RV-List Archive Browser

RV-Archive.digest.vol-bq
July 11, 1996 - July 21, 1996

From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jul 11, 1996
Subject: Re: Compuserve Screwup
>-------------- >> I don't mean to exclude anyone from the list, but getting >> hundreds of "full mailbox" messages a day [from Compuserve] is just >> unacceptable. >> >> I apolgize for using the list as a whole to discuss something >> so patently "un-RV" but I think it's important. > >Actually, I agree. But I was wondering if Matt has another possible solution. >If he's using MajorDomo to serve the list, isn't there a setting that will >only allow list members to post? Seeing as Electronic Postmaster isn't a >member, his messages ought to bounce back, or at least fall on the floor.... > >Who knows, maybe if the Postmaster at Compu$erve got spammed with hundreds of >bounced messages, there's be an incentive to fix their stupid mailer. > >(Another question. Do all these stupid bounces get filed in the archive? >Ugh!) > >Richard Chandler >-------------- Richard and RV-List et al, What an excellent idea! I tryed closing the List so that only RV-List members could post to it and it works great. Unfortunately, Majordomo doesn't return a message back to the sender that something went wrong so the Compuserve Postmaster will never know what a pain they are, but at least the RV-List won't have to deal with it. As far as the archive, yes, all those messages are/were getting appended although I went through and cleaned them all out by hand. Ack! Sorry for the problems. All of you RV-List members on Compuserve should complain to "postmaster(at)compuserve.com" (I talked with a CS support guy on the phone and he said that the postmaster email account is monitored by a number of people and that messages would be read). Tell them that they need to look at the "Bulk" header and not respond to the message and/or respond to the "From " line *not* the "From:" or "Reply-To:". Good mailers should do both. After sending this message, I would get a new service provider (and not AOL either, although I havn't had this problem with them now for a few months since the last time they bombed the List and I sent their Postmaster a nasty message - maybe they listened and fixed it...). Thanks to Richard's suggestion, hopefully this won't be a problem any more. Matt Dralle RV-List Admin Matronics -- ################################ +----------------------+ ##### ######## +--------------------------+ | ######## ############ | Matt G. Dralle | | #### #### #### #### #### | Matronics | | #### #### #### #### #### + | P.O. Box 347 | | #### #### #### #### #### | | Livermore, CA 94551 | | #### ##### #### #### | | 1+ 510-606-1001 Voice | + # # ## ##### ### ## # # # ### ## | | 1+ 510-606-6281 FAX | ## ## # # # # # # # ## # # # ## | | dralle(at)matronics.com | # # # #### # ### # # # ## # # ## | +--------------------------+ # # # # # # # ## # # # ### ## +-----------------------+ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 11, 1996
From: barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart)
Subject: Re: I'm overhauling my engine
>Dave, > >When all is said and done, I'd be curious to know what the final (overall) >cost came to. Even though I already have my engine, it could help others >with the new / overhauled decision. > >-Scott N506RV (Installing cowl) >scottg(at)villagenet.com Oh yes. I not only hope to provide a blow-by-blow (dollar-by-dollar?) accounting of events, but I'll post a summary when it's all over but the crying. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart barnhart(at)a.crl.com rv-6 sn 23744 finishing kit on order fuselage out of the jig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jperri(at)interserv.com
Date: Jul 11, 1996
Subject: KLX-100 GPS
Well I knew there was a good reason to stay with Bendix/King equipment. I wrote about the same review and criticism for my new hand-held comm to the folks at Allied signal. To my surprise I have received three calls from headquarters addressing my concerns. Yes they realize the battery drain on the comm unit is high but have set the transmit cut-off level at .5 watts to allow the receiver and GPS to continue operation. For out of plane operation I suggest you carry an extra set of battery's. The real issue of not having special use airspace, intersections, ndb's and airport runways in the data base will be fixed. A software update will be available this forth quarter and free to those who have purchased the unit prior to the new software being incorporated. I have continued testing and evaluation of this unit and find it to meet or exceed all published specifications. This makes a great enroute GPS and backup comm radio for my needs of switching planes all the time. If anyone would like additional information or opinions please contact me directly .... jperr(at)interserv.com Thanks JMP RV-6 450 N345JE ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNES_ERIC(at)Tandem.COM
Date: - - - , 20-
Subject: RV-List-Undeliverable Mail
Multiplied by 500 listers... I agree! It's relatively easy for me to mass delete these, but there are a lot of people out there who PAY for their e-mail bulk. It's not fair to them. I like your suggestion - only problem is, they wouldn't get the message about being taken off! (I still vote for it.) EB barnes_eric(at)tandem.com ------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT -------- SENT 07-11-96 FROM SMTPGATE (Jim=Preston%303FS_DOT%Whiteman(at)szl.afres.af.mil) Matt (and everyone else), I think most of us have been pretty patient with "chatter" messages, but I'm starting to feel very annoyed with these "Electronic Postmaster From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 11, 1996
Subject: Regulators
I'm wiring my alternator/regulator, and I have a question. The auto-type regulator that I have has 4 terminals: F (field, I assume?) S, A, and I. All of the schematics I have show "S" attaching to the alternator breaker switch, but one of the pages in the 14yr RVator book says the "A" terminal is the correct one. Which is which, and do the other two terminals just stay unconnected? What are they for? What do the letters actually stand for? Thanks a lot. P.S. has anyone received the June issue of the RVator yet? Ed Bundy ebundy2620(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jul 11, 1996
Subject: Re: RV-List-Undeliverable Mail
Rest assured, as stated in the RV-List FAQ, "...if a member's email address causes a problem of any kind, they will be promptly removed from the List..." And I do this quite regularly. But, alas, I have another job that pays the bills, and can only check on the RV-List 2 or 3 times a day... ;-) With this most recent burst of bogus email from Compuserve, it seemed like they sort of queued it up for quite a while before dumping on the List all at once. Anyway, it doesn't really matter anymore as Richard's idea fixed the CS problem. Thanks Richard! Matt Dralle >-------------- >Multiplied by 500 listers... I agree! It's relatively easy for me to >mass delete these, but there are a lot of people out there who PAY for >their e-mail bulk. It's not fair to them. > >I like your suggestion - only problem is, they wouldn't get the message >about being taken off! (I still vote for it.) > >EB >barnes_eric(at)tandem.com > >------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT -------- > >Matt (and everyone else), > > I think most of us have been pretty patient with "chatter" messages, >but I'm starting to feel very annoyed with these "Electronic Postmaster >tried to get CServe to fix this problem, but I'm wondering if maybe it now >calls for stronger measures...specifically, perhaps something as strong as >deleting those listers whose full mailboxes cause the problem. > > Maybe you could program your mailing program to automatically delete >these people, while sending them a message stating the reason, and maybe >also asking them to notify the mail administrator. Perhaps if enough >CompuServe members complain, they'll fix the problem. > > I don't mean to exclude anyone from the list, but getting hundreds of >"full mailbox" messages a day is just unacceptable. > > I apolgize for using the list as a whole to discuss something so >patently "un-RV" but I think it's important. > >Jim >-------------- -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kpsmith(at)sprynet.com
Date: Jul 11, 1996
Subject: Re: RV-8 assistance
I just joined this reading list and get a ton each day...at the risk of causing an avalanche, several recent folks have refered to search engines to find details on specific issues. Sorry, do not comprehend. Search archives from this database? Please help. Also, several have mentioned a building manual on line...I haven't found it yet. Where is it? Personal replies to kpsmith(at)sprynet.com. RV-6 shaping empanage parts prior to a priming session in Plainfield IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNES_ERIC(at)Tandem.COM
Date: - - - , 20-
Subject: Re: RV-8 assistance
On the World Wide Web, the folling sites have the information you're looking for. For the Search Engine, check out: http://dunkin.Princeton.EDU/.rvlist/ Pretty easy to use (just don't search on "Primer"!) JOHN HOVAN's WEB PAGE AT: http://atlantis.austin.apple.com/people.pages/jhovan/home.html Scroll down to "Frank Justice Manual Addition". A few guys I know refer to these instructions more than Van's instructions. You can print them off for free. If you don't have access to the WWW, perhaps someone can lead you to another way to obtain Frank Justices' manual. Hope this helps. EB barnes_eric(at)tandem.com ------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT -------- SENT 07-11-96 FROM SMTPGATE (kpsmith(at)sprynet.com) I just joined this reading list and get a ton each day...at the risk of causing an avalanche, several recent folks have refered to search engines to find details on specific issues. Sorry, do not comprehend. Search archives from this database? Please help. Also, several have mentioned a building manual on line...I haven't found it yet. Where is it? Personal replies to kpsmith(at)sprynet.com. RV-6 shaping empanage parts prior to a priming session in Plainfield IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNES_ERIC(at)Tandem.COM
Date: - - - , 20-
Subject: Re: RV-8 assistance
On the World Wide Web, the folling sites have the information you're looking for. For the Search Engine, check out: http://dunkin.Princeton.EDU/.rvlist/ Pretty easy to use (just don't search on "Primer"!) JOHN HOVAN's WEB PAGE AT: http://atlantis.austin.apple.com/people.pages/jhovan/home.html Scroll down to "Frank Justice Manual Addition". A few guys I know refer to these instructions more than Van's instructions. You can print them off for free. If you don't have access to the WWW, perhaps someone can lead you to another way to obtain Frank Justices' manual. Hope this helps. EB barnes_eric(at)tandem.com ------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT -------- SENT 07-11-96 FROM SMTPGATE @MAILMN (kpsmith(at)sprynet.com) I just joined this reading list and get a ton each day...at the risk of causing an avalanche, several recent folks have refered to search engines to find details on specific issues. Sorry, do not comprehend. Search archives from this database? Please help. Also, several have mentioned a building manual on line...I haven't found it yet. Where is it? Personal replies to kpsmith(at)sprynet.com. RV-6 shaping empanage parts prior to a priming session in Plainfield IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jul 11, 1996
Subject: Search Engines...
I have updated the RV-List Archive Web page adding links and information on the varity of Search engines available for the RV-List Archive. Check it out! The URL is: http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/archive.html Matt Dralle RV-List Admin. Matronics -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 11, 1996
From: kingm(at)whidbey.net (Monte King)
Subject: Paint Quantities
Getting ready to throw some paint at the -6A. How many gallons of primer, color coat and clear coat have others used? My paint supplier is recommending a two part wash primer without any alodine treatment, a color coat and a clear coat. Any comments? Right now, I'm planning on spraying acrylic urethane with the recommended primer. Thanks. Monte King RV-6A, N693KM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvbildr(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 12, 1996
Subject: Re: Looking for Tracy Cooke (sp?) of Florida
Tracy Crook 1936 Nugget Dr. Clearwater, Fl 34615 (813) 447-6956 E-mail: 71175.606(at)Compuserve.com Regards, Mal rvbildr(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OrndorffG(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 12, 1996
Subject: Re: Alternators
Jim, Yes Becki and I are all moved to Texas and open for business. We are working on the RV8 tail kit now and hope to have the video out in a couple of months. If you need RV6 tapes and can get them direct from us or from the others( vans, averys). Just give us a call at (817)439-3280. Alone with seats and interior we have added some other things wiring , firewall sound and heat insulation. Godd to hear from you keep in touch ....George Orndorff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 12, 1996
From: Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List-Undeliverable Mail
(Maj, 305FS/DOT, Whiteman AFB, 975-2968) wrote: > > Matt (and everyone else), > > I think most of us have been pretty patient with "chatter" messages, > but I'm starting to feel very annoyed with these "Electronic Postmaster > tried to get CServe to fix this problem, but I'm wondering if maybe it now > calls for stronger measures...specifically, perhaps something as strong as > deleting those listers whose full mailboxes cause the problem. > > Maybe you could program your mailing program to automatically delete > these people, while sending them a message stating the reason, and maybe > also asking them to notify the mail administrator. Perhaps if enough > CompuServe members complain, they'll fix the problem. > > I don't mean to exclude anyone from the list, but getting hundreds of > "full mailbox" messages a day is just unacceptable. > > I apolgize for using the list as a whole to discuss something so > patently "un-RV" but I think it's important. > > JimJim- Thanks for explaining the "undeliverable message" notation. I've only recently joined the list, and suddenly started seeing these notations. I thought my system was screwed up! Thanks again for the explanation. --Don McNamara ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Alodyne/alumiprep
Date: Jul 12, 1996
From: Marc LeFevre <rv8(at)hpbs2412.boi.hp.com>
Listers: I'm sure that the last thing anyone wants to see on this list is another question about aluminum prep. However, all of the questions about PPG have raised one for me. I went to my local PPG dealer and asked for alumiprep and they sold me DX 503 which appears to be alodyne. Since I've seen references in the archive to a process that involves alumiprep first then alodyne, I'm wondering if I can just use alodyne with no other surface prep??? These guys also recommended DP40/401 over veriprime since it covers large surfaces better and can accomodate color top coats where veriprime can't (this might affect small areas like the inside ends of elevators, huh?). It's a little cheaper too. Maybe it's fair to say that as long as you apply *something* that will resist corrosion, you're better off than the average spam can. Marc LeFevre RV-8 rv8(at)hpbs2412.boi.hp.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 12, 1996
From: Dennis Trusty <dtrusty(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: plastic coatings on skins
>Hi >I'm having trouble getting the plastic protective coating and glue off some I had the same problem with a rear spar. I finally used heat from a hair dryer set on hi. The plastic can then be removed with a paint scraper. You won't scratch it if you go slow. Dennis Trusty ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 12, 1996
From: pilla(at)emmanuel.espinc.com (Michael Pilla)
Subject: Re: Looking for Tracy Cooke (sp?) of Florida
Mal, thanks. Passed along to Claudio. Mike > Tracy Crook > 1936 Nugget Dr. > Clearwater, Fl 34615 > (813) 447-6956 > > E-mail: 71175.606(at)Compuserve.com > > Regards, > Mal rvbildr(at)juno.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 12, 1996
From: eilts(at)sg37.dseg.ti.com (Henry Eilts)
Subject: Compuserve email bounces
Matt fixed the bounced mail problem and says: > What an excellent idea! I tryed closing the List so that only RV-List > members could post to it and it works great. Thanks Matt. Excellent service, as is your rv-list. > Unfortunately, Majordomo doesn't > return a message back to the sender that something went wrong so the > Compuserve Postmaster will never know what a pain they are, but at least > the RV-List won't have to deal with it. A script to catch the offending mail and forward it to the compuserv sysadmin would do the trick, but I don't know enough to do it. It would be fun to have a counter on the script to know how many messages were filling up his mailbox. The compuserve grin counter. Hank Eilts eilts(at)ti.com rv6 tail in house, collecting tools, building jig. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 12, 1996
From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)cris.com>
Subject: Re: Regulators
aol.com!EBundy2620(at)matronics.com wrote: > > I'm wiring my alternator/regulator, and I have a question. The auto-type > regulator that I have has 4 terminals: F (field, I assume?) S, A, and I. > All of the schematics I have show "S" attaching to the alternator breaker > switch, but one of the pages in the 14yr RVator book says the "A" terminal is > the correct one. > > Which is which, and do the other two terminals just stay unconnected? What > are they for? What do the letters actually stand for? > > Thanks a lot. > > P.S. has anyone received the June issue of the RVator yet? > > Ed Bundy > ebundy2620(at)aol.comEd, I would suggest you talk to Bob Nuckolls or refer to his excellent book on anything electrical. I haven't seen him on the list for awhile, but you can reach him at 72770.552(at)compuserve.com By the way, he really frowns on alternators with internal regulators! Ed Cole ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David W.S. King" <KingD(at)direct.ca>
Subject: Re: plastic coatings on skins
>>Hi >>I'm having trouble getting the plastic protective coating and glue off some > >I had the same problem with a rear spar. I finally used heat from a hair >dryer set on hi. The plastic can then be removed with a paint scraper. You >won't scratch it if you go slow. > If you can stand the smell of it after a while use one of the Citrus based cleaners. I used Citra-Sol and it whiped off where mek/laq thin etc didnt seem to touch it. Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 12, 1996
From: JIM SCHMIDT <JIM.SCHMIDT(at)mail.mei.com>
Subject: rv-list: Cowl Installation -Reply
My friends cowl on his 0-360 dropped 3/16 to 1/4". Many that I have seen all dropped this much. I will definetly lower mine by that much. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 12, 1996
From: eilts(at)sg37.dseg.ti.com (Henry Eilts)
Subject: Cowl Droop and Engine Droop
Jim Schmidt says in regard to the issuse of cowls drooping after a while: > > My friends cowl on his 0-360 dropped 3/16 to 1/4". Many that I have > seen all dropped this much. I will definetly lower mine by that much. > I understood the issue from the previous posts to be one of the engine mounts compressing after time, letting the engine sag relative to the cowl, not the cowl sagging with respect to the engine. Have I got this wrong? If it is indeed an engine sag, has anyone experimented with shims (thick washers) in the engine mounts to restore the initial position. It seems to me that maintaining the proper engine thrust line would be a proper thing to do, and that if the engine sags, resulting in nose down thrust, one would always be compensating with nose up elevator, causing more drag than otherwise. Am I nit picking? Hank Eilts eilts(at)ti.com rv6 tail in house, buying tools, building jig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Terryg(at)SceptreCal.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM
Date: Jul 12, 1996
Subject: Alodyne/alumiprep (Longish)
Marc -- you may find the list (particularly the old hands) a little grouchy about priming questions -- understandably so, given that it's the one subject that we seem to obsess about a lot. Here are my own particular thoughts, and bear in mind that I'm just about done with the VS so I'm not one of those old hands (yet!); I primed the HS skeleton with Endura, a two part strontium chromate primer. To prepare the skeleton, I used 2:1 Alumiprep and no alodine. With the skins, I first cleaned with Simple Green, then Alumiprepped the areas where the skeleton contacted the skin, and primed only those areas. When I moved onto the VS, I Alumiprepped, Alodined and then primed the VS skeleton parts. There is no doubt in my mind that the superior product is the full, three step treatment; Alumiprep, Alodine then Endura primer. It's hard, more scratch resistent, looks better, etc. etc. Now, here's the real twist...I decided NOT to prime the VS skin at all!!!! Well, I did clean it with Simple Green, but then just riveted it to that beautiful, primed skeleton. You see, with my very limited facilities, and also, my commitment to not let rinse water just go down the drain, I don't feel that I can rinse the larger pieces well enough, and what with Alcladding, a dry climate etc., the potential for using ACF-50 down the road etc., I' comfortable with my 'hybrid' solution. Also, I rationalized that there will be at least one layer of primer between every two parts. Where I can easily prime, and properly rinse, parts, I will do the full three step process. By definition, this will be parts of limited size. The only exception to this will be the longer spar components, which will likely take to an FBO and have the same, three step treatment. The finished product (ie. the plane) will be professionally painted so I'm not worrying about the external surfaces...I intend to have them primed as I go, again, at the local FBO. The previous paragraph underscores the most important point...there will be some that tell you that if you don't prime everything to the nth degree, your plane will fall out of the sky first flight (I'm exaggerating, of course), and there are others that say you don't need to use a drop. Most importantly, you need to find a process that is manageable and workable for you. That's what I've tried to do. By the way, I took my 'hybrid' VS to my inspector for its pre-close inspection, and he had NO PROBLEM AT ALL with my approach...and he's an extremely experienced and knowledgeable guy. Hope this helps, and if anybody wants to ask more questions about my particular approach, please don't hesitate to contact...probably off list so that this priming 'discussion' doesn't start again! Cheers... Terry in Calgary "Empennage" PS. The one thing I forgot to mention is steel...in my case, I've got a local jobber to powder coat, and I'm delighted with the results...cool, matt black finish, too! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 12, 1996
From: "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM>
Subject: Re: Compuserve Screwup
> Thanks to Richard's suggestion, hopefully this won't be a problem any > more. Hey glad to be of service. Oh, and a report on my eventual RV-6 project. If all goes well, and it looks like it will, I will be closing on July 31st on a Building space with attached house. The only downside is that buying a frige and a washer and drier are really going to eat into the Tool budget. But who knows, maybe I can get myself a tail kit for Christmas. :-) -- "Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!" -- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs "Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Terryg(at)SceptreCal.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM
Date: Jul 12, 1996
Subject: Powder Coating Steel Wing Parts
'Listers -- I had a great time last night unboxing my wing kit...for those of you who are awaiting this, it's a real treat...lots of easily identifiable airplane parts to impress your friends and family with. The wing tips have now taken up temporary residence right beside the TV in the living room, so every 15 minutes I can point to them and say; "Hey look Michelle, wing tips!" Seriously, though, it's a lot of fun. Quick question; I've already mentioned ot the list that I've powder coating all the steel in the tail, it looks great, and it's my intention to do the same with the wing. In the case of the four plates that splice the spar together, I'm assuming that I have to figure out a method of keeping the powder coat out of the holes. Any suggestions as to how to do this? I also have a slightly different version of the same problem with some plate nuts that I want to powder coat...I'm assuming that I somehow have to keep the threads uncoated. Any thoughts or comments on this would be much appreciated... Cheers... Terry in Calgary S/N 24414 "Hey look Michelle, wing tips!" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com>
Subject: Alodyne/alumiprep
Date: Jul 12, 1996
Your making this way harder than it has to be. Etching and alodining is a "Conversion Process". I fail to see what the big deal is about this whole process with everyone. Take your parts outside dilute the alumi prep, spread or spray it on wait afew minutes, rinse it off with water using your garden hose, take a break and drink a coke, (you do not have to wait untill the surface is completely dry before applying the alodine)spread or spray the alodine, wait a few minutes, rinse it off, let the water evaporate and spray what ever primer you want... done deal! Wear gloves while doing this. Again this is a process, for best results use the two together like they were designed to be used. If your going to do one you might as well do the other, it takes five minutes. Go find out what is PPG's equivalate to ALUMI PREP and ALODINE is. Read the labels or books because your PPG dealer DOES NOT KNOW what he's talking about. Better Yet When I get home I'll read my bottles and post a message, I have both. Isn't DP40/401 a PPG product? I have no experience with DP40/401. Veriprime is a Dupont product! Sounds like your dealer is trying to sell you paint. Thats BULLl@#@$ about Veriprime can't accomodate top coats. Hundreds of planes are primed with Veriprime and then top coated including mine. Marc, I am not trying to offend you are anyone else here. It's just YOU ARE BEING MISLED!!!! Get the search engine and search the archive. If you etch alodine and then prime you have done everything that we as home builders can possibly do to make our birds live a long life. Trust me on this one. Greg Bordelon Greg(at)brokersys.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Listers: I'm sure that the last thing anyone wants to see on this list is another question about aluminum prep. However, all of the questions about PPG have raised one for me. I went to my local PPG dealer and asked for alumiprep and they sold me DX 503 which appears to be alodyne. Since I've seen references in the archive to a process that involves alumiprep first then alodyne, I'm wondering if I can just use alodyne with no other surface prep??? These guys also recommended DP40/401 over veriprime since it covers large surfaces better and can accomodate color top coats where veriprime can't (this might affect small areas like the inside ends of elevators, huh?). It's a little cheaper too. Maybe it's fair to say that as long as you apply *something* that will resist corrosion, you're better off than the average spam can. Marc LeFevre RV-8 rv8(at)hpbs2412.boi.hp.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com>
Subject: Paint Quantities
Date: Jul 12, 1996
Getting ready to throw some paint at the -6A. How many gallons of primer, color coat and clear coat have others used? My paint supplier is recommending a two part wash primer without any alodine treatment, a color coat and a clear coat. Any comments? Right now, I'm planning on spraying acrylic urethane with the recommended primer. Thanks. Monte King RV-6A, N693KM +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I have recently painted two aircraft using Dupont products. One was sprayed using Imron and the other with Centari with the gloss additive/hardner. We sprayed one gallon of Variprime immediately followed by two gallons of the color coats. If you are going to and a few stripes??.... usually a quart of each color is all that is needed for these. Both a/c were scrubbed with scotch brite pads and and abrasive called "Bon Ami" while washing. Additionally, both were etched and alodined. I'm a firm beleiver in etching and aloding. The Imron and Centari are easy spray and dry fairly quickly. Imron drys slightly faster. Wait a day before applying the trim strips.....any shorter period and you will have tape marks on the paint after the tape is removed. When my RV is ready for painting (years away) I'm going to use Centari. Centari is acrylic enamel which means it's repairable. It can be touched up, sanded and and buffed out. Sorry no experience with clear coats except for model planes. Hope this helps! Greg Bordelon greg(at)brokersys.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 12, 1996
From: Jan Coulter <Jan(at)claver.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Riveting Spar Strips To Spar Webb
In message <960630150843_146108367(at)emout09.mail.aol.com>, aol.com!Brabst onD(at)matronics.com writes >Van's Aircraft Co: > >I'd like for you to respons to the following problem, please. > >I'm also sending this to RV-LIST to see what other builders have been doing >in cases like this, and to help anyone getting ready to drive spar rivets. > >After reading the instructions and looking at the plans, I concluded that all >of the # 6 rivets in the wing spars were to be installed with the shop head >aft. That worked great (flange strips and webbs fit together real tight) >until I got to station 71.5 where the W606A spar web was not sandwiched >between the heavy spar strips. Of course that ment , the shop heads went >aganist the thinner .040" spar webb. The rivets drove down good and tight. > But, after I finished driving them I noticed that W606A was not held as >tightly against spar strip W606C as before. It appears that driving the >rivets caused a slight bulge around the holes in the .040" material resulting >in a small gap (about .008") midway between the rivets. The spar webb is held >tightly against the flange strip at the rivets but does a gradual separaion >to about .008" at the point midway between the rivets. I think this could >have been prevented by placing the factory heads on the .040 side and driving >the shop heads on the flange strip side. > >Did I do something wrong? >Is this slight separation common? >Will this slight separation cause a problem? >If the separation is not acceptable, what is a solution? > >Thanks, >Doug Brabston I am just about to start on the spar for the RV6 would like to hear about comments to the problem on this page -- Jan Coulter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com>

Subject: Alodyne/alumiprep
Date: Jul 12, 1996
I've found that if you take a scotchbrite pad and lightly scrub the alumaprep into the metal that you won't have any dry spots that way. Also, if you have gallon sized bottles of each (or are handy enough to make a one-ended PVC pipe) you'll find that dipping stiffners or other long parts is the easiest way to get a quick, even coat, and to not waste as much chem as spraying. Also, wear goggles if spraying alumaprep. I have a nicely etched pair of glasses to suggest that this stuff is not friendly to the eyes.. Just my well etched $0.02. -Mike ---------- From: Greg Bordelon[SMTP:brokersys.com!greg(at)matronics.com] Sent: Friday, July 12, 1996 3:17 PM Subject: RV-List: Alodyne/alumiprep Your making this way harder than it has to be. Etching and alodining is a "Conversion Process". I fail to see what the big deal is about this whole process with everyone. Take your parts outside dilute the alumi prep, spread or spray it on wait afew minutes, rinse it off with water using your garden hose, take a break and drink a coke, (you do not have to wait untill the surface is completely dry before applying the alodine)spread or spray the alodine, wait a few minutes, rinse it off, let the water evaporate and spray what ever primer you want... done deal! Wear gloves while doing this. Again this is a process, for best results use the two together like they were designed to be used. If your going to do one you might as well do the other, it takes five minutes. Go find out what is PPG's equivalate to ALUMI PREP and ALODINE is. Read the labels or books because your PPG dealer DOES NOT KNOW what he's talking about. Better Yet When I get home I'll read my bottles and post a message, I have both. Isn't DP40/401 a PPG product? I have no experience with DP40/401. Veriprime is a Dupont product! Sounds like your dealer is trying to sell you paint. Thats BULLl@#@$ about Veriprime can't accomodate top coats. Hundreds of planes are primed with Veriprime and then top coated including mine. Marc, I am not trying to offend you are anyone else here. It's just YOU ARE BEING MISLED!!!! Get the search engine and search the archive. If you etch alodine and then prime you have done everything that we as home builders can possibly do to make our birds live a long life. Trust me on this one. Greg Bordelon Greg(at)brokersys.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Listers: I'm sure that the last thing anyone wants to see on this list is another question about aluminum prep. However, all of the questions about PPG have raised one for me. I went to my local PPG dealer and asked for alumiprep and they sold me DX 503 which appears to be alodyne. Since I've seen references in the archive to a process that involves alumiprep first then alodyne, I'm wondering if I can just use alodyne with no other surface prep??? These guys also recommended DP40/401 over veriprime since it covers large surfaces better and can accomodate color top coats where veriprime can't (this might affect small areas like the inside ends of elevators, huh?). It's a little cheaper too. Maybe it's fair to say that as long as you apply *something* that will resist corrosion, you're better off than the average spam can. Marc LeFevre RV-8 rv8(at)hpbs2412.boi.hp.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 12, 1996
From: "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM>
Subject: Re: Paint Quantities
> My paint supplier is recommending ... I'm curious. A lot of advice on the whole priming/treating issue comes from either a builder's experience (or WAG) or from someone selling paint and treatments. Has anyone talked to the nice folks at Alcoa and asked for THEIR information about what elixers should be spread to protect their product? (I thought the whole point of Alclad was that it was already treated.) -- "Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!" -- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs "Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 12, 1996
From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net>
Subject: Re: Riveting Spar Strips To Spar Webb
Jan Coulter wrote: > I am just about to start on the spar for the RV6 would like to hear > about comments to the problem on this page First of all, I used the hammer and Avery C-frame method. Different results may be had with different methods. After prep and priming, I assembled the spar with clecoes and a hardware store bolt in each hole that would contain a bolt in the finished spar (this avoided the possibility of putting a rivet in these holes. The root end only required about 6 bolt, three top and three bottom. I then drove the #4 rivets with a gun. Manufactured heads to the front, shop heads aft, just to be consistent. I found that the long rivets in the 5th spacer, counting from the root, did not entirely fill the countersink; I was assured that as long as I had sufficient shop head, it would be Ok. Now for the #6 rivets. Again, manufactured head forward, shop head aft. With the cupped set in the C-frame tool, the spar did not contact the tool, even where the tank flange was. Each rivet driven should have the holes adjacent held tightly with either a bolt or a rivet, to ensure that the strips will not spread. Even so, I found that it was wise to do two medium blows to start the rivet, check for spread, adjust by driving the strips together with a nut over the shop head (if necessary), and finish with three strong blows to finish the shop head. Bolting the spar stopped the tendancy for spread, but the whole spar would tend to bounce, causing the rivet to back out of the hole by about 1/16". This brings us to set up. The spar MUST be level both ways to the tool, or you will not be able to set the rivets properly. The height is also important. Next, be sure your tool is on a solid surface, or it will tip or give beneath the rivet. Finally, weight the spar down as much as you can. Even so, the thing will tend to bounce, so check your work! One thing I found, contrary to what I had heard in the 'List, was that the long rivets were easier to set. The greater mass of the spar tended to help hold it in position better, making it easier to get good results. Also, the lighter end tended to allow more bounce, requiring more blows to set the rivet. Final word: I cut my rivets to 1.5d protruding, and found that many could actually have been left alone. I would say that up to 2d is acceptable, assuming that you have no problem with tipping the heads. You may find that 1.5d gives you a slightly thin or undersize head. PatK - RV-6A - Puttering around with wing details. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 12, 1996
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com>
Subject: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
Listers, Does anyone have any experience / advise on how to deal with state sales tax on homebuilts. The state that I live in (New York) cross references FAA registrations with state sales tax. Last December I submitted the paperwork to the FAA and received my registration. Today, I received a letter from the New York State Department of Taxation informing me that I owed state sales tax on the aircraft that I now "own", along with 30% penalties and interest. New York charges sales tax (usage tax) on all purchases made outside of New York, but used within New York. The kit components fall under this category. A builder who has spent up to $50,000 on the project (assuming all new components) could easily face a $4,500 bill from NYS. Come to think of it, anyone who just registered a set of drawings(serial number) from Van's with the FAA would encounter this problem of NYS demanding sales tax. Wouldn't they? Has anyone else been faced with this situation? If so, I'd appreciate knowing how it was handled. If you don't want to clutter up the list with replies, personal e-mail replies would be greatly appreciated. -Scott N506RV (installing cowl, wishing I lived in Montana) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com>
Subject: Alodyne/alumiprep 2
Date: Jul 12, 1996
For those needing the alodine alumiprep info. PPG PRODUCTS - FOR ALUMINUM DX533 Aluminum Cleaner (etch) DX503 Aluminum Conditioner (Tan or gold alodine) DX501 Aluminum Conditioner (Invisible alodine) PPG PRODUCTS - FOR STEEL DX579 Metal Cleaner (etch) DX520 Aluminum Conditioner (Alodine) why they call it Aluminum Conditioner when you use it for steel??........go figure! PARKER+AMCHEM - FOR ALUMINUM Alumiprep 33 (etch) Alodine 1201 (tan or gold alodine) Alodine 1001 (invisible alodine) Sorry I don't have any info on their products for steel. I recommend using the tan alodine so you can see it work......if your not polishing you pride and joy. Greg Bordelon greg(at)brokersys.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mikel(at)dimensional.com
Date: Jul 12, 1996
Subject: Re: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
>Listers, > >Does anyone have any experience / advise on how to deal with state sales tax >on homebuilts. Hey, Scott: Well, there are no sure things etc., etc. We in Colorado have the same thing. When 232SQ was registered, I got a notice from the state stating I owed taxes on the materials I bought and brought into the state to build the airplane. No interest or penalities, though. I think if you protest the late fees, they may waive them. I thought it not worth the hassle as I have heard of no one getting them revolked, and just paid the $250 or what ever it was. I had them send me a copy of the law and, well, there is a law. Bummer. Michael RV-4 232 SQ mikel(at)dimensional.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jul 13, 1996
Subject: Lost Messages and More About Compuserve...
Hello everyone, I'm not so sure closing the List is working so well. By closing the List (only allowing members to post messages) it requires that everyone's posting email address match the one in the List exactly. For example, Elon Ormsby was subscribed to the list as: "ormsby1(at)llnl.gov" but when he posted messages to the List, his address was: "Elon Ormsby" Majordomo doesn't see these as the same address, even though they really go to the same place. Elon isn't an isolated case. There are about 3 or 4 postings that have "bounced" back to me as the admin of the List because of similar issues, although in some cases I can't really figure out why it bounced. So, in light of this, I think that I will have to disabled the Closed List policy. To keep this List operating smoothly however, I am going to disable any Compuserve email addresses until they (Compuserve) can fix their mailer. I *really* hate to do this especially since there are currently about 15 people on the RV-List with addresses from Compuserve. But, in the interest of preserving the sanity of the List and not bombing the whole List with hundereds of messages when a Compuserve user's mail box fills up, it is really the only thing I can do. I have thus far received *zero* response from Compuserve regarding this problem. Perhaps if the 15 Compuserve members on the List all sent email and/or called Compuserve on the phone and complained about this they might try to address it. Or, maybe just tryed a different service provider. If you opt to send a message to the Postmaster at Compuserve ("postmaster(at)compuserve.com") here are some of the issues you should mention: 1) Why do I have an email quota at all? 2) Why does the Compuserve mailer send a "mail box" full message back to the sender? [And these are the *really* big questions...] 3) Why *does* the Compuserve mailer send the "mail box full" messages back to the "From: " address header? It shouldn't in light of 4 and 5 below. 4) Why *doesn't* the Compuserve mailer send the "mail box full" messages to the "Errors-To: " and/or the "From " address header? 5) Why *doesn't* the Compuserve mailer observe the "Precedence: bulk" header and not send informational "mail box full" at all? Even if you are not a member of Compuserve, you may want to send a message to Compuserve regarding these issues. I am going to put a moratorium on all Compuserve email addresses on the RV-List until I have received positive conformation that these issues have been resolved. I truly apologize to all of the Compuserve users on the RV-List, but I am going to have to remove them from the RV-List until this is addressed. This will be the last message Compuserve members will receive from the List until the problem is resolved. I am truly sorry for all the problems this has caused. Matt Dralle RV-List Admin. Matronics -- ################################ +----------------------+ ##### ######## +--------------------------+ | ######## ############ | Matt G. Dralle | | #### #### #### #### #### | Matronics | | #### #### #### #### #### + | P.O. Box 347 | | #### #### #### #### #### | | Livermore, CA 94551 | | #### ##### #### #### | | 1+ 510-606-1001 Voice | + # # ## ##### ### ## # # # ### ## | | 1+ 510-606-6281 FAX | ## ## # # # # # # # ## # # # ## | | dralle(at)matronics.com | # # # #### # ### # # # ## # # ## | +--------------------------+ # # # # # # # ## # # # ### ## +-----------------------+ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jul 13, 1996
Subject: Re: Alodyne/alumiprep
Repost of message by: Mark.Richardson(at)sofkin.ca > Listers: > I'm sure that the last thing anyone wants to see on this list is > another question about aluminum prep. However, all of the > questions about PPG have raised one for me. I went to my local > PPG dealer and asked for alumiprep and they sold me DX 503 which > appears to be alodyne. Since I've seen references in the archive > to a process that involves alumiprep first then alodyne, I'm > wondering if I can just use alodyne with no other surface prep??? Hi ya, You want DX-533 Aluminum Cleaner (essentially Alumiprep). Mark ************************************************************************ * Mark Richardson Software Kinetics Ltd * * Project Manager 65 Iber Rd. * * Defence Systems Stittsville, Ont * * VOX 613-831-0888 K2S 1E7 * * FAX 613-831-1836 richards(at)sofkin.ca * ************************************************************************ * RV-6 20819 '85 Virago 750 * * EAA# - 367635 DoD# - 1506 * ************************************************************************ -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jul 13, 1996
Subject: Re: Cowl Droop and Engine Droop
This is a repost of a messages from: Pat McClung Henry Eilts wrote: > > Jim Schmidt says in regard to the issuse of cowls drooping after a while: > > > > > My friends cowl on his 0-360 dropped 3/16 to 1/4". Many that I have > > seen all dropped this much. I will definetly lower mine by that much. > > > > I understood the issue from the previous posts to be one of the > engine mounts compressing after time, letting the engine sag relative > to the cowl, not the cowl sagging with respect to the engine. Have > I got this wrong? > > If it is indeed an engine sag, has anyone experimented with shims > (thick washers) in the engine mounts to restore the initial position. > > It seems to me that maintaining the proper engine thrust line would be > a proper thing to do, and that if the engine sags, resulting in nose > down thrust, one would always be compensating with nose up elevator, > causing more drag than otherwise. Am I nit picking? > > Hank Eilts > eilts(at)ti.com > rv6 tail in house, buying tools, building jig You are right--Shims, Washers, or, new and good quality Lord Mounts are the answer--sometimes the original mounts are not installed correctly and results in premature "sagging". Normal settling of properly installed mounts usually doesn't amount to significant amount, in my experience (5 restorations or homebuilt installations). -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jul 13, 1996
Subject: FWD: COWL/ENGINE DROP
This is a repost of a message from: Elon Ormsby Hank Eilts writes...... maintaining the proper engine thrust line would be a proper thing to do, and that if the engine sags, resulting in nose down thrust, one would always be compensating with nose up elevator, causing more drag than otherwise. ____________________ I was thinking the same thing and was wondering why the list was strangely silent on this issue. I don't have the dimensions of the motor mount but a little trig would tell us of it was a one or two degree sag. I can't see how that would NOT be significant since all of the big 520 & 540 inch motors are offset a degree or so to lesson the full-power P factor and requisite right rudder. One or two degree sag doesn't sound good to me. Also, if new mounts compress as they age; why not pre-load them in a cheap fixture during the couple of years it takes to get in the air? Or is vibration the factor that accelerates the sag? Why not use harder rubber? If hard rubber will not dampen as well; then how does an aged, sagging, compressed, rubber biscuit do any dampening? Primer anyone! -Elon -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jul 13, 1996
Subject: Re: FWD: Re: Powder Coating Steel Wing P
This is a repost of a message by Elon Ormsby In the past I have brought my parts in with tapered corks (both rubber and cork) stuck in the holes. The hole only has to be protected during the "fogging: or spraying of the powder. They are removed after the spraying and BEFORE the bake-out. During the bake-out the powder will not (or should not) run. I bought an assorted batch of stoppers from a lab supply house years ago for about $5.00. You might try a local auto supply for an assortment of vinyl caps and plugs used for plugging various vacuum lines and hydraulics. I do not like to screw bolts into the holes because underneath the hex-head the part is left uncoated. A tapered bottle stopper swages in nicely and the coating goes right to the edge of the hole. Check with your coater to find out what temp his oven runs at (I think my stuff was about 425 f). I don't think you want the stoppers going through the oven. However, If it is lower temperature it may not make a difference if he screws-up and leaves a couple of them in the holes. -Elon -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: request (Email-LIST Request Service)
Date: Jul 13, 1996
Subject: Kit Aircraft Builder Magazine
[I think you meant to send the to "rv-list(at)matronics.com" - Matt] -------------- > I just received an offer to subscripe to "Kit Aircraft Builder" magazine. It > is a bi-monthly publication for $19.95 a year. Has anyone subscribed to it? > Is it worthwhile? > Thanks, > DougMel(at)aol.com -------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Wing Spar Rivets
Date: Jul 13, 1996
I'm just about ready to rivet my first wing spar. Looking at the plans, it's not totally apparent which holes have bolts vs. #6 rivets. From appearances, it looks like 2 or 3 of the angle stiffeners are riveted in place instead of bolted. Comments? -Joe -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037 Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg 6121 St. Croix Ave. N. Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com
Date: Jul 13, 1996
Subject: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
RV>under this category. A builder who has spent up to $50,000 on the project RV>(assuming all new components) could easily face a $4,500 bill from NYS. Come RV>to think of it, anyone who just registered a set of drawings(serial number) RV>from Van's with the FAA would encounter this problem of NYS demanding sales RV>tax. Wouldn't they? RV>Has anyone else been faced with this situation? If so, I'd appreciate RV>knowing how it was handled. If you don't want to clutter up the list with RV>replies, personal e-mail replies would be greatly appreciated. RV>-Scott N506RV (installing cowl, wishing I lived in Montana) I hope people respond on-list for this one. I remember when I first started considering a homebuilt 4-5 years ago I heard some talk of potential tax liability. I don't remember how it was all resolved. I know that for some areas I deal with at my office, New York seems to be very revenue oriented and heavily regulated. Good luck. Rod Woodard RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com RV-8, #80033 P.S. In order for some of us to respond privately, you have to include your e-mail address in your posting manually. My e-mail software shows rv-list(at)matronics.com as the only sender. I have no way of knowing your personal e-mail address unless you include it manually. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bcg007(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 13, 1996
Subject: RV6 Empennage
I'm stumped-- Building RV6, working on the rudder. Have skeleton built; skin has stiffners on. The whole assembley is in the v-jig. My question concerns the R410 rudder horn brace. It fits, but how do you buck the rivets to attach it? My R404 rib is already attached to the spar (out of order?) and I know I can attach the brace to it after removing the skins, but how to attach the brace to the R605 control horn? (the tabs of R410 and the rib preclude reaching in). I think I did something out of order. If anyone can decipher my problem, have you got any suggestions? Also, any way to avoid pop rivets near this brace? Jon Scholl Plano, TX RV6 24718 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: K8DO(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 13, 1996
Subject: Re: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
Somewhere on this list are person(s) who know the state tax laws... In which state can a newly built aircraft be registered to avoid the extreme taxation of states like NY, etc. ? Denny ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Morristec(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 13, 1996
Subject: Re: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
Scott, Technicaly you are right. You owe tax for the full amount spent for materials building the aircraft. Any parts that you bought in state you would have already paid tax on and you would not have to pay on these items again (you have the receipts right?). Out of state purchases (such as the kit from Vans) would not have been taxed at the time of purchase. You will owe taxes on any such items. There is a way around this though. The state tax people don't generally have much of an idea what a homebuilt is, let alone what it cost or how many parts/ materials it takes to build one. So let you imagination go from there. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 13, 1996
From: barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart)
Subject: Re: Paint Quantities
>I'm curious. A lot of advice on the whole priming/treating issue comes from >either a builder's experience (or WAG) or from someone selling paint and >treatments. I would not so quickly disparge the technical advice given by the paint MANUFACTURER. One of the reasons why I stick with DuPont products (instead of Acme or one of the lesser-known brands) is that the products may be more expensive, but DuPont provides a great deal of wonderful educational material at no charge. I have a multi-page booklet here from DuPont on the subject of applying Imron to aircraft, and covers metal, fiberglass, and fabric surfaces. It was FREE. Nobody knows better than DuPont or PPG how to get the best results from the use of thie paint products. Granted, most of us are ignoring DuPont's advice on the use of veriprime (but I live out here in Arizona, so my views on corrosion protection are kinda warped.). I for one, have primed the entire inside of my RV-6 with it. There are probably better single-coat products than veriprime for this application, but I also think that veripriming the whole inside is overkill. IF I had it to do over again, I'd forget the veriprime on the inside, let the alclad do its job, and just prime the fayed surfaces with something like Marhyde. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart barnhart(at)a.crl.com rv-6 sn 23744 finishing kit on order fuselage out of the jig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: gksugar(at)gate.net (gregory warr)
Subject: Re: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
Date: Jul 13, 1996
In article Scott Gesele writes: >Received: from matronics.com by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP (8.6.12/SMI-4.1) >Received: by matronics.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) >Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com >Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 23:39:51 -0400 >Message-Id: <2.2.16.19960712233802.28a70b86(at)villagenet.com> >X-Sender: scottg(at)villagenet.com >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >From: Scott Gesele <villagenet.com!scottg(at)matronics.com> >Subject: RV-List: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts >Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >X-UIDL: 8a81a40e321162db1e9f5d7f173c848b >Listers, >Does anyone have any experience / advise on how to deal with state sales tax >on homebuilts. The state that I live in (New York) cross references FAA >registrations with state sales tax. Last December I submitted the paperwork >to the FAA and received my registration. Today, I received a letter from >the New York State Department of Taxation informing me that I owed state >sales tax on the aircraft that I now "own", along with 30% penalties and >interest. New York charges sales tax (usage tax) on all purchases made >outside of New York, but used within New York. The kit components fall >under this category. A builder who has spent up to $50,000 on the project >(assuming all new components) could easily face a $4,500 bill from NYS. Come >to think of it, anyone who just registered a set of drawings(serial number) >from Van's with the FAA would encounter this problem of NYS demanding sales >tax. Wouldn't they? >Has anyone else been faced with this situation? If so, I'd appreciate >knowing how it was handled. If you don't want to clutter up the list with >replies, personal e-mail replies would be greatly appreciated. >-Scott N506RV (installing cowl, wishing I lived in Montana) Scott, Same goes for state of Florida. After registration i was informed of tax due. What i did was send the state copys of invoices, mainly the kit and misc. expenses and the tax was based on that sum.(basic airplane) It kept them happy, no further notices. If your money is like mine ,the less that goes to the state collection agency, the better.!!!!! Greg Warr N 524 kw ________________________________________________________________________________
From: av8r(at)hic.net
Date: Jul 13, 1996
Subject: oil strainer to oil filter conversions
Hello all ! I,m flying my 6A with an old 0-320 out of a Mooney M-20 that came equipped with the old type oil strainer. (don't laugh it was state of the art back in 1956!!! - I understand that changing over to using an oil filter will do 2 things for me; 1) Double the interval for required oil changes from 25 to 50 hrs, and... 2) Improve the engine cooling somewhat. Since I have the firewall recess already to accomodate the Prop governor, I am seriously considering getting a conversion kit to allow the use of a filter. Thge STC'd kits I've seen seem a mite high $$ and therefore I was wondering if anyone out there has any ideas, good deals, good deals, good deals, or suggestions on this subject. For info..... I was flying along at 2000 ft today, running off the last couple of hours off of my 25 hr test time, and the OAT was 98 degrees !!!! oil temp was 220. I next climbed to 9500 where the OAT was still around 80 degrees!! and the temp was right at 195 in cruise - question, does this still sound too high ?? I've replaced the oil cooler with a 13 row racing cooler already and this helped some - but, do I now suspect the thermostatic valve of not working right ?? or do the above sound OK for the high summertime ambient temps we are experiencing here in Houston ?? - guess I'll find out more on my way up to OSh - BIG :) Thanks in advance, Rob Lee N517RL - RV6A av8r(at)hic.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dougweil(at)pressenter.com (Doug Weiler)
Subject: Re: RV6 Empennage
Date: Jul 13, 1996
> > I'm stumped-- > > Building RV6, working on the rudder. Have skeleton built; skin has stiffners > on. The whole assembley is in the v-jig. My question concerns the R410 > rudder horn brace. > > It fits, but how do you buck the rivets to attach it? My R404 rib is already > attached to the spar (out of order?) and I know I can attach the brace to it > after removing the skins, but how to attach the brace to the R605 control > horn? (the tabs of R410 and the rib preclude reaching in). > > I think I did something out of order. If anyone can decipher my problem, > have you got any suggestions? > > Also, any way to avoid pop rivets near this brace? > Jon: I too used ended up debating on how to buck these rivets. I finally decided, since they are not very visible to use blind rivets. However, be sure to use a true Cherry Max rivet (approved for structural applications). They are pricet at around a buck each, but you only use a small number. Doug Weiler, MN Wing, RV-4 in progress ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 13, 1996
From: Greg Puckett <71155.2336(at)CompuServe.COM>
Eric Barnes , Jim Cimino , Ron Dunn , Andy Hanna , Joel Harting , Brian Huffaker , Steve Johnson , George Kilishek , Marc LeFevre , Don McNamara , Tony Moradian , Rod Woodard
Subject: Rudder TE Bend
Hello everyone, I am having a problem getting the final bend made in the rudder trailing edge. The manual says the bent should be such that the skin touches the spar without any help. The gap in my skin where the spar would set is a little less than twice the thickness of the rudder spar. I made the bend with a 1/8th in dowel and a wooden brake and cannot get the bend any tighter, apparently the stiffner training edges are touching while bending and will not allow enough overbent to achieve the correct final bend angle. My stiffner trailing edges are 1/8" at the end of the bevel as per the plans and the lengths are correct. Has anyone else had this problem? Does anyone have any ideas on how to get the bend tighter? Is my bend good enough? thanks, Greg Puckett RV-8 80081 71155.2336(at)compuserve.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Jul 13, 1996
Subject: Re: oil strainer to oil filter conversions
.... >I was flying along at 2000 ft today, running off the last couple of >hours off of my 25 hr test time, and the OAT was 98 degrees !!!! oil >temp was 220. I next climbed to 9500 where the OAT was still around 80 >degrees!! and the temp was right at 195 in cruise - question, does >this still sound too high ?? I've replaced the oil cooler with a 13 >row racing cooler already and this helped some - but, do I now suspect >the thermostatic valve of not working right ?? or do the above sound >OK for the high summertime ambient temps we are experiencing here in >Houston ?? - guess I'll find out more on my way up to OSh - BIG :) > >Thanks in advance, > >Rob Lee N517RL - RV6A >av8r(at)hic.net > Rob: RV's including my 0-360 usually run cool. I have a controllable cooler duct and even when it's 90 out I get 185 oil temp with a resticted cooler intake. I have a SW aircraft cooler. In other words do some checking. Are you sure your guage is correct? If so, you may have a problem. Sustained 220 oil temp is a problem you need to resolve. Even the 195 sounds high for 80 OAT. Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jul 13, 1996
Subject: Re: Compuserve
>-------------- >Matt, Just got your Email message thru AOL. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate >the work you do on the RV-List. I read it three to five times a day. I find >it very usefull in the costruction of my RV-4 #2888 with the tail and wing >kit complete I am working on the fuselage kit at this time. My comment is why >not just drop the ones that seem to always have a full mail box? I have not >kept track of the offenders numbers but it seems one or two . I could be >wrong. My RV-4 knows it at times! Best Regards, Bruce Bell rv-4(at)aol.com >-------------- Bruce, Well that seems like it would work okay, but in practice is doesn't. I have been doing just that - deleting the rogue Compuserve users - but the problem is if I don't keep up on it - like check it about every few hours - things can explode. Its really a mail loop of sorts - CS send the List a message saying that a user's email box is full. Since that message went to the whole list including the person who's mail box is full, CS sends yet another message ... etc etc etc. This loop occurs for *every* message that gets posted to the List! That can cause quite a problem when multipled by the 20-30 messages a day that get sent to the RV-List. Compuserve just needs to fix the way their mailer deals with incoming mail. It's broken. I hope that someone there (at Compuserve) cares enough to take a look at it. Matt Dralle RV-List Admin. Matronics -- ################################ +----------------------+ ##### ######## +--------------------------+ | ######## ############ | Matt G. Dralle | | #### #### #### #### #### | Matronics | | #### #### #### #### #### + | P.O. Box 347 | | #### #### #### #### #### | | Livermore, CA 94551 | | #### ##### #### #### | | 1+ 510-606-1001 Voice | + # # ## ##### ### ## # # # ### ## | | 1+ 510-606-6281 FAX | ## ## # # # # # # # ## # # # ## | | dralle(at)matronics.com | # # # #### # ### # # # ## # # ## | +--------------------------+ # # # # # # # ## # # # ### ## +-----------------------+ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 13, 1996
From: HBenjamin(at)gnn.com (Harold Benjamin)
Subject: Re: Rudder TE Bend
rick_bot(at)enternet.com.au, jcimino(at)mail.microserve.net, rdunn(at)ionet.net, Ahanna2(at)aol.com, AB320FLYER(at)aol.com, huffaker(at)utw.com, spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com, GHLX34A(at)prodigy.com, rv8(at)hpbs2412.boi.hp.com, mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net, tmora(at)ix.netcom.com, Rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com >Date: 13 Jul 96 19:33:50 EDT >From: Greg Puckett <CompuServe.COM!71155.2336(at)matronics.com> >Subject: RV-List: Rudder TE Bend > >Hello everyone, > >I am having a problem getting the final bend made in the rudder trailing > edge. >The manual says the bent should be such that the skin touches the spar > without >any help. The gap in my skin where the spar would set is a little less than >twice the thickness of the rudder spar. I made the bend with a 1/8th in > dowel >and a wooden brake and cannot get the bend any tighter, apparently the > stiffner >training edges are touching while bending and will not allow enough > overbent to >achieve the correct final bend angle. My stiffner trailing edges are 1/8" > at the >end of the bevel as per the plans and the lengths are correct. > >Has anyone else had this problem? >Does anyone have any ideas on how to get the bend tighter? >Is my bend good enough? > > thanks, > > Greg Puckett RV-8 80081 71155.2336(at)compuserve.com Greg, I had the same problem. That was about as far as I could bend it with the dowel in place. So I removed the dowel and finished the bend carefully. Turned out great! Skin layed down on the spar, and radius was just right. Good Luck, Hal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 13, 1996
From: "J.Bennick" <1gatto(at)cdmnet.com>
Subject: Re: Kit Aircraft Builder Magazine
> >> I just received an offer to subscripe to "Kit Aircraft Builder" magazine. It >> is a bi-monthly publication for $19.95 a year. Has anyone subscribed to it? >> Is it worthwhile? >> Thanks, >> DougMel(at)aol.com > I subscribed to "Kit Aircraft Biulder" magazine over a year ago. So far, I have received only 2 issues. I tried calling the publisher and they gave me the run-around. The issue I got would be like "spring 95" or something. The ad says that you get xx (24 I think) issues for $19.95 but it doesn't say at what frequency they will come. At the rate I'm getting them, it will be a 10 year subscription!! I think they are probably a start-up operation and I would not recommend them to anyone. ---------------------------------------------- Chris Brooks, RV-6 Finishing the 2nd wing, Fuselage in box (recently arrived) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jul 13, 1996
Subject: Re: Kit Aircraft Builder Magazine
>-------------- >>> I just received an offer to subscripe to "Kit Aircraft Builder" magazine. It >>> is a bi-monthly publication for $19.95 a year. Has anyone subscribed to it? >>> Is it worthwhile? >>> Thanks, >>> DougMel(at)aol.com >> >I subscribed to "Kit Aircraft Biulder" magazine over a year ago. So far, I >have received only 2 issues. I tried calling the publisher and they gave me >the run-around. The issue I got would be like "spring 95" or something. The >ad says that you get xx (24 I think) issues for $19.95 but it doesn't say at >what frequency they will come. At the rate I'm getting them, it will be a 10 >year subscription!! I think they are probably a start-up operation and I >would not recommend them to anyone. >---------------------------------------------- >Chris Brooks, RV-6 >-------------- The publisher's Internet email address is "kitairbldr(at)earthlink.net". The guys name is "Charles Coyne". I've CC'd him on this message; perhaps he'd like to comment on his publication to the whole list (rv-list(at)matronics.com)? Matt Dralle RV-List Admin. Matronics -- ################################ +----------------------+ ##### ######## +--------------------------+ | ######## ############ | Matt G. Dralle | | #### #### #### #### #### | Matronics | | #### #### #### #### #### + | P.O. Box 347 | | #### #### #### #### #### | | Livermore, CA 94551 | | #### ##### #### #### | | 1+ 510-606-1001 Voice | + # # ## ##### ### ## # # # ### ## | | 1+ 510-606-6281 FAX | ## ## # # # # # # # ## # # # ## | | dralle(at)matronics.com | # # # #### # ### # # # ## # # ## | +--------------------------+ # # # # # # # ## # # # ### ## +-----------------------+ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 14, 1996
From: patk(at)mail.ic.net (Patrick Kelley)
Subject: Re: Wing Spar Rivets
Joe wrote: >I'm just about ready to rivet my first wing spar. Looking at the plans, >it's not totally apparent which holes have bolts vs. #6 rivets. From >appearances, it looks like 2 or 3 of the angle stiffeners are riveted in >place instead of bolted. All of the standalone stiffeners are riveted. All of the ribs with stiffeners are bolted. Additionally, there are bolts at the root end where the bulkhead mates, and one bolt in the top strips for the tiedown bracket. PatK - RV-6A - Left leading edge dimpled and ready for priming ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: Compuserve
Date: Jul 14, 1996
I think the only way you will get Compuserves attention in if the CS = subscribers start cancelling their subscriptions and hooking up to other = net providers. If you look at http://thelist.com and search by = area code you will probably find a provider that is less expensive than = Compuserve in your area. I realize it's a sledge hammer approach to = Compuserve but as they start getting cancellations for the same reason, = they will probably give the problem a real hard look. I hope the CS = subscribers to the list can get this message. Al prober@iwaynet ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Russell Williams <russellw(at)microsoft.com>
Subject: Alodyne/alumiprep (Longish)
Date: Jul 14, 1996
>---------- >From: > SceptreCal.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM!Terryg(at)matronics.com[SMTP:SceptreCal.CCMAIL >.CompuServe.COM!Terryg(at)matronics.com] >Now, here's the real twist...I decided NOT to prime the VS skin at all!!!! >Well, I did clean it with Simple Green, but then just riveted it to that >beautiful, primed skeleton. You see, with my very limited facilities, and >also, >my commitment to not let rinse water just go down the drain, I don't feel >that I >can rinse the larger pieces well enough, and what with Alcladding, a dry >climate >etc., the potential for using ACF-50 down the road etc., I' comfortable with >my >'hybrid' solution. Also, I rationalized that there will be at least one >layer >of primer between every two parts. Fan the primer flames! While I'm not an RV builder (I'm the rivet bucker on Michael Angiulo's RV-8), I do work on my 1948 Stinson 108 and can offer, if you will, a historical perspective. While the one layer of primer between the skin and the structure will help, it will do nothing to stop the corrosion that will form on the inside surface of the skin, completely separate from any metal-to-metal contact points. I had the unfortunate experience of completely rebuilding my rudder due to corrosion. The rudder was less than 20 years old (it was a replacement unit), had no corrosion protection on the inside (other than Alclad skins), and it was completely toasted from about 10 years of exposure to Florida weather. The entire inside surface of the skins was powder. Whether you alodine and epoxy prime or use ACF-50 (I'd do both) my advice is that you should use maximum corrosion protection from the start if you want your plane to last. Russell Williams Stinson N889C and paranoid about corrosion ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 14, 1996
Subject: Re: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
<< Has anyone else been faced with this situation? If so, I'd appreciate knowing how it was handled. If you don't want to clutter up the list with replies, personal e-mail replies would be greatly appreciated. >> PLEASE, post this info to the list. I have wondered about it myself. I'm sure it will be of interest to a lot of folks. Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Cecil Hatfield / Fourstar Printing <cecil(at)alto1.altonet.com>
Date: Jul 14, 1996
Subject: Re: Banquet at Oshkosh
To confirm for those that want spots at the Banquet table in Oshkosh, I will post this list on the RV list every so often. The following are comfirmed for the banquet Sunday 7PM 8-4-96: Tim Wooten 1 Curtis Hinkley 1 Mike Cheney 1 Joe Lewis and friend 2 Eric & Carolyn Barnes 2 Bill Costello 1 Sis 'Veronica' Costello 1 Dave Musgrave 1 John Musgrave 1 Jim Cone & wife 2 Larry Groom & 3 friends 4 Danny Kight 1 Joel Harding 1 Chris Harding 1 Greg Bordelon 1 Rob Lee 1 Steven Spruell 1 John Zidek and friend 2 If I have missed anyone, let me know. Cecil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jul 14, 1996
Subject: Re: Lost Messages and More About Compuserve...
>-------------- >Thanks for sacrifycing 15 people for 3 or 4 with strange Email addresses... >-------------- I didn't mean to make anybody mad over this, but something has to be done. Anybody could have something come up and not be able to get to their email for some time. As CS's mailer is configured now, every member of Compuserve has the potential of bombing the List. That's just not fair to the other members of the List or to me since I feel like I have to watch the List operation constantly. You would not believe how many nasty messages I get when something goes wrong with the List and people end up with a bunch of bogus mail. I am hoping that putting a moratorium on CS users will cause them to go to CS and say "Hey, what's up? Fix this." CS certaintly hasn't listened to me, but maybe losing 15 or 20 users will shake them up. Matt Dralle RV-List Admin Matronics -- ################################ +----------------------+ ##### ######## +--------------------------+ | ######## ############ | Matt G. Dralle | | #### #### #### #### #### | Matronics | | #### #### #### #### #### + | P.O. Box 347 | | #### #### #### #### #### | | Livermore, CA 94551 | | #### ##### #### #### | | 1+ 510-606-1001 Voice | + # # ## ##### ### ## # # # ### ## | | 1+ 510-606-6281 FAX | ## ## # # # # # # # ## # # # ## | | dralle(at)matronics.com | # # # #### # ### # # # ## # # ## | +--------------------------+ # # # # # # # ## # # # ### ## +-----------------------+ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jul 14, 1996
Subject: Re: Compuserve
>-------------- >I think the only way you will get Compuserves attention in if the CS = >subscribers start cancelling their subscriptions and hooking up to other = >net providers. If you look at http://thelist.com and search by = >area code you will probably find a provider that is less expensive than = >Compuserve in your area. I realize it's a sledge hammer approach to = >Compuserve but as they start getting cancellations for the same reason, = >they will probably give the problem a real hard look. I hope the CS = >subscribers to the list can get this message. Al prober@iwaynet >-------------- Well put, Allan. I have forwarded this messages to the CS members on the List as well. Matt Dralle RV-List Admin Matronics -- ################################ +----------------------+ ##### ######## +--------------------------+ | ######## ############ | Matt G. Dralle | | #### #### #### #### #### | Matronics | | #### #### #### #### #### + | P.O. Box 347 | | #### #### #### #### #### | | Livermore, CA 94551 | | #### ##### #### #### | | 1+ 510-606-1001 Voice | + # # ## ##### ### ## # # # ### ## | | 1+ 510-606-6281 FAX | ## ## # # # # # # # ## # # # ## | | dralle(at)matronics.com | # # # #### # ### # # # ## # # ## | +--------------------------+ # # # # # # # ## # # # ### ## +-----------------------+ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 14, 1996
From: rdunn(at)ionet.net (Ron Dunn)
Subject: Up my VS
Before I close my VS, is there a special type of strobe wire that I can run to the tip? I would much rather clamp down a piece of wire than install a 'runner' through which I could pull the correct cable. In other words, is there a standard type of cable that strobe systems use? Such as RG-59 like cable TV uses. Is it even co-axle wire or just shielded? Does the 'Electric Connection' guy write about such things in his book? Thanks in advance Ron Ron Dunn #80078 RV-8 > HS in jig Broken Arrow, OK ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jul 14, 1996
Subject: Hope At Compuserve!
RV-Listers: I just received this from Randall Henderson. It appears there is hope for Compuserve users after all! Matt >-------------- >> I have thus far received *zero* response from Compuserve regarding this >> problem. Perhaps if the 15 Compuserve members on the List all sent >> email and/or called Compuserve on the phone and complained about this >> they might try to address it. Or, maybe just tryed a different service >> provider. > >Matt: > >I mailed the following to the rv-list on friday but I don't think it got >there....? Anyhow, I DID get a response from CompuStench. Here it is. > >Randall > > >------------- Begin Included Message ------------- > >I forwarded all of those messages I was getting from >the Compuserve mailer back to POSTMASTER(at)Compuserve.COM. >I think that finally got their attention as I got >the following response today. > >Randall > > >Date: 12 Jul 96 15:17:03 EDT >To: Randall Henderson >Subject: Improper Message Handling > > > I'm sorry about all the problems this has caused. We are >aware of the bug we have and are fixing it as soon as possible. >Our mail software does recognize the Precedence: Bulk header, but >due to the bug for some certain cases the mailer has been ignoring >the header. > >------------- End Included Message ------------- >-------------- -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 14, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
> ><< Has anyone else been faced with this situation? If so, I'd appreciate > knowing how it was handled. If you don't want to clutter up the list with > replies, personal e-mail replies would be greatly appreciated. > >> > >PLEASE, post this info to the list. I have wondered about it myself. I'm >sure it will be of interest to a lot of folks. > >Ed Bundy > > I'll put my $.02 worth in. In Washington State we have an 8.2% sales tax. I'm not too much of an advocate for giving the government any more than I have to. I flew my RV for about 4 to 5 years before I finally recieved a letter from the Washington State Patrol agent assigned to collecting unpaid sales tax on aircraft. The letter was a form letter and told me that I would have to pay the tax or be faced with possible criminal charges for tax evasion. Made it sound really bad. I never responded to him. I did, however, call up the tax agent in a nearby town to discuss what I may owe. He was very cooperative. He asked how much I had spent building the RV. I, being the honest citizen I am, was somewhat misleading in responding to his question. I told him that when I started building the kit that the RV kit price was around $7500 but by the time I was finished it would cost $8800. We agreed that a reasonable average price was $8000. So, my tax was .082 x 8000 = $656.00. He never asked to see the receipts either for in or out of state purchases. I got the feeling that as long as I paid some reasonably substantial sum that they would be happy. I think it helped that he was actively rebuilding a vintage car in his garage and understood the homebuilders viewpoint. He did ask about parts of the aircraft that didn't come in the kit. I mentioned that I had been collecting aircraft parts and items over the years. Couldn't remember where they all came from or when I picked them up. If you contact the tax agent with a friendly and cooperative attitude you should do ok; don't, however, tell him what a wonderful airplane the RV is and how much it's worth. Save that for after you have that tax stamp. Remember, dealing with the Tax Man is like negotiating the price on a new car. If you are the type of person that walks in and pays the sticker price maybe you should have a trusted friend (and better negotiator) contact the Tax Man. You don't want the state to "stick'er" to you do you?? Sorry, couldn't resist that. Good Luck, John Ammeter ammeterj(at)seanet.com 3233 NE 95th St Seattle WA, 98115 USA RV-6 N16JA Flying 5 years ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 14, 1996
From: Steve Mayer <72652.670(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: Compuserve
Well, I don't think it was well put at all. CIS provides a service that I kind of like. Unlike the other service that I tried, it seems to maintain a sense of decorum that seems to be lacking on the internet. AVSIG is moderated, unlike r.a.*, and abusers of the rules are occasionally asked to go elsewhere. There is a lack of namecalling, cursing, and assenine behavior that I've seen at other online services. I don't ask for much. email AVSIG rv-list access Notice that fancy browsers aren't on my list. CIS does that, but I don't often partake, because I haven't been impressed with the (www) product as yet. ----- Forwarded Message ----- [unknown], CIS:POSTMASTER FROM: Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001, INTERNET:dralle(at)matronics.com DATE: 7/14/96, 3:51 PM Re: Re: RV-List: Compuserve >-------------- >I think the only way you will get Compuserves attention in if the CS = >subscribers start cancelling their subscriptions and hooking up to other = >net providers. If you look at http://thelist.com and search by = >area code you will probably find a provider that is less expensive than = >Compuserve in your area. I realize it's a sledge hammer approach to = >Compuserve but as they start getting cancellations for the same reason, = >they will probably give the problem a real hard look. I hope the CS = >subscribers to the list can get this message. Al prober@iwaynet >-------------- Well put, Allan. I have forwarded this messages to the CS members on the List as well. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 14, 1996
From: Steve Mayer <72652.670(at)CompuServe.COM>
rv-list
Subject: Re: Lost Messages and More About Compuserve...
Matt, As disapointed as I am about not getting rv-list mail, I don't think I blame you for doing this. While we've all gotten bounced mail from other sources in the past, They're not all from the same company. With 15 Compuserve users, the problem has much more impact. >You would not believe how many nasty messages I get when something goes >wrong with the List and people end up with a bunch of bogus mail. It's your list after all, and maintaining the list is in addition to, rather than your real job. Maybe all of us should remember that when we're sending you mail to crab about our favorite cause. I've done my part by sending mail to the Customer Relations folks at CI$, and hope that the other subscribers of Compuserve are as vocal to them as they are to you. Steve Mayer RV-4 Empennage PS. So far, I'm driving to OSH alone. Leaving 7/29, returning 8/4. Anyone want to share the ride? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 14, 1996
From: Steve Mayer <72652.670(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Lost Messages and More About Compuserve...
Matt, > have "bounced" back to me as the admin of the List because of similar >issues, although in some cases I can't really figure out why it >bounced. > >So, in light of this, I think that I will have to disabled the Closed >List policy. To keep this List operating smoothly however, I am going >to disable any Compuserve email addresses until they (Compuserve) can fix >their mailer. Disabling the closed list and having CIS fix their mailer will work for CIS users, but the whining will start again when someone else's mailer screws up and sends garbage messages to the list. Why not fix those 4 user's addresses as well and maintain the closed list? Just a thought... Steve Mayer RV-4 Empennage 72652.670(at)compuserve.com ----- Forwarded Message ----- [unknown], CIS:POSTMASTER FROM: Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001, INTERNET:dralle(at)matronics.com DATE: 7/13/96, 5:46 PM Re: RV-List: Lost Messages and More About Compuserve... From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 11:08:33 -0700 Subject: RV-List: Lost Messages and More About Compuserve... Hello everyone, I'm not so sure closing the List is working so well. By closing the List (only allowing members to post messages) it requires that everyone's posting email address match the one in the List exactly. For example, Elon Ormsby was subscribed to the list as: "ormsby1(at)llnl.gov" but when he posted messages to the List, his address was: "Elon Ormsby" Majordomo doesn't see these as the same address, even though they really go to the same place. Elon isn't an isolated case. There are about 3 or 4 postings that have "bounced" back to me as the admin of the List because of similar issues, although in some cases I can't really figure out why it bounced. So, in light of this, I think that I will have to disabled the Closed List policy. To keep this List operating smoothly however, I am going to disable any Compuserve email addresses until they (Compuserve) can fix their mailer. I *really* hate to do this especially since there are currently about 15 people on the RV-List with addresses from Compuserve. But, in the interest of preserving the sanity of the List and not bombing the whole List with hundereds of messages when a Compuserve user's mail box fills up, it is really the only thing I can do. I have thus far received *zero* response from Compuserve regarding this problem. Perhaps if the 15 Compuserve members on the List all sent email and/or called Compuserve on the phone and complained about this they might try to address it. Or, maybe just tryed a different service provider. If you opt to send a message to the Postmaster at Compuserve ("postmaster(at)compuserve.com") here are some of the issues you should mention: 1) Why do I have an email quota at all? 2) Why does the Compuserve mailer send a "mail box" full message back to the sender? [And these are the *really* big questions...] 3) Why *does* the Compuserve mailer send the "mail box full" messages back to the "From: " address header? It shouldn't in light of 4 and 5 below. 4) Why *doesn't* the Compuserve mailer send the "mail box full" messages to the "Errors-To: " and/or the "From " address header? 5) Why *doesn't* the Compuserve mailer observe the "Precedence: bulk" header and not send informational "mail box full" at all? Even if you are not a member of Compuserve, you may want to send a message to Compuserve regarding these issues. I am going to put a moratorium on all Compuserve email addresses on the RV-List until I have received positive conformation that these issues have been resolved. I truly apologize to all of the Compuserve users on the RV-List, but I am going to have to remove them from the RV-List until this is addressed. This will be the last message Compuserve members will receive from the List until the problem is resolved. I am truly sorry for all the problems this has caused. Matt Dralle RV-List Admin. Matronics -- ################################ +----------------------+ ##### ######## +--------------------------+ | ######## ############ | Matt G. Dralle | | #### #### #### #### #### | Matronics | | #### #### #### #### #### + | P.O. Box 347 | | #### #### #### #### #### | | Livermore, CA 94551 | | #### ##### #### #### | | 1+ 510-606-1001 Voice | + # # ## ##### ### ## # # # ### ## | | 1+ 510-606-6281 FAX | ## ## # # # # # # # ## # # # ## | | dralle(at)matronics.com | # # # #### # ### # # # ## # # ## | +--------------------------+ # # # # # # # ## # # # ### ## +-----------------------+ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GHLX34A(at)prodigy.com (MR GEORGE T KILISHEK)
Date: Jul 14, 1996
Subject: HS Skin: Unwanted Holes
I've now finished drilling and dimpling the skins on my RV-8 HS. I have several excess, ugly and unwanted 3/32" holes in the skin. (The result of zeal, good intentions and an overabundance of klutziness). Does anyone know how to fix them, camoflage them, or make them go away? George Kilishek RV-8. Ready to rivet HS Skins ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 14, 1996
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Lost Messages and More About Compuserve...
> >-------------- > >Thanks for sacrifycing 15 people for 3 or 4 with strange Email addresses... > >-------------- Yeah! I think Matt's doing a crappy job and should be fired. Do you suppose the guy who posted this will volunteer to take over? Seriously though, I want to thank Matt for putting up with all these hassles, and not giving up adminstering the RV-list, which he does on his own time for free, and not letting the whiners get to him. I hope everyone understands that if it weren't for Matt, an his willingness to spend a lot of continuing time and effort on it, there would be no rv-list at all. Personally if the bogus messages and such get to be too much for me I'll just unsubscribe. In the mean time I'm damn thankful to Matt just for being there to make the hard choices! Randall ________________________________________________________________________________
From: gksugar(at)gate.net (gregory warr)
Subject: Re: HS Skin: Unwanted Holes
Date: Jul 14, 1996
In article prodigy.com!GHLX34A(at)matronics.com (MR GEORGE T KILISHEK) writes: >Received: from matronics.com by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP (8.6.12/SMI-4.1) >Received: by matronics.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) >Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com >Message-Id: <199607142129.RAA29434(at)mime2.prodigy.com> >X-Mailer: Prodigy Internet GW(v0.9beta) - ae01dm04sc03 >From: prodigy.com!GHLX34A(at)matronics.com (MR GEORGE T KILISHEK) >Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 17:29:11, -0500 >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: HS Skin: Unwanted Holes >Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >X-UIDL: 8796f7db534b6d9ee872420fcc3c89f7 >I've now finished drilling and dimpling the skins on my RV-8 HS. I >have several excess, ugly and unwanted 3/32" holes in the skin. (The >result of zeal, good intentions and an overabundance of klutziness). > Does anyone know how to fix them, camoflage them, or make them go >away? >George Kilishek >RV-8. Ready to rivet HS Skins George, Without replacing the whole skin and surely you can't weld the holes closed, try completing the hole (dimple-debur). Go ahead and set a rivit in the hole. When the plane is finished and painted chances are no one will ever notice the "extra " rivits. been there/ done that ! Greg Warr N-524 kw gksugar(at)gate.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bcg007(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 14, 1996
Subject: metal fairings
I want to have a polished aluminum RV6. Does anyone know if there are metal fairings to replace the standard fiberglas?? Jon Scholl RV6 empennage 80% complete ________________________________________________________________________________
From: av8r(at)hic.net
Date: Jul 14, 1996
Subject: Re: HS Skin: Unwanted Holes
>I have several excess, ugly and unwanted 3/32" holes in the skin. >(The result of zeal, good intentions and an overabundance of >klutziness). Does anyone know how to fix them, camoflage them, or >make them go away? Fill up the ugly and unwanted holes with ugly and unwanted rivets - they will look fine after paint etc. If anyone asks why the "extra" rivets - if they can see them at all that is, take the fifth or make up a good line in Bull$%#$. Keep it straight! Regards Rob Lee, av8r(at)hic.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Jul 14, 1996
Subject: Re: Up my VS
>Before I close my VS, is there a special type of strobe wire that I can run >to the tip? I would much rather clamp down a piece of wire than install a >'runner' through which I could pull the correct cable. In other words, is >there a standard type of cable that strobe systems use? Such as RG-59 like >cable TV uses. Is it even co-axle wire or just shielded? Does the >'Electric Connection' guy write about such things in his book? > Ron: It's not coax, it's shielded cable that carries high voltage. Not the kind of stuff you want to splice any more than you have to. But I've got a better idea (IMHO)....forget the strobe on the VS and put a 3 strobe system on. This must be my pet peeve but I don't think you can get too many strobes on an RV. These thing are fast and small. Both make them hard to see. In 2 years of flying mine I've noticed that others have a hard time picking me up as traffic. I have tip landing lights and a 3 strobe system and I run everything on approach and departure. Yea all of this costs money, but I think it's well spent. Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 14, 1996
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: HS Skin: Unwanted Holes
> I've now finished drilling and dimpling the skins on my RV-8 HS. I > have several excess, ugly and unwanted 3/32" holes in the skin. (The > result of zeal, good intentions and an overabundance of klutziness). > Does anyone know how to fix them, camoflage them, or make them go > away? Put rivets in them. Also you might try checking the RV-list archives. This was discussed very recently (i.e. within the last 2 months). Randall Henderson Editor, Home Wing Newsletter http://www.edt.com/homewing randall(at)edt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com>

Subject: RV6 Empennage
Date: Jul 14, 1996
I just went through this with my 8 rudder. I had "riveted myself into a corner" and couldn't reach the center two of the four lower rivets. I took a second look at the plans and saw the "optional" lightening hole. I put my fly cutter in my hand drill (ignoring all placarded safety warnings) and cut a hole in the brace. Now my squeezer with Avery's longeron yoke not only reached the bottom four rivets but also made it possible to use AN rivets at the top of the brace where it joins to the skin/rib (the plans specify pop rivets there). I would think that even if you didn't have a fancy squeezer yoke that once you cut the lightening hole you'd be able to buck the rivets. And by cutting that hole you also save a quarter of a gram of weight! -Mike ---------- From: pressenter.com!dougweil(at)matronics.com[SMTP:pressenter.com!dougweil(at)matronic s.com] Sent: Saturday, July 13, 1996 4:58 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6 Empennage > > I'm stumped-- > > Building RV6, working on the rudder. Have skeleton built; skin has stiffners > on. The whole assembley is in the v-jig. My question concerns the R410 > rudder horn brace. > > It fits, but how do you buck the rivets to attach it? My R404 rib is already > attached to the spar (out of order?) and I know I can attach the brace to it > after removing the skins, but how to attach the brace to the R605 control > horn? (the tabs of R410 and the rib preclude reaching in). > > I think I did something out of order. If anyone can decipher my problem, > have you got any suggestions? > > Also, any way to avoid pop rivets near this brace? > Jon: I too used ended up debating on how to buck these rivets. I finally decided, since they are not very visible to use blind rivets. However, be sure to use a true Cherry Max rivet (approved for structural applications). They are pricet at around a buck each, but you only use a small number. Doug Weiler, MN Wing, RV-4 in progress ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: metal fairings
Date: Jul 14, 1996
Jon, I don't know where to get metal fairings (I think you will have to make = them....do you have an english wheel? -G-) But I was wondering if you = have considered what it is going to be like flying a polished RV? When I = got my $40,000 free demo ride in the red 6A Bill Benedict and I were = discussing that polished RV that was featured in Sport Aviation some = months back. He said that as great as that plane looks it is a real pain = to fly on sunny days as the sun's reflection will get to you from one = curve or another. Now the guy who owns that plane will probably get on = the list and tell me I'm wrong but I'm only repeating what was told to = me. It made a lot of sense to me....just a thought Al = prober(at)iwaynet.net ---------- From: aol.com!Bcg007(at)matronics.com[SMTP:aol.com!Bcg007(at)matronics.com] Sent: Sunday, July 14, 1996 7:10 PM Subject: RV-List: metal fairings I want to have a polished aluminum RV6. Does anyone know if there are = metal fairings to replace the standard fiberglas?? Jon Scholl RV6 empennage 80% complete ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 14, 1996
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: Re: RV6 Empennage
You wrote: > >I'm stumped-- > >Building RV6, working on the rudder. Have skeleton built; skin has stiffners >on. The whole assembley is in the v-jig. My question concerns the R410 >rudder horn brace. > >It fits, but how do you buck the rivets to attach it? My R404 rib is already >attached to the spar (out of order?) and I know I can attach the brace to it >after removing the skins, but how to attach the brace to the R605 control >horn? (the tabs of R410 and the rib preclude reaching in). > >I think I did something out of order. If anyone can decipher my problem, >have you got any suggestions? > >Also, any way to avoid pop rivets near this brace? > >Jon Scholl >Plano, TX >RV6 24718 > Hi Jon, Did you cut the lightening hole in the R-410? I seem to recall that with the lightening hole, it was pretty easy to reach in with a squeezer and squeeze the rivets. (I do have a 3 inch yoke for my squeezer.) If you haven't cut the lightening hole, I recommend you do so. I don't think it decreases the strength of the brace. In fact, it might even increase it. Hope this helps. Best regards, Bill Costello -- Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246 Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 14, 1996
From: Dana Breda <rv6av8r(at)ols.net>
Subject: Re: Powder Coating Steel Wing Parts
>Seriously, though, it's a lot of fun. Quick question; I've already mentioned ot >the list that I've powder coating all the steel in the tail, it looks great, and >it's my intention to do the same with the wing. In the case of the four plates >that splice the spar together, I'm assuming that I have to figure out a method >of keeping the powder coat out of the holes. Any suggestions as to how to do >this? I also have a slightly different version of the same problem with some >plate nuts that I want to powder coat...I'm assuming that I somehow have to keep >the threads uncoated. Any thoughts or comments on this would be much >appreciated... > >Cheers... > >Terry in Calgary >S/N 24414 >"Hey look Michelle, wing tips!" > > I just finished a Kitfox which came with all its steel parts powder coated (that's a bunch!). Nothing had been protected from the paint, but it was no big deal to clean it out. It was really tough paint & I think it would be great to do the RV with it, but IMHO it would take as much (or more) time to protect the holes as it would to clean 'em up afterward. I would protect the threads in the nutplates, tho, maybe with a cheap screw threaded in. Dana Breda N138DB (-6 flying since '92) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LBERTLING(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 14, 1996
Subject: SalesTaxes and Homebuilts
First, let me introduce myself, my name is Leo and I have been lurking on the list for months. I hope to start building an RV-6A (S/N 24017) about September or October. About the sales tax issue.... Here in Iowa, a local builder registered with the county recorder. They sent him quarterly statements which he fills in. Anything purchased within the state is of course exempt from tax, it's already been paid. Out of state purchases are taxes at Iowa's 5% rate. So he pays his taxes quarterly on any purchases. Now when he is ready to fly, he has on to pay the registration taxes. So while he does not get to avoid sales tax, at least he can pay it in small bites as he goes along. A plan I intend to follow as well. My two cents worth... Leo Bertling lbertling @ aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 14, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: Lost Messages and More About Compuserve...
> >> >-------------- >> >Thanks for sacrifycing 15 people for 3 or 4 with strange Email addresses... >> >-------------- > >Yeah! I think Matt's doing a crappy job and should be fired. Do >you suppose the guy who posted this will volunteer to take over? > >Seriously though, I want to thank Matt for putting up with all these >hassles, and not giving up adminstering the RV-list, which he does on >his own time for free, and not letting the whiners get to him. > > >Randall > > Matt puts up with a lot of crap from a few members of the list. Not many people would do that with no payback. He does it for FREE. I have always felt that if I'm paid I may have to put up with something I don't like; I don't have to do it if I'm not paid for it. Matt does what he does because he WANTS to; not because he has to. Let us all remember that we'd be back to building our RV's without 500 other people willing to help if Matt decides that the crybabies are too much. I'll get off my soapbox now and let someone else hold the talking stick. John Ammeter ammeterj(at)seanet.com 3233 NE 95th St Seattle WA, 98115 USA RV-6 N16JA Flying 5 years ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 14, 1996
From: "A. Reichert" <reichera(at)clark.net>
Subject: Re: Lost Messages and More About Compuserve...
On Sun, 14 Jul 1996, Randall Henderson wrote: > Yeah! I think Matt's doing a crappy job and should be fired. Do > you suppose the guy who posted this will volunteer to take over? > > Seriously though, I want to thank Matt for putting up with all these > hassles, and not giving up adminstering the RV-list, which he does on > his own time for free, and not letting the whiners get to him. I agree, and support Matt's actions. > I hope everyone understands that if it weren't for Matt, an his > willingness to spend a lot of continuing time and effort on it, there > would be no rv-list at all. True. I administer a list of my own from my system, and the list users are very appreciateive of that. > Personally if the bogus messages and such get to be too much for me I'll > just unsubscribe. In the mean time I'm damn thankful to Matt just for > being there to make the hard choices! As am I. I have also run into the problem on my list, and I, too, have had to boot users from a particular ISP for a similar problem. It's not a matter of sacrificing users, but a matter of not allowing another ISP's problems to affect another system. Fortunately, the user I had to boot was very underwstanding of the problem. An admistrator must take actions that minimize impact on his or her system, not ones that hide a problem. - Alan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 14, 1996
Subject: Re: oil strainer to oil filter conversions
<< I was flying along at 2000 ft today, running off the last couple of hours off of my 25 hr test time, and the OAT was 98 degrees !!!! oil temp was 220. I next climbed to 9500 where the OAT was still around 80 degrees!! and the temp was right at 195 in cruise - question, does this still sound too high ?? I've replaced the oil cooler with a 13 >> According to Lycoming, temps should be: 140 min., 180-200 normal op., 245 max. Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 14, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: metal fairings
But I was wondering if you have considered what it is going to be like flying a polished RV? When I got my $40,000 free demo ride in the red 6A Bill Benedict and I were discussing that polished RV that was featured in Sport Aviation some months back. He said that as great as that plane looks it is a real pain to fly on sunny days as the sun's reflection will get to you from one curve or another. Now the guy who owns that plane will probably get on the list and tell me I'm wrong but I'm only repeating what was told to me. It made a lot of sense to me....just a thought I talked to Dave Ander's wife at S&F this year as she was wiping down their award winning, polished RV-4. I told her how clever I thought her husband was in getting her to do the distasteful job of cleaning and polishing the bare aluminum. She said that they were going to paint it. Enough was enough. They wanted to spend their time flying. I had a polished C-170, what a pain. Dew, fingerprints, light rain and especially bugs called for another cleaning and polishing. Eventually, the Alclad will be polished off. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 14, 1996
From: bcon(at)ix.netcom.com (Robert M. Cornacchia )
Subject: Re: Banquet at Oshkosh
You wrote: > > > >To confirm for those that want spots at the Banquet table in Oshkosh, I will > > >post this list on the RV list every so often. > >The following are comfirmed for the banquet Sunday 7PM 8-4-96: > > Tim Wooten 1 > Curtis Hinkley 1 > Mike Cheney 1 > Joe Lewis and friend 2 > Eric & Carolyn Barnes 2 > Bill Costello 1 > Sis 'Veronica' Costello 1 > Dave Musgrave 1 > John Musgrave 1 > Jim Cone & wife 2 > Larry Groom & 3 friends 4 > Danny Kight 1 > Joel Harding 1 > Chris Harding 1 > Greg Bordelon 1 > Rob Lee 1 > Steven Spruell 1 > John Zidek and friend 2 > > >If I have missed anyone, let me know. > > >Cecil > > > > > Hi Cecil, Add me to the list. Bob Cornacchia bcon(at)ix.netcom PS will it be at the Pioneer Motel? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Davis" <jdavis1(at)ford.com>
Date: Jul 15, 1996
Subject: metal fairings
boundary="PART-BOUNDARY=.19607150823.ZM756.pd8.ford.com" -- --PART-BOUNDARY=.19607150823.ZM756.pd8.ford.com I have been the proud owner of a highly polished 1946 Luscombe 8A for many years and am currently building a FULLY PAINTED RV6. Polished airplanes are great for show but require a substantial amount of work to keep up. Also, any imperfections in the building of the airplane will be "VERY" apparent when polished. I love a polished airplane and would never put paint on the Luscombe. My RV on the other hand will be a go places, low maintaince (hopefully), traveling machine.. If you feel the need to polish, I recommend Rolite and a soft cloth. I polish by hand, but I know several people that use a wheel. I spent about 8 hrs. at the airport this weekend and got my cowl polised (8A) so it looks like a mirror.. A couple more days and I will be ready for Oshkosh.. --- Forwarded mail from rv-list(at)matronics.com From: "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> Subject: RE: RV-List: metal fairings Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 20:24:35 -0400 [ text/plain Encoded with "quoted-printable" ] : Jon, I don't know where to get metal fairings (I think you will have to make them....do you have an english wheel? -G-) But I was wondering if you have considered what it is going to be like flying a polished RV? When I got my $40,000 free demo ride in the red 6A Bill Benedict and I were discussing that polished RV that was featured in Sport Aviation some months back. He said that as great as that plane looks it is a real pain to fly on sunny days as the sun's reflection will get to you from one curve or another. Now the guy who owns that plane will probably get on the list and tell me I'm wrong but I'm only repeating what was told to me. It made a lot of sense to me....just a thought Al prober(at)iwaynet.net ---------- From: aol.com!Bcg007(at)matronics.com[SMTP:aol.com!Bcg007(at)matronics.com] Sent: Sunday, July 14, 1996 7:10 PM Subject: RV-List: metal fairings I want to have a polished aluminum RV6. Does anyone know if there are metal fairings to replace the standard fiberglas?? Jon Scholl RV6 empennage 80% complete ---End of forwarded mail from rv-list(at)matronics.com -- ******************************************************************************** Jeffrey S. Davis Chassis Technical Specialist Ford Motor Company ******************************************************************************** --PART-BOUNDARY=.19607150823.ZM756.pd8.ford.com Jon, I don't know where to get metal fairings (I think you will have to make t= hem....do you have an english wheel? -G-) But I was wondering if you have= considered what it is going to be like flying a polished RV? When I got = my $40,000 free demo ride in the red 6A Bill Benedict and I were discussi= ng that polished RV that was featured in Sport Aviation some months back.= He said that as great as that plane looks it is a real pain to fly on su= nny days as the sun's reflection will get to you from one curve or anothe= r. Now the guy who owns that plane will probably get on the list and tell= me I'm wrong but I'm only repeating what was told to me. It made a lot o= f sense to me....just a thought Al prober(at)iwaynet.net ---------- From: aol.com!Bcg007(at)matronics.com[SMTP:aol.com!Bcg007(at)matronics.com] Sent: Sunday, July 14, 1996 7:10 PM Subject: RV-List: metal fairings I want to have a polished aluminum RV6. Does anyone know if there are me= tal fairings to replace the standard fiberglas?? Jon Scholl RV6 empennage 80% complete --PART-BOUNDARY=.19607150823.ZM756.pd8.ford.com-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 15, 1996
Subject: Re: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
<< Does anyone have any experience / advise on how to deal with state sales tax on homebuilts. The state that I live in (New York) cross references FAA registrations with state sales tax. Last December I submitted the paperwork to the FAA and received my registration. Today, I received a letter from the New York State Department of Taxation informing me that I owed state sales tax on the aircraft that I now "own", along with 30% penalties and interest. New York charges sales tax (usage tax) on all purchases made outside of New York, but used within New York. The kit components fall under this category. A builder who has spent up to $50,000 on the project (assuming all new components) could easily face a $4,500 bill from NYS. Come to think of it, anyone who just registered a set of drawings(serial number) from Van's with the FAA would encounter this problem of NYS demanding sales tax. Wouldn't they? Has anyone else been faced with this situation? If so, I'd appreciate knowing how it was handled. If you don't want to clutter up the list with replies, personal e-mail replies would be greatly appreciated. -Scott N506RV (installing cowl, wishing I lived in Montana) >> Scott: In CT., we have a similar situation. When I received the majority of the RV-6A kit, I sent in the Sales/usage tax (within the alloted time perid for no penalty) with a letter that identified the aircraft kit serial number, and state that I would notify them when I received a federal registration number. After federal registration, the FAA notified the stat of CT. and I received a nasygram indicating that I had not paid the tax. I sent them a letter back with a copy of my canceled check and all the paperwork originally sent. They were satisfied that the tax had been paid........... The moral here isthat, if you abide by your states laws up front, and keep them happy as early as you can, you have less problems..... and maybe less tax! Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 15, 1996
Subject: Re: FWD: COWL/ENGINE DROP
<< lso, if new mounts compress as they age; why not pre-load them in a cheap fixture during the couple of years it takes to get in the air? Or is vibration the factor that accelerates the sag? Why not use harder rubber? If hard rubber will not dampen as well; then how does an aged, sagging, compressed, rubber biscuit do any dampening? >> Has anyone gone throught the process of swapping the lower for upper lord mounts? How big a project is this? Can it be done without removeing the engine OR all the gear aound the engine? My nose has dropped over 3/8" in 725 Hrs of operation. I noticed at the last oil change that the alternator pulley has touched the inside of the cowl (probably during a hard pullup or turbulence). Wouldn't take much contact to put a small hole in the cowl. Any suggestions? Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 1996
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com>
Subject: Re: Up my VS
>Before I close my VS, is there a special type of strobe wire that I can run >to the tip? I would much rather clamp down a piece of wire than install a >'runner' through which I could pull the correct cable. In other words, is >there a standard type of cable that strobe systems use? Such as RG-59 like >cable TV uses. Is it even co-axle wire or just shielded? Does the >'Electric Connection' guy write about such things in his book? > >Thanks in advance > >Ron > > >Ron Dunn #80078 >RV-8 > HS in jig >Broken Arrow, OK > > > Ron, If I were you, I wouldn't go any further than putting snap plugs and a pull string in the VS. On my RV-6A, I didn't even do this before closing and I was able to get the strobe lead run on the forward side of the spar. Remember, you are early in the construction of your -8. Over the next few years, you WILL change your mind about various configurations. Heck, my RV-6A started out as an RV-6 !! If you were to clamp the lead inside the VS prior to closing, it would make repairs impossible without running a new wire, drilling new holes, installing snap plugs and abandoning the wire that is clamped. Hope this helps. Scott N506RV (Finished trimming & drilling cowl to firewall hinges :) scottg(at)villagenet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Jul 15, 1996
Subject: metal fairings
He said that as great as that plane looks >it is a real pain to fly on sunny days as the sun's reflection will get to >you from one curve or another. Now the guy who owns that plane will probably >get on the list and tell me I'm wrong but I'm only repeating what was told >to me. It made a lot of sense to me....just a thought > > AND... I heard a story from Airplane Plastics in Dayton (Where I got my canopy) about Anders having to replace his canopy because it started to melt in one place as the sun hit the polished metal just right and focused in the canopy. Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca
Date: Jul 15, 1996
Subject: Re: Cowl Droop and Engine Droop
A little trig gives the following down thrust angles for a .25 inch drop at the spinner. I can't remember the distance from the mounts to the prop plane so here are three. 24" .60 degrees 30" .48 degrees 36" .40 degrees This assumes that the sag is pure rotation. There is probably a vertical component at the mounts which reduces this angle. Down thrust raises the thrust line above the C.G. and any effect on stability is positive. It likely will be too small to notice. At 200 mph the thrust required is about 250 lb for the -6. If the aircraft is level at this speed and the down thrust is .5 deg, the vertical component of thrust is ~2 lb down. The arm from the C.G. to the tail is probably 3.5 times the arm to the prop. The resulting balance load required at the tail is small enough to be negligible. David Fried DF-6 C-____ dfried(at)dehavilland.ca ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RV-List: Cowl Droop and Engine Droop Date: 7/12/96 03:47 PM Jim Schmidt says in regard to the issuse of cowls drooping after a while: > > My friends cowl on his 0-360 dropped 3/16 to 1/4". Many that I have > seen all dropped this much. I will definetly lower mine by that much. > I understood the issue from the previous posts to be one of the engine mounts compressing after time, letting the engine sag relative to the cowl, not the cowl sagging with respect to the engine. Have I got this wrong? If it is indeed an engine sag, has anyone experimented with shims (thick washers) in the engine mounts to restore the initial position. It seems to me that maintaining the proper engine thrust line would be a proper thing to do, and that if the engine sags, resulting in nose down thrust, one would always be compensating with nose up elevator, causing more drag than otherwise. Am I nit picking? Hank Eilts eilts(at)ti.com rv6 tail in house, buying tools, building jig ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 1996
From: Brian Yablon <brian(at)lanart.com>
Subject: Rudder imperfections...
Hi Folks, A couple of nights ago, I finished riveting the stiffners to my rudder, and was quite pleased with the results. Last night, I needed to move the skins to get to something in my shop, and put them on the floor trailing edge up. I was shocked to find that the ceiling light above the skins highlighted some imperfections around the trailing edge that I had not previously noticed. Apparently, when attempting to dimple and rivet in the tight quarters near the trailing edge, I unwittingly oil-canned the skin, causing some fine creasing and dings that are visible only in a raking light. Talk about let down! Like that first scratch in your new car... Is there a way to fix this? Or will they disappear once painted? Since the rest of my airplane will be perfect and these dings will be the only thing keeping me from Grand Champion (yah, right!), I guess I can always make a new rudder if it still looks bad in a few years. Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com RV-6A #24751 Skinning the HS ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 1996
From: Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net>
Subject: Re: RV-8 acro
As I stare at my still-empty-but-square-jig, I remember a question I posed to Van's personnel at Oshkosh a couple of years ago regarding aerobatics in an RV. One of the reasons I'm building an RV is for the aerobatic performance. I know it won't be a Pitts, but it should be plenty for me. The guys at the Van's tent said that they could make specific recommendations for beefing up the structure in certain places when I actually got around to building a plane. Well, before I start sticking pieces-parts together, anybody out there have any specific recommendations on how to strengthen the empennage in anticipation of some moderately serious acro in an RV-8? Is it even necessary? The thought of pieces-parts departing the plane in flight doesn't exactly fill me with warm fuzzies. Besides, if I continue to ask stupid questions on the list, I might never have to build this plane!! Thanks. --Don McNamara #80113 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 1996
From: "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
When mail-ordering something out of state, I'm on the honor system to report the purchase and pay my home state sales tax. What happens if I physically pickup and pay for my kit at Van's, and then personally transport it back to my home state (that's happening on August 2nd )? Would I still owe tax in my home state? Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com) Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 1996
From: "J.C. Hassall" <jhassall(at)ipass.net>
Subject: Re: Up my VS
[...] >But I've got a better idea (IMHO)....forget the strobe on the VS and put a 3 >strobe system on. This must be my pet peeve but I don't think you can get >too many strobes on an RV. These thing are fast and small. Both make them >hard to see. In 2 years of flying mine I've noticed that others have a hard >time picking me up as traffic. I have tip landing lights and a 3 strobe >system and I run everything on approach and departure. Yea all of this >costs money, but I >think it's well spent. > >Regards: >Rusty Gossard >N47RG RV-4 Flying On a related note, is there any way to incorporate a couple of small Halogen (or similar) bulbs in the HS to provide illumination of the VS? The big iron use 'em with good effect. Is this an idea worth considering? J.C. Hassall jhassall(at)ipass.net RV-6 Builder Wannabee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
Date: Jul 15, 1996
Subject: Re: FWD: COWL/ENGINE DROP
> > My nose has dropped over 3/8" in 725 Hrs of operation. I noticed at the >last oil change that the alternator pulley has touched the inside of the cowl >(probably during a hard pullup or turbulence). Wouldn't take much contact to >put a small hole in the cowl. > > Any suggestions? > >Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV >wstucklen(at)aol.com > > Fred, I asked this question at our last builders meeting and the five builders who are now flying said if this happens to them they will shim the mounts. Ross Mickey rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 1996
From: "A. Reichert" <reichera(at)clark.net>
Subject: Re: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
On Mon, 15 Jul 1996, r.acker wrote: > When mail-ordering something out of state, I'm on the honor system to report > the purchase and pay my home state sales tax. > > What happens if I physically pickup and pay for my kit at Van's, and then > personally transport it back to my home state (that's happening on August > 2nd )? Would I still owe tax in my home state? I can't speak for all, but I think many states look at it like this... If you didn't pay sales tax in another state, you owe it to your home state. - Alan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 1996
From: "Scholl Jon" <scholl.jon(at)smtpgw.bcg.com>
Subject: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
What state agencies do I contact to figure this out? I want to be pro-active (and "well timed"!). I live in TX. Jon Scholl RV6 empennage _______________________________________________________________________________
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Mon, Jul 15, 1996 10:40
Subject: Re: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
<< Does anyone have any experience / advise on how to deal with state sales tax on homebuilts. The state that I live in (New York) cross references FAA registrations with state sales tax. Last December I submitted the paperwork to the FAA and received my registration. Today, I received a letter from the New York State Department of Taxation informing me that I owed state sales tax on the aircraft that I now "own", along with 30% penalties and interest. New York charges sales tax (usage tax) on all purchases made outside of New York, but used within New York. The kit components fall under this category. A builder who has spent up to $50,000 on the project (assuming all new components) could easily face a $4,500 bill from NYS. Come to think of it, anyone who just registered a set of drawings(serial number) from Van's with the FAA would encounter this problem of NYS demanding sales tax. Wouldn't they? Has anyone else been faced with this situation? If so, I'd appreciate knowing how it was handled. If you don't want to clutter up the list with replies, personal e-mail replies would be greatly appreciated. -Scott N506RV (installing cowl, wishing I lived in Montana) >> Scott: In CT., we have a similar situation. When I received the majority of the RV-6A kit, I sent in the Sales/usage tax (within the alloted time perid for no penalty) with a letter that identified the aircraft kit serial number, and state that I would notify them when I received a federal registration number. After federal registration, the FAA notified the stat of CT. and I received a nasygram indicating that I had not paid the tax. I sent them a letter back with a copy of my canceled check and all the paperwork originally sent. They were satisfied that the tax had been paid........... The moral here isthat, if you abide by your states laws up front, and keep them happy as early as you can, you have less problems..... and maybe less tax! Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ by relay.bcg.com (post.office MTA v1.9.1 ID# 244-13979) with SMTP id AAA223 for ; (V3.1.1)
From: aol.com!WStucklen(at)matronics.com
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 08:58:05 -0400 Subject: Re: RV-List: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNES_ERIC(at)Tandem.COM
Date: Jul 15, 1996
Subject: Re: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
I was hoping to hear from my old tax professor at B-school, but it appears he's gone for the summer. So here's my limited sales-tax knowledge (hope it's not too repetitive). Tax is paid in the state where the product is used, not sold. It is the user's responsibility to pay this. Buying USED items (Engine!) should pre-empt paying sales tax again (hint), but this may vary state to state (like all laws seem to). I'd advise you to call them up. Most tax people I've met are real people, and look for the chance to prove they're not the bad guy. I'm sure the system is treating you as if you just bought a spam-can and didn't pay tax on it - that's not the case, and you *might* be able to get out of the penalties. Also, if you listed a value for the plane anywhere, that shouldn't be the cost basis for sales tax. Only if you sell it for an amount over the cost of the parts should you technically pay tax (and that's income tax - gain). Here's also a case for keeping track of all the costs of building the plane, especially the USED parts. That would bring down your gain if you sell it. To summarize, I believe you should only pay sales tax on the pieces purchased new, out of state. WARNING: Be careful about not being honest, at least to the point of where a trail can be found. State authorities can, and increasingly are, confiscating vehicles for more and more types of infractions. From what I've heard/read, these laws are still being refined in court. You don't want to be a part of that process! EB barnes_eric(at)tandem.com (To quickly comment on Denny's question, I believe Oregon, and only a couple other states, are sales tax free. I don't know enough about aircraft registration to know if you can actually take advantage of this though). ------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT -------- SENT 07-13-96 FROM SMTPGATE (K8DO(at)aol.com) Somewhere on this list are person(s) who know the state tax laws... In which state can a newly built aircraft be registered to avoid the extreme taxation of states like NY, etc. ? Denny ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 1996
From: mikeb(at)lsil.com (Mike Brogley 408.433.7692)
Subject: Re: Lost Messages and More About Compuserve...
Matt - Just another note of support for the great job you are doing. These folks can fix this by getting the C* tech folk to expedite their bug-squishing. When their service provider actually meets the internet e-mail standards, they can rejoin the rest of the civilized world and again bask in the bright light of the knowledge streaming forth from the RV-List . Ooh - I'm poetic today. -- Mike Brogley RV tool gatherer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 15, 1996
Subject: Re: oil strainer to oil filter conversions
Rob, You can expect a 1 to 1 ratio for oil temp & outside temp. So if your engine oil temp is 180 at 70 (outside) you can expect to see 200 at 90. My RV-6 is running about 195 with an OAT of 90. RV-4's run cooler than -6's. FYI, my CHT's are looking good except for #3 which still runs 430-440 in climb and 400-410 in cruise. Higher than I like to see but better than before. See ya at OSH Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNES_ERIC(at)Tandem.COM
Date: Jul 15, 1996
Subject: PILOTS: (Fwd) Need help from pilots....
Here's an FYI. Don't know how you guys from Colorado feel about this one... EB barnes_eric(at)tandem.com ------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT -------- SENT 07-15-96 FROM SMTPGATE (billp(at)se.tandem.com) ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: 14 Jul 96 10:46:00 -0700 Subject: Need help from pilots.... From: GeoBear(at)aol.com ------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT -------- SENT 07-14-96 FROM SMTPGATE (GeoBear(at)aol.com) Letters from pilots would certainly help on this (remember the Grand Canyon overflight issue??). Please forward to any others you know of...thanks! ------------------------------ HELP! HELP! HELP! HELP! HELP! HELP! The FAA is reviewing the possibilty of allowing commercial tour flights over the Rocky Mountain National Park - Estes Park, Colorado Federico Pena has abdicated his responsibilty to ban such flights. He has left it to the FAA to decide. The FAA is taking public comments until August 7th. Bugling elk and noisy helicopters on beautiful Fall evenings in the Rocky Mountains does not compute! If you feel the sanctity and solitude of this beautiful park will be affected by low flying aircraft and helicopters then please send your thoughtful comments to: Rules Docket (AGC-200) Docket No. 28577 800 Independence Ave S.W. Washington, DC 20591 OR e-mail comments to: nprmcmts(at)mail.hq.faa.gov Point to your mail program and do it now! Subject is Docket No. 28577 You can help by posting this IMPORTANT message to other newsgroups, forums and sites. Democracy on the Internet! Thanks Don Massey Fort Collins, CO ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 1996
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: Re: Rudder imperfections...
You wrote: > > >Hi Folks, > >A couple of nights ago, I finished riveting the stiffners to my >rudder, and was quite pleased with the results. Last night, I needed >to move the skins to get to something in my shop, and put them on the >floor trailing edge up. I was shocked to find that the ceiling light >above the skins highlighted some imperfections around the trailing >edge that I had not previously noticed. Apparently, when attempting >to dimple and rivet in the tight quarters near the trailing edge, I >unwittingly oil-canned the skin, causing some fine creasing and dings >that are visible only in a raking light. > >Talk about let down! Like that first scratch in your new car... > >Is there a way to fix this? Or will they disappear once painted? >Since the rest of my airplane will be perfect and these dings will be >the only thing keeping me from Grand Champion (yah, right!), I guess I >can always make a new rudder if it still looks bad in a few years. > > >Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com >RV-6A #24751 >Skinning the HS > > I think that is the right idea, Brian. If you are contemplating 'fixing' something that is already pretty much done, I strongly suggest you sit on it for a few months (not literally) and your perspective might be a whole lot different. If that is the only thing 'wrong' when you are done, you'll have enough to do fixing your broken jaw from the smile on your face!!! Best regards, Bill Costello -- Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246 Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mark.Richardson(at)sofkin.ca (Mark Richardson)
Subject: (Fwd) RV4 Tried to Kill Me
Date: Jul 15, 1996
Hi Folks, Found this on rec.aviation.homebuilt today. Thought you might be interested....... ********************************************************************* I needed a lift of 100 miles, mostly over water to retrieve my S-1. My buddy hops me a ride in his newly aquired RV4. Just before we get there he says "I never noticed that vibration before". Made my asshole pucker too, but he kept his altitude until he had the field made in the glide and we landed. Turned out the crossover exhaust had cracked completely off on the front right corner where the front left cylinder pipe meets the front right pipe. Burnt a hole through the cowling and delammed a fair section of the cowling. The fuel lines had all been double fire-sleeved so we may have made it a ways further, even with the engine starting to bellyache (burning fiberglass smoke into the airintake is my guess). We bojanged it back together with two hose clamps, some snipped out tin can and a wrap of lockwire, and he flew it home - over 60 miles of open water (I was in my Pitts by then). In my experience, anytime you anchor an exhaust solidly after the cylinder flange you will get a crack. The RV4 anchors the right exhaust pipe after the joint on the right side with a tube attached to the right rear cylinder. Anyone else have cracks with this arrangement? -- Guido Lepore glepore(at)direct.ca ***************************************************************************** Mark ************************************************************************ * Mark Richardson Software Kinetics Ltd * * Project Manager, Defence Systems 65 Iber Rd. * * VOX 613-831-0888 Stittsville, Ont * * FAX 613-831-1836 richards(at)sofkin.ca * ************************************************************************ * RV-6 20819 '85 Virago 750 * * EAA# - 367635 DoD# - 1506 * ************************************************************************ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Norman Scherer <nsche@seros-2s.fu.hac.com>
Subject: Re: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
Date: Jul 15, 1996
In california you would owe something called "use tax" instead of sales tax. Funny thing the rate is exactly the same. This applys to anything you buy out of state and take into the state for use. Norm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 1996
From: gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander)
Subject: Re: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
>On Mon, 15 Jul 1996, r.acker wrote: > >> When mail-ordering something out of state, I'm on the honor system to report >> the purchase and pay my home state sales tax. >> >> What happens if I physically pickup and pay for my kit at Van's, and then >> personally transport it back to my home state (that's happening on August >> 2nd )? Would I still owe tax in my home state? > >I can't speak for all, but I think many states look at it like this... > >If you didn't pay sales tax in another state, you owe it to your home >state. > >- Alan I think it actually may be even a bit worse than this. If I only pay 6% tax to another state, I believe CA would even expect the 2.25% difference to reach the 8.25% local sales tax level ...:^( However, collection is the problem .... :^) Gil Alexander gil(at)rassp.hac.com PS. If all else fails, move to Vancouver, WA ... pay 0% WA state income tax and shop across the river in Portland, OR with 0% state sales tax .... :^) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 05, 1996
From: Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us>
Subject: Re: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
r.acker wrote: > > When mail-ordering something out of state, I'm on the honor system to report > the purchase and pay my home state sales tax. > > What happens if I physically pickup and pay for my kit at Van's, and then > personally transport it back to my home state (that's happening on August > 2nd )? Would I still owe tax in my home state? > > Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com) > Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved Yes you would.... Any purchase made in another state and used (key word) in a state that has a use tax would require payment of the tax. My wife spent a year researching use tax laws in the USA. Many states are now cross linking databases to track purchases made in another state. Companies like Land's End and L.L. Bean will be greatly affected as they will have to collect the tax owed per state or pay it themselves. A suggestion thou.... Do you know anyone that lives i a state that does not collect any sales tax who might be used as the registration point. Rick Rick(at)ccc.henn.mn.us ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pmbs(at)probe.att.com
Date: Jul 15, 1996
Subject: Re: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
Not to be too light about this tax discussion, but the following occurred to me during the reading of this subject matter this morning.... If one pays a "use tax" in their particular state, how about asking for a "use tax" refund when one moves to a different state. 8<} Paul Bilodeau MT 4G-225 pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com 908-957-6611 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Terryg(at)SceptreCal.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM
Date: Jul 15, 1996
Subject: Wing Kit Question
'Listers -- I've just been through a detailed 'search and enjoy' mission with my new wing kit, and everything, with the exception of one tiny bag of hardware, was present and correct. Thank you, Van's, it looks great. One observation, for which I wouldn't mind hearing some comments, is the pre-drilled fuselage bulkheads. It would appear as though these are jobbed out to Phlogiston, and the workmanship is really good. However, I was wondering if anybody else was concerned about them *scribing* the various ID numbers into the various parts...I thought that this was a real no-no. There is a fork shaped unit, in particular, where they have scribed the numbers right at the 'crotch', which I'm assuming is pretty high stress. Anybody have any thoughts on this?? Cheers... Terry in Calgary S/N 24414 "Empennage, Wings Soon" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 1996
From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder imperfections...
Brian Yablon wrote: > I unwittingly oil-canned the skin, causing some fine creasing and dings > that are visible only in a raking light. > > Is there a way to fix this? Or will they disappear once painted? Sheesh! Only visible in a raking light!?! Ok, option 1 - avoid raking lights. Option 2 - Bondo, bondo, bondo. Option 3 - When your airframe is finished and painted, take a 5# hammer and put a single dent somewhere visible on your plane; no one will ever notice any other imperfections after fixating on the obvious. Option 4 - swap planes with me; you can blame the imperfections on me; I'll keep mum about yours. Seriously, I would bet that after primering and sanding, you won't notice them. Then, the final paint should flow out smooth. Don't expect too much, though. On an RV painted so you could not see the individual rivets, I was still able to see the rivet lines as a slight distortion in the surface. Even the plastic planes sometimes betray their bulkheads due to a slight surface distortion in this fashion. Sooner or later, you will have to give up and fly the plane anyway. Wish I was as good as to have the problem you are having; my errors go beyond threatening cosmetics to beating it up and throwing it in the river. PatK - RV-6A - Left LE parts being primed. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 1996
From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net>
Subject: Re: RV-8 acro
Don McNamara wrote: > Well, before I start sticking pieces-parts together, anybody out there > have any specific recommendations on how to strengthen the empennage in > anticipation of some moderately serious acro in an RV-8? Is it even > necessary? It seems to me that the earlier kits could be beefed up by asking for optional thicker skins; the structure was up to the stress. I can't remember if the thicker skins became standard or not, but you could ask Van's if such a thing is recommended or available for the -8. Hope this helps. PatK - RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 1996
From: Rick Solana <102131.2407(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: test: not getting list mail
Did the list go down. I haven't seen a message in several days. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jul 15, 1996
Subject: Re: test: not getting list mail
>-------------- >Did the list go down. I haven't seen a message in several days. >-------------- Your email box was full on Compuserve and caused, oh, only about 100 or so "mail box is full" messages to go to the whole List! I removed your name from the List. If your mail box is empty, you can resubscribe. I would strongly recommend that you review the archives for messages regarding this. Start looking about Thursday 7/11. There was quite a flurry of email regarding Compuserve. After reviewing the archives, I would apperciate you writing a message to Compuserve about their mailer. Thanks, Matt Dralle RV-List Admin -- ################################ +----------------------+ ##### ######## +--------------------------+ | ######## ############ | Matt G. Dralle | | #### #### #### #### #### | Matronics | | #### #### #### #### #### + | P.O. Box 347 | | #### #### #### #### #### | | Livermore, CA 94551 | | #### ##### #### #### | | 1+ 510-606-1001 Voice | + # # ## ##### ### ## # # # ### ## | | 1+ 510-606-6281 FAX | ## ## # # # # # # # ## # # # ## | | dralle(at)matronics.com | # # # #### # ### # # # ## # # ## | +--------------------------+ # # # # # # # ## # # # ### ## +-----------------------+ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 1996
From: Brian McShurley <bmcshurley(at)www.sfgate.com>
Subject: Re: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
good luck. Most airports now do ramp and hangar inventories. Any aircraft residing for more than a few days is filed on in that state as a state resident. This is what they do in CA. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 1996
From: "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov>
Subject: Sales Tax
REGARDING Sales Tax Boy, that question raised the interest level! Very strange how the lawyers on the system have remained silent. I am not a lawyer and I am equally miss-informed but so far the answers have missed a very important point. To make it simple - there "may" be TWO taxes on an aircraft. (1) property i.e. (REAL) taxes and (2) Sales tax. Some states DO NOT have a sales tax and therefore only one tax would apply. Some postings have confused these two taxes. (1) Real (or property Tax) applies in every state I know. It applies to things like boats, houses, airplanes etc. The calculation (or accessment) VARIES from state to state. It usually comes into effect upon registration but kits and homemade equipment (i.e., a/c & boats) may be treated drastically differently in different states. You must find out how your INDIVIDUAL state treats the real property tax. (2) Sales tax. This has become a hotly contested State's-Rights, Constitutional issue! Don't fall into this trap. Mis-information could cost you unnecessary big bucks. A State sales tax is exactly that- a tax on a sale (or use) in THAT state. CALIFORNIA started all of this crap when it discovered it was losing MILLIONS of dollars to the mail-order business. Californias sales taxes are so excessive that people began buying (out-of-state) from the drastically growing mail-order industry. Even though a point-of-origin sale was made in another state Calif tried to collect its tax from that state. This issue has been to the Supreme Court and California has got their hands slapped. As I understand it - only if the company has a HOME OFFICE IN A STATE does "thee" state have a right to collect a sales tax. One lister mentioned LL Bean as an example. Since LL Bean maintains a home office in Calif then (and only then) does Calif have the right to collect ITS tax from the sale eventhough it may have been ordered from a LL Bean catalog-house in Ohio. So what does this mean to kit builders. Simply this, most of our suppliers are so small that they are located only in ONE state. If you live in that state and buy in that state, then, of course, you must pay that sales tax (if they have one). But if you live in Minnesota why do you feel obligated to pay a tax in Texas if you don't live there! Put another way - if you buy from Van but you live in Idaho you should not have to pay Oregon for the pleasure of Van's business. State taxes are applied to RESIDENTS and USES in THAT state. They voted it upon themselves. Remember, the operative word - STATE. If you don't live there (or use it there) you should seriously question anyone's attempt to pick your pocket. Also, if you did not buy it in YOUR state then it was NOT A SALE in YOUR state was it? Of course, all of the above was my falable opinion only. Elon. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DougMel(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 15, 1996
Subject: Kit Aircraft Builder Magazine
I just received an offer to subscripe to "Kit Aircraft Builder" magazine. It is a bi-monthly publication for $19.95 a year. Has anyone subscribed to it? Is it worthwhile? Thanks, DougMel(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pmbs(at)probe.att.com
Date: Jul 15, 1996
Subject: Re: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
I believe NH still does not have a State Income Tax, therefore no use tax....but it might be hard to explain how it is you keep your plane in say, Minnesota and have it registered in N.H. Personally I like the idea of paying my "use-tax" as I build/buy tools/etc. I have to sleep nights.....and this seems the best way to "pay my share" and spread it out so that it doesn't hurt too much. Bought Air Compressor last week - had a great sale at Home Depot (Campbell-Hausfield 6hp 30 gal, under $300). Sent for Construction Manual for RV 6/6A...plan to build 6A. Building a bench this week...... Paul Bilodeau pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com 908-957-6611 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 1996
From: inet(at)intellisys.net (brian whatcott)
Subject: Re: Wing Kit Question
/// > There is a fork shaped >unit, in particular, where they have scribed the numbers right at the 'crotch', >which I'm assuming is pretty high stress. > >Anybody have any thoughts on this?? Cheers... > >Terry in Calgary > You could polish the scribed numbers out, if it helped you sleep better at nights? brian ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CapnTim(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 15, 1996
Subject: Re: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
> What state agencies do I contact to figure this out? I want to be pro-active > (and "well timed"!). I live in TX. In Texas contact: Comptroller of Public Accounts Austin TX 78774-0100 You want information on "State Sales and Use Tax" which is rule 3.346. They'll send it to you. For Texas, if you bring anything in to the state (with some exceptions for temporary storage and a few other cases) you owe tax. If you paid tax in another state, you get credit for that amount of tax. AOPA has a free booklet on sales and use tax. Give them a call -- it's worth your time to see what their tax experts have to say. It answers a lot of questions, and provides an overview of how sales and use tax impact aircraft purchases. Tim Lewis RV-6AQ 60023 Crates should leave Vans tomorrow via Roadway ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DerFlieger(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 15, 1996
Subject: Re: FWD: COWL/ENGINE DROP
<< Has anyone gone throught the process of swapping the lower for upper lord mounts? How big a project is this? Can it be done without removeing the engine OR all the gear aound the engine? >> Fred, you can't, or shouldn't do this because the lower mounts are more rigid in compression than the upper ones. The lower ones can be identified by a rib, I believe. Shimming the mount or the engine is the only answer unless you buy new lord mounts. Jim Stugart DerFlieger(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 1996
From: inet(at)intellisys.net (brian whatcott)
Subject: Re: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
>>On Mon, 15 Jul 1996, r.acker wrote: >> >>> When mail-ordering something out of state, I'm on the honor system to report >>> the purchase and pay my home state sales tax. >>> >>> What happens if I physically pickup and pay for my kit at Van's, and then >>> personally transport it back to my home state (that's happening on August >>> 2nd )? Would I still owe tax in my home state? >>If you didn't pay sales tax in another state, you owe it to your home >>state. >> >>- Alan > > If I only pay 6% tax to another state, I believe CA would even >expect the 2.25% difference to reach the 8.25% local sales tax level ...:^( >Gil Alexander >gil(at)rassp.hac.com > > > I keep thinking there ought to be a legitimate tax avoidance ( as opposed to evasion) method. Let's see: you're buying the kit to add value and resell - to me for instance. You don't pay tax as a reseller ( I think) You have a sole proprietor activity - which is favorably treated. When it's made, you value it at 3X the kit price ( your time is valuable, right?) I purchase it - then realise I don't want a machine that I can't self-maintain (<50% build) so I offer it back. You accept it at a bargain-price - say round the kit price. You have the sales tax to pay, balanced by the proprietorship expenses of perhaps 8 or 9 percent. Now I have to make good the 2x kit price I paid you originally. You could provide me with a non-monetary advantage of some kind. 'Sno good - I need a tax lawyer to keep this square.... Brian ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JDelveau(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 15, 1996
Subject: RV-4 enroute to Denver
Hi all, I have a friend/fellow builder here in Ankeny, Iowa that is heading to the Denver area this weekend July 19th or 20th to some drag races and is looking for an rv-related contact in the area. I don't even know exactly where at in the Denver area but I told him I would look into it. He and his wife will be flying in their RV-4. If anyone has an interest I would be glad to pass phone numbers back and forth. I think he thoughtthey might be going into Centenial but he was not sure of the location of the races. Anyone interested send me an e-mail at JDELVEAU(at)AOL.COM I have been off the list for a while but have been reading the archive every so often to keep up. I have completed my -6 wing spars, have all the ribs prep and primed, and am just about ready to start mounting the ribs to the spars. Keep building!!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: HS Skin: Unwanted Holes
George; How astute of you to recognize that you needed a few ventilation/lightening holes in your aircraft. It takes great foresight to realize that these will assist in preventing corrosion/assist in performance improvement. If after further study, you deem them to be undesirable, then a rivet will certainly assist in the beefing up of the strength of your aircraft. It did mine. Johnd I >have several excess, ugly and unwanted 3/32" holes in the skin. (The >result of zeal, good intentions and an overabundance of klutziness). > Does anyone know how to fix them, camoflage them, or make them go >away? > >George Kilishek >RV-8. Ready to rivet HS Skins > John Darby RV6 N61764 flying johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 1996
From: gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander)
Subject: COWL/ENGINE DROP
> *** snip *** > > Has anyone gone throught the process of swapping the lower for upper >lord mounts? How big a project is this? Can it be done without removeing the >engine OR all the gear aound the engine? > > My nose has dropped over 3/8" in 725 Hrs of operation. I noticed at the >last oil change that the alternator pulley has touched the inside of the cowl >(probably during a hard pullup or turbulence). Wouldn't take much contact to >put a small hole in the cowl. > > Any suggestions? > >Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV >wstucklen(at)aol.com Fred, A few years ago, I helped a RV3 owner fix his droop problem (his RV3 engine, not him) by inserting washers (the large AN970 type) between the engine mount and the rubber donuts. It was a fiddly job, but I remember it only took us a few hours. I think we only lifted the engine enough to pull out the engine mounting bolts (dynafocal) and slip in the washers. It only took one or two washers per side to remove all of his droop. I wouldn't swap rubber bushings, I'd just shim it to fit. It should be much easier. I have also seen at least one RV6 that had a slot in the cowl to provide alternator pulley (or bracket) clearance. Later, the slot got enlarged, and then turned into a small cowl "bump" to provide clearance! Dimensions must be real tight here. .... good luck .... Gil Alexander gil(at)rassp.hac.com RV6A, #20701 ... just sent a $1000 order to Rocky mountain Instruments for an engine monitor... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: gksugar(at)gate.net (gregory warr)
Subject: Re: FWD: COWL/ENGINE DROP
Date: Jul 15, 1996
In article aol.com!WStucklen(at)matronics.com writes: >Received: from matronics.com by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP (8.6.12/SMI-4.1) >Received: by matronics.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) >Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com >From: aol.com!WStucklen(at)matronics.com >Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 08:58:03 -0400 >Message-Id: <960715085803_156275536(at)emout09.mail.aol.com> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: FWD: COWL/ENGINE DROP >Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >X-UIDL: ef907f835fe51fec11488e6cac617a98 ><< lso, if new mounts compress as they age; why not pre-load them in a cheap > fixture during the couple of years it takes to get in the air? Or is > vibration the factor that accelerates the sag? Why not use harder rubber? > If hard rubber will not dampen as well; then how does an aged, sagging, > compressed, rubber biscuit do any dampening? >> > Has anyone gone throught the process of swapping the lower for upper >lord mounts? How big a project is this? Can it be done without removeing the >engine OR all the gear aound the engine? > My nose has dropped over 3/8" in 725 Hrs of operation. I noticed at the >last oil change that the alternator pulley has touched the inside of the cowl >(probably during a hard pullup or turbulence). Wouldn't take much contact to >put a small hole in the cowl. > Any suggestions? >Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV >wstucklen(at)aol.com Fred, Just a note about swapping mounts. The Lord mounts are different from top/bottom. The top mount is thicker on the forward side and vise versa for the bottom. they were made that way to compensate for the weight of the engine. Some flex has to be built in or vibration and torque will take its toll on the air frame,starting with the engine mount (not good). If the nose is dropping its maybe due to worn out mounts. Along with pilots they get old too. No problem with mine....yet. Greg Warr N 524 KW gksugar(at)gate.net RV 4 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Brown" <danb(at)a.crl.com>
Date: Jul 15, 1996
Subject: Re: Sales Tax
> From: "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> > you unnecessary big bucks. A State sales tax is exactly that- a tax on a > sale (or use) in THAT state. CALIFORNIA started all of this crap when it Your parenthetical hit the nail on the head--in many states (including California), it's a _use_ tax. Therefore, if I buy something from out of state, I'm theoretically required to mail the state a check in the amount of the "use" tax (which happens to be the same as the use tax). They can't require the seller to collect the tax and pay them, since they don't have any jurisdiction over the out-of-state seller, but they do have jurisdiction over me, as a resident. -- Dan Brown, KE6MKS, danb(at)a.crl.com Finger brownd(at)holmes.uchastings.edu for public key & Geek code ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 1996
From: "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM>
Subject: Re: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
> PS. If all else fails, move to Vancouver, WA ... pay 0% WA state > income tax and shop across the river in Portland, OR with 0% state > sales tax .... :^) And save shipping by driving to White Plains with your own truck. Just remember to build in Oregon, and keep the plane at least 90 days in Oregon before bringing it into WA (to avoid use tax). And BTW, the annual registration fee is less for Homebuilts than SpamCans by half, according to the WDOT newsletter I got recently. -- "Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!" -- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs "Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DMusgrave(at)swri.edu
Date: Jul 15, 1996
Subject: Re: FWD: COWL/ENGINE DROP
charset=US-ASCII ix.netcom.com!rmickey(at)matronics.com Wrote: | | > | > My nose has dropped over 3/8" in 725 Hrs of operation. I noticed at | the | >last oil change that the alternator pulley has touched the inside of | the cowl | >(probably during a hard pullup or turbulence). Wouldn't take much | contact to | >put a small hole in the cowl. | > | > Any suggestions? | > | >Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV | >wstucklen(at)aol.com | > | > | | Fred, | | I asked this question at our last builders meeting and the five builders | who | are now flying said if this happens to them they will shim the mounts. | Ross Mickey | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com Interesting thread! FWIW, wouldn't a 3/8" drop at the spinner end (ostensibly due to mount creep due to gravity) be somewhat removed in the dynamic mode by the propeller pulling forward with several hundred pounds of force? Before I shimmed the mounts to take out static droop, I'd see what it looks like in the running/pulling mode. Shimming the mounts seems like it might result in UP thrust when flying. Just a thought........... Dave Musgrave RV-4 looker/lurker! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 1996
From: spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com (Stephen Paul Johnson)
Subject: Drill Size for AN-3
Hi all, When drilling out the holes for the HS-411PP assembly on the rear spar of the HS on the RV-8, what is the correct drill size? I couldn't find it in the directions or the plans. It could be 3/16", #12, or even #11. Why guess when you guys are out there? I'm taking all of the steel parts in my empennage to be powder coated tomorrow thanks to reading about it here. Steve Johnson RV-8 spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kpsmith(at)sprynet.com
Date: Jul 15, 1996
Subject: Re: Paint Quantities
A friend here in Illinois recently went looking for Imron for a non-airplane project. He was unsuccessful finding any. His usual dealer said that it was being taken off the market as one of the constituents is regulated too heavily. Rumor, but the source was reliable. --Ken Smith, RV6 empanage in progress. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: av8r(at)hic.net
Date: Jul 15, 1996
Subject: Repeat / update of Oshkosh List
Hi Folks This is an updated table from the original post a few weeks ago - last chance to get in on it - Ill post the final list next weekend... (SNIP)... >Anyway, I thought it would be neat to see who will be there from the >List - so I made up this Table - add your info after mine if you are >going to OSH, and then send it to me. I'll collate the info and >repost just before OSH. Then we can all print a copy for our pockets >and take it along. Should help us to know who to be looking out for!! >If you are taking some inferior mode of transportation - i.e. not an >RV, :)- still let me know the other info please. >Regards >Rob Lee N # |TYPE| COLORS | NAME | E-MAIL |ARRIVING -------------------------------------------------------------------- N517RL| 6A |Dk. Green/Gray |Rob Lee |av8r(at)hic.net | 30th N517RL| 6A |Dk. Green/Gray |Greg Bordelon|greg(at)brokersys.com| 30th | | |Joe Lewis|lewisjw(at)hqsocom.af.mil| 31st N47RV | 3 |Maroon Silver |Jim Ayers |LesDrag(at)aol.com | 31st N141CC|RV4 |White/Red|Cliff Carpenter|ccarpent(at)pressenter.com|31st XJ60LJ|Gray motor bike |Mike Nellis|76430.2670(at)compuserve.com|2nd N77597|J-3 |Red/white |Michael Kosta |mikel(at)dimensional.com|25th N622DK|Sonerai|Blue & white|Danny Kight |kightdm(at)carol.net | 31st N666RV| 6A |Blue/Yel(Van's|Jeremy Benedict|jbenedic(at)uofport.edu|29 Driving | |Steve Johnson |spjohnson(at)mmm.com | 3rd sn24751|6A |under contruc |Brian Yablon |brian(at)lanart.com | 31st Winnebego| Wht/Blu |Eric Barnes|Barnes_eric(at)tandem.com| 30th N252CM|HR2 |silver/black | Mark Frederick| mlfred(at)aol.com | 30th auto | | |Joe Larson |jpl(at)showpg.mn.org | 1st SIS314 |Tan Saturn wgn |Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com|1st " | " | Sis Costello | " | 1st N90AV|Citabria|Blue/Yellow/White|Greg Young|gyoung(at)net1.net |30th Rob - av8r(at)hic.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 15, 1996
Subject: July issue of newsletter
The July issue of Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing newsletter is in the mail. If you don't get it in a few days, drop me an E-mail. I have had a couple of subscriber's issues get lost in our nation's finest Snail Mail System. Jim Cone, Editor jamescone(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 1996
From: finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen )
Subject: Rudder tip
I've been thinking about a transparent rudder tip (top). Ideal place for a (homemade) strobe (no drag). But how does one shape such a thing? What material and technique to use? Finn finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 1996
From: Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com>
Subject: Re: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
Richard Chandler wrote: > > > PS. If all else fails, move to Vancouver, WA ... pay 0% WA state > > income tax and shop across the river in Portland, OR with 0% state > > sales tax .... :^) > > And save shipping by driving to White Plains with your own truck. > > Just remember to build in Oregon, and keep the plane at least 90 days in > Oregon before bringing it into WA (to avoid use tax). And BTW, the annual > registration fee is less for Homebuilts than SpamCans by half, according to > the WDOT newsletter I got recently. > We pay $35.00 a year for a homebuilt here in Oregon, not bad, but the income tax and property tax more than make up for the rest. -- Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-)(Hillsboro. OR.) jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 15, 1996
From: jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com (Michael McGee)
Subject: Re: oil strainer to oil filter conversions
- I understand that changing over to using an >oil filter will do 2 things for me; >1) Double the interval for required oil changes from 25 to 50 hrs, >and... >2) Improve the engine cooling somewhat. > >Since I have the firewall recess already to accomodate the Prop >governor, I am seriously considering getting a conversion kit to allow >the use of a filter. Thge STC'd kits I've seen seem a mite high $$ and >therefore I was wondering if anyone out there has any ideas, good >deals, good deals, good deals, or suggestions on this subject. ---snip--- >Rob Lee N517RL - RV6A >av8r(at)hic.net > ADC's Oberg oil filter. I have put them in two C-182's that were used as jump planes. The tough part is swallowing the price. It is a bit steep but from my experience it is the best engine insurance that you can buy. I won't spam the list with the details but I can email it to whoever wants to hear it. It has been a few years since I purchased one so I won't guess at the price now. It was less than $600 then for the complete setup plus a couple of hundred for the AI/A&P to do his official deed. The later something you wouldn't need to deal with. I would remove a spin on filter to have one of these. Mike McGee sn 23530 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DerFlieger(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 16, 1996
Subject: Re: COWL/ENGINE DROP
<< I have also seen at least one RV6 that had a slot in the cowl to provide alternator pulley (or bracket) clearance. Later, the slot got enlarged, and then turned into a small cowl "bump" to provide clearance! Dimensions must be real tight here. >> An EARLY 6 builder friend of mine with the slot in the cowl told anyone who asked,"Oh, thats where you put the quarters in"! He also coined the term "Rider Rivets" meaning those which are used solely for filling misplaced holes. Jim Stugart DerFlieger(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough)
Date: Jul 16, 1996
Subject: Re: COWL/ENGINE DROP
This might seem like a dumb idea, but instead of shimming the Lord mounts, why not shim the engine mount at the firewall??? Hmmmm! Ken RV6A test flight this weekend I hope. (No droop yet) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough)
Date: Jul 16, 1996
Subject: Re: COWL/ENGINE DROP
This might seem like a dumb idea, but instead of shimming the Lord mounts, why not shim the engine mount at the firewall??? Hmmmm! Ken RV6A test flight this weekend I hope. (No droop yet) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 1996
From: Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
Unfortunately, there's something to be said for compliance with states' use taxes. I'd never heard of it prior to last year, then I got a letter from the Indiana Department of Revenue assessing me "use tax" for all out-of-state purchases, including magazine subscriptions, mail order items, etc. The letter went on to say that if I didn't 'fess up, they would "estimate" my use tax (didn't say how), add penalties and interest and bill me!! After lengthy conversations with my accountant, we surmised that our generous governor, in order to curry the favor of the masses, promised to decrease our automobile excise taxes we pay each year...and found a way to make up the difference in collecting the forgotten use tax! As a small business owner, it was no small feat to do my own estimation and send the state its pound of flesh. The moral of this story is that I suppose I'll grudgingly keep track of what I've spent on the plane and...maybe...after I talk with my accountant...send the 5% use tax in voluntarily. I hope we all find something else to talk about. I'm getting depressed. --Don McNamara ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Maynard, Bryon" <maynardb(at)snowmass.ksc.nasa.gov>

Subject: Re: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
Date: Jul 16, 1996
OK I just finished talking to the man in charge of collecting taxes relating to aircraft/kits purchased and residing in the State of Florida. He says that you must pay a use tax of 6% against the kit price ( Van's approx.. $10,500) which means I pay around $600. Well there goes those extra features in the instrument panel. If you have any questions regarding Florida, call Mr. "Bo" Palmer at 904-922-2663. ---------- From: seanet.com!ammeterj(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts Date: Sunday, July 14, 1996 4:25PM > ><< Has anyone else been faced with this situation? If so, I'd appreciate > knowing how it was handled. If you don't want to clutter up the list with > replies, personal e-mail replies would be greatly appreciated. > >> > >PLEASE, post this info to the list. I have wondered about it myself. I'm >sure it will be of interest to a lot of folks. > >Ed Bundy > > I'll put my $.02 worth in. In Washington State we have an 8.2% sales tax. I'm not too much of an advocate for giving the government any more than I have to. I flew my RV for about 4 to 5 years before I finally recieved a letter from the Washington State Patrol agent assigned to collecting unpaid sales tax on aircraft. The letter was a form letter and told me that I would have to pay the tax or be faced with possible criminal charges for tax evasion. Made it sound really bad. I never responded to him. I did, however, call up the tax agent in a nearby town to discuss what I may owe. He was very cooperative. He asked how much I had spent building the RV. I, being the honest citizen I am, was somewhat misleading in responding to his question. I told him that when I started building the kit that the RV kit price was around $7500 but by the time I was finished it would cost $8800. We agreed that a reasonable average price was $8000. So, my tax was .082 x 8000 = $656.00. He never asked to see the receipts either for in or out of state purchases. I got the feeling that as long as I paid some reasonably substantial sum that they would be happy. I think it helped that he was actively rebuilding a vintage car in his garage and understood the homebuilders viewpoint. He did ask about parts of the aircraft that didn't come in the kit. I mentioned that I had been collecting aircraft parts and items over the years. Couldn't remember where they all came from or when I picked them up. If you contact the tax agent with a friendly and cooperative attitude you should do ok; don't, however, tell him what a wonderful airplane the RV is and how much it's worth. Save that for after you have that tax stamp. Remember, dealing with the Tax Man is like negotiating the price on a new car. If you are the type of person that walks in and pays the sticker price maybe you should have a trusted friend (and better negotiator) contact the Tax Man. You don't want the state to "stick'er" to you do you?? Sorry, couldn't resist that. Good Luck, John Ammeter ammeterj(at)seanet.com 3233 NE 95th St Seattle WA, 98115 USA RV-6 N16JA Flying 5 years ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 1996
From: pilla(at)emmanuel.espinc.com (Michael Pilla)
Subject: For Sale: Claudio Tonini's RV-4 Wings
Claudio Tonini has replaced the standard RV-4 wings on his "Purple Passion" with new "long range" wings. (Aside, he does not recommend the chap who built his wings, contact Claudio, directly, if you are interested in having long range tanks ...) His old wings are boxed in a crate. I have seen the crate and it is ideal for shipping the completely built, used, wings (painted purple :-) Claudio asked me to post this for him. His asking price is $4,000, OBO. Please contact Claudio, directly, if interested. BTW, Claudio told me that his plane will be "showcased" right near the tower. He is glad he just got a fresh paint job, purple, of course :-) Mike Pilla RV-4, #2866, installing canopy frame Day: 800-582-3125 Eve: 908-254-8460 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 1996
From: pilla(at)emmanuel.espinc.com (Michael Pilla)
Subject: Re: Repeat / update of Oshkosh List
> This is an updated table from the original post a few weeks ago - last > chance to get in on it - Ill post the final list next weekend... > (SNIP)... > N # |TYPE| COLORS | NAME | E-MAIL |ARRIVING > -------------------------------------------------------------------- SN2866|RV-4| N/A |Mike Pilla |pilla(at)espinc.com |1st Arriving via commercial + rental car with my two grown suns. Decided at the last minute to attend and cannot attend the banquet; must return Sunday after lunch. Mike Pilla pilla(at)espinc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: K8DO(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 16, 1996
Subject: Re: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
In the states where the use tax is based upon fair market value of the vehicle, you will be paying a tax on your labor... :^( Denny ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com
Date: Jul 16, 1996
Subject: Sales Tax
RV>REGARDING Sales Tax RV>Boy, that question raised the interest level! Very strange how the lawyers RV>on the system have remained silent. I am not a lawyer and I am equally RV>miss-informed but so far the answers have missed a very important point. RV>To make it simple - there "may" be TWO taxes on an aircraft. (1) property RV>i.e. (REAL) taxes and (2) Sales tax. Some states DO NOT have a sales tax an RV>therefore only one tax would apply. Some postings have confused these two RV>taxes. >>>>Bunch of stuff cut<<<<< I haven't said anything because I'm not certain I have the correct answers. Even if I did have the correct answer, I could only be _sure_ that it was correct for the state of Colorado. Just to clarify.... the two taxes Elon talks about are actually property tax and sales tax. Under the heading of property tax is _real_ property tax (i.e., tax on real estate and other real property) and _personal_ property tax. All the taxes are "real"... as I'm sure we can all attest to. In the remainder of Elon's post which I already cut... woops... Elon talks about the big issue of whether or not State A can charge sales tax for goods shipped into State A by a mail order supplier with its principle place of business in State B who otherwise has no contacts with State A. The argument was that this violated the Supremacy clause and the Commerce clause of the Federal Constitution which generally say that interstate commerce will be the domain of Federal as opposed to State governments. The big issue in the days before mail order was the passage of trains through multiple states. At one point, Arizona determined that it would charge a fee for every train that passed through and that it would put restrictions on the train's cargo. Obviously it wasn't feasible to require the railroads to comply with every law that every state could potentially enact so the Supreme Court stepped in and declared Arizona's laws unconstitutional. Sorry, that's probably more than anyone wanted to know... :-) My fingers runneth over. In any case, the same general argument was made with regard to mail order. The problem is that I'm not _positive_ of how it all came out. I _think_ though, as Elon stated, the states lost and cannot charge _sales_ tax on mail order items unless the mail order company has a place of business in your state. As to your state's personal property taxes.... warm up your checkbook!!! Best regards to all. Rod Woodard RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com Loveland, Colorado RV-8, #80033 Construction temporarily suspended--painting garage floor tonight!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Matt993(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 16, 1996
Subject: Re: COWL/ENGINE DROP
wish you all the best with the test! Let me know how she goes! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Matt993(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 16, 1996
Subject: Re: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
sounds good! believe me we get killed in CT!!!! the tax man cometh!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Matt993(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 16, 1996
Subject: Re: For Sale: Claudio Tonini's RV-4 Wings
Also need a good used )-320 0-360 any suggestions? I just got an RV 4 project! need some help!!!! Thanks for any info you can tell me! Regards, Matt Fairy Norwalk CT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Matt993(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 16, 1996
Subject: Re: July issue of newsletter
instruments. Im going to inspect this week! May I ask two questions? 1) Where can I find someone who will inspect the RV4 before I do the final purchase? its in Columbus Ohio 2) Where can I get a good used 0)-320/ 0-360? any suggestions? Thanks for any advice you can give! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Davis" <jdavis1(at)ford.com>
Date: Jul 16, 1996
Subject: Re: RV-4 enroute to Denver
-- ******************************************************************************** Jeffrey S. Davis Chassis Technical Specialist Ford Motor Company ******************************************************************************** ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 16, 1996
Subject: Re: Rudder imperfections...
Listen to the voice of experience here, please. When you screw-up a piece of metal, either leave it alone and live with it - or replace it. You will almost always cause MORE damage trying to repair it. Metal can only stand to be bent a few times. Don't believe me...go ahead and try to repair it...then call Van's at 503.647.5117. Tell 'em Gary sent ya. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC (flying with a lot of replacement parts) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 1996
From: "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
>Florida. He says that you must pay a use tax of 6% against the kit >price ( Van's approx.. $10,500) which means I pay around $600. Well >there goes those extra features in the instrument panel. If you have I guess I'll have to pay Calif$&#nia's 7.75% on my $20K quickbuild kit. So I won't have anything in the instrument panel :( Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com) Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 1996
From: "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
>I hope we all find something else to talk about. I'm getting depressed. > >--Don McNamara Me too. Very. Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com) Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com>

Subject: Re: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
Date: Jul 16, 1996
Don't look at it that way, as the only tax you have to pay is on a completed, flying aircraft. I bet you that once I've flown "Daddy's Little Angel" that I'll be able to pay (assuming I have any money left) with a smile. I can't wait for this to be my biggest problem! -Mike ---------- From: r.acker[SMTP:ix.netcom.com!r.acker(at)matronics.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 1996 10:54 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Sales Tax on Homebuilts >I hope we all find something else to talk about. I'm getting depressed. > >--Don McNamara Me too. Very. Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com) Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rotary conversion
Date: Jul 16, 1996
From: Marc LeFevre <rv8(at)hpbs2412.boi.hp.com>
Listers: Here's a new thread. Many of you have probably read about the rotary conversion in the latest issue of Sport Aviation. They didn't talk about fuel consumption or at what RPM that 200 HP is generated. Does anyone on the list know any of those folk and can get SFC and other data. I, for one, am very intested. If Van is willing to make a positive comment about this engine, it must be pretty good. I hope that when the time comes for me to buy an engine, the price hasn't shot up to $20K! Marc LeFevre rv8(at)hpbs2412.boi.hp.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 1996
From: Charles H Fink <CHFINK(at)envc.sandia.gov>
Subject: Oil Filter Option
you wrote >I,m flying my 6A with an old 0-320 out of a Mooney M-20 >that came >equipped with the old type oil strainer. (don't laugh it was >state of >the art back in 1956!!! - I understand that changing over to >using an >oil filter will do 2 things for me;------> >Rob Lee N517RL - RV6A >av8r(at)hic.net I was faced with the same dilemma and solved it by installing a remote filter adapter for a Ford engine from a speed shop. Many racers use remote filters. At any rate the Ford filter (Motorcraft FL1) has the same gasket diameter and pipe thread as the aircraft filters (Champion CH4810). I mounted the adapter on the firewall and plumed the filter in series with the oil cooler. Approximate cost; adapter $15, two aeroquip hoses and fittings $45, total about $60. Advantages include better access to the filter, less oil spillage during a filter change (my filter is mounted vertically), no firewall recess required, and much cheaper than aircraft adapters. Disadvantages: additional hoses and fittings that may leak. Also if your engine is equipped with the temperature control valve that bypasses the oil cooler your oil will only be partially filtered. My engine isn't so my oil is fully filtered. If you install this system use ONLY aircraft filters. Their housing is heavier for the higher operating pressures of ac engines, they have provisions for safety wire, and they have an internal bypass should the filter clog for some reason. Charles Fink RV-6 N548CF flying (28 hr) chfink(at)envc.sandia.gov 12313 Woodland N.E. Albuquerque, NM 87112-2531 H505-292-8197 W505-848-0977 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 1996
From: Greg Puckett <71155.2336(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: Sales Tax
RV>REGARDING Sales Tax RV>Boy, that question raised the interest level! Very strange how the lawyers RV>on the system have remained silent. I am not a lawyer and I am equally RV>miss-informed but so far the answers have missed a very important point. Boy I thought having an Email address of compuserve.com was a bad thing. But it sure beats Lawyernet.com. Until we get someone with address of irs.gov I think Rod is screwed. Greg Puckett 71155.2336(at)compuserve.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: frankv(at)pec.co.nz
Date: Jul 17, 1996
Subject: Re: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
>>I hope we all find something else to talk about. I'm getting depressed. >Me too. Very. Well, just to make you feel better... here in NZ we pay 12.5% GST (Goods & Services Tax) on almost everything we import. That includes freight on what we import, Customs charges (can you believe it... they charge us to take our money, then tax us on the charges!), and all the other hanger-on charges. OTOH, if I export my RV, I can claim back that GST. A tempting thought is to move to the US (Oregon of course), then move back to NZ, bringing back the RV kit as household effects (no GST on that). Another thought is to do a Jon Johanson RTW trip -- export the RV, fly it round the world, then import it back into NZ (at a substantially lower value, of course, since it's used and has lots of hours on it). -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass; Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read". PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!" http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ | -------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 1996
From: csanchez(at)BayNetworks.com (Cheryl Sanchez)
Subject: Re: July issue of newsletter
> >Id love to recieve it! Just got My RV4 its finished except for engine and >instruments. >Im going to inspect this week! >May I ask two questions? >1) Where can I find someone who will inspect the RV4 before I do the final >purchase? >its in Columbus Ohio >2) Where can I get a good used 0)-320/ 0-360? any suggestions? > > >Thanks for any advice you can give! > I have an O-320-E2A for sale. It is zero since overhaul and has a total time of 2575. It was overhauled by Tew-Mac Aero in Tewksbury, Mass. The engnine is located in Mass. It has chrome cylinders, mags, harness, carburatur and starter. The engine is yellow-tagged and I have the logs. I removed it from the 6A project that I purchased from Gary Bataller last year. The 320 was replaced with a 360. If anyone is interested please email me for more info. Thanks. Cheryl Sanchez csanchez(at)world.std.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bcg007(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 16, 1996
Subject: N numbers
How do I reserve an N number (I'm obviously pretty new at this, huh?) Jon Scholl RV6 empennage Plano (read "plain old") TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Jul 16, 1996
Subject: Re: "Long Range Tanks"
>Id love to learn more about those long range wings....where can I get info? >Also need a good used )-320 0-360 any suggestions? > > > >Matt Fairy Norwalk CT > Matt: I don't know what Claudio did but other 4 builders have used 6 tanks which go over one more rib. I have standard tanks and on occasion it would be nice to have a few more gallons for IFR reserves. If I had it to do all over I think I would put the 6 tanks on. Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: frankv(at)pec.co.nz
Date: Jul 17, 1996
Subject: Re: Rotary conversion
In <199607161930.AA264745418(at)relay.hp.com>, on 16 July 96 at 01:30 PM, Marc LeFevre said: >Listers: >Here's a new thread. Many of you have probably read about the rotary >conversion in the latest issue of Sport Aviation. They didn't talk >about fuel consumption or at what RPM that 200 HP is generated. Does >anyone on the list know any of those folk and can get SFC and other >data. A friend here has a Mazda 13B rotary he's built for aircraft (not an RV) use. He says 212HP at 5800RPM with a turbo. I don't know fuel consumption, but think it's fairly high. I'm also told the latest 13Bs will do 214HP normally aspirated, and at a more reasonable fuel consumption. >I, for one, am very intested. If Van is willing to make a >positive comment about this engine, it must be pretty good. I hope >that when the time comes for me to buy an engine, the price hasn't >shot up to $20K! I didn't see the article you mentioned... possibly it's about Tracey Crook or Dave Atkins? I have copies of Tracy Crook's articles on using a 13B in an RV-4. The January 'Kitplanes' also had an article on the Dave Atkins who's putting together a firewall-forward rotary package for RVs -- the article included a photo of a rotary running in a -6. On the minus side, I'm told that since Ford bought Mazda, they're discontinuing rotary production. Anyone have hard information on this? -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass; Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read". PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!" http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ | -------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 1996
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
> >I guess I'll have to pay Calif$&#nia's 7.75% on my $20K quickbuild kit. So >I won't have anything in the instrument panel :( Suddenly the freight to Australia is looking much cheaper (distance tax?) Leo Davies 6A: Putting in the nth nutplate in the seat region. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: For Sale: Claudio Tonini's RV-4 Wings
Date: Jul 16, 1996
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB7358.8C1010C0 Matt, I'm in Columbus, Ohio.... Anything I can do to help? Where is the RV-4 located..... Exactly...... at an airport or in a suburb? Al Mojzisik prober(at)iwaynet.net 614-890-6301 ---------- From: aol.com!Matt993(at)matronics.com[SMTP:aol.com!Matt993(at)matronics.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 1996 12:19 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: For Sale: Claudio Tonini's RV-4 Wings Also need a good used )-320 0-360 any suggestions? I just got an RV 4 project! need some help!!!! Thanks for any info you can tell me! Regards, Matt Fairy Norwalk CT ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB7358.8C1010C0 eJ8+IhYAAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ACQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADAHAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAEkAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20AU01UUABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20A AAAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABYAAABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20A AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAYAAAAJ3J2LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbScAAgEL MAEAAAAbAAAAU01UUDpSVi1MSVNUQE1BVFJPTklDUy5DT00AAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYP AQAAAAQAAAAAAAAHPDcBCIAHABgAAABJUE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90ZQAxCAEEgAEAMwAA AFJFOiBSVi1MaXN0OiBGb3IgU2FsZTogQ2xhdWRpbyBUb25pbmkncyBSVi00IFdpbmdzAB8QAQWA AwAOAAAAzAcHABAAFAAzABAAAgBDAQEggAMADgAAAMwHBwAQABQAMwAQAAIAQwEBCYABACEAAAAw OEVCMEFFNTQxREZDRjExOEQyQTQ0NDU1MzU0MDAwMAAFBwEDkAYApAQAABIAAAALACMAAAAAAAMA JgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQDgaboPenO7AR4AcAABAAAAMwAAAFJFOiBSVi1MaXN0 OiBGb3IgU2FsZTogQ2xhdWRpbyBUb25pbmkncyBSVi00IFdpbmdzAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABu3N6 D7LlCusR30ERz40qREVTVAAAAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAEwAAAHByb2Jl ckBpd2F5bmV0Lm5ldAAAAwAGEB7GP74DAAcQ7wEAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAE1BVFQsSU1JTkNPTFVN QlVTLE9ISU9BTllUSElOR0lDQU5ET1RPSEVMUD9XSEVSRUlTVEhFUlYtNExPQ0FURURFWEFDVExZ QVRBTkFJUlBPUlRPUklOQVNVQlVSQj9BTE1PSloAAAAAAgEJEAEAAAAPAwAACwMAAHgFAABMWkZ1 jyvq2v8ACgEPAhUCqAXrAoMAUALyCQIAY2gKwHNldDI3BgAGwwKDMgPFAgBwckJxEeJzdGVtAoMz dwLkBxMCgH0KgAjPCdk78RYPMjU1AoAKgQ2xC2DgbmcxMDMUUAsKFFEtC/JjAEAF0GECQCwgQwqF CoVJJ20gC4AgJwhQCkAG0HVzGzBPaBhpby4dgRSwbnl0Jx1QGRAcICBjA5FkbwQgdB7QaGVscD/4 ICBXHyAWEBxgBCAeAMEf0FJWLTQgFaAegI0T0GQdgh2wIEV4AND4dGx5ISMhYRsAInADoGkLcHJw FbEgBbEccWHIIHN1HPByYh9hG00iQQ+xb2p6BABpaxMKhRNQb2IEkEBpd2hheW4RwC4nMQqFNgAx NC04OTAtNhgzMDEbXAr0bGkxpDgwAtFpLSggNA3w5wzQKrMLWTE2CqADYBPQ+SHAIC0s1wqHK4sM MCxW+kYDYTot3ixWDIIicAbwEi4FoG0hGvI5OTOaQADAdANgAwBjczHCwFtTTVRQOjGfMqp+XS1/ Lo0GYAIwL78wy1SZClBzZCcQGzBKdSHgViAsIBswMTSANjqQMmI6OuAgUE01ry6NVMZvN+8wy3J2 LSoQE8DvMow7vza+I/BqLJE93zDLbFJlQ3AgYUw/8UNwRisFsQYQbEVhQwtgdWRvHWA9oQMAAwAn BCAgY1fNHiFzKN8p4zM2K1caReksVklkIKF2H9Ae8UaA/wrAA6AEYB/BAaAIYAVAHgDubxGwIKEe MXIZAR/QA/D7SEEdgncfox6CHmBOEAVA6wuAAhA/JPdzHtAnMAmAaSOxZ28EcCAdAFEBKfQtMwHQ IChwSdEioTqA/SPgZ04QE8AdYACAUBYbXXwgah0ABUBRUCKTIGAg9yCQJoFDMiFQ1FCwB4AfEy4h V6FTvxuJVBGAbmufBCACEAXAUrJP0iB5CGD7HnMT0GwDIAeAV98Ko0VQ/mcLER0QW+8KshryL2Ai 4U06gE4FsCcAbGsckFS/Xb9JH0ovLJIKhRUxAGRwAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcwwKmAmXNz uwFAAAgw4Gm6D3pzuwEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAMRO ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB7358.8C1010C0-- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 1996
From: Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)interhop.net>
Subject: Re: FWD: COWL/ENGINE DROP
Fred., I am just putting on an alternator, and I used 4" pulley as suggested. It just touches the cowling already, so I am having to make bulge to accommodate it. Even a smaller alternator would not help, as the 4 " pulley is right under the fly wheel. Incidentally I bought the generic alternator bracket from Van's, and it came with some useful suggestions about selecting an alternator. I would have preferred to get a really good, new alternator, but the price difference is too great. Especially as I am at the stage where I need lots of items to complete, and each of them seems to cost $1,000 John, starting to do the wiring. RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 1996
From: "Timothy W. Whitman" <71610.2013(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: shock cooling bypass
Has anyone used a dump valve in the engine baffling to reduce the cooling while decending at low power levels? Seems like it would be simpler and less drag most of the time compared to external cowl flaps. Tim W. fitting the 6A canopy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 1996
From: bcon(at)ix.netcom.com (Robert M. Cornacchia )
Subject: Re: Repeat / update of Oshkosh List
You wrote: > >Hi Folks > >This is an updated table from the original post a few weeks ago - last >chance to get in on it - Ill post the final list next weekend... >(SNIP)... > >>Anyway, I thought it would be neat to see who will be there from the >>List - so I made up this Table - add your info after mine if you are >>going to OSH, and then send it to me. I'll collate the info and >>repost just before OSH. Then we can all print a copy for our pockets >>and take it along. Should help us to know who to be looking out for!! >>If you are taking some inferior mode of transportation - i.e. not an >>RV, :)- still let me know the other info please. >>Regards >>Rob Lee > > N # |TYPE| COLORS | NAME | E-MAIL |ARRIVING >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >N517RL| 6A |Dk. Green/Gray |Rob Lee |av8r(at)hic.net | 30th >N517RL| 6A |Dk. Green/Gray |Greg Bordelon|greg(at)brokersys.com| 30th > | | |Joe Lewis|lewisjw(at)hqsocom.af.mil| 31st >N47RV | 3 |Maroon Silver |Jim Ayers |LesDrag(at)aol.com | 31st >N141CC|RV4 |White/Red|Cliff Carpenter|ccarpent(at)pressenter.com|31st >XJ60LJ|Gray motor bike |Mike Nellis|76430.2670(at)compuserve.com|2nd >N77597|J-3 |Red/white |Michael Kosta |mikel(at)dimensional.com|25th >N622DK|Sonerai|Blue & white|Danny Kight |kightdm(at)carol.net | 31st >N666RV| 6A |Blue/Yel(Van's|Jeremy Benedict|jbenedic(at)uofport.edu|29 >Driving | |Steve Johnson |spjohnson(at)mmm.com | 3rd >sn24751|6A |under contruc |Brian Yablon |brian(at)lanart.com | 31st >Winnebego| Wht/Blu |Eric Barnes|Barnes_eric(at)tandem.com| 30th >N252CM|HR2 |silver/black | Mark Frederick| mlfred(at)aol.com | 30th >auto | | |Joe Larson |jpl(at)showpg.mn.org | 1st >SIS314 |Tan Saturn wgn |Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com|1st > " | " | Sis Costello | " | 1st >N90AV|Citabria|Blue/Yellow/White|Greg Young|gyoung(at)net1.net |30th > >Rob - av8r(at)hic.net > add me to the list N5754Q Mooney W/R/G Bob Cornacchia bcon(at)ix.netcom.com 3rd ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 1996
From: "Stephen M. Brown" <smbrown(at)cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Drilling HS skins... oops
Double Arghhh, this was *just* addressed and I didn't see it. I've been saving most emails for the last 14 months, haven't had a chance to read most; I've got real work to do. Self-inflicted RTFM. >Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 23:51:08 -0700 >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >From: "Stephen M. Brown" <smbrown(at)cisco.com> >Subject: Drilling HS skins... oops > >Arghhh! While drilling through the skin into the forward spar (HS-602), I missed, and might as well missed by a mile (1/4"). What do I do about the gaping hole in the skin? can this be covered later or am I out of luck?? > >Elsewhere I missed the edge distance, about 1 dia instead of 2, what to do? > >How depressing, and I thought I was making such progress :-( > -- Steve Brown System Engineer Cisco Systems - Phoenix ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 1996
From: "Stephen M. Brown" <smbrown(at)cisco.com>
Subject: Drilling HS skins... oops
Arghhh! While drilling through the skin into the forward spar (HS-602), I missed, and might as well missed by a mile (1/4"). What do I do about the gaping hole in the skin? can this be covered later or am I out of luck?? Elsewhere I missed the edge distance, about 1 dia instead of 2, what to do? How depressing, and I thought I was making such progress :-( -- Steve Brown System Engineer Cisco Systems - Phoenix ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 17, 1996
Subject: Re: Sales Tax
<< EGARDING Sales Tax ***SNIP*** >To make it simple - there "may" be TWO taxes on an aircraft. (1) property >i.e. (REAL) taxes and (2) Sales tax. Some states DO NOT have a sales tax and >therefore only one tax would apply. Some postings have confused these two >taxes. >(1) Real (or property Tax) applies in every state I know. It applies to >things like boats, houses, airplanes etc. The calculation (or accessment) > VARIES from state to state. It usually comes into effect upon registration > but kits and homemade equipment (i.e., a/c & boats) may be treated drastically > differently in different states. You must find out how your INDIVIDUAL state > treats the real property tax. CT does not have a Property tax on Aricraft. They do have a registration fee, whitch is considerably less than the property tax on auto's. The property tax on aircraft was dropped in 1993. >(2) Sales tax. >*****SNIP*** > Even though > a point-of-origin sale was made in another state Calif tried to collect its > tax from that state. This issue has been to the Supreme Court and California > has got their hands slapped. As I understand it - only if the company has a > HOME OFFICE IN A STATE does "thee" state have a right to collect a sales tax. > One lister mentioned LL Bean as an example. Since LL Bean maintains a home > office in Calif then (and only then) does Calif have the right to collect ITS > tax from the sale eventhough it may have been ordered from a LL Bean > catalog-house in Ohio. CT also tried to do this, and was successfull up until a few years agao. Now, instead of tring to collect the tax from the other states, they use sales records to go after the purchaser, i.e., you and me... Bottom line,IMO, is that you work with your tax people. Give them what they expect. Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 17, 1996
Subject: Clear Rudder tip
ix.netcom.com!finnlass(at)matronics.com (Finn Lassen) writes: << 've been thinking about a transparent rudder tip (top). Ideal place for a (homemade) strobe (no drag). But how does one shape such a thing? What material and technique to use? Finn finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com >> Why not vaccuum form your own clear plastic part? Make a mold, the same way you would for fiberglass. You could even make it out of wood, but that would be a lot of work. Drill #70 holes in the mold, with spacing between the holes at about 1" on all internal surfaces. Be sure the inside surface is still smooth. The top edge surface of the mold also must be smooth, as the plexi has to be sealed against this surface. Next, make a manifold for the underside of the mold. This effectively places the mold in a box. The manifold has to be airtight against the mold. Make a vaccuum cleaner hose attachment on the manifold. Now comes the real fun part. Use 1/8" plexi to start. You may have to go thicker if you have a deep part. The concept is to heat up the plexi to the melting point. This can be done with an electric heating element over the plexi. The commercial ones I've seen used a heater that looked like a kitchen counter top broiler element, but larger. The plexi is placed over the mold and secured with a small frame and screws. Heat the plxi to the point it sags, then vaccum it down into the mold. With some experimentation, you'll get to know the right plexi melting point. Hope that helps..... Fred Stucklen RV-6A (925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com --------------------- From: ix.netcom.com!finnlass(at)matronics.com (Finn Lassen) Date: 96-07-16 01:23:04 EDT I've been thinking about a transparent rudder tip (top). Ideal place for a (homemade) strobe (no drag). But how does one shape such a thing? What material and technique to use? Finn finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com
Date: Jul 17, 1996
Subject: Rotary conversion
They're talking $15k for a relatively unknown auto conversion. I am trying to imagine sitting in the airplane and setting 5800 rpm for takeoff. I can't do it!!. We don't need another overpriced boat anchor of questionable reliability. I am not a big fan of Lycoming but these guys have got to be kidding thinking anybody would drop $15k on one of these things when a factory O-320 is only $2k more. I will quit now before anyone thinks I am opinionated. John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Matt993(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 17, 1996
Subject: Re: N numbers
> I dont know either! > I can even seem to respond to the RV Ator without screwing up the format! > so when you figure out the N number perhaps you'll let me know! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Matt993(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 17, 1996
Subject: Re: July issue of newsletter
Im Interested! How can I find out more? how much do you want? can I go to Mass and see it? Im in CT. PLEEZE - let me know! Thanks , Matt ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Matt993(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 17, 1996
Subject: Re: For Sale: Claudio Tonini's RV-4 Wings
Dear Al, Boy oh boy what a friendly voice! Thank you so much for your offer! I have a deposit on an RV4 built by chapter 009 its is finished minus engine/ instruments. It is at an iarfield (unmarked) approx a half hour drive from Ohio State University. If you can inspect it for me and give the low down, I would of course be more than happy to cover any expenses you may incur! - Please let me know what you think! I look foreward to hearing from you. If you want to call me 203-831-9588 W 203-855-8967H ( call collect if you wish) I look foreward to hearing from you. Thanks again , Matt ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 1996
From: Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com>
Subject: Re: shock cooling bypass
More air flow = more drag, but this is what you want during a decent. Your idea sounds like something to investigate. Chris > > Has anyone used a dump valve in the engine baffling to reduce the cooling while > decending at low power levels? Seems like it would be simpler and less drag > most of the time compared to external cowl flaps. > > Tim W. fitting the 6A canopy > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 1996
From: "Stephen M. Brown" <smbrown(at)cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Wing Kit Question
While attendind the Builders Seminar in February, Ken Scott and Phil ??? specifically recommended the buzz-type scribes for identification of parts; the advantage is the marks are visible after priming. To put this in perspective, Ken identified a 'scratch' as something your fingernail actually stopped in, not a surface mark. >'Listers -- I've just been through a detailed 'search and enjoy' mission with my >new wing kit, and everything, with the exception of one tiny bag of hardware, >was present and correct. Thank you, Van's, it looks great. > >One observation, for which I wouldn't mind hearing some comments, is the >pre-drilled fuselage bulkheads. It would appear as though these are jobbed out >to Phlogiston, and the workmanship is really good. However, I was wondering if >anybody else was concerned about them *scribing* the various ID numbers into the >various parts...I thought that this was a real no-no. There is a fork shaped >unit, in particular, where they have scribed the numbers right at the 'crotch', >which I'm assuming is pretty high stress. > >Anybody have any thoughts on this?? Cheers... > >Terry in Calgary >S/N 24414 >"Empennage, Wings Soon" > > > -- Steve Brown System Engineer Cisco Systems - Phoenix ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 1996
From: Charles H Fink <CHFINK(at)envc.sandia.gov>
Subject: Voltage Regulators & Batteries
You wrote >Does anyone have any thoughts on voltage regulators? I >don't know much about >them, but I was wondering what the difference is between >the unit Van's sells >at $36 and the one I can buy at the local auto parts store >for $13. >Ed Bundy >ebundy2620(at)aol.com I am a little late but here is my $.02 on voltage regulators. The voltage regulator you choose to use depends on your battery choice. The three realistic battery choices for aircraft are the wet cell, sealed immobilized electrolyte (gel-cell), and recombinant-gas (RG). All of these are variations of the lead-acid cell but due to construction and operation they each require a different charging voltage. The standard wet cell battery (auto) is typically charged at 14.8 volts, the RG battery should have a charged voltage no higher than 14.2 and the gel cell 13.8 V. Van's sells the RG type battery. The wet cell batteries may be recharged at a fairly high rate thus they will recharge to full capacity on even short flights. So why not use a standard *maintenance free* auto battery? Because these batteries vent a corrosive and potentially explosive mixture of gasses that is generated during recharge (note the corrosion around the terminals and battery tray on you car if it is a few years old). These batteries must be vented to the outside to be legally used on aircraft. This means sealing the battery box and venting it to the outside. Do you really want this in your airplane? The construction of gel-cell and RG batteries is very similar. Rather than having a flooded (wet) cell their electrolyte is immobilized in an absorbent material resulting in a spill proof rugged battery. The gel-cells are almost completely sealed and must be charged at a low rate to reduce the generation gasses during recharge. The RG battery can be charged at a higher rate because it has cells that recombine these gasses rather than allowing them to build up inside the case or vent them. The amount of gasses vented by either of these batteries is so low they may be legally used in unsealed battery boxes. Voltage Regulators: most automotive regulators are not adjustable and regulate the alternator near the optimum 14.8 V for a wet cell battery which is higher than recommended for RG batteries and would destroy a gel-cell in short order. Charging any battery at a voltage higher than recommended will result in reduced battery life so you pay your money and take your chances. If you are using Van's RG battery the auto regulator will work and keep the battery charged but it will reduce the life expectancy of the battery. By how much? I don't know. For additional information see the series on batteries by T.E. Gilland in Kitplanes April through June 92 and Tony Bingelis in the January 92 issue of Sport Aviation. Several aircraft parts vendors sell adjustable voltage regulators so the alternator output may be adjusted to match the battery installed but they are considerably more expensive than auto regulators. I elected to use the battery and voltage regulator Van's sells with a Motorola automotive alternator. Airplanes are a never ending series of choices and compromises and when you throw in the freedom we have as homebuilders it can seem overwhelming at times but hang in there, ask questions, look at factory ac, homebuilts, and automobiles. See what works and what looks marginal (hint, if it looks marginal it probably is). Charles Fink RV-6 N548CF flying (28 hr) chfink(at)envc.sandia.gov 12313 Woodland N.E. Albuquerque, NM 87112-2531 H505-292-8197 W505-848-0977 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 1996
From: "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: N numbers
>How do I reserve an N number (I'm obviously pretty new at this, huh?) > >Jon Scholl >RV6 empennage >Plano (read "plain old") TX > I don't have the information here at work, but the rv-list archives detail the procedures. Worked for me . Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com) Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KennyCobb(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 17, 1996
Subject: Wanted: Wing Kit for -4
Does anyone have or know of a wing kit for sale for a -4 . Ken Crabtree Bakersfield, CA Kenny Cobb @ aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 1996
From: spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com (Stephen Paul Johnson) (by way of gil(at)rassp.hac.com
(Gil Alexander))
Subject: Re[2]: Drill Size for AN-3
RV-listers, I originally sent this privately, since I thought Steve (and the RV-list) would be flooded with replies. Since this wasn't the case, and Steve thought it would be a useful post ... here it is. Most of these reamers can also be bought at local industrial tool supply stores in your local town. Also from the MSC catalog -- see archives from about 4 weeks ago. They sent me free the "mother of all catalogs" - hard-backed and at least 4 inches thick! ... Gil Alexander *** original message *** Steve, #12 is the correct size for an AN-3 bolt, and is mentioned lots of places in the RV6 plans (must have dropped it off the -8 plans though .:^) Since I always prefer that my bolts fit nicely, especially in the thinner steel parts, I like to drill #13, and then ream to #12 for a nice,smooth, slip fit. I use the reamer in a hand-held cordless drill at a slow speed .. this seems to work well, just keep the reamer square to the work. Van specifies size "letter D" for a hole for AN-4 bolts, but this might actually work out a little tight if you have an accurate hole. I believe Avery sells a reamer that is just a shade larger. If you want, I can look up some actual sizes and get you a precise dimension .... These reamers are quite inexpensive ($5-$10) so it makes sense to buy these two sizes now ... they will be used over and over again for all parts of the kit. There's nothing like a nice fitting bolt to make you feel that your RV is being well built!! Personal opinion only, but I think this bolt fitting work is one area where the Orndorff tapes (only have the RV6 fuselage and finish ones) don't do a good job. ... good luck ... Gil Alexander, Tech. Counselor, EAA Chapter 40 gil(at)rassp.hac.com RV6A, #20701 Gil, Thanks a lot. I think your reply should have gone to the whole list, as there are a lot of us rookie -8 builders, and I didn't see it in the empennage plans-though I will look again since you now have me curious. I will check the Avery catalog for the reamers you mentioned. Cleaveland sells reamers only in the inch sizes. Thanks again for the help. Steve ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 17, 1996
Subject: Re: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
<< If one pays a "use tax" in their particular state, how about asking for a "use tax" refund when one moves to a different state. >> AAAAH HAAAA HAAA HAAA HAAAA !!!! Oh, sorry, were you serious? :^) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 17, 1996
Subject: Re: Wing Kit Question
<< One observation, for which I wouldn't mind hearing some comments, is the pre-drilled fuselage bulkheads. It would appear as though these are jobbed out to Phlogiston, and the workmanship is really good. However, I was wondering if anybody else was concerned about them *scribing* the various ID numbers into the various parts...I thought that this was a real no-no. There is a fork shaped unit, in particular, where they have scribed the numbers right at the 'crotch', which I'm assuming is pretty high stress. >> That's a good point. I wondered about the same thing. When I first started my project I followed the construction manual to the letter regarding removing every single scratch, no matter how insignificant. After having some knowledgeable EAA members and A&P's inspect my project their response was unanimous: "You're spending WAY too much time on this." After showing them the scary stuff in the front of the construction manual, they all seemed to think that Van was being conservative for the people who don't pay much attention to instructions, not the "verbatim" types like myself. This was further reinforced when I called Van's about the scribed numbers on the bulkhead and spar strips. The person I spoke with obviously thought I was being ridiculous, and said that small scribe marks like that wouldn't cause any problem. I reminded them that the manual says that ALL scratches should be removed, and he replied that only "deep" ones need to be removed. I thought that those scribed numbers were pretty "deep" myself... Obviously we want to build the best airplane we can, but I'd like to fly mine this century. Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 17, 1996
Subject: Re: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
<< I just finished talking to the man in charge of collecting taxes relating to aircraft/kits purchased and residing in the State of Florida. He says that you must pay a use tax of 6% against the kit price ( Van's approx.. $10,500) which means I pay around $600. Well there goes those extra features in the instrument panel. If you have >> Just the kit? What about the engine, instruments, etc? Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Jul 17, 1996
Subject: Re: shock cooling bypass
> >> >> Has anyone used a dump valve in the engine baffling to reduce the cooling while >> decending at low power levels? Seems like it would be simpler and less drag >> most of the time compared to external cowl flaps. >> >> Tim W. fitting the 6A canopy Tim: Risky idea IMHO. If it would fail open you're screwed. If you plan your decents right it's really no big deal. Just plan ahead. AND even if it would work, would you get even cooling? Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 1996
From: "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov>
Subject: Shock cooling
REGARDING Shock cooling Tim: Automatic Modulation of external cowl flaps has been discussed at length a few months back. There were some nice ideas offered using automotive thermostatic actuators. However, your idea is different. Is your dump valve a butterfly or sliding valve? Does it protrude into the air stream like cowl flaps? How are you dumping the ram air? -Elon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 1996
From: Michael Zenner <mvz(at)cats.ucsc.edu>
Subject: Rotary conversion
>They're talking $15k for a relatively unknown auto conversion. I am >trying to imagine sitting in the airplane and setting 5800 rpm for takeoff. >I can't do it!!. > >We don't need another overpriced boat anchor of questionable reliability. >I am not a big fan of Lycoming but these guys have got to be kidding thinking >anybody would drop $15k on one of these things when a factory O-320 is >only $2k more. I will quit now before anyone thinks I am opinionated. > Ahh, but here you make a small mistake: The Powersports conversion is a firewall forward kit, meaning it comes with a fuel injection system, an ignition system, an alternator, a starter, and even a cowling (I'm sure I left something out), so there's a whole bunch less stuff to buy and slap on. When the dust settles, that Lycoming installation is probably going to cost a lot more than $2K more than the conversion. Also, according to the Sport Aviation article, this is the ONLY auto conversion that Van himself has ever even come close to saying might be a reasonable, non-Lycoming method of powering an RV. Also, in the apples to apples department, the Powersport conversion develops 200HP at 5800RPM, so comparing it to the 160HP O-320 is probably not a very accurate comparison. I'm not even going to start talking about what happens at rebuid time, except to say that you could probably swap in another factory new rotary for about a quarter of what a Lyc rebuild would cost... But in all fairness, I'm still waiting. It'll be a few years before I'm ready to buy an engine, and if by that time Powersports is still around and has a few engines out in the field, it might just be what I buy. $0.02 (Cha CHING!) Michael Zenner CP-AMSEL-IA "There is a fascination with mvz(at)cats.ucsc.edu flying that is difficult to Program In Experimental Psychology explain, and hard to University of California, Santa Cruz resist" - G. Curtiss ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 1996
From: Robert Moore <bobmoore(at)WWD.NET>
Subject: Re: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
aol.com!EBundy2620(at)matronics.com wrote: > Just the kit? What about the engine, instruments, etc? SSHHHHHHH! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 1996
From: "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM>
Subject: Baffling idea
With this talk about shock cooling and ways of reducing the airflow during descent, I figured it might be a time to ask about some thoughts I've been having about engine baffling. Now obviously I'm a number of years off from this, but after hearing about some people's cooling problems, I had a few ideas. First though, let me make sure my basic understanding is right. Engine baffles make sure that air flowing over the engine for cooling passes between the fins on the Cylinders for maximum heat removal. Basically, you build a box around the top half of the Cylinders that is closed except for the opening at the front of the cowl, where the air comes in, and the gaps between the fins, where it coes out. Occasionally you'll have problems with the amount of air and where it flows, causing the rear cylinder to run hotter because more of the cooling air flows over the front. Am I right so far? My idea was to divide the baffling further. Starting with the plate that fits between the cylinders, baffle up and over the front cylinder towards the intake. Thus providing seperate air passages for each cylinder. To adjust for even cooling, move the leading edge of the baffle up or down to control how much of the intake air goes to each cylinder. Like so: (Gee, ASCII graphics are tough!) +---------------------- | _____________ | +---+ | +---+ |__| |--+--| |----- +---+ +---+ Or is there something horribly wrong with this idea? -- "Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!" -- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs "Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 1996
From: finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen )
Subject: Re: "Long Range Tanks"
You wrote: > >>Id love to learn more about those long range wings....where can I get info? I looked at his RV-4 at sun-N-fun. He has 2 fuel caps in each wing. Looked like 2 standard tanks side by side. Finn ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 1996
From: finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen )
Subject: Re: Wing Kit Question
You wrote: > > >While attendind the Builders Seminar in February, Ken Scott and Phil ??? >specifically recommended the buzz-type scribes for identification of parts; >the advantage is the marks are visible after priming. To put this in >perspective, Ken identified a 'scratch' as something your fingernail >actually stopped in, not a surface mark. > Please read an RV construction manual. Van specifically mentions someone using a scribe to mark aluminum as not acceptable. Finn finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 1996
From: sarg314(at)AZStarNet.com (Tom Sargent)
Subject: Rotary conversion
I, too, am intrigued by the rotary engine (and astounded at Van's semi-approval). But the article in Sport Aviation didn't address a question that I've always had about these engines; do they vibrate a lot less than a piston engine? (The article discussed only tortional vibration modes.) I think most people underrate the importance of vibration. The "RV4 tried to kill me" note posted here a day or so ago was about a cracked exhaust pipe that was almost certainly caused by vibration. It tires the pilot and fatigues the whole airframe and engine. Does any one know about the rotaries' vibration characteristics? --- Tom Sargent, Tucson, AZ, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Jul 17, 1996
Subject: Re: Baffling idea
>Occasionally you'll have problems with the amount of air and where it flows, >causing the rear cylinder to run hotter because more of the cooling air flows >over the front. > >Am I right so far? > >My idea was to divide the baffling further. Starting with the plate that fits >between the cylinders, baffle up and over the front cylinder towards the >intake. Thus providing seperate air passages for each cylinder. To adjust >for even cooling, move the leading edge of the baffle up or down to control >how much of the intake air goes to each cylinder. > >Like so: (Gee, ASCII graphics are tough!) > >+---------------------- >| _____________ >| +---+ | +---+ >|__| |--+--| |----- > +---+ +---+ > >Or is there something horribly wrong with this idea? > > >-- > Richard: I installed Van's stock baffle kit on my 360. The only adjustment required was No. 1 ran cool by about 20 degrees. I put a 1 inch dam in front of No 1 and it balanced the head temps to within 10 degrees. You need to be very careful about adjusting airflow. If you create a hot spot you can seize a ring and nasty things will happen. Adjusting flow to each cylinder would be tricky, and potentially expensive if you guess wrong. If you really want to be different you could try a sealed system where the baffle has a top and doesn't rely on the cowl to seal the top. This system is used on some aircraft but makes more junk to take on and off. IMHO the stock system works well and is really not an issue. Shock cooling is no big deal if you plan ahead and having a cooling alarm such as the one in EI's ultimate scanner will let you know if you're overcooling. Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying 2 years ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Fuel Vent Filters Mailed Wednesday
I mailed the fuel vent filters today. If anyone ordered some and they don't arrive let me know. The first ones I mailed out arrived with postage due. Hopefully, this time they are packaged in a manner the USPS approves of. John Ammeter ammeterj(at)seanet.com 3233 NE 95th St Seattle WA, 98115 USA RV-6 N16JA First flight August 1990 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 1996
From: Steve Mayer <72652.670(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: Repeat / update of Oshkosh List
You wrote: > >Hi Folks > >This is an updated table from the original post a few weeks ago - last >chance to get in on it - I'll post the final list next weekend... >(SNIP)... > >>Anyway, I thought it would be neat to see who will be there from the >>List - so I made up this Table - add your info after mine if you are >>going to OSH, and then send it to me. I'll collate the info and >>repost just before OSH. Then we can all print a copy for our pockets >>and take it along. Should help us to know who to be looking out for!! >>If you are taking some inferior mode of transportation - i.e. not an >>RV, :)- still let me know the other info please. >>Regards >>Rob Lee > > N # |TYPE| COLORS | NAME | E-MAIL |ARRIVING >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >N517RL| 6A |Dk. Green/Gray |Rob Lee |av8r(at)hic.net | 30th >N517RL| 6A |Dk. Green/Gray |Greg Bordelon|greg(at)brokersys.com| 30th > | | |Joe Lewis|lewisjw(at)hqsocom.af.mil| 31st >N47RV | 3 |Maroon Silver |Jim Ayers |LesDrag(at)aol.com | 31st >N141CC|RV4 |White/Red|Cliff Carpenter|ccarpent(at)pressenter.com|31st >XJ60LJ|Gray motor bike |Mike Nellis|76430.2670(at)compuserve.com|2nd >N77597|J-3 |Red/white |Michael Kosta |mikel(at)dimensional.com|25th >N622DK|Sonerai|Blue & white|Danny Kight |kightdm(at)carol.net | 31st >N666RV| 6A |Blue/Yel(Van's|Jeremy Benedict|jbenedic(at)uofport.edu|29 >Driving | |Steve Johnson |spjohnson(at)mmm.com | 3rd >sn24751|6A |under contruc |Brian Yablon |brian(at)lanart.com | 31st >Winnebego| Wht/Blu |Eric Barnes|Barnes_eric(at)tandem.com| 30th >N252CM|HR2 |silver/black | Mark Frederick| mlfred(at)aol.com | 30th >auto | | |Joe Larson |jpl(at)showpg.mn.org | 1st >SIS314 |Tan Saturn wgn |Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com|1st > " | " | Sis Costello | " | 1st >N90AV|Citabria|Blue/Yellow/White|Greg Young|gyoung(at)net1.net |30th > >Rob - av8r(at)hic.net > add me to the list blue Chevy wagon Steve Mayer mayer(at)bose.com 1st ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 1996
Subject: METAR/TAF training materials
From: inet(at)intellisys.net (brian whatcott)
>From July 1st, US civil aviation sources converted surface observations and terminal forecasts to the ICAO METAR and TAF formats which other ICAO signatories have been using for some time. The FAA has produced an 8-page pocket guide as pub num FAA/ASY-20 96/001 You can call 202-267-7770 or FAX 202-366-7083 for a copy. The FAA homepage has a pointer to the Nat Weather Service METAR/TAF info on its homepage: http://www.faa.gov/osite.htm#weather The NWS homepage has useful pointers to other FAA resources on its homepage: http://www.nws.noaa.gov/oso/oso1/oso12/metar.htm ref:USAF unclassified briefing materials. brian Altus OK ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 1996
Subject: METAR/TAF training materials
From: inet(at)intellisys.net (brian whatcott)
>From July 1st, US civil aviation sources converted surface observations and terminal forecasts to the ICAO METAR and TAF formats which other ICAO signatories have been using for some time. The FAA has produced an 8-page pocket guide as pub num FAA/ASY-20 96/001 You can call 202-267-7770 or FAX 202-366-7083 for a copy. The FAA homepage has a pointer to the Nat Weather Service METAR/TAF info on its homepage: http://www.faa.gov/osite.htm#weather The NWS homepage has useful pointers to other FAA resources on its homepage: http://www.nws.noaa.gov/oso/oso1/oso12/metar.htm ref:USAF unclassified briefing materials. brian Altus OK ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 1996
From: Brian McShurley <bmcshurley(at)www.sfgate.com>
Subject: Re: Rotary conversion
Tom Sargent wrote: > >Snip > > Does any one know about the rotaries' vibration characteristics? > > --- > Tom Sargent, Tucson, AZ, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com It is my understanding that rotaries resemble turbines in vibration. Since there are no reciprocating parts, they are considerably smoother. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 1996
From: Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com>
Subject: misc. stuff
> You wrote: >While attendind the Builders Seminar in February, Ken Scott and Phil > ??? >specifically recommended the buzz-type scribes for identification of > parts; >the advantage is the marks are visible after priming. To put this in >perspective, Ken identified a 'scratch' as something your fingernail >actually stopped in, not a surface mark. > Please read an RV construction manual. Van specifically mentions > someone using a scribe to mark aluminum as not acceptable. > > Finn > > finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com Come on you guys nobody is recommnding scribeing skins etc. I would not worry about the scribe marks Van's put on the parts I don't know of anywhere else that needs to buzz scribed, use your sharpie pen to mark parts if need be it won't hurt to prime over these marks or cut,fit,clean and then prime. If you want to mark parts after you prime for ID. that is alright also internal parts can have the marks left on, the point being there is a lot of combinations and they all work. I see way to much worrying going on here on the list, just do what it takes to get the job done using resonable care and common sense. On the subject of primers pick a primer,any primer, and use it on the internal parts, if you are going to have a shop paint your plane don't prime the outside as they may want to use their own system, if you are going to paint your own airplane use a primer that is compatable with the paint you will be using. On the subject of alternators, 7 years ago I bought a Chevy Sprint alternator from a wrecking yard for $45.00 with internal regulator, no problems, charges at 14.2 volts and is small enough to fit cowling. (made my own mount out of solid block of alum. with the help of a machine shop with a verical mill.) More flying and building and less worrying. -- Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) (Hillsboro, OR) jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ wow 7 years flying already ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 18, 1996
From: Kam Yuk CHENG <kamy(at)uniwa.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: add onto the Builder's List for latest news
We are currently building a RV-6A in Mechanical Engineering Dept. of the University of Western Australia. Please add us onto the news circulation. I am the contact person. Kamy Mech. & Mats. Eng. Dept. University of Western Australia Australia ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 1996
From: bfeaver(at)cpnet.net (Bruce Feaver)
Subject: Re: Repeat / update of Oshkosh List
> >You wrote: >> >>Hi Folks >> >>This is an updated table from the original post a few weeks ago - last > >>chance to get in on it - I'll post the final list next weekend... >>(SNIP)... >> >>>Anyway, I thought it would be neat to see who will be there from the >>>List - so I made up this Table - add your info after mine if you are >>>going to OSH, and then send it to me. I'll collate the info and >>>repost just before OSH. Then we can all print a copy for our pockets >>>and take it along. Should help us to know who to be looking out for!! > >>>If you are taking some inferior mode of transportation - i.e. not an >>>RV, :)- still let me know the other info please. >>>Regards >>>Rob Lee >> >> N # |TYPE| COLORS | NAME | E-MAIL |ARRIVING >>-------------------------------------------------------------------- >>N517RL| 6A |Dk. Green/Gray |Rob Lee |av8r(at)hic.net | 30th >>N517RL| 6A |Dk. Green/Gray |Greg Bordelon|greg(at)brokersys.com| 30th >> | | |Joe Lewis|lewisjw(at)hqsocom.af.mil| 31st >>N47RV | 3 |Maroon Silver |Jim Ayers |LesDrag(at)aol.com | 31st >>N141CC|RV4 |White/Red|Cliff Carpenter|ccarpent(at)pressenter.com|31st >>XJ60LJ|Gray motor bike |Mike Nellis|76430.2670(at)compuserve.com|2nd >>N77597|J-3 |Red/white |Michael Kosta |mikel(at)dimensional.com|25th >>N622DK|Sonerai|Blue & white|Danny Kight |kightdm(at)carol.net | 31st >>N666RV| 6A |Blue/Yel(Van's|Jeremy Benedict|jbenedic(at)uofport.edu|29 >>Driving | |Steve Johnson |spjohnson(at)mmm.com | 3rd >>sn24751|6A |under contruc |Brian Yablon |brian(at)lanart.com | 31st >>Winnebego| Wht/Blu |Eric Barnes|Barnes_eric(at)tandem.com| 30th >>N252CM|HR2 |silver/black | Mark Frederick| mlfred(at)aol.com | 30th >>auto | | |Joe Larson |jpl(at)showpg.mn.org | 1st >>SIS314 |Tan Saturn wgn |Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com|1st >> " | " | Sis Costello | " | 1st >>N90AV|Citabria|Blue/Yellow/White|Greg Young|gyoung(at)net1.net |30th >> >>Rob - av8r(at)hic.net >> >add me to the list > >blue Chevy wagon Steve Mayer mayer(at)bose.com 1st > > Add me to the list Auto, |to be determined| Bruce Feaver | bfeaver(at)cpnet.net |3rd | ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 1996
From: Brian McShurley <bmcshurley(at)www.sfgate.com>
Subject: Re: Repeat / update of Oshkosh List
Bruce Feaver wrote: > > > > >You wrote: > >> > >>Hi Folks > >> > >>This is an updated table from the original post a few weeks ago - last > > > >>chance to get in on it - I'll post the final list next weekend... > >>(SNIP)... > >> > >>>Anyway, I thought it would be neat to see who will be there from the > >>>List - so I made up this Table - add your info after mine if you are > >>>going to OSH, and then send it to me. I'll collate the info and > >>>repost just before OSH. Then we can all print a copy for our pockets > >>>and take it along. Should help us to know who to be looking out for!! > > > >>>If you are taking some inferior mode of transportation - i.e. not an > >>>RV, :)- still let me know the other info please. > >>>Regards > >>>Rob Lee > >> > >> N # |TYPE| COLORS | NAME | E-MAIL |ARRIVING > >>-------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>N517RL| 6A |Dk. Green/Gray |Rob Lee |av8r(at)hic.net | 30th > >>N517RL| 6A |Dk. Green/Gray |Greg Bordelon|greg(at)brokersys.com| 30th > >> | | |Joe Lewis|lewisjw(at)hqsocom.af.mil| 31st > >>N47RV | 3 |Maroon Silver |Jim Ayers |LesDrag(at)aol.com | 31st > >>N141CC|RV4 |White/Red|Cliff Carpenter|ccarpent(at)pressenter.com|31st > >>XJ60LJ|Gray motor bike |Mike Nellis|76430.2670(at)compuserve.com|2nd > >>N77597|J-3 |Red/white |Michael Kosta |mikel(at)dimensional.com|25th > >>N622DK|Sonerai|Blue & white|Danny Kight |kightdm(at)carol.net | 31st > >>N666RV| 6A |Blue/Yel(Van's|Jeremy Benedict|jbenedic(at)uofport.edu|29 > >>Driving | |Steve Johnson |spjohnson(at)mmm.com | 3rd > >>sn24751|6A |under contruc |Brian Yablon |brian(at)lanart.com | 31st > >>Winnebego| Wht/Blu |Eric Barnes|Barnes_eric(at)tandem.com| 30th > >>N252CM|HR2 |silver/black | Mark Frederick| mlfred(at)aol.com | 30th > >>auto | | |Joe Larson |jpl(at)showpg.mn.org | 1st > >>SIS314 |Tan Saturn wgn |Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com|1st > >> " | " | Sis Costello | " | 1st > >>N90AV|Citabria|Blue/Yellow/White|Greg Young|gyoung(at)net1.net |30th > >> > >>Rob - av8r(at)hic.net > >> > >add me to the list > > > >blue Chevy wagon Steve Mayer mayer(at)bose.com 1st > > > > > > Add me to the list > > Auto, |to be determined| Bruce Feaver | bfeaver(at)cpnet.net |3rd | Add me to the list B767,A310,Hertz car Brian McShurley bmcshurley(at)sfgate.com 30th ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jul 17, 1996
Subject: Re: Repeat/update of Oshkosh List (ack!)
At the risk of adding the text below to the archive file *AGAIN*(!), I would ask everyone on the List to mail Rob directly on this issue. Remember, *every* message you post to the RV-List is appended to the 23MB raw archive file! Thanks, Matt Dralle RV-List Admin. >-------------- >(15 other rv-listers) wrote: >> >> > >> >You wrote: >> >> >> >>Hi Folks >> >> >> >>This is an updated table from the original post a few weeks ago - last >> > >> >>chance to get in on it - I'll post the final list next weekend... >> >>(SNIP)... >> >> >> >>>Anyway, I thought it would be neat to see who will be there from the >> >>>List - so I made up this Table - add your info after mine if you are >> >>>going to OSH, and then send it to me. I'll collate the info and >> >>>repost just before OSH. Then we can all print a copy for our pockets >> >>>and take it along. Should help us to know who to be looking out for!! >> > >> >>>If you are taking some inferior mode of transportation - i.e. not an >> >>>RV, :)- still let me know the other info please. >> >>>Regards >> >>>Rob Lee >> >> >> >> N # |TYPE| COLORS | NAME | E-MAIL |ARRIVING >> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>N517RL| 6A |Dk. Green/Gray |Rob Lee |av8r(at)hic.net | 30th >> >>N517RL| 6A |Dk. Green/Gray |Greg Bordelon|greg(at)brokersys.com| 30th >> >> | | |Joe Lewis|lewisjw(at)hqsocom.af.mil| 31st >> >>N47RV | 3 |Maroon Silver |Jim Ayers |LesDrag(at)aol.com | 31st >> >>N141CC|RV4 |White/Red|Cliff Carpenter|ccarpent(at)pressenter.com|31st >> >>XJ60LJ|Gray motor bike |Mike Nellis|76430.2670(at)compuserve.com|2nd >> >>N77597|J-3 |Red/white |Michael Kosta |mikel(at)dimensional.com|25th >> >>N622DK|Sonerai|Blue & white|Danny Kight |kightdm(at)carol.net | 31st >> >>N666RV| 6A |Blue/Yel(Van's|Jeremy Benedict|jbenedic(at)uofport.edu|29 >> >>Driving | |Steve Johnson |spjohnson(at)mmm.com | 3rd >> >>sn24751|6A |under contruc |Brian Yablon |brian(at)lanart.com | 31st >> >>Winnebego| Wht/Blu |Eric Barnes|Barnes_eric(at)tandem.com| 30th >> >>N252CM|HR2 |silver/black | Mark Frederick| mlfred(at)aol.com | 30th >> >>auto | | |Joe Larson |jpl(at)showpg.mn.org | 1st >> >>SIS314 |Tan Saturn wgn |Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com|1st >> >> " | " | Sis Costello | " | 1st >> >>N90AV|Citabria|Blue/Yellow/White|Greg Young|gyoung(at)net1.net |30th >> >> >> >>Rob - av8r(at)hic.net >> >> >> >add me to the list >> > >> >blue Chevy wagon Steve Mayer mayer(at)bose.com 1st >> > >> > >> >> Add me to the list >> >> Auto, |to be determined| Bruce Feaver | bfeaver(at)cpnet.net |3rd | > >Add me to the list >B767,A310,Hertz car Brian McShurley bmcshurley(at)sfgate.com 30th >-------------- -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung(at)Net1.Net>
Subject: Re: Rotary conversion
Date: Jul 18, 1996
I'm an RX7 owner so can offer a few comments. The rotary is Smoooooth. It's not pure axial rotation like a turbine since there is a triangular rotor wobbling around on an eccentric drive gear, but it puts pistons to shame. I'm kind of surprised that Powersport had to put so much effort into vibration control unless it's due to the PSRU. I'm most concerned about the PSRU, not the engine. The engine will wrap up to the red line of 8000 rpm without a problem and I routinely power shift at 7000. You get used to the RPMs. BTW the red line is a transmission limit, not the engine. Rumor has it they put an engine (sans transmission) on a test stand and turned it to 30,000 rpm without a problem. The RX7 is being discontinued after 1996 but there is a possibility of another rotary powered model (non-sports car) being produced. I just went through a repair or replace decision on our car. It's an '83 and had a couple oil gaskets just rot away and leak oil like crazy. After looking at new cars, including the new RX7, I elected to replace the engine. IMHO there's just not anything out there for under $40K that gives the same feeling as the rotary. For a frame of reference on overhaul costs, the dealer's quote to install a Mazda overhauled engine (short block, if you can use that term for a rotary?!?) was $2700 (parts and labor). I'm expecting an RV with a rotary will be a magical combination. I hope Powersport or one of the others can prove the rotary by the time I need to commit to an engine. -- Greg Young gyoung(at)net1.net Citabria N90AV RV-6 s/n 23070 - starting wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 18, 1996
From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net>
Subject: Re: misc. stuff
Finn wrote: > Please read an RV construction manual. Van specifically mentions > someone using a scribe to mark aluminum as not acceptable. The reason being, it will remove alclad. If you are going to prime, don't worry about it. Surface scratches are not so important; look at any plane that has been flying for awhile, and see that it has picked up it's share. Stress cracks generally start from an edge, so if the edges are smooth, don't worry too much about the rest. If you wish to scribe parts, keep it as shallow as possible; common sense, eh? And if you are wanting to make something permanently visible, try adding a non-structural plate engraved with the info instead. Someplace out of the way, of course. PatK - RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 18, 1996
From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net>
Subject: Re: add onto the Builder's List for latest news
Kam Yuk CHENG wrote: > > We are currently building a RV-6A in Mechanical Engineering Dept. of the > University of Western Australia. Good luck to you. Could you use another student? PatK - RV-6A - Left wing in process ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 18, 1996
From: jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com (Michael McGee)
Subject: Rotary conversion
> >Does any one know about the rotaries' vibration characteristics? > >--- >Tom Sargent, Tucson, AZ, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com > Almost turbine smooth, far less vibration than the four banger Lyc. Mike sn 23530 (gets a rotary on the other end of the project) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Maynard, Bryon" <maynardb(at)snowmass.ksc.nasa.gov>
Subject: RV around the world
Date: Jul 18, 1996
I am looking for information about the individual that is flying around the world in an RV. Is there anyway to contact him before he arrives in Florida. About what date is this to be. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 18, 1996
Subject: Re: misc. stuff (please read)
<< More flying and building and less worrying. -- Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) (Hillsboro, OR) >> Feels good to vent every now and then, doesn't it Jerry. I agree, people tend to worry alot about nothing. But I must confess that I was like this when I first started building my RV. A few local builders were very patient with my questions - thank goodness. There was no RV-list(at)matronic.com back then. That's what this list is all about. The newbies ask WILD questions because they believe everything that they hear. It's up to us "experienced hands" to help 'em out. I too go nuts every now and then from all of the BS that I read. Sometimes you read a question and think "how stupid is this person" only to find out that it becomes a "thred" with 100 responses. Maybe it wasn't so stuip if the newbies now know the truth about the stupid question. I think that 99 percent of the people building an RV know nothing about building an aircraft when they start. It's only natural to worry about everything because you know (hope) that one day you're goin' to strap yourself into this hunk of aluminim and fly. It's and awesome responsibility. Hopefully, by the time you get through the wing kit you have learned how to filter out all of the BS you hear. Some people never learn this important building skill and these are the people that end up selling the project or just never finish it (IMO). They just can't enjoy the building experience. Others are just SO anal that they are going to worry no matter what (and they like it that way). Can't help 'em...no way. Anyway, I'm here to help, and so is Jerry. But I think it's the responsibility of builder/flyers like Jerry, Rob, Rusty, me and about 20 others on this list to let the builders know when something does in fact set-off the BS alarm. We shouldn't worry that we might hurt someone's feeling - but we shouldn't attack them either. Good information is hard to come by when you are locked-up in your garage for 2000 + hours of your life. That's why this list is such a powerfull building tool. They day I feel that I can't contribute to the list I will just unsubscribe, thank you very much. It does feel good to vent every now and then! Keep the questions comming. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 18, 1996
From: "Gene Gottschalk ((301) 286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: RV around the world
Maynard, The gentelman's name is Jon Johanson. Check out URL: http://saaa.nasma.com/jonjoh/updat-01.htm to see more. Gene Gottschalk geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov >I am looking for information about the individual that is flying around >the world in an RV. Is there anyway to contact him before he arrives in >Florida. About what date is this to be. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mailman(at)baldcom.net
Date: Jul 18, 1996
Subject: Fuslage jig rv4
rv4 fuslage jig for sale.. made of hard wood screwed together..very well made... I have seen it... for sale for cost of materials only... you pick him you got the info off the internet from Judd.. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 18, 1996
From: Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net>
Subject: Re: misc. stuff (please read)
(at)matronics.com:RV6junkie(at)aol.com wrote: > > > << More flying and building and less worrying. > > -- > Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) (Hillsboro, OR) > >> > > Feels good to vent every now and then, doesn't it Jerry. > > I agree, people tend to worry alot about nothing. But I must confess that I > was like this when I first started building my RV. A few local builders were > very patient with my questions - thank goodness. There was no > RV-list(at)matronic.com back then. That's what this list is all about. The > newbies ask WILD questions because they believe everything that they hear. > It's up to us "experienced hands" to help 'em out. > > I too go nuts every now and then from all of the BS that I read. Sometimes > you read a question and think "how stupid is this person" only to find out > that it becomes a "thred" with 100 responses. Maybe it wasn't so stuip if > the newbies now know the truth about the stupid question. > > I think that 99 percent of the people building an RV know nothing about > building an aircraft when they start. It's only natural to worry about > everything because you know (hope) that one day you're goin' to strap > yourself into this hunk of aluminim and fly. It's and awesome > responsibility. > > Hopefully, by the time you get through the wing kit you have learned how to > filter out all of the BS you hear. Some people never learn this important > building skill and these are the people that end up selling the project or > just never finish it (IMO). They just can't enjoy the building experience. > Others are just SO anal that they are going to worry no matter what (and they > like it that way). Can't help 'em...no way. > > Anyway, I'm here to help, and so is Jerry. But I think it's the > responsibility of builder/flyers like Jerry, Rob, Rusty, me and about 20 > others on this list to let the builders know when something does in fact > set-off the BS alarm. We shouldn't worry that we might hurt someone's > feeling - but we shouldn't attack them either. Good information is hard to > come by when you are locked-up in your garage for 2000 + hours of your life. > That's why this list is such a powerfull building tool. They day I feel > that I can't contribute to the list I will just unsubscribe, thank you very > much. > > It does feel good to vent every now and then! > > Keep the questions comming. > > Gary Corde > RV-6 N211GCGary-- Thanks for sticking up for us "newbies!" And you're right...most of us have never built anything like an airplane. Gee whiz...I drill holes all day long, but never in aluminum! I always thought a "bucking bar" was one of those hillbilly bars that had one of those bronco machines! Yeah, I'm a nugget. I do appreciate all the help from you "old timers" out there, because I have no local builders' group to learn from. The only local is a guy who's not much farther ahead than I. Help us separate the wheat from the chaff. I sure could use the help!! --Don McNamara #80113 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 18, 1996
From: gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander)
Subject: Re: misc. stuff
*** Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS wrote *** > Come on you guys nobody is recommending scribing skins etc. I would not worry > about the scribe marks Van's put on the parts I don't know of > anywhere else that needs to buzz scribed, use your sharpie pen to mark > parts if need be it won't hurt to prime over these marks > or cut,fit,clean and then prime. If you want to mark parts after you prime > for ID. That is alright also internal parts can have the marks left on, the > point being there is a lot of combinations and they all work. > Jerry, ... there is an issue here that does need to be addressed. If you do acid etch and alodine, then marks you put on the parts will usually get removed. With such items as wing ribs, this could lead to disastrous attempts to rivet the wrong part into a particular location (it did happen locally, leading to a scrapped wing LE section. The error showed up as skin ripples after the entire section was riveted). If you are a careful worker, and keep your rivet spacing etc. quite accurate, then you will find that parts will (well almost will) fit into other locations. If you locate your rivet holes by eyeball only, then this will be less of a problem ... :^) I first tried hanging all my parts to be primered, and labelling the hanger wires .... this was a pain in the a%&! I soon found priming was much easier using the Bingelis screen door method and AKZO/Dexter primer ... but no more wires to label. I then bought 1/8 die stamps (about $12 from Harbor Freight) and now ID all of my parts before I clean them and etch/prime them. The Avery Flush Riveting Plate makes an excellent surface to stamp parts on. If you stamp in the center of large flat areas, well away from the edges, then no critical stress risers will be created. The pictures in my RV6 construction manual even show this done to some of the wing ribs. If your cleaning process does not remove the Sharpie pen marks, then I doubt that you are cleaning the aluminum properly. Even DuPont recommends an etch/alodine process under VeriPrime when it is used on aircraft, and the other self-etch primers should have a solvent wipe/clean before use since they ALL call for a grease/oil-free surface. So just stamp those parts and then you won't lose track of which part is which during any cleaning/etching/priming processes. Of course, if you don't bother priming, then just leave the Sharpie pen marks on .... :^) .... I don't want to re-open the to prime or not to prime discusion again!! ..... Gil (the stamper) Alexander RV6A, #20701 gil(at)rassp.hac.com *** snip *** > Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 18, 1996
From: "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov>
Subject: ID die stamps
REGARDING ID die stamps Gil (the stamper) Alexander says " I then bought 1/8 die stamps (about $12 from Harbor Freight) and now ID all of my parts before I clean them and etch/prime them. ____________________ Some very cautious builders might worry about the die creating a sharp "v" mark in the material. The nuclear industry did trace a failure to a die-stamped part-number few years ago. After that I saw a series of hand marking dies advertised that had a modified marking surface. Instead of the traditional, sharp marking character on the die the character was created by a series of tiny balls (beads or hemi-spheres?). Think of it as a series of micro-miniature balls lined up to make a "one" instead of a sharp "v" shaped line. It was an intriguing idea. The effect was the same as ball-peening in the character you wanted. "Peening is a GOOD thing for durability because it compress the surface layer, discourages the growth of cracks and because the mark or impression is radiused it will distribute the concentration of stress. Sorry I have no brand or source information but you might ask your local tool supplier about them. I think they are still made. Good idea for the aviation supply houses to look into. -Elon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: frankv(at)pec.co.nz
Date: Jul 19, 1996
Subject: Re: misc. stuff (please read) Plus: YASQ: How plumb does the
jig need to be? I think this whole thread highlights something about the Construction Manual (and newbie builders, I guess). Oftentimes, the manual says things like "clean up the file marks" which is interpreted by us as "clean up the scratches" and "clean up *all* the scratches". BTW, to try to provide answers to these types of questions without tying up the list, I've put together a WWW page of my "discoveries". I welcome information about assembling the HS (guess what I'm about to do!) or any other topic which could be added to the page. Those interested are invited to point their browsers at http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/bunny.htm >> Keep the questions comming. OK... Yet Another Stupid Question that I've been worrying about... Just how *exactly* plumb and level does the jig need to be? I mean, it's impossible to make it absolutely level... how much error is acceptable? As good as my carpenter's level can show it? Is an eighth of an inch difference in height over the length of the beam OK? A sixteenth? A 32nd? I've read about people using a water hose to level it... is that better than a good carpenter's level? And if it needs to be that precise, how do you get the uprights *exactly* vertical? -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass; Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read". PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!" http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ | -------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 18, 1996
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: misc. stuff
I use an engraving tool before priming to _lightly_ mark parts that might be difficult to identify afterwards. I do it away from the edges or holes and am not worried in the least that there will be any "stress cracks" as a result. Time will tell though. When I think of scribing I think of someone putting a straightedge against the part and running a knife down it to mark a line, e.g. for measurement purposes. I think that's what Van's is talking about when they say not to do it in the manual, and I sure hope no one's doing THAT.... Randall Henderson, RV-6 Editor, Home Wing Newsletter http://www.edt.com/homewing randall(at)edt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BPattonsoa(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 18, 1996
Subject: Re: ID die stamps
If you understand something about the flow of forces in a structure, you can almost always see a place where there will be insignificiant or no load. Put your stamp there. (In a perfect design, these don't exist, but it has not been done yet) Examples: 1. On any angle, even when you trim the flanges back 45 degrees, the top near the end has no loads 2. Flanges, anywhere after the last rivet hole can't get any loads. 3. Flat plates, near the corners are unloaded. 4. Anyplace outside of the rivet lines (but don't notch the edge) Another way to solve the problem is the "Wild Rivet".. For example on the nearly identical angles in the famous "smoking rivet" floorplate on -6s, I ganged drilled the angles and then drilled them into the skin. But for each angle, I drilled another hole, in an almost random location that clearly identified each part. Bruce Patton -6A N596S reserved (My glider is N5596S, competition number 96 Sierra) Working on sliding canopy frame ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 18, 1996
From: "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov>
Subject: Low Stress ID Die Stamps
REGARDING Low Stress ID Die Stamps I found them. Here is the description from one of my catalogs "LOW STRESS ROUND FACE AND DOT DESIGN STEEL DIES. These special tools have rounded characters that produce low stress on surfaces receiving their impression. These are government accepted where low stress is a requirement. Also available is dot design characters..." My catalog is Mechanics Tool & Supply Co. 510/568-6060. My catalog is old (1983). However, any good tool supplier in your area should be able to get them. If you are going to be around airplanes you might as well get these kind, they are far superior to the hardware store variety. -Elon ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Engraving Parts, Etc.
Date: Jul 18, 1996
From: Jack Abell <abell(at)rand.org>
Engraving parts is a really neat idea. Steve Barnard does it on the parts in his quick-build assembly, i.e., his modified wing kit. It was great after I acid-etched, alodyned, and primed to still be able to see the part numbers. Engraving is not a problem in terms of stress buildup as long as the etching is kept near the neutral axis of the part. For example, I would not etch on a spar flange, but it would be okay on the center of the spar web. Shallow scratches in alclad material aren't especially troublesome in any event simply because the pure aluminum on the outside of the part is so soft it carries virtually none of the load of the part. By "shallow" I mean that the scratch doesn't go through the pure aluminum into the alloy because then the scratch is dangerous from a corrosion point of view as well as from stress buildup. An engraving tool would have been a very helpful thing to have earlier in my project. There's too little structural work left to justify it for me, but if I were just starting on my empennage I'd be on my way to the hardware store. I'd keep the stroke quite shallow and perhaps use a needle that is slightly dulled (rounded) at the tip. Jack Abell RV-6A N333JA (Reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Cecil Hatfield / Fourstar Printing <cecil(at)alto1.altonet.com>
Date: Jul 18, 1996
Subject: Re: misc. stuff (please read) Plus: YASQ: How plumb does the
jig need to be? Frank, you can go cut two young trees, trim the branches back to aout 3 inch stubs, bring them into your shop, fasten them very sturdy (you can even leave them lean 15 degrees as if they were in a windstorm. This would suffice as a jig for your wings. That said, be certin that however you decide to mount your spars, that they end up sturdy, plumb and level. Hang your plumb lines for the rear spar and constantly refer to them before you do any fitting, drilling or riveting. IMO you will make nice wings. This would go for other parts of your project too. If you use green wood, s'ok, just follow your two plumb lines and constantly refer to them before you do any fitting, drilling or riveting. This clues you in for possible warping as the wood drys. =================================================================== OK... Yet Another Stupid Question that I've been worrying about... Just how *exactly* plumb and level does the jig need to be? I mean, it's impossible to make it absolutely level... how much error is acceptable? As good as my carpenter's level can show it? Is an eighth of an inch difference in height over the length of the beam OK? A sixteenth? A 32nd? I've read about people using a water hose to level it... is that better than a good carpenter's level? And if it needs to be that precise, how do you get the uprights *exactly* vertical? -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass; Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read". PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!" http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ | -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- E-mail: cecil Date: 07/18/96 Time: 17:28:03 This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 18, 1996
Subject: Manifold pressure
What happens if your manifold pressure line (assuming copper) breaks? Does it just cause a small air leak into the cylinder? If this is the case, then would your EGT gauge read higher due to a leaner mixture? Could this situation be controlled until a new line is fabricated? I don't really want to run hoses for the manifold pressure and primer lines, so I was curious how big a deal it might be if one of those copper lines were to break. I was planning on using #2 aluminum fittings for the cylinders which have a hole of about .060. Would it be better to use steel fittings with the hole soldered up and a smaller hole (say .040)? Or would this restrict the flow of fuel through the primer ports too much? Or am I just being over-protective? Ed Bundy ebundy2620(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 18, 1996
From: dcahoon(at)intellinet.com (David Cahoon)
Subject: Re: Clear Rudder tip
Strobe at the top of the vert fin is not a good idea. The flash at night is very distracting. I have flown in an RV-4 with such an arrangement and it is not good. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: misc. stuff (please read)
Date: Jul 18, 1996
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB74FB.7DCE3560 Gary, For what is worth, I have a hard copy of a message that you sent Friday, = May 03, 1996 at 3:07PM about N211GC. Your last line was "Dream it, = Build it, Fly it. It is an awsome sense of satifaction. There is no = substitute!" I plan on making a large copy of that quote (Attributing it = to you, of coarse) and hanging it on my shop wall when I start on my = empenage in October. So you experienced guys keep posting and giving us = some much appreciated guidance. (Yea, Plato or Socretes almost came = close to a quote like that!) Al prober(at)iwaynet.net RV-6 Emp still stored... N162NV Res. ---------- From: = aol.com!RV6junkie(at)matronics.com[SMTP:aol.com!RV6junkie(at)matronics.com] Sent: Thursday, July 18, 1996 10:43 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: misc. stuff (please read) Feels good to vent every now and then, doesn't it Jerry. I agree, people tend to worry alot about nothing. But I must confess = that I was like this when I first started building my RV. A few local builders = were very patient with my questions - thank goodness. There was no RV-list(at)matronic.com back then. That's what this list is all about. = The newbies ask WILD questions because they believe everything that they = hear. It's up to us "experienced hands" to help 'em out.=20 I too go nuts every now and then from all of the BS that I read. = Sometimes you read a question and think "how stupid is this person" only to find = out that it becomes a "thred" with 100 responses. Maybe it wasn't so stuip = if the newbies now know the truth about the stupid question. I think that 99 percent of the people building an RV know nothing about building an aircraft when they start. It's only natural to worry about everything because you know (hope) that one day you're goin' to strap yourself into this hunk of aluminim and fly. It's and awesome responsibility. Hopefully, by the time you get through the wing kit you have learned how = to filter out all of the BS you hear. Some people never learn this = important building skill and these are the people that end up selling the project = or just never finish it (IMO). They just can't enjoy the building = experience. Others are just SO anal that they are going to worry no matter what (and = they like it that way). Can't help 'em...no way. Anyway, I'm here to help, and so is Jerry. But I think it's the responsibility of builder/flyers like Jerry, Rob, Rusty, me and about 20 others on this list to let the builders know when something does in fact set-off the BS alarm. We shouldn't worry that we might hurt someone's feeling - but we shouldn't attack them either. Good information is hard = to come by when you are locked-up in your garage for 2000 + hours of your = life. That's why this list is such a powerfull building tool. They day I = feel that I can't contribute to the list I will just unsubscribe, thank you = very much. It does feel good to vent every now and then! Keep the questions comming. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB74FB.7DCE3560 eJ8+IhECAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ACQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAEkAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20AU01UUABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20A AAAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABYAAABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20A AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAYAAAAJ3J2LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbScAAgEL MAEAAAAbAAAAU01UUDpSVi1MSVNUQE1BVFJPTklDUy5DT00AAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYP AQAAAAQAAAAAAAADNDcBCIAHABgAAABJUE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90ZQAxCAEEgAEAJwAA AFJFOiBSVi1MaXN0OiBtaXNjLiBzdHVmZiAocGxlYXNlIHJlYWQpAIUMAQWAAwAOAAAAzAcHABIA FQAGAAcABAASAQEggAMADgAAAMwHBwASABQANgALAAQARQEBCYABACEAAABDODQ1QkY1NkQ3RTBD RjExOEQyQTQ0NDU1MzU0MDAwMAADBwEDkAYAPAoAABIAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAA AAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQAAzU13DnW7AR4AcAABAAAAJwAAAFJFOiBSVi1MaXN0OiBtaXNjLiBzdHVm ZiAocGxlYXNlIHJlYWQpAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABu3UOd0ZWv0XJ4NcRz40qREVTVAAAAAAeAB4M AQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAEwAAAHByb2JlckBpd2F5bmV0Lm5ldAAAAwAGEHGZ5fwD AAcQIAkAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAEdBUlksRk9SV0hBVElTV09SVEgsSUhBVkVBSEFSRENPUFlPRkFN RVNTQUdFVEhBVFlPVVNFTlRGUklEQVksTUFZMDMsMTk5NkFUMzowN1BNQUJPVVROMjExR0NZT1VS TEFTVEwAAAAAAgEJEAEAAACxCAAArQgAAD4PAABMWkZ1wiKFav8ACgEPAhUCqAXrAoMAUALyCQIA Y2gKwHNldDI3BgAGwwKDMgPFAgBwckJxEeJzdGVtAoMzdwLkBxMCgH0KgAjPCdk78RYPMjU1AoAK gQ2xC2DgbmcxMDMUUAsKFFElC/JjAEAgRwrAeSzrCoUKhUYFsXcRgAVABACDHFAVsWgsIEkgEYCw dmUgYR1hCyAgBaBgcHkgb2YdsQeBc1xhZx2gHRAcgXkIYCDPEbACMBwQBRBkYRsgBdANIHAgGUAd MDE5OTYDHbAFQDM6MDdQTQsdsAbgdQVATjIxMUBHQy4gIFkIYSBfC2ATwCNQC4AdoHcjcCCkIkQW EGFtHKB0HTCcQnUDEB4QJLJGbB5gGySwIuBJHJMDkWF3c78DcB2gH+ERsB5yHwB0BpDPANAnwAIg IuBUaASQHaDJHLFubx/QdWITwCSw8SJQZSEiHUELUQOgAiBpHsBhawuAZx2xC2ByRx8hHjYfU3F1 bxPQIOwoQQJABRBiIlAq0iSwfx9AKRAfoR0wHoEFoBGSKX8mYR4QEYAZEC1VKnIeYHP2aB5AI/Fs AyAcYAnwHUHvE8AKwC/GE+BwCfAfEguAZCBPKABvYgSQIuBTmy3TMgB4MjAIgW5jCYDIIGd1E7Ag awngMHC8cG8pYSriLwEvYHYq0mZ1BCAmw211EXAdsHD/E1AFkAcwE9A0ciBRNEEi4ewoWSRwHTBQ C2AtwQWxfzNgBQARwAeRB0AEYCOBY/8kgCtxFaAnQS3BHcAsZCOwkzTgH0MhKRtMQWwKhdMTUDMC QGkkAHkj0CXgoz7BCoVSVi0hYEUyIL8xQQMQAyATwAWwCYAuQPDBB7AxNjJOVgfwB5COLhtMCvQj sDE4MALR4GktMTQ0DfAM0EPDPwtZQUAKoANgE9AoACAtf0XnCodEmwwwRWYgMANwOl9G7kVmDIId sAbwLgWgbUIhP6A2anVuKsBlzkAAwCzwAiBpY0HASuHAW1NNVFA6Sq9LvP5dRo9HnQZgAjBIz0nb KHDlCHBzIGNKdSWhQ0AhFdEZMDo0MxSwTU7/R52MVG9RP0nbcnYtI7DfE8BLvFUfUA4pQGpFoVc/ b0nbQaBc0D+hTFlRXNBt7QQAYyLgE8B1DdAssAtQNyRwJ0EkYWQ8nULGMzZfRGcaRUVmG00J4GwE IGfebwRwLbIdkCABZR2QGxA/KPEH4C7yHRAJ8B0wZG/ZB5BuJxyRBUBKBJAbEP9B3R1QHxAJ0R0w MjAeQGBg/x9ACfBlgxzhZlEHQCyAIhX/KQAdECrRIuAk8AVAHVA24Ns6YgIgZh7hH0RJCoUkAv87 9RyyMPRDkBGgBUAxUzRhvy0gJREq0jARP6Ai4UFvsP8H0RWgOpADIHCjBJAcwSiR/wqFZjMKsCfA H/ID8B0QMALvLGAHkCgSBCAtH0JNwGVD/yPQBBAoViQCKQA/OFlLTSJ/cJAA0HYAZwIi4ShwHIAn /28yHIFvA1lCJjMwsSIjedOzczYj0HdiCJAmUXN2APBXSUxEdPkzEDqQNmD9HzJlHmAzECOwZiFm FGwDfx9EfyMogArAQdYmAXpBdTcwcC3BNmEiM9ovMWRz1yngLcEogGwwcCcT4B5w/3wCaH4twCkQ ZVAo8CJQBCC/Zi8DoANSe4Mr4x2gQgXw/22kYLMzQgeAJ8AHgQqFH6K/YMI7Y3UkZrULgHYAIjBQ +wfgX+FwIFAcom8DM/EmwP5uKeACICWhLcFDkC8BIkH/CoUfUy2RfqEm0SZRJDAdEK8WESngdIMZ MDBgsXM1MP8nMXaRIKIzEC2CJAFnoibA91/SBSAcoGaP1x2gfPZmgv5rZoKI8izwIlA3ESIziPL/ jWV1BmhvjLQfUyFAjkI0UP8gAYjFaeVwpwORP6CWRGvlnyIUCoWcKgtwmuByYQGA/zDUfyMxUyLh ghOO0zJQKZD/n6ADIGqonfl/+X6mH6KWU/4oMFEuwR9TAiAdoCBhH5LuJyihZVALgCctshPAn6D2 cIrIEaFsHpALgC3BbwP/UyB18R6CCkBfgAMAiGEvAf8Y4GhQgfUu8iagB5Am0QqFX5J1LRADECSw aF5IpWFm91PAJaAdMGKPAZayB3Efk+cfIHqiA2B1ZzcQiPID8P8q4SrAH4Qdc2BhBKCDkpZy+3d2 Q5BsE9AFwCJCiIyxo/+BUiLwijJp1iPQhxGyJG70/wdwNTAAIABwni99gEBSZsX/J0EKwH8Dadcc cmpigmGogf8jsYCCm5EDYFySOVEKhU2gPyOBtoSPUQQANxAtkShJ+E1PKShTHmC9ozqQZ6J5CfBq b68kcKcz2EHWT89nAXLRuiK9o1NPJmGiAv+At7oipvKAgWq2KQFLwbOy9RxjKGbFeQqFO/Mtkhxy 8z6RvzEgQ8AThGZA8SkBYz6RQd1Bbnk+kR0xJ/8kkCiDhDUdMC7ylDEcsWgU/2xljLQksHpBZwGs L60yHnL9cnUvqsFywjvzaBMdMAgA/mLSoWzhIIEm4atzIjMB0P8KhWvxcsIqcXrILcFgYJeE/3J3 llMw4ybCgERnYjKSJ+L7CoURsS0egIjXB0AKwMoA/SLwVybxMFBTwHZQZ7Fq1PvIdDbBabCgyXEI cJQSB4D/pgF6QLMWZQEq0nWgLSHcsu/beMZBeVUkkGV0kTMiGuD/ZWILgAIQ2vAnsSpxqUId8v+y 95DirwIw4x+iuiJyETTg/GQtgmEyoahCNIAKwB8S9+IR1EGSQSuyoVMxHnLl4/8jsG1QgYd6B68i eukpMDcC/zUhcwGuonCYhkFNEHwzHmD/pkJvoWUBj9odUMAEbSEs9P87I4jyexMdUAPwMLG9o02w /ykyBQEzEB0wdcQfoocSCoV/NuKY3gVA2KPeomVPZl0h/RtMSzTyiPJ1CE0xqiFsQP8bTBryySAF sA2wPzoihBtMX2EfYi9jPwqyGIEAANAAAAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAQAAHMGDL3MwMdbsBQAAI MGDL3MwMdbsBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAABZiw== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB74FB.7DCE3560-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: Some guidance on RV-4 inspection
Date: Jul 18, 1996
Guys, I'm going to take a look at an RV-4 for Matt Fairy here in Columbus, = Ohio. The airframe was built by EAA Chap. 09 as a chapter project and = as I understand it, it is firewall back and nearly complete. (Can you = say RV-4 quickbuild kit?) Do any of you 4 builders have any advice on = what to look for in particular as far as details to inspect. I can tell = quality of workmanship pretty well but I'm not real sure of the = particular detail parts of a 4 to look at. The bottom skins of the wings = are not on yet and the wings are temp. fitted to the fuselage. No = engine, no inst.'s, tanks need to be plumbed etc.....etc..... I'm going = to video the aircraft and as much detail as possible and overnight it to = Matt. Thanks for any help here, Al prober(at)iwaynet.net RV-6 empenage in waiting N162NV Res. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 18, 1996
From: Byron Ward <award(at)tardis.svsu.edu>
Subject: Rotary conversion
I don't have any personal experiance, but from what I've heard rotaries have considerably less vibration because in a conventional engine you have the pistons switching direction umpteen times per minute, wheras in a rotary it never changes direction. On Wed, 17 Jul 1996, Tom Sargent wrote: > > I, too, am intrigued by the rotary engine (and astounded at Van's > semi-approval). But the article in Sport Aviation didn't address a question > that I've always had about these engines; do they vibrate a lot less than a > piston engine? (The article discussed only tortional vibration modes.) > > I think most people underrate the importance of vibration. The "RV4 tried > to kill me" note posted here a day or so ago was about a cracked exhaust > pipe that was almost certainly caused by vibration. It tires the pilot and > fatigues the whole airframe and engine. > > Does any one know about the rotaries' vibration characteristics? > > --- > Tom Sargent, Tucson, AZ, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 18, 1996
From: jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com (Michael McGee)
Subject: Re: Rotary conversion
> I'm kind of surprised that Powersport had to put so much effort >into vibration control unless it's due to the PSRU. I'm most concerned >about the PSRU, not the engine. The vibration they are refering to is TORSIONAL RESONANCE. Everet Hatch and Steve Beckham put on an excellent forum on the developement of their engine at Arlington last weekend. Some samples of broken parts that were very impresive demonstrated what can happen when you work with stuff outside of the parameters it was designed for. When you begin factoring in harmonics and resonant frequencies, 200 HP from engine A is not the same 200 HP from engine B and so on. That Powersport 200 they have developed as a firewall forward package is going to start showing up on a lot or RV's for the price they are asking. It does include the engine mount, cowl, starter, and alternator. Mike McGee sn23530 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 1996
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: misc. stuff
Alert !! Alert!!! What is the screen door technique to which you refer? Is this the answer to all those bits I hold with pliers and wave around until dry. I have a terrible feeling I've missed an important bit of information. Leo Davies Fitting interior to fuse and still struggling with priming those @!##$@% fiddly bits. snip > > I first tried hanging all my parts to be primered, and labelling >the hanger wires .... this was a pain in the a%&! I soon found priming was >much easier using the Bingelis screen door method and AKZO/Dexter primer >... but no more wires to label. > > ..... Gil (the stamper) Alexander > >RV6A, #20701 >gil(at)rassp.hac.com > > >*** snip *** > >> Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Jul 19, 1996
Subject: Re: RV-List:Water level for spar
> > >I've read about people using a water hose to level it... is that >better than a good carpenter's level? And if it needs to be that >precise, how do you get the uprights *exactly* vertical? > >-- Frank: I used a 1/4 inch clear tube about 20 feet long filled with water. Makes for a nice accurate cheap level. If you want to make it fancy put some food coloring in it and impress your friends. The uprights don't have to be vertical.....just level the spar supports after you get the upright as close as you can. Then drop the strings thru the spars like Van says. It will work......There's 1000 + flying to prove it....and you know all of us got it perfect, right? You will need a center support until you get some structure built on the wing so it will hold its own shape. Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 19, 1996
Subject: Re: rv-list: Sales Tax on Homebuilts
<< < I just finished talking to the man in charge of collecting taxes relating to aircraft/kits purchased and residing in the State of Florida. He says that you must pay a use tax of 6% against the kit price ( Van's approx.. $10,500) which means I pay around $600. Well there goes those extra features in the instrument panel. If you have >> Just the kit? What about the engine, instruments, etc? Ed Bundy >> Hey, I did the same, and the Tax Man was happy that I did. I gave him what he "expected" and he went away happy... Get the point? Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 1996
From: Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com>
Subject: Re: Clear Rudder tip
I've built two RV-4's with the stobe mounted in the vertical stab. It works great for me but I don't fly at night either. :-) Dan Boudro RV-4 N9167Z Albuquerque, NM dboudro(at)nmia.com On Thu, 18 Jul 1996, David Cahoon wrote: > Strobe at the top of the vert fin is not a good idea. The flash at night is > very distracting. I have flown in an RV-4 with such an arrangement and it is > not good. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 19, 1996
Subject: Re: misc. stuff (please read)
<> I'm 33 years old. I was 27 when I started. I'm a baby when you look at the rest of the population of aircraft builders. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 1996
From: "Gene Gottschalk ((301) 286-0708)" <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: misc. stuff (please read) Plus: YASQ: How plumb
does the jig need to be? Frank, I used the water level on both wing and fuselage jig, using about a 5/16 clear plastic hose. The water level is somewhat vague because of the capillary action in the tubing, so the be more accurate than 1/16 of an inch is difficult see. I'm not sure I can hold my construction to that tolerance anyway. I just try to make everything as level/plumb as I can, to the point of diminishing returns. -Gene Gottschalk, RV6a, Jigging fuselage geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov >OK... Yet Another Stupid Question that I've been worrying about... >Just how *exactly* plumb and level does the jig need to be? I mean, >it's impossible to make it absolutely level... how much error is >acceptable? As good as my carpenter's level can show it? Is an eighth >of an inch difference in height over the length of the beam OK? A >sixteenth? A 32nd? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 1996
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com>
Subject: Re: misc. stuff (please read)
><> > >I'm 33 years old. I was 27 when I started. I'm a baby when you look at the >rest of the population of aircraft builders. > >Gary Corde >RV-6 N211GC > > Beat you, beat you. This child started at 23, just turned 27. -Scott N506RV (installing all that good stuff firewall forward) scottg(at)villagenet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 1996
From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net>
Subject: Re: misc. stuff
Gil Alexander wrote: > If your cleaning process does not remove the Sharpie pen marks, > then I doubt that you are cleaning the aluminum properly. Even DuPont > recommends an etch/alodine process under VeriPrime when it is used on > aircraft, and the other self-etch primers should have a solvent wipe/clean > before use since they ALL call for a grease/oil-free surface. So just > stamp those parts and then you won't lose track of which part is which > during any cleaning/etching/priming processes. I just checked with my painter (had to pick up my parts anyway) and he said that it is not necessary to etch until all marks are gone. He contracts to several maintenance organizations repairing such things as cargo 727s, so I tend to trust his opinion. Grease and oil are quickly removed by etching; Sharpie ink takes a little longer. Then, if a light primer coat is given, the markings may still be visible. Even when my marks are gone, I can usually see the original grain markings on the skins. If not, I would suspect that too much primer is being used - you only want a corrosion barrier, not an opaque coat. Following the directions on the etching fluid I use for small parts, they are not exposed to the solution long enough to remove most markings; I have not been inclined to extend the exposure contrary to the manufacturer's instructions. PatK - RV-6A - Left tank attached to spar; LE parts back from priming ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 1996
From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net>
Subject: Re: misc. stuff (please read) Plus: YASQ: How plumb does the
jig need to be? pec.co.nz!frankv(at)matronics.com wrote: > OK... Yet Another Stupid Question that I've been worrying about... > Just how *exactly* plumb and level does the jig need to be? I mean, > it's impossible to make it absolutely level... how much error is > acceptable? As good as my carpenter's level can show it? Is an eighth > of an inch difference in height over the length of the beam OK? A > sixteenth? A 32nd? It's been discussed before, check the archive. Or read Van's comments in the manual and in the RVator compilation. Sorry to sound short about it, It's not a dumb question, it's just been talked to death. Briefly, the jig does not have to be plumb at all; the parts it holds must be. That said, the more plumb you can make it, the easier it is to make the parts plumb. Don't kill yourself to make a plumb jig, or spend too much money, and wear yourself out before you get to the *real* work - your kit. PatK - RV-6A - Left wing LE 80% complete ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: misc. stuff (please read)
Date: Jul 19, 1996
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB7563.5DD25C60 Gary, Nothing personal but if you have finished an RV already at 33, you are = an "old timer" on this list. (IMHO) I'm 12 yrs. older than you, but way = younger in RV time. (And I would rather be way way older in RV time!) Al prober(at)iwaynet.net ---------- From: = aol.com!RV6junkie(at)matronics.com[SMTP:aol.com!RV6junkie(at)matronics.com] Sent: Friday, July 19, 1996 9:37 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: misc. stuff (please read) <> I'm 33 years old. I was 27 when I started. I'm a baby when you look at = the rest of the population of aircraft builders. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov>
Subject: misc. stuff (please read)
Date: Jul 19, 1996
><> > >I'm 33 years old. I was 27 when I started. I'm a baby when you look at the >rest of the population of aircraft builders. > >Gary Corde >RV-6 N211GC > > Beat you, beat you. This child started at 23, just turned 27. -Scott N506RV (installing all that good stuff firewall forward) scottg(at)villagenet.com I like this dialog! Congratulations Scott. I started my RV-4 in '85 at age 23. I was a 2nd Lieutenant in the Air Force (interpreted about $18K annual income). First flight was in '91. At the time, I thought I was the youngest person to solely complete one and I certainly started it on a shoestring budget. Two projects later - I must be an "old timer" now !?! I think this points out some of the really awesome perspectives of homebuilding. The problem I'm having is I'm acquiring so many airplanes, I don't have any place to put them. Ask me in 30 years! Mitch Robbins robbinm(at)chi.ntsb.gov ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 1996
From: rdunn(at)ionet.net (Ronald M. Dunn)
Subject: Wanted: pneumatic sqeezer
I'm looking for a good used squeezer in the 200-300 range. I want the C type, not the alligator type. Is Oshkosh the best place to look? Ron Ron Dunn (RV-8 #80078) rdunn(at)ionet.net Broken Arrow, OK ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 1996
From: RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric)
Subject: Re: misc. stuff (please read)
Van sold a kit to a 23 year old???? Does your mother know what your'e doing? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You Wrote<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Beat you, beat you. This child started at 23, just turned 27. -Scott N506RV (installing all that good stuff firewall forward) scottg(at)villagenet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca
Date: Jul 19, 1996
Subject: Old Timers
I'm 38. I started at 33 and hope to fly before I'm 40. I am neither a newbie or an old timer but I have learned a thing or two by listening and asking. Sometimes by doing it wrong and then fixing it. One of these days I'll get it right and go flying. David Fried DF-6 C-____ dfried(at)dehavilland.ca P.S. Ken Hitchmough is pacing back and forth waiting for his flight permit. Maybe today. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: RV-List: misc. stuff (please read) Date: 7/19/96 11:06 AM <> I'm 33 years old. I was 27 when I started. I'm a baby when you look at the rest of the population of aircraft builders. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 1996
From: JIM SCHMIDT <JIM.SCHMIDT(at)mail.mei.com>
Subject: Re: Rotary conversion -Reply
Mike, Did they mention if they have a cowl for a -6. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 19, 1996
Subject: Re: Manifold pressure
Ed, I ran aeroquip hose for all of my connections. IMO it's a lot saffer. Yes it cost more money but I don't want to have to worry about things comming unglued. If you want to save money, run automotive style hose and fittings (almost the same stuff as the aircraft grade...half the price) for the low/no preasure stuff. DO NOT use this hose for the fuel ar oil system however. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com>

Subject: misc. stuff (please read)
Date: Jul 19, 1996
You waited until you were 27? I'm 23 and am finishing the tail kit for my RV8. Am I the youngest builder on this list? ---------- From: aol.com!RV6junkie(at)matronics.com[SMTP:aol.com!RV6junkie(at)matronics.com] Sent: Friday, July 19, 1996 6:37 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: misc. stuff (please read) <> I'm 33 years old. I was 27 when I started. I'm a baby when you look at the rest of the population of aircraft builders. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 19, 1996
Subject: Re: misc. stuff (please read) Plus: YASQ: How plumb does the
jig need t << OK... Yet Another Stupid Question that I've been worrying about... Just how *exactly* plumb and level does the jig need to be? I mean, it's impossible to make it absolutely level... how much error is acceptable? As good as my carpenter's level can show it? Is an eighth of an inch difference in height over the length of the beam OK? A sixteenth? A 32nd? I've read about people using a water hose to level it... is that better than a good carpenter's level? And if it needs to be that precise, how do you get the uprights *exactly* vertical? >> It doesn't have to be perfect as long as you can shim the structure when it gets into the jig. For example, the wing jig cross members will never be the same. So what you do is add a shim or two under the main spar to correct the difference. The idea here is to spend your time building an airplane...not jigs. BTW, be sure to check your jigs every now and then because wood in always shrinking and expanding. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 1996
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com>
Subject: Re: misc. stuff (please read)
> > > >Van sold a kit to a 23 year old???? Does your mother know what your'e >doing? > Yes. Actually late night rivetting keeps her up. It's being built in my parents garage. They sure are understanding now that an ENTIRE airplane is in their garage, living room, spare bedroom, under beds, in my room, etc. -Scott N506RV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov>
Subject: Wanted: pneumatic sqeezer
Date: Jul 19, 1996
Oshkosh is probably the best place to "look." It's also the worlds biggest gathering of people looking to buy them. Most of the good deals are gone before the show starts. Start looking on Wednesday. Most of the stuff that is left after Thursday is junk! Mitch Robbins ---------- From: owner-rv-list[SMTP:owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com] Sent: Friday, July 19, 1996 2:30 PM Subject: RV-List: Wanted: pneumatic sqeezer I'm looking for a good used squeezer in the 200-300 range. I want the C type, not the alligator type. Is Oshkosh the best place to look? Ron Ron Dunn (RV-8 #80078) rdunn(at)ionet.net Broken Arrow, OK ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 1996
From: pilla(at)emmanuel.espinc.com (Michael Pilla)
Subject: Re: Water levels
> >I used the water level on both wing and fuselage jig, using about a 5/16 > >clear plastic hose. The water level is somewhat vague because of the > >capillary action in the tubing, so the be more accurate than 1/16 of an inch > >is difficult see. I'm not sure I can hold my construction to that tolerance > > Fellow RVer's, A water level utilizing a larger diameter tube will be more > accurate. With a small dia., the capillary action does degrade readability. > 3/4" or larger would be easier to "read". Since clear tubing is expensive, > I would sugest that you use garden hose for most of the run. It seems like A trick I was taught was to add a little liquid detergent. The meniscus is significantly smaller and easier to read ... Mike Pilla pilla(at)spinc.com RV-4, #2866, trying to get the @#$%^&* canopy to fit :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 1996
From: kitairbldr(at)earthlink.net (Charles Coyne)
Subject: Kit Aircraft Builder Magazine
>>> I just received an offer to subscripe to "Kit Aircraft Builder" magazine. It >>> is a bi-monthly publication for $19.95 a year. Has anyone subscribed to it? >>> Is it worthwhile? >>> Thanks, >>> DougMel(at)aol.com >> >I subscribed to "Kit Aircraft Biulder" magazine over a year ago. So far, I >have received only 2 issues. I tried calling the publisher and they gave me >the run-around. The issue I got would be like "spring 95" or something. The >ad says that you get xx (24 I think) issues for $19.95 but it doesn't say at >what frequency they will come. At the rate I'm getting them, it will be a 10 >year subscription!! I think they are probably a start-up operation and I >would not recommend them to anyone. >---------------------------------------------- >Chris Brooks, RV-6 >-------------- >The publisher's Internet email address is "kitairbldr(at)earthlink.net". The >guys name is "Charles Coyne". I've CC'd him on this message; perhaps he'd >like to comment on his publication to the whole list (rv-list(at)matronics.com)? >Matt Dralle >RV-List Admin. >Matronics Firstly, I would like to thank Matt Dralle for informing me of the posting by Mr. Brooks on 13 July, and allowing me to reply. I have spoken to Mr. Brooks via telephone, and have sent him a refund check for $24.94 the cost of a 12-issue Charter Subscription, along with his missing issue. He evidently had some concerns about the period of time that it would take for him to receive the 12 issues of his Charter Subscription. Our subscriptions are sold on a Satisfaction Guaranteed basis, as stated in the advertising that we have placed in publications such the AeroCrafter Homebuilt Aircraft Source Book, Pacific Flyer, Trade-A-Plane, the EAA's Experimenter, and the EAA's Sport Aviation, as well as on brochures, flyers, etc. Mr. Brooks is correct in his assesment that this is a "start-up" operation. We began publishing the magazine in 1995 on a quarterly basis (four times per year). A Charter Subscription (Still Available for $24.95!) will result in a subscriber receiving 12 issues. On a quarterly basis, that would obviously be three years. However, our plan is to publish the magazine on a monthly basis as soon as possible. The next logical step in doing so is to move from our current quarterly schedule to a bi-monthly mode, which is what we are just beginning our transition to. From a bi-monthly schedule (six issue per year), the next step (and it is a large one) is to begin publishing on a monthly basis. Given the many challenges of publishing a new magazine, and given that fact that we are not backed by a huge, multi-title publishing company, the exact timing of these steps is sometimes a bit difficult to predict. (How close are/will/can you be to the predicted completion time of your kit aircraft?) Therefore, it is honesty hard to say that a 12-issue subscription will take "X" period of time to complete. But, you will get 12 issues in whatever time period that it takes to get 12 issues. If you choose the $19.95 one-year, six issue subscription, it could possibly take slightly more than a full year to complete the six-issue subscription, but hopefully we will be right on schedule with our transition to a bi-monthly mode. At any rate, you will get your 6 issues in whatever time period that it takes. In our first year of publishing KIT AIRCRAFT BUILDER, we have been able to present many excellent articles from noted experts such as Bill Fedorko, George Genevro, John Glover, Jon Goldenbaum, Jack Lambie, Jerry Stallings, Bob Nuckolls and H.B. Wise. Some of the major suppliers to the kit aircraft industry have elected to place advertising with us in our first year, including Aeropoxy, Allegro Avionics, Aircraft Spruce & Specialty, Brown Aviation Tool Supply Company, Contact!, Dale Wilch Sales & Mfg, Homebuilders Book Supply, Laron Aviation Technologies, LightSpeed Engineering, Motorsports Tools, Poly-Fiber, RagWing Aeroplane, Smithy, Van's Aircraft, Wag-Aero, Wicks Aircraft Supply, and U.S. Industrial Tool & Supply Company. I regret that Mr. Brooks chose to say what he did about this new magazine. Like any new endeavor, we need all the help we can get. To that end, I would be delighted to send, free of charge, copies of our current issue of KIT AIRCRAFT BUILDER to six to ten members of this forum for their review. They could then report to the group what they think. I believe a fair review of the contents of the magazine by members of this group would be a fine thing, and I would welcome their comments, both positive and negative. Anyone wishing to do so may contact me at: Coyne Publishing 1313 Paseo Alamos, San Dimas, CA 91773-4240 or kitairbldr(at)earthlink.net or KitAirBldr(at)aol.com or 1-800-827-5070 1-909-599-2691 FAX Hopefully this has clarified things a bit. Thank you all for your consideration. Best Regards, Charles Coyne Publisher Kit Aircraft Builder Magazine ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Matt993(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 19, 1996
Subject: Re: RV4 engines
>help > Ok guys~ what is the hot engine prop set-up for the RV4? Im sure this is a pandora's box -but I need to know!! + where can I get referenve material on lycoming engines - there are so many mods and I dont want to buy the wrong one. Do I want 150Hourse or 160?? Where are the builders in CT???? Any thoughts would be greatley appreciated. Regards, Matthew Fairy RV4 Norwalk CT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 19, 1996
Subject: Re: misc. stuff (please read)
<< At age 23, what does that make me? Ted Boudreaux >> I don't know....sperm? Only kidding, I'm glad to see that there are other young aircraft builders out there. You do realize that home-building is a unique hobby for people under 30. Traditionally aircraft building is something aging men do to ward-off mid-life-crises demons. >From what I have been reading I was under the impression that the last of the boomers and gen-x was lost to video games and satellite TV, unable to do any kind of physical activity. Hope to see all of the younger (rv grinnin') faces at the fly-ins soon. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 1996
From: Jamie+Kenneth Tiernan <Jamie-n-Kenneth.Tiernan(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Some guidance on RV-4 inspection
>Guys, > >I'm going to take a look at an RV-4 for Matt Fairy here in Columbus, Ohio. The airframe was built by EAA Chap. 09 as a chapter project and as I understand it, it is firewall back and nearly complete. (Can you say RV-4 quickbuild kit?) Do any of you 4 builders have any advice on what to look for in particular as far as details to inspect. I can tell quality of workmanship pretty well but I'm not real sure of the particular detail parts of a 4 to look at. The bottom skins of the wings are not on yet and the wings are temp. fitted to the fuselage. No engine, no inst.'s, tanks need to be plumbed etc.....etc..... I'm going to video the aircraft and as much detail as possible and overnight it to Matt. Thanks for any help here, > >Al >prober(at)iwaynet.net >RV-6 empenage in waiting N162NV Res. > Huh? I think we may have some crossed mail. Jamie Tiernan Jamie-n-Kenneth.Tiernan(at)Worldnet.att.net Jamie Tiernan Jamie-n-Kenneth.Tiernan(at)worldnet.att.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 1996
From: JIM SCHMIDT <JIM.SCHMIDT(at)mail.mei.com>
Subject: Re: screen door technique
I think what is being referred to is putting your parts to be sprayed on a peice of screening or an old screen door and then spray. It allows the airblast from the gun to blow thru the screen and not blast the part around. I sprayed all my nut plates this way work well. >>> Leo Davies 07/19/96 07:11pm >>> Alert !! Alert!!! What is the screen door technique to which you refer? Is this the answer to all those bits I hold with pliers and wave around until dry. I have a terrible feeling I've missed an important bit of information. Leo Davies Fitting interior to fuse and still struggling with priming those @!##$@% fiddly bits. snip > > I first tried hanging all my parts to be primered, and labelling >the hanger wires .... this was a pain in the a%&! I soon found priming was >much easier using the Bingelis screen door method and AKZO/Dexter primer >... but no more wires to label. > > ..... Gil (the stamper) Alexander > >RV6A, #20701 >gil(at)rassp.hac.com > > >*** snip *** > >> Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 1996
From: Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Darwin awards (fwd)
Tony... Sorry, I don't normally read other peoples mail, but when it's sent to me, I simply can't resist. I suspect that by now you are feeling pretty chagrined, so I won't harrass you for the fowl language, however, you should be aware of how the "reply to" field is set in any mail you receive. You are not the first that has been bit by this rather odd configuration of this list. If you have been on this list for more than a few months you will remember the "big vote" on how Matt should set the reply-to field. If you voted for"the old way" you now one reason why some of us felt it should be changed. Oh well, water under the bridge (or is that Router?). Sorry, fot the network-geek humor. Anyway... good luck with that trick reply-to thing, and stay in touch. Chris P.S. The variety of fish excrement that you refer to in the first sentence of your mail is spelled; Bass-turd. ;-) > > Hay Xxxhead: > > Where the xxxx have you been you KKK bastird. Here is a funny redirect for > you. I can definately relate to it. Drop me a line and let me know if > you're still alive. As of today my new e-mail address will be > eguard(at)aol.com. > > See you soon!!!! > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 1996
From: jeff bleakney <ts18003(at)dnsid.rac.ray.com>
Subject: Re: Rotary conversion
I remember reading about Powersport several years ago... pricing was not available. What is the price? Will Van's eventually offer that engine as an option? >> I'm kind of surprised that Powersport had to put so much effort >>into vibration control unless it's due to the PSRU. I'm most concerned >>about the PSRU, not the engine. > >The vibration they are refering to is TORSIONAL RESONANCE. Everet Hatch and >Steve Beckham put on an excellent forum on the developement of their engine >at Arlington last weekend. Some samples of broken parts that were very >impresive demonstrated what can happen when you work with stuff outside of >the parameters it was designed for. When you begin factoring in harmonics >and resonant frequencies, 200 HP from engine A is not the same 200 HP from >engine B and so on. > >That Powersport 200 they have developed as a firewall forward package is >going to start showing up on a lot or RV's for the price they are asking. >It does include the engine mount, cowl, starter, and alternator. > >Mike McGee >sn23530 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: NAEK31A(at)prodigy.com ( KURT L KEILBACH)
Date: Jul 19, 1996
Subject: misc. stuff
I started a rv 6a when I was 27 . I'm 29 now and waiting for the finish kit . I became serious about building an RV when I was 22 , but as things go , I waited 5 years ( I wish I hadn't ). Kurt Keilbach #24012 RV6a ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvbildr(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 19, 1996
Subject: Re: Rotary conversion -Reply
On a different subject; does anyone have a good source for the Andair fuel valve mentioned in RVator? I just looked at one at A/C Spruce E. and it is absolutely beautiful. The only trouble is that it is priced at $179. Can you buy one elsewhere cheaper? Thanks. Mal rvbildr(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvbildr(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 19, 1996
Subject: Re: Fwd: Darwin awards (fwd)
What a vulgar TURKEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bcg007(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 19, 1996
Subject: Re: misc. stuff (please read) Plus: YASQ: How plumb does the
jig need t Several replies concerning wings. Empennage jig depends on horizontal member being level (as level as you can make it). Keep in mind you can shim the brackets, so don't kill yourself. Mine was about 1/8 inch out of level end to end. I think the most important thing is to use stable wood so the jig won't twist or bow while you make the assemblies. If I did it over again, I would probably laminate (read: glue) 3/4 inch plywood together for the cross member (mine twisted slightly---) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Priming with screen door technique
Date: Jul 19, 1996
> > What is the screen door technique to which you refer? Is this the answer to > all those bits I hold with pliers and wave around until dry. I have a > terrible feeling I've missed an important bit of information. I can vouch for this method -- it works great. Build a table, but make the top of the table out of window screen material. This is where you lay your items to be primed. Your overspray goes through the screen, so you don't have a mess. Note that you have to wait for the one side to dry before you flip stuff over to prime the other side. But this works better for me than trying to hang things on a wire or something. If you are priming a sufficient number of things, then by the time you get to the end, the stuff near the front is probably dry enough to carefully flip over. -Joe -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037 Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg 6121 St. Croix Ave. N. Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 1996
From: finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen )
Subject: Re: Clear Rudder tip
You wrote: > >Strobe at the top of the vert fin is not a good idea. The flash at night is >very distracting. I have flown in an RV-4 with such an arrangement and it is >not good. That's why I think the RUDDER tip is ideal - the vert stab tip ought to shade the canopy area. Finn > >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 1996
From: finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen )
Subject: Re: Some guidance on RV-4 inspection
Do a full inventory against the lists that came with the kit. I wish i had, when I bought my RV-3 kit that had been started! It's amazing how nuts and bolts, fittings, weldments, etc add up! Canopy frame? You should be able to go over the plans to see what is still needed to complete the plane (fiber glass tips/fairings?) Finn You wrote: > >Guys, > >I'm going to take a look at an RV-4 for Matt Fairy here in Columbus, = >Ohio. The airframe was built by EAA Chap. 09 as a chapter project and = >as I understand it, it is firewall back and nearly complete. (Can you = >say RV-4 quickbuild kit?) Do any of you 4 builders have any advice on = >what to look for in particular as far as details to inspect. I can tell = >quality of workmanship pretty well but I'm not real sure of the = >particular detail parts of a 4 to look at. The bottom skins of the wings = >are not on yet and the wings are temp. fitted to the fuselage. No = >engine, no inst.'s, tanks need to be plumbed etc.....etc..... I'm going = >to video the aircraft and as much detail as possible and overnight it to = >Matt. Thanks for any help here, > >Al >prober(at)iwaynet.net >RV-6 empenage in waiting N162NV Res. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bcg007(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 19, 1996
Subject: I'm stuck!!
OK, I'm stuck-- Working on the RV6 rudder, trying to dimple the end ribs at the tips. They are VERY narrow as you know. So how do people do it? My squeezer won't fit, I tried a pop rivet dimpler without success---what's the trick? Jon Scholl ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 1996
From: "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov>
Subject: misc stuff
REGARDING misc stuff David Fried says ..." One of these days I'll get it right and go flying." ___________________ Dave, somehow I think your are batting far more than 500. Your responses and help to the list have been reasoned, seasoned and fortified with good math. Many thanx! -Elon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 1996
From: wesleyt <wesleyt(at)twave.net>
Subject: Re: builders age
KURT L KEILBACH wrote: > > I started a rv 6a when I was 27 . I am 22 now and I have Completed the horz. and vert. stab and the left wing, and am getting ready to skin the right wing. I started in December of 1994 and I have been making fair progress so far. I would like to have it ready for taxi testing by the end of next year. BTW Has anyone heard from TOMABP (The Old Men's Airplane Building Project)? It probally is to hot there in Arizona to do much. Wesley T Robinson wesleyt(at)twave.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JAllen6526(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 19, 1996
Subject: Re: Plumbing the fuselage jig
For my fuselage jig I bought an "electronic" water level from Home Depot for $20. I found that with care and patience it was accurate to about 1/16" (I hope). It is elecronic because once you set it (no small feat) you can move all over the place and it beeps at you when you hit the right level. Although you should get the jig as level as possible, it is much more important to level the airplane than the jig. That is, you can always shim the longerons. With the water level it was actually pretty straightforward to level the fuselage. What I was more concerned about was warping in the jig. Surprisingly, I got almost no warping at all and the fuselage remained straight and level. I had several pieces of lumber left over which I left under the jig. They warped significantly in about 2 weeks. In my case the jig structure did a good job of fixing the lumber to prevent warping. With regard to vertical alignment, I used thread tied to washers as plumblines. I had 2 on the front of the firewall and one on the top center of every bulhead throughout the assembly. I also used 1 on each side of the F-604 (I think that's the one the spar bolts to) to provide a really simple means of verifying and maintaining the proper angle for this piece. I really recommend the water level. It has come in handy on a number of occasions and it's cheap. John Allen jallen6526(at)aol.com Completing fuselage interior ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Matt993(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 19, 1996
Subject: Re: Some guidance on RV-4 inspection
thnks for your input Finn where are you located? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Matt993(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 19, 1996
Subject: Re: Some guidance on RV-4 inspection
are you through building yet? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jul 19, 1996
Subject: Re: My first dumb question
>-------------- >Dear Matt, > First things first.....Thank You!!! Your work on the RV >list is very much appreciated. Repeat...Very Much. >Now to the dumb question. I ran a search through the archive >using the original search engine. What wonderful information. >Anyway, I use Netscape (like the rest of the civilized world >apparently) and hit the print button. My computer/printer >put out 14 essentially blank pages. The header line at the top >of each page was appropriate, the page number at the bottom >of the pages was correct, but there was nothing in between. >Could the fact that my onscreen pages show up as white letters >on a black field matter? Any thoughts on this? Even if not, >THANKS. > I've been lurking on the list for about a month now. >Compared to other lists I've followed (non-aviation) there seems >to be not much irrelevant nonsense (OK....the Ugly American >thread of a couple weeks ago certainly qualifies as irrlevant) >and the old hands seem more tolerant of newbies than other lists >I've had the displeasure of following. Also, although you might >not agree with me, ther doesn't seem to be too much whining >about computer issues over which you have little control. Again, >this is compared to other lists. > So anyway, please accept my gratitude for your efforts. >Now if you can just direct me to a 180 hp lycoming that someone >will pay me to haul away........ > >Sincerely, Bill Yamokoski >-------------- Hi Bill! Thanks for the kind words. Your apperciation and that of others like yourself make all the work worth it. Yes, the RV-List prides itself on the high signal to noise ratio and generally very friendly, family nature. Bad behavior is just not tolerated. Since I pay for and maintain control of the List, I have the power to run the List with a firm hand. Usually though, everybody plays well together and it's a delightful atmosphere. As far as printing from Netscape, you are correct in your assumption about the colors. To make it print correctly, go to the "Page Setup" menu under the "File" menu. Select "Black Text" and "Black Lines". This will make the pages print just like you would like. The only problem with this menu is that the selections are not remembered each time Netscape is started. Let me know if this works for you, Matt Dralle RV-List Admin. -- ################################ +----------------------+ ##### ######## +--------------------------+ | ######## ############ | Matt G. Dralle | | #### #### #### #### #### | Matronics | | #### #### #### #### #### + | P.O. Box 347 | | #### #### #### #### #### | | Livermore, CA 94551 | | #### ##### #### #### | | 1+ 510-606-1001 Voice | + # # ## ##### ### ## # # # ### ## | | 1+ 510-606-6281 FAX | ## ## # # # # # # # ## # # # ## | | dralle(at)matronics.com | # # # #### # ### # # # ## # # ## | +--------------------------+ # # # # # # # ## # # # ### ## +-----------------------+ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: I'm stuck!!
<960719191738_437914895(at)emout07.mail.aol.com>
Date: Jul 19, 1996
From: Jack Abell <abell(at)rand.org>
Jon, Try the Vise Grip dimpling tool. It works when everything else is too thick. Jack Abell RV-6A N333JA (Reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: I'm stuck!!
>Working on the RV6 rudder, trying to dimple the end ribs at the tips. They >are VERY narrow as you know. So how do people do it? My squeezer won't fit, >I tried a pop rivet dimpler without success---what's the trick? > >Jon Scholl Jon, The vice grip dimple tool will probably work for you. Then you have to set the rivets. On my first RV, I tried the modified vice grip idea and the skinny bucking bar idea, niether of which I cared for. I finally broke down and bought a yoke for my pneumatic squeezer which features a very thin "arm" which will fit in the narrow confines of the tips of ribs. On the RV I'm building now, I don't place the last rivet as far towards the trailing edge as the plans might call for. We're not talking much difference but hopefully I will allow enough space so the squeezer yoke will be easier to use. If you elect to use pop rivets in this area, make sure the holes, top and bottom of the rib, are not positioned so as to interfere with the insertion of the pop rivets. In other words, after you set a pop rivet on the top, if the hole on the bottom is placed in a poor position, you will have trouble inserting the pop rivet all of the way in the hole. (Hopefully, I have explained this adequately) Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 1996
From: jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com (Michael McGee)
Subject: Re: Rotary conversion -Reply
>Mike, Did they mention if they have a cowl for a -6. > > As I understood it,the RV-6 will be the first production kit that they will produce. This is because they have had the most requests for the -6. Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 1996
From: jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com (Michael McGee)
Subject: Re: Rotary conversion
>I remember reading about Powersport several years ago... pricing was not >available. >What is the price? Will Van's eventually offer that engine as an option? > $14,900 roughly. If you will have your bird flying in late '96 or early '97 and would be interested in this package, contact Powersport for more info. They are getting ready to take orders. There is no news I have heard at this time that Van's has any intent to sell this engine. Having done business with Everet Hatch in the past I can attest to his attention to detail and patience in getting it right. He is as conservative as Van when it comes to predictions about performance and long term reliability. Like they say in Missouri - show me! The fact that Van has stated that this is a promising development in engines (now, don't exactly quote me on this, read the latest Sport Aviation issue) adds leaps of credibility to the setup IMHO. Mike sn23530 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 1996
From: Pat McClung <pmc123(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: I'm stuck!!
Bob Skinner wrote: > > >Working on the RV6 rudder, trying to dimple the end ribs at the tips. They > >are VERY narrow as you know. So how do people do it? My squeezer won't fit, > >I tried a pop rivet dimpler without success---what's the trick? > > > >Jon Scholl > > Jon, The vice grip dimple tool will probably work for you. Then you have to > set the rivets. On my first RV, I tried the modified vice grip idea and the > skinny bucking bar idea, niether of which I cared for. I finally broke down > and bought a yoke for my pneumatic squeezer which features a very thin "arm" > which will fit in the narrow confines of the tips of ribs. On the RV I'm > building now, I don't place the last rivet as far towards the trailing edge > as the plans might call for. We're not talking much difference but > hopefully I will allow enough space so the squeezer yoke will be easier to > use. If you elect to use pop rivets in this area, make sure the holes, top > and bottom of the rib, are not positioned so as to interfere with the > insertion of the pop rivets. In other words, after you set a pop rivet on > the top, if the hole on the bottom is placed in a poor position, you will > have trouble inserting the pop rivet all of the way in the hole. > (Hopefully, I have explained this adequately) > Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net The dimple tool made to use with a pop rivit gun will work--offset the holes slightly allows the second pop rivet room to be inserted all the way--good luck. Pat Mc ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mikel(at)dimensional.com
Date: Jul 19, 1996
Subject: Re: oil dipstick modification
OK: here's something: Having received a new engine from Van's (boy did I mull THAT one over a while. Very glad I got the new one with the above comments about overhauls). The oil dipstick sent with the O-320 is too long for the RV-4 and probabaly for the -6 as it runs into the engine mount AND the cowel. Is there a Lycoming part number that is shorter or is SOP to modify the long one? How does one glue/rivet/jam the modified long one so it stays together?? It would probably make several messes if it came apart at the wrong time. Michael RV-4 232 SQ mikel(at)dimensional.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 1996
From: finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen )
Subject: Re: Some guidance on RV-4 inspection
You wrote: > >thnks for your input Finn where are you located? > Clearwater, Florida (15 miles West of Tampa - TPA). (! mile from nearest airfield (CLW). Finn finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 1996
From: finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen )
Subject: Re: I'm stuck!!
I'm doing all my dimpling in tight spots with a small female die I picked up at sun'n'fun, a rivit and a rivet gun with a flat head. Put a rivit in the hole, hold the die against the inside, back the die with a thin or triangular bucket bar, and apply the rivit gun to the rivet. (Actually I've been using this method for all my 3/16" dimpling since the shanks broke on the dies I bought from ATS - too cheap to buy new ones - I don't have that much dimpling left to do). Finn You wrote: > >OK, I'm stuck-- > >Working on the RV6 rudder, trying to dimple the end ribs at the tips. They >are VERY narrow as you know. So how do people do it? My squeezer won't fit, >I tried a pop rivet dimpler without success---what's the trick? > >Jon Scholl > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung(at)Net1.Net>
Subject: Re: misc. stuff (please read)
Date: Jul 20, 1996
Makes you lucky and smart. I fell in love with the RVs when the -3 introduced 23 years ago and didn't start building until last Jan. At 44 I wish I had started sooner but I'm sure glad I didn't wait any longer. To all you fence sitters: you'll never have enough time, money, space, tools, knowledge, spousal support or whatever else is holding you back. Just jump in and do it, you'll find a way. Shoulda-woulda-coulda doesn't get it built. You'll love it! -- Greg Young gyoung(at)net1.net Citabria N90AV RV-6 s/n 23070 - left wing in jig ---------- > At age 23, what does that make me? > > Ted Boudreaux > ted_boudreaux@hp-pcd.hp.com > RV6A 22435 On hold till I move > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ > Subject: Re: RV-List: misc. stuff (please read) > Author: Non-HP-owner-rv-list (owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com) at > HP-Corvallis,shargw1 > Date: 7/19/96 6:37 AM > > > > <> > > I'm 33 years old. I was 27 when I started. I'm a baby when you look at the > rest of the population of aircraft builders. > > Gary Corde > RV-6 N211GC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: joeradford(at)juno.com (Joe R Radford)
Date: Jul 20, 1996
subscription ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 20, 1996
From: blpzx(at)pacifier.com (John Kimmel)
Subject: Re: Riveting Spar Strips To Spar Webb
>In message <960630150843_146108367(at)emout09.mail.aol.com>, aol.com!Brabst >onD(at)matronics.com writes >>Van's Aircraft Co: >> >>I'd like for you to respons to the following problem, please. >> >>I'm also sending this to RV-LIST to see what other builders have been doing >>in cases like this, and to help anyone getting ready to drive spar rivets. >> >>After reading the instructions and looking at the plans, I concluded that all >>of the # 6 rivets in the wing spars were to be installed with the shop head >>aft. That worked great (flange strips and webbs fit together real tight) >>until I got to station 71.5 where the W606A spar web was not sandwiched >>between the heavy spar strips. Of course that ment , the shop heads went >>aganist the thinner .040" spar webb. The rivets drove down good and tight. >> But, after I finished driving them I noticed that W606A was not held as >>tightly against spar strip W606C as before. It appears that driving the >>rivets caused a slight bulge around the holes in the .040" material resulting >>in a small gap (about .008") midway between the rivets. The spar webb is held >>tightly against the flange strip at the rivets but does a gradual separaion >>to about .008" at the point midway between the rivets. I think this could >>have been prevented by placing the factory heads on the .040 side and driving >>the shop heads on the flange strip side. >> >>Did I do something wrong? >>Is this slight separation common? >>Will this slight separation cause a problem? >>If the separation is not acceptable, what is a solution? >> >>Thanks, >>Doug Brabston > >I am just about to start on the spar for the RV6 would like to hear >about comments to the problem on this page >-- >Jan Coulter > > Doug has learned a new way to dimple metal. I haven't seen any other discussion of this problem since his message, so I'll give my input. As a general rule, the manufactured head should always be against the thinner material to prevent this dimpling. Other ways of dealing with the problem: 1) Squeeze the rivets; 2) use fresh AN470D ice box rivets; 3) install a doubler plate under the buck tails of the affected rivets-- say a .063 x .75 strap; 4) use the correct size rivet gun and bucking bar (at least 4x with a 4-5 lb bar). It sounds like the problem was caused by too small a gun with too small a bucking bar, .040 right next to an angle is a little thick for this problem to show up under normal circumstances. To get rid of the gaps, you might try turning the rivets around and/or installing a doubler, but it doesn't sound like too serious a problem. John Kimmel blpzx(at)pacifier.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TMRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 20, 1996
Subject: Re: oil dipstick modification
Mickael, The long dipstick is ok on my RV-6. Yes Lycoming has 3 sizes of dipsticks. I don't have the parts number here but will try to post tonight if no one has beaten me to it by then. Hope this helps Todd N92tm Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Matt993(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 20, 1996
Subject: Re: My first dumb question
Hi Matt, Another Matt here dumb question #2 - is it ok to type my entries in an E-Mail form such as AOL? Im still a little new at this internet stuff! Wonderful List and even more wonderful people! Matt Fairy RV4 CT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: K8DO(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 20, 1996
Subject: Re: Fwd: Darwin awards (fwd)
<< you KKK bastird. Here is a funny redirect for you. I can definately relate to it. >> Ummmm, Tony, old boy.... I just thought I would point out that you have managed to demonstrate through a world wide, public forum that you lack the ability to spell, among other things... Denny k8do(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov>
Subject: oil dipstick modification
Date: Jul 20, 1996
Several messes is right!!! Lycoming makes multiple dipstick tube lengths and extensions. Find a parts book, call their customer service, or call some of the salvage places. I know metal ones and plastic ones have been manufactured. Try to find one first! The plastic tubes can get brittle and crack quite readily. I have spliced a plastic one, but watch it closely! The dipstick tube fits firmly inside a scrap piece of aluminum pushrod tube. Although, I don't know the size, I know the one I used was cut off of one of Van's supplied RV-4 pushrod tubes. Plan the splice to insure it won't hit the engine mount-it's a tight fit. I used a couple of pop rivets in each joint and maybe some proseal. The dipstick will have to be calibrated to the new tube. I've run a spliced plastic one for 350 hours with no significant results but would prefer to have an integral one. Mitch Robbins ---------- From: owner-rv-list[SMTP:owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com] Sent: Saturday, July 20, 1996 4:32 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: oil dipstick modification OK: here's something: Having received a new engine from Van's (boy did I mull THAT one over a while. Very glad I got the new one with the above comments about overhauls). The oil dipstick sent with the O-320 is too long for the RV-4 and probabaly for the -6 as it runs into the engine mount AND the cowel. Is there a Lycoming part number that is shorter or is SOP to modify the long one? How does one glue/rivet/jam the modified long one so it stays together?? It would probably make several messes if it came apart at the wrong time. Michael RV-4 232 SQ mikel(at)dimensional.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV-List
From: joeradford(at)juno.com (Joe R Radford)
Date: Jul 20, 1996
Please place me on your main list. Thank You Joe Radford RV6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Oops
From: joeradford(at)juno.com (Joe R Radford)
Date: Jul 20, 1996
Disregard previous message, sent to wrong address. Joe Radford ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 20, 1996
Subject: Re: I'm stuck!!
>Jon, > >Try the Vise Grip dimpling tool. It works when everything else is too >thick. HEY! Don't put holes for rivets where you can't get to them! I'm sure that moving a hole & rivet 1/2" away from the narrow end won't hurt a thing. Adjust your spacing to accomadate the new pattern... Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 20, 1996
From: "Scholl Jon" <scholl.jon(at)smtpgw.bcg.com>
Subject: I'm stuck!!
Sorry--with pre drilled metal, I don't have any choice!! _______________________________________________________________________________
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Sat, Jul 20, 1996 13:21
Subject: Re: I'm stuck!!
>Jon, > >Try the Vise Grip dimpling tool. It works when everything else is too >thick. HEY! Don't put holes for rivets where you can't get to them! I'm sure that moving a hole & rivet 1/2" away from the narrow end won't hurt a thing. Adjust your spacing to accomadate the new pattern... Check six! Mark ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ by relay.bcg.com (post.office MTA v1.9.1 ID# 244-13979) with SMTP id AAA236 for ; (V3.1.1)
From: aol.com!Mlfred(at)matronics.com
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 12:36:54 -0400 Subject: Re: RV-List: I'm stuck!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: RE: Turbine Engine
Date: Jul 20, 1996
From: Micheal Mims[SMTP:mikemims(at)pacbell.net] Sent: Saturday, July 20, 1996 1:51 PM Hello everyone I just returned from Aircraft Spruce, they have a Turbine Engine on sale there. It is actually a APU for an F-14 Tomcat, it weighs 325 lbs (turbine and gearbox, starter and generator.) You can have a modification done that removes one of the compressors and gives you an extra 25hp plus saves you 40lbs. The total Shaft HP is 225 @ 6000rpm! These engines are new surplus! (not reman.) Now for the best part, they are only $5500.00!!! With the compressor mod this would be 250 hp @ 285lbs Jet-A fuel and only $5500.00!! If I was only building an RV or something a little bigger!!! Micheal Mims JUST PLANE NUTTS MikeMims(at)pacbell.net http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand/mikeskr.html Hmmm...I wonder????? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 20, 1996
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: Free email service provider
Hi Folks, This is not directly related to RV building, but it is a response to a help message I sent to Joe Radford about signing up for the list. Joe told me about a new email service that I think many of our list members might be interested in. I am going to try it and, if you want to wait and see, I will report later when I get it. Or contact Joe for more details. Hope my including this here doesn't bug anyone. Bill Costello ---- Begin 'Forwarded' Message ) writes: >Hi Joe, > >If no one has told you yet, you get on the RV list by sending >an email addressed to: > RV-list-request(at)matronics.com > >with nothing in the Subject area (blank) > >and just the one word in the message: > > SUBSCRIBE > >When you are on the list, send messages, as you sent the one >I saw, to: > RV-list(at)matronics.com > >Best regards, > > Bill Costello >-- > >Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246 >Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC > > Hi Bill, Thanks, I just figured that out, I subscribed about a week ago using the E-Mail address from work and I just got an E-Mail address of my own but forgot that I needed to use the majordomo address to sign up. By the way anyone interested in a "free" E-Mail address can get one from "JUNO". The software and the address is free. Apparently they pay for the service through advertising that appears on the top of your screen when you use the software. If anyone is interested send a message to "signup(at)juno.com". I got a copy of the software from a friend so I don't know how it works when you send the message (i.e. how do you get the software) but in the program there is message to pass the work about the service and feel free to copy the software. The program is windows based and easy to use, it has folders you can create to organize and save your mail. Also you can read your saved mail off line which I was not able to do with netcom. Any way just thought I would pass that a long incase anyone is interested. Regards, Joe Radford Phoenix, Az RV-6 Just Started wings two weeks ago. Finished riveting main spars with large pneumatic squeezer rented from Van's, (worked great). Only 20 bucks for one week. End 'Forwarded' message Bill Costello -- Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246 Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 20, 1996
From: elon ormsby <ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov>
Subject: The Van quote
It appears that Van's quote in the July issue of "Sport Aviation" has re-kindled or generated a lot of hopeful support for the Rotary as an alternative engine choice for the rv-series of aircraft. Since Van is very careful, cautious and prone to understatement - and his latest statements are non-critical in nature - I think people are erroneously jumping to the wrong conclusions. The "Sport Aviation" quote is: VanGrunsven says "Their test powerplant seems to perform well, and all of the data is plausible. While that may not sound surprising, there's an awful lot published in that end of the industry that is not plausible, so its really an exception rather than the rule that it's believable. ... ALL HE IS SAYING IS THAT THERE IS SO MUCH BS OUT THERE THESE FOLKS APPEAR TO BE PROVIDING HONEST AND FACTUAL DATA. "I think it's one of the better if not the best effort of anyone trying to adapt the Mazda rotary for aircraft use" AGAIN, HIS KNOWLEDGABLE ASSESSMENTS OF THE ALTERNATIVE ENGINE DEVELOPMENTS IS RATHER NEGATIVE AND THESE FOLKS APPEAR TO HAVE THE RIGHT APPROACH OVER ALL OTHERS. The above is a far cry from Van endorsing any particular product, or alternative engines in particular. Since there is no proven reliability history on this engine and there are no "deep pockets" (like Textron) to go after - Van would be risking the company if he was to offer such an engine choice. I'll predict ground-based ADF and VOR's will be long gone before you ever see such an engine offering from Van. For those that care please note that my e-mail address has changed. -Elon ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash)
Subject: Re: RE: Turbine Engine
Date: Jul 20, 1996
>>From: Micheal Mims[SMTP:mikemims(at)pacbell.net] >>Sent: Saturday, July 20, 1996 1:51 PM >>Hello everyone I just returned from Aircraft Spruce, they have a Turbine >>Engine on sale there. It is actually a APU for an F-14 Tomcat, it weighs >>325 lbs (turbine and gearbox, starter and generator.) You can have a >>modification done that removes one of the compressors and gives you an >>extra 25hp plus saves you 40lbs. The total Shaft HP is 225 @ 6000rpm! >>These engines are new surplus! (not reman.) Now for the best part, they >>are only $5500.00!!! >>With the compressor mod this would be 250 hp @ 285lbs Jet-A fuel and >>only $5500.00!! If I was only building an RV or something a little >>bigger!!! >>Micheal Mims >>JUST PLANE NUTTS >>MikeMims(at)pacbell.net >>http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand/mikeskr.html >>Hmmm...I wonder????? >> >> Yes! The light bulbs are going on! We are the distributor of these engines and sell the mods and run panels for them too! We placed the engine there for Aircraft Spruce to show and they will be taking it to Oshkosh for display, too. You are right, they are BRAND NEW in the box for only $5500! We are happy to supply any info free of charge. In fact , we have a hanger sale going on that has lot's of stuff, tools, parts, radios, instruments and as always offer the booklet "How To Soundproof the Light Aircraft" free for the asking! You can get the sale listing by mail, give your name and address, or by Fax, advise what you are interested in. (I've got the plans for an RV-6, but maybe I wont be the first with a turbine in one...) AIRCRAFT REMAUNUFACTURING 1291 E. VISTA WAY, #150 VISTA, CA. 92084 (619) 749 0239 FAX: 749 6384 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Matt993(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 20, 1996
Subject: Re: RE: Turbine Engine
did you read the Darwin award notes................ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 20, 1996
From: Fred Hiatt <hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: misc. stuff (please read)
What's this stuff about a midlife crisis, I'm pushing 64 and I haven't had one yet. No problem, I plan to live and fly into my ninetys so I have plenty of time. There is an old German saying, "Too soon old, and too late smart." Try to keep up with me guys, Fred Greg Young wrote: > > Makes you lucky and smart. I fell in love with the RVs when the -3 > introduced 23 years ago and didn't start building until last Jan. At 44 I > wish I had started sooner but I'm sure glad I didn't wait any longer. > > To all you fence sitters: you'll never have enough time, money, space, > tools, knowledge, spousal support or whatever else is holding you back. > Just jump in and do it, you'll find a way. Shoulda-woulda-coulda doesn't > get it built. You'll love it! > -- > Greg Young > gyoung(at)net1.net > Citabria N90AV > RV-6 s/n 23070 - left wing in jig > > ---------- > > At age 23, what does that make me? > > > > Ted Boudreaux > > ted_boudreaux@hp-pcd.hp.com > > RV6A 22435 On hold till I move > > > > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator > _________________________________ > > Subject: Re: RV-List: misc. stuff (please read) > > Author: Non-HP-owner-rv-list (owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com) at > > HP-Corvallis,shargw1 > > Date: 7/19/96 6:37 AM > > > > > > > > <> > > > > I'm 33 years old. I was 27 when I started. I'm a baby when you look at > the > > rest of the population of aircraft builders. > > > > Gary Corde > > RV-6 N211GC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 20, 1996
From: Fred Hiatt <hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Clear Rudder tip
Finn Lassen wrote: > > You wrote: > > > >Strobe at the top of the vert fin is not a good idea. The flash at > night is > >very distracting. I have flown in an RV-4 with such an arrangement and > it is > >not good. > > That's why I think the RUDDER tip is ideal - the vert stab tip ought to > shade the canopy area. > > Finn > > > > >> > > > >Don't believe it. That tail mounted strobe will be obnoxiously visible at night, on the rudder tip or not. Turn that thing on at night, and go into some clouds and you are in for a serious case of vertigo. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 20, 1996
From: Fred Hiatt <hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: RE: Turbine Engine
Allan W. Mojzisik wrote: > > From: Micheal Mims[SMTP:mikemims(at)pacbell.net] > Sent: Saturday, July 20, 1996 1:51 PM > Hello everyone I just returned from Aircraft Spruce, they have a Turbine > Engine on sale there. It is actually a APU for an F-14 Tomcat, it weighs > 325 lbs (turbine and gearbox, starter and generator.) You can have a > modification done that removes one of the compressors and gives you an > extra 25hp plus saves you 40lbs. The total Shaft HP is 225 @ 6000rpm! > These engines are new surplus! (not reman.) Now for the best part, they > are only $5500.00!!! > With the compressor mod this would be 250 hp @ 285lbs Jet-A fuel and > only $5500.00!! If I was only building an RV or something a little > bigger!!! > Micheal Mims > JUST PLANE NUTTS > MikeMims(at)pacbell.net > http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand/mikeskr.html > Hmmm...I wonder????? Sounds good but are you aware of the high fuel consumption of turbine engines? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 20, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: FOR SALE, PROP EXT.
For those of you planning on using a wooden prop., I have a 'surplus' 4 inch prop extension. The invoice from Vans shows 'Prop EXT-4 $180.00, and Prop EXT Bolt Kit 7/16, 6 ea 7/16"ext bolt $21.00.' If you are interested, please e-mail me direct at johnd@our-town.com. If there are plenty of you, I will set up a silent auction, goes to highest bidder. Minimum bid of $100.00 and you pay freight. John D John Darby RV6 N61764 flying johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kpsmith(at)sprynet.com
Date: Jul 20, 1996
Subject: Enroute stop for OSH
We live a few miles from JOT (Joliet), LOT (Lewis) and Clow. Just got the thumbs up for hosting OSH enroutes/returnees if you don't mind a fouton in a large basement and a house full of kids. LOT and JOT both offer reasonable fuel, reasonable commercial accomodations, and are near the beaten path. There are two RV's at LOT. I'll be at OSH the first and second, but the offer is open then too, courtesy of hostess. If interested, kpsmith(at)sprynet.com --Ken Smith RV6 empenage and shop under construction. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 20, 1996
From: Rick Osgood <74774.54(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: T607 & 608
I cut out the tank access plate and ring for my 6A tanks today and noticed that the ring rides up on the indent above the large lightning hole. I looked at drawing #18 and they show the ring as being below this ridge. I checked the ring diameter inside and out and the rib size itself. All are correct. Am I missing something here or when all is sealed will it work out. Thanks in advance for any input Rick 74774.54(at)Compuserve.com (one of those guys) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LHaines794(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 20, 1996
Subject: Re: RE: Turbine Engine
(BJ Nash) writes: << You are right, they are BRAND NEW in the box for only $5500! We are happy to supply any info free of charge. In fact , we have a hanger sale going on that has lot's of stuff, tools, parts, radios, instruments and as always offer the booklet "How To Soundproof the Light Aircraft" free for the asking! You can get the sale listing by mail, give your name and address, or by Fax, advise what you are interested in. (I've got the plans for an RV-6, but maybe I wont be the first with a turbine in one...) AIRCRAFT REMAUNUFACTURING 1291 E. VISTA WAY, #150 VISTA, CA. 92084 (619) 749 0239 FAX: 749 6384 >> Very interesting. Can you give us any additional info, such as fuel burn, necessary airframe mods, etc? LHaines ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com>
Subject: Turbine Engine
Date: Jul 20, 1996
Keep in mind that most of these APUs are not designed for continuous power. You never see a BD5J flying to and from airshows. Theres a reason it's trailered! Greg Bordelon greg(at)brokersys.com From: Micheal Mims[SMTP:mikemims(at)pacbell.net] Sent: Saturday, July 20, 1996 1:51 PM Hello everyone I just returned from Aircraft Spruce, they have a Turbine Engine on sale there. It is actually a APU for an F-14 Tomcat, it weighs 325 lbs (turbine and gearbox, starter and generator.) You can have a modification done that removes one of the compressors and gives you an extra 25hp plus saves you 40lbs. The total Shaft HP is 225 @ 6000rpm! These engines are new surplus! (not reman.) Now for the best part, they are only $5500.00!!! With the compressor mod this would be 250 hp @ 285lbs Jet-A fuel and only $5500.00!! If I was only building an RV or something a little bigger!!! Micheal Mims JUST PLANE NUTTS MikeMims(at)pacbell.net http://www.netcom.com/~mimsmand/mikeskr.html Hmmm...I wonder????? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Jul 21, 1996
Subject: Re: RE: Turbine Engine
>On Sat, 20 Jul 1996 >Yes! The light bulbs are going on! We are the distributor of these >engines and sell the mods and run panels for them too! We placed the >engine there for Aircraft Spruce to show and they will be taking it to >Oshkosh for display, too. You are right, they are BRAND NEW in the box >for only $5500! We are happy to supply any info free of charge. >In fact , we have a hanger sale going on that has lot's of stuff, >tools, parts, radios, instruments and as always offer the booklet "How >To Soundproof the Light Aircraft" free for the asking! You can get >the sale listing by mail, give your name and address, or by Fax, >advise what you are interested in. >(I've got the plans for an RV-6, but maybe I wont be the first with a >turbine in one...) > > >AIRCRAFT REMAUNUFACTURING >1291 E. VISTA WAY, #150 >VISTA, CA. 92084 (619) 749 0239 FAX: 749 6384 Junk Mail on the List! Ok ...now you've done it. There will be a boatload of posts on this one. So tell us the details. Whats the fuel burn? Whats the TBO? Can you get parts? How is the gear reduction set up? How do you get a prop on the thing? Can you get a constant speed to work on it? Tell us skeptics. As my Grandad said "The problem with laying traps is you've got to run em". Start Running. Skeptical: Rusty Gossard N47 RG RV-4 Flying with good old Williamsport Iron ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 21, 1996
From: inet(at)intellisys.net (brian whatcott)
Subject: Rotary conversion
>I think most people underrate the importance of vibration. The "RV4 tried >to kill me" note posted here a day or so ago was about a cracked exhaust >pipe that was almost certainly caused by vibration. It tires the pilot and >fatigues the whole airframe and engine. /// >Tom Sargent, Tucson, AZ, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com > I understand (from what I've read here) that two or more stubs from different air-cooled cylinders were hard connected, with no compliance built in. If this is true, THIS is the probable cause of cracking. brian ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov>
Subject: RE: Turbine Engine
Date: Jul 21, 1996
Ditto- Hey everyone-don't be so quick to discount this. It might be a neat project-that's what "EXPERIMENTAL" is supposed to be about. Maybe someone wants to have an RV that will go straight up through 20 thousand feet, burn 150 lb./hr, have a range of 200 miles, and have an endurance of one hour. I know of at least one Glassair III owner, who I understand was also a doctor (nothing implied), who had an airplane like this with an Allison 250B installed. The NTSB accident report, following his fatal takeoff accident, mentioned something about P-factor and insufficient rudder authority. When the engine shells out do you get to buy the replacement parts for the same amount? It's been a long time since I've designed a robust gearbox to reduce from 70,000 N1 rpm to prop speeds on my homebuilt budget. Mitch Robbins rv-4-flying, navion-flying, IAC one design-welding robbinm(at)chi.ntsb.gov ---------- From: owner-rv-list[SMTP:owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com] Sent: Sunday, July 21, 1996 8:30 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Turbine Engine >On Sat, 20 Jul 1996 >Yes! The light bulbs are going on! We are the distributor of these >engines and sell the mods and run panels for them too! We placed the >engine there for Aircraft Spruce to show and they will be taking it to >Oshkosh for display, too. You are right, they are BRAND NEW in the box >for only $5500! We are happy to supply any info free of charge. >In fact , we have a hanger sale going on that has lot's of stuff, >tools, parts, radios, instruments and as always offer the booklet "How >To Soundproof the Light Aircraft" free for the asking! You can get >the sale listing by mail, give your name and address, or by Fax, >advise what you are interested in. >(I've got the plans for an RV-6, but maybe I wont be the first with a >turbine in one...) > > >AIRCRAFT REMAUNUFACTURING >1291 E. VISTA WAY, #150 >VISTA, CA. 92084 (619) 749 0239 FAX: 749 6384 Junk Mail on the List! Ok ...now you've done it. There will be a boatload of posts on this one. So tell us the details. Whats the fuel burn? Whats the TBO? Can you get parts? How is the gear reduction set up? How do you get a prop on the thing? Can you get a constant speed to work on it? Tell us skeptics. As my Grandad said "The problem with laying traps is you've got to run em". Start Running. Skeptical: Rusty Gossard N47 RG RV-4 Flying with good old Williamsport Iron ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 21, 1996
From: amsteve(at)limestone.kosone.com (a stevenson)
Subject: Re: Banquet at Oshkosh
> > >To confirm for those that want spots at the Banquet table in Oshkosh, I will > > >post this list on the RV list every so often. > >The following are comfirmed for the banquet Sunday 7PM 8-4-96: > > Tim Wooten 1 > Curtis Hinkley 1 > Mike Cheney 1 > Joe Lewis and friend 2 > Eric & Carolyn Barnes 2 > Bill Costello 1 > Sis 'Veronica' Costello 1 > Dave Musgrave 1 > John Musgrave 1 > Jim Cone & wife 2 > Larry Groom & 3 friends 4 > Danny Kight 1 > Joel Harding 1 > Chris Harding 1 > Greg Bordelon 1 > Rob Lee 1 > Steven Spruell 1 > John Zidek and friend 2

July 11, 1996 - July 21, 1996

RV-Archive.digest.vol-bq