Bob Brashear's props? Did the prop fail 14-17" in from the tip? Any
additional information that would be helpful to those considering one of
these "experimental" props, I'm sure, would be appreciated. In other words,
maybe describe what happens to the airplane and what goes through the
pilot's mind. Me, I'm just finishing the spinner installation on the new
Sensenich, 70CM6s16-077 (the "factory" RV prop) and have no interest in the
"experimental" prop. Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel |
>Bob,
> ... I've ben talking to these guys, and none seem to be able to
>do small lettering (< 1/4 inch). What is your smallest size? and who did
>you use?
>
> To me, this really does sound like the only way to go!
>
> ... thanks ... Gil Alexander
>
>PS waiting for some samples from a guy in the Model Aircraft mag. who may
>be able to do this...
>
Gil, The company I did business with is called "Sign Center" I believe the
owners name is Craig. The phone number is 308-237-2518. I'm not sure how
small the letters are but they fit OK in the appropriate locations. I
guessing between 1/4"-5/16". (I could go out to the airport and measure the
height of the letters, tommorow.) I'm sure they would be willing to send
you a sample (off of the disk they saved my panel placards on). I'm sure
they would tell you the info you need so you could see if you could obtain
lettering locally. Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
I've gotten some requests from people who wanted to see pictures of
my project. Most of you will find them a little dull, but those who
are still in the Thinking About It stage may want to take a look.
There's only 4 so far. I'll add more as I find good ones.
http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg/rv.html
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Hartmann <hartmann(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Question on wing aileron and flap alignment. |
>I am building an RV6A and have a possible problem with the aileron / flap
>
>>>> Heres the problem:
>
>On the top side of the wing where the aileron and flap meet, up 9.5 inches
>from the trailing edge, the flap skin is approximately 1/4 inch higher than
>the aileron skin (note, this also means that the bottom skin of the aileron
>is 1/4 inch lower than the flap at 9.5 inches up from the trailing edge, and
>the bottom leading edge of the aileron appears to be dipping slightly lower
>than the bottom of the rear spar wing skin) . This perplexes me as the
>tooling holes on the outboard and inboard flap/aileron wing rib all line up.
Have you checked the distance from the rear spar to the trailing edge of the
flap and aileron? It seems to me that both should be about 14 inches, but I
remember it seeming a little tricky. How well do the tooling holes line up
when the flap or aileron is clamped in place with the airfoil template?
When you say the tooling holes inboard and outboard line up do you mean
outboard on the aileron and inboard on the flap, and if so, what is
happening in the middle?
It might be possible for the flap or aileron to be very slightly twisted
(I've looked at a lot of them, and a lot of them are).
What I'm thinking is, try to establish a condition about where you are now,
with the outboard aileron tooling holes aligned with the outboard wing rib
and the inboard flap tooling holes aligned with the inboard wing rib, and
the spacing between the aileron and flap nominal with the trailing edges
aligned. Then push the flap or aileron or both up or down as necessary to
align them in the middle. I remember the lower skin that the flap mounts to
as being a little bowed after riveting to the spar. If your rear spar lower
flange angle isnt quite right it might be even worse. Try the airfoil
templates to check the alignment of the flap - if they're accurate, they
don't lie.
I used the airfoil templates to trap the aileron exactly in trail up and
down and let the hinges locate it fore/aft. I then installed the flap to
match the aileron again using the airfoil templates. I guess the tricky part
was that the lower skin that the flap attaches to had enough 'give' up and
down that I had to be careful to keep it clamped exactly where I wanted it
until I could drill the flap brace to the spar.
Good luck
- Mike
hartmann(at)sound.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6-Electric flaps |
Bob,
I retrofitted electric flaps in my first RV6A , it was a day job something to
do on a rainy day. The parts fit well and the wiring was easy to do , running
the main wire from the switch to the flap servo in the center section with
the trim cable. The electric flaps are a great addition and you well thank
yourself . Keep em flying....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wesleyt <wesleyt(at)twave.net> |
| Subject: | mounting strobe power pack |
I have bought the dual strobe power supply light kit from Van's and I
have a question about where to mount the power supply in the wing tip.
(1) Should I mount it to the end rib with nutplates & screws or to the
main spar?
(2) Would a crimped and heat tube connection be enough to connect the
strobe power supply to the wing wiring?
Wesley Robinson
RV-6A Deburring & Dimpling left wing skin & ribs (very repetitious)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cut down metal props |
Rick,
This one sounds very similar to the one that was based in the metro plex,
had been repitched 6 times against advice as well had chewed about 6 feet
off of a Piper wing and still was in service. It may not be the same one,
but if so, I wonder if it would have done the same if it were a factory
model that had been put through that experience.
If not the same prop, do you know if it had been vib. tested? What rpm did
the owner normally cruise at? Had it been modified by the Steve Whitman
process or were thye blades still the same width as original?
Not wanting to argue the point with you, I'm not and advocate either way,
just want more data to make an informed decission.
John D
>I have a very good friend who lost his repitched metal prop on his RV-4. We
>had just finished a three RV vacation throughout the Rocky Mountains. His
>prop failed over Sweetwater, Texas and was fortunate to make an emergency
>landing at the airport. He had approximately 200 hours on the metal prop.
> Considering the damage it caused to his airplane and the thought of what
>would have happened only a few hours earlier, when we were flying over
>mountainous terrain, he was very fortunate to survive. Others have not been
>so lucky. If you have to have a metal prop, then buy the Sensenitch fixed
>pitch or a Hartzel constant speed. It simply isn't worth risking your life
>to modify a metal prop.
>
>Rick McBride
>RV-6 N523JC
>flying four years, 340 hours
>
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: left throttle, right seat? |
Ed,
I left the mix. and carb. heat on the center console. I see no reason to
duplicate every thing. I had thought of flying copilot all the time, but
when I realized that 99 percent or so of my flying is for me, and the rest
just straight and level or so for the rt sider, I went the single throt. on
the left side. I don't plan to do any instructing in my bird. I realize
that I did give up some flexibility when I went single throt. on the left,
but to me it is worth it. My entire flying career was left throt., why
change in my twilight years. Something about old dogs and new tricks.
John D
>We all want a left throttle so we can fly with the right hand. If you move
>the throttle, do you also move the mixture and carb heat? If so, it seems
>that it would be hard to fly from the right seat. Or you have to duplicate
>all the engine controls.
>I was thinking about sitting in the right seat and reversing the layout of
>the panel. that way both seats have access to the engine controls without
>redundancy.
>
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JIM SCHMIDT <JIM-SCHMIDT(at)mail.mei.com> |
| Subject: | Aileron /Flap Alignment |
Scott I would not worry about the tooling hole position. No where
that I can remember, in the plans or directions does it ever say
to align to tooling holes. Make an alignment jig from the airfoil
thats on the plywood lid of the crate the wing kit came in and
use that to align the flaps and ailerons to the wing skin
airfoil. Be sure to maitain the trailing edge( top view)
alignment and the top to botton alignemt. I had to get a new
aileron mount bracket as I focused on the for and aft and forgot
about the up and down. This should equate to the 1/4 crack mor or
less.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6-Electric flaps |
>Bob,
>
>I would be real cautious about putting flaps on the stick. Inadvertant flap
>extension at VNE could be structurally disastrous. It is usual cockpit
>ergonomic to put flaps somewhere where it takes a positive effort to deploy
>them.
Thanks for the good thought. I'll forget the flap control on the stick. Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Johnson, Steve" <spjohnson(at)msmail.mmmg.com> |
| Subject: | Cleaner Question? |
>What can I use to remove the tanish-yellowish auto fuel stains on my white
>Imron paint? I use a combination of Fleetwash and Carbon-X aircraft cleaners
>when washing the plane but these just don't remove the fuel stains.
>Any Ideas?
>Thanks - Greg Bordelon
>greg(at)brokersys.com
>Houston TX
>final assembling Rob Lee's 6A
Greg,
Try Turtle Wax one step automotive paste wax. That worked on my Citabria.
Steve Johnson
spjohnson(at)mmm.com
RV-8 Gonnabuild
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HEINEKEN <Beerguy(at)cris.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Golf clubs in RV??? |
Dear Don,
I don't think your message is stupid. I have been researching the RV
extensively before making a decision to build one (that's why I
subscribed). I can honestly say that the golf club question is the sole
reason I have not ordered the first kit. It's seems an -6 fits the bill
in every other way.
Thanks for asking the question, if the answers are good enough, I will
order the empennage next week!
Fred Heinecke
Still researching
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hovan <hovan(at)apple.com> |
| Subject: | RV Web Page Update |
Hi All,
With all the recent talk on instrument panels, many folks will be
happy to know that Mike Talley's comprehensive instrument panel
documenation has been posted to the RV web page I keep. The files
are available ONLY on the mirror site and are under the Frank
Justice manual addition files. You can find the materials using
this address....
http://packlid.austin.apple.com/jhovan/home.html
There are several more documents that need published, I should have
these available over the next couple of weeks.
Take a look, and be sure to send Mike a note if you use them. He
has done a great job creating this extensive library!
thanks and enjoy!
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Acker <75104.3077(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Battery location... |
Listers:
At sun'n'fun, I noticed several RV-6's that did not have the battery box in the
cockpit. This appeals to me for safety reasons (cite last year's accident of a
battery exploding in an RV-4, resulting in a fatality), and it makes for that
much more room in the cockpit (with my size 13's every bit helps).
I can only assume these batteries have been moved forward of the firewall (which
would also help out aft c.g., since I weigh 220 and plan on a fixed-pitch prop).
Where does one mount the battery? What about extra g-load on the firewall
and/or motor mount?
Regards,
Rob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question on wing aileron and flap alignment. |
Scott,
This might be a little late, because your flap is already drilled, but I got
excellent results with the following method:
1. Wings were still in the jig.
2. I used the plywood template as the primary alignment device and then
double checked alignment with the tooling holes.
3. Clamp the aileron on first. Use both plywood templates for alignment.
Make sure that the aileron can't move at all, remove the templates. Mount
the flap using the templates for alignment. Clamp the flap so that it can't
move at all. Double/ triple check alignment with the templates at various
positions. Run a string from the outboard trailing edge of the aileron to
the inboard trailing edge of flap. The inboard t.e. of the aileron and
outboard t.e. of the flap should be in alignment with this string.
4. Put the templates back on the aileron. If everything looks good, drill
the outboard aileron mount. Remove the templates. Place one on the inboard
end of the aileron and the other on the outboard end of the flap. Double
check all measurement and then drill the inboard aileron mount. Put both
templates on the flap, then drill the flap.
*note*
While using the above method, I was continually checking the "other"
measurements (distance from wing spar, horizontal position on wing, 1/4" gap
between aileron and flap, etc.) If you drill the inboard aileron mount and
outboard end of the flap with a template on the inboard end of the aileron
and one on the outboard end of the flap, the aileron/flap juncture has to be
perfect (assuming the templates were cut correctly).
The above might seem a little long winded (it took me about 20 hours to do
both wings), but my trailing edges are now perfect.
You can probably modify the above to fit you current situation. If you flap
is misaligned, you can probably fix it by getting another flap brace from
Van's (the part is cheap).
If you need any clarification, don't hesitate to ask.
-Scott N506RV (waiting on O-320 from Van's)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
| Subject: | Air Drill/Squeezers |
I'm in the process of making a list of tools to order from Avery and
Cleaveland. I've compared my list against several that I obtained from
rv-listers and think I've come up with an OK list to get me started on
the empennage of an -8 to be shipped within the next couple of weeks,
I'm told. A few questions:
1. I realize the ideal is to have a hand squeezer and a pneumatic. If
I just buy a 3" pneumatic, can I get by without the hand squeezer?
2. My sister's husband is an auto painter. He says I won't like
working with an air drill because they use too much CFM from the air
compresser. He says I should just use my cordless Makita drill. I
checked this morning and my Makita only goes to 600 rpm. Most air
drills go to at least 2000 rpm. Is this why I need an air drill.... or
do I really need an air drill at all?
3. Without hurting anyone's pride or taking anything away from Avery's
fine reputation, it seems that many people recommend buying dimple dies
and rivet sets from Cleaveland rather than from Avery. Any thoughts on
this?
Thanks in advance!
Rod Woodard
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
RV-8 empennage ordered 4/9/96
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terryg(at)SceptreCal.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Baking paint: Was: RV-6-Electric flaps |
One other option, assuming that the flap handle is steel, is to powder coat. I
got all of the steel in the empennage done for about $40. My jobber is able to
do something like 300 different colours, so it should be no problem matching
your colour scheme. It worked for me!
Cheers...
Terry in Calgary
S/N 24414
"Riveting Skin on Left HS"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KHarrill(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Spar Assembly Problem |
> The alignment problem is that one
>of the thin flange strips had a slight twist and bow in it near the wing
>root.
Jim,
I just finished my spars a couple of weeks ago. I had the exact same
problem. I used several AN3 bolts along the root, where the bow seemed to
be, to hold everything in alignment while I riveted. It was annoying but
worked OK. The thicker flange strips were all straight.
Hope this helps.
Ken Harrill
RV 6 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Edwards <CBE(at)synon.com> |
| Subject: | Instrument Panel |
Last week at Sun-n-Fun I found a computer product called Panel Planner
which had the RV panel in it. It had instruments and radios which you
could move around on your panel then print out on a plotter, which would
provide a template to cut from. It also kept track of cost. Interactive
Solutions 800-952-1250
Chris Edwards
cbe(at)synon.com
Dallas, TX
RV-8 coming soon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Electric Flaps ( DC switches ) |
You wrote:
>
>Marcus,
>You're right about the switches, I didn't know all of that until I
read Bob
>Nuckles book. But the sw. that I got is for DC.
>John D
>>
>>johnd@our-town.com wrote:
>>> David, I put one in my RV6. The switch did not come with my kit, I
got one
>>> at Radio Shack (3 position, up off and down, spring loaded to off).
>>
>>
>>
>> Thought i'd post a caution here. Many switches are not rated for
>> DC use. The AC rating of a switch may be much higher than it's DC
>> rating. An AC circuit switches off 120 time per second anyway,
making
>> the switches job easier. Also switches on motors may require a
diode.
>> The switch may fail on, and not be able to be turned off ( contacts
>> welding? )
>>
>> Maybe this is all made more then clear elsewhere, so i hope i'm
>> not belaboring the point. Perhaps someone else with the real answer
>> will speak up. Having said all this the landing light switch on my
>> 172 seems like a piece of junk and over-heated once.
>>
>> Marcus Barrow
>> barrow(at)zk3.dec.com
>>
>John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
>johnd@our-town.com
>
>
You can have the switch operate a relay that would handle the larger
currents to the motor, this takes the load off of the switch.
Ed Cole RV6A 24430
ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Hartmann <hartmann(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Drill/Squeezers |
>I'm in the process of making a list of tools to order from Avery and
>Cleaveland. I've compared my list against several that I obtained from
>1. I realize the ideal is to have a hand squeezer and a pneumatic. If
>I just buy a 3" pneumatic, can I get by without the hand squeezer?
I've never used a pneumatic, but I think if you can only have one or the
other you should get the hand squeezer. On some of the lighter parts the
pneumatic seems like it might be overkill, and a little cumbersome to
handle. As I said, I don't have a pneumatic so it might not bee so bad
(just expensive).
>2. My sister's husband is an auto painter. He says I won't like
>working with an air drill because they use too much CFM from the air
>compresser. He says I should just use my cordless Makita drill. I
>checked this morning and my Makita only goes to 600 rpm. Most air
>drills go to at least 2000 rpm. Is this why I need an air drill.... or
>do I really need an air drill at all?
I've been using a Makita rechargable, my air drill is reserved for those
times that I need to drill a lot of holes at once, like wing skins. Even
then for me the air drill is more of a nuisance that it's worth. If you
decide to use your rechargable and don't already have a second battery, get
one. I can charge a battery in about the same amount of time it takes to
run one down while drilling. There was enough drilling do do on the wings
at one time to need the second battery.
I can't tell any difference in the holes drilled even though they say you
should use the higher RPM for aluminum. My compressor can keep up with the
air drill in intermittant use, as when drilling - it's off more than it's on.
My main complaint about the air drill is that it is cumbersome with the air
hose attached, and together weighs about the same as my rechargable. My
second complaint is that it is a little messy, getting a mist of oil on
everything. The biggest advantage to the air drill is that when you let go
of the trigger it stops almost imediately, but I still prefer my Makita.
>3. Without hurting anyone's pride or taking anything away from Avery's
>fine reputation, it seems that many people recommend buying dimple dies
>and rivet sets from Cleaveland rather than from Avery. Any thoughts on
>this?
Me too. I recommed Avery as the best mail and telephone order business I
have ever dealt with, and I've bought, and will buy, a lot of tools from
them, but I do like the Cleaveland dimple dies better. For some reason the
Cleaveland's seem to make a slightly deeper, cleaner dimple that lets the
rivet sit more flush. They also have a special die for the tanks that makes
an even deeper dimple to leave room for the Proseal.
I've got back riveting sets from both, and I like the one from Avery better
- the one from Cleaveland mars the skin around the rivet a little.
If you have some time to kill, I just added some thoughts on tools to my web
page at http://www.sound.net/~hartmann. Follow the 'more about the RV-6A'
link, then the builder hints link, to the tools page.
Good luck with your -8
- Mike
hartmann(at)sound.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bobh(at)synopsys.com (Bob Haan) |
| Subject: | Re: Air Drill/Squeezers |
I purchased the hand and the pneumatic squeezers and have never used the
hand squeezer. I am about 80% complete with the wing kit.
Regarding yokes. My first choice would be Avery Part # 7755 2-1/2" deep x
1-1/4 Gap for Longerons. I use this yoke the most. Second choice would be
Part # 7730 3" deep x 1-1/4".
The pneumatic squeezer is used all the time. Don't overlook the fact that
it is used to dimple in additon to setting rivets. The quality of the
results and the time saved are very very significant.
>I'm in the process of making a list of tools to order from Avery and
>Cleaveland. I've compared my list against several that I obtained from
>rv-listers and think I've come up with an OK list to get me started on
>the empennage of an -8 to be shipped within the next couple of weeks,
>I'm told. A few questions:
>
>1. I realize the ideal is to have a hand squeezer and a pneumatic. If
>I just buy a 3" pneumatic, can I get by without the hand squeezer?
>
>2. My sister's husband is an auto painter. He says I won't like
>working with an air drill because they use too much CFM from the air
>compresser. He says I should just use my cordless Makita drill. I
>checked this morning and my Makita only goes to 600 rpm. Most air
>drills go to at least 2000 rpm. Is this why I need an air drill.... or
>do I really need an air drill at all?
>
>3. Without hurting anyone's pride or taking anything away from Avery's
>fine reputation, it seems that many people recommend buying dimple dies
>and rivet sets from Cleaveland rather than from Avery. Any thoughts on
>this?
>
>Thanks in advance!
>
>Rod Woodard
>RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
>RV-8 empennage ordered 4/9/96
Bob Haan
Portland, OR
RV6-A both wings in the jigs LEs & Top Skins Riveted on, working on tanks
bobh(at)synopsys.com
Evenings 503-636-3550
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rbusick(at)nmsu.edu (Robert Busick) |
| Subject: | Re: left throttle, right seat? |
>We all want a left throttle so we can fly with the right hand. If you move
>the throttle, do you also move the mixture and carb heat? If so, it seems
>that it would be hard to fly from the right seat. Or you have to duplicate
>all the engine controls.
>I was thinking about sitting in the right seat and reversing the layout of
>the panel. that way both seats have access to the engine controls without
>redundancy.
I am curious as to why we would want left throttle and right hand
to fly. I drive with the left hand and shift with the right. I have
discovered on long driving trips that my left hand is more precise and
skilled than the right hand and I am right handed. Many two seat
mutliengine A/C have the throttle in the center, A-26, B-25, etc. All of
my flying so far has been with throttle right hand and left hand to fly.
I've never experienced the other way and wonder what advantages may be.
Some people have suggested that we should just fly from the right
seat and we will have throttle left hand and fly right hand. Next
question, why do we fly from the left seat? Some pilots I know have told
me that there is no they could be flight instructors because they could
not fly an airplane from the right seat!
Bob Busick
RV-6
rbusick(at)nmsu.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air Drill/Squeezers |
I bought the hand squeezer from Avery and it works fine. I did have to get a
deeper head to get to the rivets on the spar on the rudder and elevators
(3"). I'd be a little concerned about a pneumatic squeezer for the thin gage
parts as the tool must be heavier and maybe more likely to slip and damge
something - 0.016 is pretty fragile. If you have a compressor with a large
enough tank - I think Van's recommends 20 or 25 gallon minimum - the air
drill isn't a problem. I got a new Sears 5 hp oil less with a 25 gal tank and
it handles the drill ok. I use my Makita cordless with the chatteress
deburring tool and I have a second battery and it's needed 'cause they don't
last too long if you're running the drill for lengthly sessions.
Mike Talley - lh elevator RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Panel Layouts and Wiring Diagrams |
For those who asked a while back for the instrument panel and wiring files I
have created for my RV-6 - they are on John Hovan's home page now except for
a few Excel files. The files yet to come are: wiring diagram equipment list,
wire list, primer finish spec and cg calculator. He's working on posting
these in the future. Thanks to John for his efforts.
Mike Talley
RV-6 - lh elevator, wing kit coming July 15th!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Gottschalk ((301) 286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Drill/Squeezers |
Rod,
Following are my opinions.
-Gene Gottschalk
>1. I realize the ideal is to have a hand squeezer and a pneumatic. If
>I just buy a 3" pneumatic, can I get by without the hand squeezer?
You could get by with the hand squeezer only, but not the pneumatic squeezer
only. The hand squeezer is quicker to set up for one shot operations, in
tight quarters and is generally easier to use. The pneumatic squeezer works
best for repetition and, for me anyway, 1/8" rivets (I just never could get
the hang of hand squeezing them and still prefer to set them with the rivet
gun and bucking bar if the pneumatic squeezer doesn't fit, but takes longer
to get set up correctly. I wish I bought my pneumatic squeezer the first
day! I picked it up at Sun & Fun used for $250. The one Aevery sells looks
more versatile, but carries a higher price tag.
>2. My sister's husband is an auto painter. He says I won't like
>working with an air drill because they use too much CFM from the air
>compresser. He says I should just use my cordless Makita drill. I
>checked this morning and my Makita only goes to 600 rpm. Most air
>drills go to at least 2000 rpm. Is this why I need an air drill.... or
>do I really need an air drill at all?
Your cordless Makita drill should work OK, but it may be inconvenient with
the batteries. My guess is the air drills got popular in metal construction
to avoid the electric shock potential from cut or frayed cords contacting
the aluminum sheet.
>3. Without hurting anyone's pride or taking anything away from Avery's
>fine reputation, it seems that many people recommend buying dimple dies
>and rivet sets from Cleaveland rather than from Avery. Any thoughts on
>this?
I have no opinion on the dimple dies. I've always used the dies from Averys
without problems.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael C. Gamble" <mgamble(at)chiba.netxn.com> |
| Subject: | Delivery report for message to [102370,3241] |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB3356.EEF8AFE0
Everyone got them. I think there was a bounce on one of the subscribers =
because his mailbox was full. The list sends his box a message, the =
mails server at his end sends back a message about undeliverable, the =
list sends this out to evryone, his mail server sends an undeliverable =
message.... You get the idea. One of the problems that you encounter =
with a mail list program.
Mick
----------
From: Bob Skinner[SMTP:ltec.net!BSkinner(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 1996 4:34 PM
Subject: RV-List: Delivery report for message to [102370,3241]
Can anyone tell me what this is all about? Am I the only one getting a =
copy
of these messages or are they going to the entire list? Thanks, Bob =
Skinner
>Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 19:06:22 -0400
>From: CompuServe_Mail <postmaster(at)compuserve.com>
>Subject: Delivery report for message to [102370,3241]
>To: Bob Skinner
>
>Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com (uucp3.netcom.com [163.179.3.3]) by
arl-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515)
>Received: from matronics.com by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP =
(8.6.12/SMI-4.1)
>Received: by matronics.com (4.1/SMI-4.1)
>Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
>Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 16:29:08 -0500
>Message-Id: <199604252129.QAA15358(at)iac1.ltec.net>
>X-Sender: bs65802(at)mail.ltec.net
>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Rudder Cable Routing
>Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Precedence: bulk
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>>I'm jigging up my fuselage bulkheads, and it is obvious that the=20
>>rudder cable holes are not lining up. They do follow a reasonable =
curve,=20
>>except on the F-602 where they angle up somewhat. The plans call for =
the=20
>>holes to be 7" up on the F-602s and 8 5/8" up on the F-604, so =
presumably=20
>>this is correct. My question is: are those black plastic snap-in =
grommets=20
>>supposed to function as fairleads? It looks like the cables will be=20
>>rubbing at the first 4 or 5 bulkheads, and those plastic grommets=20
>>don't look like they would last very long with the cable rubbing=20
>>continuously.
>>
>>Just wondering how it is supposed to work and what everyone else has =
done.
>>
>>Curt Reimer
>
>Curt, I slipped some sheating over my rudder cables. This material =
comes
>in 6 foot lengths and is slit the full length and is reasonabbly =
priced. I
>bought this cable cover from WEST MARINE. Sorry, don't have a number,
>someone borrowed the catalog and failed to return it. I think it's =
used on
>boats to cover cables so as not to snag people and other items. It =
comes in
>various diameters. I think I used 5/16" dia.(1/4" cable?). Besides
>eliminating wear on the snap in bushings, it eleminates the sawing =
noise
>reverberating in the tail cone. I stole this idea from my friend, Andy
>Bajc, from Lincoln, NE. who won an award at S&F several years ago for =
best
>metal---an RV-4.
>Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Acker <75104.3077(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Air Drill/Squeezers |
>> I won't like working with an air drill because they use too much CFM from the
air
compresser. He says I should just use my cordless Makita drill. I checked this
morning and my Makita only goes to 600 rpm. Most air drills go to at least 2000
rpm. Is this why I need an air drill.... or do I really need an air drill at
all? <<
Rod,
I attended Alexander Aeroplane's sheet-metal course. I used a standard 3/8"
electric drill, a makita cordless, and the air drill. I liked the air drill
better by far...better "feel", full trigger control of drill speed, instant
on/off. They did not seem to need any more air than a rivet gun; most all the
drilling we are doing is short bursts, not long drawn out stuff.
Now a die grinder is another matter...that had our compressors running
*constantly* .
Rob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | Air Drill/Squeezers |
I just went through this whole set of questioning for my Avery order
for the "8." I spoke with Martin at Avery who told me that you can't
get away without the hand squeezer. From what I understand (and from
seeing the how to videos) the hand squeezer looks like it gives you
more control, while the pneumatic squeezer lets you avoid repetitive
strain. I just went with the hand. As for the drill, the air drills
are smaller, lighter, faster and more powerful. They also require you
to work with a noisy compressor. I met a local RV builder who is using
just a makita and he is doing fine but all the prof. Aircraft workers I
know swear by high quality air tools. When your bit gets hung up with
an air drill, air blows through. When electric drills (without
clutches) get hung up, the armature heats up kinda quickly. I don't
know much about cleveland, as I just took advantage of the Avery kit
pricing and ordered one of everything from them. They spent quite some
time discussing tool selection with me on the phone and seemed to have
a good reputation on the web.
-Mike
RV-8 order #47. Any day now...
----------
From:
lawyernet.com!rwoodard(at)matronics.com[SMTP:lawyernet.com!rwoodard(at)matro
nics.com]
Sent: Friday, April 26, 1996 7:10 AM
Subject: RV-List: Air Drill/Squeezers
I'm in the process of making a list of tools to order from Avery and
Cleaveland. I've compared my list against several that I obtained from
rv-listers and think I've come up with an OK list to get me started on
the empennage of an -8 to be shipped within the next couple of weeks,
I'm told. A few questions:
1. I realize the ideal is to have a hand squeezer and a pneumatic. If
I just buy a 3" pneumatic, can I get by without the hand squeezer?
2. My sister's husband is an auto painter. He says I won't like
working with an air drill because they use too much CFM from the air
compresser. He says I should just use my cordless Makita drill. I
checked this morning and my Makita only goes to 600 rpm. Most air
drills go to at least 2000 rpm. Is this why I need an air drill.... or
do I really need an air drill at all?
3. Without hurting anyone's pride or taking anything away from Avery's
fine reputation, it seems that many people recommend buying dimple dies
and rivet sets from Cleaveland rather than from Avery. Any thoughts on
this?
Thanks in advance!
Rod Woodard
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
RV-8 empennage ordered 4/9/96
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Drill/Squeezers |
>
> 2. My sister's husband is an auto painter. He says I won't like
> working with an air drill because they use too much CFM from the air
> compresser. He says I should just use my cordless Makita drill. I
> checked this morning and my Makita only goes to 600 rpm. Most air
> drills go to at least 2000 rpm. Is this why I need an air drill.... or
> do I really need an air drill at all?
>
Your sisters husband has never attempted to drill 12,000 holes in Alclad.
The idea of air tools is the ability to controll the speed/power of the tool.
Electric tools suck in IMO. They are big, heavy, and have nowhere near the
controlability of a good air drill motor. If a compressor can't keep up
with a drill, it's not the fault of the drill. Get a bigger compresser.
CP makes a very small 3/8" air drill that can be had for about $75. The
Makita costs way more than that and the first time the battery goes flat
you will have to recharge or buy another (more $$). I have two air drills
and I'm thinking of buying another to save time swapping bits.
> 3. Without hurting anyone's pride or taking anything away from Avery's
> fine reputation, it seems that many people recommend buying dimple dies
> and rivet sets from Cleaveland rather than from Avery. Any thoughts on
> this?
>
The dies I have from Avery are just fine. I couldn't ask for better
results... well, OK I could ask, but I wouldn't get it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Drill/Squeezers |
>2. My sister's husband is an auto painter. He says I won't like
>working with an air drill because they use too much CFM from the air
>compresser. He says I should just use my cordless Makita drill. I
>checked this morning and my Makita only goes to 600 rpm. Most air
>drills go to at least 2000 rpm. Is this why I need an air drill.... or
>do I really need an air drill at all?
>
>3. Without hurting anyone's pride or taking anything away from Avery's
>fine reputation, it seems that many people recommend buying dimple dies
>and rivet sets from Cleaveland rather than from Avery. Any thoughts on
>this?
>
>Thanks in advance!
>
>Rod Woodard
>RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
>RV-8 empennage ordered 4/9/96
>>
Rod,
I never used a pneumatic squeezer, so can't help on that one.
I have use an air drill throughout my entire project (on finishing kit now)
and would HIGHLY recommend one. Mine was bought from Home Depot for about
$25 and works just fine. Benefits that I see from air drills are:
A. No chance of batteries running low (as in a cordless).
B. Higher speeds
C. Lighter
D. Smaller (get into tighter spaces)
E. No need to be portable (such as a cordless)
F. They make a really neat noise when drilling. Nothing beats the high
pitch sound of an air drill when building an airplane :)
The only disadvantage is that the compressor kicks on more frequently - big
deal. If noise is a problem for you, the sound of a compressor is nothing
like the sound of driving 1/8" rivets.
As far as dimple dies go, all mine are from Avery and I get complements on
how well my rivets look from my local EAA chapter. I've never use
Cleveland's, so can't comment on them. The ones from Avery work fine.
-Scott N506RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Main Gear Legs |
I have 'em. Got them from Jerry Harrold in North Plains, OR. I think they
were $160 and included very nice upper gear cuffs. I don't have his number
but if you need it I'll look in my file. A word of caution...he is REAL SLOW
in sending things out.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
| Subject: | Cylinder - THANK YOU |
Thanks to all of you who responded to my cylinder questions and engine =
breakin procedures.=20
The cylinder repair shop wanted $1650 to repair (actually swap) all four =
of my cylinders. Superior Air Parts quoted me $2350 for four of their =
Millennium Series cylinders. I choose to purchase the Millennium =
cylinders. I just could bring myself to spend money on inferior =
cylinders.........with a personality like this I guess thats why I'm =
building an RV. You know, more value for the buck.
Thanks Again!
Greg Bordelon
greg(at)brokersys.com
hanging right wing on Rob Lee's 6A tonite. =20
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Drill/Squeezers |
On Fri, 26 Apr 1996 rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com wrote:
> 2. My sister's husband is an auto painter. He says I won't like
> working with an air drill because they use too much CFM from the air
> compresser. He says I should just use my cordless Makita drill. I
> checked this morning and my Makita only goes to 600 rpm. Most air
> drills go to at least 2000 rpm. Is this why I need an air drill.... or
> do I really need an air drill at all?
In my opinion, definitly get an air drill. The faster the better. You've
got what, 13,000 holes to drill? Besides, the air drill is much lighter.
They do use a fair amount of air though. If your in doubt, borrow an air
drill and compare. I only ever use my electric drill for drywall screws
these days.
>
> 3. Without hurting anyone's pride or taking anything away from Avery's
> fine reputation, it seems that many people recommend buying dimple dies
> and rivet sets from Cleaveland rather than from Avery. Any thoughts on
> this?
I havn't heard this before. The Avery dies are first rate as far as I'm
concerned. I *have* heard that dies *other than* Avery or Cleavland
aren't as good.
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Air Drill/Squeezers |
> 2. My sister's husband is an auto painter. He says I won't like
> working with an air drill because they use too much CFM from the air
> compresser. He says I should just use my cordless Makita drill. I
> checked this morning and my Makita only goes to 600 rpm. Most air
> drills go to at least 2000 rpm. Is this why I need an air drill.... or
> do I really need an air drill at all?
He's basically right about the air drill. I use mine anyways, and I love
it. It's very light and easy to use. I just use ear protection to turn
off the sound of the compressor. I would recommend you find some way of
providing sound protection to the compressor itself -- like put it in a
soundproof room or something. Then it's not an issue.
But I love my air drill.
> 3. Without hurting anyone's pride or taking anything away from Avery's
> fine reputation, it seems that many people recommend buying dimple dies
> and rivet sets from Cleaveland rather than from Avery. Any thoughts on
> this?
I have had fine results with my dies from Avery's. Can't speak for the
Cleaveland.
Something that might not be on your list: cleco clamps. Get a small
handful of the 1-inchers. They're very handy.
On your squeezer -- whichever type you get -- get a deep opening to increase
the number of rivets you can squeeze.
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 90 years old - NOT!!! |
> have a lot of experience but both the military and airline flying was done
>during the same years. I was in the Air Force Reserves for 23 years after 5
>years of active duty. I am only 55 years old.
>
>Jim Cone
>jamescone(at)aol.com
>
>
>
Jim:
Build the RV! I did my -6a in two years and I'm a first time builder (and
looking forward to building another one!). You're still yong enough to get a
lot of enjoyment out of a wonder plane.....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV 685 Hrs TT
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6-Electric flaps |
If this is the case, why does the RV-8 have the flap controls on the
stick? Should there be some kind of lockout device to prevent this?
----------
From: Bob Skinner[SMTP:ltec.net!BSkinner(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Friday, April 26, 1996 6:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6-Electric flaps
>Bob,
>
>I would be real cautious about putting flaps on the stick. Inadvertant
flap
>extension at VNE could be structurally disastrous. It is usual cockpit
>ergonomic to put flaps somewhere where it takes a positive effort to
deploy
>them.
Thanks for the good thought. I'll forget the flap control on the
stick. Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6-Electric flaps |
>Has anyone retrofitted electric flaps to their RV-6? I'm considering doing
>this conversion. I can't seem to keep my buckles from finding the painted
>flap handle and chipping it. I've touched-up the paint chips three times.
>Also, on occasion, my right shoulder doesn't work as well as it used to and
>I have trouble pulling on the last notch of flaps. Also, I could then plug
>the slots in the 605 bulkhead and keep a lot of cold air from entering the
>fuselage. What do you think of the idea of hooking up the flap switch to
>the MAC control stick grip? I saw this grip at S&F and liked it. Does
>anyone know if you can hook up a Navaid Device's trim mode to a switch on
>the MAC grip?
>Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
Bob:
I'm thinking about doing the same thing. Flap handle is too hard to pull
and is always in the way for the passenger. I'm thinking about putting the
rocker switch on the power quadrant post and a second switch on the control
stick. I'l purchase the new weldment as I don't reaaly want to modify the old
one. Dito on plugging the air leaks. Need to construct and implement a boot
on the aileron push tubes also...... Let me know how you make out....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6-Electric flaps |
>>Has anyone retrofitted electric flaps to their RV-6? I'm considering doing
>>this conversion. I can't seem to keep my buckles from finding the painted
>Bob, did you copy my message regarding my retrofit of elec. flaps on my -6.
>If not, and want my life story of the trials and tribulations of
>retrofitting Elec. Flaps To RV6s, (damm easy), let me know.
>John D
>John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
>johnd@our-town.com
>
>
>
>
Send it again!......I'm thinking about doing it also...
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV 685Hrs TT
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Question on wing aileron and flap alignment. |
> ***** SNIP *******
>1.) Align the tooling holes inboard and outboard and not worry that the flap
>is 1/4 inch higher than the aileron 9.5 inches up from their trailing edges
>(which are in perfect alignment).
>
>or
>
>2.) Ignore the tooling holes on the flap side, use the aileron and outboard
>wing rib tooling holes as gospel. Align the aileron so that it is flush with
>the flap (this works, but then the tooling holes don't line up at the
>inboard side.)
>
>note: The wing has been checked with lines for straightness and came out
>very well.
>
>Thanks in advance for all who respond, I am looking forward to finishing the
>wings and starting the fuselage.
>
> Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
>
>
Scott:
I would use the airfoil pattern laid over the the wing and aileron/flaps
to determin the proper aileron hinge location. The ultimate goal is to have a
control surface that, when level, is part of the airfoil. If the wing is true
as you say, all alignments should be made with respect to the airfoil,
including the wingtip........
Fred Stucklen RV6A N925RV 685 Hrs TT
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: left throttle, right seat? |
I guess it's just personal preference. I learned to fly in side-by-
side jets, with right-hand-stick and left-hand-throttle in both seats.
Then I was a QFI on the same jets (Tutors) and did most of my flying
in the right seat. That felt fine, too.
When I first switched to yoke airplanes I flew much better from the
right seat than I did from the left, because I could use right-yoke
and left-throttle. Eventually, I got so left-yoke-right-throttle
felt fine. It's just what you're used to.
However, my RV will have a left-hand throttle (and a center throttle
so I can fly it from the right seat if I want). I haven't decided
what to do with prop and mixture yet (might pass on the prop control--
not an invitation to start a discussion).
Tedd McHenry
Edmonton, Canada
[RV-6 plans, making progress on workshop]
>
> I am curious as to why we would want left throttle and right hand
> to fly. I drive with the left hand and shift with the right. I have
> discovered on long driving trips that my left hand is more precise and
> skilled than the right hand and I am right handed. Many two seat
> mutliengine A/C have the throttle in the center, A-26, B-25, etc. All of
> my flying so far has been with throttle right hand and left hand to fly.
> I've never experienced the other way and wonder what advantages may be.
>
> Some people have suggested that we should just fly from the right
> seat and we will have throttle left hand and fly right hand. Next
> question, why do we fly from the left seat? Some pilots I know have told
> me that there is no they could be flight instructors because they could
> not fly an airplane from the right seat!
>
> Bob Busick
> RV-6
> rbusick(at)nmsu.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6-Electric flaps |
What is the cost of the electric flap option these days (flap motor and
hardware only, not the welded thing)?? I got mine quite a while ago and
I'm sure it has gone up.
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Drill/Squeezers |
>1. I realize the ideal is to have a hand squeezer and a pneumatic. If
>I just buy a 3" pneumatic, can I get by without the hand squeezer?
>
>2. My sister's husband is an auto painter. He says I won't like
>working with an air drill because they use too much CFM from the air
>compresser. He says I should just use my cordless Makita drill. I
>checked this morning and my Makita only goes to 600 rpm. Most air
>drills go to at least 2000 rpm. Is this why I need an air drill.... or
>do I really need an air drill at all?
>
>3. Without hurting anyone's pride or taking anything away from Avery's
>fine reputation, it seems that many people recommend buying dimple dies
>and rivet sets from Cleaveland rather than from Avery. Any thoughts on
>this?
>Rod Woodard
Rod, I'd go with the pneumatic squeezer. I've used both and own the
pneumatic with a 4" yoke (heavy). I also have a smaller throat yoke with a
narrow, thin head for getting into trailing edges of elevators, ailerons,
etc. The pneumatic is much faster to use.
I feel that a small, light air drill is easier to control than the Makita
and faster. When machine countersinking, I feel that faster is better (even
though I try to keep my machine countersinking to a minimum.) Both drills
have their place. I've been using a 2 hp Sears compressor with a 12 gallon
tank. Running an air drill is not a problem. When running a die grinder,
you sometimes have to wait for the compressor to catch up.
Both Avery and Cleaveland make good dies although Cleaveland dies are a
little pricey. I think all of the "listers" would agree: Don't buy dimple
dies from ATS.
Bob Skinner RV-6 flying, RV-6A in the oven BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Hartmann <hartmann(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: left throttle, right seat? |
>
> I am curious as to why we would want left throttle and right hand
>to fly. I drive with the left hand and shift with the right. I have
>discovered on long driving trips that my left hand is more precise and
>skilled than the right hand and I am right handed. Many two seat
I'm also right-handed, and I agree that my left hand seems to know more
about driving a car than my right. I also have found that my left hand does
a better job of handling the control yoke in a traditional spam-can. For
some reason I don't understand, when I finally got a chance to fly with a
stick, it was the most natural thing in the world to fly with stick in right
hand and throttle in left. It felt so natural in fact, that it spoiled
control yokes for me forever. I intended to install the left side throttle
in my -6A from the very biginning.
> Some people have suggested that we should just fly from the right
>seat and we will have throttle left hand and fly right hand. Next
>question, why do we fly from the left seat? Some pilots I know have told
>me that there is no they could be flight instructors because they could
>not fly an airplane from the right seat!
I have no idea why we fly from the left and drive boats from the right since
aviation and things nautical are so historically interrelated. I also
wondered what it would be like to fly from the wrong seat, so last year when
I went up with an instructor to do my annual Wings thing (FAA Pilot
Proficiency Program - counts as BFR), I flew from the right seat with the
instructor in the left. It didn't seem to make a lot of difference except
close to the ground. The view at touchdown is different enough to make me
feel like I was crabbing, even though we were headed right down the
centerline of the runway. He didn't need to rescue me though, so I guess it
must not be as bad as it looks. Parallax when doing the instrument work
convinced me that right-side instruments would be a good thing if you
intended to set up the plane to fly primarily from the right seat.
The obvious solution is to do what I SHOULD have done. Build the -4 instead.
See you
- Mike
hartman(at)sound.net
RV-6A in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air Drill/Squeezers |
> 2. My sister's husband is an auto painter. He says I won't like
> working with an air drill because they use too much CFM from the air
> compresser. He says I should just use my cordless Makita drill. I
> checked this morning and my Makita only goes to 600 rpm. Most air
> drills go to at least 2000 rpm. Is this why I need an air drill.... or
> do I really need an air drill at all?
Just for my $.02, I didn't use an air drill at all - used two Sears craftsman
variable speed electric drills - both for only $29.00. (I wore out the first while
it
was still under warranty - serves 'em right for selling to RV builders!) - also
I used
a ryobi cordless drill/driver for a bunch of small stuff and for deburring duties.
Using my air drill was just too much hassle - compressor going and dragging the
hose
around was a pain in the posterior. I think that the "traditional" link between
air
drills and airplanes is for the reason of flammables in hangars - not wanting those
electrical sparking commutators!!
hope this helps !!
Regards Rob Lee - RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
| Subject: | left throttle, right seat? |
Hi Bob,
I guess my reason to mount my throttle on the left is simply because that is
how all of the planes I truly enjoy flying are configured. For the last few
years most of my time has been in the aero clubs T-34's or in Decathalons.
It just feels natural for me to have the stick in the right hand. Of course
the argument could be made that I also felt pretty natural in Cessena's and
Pipers, I just have not flown anything with the classic RV-6 setup.
Admittedly, I'm probably being silly about the whole deal, but since my wife
might only be able to withstand the construction of one airplane I'd better
make it JUST the way I want it.
I'm planning my pannel so that I will have a complete H.O.T.A.S setup, with
the exception of the flap switch which will also be L. hand operated. Man,
just the thought of it makes me go VRRRROOOOMMMM, RAT TAT TAT TAT TAT. Those
pretend MIGs that live in my garage should'nt mess with RV's.
Eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reply Separator <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>> I am curious as to why we would want left throttle and right hand
to fly. I drive with the left hand and shift with the right. I have
discovered on long driving trips that my left hand is more precise and
skilled than the right hand and I am right handed. Many two seat
mutliengine A/C have the throttle in the center, A-26, B-25, etc. All of
my flying so far has been with throttle right hand and left hand to fly.
I've never experienced the other way and wonder what advantages may be.
Some people have suggested that we should just fly from the right
seat and we will have throttle left hand and fly right hand. Next
question, why do we fly from the left seat? Some pilots I know have told
me that there is no they could be flight instructors because they could
not fly an airplane from the right seat!<<<<<<<
Bob Busick
RV-6
rbusick(at)nmsu.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Air Drill/Squeezers |
>I'm in the process of making a list of tools to order from Avery and
>Cleaveland. I've compared my list against several that I obtained from
>rv-listers and think I've come up with an OK list to get me started on
>the empennage of an -8 to be shipped within the next couple of weeks,
>I'm told. A few questions:
>
>1. I realize the ideal is to have a hand squeezer and a pneumatic. If
>I just buy a 3" pneumatic, can I get by without the hand squeezer?
>
All I had when I built my RV was a hand squeezer.
>2. My sister's husband is an auto painter. He says I won't like
>working with an air drill because they use too much CFM from the air
>compresser. He says I should just use my cordless Makita drill. I
>checked this morning and my Makita only goes to 600 rpm. Most air
>drills go to at least 2000 rpm. Is this why I need an air drill.... or
>do I really need an air drill at all?
I built my RV using two small Makita battery drills and two larger Makita
battery drills. I didn't want to use the air drill since it would have the
same problem a cord type electric drill would; the damn cord would always be
catching on things and they're always too short.
>
>3. Without hurting anyone's pride or taking anything away from Avery's
>fine reputation, it seems that many people recommend buying dimple dies
>and rivet sets from Cleaveland rather than from Avery. Any thoughts on
>this?
>
I've seen neither but both suppliers are top notch. You can't go wrong with
either of them. Good luck and happy building.
>Thanks in advance!
>
>Rod Woodard
>RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
>RV-8 empennage ordered 4/9/96
>
>
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | galexander(at)CCGATE.HAC.COM |
Listers:
>
>At sun'n'fun, I noticed several RV-6's that did not have the battery box in the
>cockpit. This appeals to me for safety reasons (cite last year's accident of
a
>battery exploding in an RV-4, resulting in a fatality), and it makes for that
>much more room in the cockpit (with my size 13's every bit helps).
Guys ... a serious note caution here.
On two of the RV's I've inspected (as EAA Technical Counselor), I've
recommended changes in this area. The main battery positive lead is a potential
source of danger in the RV design. The lead passes directly through the
firewall with no safety devices, the lead is very stiff, and there exists a
posibility of this lead chafing through a poorly sized rubber grommet and
directly shorting to ground. Sharp edges on the firewall stainless steel
material don't help this situation (how many cuts do you have from the firewall
edges? ...:^). Choosing a rubber grommet with a small difference between the
inner hole and mounting hole dimensions (possibly to fit behind too small a
firewall shield) can also make things worse. In some cases, the battery lead
passes through the firewall at an angle, also making things worse.
A direct short across the battery (no fuses or contact breakers would
help in the above firewall chafe scenario) seems to me to be a possible reason
for the battery explosion mentioned above.
I would strongly suggest that you look carefully at this particular
firewall penetration, and change it if any chance of shorting could be created.
In one case I saw, even the inner hole of the firewall shield could have cased
a
problem.
Some thing you can do:
1. Wrap the battery lead with a short length of thick rubber hose where it
poasses through the firewall to provide extra insulation between the wire and
the firewall edges.
2. Cut the firewall penetration hole oversize, and rivet on a thicker (say
0.063) piece of aluminum with the correct size hole for the rubber grommet.
Smooth the hole edges on this aluminum piece. This should reduce chafing of the
rubber grommet.
3. Make sure that the hole in the firewall shield is large enough so it cannot
cause a hazard.
4. Specifically add this check to your FAA required conditional inspection
checklist.
5. If possible, use a more flexible cable (welders cable?) to reduce standing
stresses on the grommet.
This is one of the few areas in the electrical system were there are no
fuses or breakers to protect things, so please apply extra caution here.
... build and fly safely ... Gil Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com ... several cuts already from the firewall ... :^)
RV6A, #20701
>
*** snip ***
>
>Regards,
>
>Rob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Acker <75104.3077(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: left throttle, right seat? |
>> I also have found that my left hand does a better job of handling the control
yoke in a traditional spam-can...it was the most natural thing in the world to
fly with stick in right hand and throttle in left. It felt so natural in fact,
that it spoiled control yokes for me forever. <<
This is my experience as well, and why mine will have dual throttles!
Rob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Morristec(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: left throttle, right seat? |
I have been a tendem seat pilot for years and the thought of a stick in the
left hand and throttle in the right just doesn't seem right. Consequently I
have given considerable thought to a left throttle. Please consider the
following human factors problems. I'd be glad to hear your comments.
1. With the right hand on the stick (left seat) you will have to release the
stick or at least change hands to adjust the flaps. All this stick goggling
comes at the most critical part of the flight- final approach, and or
go-around. This seems unsafe to me. Such a condition certainly wouldn't be
certifiable under either the CAR's or FAR Part 23 due to the safety aspects.
2. Likewise reaching the radios, or any other switches/controls in the
instrument panel would probably want to be done with the right hand. Same
problem again.
3. If you must have a left throttle and right hand on stick why not set-up
the airplane for the pilot to be on the R/H side? Helicopter pilots and
flight instructors fly from the right and it is OK (but then we are half
crazy anyhow).
Dan Morris
Morristec(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
| Subject: | Summary Air Drill/Squeezers |
Hello all!
First, let me say "THANKS!" to all those who responded to my post
earlier today. A grand total of 15 responses (private & public) in a
little less than 12 hours! Pretty impressive.
Following is a summary of what I've decided based on the answers I
Air Drill vs. Makita
I decided my brother-in-law hasn't drilled 13,000 holes in Alclad so
he's probably not the best person to listen to WRT selection of
drills... besides, he married my sister. What does that say for his
intelligence... just kidding.
I'll be looking for a good, lightweight, feathering trigger air drill.
As Scott (N506RV) said, "they make a really neat noise when drilling."
What more could I ask for? Hand me an air drill.
Squeezers
This was a tough one. Some very respectible people suggested that I
_definitely_ get a pneumatic. Another person said he talked to someone
at Avery's who said if you have to choose, pick the hand squeezer.
My decision: Buy the Avery's pneumatic with a 2-1/2" yoke. I've got a
friend who just finished a Tailwind and he says I can use his hand
squeezer as long as I need it so long as I promise to give him a ride
in my -8. If I end up using his hand squeezer a bunch, I'll just buy my
own. Neither a borrower nor a lender be....
Dimple Dies
Sounds like Cleaveland or Avery would work just fine. I did have a few
people say that Cleaveland is slightly better so I'll probably go with
them. Someone mentioned that their backriveting set from Cleaveland was
more apt to mar the skin than the Avery version so I think I'll go with
the Avery for this.
Thanks again to all who responded. Sorry I didn't respond to each of
you individually. I would have been here all night!
Rod Woodard
Loveland, Colorado
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
RV-8 Empennage ordered 4-9-96
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Morristec(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Silicon sealants |
One of Dow Cornings products for electrical connection protection is DC-4
compound. It is a Silicone "grease".
Dan
Morristec(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: left throttle, right seat? |
> >> I also have found that my left hand does a better job of handling
> >> the control
> yoke in a traditional spam-can...it was the most natural thing in
> the world to fly with stick in right hand and throttle in left. It
> felt so natural in fact, that it spoiled control yokes for me
> forever. <<
>
> This is my experience as well, and why mine will have dual throttles!
>
Does anybody have trouble when it comes to envisioning swapping hands at
critical times? Yeah, I flew yoke in the left hand in a spam can, and stick-
right/throttle-left in the Aeronca. But there are no radios, flight
computers, GPS's or flap levers in a Champ. There are enough auxiliary
controls that you're going to have to use your right hand to operate that you
may as well fly left handed.
Just thought of some more.... Writing down clearances. Pushing the reset
button on the G-meter. :-)
(Hmmm, the right hand might come in handy if you're getting a little frisky at
altitude.... :-) ahem!
Actually, while I'm a LONG way off from such considerations, maybe I'll find
some way to make the controls ambidextrous, just so I can switch easily as the
mission and comfort demand..
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: left throttle, right seat? |
> I am curious as to why we would want left throttle and right hand
>to fly. I drive with the left hand and shift with the right. I have
>discovered on long driving trips that my left hand is more precise and
>skilled than the right hand and I am right handed. Many two seat
>mutliengine A/C have the throttle in the center, A-26, B-25, etc. All of
>my flying so far has been with throttle right hand and left hand to fly.
>I've never experienced the other way and wonder what advantages may be.
Bob;
I'm not pushing left throttle, rt stick flying. It's what floats your boat.
Me, my entire flying career has been left throt/rt stick. Even the
interceptors had the joy stick on the left console, I guess so that the rt
hand could stay on the stick. My brain and body is in tune with that. For
instance, an emer go around or so, my sytem automatically goes left hand
forward for go power and rt hand back pressure for clearance. It's as if I'm
programmed that way. With this conditioning, can you see what it would do to
me if I had the stick in my left hand and my throttle in the right?
You have to experience it. In England one dark and stormy night (,no, this
isn't a Snoopy novel) we had an alert recall, I came around a bend, ran up
on a tree across the road, got stopped and immediately turned around to
alert any one coming fast behind me. With out thinking, it dawned on me
that I had reverted to the American side of the road rather than the English
side. Made me feel dumb, but it's that kind of conditioning I have.
Guess if I had learned to fly in civilian a/c with a wheel and throt in the
middle, I wouldn't have wanted to change my RV around.
My last tour was in T-37s with some students, I was able to fly from the rt
seat, no sweat, but even that had a -----you guessed it, left throtle/right
stick.
It's what old fighter pilots did for a living and at my age, sorry, I ain't
going to make that change just for a few years.
And pleasse, don't insult a fighter pilot by bringing up those many motored
B-25 and 26 etc. Next thing you may have us in those BUFFs.:-)
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HowardRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: left throttle, right seat? |
Well, It's time I put my two cents in since we seem to be spending lots of
time on this subject. I spent over 20 years flying fighters in the USAF,
then while at Headquarters Tactical Air Command, flew the T-39 (Sabre Liner).
The transition to wheel in left hand and throttles in right was not problem,
as in other civilian aircraft. There has been a lot written and I sure don't
remember much of it, that using the muscles in the arms with a wheel is much
eaiser than a stick. I flew a Citation from the right seat not long ago, and
that was no problem either. My only ride in a RV-6 was in the right seat and
the stick just felt natural. I flew in a friends T-18 from the left seat and
it was uncomfortable for me. Mark Fredrick told me it is my bird, do with it
what I like. Soooooo, left throttle I will have. I plan on putting the flap
switch on the left also and havn't decided on mixture control yet. Probably
in the center. Back to the workshop to shoot down Migs.
Howard Kidwell
howardrv(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Boris <smbr(at)inetw.net> |
| Subject: | Cleaner Question? |
>
>
>>What can I use to remove the tanish-yellowish auto fuel stains on my white
>>Imron paint? I use a combination of Fleetwash and Carbon-X aircraft cleaners
>>when washing the plane but these just don't remove the fuel stains.
>>Any Ideas?
>
>>Thanks - Greg Bordelon
>>greg(at)brokersys.com
>>Houston TX
>>final assembling Rob Lee's 6A
>
>Greg,
>
>Try Turtle Wax one step automotive paste wax. That worked on my Citabria.
>
>Steve Johnson
>spjohnson(at)mmm.com
>RV-8 Gonnabuild
>
>
Doesn't Turtle Wax contain Silicone? If it does it could mess things up in
the future. I've been useing Meguire's cleaner/wax on my glider. Factory
said it contains no silicone.
Boris
smbr(at)inetw.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Gottschalk <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Panel |
Chris,
I have digitized the RV6 panel, and have flight instruments, switches, a
King radio and transponder digitized and blocked so panel variations can be
checked out. Each piece is drawn on separate blocks for panel cutout,
mounting screw and face plate graphics, so once the final layout is set you
can turn on the cutout block to get a plot of the panel cutout. It's drawn
in AutoCAD r12. Radios and flight instruments may help and the panel layout
should be easy to modify to RV8 specs. I just used the dimensions right off
the plans. If you want a copy of the file let me know. I can also plot "D"
size paper.
-Gene Gottschalk, RV6a, Fuse going into jig
===================================
>Last week at Sun-n-Fun I found a computer product called Panel Planner
>which had the RV panel in it. It had instruments and radios which you
>could move around on your panel then print out on a plotter, which would
>provide a template to cut from. It also kept track of cost. Interactive
>Solutions 800-952-1250
>
>
>Chris Edwards
>cbe(at)synon.com
>Dallas, TX
>RV-8 coming soon
>
>
===================================================
Tvsymka Siberians Cyndi & Gene Gottschalk
geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov
Frederick, MD (301) 865-3432
===================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Acker <75104.3077(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: left throttle, right seat? |
>> There are enough auxiliary controls that you're going to have to use your
right hand to operate that you may as well fly left handed...Just thought of
some more.... Writing down clearances. Pushing the reset button on the
G-meter. :-) <<
Richard,
Good points. My right hand is much better at fiddling with knobs, flap levers,
and other important stuff...and writing left-handed? Forget it. That's what I
like about this list...all the stuff I don't think about, somebody else will
!
(Hmmm, the right hand might come in handy if you're getting a little frisky at
altitude.... :-) ahem!
That's where I am ambidextrous .
Rob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Panel |
On Fri, 26 Apr 1996, Chris Edwards wrote:
>
> Last week at Sun-n-Fun I found a computer product called Panel Planner
> which had the RV panel in it...
I've ordered a copy. I was going to wait until it actually arrived and I
used it before talking about it here. Supposedly, it can also drive an
HP plotter. SInce we have a big one at work, this product might actually
turn out to be a real tool.
More after it arrives and I've used it.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harry Paine <HPair(at)ix.netcom.com> |
I have a few good used 214 Air operated C squeezes for sale at $250.oo each
including the standard sets (no dimple dies). They come with a 90 day
warranty. Harry Paine email HPair(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cylinder - THANK YOU |
Greg;
I think I would have done the same as you did, if that makes you feel any
better.
You were quoted a much better price than I was, if we are talking the same
apples. For an 0-320, the cly. assembly kit (piston, rings, barrel with new
valves, springs etc.) was 1175.00 each. If yours was the same kit, do you
mind sharing with who you were doing business? (for my future reference with
fondest hopes of never having to use it)
John D
>The cylinder repair shop wanted $1650 to repair (actually swap) all four of
my cylinders. Superior Air Parts quoted me $2350 for four of their
Millennium Series cylinders. I choose to purchase the Millennium cylinders.
I just could bring myself to spend money on inferior cylinders.........with
a personality like this I guess thats why I'm building an RV. You know, more
value for the buck.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | RV-6 Electric Flap Diagram... |
Could someone FAX me a copy of the electric flap installation diagram for
the RV6?
510-606-6281 FAX
Thanks,
Matt Dralle
Matronics
510-606-1001 Voice
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cut down metal props |
Bob,
Yes, this was one of Bob Brashear's props, and no, it did not go through
vibration testing. The pilot shut the engine down a few seconds following
the prop failure. Damage to the airplane included: Destroyed engine mount
pads. A cracked main longeron approximately four inches aft of the firewall
on the left side. The crack ran through the horizontal leg of the longeron
through the aft most bolt which attaches the steel engine mount bracket.
Considerable damage to the cowl including the cooling air inlets and the
carberator air inlet. Damage to both elevators included numberous crack,
most along the training edge, and a severe bend in each elevator
approximately six inches inboard from the outboard tip. Damage to the
horizontal stab occurred from the elevator counter balance slamming against
the outboard edge of the stab.
Van provided a solution to fix the cracked longeron. Two new elevators were
built. Van also recommended installing additional elevator stiffners
diagonally between the outboard rib and the first stiffner.
Not having experienced this event first hand, it's hard to imagine what goes
through your mind. I do know that the pilot of this RV-4 will never chance
using a modified metal prop. I don't even think he would consider using one
that had been vibration tested. I'm no expert, but how can Sensenich go
through years of testing trying to get their current RV prop acceptable, and
yet we should trust a modified prop only after one basic vibration test? No
thanks, I'll stick to my Warnke prop, it has a great track record and
performs quite well.
Rick McBride
RV-6, N523JC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GMcdeeatp(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Boeing Surplus |
It has been a while since I have been to Boeing Surplus but I Iseem to recall
they are closed on Mondays to restock. If you get there on Tuesday morning
the selection is best. I don't recall their hours.
Gary McDaniel
GMcdeeatp.aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Boris <smbr(at)inetw.net> |
| Subject: | Left Throttle - Right Starter? |
Listers
All this talk of left seat/left throttle brought up a question on my future
4 I've had for a while.
I flew an RV-3 for a couple of times a year ago. As I see in most 4's and
3's the throttle is on the left (mine will be too) and the starter is on the
right. When I start the engine, being a tail-dragger pilot, I always hold
brakes (as all do) and a lot of up elevator to keep the tail on the ground,
should the RPM go high for any reason. It was the way I was taught. I was
always uncomfortable starting the RV-3, an unfamiliar engine, and would
immediately grab the stick and haul aft when the it popped to life.
The 150 hp Decathlon I sometimes get to fly has the starter on the left side
of the panel near the boost pump switch and the throttle. I hold back
elevator with the right hand and turn the key with the left.
I'd like to do the same with my RV-4 but all I remember seeing (experience
limited to 5 yrs Sun 'N Fun) is right hand key-starter locations . Is there
a reason?
Thanks for your comments.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Silicon sealants |
>One of Dow Cornings products for electrical connection protection is DC-4
>compound. It is a Silicone "grease".
>
>Dan
>
>Morristec(at)aol.com
And, DC-4 is great form lubrication of the rubber gasket on oil filters.
Much better to use DC-4 than engine oil as filter removal is much easier.
Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air Drill/Squeezers |
| From: | Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)indirect.com> |
>3. Without hurting anyone's pride or taking anything away from Avery's
>> fine reputation, it seems that many people recommend buying dimple dies
>> and rivet sets from Cleaveland rather than from Avery. Any thoughts on
>> this?
I've got both Avery and Cleaveland dimple dies. The Avery are very good
and yield excellent results. Without detracting from Avery' s fine
product, the Cleavland dimple dies are works of art and the best
available, IMO. Both suppliers offer tools of excellent to outstanding
quality.
Mike Kukulski (kukulski(at)indirect.com)
RV-4 N96MK (installing flap linkages)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cut down metal props |
| From: | haipilot(at)usa.pipeline.com (Hai Pilot) |
I read an article in Penthouse about the art of being a prostitute. It was
very enlightening, and presented almost a sexual social worker point of
view. I've wondered if I was a good looking woman, would I do that, (pre
aids days fantasy). I think it could be fun for a while, given the right
conditions.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Air Drill/Squeezers |
>compresser. He says I should just use my cordless Makita drill. I
>checked this morning and my Makita only goes to 600 rpm. Most air
>drills go to at least 2000 rpm. Is this why I need an air drill.... or
>do I really need an air drill at all?
I think an air drill is a necessity. I use a cordless for deburring and
light drilling, but there are SOOOO many holes in an RV that it would take a
long time using just a cordless. The air drill is much faster and (IMHO)
makes cleaner holes. I have a real small 3/8" air drill and also a 3/8 right
angle. I use them constantly. As far as the compressor, get a decent sized
one. I know some people that use small (10 gal?) tanks and the thing runs
constantly. I have a 30 gal Devilbiss (about $240 @ Home Depot) and it's
more than adequate, albeit LOUD.
>3. Without hurting anyone's pride or taking anything away from Avery's
>fine reputation, it seems that many people recommend buying dimple dies
>and rivet sets from Cleaveland rather than from Avery. Any thoughts on
>this?
I've never used the Cleveland dies, but I can't imagine they would be any
better than Avery's. They may be as good, but the ones from Avery are
beautiful.
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Left Throttle - Right Starter? |
Boris wrote:
>
> Listers
>
> All this talk of left seat/left throttle brought up a question on my future
> 4 I've had for a while.
>
> I flew an RV-3 for a couple of times a year ago. As I see in most 4's and
> 3's the throttle is on the left (mine will be too) and the starter is on the
> right. When I start the engine, being a tail-dragger pilot, I always hold
> brakes (as all do) and a lot of up elevator to keep the tail on the ground,
> should the RPM go high for any reason. It was the way I was taught. I was
> always uncomfortable starting the RV-3, an unfamiliar engine, and would
> immediately grab the stick and haul aft when the it popped to life.
>
> The 150 hp Decathlon I sometimes get to fly has the starter on the left side
> of the panel near the boost pump switch and the throttle. I hold back
> elevator with the right hand and turn the key with the left.
>
> I'd like to do the same with my RV-4 but all I remember seeing (experience
> limited to 5 yrs Sun 'N Fun) is right hand key-starter locations . Is there
> a reason?
>
> Thanks for your comments.
It's your airplane you can put the key-starter anywhere you want.
The RV-3 and RV-4 I can see a left hand throttle if that is what a person wants
because you can reach anywhere in the cockpit, I have found that in 700 hrs of
flying in
my RV-6 that it would be a pain to have the throttle on the left side if you are
flying
left seat there are to many things to fiddle with on the right side, radios, GPS,
wife ;-) etc.. I have been a instructor for 20 years and find that in just a short
time
you can get used to flying from either side. It is no different than flying your
spam
can from the left seat throttle in the center. I also want my passenger to be able
to
use the controls just incase it becomes neccessary.
Just my opinion
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First Flight July 14, 1989 :-)
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cut down metal props |
RV>I read an article in Penthouse about the art of being a prostitute. It was
RV>very enlightening, and presented almost a sexual social worker point of
RV>view. I've wondered if I was a good looking woman, would I do that, (pre
RV>aids days fantasy). I think it could be fun for a while, given the right
RV>conditions.
Was this _perhaps_ sent to the wrong list-serve?? It is thought
provoking, however....
Rod Woodard
P.S. I"m not sure what it has to do with cut down metal props either!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cut down metal props |
Hai Pilot wrote:
>
> I read an article in Penthouse about the art of being a prostitute. It was
> very enlightening, and presented almost a sexual social worker point of
> view. I've wondered if I was a good looking woman, would I do that, (pre
> aids days fantasy). I think it could be fun for a while, given the right
> conditions.
Whhhhaaaaat?
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First Flight July 14, 1989 :-)
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Received Copy Of RV-6 Electric Flap Installation... |
I received a FAX from Stan Blanton today of the RV-6 flap installation, so
no need to respond to my posting. Thanks to everyone that did respond! This
is a great resounce!
Matt Dralle
Matronics
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cut down metal props |
What does this have to do with RV building????Please!!!!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thomas N. Martin" <103212.65(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Gil
Your message was very good and I will check my RV-4 for a problem in this area.
It will be added to my list of things to check "under the hood". It was almost
impossible to get the edges smooth on the holes through the firewall.
The main positive cable is only "on" when the starter solinoid is activated.
This means that if you do have a short in the system it will at least happen
while you are still on the ground. Mounting the battery forward of the firewall
would get rid of this problem. However would the increased risk of vibration and
heat on the battery be worth the move?
Tom Martin
RV-4 the RaVen
114hrs and climbing 11months since first flight.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bennett" <bennett(at)healey.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Cut down metal props |
> RV>I read an article in Penthouse about the art of being a prostitute. It was
> RV>very enlightening, and presented almost a sexual social worker point of
> RV>view. I've wondered if I was a good looking woman, would I do that, (pre
> RV>aids days fantasy). I think it could be fun for a while, given the right
> RV>conditions.
>
> Was this _perhaps_ sent to the wrong list-serve?? It is thought
> provoking, however....
>
> Rod Woodard
>
> P.S. I"m not sure what it has to do with cut down metal props either!
>
>
Perhaps it's a continuation of the discussion earlier this year on
Hooker harnesses?
Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | 37xjglj(at)cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Paul & Janet Lein) |
Hello All,
I'm surprised there hasn't been more comment on the RV3 wing mods, only
briefly mentioned a week or two ago. Since I am keeping an eye out for a
nice RV3 as I build my 6, I would like to know more about the changes Van
has indicated are necessary. How many RV3 pilots want to fly their
airplane in situations that require higher G loadings? Is the modification
a difficult one that will require pulling wings? Any information available
yet?
BTW if there are any RV owners who would like to be able to fly with the
wind in their hair this summer, I still have a nice Bakeng Duce to trade
:-) ...
Paul Lein
RV6A - hoping to start skinning the fuselage soon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen ) |
| Subject: | Re: RV3 wing mods |
I understand that you have to open up the bottom skin on the wing,
inorder to drill holes and bolt reinforcement angle or bar to the spar.
If you're registered with Van as having built an RV3, you should be
getting the mods in the mail (someone mentioned they're also sending
you the materials for the mods?)
Finn
You wrote:
>
>Hello All,
>
>I'm surprised there hasn't been more comment on the RV3 wing mods,
only
>briefly mentioned a week or two ago. Since I am keeping an eye out
for a
>nice RV3 as I build my 6, I would like to know more about the changes
Van
>has indicated are necessary. How many RV3 pilots want to fly their
>airplane in situations that require higher G loadings? Is the
modification
>a difficult one that will require pulling wings? Any information
available
>yet?
>
>BTW if there are any RV owners who would like to be able to fly with
the
>wind in their hair this summer, I still have a nice Bakeng Duce to
trade
>:-) ...
>
>Paul Lein
>RV6A - hoping to start skinning the fuselage soon
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com (Michael McGee) |
| Subject: | Re: Boeing Surplus |
>It has been a while since I have been to Boeing Surplus but I Iseem to recall
>they are closed on Mondays to restock. If you get there on Tuesday morning
>the selection is best. I don't recall their hours.
>Gary McDaniel
>GMcdeeatp.aol.com
>
>
I made it to Boeing Surplus on wed apr 24. It was my first time there. Wow!
The hours are different than what was on the list of tool suppliers I got
from the RV-list ( or was it from John Hovan's home page) and now I have
some directions from the south so I'll submit the new info here shortly.
The hours are : tues-fri 10 to 5
sat 9 to 4
I was wondering about their restocking schedule when I saw that a large
proportion of what was there at 10:30 when we got there was gone at 5:00
when they kicked us out. So much that there wouldn't be much left by the
time saturday rolled around. So I asked and they restock EVERY DAY.
The two of us that went came home with about an estimated $1000 worth of
stuff for about $400. I dug through the bins of 3X guns and air drills
testing each one until I found one of each that I wanted. They had an air
hose there so you could test all of the air tools. Most of what they had to
pick from looked like stuff out of Star Wars but I still tried out a dozen
3X rivit guns before getting a Chicago Pneumatic for $60. The air drill was
$40 and the 200 or so feet of 1/2" very flexible air hose (8 separate
pieces) with high flow quick connectors was 50 cents / pound!!! Got an
assortment of rivit sets for $1 each , water trap and oiler for the air
lines $15.
Then there was the of drill bits and rotary cutting tools that
I don't have time to start writing about.
It was worth the gas and time off work :) to drive there from Portland easy.
I'll be back..
Mike McGee
sn23596
Vancouver, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
Preparations to begin my RV8 kit continue. I've now converted my
entire bedroom and garage into sheet metal shops. I've ordered every
conceivable tool and I've even told several women to never expect my
calls again. Now I have the time and space to focus on what's really
important.
The only next step I can think of is to start building my tail jig.
I've seen in print that the tail jig is really just a very plumb beam
at waist level with uprights at each side. I'm planning on anchoring
one end right to my wall and having the other end supported by an
upright beam attached to a cement pier on the floor and to the roof at
the top. My questions are: what should the dimensions of the main
beam be (cross area and length). Also am I missing anything or can I
just try to fashion a very secure and plumb mounting scheme for the
horizontal piece? Do most people make oversized tail jigs which then
work for the wings later?
Thanks,
-Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ayers <102337.2252(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Cut down metal props |
I'll second the Warnke prop nomination. I'm using a Warnke 68x68 left handed
prop (pusher) for my LOM M332A powered RV-3. Of five wood props (two Great
American, Pacesetter 200, Sensenich, and Warnke) I tried on the Lyc., the Warnke
prop performed best overall.
BTW, Ivo has accused me of using the best performing prop available (Warnke) as
a reference for the performance numbers I am obtaining for his "Magnum" prop.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder (two engines in one; 140 hp for take-off &
climb, 115 hp for cruise economy)
102337.2252(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ayers <102337.2252(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: RV3 wing mods |
The letter I received from Van's on the RV-3 wing mod indicated that the bottom
skin would need to be at least partially removed to install the proposed angle
to the upper spar section. I would guess with just this much information, that
having the wings removed would be the easiest way to work on this mod.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
102337.2252(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ayers <102337.2252(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Left Throttle - Right Starter? |
On my RV-3, I reach across with my right hand to operate a "hidden" (until now)
starter switch on the left forward side of the main spar fuselage bulkhead.
This allows me to have my left hand on the throttle, the stick is held back with
my right forearm as I operate the starter switch with my right hand.
I'm not sure the main spar bulkhead on the RV-4, or RV-6, will allow this same
positioning of a starter switch. But perhaps a starter switch in the left side
panel would work the same. Anyone far enough along with their fuselage to sit
in them to check the ergonomics, could make better reccommendations than I can
on this concept.
BTW, I "sweep" (hand-eye, not broom) the cockpit, left to right, before I can
get to the point of starting the engine. Just as I do a final "sweep" of the
cockpit, right to left, just prior to taxiing out for take-off.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
102337.2252(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air Drill/Squeezers (reply) |
>2. My sister's husband is an auto painter. He says I won't like
>working with an air drill because they use too much CFM from the air
>compresser. He says I should just use my cordless Makita drill. I
>checked this morning and my Makita only goes to 600 rpm. Most air
>drills go to at least 2000 rpm. Is this why I need an air drill.... or
>do I really need an air drill at all?
No, you do not need the 2k rpm of the air drill. In fact you will neen to
buy an air regulator so you can limit drill speed without limiting presure.
The Makita works great, but gets a little heavy after a good bought of
drilling. This is were the air drill really comes in handy. (light weight)
The Makita is cheaper to run. Charging its batteries is much cheaper than
running the compressor.
The air drill is much smaller and will fit places that your cordless can only
wish to get into.
Gary Zilik
RV-6A s/n 22993
Building a bigger shop (foundation finished pouring today....)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
Mike:
I talked to Van's about this last week. The word is that the jig for the
-6 will work for the empennage/wings of an -8. I borrowed a friend's -6
construction manual and plan to build my jig from it. The manual calls
for an "H" shapped jig with 105-109" between the uprights.
After checking out the local supply of 4x4 lumber, I have decided to
build mine out of plywood--sort of a box. I've talked to another builder
who used this setup and he said it works fine. I'm sure you've noticed
that in the Orndorff tapes it looks like they're using 2x4's.
RE: mounting one end close to the wall. I haven't noticed anything in
the Orndorff tapes to suggest that this would interfere with anything,
but I bet you'd put an extra couple of miles on your Reeboks going from
one side of the jig to the other--the long way around!
Good luck... and hopefully both of us will be building soon!
Rod Woodard
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
RV8 Empennage on Order
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stuart Fraley <swfraley(at)alpha.comsource.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail Jig Specs |
Mike,
I wouldn't put one end against the wall. You'll want to be able to reach
around it.
Stuart Fraley
RV-6 Tail
swfraley(at)comsource.net
>Preparations to begin my RV8 kit continue. I've now converted my
>entire bedroom and garage into sheet metal shops. I've ordered every
>conceivable tool and I've even told several women to never expect my
>calls again. Now I have the time and space to focus on what's really
>important.
>
>The only next step I can think of is to start building my tail jig.
> I've seen in print that the tail jig is really just a very plumb beam
>at waist level with uprights at each side. I'm planning on anchoring
>one end right to my wall and having the other end supported by an
>upright beam attached to a cement pier on the floor and to the roof at
>the top. My questions are: what should the dimensions of the main
>beam be (cross area and length). Also am I missing anything or can I
>just try to fashion a very secure and plumb mounting scheme for the
>horizontal piece? Do most people make oversized tail jigs which then
>work for the wings later?
>
>Thanks,
>-Mike
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cut down metal props |
>Not having experienced this event first hand, it's hard to imagine what goes
>through your mind. I do know that the pilot of this RV-4 will never chance
>using a modified metal prop. I don't even think he would consider using one
>that had been vibration tested. I'm no expert, but how can Sensenich go
>through years of testing trying to get their current RV prop acceptable, and
>yet we should trust a modified prop only after one basic vibration test? No
>thanks, I'll stick to my Warnke prop, it has a great track record and
>performs quite well.
>
>Rick McBride
>RV-6, N523JC
Rick, Thanks for the details. I think this is valuable information for
those people trying to decide on props for their RV's. Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dcahoon(at)intellinet.com (David Cahoon) |
| Subject: | Re: Cylinder - THANK YOU |
Are you sure of this price $2350 for four Millennium cylinders? I called and
they wanted 1200 a piece! This includes pistons, valves, etc.
dcahoon(at)intellinet.com engine in shop for overhaul
>Greg;
>I think I would have done the same as you did, if that makes you feel any
>better.
>You were quoted a much better price than I was, if we are talking the same
>apples. For an 0-320, the cly. assembly kit (piston, rings, barrel with new
>valves, springs etc.) was 1175.00 each. If yours was the same kit, do you
>mind sharing with who you were doing business? (for my future reference with
>fondest hopes of never having to use it)
>John D
>
>>The cylinder repair shop wanted $1650 to repair (actually swap) all four of
>my cylinders. Superior Air Parts quoted me $2350 for four of their
>Millennium Series cylinders. I choose to purchase the Millennium cylinders.
>I just could bring myself to spend money on inferior cylinders.........with
>a personality like this I guess thats why I'm building an RV. You know, more
>value for the buck.
>John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
>johnd@our-town.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cut down metal props |
>I'll second the Warnke prop nomination. I'm using a Warnke 68x68 left handed
>prop (pusher) for my LOM M332A powered RV-3. Of five wood props (two Great
>American, Pacesetter 200, Sensenich, and Warnke) I tried on the Lyc., the
Warnke
>prop performed best overall.
Warnke makes a beautiful prop. However, in my limited experience, getting
a wood prop that performs as wanted on the first try is a matter of luck.
We have a 6A here that had an unfortunate uh-ho and he shortened his Warnke
prop to about 18" long. He ordered another Warnke, and after a long wait (I
know, when you want to fly your pride & joy, 2 days could be a long wait,
but this wait was a few months) he received another Warnke. Cruise on this
RV-6A with a 180 hp engine was down 20 mph. I believe they sent it back and
it came back with no change. I think then that they received a different
prop. This prop was better than the second but not nearly as good as the
first prop.
This is not an indictment of Warnke props (although the long wait for
service has been mentioned by several RVer's that I've spoken with). Ive'
talked with a couple of prop manufactures and they agreed that they could
make three identical props from three identical prop blanks and end up with
three props with different performance abilities. I would attribute this to
the "hand made" aspect of wood props. I have found, after shipping my Props
Inc. back three times for "re-pitching" and still not getting the
performance that I'm after, that wood prop manufacture is way more art than
science. Of course, "re-pitching" is more re-carving and changing the
airfoil shape of the prop blades.
I'm hoping that there is more "repeatability" or consistency in
Sensenich's metal prop as I'm about to put mine on and test it out.
(Hopefully, by next weekend) I'm thinking that, if the pitch needs some
adjustment on the Sensenich, it will be much more exact to fly the prop to a
repair station and have them re-pitch the prop according to the data sheet
that Sensenich provides than it is to re-shape a wood prop. Gee, after all
of this prop hassle, I sure hope the Sensinich perfoms well right out of the
box.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com (Doug Weiler) |
| Subject: | Twin Cities Forum |
Fellow Listers:
Just thought I'd relate to you all the results of our 2nd Twin Cities RV
Forum. We were blessed with just perfect weather (at least for Minnesota).
Clear skies, very little wind, and temps in the low 50s. We had about 175
people in attendance with 14 RVs on display, 7 of which were inside. We
were a little overwhelmed with about 60 walk-ins and had to make an
emergency run to Burger King for 20 Whoppers when we ran out of sandwiches!
Five speakers presented various RV topics of interest. Our resident
Technical Counselor Tom Berge headed up a marathon workshop to build a RV-6
vertical stab in one day. Not a problem with the predrilled kit!! We gave
it away as our grand prize and it was won by a gentlemen who was about to
order a tail kit anyway!
Minnesota Public Radio even did a special interest story on us which aired
the day before. It was nicely done.
Bill Benedict was there with the RV-8. (I managed to twist his arm and I
got a ride in it. It screams, 100 mph climbout gave 2500 fpm. Flies just
like all the RVs but with a little more elbow room in back. Without the
V-shaped rollbar as in the RV-4, the rear pax didn't feel quite so cramped.
The footwells for the rear seat passenger are a must. RV-4 builders should
consider this a manditory feature). Bill even sold one RV-8 tail kit that day.
Our product support from various RV vendors was great. We gave away over 40
door prizes donated by RV vendors ranging from rivet guides from Avery up to
a beautiful set of super duper RV stick grips with all the little doo-dad
buttons from MAC.
The evening banquet was attended by around 60 people and we just had a great
time.
It's a lot of work, but we'll do it again next year. Thanks to those on the
List who attended and supported us.
Doug
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
= Doug Weiler, pres. MN Wing, Van's AirForce, RV-4 in progress, N722DW
= 347 Krattley Lane
= Hudson, WI 54016
= 715-386-1239
= email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
>It was almost
>impossible to get the edges smooth on the holes through the firewall.
>The main positive cable is only "on" when the starter solinoid is activated.
>This means that if you do have a short in the system it will at least happen
>while you are still on the ground.
RV'ers and all others. . . . wiring should be brought through a firewall
using rubber grommets to keep the wire centered in and protected from
hole edges. The grommet is then protected by a grommet shield which is
a two piece set metal covers with depressions molded in to clear the grommet
and overlap each other to act as a fire-shield on the otherwise flamable
grommet. Tony B. did an article in the past two years in Sport Aviation
on how to make your own grommet shields. There are a number of sources
for ready-to-install grommet shields . . . I don't have access to them
right now but if anyone is interested, drop me an e-mail . . .I'll dig
out the info.
This technique applies to ALL penetrations of the firewall by instrument
tubes, wires, controls, etc. . . . VERY IMPORTANT
>Mounting the battery forward of the firewall would get rid of this problem.
>However would the increased risk of vibration and heat on the battery be
>worth the move?
It would take care of only ONE problem . . . the same problem still exists
for all the other penetrations. Battery degredation is accelerated by
temperature excursions and amount of time battery spends at elevated
temperatures. They DO provide a useful service life on the firewall
(See lotsa Cessnas and Bonanzas . . .) but keeping the battery out of
the engine compartment is a GOOD idea.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Dimpling technique |
Hi Folks,
I just learned a technique from the list recently that I used regarding
dimpling and back riveting that I think worked to perfection (smoother
than a babys butt), so I thought I would pass it along with the
highest of re
commendations. This was on the left elevator of my RV-6.
First, the tools:
Cleaveland dimple dies
Cleaveland large C rivet tool with the rug-covered table that
they send the plans for with their C tool
Tatco hand squeezer (used on stiffeners)
Avery back-rivet tool
Avery back-riveting flat steel plate
Chicago 3X rivet gun with Sears compressor (25 gal) set at 30
pounds
8 oz ball-pien hammer from Ace garbage table for $1.50
(The most important tool here?)
The key thing I learned was to use the small ball pien hammer when
dimpling the skin. I tapped the rod holding the dimple die in the C
tool about nine times each dimple (per the suggestion on the list).
The first six taps had one sound (as the dimple was forming?) and the
last three had a more solid higher pitched sound. I forget who put
this technique on the list a short while back, but thank you, thank
you. The results look fantastic.
I was wishing someone had told me about this before I did any of the
skins on the tail, so I thought gee I have to tell all those getting
ready to start on their planes. I STRONGLY recommend that you give
this method a try.
Best regards,
Bill Costello
--
___ _____________________________
\ \ _ _ / /
\ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello Chicago \
X-*#####*******......./ N97WC (reserved) /
o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on left elev. \
\__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com /
\____________________________\
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | gear drilling (chatter) |
Sorry to clutter the list, but.....
I fitted the wings to my 6A fuselage on the weekend to drill the gear leg
mounts. Such a lovely feeling when that rear spar slides between those two
plates. Lots of pictures of a vaguely aeroplane shape going over the top of
a loop in the front garden.
Many thanks to P.B. and others for all the man power. Many thanks to Frank
Justice for anticipating all the problems (You really need that 12" 3/16
bit don't you).
Cheers,
Leo Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cut down metal props |
>Van provided a solution to fix the cracked longeron. Two new elevators were
>built. Van also recommended installing additional elevator stiffners
>diagonally between the outboard rib and the first stiffner.
Just out of curiosity, what was the fix?
Thanks,
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Haan <bobh(at)synopsys.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimpling technique |
Bill,
Do you think the success comes form hitting the dimpling die lightly for
about 9 wacks as apposed to about 3 or 4 heavy wacks?
>Hi Folks,
>
>I just learned a technique from the list recently that I used regarding
>dimpling and back riveting that I think worked to perfection (smoother
>than a babys butt), so I thought I would pass it along with the
>highest of re
>commendations. This was on the left elevator of my RV-6.
>
>First, the tools:
> Cleaveland dimple dies
> Cleaveland large C rivet tool with the rug-covered table that
> they send the plans for with their C tool
> Tatco hand squeezer (used on stiffeners)
> Avery back-rivet tool
> Avery back-riveting flat steel plate
> Chicago 3X rivet gun with Sears compressor (25 gal) set at 30
> pounds
> 8 oz ball-pien hammer from Ace garbage table for $1.50
> (The most important tool here?)
>
>The key thing I learned was to use the small ball pien hammer when
>dimpling the skin. I tapped the rod holding the dimple die in the C
>tool about nine times each dimple (per the suggestion on the list).
>The first six taps had one sound (as the dimple was forming?) and the
>last three had a more solid higher pitched sound. I forget who put
>this technique on the list a short while back, but thank you, thank
>you. The results look fantastic.
>
>I was wishing someone had told me about this before I did any of the
>skins on the tail, so I thought gee I have to tell all those getting
>ready to start on their planes. I STRONGLY recommend that you give
>this method a try.
>
>Best regards,
>Bill Costello
>
>--
>
> ___ _____________________________
> \ \ _ _ / /
> \ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello Chicago \
> X-*#####*******......./ N97WC (reserved) /
> o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on left elev. \
> \__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com /
> \____________________________\
Bob Haan
Portland, OR
RV6-A both wings in the jigs LEs & Top Skins Riveted on, working on tanks
bobh(at)synopsys.com
Evenings 503-636-3550
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Immelmann(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Air Drill/Squeezers (reply) |
Makita cordless drills (old style with long battery in handle) are poorly
balanced and hard to change gear speeds. Forward/reverse switch is
inconvienient.
Get a 12 volt Panasonic. They're more expensive and worth all of it. Lighter,
more powerful, smaller and much better balanced. They run at higher RPM and
have more torque. Controls are much better too. BTW when you let off the
trigger, an electric brake stops rotation almost instantly. The batteries
charge in 15 minutes and 2 of them come with the drill. I'm a general
contractor and I've gone through some tools. This is the best cordless drill
out there.
Ed in Northridge
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Left Throttle - Right Starter? |
I'm going to outdo you all. I'm replacing the throttle in the center with a
foot pedal because it's what I'm used to in my cars. I wouldn't want to get
confused. I've also set out on a quest to find an air powered soldering iron
to complete my tool collection. Imagine how embarassed I'd be if I had other
builder types came by and they found me using unfashionable tools.
-N1GV (6A fuselage complete)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Dimpling technique |
You wrote:
>
>Bill,
>
>Do you think the success comes form hitting the dimpling die lightly
for
>about 9 wacks as apposed to about 3 or 4 heavy wacks?
>
That's the only explanation I can think of. I also did not use a dead
blow hammer like I did previously. I think I had a better 'feel' with
the standard 8 oz hammer.
April 16, 1996 - April 29, 1996
RV-Archive.digest.vol-bi