RV-Archive.digest.vol-bo
June 17, 1996 - June 27, 1996
>Klaus Roth
>Germany
>
Klaus:
I do not know of the system you mention. However, I believe Vetterman
offers a crossover and thats what I would do if I had to hang mufflers on mine.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PatK(at)gnn.com (Patrick Kelley) |
I'm resending this because I never saw it hit the 'list. If I just missed it
and this is a repeat, forgive me.
>From: PatK(at)gnn.com (Patrick Kelley)
>To: quickmail.llnl.gov!Elon.Ormsby(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Pre-Punched
>
>You asked:
>>Patrick Kelly, why do you hate pre-punched skins?
>>
>Ok, this is only my opinion, but the prepunched skins actually add much
>complexity when attempting to build because you have to be sure that
>underlying structure exactly matches the pre-drilled holes. I built my
>empennage without the pre-drilled option and the rivet lines are straight
> and
>match the structure and if there are any variances to the plan dimensions,
>you would not be able to see them. My wings are pre-punched (Van's did
> not
>give me an option; I shall insist on my fuselage kit that I get undrilled
>skins.) The quality of the skins is not in question here; I just find it
>very difficult to get my structure to line up with the *$&^%*&% holes! On
>the leading edge, I was able to reach through the lightening holes and
> force
>the ribs into position (variance was less than 1/16" after jigging) but it
>was not always easy to do. The tank skins almost defeated me, as there
> was
>no way to reach inside without undoing one side of the skin or another. I
>expect the main skins will not be a problem, but I am so unhappy with the
>effort it has taken so far that I am admittedly biased against any
>pre-punched skin. Somehow, I feel that pre-drilling the skins before the
>structure is in place is akin to trimming the skin too early. How often
> have
>we said, "don't cut anything until you have to"? Anyway, this is my
> opinion
>and I quite understand those who prefer to do the extra work in order to
> have
>straight and exactly placed rivet lines.
>
>PatK - RV-6A - Wing tank finally drilled and clecoed together. (Whew!)
>PatK
PatK
________________________________________________________________________________
<< The bolts are then inserted into
deliberately undersized holes in the spar. When the bolts heat back
up to room temp., they expand. He says that the spar and bolts are
essentially one part after this process, and that removing the bolt is
basically impossible. Makes for a very strong spar, though. >>
The expansion of the bolt pre-loads the metal around the bolt hole... If the
spar material is thick, and the working stress on the metal around the hole
is engineered with this preload in mind (i.e. when done by professionals)
then it is a neat trick... if done in thinner material, or in holes too close
to an edge, etc., it could lead to the stress being a tad too close to the
metals yield point, resulting in stress cracking in an area that is
difficult, or impossible, to inspect... this sort of trick is best done only
by experienced engineers/builders...
Denny k8do(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Another screwed up VS. |
> Unfortunately, I noticed that I measured the VS 406 angle incorrectly - I
> measured the 1 1/2" offset from a vertical from a line drawn on the wrong
> side of the VS406.
> As consequence, the end rib is not at the correct angle - it's closer to
> vertical than it should be.
If you made the rib too vertical, doesn't this mean you aren't removing
enough material? That is, if you were to realign and redrill, wouldn't you
be doing so such that where the current holes are would become scrap or
possibly candidate holes for the fiberglass tip?
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:----Nice---- |
>FYI Last week I mailed Van's an order for fuel sending units, and added a
>note saying that if they had gotten around to making inspection plates and
>reinforcing rings for the tanks, to send me some.
> Great days, - - - they not only had them, but they have all the rivinut
>holes punched, sending unit holes punched, fuel pick-up hole punched and the
>two nose reinforcement pieces made. What a deal. I went back to the catalog
>to see if I had missed them and still didn't see them so thought I would
>post this for you guys and gals that are in-to wing construction. I'm sure
>Van will have these in his next catalog.
>
>Cecil Hatfield RV-6A in Thousand Oaks California
>
>
>
But the question is, has he gotten around to specifying sealed nutplates
in this area? So far, this is the ONLY area of the tanks where I've had
leakage. Not much of a problem, but just enough to be annoying....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical conduit cut outs, wing |
>
>I am at the point in building a RV-6A where the holes for the electrical
>conduit must
> be drilled in the wing ribs. Orndorf's video puts them in the bottom of
the
>wing
>behind the spar. F. Justice says about 2-1`/4 behind the spar and 1-1/2
>below the
> top skin, which puits them in a lightening hole, by my calculations. What
>are the
>popular locations and why are they preferred?
>
>Tom Redfield
>75160.3373(at)compuserve.com
>
>
I put mine in the upper (top) front corner of the rib behinf the spar.
Found that this was a good location relative to the inspection plate location
in the wing.
>Where ever you put them, just be sure to leave room to buck the rivets when
>you install the skin. I didn't and had a heck of a time getting some of
them
>bucked.
>Jim Cone
>jamescone(at)aol.com
This is a good point, BUT, if you're smart, you'll make sure that the
conduit holes are sized such that you are able to install the conduit AFTER
you have riveted on the skins. Tapering the end of the conduit on a belt
sander allows for any hole alignmet problems. RTV on as many ribs as you can
reach from the wing ends and the inspection hole keep it in place.....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | eilts(at)sg37.dseg.ti.com (Henry Eilts) |
To all,
Most large shops buy their band saw blades in 100 ft. rolls and have a
bandsaw blade welder to make blades on the spot to the correct length.
I'm pretty sure that most larger machine shops could weld a bandsaw
blade for you in 5 minutes or less. The welder is essentially a spot
welder with jigs and clamps to hold the blade ends square for the
weld. No setup required.
Hank Eilts
About to start RV6 tail.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | trip to Madison, WI |
My wife and I are flying to Madison, WI this week, should be there Friday
morning. We'll be free Fri/Sat/Sun and would be really like to visit a
project/finished AC. We'll have a car so transport is no problem.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
home 505.275.3179
office 505.889.7241
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
| Subject: | Duckworth lights |
Does anybody know Don's phone number or e-mail address.
Replay off-list if you like.
Thanks
Rick
Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Gottschalk ((301) 286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov> |
Doug,
I bought the cheap Sears table top bandsaw. I found American Vermont made
metal blades that fit. I started to buy bulk bandsaw blade material to make
my own but was too lazy to follow through. I found a longer sears blade
that was only 1/4" wide vs the more typical 1/2" This worked much better
and cut tighter corners. I bought a bandsaw blade splicing kit from Harbor
Freight for about $20. Works good, it's easy, and lasts a long time. I'm
working on the fuselage and have only used about four blades.
BTW, I cut my wing spar strips on the table saw as well.
-Gene Gottschalk
geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov
>reference the band saw.
>
>That brings back memories. When I was tapering my spar strips for my wing
>spars, I tried to buy a band saw. I looked at the typical $139.00 variety
>you find at Walmarts and Sears. When I found that they didn't sell aluminum
>cutting blases, I called Black & Decker and asked why. They told me that
>those saws could not be used to cut aluminum. They were made for wood only.
> They recommended that I purhcase the heavy metal shop version, $300 and up.
> I used the hollow ground planer blade and my table saw. I still think the
>typical inexpensive woodshop band saw would have done the job if I had
>ordered the blades special made. Has anyone tried that?
>
>Doug Brabston
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sierchio(at)groucho.boi.noaa.gov |
Hi All,
I'm going to Van's this Friday to pick up my RV-6 empennage kit.
I've heard someone mention something going on at Scappoose, OR on
June 22nd.
Does anyone have any more info on this event? As I long as I'm in
the area, I thought I'd check it out.
Thanks in advance.
Mike
====================================================================
Mike Sierchio NIFC-National Weather Service
sierchio(at)groucho.boi.noaa.gov 3833 S. Development Ave., Bldg 3807
(208) 334-9824 Boise, ID 83705-5354
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Sealed Nut Plates (was Re: RV-List:----Nice----) |
[regarding fuel tank access covers & fuel sending units:]
> But the question is, has he gotten around to specifying sealed nutplates
> in this area? So far, this is the ONLY area of the tanks where I've had
> leakage. Not much of a problem, but just enough to be annoying....
>
> Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
> wstucklen(at)aol.com
Did you use proseal or gasket/fuel lube? I would think proseal would do the
trick, but of course there is the never ending debate whether you want to
have to pry the thing off if you ever have to remove it....
I considered sealed nut plates but after my buddy got a bunch and found
that they don't use the same hole pattern as the regular ones (which he'd
already drilled and now Vans does it for you) he had to scrap the idea.
I recently came upon what looks to be an interesting alternative. Long-Lok
corp. has a line of fasteners (bolts, machine screws, and rivets (!)) with a
recess in the underside of the head that an o-ring fits into. They will
make the o-ring out of whatever you want, including buna-n rubber (the
preferred gasket material for avgas, etc.). I talked to their rep recently
and he said he had talked to Vans before and got a lukewarm reception,
but that he was going to try again.
Contact:
Long-Lok Fasteners
10630 Chester Rd.
Cincinnati, OH 90250
513-772-1880 Fax513-772-1888
14119 Chadron Avenue
Hawthorne, CA 90250
310-675-9500 Fax310-675-9100
Randall Henderson
randall(at)edt.com
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
Does anyone know what happened to bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com?
He wrote the original RV Search engine that ran locally on a PC. He
released this application to us here on the list just before the last
holiday season. I think it was written using Visual Basic and work similar
to the one Matt has running on the list server. I would like to load a copy
of the original application on my new PC. My old PC crashed and I need some
way to restore myself.
Any help would be appreciated!
Greg Bordelon
greg(at)brokersys.com
"Bay Area RVator member"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: Search Engine?? |
>--------------
>Does anyone know what happened to bfgibbons(at)intellinet.com?
>
>He wrote the original RV Search engine that ran locally on a PC. He
>released this application to us here on the list just before the last
>holiday season. I think it was written using Visual Basic and work similar
>to the one Matt has running on the list server. I would like to load a copy
>of the original application on my new PC. My old PC crashed and I need some
>way to restore myself.
>
>Any help would be appreciated!
>
>Greg Bordelon
>greg(at)brokersys.com
>"Bay Area RVator member"
>--------------
BF's Search Engine can be found on the Matronics FTP server (ftp.matronics.com)
under /pub/business/matronics/RV_Search.
Matt
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94550
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Flap installation |
I recall a discussion regarding interference between the leading
edge of the flap and the flap brace when the flap was in the full
up position. I have this problem on my right wing though I didn't
on my left. My solution was to cut out a small section of the
leading edge of the flap wide enough to clear the flap brace where
the flap brace mounts to the rear spar stiffeners at the root of
the rear spar.
My question is: do I need to rivet a short piece of stiffener on
to the flap to replace the section of the flap leading edge right
angle that I removed? If so, how far does the siffener have to
extend beyond the cut-out?
Thanks!
Doug Medema, ready to mount flap brace, aileron mounts and gap seal.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Announcing....
The Fifth Annual Northwest RV Fly-In
Sponsored by Van's Air Force, Home Wing
Saturday June 22, 1996, 10:00 am till ??
Scappoose, OR Airport (1S4)
-> FOOD! Provided, nominal donation requested
-> FUN! Fly your RV in, or just stop by for some hangar flying
-> STUFF! T-shirts, gift items, and more
Look for it on the web: http://www.edt.com/homewing/flyin.html
For more info contact Don Wentz, Fly-In Leader, don_wentz(at)ccm.hf.intel.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Duckworth lights |
You wrote:
>
>Does anybody know Don's phone number or e-mail address.
>Replay off-list if you like.
>
>Thanks
>
>Rick
>Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
>
Don Wentz
503-543-2298
Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
Well, the finish line is getting closer. The airframe's done, the engine is
on, and the million little things are slowly getting accomplished. I don't
know a whole lot about aircraft engines, and Tony Bingellis' book "Firewall
Forward" has been a big help. However, I've got some detail questions that I
hope some of you pros can help me with.
Having purchased a new engine form Van's I assumed there would be detailed
information about my new 0-320. Silly me. I received a small "Owner's
Manual" that raises more questions than answers.
The diagram in the book shows something called a "thermostatic bypass valve"
where in fact there is an oil filter. I assume the filter replaces this
valve, or does it? What is this valve's function? Is it under the filter?
This "phantom" valve is also supposed to house the location of the oil temp
fitting. There is a new (not shown in the book) place on top of the oil
filter "manifold" where the fitting will screw in, am I correct in assuming
that this is the new location for the temp fitting?
Should Teflon tape be used on the fittings going into the engine, or
something (or nothing) else? The fitting for the oil pressure sensor is
right next to the hold down braket for the right mag, and there isn't enough
room to thread in the remote sender. Do I need to mount the sender on the
firewall somehow and run a hose to the engine? Or is there an alternate
fitting for the sender? There are a ton of 1/8 plugs on the engine, but no
documentation on what the heck they're for. There is a real handy one on top
of a horizontal protuberance above the right rear (#3) cylinder if in fact
that is a "pressure spot". This appendage has a castle nut threaded on part
way with a roll pin to lock it. What is this for?
I'm planning on istalling an electronic tach, and I understand it connects to
one the 'P' leads. In Tony's book he reccomends installing a 16 amp fuse in
line to the tach to prevent a failure from shorting out the mag. Has anyone
done this? How does a fuse prevent shorting of the mag? If the tach shorts
out does that blow the fuse and render the 'P' lead ungroundable?
Thanks for any and all help on these (or any other related ) matters. It
seems that just when I start understanding something (usually not until AFTER
it's finished) something else pops up that makes me feel woefully
inadequate...
--Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PAUL_ROSALES(at)prodigy.com (MR PAUL A ROSALES) |
| Subject: | Sealed Nut Plates |
-- [ From: Paul A. Rosales * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] --
On this subject, I was able to order #8 sealed nutplates, with o-ring
and standard K1000-8 rivet spacing, from
Genuine Aircraft Hardware Co. of Paso Robles, CA. (805) 239-3169.
Order #NAS1473-A08. They have quite a selection of hardware available
to the homebuilder. They don't accept Credit Cards but will take your
order, and give you a total dollar amount. You send them a check and
they'll send your parts. They have a $10 catalog that is invaluable!
I have also ordered other nutplates including those with dimpled rivet
holes that I'm using on the fuel tank attach flange.
Paul_Rosales(at)prodigy.com,
RV-6A Wings (still),
Lancaster, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
What a wonderful series of questions. It would be really nice for an engine
guru to sit down and write a supplement for Frank Justice's instructions
that deals with a typical RV installation. Does anyone feel noble?
Leo Davies- about to enter the same uncharted realm
>Well, the finish line is getting closer. The airframe's done, the engine is
>on, and the million little things are slowly getting accomplished. I don't
>know a whole lot about aircraft engines, and Tony Bingellis' book "Firewall
>Forward" has been a big help. However, I've got some detail questions that I
>hope some of you pros can help me with.
>
>Having purchased a new engine form Van's I assumed there would be detailed
>information about my new 0-320. Silly me. I received a small "Owner's
>Manual" that raises more questions than answers.
>
>The diagram in the book shows something called a "thermostatic bypass valve"
>where in fact there is an oil filter. I assume the filter replaces this
>valve, or does it? What is this valve's function? Is it under the filter?
> This "phantom" valve is also supposed to house the location of the oil temp
>fitting. There is a new (not shown in the book) place on top of the oil
>filter "manifold" where the fitting will screw in, am I correct in assuming
>that this is the new location for the temp fitting?
>
>Should Teflon tape be used on the fittings going into the engine, or
>something (or nothing) else? The fitting for the oil pressure sensor is
>right next to the hold down braket for the right mag, and there isn't enough
>room to thread in the remote sender. Do I need to mount the sender on the
>firewall somehow and run a hose to the engine? Or is there an alternate
>fitting for the sender? There are a ton of 1/8 plugs on the engine, but no
>documentation on what the heck they're for. There is a real handy one on top
>of a horizontal protuberance above the right rear (#3) cylinder if in fact
>that is a "pressure spot". This appendage has a castle nut threaded on part
>way with a roll pin to lock it. What is this for?
>
>I'm planning on istalling an electronic tach, and I understand it connects to
>one the 'P' leads. In Tony's book he reccomends installing a 16 amp fuse in
>line to the tach to prevent a failure from shorting out the mag. Has anyone
>done this? How does a fuse prevent shorting of the mag? If the tach shorts
>out does that blow the fuse and render the 'P' lead ungroundable?
>
>Thanks for any and all help on these (or any other related ) matters. It
>seems that just when I start understanding something (usually not until AFTER
>it's finished) something else pops up that makes me feel woefully
>inadequate...
>
>--Ed Bundy
>ebundy2620(at)aol.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pat McClung <pmc123(at)airmail.net> |
William Curtis Chapin wrote:
>
> >First come, first served---One group said they would pick them up but no
> >show, no word. I would prefer someone make use of them rather than end
> >up in someone's junk pile--that is where they came from!
>
> Where are the parts located?
The parts are in my hanger at Aerocountry Airport, near McKinney,
TX--About 40 miles north of Dallas.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
>W I've got some detail questions that I hope some of you pros can help me with.
>
Ed:
I'll try to answer your questions and I'm sure if I miss any somebody else
will check in and help.
The thermostatic bypass routes engine oil to the cooler when it exceeds the
temperature value of the themostat. Sort of like the themostat in you car's
radiator. Note, there was a service letter on the crimp nut last year and it
may apply to your engine. Check it. The thermostat comes off the bottom of
the filter casting when your engine is equiped with a filter. Your temp
probe will most likely come off the top of this casting. (Go look at one
that's flying and it's more obvious than trying to visualize)
Don't use teflon tape. Use thread compound on the pipe thread fittings.
Mount sending units (fuel and oil pressure) on the firewall, not the engine,
and run hose to them. (Use restrictors in the lines)
The "horozontal protuberance" you refer to is the oil pressure regulator.
Don't
screw around with it, lycoming set it for you. There is a better place to
tap oil pressure from the back of the engine behind # 3. Check other
installations and you will see it.
Where are you planning on hooking up your cooler lines? There are several
ways to do it. They are covered in the operators manual lycoming gave you
but it's quicker to look at one thats hooked up.
As far as your tach hook up... follow the the instructions that came with
your tach.
Hope this helps.
Have fun.....you're now at the stage when things take alot longer than you
think they will or should.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cecil Hatfield / Fourstar Printing <cecil(at)alto1.altonet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire extinguisher |
>>This is of great interest. Fire is the nightmare in a forced landing.
>>There was an article in Sports Aviation about a very nice fully optioned
>>RV4 that
>>had a halon system installed in the cabin (late 1994 I think). Halon is
>>now
>>unavailable in Australia due to environmental laws, I would be interested
>>to
>>hear of alternative systems people have used.
>>Leo Davies,
>>RV6A.
Leo,
I am registered by the state of California to service Fire Ext.
The Halon 1211 isn't being manufactured any where in the world. All that is
left is whats in use now. It can be got but at a very dear price now. I have
about 10 lbs that I saved for my RV when its done and resdy for it, when I
realized what was happening a few years ago.
I understand there is something in the works to replace Halon 1211, but it
may not be as good and/or cost more, who knows.
I hear that Freon is on the black market now so maybe Halon is too. Who
knows.
If any of you know a business that has computer rooms that is going out of
business, that would be a good time to see them and try to get their Halon
extingushers. Maybe at good price . . . like free. Hummmmmm
Cecil Hatfield
Thousand Oaks, CA
Rv-6A in the works
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Duckworth lights |
Rick;
What I have is (503) 543-2298. It's about 3-4 years old, but may be still good.
John D
>Does anybody know Don's phone number or e-mail address.
>Replay off-list if you like.
>
>Thanks
>
>Rick
>Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
>
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: INTERNET:EBundy2620(at)aol.com
RE: RV-List: Engines
>I'm planning on istalling an electronic tach, and I understand it connects to
>one the 'P' leads. In Tony's book he reccomends installing a 16 amp fuse in
>line to the tach to prevent a failure from shorting out the mag. Has anyone
>done this? How does a fuse prevent shorting of the mag? If the tach shorts
>out does that blow the fuse and render the 'P' lead ungroundable?
Ed, the tachometer should come with information on manufacturer's
recommendations for failure proof connction to p-leads. My personal
favorite calls for isolation resistors to be installed between the
mag switch hot terminal and the end of a shielded wire which takes
the p-lead signal over to the tachometer electronics. The p-lead
signal is HUGH . . over 300 volts peak to peak waveform. Most
tachs require not more than 10 volts peak to peak for proper operation,
maybe much less. Soooooooo . . as you can see, one can afford to
throw away MOST of that signal in favor of (1) isolation and (2)
magneto protecion.
Do you have your tach yet? What do the instructions say? Did you get
your AeroElectric Connection okay?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Ed Bundy's question on engines and other responses to it prompt me to suggest
the following:
Those who are subscribers to the 'Connection recently receive the last
of the HotFlash newsletters where we announced a new no frills, no
advertising, pure technical information publication called TechTips
for Homebuilders. If we do the job right, it will become what
Sport Aviation started out to be: nothing but good info on building
airplanes. We'll expand the charter to include all topics and will
solicit articles by willing authors for which they will be (gasp!!)
paid.
Ed's question raises the possiblity about a special publication on
the nuances of various brands/models of engines. I'll suggest
this . . .
As questions arrise, please post them but e-mail me copies directly
too at 72770.552(at)compuserve.com. Those which I CAN answer, I will do
so. More importantly, I'll compile them in a special file with the
goal of (1) seeking out answers though the various contacts I have
in spam-can city (2) editing the questions and answers into a issue
or series of issues in TechTips or perhaps compiling a separate publication
that is engine/model specific. If any of you feel inclined to become
an author on the subject and would like to participate in our publishing
efforts, contact us by phone or e-mail with your proposal . . .
Regards,
Bob and Dee
AeroElectric Connection
________________________________________________________________________________
Ed: As the song says, Welcome to my world! I'll say what little I know on
some of what you have asked.
>However, I've got some detail questions that I>hope some of you pros can
help me with.
>The diagram in the book shows something called a "thermostatic bypass
valve">where in fact there is an oil filter. I assume the filter replaces
this>valve, or does it? What is this valve's function? Is it under the filter?
The Thermostatic valve, many call a vermitherm or so, is a thermostatic
controlled bypass that as the oil temp gets warmer, it is suppose to open
and let oil go through the cooler. On my E2D, it is in a dome shaped thing
that sticks out about 3-4 inches, about 2 in across,and the dome has like
two side by side domes, one smaller than the other. Inside the larger one
is an oil filter. But the filter is only a screen that can be slipped out
of the dome once removed from the access. section. In the smaller dome is
the thermo. valve. Has a threaded bolt looker with a high temp lock nut on
it that compresses a spring that controls a beveled valve. So, if this is
what you are calling an oil filter, then it has the thermo valve in it. If
you are talking about a cartridge type oil filter, then forget all that I've
said.
>Should Teflon tape be used on the fittings going into the engine, or
>something (or nothing) else?
I used some gook that is put out for threads on engines etc. I forget the
name of it, but it has been on the market since I was about 8 years old,
some of it is for gaskets, other for thread sealing, in fact it may be form
a gasket as a brand name. You want to use it like a real cheapskate, so
that it doesn't get around in front of the hole and stop up the galleys or
channels.
>The fitting for the oil pressure sensor is>right next to the hold down
>braket for the right mag, and there isn't enough>room to thread in the
remote sender. Do I need to mount the sender on the>firewall somehow and
run a hose to the engine?
I strongly suggest this. Think of that sender as a pendulum sticking out of
the engine trying to swing back and forth due to the vibes of the engine, it
may not swing very far, but each attempt is putting stress on that little
brass fitting. Soon it cracks and oil goes every where at the most
inopportune times.
>I'm planning on istalling an electronic tach, and I understand it connects
to>one the 'P' leads. In Tony's book he recommends installing a 16 amp fuse
in>line to the tach to prevent a failure from shorting out the mag. Has
anyone>done this? How does a fuse prevent shorting of the mag? If the tach
shorts>out does that blow the fuse and render the 'P' lead ungroundable?
I have read much about some elec tachs that if they fail in some ways, they
do, or might, ground the tach. I have no first hand exper. at this, and
don't understand elec. But, as I understand from reading, only some of them
do so, whereas others don't, so take your pick. But I would want to know if
the elec tach could fail in any way that would ground the mag.
>
>Thanks for any and all help on these (or any other related ) matters. It
>seems that just when I start understanding something (usually not until AFTER
>it's finished) something else pops up that makes me feel woefully
>inadequate...
Yeah, been there, done that. But think of what you are learning and how
much it will apply to the maint. of the system and facilitate the next
project! Besides, I think all of us need a lesson in humility every now and
then to keep us from getting top heavy with egotism.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | rv-list: Governor Bracket |
FYI,
The prop governor bracket that Van's sells comes with wrong instructions.
The instructions are in the form of a full written page and a detailed
drawing. The drawing does not conform with what is written. If the bracket
is installed per the drawing, the bracket goes right through the oil filter.
The written instruction have MANY errors. I called Van's last night and the
person I spoke with basically said , "Well, I've never installed one of
those governors myself. Just do whatever it takes to make it fit." This
is NOT what I wanted to hear when installing an engine.
If anyone is interested, I can put together a list of what I have done and
post it to the list. Keep in mind, I haven't run the engine yet, or even
installed the cable, so I can't guarantee anything yet. My installation of
the bracket seems like it should work with no problems. The installation
also looks like what Van's was getting at with his instructions. BTW, all
my components (engine, prop and governor) are brand new from Van's.
-Scott N506RV
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rv-list: Governor Bracket |
Text item:
>The prop governor bracket that Van's sells comes with wrong instructions.
> The drawing does not conform with what is written. If the bracket
>is installed per the drawing, the bracket goes right through the oil filter.
I only saw one error in the instructions I got from Van's. but then maybe by now
I have a very high threshold for error recognition.
If you do nothing to the governor other than remove three screws to attach the
bracket it will indeed hit the oil filter. The instructions I got also said to
loosen the back of the governor and rotate the rear plate/control arm assembly
some, which causes the bracket to come out pointing to the left side and
slightly above the oil filter. The error in the instructions I found was that it
said to just loosen the six screws and rotate the rear. You have to pull the
screws completely out to do this.
FKJ
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
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Subject: RV-List: rv-list: Governor Bracket
From: Scott Gesele <villagenet.com!scottg(at)matronics.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 09:41:37 -0400
4.1)
(8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA04186 for ; Tue
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov> |
| Subject: | FAQ list request - introduction |
I'm very impressed with the communication on the RV-list. This is what
the RV community needs! I wish this type of forum was available ten
years ago when I started my project. IAW Matt's FAQ list request. My
RV-4, SN 1356, N13MR, first flight was August 91. I still haven't
completed the airplane although I've flown it 300 hours (probably never
will). I also have a 1948 Ryan Navion and a IAC One Design (project).
My occupation is airport bum. I've dabbled in aerospace, systems,
structures, and reliability engineering with major defense contractors,
worked as an A&P, piloted US Air Force jets for nine years, and currently
fund my homebuilding project(s) by working for the NTSB investigating
aircraft accidents.
Mitch Robbins
RV-4 N13MR Flying
robbinm(at)chi.ntsb.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Duckworth lights |
John Darby wrote:
>
> Rick;
> What I have is (503) 543-2298. It's about 3-4 years old, but may be still good.
> John D
>
> >Does anybody know Don's phone number or e-mail address.
> >Replay off-list if you like.
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >Rick
> >Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
> >
> John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
> johnd@our-town.comThanks John... Don saw my mail and contacted me..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov> |
| Subject: | Lycoming electronic ignition |
I've been following the development of the laser system with great
interest. No extravagant electrical installation is required, the system
draws about 3 Amps and functions like conventional mags without system
electrical power. Compared to conventional mags, there is a potential
increase in fuel economy at reduced power settings. Unison quotes 8 to
14 percent improvement in specific fuel consumption, which is probably
optimistic. They are also claiming greater gains with fuel injection
over carbs. No gain at power settings over about 75%. One would have
to spend a lot of time cruising at altitude, at least in an RV, to reap
the fuel economy benefits. Perform a quick cost analysis based on your
fuel cost and the way you fly your airplane. I pay $2 per gallon and the
fuel savings would not pay for the increased cost of the laser system
based on the way I fly my airplane (very little time at cruise power
settings).
Other factors may be increased spark plug life and easier starting.
In my opinion, the real advantage, per dollar, is the fact that they are
incorporating some additional features into the system. A bendix type
fuel injection system is under test, which uses features already
incorporated into the laser system, to provide optimized automatic
mixture control. Additionally, engine trend monitoring, prop control,
and cockpit instrumentation are planned developments. Maybe not all
features everyone would desire on an RV but at least the technology is
advancing.
For a small fortune (currently $2500 US list for the basic O-320
ignition), you can have systems that were incorporated into your
production automobile 15 years ago.
Unison advertises phone numbers in Florida for data regarding the laser
system. 904-739-4118, fax 904-739-4006.
Mitch Robbins
RV-4 N13MR Flying
------
From: owner-rv-list[SMTP:owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 1996 7:50 PM
Subject: RV-List: Lycoming electronic ignition
Does anyone have info on the Lycoming electronic ignition? In
particular, does it require dual batteries or any other precautions
against single point of failure. Have details been published?
I don't recall seeing this on the list but if it's had a run I'll use
it as an excuse to learn about the archive search.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 fus out of jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wingtip lighting |
Stuart,
My inspector had no problem with the three in one lights.
Todd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314(at)AZStarNet.com (Tom Sargent) |
| Subject: | forced landing in el monte? |
I saw a short report in the news monday night about a pilot who had
an engine failure and did a successful dead stick landing on I-10 in El
Monte, CA. The one second worth of video that they showed looked just like
an RV-6A. Has anybody heard about this? I can't find anything on the wire
services about it.
---
Tom Sargent, Tucson, AZ, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:----Nice---- |
Use fuel lube on your screws and you shouldn't have any problem. I used 8-32
stainless allen head screws, just in case.....
Todd
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sealed Nut Plates (was Re: RV-List:----Nice----) |
I used fuel lube on my screws and gasket material with no leaks from day one.
(knock on metal...) 56 hours on tach.
Todd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Schramm" <jeff.schramm(at)mailmac.wichita.brite.com> |
| Subject: | forced landing in el monte? |
>> [snip]...successful dead stick landing on I-10 in El
Monte, CA. The one second worth of video that they showed looked just like
an RV-6A. Has anybody heard about this...[snip] <<
The report I read (AvSig on Compuserve) said it was a Katana from the flight
school at EMT.
Jeff Schramm, Wichita KS, jeff.schramm(at)brite.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Johnson, Steve" <spjohnson(at)msmail.mmmg.com> |
Hi all,
I am wondering about how to handle rudder trim when I build my empennage. I
have seen several RV-4 and RV-6 examples with rudder trim that looks like it's
been added after the plane is finished and flying. I wonder if there is a
good way to tackle this issue befor the rudder is closed up? I notice the
RV-8 prototype doesn't have rudder trim, but I don't think I want to count on
being lucky and getting it just right without some adjustment.
Steve Johnson
spjohnson(at)mmm.com
RV-8, building jig, ordering empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harry Paine <HPair(at)ix16.ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | c214 squeezer for sale |
I have a rebuilt CP 114 alligator squeeze for sale with 2 flush sets and
#40 #30 #20 cupped sets. price $275.00 COD. . If you need one this is a
terrific deal. First email gets it please contact me at HPair(at)ix.netcom.com
harry Paine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wingtip lighting |
I believe for the white tail lights to not be visable, the view would be
from about 15 feet behind. "If you can't see my mirrors, I can't see you."
"If you can't see my white position lights, you're in VERY tight formation."
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
Congratulations on getting this far!. I'm a bit behind you, and since I
bought a runout engine and in the middle of overhauling it, I thought I
would try to answer your questions the best I can.
>The diagram in the book shows something called a "thermostatic bypass valve"
>where in fact there is an oil filter. I assume the filter replaces this
>valve, or does it? What is this valve's function? Is it under the filter?
> This "phantom" valve is also supposed to house the location of the oil temp
>fitting. There is a new (not shown in the book) place on top of the oil
>filter "manifold" where the fitting will screw in, am I correct in assuming
>that this is the new location for the temp fitting?
The Thermostatic bypass valve regulates flow through the oil cooler based
upon oil temerature. On my engine, it is located on the bottom of the oil
filter adapter. I believe you are correct that the oil temp fitting screws
into the top of the oil filter adapter.
>
>Should Teflon tape be used on the fittings going into the engine, or
>something (or nothing) else?
Generally, the use of teflon tape is a no-no. Bits of it can get swept
away with the oil inside, and plug something up.
The fitting for the oil pressure sensor is
>right next to the hold down braket for the right mag, and there isn't enough
>room to thread in the remote sender. Do I need to mount the sender on the
>firewall somehow and run a hose to the engine? Or is there an alternate
>fitting for the sender?
There are two or three places on the accessory case where you can install a
fitting for oil pressure. Unforunately, I can't remember where they are at
the moment.
> There are a ton of 1/8 plugs on the engine, but no
>documentation on what the heck they're for. There is a real handy one on top
>of a horizontal protuberance above the right rear (#3) cylinder if in fact
>that is a "pressure spot". This appendage has a castle nut threaded on part
>way with a roll pin to lock it. What is this for?
I have NO idea what that one is fore. Most of the plugs you see are there
to plug holes that were necessary to drill in order to drill the oil
galleys.
>I'm planning on istalling an electronic tach, and I understand it connects to
>one the 'P' leads. In Tony's book he reccomends installing a 16 amp fuse in
>line to the tach to prevent a failure from shorting out the mag. Has anyone
>done this? How does a fuse prevent shorting of the mag? If the tach shorts
>out does that blow the fuse and render the 'P' lead ungroundable?
OK, maybe I'm wrong, but I cannot think of a reason why you should install
a fuse in the p-lead line to the tach. When you run on one mag, the other
is grounded via the p-lead, right? The only reason I can think of is so
that if your tach shorts the p-lead to ground, the fuse will blow and not
ground your mag. I would think you would want a fusse MUCH smaller than 8
amps though. WHat do the installation instructions with your tach say?
How about calling the tach manufacturer and asking them?
Best regards,
dave barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wingtip COM antenna |
Sportcraft now has a wingtip COM antenna available.
Tracy Saylor has one in his RV-6, and speaks very highly of it. He says that
at fifty (50) miles from Camarillo he can pick up the ATIS, and in a flat 360
degree turn, does not loose the station at any heading. (Tracy also says if
you haven't tried this wingtip antenna, you won't believe it will work. That
the only way you'll believe it, is to try it.)
Unfortunely, to work properly, only one of these antenna's can be mounted in
each
wingtip .
I have the wingtip NAV and COM antennas available for $55.00 each (plus $3.00
shipping/handling, and state tax if applicable).
Order from:
Less Drag Products
P.O. Box 1195
Somis, Ca. 93066
Please address any questions about this product directly to:
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sealed Nut Plates (was Re: RV-List:----Nice----) |
I'm not familiar with fuel lube. What exactly is it and where did you get it,
please?
Thanks Mal rvbildr(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Rudder Pedal Placement |
I need a measurement from a tall 6 or 6A flyer. I would
like to know the minimum distance from the firewall to the
foreward edge of the rudder pedal bearing block which will
still allow full travel of the rudder and brake pedal. I'm
installing the suspended pedals.
thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rv-list: Governor Bracket |
>
>Text item:
>
>I only saw one error in the instructions I got from Van's. but then maybe
by now
>I have a very high threshold for error recognition.
>
>If you do nothing to the governor other than remove three screws to attach the
>bracket it will indeed hit the oil filter. The instructions I got also said to
>loosen the back of the governor and rotate the rear plate/control arm assembly
>some, which causes the bracket to come out pointing to the left side and
>slightly above the oil filter. The error in the instructions I found was
that it
>said to just loosen the six screws and rotate the rear. You have to pull the
>screws completely out to do this.
>
>FKJ
>
The drawing shows the bracket installed without rotating the rear plate.
The instructions do mention rotating the rear assembly. They also specify
which screws hold the bracket on the governor (by the deg. markings on the
case). These reference points are 60 deg. off. My main problem was not
knowing what part of the instructions were wrong and what was correct.
Remember, this is the first time I'm installing something like this. I
would have hoped that the instructions/ drawings were reasonably correct.
-Scott I'll quit my complaining and get back to building :)
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical conduit cut outs, wing |
>I am at the point in building a RV-6A where the holes for the electrical
>conduit must
> be drilled in the wing ribs.
There are several possible locations, each has its pros and cons.
One possibility is right behind the spar, below the top of the wing. Each
rib has a nice area there formed by the front flange, top flange, and fwd
lightning hole. You can't run the conduit in the bottom of the wing that
far fwd because then it will interfere with the access hole.
You can also run it through the ribs just aft of the aileron bellcrank
area. Again, watch out for interference with the access hole if you run
the conduit on the bottom.
Running the conduit through the ribs next to the bottom skins and a
positioned a little farther aft is about the best location, I think. That
way it can co into the fuselage right into the side of the seat ribs
without a lot of bending.
The other thing to think about is that you would like the conduit to rest
next to the skins (top vs bottom) that you rivet on FIRST. That way you
can rivet the first set of skins on, install the conduit, and it will be
out of the way when you rivet the second set of skins on.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
finishing kit on order
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
> I am wondering about how to handle rudder trim when I build my empennage. I
> have seen several RV-4 and RV-6 examples with rudder trim that looks like it's
> been added after the plane is finished and flying. I wonder if there is a
> good way to tackle this issue befor the rudder is closed up? I notice the
> RV-8 prototype doesn't have rudder trim, but I don't think I want to count on
> being lucky and getting it just right without some adjustment.
Most builders get their plane in the air, see what kind of adjustment they
need, then duct tape an adjustment in place. Repeat until they get it right.
Some of them actually go back and epoxy the adjustment once it's right, but
a lot seem to never get around to that part.
-J
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bennett" <bennett(at)healey.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting inside |
Help everybody!
I posted the following msg the other day expecting a deluge of
advice.
What did I get? Zilch. Nix. Not a bloody sausage!
Is there nobody out there who has painted an airplane?
I have changed my deodorant. Will that help?
If this doesn't work I'll post under subject title of "Which bandsaw
should I buy?" Then you'll be sorry!
Peter
> I am starting to put various stuff inside the cabin area. At the
> moment it it a beautiful vomit colored green, being primed only. When
> is the best time to paint the inside of the cabin area? Is it best to
> mask rudder cables, fuel fittings, wiring etc, or pull it out to
> paint? Or is it best to paint now and patch up the chips later?
>
> All suggestions gratefully considered.
>
> Peter Bennett
> RV6 the right way up.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PAUL_ROSALES(at)prodigy.com (MR PAUL A ROSALES) |
| Subject: | Re: forced landing in el monte? |
-- [ From: Paul A. Rosales * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] --
> Subject: RV-List: forced landing in el monte?
>
> I saw a short report in the news monday night about a pilot
who
> had an engine failure and did a successful dead stick landing on I-10
in
> El Monte, CA. The one second worth of video that they showed looked
just
> like an RV-6A. Has anybody heard about this? I can't find anything on
the
> wire services about it.
>
> ---
> Tom Sargent, Tucson, AZ, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
>
>
>
The airplane was a Katana with a student and instructor on board. They
were able to land safely with no damage to the aircraft or any
vehicles. Supposedly they had plenty of fuel at takeoff but none on
landing............The wings were removed and the airplane was trucked
home.
Paul_Rosales(at)prodigy.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sealed Nut Plates (was Re: RV-List:----Nice----) |
>I'm not familiar with fuel lube. What exactly is it and where did you get it,
>please?
>Thanks Mal rvbildr(at)juno.com
>
>
Without getting into a discussion again about the merits of this company,
Aircraft Spruce carries fuel lube. It is used as a lubricant/ sealant on
fuel lines.
-Scott N506RV (getting ready for cowl installation)
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Arter <arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu> |
| Subject: | Control Surface Stiffener TEs |
Anyone ever used a product called LEXEL? I'm checking it out as a
substitute for RTV Silicon on the skin stiffener trailing edges. It claims
to stick better to aluminum, and not cause corrosion. Comes in clear and
white and has surprisingly low density. Cost is $5 for 12 oz.
Phil
arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
| Subject: | rv-list: Governor Bracket |
>>I only saw one error in the instructions I got from Van's. but then maybe
>>by now
>>I have a very high threshold for error recognition.
>
>The drawing shows the bracket installed without rotating the rear plate.
>The instructions do mention rotating the rear assembly. They also specify
>which screws hold the bracket on the governor (by the deg. markings on the
>case). These reference points are 60 deg. off.
Ah, yes. They were. Error number two. Actually a little worse than average for
Van's instructions, although they may have been correct at some earlier time for
a different version of the governor. I though about marking them up but haven't
had much luck getting them to fix things like this anyway.
>My main problem was not
>knowing what part of the instructions were wrong and what was correct.
>Remember, this is the first time I'm installing something like this. I
>would have hoped that the instructions/ drawings were reasonably correct.
>
>-Scott I'll quit my complaining and get back to building :)
If you don't complain on here you can't help the other builders. Would have
saved me an hour or so.
FKJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sealed Nut Plates (was Re: RV-List:----Nice----) |
Fuel lube is a sticky paste available in 1 pound cans from aircraft spruce. 1
pound will do about 500 airplanes, or more.
Todd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical conduit cut outs, wing |
> F. Justice says about 2-1`/4 behind the spar and
>1-1/2 below the
> top skin, which puits them in a lightening hole, by my calculations.
I verified my measurements on my wing and they are correct. Assuming Van's has
not moved the lightening holes those measurements will cause the hole to catch
the edge of the stiffening flange for the lightening hole but not come close to
the edge of the hole itself. The measurement is to be made from the forward
flange of the rib, not from the notches made to clear the spar flange strips.
Placing the conduit holes in the top rather than the bottom of the wing is based
on riveting on the top skin first which most builders do in order to get a
better appearance. If you follow my procedure exactly (which is to not install
the five wing-walk area ribs until both skins are riveted on, and to install the
conduit before riveting on the bottom skin) you will need a little space between
the conduit and the rib edges; hence the measurements I have given. Other orders
of build are possible which might make you want to change the conduit location.
Some people like to bring all of their wires out the wing in front of the spar
which means you don't have to route as many wires through the F-604 bulkhead or
spar; I did not have any problem with this, and the area under the seat floor is
handy for locating a terminal strip for tying wing wires to fuselage wires for
easy wing installation and removal.
FKJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
>> I am wondering about how to handle rudder trim when I build my empennage. I
>> have seen several RV-4 and RV-6 examples with rudder trim that looks like
it's
>> been added after the plane is finished and flying. I wonder if there is a
>> good way to tackle this issue befor the rudder is closed up? I notice the
>> RV-8 prototype doesn't have rudder trim, but I don't think I want to count on
>> being lucky and getting it just right without some adjustment.
>
>Most builders get their plane in the air, see what kind of adjustment they
>need, then duct tape an adjustment in place. Repeat until they get it right.
>Some of them actually go back and epoxy the adjustment once it's right, but
>a lot seem to never get around to that part.
>
>-J
>
>--
>Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
There are some builders in this area who are offseting their vertical
stabilizer. The amount of offset is debatable between builders. If you are
interested, I will take a poll at our next builders meeting an post the
results. Those who I have talked to who have applied this technique are
very happy with it. I plan to incorporat it on my 6A.
Ross Mickey
rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marc LeFevre <rv8(at)hpbs2412.boi.hp.com> |
Listers:
I need to buy some clecoes and have heard that both Avery's and
Van's clecoes are good. Since Avery's are $0.01 more apiece I
thought I'd ask if anyone has compared the quality/durability
and has an opinion if one's better than the other (I'm going
to buy a bunch.)
Marc
rv8(at)hpbs2412.boi.hp.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
>Hi all,
>
>I am wondering about how to handle rudder trim when I build my empennage.
Steve: IMHO:
There is probably going to be SOME trim for the rudder that will need to
be added after flight testing. I noticed there was consistant trim tabs
added on ALL of the RV's at THE MECCA. SOOO...I thought why not offset the
vertical stab when installing. I offset it nearly 1/4 inch at the front
spar attachment. And, reading in the May 1994 Sport Aviation, Dean Hall
talked about his offset and wished he had offset it a bit more. But, as
with the rudder trim it is just a by-gusss-and-by-golly thing, I might still
need an external trim tab after flight testing. An adjustable rudder TRIM
tab is (at least) three things; 1:additional weight; 2: additional weight
aft; 3:something else to fail i.e. a complex solution to a simple problem.
Oh, yeah: additional building time.
My $0.02
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Painting inside |
>Help everybody!
>I posted the following msg the other day expecting a deluge of
>advice.
>What did I get? Zilch. Or is it best to paint now and patch up the chips
later?
>>
>> All suggestions gratefully considered.
>>
>> Peter Bennett
>> RV6 the right way up.
>>
Peter:
Paint it now before all the stuff you don't want painted is in the way.
Patch later......or you build one that has side covering, carpeting, kitchen
sink, etc.etc. then you don't have to look at the chips. You 6 guys put all
that stuff in, don't you?:)
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | eilts(at)sg37.dseg.ti.com (Henry Eilts) |
Ross, in regards to offseting the vertical stab, says:
> The amount of offset is debatable between builders. If you are
> interested, I will take a poll at our next builders meeting an post the
> results.
Please do. I am very interested.
Another alternative to the rudder trim solution is some spring arangement
on the control cables a la Piper Cherokees. Anyone have any experience
with this?
Hank Eilts
eilts(at)ti.com
RV6 tail in the mail (on the truck).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terryg(at)SceptreCal.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM |
Ron -- I'm only a little farther on than you (I'm working on the VS now), but if
I were in your shoes, there's a few things that I would think about...none of
these will be particularly easy to implement depending on how much you've
already drilled and riveted, but maybe it helps;
1) You could position the tip ribs of the HS 1/8" further inboard, and then file
off the excess of the rear spar channel that will stick beyond the edge of the
flange of the tip rib. By my calculation, that'd leave the whole HS about 1/4"
shorter than it ought to be. This may be a problem if you have a pre-punched
skin, of course.
2) Leave a space between the 'tongues' on the forward spar channels (near the
HS-610 and -614, to make up the 1/8" you need at each tip.
3) Rebend the flange on the front spar channel (where it attaches to the tip
rib), or perhaps cut if off altogether and rivet on a new flange that makes up
the space.
I can't comment on the structural or aerodynamic integrity of what I've noted
above, only that if it were my problem, there are the things that I would
consider. Hope this helps...regards...
Terry in Calgary
S/N 24414
"Skinning VS"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Johnson, Steve" <spjohnson(at)msmail.mmmg.com> |
>There are some builders in this area who are offseting their vertical
>stabilizer. The amount of offset is debatable between builders. If you are
>interested, I will take a poll at our next builders meeting an post the
>results. Those who I have talked to who have applied this technique are
>very happy with it. I plan to incorporat it on my 6A.
>Ross Mickey
>rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
Ross,
The RV-8 has a balanced rudder, so I don't know how this would apply. I'm
sure the other RV-6 builders would be interested. We'll have to see how it
goes when the first plans built RV-8 gets in the air. Who knows, Van might
even include an offset in the plans for the fuselage? Considering all of the
talk on the list about cracking in control surfaces my inclination right now
is to go with the plans the way they are and worry about it later.
Steve
spjohnson(at)mmm.com
RV-8, empennage ordered today
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting inside |
Paint the interior before you fly, otherwise, you won't want to take it
down long enough to do it later! Realistically, after you have most
things fit, seats, flaps, holes for wiring, fuel lines, intercom..., you
can paint with little risk of scratching when they're reinstalled. Some
things, rudder cables as you mentioned are easier to mask but as a
general rule, I think your paint will come out better with a minimum of
masked obstacles to work around. Make sure you have extra paint because
you will probably still have to do touch up right after you say oops!
----------
From: owner-rv-list[SMTP:owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 1996 1:09 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Painting inside
Help everybody!
I posted the following msg the other day expecting a deluge of
advice.
What did I get? Zilch. Nix. Not a bloody sausage!
Is there nobody out there who has painted an airplane?
I have changed my deodorant. Will that help?
If this doesn't work I'll post under subject title of "Which bandsaw
should I buy?" Then you'll be sorry!
Peter
> I am starting to put various stuff inside the cabin area. At the
> moment it it a beautiful vomit colored green, being primed only. When
> is the best time to paint the inside of the cabin area? Is it best to
> mask rudder cables, fuel fittings, wiring etc, or pull it out to
> paint? Or is it best to paint now and patch up the chips later?
>
> All suggestions gratefully considered.
>
> Peter Bennett
> RV6 the right way up.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pat McClung <pmc123(at)airmail.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting inside |
Peter Bennett wrote:
>
> Help everybody!
> I posted the following msg the other day expecting a deluge of
> advice.
> What did I get? Zilch. Nix. Not a bloody sausage!
> Is there nobody out there who has painted an airplane?
> I have changed my deodorant. Will that help?
> If this doesn't work I'll post under subject title of "Which bandsaw
> should I buy?" Then you'll be sorry!
> Peter
>
> > I am starting to put various stuff inside the cabin area. At the
> > moment it it a beautiful vomit colored green, being primed only. When
> > is the best time to paint the inside of the cabin area? Is it best to
> > mask rudder cables, fuel fittings, wiring etc, or pull it out to
> > paint? Or is it best to paint now and patch up the chips later?
> >
> > All suggestions gratefully considered.
> >
> > Peter Bennett
> > RV6 the right way up.
> >
Here is at least one sausage---I painted one airplane(home built
biplane)--did it in pieces in a homemade paint booth--used Stitz process
all the way thru. It came out acceptable with only one or two pieces I
had to do over--
I WILL NEVER ATTEMPT IT AGAIN, ON ANY KIND OF AIRPLANE, FOR ANY
REASON--
The problems are too numerous to mention but basically, I simply
don't have proper facilities for handling overspray, fresh air, etc and
The "home-made" facilities vs final results are not worth it--to me,
maybe someone else, but not me. I would fly unpainted till I had piled
up enough money to get it done right--shopping around will surprise you
on the prices--RVs are small and if you keep it clean(no wax), painters
will give a pretty good price.
[I did paint the inside of my RV with Stitz while it was on the
Jig and did the floors, etc in pieces on a pretty day outside.]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | eilts(at)sg37.dseg.ti.com (Henry Eilts) |
Phil Arter asks:
>Anyone ever used a product called LEXEL?
Phil,
Who makes it and who sells it?
Hank eilts
eilts(at)ti.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Pedal Placement |
I went into this by looking at a completed 6. I decided that in order to
maintain clearances the blocks could be .75" forward of the plans nominated
location. Being a coward I drilled two sets of holes in the longerons and
also in the support bracket for the middle block so if some later
interference declares itself I can retreat backwards. In addition I have
raised the blocks by .75" in order to help with inadvertant brake
application, this had worked well in the aeroplane I looked at.
Leo Davies
>I need a measurement from a tall 6 or 6A flyer. I would
>like to know the minimum distance from the firewall to the
>foreward edge of the rudder pedal bearing block which will
>still allow full travel of the rudder and brake pedal. I'm
>installing the suspended pedals.
>
>thanks
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
> From owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com Wed Jun 19 13:52:12 1996
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
I have bought both and I like Avery's much better. The ones
that Van's sells are real Cleco brand, but they have a high failure
rate and some of them don't go into a hole as easy. Maybe I just
got some from a bad lot. I don't know.
Chris
>
> Listers:
> I need to buy some clecoes and have heard that both Avery's and
> Van's clecoes are good. Since Avery's are $0.01 more apiece I
> thought I'd ask if anyone has compared the quality/durability
> and has an opinion if one's better than the other (I'm going
> to buy a bunch.)
>
> Marc
> rv8(at)hpbs2412.boi.hp.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Abell <abell(at)rand.org> |
Would someone please explain to me what offsetting the vertical stabilizer
really means? Is it still parallel to the longitudinal axis of the
aircraft? Does offsetting imply an ability to predict the amount of
correction needed? If so, hqow does one do that? I don't understand.
Jack Abell
RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pmbs(at)probe.att.com (Paul M Bilodeau +1 +1 908 957 6611) |
Original-Cc: probe!pmbs
Marc (the cleco man),
even if you buy 500 of the things, the difference will be $5.00 ??
both good quality....like the commercial says....just do it!
my 2c
Paul Bilodeau
pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terryg(at)SceptreCal.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM |
Marc -- I bought mine from Avery and they are of pretty good quality...I'd say
about 1-2% are U/S upon deliverable...that's not bad in my books...hope this
helps...cheers...
Terry in Calgary
S/N 24414
"Skinning VS"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dr. James Tegeler" <RT_JTEGELER(at)GALAXY.WPGATE.GALAXY.dnet.yorkhospital.edu> |
While at Sun-N-Fun '96, I asked Van about adjustable rudder
trim. He was very negative. He first said that it wasn't
needed. Set the fixed trim (if needed) for cruise; the control
pressures for other flight conditions were light and
temporary...
He went on to explain that he was very uncomfortable about
adding additional (and unnecessary in his oppinion) weight to an
unbalanced control surface. He would not recomend it.
Jim
Working on HS, RV-6A. Where do you guys/gals find the time to
keep up with this list & also work on the project ???
James A. Tegeler, M.D.
Radiation Oncology, Suite 94
25 Monument Road
York, PA 17403
Phone: (717) 741-8180
Fax: (717) 741-8196
E-mail: rt_jtegeler(at)yorkhospital.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sealed Nut Plates |
MR PAUL A ROSALES wrote:
> I have also ordered other nutplates including those with dimpled rivet
> holes that I'm using on the fuel tank attach flange.
>
> Paul_Rosales(at)prodigy.com,
> RV-6A Wings (still),
> Lancaster, CA
After many less then satisfactory results installing nut plates in thin
material with less than ideal countersunk holes I tried dimpling some on
my Avery C-frame and it worked like a charm. I don't know why it took
me so long to try the obvious.
Frank Smidler
installing nut plates on 606 bulkhead.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical conduit cut outs, wing |
The string is a good idea. However, all is not lost if your string gets
jerked out before the final wire is fished; shop air and a blow gun will zip
a piece of twine down the conduit like magic. Might not work if the conduit
is already snugly filled with wires (shame on you.)
Bill Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Allison <stevea(at)svpal.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical conduit cut outs, wing |
I've figured out where I want to locate the conduit. My question is, what
is everyone using as a conduit?
Steve Allison
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pat McClung <pmc123(at)airmail.net> |
| Subject: | 16 Years of the RV-ator |
If you do not have a copy, I highly recommend it. There are plenty of
tips and comments. Available through Easy Publishing--$27.95 well
spent.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
>Listers:
>I need to buy some clecoes and have heard that both Avery's and
>Van's clecoes are good.
Marc: I have used Avery's which are up there with the best. IMHO you
should get the BEST you can because there are 13000+ rivets in the beast and
each rivet hole will get a cleco in and out of it at LEAST 20 times...which
means you are going to use the things a LOT. I made the mistake of getting
a batch of those put out by ATS (Aircraft Tool and Supply -> brief aside: as
stated in the list introduction I would not buy ANYTHING from them. I have
had to replace 90% of the tools and clecoes I bought from them. They say
they have changed their cleco design but they're the same old things.) If
you use junk clecoes, half of them will get lost as you will throw them
across the shop in anger. If I hadn't bought ATS fastners I would be done
with my project by now. ;>( I have two containers of clecoes: one for the
good kind which are marked with a black stripe and one for the POJ (pieces
of junk) which I use only if I run out of the good ones.
My $0.02
Michael
mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: Painting inside |
Peter:
You asked:
> I am starting to put various stuff inside the cabin area. At the
> moment it it a beautiful vomit colored green, being primed only. When
> is the best time to paint the inside of the cabin area? Is it best to
> mask rudder cables, fuel fittings, wiring etc, or pull it out to
> paint? Or is it best to paint now and patch up the chips later?
Well, I think the best time to paint is after the basic structure is
finished, but before fuel lines and wiring are installed. I plan to paint
mine just before riveting down the fwd top skin.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
finishing kit on order
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
>
>Would someone please explain to me what offsetting the vertical stabilizer
>really means?
Jack: The vertical stab (among other things) keeps the fuselage from yawing
(fishtailing) and compinsates for engine torque/P factor. In flight, the
engine/P factor tend to make the airplane yaw to the LEFT (in
counter-clockwise rotating engines) so we compensate by applying RIGHT
rudder. This is OK and necessary on takeoff as it is temporary but in cruse
it is bothersome to have to hold constant right rudder. SOOOOOOooooo -> the
fix is to add a trimtab to the rudder to move it to the right OR to allign
the vertical stab a LITTLE to the left of centerline to accomplish the same
thing: more "lift" to the left. Go out to the airport and stand behind an
airplane (taildraggers are easier to see it on) and you'll notice the offset.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen) |
| Subject: | Re: Painting inside |
You wrote:
>
>Help everybody!
>I posted the following msg the other day expecting a deluge of
>advice.
>What did I get? Zilch. Nix. Not a bloody sausage!
>Is there nobody out there who has painted an airplane?
>> mask rudder cables, fuel fittings, wiring etc, or pull it out to
>> paint? Or is it best to paint now and patch up the chips later?
>>
>> Peter Bennett
>> RV6 the right way up.
Peter, now you have done it. Now you will probably get a lot of
sympathy messages like this one.
I am exactly at the same spot with my RV-4. It is primered dark green
inside. I have been wondering about painting the inside too. There
was a chain of info on inside paint a few weeks ago. Did you miss
that? One guy had painted clear over primer to seal it. Here is what
I have decided on mine. At first I thought I would try to find a
really pretty color like baby blue to go with my outside yellow paint
job which I am planning. I didn't really want epoxy paint because of
the confined space to paint. The guy at the auto paint store suggested
lacquer. However, I was told that would scratch easy. Then I saw a
new RV-6 where he put on some inside cloth to cover all the walls. If
you do that then it doesn't matter what color it is underneath. Here
are my conclusions.
1. You want a relatively dark color or it will reflect off the canopy.
If you don't believe me just put a white piece of paper on your
dashboard in your car on a sunny day and see the glare and reflection.
However, I think black is too dark and will absorb too much heat.
2. If you plan to cover it with interior cloth, then leave it primer.
3. I am going to paint Marhide grey primer over my green primer.
Primer is porous and not as durable as imron but if you ever need a
touch-up, it is very easy. I plan to paint the instrument panel a
different pretty (dark) color. (I can take that outside and paint it).
Now I know grey is not a very exciting color. However, I think it is
very functional.
Peter Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com
_______________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical conduit cut outs, wing |
I'd like to add my 2 cents worth to this conduit location
thing. Put the conduit anywhere in the main ribs you like.
I chose the top part of the wing so it would not interfere
with the inspection plate. If you do a good job of locating
each hole you can skin the wing and simply "bull nose" each
length of conduit and push it through a finished wing from
either the tip or root end. That way you don't have to
worry about budking rivets around the conduit. I used a
piece of 5/8" O.C. pvc and drilled the holes with a unibit.
chet
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
Ross, I'd be interested in your rudder offset research.
chet razer: finished riveting aft side and bottom skins,
finish kit ordered 3 weeks now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PAUL_ROSALES(at)prodigy.com (MR PAUL A ROSALES) |
| Subject: | Re:Type of Conduit Used... |
-- [ From: Paul A. Rosales * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] --
> I've figured out where I want to locate the conduit. My question is,
what
> is everyone using as a conduit?
>
> Steve Allison
>
>
>
I'm using the black, riser flex pipe used in sprinkler systems (5/8" OD,
1/2" ID) available at Home Depot etc.
Paul_Rosales(at)prodigy.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rion Bourgeois <RION(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical conduit cut outs, wing |
>I'd like to add my 2 cents worth to this conduit location
>thing. Put the conduit anywhere in the main ribs you like.
>I chose the top part of the wing so it would not interfere
>with the inspection plate. If you do a good job of locating
>each hole you can skin the wing and simply "bull nose" each
>length of conduit and push it through a finished wing from
>either the tip or root end. That way you don't have to
>worry about budking rivets around the conduit. I used a
>piece of 5/8" O.C. pvc and drilled the holes with a unibit.
>
>chet
>
>
I used black plastic irrigation pipe which has a thinner wall and is lighter
than PVC. However, it tends to curl, so I couldn't just push it through the
wing. I found a straight length of dowel that was a tight fit into the
conduit (use it to clean my shotguns), and tapered the outer end. Then it
was easy to push the conduit through because the tapered end of the dowel
found and followed the holes in the ribs. Note that I made a jig with a #30
starter hole to locate the hole in each rib in the same spot, then enlarged
them to take the conduit with a Unibit. This way, the holes all lined up.
Rion.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bennett" <bennett(at)healey.com.au> |
| Subject: | Painting inside - summary |
Well after my slight emotional breakdown, I did get a deluge of
responses about when to paint inside the cabin area, both on the list
and privately. Seems thosewho have done it would do it before fitting
the bitty pieces. Damn.... means I have to decide on colours.
Thanks to all who responded, including those who seemed concerned
about my health. I'll be fine as soon as those pink elephants go
away.........
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
Putting stuff in fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sealed Nut Plates |
>After many less then satisfactory results installing nut plates in thin
>material with less than ideal countersunk holes I tried dimpling some on
>my Avery C-frame and it worked like a charm. I don't know why it took
>me so long to try the obvious.
>
>Frank Smidler
>installing nut plates on 606 bulkhead.
>
>
>
Frank,
Have you tried using "cheater rivets" for the nut plates? I got the "oops"
rivet kit from avery (1/8" shank with AN426AD3-XX heads and 3/32" shank with
smaller heads) and find it very useful. The smaller heads on the 3/32"
rivets come in real handy when installing nut plates in thin material. Just
a few turns with a de-burring tool and you have a countersink. I wouldn't
worry about loss of strength. The rivets are there to prevent the plate nut
from spinning while installing the screw. I only use these rivets when the
material is too thin for a c/s (seat ribs, baggage bulkhead, etc).
-Scott N506RV
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | adjustable rudder trim |
On Foyboy 5 I have a MAC servo mounted in a "U" shaped channel, bent up from
.040 AL, secured in the fibreglass bottom rudder cover. I used a long
threaded rod that fit the MAC servo and bent an offset in the rod to clear
the aft end of the rudder fairing. Then I pop riveted a piece of hinge to the
rudder approximately five inches long. I later added a piece of .040 1-1/2"
wide by five inches long to the hinge for more authority. I find myself using
the rudder trim on long climb outs and long descents. With 180 hp and a
constant speed prop the trim changes are very noticeable. The rudder trim and
elevator trim are on a hat switch on the stick. A picture of the rudder trim
is on John Hovan's home page on the world wide web. Hope this helps.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov> |
Would someone please explain to me what offsetting the vertical
stabilizer
really means? Is it still parallel to the longitudinal axis of the
aircraft? Does offsetting imply an ability to predict the amount of
correction needed? If so, hqow does one do that? I don't understand.
Jack Abell
RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
Offsetting the vertical stab is a means to make the airplane fly straight
dispite all of the other forced trying to make it fly crooked. The
problem is, the required yawing force changes dramatically with airspeed
and power settings (even CG, fuel, and GW). Most designers apply
corrections so the airplane trims at cruise. Some of these include
offset engine mounts and permanently offset VS. This means the vertical
is not parallel to the longitudinal axis. Many Wichita airplanes use a
couple of degrees of offset. Look on the ramp and it is sometimes even
visible. In any case, offsetting things is always a compromise.
Predicting the exact, required offset is not realistically possible.
Building tolerences are a major factor and it is very easy to have
minute angular errors that will change everything. A macroscopic
correction that previous builders have developed empirically may give one
an indication of a good place to start, assuming everything else is
straight.
My personal, very biased opinion (and my personal experience in my RV-4),
is that Dick has done an extremely good job setting up the RV's
(including the offset engine mount), and you are probably better off
attempting to build the airplane straight, then make minor corrections
using rudder trim during flight testing. The alternative may be
aggravating an out of trim condition due to an already crooked airplane.
I don't see the rudder trim as a major issue. Very few Wichita single
engine airplanes have a moveable rudder tab, but most have a fixed tab.
A fixed tab can be easily installed after the airplane has flown. You
aren't going to eliminate slight out of trim conditions no matter what
you do. The rudder forces in the RV's are light, simply resting your
foot on the pedal will change the rudder trim significantly. So if you
find you need to put a fixed tab on the rudder during flight test, you
might sacrifice .00001 knots during cruise. At least by then you'll know
that your making the trim change in the correct direction.
Mitch Robbins
RV-4 flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Governor Bracket |
I had a few requests for the needed corrections to Van's instructions for
installing the prop governor bracket. This is what finally worked for me
after cursing Van's, pulling my hair out, calling Van's and redoing the
installation twice. This installation is on an RV-6A with a new O-320 and
new Woodward governor. I still haven't installed the cable yet, but there
should be no problems.
1. Drawing VA-153 Install(5/22/95) has one major error. The end view (top
left of the drawing) shows the "main body" of the governor as vertical.
When installed, the main body of the governor will be rotated about 60 deg.
clockwise. The top view (lower left of the drawing) should also have been
drawn to show the main body rotated (not vertical). If the bracket is
installed as shown, it will go right through the oil filter.
The following refers to the one page printed instructions (5/22/95):
2. The six rear screws are loosened AND REMOVED, to allow the aft housing
and control arm to be rotated. The instructions say to rotated the aft
housing until the arm points to the 270 deg. mark. It will actually point
to the 260 deg. mark.
3. Install the screws at the 0, 60, 120, 180, 240, and 300 deg mark as per
the instructions.
4. Tighten the screws at the 0, 60, and 300 deg. mark. The locations given
in the instructions are WRONG.
5. Remove the screws at the 120, 180 and 240 deg mark. The locations given
in the instructions are WRONG.
6. Install the VA-153 bracket at these locations and install and tighten
the screws (18-22 in-pounds) and safety wire.
7. Van's instructions say, "The posts cast on the rear of the governor ,
which hold the stop-screws, should be in a direct line with the center of
the slot in the VA-153. This places the arm of the governor approximately
perpendicular to the cable....." This should say, "A line draw from post to
post on the rear housing should be PARALLEL to the center line of the slot."
The arm is NOT perpendicular to the cable, it is at a 45 deg angle (approx.)
as per dwg VA-153 Install when the arm is at it's stop.
8. Follow the remainder of Van's instructions.
The only purpose of this post is to alert other builders who might be in the
same boat as me of a few technical inaccuracies in Van's instructions. The
bracket is very well made, along with everything else in the kit.
Any comments are welcomed. BTW, I am faxing a copy of this to Van's.
-Scott N506RV (about to start on cowl)
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Electrical conduit cut outs, wing |
Text item:
>I've figured out where I want to locate the conduit. My question is, what
>is everyone using as a conduit?
Not a good way to phrase the question. No two RV builders use the same thing.
It's kind of an unwritten rule.
Considering durability (resistance to heat and vibration), availability, cost,
ease of installation (you can push through after the wing is riveted), ease of
getting wires through, and weight leads you to CPVC pipe (the light tan stuff in
building supply stores, used for hot water pipes). Slightly higher cost is
thin-walled aluminum pipe. There are about 20 other things you could use which
may or may not be as good.
To be absolutely sure the rib will not chafe through it and dig into the wires
the conduit should be put in before the second skin is put on so that it can be
sealed at each rib with RTV, Pro-Seal, etc.
FKJ
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Subject: Re: RV-List: Electrical conduit cut outs, wing
From: Steve Allison <svpal.org!stevea(at)matronics.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 20:43:07 -0700 (PDT)
4.1)
(8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA28655 for ; Wed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical conduit cut outs, wing |
At 06:47 AM 6/20/96 GMT, you wrote:
>I used black plastic irrigation pipe which has a thinner wall and is lighter
>than PVC. However, it tends to curl, so I couldn't just push it through the
>wing. I found a straight length of dowel that was a tight fit into the
>conduit (use it to clean my shotguns), and tapered the outer end. Then it
>was easy to push the conduit through because the tapered end of the dowel
>found and followed the holes in the ribs. Note that I made a jig with a #30
>starter hole to locate the hole in each rib in the same spot, then enlarged
>them to take the conduit with a Unibit. This way, the holes all lined up.
>Rion.
>
This is one benefit of PVC, the holes don't have to line up.
Ross Mickey
rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KEVINFLY(at)aol.com |
Please take me off this list.
Thank You
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
One of the 1995 back issues of my newsletter had an article and a description
of a rudder trim system that is cockpit adjustable. It is simple and light
weight. With it you can be in trim at all times, not just in cruise. It
also has the advantage that the rudder cables are held taught by opposing
springs so the rudder can't bang from stop to stop in the wind when parked.
There was also a discussion of ofsetting the Vertical Stab and Bill
Benedict's thoughts on the matter. 1995 back issues are available for $5.00.
A subscription is $5.00 per year and 1996 subscribers will get the 1996 back
issues. If you are interested in the back issues or a new subscription, send
me an E-Mail and I will send you the back issues for the years that you want.
Your check can cross the newsletters in the snail mail. I offer a money
back guarantee if you don't think that they are worth it. So far, its never
happened.
Jim Cone, Editor
Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing
422 Savannah Ridge Drive
St. Charles, MO 63303
(314) 928-8703 FAX (314) 447-8803
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electrical conduit cut outs, wing |
| From: | "Calin Brabandt" <cwbraban(at)ichips.intel.com> |
> I've figured out where I want to locate the conduit. My question is, what
> is everyone using as a conduit?
>
> Steve Allison
Steve, et all,
I installed a conduit along a straight path from root to tip. I didn't
want to thread it though small holes cut in the ribs, so I made up a
bunch of mounting tabs from .032 stock (.025 would probably work
okay too). I marked the tab outlines on a sheet of aluminum. Then I
drilled a hole in each tab with a unibit to a diameter just slightly
greater than the conduit. I cut out the tabs with snips, threaded the
conduit through the tabs and along the lightening holes in my wings.
Finally, I riveted a tab to each wing rib with two rivets with the conduit
already in place. The conduit thus hangs from the rib in the space of
the lightening hole, but it's held right up against the edge of the
lightening hole.
To pull my wires, I plan to connect my shop vac to one end of the conduit
and suck a string down its length. I bought the conduit from Van's.
It's about 5/8" diameter and has little corrugations in it which not
only make it more flexible, but they help hold it in the mounting brackets.
Cal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
>I would like to be removed from the mailing list since it takes to long to
go
>through and read and delete the same questions that are asked over and over
>again largely from the same person.
>
Nothing like being flamed on the way out. Hey, maybe we won't let you out.
Eric Henson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | csanchez(at)BayNetworks.com (Cheryl Sanchez) |
| Subject: | More engine questions |
Hi,
I, too, am at the stage where I am about to start hooking up
all the engine connections. Here are a couple of questions.
1) Is there a special fitting that goes in the primer ports on the engine?
My engine is a O-360-A1A. Some people are recommending aluminum and some
copper for the primer lines. Which is best?
2) What type of control cables are used and how do they connect to the
various arms? I have a great cable for the throttle with a 10/32 threaded
end and the bracket that Van sells for attaching it to the carberator.
I guess I just put a rod end bearing on the end of the cable and attach
that to the throttle arm? Same thing for the mixture and prop? I am
going to install a constant-speed prop and I have a Woodward governer.
Sometimes all this stuff seems so confusing. There sure is a lot
to learn. Thanks in advance for any replies.
Cheryl Sanchez
csanchez(at)world.std.com
installing engine and instruments
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
You wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>I would like to be removed from the mailing list since it takes to
>>long to go through and read and delete the same questions that are
>>asked over and over again largely from the same person.
>>
>
>Nothing like being flamed on the way out. Hey, maybe we won't let you
>out.
>
>Eric Henson
>
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA . . . Darn, I think he just deleted me! And I
wasn't finished laughing!
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
Boy Howdy Ed,
You've sure got company in that room. I will certainly document and digest
the replys you receive on this well put question. By the way since I've been
on the list I have learned volumes from your replys and questions (yeah, I'm
one of those guys who can't hear a question too many times; thick scull) so
what is inadequacy to one, is guru status to another. Well done and keep it
up, my RV depends on it.
Eric Henson
Painting wifes car, somebody shoot me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Reply Seperator <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>> It seems that just when I start understanding something (usually not
until AFTER
it's finished) something else pops up that makes me feel woefully
inadequate...<<<<<<<<<<<
--Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
Jim --
I just did the hardest part of sending you a check for the newsletter: getting
your address on an envelope. Please expect in the mail a check for the 1996
newsletter subscription.
Unless you object before I mail it, I'm going to make the check out for $10
to cover 1997, too. If you do object, but I find out too late to not mail
the enlarged check, then send 1995. But I'd rather just prepay for 1997.
However, don't mail me anything until you receive my check -- there isn't a
check in the envolope or a stamp on the envelope, so there's a lot of room
for it to get lost :-)
Address will on the envelope and in my .sig below. You can omit the company
name -- we're operating out of our house.
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sierchio(at)groucho.boi.noaa.gov |
Fellow Listers,
My name is Mike Sierchio and I've been lurking around for several
months. I've asked for and received help from some of you on
various topics for which I'm grateful. I figure it's time I
introduced myself.
Tonight I'm driving from Boise to Mecca (AKA Van's) so that
tomorrow I can pick up my empennage kit, get a tour of the place
and Wx permitting get a ride in the demo A/C. I plan to stick
around for the fly-in at Scappoose on Saturday.
As yet, I haven't decided whether I'll be building the 6 or 6A, but
I'm told there's time to make up my mind. I like the 8 too, but in
order to keep my wife favorably inclined toward the project, SBS
seating is a must.
I'm currently a Development Meteorologist for the National Weather
Service. I've got about 900 hours TT, of which about 600 are in
military transport helicopters. I have absolutely no experience in
metal working or aircraft construction whatsoever, so I expect to
be asking some "dumb" questions. I'll try to use the archives as
much as possible and hopefully won't drive too many of you off the
list.
Thanks to the tips of Bill Costello, I've managed to get my
N-number reserved. So, someday in 5 or 10 years, when you're at
some fly-in, if you see N63MS, come over and say hi.
This list is great! Thanks Matt.
Regards,
Mike
====================================================================
Mike Sierchio NIFC-National Weather Service
sierchio(at)groucho.boi.noaa.gov 3833 S. Development Ave., Bldg 3807
(208) 334-9824 Boise, ID 83705-5354
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
>Please take me off this list.
>
>Thank You
>
>
Kevin...you have to send e-mail to rv-list-request(at)matronics.com with
UNSUBSCRIBE in the message body.
So, how's the Glastar coming along since the sheet-metal course at Chino? I
hope you decided to go with the flush rivets .
I made the trip out to sun'n'fun...where I discovered Glastar's price had
been raised to $23,500. Van's introduced the RV-6 Quickbuild kit (95%
completed airframe) for $19,500. That made the decision...I bought serial
#10. Hope to be flying it by Christmas '97.
Take care.
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KHarrill(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical conduit cut outs, wing |
If you plan to install a wing tip antenna, do you need two conduits, one
for the high voltage strobe cable and one for the antenna cable?????
Ken Harrill
RV - 6, wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Nut Plates et al -- company info |
Hi Folks,
There was a recent message referring to dimpled, etc. nutplates from a
company in Paso Robles, CA. Part of the address was missing. I called
the company and, if anyone is interested, the info follows. BTW, they
tell you that there catalog is a 257 page 'reference manual'. They
charge $10 for it (check -- don't take credit cards).
Genuine Aircraft Hardware Co.
4250 Aerotech Ctr Way #B <-- that is #B as in Bravo
Paso Robles, CA 93446
805-239-3169
Best regards,
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
> I have absolutely no experience in
> metal working or aircraft construction whatsoever, so I expect to
> be asking some "dumb" questions.
Mike (and other lurkers) --
Most of the people building would probably say the same thing. This is a
great airplane to build, and the support network is wonderful. Don't be
afraid to ask questions -- as you see from the various replies, there are
always several people who are having the same problem you are.
Of course, my idiot mistakes are surely unique :-) (But I just got the
left elevator to fit *properly* this time. Hurray! Thanks for the help
everyone.)
Wings arrived today! Now I have to figure out if they'll make it into
(and more importantly, out of) my basement. Otherwise it's back to
mosquitoe-land AKA the frozen tundra (depending upon season) AKA the
garage.
-J
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: More engine questions |
Here are a couple of questions.
>
>1) Is there a special fitting that goes in the primer ports on the engine?
>My engine is a O-360-A1A. Some people are recommending aluminum and some
>copper for the primer lines. Which is best?
>
>2) What type of control cables are used and how do they connect to the
>various arms? I have a great cable for the throttle with a 10/32 threaded
>end and the bracket that Van sells for attaching it to the carberator.
>I guess I just put a rod end bearing on the end of the cable and attach
>that to the throttle arm? Same thing for the mixture and prop? I am
>going to install a constant-speed prop and I have a Woodward governer.
>
>Cheryl Sanchez
Cheryl:
My 4 has an 0-360 A1A and a C/S prop and I remember all too well trying to
find people that had already done it...... so here's my 2 cents worth.
I did not install primers at all. I've never had a problem getting mine to
fire and I live where it does get cold. If you do use them, you need to get
primer fittings and most use copper line.
Cables are attached with rod ends and capture washers. Plan the cable route
to avoid conflicts. You may find full travel will be a problem on the
mixture and the prop. The Tutthill cables vary in travel depending on how
they are made. I had a friend, (Jim Winings RV-4 180 c/s) get my prop cable
made and he
stood there while the guy made it up. Don't tell the cable maker it's for
an airplane or they may not make them. You can order custom lenghts from
Van's. My first one didn't have enough travel.
You may find the VA126 bracket doesn't work well with the big carb on the
360. You have to "make it work"
with a little bending and whatever. You know the routine. I attached an
exstension to hold the mixture cable and supported the whole thing from the
back of the engine sump. It works well.
I made my own governor bracket out of .063 angle and plate, Van didn't make
anything back when I was building. I guess you follwed the recent discussion
on governors. You do have to rotate the control arm.
Make sure you can get the necessary travel.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mfaatz(at)SagentTech.com (Mitch Faatz) |
| Subject: | Measuring tip for beginners |
Use a compass to find the centerline of objects.
I had a heck of a time measuring the centerline of the rear spars. I
would lay my center-finding ruler over the two edges, move it to exactly
center, and looking down with my eye perpendicular to the
center point I would pen a mark. Do a whole bunch of these down the
spar, lay out a ruler to connect
the dots and DANG, what's going on here? Using a precise ruler and
taking all the time in the world,
these things should all line up. I'm pretty anal retentive and this was
driving me up a wall, so here is
my new improved method:
Lay a ruler perpendicular to the centerline you are trying to find.
Place the compass needle on the
spar edge (in this case) and against the ruler. Draw a light arc around
the center area. Do the same
on the other side. Where the arcs intersect is where the centerline is.
Make several of these and
connect the dots. Using the center-finding ruler is less than optimal
because moving your head just
an inch or two from side to side shows just how much error there is in
this method. You can't
consistently place your eyeball perpendicular to the center mark on the
ruler.
A few people are these parts found this information slightly helpful, so
don't flame me for being
"too basic".
-Mitch
Rear empennage spar completed, RV-6A (probably)
Q / cut here
-------------O-\-------------------------------------------------------
Mitchell Faatz mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com
Software Engineering Manager
Sagent Technology, Inc. (415) 614-6826
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nut Plate Installation |
>>After many less then satisfactory results installing nut plates in thin
>>material with less than ideal countersunk holes I tried dimpling some on
>>my Avery C-frame and it worked like a charm. I don't know why it took
>>me so long to try the obvious.
>>
>>Frank Smidler
>Frank,
>
>Have you tried using "cheater rivets" for the nut plates? I got the "oops"
>rivet kit from avery (1/8" shank with AN426AD3-XX heads and 3/32" shank with
>smaller heads) and find it very useful. The smaller heads on the 3/32"
>rivets come in real handy when installing nut plates in thin material. Just
>a few turns with a de-burring tool and you have a countersink. I wouldn't
>worry about loss of strength. The rivets are there to prevent the plate nut
>from spinning while installing the screw. I only use these rivets when the
>material is too thin for a c/s (seat ribs, baggage bulkhead, etc).
>
>-Scott N506RV
>scottg(at)villagenet.com
Scott, Gota go with Frank on this one. Since the nut plates are drilled
#40, I'm confused as to the use of 1/8" rivets. Material thinner than .032"
is too thin to machine countersink. IMHO, dimpling the sheet and using the
method that Frank describes to dimple the nut plates is the way to go. This
would give the strongest structure and would be self-aligning to a certain
extent. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting inside |
>>Help everybody!
>>I posted the following msg the other day expecting a deluge of
>>advice.
>>What did I get? Zilch. Or is it best to paint now and patch up the chips
>later?
>>>
>>> All suggestions gratefully considered.
>>>
>>> Peter Bennett
>>> RV6 the right way up.
>>>
>
>Peter:
>Paint it now before all the stuff you don't want painted is in the way.
>Patch later......or you build one that has side covering, carpeting, kitchen
>sink, etc.etc. then you don't have to look at the chips. You 6 guys put all
>that stuff in, don't you?:)
>Regards:
>Rusty Gossard
>N47RG RV-4 Flying
Rusty, That's because we can! If I can ever haul anything for you, let me
know.
Bob "RV-6" Skinner
Peter, I had primed the inside parts with Vari Prime before assembly. When
ready to paint, I roughed up the surface with Scotch Brite, shot a tack coat
of primer and then the finish coat (Durethane). At this point, the
instrument panel was painted and everything installed in it but the panel
was on the bench. Also, I hadn't riveted on the front top skin. When I do
it again, I'll use a remote (2 quart) pot instead of the 1 quart can on the
gun. The gun with the pot on the bottom gets heavey after awhile and
prevents easy access to some nooks and crannies. After the paint had cured,
I covered areas that I thought would be subject to abuse, i.e., fuselage
side rails, with a kind of vinyl coated shelf paper. I stuck the sticky
side on an old army blanket to "fuzz" it up a little so it wouldn't stick
too well. I masked off things not to be painted, fittings, seat bottom
hinges, etc. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
>I am wondering about how to handle rudder trim when I build my empennage. I
>have seen several RV-4 and RV-6 examples with rudder trim that looks like it's
>been added after the plane is finished and flying. I wonder if there is a
>good way to tackle this issue befor the rudder is closed up? I notice the
>RV-8 prototype doesn't have rudder trim, but I don't think I want to count on
>being lucky and getting it just right without some adjustment.
>
>Steve Johnson
Steve, I thought about putting a rudder trim similar to the one that I had
on my Maule. It was a control cable ("T" handle, twist lock) that only put
in right rudder. It had a spring connect to the rudder cable so that the
rudders could still be used. This set up came in real handy on long climbs
with the 235 hp Maule. I finally took the easy way out and used a tab on
the RV. Might put one on the RV I'm building now, though. Then everyone
will think I built a really straight airplane:)
I test flew my RV-6 unpainted so it was easy to experiment with size and
location of tabs. I tried the flush, wedge type and the tab that extends
aft of the trailing edge of the rudder. On my plane, I found that either
tab was more effective placed higher on the rudder. You could get by with a
smaller tab at this location. I put the tab on (not the wedge) because it
took a smaller tab and I can adjust it. I thought maybe that the aircraft
would trim differently after painting or if I decided to switch props. I
was right on both counts and it was easy to adjust, whereas the fixed wedge
type would not be easy to adjust. I painted mine seperate from the rudder
and glued it on with silicon. I didn't know how well this would work, so
made a paper template of the tab and wrote the degrees of bend on it and
placed this in my RV-6 file just in case it might come off in flight. Bob
Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Morrissey <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting inside |
Hi All,
The last couple of RV's I've worked on, we painted the inside with a light
Blue-grey epoxy paint. On the floor we laid fire resistant carpet with
underlay. This cuts down the noise dramatically. The reason for the light
coloured paint - it gets hot here - damn hot!! so dark colours are a no -
no. The Epoxy paint is very tough and wear resistant. But be careful to take
reasonable precautions with respirators when using it.
John Morrissey
RV4 under construction
>You wrote:
>>
>>Help everybody!
>>I posted the following msg the other day expecting a deluge of
>>advice.
>>What did I get? Zilch. Nix. Not a bloody sausage!
>>Is there nobody out there who has painted an airplane?
>
>>> mask rudder cables, fuel fittings, wiring etc, or pull it out to
>>> paint? Or is it best to paint now and patch up the chips later?
>>>
>
>>> Peter Bennett
>>> RV6 the right way up.
>Peter, now you have done it. Now you will probably get a lot of
>sympathy messages like this one.
>
>I am exactly at the same spot with my RV-4. It is primered dark green
>inside. I have been wondering about painting the inside too. There
>was a chain of info on inside paint a few weeks ago. Did you miss
>that? One guy had painted clear over primer to seal it. Here is what
>I have decided on mine. At first I thought I would try to find a
>really pretty color like baby blue to go with my outside yellow paint
>job which I am planning. I didn't really want epoxy paint because of
>the confined space to paint. The guy at the auto paint store suggested
>lacquer. However, I was told that would scratch easy. Then I saw a
>new RV-6 where he put on some inside cloth to cover all the walls. If
>you do that then it doesn't matter what color it is underneath. Here
>are my conclusions.
>1. You want a relatively dark color or it will reflect off the canopy.
> If you don't believe me just put a white piece of paper on your
>dashboard in your car on a sunny day and see the glare and reflection.
>However, I think black is too dark and will absorb too much heat.
>2. If you plan to cover it with interior cloth, then leave it primer.
>3. I am going to paint Marhide grey primer over my green primer.
>Primer is porous and not as durable as imron but if you ever need a
>touch-up, it is very easy. I plan to paint the instrument panel a
>different pretty (dark) color. (I can take that outside and paint it).
>Now I know grey is not a very exciting color. However, I think it is
>very functional.
>Peter Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com
>_______________________________________________
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Morrissey
CSIRO ITS
Communications Section
Phone:- 06 2766811
Fax:- 06 2766617
Mobile:- 018 628804
Email:- John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au
CSIRO ---- AUSTRALIA'S SCIENCE, AUSTRALIA'S FUTURE!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pat McClung <pmc123(at)airmail.net> |
groucho.boi.noaa.gov!sierchio(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Fellow Listers,
>
> My name is Mike Sierchio and I've been lurking around for several
> months. I've asked for and received help from some of you on
> various topics for which I'm grateful. I figure it's time I
> introduced myself.
>
> Tonight I'm driving from Boise to Mecca (AKA Van's) so that
> tomorrow I can pick up my empennage kit, get a tour of the place
> and Wx permitting get a ride in the demo A/C. I plan to stick
> around for the fly-in at Scappoose on Saturday.
>
> As yet, I haven't decided whether I'll be building the 6 or 6A, but
> I'm told there's time to make up my mind. I like the 8 too, but in
> order to keep my wife favorably inclined toward the project, SBS
> seating is a must.
>
> I'm currently a Development Meteorologist for the National Weather
> Service. I've got about 900 hours TT, of which about 600 are in
> military transport helicopters. I have absolutely no experience in
> metal working or aircraft construction whatsoever, so I expect to
> be asking some "dumb" questions. I'll try to use the archives as
> much as possible and hopefully won't drive too many of you off the
> list.
>
> Thanks to the tips of Bill Costello, I've managed to get my
> N-number reserved. So, someday in 5 or 10 years, when you're at
> some fly-in, if you see N63MS, come over and say hi.
>
> This list is great! Thanks Matt.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike
>
> ====================================================================
> Mike Sierchio NIFC-National Weather Service
> sierchio(at)groucho.boi.noaa.gov 3833 S. Development Ave., Bldg 3807
> (208) 334-9824 Boise, ID 83705-5354
Mike, most of us are "first time sheetmetal builders" and felt just as
apprehensive as you are about undertaking the project--Don't back out!
The support and encouragement you find everywhere is unbelieveable.
It's a long road but only one rivet at a time so hang in there--You will
join the RV-Grin group before you realize it.
While you are at it , can you do something about the heat we are
having in north Texas??? You could make a lot of friends in this area.
Stay in touch and ask lots of questions. Pat (N3XM)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Nut Plate Installation |
Bob:
Read Scott's message carefully -- the "oops" rivet kit comes with both
1/8" shank, reduced head rivets AND --> 3/32" shank <--, reduced head
rivets. The 3/32" shank rivets are the ones he's talking about, they're
just a regular small rivet, with an even smaller head. Calling them
"oops" rivets is a bit misleading, since you can't use them when drilling
a hole oversized, but they can be used to fix other "oops"es. For example
they're really nice when you drill a hole in the wrong place since they can
be installed so that they're almost invisible.
I've used both methods for installing nut plates, but I almost always use
the 3/32" reduced head rivets just cause it's so easy and simple --just one
shallow machine c-sink and you're done.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
>
> >>After many less then satisfactory results installing nut plates in thin
> >>material with less than ideal countersunk holes I tried dimpling some on
> >>my Avery C-frame and it worked like a charm. I don't know why it took
> >>me so long to try the obvious.
> >>
> >>Frank Smidler
>
> >Frank,
> >
> >Have you tried using "cheater rivets" for the nut plates? I got the "oops"
> >rivet kit from avery (1/8" shank with AN426AD3-XX heads and 3/32" shank with
> >smaller heads) and find it very useful. The smaller heads on the 3/32"
> >rivets come in real handy when installing nut plates in thin material.
> [snip!]
> >-Scott N506RV
> >scottg(at)villagenet.com
>
> Scott, Gota go with Frank on this one. Since the nut plates are drilled
> #40, I'm confused as to the use of 1/8" rivets. Material thinner than .032"
> is too thin to machine countersink. IMHO, dimpling the sheet and using the
> method that Frank describes to dimple the nut plates is the way to go. This
> would give the strongest structure and would be self-aligning to a certain
> extent. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
After seeing several comments on fuel lube, it occurs to me that it would
be foolish for everyone to buy a 1 lb. can for $16.00 as this is a more than
life time supply. I would be willing to send a small amount of fuel lube
(enough to do a few RV's) out of my can if I can recover cost, postage, etc.
I don't know how to package it. It's really sticky and messy. (Must be a
distant relative of ProSeal) I'll see if I can work some into a plastic
envelope, or something. Any of you that have worked with it in the past,
drop me a note if you have an idea on the best way to package it. This is
what I used on my RV and it has worked well so far (280 hours). If anyone
is interested, respond off-list to me at BSkinner(at)ltec.net
Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan and Myrna Toupal" <DMToupal(at)msn.com> |
Boy, they get it for free and they still whine. Let's charge him for the info
. . .
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Henson, Eric
Sent: Monday, June 17, 1996 1:40 AM
Subject: FW: RV-List: Remove
>I would like to be removed from the mailing list since it takes to long to
go
>through and read and delete the same questions that are asked over and over
>again largely from the same person.
>
Nothing like being flamed on the way out. Hey, maybe we won't let you out.
Eric Henson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
. There is a real handy one on top
>of a horizontal protuberance above the right rear (#3) cylinder if in fact
>that is a "pressure spot". This appendage has a castle nut threaded on part
>way with a roll pin to lock it. What is this for?
>
>I'm planning on istalling an electronic tach, and I understand it connects to
>one the 'P' leads. In Tony's book he reccomends installing a 16 amp fuse in
>line to the tach to prevent a failure from shorting out the mag. Has anyone
>done this? How does a fuse prevent shorting of the mag? If the tach shorts
>out does that blow the fuse and render the 'P' lead ungroundable?
>--Ed Bundy
Ed, I believe that most builders are picking up their oil presure from a
fitting located close to the upper right Dynafocal mount (looking at the aft
of the engine) I believe this takes a 45 degree AN fitting and this fitting
is impossible (?) to put in after the engine is bolted to the airframe. Be
sure to use restrictor fittings on oil pressure and fuel pressure fittings.
On the tach, (won't help you, but might be of interest to other builders)
I used the Braal tach. It works very well, but I won't put one on the RV
I'm building now. It took for ever to clean, prep and lay out, mask and
paint 30 alternating black and white squares on the aft face of the ring
gear. Like five or six hours. If something ever happens to that ring
gear---- Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More engine questions |
>1) Is there a special fitting that goes in the primer ports on the engine?
>My engine is a O-360-A1A. Some people are recommending aluminum and some
>copper for the primer lines. Which is best?
>
>2) What type of control cables are used and how do they connect to the
>various arms? I have a great cable for the throttle with a 10/32 threaded
>end and the bracket that Van sells for attaching it to the carberator.
>I guess I just put a rod end bearing on the end of the cable and attach
>that to the throttle arm? Same thing for the mixture and prop? I am
>going to install a constant-speed prop and I have a Woodward governer.
>Cheryl Sanchez
>csanchez(at)world.std.com
>installing engine and instruments
Cheryl, As far as I know, all primer fittings are made for this purpose. I
think they are brass. They have probe that sticks into the cylinder and has
a couple of small drilled holes in the end. From what I could gather, most
people prefer copper lines. Purists would tell you that they should be
annealed every couple of annuals or so. Vibration tends to work harden
them. Don't forget the vibration loop when going from the engine to the
firewall. Tony's books has some good info on the above. Some builders (me
included) are using electric primer solinoids to eleminate two primer lines,
primer and attendant connections from inside the cockpit.
Your mixture and throttle cables should be rigid with the engine. (Can't
tell you about prop controls, yet) I didn't like the vernier type of
throttle that Van includes in his kit. I prefer a regular push/pull
throttle wih a friction lock. With a vernier, if you need to grab a
hand-full of throttle (such as a go-round) and miss the button, you could be
doomed to disappointment. Because I used a different throttle cable (ACS or
Wicks), Van's attach plate would not work, so I made one similar to it. I
also used this plate, which extends aft of the carb, to mount some rubber
belting for attaching the exhaust pipes. When attaching your rod end to the
throttle control arm, don't forget to place a large area washer on the side
of the rod end away from the throttle arm (for retention should the rod end
bearing fail).
For mixture, I used the rachet, red-knobbed cable with a wire that crimps
in a bug nut on the mixture control arm. I had bought one of those collet
type threaded fittings for use with rod end bearings with the idea of using
this on the mixture arm. Decided to save this until the wire in the mixure
control was beat-up and then cut away the old section and install the collet
fitting. Probably won't ever use it as this area is not something that is
subject to a lot of "fiddling" with.
One thing I've considered and not got around to yet is putting springs on
the mixture and throttle so that if there is a failure of the control
connection with the cables that the mixture goes full rich and throttle,
full power. Sounds like a pretty good idea and I probably should make time
to do it. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Identifying parts |
I'm hoping someone can tell me what one of my parts is. In the bag that
contained the rod ends, there are these four pieces of aluminum. They look
like the tip from a huge mechanical pencil. The pointy end is drilled and
threaded to accept a threaded rod the same size as the male rod ends. The
other end has a larger hole and is not threaded. Diameter of the thing is
about an inch, and it's probably about 1.25 inches long.
On a separate note, I'm *very* impressed with the wing kit. Just about
everything is pre-drilled. All the skins are punched; it doesn't look
like there's a lot to do on the spar; lightening holes are cut in most
of the ribs; and the misc weird parts associated with the tanks are punched.
Who needs a quick-build option?
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Identifying parts |
>I'm hoping someone can tell me what one of my parts is. In the bag that
>contained the rod ends, there are these four pieces of aluminum. They look
>like the tip from a huge mechanical pencil. The pointy end is drilled and
>threaded to accept a threaded rod the same size as the male rod ends. The
>other end has a larger hole and is not threaded. Diameter of the thing is
>about an inch, and it's probably about 1.25 inches long.
>
>On a separate note, I'm *very* impressed with the wing kit. Just about
>everything is pre-drilled. All the skins are punched; it doesn't look
>like there's a lot to do on the spar; lightening holes are cut in most
>of the ribs; and the misc weird parts associated with the tanks are punched.
>Who needs a quick-build option?
>
>-Joe
>
>--
>Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
>Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
>6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
>Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
>
>
My guess is that they are the ends of the aileron pushrods. See if they fit
in the ends of the pushrods with a little effort.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rv-list: Governor Bracket |
Hi Gang...
Just for info, my 6A has a vintage C/S prop and a governor of similar
venerable age. (1956 actually). I ordered the governor bracket from
Vans and it was a "no-way, not on your life, never happen" fit.
Obviously the design has changed radically in the last 40 years (who
says aircraft technology doesnt progress :) ... anyway, if anyone out
there has the same situation, dont panic.... it just so happens that
the throttle bracket that Vans sells fits the old style governor just
right - you have to open up the holes (to 1/4 I think) and then it
fits right on. If anyone needs a "new fangled" governor bracket - in
"unused but cussed out" condition let me know. I'll bring it to OSH or
get it to you free, gratis, and for nothing.
Build 'em straight...
Rob Lee
av8r(at)hic.net
N517RL - RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical conduit cut outs, wing |
>The string is a good idea. However, all is not lost if your string gets
>jerked out before the final wire is fished; shop air and a blow gun will zip
>a piece of twine down the conduit like magic. Might not work if the conduit
>is already snugly filled with wires (shame on you.)
>
>Bill Boyd
>
>
What you are describing is what we, in the electrical trade, call a mouse.
My wife was astounded when, after burying plastic conduit from the house to
the shed 90 feet back of the house, I was able to use a vacuum cleaner to
suck a wad of cloth with a string tied to it all the way through the conduit
in a second or two. Lots easier than trying to push a wire that far.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nut Plate Installation |
>Bob:
>
>Read Scott's message carefully -- the "oops" rivet kit comes with both
>1/8" shank, reduced head rivets AND --> 3/32" shank <--, reduced head
>rivets. The 3/32" shank rivets are the ones he's talking about, they're
>just a regular small rivet, with an even smaller head. Calling them
>"oops" rivets is a bit misleading, since you can't use them when drilling
>a hole oversized, but they can be used to fix other "oops"es. For example
>they're really nice when you drill a hole in the wrong place since they can
>be installed so that they're almost invisible.
>
>I've used both methods for installing nut plates, but I almost always use
>the 3/32" reduced head rivets just cause it's so easy and simple --just one
>shallow machine c-sink and you're done.
>
>Randall Henderson
>RV-6
Randall, Oops! You are correct, sir. (Long drive back from Wyoming, the
sun got in my eyes, etc.) I think I'll stay with the way I do 'em. At my
advanced age, I don't think I could see such a small rivet through my
trifocals. Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gregory Young" <gyoung(at)Net1.Net> |
| Subject: | Re: Identifying parts |
Joe, those mechanical pencil tips are the ends to the aileron push-pull
tubes. I puzzled about them when I got my kit as well. I was impressed as
well having done the non-PP empenage.
My question for the list: my -6 wing kit has a bunch of 400 series parts
that match Van's pick list but are 600 series on the plans. Is there an
explicit cross reference or statement? Or should I have an abiding faith
that if it's on the inventory list, it must be right?:^) My question arose
with the rear spar flanges W607B&C. The W407s were longer and the taper
slightly different. I trimmed them close to the W607 dimensions and used
them. I don't have any doubts about their strength but it would be nice to
have the confirmation.
--
Greg Young
gyoung(at)net1.net
Citabria N90AV
RV-6 s/n 23070 - just starting wings
----------
> From: Joe Larson <showpg.mn.org!jpl(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Identifying parts
> Date: Thursday, 1996 June, 20 21:52 PM
>
> I'm hoping someone can tell me what one of my parts is. In the bag that
> contained the rod ends, there are these four pieces of aluminum. They
look
> like the tip from a huge mechanical pencil. The pointy end is drilled
and
> threaded to accept a threaded rod the same size as the male rod ends.
The
> other end has a larger hole and is not threaded. Diameter of the thing
is
> about an inch, and it's probably about 1.25 inches long.
>
> On a separate note, I'm *very* impressed with the wing kit. Just about
> everything is pre-drilled. All the skins are punched; it doesn't look
> like there's a lot to do on the spar; lightening holes are cut in most
> of the ribs; and the misc weird parts associated with the tanks are
punched.
> Who needs a quick-build option?
>
> -Joe
>
> --
> Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
> Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
> 6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
> Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Identifying parts |
Joe Larson wrote:
>
> I'm hoping someone can tell me what one of my parts is. In the bag that
> contained the rod ends, there are these four pieces of aluminum. They look
> like the tip from a huge mechanical pencil. The pointy end is drilled and
> threaded to accept a threaded rod the same size as the male rod ends. The
> other end has a larger hole and is not threaded. Diameter of the thing is
> about an inch, and it's probably about 1.25 inches long.
>
> On a separate note, I'm *very* impressed with the wing kit. Just about
> everything is pre-drilled. All the skins are punched; it doesn't look
> like there's a lot to do on the spar; lightening holes are cut in most
> of the ribs; and the misc weird parts associated with the tanks are punched.
> Who needs a quick-build option?
>
> -Joe
>
> --
> Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
> Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
> 6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
> Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
Joe
Sounds like the ends for your control tubes that the rod end bearings
screw into.
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rion Bourgeois <RION(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Identifying parts |
>I'm hoping someone can tell me what one of my parts is. In the bag that
>contained the rod ends, there are these four pieces of aluminum. They look
>like the tip from a huge mechanical pencil. The pointy end is drilled and
>threaded to accept a threaded rod the same size as the male rod ends. The
>other end has a larger hole and is not threaded. Diameter of the thing is
>about an inch, and it's probably about 1.25 inches long.
>
>On a separate note, I'm *very* impressed with the wing kit. Just about
>everything is pre-drilled. All the skins are punched; it doesn't look
>like there's a lot to do on the spar; lightening holes are cut in most
>of the ribs; and the misc weird parts associated with the tanks are punched.
>Who needs a quick-build option?
>
>-Joe
>
>--
>Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
>Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
>6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
>Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
>
These are the ends of the control rods that run from the control stick to
the aileron bellcranks. You rivet them to the control rod, and then screw
rod end bearings into them. They are the last assembly you build for the
wings. In fact, you can't even finish them until after the wings are on the
fuselage because you have to get the length right. Hope you don't lose
them. Rion.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rion Bourgeois <RION(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical conduit cut outs, wing |
>
>Text item:
>
>>I've figured out where I want to locate the conduit. My question is, what
>>is everyone using as a conduit?
>
>Not a good way to phrase the question. No two RV builders use the same thing.
>It's kind of an unwritten rule.
>
>Considering durability (resistance to heat and vibration), availability, cost,
>ease of installation (you can push through after the wing is riveted), ease of
>getting wires through, and weight leads you to CPVC pipe (the light tan
stuff in
>building supply stores, used for hot water pipes). Slightly higher cost is
>thin-walled aluminum pipe. There are about 20 other things you could use which
>may or may not be as good.
>
>To be absolutely sure the rib will not chafe through it and dig into the wires
>the conduit should be put in before the second skin is put on so that it
can be
>sealed at each rib with RTV, Pro-Seal, etc.
>
>FKJ
>
>Text item: External Message Header
>
>The following mail header is for administrative use
>and may be ignored unless there are problems.
>
>***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Precedence: bulk
>Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Message-Id:
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Electrical conduit cut outs, wing
>From: Steve Allison <svpal.org!stevea(at)matronics.com>
>Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 20:43:07 -0700 (PDT)
>Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
>Received: by matronics.com (4.1/SMI-4.1)
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>Return-Path: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
I was out at the Skunkworks last week when I picked up my fuselage kit, and
got a look at the second RV-8 prototype's wings, and noticed that Van's AC
don't use conduit at all. Instead, they use the plastic grommets as
supplied with the kits, and pull a string through it before they rivet on
the final skins. Then when they are ready to run wires, they pull them
through with the string.Rion.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rion Bourgeois <RION(at)worldnet.att.net> |
> After seeing several comments on fuel lube, it occurs to me that it would
>be foolish for everyone to buy a 1 lb. can for $16.00 as this is a more than
>life time supply. I would be willing to send a small amount of fuel lube
>(enough to do a few RV's) out of my can if I can recover cost, postage, etc.
>I don't know how to package it. It's really sticky and messy. (Must be a
>distant relative of ProSeal) I'll see if I can work some into a plastic
>envelope, or something. Any of you that have worked with it in the past,
>drop me a note if you have an idea on the best way to package it. This is
>what I used on my RV and it has worked well so far (280 hours). If anyone
>is interested, respond off-list to me at BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>Bob Skinner
>
>
An empty 35mm film cartridge container will hold enough for several
aircraft. I bummed some from another member of the local builders group.
Chances are, someone in your local group bought the 1 lb. can and you can
bum some goo too. Rion
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ayers <102337.2252(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical conduit cut outs, wing |
> If you plan to install a wing tip antenna, do you need two conduits, one
>for the high voltage strobe cable and one for the antenna cable?????
>
>Ken Harrill
>RV - 6, wings
You can run the NAV light and strobe wires together.
The RG58 coax for the wingtip antenna's should be run separate from the other
wires.
The Sportcraft wingtip antenna's (NAV and COM are both available for the
wingtip) have the antenna mounted as far forward in the wingtip as possible.
The NAV light and strobe wires need to run along the forward edge of the antenna
in the adel clamps provided. The RG58 coax mounts near the middle of the
antenna.
It might help to set the antenna you are planning to use in the wingtip, so you
can plan your wire runs at the tip rib accordingly.
Jim Ayers (owner of LOM M332A)
RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
102337.2252(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New member (well, sorta) |
Actually, I had subscribed to this list before, but I have since changed jobs and
I am re-subscribing now.
At the present time I am an RV-4 wannabe builder. It looks like I may be able to
get the tail kit this fall (the budget director and I are still negotiating).
So, for now I am working on getting recurrent and getting my tail dragger endorsement.
I hope you don't mind my "looking over your shoulder," as well as a
few comments from the peanut gallery.
tw
Terry Williams
Reply to: terry.williams(at)tela.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | patk(at)mail.ic.net (test) |
>To: RV-List(at)matronics.com
>From: patk(at)mail.ic.net (test)
>Subject: Add to list
>Cc:
>Bcc:
>X-Attachments:
>
>SUBSCRIBE
>
ooops, sent to wrong address. Matt, don't add me manually; I'll resend to
the right place.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thomas N. Martin" <103212.65(at)CompuServe.COM> |
I had experimented with the offset in my RV-4 after a few hours of flight
Originally I offset the VS 3/8" to the left on advice of friends. This was not
enough and I still needed a rudder tab at cruise. Before painting I moved it
another 1/4" and went for a flight. It was still not enough and worse yet the
plane had developed a fish tailing tendency, a osciallating yaw, if you like.
This was very unsettling to say the least and I moved the stab back to where I
first had it,
On my next plane I will not offset the VS at all
Tom Martin
RV-4 the RaVen
130 hours and climbing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | Engines and oil pressure fittings |
I had a similar problem with the oil pressure fitting last year. Here is
one of my posts that I dug out of the archive.
This is the first time I used this wonderful resource. Thanks to those who
put it together.
Ken has just run his engine by the way, congratulations. I have been
lagging behind, maybe next year.
_
From: "Dave Fried"
Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 07:52:10 -0400
Subject: OIL PRESSURE fitting
In the excitement that comes with the arrival of a large and expensive
bit of hardware, it is possible to get carried away and forget some of
the small details.
My engine arrived the other month. After fiddling about (grunting,
straining, cursing...) for an hour or so it was hanging nicely from
it's dynafocal mount. After a brief rest and a short trip to Ken
Hitchmough's place we did the same to his engine in a third of the
time. The point is that the learning curve does work and that coming
in second can be nice.
Neither of us remembered that the OIL PRESSURE port is located rather
close to the upper right engine mount. I went back and read Tony B's
article warning of this problem and how it is nearly impossible to get
the fitting into place. Almost is the key here.
A 90 degree brass fitting with is available from ACS. Once this is in
the PRESSURE port a straight restrictor fitting may be threaded into
it. This fitting is rather bulky, filing down the corners will ease
it past the mount. In Ken's case the threads of the port were cut so
that the fitting engaged early and was clear of the mount at the first
half turn.
I wasn't so lucky. After more sweating and cursing I did solve the
problem. Once I figured it out it took just seconds. Loosen the
mount bolt, slip a lever between the case and the face of the mount, a
little push and it is clear... easy.
David Fried
DF-6
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
Steve;
I second Bob Skinners' approach. I went through the same process of what to
do and the same elimination and wound up with a metal trim added on. You
can adjust it as necc., whereas the 'wedge' is just there. Only thing, I
pop riveted the trim onto the rudder. Right now, it is primer gray but
doesn't look bad on the maroon rudder--a little flash of decor. Next comes
a fox tail on my loran ant!! One of these days when I'm touching up the
paint, I may paint it (the trim, not the fox tail) maroon also.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Maynard, Bryon" <maynardb(at)snowmass.ksc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | conical bushings |
Does anyone have any sources for obtaining the 8 ea. (1 inch) rubber
bushing (conical). Also does anyone know what other hardware is needed
(sizes) for the mounting of an engine (0-320-A1A) to Van's Conical
Mounts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
<< on the list I have learned volumes from your replys and questions (yeah,
I'm
one of those guys who can't hear a question too many times; thick scull) so
what is inadequacy to one, is guru status to another. Well done and keep it
up, my RV depends on it.
Thanks Eric, I appreciate it. There certainly are some high and low spots to
this (monumental) project and this list has been a gold mine for me. It
seems that when I come across something that seems utimately impossible,
someone on the list helps out with technical and emotional assistance.
Eric Henson
Painting wifes car, somebody shoot me.
>>
AAAAAAAAAH!!!!! You're taking time out from building your RV to paint your
wifes car? Oh well, that should be good for at least 6 months of good will,
eh?
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: More engine questions |
<<
I did not install primers at all. I've never had a problem getting mine to
fire and I live where it does get cold. If you do use them, you need to get
primer fittings and most use copper line.
Really? I thought a primer was a necessity. How cold does it get where you
are? Do you just pump the throttle a couple of times before starting? I
haven't seen specific primer fittings, are they just -2 AN pipe fittings?
Cables are attached with rod ends and capture washers.
What are capture washers? Are those the clamps that "pinch" the cable to the
mounting bracket an have a little finger than goes into the notch in the
cable? If not, what is that clamp called, and where do I get them? Arrgh!
You may find the VA126 bracket doesn't work well with the big carb on the
I feel really dense, but I can't figure out how the cables attach to that
bracket. There are none of the special clamps that clamp it to the cables.
>>
Thanks,
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Identifying parts |
<< My question for the list: my -6 wing kit has a bunch of 400 series parts
that match Van's pick list but are 600 series on the plans. Is there an
explicit cross reference or statement?
Generally speaking, If they are 400 series on the pick list you are okay.
The 400 series denotes RV4 and 600 is RV6. If the parts are interchangeable
( a lot of them are ) then they are stamped with the 400 series #.
Or should I have an abiding faith
that if it's on the inventory list, it must be right?:^) >>
Now THAT kind of thinking can get you into trouble.. :)
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
<< My name is Mike Sierchio and I've been lurking around for several
months. I've asked for and received help from some of you on
various topics for which I'm grateful. I figure it's time I
introduced myself.
Tonight I'm driving from Boise to Mecca (AKA Van's) so that
tomorrow I can pick up my empennage kit, get a tour of the place
and Wx permitting get a ride in the demo A/C. I plan to stick
around for the fly-in at Scappoose on Saturday. >>
Hi Mike! Glad to see someone local on the list. I live in Eagle and I'm
finishing up a 6A. I'm doing the million details involed with engine
hook-up. Welcome to the list and to the wonderful ( and sometimes
frustrating ) world of RV's. Drop me a line and let me know how your trip
went.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:Type of Conduit Used... |
I chose to avoid using the black irrigation pipe for the simple reason that
is made of polyethylene. PE, like its cousin PTFE (teflon) has an
unfortunate property called "cold flow" which causes it to be easy slit upon
repeated contact with and pressure from hard, thin, somewhat edgy surfaces
(that's wing ribs to us builder types). There is nothing you can do to
change this tendency short of buffering each hole using snap bushings which
are a tough polycarbonate.
I used clear vinyl tubing 5/8" outside diameter. Yes, Virginia, it is
slightly heavier, but it is also much tougher in the long haul.
Well, back to the Oort Cloud!
N1GV
Vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Johnson, Steve" <spjohnson(at)msmail.mmmg.com> |
>Steve;
>I second Bob Skinners' approach. I went through the same process of what to
>do and the same elimination and wound up with a metal trim added on. You
>can adjust it as necc., whereas the 'wedge' is just there. Only thing, I
>pop riveted the trim onto the rudder. Right now, it is primer gray but
>doesn't look bad on the maroon rudder--a little flash of decor. Next comes
>a fox tail on my loran ant!! One of these days when I'm touching up the
>paint, I may paint it (the trim, not the fox tail) maroon also.
>John D
>John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
>johnd@our-town.com
Isn't this list great? There are now a lot of builders who won't have to go
through a process of elimination. I had no intention of starting such a
discussion, but it turned out to be very helpful I think. I'll forget it for
now, stick on a tab with silicone if I need it when I'm done, and pop rivet a
tab if the silicone won't hold.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: conical bushings |
v>
>Does anyone have any sources for obtaining the 8 ea. (1 inch) rubber
>bushing (conical). Also does anyone know what other hardware is needed
>(sizes) for the mounting of an engine (0-320-A1A) to Van's Conical
>Mounts.
I got mine from Chief Aircraft - I think Spruce has them too. Just dont believe
the stories that conical mounts are "cheap" :(
regards
Rob Lee
av8r(at)hic.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)interhop.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More engine questions |
Cheryl, I am at exactly the same stage, that is, worrying about what type of
cable, and whether to use copper or aluminum tibing for the primer lines.
I elected to mount the oil cooler on the firewall . Van's now has a kit for
the installation. I cut the 3" hole in the rear baffle (Where it was shown
on the baffle plans), got every thing set up, and then found the oil
dip-stick coud no longer be inserted, so this afternoon, I take is all apart
again.
I am getting more sympathy for the persom who said he made his RV in three
months, but it took six months to correct things he had done incorrectly,
and a year to find where he had left his tools.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Nut Plate Installation |
You wrote:
>
>Bob:
>
<>
> Calling them "oops" rivets is a bit misleading, since you can't use
>them when drilling a hole oversized, but they can be used to fix other
>"oops"es. For example they're really nice when you drill a hole in the
>wrong place since they can be installed so that they're almost
>invisible.
>
>I've used both methods for installing nut plates, but I almost always
>use the 3/32" reduced head rivets just cause it's so easy and simple
>--just one shallow machine c-sink and you're done.
>
>Randall Henderson
>RV-6
>
Guess it is time to come clean and air some more dirty laundry!
(Cheez, what kind of a figure of speech is that?)
I have used these "oops" rivets for the following oops. I screwed up a
-3 rivet and then drilled it out. I pretty much screwed up the
drilling out process too and enlarged the hole. (Consistent, huh?) So
I drilled out the hole to #30 drill size and used a -4 "oops" rivet
which has a 4/32 shank and 3/32 head. That way it filled the hole
nicely and the head looked like all the other rivets in the line.
Stupid me thought this was the only things these were for. But I am
ready to finish installing the servo for the electric trim tab on the
left elevator and was scratching my head regarding how to get those nut
plates -- which are very close to the edges -- to install properly. I
will probably look at dimpling the nut plates, which I had never done
or considered, but it is nice to have a choice.
Best regards,
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tom metty" <Tom=Metty%Foreman%MaintSvc(at)bfmailer.bf.umich.edu> |
Primer fitting AN 4022-1 (Screws into cylinder)
Primer cone AN 800-2 (Solder to copper primer line)
Primer nut AN 805-2 (Secures cone to fitting)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More engine questions |
> I did not install primers at all. I've never had a problem getting mine to
> fire and I live where it does get cold. If you do use them, you need to get
> primer fittings and most use copper line.
>
>Really? I thought a primer was a necessity. How cold does it get where you
>are? Do you just pump the throttle a couple of times before starting? I
>haven't seen specific primer fittings, are they just -2 AN pipe fittings?
Ed, I think there is a fire risk in using the accelerator pump in the carb
as a priming method. I have more peace of mind priming three cylinders
through the primer ports.
>What are capture washers? Are those the clamps that "pinch" the cable to the
>mounting bracket an have a little finger than goes into the notch in the
>cable? If not, what is that clamp called, and where do I get them? Arrgh!
The capture washer holds things together in case of rod end failure. (Check
out Tony's books) I always called the "pinch nut" set-up a bug nut.
Probably not the proper name, though. I made my own for the mixture and
carb heat. I don't remember seeing them in ACS, Wicks, etc. but you could
probably obtain some from an A/C salvage yard. I'd sure use the rod end
type connection on the throttle. I used a wire on the mixture but have
mixed feelings, may do a rod end on the next RV. Bob Skinner RV-6
BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larson, Joe" <Joseph.P.Larson(at)nmb.norwest.com> (Joe Larson) |
It's me again...
I'm intending to install a wing leveler. As I understand it, this is best
done (or partly done) while constructing the wing. Can someone provide more
info than this? What goes in the wing? Both wings? Where does it go? At
what point do I need to buy whatever I need to buy?
I understand Navaid has the most cost-effective unit that actually works well.
Comments? Does anyone have an updated status since the death of the company
founder? I know this has been asked before, but how about contact info?
pricing? Do I have other choices that don't cost a whole ton more?
If I contact Navaid, will they be able to answer these questions a lot better?
-Joe
--
Joe Larson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Measuring tip for beginners |
<1996Jun20.143500.1498.7502(at)Spiderman.SagentTech.com>
| From: | Rudy Albachten <Rudy.Albachten(at)amd.com> |
> Mitch Faatz said:
>
> Use a compass to find the centerline of objects.
>
..... [Description of using a compass to find the centerline...]
> Using the center-finding ruler is less than optimal because
> moving your head just an inch or two from side to side shows
> just how much error there is in this method. You can't
> consistently place your eyeball perpendicular to the center
> mark on the ruler.
>
I too have used the compass method, as well as several other tricks we
learned in High School geometry oh so many years ago.
I thought you might be interested in a little trick I use to avoid
paralax problems. In the case you mentioned above, you can move your
head around until (with one eye closed), you see the mark you are
interested in lined up with the reflection of your pupil. When you do
this, you know you are looking exactly perpendicularly at the flat shiny
surface. (Isn't aluminum great!)
- Rudy Albachten
RV-6
Still working on elevators,
no progress since memorial day...
shame on me!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: More engine questions |
>
>Really? I thought a primer was a necessity. How cold does it get where you
>are? Do you just pump the throttle a couple of times before starting? I
>haven't seen specific primer fittings, are they just -2 AN pipe fittings?
>
>
>What are capture washers? Are those the clamps that "pinch" the cable to the
>mounting bracket an have a little finger than goes into the notch in the
>cable? If not, what is that clamp called, and where do I get them? Arrgh!
>
> You may find the VA126 bracket doesn't work well with the big carb on the
>
>I feel really dense, but I can't figure out how the cables attach to that
>bracket. There are none of the special clamps that clamp it to the cables.
> >>
>
>Thanks,
>Ed Bundy
>
Ed:
Alot of guys don't put in primers. I live in Cincinnati and I flew when it
was in the teens last winter. Obviously you need to preheat in severe cold
but proper use of the accelerator pump will get you started. Improper use
can cause a fire hazzard so you need to be sure the engine is turning when
you stab the throttle as the pump squirts a lot of gas.
The primer fittings are AN4022 or AN4023 and are available from Wicks or
other supply houses. You will also need AN800 code union fittings to connect
your copper line.
Capture washer for an AN3 bolt is an AN970-3 it's OD is .875" so if the rod
end fails the bolt cant pull through it. Take a look at anything on the
flightline
and you will see them.
I think you are refering to wire grips for the cables. Wire grips are also
available from Wicks and other supply houses. I didn't use any. I used
cablecraft cables with 10/32 threaded ends. I like them better.
Cables with threaded ends lock the outter sleeve with 2 nuts through the
holes in the VA 126 bracket. It's hard to describe but obvious when you see
one thats done. I extended the bracket so I could do this on both the
throttle and mixture.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lewis <lewisjw(at)hqsocom.af.mil> |
Subject: autopilots
June 21, 1996 Joe Larson wrote: What about the Navaid wing leveler?
I talked to the new owner at Sun N Fun. He was the former owner's main
employee before and his protege. He inherited the company and is continuing
the product line. He was still working on details for production of the 3rd
axis controller, last I heard. Reports are the products are good value.
Also for experimental a/c, you may have seen the thread a few months ago, a
new autopilot system is available from Empire Development Co. Let me know if
you want more info. (I'll have to get it at home.) Joe
lewisjw(at)hqsocom.af.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
| Subject: | Terry in Calgary |
Terry, two weeks ago you were having trouble with the "VS Tip Attach".
Several of us here on the list offered suggestions..........I'm sure I'm
not the only curious about which method of repair you choose including your
results.
Greg Bordelon
greg(at)brokersys.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid Devices |
>
> I'm intending to install a wing leveler. As I understand it, this is best
> done (or partly done) while constructing the wing. Can someone provide more
> info than this?
[etc., etc.]
Have you checked the rv-list archives? There has been a lot of
discussion on this -- you should check it out. Unlike some subjects,
"Navaid" is a good, unique keyword to search for in the search engine if
you have WWW access (http://www.matronics.com). If you don't let me
know and I can do it and send you the results (or post if other people
want it).
Sorry if it seems like I'm saying "don't bug us verterans with this old
news" -- really I'm not, I just want to let you know that the answers to
your questions are all there and pretty easy to find using Matt's search
engine.
Randall Henderson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Navaid Devices |
Joe;
I got the info from Navaid a while back and talked to some one who had
installed one. The info covers your questions, but as a primer:
The actuator goes under the rt seat, partly under that part that will
already come off, possibly cut for access to the rear of it. A bracket that
you put in holds the actuator, and there is one connection, a rod, from it
to the same connection where the rt wing push tube connects to that gizmo
that the stick connects to. Just the normal Vans stuff in your wings.
The last address and phone number I have (before the owner left us) is
Navaid Devices, 641 N. Market Street, Chattanooga, Tennessee 37405. Phone
(615) 267-3311.
What goes in the wing? Both wings? Where does it go? At
>what point do I need to buy whatever I need to buy?
>
>I understand Navaid has the most cost-effective unit that actually works well.
>If I contact Navaid, will they be able to answer these questions a lot better?
Hope this helps you.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: More engine questions |
, I think there is a fire risk in using the accelerator pump in the carb
>as a priming method. I have more peace of mind priming three cylinders
>through the primer ports.
>
>Bob:
My start routine is to hit the starter FIRST then give the throttle 2 short
strokes and bring it back to idle which helps choke the intake. The fuel is
sucked into the engine and it usually fires on the second blade. The risk
of fire is remote doing it this way IMHO. AND there is a hazard from leaky
or broken primer systems which I have experienced. Anyway this is whats
nice about these airplanes.......we can all do it just the way we want.
Ain't life grand!
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: More engine questions |
Ed; My 2 cents worth.
>Really? I thought a primer was a necessity. How cold does it get where
you>are? Do you just pump the throttle a couple of times before starting?
I tried it without a primer for about a year. Maybe it was just my engine,
but rather than running the battery down, I had gotten to where I would turn
on the boost pump, pump the throttle 2 to 3 times, then pull the prop
through 3-4 blades, then jump in and start the engine. To hell with it, I
put in a primer! 2-3 pumps, hit the starter and it goes. Think that it may
be a lot easier on the battery.
> You may find the VA126 bracket doesn't work well with the big carb on the
Mine didn't fit either. Had to add a angle and plate extra to get the right
distance for the threaded end of the cable housing versus the end of the
cable on the throttle/mixture fittings. It looks like something that Rube
Goldburg would be proud of, but it works. The bracket from Vans is now just
a mounting place for all of the stuff I had to add on.
>
>I feel really dense, but I can't figure out how the cables attach to that
>bracket. There are none of the special clamps that clamp it to the cables.
JOhn D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David W.S. King" <KingD(at)direct.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: More engine questions |
>> I did not install primers at all. I've never had a problem getting mine to
>> fire and I live where it does get cold. If you do use them, you need to get
>> primer fittings and most use copper line.
>>
>>Really? I thought a primer was a necessity. How cold does it get where you
>>are? Do you just pump the throttle a couple of times before starting? I
>>haven't seen specific primer fittings, are they just -2 AN pipe fittings?
>
>Ed, I think there is a fire risk in using the accelerator pump in the carb
>as a priming method. I have more peace of mind priming three cylinders
>through the primer ports.
>
AS well some places such as the Great White North aka Canada require that
a primer pump or "means of priming the engine" be installed before they will
issue a flight cert.
Dave
Dave King
KingD(at)Direct.Ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen ) |
You wrote:
>
>I'm building now. It took for ever to clean, prep and lay out, mask
and
>paint 30 alternating black and white squares on the aft face of the
ring
>gear. Like five or six hours. If something ever happens to that ring
>gear---- Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>
>
Not knowing what a "Braal" tach is, this still comes to mind:
paint the ring black, and use "silver" colored adhesive tape for the
"white" spots.
Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Trusty <dtrusty(at)flash.net> |
I'm a new mail list member. I've built RV-4 wings and fuselage. Now
building RV-6 wings. This mail list is a great idea, but it seems to be
getting out of hand. I was gone for 4 days and received 137 e-mails when I
got home. We need a way of sorting the wheat from the chaf. This is not
aimed at anyone, just a general observation.
Dennis Trusty
Granbury,Tx
Chapter 983
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Hiatt <hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu> |
Bob Skinner wrote:
>
> After seeing several comments on fuel lube, it occurs to me that it would
> be foolish for everyone to buy a 1 lb. can for $16.00 as this is a more than
> life time supply. I would be willing to send a small amount of fuel lube
> (enough to do a few RV's) out of my can if I can recover cost, postage, etc.
> I don't know how to package it. It's really sticky and messy. (Must be a
> distant relative of ProSeal) I'll see if I can work some into a plastic
> envelope, or something. Any of you that have worked with it in the past,
> drop me a note if you have an idea on the best way to package it. This is
> what I used on my RV and it has worked well so far (280 hours). If anyone
> is interested, respond off-list to me at BSkinner(at)ltec.net
> Bob Skinner
Bob, Try putting some in a plastic photo film can, they seal pretty good
and most photo shops throw them away, I probably have some lying around
since I keep EVERYTHING.
Fred Hiatt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
A mechanic friend of mine suggested that I change the timing of my O-320-E2A
150 hp Lycoming from the specified 25 degrees to 26. He has used this on
some engines whose owners had reported lack of power. Anyone have any
experience along these lines? Will this decrease the safety margin on
detonation? Thanks, Bob Skinner BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More engine questions |
>, I think there is a fire risk in using the accelerator pump in the carb
>>as a priming method. I have more peace of mind priming three cylinders
>>through the primer ports.
>>
>>Bob:
>My start routine is to hit the starter FIRST then give the throttle 2 short
>strokes and bring it back to idle which helps choke the intake. The fuel is
>sucked into the engine and it usually fires on the second blade. The risk
>of fire is remote doing it this way IMHO. AND there is a hazard from leaky
>or broken primer systems which I have experienced. Anyway this is whats
>nice about these airplanes.......we can all do it just the way we want.
>Ain't life grand!
>
>Regards:
>Rusty Gossard
>N47RG RV-4 Flying
Rusty, Good point about primer lines breaking. Also, I always pre-heat in
cold weather. Of course, if you are away from home and can't get to
electricity an adequate job of priming might make the difference on getting
your airplane going. We did have a 172 catch fire at my home airport and it
made an impression. Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
>You wrote:
>>
>>I'm building now. It took for ever to clean, prep and lay out, mask
>and
>>paint 30 alternating black and white squares on the aft face of the
>ring
>>gear. Like five or six hours. If something ever happens to that ring
>>gear---- Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>>
>>
>Not knowing what a "Braal" tach is, this still comes to mind:
>paint the ring black, and use "silver" colored adhesive tape for the
>"white" spots.
>
>Finn
Finn, Braal does include silver/black self sticking material, I think for
use for a different ring gear or sensor mounting than I used. I felt that
the paint sould be more durable. If you used the silver tape, it would have
to be cut exactly so the light and dark squares were the same size. The
instructions were very explicit on this point. I got the Braal tack from
Van's, don't know if they still handle it.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sportcraft Wingtip Antenna |
I guess I wasn't quite clear enough in my last comments on the Sportcraft
wingtip antenna. Only one antenna can be mounting in each wingtip. You can
mount one antenna in either wingtip, or to mount two antenna's, one antenna
would go in each wingtip.
For a single COM radio, you would install a COM antenna in one wingtip.
For a single NAV/COM radio, you would install a NAV antenna in one wingtip,
and the COM antenna in the opposite wingtip.
For a dual NAV/COM installation, a NAV antenna could be mounted in one
wingtip with a splitter to the radios, a COM antenna could be mounted in the
other wingtip, and one COM antenna could be mounted on the top of the
vertical stabilizer.
Or, a NAV antenna could be mounted in one wingtip and a COM antenna in the
other wingtip, and by using the Sportcraft antenna switch to select which
radio you are transmitting from, you can listen to both radios at the same
time.
I am just finishing the installation for a single COM radio with one COM
antenna in the right wingtip. If this works out as expected, I will be
taking the COM antenna off of the top of the VS of my RV-3. I should know in
a couple of days. (The RV-3 wing is 6 3/8 inch thick as compared to 7 3/4
for the RV-4/RV-6, so it should work in the RV-3.)
I have individual strobe power supplies for each of the wingtip mounted
strobes on my RV-3. My NAV antenna (installed for 8 years) is mounted
between the power supply and the strobe light. The strobe wire is routed
along the front edge of the antenna along with the NAV light wires.
The Narco Escort II radio picks up the MAC servo noise (mounted in the
tailcone) very well, the electric prop motor noise a slight amount. The
strobe power supply noise is slightly greater than the electric prop motor.
(I guess I could have turned the squelch down, so I wouldn"t hear any of the
noises.)
The COM 120 radio (which has an single squelch switch) I now use does not
pick up any of the above mentioned noises. (I miss the servo motor noise.
Without a trim indicator, I set take-off position by counting from full up
elevator position. It kind of reassuring to hear the servo motor running.)
I don't know how other radios will operate with the strobe and antenna
mounted together in the wingtip, but it has never been objectionable in my
RV-3 installation, and is not even noticable now.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Measuring tip for beginners |
| From: | Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)indirect.com> |
> you can move your
>head around until (with one eye closed), you see the mark you are
>interested in lined up with the reflection of your pupil
I tried this, but no matter how hard I looked, I never saw any pupil (or
his reflection) in my shop. If I do find him, I'll make him do all the
rivet hole deburring, proseal work, fiberglass work, and spray gun
cleanup... ;-)
Mike Kukulski (kukulski(at)indirect.com)
RV-4 N96MK, fabricating left wing root fairings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: More engine questions |
<< Cables with threaded ends lock the outter sleeve with 2 nuts through the
holes in the VA 126 bracket. It's hard to describe but obvious when you see
one thats done. I extended the bracket so I could do this on both the
throttle and mixture.
>>
I think I get the picture. What kind of nuts are these? The cable jacket is
spiral-wound, but it would have to be a really coarse thread bolt to thread
on to it.
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: More engine questions |
<< I always called the "pinch nut" set-up a bug nut.
Probably not the proper name, though. I made my own for the mixture and
carb heat. I don't remember seeing them in ACS, Wicks, etc. but you could
probably obtain some from an A/C salvage yard. I'd sure use the rod end
type connection on the throttle. I used a wire on the mixture but have
mixed feelings, may do a rod end on the next RV. >>
I'm using rod ends on throttle AND mixture. I feel a lot more secure that
way. But how do you attach the end of the cable housing to the support
bracket? There is a groove cut in the cable jacket for the distinct purpose
of a special clamp to grab it. I KNOW I've seen these clamps, but I can't
find them in any of the catalogs. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
First off, I want to appologize to the list for some mail I had routed
privately ending up on the list. Don't know what happened, but I'll try to
keep it from happening again.
On to engine question #445: How do you go about running an oil pressure line
to an electric sender then on to the gauge? I bought an electric sender to
avoid the hassle of running a tube into the cockpit. I thought I could just
mount the sender on the engine.
Well, aside from the fact that it's to big to fit into the 1/10 cubic inch
space available, there seems to be some concern about vibration fatigue.
Now, it looks to me like all of the Aeroquip hose fittings are for flared
tube connections. So how does one run a hose to an 1/8" pipe thread (on the
engine) to the 1/8" pipe connector on the sender? Then how do you mount the
sender to the firewall? Or are there pipe connector ends available for the
hoses that I'm missing?
As an aside, what are the merits/disadvatages of Aeroquip 601 vs. 303 hose?
I notice Van's only carries the 601, but in the Orndorff video he uses 303.
Thanks to all for putting up with my questions.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: conical bushings |
<< Does anyone have any sources for obtaining the 8 ea. (1 inch) rubber
bushing (conical). Also does anyone know what other hardware is needed
(sizes) for the mounting of an engine (0-320-A1A) to Van's Conical
Mounts. >>
I'm not sure about the mounts, but they have a conical bolt set on page 8 of
the accessories catalog.
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Measuring tip for beginners |
Hi Mitch,
I too found it hard to easily find the center. Try this one
stolen from a book on woodwork.
With a length of wood (somewhat longer than the channel is wide) drill a
hole at either end to fit a small dowell. Find the exact center between
these dowells and drill another hole for a dowell shaped like a pencil.
Rotate the tool so that the 2 outer dowells rest against the flanges of the
channel. The free moving center dowell can then be pushed down onto the web
and the point will be at the centre.
\
o
-------------------------------------------
\
o
\
-------------------------------------------
o
\
Royce Craven
roycec(at)ozemail.com.au
>
>I had a heck of a time measuring the centerline of the rear spars. I
>would lay my center-finding ruler over the two edges, move it to exactly
>center, and looking down with my eye perpendicular to the
>center point I would pen a mark. Do a whole bunch of these down the
>spar, lay out a ruler to connect
>the dots and DANG, what's going on here? Using a precise ruler and
>taking all the time in the world,
>these things should all line up. I'm pretty anal retentive and this was
>driving me up a wall, so here is
>my new improved method:
>
> -Mitch
>Rear empennage spar completed, RV-6A (probably)
>
> Q / cut here
> -------------O-\-------------------------------------------------------
>
>Mitchell Faatz mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com
>Software Engineering Manager
>Sagent Technology, Inc. (415) 614-6826
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: More engine questions |
>
><< Cables with threaded ends lock the outter sleeve with 2 nuts through the
> holes in the VA 126 bracket. It's hard to describe but obvious when you see
> one thats done. I extended the bracket so I could do this on both the
> throttle and mixture.
> >>
>I think I get the picture. What kind of nuts are these? The cable jacket is
>spiral-wound, but it would have to be a really coarse thread bolt to thread
>on to it.
>
>Ed Bundy
>
Ed:
They come on the cable......Same cable as the trim cable supplied by Van.
Regards:
Rusty
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cecil Hatfield / Fourstar Printing <cecil(at)alto1.altonet.com> |
Marc and others interested.
Two years ago I got 800 clecoes for .24 each from a wholsaler
customer of mine. They have served me very well so I guess they are good
ones.
I can get them for you for cost plus shipping if you like. Must be
in multiples of 100.
Cecil Hatfield
(805) 375-2660
Fax (805) 375-2663
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Measuring tip for beginners |
<199606220707.RAA06626(at)oznet02.ozemail.com.au>
| From: | Jack Abell <abell(at)rand.org> |
Careful! The method using the wooden device with the dowels and drilled
center hole only works on channels whose flanges are parallel. The method
using the compass arcs also works on tapered channels.
Jack Abell
RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE) |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid Devices |
You wrote:
>
>
>It's me again...
>
>I'm intending to install a wing leveler. As I understand it, this is
best
>done (or partly done) while constructing the wing. Can someone
provide more
>info than this? What goes in the wing? Both wings? Where does it
go? At
>what point do I need to buy whatever I need to buy?
>
>I understand Navaid has the most cost-effective unit that actually
works well.
>Comments? Does anyone have an updated status since the death of the
company
>founder? I know this has been asked before, but how about contact
info?
>pricing? Do I have other choices that don't cost a whole ton more?
>
>If I contact Navaid, will they be able to answer these questions a lot
better?
>
>-Joe
>
>
Joe,
Navaid Devices still continues after the death of the founder. They
will send you a package with rough drawing for the RV series if you
call or write them. I got a package back in March.
Navaid Devices Inc
641 North Market ST.
Chattanooga, TN 37405
(423)267-3311
Ed Cole RV6A #24430
ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
>Joe Larson
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Wings: am I going crazy? |
Question of the hour time. I'm disassembling my spars as shipped from Van's.
In reading the directions under "Assembly Instructions for Factory Drilled
Spars: Factory Identification of Components", it says when referring to the
marks on the flange strips:
Small dots are punched into the butt ends of the flange strips;
the single dot marks the bottom and the double dot the top.
But I think that last part is exactly reversed from the markings on
my spar. The inboard end of the spar is cut at a slight angle. I am
assuming that the top of the spar is slightly shorter than the bottom so that
the two spars can butt up against each other and form the dihedral. And I
definitely have single dots on the shorter side, not the longer side.
Comments?
On a separate issue -- I only have room to do one wing at a time. Does it
make any diference at all which one I do first? Picking at random, I carried
the left spar into the shop first.
Yet another note -- I had made arrangements with a friend whose father has
a well-endowed workshop to taper the flange strips on a milling machine. All
without need: the flange strips come tapered. More good news concerning the
shipments from Van's these days.
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
I would be willing to send a small amount of fuel lube
>(enough to do a few RV's) out of my can if I can recover cost, postage, etc.
>I don't know how to package it. It's really sticky and messy. (Must be a
>distant relative of ProSeal) I'll see if I can work some into a plastic
>envelope, or something.
>Bob
Bob: I had some for years packaged in a plastic 35mm film can. However,
after several moves, I have no idea where it is. Good way to package it if
you can find the cans. I think that film developers in town have several
million they probably recycle in other ways. Might as well have fuel lub in
them...
Michael
Mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
>Primer fitting AN 4022-1 (Screws into cylinder)
>Primer cone AN 800-2 (Solder to copper primer line)
>Primer nut AN 805-2 (Secures cone to fitting)
>
Yes: these are available from ACS&S and work quite well. They do require
copper tubing as the cone must be soldered (SILVER solder, not tin/lead) to
the fitting. I was worried about priming only 2 cylinders (1 and 2) as 4
had the manifold pressure line and 3 is impossible to get to (runs into the
baffling). HOWEVER: the engine, as stated above, rarely need priming and I
am SURE if the two primed cylinders are running the other two will be
running soon after, right in there with them. I also used the primer
solinoid mounted on the firewall and have avoided another fuel line in the
cockpit. The setup LOOKS good: testing is pending.
Michael
RV-4 232SQ
mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Measuring tip for beginners |
>
>Careful! The method using the wooden device with the dowels and drilled
>center hole only works on channels whose flanges are parallel. The method
>using the compass arcs also works on tapered channels.
>
>Jack Abell
>RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
>
>
Just had a thought. What if Jack Abell, Jim Anglin, John Andrews and I were
to all converge on a controlled airport at the same time? Our RV's N
numbers all end in JA. How many other RV's are there on the List with the
same 'JA' ending??
My choice was obvious; first aircraft built and an RV-"6".
Jack, what about you? Is your number significant in some way to you??
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine stuff |
> Now, it looks to me like all of the Aeroquip hose fittings are for flared
>tube connections. So how does one run a hose to an 1/8" pipe thread (on the
>engine) to the 1/8" pipe connector on the sender? Then how do you mount the
>sender to the firewall? Or are there pipe connector ends available for the
>hoses that I'm missing?
>
Ed: There is a fitting for pipe to flare. I ran the 45 degree from the
engine (with a flow restrictor, of course) and a 90 degree to the sensor
attached to the firewall (with a bracket I made up). Between them is a
length of 303 hose to allow for engine movement. No oil lines to the
cockpit and, maybe a more accurate guage. I also have a similar setup for
the fuel pressure.
Michael
RV-4 232SQ
mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical conduit |
Vans and I believe ACS&S sells a black nylon ribbed tubing that works well
for several things: electrical conduit, covering for wires running close to
anything metal, air blast tubes for mag and fuel pump cooling (wedged into
the baffling and directed to the area needing cooling), etc. It is sold
with Vans electrical wire "kit" in a length you could use to water the lawn.
Oh, here it is in Vans catalog: DUCT NT5/8- sold in 25 and 50 foot rolls.
If you want a sample he sells it in little stubby 2 foot lenghts too, I
believe as that is how I first found it. Longer rolls are better (cheaper).
Michael
RV-4 232SQ
mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Measuring tip for beginners |
<199606221717.KAA02076(at)mx.seanet.com>
| From: | Jack Abell <abell(at)rand.org> |
John,
It is significant to me, although actually it wasn't my first choice; N7JA
was. I specified five choices in response to the FAA registration
instructions. The FAA chose N333JA from among them. It was in my list
because (a) I used to fly a Piper Archer, N333DE, for which I had a
certain fondness, having flown it on some memorable trips, and (b) I
wanted a call sign that wasn't too long and I thought I could use "Triple
Three Juliet Alpha" with little inconvenience. I have as much ego as
anyone, of course, so all of my choices ended with my initials.
Jack Abell
RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Removal of protective covering on aluminum |
Van's is now shipping aluminum sheet pieces (skins, wing spar webs, etc) with
a clear plastic coating. I'm wondering at what point people are removing it.
Leaving it on as long as possible means you'll scratch the parts up that much
less.
However, when you do remove it, you'll lose any layout markings you've drawn
on the part.
Comments?
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cecil Hatfield / Fourstar Printing <cecil(at)alto1.altonet.com> |
| Subject: | Removal of protective covering on aluminum |
Joe I left mine on till just before riviting. And when I rivet I put black
electrical tape over the rivits to protect the bare metal while I rivet.
Cecil Hatfield
You Wrote:
Van's is now shipping aluminum sheet pieces (skins, wing spar webs, etc)
with
a clear plastic coating. I'm wondering at what point people are removing
it.
Leaving it on as long as possible means you'll scratch the parts up that
much
less.
However, when you do remove it, you'll lose any layout markings you've drawn
on the part.
Comments?
-Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cecil Hatfield / Fourstar Printing <cecil(at)alto1.altonet.com> |
| Subject: | Wings: am I going crazy? |
Joe,
I'm not sitting in front of my plans right now but it seems to me that the
plans show one wing's parts (ether left or right) thruout. If I were to do
one wing first I would do that one. Less chance to make a mistake. Then
after the first wing you would be fimilar with the plans and have the first
wing to refer to. Do I make since?
Cecil Hatfield
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Redfield <75160.3373(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Wings: am I going crazy? |
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: Tom Redfield, 75160,3373
DATE: 6/22/96 19:00
RE: Copy of: RV-List: Wings: am I going crazy?
Joe, your question:
I'm disassembling my spars as shipped from Van's.
In reading the directions under "Assembly Instructions for Factory Drilled
Spars: Factory Identification of Components", it says when referring to the
marks on the flange strips:
Small dots are punched into the butt ends of the flange strips;
the single dot marks the bottom and the double dot the top.
But I think that last part is exactly reversed from the markings on
my spar.
Answer:
I had the same problem with one spar. called Van's. Van's had me call
Phogistron who drills, and now tapers, the spar strips. they \had an employee
who marked a few of the spar flange strips backwards. They assured me that the
employee is no longer with them.
Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wings: am I going crazy? |
Cecil Hatfield / Fourstar Printing wrote:
>
> Joe,
> I'm not sitting in front of my plans right now but it seems to me that the
> plans show one wing's parts (ether left or right) thruout. If I were to do
> one wing first I would do that one. Less chance to make a mistake. Then
> after the first wing you would be fimilar with the plans and have the first
> wing to refer to. Do I make since?
>
> Cecil Hatfield
Joe, if you're still confused and I was, I just made up my
own reference system before I disassembled the spars and
drew a picture of it. Then simply reassembled it acording
to my drawing.
chet razer: riveting foreward side skins and still haven't
seen a flying RV6A in real life.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pat McClung <pmc123(at)airmail.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid Devices |
EDWARD COLE wrote:
>
> You wrote:
> >
> >
> >It's me again...
> >
> >I'm intending to install a wing leveler. As I understand it, this is
> best
> >done (or partly done) while constructing the wing. Can someone
> provide more
> >info than this? What goes in the wing? Both wings? Where does it
> go? At
> >what point do I need to buy whatever I need to buy?
> >
> >I understand Navaid has the most cost-effective unit that actually
> works well.
> >Comments? Does anyone have an updated status since the death of the
> company
> >founder? I know this has been asked before, but how about contact
> info?
> >pricing? Do I have other choices that don't cost a whole ton more?
> >
> >If I contact Navaid, will they be able to answer these questions a lot
> better?
> >
> >-Joe
> >
> >
>
> Joe,
> Navaid Devices still continues after the death of the founder. They
> will send you a package with rough drawing for the RV series if you
> call or write them. I got a package back in March.
> Navaid Devices Inc
> 641 North Market ST.
> Chattanooga, TN 37405
> (423)267-3311
>
> Ed Cole RV6A #24430
> ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
> >Joe Larson
> >
Joe, I have installe the NavAid--it goes in the floor under the right
seat and fastens to the bottom or the right stick. I use it all the
time---it tracks my GPS, levels wings on fuel imbalance and is
calibrated to indicate the customary standard rate turn for instrument
approaches. I think it is worth the money--it does take some tweeking
to get the adjustments set up but once done, it works great!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pat McClung <pmc123(at)airmail.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine stuff |
aol.com!EBundy2620(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> First off, I want to appologize to the list for some mail I had routed
> privately ending up on the list. Don't know what happened, but I'll try to
> keep it from happening again.
>
> On to engine question #445: How do you go about running an oil pressure line
> to an electric sender then on to the gauge? I bought an electric sender to
> avoid the hassle of running a tube into the cockpit. I thought I could just
> mount the sender on the engine.
>
> Well, aside from the fact that it's to big to fit into the 1/10 cubic inch
> space available, there seems to be some concern about vibration fatigue.
> Now, it looks to me like all of the Aeroquip hose fittings are for flared
> tube connections. So how does one run a hose to an 1/8" pipe thread (on the
> engine) to the 1/8" pipe connector on the sender? Then how do you mount the
> sender to the firewall? Or are there pipe connector ends available for the
> hoses that I'm missing?
>
> As an aside, what are the merits/disadvatages of Aeroquip 601 vs. 303 hose?
> I notice Van's only carries the 601, but in the Orndorff video he uses 303.
>
> Thanks to all for putting up with my questions.
> Ed Bundy
> ebundy2620(at)aol.com
Ed, You can find a fitting with pipe thread(engine) on one end and 1/8
flare on the other(line to sender). Then the same fitting on other end
into a 1/8 pipe coupling with sender on other end of coupling. Look in
ASS Catalog. As to hose--303 is covered in steel mesh and is much more
flexible--uses a different type fitting. I have used both types and
prefer the 303 because it is easier, more flexible, and doesn't require
special mandrels to install fittings on the end. For most of our RV
needs, either has sufficient pressure tolerence.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | fuel flow transducer |
Matt,
Todd Magargle here. I tried the transducer with the 45 degree fitting at
the input side.
It made an error of about 10 % at 5 gallons burned. I would have flown
longer but it was too hot & hazy. Anyhow it was enough to show an error. Now
, does the transducer have to be horizontal for accuracy ? Does the flow have
to be straight on the output side ? Just trying to see what I can do to
correct the problem. By the way I love it.
Thanks for your help
Todd Magargle
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine stuff |
Ed;
>First off, I want to appologize to the list for some mail I had routed
>privately ending up on the list. Don't know what happened, but I'll try
to>keep it from happening again.
So now we know who to lay all of the blame for everything on!!:-)
>
>How do you go about running an oil pressure line>to an electric sender then
on to the gauge? So how does one run a hose to an 1/8" pipe thread (on
the>engine) to the 1/8" pipe connector on the sender? Then how do you mount
the>sender to the firewall? Or are there pipe connector ends available for
the>hoses that I'm missing?
Try a copper tube with a loop in it between the sensor on the eng and the
sender. It must be approved because most Cessnas seem to have this set up.
It has worked on mine. There are fittings to convert from pipe to flare and
back.
>As an aside, what are the merits/disadvatages of Aeroquip 601 vs. 303
hose?> I notice Van's only carries the 601, but in the Orndorff video he
uses 303.
Don't know.
>Thanks to all for putting up with my questions.
I hope that's what this is for. What good was it to get an education
building an airplane if you can't help some one else with the gained
knowledge? Now, how much knowledge I gained may be questionable.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: More engine questions |
Ed; Sounds like you have a cable like I used. To describe: As you come down
the cable towards the engine end, there is the cable housing, then a sort of
ring collar end that has the groove in it, then there is a sheath housing
that swivels about 15 degrees, then the cable itself. If this sounds like
what you have, I never found a connector to hook in that ring groove. I
made it. A piece of angle that comes up, the grooved collar, and a piece
of .063 that is sort of like and upside down U that fits into the groove and
is then bolted onto the piece of angle. Like I said before, Rube Goldburg
would be proud of it. BUT IT WORKS!
Hang in there, if you can build an airplane, then building a bracket clamp
is a cinch!
John D
>I'm using rod ends on throttle AND mixture. I feel a lot more secure that
>way. But how do you attach the end of the cable housing to the support
>bracket? There is a groove cut in the cable jacket for the distinct
purpose>of a special clamp to grab it. I KNOW I've seen these clamps, but
I can't>find them in any of the catalogs. Any ideas?
>
>Thanks,
>Ed Bundy
>
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-List:Empennage Skins |
I have just finished building my wing & empennage jig and am now starting on
the HS rear spar of my RV-8. Since I am new to working with sheet metal, I
would like to get some input from some experienced builders. The manual says
to dimple the skeleton and skins for the horizontal and vertical stabilizer.
While watching George Orndorff's video I see that he was machine
countersinking these skins on his plane. It is my understanding that when
using #3 rivets in .032 aluminum you can use either method. Which method do
other builders use or prefer? Also when drilling holes to be dimpled for #3
rivets, does it work better to drill a 3/32 hole to allow for expansion when
dimpled or just drill a #40 hole as called for? Any input on these topics
will be appreciated. Thanks.
Tripp Myrick
RV-8 #80085
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-List:Empennage Skins |
I have just finished building my wing & empennage jig and am now starting on
the HS rear spar of my RV-8. Since I am new to working with sheet metal, I
would like to get some input from some experienced builders. The manual says
to dimple the skeleton and skins for the horizontal and vertical stabilizer.
While watching George Orndorff's video I see that he was machine
countersinking these skins on his plane. It is my understanding that when
using #3 rivets in .032 aluminum you can use either method. Which method do
other builders use or prefer? Also when drilling holes to be dimpled for #3
rivets, does it work better to drill a 3/32 hole to allow for expansion when
dimpled or just drill a #40 hole as called for? Any input on these topics
will be appreciated. Thanks.
Tripp Myrick
RV-8 #80085
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine stuff |
>As an aside, what are the merits/disadvatages of Aeroquip 601 vs. 303
>hose? I notice Van's only carries the 601, but in the Orndorff video
>he uses 303.
Hi Ed,
Just for info, I didn't use either. I went to my local industrial hose
supplier with the initial intent of geting 303, but he didnt have any
but.... he did have the industrial equivalent - not mil spec, but
BETTER performance specs than mil spec!!!. - higher temp range and
better pressure tolerances.It is the basically industrial equivalent
to 303 and I THINK!! it is called FL300???? ( it has a pretty blue
outer cover). I can look it up monday if you need the exact info.
So I went with it - and there was an additional bonus. There is a full
range of 100 degree/pipe etc. fittings that come to suit - that DO NOT
need mandrels to attach. They do not have the sharp middle screw
section like the "aircraft" fitings - which was custom designed to
screw up the hose I honestly believe :), they come in stainless steel,
and are less than half the price of the "real" ones. again I can get
you part numbers if you like.
In regard to 1/8 primer or manifold pressure gauge lines, I believe
that copper is the only way to go. (with the classical 2" vibration
loops of course) - Aluminum is just to flimsy when it gets to be real
small. I also don't like to use the aircraft fittings that are in this
iddy-biddy size, - since I don't trust my soldering-on ability of tiny
cones and things. I'd strongly recommend the simple brass compression
olives and fittings that can be obtained at your local hardware store.
(K.I.S.S. principle rules O.K.)
Hope this helps some... I can empathise with where you are at right
now... God bless Tony B. !! - lots of new skills to learn at once
when it comes to the finishing systems....
Best Regards
Rob Lee,
N517RL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: fuel flow transducer |
>--------------
>Matt,
>
>Todd Magargle here. I tried the transducer with the 45 degree fitting at
>the input side.
>
>It made an error of about 10 % at 5 gallons burned. I would have flown
>longer but it was too hot & hazy. Anyhow it was enough to show an error. Now,
>does the transducer have to be horizontal for accuracy ? Does the flow have
>to be straight on the output side ? Just trying to see what I can do to
>correct the problem. By the way I love it.
>
>Thanks for your help
>
>Todd Magargle
>--------------
Hi Todd,
I'm glad to hear you got the FuelScan up and working! That was quick!
For best accuracy, the transducer manufacturer strongly recommends that the
unit be mounted with the input and output in a horizontal plane and that
the wires protrude from the top. The straightness of the line on the
*output* side of the transducer is not too important, but the more
straightness you can get on the *input* side the better. Again, the flow
transducer manufacturer recommends at least 6 inches if possible, although
this might be a little tough.
How did you arrive at the 10% in 5 gallons error? When checking actual fuel
burn, I am finding based on input from other customers, that scientific method
is extremely important. Some of the important factors include, position of
the aircraft when fuel is pumped, air temperature, fuel temperature, who
pumps the fuel, and which fuel pump is used. All of these factors must be
duplicated nearly exactly when checking or adjusting the calibration. Be
sure to take a look at the section in the manual on adjusting the calibration
factor. You may very well need to perform this proceedure to dial in your
setup. Scientific method will be very important in achieving acceptable
results.
For example, Saturday morning you taxi over to the pumps around 9:00am and
fill up on Pump #2. The temperature is about 75 degrees. You clear the
Fuel Used display on the FuelScan and fly somewhere fun for breakfast then
back home. All told, 3.1 hours. You arrive back at your home base airport
about 3:00pm, and the temperature is about 95 degrees.
Don't try to calibrate the FuelScan now or even fill the tanks. The numbers
you will get at this time will not be particularly accruate. If you can,
come out the next morning at about the same time and repeat the fillup
procedure from the previous morning, then perform the calibration as described
in the manual. Carefully following these steps will dialin your setup as
accruately as possible.
Did you get a chance to check the GPS interface? Did you find the user
interface in general pretty straight forward?
Thanks for the input and feedback!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | N number (chatter) |
>Just had a thought. What if Jack Abell, Jim Anglin, John Andrews and I were
>to all converge on a controlled airport at the same time? Our RV's N
>numbers all end in JA. How many other RV's are there on the List with the
>same 'JA' ending??
>
>My choice was obvious; first aircraft built and an RV-"6".
>
>Jack, what about you? Is your number significant in some way to you??
>
>John Ammeter
Mine might have been NxxxJA, except I was influenced by a friend with N51RV
to use the RV ending while they were still available.
I have flown over a hundred hours with N51RV, and we recognized the confusion
that can occur with one aircraft calling 1RV and another calling 7RV. The
solution, first aircraft calls the last three numbers/letters (1RV) from the
second transmission and the second aircraft calls the first three
numbers/letters (47R) from the second transmission. Never got a complaint
from the tower, and eliminated confusion at the uncontrolled airports.
By the way, Kent Rockwell built and owns N51RV. Because of the quality of
his craftsmanship on his RV-3, he got a job with a small company
manufacturing aircraft. The company manufactures new P-51D's and TF-51's.
Jim Ayers
LesDrag(at)aol.com
1921 Dorrit St.
Newbury Park, Ca. 91320 USA
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
Flying 8 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Engine stuff |
>>
>>How do you go about running an oil pressure line>to an electric sender then
>on to the gauge? So how does one run a hose to an 1/8" pipe thread (on
>the>engine) to the 1/8" pipe connector on the sender? Then how do you mount
>the>sender to the firewall? Or are there pipe connector ends available for
>the>hoses that I'm missing?
>
>Try a copper tube with a loop in it between the sensor on the eng and the
>sender. It must be approved because most Cessnas seem to have this set up.
>It has worked on mine. There are fittings to convert from pipe to flare and
>back.
>>As an aside, what are the merits/disadvatages of Aeroquip 601 vs. 303
>hose?> I notice Van's only carries the 601, but in the Orndorff video he
>uses 303.
>
John & ED:
NOT a good idea for oil pressure!!! It's not a question of if it will break
but when. 303 or other flexible line works fine and the chance of failure
is remote. Copper loops are commonly used in manifold
pressure lines but if they fail it's no big deal. It's a BIG deal if you
break the oil or fuel pressure line. Also you should use a restriction
device such as a drilled rivet between the flared fitting and the hose
fitting. See Tony's books for pictures.
I have had 2 MP copper line failures in 2 years. They break.... trust me.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Engine stuff |
>
>NOT a good idea for oil pressure!!! It's not a question of if it will break
>but when. 303 or other flexible line works fine and the chance of failure
>is remote. Copper loops are commonly used in manifold
>pressure lines but if they fail it's no big deal. It's a BIG deal if you
>break the oil or fuel pressure line. Also you should use a restriction
>device such as a drilled rivet between the flared fitting and the hose
>fitting. See Tony's books for pictures.
>
>I have had 2 MP copper line failures in 2 years. They break.... trust me.
>
>Regards:
>Rusty Gossard
>N47RG RV-4 Flying
After I sent this I figured I would get zapped so here's more of my position.
Yes I know it's done. Yes I know Tony says you can do it.
However... There are a lot of things they do in Cessnas that I don't want in
my airplane.
A failure in a fuel or oil pressure line will take you down. For a few $
more you can put a flexible line in that has a greater chance of not breaking.
The first MP line failure I had was a hairline crack I couldn't find. The
second , The head of the union at the engine port failed. You could pull
the line out of the fitting. It was supported at the engine and
looped.....don't know why it broke, but it did.
This is a safety issue to me that I think can have catastrophic results.
It's your plane , do what you
want.
Regards:
Rusty
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen) |
| Subject: | Re: More engine questions |
You wrote:
I KNOW I've seen these clamps, but I can't
>find them in any of the catalogs. Any ideas?
>
>Thanks,
>Ed Bundy
>
Ed, Northwest Aero Products, Inc. in Auburn, WA makes those clamps.
They also makes a reduction drive for V-6s and V-8s. They make one
variety of cable clamp which is split. The two halves clamp over the
cable and then a threaded nut is screwed on. The clamps work like a
little collet (or drill chuck) which pinches and grabs the cable as the
nut is turned. Here is their address and phone number.
Northwest Aero Products, Inc.
2801 Academy Dr. SE
Auburn, WA 98092
Ph: (206) 735-5022
I have seen their cable clamps at an EAA meeting and they are beautiful
quality. I plan to use them on my RV when I get that far.
Peter B. Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com
_____________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | N517RL - Flight testing update |
Hi All....
I needed to write up the current status and events to now regarding
the engine performance etc. on my 6A. Thgere may be some Items of
interest here to the group.
First Flight was on May 21st, by Mark Frederick (Check Six!) of
Austin. The first flight was brief since he had a high CHT alarm go
off. The CHT never got to red line of 500F but did get up to about
460F on initial (and impressive!!) climb out. (OAT was about 90f)
So....
We remember the list and the talk on drilling out the main jet to
enrichen the mixture (Gary Corde) . The leanness being a function of
the Ram air effect of Van's FAB airbox. We drilled from a #40 drill
size to a # 36 drill size (in stages) and that got the high CHT to
where I could live with it for a while (420- 430 in climb out)...
So...
Now we can do some real checking. I have a Grand Rapids (excellent by
the way) Technologies Engine monitor. CHT & EGT on #1 and #4 - Started
to record temperature spreads etc - was appalled!!! No 1 ( in cruise
) was CHT 300 and EGT 900. While No 4 was CHT 400 and EGT 1350. Oops -
not good....far to big a spread...So....
Back to the drawing board. THe engine is a 150HP 0-320, pretty old -
indeed it has no suffix - and had been stored for 4 yrs when I got it.
Compressions are fine. We suspected a couple of problems, and made the
following changes:
1) replaced all intake pipe rubber tubes (I should have done it at
first,, I know...).
2) added the small verical baffle sections that "dam off" the front
top halves of the head and barrels on cylinders # 1 and #2 - the ones
that you see on production A/C if you look in the intakes - there, on
top of the entry "ramps".
Well, the rubber inlet tube on #4 did show some minor evidence of
leakage (or maybe it was my imagination?) but I do think that this was
the main culprit - in other words it was making #4 significantly
leaner and thus hotter than #1??
So...
Fire it up and off we jolly well go... Yippee !
In cruise at 1500 ft at 24" square - IAS 175 mph
temps are now... (OAT - 94F)
#1 CHT 380 - #4 CHT 395
#1 EGT 1250 - # 4 EGT 1270
Oil Temp 190 - 75psi
My next job will be to fit probes and a switch to allow readings from
#2 and #3, but for right now I'm delighted.
Have 10 hrs now... just 15 more to get done before OSH...If it wasn't
"80% chance of Tstorms" outside I'd be up now...
Hope the above helps someone.. It would have helped me!!!
Rob Lee - av8r(at)hic.net - RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:Empennage Skins |
> I have just finished building my wing & empennage jig and am now starting on
> the HS rear spar of my RV-8. Since I am new to working with sheet metal, I
> would like to get some input from some experienced builders. The manual says
> to dimple the skeleton and skins for the horizontal and vertical stabilizer.
> While watching George Orndorff's video I see that he was machine
> countersinking these skins on his plane. It is my understanding that when
> using #3 rivets in .032 aluminum you can use either method. Which method do
> other builders use or prefer? Also when drilling holes to be dimpled for #3
> rivets, does it work better to drill a 3/32 hole to allow for expansion when
> dimpled or just drill a #40 hole as called for? Any input on these topics
> will be appreciated. Thanks.
Tripp --
I machine countersunk my HS skins. If I were to do it over, I think I would
*probably* dimple them. Looking at it, one would think that machine c'sinking
would be easier, but I'm much happier with the results of dimpling. It's
supposed to be stronger, and it's easy to make mistakes when c'sinking. As I
remember, Van's tells you that you can do either.
All the builders who I've asked this of have said the same thing -- they would
dimple.
Regarding hole sizes -- yes, you want the hole slightly small. Instead of
using a #40, the conventional thought is to use a #41. Yeah, if you bought
the tool kit from Avery, they sold you #40s. I bought a set of #41s (4 or 5).
However, it's not just dimpling that you use the #41s. I was told by our
local EAA tech advisor to use 41 instead of 40 for everything. Reason: if you
are off just a smidge, you can elongate each hole slightly in order to shift
the parts together.
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine stuff |
>However... There are a lot of things they do in Cessnas that I don't want in
>my airplane.
>A failure in a fuel or oil pressure line will take you down. For a few $
>more you can put a flexible line in that has a greater chance of not breaking.
>
>The first MP line failure I had was a hairline crack I couldn't find. The
>second , The head of the union at the engine port failed. You could pull
>the line out of the fitting. It was supported at the engine and
>looped.....don't know why it broke, but it did.
>
>This is a safety issue to me that I think can have catastrophic results.
>It's your plane , do what you
>want.
>
>
>Regards:
>Rusty
Rusty, I agree. Stay with the flex hose. I intend to replace my MP line
and my primer lines after two years. Some people anneal the copper lines
and I guess that's OK, too. Builders, don't forget. Every time you bend
copper or aluminum lines, they will work harden. When I was fabricating my
fuel tank to fuel selector valbe, I threw away several lines because I
didn't get them bent to suit the first or second attempt. You can even feel
them "harden up". Best to keep them as soft and pliable as possible.
Flex hoses. There was a suggestion in a RVator about replacing Aeroquip
303 or 601 hoses every couple of years (when used for fuel), I believe. I
believe Aeroquip had a bulletin on this. Do they use this kind of hose for
the flop tube? I wonder how those so equipped will pull their tank and
replace this hose without damaging the paint.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More engine questions |
>Ed; Sounds like you have a cable like I used. To describe: As you come down
>the cable towards the engine end, there is the cable housing, then a sort of
>ring collar end that has the groove in it, then there is a sheath housing
>that swivels about 15 degrees, then the cable itself. If this sounds like
>what you have, I never found a connector to hook in that ring groove. I
>made it. A piece of angle that comes up, the grooved collar, and a piece
>of .063 that is sort of like and upside down U that fits into the groove and
>is then bolted onto the piece of angle. Like I said before, Rube Goldburg
>would be proud of it. BUT IT WORKS!
>Hang in there, if you can build an airplane, then building a bracket clamp
>is a cinch!
>John D
John, I did the same thing. I made my "U" bracket out of steel and bolted
it to the bottom of a plate that I made that is similar to the one you can
purchase from Van's that mounts on the two aft carb bolts. I used steel as
opposed to aluminum because I thought it would be less likely to crack and
fail. Also, I drilled a hole in the steel "U" bracke for safety wire to
sire the cable tight to the "U" bracket. Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:Empennage Skins |
>I have just finished building my wing & empennage jig and am now starting on
>the HS rear spar of my RV-8. Since I am new to working with sheet metal, I
>would like to get some input from some experienced builders. The manual says
>to dimple the skeleton and skins for the horizontal and vertical stabilizer.
> While watching George Orndorff's video I see that he was machine
>countersinking these skins on his plane. It is my understanding that when
>using #3 rivets in .032 aluminum you can use either method. Which method do
>other builders use or prefer? Also when drilling holes to be dimpled for #3
>rivets, does it work better to drill a 3/32 hole to allow for expansion when
>dimpled or just drill a #40 hole as called for? Any input on these topics
>will be appreciated. Thanks.
>
>
>Tripp Myrick
>RV-8 #80085
Tripp, I dimple countersink whenever possible using a # 41 split point
drill bit for the hole to be dimpled. I'm sure the archives cover this
subject pretty well. I think most builders (who know what they're doing, in
other words, agree with me :) ) would tell you to dimple. Boy, if this
isn't flame bait, I don't know what is. I could give you the long version,
but don't want to start another "primer war". Anyway, don't have time, now.
Gotta go fly my six.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:Empennage Skins |
You wrote:
The manual says
>to dimple the skeleton and skins for the horizontal and vertical
stabilizer.
> While watching George Orndorff's video I see that he was machine
>countersinking these skins on his plane. It is my understanding that
when
>using #3 rivets in .032 aluminum you can use either method. Which
method do
>other builders use or prefer? Also when drilling holes to be dimpled
for #3
>rivets, does it work better to drill a 3/32 hole to allow for
expansion when
>dimpled or just drill a #40 hole as called for? Any input on these
topics
>will be appreciated. Thanks.
>
>
>Tripp Myrick
>RV-8 #80085
>
>
Tripp, many of the experienced builders say to dimple whenever possible
-- it tends to make a stronger joint and more easily controlled flush
rivet. I have done both and, from now on, will dimple when possible.
Regarding drill hole size, I would try both if I were you and see which
one you feel more comfortable with. When squeezing or setting, the
rivet expands to fill such a small difference and I doubt if the
strength is measureably affected with either size hole.
Best regards,
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:Empennage Skins |
<960622224650_140818670(at)emout17.mail.aol.com>
| From: | Jack Abell <abell(at)rand.org> |
Dimpling produces a significantly stronger joint than countersinking in
0.032 in. material. Drill both skin and skelaton with a #41 bit. After
deburring and dimpling, an AN426AD3 rivet fits perfectly.
Jack Abell
RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rdunn(at)ionet.net (Ron Dunn) |
| Subject: | Re: Removal of protective covering on aluminum |
>Van's is now shipping aluminum sheet pieces (skins, wing spar webs, etc) with
>a clear plastic coating. I'm wondering at what point people are removing it.
>
>Leaving it on as long as possible means you'll scratch the parts up that much
>less.
>
>However, when you do remove it, you'll lose any layout markings you've drawn
>on the part.
>
>Comments?
>
>-Joe
>
Joe,
You will do a lot of installing, measuring, removing, marking,
re-installing, ckecking, removing, etc, of your skins on the HS. I got my HS
skin caught on an end rib (hung up on the inside plastic material) and
actually put a little bump in my HS skin. If I had it to do over, I would
remove the plastic from all interior parts (spars and inside skins)
immediately after I finished the HS rear spar.
As for you layout markings, I made my marking tool (per Van's drawings) out
of three popsicle sticks and super glue (make the hole only as big as a
Sharpie tip). Took about two minutes to make and it works fine. Remarked
my HS skeleton in no time at all.
I will use a soldering iron to score and remove an inch strip of plastic
centered on the rivet hole lines. I'm ready to dimple and although it
doesn't affect the fit, the plastic is the pits to remove from each
individual dimple. The soldering iron works great. I used it on the root
areas of the front spar channel (although I would now not bother and simply
remove the entire plastic covering at the start of front spar fabrication).
Good luck,
Ron
Ron Dunn #80078
RV-8 > HS in jig
Broken Arrow, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
>If you don't mind, I would like to hear the exact name of the hose
>you found and the name and address of the supplier.
> Bill Costello
Hi Bill,
happy to be of help...
The hose is Aeroquip FC300 - it should be available from any
industrial hose outlet - check your Yellow pages. I got mine at
National Hose here in Houston, (1321 So.Houston Road, Pasadena, Tx.
77502. Phone 713-920-2030), at about 1/2 the price of 303 from AS&S.
just for grins here is a direct comparison of the FC300 to 303...
construction:
FC 300 - AQP elastomer tube, polyester inner braid, single wire braid
reinforcement and blue polyester braid cover.
303 - synthetic rubber tube, textile inner braid,single wire braid
reinforcement and synthetic rubber impregnated textile braid cover.
application:
FC 300 - Hydraulics handling petroleum base fluids and air, gasoline,
fuel and lube oils.
303 - Hydraulics, air, gasoline, fuel and lube oils.
operating temperatures
FC300 - -55F to 300F, air to +250f
303 - -65 to 250F, air not to exceed 160F.
Typical specs (No.8 hose quoted)
FC300- I.D. 0.41", O.D. 0.76",max operating pressure 2000psi, min
burst pressure 8000psi, min. bend radius 4.62", wt lb per ft = 0.26
303- I.D. 0.41, O.D. 0.77", max operating pressure 2000 psi, min burst
pressure 8000psi, mbr 4.62", wt 0.26
Im quoting this from Aeroquip catalog JA316C "Fluid products handbook"
that they gave to me free (says $10 on the cover!) - get one if you
see one. If not local, try calling Aeroquip at 419-851-510, you might
get lucky.
The catalog also shows assembly instructions, and all the fittings.
For example, the ones I use are "mandrelless" such as part number
4411-8.(#8 straight swivel female end).
Just for info, I got all my hoses and fittings for oil system and
cooler, C/S prop, and gasoline lines for about $90.00
Let me know if I can help some more..
Best Regards,
Rob Lee - av8r(at)hic.net
N517RL - RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: rv-list: Governor Bracket |
The error in the instructions I found was that it
>said to just loosen the six screws and rotate the rear. You have to pull the
>screws completely out to do this.
>
If this is a Woodward you don't have to remove the screws to rotate the
control arm. Just loosen them. The problem you run into is the gasket sticks
and tends to break when you rotate the control arm assembly. (Been there and
done that)
If you break it, the gasket part number is 3056-510 and should be available
at your local engine shop for about $6.00.
By the way the arm is spring loaded toward flat pitch and the torque for the
screws is 18 to 22 inch pounds.
I built my own bracket for my installation and it's worked fine for 2 years.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: Removal of protective covering on aluminum |
Joe Larson asked:
>Van's is now shipping aluminum sheet pieces (skins, wing spar webs, etc) with
>a clear plastic coating. I'm wondering at what point people are removing it.
Well, unless you are trying to build a polished aluminum airplane, It
really doesn't matter when you remove the plastic. I remove it before I
dimple. I remove it before I use my high-speed die grinder/cutting wheel
(if you are going to cut the sheet with the ghigh-speed and a cutting
wheel, DEFINATELY take the plastic off. The first time I did not, it
wasn't real funny watching my cutting line shrivel up as the cutting wheel
heated the plastic.)
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
finishing kit on order
fuselage about to come out of the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | frankv(at)pec.co.nz |
| Subject: | Removal of protective covering on aluminum |
>Van's is now shipping aluminum sheet pieces (skins, wing spar webs,
>etc) with
>a clear plastic coating. I'm wondering at what point people are
>removing it.
>Leaving it on as long as possible means you'll scratch the parts up
>that much less.
Maybe... I found that small bits of aluminium tend to stick to the
plastic. Maybe they won't go right through and scratch that piece, but
I think they might scratch some other piece. Still, I think it's best
left on as long as possible.
>However, when you do remove it, you'll lose any layout markings
>you've drawn on the part.
My approach has been to remove it via soldering iron round the holes
I'm drilling, etc.
A couple of thoughts on the soldering iron idea:
Be gentle and fast with iron -- don't let it go right through the
plastic or you'll end up drawing lines on your aluminium with your
iron tip.
How toxic are the fumes given off by melting the plastic?
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:Empennage Skins |
Put the following motto on your wall in very large print. It will save you a
lot of trouble:
COUNTERSINK ONLY WHEN IT IS TOO THICK TO DIMPLE
Just an opinion, but saves a lot of money and thrown away skins.
Bruce Patton
Into finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | [Fwd: RV-4 plans/tail/jig for sale] |
Bob asked me to forward this to the Puget Sound RVator Newsletter for
publication. I figured the List might also be a good place to advertise it.
It sounds like a good deal to me.
>
> o RV-4 plans #3126 including all RVator's from 2/92 through the present.
>
> o RV-4 empannege kit with electric trim. Horizontal stabilizer skeleton
assembled.
>
> o Structural steel jig for use in assembling RV-(4,6,6A) empennage and wings.
>
>I'm asking $750 for everything; I'll consider parting things but would
prefer not to.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bob Lyon Home: (206) 639-0705
>25030 171st Avenue SE Work: (206) 865-8844
>Kent, WA 98042 Email: lyon(at)halcyon.com
>
>
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
Flying 5 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:Empennage Skins |
aol.com!BPattonsoa(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Put the following motto on your wall in very large print. It will save you a
> lot of trouble:
>
> COUNTERSINK ONLY WHEN IT IS TOO THICK TO DIMPLE
>
> Just an opinion, but saves a lot of money and thrown away skins.
>
> Bruce Patton
> Into finishing kit
I agree, countersink only when skins are too thick to
dimple. I dimpled my tail cone and was very pleased with
the results. Also, Vans now recommends dimpling the belly
pan (.040) on the 6 and 6A's (see the last RV ator). When I
built my tail I countersunk because I thought it would save
time but in looking back I would dimple them if I could do
it over. In fact I will on my next project.
chet razer finished riveting forward side skins.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HBenjamin(at)gnn.com (Harold Benjamin) |
| Subject: | Re: Wings: am I going crazy? |
In your message you said:
>In reading the directions under "Assembly Instructions for Factory
Drilled
>Spars: Factory Identification of Components", it says when
referring to the
>marks on the flange strips:
>
> Small dots are punched into the butt ends of the flange
strips;
> the single dot marks the bottom and the double dot the top.
>
>But I think that last part is exactly reversed from the markings
on
>my spar.
Joe,
The same thing happened to me. I was glad that I caught that one
before taking the thing apart! I used my own numbering system on
the ends of the spar flanges. Everything worked fine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Painting inside |
> I am starting to put various stuff inside the cabin area. At the
> moment it it a beautiful vomit colored green, being primed only. When
> is the best time to paint the inside of the cabin area? Is it best to
> mask rudder cables, fuel fittings, wiring etc, or pull it out to
> paint? Or is it best to paint now and patch up the chips later?
>
> All suggestions gratefully considered.
>
> Peter Bennett
> RV6 the right way up.
I painted the interior of my RV-6A with no instruments in the panel.
Actually the panel was painted seperately. Everything else was painted the
same Dave Grey as the putside primary color. I used the same paint. Any
interior attachments - seat backs, flap handles, rudder pedals, battery box,
etc,- were painted seperately on the bench.
I didn't mask off rudder cables or wire bundles. I did mask off the rudder
peddles as I had re-installed them. Having the tiltup canopy, it was removed,
but the rear windows were masked off. Rear bulkhead was painted on the bench.
Exterior surfaces of the gas lines (already installed) did get some paint
on them, but so what. Ends were taped off to interior would not get
contaiminated.
The interior was painted well before the airplane was ready to
fly.........
Hope that helps....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical conduit cut outs, wing |
>'ve figured out where I want to locate the conduit. My question is, what
>is everyone using as a conduit?
>
>Steve Allison
This wall 5/8" OD PVC tubing....... Drill the rib holes with a unibit.
Smooth interior allows for easier wire running. Ridgid enough so that it
can be installed AFTER the wing skins are riveted in place....
Available in most building supply places (ie, Home Depot...).
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
>
>Jim
>Working on HS, RV-6A. Where do you guys/gals find the time to
>keep up with this list & also work on the project ???
>
>James A. Tegeler, M.D.
>Radiation Oncology, Suite 94
>25 Monument Road
>York, PA 17403
>Phone: (717) 741-8180
>Fax: (717) 741-8196
>E-mail: rt_jtegeler(at)yorkhospital.edu
>
>
Some of us are already flying!
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV 700 Plus Hrs in 2 Yrs 9 Mo's.....
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: back in business |
To All,
After a three day drive and two weeks of unpacking and setting up Becki
and I are
back in business now in Ft Worth Tx.We hope to continue to serve the RV
builders with
faster server , and bigger and better product . We are adding new products
and service
so if we can be of any help our new Phone number is (817)439-3280.
Keep up the good work.......George and Becki Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | klgray(at)bihs.net (Ken Gray) |
| Subject: | Hoses and Connectors |
I too used the indust. type hoses on my oil lines, but
I
did notice the reason the indust. fittings did not require a mandrel for
faburcation. If you look at a aero fitting, 3/8 is 3/8 at the end of the
fitting, but the indust. fitting 3/8 is a lot less at the end of the fitting.
I used the hoses for oil, and used aero fittings, instead of indust fittings.
JUST MY COMMENTS, I WORK IN ELECTRONICS NOT HYDROLICS (?spelling).
klgray(at)bihs.net
Ken Gray
RV 6 - N69KG
105 hrs since Jan 12, 1996
Can't quit flying to do anything more!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larson, Joe" <Joseph.P.Larson(at)nmb.norwest.com> (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Riveting wing spar |
I'm on my wings. I'm thinking a couple of days out to when I need to start
riveting the spar together. The plans specifically say that my 2X/3X gun
won't work. I can guess that my Avery squeezer won't work, either. The
plans suggest two methods:
1. Pneumatic squeezer
2. The big Avery C-clamp-shaped tool we use when we dimple skins, using a
3 or 4-pound hammer
I don't own a #1, and at several hundred bucks a piece, would rather not buy
one. (Of course, if someone wanted to loan me one for a few days, I wouldn't
turn it down :-) Van's has some for rent, but I bet they're all in use.
I'd like some comments. Does #2 work? Does anyone else have a better method?
I haven't checked this -- are there any large rivets elsewhere in the wing
or even on the spar where a pneumatic squeezer might have trouble reaching?
Thanks again for everyone's help. Email I've gotten back in the last week or
so has been very informative, and I appreciate the support immensely.
-Joe
--
Joe Larson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
| Subject: | Wing skin overhang |
I must be blind... Can someone point out the drawing that identifies how
far the leading edge skin (not tank skin) goes over the spar.
Thanks all
Rick
74774.54(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov> |
A mechanic friend of mine suggested that I change the timing of my
O-320-E2A
150 hp Lycoming from the specified 25 degrees to 26. He has used this on
some engines whose owners had reported lack of power. Anyone have any
experience along these lines? Will this decrease the safety margin on
detonation? Thanks, Bob Skinner BSkinner(at)ltec.net
I won't answer your question directly but here's my opinion on the
subject. If you check a few airplanes in the field, you'll see that few
are within a tolerance of 1 degree of correct mag timing. The risk of
detonation on a 150 Lycoming (low compression cylinders) is much lower
than some of the high compression cylinders and applications that run
higher barrel temperatures. Realistically, I think (emphasize "think")
the difference between 25 and 26 degrees would be hardly noticable in
engine power on an O-320. Engine manufacturers have done extensive
testing over the past 50 or so years to come up with their published
timing. If you're experiencing lack of power, my fear would be that
you're trying to patch some other underlying problem.
Mitch Robbins
robbinm(at)chi.ntsb.gov
RV-4 N13MR flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Riveting wing spar |
Joe wrote...
>I can guess that my Avery squeezer won't work, either. The
>plans suggest two methods:
>1. Pneumatic squeezer
>2. The big Avery C-clamp-shaped tool we use when we dimple skins, using a
3 or 4-pound hammer
Hi Joe,
I used method 3. like described a couple of years ago by Tony B. in Sport
Aviation. Using a 1 ton Arbor press with the bottom plate drilled out for the
cup set. Worked very well, - a couple of hours each spar, no smilies, but a sore
arm from swinging a 4lb sledge 3 times per rivet. I think that there is also a
bunch of discussion on this subject on the archives.
Regards,
Rob Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Riveting wing spar |
Larson, Joe (Joe Larson) wrote:
>
> I'm on my wings. I'm thinking a couple of days out to when I need to start
> riveting the spar together. The plans specifically say that my 2X/3X gun
> won't work. I can guess that my Avery squeezer won't work, either. The
> plans suggest two methods:
>
> 1. Pneumatic squeezer
> 2. The big Avery C-clamp-shaped tool we use when we dimple skins, using a
> 3 or 4-pound hammer
>
> I don't own a #1, and at several hundred bucks a piece, would rather not buy
> one. (Of course, if someone wanted to loan me one for a few days, I wouldn't
> turn it down :-) Van's has some for rent, but I bet they're all in use.
>
> I'd like some comments. Does #2 work? Does anyone else have a better method?
> I haven't checked this -- are there any large rivets elsewhere in the wing
> or even on the spar where a pneumatic squeezer might have trouble reaching?
>
> Thanks again for everyone's help. Email I've gotten back in the last week or
> so has been very informative, and I appreciate the support immensely.
>
> -Joe
>
> --
> Joe LarsonJoe.. I have the rivet squeezer made from steel plates and a hydrolic
jack. I borrowed it from Doug. You may borrow it for your rivets. I'll
even show you how to beat it into submission.......:)
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine stuff |
>In regard to 1/8 primer or manifold pressure gauge lines, I believe
>that copper is the only way to go. (with the classical 2" vibration
>loops of course) - Aluminum is just to flimsy when it gets to be real
>small. I also don't like to use the aircraft fittings that are in this
>iddy-biddy size, - since I don't trust my soldering-on ability of tiny
>cones and things. I'd strongly recommend the simple brass compression
>olives and fittings that can be obtained at your local hardware store.
>(K.I.S.S. principle rules O.K.)
There is s distinct difference in the orficees of the compression type
fittings and the Brass AN fittings previously discribed. The brass fittings
were constucted to SPAY the fuel into the fuel intakes, while the hardware
store variety will just DUMP fuel, resulting in poor atomization and an
inferior prime. This approach may be no better than the carb pump prime and
have the same fire hazards.
Stick with the brass fittings, get somebody else to silver solder them.
Some times the old way is better...........
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
I am going to sign off the list.
It has been fun, educational, and you are a great group.
The IBM email is flying about personal use of the internet from IBM equipment
so I am going to pull the plug.
I will probably rejoin in the future from my home PC.
--------------------------------------------------------
*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
own and are independent of my employer.
Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Identifying parts |
>I'm hoping someone can tell me what one of my parts is. In the bag that
>contained the rod ends, there are these four pieces of aluminum. They look
>like the tip from a huge mechanical pencil. The pointy end is drilled and
>threaded to accept a threaded rod the same size as the male rod ends. The
>other end has a larger hole and is not threaded. Diameter of the thing is
>about an inch, and it's probably about 1.25 inches long.
Joe:
these are push/pull tube ends that get riveted into the alum push/pull
tubes used int eh elevator and aileron controls.....
>On a separate note, I'm *very* impressed with the wing kit. Just about
>everything is pre-drilled. All the skins are punched; it doesn't look
>like there's a lot to do on the spar; lightening holes are cut in most
>of the ribs; and the misc weird parts associated with the tanks are punched.
>Who needs a quick-build option?
>-Joe
Only those who want to build faster! Took me 4 mounths to complete the
tail feathers, then four months to do BOTH wings, including tanks and control
surfaces. The other 16 months to completion were fuselage and systems work.
Witht he quick build option, I could have cut the total time of two years,
3300 Hrs, down to almost half. For some, time is money. For others, less cost
means accepting more construction time. Me, I'd go the same way again, saving
money and spending more time. But then again, I have one to fly now.....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sheinlein(at)VNET.IBM.COM |
| Subject: | Wings: am I going crazy? |
>Question of the hour time. I'm disassembling my spars as shipped from Van's.
>In reading the directions under "Assembly Instructions for Factory Drilled
>Spars: Factory Identification of Components", it says when referring to the
>marks on the flange strips:
>
>Small dots are punched into the butt ends of the flange strips;
>the single dot marks the bottom and the double dot the top.
Joe,
It's interesting to see how most RV builders go through the same
"problems"... it's too bad Van's doesn't seem to use all the info
from the RV-list to update their plans/instructions. It sure would
benefit the future builders!
Anyway, I too puzzled over those little dots. Orignially, I tried
to interpret them as you have. But I think they are meant to be
deciphered a little differently. The following seems to work for my
set of spar pieces...
Don't view "top" and "bottom" for the spar as a WHOLE. This, as you
have noted, is obvious by the angle cut for the dihedral. Instead,
view "top" and "bottom" on the butt ends of the flange strips on
an individual flange strip basis.
- Any flange strip with a single dot will have the dot on it's bottom
(but these strips, when in the spar assembly, will be on top)
- Any flange strip with 2 dots will have these 2 dots on it's top
(but these strips, when in the spar assembly, will be on the bottom)
In other words, the dots signify the top and bottom of each individual
flange strip, not their relationship to each other in the spar.
This will prevent you from accidentally flipping a strip "over" and
having hole alignment problems! (very important!!!)
Very difficult for me to try and explain, but I hope this helps!
BTW, I randomly chose the RIGHT spar to start on. And I'm leaving
the LEFT one assembled as it came from the factory to look at in
case I get stuck putting the right one together. (security blanket!)
Stephen Heinlein
sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder bottom fairing |
I'm currently building my 8 rudder and have some questions. First off, at
the top of the rudder there is a counterbalance skin which, if I'm correct,
portrudes from beneath the rudder skin to wrap the top most rib (the
counterweight is on the top). Is that right? It looks like this leaves a
little "step" between the foreward most edge of the rudder skin and the
counterbalance strip.
The other question has to do with the method for attaching the rudder bottom
fairing. The plans show a strip which is attached to the bottom rib (on the
inside? Sandwiched between the skin and the rib flange?). As far as I
could see the manual made no mention or explanation of when to install this
strip, whether to use the same rivet holes that the skin/rib were using, or
to just use some others.
This is all compounded with the fact that I don't have my rudder bottom yet
(backordered) so I can't test fit it to see what's going on. I don't want
to rivet the whole rudder together to later find out I had to install those
strips between the rib and skin.
Can someone please explain how these are attached? I used to have the
Orndorff tapes, but some guy got my name & address from VAN's when he was
picking up his kit, he came over to my house to watch me work, and
"borrowed" my tapes (and a dozen clecos) before disappearing.
Any help would be appreciated (in either locating this guy who stole my
tapes or in explaining how to finish the top & bottom of the rudder)
Thanks,
-Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Hanna <peterh(at)rdmcorp.com> |
Is there anybody out there? Havn't received my usual diet of list messages
for a few days.
Peter Hanna, RDM Corp, 4-608 Weber St. North, Waterloo, Canada, N2V1K4,
B: 519 746 8483 X224, F: 519 746 3317,
Email: peterh(at)rdmcorp.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Regarding the recent questions about 1) Machine VS dimple c-sinking, and
2) setting wing spar rivets: Did you guys read the RV-list FAQ? There
is discussion of these and other often-hashed over issues in there.
Randall Henderson
randall(at)edt.com
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:Empennage Skins |
Hey Tripp, I countersunk my skins and if I had it to do over I would have
dimpled. The countersink is tedious and more time consuming. Cosmetically, I
think dimpled rivets would have looked better as well. Besides I generally
gravitate toward any process where I get to hit something with a big hammer;
mister finesse they call me. <:-)
Eric Henson
You wrote:
The manual says
>to dimple the skeleton and skins for the horizontal and vertical
stabilizer.
> While watching George Orndorff's video I see that he was machine
>countersinking these skins on his plane. It is my understanding that
when
>using #3 rivets in .032 aluminum you can use either method. Which
method do
>other builders use or prefer? Also when drilling holes to be dimpled
for #3
>rivets, does it work better to drill a 3/32 hole to allow for
expansion when
>dimpled or just drill a #40 hole as called for? Any input on these
topics
>will be appreciated. Thanks.
>
>
>Tripp Myrick
>RV-8 #80085
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Wings: am I going crazy? |
>
>On a separate issue -- I only have room to do one wing at a time. Does it
>make any diference at all which one I do first? Picking at random, I carried
>the left spar into the shop first.
>-Joe
>
Joe,
I reccommend the following sequence for one jig wing building:
1. Build ailerons and flaps.
2. Assemble the basic wing "frame" (all the stuff - except the skins, fuel
tank ribs, and ailerons/flaps) for one wing in the jig. Do NOT rivet yet.
3. Take it all apart and store the pieces in the spar shipping box.
4. Repeat #1 for the other wing, but this time leave it in the jig and
rivet the frame together.
5. Skin the frame in the jig, including fuel tank. Fit ailerons and
flaps. Remove finished wing from jig.
6. Now re-install the first wing frame in the jig and rivet frame together.
7. Finish this wing.
The advantages are less elapsed time between similar steps, making
that second wing go _much_ faster with less mistakes. Having the ailerons
and flaps on hand _before_ fitting saves creating a break from wing
construction, and lets you get to the second wing sooner. Again, less time
to forget "lessons learned".
... hope this helps .... Gil Alexander
PS. cut the spar shipping box to the length of the spar, and turn the cut
away section into a handy step stool for reaching the top of the wing while
it's in the jig.
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
RV6A, #20701, ... canopy still ...
EAA Tech Counselor, Chapter #40
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal & Suzanne Smith <smithhm(at)phoenix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Riveting wing spar |
Larson, Joe (Joe Larson) wrote:
>
> I'm on my wings. I'm thinking a couple of days out to when I need to start
> riveting the spar together. The plans specifically say that my 2X/3X gun
> won't work. I can guess that my Avery squeezer won't work, either. The
> plans suggest two methods:
>
> 1. Pneumatic squeezer
> 2. The big Avery C-clamp-shaped tool we use when we dimple skins, using a
> 3 or 4-pound hammer
> Joe Larson
Joe, I just finished riviting my main spar using Avery's dimpling
tool with a 4# hammer. It takes about 3 blows to set the rivit. Just
make sure the spar is clamped tightly around the rivit you are working
on and that the spar is level. For leveling I just used 2 x 4 and
1/4" plywood with some shims (the left over pieces from the lighting
holes). It all came out great (that is except my knees and back from
crawling around on the floor). It took me a couple of hours to rivit
each spar. Hopes this helps.
Oh, I am now working on the ribs. Use SK32A to locate the ribs and
ignor the other drawings. I could never make the dimensions
corrolate. I called Van's and varified that some of their dimensions
are 1/16" or more off. The skins were punched using the Sketch.
Also, attache the angles first and then the rib to the angle. To me
this works better.
Good luck,
Hal Smith RV-6A Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | patk(at)mail.ic.net (Patrick Kelley) |
| Subject: | New guy - sort of... |
Due to rising connect bills, I am moving my account from GNN.COM to
WWW.IC.NET, a local provider who will give me unlimited access. I'm also
working up a web page which will definitely have a section about my project.
In the meantime, I thought this might be a great opportunity to re-introduce
myself to the members, new and old.
I live in the Ann Arbor, MI, area as a result of my wife's acceptance to
University of Michigan Medical School as a student. I'm an early retiree
from IBM and am filling my time working as a programmer for American
International Airways, a part 121 cargo carrier (run by Connie Kalitta, the
former NHRA champion). Two effects of my situation: I have to make the
airframe kit last through two more years of school and two years of
residency. Since most of my money is going for tuition, this rule is doubly
enforced. Secondly, I am an apartment dweller and cannot afford shop space,
so my RV-6A is being built in my living room. During residency, we hope to
have a house with a garage, so I can do the fuselage. If not, I will be
renting a garage at that time.
Now the stage is set. I am sure there will be questions, but I would like to
cover some stuff now that has stood out to me as I've been doing this. I
have been at it for 17 months and have the empennage built and the wing spars
done; I am just getting ready to close the left fuel tank.
First item is the jig. Since I can't make it part of the apartment, it is
free-standing. Made of cedar 2x4 with a cedar 4x4 crosspost, it is braced in
the vertical axis with threaded rod and turnbuckles. I check level before
every work session, and anytime the jig is moved; it seldom requires
adjustment. The smell of cedar is more acceptable in the home (in fact, my
cats love to use the lower crosspost for scratching and posing) and not much
more expensive than other alternatives.
Second item: countersinking skins. I did and wish I hadn't. Results are OK,
but using a rivet shaver is not as easy or professional looking as I had
hoped. I've learned my lesson.
Third - riveting wing spars. I assembled my spars with hardware store bolts
(marked with black heads) in all the bolt locations. I used the 5# sledge
method and promptly spread the spar strips. After drilling out about 4
rivets, I proceeded to use spare bolts on either side of the rivet being set
so that the strips would remain together. Other note: I would start with the
long rivets first. The extra mass at the root end helps keep the work still
so you can get used to swinging the hammer. By the time you get to the light
tip end, you will have enough experience that you can divide your attention
to keeping the spar from bouncing. I have heard of others weighting the spar
down; this would be a good idea.
Fourth - prepunched skins. The skins provided with the kit a beautiful, but
I sweated building the skeleton accurately enough to match. To my relief,
the main skins are very close to exactly on. The outboard leading edge
matched at the spar but the leading edge was difficult to align. I resorted
to reaching through the lightening holes to align the rib flange centers on
the rivet lines. Difficult, but not bad. However, the tank skins are
another matter. There are no lightening holes to reach through. I started
at the top side from the spar to the leading edge and would line up the ribs
for a few holes, strap the skin down, drill and clecoe until the centerlines
started to wander, unstrap the skin, align a little more, etc. It would have
been much easier to jig the skeleton where I thought it should be (holding
the ribs in alignment with threaded rod) and mark the skins to match, as I
did with the empennage. If I ever do this again, I will ask for unpunched
skins and one piece main skins. By the way, I suspect that the fuselage will
not pose a similar problem.
Finally (and I apologise for this longish post), I would like to talk about
logistics. I had to plan my work carefully to avoid long stoppages. I have
no facility for painting, so my parts go to a friend for prepping and
priming. I try to have other things to work on while I wait. I also cannot
do glassing (or Pro-sealing) indoors, so I have to be able to work outside
which is problematic in Michigan - especially in Winter. All of my work
sessions require a clean-up afterward, as I cannot leave aluminum shavings on
the living room floor. Lastly, I have to plan my riveting sessions so as not
to disturb the neighbors. I have a Sears compressor that can be heard from
outside the apartment as a low hum (inside is as noisy as you would expect).
The rivet gun can be distinctly heard, but is not too loud to disturb folks
who are listening to TV or stereo. It would be annoying at night, tho. The
bottom line: it's not easy, but all the obstacles can be overcome with a
little planning and patience.
Like I said, I expect there will be questions. Feel free to contact me if
you are in the area; I'm surprisingly isolated despite the fact that there
are several builders relatively nearby, as well as the Michigan Wing of Van's
Air Force. I'd welcome visitors and would like to visit projects or flying
aircraft in the Ann Arbor - Detroit area. This list is great (and one of the
reasons my bill got so high ) and I am glad to be a part of it.
PatK - RV-6A - Proseal just arrived today!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gksugar(at)gate.net (gregory warr) |
| Subject: | Re: Engine timing |
In article Robbins Mitch writes:
>Received: from matronics.com by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP (8.6.12/SMI-4.1)
>Received: by matronics.com (4.1/SMI-4.1)
>Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
>From: Robbins Mitch <chi.ntsb.gov!ROBBINM(at)matronics.com>
>To: "'rv-list'"
>Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine timing
>Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 11:00:00 -0400
>Encoding: 28 TEXT
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0
>Message-Id: <96Jun24.105902edt.7367-2(at)firewall.ntsb.gov>
>Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Precedence: bulk
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> A mechanic friend of mine suggested that I change the timing of my
>O-320-E2A
>150 hp Lycoming from the specified 25 degrees to 26. He has used this on
>some engines whose owners had reported lack of power. Anyone have any
>experience along these lines? Will this decrease the safety margin on
>detonation? Thanks, Bob Skinner BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>Just a thought, but maybe one could refer to the Lycoming engine operational
hand book. It's that small red book that should come with the engine.It gives
all the operational limits for the lycoming engines....... or look on the
ring gear and see whats stamped on it ..25...or...26 degrees BTC. My engine is
a 320-D3G and the specs call for " 26 ".
Greg warr R-V 4 N 524 KW
gksugar(at)gate.net
old pilot...new plane
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
I recently had my Sensenich 70CM prop dynamically balanced. It made a
very noticable difference. Although the prop's static balance checked out
OK, on the engine it was much rougher than my wood prop. The most roughness
was in a range between idle and just over mag check rpm. It did smooth out
at cruise rpms. After dynamic balance, it ran considerably smoother. When
checking static balance, only the prop is checked, not the 4" extension,
spinner, front and rear bulkheads and bolts. Also, I assume that when
dynamically balancing you are balancing the ring gear and even internal
engine components.
I've owned 7 airplanes since 1975 and had never had the props dynamically
balanced. Our local FBO even says it is a waste of money. The guy that did
my prop did say that sometimes, things just work out right and the
engine/prop combination does not benifit from balancing. Most aircraft can,
to a certain extent. Mine benifited quite a bit. Having a balanced prop
can't help but translate into less wear and tear on the engine and airframe.
Now I understand what my friend with the 150 hp and flat mounts must have
meant when he said that was the roughest prop he's ever flown behind. It
would be interesting to put the Sensenich on his airplane and balance it out
to see if he was any happier with it, but I'm tired of messing with props.
Time to fly.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au> |
Hi,
I previously wrote;
>Hi Mitch,
> I too found it hard to easily find the center. Try this one
stolen from a book on woodwork.
>With a length of wood (somewhat longer than the channel is wide) drill a
hole at either end to fit a small dowell. >Find the exact center between
these dowells and drill another hole for a dowell shaped like a pencil.
>Rotate the tool so that the 2 outer dowells rest against the flanges of the
channel. The free moving center dowell can >then be pushed down onto the web
and the point will be at the centre.
\
o
-------------------------------------------
\
o
\
-------------------------------------------
o
\
and I was correctly taken to task. This only applies to non-tapering pieces.
To find the centre on tapering pieces mark as if the sides were parallel and
flip it over and mark the 'pretend centre' . The 'real' centre will be
between the two marks.
\ /
o o
-------------------------------------------
\ /
o
o
/ \
-------------------------------------------
/ o
/ \
Sorry about misleading any one. I must have been sniffing too much Proseal.
Royce Craven
roycec(at)ozemail.com.au
Royce Craven
roycec(at)ozemail.com.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Riveting wing spar |
>I'm on my wings. I'm thinking a couple of days out to when I need to start
>riveting the spar together. The plans specifically say that my 2X/3X gun
>won't work. I can guess that my Avery squeezer won't work, either. The
>plans suggest two methods:
>
>1. Pneumatic squeezer
>2. The big Avery C-clamp-shaped tool we use when we dimple skins, using a
> 3 or 4-pound hammer
>
>I don't own a #1, and at several hundred bucks a piece, would rather not buy
>one. (Of course, if someone wanted to loan me one for a few days, I
wouldn't
>turn it down :-) Van's has some for rent, but I bet they're all in use.
>
>Joe Larson
Where are you located, Joe?? I own a C squeezer for the 3/16 inch spar
rivets that's just setting in the garage right now.
It'll reach the rivets on both sides of the spar from one side of the spar.
It's already done two sets of RV-4 spars, and I haven't even gotten to my
RV-4 spars yet.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
1921 Dorrit St.
Newbury Park, Ca. 91320-3408
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen) |
| Subject: | Re: Test: anybody |
You wrote:
>
>Is there anybody out there? Havn't received my usual diet of list
messages
>for a few days.
>Peter Hanna, RDM Corp, 4-608 Weber St. North, Waterloo, Canada,
N2V1K4,
>B: 519 746 8483 X224, F: 519 746 3317,
>Email: peterh(at)rdmcorp.com
>
>Hi Peter,
Yup, I am out here on the list. I suspect there are lots of others
too.
Peter B. Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com
___________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: So long for now |
You wrote:
>
> I am going to sign off the list.
> It has been fun, educational, and you are a great group.
> The IBM email is flying about personal use of the internet from IBM
equipment
> so I am going to pull the plug.
> I will probably rejoin in the future from my home PC.
>--------------------------------------------------------
>*NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are
my
> own and are independent of my employer.
>
>Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
>mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
>
>
Thanks for all the help you have given us, Herman. Get back on from
home soon! We need your expertise!
Best regards,
Bill
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bennett" <bennett(at)healey.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: So long for now |
Pity. Such a handsome face. International RVator star.....
> I am going to sign off the list.
> It has been fun, educational, and you are a great group.
> The IBM email is flying about personal use of the internet from IBM equipment
> so I am going to pull the plug.
> I will probably rejoin in the future from my home PC.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> *NOTICE for internet mail*: Any ideas or thoughts expressed here are my
> own and are independent of my employer.
>
> Herman Dierks, Dept. E54S, AWSD, Austin, Texas
> mail: dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cecil Hatfield / Fourstar Printing <cecil(at)alto1.altonet.com> |
| Subject: | Wing skin overhang |
Rick, On drawing 21 (RV-6 plans) on the far right side and up from the
bottom 8 inches is section C-C'.
It shows one inch from outside edge of spar web is where you draw a line the
lenght of the spar. Thats where north and south meet. Ha
This is an important streight line, get it right.
Cecil Hatfield
Rv-6A (wings)
cecil(at)altonet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken.Hitchmough(at)IRAP.NRC.CA |
| Subject: | Final Inspection |
Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 09:01:00 -0500 (EST)
Importance: normal
A1-Type: MAIL
Hop-Count: 2
Well I finally did it.....!!
The final inspection on my RV6A took place this weekend. It felt worse
than going to the dentist (or having an MOT done on an old banger....Brit
readers will know what I mean).
The results were very satisfactory after 5 years of work and I thought I'd
post them for others to peruse:
1. I had no auxilliary outlet in my crankcase breather hose. If the end
ever froze up, my engine wouldn't be able to breath. The solution was
simple...put a small slice in the hose near the fitting. It closes itself
up but would open if the end ever got blocked.
2. I have fuel injection and consequently no carb heat. I do have the flap
with a lever and cable but no heat muff, so the air that would go in there
would be just warm.
My inspector wanted a completely separate alt air source AFTER the filter.
Again, the solution was fairly simple. I put a spring loaded flapper valve
in the centre of the air box. Now, if my air filter ever completely froze
up (highly unlikely I would think) or I got a bird down the intake, the
suction would open the flapper and I'd still get air to my engine. I
questioned this one with him quite a bit but he was adamant so I finally
succumbed and did it.
3. Placards placards placards placards.
Put push open on throttle, label top of my sticks with elevator trim (I
have electric), remove the word "experimental" from my plate, put arrows
on my canopy release, put fuel grade and quantity on my selector(I already
have this on the tank at the filler), label switches with off, and finally
install crew harnesses. This one got me...because I had to take them out
so he could do his inspection!! ANyway, it was easy to fix.
So, now its waiting time while the paperwork is done!
Ken
NEARLY THERE!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken.Hitchmough(at)IRAP.NRC.CA |
Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 09:05:00 -0500 (EST)
Importance: normal
A1-Type: MAIL
Hop-Count: 2
Ask this question to a group of people and watch the confusion that
results:
In a dual fuel gauge such as the Westach, where the needle on the left
goes over to a scale on the right (and vice versa), which is the reading
for the left tank....is it the left needle or the left scale?
It helps if you draw a picture.
Anyone got any words of wisdom on this? I would hate to be on finals with
one tank dry and confused over which to select!!
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | billphil(at)ix.netcom.com (William Phillips ) |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: Chatter from the OMABP on the Chevy R V-6 A |
(long)
>
> Ive had a lot of email asking whats going on at the OMABP.
>Well, not much. It got hot here in Vegas and we only work in the
>mornings, when we work at all. I left for Monterey for the week to
>cool off and Tom and John had other business through the week. What
>did happen is the spinner got a mount built for it and is now in place
>and we chucked the Edelbrock (Carter) 4 barrel carb for a Holley 2
>barrel. We started the airplane today and it ran good on the idle
>jets. But, we were in the hangar and it was too hot to take it
>outside to do a power run. Tom bought some mixture control device
>that mounts
>between the float bowl and the venturies and rigged a vernier control
>on it so we can lean manually. I think Jess will try to fly tomorrow
>or the next day if this carburetor allows then engine to run well.
>
> We had a little bit of a cooling problem the last time we flew in
>the heat and all. The spinner will vector air into the inlet ducts a
>little better and we want to see if we can keep it cool without some
>ducting modifications. The way the cooling works is that the air goes
>across the top of the engine to the radiator which is mounted between
>the firewall and the engine accessories. There are baffles that keep
>all the air that comes in, on top of the engine. After the air goes
>through the radiator, it goes down the firewall exiting through a cowl
>flap controlled exhaust vent in the lower cowling. We are losing a
>lot
>of air through the PSRU however. It simply goes down and back across
>the lower part of the engine under the ducting baffles. So, weve
>built a lightweight aluminum plate with holes in it and an adjustable
>back plate to pick how many holes we will use to bleed air down across
>the drive belt through the PSRU. I mounted a bunch of temperature
>probes inside the cowling to see what the temps will be in front of
>the
>header pipes and behind them. I dont want to kill all the flow but
>we
>do need better differential across the radiator and the PSRU bleed
>through is killing the pressure differential. So, the experiment
>tomorrow is to check the temperatures again and see what the spinner
>does. I dont think well be able to cool and Jess will have to back
>way off to about 17 inches of manifold pressure or the temps will run
>away on him. I do think however when we put that plate on the top of
>the PSRU and cut out about 80% of the bleed down, that will make a
>difference. Thats just my speculation, for what its worth.
>
>As you all can see, putting an automotive engine in an airplane isnt
>as easy as one might think. There seem to be hundreds of little
>details that we keep building around and fabricating parts for. Then
>something as simple as a carburetor gums up the whole process. That 4
>barrel Carter was just not meant for this engine thats for sure.
>Also, we are in a slow process of changing some of the parts that we
>used to " just get into the air." I dont like the two electric fuel
>pumps at all. I dont get uniform pressure and they are diaphragm
>pumps that make a lot of banging noise. I want the main one changed to
>a nice low pressure high volume QUIET pump with a pressure regulator
>to
>pick a pressure at about 4 psig.
>
>I bought a Magellan Skyblazer GPS the other day to use on some of the
>test hops Ill do in the near future. I want to get accurate airspeed
>and some other things that a GPS will make easy. What a nice rig. I
>flew direct to Monterey last week using it. The moving map gives a
>person a completely new lease on life. I just picked MRY and it told
>me how far and what track to fly. In route the scaleable moving map
>showed me all the close-by airports, navaids, along with my track,
>groundspeed, altitude, distance to the next waypoint (MRY) and a bunch
>of other stuff that I wasnt interested in, like restricted airspace
>etc.Im only kidding. I had used LORAN before but never with the
>moving map. The thing simply draws a highway in the sky and you
>follow
>it. Coming back I was about 100 miles west of Las Vegas, down below
>the mountains to I couldnt receive LAS VOR. But I cold hear approach
>control real well. So I asked the GPS to tell me where I was from LAS
>VOR. It said, "Sure, youre on the 259 degree radial at 83.3 nautical
>miles." So, being cool, I called approach and told them that and they
>said, "Yeah we see you out there at 83 DME on the 259 radial".
>Anyway,
>that might not impress those of you who have been using these for a
>long time. I was never one to fly between VORs unless I was IFR. I
>always drew a line on a map and went direct but thats a lot of work.
>This thing takes all the work out of it, you just follow the highway
>it
>paints for you.
>
>Have a Great Week, if anything neat happens Ill report it here.
>
>Bill Phillips from the Old Mens Airplane Building Project
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine timing |
<< A mechanic friend of mine suggested that I change the timing of my
O-320-E2A
150 hp Lycoming from the specified 25 degrees to 26. >>
This is a joke, right? a 1 deg change in spark timing is going to cure a
low power condition?
Denny
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david riehl <driehl(at)cycor.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Fuel Gauge |
IRAP.NRC.CA!Ken.Hitchmough(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Ask this question to a group of people and watch the confusion that
> results:
>
> In a dual fuel gauge such as the Westach, where the needle on the left
> goes over to a scale on the right (and vice versa), which is the reading
> for the left tank....is it the left needle or the left scale?
>
> It helps if you draw a picture.
>
> Anyone got any words of wisdom on this? I would hate to be on finals with
> one tank dry and confused over which to select!!
>
> Ken
>
left scale = left tank
right scale = right tank
David
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov> |
Thanks Greg! To prevent any confusion on the list. Our previous
discussion was directed toward changing the mag timing to a setting other
than the manufacturers specification, and the potential ramifications. I
agree with you 100% that the manufacturer's specs should be used. On
Lycoming engines, the ring gear and oil sump (location of the data plate)
are often swapped. The only necessarily correct mag timing specification
is located on the type data sheet.
Mitch Robbins
> A mechanic friend of mine suggested that I change the timing of my
>O-320-E2A
>150 hp Lycoming from the specified 25 degrees to 26. He has used this
on
>some engines whose owners had reported lack of power. Anyone have any
>experience along these lines? Will this decrease the safety margin on
>detonation? Thanks, Bob Skinner BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>Just a thought, but maybe one could refer to the Lycoming engine
operational
hand book. It's that small red book that should come with the engine.It
gives
all the operational limits for the lycoming engines....... or look on
the
ring gear and see whats stamped on it ..25...or...26 degrees BTC. My
engine
is
a 320-D3G and the specs call for " 26 ".
Greg warr R-V 4 N 524 KW
gksugar(at)gate.net
old pilot...new plane
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Prop balance |
Having a balanced prop
>can't help but translate into less wear and tear on the engine and airframe.
I'm close to Hartzell and I had them do mine. $187 and I did notice the
difference. IMHO money well spent.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BDStobbe <70743.2727(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Chatter; Final Inspection |
It seems ridiculous to me that inspectors continue to insist on labelling such
as "Push to Open" on the throttle. Has anybody ever seen it the other way?
Why limit it to that? Shouldn't we have "Pull for Up; Push for Down" on the
control yoke? Wait a minute, that wouldn't work since the theory is "pull back
a little and you go up; pull back some more and you come down...."
Now that I think of it, I'm going to label my throttle "Noise Control - Push to
Increase" and see if I get away with it.
BDStobbe
skinning fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DMusgrave(at)swri.edu |
charset=US-ASCII
Saw a Mustang II last weekend - thought it was an RV at first. Any
wisdom out there as to a comparison between the two??
Dave Musgrave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pilla(at)emmanuel.espinc.com (Michael Pilla) |
| Subject: | Re: Chatter; Final Inspection |
> It seems ridiculous to me that inspectors continue to insist on labelling such
> as "Push to Open" on the throttle. Has anybody ever seen it the other way?
Yup! The "Perch" helicopter has it just the opposite. I understand that
the kits will have it the "correct" way.
Amazing, isn't it?
Mike Pilla
pilla(at)espinc.com
RV-4, #2866, installing seats in fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Aeroelectric Connection |
Anybody know how to get a subscription to the Aeroelectric Connection? I've
attempted to order it via the publishers web page and snail mail as well,
three e-mails to Bob Nuckolls have gone unanswered. Help...!
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Johnson, Steve" <spjohnson(at)msmail.mmmg.com> |
Just a short note for those thinking of going to Oshkosh this year. I just
got off the phone trying to make reservations for Oshkosh for over an hour.
The best I could do was the Sheraton in Milwaukee for Aug. 2 and Aug. 3. I
know that's the wrong time to go in terms of crowds, but my wife's job makes
it necessary. I've been going on and off for the last ten years, but I've
never seen things this booked. Milwaukee is almost completely full right now.
Steve Johnson
spjohnson(at)mmm.com
RV-8, building jig, waiting for empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov> |
My experience is the RV's are easier to build and fly, although one could
probably build an MII for slightly less $ than an RV-4 or 6. The Mustang
is slightly faster, but sacrifices low speed stability and ground
handling. It also has a folding wing option and some buiders have
installed retracts.
I did some engineering work for mustang aeronautics a four or five years
ago, and flew for a summer on a mixed formation team in my RV-4 with a
Mustang II. In fact, the photo of N1117M, the prototype MII that Mustang
Aeronautics uses in some of their ads, was taken from my RV-4 over Lake
St. Clair, Michigan. Both airplanes were equipped with 150 hp lycomings.
My RV-4 had a Sterba 68 x 68 and the Mustang II had a Hartzell.
Although I never flew the MII, I flew the factory MI but did very little
acro in it. The Mustang II was slightly faster than the RV at cruise,
mid-range altitudes, which is what you might expect with the prop
difference. I suspect the mustang wing is slightly cleaner, with the
taper. He could eat me alive during descents. The frontal area of the
fuselage is wider than the RV-4 and slightly narrower than an RV-6. The
RV beats it hands down for easier ground handling, low speed stability,
and climb performance.
Chris Tieman, the owner of Mustang Aeronautics, has done an outstanding
job setting up kit production. He worked closely with Bob Bushby during
the first few years he took over, and is developing more and more prefab
parts, including prefabricated wing spars and carry through. He's worked
hard to keep costs down and produce a quality kit. He has a low cost
info pak and sells a demo video with some very nice flying footage that I
think is by itself worth the cost of the video. Although I'm not trying
to sell either the RV or the Mustang. If you're still trying to decide
what to build, the Mustang is worth looking into. You can reach Chris
Tieman at Mustang Aeronautics 810-589-9277.
Mitch Robbins
RV-4 Flying
robbinm(at)chi.ntsb.gov
Saw a Mustang II last weekend - thought it was an RV at first. Any
wisdom out there as to a comparison between the two??
Dave Musgrave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mustang II?? |
I have time in the Mustang II. It's nowhere as easy to fly as the RVs.
The little NLF wing stalls like a brick and ground handling is , well...
exciting. The unballanced elevator is heavy on the ground until you get
some speed up. All that aside it's a very fun airplane to fly. It has a
very fast roll rate and climbs at about 1500FPM with an O-320.
My dad built one in the '70s and still flys it now. He plans to hang-up
his wings soon and wants me to have the plane. At the rate I'm building my
-6, I'll be flying the mustang well before the -6.
Chris
>
> Saw a Mustang II last weekend - thought it was an RV at first. Any
> wisdom out there as to a comparison between the two??
>
> Dave Musgrave
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | frankv(at)pec.co.nz |
>You can reach
>Chris Tieman at Mustang Aeronautics 810-589-9277.
Also at mustangair(at)aol.com
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Mustang II?? |
> My dad built one in the '70s and still flys it now. He plans
> to hang-up his wings soon and wants me to have the plane. At the rate
> I'm building my -6, I'll be flying the mustang well before the -6.
Hmph. The bugger gets an engine for free.... Just don't tell dad where the
engine in your -6 came from....
:-)
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Measuring tip for beginners |
<960625182343_702420.204300_BHD54-59(at)CompuServe.COM>
| From: | Jack Abell <abell(at)rand.org> |
I received the following message this morning from Terry, our colleague in
Calgary, and thought it might be constructive to respond to it on the
rv-list. It pertains to the recent suggestion by Royce Craven for a tool
that finds the midpoints of channels. The point I made in a recent message
to the rv-list was that the tool would not work if the channel were
tapered. Terry's respone was:
Jack -- interestingly enough, I think so long as the edges of the piece
that you are working on are a straight, constant taper, I believe that the
device will still work. For example, the flange strip on the HS, which
taper constantly after a certain point, it appears as though the device
still works. I made a miniature version of it in aluminum...of course,
this is all based on 20 year old knowledge of grade school geometry!
Cheers...
Terry in Calgary
S/N 24414
"VS and Rudder
I hate to appear like a smart-ass or to be argumentative on the list, but
the issue seems to me to be worth clarifying. Consider a tapered aluminum
channel whose flanges converge at a constant rate. The ends of the
channel are precisely cut perpendicular to the centerline. Length is
always measured perpendicular to the true centerline. The two dowels of
the tool we fabricated are, say, 5.0 in. apart and, to keep things simple,
are infinitely slender. The center hole in the tool is precisely drilled
and will enable one to mark a point exactly halfway between the two
dowels. The channel is lying flat with its flanges pointing upward and
the wider end of the channel to the left. Apply the tool to the channel
in the manner described by Royce Craven at a point along the channel such
that the leftmost dowel of the tool touches the upper flange (in plan
view) of the channel at a point where the channel is exactly 3.0 in. wide.
Now, the question is where will the centerpoint of the tool be when the
rightmost dowel of the tool touches the other flange? I claim that unless
the tool is applied to the channel where it is exactly the same width as
the distance between the two dowels, the center point of the tool will not
lie over the centerline of the channel.
PROOF (on an intuitive level, or we'll be here all night): One can
calculate in a straightforward manner that, if the flanges of the channel
are parallel and 3.0 in. apart, the centerpoint of the tool will lie
exactly on the centerline of the spar. The rightmost dowel will lie at a
point on the lower flange exactly 4.0 in. to the right of the leftmost
dowel and exactly 3.0 in. below it. (Recall the 3-4-5 right triangle in
high school geometry?) The centerpoint of the tool will lie 1.5 in. below
the leftmost dowel and exactly 2.0 in. to the right of it. Now, keep the
leftmost dowel exactly where it is, i.e., where the channel is exactly 3.0
in. wide, but assume that the channel is now tapered in the manner
previously described, narrowing to the right. Note that one must now
rotate the tool slightly in a counterclockwise direction in order to touch
the lower flange with the rightmost dowel. In doing so, the centerpoint
of the tool is displaced above the centerline of the channel, which hasn't
moved.
Q. E. D.
The error is much more obvious if you imagine a more dramatic taper. Note,
too, that the use of a compass will result in accurate determination of the
centerline, but only if the compass point is positioned exactly the same
distance from the end of the channel for both arcs. Again, we assume that
the end is cut perpendicular to the channel centerline.
Sorry, boys, I didn't see how to make this any more clear or any more
terse. I find such centerlines by marking them on the other side of the
channel and extending them around the ends freehand by eyeball. It's
worked so far, but I was trained as an architect a hundred years ago and
manage to measure and mark things fairly well. I wouldn't recommend the
eyeball method to anyone with a compass and scale handy.
Jack Abell
RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aeroelectric Connection |
<1.5.4.16.19960625123506.42c78cea(at)popd.ix.netcom.com>
| From: | Jack Abell <abell(at)rand.org> |
Here are a couple of excerpts from earlier e-mail traffic from Bob
Nuckolls:
The AeroElectric Connection, an Information Service and Guide to Theory,
Operation, Design and Fabrication of Aircraft Elec trical Systems.
A book (270+ pages), newsletter and consult ing service offered
through Medicine River Press, 6936 Bainbridge Road, Wichita, KS
67226-1008. Phone (316) 685- 8617. e-mail to
72770.552(at)compuserve.com.
AeroElectric Connection, 6936 Bainbridge Road, Wichita, KS 67226-1008.
Hope this helps.
Jack Abell
RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aeroelectric Connection |
>Anybody know how to get a subscription to the Aeroelectric Connection? I've
>attempted to order it via the publishers web page and snail mail as well,
>three e-mails to Bob Nuckolls have gone unanswered. Help...!
>
>Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
>Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
Rob, I haven't seen Bob on the list for several days, maybe he's on
vacation. I think he's a real busy guy. I believe he works at Beech? He's
also doing some limited travel to put on seminars. I'll bet he'll get back
to you, don't get discouraged. He has some great ideas. I wish I would
have had his book when I did my first RV.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine timing |
><< A mechanic friend of mine suggested that I change the timing of my
> O-320-E2A
> 150 hp Lycoming from the specified 25 degrees to 26. >>
>
>
>This is a joke, right? a 1 deg change in spark timing is going to cure a
>low power condition?
>
>Denny
Denny, Denny, Denny, Everyone on the list knows that I'm always deadly
serious. This idea was presented to me by several people whose opinion I
generally respect. In fact, one of these people is someone who would be
instantly recognized my most on the list. My inclination is to always
follow specs, which is why I asked the question. I take it very seriously
when it comes to tinkering with my beloved engine.
When timing is advanced, octane requirements increase. The margin for
detonation and pre-ignition, decrease. However, with the 80 octane rated
O-320E2A, there is possibly some room for tinkering. It is my understanding
that the electronic systems available will advance timing quite a bit at
cruise, supposedly increasing fuel effeciency. It would seem that changing
timing would be changing the geometry of the valve train to a certain extent
which is what race car drivers and some after market cam suppliers for
aircraft engines do with their modified cams. Bob Skinner RV-6
BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
>Why limit it to that? Shouldn't we have "Pull for Up; Push for Down" on the
>control yoke? Wait a minute, that wouldn't work since the theory is "pull
back
>a little and you go up; pull back some more and you come down...."
The best description I've seen for the control stick was a label which
referred to it as a "BSR".
Where "BSR" is an acronym for "Building Size Regulator"
Jim Ayers
LesDrag(at)aol.com
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder (Just cut the exhaust pipes off 1 1/2
inchs inside the cowl to reduce external drag. Now were did I put the
ablative coating for the cowl wall?)
1921 Dorrit St.
Newbury Park, Ca. 91320-3408
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | OSH sign in for listers |
Hi Folks
This will be my first OSH, and I can hardly wait - first OSH - First
RV etc..... Looking forward to meeting some of you guys..
Anyway, I thought it would be neat to see who will be there from the
List - so I made up this Table - add your info after mine if you are
going to OSH, and then send it to me. I'll collate the info and repost
just before OSH. Then we can all print a copy for our pockets and take
it along. Should help us to know who to be looking out for !! If you
are taking some inferior mode of transportation - i.e. not an RV, :)
still let me know the other info please.
Regards
Rob Lee
N # |TYPE| COLORS | NAME | E-MAIL |ARRIVING
----------------------------------------------------------------------
N517RL| 6A |Dk. Green/Gray |Rob Lee |av8r(at)hic.net | 30th
N517RL| 6A |Dk. Green/Gray |Greg Bordellon|greg(at)brokersys.com| 30th
| | | | |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Fuel Gauge |
<< In a dual fuel gauge such as the Westach, where the needle on the left
goes over to a scale on the right (and vice versa), which is the reading
for the left tank....is it the left needle or the left scale?
>>
I give dual ultralight instruction, and my 2 seat ultralight has a Westach
EGT/CHT dual gauge. It's always confusing to new students which needle goes
where. The best way I've found to explain it is to ignore the "shaft" of the
needle and just use the painted tip for reference. Therefore, the left "tip"
(which originates from the right side, but we're ignoring that) is on the
left scale, which indicates the CHT. (or the left fuel tank in your case)
Of course you have to make sure you wire it that way... :)
Hope that helps.
-- Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mustang II?? |
> > My dad built one in the '70s and still flys it now. He plans
> > to hang-up his wings soon and wants me to have the plane. At the rate
> > I'm building my -6, I'll be flying the mustang well before the -6.
>
> Hmph. The bugger gets an engine for free.... Just don't tell dad where the
> engine in your -6 came from....
> :-)
>
Yeah, sure. That's assuming that I ever finish the -6 after I have another
sporty rip-snorter to fly.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | frankv(at)pec.co.nz |
| Subject: | Re: Measuring tip for beginners |
>PROOF (on an intuitive level, or we'll be here all night):
[Snip]
>In doing so, the
>centerpoint of the tool is displaced above the centerline of the channel,
>which hasn't moved.
I agree with this conclusion. Suggestion: draw what Jack's described
on the back of an envelope... it's much easier to see what's going on.
However, this approach may still be useful for tapered spars, I think:
Lay the two spar halves so that the tapers are in opposite directions.
You now have 2 parallel edges. Drill the hole 1/4 of the way from one
end. Mark the centre of one spar, then reverse the tool to do the
other.
I've just spent an hour or more thinking about a
tapered-spar-centrelining tool, and convinced myself twice that it
can't be done, and once that it can be! I'm now back to 'it can be',
and think that the ratio
distance between dowel A and hole H
------------------------------------
distance between dowel A and dowel B
which is the same as
spar width at hole H
---------------------
spar width at dowel B
is part of the answer.
However the trigonometry involved beyond this point is beginning to
hurt my brain. Anyone out there with a class of undergrad trig
students in need of an assignment?
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aeroelectric Connection |
>
>Here are a couple of excerpts from earlier e-mail traffic from Bob
>Nuckolls:
>
Thanks for the info Jack. I guess i'll keep trying the avenues you
listed...they're bound to respond sometime I hope.
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GHLX34A(at)prodigy.com (MR GEORGE T KILISHEK) |
I recently finished riveting the rear spar assembly of my RV-8. Now
if find that it has bowed, in the direction of the spar flanges
(toward the rear of the aircraft). Bow is about 1/2" on one end and
1-1/4" on the other.
Is this something I should be worried about, or will all of that
structure and all of those rivets hold it in alignment?
Also, any idea how this happens? Differential thermal expansion
between steel reinforcements and AL2 spar channel? (My workshop has
gotten very hot recently with the onset of the Texas summer.
Thanks
George Kilishek
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Aeroelectric Connection |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB62F4.507F8FA0
Rob,
I got in touch with Bob Nuckels via his E-Mail and ordered my =
subscription. Are you sure you are using the right address? Maybe Bob =
is traveling. I also spoke with him on the phone. He is one heck of a =
nice guy. His E-mail address is 72770.552 at compuserve. His home phone =
is (316) 685-8617 and I'm sure he wouldn't mind if you called. The book =
is worth it. Al N162NV (res)
----------
From: r.acker[SMTP:ix.netcom.com!r.acker(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 1996 3:33 PM
Subject: RV-List: Aeroelectric Connection
Anybody know how to get a subscription to the Aeroelectric Connection? =
I've
attempted to order it via the publishers web page and snail mail as =
well,
three e-mails to Bob Nuckolls have gone unanswered. Help...!
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB62F4.507F8FA0
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BB62F4.507F8FA0--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gregory Young" <gyoung(at)Net1.Net> |
| Subject: | Re: HS REAR SPAR |
I had a twist in my HS spar and called Van's about it. They were surprised
I even checked but basic answer is if you can straighten it with
reasonable hand pressure then the jig and remaining structure will keep it
straight. I could, it did and I don't worry about things like that now.
It's good to get that first reality check over with early. Enjoy!
--
Greg Young
gyoung(at)net1.net
Citabria N90AV
RV-6 s/n 23070 - just starting wings
----------
> From: MR GEORGE T KILISHEK <prodigy.com!GHLX34A(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: HS REAR SPAR
> Date: Tuesday, 1996 June, 25 19:00 PM
>
> I recently finished riveting the rear spar assembly of my RV-8. Now
> if find that it has bowed, in the direction of the spar flanges
> (toward the rear of the aircraft). Bow is about 1/2" on one end and
> 1-1/4" on the other.
>
> Is this something I should be worried about, or will all of that
> structure and all of those rivets hold it in alignment?
>
> Also, any idea how this happens? Differential thermal expansion
> between steel reinforcements and AL2 spar channel? (My workshop has
> gotten very hot recently with the onset of the Texas summer.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> George Kilishek
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Measuring tip for beginners |
>
>I received the following message this morning from Terry, our colleague in
>Calgary, and thought it might be constructive to respond to it on the
>rv-list. It pertains to the recent suggestion by Royce Craven for a tool
>that finds the midpoints of channels. The point I made in a recent message
SNIP
>Sorry, boys, I didn't see how to make this any more clear or any more
>terse. I find such centerlines by marking them on the other side of the
>channel and extending them around the ends freehand by eyeball. It's
>worked so far, but I was trained as an architect a hundred years ago and
>manage to measure and mark things fairly well. I wouldn't recommend the
>eyeball method to anyone with a compass and scale handy.
>
>Jack Abell
>RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
I too battled with marking things in the middle of channels with flanges. If
you think the stab is fun, the flanges on the main spar are much more stress
inducing. The solution to my problems was a little tool by Sterret (?)
called a depth measuring protractor. It is a device that drops a little
ruler at 90 degrees to a small flat surface. Used to measure the depth of
holes I think. Put a regular ruler across the flanges rest this thing on it,
drop the little ruler on the tool till it contacts the web and make your
mark. The answer to a maiden's prayer.
Leo Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: OSH sign in for listers |
>Hi Folks
>
>This will be my first OSH, and I can hardly wait - first OSH - First
>RV etc..... Looking forward to meeting some of you guys..
>
> N # |TYPE| COLORS | NAME | E-MAIL |ARRIVING
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>N517RL| 6A |Dk. Green/Gray |Rob Lee |av8r(at)hic.net | 30th
>N517RL| 6A |Dk. Green/Gray |Greg Bordellon|greg(at)brokersys.com| 30th
>N77597|J-3 |Red and white |Michael Kosta |mikel(at)dimensional.com| 25th
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Importance: normal
| Subject: | restrictor fittings |
| From: | Klaus Roth <rothk(at)oims.med.siemens.de> |
It was recomended to use restrictor fittings for oil and fuel pressure in
several e-mails.
Can anybody tell me where to get these fittings ??
(I didn't find them in the ACS catalog.)
Klaus, RV 4
Germany
rothk(at)oims.med.siemens.de
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | nav/strobe lights |
Hi all:
I managed to set up a distributorship for nav/strobe/position lights today.
These units are the ones that have the white position light with the nav & "
piggyback" strobe (double flash), and mount on the wingtip.
I will sell them for $399 for the pair ( single flash $10 less), plus
shipping.
I will also have the "piggyback" nav/strobe, single or double flash.
Check six!
Mark
mlfred(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | patk(at)mail.ic.net (Patrick Kelley) |
| Subject: | Re: Engine timing |
>This is a joke, right? a 1 deg change in spark timing is going to cure a
>low power condition?
>
>Denny
Without speculating on the validity of the referenced idea, why should this
be a joke? "Timing is everything."
PatK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: restrictor fittings |
Klaus,
What you need to do is take a rivet and drill a small hole in it , then
place the rivet into the AN hose fitting. This acts as the restrictor . Any
futher question please write or call (817)439-3280.......George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: New guy - sort of... |
>I live in the Ann Arbor, MI, area as a result of my wife's acceptance to
>University of Michigan Medical School as a student. I'm an early retiree
>from IBM and am filling my time working as a programmer for American
>International Airways, a part 121 cargo carrier (run by Connie Kalitta, the
>former NHRA champion). Two effects of my situation: I have to make the
>airframe kit last through two more years of school and two years of
>residency. Since most of my money is going for tuition, this rule is doubly
>enforced. Secondly, I am an apartment dweller and cannot afford shop space,
>so my RV-6A is being built in my living room. During residency, we hope to
>have a house with a garage, so I can do the fuselage. If not, I will be
>renting a garage at that time.
>
>
Wow! With patience like that, you'll definately build a first class
airplane!. Congradulations on finding a way to construct your dream while
living in an apartment! Best of luck to you.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | patk(at)mail.ic.net (Patrick Kelley) |
| Subject: | Re: Measuring tip for beginners |
>However, this approach may still be useful for tapered spars, I think:
>Lay the two spar halves so that the tapers are in opposite directions.
>You now have 2 parallel edges. Drill the hole 1/4 of the way from one
>end. Mark the centre of one spar, then reverse the tool to do the
>other.
Sorry, it won't work. What you will get is a line parallel to the outer
flange. For instance, if you have spars that taper from 3 to 2 inches and
you start centered at the narrow end (1 inch from either flange), you will
arrive at the other end and find your mark displaced 1/2 inch toward the
outside flange. This technique *is* useful in marking lines parallel to a
flange on tapered pieces.
PatK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | patk(at)mail.ic.net (Patrick Kelley) |
| Subject: | Re: Measuring tip for beginners |
>Jack -- interestingly enough, I think so long as the edges of the piece
>that you are working on are a straight, constant taper, I believe that the
>device will still work. For example, the flange strip on the HS, which
>taper constantly after a certain point, it appears as though the device
>still works. I made a miniature version of it in aluminum...of course,
>this is all based on 20 year old knowledge of grade school geometry!
>Cheers...
>
>Terry in Calgary
>S/N 24414
>"VS and Rudder
Almost, but not quite. There will be a gradual curve (slight if the taper is
slight) toward the edge near the narrow end. Try it with a triangular piece
(also a straight constant taper) and see what happens as you get near the
tip. Sorry I don't know the math but I remember the practical demos.
PatK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles H Fink <CHFINK(at)envc.sandia.gov> |
>Saw a Mustang II last weekend - thought it was an RV at
>first. Any
>wisdom out there as to a comparison between the two??
>Dave Musgrave
Dave, The January, 1988 issue of Sport Aviation (page 21 to
23) ran an article titled "Showdown at Checkpoint Charley"
written by Don Norris which was an informal fly off between
Don Norris in a Mustang II and Dick VanGrunsven in his
RV-6. Both were powered by 160 HP Lycomings with CS
props.
The RV did very well. The Mustang has a 95 sq. ft. wing that
is 12% thick at the root tapering to 10%. One would think
the Mustang would be much faster with this smaller thinner
wing. Not so. It was a very even match. Contact the EAA
and they will send a copy of the article for a very reasonable
sum. Also on page 24, same issue, Dick has a article on fat
wings and an explanation of why the RV performed so well.
Both articles are worth reading.
On the somber side, Don Norris was killed in the crash of
the Mustang II a while back. I don't know the details of the
accident.
The Mustang II is more difficult to build but is a fine airplane.
I considered it but chose the 6 for numerous reasons. If you
want to know why I decided on the 6 contact me by E-mail
or surface rather than tie up the list.
Charles Fink RV-6 N548CF flying (19hr)
chfink(at)envc.sandia.gov
12313 Woodland N.E.
Albuquerque, NM 87112-2531
H505-292-8197 W505-848-0977
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dual Fuel Gauge |
You can set it up either way. If it were mine, I'd set it up for left
scale-left tank and right scale-right tank.
Actually, if it were mine, (or on mine) I have two seperate gauges
positioned down by the fuel selector gauge so that my pointer is always
pointing to the tank that is on.
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | inet(at)intellisys.net (brian whatcott) |
| Subject: | Re: Measuring tip for beginners |
>PROOF (on an intuitive level, or we'll be here all night):
////
Here's an even more pragmatic test:
on a taper section, mark the center;
then reversing the slope of the marking tool, mark the center again.
They will either coincide, or they won't.
(I guess they won't exactly...)
brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | inet(at)intellisys.net (brian whatcott) |
| Subject: | Re: Measuring tip for beginners |
>However the trigonometry involved beyond this point is beginning to
>hurt my brain. Anyone out there with a class of undergrad trig
>students in need of an assignment?
>
On a taper section, mark a 'center'.
Reverse the tool.
Mark another 'center'.
The center-line is midway between the marks.
brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | inet(at)intellisys.net (brian whatcott) |
| Subject: | Re: Measuring tip for beginners |
>PROOF (on an intuitive level, or we'll be here all night):
////
Here's an even more pragmatic test:
on a taper section, mark the center;
then reversing the slope of the marking tool, mark the center again.
They will either coincide, or they won't.
(I guess they won't exactly...)
brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aeroelectric Connection |
>to you, don't get discouraged. He has some great ideas. I wish I would
>have had his book when I did my first RV.
>Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>
I read his article in the Sportplane Resource Guide I got at sun'n'fun. I
was very impressed with his methods and have been trying to order a copy
since *MAY*. That's the reason I finally posted here :(
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Gieseking <egieseki(at)sisna.com> |
| Subject: | Re: nav/strobe lights |
>Hi all:
>I managed to set up a distributorship for nav/strobe/position lights today.
Mark,
I have a couple of questions re: the lights:
1) How much current do they draw?
2) How many flashes per second?
3) Are they synchronized?
4) Does your price include an installation kit?
5) What is the candle power?
Thanks,
Ed Gieseking
egieseki(at)sisna.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Measuring tip for beginners |
I have been on vacation so I missed some of this thred, so if somebody has
already posted this method I missed it.
The easy way to find the center of any part, be it tapered or not is to use
a simple adjustable square. Adjust the square to about half of the width
of the part and draw a line across the end of the blade on the part. Flip
the square over and draw a second line from the othe side. On a straight
part you may have to adjust the square again to get the two lines too match.
On a tapered part they will cross at some point. In any case, where the
lines come together is the center of the part. Simple, quick and easy.
Chris
>
> Almost, but not quite. There will be a gradual curve (slight if the taper is
> slight) toward the edge near the narrow end. Try it with a triangular piece
> (also a straight constant taper) and see what happens as you get near the
> tip. Sorry I don't know the math but I remember the practical demos.
>
> PatK
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harold Sutphin <hsutphin(at)magicnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Measuring tip for beginners |
If you wanted to use an idea similar to the one talked about in this
thread of discussion to find the center of a tapered spar, try this
concept;
For the example, visualize two tongue depressor size sticks with a hole
drilled in both ends of each stick. Instead of a center finding hole,
rout a slot on the centerline of each from end to end(do not rout into
the hole previously drilled). Install dowels in the four holes.
To use, place the sticks over your spar in an X configuration with the
dowels on the outside of and butted up against the flanges. Using a
marker inserted at the intersection of the sticks, you can now mark the
center of a tapered spar web. The intersection of the overlapping slots
on the sticks will be a diamond shaped hole.
I'm not sure if this is more trouble than its worth, but it would
conceptually account for the taper. This will also pass the test
mentioned below.
Harold
RV-6A
brian whatcott wrote:
>
> >PROOF (on an intuitive level, or we'll be here all night):
>
> ////
>
> Here's an even more pragmatic test:
> on a taper section, mark the center;
> then reversing the slope of the marking tool, mark the center again.
> They will either coincide, or they won't.
> (I guess they won't exactly...)
>
> brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Final Inspection |
Ken:
Congradulations on the final inspection! But, now the fun REALLY begins!
Keep us posted on you first flight.
Interesting arrangement for the carb box (see below). Could you give us
more details on how you fabricated the flapper mechanism.
Not knowing what the differences are between the carbureted entake and a
fuel injected intake, I'm not sure where the air filter is on your
installation. I have a carbureted engine and the filter is at the base of the
carb. one of my fears flying IFR is icing up of the intake filter and no way
to melt it off fast enough. The Carb heat air source comes in before the air
filter, but, is servere icing conditions (like a short period of freezing
rain where ice accumilated FAST), I'm not sure that it would be 100%
effective if not put ON right away.
Thanks for the input in advance....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
> My inspector wanted a completely separate alt air source AFTER the
filter.
>
> Again, the solution was fairly simple. I put a spring loaded flapper
>valve
> in the centre of the air box. Now, if my air filter ever completely
froze
>
> up (highly unlikely I would think) or I got a bird down the intake, the
> suction would open the flapper and I'd still get air to my engine. I
> questioned this one with him quite a bit but he was adamant so I finally
> succumbed and did it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harold Sutphin <hsutphin(at)magicnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Marking centers |
An addendum to the post I just made on the marking tool idea -
The ends of the sticks would have to be placed at the same distance down
the spar to make the center mark accurate where they overlap.
hey it was only a concept right??
Harold
RV-6A //Waiting on wingkit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ecole(at)ix.netcom.com (EDWARD COLE) |
| Subject: | Re: Aeroelectric Connection |
You wrote:
>
>Anybody know how to get a subscription to the Aeroelectric Connection?
I've
>attempted to order it via the publishers web page and snail mail as
well,
>three e-mails to Bob Nuckolls have gone unanswered. Help...!
>
>Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
>Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
>
>
Rob
Bob has always answered quickly in the past. Maybe he's on vacation.
I ordered mine through his email address on compuserve with no problem.
Ed Cole RV6A #24430
ecole(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: nav/strobe lights |
Did I miss an earlier post? What kind of strobes are these? What are
the specs (joules, candlepower, etc)?
Randall Henderson
randall(at)edt.com
RV-6
> Hi all:
> I managed to set up a distributorship for nav/strobe/position lights today.
> These units are the ones that have the white position light with the nav & "
> piggyback" strobe (double flash), and mount on the wingtip.
> I will sell them for $399 for the pair ( single flash $10 less), plus
> shipping.
> I will also have the "piggyback" nav/strobe, single or double flash.
>
>
> Check six!
> Mark
> mlfred(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | Re: Measuring tip for beginners |
There are lots of different, equally valid ways of measuring things.
Pick one you like and get on with it. Remember to keep it simple
(KISS).
If you are on the empennage spars, there are MANY more solutions to
find ahead of you than those already found.
I bet if I did an archive search on this subject I could write a book.
:)
David Fried
DF-6 C-____
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-List: Measuring tip for beginners
Date: 6/26/96 01:43 PM
If you wanted to use an idea similar to the one talked about in this
thread of discussion to find the center of a tapered spar, try this
concept;
For the example, visualize two tongue depressor size sticks with a hole
drilled in both ends of each stick. Instead of a center finding hole,
rout a slot on the centerline of each from end to end(do not rout into
the hole previously drilled). Install dowels in the four holes.
To use, place the sticks over your spar in an X configuration with the
dowels on the outside of and butted up against the flanges. Using a
marker inserted at the intersection of the sticks, you can now mark the
center of a tapered spar web. The intersection of the overlapping slots
on the sticks will be a diamond shaped hole.
I'm not sure if this is more trouble than its worth, but it would
conceptually account for the taper. This will also pass the test
mentioned below.
Harold
RV-6A
brian whatcott wrote:
>
> >PROOF (on an intuitive level, or we'll be here all night):
>
> ////
>
> Here's an even more pragmatic test:
> on a taper section, mark the center;
> then reversing the slope of the marking tool, mark the center again.
> They will either coincide, or they won't.
> (I guess they won't exactly...)
>
> brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
RVer's, Sorry for the time lag. I've been busy flying back and forth to
Wyoming, looking at property. I called the post office and they indicated
that a 35mm film canister had to be placed in an envelope for mailing.
Envelope cost $.90. Postage would probably be around $.80. I don't know
how many film canisters of fuel lube are in a can. I figured that $5.00
should cover everything. It's not a "profit center" for me and it does cost
time and money to dig the stuff out, bag it and drive to town to mail it. I
wish it could be less. It would be ideal if a group could purchase a can.
A can would cover a large group for a very long time. Anyway, what ever
suits you.
You can mail me $5.00 to: Bob Skinner, 43461 Rd 757, Lexington, NE
68850 and I'll send it out. (Give me a few days, I may get stuck in
Wyoming with my RV.) You might E-mail me off the list & tell me your
sending the money and I'll try to have everything packed and ready (don't
want to fill a bunch of canisters that won't be mailed). Don't forget to
include your name and mailing address.
Bob Skinner BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | eilts(at)sg37.dseg.ti.com (Henry Eilts) |
To all,
Bob Skinner asked this question, which has prompted some discussion, so
I am adding my 2 cents to it.
> A mechanic friend of mine suggested that I change the timing of my
> O-320-E2A 150 hp Lycoming from the specified 25 degrees to 26.
A friend of mine was doing a 100 hour inspection on his plane and went
to great trouble to set up both mags so that they fired simultaneously
(as set via the #1 cylinder). Then, just for grins, he looked at the
timing relative to the other cylinders. Guess what. They were off by
7 degrees, one mag relative to the other.
So, he went to our local mag expert, who put the mags in his mag
checking machine, and found that the cams in the mags would not open
the points consistently from lobe to lobe. So, they installed new
cams. Same symptoms. After several attempts, they finally found one
cams that would open the points withing 2 degrees lobe to lobe.
My friend reinstalled the mags on his plane and reset his timing. As
installed, when both mags were synchronous relative to #1 cylinder,
they were off by 3 degrees on the others.
Then, he played with the timing of mags relative to the engine to try
to obtain a situation where the mags were firing the cylinders at the
same time BTDC for all cylinders. This involved advancing one mag
relative to the other a bit. With this setup, the mags are not
synchronous with each other relative to any cylinder. However, at
least one of the mags fires very close to when it is supposed to fire,
and the other mag lags behind a few degrees.
After all of this, what does he think he gained in all this. Other
than knowledge, the engine is supposedly much smoother. I say
supposedly, because human perception is sometimes inaccurate.
That is all. Food for thought. By the way, the engine is a Lycomming
O-320 and the plane is a piper warrior.
Hank Eilts
eilts(at)ti.com
PS. I have never been inside an aircraft mag. I am relating this to
you as described to me, but my perspective is from an automotive
distributor point of view, and there may be some errors.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KHarrill(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Riveting wing spar |
>Larson, Joe (Joe Larson) wrote:
>>
>> I'm on my wings. I'm thinking a couple of days out to when I need to start
>> riveting the spar together. The plans specifically say that my 2X/3X gun
>> won't work. I can guess that my Avery squeezer won't work, either. The
>> plans suggest two methods:
>>
>> 1. Pneumatic squeezer
>> 2. The big Avery C-clamp-shaped tool we use when we dimple skins, using a
>> 3 or 4-pound hammer
>
>> Joe Larson
>
>Joe, I just finished riviting my main spar using Avery's dimpling
>tool with a 4# hammer. It takes about 3 blows to set the rivit. Just
>make sure the spar is clamped tightly around the rivit you are working
>on and that the spar is level. For leveling I just used 2 x 4 and
>1/4" plywood with some shims (the left over pieces from the lighting
>holes). It all came out great (that is except my knees and back from
>crawling around on the floor). It took me a couple of hours to rivit
>each spar. Hopes this helps.
>
>Oh, I am now working on the ribs. Use SK32A to locate the ribs and
>ignor the other drawings. I could never make the dimensions
>corrolate. I called Van's and varified that some of their dimensions
>are 1/16" or more off. The skins were punched using the Sketch.
>Also, attache the angles first and then the rib to the angle. To me
>this works better.
>
>Good luck,
>
>Hal Smith RV-6A Wings
Joe,
My experience was very much like Hal's, except he apparently works much
faster than me. I used a four pound hammer and it usually took three to four
blows. Clamp the flange strips as close to the hole being riveted as
possible. A common problem when using the hammer method is for the flange
strips to separate . It is most likely to happen outboard of the tiedown,
where the flange strip is thinner. Some separation due to bowing of the spar
web is apparently not a structural problem if it is outboard of the tiedown.
Call Van's if it happens.
One thing that seemed to make a difference is to carefully position the
flush set squarely in the center of the rivet. Hold the spar down to prevent
any bounce. You must get the reinforcement for the Avery tool to set these
big rivets.
Hal's comment about using SK32A is right on the money. I probably wasted
a whole day trying to make all the measurements agree on both wings. Just
use this sketch and mark the rivet lines from the prepunched skins on the
spar as a check.
Hope this helps!
Ken Harrill
RV - 6, wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Riveting Advice Needed |
Hey guys I need a little riveting advice. I was preparing
my two bottom skins (F676 and F677) to rivet when I realized
I had accidently dimpled all my baggage compartment and seat
ribs. I will not be able to dimple F676 and countersink
F677 and the seat and cockpit ribs. Question is: should I
go ahead and dimple the two skins where they over lap and
then rivet them to dimpled ribs or should I flatten out the
seat and baggage compartment ribs that have been dimpled and
then rivet a dimpled skin into machine countersunk backings.
This only pertains to the single line of lap joint rivets
where the two skins meet (see lower left diagram of drawing
36.
chet: still having occasional stupid attacks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles H Fink <CHFINK(at)envc.sandia.gov> |
| Subject: | Ignition timeing |
Here is my 2c on engine timing. Two of the concerns
mentioned for not altering timing beyond factory limits,
preigintion and detonation, are not primarily caused by
improper ignition timing.
Preignition occurs when a hot spot in the cylinder ignites the
fuel/air mixture before the mags fires the spark plugs. This
places a heavy load on the engine that is not good for
longevity. The hot spots typically occur from running with a
mixture that is too lean, overheating the valves, piston, and
cylinder.
Detonation is more serious. When it occurs the entire
fuel/air mixture explodes rather than burns. This condition
produces very high loads on the engine and will result in the
destruction of the engine if allowed to continue for very long.
Detonation is usually caused by a combination of lean
mixture and high cylinder temperature which heats the
fuel/air mixture beyond normal limits. Also the higher the
compression ratio the greater the chance of detonation due
to the additional heating of the mixture from the greater
compression.
Improper timing can contribute to both but the timing must
be well beyond limits on the order of 15 to 20 degrees out.
Very Basic Theory: The fuel/air mixture burns at a steady
rate in an engine. It begins to burn before the piston reaches
the top of its compression stroke so that the burn will be
completed before the exhaust valve opens near the bottom
of the power stroke. The engine produces power by the force
exerted on the piston from the pressure of the burning
fuel/air mixture. Maximum pressure occurs when all the fuel/
air has burned. Inside the engine the volume of the
piston/cylinder is increasing as the piston travels down so
the pressure tends to decrease as the piston moves down.
For maximum power the maximum pressure should occur
when the piston is at mid stroke because this is the point
where the piston has the greatest leverage on the
crankshaft. Therefore we want the fuel/air mix to be almost
completely burned when the piston reaches midstroke. We
do want to maintain pressure through the entire stroke so
some burning beyond mid stroke is beneficial. The burning
should begin early enough to achieve this ideal situation.
Unfortunately optimum fuel/air mixtures in normal operating
conditions will burn at a steady rate but the rate the piston
moves down the cylinder is a function of RPM. If we set the
timing for an optimum 2000 RPM we will be burning early at
idle (pressure peaks before midstroke) and late at 2700
RPM (pressure peak after midstroke). Most engine
manufacturers have some form of variable timing control to
achieve almost ideal timing for all engine speeds. The
manufactures who use fixed timing i.e. aircraft engines and
lawn mowers, set the timing to FAVOR cruse and partially
compensate for it by running a rich mixture (burns slower) at
idle but it cannot be set for optimum cruse RPM due to
starting and idle limitations. If you want to fool with it drop
the timing to 15 degrees and see how easy the engine
starts and how smooth it will idle but don't try to fly.
The bottom line. Magnetos have fixed timing therefore the
setting is a compromise between idle and cruse RPM. The
standard 0-320 and 0-360 Lycomings could easily handle 35
to 38 degrees advance at 2500+ RPM but the engine would
be very hard to start and would probably not ideal below
1100 RPM making a RV difficult to land (I can maintain level
flight solo in my 6 at 1500 to 1600 RPM). Changing the
timing from 25 to 26 degrees will not make much difference
but it wont hurt the engine either. If you do experiment be
careful. Advancing the timing too much can overload the
starter (kick back) and idle will be rough. I have my 2 Slick
mags set at 25 for my 0-320-A2B.
The electronic ignitions are the answer but at their present
cost it will be a while before I add one and two would be
even better for reasons I won't go into.
Charles Fink RV-6 N548CF flying (19 hr)
chfink(at)envc.sandia.gov
12313 Woodland N.E.
Albuquerque, NM 87112-2531
H505-292-8197 W505-848-0977
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)cris.com> |
| Subject: | New email address |
For anyone who cares I have a new email address...
Ed Cole RV6A #24430 N648RV (rsv'd)
emcole(at)concentric.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dmcooke <dmcooke(at)rand.nidlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: nav/strobe lights |
Does the price mentioned include the power supply?
Dave Cooke dmcooke(at)rand.nidlink.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
REGARDING Ignition Timing
Very nice treatise on internal combustion theory, Charles Fink. However, I do
take exception when you said ...
----------------------------
"For maximum power the maximum pressure should occur when the piston is at mid
stroke because this is the point where the piston has the greatest leverage on
the crankshaft"
---------------------------
You have the right idea but maybe the semantics got messed up. Maximum
Leverage is when the rod is at a RIGHT ANGLE to the crank pin and that is NOT
necessarily at mid-stroke. Due to ratios of rod length to the stroke as well
as the pin height in the piston, the length of the bore, and the angular
layout of the cylinders - the right angle (maximum leverage point) is seldom
achieved when the piston is at mid stroke in the cylinder.
I'm off the list till Monday - see you then.
-Elon
ormsby1(at)llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)indirect.com> |
Previously written:
>On the somber side, Don Norris was killed in the crash of
>the Mustang II a while back. I don't know the details of the
>accident.
As I recall from an old RVator article on Don's death by Van, he was
flying with a passenger when a seat belt/harness let go (failed
stitching) under some negative G - passenger hit the canopy. The canopy
separated, and then hit the tail and took off the horizontal stab.
Lesson to learn? How do you quality check a new seat belt/harness?
Mike Kukulski (kukulski(at)indirect.com)
RV-4 N96MK, rigging second aileron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Riveting Advice Needed |
Chet,
Not sure of the problem? I dimpled everything, riveted them together, looks
fine. I must have missed any suggestion to c/sink the underlying skin.
Leo
>Hey guys I need a little riveting advice. I was preparing
>my two bottom skins (F676 and F677) to rivet when I realized
>I had accidently dimpled all my baggage compartment and seat
>ribs. I will not be able to dimple F676 and countersink
>F677 and the seat and cockpit ribs. Question is: should I
>go ahead and dimple the two skins where they over lap and
>then rivet them to dimpled ribs or should I flatten out the
>seat and baggage compartment ribs that have been dimpled and
>then rivet a dimpled skin into machine countersunk backings.
>This only pertains to the single line of lap joint rivets
>where the two skins meet (see lower left diagram of drawing
>36.
>
>chet: still having occasional stupid attacks.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: restrictor fittings |
<< What you need to do is take a rivet and drill a small hole in it , then
place the rivet into the AN hose fitting. This acts as the restrictor . Any
futher question please write or call (817)439-3280.......George Orndorff >>
I have a question about this. (Big surprise, huh?) I assume that for a -4
fitting you use a -4 rivet. But the rivet head sticks out around the
perimeter of the flared fitting. Won't that interfere with the sealing of
the tube? Or does the tube/rivet area "mash" itself to fit? (sounds
doubtful)
Sigh,
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcon(at)ix.netcom.com (Robert M. Cornacchia ) |
| Subject: | Re: OSH sign in for listers |
You wrote:
>
>>Hi Folks
>>
>>This will be my first OSH, and I can hardly wait - first OSH - First
>>RV etc..... Looking forward to meeting some of you guys..
>>
>
>> N # |TYPE| COLORS | NAME | E-MAIL
|ARRIVING
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>N517RL| 6A |Dk. Green/Gray |Rob Lee |av8r(at)hic.net | 30th
>>N517RL| 6A |Dk. Green/Gray |Greg Bordellon|greg(at)brokersys.com| 30th
>>N77597|J-3 |Red and white |Michael Kosta |mikel(at)dimensional.com|
25th
>N5754Q |Mooney| Wt/Red/Gld| Bob Cornacchia | bcon(at)ix.netcom.com| 8/1>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: N517RL - Flight testing update |
Rob- delighted to hear you like the GRT Engine Information System monitor.
I'm at the instrument panel construction stage now, and just committed to a
layout which uses the advanced EIS small format instrument. Perhaps you know
he has a fuel flow/totalizer in the works for $350 extra. Real nice fella to
talk to on the phone.... wouldn't say anything bad about the competition when
asked how his gear compared to Rocky Mtn Tech. (I have the RMT microEncoder
going into my panel, too).
This has got to be one of the funnest stages in building an RV. I look at
all those empty holes in the panel and giggle with anticipation of powering
up all that avionics. (Yes, I wiggled my rudder compulsively in the shop for
several hours just like the rest of you did. Gosh- that was two years ago!)
Bill Boyd
RV-6A in western Virginia; going crazy printing hard copy of the engine and
systems threads for future reference, wouldn't miss this info for anything!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Spruell <sspruell(at)ghgcorp.com> |
| Subject: | OSH sign in for listers |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB63AD.4B6F54A0
----------
From: dimensional.com!mikel(at)matronics.com[SMTP:dimensional.com!mikel(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 1996 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: OSH sign in for listers
>Hi Folks
>
>This will be my first OSH, and I can hardly wait - first OSH - First
>RV etc..... Looking forward to meeting some of you guys..
>
> N # |TYPE| COLORS | NAME | E-MAIL |ARRIVING
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>N517RL| 6A |Dk. Green/Gray |Rob Lee |av8r(at)hic.net | 30th
>N517RL| 6A |Dk. Green/Gray |Greg Bordellon|greg(at)brokersys.com| 30th
>N77597|J-3 |Red and white |Michael Kosta |mikel(at)dimensional.com| 25th
>N? |737 |White/Blue/Gold|Steven Spruell|sspruell(at)us.oracle.com|31st
>(I have business in Chicago 29-31, will drive up on the 31st)
>
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BB63AD.4B6F54A0--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ignition timeing |
>The bottom line. Magnetos have fixed timing therefore the
>setting is a compromise between idle and cruse RPM. The
>standard 0-320 and 0-360 Lycomings could easily handle 35
>to 38 degrees advance at 2500+ RPM but the engine would
>be very hard to start and would probably not ideal below
>1100 RPM making a RV difficult to land (I can maintain level
>flight solo in my 6 at 1500 to 1600 RPM). Changing the
>timing from 25 to 26 degrees will not make much difference
>but it wont hurt the engine either. If you do experiment be
>careful. Advancing the timing too much can overload the
>starter (kick back) and idle will be rough. I have my 2 Slick
>mags set at 25 for my 0-320-A2B.
>Charles Fink RV-6 N548CF flying (19 hr)
Charles, Now there's some meat I can sink my teeth into. Thanks, Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Spruell <sspruell(at)ghgcorp.com> |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB63AE.AF01A300
George,
I must agree with Greg. My -6A HS rear spar had a slight bow in it, =
most of which was taken out when I put it in the jig. I could easily =
take the rest out with hand pressure, so I clecoed the skin up to it =
(yes, I'm one of those bottom-feeders with pre-punched skins, but you =
are too if your building an -8) and that too took out the rest of the =
bow. I didn't give it another thought. Everything on my HS was =
straight when I took it out of the jig, and that's all that matters to =
me.=20
Steven Spruell
sspruell(at)ghgcorp.com (home)
sspruell(at)us.oracle.com (work)
RV-6A #24721 - Elevators
----------
From: Gregory Young[SMTP:Net1.Net!gyoung(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 1996 12:12 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: HS REAR SPAR
I had a twist in my HS spar and called Van's about it. They were =
surprised
I even checked but basic answer is if you can straighten it with
reasonable hand pressure then the jig and remaining structure will keep =
it
straight. I could, it did and I don't worry about things like that now.
It's good to get that first reality check over with early. Enjoy!=20
--=20
Greg Young
gyoung(at)net1.net
Citabria N90AV
RV-6 s/n 23070 - just starting wings
----------
> From: MR GEORGE T KILISHEK <prodigy.com!GHLX34A(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: HS REAR SPAR
> Date: Tuesday, 1996 June, 25 19:00 PM
>=20
> I recently finished riveting the rear spar assembly of my RV-8. Now=20
> if find that it has bowed, in the direction of the spar flanges=20
> (toward the rear of the aircraft). Bow is about 1/2" on one end and=20
> 1-1/4" on the other.
>=20
> Is this something I should be worried about, or will all of that=20
> structure and all of those rivets hold it in alignment?
>=20
> Also, any idea how this happens? Differential thermal expansion=20
> between steel reinforcements and AL2 spar channel? (My workshop has=20
> gotten very hot recently with the onset of the Texas summer.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Thanks
>=20
> George Kilishek
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BB63AE.AF01A300--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kightdm(at)carol.net (Danny Kight) |
| Subject: | Re: OSH sign in for listers |
This is OSH #3 for me, but the first time in my own machine. (Sonerai, not
RV) I'm also looking forward to meeting some fellow listers. Not sure when
I'll arrive, VFR from South Carolina to OSH in summer is going to be a gamble.
>
>> N # |TYPE| COLORS | NAME | E-MAIL |ARRIVING
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>N517RL| 6A |Dk. Green/Gray |Rob Lee |av8r(at)hic.net | 30th
>>N517RL| 6A |Dk. Green/Gray |Greg Bordellon|greg(at)brokersys.com| 30th
>>N77597|J-3 |Red and white |Michael Kosta |mikel(at)dimensional.com| 25th
>>N622DK|Sonerai|Blue & white|Danny Kight |kightdm(at)carol.net | 31st?
A note on my N-number: DK are obviously my initials, but the 622? It's our
wedding anniversary! June 22 marked 11 years of marriage to a very
understanding wife. She brings me iced tea in the shop and cheerfully bucks
rivets. What more could a guy ask for?
See you at the BIG ONE!
Danny
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David W.S. King" <KingD(at)direct.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Marking centers |
>An addendum to the post I just made on the marking tool idea -
>
>The ends of the sticks would have to be placed at the same distance down
>the spar to make the center mark accurate where they overlap.
>
>hey it was only a concept right??
>
>
>Harold
>RV-6A //Waiting on wingkit
Hi
Just to add my two cents here;-]
There is a tool used by wood boat builders that is sim to what has been
described. Basically say a 12 piece of wood with three holes in line. In the
outer or end holes u insert a nail, in the middle a marker or another nail or
something to scribe. To use you simply place the tool on the object youwant to
measure then tilt it untill the outer nails are both touching the outside edge
of whatever u want to mark. When these touch the inner will be in the middle
of the object. You can pick another point then draw then line or simply slide
the tool along making the mark with the center.
Its been a while so I dont remember the name but I think it make be called
a "tremal". Actually there are a few other tools that work on the same no
measure principle so maybe a trip to the library to grab a book on building
wooden boats. However I would advise hiding it from wife/girlfriend etc
as you may have difficulty explaining that ur not planning to build a boat
too. ;-]
Btw I didn't notice the other posts so if i just duplicated someone elses
hit the ole
del key.
Cheers
Dave
Dave King
KingD(at)Direct.Ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Chatter; Final Inspection |
>It seems ridiculous to me that inspectors continue to insist on labelling
>such
>as "Push to Open" on the throttle. Has anybody ever seen it the other way?
>
>Why limit it to that? Shouldn't we have "Pull for Up; Push for Down" on the
>control yoke? Wait a minute, that wouldn't work since the theory is "pull
>back
>a little and you go up; pull back some more and you come down...."
>
>Now that I think of it, I'm going to label my throttle "Noise Control - Push
>to
>Increase" and see if I get away with it.
>
>BDStobbe
>skinning fuselage
>
>
Must be that FAA mentality of protecting THEIR jobs........
Fred Stucklen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mustang II?? |
>Saw a Mustang II last weekend - thought it was an RV at first. Any
>wisdom out there as to a comparison between the two??
>
>Dave Musgrave
Higher (much higher) landing speeds..... And it's tapered wing does real
nice snap rols when you try and slow it down too much.........
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: restrictor fittings |
>It was recomended to use restrictor fittings for oil and fuel pressure in
> several e-mails.
>
>Can anybody tell me where to get these fittings ??
>(I didn't find them in the ACS catalog.)
>
>Klaus, RV 4
>Germany
Make them yourself. Use a rivet (shank only) that is a tght fit into the
fitting. Drill a small hole throught the rivet. A #70 or smaller drill is
best.........
When connecting the hoses, make sure that you have purged all the air out
or pressure indications will be VERY slow, especially in cold weather.
Remember, you can't compress a fuid. Air bubbles will compress, which results
in a fluid flow through that very small hole, making stable pressure readings
take a long time......
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | geoffbro(at)ozemail.com.au (Geoff Brown) |
Hi. I'm a 35 yr old soon to be unemployed pilot with just over 10,000hrs
flt time and about 20 months buiding time on my RV6. I've completed the
tail section and I'm just about ready to drill the wing skins.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E Steffens" <resteffe(at)dpcmail.dukepower.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Timing |
>Charles Fink wrote:
>The electronic ignitions are the answer but at their present cost it
>will be a while before I add one and two would be even better for
>reasons I won't go into.
Tell me why two electronic ignitions are better than one. I will use
at least one on the engine I'm overhauling for my -6. I'm trying to
decide on the trade-offs between keeping one mag or going with a dual
electronic system. I'd appreciate your thoughts.
Dick Steffens
resteffe(at)dpcmail.dukepower.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Re: Riveting Advice Needed |
>Hey guys I need a little riveting advice. I was preparing
>my two bottom skins (F676 and F677) to rivet when I realized
>I had accidently dimpled all my baggage compartment and seat
>ribs. I will not be able to dimple F676 and countersink
>F677 and the seat and cockpit ribs. Question is: should I
>go ahead and dimple the two skins where they over lap and
>then rivet them to dimpled ribs or should I flatten out the
>seat and baggage compartment ribs that have been dimpled and
>then rivet a dimpled skin into machine countersunk backings.
>This only pertains to the single line of lap joint rivets
>where the two skins meet (see lower left diagram of drawing
>36.
>
>chet: still having occasional stupid attacks.
>
>
>
Chet,
I dimpled both skins and the ribs, no countersinking, anf the end result is
very satisfactory to me. The only countersinking I did was thru the 676 and
677 where they joint with F604. Dimpled the belly pan.
Ross Mickey
rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Johnson, Steve" <spjohnson(at)msmail.mmmg.com> |
| Subject: | Safety Belt, was Mustang II |
>As I recall from an old RVator article on Don's death by Van, he was
>flying with a passenger when a seat belt/harness let go (failed
>stitching) under some negative G - passenger hit the canopy. The canopy
>separated, and then hit the tail and took off the horizontal stab.
>Lesson to learn? How do you quality check a new seat belt/harness?
>Mike Kukulski (kukulski(at)indirect.com)
>RV-4 N96MK, rigging second aileron
I took a couple of hours in a Pitts S2 a few years ago out at Santa Paula. In
addition to the five point harness, there was a light automotive type belt for
safety backup. Not a bad idea, I think.
Steve Johnson
spjohnson(at)mmm.com
RV-8, #80121, empennage on the way
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ward9(at)llnl.gov (Rich Ward) |
>As I recall from an old RVator article on Don's death by Van, he was
>flying with a passenger when a seat belt/harness let go (failed
>stitching) under some negative G - passenger hit the canopy. The canopy
>separated, and then hit the tail and took off the horizontal stab.
>
>Lesson to learn? How do you quality check a new seat belt/harness?
On the planes I have flown acro in, I have always had dual seat belts: a
five-point harness followed by the lap belt and shoulder harness. On two
occasions I have had a five-point harness let go when going inverted. The
first time it happen, it was my acro instructor; he didn't have it latched
correctly and didn't check it properly when he put it on. The second time
it happened to a passenger of mind; he had mistakenly hit the latch on the
five-point and released it without noticing it. Needless to say, I now
firmly believe in redundant belts.
-- Rich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John E Musser <jemusser(at)tenet.edu> |
| Subject: | RVs in Bartlesville, OK? |
I will be in Bartlesville for the next week or so. Are there any RVs in
the area that I might get a close look at???
John Musser
jemusser(at)tenet.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov> |
| Subject: | restrictor fittings |
If you have access to Tony Bengelis' books, he gives a thorough overview
of various ways to make restrictors. Also, there are standard restricted
AN fittings available, I just don't know a source for new ones.
Mitch Robbins
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It was recomended to use restrictor fittings for oil and fuel pressure in
several e-mails.
Can anybody tell me where to get these fittings ??
(I didn't find them in the ACS catalog.)
Klaus, RV 4
Germany
rothk(at)oims.med.siemens.de
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov> |
| Subject: | Good Deals on Parts |
I just bought a well equipped, wind damaged, late model Cessna 172 to
cannibalize the engine. I have an amazing number of extra parts, many of
which I wish I had when I was building my RV-4, but can't use on my
latest project. I'll list a few of the items, but I have most of the
panel, airframe, interior, etc for sale. I'm just trying to recoup part
of my investment (so I can buy more parts) and will beat any of the
trade-a-plane dealer prices. This is my first announcement and I might
run an add in trade-a-plane soon. If anyone is looking for a good deal
on any parts that one might find on a C-172, let me know off list or call
June 17, 1996 - June 27, 1996
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