RV-Archive.digest.vol-bk
May 07, 1996 - May 16, 1996
> recall seeing an answer.
> I would suggest a copy of the book "How to License a Homebuilt Aircraft" by
> Paul Bergen Abbott.
> It sure helped me, cleared up some of the questions I had after studying the
> info in Tony Bingelis' book.
> John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
> johnd@our-town.com
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Don Karl karl@dg-rtp.dg.com (919)248-5915
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Shelton <k.j.shelton(at)larc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: ? wrt OAT probes. |
--snip--
> What is the longest length of thermocpuple wire that can be used ans
>still get an accurate measurement?
>
>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
>wstucklen(at)aol.com
>
We have several of the J-type thermocouples running ~100 ft. on the 737. I
would guess the accuracy to be +/- 2 degrees F. We use them all over the
A/C to catch overheating equipment, hot spots, .... We have a lot of noise
in the research system so we keep the thermocouple wiring away from the
various noise sources. They are OLD technology and we are steering toward
some new things on the market for our 757.
Kevin
Kevin Shelton KA4UWE
Lockheed Martin Engineering & Science Co.
NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton VA
(804) 864-4470 k.j.shelton(at)larc.nasa.gov
------------------------------------------------------------
To invent an airplane is nothing. To build one is something.
To fly is everything.
- Otto Lilienthal 1848-1896
-------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ? wrt OAT probes. |
writes:
>Being not satisfied with the measurements with the OAT probe in first the
>>left and then the rights NACA vent, I located it in the aileron bellcrank
>>access plate where it works very nicely.
>>
>>Jim Stugart Austin, Tx Derflieger(at)aol.com
>>
>>
>
> I wonder how accurate it would be when mounted on the bottom side of the
>wing root seal just back from the leading edge? I currently have mine in the
>left NACA vent, and it reads high. I suspect this is due to warm air leaking
>out of the cowl.
> What is the longest length of thermocpuple wire that can be used ans
>still get an accurate measurement?
>
>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
>wstucklen(at)aol.com
>
>
>
I forgot to mention I tried a third location just forward of the right wing
root and it also read high. I use a Radio Shack digital thermometer and I
believe it has a thermistor or something like it, and both wires are copper.
Therefore the lead length is no factor (within reason). Mine came with
about 15 feet of wire.
Jim Stugart
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ward9(at)llnl.gov (Rich Ward) |
| Subject: | Re: ? wrt OAT probes. |
> I wonder how accurate it would be when mounted on the bottom side of the
>wing root seal just back from the leading edge? I currently have mine in the
>left NACA vent, and it reads high. I suspect this is due to warm air leaking
>out of the cowl.
I've been thinking about this problem every since I finished building my
RMI MicroEncoder. The underside of the fuselage seemed ideal until I
thought about the possible affect of exhaust gases. Since I have a RV4, I
was thinking of mounting it on the underside of the cowl cheek - epoxy it
right in the fiberglass. It is a perfect location (at least I think it is),
the wire could run along the cheek right into the avionics area.
> What is the longest length of thermocpuple wire that can be used ans
>still get an accurate measurement?
The sensor on my RMI encode is an AD590 solid state sensor and its accuracy
for the cable lenghts we are talking about should easily be within the
specification. It seems to me the only issue is the voltage drop in the
signal wire from the sensor to the A/D converter. I checked the accuracy
of mine with a thermocouple module hooked up to a Fluke meter. Using the
4-5 foot cable that came with the kit the AD590 was right on (+-0.2) at 32,
76, and 212 degrees F. As far as the maximum length of thermocouple wire, I
don't know.
-- Rich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Gottschalk ((301) 286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: messed up left elevator stiffners... sigh... |
Stephen,
I did this too, although I caught it after one stiffner, in the rudder I
think. I tried re-dimpling the hole in the other direction and took a close
look at the dimple. I had cracks around mine and that was enough for me, so
I remade the stiffner. I had not dimpled my skin yet so my fix was easy.
There were some posts not too long ago about back drilling through dimpled
skins. You might want to check the archive if this is your situation. I
think it was in reference to wing skins. Good luck, this shouldn't be more
than an irritation.
-Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marc LeFevre <marcl(at)hpbs2412.boi.hp.com> |
It appears that it's time for a new topic on the list and I've
been pondering an idea even though I haven't even received my
RV-8 tail kit yet. The RVator compilation contains an article on
drag reduction in the area of wheel pants. The idea was to seal
the gaps between the pant and the wheel itself. What I was wondering
is why couldn't the wheel pant be hinged at the front so that it
could be lowered during flight to completely encase the wheel? Some
additional mechanism could be added to seal the wheel opening. I
have even envisioned an automatic system with a small airfoil on
the sides of the pant that in normal cruise would not lift the pant,
but when in ground effect (as in landing) would lift the pant so that
the wheel was exposed.
I know that there's probably more risk/safety problems than drag
reduction improvements, but it's still and interesting idea to
ponder.
Marc LeFevre
Waiting to start my first homebuilt (RV-8)
rv8(at)hpbs2412.boi.hp.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Becki Orndorff <rso(at)css.ncifcrf.gov> |
| Subject: | are quick build kits primered? |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB3C12.0DC4CDA0
We received the first quick build kit in January so we could produce =
the videos for it (at Van's request). The kit we received was primered =
with the Sherman Williams wash. I suspect the others will be done =
similarly.
Becki Orndorff
----------
From: =
ix.netcom.com!Tailspin(at)matronics.com[SMTP:ix.netcom.com!Tailspin(at)matronic=
s.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 04, 1996 7:59 AM
Subject: RV-List: are quick build kits primered?
I just got my latest issue of EAA Sport magazine, and it has a nice=20
picture of Van's quick build rv-6 kit in it.=20
After looking at the picture it struck me that none of the parts=20
looked like they were primered. Does anyone know if they are or not?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Becki Orndorff <rso(at)css.ncifcrf.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Airplane data |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB3C14.C489D380
All,
We did primer the interior of the first 6a, didn't primer the interior
=
of the second. If you live near the coast (water) I would primer, =
probably. If you intend to cover the interior sidewalls, etc with =
fabric, don't use put any other paint on those surfaces as the adhesive =
may make finish paint curdle (scrunch up - I don't know what the =
technical term is) and the fabric won't stick. Please call if you want =
further information (301) 293-1505.
Becki Orndorff
----------
From: Curt Reimer[SMTP:MBnet.MB.CA!Curt_Reimer(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Monday, May 06, 1996 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Airplane data
On 3 May 1996, Mel Barlow (IJD, Ct.) wrote:
>=20
> INTERIOR:Cockpit & Baggage - Laquered over the zinc chromate =
(MISTAKE!!)
>=20
Why?? What is the way to do this - skip the primer? I noticed the=20
Orndorffs don't prime their interior panels or seats.
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: messed up left elevator stiffners... sigh... |
VNET.IBM.COM!sheinlein(at)matronics.com writes:
>I re-dimpled one stiffner back and it looks fine, but hey, how
>can I really tell it will be ok?
>
>
Making them over will keep bad thoughts out of your mind when you are upside
down! Instead of trying to match drill to the skins, wouldn't it be easier
to just remake it, since you are now an expert?
Jim Stugart
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Becki Orndorff <rso(at)css.ncifcrf.gov> |
| Subject: | AIRCRAFT CERTIFICATION |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB3C15.D45C0200
All,
George and I have a video on how to certify your homebuilt. Please call
or write (301) 293-1505.
Becki Orndorff
----------
From: John Darby[SMTP:our-town.com!johnd(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Monday, May 06, 1996 8:42 PM
Subject: RV-List: AIRCRAFT CERTIFICATION
Some one a week or so asked about how to get the a/c certified. I don't
recall seeing an answer.
I would suggest a copy of the book "How to License a Homebuilt Aircraft" by
Paul Bergen Abbott.
It sure helped me, cleared up some of the questions I had after studying the
info in Tony Bingelis' book.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Becki Orndorff <rso(at)css.ncifcrf.gov> |
A very large and special thanks to each of you who replied to my =
request for information about flights to aid medical patients. I have =
passed a the replies on and they have been very helpfull so far. With =
yours and God's help, she will get the treatment she needs. THANKS to =
you all!
Becki Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Spar riveting |
Pat ,
Building the RV's is easy however is does take time , care and help from
others. That the best part of the RV movement is the help from others, there
are lots of others willing to help. If something on the video's is not clear
please write or call 301-293-1505 so I may help ....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen) |
| Subject: | Bob Nuckolls' Book |
Hi,
There seems to be a lot of interest in Bob Nuckolls' book. I too would
like to buy a copy since I am just at the stage where I have to install
circuit breakers and/or fuses. I was planning to use circuit breakers
which are also switches. It seems to me that if one uses fuses, then
one would still need switches. Wouldn't it be simpler to use
combination circuit breakers and switches? Could someone please e-mail
me privately and give me price and ordering directions on Bob's book.
Thanks, Peter B. Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com
_________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pilla(at)emmanuel.espinc.com (Michael Pilla) |
| Subject: | Re: messed up left elevator stiffners... sigh... |
> I did this too, although I caught it after one stiffner, in the rudder I
> think. I tried re-dimpling the hole in the other direction and took a close
> look at the dimple. I had cracks around mine and that was enough for me, so
> I remade the stiffner. I had not dimpled my skin yet so my fix was easy.
> There were some posts not too long ago about back drilling through dimpled
> skins. You might want to check the archive if this is your situation. I
> think it was in reference to wing skins. Good luck, this shouldn't be more
> than an irritation.
Confession is good for the soul, right? I, too, did this, but on only one
stiffener. What I did was to use the flat set and squeeze the dimple flat
and then dimple in the correct direction. I carefully inspected the holes
and there was no cracking. I tried doing a complete reverse dimple on some
scrap and did get the cracking, but the two step process of flattening and
then dimpling correctly seemed to work.
Mike Pilla
pilla(at)espinc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <tcraig-stearman(at)laugate1.lau.aetc.af.mil> (Tom Craig-Stearman) |
| Subject: | Elevator stiffener dimpling problem |
Stephen Heinlein,
About your backwards-dimpled elevator stiffeners:
I sympathize with your plight. I have thrown away several ruined parts on
my RV-4. I have occasionally dimpled one or two holes backward in a line,
and didn't think it a problem to simply re-dimple them the right way. I
don't know about re-dimpling all of the stiffeners, though.
Have you already dimpled the elevator skin? If not, it would not be too
big a job to make new stiffeners and match-drill the holes. If you have
already dimpled the skin, it would be very difficult to match the holes.
In that case, I would be tempted to just re-dimple the stiffeners.
The problem, of course, is that dimpling the holes two ways might
work-harden the holes and possibly make them more susceptible to fatigue
cracks. However, if Van says it is okay, it is probably okay.
Good luck,
Tom Craig-Stearman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Gottschalk ((301) 286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: interior painting |
Dave and listers,
I've been painting with Imron for years and really like the product and
would like to add a few comments. Colvar (sp) is the primer he probably
recommended. It is two part epoxy and very tenacious. It is not a sanding
primer, so your prep work needs to be good before you spray it. One problem
with the Imron for interior work is that it only comes in high gloss as near
as I know. It will reflect a lot of sunlight. Another problem with Imron
is that it's very toxic. At a minimum you will want a respirator and full
suit to shoot it. I would also recommend a fresh air mask system as well.
I have not used on yet, but I know how toxic Imron is and plan to when I
paint my RV6a. I use a full suit and respirator just to spray Veriprime.
About 15 years ago I had a bad experience so I do not take DuPont safety
recommendations lightly. I saw a nice fresh air mask system at Sun & Fun
this year that looks nice and costs about $500. If anyone wants additional
information let me know, I picked up some cut sheets on it.
-Gene
geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov
>On the subject of painting the cabin/baggage area:
>
>I've chosen Imron in a standard fleet grey color for this. When I was
>trying to decide what to use, I went to see the automotive paint supplier
>whom I've been doing business with for a long time. I told him I wanted
>something very scuff-resistant. We came to the conclusion that Imron
>would be the best thing for the job.
>
>For best adhesion, DuPont recommends the following steps:
>
>Alimiprep
>Alodine
>Prime with Veriprime
>Prime with an epoxy primer (I forget the dupont product's name)
>Apply the Imron.
>
>Best Regards,
>Dave Barnhart
>rv-6 sn 23744
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen) |
Hi,
I was talking to Dave Harris who has two BD-5s, one of which is a jet,
about battery boxes. I told him I was looking for a polyethylene
battery box. As Bob Nuckolls said, Dave also said that he doesn't like
battery boxes primarily because they are heavy. Dave suggested simply
putting the battery in a plastic bag to contain any corrosive
liquids and then just clamping it down. Is that a common practice? Is
there a danger of battery gasses being trapped in the plastic bag and
creating an explosive atmosphere? I suppose the bag could be vented.
Any comments or ideas would be appreciated.
Peter Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com
_____________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | billphil(at)ix.netcom.com (William Phillips ) |
| Subject: | Gyroscopic and Other loads on Belt Drive Front Bearing |
Ive received quite a bit of email concerning the loads on the front
end of the RV-6A we are building using the Chevy Vortec engine. We
used the following measurements and assumptions in acquiring bearings:
1.43 Belt Drive - 14mm x 85mm
4.3L Chevy V-6 Engine
Estimated Rotating Elements:
Wt Arm Moment
Shaft 4.4 6.2 27.28
Prop Flng. 3.2 11.1 35.52
Lg Sprocket 9.0 3.25 29.25
Prop. Etc. 36.4 13.88 505.23
Totals 53 11.27 597.28
Combined Vert Loads:
2.5 g Mass Acceleration = 133 lb
Prop Pitch Velocity 1 rad/s
Pop Yaw Velocity 2.5 rad/s
Combined Pitch-Yaw=2.7 rad/s (vector sum)
Belt Tension =(2 x Prop Torque)/7.02in(length to center of Prop Hub)
76inx36lb Prop Moment of Inertia=1.93lf-ft-sec^2
Prop Gyro Moment =12in x 1.93 x 2.7 x N rad/s
Front Bearing Vert. Load=133 +Belt Ten/2 + Gyro Moment/7.5in
Engine RPM Prop RPM Front Bearing Vert Load (lb)
3400 2375 2885
3610 2525 3007
4000 2797 3202
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: IFR experiences in RV-6A |
Tom:
I regularly fly my RV-6A IFR. To date, I have over 100 Hrs of actual in
it. Fact is, I got my IFR rating in this aircraft. I haven't flown many other
types IFR, but I would say that it's a good platform if you constantly work
at flying it. It is quite sensitive to pitch in turbulence, and somewhat in
roll. It's much more sensitive than a Bonanza or Skylane RG and must be
"FLOWN" all the time. I have a Centry I wing leveler and do use it on long
trips and to take amended clearances while flying alone. Sure would be nice
to put in altitude hold as well, for total hands off flying on those really
long enroute segments.
Hope that helps....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
> *** SNIP ***
>The only reason I'd vetoed the RV-6A in the past was the long build
>time. With the quick build option I'm having to reevaluate all my
>aircraft building decisions. The speed of the RV is appealing, as is the
>strong reputation of Vans and the strong builder-to-builder information
>flow I've seen in this mailing list.
>
>I think my biggest concern is that I want a plane that's stable enough
>for IFR use. I owned a Grumman AA1 (Lynx) for 3 years, and flew it IFR
>quite a bit, so I'm used to a less-than-rock-stable platform. I'd like
>to hear the experiences of RV-6 owners regarding flying the plane IFR.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Tim Lewis
>San Antonio TX
>(EAA Ch 35)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thomas N. Martin" <103212.65(at)CompuServe.COM> |
I just installed a used DG and it lags in steep turns and then never does catch
up. I suspect corrosion is the problem. Is there any way to introduce a
lubricant into the system. Has anybody tinkered with one of these things. It
might be fun, if it was practical, to repair it myself. Thanks in advance
Tom Martin
RV-4 120 hours
BTW I just installed the firewall and floor insulation kit from tennessee that
is advertised in Sport Aviation. It is a good kit and the first flight was
encouraging. the airplane seems more "solid"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator stiffener dimpling problem |
> ... If you have
> already dimpled the skin, it would be very difficult to match the holes.
> In that case, I would be tempted to just re-dimple the stiffeners.
I agree you should probably try to avoid back-drilling through dimpled
skin -- it's too easy to wallow out the holes (I know, I've done it!).
But I can think of at least one way to do it without using the skin as
a template (I'm sure there are others): Just flatten out the holes in
the stiffeners and nest them inside the new ones and use them as
templates. Assuming .016 extra edge distance from having the flange of
the stiffener in there isn't a problem of course. If your edge distance
is too close then just nest them the other way and drill through
the bottom side.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
Dan:
I had the same problem when I wired in my KX-125! There is an output that
has to be tied back into an input. Can't remember the pin numbers or names
but it has to do with the VOR as an output, and the display input. If you
don't find it on the wiring diagram, I can look it up at home. Let me know.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
>
>I need some advice guys. I've got a KX-125 and can't seem to find any
>VOR signals. When I tune to the ABQ VOR I do hear the weather forcast
>(113.2) but not very clearly, the FLAG annunciator always stays on.
>On other frequencies I don't hear the morse code and FLAG is on. From
>reading the instructions this means the radio hasn't "found" a signal.
>I've got a home built vor antenna build into a wing tip, it's a half
>wave dipole (each section 25"). Does anyone else have a similar set-up
>that's working?
>This weekend I'm going to pull the wing-tip and check all the coax
>connections for continuity, anything else I can do while I'm playing
>around? I guess I could buy a VOR antenna and install it but that
>is my last resort. My GPS works fine so I'm not in a panic to get this
>thing fixed but I would like it working at some point. TIA
>
>Dan Boudro
>RV-4 N9167Z
>Albuquerque, NM
>dboudro(at)nmia.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wesleyt <wesleyt(at)twave.net> |
I am ready to primer the wing ribs and rear spar and I was wondering what
type of primer to use.
I have been using the two part epoxy maetal primer from Aircraft Spruce
but I see that Glidden has a two part metal epoxy primer (dark brown).
Has anybody used any other types of epoxy primers?
Wesley T Robinson
wesleyt(at)twave.net
Finishing left wing (6A)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Boxes |
>Hi,
>
>I was talking to Dave Harris who has two BD-5s, one of which is a jet,
>about battery boxes. I told him I was looking for a polyethylene
>battery box. As Bob Nuckolls said, Dave also said that he doesn't like
>battery boxes primarily because they are heavy. Dave suggested simply
>putting the battery in a plastic bag to contain any corrosive
>liquids and then just clamping it down. Is that a common practice? Is
>there a danger of battery gasses being trapped in the plastic bag and
>creating an explosive atmosphere? I suppose the bag could be vented.
>Any comments or ideas would be appreciated.
>
>Peter Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com
>_____________________________________________________
>
>
Pete,
My suggestion is to use a Concord RG battery without the box. Just be sure
to electrically shield the positive terminal.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: interior painting |
The dupont epoxy primer is Corlar. It is very hard to find anyone that
stocks it. So we just use VariPrime.
You can add a 'flattening' agent and it will kill the shine.
Jim Stugart did this on his pannel and I did the same. I also shot
my RV4 roll bar with the flattened Imron. The rest of the interior is
the normal gloss.
Herman
> Dave and listers,
>
> I've been painting with Imron for years and really like the product and
> would like to add a few comments. Colvar (sp) is the primer he probably
> recommended. It is two part epoxy and very tenacious. It is not a sanding
> primer, so your prep work needs to be good before you spray it. One problem
> with the Imron for interior work is that it only comes in high gloss as near
> as I know. It will reflect a lot of sunlight. Another problem with Imron
> is that it's very toxic. At a minimum you will want a respirator and full
> suit to shoot it. I would also recommend a fresh air mask system as well.
> I have not used on yet, but I know how toxic Imron is and plan to when I
> paint my RV6a. I use a full suit and respirator just to spray Veriprime.
> About 15 years ago I had a bad experience so I do not take DuPont safety
> recommendations lightly. I saw a nice fresh air mask system at Sun & Fun
> this year that looks nice and costs about $500. If anyone wants additional
> information let me know, I picked up some cut sheets on it.
>
> -Gene
> geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov
>
> >On the subject of painting the cabin/baggage area:
> >
> >I've chosen Imron in a standard fleet grey color for this. When I was
> >trying to decide what to use, I went to see the automotive paint supplier
> >whom I've been doing business with for a long time. I told him I wanted
> >something very scuff-resistant. We came to the conclusion that Imron
> >would be the best thing for the job.
> >
> >For best adhesion, DuPont recommends the following steps:
> >
> >Alimiprep
> >Alodine
> >Prime with Veriprime
> >Prime with an epoxy primer (I forget the dupont product's name)
> >Apply the Imron.
> >
> >Best Regards,
> >Dave Barnhart
> >rv-6 sn 23744
> >
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
Frank Justice's "Jigging the Fuselage" refers to an alternate way of
drilling the gear leg mounts on a 6A. He states that this is located in a
document called "GEARLEG.DOC". I looked in Hovan's home page and can't see
this document. Any suggestions?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892
2300 Oakmont Way #205 Fax: 541-342-5492
Eugene, Oregon 97401 email: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Re: interior painting |
Gene, Dave, and Listers
I was planning on leaving my interior with just a coat of the Dupont Light
Grey Corlar two part primer. It seems extremly tough and I like the color.
Any problems with this?
Ross Mickey
>Dave and listers,
>
>I've been painting with Imron for years and really like the product and
>would like to add a few comments. Colvar (sp) is the primer he probably
>recommended. It is two part epoxy and very tenacious. It is not a sanding
>primer, so your prep work needs to be good before you spray it. One problem
>with the Imron for interior work is that it only comes in high gloss as near
>as I know. It will reflect a lot of sunlight. Another problem with Imron
>is that it's very toxic. At a minimum you will want a respirator and full
>suit to shoot it. I would also recommend a fresh air mask system as well.
>I have not used on yet, but I know how toxic Imron is and plan to when I
>paint my RV6a. I use a full suit and respirator just to spray Veriprime.
>About 15 years ago I had a bad experience so I do not take DuPont safety
>recommendations lightly. I saw a nice fresh air mask system at Sun & Fun
>this year that looks nice and costs about $500. If anyone wants additional
>information let me know, I picked up some cut sheets on it.
>
>-Gene
>geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov
>
>>On the subject of painting the cabin/baggage area:
>>
>>I've chosen Imron in a standard fleet grey color for this. When I was
>>trying to decide what to use, I went to see the automotive paint supplier
>>whom I've been doing business with for a long time. I told him I wanted
>>something very scuff-resistant. We came to the conclusion that Imron
>>would be the best thing for the job.
>>
>>For best adhesion, DuPont recommends the following steps:
>>
>>Alimiprep
>>Alodine
>>Prime with Veriprime
>>Prime with an epoxy primer (I forget the dupont product's name)
>>Apply the Imron.
>>
>>Best Regards,
>>Dave Barnhart
>>rv-6 sn 23744
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV retracts? |
Marc, Bede did this on his BD-4?. It had wheel pants with sliding doors to
cover the tire. I think he also tried it on a C-172 however it was a long
time ago and the memory is fading. I only saw photos of them but they looked
fast. Bruce Bell RV-4 #2888
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: messed up left elevator stiffners... sigh... |
On Tue, 7 May 1996 sheinlein(at)VNET.IBM.COM wrote:
> I DIMPLED ALL MY STIFFNERS BACKWARDS!!! (key word being "ALL"!)
>
> I re-dimpled one stiffner back and it looks fine, but hey, how
> can I really tell it will be ok?
I'd remake 'em. It won't cost much. I remember dimpling a row of holes on
one of my skins backwards, and redimpled them OK. The difference is, I
can see any cracks that develop in the skins. With stiffeners, you'll
probably never know til its too late and your elevator starts fluttering
or something.
Curt Reimer
(committed to RV-6 after postponing the decision as long as possible and
STILL debating the 6 vs 6A question...I wish Van's would hurry up with
that retractable nosewheel option..."Uh-oh, looks like a gusty crosswind
on landing" Whirrrr. "Whats that? Cleared to land on the grass?" Whirrrr.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: messed up left elevator stiffners... sigh... |
Make some new ones. It is not worth it to try and save them. Learning is a
continuous process and it is not cheap! Bruce Bell RV-4 #2888
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: messed up left elevator stiffners... sigh... |
>I DIMPLED ALL MY STIFFNERS BACKWARDS!!! (key word being "ALL"!)
>I re-dimpled one stiffner back and it looks fine, but hey, how
>can I really tell it will be ok?
>
>Any suggestions and comments are appreciated! Thanks!
>
>Stephen Heinlein (RV-6/6A... pushing off decision as long as possible!)
>sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com
>
Stephen;
You're no virgin when it comes to this! I did the same on one side, since I
don't know zilch about metallurgy, stress analysis etc. etc. I did the
'shade tree' thing. I re dimpled them the other way, installed them and am
now flying them. I don't see any cracks, don't hear any rattling around
etc. I'm sure that some one with a lot more knowledge than I have may say
this isn't safe or something, but it's your choice. One thing you might
consider, if it really worries you, is to add a strip to the stiffner, after
you've 'redimp.' them, and rivet through the skin, stiff. and the strip.
This should redistribute the stress (?), but if you do all of that, might as
well go for new stiffners.
Incidentally, I did the same on one of my wing panels, one night about 3 am.
My fix was the same. Wing skin hasn't peeled off, yet.
It's your choice.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chinkley(at)ix.netcom.com (Curtis R. Hinkley ) |
| Subject: | Re: Bob Nuckolls' Book |
You wrote:
>
>Hi,
>
>There seems to be a lot of interest in Bob Nuckolls' book. I too
would like to buy a copy since I am just at the stage where I have to
install circuit breakers and/or fuses. I was planning to use circuit
breakers which are also switches. It seems to me that if one uses
fuses, then one would still need switches. Wouldn't it be simpler to
use combination circuit breakers and switches? Could someone please
e-mail me privately and give me price and ordering directions on Bob's
book.
>Thanks, Peter B. Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com
>_________________________________________________________________
I think it would be easier if you would post it to the list, then those
of us that would like a copy can order one and those that are not
interested can delete the message.
Curtis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | paulried(at)Interpath.com |
Just finished drilling and dimpling all of the holes on the stab of my 6A. One
last thing to
decide before riviting the skin down.... should I trim the skin flush at the root
and cut the tip
skins to the prescribed dimensions before I rivet or worry about it later?
Thanks
Paul Riedlinger
paulried(at)interpath.com
RV-6A stab almost done
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: INTERNET:WStucklen(at)aol.com, INTERNET:WStucklen(at)aol.com
RE: Power Bus?
>Bob:
> I've been reading the thread on the blade type fuses for a couple od days
>now, and still don't know exactly the type of fuse you are referring to. Are
>these the now standard auto fuses: plastic bodies with blade connectors?
Yes. Bussmann (and perhaps others) offer blocks of fuseholders for these
devices in groups of 6 to 20. B&C has (at my request) stocked the 10
and 20 slot devices since I've yet to see them in distribution in single
lot quantities. B&C has to buy them in boxes of 10 at a whack.
> If this is the case, and you are mounting them under the panel, how does
>one go about replacing a failed fuse while in flight?
Why would anyone ever want to replace a fuse in flight. When fuses pop,
something is broke. When pilot's start fiddling with breakers/fuses
in flight, they've abbrogated duties as pilot for those of systems
failure analysis and repair . . . which is a fruitless effort 99%
of the time. If one's system is designed for failure tollerance,
then the mechanic's hat and tools can be stowed until on the ground.
> As far as using a flattened pipe for a power bus is concerned, if one is
>careful to flatten the pipe as much as possible, the amount of contact area
>lost due to the remaining curvature of the material would result in only a
>slightly higher contact current density (ie, Amps per square inch). Given the
>area of a standard breaker of switch connection , and the currents that most
>of our protected equipment use, the resultant contact current density should
>still be reasonable.
> Possibly the only exception might be the landing light circuit, which
>could draw 20 - 25 Amps, and the alternator main which could draw full plus
alternator currents. These contact areas might require special attention to
contact area.
Current isn't the only issue here. First, the practice leaves you with a
bus bar that LOOKS like it was made from a mashed pipe. It's never quite
flat or straight. This condition compromises vibration resistance of
of the thru-screws to loosening. It's so EASY to get a piece of sheet
or bar brass from a hobby shop and build a real bus bar . . .
The fuse holders mount in 5 minutes and take care of ALL the breaker
tasks plus elimination of the time, dollars and panel space needed to
install traditional breaker arrays.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gyroscopic and Other loads on Belt Drive Front Bearing |
I am not a ME, but the 2.5 G's sounds too low.
I see that much on the G meter in bumpy air.
Doing any kind of acro will put around 4G's on it.
Wouldn't that be a safer design point?
Herman
> Ive received quite a bit of email concerning the loads on the front
> end of the RV-6A we are building using the Chevy Vortec engine. We
> used the following measurements and assumptions in acquiring bearings:
>
>
> 1.43 Belt Drive - 14mm x 85mm
> 4.3L Chevy V-6 Engine
>
> Estimated Rotating Elements:
> Wt Arm Moment
> Shaft 4.4 6.2 27.28
> Prop Flng. 3.2 11.1 35.52
> Lg Sprocket 9.0 3.25 29.25
> Prop. Etc. 36.4 13.88 505.23
>
> Totals 53 11.27 597.28
>
> Combined Vert Loads:
>
> 2.5 g Mass Acceleration = 133 lb
> Prop Pitch Velocity 1 rad/s
> Pop Yaw Velocity 2.5 rad/s
>
> Combined Pitch-Yaw=2.7 rad/s (vector sum)
>
> Belt Tension =(2 x Prop Torque)/7.02in(length to center of Prop Hub)
>
> 76inx36lb Prop Moment of Inertia=1.93lf-ft-sec^2
> Prop Gyro Moment =12in x 1.93 x 2.7 x N rad/s
>
> Front Bearing Vert. Load=133 +Belt Ten/2 + Gyro Moment/7.5in
>
> Engine RPM Prop RPM Front Bearing Vert Load (lb)
>
> 3400 2375 2885
> 3610 2525 3007
> 4000 2797 3202
>
>
>
>
--
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bob Nuckolls' Book |
Wouldn't it be simpler to use
>combination circuit breakers and switches? Could someone please e-mail
>me privately and give me price and ordering directions on Bob's book.
>Thanks, Peter B. Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com
>_________________________________________________________________
Peter, wait til you read the book and the full plan.
Bob, I believe this is your dance?
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: Dan Boudro, INTERNET:dboudro(at)nmia.com
RE: VOR
>I need some advice guys. I've got a KX-125 and can't seem to find any
>VOR signals. When I tune to the ABQ VOR I do hear the weather forcast
>(113.2) but not very clearly, the FLAG annunciator always stays on.
Dan,
When you say "annunciator always stay on" I presume you mean that
it displays the word OFF as opposed to TO or FROM. If you're not
hearing the voice clearly, it COULD mean a weak signal . . . to weak
to pump up the VOR demodulation circuits in the receiver.
>On other frequencies I don't hear the morse code and FLAG is on.
Normally, if the IDENTIFIER cannot be heard, this the station's
way of telling you that it's broke. If it happens on more than
on station, more likely, it's just too weak to hear. Does that
model of radio have a VOICE/IDENT switching feature? I.e. can you
set a switch to enhance the identifier tones?
>From reading the instructions this means the radio hasn't "found" a signal.
>I've got a home built vor antenna build into a wing tip, it's a half
>wave dipole (each section 25"). Does anyone else have a similar set-up
>that's working?
Does your tip fairing allow the antenna to stretch out fully or
nearly so? The effect close proximity of the antenna to the tip rib
will most certainly DETUNE it . . . 50" is indeed one half wavelength
in FREE space . . an antenna analyzer should be used to trim the
antenna in place. I'm certain it should be shorter.
>This weekend I'm going to pull the wing-tip and check all the coax
>connections for continuity, anything else I can do while I'm playing
>around? I guess I could buy a VOR antenna and install it but that
>is my last resort. My GPS works fine so I'm not in a panic to get this
>thing fixed but I would like it working at some point.
Have you checked Bob Archer's offerings in tip mounted VOR antennas?
He has a gamma-matched quarter wave antenna designed to mount on a
tip rib and is properly shortened to allow for rib proximity. If
you have no reason to suspect the VOR receiver is hurting, then antenna
investigations are in order. You should be able to receive a vor
station from 10 miles away using wet string! I suspect there's a
rather basic fault with your current antenna.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | interior painting |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB3C67.66740C40
Gene,
Here is a thought for you......about $500 breather set-up. I used to =
teach SCUBA diving. An 80 Cu. Ft. alum. tank sells used for around $120 =
or less.
Older steel tanks (72 Cu. Ft.) can be had for as little as $50. An old =
used regulator with at least a single second stage can be had for less =
than $100. You can even wear a SCUBA mask for eye protection. You can =
either strap it on you back or get a longer hose. The burn time on =
either tank will exceed
1 1/2 Hrs. (Usually.) You will have a totally self contained =
environment. Remember you are not using it for life support so you can =
get the used cheap older stuff. I think I have seen it for sale in =
almost every major city I've been in.=20
I used this set up once when painting a car with Dupont Centauri. It =
worked quite well. Only difference was that I used a smaller tank that I =
have that was lighter. Just a thought..... Al prober(at)iwaynet.net
----------
From: Gene Gottschalk ((301) =
286-0708)[SMTP:rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov!geneg(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 1996 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: interior painting
Dave and listers,
I've been painting with Imron for years and really like the product and
would like to add a few comments. Colvar (sp) is the primer he probably
recommended. It is two part epoxy and very tenacious. It is not a =
sanding
primer, so your prep work needs to be good before you spray it. One =
problem
with the Imron for interior work is that it only comes in high gloss as =
near
as I know. It will reflect a lot of sunlight. Another problem with =
Imron
is that it's very toxic. At a minimum you will want a respirator and =
full
suit to shoot it. I would also recommend a fresh air mask system as =
well.
I have not used on yet, but I know how toxic Imron is and plan to when I
paint my RV6a. I use a full suit and respirator just to spray =
Veriprime.
About 15 years ago I had a bad experience so I do not take DuPont safety
recommendations lightly. I saw a nice fresh air mask system at Sun & =
Fun
this year that looks nice and costs about $500. If anyone wants =
additional
information let me know, I picked up some cut sheets on it.
-Gene
geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov
>On the subject of painting the cabin/baggage area:
>
>I've chosen Imron in a standard fleet grey color for this. When I was=20
>trying to decide what to use, I went to see the automotive paint =
supplier=20
>whom I've been doing business with for a long time. I told him I =
wanted=20
>something very scuff-resistant. We came to the conclusion that Imron=20
>would be the best thing for the job.
>
>For best adhesion, DuPont recommends the following steps:
>
>Alimiprep
>Alodine
>Prime with Veriprime
>Prime with an epoxy primer (I forget the dupont product's name)
>Apply the Imron.
>
>Best Regards,
>Dave Barnhart
>rv-6 sn 23744
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Bob Nuckolls' Book |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB3C69.40AAF940
Peter.=20
I have ordered Bob's book and am still waiting for it. He said it was =
supposed to go to the printer yesterday. (5/6). I believe him. You can =
either E-mail him at 72770.552(at)compuserve.com or call him at (316) =
685-8615. I would suggest the E-mail route. He will E-mail you back an =
order form and some good info. I also called him and he is one very nice =
guy....typical RV person!!!! Good luck.Al
prober(at)iwaynet.net
----------
From: Peter B. Mortensen[SMTP:ix.netcom.com!n21pe(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 1996 2:27 PM
Subject: RV-List: Bob Nuckolls' Book
Hi,
There seems to be a lot of interest in Bob Nuckolls' book. I too would=20
like to buy a copy since I am just at the stage where I have to install=20
circuit breakers and/or fuses. I was planning to use circuit breakers=20
which are also switches. It seems to me that if one uses fuses, then=20
one would still need switches. Wouldn't it be simpler to use=20
combination circuit breakers and switches? Could someone please e-mail=20
me privately and give me price and ordering directions on Bob's book. =20
Thanks, Peter B. Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com
_________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New subscriber |
Tom,
Welcome aboard. Sounds as if you're going first class.
Do I denote a little of Laughlin (Laff-in) in your address?
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR experiences in RV-6A |
Fred,
I am planning an IFR aircraft and tossing up the wing leveler issue. I would
be very interested in your experience with the Century I , costs,
installation site, degree of difficulty etc..
Thanks,
Leo Davies 6A
Fuselage right side up!
>Tom:
> I regularly fly my RV-6A IFR. To date, I have over 100 Hrs of actual in
>it. Fact is, I got my IFR rating in this aircraft. I haven't flown many other
>types IFR, but I would say that it's a good platform if you constantly work
>at flying it. It is quite sensitive to pitch in turbulence, and somewhat in
>roll. It's much more sensitive than a Bonanza or Skylane RG and must be
>"FLOWN" all the time. I have a Centry I wing leveler and do use it on long
>trips and to take amended clearances while flying alone. Sure would be nice
>to put in altitude hold as well, for total hands off flying on those really
>long enroute segments.
> Hope that helps....
>
>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
>wstucklen(at)aol.com
>
>
>
>> *** SNIP ***
>>The only reason I'd vetoed the RV-6A in the past was the long build
>>time. With the quick build option I'm having to reevaluate all my
>>aircraft building decisions. The speed of the RV is appealing, as is the
>>strong reputation of Vans and the strong builder-to-builder information
>>flow I've seen in this mailing list.
>>
>>I think my biggest concern is that I want a plane that's stable enough
>>for IFR use. I owned a Grumman AA1 (Lynx) for 3 years, and flew it IFR
>>quite a bit, so I'm used to a less-than-rock-stable platform. I'd like
>>to hear the experiences of RV-6 owners regarding flying the plane IFR.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Tim Lewis
>>San Antonio TX
>>(EAA Ch 35)
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | AeroElectric Connection |
Bibliography of Printed Works
by Bob Nuckolls
"No Juice." Aviation Consumer, February 1995
"Aircraft Electrical Systems: A philosophy for Reliability."
Sport Aviation, February 1993, Page 80.
"Fuses or Circuit Breakers?" Sport Aviation, March 1993, Page 86.
"Brushes for Aircraft." Sport Aviation, April 1993, Page 62.
"Solid State Light Dimming." Sport Aviation, June 1993, Page 50.
"Magneto Switch Options." Sport Aviation, July 1993, Page 56.
"The Batteries are Coming, the Batteries are Coming!!!!"
Sport Aviation, August 1993, Page 90.
"Crowbar Over Voltage Protection." Sport Aviation, December 1993, Page 68.
"Ignition Battery Manager: Reliable Aircraft Operations with Battery
Powered Ignition Systems." Sport Aviation, January 1994, Page 84.
"Failure Mode Effects Analysis: Confidence by design." Sport Aviation,
June 1994, Page 83.
"Avionics Master Switches." Sport Aviation, July 1994, Page 80.
"Battery Alternatives for Hand-held Radios." Sport Aviation,
March 1995, Page 30.
"Ignition Battery Manager - Revisited" Sport Aviation, August 1995,
Page 99.
"Aircraft Electrical Systems for Homebuilders", SportPlane Resource
Guide, 1995/1996 edition published by Kindred Spirit Press,
3001 21st Street NW, Winterhaven, FL 33881.
"When is a Good Ground Not?" Kit Airplane Builder, February 1996.
"Anatomy of a Close Call" will appear soon in Kitplanes magazine.
The AeroElectric Connection, an Information Service and Guide to Theory,
Operation, Design and Fabrication of Aircraft Elec trical Systems.
A book (270+ pages), newsletter and consult ing service offered
through Medicine River Press, 6936 Bainbridge Road, Wichita, KS
67226-1008. Phone (316) 685- 8617. e-mail to 72770.552(at)compuserve.com.
Be sure to check out Bob's forums in the tents at Oshkosh every year.
There's at least one daytime forum on a specific topic and an evening,
open Q&A marathon.
The AeroElectric Connection
In development for over 10 years, the AeroElectric Connection is a
definitive work on electrical systems for light aircraft. Over 1000
readers in 12 countries.
Written, illustrated and published by an engineer and educator with
over 35 years experience in electrical and electronics systems design.
Possible the only book you'll ever buy with the author's name, address
and phone number on the front cover; questions, comments and criticisms
welcome! If you don't talk to use we don't now what to write about!
Rapid response e-mail feedback. We try to check our mailbox two or
three times per day and answer immediately.
Yearly updating and periodical newsletters keep your documentation up
to date by subscription.
Newsletters: Hot Flashes from the AeroElectric Connection are mailed
periodically to cover timely topics and error corrections in other
printed materials. When the book is finished, the newsletters will
step up to a quarterly publication rate.
Wiring Diagram Services: How are you going to remember where all those
wires go five years from now? When the time comes to sell your airplane,
how are you going to tell your prospective buyer where all the wires go?
Readers may wish to take advantage of customized power distribution
diagrams and/or complete page per system wire books and wire marking
tailored to your airplane and equipment . . . contact us for details.
The Book: Materials in print now total over 270 pages with lots of
illustrations. Unlike books nailed between hard covers which cannot
change, the 'Connection is a dynamic work that grows with new technology
and advancement of our collective experience . The book is 3-ring,
loose-leaf binder format to permit timely updates.
Chapters presently cover:
Chapter Topic
1 . . . . . . . . . DC Fundamentals
2 . . . . . . . . . Batteries
3 . . . . . . . . . Engine Driven Power Sources
4 . . . . . . . . . Voltage Regulators
5 . . . . . . . . . Grounding
6 . . . . . . . . . Over Voltage Protection
7 . . . . . . . . . Electrical System Instrumentation
8 . . . . . . . . . Wire Selection and Installation
9 . . . . . . . . . Wire Termination and Connectors
10 . . . . . . . Circuit Protection
11 . . . . . . . Switches Relays and Contactors
12 . . . . . . . Lighting and Lighting Controls
13 . . . . . . . Antennas and Feedlines
14 . . . . . . . Temperature Instrumentation
Appendix A List of Suppliers
Appendix C Catalog of Products and Services
Appendix K Do-it-yourself Avionics
Appendix Z Power Distribution Diagrams
========================= Order Form ======================================
Name _____________________________________________
Address:__________________________________________
City:_____________________State:_____ Zip:________
Phone(s): (______) _______________________________
Please enter my ( )NEW or ( ) RENEWAL subscription to the AeroElectric
Connection. I enclose US funds as follows:
>>>>>NOTE THE DIFFERENT PRICES FOR NORTH AMERICA AND OVERSEAS ORDERS<<<<<
N. America (Overseas)
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Make checks payable to Medicine River Press. Mail with form to 6936
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phone (316) 685-8617 or e-mail to 72770.552(at)compuserve.com 1/96
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Boxes |
>Pete,
>My suggestion is to use a Concord RG battery without the box. Just be sure
>to electrically shield the positive terminal.
>John Ammeter
>ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
>Seattle WA, USA
>RV-6 N16JA
>Flying 5 years
My sentiments EXACTLY . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen ) |
| Subject: | Re: messed up left elevator stiffners... sigh... |
Drill holes in the opposite side of the angles and call the wrongly
dimpled holes "lightening" holes.
Finn
You wrote:
>
>Well, I have successfully completed the HS, VS, rudder, and right
>elevator. Then, I got to the left elevator, carefully read the
>warning a few times about how everyone makes their empennage
>mistakes on this piece and vowed NOT TO MAKE ANY! sigh...
>
>Well, you guessed it... I got all the tough stuff done right,
>but I messed up the easy stuff!
>
>I DIMPLED ALL MY STIFFNERS BACKWARDS!!! (key word being "ALL"!)
>
>I called Van's and while their gut feel was that it probably would
>be ok to re-dimple them back in the proper direction, they didn't
>want to commit to this being safe. I don't blame them, because
>I'm sure no one has done any "testing" of such a screw-up!
>
>I've kinda resigned myself to re-making all the stiffners, but I
>wanted to run this by the RVLIST to see what you all thought...
>
>I re-dimpled one stiffner back and it looks fine, but hey, how
>can I really tell it will be ok?
>
>Any suggestions and comments are appreciated! Thanks!
>
>Stephen Heinlein (RV-6/6A... pushing off decision as long as
possible!)
>sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Peter - Switches Ques. |
FROM: Robert L. Nuckolls, III, 72770.552
DATE: 5/7/96 9:58 PM
Re: Bob Nuckolls' Book
>It seems to me that if one uses fuses, then one would still need switches.
Correct. However, you always need about 2 times MORE fuses than
switches. Switches are much less expensive than breaker/switches.
>Wouldn't it be simpler to use combination circuit breakers and switches? >Could
someone please e-mail me privately and give me price and ordering >directions
on Bob's book.
>Thanks, Peter B. Mortensen n21pex.netcom.com
I've e-mailed my infomercial data sheet to you. . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV retracts? |
| From: | haipilot(at)usa.pipeline.com (Hai Pilot) |
But I ain't never gonna forget your name so that can't be me.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: interior painting |
Why bother with the tank? Just use a regulator and a really long hose leading
outside. The airflow will always be into the tube, and out through the
regulator. In fact, I was thinking about using this surplus Isreali gas mask
I've got with a long hose attached to the inlet when I get to painting (oh,
maybe five years from now.) Heck, I could put a muffin fan at the end of the
hose and have a positive pressure system.
Built in eye protection too. Lousy peripheral vision though.
Just make sure the end of the hose is as far as possible from your exhaust
fan. That goes without saying.
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Peter - Switches Ques. |
Bob,
do you mind posting your commercial to the whole list?
Thanks
Leo Davies
leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
>FROM: Robert L. Nuckolls, III, 72770.552
>TO: Peter Mortensen, >internet:n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com
>DATE: 5/7/96 9:58 PM
>Re: Bob Nuckolls' Book
>
>>It seems to me that if one uses fuses, then one would still need switches.
>
> Correct. However, you always need about 2 times MORE fuses than
> switches. Switches are much less expensive than breaker/switches.
>
>>Wouldn't it be simpler to use combination circuit breakers and switches?
>Could someone please e-mail me privately and give me price and ordering
>directions on Bob's book.
>
>>Thanks, Peter B. Mortensen n21pex.netcom.com
>
> I've e-mailed my infomercial data sheet to you. . .
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gregory Young <gyoung(at)Net1.Net> |
Pete,
I've been flying a Concord RG35 in my Citabria for 2+ years... no box, =
no spills, no fumes, plenty of power to spin an IO320 even with about a =
15 ft cable run. The GelCells I used prior to the RG did not hold up as =
well (only 12-15 mo). BTW the RG stands for "recombinant gas" and is =
completely sealed - Concord also makes normal vented batteries. The RG =
is only a couple dollars more but well worth it. Highly recommended.
Greg Young
----------
From: Peter B. Mortensen[SMTP:ix.netcom.com!n21pe(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 1996 May, 07 14:04 PM
Subject: RV-List: Battery Boxes
Hi,
I was talking to Dave Harris who has two BD-5s, one of which is a jet,=20
about battery boxes. I told him I was looking for a polyethylene=20
battery box. As Bob Nuckolls said, Dave also said that he doesn't like=20
battery boxes primarily because they are heavy. Dave suggested simply=20
putting the battery in a plastic bag to contain any corrosive=20
liquids and then just clamping it down. Is that a common practice? Is=20
there a danger of battery gasses being trapped in the plastic bag and=20
creating an explosive atmosphere? I suppose the bag could be vented. =20
Any comments or ideas would be appreciated.
Peter Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com
_____________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: Cockpit Interior |
CompuServe.COM!102636.54(at)matronics.com,Internet writes:
On 5/6/96, Curt Reimer asked why I referred to my laquer over zinc chromate
cockpit paint as a mistake. Main problem is the laquer is not durable enough.
It
is too brittle and is chipping, Etc. If I were doing it today, I would find a
waterborne primer made by Deft, which Sikorsky uses in their helo. cabin
areas.
It is self priming & saves weight. I think they use it over alodine.
I can totally concur with the above remark.
In hindsight I wish I'd used a good epoxy paint on the interior instead of
lacquer over chromate. Part of the reason for doing it was finding a colour
that I could spray as I needed from cans...DON'T succumb to this, especially
on high traffic areas such as the canopy deck or even the roll bar (handhold).
I can see many years of small touch ups ahead.
Ken
RV6A test flight imminent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Mayer <72652.670(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Joel,
I received damaged skins when they delivered my RV-4 empennage kit.
Report it to the shipper and VAN's. I got new skins.
Steve
(Just removed VS from jig)
----- Forwarded Message -----
... The only problem was that the vertical
stabilizer skin was bent at the top due to rough handling or improper
packaging. I assume there's no problem just bending it back, but if there is
maybe someone could tip me off.
AB320FLYER(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PatK(at)gnn.com (Patrick Kelley) |
| Subject: | Re: Spar riveting |
I've adopted pretty much the same method, with the same results. Yes, my
legs start to lose their feeling after a few rivets, but that's also about
the time my arm gets tired and I go for coffee and inspect my work. At this
rate, I'll have more time in my spars than I do in the entire empennage
.
As for rivet length, I found that I had no problem with tipping rivets, but
was not able to get a good shop head on the longer rivets (too much mass to
move?), so I've made sure they are all at 1.5d. Anyway, I had to cut rivets
for the angle pieces. I am using the plier type and they do the job, but it
is a struggle. Fortunately, I am a guitarist and have quite strong hands,
but I think I'd rather have your tool. I just couldn't justify the cost for
the few rivets I needed to cut. Number 3 and 4 rivets cut easily.
PatK - RV-6A - Wing Spar #1 50% riveted
PatK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | COROTEC <70743.2727(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Hi All,
Anybody have any words of wisdom or special technique for making the dreaded
*unique cone shaped bend* on the fuselage. If you do, I would sure like to hear
about it since I have had limited success so far, but haven't gotten to the
point yet of *Oh no, now how am I going to fix that?*
BStobbe
RV-6
skinning fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: IFR experiences in RV-6A (fwd) |
Don:
>- 100 hrs "in it." Does that mean 100 hrs with IFR flight plan or
>does that mean 100 hrs where visibility was less than VFR?
That means 100 hours of actual IFR conditions. This would be the part of the
IFR flight logged as actual time where only the instruments were used. In my
case, this oes not include hood time. I perferr to pick those shitty days to
go someplace, just for the fun of IFR flying, and to keep current.
>- What is the cutoff point for you where you get uncomfortable?
>Just poke thru clouds? Enroute in clouds? Rain?
I get unconfortable with embedded thunderstorms and ice, and am VERY careful
about forcasted minimums at both the departure and destination airports.
Without a stormscope (boy do I wish my RV-6A had a bigger panel!), it's my
practice to be in a position to "see and avoid" thunderstorms. This means
accurate weather reports from the ground (FSS), or real time pilot reports
while enroute, or above the clouds so I can "see" the buildups. Rain doesn't
bother me to a point. I've been thru level 5 rain with no water leaks, just a
little paint off the prop's leading edge. (Level 5 rain is a hard downpour:
it makes a lot of noise when flying through it, and you do need to slow down
to keep the paint on the prop & wings. Also ALWAYS put on carb heat..)
>- Why the century I over navaid devices? Is century I much more
>expensive ($1200??? for navaid).
The Centry I is a certified IFR device, Navaid is not. Technically, it's not
legal to fly IFR and use the Navaid, just like it isn't legal to use a VFR
GPS as a primary instrument when flying IFR. Is it done? Yes, but that
doesn't make it legal.
>- Sorry, but what is an amended clearance?
While enroute, ATC will change your previously given clearance or flight
plan. It is up to you, while flying the aircraft, to dig out the enroute
charts, and identify the routine of the new clearance, so that you know how
to fly it.
Next time your up flying with friend in the right seat, put on a hood,
and fly the plane by reference to the instruments only. While doing this,
mark on your sectional the route of flight that you plan to fly. If you
haven't practiced this, you'll probably find that you are not able to fly the
aircraft and do the marking as well. This is why the FAA requires the 6
approached, 6 hrs of IFR or hood time, within the 6 month period. The first
thing an IFR pilot looses is the instrument scan. In an aircraft as sensitive
as the RV-6, this could be disasterous. The Centry I helps, but there is no
substitute for practice.
>I am planning on making my 6A IFR capable and have been tossing up the idea
>of a single axis autopilot to reduce workload. I would be very interested in
>your experience with the Century 1, cost, ease of installation, site you put
>it etc. I am just starting work inside the fuse so now might be the right
>time to put in the hardware.
Leo:
The Centry I is essentially a turn & bank indicator, and replaces the turn
coordinator I had in the panel. I think that the turn coordinator is a more
sensitive instrument, and is easier to use for partial panel operation, but
the Wing leveler is also just as important. The turn & bank also works well
for partial panel.
Hope this helps everybody......
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | meehan(at)coopext.cahe.wsu.edu (Don Meehan) |
| Subject: | VFR antenna location Question |
Have reached that point that we need to place the antennaes for the Com and
Transponder. Have an RV6A and plan to place both on the floor skin just
behind the cowl with leads coming up through floor forward of the overhead
rudder pedals.
One is planned on the right side and the other on the left.
Anyone have direct experience with this placement or thoughts about it?
Don Meehan - meehan(at)wsu.edu
Whidbey RV-ators
721 N. Palisades
Coupeville, WA 98239
( Fuselage - RV6A - moving on to Finish Kit.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rbusick(at)nmsu.edu (Robert Busick) |
| Subject: | Re: Stab Skin Trim |
>Just finished drilling and dimpling all of the holes on the stab of my 6A.
>One last thing to
>decide before riviting the skin down.... should I trim the skin flush at
>the root and cut the tip
>skins to the prescribed dimensions before I rivet or worry about it later?
>
>Thanks
>
>Paul Riedlinger
>paulried(at)interpath.com
>RV-6A stab almost done
Do it later, do not trim the tip until your ready to do the fiberglass. A
mistake at this point will ruin your whole day. You can always do it later
when you fully understand how it will all go together.
Bob Busick
RV-6
rbusick(at)nmsu.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stuart Fraley <swfraley(at)alpha.comsource.net> |
| Subject: | Chatter: Air Beetle |
Looking through the RV Calendar, I noticed the Nigerian Air Force Air
Beetles, which are modified 6As. The cowling looks somehow different and
the rudder looks to be mass balanced.
Does anybody know the details about the Air Beetle? Things like
engine/prop, etc.
Stuart Fraley
RV-6 elevators
swfraley(at)comsource.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: Spar riveting |
On Wed, 8 May 1996, Patrick Kelley wrote:
> As for rivet length, I found that I had no problem with tipping rivets, but
> was not able to get a good shop head on the longer rivets (too much mass to
> move?), so I've made sure they are all at 1.5d. Anyway, I had to cut rivets
> for the angle pieces. I am using the plier type and they do the job, but it
> is a struggle. Fortunately, I am a guitarist and have quite strong hands,
> but I think I'd rather have your tool. I just couldn't justify the cost for
> the few rivets I needed to cut. Number 3 and 4 rivets cut easily.
I have the plier type also, but I just rest it on my work bench and tap
the handle with a hammer. Works like a charm for 3/16 rivets.
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: Stab Skin Trim |
On Tue, 7 May 1996 paulried(at)Interpath.com wrote:
> Just finished drilling and dimpling all of the holes on the stab of my 6A. One
last thing to
> decide before riviting the skin down.... should I trim the skin flush at the
root and cut the tip
> skins to the prescribed dimensions before I rivet or worry about it later?
RV Building Rule #1: Never trim anything until you HAVE to.
RV Building Rule #2: Never rivet anything until you HAVE to.
These rules should be qualified somewhat. I don't trim until I'm
attaching the part that the trimmed piece fits against. I don't rivet
until I either run out of clecoes, or the clecoes get in the way of
fitting the next part.
Leave your HS skins untrimmed until it's time to fit the fiberglass tips.
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <tcraig-stearman(at)laugate1.lau.aetc.af.mil> (Tom Craig-Stearman) |
| Subject: | Re: New subscriber |
John,
Yes, indeed, I am stationed in the glorious garden spot of Laughlin AFB,
TX. I want out at the earliest possible moment. And my first class
airplane is costing me more than I anticipated, though I think it will be
worth it.
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
-------------
Original Text
From: John Darby <our-town.com!johnd(at)matronics.com>, on 7-5-96 9:50 PM:
Tom,
Welcome aboard. Sounds as if you're going first class.
Do I denote a little of Laughlin (Laff-in) in your address?
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: New subscriber |
>And now for the fun part. I am in the market for an engine. I am planning
>to buy a firewall forward Subaru package from Formula Power. 183 hp, 240
>pounds installed, less radiator and coolant, 0.42 lb/hp.hr BSFC. If anyone
>has experience, good or bad, with Subaru conversions, please tell me. I
>can't stand the idea of bolting on a 1930s era air-cooled four-banger that
>costs twenty grand!
I agree, but haven't seen anything concrete on the Subie. I'm on the mailing
list for all the Subaru makers, but still haven't seen anything that looks
promising. Have they flown the RV yet? It was supposed to fly 6 months ago.
Last time I talked to them they were talking 19K for the firewall forward
package. Is this still accurate? For that kind of $$ I'm still leaning
toward the Lyc.
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE) |
| Subject: | Re: Stab Skin Trim |
You wrote:
>
>Just finished drilling and dimpling all of the holes on the stab of my
6A. One last thing to
>decide before riviting the skin down.... should I trim the skin flush
at the root and cut the tip
>skins to the prescribed dimensions before I rivet or worry about it
later?
>
>Thanks
>
>Paul Riedlinger
>paulried(at)interpath.com
>RV-6A stab almost done
>
>
>
Paul,
don't trim any skins until your ready to finish and/or fit the needed
part to it. If you do it early, things may not fit as advertised!
Ed Cole RV6A 24430
ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
>
> Have you checked Bob Archer's offerings in tip mounted VOR antennas?
> He has a gamma-matched quarter wave antenna designed to mount on a
> tip rib and is properly shortened to allow for rib proximity
> Bob . . .
> AeroElectric Connection
>
>
How can I get more info on "Bob Archers offering"? Write ups. His address etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892
2300 Oakmont Way #205 Fax: 541-342-5492
Eugene, Oregon 97401 email: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB3CD0.B2537A60
Wesley, I think it's good practice to stick with the same primer =
thougout the project. If your search the archives, you'll find a wealth =
of information. This subject has probalby generated the more emails than =
any other.=20
Greg Bordelon=20
greg(at)brokersys.com
Houston Texas
----------
From: wesleyt[SMTP:twave.net!wesleyt(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 1996 7:26 PM
Subject: RV-List: PRIMER
I am ready to primer the wing ribs and rear spar and I was wondering =
what=20
type of primer to use.
I have been using the two part epoxy maetal primer from Aircraft Spruce=20
but I see that Glidden has a two part metal epoxy primer (dark brown).
Has anybody used any other types of epoxy primers?
Wesley T Robinson
wesleyt(at)twave.net
Finishing left wing (6A)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB3CD0.D8EB8B40
Marc, I have been thinking of this as well. How about making the lower =
half of the wheelpant a clamshell. Flaps down clamshell open, flaps up =
clamshell closed. Now lets see....how am I going to do this to the 6A =
nosepant????
Greg Bordelon=20
greg(at)brokersys.com
Houston Texas =20
----------
From: Marc LeFevre[SMTP:hpbs2412.boi.hp.com!marcl(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 1996 11:19 AM
Subject: RV-List: RV retracts?
It appears that it's time for a new topic on the list and I've
been pondering an idea even though I haven't even received my
RV-8 tail kit yet. The RVator compilation contains an article on
drag reduction in the area of wheel pants. The idea was to seal
the gaps between the pant and the wheel itself. What I was wondering
is why couldn't the wheel pant be hinged at the front so that it
could be lowered during flight to completely encase the wheel? Some
additional mechanism could be added to seal the wheel opening. I
have even envisioned an automatic system with a small airfoil on
the sides of the pant that in normal cruise would not lift the pant,
but when in ground effect (as in landing) would lift the pant so that
the wheel was exposed.
I know that there's probably more risk/safety problems than drag
reduction improvements, but it's still and interesting idea to
ponder.
Marc LeFevre
Waiting to start my first homebuilt (RV-8)
rv8(at)hpbs2412.boi.hp.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB3CD0.DC52D220
Hi Tom,=20
I've been there and done that. Dissasemble the the unit carefully. There =
are a couple of rubber gaskets on the front, these are seals. Once you =
have the housing off, spray all of the internals with ACF50 including =
the inlet/outlet ports. Soak it all over including the face of the =
horizon. Using your blow gun and air compressor blow air into the inlet =
CAREFULLY. Use your regulator and turn the pressure down. Hold the blow =
gun away from the inlet several inches and move it closer to get the =
gyro spinning. It's not difficult, just handle with care. With the gyro =
spinning, move it around you should see an improvement. If that corrects =
the problem, then blow off the excess ACF50 on the the entire assembly. =
Don't bother trying wipe the face of the horizon, the ACF50 will make to =
whole assembly look new again. Just reassemble it. Take this opportunity =
to thoroughly clean the glass. If you split or break the rubber face =
gaskets get replacements from a local avionics shop. If this doesn't =
work THEN send it off. Let us know how it turns out.
Greg Bordelon=20
greg(at)brokersys.com
Houston Texas=20
----------
From: Thomas N. Martin[SMTP:CompuServe.COM!103212.65(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 1996 3:10 PM
Subject: RV-List: DG problems
I just installed a used DG and it lags in steep turns and then never =
does catch
up. I suspect corrosion is the problem. Is there any way to introduce a
lubricant into the system. Has anybody tinkered with one of these =
things. It
might be fun, if it was practical, to repair it myself. Thanks in =
advance
Tom Martin
RV-4 120 hours
BTW I just installed the firewall and floor insulation kit from =
tennessee that
is advertised in Sport Aviation. It is a good kit and the first flight =
was
encouraging. the airplane seems more "solid"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
| Subject: | interior painting |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB3CD0.D5397FC0
Primers need to be protected from UV rays with a topcoat. There is =
nothing wrong with your idea......it may not last. The distributor and =
instructions for my primer recommend topcoating. Besides, if you topcoat =
it'll be much easier to cleanup any dirt, grease, oil etc.=20
Greg Bordelon=20
greg(at)brokersys.com
Houston Texas
----------
From: =
ix.netcom.com!rmickey(at)matronics.com[SMTP:ix.netcom.com!rmickey(at)matronics.=
com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 1996 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: interior painting
Gene, Dave, and Listers
I was planning on leaving my interior with just a coat of the Dupont =
Light
Grey Corlar two part primer. It seems extremly tough and I like the =
color.
Any problems with this?
Ross Mickey
>Dave and listers,
>
>I've been painting with Imron for years and really like the product and
>would like to add a few comments. Colvar (sp) is the primer he =
probably
>recommended. It is two part epoxy and very tenacious. It is not a =
sanding
>primer, so your prep work needs to be good before you spray it. One =
problem
>with the Imron for interior work is that it only comes in high gloss as =
near
>as I know. It will reflect a lot of sunlight. Another problem with =
Imron
>is that it's very toxic. At a minimum you will want a respirator and =
full
>suit to shoot it. I would also recommend a fresh air mask system as =
well.
>I have not used on yet, but I know how toxic Imron is and plan to when =
I
>paint my RV6a. I use a full suit and respirator just to spray =
Veriprime.
>About 15 years ago I had a bad experience so I do not take DuPont =
safety
>recommendations lightly. I saw a nice fresh air mask system at Sun & =
Fun
>this year that looks nice and costs about $500. If anyone wants =
additional
>information let me know, I picked up some cut sheets on it.
>
>-Gene
>geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov
>
>>On the subject of painting the cabin/baggage area:
>>
>>I've chosen Imron in a standard fleet grey color for this. When I was =
>>trying to decide what to use, I went to see the automotive paint =
supplier=20
>>whom I've been doing business with for a long time. I told him I =
wanted=20
>>something very scuff-resistant. We came to the conclusion that Imron=20
>>would be the best thing for the job.
>>
>>For best adhesion, DuPont recommends the following steps:
>>
>>Alimiprep
>>Alodine
>>Prime with Veriprime
>>Prime with an epoxy primer (I forget the dupont product's name)
>>Apply the Imron.
>>
>>Best Regards,
>>Dave Barnhart
>>rv-6 sn 23744
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I am using PPG DP40 with their DP401 catalyst - this is one of those
recommended by Van's. PPG also has a less porous primer system DP70/DP701.
The DP40/401 is a little nasty to breath so I got a positive flow mask set up
from Aircraft Spruce and plumbed the inlet thru an outside wall (using a
clothes dryer vent fitting and a screen to keep bugs and birds out) of my
shop so I get fresh air. I Alumaprep and Alodine first using PPG products as
well. One thing to consider when selecting is a local source of supply - I
found a nearby auto paint supply store that carries all of the products I'm
using. Also I made a trough (sp?) made from a section of plastic rain gutter
with snap on sealed ends to do the long skinny pieces. I also made a plywood
tub big enough to hold things like wing ribs etc. I put a sink drain fitting
in the bottom at one end and sized the tub to sit an the washer and dryer
with the drain over the laundry tub next to the washer. That way I can do the
cleaning and alumaprep then dry out the trough or tub and put enough alodine
in to cover the parts. You'll need lots of warm or hot running water to rinse
the parts between steps. I collected all of the instructions from the PPG
containers and made my own "process spec" to remind me how to do all of this.
A copy of the "spec" can be made available if anyone's interested but it is
for the PPG chemicals only.
Mike Talley
RV-6(A?)
miket(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
>Hi All,
>
>Anybody have any words of wisdom or special technique for making the dreaded
>*unique cone shaped bend* on the fuselage. If you do, I would sure like to
hear
>about it since I have had limited success so far, but haven't gotten to the
>point yet of *Oh no, now how am I going to fix that?*
>
>BStobbe
>RV-6
>skinning fuselage
>
>
Having just finished this, I will share some thoughts.
I used the technique described in the Manual on one side and a broom habdle
alla the elevators on the other. The one decribed in the manual is the
better of the two. Try to clamp the two "bending boards" along the line
which will line up with the otside aft edge of F623. This will ensure that
this part of the cone will be flat to lay on top of F623.
Before you start the bend, round file a notch at the point where the forward
edge of the side skin along the true bottom of the fuselage (top in the jig)
meets the part of the sideskin which angles up to make the cone. This
grove should be deep enough to travel above (below on jig) the bottom side
of F623. This grove relieve the stress put in this area due to the 90
degree bend which osccurs here. If you don't do this, a crack will develop
(it did on mine) and you will be stop drilling to keep the crack from
traveling. I plan on having a fairing cover this area anyway.
Hope this helps even though its probubly hard to follow.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892
2300 Oakmont Way #205 Fax: 541-342-5492
Eugene, Oregon 97401 email: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
RV>Phil, Rod, Greg, and RV Listers,
RV>This afternoon my RV8 empenage kit arrived ( how sweet it is!) and everythin
RV>is present and accounted for. The only problem was that the vertical
RV>stabilizer skin was bent at the top due to rough handling or improper
RV>packaging. I assume there's no problem just bending it back, but if there i
RV>maybe someone could tip me off.
Joel:
Great news! Congratulations. Phil sent a message that his kit arrived
yesterday.
RE: the bent part. I'd get a new one. You don't want to get started on the
wrong foot. Besides, you've already paid for it!
Keep me posted. I expect mine to arrive within the next couple of days!
Rod
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: VFR antenna location Question |
Don,
That location will work for the transponder, it's important to keep the ant.
wire for the transponder as short as posible. For the comm you may not be
pleased with that location, a comm ant is a ground plain unit it needs 21 "
of metal all the way around the ant. . On the side where you do not have this
distance you may find that you will have trouble picking up stations in that
direction, weather it be on the side or in the front. a good location for a
comm on the bottom is between the seat area. You have that 4 or 5"
area there where the trim cable and control tube is and is work well there,
lots of ground plain..If you have any other question please write or call
301-293-1505...George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Countersinking longerons |
I was talking with Tom at Vans yesterday about the infamous F677-F676 / F604
interface. I mentioned I was going to diple the skins and machine
countersink the F604. He strongly suggest I don't do this. He said the
discussions at Vans (which included Van) had lead to the firm recomendation
to dimple the belly pan and machine countersink through the F677-676/F604.
I did this last night. The F604 is barely countesunk and the F677-676 is
overcountersunk. I cleaned the backside of these with a grey scothbite
using my thumb.
Now for the question.
Tom mentioned that the above was not without precident. He refered to the
connection between the side skins and the turtledeck. He said the side
skins-longeron combination is machine countersunk and the turtledeck is
dimpled. This went right over my head until I got home. I have already
machine countersunk the longerons and dimpled the side skins. I haven't
gotten ahold of Tom yet today but I am nervous that I will ahve to replace
my longerons :( !! Where did I miss this in the plans?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892
2300 Oakmont Way #205 Fax: 541-342-5492
Eugene, Oregon 97401 email: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com |
| Subject: | Is this thing working... |
Am I the only one who is not getting the list anymore??
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: Is this thing working... |
>--------------
>Am I the only one who is not getting the list anymore??
>
>John
>--------------
Your address was probably causing excessive email bounces and had to be
removed from the List. If you feel that you connection has stabilized,
feel free to resubscribe to the List.
Matt Dralle
RV-List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: VFR antenna location Question |
>Have reached that point that we need to place the antennaes for the Com and
>Transponder. Have an RV6A and plan to place both on the floor skin just
>behind the cowl with leads coming up through floor forward of the overhead
>rudder pedals.
>One is planned on the right side and the other on the left.
>
>Anyone have direct experience with this placement or thoughts about it?
>
>Don Meehan - meehan(at)wsu.edu
>Whidbey RV-ators
>721 N. Palisades
>Coupeville, WA 98239
>( Fuselage - RV6A - moving on to Finish Kit.)
Don, On my RV-6. I mounted the transponder antenna on the forward belly
skin on the right side (in the area of the right fuel tank vent). I put a
bent wire comm antenna on the center line of the forward belly panel in the
area below the fuel selector valve. I mounted the transponder antenna where
I did so that it would not be downstream of the exhaust and because access
to the antenna and coax would not be behind the battery box. I mounted the
comm where I did so as to keep the antenna as far away as possible from the
transponder antenna. I also thought that, with the comm antenna located
where it is, that I could unplug the BNC connector for the panel mount radio
if it ever went on the blink and plug in a coax attached to a handheld. I
have not had any comments from ground stations that my communications or
transponder/altitude reporting weren't up to snuff. These locations sure
made routing of coax easy. Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New subscriber |
Just remember, Subaru promounced backwards is 'You are a bus'.
Chris
>
> >And now for the fun part. I am in the market for an engine. I am planning
> >to buy a firewall forward Subaru package from Formula Power. 183 hp, 240
> >pounds installed, less radiator and coolant, 0.42 lb/hp.hr BSFC. If anyone
> >has experience, good or bad, with Subaru conversions, please tell me. I
> >can't stand the idea of bolting on a 1930s era air-cooled four-banger that
> >costs twenty grand!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terryg(at)SceptreCal.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM |
| Subject: | interior painting |
Gene wrote...
"I saw a nice fresh air mask system at Sun & Fun this year that looks
nice and costs about $500."
Was this the Hobbyair system by any chance? If so, I can vouch for
the product. I've done a couple of sessions of priming with it, and
it works just great...all you can smell is a blast of cold, clean
air...no fumes whatsoever. I wear glasses, so I found the Tyvek hood
a good accessory as well. It inflates, and you look like a spaceman
and you can scare the heck out of the neighbours...or maybe you can
pretend you a virologist that works in a Level IV lab. Seriously,
though, the only problem was the first time I used it, I ran the hose
about 30 feet outside in -35 C. weather, and man, was the air COLD by
the time it got to me!! An excellent product, that I can highly
recommend, with the possible exception of the air hose, which is a
little stiff, particulary in cold (!) weather.
Cheers....
Terry in Calgary
S/N 24414
"VS Rear Spar Assembly"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: messed up left elevator stiffners... sigh... |
I know this thread has been just about beaten to death, but I just
thought of one more possibility. If you *really* wanted to use the
twice-dimpled stiffeners you could also bond them on with proseal
or something. That way you wouldn't have to worry as much about them
eventually coming loose if the dimples in the stiffeners cracked out.
I know this may seem like overkill to some people, but personally I
would want to fix it one way or another. I have experienced cracking
of reverse dimpled holes, and elevator flutter is too scary of a
possibility to take a chance on.
And while we're on the subject -- does anyone else besides me think
that "flutter" sure is an innocent sounding name for something that
can have such violent consequences?
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Several people now have recommended NO battery box at all,
especially if using a RG battery. Just to make sure I'm clear
on this, before I commit to NOT installing the box -- is there
ANY reason at all to even have a battery box, aside from
hold-down and wire/terminal protection, with the standard
in-cockpit RV installation, using an RG battery?
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: interior painting |
I have no stock in the company but I'd like to vouch for the Hobbyair. I
bought one and I'll never paint w/o it again.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Project Summary |
>... About as nice,
> friendly guy as I've ever done business with. Yet, the one thing that he
> caught, proved that he was thorough. (some thing I fixed in about 30 seconds).
> ...
>
> John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
> johnd@our-town.com
Aw, c'mon John, aren't you going to tell us what it was he found?
Randall Henderson
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
>Marc, I have been thinking of this as well. How about making the lower half
of the wheelpant a clamshell. Flaps down clamshell open, flaps up clamshell
closed. Now lets see....how am I going to do this to the 6A nosepant????
>
>
There was in fact a 4 that was fitted with retractable gear. I believe Dave
Lewis had something to do with it. I heard it wasn't worth all the effort as
an RV that is built with good fairings is already clean. Some of you Left Coast
guys have probably seen this creature. I have no idea where it ended up.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
REGARDING How about ca
Randal,
How about using catastrophic-regenerative-flutter. Either one will kill you
faster than you can say it!
-Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | COROTEC <70743.2727(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | countersinking longerons |
You wrote:
=I was talking with Tom at Vans yesterday about the infamous F677-F676 / F604
=interface. I mentioned I was going to diple the skins and machine countersink
the =F604. He strongly suggest I don't do this. He said the discussions at
Vans (which =included Van) had lead to the firm recomendation to dimple the
belly pan and =machine countersink through the F677-676/F604.
I also asked about this and got two different answers. Tom said to use -4
rivets in all places on the belly pan, including the floor stiffeners. He also
said to c-sink thru the F677-F676/F604 interface and dimple the belly pan, as
you did.
Then I talked to Bill and he said to only use -4 rivets on the F604 row and at
the firewall reinforcing angle - not on the floor stiffeners, the ss firewall
flange, or the o-lap joint aft of F604. He said to dimple all skins and c-sink
the F604 - exactly what they are now advising against doing.
IMHO, this type of thing is 90% of what makes this a/c difficult and
occasionally frustrating to build.
=Tom mentioned that the above was not without precident. He refered to the
=connection between the side skins and the turtledeck. He said the side
=skins-longeron combination is machine countersunk and the turtledeck is
dimpled. = This went right over my head until I got home. I have already
machine countersunk =the longerons and dimpled the side skins. I haven't gotten
ahold of Tom yet today =but I am nervous that I will ahve to replace my
longerons :( !! Where did I miss this =in the plans?
This might have something to do with the recommendation in the written
instructions which describes a 3 inch spacing between the rivets which initially
attach the side skins to the longerons. Later, when the top skins are added the
1 inch final spacing straddles these rivets.
Let me know what Van's says. I have already c-sunk the longerons at the engine
mounting brackets, intending to dimple the overlapping belly pan/side skin
joint. I don't want to think about replacing my longerons either!!!
BStobbe
RV-6
puttin' on the skins...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Arter <arter(at)acd.ucar.edu> |
Experimental 801PA, traffic 2 o'clock, 0 miles, north-bound, brown UPS
truck, altitude unknown.
Denver approach, CONTACT.
RV-8 empennage kit #80005 was received today in 2 boxes: 29 x 18 x 3-1/2",
50 lbs; and 53 x 33 x 6", 40 lbs. Shipping was $39.02 to Boulder, CO and
charged to my Visa card. Yes, I paid for it with plastic, and wouldn't you
like to know the number? .
Phil
arter(at)acd.ucar.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | flyboy(at)awpi.com (John D. Ritter) |
I'm considering purchasing a Delta 12" bandsaw that I saw today at Home
Depot. It's a two-wheeled floor model that runs at 2700 feet per minute.
There are metal-cutting blades available for non-ferrous metals (like
aluminum). I really liked it having just the two wheels. Any ideas on
whether this saw would be acceptable for building my RV?
John
Com/Multi/Inst/Airplane/Glider/CFI
flyboy(at)flyboy.com
http://www.flyboy.com/
*Toolin' Up*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: IFR experiences in RV-6A (fwd) |
snip>>>>
Without a stormscope (boy do I wish my RV-6A had a bigger panel!),
snip>>>>>
>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
>wstucklen(at)aol.com
Fred:
I have a Strikefinder in my 4 and with VERY careful planning I have
everything in my panel and center console I need. It's not as nice as radar
but it beats hell out of nothing. I also fly alot of IFR and I and second
the need for at least a wing leveler. I flew without the auto pilot at
first but was quick to learn the first time the wind shifted on approach and
they moved everybody to a new runway. It was fun changing approach plates
and flying the airplane while they vectored us all over the place.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | marc(at)ionet.net (marc) |
| Subject: | Looking for a finished RV-4 |
I know this might be TABOO but I am looking for an already built RV-4.
I have read youre mailing list for a couple of weeks now and seen nothing
about used completed RV-4s. If you know of any for sale please let me know by
E-mail as I realize that this topic is not exactly the mail list topic.
Thanks for youre help in advance and sorry for the intrusion.
__________________________________________________________
**********************************************************\
PGP 2.6.2 *82 50 FF 81 45 E8 75 FA* Marc Christensen FLY****\
Fingerprint*11 C2 12 9E A0 F9 31 1F* LT USNR NAVY****/
**********************************************************/
----my opinions are independent of the US Navy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelli Lewis/Michael Kosta <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy: screws vs rivets |
OK...here's some controversy: RV-4 canopy -> pop rivets or screws using the
supplied RivNuts. I've seen both, I think the screws LOOK better but Vans
no longer (I don't think) supplies the kits with the RivNuts. Lots of
problem potential with the screws: RivNuts getting loose on the tube; screws
not getting tight in the RivNuts; using Locktite on the screws and screwing
up the canopy, ETC. But there is more control when you're screwing in a
screw vs popping in a rivet. Almost makes poprivets sound like the best
option. Any opinions?
Michael Kosta RV-4 2860: `FLYBYJULY :>)
95% finished, 40% left to do: Canopy on, then wings, hook up ALL THAT STUFF
and FLY!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
<v01540b01adb66c63d3f2@[199.1.90.16]>
| From: | Jack Abell <abell(at)rand.org> |
I have such a bandsaw, and wouldn't be without it. I use it very
frequently. I highly recommend the purchase.
Jack Abell
RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: interior painting |
| From: | Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)indirect.com> |
Previously writtem:
>I saw a nice fresh air mask system at Sun & Fun
>this year that looks nice and costs about $500.
$500ios too much to pay for a fresh air respirator. Just paid $350 for a
Hobbyair 1 setup from:
Fastech Corp
24 Center Drive
Gilberts, IL 60136
1-800-HOBAIR-1
708-836-1633
Fax 708-836-1530
Mike Kukulski (kukulski(at)indirect.com)
RV-4 N96MK , fabricating wing root fairings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: RV retracts? |
Who is this haipilot and why do his bizarre trysts keep intruding on our list?
LD
>But I ain't never gonna forget your name so that can't be me.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Repitched Propellors |
| From: | Jack Abell <abell(at)rand.org> |
I was surprised to see that people still talk about repitching props. I
thought that the experimental aircraft community had experienced enough
tragedies from this practice that EVERYONE knew its possible, even likely,
consequences. A former colleague of mine was killed in his Thorpe T-18 in
December, 1990 when his repitched prop blade parted about 18 inches from
the tip and he crashed in the mountains at night. He didn't have a chance.
When I visited Van's pursuant to my decision about which aircraft to build,
Ken Scott told me that by then (10 months ago) six repitched propellors had
failed on RVs, every one resulting in at least serious damage to the
aircraft from the instant, awesome, devestating vibration that takes hold
of these little airplanes and just shakes the hell out of them. Often, the
pilot is incapable of reacting quickly enough stopcocking the engine to
avoid the damage to various parts of the aircraft. Elevators are fragile,
of course, but even the engine mounts are typically damaged beyond repair.
My only purpose in writing this electric love note to the RV List is to
urge all of you not to repitch a propellor. There is vast experience in
the community with this issue, and the experience is compelling. If you
have already done so, I strongly recommend, in the interest of your life,
to replace it before it kills you.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
The technique on the Orndorff videos worked well for me but it is an
iterative process to quote FKJ. Have a little bend put it back on, have a
little bend etc. After each reapplication of wood and clamps put only a
little english before moving out a lick. Too much will give you series of
noticable bends instead of a smooth curve. (But only the Wombats* will notice)
Leo Davies
6A
*Wombat: ground dwelling Australian marsupial.
>Hi All,
>
>Anybody have any words of wisdom or special technique for making the dreaded
>*unique cone shaped bend* on the fuselage. If you do, I would sure like to
hear
>about it since I have had limited success so far, but haven't gotten to the
>point yet of *Oh no, now how am I going to fix that?*
>
>BStobbe
>RV-6
>skinning fuselage
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | interior painting |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB3D1F.639C78A0
Richard,
The only problem with your idea is that the hose between the first stage =
(On tank) and second stage (In mouth) is charged with 120 to 140 psi of =
air pressure. This pressure is required to make the second stage breath =
easily.
(without getting into a lot of detail). Also your lungs are only capable =
of drawing air through about four feet of 1" hose. You will need to have =
valves at the end of your hose and make sure you exhaust very near your =
mouth so that fresh air is always getting into your lungs and you are =
not exhausting air back up the hose.
you might be able to use the little fan if you don't mind the air =
pressure always being on you. Either in your mouth or on your face. Why =
reinvent SCUBA with low pressure? It's not as easy as it looks. Al =
prober(at)iwaynet.net=20
P.S. By the way.... I think you have a great sign-off ----- Yakko Wakko =
& Dot
----------
From: Richard Chandler[SMTP:Claris.COM!mauser(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 1996 12:57 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: interior painting
Why bother with the tank? Just use a regulator and a really long hose =
leading=20
outside. The airflow will always be into the tube, and out through the=20
regulator. In fact, I was thinking about using this surplus Isreali gas =
mask=20
I've got with a long hose attached to the inlet when I get to painting =
(oh,=20
maybe five years from now.) Heck, I could put a muffin fan at the end =
of the=20
hose and have a positive pressure system.
Built in eye protection too. Lousy peripheral vision though.
Just make sure the end of the hose is as far as possible from your =
exhaust=20
fan. That goes without saying.
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
>Anybody have any words of wisdom or special technique for making the dreaded
>*unique cone shaped bend* on the fuselage. If you do, I would sure like to
>hear
>about it since I have had limited success so far, but haven't gotten to the
>point yet of *Oh no, now how am I going to fix that?*
I found the main thing was to insure that you have the interior part of the
bend (the edge that gets the small radius) relieved with a 3/8" or so radius
before you start bending. That area where it meets the skin gets bent pretty
severely and will start to crack if you don't.
As for bending it, get an idea of how it needs to be bent while the skin is
on the fuse and make some pen marks to help out. Then remove it and clamp
the edge to a 2X4 for leverage and form the bend by hand. I don't reccomend
clamping a board to the skin itself like in the Orndorff video (one of the
very few things I didn't agree with) because you'll end up with creases in
the skin. You can use your hands to form a perfect curve.
Do a little at a time and put it back on the fuse to check your progress. It
takes some time to do it right, but I ended up with a beautiful fit.
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terryg(at)SceptreCal.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Stab Skin Trim |
Paul -- last night, I removed the HS from the jig (finally!), and here's the
procedure that I used for getting the tip trim just right (at least hopefully!);
1) The root on the skin didn't need a whole lot of trimming. I guess I was just
lucky in the sense that with the skin positioned so that the overhang at the
trailing edge was correct, the roots were just about right. However, I did
leave the overhang a little long (maybe a 1/16") so that it can be trimmed a
little bit more once the elevators are complete. If I have to do this, they'll
be no problem deburring the trailing edge after final filing.
2) The tips needed considerable trimming. With the skin firmly clamped to the
skeleton, I marked the rough trim length. In my case, I used a plumb (adj.)
line (set with a carpenter's level) to mark the skin. I was tempted to mark it
flush with the rib -- at least the part of the tip that IS flush with the rib --
until I discovered that my tip ribs were "toed in" by maybe a 1/16". While
still being able to respect the edge distances of the underlying flange, I
figured it would look better if the tip and the rivet line were parallel to the
centerline of the aircraft.
3) With the skin removed from the skeleton, I rough trimmed the skin with a die
grinder and a cut off wheel. I left considerable excess for final filing.
4) With the skin back on the skeleton, I filed the part of the skin that is
flush with the tip rib to its final dimension, again, checking that the trim was
plumb...in my case, not precisly flush with the underlying tip rib (out by maybe
1/32"). I did this before riveting so that I could eventually deburr the skin
off the skeleton.
5) I left the trim that will eventually be used to attach the fibreglass tip
untouched. That was probably best, because the bolt that secures the tip rib
makes it kind of awkward to file anyway. This part you can deburr after
riveting, no problem, as you have an extra 1/2" of skin to play with.
6) At this point, I made final preps to rivet the skin on, including deburring
all the edges etc., all with the skin off the skeleton.
7) With the skin riveting complete, I removed the bolts from the tip ribs. At
this point, I finished filing the forward part of the skin at the tip, that is,
BEFORE I removed the HS from the jig -- this way, I still know the precise
orientation of the HS, and I was able to use my handy carpenter's level to get
the forward part of the tip exactly parallel with aft part.
Those of you playing along at home, now know why I've got 275 hours in my HS
alone!!! It's not the fastest method, I know, but I was confident in the
result. Hope this helps...
Terry in Calgary
S/N 24414
"Vertical Stabilizer Rear Spar Assembly"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Haan <bobh(at)synopsys.com> |
| Subject: | Re: interior painting |
>I have no stock in the company but I'd like to vouch for the Hobbyair. I
>bought one and I'll never paint w/o it again.
>
>Dan Boudro
>RV-4 N9167Z
>Albuquerque, NM
>dboudro(at)nmia.com
Please describe the Hobbyair and why you like it.
Thanks
Bob Haan
Portland, OR
RV6-A both wings in the jigs, LEs & Top Skins Riveted on, working on tanks
bobh(at)synopsys.com
Evenings 503-636-3550
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino) |
I'm still waiting. Is it shipped UPS? I thought it was common carrier.
>Experimental 801PA, traffic 2 o'clock, 0 miles, north-bound, brown UPS
>truck, altitude unknown.
>
>Denver approach, CONTACT.
>
>RV-8 empennage kit #80005 was received today in 2 boxes: 29 x 18 x 3-1/2",
>50 lbs; and 53 x 33 x 6", 40 lbs. Shipping was $39.02 to Boulder, CO and
>charged to my Visa card. Yes, I paid for it with plastic, and wouldn't you
>like to know the number? .
>
>Phil
>arter(at)acd.ucar.edu
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino) |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for a finished RV-4 |
I know of an RV-4 with just over 100 hrs on airframe and new 160 engine.
The plain was the second built by an EAA technical advisor who also owns a
sheet metal shop. The man knows airplanes. He is asking 50K. If your
interested, let me know and I will give you his phone number.
> I know this might be TABOO but I am looking for an already built RV-4.
>I have read youre mailing list for a couple of weeks now and seen nothing
>about used completed RV-4s. If you know of any for sale please let me know=
by
>E-mail as I realize that this topic is not exactly the mail list topic.
>
>Thanks for youre help in advance and sorry for the intrusion.
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________________
>**********************************************************\
>PGP 2.6.2 *82 50 FF 81 45 E8 75 FA* Marc Christensen=A0 FLY=A0****\
>Fingerprint*11 C2 12 9E A0 F9 31 1F* LT USNR=A0 NAVY****/
>**********************************************************/
>----my opinions are independent of the US Navy
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Chatter: Air Beetle |
| From: | haipilot(at)usa.pipeline.com (Hai Pilot) |
Ask Dave Lewis, located near Van's. I believe he and his brother were very
involved on the project of building them.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
I'm working on fitting the canopy on a 6A (slider) and on the page marked
"plexiglass hints" in the construction manual it says to "be sure to make the
holes (in the plexiglass) 1/8" oversize to allow for motion caused by thermal
expansion and contraction."
Is this right? Most of the holes in the canopy are only 1/8" to begin with.
Am I supposed to drill them out to 1/4"?
I can see drilling them 1/64 over or possibly 1/32, but 1/8?
Thanks,
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
On Wed, 8 May 1996, John D. Ritter wrote:
> I'm considering purchasing a Delta 12" bandsaw that I saw today at Home
> Depot. It's a two-wheeled floor model that runs at 2700 feet per minute.
> There are metal-cutting blades available for non-ferrous metals (like
> aluminum). I really liked it having just the two wheels. Any ideas on
> whether this saw would be acceptable for building my RV?
> John
I use the smaller, bench top (8 inch?) Delta bandsaw and it is perfectly
adequate. Cuts do require a bit of clean up with the scotch-brite
grinding wheel. I have been using the standard wood-cutting blades and
they go through the aluminum easily. It did take a few blades to taper
all my wing spar flange strips, but I understand these are now done for
you by the factory.
regards,
Curt Reimer
fuselage skeleton almost done
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mel Barlow (IJD, Ct.)" <102636.54(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | RV-4 Canopy-Rivets or screws?? |
On 5/8/96, K.Lewis\M.Kosta asked for opinions on using blind rivets vs Rivnuts
&
screws for securing the canopy to the frame.
Here's my $.02: My RV-4 has blind rivets. I forget the designation, but they are
the ones supplied by Van's for the purpose at the time ('86 or '87??). My RV is
tied down outside, and has been since '88, except for about 6 months of its
life. Always had a cover over the canopy, (polyester boat cover cloth, works
well). I have a couple of spots in the canopy where a little crazing has shown
up at the rivet locations. Otherwise, no cracks. I suspect the crazing is from
not making the holes in the plastic quite oversized enough. Don't know what the
problems might be with screws, but I would bet I would overtighten at least one.
The rivets are very well controlled in tightness as they are drawn up.
I like the rivets.
BTW, I used silicone RTV for sealing. Be sure to make the holes in the plastic
oversized either way. Hope this helps. Mel Barlow, N114RV, IJD,
102636.54(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
I just followed the directions and overbent it a bit and then used a body
hammer and dolly to stretch the aft edge so that it fit the rear fuselage
contour exactly. It fit perfectly and looks much better that just leaving it
flat like it ends up after bending it.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
I just heard about this rv-list. It's great. I am planning to start
building an RV-8 within the next three months. I am an X-Marine Cobra Pilot
with a degree in Aerospace Engineering. I am currently working as an sales
engineer for a large chemical comapny. I am planning to build my RV in a
20X20 open area. About half of the floor space is covered by a carport type
structure. I don't have a garage. Has anybody outhere built an RV or
building one in an open area. Ofcourse I live in Southern California. Any
pointers would be appreciated.
Tony Moradian
Funtfly(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stan Blanton <75472.372(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: VOR problems |
Re: VOR Problems
Bob Nucholls may have forgotten but his book has a detailed diagram of an
interior mount VOR antenna that looks exactly like the one that is avaiable from
Bob Archer. I can't imagine the materials would be but a few dollars.
If you prefer the piece of mind of having an antenna already fabricated the
address I have for him is:
Bob Archer
Sportcraft Antennas
21818 Ocean Ave.
Torrance, CA 90503
Ph. 310-316-8796
Stan Blanton
75472.372(at)compuserve.com
RV-6 fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DTan522893(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Chatter: Air Beetle |
UNSUBSRIBE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
>Several people now have recommended NO battery box at all,
>especially if using a RG battery. Just to make sure I'm clear
>on this, before I commit to NOT installing the box -- is there
>ANY reason at all to even have a battery box, aside from
>hold-down and wire/terminal protection, with the standard
>in-cockpit RV installation, using an RG battery?
>
>Randall Henderson
>RV-6
Randall, I still like the idea of the box. Hold down and terminal
protection are important. With the box, a broader contact area can be
spread across the top of the battery for the hold down function as opposed
to other methods of clamping the battery down. How much does the battery
weigh under 5-6 G's, 120-140 lbs.? I think the terminals should be covered,
battery box or no. I think a painted battery box would look cleaner than
just a battery. Also, the box could be used to mount the battery contactor
in order to keep this wire length to a minimum. Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bill garrett <bgarrett(at)fast.net> |
Dan wrote-
>I have no stock in the company but I'd like to vouch for the Hobbyair. I
>bought one and I'll never paint w/o it again.
>
>Dan Boudro
>RV-4 N9167Z
>Albuquerque, NM
>dboudro(at)nmia.com
I didn't feel I had $500 to spend on a Hobbyair or similar system so I used
an idea I saw in Kitplanes a few years ago. Took my shop vac, a $7 sump
pump flexible hose (15 feet - could couple two together if you want more
distance), fashioned a hood from a large laundry bag and some clear plastic
and have all the fresh air I can breathe when I paint. I set the shop vac
upwind of any breeze, run the hose up my back and under the hood (tied
around my chest and waist) and have never detected the least odor of
Variprime. I'm sure the Hobbyair is great and more convenient if you don't
mind the cost, but anyone trying to minimize expenses while building your RV
might want to consider this type of system, especially if you have a shop
vac. I don't think it compromises my safety at all, just a little more work
to "create" originally and a little more bothersome to set up to use. If
anyone wants more details, let me know.
Bill
/```|`\
/| _ _ _ _ / | \
|| ,* | ````~~.._ _ / | \
|| _ _,*_ _ _|_ _ _ _ _ / ```~~~..._/ | \
_||_.~`````` Bill Garrett <::::::::> \
<_ _| RV-6A Pottstown, PA N153BG | /
|| \ ..~~~~~~~......_ _ _ _ _.|.~~``
|| `~._ '.....................> _ _...~~~~`````
|| `//`````````````\\``````````
\| // \\
_//_ _\\_
( _`: ( _`:
````` `````
Husband and Father
Mathematics Teacher
Airplane Builder - working on the wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking longerons |
I think you'll be just fine with what you've done- dimple side skins into c/s
longerons, with turtle deck dimpled into that.
Why aren't 1/8" NAS 1097 rivets used at the 604 etc joint- they could be
machined into the fwd bottom skin without worry, and no machining would reach
the 604? The head would be the same as the presently reccomended #3 rivets.
Rgds
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: IFR in an RV-6 |
Just a note on operation in the rain. At normal or slightly reduced cruise
speeds, I have not noticed anything strang about the flying charactoristics
of my RV-6A.
On the subject of ICE. I have had only one situation where I got surprised
with ice, and that was on departure from my home base of 7B6 (Skylark Ct)
enroute to Sun 'N Fun. Five minutes after departing, while climbing IFR at
about 3000', the plane iced up so bad that I couldn't see out of any part of
the canopy. While this was not forcast, nor reported by anybody else to ATC,
A pilot report, less than a minute old, indicated that a climb to 6000' would
result in +2 degree C. It was either a climb, or immeadiate right turn to the
ILS 33 at Bradley (very close by), with a possible blind landing if the ice
didn't melt fast enough in the warmer air near the ground. With ATC
vacilating on where to let me go, I stated that I was declaring an emergency
in the next ten seconds if they didn't give me an immeadiate clearance. They
choose to let me climb (which is what I perferred).
I can't say accurately how much Ice was actually on the plane (because I
couldn't see out the canopy), but, at full gross, we climbed into the warmer
air with what appeared to be very little climb performance loss.
This type of condition gets your attention REAL FAST. Carb and pito heat
were turned on IMMEADIAELY! No other problems were encountered.
So lets all be careful up there..........
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
>Fred:
>
>Thanks for your postings on flying your RV in IFR. I was especially
>interested in your comments about flying in the rain. Some time
>ago I posted a message trying to get some information on RV-6
>performance with wing contamination, but not much was forthcoming.
>I don't recall if you replied then or not. Most of the discussion
>was about icing, and either no one had any experience, or no one
>wanted to admit to it!
>
>Anyway, this kind of real-world information is very useful. Although
>I would probably build an RV-6 even if there wasn't some IFR
>experience with the design already out there, IFR capability is
>important to me, so it's good to know that you've had success with it.
>
>Tedd McHenry
>Edmonton, Canada
>[RV-6 plans only--still building workshop]
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: interior painting |
The Hobbyair is basically a vacuum cleaner motor mounted on a nice platform.
You place it away from your work area (in fresh air) and run a 3/4" tube
from it to yourself. This connects to a mask that covers your nose and
mouth. Fresh air under positive pressure is blown in by the motor. I also
wear the optional hood, this covers your head and shoulders, I wear glasses
and they stay clean this way. With the air blowing the whole thing inflates
and is not in the way (you wear the same 'gas mask' underneath). There is
ZERO fumes while painting, you cannot smell anything but fresh air. I even
use it while I clean my gun with MEK after painting. IMHO, this is the
safest and most comfortable way to spray automobile paint (or any other
paint). Hope this helps.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
On Wed, 8 May 1996, Bob Haan wrote:
>
> Please describe the Hobbyair and why you like it.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Bob Haan
> Portland, OR
> RV6-A both wings in the jigs, LEs & Top Skins Riveted on, working on tanks
> bobh(at)synopsys.com
> Evenings 503-636-3550
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
I shaped it by hand and drilled it in place while keeping presure on the
bend. It sounds crude but it worked (how many times have we that while
building our RV's!). If you have shaped the skin as per plans it should work
out just fine.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <lewis(at)artery.cmet.af.mil> |
>I'm working on fitting the canopy on a 6A (slider) and on the page marked
>"plexiglass hints" in the construction manual it says to "be sure to
>make the holes (in the plexiglass) 1/8" oversize to allow for motion
>caused by thermal expansion and contraction."
>Is this right? Most of the holes in the canopy are only 1/8" to begin with.
> Am I supposed to drill them out to 1/4"?
>I can see drilling them 1/64 over or possibly 1/32, but 1/8?
Perhaps this will help...
>From The Sport Plane Builder (Tony Bengelis), page 195: "In any
windshield installation you should take into account the fact that the
plexiglass very definitely will expand and contract with temperature
changes, and it will be subjected to deflections under wind loads. A
24-inch square sheet of 1/8-inch plexiglass will expand and contract by
about 1/8-inch through a 100 degree F temperature range. It is,
therefore, important that any fastening system used for your windshield
be capable of permitting some movement to take place..."
Tim Lewis
Lurker, RV builder wannabe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking longerons |
IMHO, I think you'll be ok, it it was my AC i'd leave it, you would probably
cause more problems for your AC trying to replace the longerons. Please, let
us know what Tom says!
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
On Wed, 8 May 1996 ix.netcom.com!rmickey(at)matronics.com wrote:
*** snip ***
> machine countersunk the longerons and dimpled the side skins. I haven't
> gotten ahold of Tom yet today but I am nervous that I will ahve to replace
> my longerons :( !! Where did I miss this in the plans?
>
> Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892
> 2300 Oakmont Way #205 Fax: 541-342-5492
> Eugene, Oregon 97401 email: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Goodin <71201.1375(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Can I use My RV-4 empenagge to build a RV-8 or are they different?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Arter <arter(at)acd.ucar.edu> |
>I'm still waiting. Is it shipped UPS? I thought it was common carrier.
>
Jim, hi
The empennage kit is shipped UPS because it is small enough, the rest ship
common carier.
Phil
arter(at)acd.ucar.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking longerons |
On Thu, 9 May 1996 Mlfred(at)aol.com wrote:
> I think you'll be just fine with what you've done- dimple side skins into c/s
> longerons, with turtle deck dimpled into that.
Maybe, maybe not. I'd do what Van's says. "Good Enough" is NO way to
build the primary structure of an airplane.
> Why aren't 1/8" NAS 1097 rivets used at the 604 etc joint- they could be
> machined into the fwd bottom skin without worry, and no machining would reach
> the 604? The head would be the same as the presently reccomended #3 rivets.
AS 1097 are NOT intended to be used as a structural rivet. They do NOT
have the same pull-through strength as either #3 or #4 rivets. The head
diameter might be the same as as a #3 rivet, but the *area* of the head
that actually holds the rivet is much smaller in a 1097 than a regular #3.
Frankly, I am just about ready to countersink my longerons and probably
would have made the same mistake if it weren't for this list. Is it
standard practice with riveting multiple sheets together to only dimple
the outer sheet and then countersink through the remaining laminations?
It sounds like that is the practice Van's is specifying.
Regards,
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sheinlein(at)VNET.IBM.COM |
| Subject: | Thanks for elevator stiffner mistake responses! |
Just wanted to say 'Thanks' for the DOZEN responses I got on this!
It seems that the general concensus is that it's probably ok to
carefully re-dimple the stiffners, but that it's better to just
spend the extra time now and re-make them from scratch.
I think that's what I'll do... maybe I'll hang the old ones on the
wall as a reminder to be more careful in the future!
Besides, I think I have the perfect solution. I'm building this RV
with my Dad and he felt so bad for me when I told him what I did
that he offered to give me a hand re-making them! I guess I
can't really refuse such a generous offer, right? The cost of the
new aluminum is negligable...
So, thanks to everyone for their help! There were some very creative
responses (like drilling/dimpling the OTHER side of the stiffners
and labeling the extra holes as lightening holes! I think I might
just do that for the 7 short stiffners, since they don't have the taper.)
Boy, this list is great!!!
Stephen Heinlein (RV-6/6A... don't know yet!)
sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stab Skin Trim |
On Tue, 7 May 1996 paulried(at)Interpath.com wrote:
> Just finished drilling and dimpling all of the holes on the stab of my 6A. One
last thing to
> decide before riviting the skin down.... should I trim the skin flush at the
root and cut the tip
> skins to the prescribed dimensions before I rivet or worry about it later?
Trim the skins at the root now (After you've riveted the skins down,
you'll never be able to trim the root ends without nicking the HS-610 and
611.
Don't trim the HS skins at the tip untill you are ready to mount the
elevators. When you trim the tips, you are setting two things:
1. the gap between the hs tip and the elevator counterbalance. You'll
want to trim the skin at the time of elevator mounting so that this gap
is the correct width and is even.
2. the matching up of the HS tip fiberglass cap and the elevator
fiberglass cap. In order to get the outboard ends of these two caps to
match up and be even with each other, you must *carefully* trim the front
portion of the HS tip skin a little at a time with the elevator mounted.
And here's another tip (no pun intended):
Mount the elevators hinge rod ends in the elevator spar *before*
attaching the tip rib to the spar. That way you can hold the elevator
spar right up next to the HS rear spar and get the lateral position of
the rod ends exactly right.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: IFR experiences in RV-6A (fwd) |
>Fred:
>I have a Strikefinder in my 4 and with VERY careful planning I have
>everything in my panel and center console I need. It's not as nice as radar
>but it beats hell out of nothing. I also fly alot of IFR and I and second
>the need for at least a wing leveler. I flew without the auto pilot at
>first but was quick to learn the first time the wind shifted on approach and
>they moved everybody to a new runway. It was fun changing approach plates
>and flying the airplane while they vectored us all over the place.
>
>Regards:
>Rusty Gossard
>N47RG RV-4 Flying
>
>
>
Ditto on all of the above. But even after careful planning, no room for the
stormscope. I installed the stock panel size, but now would put in one that
is at least 2.5" - 3" lower as I don't need it for my legs. This would allow
for three 3.125" gages high on the panel, and would definately result in the
room needed for more toys!
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <tcraig-stearman(at)laugate1.lau.aetc.af.mil> (Tom Craig-Stearman) |
| Subject: | Formula Power Subaru |
Ed:
Are you talking about the Formula Power package, or another manufacturer?
I actually don't know what retail price Formula is planning to ask. I am
working a special deal as the first RV-4 to use their package. No, it
hasn't flown yet, because I am the guy who is supposed to fly it. Their
estimated completion time is sometime in July or August. That sounds about
right for my project.
The engine itself costs about $11,000, but I don't know what the
firewall-forward package will cost. It is quite reasonable to go with the
proven Lycoming engine; I can't fault you for that. The cost-benefit
analysis for me leans toward the Subaru.
Good luck,
Tom Craig-Stearman
-------------
Original Text
From: aol.com!EBundy2620(at)matronics.com, on 8-5-96 11:25 AM:
>And now for the fun part. I am in the market for an engine. I am
planning
>to buy a firewall forward Subaru package from Formula Power. 183 hp, 240
>pounds installed, less radiator and coolant, 0.42 lb/hp.hr BSFC. If
anyone
>has experience, good or bad, with Subaru conversions, please tell me. I
>can't stand the idea of bolting on a 1930s era air-cooled four-banger that
>costs twenty grand!
I agree, but haven't seen anything concrete on the Subie. I'm on the
mailing
list for all the Subaru makers, but still haven't seen anything that looks
promising. Have they flown the RV yet? It was supposed to fly 6 months
ago.
Last time I talked to them they were talking 19K for the firewall forward
package. Is this still accurate? For that kind of $$ I'm still leaning
toward the Lyc.
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy: screws vs rivets |
Well, there is a third alternative.
Put a bolt all the way thru and use the thin stop nuts on the inside.
That is what I did. I used the thin stainless elastic stop nuts on the inside
and stainless 100degree CS bolts (probably # 6).
I did this so I could control how much pressure I put on the canopy.
The only area to watch is around the rear by the turtle deck as the nuts can
rub on the fuselage skin if not positioned properly.
I dislike rivnuts as they take a large hole and they can strip out and then
you have a mess.
The pop rivits are probably OK and I would use them before the rivnuts.
Herman RV4 (flying 26 hrs)
> OK...here's some controversy: RV-4 canopy -> pop rivets or screws using the
> supplied RivNuts. I've seen both, I think the screws LOOK better but Vans
> no longer (I don't think) supplies the kits with the RivNuts. Lots of
> problem potential with the screws: RivNuts getting loose on the tube; screws
> not getting tight in the RivNuts; using Locktite on the screws and screwing
> up the canopy, ETC. But there is more control when you're screwing in a
> screw vs popping in a rivet. Almost makes poprivets sound like the best
> option. Any opinions?
>
> Michael Kosta RV-4 2860: `FLYBYJULY :>)
> 95% finished, 40% left to do: Canopy on, then wings, hook up ALL THAT STUFF
> and FLY!!!
>
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
McGuivers' got nothing on you Bill, a true homebuilder.
Eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reply Separator <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I didn't feel I had $500 to spend on a Hobbyair or similar system so I used
an idea I saw in Kitplanes a few years ago. Took my shop vac, a $7 sump
pump flexible hose (15 feet - could couple two together if you want more
distance), fashioned a hood from a large laundry bag and some clear plastic
and have all the fresh air I can breathe when I paint. I set the shop vac
upwind of any breeze, run the hose up my back and under the hood (tied
around my chest and waist) and have never detected the least odor of
Variprime. I'm sure the Hobbyair is great and more convenient if you don't
mind the cost, but anyone trying to minimize expenses while building your RV
might want to consider this type of system, especially if you have a shop
vac. I don't think it compromises my safety at all, just a little more work
to "create" originally and a little more bothersome to set up to use. If
anyone wants more details, let me know.
Bill
/```|`\
/| _ _ _ _ / | \
|| ,* | ````~~.._ _ / | \
|| _ _,*_ _ _|_ _ _ _ _ / ```~~~..._/ | \
_||_.~`````` Bill Garrett <::::::::> \
<_ _| RV-6A Pottstown, PA N153BG | /
|| \ ..~~~~~~~......_ _ _ _ _.|.~~``
|| `~._ '.....................> _ _...~~~~`````
|| `//`````````````\\``````````
\| // \\
_//_ _\\_
( _`: ( _`:
````` `````
Husband and Father
Mathematics Teacher
Airplane Builder - working on the wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Repitched Propellors |
Please, it is not the 'repitching' of the prop that is the problem!!
It is the fact that they cut the length of the prop down to 69 or 70 inches
(vs the 74 inches if the certified prop).
The shortened prop will fail even without repitching and they all fail
around 18 inches from the tip.
The problem here is the harmonics in the prop caused by the engine power pulses.
Certified props are designed to have the cruse RPM be in safe limits so that
the destructive nodes of the harmonics are outside the normal RPM range.
Shorting the prop can pull the node that is just above the 2700 RPM redline
down into the normal cruse range and that is what will cause the failure.
Repitching can also be a problem. There was an article in the IAC Sport Aerobatics
some yrs pack that quoted Sensenich as saying you should not repitch
more than 8 inches cumulative. If you put in 2 more inches of pitch and
then take out 1 inch of pitch, that is a sum of 3 inchs of pitch.
Some of the modified props are 'twisted' quite a bit to add more pitch.
Metal has memory and repitching fatigues the metal. You know what happens
to a piece of wire after you bend it back and forth several times. It breaks.
The way the RV's have been flying with the cut down metal props is that
they are both cut shorter and they are 'thinned' (the chord is shortened).
If you don't thin the prop, it will fail very quickly.
Even if properly done, it is still playing russian roulett.
The certified Sensensich is cheap compared to the alternatives (badly dammaged
aircraft and/or death).
Herman
>
> I was surprised to see that people still talk about repitching props. I
> thought that the experimental aircraft community had experienced enough
> tragedies from this practice that EVERYONE knew its possible, even likely,
> consequences. A former colleague of mine was killed in his Thorpe T-18 in
> December, 1990 when his repitched prop blade parted about 18 inches from
> the tip and he crashed in the mountains at night. He didn't have a chance.
>
> When I visited Van's pursuant to my decision about which aircraft to build,
> Ken Scott told me that by then (10 months ago) six repitched propellors had
> failed on RVs, every one resulting in at least serious damage to the
> aircraft from the instant, awesome, devestating vibration that takes hold
> of these little airplanes and just shakes the hell out of them. Often, the
> pilot is incapable of reacting quickly enough stopcocking the engine to
> avoid the damage to various parts of the aircraft. Elevators are fragile,
> of course, but even the engine mounts are typically damaged beyond repair.
>
> My only purpose in writing this electric love note to the RV List is to
> urge all of you not to repitch a propellor. There is vast experience in
> the community with this issue, and the experience is compelling. If you
> have already done so, I strongly recommend, in the interest of your life,
> to replace it before it kills you.
>
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Q: Fred Stucklen's icing encounter |
| From: | "Earl Brabandt" <cwbraban(at)ichips.intel.com> |
Fred relates:
> about 3000', the plane iced up so bad that I couldn't see out of any part of
> the canopy. While this was not forcast, nor reported by anybody else to ATC,
> A pilot report, less than a minute old, indicated that a climb to 6000' would
> result in +2 degree C.
Fred, I've never had the side windows or sides of a canopy ice up.
You didn't indicate if this was feezing rain. The warmer air above
and the rapidity of buildup seems to indicate that it may have been.
If you encountered freezing rain, you were able to dodge it using
the classic climb to warmer air technique that sometimes requires
more performance than a light aircraft can deliver. Thanks to
a good performing aircraft, it worked for you.
Was it freezing rain or "just" moderate to severe clear, rime, or
mixed icing that you encountered? Is there something about the airflow
over the RV-6 canopy that makes it likely to collect ice on the sides?
Thanks for the information!
Cal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ward9(at)llnl.gov (Rich Ward) |
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking longerons |
>> I think you'll be just fine with what you've done- dimple side skins into c/s
>> longerons, with turtle deck dimpled into that.
>Maybe, maybe not. I'd do what Van's says. "Good Enough" is NO way to
>build the primary structure of an airplane.
Well this is interesting...
When I did my RV4's side skins and turtle deck I don't recall the
instructions giving explicit directions one way or the other. I do recall
the instructions in front saying that if you don't violate the thrickness
criteria you can countersink. I countersunk my 1/8" longerons and dimpled
my side skins and turtle deck.
So is my RV4 now an un-airworthy piece of junk?
If so, I am going to punt and go find a new hobby... and be glad I haven't
bought an engine yet and that I am only out $10k.
-- Rich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | COROTEC <70743.2727(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Chatter Repitched Propellors |
= Certified props are designed to have the cruse RPM be in safe limits so that
= the destructive nodes of the harmonics are outside the normal RPM range.
I seem to recall flying some Cherokees (Warrior?) with a red band on the tach
right in the middle of the cruise range; 2100-2300 rpm, or so. I think the POH
stated that prolonged ops in this range were to be avoided - was this an engine
consideration or a prop consideration, or both? If it was to protect the prop
from destructive harmonics, could the same be done for repitched props once the
dangerous condition was identified?
BStobbe
RV-6
still upside down
(fuselage in the jig)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stuart Fraley <swfraley(at)alpha.comsource.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for a finished RV-4 |
I know of a very nice -4 for sale here in Evansville, Indiana. He's asking
$39,900 last I heard. E-mail me if you're interested.
Stuart Fraley
swfraley(at)comsource.net
> I know this might be TABOO but I am looking for an already built RV-4.
>I have read youre mailing list for a couple of weeks now and seen nothing
>about used completed RV-4s. If you know of any for sale please let me know by
>E-mail as I realize that this topic is not exactly the mail list topic.
>
>Thanks for youre help in advance and sorry for the intrusion.
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________________
>**********************************************************\
>PGP 2.6.2 *82 50 FF 81 45 E8 75 FA* Marc Christensen FLY ****\
>Fingerprint*11 C2 12 9E A0 F9 31 1F* LT USNR NAVY****/
>**********************************************************/
>----my opinions are independent of the US Navy
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
>>Several people now have recommended NO battery box at all,
>>especially if using a RG battery. Just to make sure I'm clear
>>on this, before I commit to NOT installing the box -- is there
>>ANY reason at all to even have a battery box, aside from
>>hold-down and wire/terminal protection, with the standard
>>in-cockpit RV installation, using an RG battery?
>I still like the idea of the box. Hold down and terminal
>protection are important. With the box, a broader contact area
>can be spread across the top of the battery for the hold down function
>as opposed to other methods of clamping the battery down. How
>much does the battery weigh under 5-6 G's, 120-140 lbs.? I think
>the terminals should be covered, battery box or no. I think a
>painted battery box would look cleaner than just a battery. Also,
>the box could be used to mount the battery contactor in order to
>keep this wire length to a minimum.
Some good points . . . one should indeed use the rubber nipples over
exposed connector studs both on the battery (+) terminal and ALL
other exposed hot terminals in the system.
With respect to battery hold down, we've run some testing for single
strap hold down of the RG batteries at 15 Gs, (300 pounds for a typical
25 a.h. battery) and found no causes for concern. Actually, most battery
box lids in Cessna's are held down with two straps on either side of
the battery box that will not stay put at 300 pounds! Let's put some
analysis to the question. Most RV's put the battery against the firwall
which will retain the battery under the most obvious crash loading
axis. The next worse is vertical loads applied to the tray which again
is a no brainer. The next worse case is vertical loads against the
strap. Believe me, if your airplane arrives with an attitude that puts
10 Gs on the battery in the upward direction, battery separation from
the airframe is the LEAST of your worries.
If it were MY RV, I would be very comfortable with two 1" steel straps
holding a battery into a snug fitting tray, braced against the aft side
of the firewall. You'll save several pounds and eliminate one of the
sheet metal penetrations that requires the protection that we've been
talking about the past week. As for appearace, the RG battery comes
in your choice of decorator colors: red and gray, gloss grey with
sporty red epoxy terminal seals and generic gloss black . . . . what
a deal!
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV Inspection/Phoenix |
My wife and I will be on vacation/business trip in Phoenix, Grand Caynon and
points between (motorcycle tour and a conference) the week of June 16 to the
23rd. If any listers would like me to inspect their project, send me a
private e-mail so we can coordinate a visit.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
rv6junkie(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking longerons |
On Thu, 9 May 1996, Rich Ward wrote:
> So is my RV4 now an un-airworthy piece of junk?
Sorry to cause alarm. I'll bet 90 % of the RVs now flying have
countersunk longerons. I would have done it that way myself, except for
this discussion. It sure would be nice if someone from Van's would
monitor this group and post something to set the record straight!
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: interior painting |
> Richard, The only problem with your idea is that the hose between
> the first stage (On tank) and second stage (In mouth) is charged
> with 120 to 140 psi of air pressure. This pressure is required to
> make the second stage breath easily. (without getting into a lot of
> detail).
Okay, so using the scuba regulator that way is out. You'd need a surface
supply compressor or something.
> Also your lungs are only capable of drawing air through
> about four feet of 1" hose. You will need to have valves at the end
> of your hose and make sure you exhaust very near your mouth so that
> fresh air is always getting into your lungs and you are not exhausting
> air back up the hose.
The Isreali gas mask I'm talking about has such a valve in the front. The
intake is where the filter normally screws on (GREAT for cleaning the cat pan
or cleaning the bathroom with straight ammonia) and where I would connect the
hose, and a little flapper type valve is under it (No need to filter your
exhalations).
> P.S. By the way.... I think you have a great sign-off
I've had it so long I was considering changing it. I used to have the actual
audio clip on my answering machine before it ate the tape.
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking longerons |
Belw is the reply I got back for Tom re countersinking the longerons.
Ross
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Countersinking longerons
>
>NO,NO,NO,,,, you DON'T have to replace the longerons....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>It is just common practice to do as the manual says, drill the side skins on 3"
>centers, machine c-sink the longerons and then dimple the sides and rivet them
>on. Once this is accomplished and the fuse is off the jig, then you fit the
>turtle deck and since the sides ARE already in place, it is then impossible to
>do anything but machine sink the sides and slightly into the longerons... thus
>allowing you to dimple the turtle deck...
>
>
>I your smart enough to predrill, pre machince csink, and etc before
fitting the
>sides, all the better... tom
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-6/6A Fuselage Jig; RV-4 Wings |
| From: | Jack Abell <abell(at)rand.org> |
I have an RV-6/6A fuselage jig available to anyone who wants it. It's
located in Los Angeles, about 20 blocks from LAX and it's free. All you
have to do is pick it up (or have it picked up).
Art Chard, who left Van's Aircraft last year after building all of Van's
prototypes, has some RV-4 wings for sale. He can be reached at (503)
647-9803.
Jack Abell
RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HowardRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Audio Flight Gauge |
On page 123 of the May Sport Aviation, there is an ad for a Ausio Flight
Avionics multi voice engine monitor that scans a bunch of things. Anyone
know anything about this?
Howard Kidwell
howardrv(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | AirBeetle Basics |
I spent an enjoyable 6 months working on the AirBeetle in Nigeria (I actually
worked onthe first production model and saw it presented to the Nigerian Air
Force)
Key elements of the 'Beetle are
RV6A airframe
Full inverted fuel and oil system
Ellison Throttle body
MOGAS
Three axis electric trim
Electric flaps
Electric Dive brake under the belly
Sliding canopy (3 inches bigger than Van's, to allow for bone domes)
Wrap around (three piece) instrument panel with slide out, tip down centre
section
28v operation
Spring steel gear mounted BEHIND the spar. (I have this on mine too)
Bigger rudder (because of the shielding effect of the bigger canopy)
Thicker rudder and elevator skins
Dual controls with centre and left quadrants
Adjustable rudder pedals
Cowl flaps
180 hp engine with constant speed prop
VM1000 engine monitor
Quick release cowl (no hinge except on bottom rear)
Max Gross 1850!!!
The RV6 competed with many other aircraft for this position. Basically the
Nigerian airforce wanted to replace their fleet of Bulldog basic trainers.
There was nothing really wrong with the Bulldogs except that Nigeria didn't
keep up its maintenance agreement with British Aerospace and couldn't get
spares. It was really sad to see 20 or so Bulldogs sitting collecting dust.
There were also Jaguars, MIG 21s and others just rotting away.
The company put the Beetle through an extensive flight test using an ex RAF
Red Arrows guy who would often beat up the field with some INCREDIBLE low
level aerobatics.
I'd be glad to answer any question anyone has on it.
Ken
RV6a test flight imminent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Chatter Repitched Propellors |
Yes, some aircraft have a 'yellow' band in the 2200 RPM range.
This is to avoid one of the destructive hamonic points.
I have the graph from Sensensich for the 76EM8-0 prop (commonly used on 180
HP O-360's). The '2N' harmonic node is right at 2150 to 2200 RPM.
There is a '10N' node also in this range.
The graph shows a RPM band from abour 2250 to to 2700 RPM for continous
operation. Anyone reducing the power down into this 2200 RPM range
is not babying the engine, they are shorting the life of the prop.
You hit the 8N node at 2800 and the 4N node at about 3100 RPM.
Repitching will not affect this. However making the blades shorter will.
There is a certain amount that can be removed from the tips and still be
airworthy. I think this prop can be shortened about 1 inch or so.
This means that Sensensich has flight tested the prop at these limits
and you are still OK for operation at the approved RPM.
Shortining the blades moves these destructive nodes down the RPM curve
so that the nodes at 2800 RPM move down to where you may be crusing.
(Also, this graph is for the 180HP prop. I don't have such a graph for the
O-320 prop -74DM that most expermental types cut down.)
Once you start wacking on the prop and cutting the blades shorter, then
all bets are off as to where the destructive harmonics are.
Sensensich took about 2 yrs or more to come up with the fixed pitch prop
for the RV's and it was due to a lot of trial and error on getting a prop
that would climb and cruse OK and still not have a problem on the harmonics.
They put the Red line limit at 2600 RPM because there is a node at
2750 or so and they know the tach's can be off 50 to 100 RPM and the lawyers
wanted another 50 RPM for safe keeping.
Herman (now flying the Sensensich certified FP prop)
>
> = Certified props are designed to have the cruse RPM be in safe limits so that
> = the destructive nodes of the harmonics are outside the normal RPM range.
>
> I seem to recall flying some Cherokees (Warrior?) with a red band on the tach
> right in the middle of the cruise range; 2100-2300 rpm, or so. I think the POH
> stated that prolonged ops in this range were to be avoided - was this an engine
> consideration or a prop consideration, or both? If it was to protect the prop
> from destructive harmonics, could the same be done for repitched props once the
> dangerous condition was identified?
>
> BStobbe
> RV-6
> still upside down
> (fuselage in the jig)
>
>
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: rv-8 empennage |
>Can I use My RV-4 empenagge to build a RV-8 or are they different?
>
>
>
No, yes, well, maybe.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AirBeetle Basics |
Do you know how the Ellison TBI worked out for them?
I always have gotten a mixed reaction. Either people love em or hate em.
Do they use Van's normal air filter airbox with the TBI?
Good info, thanks.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Project Summary |
>> About as nice, friendly guy as I've ever done business with. Yet, the one
thing that he caught, proved that he was thorough. (some thing I fixed >>in
about 30 seconds).
>Aw, c'mon John, aren't you going to tell us what it was he found?
>
>Randall Henderson
>randall(at)edt.com
a lock nut on the elev. trim cable rod end bearing at the trim tab, had not
been tightened.
Naughty me.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: AirBeetle Basics |
> There was nothing really wrong with the Bulldogs except that
> Nigeria didn't keep up its maintenance agreement with British
> Aerospace and couldn't get spares. It was really sad to see 20 or
> so Bulldogs sitting collecting dust.
> There were also Jaguars, MIG 21s and others just rotting away.
They selling? :-)
> The company put the Beetle through an extensive flight test using an
> ex RAF Red Arrows guy who would often beat up the field with
> some INCREDIBLE low level aerobatics.
Got video?
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Canopy-Rivets or screws?? |
>BTW, I used silicone RTV for sealing. Be sure to make the holes in the
>plastic
>oversized either way. Hope this helps. Mel Barlow, N114RV, IJD,
How much oversized?
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)indirect.com> |
Previously written:
>Took my shop vac, a $7 sump
>pump flexible hose (15 feet - could couple two together if you want more
>distance), fashioned a hood from a large laundry bag and some clear plastic
>and have all the fresh air I can breathe when I paint. I set the shop vac
>upwind of any breeze, run the hose up my back and under the hood (tied
>around my chest and waist) and have never detected the least odor of
>Variprime.
I saw a similar system using a vacuum cleaner used by a EAA chapter Tech
Counselor in Phoenix a couple of years ago. He had good results reversing
the vacuum so it blew air versus sucking it. IMPORTANT TIP: Use a new,
clean bag in the vacuum unless you want to breathe in everything you
vacuumed up over the past several months in a couple of seconds! I still
got the Hobbyair for the convenience for everyday use - the vacuum system
is Rube Goldberg, it works, but is not convenient.
Mike Kukulski (kukulski(at)indirect.com)
RV-4 N96MK, fabricating wing root fairings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
Be sure to round the corner of the boards before you clamp the skin in place.
That will make a smoother bend.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Chatter Repitched Propellors |
> Sensensich took about 2 yrs or more to come up with the fixed pitch prop
> for the RV's and it was due to a lot of trial and error on getting a prop
> that would climb and cruse OK and still not have a problem on the harmonics.
> They put the Red line limit at 2600 RPM because there is a node at
> 2750 or so and they know the tach's can be off 50 to 100 RPM and the lawyers
> wanted another 50 RPM for safe keeping.
>
> Herman (now flying the Sensensich certified FP prop)
Herman, Wouldn't it have been nice if Sensenich would have made provisions
for accurate tachs, e.g. Braal digital or others, that have been double
checked by another tach (Prop Tach, etc.) On the other hand, when the
lawyers protect Sensenich's butt, they protect ours.
I put the 68x77 Sensenich 70CM on my 150 hp RV-6. I'm getting 2082 static
at 2400 feet altitude and 2470 at 7,500' at full throttle, leaned for best
power. I'm still in the process of eliminating possible engine glitches for
lack of ability to turn the prop up to 2600 rpms at altitude. I'm at the
end of my rope on anything that could be affecting engine performance so
lean towards the prop being mis-pitched from the factory. The Sensenich rep
said that this sometimes happens. My prop shop says it will take a
reduction of about 2.6 inches of pitch to reach 2600 rpms based on 1" = 50
rpm's, I think the Sensenich guy said 1" = 35 rpm's, which would be a
reduction of 3.7" of pitch.
I've only been able to do one test run as bad weather has settled here in
Nebraska and doesn't want to seem to leave.
What engine are you using on your RV-? (sorry, don't remember what you're
flying) and what kind of static and full throttle rpms are you getting? Any
other statistics, ROC, etc.? Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
Ref: Your Assumption
"NAS 1097 are NOT intended to be used as a structural rivet. They do NOT
have the same pull-through strength as either #3 or #4 rivets. The head
diameter might be the same as as a #3 rivet, but the *area* of the head
that actually holds the rivet is much smaller in a 1097 than a regular #3.
Frankly, I am just about ready to countersink my longerons and probably
would have made the same mistake if it weren't for this list. Is it
standard practice with riveting multiple sheets together to only dimple
the outer sheet and then countersink through the remaining laminations?
It sounds like that is the practice Van's is specifying."
You may want to call Beechcraft, Piper, and Lockheed and tell them the 1097
Rivets are not structural. I'm sure they will find that information very
interesting.
There are many ways to assemble these airplanes. Dimpling into a countersink
is a standard and excepted practice. This also makes a very strong joint.
IMHO, don't throw airplanes away that are built with these methods.
Regards,
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 12 / 24 volt dual system - help please... |
Hi everyone,
I've been quiet recently, burning the midnight oil at the hanger doing
final prep.
N517RV is now fully assembled (yippeeeee!), and awaiting the FAA on tuesday the
14th
May...
I Actually did some high(ish) speed taxi testing tonight at Ellington Field, -
up to
50 MPH... got the nose gear well off (it would actually begin to come off at about
40
indicated), and the stall horn works! - no the mains never left the ground...
Anyway, here's the question, I fitted a "dual voltage" set up, because I got an
absolute steal on a 24V radio stack. The elements are as follows.
24v alternator, 2x12V RG batteries in seris. 2 busses, one 24 from the 2 batteries,
together, and one 12 from a center tap on the battery interconnection. Since it
was
getting darkish during taxi tests, I had the landing light and the nav lights on
- the
12 V system dropped to about 11.5V on the voltmeter and the 24v voltmeter was up
at
28V. I guess that the drain was causing an unbalance - my original thinking was
that
the most discharged battery would have the least resistance and hence keep "balanced"
but,.. maybe not so....
Here is a rough schematic....
_____
| alt |
------- |---- battery ----battery----GND
| | |
| | |
ammeter ------------- |
| 12v bus
| |
GND----stuff---------24v bus |------ stuff--GND
Any Ideas from the electric gurus out there????
Thanks in advance
Rob Lee - counting the hours....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | (oops - revised schematic) , re:12 / 24 volt dual system - help |
please...
Hi everyone,
I've been quiet recently, burning the midnight oil at the hanger doing
final prep.
N517RV is now fully assembled (yippeeeee!), and awaiting the FAA on tuesday the
14th
May...
I Actually did some high(ish) speed taxi testing tonight at Ellington Field, -
up to
50 MPH... got the nose gear well off (it would actually begin to come off at about
40
indicated), and the stall horn works! - no the mains never left the ground...
Anyway, here's the question, I fitted a "dual voltage" set up, because I got an
absolute steal on a 24V radio stack. The elements are as follows.
24v alternator, 2x12V RG batteries in seris. 2 busses, one 24 from the 2 batteries,
together, and one 12 from a center tap on the battery interconnection. Since it
was
getting darkish during taxi tests, I had the landing light and the nav lights on
- the
12 V system dropped to about 11.5V on the voltmeter and the 24v voltmeter was up
at
28V. I guess that the drain was causing an unbalance - my original thinking was
that
the most discharged battery would have the least resistance and hence keep "balanced"
but,.. maybe not so....
Here is a rough schematic....
_____
| alt |
------- |---- battery ----battery----GND
_______| | |
| | | |
| ammeter ------------- |
| |
|_______________________ 12v bus
| |
| |
GND----stuff---------24v bus |------ stuff--GND
Any Ideas from the electric gurus out there????
Thanks in advance
Rob Lee - counting the hours....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick O'Reilly" <patricko(at)ihd.com> |
To answer your question with a question:
What will you call it? RV-48, RV-84, RV-12, RV-X, RV-?, RV-Graft.
Well, whatever it is I guess it will still be an RV !!!!!
Regards, Patrick O'Reilly
patricko(at)ihd.com
>----------
>From: Don Goodin[SMTP:CompuServe.COM!71201.1375(at)matronics.com]
>Sent: 09 May, 1996 15:49
>To: rv-list
>Subject: RV-List: rv-8 empennage
>
>Can I use My RV-4 empenagge to build a RV-8 or are they different?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: (oops - revised schematic) , re:12 / 24 volt dual , system |
- help please...
Rob,
IMHO, this isn't going to work very well. Think about what is happening
here. Only one battery is supplying all the current for the 12V system,
it will drain, voltage drop, and the 24V combination sees a drop in voltage,
alternator kicks in and tries to charge but the "top" battery is going to
take most of the charging current(energy); hence a rise in its voltage.
I would go down to my local electronics shop and see if I could find a
12VDC power supply that accepts 28VDC input rated at about 1.5x the max.
current your 12V system needs. This would be attached to your 28V buss
of course.
They have the same problem with electric cars; a bank of batteries at
96, 108 or higher volts depending on the number of batteries is used for
the motor but you still need 12V for other stuff, radios, gauges etc.
Attempts at just "tapping" off one of the batteries result in shorter
life spans for the batteries and uneven charging currents. They use
a DC-DC converter e.g. a SEVCON & CURTIS DC-DC converter which accepts
48-160VDC input and outputs 14V @25amps (KTA Services Inc. 909.949.7914)
This is overkill for your needs but is the same principle. You might
give them a call though, they may know of a source. Also check the
yellow rag, seems to me I've seen advertisments for the DC-DC converter
you need. BTW, you'll see both 14V and 12V used as the voltage level,
it doesn't really matter, usually converters are rated at 14V but that's
what you need. Hope this helps.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking longerons |
Hey Rich,
I'd fly your RV-4 in a minute!
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
On Thu, 9 May 1996, Rich Ward wrote:
**** snip *****
>
> So is my RV4 now an un-airworthy piece of junk?
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barrow(at)zk3.dec.com |
| Subject: | Re: Chatter Repitched Propellors |
<199605092346.SAA10332(at)dierks.austin.ibm.com>
> Herman (now flying the Sensensich certified FP prop)
> They put the Red line limit at 2600 RPM because there is a node at
> 2750 or so and they know the tach's can be off 50 to 100 RPM and the lawyers
> wanted another 50 RPM for safe keeping.
Gee, my 172 tach is off 120 rpm. It's worth checking these things...
Marcus Barrow
barrow(at)zk3.dec.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AirBeetle Basics |
You wrote:
>
> Key elements of the 'Beetle are
>
> RV6A airframe
> Full inverted fuel and oil system
> Ellison Throttle body
> MOGAS
> Three axis electric trim
> Electric flaps
> Electric Dive brake under the belly
> Sliding canopy (3 inches bigger than Van's, to allow for bone domes)
> Wrap around (three piece) instrument panel with slide out, tip down centre
> section
> 28v operation
> Spring steel gear mounted BEHIND the spar. (I have this on mine too)
> Bigger rudder (because of the shielding effect of the bigger canopy)
> Thicker rudder and elevator skins
> Dual controls with centre and left quadrants
> Adjustable rudder pedals
> Cowl flaps
> 180 hp engine with constant speed prop
> VM1000 engine monitor
> Quick release cowl (no hinge except on bottom rear)
> Max Gross 1850!!!
>
Could you please elaborate on:
Electric Dive brake under the belly
Wrap around (three piece) instrument panel with slide out, tip down centre
Spring steel gear mounted BEHIND the spar.
Dual controls with centre and left quadrants
Thanks.
dougm@physio-control.com Spent an hour last night deburring top skin for 2nd
wing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
How about "RV having fun yet?"?
Chris
>
> To answer your question with a question:
>
> What will you call it? RV-48, RV-84, RV-12, RV-X, RV-?, RV-Graft.
>
> Well, whatever it is I guess it will still be an RV !!!!!
>
> Regards, Patrick O'Reilly
> patricko(at)ihd.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: icing encounter |
>Fred, I've never had the side windows or sides of a canopy ice up.
>You didn't indicate if this was feezing rain. The warmer air above
>and the rapidity of buildup seems to indicate that it may have been.
>If you encountered freezing rain, you were able to dodge it using
>the classic climb to warmer air technique that sometimes requires
>more performance than a light aircraft can deliver. Thanks to
>a good performing aircraft, it worked for you.
>
>Was it freezing rain or "just" moderate to severe clear, rime, or
>mixed icing that you encountered? Is there something about the airflow
>over the RV-6 canopy that makes it likely to collect ice on the sides?
>
>Thanks for the information!
>
>Cal
Cal:
Yes, it was freezing rain. If I remember correctly, the forcast did
indicate showers, but the freezing level was at 9000' or so, well below the
first leg altitude. I didn't expect to see ice at 3000', but then again, a
frontal system was passing that may have mixed up the air a bit more than
expected. At the time, I was on an easterly assigned heading, going slow
(130mph), hoping that I wouldn't be in that direction long (I wanted to go
south west!). The ice started on the windshield first and look granular in
nature. Then procedded to form down both sides until then was little or no
visibility out the sides. The ice on the canopy sides appeared smother from
inside, so possibly is was just the rain flowing around the canopy and
freezing.
Since this is the first significant ice I've picked up in the -6A (and
hopefully the last), I can't say much about the canopy airflow Vs ice
formation. All I know is that the plane responded quite well given the
circumstances........
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AirBeetle Basics |
Can you also describe the:
Quick release cowl (no hinge except on bottom rear)
Thanks, Herman
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Chatter Repitched Propellors |
Bob, I used the 70CM7S16-0(78) prop from vans. This is the recommended
prop for RV4 with 150 HP. This is a 70 inch prop with 78 pitch.
I have the 150 HP O320-E2D (ie C172 engine) which has 925 hr TT on it.
I have not done a static test as I fly from a dirt strip and don't want
to suck rocks into the prop. I will try it on a paved strip soon.
At full power and 2 to 3000 ft MSL I get around 2500 or a little more RPM.
I did a check on my tach with an electronic tach check and it is reading
around 75 RMP low. So I am runing right at 2600 RPM calibrated at low
altitudes. I don't have very good speed numbers as it has been soo windy
and bumpy. I have seen 190 to 195 mph average on two way runs with GPS
at full power. At cruse at aprox 2400 I get mid 170's (175 mph).
Also, I have an exh system from Lewis aviation that is 2 into 1 on each
side and this is not the best system for performance so I think I am
a little down on power from what it could be.
Herman
>
> > Sensensich took about 2 yrs or more to come up with the fixed pitch prop
> > for the RV's and it was due to a lot of trial and error on getting a prop
> > that would climb and cruse OK and still not have a problem on the harmonics.
> > They put the Red line limit at 2600 RPM because there is a node at
> > 2750 or so and they know the tach's can be off 50 to 100 RPM and the lawyers
> > wanted another 50 RPM for safe keeping.
> >
> > Herman (now flying the Sensensich certified FP prop)
>
>
> Herman, Wouldn't it have been nice if Sensenich would have made provisions
> for accurate tachs, e.g. Braal digital or others, that have been double
> checked by another tach (Prop Tach, etc.) On the other hand, when the
> lawyers protect Sensenich's butt, they protect ours.
> I put the 68x77 Sensenich 70CM on my 150 hp RV-6. I'm getting 2082 static
> at 2400 feet altitude and 2470 at 7,500' at full throttle, leaned for best
> power. I'm still in the process of eliminating possible engine glitches for
> lack of ability to turn the prop up to 2600 rpms at altitude. I'm at the
> end of my rope on anything that could be affecting engine performance so
> lean towards the prop being mis-pitched from the factory. The Sensenich rep
> said that this sometimes happens. My prop shop says it will take a
> reduction of about 2.6 inches of pitch to reach 2600 rpms based on 1" = 50
> rpm's, I think the Sensenich guy said 1" = 35 rpm's, which would be a
> reduction of 3.7" of pitch.
> I've only been able to do one test run as bad weather has settled here in
> Nebraska and doesn't want to seem to leave.
> What engine are you using on your RV-? (sorry, don't remember what you're
> flying) and what kind of static and full throttle rpms are you getting? Any
> other statistics, ROC, etc.? Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6
>
>
--
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis
phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831
MS: 9530 fax: 512-838-1801
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <tcraig-stearman(at)laugate1.lau.aetc.af.mil> (Tom Craig-Stearman) |
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking longerons |
About countersinking the longerons:
Hey fellas, am I missing something here? On my RV-4 turtledeck, I machine
countersunk the longeron and dimpled the side and top skins. I can't see
any other way to join two thin skins to an eigth-inch longeron. I will go
back and read my manual, but I don't recall any special instructions about
countersinking through two thicknesses of metal. What is the supposed
problem with countersinking 1/8" angle?
By the way, on advice from two friends (and after looking at their
beautiful airplanes) I used 3/32" rivets at 1" spacing on the top longeron;
makes the lap joint MUCH smoother. Van approved the change. If the
countersink depth into the longeron is the apparent problem, this method
might obviate the concern.
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
RV-4 awaiting finish kit
-------------
Original Text
From: Dan Boudro <nmia.com!dboudro(at)matronics.com>, on 5/10/96 8:12 AM:
Hey Rich,
I'd fly your RV-4 in a minute!
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
On Thu, 9 May 1996, Rich Ward wrote:
**** snip *****
>
> So is my RV4 now an un-airworthy piece of junk?
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AirBeetle Basics |
Any details on the belly mounted speed brake? Manual, electric or ? Any
sketches or drawings? Effectiveness? Weight? Affect on pitch trim?
Mike Talley
RV-6(A?) lh elevator out of the jig, putting on the tips, wing kit in July
miket(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ted_boudreaux(at)om.cv.hp.com |
Well, I sent a question to Tom at Vans last month asking whether or not I
could use my 6 empennage to build an 8. He said no, it's not big enough, and
the skins are too thin. I assume that the 6 empennage is larger than the 4, so
I don't think it's doable. Best to check with Van's, though.
Ted Boudreaux
RV6 (possibly -A) #22435
empennage (possibly forever)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | 12/24 volt dual system |
>
> . . . here's the question, I fitted a "dual voltage" set up,
>because I got an absolute steal on a 24V radio stack. The elements
>are as follows.
>
>24v alternator, 2x12V RG batteries in seris. 2 busses, one 24 from the 2
>batteries, together, and one 12 from a center tap on the battery
>interconnection. Since it was getting darkish during taxi tests,
>I had the landing light and the nav lights on - the 12 V system dropped
>to about 11.5V on the voltmeter and the 24v voltmeter was up at
>28V. I guess that the drain was causing an unbalance - my original
>thinking was that the most discharged battery would have the least
>resistance and hence keep "balanced" but,.. maybe not so....
>
>Here is a rough schematic....
>
> _____
> | alt |
> ------- |---- battery ----battery----GND
> | | |
> | | |
> ammeter ------------- |
> | 12v bus
> | |
> GND----stuff---------24v bus |------ stuff--GND
>
>Any Ideas from the electric gurus out there????
>
>
Folks, this scheme has been tried more times than I care to remember,
it's never worked. The batteries wind up getting abused by combinations
of overcharging/undercharging. The most successful attempts tried to
balance things out by swapping the upper and lower battery every few
hours. His batteries lasted a whole two months!
The only way you can mix 12/24 volt accessories is to pick the system
with the lowest wattage requirements and provide a DC to DC converter
for those components and make the PRIMARY system the other voltage.
In this case, I'd probably choose 12 as the primary system and add
a 12 -> 24 volt dc to dc converter.
NOW the bad news . . . the DC to DC converter becomes a single point
of failure for ALL devices it powers. If one flies IFR with converter
powered devices, a careful design of bus structures with TWO converters
is in order.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
On Fri, 10 May 1996 Mlfred(at)aol.com wrote:
> Ref: Your Assumption
> "NAS 1097 are NOT intended to be used as a structural rivet. They do NOT
> have the same pull-through strength as either #3 or #4 rivets. The head
> diameter might be the same as as a #3 rivet, but the *area* of the head
> that actually holds the rivet is much smaller in a 1097 than a regular #3.
>
> There are many ways to assemble these airplanes. Dimpling into a countersink
> is a standard and excepted practice. This also makes a very strong joint.
> IMHO, don't throw airplanes away that are built with these methods.
Well, I am just repeating the same information that others on the list
have stated in the past. If it is wrong, I apologize. I do stand behind
the statement that the heads on 1097 rivets have a lower grip strength
than regular #3 flush rivets. I should have said that 1097 rivets should
not be substituted for AN426 or 470 rivets in structural applications. I
can't see any reason not to use them IF you designed the structure around
them in the first place. Nor do I see any problem in using them for the
occasional substitution when you have an oversized hole or whatever.
As far as dimpling into a countersunk joint goes, yes I have done it many
times on my airplane and it is a standard practice as far as I can see.
The question is: what do you do when you have a flush rivet passing
through 3 or more laminations. I have been unable to find any standard
practice for this in my references, and I have assumed that the best way
to go would be to dimple each layer unless you get to a layer that is
thick enough to countersink WITHOUT over-countersinking. But, Van's seems
to now be saying that you should only dimple the top layer of skin and
countersink through the rest. This doesn't make any sense to me, but then
I didn't design the plane. So, I am only suggesting that we follow their
advice, under the assumption that they know more than we do.
I checked my construction manual last night and it does say to
countersink through the bottom skin/longeron together, although it is
easy enough to miss. But, there are certainly other areas in the airplane
where you have 3 or more layers and I don't know if it says what to do in
each case.
I didn't mean to open a can of worms, so I'll shut up now.
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking longerons (fwd) |
Tom, well put. On my RV-4, I also used the 3/32 rivets on 1 inch
spacing (instead of the 1/8 inch on 2 inch spacing).
I was told it will look smoother and will be stronger.
This is how the RV6's are built also.
You install the lower skin with rivets on 3inch spacing stagered so
they don't conflict with the top skin on 1 inch spacing.
I think I countersank thru the bottom skin and into the 1/8 thick longeron.
You then dimple the top fuselage skin. The top skin is installed after
the fuselage is flipped over.
I don't see any other way to do it.
I also think with the 3/32 rivets there is less to countersink vs
using 1/8 inch rivets. Herman
>
> About countersinking the longerons:
>
> Hey fellas, am I missing something here? On my RV-4 turtledeck, I machine
> countersunk the longeron and dimpled the side and top skins. I can't see
> any other way to join two thin skins to an eigth-inch longeron. I will go
> back and read my manual, but I don't recall any special instructions about
> countersinking through two thicknesses of metal. What is the supposed
> problem with countersinking 1/8" angle?
>
> By the way, on advice from two friends (and after looking at their
> beautiful airplanes) I used 3/32" rivets at 1" spacing on the top longeron;
> makes the lap joint MUCH smoother. Van approved the change. If the
> countersink depth into the longeron is the apparent problem, this method
> might obviate the concern.
>
> Regards,
> Tom Craig-Stearman
> RV-4 awaiting finish kit
> -------------
> Original Text
> From: Dan Boudro <nmia.com!dboudro(at)matronics.com>, on 5/10/96 8:12 AM:
> Hey Rich,
> I'd fly your RV-4 in a minute!
>
> Dan Boudro
> RV-4 N9167Z
> Albuquerque, NM
> dboudro(at)nmia.com
>
> On Thu, 9 May 1996, Rich Ward wrote:
> **** snip *****
> >
> > So is my RV4 now an un-airworthy piece of junk?
> >
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Countersinking longerons |
Belw is the reply I got back for Tom re countersinking the longerons.
Ross Mickey
>
>
>
>
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Countersinking longerons
>>
>>NO,NO,NO,,,, you DON'T have to replace the longerons....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>It is just common practice to do as the manual says, drill the side skins
on 3"
>>centers, machine c-sink the longerons and then dimple the sides and rivet them
>>on. Once this is accomplished and the fuse is off the jig, then you fit the
>>turtle deck and since the sides ARE already in place, it is then impossible to
>>do anything but machine sink the sides and slightly into the longerons... thus
>>allowing you to dimple the turtle deck...
>>
>>
>>I your smart enough to predrill, pre machince csink, and etc before
fitting the
>>sides, all the better... tom
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
I have worried about leaving nuts loose. I have been using the bright red
inspection laquer from Averys since the beginning of the project. Every
bolt that is tourqed gets a dab of this on to show me it has been tighted.
Ross Mickey
>>> About as nice, friendly guy as I've ever done business with. Yet, the one
>thing that he caught, proved that he was thorough. (some thing I fixed >>in
>about 30 seconds).
>
>>Aw, c'mon John, aren't you going to tell us what it was he found?
>>
>>Randall Henderson
>>randall(at)edt.com
>
>a lock nut on the elev. trim cable rod end bearing at the trim tab, had not
>been tightened.
>Naughty me.
>John D
>John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
>johnd@our-town.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking longerons |
Countersinking the *1/8"* longerons is NOT a problem, or if it
is, it sure is news to me!
The reason some of the holes are c-sunk through a skin plus the
longerons has nothing to do with not wanting to machine c-sink the
longerons. It's done because the side skins need to be riveted on before
taking the fuse out of the jig, and only later do you do the top
skins, so unless you pre-drill/c-sink the offset holes and back-drill
through for the top skins, you'll have to machine c-sink through a
skin. No big deal, it just has to do with the order of doing things, and
in fact you DO want to machine c-sink the longerons for all of the
side skin holes (3" spaced for where a top skin will overlap later,
1 1/2" elsewhere), and dimple the (.025!) side skins, and rivet these
prior to removing the fuselage from the jig.
The original poster was concerned because of an answer he got about
the spar carrythrough -- but that's .063, NOT 1/8! Which still
seems like it would be ok to c-sink to me, even with 1/8" rivets,
but apparently Van's has a problem with that which is why they're
specifying c-sinking through the underlapping skin.
OK?
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking longerons |
Tom Craig-Stearman, What kind of fuselage jig did you use? Please contact me
by my Email address. Bruce Bell rv4bell(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Arter <arter(at)acd.ucar.edu> |
Ted,
>From the RV-8 empennage kit picking ticket, these are the parts that have
800 series part numbers:
HS-801PP horiz stab skin
R-801PP rudder skin
VS-801PP vert stab skin
R-809 fbrgls tip-rudder
VS-809 fbrgls tip-vert stab
R-803 rudder rib-top
R-802PP counterbalance-rudder
VS-802 vert stab spar-fwd
VS-806 vert stab rib-tip
VS-803PP vert stab spar
VS-808PP vert spar plate
R-813PP rudder counterbalance skin
the rest have 400 or 600 numbers.
>From this it would appear the only difference between the -6 and -8 horiz
stab is the prepunched (PP) skin. The control surfaces have thicker skins.
The vertical stab and rudder are different (taller?), and the rudder has a
counterbalance, but most of the parts are the same as the -6.
If you have a -6 kit and haven't built the vert stab and control surfaces
yet, it looks like you should be able to buy a handful of parts and convert
to a -8, with the plans of course. I don't know how this would be accepted
by Van's Aircraft though.
Phil
arter(at)acd.ucar.edu
> Well, I sent a question to Tom at Vans last month asking whether or not I
>could use my 6 empennage to build an 8. He said no, it's not big enough, and
>the skins are too thin. I assume that the 6 empennage is larger than the
4, so
>I don't think it's doable. Best to check with Van's, though.
>
>Ted Boudreaux
>RV6 (possibly -A) #22435
>empennage (possibly forever)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
If you're going to attempt to draw a schematic or brief illustration using
dashes, underscores, slashes and such, please DON'T use tabs to make the blank
spaces. Tabs are open to interpretation by one's mail reader. Some make them
5 spaces, others 8 or 10. It's guaranteed to garble your graphic. If you
need to make a lot of blank space in your pictures, use good old ordinary
spaces.
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
| Subject: | 12/24 volt dual system |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB3E91.790E9740
Bob your recommendation is to install a primary a 12 volt system. Then =
use a DC to DC converter to power the radios which include two nav/coms =
and transponder. I am familiar with step down voltage converters but not =
step up converters. A step up converter would require an active =
oscillator circuit, coil system and rectifier. These are usually limited =
to low current applications. I guess we need to find out the current =
draw of all the 24 volt devices and size the converter appropriately. =
Would you please provide additional information such as supplier, cost, =
amperage capacity and possibly recommend a unit based upon experience.
Thanks=20
Greg Bordelon
greg(at)brokersys.com
Houston Texas
Rob's little helper...... =20
----------
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, =
III[SMTP:CompuServe.COM!72770.552(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Friday, May 10, 1996 11:57 AM
Subject: RV-List: 12/24 volt dual system
>
> . . . here's the question, I fitted a "dual voltage" set up,=20
>because I got an absolute steal on a 24V radio stack. The elements
>are as follows.=20
>
>24v alternator, 2x12V RG batteries in seris. 2 busses, one 24 from the =
2
>batteries, together, and one 12 from a center tap on the battery=20
>interconnection. Since it was getting darkish during taxi tests,=20
>I had the landing light and the nav lights on - the 12 V system =
dropped=20
>to about 11.5V on the voltmeter and the 24v voltmeter was up at=20
>28V. I guess that the drain was causing an unbalance - my original=20
>thinking was that the most discharged battery would have the least=20
>resistance and hence keep "balanced" but,.. maybe not so....
>
>Here is a rough schematic....
>
> _____ =09
> | alt |
> ------- |---- battery ----battery----GND
> | | |
> | | |
> ammeter ------------- |=20
> | 12v bus=09
> | |
> GND----stuff---------24v bus |------ stuff--GND
>
>Any Ideas from the electric gurus out there????
>
>
Folks, this scheme has been tried more times than I care to remember,
it's never worked. The batteries wind up getting abused by combinations
of overcharging/undercharging. The most successful attempts tried to
balance things out by swapping the upper and lower battery every few
hours. His batteries lasted a whole two months!
The only way you can mix 12/24 volt accessories is to pick the system
with the lowest wattage requirements and provide a DC to DC converter
for those components and make the PRIMARY system the other voltage.
In this case, I'd probably choose 12 as the primary system and add
a 12 -> 24 volt dc to dc converter.
NOW the bad news . . . the DC to DC converter becomes a single point
of failure for ALL devices it powers. If one flies IFR with converter
powered devices, a careful design of bus structures with TWO converters
is in order.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Contact for Boeing Surplus |
Hi Folks,
A number of times in the past when I heard some of you tell about the
great buys you got at Boeing Surplus, I have sighed and wished that I
had the opportunity to browse and shop there.
Well, a month or so back Peter Mortensen sent an email to the group
saying that he would be glad to pick up from Boeing some tools, etc for
any member who wanted any at slightly more than his cost, which, with
shipping, is still VERY much less than you can get things most other
places.
I took Peter up on it and 'ordered' several extra cleco pliers, various
drills, mushroom and offset rivet sets and the like. I have received
them and am really pleased with the bargains. For example, the drills
neck up at the chuck end to about 1/4 or 3/8 inch. They seem to be
much more stable and ride 'truer' in my Makita portable drill than my
thin drills.
Anyhow, without making this too long, if you would like to see what is
available and get some stuff at great bargains, I recommend you contact
Peter Mortensen directly at
n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com
Best regards,
Bill Costello
--
___ _____________________________
\ \ _ _ / /
\ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello Chicago \
X-*#####*******......./ N97WC (reserved) /
o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on left elev. \
\__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com /
\____________________________\
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | More AirBeetle stuff |
Do you know how the Ellison TBI worked out for them?
I always have gotten a mixed reaction. Either people love em or hate em.
Do they use Van's normal air filter airbox with the TBI?
The Ellison seemed to behave quite well even considering that it was using
Mogas in VERY high temperatures. There was a full flow fuel system where the
fuel was constantly circulated through to keep it cool. There were a few
problems STOPPING the engine but these got worked out in time. The main
problems seemed to be with fuel leaking BACK through the throttle body and
settling in the (Van's standard) air box, with the obvious risk of fire. We
solved this by drilling a small hole in the bottom of the box to let the fuel
spill out! There may have been other issues develop as they became operational
aircraft but I have not heard of any.
I saw your reply on the rv-list on the AirBeetle. I am looking for
a better way to attach my cowling on my RV-6a and would like to see
more info on how the cowling was attached on the AirBeetle. Do you
know of any back issues of publications that might have some pictures
that I could look for? Any info would be greatly appreciated. You can
either reply to me directly, or share it with the whole list!
Can you also describe the:
Quick release cowl (no hinge except on bottom rear)
The hinge along the top of the firewall was replace with a wide strip and this
area of the cowl was attached using just 3 Hartwell clamps. The sides of the
cowl also had strips of aluminium (<- this is what it was in Nigeria ;-) that
slotted into each other along the length of the sides. The top and bottom were
then clamped to each other using clamps that I can't recall the name of but
they are standard aircraft fittings.
All in all it was an easy fit but not quite as tight (especially around the
top) as the hinges. I toyed with the idea of doing something similar on mine
but chickened out at the last minute. Someone did a survey on this list about
a year ago for me on cowl attachments. I can't remember the details but there
was a definite move towards securing at least the top rear with fasteners. In
retrospect I wish I had and judging by some that I saw at Sun'nfun, it would
have been worth it.
I don't believe there are any pictures anywhere that could illustrate what I'm
saying but if you don't get my drift just ask away again.
Any details on the belly mounted speed brake? Manual, electric or ? Any
sketches or drawings? Effectiveness? Weight? Affect on pitch trim?
The speed brake was a BIG mother of a plate with holes in it that stretched
back from F604 where it was hinged. This was quite a major mod in that the
floor skin forward of the main spar was dropped at F604 by about 2 inches. The
speed brake then continued this line to meet the skin and streamlined it in.
It was activated by a modified electric flap actuator mounted under the seat.
Its main purpose was to get the 'Beetle down quickly through the murky layers
of Harmattan dust that hung over the place with engine power on. It worked
quite well, don't remember any serious trim change.
Thinking about all the work that is needed, this was NOT a mod I considered
for mine.
. It was really sad to see 20 or
> so Bulldogs sitting collecting dust.
> There were also Jaguars, MIG 21s and others just rotting away.
They selling? :-)
Actually, I enquired about these too! I got put off by a story that one of the
'officials' told me about a sale of a few MIG 17s to a scrap merchant. He did
the deal and greased the appropriate palms (VERY neccessary over there) and
came to collect his MIGs. Trouble was that he apparently missed one palm that
promptly got him arrested and thrown in a Nigerian prison..not a nice place.
I've heard since that other people have tried to get the Bulldogs with no
luck.
Could you please elaborate on:
Electric Dive brake under the belly
Done
Wrap around (three piece) instrument panel with slide out, tip down centre
Come and see mine next year at Sun'nfun ;-) Basically the two sides (about 8
inches each) are cut and angled forward. The centre section is on slide rails
so that it can be changed quickly or worked on in the plane. This was
neccessary because of the poor access with a sliding canopy.
Spring steel gear mounted BEHIND the spar.
This was a two piece spring steel gear that bolted on the outside of the plane
into a substantial addition of angle and bar inside. I think Van put something
similar on the RV6T except that it was bolted inside the plane...not sure
here. I retrofited my 6A with this and it was no easy task. I also think the
only reason I was able to get the parts was that I'd done a few. I like the
way it sits now, a little higher than the standard 6a and I don't have that
horibble spiders web in front of the spar.
Dual controls with centre and left quadrants
There were quite a few earlier messages on this here. The big difference was
that the centre controls were not standard push pull cables, but were levers.
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen ) |
| Subject: | Re: 12 / 24 volt dual system - help please... |
I can think of a couple of options: if possible put each of two equal
big power comsuming items (e.g. landing lights if you have two) in
series and run off 24 Volts, and only run low amp consuming items off
12 volts (i.e. the one battery).
Another option is to put your 2 batteries in parallel, and get a DC-DC
converter (12 -> 24 Volts) that can deliver sufficient amperage to
supply your radio stack (driving a separate 24V bus for the radio stack
only.).
Finn
You wrote:
>
>Hi everyone,
>
>I've been quiet recently, burning the midnight oil at the hanger doing
>final prep.
>
>N517RV is now fully assembled (yippeeeee!), and awaiting the FAA on
tuesday the 14th
>May...
>I Actually did some high(ish) speed taxi testing tonight at Ellington
Field, - up to
>50 MPH... got the nose gear well off (it would actually begin to come
off at about 40
>indicated), and the stall horn works! - no the mains never left the
ground...
>
>Anyway, here's the question, I fitted a "dual voltage" set up, because
I got an
>absolute steal on a 24V radio stack. The elements are as follows.
>
>24v alternator, 2x12V RG batteries in seris. 2 busses, one 24 from the
2 batteries,
>together, and one 12 from a center tap on the battery interconnection.
Since it was
>getting darkish during taxi tests, I had the landing light and the nav
lights on - the
>12 V system dropped to about 11.5V on the voltmeter and the 24v
voltmeter was up at
>28V. I guess that the drain was causing an unbalance - my original
thinking was that
>the most discharged battery would have the least resistance and hence
keep "balanced"
>but,.. maybe not so....
>
>Here is a rough schematic....
>
> _____
> | alt |
> ------- |---- battery ----battery----GND
> | | |
> | | |
> ammeter ------------- |
> | 12v bus
> | |
> GND----stuff---------24v bus |------
stuff--GND
>
>Any Ideas from the electric gurus out there????
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>Rob Lee - counting the hours....
>
________________________________________________________________________________
unsuscribe m150(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino) |
| Subject: | It must be Christmas! |
RV-8 tail kit #80039 arrived today. I just fininshed unpacking the
three cartons and checking their condition. Although there were two skins
with a small bend at the ends, they were not creased, so they will be OK
when riveted in place. I have not had a chance to make sure everything is
there yet, but hope to do it over the weekend. It feels like Christmas! I
have been waiting since last summer, and my EAA chapter (839) has been
building away on their 6. I guess I'll build the jig over the next few weeks.
Jim Cimino
RV-8 #80039
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Jorgensen <rpjorgen(at)wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Contact for Boeing Surplus |
I have also had Peter Mortensen send me a rv "care package" of Boeing
Surplus tools. I cant say enough good things about the way it worked out
and the tools I recieved.
*****************************************************************************
rick jorgensen
email address:rpjorgen(at)wheel.ucdavis.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Fuselage jig tip |
Tried something on the fuselage jig today that worked so I thought I'd
post it. To get a perfect plumb on your firewall after it's attached
to the fuselage jig uprights (2x6"s) just lag screw a couple large
turn buckles (one on each side) to the 2x6 uprights and the very long
horizontal beams (down there close to where the longerons attach to
the firewall weldments). You can then use the turn buckles to
micro-adjust the plum of your firewall absolutely perfect. This
eliminates shimming and all that kind of stuff. Don't forget, you
still have to level it.
chet razer, finally got fuselage kit, now jigging up f606
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | paulried(at)Interpath.com |
| Subject: | Who's RV-6A - N37RH |
At Sun & Fun I took some pictures of a great RV-6A that was white with yellow and
red
striping. My son's head is in the way of the N # in the photo's, but I believe
it is N37RH.
Does anyone know who this beauty belongs to and if they are on the list?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wbpace(at)adnc.com (Bill Pace) |
| Subject: | Re: Stab Skin Trim |
>On Tue, 7 May 1996 paulried(at)Interpath.com wrote:
>
>> Just finished drilling and dimpling all of the holes on the stab of my
>>6A. One last thing to
>> decide before riviting the skin down.... should I trim the skin flush at
>>the root and cut the tip
>> skins to the prescribed dimensions before I rivet or worry about it later?
>
>
>Trim the skins at the root now (After you've riveted the skins down,
>you'll never be able to trim the root ends without nicking the HS-610 and
>611.
[stuff deleted]
>
I trimmed the root end with my trusty Sears router. This was the first
time I used a router on metal (with much trepidation) and it worked like a
charm. The basic step are:
1) *Carefully* measure how much needs to be trimmed by measuring at
the leading and trailing edges.
2) Draw this line on the outside of the skin where you can see it
during cutting.
3) To this reference line, add the distance from the outside edge
of your router base to the edge of the router bit. (Be sure to use the
outer most edge of the bit in case the cutter protrudes from it a bit - any
straight bit will do fine). Mark this on the skin as well.
4) Clamp a straight edge to the skin at the second line to act as
an edge guide for your router. Use something which is thick enough that
the router can't easily jump over it (ouch!). Be careful not to deform the
skin.
5) Adjust the cutter depth so that it just a tad deeper than the
skin is thick.
6) WEAR HEARING AND EYE PROTECTION!
7) GENTLY, cut the skin with your router. You'll want to get your
face right down into the action so you can see your work. Be careful at the
leading edge, you don't want to run into the other side of the skin with
the cutter.
8) Finish off the leading edge with a file.
The resulting edge is straight, clean, and needs only a little deburring.
Like everything else in airplane building, the setup takes a little time,
but the actual cutting operation goes real fast.
I have used this method on all of the tail skins so far and I swear by it.
The router cuts thin aluminum like it was warm butter. A small base router
like the kind I think is used to trim counter top laminates might be easier
to work with. If anyone knows where I can get a clamp-on base for my
Dremel tool, please drop me a note. I would really like to use the smaller
tool since it would be even easier to control.
A word of caution - be very, very careful with that router. One small slip
will ruin your skin...
-----
Bill Pace Life is not so much an adventure
wbpace(at)adnc.com as it is a paycheck.
(also wbpace(at)aol.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren_Branscomb(at)prodigy.com ( WARREN BRANSCOMB) |
I am an RV6 builder in SE Michigan. I need all bulletin board info I
can get. Please help me contact the RV builder list. Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bennett" <bennett(at)healey.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Ascii graphics. |
Hey, thanks Richard.
I've been wondering why people have been signing off with
unintelligible shrapnel.
Peter
> If you're going to attempt to draw a schematic or brief illustration using
> dashes, underscores, slashes and such, please DON'T use tabs to make the blank
> spaces. Tabs are open to interpretation by one's mail reader. Some make them
> 5 spaces, others 8 or 10. It's guaranteed to garble your graphic. If you
> need to make a lot of blank space in your pictures, use good old ordinary
> spaces.
>
>
> --
> "Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
> scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
> -- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
> "Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Who's RV-6A - N37RH |
>At Sun & Fun I took some pictures of a great RV-6A that was white with
yellow and red
>striping. My son's head is in the way of the N # in the photo's, but I
believe it is N37RH.
>Does anyone know who this beauty belongs to and if they are on the list?
>
>
>
I have some video of his "prop tag" (is that what one calls the information
card attached to the props at fly-ins?). E-mail me privately and i'll get
the info off the video. Beautiful plane btw.
Rob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Chatter Repitched Propellors |
Marcus;
I'm on my 4th tach, haven't found one within 125 rpm yet. One was a full 260
rpm off. (yes, I got those that were for the 2350-2550 cruise range) I'm
using a PropTach to check for accuracy. Even after checking the PropTach
for accuracy (both their method and cross ck with the FBOs elect. tach) the
PropTach is accurate, the installed tachs are Very inaccurate by my experience.
If I were starting over, I would get one of the elec. tachs to start with.
John D
>
> Gee, my 172 tach is off 120 rpm. It's worth checking these things...
>
> Marcus Barrow
> barrow(at)zk3.dec.com
>
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Air & Space Network |
Hi Folks,
Thought you might be interested. The latest issue of The Experimenter
has an article about a new web site and upcoming 24-hour TV channel for
Air & Space. I suggest you visit the web site and get the info:
http://airspacemag.com/airspacetvnet
Hope this is OK for RV group material
Bill Costello
--
___ _____________________________
\ \ _ _ / /
\ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello Chicago \
X-*#####*******......./ N97WC (reserved) /
o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on left elev. \
\__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com /
\____________________________\
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New subscriber |
Tom Craig-St. ( with appologies to the rest of the list)
I've tried to mail you direct many ways, but it always bounces. If you
would, please contact me direct. Reason: I'm past CO of the 45 (69-71) and
of LAFB (71-73), would like to ask some questions about it if you have the
time and inclination.
John D
>John,
>Yes, indeed, I am stationed in the glorious garden spot of Laughlin AFB,
>TX. I want out at the earliest possible moment. And my first class
>airplane is costing me more than I anticipated, though I think it will be
>worth it.
>
>Regards,
>Tom Craig-Stearman
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re:12 / 24 volt dual system - help please... |
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: Finn Lassen, INTERNET:finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com
DATE: 5/10/96 8:04 PM
RV-List: 12 / 24 volt dual system - help please...
I can think of a couple of options: if possible put each of two equal
big power comsuming items (e.g. landing lights if you have two) in
series and run off 24 Volts, and only run low amp consuming items off
12 volts (i.e. the one battery).
Problem is that the landing lights have to be ON all the time
in order to provide "balancing" for the low current loads.
Another option is to put your 2 batteries in parallel, and get a DC-DC
converter (12 -> 24 Volts) that can deliver sufficient amperage to
supply your radio stack (driving a separate 24V bus for the radio stack
only.).
YES!
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | RE: 12/24 volt dual system |
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: Greg Bordelon, INTERNET:greg(at)brokersys.com
DATE: 5/10/96 6:19 PM
Bob your recommendation is to install a primary a 12 volt system. Then =
use a DC to DC converter to power the radios which include two nav/coms =
and transponder. I am familiar with step down voltage converters but not =
step up converters. A step up converter would require an active =
oscillator circuit, coil system and rectifier. These are usually limited =
to low current applications. I guess we need to find out the current =
draw of all the 24 volt devices and size the converter appropriately. =
Would you please provide additional information such as supplier, cost, =
amperage capacity and possibly recommend a unit based upon experience.
Thanks
Greg Bordelon
Greg,
You are correct in than an oscillator and some inductive components
are requried but a little out of touch with avaiable technologies.
I've built DC to DC converters, both step up and step down in the
range of 100 milliwatts to over 1 kilowatt. Useful techniques
in solid state solutions have been around for about 30 years but
in the past 10, high efficiency switchmode supplies operating an
the 100 KHz to 1 MHz range have predominated. As a general rule,
step down is a LITTLE easier than step up but either is no big deal.
Given that your HEAVY loads (landing lights, nav lights, pitot heat)
are low voltage, a 14-28 volt step up for the radios is in order.
Get me a list of all your radios and let's size the task.
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking longerons |
On Fri, 10 May 1996 tcraig-stearman(at)laugate1.lau.aetc.af.mil wrote:
> About countersinking the longerons:
>
> Hey fellas, am I missing something here? On my RV-4 turtledeck, I machine
> countersunk the longeron and dimpled the side and top skins. I can't see
> any other way to join two thin skins to an eigth-inch longeron.
A couple of other people have asked a similar question here. The answer
is in the RV-6 construction manual.
First, the section discussing the F-673 aft side skins:
"Normally, lap jointed skins share all of the same holes and rivets.
In this instance, because of the considerable time lap between
removal from the jig and final riveting of the lap joint of the
side and top skins, the upper edge of skin F-673 will be drilled and
final riveted during the jig stage of construction. However the
riveting is considered temporary and the rivet spacing is 3"
nominal so that the final 1" spaced rivet pattern will interface
with it."
Then, in the section discussing the rear top fuselage skin:
"Remember that there is already a row of rivets attaching the
F-673 rear side skins to the upper longerons. The rivet hole
pattern drilled through F-675 where it overlaps this longeron
should take this into account. If the hidden row of rivets
were uniformly spaced at multiples of one inch increments,
(such as 3" spacing) the specified one inch spaceing of this
rivet line should automatically coincide without interfering
with any of the existing hidden rivets. SInce the F-675 skin
is only .025 thick it will need to be dimple countersunk. The
longeron/side skin buildup must be machine countersunk to
accept the dimples."
IMHO, I see no reason why not, prior to riveting the F_673 side skins,
one could not drill all the holes in the longeron and F-673 side skins 1"
spacing, countersink the longeron, dimple the F-673 skin, but install
only every third rivet. Then when installing the F-675 aft top skin,
backdrill through the remaining holes.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
skinning the fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelli Lewis/Michael Kosta <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Canopy-Rivets or screws?? |
>
>>BTW, I used silicone RTV for sealing. Be sure to make the holes in the
>>plastic
>>oversized either way. Hope this helps. Mel Barlow, N114RV, IJD,
>
>How much oversized?
>Ed Bundy
>
Ed: This is and area that I could never get a straight answer: how big the
holes?? I modified 1/8 and 5/32 bits by polishing off the outter cutting
shoulder. In trying the bit that were MADE for plexiglass, I was not happy
with the occasional chip that occured on the back side as the drill went
through. Try out the bits on the edge scrap first.
I then started with the 1/8" with my slow rechargable hand held and then to
the 5/32". I then hand countersunk front and back with the deburring tool
and THEN (maybe overkill but MAN those holes look nice) polished the whole
hole (!) with a small stone on the Dremmel tool. The canopy has been
screwed/clecoed in place in -15 to 90 degree temps with no stress signs seen.
Be too finicky when it comes to finishing the cut edge; I did mine with a
small cutting disk on the Dremmel which was easier than trying to slob
around a hand drill and that concrete cutting disk that comes with the
canopy. I then polished the bejebers out of it to avoid cr---s (we don't
say that word around the canopy) from the edge.
I am about to pop the sucker on for good and am going to go with
rivets....except for two holes that got a little out of control which will
be screws.
Michael RV-4 Fly By July
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelli Lewis/Michael Kosta <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Canopy- What size holes????? |
>
>>BTW, I used silicone RTV for sealing. Be sure to make the holes in the
>>plastic
>>oversized either way. Hope this helps. Mel Barlow, N114RV, IJD,
>
>How much oversized?
>Ed Bundy
>
Ed: This was one of the hardest things ti find out about the canopy: noone
wanted to commit to the size holes.
Here's what I did: I use 2 bits I modified by polishing off the outter
shoulder of the front cutting edge, 1/4" and 5/32". I have some bits that
were made to drill plexiglass but, in trying them on scrap canopy edge, I
was not happy with the chipping that occured on the back side of the hole.
I started with the 1/4" and my slow rechargable hand drill, then enlarged
the holes to 5/32". Then I hand beveled the holes with my deburring tool
and THEN (maybe overkill but MAN those holes look nice) polished the whole
hole (!) with a small stone grinder on my Dremmel tool. Both the rivets and
screws fit nicely.
It has been temporarily screwed/clecoed to the frame from -15 to 90 degrees
and shows no signs of stress. I am about to pop the sucker on for good and
can see some of the holes will need to be bigger (for better allignment with
the frame holes) which I will probably do with the Dremmel. I guess one of
the keys is not to melt the -glass as you drill it. Also: over-do finishing
the cut edge of the canopy to make sure no stress cr---s (we don't say that
word out loud aroud the canopy) occur from the edge.
I think I'll put mine on with rivets except where 2 holes got a little big
in the frame: they'll be screws.
Michael RV-4, Fly By July
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE) |
| Subject: | Re: Stab Skin Trim |
>
>I trimmed the root end with my trusty Sears router. This was the
first
>time I used a router on metal (with much trepidation) and it worked
like a
>charm.
>
>-----
>Bill Pace Life is not so much an adventure
>wbpace(at)adnc.com as it is a paycheck.
>(also wbpace(at)aol.com)
>
Bill,
I've been considering the use of a router, what type of bit did you
use??
ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
Ed Cole 24430
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chinkley(at)ix.netcom.com (Curtis R. Hinkley ) |
The AVWeb database list N37RH as a RV6A and it is Owned by:
Robert B. Hunter
301 Averyville Rd
Lack Placid, NY 12946
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <74774.54(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | RV6 Spar Help!!! |
I am trying to build my own spar and have the following problem:
Good news.. One side of spar, all strips fit nicely
Bad news .. The other side will not line up well enough to put rivets through
both sides (doubler and Spar)
I have stacked the strips together and all holes line up so that should not be
a
problem. It appears the spreader bars are pushing out about 1/16th of an inch
too far. I can get about half way to the root before I can not push in any
further to make the holes line up.
My choices seem to be to: A) drill out the offending spreader bars and grind
them down (suggested by Van's)
B) Line up holes as tight as possible and elongate
doubler and spar holes to fit. (Not recommended
by
Van's)
C) Not a clue...
Anyone been here and if so what to do????
Any help would be appreciated
Rick
Minnesota
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Contact for Boeing Surplus |
>Hi Folks,
>
>A number of times in the past when I heard some of you tell about the
>great buys you got at Boeing Surplus, I have sighed and wished that I
>had the opportunity to browse and shop there.
>
>Well, a month or so back Peter Mortensen sent an email to the group
>saying that he would be glad to pick up from Boeing some tools, etc for
>any member who wanted any at slightly more than his cost, which, with
>shipping, is still VERY much less than you can get things most other
>places.
>
>I took Peter up on it and 'ordered' several extra cleco pliers, various
>drills, mushroom and offset rivet sets and the like. I have received
>them and am really pleased with the bargains. For example, the drills
>neck up at the chuck end to about 1/4 or 3/8 inch. They seem to be
>much more stable and ride 'truer' in my Makita portable drill than my
>thin drills.
>
>Anyhow, without making this too long, if you would like to see what is
>available and get some stuff at great bargains, I recommend you contact
>Peter Mortensen directly at
> n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com
>
>Best regards,
>Bill Costello
>--
>
> ___ _____________________________
> \ \ _ _ / /
> \ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello Chicago \
> X-*#####*******......./ N97WC (reserved) /
> o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on left elev. \
> \__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com /
> \____________________________\
>
>
>
Bill,
Now you've done it. Everybody will know how we can build our RV's so
easily. I'm going to have to talk to Peter. He wasn't supposed to tell you
how valuable Boeing surplus is to the Puget Sound RVator builders.
Seriously, if you or any other builders want to save a bunch of bucks and
need wire for your RV, our EAA chapter has a lot of wire for sale. We're
selling it for $1.00/Pound plus shipping.
I checked the price of 2 gauge aircraft wire in Aircraft Spruce. Our price
is 10% of what they are charging. We have wire sizes from 2 to 22 gauge,
both single and multiconductor. If you're interested in any particular wire
e-mail me with your needs and I'll go out to my hangar and see what we have.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Spar Help!!! |
>I am trying to build my own spar and have the following problem:
>
> Good news.. One side of spar, all strips fit nicely
> Bad news .. The other side will not line up well enough to put rivets through
>both sides (doubler and Spar)
>
>I have stacked the strips together and all holes line up so that should not
be a
>problem. It appears the spreader bars are pushing out about 1/16th of an inch
>too far. I can get about half way to the root before I can not push in any
>further to make the holes line up.
>
>My choices seem to be to: A) drill out the offending spreader bars and grind
>them down (suggested by Van's)
> B) Line up holes as tight as possible and elongate
>doubler and spar holes to fit. (Not recommended
by
>Van's)
> C) Not a clue...
>
>Anyone been here and if so what to do????
>
>Any help would be appreciated
>
>Rick
>Minnesota
>
>
You really don't have any choice but door number 'a'. If you were to
elongate any of the holes the rivets would not upset enough to fill the
hole. You could drill new holes but do you really want to do that. What
would the old holes be then; 'lightening' holes?? Drilling out the
spreaders shouldn't be too much trouble. I know that I would feel more
comfortable with a _strong_ spar, not one that might be strong enough.
Get out the drill and remove the spreader bars.
BTW, Rick, (and lots of other people) please put your e-mail address in your
signature. It makes it much easier to reply directly to the sender.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)crl.com> |
I'm also getting close to the point of having to make the conical bend in
the side skins, and the part *i* was wondering most about is the
attachment of the cone's aft edge to the F673 skins. the aft end of the
cone does not look like it will lay flat against the F673 skins, it is at
an angle. I can think of two things:
1. notch F673 to create 'tabs' (that happen to match the 'tabs' of the
bulkhead flange at that point), and bend the tabs up a little, providing
a flat mating surface for the aft end of the cone. (I saw this technique
in an old RVAtor)
2. Work the aft end of the cone, stretching it a little and bending it up
so it lays flush against F673.
SUggestions anyone?
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: 12/24 volt dual system |
Bob responded to Greg....
> Given that your HEAVY loads (landing lights, nav lights, pitot heat)
> are low voltage, a 14-28 volt step up for the radios is in order.
> Get me a list of all your radios and let's size the task.
> Regards,
> Bob . . .
> AeroElectric Connection
Hi Bob, Rob Lee here, - Gregs BIG helper....
Many thanks for the advice up to now, I will certainly go with what you
are suggesting since you have more electrical experience than I have in drinking
draft Guinness (not a small total I assure you!!)
I already looked for a suitable step-up converter, but haven't found anything
yet - I checked my allied catalog anyway. I have also accepted the fact that I
will have to change the 24V alternator for a 12v model, but no big deal these
days in this era of " one wire" alternators.
Details on the present 24V components of N517RL are as follows:
two RT385A nav com radios with one vor and one vor/gs indicator
(plus the GS receiver.)
one RT859A transponder
one cessna audio panel/Marker beacon indicator and Marker Beacon receiver.
one Turn and bank (can be run on 12 v if needed)
one intercom (can also be made to run on 12v)
one tiny little JC whitney digital voltmeter/stopwatch
one solid state dimmer for the stack.
If you could reccommend a source and model for the 12->24 v converter (s) I will
be
eternally gratefull, and will owe you several of the above mentioned draft
Guinnessess! (or whatever).
Many thanks in advance
Rob Lee - FAA inspection on Tuesday, first flight shortly thereafter!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
I stretched mine with a body hammer and dolly and it lays down perfectly with
a nice smooth transition to the aft skin. If you don't do this you will have
an abrupt change in the skin which will translate into drag! Drag reduction
is free airspeed and lower fuel consumption. Drag reduction also gives you
the most bang for the buck, especially considering the cost of extra horses
and the fuel to feed them. That is why I went to so much trouble to make
real fiberglass fairings for the wings and empennage. I also expect to get
some benefit from the main gear leg fairings and wheel pant fairings that I
designed. I just finished laying up a very nice nose gear leg fairing that
actually fairs the leg/cowl intersection and makes lower cowl installation
much easier. I will have pictures and descriptions of this and my cowl flap
design in my next issue of Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing newsletter. While
on the subject of drag reduction, I found that you can align the boarding
steps much easier if you just line up the leg and step with the local wind
and ignore the mounting plate that does not fit to the fuselage. After you
have the leg aligned, take a hammer and anvil and shape the mount plate to
fit the contour of the fuselage before you drill it. Mine is compound curved
and fits perfectly flat with the skin on all sides. Again, less drag for the
cost of a few hammer blows. It looks nicer too.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
Only the canopy to fit and I'm ready to paint.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dick Slavens <aero(at)napanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Chatter Repitched Propellors |
John Darby wrote:
> John,
I also have had the same problems with Mech. Tach.s in my Cessna.
What I did was put velcro on the bottom of the PropTech, and mounted it in
the top center of the panel. Works great with long battery life, during
the daytime.
Dick Slavens aero(at)napanet.net
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Marcus;
> I'm on my 4th tach, haven't found one within 125 rpm yet. One was a full 260
> rpm off. (yes, I got those that were for the 2350-2550 cruise range) I'm
> using a PropTach to check for accuracy. Even after checking the PropTach
> for accuracy (both their method and cross ck with the FBOs elect. tach) the
> PropTach is accurate, the installed tachs are Very inaccurate by my experience.
> If I were starting over, I would get one of the elec. tachs to start with.
> John D
>
> John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
> johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amsteve(at)limestone.kosone.com (a stevenson) |
Can anyone tell me what they used to safely clean the stubborn film left
behind on Van's canopies after you peel off the protective plastic film?
Regular glass cleaner does not seem to touch it.... Suggestions are welcome.
Al Stevenson 6-A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Engine monitor, was - Repitched Propellors |
Hi All,
With the recent comments on tach accuracy I thought it was time to speak up......
Since I've now had this thing up and running, I thought I should share my experience
of the Grand Rapids Technologies Engine information system. Firstly, I think it
is a
great instrument, at a good price. It really saves a bunch of panel space being
only
4 1/2 wide by 2 3/4 tall, enough in fact to allow me to have a "glove box" in the
panel on a full IFR bird.
Installation was easy and straight forward, and support from Greg at the "factory"
was
excellent. Included in the features of this instrument is the digital electronic
tach
function, which I have connected to both mags via a small selector switch. This
allows
me to read the output of either mag, and also gives a fine safety check to verify
if a
mag has become "HOT" - (if its gone "hot" there is no readout from that when the
engine is running.) I also installed a mechanical Tach, and yup... its low on N517RL
by about 120rpm....
Other features of the instrument besides the tach (model advanced EIS-A) are:
Dual CHT* Oil pressure
Dual EGT* OAT
Oil Temp Flight time
Voltmeter Hour meter
Manifold pressure Backlit
*-or either 4 egt/4cht
No, I don't work for or have any interest in GRT, but I like the product, and the
price, and I'm just passing on MHO for what it's worth.
Price was about $420 for the instrument plus around $150 for the various
probes/accessories. - a good deal for < $600 total !! - and I think much less
than the sum of even cheapie individual gauges and probes.
GRT is at 616-531-4893 - Enjoy!
Rob Lee
av8r(at)hic.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stab Skin Trim |
I think Hovan's home page still has the info you're looking for.
I use a 1/8' HSS bit. They work great, but don't last very long.
Chris
> I've been considering the use of a router, what type of bit did you
> use??
> ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
> Ed Cole 24430
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Bob,
Sorry for not getting back sooner. I try to keep 35 psi in my tires. I
double checked, and my tire wear is on the inside.
Rick McBride
RICKRV6(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | 12/24 volt dual system |
>Hi Bob, Rob Lee here, - Gregs BIG helper....
>Many thanks for the advice up to now, I will certainly go with what you
>are suggesting since you have more electrical experience than I have in drinking
>draft Guinness (not a small total I assure you!!)
>I already looked for a suitable step-up converter, but haven't found anything
>yet - I checked my allied catalog anyway.
DC to DC converters are not much of a catalog item . . at least compared
to the gross numbers of options out there. Further, depending on how
hand you are with a center punch and soldering iron, you may elect to build
one.
>I have also accepted the fact that I will have to change the 24V alternator for
a
>12v model, but no big deal these days in this era of " one wire" alternators.
I would avoid one-wire alternators . . . . they're a smoked electrical system
waiting to happen. Rare to be sure but the easiest designs to do ASSUME the
worst about EVERY part and plan for a backup. The goal is to make a RELIABLE
system out of parts with relatively unknown RELIABILITY . . see Sport Aviation
6/94 p 83, 7/94/ p 80, 12/93 p68, 2/93 p80.
>Details on the present 24V components of N517RL are as follows:
two RT385A nav com radios with one vor and one vor/gs indicator
>(plus the GS receiver.) one RT859A transponder one cessna audio
>panel/Marker beacon indicator and Marker Beacon receiver,
>Turn and bank (can be run on 12 v if needed) one intercom
>(can also be made to run on 12v)
>one tiny little JC whitney digital voltmeter/stopwatch
>one solid state dimmer for the stack.
Looks like a converter with a about 2 amps continuous with
a 5 amp intermittant duty would do fine. This is done by
building a 125 watt unit with 50 watt heat sinking. Let
me dig around a bit at see what I can come up with. Are
you the least bit interested in building? Further, if this
is an IFR airplane, would dual converters be a good idea.
DO check those radios . . at some point in time, most of
the solid state radios became 12/24 compatible by making
changes to a wire harness . . . just because a radio may
have come out of a 24 v airplane doesn't necessarily
mean it cannot be used in a 12 volt one.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | F-694A - Stab gap filler |
I am fitting the stab fiberglass fairing (yuck, fiberglass), and started
looking at the F-694A that fills the gap between the stab and the longeron on
the -6 and -6A.
Is there any reason why it can't just be rivited on instead of drilling and
tapping screws? I might make it out of .032 instead of .025 to avoid
bending it while the stab is off for the next few months. Would use csk -3
rivets, dimple the filler and csk into the skin/longeron.
Bruce Patton
Fitting fiberglass and hating it!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | I really really hate to do this. |
I started lurking on this list a few months ago when I was considering
building an RV. I eventually chose the 8 and took delivery of one of
the first kits from Vans. I'm now at the stage where I'm "primer
constrained" meaning that I've assembled and drilled the front and rear
spars for the HS and if I were to be able to primer them, I could then
rivet them and move on. I went out and bought a spray gun and
respirator, and have built a small paint booth. I've seen a thousand
warnings about the "primer discussion" which must have raged on for a
long time, but since I don't have access to any archives, I'm going to
just have to ask again: how do I prime the interior surfaces/skeleton
of my RV?
I went to an IA friend of mine and asked him about what kind of
corrosion protection to use. He uses a 3 step process of alumaprep,
alodyne, and 2 part epoxy primer. He mentioned though, to be careful
about alumaprep because it etches so fast. He buys all his material
directly through a major airline so he wasn't much help in terms of
local (Seattle) suppliers.
Since I live in a rainy climate, and want to keep this airplane
forever, what is the current, common method of RV priming? Also, what
are the common Seattle area distributors for the products? I
understand that there is often a big problem getting these chemicals
shipped so it's best to buy them locally.
If you like, you can just reply to me (mikeang(at)microsoft.com) and I'll
post a compilation of the responses.
Thanks,
-Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Japundza <bob(at)holli.com> |
| Subject: | gear leg fairings |
Has anyone had any success with the foam filled gear leg fairings from
Jerry Harrold?
I am debating whether or not I should make the gear leg stiffeners per
plans, which is to bond wood moulding with fiberglass around the front
of the gear. I have heard that the foam filled legs do not hold up over
time. I will use the fiberglass fairings no matter what, but I am
concerned with what goes inside them.
Thoughts, anyone?
Bob Japundza
Trying to make it to OSH with my 6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: gear leg fairings |
Bob Japundza wrote:
>
> Has anyone had any success with the foam filled gear leg fairings from
> Jerry Harrold?
>
> I am debating whether or not I should make the gear leg stiffeners per
> plans, which is to bond wood moulding with fiberglass around the front
> of the gear. I have heard that the foam filled legs do not hold up over
> time. I will use the fiberglass fairings no matter what, but I am
> concerned with what goes inside them.
>
> Thoughts, anyone?
>
> Bob Japundza
> Trying to make it to OSH with my 6
Bob
I have had Jerry Harrolds fiberglass fairings on my RV-6 for
about 4 years and have not had any problems of any kind, they
have stood the test of time as far as I am concerned. You will
want to primer your gear legs with a good rust inhibator
primer such as *Hammerite* (The two part foam can attack some
primers and cause the gear legs to rust) before fitting the wood
stiffners and wrapping them with fiberglass. You do need the wood
stiffners even with the fiberglass fairings. I've done it both
ways with and without the wood, ground handleing is 100% better
with the the wood stiffners.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First Flight July 14, 1989 :-)
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
>2. Work the aft end of the cone, stretching it a little and bending it up
>so it lays flush against F673.
>
>SUggestions anyone?
>
>Best Regards,
>Dave Barnhart
>rv-6 sn 23744
>
Dave; with a small hammer and the cone of a vise, a little patience, and you
can work it to flare out just right. If I did it, I'm sure ant one can and
the results actually look good.
I flared out about 3/8 of an inch and it fit good.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tach. Inaccuracy |
>> John,
>I also have had the same problems with Mech. Tach.s in my Cessna.
>What I did was put velcro on the bottom of the PropTech, and mounted it in
>the top center of the panel. Works great with long battery life, during
>the daytime.
>Dick Slavens aero(at)napanet.net
>
Dick;
That's where I keep mine, next to the vert. comp. Only thing, at times the
pilot seems to forget to turn it off, hence the installed elec. would be
more atuned to the oddities of the prime pilot.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mel Barlow (IJD, Ct.)" <102636.54(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Spar Help!!! |
On 5-11-96 at 14:13, Rick in Minnesota wrote that he was having trouble with
rivet hole alignment in his spar pieces.
Rick: It appears that you may have drilled the spar reinforcing strips without
having the spreader bars clecoed in place? Now with the spreader bars riveted
on, the reinforcing strips are displaced by the ends of the spreader bars? If
this is the case, I see NO alternative than to remove the spreader bars and
shorten them so everything fits correctly. IMHO, any other "solution" is not a
solution. Remember, this is the most important assembly in your whole airplane.
Accept no compromises that could degrade it's capability.
As far as drilling out the rivets holding the bars on, it should be a piece of
cake. Here is the method I have used:
To drill out the AN470-AD-4 rivets, use a new 7/64 drill and start a hole in the
manufactured head (which should be against the spar web). Once the hole is
started, stop and check that the hole is concentric with the outside of the
rivet head angle your drill over to bring the hole into concentricity if req'd.
Drill down to the intersection of the head and pin section of the rivet; no
deeper! Use an old 7/64 drill to insert into the blind hole and break off the
head of the rivet. The bars should practically fall off once the rivet heads are
removed this way. The holes in the spar web should not be damaged at all if this
technique is used. Good luck, and hope this helps!
Mel Barlow, Ct. 102636.54(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mel Barlow (IJD, Ct.)" <102636.54(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Canopy-Rivets or screws?? |
On 5-11-96 Ed Bundy asked "how much oversized should the holes in the plexiglass
canopy be". Sorry I didn't include that it of info on my first post. reason was,
I couldn't remember! Since then, I've found a ref. to the same question in my
old RV-ators. In Dec. 1986, a good explanation of the relative benefits and
pitfalls of the screws vs pop rivets is given. The pop rivet used is the AK 44
BS aluminum rivet. The article recommends a 3/16 Dia. hole for the 1/8th Dia.
rivet. The oversized hole is machine countersunk to accept the dimpled 1/8 hole
in the canopy skin. I guess the sequence would be to first drill the canopy
skin, canopy and tubular frame with 1/8" holes, then disassemble and deburr &
dimple the skin, c-sink the canopy, then open the canopy holes to 3/16". The
same article shows the alternative Rivnut/AN-507-632R8 machine screw
arrangement. Hope this helps.
Mel BArlow, RV-4 Flying since '88, 102636.54(at)Compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 12/24 volt dual system |
Bob replied ....
> Looks like a converter with a about 2 amps continuous with
> a 5 amp intermittant duty would do fine. This is done by
> building a 125 watt unit with 50 watt heat sinking. Let
> me dig around a bit at see what I can come up with. Are
> you the least bit interested in building? Further, if this
> is an IFR airplane, would dual converters be a good idea.
Bob, I would be very interested in building - Greg is in fact somewhat of a
pro with a soldering iron - but as to how to.... I wouldn't know where to
start without the input from folks like you... also, yes I would build 2,
for the redundancy factor.
> DO check those radios . . at some point in time, most
> of the solid state radios became 12/24 compatible by making
> changes to a wire harness . . . just because a radio may
> have come out of a 24 v airplane doesn't necessarily
> mean it cannot be used in a 12 volt one.
Not these ones Bob, that was the first thing I looked at when I got them..
- so I guess it will be the convertor route. If you have some circuit
diagrams/parts lists both Greg and I would appreciate the help.
> Bob . . .
> AeroElectric Connection
Thanks Bob
Rob Lee, N517RL, av8r(at)hic.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
You don't end up with creases if you round the corners of the clamping boards
and it is much easier to bend if you do it like the directions or the video.
George had it right except that he did it with boards with sharp edges.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine monitor, was - Repitched Propellors |
The Rocky Mtn. engine monitor is accurate to 2 RPM. It reads out in 10 RPM
increments just to keep the display from jumping around so much. That should
help keep you from running the RPM in the danger zone and get full power from
the engine if the vibration node is really at 2750 RPM.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 12/24 volt dual system |
The Pelican Alternators sold by ACS have a built-in voltage regulator and
overheat protection that shuts off the altenator if it gets too hot and
resets automatically when it cools down. It puts out 65 amps and is very
small and light weight. This altenator is out of a Chevy Sprint Spectrum if
you have a junk yard nearby. That would be cheaper if you don't mind making
the mount. It mounts easily with a simple adaptor to the Lycoming. You can
make one without any welding out of 1/4" bar stock.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Nuckolls in Portland |
Hey folks! I'm now scheduled to do a weekend seminar in Portland on July 13-14.
Yes, I KNOW it's the same weekend as Arlington but . . . well . . . what can I
say?
Just think of all the money you'll save by coming to Portland instead! Here's
the scoop. . . .
The AeroElectric Connection Presents:
A Weekend in Portland
with
Bob Nuckolls
Engineer, Teacher, Author and Publisher of Electrical Systems Information
Texts for Amateur Airplane Builders.
Over 35 years experience with certified aircraft systems design and fabrication.
Publisher of the AeroElectric Connection: The definitive work in amateur
built aircraft electrical systems. 1000+ readers for over 9 years.
Your participation in this seminar will save you many hours and dollars in the
development, procurement of materials and installation of a modern, light
weight and reliable electrical system in your airplane.
Schedule For Saturday, July 13
9:00 - 11:30 morning session:
Failure Mode Effects Analysis - Confidence by Design
DC Power Fundamentals - Understanding "the Force"
Batteries
Engine Driven Power Sources
Voltage Regulators
Break for lunch (provided)
12:30-5:00 Afternoon Session
Grounding
Over Voltage Protection
Electrical System Instrumentation
Wire Selection and Installation
Wire Termination and Connectors
Circuit Protection
Switches Relays and Contactors
Schedule for Sunday, July 14
8:00-8:30 Continental Breakfast (provided)
8:30-12:00 morning session:
Lighting and Lighting Controls
Antennas and Feedlines
Engine Instrumentation
Tools, Wiring Techniques and Parts Selection Philosophy
Open Question and Answers Session
Door prize drawing
Door prizes include a GPS2000 receiver by Magellan (Approx value $200)
and 4 other drawings for winner's choice of (1) book and 1-year
subscription to the AeroElectric Connection (2) ratchet handled
crimping tool for red-blue-yellow terminals or (3) custom power
distribution diagram and one update (Approx value $45 each). There
will be some other goodies to give away from various vendors . . .
as yet to be announced. . .
Accomodations:
The Best Wester Heritage Inn, 4319 N.W. Yeon, is offering discounted
accommodations for this event. Call (503) 497-9044 and tell them you
are attending the AeroElectric Connection Seminar.
Meeting Place:
Mount Hood meeting room in Montgomery Park, 2701 N.W. Nicolai Street,
Portland, Oregon.
Make Your Reservations Now!
There is a great deal of advance planning associated with organizing
this program. We need to reserve a facility big enough to handle everyone
we think will attend. A minimum number of attendees are necessary to
offset travel and facilities expenses. Seating will be limited. Your bancard
will not be charged nor your check deposited until the week before the
seminar when it's a done deal!
__________________________________________________________________________
Yes, I'd like to spend a weekend with Bob Nuckolls in Portland!
Enclosed please find my check in the amount of $75.00
Charge my Visa/MasterCard
|___|___|___|___| |___|___|___|___| |___|___|___|___| |___|___|___|___|
Which Expires |___|___| |___|___|
Name _____________________________________________
Address ___________________________________________
City ___________________ State____ Zip ______________
Day phone ( )______________ FAX __________________
Evening Phone ( )___________ E-Mail Address___________________________
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Satisfaction Guarantee . . .
All products and services from the AeroElectric Connection are offered with an
assurance ofsatisfaction. If you don't believe the seminar was worth $75,
then let me know how much you believe it was worth and I'll write you a check
for the difference before you leave!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wbpace(at)adnc.com (Bill Pace) |
| Subject: | Re: Stab Skin Trim |
> I think Hovan's home page still has the info you're looking for.
>I use a 1/8' HSS bit. They work great, but don't last very long.
>
> Chris
>
>
>> I've been considering the use of a router, what type of bit did you
>> use??
>> ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
>> Ed Cole 24430
>>
I use a 1/4" carbide bit. I have used the HSS bit in my Dremel tool and
agree with Chris that HSS does not seem to last very long. So far the
carbide bit doesn't show any unusual wear.
The URL for Hovan's page on Aluminum Cutting is :
http://atlantis.austin.apple.com/people.pages/jhovan/tips/AlumCut.html
-----
Bill Pace Life is not so much an adventure
wbpace(at)adnc.com as it is a paycheck.
(also wbpace(at)aol.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PatK(at)gnn.com (Patrick Kelley) |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Spar Help!!! |
Any chance you installed the spreader bars upside down? The engraving goes
aft and up; if you get it wrong it could have the effect you talk about. I
hope you haven't riveted them in yet. I assembled the entire spar with bolts
and clecoes before setting a single rivet to be sure it was all assembled
properly...
PatK - RV-6A - Spars almost riveted together
>Date: 11 May 96 13:18:38 EDT
>From: Rick Osgood <CompuServe.COM!74774.54(at)matronics.com>
>Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: RV-List
>Subject: RV-List: RV6 Spar Help!!!
>
>I am trying to build my own spar and have the following problem:
>
> Good news.. One side of spar, all strips fit nicely
> Bad news .. The other side will not line up well enough to put rivets
> through
>both sides (doubler and Spar)
>
>I have stacked the strips together and all holes line up so that should
> not be a
>problem. It appears the spreader bars are pushing out about 1/16th of an
> inch
>too far. I can get about half way to the root before I can not push in any
>further to make the holes line up.
>
>My choices seem to be to: A) drill out the offending spreader bars and
> grind
>them down (suggested by Van's)
> B) Line up holes as tight as possible and elongate
>doubler and spar holes to fit. (Not recommended
by
>Van's)
> C) Not a clue...
>
>Anyone been here and if so what to do????
>
>Any help would be appreciated
>
>Rick
>Minnesota
PatK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
> have worried about leaving nuts loose. I have been using the bright red
>inspection laquer from Averys since the beginning of the project. Every
>bolt that is tourqed gets a dab of this on to show me it has been tighted.
>
>Ross Mickey
>
>
>
Red fingernail polish works well also. You can get it locally (drugstore) and
there's no shipping charge!
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PatK(at)gnn.com (Patrick Kelley) |
| Subject: | Cc: rv-list(at)matronics.com |
Welcome, Warren. If you are near the Ann Arbor area, or Willow Run, contact
me and we can discuss aircraft.
PatK - RV-6A - Spars almost riveted together
>From: prodigy.com!Warren_Branscomb(at)matronics.com ( WARREN BRANSCOMB)
>Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: RVLIST(at)matronics.com
>
>I am an RV6 builder in SE Michigan. I need all bulletin board info I
>can get. Please help me contact the RV builder list. Thanks.
PatK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gasobek(at)CCGATE.HAC.COM |
Please be advised that Glen Whiteley passed away in his hangar on
Friday, May 10, 1996. Glen built a blue RV-4 in the early 80's. It
was one of the first to fly in the Los Angeles basin. Glen has
inspired and helped many RV builders. He has helped almost everyone
at Cable Airport. He regularly put aside his own projects to help
other RV builders Glen is survived by 4 sons. I and everyone at
Cable Airport extend their deepest sympathy to Glen's family and
friends. A missing RV fly by will take place on Saturday, May 18,
1996.
Gary A. Sobek
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAllen6526(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for a finished RV-4 |
Try contacting Dennis at 9099823793. He has an RV4 already built but not
flown that is for sale.
Sorry to the group for posting this on the board. I couln't figure out the
direct eMail address.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking longerons |
>It sure would be nice if someone from Van's would
>monitor this group and post something to set the record straight!
If I were a manufacturer watching the messages from a group like this, I am
not sure there would be enough Tagamet and Tums in the world to help my
stomach....
Denny
________________________________________________________________________________
Here's a shot in the dark since I know that everybody on this list is looking
for the same thing that I am. But, I might as well leave no stone unturned,
so here goes.
1] Wanted: Lycoming 0-360 engine, preferably A1A with wide deck pistons.
Also prefer mid-time but of course, that is a matter of price. (please, no
prop strike victims)
2] Also wanted to buy:
Radio
Transponder
GPS with map
assorted flight and engine instruments
etc...
(must be in top notch condition)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Instrument quality? |
I am starting to plan my panel and have noticed a tremendous variations in
prices of instruments. I know from my ultralight experience that Westach
products are low quality, inaccurate and inconsistant. I don't use them in my
UL and of course, I won't in my RV-6A. But even without Westach, there still
seems to be many variations.
For example, Van sells a brand called Isspro. Are these of reasonable
quality. (In fact is it prudent to assume that anything listed in Van's
catalog is good quality)
Aircraft Spruce sells Rochester and Mitchell brands. Rochester is twice the
price. Any comments?
All those digital instruments and graphic analysers are also of interest but
of corse are quite pricey. I don't really care about all those flashing
lights, but if this equipment is really the only way to get honest and
consistent readings I would consider them. Again, any comments?
In other words, even the most expensive instruments are cheap when you
consider the value of what they are telling you; but at what point are you
paying mostly for glitter and flashing lights as opposed to the accuracy of
the information?
Andy Gold
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dyer(at)edlmail.jsc.nasa.gov (Terry ) |
unsuscribe dyer(at)edlmail.jsc.nasa.gov
Terry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
How is finger nail polish to remove? More than once I have undonea
"finished" piece and the inspection stuff from Avery peels off quite well as
it is like a liquid rubber.
Ross
>
>> have worried about leaving nuts loose. I have been using the bright red
>>inspection laquer from Averys since the beginning of the project. Every
>>bolt that is tourqed gets a dab of this on to show me it has been tighted.
>>
>>Ross Mickey
>>
>>
>>
>
>Red fingernail polish works well also. You can get it locally (drugstore) and
>there's no shipping charge!
>
>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
>wstucklen(at)aol.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KennyCobb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Wanted: wing kit for -4 |
If anyone knows of a -4 wing kit for sale send details to
me directly.
Ken Crabtree
E-Mail- Kenny Cobb @ aol.com
Bakersfield, Ca.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: gear leg fairings |
> Has anyone had any success with the foam filled gear leg fairings from
> Jerry Harrold?
Contact Don Wentz, don_wentz(at)ccm.hf.intel.com (he's not on this list).
Don put fiberglass gear leg fairings on his plane. Then he rebuilt them
his first annual. Then he rebuilt them his second annual. They look
super, but he had to go through hell to get them that way.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terryg(at)SceptreCal.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM |
'Listers -- the conventional wisdom seems to be that before you close
the VS, you should put either conduit or snap bushings in to
accommodate future wiring runs. I'm planning on doing that, and I was
wondering about those of you that actually have 'stuff' at the top of
the VS if there is any optimal routing for the wiring run...in front
of the forward spar? Between the forward spar and the rear spar?
Centred, or to one side? Any thoughts that you have would be much
appreciated...
Cheers...
Terry in Calgary
S/N 24414
"VS Skeleton On Jig"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dcahoon(at)intellinet.com (David Cahoon) |
>To: MSS
>From: dcahoon(at)intellinet.com (David Cahoon)
>Subject: Canopy ?
>
>Re: RV-4
> I will be cutting my canopy this week. What are your thoughts on
protecting the canopy from scratches, cuts, etc. during this work period. It
will obviously get lots of handling.
>
> Somehow I have two types of pop rivets in the package. Both are
countersink heads, but one has ridges on the shank. Which ones are which. Is
one for the canopy and one for the side skins? I can read the plans, I just
don't know how to ID the rivets.
>
> Third and last question. On the front bow, I need to fill about a
1/4" over a
>6" space between the bow and the front skin. What did you find worked best?
>
>David Cahoon
>Jonesboro, Arkansas
>dcahoon(at)intellinet.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-6 HS 603 Spar Questions |
I have just started construction of the RV-6 empenage and have made a couple
of mistakes that I hope are not serious.
Question 1
While riveting the rear spar the rivet gun slipped and dented the HS-603 with
3 cresent shaped dents. Denting the spar outward. Can I tap this dent back
into shape without adversely affecting the structural integrity of the spar
or do I need to rebuild the entire spar? It happened when I was almost
finished with the part.
Question 2
After finishing riveting the rear spar I noticed a few partial rings next to
the rivet heads from the rivet gun, could and/or should I file or sand these
out?
Question 3
Is there a torque requirement when attaching the HS 411 to the spar? Or do
you tighten the bolts as tight as reasonably possible?
Question 4
As a rule of thumb and experience, how many times can a rivet be drilled out
and replaced with the same sized rivet before going to a larger size?
Thanks for your help.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Nuckolls in Portland |
>Bob:
>
>Your aircraft seminar sounds neat!
>
>But I must put my .02 in here -- why are you having it downtown,
>as far from the "action" as you can get? Personally I am much
>more inclined to go to an event such as this if it is also in
>close proximity to AIRPLANES. Near Hillsboro airport comes to
>mind -- HIO is a very active GA airport, and is essentially
>the local "hub" of GA/Homebuilt activity in the area, with
>several smaller strips within a 6 mile radius. There are several
>options for meeting places, some with catering.
>
>Sorry for being critical of your location, but I have to say that
>as much as I would like to attend your seminar, the thought of
>spending my weekend in a convention hall in the downtown industrial
>area really puts a damper on it.
>
>Randall Henderson
>randall(at)edt.com
>
Hmmmmm . . . sorry 'bout that. I didn't really pick the location
so much as accept an offer from the facility my brother works
in part time while working on an engineering degree.
HOWEVER . . . hope to do it again at some point in time. Please
forward your recommendations for future reference!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
>>To: MSS
>>From: dcahoon(at)intellinet.com (David Cahoon)
>>Subject: Canopy ?
>>
>>Re: RV-4
>> I will be cutting my canopy this week. What are your thoughts on
>protecting the canopy from scratches, cuts, etc. during this work period. It
>will obviously get lots of handling.
David,
Leave the clear plastic film (that's the way my RV6 canopy came) on
as long as possible, just strip it off at the edges only. Later, take it
all off and use "Spraylat" from A/C Spruce just like the professionals do.
This stuff is a thick, strippable plastic (PVA?) film that is applied with
a paintbrush or sprayer.
>>
>> Somehow I have two types of pop rivets in the package. Both are
>countersink heads, but one has ridges on the shank. Which ones are which. Is
>one for the canopy and one for the side skins? I can read the plans, I just
>don't know how to ID the rivets.
You want the softest ones, with both an alum. body and an alum.
shaft for the canopy, or switch to #6 screws -- see the archives for some
discussion on this.
>>
>> Third and last question. On the front bow, I need to fill about a
>1/4" over a
>>6" space between the bow and the front skin. What did you find worked best?
I just happened to be talking to Tom Green at Vans this morning on
this very subject!
Some folks are getting extra stresses on their canopies due to lack
of clearance at the front between the bottom of the canopy and the fus. (or
canopy) metal skin. He said a gap here is OK, and some have up to a 1 inch
gap (!!) (on RV6s) here. He recommended a bent metal strip pop-riveted to
the top skin to act as a "dam" or "gap-filler" to form the fiberglass
fairing strip over.
..... Gil (polishing plexi edges) Alexander
RV6A, #20701
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
>>
>>David Cahoon
>>Jonesboro, Arkansas
>>dcahoon(at)intellinet.com
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking longerons |
You wrote:
>
>
>>It sure would be nice if someone from Van's would
>>monitor this group and post something to set the record straight!
>
>If I were a manufacturer watching the messages from a group like this,
I am
>not sure there would be enough Tagamet and Tums in the world to help
my
>stomach....
>
>Denny
>
He He! That dumb ole farm boy, Van, wouldn't get within a country mile
of this list!
But don't get me wrong, I love this list and have learned an enormous
amount from it and made many great connections, but, as you note, I am
not the manufacturer!
Bill
--
___ _____________________________
\ \ _ _ / /
\ /? \ / \ / Bill Costello Chicago \
X-*#####*******......./ N97WC (reserved) /
o/\ \ \_\ \ RV-6 on left elev. \
\__\ \ bcos(at)ix.netcom.com /
\____________________________\
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
RV>Here's a shot in the dark since I know that everybody on this list is lookin
RV>for the same thing that I am. But, I might as well leave no stone unturned,
RV>so here goes.
RV>1] Wanted: Lycoming 0-360 engine, preferably A1A with wide deck pistons.
RV>Also prefer mid-time but of course, that is a matter of price. (please, no
RV>prop strike victims)
RV>2] Also wanted to buy:
RV>Radio
RV>Transponder
RV>GPS with map
RV>assorted flight and engine instruments
RV>etc...
RV>(must be in top notch condition)
Please _please_ PLEASE.... include your name and e-mail address at the
bottom of messages! Many people have e-mail readers that list messages
as from "rv-list(at)matronics.com" with no _NO_ mention of the original
sender's name. I wouldn't mention this, but others on the list
apparently are in the same boat and can't respond privately when it's
appropriate.
Thanks. :-)
Rod Woodard
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument quality? |
>For example, Van sells a brand called Isspro. Are these of reasonable
>quality. (In fact is it prudent to assume that anything listed in Van's
>catalog is good quality)
>
>Aircraft Spruce sells Rochester and Mitchell brands. Rochester is twice the
>price. Any comments?
>In other words, even the most expensive instruments are cheap when you
>consider the value of what they are telling you;
>Andy Gold
Andy, In all of the years I've been reading Sport Aviation and other
aviation publications, I can't remember reading any articles concerning the
accuracy of engine gauges. I always thought this odd. I think monitoring
the health of your engine is rally important. Lots of dollars and possibly
your life are in the balance.
I've seen some of the Isspro stuff and it looks really cheap. I have two
Mitchell fuel gauges in my 6 and for oil temp, oil pressure and fuel
presssure, I have the Rochester electric gauges. I do like the idea of
electric gauges and electric primer to keep fuel and oil lines out of the
cockpit as much as possible. Both the Mitchell and Rochester gauges have
worked well, so far. The Rochester gauges are heavy and I probably won't
use them on the 6A I'm building now. Mitchell makes some cute modular
electric gauges that look like Cessna or Piper clusters. These fit in from
the front, individually, look good and can be ordered in several
configurations, i.e. vertical, horizontal, rectangular.
I've been considering the VM1000 for the 6A. The features that it offers
represents a savings if you price the various individual components such as,
engine monitor, fuel flow, engine instrumentation, etc. The only thing I
don't like about this set-up is that you have several things that can fail
and you loose all of your information. This would be a good selling point
for installing separate units.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 HS 603 Spar Questions |
>Question 1
>While riveting the rear spar the rivet gun slipped and dented the HS-603 with
>3 cresent shaped dents. Denting the spar outward. Can I tap this dent back
>into shape without adversely affecting the structural integrity of the spar
>or do I need to rebuild the entire spar? It happened when I was almost
>finished with the part.
>
>Question 2
>After finishing riveting the rear spar I noticed a few partial rings next to
>the rivet heads from the rivet gun, could and/or should I file or sand these
>out?
>
>Question 3
>Is there a torque requirement when attaching the HS 411 to the spar? Or do
>you tighten the bolts as tight as reasonably possible?
>
>Question 4
>As a rule of thumb and experience, how many times can a rivet be drilled out
>and replaced with the same sized rivet before going to a larger size?
>
>Thanks for your help.
Questions #1 & 2 I don't want to stick my neck out on this one as it is
hard to determine what the damage is without seeing it. I'd call the
factory. Maybe if you sent them a picture of the damage, they could come up
with a fix. If it is damaged the way I think it is, I'd replace it, for
peace of mind, if nothing else. Also, I feel that it is a bad habit to get
into, saying "ah, it's good enough". The cumulative results of this
thinking could result in an un-airworthy airplane. Maybe you could get a
mechanic that knows sheet metal or a fellow RVer to look at it. I would
recommend that you use the "Avery tool" any chance you get to set your
rivets. Just starting out on a kit, riveting conventionally makes life a
little harder than it needs to be.
Question #3 If you checked most planes, you'd probably find that most AN3
bolts are over torqued. I beleive the recommended torque for AN3's is 25
inch pounds. This torque can easliy be achieved with a socket on a driver
handle. You might want to get a copy of AC 43.13. This has torque tables
along with a lot of other valuable information.
Question #4 That would depend on how good of job you do drilling out the
rivet. If you are having to drill out too many rivets, you might want to
practice a little more. Rivets will expand to a certain extent to fill a
poor hole, but there comes a time when you'll have to go to a larger rivet.
AC 43.13 can give you some guidance on this, as well. Bob Skinner RV-6
BSkinner(at)ltec.net
p.s. Don't forget to put your name (and e-mail address) at the end of your post.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Baffle installation |
I recall seeing a posting some time ago about a different way of installing
the front cooling baffles in order to make the cowl easier to install. It
involved using screws in some way so that part of it could be removed.
Anyone who has this posting, please put it back on the list or send it
directly to me. Thanks.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: IFR in an RV-6 |
One of the back issues of Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing Newsletter had an
article and pictures of an easy way to install a windshield defrost/defog
system. It is very light, very cheap and even though each side puts out 56
cubic feet per minute, it is virtually silent. It uses two 12 volt fans from
Radio Shack and a couple of sofit vents which are available at any building
supply store. If you want the 1995 back issues of the newsletter, including
the one that had this article and lots of other goodies, send $5. to Van's
Air Force, 422 Savannah Ridge Drive, St. Charles, MO 63303.
Jim Cone
Editor, Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing Newsletter
jamescone(at)aol.com
P.S. I offer a money back guarantee if you don't think that my newsletter is
worth it. So far, no returns.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Canopy-Rivets or screws?? |
Thank you very much for your info. I'm not sure why they don't publish this
in the construction manual; I talked to 2 different people at Van's, and got
2 different answers. Your input made a lot of sense. Thanks!
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
>Jim Cone
>jamescone(at)aol.com
>Only the canopy to fit and I'm ready to paint.
>
>
Oh, so THAT's why us canopy builders are anxiously waiting for the next
episode of "Canopy, oh my canopy", you went out of order! :)
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: VS Wire Routing |
> 'Listers -- the conventional wisdom seems to be that before you close
> the VS, you should put either conduit or snap bushings in to
> accommodate future wiring runs. I'm planning on doing that, and I was
> wondering about those of you that actually have 'stuff' at the top of
> the VS if there is any optimal routing for the wiring run...in front
> of the forward spar? Between the forward spar and the rear spar?
> Centred, or to one side? Any thoughts that you have would be much
> appreciated...
>
> Cheers...
>
> Terry in Calgary
> S/N 24414
> "VS Skeleton On Jig"
>
Terry,
Really doesn't matter too much where the wire goes. I ran the wire for the
strobe in front of the front spar but it wouldn't have mattered much if I
had run it further back. Of course, if you run the wire in the front of the
VS you will move the CG 0.001" further forward. :<) You will want to place
the wire to the right to partially balance the aircraft when flying solo.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument quality? |
>
>>
>>In other words, even the most expensive instruments are cheap when you
>>consider the value of what they are telling you;
>
>>Andy Gold
>
>Andy, In all of the years I've been reading Sport Aviation and other
>aviation publications, I can't remember reading any articles concerning the
>accuracy of engine gauges. I always thought this odd. I think monitoring
>the health of your engine is rally important. Lots of dollars and possibly
>your life are in the balance.
>
My $0.02 worth. I've got the standard gauges using both Mitchell and
Rochester as well as the Electronic type of gauges. Were I to build another
RV I would go with all Electronic gauges. Why, you ask? More accurate;
when an analog gauge fails it usually still works but it is off by as much
as 50% or more. Digital gauges usually just quit when they're bad. As far
as accuracy goes, the digital gauges are usually accurate to within +/- 1%;
try to find an analog gauge that even approaches that accuracy.
Electronic digital gauges usually are much lighter than their analog
counterparts. Granted, this weight reduction is forward of the CG but it
still helps.
Cost seems high but since each analog gauge costs at least $100 each the
digital gauges aren't really that much. I first tried a float sensor gauge
fuel level, didn't work; went to a capacitance system, didn't work; and
finally ended up with a system similar to Matt Dralle's system. In total, I
spent over $1400 before I ended up with a system that worked for me. Don't
make that mistake. Get a system like Matt's; you'll be happy and won't
waste the money and time that I did.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
Seattle WA, USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: IFR in an RV-6 |
>With regard to ICING, do you have any sort of defrost directed on the
>windshield to clear the ice off the canopy? What happened when you climbed
>out of icing conditions. How long before the ice separated from the canopy?
>
>
>
Only defrost for the canopy is the heat from the heater ducts. It's not
really set up for a defrosting situation while in flight.
The ice melted quite rapidly once I reached the the warmer air. It was all
gone within 5-10 minutes. I suppose the rain helped melt it away faster.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
>How is finger nail polish to remove? More than once I have undonea
>"finished" piece and the inspection stuff from Avery peels off quite well as
>it is like a liquid rubber.
>
>Ross
Just apply a little acitone and it "melts" away. Fingernail polish is
nothing more than model airplane "dope". It will also crack away if the nut
is twisted hard.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Mike Talley Panel Drawings |
I've been trying for over a week to download the RV panel drawings
of Mike Talley's on John Hovan's RV web page. I've tried at 5:00 in
the morning, at midnight, at noon, on weekends, on weekdays,
midmorning, afternoon. This site must be very busy. If anyone has
these .gif files for the panel drawings, would you mind attaching
them to an e-mail and sending them to me?
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6a
drilling top fuse skins
tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <tcraig-stearman(at)laugate1.lau.aetc.af.mil> (Tom Craig-Stearman) |
| Subject: | RV-6 HS 603 Spar Questions |
I agree with Bob Skinner's comments. Without seeing the damage in person I
can't advise you accurately. But my gut instinct is that you need to re-do
the horizontal stab spar.
Don't feel too badly. I had to make two horizontal stab spars and two
vertical stab spars. The first time I ever drilled holes in metal was on
my airplane. I expected to make mistakes, but I would not put mistakes on
my airplane. All the replacement parts for the stab spar cost about twenty
bucks, so a mistake at this stage is not terribly costly.
I kept both ruined spars as mementos of my early building efforts. I think
I will hang them on my hangar wall when I get the airplane flying.
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraig-stearman(at)laugatel.lau.aetc.af.mil
RV-4 awaiting finish kit
-------------
Original Text
From: aol.com!Boog829(at)matronics.com, on 13-5-96 3:46 PM:
I have just started construction of the RV-6 empenage and have made a
couple
of mistakes that I hope are not serious.
Question 1
While riveting the rear spar the rivet gun slipped and dented the HS-603
with
3 cresent shaped dents. Denting the spar outward. Can I tap this dent back
into shape without adversely affecting the structural integrity of the spar
or do I need to rebuild the entire spar? It happened when I was almost
finished with the part.
Question 2
After finishing riveting the rear spar I noticed a few partial rings next
to
the rivet heads from the rivet gun, could and/or should I file or sand
these
out?
Question 3
Is there a torque requirement when attaching the HS 411 to the spar? Or do
you tighten the bolts as tight as reasonably possible?
Question 4
As a rule of thumb and experience, how many times can a rivet be drilled
out
and replaced with the same sized rivet before going to a larger size?
Thanks for your help.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Baffle installation |
>I recall seeing a posting some time ago about a different way of installing
>the front cooling baffles in order to make the cowl easier to install. It
>involved using screws in some way so that part of it could be removed.
> Anyone who has this posting, please put it back on the list or send it
>directly to me. Thanks.
>
>Jim Cone
>jamescone(at)aol.com
Jim, Don't know if this is what you're looking for, but--- To make the
bottom cowl easier to remove, I made the front, horizontal cowl seals
removable. I glued the baffle seal to a strip of aluminum and drilled this
on to the front, horizontal baffles. I drilled on and installed two # 6
nutplates on each side. The baffle material extends forward to contact and
seal the front of the bottom cowl below the air inlet.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 HS 603 Spar Questions |
I overlooked putting my name and e-mail address with my questions, so here it
is:
Jerry Borkowicz
Wheaton, IL
Boog829(at)aol.com
RV-6 starting on the empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terryg(at)SceptreCal.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM |
| Subject: | VS Wire Routing (Chatter) |
>Really doesn't matter too much where the wire goes. I ran the wire for the
>strobe in front of the front spar but it wouldn't have mattered much if I
>had run it further back. Of course, if you run the wire in the front of
>the VS you will move the CG 0.001" further forward. :<) You will want to
>place the wire to the right to partially balance the aircraft when flying
>solo.
>
>John Ammeter
>ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com
>Seattle WA, USA
>RV-6 N16JA
>Flying 5 years
John...are you laughing with me, or at me?! :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: VS Wire Routing |
> 'Listers -- the conventional wisdom seems to be that before you close
> the VS, you should put either conduit or snap bushings in to
> accommodate future wiring runs. I'm planning on doing that, and I was
> wondering about those of you that actually have 'stuff' at the top of
> the VS if there is any optimal routing for the wiring run...in front
> of the forward spar? Between the forward spar and the rear spar?
> Centred, or to one side? Any thoughts that you have would be much
> appreciated...
>
> Cheers...
>
> Terry in Calgary
> S/N 24414
> "VS Skeleton On Jig"
I put snap bushings into the leding edge ribs and left a string in place
until I attached the vertical stab to the fuselage (the last time). Still
have a string here, and in the wings so other wires can be pulled at a later
date.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wanted to buy |
>Please _ PLEASE.... include your name and e-mail address at the
>bottom of messages! Many people have e-mail readers that list messages
>as from "rv-list(at)matronics.com" with NO mention of the original
>sender's name. I wouldn't mention this, but others on the list
>apparently are in the same boat and can't respond privately when it's
>appropriate.
>Rod Woodard
Thanks Rod,
My name is Andy Gold and my e-mail address is pfpa(at)aol.com
And, just to make sure, here is a repeat of the message.
Here's a shot in the dark since I know that everybody on this list is looking
for the same thing that I am. But, I might as well leave no stone unturned,
so here goes.
1] Wanted: Lycoming 0-360 engine, preferably A1A with wide deck pistons.
Also prefer mid-time but of course, that is a matter of price.
2] Also wanted to buy:
Radio
Transponder
GPS with map
assorted flight and engine instruments
(all in top notch condition)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
Hello listers!
My RV-8, kit # 80033 finally officially arrived yesterday afternoon.
The first two boxes showed up on Friday, but the good box with all the
skins & _instructions_ didn't show up until yesterday.
As a couple of other people have mentioned, I too had a slightly bunged
up elevator skin. I'm going to study the plans and see if the bends
will show. If not I doubt there would be any structural ramifications
of just bending things back into place.
No question what I'll be doing tonight after work... and tomorrow...
and the next day.... :-)
Rod Woodard
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Arter <arter(at)acd.ucar.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Wanted to buy |
Rod, hi
There is a way to extract the senders e-mail address from the header using
Eudora. Don't know what the headers are like for other mail readers.
Example:
From: lawyernet.com!rwoodard(at)matronics.com <<<<<<<<< USE THIS LINE
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 17:13:52 -0500
Subject: RV-List: Wanted to buy
From: lawyernet.com!rwoodard(at)matronics.com
Cut out the name that appears after the ! mark up to and including the @
sign, paste it in front of the address at the beginning. Delete the From:,
and matronics.com.
rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com
Presto-chango!
Phil
arter(at)acd.ucar.edu
>
>Please _please_ PLEASE.... include your name and e-mail address at the
>bottom of messages! Many people have e-mail readers that list messages
>as from "rv-list(at)matronics.com" with no _NO_ mention of the original
>sender's name. I wouldn't mention this, but others on the list
>apparently are in the same boat and can't respond privately when it's
>appropriate.
>
>Thanks. :-)
>
>Rod Woodard
>RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com |
| Subject: | 603 spar questions |
If you hit the flange strip hard enough to dent the channel, it is most
likely that you should redo the parts. Try using the avery C tool to
set these rivets. It makes your life much easier. Also try to get a
helper to hold the spar while you do the riveting.
One more thing....
Beware the 408 rib!! ( or is it the 608)? Anyway, it's the middle one
between the root and the tip. This rib attaches to the rear spar at a
point where the flange strips ( underneath ) are tapering. There is no
room for error when drilling at this location. The flange on the rib is
really not wide enough for comfort at this location.
This is how I "totalled" my first HS. I mounted the 408 rib and marked
the flange 1/4" from each edge. I then drilled through the spar into
the flange strips. Much later when I was almost ready to drill the skins,
I reached under and noticed that the holes were very close to the edge of
the flange strips. After measuring, I found that I violated the 1/4" edge
distance at the flange strips. Not by much, but it is a no-go item. I did
a tolerance stack up on the parts that I had and found that the only way I
could really make this work was to cut the flange off the 408 rib and rivet
on a bigger one, too late though.....
I suggest that you pre-drill this location (#40) when laying out your HS.
The worst that can happen is that you will have to modify the rib. It's
much better than building a new spar.
Good luck and welcome to the mulitple spar club .
John
Walsh(at)ranger.enet.dec.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking longerons |
>It sure would be nice if someone from Van's would
>monitor this group and post something to set the record straight!
Rest assured, there are people from Van's "lurking" as we speak
(right, drool-meister?) But they're smart enough to not speak up
and instead let the forum sort things out on its own.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark N. Hilsen" <71322.1267(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Harmon Turtle Deck? |
Does anyone have any personal experience with John Harmon's "Harmon Rocket"
turtle deck conversion for the RV-4? An RV-4 builder friend, Roger Swansen of
Seattle, is building his turtle deck conversion into his fuselage now and asks
what others have heard or experienced with theirs.
Benefit: better after canopy sealing against both rain and air noise, reduced
drag and higher cruise speed, better rear seat head room, more baggage storage
space.
Cost: slightly reduced visibility at "six" (tail chasers, beware), $135 for the
fueselage bulkhead parts and plans from John Harmon, and the cost of the sheet
aluminum for skin. I believe you can use the stock canopy but it gets cuto off
a foot or so forward of the aft apex, and if you like a custom canopy it would
run about $500 from GeeBee Canopies in Seattle.
In appearance, it looks exactly like the Harmon Rocket's canopy-to-fuselage
mating because ... it IS the Harmon Rocket canopy-to-fuselage design and parts.
I have been thinking about this mod because I am a rear-seat guy -- I like
letting everyone experience things from the best seat (and besides, I have a
tendency to to get caught up in sleep once we hit cruise). If it is as quiet,
roomy, and fast as Mr. Harmon says, I might be interested.
Mark N. Hilsen 71322.1267(at)compuserve.com
RV-4 #2420 -- fuselage in jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Haan <bobh(at)synopsys.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument quality? |
>I first tried a float sensor gauge
>fuel level, didn't work; went to a capacitance system, didn't work; and
>finally ended up with a system similar to Matt Dralle's system. In total, I
>spent over $1400 before I ended up with a system that worked for me. Don't
>make that mistake. Get a system like Matt's; you'll be happy and won't
>waste the money and time that I did.
>
>John Ammeter
What is a Matt Dralle's system?
Bob Haan
Portland, OR
RV6-A both wings in the jigs, LEs & Top Skins Riveted on, working on tanks
bobh(at)synopsys.com
Evenings 503-636-3550
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sheinlein(at)VNET.IBM.COM |
| Subject: | How much rudder travel is required? |
I'm fitting the rudder to the VS and was wondering how much
rudder travel is needed? Something like 30 degrees or so?
I don't recall seeing it in the contruction manual or in the
videos anywhere.
Stephen Heinlein (RV-6/6A... fiberglass work on empennage)
sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | I got the drawings, Thanks! |
I have received a copy of Mike Talleys drawings from a kind person
on the list. Thanks!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument quality? |
Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com, jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com,
Mlfred(at)aol.com, dralle
>>-------------
>>I first tried a float sensor gauge
>>fuel level, didn't work; went to a capacitance system, didn't work; and
>>finally ended up with a system similar to Matt Dralle's system. In total, I
>>spent over $1400 before I ended up with a system that worked for me. Don't
>>make that mistake. Get a system like Matt's; you'll be happy and won't
>>waste the money and time that I did.
>>
>>John Ammeter
>
>What is a Matt Dralle's system?
>
>Bob Haan
>--------------
Bob,
The system John is referring to is the Matronics FuelScan LT and DX systems.
The FuelScan is a fuel computer system for homebuild aircraft that measures
fuel consumption using a aircraft grade fuel flow transducer. It provides
a myrid of useful infomation such as instantious fuel flow (GPH), total fuel
used, total fuel remaining, and number of pilot adjustable warnings such as
low fuel level and switch tanks (used to balance fuel between tanks in low
wing aircraft). The FuelScan LT and DX are an exceptional value for the
dollar. They are well built, easy to use and install, and come with an
excellent manual. You won't find a better system on the market for less or
more money. If you have web access, check out the Matronics Web page on the
FuelScan at:
http://www.matronics.com
Below is the ASCII version of the FuelScan brochure. There are a number of
people on the RV-List with FuelScans such Jerry Springer, Don Wentz, Mark
Fredrick. Feel free to contact me with any questions you might have.
Matt Dralle
Matronics
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
| Subject: | MIKE- PRIMERS & I |
If someone would repost where Mike and I can download the search engine =
from, I would appreciate it. I need to reload the software since I've =
had to swap over to a newer PC system.=20
Mike, you might try Chief Aircraft at 1800-447-3408. I think their in =
your neck of the woods. I've had very good service from Chief Aircraft.=20
Greg Bordelon
greg(at)brokersys.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
| Subject: | Tach. Inaccuracy |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB419E.96ED6880
Are any of you interested in how to adjust your mechanical tach to make it indicate
accurately?
Greg Bordelon
greg(at)brokersys.com
Houston Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com (Doug Weiler) |
| Subject: | Re: I really really hate to do this. |
>I started lurking on this list a few months ago when I was considering
>building an RV. I eventually chose the 8 and took delivery of one of
>the first kits from Vans. I'm now at the stage where I'm "primer
>constrained" meaning that I've assembled and drilled the front and rear
>spars for the HS and if I were to be able to primer them, I could then
>rivet them and move on. I went out and bought a spray gun and
>respirator, and have built a small paint booth. I've seen a thousand
>warnings about the "primer discussion" which must have raged on for a
>long time, but since I don't have access to any archives, I'm going to
>just have to ask again: how do I prime the interior surfaces/skeleton
>of my RV?
>
>I went to an IA friend of mine and asked him about what kind of
>corrosion protection to use. He uses a 3 step process of alumaprep,
>alodyne, and 2 part epoxy primer. He mentioned though, to be careful
>about alumaprep because it etches so fast. He buys all his material
>directly through a major airline so he wasn't much help in terms of
>local (Seattle) suppliers.
>
>Since I live in a rainy climate, and want to keep this airplane
>forever, what is the current, common method of RV priming? Also, what
>are the common Seattle area distributors for the products? I
>understand that there is often a big problem getting these chemicals
>shipped so it's best to buy them locally.
>
>If you like, you can just reply to me (mikeang(at)microsoft.com) and I'll
>post a compilation of the responses.
Mike:
One person's opinion on the never-ending priming topic. Keep it simple and
light... Here's what I do:
Clean with DuPont 3812S Enamel Reducer (removes fingerprints, etc.)
Rough up the parts lightly with a ScotchBrite pad.
Clean again with Dupont 3812S just prior to priming.
Coat lightly and evenly with DuPont VariPrime. This doesn't have to
be a heavy coating.
(1 light coat, followed by 1 light cross-coat).
You are done.
The Scotchbrite sufficiently roughs the surface (same effect as AlumaPrep).
VariPrime is self-etching and contains zinc chromate for corrosion protection.
My opinion is that using epoxy primer on all internal surface is going to
get necessarily heavy.
My 1959 Cessna with no corrision protection whatsoever show just a little
surface corrosion on the internal structure in a few random spots.
Doug
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
= Doug Weiler, pres. MN Wing, Van's AirForce, RV-4 in progress, N722DW
= 347 Krattley Lane
= Hudson, WI 54016
= 715-386-1239
= email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott.Fink(at)Microchip.COM (Scott Fink) |
| Subject: | Re: How much rudder travel is required? |
I was just in Portland and stopped in to Van's where my freind had
this exact question. Their answer was that it is in the section where
the empanage is mated to the fuse, and that you really don't have to
worry about that until you get there.
Scott Fink (RV-6 (definatly), working on VS)
scott.fink(at)microchip.com
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RV-List: How much rudder travel is required?
Date: 5/14/96 1:15 PM
I'm fitting the rudder to the VS and was wondering how much
rudder travel is needed? Something like 30 degrees or so?
I don't recall seeing it in the contruction manual or in the
videos anywhere.
Stephen Heinlein (RV-6/6A... fiberglass work on empennage)
sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Nuckolls in Portland |
> HOWEVER . . . hope to do it again at some point in time. Please
> forward your recommendations for future reference!
"Hallmark Inn" right across the street from HIO is one idea. I'm
not sure what they have for conference facilities but I'm sure
there's something. And they do have a restaraunt so catering should
be available.
EAA Chapter 105 has a big hangar at Twin Oaks airpark, 5 miles
south of HIO. It has AV facilities and plenty of chairs and tables.
You'd have to ask the officers about whether they'd rent it out
for a seminar. Catering might be a problem, unless you could prevail
on the saturday morning "breakfast crew" to handle it. I do know
that they'd be MORE than happy to have you as the "program" some
meeting night though (third Thursday of the month every month).
Those are the only things that come to mind right off the bat,
but I'm sure there are other facilities available close to HIO.
When you get ready to do another one let me know and I might
be able to dig around some more.
Randall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument quality? |
> >What is a Matt Dralle's system?
> >
>
> The system John is referring to is the Matronics FuelScan LT and DX systems.
For all it's worth, I had an opportunity to play with Matt's system recently.
Once you go through the instruction manual once, it's very easy to use. I'll
have one in my airplane.
-J
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Tach. Inaccuracy |
>Are any of you interested in how to adjust your mechanical tach to make it
indicate accurately?
>
>Greg Bordelon
>greg(at)brokersys.com
>Houston Texas
>
>
>Attachment Converted: C:\EUDORA\RERV-Lis.Inaccura
Greg, Sure. Also, will you tell us how to de-code attachments? Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | frankv(at)pec.co.nz |
| Subject: | Extracting From: address |
>There is a way to extract the senders e-mail address from the header
>using Eudora. Don't know what the headers are like for other mail
>readers.
>From: lawyernet.com!rwoodard(at)matronics.com <<<<<<<<< USE THIS LINE
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Cut out the name that appears after the ! mark up to and including
>the @ sign, paste it in front of the address at the beginning.
>Delete the From:, and matronics.com.
If you reply directly to the From: address (eg
lawyernet.com!rwoodard(at)matronics.com) and it goes to the
individual rather than the list (I hope... I just experimented with
sending mail to pec.co.nz!frankv(at)matronics.com, and it came back to me
directly). The email package I use gives me a choice of replying to
either the From: or to the Reply-To: address.
Matt:
1. Can you confirm that this is is correct.
2. Why is the From: line convoluted like this, rather than just
containing the original sender's address?
Frank.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: Extracting From: address |
>--------------
>>There is a way to extract the senders e-mail address from the header
>>using Eudora. Don't know what the headers are like for other mail
>>readers.
>
>>From: lawyernet.com!rwoodard(at)matronics.com <<<<<<<<< USE THIS LINE
>>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>>Cut out the name that appears after the ! mark up to and including
>>the @ sign, paste it in front of the address at the beginning.
>>Delete the From:, and matronics.com.
>
>If you reply directly to the From: address (eg
>lawyernet.com!rwoodard(at)matronics.com) and it goes to the
>individual rather than the list (I hope... I just experimented with
>sending mail to pec.co.nz!frankv(at)matronics.com, and it came back to me
>directly). The email package I use gives me a choice of replying to
>either the From: or to the Reply-To: address.
>
>Matt:
>
>1. Can you confirm that this is is correct.
>
>2. Why is the From: line convoluted like this, rather than just
>containing the original sender's address?
>
>Frank.
>
>--------------
==> The "From " line should be "rv-list-owner(at)matronics.com" or
==> "matronics.com!rv-list-owner".
This is set this way so that all those 100s of bogus email bounces come back
to me instead of going to the sender of the message. Not all mailers work
correctly, and every once in a while the list ends up with a few bounce
messages. Believe me, you don't what to know how many *I* have to deal with
every day. With almost 500 people on the rv-list, there is *always* 1 or more
addresses that don't work for some reason. Two of the big offenders are
AOL and Compuserve. These bastards do not properly read the "bulk" priority
of the mail that comes from the RV-List, and insist on sending back an
error message when the user's email box is full. This happens constantly and I
find if very irritating. If you are using either of these service providers, I
urge you to please complain to them about this! They should *not* be sending
informational error messages to incoming mail marked "bulk" or "junk".
==> The "From: " line should be the actual *sender* of the message, c/o
==> matronics.com, for example "lawyernet.com!rwoodard(at)matronics.com".
Yup, I agree this is a pain. The problem is that the matronics.com email
domain is actually across a UUCP connection. When the outgoing email is
processed to go back over the link, that is how it comes out. Maybe one day
when all of you buy a FuelScan, I can afford to upgrade to a full time
Internet connection and drop the UUCP connection... :-)
==> The "Reply-To: " line should be "rv-list(at)matronics.com" or
==> "matronics.com!rv-list".
As has been discussed *many* times on the RV-List before, the "Reply-To:"
mail header is set to point back to the rv-list so that when people reply
to messages the rest of the members will get a copy of the message. This
method was significantly preferred based on an email vote I performed
a couple of months ago. Please, let's not start up a big thread on this
topic. It's already been beaten to death on the List.
'Hope this answers your questions,
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | F-694A - Stab gap filler |
---------------------
From: aol.com!BPattonsoa(at)matronics.com
Date: 96-05-12 14:37:16 EDT
I am fitting the stab fiberglass fairing (yuck, fiberglass), and started
looking at the F-694A that fills the gap between the stab and the longeron on
the -6 and -6A.
Is there any reason why it can't just be rivited on instead of drilling and
tapping screws? I might make it out of .032 instead of .025 to avoid
bending it while the stab is off for the next few months. Would use csk -3
rivets, dimple the filler and csk into the skin/longeron.
Bruce Patton
Fitting fiberglass and hating it!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rdunn(at)ionet.net (Ronald M. Dunn) |
Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy! I was scanning the rv-list this afternoon when I
heard a truck. Turned to look out the window and a UPS truck was stopping in
front of my house! I sprinted out to help the man unload all three boxes (he
was about to overlook the big one).
Tail kit number 78 has arrived in Broken Arrow (Tulsa). No dents, no
scratches, but I am a few parts short (tip ribs, control horns). Oh well,
I'll call Van's tomorrow. All the fiberglass parts were back-ordered.
I just about started a RV-4 back in '81 when he only had tail kits for that
too. Now I'm finally started. Is it OK to have a great big RV grin at this
stage (years before the first flight)? Well I've got one anyway.
Ron Dunn #80078
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
>
> I just followed the directions and overbent it a bit and then used a body
> hammer and dolly to stretch the aft edge so that it fit the rear fuselage
> contour exactly. It fit perfectly and looks much better that just leaving it
> flat like it ends up after bending it.
>
> Jim Cone
> jamescone(at)aol.com
Well with a name like yours you'd BETTER do a good job in that area! :-)
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: messed up left elevator stiffners... sigh... |
Regarding reverse dimpling:
I dimpled about 10 rivets on the bottom trailing edge of one of my
leading edge skins the wrong direction. When I tried reverse dimpling
them, they all cracked around the outer edge of the dimple. Scratch
one LE skin.... :-( I was using dimple dies that had a pretty sharp
edge however, ones that were made by Sid Golden.
BTW, If I had it to do over I would probably just rivet between the
messed up holes and fill the bad ones somehow. It was a pain
retro-fitting to drilled, dimpled LE ribs, and the 2nd skin didn't
fit as well as the first one.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Thanks for the comments about the pros and cons of installing a
battery box.
Bob: I have some further questions regarding your comments:
> Believe me, if your airplane arrives with an attitude that puts
> 10 Gs on the battery in the upward direction, battery separation from
> the airframe is the LEAST of your worries.
Good point!
> If it were MY RV, I would be very comfortable with two 1" steel straps
> holding a battery into a snug fitting tray, braced against the aft side
> of the firewall. You'll save several pounds
Really? I haven't weighed it, but my battery box, sitting on the bench
seems to be less than 2 lbs (maybe even less than 1). It's just
.040 aluminum. I'll bet the steel straps would be comparable, especially
with fasteners. Not trying to shoot you down, just comparing the two....
> and eliminate one of the
> sheet metal penetrations that requires the protection that we've been
> talking about the past week.
Which is that -- the screws/nutplates holding it to the fwall?
I should probably explain that the reason I like the idea of not having
a battery box is that the other day I went out to fly my partner's RV-6
and I got in it and the master was left on and the battery was stone
dead. This was the first time I had to remove the battery box in an RV
and I found it to be kind of a pain. I didn't even consider trying to
jump-start the thing, in part because getting the battery box back on
while it was running was not something I wanted to try. But without any
"excitation current" either from the battery or jump-starting, the
alternator won't work, so even after hand-propping it there was no juice
to the radios, etc. Even if I wanted to fly withou radios (I didn't), I
would NOT want to fly on only one mag -- this plane has electronic
ignition....
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking longerons |
> ... [Tom Green @ Van's said]... the side
> skins-longeron combination is machine countersunk and the turtledeck is
> dimpled. This went right over my head until I got home. I have already
> machine countersunk the longerons and dimpled the side skins. I haven't
> gotten ahold of Tom yet today but I am nervous that I will ahve to replace
> my longerons :( !! Where did I miss this in the plans?
Don't worry, you're fine. I just did this and was a bit confused myself
at first -- it took me some time to figure out exactly what was called
for here, even after reading Frank Js instructions. But the gist of
it is that in the areas where there will later be top skins that overlay
the bottom side skins (i.e. forward and aft of the canopy area), the bottom
side skins are to be drilled on 3" centers, then riveted before turning the
whole thing over, and later on the top skins are drilled on 1 1/2" centers,
OFFSET from the 3" spaced rivets that hold the bottom side skins to the
longerons. It's ok to machine c-sink the longerons and dimple the bottom
side skins (preferable IMHO since some of them are .025). This means you
have to machine c-sink the offset 1 1/2" spaced top skins through the
bottom side skins since those are already riveted on. This is what Tom was
talking about.
The reason for this is so that you can have some rivets holding the bottom
side skins to the longerons before removing the fuselage from the jig,
and has nothing to do with not wanting to machine-c-sink the longerons,
only with the order of putting on the skins. Also, the longerons are 1/8"
so there's PLENTY of thickness there. Note that the concern Vans has with
the spar carrythrough involves a .063 part.
BUT... if you've already drilled and c-sunk all your skins at 1 1/2"
spacing, you'll have to modify the "3" spacing with 1 1/2" offset overlay"
as is called for in the manual. I'd suggest doing the following: figure out
and mark where top skins will go later, then drill new holes on 3" centers,
offset from the existing 1 1/2" holes, through the bottom side skins and
longerons, in those areas. Dimple/machine c-sink the new holes, then rivet
the bottom skins on through ONLY those (new, 3" center) holes, plus all of
the (1 1/2" centered) holes where the top skins will NOT be. Then when you
go to fit your top skins, you can back-drill the top skins through the
previously drilled/c-sunk 1 1/2" spaced holes in the bottom skin and
longeron. I actually considered doing this so I would NOT have to
over-countersink through the bottom skins, but decided it wasn't worth
the trouble.
Hope this all makes sense....
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | RV6A Construction Pictures On Web |
Thanks to all of you who have given me helpful comments and ideas on
building my RV6A this past year. I have created a homepage with many
pictures of my RV6A in the construction phase if you would like to see them.
As this is my first attempt at creating a web page, I would appreciate any
comments you may have.
The web page of my RV6A construction is at http://www.mcs.net/~rvgasj/rv6a.html
Thanks
Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | de-code attachments/Tach. Inaccuracy |
>Greg, Sure. Also, will you tell us how to de-code attachments? Bob Skinner
>
Bob; I'm glad you said that. I thought that all attachments were written in
ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics, and I haven't found anything yet in
Windows95 that will translate it. Of course, I don't fully understand win95
yet either. I've done all that I know to do except learn Egyptian hierog.,
and doubt if that would do me much good, would take a different keyboard.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
>If it were MY RV, I would be very comfortable with two 1" steel straps
>holding a battery into a snug fitting tray, braced against the aft side
>of the firewall. You'll save several pounds and eliminate one of the
>sheet metal penetrations that requires the protection that we've been
>talking about the past week. As for appearace, the RG battery comes
>in your choice of decorator colors: red and gray, gloss grey with
>sporty red epoxy terminal seals and generic gloss black . . . . what
>a deal!
>
> Bob . . .
> AeroElectric Connection
>
>
What are you building your battery box out of? The battery is the only thing
that should be made of lead. :-)
I don't think you could save more than a half of a pound. You would still
need structure to support the battery and a strap to hold it. I think it's
great to get rid of any weight you can, but the battery box was not so over
designed that "several pounds" can be saved.
Andy Hanna
Ahanna2(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: F-694A - Stab gap filler |
>Is there any reason why it can't just be rivited on instead of drilling and
>tapping screws? I might make it out of .032 instead of .025 to avoid
>bending it while the stab is off for the next few months. Would use csk -3
>rivets, dimple the filler and csk into the skin/longeron.
>
>Bruce Patton
Bruce, I wondered the same thing when I was building my 6. I guess there is
no reason to ever remove this strip unless it would be to change the
incidence angle of the tail in which case having it removeable would be
handy. If you had the aircraft painted and had to drill out rivets, you
might wish you would have screwed it on. Of course, if you have to change
the incidence angle, removing the strip might be the least of your
problems---you'd have to build another empenage fairing, but you probably
like fiberglass more than I do :) Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FAA visit - Yippee!! - Update on N517RL |
Hi Guys & Gals..
Just wanted to let you know that the MAN visited the hangar today and gave
RV6A, 22626, N517RL a clean bill of health, and an airworthiness certificate.
Actually it was 2 men, and it couldn't have been a more pleasant experience.
They looked at the plane for about 20 minutes, made general approving noises,
checked out the paperwork for another 15, and left happy. They were very
interested in the builders log, and liked the fact that it was thorough,
with plenty of pictures... Gave me 25 hours and a generous test area...
Can't wait.
After putting back the inspection plates, Greg Bordelon and I went out to high
speed taxi test again, - I'm waiting for my expert test pilot to come in Friday
to do the real thing... but Lord... was it tempting.... with the nose wheel off
at 50MPH... everything in the green...stall warning in full voice..The plane
screaming "fly me...Fly me"...just need to stick in some more power and...and...
no....I was a good boy...I'll wait my turn...(at least for another three days
(GRIN))
"The day will finally come around... Keep at it listers...It's well worth the
trip"
Rob (not slept well in days now) Lee
av8r(at)hic.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: FAA visit - Yippee!! - Update on N517RL |
Rob,
Good luck , and happy flying . In the beginning take it slow ,get use to the
plane and learn it habits (good or bad). Remember at all times fly the plane
if left up to itself the RV some times do not nice things (those little
wings). Until you get a real good feel the the plane it helps to keep your
speed up a little on landings , and then as you get the hang of it you can
slow it down. Let me know how it goes as soon as the smile will let you
....George (soon to be in Texas) Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: FAA visit - Yippee!! - Update on N517RL |
>was it tempting.... with the nose wheel off
>at 50MPH... everything in the green...stall warning in full voice..The plane
>screaming "fly me...Fly me"...just need to stick in some more power
>and...and...
>
>no....I was a good boy...I'll wait my turn...(at least for another three
days
>
>(GRIN))
FLY IT. by all means man fly it. I thought about having somebody else do my
test flight too...for about 3 seconds. My first flight was the most
wonderful experience of my life. Having someone else fly YOUR airplane for
the first time is like having someone else sleep with your wife on your
wedding night!
If it handles well on the ground during high-speed taxi tests, everything
will be OK. You will more than likely have a heavy wing but this is normal
and is easy to fix. Additionally, you will notice that you will need
(right?) rudder to keep the ball centered. This is also normal and is easy
to fix with a scab-tab.
The RV's handle soooooo wellllll that I can't even tell tell you. You will
find that you will have a "ham fist" at first but this over-controling will
go away in 10 to 20 minutes.
As the TV ad says...just do it
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Yablon <brian(at)lanart.com> |
| Subject: | Satin finish on spar strips? |
Hi Folks,
I have a general question about the required surface finish on
thick-stock aluminum parts (like spar strips). Van's says to dress
the parts to a "satin finish" about the equivalent of 400 grit
sandpaper.
1) If you use Scotch-Brite to prepare the parts, what is the coarsest
pad (red, blue or gray) that is acceptable as a final finish? I use
Avery's 3" surface conditioning pads on my die grinder. I start with
red to remove manufacturing scratches and file marks. At 20,000 RPM,
the red pad can be pretty aggressive, and I finish buffing out with
blue. But when I'm done, some scratches from the red pad are sometimes
still visible. Will these act as stress raisers?
2) Just how anal do you have to be about preparing thick stock. For
example, should you remove the extrusion marks from bar stock? My
impression is no, since in watching the Orndorff's videos, I noticed
that the Alcoa label on their spar strips is still clearly visible
through the primer, indicating that they don't sand their strips much.
Any net wisdom on this?
Brian Yablon (brian(at)lanart.com)
RV-6A #25741
HS skeleton in jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FAA visit - Yippee!! - Update on N517RL |
>Hi Guys & Gals..
>
>Just wanted to let you know that the MAN visited the hangar today and gave
>RV6A, 22626, N517RL a clean bill of health, and an airworthiness certificate.
Congrats Rob! Let us know when, and how, it flies.
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
>But without any
>"excitation current" either from the battery or jump-starting, the
>alternator won't work, so even after hand-propping it there was no juice
>to the radios, etc.
In airplanes where access to the battery is difficult, or time consuming, or
where working around the cowel is dangerous once the engine is running, it is
wise to provide an external jack for charging... this does not have to be the
traditional heavy plug/jack capable of passing 70 or 80 amps for jump
starting... a slow charge can be done over several hours with a lesser charge
current, allowing the flight to continue, albeit delayed...
as the author pointed out, with a truly DEAD battery, modern alternators are
useless even if the engine can be hand propped.... a jack capable of passing
a 10 amp charge current, will allow you to energize the alternator once the
plane is running... a cigarette lighter jack will suffice for this...and 10
minutes of an energized alternator will (if the battery is not RIP due to the
serious discharge) put enough charge into the battery to maintain current
through the field winding on the alternator, once the external charger is
disconnected...
You could even get slick here, and place a diode in series with the field
lead, so that the lightweight jack is blocked from attempting to charge the
battery when energizing the alternator... then only a few amps will
suffice...
An alternative trick to the diode, would be a switch, to open circuit the
wire from the battery to the field winding.... this could be useful in an
overvoltage situation while in flight... >
Denny
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gretzw(at)tcplink.nrel.gov |
Does any one know what has happened to John Hovan's RV home page?
I have not been able to get it to load for a very long time. It starts
to load and then quits. I have tried to connect to it through Van's
home page also, and the same thing is happening.
There is a wealth of information there if one can get to it.
I have been trying ----
atlantis.austin.apple.com/people.pages/jhovan/home.html
Please let me know what is happening.
Warren Gretz
Denver
RV-6
N25WG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
>I should probably explain that the reason I like the idea of not having
>a battery box is that the other day I went out to fly my partner's RV-6
>and I got in it and the master was left on and the battery was stone
>dead. This was the first time I had to remove the battery box in an RV
>and I found it to be kind of a pain. I didn't even consider trying to
>jump-start the thing, in part because getting the battery box back on
>while it was running was not something I wanted to try. But without any
>"excitation current" either from the battery or jump-starting, the
>alternator won't work, so even after hand-propping it there was no juice
>to the radios, etc. Even if I wanted to fly withou radios (I didn't), I
>would NOT want to fly on only one mag -- this plane has electronic
>ignition....
>
>Randall Henderson
>RV-6
>
>
Randall:
I put a Piper Power Plug n the belly of my -6A just for that reason. It's
located just behind the battery on the floor. So far, in almost three years
of flying it, I've only had to use it once (left the master on, but the
battery still had some juice in it...).
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terryg(at)SceptreCal.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM |
| Subject: | RV6A Construction Pictures On Web |
---------------------------------- Forwarded ----------------------------------
From: INTERNET:rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net at CSERVE
Date: 5/14/96 11:20PM
*To: INTERNET:RV-LIST(at)MATRONICS.COM at CSERVE
Subject: RV-List: RV6A Construction Pictures On Web
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
============== Begin part 2 ==========================
arl-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515)
Date: Tue, 14 May 96 22:09 CDT
From: Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net>
Subject: RV-List: RV6A Construction Pictures On Web
Thanks to all of you who have given me helpful comments and ideas on
building my RV6A this past year. I have created a homepage with many
pictures of my RV6A in the construction phase if you would like to see them.
As this is my first attempt at creating a web page, I would appreciate any
comments you may have.
The web page of my RV6A construction is at
http://www.mcs.net/~rvgasj/rv6a.html
Thanks
Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
============== End part 2 ============================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com |
| Subject: | RV4 fatal accident Denver?? |
One of the guys on Compuserve reported that a Sukhoi landed on top of
an RV4 at Centennial airport over the weekend. The RV4 pilot was
apparantly killed.
Anybody out there hear about this??
John ( with fingers crossed )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <lewis(at)artery.cmet.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: RV home page? |
On Wed, 15 May 1996 tcplink.nrel.gov!gretzw(at)matronics.com wrote:
> Does any one know what has happened to John Hovan's RV home page?
> I have not been able to get it to load for a very long time. It starts
> to load and then quits. I have tried to connect to it through Van's
> home page also, and the same thing is happening.
>
> I have been trying ----
> atlantis.austin.apple.com/people.pages/jhovan/home.html
Try http://packlid.austin.apple.com/jhovan/home.html
I'm looking at it right now, and it works fine.
Tim Lewis
lewis(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil
capntim(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Duh! Of course I wasn't thinking about an external power
plug so you wouldn't have to remove the battery box
cover to provide jump or charge power to the battery.
Thanks for those who reminded me of this! I agree
with those who said the box looks better, and it's also
simpler to go with the way it was designed (and the
parts already provided) than to go inventing a strap
hold-down. It's also very light so that's what I'm
going to do.
Thanks to all who responded!
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeffery Lorimor <x1lorimo(at)exnet.iastate.edu> |
Saturday, June 8th is RVation day at Boone, IA. Fly in, or drive in
starting about 9-ish. We'll have workshops on riveting, doing your weight &
balance, using proseal, and a women's program. There will be a pork
barbecue at noon (free will donation). We'll award a people's choice trophy
for the RV that folks like the best, and send you home smarter and happier.
Several award winning RVs reside @ Boone including Buzz Lauritzen's 4 that
was the '89 Oshkosh Grand Champ, two other Wright Award winners, and some
Oshkosh workmanship award winners. Buzz & DJ operate Cleaveland Tools here.
Join us if you can; it'll be a good day.
Jeff Lorimor
Putting RV-6 fusalage in jig
Boone, IA
x1lorimo(at)exnet.iastate.edu (...that's x-one, not x-ell)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Satin finish on spar strips? |
Brian,
I finished all thick metal parts using Scotchbrite (red), enough to remove
the oxidized layer so the primer would stick. I did this by hand but the
other day I was at a friends machine shop where they make lots of parts from
6061-T6; they had mounted some Scotchbrite (red) in one of those small square
hand sanders used for finishing hard wood, this worked great! a satin finish
and alot less effort. I'm going to buy one for my next project.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Re: Countersinking longerons |
Randall,
This is exactly what I did! Thanks for the input
Ross
>BUT... if you've already drilled and c-sunk all your skins at 1 1/2"
>spacing, you'll have to modify the "3" spacing with 1 1/2" offset overlay"
>as is called for in the manual. I'd suggest doing the following: figure out
>and mark where top skins will go later, then drill new holes on 3" centers,
>offset from the existing 1 1/2" holes, through the bottom side skins and
>longerons, in those areas. Dimple/machine c-sink the new holes, then rivet
>the bottom skins on through ONLY those (new, 3" center) holes, plus all of
>the (1 1/2" centered) holes where the top skins will NOT be. Then when you
>go to fit your top skins, you can back-drill the top skins through the
>previously drilled/c-sunk 1 1/2" spaced holes in the bottom skin and
>longeron. I actually considered doing this so I would NOT have to
>over-countersink through the bottom skins, but decided it wasn't worth
>the trouble.
>
>Hope this all makes sense....
>
>Randall Henderson
>RV-6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
| Subject: | RV4 fatal accident Denver?? |
RV>One of the guys on Compuserve reported that a Sukhoi landed on top of
RV>an RV4 at Centennial airport over the weekend. The RV4 pilot was
RV>apparantly killed.
RV>Anybody out there hear about this??
RV>John ( with fingers crossed )
Yes, I landed at Centennial (APA) shortly after it happened. I was
dropping off Greg Puckett (RV-8, #80) at Centennial. They were in the
process of switching runways while we were arriving.
The airport has parallel runways, 17L & 17R, and apparently both landed
on 17L. The scuttlebut in the newspapers is that the RV landed on the
wrong runway, but I haven't heard anything official. The newspapers are
also reporting that the other aircraft involved was a Sukhov. I'm not
big into aerobatics or Russian airplanes, so I don't know if this was
just a typo or what.
Apparently the RV-4 was from the Colorado Springs area. The pilot (the
only one aboard) was fatally injured due to "severe head trauma." I
suppose we can use our imagination on that one. The name hasn't been
released yet "pending notification of out-of-state relatives." I hate
to be pointing fingers, especially before anything official is
released, but based on my experiences at that airport on that day (2
takeoffs, 2 landings, morning & afternoon), the tower controllers were
having a very difficult time keeping track of things. The airport was
having its 2nd annual open house and fly-in.
I think the moral of the story is that even in (or especially in)
supposedly controlled environments, we all have to pay close attention
both to what we are being instructed to do _and_ what others are being
instructed to do.
Rod Woodard
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
RV-8, #80033
"Inventory complete, 1 damaged skin; start building tonight!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | Satin finish on spar strips? |
I just started priming my rear spar pieces for the HS and before I
started I asked several people this same question. The consensus
between IA's in my area (all have current A&P certification) is that
inside radiuses are very important to polish smooth. Outer edges of
any load bearing pieces should not have any notches or nicks which you
would feel if your ran your fingernail over them. I found myself
polishing marks and making new marks and polishing those marks and
making marks in an endless circle. The bottom line is that if it
doesn't click under your fingernail, and it is not an inside radius,
then you are done. Also I think that if you are using alumaprep to
clean and prep the parts that the acid can actually smooth out some of
the finer scotchbrite marks.
----------
From: Brian Yablon[SMTP:lanart.com!brian(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 1996 7:24 AM
Subject: RV-List: Satin finish on spar strips?
Hi Folks,
I have a general question about the required surface finish on
thick-stock aluminum parts (like spar strips). Van's says to dress
the parts to a "satin finish" about the equivalent of 400 grit
sandpaper.
1) If you use Scotch-Brite to prepare the parts, what is the coarsest
pad (red, blue or gray) that is acceptable as a final finish? I use
Avery's 3" surface conditioning pads on my die grinder. I start with
red to remove manufacturing scratches and file marks. At 20,000 RPM,
the red pad can be pretty aggressive, and I finish buffing out with
blue. But when I'm done, some scratches from the red pad are sometimes
still visible. Will these act as stress raisers?
2) Just how anal do you have to be about preparing thick stock. For
example, should you remove the extrusion marks from bar stock? My
impression is no, since in watching the Orndorff's videos, I noticed
that the Alcoa label on their spar strips is still clearly visible
through the primer, indicating that they don't sand their strips much.
Any net wisdom on this?
Brian Yablon (brian(at)lanart.com)
RV-6A #25741
HS skeleton in jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
| Subject: | RE Attachments - Chatter |
Some time ago I wrote:
Are any of you interested in how to adjust your mechanical tach to make =
it
indicate accurately?
Bob wrote:
Greg, Sure. Also, will you tell us how to de-code attachments? Bob =
Skinner
Attachment Converted: C:\EUDORA\RERV-Lis.Inaccura
John Wrote:
Bob; I'm glad you said that. I thought that all attachments were written =
in ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics, and I haven't found anything yet in
Windows95 that will translate it. Of course, I don't fully understand =
win95
yet either. I've done all that I know to do except learn Egyptian =
hierog.,
and doubt if that would do me much good, would take a different =
keyboard.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
Wow, guys this news to me. I'm using Microsoft Exchange that was bundle =
with Windows 95. I have not sent any attachments with my messages. Bob, =
it looks like you are running EUDORA Light. John, are you using Eudora =
Light also? If you guys are running Windows 95, why aren't you using =
Microsoft Exchange? When I view my posting to the list...from the =
list....I do not see these attachment messages.
My original post was a "Reply to Sender" message to John's reply about =
Tach Inaccuracies.
Most all of my messages that I've posted have been "New Messages" to the =
best of my knowledge. This message is a "New Message". Why don't we =
perform a test. You tell me if you get the same "attachment" message =
with this posting? We know that you get the "attachment" message when I =
do a "Reply to Sender", right?
I'll be watching for your responses.........
see ya....Greg
greg(at)brokersys.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
| Subject: | TACH. Inaccuracy |
Hi guys, I found out that my tach was inaccurate while trying to =
diagnose a fuel consumption problem. My engine seemed to burn more fuel =
than the book said it should. My IA friend told me to check my tach the =
next time I went flying. I have two electronic hand held tachometers =
from my model airplane days..........I've moved up to full scale now. =
Measuring the prop speed with the electronic tach, I found my mechanical =
tach was indicating 180 RPM low. Therefore, I'd been cruising around =
with a high power setting which was causing the higher than normal fuel =
consumption.
I repaired my tach by removing the front ring or bezel...what ever it's =
called. The ring is crimped onto case. Lay the instrument face down on a =
piece of wood. Using a medium sized screw driver, slide the blade down =
along the exterior of the housing and sort of wedge it between the =
housing and the edge of the crimp. The screw driver blade must fit =
between the edge of the crimps and the tach housing, if it doesn't use a =
smaller blade. Push down hard and twist the screw driver to =
spread/uncrimp and slightly raise the edge of the crimps. There are four =
crimps holding the ring on. It is only necessary to uncrimp three to get =
the ring off. Work your way around slowly.
Once you've removed the ring, glass and gasket assembly.....remove the =
two screws located on the back of the tach housing. The internals of the =
tach will now become free of the housing. Looking over the internals =
you'll find it's a simple mechanical device. There is a drum looking =
assembly.....sorta like a can of tunafish with the lid cut off but only =
smaller.......with two "L" shaped wings that rotate around the drum. I =
think there are magnets on the drum, in the drum or on the wings, I =
can't remember. Anyhow, the tach drive is directly connected to the "L" =
shaped wings and the pointer is directly attached to the drum. A spring =
is attached to the drum so that the pointer returns to zero. Spinning =
the tach drive spins the wings which causes the drum to rotate.=20
If your tach reads low, you need to bend the outside portion of the "L" =
wings closer to the circumference of the drum. Your goal is to make the =
magnetic field stronger to increase the drums rotation and move to =
pointer higher up the scale. Do the opposite if it indicates high. See, =
it's easy.
Okay, I checked mine by reassembling it with out the ring and glass. =
Reinstalled in the airplane.... go fly... measure with electronic =
tach......disassemble..... readjust....etc..=20
While writing this I've come up with a better way to verify the =
accuracy. Attach an aluminum strip to a variable speed drill to simulate =
a propeller. Attach the tach to the drill. Spin the whole =
assemble....measure with electronic tach......adjust =
wings....measure.....adjust. Should work.
While the ring is off you may want to take this opportunity to lube the =
tach drive bearing (helps prevent jittering pointer movements) clean the =
glass and paint the ring/bezel. Slip the ring, glass and gasket assembly =
back into place. Lay the tach face down on a rag across the piece of =
wood. Use another piece of wood and a light hammer to crimp the edges of =
the ring back down.=20
There you have it..........didn't intend to be long winded.
Greg Bordelon=20
greg(at)brokersys.com
Houston Texas
air compressor returns home tonight=20
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
| Subject: | Manufacturer email |
REGARDING Manufacturer email
Rest assured, there are people from Van's "lurking" as we speak
(right, drool-meister?) But they're smart enough to not speak up
and instead let the forum sort things out on its own.
=========================
Yep, especially when you see customer's e-mail addresses from "LAYWERnet. No
offense... (after all they are building RV's so they must be good guys).
However, some words bring a chill to pilots (and manufacturers), like
"flutter", "mid-air", "lawyer". Just imagine Van offering advice and having
it viewed by a plaintiff through a CRT sitting on his lawyers desk! -Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FAA visit - Yippee!! - Update on N517RL |
Rob,
Congradulations! I didn't think anyone could have gotten more excited
than I was! If you feel at all comfortable I'd fly that AC myself! IMHO,
if you can fast taxi an RV you can fly it.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
| Subject: | Manufacturer email |
RV>REGARDING Manufacturer email
RV>Rest assured, there are people from Van's "lurking" as we speak
RV>(right, drool-meister?) But they're smart enough to not speak up
RV>and instead let the forum sort things out on its own.
RV>=========================
RV>Yep, especially when you see customer's e-mail addresses from "LAYWERnet.
RV>no offense... (after all they are building RV's so they must be good guys).
RV>However, some words bring a chill to pilots (and manufacturers), like
RV>"flutter", "mid-air", "lawyer". Just imagine Van offering advice and having
RV>it viewed by a plaintiff through a CRT sitting on his lawyers desk! -Elon
You ought to see the shakes _I_ get at the mention of *DENTIST*!
Sorry if my e-mail address makes anyone nervous. If it makes anyone any
difference, I'm not a personal injury lawyer and I guarantee it
disgusts me every bit as much as any other pilot to see huge awards
given to a litigant because some pilot forgot to switch fuel tanks or
inadvertantly ran a Piper Cub into the side of a Van parked in the
middle of a runway.
For what it's worth, I'm on the right side of the fence when it comes
to litigation detrimental to airplane manufacturers. Most of my clients
are corporations or individuals who are interested in protecting
themselves from those with tendancies toward litigation.
And he's right... I _am_ building the best airplane on the planet!
Best regards,
Rod Woodard
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
RV-8, #80033
Empennage inventory complete; Start building tonight.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FAA visit - Yippee!! - Update on N517RL |
Congratulations and good luck!
Jerry Borkowicz
RV-6
Working on HS
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Satin finish on spar strips? |
SNIP
>At 20,000 RPM,
>the red pad can be pretty aggressive, and I finish buffing out with
>blue. But when I'm done, some scratches from the red pad are sometimes
>still visible. Will these act as stress raisers?>
SNIP
>Brian Yablon (brian(at)lanart.com)RV-6A #25741 HS skeleton in jig
Brian, It sounds like you are doing just fine... The idea is to remove
any SHARP edges that can act as stress concentration areas, where a
crack can start. I would think any scratches from a red scotchbrite pad
will be gentle at the edges and not a real factor. If you are having
any doubts on your work , take a break, go down to the local airport
ramp and look... really look,.. at anything from Wichita - I guarantee
your work is much better. If it isn't - take up golf :)
Best regards
Rob Lee - RV6A - N517RL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Battery Box et. als. |
>Duh! Of course I wasn't thinking about an external power plug so you wouldn't
have to remove
>the battery box cover to provide jump or charge power to the battery. Thanks
for those who
>reminded me of this! I agree with those who said the box looks better, and it's
also
>simpler to go with the way it was designed (and the parts already provided) than
to go
>inventing a strap hold-down. It's also very light so that's what I'm going to
do.
>Thanks to all who responded!
This brings up an important point . . . ground power connections . . . especially
if your battery is hard to get at (arn't they all?). There are a variety of
ways to install one. Having had 28 volts shot to my 14 volt airplane more than
once, I prefer a separate, cockpit controlled ground power contactor WITH
reverse polarity AND ov protection. I like to wire it into the system
on the hot side of the battery so that a battery can be charged without having
any of the rest of the system turned on. Further, starting with a trashy ground
power generator is less dicey when the battery is on line too . . . a sure
thing
with the architecture I've described above. SASE to 6936 Bainbridge, Wichita,
KS, 67226 will get you a diagram. Be sure to tell me what you are sending an
SASE for . . . I get lots of them without a clue and I've got a whole library
of stuff that's been offered for the cost of a stamp!
>I should probably explain that the reason I like the idea of not having
>a battery box is that the other day I went out to fly my partner's RV-6
>and I got in it and the master was left on and the battery was stone
>dead. This was the first time I had to remove the battery box in an RV
>and I found it to be kind of a pain. I didn't even consider trying to
>jump-start the thing, in part because getting the battery box back on
>while it was running was not something I wanted to try. But without any
>"excitation current" either from the battery or jump-starting, the
>alternator won't work, so even after hand-propping it there was no juice
>to the radios, etc. Even if I wanted to fly withou radios (I didn't), I
>would NOT want to fly on only one mag -- this plane has electronic
>ignition....
I really like to see people put in an oil pressure switch operated
HOBBS meter using a single pole, double throw oil pressure switch.
Then you can use the normally closed pole to operate both a light
and a buzzer to indicate (1) low oil pressure in flight and (2)
you left the master switch on AFTER shutdown. Cars have had
these "reminders" for years . . . there's no reason airplanes
shouldn't have 'em too!
>In airplanes where access to the battery is difficult, or time consuming, or
where
>working around the cowel is dangerous once the engine is running, it is wise
to
>provide an external jack for charging... this does not have to be the traditional
>heavy plug/jack capable of passing 70 or 80 amps for jump starting... a slow
charge
>can be done over several hours with a lesser charge current, allowing the flight
to
>continue, albeit delayed... as the author pointed out, with a truly DEAD battery,
>modern alternators are useless even if the engine can be hand propped.... a jack
>capable of passing a 10 amp charge current, will allow you to energize the alternator
>once the plane is running... a cigarette lighter jack will suffice for this...and
10
>minutes of an energized alternator will (if the battery is not RIP due to the
serious
>discharge) put enough charge into the battery to maintain current through the
field
>winding on the alternator, once the external charger is disconnected...
There have been several variations on this theme over the years. I helped
a fellow with the artwork for a hints to homebuilders item last year
in Sport Aviation. I can get the callout if anyone wants to look it up
(or send SASE). There are potential problems with GROUND POWER LITE jacks:
Be sure that the charging source is current limited . . . like a 10 amp
plug in the wall charger. One reader jumpered a lite jack to his
car just to "charge" not to "crank". The battery happily drew 30-40 amps
and burned some wiring.
>You could even get slick here, and place a diode in series with the field lead,
so
>that the lightweight jack is blocked from attempting to charge the battery when
energizing
>the alternator... then only a few amps will suffice... An alternative trick to
the diode,
>would be a switch, to open circuit the wire from the battery to the field winding....
Careful here. Some alternator/regulator combinations don't take lightly to puting
foreign impdeances in series with their circuits . . . regulation dynamics can
suffer.
>this could be useful in an overvoltage situation while in flight...
ACTUNG!!!!!! ATTENCION !!!!!! overvoltage protection must be
millisecond fast . . . use a real crowbar ov module or decent ov relay
designed for the task (Send SASE!). NO TYPE OF MANUAL OPERATION SHOULD
BE DEPENDED UPON FOR ANY DEGREE OF OVER VOLTAGE PROTECTION.
>and will reduce alternator drag during the Sun100 !
PULL the field breaker
>What are you building your battery box out of? The battery is the only thing
that should be made
>of lead. :-) I don't think you could save more than a half of a pound. You would
still need
>structure to support the battery and a strap to hold it. I think it's great to
get rid of any
>weight you can, but the battery box was not so over designed that "several pounds"
can be saved.
From the above I infer that recommended battery boxes are simply enclosures
for keeping
drips from falling on the rest of the airplane. If you look through the analysis
required
to build a crashworty battery box (see other postings on this topic) I think
you'll find
that no 8 oz battery box would be qualified for a production airplane; all
you've got is
a cosmetic enclosure.
>Believe me, if your airplane arrives with an attitude that puts
>10 Gs on the battery in the upward direction, battery separation from
>the airframe is the LEAST of your worries.
>>Good point!
>If it were MY RV, I would be very comfortable with two 1" steel straps
>holding a battery into a snug fitting tray, braced against the aft side
>of the firewall. You'll save several pounds
>>Really? I haven't weighed it, but my battery box, sitting on the bench seems
to be less
>>than 2 lbs (maybe even less than 1). It's just .040 aluminum. I'll bet the steel
straps
>>would be comparable, especially with fasteners. Not trying to shoot you down,
just comparing
>>the two....
I understand. I suppose we should define all the reasons people consider a
a battery box useful. It's apparent that issues of convenience, appearance,
and drip containment are present. With an RG battery, drip containment is
a mute point . . . they DON'T drip. I don't know about your sheet metal
skills but any battery box I would fabricate to go around a battery wouldn't
look nearly as good as the battery itself . . For convenience, any battery
box is a pain in the whatsit. You are obligated to work down INSIDE with
tools to attach/detach wires and you have to lift the battery out from an
awkward posture. A tray with drawbar latched straps makes removal/replacement
almost a one-handed no-strainer.
>and eliminate one of the sheet metal penetrations that requires the protection
that we've
>been talking about the past week.
>>Which is that -- the screws/nutplates holding it to the fwall?
I was referring to the hot-lead penetration of the battery box itself. No box,
no
penetration to be protected. Put a rubber bootie over the terminal and
be done with it.
Wrapup: Understand what you expect the battery box to do for you and then make
sure it does it. If you don't have ground power connections then
a battery box is really in the way of installation/removal. If
crashworthiness is an issue for you, there is NO half pound box
that's going to do it - check out the box in the tail of a Cessna.
May 07, 1996 - May 16, 1996
RV-Archive.digest.vol-bk