RV-Archive.digest.vol-br
July 21, 1996 - July 30, 1996
>
>
>If I have missed anyone, let me know.
>
>
>Cecil
>
>
>
>
>
>
Cecil
Please add my name. Will pick up one ticke the first day of Osh. Thanks...
Al Stevenson
amsteve(at)limestone.kosone.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hobby Stevens <sarast(at)camalott.com> |
| Subject: | yoke sizes for rivet squeezers |
I am in the process of buying tools to start on the RV6 tail that I received
last week. My question -- as I intend to buy both hand and pneumatic rivet
squeezers, what size yokes work best on a RV6? My inclination is to buy a
2" & a 3", but I'm sure open for comments. Thanks in advance.
Hobby Stevens
RV6 SER#24818 N41HS(reserved)
sarast(at)camalott.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aggie77(at)bitstreet.com (Phil Forrest) |
| Subject: | Re: Banquet at Oshkosh |
>To confirm for those that want spots at the Banquet table in Oshkosh,
I will
>
>
>post this list on the RV list every so often.
>
>The following are comfirmed for the banquet Sunday 7PM 8-4-96:
>
> Tim Wooten 1
> Curtis Hinkley 1
> Mike Cheney 1
> Joe Lewis and friend 2
> Eric & Carolyn Barnes 2
> Bill Costello 1
> Sis 'Veronica' Costello 1
> Dave Musgrave 1
> John Musgrave 1
> Jim Cone & wife 2
> Larry Groom & 3 friends 4
> Danny Kight 1
> Joel Harding 1
> Chris Harding 1
> Greg Bordelon 1
> Rob Lee 1
> Steven Spruell 1
> John Zidek and friend 2
>
>
>If I have missed anyone, let me know.
>
>
>Cecil
count me in
Philip Forrest
pforrest(at)bitstreet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: July issue of newsletter |
Call Van's Aircraft (503) 647-5117 and ask them if they will give you a list
of RV builders in the Cloumbus area who can look at the plane and give you an
oppinion about it.
Look in Kit Planes magazine, Sport Aviation magazine, or Trade-A-Plane for an
engine.
Subscriptions to my newsletter are $5. per year. It is published quarterly.
You get all back issues for 1996 when you subscribe. You can also get the
1995 back issues for $5. The newsletter is not really a newsletter but is
designed to help you build your RV better and easier while avoiding the
mistakes that I and others have made. Each issue has pictures and
illustrations along with the stories. To subscribe, send check to Van's Air
Force, 422 Savannah Ridge Drive, St. Charles, MO 63303. Thanks for your
interest in my newsletter.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
Rick Osgood wrote:
> I cut out the tank access plate and ring for my 6A tanks today and noticed that
> the ring
> rides up on the indent above the large lightning hole. I looked at drawing #18
> and they show the ring as being below this ridge. I checked the ring diameter
> inside and out and the rib size itself. All are correct.
>
> Am I missing something here or when all is sealed will it work out.
Without looking at my old plans, I would venture to say that perhaps the
rib form has been changed and your plans don't reflect it. My wing kit
came with the precut ring and access plate; I followed the new plans,
which put the ring on the back side (indent is away from the ring) and
the access plate is trimmed to clear the indentations. When the plate
is installed, the rib is sandwiched between the plate/cork gasket and
the ring. I aligned the holes so that the two closest to the
indentation were equidistant from it, assuring that they were on the
flat surface, along with the rivets for their corresponding nutplates.
I hope this explanation helps.
PatK - RV-6A - Left leading edge 99% complete and on the spar
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Turbine Engine |
>>
>>
>>Ditto-
>>
>>Hey everyone-don't be so quick to discount this. It might be a neat
>>project-that's what "EXPERIMENTAL" is supposed to be about.
>>
>>Maybe someone wants to have an RV that will go straight up through 20
>>thousand feet, burn 150 lb./hr, have a range of 200 miles, and have an
>>endurance of one hour.
And some people wouldn't!
>>
>>When the engine shells out do you get to buy the replacement parts for
>>the same amount?
Why not buy one now for parts?
>It's been a long time since I've designed a robust
>>gearbox to reduce from 70,000 N1 rpm to prop speeds on my homebuilt
>>budget.
No need, the engine comes with one!
>>
>>Mitch Robbins
>>rv-4-flying, navion-flying, IAC one design-welding
>>robbinm(at)chi.ntsb.gov
>>
>> ----------
>>From: owner-rv-list[SMTP:owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com]
>>Sent: Sunday, July 21, 1996 8:30 AM
>>To: rv-list
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Turbine Engine
>>
>
>>
>>Junk Mail on the List!
>>
>>Ok ...now you've done it. There will be a boatload of posts on this one.
>>
Yup, I did it by answering the post, offering more info to those
interested, in cause of informing rather than junking up the list.
>>So tell us the details. Whats the fuel burn? Whats the TBO? Can you get
>>parts?
Fuel about 30 gals per hour, but you can use off road truck diesel at
great savings! TBO in excess of 1000 cycles, in a turbine it's the
number of starts and stops that count, not how long it runs...
>>How is the gear reduction set up? How do you get a prop on the thing?
It has a gear box, very robust, but the drive runs at 6000 rpm so it
needs to be reduced again to around 2000 rpm. An electric prop, (IVO
makes one) can then be fitted, allowing the turbine to operate at it's
rated hp, varying pitch to go.
>>Can
>>you get a constant speed to work on it? Tell us skeptics.
Sure, why not?
>>
>>As my Grandad said "The problem with laying traps is you've got to run
>>em".
>>
>>Start Running.
>>
>>Skeptical:
>>Rusty Gossard
>>N47 RG RV-4 Flying with good old Williamsport Iron
>>
>>
>>
I'll be glad to answer any questions about turbine operation, I've had
quite a bit of experiance with the bigger stuff. bill nash
AIRCRAFT REMAUNUFACTURING
1291 E. VISTA WAY, #150
VISTA, CA. 92084 (619) 749 0239 FAX: 749 6384
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
| Subject: | Re: Turbine Engine |
>>Keep in mind that most of these APUs are not designed for continuous power.
>>You never see a BD5J flying to and from airshows. Theres a reason it's
>>trailered!
>>
>>Greg Bordelon
>>greg(at)brokersys.com
>>
Well, Greg, I would have to differ with you on both counts! APUS
* ARE* designed for continous power! They set there day after day,
hour after hour, running the systems on aircraft as they are repaired,
tested and started! They are subjected to heavy, varying loads as
they start engines, etc. A turbine runs at a constant, set speed, the
fuel control unit ajusts for load, etc. For our application with a
prop, an electric can be fitted so as to reduce pitch while starting,
allowing a small "starter/generator" to be used, then when you want to
go and you've reached your rated turbine rpm, you just increase pitch
and awaaay you go! (IVO makes a suitable 3 bladed unit for about
$1800).
Re the BD-5 jet, it is so small it cannot carry any fuel, except for
the airshow. It has a JET engine, not a gas turbine. No such jet
engines as such are used for APU's. Those engines are extremely
reliable, built at a cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars (same as
our T-40s!) for delivering a very expensive warhead!
They trailer them not because they are in any way unreliable, etc, but
just because they have no range.
As you become more familier with turbine engines, you'll see the
advantages (and some disadvantages) far better!
AIRCRAFT REMAUNUFACTURING
1291 E. VISTA WAY, #150
VISTA, CA. 92084 (619) 749 0239 FAX: 749 6384
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | inet(at)intellisys.net (brian whatcott) |
| Subject: | RE: Turbine Engine |
>
> It's been a long time since I've designed a robust
>gearbox to reduce from 70,000 N1 rpm to prop speeds on my homebuilt
>budget.
>
>Mitch Robbins
>
The shaft output is specified as 6000 rpm.
If you're interested in a robust reduction remember the rule
of thumb is 'less than 2:1' to keep the NTSB at bay.
brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: yoke sizes for rivet squeezers |
I am just finishing the empennage. Unless you WANT to spend the mony, there
is no need for a pneumatic squeezer. The Avery hand tool was perfect for the
kit. Don't kow about wings and fuse, but you could wait.
I got along fine with the 1.5 inch standard yoke. The only place I am having
difficulty with that size is on the rudder leading edge, but intend to buck
those rivets (need 3 and 3.5 inch throat size). You DO need a very thin tool
to set the rivets in the tips of the tip ribs throughout the kit. Vans has a
drawing for a Vice Grip tool in the construction manual. I opted to but
Avery "no hole" yoke (very thin at the 'nose') to set those rivets. 4 inch
size will reach anywhere you need (I have the three inch, may return it for
the four).
Its a lot of fun---good luck.
Jon Scholl
Plano TX
RV6 empennage almost done
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | On line FAA info |
Are there any on-line sources of info like (including) AC 20-27D to explain
(to us newbies) the process of getting a homebuilt flying (log requirements,
etc.)
Jon Scholl
Plano TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen) |
| Subject: | Re: Turbine Engine |
You wrote:
>
>Keep in mind that most of these APUs are not designed for continuous
power.
>You never see a BD5J flying to and from airshows. Theres a reason it's
>trailered!
>
>Greg Bordelon
>greg(at)brokersys.com
I live in Renton just a few block from Dave (Hammer) Harris who flies
the BD5-J and just the other day I asked him what the endurance of his
plane was when he was going up for some practice. He told me the
endurance is about 1/2 hour. Also, the jet engine he flies is so
expensive I am sure he would not reduce its life by flying to/from
airshows.
However, at Arlington I went to a forum on a 100 hp APU turboprop from
a CH-47 helicoptor. Its fuel consumption was much more acceptable.
Unfortunately, I have yet to see one in the 200 hp range for an RV.
Peter Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com
_______________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | How to rivet the trailing edge |
Several postings have dealt with the difficulty involved with riveting the
skin to the rib at the trailing edge of the control surfaces. The below is
an article I wrote a few years ago to help with that problem. I'm sorry but
the graphics didn't paste into the email document. The original article
complete with graphics is in the "Best of Puget Sound RVators" available for
$10.00 plus $2.50 shipping/handling from me. Ok, Ok, end of advertising----
HOW TO RIVET IN TIGHT PLACES
by John Ammeter
Puget Sound RVators
Several of the flush rivets near the trailing edge of the control surfaces
are very difficult to install; there isn't room to use either a rivet gun
and bucking bar or the conventional rivet squeezer. Some builders have
taken a vise grip pliers and ground the jaws flat to use as a rivet
squeezer. This is entirely adequate but, with the price of even the
inexpensive import pliers nearing $5.00 or $6.00, there has to be a cheaper way.
Even on the RV-6, which is almost all aluminum, there are fewer than 50 (out
of 12,000) rivets that are located in such tight quarters. Since most of
the control surfaces will have been back-riveted it is likely that you will
have a large heavy flat piece of steel around the shop someplace. If your
shop is as organized as mine, take a few days off and find it; it is sure to
be somewhere logical, like under the scrap aluminum pile.
Put the flat steel plate on the bench and carefully place the control
surface (with the rivet in place in the hole) on it; you will probably have
to block up the far end so it will sit flat on the plate. Now take the
square bar and carefully put the formed end on the working end of the rivet.
The other end of the bar will sit on the flat plate. At this point you have
realized that you are about to use a hammer in close proximity to the piece
of aluminum you have spent 2 weeks building. This is not the time for shaky
hands; if you value your airplane parts as much as I do there is a very
simple way to shield the control surface from harm. Either place your extra
hand (whichever is not holding the hammer) on the control surface to act as
a cushion in case you happen to come too close to the aluminum (this is
guaranteed to increase your anxiety and make you even more shaky) or place a
large piece of wood over the aluminum. Personally, I prefer the use of wood
over flesh; so does my wife and dog, fewer sound effects when I slip. Now,
very carefully, strike one blow with the hammer on the bar near the
aluminum. If all went as planned you now have a perfectly formed working
head on the rivet.
This is a very simple solution to a very vexing problem. I want to credit
this idea to Mike Adams of Vancouver,WA. He and his friend, Russ Parr,
stopped by my shop recently and, seeing that I was building a new elevator
for my RV-6, mentioned this method of riveting. Thanks to both of you, my
rivets turned out perfectly.
The square bar referred to in the above article is a 1/2" x 1/2" x 6" bar
with one end tapered down to about 1/4" high. Before you ask whether a
hammer will give you a quality rivit let me tell you that one of our local
T-18 builders built his airplane using 'pop-rivets' and hammer driven
rivets. It flys fine and looks great. I certainly wouldn't recommend using
a hammer more than necessary but it is a _cheap_ method; I like that.
This 'tip' earned me a Snap-on Tool Kit from EAA's Sport Aviation magazine.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: misc. stuff (please read) Plus: YASQ: How plumb does the |
jig need to
be?
>OK... Yet Another Stupid Question that I've been worrying about...
>Just how *exactly* plumb and level does the jig need to be? I mean,
>it's impossible to make it absolutely level... how much error is
>acceptable? As good as my carpenter's level can show it? Is an eighth
>of an inch difference in height over the length of the beam OK? A
>sixteenth? A 32nd?
That's a VERY good question. When I built my wing/empennage jig, I spent
*FAR* too much time getting things level and plumb.
For the empennage, you need a FLAT (but not necessarelly level) surface to
build the H.S. rear spar Other than that, the rest of the empannage jig
does not need to be level or plumb at all. INstead of trying to make the
two vertical members plumb, you simply draw a vertical line on the inner
faces of the vertical members. Therefore the vertical members could be WAY
off and you wouldn't care.
The horizontal member of the empennage jig needs to be only reasonable
level. After fabricating the H.S. rear spar, you mount five little
brackets to the horizontal surface of the jig. The hinge brackets (The
ones riveted to the H.S. rear spar) mount to these through the hing bolt
holes. You use a length of string to get this hinge line perfectly
straight and level. to make it level, just use some shims between the
horizontal member of the jig and the brackets.
Wing:
You want the little horizontal 'arms' to be as level as possible. It is
more important, however, to make sure that the vertical members of your
wing jig do not warp. Use Kiln-dried lumber. It costs only a few cents
more than the regular stuff.
How level is level? I have a carpenter's level and a Smartlevel. If my
carpenter's level says it's level, then the Smartlevel will show it to be
level within a few tenths of a degree. That's close enough.
>I've read about people using a water hose to level it...
I used such a water level to level my fuselage jig. For the wing or
empennage jig, however, it's more trouble that it's worth. Stick with a
carpenter's level.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
finishing kit on order
fuselage out of the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: misc. stuff (please read) |
>Anyway, I'm here to help, and so is Jerry. But I think it's the
>responsibility of builder/flyers like Jerry, Rob, Rusty, me and about 20
>others on this list to let the builders know when something does in fact
>set-off the BS alarm.
Well, said, Gary. I'm on this this list for one reason: Once upon a time
*I* was a newbie, and a lot of very helpful guys answered my questions.
I'm just returning the favor.
I just have *One* request, however: *PLEASE* everyone,when it's obvious
that a reply should be sent directly to the sender instead of the list,
*PLEASE* do so. I came from CompuServe a long time ago, so I can
understand that some follks may not realize some of the differences between
CompuServe Forums and an Internet e-mail list. I also understand that some
people's e-mail programs may not be set up to automatically reply correcly
(For the life of me, I have never been able to get Eudora Light to work
correctly in this regard.)
So, please make life easier for us old-timers :-)
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
finishing kit on order
fuselage out of the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
>Finn wrote:
>> Please read an RV construction manual. Van specifically mentions
>> someone using a scribe to mark aluminum as not acceptable.
>
>The reason being, it will remove alclad.
That's not the ONLY reason. The marks left by a buzz-scribe have a nice,
rounded profile. Markes made with a hand scribe (I'm talking about the
tool that looks like a small punch or awl) have a V-shaped profile, wil the
bottom of the V being very sharp. You DO NOT want to use one of these on
your airplane unless you later buff out the entire mark made by the scribe.
Such scribe marks are starting points for cracks.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
finishing kit on order
fuselage out of the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: yoke sizes for rivet squeezers |
Hobby Stevens wrote:
>I am in the process of buying tools to start on the RV6 tail that I received
>last week. My question -- as I intend to buy both hand and pneumatic rivet
>squeezers, what size yokes work best on a RV6? My inclination is to buy a
>2" & a 3", but I'm sure open for comments. Thanks in advance.
The best all around yoke to get is Avery's Longeron Yoke. Now that I have
it, all of my other yokes gather dust most of the time.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
finishing kit on order
fuselage out of the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
| Subject: | Re: Turbine Engine |
>>You wrote:
>>>
>>>Keep in mind that most of these APUs are not designed for continuous
>>power.
>>>You never see a BD5J flying to and from airshows. Theres a reason it's
>>
>>>trailered!
>>>
>>>Greg Bordelon
>>>greg(at)brokersys.com
>>
>>I live in Renton just a few block from Dave (Hammer) Harris who flies
>>the BD5-J and just the other day I asked him what the endurance of his
>>plane was when he was going up for some practice. He told me the
>>endurance is about 1/2 hour. Also, the jet engine he flies is so
>>expensive I am sure he would not reduce its life by flying to/from
>>airshows.
>>
>>However, at Arlington I went to a forum on a 100 hp APU turboprop from
>>a CH-47 helicoptor. Its fuel consumption was much more acceptable.
>>Unfortunately, I have yet to see one in the 200 hp range for an RV.
>>Peter Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com
>>_______________________________________________________________
>>
Yes! You are absolutely right: VerrrrY expensive, contrary to these
engines we have! While fuel consumption is high, using truck diesel ,
off road, (No road taxes) could cut the cost tremendouslY! We HAVE
the 200 HP range!: 225HP, but the gearbox is so much more robust, it
may actually be more!
bill nash
AIRCRAFT REMAUNUFACTURING
1291 E. VISTA WAY, #150
VISTA, CA. 92084 (619) 749 0239 FAX: 749 6384
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Shortening the Flap Handle |
I'm working on the installation of the flap handle in my -6a, and
I'm tempted to shorten it a little bit. I've seen in some newsletters
where other builders have done this. I searched the RV archives web
site (Thanks Matt!!), but I am unable to find any messages either pro
or con on this subject. If any of you have any knowledge on this,
please feel free to share it!
Thanks,
Mark LaBoyteaux
-6a working cabin items
tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: yoke sizes for rivet squeezers |
> I am just finishing the empennage. Unless you WANT to spend the mony, there
> is no need for a pneumatic squeezer. The Avery hand tool was perfect for the
> kit. Don't kow about wings and fuse, but you could wait.
Note that a pneumatic squeezer is useful when setting the rivets in the wing
spar. But there are other methods, or you can rent one from Van's. I'm told
the wait list is about 6 weeks (not generally a problem), and the cost is $20.
Otherwise, a 1.5" throat gets to a bunch of rivets, but I sure had enough
where a deeper throat would have been nice.
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Vertical Fin Strobe-Solution! |
| From: | Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)indirect.com> |
For those who oppose vertical fin mounted strobes due to reflected glare
at night in IMC conditions, I have a novel solution.
Turn it off. If you're in a cloud, nobody can see your strobe anyway.
Mike Kukulski (kukulski(at)indirect.com)
RV-4 N96MK, finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
Pay heed to Vans, there is no need to scribe on aluminium. As a person with
a background in aircraft engineering I can assure you - scribe marks can
cause component failure at a later date.
Try scribing a line on a piece of scrap - then try buffing it out. You will
be suprised how deep you will have to go.
Regards
Mike Parkinson
RV6 - tailplane
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-List: misc. stuff
HP-Singapore,mimegw1
Date: 22/7/96 12:04 PM
>Finn wrote:
>> Please read an RV construction manual. Van specifically mentions
>> someone using a scribe to mark aluminum as not acceptable.
>
>The reason being, it will remove alclad.
That's not the ONLY reason. The marks left by a buzz-scribe have a nice,
rounded profile. Markes made with a hand scribe (I'm talking about the
tool that looks like a small punch or awl) have a V-shaped profile, wil the
bottom of the V being very sharp. You DO NOT want to use one of these on
your airplane unless you later buff out the entire mark made by the scribe.
Such scribe marks are starting points for cracks.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
finishing kit on order
fuselage out of the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net> |
| Subject: | Tatco rivet squeezers |
Help!
I've hit a wall. I'm ready to dimple my rear spar flanges with my Tatco
rivet squeezer, and I can't figure out how to get the dimple dies in the
darned thing! There were no instructions, and once I put one in, male or
female, there's not enough room to insert the other one!!
If anyone else out there is bored enough to check his e-mail and help me
out of this snafu, please do so. I hate having time and nothing to do!
Thanks.
--Don McNamara, Nugget
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark D Hiatt" <OttoPilot_MSN(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Banquet at Oshkosh |
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Phil Forrest
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 1996 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Banquet at Oshkosh
>
>The following are confirmed for the banquet Sunday 7PM 8-4-96:
>
Is there any way to get on a "maybe" list for this? I'll be there, but
don't know what my plans for Sunday evening may be.
Mark D Hiatt
OttoPilot_MSN(at)msn.com
Aviation Forum Manager,
The Microsoft Network
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rion Bourgeois <RION(at)postoffice.worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tatco rivet squeezers |
>Help!
>
>I've hit a wall. I'm ready to dimple my rear spar flanges with my Tatco
>rivet squeezer, and I can't figure out how to get the dimple dies in the
>darned thing! There were no instructions, and once I put one in, male or
>female, there's not enough room to insert the other one!!
>
>If anyone else out there is bored enough to check his e-mail and help me
>out of this snafu, please do so. I hate having time and nothing to do!
>
>Thanks.
>
>--Don McNamara, Nugget
Don
On mine, the piston screws up and down. Good luck. Rion.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Tatco rivet squeezers |
You wrote:
>
>Help!
>
>I've hit a wall. I'm ready to dimple my rear spar flanges with my Tatco
>rivet squeezer, and I can't figure out how to get the dimple dies in the
>darned thing! There were no instructions, and once I put one in, male or
>female, there's not enough room to insert the other one!!
>
>If anyone else out there is bored enough to check his e-mail and help me
>out of this snafu, please do so. I hate having time and nothing to do!
>
>Thanks.
>
>--Don McNamara, Nugget
>
Hi Don,
Hey, we all have to learn about each tool some way. Notice that when you
squeeze the handles together, there is a hole in the plunger that rises
up from the handle of the squeezer. If you put a small nail or old drill
bit in this hole you can rotate the plunger (screw it in or screw it out).
This increases or decreases the distance between the dies (or rivet sets,
depending on what you are doing with the squeezer).
Note that you will usually have to slide the set or die up to uncover the
hole. I like to adjust the squeezer when dimpling to have the handles
about 1/2 inch apart when the dimple is completed. Part of becoming
experienced with a squeezer is knowing how far apart to put the rivet
sets when squeezing rivets.
I strongly, strongly recommend that you practice setting rivets with some
scrap before you use the squeezer on the real thing. Don, you will come
to know and love your Tatco before you finish the 13,000 to 16,000 rivets
that are in the plane!
Hope this makes sense. If not and you want to email me directly, please
feel free to do so.
Best regards,
Bill
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Tatco rivet squeezers |
> I've hit a wall. I'm ready to dimple my rear spar flanges with my Tatco
> rivet squeezer, and I can't figure out how to get the dimple dies in the
> darned thing! There were no instructions, and once I put one in, male or
> female, there's not enough room to insert the other one!!
I have the Avery squeezer, but I bet it's the same. The plunger screws in
and out so that the distance between the plunger and the yoke when the handles
are squeezed fully together is variable. This allows you to set different
length rivets reliably. Once you insert the dimple dies, you turn the plunger
until it's probably still a bit long for the rivet, and squeeze one rivet.
Check the length -- it should be under-squeezed -- and adjust the plunger.
Repeat as necessary so that the rivet is perfectly squeezed just as the handles
touch. This way, you can reliably set all the other rivets of the same length.
Don't sneak up too slowly on the right setting or you may work harden the
rivet.
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shortening the Flap Handle |
Mark; I shortened the handle on my flap actuator (it's in a 6). I cut off
about 5-6 inches, so that it would go all the way down to the flat part
behind the angled up part of the seat. It was a mistake! Maybe not for
all, but it turned out that the leverage required to lift up to take
pressure off of the button, to push in the button, and then let the handle
down, caused a nerve pressure in my rt shoulder. Results- two hand
operation. Once done when my wife was in there, she said she would buy me
the elec actuator rather than go through those contortions again. I now have
the elec. kit installed.
John D
> I'm working on the installation of the flap handle in my -6a, and
>I'm tempted to shorten it a little bit. I've seen in some newsletters
>where other builders have done this. I searched the RV archives web
>site (Thanks Matt!!), but I am unable to find any messages either pro
>or con on this subject. If any of you have any knowledge on this,
>please feel free to share it!
>
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: yoke sizes for rivet squeezers |
>> I am just finishing the empennage. Unless you WANT to spend the mony, there
>> is no need for a pneumatic squeezer. The Avery hand tool was perfect for the
>> kit. Don't kow about wings and fuse, but you could wait.
>
>Note that a pneumatic squeezer is useful when setting the rivets in the wing
>spar. But there are other methods, or you can rent one from Van's. I'm told
>the wait list is about 6 weeks (not generally a problem), and the cost is $20.
>Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
The pneumatic squeezer is much faster and easier to use, IMO. I'd pay an
extra $250 or so and buy the pneumatic. Of course, for setting the 3/16"
rivets in the spar, a really big squeezer is needed. The smaller squeezers
that Avery and others sell do not have the capacity to squeeze the #6
rivets. I rented Van's large squeezer to do my first set of spars. I used
the Avery hand dimpling/rivet tool to set the #6 rivets on my second set of
spars. I think I'll use the Avery tool on the next set of spars, as well.
(No, I didn't goof up---this is my second RV.) Bob Skinner BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Shortening the Flap Handle |
> I'm working on the installation of the flap handle in my -6a, and
>I'm tempted to shorten it a little bit. I've seen in some newsletters
>where other builders have done this. I searched the RV archives web
>site (Thanks Matt!!), but I am unable to find any messages either pro
>or con on this subject. If any of you have any knowledge on this,
>please feel free to share it!
>
> Thanks,
> Mark LaBoyteaux
Mark, I shortened my flap handle and it has worked out OK. I shortened it
enough that the handle lies parallel to the floor when retracted.
Sometimes, when I have a passenger, the last notch of flaps is somewhat
harder to put on and I have to reach across with my left arm to help. When
I'm by myself, I can get a little better leverage and the last notch is much
easier. Actually, I've gotten in the habit of not using the last notch of
flaps unless I'm high. It seems that the last notch is almost all drag and
no additional lift. (How about it, flying RVers---agree or disagree?)
I'm going to put the electric flap on the RV I'm building now. This frees
up some space between the seats, will eliminate drafts of cold air coming
forward through the slots cut in the 605 bulkhead where the flap arms pass
through and will be kinder to my "creaky" body parts. Bob Skinner RV-6
BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marc LeFevre <rv8(at)hpbs2412.boi.hp.com> |
Listers:
First off, anyone responding is urged to do so privately since
this question pertains to priming.
I know that fisheye is bad cosmetically when you're painting
the exterior of your plane, but is it bad from an internal
priming, corrosion control point of view? I get it sometimes
and haven't found the source (silicones of some sort I assume.)
Does it affect the adhesion of the primer to the aluminum?
Also, what is the desired surface finish after alumiprep? I
always get a mottled finish with light and dark areas. It seems
to follow where the bubbles wind up after the initial foaming
action. I know the water should sheet off rather than bead.
It that the main characteristic that tells you you're done?
Thanks for the help
Marc LeFevre
rv8(at)hpbs2412.boi.hp.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Turbine Engine |
I think that has something to do with the 20 minute fuel supply the BD can carry.
There aren't that many airports that serv fuel these days. Picturing a X-country
flight in one of those thing certianly lends new meaning to the term
"airport-hopping". ;-)
Chris
cruble(at)cisco.com
>
> Keep in mind that most of these APUs are not designed for continuous power.
> You never see a BD5J flying to and from airshows. Theres a reason it's
> trailered!
>
> Greg Bordelon
> greg(at)brokersys.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
| Subject: | yoke sizes for rivet squeezers |
RV>I am in the process of buying tools to start on the RV6 tail that I received
RV>last week. My question -- as I intend to buy both hand and pneumatic rivet
RV>squeezers, what size yokes work best on a RV6? My inclination is to buy a
RV>2" & a 3", but I'm sure open for comments. Thanks in advance.
RV>Hobby Stevens
RV>RV6 SER#24818 N41HS(reserved)
RV>sarast(at)camalott.com
The used pneumatic squeezer I bought came with a 1-1/2" yoke and the new
hand squeezer I bought from Avery came with a 3" yoke. So far, this
combination has worked well, but I'm not even finished with the
empennage kit yet, so I can't say how it'll work out for the entire
plane. Whatever you do, make sure your pneumatic and hand squeezer yokes
are interchangeable. It'd be a shame to have to buy two yokes in every
size!
Best regards,
Rod Woodard
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
RV-8, #80033
One coat of paint on the garage floor--two more weeks before building
resumes!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: yoke sizes for rivet squeezers |
<199607211757.MAA10832(at)camalott.com>
| From: | Jack Abell <abell(at)rand.org> |
Hobby,
The replies you've received so far to your question about yoke sizes have
been unusually heterogeneous, to say the least. I built most of my
empennage with hand squeezers only, then bought a pneumatic squeezer and
thought I'd died and gone to heaven. I would no longer be without it.
I have three yokes for mine, but use only two of them about 98 percent of
the time, a standard 4-inch that I use most of the time and a no-hole 4-inch
for tight places. I recall a couple of places I could have used the
longeron yoke, too. The problem is, pretty soon you wind up with as much
invested in yokes as in the squeezer.
I wouldn't give up my 4-inch yokes for anything.
If you're not confused by now, it's not for lack of trying.
Jack Abell
RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JIM SCHMIDT <JIM.SCHMIDT(at)mail.mei.com> |
| Subject: | T607 & 608 -Reply |
Rick,
Mine did that also by about 1/16 to an 1/8 of and inch. Just cut a that
portion off. creating a flat at that spot on the cover. There should still be
plenty of gasket material left to form a good seal. Mine did.
>>> Rick Osgood
07/20/96 08:20pm >>>
I cut out the tank access plate and ring for my 6A tanks today and noticed
that
the ring
rides up on the indent above the large lightning hole. I looked at drawing
#18
and they show the ring as being below this ridge. I checked the ring
diameter
inside and out and the rib size itself. All are correct.
Am I missing something here or when all is sealed will it work out.
Thanks in advance for any input
Rick
74774.54(at)Compuserve.com (one of those guys)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Fin Strobe-Solution! |
>>For those who oppose vertical fin mounted strobes due to reflected glare
>>at night in IMC conditions, I have a novel solution.
>>
>>Turn it off. If you're in a cloud, nobody can see your strobe anyway.
>>
>>Mike Kukulski (kukulski(at)indirect.com)
>>RV-4 N96MK, finishing kit
>>
Yes, thats one solution, (and the best, due to problems of vertigo..)
However, another solution is copied from factory planes: a small
shield is fabricated to shade the are you don't want strobe light.
CArefully done, it can be tailored to stop ligh from entering the
cockpit. Even a small paint job on the strobe glass should work!
Also, mounting the strobe as far aft on the verticle fin would be
better than toward the front for obvious reasons.
My personal perference for being seen as cheaply as possible would be
to follow the airliners lead and mount hi-intensity lights in the
horizontal stab to show the verticle fin at night. If you've watched
airliners with this set-up, you've noticed how visable that can be...
bill nash
AIRCRAFT REMAUNUFACTURING
1291 E. VISTA WAY, #150
VISTA, CA. 92084 (619) 749 0239 FAX: 749 6384
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)cris.com> |
aol.com!Bcg007(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> OK, I'm stuck--
>
> Working on the RV6 rudder, trying to dimple the end ribs at the tips. They
> are VERY narrow as you know. So how do people do it? My squeezer won't fit,
> I tried a pop rivet dimpler without success---what's the trick?
>
> Jon SchollJon,
I used a pop-rivit dimpler with one side ground down to a flat close to
the female portion of the die. You sacrafice a die, but it works fine.
Ed Cole
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
> Try the Vise Grip dimpling tool. It works when everything else is too
> thick.
The vise grip dimpler is great (saved me in a lot of instances) but only
if the holes are close to an edge. For holes farther from the edge, the
pop rivet dimpler should work (worked for me in that area). I am
wondering why that didn't work for you? Please explain what the problem
was with using that.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
Editor, Home Wing Newsletter
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeffery Lorimor <x1lorimo(at)exnet.iastate.edu> |
Iowa based RV-6 slider for sale. 200 hrs on airframe; 700 hrs on 150 hp
Lycoming, 1st major (with logs). Nav lights, strobes, panel mounted GPS,
mode C. Oshkosh workmanship award & North Central EAA Grand Champion.
Always hangared. $58,000.
call 515/432-5709
or 515/432-3660
Folks- this is not my airplane, but I will attest that it's a very good one.
If you want to respond to me directly via e-mail, I will pass the message
on. (The e-mail address is x1lorimor(at)exnet.iastate.edu Thats "ex-L", not
"ex-one" in the address.
Jeff Lorimor
Putting RV-6 fusalage in jig
Boone, IA
x1lorimo(at)exnet.iastate.edu (...that's x-one, not x-ell)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: yoke sizes for rivet squeezers |
> > I am just finishing the empennage. Unless you WANT to spend the mony, there
> > is no need for a pneumatic squeezer. The Avery hand tool was perfect for the
> > kit. Don't kow about wings and fuse, but you could wait.
There is no NEED for the pneumatic squeezer EVER. But I still recommend
getting one if you can spend the $$. It really is nice to have. And an
unexpected benefit I found was that having both a pneumatic and a hand
squeezer on hand I save a lot of time changing yokes and dies.
> Note that a pneumatic squeezer is useful when setting the rivets in the wing
> spar. But there are other methods, or you can rent one from Van's. I'm told
> the wait list is about 6 weeks (not generally a problem), and the cost is $20.
No, I _think_ we're talking here about the pneumatic that Avery and
Cleveland sell, which won't do wing spar rivets. The one that Van's
rents is the extra-big one that's hardly ever worth purchasing.
My recommendation would be for a 2" or 2.5" yoke as your primary yoke --
those are good all around yokes that aren't too big to get in the way
most places. And as your second one, I would recommend one of the
specialty yokes. Either the "thin nose" rivet squeezer only yoke (no
hole in the top for a dimple die), or the "flange nose" -- (that may be
the one someone else called a "longeron" yoke" -- has an offset on the
top of the 'C'). I would only get a 3 or 4" deep throat one as a 3rd or
4th yoke. Most places where you'd use that you can get to easily enough
with a gun or avery arbor, while the specialty yokes help when it's
tough to do things any other way.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
Editor, Home Wing Newsletter
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
> I cut out the tank access plate and ring for my 6A tanks today and noticed that
> the ring
> rides up on the indent above the large lightning hole.
You need to flatten the top of the ring to clear the bump. Pretty much every
RV fuel tank I've seen is this way.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
Editor, Home Wing Newsletter
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
| Subject: | Re: yoke sizes for rivet squeezers |
RV>The pneumatic squeezer is much faster and easier to use, IMO. I'd pay an
RV>extra $250 or so and buy the pneumatic. Of course, for setting the 3/16"
RV>rivets in the spar, a really big squeezer is needed. ..... >>stuff cut<<<
RV>(No, I didn't goof up---this is my second RV.) Bob Skinner BSkinner(at)ltec.net
I bought both a _used_ pneumatic and the Avery hand squeezer. Used
pneumatic squeezers can be had for about $250. Money well spent, if
you're asking me.
Rod Woodard
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
RV-8, #80033
________________________________________________________________________________
> You wrote:
> >
> >Strobe at the top of the vert fin is not a good idea. The flash at
> night is
> >very distracting. I have flown in an RV-4 with such an arrangement and
> it is
> >not good.
>
> That's why I think the RUDDER tip is ideal - the vert stab tip ought to
> shade the canopy area.
>
> Finn
Except for the weight aft of the hingeline, which can agrivate rudder
flutter. Note that the RV-8 is a bit faster than previous RVs, and
Van is counterbalancing the rudder.
Hank Eilts
eilts(at)ti.com
RV-6, building jigs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeffery Lorimor <x1lorimo(at)exnet.iastate.edu> |
| Subject: | RV-6 for sale correction |
sorry to clutter up your mailboxes, but I need to correct my address. I
said it backwards in the for sale posting. It's actually ex-one, NOT ex-L
for the address x1lorimor(at)exnet.iastate.edu
--***********************
Jeffery Lorimor
Extension Animal Waste Management Specialist
203 Davidson Hall, ISU
Ames, IA 50011
E-mail x1lorimo(at)exnet.iastate.edu
check our server at www.ae.iastate.edu
Phone 515/294-9806
FAX 515/294-9973
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Acid etch (was misc. stuff) |
Pat,
I believe it depends what type of marks you are talking about. The
blue manufacturers marking on the aluminum sheets seem to use some sort of
epoxy ink, and yes, these marks do remain behind after etching. If they
are on that well, then adhesion is obviously not a problem .... :^)
The removal of Sharpie marks is a different issue. I always apply
my acid etch with red ScotchBrite pads to ensure uniformity, and gain a
little extra adhesion (and cleaning effect) for the primer coat. In this
case, removal of Sharpie pen marks is a good indicator of good cleaning.
Using ScotchBrite pads ensures a uniform surface, and I do NOT
exceed the acid etch manufacturer's dwell time. I also use the minimum
strength etch since we are usually working with "new" aluminum.
I'm not sure if I agree with the "Grease and oil are quickly
removed by etching" statement below, since the detergent content of acid
etch is pretty minimal. As other RV-listers have reported, the plastic
films on the new skins from Vans seem to leave behind some sort of surface
contamination. For these skins, I would degrease first with a detergent
(409, BonAmi or similar) used with a red ScotchBrite pad. My 'old' kit did
not have any protective film ...
I agree with your statement about seeing the aluminum grain through
the primer film ... the MIL-specs. (MIL-7179) only requires a minimum dry
film thickness of 1.2 mils, which is semi-transparent. Note that this
number is for interior parts that are not top-coated, the primer thickness
for under a topcoat is only 0.6 mils .. really thin ....
Note that these extra steps are quite minimal, and don't take much
extra time once you have set up for working with chemicals -- eye
protection, rubber gloves, old clothes with long sleeves, etc.
... Gil (the ScotchBrite user) Alexander
RV6A, #20710
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
>Gil Alexander wrote:
>> If your cleaning process does not remove the Sharpie pen marks,
>> then I doubt that you are cleaning the aluminum properly. Even DuPont
>> recommends an etch/alodine process under VeriPrime when it is used on
>> aircraft, and the other self-etch primers should have a solvent wipe/clean
>> before use since they ALL call for a grease/oil-free surface. So just
>> stamp those parts and then you won't lose track of which part is which
>> during any cleaning/etching/priming processes.
>
>I just checked with my painter (had to pick up my parts anyway) and he
>said that it
>is not necessary to etch until all marks are gone. He contracts to several
>maintenance organizations repairing such things as cargo 727s, so I tend
>to trust
>his opinion. Grease and oil are quickly removed by etching; Sharpie ink
>takes a
>little longer. Then, if a light primer coat is given, the markings may
>still be
>visible. Even when my marks are gone, I can usually see the original grain
>markings on the skins. If not, I would suspect that too much primer is
>being used
>- you only want a corrosion barrier, not an opaque coat. Following the
>directions
>on the etching fluid I use for small parts, they are not exposed to the
>solution
>long enough to remove most markings; I have not been inclined to extend the
>exposure contrary to the manufacturer's instructions.
>
>PatK - RV-6A - Left tank attached to spar; LE parts back from priming
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | thayer(at)sirius.com (Thayer Syme) |
| Subject: | Re: Shortening the Flap Handle |
>Mark; I shortened the handle on my flap actuator (it's in a 6). I cut off
>about 5-6 inches, so that it would go all the way down to the flat part
>behind the angled up part of the seat. It was a mistake!
(lots snipped)
>Results- -my wife said she would buy me the elec actuator.
>John D
Carefull editing would indicate shortening the handle was (other than the
weight gain) a rousing success. :-)
Thayer Syme
San Francisco
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
| Subject: | Turbine Engine - 2 |
I was wrong and I apologize to those of you I mis-informed.......Greg
> Keep in mind that most of these APUs are not designed for continuous power.
> You never see a BD5J flying to and from airshows. Theres a reason it's
> trailered!
>
> Greg Bordelon
> greg(at)brokersys.com
________________________________________________________________________________
After getting a couple of comments like yours, I went back to the pop rivet
dimpler. It took some moderate pressure to get the the nail through the hole
because the rib flange is in the way (actually used a smaller dia. nail than
Avery supplies). I eventually did it. It worked fine.
Jon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Davis" <jdavis1(at)ford.com> |
I am currently building my HS and have been doing most of my priming outside.
I live in Michigan and plan to build thru the winter. Does anyone have a good
design for an indoor spray booth with vent fan that can safely be used in a
basement??? I would assume that the fan needs to be explosion proof?
--
Jeffrey S. Davis
Chassis Technical Specialist
Ford Motor Company
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: yoke sizes for rivet squeezers |
>I bought both a _used_ pneumatic and the Avery hand squeezer. Used
>pneumatic squeezers can be had for about $250. Money well spent, if
>you're asking me.
>
>Rod Woodard
>RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
>RV-8, #80033
Rod, I thought I bought the last used squeezer:) Others on the list would
probably be interested in knowing where you got yours. You bet. $250 is
money well spent.
Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | -6 sliding canopy call for help |
I am just starting on the sliding canopy frames for my -6. What a can of
worms, I think. Or perhaps I am making this too hard. Since I have numerous
questions, would someone who has done this recently please send me their
phone number and a time I can call them?
Bruce Patton
BPATTONSOA(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
Randall Henderson wrote:
>
> > I cut out the tank access plate and ring for my 6A tanks today and noticed
that
> > the ring
> > rides up on the indent above the large lightning hole.
>
> You need to flatten the top of the ring to clear the bump. Pretty much every
> RV fuel tank I've seen is this way.
>
> Randall Henderson, RV-6
> Editor, Home Wing Newsletter
> http://www.edt.com/homewing
> randall(at)edt.comThanks Randall... I will look again at mine but if I remember
correctly
the top of the access plate would require me to cut off about 1/2 inch or
more. This would also cut off one of the holes to mount the plate. I
checked and the diameter is according to plans #18. Unless I have
forgotten what diameter means I am confused. I measure across the widest
part of the plate and it is 6 3/4 (or per plan. I am at work now).
Any other thoughts???
Thanks
rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us (work e-mail)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elon_Ormsby <e671275(at)popsicle.llnl.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting inside |
you wrote:
>I am currently building my HS and have been doing most of my priming outside.
> I live in Michigan and plan to build thru the winter. Does anyone have a good
>design for an indoor spray booth with vent fan that can safely be used in a
>basement??? I would assume that the fan needs to be explosion proof?
>Jeffrey S. Davis
Jeff it is a good thing that you are looking at all of the safety factors.
However, if you are concerned about an explosion proof motor you must look
at all other possible sources of IGNITION. Eg. that hot filament in the
light bulb when you accidently break it (paint booths have unbreakable
explosion proof light covers), the pilot light in your clothes dryer, arcing
from your hand drill. the compressor motor kicking on, dropping a tool
(explosion proof hand tools are brass - they don't spark when dropped), and
static grounding of your spray line. Obviously, this thing could get
ridiculous. It is far better to design your environment with enough
through-pu t (CFM of fresh air) so explosive concentrations do not build
up in the first place. Search the archives - there has been a few posting
on this around December & January.
Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)cris.com> |
| Subject: | Left Elevator/ Trim Tab |
For those of you working on the left elevator and trim tab and don=92t ha=
ve=20
the pre-punched kit, I have some tips to offer that may save you a few=20
hours of building time and grief. First, making ribs for the trim tab=20
and elevator was pretty easy using a $20.00 bench top brake from Harbor=20
Freight. I found that if you measured the width of the opening on the top=
=20
and bottom of were you want the rib and subtract 3/32=94 for the two ben=
ds=20
(using .032 aluminum) the ribs come out perfect. I used 5/8=94 for the=20
flange width and fitted the ribs 1=94 from the trailing edge.
The real time saver, if you ordered the electric trim option, is to use=
=20
two pieces that come from the pre-punched kit. Order E-615PP and E-616PP=
=20
from Van=92s for $4.00 each. These are the access cover and stiffener=20
plate/rib. They are cutout, pre-punched ,and ready to install. Once you=20
drill and cleco the stiffener in, cleco the access plate to the outside=20
of the skin and trace the outline for the cutout. Everything lines up=20
nicely and take a lot less time than the kit that Van=92s ships with the=20
electric trim option. I got the idea for this after seeing a friend=92s=20
pre-punched skins. If you want more details, email me directly at=20
emcole(at)concentric.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
>
> >Thanks Randall... I will look again at mine but if I remember correctly
> the top of the access plate would require me to cut off about 1/2 inch or
> more. This would also cut off one of the holes to mount the plate. I
> checked and the diameter is according to plans #18. Unless I have
> forgotten what diameter means I am confused. I measure across the widest
> part of the plate and it is 6 3/4 (or per plan. I am at work now).
This was a while ago, but as I recall, the main thing is to cut the hole
in the rib in the right place. If it is offset too much one way or the
other then you'll need to fix it somehow.... I think when I did it I
used the plans for "reference" but made sure the edge of the hole wasn't
too close to the bump (or the flange). I do remember I made more than
one set of access covers and maybe even access rings before I got it
right.
I don't know if this helps much, basically what I'm saying is that it
did seem to me too that there wasn't quite the required room so I messed
around with it until it fit. One thing I would NOT try to do is to
flatten that bump in the rib down, since it has to be flat against the
gasket. But you may need to get another rib and/or some .040 or new
rings and/or cover plates if you can't make it work the way it is now.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
Editor, Home Wing Newsletter
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: Shortening the Flap Handle |
Mark LaBoyteaux wrote:
> I'm working on the installation of the flap handle in my -6a, and
>I'm tempted to shorten it a little bit.
i recall this being discussed in an issue of RVAtor. I don't recall there
being any problems with shortening it.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
finishing kit on order
fuselage out of the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Yablon <brian(at)lanart.com> |
| Subject: | Pneumatic Tool Source... |
Re: squeezers...
I bought all my air tools, yokes, set holders, etc. from Jerry at
Action Air Parts. He sells used but refurbished pneumatic tools, and
he will save you a BUNDLE over the new prices.
Case in point: For $250, I got a Chicago Pneumatic 214-C tandem
squeezer. This baby has a double barrel, and is capable of 6000
pounds of compression (as opposed to 3000 from normal 214-style
squeezers. I am told this is ample to set #6 rivets, although I have
not tried it yet. His used yokes are .5 to .75 times the cost
of new ones, and they come with set holders. I have a 2.5" close
quarters yoke and a funky 4" gap yoke with an extra long set holder.
This will work well with the wing spar when I get to it.
I also bought an Ingersol Rand drill for $45, and a CP 3x rivet gun
($150). These tools are used, look a little beat on, but still run in
Cadillac fashion. I am totally satisfied with the stuff I've bought.
Call Jerry at 810-364-5885 or see him at Oshkosh. Either way, tell
him hi for me.
Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com
RV-6A #24751
Skinning HS...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: -6 sliding canopy call for help |
There are lots of us building sliding canopies, please post to the list,
beats talking about tax and turbines.
>I am just starting on the sliding canopy frames for my -6. What a can of
>worms, I think. Or perhaps I am making this too hard. Since I have numerous
>questions, would someone who has done this recently please send me their
>phone number and a time I can call them?
>
>Bruce Patton
>BPATTONSOA(at)AOL.COM
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Gray <klgray(at)bihs.net> |
| Subject: | Howard's aircraft parts |
This is a report on Howard's rv parts, that you see in trade-a-plane.
He advertises leg fairings, and new wing tips. I saw the leg fairings on
an other plane and like them.
I sent them a check about 4 months ago and he said it will be out in 2
months. Well I have call them every week and half for the last two
months and they told me they are ready to be shipped and yet I have not
seen them. Each time I call them, they say it will be shipped tommorrow,
but again no show.
Watch out ordering from Howard's aircraft. Thier quality is good,
service is bad and I might be out $190.00, but I will continue to call
them!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
Rick Osgood wrote:
>
> Randall Henderson wrote:
> >
> > > I cut out the tank access plate and ring for my 6A tanks today and noticed
that
> > > the ring
> > > rides up on the indent above the large lightning hole.
> >
> > You need to flatten the top of the ring to clear the bump. Pretty much every
> > RV fuel tank I've seen is this way.
> >
> > Randall Henderson, RV-6
> > Editor, Home Wing Newsletter
> > http://www.edt.com/homewing
> > randall(at)edt.comThanks Randall... I will look again at mine but if I remember
correctly
> the top of the access plate would require me to cut off about 1/2 inch or
> more. This would also cut off one of the holes to mount the plate. I
> checked and the diameter is according to plans #18. Unless I have
> forgotten what diameter means I am confused. I measure across the widest
> part of the plate and it is 6 3/4 (or per plan. I am at work now).
>
> Any other thoughts???
>
> Thanks
> rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us (work e-mail)
Just checked my plans - Unless you have a different revision (mine is
18a original), 1/2" is too much. It does not give the dimension in that
mannor; instead it shows that the cut should be perpendicular to a
radius line and extend 1 1/8" from the radius line to the edge. I got
the ring and plate for my right tank and used them to compare (place
ring behind plate and measured) and the depth came to about 1/4".
Also, turn the plate 15 degrees either direction, which should move the
hole out of danger. Again, this is with plan sheet 18a original
revision and I have the precut plate and ring. As the ad says, your
results may vary...
PatK - RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tatco rivet squeezersI |
Don: Are you by chance using the dies from Aircraft Tool Supply Co.?? I
seem to recall having some of their dies when I first started 2 yrs ago which
were indeed too thick to fit into the Tatco at the same time. Maybe it was
the other way around; I ordered a squeezer from ATS that I promptly sent
back- poor workmanship and maybe it was the Avery dies that wouldn't fit in
its narrow throat. I forget which way the problem went but distinctly recall
having on hand a squeezer and dies which were incompatible in throat depth no
matter how you adjusted the anvil height, as has been suggested. It can
happen. Maybe this is your situation. The bottom line is that the Tatco and
the better dies are quite compatible. (And only a newbie would order a tool
from ATS!)
Bill Boyd
RV-6A wiring MAC trims and nav/comms
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Anyone have a profile for the bottom seat cushion on a -6 that fits the slope
of the seat pan and gives a desirable bucket contour on top? It seems like a
wedge of some sort might be needed on the bottom of the foam sandwich to make
everything come out right. What about the gap created when the seat back is
adjusted rearward for long-legged passengers? Does the seat back cushion
drop into this gap or does it just yawn open behind the old derriere?
Perhaps the entire bottom cushion moves back to snug against the seat back,
but wouldn't that leave the front edge of the seat unpadded? Conversely
should the bottom cushion hang over the front edge of the spar when the seat
back is in the forward most setting? I'm having a hard time visualizing how
all this is supposed to work. I guess I didn't ask enough questions at the
Frederick, MD builders' forum this spring... and no OSH for me this year
~:-(
What about sources and specs for fabric to cover the side walls, etc. I saw
some nice velour-looking stuff in some of the planes at Frederick. Sport
Aviation mentioned a GlasAir done in Finesse (imitation leather); anyone have
experience with this stuff? Comments appreciated.
Bill Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Jorgensen <rpjorgen(at)wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> |
I want to fly up to the RV factory to take a look at the place and to fly
the RV-6 before I place my order.
Does anyone have the longitude and latitude for the grass strip near the
factory?
thanks
*****************************************************************************
rick jorgensen
email address:rpjorgen(at)wheel.ucdavis.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sunset Airstrip |
Richard Jorgensen wrote:
>
> I want to fly up to the RV factory to take a look at the place and to fly
> the RV-6 before I place my order.
>
> Does anyone have the longitude and latitude for the grass strip near the
> factory?
>
> thanks
>
> *****************************************************************************
>
> rick jorgensen
> email address:rpjorgen(at)wheel.ucdavis.edu
Rick
Sunset Airstrip
North Plains, OR
Elev 207'
06/24 3050x200 turf
N45*35.5'
W 123*00.6'
Right hand traffic
Van's is on the east end of the strip
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) (Hillsboro, OR)
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bennett" <bennett(at)healey.com.au> |
Replies to the list please. Some of us are interested.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 engine on order
> Anyone have a profile for the bottom seat cushion on a -6 that fits the slope
> of the seat pan and gives a desirable bucket contour on top? It seems like a
> wedge of some sort might be needed on the bottom of the foam sandwich to make
> everything come out right. What about the gap created when the seat back is
> adjusted rearward for long-legged passengers? Does the seat back cushion
> drop into this gap or does it just yawn open behind the old derriere?
> Perhaps the entire bottom cushion moves back to snug against the seat back,
> but wouldn't that leave the front edge of the seat unpadded? Conversely
> should the bottom cushion hang over the front edge of the spar when the seat
> back is in the forward most setting? I'm having a hard time visualizing how
> all this is supposed to work. I guess I didn't ask enough questions at the
> Frederick, MD builders' forum this spring... and no OSH for me this year
> ~:-(
>
> What about sources and specs for fabric to cover the side walls, etc. I saw
> some nice velour-looking stuff in some of the planes at Frederick. Sport
> Aviation mentioned a GlasAir done in Finesse (imitation leather); anyone have
> experience with this stuff? Comments appreciated.
>
> Bill Boyd
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kpsmith(at)sprynet.com |
| Subject: | Re: misc. stuff (please read) Plus: YASQ: How plumb does |
the jig need to
be?
If you are worried about warp, use metal 2 x 4s. My
vertical members are each two such items back to back,
fastened to a 1 X 4 with a saw kerf to accept the little
flanges, Took a couple hours, less than 10 bucks and a hand
ful of 1" drywall screws. I used preformed brackets (Home
depot) to fastenthe verticals to the joists in the garage
ceiling and to the floor. Holes, bolts bedded in some epoxy
on the floor.
The horizontal member is a cedar 4 x 4, which warped but is
stable. Next time, more metal 2 X 4's with a nice wood face
on top. I used a boat building/lofting trick for marking
the horizontal center line: a coat of white flat paint and
a scribed center line. (I am not woried about the stress
riser in wood!) If it moves, more paint and another scribed
line will fix.
[~~~]
[___]
Ken Smith
rv6 empenage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Shortening the Flap Handle |
<< Mark; I shortened the handle on my flap actuator (it's in a 6). I cut off
about 5-6 inches, so that it would go all the way down to the flat part
behind the angled up part of the seat. It was a mistake! Maybe not for
all, but it turned out that the leverage required to lift up to take
pressure off of the button, to push in the button, and then let the handle
down, caused a nerve pressure in my rt shoulder. Results- two hand
operation. Once done when my wife was in there, she said she would buy me
the elec actuator rather than go through those contortions again. I now have
the elec. kit installed.
John D
> I'm working on the installation of the flap handle in my -6a, and
>I'm tempted to shorten it a little bit. I've seen in some newsletters
>where other builders have done this. I searched the RV archives web
>site (Thanks Matt!!), but I am unable to find any messages either pro
>or con on this subject. If any of you have any knowledge on this,
>please feel free to share it!
>
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
>>
I shortened the handle per the new instructions from Van after the kit was
delivered. The result was that the pull range of the handle still required
the handle to come up to my armpit. The forces, and angle of pull, resulted
in my arm always hurting, and the passenger moving his/her arm out of the way
all the time.
The result of two years of flying this way, was to resort to the electric
flaps. Best move I ever made! Now I have room between the seats for a chart
holder AND an armrest....And no sore shoulder.....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Howard's aircraft parts |
>Watch out ordering from Howard's aircraft. Thier quality is good,
>service is bad and I might be out $190.00, but I will continue to call
>them!
It's Harrold aircraft, and you need to talk to the Missus- she can get the
parts out for you. Jerry always says "Yes".
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sunset Airstrip |
Jerry Springer wrote:
>
> Richard Jorgensen wrote:
> >
> > I want to fly up to the RV factory to take a look at the place and to fly
> > the RV-6 before I place my order.
> >
> > Does anyone have the longitude and latitude for the grass strip near the
> > factory?
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > *****************************************************************************
> >
> > rick jorgensen
> > email address:rpjorgen(at)wheel.ucdavis.edu
>
> Rick
> Sunset Airstrip
> North Plains, OR
> Elev 207'
> 06/24 3050x200 turf
> N45*35.5'
> W 123*00.6'
> Right hand traffic
>
> Van's is on the east end of the strip
> --
> Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) (Hillsboro, OR)
> jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
Though, on an RVator's map of the world, it's actually N 0*00.0' and W 0*00.0'.
But, until we
can convince NOAA, I guess you better use Jerry's figures. ;)
PatK - RV-6A - Wiring and plumbing the lights and pitot in left wing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | FIRST FLIGHT C-FGIZ |
I am pleased to announce that RV6A C-FGIZ departed mother earth from
Canadian Forces Base Borden at 1700hrs on Sat July 20 and returned to
earth safely 20 minutes later.
Builder and wife are well!
Initial data shows about 1800fpm at 110mph climb and about 170mph at
2300rpm.
I'll post flight test data as it happens.
Thanks to this list for its help in the past.
Ken
RV6A Flying (Gee, I've waited 5 years to say that!!!!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shortening the Flap Handle |
The best option Van has is the electric flap kit, it makes the flap
handle sooo short! Sorry guys. :-)
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
Bill,
I f you would call (817-49-3280) or write with the colors you would like I
would be glad to send you some sample of the materials Becki and I us in our
seats and side wall kits for RV's.......George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike & Shirley Hiscock" <shiscock(at)fox.nstn.ca> |
| Subject: | F410A intall?help |
I'm installing F410A on my -4. It is the rearmost upper bulkhead for the
upper rear skin (the one that is in two parts seperated by about two
inches). I may have missed it in the drawing, but does this
bulkhead have to be attached to the upper longeron? Is it supposed to be
attached to upper longeron? If so how? Any suggestions.
Thanks in advance for your help.
mike hiscock
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Howard's aircraft parts |
I had the same problem with Howard, lots of promises and little action.
After about 10 calls, they eventually came through. It works, but if there
is any competition with service, you might keep the frustration factor low
by trading elsewhere, but I don't know where.
John D
>Watch out ordering from Howard's aircraft. Thier quality is good,
>service is bad and I might be out $190.00, but I will continue to call
>them!
>
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Bill; I'll try some of these.
>Anyone have a profile for the bottom seat cushion on a -6 that fits the
slope>of the seat pan and gives a desirable bucket contour on top? It seems
like a>wedge of some sort might be needed on the bottom of the foam sandwich
to make>everything come out right.
A wedge is needed, either separate or built on. D J Lauter. has a separate
wedge from the seat cushion.
> What about the gap created when the seat back is>adjusted rearward for
long-legged passengers? Does the seat back cushion>drop into this gap or
does it just yawn open behind the old derriere?> Perhaps the entire bottom
cushion moves back to snug against the seat back,>but wouldn't that leave
the front edge of the seat un padded? Conversely>should the bottom cushion
hang over the front edge of the spar when the seat>back is in the forward
most setting?
On mine, the depth (front to rear) of the seat is a compromise between the
two distances, all the way forward vs all the way back. The back cushion
goes all the way to the bottom of the seat, and the seat cushion rides fore
and aft based on the location of the metal back. Yes, the front of the seat
is over the front edge if the back is all the way forward, and just behind
the front edge when the back is in the rear most position. But, my cheeks
stay in the same position to my spine, regardless of how far the seat back
is from the rudder pedals, so no filler for this between the seat and the back.
>What about sources and specs for fabric to cover the side walls, etc. I
saw>some nice velour-looking stuff in some of the planes at Frederick.
SportAviation mentioned a GlasAir done in Finesse (imitation leather);
anyone have>experience with this stuff? Comments appreciated.
>
I used heavy upholstery material, but there are many choices out there that
will work. I later saw some at Walmart auto parts that would have been
perfect. I cut patterns of kraft paper, then transferred to the fabric and
cut. Used auto top spray contact glue. Invented 7 new swear words, but got
it done.
One bit of advice, I don't like any of the velcro. The stuff works good
until you get it in a real hot climate, then the glue that comes on it's
back turns to something like molasses, breaks contact if any stress and is
messy as all get out. Use upholstery snaps. Like at the top of the metal
seat back where a flap of fabric is folded over, etc.
One other thing. Test your fabric for humidity stability. The first I put
on was in very dry weather. When it got humid, there were some puckers
where the glue did not have full coverage. I then misted my fabric before
installing it. when dry it was very tight. Over about two feet, the
misting would cause the fabric to be about 1 1/2 inches longer!!!!
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
| Subject: | Used pneumatic squeezers |
RV>>I bought both a _used_ pneumatic and the Avery hand squeezer. Used
RV>>pneumatic squeezers can be had for about $250. Money well spent, if
RV>>you're asking me.
RV>>
RV>>Rod Woodard
RV>Rod, I thought I bought the last used squeezer:) Others on the list would
RV>probably be interested in knowing where you got yours. You bet. $250 is
RV>money well spent.
RV>Bob Skinner
I bought my used squeezer through Action Air Parts, Inc. 106 N. Airport
Drive, Port Huron, Michigan 48074. (810)364-5885. It is a Chicago
Pneumatic 214-C squeezer with a 1-1/2" yoke. This is the standard
squeezer that is compatible with the Avery hand squeezer. When I ordered
my Avery squeezer, I ordered a 3" yoke so I'd have some variety. Judging
from the recent posts, I'm starting to think I should have ordered the
longeron yoke with my Avery instead of the 3".
Hope this helps. Feel free to write me directly if I can provide any
more information.
Rod Woodard
Loveland, Colorado
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
RV-8, #80033
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
>>Anyone have a profile for the bottom seat cushion on a -6 that fits the slope
>>of the seat pan and gives a desirable bucket contour on top? It seems like a
>>wedge of some sort might be needed on the bottom of the foam sandwich to make
>>everything come out right. What about the gap created when the seat back is
>>adjusted rearward for long-legged passengers? Does the seat back cushion
>>drop into this gap or does it just yawn open behind the old derriere?
>> Perhaps the entire bottom cushion moves back to snug against the seat back,
>>but wouldn't that leave the front edge of the seat unpadded? Conversely
>>should the bottom cushion hang over the front edge of the spar when the seat
>>back is in the forward most setting? I'm having a hard time visualizing how
>>all this is supposed to work. I guess I didn't ask enough questions at the
>>Frederick, MD builders' forum this spring... and no OSH for me this year
>> ~:-(
>>
>>What about sources and specs for fabric to cover the side walls, etc. I saw
>>some nice velour-looking stuff in some of the planes at Frederick. Sport
>>Aviation mentioned a GlasAir done in Finesse (imitation leather); anyone have
>>experience with this stuff? Comments appreciated.
>>
>>Bill Boyd
>>
Lots of these questions answered in my free booklet: "How to
Soundproof the Light Aircraft". Materials, sources and methods, to not
only soundproof, but to install coverings. A text file of it is
available by email: just send a message to soundprf(at)pdsig.com
or you can have a hard copy with some illustrations: send your "snail
mail" address!
bill nash bjnash(at)pdsig.com
AIRCRAFT REMAUNUFACTURING
1291 E. VISTA WAY, #150
VISTA, CA. 92084 (619) 749 0239 FAX: 749 6384
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
I'm trying to fit the elevator control horn onto my right elevator and
can't seem to get a really flush fit on both the spar and the end rib.
I've done filing and sanding to fit, but I'm wondering, should these
pieces fit exactly together? It's kind of a dumb question but I was just
wondering if others needed to use small shims or had other ways of flushing
this assembly up.
Thanks in advance,
-Mike
mikeang(at)microsoft.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pilla(at)emmanuel.espinc.com (Michael Pilla) |
| Subject: | Re: F410A intall?help |
> I'm installing F410A on my -4. It is the rearmost upper bulkhead for the
> upper rear skin (the one that is in two parts seperated by about two
> inches). I may have missed it in the drawing, but does this
> bulkhead have to be attached to the upper longeron? Is it supposed to be
> attached to upper longeron? If so how? Any suggestions.
No, the F-410A, attaches to the turnedUP flange of the F-419(not sure of
the number, but it is the trapezoidal piece that goes on top of the longerons
just ahead of F-410 through F-412). The flange is turned UP and the F-410A
is riveted to that piece. I spaced my F-410A such that I had a good "cone"
between F-410A and F-407.
BTW, don't do as I did; I angled my F-407 enough backwards to get a much
better cone fit and, now, the canopy frame aft square tubing is too far
forward. Even if I put a thicker cushion/headrest, I'm worried that the
passenger's head will hit the tubing. So, it is "cut it out and get it
welded" time, sigh!
You would think that by this time in my construction, I would have learned
to think about what comes next :-)
Mike Pilla
pilla(at)espinc.com
RV4, #2866, attaching canopy frame to fuse - trying to widen forward portion
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A. Reichert" <reichera(at)clark.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FIRST FLIGHT C-FGIZ |
Congratulations, Ken!
- Alan
> I am pleased to announce that RV6A C-FGIZ departed mother earth from
> Canadian Forces Base Borden at 1700hrs on Sat July 20 and returned to
> earth safely 20 minutes later.
>
[...]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Sunset Airstrip |
> I want to fly up to the RV factory to take a look at the place and to fly
> the RV-6 before I place my order.
>
> Does anyone have the longitude and latitude for the grass strip near the
> factory?
For all the FAA info on ANY airport, check out:
http://www.cc.gatech.edu/db1/fly/airport-info.html
This is a really neat search engine for airport info. It has all the
info on all the public, private, glider, stol, etc. etc. that the FAA
knows about, including some that aren't on the charts (at the owners
request).
The identifier for Sunset is 1OR3. If you don't have web access I can
e-mail you an ASCII copy of the info.
Sunset is not a difficult strip but it is a little unusual, in that it
has a pretty good rise in the middle. It's plenty long and plenty wide
however. If you aren't accustomed to "unusual" grass strips you might
want to call Vans to get the lowdown.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
Editor, Home Wing Newsletter
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerald Hall <Jerald_Hall(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Nut for Low Fuel Warning Switch |
I am installing the low fuel level warning switch sold by Aircraft
Spruce and manufactured by The Madison Co. The switch comes with a
threaded body, but no nut to screw onto the body. I have tried all of
the local hardware stores, but have been unable to find a match.
Aircraft Spruce says they don't sell a nut to go with the switch and
calls to The Madison Co. have gone unanswered. What have the rest of
you done when installing this switch?
Jerald Hall
RV-6A, finishing the wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
Has anyone found an inexpensive source for Proseal. Aircraft Spruce
wants $37.00 a quart, Van's wants $44.00 a quart and Wicks didn't know
what I was talking about.
Thanks in advance
Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
> From owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com Tue Jul 23 12:17:14 1996
> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 13:04:20 -0700
> From: Rick Osgood <ccc.henn.tec.mn.us!Rick(at)matronics.com>
> X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I)
Check the latest issue of LPM, they give the Mfgs. Name and address.
Chris
>
> Has anyone found an inexpensive source for Proseal. Aircraft Spruce
> wants $37.00 a quart, Van's wants $44.00 a quart and Wicks didn't know
> what I was talking about.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)cris.com> |
| Subject: | Young Eagle Andy Hedin |
Fellow RV builders,=20
I don=92t know if this is appropriate to the list, but as most of us are=
=20
members of an EAA chapter who support the =93Young Eagles=94 programs, I =
hope=20
you won=92t mind.
On Saturday July 13th, I happened to meet a young boy at the Livermore,=20
CA. Airport while I was photographing a friend of mine who was checking=20
out in a Pitts S2B at Akro Sport Aviation. He was an extremely bright,=20
unassuming kid with a thirst for aviation. I caught him on video cranking=
=20
up Akro=92s =9137 Stearman for the pilot who was taking a passenger on a=
=20
sightseeing ride. The kid was full of knowledge and described his love=20
of this old airplane. He went on to ask me If I=92d heard of a twelve ye=
ar=20
old pilot who was going to fly from San Diego, CA. to Alaska. It didn=92=
t=20
dawn on me that it was he who was planning the flight as he looked to be=20
14 to 15 years old. He=92s a tall kid for 12, almost 6=92. I guess he wa=
s=20
trying to feel me out for an opinion so shortly after the Jessica=20
Dubroff tragedy.=20
Anyway, we talked off and on during the afternoon, and it turns out that=20
he has already got 150 hr. in his logbook! He hangs around the airport=20
and washes and waxes planes for flight money and money for his trip to=20
Alaska.
This morning , when I picked up the local newspaper ( San Jose Mercury),=20
there he was on the front page!=20
He is attempting the flight on August 5th and is not trying to set any=20
records, just make his dream flight.
He lost his sponsors that were lined up after Jessica=92s accident, but a=
=20
women in San Diego who heard of his goal anonymously sent him $6000 for=20
the trip as she flies to Ketchican, Alaska alot..=20
According to the newspaper article, the trip is from Livermore to Alaska.=
=20
The boy=92s name is Andy Hedin
and he is just what you picture an All American Young Eagle to be. His=20
flight is supposed to stop in Eureka, CA. and Seattle, WA along the way.
I thought it would be nice as a group of builders and EAA=92ers to donate=
=20
to his cause. I will volunteer to gather and deliver any checks, emails,=20
or letters of encouragement to him. If you decide to donate, make the=20
checks payable in his name (Andy Hedin). We need to hurry as Aug. 5 is=20
just around the corner.
I will make copies of the article for anyone interested. I really think=20
this kid typifies what all of us wish we were doing at 12 years of age. I=
=20
only wish I was that together at 12!
If anyone can think of anything else that would be more appropriate than=20
a money donation, I=92m open for suggestions, I never met this kid before=
=20
July 13, but his enthusiasm for flying was contagious enough for me to=20
take the time to write this.=20
Ed Cole RV6A #24430 N648RV (rsv=92d)
10565 East Estates Dr.
Cupertino , CA 95014
408-257-3281 (H)
408-737-7600 x6605 (W)
emcole(at)concentric.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dale(at)ecnet.com (dale) |
| Subject: | Re: -6 sliding canopy call for help |
>There are lots of us building sliding canopies, please post to the list,
>beats talking about tax and turbines.
>
>>I am just starting on the sliding canopy frames for my -6. What a can of
>>worms, I think. Or perhaps I am making this too hard. Since I have numerous
>>questions, would someone who has done this recently please send me their
>>phone number and a time I can call them?
>>
>>Bruce Patton
>>BPATTONSOA(at)AOL.COM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Bruce,
I've finished my 6A sliding canopy last May without any major problems.
I'm no expert but willing to help where I can. Call me eveings at 715
836-7492. - Dale
>
>
--
Registered ICC User
check out http://www.usefulware.com/icc.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
>Anyone have a profile for the bottom seat cushion on a -6 that fits the slope
>of the seat pan and gives a desirable bucket contour on top? It seems like a
>wedge of some sort might be needed on the bottom of the foam sandwich to make
>everything come out right..
<< snip >>
>
>Bill Boyd
Bill,
... check at your local EAA chapter for someone who keeps back
issues of Sport Aviation.
The Bingelis section in the August 1990 issue has a whole 5 pages
dedicated to making foam seats. Luckily for us, Tony B. used his RV6 as an
example, and the article has a complete set of measured drawings for the
foam shapes needed to make RV6 seats. In his usual detail, he explains all
of the steps needed to create the shaped foam seat and backrest parts.
He reccommends you build the foam portions yourself, and then take
them to an auto/boat upholstery shop to get them covered in the fabric of
your choice -- after you have gained several hours of "cockpit sitting
time" testing out the foam densities for comfort -- making sounds during
this time is optional, but feels good.
I have a copy of this article available if you can't get a copy
locally or from the EAA.
I'm having DJ @ Cleaveland Tools make my seats, but using GM
fabrics identical to those in my 1994 Astro van. When I paint the interior
in the GM colors from the same model, I will be sure that all of my
interior colors will co-ordinate. In other words, find an auto interior
scheme you like, and copy it for your RV -- carpet style and color, side
panel colors and layout, seat styles and fabric textures, instrument panel
color, the works ...
... hope this helps
... Gil (only slightly color-challenged) Alexander
PS. matching subtle shades of grey yourself is _real_ difficult .... :^)
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
RV6A, #20701
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
Okay I give up! Dumb question here. Chris what is LPM? Could you just post the
Mfgs. Name and Address for us? Thanks - Greg
> From owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com Tue Jul 23 12:17:14 1996
> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 13:04:20 -0700
> From: Rick Osgood <ccc.henn.tec.mn.us!Rick(at)matronics.com>
> X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I)
Check the latest issue of LPM, they give the Mfgs. Name and address.
Chris
>
> Has anyone found an inexpensive source for Proseal. Aircraft Spruce
> wants $37.00 a quart, Van's wants $44.00 a quart and Wicks didn't know
> what I was talking about.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
Chris Ruble wrote:
>
> > From owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com Tue Jul 23 12:17:14 1996
> > Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 13:04:20 -0700
> > From: Rick Osgood <ccc.henn.tec.mn.us!Rick(at)matronics.com>
> > X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I)
> Check the latest issue of LPM, they give the Mfgs. Name and address.
>
> Chris
>
> >
> > Has anyone found an inexpensive source for Proseal. Aircraft Spruce
> > wants $37.00 a quart, Van's wants $44.00 a quart and Wicks didn't know
> > what I was talking about.
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> >
> > Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
> >Thanks for the reply Chris and excuse the ignorance but whats' LPM??
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Nut for Low Fuel Warning Switch |
>I am installing the low fuel level warning switch sold by Aircraft
>Spruce and manufactured by The Madison Co. The switch comes with a
>threaded body, but no nut to screw onto the body. I have tried all of
>the local hardware stores, but have been unable to find a match.
>Aircraft Spruce says they don't sell a nut to go with the switch and
>calls to The Madison Co. have gone unanswered. What have the rest of
>you done when installing this switch?
>Jerald Hall
Jerry,
Got some specs for the nut? Thread size, material, thickness?
If push comes to shove, you can mail me the switch (6936 Bainbridge
Road, Wichita, KS 67226-1008) and I'll find a nut for it.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Zenner <mvz(at)cats.ucsc.edu> |
| Subject: | RMI Micro Encoder Questions |
Hello all.
I'm considering equipping my future RV-4 or 8 with IFR
instrumentation. The RMI products look like a very good way to save a lot
of panel space and get a LOT of bang for the buck.
What experience do folks have with these instruments? Most
specifically, I am curious about the Micro Encoder. RMI's web page is
plastered all over with warnings about replacing more than 1 instrument with
their unit, which seems reasonable. My question for RMI users is whether
this is a requirement of the company or the FAA. I certainly do not intend
to install such a system without redundancy, but will I get turned away by
the FAA if I don't install a complete additional altimeter and airspeed
indicator?
Also, how realiable is the unit? Have folks ever actually
experienced a failure of one of these and had to rely on the backup
instrumentation?
Thanks for any info in advance!
-Michael
Michael Zenner CP-AMSEL-IA "There is a fascination with
mvz(at)cats.ucsc.edu flying that is
difficult to
Program In Experimental Psychology explain, and hard to
University of California, Santa Cruz resist" - G. Curtiss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
Light Plane Maintenance (LPM) is a monthly publication that every airplane
DIYer should read. They can be reached at; lpmeditor(at)aol.com They are a
little costly as far as mags go, but they don't carry any adds, so they tell
the truth, even if it hurts somebody. This is good. In any case you will
save more than the cost in the tips that you get. Ask around, somebody will
have a subscription.
They list a few souces of Proseal and other brands of the same stuff;
Aviall Distributors (214)406-2329
Johnson Supply (904)434-7103
National Sealents (713)356-2233
Sealants and More (818)801-0884
Sealpac Co. (316)942-6211
>
> Okay I give up! Dumb question here. Chris what is LPM? Could you just
> post the Mfgs. Name and Address for us?
> Thanks - Greg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Howard's aircraft parts |
>
>>Watch out ordering from Howard's aircraft. Thier quality is good,
>>service is bad and I might be out $190.00, but I will continue to call
>>them!
>
>It's Harrold aircraft, and you need to talk to the Missus- she can get the
>parts out for you. Jerry always says "Yes".
>
>Check six!
>Mark
>
>
I'll second this comment on Jerry. His work is first rate but he does have
a very slow delivery rate. I recommend him but always add the note that you
need to order MONTHS in advance. Also, never tell him the true date you
have to have the part. He's kind of like my wife; if she knows that I want
to leave at 10:00 she'll finally be ready at 10:10. Now, after 25 years,
I've learned to tell her the appointment is 20 minutes earlier than it
really is.
About Jerry's parts:
I have a CS spinner that he made for me when I thought I was going to
convert to a Hartzell prop. It won't fit on my wood prop so if anyone has a
use for it I'll be happy to sell it. I've already cut out the prop holes
but it should fit any Hartzell prop.
I paid Jerry $300 for it (it also took about 3 months to get) but I'd take
any reasonable offer for it. It's designed to fit over the prop dome. No
screws are visible once it's on the aircraft. If anyone's interested I can
take a picture of it and send you a copy.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chinkley(at)ix.netcom.com (Curtis R. Hinkley) |
| Subject: | Re: yoke sizes for rivet squeezers |
You wrote:
>
>I am in the process of buying tools to start on the RV6 tail that I
received last week. My question -- as I intend to buy both hand and
pneumatic rivet squeezers, what size yokes work best on a RV6? My
inclination is to buy a 2" & a 3", but I'm sure open for comments.
Thanks in advance.
>
>Hobby Stevens
>RV6 SER#24818 N41HS(reserved)
>sarast(at)camalott.com
>
>
Hobby,
We are building two RV8s in my garage and we are finished with the HS
& VS. We decided to skip the hand squeezer and just go with the
Pneumatic. Before we completed the rear HS spar we realized this was a
wise decision. Anything you can do with a hand squeezer you can do
better with a pneumatic squeezer. We purchased Averys pneumatic
squeezer part #7530 with a 3 yoke and a 1 no hole yoke for the tips
and tight places.
Curtis Hinkley
chinkley(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Young Eagle Andy Hedin |
Edward Cole wrote:
> =
> Fellow RV builders,
> I don=92t know if this is appropriate to the list, but as most of us a=
re
> members of an EAA chapter who support the =93Young Eagles=94 programs, =
I hope
> you won=92t mind.
***stuff snipped****
> If anyone can think of anything else that would be more appropriate tha=
n
> a money donation, I=92m open for suggestions, I never met this kid befo=
re
> July 13, but his enthusiasm for flying was contagious enough for me to
> take the time to write this.
> Ed Cole RV6A #24430 N648RV (rsv=92d)
> 10565 East Estates Dr.
> Cupertino , CA 95014
> 408-257-3281 (H)
> 408-737-7600 x6605 (W)
> =
> emcole(at)concentric.net
Ed
I think it is great to want to help a kid with his dreams to =
fly, that is what the YE program is all about but at his age
he is a passenger, not a pilot, so why would we want to donate
so he could get a trip to Alaska. As a flight instructor all
of these so called kid pilot stories make my blood boil because
they are passengers at that age that is all. So if he just wants to
fly to Alaska why is the news getting involed. =
(Sorry RV-list but can't let this one go by in silence.)
-- =
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) (Hillsboro, OR)=
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: misc. stuff (please read) Plus: YASQ: How plumb does the |
jig need t
A normal aircraft tolerance for an angle is plus or minus 1/2 degree.
If you are within 1/32 of an inch in a 12 inch length, this is 0.15 degrees,
or better than three times more accurate than the standard tolerance.
JIm Ayers
LOM M332A Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Thanks to everyone who responded to my upholstery questions. Gil, I'm
especially grateful to you for the idea of lifting an entire scheme from an
automobile! What a good idea to take advantage of the expertise that Detroit
must pay big bucks for when they come up with their interior/exterior decor.
Like you, I'm kind of chromatically challenged, but I know what I like when
I see it. Recently I spent about an hour in the NAPA store trying to match
the color of a radio faceplate to the samples in their color books. Well,
the color I selected as a match looks great on the instrument panel, kind of
a metallic grey with a hint of reddish-violet, but it's a lousy match to the
radio! I don't know if it was the small size of the paint chit (1/2 in. sq.)
or the indoor lighting or what, but it is not a good match.
I hope to do my 6A in the same gold metallic that the one-armed guy from
Texas used on his gorgeous RV-6 as featured in Sport Aviation about a year
ago... adding some dark red trim. I want a fairly bright red interior, and
have already used a hardware store Rustoleum almond enamel for the interior
metal pcs before they were fitted. I am the first to admit this may have
been a mistake. It is easy to become too eager and get ahead of oneself on
these airplanes.
Life would be less complicated if I would take the time to drive 45 minutes
to the nearest city large enough to have an upholstery shop and check out the
offerings in person, wouldn't it. One thing about being the only airplane
builder in a small town- no one understands you.
Bill Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RMI Micro Encoder Questions |
Let me speak briefly as one who has built and installed the RMI microEncoder
but is still working on the plane and has zero operational time with the unit
in flight...
It is a beautifully designed and executed piece of avioniics. Building one
of these kits is a real education, and fun! For an old Heathkit builder and
"homebrewer" of amateur radio gear, it really caught me up on more recent
technology (lots of CMOS devices, liquid crystal display, electroluminescent
lighting, etc.) I was attracted to the weight and space savings, as well as
a cost advantage (versus a *non-blind* encoding altimeter setup.)
The gear worked flawlessly during its burn-in period. I assume it will prove
highly reliable in the field. After meditating upon the consequences of a
possible failure, I have elected to install a backup airspeed. Besides, an
analog airspeed with its colored arcs is unquestionably easier to read and
interpret at a glance than the numeric digital display. When in slow flight
near the threshold, I want to see my airspeed relative to the bottom of the
white arc _at_a_glance_ with no need to do mental math. I do not intend to
do any redundancy in the VSI /Altimeter /OAT / encoder /altitude nag
functions. Simply can't see the need in a glorified VFR plane like mine will
be. As for the IFR certification issue, the other guys will have to address
that. I'm still trying to figure whether I have to run encoder
correspondence checks since the encoder is the primary and only reference
altimeter.
I think you'll be happy with the box, even at $900. Then again, the RV-6's
have spacious panels...
Bill Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RMI Micro Encoder Questions |
It really doesn"t matter if it is the FAA, or RMI, that says to only replace
one "stream room" guage. MURPHY rules!! (BTW, his first name is George.
And when you are flight testing you plane, you'll be on a first name basis
with George, also.)
The Micro-Encoder is an electric instrument. When you loose the electrons,
you loose the instrument data and readout.
I lost the output from my alternator right after I took off from Reno, Nv.
for a flight back to Long Beach, Ca. This three hour flight was uneventful,
even though I shut off all electric power 5 miles from Reno, and turned it
back on 30 miles from Long Beach. The Micro-Encoder, Loran C and NAV/COM are
nice, but the sectional doesn't even have a slot for batteries.
I have had a Micro-Encoder in my RV-3 for at least four years now, and I
still can check how accurately ATIS is reporting the station pressure.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
I have a squeezer head that will dimple, and another squeezer head to rivet.
I believe Avery carries them.
You won't need them very often during the project.
You could also drill and countersink a thin end of a bucking bar to set the
dimple, and the area nextto this to set the rivet.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A N47RV Maroon Maruader
LesDrag(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: Turbine Engine |
Sounds great. A 40 inch diameter prop will just get the tips to mach 1 at
6000RPM.
The Ivoprop "Magnum" prop can only be reduced to a 60 inch diameter. It has
a pitch range of 30 to 90 inchs.
The turboprop engines I have seen start with a positive pitch at the root of
the blade and a negative pitch at the tip so there is no net thrust being
generated during startup. (Anyone interested in being the first one to start
the turbine at full low pitch?? Better bleed the brakes real good
beforehand.)
This is all very interesting to think about. Just don't forget MURPHY. A
solution for one problem can create a new and different problem.
BTW, a turboprop installation does not have the cooling requirements of a
liquid cooled, or air cooled engine. A 100 shp turboprop should have the
same performance as a Lycoming O-290-D2 135 Hp engine, or the LOM M332A.
Or, said another way, 225SHP = 300 Hp for NET THRUST. ROT (Rule Of Thumb)
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A N47RV Maroon Marauder ((New exhaust pipes) 191 mph true 7,500 feet
density altitude full throttle without the supercharger (115 Hp at sea
level))
LesDrag(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Young" <gyoung(at)Net1.Net> |
I don't want to be alarmist, but I'd seriously consider using only flame
retardent fabrics (preferably FAR certified, but there are others). In a
previous life I was involved with purchasing for a major airline and
experienced fabric burn tests first hand. I'll defer to any experts out
there on the specifics, but most of the uncertified fabrics (particularly
synthetics like rayon) go up like a torch while the certified
self-extinguishes. Topical treatments wash off quickly and some fabrics
give off toxic fumes when they burn. If you must use non-certified
fabric, I'd suggest pure wool. It's naturally self-extinguishing and won't
kill you with fumes. Choose carefully.
--
Greg Young
gyoung(at)net1.net
Citabria N90AV
RV-6 s/n 23070 - left wing in jig
----------
> From: John Darby <our-town.com!johnd(at)matronics.com>
>snip
> >What about sources and specs for fabric to cover the side walls, etc.
I
> saw>some nice velour-looking stuff in some of the planes at Frederick.
> SportAviation mentioned a GlasAir done in Finesse (imitation leather);
> anyone have>experience with this stuff? Comments appreciated.
> >
> I used heavy upholstery material, but there are many choices out there
that
> will work. I later saw some at Walmart auto parts that would have been
> perfect. I cut patterns of kraft paper, then transferred to the fabric
and
> cut. Used auto top spray contact glue. Invented 7 new swear words, but
got
> it done.
>snip
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: RMI Micro Encoder Questions |
What is the address of the RMI web page?
Thanks,
LD (starting to dream about panels)
>Hello all.
> I'm considering equipping my future RV-4 or 8 with IFR
>instrumentation. The RMI products look like a very good way to save a lot
>of panel space and get a LOT of bang for the buck.
>
> What experience do folks have with these instruments? Most
>specifically, I am curious about the Micro Encoder. RMI's web page is
>plastered all over with warnings about replacing more than 1 instrument with
>their unit, which seems reasonable. My question for RMI users is whether
>this is a requirement of the company or the FAA. I certainly do not intend
>to install such a system without redundancy, but will I get turned away by
>the FAA if I don't install a complete additional altimeter and airspeed
>indicator?
>
> Also, how realiable is the unit? Have folks ever actually
>experienced a failure of one of these and had to rely on the backup
>instrumentation?
>
> Thanks for any info in advance!
>
> -Michael
>
>Michael Zenner CP-AMSEL-IA "There is a fascination with
>mvz(at)cats.ucsc.edu flying that is
>difficult to
>Program In Experimental Psychology explain, and hard to
>University of California, Santa Cruz resist" - G. Curtiss
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | thayer(at)sirius.com (Thayer Syme) |
| Subject: | Re: Young Eagle Andy Hedin |
>Jerry Springer wrote...
>Ed
>I think it is great to want to help a kid with his dreams to
>fly, that is what the YE program is all about but at his age
>he is a passenger, not a pilot, so why would we want to donate
>so he could get a trip to Alaska. As a flight instructor all
>of these so called kid pilot stories make my blood boil because
>they are passengers at that age that is all. So if he just wants to
>fly to Alaska why is the news getting involed.
>(Sorry RV-list but can't let this one go by in silence.)
I have to agree on this point. He has been on the news for the last couple
of nights in San Francisco. It seems as if the media is trying to show us
a kid pilot story that has a happy ending. Pretty disturbing. What
happens if there is another, albeit unlikely, incedent? More legislation
forbidding kids from sitting up front? the first story I saw, also
indicated that the 6K was all he needed.
I guess I will save my pennies so I can take kids I know for their YE rides.
Thayer
--------------
Thayer Syme
San Francisco
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russ Werner <russ(at)maui.net> |
| Subject: | Rudder Skin Hinge Cutouts |
Aloha,
Okay, I'm curious. Just how small can you make the cutouts in the rudder
(and I assume elevator too) to accomodate the rod-ends and the hardware
holding the rudder to the stab? Van's plans show it starting at the spar
and going from there forward, and 2 inches wide. I was wondering if I could
get away with 1.5 wide and starting 1/2 inch from the spar. It would be a
tricky deal getting the bolt in the rod-end, but I think it might be
possible in 1.5 inch. What about the 1/2 inch? Is that enough to make an
opening with the rudder hard over?
Any feedback from those with finished tails would be appreciated.
Russ Werner, Maui Hawaii
russ(at)maui.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joehine(at)mi.net (joehine) |
>Anyone have a profile for the bottom seat cushion on a -6 that fits the slope
>of the seat pan and gives a desirable bucket contour on top? It seems like a
>wedge of some sort might be needed on the bottom of the foam sandwich to make
>everything come out right. What about the gap created when the seat back is
>adjusted rearward for long-legged passengers? Does the seat back cushion
>drop into this gap or does it just yawn open behind the old derriere?
> Perhaps the entire bottom cushion moves back to snug against the seat back,
>but wouldn't that leave the front edge of the seat unpadded? Conversely
>should the bottom cushion hang over the front edge of the spar when the seat
>back is in the forward most setting? I'm having a hard time visualizing how
>all this is supposed to work. I guess I didn't ask enough questions at the
>Frederick, MD builders' forum this spring... and no OSH for me this year
> ~:-(
>
>What about sources and specs for fabric to cover the side walls, etc. I saw
>some nice velour-looking stuff in some of the planes at Frederick. Sport
>Aviation mentioned a GlasAir done in Finesse (imitation leather); anyone have
>experience with this stuff? Comments appreciated.
>
>Bill Boyd
>
Bill, there was an artical in sport aviation a couple of years ago by Tony,
that detailed the building of 6 seats. I dont know the issue. Maybe
someone else can list the issue.
joe
joehine(at)mi.net Comp. 9, Site 8, RR#4
506-452-1072 Home Fredericton, NB
506-452-3495 Work Canada, E3B 4X5
Nobody on their death bed has ever been heard to say "Geeze,I wish I'd spent
more time at work"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: yoke sizes for rivet squeezers |
Hobby,
I found that I neede a 3 inch. yoke to do not only the tail but the whole
plane ....
...George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cecil Hatfield / Fourstar Printing <cecil(at)alto1.altonet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Banquet at Oshkosh |
To confirm for those that want spots at the Banquet table in Oshkosh,
The following are comfirmed for the banquet Sunday 7PM 8-4-96:
Tim Wooten 1
Curtis Hinkley 1
Mike Cheney 1
Joe Lewis and friend 2
Eric & Carolyn Barnes 2
Bill Costello 1
Sis 'Veronica' Costello 1
Dave Musgrave 1
John Musgrave 1
Jim Cone & wife 2
Larry Groom & 3 friends 4
Danny Kight 1
Joel Harding 1
Chris Harding 1
Greg Bordelon 1
Rob Lee 1
John Zidek and friend 2
Irv Elhai 1
Bob Cornacchia 1
Phillip Forrest 1
Al Stevenson 1
Mark D Hiatt(maybe) 1
As I mencioned before, I got permission from Tom to reserve a table. Also I
they don't mind, I plan on having name places so as to aid our ID of each
other.
-------------------------------------
Cecil Hatfield
cecil@altonet
RV-6A (wings)
Date: 07/24/96
Time: 05:57:54
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pilla(at)emmanuel.espinc.com (Michael Pilla) |
| Subject: | Need help locating particular gas strut |
Well, I am trying to replicate Claudio Tonini's canopy gas strut
arrangement.
I have the "ball capture" end pieces, and I have the part number
for the gas strut, but none of the auto supply stores around here
either 1) heard of the brand or 2) can cross reference for me. They
all want to know what kind of car it is for ...
The particular one Claudio used is called "The Lifter" and there is a
part number, 5415, stamped under the name. That is all the identifying
marks that I could see.
Anyone have info on a source for this part? Or a cross reference index?
Thanks.
Mike Pilla
pilla(at)espinc.com
RV-4, #2866, fitting canopy frame, still !@#$%^&* :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)interhop.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tatco rivet squeezers |
Don, I know you are not joking because I did the same myself. I made up an
ingenious method of putting washers and spacers in to get the right distance
for squeezing, then I asked a local builder, and felt a little foolish.
The proximal end of the squeezer adjusts by screwing in and out.
John (14,000 rivets later)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | NSGE82A(at)prodigy.com (MR NORMAN W RAINEY) |
Bill,
Look back to the August 1990 issue of Sport Aviation and you'll find
info on seats.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Skin Hinge Cutouts |
>Okay, I'm curious. Just how small can you make the cutouts in the rudder
>(and I assume elevator too) to accomodate the rod-ends and the hardware
>holding the rudder to the stab? Van's plans show it starting at the spar
>and going from there forward, and 2 inches wide. I was wondering if I could
>get away with 1.5 wide and starting 1/2 inch from the spar. It would be a
>tricky deal getting the bolt in the rod-end, but I think it might be
>possible in 1.5 inch. What about the 1/2 inch? Is that enough to make an
>opening with the rudder hard over?
>Russ Werner, Maui Hawaii
Russ, Why not start with the minimum cut-out and try inserting a bolt in
the clearances that this gives you. Make the cut-out larger, as needed,
until you can insert the appropriate bolt. I made a couple of the gadgets
featured in one of the RVators that hold the bolts for easier insertion into
the hinge points. On the elevators, you could make the top cut-outs a
minimum size and make the bottom cut outs big enough for bolt insertion.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
>Bill, there was an artical in sport aviation a couple of years ago by Tony,
>that detailed the building of 6 seats. I dont know the issue. Maybe
>someone else can list the issue.
>joe
Here's what I have in my SA index concerning interiors, seats, etc. : Jan,
Feb, Mar and Apr of 1985 and Aug of 1990. Bob Skinner BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Standley <Gary_Standley(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Young Eagle Andy Hedin |
Text item:
I'M WITH JERRY. THESE KIDS ARE NOT OF LEGAL AGE TO BE CALLED ANYTHING BUT A
STUDENT/PASSENGER AT THIS TIME. THE MEDIA IS SO "SICK" BECAUSE DEEP DOWN THEY
ARE HOPING FOR ANOTHER FRONT PAGE STORY. I WISH THE YOUNG MAN WELL IN HIS
AVIATION PURSUIT BUT THE GENERAL PUBLIC GETS A COMPLETELY WRONG PERSPECTIVE OF
WHAT IS REQUIRED TO LEGALLY OBTAIN A PILOTS CERTIFICATE.
GARY STANDLEY
>Jerry Springer wrote...
>Ed
>I think it is great to want to help a kid with his dreams to
>fly, that is what the YE program is all about but at his age
>he is a passenger, not a pilot, so why would we want to donate
>so he could get a trip to Alaska. As a flight instructor all
>of these so called kid pilot stories make my blood boil because
>they are passengers at that age that is all. So if he just wants to
>fly to Alaska why is the news getting involed.
>(Sorry RV-list but can't let this one go by in silence.)
I have to agree on this point. He has been on the news for the last couple
of nights in San Francisco. It seems as if the media is trying to show us
a kid pilot story that has a happy ending. Pretty disturbing. What
happens if there is another, albeit unlikely, incedent? More legislation
forbidding kids from sitting up front? the first story I saw, also
indicated that the 6K was all he needed.
I guess I will save my pennies so I can take kids I know for their YE rides.
Thayer
--------------
Thayer Syme
San Francisco
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Subject: Re: RV-List: Young Eagle Andy Hedin
From: sirius.com!thayer(at)matronics.com (Thayer Syme)
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 00:01:26 -0700
.jf.intel.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA00350 for | From: | K8DO(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Young Eagle Andy Hedin |
This post frightens the gizzard out of me... All the news channel has to do
is show one more kid splashed across the countryside during a flying "stunt",
and you can kiss private flying goodbye... the non-flying public absolutely
won't stand for it, they are the majority and their elected officials WILL
enact new laws restricting flying, especially in an election year.... the
smartest thing we can do is tell this bright youngster, "NO", which is what
adult judgement is for, and channel him into non-sensational flying
activities...
Denny
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNES_ERIC(at)Tandem.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Young Eagle Andy Hedin |
While I don't necessarily disagree with Jerry, I have to take a
different point of view. I don't dispute that Andy would not be the
pilot in command, and the media shouldn't portray him as such. But, I
think all of this is irrelevant in this matter.
The young eagles program is great. It's not just a better ride than the
roller coaster at Great America - it gives kids of all ages the exposure
to flight that in many cases ignites the desire to pursue flying
throughout life. This is what we're after!
So we succeed and ignite that desire to fly. Then what? Do we fan the
flames, or let them smolder out?
I had lot of dreams as a pre-teen...in fact I still do have lots of
dreams. But like most people, I don't go after them like I wish I
would. Without going into a Freudian expose' of my life, this behavior
IS learned at a young age. I wish there had been someone to encourage
me!
Sounds like this kid is working hard to pursue his dream. His attitude
is something I think should be encouraged, assisted, and exemplified.
Not as a flying feat, but as an alternative to this desultory, often
hopless way many young people approach life.
That said, my only misgivings would be sending a check and not having
the flight take place. I'd rather see the checks held by Ed, to be
returned if this falls through, or paid to an FBO for block time for
Andy at least.
Sorry, touched a chord. Now please excuse me while I get off my butt
and call Van's to order my RV-8 tailkit.
EB
------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT --------
SENT 07-23-96 FROM SMTPGATE (jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com)
Edward Cole wrote:
> =
> Fellow RV builders,
> I don=92t know if this is appropriate to the list, but as most of us a=
re
> members of an EAA chapter who support the =93Young Eagles=94 programs, =
I hope
> you won=92t mind.
***stuff snipped****
> If anyone can think of anything else that would be more appropriate tha=
n
> a money donation, I=92m open for suggestions, I never met this kid befo=
re
> July 13, but his enthusiasm for flying was contagious enough for me to
> take the time to write this.
> Ed Cole RV6A #24430 N648RV (rsv=92d)
> 10565 East Estates Dr.
> Cupertino , CA 95014
> 408-257-3281 (H)
> 408-737-7600 x6605 (W)
> =
> emcole(at)concentric.net
Ed
I think it is great to want to help a kid with his dreams to =
fly, that is what the YE program is all about but at his age
he is a passenger, not a pilot, so why would we want to donate
so he could get a trip to Alaska. As a flight instructor all
of these so called kid pilot stories make my blood boil because
they are passengers at that age that is all. So if he just wants to
fly to Alaska why is the news getting involed. =
(Sorry RV-list but can't let this one go by in silence.)
-- =
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) (Hillsboro, OR)=
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Tatco rivet squeezers |
Regarding getting dies in and out of Tatco rivet squeezers: Kevin Lane,
a member of the Home Wing builders group, came up with the idea of
popping out the roll pin that serves as a stop for the handle. If you
do this the handle will open up all the way and there's no need to
always go screwing the plunger in and out every time you want to change
dies. Disadvantage is that you can no longer use the 'lock' that keeps
the handle closed when not in use. That's no big deal, I just slip a
rubber band around the bottom two handles when I'm storing it.
Note: when you pop the roll pin out a little spring loaded ball bearing
will pop out and hit you between the eyes if you're not careful!
PS: I have a Tatco 3" yoke for sale for $50. Also an Avery back rivet
plate, 5" x 16" for $30.
Randall Henderson
Editor, Home Wing Newsletter
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Skin Hinge Cutouts |
Rudder Skin Hinge Cutouts
One thing I've seen others do (AFTER I did mine unfortunately) is make
the smallest possible cutout on the TOP and a normal sized cutout on the
bottom. The top cutout is only the minimum needed for clearance with
the rod end hinge point (about 1" wide). I'd still make the bottom one
full sized to minimize the #^#%@&* factor during maintenance.
Randall Henderson
Editor, Home Wing Newsletter
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Young Eagle Andy Hedin |
I agree with earlier comments. We need to be very mindful of just how
precarious our freedom to fly really is. In the wake of the TWA800 and
Valujet disasters the FAA's role of promoting aviation is under assault.
Say what you will about the FAA but if their Congressional (read FUNDED)
mandate to promote aviation is removed and they are mandated to ONLY focus
on safety how long do you think private flying as we now know it will exist?
Any activity that could lead to a very public PR disaster should be ACTIVELY
discouraged by all who value the freedoms we enjoy. If Andy really wants to
get that pilot's license and fly that Stearman he loves some day, he should
NOT be making this flight in any mode other than a passenger - a passenger
manipulating the controls perhaps but a passenger nevertheless.
Richard E. Bibb TEL: 301-571-2507
Director ALT: 301-564-4404
Fore Systems Federal, Inc. FAX: 301-564-4408
6905 Rock Spring Drive, #800 email: rbibb(at)fore.com
Bethesda, MD 20817 PAGE: 800-719-1246
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Need help locating particular gas strut |
>Well, I am trying to replicate Claudio Tonini's canopy gas strut
>arrangement.
>
>I have the "ball capture" end pieces, and I have the part number
>for the gas strut, but none of the auto supply stores around here
>either 1) heard of the brand or 2) can cross reference for me. They
>all want to know what kind of car it is for ...
>
>The particular one Claudio used is called "The Lifter" and there is a
>part number, 5415, stamped under the name. That is all the identifying
>marks that I could see.
>
>Anyone have info on a source for this part? Or a cross reference index?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Mike Pilla
Mike:
I may have one surplus to my needs. I thought about, in fact bought, a gas
strut for my 4 but eventually decided not to use it. I'll check tonight and
see what it says on it.
The reason I decided against it was the constant pressure it puts on the
canopy frame when closed. The sissors type devices work fine,are lighter
and don't apply constant pressure. Another decision to make........
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elon_Ormsby <e671275(at)popsicle.llnl.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Young Eagle Andy Hedin |
Any activity that could lead to a very public PR disaster
should be ACTIVELY
>discouraged by all who value the freedoms we enjoy. If Andy really wants to
>get that pilot's license and fly that Stearman he loves some day, he should
>NOT be making this flight in any mode other than a passenger - a passenger
>manipulating the controls perhaps but a passenger nevertheless.
>----------------------------
Yesterday the bill FORBIDDING RECORD FLIGHTS BY PERSONS UNDER 16 was either
passed by a senate committee or signed into law(I don't know which). One
more FAR ON THE BOOKS!!
I suggest that you memorize that law and when ever a sensationalistic news
program tries to capitalize (as in make money at our expense) you notify
them of their brain-dead reporting. Call them up or a letter-to- the-editor
such as ... "How can they be MISS-REPORTING an activity that is expressibly
PROHIBITED by law number "nnnnn". Turn the law into an advantage for our
side. They would be displaying their ignorance of the law or irresponsibly
glorifying a criminal activity.
Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Young Eagle Andy Hedin |
Perhaps it would be better for this kid to stay at home and watch TV?
The same people that would have laws passed restricting this kids
flying activities feel that all flying is "sensational".
If we continue to shelter our children from every possible harm, we
will continue to see kids and young adults that are not prepared to
deal with a world where there will always be dangers. Life is risk.
We have no, and should not have any say-so in how this kid leads his
life as long as he does no harm to others, and his parents are behind
him. It is the responsability and right of his parents to teach/rase
him as they see fit. When it comes time for my kid(s) to learn to fly,
they will start early. I can't even remember the first time my dad
gave me the controls of an airplane, I was to young. None of us
learned to fly by watching, we all learned by doing. Let the kid
learn now, and he will be a better pilot when he's ready to fly on his
own.
If it's going to be flying that is restricted today, then it will be
driving, riding bicycles and skate-boards tomorow. Look what restricting
access to, and knowledge of guns has got us. When I was a kid almost
every kid had access to a gun, and _nobody_ ever shot another kid. The
difference was we were taught how to hanle guns in a responsible way
by our fathers. Today kids are taught about guns by the TV, with
predictable results.
If we allow the government to restrict this sort of thing now, what will
it be next? If "freedom" doesn't mean the freedom to be stupid, then it
means nothing at all. It's time for all of America to try and remember
what the words freedom and liberty mean in all those old songs, before
it's to late.
Land of the free and home of the brave, or land of the restricted and
home of the timid? We better wise up and make the choice while we still
can.
God bless America
Chris
> .... the
> smartest thing we can do is tell this bright youngster, "NO", which is what
> adult judgement is for, and channel him into non-sensational flying
> activities...
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
> I don't want to be alarmist, but I'd seriously consider using only flame
> retardent fabrics (preferably FAR certified, but there are others).
I agree although I would like to point out just because it's FAR
certified doesn't mean it won't burn -- the specs make mention of "burn
rate" and toxicity, but surprisingly they don't necessarily say it has
to self-extinguish.
Case in point -- At an annual a couple of years back, the A&P told us we
had to replace the carpet in our Citabria (the same carpet he'd been
signing off for years) so we got some from Wicks complete with
"certified" paperwork. Out of curiosity I cut some off and burned it --
it burned just fine, albiet nice and slow, with stinky black smoke
curling up from it. About the same as the old stuff. The paperwork
referred to burn rate -- so many inches per minute or something, and
didn't say it would self-extinguish.
I'll bet if you researched it you could find some industrial carpet that
won't burn, and for less $$ than the FAA certified stuff. IMHO we're
paying too much for those "certified" pieces of paper.
This brings up an interesting question: what are the regs in the AUTO
industry concerning flammability? I would think there would be
standards there as well, what with exploding gas tanks and all. (Those
damn ground vehicles sure are dangerous!)
Randall Henderson, RV-6
Editor, Home Wing Newsletter
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SHOFFIUS(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | 032-E2D and Demuth prop for sale |
0320-E2D with accy. for sale 538 hours since new. Aymar Demuth wood prop
still in the box...will not separate. 150 hp all logs. 11500.00...removed
from flying Tailwind
Stowe Hoffius
here but me so leave your number and I will call you back
501-751-5049 home
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)SagentTech.com> |
| Subject: | How many quickbuild people? |
I'm partially through my empennage kit, and have decided to get the
quickbuild kit (sans tail). Since my wife wants children in a year or
two, my building time will decrease rapidly then! I'll be picking up
the kit myself on August 16th.
Anybody else (besides Rob Acker) either have or getting a quickbuild kit
soon?
Q / cut here
-------------O-\-------------------------------------------------------
Mitchell Faatz mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com
Software Engineering Manager
Sagent Technology, Inc. (415) 614-6826
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: July issue of newsletter |
Hi Jim,
Would you pass around the following: Anyone within a reasonable distance from
Akron, Oh., Roadway Trucking just took back a damaged rv-6 fuselage jig for
salvage disposal. It is one of the nice steel ones mfd by Stephen Frey of W.
Chester, Pa. It was damaged in shipment and could be repaired by an
industrious individual. They reimbursed me to buy a new one which I just
picked up in Pa. Their main phone # is 330-384-1717. Thanks. Mal
rvbildr(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dcahoon(at)intellinet.com (David Cahoon) |
I am overhauling an 0-320 (with lots of good help) and was told that the
fuel pump is the same as one used on autos. I don't think I will get that
warm fuzzy feeling using one from AutoZone but just wondered if any one had
use an auto fuel pump to replace the a/c one and if so what did it come off of?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gksugar(at)gate.net (gregory warr) |
Was wondering what size orfice other builders were using on the discharge end
of the static system? I am having some conflicting readings when in excess of
120 knts.. traveling into a headwind the loran indicated 135 knts however the
airspeed indicated approx 10 knts. less. At lower speeds the loran and
airspeed indicator are fairly close to each other. When i installed the system
I placed the location according to plans, one on each side and aft of baggage
compartment, but never found a hole size. I ended up useing a # 40 bit. maybe
too small to let the increased volum through? could use some help on this
one.
Greg warr N 524 KW
trying to pack for oshkosh
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: How many quickbuild people? |
> Anybody else (besides Rob Acker) either have or getting a quickbuild kit
> soon?
RV-6AQ # 60023 arrived here today via Roadway. 10 of my friends showed up to
lift it off the truck... no problem. Shipping charge to San Antonio was $795
for everything except the canopy. The canopy is backordered because the
canopy maker broke *THE* RV6 canopy mold and delayed production.
Gotta go inventory a garage full of stuff.... I'm psyched!!!!
Tim Lewis
CapnTim(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
I am not going to be able to visit Oshkosh and wondering if any of you RV'ers
will be videoing the RV line-up at Oshkosh. If anyone would be kind enough I
would love to copy tapes , and will of course pay for a fedex to and from the
owners - Im trying to complie a video RV "scrapbook"
I'm a new RV4 guy and drooling at the thought of all those RV's lined up.
Regards,
Matthew Fairy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RButc69912(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh Video |
Matt... I, too, will not be able to attand Osh this year despite a lot of
planning. If you get a lead, please let me know as I'd also like to see the
RV's tht get there..
Ron Butcher
Turlock,Calif
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
DJ at Cleaveland Tools is the only way to go. She makes Grand Champion
Quality interiors at a very reasonable cost. Seats are fully countoured and
have an adjustable lumbar support. Extra cushions for short pilots fit under
the seat cushion. Her work is a work of art. I just love mine.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Young Eagle Andy Hedin |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB7A11.5F8F9A60
Well here's my 2 cents too.. I learned to fly by working at a gas =
station and cutting out of school to do it. I couldn't tell anyone I =
soloed because I was supposed to be in class.(study hall) I couldn't =
understand why everyone was so angry with me since flying wasn't exactly =
a "bad" activity. Since this was in 1969 I guess we just weren't all =
that "enlightened" at that time. Anyway money etc.... prohibited me from =
going a whole lot farther in flying at the time, but the flame of desire =
has not burned out.......far from it.......in fact this has almost =
become an obsession with me now. Not an hour goes by without thinking of =
the 6 and I haven't started the emp. yet. (Oct.) My point is, if you =
want to fly you will find a way on your own. You will appreciate what =
you have done far more and you will have built character and not owe =
your success to anyone. Chris is right about the government..too big, =
into too many things, and why is it we have to have them regulate =
something that is our God given right to use. Sure their needs to be =
some regulation and reasonable control, but it should be done by users =
with some representation by the general public to insure their safety =
too. The biggest conflict of interest in this country is having lawyers =
in Washington who pass laws so their peers have another tool to create =
income. (Not all lawyers are bad....some build RV's) Man I'm sorry for =
abusing the rv-list this way......
I guess it's just all pent up frustration. How bout an "old eagles" =
program..... send your checks to me! =20
Al (starting to calm down.)
prober(at)iwaynet.net
----------
From: Chris Ruble[SMTP:cisco.com!cruble(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 1996 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Young Eagle Andy Hedin
Perhaps it would be better for this kid to stay at home and watch TV?
The same people that would have laws passed restricting this kids=20
flying activities feel that all flying is "sensational".. It is the =
responsability and right of his parents to teach/rase him as they see =
fit.
flying that is restricted today, then it will be driving, riding =
bicycles and skate-boards tomorow. Look what restricting access to, and =
knowledge of guns has got us. When I was a kid almost every kid had =
access to a gun, and _nobody_ ever shot another kid. The difference was =
we were taught how to hanle guns in a responsible way by our fathers. =
Today kids are taught about guns by the TV, with predictable results.
If we allow the government to restrict this sort of thing now, what will =
it be next? If "freedom" doesn't mean the freedom to be stupid, then it =
means nothing at all. It's time for all of America to try and remember=20
what the words freedom and liberty mean in all those old songs, before=20
it's to late.
Land of the free and home of the brave, or land of the restricted and=20
home of the timid? We better wise up and make the choice while we still =
can.
God bless America
Chris =20
Ditto Chris......
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB7A11.5F8F9A60
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BB7A11.5F8F9A60--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Static System |
<< Was wondering what size orfice other builders were using on the discharge
end
of the static system? I am having some conflicting readings when in excess
of
120 knts.. traveling into a headwind the loran indicated 135 knts however
the
airspeed indicated approx 10 knts. less. At lower speeds the loran and
airspeed indicator are fairly close to each other. When i installed the
system
I placed the location according to plans, one on each side and aft of
baggage
compartment, but never found a hole size. I ended up useing a # 40 bit.
maybe
too small to let the increased volum through? could use some help on this
one.
Greg warr N 524 KW
trying to pack for oshkosh >>
Greg:
I installed the static vents per the plans location but used a pair of
machined units found in Spruce & Specialty. I think they have a slightly
larger hope than the #40 you describe.
I don't see how this would make a difference as there really is no
airflow in the static system when flying at a fixed altitude. Could you be
getting a turbulence around the static ports? This would have more of an
effect on static pressure. Also, don't discard the ram side (pitot tube).
It's position relative to the airflow off the wing could also be introducing
your error. (Or a combination of both...)
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov> |
Gregg,
The hole size is non critical with regard to volume flow, at least,
assuming you don't have leaks in your static system. The static system
is a "closed" system. Each aneroid is sealed and ideally there is no
flow - only pressure changes. The placement and shape of the orifice
will determine the accuracy of your static measurement. An infinitely
small hole will provide the most accurate measurement because it
introduces the least disturbance in the air flow . However this has to
be tempered with the fact that very small holes tend to clog more easily.
The surface surrounding the hole is very critical. It should be smooth
and in plane with the surrounding surface. Big iron sometimes has a
protected paint free zone over 12 inches in diameter surrounding the
static ports which consist of multiple (as many as 20) minute, maybe
.005" holes. GA airplanes generally have a protected area of 1 to 2 inch
diameter. Holes are generally (my guesstimation) 1/16" or smaller.
Before you go through the trouble of modifying your static port, it would
be worth performing a leak check and a static calibration of your pitot
static system. This can be done cheaply with water and clear plastic
tubing. An article in February '96 EAA Experimenter outlines a
procedure. Make sure you keep the water out of your instruments. As
quoted from the article, you should see:
Pressure (in inches of water) vs Airspeed (in miles per hour)
2 64.3
4 90.98
6 111.43
8 128.67
10 143.85
12 157.58
My RV-4, with the pitot static placement as recommended in the drawings,
has the same characteristics you describe. The indicated airspeed seems
to be accurate at lower speeds (less than 100) but tends to read low at
higher speeds (over about 150 indicated) as verified in formation with
several other airplanes. Mine has read as much as 10 knots low. I'm
much more concerned with airspeed indicator accuracy in the 100 and below
range. All of my flight testing was done with this calibration, thus I
have not changed anything.
Good luck!
Mitch Robbins
----------
From: owner-rv-list[SMTP:owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 1996 9:00 PM
Subject: RV-List: Static System
Was wondering what size orfice other builders were using on the discharge
end
of the static system? I am having some conflicting readings when in
excess
of
120 knts.. traveling into a headwind the loran indicated 135 knts however
the
airspeed indicated approx 10 knts. less. At lower speeds the loran and
airspeed indicator are fairly close to each other. When i installed the
system
I placed the location according to plans, one on each side and aft of
baggage
compartment, but never found a hole size. I ended up useing a # 40 bit.
maybe
too small to let the increased volum through? could use some help on
this
one.
Greg warr N 524 KW
trying to pack for oshkosh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | July issue of newsletter |
Jim,
I am interested but I need more info. I was the first to call roadway so =
I hope I can get first shot at it. I called the phone number and they =
put me through to akron salvage. They told me I need a "pro #". Can =
you get a hold of your friend and find out what the pro # is??? I don't =
want to get into a bidding war on this thing either. Better yet would =
your friend call me (collect if necessary). My phone number is =
(614)890-6301. Thanks for the lead.....
Al
prober(at)iwaynet.net
RV-6 N162NV Res. =20
----------
From: aol.com!Rvbildr(at)matronics.com[SMTP:aol.com!Rvbildr(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 1996 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: July issue of newsletter
Hi Jim,
Would you pass around the following: Anyone within a reasonable distance =
from
Akron, Oh., Roadway Trucking just took back a damaged rv-6 fuselage jig =
for
salvage disposal. It is one of the nice steel ones mfd by Stephen Frey =
of W.
Chester, Pa. It was damaged in shipment and could be repaired by an
industrious individual. They reimbursed me to buy a new one which I just
picked up in Pa. Their main phone # is 330-384-1717. Thanks. Mal
rvbildr(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KHarrill(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Conical vs Dynifocal Engine Mounts, Narrow Deck |
Does anyone have experience with both dynifocal and conical engine
mounts? I have located an O-320 for sale that has conical mounts and
narrow/standard deck cylinder flanges. My questions are:
1. How significant is the difference in the vibration transmitted to the
airframe with conical mounts?
2. Will the prop used be more of a factor with conical mounts; e.g. will a
wood prop or metal prop be better with conical mounts?
3. Are there any disadvantages to the narrow/standard deck cylinder flanges?
Thanks to Matte and all the contributors to the RV -list. It is truly a
great source of information.
Ken Harrill
RV - 6 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Standley <Gary_Standley(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Young Eagle Andy Hedin |
Text item:
YEA, I KNOW A LAWYER THAT IS BUILDING AN RV4. ACTUALLY, HE IS A NICE GUY.
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB7A11.5F8F9A60
Well here's my 2 cents too.. I learned to fly by working at a gas =
station and cutting out of school to do it. I couldn't tell anyone I =
soloed because I was supposed to be in class.(study hall) I couldn't =
understand why everyone was so angry with me since flying wasn't exactly =
a "bad" activity. Since this was in 1969 I guess we just weren't all =
that "enlightened" at that time. Anyway money etc.... prohibited me from =
going a whole lot farther in flying at the time, but the flame of desire =
has not burned out.......far from it.......in fact this has almost =
become an obsession with me now. Not an hour goes by without thinking of =
the 6 and I haven't started the emp. yet. (Oct.) My point is, if you =
want to fly you will find a way on your own. You will appreciate what =
you have done far more and you will have built character and not owe =
your success to anyone. Chris is right about the government..too big, =
into too many things, and why is it we have to have them regulate =
something that is our God given right to use. Sure their needs to be =
some regulation and reasonable control, but it should be done by users =
with some representation by the general public to insure their safety =
too. The biggest conflict of interest in this country is having lawyers =
in Washington who pass laws so their peers have another tool to create =
income. (Not all lawyers are bad....some build RV's) Man I'm sorry for =
abusing the rv-list this way......
I guess it's just all pent up frustration. How bout an "old eagles" =
program..... send your checks to me! =20
Al (starting to calm down.)
prober(at)iwaynet.net
----------
From: Chris Ruble[SMTP:cisco.com!cruble(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 1996 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Young Eagle Andy Hedin
Perhaps it would be better for this kid to stay at home and watch TV?
The same people that would have laws passed restricting this kids=20
flying activities feel that all flying is "sensational".. It is the =
responsability and right of his parents to teach/rase him as they see =
fit.
flying that is restricted today, then it will be driving, riding =
bicycles and skate-boards tomorow. Look what restricting access to, and =
knowledge of guns has got us. When I was a kid almost every kid had =
access to a gun, and _nobody_ ever shot another kid. The difference was =
we were taught how to hanle guns in a responsible way by our fathers. =
Today kids are taught about guns by the TV, with predictable results.
If we allow the government to restrict this sort of thing now, what will =
it be next? If "freedom" doesn't mean the freedom to be stupid, then it =
means nothing at all. It's time for all of America to try and remember=20
what the words freedom and liberty mean in all those old songs, before=20
it's to late.
Land of the free and home of the brave, or land of the restricted and=20
home of the timid? We better wise up and make the choice while we still =
can.
God bless America
Chris =20
Ditto Chris......
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BB7A11.5F8F9A60--
Text item: External Message Header
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Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 20:42:21 -0400
Subject: RE: RV-List: Young Eagle Andy Hedin
From: "Allan W. Mojzisik" <iwaynet.net!prober(at)matronics.com>
f.intel.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA02969 for | Date: | Jul 25, 1996 |
| From: | caummisa(at)arn.net (Richard Caummisar) |
| Subject: | Re: How many quickbuild people? |
I'm sure you will keep the group updated with status report??!?
>> Anybody else (besides Rob Acker) either have or getting a quickbuild kit
>> soon?
>
>RV-6AQ # 60023 arrived here today via Roadway. 10 of my friends showed up to
>lift it off the truck... no problem. Shipping charge to San Antonio was $795
>for everything except the canopy. The canopy is backordered because the
>canopy maker broke *THE* RV6 canopy mold and delayed production.
>
>Gotta go inventory a garage full of stuff.... I'm psyched!!!!
>
>Tim Lewis
>CapnTim(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | New email addr for Duckworks |
Hi RV-LIST gang. I have finally gotten on the net at home. I would
appreciate it if any correspondence for Duckworks Landing Lights be sent
or forwarded to that addr. (jwentz@columbia-center.org)
N790DW is running great, over 300 hrs now, just over 2 yrs old.
We'll be heading for Oshkosh Tuesday morning, along with Carl Hay (of
'Climbing Everest' fame) and Wally Anderson from Eugene OR, both RV-6s.
Look for us in the RV area, we'll be there until Monday morning. Hope
to see some of you there!
Don 'The Duck' Wentz, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Caldwell <74504.1365(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Wing Ribs Alignment |
I'm clamping and drilling my main wing ribs to the Main Spar and have noticed
looking from the rear ends of the ribs that some are out of alignment. I've
checked to ensure that the front rib flanges are flush against the spar. Is
this situation OK. I'm assuming that when ribs attach to the Rear Spar, then
they will be aligned? Appreciate any thoughts.
Ron Caldwell
RV6A (Winging It)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gretzw(at)tcplink.nrel.gov (Warren Gretz) |
Look for related information on this subject under the subject of
"Heated Pitot tube mounting" on another posting
Warren Gretz, RV-6, N25WG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gretzw(at)tcplink.nrel.gov (Warren Gretz) |
| Subject: | Heated Pitot tube mounting |
There has been some messages lately on the static source. There is
another method that should prove to be more accurate for correct
airspeed. Instead of running lines to the rear fuselage on both sides,
one could elect to install a heated pitot tube that has both static
and dymamic sources in it. The type that I used and recommend is the
AN 5814-12. They are available from most normal aircraft parts places
like Wicks or Aircraft Spruce. One then has the benefit of needing to
only run two line to the pitot tube, both to one location in the wing.
Another great benefit is having a heated pitot tube. Even if you are
not doing IFR, it will prove to be a benefit. Pitot tubes can frost up
even in VFR conditions. Plus, if operations are done in freezing, or
near freezing conditions, on take off, splash of going through puddles
or a wet runway could get water on the pitot tube that could then
easily freeze.
The part of all this that I can help you with is the mounting of the
pitot tube. I make and sell a mounting bracket kit for the
installation of a heated pitot tube. The kit is designed especially
for the RV aircraft. It is made for the mounting of heated pitot
tubes; AN5812-12 (12 volt), and the recomended AN5814-12 (12 volt with
static source). Since these pitot tubes are chrome plated, the
mounting bracket is also chrome plated. The kits are also available
without the chrome plate if you choose to paint it. The mounting
brackets are available in complete installation kit form, or the mount
bracket only, if it is to be used an another type of homebuilt. The
kits come with complete installation instructions with helpful photos.
The prices for the kits are: $100.00 for the chrome kit, and $80.00
for the paintable kit. Please add $5.00 for shipping in the USA. I
will send you a flyer on this product if you contact me. By phone,
(303) 770-3811, or by mail, Warren Gretz, 3664 E. Lake Dr., Littleton,
CO 80121. Please do not contact me by E-mail. My computer connection
is at work, and I should not receive this type of mail here at work.
In the back of Van's Optional Parts Catalog, under other sources of
parts and things, one will find me listed there also, if you need it.
Warren Gretz RV-6 N25WG
3664 E. Lake Dr.
Littleton, CO 80121
(303) 770-3811
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Yablon <brian(at)lanart.com> |
| Subject: | Fixing elongated rivet holes? |
Here's a riveting question:
Let's say you clinch a 1/8" rivet, and in drilling it out to replace
it, you elongate the hole slightly. Let's further assume that in
trying to buck the replacement rivet, it decides to lean over into the
elongation you just created. So you drill that one out too,
elongating the hole a bit more, but in another direction. Clearly,
another 1/8" rivet ain't gonna work, you don't have enough edge
clearance for a 3/16" rivet, and you don't particularly feel like
disassembling the left front HS spar from the rest of the skeleton to
replace it, especially in light of your track record drilling out
rivets.
What would you do in this purely hypothetical situation??
I'm thinking of installing an MD-42S pop-rivet through the mangled
hole, and backing it up with a 1/2" x 1/2" plate of .032 alclad, so it
will have a good piece of metal to grab when it was pulled. What do
you think?
Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com
RV-6A #24751
Skinning the HS...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | blpzx(at)pacifier.com (John Kimmel) |
| Subject: | Re: Fixing elongated rivet holes? |
>
>Clearly, another 1/8" rivet ain't gonna work, you don't have enough edge
>clearance for a 3/16" rivet, and you don't particularly feel like
>disassembling the left front HS spar from the rest of the skeleton to
>replace it, especially in light of your track record drilling out
>rivets.
>
>What would you do in this purely hypothetical situation??
>
>I'm thinking of installing an MD-42S pop-rivet through the mangled
>hole, and backing it up with a 1/2" x 1/2" plate of .032 alclad, so it
>will have a good piece of metal to grab when it was pulled. What do
>you think?
>
>
>Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com
>RV-6A #24751
>Skinning the HS...
>
>
>
I would ream up to the next size rivet, which would be 5/32nd (a #21 drill),
depending on how mangled the hole is. Use a rivet on the short side to
minimize the possibility of tipping again. I presume, of course, that you
won't have any trouble scrounging a rivet and set thru your local EAA
chapter or builders group. Also, be sure to iron out the metal around the
hole if it has wrinkled up from all the abuse it's been getting. If you
have to go up to a -6, use an "A" rivet; at that point you're just filling
the hole and if you try driving an alloy rivet in thin metal with
insufficient edge distance, you're likely to dimple the metal, or crack the
part. You can "repair" the hole by splicing in a new section of flange, or
a doubler IAW AC43.13, figure 2.25. Pop rivets are an abomination,
especially the cheap, non-aviation, non-structural ones provided in the
kits. Finally, this airplane kit building is a "learning experience", by
FAA mandate. Expect a few "rehearsals" before you achieve a polished
performance.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Web Page Revision |
Just finished re-doing my RV project Web page. No new pictures, but
I've fleshed out the content a bit, and set up a chapter format using
frames that lets you browse faster. The URL is
http://ic.net/~patk/rv6a.htm
I also developed some more pictures. I'll scan them this weekend and
try to update the page again this time next week, so you may want to
wait or check back.
PatK - RV-6A - Installing my heated pitot tube for under $30.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | inet(at)intellisys.net (brian whatcott) |
| Subject: | Re: Static System |
///
>My RV-4, with the pitot static placement as recommended in the drawings,
>has the same characteristics you describe. The indicated airspeed seems
>to be accurate at lower speeds (less than 100) but tends to read low at
>higher speeds (over about 150 indicated) as verified in formation with
>several other airplanes. Mine has read as much as 10 knots low. I'm
>much more concerned with airspeed indicator accuracy in the 100 and below
>range. All of my flight testing was done with this calibration, thus I
>have not changed anything.
>
>Good luck!
>Mitch Robbins
How strange!
The urban folk story has it that Cessna engineered the static port
with a slightly raised 2 inch platform (like a washer) so as to allow
the ASI to read low at low AS and high at HIGH as.
This would have both marketing and safety advantages.
brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rdunn(at)ionet.net (Ronald M. Dunn) |
Did any of you pre-punched tail kitters receive your rudder horn (R-405PD)
that was actually PD (pre-drilled)? Mine only has the rod end hole drilled.
I can't tell from the manual when I'll need to use the 3/16 and 1/8 holes.
It sure is the pits not having the rest of the drawings to refer to.
Ron (wrestling with the rudder)
Ron Dunn (RV-8 #80078)
rdunn(at)ionet.net
Broken Arrow, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Huffaker <huffaker(at)utw.com> |
On Thu, 25 Jul 1996, Ronald M. Dunn wrote:
> Did any of you pre-punched tail kitters receive your rudder horn (R-405PD)
> that was actually PD (pre-drilled)? Mine only has the rod end hole drilled.
> I can't tell from the manual when I'll need to use the 3/16 and 1/8 holes.
> It sure is the pits not having the rest of the drawings to refer to.
>
> Ron (wrestling with the rudder)
Mine looks the same, looking at the upper right corner of 7pp tho,
looks to me like the two holes on the flange side (the side with the
bit that sticks up, is this the right word?) are 3/16, other two are 1/8.
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (huffaker(at)utw.com)
President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
AW # 467 Biff Tarkiss
RV-8 80091 Making rudder skin stiffeners
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net> |
| Subject: | Rivets, rivets, rivets! |
To whomever answers first--
I'm getting ready to pound my first rivets on my RV-8 HS, attaching the
flange strips to the rear spar. The drawing calls for AN470AD4-7 rivets,
which measure 11mm in length. They sure seem to stick out the back
pretty far...the AD4-6 look like they'd be a better fit.
Before I screw it all up using the wrong rivets, did I read the drawing
correctly? Since I probably won't get any "instant replies," I guess
I'll put it away for the night.
Thanks for your help!
--Don McNamara
mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HBenjamin(at)gnn.com (Harold Benjamin) |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Skin Hinge Cutouts |
Russ,
I went with the 2" cutouts for the rudder & elevators. Probably
could have made them smaller, but I'd rather have a little room
for preflight inspection. Good luck!
Hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Drilling wing spar stiffeners |
I've been working on my wing spars. One process involves drilling the
5/8" aluminum angle stiffeners. Each stiffener is attached with two
bolts -- one at each end. The location of the stiffeners is somewhat
exacting, as they determine the rib locations, and if you have prepunched
skins, you don't have a lot of slop in rib alignment.
Van's directions tell you to make sure you drill the hole exactly through
the centerline of the stiffener. I had some problems with this, but believe
I have a method I would like to share with people. I've been getting
excellent results with it.
I marked the centerline at one end of each stiffener. On one of the
stiffeners, I also marked how far from the end the first hole should go.
I then went to my drill press and quickly set up a jig, using the first
of these stiffeners to help get everything aligned. I was able to
drill one hole in each stiffener on the drill press exactly on the
centerline, the correct distance from the end.
Then, for each stiffener, working one at a time, I attached the stiffener
to the spar in its location using a bolt through the predrilled hole. To
exactly align the second hole, I cut a block of wood approximately 5 by
5, with one corner as close to exactly square as I could. I marked the
corner so I could easily keep track of it.
You can then use this block of wood to align the stiffener for the second
hole. Just think of it as a square. It goes against the spar flange and
against the stiffener. Clamp everything in place and drill. For me, this
only requires a single clamp -- the block of wood goes on the "inside" of
the stiffener, not the outside. This requires rounding-over the edge
that goes against the stiffener to match the radius...
Assuming Van's drilled the holes in the right places, you are left with
a perfectly-drilled stiffener, or at least as close as you can set up your
drill press. This method works extremely quickly, and I'm very pleased with
it.
Of course, I'm sure I'll find out in about 6 months that Van's holes aren't
in the right places....
There are two basic "tricks" to this method. The first is to pre-drill the
first hole exactly on the centerline. This is most easily accomplished on
the drill press. The second is to use the block of wood as a square rather
than a regular square. Reason: I don't have any squares that will fit
tightly in place. They're all too long or too flexible.
----
I was given another method to try that didn't work very well for me. I
was told to clamp both the stiffener and the associated rib in place, using
a tape measure to place the rib where it belongs. This method worked amazingly
poorly for me, but I'm told it worked great for the person who suggested it
to me.
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GHLX34A(at)prodigy.com (MR GEORGE T KILISHEK) |
| Subject: | Fixing elongated rivet holes? |
Brian:
If the hole is in the center of the spar, it can safely be ignored
(there are negligible transverse loads along the centerline. If the
rivet you're concerned about is to a rib flange, you can fabricate
another flange ("L" section), rivet it to the rib, drill new holes on
the other side of the spar, and rejoice in the fact that, once the
skin is on, no one will ever suspect.
George Kilishek
Assmbling Rudder RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivets, rivets, rivets! |
An addendum to my previous plea for help:
Nevermind.
I sat down, did the math, and guess what? The -7s specified are the
right ones. Who'd have guessed it? So, I boldly took my rivet gun and
made enough noise that my wife came down to the basement and gave me one
of "those looks." You know the one...
...I just grinned.
BTW--I also learned how to drill out bad rivets tonight, too. :(
The moral of this story is: Read the plans, trust the plans.
Thanks, all. G'night.
--Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Ribs Alignment |
>I'm clamping and drilling my main wing ribs to the Main Spar and have
noticed
>looking from the rear ends of the ribs that some are out of alignment. I've
>checked to ensure that the front rib flanges are flush against the spar. Is
>this situation OK. I'm assuming that when ribs attach to the Rear Spar,
then
>they will be aligned? Appreciate any thoughts.
>
>Ron Caldwell
>RV6A (Winging It)
Ron:
I can assure you, if the ribs LOOK mis-aligned, they are. As you locate them
to the rear spar, push them into or past proper position a bit, so that when
in place, they have no stress on them. IMHO, the ribs should be drilled to
the REAR spar first ( while the front ends are clamped to the front spar) ,
to hold them all in the same plane (so to speak). This is done after the
alignment holes for the strings are drilled, and the are spars aligned and
leveled properly. You will need to loosen the ribs (so they can "Float" into
position) at the front spar attach, and clamp & drill them to the rear spar.
Then, you can drill them to the front spar, and to the .063 attach angles at
the appropriate inboard locations.
Are you using those dang PP skins, too? I've found, after three sets of those
PP skins, that the spar drilling isn't held to the tolerances it could be
(plus or minus 1/8"). Skins are on the money, for what it's worth. I much
prefer locating my own holes in the skin for the ribs, as the ribs don't
always wind up at the correct stations.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fellrider(at)gnn.com (Bruce Bockius) |
| Subject: | Obtaining 'non-compliant' Variprime in Oregon |
Hello all
I just went down to the local paint dealer here in Hillsboro, OR.
Sitting on a shelf I found quart and gallon containers of Dupont Variprime
(615S/616S), which is what I had decided I wanted to use on my plane. I
asked the guy at the counter what the price was, and he said "It's
non-compliant." What? "I can't sell it to you, it doesn't comply with the
air pollution regulations." So why do you have it on the shelf? "We sell it
to people not from around here." He wouldn't even tell me what the price
was. This whole deal seems a little strange to me.
So, I was wondering if anybody, particularily those of you around this
area, had had any experience dealing with this issue?
Thanks.
Bruce
-----------------------------------------------------
Bruce C. Bockius
Field Service Engineer
Nikon Precision, Inc.
Portland, Oregon, USA
fellrider(at)gnn.com
-----------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Rivets, rivets, rivets! |
> I'm getting ready to pound my first rivets on my RV-8 HS, attaching the
> flange strips to the rear spar. The drawing calls for AN470AD4-7 rivets,
> which measure 11mm in length. They sure seem to stick out the back
> pretty far...the AD4-6 look like they'd be a better fit.
>
> Before I screw it all up using the wrong rivets, did I read the drawing
> correctly? Since I probably won't get any "instant replies," I guess
> I'll put it away for the night.
The drawings sometimes specify the wrong rivet, although I haven't
found this happening very often on my -6A. However, they will look like
they are sticking out kind of far.
Do you have a rivet gauge? If you bought the tool kit from Avery, there are
two types of gauges. One is a set, one per rivet size, with a hole drilled
in one end and a notch in the other. This is used after you drive the rivet
to make sure you did it right -- head should be at least the same diamter
as the hole and taller than the notch.
The other gauge is just a piece of metal, about 3/4" by 1", with a notch
cut in each corner. It's scribed with the rivet sizes -- 3, 4, 5 and 6.
Before you rivet, the rivet should stick out of the hole by the height of
the notch. According to my calipers, the -4 notch is .19 inches deep or
so.
Hope this helps. If you drive the rivet and things go awry, you can always
drill it out. :-|
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scholl Jon" <scholl.jon(at)smtpgw.bcg.com> |
| Subject: | Rivets, rivets, rivets! |
> I'm getting ready to pound my first rivets on my RV-8 HS, attaching the
> flange strips to the rear spar. The drawing calls for AN470AD4-7 rivets,
> which measure 11mm in length. They sure seem to stick out the back
> pretty far...the AD4-6 look like they'd be a better fit.
> Do you have a rivet gauge? If you bought the tool kit from Avery, there are
> two types of gauges. One is a set, one per rivet size, with a hole drilled
> in one end and a notch in the other.
I bought the Avery gauges--its fantastic for quickly removing doubt. The
notches and holes make quicker work of sizing rivets than measuring.
_______________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivets, rivets, rivets! |
>An addendum to my previous plea for help:
>
>Nevermind.
>
>.
>
>BTW--I also learned how to drill out bad rivets tonight, too. :(
>
>--Don
>
>
I valuable skill that you will use over and over and over again.
-Scott N506RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov> |
You wrote:
How strange!
The urban folk story has it that Cessna engineered the static port
with a slightly raised 2 inch platform (like a washer) so as to allow
the ASI to read low at low AS and high at HIGH as.
This would have both marketing and safety advantages.
brian
I'll refrain from commenting on the "marketing and safety advantages" but
you're probably right! The raised portion serves two purposes. One, it
raises the surface of the port above the plane of the fuselage skin to
reduce the effects of imperfections in the fuselage skin and reduce
boundary layer effects. With sufficient diameter, the ridge caused by
the washer is negligible. Higher airspeeds require a larger diameter.
It also allows them to manufacture the port and then "bolt it on"
without concern for the quality of the skin and without having to machine
the skin. I would call these "manufacturing advantages."
Some of the homebuilder type static ports which are sold are very
similar.
You might also note that many Wichita airplanes only have the static port
on one side of the fuselage, again a cheaper way to build the airplane.
This provides for exceptional airspeed accuracy during slips. Next time
you, god forbid, are in a C-152, walk the rudders and watch the massive
IAS changes!
Mitch Robbins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com |
| Subject: | Rivets, rivets, rivets! |
Hello Don McNamara.
I have found that the rivets that Van specifies are consistently 1/32
too short. By too short I mean that when you drive the rivet to the point
of reaching minimum "mushroom" diamater, the thickness of the mushroom is
already too thin. So, when he says -6, I generally use a -7 etc.
Absolutely get the Avery rivet gage that Joe Larson mentioned. The "gold"
one allows you to insert the rivet in the hole and then measure the length
to insure it is correct. Use this a lot!
You are, of course, using the Avery tool to rivet the HS spar? Good luck
and have fun. If you feel you are getting into trouble, make sure to call
one of your local builders to come over and set you straight. This riveting
business is very much like learning to land. Once you get the hang of it,
it's really easy. In the meantime, you can make one hell of a mess.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gretzw(at)tcplink.nrel.gov (Warren Gretz) |
| Subject: | Heated Pitot tube mounting |
There has been some messages lately on the static source. There is
another method that should prove to be more accurate for correct
airspeed. Instead of running lines to the rear fuselage on both sides,
one could elect to install a heated pitot tube that has both static
and dymamic sources in it. The type that I used and recommend is the
AN 5814-12. They are available from most normal aircraft parts places
like Wicks or Aircraft Spruce. One then has the benefit of needing to
only run two line to the pitot tube, both to one location in the wing.
Another great benefit is having a heated pitot tube. Even if you are
not doing IFR, it will prove to be a benefit. Pitot tubes can frost up
even in VFR conditions. Plus, if operations are done in freezing, or
near freezing conditions, on take off, splash of going through puddles
or a wet runway could get water on the pitot tube that could then
easily freeze.
The part of all this that I can help you with is the mounting of the
pitot tube. I make and sell a mounting bracket kit for the
installation of a heated pitot tube. The kit is designed especially
for the RV aircraft. It is made for the mounting of heated pitot
tubes; AN5812-12 (12 volt), and the recomended AN5814-12 (12 volt with
static source). Since these pitot tubes are chrome plated, the
mounting bracket is also chrome plated. The kits are also available
without the chrome plate if you choose to paint it. The mounting
brackets are available in complete installation kit form, or the mount
bracket only, if it is to be used an another type of homebuilt. The
kits come with complete installation instructions with helpful photos.
The prices for the kits are: $100.00 for the chrome kit, and $80.00
for the paintable kit. Please add $5.00 for shipping in the USA. I
will send you a flyer on this product if you contact me. By phone,
(303) 770-3811, or by mail, Warren Gretz, 3664 E. Lake Dr., Littleton,
CO 80121. Please do not contact me by E-mail. My computer connection
is at work, and I should not receive this type of mail here at work.
In the back of Van's Optional Parts Catalog, under other sources of
parts and things, one will find me listed there also, if you need it.
Warren Gretz RV-6 N25WG
3664 E. Lake Dr.
Littleton, CO 80121
(303) 770-3811
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
| Subject: | RE:Fixing elongated rivet holes? |
Brian, I agree with John Kimmels response so I won't rehash the repair
method. I do have a few pointers for preventing elongated holes and
drilling out rivets. If your drilling out an 1/8" rivet, use the 1/8" bit
and only drill out to the depth of the head, stop at this depth and using
the bit or punch snap off the rivet head. I guess you already know it's
important to stay centered on the rivet. Then use a #36 bit and drill the
remaining rivet out. If you push with the drill while drilling often the
rivet will be pushed out before you drill completely through. I do not
recommend drilling completely through the rivet. You can use a punch to
push the remaining rivet out OR use a pair of flush cut dikes (wire
cutters) and peel the rivet out from the buck tail end. I know some of this
seems basic but sometimes a demonstration helps to understand the
methodology.
ps. AC43.13 has the potential of becoming you best freind........Greg
greg(at)brokersys.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Let's say you clinch a 1/8" rivet, and in drilling it out to replace
it, you elongate the hole slightly. Let's further assume that in
trying to buck the replacement rivet, it decides to lean over into the
elongation you just created. So you drill that one out too,
elongating the hole a bit more, but in another direction. Clearly,
another 1/8" rivet ain't gonna work, you don't have enough edge
clearance for a 3/16" rivet, and you don't particularly feel like
disassembling the left front HS spar from the rest of the skeleton to
replace it, especially in light of your track record drilling out
rivets
Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal & Suzanne Smith <smithhm(at)phoenix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling wing spar stiffeners |
Joe Larson wrote:
>
> I've been working on my wing spars. One process involves drilling the
> 5/8" aluminum angle stiffeners. Each stiffener is attached with two
> bolts -- one at each end. The location of the stiffeners is somewhat
> exacting, as they determine the rib locations, and if you have prepunched
Joe,
I hope everything works out OK BUT, after talking to Van's, the holes
are NOT CORRECT. You should use Sketch 34 to locate the ribs first
then locate the angle relative to the rib. In my case I had to shim
the angle over to get enough edge clearance for the bolt through the
angle in many plaes. In some cases the bolt head is tight up against
the angle. I have placed my skins on and drilled them with very
little alignment problems (in fact, my wife drilled some of them for
me--am I a lucky guy or what, though she did say to not get used to
it). I really hope it works out for you. Van's say that SOMETIMES it
works OK but there is no guarantee.
Hal Smith, RV-6A Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gksugar(at)gate.net (gregory warr) |
| Subject: | Re: Static System |
Just a short Thank You to George, Fred, and Mitch for their reply on my static
delema. Guess it was working O K all along. Would have refered back to Tony's
books but loaned them to another builder,and he's in Oshkosh. Will be signing
off soon , don't want to fill the mail box while out of touch.
Greg Warr N 524 KW ------------- oshkosh...........weather permitting
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Arter <arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu> |
Any good rumors about when Van's will start taking orders for RV-8 wing kits?
Phil
arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Duckworth lights |
543-2298 (h)
696-7185 (w)
don_wentz(at)ccm.hf.intel.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
| Subject: | Low-Flame Materials |
REGARDING Low-Flame Materials
I just saw this in DesignFAx:
Polydamp Melamine Foam (PMF) is an ideal lightweight acoustical thermal
insulation product for aircraft, aerospace . . . applications where low flame
spread and minimal smoke generation is a requirement. PMF does not drip when
ignited and stops burning when the ignition source is removed. The material
produces minimal flame and smoke
Polymer Technologies Inc.
420 Corporate Blvd.,
Pencader Corporate Center
Newark, DE 19702
800/850-9001
I have not association, in any manner, with this company. Since this was a
recent topic I thought I would post for our continued education and
experience. They are sending me materials specifications. They gave
permission to post to this list.
-Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Air Compressor deal, Drill press advice needed |
> I totally agree. I have this behemoth in my house now and use headphones
> whenever it runs. Anyone who can suggest a way for me to make this thing
> quieter (I've enen contemplated burying it) please let me know.
Yeah me too. But I have a separate room for painting, I leave it in
there and run the hose under the door. This makes it managable. When I
paint I swap rooms with the compressor. I've considered moving it into
the basement, which is adjacent to the garage.
Randall Henderson
randall(at)edt.com
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Alodyne/alumiprep |
>... I'm
> wondering if I can just use alodyne with no other surface prep???
Not unless you scuff it with Scotch-Brite or fine sandpaper first. You
need to break the surface with some kind of etch process, otherwise the
stuff will just bead off. PPG makes a phosphoric-acid based aluminum
cleaner that is their version of alumaprep (I don't remember the number
tho) which is used to clean and etch the metal before alodyning.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
Editor, Home Wing Newsletter
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Long range fuel tanks |
> What would happen if you bought an extra tank skin, split it and
> spliced it to the ends of your existing tank skins
...
> you might be better off making your own leading edge skins.
I'll bet Van's would bend you up some oversized ones, for a price.
The -8 skins might work also, but I'm not sure -- some of the extra
capacity may be from the different wing attach, so the trailing
edge may be longer or shorter. Worth checking I suppose.
Several -4 builders have done something similar by using a -6 skin and
baffle and splicing an extension on to the spar web doubler.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
Editor, Home Wing Newsletter
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Where to put the Strobe Power Unit in a -6 |
>
> Mine is going under the baggage floor. I'm riveting a doubler to the skin,
> and attaching the power supply to that.
[snip!]
> (Yes, it means that I cannot pop-rivet the baggage floor down.)
>
Not necessarily -- you could make an access plate in the floor.
I was originally planning on doing wingtip power supplies but have
since decided I'll probably go with a fuselage mounted one instead as
it is cheaper and provides more power than the wingtip ones available
(34 joules vs 20 if I remember correctly). If I do that I'll probably
do just that (access panel in the baggage floor). Otherwise it's a lot
of nutplates holding down the baggage floor.
Randall Henderson
Editor, Home Wing newsletter
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Rivets, rivets, rivets! |
> I have found that the rivets that Van specifies are consistently 1/32
> too short. By too short I mean that when you drive the rivet to the point
> of reaching minimum "mushroom" diamater, the thickness of the mushroom is
> already too thin. So, when he says -6, I generally use a -7 etc.
I'm not hitting this, and I use the aforementioned gauges all the time. The
only times I get too flat a rivet is if I go a little nuts with the gun or
squeezer.
Hmm...
-J
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
| Subject: | Re: Fixing elongated rivet holes? |
>>
>>Here's a riveting question:
>>
>>Let's say you clinch a 1/8" rivet, and in drilling it out to replace
>>it, you elongate the hole slightly. Let's further assume that in
>>trying to buck the replacement rivet, it decides to lean over into the
>>elongation you just created. So you drill that one out too,
>>elongating the hole a bit more, but in another direction.
>>Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com
>>RV-6A #24751
>>Skinning the HS...
>>
>>
The others have answered with the conventional wisdom, which is good
as far as it goes, I'll offer a little more drawn from years of
drilling out holes and screwing up more than my share!
1). If the hole is in an exposed, highly visable place, you may want
to do more, but many times ther answer is to forget it and drill a new
hole nearby. The old hole will paint just fine!
If it is highly visable and you want to put in a matching rivit that
looks like all the others, back up the shin with a bucking bar and
using a small ball peen hammer, gently work the hole smaller. This
requires some skill, practice someplace else first! If the metal is
too big for this, drill it out so the hole is clean and round, then
counter sink it carefully *ON BOTH SIDES* if possible. Then, using a
soft countersink rivit, a little short, carefully flush the hole.
Even though a quite large hole exists and a quite large rivit may be
necessary, this works. (This is called "double-flushing", not to be
confused with a different technique sometimes necessarily used on
toilets). Use a rivit cutter tool to smooth it flush with the skin.
Even though the bottom buck tail will cause it (skin) to stick up a
bit, it's usually un-noticable, or the bottom flange can be dimpled a
bit. Finish by doing as advised in Para 1 above. (Or, if you are brave
and the rivit patern MUST be observed, drill a new hole through your
double flushed rivit.
Last resort is to go to the next oversize rivit, beleive it or not,
this will not be very noticable when painted over......
These techniques are designed to cover up mistakes and cannot be
construed to be as good as an original rivit installed perfectly, but
because there is so much design margin built in, (probably 3 times
more rivits than really needed), you are safe doing this once in a
while. Needless to say, you should become quite adept in drilling out
rivits in the first place!
AIRCRAFT REMANUFACTURING
1291 E. VISTA WAY, #150
VISTA, CA. 92084 (619) 749 0239 FAX: 749 6384
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Conical vs Dynifocal Engine Mounts, Narrow Deck |
> Does anyone have experience with both dynifocal and conical engine
>mounts? I have located an O-320 for sale that has conical mounts and
>narrow/standard deck cylinder flanges. My questions are:
>
>1. How significant is the difference in the vibration transmitted to the
>airframe with conical mounts?
>2. Will the prop used be more of a factor with conical mounts; e.g. will a
>wood prop or metal prop be better with conical mounts?
>Ken Harrill
Ken, A while back, we put my Sensencich 70CM prop on a friends 150 hp RV-4
which has the conical mount. He flew it and couldn't wait to land. He was
afraid the needles would fall off all of his gauges. The same prop on my
airplane was much smoother but not nearly as smooth as my wood prop, either
before or after balancing the wood prop. I had my metal prop balanced and
it made a world of difference. We ended up using two AN4 bolts with six
larger area washers and nuts to get the prop to balance. We put each bolt
in one of the holes on the ring gear. My friends RV-4 has a balanced wood
prop and I've had it on my airplane and it was really, really smooth. By
the way, I had my metal prop re-pitched and it was right on the money as far
as static balance. When checking the prop this way, the extension, spinner
bulkheads, bolts, etc. are not being balanced. Just the prop.
I believe that wood props are generally smoother than metal. On the flat
mount, I'd probably lean towards a wood prop. Saying that, I do like my
metal prop because I know longer have to check torque all of the time and I
can fly through rain without throttling back. Whatever you decide to do, I
would highly recommend that your prop be dynamically balanced.
By the way, I did have the Landoll harmonic balancer on my plane with the
wood prop. I didn't really notice much of a changed when I took it off, as
far as vibration goes. I've visited with ***** *********, who is an IA (well
known RV guy, but I hesitate to mention his name without his
permisson--probably doesn't need the extra phone calls) about the balancers
and I think he feels that they are benifical whether you notice a difference
or not. The balancer gives some inertia to the prop mass and he felt that
it would benifit the engine/airframe. He also said that he felt that the
addition of a balancer might lessen ring float and save breaking a ring.
Anyway, the dampner does give some needed forward weight to the RVs. Bob
Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Compressor deal, Drill press advice needed |
Regarding noisy compressors...
If any of you are in the market for a quiet compressor, look into getting
a used dental compressor. I had one left over from a practice
acquisition, so it was cheap and handy. I don't know if it's got enough
oomph to spray paint a plane, but it seems to be adequate for riveting,
and it's QUIET!!!
Check with your family dentist. He may know of someone who's retiring
and has a compressor to sell cheap.
--Don McNamara
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ted_boudreaux(at)om.cv.hp.com |
| Subject: | Interesting web site |
Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
Anyone interested in an aftermarket fuel injection system may want to
check out: http://www.sdsefi.com/
Ted Boudreaux
ted_boudreaux@hp-pcd.hp.com
RV6A 22435
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pat McClung <pmc123(at)airmail.net> |
| Subject: | RV-LIST Overload |
I understood I was no longer on the list but found 190 messages on my
return out of town.
When and how do I get some relief??????
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Hiatt <hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Fixing elongated rivet holes? |
Brian Yablon wrote:
>
> Here's a riveting question:
>
> Let's say you clinch a 1/8" rivet, and in drilling it out to replace
> it, you elongate the hole slightly. Let's further assume that in
> trying to buck the replacement rivet, it decides to lean over into the
> elongation you just created. So you drill that one out too,
> elongating the hole a bit more, but in another direction. Clearly,
> another 1/8" rivet ain't gonna work, you don't have enough edge
> clearance for a 3/16" rivet, and you don't particularly feel like
> disassembling the left front HS spar from the rest of the skeleton to
> replace it, especially in light of your track record drilling out
> rivets.
>
> What would you do in this purely hypothetical situation??
>
> I'm thinking of installing an MD-42S pop-rivet through the mangled
> hole, and backing it up with a 1/2" x 1/2" plate of .032 alclad, so it
> will have a good piece of metal to grab when it was pulled. What do
> you think?
>
> Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com
> RV-6A #24751
> Skinning the HS...
Brian, When I totally screw up a hole like that in the frame, I put a
piece of alclad on both surfaces and just drive a longer rivet. It works
and is strong.
Fred Hiatt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Air Compressor deal, Drill press advice needed |
>Regarding noisy compressors...
>
>If any of you are in the market for a quiet compressor, look into getting
>a used dental compressor. I had one left over from a practice
>acquisition, so it was cheap and handy. I don't know if it's got enough
>oomph to spray paint a plane, but it seems to be adequate for riveting,
>and it's QUIET!!!
>
>Check with your family dentist. He may know of someone who's retiring
>and has a compressor to sell cheap.
>
>--Don McNamara
>
>
In a previous life I repaired dental equipment including air compressors.
There really isn't any significant difference between dental air compressors
and air compressors bought at the local Eagle or Ace hardware.
Of course, labeling them 'dental air compressors' added about 50 to 70% to
the cost. Kind of like what we're finding out about airplane parts.
Any air compressor with a separate motor driving a compressor with a rubber
belt is likely to be relatively quiet.
Someone mentioned wanting to bury his air compressor; actually, putting it
in an outside shed and insulating the walls would likely be enough to dampen
the noise down to a bearable level.
I built my RV using a 1 HP Sears compressor (belt driven). It was more than
adequate for the job. I have a 1/2 HP compressor in my hangar for checking
cylinder compression. I think it would have sufficient to run a rivet gun.
Most rivet guns use a very minimal amount of air; you don't need a large
compressor to operate them.
If you plan to use a nibbler or paint your RV then you'll need an air
compressor with about 2 to 4 HP. Otherwise, go with the minimum needed.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-LIST Overload |
<< airmail.net!pmc123 >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen) |
| Subject: | Re: Howard's aircraft parts |
You wrote:
>
>
>>Watch out ordering from Howard's aircraft. Thier quality is good,
>>service is bad and I might be out $190.00, but I will continue to
call
>>them!
>
>It's Harrold aircraft, and you need to talk to the Missus- she can get
the
>parts out for you. Jerry always says "Yes".
>
>Check six!
>Mark
>
I ordered a set of gear leg fairings several years ago for $32 and
after talking to the missus 3 or 4 times over a period of one year I
finally asked her to send my money back which she did. I still don't
have fiberglas gear leg fairings. I would like to buy some fiberglas
gear leg fairings but I don't know how to get them.
Peter B. Mortensen n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com
__________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: Fixing elongated rivet holes? |
Brian Yablon asked:
>Let's say you clinch a 1/8" rivet, and in drilling it out to replace
>it, you elongate the hole slightly. Let's further assume that in
>trying to buck the replacement rivet, it decides to lean over into the
>elongation you just created. So you drill that one out too,
>elongating the hole a bit more, but in another direction. Clearly,
>another 1/8" rivet ain't gonna work, you don't have enough edge
>clearance for a 3/16" rivet, and you don't particularly feel like
>disassembling the left front HS spar from the rest of the skeleton to
>replace it, especially in light of your track record drilling out
>rivets.
>
>What would you do in this purely hypothetical situation??
I assume we are talking about the rivets holding the ribs to the HS front
spar? I don't think those rivets are carrying ANY structural load, so
almost any solution would be fine. I would leave the existing rivet or put
a pop-rivet in there.
BEst Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
finishing kit on order
fuselage out of the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
I called and spoke to Tom I think. They are gathering the pieces now and
are quoting end of August. They spent all last weekend building the
shelving to store the parts and are in the process of tallying up how much
the kits will cost. They estimate slightly upwards of 4large.
-Mike
(Waiting)
----------
From: Phil Arter[SMTP:ncar.ucar.edu!arter(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Friday, July 26, 1996 12:47 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-8 Wings?
Any good rumors about when Van's will start taking orders for RV-8 wing
kits?
Phil
arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | Rivets, rivets, rivets! |
I wonder if priming/dimpling technique causes this because I consistently
have to use half or full size longer rivets to meet specs. I'm using the
Avery gagues to see if the rivet is long enough to begin with, and then
feeling them for height and circumferance after they are set. I had to buy
"4" length to put the HS skin on. The 3.5's were under or over driven as I
went from one tap to the next. I just figured that four layers of epoxy
prime could easily be a 32nd of an inch thick or more.
----------
From:
showpg.mn.org!jpl(at)matronics.com[SMTP:showpg.mn.org!jpl(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Friday, July 26, 1996 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rivets, rivets, rivets!
> I have found that the rivets that Van specifies are consistently 1/32
> too short. By too short I mean that when you drive the rivet to the
point
> of reaching minimum "mushroom" diamater, the thickness of the mushroom
is
> already too thin. So, when he says -6, I generally use a -7 etc.
I'm not hitting this, and I use the aforementioned gauges all the time.
The
only times I get too flat a rivet is if I go a little nuts with the gun or
squeezer.
Hmm...
-J
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Ribs Alignment |
<< I'm clamping and drilling my main wing ribs to the Main Spar and have
noticed
looking from the rear ends of the ribs that some are out of alignment. I've
checked to ensure that the front rib flanges are flush against the spar. Is
this situation OK. I'm assuming that when ribs attach to the Rear Spar,
then
they will be aligned? Appreciate any thoughts.
>>
I had the same problem. I just "helped" the rear ends into alignment,
clamped them in place, and drilled them. Just make sure that you have the
spars in alignment with the string/holes setup.
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rivets, rivets, rivets! |
<< The moral of this story is: Read the plans, trust the plans. >>
Oh grasshopper, you have SO much to learn... :)
Seriously, the rivet lengths on the plans are usually correct, but I would
always double check first. After a while you will develop an "eye" and be
able to tell when the rivet is inserted, if it is in fact correct.
I have found several places where the plans are incorrect, or misleading. It
never hurts to double check everything.
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pilla(at)emmanuel.espinc.com (Michael Pilla) |
| Subject: | Re: Rivets, rivets, rivets! |
> Seriously, the rivet lengths on the plans are usually correct, but I would
> always double check first. After a while you will develop an "eye" and be
> able to tell when the rivet is inserted, if it is in fact correct.
One thing a newbie may be forgetting is to make sure that the parts are
completely mated. E.g., if you have an "excess" of the edge "break", the
skin, prior to riveting may be up slightly indicating a too short rivet.
Placing a bucking bar against the rivet and pressing firmly will often reveal
that the length is about right.
Still, I agree with Ed Bundy's "TLAR" approach; you do develop a feel.
> I have found several places where the plans are incorrect, or misleading. It
> never hurts to double check everything.
Amen.
Mike Pilla
pilla(at)espinc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pilla(at)emmanuel.espinc.com (Michael Pilla) |
| Subject: | Hint on Riveting the F-419 Plates |
Well, last night I was trying to figure out how to rivet the F-419
plates that must be bucked "blind" in the RV-4 fuselage.
Van's manual says to insert some foam behind a bucking bar, slip it in,
and go at it.
Well, I used a relatively thin piece of stock that fellow builder, Jim
Perucca used. But, in place of "normal" foam, I used some TemperFoam.
I figured that the TemperFoam would give as I forced the bucking bar
between it and the flange of the F-404 (and, later, the F-405) bulkhead.
I also figured that the driving force of the rivet gun would be resisted
by the TemperFoam. I couldn't believe it, it worked; nice rivets.
Basically, I stuffed enough foam that I had to really push hard against
it to insert the bucking bar between the foam and the flange. Then, I
placed the AN470AD4-5 rivet into the hole of the relatively thick F-419
plate. I then took my rivet gun and pressed as hard as I could against
the gun and I could see the rivet's manufactured head seat tight against
the F-419 plate. A burst of the trigger and I had a very nicely set rivet.
Probably already discovered by others on the list, but I didn't see a
posting and thought I would share.
BTW, I got the foam from an RC-Modeler who had it. I stongly suspect that
the small amount you need can be obtained from a modeler or a hobby shop.
Mike Pilla
pilla(at)espinc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net> |
Hey, all you master mechanics out there--
Just want to verify that I'm reading the table correctly. When attaching
the HS411PP assembly to the HS rear spar with (4) AN3-5A bolts and
AN365-1032 nuts/washers, the table says to tighten to 20-25 inch-pounds.
I did, but that doesn't seem very tight. Any thoughts?
Thanks.
--Don McNamara
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Drilling rib stiffeners |
On 07-26-96 rv-list(at)matronics.com wrote to degirolamo...
r > From: 1:13/10
r >
r > From: showpg.mn.org!jpl(at)matronics.com (Joe Larson)
r > Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
r >
r > I've been working on my wing spars. One process involves drilling the
r > 5/8" aluminum angle stiffeners. Each stiffener is attached with two
r > bolts -- one at each end. The location of the stiffeners is somewhat
I used a method of locating the holes for the rib stiffeners which worked
very well for me....
After finding out that there are some ribs that have to be moved in order
to keep the holes which attatch the stiffeners to the spar (bolts) on the
centerline (my kit does not have pre-drilled skins)
1. clamp a piece of angle to the leading edge rib to make sure that there
is enough clearance for the bolt. Move the rib inboard or outboard if
necessary.
2. drill the leading edge rib to the spar flange ( pilot hole #41)
3. remove the leading edge rib.
4 mark a centerline on the main rib flange
5. locate main rib to spar, moving fore or aft to maintain skin flow, when
the mark appears in the pilot holes clamp it there.
6. Drill the main rib to spar (# 41, using pilot holes)
7. cleco leading edge and main ribs to spar.
8. clamp and drill angle to leading edge rib
At this point I made up a locating centerpunch to fit in the bolt
holes... .186"...( a friend with a lathe can help you here)...that leaves a
centermark on the angle for your bolt hole.
9. Take your NEW CENTERPUNCH and insert from the bottom, mark the angle for
the bolt hole. Remove the angle from rib, drill undersize and ream to #12.
Put all pieces back on spar, install bolts , drill remaining pilot holes to
size.
TaDa! everything lines up perfectly......warning!......make sure to mark the
rib sets and angle before taking them all off and putting in a pile to
prime.
Marc DeGirolamo (Rv-4 # 3289)
Tail done
wings built... fuel tanks next (sealing ..yuk)
controls to finish (close)
fuse in jig
Marc.Degirolamo@140-15.mx1.fidonet.org
... OFFLINE 1.40 * RV-4 for fun
--
|Fidonet: Marc Degirolamo 1:140/15
|Internet: Marc.Degirolamo@140-15.mx1.fidonet.org
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his/her own.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | blpzx(at)pacifier.com (John Kimmel) |
| Subject: | Re: Fixing elongated rivet holes? |
>How do you recommend ironing out the metal? I tried a flush set in
>the gun, and a bucking bar behind. This didn't do that good a job,
>and had a tendency to thin out the metal (I noticed the thinning at
>the edge of the rib flange, and quit before I did any real damage).
>
>Another question: Is there a tool that will bring the various layers
>of metal together tightly when riveting? I know I seem to be
>describing a C-clamp, but there are areas (like the edge of a rib
>flange) where you just can't get both a clamp and the rivet
>set/bucking bar at the same time.
>
>In my mind, I've got this picture of a bucking bar with a hole in it
>that's 1.49d deep. This would be placed on the work so that the
>bucktail goes in the hole. When set, the rivet would bottom out in
>the hole and swell slightly, but before it gets too fat, the bar
>itself would hit the metal, tend to close all the gaps, and the fat
>rivet would glue the whole thing together. Then, you could switch to
>a normal bucking bar and finish the job. Does such a system exist?
>What's a source for "A" rivets? I haven't seen them in the Spruce
>catalog. Did I miss something?
>
>>Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the CS-4, MD-42, etc. rivets
>WERE structural. Is this not the case?
>
>Thanks for all your help!
>
>Best regards,
>
>Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com
>RV-6A #24751
>Skinning the HS...
>
>
Hello Brian,
I'm glad my reply raised more questions than it answered! I browsed through
several other replies, too, I'm new to this list and I'm happy to see so
much good information available. We have limitations, however. I can only
explain so much through email text, I could fax you some diagrams and
drawings, but what you really need is experience. Everything "right" thing
I've learned about aircraft sheet metal I learned by exploring all the other
possibilities, sometimes in excruciating detail. This doesn't mean that my
"right" way will work for anyone else, I hope I can point you in the right
direction, give you a few references, boost your confidence...
Getting to your questions-- I can only answer generally since rivets in
different locations require different techniques--
Ironing out the hole:
Your technique for ironing out the hole is exactly the right one, provided
you tapped _veeerrrrry_ gently. You can also use a ball peen hammer backed
up with the bucking bar. There's another response on the rv list describing
this procedure.
Drawing various layers together.
1) Shimming: Pretty self-explanatory, but shimming is not just to improve
the appearance, poorly fitting parts can concentrate stress and lead to
cracking.
2) Wingnut or "draw" clecos: These will provide considerably more clamping
pressure than ondinary spring clecos.
3) Small Cleco spring clamps, hemostats, etc. will fit into tight areas. I
also recommend vise-grip clamps. I don't personally use c-clamps. You can
also get extra long sets, you can grind down your rivet sets, get Boeing
"mushroom" sets, re-shape bucking bars-- there's a million things you can do
to get into a tight area.
Finesse: There's also a technique for drawing layers together while
riveting, it's called the "swell and set" method (similar to your special
bucking bar idea). To do it, insert the rivet, drive it _lightly_ to swell
it _slightly_, place the bucking bar to the side, drive _lightly_ again to
draw the layers together ("set"), then finish off the rivet. This method
requires considerable skill and chutzpah, it's usually done with two people.
Finally, under ordinary circumstances, layers will come together of their
own accord as you drive the rivets (sometimes).
The Bucking Bar
There is a bucking bar such as you describe, but it is used strictly for
making nice looking shop heads and nothing else. Actually, they're not used
anymore. Such a tool as you visualize wouldn't be practical because there
are too many variables in rivet length, getting a bar on the rivet, rivet
size, etc. There is, however, a tool called a "back riveting set", which
does exactly what you want. This is just a flush set with a spring loaded
collar around it. It's used to drive the shop head side of the rivet while
a bucking bar is held against the formed head; the spring loaded collar
forces the layers together.
"A" rivets.
They are available in my Aircraft Spruce catalog (dated 1993), right next to
the "AD" rivets on the chart. The price is higher, which is gross price
gouging. Don't pay! _Somebody_ will have them, they'll _give_ them to you,
you only need a few.
Let me say again...
THE "POP" RIVETS PROVIDED IN THE KITS ARE NOT NOT NOT NOT STRUCTURAL RIVETS!
They are not pedigreed! They are not aviation! They are crudely made, the
countersink is at the wrong angle, they are hollow, and they are CHEAP CHEAP
CHEAP!!! Aviation grade blind rivets are finely made, stronger, very
finicky about installation and storage, and very, very expensive (at least
.45 each, Van's sells them for .84, AC Spruce $1 each... ROBBERY,
ROBBERY!!!). I hate them, too. Blind rivets, whether they are aviation
grade or the hardware variety, are more difficult to install, much more
difficult to remove, and they don't hold up very well, especially in oily,
vibrating or fatiguing areas.
I don't recommend replacing your kit supplied pop rivets with aviation grade
(Cherrymax) rivets, it just wouldn't be worth the expense. That's what the
big "Experimental" placard in clear view of any potential passengers is for.
They'll probably work ok in the areas where they are used, but most of them
can be replaced with solid rivets. There's no problem with using them for
things like upholstery and engine baffling fabric, I'm just not going to use
them in my airplane.
As for references:
AC 42.13 pts 1a&2a Inspection, Repair, Alteration
AC 65.15a Airframe Handbook
AC 65.9a General Handbook
TM55-408, Fundamentals Of Airframe Maintence (Army publication from which
the AC's were derived) (if you can get it anywhere).
Standard Aircraft Handbook
These books are good for reference if you're completely without a clue.
They're also pretty cheap. They'll give you a starting point, but their big
limitation is in the way they restrict flexibility. TM55-408, for example,
gives a very specific procedure for drilling out rivets-- a procedure which
_nobody_ uses in the real world. My own bible is the Boeing Structural
Repair Manual, which gives requirements for repairs, rather than specific
procedures for making them. There's just no substitute for experience, but
you can benefit from other peoples experience thru this list, builders
groups, EAA chapters, and networking. The main thing is to get in there and
do it, make your mistakes, buy the replacement parts (or fabricate them) and
do it over again until it is good enough.
John Kimmel
blpzx(at)pacifier.com
Making fuselage formblocks, RV-3.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Panel Planner Software |
All:
At Sun 'n Fun, a company called Interactive Solutions was demoing a
program called Panel Planner, an instrument panel design program. I bought
the program, and now have had a chance to play with it a while.
It *is* a cool program. The database includes full-color graphic images of
just about every instrument and avionics you could possibly want to put in
an RV. And it is easy to use. You just pick the rddio or instrument from
a list, and presto! it appears in the middle of your panel. You then drag
it to the spot you want it.
My opinion is that the program is good for daydreaming and general layout
work, but it needs some work before it could be called a serious tool. To
make it a serious tool, I think it needs:
1. While it supports a grid overlay to make lining things up easier, the
grid needs to be on some common dimension. Say every 1 inch or half inch.
2. There needs to be a 'snap-to' function that will automatically align the
centers or edges of the radios an instruments with the aforementioned grid.
3. It needs an option to replace all instruments and radios with whole
cutouts, and then be able to print or plot it full size with dimensions.
4. It would be REAL NICE if it could output an AutoCAD file that I could
put on a disk and hand to the machine shop along with my blank panel.
5. The RV-6 panel in the program has had its lower edge extended downward
about 1-1/2 inches. That's fine if that's what you are going to do, but it
would be nice to have a stock panel.
6. There are several places on the RV-6 panel you cannot put stuff because
there is structure behind the panel. (The 3/4 inch angle all around the
upper edge, for example.) Some of these 'off-limits' areas differ between
slider and tilt-up canopies. The program does not prohibit you from
putting an instrument in any of these areas.
Don't get me wrong. This program is a really good way to see if everything
will fit, and to find a pleasing layout. It's really neat to see your
future panel on the screen and come out of the printer You can even have
fun and plunk in an EFIS if you want. I'm just saying that the program
needs some additional features to be complete.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
That's all that is predrilled on mine too. Use that hole with a bolt to
cinch up the doubler plate, spar, spacer and rib then drill the whole
assembly using the spar holes as a guide.
----------
From: ionet.net!rdunn(at)matronics.com[SMTP:ionet.net!rdunn(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 1996 3:54 PM
Subject: RV-List: R-410PD not
Did any of you pre-punched tail kitters receive your rudder horn (R-405PD)
that was actually PD (pre-drilled)? Mine only has the rod end hole
drilled.
I can't tell from the manual when I'll need to use the 3/16 and 1/8 holes.
It sure is the pits not having the rest of the drawings to refer to.
Ron (wrestling with the rudder)
Ron Dunn (RV-8 #80078)
rdunn(at)ionet.net
Broken Arrow, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jan Coulter <Jan(at)claver.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Low-Flame Materials |
In message , Elon Ormsby
writes
>REGARDING Low-Flame Materials
>
>
>
> Polymer Technologies Inc.
> 420 Corporate Blvd.,
> Pencader Corporate Center
> Newark, DE 19702
> 800/850-9001
>
>I have not association, in any manner, with this company. Since this was a
This is interesting - Can you please give me the FAX number and(or)
normal phone number to this company - I am not able to ring a 800 number
from England.
--
Jan Coulter RV6 builder England
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Torquing bolts |
>Hey, all you master mechanics out there--
>
>Just want to verify that I'm reading the table correctly. When attaching
>the HS411PP assembly to the HS rear spar with (4) AN3-5A bolts and
>AN365-1032 nuts/washers, the table says to tighten to 20-25 inch-pounds.
>I did, but that doesn't seem very tight. Any thoughts?
>
>Thanks.
>
>--Don McNamara
>
Don:
Over torqued bolts are a common error. Read the chart and torque to specs.
Believe the chart.
See Ya:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Torquing bolts |
>Just want to verify that I'm reading the table correctly. When attaching
>the HS411PP assembly to the HS rear spar with (4) AN3-5A bolts and
>AN365-1032 nuts/washers, the table says to tighten to 20-25 inch-pounds.
>I did, but that doesn't seem very tight. Any thoughts?
>--Don McNamara
Don, Interesting, isn't it? My thoughts---That 99 % of the AN3 bolts in
aircraft are over-torqued. 25 inch pounds can easily be achieved using a
socket on the end of a driver handle. Twist very hard with a short handle,
1/4 inch drive rachet and you can shear the bolt. I use "Torque seal" on
the nuts so I can visually check that torque has not been lost on all of my
bolt/nut installations. Bob Skinner BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
| Subject: | RV-LIST Overload |
RV>I understood I was no longer on the list but found 190 messages on my
RV>return out of town.
RV>When and how do I get some relief??????
Dear anonymous poster:
I figured that you would have received many, many responses to you post,
but seeing none, let me see if I can offer a few suggestions....
1. You can unsubscribe from the rv-list by sending a message with the
word "unsubscribe" (without the quotes) as the **only** word in the body
of the message to rv-list-request(at)matronics.com
2. You should check your e-mail account before you leave it for days at
a time to make sure that your "unsubscription" took hold... especially
if it is critical to you that e-mail messages not pile up while you are
gone.
3. There are times when the list crashes for whatever reason that the
mailing list must be restored from a master list. The master list might
not be completely, up-to-the-minute current. So, you could unsubscribe
on Tuesday afternoon, something could happen to the list on Tuesday
night and the list could be restored using a master list of subscribers
from Monday. In this case, even if you did everything right to
unsubscribe, you could wind up back on the list. There's not much you
(or anyone else) can do about this one. Chalk it up to life. If this
possibility really, really bothers anyone out there, I'd suggest
professional guidance.
To avoid excessive numbers of messages in general, you should consider
the following:
1. Don't post messages complaining about the list or its operation
directly to the whole list mailing address. This only makes it worse for
all of us. If you have an honest question and not one that is rhetorical
in nature, you should consider sending it to the list administrator
directly. His address can be found in the FAQ's that were mailed to you
when you initially subscribed to this list... which brings me to the
next point...
2. Read the FAQ's that you were sent. If you don't have the FAQ's
anymore, watch the list for a little bit and Matt Dralle, the list
administrator, will eventually post something to the list. His signature
line includes his e-mail address. Another alternative to posting
questions to the entire list is to pick someone who posts to the list
and includes his e-mail address (see #3, below) and send your question
directly to that person. If that person can't help, I bet they know
somebody who can.
3. ... and this is a big one for me... Include your _name_ and, more
importantly, your e-mail address in your signature when you post to the
list. Many people (myself included) have e-mail software that does not
include the sender's true e-mail address automatically. For example,
your most recent post showed up on my computer as being "from" the
rv-list only, not your personal e-mail address. If you include your
address, then personal replies such as this one can be sent personally
rather than to the entire list.
This is not meant to be a personal attack on you, the sender, (whoever
you are), but rather, an explanation and an offer of assistance.
To Matt, if you're listening, this is a great list! In hindsight, I
should have listed you as the person who most influenced me to buy an
RV-kit. I doubt I would have taken the plunge if it wasn't for the
availability of this list. Keep up the good work.
Best to all,
Rod Woodard
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
Loveland, Colorado
RV-8, #80033
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elon_Ormsby <e671275(at)popsicle.llnl.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Low-Flame Materials |
(snip)
Polymer Technologies Inc.
>> 420 Corporate Blvd.,
>> Pencader Corporate Center
>> Newark, DE 19702
>> 800/850-9001
>This is interesting - Can you please give me the FAX number and(or)
>normal phone number to this company - I am not able to ring a 800 number
>from England.
>--
>Jan Coulter RV6 builder England
------------------------------------
Sorry, Jan I threw out the magazine since I have literature comming. I don't
remember seeing a fax in the add.
I'll post info after I receive the literature. Or you can snail mail. I
thought an "800" number would be a big help - little did I know it would not
work off-shore.
-Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-LIST Overload |
>--------------
>RV>I understood I was no longer on the list but found 190 messages on my
>RV>return out of town.
>
>RV>When and how do I get some relief??????
>
>Dear anonymous poster:
>
>I figured that you would have received many, many responses to you post,
>but seeing none, let me see if I can offer a few suggestions....
>
>1. You can unsubscribe from the rv-list by sending a message with the
>word "unsubscribe" (without the quotes) as the **only** word in the body
>of the message to rv-list-request(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
>Best to all,
>
>Rod Woodard
>RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
>Loveland, Colorado
>RV-8, #80033
>--------------
Ron,
This was an excellent summary of the basic List operation! I think that
I may add some of your text to the FAQ. Now, if I could just get people
to read it... :-)
Matt Dralle
RV-List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith A. Fleming" <kfleming(at)texas.net> |
Phil Arter wrote:
>
> Any good rumors about when Van's will start taking orders for RV-8 wing kits?
>
> Phil
> arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu
Phil,
I called Van's yesterday to find out about availability of Empennage
kits(no wait) and the girl mentioned that they would be selling wing
kits at Oshkosh.
regards,
Keith Fleming (SAT)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Torquing bolts |
>Hey, all you master mechanics out there--
>
>Just want to verify that I'm reading the table correctly. When attaching
>the HS411PP assembly to the HS rear spar with (4) AN3-5A bolts and
>AN365-1032 nuts/washers, the table says to tighten to 20-25 inch-pounds.
>I did, but that doesn't seem very tight. Any thoughts?
>
>Thanks.
>
>--Don McNamara
>
>
My 'Standard Aircraft Handbook' states 20-25 in/pounds for 10-32 nuts/bolts.
Don't make the mistake I did when tightening the engine mount bolts. I, at
first, thought they meant foot/pounds. When the washer started swaging out
from under the nut I figured there was some kind of problem. An older and
wiser Tech Counselor set me straight; didn't even laugh too much.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Jorgensen <rpjorgen(at)wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> |
I flew to vans yesterday to testfly the rv-6.
I loved the plane and my only question is concerning visibility. Is
there anything that can be done to improve visibility?
I have a long torso and will be sitting high in the cockpit. Is there
any way to build the canopy higher?
thanks
*****************************************************************************
rick jorgensen TANGO TANDEMS/BICYCLE ENGINEERING
email address:rpjorgen(at)wheel.ucdavis.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Torquing bolts |
<< Just want to verify that I'm reading the table correctly. When attaching
the HS411PP assembly to the HS rear spar with (4) AN3-5A bolts and
AN365-1032 nuts/washers, the table says to tighten to 20-25 inch-pounds.
I did, but that doesn't seem very tight. Any thoughts? >>
It doesn't seem like enough, does it? I was amazed when someone first told
me that the chart was in fact correct. Most people wail down on nuts and
bolts way too tight. As you go past the reccomended torque the bolt begins
to stretch, and the diameter goes down, so you end up with a bolt that's
smaller than the hole it's filling.
In automotive applications, extra torque is sometimes used to help keep a
bolt from loosening. However in aircraft apps there is always a secured
fastener.
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling wing spar stiffeners |
<< I have placed my skins on and drilled them with very
little alignment problems (in fact, my wife drilled some of them for
me--am I a lucky guy or what, though she did say to not get used to
it). >>
You Sir are indeed a lucky guy! Glad to see your posting. It's nice when
you get to the place you can offer something useful to other builders. Keep
up the good work!
This is Saturday evening. I and Bruce (the guy who came with me to see your
project) were enroute to Lancaster today about noon and heard you on the
radio 122.75, on your way to Colo. I assume. Tried to call you but our
battery operated handheld was just about out of juice. Hope you had a great
trip, since it will be over when you read this. See you both at Hunter's
Stew.
Jim Stugart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com (Michael McGee) |
| Subject: | Re: demo flight & chatter |
>I flew to vans yesterday to testfly the rv-6.
>
>I loved the plane and my only question is concerning visibility. Is
>there anything that can be done to improve visibility?
>
It's the TRANSPARENT ALUMINUM Fuselage, Engine & Wing option.
Just check the box on the order form ;).
MGM Vancouver, WA sn23530
..boy we sure ain't used to this heat are we!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | inet(at)intellisys.net (brian whatcott) |
| Subject: | Re: Torquing bolts |
>
>Don, Interesting, isn't it? My thoughts---That 99 % of the AN3 bolts in
>aircraft are over-torqued.
///
I use "Torque seal" on
>the nuts so I can visually check that torque has not been lost on all of my
>bolt/nut installations. Bob Skinner BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>
>
>
This is an interesting contribution - there is an 'old school' of thought
that you can't over-torque a bolt by much - because a tension bolt
can be specified to be torqued to its yield point - that's how it develops
maximal holding force: once there of course, further tightening
waists or fractures the bolt ( so I suspect aviation bolts are usually
specified a little more conservatively. )
But the reason I wrote is to ask about torque-seal.
I'm familar with thread-lock liquids - the Loc-tite brand
comes to mind. But t-s seems to offer an indicating capability.
How does this work?
brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
> First off, anyone responding is urged to do so privately since
> this question pertains to priming.
I dunno, these are good questions even though they are about this
tired subject. I'll bet there are a few people left who won't
immediately hit the "delete" key.... :-)
> I know that fisheye is bad cosmetically when you're painting
> the exterior of your plane, but is it bad from an internal
> priming, corrosion control point of view?
I doubt it. You may end up with a small area that isn't quite as well
protected, but so what?
> I get it sometimes
> and haven't found the source (silicones of some sort I assume.)
Sometimes my respirator drips collected moisture onto the surface
and causes fisheyes. That might be it.
> Does it affect the adhesion of the primer to the aluminum?
Maybe, but the way I see it priming is overkill anyway so I
wouldn't worry about a few tiny areas that aren't perfectly
protected. I know I have such areas and if I see them before
the primer is dried I just wipe them with a rag and spray
them again, otherwise they're there to stay.
> Also, what is the desired surface finish after alumiprep? I
> always get a mottled finish with light and dark areas. It seems
> to follow where the bubbles wind up after the initial foaming
> action.
I generally swish it around a lot (with a rag, or in the tub if dipping)
as opposed to just letting it set. This "activates" the stuff more and
makes it clean/etch more uniformly.
> I know the water should sheet off rather than bead.
> It that the main characteristic that tells you you're done?
Yes.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
Editor, Home Wing Newsletter
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | a RESPONSE FROM COMPUSERVE! |
I forwarded all of those messages I was getting from
the Compuserve mailer back to POSTMASTER(at)Compuserve.COM.
I think that finally got their attention as I got
the following response today.
Randall
------------- Begin Forwarded Message -------------
From: POSTMASTER(at)CompuServe.COM
Date: 12 Jul 96 15:17:03 EDT
Subject: Improper Message Handling
I'm sorry about all the problems this has caused. We are
aware of the bug we have and are fixing it as soon as possible.
Our mail software does recognize the Precedence: Bulk header, but
due to the bug for some certain cases the mailer has been ignoring
the header.
Forwarded Message 104-2893
Subj: Improper Message Handling
(8.6.10/5.950515)
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:33:19 -0700
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
info(at)CompuServe.COM
Subject: Improper Message Handling
(Note: I and others have sent requests like this before, but the
problem persists. If this is not the correct address for this request,
please forward it to the proper party.)
Dear Compuserve Postmaster:
This is an urgent request to change your mail software to correctly
handle responses to "Precedence: bulk" messages, i.e. by NOT replying
with "Undeliverable" messages. The below message was improperly
returned by your mail service to hundreds of mailboxes around the
world. The "Precedence: bulk" line in the message indicates that the
message is going to a number of users, in this case, from an e-mail
list that over 500 people are voluntarily subscribed to. Please adjust
your mail handling software to recognize the presence of a "Precedence:
bulk" flag, so it will NOT respond to the broadcast e-mail lists with
these extremely annoying repeat messages. No one on "Precedence: bulk"
e-mail lists give a rip whether user xxx's mailbox is full. Other mail
services correctly handle this type of message, why can't yours?
Randall Henderson
randall(at)edt.com
> Date: 09 Jul 96 21:38:26 EDT
> From: Electronic Postmaster <CompuServe.COM!POSTMASTER(at)matronics.com>
> Comments: Returned from: <102712.2514(at)CompuServe.COM>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: Undeliverable message
>
> Your message could not be delivered for the following reason:
>
> Mailbox 102712.2514 is currently full.
> Please resend your message at a later time.
>
> --- Returned message ---
>
> Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com (uucp2.netcom.com [163.179.3.2]) by
arl-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515)
> Received: from matronics.com by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP (8.6.12/SMI-4.1)
> Received: by matronics.com (4.1/SMI-4.1)
> Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
> Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 17:41:15 -0700
> From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
> Message-Id: <199607100041.RAA02359(at)ultra1.edt.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: plastic coatings on skins
> X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
> Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Precedence: bulk
> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> > I'm having trouble getting the plastic protective coating and glue off some
> > of my wing skins.
>
> Use a hair dryer to heat it up and it'll come right off.
>
> Randall Henderson, RV-6
> Editor, Home Wing Newsletter
> http://www.edt.com/homewing
> randall(at)edt.com
>
>
Distribution:
INTERNET:INFO(at)COMPUSERVE.COM INTERNET:SALES(at)COMPUSERVE.COM
INTERNET:TECH(at)COMPUSERVE.COM
(960710165447 515664.456256 EHK78-24)
------------- End Forwarded Message -------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: demo flight & chatter |
----------
From: Michael McGee[SMTP:teleport.com!jmpcrftr(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 1996 11:11 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re: demo flight & chatter
>I flew to vans yesterday to testfly the rv-6.
>
>I loved the plane and my only question is concerning visibility. Is=20
>there anything that can be done to improve visibility?
>
It's the TRANSPARENT ALUMINUM Fuselage, Engine & Wing option.
Just check the box on the order form ;).
MGM Vancouver, WA sn23530
..boy we sure ain't used to this heat are we!
My suggestion would be a brighter paint job and some extra strobes. =
Those transparent skins are a pain, especially when you get cuts from =
the edges since you can't see them. Also if you forget where you laid =
them down you can hardly find them. If you mark them with one of those =
wipe off markers first it helps. I also heard that inventorying your =
kit when you get it is nearly impossible! Al =
prober(at)iwaynet.net N162NV Res.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com (Stephen Paul Johnson) |
| Subject: | Re: Fixing elongated rivet holes? |
You wrote:
>_nobody_ uses in the real world. My own bible is the Boeing
Structural
>Repair Manual, which gives requirements for repairs, rather than
specific
>procedures for making them. There's just no substitute for
experience, but
How might one obtain a copy?
Steve Johnson
RV-8, Assembling HS skeleton
spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | OSH List... See you there!!! |
Hi Folks
>I'll collate the info and
>repost just before OSH. Then we can all print a copy for our pockets
>and take it along. Should help us to know who to be looking out for!!
HERE 'TIS
N # |TYPE| COLORS | NAME | E-MAIL |ARRIVING
--------------------------------------------------------------------
N517RL| 6A |Dk. Green/Gray |Rob Lee |av8r(at)hic.net | 30th
N517RL| 6A |Dk. Green/Gray |Greg Bordelon|greg(at)brokersys.com| 30th
| | |Joe Lewis|lewisjw(at)hqsocom.af.mil| 31st
N47RV | 3 |Maroon Silver |Jim Ayers |LesDrag(at)aol.com | 31st
N141CC|RV4 |White/Red|Cliff Carpenter|ccarpent(at)pressenter.com|31st
XJ60LJ|Gray motor bike |Mike Nellis|76430.2670(at)compuserve.com|2nd
N77597|J-3 |Red/white |Michael Kosta |mikel(at)dimensional.com|25th
N622DK|Sonerai|Blue & white|Danny Kight |kightdm(at)carol.net | 31st
N666RV| 6A |Blue/Yel(Van's|Jeremy Benedict|jbenedic(at)uofport.edu|29
Driving | |Steve Johnson |spjohnson(at)mmm.com | 3rd
sn24751|6A |under contruc |Brian Yablon |brian(at)lanart.com | 31st
Winnebego| Wht/Blu |Eric Barnes|Barnes_eric(at)tandem.com| 30th
N252CM|HR2 |silver/black | Mark Frederick| mlfred(at)aol.com | 30th
auto | | |Joe Larson |jpl(at)showpg.mn.org | 1st
SIS314 |Tan Saturn wgn |Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com|1st
" | " | Sis Costello | " | 1st
N90AV|Citabria|Blue/Yellow/White|Greg Young|gyoung(at)net1.net |30th
CF-KMV| C-182| Wh&Blu| George McNutt| | 30th
blue Chevy wagon| Steve Mayer | mayer(at)bose.com | 1st
Auto, |to be determined| Bruce Feaver | bfeaver(at)cpnet.net |3rd |
B767|A310|Hertz car| Brian McShurley | bmcshurley(at)sfgate.com | 30th
N45314|C177|White/?|Greg Puckett|71155.2336(at)compuserve.com|29th
N369X | 6 |White/yellow trim| Bob Skinner|BSkinner(at)ltec.net|30th?
N111GS|Bonza|Wh/Yel/Brn|R Wiebener|wiebener.robert(at)tcinc.com|30th
SN2866|RV-4| N/A |Mike Pilla |pilla(at)espinc.com |1st
driving| Bldg./RV-4.|Thomas Boatright | trboatri(at)ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
Regards
Rob Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
I'm having a devil of a time getting the longerons to match the shape of the
fuselage. The curvature of that cut out from p.22 doesn't even come close to
matching up. Is it necessary to trim the tops of F-605 where the longeron
passes? I've got the twists in the longerons ok, but the curvature is way off
in the vicinity F-605. On mine it needs to be bent out 1.5" or so in that
area. Am I the only one to have this problem? What did you do to make it fit?
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Back to the shop to wrestle with it
some more! Thanks Mal rvbildr(at)juno.com ( I thought I was a rv builder 'til
I got to this point!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rdunn(at)ionet.net (Ron Dunn) |
| Subject: | Re: Torquing bolts |
>Hey, all you master mechanics out there--
>
>Just want to verify that I'm reading the table correctly. When attaching
>the HS411PP assembly to the HS rear spar with (4) AN3-5A bolts and
>AN365-1032 nuts/washers, the table says to tighten to 20-25 inch-pounds.
>I did, but that doesn't seem very tight. Any thoughts?
>
>Thanks.
>
>--Don McNamara
>
Don,
After hand tightning my HS411PP assembly to the HS rear spar, I decided to
borrow a torque guage that was calibrated in inch-pounds. While attempting
to remove the nuts, two of the bolts BROKE APART! The other two were
stripped badly!. I thought that I had used only moderate pressure to
install them by 'feel'. Boy did I learn a valuable lesson. Those nuts and
bolts are now displayed in my shop as a reminder.
Ron (wrestling with the rudder)
Ron Dunn [RV-8 #80078] (HS,VS done)
rdunn(at)ionet.net
Broken Arrow, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Torquing bolts |
> But the reason I wrote is to ask about torque-seal.
>I'm familar with thread-lock liquids - the Loc-tite brand
> comes to mind. But t-s seems to offer an indicating capability.
> How does this work?
>
>brian
Brian, Torque Seal (Inspection lacquer) detects loosening of fasteners, etc.
by cracking. Avery sells it for $ 2.50/tube. It's orange color makes it
easy to inspect. Put a little dab between the nut and it's mating surface or
bolt head and mating surface. Some builders use nail polish but I believe
the torque seal is a little better because it dries faster and is thicker so
it doesn't run off.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 6A Quick build beginning experiences |
> I'm "almost" ready to order the quick build kit myself. I was
> wondering about the space necessary for the components when they
> arrive. Will everything fit in a two-car garage? My empenage jig
> takes up part of the space, but it can come down if I don't need it
to
> do the wing.
>
> thanks,
>
> russ
>
I'm using a two car garage (20' x 23') and that appears to be more than
enough room. I underestimated the amount of storage I needed. I now have
built (and use) 6 18" shelves that are 8 feet long, and 3 11" shelves that
are 10 feet long. They're all full of parts.
I'm almost done with the inventory. Almost everything appears to be fine.
The biggest oops to date is that the way Vans packed the wings ended up
crushing a nose rib on one of my wing tips. No biggie, as the rib isn't
riveted in yet, so I'm just gonna ask for a new one or fix the damaged one
(it's not that bad). Unfortunately, the skin is bent there as well (2 - 3"
crease at the tip of each wing). I hope to be able to bend it back in to
shape.
Other quality observations: Most of the work is outstanding quality.
Virtually no scratches on the flight controls, no dents or smiles in sight
(except on my face), most rivets are good quality, and the priming seems to
be of uniform thickness and good coverage. There's one really poor dome head
rivet on the fuselage (I mean really awful, shop head bent over, factory head
bent over) that should have been replaced (I certainly will), and a couple of
places on one aileron have pretty obvious "worm tracks" where the drill bit
ran around. Overall, however, the quickbuild kit's quality is almost
certainly better than I could have done.
Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | frankv(at)pec.co.nz |
| Subject: | Re: Rivets, rivets, rivets! |
>I sat down, did the math, and guess what? The -7s specified are the
>right ones. Who'd have guessed it?
>The moral of this story is: Read the plans, trust the plans.
No! In my RV-6 plans, there's several places (so far... I'm about to
skin my HS) where the plans call for the wrong length rivet. The first
place I struck this was the rivets joining the the centre elevator
bearing (HS-411?).
Get/make a rivet length guage, and use it! Avery's sell one (it was
included in my RV Tail starter kit) --
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcon(at)ix.netcom.com (Robert M. Cornacchia ) |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Planner Software |
You wrote:
>
>All:
> At Sun 'n Fun, a company called Interactive Solutions was demoing a
>program called Panel Planner, an instrument panel design program. I
bought
>the program, and now have had a chance to play with it a while.
>
>It *is* a cool program. The database includes full-color graphic
images of
>just about every instrument and avionics you could possibly want to
put in
>an RV. And it is easy to use. You just pick the rddio or instrument
from
>a list, and presto! it appears in the middle of your panel. You then
drag
>it to the spot you want it.
>
>My opinion is that the program is good for daydreaming and general
layout
>work, but it needs some work before it could be called a serious tool.
To
>make it a serious tool, I think it needs:
>
>1. While it supports a grid overlay to make lining things up easier,
the
>grid needs to be on some common dimension. Say every 1 inch or half
inch.
>
>2. There needs to be a 'snap-to' function that will automatically
align the
>centers or edges of the radios an instruments with the aforementioned
grid.
>
>3. It needs an option to replace all instruments and radios with whole
>cutouts, and then be able to print or plot it full size with
dimensions.
>
>4. It would be REAL NICE if it could output an AutoCAD file that I
could
>put on a disk and hand to the machine shop along with my blank panel.
>
>5. The RV-6 panel in the program has had its lower edge extended
downward
>about 1-1/2 inches. That's fine if that's what you are going to do,
but it
>would be nice to have a stock panel.
>
>6. There are several places on the RV-6 panel you cannot put stuff
because
>there is structure behind the panel. (The 3/4 inch angle all around
the
>upper edge, for example.) Some of these 'off-limits' areas differ
between
>slider and tilt-up canopies. The program does not prohibit you from
>putting an instrument in any of these areas.
>
>Don't get me wrong. This program is a really good way to see if
everything
>will fit, and to find a pleasing layout. It's really neat to see your
>future panel on the screen and come out of the printer You can even
have
>fun and plunk in an EFIS if you want. I'm just saying that the
program
>needs some additional features to be complete.
>
>Best Regards,
>Dave Barnhart
>
>
>
Hi Dave,
How much did this program cost you?
Bob Cornacchia
RV-6 Building wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | blpzx(at)pacifier.com (John Kimmel) |
| Subject: | Re: Exotic Tech Manuals |
>You wrote:
>
>
>>_nobody_ uses in the real world. My own bible is the Boeing
>Structural
>>Repair Manual, which gives requirements for repairs, rather than
>specific
>>procedures for making them. There's just no substitute for
>experience, but
>
>How might one obtain a copy?
>
>Steve Johnson
>RV-8, Assembling HS skeleton
>spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com
>
>
Buy a Boeing Helicopter.
My point in my previous posting is that sheet metal is not a booklearning
kind of thing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Need help locating particular gas strut |
Try Wal-Mart. They have a huge selection of struts.
Jim Cone
jamescone@aolcom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Morristec(at)aol.com |
The reference to the flammability qualities are different between FAR part 23
(small) airplanes and FAR part 25 (large) airplanes. The part 25 airplanes
require self extinguishing maerials in a verticle orientation (burns better
this way)and a controlled smoke emission. The part 23 stuff only has to meet
a max burn rate horizontally. Most fabrics other than gasoline soaked ones
will meet the part 23 requirements (just a joke). I would reccommend the
part 25 fabrics if you intend to permit smoking in the aircraft or are
excessivly worried about fire in the cockpit. Otherwise use the fabrics that
are in all other certified small airplanes, they are al lot cheaper. BTW
100% wool is best for fire and comfort in summer and winter, naturally.
Ref. FAR part 25.853, 25 Appendix F, 23.853.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack Gageby <aj752(at)lafn.lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Easy way to measure/mix proseal? |
Does anyone have recommendations on an easy, quick, and/or simple, way to
accurately measure and mix proseal?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Planner Software |
> How much did this program cost you?
I've been thinking about writing a CAD program designed specifically
for drawing, and doing my panel layout is what I would use as my testbed.
If I did this, I'm wondering how many people out there would be interested
in a copy. It would be UNIX X/Motif based, so it wouldn't run on a PC.
I wouldn't charge anything, but it's kind of a lot of work for just myself,
so it's not something I'm likely to do unless I get a few more people who
also would find use of out of it.
If you would be interested in a copy, please drop me a private line -- email
address in my .sig. If I get enough encouragement, then I'll email back
and forth with those interested to come up with a design and such.
Anything I write would be C++, X11/Motif based, run under UNIX, and I could
provide binaries for Sun Sparc. Output for printing would pretty much be
PostScript, but I could maybe also produce HPGL (Hewlett-Packard Laserjet).
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
Hello all,
Just for Info, I bought most all of my fabric "innards" at Boeing
surplus - I think by the pound..... This included carpet, and the
fabric for seats and side panels also. A lot of the fabric they have
is on huge bolts, and the color/pattern selection was pretty good - or
at least it was the last time I was up there. I think it is the good
stuff too, flame retardent or whatever (well it wouldn't burn when I
put a lighter to it!!!), and since a lot of it had airline logos on
it!!
Gosh - I wish I lived closer to Seattle -
Rob Lee - N517RL - Flying 6A
av8r(at)hic.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bennett" <bennett(at)healey.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: demo flight & chatter |
Can someone explain this? I can't seem to see through it.
Peter
>
>
> ----------
> From: Michael McGee[SMTP:teleport.com!jmpcrftr(at)matronics.com]
> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 1996 11:11 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Re: demo flight & chatter
>
> >I flew to vans yesterday to testfly the rv-6.
> >
> >I loved the plane and my only question is concerning visibility. Is
> >there anything that can be done to improve visibility?
> >
>
> It's the TRANSPARENT ALUMINUM Fuselage, Engine & Wing option.
> Just check the box on the order form ;).
>
>
> MGM Vancouver, WA sn23530
>
> ..boy we sure ain't used to this heat are we!
>
> My suggestion would be a brighter paint job and some extra strobes. Those transparent
skins are a pain, especially when you get cuts from the edges since you
can't see them. Also if you forget where
> you laid them down you can hardly find them. If you mark them with one of those
wipe off markers first it helps. I also heard that inventorying your kit when
you get it is nearly impossible!
> Al prober(at)iwaynet.net N162NV Res.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harold Sutphin <hsutphin(at)magicnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Low-Flame Materials |
Jan,
I used the Switchboard search engine and found this number:
Polymer Technologies Inc...420 Corporate Blvd...Newark, DE 19702-3330
Phone: (302)738-9001
The Switchboard can be handy if you know a name to search on. It can be
found at the following url with your web browser:
http://www.switchboard.com/bin/cgiqa.dll?MG=&BUS=
Harold
RV-6A //Wing kit delivered!
> (snip)
> Polymer Technologies Inc.
> >> 420 Corporate Blvd.,
> >> Pencader Corporate Center
> >> Newark, DE 19702
> >> 800/850-9001
> >This is interesting - Can you please give me the FAX number and(or)
> >normal phone number to this company - I am not able to ring a 800 number
> >from England.
> >--
> >Jan Coulter RV6 builder England
> ------------------------------------
>
> Sorry, Jan I threw out the magazine since I have literature comming. I don't
> remember seeing a fax in the add.
>
> I'll post info after I receive the literature. Or you can snail mail. I
> thought an "800" number would be a big help - little did I know it would not
> work off-shore.
> -Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BDStobbe <70743.2727(at)CompuServe.COM> |
>>Is it necessary to trim the tops of F-605 where the longeron passes?
I certainly had to trim mine. If I remember right, I think that the manual
makes some mention of this requirement (or maybe it was the blueprint, Frank
Justice's instructions, or George Orndorff's video), but I could be wrong.
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6 (N508RV reserved)
70743.2727(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lackerma(at)bigsean.rad.rpslmc.edu (lauren ackerman) |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Planner Software |
Why not write it in JAVA then everyone could use it...or is
this a premature request considering the maturity of
JAVA? This statement is not out of
self interest as I run a UNIX shop.
*****************************************************************
Laurens Ackerman, M.D., Ph.D.
Dept. of Diagnostic Radiology lackerma(at)rad.rpslmc.edu
Rush Pres. St. Lukes Med Cntr. 312 942 5793
1753 W. Congress Pkwy
Chicago, Illinois
*****************************************************************
From owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com Mon Jul 29 00:47:44 1996
Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
From: showpg.mn.org!jpl(at)matronics.com (Joe Larson)
Subject: Re: RV-List: Panel Planner Software
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
X-Lines: 25
> How much did this program cost you?
I've been thinking about writing a CAD program designed specifically
for drawing, and doing my panel layout is what I would use as my testbed.
If I did this, I'm wondering how many people out there would be interested
in a copy. It would be UNIX X/Motif based, so it wouldn't run on a PC.
I wouldn't charge anything, but it's kind of a lot of work for just myself,
so it's not something I'm likely to do unless I get a few more people who
also would find use of out of it.
If you would be interested in a copy, please drop me a private line --
email
address in my .sig. If I get enough encouragement, then I'll email back
and forth with those interested to come up with a design and such.
Anything I write would be C++, X11/Motif based, run under UNIX, and I could
provide binaries for Sun Sparc. Output for printing would pretty much
be
PostScript, but I could maybe also produce HPGL (Hewlett-Packard Laserjet).
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
Fellow Rv'ers:
I'm taking a week off work starting Aug 17 and plan on traveling West, a
part of the country I've not seen from low altitudes. No specific plans, but
would like to see the Rocky Mountains. (The East coast is much flatter!). I
will probably stop in Omaha City the first night (10 Hrs in one day!), but
don't have any specific plans after that. I'm looking for destination
suggestions where I can get my RV-6A into safely (I have a VERY heavy cruise
prop, 160 Hp O-320, so high altitude short runways are probably out of the
question.) I would like to see Leadville Co. (haven't got that t'shirt yet).
I'll probably rent a car and stay in motels where ever I stop, but will bring
some camping gear just in case.
Anybody with any suggestions please email me directly so we don't clutter
up the list. Any and all suggestions are welcome, and an RV ride isn't out of
the question for the builders out there.
Thanks in advance....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
<< flew to vans yesterday to testfly the rv-6.
I loved the plane and my only question is concerning visibility. Is
there anything that can be done to improve visibility?
I have a long torso and will be sitting high in the cockpit. Is there
any way to build the canopy higher?
thanks >>
Try flying the tiltup canopy version. The visibility is better than the
slider....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: -6 sliding canopy call for help |
<< I am just starting on the sliding canopy frames for my -6. What a can of
worms, I think. Or perhaps I am making this too hard. Since I have
numerous
questions, would someone who has done this recently please send me their
phone number and a time I can call them?
>>
Gary Corde
Work 212.441.1225
Home 908.537.7550
The canopy is THE hardest part of an RV-6 and is a pain in the a$$.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Howard's aircraft parts |
<< Watch out ordering from Howard's aircraft. Thier quality is good,
service is bad and I might be out $190.00, but I will continue to call
them! >>
Must be related to Jerry Harold. Same customer service...same fiberglass
parts.
Thanks for the tip (no pun intended)
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Clear Rudder tip |
<< Don't believe it. That tail mounted strobe will be obnoxiously visible at
night, on the rudder tip or not. Turn that thing on at night, and go into
some clouds and you are in for a serious case of vertigo. Been there,
done that, got the T-shirt.
>>
During IFR flight in clouds it is always a good idea to turn off your strobes
regardless of the location of the strobe. Thew flashing could cause vertigo.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Shortening the Flap Handle |
<< I'm working on the installation of the flap handle in my -6a, and
I'm tempted to shorten it a little bit. I've seen in some newsletters
where other builders have done this. >>
I shortened mine by 4 inches. Saves elbow room when full flaps are deployed.
You've got to give the handle a firm pull when deploying full flaps. I
still like the manual flaps over the electric (oh no...how many replys will
this generate...none I hope!!!) flaps because they can deployed/retracted in
about one second. I notice that I can stop shorter when I "dump" my flaps
right after touch-down.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Arter <arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu> |
Keith,
That's interesting, I would think they'd let their builders that have
already bought empennage kits get the first crack at wing kits. The letter
must be in the mail.
Phil
>Phil,
>I called Van's yesterday to find out about availability of Empennage
>kits(no wait) and the girl mentioned that they would be selling wing
>kits at Oshkosh.
>
>regards,
>
>Keith Fleming (SAT)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
| Subject: | Stupid Metal Man Tricks |
Stupid metal workers tricks
Learning metal work isn't just learning how to do it right, we all
sometimes make mistakes and we need to know how to correct them or at
least cover them up cosmetically! (Amazing how good it all looks when
finish painted!). Theres a weath of info about metal working on the
mail list, from some obviously very knowledgeable metal men, so with
some considerable trepidation I take computer in hand to present this:
The most common problem is "figure-eighting" the rivet hole when
drilling out a bad rivet: Other than a supply of the famous
"Figure-Eight" rivets, usually a larger size rivet has to be used, but
"Some People" have been known to put a dab of Bondo in the screwed up
hole along with the rivet, thereby creating the illusion of a
undamaged skin where the rivet now resides. Carefullly wiping the
area clean will help complete the subterfuge! (If the underside of the
hole is too enlarged for the rivet to hold, rivet in a piece of metal
as a back up).
Did you know that metric sized rivets are available? Guess what, they
are a little oversized from US standard AN sizes... Hmmm, food for
thought? The heads, though bigger, are virtually indistiguishable
from their neighbors.....
Metal needs to be pulled together when fastening with rivets. Clecos,
finger clamps and c-clamps do a good job, (I even use bags of sand,
rubber straps and twisted twine), but sometimes the surfaces just
won't hold tigjtly enough for riveting, there's that little space
between them. This procedure requires that you obtain some yellow
plastic body putty squeegees. These are tapered. Cut one into strips
abou a half inch wide and drill rivet sized holes in each end. When
the metal skins need to be pulled tight while riveting, put one of
your little stips over the bucktail end of the rivet, useing a
thickness that makes it just fluxh with the end. Lightly buck the
rivet, the idea beng to "bulb" the bucktail, thereby crerating a
swollen end of the rivet that on the next try, when it is finish
bucked, will pull the metal pieces together tightly. (This works when
a longer rivet must be used to "fill" in an oversized hole, too). Both
work very well and dont require much practice! Other than plastic,
thin sheets of lead work well, too, but I dont like to handle it.
Back riveting: This is my favorite method because miror finished
skins will not be marked while doing this and I beleive work hardening
the buck tail provides a stronger rivet!). It requires a special tool
for banging the bucktail down. I have printed up some info sheets on
this procedure that explains it and more, (info about flushing like
the old timers did it), free for the asking for those wanting more
details: send me email with your mailing address and I'll send you my
hanger sale list of tools, parts and avionics and instrumnets, free!
Sorry no email avail on this yet.
Bill Nash
AIRCRAFT REMANUFACTURING
1291 E. VISTA WAY, #150
VISTA, CA. 92084 (619) 749 0239 FAX: 749 6384
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
| Subject: | Cherry Max Rivets, Cheap Source |
I saw reference in the list to obtaining Cherry Max rivets and thot
those of you who wished to replace those cheapie rivets you got with
your kit with real aircraft quality ones could use this info:
CR3212 & 3213: $29.95 per hundred
CR3523 & 3522: $17.50 " "
Others too. Available from this old retired geezer at
770 438 8728
(Posted as a service, we have no affiliation).
Bill Nash
AIRCRAFT REMANUFACTURING
1291 E. VISTA WAY, #150
VISTA, CA. 92084 (619) 749 0239 FAX: 749 6384
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pilla(at)emmanuel.espinc.com (Michael Pilla) |
| Subject: | Re: Easy way to measure/mix proseal? |
I used a simple balance beam made of a yardstick with a thin piece of
piano wire inserted through the narrow width. I used pennies to balance
it with an empty cup placed at the appropriate place for the ratio needed.
It has been so long, that I can no longer remember the ratio, but it was
simple, and cheap!
Mike Pilla
pilla(at)espinc.com
RV-4, #2866, still trying to fit the canopy frame, sigh!
> Does anyone have recommendations on an easy, quick, and/or simple, way to
> accurately measure and mix proseal?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Standley <Gary_Standley(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com> |
Text item:
I THINK THE PROPER PHRASING BY THE "GIRL" AT VAN'S SHOULD HAVE BEEN THEY WILL
BEGIN TAKING ORDERS, NOT SELLING KITS.
Keith,
That's interesting, I would think they'd let their builders that have
already bought empennage kits get the first crack at wing kits. The letter
must be in the mail.
Phil
>Phil,
>I called Van's yesterday to find out about availability of Empennage
>kits(no wait) and the girl mentioned that they would be selling wing
>kits at Oshkosh.
>
>regards,
>
>Keith Fleming (SAT)
>
>
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Wings?
From: Phil Arter <ncar.ucar.edu!arter(at)matronics.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 08:20:54 -0600
intel.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA01951 for | From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Re: Easy way to measure/mix proseal? |
>Does anyone have recommendations on an easy, quick, and/or simple, way to
>accurately measure and mix proseal?
>
>
>
One tablespoon of white, one quarter teaspoon of black. Mix in plastic cup
with popsicle stick until uniform color.
Ross Mickey
rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
>
><< flew to vans yesterday to testfly the rv-6.
>
> I loved the plane and my only question is concerning visibility. Is
> there anything that can be done to improve visibility?
>
> I have a long torso and will be sitting high in the cockpit. Is there
> any way to build the canopy higher?
>
> thanks >>
I know that Van designed a taller canopy for the planes that went to Nigeria
to accommidate the average height of their pilots. I have no idea how much
of a change was needed to do this. You could call Van's and ask them about
it. What visability are you refering to? Is it while taxing? If so, I
think you have to live with it unless you do what I am doing, build a 6-A.
Great visability on the ground. If its in flight, then it must be a
personal preference thing. When I first flew in a 6 I was amazed at the
visability. Since I was bred in high wings, I was worried about ground
visability. This worried disappeared when I flew.
Ross Mickey
rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
>I'm having a devil of a time getting the longerons to match the shape of the
>fuselage. The curvature of that cut out from p.22 doesn't even come close to
>matching up. Is it necessary to trim the tops of F-605 where the longeron
>passes? I've got the twists in the longerons ok, but the curvature is way off
>in the vicinity F-605. On mine it needs to be bent out 1.5" or so in that
>area. Am I the only one to have this problem? What did you do to make it fit?
>Any help would be greatly appreciated. Back to the shop to wrestle with it
>some more! Thanks Mal rvbildr(at)juno.com ( I thought I was a rv builder 'til
>I got to this point!)
>
Mal.
I had a heck of a time getting the double bend and twist in the longeron. I
was most concerned with it lying flat from F604 aft and having it match the
engine mounts (the second bend and twist). I also wanted to keep station 37
1/4 forward and 68 aft straight. I don't remember having a 1.5 inch
difference at the F605. I did not modify the top of F605. I know I had to
take the longeron out after I had all my bulkheads in place to get it all to
line up nice.
Ross Mickey
rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Oil Cooler Location |
Listers,
I'm starting on the installation of my engine baffles on an RV-6A and was
wondering what experience others have has by mounting the oil cooler on the
baffle behind the #4 cylinder. I'm installing an O-320 D1A (new) with a new
oil cooler from Van's. The RV-4's that are flying in my local EAA chapter
have it mounted here, but the -4's typically run cooler than the -6's.
On the Orndorff's video, they mounted the cooler behind the #4 cyl. and had
to move it to the front of the engine due to excessive oil temp. Van's
recommends mounting it behind the #4 cyl to keep the oil lines short and to
keep the weight back. I'm confused by all of this conflicting info.
I'd appreciate hearing of any experiences related to this (good or bad). On
thing I did notice was that the Orndorff's used 3/8" oil lines. Would 1/2"
lines reduce oil temp if the engine were to run too hot with the cooler
behind the #4?
Thanks in advance.
-Scott N506RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Torquing bolts |
>>
>Don,
>
>After hand tightning my HS411PP assembly to the HS rear spar, I decided to
>borrow a torque guage that was calibrated in inch-pounds. While attempting
>to remove the nuts, two of the bolts BROKE APART! The other two were
>stripped badly!. I thought that I had used only moderate pressure to
>install them by 'feel'. Boy did I learn a valuable lesson. Those nuts and
>bolts are now displayed in my shop as a reminder.
>
>Ron (wrestling with the rudder)
>
>
>
>Ron Dunn [RV-8 #80078] (HS,VS done)
>rdunn(at)ionet.net
>Broken Arrow, OK
>
>
>
Ron,
I read all the warnings AFTER I had bolted all my wing ribs onto the main
spar. I then purchased a torque wrench and found out that EVERY bolt was
over-torqued. They were initially torqued with only a 1/4" ratchet. Just
for fun, I then took an AN 3 bolt, put the torque wrench on it and increased
the torque incrementally until the bolt snapped. It only took about 80-90
in-lbs!!!!!!! After that, I replaced every nut and bolt in the wing spars
(they weren't skinned yet). I sleep better at night now.
-Scott N506RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Elon Ormsby" <Elon.Ormsby(at)quickmail.llnl.gov> |
REGARDING Joe Hine
Joe:
What is your private e-mail address? I have tried but can't get through.
My apologies to the RV-list.
Elon
ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shortening the Flap Handle |
> I shortened mine by 4 inches. Saves elbow room when full flaps are deployed.
> You've got to give the handle a firm pull when deploying full flaps. I
> still like the manual flaps over the electric (oh no...how many replys will
> this generate...none I hope!!!) flaps because they can deployed/retracted in
> about one second. I notice that I can stop shorter when I "dump" my flaps
> right after touch-down.
Gee Gary this sounds like a challenge:-) come on up to Hillsboro, OR
and we will have a flap handle versus electric flap short field
landing contest. :-)
> Gary Corde
> RV-6 N211GC
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) (Hillsboro, OR)
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
I have a -6 with a homemade 4 pipe system,which works fine but is REAL loud.
I know there is a guy in Colorado that makes a crossover system, but I'm
more interested in a 4 into 1. Anybody know where or if there is one
available?
I'm not on the list, so Email me at RV14JA(at)AOL.COM
Jim Anglin
RV-6 first flight 4/22/91
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sheinlein(at)VNET.IBM.COM |
Subject:How about some more responses to that visibility question?
<< flew to vans yesterday to testfly the rv-6.
<<
<| Date: | Jul 29, 1996 |
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Location |
>I'm starting on the installation of my engine baffles on an RV-6A and was
>wondering what experience others have has by mounting the oil cooler on the
>baffle behind the #4 cylinder. I'm installing an O-320 D1A (new) with a new
>oil cooler from Van's. The RV-4's that are flying in my local EAA chapter
>have it mounted here, but the -4's typically run cooler than the -6's.
>
>On the Orndorff's video, they mounted the cooler behind the #4 cyl. and had
>to move it to the front of the engine due to excessive oil temp. Van's
>recommends mounting it behind the #4 cyl to keep the oil lines short and to
>keep the weight back. I'm confused by all of this conflicting info.
>
>I'd appreciate hearing of any experiences related to this (good or bad). On
>thing I did notice was that the Orndorff's used 3/8" oil lines. Would 1/2"
>lines reduce oil temp if the engine were to run too hot with the cooler
>behind the #4?
>-Scott N506RV
Scott, I was going to try to mount the cooler behind cylinder 4 but really
couldn't figure out an elegant way to mount it. It wouldn't fit flush to
the baffle, there was interference with the engine mount which was a
dynafocal. It fits fine with the conical mount. I decided to mount the
cooler on the left front horizontal baffle. I felt that this would move a
little weight forward, which is generally needed on a RV-6 with a wood prop.
I have never had a problem with high temps. I did have problems getting oil
temp high enough in the winter. I fabricated a door, which is activated by
a button lock control cable, so that I can adjust the temp. In the winter,
I fly with the door completely closed and, if it is around 10 degrees F.,
still have trouble getting the oil temp high enough. Bob Skinner RV-6
BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Boudro" <dboudro(at)pop.nmia.com> |
Fred,
You're welcome to stop by here if you get a chance. I have a room you
can use for a few days but only one car. Double Eagle is a great airport
and leaving your RV tied-down would be very safe. Have fun! :-)
Dan Boudro
Albuquerque, NM
RV-4 N9167Z
home 505.275.3179
office 505.889.7241
----------
> From: aol.com!WStucklen(at)matronics.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Travel
> Date: Monday, July 29, 1996 7:26 AM
>
> Fellow Rv'ers:
>
> I'm taking a week off work starting Aug 17 and plan on traveling
West, a
> part of the country I've not seen from low altitudes. No specific plans,
but
> would like to see the Rocky Mountains. (The East coast is much
flatter!). I
> will probably stop in Omaha City the first night (10 Hrs in one day!),
but
> don't have any specific plans after that. I'm looking for destination
> suggestions where I can get my RV-6A into safely (I have a VERY heavy
cruise
> prop, 160 Hp O-320, so high altitude short runways are probably out of
the
> question.) I would like to see Leadville Co. (haven't got that t'shirt
yet).
> I'll probably rent a car and stay in motels where ever I stop, but will
bring
> some camping gear just in case.
> Anybody with any suggestions please email me directly so we don't
clutter
> up the list. Any and all suggestions are welcome, and an RV ride isn't
out of
> the question for the builders out there.
> Thanks in advance....
>
> Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
> wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Speaking of flaps |
RVer's: This should be interesting---The flap wars of '96, Jerry vs. Gary.
Better than primer wars!
Speaking of flaps. I tried something the other day on my six that I used
to do on my 235 hp Maule. To make really short take offs, Maule pilots
would stand on the brakes, feed in full power, start the roll with no flaps
on and once the tail was up and the appropriate speed reached, pulled the
flaps on. The Maule would leap off of the ground. I used a similar
procedure but didn't stand on the brakes and feed in full power. To hard on
the airplane, I felt. I tried this with my 150 hp RV-6. Couldn't really
tell much of a difference. One problem--with my left hand on the stick and
the right hand pulling flaps, I found that I had trouble holding the stick
steady. The controls on the Maule are not sensitive, the RV's are. Anyway,
not the most gracefull take-offs.
I would be interested in comments concerning flaps for take off and
landing. How do others' use flaps. I tell you what I've been doing and I'd
appreciate comments or suggestions. I've not done any scientific study on
this subject so most of my opinions are just gut feel.
For a short or soft field take off, I use one notch of flaps and I don't
use this procedure often as I spend most of my time on hard surface, long
runways. In strong cross winds, I use no flaps as I feel that extending
flaps might contribute to weather vaning.
At high density altitudes, it seemed that a no flaps take off resulted in
greater acceleration and a better rate of climb. For landings, I generally
use one notch of flaps and use full flaps if I'm a little high. It seems
that full flaps is 100% drag with no additional lift.
Here's another problem I run into, occasionally. After the tail is up and
I have enough airspeed to rotate, when I do rotate, the tail wheel will
sometimes contact the ground and it seems like the airplane just doesn't
want to come unstuck. this would be in a no flaps situation. Anyone else
had this problem? BTW, I'm using the Aviation Products tail wheel and I
wonder if this is part of the problem. I made a comparrison between this
tailwheel and the standard one and the A.P. tail wheel sets the tail up 1
1/2 inches when measured at the end of the tail wheel weldment.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
>I have never flown in an RV and am currently building a 6/6A.
>My background is solely in Cessnas (152, 172, 182) and so I've never
>been bothered with a visibility problem.
>
>I intend to take a few demo rides before I order the fuselage kit, so
>I can decide between the 6 and the 6A. But, just out of curiousity,
>IS there a visibility "problem" (boy, I sure hesitate to use that word)
>with the RV's?
>
>Sounds like the tip-up might be better off than the slider? And, on
>the ground, I'm assuming the 6A is better off than the 6?
>
>I'm guessing that any visibility problem while in flight is strictly
>related to shielding of the ground by the wings? And so, is not a
>"problem" with the RV's, but is rather a "characteristic" of all
>low-wing aircraft? I assume I'll get used to this, just as I'm used
>to not being able to see what's going on above me in a Cessna?
>Stephen Heinlein
Stephen, As a former high-wing pilot, I can assure you that there is nothing
like the visibility out of the RV canopy. Perhaps the previous poster was
refering to visibility out of the slider. The windshield bow and upright
support do encumber visibility, somewhat, although, for a Cub or Maule
pilot, the slider has great visibility. I much prefer the view out of the
tilt up, however. Nothin to spoil the view. (It's more attractive as
well---Oops, flame bait.) Visibility during taxi is much better in a 6-A,
of course. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Easy way to measure/mix proseal? |
>>From: Jack Gageby <lafn.lafn.org!aj752(at)matronics.com>
>>Does anyone have recommendations on an easy, quick, and/or simple, way to
>>accurately measure and mix proseal?
This is what I did and would do again. I used 6 oz plastic yogurt cups
to measure and mix the proseal components. I used an inexpensive
dieter's scale and mixed about 100-150 grams at a time using a new cup
for each batch. I used "popsicle" sticks (craft sticks found at a
local craft store) for stirring and application.
Bob Hall, rjhall(at)kktv.com
jigging the fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Conical vs Dynifocal Engine Mounts, Narrow Deck |
The amount of vibration that comes from the conical mount is noticible as
compared to the dynafocal mount. My hangar-mates each have RV-4's with the
two mounting systems as well as ballanced props. The dynafocal is smoother.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fixing elongated rivet holes? |
The way I see it you have two choices:
1) Fill the hole with a pop rivet and put a solid rivet 1/2 inch or so next
to it.
2) Drill it out to 3/16 and use a bolt. If it will work it will be stronger.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | High Altitude Performance |
RV'ers:
Ok, here's a new thread that will certainly help me on my trip to the
Rockies. How about a RV density altitude performance comparison. I have a 160
Hp Lycolming (Carbureted) with a 72X79 Metal Sensenich prop (definately
CRUISE). At 1650 lbs, what can I expect for takeoff /landing rolls and climb
performance at different density altitudes? What kind of performance
improvements do I get at lighter loads? Has anybody done any comparisons to
other aircraft? Has anybody on the list with a similar setup flown into high
altitude airports?
Thanks in advance....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Newman" <bn(at)poseidon.crosslink.net> |
| Subject: | FS MA4 Carb/ Mag |
For Sale, with EXCHANGE for same brand/part core only.
Marvel Schebler MA4-SPA carb PN 10-5009N Ser L198058
Rebuilt 7/93 by Mattituck, with venturi and metal float service
bulletins. Has the following stamps: MF, V, 14, 21. Functioning
perfectly when removed 7/96. Less than 50 hours since rebuild.
Avgas only. $325 OBO exchange.
Slick 4371 (impulse coupling) Mag. SN 92050079. New 7/93. Functioning perfectly
when removed 7/96. Less than 50 hours since new. Like new except
for 1 area the size of a quarter where factory paint has popped.
$225 OBO exchange.
Bob Newman
bn(at)crosslink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougweil(at)pressenter.com (Doug Weiler) |
| Subject: | Re: Easy way to measure/mix proseal? |
I used this method with no problem:
Mix 1 tablespoon of the black stuff with 1/8 teaspoon of the white stuff.
This is the recommended mixture when using the volume method. Use cheap
metal measuring spoons.
No leaks in my tanks...
Doug Weiler, MN Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
>Subject:How about some more responses to that visibility question?
>
>
>
>I intend to take a few demo rides before I order the fuselage kit, so
>I can decide between the 6 and the 6A. But, just out of curiousity,
>IS there a visibility "problem" (boy, I sure hesitate to use that word)
>with the RV's?
>
>Sounds like the tip-up might be better off than the slider? And, on
>the ground, I'm assuming the 6A is better off than the 6?
>
>I'm guessing that any visibility problem while in flight is strictly
>related to shielding of the ground by the wings? And so, is not a
>"problem" with the RV's, but is rather a "characteristic" of all
>low-wing aircraft? I assume I'll get used to this, just as I'm used
>to not being able to see what's going on above me in a Cessna?
>
>C'mon... all you builders that are now flyers... let's hear it!
>
>Thanks! :)
>
>Stephen Heinlein
>6/6A riveting second main wing spar
>(applying the elbow grease with a C-Frame, 3 lb. hammer & 5 blows per rivet!)
>sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com
>
I didn't respond earlier since I thought the original poster was kidding us
around.
If the 'problem' is visibility while taxiing then either build a 6A or
'waggle' your tail as you taxi. Or---just do like me. I have a long torso
and short legs and my problem is that my head clears the canopy (tilt-up) by
only 1/2". I simply look over the nose as I taxi. I can see the taxiway
about 60 to 70 feet in front of the RV; passengers usually comment that they
can't see anything.
If you're worried about seeing below you just tip the RV up on a wing. I've
got a picture of the building where I work that I took from my RV; no wing
in sight yet the picture is taken almost straight down.
About what can be done if you have a long torso---- I use about 2 inches of
foam in my seat cushion. If I needed more head room I'd cut that back to
about 1 1/4". Also, if you put the seat back all the way back at the top
and in the middle or front position at the bottom you'll gain quite a lot of
head room. For a person with a real problem I believe you can dish out the
floor ribs to gain a little more room. I'd check with Van's before making
any modifications in this area, though.
Now, if you're really big like Hulk Hogan or whatever maybe the -8 would fit
you better. I'm not comfortable in the -4, myself.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Easy way to measure/mix proseal? |
>> Does anyone have recommendations on an easy, quick, and/or simple, way to
>> accurately measure and mix proseal?
>>
I used a small food scale, calibrated to read 0 with a mixing cup in the tray.
Five ounces of the off-white stuff and 1/2 ounce of the black yielded enough for
a work session. I found no easy way to mix it, that stuff is thick enough to
make you really strain your wrists to stir it.
PatK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
Sorry, I forgot something else. John, if you would get me your email
address, I will give you the postal address to send that magazine.
Otherwise, you can send it to me, c/o American International Airways,
Inc., 842 Willow Run Airport, Ypsilanti, MI 48198-0899, USA. Thanks,
and good luck on your project.
Sorry to the rest of you folks, and a reminder to everyone to check your
mail header for the correct reply address.
PatK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Location |
>Listers,
>
>I'm starting on the installation of my engine baffles on an RV-6A and was
>wondering what experience others have has by mounting the oil cooler on the
>baffle behind the #4 cylinder. I'm installing an O-320 D1A (new) with a new
>oil cooler from Van's. The RV-4's that are flying in my local EAA chapter
>have it mounted here, but the -4's typically run cooler than the -6's.
>
I mounted the oil cooler in back of #4 on my RV-6 with 150 HP E2A, fixed
pitch wood prop. I've blocked about 2/3rds of the back of the cooler in
order to _raise_ my oil temp. Even with this much blocked I can't get into
the green in the winter; in the summer it will get to about the top 3rd of
the green.
I've thought about installing a 'door' on the air intake to the oil cooler
but haven't done so yet.
I did install the Oberg oil filter and that may have an effect on my oil
temperature. The designer of the filter says that it will cool your oil 15
to 20 degrees. Don't know how much it is cooling the oil but I am sure that
it isn't 'heating' the oil.
Most RV's tend to run cool. With all that 180 MPH air flowing past the
engine it's not surprising.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
>
>Stephen, As a former high-wing pilot, I can assure you that there is nothing
>like the visibility out of the RV canopy. Perhaps the previous poster was
>refering to visibility out of the slider. The windshield bow and upright
>support do encumber visibility, somewhat, although, for a Cub or Maule
>pilot, the slider has great visibility. I much prefer the view out of the
>tilt up, however. Nothin to spoil the view. (It's more attractive as
>well---Oops, flame bait.) Visibility during taxi is much better in a 6-A,
>of course. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
Then again you could build the ultimate in visibility, a 4 (I may be
slightly biased) :)
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Pitot Tube Reply |
Sorry to patch this to the list, but a John Cocker sent me a note
regarding the pitot tube I am installing, and the return email address is
incorrect. John, the header says emailid(at)interhop.net; that can't be
right.
Anyway, I have no info out on my pitot tube installation yet. The tube
is the $120+ heated unit from Aircraft Spruce. My only cash outlay has
been for a foot of streamline tubing and a set of 1/4" couplings and
sleeves. I fabricated the mount from the tubing and a small amount of
.050 aluminum sheet that I had lying around. There will be pictures in a
month or so on my page, but I am still in the process of installing the
mount and skinning the wing. The problem with building so slowly is that
the rolls of film don't get used up as often. Sorry to keep you waiting.
PatK - RV-6A - still bogged down in plumbing details
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | RPM rises with boost pump on |
I have a strange phenomenon on my (just flown) 6a. It is equipped with
Bendix fuel injection and a high pressure boost pump plumbed in
parallel with the mechanical pump. What happens is that at idle around
800 rpm for now...still tweaking...if I put onthe pump, the rpm goes up
by about 200. I noticed it first on final approach when I just
couldn't get the revs down then confirmed it on the ground.
This of course SHOULDN'T happen!
Anyone got any ideas.
Ken
6A with about 3 hours on it!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Planner Software |
> Why not write it in JAVA then everyone could use it...or is
> this a premature request considering the maturity of
> JAVA? This statement is not out of
> self interest as I run a UNIX shop.
JAVA? I'm not a JAVA programmer.
-J
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Easy way to measure/mix proseal? |
For mixing, I made a .063 aluminum popsicle stick. Each end had a different
radius for working Pro seal into corners. I got tired of breaking popsicle
sticks and worried about slivers of wood contaminating the PS. Bob Skinner
BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: Stupid Metal Man Tricks |
>The most common problem is "figure-eighting" the rivet hole when
>drilling out a bad rivet: Other than a supply of the famous
>"Figure-Eight" rivets, usually a larger size rivet has to be used, but
>"Some People" have been known to put a dab of Bondo in the screwed up
>hole
JB Weld works better :-)
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
finishing kit on order
fuselage out of the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Planner Software |
Bob:
>How much did this program cost you?
$65, I think.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
finishing kit on order
fuselage out of the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ccarpent(at)pressenter.com (Cliff Carpenter) |
Fred, do anything but go to full rich mixture at Leadville!! I arrived
there after a beautiful flight from Y12(Lakeville,MN.2-stops) and somewhere
on downwind placed the mixture full rich like all flatlanders are suppose
to do. Just about touchdown as I'm fighting a pretty stiff cross-wind she
decides to quit! Now of course like all RV'rs I put her down right on the
numbers and she stops a few hundred feet past that. After a couple
attempts, not wanting to run the battery down, I'm now standing beside my
beauty,in the middle of this beautiful runway,about one mile to the FBO,up
hill at 9920 ft. The thought crossed my mind to push-it but since I'm one
of those bubbas that Van keeps referring to, the thought was quickly
dispelled. Finally one of the two FBO ladies came out with the jeep for a
tow to the ramp. After a stern lecture on leaning techniques at high
altitude airports they let me depart the next morning!!!!! Stay leaned-out
at Leadville!!!!!
Cliff Carpenter,N141CC,RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Location |
>e
Scott,
I know of many RV6 builders that mount the cooler behind the #4 and get
good cooling why I did not is unknown eather spot is good . You have to beef
up the location know mater whitch spot you put if in . Let me know what you
deside and can tell you where you need to reenforce....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: -6 sliding canopy call for help |
>5
Gary please call and maybe I can help, day time 817-439-3280.....George
Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: -6 sliding canopy call for help |
My canopy was a piece of cake to fit. It was so simple and easy I couldn't
believe it. I did not follow the plans but used several tips and suggestions
that I have been collecting for the last two and a half years of dreading the
job. I also had some ideas of my own that worked out well and saved a lot of
hassle. I did the entire job by myself without help, although I did have the
love of my life help me set the rough canopy in place when I started. I have
been taking pictures and keeping good notes of the process. I plan to have a
major article about how I did it in the October issue of my newsletter. If
you want a copy of this issue, send $5.00 for a 1996 subscription and you
will also get all the back issues for the year. I also am in the 4th
printing of the 1995 issues which are still available for $5.00. I am off to
Oshkosh Tuesday AM. I'll be at the dinner and plan to join the RV-List
table. See you there.
Jim Cone, Editor Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing Newsletter
422 Savannah Ridge Drive
St. Charles, MO 63303
(314) 928-8703 FAX (314) 447-8803
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
<< I'm taking a week off work starting Aug 17 and plan on traveling West, a
part of the country I've not seen from low altitudes. No specific plans, but
>>
Fred, if you're interested in Boise, I'd be more than happy to have you stop
by. I live about 15 miles NW of Boise, and I hangar at Caldwell Industrial
(about 20mi E of Boise).
We have an extra room if you'd like to stay here, and I can most likely get
you a hangar for the night if you need one.
My 6A is about 2 months away from it's first flight, but I would be happy to
trade you a flight in my ultralight for one in your RV.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
| Subject: | Re: Stupid Metal Man Tricks |
>>>The most common problem is "figure-eighting" the rivet hole when
>>>drilling out a bad rivet: Other than a supply of the famous
>>>"Figure-Eight" rivets, usually a larger size rivet has to be used, but
>>>"Some People" have been known to put a dab of Bondo in the screwed up
>>>hole
>>
>>JB Weld works better :-)
>>
>>Best Regards,
>>
>>Dave Barnhart
>>barnhart(at)a.crl.com
>>rv-6 sn 23744
>>finishing kit on order
>>fuselage out of the jig
>>
>>
>>
Costs more, too! Heh, Heh!
bill
AIRCRAFT REMANUFACTURING
1291 E. VISTA WAY, #150
VISTA, CA. 92084 (619) 749 0239 FAX: 749 6384
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fixing elongated rivet holes? |
If you have a pneumatic squeezer, you can make your own "cheater" rivet. (It
may also work with a hand squeezer, but I haven't tried it.)
This is a "secret" use of the squeezer. The pneumatic squeezer will squeeze
a rivet without the rivet being inserted into anything. By carefully
centering the rivet, you can squeeze the rivet to a shorter length. This
creates a larger diameter for the body of the rivet.
By starting with a slightly longer rivet than you want to use, and squeezing
it to the length that you need, you can creat a larger diameter rivet to fill
an oversize hole.
Of course, I never had to do this on my RV-3. :-) Or, at least from the
outside, you can't tell the difference.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Easy way to measure/mix proseal? |
By weight,
get some little disposable aluminum foil pots (gallipots in hospital talk).
Get a second hand balance that will weight in grams (letter scale or sim).
Tare for the pot, add a glop of proseal and then add activator to make up
the 10%. Use popsicle sticks to mix. Throw the whole lot out when you're
finished. (not the scale)
LD
>Does anyone have recommendations on an easy, quick, and/or simple, way to
>accurately measure and mix proseal?
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Torquing bolts |
The proper torque for aircraft bolts always seems not enough. Remember to
add the torque it takes to move the nut against the nylon if they are nylocks.
LD
Making seats for a 6A
>Hey, all you master mechanics out there--
>
>Just want to verify that I'm reading the table correctly. When attaching
>the HS411PP assembly to the HS rear spar with (4) AN3-5A bolts and
>AN365-1032 nuts/washers, the table says to tighten to 20-25 inch-pounds.
>I did, but that doesn't seem very tight. Any thoughts?
>
>Thanks.
>
>--Don McNamara
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Location |
Scott:
I mounted mine on the engine mount (using odel clamps and 3/4 x 3/4 x 1/8
alum angle) behind #3 cylinder. I made a plentum from fiberglass (foam core
glassed over, then removed foam. Used a spray can top as the hose form.) and
coupled it to the engin baffle with a 3" hose. Works great with on of those
big Cessna oil coolers! Also easy to winterize......
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
<< Listers,
I'm starting on the installation of my engine baffles on an RV-6A and was
wondering what experience others have has by mounting the oil cooler on the
baffle behind the #4 cylinder. I'm installing an O-320 D1A (new) with a new
oil cooler from Van's. The RV-4's that are flying in my local EAA chapter
have it mounted here, but the -4's typically run cooler than the -6's.
On the Orndorff's video, they mounted the cooler behind the #4 cyl. and had
to move it to the front of the engine due to excessive oil temp. Van's
recommends mounting it behind the #4 cyl to keep the oil lines short and to
keep the weight back. I'm confused by all of this conflicting info.
I'd appreciate hearing of any experiences related to this (good or bad). On
thing I did notice was that the Orndorff's used 3/8" oil lines. Would 1/2"
lines reduce oil temp if the engine were to run too hot with the cooler
behind the #4?
Thanks in advance.
-Scott N506RV
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Richardson <Mark.Richardson(at)sofkin.ca> |
> >Subject:How about some more responses to that visibility question?
> >
> >
> >
> >I intend to take a few demo rides before I order the fuselage kit, so
> >I can decide between the 6 and the 6A. But, just out of curiousity,
> >IS there a visibility "problem" (boy, I sure hesitate to use that word)
> >with the RV's?
> >
> >Sounds like the tip-up might be better off than the slider? And, on
> >the ground, I'm assuming the 6A is better off than the 6?
> >
> >I'm guessing that any visibility problem while in flight is strictly
> >related to shielding of the ground by the wings? And so, is not a
> >"problem" with the RV's, but is rather a "characteristic" of all
> >low-wing aircraft? I assume I'll get used to this, just as I'm used
> >to not being able to see what's going on above me in a Cessna?
> >
> >C'mon... all you builders that are now flyers... let's hear it!
> >
> >Thanks! :)
> >
> >Stephen Heinlein
> >6/6A riveting second main wing spar
> >(applying the elbow grease with a C-Frame, 3 lb. hammer & 5 blows per rivet!)
> >sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com
> >
>
I'm 6'4" with a 30" inseam. As you can imagine, I have
a rather long torso. In addition, my shoulders are
26" across and I weigh (oh well, might as well tell the
truth) around 300 lbs. I flew in the -6A prototype
with Mike Seager (can YOU say gross weight?) and found
the visibility great and the airplane very comfortable.
Of course, if you fly spam cans with high wings (like me)
it is unusual to have something between you and the
scenery down below. I expect I will get over it ;-)
Mark
************************************************************************
* Mark Richardson Software Kinetics Ltd *
* Project Manager 65 Iber Rd. *
* Defence Systems Stittsville, Ont *
* VOX 613-831-0888 K2S 1E7 *
* FAX 613-831-1836 richards(at)sofkin.ca *
************************************************************************
* RV-6 20819 '85 Virago 750 *
* EAA# - 367635 DoD# - 1506 *
************************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Speaking of flaps |
Bob:
I've done your short field takeoff technique and agree with the
sensitivity problems you've seen. But with the electric flaps, it's much
easier to maintian a stable attitude.
Interesting observation about the flap usage at higher density altitudes.
I would have thought that one notch would result in more lift than drag. If
time to rotation (due to a short runway) is a problem, then putting in the
notch at rotation should still help the climb rate (or at least it does at
low density altitudes).
I always use full flaps for landings. Approach is at 80 MPH, slowed to 70
MPH over the fence. Approaches need to be steep at there are trees at both
ends (about a 15 degree glide slope) and the runway is only 2600' long. I
don't like using the brakes hard as that wears out tires faster.
I've used over the fence speeds as low as 65 MPH (for real short field
landings), but find that the angle of attack is so high that hitting the tail
tie down ring is a real concern. I've purposely bent an belly mounted
anttenna down such that it hits the runway prior to the tail tie down ring.
Call it a "Runway Finder" (instead of a curb finder), but it
works............
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
<< Speaking of flaps. I tried something the other day on my six that I
used
to do on my 235 hp Maule. To make really short take offs, Maule pilots
would stand on the brakes, feed in full power, start the roll with no flaps
on and once the tail was up and the appropriate speed reached, pulled the
flaps on. The Maule would leap off of the ground. I used a similar
procedure but didn't stand on the brakes and feed in full power. To hard on
the airplane, I felt. I tried this with my 150 hp RV-6. Couldn't really
tell much of a difference. One problem--with my left hand on the stick and
the right hand pulling flaps, I found that I had trouble holding the stick
steady. The controls on the Maule are not sensitive, the RV's are. Anyway,
not the most gracefull take-offs.
I would be interested in comments concerning flaps for take off and
landing. How do others' use flaps. I tell you what I've been doing and I'd
appreciate comments or suggestions. I've not done any scientific study on
this subject so most of my opinions are just gut feel.
For a short or soft field take off, I use one notch of flaps and I don't
use this procedure often as I spend most of my time on hard surface, long
runways. In strong cross winds, I use no flaps as I feel that extending
flaps might contribute to weather vaning.
At high density altitudes, it seemed that a no flaps take off resulted in
greater acceleration and a better rate of climb. For landings, I generally
use one notch of flaps and use full flaps if I'm a little high. It seems
that full flaps is 100% drag with no additional lift.
Here's another problem I run into, occasionally. After the tail is up and
I have enough airspeed to rotate, when I do rotate, the tail wheel will
sometimes contact the ground and it seems like the airplane just doesn't
want to come unstuck. this would be in a no flaps situation. Anyone else
had this problem? BTW, I'm using the Aviation Products tail wheel and I
wonder if this is part of the problem. I made a comparrison between this
tailwheel and the standard one and the A.P. tail wheel sets the tail up 1
1/2 inches when measured at the end of the tail wheel weldment.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Easy way to measure/mix proseal? |
>>> Does anyone have recommendations on an easy, quick, and/or simple, way to
>>> accurately measure and mix proseal?
>>>
I used calibrated cups for the white stuff and calibrated syringes for the
black stuff. Both were initially designed for measuring Flex-Coat in small
quantities. The syringes have a large enough opening to "suck" the black
stuff up into it. Flex-Coat goes over the windings of custom (homebuilt)
fishing rods and is available at any store that sells rod making equipment.
This only helps if you are located on the coast. I don't know if it is used
on fresh water rods. I purchased the syringes by the bag as they are only
good for one session. The store clerk thought that I was a drug dealer or
something :)
-Scott N506RV (installing exhaust)
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Shortening the Flap Handle |
<< Gee Gary this sounds like a challenge:-) come on up to Hillsboro, OR
and we will have a flap handle versus electric flap short field
landing contest. :-) >>
You're on. One of these days I'll make it to the Home-comming.
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)Op.Net> |
| Subject: | Sender: owner-rv-list |
Dear RVBuilders,
I will soon be purchasing a -4 . The particular aircraft I have selected is
the best candidate of the many I have looked at. My selection was based on
the information I gleaned from reading the list and using your common sense
replies
to my and other's questions. I feel a bit like an outsider among you since
most of you are builders. However, I hope to meet some of you at OSH this
weekend. Is there going to be a posting of RV-listers at Van's tent? Is
there away I can attend the Banquet you are holding? I realize its a little
late to ask, but I feel in awe of you guys who have made it into the air
with your own hands.
-- Louis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
| Subject: | Fuel gauges, etc. |
I just got my fuel senders and had a few questions... What fuel gauges,
manufacturer, price range are you folks putting in your RV's and how are
you keeping the panel loking nice and not a blend of multiple types and
sizes of instruments. I know it sounds strange but I do want the final
panel to look like I planned it and not a rummage sale.
Thanks all
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RPM rises with boost pump on |
It sounds like you have a lean idle mixture, and maybe some other
problem. Maybe a bad fuel pump. I assume you have an injected engine,
since you said "boost pump". I don't know very much about the injection
systems since all of my real experience is with carbs, but you almost for
sure have a lean idle mixture.
Chris
>
> I have a strange phenomenon on my (just flown) 6a. It is equipped with
> Bendix fuel injection and a high pressure boost pump plumbed in
> parallel with the mechanical pump. What happens is that at idle around
> 800 rpm for now...still tweaking...if I put onthe pump, the rpm goes up
> by about 200. I noticed it first on final approach when I just
> couldn't get the revs down then confirmed it on the ground.
>
> This of course SHOULDN'T happen!
>
> Anyone got any ideas.
>
> Ken
>
> 6A with about 3 hours on it!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd <tmrv6(at)pop.erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Speaking of flaps |
> Here's another problem I run into, occasionally. After the tail is up and
>I have enough airspeed to rotate, when I do rotate, the tail wheel will
>sometimes contact the ground and it seems like the airplane just doesn't
>want to come unstuck. this would be in a no flaps situation. Anyone else
>had this problem? BTW, I'm using the Aviation Products tail wheel and I
>wonder if this is part of the problem. I made a comparrison between this
>tailwheel and the standard one and the A.P. tail wheel sets the tail up 1
>1/2 inches when measured at the end of the tail wheel weldment.
> Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>
>
>
Bob,
I seem to have the same problem, especially with 2 people on board. Originally
I
found that I was standing on the brakes on takeoff, and thought that was the
problem.
After I corrected that habit, it helped a little, but, the problem is still
there from time to time, exactly as you described. I have the A.P. tailwheel
also....Hmmmmm.
Maybe we haven't solved the problem but at least I know somebody else is
having the same one.
Todd N92TM First flight Mar 10, 1996 (Just dropped it off at the paint
shop for a new (first) set of clothes).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 Visibility |
The view over the nose of an RV-6 is not as good as most factory aircraft. My
-6 doesn't have the greatest visibility while taxiing so I tend to look to
the side. With the canopy (slider) open I can see better. This is not a
problem while flying/take-off/landing because the tail is high. I would
therefore assume that the -6A has better visibility while taxiing.
Build your seats to allow for the maximum visibility.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Speaking of flaps |
<< I would be interested in comments concerning flaps for take off and
landing. How do others' use flaps. I tell you what I've been doing and I'd
appreciate comments or suggestions. I've not done any scientific study on
this subject so most of my opinions are just gut feel.
For a short or soft field take off, I use one notch of flaps and I don't
use this procedure often as I spend most of my time on hard surface, long
runways. In strong cross winds, I use no flaps as I feel that extending
flaps might contribute to weather vaning.
At high density altitudes, it seemed that a no flaps take off resulted in
greater acceleration and a better rate of climb. For landings, I generally
use one notch of flaps and use full flaps if I'm a little high. It seems
that full flaps is 100% drag with no additional lift. >>
I would agree with Jerry on the above.
>>Here's another problem I run into, occasionally. After the tail is up and
I have enough airspeed to rotate, when I do rotate, the tail wheel will
sometimes contact the ground and it seems like the airplane just doesn't
want to come unstuck. this would be in a no flaps situation. Anyone else
had this problem?
Jerry, it seems that you might be trimming for too high of an airspeed for
your take-off roll. In the two RV's I have flown (mine and Don Rigg's RV-4)
I have found that the RV's tend to take-off much smoother if they are trimed
for about 60-65 mph for the take-off roll. Of course, this would require
nose-down trim as soon as you establish a climb. I find that when I am
trimmed for this speed range (BTW this is where the green light comes on for
my electric trim) it only takes a gentle nudge on the stick to start a climb.
When I'm trimmed for too high of an airspeed the aircraft is a real bear on
take-off. It always surprises me how sensitive the RV's are to trim.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: Torquing bolts |
For all the new RV-listers, this is a re-post of bolt torque specs.
for RVs.
Check the RV-list archives!!
.... it should answer most of the bolt torque questions ...
... Gil Alexander
RV6A, #20701 ... finishing the canopy
>The proper torque for aircraft bolts always seems not enough. Remember to
>add the torque it takes to move the nut against the nylon if they are nylocks.
LD,
According to AC43.13A, this step is optional ... see item #2 in the
re-post below:
>
>LD
>Making seats for a 6A
>
>>Just want to verify that I'm reading the table correctly. When attaching
>>the HS411PP assembly to the HS rear spar with (4) AN3-5A bolts and
>>AN365-1032 nuts/washers, the table says to tighten to 20-25 inch-pounds.
>>I did, but that doesn't seem very tight. Any thoughts?
>>--Don McNamara
>>
>>
*** REPOST OF 9-13-94 & 11-8-95 POSTING ***
Doug, and all other RV builders
... here it is!! ... straight from the FAA mechanics bible
.... AC43.13-1A "Acceptable Methods, Techniques and Practices - Aircraft
Inspection, Repair and Alteration"
Notes --
1. Torque for clean, dry threads - no lubrication.
2. You can use the manufacture's recommendations (if you can find them!),
measure the prevailing torque from the fibre locking ring, and add this
torque to the recommended torque... OR ... you can use the figures from
the table (quoted below) and just use them as a final torque.
3. Apply a smooth, even pull, if any jerking motion occurs, back off and
re-torque.
4. Fibre lock nuts can be re-used any number of times, as long as the nut
cannot be turned by finger pressure.
5. Do not use fibre locking nuts on bolts with a drilled cotter pin holes
in sizes less than 5/16. At 5/16 and above, make sure no burrs exist
around the drilled hole.
NOTE --
6. Self-locking nut/bolt combinations with NO cotter pin ARE OK for control
systems as long as they clamp on an inner race of a bearing, and the bolt
itself is not used as a pivot. This is the general RV control system
arrangement, but there are exceptions.
SELECTED TORQUE VALUES from AC43.13-1A -- chapter 5
AN bolt, AN365 nut (the usual RV combination)
#10 (AN3) 20-25 in.-lbs.
1/4 (AN4) 50-70 in.-lbs.
AN bolt, AN364 thin locknut
#10 (AN3) 12-15 in.-lbs.
1/4 (AN4) 30-40 in.-lbs.
If you use a high strength bolt (such as NAS1300 series)
with AN365 locknut
#10 (AN3) 25-30 in.-lbs.
1/4 (AN4) 80-100 in.-lbs.
The all metal locknuts are usually rated the same as the AN365 fibre locknut.
OK .. for all of you who are not convinced by the FAA recommendations,
Aircraft Spruce offers a "Belt and Braces" approach. They sell MS17825
self-locking castle nuts. This gives the best of both worlds, fibre
locking AND a cotter pin, but at about a $1.00 each.
Hope this helps .. Gil Alexander RV6A #20701
PS. Get a copy of AC43.13, or borrow one from your friendly FAA Mechanic,
it's well worth reading.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel gauges, etc. |
>I just got my fuel senders and had a few questions... What fuel gauges,
>manufacturer, price range are you folks putting in your RV's and how are
>you keeping the panel loking nice and not a blend of multiple types and
>sizes of instruments. I know it sounds strange but I do want the final
>panel to look like I planned it and not a rummage sale.
>Rick
Rick, I spent a lot of time at S&F and OSH looking and taking pictures of
panels and noting what gauges were used. I used Rochester oil temp, oil
pressure and fuel pressure electric gauges. I used Mitchell fuel gauges.
These matched pretty well. Mitchell now makes small, modular, electric
gauges that can be removed from the front. There are several configurations
available. They look similar to Piper or Cessna strips or clusters. I did
use the E.I volt/amp gauge because I liked the functionality. I located
this gauge apart from the other cluster of gauges.
A suggestion: If someone wanted to do a good deed for their fellow
Rver's, they could take pictures of all of the instrument panels on the
RV's, get comment on likes and dis-likes and make this info available to
those on the list for a nominal charge to cover photos, mailing, etc. It's
easy to get the pictures, less easy to catch pilots at their airplanes.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Speaking of flaps |
>Bob,
>I seem to have the same problem, especially with 2 people on board.
Originally I
>found that I was standing on the brakes on takeoff, and thought that was the
>problem.
>After I corrected that habit, it helped a little, but, the problem is still
>there from time to time, exactly as you described. I have the A.P. tailwheel
>also....Hmmmmm.
>Maybe we haven't solved the problem but at least I know somebody else is
>having the same one.
>
>Todd N92TM First flight Mar 10, 1996 (Just dropped it off at the paint
Todd, Now that you mention it, I does generally happen when at gross weight.
I understand that Van's new swivel tailwheel sets the tail a little lower
than the Aviation Products tailwheel. Might be a good reason to use his.
I've often felt that longer gear legs on the six would make 3 point, full
stall landings a little easier and allow a little greater angle of attack on
take off. I had the same problem, getting on the brakes, with the floor
mounted rudders. Drilled new brake cylinder mounting holes on the rudder
pedals to allow the rudder pedals to tip forward, out of the way of my big
feet. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Torquing bolts |
<< The proper torque for aircraft bolts always seems not enough. Remember to
add the torque it takes to move the nut against the nylon if they are
nylocks.
>>
I normally read this list without comment... But, this is exactly why I
_insist_ on clicker style torque wrenches for assembly... the crew is taught
to follow the bolt sequence exactly, set the wrench to the number specified
for each bolt, and just do it! ... no allowing for this or that .... no,
"just a little extra for insurance"...
PhD materials engineers, spend their working life in the labs doing load
testing on fasteners, fatigue cycling, thermal cycling, creep under load,
Xraying for internal cracking, vibration testing to failure, etc... huge
amounts of money are spent on developing the torque requirements for each
size of fastener and each type of material... especially for
aircraft/aerospace.... and then Joe Mechanic eyeballs the bolt, spits on his
hands and pulls on the wrench until the threads squeal, and then gives it
"just a little extra for insurance"...
Denny k8do(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino) |
| Subject: | Fixing elongated Holes |
I bought a repair kit from Avery when I fist started. It uses the same
size head as the original rivit but has a thicker shank. The kit was about
29.00 and has differt size rivets in it. I have not had to use it yet.
Knock on wood!
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn-80039
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Easy way to measure/mix proseal? |
> I used calibrated cups for the white stuff and calibrated syringes for
> the black stuff. Both were initially designed for measuring Flex-Coat
> in small quantities. The syringes have a large enough opening to
> "suck" the black stuff up into it. Flex-Coat goes over the windings
> of custom (homebuilt) fishing rods and is available at any store
> that sells rod making equipment.
> This only helps if you are located on the coast. I don't know if it
> is used on fresh water rods. I purchased the syringes by the bag as
> they are only good for one session. The store clerk thought that I was
> a drug dealer or something :)
In some states anyone can buy syringes, and you can also get them in Feed &
Veternary supply stores. By the way, have you given any thought to using the
syringes to apply the mixed Pro-seal to the rivet holes?
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Speaking of flaps |
>Jerry, it seems that you might be trimming for too high of an airspeed for
>your take-off roll. In the two RV's I have flown (mine and Don Rigg's RV-4)
>I have found that the RV's tend to take-off much smoother if they are trimed
>for about 60-65 mph for the take-off roll. Of course, this would require
>nose-down trim as soon as you establish a climb. I find that when I am
>trimmed for this speed range (BTW this is where the green light comes on for
>my electric trim) it only takes a gentle nudge on the stick to start a climb.
> When I'm trimmed for too high of an airspeed the aircraft is a real bear on
>take-off. It always surprises me how sensitive the RV's are to trim.
>
>Gary Corde
>RV-6 N211GC
Gary, Hey, my name's still Bob. Jerry is the other good-looking RV-6
pilot:) My procedure, in the past, has been to adjust the trim tab to
stream-line with the elevator so I could duplicate trim tab position
consistantly. I have manual trim which is not as easy as your electric trim
is to return to the same position. I'll try a little nose up trim and see
if that helps. Thanks, Bob Skinner BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elon_Ormsby <e671275(at)popsicle.llnl.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: RPM rises with boost pump on |
(snip) I don't know very much about the injection systems since all of my
real experience is with carbs, but you almost for sure have a lean idle mixture.
Chris
----------------------------------------
(more snips)...Bendix fuel injection and a high pressure boost pump plumbed
in parallel with the mechanical pump. What happens is that at idle around
800 rpm for now...if I put on the pump, the rpm goes up by about 200.
Ken
----------------------------------------
Hi Ken:
I didn't want to say anything because I'm not familiar with the Bendix
set-up. However, I agree with Chris.
A little background first. All FI systems depend on two things. (1)CONSTANT
fuel pressure and(2) a TIMED pulse. It makes no difference if it is
electronic or mechanical FI. The FI must deliver a VARIABLE quantity of fuel
proportionate to the engines needs. It does this by holding the pressure
ALWAYS CONSTANT and modulating the other variable (the pulse width or length
of time of the fuel squirt). The electronic-rs call this
"pulse-width-modulation", I don't know what the mechanical folks call it
unless it is "variable(or timed) flow". Think of it this way - if you have a
constant 35psi pressure for 1 second you have one quantity of fuel, if you
have the same 35psi pressure at 2 seconds you have 2x the quantity. If you
vary the PRESSURE you screw everything up!
Now why will an engine's RPM increase? If you have a "perfect" mixture and
increases or decrease the mix - RPM will go down. If you are lean and
increase mix the RPM will go up because the mix is becoming stoichiometricly
better. If you are already rich (or perfect) and richen further the RPM
will drop. So your condition is a lean mixture that is becoming richer.
Your Bendix is a mechanical system so it modulates the fuel squirt by
varying the TIMING of the flow - maybe that is out of calibration.
However,look at your FUEL PRESSURE first. Somehow it is increasing. You do
have a precision pressure REGULATOR on it don't you? The condition only
happens when you add the boost pump - I suspect your pressure is no longer
constant and no FI system can tolerate that. The delta P tolerance is
extremely small on all FI systems.
Of course, this is only my opinion and meant as a educational primer(no pun
intended) because I am unfamiliar with the details of Bendix constant flow
system.
Elon
ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rod End Bearings |
Installing my first set of rod end bearings in a -6 rudder. Three questions
1) What's the best way to turn them and protect them? Any special tools or
jigs to make?
2) two of the three bearings screw in hand tight about four turns. A third
is tough to turn from the first. I'm afraid of galling the bearing. What is
the normal "feel" of installation? How have others prevented galling the
threads?
3) Plans are unclear to me--it looks like a jamnut goes on the bearing first.
How tight should the jamnut be when I finally torque it down?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elon_Ormsby <e671275(at)popsicle.llnl.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Torquing bolts |
(snip)I normally read this list without comment... But, this is exactly why I
>_insist_ on clicker style torque wrenches for assembly.
>
>Denny
--------------------
Denny, I know you didn't mean it but your comment might be misinterpreted
that a "clicker" is a "fool proof" way of torquing. Far from it. They are
very good (and expensive) wrenches but I have seen them used in an off-axis
manner that FAILED TO CLICK at the correct preset. They will snap bolts
like anything else. The moral is KNOW YOUR TOOL AND HOW TO USE IT. A beam
(or indicating)style wrench is just as useful in the hands of a skilled
craftsman.
-Elon
ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Arter <arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Torquing bolts |
Elon,
My torque wrench is a Craftsman. Is that close enough?
Phil
>A beam (or indicating)style wrench is just as useful in the hands of a skilled
>craftsman.
>-Elon
>ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Speaking of flaps |
aol.com!RV6junkie(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
> << I would be interested in comments concerning flaps for take off and
> landing. How do others' use flaps. I tell you what I've been doing and I'd
> appreciate comments or suggestions. I've not done any scientific study on
> this subject so most of my opinions are just gut feel.
> For a short or soft field take off, I use one notch of flaps and I don't
> use this procedure often as I spend most of my time on hard surface, long
> runways. In strong cross winds, I use no flaps as I feel that extending
> flaps might contribute to weather vaning.
> At high density altitudes, it seemed that a no flaps take off resulted in
> greater acceleration and a better rate of climb. For landings, I generally
> use one notch of flaps and use full flaps if I'm a little high. It seems
> that full flaps is 100% drag with no additional lift. >>
>
> I would agree with Jerry on the above.
>
> >>Here's another problem I run into, occasionally. After the tail is up and
> I have enough airspeed to rotate, when I do rotate, the tail wheel will
> sometimes contact the ground and it seems like the airplane just doesn't
> want to come unstuck. this would be in a no flaps situation. Anyone else
> had this problem?
>
> Jerry, it seems that you might be trimming for too high of an airspeed for
> your take-off roll. In the two RV's I have flown (mine and Don Rigg's RV-4)
> I have found that the RV's tend to take-off much smoother if they are trimed
> for about 60-65 mph for the take-off roll. Of course, this would require
> nose-down trim as soon as you establish a climb. I find that when I am
> trimmed for this speed range (BTW this is where the green light comes on for
> my electric trim) it only takes a gentle nudge on the stick to start a climb.
> When I'm trimmed for too high of an airspeed the aircraft is a real bear on
> take-off. It always surprises me how sensitive the RV's are to trim.
>
> Gary Corde
> RV-6 N211GC
Gary
I agree with what you say but I cannot take credit for the comments
I think they were made by Bob Skinner.
Jerry
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) (Hillsboro, OR)
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rod End Bearings |
Boelube. Put it on the #8 screws in your tanks as well.
Chris
>
> 2) two of the three bearings screw in hand tight about four turns. A third
> is tough to turn from the first. I'm afraid of galling the bearing. What is
> the normal "feel" of installation? How have others prevented galling the
> threads?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | electronic fuel injection & ignition |
The other day I saw a post (sorry I can't give credit to the poster as I
deleated the e-mail) regarding a cool web site. I checked it out and was so
excited that I called the company and spoke with the engineer (who happens to
be a pilot and is familiar with aircraft engines). The URL is
http://www.sdsefi.com/
The company, RaceTech Engineering (Simple Ditigal Systems), manufacturers an
electronic fuel injection system (EM-1F) with an intergrated distributorless
(Hall effect) ignition system. The EM-1F features a crank triggered, fully
programmable ignition system with knock control. The ED-1F is used to upgrade
carburetted engines to port type fuel injection. You would retain your carb
to be used as a throttle body, just disconnect the fuel supply.
EM-1 uses a speed/density system to calculate engine airflow rates. It uses
a MAP sensor as opposed to a mass airflow type system. Fuel enrichment during
start and warm-up is controled by the computer (that gets its reading from a
CHT). The ECU monitors throttle position for acceleration enrichment. A
mixture knob allows for manual mixture control +/- 50% of the programed
values.
The system comes with a plug-in main wiring harness and a custom injector
harness. The system uses Bosch 2.2 Ohm injectors (330 or 490 cc).
A complete system sells for about $1050 to $1800 depending on options. They
currently have 150 units operating with good results.
Now I don't know a lot about this type of stuff but to me this system seems
like it could easily be adapted to work on a Lycomming engine. In fact,
there is a system flying on a EZ. What do you motor heads out there think?
Is this something that we could be use on our RV's. BTW, the failure mode
on the FI system is full rich (with mixture control) and you would retain one
mag.
Sounds too good to be true and we all know the old saying about that. Educate
me.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pilla(at)emmanuel.espinc.com (Michael Pilla) |
| Subject: | Re: Rod End Bearings |
> Installing my first set of rod end bearings in a -6 rudder. Three questions
>
> 1) What's the best way to turn them and protect them? Any special tools or
> jigs to make?
I took a cheap 5/8" socket and cut a slot with a cutoff wheel, smoothed
the edges and was able to turn them in.
> 2) two of the three bearings screw in hand tight about four turns. A third
> is tough to turn from the first. I'm afraid of galling the bearing. What is
> the normal "feel" of installation? How have others prevented galling the
> threads
Didn't have this problem.
>
> 3) Plans are unclear to me--it looks like a jamnut goes on the bearing first.
> How tight should the jamnut be when I finally torque it down?
I don't tighten it very much since the rod end bearing is "captured" from
rotating by the hinge.
Mike Pilla
pilla(at)espinc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KennyCobb(at)aol.com |
A friend of mine that does not have a computer asked me to
post this for him.
FOR SALE
RV-4, IO-360AIB, 650 SMOH, 1050 TTAF, CS Prop,
KX-155, KT-79 11-Morrow 604 Loran, Argus 3000
Moving Map, Stero Tape Deck, Bose Headsets,
Vision Microsystems with auto alert, AP
Electric Flaps, Electric Trims, Dual Controls,
Leather Interior, Plus lots of extras !
All this for $ 70,000.
Phone # 805-833-8809 Gary Banducci ( Bakersfield, CA )
Please call Gary direct if you have any questions, I can
say that this is one of the best looking -4s I've seen.
Ken Crabtree
Bakersfield, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rod End Bearings |
More rod end questions: Do threads need to show BEYOND the nutplate or just
have minimum turns including the nutplate? One of my bearings (can't see
inside the rudder to verify) has about 5 whole turns, which won't push it out
the other side.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: RPM rises with boost pump on |
(snip) I don't know very much about the injection systems since all of
my
real experience is with carbs, but you almost for sure have a lean idle
mixture.
Chris
----------------------------------------
(more snips)...Bendix fuel injection and a high pressure boost pump
plumbed
in parallel with the mechanical pump. What happens is that at idle
around
800 rpm for now...if I put on the pump, the rpm goes up by about 200.
Ken
----------------------------------------
(even more snips..)A little background first. All FI systems depend on
two things. (1)CONSTANT
fuel pressure and(2) a TIMED pulse. It makes no difference if it is
electronic or mechanical FI.
Elon, both yours and Chris's response make perfect sense apart from one
thing that neither of you are aware of...The fact is that my engine is
actually running too RICH at idle. I discovered this when checking my
idle cut off. The rpm should rise by about 50 rpm when moving from full
rich to ICO. In fact, mine increases by 150 to 200 when I do this. I've
just found out how to adjust it and will do so this w/e (no Oshkosh for
me). That really makes the rpm increase with the boost pump REALLY
confusing. Maybe it will be differnt when I sort out the idle mixture.
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com> |
aol.com!Rvbildr(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> I'm having a devil of a time getting the longerons to match the shape of the
> fuselage. The curvature of that cut out from p.22 doesn't even come close to
> matching up. Is it necessary to trim the tops of F-605 where the longeron
> passes? I've got the twists in the longerons ok, but the curvature is way off
> in the vicinity F-605. On mine it needs to be bent out 1.5" or so in that
> area. Am I the only one to have this problem? What did you do to make it fit?
> Any help would be greatly appreciated. Back to the shop to wrestle with it
> some more! Thanks Mal rvbildr(at)juno.com ( I thought I was a rv builder 'til
> I got to this point!)
Yes you do have to notch F-605 so that the outside of the longeron is flush with
the outside of the bulkhead. I used a cardboard template of the curve to match
up
to the longeron and marked the fuselage jib where it should lie. When these both
matched up it all went together pretty good with only a little tweeking here and
there. If you need any further info on this call me at 317-538-3166.
Frank Smidler
Starting on instrument panel, RV-6
smidler(at)dcwi.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel gauges, etc. |
> A suggestion: If someone wanted to do a good deed for their fellow
> Rver's, they could take pictures of all of the instrument panels on the
> RV's, get comment on likes and dis-likes and make this info available to
> those on the list for a nominal charge to cover photos, mailing, etc. It's
> easy to get the pictures, less easy to catch pilots at their airplanes.
Bob --
My plan at Oshkosh is to do something quite similar to this. I was going
to photograph all the panels I could, then scan the photos and add them to
my homepage.
If someone else is already doing something like this, perhaps we can
combine efforts.
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Morristec(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RPM rises with boost pump on |
I have some familiarity with the Bendix RSA fuel injection system. While I
usually agree with Elon, he's missing something here. There are three basic
types of fuel injection, Port injection (timed) which is what;s in most cars
these days, Throttle body injection (used to be known as pressure
carbeurators in the old days), and port constant flow. The Bendix system is
port, constant flow. The Bendix injector unit meters flow based on mass
airflow through a venturi in the throttle assembly. It then adjust the
pressure to the nozzles, which are precision orifices. Therefore the flow
rate is directly proportional to the pressure. The same pressure goes to all
nozzles through one outlet line from the injector to the flow dicvider. At
the flow divider (basically a 4 way "T" fitting) the fuel goes to the
nozzels. There is no timing at all. Only the pressure varies. In fact many
certified airplane manuf. use the pressure at the flow divider to provide
fuel flow rates to a cockpit indicator.
Now to the real problem. I think that the RPM rise is due to a lean mixture,
and either a engine driven fuel pump that is below spec. pressure (25psi) or
an electric pump that is over pressure (30 PSI). I think that the outlet
pressure will vary with inlet pressure, but I'm not positive. Good Luck
Dan Morris
Moristec(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | elon ormsby <ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov> |
Thanx Russel for the informative and interesting info on the Continental FI.
I went back and re-read my FI comments and admit it was a pretty confusing
job. I called the mechanical FI "constant-flow"(correctly) but then
indicated it was timed. Instead of "timed" I should have said a "variable"
flow rate. But the point I was trying to get across was that unstable
PRESSURE may be causing Ken's problems. He indiacted that when he turned on
the boost pump the RPM went up. I thought he may be over-boosting the
regulator or distributation system.
As you pointed out fuel pressure goes to the all important regulator that is
sensing throttle,MAP,and mix. Based on these inputs, the regulator controls
the flow being distributed to the cylinders. I am assuming the calibrated
size of the spool valve, orfice,spider(or whatever its called) that feeds
cylinder distribution, is based on an EXPECTED RANGE OF FLOW from the
regulator. Something is causing the regulator to exceed this range - I
thought it may be pressure. Also, on some FI's there is usually a fuel
return line for excess fuel. Passing too much fuel my over-pressurize this
line and cause the system to go rich.
---------------------- you also said---------------------
There's no mechanical apparatus to do timed sequenced delivery at the
injectors.."
The older gasoline Mercedes and all diesel engines do use a timed mechanical
system. But for aircraft I'm sure you are right.
---------------------------------
"They rely on a constant pressure at the metering unit input, but once past
the metering unit the fuel is at variable pressure".
Engines burn pounds(gallons) of fuel per hour. I usually think of it as
variable flow and not pressure.
---------------
These are just some thoughts based on my experience with NON-aircraft FI
systems. As with all free advise you sometimes get what you pay for! I am
quite interested in learning more about the Bendix FI - so Ken or Rusell,
when you solve the problem please let me know the results.
-Elon
ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | elon ormsby <ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: RPM rises with boost pump on |
Dan, thanks for the reply. I am not trying to be critical I just want to
learn more precise info about the Bendix unit.
-------------you said---------------------
"The Bendix system is port, constant flow. The Bendix injector unit meters
flow based on mass airflow through a venturi in the throttle assembly".
True mass airflow units use the HOT WIRE method for precision measurement.
They were so trouble prone that most manufactures gave up and went to the
speed density method (not true mass flow). Is the Bendix a HOT-Wire system?
-------------------------------------
"It then adjust the pressure to the nozzles, which are precision orifices.
Therefore the flow rate is directly proportional to the pressure. The same
pressure goes to all nozzles through one outlet line from the injector to
the flow dicvider. At the flow divider (basically a 4 way "T" fitting) the
fuel goes to the nozzels. There is no timing at all. Only the pressure
varies. In fact many certified airplane manuf. use the pressure at the flow
divider to provide fuel flow rates to a cockpit indicator.
I agree to all of the above. But all FI systems rely on specific DELIVERY
(or supply) PRESSURE to some metering device. This delivery pressure is
usually held to a close tolerance and should not vary. AFTER the metering
device the pressure is variable going to the constant flow injector. What I
am suggesting is that if the delivery pressure is wrong the metering device
is thrown off because it is calibrated for a very specific supply pressure.
---------------------------------------
"Now to the real problem. I think that the RPM rise is due to a lean mixture"
I agree.
---------------nit picking stuff----------------------
"There are three basic types of fuel injection, Port injection (timed) which
is what;s in most cars these days, Throttle body injection (used to be
known as pressure carbeurators in the old days), and port constant flow".
OK, but port injection can be BOTH timed (today's solenoid injectors) OR
constant flow. The Rochester (Corvette FI) was a port, constant-flow,
mechanical. BTW boosted fuel pressure could be as high as 400 psi on the
Rochester Unit! Throttle Body Injection is found on many trucks today. Its
still timed injection (solenoids) it just a TBI mounted where the carb used
to be. Its cheaper.
-Elon
ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Piers Walker <pierso(at)tartarus.uwa.edu.au> |
I'm a mechanical engineering student and also a commercial pilot. So I
decided, along with some friends and finance from the university to
undertake a project to build an RV6A. So far we are up to assembling the
skeleton of the horizontal stabilizer. We are about to mount our work so
far onto the jig. We are hoping to have the entire project completed by
the end of 1998.
Piers Walker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Easy way to measure/mix proseal? |
I bought a small (about 8" total length) stainless steel spatula designed
spreading cake frosting from the grocery store for about $5. It worked
great for mixing and spreading and did not break like popsicle sticks can
do. Only drawback was I had to clean it after each session.
As is as polished stainless, it cleaned rather easily with MEK or lacquer
thinner.
RB
>For mixing, I made a .063 aluminum popsicle stick. Each end had a different
>radius for working Pro seal into corners. I got tired of breaking popsicle
>sticks and worried about slivers of wood contaminating the PS. Bob Skinner
>BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>
>
>
Richard E. Bibb TEL: 301-571-2507
Director ALT: 301-564-4404
Fore Systems Federal, Inc. FAX: 301-564-4408
6905 Rock Spring Drive, #800 email: rbibb(at)fore.com
Bethesda, MD 20817 PAGE: 800-719-1246
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Torquing bolts |
<< The moral is KNOW YOUR TOOL AND HOW TO USE IT. A beam
(or indicating)style wrench is just as useful in the hands of a skilled
craftsman. >>
Hi Elon...
If they WERE skilled craftsmen, they would insist that they use a beam wrench
instead of a clicker... your point that any tool can be misused is well
taken... my experience is the assembly of racing engines... enthusiastic pit
crew ruined more than one set of bearings, stripped head bolts, etc., when I
was looking the other way, until I replaced the torque wrenches with
clickers.... :)
Denny
My point was the tendency among the less experienced to find an excuse to
wrench it down until it squeals....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Speaking of flaps |
<< Gary, Hey, my name's still Bob. >>
Sorry, got confused in all of the excitment of answering a question. Funny,
your typing looks just like Jerry's.
Cary Gorde
VR-6 CG112N
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rod End Bearings |
<< 1) What's the best way to turn them and protect them? Any special tools
or
jigs to make?
I always used my cleco plyers. They work just great.
>>2) two of the three bearings screw in hand tight about four turns. A
third
is tough to turn from the first. I'm afraid of galling the bearing. What
is
the normal "feel" of installation? How have others prevented galling the
threads?
They should be tight after several turns. They get real tight towards the
end.
>>3) Plans are unclear to me--it looks like a jamnut goes on the bearing
first.
How tight should the jamnut be when I finally torque it down?
Tight enough that the bearing can't turn out.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov> |
| Subject: | RPM rises with boost pump on |
After reading a few comments on this subject I wanted to point out a few
things to avoid confusion on the list. The Bendix RSA fuel injection
system is a constant flow injection system. The fuel is always flowing
to the distribution manifold then to the injector regardless of engine
timing. The system is independent of engine timing (very similar to a
carb in this respect). Basic theory of operation-the servo meters fuel
based on air pressure changes in the venturi and throttle position.
Metered fuel pressure is compared to unmetered fuel pressure then piped
to the distribution manifold. The manifold serves as a one way check
valve and a pressure regulator. The system is by design, tolerant of
fluctuation in supply fuel pressure. However, the system is always
compensating for changes and I would not jump to the conclusion of "lean
idle" as causal. It is a result. The servo, if properly set, will
compensate for supply pressure changes within a finite range. This is
also true with a carburetor, the float and valve serve as a regulator,
remember, the bowl is vented. Not the same as a model airplane engine
with a straight venturi and no float.
Ken, you didn't mention fuel pressures. The first thing I would do to
troubleshoot is measure fuel pressure with and without the boost pump on
and check for gross fluctuation. There is a spec. that the regulator
should tolerate but I don't know it. 25-30 psi is typical range. Your
problem is most likely due to the fuel pressure difference with and
without the pump.
I would not fly until you have this resolved. Too much potential for
over lean mixture and engine damage.
Other stuff:
July 21, 1996 - July 30, 1996
RV-Archive.digest.vol-br