RV-Archive.digest.vol-bm

May 28, 1996 - June 06, 1996



      
      I'll send anyone interested a copy of my file. It is a basic
      VFR panel with COM and Transponder no DG or Horizon.
      The file is 80.6K and could be translated into other formats.
      Check your software.
      
      I also have about 60% of my wiring diagram in this format
      just haven't hade time to complete it since the plane is
      flying.
      
      Charles Fink, RV-6, 20918, N548CF, 10.1 hours
      E-mail chfink(at)envc.sandia.gov
      Albuquerque, New Mexico
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Misplaced hole question
>I drilled a misplaced hole through the skin of the elevator trim tab. >The skin is still off the tab spar by itself. The hole is on what will >be the bottom face of the tab. It is a perfectly drilled #40 hole, >just perfectly in the wrong place. It is about 3/4 inch from any edge. > >Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246 >Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC Bill, Just dimple the hole and set a rivet in it. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Chris Edwards <CBE(at)synon.com>
Subject: Great Stuff for sale to help you finish your RV.
Date: May 28, 1996
Please call 817-560-0604 and ask for Don Blessing RV-3/4 Elevator Trim Cable Costs $39 from VAN $30 Two Condor brand tires. 500x5. Used til they wore through my wheel pants. $15 for the pair (Too tall for my wheel pants). Four inch prop extension. Half inch bolt holes. $150 RV Spinner and bulkheads. Fitted to a Sterba woodProp. $75 II Morrow Loran C. 604TCA. Complete with tray, installation and operating $475 documents, and wiring harness. No antenna. Lightweight starter and mount as provided by Mark Landoll $200 Narco ESCORT II Nav/Com with harness. Servicable when removed. $500 Fits standard 3-1/8 instrument hole. King KY-97A with tray and harness. Yellow tagged. $800 TKM MX-11 Com with tray and harness. Yellow tagged. $500 Gascolator complete with bolt on mount for RV-4. Bolts to the engine mount. $70 Starting vibrator for S200 and S600 mags $85 Bendix starting vibrator $75 Amp meter, 2-1/4 inch diameter. $30 Drone and Margolin ELT complete with battery servicable til 7/97. This is $145 a Cessna unit. P/N C589511-0117 Rotating beacon. Servicable. $25 Voltage Regulator (VR101) $8 Voltage Regulator. Solid state. Adjustable $10 Fuel Cap for RV aircraft. One only. $6 Oil Filter mount for Lycoming Engines. Use a spin on or canister filter. $125 Cleveland brake master cylinder, model 10-30. (Purchased for an RV-4) $35 Tachometer. 3-1/8 inch diameter. Used for 232.52 hours total. $75 Voltage meter. Stewart Warner brand. 2-1/2 diameter. $10 OAT gage $20 Throttle/mixture control cable for RV-3/4. (55 in long with 3 in travel) $22 Oil screen housing and screen for Lycoming engine. $75 Oil Press and oil temp gages. Each is only 1-1/2 inch diameter. Lighted. $20 each. Inverted oil/air separator. $15 Tail dragger dragger for the RV with the stock tail wheel spring. $30 Oil temp resistance bulb, 1-7/8 long. Spruce P/N MS28034-1. New/ $75 never used. Costs $174.60 (See pg 255, Spruce Catalog). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Vibration Damper
>A few nights ago, while talking to an RV-4 owner, the subject of a vibration >damper came up. This gentleman said he and some other RV owners have put >some sort of vibration dampers between the prop and the prop flange. The >results were a very noticable decrease in vibration. I will soon be the >owner of an RV-4. Though it will not be a plane that I have built, I expect >to add and subtract just as most of you who are building you own aircraft. > >I am new on this list and have never heard of a damper placed between the >prop and flange on any conventional aircraft. Can someone tell me if they >have experience with this concept. >Thanks, Louis Willig. Louis, I imagine the reference is to the Landoll Harmonic dampner. This is a machined aluminum case that attaches to the forward face of the starter ring gear. It has a steel ring encased in the aluminum housing and and this ring runs in silicon. I believe it is advertised to remove 30-40% of engine pulse induced vibration. The unit weighs about 13 lbs, so also helps to move the C.G. forward on wood prop RV's. It is not supposed to be used with a metal prop. I flew with one on my 150 hp RV-6 for 250 hours. Although I didn't feel there was a dramatic difference, you could tell if the dampner was installed or not. I figured if it did anything to reduce vibration (to the engine and to the airframe) that it was a good idea. Gaining some weight forward was an added plus. I talked with Larry Vetterman about the dampner and the general consenses among the RVer's that he talked to were in general agreement that the dampner was a good investment. Larry also thought that the dampner might extend ring life by increasing inertia of the wood prop. If you buy the RV-4 and are interested, I have a dampner for sale for $ 325.00, freight paid. As I went to the Sensencih CM70 prop, I can no longer use the dampner. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 1996
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com>
Subject: Re: Misplaced hole question
> >> I drilled a misplaced hole through the skin of the elevator trim tab. > >> The skin is still off the tab spar by itself. The hole is on what will > >> be the bottom face of the tab. It is a perfectly drilled #40 hole, > >> just perfectly in the wrong place. It is about 3/4 inch from any edge. > >> > >> Any suggestions on how to fill it? I am thinking about practicing with > >I think I would just dimple the misplaced hole and stick in a flush rivet. >Of course you lose the benefit of having an extra "lightening hole" that way... > >Tom Goeddel >RV-6a (still on those #&*!@ wings...) >t.goeddel@bell-labs.com > > If you do this, put an additional piece of material in there. I had the same problem on my rudder. While dimpling with the Avery tool, the skin slipped off the male die and "whack" a nice new hole in the skin. I put in a rivet with no additional material. This rivet was set using a back rivetting plate. The force of setting a 3/32" rivet in .016 skin put a nice wrinkle in the skin where the back riveting set was. While not a structural problem , it sure looks terrible. I filled it in with micro balloons and am hoping that two coats of sandable primer and final top coat will completely hide it. -Scott N506RV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Vibration Damper
Date: May 28, 1996
The harmonic balancer is really only needed for planes with wood prop's. The wood props are lighter so you loose the fly-wheel affect of a heavier metal prop. They add this balancer which adds more rotational mass to help smooth out the power pulses of the 4 banger Lyc. If you use a metal fixed pitch or CS prop you don't need this. Also, if you do aerobatics, they have had some of these dampners crack and they need a reinforcing plate to give them more strength. Mark Landol sells these (in OK). Herman > A few nights ago, while talking to an RV-4 owner, the subject of a vibration > damper came up. This gentleman said he and some other RV owners have put > some sort of vibration dampers between the prop and the prop flange. The > results were a very noticable decrease in vibration. I will soon be the > owner of an RV-4. Though it will not be a plane that I have built, I expect > to add and subtract just as most of you who are building you own aircraft. > > I am new on this list and have never heard of a damper placed between the > prop and flange on any conventional aircraft. Can someone tell me if they > have experience with this concept. > > ALSO, I will be taking my first ride in an RV-4 next week with intentions > to purchase the aircraft. The kit wasa purchased in '89,, and finished in > 1991. It has 250 hrs on the A/F and about 600 hrs.SMOH on its used 0-320 > Lyc. I have looked at a zillion RVs at Kosh and S&F, but,"if you didn't > build one you won't know what to look for" is worth remembering. So, any one > who wants to give me advice is invited to do so. I don't want to clog up the > RV-list so your replies can be personal. If, on the other hand, you have > information to share with other new subscribers, I guess that's what the > list is for. > > Thanks, Louis Willig. > -------------------------------------------------------- *NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my own and are independent of my employer. Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com>
Subject: HS front spar (HS-614, HS-814)
Date: May 28, 1996
Frank, the important measurement here is the overall forward spar lenght. It's suppose to be "X" inches long from tip flange to tip flange. Mine ended up with about 3/8 inch gap in the center. Your next obstacle will be the "width" of the center flange. The spar angles are to be 3 1/4 inches apart. There is no way your going to get a 3 1/4 web, I was able to get a 3 inch web. Just watch your edge distances. Don't forget to drill a relief hole in the web prior to cutting away the spar/web material. Do yourself a favor, drill # 40 holes in the angles, do not bend the angles yet, lay the the spars flat and drill thru the angles into the web, cleco as you go, do not drill the holes past the bend line yet. Bend the ears, reasemble drill remaining holes. I did not drill the holes that will attach the verticle spar and holes for the inboard horizontal ribs, I'll drill all these later as an assembly. As far as the "Bunny Guide" is concerned.....good idea, but soon you'll spend more time building and less time learning........hang in there. Greg Bordelon greg(at)brokersys.com building HS Frank wrote >And now a question: My HS-602 front spar pieces both seem to be too >short by 3/32" or so. Should I cut the flanges the 5 1/4" inches back >from the middle, or should I allow for the 3/32" here and only cut >them back 5 5/32" ? And should I do the 6 degree bend in the tip >flange first (although I don't think that's going to make much >difference to the measurement)? >Frank. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com>
Subject: Oops!
Date: May 28, 1996
Sorry Dick, I think this one calls for a new spar. Use the skin as a template even if it means removing ribs and rivets if neccessary. I mean: Stike 1. its bowed. Strike 2. dimpled on web radius. Strike 3. not dimpled deep enough. I think 3 strikes is enough........ Most work-arounds end up affecting something else down the line. Greg Bordelon greg(at)brokersys.com Houston Texas building HS ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- Dick wrote.... As it happened, there was a slight bow in the aileron spar, such that some of the holes got rather close to the radius of the flange. Not having done that, when I dimpled the spar, I apparently applied some pressure to the radius such that I now have "waves" in the spar flange. I'm told that the problem is only cosmetic, in that the waves may show through to the rivetted skin. Some of the dimple holes on the spar are a little too shallow. Redimpling might increase the wave, so my question is, can I countersink the dimpled holes just slightly so that the skin dimples seat properly?? Suggestions please.. Thanks in advance... Dick Flunker, Nearing the end of the right wing RV-6A - N326DB - res ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com>
Subject: Archive Contents...
Date: May 28, 1996
Hi Matt, Thanks again for all the effort you put into the list, it shows. I'll check out the search application tonite. I find myself in need of a "List" fix after a couple of days. Greg Bordelon greg(at)brokersys.com Houston Texas building horizontal spars ps. Can anyone tell me if I have that "Other Enclosure-Like Data" attached to this post? > # Other Enclosure-Like Data > I'm not sure what the purpose of this data is, but it > appears at the end of a number of people's postings. > I looks like it might be some sort of encoding for > a Microsoft mailer program. Its about 30-60 lines long > and there were a *LOT* of them in the archive. It > is a MIME deal. Please try to disable this. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 1996
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: Extra hole. Is this a great list or what?
Hi Folks, Thanks to all six of you who responded to my plea. It was pretty unanimous that I should dimple and put a rivet in it. I did so and back riveted it and, after painting, I might not even have to do any explaining! If I do, it will be my microwave persisticizer. Thanks again guys. Good building. -- Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246 Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: HS front spar (HS-614, HS-814)
Date: May 28, 1996
I disagree with your description of the flange distance below. I created a perfectly healthy forward spar but had _accidentally_ misread the plans and thought the 810 and 814 were supposed to be 3" apart. When I called Vans to see if this was OK to leave, I was told that the distance between the parts is an important factor in the strength of the C channel they form. Furthermore if they are only 3" apart the line of force through the edges of the spar do not flow directly into the stiffners, but rather through a short transverse section. This section would certainly become a stress riser and crack with time. I rebuilt the entire front spar and did end up with legal edge clearences on the spar web with the 810 and 814 3 and 1 / 4" apart as per the plans. You wrote: "There is no way your going to get a 3 1/4 web, I was able to get a 3 inch web. Just watch your edge distances." ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: Misplaced hole question
>Hi Folks, > >I drilled a misplaced hole through the skin of the elevator trim tab. >The skin is still off the tab spar by itself. The hole is on what will >be the bottom face of the tab. It is a perfectly drilled #40 hole, >just perfectly in the wrong place. It is about 3/4 inch from any edge. > >Any suggestions on how to fill it? I am thinking about practicing with >a small fiberglas kit I have -- cut about a 3/8 inch square and glas it >on the inside of the skin with the resin filling the hole just above >the outside surface for sanding. I am completely unfamiliar with bondo >and don't know if it would serve here. > >Thanks for any help and best regards, >-- > >Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246 >Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC > Simple to fix; just install a rivet in the hole. If anyone ever asks about it just say it's for a small modification you had to make. John Ammeter ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com Seattle WA, USA RV-6 N16JA Flying 5 years ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 1996
From: "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov>
Subject: Horsepower(chat)
REGARDING Horsepower(chat) Bob . . .nice analogy...never thought of it quite that way when you stated "...15,000 lb-ft/min seems a bit light. 15,000/min converts to 250 lb-ft/sec . . . the act of taking my own bod up the stairs exceeds that power. I think you are UNDERestimating the short-term power of a human. I'm not sure of the current weight-lifting, world record but I think the Russians own it lifting over 1,000 lbs. aprox 6-8 feet in about 2 seconds. If you accept 6,000ft/lbs/2sec - that is somewhere around 5HP! Humans store incredible energy in their musels and are very powerful for SHORT duration. Horses are great for long duration effort. I think I read that Dr. Paul MacCready (the founder of Aervironment and the driving force behing the Gossamer Condor) calculated that his pilot sustained 0.6 horsepower for the human-powered flight across the English channel. James Watt did block-and-tackel lifting experiments with his horses and saw a wide divergence in power. Given the typical English culture for understatement and the fact that his new invention would not have Lycoming realibility - he most likely, severly de-rated his estimates to build a viable reputation. -Elon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com>
Subject: Misplaced hole question
Date: May 28, 1996
Bill wrote... >Any suggestions on how to fill it? I am thinking about practicing with >a small fiberglas kit I have -- cut about a 3/8 inch square and glas it >on the inside of the skin with the resin filling the hole just above >the outside surface for sanding. I am completely unfamiliar with bondo >and don't know if it would serve here. Bill, Thats a drain hole when it's on the bottom...is'nt it? Greg Bordelon greg(at)brokersys.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Speaking of events
>Seaking of OSH, I thought it might be nice if all the regulars here got >a chance to meet face-to-face. I think it would be pretty cool if we >all got together and had lunch or dinner somewhere and passed the BS >about RV's and the internet. > >concurr, anyone? > >Bob Japundza >Installing rv-6 instrument panel Bob, I agree. We did this at Sun & Fun and I enjoyed meeting fellow listers. We wern't very organized and the name tags I took didn't stick. We just met around the RV's on the flight line. Instead of lunch or dinner, etc., I would suggest that we pick a few dates (so people arriving and leaving at different times can meet) and meet around the RV's after the airshow crowd thins out, late afternoon. This way, we can not only meet each other but possibly go down the lines of RV's and discuss different things we see and maybe come across some ideas for our RV's that we can "borrow". During the busy part of the day it is sometimes hard to get to a builder and ask questions. Hopefully, there will be several listers there with their airplanes and we can grill them about their airplanes. I don't know when the RV banquet is, but we don't want to pick that evening as some will want to attend. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 1996
From: dcahoon(at)intellinet.com (David Cahoon)
Subject: Home Page -RV-List
Great job Matt. The Home page look great. The RV-4 cockpit shown is one fine example. I sure would like more info on who's it is and info on the design of the trim/throttle control panel and how the sidewalls were constructed. If any of the list members have not seen this you need to take a look. dcahoon(at)intellinet.com RV-4 overhauling the engine. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 1996
From: Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA>
Subject: Re: radios
On Mon, 27 May 1996, DM Cooke wrote: > Re:I am thinking of using a Val myself. The cheapest I seen was $650. in > Trade A Plane. > > Manufacturers are now making GPS/COM units. These do more than my old > KX99 and they include a moving map display for navigation. They cost > around $1400.00 at this time. Sounds like everyone out there likes the Val. I'll have to consider getting one at OSH this year. I'm not sold on the GPS/COM combination radios. Sure they take up less panel space, but I don't see any real savings in price. Plus, with GPS technology rapidly advancing, it makes more sense to go with a separate COM and a hand held GPS velcroed to the panel. That way, if you want to upgrade the GPS every few years, you aren't also replacing a perfectly good COM radio. Thanks to everone who responded to my request for info on the Val radios. Boy, these informal surveys really demonstrate the power of the internet & this list! The people have spoken. :) regards, Curt Reimer reimer(at)mbnet.mb.ca STILL almost finished the fuselage skeleton. (!) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 1996
From: Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA>
Subject: Re: Oops!
On Mon, 27 May 1996 RFlunker(at)aol.com wrote: > using the .020 control surface skins, so they were not prepunched as are the > .016's. As it happened, there was a slight bow in the aileron spar, such > that some of the holes got rather close to the radius of the flange. In > hindsight, I should have "predrilled" the skin and then used those holes to > match the centerline on the spar just as you would with a predrilled skin. > Not having done that, when I dimpled the spar, I apparently applied some > pressure to the radius such that I now have "waves" in the spar flange. I'm > told that the problem is only cosmetic, in that the waves may show through to > the rivetted skin. Since the skin is already dimpled, starting over with a > new spar might be difficult since I'm unsure how I would accurately center > the holes. The good news is that the high points of the waves are at the > holes. Since I'm using the .020 skins, I'm strongly considering using the > "wavy" spar as opposed to starting over with a new one. However, there is > one other problem. Some of the dimple holes on the spar are a little too > shallow. Redimpling might increase the wave, so my question is, can I > countersink the dimpled holes just slightly so that the skin dimples seat > properly?? Suggestions please.. If you are not trying to win best of show, I wouldn't worry about the cosmetic considerations. If it really bugs after you finish the plane, you can always build another aileron then. My desire to build a perfect airplane lasted until I put my first smiley in my H.S. skin. Oh well. I see no problem slightly countersinking the spar. Those aileron spar rivets are a real pain because you have to buck "blind" and because of the angle of the spar flange bend. Having the rivets close to the bend isn't going to make it any easier, that's for sure. Someone on this list mentioned that he backriveted these with a "C" shaped rivet set. Perhaps you might consider this. regards, Curt Reimer reimer(at)mbnet.mb.ca ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 1996
From: Pat McClung <pmc123(at)airmail.net>
Subject: RV-3 Parts
Knowing I was into "RVs", a friend dropped off an RV-3 Cowl and a set of RV-3 wing tips. The cowl is a little rough, but usable with minor cosmetic work. The wing tips appear to be new. They are free to anyone that can use them. Looks like they could be adapted to many homebuilts other than RV3, if desired. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 1996
From: Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA>
Subject: radios
On Tue, 28 May 1996, Russell Williams wrote: > I had a VAL com that came in my Stinson 108. The radio functioned ok, > but I got rid of it pretty quickly because the front panel user > interface was terrible in my opinion. > > The biggest complaint I had was the awkwardness of having to switch a > digit at a time with the separate per-digit switches, causing many > repetitive taps up or down on the appropriate switches. You could hold > the switch down but it took a long time for the digits to flip over. > The switches themselves were very spongy in feeling without a positive > detent, which compounded the difficulty. Maybe it is conditioning, but > I find the dial-within-a-dial rotary knobs common to "normal" radios > much easier to deal with, and definitely much faster even if you didn't > mind the toggle-per-digit arrangement of the VAL. > > Also, I found the 7-segment display hard to read in direct sunlight, and > the A/B tuning next to useless because you could only tune the station > that was currently selected, not tune the standby channel and then > switch it into the active channel as you do on most other radios. This > renders the VAL useless for pre-tuning the next frequency in advance of > when you'll need it, but it is still handy for ATC sector handoffs where > you want to remember the old channel until you get positive contact with > the next controller. > > If you fly in a low-ATC environment (ie the Unicom channel at your field > and you never change it) the VAL would be ok, but if you need more than > a couple of channels per flight I'd recommend something better. I > replaced the VAL with a King KX125 and have been very happy with it. > > The thousand dollar mark seems to be your hot button, but have you > looked at the ICOM IC-A200? Smaller package than the VAL, better UI, > and I've seen them listed for about $900. The Terra COM lists for $949 > by Aircraft Spruce and is even smaller horizontally, although slightly > taller. Russel, I hope you don't mind if I post your email to the list, as I think you have written a very detailed review and brought up a number of important points. I guess I'll have to actually try one of these radios before spending my money. I don't have a particular price point, but as an electrical engineer, it bugs me to pay over a thousand bucks for a simple VHF tranceiver (AM yet - how primitive!!!). I don't want to start a debate over the relative merits of AM modulation in aircraft radios, but suffice to say that in engineering terms, it means simple and cheap. I'm speaking in generalities now, but aircraft communication trancievers probably use less than $100 in parts and would only cost $200 retail if they were produced in volume - look at how cheap CB radios have become. (although this is even simpler AM-HF technology). But, of course, since it's aviation, you have to multiply the price by 5. And, in general, I have found the reliability of avionics to be less than wonderful. Mind you, they do operate in a pretty harsh environment, but then so does my car stereo. OK, my tirade is over. Now I know why some folks get so upset over the price of Lycomings and start bolting in Chevys. :) regards, Curt Reimer reimer(at)mbnet.mb.ca ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Date: May 29, 1996
Subject: Re: Mounting engine on 6A
I used a dolly that I made that will allow me to move the plane in any direction, including sideways. You have to support the plane when you pull the wood fake spars out to install the wings. A picture and description of the dolly was in the last issue of my newsletter, Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing. Subscriptions are $5. and new subscribers will get the 1996 back issues. Jim Cone Editor, Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing 422 Savannah Ridge Drive St. Charles, MO 63303 jamescone(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 1996
From: Jim Ayers <102337.2252(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: Walter engine & RV-4
>Claus Wintop said; >In Europe a very competitive buy is the Walter engine made in the Chech >Republic. It's not a convertion engine but a genuine airplane engine with 6 >cylinder and 160 HP Walter engine.There might be a CG-problem to solve since >the engine is longer than the Lycoming engine. Does anybody have experience >with this engine? Roughly speaking, the LOM engine is the next generation of the Walter engine. The LOM M137 is the six cylinder equivalent to the older Walter. It should have the same basic weight and C.G. The LOM M137 weighs 333 to 353 pounds, and the prop moves forward TWO feet in comparison to the lycoming (C.G. one foot forward from Lycoming). The Walter four cylinder engine only produces 105 hp, so it is probably not a good cadidate for an RV-4. The four cylinder LOM M332A in my RV-3 produces 140 hp for take off and climb, and 115 hp for cruise. (From my observation, this is dictated more by specific fuel consumption than by engine restrictions. Full power with supercharger sfc is around .6, and cruise power w/o supercharger is around .43) >From my weight and balance calculations, the four cylinder LOM engine looks like a perfect match for the RV-4, both in installed weight and C.G. position. The installed weight is at, or just less than, a O-320 and the C.G. shift forward is just enough to put the empty C.G. right near the forward limit. The LISTED weight of the LOM M332A is 268 pounds (with all accessories and baffling). The prop is moved a foot forward, so the C.G. moves 6 inches forward. Just some general information; M332A The basic 2000 hr engine. fuel injected, supercharged, 28 volt system, air box (baffles) installed, complete metric tool kit. M332AK same as above with factory installed inverted oil system. and the real teaser, the M332B. Same as the M332A except 160 HP. I really have to hand it to the people already identified on this list, and those that are lurking, that are developing a new alternate engine. My hats off to you. I only have to match a prop to the engine/airframe, modify the cowling air inlet and exit, and optimize the exhaust system for a 200 mph aircraft. I have my hands full doing this in my spare time, and this is just a trivial task compared to a full engine development project. I may only have slight idea of everything they are going through, but the effort I see is impressive. Again, my hats of to you. Jim Ayers LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder 102337.2252(at)compuserve.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: May 29, 1996
Subject: Re: Misplaced hole question
>I drilled a misplaced hole through the skin of the elevator trim tab. >The skin is still off the tab spar by itself. The hole is on what will >be the bottom face of the tab. It is a perfectly drilled #40 hole, >just perfectly in the wrong place. It is about 3/4 inch from any edge. > >Any suggestions on how to fill it? I am thinking about practicing with >a small fiberglas kit I have -- cut about a 3/8 inch square and glas it >on the inside of the skin with the resin filling the hole just above >the outside surface for sanding. I am completely unfamiliar with bondo >and don't know if it would serve here. > >Thanks for any help and best regards, Just put a rivet into it!.... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com>
Subject: HS front spar (HS-614, HS-814)
Date: May 28, 1996
You are correct the flange distance of HS-614 to HS-610 is 3 1/4 inches. Below I described the "web" width not the "flange" distance. How wide were you able to get you "web", the part the flanges attach to? Three inches was the most I could get out of my "web". Looks like we have some commonality between RV6s & 8s. Greg Bordelon greg(at)brokersys.com >I disagree with your description of the flange distance below. I created a perfectly >healthy forward spar but had _accidentally_ misread the plans and thought the 810 >and 814 were supposed to be 3" apart. When I called Vans to see if this was OK to >leave, I was told that the distance between the parts is an important factor in the >strength of the C channel they form. Furthermore if they are only 3" apart the line of >force through the edges of the spar do not flow directly into the stiffners, but rather >through a short transverse section. This section would certainly become a stress >riser and crack with time. I rebuilt the entire front spar and did end up with legal edge >clearences on the spar web with the 810 and 814 3 and 1 / 4" apart as per the plans. > >You wrote: > >"There is no way your going to get a 3 1/4 web, I was able to get a 3 inch >web. Just watch your edge distances." ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 1996
From: "Gene Gottschalk ((301) 286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Extra hole. Is this a great list or what?
Bill, I'll know it's there and I vow to ask you about it every time I see you, especially when there is a large crowd around! Just don't go back the archive and look for my postings. -Gene >Hi Folks, > >Thanks to all six of you who responded to my plea. It was pretty >unanimous that I should dimple and put a rivet in it. I did so and >back riveted it and, after painting, I might not even have to do any >explaining! If I do, it will be my microwave persisticizer. > >Thanks again guys. Good building. >-- > >Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246 >Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 1996
From: Boris Robinson <smbr(at)inetw.net>
Subject: Re: Misplaced hole question
Bill, I have one of those too, in another spot. I dimpled it and stuck in a flush rivet. Quick and simple. I don't think I'll be graded off. >Hi Folks, > >I drilled a misplaced hole through the skin of the elevator trim tab. >The skin is still off the tab spar by itself. The hole is on what will >be the bottom face of the tab. It is a perfectly drilled #40 hole, >just perfectly in the wrong place. It is about 3/4 inch from any edge. > >Any suggestions on how to fill it? I am thinking about practicing with >a small fiberglas kit I have -- cut about a 3/8 inch square and glas it >on the inside of the skin with the resin filling the hole just above >the outside surface for sanding. I am completely unfamiliar with bondo >and don't know if it would serve here. > >Thanks for any help and best regards, >-- > >Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246 >Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 1996
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Horsepower(chat)
---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: "Elon Ormsby", RE: RV-List: Horsepower(chat) REGARDING Horsepower(chat) > Bob . . .nice analogy...never thought of it quite that way when you stated >"...15,000 lb-ft/min seems a bit light. 15,000/min converts to 250 lb-ft/sec >. . . the act of taking my own bod up the stairs exceeds that power. >I think you are UNDERestimating the short-term power of a human. I'm not sure >of the current weight-lifting, world record but I think the Russians own it >lifting over 1,000 lbs. aprox 6-8 feet in about 2 seconds. If you accept >6,000ft/lbs/2sec - that is somewhere around 5HP! Humans store incredible >energy in their musels and are very powerful for SHORT duration. Horses are >great for long duration effort. Agreed . . . my comment was with respect to an earlier statement about a HORSE truely being capable of 15,000 lb-ft/min. I suggested that a modern draft horse was probably capable of MUCH more than the standard horsepower . . >I think I read that Dr. Paul MacCready (the founder of Aervironment and the >driving force behing the Gossamer Condor) calculated that his pilot sustained >0.6 horsepower for the human-powered flight across the English channel. I recall his work. I belive one of my fellow students in high school did a science fair project using a homebuilt bicycle dynomometer and deduced similar human capabilities. >James Watt did block-and-tackel lifting experiments with his horses and saw a >wide divergence in power. Given the typical English culture for understatement >and the fact that his new invention would not have Lycoming realibility - he >most likely, severly de-rated his estimates to build a viable reputation. I went to the library last weekend hoping to find a wealth of information on James Watt. They had one bio in another branch which I have ordered sent to my neighborhood branch. There was a lot of publication concerning Watt's battles to get and hold patents on his work (England didn't have a patent office per seh, one had to petition Paralment to be granted patent rights . . .horror of horrors . . . can you imagine having to depend on the US Congress to understand and make good judgment on anything more technical than a flashlight? I DID look up Mr. Watt in the Grolliers Encyclopedia on Compuserve. Their short article allowed as how the rating of horsepower was somewhat arbitrary and perhaps capricious . . . no real horse was capable of producing 1.0 h.p. sustained output . . so much for modern encyclopedias too! I'll continue to research the topic . . if I can find a real text written about 50 years ago perhaps the truth is yet to be discoverd? Thanks for the contribution! Bob . . . -Elon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 1996
From: Phil Arter <arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu>
Subject: Re: Horsepower(chat)
Elon, hi Gee, does this mean I can get an extra 5 hp from my passenger during climb? I think I'll install a different kind of pedals for the rear seat. I don't think there will be room for a horse, even in the -8, anyway it would put the CG too far out. Phil 1% Done Arter arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu >REGARDING Horsepower(chat) > >I think you are UNDERestimating the short-term power of a human. I'm not sure >of the current weight-lifting, world record but I think the Russians own it >lifting over 1,000 lbs. aprox 6-8 feet in about 2 seconds. If you accept >6,000ft/lbs/2sec - that is somewhere around 5HP! Humans store incredible >energy in their musels and are very powerful for SHORT duration. Horses are >great for long duration effort. > >-Elon > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 1996
From: billphil(at)ix.netcom.com (William Phillips )
Subject: Re: Horsepower(chatter)
>I think I read that Dr. Paul MacCready (the founder of Aervironment and the >driving force behing the Gossamer Condor) calculated that his pilot sustained >0.6 horsepower for the human-powered flight across the English channel. > I seem to recall that MacCready used Brian for the English Channel flight because he could put out 0.6 horsepower. He was a long distance bicycle racer in exceptional shape. In other experiments Paul found that the average human could sustain around 0.3 horsepower. I've calculated my own horsepower on a stairmaster. After working out on one a few times each week for over 5 years I can comfortably sustain about 0.4 horsepower (and not much more) for 30 minutes. I do see other people in the gym who put out about twice that for an equivalent time. If I recall correctly, Paul's design criteria for the Condor was 0.3 horsepower but the English channel ship was designed for a higher power specific to Brian's output. I'm just reciting this from memory. Does anyone have the details? I'd love to hear them again. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mailman(at)baldcom.net
Date: May 29, 1996
Subject: Re: Radios
Dave Cooke, RV-4 wrote my kx-99 is held to the panel by velcro....and has faithfully stayed in its location. I would be interested in how this installation is accomplished. Velcro used...the whole 9 yards.. want to try it myself... Judd Stiglich....email is mailman(at)baldcom.net Thanks Dave. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Terryg(at)SceptreCal.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM
Date: May 29, 1996
Subject: Rudder Rod End Cutouts
Folks -- I'm taking a break from the VS 'til the weekend (riveting partner temporarily unavailable) so I'm laying out the stiffener pattern on the rudder skin. I'm using sketch SK6-1, and I've marked the location of the rod end cutouts (although I don't intend to cut them 'til later, of course), and it appears as though there's a problem with this sketch. The first dimension that is shown -- to the lower edge of the first cutout (bottom of rudder) is 1", followed by 2" for the cutout itself, followed by 16 1/2" to the middle cutout. Are the dimensions, as called out in SK6-1, correct? The reason I ask is that when I held my VS spar up to the skin, it looks like the upper edge of lower cutout is going to interfere with the hinge. I double checked the position of the VS brackets, and they appear correct, so I'm pretty sure the problem lies in the rudder layout somewhere, even if it's a mistake on my part. It's all just Sharpie marks now, so any problem is easily corrected. Any help that anyone can provide would be very much appreciated. Cheers... Terry in Calgary S/N 24414 "Riveting VS Skeleton, Laying Out Rudder" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 1996
From: J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough)
Subject: FUEL FLOW TEST
My 6a is coming up to final inspection and there's a requirement to do a fuel flow test. The instructions say to incline the aircraft at it's maximum climb angle and with minimal fuel on board, measure the flow. Does anyone know what this maximum angle is? ..and just how much is minimum fuel? 45mins? Ken ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 1996
From: Phil Arter <arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu>
Subject: Re: FUEL FLOW TEST
Ken, hi Here is part of the answer: Sec. 91.151 Fuel requirements for flight in VFR conditions. (a) No person may begin a flight in an airplane under VFR conditions unless (considering wind and forecast weather conditions) there is enough fuel to fly to the first point of intended landing and, assuming normal cruising speed-- (1) During the day, to fly after that for at least 30 minutes; or (2) At night, to fly after that for at least 45 minutes. >My 6a is coming up to final inspection and there's a requirement to do a fuel >flow test. The instructions say to incline the aircraft at it's maximum climb >angle and with minimal fuel on board, measure the flow. > >Does anyone know what this maximum angle is? > >..and just how much is minimum fuel? 45mins? > >Ken > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: FUEL FLOW TEST
Date: May 29, 1996
In my RV4, I just left the tailwheel on the floor. I put in exactly 5 gallons of fuel in each tank. I then disconnected the fuel line from the carb and let it run into a 5 gallon container that was marked for each gallon. I then started the test with a watch with the boost pump on and fuel selector set for the tank under test. You can record the time it takes to reach each gallon mark. You will also be able to see how much fuel is unusable in the tank. If the flow stops at 4.5 gal, then you have 1/2 gal unusable. The flow rate should be about twice what the aircraft will use at full power. I recorded the numbers (they are at home), I think the flow rate was around 22 to 25 gal per hour. The only issue about testing with a low tail attitude is that the useable fuel may be less when it is in a cruse attitude. However, after my plane was flying, I ran each tank dry (on different flights) and the useable fuel was very close to what I measured with the tail on the ground. This is also a good way to flush out the fuel lines. > My 6a is coming up to final inspection and there's a requirement to do a fuel > flow test. The instructions say to incline the aircraft at it's maximum climb > angle and with minimal fuel on board, measure the flow. > > Does anyone know what this maximum angle is? > > ..and just how much is minimum fuel? 45mins? > > Ken > > -- -------------------------------------------------------- *NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my own and are independent of my employer. Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831 MS: 9530 fax: 512-838-1801 mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com ________________________________________________________________________________ Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text <03C6E31AC884303F*/c=us/admd=telemail/prmd=nasa/o=jpl/ou=ccmail/s=Irace/g=William/i=R/@MHS>
Date: May 29, 1996
From: "William R Irace" <William.R.Irace(at)jpl.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Rudder Rod End Cutouts
Terry I passed through the sketch dimensions aren't fully self consisent stage about a month ago and called Van's. Ken told me to proceed as follows: 1) Layout spar edge with respect to trailing edge bend according to dimesions on sketch. 2) Install stiffeners with appropriate offsets as shown on the drawing. 3) Build up the rudder spar, properly fitted to the VS hinges. 4) Lay rudder spar on skin, and install it to fit. The key here is that the as-built rudder spar with appropriate length and rib angles and rod end locations will dictate skin trimming, cutouts, etc. It works ! Bill Irace RV6A #24019 Starting ailerons _______________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rudder Rod End Cutouts
From: SceptreCal.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM!Terryg(at)matronics.com at Internet
Date: - - - , 20-
Folks -- I'm taking a break from the VS 'til the weekend (riveting partner temporarily unavailable) so I'm laying out the stiffener pattern on the rudder skin. I'm using sketch SK6-1, and I've marked the location of the rod end cutouts (although I don't intend to cut them 'til later, of course), and it appears as though there's a problem with this sketch. The first dimension that is shown -- to the lower edge of the first cutout (bottom of rudder) is 1", followed by 2" for the cutout itself, followed by 16 1/2" to the middle cutout. Are the dimensions, as called out in SK6-1, correct? The reason I ask is that when I held my VS spar up to the skin, it looks like the upper edge of lower cutout is going to interfere with the hinge. I double checked the position of the VS brackets, and they appear correct, so I'm pretty sure the problem lies in the rudder layout somewhere, even if it's a mistake on my part. It's all just Sharpie marks now, so any problem is easily corrected. Any help that anyone can provide would be very much appreciated. Cheers... Terry in Calgary S/N 24414 "Riveting VS Skeleton, Laying Out Rudder" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Re: Rudder Rod End Cutouts
Date: May 29, 1996
Terry -- > > Folks -- I'm taking a break from the VS 'til the > weekend (riveting partner temporarily unavailable) so > I'm laying out the stiffener pattern on the rudder > skin. I'm using sketch SK6-1, and I've marked the > location of the rod end cutouts (although I don't > intend to cut them 'til later, of course), and it > appears as though there's a problem with this sketch. > > The first dimension that is shown -- to the lower edge > of the first cutout (bottom of rudder) is 1", followed > by 2" for the cutout itself, followed by 16 1/2" to the > middle cutout. Are the dimensions, as called out in > SK6-1, correct? > > The reason I ask is that when I held my VS spar up to > the skin, it looks like the upper edge of lower cutout > is going to interfere with the hinge. I double checked > the position of the VS brackets, and they appear > correct, so I'm pretty sure the problem lies in the > rudder layout somewhere, even if it's a mistake on my > part. I have SK6-1 in front of me. I followed this sketch as exactly as I could when I did my rudder, and everything worked fine for me. However, you need to take a peek where that first 1" measurement is from. It's *not* from the corner of the skin, it's from the edge of the skin at the aft corner of the spar. This makes a significant difference in how much you cut off, given the angle the skin is cut to. -Joe -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037 Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg 6121 St. Croix Ave. N. Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 1996
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: Re: Rudder Rod End Cutouts
You wrote: > > Folks -- I'm taking a break from the VS 'til the > weekend (riveting partner temporarily unavailable) so > I'm laying out the stiffener pattern on the rudder > skin. I'm using sketch SK6-1, and I've marked the > location of the rod end cutouts (although I don't > intend to cut them 'til later, of course), and it > appears as though there's a problem with this sketch. > > The first dimension that is shown -- to the lower edge > of the first cutout (bottom of rudder) is 1", followed > by 2" for the cutout itself, followed by 16 1/2" to the > middle cutout. Are the dimensions, as called out in > SK6-1, correct? > > Cheers... > > Terry in Calgary > S/N 24414 > "Riveting VS Skeleton, Laying Out Rudder" > > Terry, SK6-1 must have changed since mine since, on mine, the first dimension shown (which does NOT go to the bottom end of the sheet metal) is 1 inch. I recommend that you do not cut (don't even need to mark) the hinge cutouts until after the skin is final assembled to the skeleton. By the way, I wouldn't make ANY cuts on the skin until final assembly unless you absolutely have to. This is one of Frank Justice's battle cries and I can see why. As soon as you make a cut, it takes away much of your flexibility to make adjustments. Of course, if you always hit things right on from the get-go, I guess it doesn't make any difference, but I sure have lamented a few 'early cuts' and will never do so again. There was a thread a while back about not cutting the hinge cutouts as large as they are on the plans, especially for the elevators. I recommend that you consider not going all the way to the spar flange with the cutout. This hides more or most of the 'hole' when the control surface is in the neutral position. You need some of the hole for the control surface motion (but not much) and perhaps a little more for inspection to see that the hinge components are intact. Just a thought. (I have reduced the size of mine. On some elevators I have seen where they make the cutouts much smaller on the top for looks and large on the bottom for inspection.) Best regards, -- Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246 Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Re: FUEL FLOW TEST
Date: May 29, 1996
Herman gives a good description of measuring fuel flow. I have some comments. 1. The purpose of this test is twofold: a. Determine amount of unusable fuel b. Determine sufficient fuel flow down to the unusable level Note that testing for (b) may require that you raise the value for (a). 2. I would run the test at three flight attitudes -- nose high, level, and low. I would then use the result that leaves the most unusable behind. 3. I would keep track of the time for each gallon to arrive in the bucket. If at any point flow rate becomes insufficient, you just hit the unusable fuel. 4. On a tailwheel airplane, I would lift the mains up a bit. We're talking your personal safety here! You want a higher nose attitude than can be achieved with all wheels on the ground. These planes will climb out with a heck of a nose high attitude, and you want to make sure you have sufficient flow in that attitude. Be a bummer to find out during a max performance takeoff you can't draw enough gas to keep the engine running properly. 5. Make sure that you do not let the drain hose dangle at all. You're measuring flow to the carb, not to the ground. It's not sufficient to let the hose approach the carb, then droop to the ground, either, as you'll experience syphon effect. There are some good books on these issues. Drop me a note if you want the name of the one I have stashed around here that fed me this info. -Joe -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037 Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg 6121 St. Croix Ave. N. Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 1996
From: Tim Lewis <lewis(at)artery.cmet.af.mil>
Subject: Mitchell Radios
I talked to Bill Benedict at Vans this evening regarding the Mitchell radios (I was calling for a price on the MX300). Bill told me that Vans no longer recommends them, because they've had 3 with problems in the last year, and the company provided "less than desirable" service to the owners. Bill recommends King radios. Tim Lewis (Insulated, air conditioned, and wired the garage over the weekend, hope to fly an RV-6 within a week and then order my kit.) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Blpzk(at)aol.com
Date: May 29, 1996
Subject: Re: RV-3 Parts
Yes! I'll take them! How do I get them? I'm currently making fuselage former formblocks, and I plan on making wingtips, fairings and cowlings out of metal, but I can use the fiberglass parts to make molds off of. John Kimmel Doing it the hard way. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DerFlieger(at)aol.com
Date: May 29, 1996
Subject: Re: FUEL FLOW TEST
magic.ca!J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)matronics.com (J.Ken Hitchmough) writes: >..and just how much is minimum fuel? 45mins? > > Ken, you should be sure the fuel is below the level of the 3/8 inch fitting. This is to be sure you have tightened the nut properly which holds the pickup tube on to the bulkhead fitting. If its not tight your fuel pump will suck a mixture of gas and air, and the engine might not run well (as in max power). The flow test will expose this problem. If your fuel is above the fitting when you do the flow test, you will not know of a leak if there is one. The flow test will appear normal. Good Luck! Jim Stugart Austin, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 1996
From: Pat McClung <pmc123(at)airmail.net>
Subject: FIRST FLIGHT - N3XM
Apparently my original message on my first flight did not make it to the list so I have been encouraged to send in another. On May 21, 1996, I flew my RV-6 for the first time. I started the project in about Feb, 1993 and have worked steadily except for about 6 months off to build a place to live. As a general rule, I tried to do a little something each day. I did not keep a written log and did not attempt to keep an accurate record of the money I spent. I did take lots of pictures as the project progressed, many of them close-ups of details of installation of accessories, etc. (I felt time and money records were depressing since they were both more than I wanted them to be.!!!) I installed an O-320-E3D, a Pacesetter 68 X 69 prop, Nav Aid, Flybuddy GPS, MX11 com, and Radio Shack AM/FM w/tape deck. Flightcom panel mount intercom, seats by DJ at Cleveland Tools. At Present, I have about 6.5 hrs on it, struggling around in very gusty weather, rain, haze & clouds, so it is a little difficult to get accurate performance figures. Originally, I had a slight heavy left wing and used the "Pinch the light aileron" technique back and forth and now it is OK. Still massaging the rudder to put the ball in the center. These adjustments are so slight that they take a little time to try and fly to get it right where you want it. Near as I can tell, at altitude, it does all I could expect out of a 150 hp without gear leg fairings or wheel covers. Also, I hope to get a few more hours on the reman engine before coming to final conclusions as to how it is doing. All in all, it is a thrill to fly and a docile pussycat to land compared to the biplane I have been flying during the building process. Any questions are welcome - pmc123(at)airmail.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 1996
From: Jim Ayers <102337.2252(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Modified Rudder (VS)
>Terry in Calgary said; >I could help but notice that you also seemed to have a modified rudder. What's >the story on that? The vertical stabilizer (VS) and rudder on my RV-3 are built to the plans. I had installed a COM whip antenna in the top of the VS per Bob Acher's recommendation. It extended 22 plus inches above the VS. However, I couldn't help remembering something I had read on drag that equated a 1/8 inch diameter wire to a 1 inch thick airfoil. I felt that something had to be done about my 3/16 inch diameter wire sticking almost two feet above the VS. I removed the two inch tall tip from the top of the rudder, and filled the holes in the rudder skin and tip rib with rivets (de ja vue? I remember something about filling holes with rivets). The VS tip was removable for access to the COM antenna. I replaced this two inch tall VS tip with a ten inch tall VS tip that extends over the rudder (a la P-51H (Nothings really new)). This gave me room for the Sport Aircraft Model 2 COM antenna inside the tip. I like to think that I traded the drag of a 22 inch taller tip for the drag of a 8 inch taller tip. And as food for thought; the VS tip is mostly above the higher velocity air for the prop, while HIDING the antenna on the bottom of the fuselage puts it directly in this propeller accelerated air flow (for the same Cd for the antenna, the total drag changes by the velocity squared.) (and I won't mention the disturbed airflow downstream from the hidden antenna along the length of the bottom of the fuselage.) Jim Ayers LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder 102337.2252(at)compuserve.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: May 30, 1996
Subject: Re: Modified Rudder (VS)
>I replaced this two inch tall VS tip with a ten inch tall VS tip that extends over the rudder (a la P-51H (Nothings really new)). Have you noticed if the added vertical stab area reduced the amount of yaw when encountering turbulence? I've seen a couple of RV-6's that have an added strake between the vertical stab and the rear edge of the canopy. Their owners swear that it significantly reuced the amount of yaw when turbulence was encountered. Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 1996
From: Phil Arter <arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu>
Subject: tire size
RV Listers: I know it's unlikely but, does anyone have any data on the effect to cruise and top speed of using 6.00-6 tires w/o wheel pants vs 5.00-5 tires w/ wheel pants? If not, how about 5.00-5 tires w/ vs w/o wheel pants (ideally on an RV-6 with O-360 and C/S prop). My intended use involves mostly hopping around the Rockies to little airports and unimproved strips, so bigger wheels and tires are planned. Has anyone ever converted from 5" to 6" wheels or put something like a Maule tailwheel on an RV? Any info would be appreciated. I hope the final RV-8 fuselage design from Van includes spring gear as on the prototype. Hope you're listening. Phil arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 1996
From: eilts(at)sg37.dseg.ti.com (Henry Eilts)
Ken asks: >My 6a is coming up to final inspection and there's a requirement to do a fuel >flow test. The instructions say to incline the aircraft at it's maximum climb >angle and with minimal fuel on board, measure the flow. > >Does anyone know what this maximum angle is? and later asks > >..and just how much is minimum fuel? 45mins? > Here is what I think, not based on any experience, however: The test is to establish that your fuel flow is adequate in worst case conditions. A full tank, tipped up, presurizes the fuel pickup by the weight of the fuel, and enhances the fuel flow. So, the minimum fuel requirement is to insure that you don't do this. You should use the minimum required to measure the flow (conveniently). What climb angle? If the aircraft is to be used for vertical climbs (aerobatics), then vertical might be implied as the max climb angle, even though it is ugly from a test point of view. Actually, If the aircraft is flown vertically, then the aux fuel pump is pumping fuel uphill. This could be simulated with some tubing on the fuel pump output without standing the plane on its tail. On the other hand, max climb angle might be the maximum sustainable climb angle. This would be the full power stall pitch angle. Hank eilts(at)ti.com about to start an RV6 tail. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: hqb(at)netcom.netcom.com (Henry Bibb)
Subject: Re: Painting equipment
Date: May 30, 1996
Joe Larson asked: > > > > So -- is an airless sprayer an option for painting our planes? Has anyone > done this? I'd be concerned about using it for primer, as I imagine the > primer would permanently gum it up pretty quick. > > Comments? > Airless sprayers are great with housepaint, especially latex-based stuff that tends to be thick. They'll allow you to use it right out of the can, in most cases, and do a respectable job of atomizing & getting it on the wall. Most HVLP & high-pressure air guns need heavy housepaints thinned a bit to work well. All this is well and good if you're going to paint the plane with housepaint! If not, I'm afraid you'll find the airless has much the same problem folks report with their initial experiences with HVLP: too much paint, causing runs & sags all over the place. That same power that atomizes the latex works against you when the paint is thin. You have to cut the power back so much, you start losing the fine atomization needed for a really smooth coat. First-time HVLP users switching from high-pressure air report a similar phenomenon. Not to say you can't do a good job with any of them, but it takes practice before perfection. Current practice in 'pro' shops seems to be headed toward HVLP guns, but they're given a none-too-subtle push in that direction by environmental regulations. Hope it helps a bit. Henry Bibb No project yet; still dreaming. Disclaimer: I ain't a pro painter, either; but I've played around some. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 1996
From: Brian Yablon <brian(at)lanart.com>
Subject: Painting equipment
Joe Larson wrote: > So -- is an airless sprayer an option for painting our planes? Has anyone > done this? I'd be concerned about using it for primer, as I imagine the > primer would permanently gum it up pretty quick. Airless sprayers are NOT an option for fine finishes like cars and airplanes. They are made for atomizing heavy-bodied fluids with high cohesivity, like latex paints, sealants, adhesives, and industrial finishes. Some fleet operators paint trucks with airless since they can shoot a lot of material quickly, and are not overly concerned with finish quality. The choice for fine finishes is your standard high-pressure gun, or alternatively, an HVLP setup. I just received an education on all this from my local paint equipment distributor, while in the process of buying an HVLP rig for my project. Regards, Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com Framingham, MA RV-6A #24751 HS skeleton in jig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DMusgrave(at)swri.edu
Date: May 30, 1996
Subject: Painting equipment
"Larson, Joe" Date: May 30, 1996
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: FUEL FLOW TEST
For procedures on fuel flow testing and all sorts of other good stuff, I recommend the very thorough book "Homebuilt Aircraft Flight Testing", by Vaughan Askue (Available from Van's). Randall Henderson randall(at)edt.com RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 1996
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: tire size
Check with Van's. They recently put bigger tires on their factory prototype RV-6T (essentially a -6A). I believe these are 6.00x 6 size tires that fit on the standard wheels. They've been flying it without wheel pants, I don't know if they have put the larger wheel pants on there yet. Randall Henderson randall(at)edt.com RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 1996
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: AOPA Leglislative Alert
The following letter was in my mailbox on Saturday. Since I know that AOPA generally reserves these "Legislative Alert" for issues of dire importance, and that they don't necessarily mail them out to all members, I figure it couldn't hurt to send it to the e-mail list in the hope that more people will write their congress-critter. I for one am really worried about user fees, and the only way we're going to keep them from becoming a reality in the United States is to WRITE YOUR SENATOR. The letter follows: =========================================================================== AOPA Legislative Action 500 E Street SW, Suite 290 Washington, DC 20024 Dear Randall W. Henderson: Our war against user fees has reached a pivotal battle. AOPA Legislative Action urgently needs your help to win it! You may have heard that the tax on airline tickets, which provides most of the FAA's funding through the Aviation Trust Fund, expired on January 1. Along with fuel taxes general aviation pays, and taxes on cargo and other fuels, the ticket tax was the source of 70 percent of FAA's funding. For a while, the surplus in the trust fund is keeping FAA running, but the balance will run out by the end of the year. The ticket tax was caught in the same fight over the federal budget that shut the federal government down several times and caused Congress to finish the 1996 budget seven months late. But that fight is over now. Why hasn't congress reinstated the tax? Insiders in Washington know why. Certain key members of Congress want to choke the FAA so that Congress will impose USER FEES for air traffic control and other services. We all know that Congress doesn't do much until there's a chrisis. Look at the accident in Cheyenne, Wyoming last month involving Jessica Dubroff. Younger and younger children have been involved in record-setting attempts for a decade now, but Congress only reacted after disaster struck. And I'm afraid the same thing could happen to the Aviation Trust Fund -- with terrible results. Unless we stir them to action, we fear Congress will let the Trust Fund go to the verge of bankruptcy. Then legislators will wake up in October - right before an election - and realize they must do something, ANYTHING, to ensure that the safety of the traveling public isn't compromised by a lack of funding. And in the climate of chrisis, politicians will stamped toward any idea to fund aviation. And the quickest and easiest way to do it will be user fees -- _that_ _you_ _will_ _have_ _to_ _pay_. It won't matter that user fees would devastate general aviation, cost too much to collect, terribly disrupt the aviation industry, and hand the FAA a blank check to spend all it wants. All our arguments against user fees, which have been quite successful in holding them back so far, will be swept away in the mad rush to DO SOMETHING. By ignoring the expired ticket tax and holding the Aviation Trust Fund hostage, user fee proponents are staging a last-ditch attempt to force a discredited idea down the throats of aviation users. These people are willing to let the trust fund go bankrupt just to push their agenda. As a pilot and a taxpayer, you have the right to tell your representatives in Congress how important it is to reinstate the excise taxes that feed the Trust Fund now. We need to preserve the existing system of taxes, not bankrupt the airway system just to impose a draconian user fee scheme. This is the message Congress needs to hear: Save the Aviation Trust Fund from Bankruptcy. Restore the ticket tax before the FAA runs out of money! And no new user fees! Anyone who cares very much about the future of general aviation, I know I can depend on you to speak up. It's even more important that you act today, because your senator, Mark O. Hatfield, is Chairman of the Senate Transportation Appropriations Subcommittee. Please contact Senator Hatfield today and urge him to act to save the Trust Fund. You can write to him at: The Honorable Mark O. Hatfield U.S. Senate Washington, DC 20510. (Or whoever your senator(s) is/are if you do not live in Oregon) Thank you for your help. To say that the future of general aviation depends on you now is no exaggeration. Sincerely, Phil Boyer President AOPA Leglislative Action =========================================================================== You can find more information about the issue of user fees and the Trust Fund on the web at http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/aopala.htm You can find the names/addresses of your Senators at http://www.senate.gov/ Don't wait -- fire off a letter NOW. Randall Henderson randall(at)edt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 1996
From: Peter Hanna <peterh(at)rdmcorp.com>
Subject: IO -320 with foward injector servo
I have an O-320 B2C conical mount for my -6 which I would like to convert to an IO-320 with a foward facing injector. Does anyone know of a model of the 320 that had this arrangement? Or does anyone know if the foward injector sump from a IO-360 is interchangable with the 320? I have heard that that a rear injector sump has the internal ducting for front injector and just has to be milled, drilled, tapped etc. and the rear opening covered with a plate. Is this so? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks. Peter Hanna, Fuse started. Peter Hanna, RDM Corp, 4-608 Weber St. North, Waterloo, Canada, N2V1K4, B: 519 746 8483 X224, F: 519 746 3317, Email: peterh(at)rdmcorp.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 1996
From: Bob Japundza <bob(at)teak.holli.com>
Subject: Saturday RV fly-in
Everything is 'go' for the RV fly in that will be held this Saturday, June 1st, at Shawnee Field (1I3) Bloomfield, Indiana. Shawnee is about 60 mi SW of Indianapolis. Plenty of RV talk and food. Terra Haute and Bloomington EAA chapters are sponsoring the fly-in. It will be at Mike Wonders hangar. He is currently building a 6A and a Harmon Rocket which is now flying. He builds RV's full time. Everyone within close flying distance is welcome! Bob Japundza Installing canopy frame ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ted_boudreaux(at)om.cv.hp.com
Date: May 30, 1996
Subject: Re: tire size
Phil, When I took my demo ride in the factory 6A (red one), it was fitted with 6" wheels and tires. No wheel pants on the mains (there was on the nosegear). It has an O-360 with a CS prop. You could probably get a fast answer about performance from Van's directly, as we really didn't do much cruising. (Hey, it WAS a demo ride; you're not even supposed to fly right side up, let alone cruise!) Ted ted_boudreaux@hp-pcd.hp.com RV6A #22435 still on empennage ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RV-List: tire size HP-Corvallis,mimegw1 Date: 5/30/96 7:17 AM RV Listers: I know it's unlikely but, does anyone have any data on the effect to cruise and top speed of using 6.00-6 tires w/o wheel pants vs 5.00-5 tires w/ wheel pants? If not, how about 5.00-5 tires w/ vs w/o wheel pants (ideally on an RV-6 with O-360 and C/S prop). My intended use involves mostly hopping around the Rockies to little airports and unimproved strips, so bigger wheels and tires are planned. Has anyone ever converted from 5" to 6" wheels or put something like a Maule tailwheel on an RV? Any info would be appreciated. I hope the final RV-8 fuselage design from Van includes spring gear as on the prototype. Hope you're listening. Phil arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: VS Screwup?
Date: May 30, 1996
I unleashed the rivet gun for the first time on my 8 last night. I was flush riveting the first half of the VS skin to the skeleton when the set slipped (user error) and put two light dents into the skin. They aren't really visible but if you run your hand over the surface you can feel the ripple. I assume that this is OK, as a super light bondo coat will probably completely hide them to the touch. The bigger (?) problem happened when drilling out the rivet. The bit slipped and put a small dot next to the rivet head. Once re-riveted, I tried to sand/scotchbrite the hole to smooth it out. I now have a shiny sanded lightly rippled tiny (pinhead) pockmarked spot in the middle of my VS. I have no doubt that once painted it will look fine. My questions for the list are: does the drill dot constitute a significant surface flaw? By sanding (320 grit) the area through the primer to a shine remove a significant thickness of metal from the VS skin? Do small dents in the skin affect the integrity? I hope I'm just being anal here and that I haven't ruined the VS, but since this is my first kit I'd like to hear from someone with more experience. I don't want to be cavalier about the only piece of metal designed to point me straight down the runway... Thanks, -Mike Denting VS skin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 1996
From: Brian Huffaker <huffaker(at)utw.com>
Subject: Machine countersinking too far
Ok, made my first major mistake. (had to drill out and redo 6 rivits, but that's not major). Was working on HS-810 fwd spar flange, and countersunk the center holes too deep. (About twice what they should be) Any way to save the part, or do I just chuck it and start over? Don't really want to chuck it, as it took me about 3 hrs to make the part, and it is already drilled to match HS-802. Can't think of any way to fix it that satisfies me tho. Brian Huffaker, DSWL (huffaker(at)utw.com) President and Founder Friends of P-Chan AW # 467 Biff Tarkiss RV-8 80091 on HS fwd spar ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RFlunker(at)aol.com
Date: May 30, 1996
Subject: Fuse
I'm about to order the Fuse and am looking for things (options) I should consider when ordering. I plan to order the RV-6A with: - Sliding canopy - Step - Stainless Steel roll support - dual brakes. Anything else? The list input is truely welcome... Thanks. Dick Flunker, Nearing completion of right wing RV-6A, N326DB - res (RFLUNKER(at)AOL.COM) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AHanna2(at)aol.com
Date: May 30, 1996
Subject: Re: tire size
>I hope the final RV-8 fuselage design from Van includes spring gear as on >the prototype. Hope you're listening. > > We are, and it will. :-) Andy Hanna Ahanna2(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Fuse
>I'm about to order the Fuse and am looking for things (options) I should >consider when ordering. I plan to order the RV-6A with: > - Sliding canopy > - Step > - Stainless Steel roll support > - dual brakes. > >Anything else? The list input is truely welcome... >Dick Flunker, Nearing completion of right wing Electric or manual flaps? Bob Skinner RV6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: Aluminum Fill
Date: May 30, 1996
Has anyone ever used "Aluminum Dent Filler" ( it's under Aerodynamic Dent Filler in the Aircraft Spruce catalog) to fill dents in skins? If so, what is the best way to prep a surface before spreading it? -Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 1996
From: Phil Arter <arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu>
Subject: Re: Machine countersinking too far
Brian, me again I just thought of something else - technically you would need 5/16" of edge distance for AN426AD5 rivets (measured from the center of the holes to the edge). That might be a problem, because after cutting the flanges off the front spars to make the tongues, the distance between the holes and the top edge of your tongues behind the HS-810 is probably pretty close to 0.250 (mine measures 0.270). Phil (#80005) arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: Don Goodin <71201.1375(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: HS410
The HS410 is to be fabricated from .063 plate stock. What is the best way to cut metal that is this thick? Do I need to buy a band-saw? Any advice will be appreciated. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: VS Screwup?
>The bigger (?) problem happened when drilling out the rivet. The bit >slipped and put a small dot next to the rivet head. Once re-riveted, I >tried to sand/scotchbrite the hole to smooth it out. I now have a shiny >sanded lightly rippled tiny (pinhead) pockmarked spot in the middle of my >VS. I have no doubt that once painted it will look fine. My questions for >the list are: does the drill dot constitute a significant surface flaw? By >sanding (320 grit) the area through the primer to a shine remove a >significant thickness of metal from the VS skin? Do small dents in the skin >affect the integrity? > > Mike, What you describe doesn't sound so bad. My feeling is to just leave it as it is and use a small amount of Microballoon filler (not Bondo, it's heavy) before you paint. If you sand it down you'll remove the Alclad from the sheet causing more of a problem than you have now. John Ammeter ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com Seattle WA, USA RV-6 N16JA Flying 5 years ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 1996
From: wbpace(at)adnc.com (Bill Pace)
Subject: Re: Paying Van's by credit card;
> Just because one might have authorized a downpayment on a kit >with the credit card, does not mean they will use the card to pay the >balance. (even though they have it on file.) They, I think by law, cannot >use the card on the balance unless you specifically instruct them once >again to use the card for that purpose. Thus if they don't hear from you >about payment, your kit gets held up------and all along you thought it >was paid. It happened to me....! > >Ron Vandervort, RV-6, worken on the elevators, and dare I say; Picking up >quickbuild Wednesday. When you place your order, you can tell them that you want the final payment to be placed on your card as well. They will make a notation in your file that you have already authorized it and will send you a confirmation of the final charge before the kit ships (I did this and got the invoice/receipt just today). ----- Bill Pace Life is not so much an adventure wbpace(at)adnc.com as it is a paycheck. (also wbpace(at)aol.com) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 30, 1996
From: wbpace(at)adnc.com (Bill Pace)
Subject: Wing kit crate - what to expect
My wing kit (RV6A) is supposed to ship in a week or so. My understanding is that it is shipped by common carrier, which means that I must unload it myself. How many crates, size and weight should I expect? How have some of you accomplished the unloading. Should I have some 2x4s ready to make a slide with? Hopefully the carrier will call me before attempting delivery so I can arrange to have enough beef available to help me with the unloading... As a side note, I cancelled my Phlogiston spar only a couple of weeks before shipment. They were able to substitute the regular spar with no delay in shipement time. Comments from this list and from Tom at Van's convinced me that it was a waste of money. I ate the $75 deposit, but I figure there's no sense in spending good money after bad. If there's anyone in San Diego currently building a spar and would be willing to let me take a peek at it, I would appreciate it. ----- Bill Pace Life is not so much an adventure wbpace(at)adnc.com as it is a paycheck. (also wbpace(at)aol.com) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: Jim Ayers <102337.2252(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: Modified VS & Rudder tip
>Fred Stucklen asked: > Have you noticed if the added vertical stab area reduced the amount of yaw >when encountering turbulence? I've seen a couple of RV-6's that have an added >strake between the vertical stab and the rear edge of the canopy. Their >owners swear that it significantly reuced the amount of yaw when turbulence >was encountered. I don't recall yaw damping being a problem with the Lycoming powered RV-3. In my 1990 trip, on the way back from Oshkosh, I had gotten use to the bumps over the great plains area. It wasn't until I tried to change the airspeed window, and could not get ahold of the knob, that I realized it was bumpy. With the LOM engine and the VS tip change occuring at the same time, I haven't noticed any change in the air. However, I do notice it on the ground. It tends to weathervane more in a crosswind at slow taxi speeds. But it would be more noticable on my RV-3, since I don't have tail wheel steering. In fact, I don't have any rudder cables, horns, chains, or springs outside on the tail of my RV-3. I just have one cable running on top of the tail wheel spring to lock and unlock a full swivel tail wheel on a per plans RV-3 tail wheel fork. (There is a disk welded onto the fork in place of the steering arm.) Jim Ayers (still) LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder (Grounded by the LOM factory since 5/23/96. No technical problems involved, and was all ready to go to the Watsonville Fly-In) 102337.2252(at)compuserve.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: May 31, 1996
Subject: Brian Yablon
Brian: Sorry to clutter the list, but I need your email address........ Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: May 31, 1996
Subject: Re: Modified Rudder (VS)
>I replaced this two inch tall VS tip with a ten inch tall VS tip that extends over the rudder (a la P-51H (Nothings really new)). Have you noticed if the added vertical stab area reduced the amount of yaw when encountering turbulence? I've seen a couple of RV-6's that have an added strake between the vertical stab and the rear edge of the canopy. Their owners swear that it significantly reuced the amount of yaw when turbulence was encountered. Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: May 31, 1996
Subject: Re: Saturday RV fly-in
>Everything is 'go' for the RV fly in that will be held this Saturday, >June 1st, at Shawnee Field (1I3) Bloomfield, Indiana. > >Shawnee is about 60 mi SW of Indianapolis. > What time? Anything special going on or is it a general shoot the bull show and tell? Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: PatK(at)gnn.com (Patrick Kelley)
Subject: Re: Wing kit crate - what to expect
Reply to some wing kit questions: I picked up my kit with my '65 Chevy Pickup, by myself. Here's how it went - I contacted Rodeway to arrange pickup. When I arrived with my truck, they pointed me to a warehouse bay and used their forklift to load the boxes (first I had to remove the snow from the bed - man, how I miss California!). They loaded the spar box first, which is much longer than the bed. Then they loaded the remaining box - it fit just fine next to the spar box (Fleetside bed style; the boxes fit side by side between the wheel wells. When I raised the tailgate, the spar box threatened to tip but I used my motorcycle tiedowns to anchor it at front and back. The six mile trip home was slow and careful, with an eye out for tailgaters, but I got there without problems. Once home, my promised help never arrived. Impatient to start the inventory, I unloaded the boxes myself using a desk dolly. Any heavy duty dolly would work Ok for the main parts box, but the spar box is long and hard to handle. I managed it, but one or two other guys would have reduced the swearing. In summary, you can pick it up by yourself with a standard pickup; bring heavy duty tiedowns to secure the spar box. A two to four man crew is sufficient to unload it at home; use a dolly to save everyone's back. Hope this helps you. PatK - RV-6A = Left wing skeleton in the jig, ready to skin. PatK ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: PatK(at)gnn.com (Patrick Kelley)
Subject: Re: Aluminum Fill
>Has anyone ever used "Aluminum Dent Filler" ( it's under Aerodynamic Dent >Filler in the Aircraft Spruce catalog) to fill dents in skins? If so, > what >is the best way to prep a surface before spreading it? The A & Ps where I work rough up the surface with a coarse 3M wheel in a die grinder. They remove any particles with a clean cloth and apply the filler. It is allowed to cure until the a/c is ready to be handed over to the paint shop, who then smooth and fill the patch and then paint. I have never seen them do any special prep like etching or cleaning with MEK or the like. Nor have I seen an old paint job where one of these repairs has come away, so I guess it works just fine. PatK - RV-6A - Wing in jig, builder in admiration mode ;-) PatK ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com>
Subject: Re: HS410
>The HS410 is to be fabricated from .063 plate stock. What is the best way to >cut metal that is this thick? Do I need to buy a band-saw? Any advice will be >appreciated. > > > I purchased a Delta 16" free-standing, 3-wheel bandsaw when I started the project and do not regret that decision one bit. My bandsaw gets used almost every day. The HS410 is the first of a long list of components that is .063 and thicker that will need to be fabricated from stock. Hope this helps. -Scott N506RV (Hanging the engine this weekend) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mailman(at)baldcom.net
Date: May 31, 1996
Subject: Radios & Avionics
thought this was worth sharing..after making the decision on what is best for your needs why not call van's for pricing.. just purchased a GPS and van's beat all prices hands down.. ask for John C. in purchasing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: dougm@physio-control.com (Doug Medema)
Subject: Re: Fuse
You wrote > > I'm about to order the Fuse and am looking for things (options) I should > consider when ordering. I plan to order the RV-6A with: > - Sliding canopy > - Step > - Stainless Steel roll support > - dual brakes. > My question: what is the Stainless Steel roll support? Can someone please elaborate on this. Thanks. Doug Medema, ready to install flap on second wing. RV-6A. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE)
Subject: Re: Wing kit crate - what to expect
You wrote: > >My wing kit (RV6A) is supposed to ship in a week or so. My understanding >is that it is shipped by common carrier, which means that I must unload it >myself. How many crates, size and weight should I expect? How have some >of you accomplished the unloading. Should I have some 2x4s ready to make a >slide with? >Hopefully the carrier will call me before attempting delivery so I can >arrange to have enough beef available to help me with the unloading... > >As a side note, I cancelled my Phlogiston spar only a couple of weeks >before shipment. They were able to substitute the regular spar with no >delay in shipement time. Comments from this list and from Tom at Van's >convinced me that it was a waste of money. I ate the $75 deposit, but I >figure there's no sense in spending good money after bad. > >If there's anyone in San Diego currently building a spar and would be >willing to let me take a peek at it, I would appreciate it. > > >----- >Bill Pace Life is not so much an adventure >wbpace(at)adnc.com as it is a paycheck. >(also wbpace(at)aol.com) > Bill, I just received my wing kit last week. It is in two crates and weighs 395 lbs. The trucking company sent me a notice that it was coming and delivered it the next day. The driver helped me unload it. One box with the spars was 9 to 10 feet by about 9". The other box was approx 4x8' (probably a little smaller). Both boxes had skids, although 2 were knocked off in shipping. A friend of mine came by and we moved both boxes from the driveway to the side yard. Two healthy guy's can move the boxes pretty easily. The shippping to San Jose, CA. was about $122.00. If you have any other questions, email me personally at ecole(at)ix.netcom.com Ed Cole RV6A #24430 > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: Bob Japundza <bob(at)pop.holli.com>
Subject: Re: Saturday RV fly-in
I'm gonna get there around 8:00 am to help Mike set up. We'll be there all day and will camp out that night....BYOB! Bob Japundza ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Fuse
>My question: what is the Stainless Steel roll support? Can someone >please elaborate on this. > >Thanks. >Doug Medema, ready to install flap on second wing. RV-6A. Doug, The verticle brace for the roll over structure (windshield bow) on the slider. Eliminates magnetic interference to your compass. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: May 31, 1996
Subject: Re: Wing kit crate - what to expect
I would expect to find the parts necessary to build a left and right wing...some assembly required...batterys not included. :-) Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE)
Subject: Re: tire size
You wrote: > > Phil, > > When I took my demo ride in the factory 6A (red one), it was fitted > with 6" wheels and tires. No wheel pants on the mains (there was on > the nosegear). It has an O-360 with a CS prop. You could probably > get a fast answer about performance from Van's directly, as we really > didn't do much cruising. (Hey, it WAS a demo ride; you're not even > supposed to fly right side up, let alone cruise!) > > Ted > ted_boudreaux@hp-pcd.hp.com > RV6A #22435 still on empennage > > >______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ >Subject: RV-List: tire size >Author: Non-HP-owner-rv-list (owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com) at >HP-Corvallis,mimegw1 >Date: 5/30/96 7:17 AM > > >RV Listers: >Ted and Phil, The factory RV6 (the red one ) also has entirely different main gear on it. It was the type used for the Nigerian project I believe, and is very heavy duty. Ed Cole >I know it's unlikely but, does anyone have any data on the effect to cruise >and top speed of using 6.00-6 tires w/o wheel pants vs 5.00-5 tires w/ wheel >pants? If not, how about 5.00-5 tires w/ vs w/o wheel pants (ideally on an >RV-6 with O-360 and C/S prop). My intended use involves mostly hopping >around the Rockies to little airports and unimproved strips, so bigger >wheels and tires are planned. Has anyone ever converted from 5" to 6" >wheels or put something like a Maule tailwheel on an RV? Any info would be >appreciated. > >I hope the final RV-8 fuselage design from Van includes spring gear as on >the prototype. Hope you're listening. > >Phil >arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com>
Subject: HS410
Date: May 31, 1996
A table saw cuts aluminum very effectively. I use a "hollow ground planner blade". Fellow RV builder/flyer Rob Lee gave me this tip and so far it's worked for me. Don't forget to wear the proper safety gear. Greg Bordelon greg(at)brokersys.com HS lying idle in the garage ---------- From: Don Goodin[SMTP:CompuServe.COM!71201.1375(at)matronics.com] Sent: Thursday, May 30, 1996 11:44 PM Subject: RV-List: HS410 The HS410 is to be fabricated from .063 plate stock. What is the best way to cut metal that is this thick? Do I need to buy a band-saw? Any advice will be appreciated. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com>
Subject: VS Screwup?
Date: May 31, 1996
What you describe doesn't sound so bad. My feeling is to just leave it as it is and use a small amount of Microballoon filler (not Bondo, it's heavy) before you paint. If you sand it down you'll remove the Alclad from the sheet causing more of a problem than you have now. John Ammeter ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com Seattle WA, USA RV-6 N16JA Flying 5 years John, Please tell me your procedure for applying the filler. Thanks - Greg Bordelon greg(at)brokersys.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Fuse
Date: May 31, 1996
This allows you to mount a compass on the roll bar support as SS is non-magnetic. It was offered as an option about a yr ago in the RVator. It is $29.74 and is PN Wd-643-SS and is in the optional parts catalog. Herman > > You wrote > > > > I'm about to order the Fuse and am looking for things (options) I should > > consider when ordering. I plan to order the RV-6A with: > > - Sliding canopy > > - Step > > - Stainless Steel roll support > > - dual brakes. > > > > My question: what is the Stainless Steel roll support? Can someone > please elaborate on this. > > Thanks. > Doug Medema, ready to install flap on second wing. RV-6A. > -------------------------------------------------------- *NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my own and are independent of my employer. Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart)
Subject: New email address
All: Because several folks on this list send email directly to me, I thought it woud be appropriate to ley everyone know that I have a new email address. I've switched from a shell account to a slip/ppp account with the same service provider, but unfortunately, I can't keep my old email address. Old Address: barnhart(at)crl.com New address: barnhart(at)a.crl.com ^^ I appologize in advance for any confusion this may cause. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 fitting fuselage fwd side skins ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Fuse
> >You wrote >> >> I'm about to order the Fuse and am looking for things (options) I should >> consider when ordering. I plan to order the RV-6A with: >> - Sliding canopy >> - Step >> - Stainless Steel roll support >> - dual brakes. >> > >My question: what is the Stainless Steel roll support? Can someone >please elaborate on this. > >Thanks. >Doug Medema, ready to install flap on second wing. RV-6A. > > Stainless steel roll support (vs. the standard steel support) is supposed to help prevent magnetic interference, should you mount a compass there. I just thought of another option...the manual aileron trim kit. Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com) Rancho Santa Margarita, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander)
Subject: Fillers (was: VS Screwup?)
>What you describe doesn't sound so bad. My feeling is to just leave it as >it is and use a small amount of Microballoon filler (not Bondo, it's heavy) >before you paint. If you sand it down you'll remove the Alclad from the >sheet causing more of a problem than you have now. > >John Ammeter >ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com > >John, > >Please tell me your procedure for applying the filler. > >Thanks - Greg Bordelon Greg, Use a regular plastic auto body filler applicator (flexible yellow plastic squeegee) to spread it, but I would not bother doing any external filling or smoothing until final paint time. But see the following re-post .... *** re-send of 4-9-96 posting **** Guys, Why not use something designed for aeroplanes (instead of stuff made for steel cars)?? The PolyFiber (nee Stits) "Superlite Epoxy Filler" is good stuff. It is a simple two part mix, and even contains corrosion inhibiting materials specially for use on aluminium. This stuff is so light, when the cans arrived, I picked them up and almost sent them back as empty! It sands well when cured but, being an epoxy, you need to wait overnight to sand, instead of the 15 - 30 minutes for Bondo. My guess is the cured product is more moisture resistant and flexible than Bondo. Being ready mixed, it's easier to use than T-88/micro-balloons, and certainly lighter. As Herman D. said in a follow-up posting, it probably should be used over a fully prepared (etch, alodine and epoxy primered) exterior aluminum surface. If in doubt, call the manufacturer .... :^) Available mail-order (about $25 for 2x 1qt cans, I think) from Mega-Spruce ..... :^) .... hope this helps ... Gil Alexander gil(at)rassp.hac.com RV6A, #20701 .... building a garden shed (... but big enough to store my wings in .... :^) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE)
Subject: GPS
Are any of you flyers using a handheld GPS unit? If so, what brand, how do you like it, what do you dislike about it. Also, has anyone seen/used the new Garmin 89 or Magellan Skyblazer LT? You can respond personally to me or the list. Thanks, Ed Cole RV6A #24430 ecole(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Fuse
> >My question: what is the Stainless Steel roll support? Can someone > >please elaborate on this. ... > Doug, The verticle brace for the roll over structure (windshield bow) on > the slider. Eliminates magnetic interference to your compass. Bob Skinner FYI, the vertical brace is a finish kit item; you don't have to worry about that when odering your fuselage. Randall Henderson randall(at)edt.com RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: Steve Mayer <72652.670(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: HS-409 spar strips
Hi All, I sent this to Van's this morning and haven't heard back yet, so I thought I'd ask you so that if I haven't screwed up too badly, I can continue this weekend.. I drilled my HS-409 and inadvertantly drilled #40 pilot holes for the fuselage attach points. I missed the note on the right side of the CL as I layed out the drill template. Is this an error that I can recover from, or should I buy new HS-409'S? I discovered the drill error while filing the HS-409 to fit into the radius of the HS-40X flange/web. How tightly does that have to fit? I can make the 2-7/8" center dimension with what I've got, but can probably get a tighter fit. Thanks in advance, Steve Mayer RV-4 (prospective member of the "I built two" club) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: May 31, 1996
Subject: Re: Fuse
>My question: what is the Stainless Steel roll support? Can someone >please elaborate on this. It replaces the steel roll bar support (it runs from the roll bar to just behind the instrument sub-panel) so you can mount a compass on it. Apparently it isn't an option any more, as it was included in my finishing kit. -- Ed Bundy ebundy2620(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: GPS
>Are any of you flyers using a handheld GPS unit? >If so, what brand, how do you like it, what do you dislike about it. >Also, has anyone seen/used the new Garmin 89 or Magellan Skyblazer LT? >You can respond personally to me or the list. >Thanks, >Ed Cole RV6A #24430 >ecole(at)ix.netcom.com Ed, I have the Appolo 920+ and it works fine. I mounted it between the seats just ahead of the flap handle in my RV-6. If I was to buy one now, I would look at the Lowrance Airmap. The display in easier to read and the unit seems to have more features. The Garmin 90 is a nice size which makes moe possible mounting locations available. The screen is not as good as the Lowrance but the unit is sure cheaper. I'm thinking about buying the Lowrance if I won't get beat up too bad selling the 920. I'm going to have to have a garage sale one of these days. Got stuff I want and stuff I need to sell to finance these "wants". Anyone interested in a Vetterman mild steel exhaust system (O-320, dynafocal mounts), one Felix prop, one Props Inc. prop with fitted spinner and prop bolts, one Landoll harmonic balancer, one 4" prop extension, an Appolo 920+ GPS or a David Clark 10-30 headset, drop me an E-mail at BSkinner(at)ltec.net Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Fillers (was: VS Screwup?)
Text item: Gil: You forgot to mention about using the Dacron tape from Aircraft Spruce, laid over the top of filler material and smoothed with the fingers to get a really great surface first time. I finally got around to using it, on plain polyester resin, and it really works. Frank J. Text item: External Message Header The following mail header is for administrative use and may be ignored unless there are problems. ***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***. Subject: RV-List: Fillers (was: VS Screwup?) From: rassp.hac.com!gil(at)matronics.com (Gil Alexander) Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 12:19:29 -0800 -4.1) (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA15421 for ; Fri ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com
Date: May 31, 1996
Subject: GPS
RV>Are any of you flyers using a handheld GPS unit? RV>If so, what brand, how do you like it, what do you dislike about it. RV>Also, has anyone seen/used the new Garmin 89 or Magellan Skyblazer LT? RV>You can respond personally to me or the list. RV>Thanks, RV>Ed Cole RV6A #24430 RV>ecole(at)ix.netcom.com Ed: I've used a Garmin 55 in my Cherokee for the past 3 years or so. About 2 years ago I purchased Garmin's yoke mount and had it hard-wired to the plane. I also purchased and installed an exterior antenna. The unit now performs flawlessly. Before the hard-wire and the exterior antenna, it was sort of a pain in the rump. The little cigar antenna would fall over unnoticed and I'd lose satellites. I also hated having to carry around a bunch of batteries because you never really know when they're going to take a dive. The way it stands now, I've _never_ lost coverage. I fly about 90 hours per year cross country. My flight planning consists of making sure I've got enough gas in the tanks and pulling a string on a map to make sure I'm not going to fly through anybody's airspace. Pretty nifty. Hope this helps. Rod Woodard RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: Re: Machine countersinking too far
You wrote: > > > Ok, made my first major mistake. (had to drill out and redo 6 >rivits, but that's not major). Was working on HS-810 fwd spar flange, >and countersunk the center holes too deep. (About twice what they >should be) Any way to save the part, or do I just chuck it and start >over? Don't really want to chuck it, as it took me about 3 hrs to >make the part, and it is already drilled to match HS-802. Can't think >of any way to fix it that satisfies me tho. > > Brian Huffaker, DSWL (huffaker(at)utw.com) > President and Founder Friends of P-Chan > AW # 467 Biff Tarkiss > RV-8 80091 on HS fwd spar > > Those flanges are major structural components. I strongly recommend you hang it on the wall as a 'learning event' and consider yourself lucky it will only cost you 3 hours to make another -- probably less the second time around. (Easy for me to say.) By the way, welcome to membership in the Build It Twice Club -- we are legion. Best regards, -- Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246 Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: VS Screwup?
>What you describe doesn't sound so bad. My feeling is to just leave it as >it is and use a small amount of Microballoon filler (not Bondo, it's heavy) >before you paint. If you sand it down you'll remove the Alclad from the >sheet causing more of a problem than you have now. > >John Ammeter >ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com >Seattle WA, USA >RV-6 N16JA >Flying 5 years > >John, > >Please tell me your procedure for applying the filler. > >Thanks - Greg Bordelon >greg(at)brokersys.com > Pretty simple, really. Just clean with MEK or Acetone and a Scotchbrite pad. You don't want to remove much metal, just provide enough roughness that the filler has a 'tooth' to grab onto. The filler should be something like 'Superfil', an epoxy microballoon mixture. (FYI, in a pinch, I've made a slurry of cotton 'flox' and polester resin for use as a filler adhesive around the house. Works fantastic for bonding hammer and ax handles to the head. Not sure I'd use it on the RV, though. Flox is a mixture of cotton fibers.) Apply the filler, smooth it and let it set up. It's soft enough to sand after it cures. It will feather out very well, also. John Ammeter ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com Seattle WA, USA RV-6 N16JA Flying 5 years ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: Re: HS410
You wrote: > >The HS410 is to be fabricated from .063 plate stock. What is the best way to >cut metal that is this thick? Do I need to buy a band-saw? Any advice will be >appreciated. > > I cut it with a hack saw about 1/32 large and then hand filed it and buffed it with a Scotchbrite wheel. It was kind of fun to see something with your literal 'handiwork' turn out pretty good looking. Don't know if I would want to do it that way again. A band saw would be a lot easier and is useful in many areas. (I now have one! :) ) Best regards, -- Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246 Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Mailing U.S. government officials
Date: May 31, 1996
In response to the recent posting regarding AOPAs request for letters to our senators, I went surfing. I found addresses for my senators and congressman, the President and VP, and the entire Transporation Appropriations subcommittee. I've inserted this info into a Word mail merge document. If anyone would like an electronic copy of the merge record list, take a peek at my home page (URL in my .sig). If you can't do this, send me a private email and I'll email you a copy. Or use anonymous FTP to ftp.wavefront.com and grab pub/showpage/misc/transgov.doc. -Joe -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037 Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg 6121 St. Croix Ave. N. Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BPattonsoa(at)aol.com
Date: May 31, 1996
Subject: Re: Fuse
Having just gotton my finish kit, the roll bar support on the slide canopy version of the -6 comes in stainless. No need to order it special, just one of Vans minor improvements. Bruce Patton Soaring too much to build ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net>
Subject: Re: Wing kit crate - what to expect
My wing kit took about 7 days to ship to southern illinois. The truck driver and I easily unloaded both crates and it cost approximately 112.00 to ship. chet ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net>
Subject: Re: HS410
Don Goodin wrote: > > The HS410 is to be fabricated from .063 plate stock. What is the best way to > cut metal that is this thick? Do I need to buy a band-saw? Any advice will be > appreciated. Yes, an inexpensive band saw is a necessity, I did without one until I started the fuselage kit but finally had to get one from wal mart. Don't know how I got that far without one. Be sure to use a metal cutting blade (14 tooth per inch). chet razer, drilling aft fuse skins. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: bcon(at)ix.netcom.com (Robert M. Cornacchia )
Subject: Re: GPS
You wrote: > >Are any of you flyers using a handheld GPS unit? >If so, what brand, how do you like it, what do you dislike about it. >Also, has anyone seen/used the new Garmin 89 or Magellan Skyblazer LT? >You can respond personally to me or the list. >Thanks, >Ed Cole RV6A #24430 >ecole(at)ix.netcom.com > Hi Ed, I have one of the first Garmin 95 handheld. I wouldn't part with it for all the tea in China. Really happy with it, no problems . Bye, Bob Cornacchia RV6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander)
Subject: Re: Fillers (was: VS Screwup?)
>Text item: > >Gil: > >You forgot to mention about using the Dacron tape from Aircraft Spruce, laid >over the top of filler material and smoothed with the fingers to get a really >great surface first time. I finally got around to using it, on plain polyester >resin, and it really works. > >Frank J. > Frank, .... I didn't really forget. The layer of Dacron (called "peel ply" by the composite folks) works by allowing any excess resin to wick up out of the wet laminate. The filler I refered to (Superlite Epoxy Filler) is too thick to take advantage of this technique. If you want to smooth it by finger, then a layer of kitchen Saran wrap would do just as good job. The Saran Wrap can then be removed at any time in the curing process, as opposed to the peel ply, which is left in place to cure with the rest of the laminate. However, this filler sands so nicely that a poor surface is easily taken care of at the sanding stage, and careful squeegee work during application will give a good surface anyway. This peel ply is best left for the glass work around the canopy, where the smoother surface left will reduce the amount of sanding required, since any raw resin with no fillers is quite difficult to sand. If the peel ply works with your surface fillers, then the fillers are probably too thin, and therefore heavier, than needed. ... Gil (don't really mind the glass work) Alexander RV6A, #20701 gil(at)rassp.hac.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 1996
Subject: Re: GPS
From: snoopyar(at)usa.pipeline.com (Davi Howard)
Edward, I have the IIMorrow 920+ hand held GPS. All I have to say is, whichever unit you decide to get, "don't leave home without it" I guarantee you will be totally hooked after the first time you try one. I suggest you borrow one from a friend and try it out. You wont be disappointed. -- See Ya! Davi ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: Fred Hiatt <hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: HS410
Don Goodin wrote: > > The HS410 is to be fabricated from .063 plate stock. What is the best way to > cut metal that is this thick? Do I need to buy a band-saw? Any advice will be > appreciated.Yep, get a band saw. Fred ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: Jim Ayers <102337.2252(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: GPS
>Ed Cole asked: >Are any of you flyers using a handheld GPS unit? >If so, what brand, how do you like it, what do you dislike about it. >Also, has anyone seen/used the new Garmin 89 or Magellan Skyblazer LT? >You can respond personally to me or the list. >Thanks, I'm using a Garmin 95xl. It works great. I mounted the antenna under the canopy on top of the rear deck. I don't have the software/hardware quite worked out to download the flight track to autocad, but the package they provide will do that if, like me, you can't remember where you were flying. I have the unit hardwired in the aircraft electrical system, but finding a place to mount it hasn't been resolved yet. A Garmin 90 would have been easier to mount. I find I spend too much time looking inside the cockpit with the unit setting on my lap. There is too much head movement involved for a quick glance. Jim Ayers LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder 102337.2252(at)compuserve.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: How much to ship to Australia
Just a quick question. I'm curious. What kind of charges do you folks down under have to pay to get shipments from Van's. Are they comparable to the charges recently commented on of around $112 for a wing kit to California?? John Ammeter ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com Seattle WA, USA RV-6 N16JA Flying 5 years ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 1996
From: "Philip K. Forrest" <philforrest(at)interramp.com>
Subject: Re: GPS
EDWARD COLE wrote: > > Are any of you flyers using a handheld GPS unit? > If so, what brand, how do you like it, what do you dislike about it. > Also, has anyone seen/used the new Garmin 89 or Magellan Skyblazer LT? > You can respond personally to me or the list. > Thanks, > Ed Cole RV6A #24430 > ecole(at)ix.netcom.com I purchased one of the first Garmin 55 avd's, even before the database was ready. So had to send it back to have the database loaded. It has worked at 100% ever since. I also have a PowerBook 540C (PC chip upgrade) with FliteMap and the Sectional Maps. This has been a great setup as I have a long life external battery for the PowerBook and have made many 7+ hr trips with a moving Sectional map on at all times. It would not matter what the GPS input is I always have a excellent look at my position. I now fly a 182 RG and not a space problem, but will soon be builing an 8 so will have to think how it will all fit. Phil an RV-8 wantabe philforrest(at)interramp.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 1996
From: Graham Taylor <gmt(at)opera.iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: How much to ship to Australia
On Fri, 31 May 1996, John Ammeter wrote: > Just a quick question. I'm curious. What kind of charges do you folks down > under have to pay to get shipments from Van's. Are they comparable to the > charges recently commented on of around $112 for a wing kit to California?? > Here in Perth (Western Australia) we tend to order Kits by the container load. Five full kits fit in a 20 foot container OK, with enough room for an engine too. The container is loaded and sealed at Vans, and delivered from the wharf to a convenient site where we get to break the seal. Cost for our last consignment for 5 builders was 5 x $1200 each, thats Australian dollars, currently US$1=A$0.79c. If you can't make up a container with a few mates, count on paying at least twice that to share space in a consolidated cargo container, and run the risk of damage on the wharf. They take about 6 weeks to get here, and are shipped via HongKong or Singapore. Van's shipper, George Bush, is even more expensive than the Australian shippers. Don't tell us too many more US freight prices - seeing grown men hurting isn't nice :-) Cheers, Graham Taylor (gmt(at)iinet.net.au) RV-6a F'wall Fwd completed ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 1996
From: Alan Williams <alanw(at)netspace.net.au>
Subject: Re: How much to ship to Australia
>Just a quick question. I'm curious. What kind of charges do you folks down >under have to pay to get shipments from Van's. Are they comparable to the >charges recently commented on of around $112 for a wing kit to California?? > >John Ammeter Not sure how it compares but it seems like BIG bucks for shipping to OZ. Wing and Fuselage kit cost US$430 to ship last year plus handling and clearance charges this end of A$290 (aboutUS$230). This was door to door using sea freight. Alan Williams Melbourne Australia RV6A - Building wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 1996
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: Re: How much to ship to Australia
You wrote: > >Cost for our last consignment for 5 builders was 5 x $1200 each, thats >Australian dollars, currently US$1=A$0.79c. Van's shipper, >George Bush, is even more expensive than the Australian shippers. > Don't tell us too many more US freight prices - seeing grown >men hurting isn't nice :-) > >Cheers, >Graham Taylor (gmt(at)iinet.net.au) >RV-6a F'wall Fwd completed > Wow! You guys down under build EXPENSIVE airplanes. But that's what you get for building your continent on the wrong side of the earth! Seriously, I have a daughter getting married in October and she would love to go to Australia for her honeymoon, but the 'shipping costs' for her and her husband would be too steep too! Best regards, -- Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246 Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 1996
From: Dennis Kane <dennis(at)straylight.net>
Subject: Re: GPS
I have a Magellan 95XL, I have never seen such technology in such a small, affordable package. Accuracy, ease of use, and dependability are outstanding. These handheld units are so good that they should be banned ! Actually, you will find yourself relying on them so much, you have to force yourself to take backup measures and follow along the omni/vor route "just in case". I suspect that they are all good (all the brands). I picked the Magellan because it seemed to have a slightly larger moving map screen and the resolution was excellent. You need to try a couple if you can (or deal with a seller who has return/exchange priv.) Since they are all accurate I would place a premium on : Size of the moving map Resolution ability to declutter (things get pretty messy at a 150>250 mile range when you show the airports, intersections, navaids, etc. Respectfully, Dennis Kane STRAYlight Aviation Ephemera ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 1996
From: Kelli Lewis/Michael Kosta <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Subject: Re: GPS
Last year at OSH I bought a Garmen 90 to fly home to Colorado with. Background: I am a draw-the-line-follow-said-line navagator for several thousand hours and was WAY impressed with the handheld. I goofed with it for several hours at OSH trying to figure it out (very easy to understand) and then jumped in the Cub and flew for 13 hours home (can't WAIT to get 232SQ flying!!). The alkali batteries lasted until I turned it off at home (as opposed to the 2-3 hours with some units). The coverage never failed as I have heard some users complain. I kept the antenae stuck to the windshield and never had a problem. I had to divert 100 miles north due to weather and, rather than land and redraw The Line, I punched in 48V (home) and flew direct, picking where I was going to RR&F (restroom and fuel). Still had the map on my knee. WOULDN'T leave home without it. I have taken it on commercial flights (with the front office's blessing) and had a great time monitoring the progress of the flight. 232SQ has a panel mounted Trimble TNL 1000. More on that later this July :>) Michael Kosta RV-4 2860 Fly By July mikel(at)dimensional.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 1996
From: n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen)
Subject: Rear cabin heat for a -4
Hi guys and gals, I am finishing up the floor boards in my RV-4 and I am trying to get all the stuff below decks done (like the electric flaps and so on). In the plans there is a very rough sketch showing some scat tubing coming throught the wing spar and going to a little nozzle to the right of the rear control stick for rear cabin heat. I am concerned about doing it that way for a couple of reasons. First, I don't relish the idea of cutting a hole in my wing spar. Secondly, it looks like the scat tubing could easily interfere with the right aileron pushrod coming from the control torque tube. Does anyone have any hints or better ideas how to do this. Also, should the scat tubing itself go through the spar or should I put in some kind of metal fittings? Is rear cabin heat even needed? Thanks for your help, Peter B. Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com _____________________________________________________________- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Trim Tab
Date: Jun 01, 1996
Another question -- has anyone had any luck with the bend-over-the-tabs method of constructing the trim tab, or is everyone pretty much agreed that the best method is to make a couple of little ribs? If you make a couple of ribs, is the .032 material the right choice? Or would I do better with thinner/thicker? -Joe -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037 Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg 6121 St. Croix Ave. N. Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Elevator Trim Tab Horn
Date: Jun 01, 1996
I'm just starting to build the trim tab. The directions say to "make the control horn from the .063 inch plate provided." I've gone through all my parts, and the thickest piece of aluminum I have left is .032 inch. Comments? Do I need to call Van's on Monday and order another one? (How expensive can one little piece of aluminum be?) Maybe it's time I found a local supplier of aluminum? (Anyone in the western Twin Cities have suggestions along those lines?) As usual, this mailing list is invaluable. Aren't computers great? -Joe -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037 Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg 6121 St. Croix Ave. N. Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: How much to ship to Australia
>Here in Perth (Western Australia) we tend to order Kits by the container >load. Five full kits fit in a 20 foot container OK, with enough room for an >engine too. The container is loaded and sealed at Vans, and delivered from >the wharf to a convenient site where we get to break the seal. Cost for our >last consignment for 5 builders was 5 x $1200 each, thats Australian dollars, >currently US$1=A$0.79c. If you can't make up a container with a few mates, >count on paying at least twice that to share space in a consolidated cargo >container, and run the risk of damage on the wharf. > Don't tell us too many more US freight prices - seeing grown >men hurting isn't nice :-) > >Cheers, >Graham Taylor (gmt(at)iinet.net.au) >RV-6a F'wall Fwd completed > > I guess I shouldn't complain anymore about the cost of gas to drive 180 miles to Vans to pick up a kit. I just shipped a 15 pound package to Pennsylvania, cost $10.00 plus $5.00 handling fee. I complained and whined about that cost. I'm not going to ask what it'd cost to send to you blokes downunder (are we 'downunder' to you :-)). Now I know why that Australian flew to Oshkosh; he didn't want to pay the freight to ship his airplane. John Ammeter ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com Seattle WA, USA RV-6 N16JA Flying 5 years ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JERRYWALKER(at)delphi.com
Date: Jun 01, 1996
Subject: Milestone
Two wings completed on my RV-6 project. Both wing tanks being leak checked. Baloons still inflated after 30 hours. I would like to mount two strobe lights, one on the top of the fuselage aft of the canopy and one under the fuselage. I would appreaciate comments and recommendations for systems and sources. Thanks Jerry Walker ___ * UniQWK v4.02* The Windows Mail Reader '[1;35;40m-=> Delphi Internet Jet v3.012 - (C) PBE ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 1996
From: Ross Mickey <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Trim Tab
>Another question -- has anyone had any luck with the bend-over-the-tabs >method of constructing the trim tab, or is everyone pretty much agreed >that the best method is to make a couple of little ribs? > >If you make a couple of ribs, is the .032 material the right choice? Or >would I do better with thinner/thicker? > >-Joe Joe, I used the bent over ends and am very happy with them. I would say the small ribs look easier to make. I made templates out of thin cardboard and these took trial and error. If you do use the ribs, please note the modification that was published in a past RVator. Maybe its in the new plans. It calls for a doubling plate if I remember right. I don't have it here. I can get it Monday if no oen on the List can supply (I doubt that!!) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 1996
From: "Mel Barlow (IJD, Ct.)" <102636.54(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Trim Tabs
on 01-jun-96, Joe Larson asked about making the trim tab ends by bending the tabs over as shown on the plans.< Joe: My experience was that the "bent over skin flanges" were ok on the outboard end, but I thought they were too thin for the horn attachment. So, I made up a small rib out of .032 or .040. Used a small vee-shaped hardwood block, to get the correct relationship of the two flanges (top & bottom), then adjusted them to fit to the trim tab skin with a handseamer. Since it is basicaly a wedge, you can make it longer than necesary, then cut it off to fit. I riveted the horn to the rib with AN 470-AD4's, then inserted that Assy. into the end of the trim tab and used CS-4-4's thru the tab skin/rib flanges. Been flying that way since '88, no problems. Good Luck! Your Second ??> re. the TT horn, I think you need to find some .062 plate. Seems a shame to have to go all the way back to Vans for such a small piece. How about the local EAAers?? I've got two or three boxes of scrap from my project, which I still raid once in awhile for different jobs (aircraft & otherwise). Must be someone near you with a piece of scrap. If not, I'd buy a larger piece - whatever can be shipped by UPS. You'll need some sometime! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 1996
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: Re: Trim Tab
You wrote: > >Another question -- has anyone had any luck with the >bend-over-the-tabs method of constructing the trim tab, or is everyone >pretty much agreed that the best method is to make a couple of little >ribs? > >Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037 >Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg >6121 St. Croix Ave. N. >Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot. > Joe, I think the bent-over ends look better, are cleaner, and provide less space for junk to gather. (Jerry What's-his-name who built his plane in 4 hours or something bent his over.) I bent mine over with good success. I used one of those vise-grip tools with the 3 inch or so wide mouth (can't remember the name of the damn thing! -- seamer?). Where the tool wasn't wide enough, I started with the thin (rear) edge of the wedge to be folded and bent it about 30 degrees, then to the other end, then back and forth. I kept the surface of the tab against my work table and pushed against the table for a nice crisp bend (still had plenty of round for stress relief). Of course, I had drawn a line on the inside of the tab where I wanted the bend to be. Got a very slight wave in one of them and tapped it out with a light hammer on the anvil part of my vise. Actually the outside one of each end is the one that has to look 'perfect', since you pop rivet each with two rivets and the riveting will pull the inside one flat if it has any slight curve. After getting it looking good, I drilled the damn trim spar upside down, so I am going to build another tab. I had forgotten that I have one of these inexpensive small bending breaks from Harbor Freight, so maybe this time I will see if I can use the break at its very end. I'll report it on the list if I have success with it. Hope this helps. -- Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246 Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 1996
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: Re: Milestone
You wrote: > > >Two wings completed on my RV-6 project. Both wing tanks being leak >checked. Baloons still inflated after 30 hours. > > I would like to mount two strobe lights, one on the top of the >fuselage aft of the canopy and one under the fuselage. I would >appreaciate comments and recommendations for systems and sources. > > Thanks > Jerry Walker >___ >* UniQWK v4.02* The Windows Mail Reader > >'[1;35;40m-=> Delphi Internet Jet v3.012 - (C) PBE > Jerry: I have gotten some literature from the following source and they seem to have quality items at reasonable prices. Also, just saw an ad by them in the latest issue of The Experimenter. You ought to get their literature and take a look. Kuntzleman Electronics RD#2 West Chester Pike Pottstown, PA 19465 (610) 326-9068 FAX (610) 970-9078 Best regards, -- Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246 Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 1996
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: Re: Elevator Trim Tab Horn
You wrote: > >I'm just starting to build the trim tab. The directions say to >"make the control horn from the .063 inch plate provided." I've gone >through all my parts, and the thickest piece of aluminum I have >left is .032 inch. > >Comments? >-Joe > >-- >Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037 >Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg >6121 St. Croix Ave. N. >Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot. > Joe, I started to tell you that you use the aluminum angle to build the control horn, but then I remembered that I have the electric trim kit and the horn is different. But that reminded me that, with the horn on the end of the trim tab for the manual trim, don't forget to put on the doubler under the horn. It was described in a previous RVator. I don't know when you got your kit -- maybe they have included it in your plans. Best regards, -- Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246 Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 1996
From: barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart)
Subject: Re: Elevator Trim Tab Horn
>I'm just starting to build the trim tab. The directions say to >"make the control horn from the .063 inch plate provided." I've gone >through all my parts, and the thickest piece of aluminum I have >left is .032 inch. I ordered the electric trim, so my situation may be a little different from yours, but I distinctly remember getting material for the horn. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 1996
From: barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart)
Subject: Re: Milestone
Jerry Walker wrote: > I would like to mount two strobe lights, one on the top of the >fuselage aft of the canopy and one under the fuselage. I would >appreaciate comments and recommendations for systems and sources. Sounds like the WHelen multi-strobe Comet flash power supply is just the thing for you. You can wirwe the two strobes to flash alternately or at the same time. Mount the supply under the baggage floor. Mount one strobe there too and the wiring runs will be nice and short Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 1996
From: Stuart Fraley <swfraley(at)alpha.comsource.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator Trim Tab Horn
Joe, I had the same problem finding the .063" plate. Look wherever you've stored the parts that came in little bags. That's where I found mine. It's a thick piece, about 2" by 3". As for the bending over vs. making a rib: I made one with the ends bent over and didn't like it much. Then I made another one with ribs and liked it even less, so I installed the one with the bent-over tabs. It gets a little less ugly every time I look at it. Stuart swfraley(at)comsource.net RV-6 Tail Wings on order ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Re: Trim Tab doubling plate
Date: Jun 01, 1996
> I used the bent over ends and am very happy with them. I would say the > small ribs look easier to make. I made templates out of thin cardboard and > these took trial and error. If you do use the ribs, please note the > modification that was published in a past RVator. Maybe its in the new > plans. It calls for a doubling plate if I remember right. I don't have it > here. I can get it Monday if no oen on the List can supply (I doubt that!!) I haven't seen this. -J -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037 Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg 6121 St. Croix Ave. N. Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ted_boudreaux(at)om.cv.hp.com
Date: Jun 01, 1996
Subject: Re: GPS
Speaking of GPS's, has anyone tried the new Lowrance Airmap model? If so, what are your opinions? Thanks, Ted Boudreaux ted_boudreaux@hp-pcd.hp.com RV6A #22435 Getting ready to move to a bigger shop. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 1996
From: Graham Taylor <gmt(at)opera.iinet.net.au>
Subject: Strobe lights
In another thread someone mentioned strobes. The Whelen ones are very expensive. Does anyone have a circuit or kit for home brewed strobes. I'v e never seen one, but surely they can't be that tricky to design. After what we Australians pay for freight, some of us could do with some money saving devices. Graham Taylor (gmt(at)iinet.net.au) F'wall Fwd completed - 80%finished, 50% to go :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 1996
From: J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough)
Subject: FUEL FLOW and Wt/Bal
Thanks to all who responded to my fuel flow question. I tried it today and my ful pum ran for 30secs then died without even filling the gascolator. I have a high pressure pump AFTER the gascolator on the firewall. The pump didn't even put a drop into the gascolator before it died. Considering that its dragging fuel FROM the tank, I just wonder if I have to do something different. Anyway, its gnna have to be repaired now, so more on that later. I also did the wt/bal today and got some GOOD results (or SO I THOUGHT). My empty wt came in at 990lbs and I jumped up and down with joy. However, on calculating empty CG I found that it was far too rear (74.5). The range is 68.7 to 76.8. This basically means I'm screwed!! On reflection there must be something wrong as I have a 360 and a nosewheel (although I have a wooden prop). Does anyone who's done wt/bal for a 6A have any numbers to share? Ken ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 1996
From: J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough)
Subject: GPS
I'm not going to buy anything except the new Garmin 195, out at Oskosh. You gotta see it to believe it! The Lowrance looks good but I don't get a warm and fuzzy about their ability to deliver, plus there's al sorts of excuses about not having the Canadian map. The Garmin is more expensive though. Ken Trying to do weight and balance on my 6a ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: How much to ship to Australia
For the distance etc., that's not too bad. My finish kit alone was 240. (US) to here in Texas. And I understand I was able to save some because I was able to give a business address here in town for the truck to deliver to. If it had been the same per for wing and fus., it would be close to 750, plus the tail (I'm sure it would have been far less), which makes it more than half (of the Aust. fee) for delivery here in the US. That doesn't alleviate the fact that 1520.00 (US) is still expensive, but less than twice the delivery for here in the states vs. the dist to 'downunder', isn't that bad. John D >>Cost for our last consignment for 5 builders was 5 x $1200 each, thats >>Australian dollars, currently US$1=A$0.79c. Van's shipper, >>George Bush, is even more expensive than the Australian shippers. >> Don't tell us too many more US freight prices - seeing grown >>men hurting isn't nice :-) >>Cheers, >>Graham Taylor (gmt(at)iinet.net.au) >>RV-6a F'wall Fwd completed >Wow! You guys down under build EXPENSIVE airplanes. But that's what >you get for building your continent on the wrong side of the earth! >Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246 >Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC John Darby RV6 N61764 flying johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Scotsman Flying Trip
To all who may be interested. I know this is for RV stuff, but today I had a very interesting encounter. Drove by the local field, saw a guy, asked about his flight. Turns out he is from Edinburgh Scotland. Had a Mainair ? ultra light shipped over, and is flying from the east coast to west coast and then going back to Scotland. Had intended to start at Kitty Hawk, but due to delay, started at Sun n Fun, up to Kitty Hawk, and now in central TX. Due to high winds, had his bird in the hangar here, I invited him to our EAA mtg this PM. Very interesting to talk to. His bird is open cockpit, for two, but he has the back seat filled with a tent, clothes etc. Cruises about 50-60 mph, tells a story of one leg in No. Carolina of 23 miles, first 20 miles with ground speed of 30 mph, last 3 miles at gs of 4, yes, > 4 < mph. He appears to be enjoying his trip very much. Left Stephenville TX at about 1730 today, hoping to get to a place just NE of Abilene tonight. Is headed west along interstate 20 to Calif. He has a web page so you can keep up with news of his trip. It is: http://users.aol.com/raoulzzz/flying/scotsman.htm. I tried it and can't get into AOL, something about user denied or so. Any suggestions as to how to get into that? For those of you who aren't interested, I apologize, hope the rest of you find it of interest that some one is enjoying flying in the rough. John D John Darby RV6 N61764 flying johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 1996
From: dcahoon(at)intellinet.com (David Cahoon)
Subject: RV-4 Canopy problems
This week we trimmed my canopy. It was trimmed as tall a possible, cutting near or on the mold line. The forward portion was trimmed to slope up as shown in the plans. It seems that no matter what I do, the canopy is going to just come even with the front skin. this does not allow me to flare a fillet unless I extend over the boot cowl about 1/2 to 1". I wonder how this is going to look. Anyone else have this problem? David Cahoon - Jonesboro, Arkansas "Home of Wastewater" and Bill Clintons next courtroom appearence. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Trim Tab doubling plate
>> I used the bent over ends and am very happy with them. I would say the >> small ribs look easier to make. I made templates out of thin cardboard and >> these took trial and error. If you do use the ribs, please note the >> modification that was published in a past RVator. Maybe its in the new >> plans. It calls for a doubling plate if I remember right. I don't have it >> here. I can get it Monday if no oen on the List can supply (I doubt that!!) > >I haven't seen this. Some builders have had trouble with trim tabs cracking. The fix was in one of the RVators within the last year, I think. It involves a right angle piece that ties the trim tab horn area solidly to the trim tab spar. If the tab is built, you dril the horn off & put this piece under it and drill in on & pop rivet. Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 1996
From: joehine(at)mi.net (joehine)
Subject: Re: How much to ship to Australia
>I guess I shouldn't complain anymore about the cost of gas to drive 180 >miles to Vans to pick up a kit. I just shipped a 15 pound package to >Pennsylvania, cost $10.00 plus $5.00 handling fee. I complained and whined >about that cost. I'm not going to ask what it'd cost to send to you blokes >downunder (are we 'downunder' to you :-)). > >Now I know why that Australian flew to Oshkosh; he didn't want to pay the >freight to ship his airplane. > > >John Ammeter >ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com >Seattle WA, USA >RV-6 N16JA >Flying 5 years > John, and all others who where making oooh and awwh sounds at these costs to ship down under. Ask me about shipping to and building in eastern Canada. It has been a while since I shipped large kits from vans but it cost me about 700 canadian (1Cdn = approx. .81 US) to ship my kits here. Believe it or not, I shipped my tail kit about 10 years ago by air freight because it was CHEAPER than by truck. Just for that kit though, the others were more because of their size. Now for the kicker. When I picked the kits up I had to pay 12% federal sales tax on the invoice price converted to canadian dollars. Then, the province I live in (New Brunswick) has a 11% provicial sales tax that had to be paid on the TOLAL of the invoice price and the 12% federal tax. This is all after the price of everything we buy is inflated by approx 20% because of the exchange rate. (remember the "free" health care canadians enjoy) We build expensive airplanes in Canada as well. (worth it though) Joe Joe joehine(at)mi.net 506-452-1072 Home 506-452-3495 Work ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 1996
From: Claus Wintop <wintop(at)post.omnitel.net>
Subject: Me and Lithuania
continuation So, my instructor is well known to especially a lot of pilots from Lufthansa and Austrian Airlines, who come to Lithuania once or twice a year for 5-10 day to learn aerobatics to get an edge in their commercial flying. His name is Leonas Jonys. He has participated in many competitions, but is not famous as an individual champion. His countryman Jurgis Kairis, is much more famous in that respect. Leonas Jonys is famous as an instructor. Under the former Soviet system, Lithuania was the republics that was the best in aerobatics. Kairis was one of the best test pilots the Sukoi factory, which gave him one of those unique airplane at the time. Even if he was not Russian, Leonas Jonys was deputy coach of the Soviet aerobatic team. He is now chief instructor at Vilnius Airclub, Kyviskes airfield. I have had the fortune of having him as instuctor for PPL in Cessna 152 and have tried just a little aerobatics. This summer I hope to lear more af that exciting decipline. In Kyviske one hour whith instructor in a Jak-52 cost 135 USD. About RV, a partner and I hope to build an RV-4 with a LOM 140 HP engine. Claus Wintop ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 1996
From: Claus Wintop <wintop(at)post.omnitel.net>
Subject: Me and Lithuania
Have you ever heard of a country called Lithuania. It is one of the Baltic countries, close to the Nordic countries and Scandinavia, where I come from. I work a the Danish Embassy in the capital of Lithuania, i.e. Vilnius. We came here in March 1994, when the economic situation turned around. Today the only problem of beeing here is that you can't get enough fresh fish and seafood, but there is plenty of excellent tenderloin, vegetables and other food. The landscape of the country is beautiful. There are 4.000 lakes in Lithuanis and a third of the country is covered by forest. Talking about GPS. Yesterday I went on a PFT cross country flight with my instructor from Vilnius to Kaunas (the capital between the two world wars, when Poland occupied the Vilnius region). It was beautiful. I have a Garmin 95XL GPS that works very good. The only problem is that the batteries only last three hours. They are NiCa, but should be available in NiMh used for mobile phones that would last much longer. Does anyone know of availability of these batteries for other purposes than phones. As the first foreigner after the independance of Lithuanis I got my licence in August 1995. Moreover my instructor was is of the worlds best instructor in aerobatics, which I have tried a bit, but have much more to learn about. More to follow (I have a computer problem with long e-mails). Claus Wintop ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 1996
From: Rick Bottiglieri <Rick_Bot(at)Enternet.com.au>
Subject: RV8
Can anyone tell me if Van's has relised the RV8 as yet and how much is it. Rick.G. Bottiglieri Reply Address: Email : rick_bot(at)enternet.com.au Postal: P.O Box 1111 Fitzroy North Victoria Austrailia 3068 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Jun 02, 1996
Subject: Re: Rear cabin heat for a -4
Is rear cabin >heat even needed? > >Thanks for your help, Peter B. Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com Peter: I have flown down to 11 degrees F and IMHO the answer is no. I have a 2 tube muff and get plenty of heat that works its way to the backseater. I've had no complaints. Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 02, 1996
Subject: -4 canopies
This week we trimmed my canopy. It was trimmed as tall a possible, cutting near or on the mold line. The forward portion was trimmed to slope up as shown in the plans. It seems that no matter what I do, the canopy is going to just come even with the front skin. this does not allow me to flare a fillet unless I extend over the boot cowl about 1/2 to 1". I wonder how this is going to look. Anyone else have this problem? David Cahoon - Jonesboro, Arkansas "Home of Wastewater" and Bill Clintons next courtroom appearence. David: most I've seen are done like you say yours will wind up. Good luck on the skirts- I had to use a third peice to make up the rearmost section of the skirt, similiar to what Herman Dierks had done. Check Six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jperri(at)interserv.com
Date: Jun 02, 1996
Subject: Re: GPS
I own two. I have been using the Garmin 95XL and can recommend it highly. I have just recently received a new King KLX-100 GPS/Comm and the jury is still out. I am a little disappointed in the fact that both special use airspace and intersections were removed from the data base. The unit is quite hard on battery life and a limiting circuit on the transmitter cuts off the TX when the voltage drops down to a pre-set limit. Other than that this is a fine unit and has many great features which make it a natural for a second or backup Nav/Comm. Rv-6 still flying 400hrs. + JMP ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 02, 1996
Subject: Re: Milestone
>Two wings completed on my RV-6 project. Both wing tanks being leak >checked. Baloons still inflated after 30 hours. > > I would like to mount two strobe lights, one on the top of the >fuselage aft of the canopy and one under the fuselage. I would >appreaciate comments and recommendations for systems and sources. Tanks: Congrad's on non-leaking tanks! Strobes: You may be better off to mount the stroes on the wing tips and on the tail in conjuction with the white tail strobe. A strobe just behind the canopy will definately be a distraction when flying after dark. As will a stobe on the top of the VS as it will illuminate the wings after dark. Ok on the belly strobe if you still feel you need it. Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 02, 1996
Subject: Re: How much to ship to Australia
> >Not sure how it compares but it seems like BIG bucks for shipping to OZ. >Wing and Fuselage kit cost US$430 to ship last year plus handling and >clearance charges this end of A$290 (aboutUS$230). Interesting. As a side note, if anyone is planning on moving to Idaho, don't do it until AFTER you finish your RV. 7 months ago I received my fuselage kit at a cost of $100. 3 months ago I received my finish kit (basically same size and weight) at a cost of $264! Hmmm, says I. I called Van's and then the shipper, and found out that apparently when they re-negotiated their contract with Roadway they were able to get a little better deal on the rest of the country by feeding Idaho to the lions. This seems pretty ridiculous since I only live 350 miles from the factory. When I ordered the kit I was quoted in the ballpark of $120. I was not amused when the bill showed up. I also ordered an engine shortly afterward, was quoted $105, and paid $196. Had I known this I would have picked them up myself. Anyway, enough ranting; caveat emptor! Ed Bundy ebundy2620(at)aol.com (putting fuse on gear) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 1996
From: Boris Robinson <smbr(at)inetw.net>
Subject: Re: FUEL FLOW and Wt/Bal
> >I have a high pressure pump AFTER the gascolator on the firewall. > Question: Is it standard to put the high pressure pump AFTER the gascolator? If your first pump fails can the pump after the gascolator suck in air? Gascolators are not meant for negative pressure. I have no experience with this -- just a thought. Boris N51br ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAINPOOF(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 02, 1996
Subject: Re: GPS
I have a Magellan Skyblazer XL with the moving map and the LT without for a backup. I have never needed the backup and have two years use on the XL. I very seldom use the moving map. I bought the surface mount antenna and mounted it high on the inside of the co-pilot windshied. I have made two trips to Alaska, have flown over all parts of the western half of Canada and the US and have never lost a waypoint. The sattilites are picked up before runup is complete and the unit is the most user friendly in my opinion. I started with a Trimble but it was harder to remember the commands if I was away from it for awhile. It also lost stations in Canada and was slower to pick up the satilites. I wouldn't fly cross country, especially in a Alaska or Canada, without one. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 1996
From: Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA>
Subject: Re: HS410
On Fri, 31 May 1996, Scott Gesele wrote: > >The HS410 is to be fabricated from .063 plate stock. What is the best way to > >cut metal that is this thick? Do I need to buy a band-saw? Any advice will be > >appreciated. > > > I purchased a Delta 16" free-standing, 3-wheel bandsaw when I started the > project and do not regret that decision one bit. My bandsaw gets used > almost every day. The HS410 is the first of a long list of components that > is .063 and thicker that will need to be fabricated from stock. I second this. A bandsaw is pretty much mandatory, IMHO. A cheapie is good enough. I have a 2 wheel Delta 8" and it works just fine. I tried a real cheap 3 wheeler from Walmart, but it had too many plastic parts for my liking. One thing to look for in low priced bandsaws are the presence or absence of ball bearings. You gotta have em on the main blade wheels, and preferably on the blade guides as well. That was the main difference I noticed between the bargain-basement bandsaws (i.e. Walmart) and the Delta. I suppose you could do all your cutting with a hacksaw blade wrapped with a rag, but no thanks :) A hand held jigsaw would probably be adequate, but the bandsaw is just soooo much easier and nicer to use, I dread having to resort to the jigsaw. If a piece is too long for the bandsaw I just use a manual hacksaw. It cuts through 1/8 x 1" angle in no time. Incidentally, I found I have had to make dozens of little wooden spacer blocks, jig parts etc and the bandsaw is a godsend for this as well. Curt ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 1996
From: Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA>
Subject: Re: Wing kit crate - what to expect
On Fri, 31 May 1996, EDWARD COLE wrote: > Bill, > I just received my wing kit last week. It is in two crates and weighs > 395 lbs. The trucking company sent me a notice that it was coming and > delivered it the next day. The driver helped me unload it. One box with > the spars was 9 to 10 feet by about 9". The other box was approx 4x8' > (probably a little smaller). Both boxes had skids, although 2 were > knocked off in shipping. A friend of mine came by and we moved both Just a note here: My spar box was just over 14 feet long. I think it has to be since it includes the two 14'2" fuselage longeron angles, unless they are doing things differently now (I received my wing kit in Dec. 95). Curt ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 1996
From: Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA>
Subject: Re: Trim Tab
On Sat, 1 Jun 1996, Joe Larson wrote: > Another question -- has anyone had any luck with the bend-over-the-tabs > method of constructing the trim tab, or is everyone pretty much agreed > that the best method is to make a couple of little ribs? > > If you make a couple of ribs, is the .032 material the right choice? Or > would I do better with thinner/thicker? Joe, I used .016, figuring that the bend over method would essentially give you .016 ribs anyway. Since these ribs are so tiny, I think even .016 is overstrength, so why add weight? Curt ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 1996
From: Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA>
Subject: Re: How much to ship to Australia
On Sun, 2 Jun 1996, joehine wrote: > When I picked the kits up I had to pay 12% federal sales tax on the invoice > price converted to canadian dollars. Then, the province I live in (New > Brunswick) has a 11% provicial sales tax that had to be paid on the TOLAL of > the invoice price and the 12% federal tax. This is all after the price of > everything we buy is inflated by approx 20% because of the exchange rate. > (remember the "free" health care canadians enjoy) Just a note to prospective Canadian RV builders: Joe must have imported his kits before the introduction of the much beloved GST (goods and services tax). You now have to pay GST (7%) and provincial tax (7% in my province). I believe in New Brunswick it would now be 15% total tax. The old federal tax no longer applies. I suppose this is one good thing about the GST. There is no duty on the kits as it is considered "aluminum sheet stock - unworked". I know there are some stamped and formed parts, but with the amount of work in building an RV, I had no problem with declaring the kit to be "unworked"! Curt ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 1996
From: Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com>
Subject: Re: FUEL FLOW and Wt/Bal
J.Ken Hitchmough wrote: > > Thanks to all who responded to my fuel flow question. I tried it today and my > ful pum ran for 30secs then died without even filling the gascolator. > I have a high pressure pump AFTER the gascolator on the firewall. The pump > didn't even put a drop into the gascolator before it died. Considering that > its dragging fuel FROM the tank, I just wonder if I have to do something > different. > > Anyway, its gnna have to be repaired now, so more on that later. > > I also did the wt/bal today and got some GOOD results (or SO I THOUGHT). > > My empty wt came in at 990lbs and I jumped up and down with joy. > > However, on calculating empty CG I found that it was far too rear (74.5). The > range is 68.7 to 76.8. This basically means I'm screwed!! > > On reflection there must be something wrong as I have a 360 and a nosewheel > (although I have a wooden prop). > > Does anyone who's done wt/bal for a 6A have any numbers to share? > > Ken Ken IMHO fuel Elec fuel pump will work better before the gasculator, on most of the RVs Ive been around you can not drain the gasculator with out running the elec. fuel pump. (But then what do I know the wheel is on the wrong end of my RV-6) -- Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First Flight July 14, 1989 :-) jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 1996
From: joehine(at)mi.net (joehine)
Subject: Re: Strobe lights
>In another thread someone mentioned strobes. The Whelen ones are very >expensive. Does anyone have a circuit or kit for home brewed strobes. I'v >e never seen one, but surely they can't be that tricky to design. After >what we Australians pay for freight, some of us could do with some money >saving devices. > > >Graham Taylor (gmt(at)iinet.net.au) >F'wall Fwd completed - 80%finished, 50% to go :-) > > Grayham, If you know anyone who has anything to do with installing emergancy light bars on police or emergancy vehicles, see how much the parts are for them. I am in the RCMP here in canada and I was picking up a new vehcile one day at the facility that installs the equipment and I was looking at a light bar they were dismantalling for parts. The strobe power unit in this light bar was identical to the one installed in my RV4. I bought mine at sun and fun second hand and didn't need one. The light units in this light bar appeared sutable to be adaped for aircraft use as well. The part was manufactured by whelen and appeared to be identical in all aspects with the aircraft unit I have. I would be willing to bet that whelens price for this unit if it is to be installed in a emergancy light bar is far less that the aircraft units. Just an idea. cheers Joe joehine(at)mi.net 506-452-1072 Home 506-452-3495 Work ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Re: Strobe lights
Date: Jun 02, 1996
> In another thread someone mentioned strobes. The Whelen ones are very > expensive. Does anyone have a circuit or kit for home brewed strobes. I'v > e never seen one, but surely they can't be that tricky to design. After > what we Australians pay for freight, some of us could do with some money > saving devices. Note that before starting my RV, I called the local FAA field office to find out what they had to say about it. One thing he specifically told me was that they want TSO'd lights. This may not apply to the Aussies, but I thought I would mention the concern. -Joe -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037 Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg 6121 St. Croix Ave. N. Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: av8r(at)hic.net
Date: Jun 02, 1996
Subject: Re: FUEL FLOW and Wt/Bal
My empty wt came in at 990lbs and I jumped up and down with joy. >However, on calculating empty CG I found that it was far too rear >(74.5). The range is 68.7 to 76.8. This basically means I'm screwed!! >On reflection there must be something wrong as I have a 360 and a >nosewheel >(although I have a wooden prop). >Does anyone who's done wt/bal for a 6A have any numbers to share? >Ken Hi Ken, Just Did my W&B a couple of weeks ago, and maybe can help... First up, I don't believe your CG - something ain't right. My $0.02.. Was the plane level when you weighed it? the longeron at the cockpit must be level.. I had the mains on about 4" blocks to get this. Second,... what type of scales - I borrowed the "bathroom scale with lever" type from my EAA chapter and did not get good results - weighing the plane on the concrete was ok - but when I went to "level flight attitude", - i.e. with the scales blocked up - the weight changed by some 26lbs - It seems that these type of scales are very prone to inaccuracy if they are not on a very firm surface. I finally borrowed a set of the real aircraft platform scales and they agreed with the "concrete readings" even when elevated. With an 0360 up front, my guess is that you are reading light on the nose - 990 is almost unheard of for a 6A - mine is a bit "fat" (like me!!) coming in at 1140 - but full IFR and a c/s prop on an o-320. I made the Gross 1800. empty CG is at 68.5 - and I basically cant get it out of range - at 1800 calculated with 100lbs baggage, 2 BIG people (220 each) and reduced fuel I'm still comfortably inside the envelope. So mate, I think if you even her up, get your hands on some good scales and do it again, you will maybe not like the MT weight that you get - but your CG will be OK - let me know how you get on... Hope this Helps.. Rob Lee FLYING RV6A - N517RL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 1996
From: Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)interhop.net>
Subject: Re: GPS
Ed., I have a Garmin 90 which I use all the time in my Cherokee, mounted on the Yoke. For my RV 6A I am mounting it on the instrument panel, right in front of me, using velcro, but wired into the aircraft. I will leave the antenna in place, but I may have to cut a hole in the aluminum above it. I find in the Cherokee the reception is fine with the antenna still attached, so there seems little point in mounting it remotely. It should be easy to read at that distance, but I haven't actually done it yet, I am still a few months away from flying the RV. Incidentally I wonder how I ever flew without a GPS. John ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 1996
From: billphil(at)ix.netcom.com (William Phillips )
Subject: Announcement From the OMABP
Announcement from the OMABP (Old Mens Airplane Building Project) Well, guess what. You can really fly behind a car engine after all. Im living proof. I flew the (r V-6 a) down the runway a few days ago to prove it was an airplane and Jess Meyers took it up to pattern altitude today for a more comprehensive shakedown. I dont have great engineering numbers for all of you number crunchers but I will soon. Jess and I are going to trade flights right now because our perspectives are very different. I want accurate data and Jess is willing to take more risks pushing the envelope and testing the new mods etc. He didnt push the envelope today at all, as he shouldnt. He was more concerned with identifying problems and surviving if something catastrophic happened. So what Im about to tell you is not the ultimate performance envelope, its a report on a safe and sane test flight. The airport is at around 2000 msl. The OAT was 85 degrees F. Jess came in on the power slowly during the roll. He only got full power a couple of seconds before he rotated. He kept the nose down and climbed at around 100mph indicated. The Warp-Drive prop performed fine. Its pitched at 17 degrees (actually its at 69x63 for our initial trials). The airplane was as straight as a lawn dart (and I noticed that the other day too, almost perfect rigging). He backed the power off slightly during the climb but indicated about 1200 ft/min on the VSI. There were no rolling tendencies nor was cross controlling or large pitch trim required. The biggest concern by all was the cooling system. He flew over the airport at 3500 MSL in a racetrack pattern at 3600 rpm for most of the run spinning the prop at about 2500. The cooling system worked as calculated. Were using a 195 degree F thermostat, and the coolant temperature remained solid on 195 at all airspeeds. Were measuring the radiator outflow temperature and it maintained a constant 25 degree split running right at 170 degrees. At one point just before terminating the flight Jess went to full power for a few seconds and accelerated to 160 mph indicated (170 true). He backed off at that point and felt it was time for a ground check, but he said he was still accelerating. When he reduced power he noticed that the airplane didnt decelerate rapidly like his swift or Glen Smiths RV-6 with the 150 Buick engines in them. I appears that the Warp-Drive prop is changing pitch very well, as advertised. Jess was a little high so he popped 20 degrees of flaps and slipped her in, landing just past the numbers. Great Job! There is still a lot of work to do so we may not fly for a few days. Im going to buy a GPS tomorrow so we can get accurate data. We really dont know how fast he was going from the airspeed indicator or what the climb really was from the VSI. As I told everyone a week ago, the engine was missing at full power. We found out its the carburetor. The four barrel Carter wasnt really designed for this engine and its been twitchy. Tom thought he could make it work and it would give us good power output, but its marginal at best. Were canning it and going to a Holly two barrel in a day or so. We have been able to move the rpm at which we get the miss around by changing jetting and rods but the engine is still running a little rough between 3300 and 3500.not belching smoke, but running a little rough. Were installing the mechanical leaning controls on the Holly and rigging up a 6 probe EGT this week. With the new carburation, its our feeling that we will be able to begin doing some real flight tests to define the flight performance envelope in a week or so. Ill give you the data as we goas I have promised to do. Happy Day to Everyone, Bill Phillips ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 1996
From: John Morrissey <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au>
Subject: Re: How much to ship to Australia (Chatter!)
Snip!! >I guess I shouldn't complain anymore about the cost of gas to drive 180 >miles to Vans to pick up a kit. I just shipped a 15 pound package to >Pennsylvania, cost $10.00 plus $5.00 handling fee. I complained and whined >about that cost. I'm not going to ask what it'd cost to send to you blokes >downunder (are we 'downunder' to you :-)). One of the things you can buy in the tourist shops is a world map with Australia in its rightfull place! On Top!! Who says that North should be at the top of the map anyway?? > >Now I know why that Australian flew to Oshkosh; he didn't want to pay the >freight to ship his airplane. Well! 40hrs flying at 30-35 lts/hour - $1400 ( $1/lt) Not much difference!! Happy Flying! (If we're down under does this mean that we are always flying inverted??) John --------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Morrissey CSIRO ITS Communications Section Phone:- 06 2766811 Fax:- 06 2766617 Mobile:- 018 628804 Email:- John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au CSIRO ---- AUSTRALIA'S SCIENCE, AUSTRALIA'S FUTURE! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 1996
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: How much to ship to Australia
No, A wing kit to Australia runs around $US800.00 when all charges are paid. Leo Davies >Just a quick question. I'm curious. What kind of charges do you folks down >under have to pay to get shipments from Van's. Are they comparable to the >charges recently commented on of around $112 for a wing kit to California?? > >John Ammeter >ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com >Seattle WA, USA >RV-6 N16JA >Flying 5 years > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: frankv(at)pec.co.nz
Date: Jun 03, 1996
Subject: Re: How much to ship to Australia
>3 months ago I received my finish kit (basically same size and weight) at a cost of >$264! This seems pretty ridiculous since I only live 350 miles from the >factory. > When I ordered the kit I was quoted in the ballpark of $120. I was not >amused when the bill showed up. I also ordered an engine shortly >afterward, was quoted $105, and paid $196. Had I known this I would have >picked them up myself. That's interesting... To ship my Emp. kit to NZ, I was originally quoted about US$300 by Barbara at Van's. A couple of days later she faxed me with a change... it was either US$468 by sea, or over US$500 by air. Adding 50% to the kit price to cover freight changed the economics of the whole thing! I did a bit of research here myself, and got a quote of US$258 for consolidated air freight from Portland. Even then, various people got slices (including NZ Govt's 12.5% GST) so that I had an NZ$800 freight bill to pay. I guess we need to take Vans' freight quotes with a grain of salt. Frank. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- frankv(at)pec.co.nz ----------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 1996
From: n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen)
Subject: Re: Me and Lithuania
You wrote: > >I work a the Danish Embassy in the capital of Lithuania, Klaus, kan du snakke Dansk? Du sager at du arbejder for the Danske Embassy. Hvis du kan snakke paa Dansk saa skriv et e-mail til mig private. Peter n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com Sorry guys, please excuse this chat. _________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com
Date: Jun 02, 1996
Subject: Answer to Bandsaw ??
A while back someone asked if they really needed a bandsaw to build an RV. As a member of the HS-814 (614) Do-It-AGAIN Club, let me answer that question: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> YES!!! <<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<<< Best regards to all... Rod Woodard RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 1996
From: n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen)
Subject: Re: RV-4 Canopy problems
You wrote: > >This week we trimmed my canopy. It was trimmed as tall a possible, cutting >near or on the mold line. The forward portion was trimmed to slope up as >shown in the plans. It seems that no matter what I do, the canopy is going >to just come even with the front skin. this does not allow me to flare a >fillet unless I extend over the boot cowl about 1/2 to 1". I wonder how this >is going to look. Anyone else have this problem? >David Cahoon - Jonesboro, Arkansas "Home of Wastewater" and Bill Clintons >next courtroom appearence. > >I just saw an RV-4 today which had a piece in front of the canopy extending about 1.5 inches over the front skin. It looked quite good and I think I may make mine like that too. I think it was made of fiberglas. Peter. n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com ____________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 1996
From: n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen)
Subject: Re: Strobe lights
You wrote: > >In another thread someone mentioned strobes. The Whelen ones are very >expensive. Does anyone have a circuit or kit for home brewed strobes. I'v >e never seen one, but surely they can't be that tricky to design. After >what we Australians pay for freight, some of us could do with some money >saving devices. > > >Graham Taylor (gmt(at)iinet.net.au) >F'wall Fwd completed - 80%finished, 50% to go :-) > Graham, a few years ago I bought a strobe kits from Great Plains Aircraft. They sell mostly VW parts I think. The strobe kit was about $39 but it was not all that bright. I built it; it worked. I still have it. It does not include a lens over the flash tube though or a box for the electronics. Since then, I lucked into a used Whelin so now I don't really need it. Peter n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com _______________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 1996
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: RV factory contact?
Who's the best person to contact at Van's with respect to builder support? Does anyone have the phone number handy? Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Milestone
Date: Jun 02, 1996
IMHO, I would never want a strobe light on the upper half of the fuselage. The light will bounce off the top of the wings and drive you crazy. Put them in the wing tips (an one with the rudder tail light if you want 3). Keep them off the fuselage. Herman. > > Two wings completed on my RV-6 project. Both wing tanks being leak > checked. Baloons still inflated after 30 hours. > > I would like to mount two strobe lights, one on the top of the > fuselage aft of the canopy and one under the fuselage. I would > appreaciate comments and recommendations for systems and sources. > > Thanks > Jerry Walker > ___ > * UniQWK v4.02* The Windows Mail Reader > > '[1;35;40m-=> Delphi Internet Jet v3.012 - (C) PBE > Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: RV-4 Canopy problems
Date: Jun 02, 1996
All of the RV4's I have seen (including mine) have the fiberglass fairing overlaping the forward boot cowl. Not a problem, just lay some wax paper down on the boot cowl before you lay up the glass. I think mine overlaps about 2 inches. Herman > This week we trimmed my canopy. It was trimmed as tall a possible, cutting > near or on the mold line. The forward portion was trimmed to slope up as > shown in the plans. It seems that no matter what I do, the canopy is going > to just come even with the front skin. this does not allow me to flare a > fillet unless I extend over the boot cowl about 1/2 to 1". I wonder how this > is going to look. Anyone else have this problem? > David Cahoon - Jonesboro, Arkansas "Home of Wastewater" and Bill Clintons > next courtroom appearence. > > Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 1996
From: kightdm(at)carol.net (Danny Kight)
Subject: Re: Strobe lights
>Graham, a few years ago I bought a strobe kits from Great Plains >Aircraft. They sell mostly VW parts I think. The strobe kit was about >$39 but it was not all that bright. I built it; it worked. I still >have it. It does not include a lens over the flash tube though or a >box for the electronics. Since then, I lucked into a used Whelin so >now I don't really need it. Peter n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com >_______________________________________ > Hi Graham, Peter is correct about Great Plains Aircraft. They sell VW engine conversions and Sonerai parts. I am currently flying a Sonerai IILT, but building an RV-6, so I called Steve Bennett at Great Plains to find out more info on their strobes. Basically, they are cheap because they are simple. I don't think they put out the FAA required candlepower, and Steve told me that they don't have any noise suppression circuitry. This means you get LOTS OF IRRITATING NOISE on the radio when the strobe is on! It may be possible to shield and filter everything yourself, but I decided it was too much trouble. What I finally did: Bought an Aeroflash flash tube and glass cover from Aircraft Spruce (about $80 US) and I will buy the power supply from an aircraft salvage yard in Atlanta, GA for $45. These units are standard on most Cessnas. I have already mounted the tube in the VS and it looks really sharp. However, the recent posting about VS strobes reflecting off the wings at night makes me wonder if I did the right thing. Ah well, if I'm not happy with it in the air, I'll change it later. Good Luck, Danny Kight kightdm(at)carol.net empennage finished, trying to find time to start on wings. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TLump(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 03, 1996
Subject: RV4 Firewall Recess
I'm installing the constant speed prop governor recess in the firewall. I ordered the Van's "kit" and tried to build it to revision R8 on plans sheet 22. The plans have three key dimensions to show you where to cut your firewall: 3 1/8" on the back wall, 3 7/32" on the front wall and 7 1/2" wide. There is also a flat pattern of the recess cover you make from flat stock provided by Van's. Well, if you go by the plans there is no way I can see for the pieces to go together. Either the 3 1/8" dimension is wrong, the 3 7/32" dimension is wrong or the flat pattern layout is wrong. I have called Van's and they say they have sent out "hundreds of these kits with no complaints" and don't see what the problem is. Has anyone else out there installed this recess? If so, am I missing something in the plans or did you catch the plans error before you cut the firewall like I did? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Ted ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Arrowbat(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 03, 1996
Subject: Re: RV factory contact?
Bob, You can contact Van's Aircraft at 503-647-5117. Recommended call-in hours have changed recently!). If you don't need an immediate response, you can Email them at 76455.1602(at)compuserve.com. I have done this several times, and I always get a response within 24 hours from Tom Green. Mike Calhoon RV6 left wing skins ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 1996
From: pilla(at)emmanuel.espinc.com (Michael Pilla)
Subject: Re: RV4 Firewall Recess
> Well, if you go by the plans there is no way I can see for the pieces to > go together. Either the 3 1/8" dimension is wrong, the 3 7/32" dimension is > wrong or the flat pattern layout is wrong. I have called Van's and they say > they have sent out "hundreds of these kits with no complaints" and don't see > what the problem is. > Has anyone else out there installed this recess? If so, am I missing > something in the plans or did you catch the plans error before you cut the > firewall like I did? I put the firewall recess in my -4, but it was a while ago and I don't remember the dimensions. However, I *do* remember that the plan was not correct. I made posterboard templates to make sure I had a good fit before I cut the stainless steel insert (there is an obvious taper to fit the firewall, but the plan does not show the taper, ...) Carefully check the rudder/brake attachment "angle" bracket. You will need sufficient clearance for the left/right brackets and the firewall recess, if too wide, could interfere with that fit. But, if memory serves me right, the firewall cutout dimensons were accurate, it was just the box dimensions that needed fiddling. As Van's folks say, "you're the manufacturer, and, at this stage of building, "make it fit" ..." :-) Good luck. Mike Pilla pilla(at)espinc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 1996
From: Brian Yablon <brian(at)lanart.com>
Subject: Countersinking question...
Question regarding countersinking thick stock to accept thinner dimpled stock: How much is too much? I'm working on the VS spar. In preparation for where the bottom needs to be flush riveted to attach to the fuse, I started countersinking the "tuning fork" stiffener to accept the dimpled channel. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the goal is to countersink the stiffener so that the dimples fit completely in the countersinks, allowing the channel to lie completely flush with the stiffener. I'm using a microstop with a 100 degree countersink. The problem is, the countersinks seem to be getting awfully deep--much deeper than if I were countersinking to accept just a rivet instead of a dimple. How deep can you go? I poured through AC43.13 and I couldn't find any help. Another question along these lines: Something's been nagging me about dimpling spar channels and ribs to mate with dimpled skins. The back of a dimpled skin is larger than the profile of a rivet. Since the dimple dies are designed to allow *rivets* to sit perfectly in the dimples, it seems obvious that *dimples* will NOT sit perfectly within dimples. This being the case, is it true that dimpled skins never lie perfectly flush with ribs and channels, but rather, stand slightly proud of them? Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com RV-6A #24751 Readying empennage pieces for priming ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 1996
From: pilla(at)emmanuel.espinc.com (Michael Pilla)
Subject: Central NJ: 22" yoke pneumatic squeezer available
Sorry to post this to the whole list, but Claudio Tonini, pilot/builder of RV-4 "Purple Passion" and current -3 builder, asked me to let folks know that his 22" (not a typo) "deep throat" yoke/pneumatic squeezer is up and operational and can be used by anyone who has a need for it. The huge squeezer is in Claudio's hangar, E4-5, at Old Bridge airport. I have to admit, it is one impressive yoke. I believe Claudio has a foot pedal to activate the air pressure. It sure can dimple and squeeze rivets in virtually anything. Mike Pilla pilla(at)espinc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 1996
From: "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Painting
Here's some information posted on compu$erve, reprinted with permission of author. Might be of help to those getting ready to paint. ********************************* For what it's worth, I'm in the "finish painting" stage of a 5-year restoration on my 1972 AA5 Traveler. One of my friends loaned me his Croix HVLP machine and I thought it worked great (I had NO previous spraying experience). I later found an HVLP system offered by WAGNER (yep, the same folks who make the "Power Painter" and "Power Rollers" you find in most large hardware stores). While priming / painting the fuselage in a (rented) spray booth, I painted some parts "side by side" with BOTH systems - it was impossible to tell which part was painted with which system. The Wagner HVLP system was about $360. - roughly HALF the cost of the Croix. Bob Gibson bgibson@b-r.com ******************************* I forgot to mention what types of PAINTS I was using in the Croix and Wagner HVLP guns: Primer - DuPont Variprime (aluminum) self-etching primer - Diamont Diamond Prime (Plastic / fiberglass) White - Ditzler PPG urethane Blue - DuPont urethane Gray - DuPont urethane Bob Gibson Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com) Rancho Santa Margarita, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Re: RV factory contact?
Date: Jun 03, 1996
> Who's the best person to contact at Van's with respect to > builder support? Does anyone have the phone number handy? 503-647-5117. You'll quickly memorize it, as it's rare you can dial through during tech hours and get in on the first try. The guys answering the phone during tech hours all seem to be good. If I remember correctly, tech hours are 7:30 to 8:30 and 4:00 to 5:00 pacific time Mon-Fri. -J -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037 Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg 6121 St. Croix Ave. N. Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 1996
From: Phil Arter <arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu>
Subject: Re: Countersinking question...
Brian, hi That's a good observation. What I do is countersink the thick part a little deeper than usual, not enough to allow the dimpled sheet to fit completely flush, but so a rivet lies about 0.005" below the surface. Then with the parts together, and a rivet in the hole, use a bucking bar with a hole in it the size of the rivet (make sure the hole is deeper than the rivet is long, or you'll make the bucking bar a permanent part of the airframe), sort of pre-mash the parts together by tapping a couple of times with the gun. This will force the back side of the dimple to conform to the countersink, and make a flatter joint. Then finish setting the rivet normally. You can also do this with double dimpled parts by using a bucking bar with a countersunk hole in it. Phil arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu > >Question regarding countersinking thick stock to accept thinner >dimpled stock: How much is too much? > >I'm working on the VS spar. In preparation for where the bottom needs >to be flush riveted to attach to the fuse, I started countersinking >the "tuning fork" stiffener to accept the dimpled channel. > >Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the goal is to >countersink the stiffener so that the dimples fit completely in the >countersinks, allowing the channel to lie completely flush with the >stiffener. I'm using a microstop with a 100 degree countersink. The >problem is, the countersinks seem to be getting awfully deep--much >deeper than if I were countersinking to accept just a rivet instead of >a dimple. How deep can you go? I poured through AC43.13 and I >couldn't find any help. > >Another question along these lines: Something's been nagging me about >dimpling spar channels and ribs to mate with dimpled skins. The back >of a dimpled skin is larger than the profile of a rivet. Since the >dimple dies are designed to allow *rivets* to sit perfectly in the >dimples, it seems obvious that *dimples* will NOT sit perfectly within >dimples. This being the case, is it true that dimpled skins never lie >perfectly flush with ribs and channels, but rather, stand slightly >proud of them? > > >Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com >RV-6A #24751 >Readying empennage pieces for priming > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca
Date: Jun 03, 1996
Subject: High pressure fuel system problems
I spoke to Ken Hitchmough this morning about his postings of the last few days. His gross weight was in error, the correct weight is 1080. Still a good job. He has the Air Beetle main gear on his 6A. My fuel system is plumbed the same as his. The Weldon pump burning itself out trying to draw fuel into the gascolator worries me. These pumps are expensive. I imagine that Ken is not pleased. Homebuilt type gascolators will leak if they are placed downstream of the high pressure pumps required for injected engines. I have a couple of questions for the list, perhaps somebody has figured this out. Should the Weldon pump be capable of self priming? Is there a gascolator capable of higher pressures? I could put a Facet pump at the tank to prime the Weldon, but an aux pump for the aux pump seems silly. If I find a suitable gascolator, should I be worried about those high pressure fuel lines in the cockpit? The Weldon is not the bypass type. I have provisions for a bypass circuit. David Fried DF-6 C-____ dfried(at)dehavilland.ca ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 1996
From: "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Announcement From the OMABP
>Announcement from the OMABP (Old Men=92s Airplane Building Project) > > Well, guess what. You can really fly behind a car engine after=20 >all. I=92m living proof. I flew the (r V-6 a) down the runway a few=20 Congratulations and great report. Keep 'em coming. Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com) Rancho Santa Margarita, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 1996
From: ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE)
Subject: GPS
Thanks to all for your inputs on handheld GPS's. Ed Cole ecole(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 1996
From: Tim Lewis <lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil>
Subject: RV List: Speed/Rate of Climb
I finally got a demo ride yesterday, in Stan Shannon's RV-6. At a denisty altitude of 4000' we climbed out at 800-900 ft/min at 95 mph. That seemed like a slower rate of climb than I was expecting. What do other RV-6 owners experience in terms of sustainable rate of climb? (Stan's ship has a 160HP engine, metal sensenich prop, big tires, no wheeel pants). Those concerns aside, I ordered my RV-6A quick build kit from Vans today. Bill says I should see the fuselage in less than a month. $20K on the credit card. Wow. Tim Lewis Dreading the mastercard bill... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Back riveting
I riveted the RV-6 I'm flying the conventional way, that is, no back riveting. I've helped a couple of builders back rivet their main wing skins (with the tools that I bought after my project was done) and they turned out really well. I intend to back rivet as much as I can on the one that I'm working on now. Question: I wonder if the top surfaces of the outboard leading edge and the fuel tank could be back riveted? I was thinking of doing this on the wing by bending the bottom skin as far out of the way as possible. The fuel tank would be a challange and it's possible that a few of the rivets close to the nose would have to be set conventionally. I saw a right angle rivet gun in, I think, a US Tools catalog, but it cost BIG bucks. If one of you would like to buy one, I'd be happy to try it out for you:) With this type of rivet gun, the OB leading edge and fuel tank could be back riveted in the holding fixture, off the wing. I wonder if there would be enough people interested in this method to justify purchase. Maybe we could set up a deal similar to what Van does with his heavey duty rivet squeezer. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Countersinking question...
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the goal is to >countersink the stiffener so that the dimples fit completely in the >countersinks, allowing the channel to lie completely flush with the >stiffener. I'm using a microstop with a 100 degree countersink. The >problem is, the countersinks seem to be getting awfully deep--much >deeper than if I were countersinking to accept just a rivet instead of >a dimple. How deep can you go? > >Another question along these lines: Something's been nagging me about >dimpling spar channels and ribs to mate with dimpled skins. The back >of a dimpled skin is larger than the profile of a rivet. Since the >dimple dies are designed to allow *rivets* to sit perfectly in the >dimples, it seems obvious that *dimples* will NOT sit perfectly within >dimples. This being the case, is it true that dimpled skins never lie >perfectly flush with ribs and channels, but rather, stand slightly >proud of them? >Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com Brian, For checking the depth of machine countersunk holes where dimpled holes will eventually fit, I fabricated several "fit tabs". As an example: I took a piece of scrap of .025" and in one end dimpled for a # 3 rivet and the other end a # 4 rivet. I trimed this oblong piece down fairly close to the dimple and scratched the thickness of the material on the tab. Then, when machine countersinking an underlying surface, I would trial fit the dimpled piece in the countersink and kind of wiggle and rock it around. If the tab didn't fit well, I adjusted the micro stop down and kept fitting the dimpled tab into the hole until it fit well and no longer "rocked". If you trim close to the dimple, it's pretty easy to tell when you've countersunk enough. When done, put the tab into the tool box. I made tabs for .016, .020, .025, .032 and .040" and have dimpled for #3 & #4 rivets and #6 and #8 screws. As for the second question, in theory, you are right. In practice, it doesn't seem to cause any problems. I suppose you could always lightly countersink the dimple, but I think, in practice, this is more trouble than it would be worth. If you back rivet, the surface really turns out nice and I think the riveting process pretty well "mates" the surfaces. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Sensenich prop
I put my Sensenich prop on a friends 150 hp RV-4 this weekend. He was able to turn the prop up 100 rpms more than I can on my 150 hp RV-6. He has been flying a dynamiclly balanced Prince prop. My sensenich has not been dynamically balanced yet. He has the flat (conical) mounts, I have the Dynafocal. He said he has never experienced such roughness in his life. He said his gauge needles were bouncing all over the place and that he thought something was very wrong. The Sensenich was a bit rougher on my six than was my Props, Inc. prop. I had the Props, Inc. prop dynamically balanced. Evidently, the type of engine mount makes more of a difference than I thought it would have. I'm taking the prop to be re-pitched (77 to 75) in a couple of days and will have the balance checked. My prop guy said that sometimes new props are not balanced as well as they could be. I'll report back after the re-pitch and tell you what we found out. Got to get this done before this Sat. so I can go to the RV deal at Boone. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com
Date: Jun 03, 1996
Subject: Countersinking question...
In theory you are quite correct about a dimple sitting "high" inside another dimple. In practice, It doesn't seem to be the case. If you look inside a finished assembly, it appears that the skins to lie flat against ribs etc. If you are concerned about workmanship, rest assured that you can produce wrinkle free and very straight assemblies with dimpling. The only blemish is the rivet itself. Just get your ribs oriented properly. Use a piece of .032 scrap to insure that the skin will lay flat and you'll be fine. enjoy.... John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BrabstonD(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 03, 1996
Subject: Personal information
I am building an RV6. Maybe a 6A. I will have to make up my mind before I order the fuselage kit. I have completed the empenage and one wing spar. I intend to complete both wing spars before I start on a wing. I have a O320 A1A, 150 HP engine that I will install. I live in Columbus, GA. I am a retired Army Aviator and currently work for the federal government. I have had two demo rides at Lakeland (Sun N Fun) one in an RV6 and one in an RV6A. I loved both. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com>
Subject: Re: Trim Tab
I did the fold over tabs and it worked out OK.... RB >Another question -- has anyone had any luck with the bend-over-the-tabs >method of constructing the trim tab, or is everyone pretty much agreed >that the best method is to make a couple of little ribs? > >If you make a couple of ribs, is the .032 material the right choice? Or >would I do better with thinner/thicker? > >-Joe > >-- >Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037 >Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg >6121 St. Croix Ave. N. >Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot. > > Richard E. Bibb TEL: 301-571-2507 Director ALT: 301-564-4404 Fore Systems Federal, Inc. FAX: 301-564-4408 6905 Rock Spring Drive, #800 email: rbibb(at)fore.com Bethesda, MD 20817 PAGE: 800-719-1246 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com>
Subject: Re: -4 canopies
MIne worked out the same way - epoxy filled glass filet mad it look fine... > >This week we trimmed my canopy. It was trimmed as tall a possible, cutting >near or on the mold line. The forward portion was trimmed to slope up as >shown in the plans. It seems that no matter what I do, the canopy is going >to just come even with the front skin. this does not allow me to flare a >fillet unless I extend over the boot cowl about 1/2 to 1". I wonder how this >is going to look. Anyone else have this problem? >David Cahoon - Jonesboro, Arkansas "Home of Wastewater" and Bill Clintons >next courtroom appearence. > >David: >most I've seen are done like you say yours will wind up. Good luck on the >skirts- I had to use a third peice to make up the rearmost section of the >skirt, similiar to what Herman Dierks had done. > >Check Six! >Mark > > Richard E. Bibb TEL: 301-571-2507 Director ALT: 301-564-4404 Fore Systems Federal, Inc. FAX: 301-564-4408 6905 Rock Spring Drive, #800 email: rbibb(at)fore.com Bethesda, MD 20817 PAGE: 800-719-1246 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator Trim Tab Horn
It needs the stiffnes of 0.063.... Call VAN's and they wil send it... RB >I'm just starting to build the trim tab. The directions say to >"make the control horn from the .063 inch plate provided." I've gone >through all my parts, and the thickest piece of aluminum I have >left is .032 inch. > >Comments? Do I need to call Van's on Monday and order another one? >(How expensive can one little piece of aluminum be?) Maybe it's time >I found a local supplier of aluminum? (Anyone in the western Twin >Cities have suggestions along those lines?) > >As usual, this mailing list is invaluable. Aren't computers great? > >-Joe > >-- >Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037 >Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg >6121 St. Croix Ave. N. >Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot. > > Richard E. Bibb TEL: 301-571-2507 Director ALT: 301-564-4404 Fore Systems Federal, Inc. FAX: 301-564-4408 6905 Rock Spring Drive, #800 email: rbibb(at)fore.com Bethesda, MD 20817 PAGE: 800-719-1246 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 1996
From: Louis Willig <larywil(at)Op.Net>
Subject: WANTED: RV-4
Hi Gang, I'm still looking for that RV-4 that will make my life complete. Does anyone have or know of an RV-4 for sale that is well-built, proven, capable of cross-country VFR (Vacuum system mandatory, Radio & X-Ponder desireable), relatively low time engine, flies straight but rolls and loops with ease? Any color is acceptable except chartreuse with pink polka dots (looks are great, but I want to fly it, not look at it). I live in Pennsylvania, so an East coast candidate is best. But I will go anywhere if needed to check it out. Thanks, RVfriends. Louis Willig (610) 668-4964 day, night, mid-night, any time or just Email to above address. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 1996
From: Pat McClung <pmc123(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Personal information
aol.com!BrabstonD(at)matronics.com wrote: > > I am building an RV6. Maybe a 6A. I will have to make up my mind before I > order the fuselage kit. I have completed the empenage and one wing spar. I > intend to complete both wing spars before I start on a wing. I have a O320 > A1A, 150 HP engine that I will install. I live in Columbus, GA. I am a > retired Army Aviator and currently work for the federal government. I have > had two demo rides at Lakeland (Sun N Fun) one in an RV6 and one in an RV6A. > I loved both. Check out the relative difficulty of 6 vs 6A before you make a final decision--Your experience and skill level will help you decide. Talk to builders of each type, at length--they are in love with whatever they built so keep an open mind. You may learn some subjective differences that aren't obvious on quick casual observation. pmc123(at)airmail.net ****N3XM **** Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 1996
From: "Mark D Hiatt" <OttoPilot_MSN(at)msn.com>
Subject: Bair RV-6 in Sport Aviation.
Congratulations to Craig Bair for his getting "Best Homebuilt Low Wing" at Sun-N-Fun! He and his airplane are featured on p39 of the current issue of Sport Aviation. Craig's RV-6 was comfortably inside when Lincoln EAA569 traveled to York, Nebraska (just missing Bob Skinner!) a few months back. We all got to crawl over it, under it, around it and poke through it and Craig was really patient answering the same questions over and over. You can't see it well in the photo, but the colors are a silvery-gray over white, trimmed in maroon, which looked really nice. The same colors carry over to the interior which was extremely well done. WRT GPS systems: Remember the guy who liked the shaver so much he bought the company? Well, I bought shares in Lowrance Electronics (NASD:LEIX) after seeing their AirMap unit. I really think that GPS is now where the PC business was in about 1982. We're going to see some really incredible boxes soon, as hardware capability goes up while costs come down and the software continues to improve. Couple that with the gummint letting us have the industrial strength GPS signal soon and it's going to be a whole new world, soon. Mark D Hiatt Aviation Forum Manager The Microsoft Network ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 03, 1996
Subject: Re: RV List: Speed/Rate of Climb
>Those concerns aside, I ordered my RV-6A quick build kit from Vans >today. Bill says I should see the fuselage in less than a month. $20K on >the credit card. Wow. > >Tim Lewis >Dreading the mastercard bill... > > > Ouch! Add the 4% service charge to the kit price.... A check (if it was possible)would have ony cost $.32....... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV (Installing electric flap option) 702.5 Hrs in 2.5 Years... wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Personal information
>I am building an RV6. Maybe a 6A. I will have to make up my mind before I >order the fuselage kit. I have completed the empenage and one wing spar. I >intend to complete both wing spars before I start on a wing. I have a O320 >A1A, 150 HP engine that I will install. I live in Columbus, GA. I am a >retired Army Aviator and currently work for the federal government. I have >had two demo rides at Lakeland (Sun N Fun) one in an RV6 and one in an RV6A. > I loved both. Welcome to the list, but you forgot to tell us your name:) Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 1996
From: finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen )
Subject: Re: Strobe lights
I picked up a kit from Great Plains at Sun'n'Fun for about $26. It could be redesigned (replace the 150V caps with 350V caps). It works though, but I intend to redo part of the circuit and design a more compact circuit board that could fit in the base of a proper lens. I'll post more when I get around to it, but the kit (with it's schematic) provided a good starting point. Finn finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com >Does anyone have a circuit or kit for home brewed strobes. I'v >e never seen one, but surely they can't be that tricky to design. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 03, 1996
Subject: Re: Milestone
You will get a lot of reflection in the cockpit from a light on the top of the fuselage. I suggest that you put them on the wing tips. Whelen has a nice unit that is both nav and strobe light combined. Van's has the best price. Jim Cone jamescone(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jun 03, 1996
Subject: RV-LIST Hits 500!!!
RV-Listers: With the addition of "Mavrick25(at)aol.com" today, the RV-LIST now has 500 members! WOW! What a resource! Matt Dralle RV-List Admin. -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94550 510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 04, 1996
Subject: Re: High pressure fuel system problems
Hi all I think that trying to draw through a gascolator is not a good idea.... pumps like to push, not pull. Imagine yourself accidently running a tank dry...gravity ALWAYS works! Some local boys, me included, have simply mounted "Wix" brand metal inline filters in the fuel tank outlet line, before the valve and pump, deleting the gascolator altogether. The tank is the low point in the RV fuel system anyway, so H2O will collect there, right? I've seen no problems so far, even with fuel flows close to 30GPH! (that 540 is THIRSTY at full power) Just make sure the filters, which mount forward of the #2 bulkhead (near the tank vent outlets), are protected from your feet as you get in & out. You've heard of "K.I.S.S." An alternate type 25PSI pump with bypass is available from the Airflow people for about $300US. Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 04, 1996
Subject: Windscreen fairing
Does anyone have any experience with making a windscreen fairning (6A/slider) out of aluminum instead of firberglass? Any pros/cons or other info would be much appreciated. Ed Bundy ebundy2620(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Jun 04, 1996
Subject: Re: Windscreen fairing
>Does anyone have any experience with making a windscreen fairning (6A/slider) >out of aluminum instead of firberglass? Any pros/cons or other info would be >much appreciated. > >Ed Bundy >ebundy2620(at)aol.com > Ed: Can't tell you about a 6 but I have an aluminum canopy fairing on my 4. (There's enough plastic on these things as it is, I wasn't going to contribute any more!) I made it out of one piece of 3003 soft aluminum. Took a day to build it with the aid of a shrinker/stretcher and a home made large edge roller. I'm told it looks nice and there is no bondo or plastic on it. Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: "Johnson, Steve" <spjohnson(at)msmail.mmmg.com>
Subject: RE: Service Charge (was Speed/Rate of Climb)
>>Those concerns aside, I ordered my RV-6A quick build kit from Vans >>today. Bill says I should see the fuselage in less than a month. $20K on >>the credit card. Wow. >> >Tim Lewis >>Dreading the mastercard bill... >> >> >> >Ouch! Add the 4% service charge to the kit price.... A check (if it was >possible)would have ony cost $.32....... >Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV >(Installing electric flap option) 702.5 Hrs in 2.5 Years... >wstucklen(at)aol.com My RV-8 empennage order form doesn't mention any 4% service charge for credit card. I'd like to know if this is for real. Steve Johnson spjohnson(at)mmm.com RV-8 About to order empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com>
Subject: GPS
Date: Jun 03, 1996
Ed, I have a Garmin 95xls and love it. It is mounted to the panel using the supplied bracket and wiried into the a/c electrical system. I have the suction (included) cup antenna attached to the forward side of the windscreen, ocassionally I lose satelites in the Cessna. The most importand feature for me was the backlit translucent control buttons....they sorta glow in the dark....easy to use in the dark. Let me know if you need more info. Greg Bordelon greg(at)brokersys.com ---------- From: EDWARD COLE[SMTP:ix.netcom.com!ecole(at)matronics.com] Sent: Friday, May 31, 1996 2:43 PM Subject: RV-List: GPS Are any of you flyers using a handheld GPS unit? If so, what brand, how do you like it, what do you dislike about it. Also, has anyone seen/used the new Garmin 89 or Magellan Skyblazer LT? You can respond personally to me or the list. Thanks, Ed Cole RV6A #24430 ecole(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com>
Subject: Re: RV List: Speed/Rate of Climb
> >>Those concerns aside, I ordered my RV-6A quick build kit from Vans >>today. Bill says I should see the fuselage in less than a month. $20K on >>the credit card. Wow. >> >>Tim Lewis >>Dreading the mastercard bill... >> >> >> > >Ouch! Add the 4% service charge to the kit price.... A check (if it was >possible)would have ony cost $.32....... > >Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV >(Installing electric flap option) 702.5 Hrs in 2.5 Years... >wstucklen(at)aol.com > > Vans has stopped adding the service charge to credit card orders. -Scott N506RV (Engine and prop on) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: pfrancis(at)spdmail.spd.dsccc.com (Phil Francis)
Subject: One more "lurker" out of the shadows with HS problem
Well I thought it might be time to introduce myself and hopefully contribute something to the list. I'm currently a software engineer with DSC Comm. in Dallas. I fell in love with aviation 10 years ago on my first job with Honeywell Commercial Flight Systems writing software for the flight management portion of the A320 FMGC. A few years ago while working on my private I learned of the EAA and the fact that the FAA would actually let you build your own airplane and fly it. I remember it was a great feeling watching a system I only played a small part in building guide a plane through the air and tried to think what it would feel like to actually fly a plane one builds almost entirely by oneself. I couldn't even imagine it so now I'm on a quest to find out... a search for the elusive RV grin. I received a prelude to the grin earlier this year when I was up at Van's for a builder's workshop and Ken took me up for a ride in the 180hp RV-6A prototype - what an incredible airplane. I ordered an emp kit for a -6A, setup shop, and am finally starting to build. Ran into my first problem Friday when mating the HS front spar to the rear spar and rib assembly. I apparently followed the instructions a little too blindly when cutting the flange on the HS-602's to create the "tongues". The instructions state to "trim the inboard ends as shown in DWG 3PP", so after verifying that the 602's where exactly 48 11/16" as specified in the drawing in the lower left I proceeded to cut off 5 1/4" as shown (mistake #1). In the next step you clamp the HS-614 and 610 to the 602's and check overall length of the front spar. At this point I had a 1/4" gap between the ends of the 602's to obtain the correct length, since the plans said a gap was ok here I proceeded (mistake #2). It turns out that if you check the dimensions on the plans you find that a 1/4" gap is inevitable (two spar channels at 48 11/16" = 97 3/8 which misses the overall length dimension of 97 5/8" by 1/4"). The problem with this is that the 5 1/4" dimension for cutting the flange is intended from the spar centerline not the edges of the 602's which are now each 1/8" off of the centerline. So... when you mate the front spar with the ribs you find the 602's flanges do not fully overlap with the flanges of the HS-405 ribs where they intersect (they are 1/8" shy of the edge). Not a problem until you put the skins on and find there is a pre-punched hole for a rivet right at the intersection, and that 1/8" turns out to be 1D+ of the 2D you need for minimum edge clearance for that rivet. I talked with Bill at Van's yesterday and he said to proceed with the 1D edge clearance on the four rivets involved (one on each intersection of a 602 and 405). The strenght of the HS is in the skin and rear spar so these four rivets apparently shouldn't cause any problems, but I'm still debating whether or not to rebuild the front spar for piece of mind. Hopefully nobody but the bozo over here will run into this, but just in case I thought I would give you fair warning. Phil Francis pfrancis(at)spd.dsccc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: "Gene Gottschalk ((301) 286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: RV4 Firewall Recess
Ted, I just finished building mine. I followed the plans that came with the box. It went together easily and fit perfectly. Just draw the bend lines on the flat piece as per the plans and bend. The only mistake I made was drilling the two vertical angles to the firewall before I made the box. The fit (8" between the angles) wasn't perfect, but was close enough to work. In retrospect I would fit the box before I drilled that part of the firewall. -Gene > Has anyone else out there installed this recess? If so, am I missing >something in the plans or did you catch the plans error before you cut the >firewall like I did? > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > >Thanks, > >Ted ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com>
Subject: rv-list: Wire Suppliers
Can anyone recommend a supplier of surplus electrical wire suitable for aircraft use. I have always seen these ads in the past. Now that I'm ready to install the electrical system, I can's seem to find any. Second, I've been told that there is an "optimum" length for the transponder coax lead. Is this true? Anybody know what it is? Is RG-58 the right cable for all antenna leads (nav, com, transponder, GPS and marker beacon)? I would like to run all these leads now, prior to purchasing the equipment, and just put the terminations on at a later time. Lastly, are there any good plans floating around for a "home brew" marker beacon antenna to be installed in a wing tip? I can't justify spending $80 to put one of those ugly, drag producing boats on the underside of the airplane. Thanks in advance. -Scott N506RV scottg(at)villagenet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4Bell(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 04, 1996
Subject: Re: RV-LIST Hits 500!!!
Matt, Thanks for all your hard work on the list. I stop work twice a day to check it out. Have learned may things from it that have helped on my RV-4. Bruce Bell RV4BELL(at)AOL.COM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: Brian Yablon <brian(at)lanart.com>
Subject: Countersinking question...
This is a follow-up to my question yesterday about countersinking thick stock to accept thinner dimpled stock. I'd like to thank all those who responded to my initial post. After trying out a few of your ideas last night, I've got some results to report, and a question: I should mention that I asked someone at Van's yesterday what the recommended countersinking depth was for dimpled stock. His answer was to countersink to precisely the same depth I would for a rivet--that is, when a rivet is placed in the countersunk hole, its factory head should be flush with the stock surface. I had my doubts, and figured I'd run some experiments last night. I took a hunk of .125 angle, and drilled a scrap of .032 to it with about 5 holes. Then, I dimpled the .032 at each hole, and as long as I had the dimple dies out, I made up an .032 fit tab, per Bob Skinner's instructions. Using the microstop, I countersunk the 5 holes in the .125 angle to varying depths. The first hole accomodated a rivet perfectly (as Vans suggested), but the fit tab didn't lie down in it. I increased the depth of the succeeding countersinks until the fit tab seemed to nest pretty well. It turns out the depth of this countersink was such that the head of the rivet, when placed in the hole, lay .029 below the surface. After setting the rivets with a squeezer. The only hole that allowed the dimpled .032 material to sit flat against the .125 angle was the hole that I countersunk .029 deeper than that recommended by the fellow at Van's. My question is twofold: a) Is the excessive depth of my countersink going to weaken the .125 angle? b) Why is Van's advice not working out here? What am I doing wrong? Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com RV-6A #24751 Preparing VS parts ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: "Larson, Joe" <Joseph.P.Larson(at)nmb.norwest.com> (Joe Larson)
Subject: Pulled Rivets
Something has been bugging me for quite some time, and it just occurred to me to see if any of you have a solution. When I pull blind rivets, I always end up with a sharp edge on them just off center. Most of the rivet looks good, but I consistently get this one sharp edge. This is with all the pulled rivets that ship with the empennage. Does anyone else get this same thing? Is it a technique problem? Is my inexpensive puller just too inexpensive? Or is this standard? Does anyone know how to get rid of it? I tried using the deburring tool, but because the sharp edge is raised while the rest of the center is inset like it appears it should be, the debur tool doesn't seem to work very well. -Joe -- Joe Larson ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: Jack Gageby <aj752(at)lafn.lafn.org>
Subject: Re: GPS
>Are any of you flyers using a handheld GPS unit? >If so, what brand, how do you like it, what do you dislike about it. >Also, has anyone seen/used the new Garmin 89 or Magellan Skyblazer LT? >You can respond personally to me or the list. >Thanks, >Ed Cole RV6A #24430 >ecole(at)ix.netcom.com > > I use the Magellan EC-10X moving map GPS. I believe it is a superior tool for keeping the path of an airplane moving along an intend course line from departure to destination. On its very high resolution display you see your exact position and projected path graphically superimposed on a moving map. Your position is presented with an airplane icon. From the nose of the airplane icon there is track projection vector. This icon and graphical track projection show you instantly your position and whether you are converging, paralleling, or diverging from you intended path. This is almost instant, real time information, you can use to precisely control the path of your airplane. This method is superior to using a CDI. With a CDI you make educated guesses at headings to keep on course, making heading changes and then wait to see how the new heading affects the CDI needle. With the moving map display of the EC-10X you can immediately see whether the new heading converges, parallels, or diverges from the course line. This unit make non-precision IFR approaches a snap. Just adjust your heading so the track projection vector lies on top of your destination airport. And that's exactly where you are going. No chasing the course deviation needle. I'm sure glad it doesn't use batteries. It has a power cable to plug into the aircraft cigarette lighter (14 or 28 volts). Ever try to find an unfamiliar airport using one of those battery powered units and have the batteries go dead. I hate it when that happens. I use the EC-10X day and night in all kinds of weather. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Service Charge (was Speed/Rate of Climb)
Date: Jun 04, 1996
Van's did away with the credit service charge some time back. They use to charge 3% on credit card charges. Herman > > > >>Those concerns aside, I ordered my RV-6A quick build kit from Vans > >>today. Bill says I should see the fuselage in less than a month. $20K on > >>the credit card. Wow. > >> > >Tim Lewis > >>Dreading the mastercard bill... > >> > >> > >> > > >Ouch! Add the 4% service charge to the kit price.... A check (if it was > >possible)would have ony cost $.32....... > > >Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV > >(Installing electric flap option) 702.5 Hrs in 2.5 Years... > >wstucklen(at)aol.com > > My RV-8 empennage order form doesn't mention any 4% service charge for credit > card. I'd like to know if this is for real. > > Steve Johnson > spjohnson(at)mmm.com > > RV-8 > About to order empennage > -- -------------------------------------------------------- *NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my own and are independent of my employer. Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas AIX Network Performance Measurement/Analysis phone: TL 678-2831 outside: (512) 838-2831 MS: 9530 fax: 512-838-1801 mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: Larry Groom <lgroom(at)millcomm.com>
Subject: Vertical Stab and Rudder together
I finished the rudder last week and decided to bolt it to the Vertical Stab last night. It fit pretty good although the top bracket of the stab was a bit tight and I had to pry the bracket apart a bit to get the bearing to fit. The rudder looked good on the stab and even moved back and forth ok! I did notice however, after looking at the tail assy from the trailing edge that at the top the rudder is not exactly in the center of the trailing edge of the Stab. There is a little bit of a larger gap on one side of the rudder than the other. The obvious cause would be that the upper brackets were not exactly on the centerline of the rear VS spar. (Although I tried!) After taking the rudder back off I can see the brackets are off but not much maybe 1/32" or so. The brackets themselves should be lined up as I used the string method to line them up. I do have some questions though. By prying the upper bracket apart a little I'm I going to cause premature stress cracking or will the bracket be more of a spring type of affair? Also, I've pretty much decided to live with the fact that my rudder is not exactly lined up with my Vert Stab. There is no binding and figure that's what trim tabs are for! But, does anybody have any info that I should be aware of that would make it wise to fix the slight misalignment? Thanks in advance! Larry RV-6 Elevators ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: billphil(at)ix.netcom.com (William Phillips )
Subject: R-V6a Average Horsepower Transfer Rate
There have been many wild calculations in rec.aviation.homebuilt concerning the high speed run I made a couple of weeks ago in the R-V6-A. Horsepower coupling seems to be an issue so I would like to present a simple straight forward calculation to determine the amount of horsepower transferred to the airplane during an acceleration from 0 to 70mph in 9.5 sec. Im using 70 this time because I didnt correct indicated to true last time. For those of you who are new to the list, we have a Chevy Vortec V-6 in an RV-6a using a PSRU at 1.43 to 1. Here's the calculation: Total Kinetic Energy = 1/2 the mass times the velocity squared = 1/2 m v^2 Weight = 1430 pounds, mass = 1430/32.2 slugs= 44.4 slugs Velocity at 70mph = 103 ft/s Total Kinetic Energy = 44.4 * 103 *103 = 4.71 E 05 ft-lb Assuming a uniform transfer of energy for each second of the run, 4.71E05/9.5= 4.96E04 ft-lb/s This is the energy transfered to the airplane each second. Converting this to horsepower by dividing by 550 ft-lb/s/hp I get: 4.96 E 04/ 550 = 90 horsepower. So, what all this insinuates is that the engine averaged about 90 horsepower transfer rate of energy to the system over the 9.5 second run. If I make a humble assumption that the engine was producing about 180 horsepower at the shaft that day this shows that the energy transfer rate to the airplane is about 50% efficient. In other words, heat, sound, tire friction, aerodynamic drag, inefficiencies in the PSRU etc. consumed about half the power produced by the engine during that acceleration. Does this surprise anyone? If it does, please let me know. Id really like to see someone elses data on an RV-6 with any engine in it. Go to full power with brakes on. Time yourself from the release of your brakes to 70 mph true. Give me your weight, time and what you think your engine is producing. Id love to compare some numbers. Thanks, Bill Phillips from the OMABP ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: csanchez(at)BayNetworks.com (Cheryl Sanchez)
Subject: Re: Countersinking question...
> > >This is a follow-up to my question yesterday about countersinking >thick stock to accept thinner dimpled stock. I'd like to thank all >those who responded to my initial post. After trying out a few of >your ideas last night, I've got some results to report, and a >question: > >I should mention that I asked someone at Van's yesterday what the >recommended countersinking depth was for dimpled stock. His answer >was to countersink to precisely the same depth I would for a >rivet--that is, when a rivet is placed in the countersunk hole, its >factory head should be flush with the stock surface. > >I had my doubts, and figured I'd run some experiments last night. I >took a hunk of .125 angle, and drilled a scrap of .032 to it with >about 5 holes. Then, I dimpled the .032 at each hole, and as long as >I had the dimple dies out, I made up an .032 fit tab, per Bob >Skinner's instructions. > >Using the microstop, I countersunk the 5 holes in the .125 angle to >varying depths. The first hole accomodated a rivet perfectly (as Vans >suggested), but the fit tab didn't lie down in it. I increased the >depth of the succeeding countersinks until the fit tab seemed to nest >pretty well. It turns out the depth of this countersink was such that >the head of the rivet, when placed in the hole, lay .029 below the >surface. > >After setting the rivets with a squeezer. The only hole that allowed >the dimpled .032 material to sit flat against the .125 angle was the >hole that I countersunk .029 deeper than that recommended by the >fellow at Van's. > >My question is twofold: a) Is the excessive depth of my countersink >going to weaken the .125 angle? b) Why is Van's advice not working >out here? What am I doing wrong? > > >Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com >RV-6A #24751 >Preparing VS parts > When I built the vertical stabilizer spar for my -3 I ran into this problem also. Like Brian, I ran some tests. What I found was that the dimpled metal makes a rounded transition from the flat surface to the 100 degree part, on the male side of the dimple. But the underlying machine countersink makes a sharp transition. What I did was to machine countersink a little low and then use a large diamater drill with a shallower angle to widen the top of the countersink. Then it follows the contour of the dimple better. This worked well and I did not have to countersink as low as Brian describes. Cheryl Sanchez csanchez(at)world.std.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: Tim Lewis <lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil>
Subject: Re: RE: Service Charge (was Speed/Rate of Climb)
> > >Ouch! Add the 4% service charge to the kit price.... A check (if it was > >possible)would have ony cost $.32....... > > > My RV-8 empennage order form doesn't mention any 4% service charge for credit > card. I'd like to know if this is for real. No, it's not. I just got a fax back from Vans, signed by Bill. They'd prefer a check, but there's no surcharge on credit card orders. Tim Lewis - Ordered 6A kit yesterday - Interested in hearing 6/6A climb/cruise numbers from people who are flying theirs. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Pulled Rivets
>When I pull blind rivets, I always end up with a sharp edge on them just >off center. Most of the rivet looks good, but I consistently get this one >sharp edge. This is with all the pulled rivets that ship with the empennage. > >Does anyone else get this same thing? Is it a technique problem? Is my >inexpensive puller just too inexpensive? Or is this standard? > >Does anyone know how to get rid of it? I tried using the deburring tool, but >because the sharp edge is raised while the rest of the center is inset like >it appears it should be, the debur tool doesn't seem to work very well. >Joe Larson Joe, I polish them off with the small diameter Scotch Brite wheel/mandrel chucked in a die grinder. I hold the die grinder at an angle and use the edge of the wheel on the rivet. It's easy to keep centered so as not to mar the surrounding metal. Use a light touch. By the way, some builders don't fill their pop rivets. In this instance, I would recommend that some primer be placed in the center. A needle and syringe works well for this. Otherwise, the steel mandrel can rust and "leak" rust onto the surface. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: One more "lurker" out of the shadows with HS problem
Date: Jun 04, 1996
I had this exact same problem too with both the HS and the VS fwd spar flange/end rib flange intersections. I had the situation explained the same by Van's and also inspected by an A&P and an EAA tech adviser (can you tell I was uncomfortable?). All said that this was an acceptable situation. The joke is if you look at the plans themselves you will even see that you probably won't get edge clearance on both the rib and the spar flange. I was surprised, but I proceeded on. I have a question: before I close the VS, it was suggested that I drill some holes, use grommets and run string for wiring later. Can anyone tell me what size/how many/where to drill for future VS electronics? I have no idea what is supposed to go there. Thanks, -Mike Denting VS skins ---------- From: spdmail.spd.dsccc.com!pfrancis(at)matronics.com[SMTP:spdmail.spd.dsccc.com!pfr ancis(at)matronics.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 1996 6:23 AM Subject: RV-List: One more "lurker" out of the shadows with HS problem Well I thought it might be time to introduce myself and hopefully contribute something to the list. I'm currently a software engineer with DSC Comm. in Dallas. I fell in love with aviation 10 years ago on my first job with Honeywell Commercial Flight Systems writing software for the flight management portion of the A320 FMGC. A few years ago while working on my private I learned of the EAA and the fact that the FAA would actually let you build your own airplane and fly it. I remember it was a great feeling watching a system I only played a small part in building guide a plane through the air and tried to think what it would feel like to actually fly a plane one builds almost entirely by oneself. I couldn't even imagine it so now I'm on a quest to find out... a search for the elusive RV grin. I received a prelude to the grin earlier this year when I was up at Van's for a builder's workshop and Ken took me up for a ride in the 180hp RV-6A prototype - what an incredible airplane. I ordered an emp kit for a -6A, setup shop, and am finally starting to build. Ran into my first problem Friday when mating the HS front spar to the rear spar and rib assembly. I apparently followed the instructions a little too blindly when cutting the flange on the HS-602's to create the "tongues". The instructions state to "trim the inboard ends as shown in DWG 3PP", so after verifying that the 602's where exactly 48 11/16" as specified in the drawing in the lower left I proceeded to cut off 5 1/4" as shown (mistake #1). In the next step you clamp the HS-614 and 610 to the 602's and check overall length of the front spar. At this point I had a 1/4" gap between the ends of the 602's to obtain the correct length, since the plans said a gap was ok here I proceeded (mistake #2). It turns out that if you check the dimensions on the plans you find that a 1/4" gap is inevitable (two spar channels at 48 11/16" = 97 3/8 which misses the overall length dimension of 97 5/8" by 1/4"). The problem with this is that the 5 1/4" dimension for cutting the flange is intended from the spar centerline not the edges of the 602's which are now each 1/8" off of the centerline. So... when you mate the front spar with the ribs you find the 602's flanges do not fully overlap with the flanges of the HS-405 ribs where they intersect (they are 1/8" shy of the edge). Not a problem until you put the skins on and find there is a pre-punched hole for a rivet right at the intersection, and that 1/8" turns out to be 1D+ of the 2D you need for minimum edge clearance for that rivet. I talked with Bill at Van's yesterday and he said to proceed with the 1D edge clearance on the four rivets involved (one on each intersection of a 602 and 405). The strenght of the HS is in the skin and rear spar so these four rivets apparently shouldn't cause any problems, but I'm still debating whether or not to rebuild the front spar for piece of mind. Hopefully nobody but the bozo over here will run into this, but just in case I thought I would give you fair warning. Phil Francis pfrancis(at)spd.dsccc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: carroll(at)geology.wisc.edu (Alan Carroll)
Subject: Skystruck Workshops
I just attended the Skystruck builders workshop in Oshkosh, and can recommend it strongly. It is two-days (Sat-Sun.), and is run by John and Betty Monnet (John designed the Sonerai and now restores old Cubs). Ken Scott from Van's did most of the actual teaching (he also is the voice on the Van's promotional video!). Cost is $200, plus tax. The workshop was very "hands on", and was based on a progression of small practice projects (drilling, dimpling, riveting, back-riveting, etc.). The culmination was to build a section of a control surface. We had 12 people in the workshop. The Monnets would like to have 16, which I think might be pushing it a bit for space and tools (Van's workshops are limited to 8). All in all it was very well run. This kind of course may not be a "must", but it certainly is fun and a good confidence builder. The main advantage to Skystruck is location - much less travel if you live in the eastern U.S. They have additional courses scheduled this year - their number is 414-231-8297. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
Date: Jun 04, 1996
Subject: Strobes
>You will get a lot of reflection in the cockpit from a light on the top of >the fuselage. I suggest that you put them on the wing tips. Whelen has a >nice unit that is both nav and strobe light combined. Van's has the best >price. > >Jim Cone >jamescone(at)aol.com > Sometimes Chief Aircraft 1-800-447-3408 is cheaper. I don't have Vans new cataloge here but Chief has Whelen A413A Comet Flash which runs up to three stobes at 44 joules each light if run alternately for $285, A600 combo wingtip stobe at $150 each and the HD 60 installation kit at $50. This is the same as System 1 in Vans 1995 catalog. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892 2300 Oakmont Way #205 Fax: 541-342-5492 Eugene, Oregon 97401 email: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: sierchio(at)groucho.boi.noaa.gov
Subject: Re: rv-list: Wire Suppliers
Date: Jun 04, 1996
Scott, You wrote: > > Can anyone recommend a supplier of surplus electrical wire suitable for > aircraft use. I have always seen these ads in the past. Now that I'm ready > to install the electrical system, I can's seem to find any. Back in May, John Ammeter wrote: Seriously, if you or any other builders want to save a bunch of bucks and need wire for your RV, our EAA chapter has a lot of wire for sale. We're selling it for $1.00/Pound plus shipping. I believe his email address is ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com Mike ==================================================================== Mike Sierchio NIFC-National Weather Service sierchio(at)groucho.boi.noaa.gov 3833 S. Development Ave., Bldg 3807 (208) 334-9824 Boise, ID 83705-5354 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: dougm@physio-control.com (Doug Medema)
Subject: Re: Pulled Rivets
You wrote: > Something has been bugging me for quite some time, and it just occurred to me > to see if any of you have a solution. > > When I pull blind rivets, I always end up with a sharp edge on them just > off center. Most of the rivet looks good, but I consistently get this one > sharp edge. This is with all the pulled rivets that ship with the empennage. > > Does anyone else get this same thing? Is it a technique problem? Is my > inexpensive puller just too inexpensive? Or is this standard? > > Does anyone know how to get rid of it? I tried using the deburring tool, but > because the sharp edge is raised while the rest of the center is inset like > it appears it should be, the debur tool doesn't seem to work very well. > > -Joe > > -- > Joe Larson > I also got this, both with a real cheap puller, and a fairly good quality one. My solution is to use a small scrap piece of .125 aluminum through which I drilled a hole just large enough for the rivet "nail" to go through. I place this between the rivet and the puller. The puller marks up the scrap and not the rivet. I get real nice smooth, flat rivets doing this. || || -------------|||== ^ || ^ | || | Rivet "Nail" ^ Rivet body | | Scrap of .125 aluminum Doug Medema, RV-6A, ready to mount the flap on second wing. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Countersinking; Blind Rivets; GPS
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: Jack Abell <abell(at)rand.org>
In countersinking underneath dimpled skin, one does indeed need to countersink somewhat more than one would for the perfect insert of a rivet head, but not nearly 0.029 in. I do it by eyeball, having experimented with it quite a while back, but I'd say that even half that much is too much. The dimpled skin deforms some when the rivet is squeezed or bucked, so I'd say something more like 0.005 in. will result in a perfect joint. For Joe Larson and Bob Skinner: I'm indebted to Art Chard for having shown me how to avoid the sharp edge protruding from blind rivets. It is caused by using too large a diameter insert in the blind rivet squeezer. Simply change to the next smaller size. Polishing with a die grinder and Scotch-Brite disc then becomes optional. It isn't needed to remove any sharp edge protruding from the barrel. I recently tried out a Magellan EC-10X Version 2 portable GPS at Aircraft Spruce and Specialty Co., here in the Los Angeles area. It is a clear improvement over the earlier model with, as Jack Gageby reported, superior contrast and resolution in the satisfyingly large moving map display. I had always had some doubts about this unit from seeing Magellan ads about it in various aviation magazines because it always looked like light blue and dark blue on the display. This is certainly not the case with the Version 2. The image is black and white and very well defined. One can wear it like a kneepad and could easily replace the cigarette lighter connector with an aircraft type plug and jack. I currently plan to buy one and, unless something better shows up soon, I will. Jack Abell RV-6A N333JA (Reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: BDStobbe <70743.2727(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: fuslge side skins
I have spent my last few building sessions deburring and dimpling the endless number of holes in the fuselage skeleton and associated skins, and have the crippled hands and blisters to prove it! (And I thought there were a lot of rivets in the wings.... HA!) My question is regarding the interface of the fwd side skin F670 with the firewall F601B side piece; what is the preferred method here - dimple the skin and c-sink the F601B, or just c-sink the skin leaving the F601B untouched? My concern is that some of the cowling hinges attach here and I don't want to weaken the F601B by c-sinking it - but I also don't like the idea of c-sinking the F670 skins... Van's says dimple the skins (always) and c-sink the F601B. Any comments before I venture into NoTurningBackNowVille?? BDStobbe RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: Phil Arter <arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu>
Subject: Re: Countersinking question...
Brian, hi Try this: Countersink the thick piece so a rivet lies only about 0.005" below flush. Using a bucking bar with a hole in it to back up the parts, and with a rivet in the dimple, (without setting the rivet), tap the parts together GENTLY with the rivet gun. This will make the dimple conform to the countersunk hole. Don't over do it or the thin part will get smashed and start to wrinkle. Then squeeze or buck the rivet normally. You can also do this with double dimpled skins by using a bucking bar with a counersink in it. Phil arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu > >This is a follow-up to my question yesterday about countersinking >thick stock to accept thinner dimpled stock. I'd like to thank all >those who responded to my initial post. After trying out a few of >your ideas last night, I've got some results to report, and a >question: > >I should mention that I asked someone at Van's yesterday what the >recommended countersinking depth was for dimpled stock. His answer >was to countersink to precisely the same depth I would for a >rivet--that is, when a rivet is placed in the countersunk hole, its >factory head should be flush with the stock surface. > >I had my doubts, and figured I'd run some experiments last night. I >took a hunk of .125 angle, and drilled a scrap of .032 to it with >about 5 holes. Then, I dimpled the .032 at each hole, and as long as >I had the dimple dies out, I made up an .032 fit tab, per Bob >Skinner's instructions. > >Using the microstop, I countersunk the 5 holes in the .125 angle to >varying depths. The first hole accomodated a rivet perfectly (as Vans >suggested), but the fit tab didn't lie down in it. I increased the >depth of the succeeding countersinks until the fit tab seemed to nest >pretty well. It turns out the depth of this countersink was such that >the head of the rivet, when placed in the hole, lay .029 below the >surface. > >After setting the rivets with a squeezer. The only hole that allowed >the dimpled .032 material to sit flat against the .125 angle was the >hole that I countersunk .029 deeper than that recommended by the >fellow at Van's. > >My question is twofold: a) Is the excessive depth of my countersink >going to weaken the .125 angle? b) Why is Van's advice not working >out here? What am I doing wrong? > > >Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com >RV-6A #24751 >Preparing VS parts > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RE: Van's service charge
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: "Earl Brabandt" <cwbraban(at)ichips.intel.com>
> No, it's not. I just got a fax back from Vans, signed by Bill. They'd > prefer a check, but there's no surcharge on credit card orders. I'm happy to see that Van's has dropped the credit card surcharge because it's always seemed petty to me. However, Van has a strong sense of fairness and value which he passes on to his customers (pretty rare in the business) and I urge all builders to help Van keep his prices low by paying by check whenever possible. I hate to see money go from Van's business (and his customers pockets) to those bastards at the credit card companies who have absolutely no regard for fairness and value. Just my $.02! Calin ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: fuslge side skins
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: "Earl Brabandt" <cwbraban(at)ichips.intel.com>
> My question is regarding the interface of the fwd side skin F670 with the > firewall F601B side piece; what is the preferred method here - dimple the skin > and c-sink the F601B, or just c-sink the skin leaving the F601B untouched? > > My concern is that some of the cowling hinges attach here and I don't want to > weaken the F601B by c-sinking it - but I also don't like the idea of c-sinking > the F670 skins... > > Van's says dimple the skins (always) and c-sink the F601B. Yes! Especially around the firewall! If you don't dimple the skin, you're asking for smoking rivets. Even .032 is too thin to dimple. It requires at least .035 to keep a 3/32" rivet from breaking through, even if it's c-sunk perfectly. The F601B will be plenty strong even with the c-sunk holes. Calin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM>
Subject: Re: Bair RV-6 in Sport Aviation.
Mark D Hiatt Says: > Couple that with the gummint letting us have the industrial strength > GPS signal soon and it's going to be a whole new world, soon. Wow! They're turning off SA permanently soon? When and where did you hear that? I'd love to hear confirmation of this. It will be too cool. -- "Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!" -- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs "Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander)
Subject: Re: fuselage side skins
> >My question is regarding the interface of the fwd side skin F670 with the >firewall F601B side piece; what is the preferred method here - dimple the skin >and c-sink the F601B, or just c-sink the skin leaving the F601B untouched? > >My concern is that some of the cowling hinges attach here and I don't want to >weaken the F601B by c-sinking it - but I also don't like the idea of c-sinking >the F670 skins... > >Van's says dimple the skins (always) and c-sink the F601B. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Interesting, because his instructions say that this 0.032 skin _could_ be countersunk - not acknowledging a 33% loss in strength over dimpling! I prefer the "dimple it where you can theory" for 0.032 and 0.040 thicknesses. > >Any comments before I venture into NoTurningBackNowVille?? > >BDStobbe >RV-6 BD, The F-601B pieces are 0.063 thick, and this thickness makes it almost impossible to get a good dimple for a 3/32 rivet with our homebuilder shop tools (professionally, shops would use expensive hot dimpling techniques in this thickness). Countersink the F-601B and dimple the skin. See the RV-list archives and my posting of 22 June 1995 for actual strength values. In 0.063 material, there is _no_ effective strength difference between dimpling and countersinking. Do it like Van's say. With these thicknesses, it is just as strong. ... good luck ... Gil (building garden sheds) Alexander gil(at)rassp.hac.com RV6A, #20701 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino)
Subject: Re: WANTED: RV-4
Did you call Jim (j.j.) Banks? >Hi Gang, > >I'm still looking for that RV-4 that will make my life complete. Does anyone >have or know of an RV-4 for sale that is well-built, proven, capable of >cross-country VFR (Vacuum system mandatory, Radio & X-Ponder desireable), >relatively low time engine, flies straight but rolls and loops with ease? >Any color is acceptable except chartreuse with pink polka dots (looks are >great, but I want to fly it, not look at it). I live in Pennsylvania, so an >East coast candidate is best. But I will go anywhere if needed to check it >out. Thanks, RVfriends. > >Louis Willig >(610) 668-4964 day, night, mid-night, any time or just Email to above address. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Vertical Stab and Rudder together
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: "Earl Brabandt" <cwbraban(at)ichips.intel.com>
> I do have some questions though. > By prying the upper bracket apart a little I'm I going to cause premature > stress cracking or will the bracket be more of a spring type of affair? I can't imagine that if you can get the bearing in, it's going to cause any problems. > Also, I've pretty much decided to live with the fact that my rudder is not > exactly lined up with my Vert Stab. There is no binding and figure that's > what trim tabs are for! But, does anybody have any info that I should be > aware of that would make it wise to fix the slight misalignment? 1/32" isn't much. Check to see if the skin overhang is even too. At any rate, I wouldn't do much tweaking until you mount the tail on your fuse because you'll be tweaking skin overhangs on the fuse and such too. You could make the offset less visible by bending the skin overhangs a bit asymmetrically too. Calin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jun 04, 1996
Subject: Web Archive Search Restored...
The Web rv-list archive search engine operation has been restored. Have at it! (http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/search.html) Matt -- ################################ +----------------------+ ##### ######## +--------------------------+ | ######## ############ | Matt G. Dralle | | #### #### #### #### #### | Matronics | | #### #### #### #### #### + | P.O. Box 347 | | #### #### #### #### #### | | Livermore, CA 94551 | | #### ##### #### #### | | 1+ 510-606-1001 Voice | + # # ## ##### ### ## # # # ### ## | | 1+ 510-606-6281 FAX | ## ## # # # # # # # ## # # # ## | | dralle(at)matronics.com | # # # #### # ### # # # ## # # ## | +--------------------------+ # # # # # # # ## # # # ### ## +-----------------------+ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Vertical Stab and Rudder together
<31B45680.289C(at)millcomm.com>
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: Rudy Albachten <Rudy.Albachten(at)amd.com>
> Larry Groom said: > I finished the rudder last week and decided to bolt it to the Vertical Stab > last night. It fit pretty good although the top bracket of the stab was a bit > tight and I had to pry the bracket apart a bit to get the bearing to fit. The > rudder looked good on the stab and even moved back and forth ok! > ....... I finished my rudder a couple weeks ago. I set the HS on my kitchen table, propped up the VS & rudder, and moved the rudder back an forth at least a couple hundred times. After I had been doing this for several minutes, my friends all decided I was nuts, but I figured you guys would understand. :^) -- Rudy Albachten rudy.albachten(at)amd.com Advanced Micro Devices 512/602-5118 Austin Texas ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: Frank Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com>
Subject: Re: Countersinking question...
Brian Yablon wrote: > > Question regarding countersinking thick stock to accept thinner > dimpled stock: How much is too much? > > I'm working on the VS spar. In preparation for where the bottom needs > to be flush riveted to attach to the fuse, I started countersinking > the "tuning fork" stiffener to accept the dimpled channel. > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the goal is to > countersink the stiffener so that the dimples fit completely in the > countersinks, allowing the channel to lie completely flush with the > stiffener. I'm using a microstop with a 100 degree countersink. The > problem is, the countersinks seem to be getting awfully deep--much > deeper than if I were countersinking to accept just a rivet instead of > a dimple. How deep can you go? I poured through AC43.13 and I > couldn't find any help. > > Another question along these lines: Something's been nagging me about > dimpling spar channels and ribs to mate with dimpled skins. The back > of a dimpled skin is larger than the profile of a rivet. Since the > dimple dies are designed to allow *rivets* to sit perfectly in the > dimples, it seems obvious that *dimples* will NOT sit perfectly within > dimples. This being the case, is it true that dimpled skins never lie > perfectly flush with ribs and channels, but rather, stand slightly > proud of them? > > Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com > RV-6A #24751 > Readying empennage pieces for priming Brian, I countersunk the heavy stock the depth needed for a rivet and the dimple layed in there fine. As for the dimpled pcs into another dimpled pcs it will work fine. Don't fret over little things that have only very, very marginal affect on the finished products strength and appearance. Frank Smidler, Engineer RV-6 fuselage out of jig. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: rv-list: Wire Suppliers
>Can anyone recommend a supplier of surplus electrical wire suitable for >aircraft use. I have always seen these ads in the past. Now that I'm ready >to install the electrical system, I can's seem to find any. > > >Thanks in advance. > >-Scott N506RV >scottg(at)villagenet.com > > Scott, Our EAA chapter still has _some_ wire left. Not all sizes, though. We can, however, sell you #2, #4 or #6 wire. I recommend #2 or #4 for the battery lead. Are you anywhere near Seattle or Kansas City? Boeing has a large surplus store here in Seattle; they sell wire for about $1.50/pound. Our price is $1.00/pound plus shipping. Go to go for now. Email me if you're interested in any of our wire. John Ammeter ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com Seattle WA, USA RV-6 N16JA Flying 5 years ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: fuslge side skins
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: "Earl Brabandt" <cwbraban(at)ichips.intel.com>
Earlier today I said... > Yes! Especially around the firewall! If you don't dimple the skin, > you're asking for smoking rivets. Even .032 is too thin to dimple. ^^^^^ Ooops! Meant to say machine countersink. Sorry! > It requires at least .035 to keep a 3/32" rivet from breaking > through, even if it's c-sunk perfectly. > > The F601B will be plenty strong even with the c-sunk holes. > > Calin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: fuslge side skins
This is not so much an answer as a further question. In order to get my F601B pieces flat I fluted them. Now when I go to add the hinge pieces they don't like the flutes (damn!). I thought of grinding off the flutes but Ken at Van's said no, push them back flat with a hand seamer (yuck!). A friend notche his 601Bs rather than fluting. I could shim between the flutes but this would be painful (many small shim bits). What solutions have others used? Leo Davies 6A >I have spent my last few building sessions deburring and dimpling the endless >number of holes in the fuselage skeleton and associated skins, and have the >crippled hands and blisters to prove it! (And I thought there were a lot of >rivets in the wings.... HA!) > >My question is regarding the interface of the fwd side skin F670 with the >firewall F601B side piece; what is the preferred method here - dimple the skin >and c-sink the F601B, or just c-sink the skin leaving the F601B untouched? > >My concern is that some of the cowling hinges attach here and I don't want to >weaken the F601B by c-sinking it - but I also don't like the idea of c-sinking >the F670 skins... > >Van's says dimple the skins (always) and c-sink the F601B. > >Any comments before I venture into NoTurningBackNowVille?? > >BDStobbe >RV-6 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: Re: Vertical Stab and Rudder together
You wrote: > >I finished my rudder a couple weeks ago. I set the HS on my kitchen >table, propped up the VS & rudder, and moved the rudder back an forth >at least a couple hundred times. After I had been doing this for >several minutes, my friends all decided I was nuts, but I figured you >guys would understand. >:^) > > > >-- >Rudy Albachten rudy.albachten(at)amd.com >Advanced Micro Devices 512/602-5118 >Austin Texas > > > Absolutely! In fact, we have to practice with these little grins so that, when the big day comes, we don't split our faces from ear to ear. Best regards, -- Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246 Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: GPS selective availability
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: "Earl Brabandt" <cwbraban(at)ichips.intel.com>
> Wow! They're turning off SA permanently soon? When and where did you hear > that? I'd love to hear confirmation of this. It will be too cool. Don't hold your breath! Last I read, it will still be two or three years. Although the government is "committed" to do it, the U.S. military needs to study "alternatives." I got all excited when I first heard the news too, but from what I've heard lately, my excitement was very premature. I think the announcement was just government "P.R." in an election year--complete with a statement from Bill Clinton. Cal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: Boris Robinson <smbr(at)inetw.net>
Subject: Re: Back riveting
> Question: I wonder if the top surfaces of the outboard >leading edge and the fuel tank could be back riveted? I was thinking of >doing this on the wing by bending the bottom skin as far out of the way as >possible. The fuel tank would be a challange and it's possible that a few >of the rivets close to the nose would have to be set conventionally. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net > > Bob, I am back riveting my outboard leading edge skins and it's no problem to lift the bottom part, except for the front few rivets as you stated. For some reason my forward ribs on both wings are permanently attached to the spars, it was a long time ago and I can't quite remember what wheel I was re-inventing at the time. I hadn't thought about the tank skins. Please keep me posted (the list) if you do this. Thanks, Boris ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 04, 1996
Subject: Re: GPS
> I use the EC-10X day and night in all kinds of weather. > So how is the display in direct Sunlight? Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV (Installing optional electric flaps) wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BrabstonD(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 04, 1996
Subject: Re: Elevator Trim Tab Horn
Look carefully in all the packing for your empenage. I found parts in some pretty hidden places. The piece of alumunum should be about 4" square. If the thickest piece you found was .032 you are missing some back plates for your rudder and elevator henges also, or have you already built them. The part will cost you about $3.00. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BrabstonD(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 04, 1996
Subject: Re: Personal information
Sorry about that. My name is Doug Brabston. I live in Columbus, GA. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BrabstonD(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 04, 1996
Subject: Re: Trim Tab
I bent the end tabs to construct the trim tab on my RV6. A couple of tips. Cut a "V" in the end of a piece of 3/4" thick wood. Make the "V" about the same size as the inside of the trim tab will be when finished. Place the cut out piece inside the tab with the outside edge on the line where you want to bend the ends down. Then slide the outside piece over it clamps the skin between the two pieces. Then use "C" clamps to clamp wood tightly against the skin. Now you can hammer the ends down against the wood. This will give you a nice even bend. Make sure your tabs that bend down will be wide enough, proper overlap, for good edge distance when you install your pop rovets. If you screw it up, you can always put the end ribs in. I think people normally use .024 aluminum. Some of our ribs in the stabalizers are only .024. I'm sure .032 will be good enough. Doug Brabston ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander)
Subject: Re: fuslge side skins
>This is not so much an answer as a further question. In order to get my >F601B pieces flat I fluted them. Now when I go to add the hinge pieces they >don't like the flutes (damn!). I thought of grinding off the flutes but Ken >at Van's said no, push them back flat with a hand seamer (yuck!). A friend >notche his 601Bs rather than fluting. I could shim between the flutes but >this would be painful (many small shim bits). What solutions have others used? > >Leo Davies 6A > *** sent privately *** Leo, Same thing happened to me .... :^( Pushing the flutes back without distorting the &*^%$ out of the flange sounds a little difficult to me. Sounds like you spoke to Ken "use a bigger hammer" Scott ... :^) I just made up the required shims with "hollowed out" portions to fit the locations of the flutes. It really wasn't that bad to do. I used a small drum sander in my die grinder. I actually used a 0.040 shim strip (instead of 0.032) betweeen the inside of the F-601B and the hinge piece, and all of my flutes were less than 0.040 high - pure luck ... :^) I think I ended up with about 3 pieces of shim per side. See section E-E on page 31 of the plans. Be sure to put some ProSeal in there (for sealing only, not for structural) when you rivet to make sure that the firewall is as airtight as you can get it.... ... this one should be an easy fix ... Gil Alexander gil(at)rassp.hac.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net>
Subject: Dimpling
All this discussion about dimpling and countersinking has caused me to ask this question. I just drilled my forward bottom skin (F672) to the firewall and F604 bulkhead and did it as recommended in the recent RVator (page 18 I think). Now about the floor stiffner angles. I've currently drilled them #3 and Vans said no need to drill them #4. I would prefer to dimple them but don't have any experience dimpling .040 skins for #3 rivets. Has anyone dimpled this skin for #3 rivet and what kind of results have you obtained after riveting. Also, what about countersinking the floor stiffners an extra amount (?) to accept the dimple. chet razer: fitting side skins ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bair RV-6 in Sport Aviation.
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)indirect.com>
Previously written: >> Couple that with the gummint letting us have the industrial strength >> GPS signal soon and it's going to be a whole new world, soon. > >Wow! They're turning off SA permanently soon? When and where did you hear >that? I'd love to hear confirmation of this. It will be too cool. I work for the "gummint"(USAF) and am involved in some GPS user equipment testing issues; based on what I am seeing and hearing, "soon" is a relative term. There are security issues that need to be resolved (folks unfriendly to Uncle Sam using GPS to target U.S. assets, whether it be military forces or terrorist groups, etc..) Other concerns are jamming suceptibility, especially high interest services like GPS precision approaches. There are purely military concerns as well - remember,GPS was developed by the military for precision navigation and targeting. The DoD really is trying to open GPS up to civil users, but the sticky wicket is doing so while preserving the navigation/targeting advantages for our side while denying it to "them". Bottom line - "soon" is probably a couple to a few years away. As an aside, without an IFR-certfied GPS, you would probably see no improvement in the navigation accuracy of your units if selective availability (SA) was disabled. That would be more a function of the inherent display resolution of GPS units in use than anything else. In other words, can your GPS provide accurate enough steering displays to effectively utilize the improved signal accuracies? This was longer than intended. Just a reality check. Mike Kukulski (kukulski(at)indirect.com) RV-4 N96MK (wing root fairings, flap linkages, fuel & vent lines, etc) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 04, 1996
Subject: Top fwd fuse skin
A lot of people have mentioned the wisdom of leaving the top forward fuse skin off (6A) until the last possible moment for ease of installing everything underneath. My question is: how long can you wait? I've just mounted my engine (oooh, ahhh) and I still have most of the weight supported by the hoist. I'm concerned that putting all of the weight on the nosewheel might not be good for the fwd fuse without the top skin on. Am I just being paranoid? I'd like to wait until I've plumbed and wired the engine before I rivet the skin on. Has anyone done this? Thanks, Ed Bundy ebundy2620(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 05, 1996
Subject: Re: Pulled Rivets
The sharp edge is caused by using a rivet pulling head with a hole that is too big. When you pull the rivet, part of the head is squeezed up into the hole in the head causing the sharp edge. The best thing to use to get rid of the edge is a Scotchbrite roloc pad on a die grinder or a Scotchbrite wheel on a die grinder. To prevent the sharp edges, use a head in the pulling tool that is a tight fit for the rivet stem. Jim Cone jamescone(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: wbpace(at)adnc.com (Bill Pace)
Subject: Re: Pulled Rivets
>When I pull blind rivets, I always end up with a sharp edge on them just >off center. Most of the rivet looks good, but I consistently get this one >sharp edge. This is with all the pulled rivets that ship with the empennage. > Your rivet puller should have come with adapters for the business end that will handle various mandrel diameters. My trusty Sears mid-range Craftsman has three with holes in the handle to screw the idle adapters into for safe-keeping. If you use an adapter that is too large, the puller will pull some of the rivet material up inside of the gun and leave the little edge you mention. If your puller doesn't have multiple adapters, then I would imagine that the little trick described by Doug Medema should work well. ----- Bill Pace The only expensive tool wbpace(at)adnc.com is a cheap tool. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Spruell <sspruell(at)ghgcorp.com>
Subject: Vertical Stab and Rudder together
Date: Jun 05, 1996
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB5275.07986620 Yup, same silly mini-grin here. I rigged up a wooden block arrangement = to mount my freshly completed VS to my HS clamped in a workmate. Must = have walked around it 20 times just to feel like I was doing a really = thorough preflight. Had to call my neighbor over for a look - he's a = plane guy, he understands. My wife just says "oh, so now you'll clean = up the garage some?" Oh well, on to the control surfaces. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------- Steven Spruell League City, TX sspruell(at)us.oracle.com RV-6A Empennage sspruell(at)ghgcorp.com (713) 332-9349 ---------- From: William Costello [SMTP:ix.netcom.com!bcos(at)matronics.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 1996 7:26 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Vertical Stab and Rudder together=20 You wrote:=20 > >I finished my rudder a couple weeks ago. I set the HS on my kitchen=20 >table, propped up the VS & rudder, and moved the rudder back an forth=20 >at least a couple hundred times. After I had been doing this for=20 >several minutes, my friends all decided I was nuts, but I figured you=20 >guys would understand. >:^) > > > >--=20 >Rudy Albachten rudy.albachten(at)amd.com >Advanced Micro Devices 512/602-5118 >Austin Texas > > > Absolutely! In fact, we have to practice with these little grins so=20 that, when the big day comes, we don't split our faces from ear to ear. Best regards, --=20 Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246 Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB5275.07986620 eJ8+IgcFAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ACQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAEkAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20AU01UUABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20A AAAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABYAAABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20A AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAYAAAAJ3J2LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbScAAgEL MAEAAAAbAAAAU01UUDpSVi1MSVNUQE1BVFJPTklDUy5DT00AAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYP AQAAAAQAAAAAAAADNDcBCIAHABgAAABJUE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90ZQAxCAEEgAEAMAAA AFJFOiBSVi1MaXN0OiBWZXJ0aWNhbCBTdGFiIGFuZCBSdWRkZXIgdG9nZXRoZXIgABsQAQWAAwAO AAAAzAcGAAUAAAAVADgAAwAuAQEggAMADgAAAMwHBgAFAAAADgA7AAMAKgEBCYABACEAAAAyNEE0 QzU2QzY1QkVDRjExQkUyRjQ0NDU1MzU0MDAwMAAKBwEDkAYAIAcAABIAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAA AAAACwApAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQCA67/pnlK7AR4AcAABAAAAMAAAAFJFOiBSVi1MaXN0OiBW ZXJ0aWNhbCBTdGFiIGFuZCBSdWRkZXIgdG9nZXRoZXIgAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG7Up7pr2zFpCW+ ZRHPvi9ERVNUAAAAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAVAAAAc3NwcnVlbGxAZ2hn Y29ycC5jb20AAAAAAwAGEG1xn8gDAAcQoQQAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAFlVUCxTQU1FU0lMTFlNSU5J LUdSSU5IRVJFSVJJR0dFRFVQQVdPT0RFTkJMT0NLQVJSQU5HRU1FTlRUT01PVU5UTVlGUkVTSExZ Q09NUExFVEVEVlNUT01ZSFNDTEFNUEVESU4AAAAAAgEJEAEAAACJBQAAhQUAAFQJAABMWkZ1oLsz Jv8ACgEPAhUCqAXrAoMAUALyCQIAY2gKwHNldDI3BgAGwwKDMgPFAgBwckJxEeJzdGVtAoMzdwLk BxMCgH0KgAjPCdk78RYPMjU1AoAKgQ2xC2DgbmcxMDMUUAsKFFEFC/JjAEAgWXVwLDggc2EHgBsw AxBseWQgbQuAaS0JwAuAIAJoBJBlLiAgSSApBRBnZwmAIBsAIGE4IHdvBHEDoAJgb2Pyax2wcnIZ ARPgCfAFQNx0bxvgCGAfQW0b0ANQ7QeQaBvBBaBtC1ARwB1hrlYF8B9yG9BIBfBjC2DPINAdYRxh HcJyawDAE9CZHNFNdRPAHIBhdhtw+ncHQGsdYQrAH7EicQVAtwHQH2AHc2ojoh9xZgngeQMgbGkk YBzxJDAEIGR6bwuAZx2xFhAHQBvBdMZoBbAIYGdoIBNQGNHJHTBodBzRSGEdcB9x5mMn8R/ybmUp IQbgBcB+byQABcACEAXAHcAVoG/1HpAtHIEnBCAdwAtRKoDwIGd1eRsgHJAdgCTg5wSQE8AAcGRz I2Ib0APwDyZQJcQbQBOwICJvaFMbIR+Abm8H4HkIYCf/KiEiECfgA6AdkShALOEKwM5hHVAvwQeA PyIKhQqF6k8osHcmcGwbIAIgH2JfMUIFoAIwA2ADIHMIcGbrANAHkC4yXC02XzdvOH93OY86fAqF UxPQJAADoFN/E1AKUBuwDIIDMDzvPVBMNyfgLQAbcEMlEC0hVFjXCoUEEDx0QCOgLgWwANAdIPAu ILE9L0FBUlYtkDZBIEUiQW5uMbFrP14ooGcFoXBA70U1KCA3MTMpIBlQMi1wOTM0OTJcCvQmoDH8 NDQC0RwgSIMM0EiDC1ncMTYKoANgE9BjBUA679dJvQwwSqZGA2E6TC5Kpq1FA1cboQcwbT7AbxPB AxuwH4BbU01UUDpoaXguKoB0ILFEwiFyYgWgc0AjIQNgAwBj+y4gILFdS89M3QZgAjBOD2VPG1QK UHNkL0AbIEoTH8AbcDA0GyAxOTkgNiA3OjJY0FBNM1NvTN1Ub1WvTxtydj4tJqATwFJ8WW9UfnVi zmpK4VuPTxtSZWEgQmH2TF2hYSBWBJAlcCoBO+HnRSEt8QfwdWQEgR9hHVDfMUEypwqPGhhKplkI YB3Q90qyYSAyXD5pth0ASNADAP8gYB1hIAE8gGUTHcAFoBsAkyDwM1FlayxhZ28c098RsTEzIeEz wSABayUQEXC/HiFptgGRIPAbIEqhcCJS+zEVIVEma4UbIGSyBGAkAPcpsS1Ra5ViANAekQOgK2F/ KEBppyMwJpAn4COxbAdo7yTRFhElZBzRQQGAKzEdAPsRgB1wYgnhJ0UoQAQAK1NfabYRsCshZDEb 8XUT0HN/GyAgAwiQLgEdsCohBYFp3w2wHXAm9HmheeFiebAc8f9I0C0AdcIwQWmnLQEEIB3gHHVs HXEtlzVmPjpefilpvmm+OnBpp2TxG9BBPmxzASlAHiGDiWuReS47B0CDFUAbUH8gXog+QdxkdgBw NTAdcE1S4ANgPCBEPBBS4AeRg4E1MTAyLzYwRsCHwDE4x4WnI6EcYVRleCcggH85acxBYi/QCkBQ kXkh9xzhc2EA0HQbIDNgI9Qfcf8TUIzBh0EugXOxMUERsCaR/wJAbGEcQgQgL9FmZShAIzD3jPFu wjFCYh0wJ0AvQCCi53nSjREnUG4nLxELUCUR7whhjKIHkQNSICfgZUKUIn01bUIHkAVAFhAxgS4Q LNs152XtQhuhUFh8HkBSQntRW5jhQ3gAKgBtAJjhMxWH0C1IkDVI8DI0NvWVVnUDEGQnckJiKwAF wD9CkZjwYwARsF1gHWFOOfg3V0MyXGZvZ38ythUxAgCiMAAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcw oEs08Z1SuwFAAAgwoEs08Z1SuwEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAADox ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB5275.07986620-- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 1996
From: Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com>
Subject: Merced
Are any of you RV-listers going to be at the Merced, CA flyin this weekend? If you are be sure to stop by and say hi. My RV-6 will be the one with the fancy prop information card with a picture of my RV flying upside down. -- Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First Flight July 14, 1989 :-) jerryflyrv(at)yvv.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Bennett" <bennett(at)healey.com.au>
Date: Jun 05, 1996
Subject: Re: Countersinking question...
> Brian Yablon wrote: > > > > Question regarding countersinking thick stock to accept thinner > > dimpled stock: How much is too much? > > > > I'm working on the VS spar. In preparation for where the bottom needs > > to be flush riveted to attach to the fuse, I started countersinking > > the "tuning fork" stiffener to accept the dimpled channel. > > > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the goal is to > > countersink the stiffener so that the dimples fit completely in the > > countersinks, allowing the channel to lie completely flush with the > > stiffener. I'm using a microstop with a 100 degree countersink. The > > problem is, the countersinks seem to be getting awfully deep--much > > deeper than if I were countersinking to accept just a rivet instead of > > a dimple. How deep can you go? I poured through AC43.13 and I > > couldn't find any help. > > > > Another question along these lines: Something's been nagging me about > > dimpling spar channels and ribs to mate with dimpled skins. The back > > of a dimpled skin is larger than the profile of a rivet. Since the > > dimple dies are designed to allow *rivets* to sit perfectly in the > > dimples, it seems obvious that *dimples* will NOT sit perfectly within > > dimples. This being the case, is it true that dimpled skins never lie > > perfectly flush with ribs and channels, but rather, stand slightly > > proud of them? > > > > Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com > > RV-6A #24751 > > Readying empennage pieces for priming > > > Brian, > > I countersunk the heavy stock the depth needed for a rivet and the > dimple layed in there fine. As for the dimpled pcs into another dimpled > pcs it will work fine. Don't fret over little things that have only > very, very marginal affect on the finished products strength and > appearance. > > Frank Smidler, Engineer > RV-6 fuselage out of jig. > I countersink the heavy stock .010 deeper than if I were setting a rivet. The pieces sit together nicely then. Peter Bennett Sydney Australia RV6 Fuselage out of jig. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 05, 1996
Subject: Re: Fuse
>I'm about to order the Fuse and am looking for things (options) I should >consider when ordering. I plan to order the RV-6A with: > - Sliding canopy > - Step > - Stainless Steel roll support > - dual brakes. > >Anything else? The list input is truely welcome... > >Thanks. > >Dick Flunker, Nearing completion of right wing >RV-6A, N326DB - res >(RFLUNKER(at)AOL.COM) > > How about electric Vs mechanical flaps....... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 05, 1996
Subject: Electric Flap Installation
RV Listers: I'm currently installing the optional electric flap kit into my RV-6A (tiltup canopy). Most of the construction is done, and I've gotten around the problems associated with the canopy latch mechanism. But now I see that access to the seat back hinge pins for the two rearward positions, is blocked by the electric flap "box". I've considered drilling holes in the base of the "box" and sliding longer hinge pins through each side. I've also cosidered splitting the length of the existing pin, eliminating the center hinge element, and installing both pin halves from the center of the hinge length (just like we do for the aileron hinge pins). Any other suggestions out there? Those of you that have this option installed, how have you handled this problem? Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: Graham Taylor <gmt(at)opera.iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: RE: Service Charge (was Speed/Rate of Climb)
> > My RV-8 empennage order form doesn't mention any 4% service charge for credit > card. I'd like to know if this is for real. > > Steve Johnson > spjohnson(at)mmm.com > Yes Steve, it probably is. The credit card companies charge the merchant (Vans) a percentage of the amount charged. The usual practice is for the vendor to pass that on to the purchaser, that's you. A cash advance on your credit card to your check account, and a check costing 32 cents is alot cheaper. Phone Vans, you should be able to reverse it if you're quick. Graham Taylor (gmt(at)iinet.net.au) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Electric Flap Installation
Fred; This method worked great for me, it even makes it easier to pull pins and adjust the seat. I've had it on for about 2 years and have found no problems. I didn't understand your 'canopy lock ' problem with installing the elec. flaps. Mine is a 6 with tilt up, and there was no prob. at all with the canopy lock, had absolutely no bearing with the elec. flap installation, must be the diff. between 6 and 6A. John D I've also considered >splitting the length of the existing pin, eliminating the center hinge >element, and installing both pin halves from the center of the hinge length >(just like we do for the aileron hinge pins). > Any other suggestions out there? Those of you that have this option >installed, how have you handled this problem? > >Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV >wstucklen(at)aol.com > John Darby RV6 N61764 flying johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: James Kelley <72466.1355(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Fuel pickup and strainer?
Anyone using the idea of the removable strainer that was in the RV-ator & F. Justice notes? if so, where did you place it? Is it worth installing and what is the part # of the strainer? One more: I don't plan on long term inverted flight, so is there any value in installing the flop tube pickup? James Kelley 72466.1355(at)compuserve.com (RV6A, Leading edges completed and main skins drilled.) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com>
Subject: Re: rv-list: Wire Suppliers
> >Our EAA chapter still has _some_ wire left. Not all sizes, though. We can, >however, sell you #2, #4 or #6 wire. I recommend #2 or #4 for the battery lead. > >Are you anywhere near Seattle or Kansas City? Boeing has a large surplus >store here in Seattle; they sell wire for about $1.50/pound. Our price is >$1.00/pound plus shipping. > >Go to go for now. Email me if you're interested in any of our wire. > >John Ammeter >ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com >Seattle WA, USA >RV-6 N16JA >Flying 5 years > > > John, Thanks for your response. I just purchased the wire for the battery leads from Bob (Aeroelectrical Connection). If I need any more I'll let you know. -Scott N506RV (engine and prop on) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Re: Vertical Stab and Rudder together
Date: Jun 05, 1996
> I finished my rudder a couple weeks ago. I set the HS on my kitchen table, > propped up the VS & rudder, and moved the rudder back an forth at least > a couple hundred times. After I had been doing this for several minutes, > my friends all decided I was nuts, but I figured you guys would understand. > :^) Don't worry -- I think we all do this. I know I did. -J -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037 Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg 6121 St. Croix Ave. N. Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: Pat McClung <pmc123(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Pulled Rivets
Larson, Joe (Joe Larson) wrote: > > Something has been bugging me for quite some time, and it just occurred to me > to see if any of you have a solution. > > When I pull blind rivets, I always end up with a sharp edge on them just > off center. Most of the rivet looks good, but I consistently get this one > sharp edge. This is with all the pulled rivets that ship with the empennage. > > Does anyone else get this same thing? Is it a technique problem? Is my > inexpensive puller just too inexpensive? Or is this standard? > > Does anyone know how to get rid of it? I tried using the deburring tool, but > because the sharp edge is raised while the rest of the center is inset like > it appears it should be, the debur tool doesn't seem to work very well. > > -Joe > > -- > Joe Larson Joe, it sounds like the hole in the puller is too large for the pop rivet you are using. Either a "nose piece" with a hole closer to the size of the "Nail" or, use a scrap of .063 with an exact hole size drilled in it and used as a washer between the puller and the pop rivet will help. Some types of the pop rivets Van sends are made of soft material and pulls up into the tool when you set it. That's what I did to solve that problem. Hope it works for you.. Pat McClung 3XM - Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com>
Subject: Re: Vertical Stab and Rudder together
>> >>I finished my rudder a couple weeks ago. I set the HS on my kitchen >>table, propped up the VS & rudder, and moved the rudder back an forth >>at least a couple hundred times. After I had been doing this for >>several minutes, my friends all decided I was nuts, but I figured you >>guys would understand. >>:^) >> Just wait until your fuse is up on the gear and the seats are in. The amount of stick time that you get and the airplane noises you'll make will convince the entire neighborhood that your nuts. -Scott N506RV Still making airplane noises, but I can at least SEE the prop ahead of me :)3 scottg(at)villagenet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com>
Subject: Re: Top fwd fuse skin
>A lot of people have mentioned the wisdom of leaving the top forward fuse >skin off (6A) until the last possible moment for ease of installing >everything underneath. My question is: how long can you wait? > >I've just mounted my engine (oooh, ahhh) and I still have most of the weight >supported by the hoist. I'm concerned that putting all of the weight on the >nosewheel might not be good for the fwd fuse without the top skin on. Am I >just being paranoid? I'd like to wait until I've plumbed and wired the >engine before I rivet the skin on. Has anyone done this? > >Thanks, >Ed Bundy >ebundy2620(at)aol.com > > I wouldn't worry about it. The majority of the weight of the engine is taken up by the various longerons and angle stock on the sides. FYI, I'm in the same boat as you. I mounted the engine and C/S prop on my -6A, tip-up over the weekend. This was done with the top, forward skin removed. There was no problem with misalignment due to deflection of the structure when I clecoed the top skin back on. Also look at it this way: the structure is rated at about +6 limit load factor. With the plane sitting in your shop, it will only see 1g. That top skin is NOT supporting 5g's in flight!! I don't think the top skin really supports any of the bending moment of the engine at all. Be prepared for the fuse and engine combination to be MUCH harder to move around than you were used to, especially if your empenage is not mounted yet (it takes a lot of down force on the tail to get the nose gear off the ground to pivot the plane). -Scott N506RV scottg(at)villagenet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com>
Subject: Re: Electric Flap Installation
>RV Listers: > > I'm currently installing the optional electric flap kit into my RV-6A >(tiltup canopy). Most of the construction is done, and I've gotten around the >problems associated with the canopy latch mechanism. But now I see that >access to the seat back hinge pins for the two rearward positions, is blocked >by the electric flap "box". I've considered drilling holes in the base of the >"box" and sliding longer hinge pins through each side. I've also cosidered >splitting the length of the existing pin, eliminating the center hinge >element, and installing both pin halves from the center of the hinge length >(just like we do for the aileron hinge pins). > Any other suggestions out there? Those of you that have this option >installed, how have you handled this problem? > >Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV >wstucklen(at)aol.com > > It appears that you missed a revision is a past RV-ator. Van's recommends that all seat hinges on the -6's be installed with the center two "loops" of the hinges. You then make two hinge pins for each seat and install them from the center out. If you need a copy of the revision, let me know. I can try to dig it up and fax it to you. BTW, my seats are installed according to this latest revision and it works well. -Scott N506RV scottg(at)villagenet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: av8r(at)hic.net
Date: Jun 05, 1996
Subject: Re: Top fwd fuse skin
>A lot of people have mentioned the wisdom of leaving the top forward fuse >skin off (6A) until the last possible moment for ease of installing >everything underneath. My question is: how long can you wait?> >I've just mounted my engine (oooh, ahhh) and I still have most of the weight >supported by the hoist. I'm concerned that putting all of the weight on the >nosewheel might not be good for the fwd fuse without the top skin on. Am I >just being paranoid? I'd like to wait until I've plumbed and wired the >engine before I rivet the skin on. Has anyone done this? >Thanks, >Ed Bundy >ebundy2620(at)aol.com Hi Ed, Just my $0.02. This is one (of very few!) areas where I don't agree with George Orndorff's tapes. He rivets on the top skin early and seems to spend a fair bit of time on his back between the pedals. Obviously his body shape is more amenable to this than mine. (I believe the P.C. term is that I am gravitationally disadvantaged) Also, I have the 2" sub panel on the bottom of the Instrument panel (which I highly recommend), for switches / controls / fuel gauges and breakers etc - which obviously reduces access room to some extent. It still can be done, but you won't like it unless you are a 4' midget with 5' arms. I did drill and cleco the top skin early on, but didn't rivet until I was sure that all the 'lectric gubbins worked. When clecoed, I only took it off when I needed access, but really, when you think about it, the engine weight is transreferred to the fuse through the longerons and those bloody big bottom angles that the engine mount bolts on to. I, at least, had no problems with distortion or anything - proof, I drilled and fitted the skin before the engine was hung, and the clecoes still worked in the same holes after it was hung.. Hope this helps... Regards Rob Lee RV6A N517RL flying - av8r(at)hic.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel pickup and strainer?
Date: Jun 05, 1996
If your engine will have a carb with a float, then there is little value in putting in a flop tube. If you will have fuel injection or some carb which will run inverted then I would suggest adding the flop tube pickup. If you plan any extended inverted more than a few seconds, you need inverted oil system also. Herman > One more: > I don't plan on long term inverted flight, so is there any value in installing > the flop tube pickup? > > > James Kelley > 72466.1355(at)compuserve.com > > (RV6A, Leading edges completed and main skins drilled.) -------------------------------------------------------- *NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my own and are independent of my employer. Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: "tom metty" <Tom=Metty%Foreman%MaintSvc(at)bfmailer.bf.umich.edu>
Subject: Pulled Rivets
I had the same problem. I used a short piece of hacksaw blade and drilled a hole in it to pull through. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: GPS
> >> I use the EC-10X day and night in all kinds of weather. >> I've heard this unit has an extremely slow screen update? Any comments? Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com) Rancho Santa Margarita, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com>
Subject: Re: Electric Flap Installation
>It appears that you missed a revision is a past RV-ator. Van's recommends >that all seat hinges on the -6's be installed with the center two "loops" of >the hinges. You then make two hinge pins for each seat and install them >from the center out. If you need a copy of the revision, let me know. I can >try to dig it up and fax it to you. BTW, my seats are installed according >to this latest revision and it works well. > >-Scott N506RV >scottg(at)villagenet.com > > > Oops, my mistake. The second sentence should read ... with the center two "loops" of the hinge REMOVED. -Scott N506RV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE)
Subject: Oil Temp
Fellow builders, I'm looking at engine guages for thr RV6 made by Auto Meter. They are nice quality "competition" guages, but the oil temp guage scale only goes from 60 to 250 degrees f. The Ispro guages from Van's goes from 160 to 320 degrees f. Is 250 too low for aircraft engines? I guess I've never really paid attention to the readings when flying, only the color markings on the guage. I'd like to install a nice matched set of guages. Any comments? Thanks Ed Cole RV6A #24430 ecole(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: Cleaveland Tool and Material <clevtool(at)tdsi.net>
Subject: Address change for Cleaveland
Cleaveland Aircraft Tool's E-mail address has been changed to "clevtool(at)tdsi.net" all mail sent to the old address CAT3TOOLS(at)AOL.COM will be returned. Also for those of you that don't yet have the '96' catalog we now have a new 800 number for orders... 1-800-368-1922. Please make a note in your catalogs and tell others that may not belong to the rv-list. Thank You Mike Lauritsen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: Don Mack <donmack@super-highway.net>
Subject: Re: Electric Flap Installation
>...splitting the length of the existing pin, eliminating the center hinge >element, and installing both pin halves from the center of the hinge length >(just like we do for the aileron hinge pins). >Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV Fred, I hope your aileron hinge pins are on your flaps or did you creater flaperons? :) don mack rv-6a donmack@super-highway.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough)
Subject: Re: Electric Flap Installation
Fred, I believe the tried and tested way is to split the hinges and pins. This is how I've done mine, how all the AirBeetles were done and it seems to work just fine. You lose maybe 2 or 3 loops max, so strength is not really a concern. Ken, RV6A, still trying the fuel flow test! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 05, 1996
Subject: Re: Top fwd fuse skin
>>A lot of people have mentioned the wisdom of leaving the top forward fuse >>skin off (6A) until the last possible moment for ease of installing >>everything underneath. My question is: how long can you wait? Leave it off until you are ready to install the front windscreen. This should be one of the last items you complete. My plane was just about flyable when the canopy/windscreen was installed. Once the top skin and canopy are complete you have very limited access to the inside of the plane. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 05, 1996
Subject: Fuel Flop Tube
IMO, even if you don't plan on having an inverted fuel system, I would install one flop tube. The reason is that you might one day decide that you want an inverted system and the modification of the fuel tank would be a pain in the @$$ once the plane is together and flying. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Temp
Date: Jun 05, 1996
240 deg. F should be absolute max redline for air cooled engine. Your normal oil temp should be between 180 and 200. Most RV's run cold oil temp due to the high speed airflow over the cooler. Herman > Fellow builders, > I'm looking at engine guages for thr RV6 made by Auto Meter. They are > nice quality "competition" guages, but the oil temp guage scale only > goes from 60 to 250 degrees f. The Ispro guages from Van's goes from > 160 to 320 degrees f. Is 250 too low for aircraft engines? I guess I've > never really paid attention to the readings when flying, only the color > markings on the guage. I'd like to install a nice matched set of > guages. Any comments? > Thanks > Ed Cole RV6A #24430 > ecole(at)ix.netcom.com > Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 05, 1996
Subject: Re: Oil Temp
>I'm looking at engine guages for thr RV6 made by Auto Meter. They are >nice quality "competition" guages, but the oil temp guage scale only >goes from 60 to 250 degrees f. The Ispro guages from Van's goes from >160 to 320 degrees f. I wondered the same thing about the scale on Van's gauge. (140-320) A quick call to a Lycoming tech gave me these specs for an 0-320: Oil temp - 140 minimum operating temp, 180-200 normal, 245 redline. Considering a lot of people have trouble maintaining 140 during cruise in the winter, that gauge sounds very inadequate. I bought one from ACS with a range of 100-260. BTW, if anyone's interested the oil pressure specs are: 25psi min @ idle, 70-85psi in cruise, 90 max continuous, 100 redline. -- Ed Bundy ebundy2620(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: frankv(at)pec.co.nz
Date: Jun 06, 1996
Subject: Re: Chatter: Top fwd fuse skin
>Also, I have the 2" sub panel on the bottom of the Instrument panel >(which I highly recommend), for switches / controls / fuel gauges >and breakers etc - which obviously reduces access room to some >extent. It still can be done, but you won't like it unless you are a >4' midget with 5' arms. For hire: Orangutan... call 555-23934, ask for Clint to send Clyde round. :-) -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass; Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read". PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!" http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ | -------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen)
Subject: Re: Vertical Stab and Rudder together
You wrote: > >I finished the rudder last week and decided to bolt it to the Vertical Stab >last night. It fit pretty good although the top bracket of the stab was a bit >tight and I had to pry the bracket apart a bit to get the bearing to fit. The >rudder looked good on the stab and even moved back and forth ok! I did notice >however, after looking at the tail assy from the trailing edge that at the >top the rudder is not exactly in the center of the trailing edge of the Stab. Larry, I had the same problem with mine. I diagnosed the problem as either the the rear spar of the vertical stab or the front spar of the rudder got twisted slightly at the top thereby putting the fulcrum slightly off center. Like you, I was dissappointed in myself that I could have made such a mistake. Since then I have looked at numerous flying RVs and I think about 1/2 of them have this problem and fly just fine. Peter n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com ______________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: Charles H Fink <CHFINK(at)envc.sandia.gov>
Subject: GPS SELECTIVE AVAILABILITY
Here is my $0.02 on GPS selective availability. Mike Kukulski's comments were very well stated and he addressed the key issue that is denying a very inexpensive targeting system to the nut cases out there. Look at the SCUD that was used in the Gulf War. Its accuracy could be improved by several orders of magnitude with a $200.00 GPS and $1000.00 interface to the guidance system. Also any aircraft with an GPS and 3 axis autopilot system could be loaded with explosives and hit any target in the world with more destructive capability than the truck in Oklahoma City. But the civilian benefits extend well beyond aviation and the DOD is working to provide the most accuracy possible while maintaining reasonable security. Tests are currently being conducted at White Sands, New Mexico on a system that provides localized interference with the signal rather than altering the satellite signals. If this proves feasible then *sensitive* areas could be protected while allowing the system to be used for legitimate purposes. How long will this take? Your guess is as good as mine. To answer Mike's question, yes, even hand held GPS receivers can provide accurate enough steering displays to effectively utilize the improved signal accuracy. Charles Fink, chfink(at)envc.sandia.gov, RV-6 flying but this working for a living sure does interfere with the flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: john henley <j.henley(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Rudder Pedal Placement
I am seeking inputs on where to place my rudder pedals. I need to have maximum leg room. I called vans and they recommended I find a RV6 and measure how much travel the pedals actually need without hitting the firewall with full rudder and brakes applied. I do not have access to a RV to measure. I would appreciate any help. Thanks in advance. John Henley, RV6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: Louis Willig <larywil(at)Op.Net>
Subject: EC-10X
Dear Rob, I have had the EC-10X for almost one year. It is close to the most recent updated version in terms of internal functions. Newer, updated, regional and continental cartridges are available for my unit, but who need it. It is not slow to start up and is not slow to update. The large screen gives an incredible amount of information. In fact, I've actually reduced the this info (you can control what surface data is displayed) so that I get what I need and no more. Like all LCD screen, you have to twist and turn in certain high light level situations. But you easily adapt. I have never used any other GPS or Loran nav. systems before, but I found this easy to learn. Most functions are intuitive after reading the Quick-Start directions. THE ONLY PROBLEM WITH THIS UNIT IS THAT YOU MUST NOT KEEP YOUR EYES IN THE COCKPIT. Sometimes there is so much available info. or interesting data that you continue to look at the screen instead of outside of your windscreen. For $l700 I can find my way anywhere. This is no easy feat in the Northeast Corridor in the fog and rain and smog. But I still always carry current charts so I won't loose my skills. Sorry to tal;k so much but this was the first opportunity I've had to thank Magellan. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen)
Subject: Re: R-V6a Average Horsepower Transfer Rate
Bill, you wrote: > > Here's the calculation: > >Total Kinetic Energy = 1/2 the mass times the velocity squared > > = 1/2 m v^2 > >Weight = 1430 pounds, mass = 1430/32.2 slugs= 44.4 slugs > >Velocity at 70mph = 103 ft/s > >Total Kinetic Energy = 44.4 * 103 *103 = 4.71 E 05 ft-lb It looks like you forgot to multiply by 1/2 in the formula of KE = (1/2) mv^2 Peter n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com _____________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM>
Subject: Re: GPS SELECTIVE AVAILABILITY)
Wasn't SA turned off during the Gulf War? I thought they turned it off because they couldn't get enough Mil Spec GPS units and had to use civilian units instead. So in wartime, they gave the enemy access to more accurate GPS signals. Frankly, I think current GPS accuracy with SA on would have been accurate enough for SCUD or Plane Bomb tactics. But this has little to do with RVs. I've gone from the "Saving up to buy a Garage to build it in" stage to the "Trying to find the right garage to build it in" stage. If I'm lucky, I'll have a place to move into in August. Then comes the "Saving up enough money to buy tools and the tail kit." stage. Let's see if I can win the prize for first new flying RV of the New Millenium. :-) -- "Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!" -- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs "Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RFlunker(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 05, 1996
Subject: Ormdorff Addr
Sorry to do this on th list, but I want to contact the Ormdorff's. George, could you send me your email addr? RFLUNKER(at)AOL.COM. Dick Flunker, working on wings RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: Boone IA Fly In ???
Hi Folks, Hope this is okay material for the group. If anyone in the Chicago area is going to the Boone IA fly-in on Sat June 8 and would like company who will pay for half the gas, please let me know. Bill Costello bcos(at)ix.netcom.com 312-445-1246 -- Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246 Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen)
Subject: Re: Pulled Rivets
You wrote: > > >Something has been bugging me for quite some time, and it just occurred to me >to see if any of you have a solution. > >When I pull blind rivets, I always end up with a sharp edge on them just >off center. Most of the rivet looks good, but I consistently get this one >sharp edge. This is with all the pulled rivets that ship with the empennage. > >Does anyone else get this same thing? Is it a technique problem? Is my >inexpensive puller just too inexpensive? Or is this standard? > >Does anyone know how to get rid of it? I tried using the deburring tool, but >because the sharp edge is raised while the rest of the center is inset like >it appears it should be, the debur tool doesn't seem to work very well. > >-Joe > Joe, I get the same sharp edge and I have three different pop rivet tools and they all do it. I am fortunte enough to have found a couple of tiny curved files at Boeing surplus which seem to be made for very fine filing of rivet heads. Peter B. Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com ______________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: rmdorff Addr
---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: INTERNET:RFlunker(at)aol.com, INTERNET:RFlunker(at)aol.com DATE: 6/5/96 8:20 PM RE: RV-List: Ormdorff Addr Sorry to do this on th list, but I want to contact the Ormdorff's. Dick Flunker, working on wings Dick . . . try orndorffg(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: Oil Temp
>Fellow builders, >I'm looking at engine guages for thr RV6 made by Auto Meter. They are >nice quality "competition" guages, but the oil temp guage scale only >goes from 60 to 250 degrees f. The Ispro guages from Van's goes from >160 to 320 degrees f. Is 250 too low for aircraft engines? I guess I've >never really paid attention to the readings when flying, only the color >markings on the guage. I'd like to install a nice matched set of >guages. Any comments? >Thanks >Ed Cole RV6A #24430 >ecole(at)ix.netcom.com > > FWIW, my RV seldom reaches much more than the bottom of the Green. I've blocked off about 2/3 of the oil cooler but still can not reach the green when the OAT is below 50 degrees. John Ammeter ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com Seattle WA, USA RV-6 N16JA Flying 5 years ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: Fred Hiatt <hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Pulled Rivets
Larson, Joe (Joe Larson) wrote: > > Something has been bugging me for quite some time, and it just occurred to me > to see if any of you have a solution. > > When I pull blind rivets, I always end up with a sharp edge on them just > off center. Most of the rivet looks good, but I consistently get this one > sharp edge. This is with all the pulled rivets that ship with the empennage. > > Does anyone else get this same thing? Is it a technique problem? Is my > inexpensive puller just too inexpensive? Or is this standard? > > Does anyone know how to get rid of it? I tried using the deburring tool, but > because the sharp edge is raised while the rest of the center is inset like > it appears it should be, the debur tool doesn't seem to work very well. > > -Joe > > -- > Joe Larson Joe, try to be sure that your buckin bar face is perpendicular to the rivet shaft, that the bar does not slip during bucking and that the rivet gun is flat on the metal. Fred ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DerFlieger(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 05, 1996
Subject: Re: Pulled Rivets
nmb.norwest.com!Joseph.P.Larson(at)matronics.com (Larson, Joe) writes: >When I pull blind rivets, I always end up with a sharp edge on them just >off center. Most of the rivet looks good, but I consistently get this one >sharp edge. This is with all the pulled rivets that ship with the empennage. > > Joe, Yes, this is a problem, especially if you intend to fill the hole with slurry. What I find works is to pull the mandrel slowly in two or three pulls, saving the final "break-off" pull to be a quick, strong one. In "most" cases the mandrel will break below the top of the head. Seems to work for me. You can make them look just like hard rivets by filling with a slurry of polyester resin and microballons. I guess the plastic builders call it micro. Daub the heads with a Q-tip and MEK , then use a toothpick to apply the slurry deep into the head. Sand later when you finish the surface. You will have to experiment to get the "right" consistency slurry. Jim Stugart ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 06, 1996
Subject: Re: Top fwd fuse skin
I waited until I had to install my cowl. I had all of my radios and instruments hooked up, the engine installed and hooked up and all controls installed. It made those jobs an order of magnitude easier IMHO. Jim Cone jamescone(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen )
Subject: RV3 wing mods
Have any of you RV3 owners/builders received the plans for the RV3 wing (main spar) modifications? Who else, other than Cheryl and me are currently building an RV3? Finn (putting fuselage tank together). finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 05, 1996
From: Frank Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com>
Subject: Re: Dimpling
chester razer wrote: Has anyone dimpled this skin for > #3 rivet and what kind of results have you obtained after > riveting. > > Also, what about countersinking the floor stiffners an extra > amount (?) to accept the dimple. > > chet razer: fitting side skins That is how I did mine with no problem. .040 skin will dimple easily with the Avery bench dimpler C frame. Frank Smidler ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 1996
From: Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Vertical Stab and Rudder together
Rudy, there are 'friends' and then there is 'family' (RV that is). One question........ how come you stopped at 'a couple of hundred'? Royce Craven Sealing the 2nd (and last!!!) tank Melbourne OZ >> Larry Groom said: >> I finished the rudder last week and decided to bolt it to the Vertical Stab >> last night. It fit pretty good although the top bracket of the stab was a bit >> tight and I had to pry the bracket apart a bit to get the bearing to fit. The >> rudder looked good on the stab and even moved back and forth ok! >> ....... > >I finished my rudder a couple weeks ago. I set the HS on my kitchen table, >propped up the VS & rudder, and moved the rudder back an forth at least >a couple hundred times. After I had been doing this for several minutes, >my friends all decided I was nuts, but I figured you guys would understand. >:^) > > > >-- >Rudy Albachten rudy.albachten(at)amd.com >Advanced Micro Devices 512/602-5118 >Austin Texas > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 06, 1996
Subject: Re: Top fwd fuse skin
I didn't rivet the top front skin on until ALL the electronics were installed and tested. Made life a LOT easier... One note when you do rivet tit down: This is an area that should be 100% leakproof! That means the firewall, sides and especially the canopy edge (for the tilt-up canopy). Also, be sure that the drip edge is waterproof. I used proseal in these areas, using up the leftovers form gas tank construction. Worked great..... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV 700+ Hrs in 2.5 Years (Installing Optional Electric Flaps) wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 06, 1996
Subject: Re: Electric Flap Installation
>Fred; This method worked great for me, it even makes it easier to pull pins >and adjust the seat. I've had it on for about 2 years and have found no >problems. >I didn't understand your 'canopy lock ' problem with installing the elec. >flaps. Mine is a 6 with tilt up, and there was no prob. at all with the >canopy lock, had absolutely no bearing with the elec. flap installation, >must be the diff. between 6 and 6A. >John D > > If installed per the plans in the Electric Flap Option kit I received, the bracket holding the motor( ie, the brracket between the floor and F605. Can't remember the designator, but call it FP1 here) would hit the cross member for the canopy latch mechanism. I solved this problem by installing a flat piece of .062 T6 material to the underside of the F605 cross member, effectively moving the top of FP1 toward the rear an inch or so. The resultant angle change of this piece did not cause any other problems. Thanks to previous listing on this problem, I was able to identify the problem early, and avoid an "Aw Sh*T" reaction..... Thanks everyone... The RVlist WORKS.... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 1996
From: Tim Lewis <lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil>
Subject: Air Compressor deal, Drill press advice needed
I found a pretty good deal at Sams (the Wal Mart warehouse), and I've noticed that Sams often stocks the same "deals" in several locations. Here in San Antonio they have a Coleman 4.5 hp, 25 gal air compressor/tank, 9cfm @ 40 psi, 7.2 cfm @ 90 psi, w/ built in regulator for $199. It's oil free, direct drive type. I'm looking for advice on a drill press: 1. 14" bench mount, 210-3700rpm, 3/4 hp from Harbor Freight, $200 (has a "free oiler", whatever that is) 2. 13" floor mount, 195-3630rmp, 3/4 hp from Harbo Freight, $230 ("dry table, no oiler needed" whatever that means) 3. 15" bench mount, 250-3100 rpm, 1 hp from Sears, $300 I'm inclined to go with the $200 unit from Harbor Freight. What's an oiler? Any advice from the group on drill presses? Tim Lewis Buying tools, waitin' fer the kit ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 1996
From: Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Jon Johansen
Jon is off again, departing June. He is going to Oshkosh the opposite way. Perhaps his going to utilize the earths rotation for that extra bit of fuel economy. Royce Craven roycec(at)ozemail.com.au ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder Pedal Placement
At 11:33 PM 6/5/96 GMT, you wrote: >I am seeking inputs on where to place my rudder pedals. I need to have >maximum leg room. I called vans and they recommended I find a RV6 and >measure how much travel the pedals actually need without hitting the >firewall with full rudder and brakes applied. I do not have access to a RV >to measure. I would appreciate any help. Thanks in advance. > >John Henley, RV6 John, Suspended or floor mounted rudder pedals? Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Top fwd fuse skin
>A lot of people have mentioned the wisdom of leaving the top forward fuse >skin off (6A) until the last possible moment for ease of installing >everything underneath. My question is: how long can you wait? > >I've just mounted my engine (oooh, ahhh) and I still have most of the weight >supported by the hoist. I'm concerned that putting all of the weight on the >nosewheel might not be good for the fwd fuse without the top skin on. Am I >just being paranoid? I'd like to wait until I've plumbed and wired the >engine before I rivet the skin on. Has anyone done this? > >Thanks, >Ed Bundy >ebundy2620(at)aol.com Ed, I read the other posts concerning the above and sometimes a little paranoia is OK. Your method can't hurt anything and might help. Just because you can force a cleco into a hole doesn't mean that the skin/structure is 100 % lined up. In fact, often, I will line up holes my placing rivets in them and then inserting some clecos to hold everything together. I agree that it is best to leave this skin off until the last possible moment. I looked at a RV-6 the other day and the builder was going to save riveting this skin until the very last moment, like, even after the instrument panel was installed. I pointed out that he probably wouldn't like trying to rivet around his radio stack, gyros, wiring, plumbing, canopy release mechanism, etc. Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Oil Temp
>FWIW, my RV seldom reaches much more than the bottom of the Green. I've >blocked off about 2/3 of the oil cooler but still can not reach the green >when the OAT is below 50 degrees. > >John Ammeter >ammeterj(at)ammeterj.seanet.com >Seattle WA, USA >RV-6 N16JA >Flying 5 years John, It doesn't get colder than 50 degrees where you live, does it? Here in Nebraska I have trouble getting oil temps up even with the cooler 100% blocked. At 10 degrees, the oil temp only goes to 130 degrees, not nearly warm enough. I put a cockpit controllable door over my horizontally mounted oil cooler (left front baffle). I used a button lock control to operate the door. It works very well and I'm able to keep my oil temp in the 180-190 degree range unless it gets terribly cold. I started out with duct tape but several times I got to altitude and it was warmer than at the surface and the oil temps headed toward the red, so I had to land and peel tape off. The hinged door is a little more elegant, too. I did have one problem. I bent an angle out of .040" (with a generous radius) to act as the control arm for the cable and riveted it to the oil cooler door. After about 30 hours, the angle cracked and I no longer had control. I had thought about this and figured that the incomming air would open the door. Wrong. The door went closed and stayed there. I made a new arm out of .063 angle and also riveted another tab on the door to which I attached a spring to pull the door open if the cable angle should ever break again. I don't think the .063" angle will break, but you never know. Bob Skinner RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 1996
From: "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: EC-10X
>Dear Rob, I have had the EC-10X for almost one year...It is not slow to start up and is not slow to update. Louis, thanks for the detailed response. The information I received was posted on rec.aviation.homebuilt. I found this unit for $1200 WITH gps. Such a deal, but since I am still waiting for Van's to ready my APRIL Sun'n'Fun kit order, it's just a bit too soon to start collecting avionics. > THE ONLY PROBLEM >WITH THIS UNIT IS THAT YOU MUST NOT KEEP YOUR EYES IN THE COCKPIT. I took all my private/IFR training in a fully equipped 172. My eyes spent way too much time in the cockpit looking at displays and twisting knobs. Recently I took some tailwheel training in a Citabria, no gyros at all. Amazingly, in short order I found myself looking inside only for engine instrument/altimeter scans. Much more fun! >For $l700 I can >find my way anywhere. This is no easy feat in the Northeast Corridor in the >fog and rain and smog. I can relate...the Los Angeles basin is my home. Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com) Rancho Santa Margarita, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 1996
From: Bill Baines <bill(at)sfu.ca> (by way of Bill Baines <bill(at)sfu.ca>)
Subject: Re: Oil Temp
[...] >I'd like to install a nice matched set of >guages. Any comments? >Thanks >Ed Cole RV6A #24430 >ecole(at)ix.netcom.com > > Hi Ed, Take a look at Mitchell Guages. They are aimed primarily at the homebuilt market, but they do have some PMA approved products and some gauges are being used in production aircraft. Prices are quite reasonable from what I have seen. They have a complete line of round guages mostly 2.25" (including a 2.25" mechanical tachometer that I have purchased for my -4). They also have a complete line of modular 1.5" x 1.5" guages that they build up into clusters. Most (except tachometers I think) are internally lighted. For my -4, I have chosen a 2.25" mechanical tach, a 2.25" manifold pressure, a 2.25" Insight 602 scanner (CHT, EGT), and a 3"W x 4.5"H cluster that contains Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, Amp, Fuel Press, LH Fuel Qty, RH Fuel Qty. The whole package uses very little panel space, most are internally lighted -- I've had several favourable comments. Bill... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
Date: Jun 06, 1996
Subject: Re: Top fwd fuse skin
> I didn't rivet the top front skin on until ALL the electronics were >installed and tested. Made life a LOT easier... > > One note when you do rivet tit down: This is an area that should be 100% >leakproof! That means the firewall, sides and especially the canopy edge (for >the tilt-up canopy). Also, be sure that the drip edge is waterproof. > I used proseal in these areas, using up the leftovers form gas tank >construction. Worked great..... > >Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV 700+ Hrs in 2.5 Years >(Installing Optional Electric Flaps) >wstucklen(at)aol.com > Fred, Did you use the proseal between the skins or as a fillet at the joint after riveting. I remember some talk a month or so ago about the possibility of weaking joints if used between the skins. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- Ross Mickey Phone: 541-342-1892 2300 Oakmont Way #205 Fax: 541-342-5492 Eugene, Oregon 97401 email: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Top fwd fuse skin
Date: Jun 06, 1996
One comment (this applies to RV3/4/6's) on the top fuselage skin. You do need to make sure this skin is either installed with cleco's or a few screws (on RV4) when you work on installing your cowl and maybe even the canopy. On my RV4, the upper part of the firewall will flex forward and back quite a bit without this fop fus. skin on. This could lead to problems if you attempt to install the cowl and later find that the parts don't fit when you put it all together. > >A lot of people have mentioned the wisdom of leaving the top forward fuse > >skin off (6A) until the last possible moment for ease of installing > >everything underneath. My question is: how long can you wait? > > > >I've just mounted my engine (oooh, ahhh) and I still have most of the weight > >supported by the hoist. I'm concerned that putting all of the weight on the > >nosewheel might not be good for the fwd fuse without the top skin on. Am I > >just being paranoid? I'd like to wait until I've plumbed and wired the > >engine before I rivet the skin on. Has anyone done this? > > > >Thanks, > >Ed Bundy > >ebundy2620(at)aol.com > Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 1996
From: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com (Doug Weiler)
Subject: Boone Fly-in
Fellow Listers: Regarding the RV fly-in this Sat in Boone, IA. The MN wing is planning a formation flight leaving Lake Elmo, MN at 0830. We have about 5 RV's lined up. I have 2 seats available in my 180 for anyone in the Twin Cities area who would like to come. Give me a call. Doug -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= = Doug Weiler, pres. MN Wing, Van's AirForce, RV-4 in progress, N722DW = 347 Krattley Lane = Hudson, WI 54016 = 715-386-1239 = email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 1996
From: "Marian K. Rendall or Scott Sawby" <mkr(at)netw.com>
Subject: Cowling attach hinges
There was some discussion here yesterday about the attachement of hinges to the F601b. I'm at this point, and now am totally confused. Drawing 31 shows a cross section of this area, section E - E'. A .032" shim is depicted. This was discussed yesterday regarding the interference of flutes in the 601B if it is fluted. My question is why is this shim necessary. The manual says the cowling is .080 to .090". The F601B is .060 and the skin is .032", so that gives you your .090". It looks to me like this cross section would be appropriate for the bottom of the firewall where you have a .020 firewall flange and a .040 skin, so you need a spacer of about .032 to bring it up to the .090". Could it be that the cowling is actually 1/8"? All of this would make more sense if that was the case. Scott Sawby RV 6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 1996
From: "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Air Compressor deal, Drill press advice needed
> >I'm looking for advice on a drill press: > >1. 14" bench mount, 210-3700rpm, 3/4 hp from Harbor Freight, $200 > (has a "free oiler", whatever that is) >2. 13" floor mount, 195-3630rmp, 3/4 hp from Harbo Freight, $230 > ("dry table, no oiler needed" whatever that means) >3. 15" bench mount, 250-3100 rpm, 1 hp from Sears, $300 > >I'm inclined to go with the $200 unit from Harbor Freight. What's an >oiler? Any advice from the group on drill presses? > >Tim Lewis >Buying tools, waitin' fer the kit > > I just bought the H.F. 16" floor mount (saves lots of bench space). Regular price $279...bought on sale for $199 thru 5/27. Maybe you can still convince the store manager to give you the same deal . Its of okay quality, nothing like good machine shop equipment...but entirely adequate for our use. The "oiler" is simply a plastic reservoir with a drip tube you can direct towards your work. I left mine off. About the compressor deal...be aware direct-drive oiless compressors are VERY loud. Belt drive is much quieter but more expensive. Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com) Rancho Santa Margarita, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 1996
From: "Marian K. Rendall or Scott Sawby" <mkr(at)netw.com>
Subject: Cowling attach hinges
In reference to my previous posting on this subject, I see another possibility that isn't all that unlikely. Could it be that the firewall was at one time all one piece, i. e. no 601B? The firewall side flanges would then be .020", requiring the shim. Then when the 601B was added the shims were no longer necessary, but the drawing was never updated? Scott Sawby RV 6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 1996
From: csanchez(at)BayNetworks.com (Cheryl Sanchez)
Subject: Re: RV3 wing mods
> >Have any of you RV3 owners/builders received the plans for the RV3 wing >(main spar) modifications? > >Who else, other than Cheryl and me are currently building an RV3? > >Finn (putting fuselage tank together). > >finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com > All I have received so far is a letter that generally describes the situation. Unfortunately, my spars for the -3 are complete. Fortunately, I have not started to assemble the wing yet. Rear spars ready, ribs ready and fitted. But my -3 is on hold until I finish the -6A project I took over last year. Cheryl Sanchez csanchez(at)world.std.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael C. Gamble" <mgamble(at)chiba.netxn.com>
Subject: GPS SELECTIVE AVAILABILITY
Date: Jun 06, 1996
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB53A0.802E2080 Well here goes my $0.02 worth also. I did not want to respond to this = thread because I did not want to seem like some radical, which I don't = believe I am. I can think of two very good examples of major air = acidents that were based on poor navigational ability or equipment. Ron = Browns accident over in Bosinia, and the air liner accident down in = Columbia. Now I do not know if a good, more accurate GPS could of done = anything to prevent either one of those accidents.. But I suspect they = may have been preventable. Our air trafic system is getting on 25 years = old and is crumbling fast. I belive in protecting the US and it's = intrests, but I believe real people are being hurt, not some possible, = maybe military installation somewhere. I can not believe that what ever = technology that is being used in military aplications of GPS, can not be = reversed engineered by a foriegn power if they want to. Bottom line, the = FAA, Pentagon, Senate and White house need to get on with it. Mick ---------- From: Charles H Fink[SMTP:envc.sandia.gov!CHFINK(at)matronics.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 1996 4:02 PM Subject: RV-List: GPS SELECTIVE AVAILABILITY Here is my $0.02 on GPS selective availability. Mike Kukulski's comments were very well stated and he addressed the key issue that is denying a very inexpensive targeting system to the nut cases out there. Look at the SCUD that was used in the Gulf War. Its accuracy could be improved by several orders of magnitude with a $200.00 GPS and $1000.00 interface to the guidance system. Also any aircraft with an GPS and 3 axis autopilot system could be loaded with explosives and hit any target in the world with more destructive capability than the truck in Oklahoma City. But the civilian benefits extend well beyond aviation and the DOD is working to provide the most accuracy possible while maintaining reasonable security. Tests are currently being conducted at White Sands, New Mexico on a system that provides localized interference with the signal rather than altering the satellite signals. If this proves feasible then *sensitive* areas could be protected while allowing the system to be used for legitimate purposes. How long will this take? Your guess is as good as mine. To answer Mike's question, yes, even hand held GPS receivers can provide accurate enough steering displays to effectively utilize the improved signal accuracy. Charles Fink, chfink(at)envc.sandia.gov, RV-6 flying but this working for a living sure does interfere with the flying ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB53A0.802E2080 eJ8+IjETAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ACQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAEkAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20AU01UUABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20A AAAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABYAAABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20A AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAYAAAAJ3J2LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbScAAgEL MAEAAAAbAAAAU01UUDpSVi1MSVNUQE1BVFJPTklDUy5DT00AAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYP AQAAAAQAAAAAAAADNDcBCIAHABgAAABJUE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90ZQAxCAEEgAEAKAAA AFJFOiBSVi1MaXN0OiBHUFMgU0VMRUNUSVZFIEFWQUlMQUJJTElUWQAFCwEFgAMADgAAAMwHBgAG AAsAGQAIAAQADwEBIIADAA4AAADMBwYABgALABIAMwAEADMBAQmAAQAhAAAAQThBMDk0Qzg3QkJG Q0YxMUI3NUEzNEJDRkRDMDA0MUYAcQcBA5AGAIwJAAASAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAA AAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAYNrtfdVTuwEeAHAAAQAAACgAAABSRTogUlYtTGlzdDogR1BTIFNFTEVD VElWRSBBVkFJTEFCSUxJVFkAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAbtT1X3MyJSgqb97Ec+3WjS8/cAEHwAAHgAe DAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABgAAABtZ2FtYmxlQGNoaWJhLm5ldHhuLmNvbQADAAYQ yR2A1QMABxAQCAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAV0VMTEhFUkVHT0VTTVkkMDAyV09SVEhBTFNPSURJRE5P VFdBTlRUT1JFU1BPTkRUT1RISVNUSFJFQURCRUNBVVNFSURJRE5PVFdBTlRUT1NFRU1MSUtFU09N RVJBRElDQUwsVwAAAAACAQkQAQAAAAAIAAD8BwAA+wwAAExaRnXwdvdd/wAKAQ8CFQKoBesCgwBQ AvIJAgBjaArAc2V0MjcGAAbDAoMyA8UCAHByQnER4nN0ZW0CgzN3AuQHEwKAfQqACM8J2TvxFg8y NTUCgAqBDbELYOBuZzEwMxRQCwoUUYUL8mMAQCBXZWwDIEJoBJBlIGdvB5FtQHkgJDAuMBHgdwkV sWggB0Bzby4gAEkgZGlkIG5vjQVAdwBwBUB0byAWEPxzcAIgHXAeIRygBAAe8ZUWEGEdcGIFkGF1 EbAPHS8eMBGwE+AgbGlrXxtwHPAHgB5AH5BpH+BsviwcYB8QEXAgMgIgJwVAkx/AIbBldiAiYW0d Egcf4AOgHwFuayBvZuseEBxwICQQchvwG5AEcPggZXgkYAtQB5ElYQDAbmoFsQtwJ3FjHWAJ8HTN HzJhHbEbUmJhEbAdcA0CICAegAWxbmF2abpnKIBpAiAHQBzAYgMQjGl0G/AFsWVxdQUgXweAAjAd EAgAA6BCA2B33wYxANAn5CVQJdEgC4AsQPZvAJADAGEiwABwHrEbQPsngyGwbi1xLMcjYCyALZLf CFAKQAbQBzAdEE4scCMz/R2Dax2QB+AGkBzAJhMiwD8EYBthLMEIcCiAG3BHUPMF8AWgdWwpQSVw I2EuwfRueSUCZx4SE1AkAR3xvmUq8BtBKVEbcCViaC3gyzMzJ/QuHRBCdQVAIED6cyAAcAWQHgEb QBvwAMD/G/ARgCQRH8AJ8DW2AaAmwK0dEE8IcCeDdCJQZiKA7yFQE7MtkAQgZxHAKkA1YfMpYRhA IHkfgBGgJVA0Ub8uYh8hBQAwwS8hNXBmKRD/K+EgQCPCJBEtoRNQHaA44Zs1Uy6xVQXwPjN0JwQg 3wuAO6AHkCgwIsBiOFMjxvcfcQMgONBvJrEcwCjSNkD1NWFoCHB0IsAdkiIDHoD9BBBpOtEy4TmA H8Ab0CrS/wrAG/ALgBPAB0ALYCpCIfP/IuAbUSSGHZIjxihkKHIkAds7gQWQaB2QFaBnG/AoY78f IUSUIAE+UQOgRudhC1D/IoEqQibjM+EiwEkYHkEl0fspIgnwZy8xG1EfoU2BPzD7BbAIkGcpciix MkI5Ix3VfzghHaAeICGSL0AiwC6iRrRBQSLAUDqSG5BuIsDvBmAp4DOxLmJXHxAzsTcw/yACUGEe szyxKVID8ByhKvDWLgqFCoVNIoBrV/wK9BEhsDE4MALRaS0xPDQ0DfAM0FrzC1kxNvMKoEB0IC1d FwqHW8sMMPVclkYDYTpeHlyWDIIwgBsRgSbCSFQQJSFbU00IVFA6CfB2Yy5zBy5hMPEbkHYhQ0hG 8ElOS0AAwDugAiAigHM4AAWgbV1dv17NVRF0l1//YQsa8GQvQHNkOYBJIsBKdTTRMDUiwDFAOTk2 IDQ6HEFQZk1lb17NVG9nr2ELcnx2LSGwE8BkfGuPZn51HGJqOOFtr2ELUlYtDkxvwXNAM+JTRUxF IENUSVZFFLBWQRBJTEFCdsBJVFlzWR9aIzM2W5caRVyWSP8bUh8hG+cpYTPiEbAmwECx/yQRKfAL cAtgKsQdEFjQIdARCoVLdWs0QHNraf9B4WUhK7IEICizJdMosBsRv0eRE9A+FBtACoUfkGQeUf8p Ii6iIdBHUQQQClBLpygB3nk1UjKAJdMvMXg40ACB/yQQCoVHITyxNVI8FR7TVmF/OFEf4BGwJuE4 UTZiOvFMHyYwJUAogS6hCoVTQ1XeRChVKRBMhy6iRzRAJXDeVwrAHREoMTNUYxvwNCT/H8AKhQdw QGEkEFCzEbAl0b8qgQWwBIEm5VFwKvB1DbD7V2QygCQB0BwhCnYz4i5iviQZMJCDQgIEkD9AY0nx 7YakZyuAaeBuksE8FB0Q/kEc4YEGNRAnggUAO8AdsdeQA3t0LmIzHMB4HyEf8P0eIHADEEViPCQ0 IwqFRrH/FaAfkCkxV3OEgRWghNIsof+AsirwlROFhIqWHHE0UVdy/wqFMwMNsBPAPrB8FB/gCrA/ KsUoYYq0ngIlQC2hT2v/C2A3MADAMIB9Alf8OEIuov8n4CoAIbADkR/AL0A70Cgx3yZwE9AeoX/j H8B5HpIp8edH5C5lCoVET4mgHyEccf9+YDVmLVAn8S6TBGATwIvo/0XmItImwJ0WC3EBkC4BNWF/ H3Ec8CngqXIRsDNxfQNU30JSREMzcRYQAjBsG/BEk/8KhQWgHqCeIYByBUBVxAYR9mRCgQfCTSZw IoAeMKVSf4YXKHEKhaeFBCAVoCKRaf56TLOSchtRk7JXcy6iAJC/UXAqgTORNnKfQoEGbJJx/0DW Y2AT0BsQVeK01DgAIDD/NwIfIY2TBCCzwCkQqWMuod215ioRsACBfCIqREKKIf+MhkBWmaKpwhzB FaAD8EDk/wqFhihGsUyTUSEhoFFguuG/ZIFFwQhwReEHkB0QSDFBvxWgNWED8BsQhRYfE2Eh0Pg/ IFkIYZNRgbE8cooh/yYjiiFG4C9AV+1tgC5RA+D/LXF9UkHhK3BCUSpRIsA9kP9CgTXiOaGAszRR M+EKhRYQ/5LAP/E9wSTCp4YzVwnwCGD+ZxywE8G2lB1QHnALYBOw/x4RCoUNwXwErZE4UCrRszD/ LpONd7TVi/ZX7WHWYnJOwfZoO9AlMEBjHSLAdSFq8P8Y4IOjQrIfAgqFpta/kjKA/z/hheMIcJ2x G6Kzd7Q41BRfd194b3l8CoUVMQDcoAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcwgLX8nNRTuwFAAAgwgLX8 nNRTuwEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAPE3 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB53A0.802E2080-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BrabstonD(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 06, 1996
Subject: RV Fly In in Alabama
I understand there is an RV fly in someplace in Alabama each year. That is all the information I have. Can't find it scheduled anyplace. Does anyone know when or where this might take place? Doug Brabston ________________________________________________________________________________
From: K8DO(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 06, 1996
Subject: Re: GPS SELECTIVE AVAILABILITY
Ummmm.... Guys... let us think about the claim that higher accuracy gps systems threaten the security of the USA.... any entity with the capability of firing a missile, or other flying machine, into the USA from outside of the continental boundaries is not going spend that amount of money, and take the inevitable reprisal, just to deliver a few hundred to a few thousand pounds of conventional explosives... the destruction diameter of a small fission warhead is measured in miles... for a fusion warhead it is tens of miles... a difference of several hundred feet versus 30 feet, or so, in the guidance system accuracy is immaterial with nukes... so, an extracontinental or intercontinental attack performed using gps guidance, will have a nuclear warhead on the nose... thus, the arguement of increased gps accuracy causing an increased threat here is moot... for conventional explosives, a few hundred foot difference can make the outcome change from "target destroyed", to "distinctly hard on the windows in the neighborhood"... so, the military proponents of a degraded gps systems have an arguing point regarding conventional explosives launched from relatively close range... this brings us to terrorists, who are the likely groups to use conventional explosives launched or flown in some way to a target, from inside the country... to this date, acts of terrorism worldwide, involving the guidance and delivery of explosives, have been delivered by truck and Mark I eyeballs - or by shoulder held, anti tank weapons and the same eyeballs - or by tube fired, mortar shells - or by thrown hand grenades - or by booby trapped cars - or by packaged explosives left in or secreted about buildings, trash cans - and on, and on, etc... not a single gps unit, handheld or otherwise, has ever been implicated or used in such terrorist acts... The White House, Hoover Dam, Pentagon, et. al., MAY have increased risk of a more accurate delivery of some kind of missile, given a fully functional gps signal... that is the price we pay to live in a free society... the DoD can degrade or turn off the gps system in seconds should a threat develop... until terrorist attacks using gps guidance become the lead story on the nightly news, I say we should lobby congress to withold the pentagon's liquor appropriation until they turn the accuracy up... it seems they have forgotten who is paying the bill... Denny .... Now, back to important things.... How many 5 star generals does it take to build an RV8? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Maynard, Bryon" <maynardb(at)snowmass.ksc.nasa.gov>
Subject: F-625 Rib
Date: Jun 06, 1996
O.K. I have been following the fuselage construction manual found on Hovan's page. So far everything has been going great. Even the part where he stated that the F625 rib is too wide for the F-606 bulkhead. I would like to here what alternatives others came up with to remedy the problem. The F-626 and F-627 Ribs were 1/4 inch to long. I went a head and cut the flanges off and replaced them with some 3/4 X 3/4 .063 angle. Works great. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 1996
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: User Fees, Trust Fund
All: I just finished my letter to my gummint representative. I am presenting it here in the hopes that it will inspire others to write their letters. Feel free to plagarize at will. Make yourself heard. We need to send a clear message so they will stop trying to push this user fee crap on us once and for all. The text original AOPA legislative alert follows the letter. Randall Henderson randall(at)edt.com ---- June 6, 1996 The Honorable Mark O. Hatfield U.S. Senate Washington, DC 20510 Senator Hatfield: I am writing to urge you to do all you can to make sure that the tax on airline tickets, which expired on January 1, is reinstated as soon as possible. I am very concerned that if this does not happen soon, the Aviation Trust Fund, which General Aviation users have been dutifully paying into through fuel taxes for many years, will go bankrupt, and the factions that want to impose direct user fees on general aviation will win. Then we will be saddled with a hugely burdensome and inefficient user fee scheme after all. General Aviation organizations, as well as individual pilots and aircraft owners, are virtually unanimous in their opposition to user fees. Proponents of user fees argue that General Aviation users are not paying their fair share for the facilities they use. I strongly disagree. The primary reason the FAA/ATC system is as complex as it is is because of the air carriers, and the primary reason GA aircraft USE the system is so that they won't be in conflict with said air carriers' operations. It is only just that the air carriers should bear the major burden for the FAA and ATC system in the first place. The bankruptcy of the Aviation Trust Fund would be a huge tragedy. I find it ironic that the word "Trust" is in the name, as we as pilots and aircraft owners have "trusted" for a long time that the money we pay will be used wisely. But now, suddenly, it is being drained for no good reason, and I fear that if it runs out it will be used against us in an effort to impose a new, additional, bureaucracy-heavy fee structure on General Aviation. I do not believe I am exaggerating when I say if that occurs, it is almost certain to kill the General Aviation industry, and then user fees won't do any good, since there won't be anyone there to pay them. Sincerely, Randall Henderson ---- ------------- Begin Included Message ------------- AOPA Legislative Action 500 E Street SW, Suite 290 Washington, DC 20024 Dear Randall W. Henderson: Our war against user fees has reached a pivotal battle. AOPA Legislative Action urgently needs your help to win it! You may have heard that the tax on airline tickets, which provides most of the FAA's funding through the Aviation Trust Fund, expired on January 1. Along with fuel taxes general aviation pays, and taxes on cargo and other fuels, the ticket tax was the source of 70 percent of FAA's funding. For a while, the surplus in the trust fund is keeping FAA running, but the balance will run out by the end of the year. The ticket tax was caught in the same fight over the federal budget that shut the federal government down several times and caused Congress to finish the 1996 budget seven months late. But that fight is over now. Why hasn't congress reinstated the tax? Insiders in Washington know why. Certain key members of Congress want to choke the FAA so that Congress will impose USER FEES for air traffic control and other services. We all know that Congress doesn't do much until there's a chrisis. Look at the accident in Cheyenne, Wyoming last month involving Jessica Dubroff. Younger and younger children have been involved in record-setting attempts for a decade now, but Congress only reacted after disaster struck. And I'm afraid the same thing could happen to the Aviation Trust Fund -- with terrible results. Unless we stir them to action, we fear Congress will let the Trust Fund go to the verge of bankruptcy. Then legislators will wake up in October - right before an election - and realize they must do something, ANYTHING, to ensure that the safety of the traveling public isn't compromised by a lack of funding. And in the climate of chrisis, politicians will stamped toward any idea to fund aviation. And the quickest and easiest way to do it will be user fees -- _that_ _you_ _will_ _have_ _to_ _pay_. It won't matter that user fees would devastate general aviation, cost too much to collect, terribly disrupt the aviation industry, and hand the FAA a blank check to spend all it wants. All our arguments against user fees, which have been quite successful in holding them back so far, will be swept away in the mad rush to DO SOMETHING. By ignoring the expired ticket tax and holding the Aviation Trust Fund hostage, user fee proponents are staging a last-ditch attempt to force a discredited idea down the throats of aviation users. These people are willing to let the trust fund go bankrupt just to push their agenda. As a pilot and a taxpayer, you have the right to tell your representatives in Congress how important it is to reinstate the excise taxes that feed the Trust Fund now. We need to preserve the existing system of taxes, not bankrupt the airway system just to impose a draconian user fee scheme. This is the message Congress needs to hear: Save the Aviation Trust Fund from Bankruptcy. Restore the ticket tax before the FAA runs out of money! And no new user fees! Anyone who cares very much about the future of general aviation, I know I can depend on you to speak up. It's even more important that you act today, because your senator, Mark O. Hatfield, is Chairman of the Senate Transportation Appropriations Subcommittee. Please contact Senator Hatfield today and urge him to act to save the Trust Fund. You can write to him at: The Honorable Mark O. Hatfield U.S. Senate Washington, DC 20510. (Or whoever your senator(s) is/are if you do not live in Oregon) Thank you for your help. To say that the future of general aviation depends on you now is no exaggeration. Sincerely, Phil Boyer President AOPA Leglislative Action =========================================================================== You can find more information about the issue of user fees and the Trust Fund on the web at http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/aopala.htm You can find the names/addresses of your Senators at http://www.senate.gov/ Randall Henderson randall(at)edt.com ------------- End Included Message ------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MikeT(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 06, 1996
Subject: Suburu RV-6 Update
I visited NSI this am to check on the progress of the RV-6 Suburu prototype. Before I pass on the data please understand that I am just reporting what is happening and I'm not recomending or selling anything. My RV-6 is probably at least a year away from needing an engine so I'm gathering info wherever I can. Now - an new, unflown RV-6 is getting a 160 hp NSI package. It is being used as the prototype for their "firewall forward" package. A dummy engine is on the airplane now to fit the cowl. Their goal is to have the installation complete ready for the July 10 to 14 Arlington (WA) flyin. I have copies of their brochure for the RV-6. They are offering 3 engines - 160, 180 and 200 hp. The prototype will use their cockpit adjustable 3 bladed prop. Package prices as of now are: 160hp $16,950, 180hp $18,450 and 200hp $19,950 adding their prop with the package adds $2550. The packages include mount, wiring, gages, plumbing etc etc. I will keep an eye on the progress and report more later. I didn't get a first flight date but the airplane is plumbed and wired and appears to need only a live engine and the cowl. Mike Talley building RV-6 just finished the tail wings in July and flying my C-140 (RV-0?) miket(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 1996
Subject: Re: RV3 wing mods
From: William Curtis Chapin <wmchapin(at)dmci.net>
>Have any of you RV3 owners/builders received the plans for the RV3 wing >(main spar) modifications? > >Who else, other than Cheryl and me are currently building an RV3? > >Finn (putting fuselage tank together). > >finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com I recently "acquired" an RV-3 project. I talked to Van's last week and changed everything over to my name. They seemed to indicate that the modification is in the works and builders/owners would be notified. Anyone know of an O-320A or O-320B reasonably priced for my RV-3??? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Taylor" <gmt(at)mail.iinet.net.au>
Date: Jun 07, 1996
Subject: Re: RE: Service Charge (was Speed/Rate of Climb)
> Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 19:40:57 +0800 (WST) > From: Graham Taylor <opera.iinet.net.au!gmt(at)matronics.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Service Charge (was Speed/Rate of Climb) > Reply-to: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > > > My RV-8 empennage order form doesn't mention any 4% service charge for > credit > card. I'd like to know if this is for real. > > > > Steve Johnson > > spjohnson(at)mmm.com > > > > Yes Steve, it probably is. Nice to know I was wrong on this one. Seems that Van's policy now is to wear the merchant fee themselves. Good one Van's. Graham Taylor gmt(at)iinet.net.au Ph (619) 310 3254 Fax (619) 310 6048 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 1996
From: Phil Arter <arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu>
Subject: Ultimate Tools Catalog
To all of you tool junkies out there: Try calling MSC Industrial Supply (800)645-7270, and asking for their 3356 page catalog! Phil arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 06, 1996
Subject: Re: Top fwd fuse skin
>>>A lot of people have mentioned the wisdom of leaving the top forward fuse >>>skin off (6A) until the last possible moment for ease of installing >>>everything underneath. My question is: how long can you wait? > >Leave it off until you are ready to install the front windscreen. This should >be one of the last items you complete. My plane was just about flyable when >the canopy/windscreen was installed. Once the top skin and canopy are >complete you have very limited access to the inside of the plane. Thanks to all for the info. The consensus seems to be that the fuse isn't going anywhere with the fwd skin off, even with the engine hung. On a related note, once the instrument panel (including instruments) is in, how badly are the gauges/avionics going to get pounded when you rivet the skin on? One of the reasons to leave the skin off is for better access to the back of the panel on a slider-equipped -6, right? Thanks, Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 1996
From: ROBERT BUSICK <rbusick(at)nmsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Air Compressor deal, Drill press advice needed
IMHO even if Sam's gave me the aircompressor free I would not take it. I have an oil free one and it make so much noise I am about to toss it. I definately plan on getting a quiet oilbath type. Costs more, but it is either that or quit building. My motto, buy expensive now, to save later. Bob Busick RV-6 rbusick(at)nmsu.edu On Thu, 6 Jun 1996, Tim Lewis wrote: > I found a pretty good deal at Sams (the Wal Mart warehouse), and I've > noticed that Sams often stocks the same "deals" in several locations. > Here in San Antonio they have a Coleman 4.5 hp, 25 gal air > compressor/tank, 9cfm @ 40 psi, 7.2 cfm @ 90 psi, w/ built in regulator > for $199. It's oil free, direct drive type. > > I'm looking for advice on a drill press: > > 1. 14" bench mount, 210-3700rpm, 3/4 hp from Harbor Freight, $200 > (has a "free oiler", whatever that is) > 2. 13" floor mount, 195-3630rmp, 3/4 hp from Harbo Freight, $230 > ("dry table, no oiler needed" whatever that means) > 3. 15" bench mount, 250-3100 rpm, 1 hp from Sears, $300 > > I'm inclined to go with the $200 unit from Harbor Freight. What's an > oiler? Any advice from the group on drill presses? > > Tim Lewis > Buying tools, waitin' fer the kit > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Cowling attach hinges
he 601B if it is fluted. My question is why is this shim necessary. >The manual says the cowling is .080 to .090". The F601B is .060 and the >skin is .032", so that gives you your .090". It looks to me like this cross >section would be appropriate for the bottom of the firewall where you have a >.020 firewall flange and a .040 skin, so you need a spacer of about .032 to >bring it up to the .090". > >Could it be that the cowling is actually 1/8"? All of this would make more >sense if that was the case. > >Scott Sawby RV 6A Scott: I made reference marks all around my top and botom cowls and measured the thickness with a vernier at the marks to determine thickness. I paid particular attention on the top cowl. There are differences in thickness on the cowls. I fastened the top cowl on with screws instead of hinge and wanted to add a couple of layers of fiberglass along the aft portion (two layer layup on a "hat" section to increase stifness in this area) of the top cowl which affected thickness, so the shim thickness needs to be adjusted. If you error in installation of the cowl, it's best to put in too much shim as you can always add a layer of fiberglass or two to the cowl to bring it flush with the surface. If you go the other way, you'll have to shave some material off of the cowl to get it to lay flush, not a good idea. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: User Fees, Trust Fund
Date: Jun 06, 1996
IMHO, the best way to promote the reinstatement of the airline ticket tax is to show that it benefits the airline traveler the most. They are the ones that use the system and require the safety of the FAA rules and IFR system to a much greater extent than does GA. We are a drop in the bucket. With the FL crash, everyone is up in arms over safety so now is the best time to sock them with paying the tax to support the FAA and the Air Traffic System. The tax per airline ticket is small and is spread over the millions of airline travelers. Herman > All: > > I just finished my letter to my gummint representative. I am presenting > it here in the hopes that it will inspire others to write their letters. > Feel free to plagarize at will. > > Make yourself heard. We need to send a clear message so they will stop > trying to push this user fee crap on us once and for all. > > The text original AOPA legislative alert follows the letter. > > Randall Henderson > randall(at)edt.com > > ---- > > June 6, 1996 > > The Honorable Mark O. Hatfield > U.S. Senate > Washington, DC 20510 > > Senator Hatfield: > > I am writing to urge you to do all you can to make sure that the tax on > airline tickets, which expired on January 1, is reinstated as soon as > possible. I am very concerned that if this does not happen soon, the > Aviation Trust Fund, which General Aviation users have been dutifully > paying into through fuel taxes for many years, will go bankrupt, and > the factions that want to impose direct user fees on general aviation > will win. Then we will be saddled with a hugely burdensome and > inefficient user fee scheme after all. > > General Aviation organizations, as well as individual pilots and > aircraft owners, are virtually unanimous in their opposition to user > fees. Proponents of user fees argue that General Aviation users are not > paying their fair share for the facilities they use. I strongly > disagree. The primary reason the FAA/ATC system is as complex as it is > is because of the air carriers, and the primary reason GA aircraft USE > the system is so that they won't be in conflict with said air carriers' > operations. It is only just that the air carriers should bear the major > burden for the FAA and ATC system in the first place. > > The bankruptcy of the Aviation Trust Fund would be a huge tragedy. I > find it ironic that the word "Trust" is in the name, as we as pilots > and aircraft owners have "trusted" for a long time that the money we > pay will be used wisely. But now, suddenly, it is being drained for no > good reason, and I fear that if it runs out it will be used against us > in an effort to impose a new, additional, bureaucracy-heavy fee > structure on General Aviation. I do not believe I am exaggerating when > I say if that occurs, it is almost certain to kill the General Aviation > industry, and then user fees won't do any good, since there won't be > anyone there to pay them. > > Sincerely, > > Randall Henderson > > ---- > > ------------- Begin Included Message ------------- > > AOPA Legislative Action > 500 E Street SW, Suite 290 > Washington, DC 20024 > > > Dear Randall W. Henderson: > > Our war against user fees has reached a pivotal battle. AOPA > Legislative Action urgently needs your help to win it! > > You may have heard that the tax on airline tickets, which provides > most of the FAA's funding through the Aviation Trust Fund, expired > on January 1. Along with fuel taxes general aviation pays, and taxes > on cargo and other fuels, the ticket tax was the source of 70 > percent of FAA's funding. For a while, the surplus in the trust fund > is keeping FAA running, but the balance will run out by the end > of the year. > > The ticket tax was caught in the same fight over the federal budget > that shut the federal government down several times and caused > Congress to finish the 1996 budget seven months late. But that > fight is over now. Why hasn't congress reinstated the tax? > > Insiders in Washington know why. Certain key members of Congress > want to choke the FAA so that Congress will impose USER FEES for air > traffic control and other services. > > We all know that Congress doesn't do much until there's a chrisis. > Look at the accident in Cheyenne, Wyoming last month involving > Jessica Dubroff. Younger and younger children have been involved in > record-setting attempts for a decade now, but Congress only reacted > after disaster struck. And I'm afraid the same thing could happen > to the Aviation Trust Fund -- with terrible results. > > Unless we stir them to action, we fear Congress will let the Trust > Fund go to the verge of bankruptcy. Then legislators will wake up > in October - right before an election - and realize they must do > something, ANYTHING, to ensure that the safety of the traveling > public isn't compromised by a lack of funding. And in the climate of > chrisis, politicians will stamped toward any idea to fund aviation. > > And the quickest and easiest way to do it will be user fees -- _that_ > _you_ _will_ _have_ _to_ _pay_. > > It won't matter that user fees would devastate general aviation, > cost too much to collect, terribly disrupt the aviation industry, > and hand the FAA a blank check to spend all it wants. All our > arguments against user fees, which have been quite successful in > holding them back so far, will be swept away in the mad rush to > DO SOMETHING. > > By ignoring the expired ticket tax and holding the Aviation Trust > Fund hostage, user fee proponents are staging a last-ditch attempt > to force a discredited idea down the throats of aviation users. > These people are willing to let the trust fund go bankrupt just > to push their agenda. > > As a pilot and a taxpayer, you have the right to tell your > representatives in Congress how important it is to reinstate the > excise taxes that feed the Trust Fund now. We need to preserve > the existing system of taxes, not bankrupt the airway system just to > impose a draconian user fee scheme. This is the message Congress > needs to hear: Save the Aviation Trust Fund from Bankruptcy. > Restore the ticket tax before the FAA runs out of money! And no > new user fees! > > Anyone who cares very much about the future of general aviation, > I know I can depend on you to speak up. It's even more important > that you act today, because your senator, Mark O. Hatfield, is > Chairman of the Senate Transportation Appropriations Subcommittee. > Please contact Senator Hatfield today and urge him to act to save > the Trust Fund. You can write to him at: > > The Honorable Mark O. Hatfield > U.S. Senate > Washington, DC 20510. > > (Or whoever your senator(s) is/are if you do not live in Oregon) > > Thank you for your help. To say that the future of general aviation > depends on you now is no exaggeration. > > Sincerely, > > Phil Boyer > President > AOPA Leglislative Action > > =========================================================================== > > You can find more information about the issue of user fees and > the Trust Fund on the web at > http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/aopala.htm > > You can find the names/addresses of your Senators at > http://www.senate.gov/ > > Randall Henderson > randall(at)edt.com > ------------- End Included Message ------------- -------------------------------------------------------- *NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my own and are independent of my employer. Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 1996
From: Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com>
Subject: Top fwd fuse skin
Text item: > On a >related note, once the instrument panel (including instruments) is in, how >badly are the gauges/avionics going to get pounded when you rivet the skin


May 28, 1996 - June 06, 1996

RV-Archive.digest.vol-bm