RV-Archive.digest.vol-bs

July 30, 1996 - August 12, 1996



      You didn't say if the servo is new or used.  The mixture control section   
      of the servo can be cleaned and checked but it's quite complicated.   
       Lycoming Service instruction 1335 outlines maintenance of the mixture   
      control section.  It's available from Lycoming or Email a fax number off   
      list and I'll fax a copy to you.
      
      The adjustment of the regulator section of the servo should be left to   
      the factory.
      
      Check the strainer in the fuel inlet.  Always unscrew it from the side   
      with the fuel inlet fitting to prevent dumping contaminants into the fuel   
      metering section.
      
      Good Luck
      
      Mitch Robbins
      robbinm(at)chi.ntsb.gov
      
      
       ----------
From: owner-rv-list[SMTP:owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 1996 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: RPM rises with boost pump on
(snip) I don't know very much about the injection systems since all of my real experience is with carbs, but you almost for sure have a lean idle mixture. Chris ---------------------------------------- (more snips)...Bendix fuel injection and a high pressure boost pump plumbed in parallel with the mechanical pump. What happens is that at idle around 800 rpm for now...if I put on the pump, the rpm goes up by about 200. Ken ---------------------------------------- Hi Ken: I didn't want to say anything because I'm not familiar with the Bendix set-up. However, I agree with Chris. A little background first. All FI systems depend on two things. (1)CONSTANT fuel pressure and(2) a TIMED pulse. It makes no difference if it is electronic or mechanical FI. The FI must deliver a VARIABLE quantity of fuel proportionate to the engines needs. It does this by holding the pressure ALWAYS CONSTANT and modulating the other variable (the pulse width or length of time of the fuel squirt). The electronic-rs call this "pulse-width-modulation", I don't know what the mechanical folks call it unless it is "variable(or timed) flow". Think of it this way - if you have a constant 35psi pressure for 1 second you have one quantity of fuel, if you have the same 35psi pressure at 2 seconds you have 2x the quantity. If you vary the PRESSURE you screw everything up! Now why will an engine's RPM increase? If you have a "perfect" mixture and increases or decrease the mix - RPM will go down. If you are lean and increase mix the RPM will go up because the mix is becoming stoichiometricly better. If you are already rich (or perfect) and richen further the RPM will drop. So your condition is a lean mixture that is becoming richer. Your Bendix is a mechanical system so it modulates the fuel squirt by varying the TIMING of the flow - maybe that is out of calibration. However,look at your FUEL PRESSURE first. Somehow it is increasing. You do have a precision pressure REGULATOR on it don't you? The condition only happens when you add the boost pump - I suspect your pressure is no longer constant and no FI system can tolerate that. The delta P tolerance is extremely small on all FI systems. Of course, this is only my opinion and meant as a educational primer(no pun intended) because I am unfamiliar with the details of Bendix constant flow system. Elon ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Marc.Degirolamo@140-15.mx1.fidonet.org (Marc Degirolamo)
Date: Jul 30, 1996
Subject: Pro-seal
I am preparing to seal my fueltanks with proseal. I have a question regarding its application. What have you been using for dispensing of the proseal......popsicle sticks, plastic spreaders,.?.. and how much did you put on the ribs and skin before riveting ? marc.Degirolamo@140-15.mx1.fidonet.org tail done finishing wings fuse in jig ... OFFLINE 1.40 * Rv-ing for FUN -- |Fidonet: Marc Degirolamo 1:140/15 |Internet: Marc.Degirolamo@140-15.mx1.fidonet.org | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his/her own. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 1996
From: Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com>
Subject: Re: RPM rises with boost pump on
I'd start looking for a bad reg. or maybe a sticky/backwards check valve somewhere in the system. Placing a guage at different points in the lines would help to determin the problem as well. It sounds like you have a spooky one there. Good luck. Chris > > Elon, both yours and Chris's response make perfect sense apart from one > thing that neither of you are aware of...The fact is that my engine is > actually running too RICH at idle. I discovered this when checking my > idle cut off. The rpm should rise by about 50 rpm when moving from full > rich to ICO. In fact, mine increases by 150 to 200 when I do this. I've > just found out how to adjust it and will do so this w/e (no Oshkosh for > me). That really makes the rpm increase with the boost pump REALLY > confusing. Maybe it will be differnt when I sort out the idle mixture. > > Ken > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 1996
From: Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com>
Subject: Re: My project
> From owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com Wed Jul 31 03:01:18 1996 > Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 17:08:24 +0800 (WST) > From: Piers Walker <tartarus.uwa.edu.au!pierso(at)matronics.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com The best laid plans of mice and men... Chris > We are hoping to have the entire project completed by > the end of 1998. > > Piers Walker > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 1996
From: gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander)
Subject: Re: Pro-seal
>I am preparing to seal my fueltanks with proseal. I have a question >regarding its application. What have you been using for dispensing of the >proseal......popsicle sticks, plastic spreaders,.?.. and how much did you >put on the ribs and skin before riveting ? >marc.Degirolamo@140-15.mx1.fidonet.org >tail done >finishing wings >fuse in jig > >... OFFLINE 1.40 * Rv-ing for FUN >-- > |Fidonet: Marc Degirolamo 1:140/15 > |Internet: Marc.Degirolamo@140-15.mx1.fidonet.org > | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his/her own. *** sent privately *** Marc, Check Tony Bingelis section in the June 1988 Sport Aviation. It called "Sealing Aluminum Fuel Tanks" and is based on the RV6 tanks he was building at the time. Complete with pictures/sketches showing what the final job should look like. You should have someone in your local EAA chapter with a copy, or the EAA should be able to get you a back issue/reprint. ... hope this helps ... Gil Alexander gil(at)rassp.hac.com RV6A, #20701 Technical Counselor, EAA Chapter 40, Northridge, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 1996
From: "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Speaking of flaps (chatter)
>Cary Gorde >VR-6 CG112N A Volkswagen VR6 powered RV-6 ? Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com) Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Matt993(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 31, 1996
Subject: Re: Fuel gauges, etc.
I can "snappy " images from hi8 onto computers if you need - Im also looking for RV Video footage from Oshkosh can you help? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 31, 1996
Subject: Fuel pump
I have a question regarding the electric pump on a carburated engine. Is it possible for the engine-driven fuel pump to fail catastrophically so that the electric pump cannot pump fuel past it? Just curious... Ed Bundy ebundy2620(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel gauges, etc.
Rick; If I were doing it again, I wouldn't want to mess with the rinky dink fuel gauges that are so grossly inaccurate as to make them virtually decorations on the instrument panel. Get a device such as Matts to start with. The totalizer concept is vastly preferable in my opinion. I've got the standard Vans fuel gauges, and I calibrated them with the a/c in level flight att. Early in the time, I had an occasion to fly it down on fuel over about 3 flights. The left tank was indicating just below 1/2 when I was preparing to land. At fill up, the left tank took 18.5 gals to fill!! The clock is the only way to go with those kind of gauges. If Matts device isn't sat. for FAA reqmts, then put in one gauge with a selector switch for FAA, then have Matts device to use. Just my opinion. I'll bet there are some differing ones out there. John D John Darby RV6 N61764 flying johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re:Visibility 'Problems'
Stephen; every thing is relative. If you are use to flying tri gear, high wing aircraft, then there will be some 'difference' in the visibility both forward and down. I'm 5'9'' and don't have a problem with a 6. But my background is in low wing aircraft (better to check the 5 through 7 o'clock high where the attacks usually come from). After the T-6 and P51, the rv 6 has excellent forward ground visibility, but as I said, it is all relative. It will be as big of a problem as you let it cause you. John D John Darby RV6 N61764 flying johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Rod End Bearings
To who ever; some comments. >1) What's the best way to turn them and protect them? Any special tools or>jigs to make? Vans older newsletter has some ideas that work, cutting out the sides of a cheap socket is one of them. A steel tubes with the cut outs will also work. > >2) two of the three bearings screw in hand tight about four turns. A third>is tough to turn from the first. I'm afraid of galling the bearing. What is>the normal "feel" of installation? How have others prevented galling the>threads? > As Tony Bingelis says, they should all start with out force, if force is required, then something ain't right! I used a quality tap to 'dress' out some of the rough spots on one or two. I know the thing about a/c bolts being 'rolled' etc, but this was just to dress out. With a delft touch, you can actually feel the tap hit a burr or something, and light pressure will dress it out. I was more pleased with this than lube alone. >3) Plans are unclear to me--it looks like a jamnut goes on the bearing first. That's right. Acts like a lock nut. But the bearing is captured in the bracket anyway, so it's rather redundant. But still needed for the inspection. > How tight should the jamnut be when I finally torque it down? About the same as any nut that size. One thing you didn't ask about. Remember that the male bearings should protrude through the holder the same number of threads that any bolt goes through a nut, usually two threads plus showing. Even with this, the jam nut tightens the bearing considerably from a little wobble. John D John Darby RV6 N61764 flying johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Speaking of flaps
Bob; some comments. >To make really short take offs, Maule pilots>would stand on the brakes, feed in full power, start the roll with no flaps>on and once the tail was up and the appropriate speed reached, pulled the>flaps on. The Maule would leap off of the ground. I tried this with my 150 hp RV-6. Couldn't really >tell much of a difference. All of my A F career, we had this argument. Never got it settled. The point was that without the flaps down, the a/c would accelerate quicker (less drag) and then drop the flaps at speed. Supposedly would decrease T O roll. There were advocates of both. Inconclusive data. > Here's another problem I run into, occasionally. After the tail is up and>I have enough airspeed to rotate, when I do rotate, the tail wheel will >sometimes contact the ground and it seems like the airplane just doesn't >want to come unstuck. this would be in a no flaps situation. Anyone else >had this problem? > I find it better not to 'rotate'. I have my trim set at final airspeed setting, and the aircraft flys off by itself. If I put forward pressure on the stick, then in effect I am keeping the a/c on the ground past its' flying speed, therefore increasing T O roll. If I do it that way, yes, if I definitely 'rotate', then at times I've tapped the tail wheel. Same idea if the trim is set at cruise setting, the aircraft has to be more tail high to reach self fly off speed. Just some thoughts. John D John Darby RV6 N61764 flying johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Location
Scott; I have a 6 with O-320 E2D. I put the oil cooler on the left side of the rear baffle. I did have to relieve the side of the cooler just a little to clear the engine mount. The cooler is pretty high, so only a bout 1/3 to 1/2 is actually behind the cly. The baffle is cut out to fit the size of the cooler. My problem is that the oil runs on the cool side except in extremes summer conditions. I have put a ball valve in the line from the cooler to the engine and it is adjustable from inside the cockpit. Gives me good control over it in cool weather. The angle piece that is on the baffle edge, from the left side to the rear baff. is the major mount for the cooler. Hope this helps. If questions, feel free to e mail me direct. John D John Darby RV6 N61764 flying johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 1996
From: /249136/prosales/Paul Rosales <prosales(at)ladc.lockheed.com>
Subject: For Sale: Lyc. O-360 acces.
In article h94(at)excelsior.flash.net, redjar(at)flash.net (Red Jar Communications, Inc.) writes: > >I would like to announce the following items that are in need of a good >home: > >*Alternator*: Cessna, P/N: C611501-0102, 60 amp., 15 volt, Ford style > >*Carb*: Model: MA-4-5 Borg-Warner, P/N: 10-4164-1, S/N: K-42-7732 > >*Starter*: Prestolite - MZ4218, S/N: J000183 > >All items came off new certified engine from Lycoming '77 O-360-A1A 180hp., >never run - 0 time since NEW, preserved, excellent condition. I don't need >these parts for my Berkut. If interested, email at address below and make >offer. Thanks! (feel free to spread the word to the certified owners too) 8-) > >James Redmon >redmonj(at)flash.net > >See my Berkut project page: http://www.flash.net/~redjar > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "E. Amadio" <e_amadio(at)vaxxine.com>
Subject: Static System
Date: Jul 31, 1996
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB7F2E.D6C24660 I have read about a restoration of a Cessna 170 where they substituted = countersunk rivets for the four dome head rivets originaly instaled to = mount the static port in the interest of cleaning up the airframe. This resulted in grossly incorrect air speed readings. It seems the round head rivets were necessary to create the proper = amount of turbulence around the static port since when they were = reinstaled the errors disappeared. Is it possible your errors are being caused by too clean an instalation? = Might be worth investigating, it's only 4 rivets. Ernie Amadio, C-170-B C-FJJK Still finishing my RV-6 factory, e_amadio(at)vaxxine.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Pro-seal
Marc; I applied a layer about twice the thickness of a post card (or manila folder) and about 1/4 inch each side of the contact area. At the very forward tip of the ribs, I did about double this rate. Worked for me. If, when putting in the rivet, if there wasn't any oozing out of the hole, then I would dip the rivet shaft in some of it. Messy, but I don't think there has yet been devised a non messy pro-seal application procedure. John D John Darby RV6 N61764 flying johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel pump
Ed; I have heard such. Something about the diaphragm creating a stoppage in rare cases. There fore the so called by pass system that Vans had in a newsletter some time ago. Tracking down an actual occurrence of this is a lot like seeing the Loch Ness monster-- every one seems to know that someone saw it, but no one knows just who it was. John D >Is it>possible for the engine-driven fuel pump to fail catastrophically so that the>electric pump cannot pump fuel past it? > >Just curious... >Ed Bundy >ebundy2620(at)aol.com > John Darby RV6 N61764 flying johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 1996
From: chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel pump
aol.com!EBundy2620(at)matronics.com wrote: > > I have a question regarding the electric pump on a carburated engine. Is it > possible for the engine-driven fuel pump to fail catastrophically so that the > electric pump cannot pump fuel past it? > > Just curious... > Ed Bundy > ebundy2620(at)aol.com Ed, good questin, I've been thinking about that myself. In Tony's book he shows a fuel system with the mechanical pump and the electric pump in series. I've read some of the recent postings and apparently some of the builders have plumbed parallel fuel systems. Their reasoning, I guess, is that if there is a catastrophic failure of either fuel system from the point at which fuel leaves the selector until it enters the carb, that system can be bypassed completely. It makes real good sense but I wonder if it is necessary. A single fuel line with both pumps in series is certainly easier to install and maintain. Oh I almost forgot. The gascolator complicates parallel systems. Chet razer, installing baggage compartment walls and floor with finish kit due in a month and still haven't seen a flying 6A. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bcg007(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 31, 1996
Subject: Oil Canning
I've got my pre-punched right elevator in the jig ready for final fit with the skeleton and riveting. The top of the elevator skin is nice and tight, the bottom of the skin has one area between stiffners that oil cans. The stiffeners were drilled to the skins on a very flat surface and using clecos everywhere, so I'm confident I didn't introduce the problem that way. Using pre drilled skins prevented me from ensuring a nice tight fit before drilling skins to the spar (the skins and spar both have holes already) Anyway--I've got this problem--any advice on how to tighten up an oil can effect in the bottom of the elevator and about in the middle of the skin? The ends of the skin are tight. Jon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 1996
From: Tim Lewis <lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil>
Subject: Navaid devices A/P, removable floor
I just started my RV-6A quickbuild kit, and one of the first things on the agenda is fastening the floors (F-647R&L baggage floors, F-642L&R floor skins, and F-639/640 removable floor skins). In the future I intend to install a Navaid Devices autopilot, with the servo mounted in the cockpit under the floor. My question: Can the servo be installed by removing just F-639/640 (the forward, removable floor skins), or will I need to remove F-642L&R? If I'll have to remove F642L/R in the future, should I use nutplates and screws rather than pop rivets? From searching the archives I've found that there are a couple of people on the list with installations similar to what I'm planning. I'd sure like to hear your experiences. Thanks, Tim Lewis CapnTim(at)aol.com RV-6AQ #60023 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 1996
From: elon ormsby <ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov>
Subject: RPM rises with boost pump on
Hi Mitch, you wrote: > >After reading a few comments on this subject I wanted to point out a few things to avoid confusion on the list. > >Thanks for the detailed information. I am actually starting to understand the Bendix unit. In fact I'm starting to like it! >----------------------------- > >The system is by design, tolerant of fluctuation in supply fuel pressure. However, the system is always compensating for changes and I would not jump to the conclusion of "lean idle" as causal. It is a result. The servo, if properly set, will compensate for supply pressure changes within a finite range. >---- >Now we are getting somewhere. If SUPPLY PRESSURE is outside of the finite range (due to the "over"boost pump) the servo can't compensate. > >----------------------------------------------------- >(snip)This is also true with a carburetor, the float and valve serve as a regulator,remember, the bowl is vented. > >Good example. So lets see how critical supply pressure really is. The float shuts off the flow at some height in the fuel bowl. The carb is calibrated around this height. A 1/32" increase in height of the fuel will make the carb run rich. If you increase supply pressure 3 psi it will cause some style floats to RAISE 1/32" HIGHER before they shut of the fuel. You now have a rich carb. No jet change - all you did was raise pressure. Is the Bendix this sensitive to pressure? > >-------------------------------------------- >Ken, you didn't mention fuel pressures. The first thing I would do to troubleshoot is measure fuel pressure with and without the boost pump on and check for gross fluctuation. There is a spec. that the regulator should tolerate but I don't know it. 25-30 psi is typical range. Your problem is most likely due to the fuel pressure difference with and without the pump. > >Exactly my point since we started this thread. Since the boost pump initiates the problem the SUPPLY pressure is the first thing that should be looked at - AND the ABILITY of the servo to compensate for it. What are the factory specs? > >------------------------------------- >(snip) The mixture control section of the servo can be cleaned and checked but it's quite complicated. Lycoming Service instruction 1335 outlines maintenance of the mixture control section. The adjustment of the regulator section of the servo should be left to the factory. > >Aaha! All of the above tells me you got one extremely delicate hombre - and maybe, not very tolerant of out-of-spec fuel pressure. Probably expensive too! > >Thanks Mitch, > >Elon >ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 1996
From: elon ormsby <ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov>
Subject: Re: RPM rises with boost pump on
Dan thanks for the reply. I am not trying to be critical I just want to learn more precise info about the Bendix unit. > >-------------you said--------------------- >"The Bendix system is port, constant flow. The Bendix injector unit meters flow based on mass airflow through a venturi in the throttle assembly". > >True mass airflow units use the HOT WIRE method for precision measurement. They were so trouble prone that most manufactures gave up and went to the speed density method (not true mass flow). Is the Bendix a HOT-Wire system? >------------------------------------- > >"It then adjust the pressure to the nozzles, which are precision orifices. Therefore the flow rate is directly proportional to the pressure. The same pressure goes to all nozzles through one outlet line from the injector to the flow dicvider. At the flow divider (basically a 4 way "T" fitting) the fuel goes to the nozzels. There is no timing at all. Only the pressure varies. In fact many certified airplane manuf. use the pressure at the flow divider to provide fuel flow rates to a cockpit indicator. > >I agree to all of the above. But all FI systems rely on specific DELIVERY (or supply) PRESSURE to some metering device. This delivery pressure is usually held to a close tolerance and should not vary. AFTER the metering device the pressure is variable going to the constant flow injector. What I am suggesting is that if the delivery pressure is wrong the metering device is thrown off because it is calibrated for a very specific supply pressure. >--------------------------------------- > >"Now to the real problem. I think that the RPM rise is due to a lean mixture" > >I agree. >---------------nit picking stuff---------------------- > >"There are three basic types of fuel injection, Port injection (timed) which is what;s in most cars these days, Throttle body injection (used to be known as pressure carbeurators in the old days), and port constant flow". > >OK, but port injection can be BOTH timed (today's solenoid injectors) OR constant flow. The Rochester (Corvette FI) was a port, constant-flow, mechanical. BTW boosted fuel pressure could be as high as 400 psi on the Rochester Unit! Throttle Body Injection is found on many trucks today. Its still timed injection (solenoids) it just a TBI mounted where the carb used to be. Its cheaper. > >-Elon >ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bcg007(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 01, 1996
Subject: Re: Fuel pump
>> I have a question regarding the electric pump on a carburated engine. Is >it >> possible for the engine-driven fuel pump to fail catastrophically so that >the >> electric pump cannot pump fuel past it? >> I read an article recently on fuel systems (can't remember where, but I'll look for it) that suggested putting a line with a check valve in it around the mechanical pump for series fule systems...... Jon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 1996
From: elon ormsby <ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov>
Subject: RPM rises with boost pump on
Hi Mitch, you wrote: After reading a few comments on this subject I wanted to point out a few things to avoid confusion on the list. Thanks for the detailed information. I am actually starting to understand the Bendix unit. In fact I'm starting to like it! ----------------------------- The system is by design, tolerant of fluctuation in supply fuel pressure. However, the system is always compensating for changes and I would not jump to the conclusion of "lean idle" as causal. It is a result. The servo, if properly set, will compensate for supply pressure changes within a finite range. ---- Now we are getting somewhere. If SUPPLY PRESSURE is outside of the finite range (due to the "over"boost pump) the servo can't compensate. ----------------------------------------------------- (snip)This is also true with a carburetor, the float and valve serve as a regulator,remember, the bowl is vented. Good example. So lets see how critical supply pressure really is. The float shuts off the flow at some height in the fuel bowl. The carb is calibrated around this height. A 1/32" increase in height of the fuel will make the carb run rich. If you increase supply pressure 3 psi it will cause some style floats to RAISE 1/32" HIGHER before they shut of the fuel. You now have a rich carb. No jet change - all you did was raise pressure. Is the Bendix this sensitive to pressure? -------------------------------------------- Ken, you didn't mention fuel pressures. The first thing I would do to troubleshoot is measure fuel pressure with and without the boost pump on and check for gross fluctuation. There is a spec. that the regulator should tolerate but I don't know it. 25-30 psi is typical range. Your problem is most likely due to the fuel pressure difference with and without the pump. Exactly my point since we started this thread. Since the boost pump initiates the problem the SUPPLY pressure is the first thing that should be looked at - AND the ABILITY of the servo to compensate for it. What are the factory specs? ------------------------------------- (snip) The mixture control section of the servo can be cleaned and checked but it's quite complicated. Lycoming Service instruction 1335 outlines maintenance of the mixture control section. The adjustment of the regulator section of the servo should be left to the factory. Aaha! All of the above tells me you got one extremely delicate hombre - and maybe, not very tolerant of out-of-spec fuel pressure. Probably expensive too! Thanks Mitch, Elon ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 01, 1996
Subject: Re: My project
Piers: Welcome aboard the RV-List. I'm sure you'll fine answers to any question you may have. Be sure to download the archives and read through them for the answers to the most often asked questions. Good luch with you project. Fred Stucklen Rv-6A N925RV wstucklen(at)aol.com (730 Hrs in 2 Yrs 11 Mo's) << I'm a mechanical engineering student and also a commercial pilot. So I decided, along with some friends and finance from the university to undertake a project to build an RV6A. So far we are up to assembling the skeleton of the horizontal stabilizer. We are about to mount our work so far onto the jig. We are hoping to have the entire project completed by the end of 1998. Piers Walker >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 01, 1996
Subject: Re: Pro-seal
<< I am preparing to seal my fueltanks with proseal. I have a question regarding its application. What have you been using for dispensing of the proseal......popsicle sticks, plastic spreaders,.?.. and how much did you put on the ribs and skin before riveting ? >> Use less then you think might be necessary, a beed about 1/4 inch is plenty. Wear multiple pairs of rubber gloves and pull 'em off as they get gooped-up. Plan ahead. As for application, I used the Seal Pack product/method which you might be able to duplicate by putting the mixture in a LARGE syringe with the tip cut-off to alow the 1/4" beed. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough)
Date: Aug 01, 1996
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Location
I put my cooler in the same spot as John D did with the angle piece also being the main support. Don't forget to use long bolts with spacers all the way through the cooler to try and spread the load. I also braced the cooler with a piece of angle that went diagonally across from the outside baffle to an inside bolt on the cooler. This helps prevent the cooler from twisting. Not sure if its needed but it didn't really take much. One hang up of putting the cooler here is that if you have cermichromed cylinders and decide to run your engine in on the ground AND you use a shroud, you have to take off the baffles and therefore have to find somewhere temporarily to mount the cooler during the ground run. Not a really big deal, but something to be aware of ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bcg007(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 01, 1996
Subject: Oil Canning reply from Vans
> if you get an answer to this, I'd sure like to hear it... > Anyway--I've got this problem--any advice on how to tighten up an oil can > effect in the bottom of the elevator and about in the middle of the skin? > The ends of the skin are tight. Reply from Vans about oil canning question: Oil canning (slight) is unavoidable in general on the flat areas of the elevators and rudder. Jon RV6 Emp near complete ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Marc.Degirolamo@140-15.mx1.fidonet.org (Marc Degirolamo)
Date: Jul 30, 1996
Subject: Pro-seal
I am preparing to seal my fueltanks with proseal. I have a question regarding its application. What have you been using for dispensing of the proseal......popsicle sticks, plastic spreaders,.?.. and how much did you put on the ribs and skin before riveting ? marc.Degirolamo@140-15.mx1.fidonet.org tail done finishing wings fuse in jig ... OFFLINE 1.40 * Rv-ing for FUN -- |Fidonet: Marc Degirolamo 1:140/15 |Internet: Marc.Degirolamo@140-15.mx1.fidonet.org | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his/her own. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Speaking of flaps
>I find it better not to 'rotate'. I have my trim set at final airspeed >setting, and the aircraft flys off by itself. If I put forward pressure on >the stick, then in effect I am keeping the a/c on the ground past its' >flying speed, therefore increasing T O roll. If I do it that way, yes, if I >definitely 'rotate', then at times I've tapped the tail wheel. Same idea if >the trim is set at cruise setting, the aircraft has to be more tail high to >reach self fly off speed. >Just some thoughts. >John D >John Darby RV6 N61764 flying John, You know, In the 300 hours I've put on the airplane, I guess I've never let the airplane fly off in three point. Probably something in my tailwheel training years ago having to do with the extreme angle of attack creating a considerale amount of induced drag. I was taught to decrease the angle of attack on TO roll to lessedn drag. I'll try your method and see how it works. Another question for you flying RVer's. Scenario: High density altitude and no good, emergency landing places. In other words, I want to gain as much altitude so I can savely return to the airport if I have problems. What would be your take off procedure, especially in relation to flap setting. I want to gain the most altitude as quickly as possible, safely. It feels like to me that a no flaps take off and a climb of 105 indicated works best. I hesitate to climb any slower due to visibility and CHT overheating problems. Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel gauges, etc.
>Rick; If I were doing it again, I wouldn't want to mess with the rinky dink >fuel gauges that are so grossly inaccurate as to make them virtually >decorations on the instrument panel. Get a device such as Matts to start >with. The totalizer concept is vastly preferable in my opinion. I've got >the standard Vans fuel gauges, and I calibrated them with the a/c in level >flight att. Early in the time, I had an occasion to fly it down on fuel >over about 3 flights. The left tank was indicating just below 1/2 when I >was preparing to land. At fill up, the left tank took 18.5 gals to fill!! >The clock is the only way to go with those kind of gauges. >If Matts device isn't sat. for FAA reqmts, then put in one gauge with a >selector switch for FAA, then have Matts device to use. >Just my opinion. I'll bet there are some differing ones out there. >John D >John Darby RV6 N61764 flying >johnd@our-town.com Rick, John is right. I look at the fuel gauges as satisfying a legal requirement. Perhaps one of the programable fuel gauges (E.I.?) or Vision Micro would be an answer. I'm considering putting one gauge with a left right switch on my nest RV. I think a fuel totalizer/fuel flow like Matt offers, would be a geat idea. I use a stop watch (although my bladder generally tells me when three hours are up) and also have a calibrated dip tube for probing the tanks. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Oil Canning
>I've got my pre-punched right elevator in the jig ready for final fit with >the skeleton and riveting. The top of the elevator skin is nice and tight, >the bottom of the skin has one area between stiffners that oil cans. The >stiffeners were drilled to the skins on a very flat surface and using clecos >everywhere, so I'm confident I didn't introduce the problem that way. Using >pre drilled skins prevented me from ensuring a nice tight fit before drilling >skins to the spar (the skins and spar both have holes already) > >Anyway--I've got this problem--any advice on how to tighten up an oil can >effect in the bottom of the elevator and about in the middle of the skin? > The ends of the skin are tight. > >Jon Jon, You might add an additional stiffner in the problem area. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Navaid devices A/P, removable floor
>I just started my RV-6A quickbuild kit, and one of the first things on the >agenda is fastening the floors (F-647R&L baggage floors, F-642L&R floor >skins, and F-639/640 removable floor skins). In the future I intend to >install a Navaid Devices autopilot, with the servo mounted in the cockpit >under the floor. >My question: Can the servo be installed by removing just F-639/640 (the >forward, removable floor skins), or will I need to remove F-642L&R? >Tim Lewis >CapnTim(at)aol.com >RV-6AQ #60023 Tim, My installation can be accessed by removal of the right forward, up slopping skin. Positioning the servo at this location needs to be very precise because of the large throw of the aileron push tube in this area. The small rod ends on the servo push rod tend to bottom out. One builder mounted his servo at this location and used a longer rod from servo to bottom of the stick and attached the end to the pilots stick. This means that everything operateds at a shallower angle, which is good. I'm still thinking of mounting the servo for my next six in the wing. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 1996
From: Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)interhop.net>
Subject: Re: John Cocker
>.My E mail is jcocker(at)medhumor.com > John Cocker. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 1996
From: Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)interhop.net>
Subject: Re: Joe Hine
>REGARDING Joe Hine > >Joe: >What is your private e-mail address? I have tried but can't get through. >My apologies to the RV-list. >Elon >ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov > > >Mt E Mail is : jcocker(at)medhumor.com John Cocker. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash)
Subject: Re: Oil Canning reply from Vans
Date: Aug 01, 1996
>>> if you get an answer to this, I'd sure like to hear it... >> >>> Anyway--I've got this problem--any advice on how to tighten up an oil can >>> effect in the bottom of the elevator and about in the middle of the skin? >>> The ends of the skin are tight. >> >>Reply from Vans about oil canning question: Oil canning (slight) is >>unavoidable in general on the flat areas of the elevators and rudder. >> >>Jon >>RV6 Emp near complete >> Well, not quite un-avoidable. One can warm the skins throughly before installing them - I place them in the hot sun until they are too hot to handle, then quickly cleco and rivet them, using a heat lamp to try to keep them hot. Do not finish rivet them if while cleco'd they have an obvious oil can, it will NOT go away. Investigate and if necessary, rework the holes using LOTS of clecos. Most problems of this nature come from not using enough clecos to hold the sheets in place: Put a cleco in every hole if necessary! The pattern used while riveting is very important to try to avoid these annoying problems. Always start in the middle and work out, think out it as "ironing" a piece of cloth.... (You still may wind up with an oil can, but with this technique, probably not!). Stupid Metal Man Tricks #99 For Sale Sheet Metal and Air Tools, write for list. Bill NAsh AIRCRAFT REMANUFACTURING 1291 E. VISTA WAY, #150 VISTA, CA. 92084 (619) 749 0239 FAX: 749 6384 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca
Date: Aug 01, 1996
Subject: Engine/Prop Controls
I'm working on the throttle, mixture and prop controls. I would like to hear from anyone with an opinion on the best way to arrange them. Two competing concepts that are being considered are: 1 Three ACS verniers arranged vertically on the centre column provided with the kit(T P M top down). 2 A two lever quadrant (T P) on the centre console with a vernier(M) below. I am sinistral and Cessna trained, sitting on the left with the controls in my right hand is preferred for me. The archive has numerous posts on the merits of which side the controls are on. My real concern is the human factors of trying to manipulate all of those things trying to get my injected 360 started on a hot day. Leg room is at a premium since I tend to wear most vehicles I try to get into. My panel space is spoken for so a sub panel to allow for a horizontal version of concept "1" won't work. David Fried DF-6 C-____ dfried(at)dehavilland.ca P.S. I watched Ken Hitchmough's 6A on it's first flight the other week. The aircraft looks great, particularly with the Air Beetle landing gear. I'm still plugging away... (sigh). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 1996
From: Rick Osgood <rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us>
Subject: Re: Fuel gauges, etc.
Bob Skinner wrote: > > >Rick; If I were doing it again, I wouldn't want to mess with the rinky dink > >fuel gauges that are so grossly inaccurate as to make them virtually > >decorations on the instrument panel. Get a device such as Matts to start > >with. The totalizer concept is vastly preferable in my opinion. I've got > >the standard Vans fuel gauges, and I calibrated them with the a/c in level > >flight att. Early in the time, I had an occasion to fly it down on fuel > >over about 3 flights. The left tank was indicating just below 1/2 when I > >was preparing to land. At fill up, the left tank took 18.5 gals to fill!! > >The clock is the only way to go with those kind of gauges. > >If Matts device isn't sat. for FAA reqmts, then put in one gauge with a > >selector switch for FAA, then have Matts device to use. > >Just my opinion. I'll bet there are some differing ones out there. > >John D > >John Darby RV6 N61764 flying > >johnd@our-town.com > > Rick, John is right. I look at the fuel gauges as satisfying a legal > requirement. Perhaps one of the programable fuel gauges (E.I.?) or Vision > Micro would be an answer. I'm considering putting one gauge with a left > right switch on my nest RV. I think a fuel totalizer/fuel flow like Matt > offers, would be a geat idea. I use a stop watch (although my bladder > generally tells me when three hours are up) and also have a calibrated dip > tube for probing the tanks. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net Thanks Bob. Would you suggest going to a reasonably cheap gauge if the intent is to use a system like Matt's as the primary? Why does the FAA not accept a system like Matt's as enough?? Thanks again Rick ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 1996
From: "tom metty" <Tom=Metty%Foreman%MaintSvc(at)bfmailer.bf.umich.edu>
Subject: Test cell break-in
I have a freshly overhauled 0-360 and I'm looking for ideas on breaking it in on the ground before taxi testing and the first flight. I saw the piece Tony did on shrouding for ground running. Does anyone have experience with this? I assume I'll use the manufacturers test cell procedure as far as power settings and running times go. 4 CHT's, 4EGT's, Ellison, and Light Speed Engineering. tmetty(at)umich.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
From: J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough)
Date: Aug 01, 1996
Subject: Re: Engine/Prop Controls
rv-list(at)matronics.com,Internet writes: I'm working on the throttle, mixture and prop controls. I would like to hear from anyone with an opinion on the best way to arrange them. Two competing concepts that are being considered are: 1 Three ACS verniers arranged vertically on the centre column provided with the kit(T P M top down). 2 A two lever quadrant (T P) on the centre console with a vernier(M) below. I am sinistral and Cessna trained, sitting on the left with the controls in my right hand is preferred for me. The archive has numerous posts on the merits of which side the controls are on. My real concern is the human factors of trying to manipulate all of those things trying to get my injected 360 started on a hot day. Leg room is at a premium since I tend to wear most vehicles I try to get into. My panel space is spoken for so a sub panel to allow for a horizontal version of concept "1" won't work. David Fried DF-6 C-____ dfried(at)dehavilland.ca David, what about Gord Baxters arrangement with a little sub panel right at the top of the centre console with one on either side and another below in a sort of inverted ^. Not quite like a horzontal version of #1 Ken ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Terryg(at)SceptreCal.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM
Date: Aug 01, 1996
Subject: Oil Canning reply from Vans
Jon -- you said (quoting Van)... "Oil canning (slight) is unavoidable in general on the flat areas of the elevators and rudder." Does that comment apply only to parts made with pre-punch skins? It may sound like I'm boasting, but I drilled my own skins (no pre-punching) and I think I managed to avoid any oilcanning. Tapping each bay (between the ribs and spars) produces a nice melodic 'ping', not a thunk. I really don't know if you can tell anything by that, but... Cheers... Terry in Calgary S/N 24414 "Empennage" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 1996
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Fuel gauges, etc.
Bear in mind that fuel totalizers such as the Matronics unit do NOT measure the fuel in the tanks, only fuel FLOW, and must be manually told how much fuel is in the tanks whenever you put some in. Their "fuel remaining" reading is only as good as the information you gave it the last time you added fuel. Usually this just translates to pressing a button every time you fill it up, but if you don't fill it all the way, or forget to press the button, then the calculations will be off. If you have a fuel leak that you don't detect and you're depending solely on the fuel totalizer, then you're screwed. There are "precision" fuel gauges on the market, most of which use capacitance type senders and can be calibrated to accurately display the fuel remaining in an asymmetrical tank like the RVs, however they are of course more $$ (on the order of $700-800 if I remember correctly), and the capacitance senders are more complicated to install. I don't have a problem with the "cheapo" Stewart-Warners that Vans sells. I learned how to fly in Cessnas and we all know how accurate THOSE gauges are -- I just consider them a cross-check with my visual check and wristwatch (or fuel totalizer, if present). I hope I never get to the point where I trust any single fuel indicator 100%. I will have the simple gauges in my airplane as well as a fuel totalizer, and if one of them indicates low fuel I figure it'll be time to land, period. Randall Henderson, RV-6 Editor, Home Wing Newsletter http://www.edt.com/homewing randall(at)edt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 1996
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Fuel gauges, etc.
Bear in mind that fuel totalizers such as the Matronics unit do NOT measure the fuel in the tanks, only fuel FLOW, and must be manually told how much fuel is in the tanks whenever you put some in. Their "fuel remaining" reading is only as good as the information you gave it the last time you added fuel. Usually this just translates to pressing a button every time you fill it up, but if you don't fill it all the way, or forget to press the button, then the calculations will be off. If you have a fuel leak that you don't detect and you're depending solely on the fuel totalizer, then you're screwed. There are "precision" fuel gauges on the market, most of which use capacitance type senders and can be calibrated to accurately display the fuel remaining in an asymmetrical tank like the RVs, however they are of course more $$ (on the order of $700-800 if I remember correctly), and the capacitance senders are more complicated to install. I don't have a problem with the "cheapo" Stewart-Warners that Vans sells. I learned how to fly in Cessnas and we all know how accurate THOSE gauges are -- I just consider them a cross-check with my visual check and wristwatch (or fuel totalizer, if present). I hope I never get to the point where I trust any single fuel indicator 100%. I will have the simple gauges in my airplane as well as a fuel totalizer, and if one of them indicates low fuel I figure it'll be time to land, period. Randall Henderson, RV-6 Editor, Home Wing Newsletter http://www.edt.com/homewing randall(at)edt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
Date: Aug 01, 1996
Subject: Fuel Tank/Fuse Connect
I am mounting my gear legs on my 6A. I have the fuse still in the jig and mounted my wings (this is a real thrill to see the wings on!!! I am relieved that the rear spar connects line up perfectly--I must have measured this 1,000 times. ) While the wings are on I am doing all I can such as mounting F696. This is the anglr which is attached to the fuselage and then the fuel tank. Page 46 of the plans shows F696 is attached between the top longeron and another piece of angle running back from the firewall. My tank is linning up lower than what is shown in the plans. I can not attach F696 to the angle as shown in Section C-C'. My F696 will have to be hanging below the second angle which comes from the firewall. Has anyone else had this? I know it all sounds confusing but if you have been their maybe you can figure out what I am asking. Thanks Ross Mickey rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 01, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel gauges, etc.
>> Rick, John is right. I look at the fuel gauges as satisfying a legal >> requirement. Perhaps one of the programable fuel gauges (E.I.?) or Vision >> Micro would be an answer. I'm considering putting one gauge with a left >> right switch on my nest RV. I think a fuel totalizer/fuel flow like Matt >> offers, would be a geat idea. I use a stop watch (although my bladder >> generally tells me when three hours are up) and also have a calibrated dip >> tube for probing the tanks. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net > >Thanks Bob. Would you suggest going to a reasonably cheap gauge if the >intent is to use a system like Matt's as the primary? Why does the FAA >not accept a system like Matt's as enough?? > >Thanks again >Rick Rick, The Mitchell gauge I used is in, what I would call, the mid price range. Cheap to me is Ispro or S&(use your imagination, I'm not going to start a war:) I like the looks of the modular Mitchell gauges. You can have these arranged to suit you, the way I understand it, they take up little space, they're all electric (no fuel pressure or oil pressure lines in the cockpit) and they remove from the front of the panel if they have to be repaired. One plus for the float/sender fuel gauge system, if it is accurate, is the ability to detect a massive fuel leak from a tank. I would think that this would be a very remote possibility, but---. Sorry, can't explain the FAA for you. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DerFlieger(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 02, 1996
Subject: Re: Engine/Prop Controls
<< 1 Three ACS verniers arranged vertically on the centre column provided with the kit(T P M top down). >> Very few folks I know, including myself, do not like a vernier on the throttle, or MP in your case. It's too slow acting. My opinion based on experience. Don't know if you can fit or not, but the sub-panel you mention need only be a few inches wide, and you can recess it a bit, say an inch, and that will give you more room. I removed my center console altogether, since I am changing to electric elevator trim and flaps. Those switches can be planned into the panel. If you are any size at all, you will not like working under the panel with the center console in your way. It's miserable!!! Especially if you wear bifocals or trifocals. Jim Stugart ________________________________________________________________________________
From: walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com
Date: Aug 02, 1996
Subject: Rudder/Elevator stiffeners ??
I have a problem with the trailing edge of my rudder. If you stand behind it ( as if it were mounted on the plane ) and run your hand down either side of the trailing edge, you will feel a depression as you reach each stiffener. This is most apparant at the middle stiffener where the skin flexes in a good 1/16". This occurs primarily at the first ( trailing edge ) rivet of each stiffener. I'm working on my right elevator with an eye toward avoiding this phenomenon. Two possibilities jump out at me. 1. The stiffeners are too close to the trailing edge. As a result of the cracking problem, the plans show them right up to the radius of the bend. 2. The skin was bowed to begin with and the stiffeners just aggravate the situation trying to make the skins lay flat. The good news is that I couldn't rivet it together in that condition. So it sits in it' V-jig all clecoed up with no place to go until I figure something out on the elevators. Any opinions would be appreciated. thanks John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca
Date: Aug 02, 1996
Subject: Engine/Prop Controls (2)
OK I hadn't thought of that one. It's like the quadrant thing only using verniers. I finally tossed out that quadrant idea. There was just too much going on in that area to come up with a nice installation that would be smooth and free of interference. Perhaps another time with a different approach. The ACS verniers are 1.25" in diameter and require .75" holes in the support. If I allow 1.00" between edges of adjacent verniers, the centres must be 2.25 apart. The centre console will have to be cut and attached to the bottom of the sub panel. It looks like there will be an intrusion of only .75" wide by 2.25" high by my right knee. I think I'll do a test fit as I like the idea of the throttle and prop controls at the same level. Thanks. David Fried DF-6 C-____ dfried(at)dehavilland.ca ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine/Prop Controls Author: rv-list(at)matronics.com at unix.po Date: 8/1/96 06:24 PM David, what about Gord Baxters arrangement with a little sub panel right at the top of the centre console with one on either side and another below in a sort of inverted ^. Not quite like a horzontal version of #1 Ken ________________________________________________________________________________
From: david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca
Date: Aug 02, 1996
Subject: Engine/Prop Controls (3)
I can see how having to depress that button would slow gross throttle changes (aerobatics?). On the other hand, the fine control offered by the vernier sounds nice for cross country work. I understand from this post that most people like them and very few do not. Is there a specific flight condition where you find response too slow with the vernier? David Fried DF-6 C-____ dfried(at)dehavilland.ca ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine/Prop Controls Date: 8/2/96 09:36 AM << 1 Three ACS verniers arranged vertically on the centre column provided with the kit(T P M top down). >> Very few folks I know, including myself, do not like a vernier on the throttle, or MP in your case. It's too slow acting. My opinion based on experience. Don't know if you can fit or not, but the sub-panel you mention need only be a few inches wide, and you can recess it a bit, say an inch, and that will give you more room. I removed my center console altogether, since I am changing to electric elevator trim and flaps. Those switches can be planned into the panel. If you are any size at all, you will not like working under the panel with the center console in your way. It's miserable!!! Especially if you wear bifocals or trifocals. Jim Stugart ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Matt993(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 02, 1996
Subject: Re: Test cell break-in
please copy me any responses! thanks Matt ________________________________________________________________________________
From: sheinlein(at)VNET.IBM.COM
Date: Aug 02, 1996
Subject: Rudder/Elevator stiffeners ??
>I have a problem with the trailing edge of my rudder. If you stand behind >it ( as if it were mounted on the plane ) and run your hand down either side >of the trailing edge, you will feel a depression as you reach each stiffener. >This is most apparant at the middle stiffener where the skin flexes in a >good 1/16". This occurs primarily at the first ( trailing edge ) rivet of >each stiffener. I noticed a similar problem when I got ready to close up my rudder. It was because I did not make the trailing edge bend tight enough. This turned out to be one of the harder feats to accomplish, because trying to maintain the 1/8" trailing edge bend and closing the rudder fully seemed to be two mutually exclusive events! In the end, I got the rudder closed as far as I could (a couple of inches between the skin and the spar) and rivetted it together. There is still a slight depression near the stiffners, but not nearly as bad as it was originally. Hope this helps! Stephen Heinlein 6/6A (second main wing spar) sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 02, 1996
Subject: Re: Engine/Prop Controls and Ergonomics
I believe what Jim was trying to express is that most people, including himself, DID NOT like the locking vernier type control (button on the end). This has been my observation as well. Those pilots that are used to flying tandem craft prefer the quadrant type controls on the left in order to maintain the stick in their right hand. Those of us trained in spam can left seats are used to the standard control arrangment in the SBS RV-6 and would prefer that the throttle be the friction type as opposed to the vernier type in order to have easier access to a fist full of throttle in an emergency go around situation, without fumbling to press a button. I have the locking vernier control on my Rotax 532 powered Kitfox only because the two slide type carburetors require fairly strong return springs that would result in the friction type control gradually creeping closed. Also, the narrow power band of the 2-stroke is more easily managed in cruise using the dial feature. In my RV-6A I am making the throttle a black friction type control (1/2" mounting hole) and both the blue prop and red mixture controls vernier type (3/4" mounting hole). This is the most common arrangement I have seen in the field and seems the most logical for SBS craft making it easy to fly from either seat. My subpanel is 8"W X 2"H and controls are on 3" centers. My instrument panel height is 11.5". I have no center console and have electric trim to maximize leg area. I am tall, so my sliding canopy is installed in the modified (tall pilot) postion and I have 41" vertically from seat pan to canopy glass. Further, the swinging rudder pedals are moved about 1" forward of the "plans" position although I didn't cut the center support bracket shorter to allow any future owner to revert to the plans position or slightly shorter. TTFN G. VanRemortel Vanremog(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 1996
From: "Charles Borne, III" <caborne(at)alpha.melamine.com>
Subject: RV-4 Wing Kit Search
Chuck Borne, RV-4 s/n-4069, currently completing tail kit. Looking for an RV-4 wing kit in 0-50% completion stage located preferably in the south central/east or Gulf states. I'm located in southeast Louisiana between Baton Rouge and New Orleans. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 1996
From: Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder/Elevator stiffeners ??
John, I would like to make two recommendations: 1. Don't stand behind it and run your fingers down it 2. Go walk the flight line at your local airport and take a good look at the tail feathers on the manfactured AC IMHO - it will fly just fine! Dan Boudro RV-4 N9167Z Albuquerque, NM dboudro(at)nmia.com On Fri, 2 Aug 1996 cpeedy.ENET.dec.com!walsh(at)matronics.com wrote: > I have a problem with the trailing edge of my rudder. If you stand behind > it ( as if it were mounted on the plane ) and run your hand down either side > of the trailing edge, you will feel a depression as you reach each stiffener. > This is most apparant at the middle stiffener where the skin flexes in a > good 1/16". This occurs primarily at the first ( trailing edge ) rivet of > each stiffener. > > I'm working on my right elevator with an eye toward avoiding this phenomenon. > Two possibilities jump out at me. > > 1. The stiffeners are too close to the trailing edge. As a result of the > cracking problem, the plans show them right up to the radius of the bend. > > 2. The skin was bowed to begin with and the stiffeners just aggravate the > situation trying to make the skins lay flat. > > The good news is that I couldn't rivet it together in that condition. So it > sits in it' V-jig all clecoed up with no place to go until I figure > something out on the elevators. > > Any opinions would be appreciated. > > thanks > > John > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John.Perrin(at)sofkin.ca
Date: Aug 02, 1996
Subject: RV-8 Wing Kits
Fellow RV-8 builders - I just spoke to Vans, maybe I can save some phone calls. A wing kit order form has been sent to all registered RV-8 builders this week, wing kits are expected to be shipping by the end of August. I'm not speaking on behalf of the fine people at Van's, just relaying what I was just told. Hope its useful. John Perrin RV-8 # 80118 ------------------------------------------------------- John Perrin perrin(at)sofkin.ca (613) 831-0888 x 4082 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 1996
From: rdunn(at)ionet.net (Ronald M. Dunn)
Subject: RV-8 wing kit
Just got a letter from Van's yesterday advising me that the -8 wing kit is ready. It sells for $4150 plus $55 crating and includes a pre-BUILT spar, electric flaps, pre-punched skins and "the wing design itself is much simpler than earlier RVs, needing fewer parts and less fabrication". Ron (ruddering and calling the banker) Ron Dunn (RV-8 #80078) rdunn(at)ionet.net Broken Arrow, OK ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bcg007(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 02, 1996
Subject: Re: Oil Canning reply from Vans
Terry: I think pp skins are the problem. I cleco'd EVERY hole when drilling stiffners, spar, etc. Maybe I introduced it some other way. My rudder is fine--no oil canning at all. We'll see how the left elevator goes.... Jon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 1996
From: Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com>
Subject: Re: Engine/Prop Controls and Ergonomics
I have a vernier with lock and wouldn't have it any other way. I can set the throttle and leave it alone most of the time. A friend of mine wants a throttle quadrant, he will be doing formation flying and says moving the throttle back and forth is essential, I like keeping other AC as far away as possible. I guess there's room for all kinds of RV-4 flyers! :-) Dan Boudro RV-4 N9167Z Albuquerque, NM dboudro(at)nmia.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LairdOwens(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 02, 1996
Subject: Aileron question
Hello to everyone in RV Land, I have a quick question for anyone out there. What's the consensus about putting silicone (electronics grade) in the ailerons between the stiffeners? I don't see anything in either the Manual, Justice notes, or the the archives. Just wondering....... Laird RV-6 22923 (guess what part I'm working on) LairdOwens(at)aol.com P.S. Thanks to all who contribuite to the list (and Matt, too) for making this list such a great resource. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 1996
From: "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM>
Subject: Re: RV-8 wing kit
> Just got a letter from Van's yesterday advising me that the -8 wing kit > is ready. It sells for $4150 plus $55 crating and includes a > pre-BUILT spar, electric flaps, pre-punched skins and "the wing > design itself is much simpler than earlier RVs, needing fewer parts > and less fabrication". Ooooh, I wonder if any of this redesign will filter back to the earlier models? -- "Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!" -- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs "Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 1996
From: rdunn(at)ionet.net (Ron Dunn)
Subject: Re: Oil Canning reply from Vans
>Terry: >I think pp skins are the problem. I cleco'd EVERY hole when drilling >stiffners, spar, etc. Maybe I introduced it some other way. My rudder is >fine--no oil canning at all. We'll see how the left elevator goes.... > >Jon > Guys, The stiffners, nor the skins for the stiffners, are pre-punched in the in the pre-punched emp kits. Ron Ron Dunn [RV-8 #80078] (HS,VS done) rdunn(at)ionet.net Broken Arrow, OK ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 1996
From: dcahoon(at)intellinet.com (David Cahoon)
Subject: Lyc 0-320 150 to 160
I have an 0-320-E2A. what is required to convert it to a 160 hp model. I know that I do not need an STC but how do I find out what is involved in the conversion. Some have said it is just the pistons? I plan to buy all new cyl anyway so this would not be a problem. I called Lyc and they were no help. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 1996
From: /249136/prosales/Paul Rosales <prosales(at)ladc.lockheed.com>
Subject: King radios FS.
In article ije(at)nadine.teleport.com, vortecs(at)teleport.com (Dirk Rackley) writes: > >KX-155 (non GS) nav comm with used tray and install hardware (uses a 208 >indicator). > >KT-76A transponder with new tray and antenna. > >Both have just been yellow tagged, and have manuals. The serial numbers >have been checked with both King, and ACPI. > >$2100 shipped in the US. > > *** Shake, Rumble, and Humm!____________________________________ > | _ | > | Dirk Rackley | Anything! Given sufficient | > | Vortecs Aircraft *--{*}--* propulsion will fly. | > | Vancouver WA Rule 1. | > | Maintain propulsion. | > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Canning
>>Anyway--I've got this problem--any advice on how to tighten up an oil can >>effect in the bottom of the elevator and about in the middle of the skin? >> The ends of the skin are tight. >> >>Jon > >Jon, You might add an additional stiffner in the problem area. Bob Skinner >RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net > Jon; I agree with this adding stiffeners. I have a bad oil can on the fuse. panel that is just aft of and above the trailing edge of the wing. It's on both sides. Bad enough that it pops when I enter a full stall. Really got my attention the first time it did it. I put an angle diag. across it, just stuck it on (from the inside) with RTV. Got to go back and rivet it because one side has apparently popped loose on one end and it now makes even more noise. John D John Darby RV6 N61764 flying johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Test cell break-in
Tom; A while back I got Mattucks break in procedure and posted it for some who were interested. Don't know if you would like a copy or not. There seemed to be so many different procedures out there that I wanted to pin it down. They have both a test cell and in the airframe procedure. Let me know if you would like a copy. John D I >assume I'll use the manufacturers test cell procedure as far as power >settings and running times go. 4 CHT's, 4EGT's, Ellison, and Light Speed >Engineering. tmetty(at)umich.edu > John Darby RV6 N61764 flying johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Aileron question
>Hello to everyone in RV Land, >I have a quick question for anyone out there. What's the consensus about >putting silicone (electronics grade) in the ailerons between the stiffeners? > I don't see anything in either the Manual, Justice notes, or the the >archives. > Laird; About 2-3 years ago, Vans newsletter (RVAtor), they talked about different things they tried to cut down on the hairline cracks that sometimes show up in the last trailing edge rivet in the rudder, elev., and ailerons. Without the article, I think the RTV was the desired because it would stay stuck. But a point they mentioned was not to put it all the way into the radius bend, if so then it would defeat the self draining design of the area and poss. lead to moisture collecting. If you have the back issues, you may want to research it. John D John Darby RV6 N61764 flying johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 02, 1996
Subject: Re: Aileron question
<< I have a quick question for anyone out there. What's the consensus about putting silicone (electronics grade) in the ailerons between the stiffeners? I don't see anything in either the Manual, Justice notes, or the the archives. >> There really isn't any reason for it. The reason for using it in the rudder and elevators (other than putting more weight at the extreme aft end of the airplane ) is to keep flexing to a minimum at the bend. The reason it tends to flex is due to a rather long moment (distance of unsuported skin) that causes movement. IMHO, the aileron has such a small chord that very little flexing is possible. Ed Bundy (FINALLY finished final trimming of cowl) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Engine/Prop Controls (2)
> The ACS verniers are 1.25" in diameter and require .75" holes in the > support. If I allow 1.00" between edges of adjacent verniers, the > centres must be 2.25 apart. The centre console will have to be cut and > attached to the bottom of the sub panel. It looks like there will be > an intrusion of only .75" wide by 2.25" high by my right knee. I think > I'll do a test fit as I like the idea of the throttle and prop > controls at the same level. Thanks. > > David Fried David, I'd go with a conventional throttle with a twist lock instead of a vernier. If you ever need to grab a handfull of throttle, real quickly and miss the button on the vernier, you could find yourself up the creek. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Lyc 150 to 160 & neat Web pages
>I have an 0-320-E2A. what is required to convert it to a 160 hp model. I >know that I do not need an STC but how do I find out what is involved in the >conversion. Some have said it is just the pistons? I plan to buy all new cyl >anyway so this would not be a problem. I called Lyc and they were no help. David, I have the same engine and looked into this up grade, as well. It's my understanding (from talking to Lycoming) is that it is just a matter of the 160 hp pistons. I think with new cylinder assemblies, you would be in great shape. Whose cylinders are you going to use? You might also check for answers on the following Web pages. I don't know if there is additional info for you there, but they're pretty good aviation pages: Sacramento Sky Ranch: http://www.sierra.net/skyranch John Schwanner (?) TBO Advisor: http://members.aol.com/TBOHome/index.html Kas Thomas Greg Travis: http://gtravis.ucs.indiana.edu/ Lots of interesting stuff. Saw his posts on the Net and, from what I can gather, is supposed to know a lot about engines. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 02, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Aileron question
>I have a quick question for anyone out there. What's the consensus about >putting silicone (electronics grade) in the ailerons between the stiffeners? > I don't see anything in either the Manual, Justice notes, or the the >archives. >Laird RV-6 22923 (guess what part I'm working on) >LairdOwens(at)aol.com Laird, I've not heard of anyone having trouble with the ailerons. You might search the archives and double check. Also, by putting silicon in the TE of the ailerons, you would stand a chance of trapping water. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 02, 1996
Subject: Re: RV-8 wing kit
<< > pre-BUILT spar, electric flaps, pre-punched skins and "the wing > design itself is much simpler than earlier RVs, needing fewer parts > and less fabrication". Ooooh, I wonder if any of this redesign will filter back to the earlier models? >> I was at the factory last fall when they were building the wing for the #2 "proof of concept" RV8. Instead of seperate pieces of bar stock for the spars, they had a beautiful single piece CMC machined bar. It starts out very thick at the root, and as it gets to the points where the seperate pieces would end, the bar gets thinner there. It's really nice looking and only one piece. No more re-assembling and trying to hold everything tight while riveting. Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bcg007(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 03, 1996
Subject: Re: Oil Canning reply from Vans
>>Terry: >>I think pp skins are the problem. I cleco'd EVERY hole when drilling >>stiffners, spar, etc. Maybe I introduced it some other way. My rudder is >>fine--no oil canning at all. We'll see how the left elevator goes.... >> >>Jon >> > >Guys, > >The stiffners, nor the skins for the stiffners, are pre-punched in the in >the pre-punched emp kits. > >Ron Right--I just finished it. But if the skin/spar drilling leaves any slack, oil canning is likely. The PP skins are great, but leave little latitude for pulling skins tight before drilling to the spar or using a drill/cleco sequence that "irons out" potential slack..... Jon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DerFlieger(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 03, 1996
Subject: Re: Engine/Prop Controls (3)
<< Is there a specific flight condition where you find response too slow with the vernier? >> Take off and landing! Jim Stugart ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DerFlieger(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 03, 1996
Subject: Re: Engine/Prop Controls (2)
<< David, I'd go with a conventional throttle with a twist lock instead of a vernier. If you ever need to grab a handfull of throttle, real quickly and miss the button on the vernier, you could find yourself up the creek. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net >> Bob, Sounds like you've been there, done that. Amen! Jim Stugart ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com
Date: Aug 02, 1996
Subject: Lyc 0-320 150 to 160
RV>I have an 0-320-E2A. what is required to convert it to a 160 hp model. I RV>know that I do not need an STC but how do I find out what is involved in the RV>conversion. Some have said it is just the pistons? I plan to buy all new cyl RV>anyway so this would not be a problem. I called Lyc and they were no help. I believe it might even just be the rings and not the whole cylinder. I had the conversion done on my Cherokee 140 engine about 3 years ago. If I remember right, the STC was purchased from RAM. I don't know if this was the STC to put the 160 hp in a Cherokee or to convert the engine. All the paperwork is in the airplane at the hangar. I'll be out there tomorrow and will get the specific info. for you if you're interested. Could you please send me your name and e-mail address via private e-mail. My e-mail reader does not display the sender's true name or e-mail address. More tomorrow... Rod Woodard RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com Loveland, Colorado RV-8, #80033 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Quick Build Kit
Date: Aug 03, 1996
Last night, I got back from 2 days at Oshkosh. This is just a quick note for those who weren't able to make it this year. Van's had their -6 quick build kit on display. All I can really say is -- about two years from now, someone is going to buy a quick build kit and still be several months ahead of me. Pretty amazing. I'm not sure how it still falls under the 51% rule. Definitely worth the money. -Joe -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037 Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg 6121 St. Croix Ave. N. Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Marc.Degirolamo@140-15.mx1.fidonet.org (Marc Degirolamo)
Date: Jul 30, 1996
Subject: Easy way to mea
On 07-29-96 rv-list(at)matronics.com wrote to degirolamo... r > From: 1:13/10 r > r > From: Jack Gageby <lafn.lafn.org!aj752(at)matronics.com> r > Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com r > r > Does anyone have recommendations on an easy, quick, and/or simple, way r > to r > accurately measure and mix proseal? r > r > r > --- I am at this point as well . What I have done is make up a barscale which gives the proper 10:1 ratio. I bought an old postal scale and robbed the parts out of it and built a scale to give the proper ratio. This simple consisted of using a piece of 3/16 x 1 flat and soldering the fulcrum point 2" from one hole and 20" from the other. I then welded a piece of 2" square tubing to the short end, cut a hole in the top of it, and filled it with lead shot till the scale balanced out with all the trays on it. Basically this is a similar setup as described in the builders manual using a clamp as the movable balance point. Trouble is I could not get this setup to work with small quantities of proseal ie. 1oz , there was simply too much friction in the system to make it work properly. If you want I could send you a picture or drawing of the scale, it seams to work quite nicely. Marc.Degirolamo@140-15.mx1.fidonet.org ... OFFLINE 1.40 * RAAC 4901 Saskatoon -- |Fidonet: Marc Degirolamo 1:140/15 |Internet: Marc.Degirolamo@140-15.mx1.fidonet.org | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his/her own. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 03, 1996
From: barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart)
Subject: Re: Lyc 0-320 150 to 160
dcahoon(at)intellinet.com (David Cahoon) wrote: >I have an 0-320-E2A. what is required to convert it to a 160 hp model. I >know that I do not need an STC but how do I find out what is involved in the >conversion. Some have said it is just the pistons? I plan to buy all new cyl >anyway so this would not be a problem. I called Lyc and they were no help. All you need are the high compression pistons. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart barnhart(at)a.crl.com rv-6 sn 23744 finishing kit on order fuselage out of the jig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 03, 1996
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Location
John A: What's an Oberg oil filter? Bill Boyd contemplating engine overhaul and waiting on the finish kit - RV-6A. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 03, 1996
Subject: Re: Easy way to mea
<< lead shot till the scale balanced out with all the trays on it. Basically this is a similar setup as described in the builders manual using a clamp as the movable balance point. Trouble is I could not get this setup to work with small quantities of proseal ie. 1oz , there was simply too much friction in the system to make it work properly. If you want I could send >> If anyone you know builds RC aircraft they probably have a "High Point" balancer. I've had one of these for years, they're used to precisely balance airplane and boat props. They are FAR more accurate than you need for proseal. I just mounted a piece of square bar stock on the balancer and used pennies in dixie bathroom cups to set the ratio. It worked great. If you can't find anyone that has one, you can buy one at a hobby shop. I'm not sure how much they cost, but it shouldn't be too much. Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)roxanne.llnl.gov (Matt G. Dralle 510-422-4896)
Date: Aug 04, 1996
Subject: Test Message, Ignore.
This is a test message. Please toss. Matt Dralle RV-List Admin. -- dralle(at)roxanne.llnl.gov 510-422-4896 Voice 510-422-2425 FAX ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 04, 1996
From: barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart)
Subject: CS 1900 Firewall Sealant
A recent issue of Light Plane Maintenance discussed a couple of sealants. One was good ol' Proseal. The other was CS 1900 Firewall Sealant. The difference between Firewall Sealant and Proseal is that the Firewall sealant will withstand MUCH higher temperatures (flash temps of 2,000 degrees F). Since I was about to seal my governor cutout box to the firewall, I decided to try some. I was able to purchase a pint from Sealpack for $23. My biggest complaint is that the stuff is really hard to mix. The sealant has about the same consitency as tar (and just as black). The catalyst is LIQUID (and smells like rotting fish). Imagine trying to mix bubble gum and vegetable oil, and you'll get some idea of how difficult it is to mix this stuff. Plus, you mix it 2.5 parts catalyst (That's right: two and one half) to 100 parts sealant, by weight. This makes it exremely difficult to mix in small quantities. I mixed enough to stuff into the two holes in the lower corners of the firewall, and we'll see how it goes. (It takes about 3 days for it to cure.) I may go back to using proseal for the governor box. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart barnhart(at)a.crl.com rv-6 sn 23744 finishing kit on order fuselage out of the jig ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 04, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Location
>John A: > >What's an Oberg oil filter? > >Bill Boyd >contemplating engine overhaul and waiting on the finish kit - RV-6A. Bill, Oberg, now known as ADC, is one "after market" oil filter featuring cleanable, reuseable screens. Another such filter is the Capehart filter, which uses a screen with the addition of very powerful, "rare earth" magnets which capture some of the very fine ferrous particles not captured by the filter media. Both the ADC and Caphart fliters are very expensive. The August 1996 issue of Aviation Consumer has an article on these two filter methods in addition to the Airwolf system, which is a remote unit that utilizes a conventional paper filter element. The article summarizes test done to compare these filters with the plain, 'ol paper filter elements. Interesting article. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 04, 1996
From: finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen )
Subject: RV3 Vert Stab mounting question
Per the drawings it looks like one would rivit the vert stab to buldkhead 311, in addition to bolting it (lower hinge brackets). Is that really right? If one wanted to remove the vert stab one would have to drill out the rivets. I was my impression that tail and wings are supposed to be removable. Finn (finished riviting all tail skins!) finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 04, 1996
From: "J.Bennick" <1gatto(at)cdmnet.com>
Subject: Re: Nut for Low Fuel Warning Switch
> >I am installing the low fuel level warning switch sold by Aircraft >Spruce and manufactured by The Madison Co. The switch comes with a >threaded body, but no nut to screw onto the body. I have tried all of >the local hardware stores, but have been unable to find a match. >Aircraft Spruce says they don't sell a nut to go with the switch and >calls to The Madison Co. have gone unanswered. What have the rest of >you done when installing this switch? > >Jerald Hall >RV-6A, finishing the wings Jerald, The Madison switches have a tapered pipe thread "1/2 NPT". I mounted mine using aluminum welding flanges (Aircraft Spruce part # AN867-4, page 123). The flanges require some modification as they are made for welding. They are heavy and have a lip around their small flange. I took mine into work and had the machine shop cut the lip flush and reduce the diameter of the hub so that the flange would be wide enough to be drilled for 4 #8 mounting screws. The flange then looks similar to the fuel tank drain valve flange only larger. The switches are mounted in my rear baffles through holes large enough to accept the hubs. This was necessary because the left tank has a flop-tube, requiring me to put the switch in the second bay and I wanted to be able to access the switch. I would recommend using a doubler inside the baffle. The switch in the second bay mounts below the fuel gauge sending unit without interference. If you try to mount the flanges differently, remember that the switches must screw in from the hub side because of the tapered thread. Any machine shop with a lathe should be able to turn the flanges down for you. If a ready made flange exists for this installation, I haven't been able to find it. I hope this helps. If you want more information, feel free to contact me but due to logistics, I may be a little slow to respond. ---------------------------------------------- Chris Brooks, RV-6, S/N 22935 finishing wings (still) 1gatto(at)cdmnet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steven Spruell <sspruell(at)ghgcorp.com>
Subject: Oil Canning reply from Vans
Date: Aug 04, 1996
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB8241.E65D9B40 I ended up with a slight bit of oil canning on the left side of my = rudder, 2nd bay from the bottom. I had the PP skins (spar only, of = course), and I clecoed every hole when drilling, just like in George & = Becky's video. The only thing I'm worried about is some moderate = flutter when I approach transonic speeds :-). Steven Spruell sspruell(at)ghgcorp.com League City, TX RV-6A #24721 Empennage --------- From: aol.com!Bcg007(at)matronics.com[SMTP:aol.com!Bcg007(at)matronics.com] Sent: Friday, August 02, 1996 11:11 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Canning reply from VansRon Right--I just finished it. But if the skin/spar drilling leaves any = slack, oil canning is likely. The PP skins are great, but leave little = latitude for pulling skins tight before drilling to the spar or using a drill/cleco sequence that "irons out" potential slack..... Jon ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB8241.E65D9B40 eJ8+IgMBAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ACQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAEkAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20AU01UUABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20A AAAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABYAAABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20A AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAYAAAAJ3J2LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbScAAgEL MAEAAAAbAAAAU01UUDpSVi1MSVNUQE1BVFJPTklDUy5DT00AAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYP AQAAAAQAAAAAAAADNDcBCIAHABgAAABJUE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90ZQAxCAEEgAEAKQAA AFJFOiBSVi1MaXN0OiBPaWwgQ2FubmluZyByZXBseSBmcm9tIFZhbnMAlg0BBYADAA4AAADMBwgA BAAUAA0AKAAAACgBASCAAwAOAAAAzAcIAAQAFAAJAAwAAAAIAQEJgAEAIQAAADUxRTIzOEREMkZF RUNGMTFCRTJGNDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwAB4HAQOQBgA4BQAAEgAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkA AAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AKDodVZrgrsBHgBwAAEAAAApAAAAUkU6IFJWLUxpc3Q6IE9pbCBDYW5u aW5nIHJlcGx5IGZyb20gVmFucwAAAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABu4JrVm7dOOJS7i8Rz74vREVTVAAA AAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAFQAAAHNzcHJ1ZWxsQGdoZ2NvcnAuY29tAAAA AAMABhD+lnarAwAHEMICAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABJRU5ERURVUFdJVEhBU0xJR0hUQklUT0ZPSUxD QU5OSU5HT05USEVMRUZUU0lERU9GTVlSVURERVIsMk5EQkFZRlJPTVRIRUJPVFRPTUlIQURUSEVQ UFNLSU5TKFNQQVJPTkxZAAAAAAIBCRABAAAApwMAAKMDAAA1BgAATFpGdYW5Vef/AAoBDwIVAqgF 6wKDAFAC8gkCAGNoCsBzZXQyNwYABsMCgzIDxQIAcHJCcRHic3RlbQKDM3cC5AcTAoB9CoAIzwnZ O/EWDzI1NQKACoENsQtg4G5nMTAzFFALAwzQeDE0NA3wC1UUUQvyYzEAQCBJIAnwDbBkIAh1cCAD 8HRoIGFAIHNsaWdoBUBisRwgIG9mHSADEWMAcB8DABkQHSADoBwwZSBsGw4hHHBpDbAdIm15IIhy dWQEgSwgMhuQ/RzgYR9wA1IeQwbgAkADcDwuIBtREYAbwB5SUFDNHHBrC4AEIChzCrICIHxseR/w HTEFoAhwEbAp7x/wAHAbwBtgYx6QBaAbsWxldgSQH3BoBvAecHfrHmADoGQFEGwckBkQH/DManUT wB6AaWsecAuAKCBHZQWwZx5wJiCiQgWQa3knBCB2HvF6byGBVB5hI0IeQR3iSfonIMB3BbAIgRvA AaAIYL8FQAQAHHADcB5wBGNhE9A/IIAKQAJABJAl5BtgYXDtE1BvANAcQHQsEACAAiBUaWMccHAJ 4GQEIDrYLSkuCoUKhVMT0CVQ/QOgUxNQClAmcAqFBBAwlEpAHLBnBaFwLgWgbSEKhUxlYWcKUCBD ExwgI3FUWAqFUlYtQDZBICMyNAHAMbkKhUVtLpAdwDMwZS88xwr0HJAZ82ZpLRnzGdy5C8IxNgqg A2AT0GMFQL4tOjYKhzjrDDA5tkYDYX46Oy45tgyCHFAG8DJiIYBCY2cwMDdAAMALLeAuMnMyYltT TVTsUDo+7z/5XTrPO90GYH8CMD0PPhs8wB7wIGAf8EEmdTNAJwEwMh/wMTlkOTZIEDE6SHAiQE0z Qt873VRvRR8+G3J2Pi0ckBPAP8xI/0PudWLOajnxSx8+G1JlULA0cdZMTTFQsE8DEUMdtRYQewtQ IHVWAHEaPTm2CABu9wqPVW8vllIcojowG2Am43s34AMAcx5gG8AcICGBQu8rIh1AHlIigi8i8yZG HoF+YSVQBCAAcB9wHIAA0Gv+LFa1HWorUScyI2ApFSJX3wrAHnAJwSwgH/BiKyFc8+8nIQJAJcEL YHQcIB+gLEHzBbBWtXB1XJQihGKgHLP/DcAFsB5wXGchUB5DLnEjEt8FwCbwHeIcYCZDLyTDMPbk ZXEKUG5jHnAcMCwguCAiaUABBCArESJjoG850QIwBzFdlC5rIi88Sl9WlzY/V19YbRUxAHBAAAMA EBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcw4Ge7tmqCuwFAAAgw4Ge7tmqCuwEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAA ALR9 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB8241.E65D9B40-- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 04, 1996
From: "J.Bennick" <1gatto(at)cdmnet.com>
Subject: Re: Aileron question
>Hello to everyone in RV Land, >I have a quick question for anyone out there. What's the consensus about >putting silicone (electronics grade) in the ailerons between the stiffeners? > I don't see anything in either the Manual, Justice notes, or the the >archives. When I was biulding my ailerons I called Vans and asked about this.They told me it wasn't neccesary but it couldn't hurt anything and might be a good idea as long as I ensured a drain path.I put a light coating of oil on two 3/32" welding rods and layed them end to end in the trailing edge.After siliconeing and riveting the ailerons I let the silicone set up a little and then pulled the rods out from the ends. ---------------------------------------------- Chris Brooks, RV-6, S/N 22935 finishing wings (still) 1gatto(at)cdmnet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 04, 1996
From: HBenjamin(at)gnn.com (Harold Benjamin)
Subject: McCauley Prop
Hi folks, I've got a question for any prop wizards out there. My neighbor gave me an old prop he found while cleaning out a house after a real estate deal. It's a fixed pitch metal prop. Engraving on it reads; McCauley, Kliptip, Met-L-Prop, Design #1A105, Scm 7154, TC.918, P.C.3, Serial # G12769. Condition looks fair. Any idea what it's from? Good for anything? Trade in? Wall clock? Anchor? Thanks in advance for any input you might have. Hal Benjamin Tallahassee, FL RV-4 Building fuel tank ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com
Date: Aug 04, 1996
Subject: RV-3 Value
I'm considering "trading" my Cherokee 140 for a taildragger for a new challenge and to build some tailwheel time while I'm working on my RV-8. Can anyone tell me the approximate value of an average RV-3? I realize things can vary considerably with equipment and quality of workmanship, etc.... but just a ballpark. Thanks! Rod Woodard RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com RV-8, #80033 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 05, 1996
Subject: Re: Engine/Prop Controls
<< Don't know if you can fit or not, but the sub-panel you mention need only be a few inches wide, and you can recess it a bit, say an inch, and that will give you more room. I removed my center console altogether, since I am changing to electric elevator trim and flaps. >> That center section is structural. It helps support the upper half of the fuselage. I have seen several RV-6's built like this but I have heard (or read) Van say that this is not a good practice. Food for thought. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 05, 1996
Subject: Re: Lyc 0-320 150 to 160
I had Penn Yan Aero do the conversion for me. Although they do have the STC for the conversion I did mine outside the STC. They replaced the pistons, rings, pins, valve guides and seats. I also had the cylinders reworked. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 05, 1996
Subject: Re: McCauley Prop
<< McCauley, Kliptip, Met-L-Prop, Design #1A105, Scm 7154, TC.918, P.C.3, Serial # G12769. Condition looks fair. Any idea what it's from? Good for anything? Trade in? Wall clock? Anchor? >> 71" diameter X 54" pitch would suggest to me that it is probably from a Cessna 152 with an O-235 engine. I would vote for wall clock! Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov>
Subject: Fuel gauges, etc.
Date: Aug 05, 1996
I certainly agree with the "rinky dink" fuel guage problem. Stewart warner makes a complete line of reasonably priced, high quality automotive fuel guages and senders. Many good auto suppliers carry them. Pick a set you like, spend 5 minutes calibrating them and you can have real guages that actually work for a very reasonable price. The key is that they do have to be calibrated to the installation. My experience is they're much better than the products used in most GA aircraft. Mitch Robbins ---------- From: owner-rv-list[SMTP:owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 1996 5:50 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel gauges, etc. Bob Skinner wrote: > > >Rick; If I were doing it again, I wouldn't want to mess with the rinky dink > >fuel gauges that are so grossly inaccurate as to make them virtually > >decorations on the instrument panel. Get a device such as Matts to start > >with. The totalizer concept is vastly preferable in my opinion. I've got > >the standard Vans fuel gauges, and I calibrated them with the a/c in level > >flight att. Early in the time, I had an occasion to fly it down on fuel > >over about 3 flights. The left tank was indicating just below 1/2 when I > >was preparing to land. At fill up, the left tank took 18.5 gals to fill!! > >The clock is the only way to go with those kind of gauges. > >If Matts device isn't sat. for FAA reqmts, then put in one gauge with a > >selector switch for FAA, then have Matts device to use. > >Just my opinion. I'll bet there are some differing ones out there. > >John D > >John Darby RV6 N61764 flying > >johnd@our-town.com > > Rick, John is right. I look at the fuel gauges as satisfying a legal > requirement. Perhaps one of the programable fuel gauges (E.I.?) or Vision > Micro would be an answer. I'm considering putting one gauge with a left > right switch on my nest RV. I think a fuel totalizer/fuel flow like Matt > offers, would be a geat idea. I use a stop watch (although my bladder > generally tells me when three hours are up) and also have a calibrated dip > tube for probing the tanks. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net Thanks Bob. Would you suggest going to a reasonably cheap gauge if the intent is to use a system like Matt's as the primary? Why does the FAA not accept a system like Matt's as enough?? Thanks again Rick ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov>
Subject: Lyc 0-320 150 to 160
Date: Aug 05, 1996
STC (supplemental type certificate) is an optional change (supplement) to the aircraft certification document (type certificate). A STC must reference an existing type certificate which is an airframe document. It applies only to type certified airplanes. Engines and appliances (airframe accessories) do not have type certificates, thus, STCs don't apply to them. STC'd generally means higher $$$ and doesn't mean higher quality. Don't let anyone sell you on "STC" for anything on your homebuilt! This doesn't mean you can't use parts developed for a STC on a homebuilt. The primary difference is the piston, some high and low compression O-320s use the same cylinder assemblies and rings depending on barrel material. However, there are multiple combinations of part numbers for converting depending on your exact engine series and serial number. Get a copy of lycoming service instruction 1037K. It lists the "approved" combinations for each engine. It's available from lycoming or email your fax number to me off list and I'll fax it to you. Mitch Robbins ---------- From: owner-rv-list[SMTP:owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com] Sent: Saturday, August 03, 1996 4:33 AM Subject: RV-List: Lyc 0-320 150 to 160 RV>I have an 0-320-E2A. what is required to convert it to a 160 hp model. I RV>know that I do not need an STC but how do I find out what is involved in the RV>conversion. Some have said it is just the pistons? I plan to buy all new cyl RV>anyway so this would not be a problem. I called Lyc and they were no help. I believe it might even just be the rings and not the whole cylinder. I had the conversion done on my Cherokee 140 engine about 3 years ago. If I remember right, the STC was purchased from RAM. I don't know if this was the STC to put the 160 hp in a Cherokee or to convert the engine. All the paperwork is in the airplane at the hangar. I'll be out there tomorrow and will get the specific info. for you if you're interested. Could you please send me your name and e-mail address via private e-mail. My e-mail reader does not display the sender's true name or e-mail address. More tomorrow... Rod Woodard RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com Loveland, Colorado RV-8, #80033 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 1996
From: dougm@physio-control.com (Doug Medema)
Subject: Re: Engine/Prop Controls
Gary wrote: > > That center section is structural. It helps support the upper half of the > fuselage. I have seen several RV-6's built like this but I have heard (or > read) Van say that this is not a good practice. > > Food for thought. > > Gary Corde > RV-6 N211GC > I'm 6'6" with long legs (38" inseam when I can get them) and one of the major problems fitting me in an RV is the center console gets in the way. I have talked to both Van and Art Chard about this and the center console is non-structural and can be removed if so desired. I talked to Van about this again in July at Arlington and he suggested this plus several other mods to make the plane a little more accomodating for me. Doug Medema RV-6A in progress but basically on hold for summer projects. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Aug 05, 1996
Subject: Re: Dropped from RV List?
>-------------- >Matt, > >Went away to OSH for a few days... No RV list messages since July 30th, am I >still on the list? > >Best, >Jon Ross >-------------- Hi Jon, Nope. I just checked and you're not on the list. I have a new system that aggressivly keeps the list running smoothly by removing addresses that cause bounces. Since your address is from AOL I would guess your account was reporting "mail box full" and was removed. Just resubscribe. How was OSH? Matt Dralle RV-List Admin. -- ################################ +----------------------+ ##### ######## +--------------------------+ | ######## ############ | Matt G. Dralle | | #### #### #### #### #### | Matronics | | #### #### #### #### #### + | P.O. Box 347 | | #### #### #### #### #### | | Livermore, CA 94551 | | #### ##### #### #### | | 1+ 510-606-1001 Voice | + # # ## ##### ### ## # # # ### ## | | 1+ 510-606-6281 FAX | ## ## # # # # # # # ## # # # ## | | dralle(at)matronics.com | # # # #### # ### # # # ## # # ## | +--------------------------+ # # # # # # # ## # # # ### ## +-----------------------+ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 1996
From: csanchez(at)world.std.com (Cheryl Sanchez)
Subject: Re: RV3 Vert Stab mounting question
> >Per the drawings it looks like one would rivit the vert stab to >buldkhead 311, in addition to bolting it (lower hinge brackets). Is >that really right? If one wanted to remove the vert stab one would >have to drill out the rivets. I was my impression that tail and wings >are supposed to be removable. > >Finn (finished riviting all tail skins!) >finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com > No, the vertical stabilizer is just bolted on. I don't have the drawing in front of me now, but I have spent endless hours studying it. At the bottom I recall it is drilled and bolted in assembly with the landing gear weldment. At the top it is bolted into a piece of angle which is bolted to the fuselage longerons. In any case, I don't build any part until I completely understand how it relates to the other pieces around it. This way I am a lot less likely to do something stupid. Cheryl Sanchez csanchez(at)world.std.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 1996
From: "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Quickbuild Kit (FYI Chatter)
Listers, as promised here's a brief on the Quickbuild Kit: Quickbuild Kit #60010 arrived safely in the garage on August 4th, after an 1100 plus mile journey starting August 2nd from Van's Aircraft, via rented moving truck. The trip turned into a sightseeing trip as well for a relative visiting from overseas. The entire staff at Van's was very competent and courteous (thanks Van's!). They did a fantastic job loading the kit, and readily answered to any questions or concerns. It was great being able to pick my own components off the shelf . Fellow builder Eric Henson came by to have a look at the kit, and we both agreed that overall the build quality appears excellent - surpassing the example seen at Sun'n'Fun, and far better than I could hope to accomplish. My singular gripe is the elevators. I did not inspect them at pickup since they were pre-wrapped, and the workmanship of the wings and fuselage gave me confidence that they were of equal quality. Wrong...I will get them replaced or rework them to match the rest of the airframe. To give you an idea of just how much work is already done, the entire construction manual is only 48 pages long, and a substantial portion of those pages concern none-assembly items (i.e. tools, techniques, painting, test flying, etc.). I'm looking forward to finally participating as a builder here, and using all the information I've collected off the list and from the fellow builders I've met. Regards, Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com) Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 1996
From: "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Engine/Prop Controls and Ergonomics
>leg area. I am tall, so my sliding canopy is installed in the modified (tall >pilot) postion and I have 41" vertically from seat pan to canopy glass. > >TTFN >G. VanRemortel >Vanremog(at)aol.com > > Could you elaborate on the "modified position" of the sliding canopy? I am dropping the seat pan 1", but am still concerned about getting the 41+ inches I need. Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com) Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 1996
From: "Richard E Steffens" <resteffe(at)dpcmail.dukepower.com>
Subject: Fuel gauges, etc.
Mitch, how do you calibrate the SW gages? I have the senders from Van installed in my tanks and set so that at the full range of travel the floats don't quite touch the top or bottom of the tank skins. Ohm meter readings are about 30 ohms full and 320 ohms empty. What else is there to do? I haven't bought gages yet because the ones Van's sell don't look too good and I'm looking for something better. Dick Steffens RV-6 finishing canopy. resteffe(at)dpcmail.dukepower.com ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel gauges, etc. Date: 8/5/96 11:36 AM I certainly agree with the "rinky dink" fuel guage problem. Stewart warner makes a complete line of reasonably priced, high quality automotive fuel guages and senders. Many good auto suppliers carry them. Pick a set you like, spend 5 minutes calibrating them and you can have real guages that actually work for a very reasonable price. The key is that they do have to be calibrated to the installation. My experience is they're much better than the products used in most GA aircraft. Mitch Robbins ---------- From: owner-rv-list[SMTP:owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 1996 5:50 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel gauges, etc. Bob Skinner wrote: > > >Rick; If I were doing it again, I wouldn't want to mess with the rinky dink > >fuel gauges that are so grossly inaccurate as to make them virtually > >decorations on the instrument panel. Get a device such as Matts to start > >with. The totalizer concept is vastly preferable in my opinion. I've got > >the standard Vans fuel gauges, and I calibrated them with the a/c in level > >flight att. Early in the time, I had an occasion to fly it down on fuel > >over about 3 flights. The left tank was indicating just below 1/2 when I > >was preparing to land. At fill up, the left tank took 18.5 gals to fill!! > >The clock is the only way to go with those kind of gauges. > >If Matts device isn't sat. for FAA reqmts, then put in one gauge with a > >selector switch for FAA, then have Matts device to use. > >Just my opinion. I'll bet there are some differing ones out there. > >John D > >John Darby RV6 N61764 flying > >johnd@our-town.com > > Rick, John is right. I look at the fuel gauges as satisfying a legal > requirement. Perhaps one of the programable fuel gauges (E.I.?) or Vision > Micro would be an answer. I'm considering putting one gauge with a left > right switch on my nest RV. I think a fuel totalizer/fuel flow like Matt > offers, would be a geat idea. I use a stop watch (although my bladder > generally tells me when three hours are up) and also have a calibrated dip > tube for probing the tanks. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net Thanks Bob. Would you suggest going to a reasonably cheap gauge if the intent is to use a system like Matt's as the primary? Why does the FAA not accept a system like Matt's as enough?? Thanks again Rick ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com>
Subject: Oshkosh report
Date: Aug 05, 1996
Well, just got in early this morning from a quick weekend trip to Oshkosh and thought I'd share a few of the highpoints; Van's tent had the quickbuild kit out front with one wing in place. Looks like real good quality work but QB builders (like me, soon) shouldn't feel too bad: there is still a LOT of work to do! It was nice since I just got my HS out of the jig a few days ago and I could see how it fits onto the fuselage. It was great seeing RV's taking off and landing all the time. Between the demo planes and all the fly-ins, you could always find an RV leaping into the sky. There were about four or five rows of RV's there, Jon was there with his RV-4 talking to people, and the ethanol squadron of RV-3's flew Sunday. NRI (this sounds right, at least) had there Subaru firewall-forward package on an RV-6 that flew in from Seattle, I believe. They fired it up (without the prop on) and rev'ed it up a few times. This package is about $18-19K and includes: the 9 engine instruments for your cockpit, exhaust system, new cowling, and a "bolt it to the firewall" engine that is complete and has already been run as a unit on the dyno for an hour or two. TBO isn't known yet but they 'suspect' 1200 hours at which point they ship you a new engine core and you end up with a new engine for around $4500. Every year you take compression checks, oil samples, and send in a computer chip from the engine after running a set flight plan they give you. They compare the stats from this chip with what they took the previous time to look for problems or trends. It also comes with a prop and a 'CAP' system: Cockpit Adjustable Propeller. It's not constant speed but a simpler system that lets you adjust the pitch from the cockpit. Sounds like more of a pilot load, but don't know enough about it. The NRI guy also mentioned that not all engines they retrofit are new. It also sounded like only the 160 would be available in the near future, the 180 and 200 hp(turbo) would be later. It comes with a firewall blanket and the guy said it is so quiet that they take their headsets off during cross countries with no problems. We'll see. Two days just isn't enough. Q / cut here -------------O-\------------------------------------------------------- Mitchell Faatz mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com Software Engineering Manager Sagent Technology, Inc. (415) 614-6826 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 05, 1996
Subject: Re: Engine/Prop Controls
<< I'm 6'6" with long legs (38" inseam when I can get them) and one of the major problems fitting me in an RV is the center console gets in the way. I have talked to both Van and Art Chard about this and the center console is non-structural and can be removed if so desired. >> Opps, guess my info. was old. Glad to hear about the change. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 1996
From: RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric)
Subject: Re: RV3 Vert Stab mounting que
The below statement should be added to the golden rules of RV-ators, maybe blown up, framed and displayed between the RV-plans and the lifesize Patty Wagstaff poster. Well said Cheryl. Eric Henson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reply Seperator <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, >>In any case, I don't build any part until I completely understand how it relates to the other pieces around it. This way I am a lot less likely to do something stupid.<< Cheryl Sanchez csanchez(at)world.std.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 1996
From: Gary Standley <Gary_Standley(at)ccm.co.intel.com>
Subject: RV3 Vert Stab mounting question
Text item: I THINK YOU MEAN IN ASSEMBLY WITH THE TAILWHEEL WELDMENT. > >Per the drawings it looks like one would rivit the vert stab to >buldkhead 311, in addition to bolting it (lower hinge brackets). Is >that really right? If one wanted to remove the vert stab one would >have to drill out the rivets. I was my impression that tail and wings >are supposed to be removable. > >Finn (finished riviting all tail skins!) >finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com > No, the vertical stabilizer is just bolted on. I don't have the drawing in front of me now, but I have spent endless hours studying it. At the bottom I recall it is drilled and bolted in assembly with the landing gear weldment. At the top it is bolted into a piece of angle which is bolted to the fuselage longerons. In any case, I don't build any part until I completely understand how it relates to the other pieces around it. This way I am a lot less likely to do something stupid. Cheryl Sanchez csanchez(at)world.std.com Text item: External Message Header The following mail header is for administrative use and may be ignored unless there are problems. ***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***. Subject: Re: RV-List: RV3 Vert Stab mounting question From: world.std.com!csanchez(at)matronics.com (Cheryl Sanchez) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:51:16 -0400 intel.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA10865 for Date: Aug 05, 1996
From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)cris.com>
Subject: Landing lights
Survey time! I'm finally working on my wings. Which is the better landing/taxi light for an RV6A in your humble opinions? Duckworks, Olds, or BAC... All opinions welcome, especially those of you who have flown with one. Thanks in advance. Ed Cole emcole(at)concentric.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Engine/Prop Controls
>I'm 6'6" with long legs (38" inseam when I can get them) and one of the >major problems fitting me in an RV is the center console gets in the way. >I have talked to both Van and Art Chard about this and the center >console is non-structural and can be removed if so desired. > >I talked to Van about this again in July at Arlington and he suggested >this plus several other mods to make the plane a little more accomodating >for me. > >Doug Medema >RV-6A in progress but basically on hold for summer projects. Doug, I had the same problem. I'm 6' 3 1/2" with a 36" inseam. I move the verticle piece that mounts the throttle, etc. forward and attached it to the sub panel. I made a longer fuel selector mount plate, as well. This moves the throttle farther forward which helps to keep you from snagging your right pant leg on the throttle. I get along OK but the manual trim does hit me in the leg a little. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 1996
From: Rick Osgood <rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us>
Subject: Re: Fuel gauges, etc.
Robbins Mitch wrote: > > I certainly agree with the "rinky dink" fuel guage problem. Stewart > warner makes a complete line of reasonably priced, high quality > automotive fuel guages and senders. Many good auto suppliers carry them. > Pick a set you like, spend 5 minutes calibrating them and you can have > real guages that actually work for a very reasonable price. The key is > that they do have to be calibrated to the installation. My experience is > they're much better than the products used in most GA aircraft. > > Mitch Robbins > > ---------- > From: owner-rv-list[SMTP:owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 01, 1996 5:50 PM > To: rv-list > Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel gauges, etc. > > Bob Skinner wrote: > > > > >Rick; If I were doing it again, I wouldn't want to mess with the > rinky > dink > > >fuel gauges that are so grossly inaccurate as to make them virtually > > >decorations on the instrument panel. Get a device such as Matts to > start > > >with. The totalizer concept is vastly preferable in my opinion. I've > got > > >the standard Vans fuel gauges, and I calibrated them with the a/c in > level > > >flight att. Early in the time, I had an occasion to fly it down on > fuel > > >over about 3 flights. The left tank was indicating just below 1/2 > when I > > >was preparing to land. At fill up, the left tank took 18.5 gals to > fill!! > > >The clock is the only way to go with those kind of gauges. > > >If Matts device isn't sat. for FAA reqmts, then put in one gauge with > a > > >selector switch for FAA, then have Matts device to use. > > >Just my opinion. I'll bet there are some differing ones out there. > > >John D > > >John Darby RV6 N61764 flying > > >johnd@our-town.com > > > > Rick, John is right. I look at the fuel gauges as satisfying a legal > > requirement. Perhaps one of the programable fuel gauges (E.I.?) or > Vision > > Micro would be an answer. I'm considering putting one gauge with a > left > > right switch on my nest RV. I think a fuel totalizer/fuel flow like > Matt > > offers, would be a geat idea. I use a stop watch (although my bladder > > generally tells me when three hours are up) and also have a calibrated > dip > > tube for probing the tanks. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net > > Thanks Bob. Would you suggest going to a reasonably cheap gauge if the > intent is to use a system like Matt's as the primary? Why does the FAA > not accept a system like Matt's as enough?? > > Thanks again > Rick Thanks for the reply Mitch... Are you saying I should find automotive gauges and then use a system like Matt's as primary. Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 1996
From: willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills)
Subject: tail pos light wiring
I'm a new subscriber to the list. I am building an RV-4 ser #4083. Currently finishing up the empennage and waiting for my wing kit to arrive. I have just installed a tail position light in the rudder bottom tip and was wondering if there are any suggestions/opinions as to the best routing for the wiring out of the rudder and through the vert stab spar. I cant get a clear picture from the preview plans in the manual as to whether or not there are potential interference problems with the elevator control horns, pushrod, tailwheel weldment, etc... Thanks, Mike Wills willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 1996
From: jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino)
Subject: RV-8 Wing ordered & RVaitor?
First, things are going well on my tail for my RV-8 so I did it... I ordered my wing kit today. Also, when is the next rvaitor due out? Jim Cimino RV-8 sn#80039 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov>
Subject: Fuel gauges, etc.
Date: Aug 05, 1996
I don't know if Van's is still selling the same sender as he was 10 years ago. That one was a "generic" stewart warner. At that time, Van's had them back ordered and I bought the same sender at an auto parts store. There are many different SW gages that will work with it. Sorry, I trashed my SW catalog about 9 years ago. You've already done the hard part. Make sure the float travels freely, with full travel through the height of the tank. You will have to bend, and will probably have to shorten, the arm on the sender. If your going to error, do it so the gauge reads empty when there is still some fuel in the tank. Some gauges have a zero adjust screw. Be sure to hook up the gauge and check everything before you seal the sender in the tank Fuel the airplane incrementally and check the marks on the gauge vs how much fuel is in the tank. During your flight test period check the same in a flight attitude or prop the tail up and check it on the ground. The D shape of the tank makes the gauge reading slightly nonlinear. The top will burn off quickly, the midrange will burn forever, and the bottom will burn quickly when referenced on the gauge. One could build a simple op amp circuit for about 50 cents to fix the non linearity or to match the sender to a non-compatible gauge. I followed KISS, used a compatible gauge, and bent the arm on the sender to provide the readings I wanted. Good Luck! ---------- From: owner-rv-list[SMTP:owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com] Sent: Monday, August 05, 1996 5:00 PM Subject: Re[2]: RV-List: Fuel gauges, etc. Mitch, how do you calibrate the SW gages? I have the senders from Van installed in my tanks and set so that at the full range of travel the floats don't quite touch the top or bottom of the tank skins. Ohm meter readings are about 30 ohms full and 320 ohms empty. What else is there to do? I haven't bought gages yet because the ones Van's sell don't look too good and I'm looking for something better. Dick Steffens RV-6 finishing canopy. resteffe(at)dpcmail.dukepower.com ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel gauges, etc. Date: 8/5/96 11:36 AM I certainly agree with the "rinky dink" fuel gauge problem. Stewart warner makes a complete line of reasonably priced, high quality automotive fuel guages and senders. Many good auto suppliers carry them. Pick a set you like, spend 5 minutes calibrating them and you can have real guages that actually work for a very reasonable price. The key is that they do have to be calibrated to the installation. My experience is they're much better than the products used in most GA aircraft. Mitch Robbins ---------- From: owner-rv-list[SMTP:owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 1996 5:50 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel gauges, etc. Bob Skinner wrote: > > >Rick; If I were doing it again, I wouldn't want to mess with the rinky dink > >fuel gauges that are so grossly inaccurate as to make them virtually > >decorations on the instrument panel. Get a device such as Matts to start > >with. The totalizer concept is vastly preferable in my opinion. I've got > >the standard Vans fuel gauges, and I calibrated them with the a/c in level > >flight att. Early in the time, I had an occasion to fly it down on fuel > >over about 3 flights. The left tank was indicating just below 1/2 when I > >was preparing to land. At fill up, the left tank took 18.5 gals to fill!! > >The clock is the only way to go with those kind of gauges. > >If Matts device isn't sat. for FAA reqmts, then put in one gauge with a > >selector switch for FAA, then have Matts device to use. > >Just my opinion. I'll bet there are some differing ones out there. > >John D > >John Darby RV6 N61764 flying > >johnd@our-town.com > > Rick, John is right. I look at the fuel gauges as satisfying a legal > requirement. Perhaps one of the programable fuel gauges (E.I.?) or Vision > Micro would be an answer. I'm considering putting one gauge with a left > right switch on my nest RV. I think a fuel totalizer/fuel flow like Matt > offers, would be a geat idea. I use a stop watch (although my bladder > generally tells me when three hours are up) and also have a calibrated dip > tube for probing the tanks. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net Thanks Bob. Would you suggest going to a reasonably cheap gauge if the intent is to use a system like Matt's as the primary? Why does the FAA not accept a system like Matt's as enough?? Thanks again Rick ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 1996
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: Re: Landing lights
You wrote: > >Survey time! >I'm finally working on my wings. >Which is the better landing/taxi light for an RV6A in your humble >opinions? >Duckworks, Olds, or BAC... >All opinions welcome, especially those of you who have flown with one. >Thanks in advance. >Ed Cole >emcole(at)concentric.net > Hi Ed, I suspect it is very difficult for someone to say which is best, since most people have only tried one ('course you could ask some of those who have built 5 or 6!). I just got back from Oshkosh (I think there were 70+ RV's there this year) and saw a lot of the Duckworks lights. I have them myself, but they aren't installed yet. Workmanship and instructions look pretty good so far. I met Don "The Duck" Wentz at the show ahd he seems like a pretty straight shooter. I think if you bought them, inspected but didn't 'work' anything, you could return them for a refund. I can't say a word good or bad about the other two, since I am totally ignorant about them. Does this help? Best regards, Bill Costello -- Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246 Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 1996
From: Brian Yablon <brian(at)lanart.com>
Subject: OSH/Van's builder's banquet...
Just got back from OSH, after having a fantastic time. I went out there on Wednesday, camped at Camp Scholler, and returned this morning. Even after spending 4 whole days, I still did not get to take in everything I wanted to. Guess I'll have to head back next year :-) There were some beautiful RVs on the flight line, most of which I photographed for paint, panel and detail ideas. I enjoyed meeting and talking to many builders, like Steve Barnard, Don Wentz, Bill Costello, Andy Gold, Brian Cooper, Cecil Hatfield and Greg Young. Yesterday I hung out with Greg Bordelon and Rob Lee, who flew Rob's dark green and white "6A" up from Houston. Rob has a honey of an airplane! Van's builders' banquet was last night. Thanks to Cecil Hatfield, the rv-listers had a table to ourselves, complete with place cards! It was great to meet so many fellow listers, and finally pin some faces to the names. I walked around our table and took "mug shots" of everyone, which I intend to scan and send to John Hovan for the web page. The evening program was great. Van and Bill Benedict introduced all the new faces at Van's and talked about some new areas of development. I will summarize briefly some of the points made at the banquet and at the RV-6 forum I attended on Saturday: It seems that the RV-8 is THE focus for Van's R&D efforts right now. Van said to expect a really nice RV-8 wing kit that will go together smoothly and quickly. He also spoke about the pre-punched RV-8 fuse kit which is well into development. We were told that RV-6/A wing kits are now prepunched, but not to expect a prepunched RV-6/A fuse kit until work on the RV-8 kit is completed. RV-8 quickbuild kits are something that will be considered after the entire RV-8 kit development is complete. Bill Benedict said that since the RV-8 was introduced, RV-4 starts have decreased from 175/yr to 125/yr. At the same time, Van's has sold 134 RV-8 kits so far this year. So the RV-4 kits are hardly going away. When asked about a 4-place RV, Van said he did a preliminary design of one, but there are no company resources to make it a reality, so the project is currently on the shelf. Maybe some day... At the forum, several questions were asked, and, inevitably, his "endorsement" of the Powersport Mazda conversion that was reported in Kitplanes (?) came up. Van said that although he thinks the Powersport folks are doing a thorough job in engineering the conversion, only time will tell if the conversion proves itself as reliable as an aricraft engine. Van cautioned that in the end, it's your "pink little fanny" riding behind the engine, and you need to ask yourself whether you want a Lycoming up front, with thousands of flying examples, and millions of proven reliable running hours; or if you feel comfortable enough with test data to hang a conversion on your firewall. Some other highlights from last night were hearing from Carl Hay (featured in Sport Aviation a few months ago) who lost the use of his legs in a T-33 crash some years back, and in spite of his hardship, managed to put together a beautiful RV-6, and fly it to Oshkosh. I spoke to Carl quite a bit on the flight line, and he is the nicest guy, in addition to being an exemplar of courage and determination. I intend to blow up a picture I took of him and his "6", and hang it in my shop for inspiration. We also heard from Jon Johanson, who completed his second flight to OSH from Australia in his RV-4, this time travelling west. He intends to complete his second circumnavigation of the globe following the convention. His achievements earned him a standing ovation from the crowd. The evening ended out with a door prize raffle of lots of good stuff from various RV vendors. We all had a great time, and I look forward to doing it again next year... Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com RV-6A #24751 Skinning the HS... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 1996
From: gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander)
Subject: Fuel gauges, etc.
Dick, ... check the archives ... :^) Calibrate by ohms .... Gil Alexander *** repost of 5-10-94 postiung *** xxxxxx, Don't use a gage for calibration, the scale and pointer just don't have a good enough resolution. Do calibrate the senders before tank close-up ..... beg, borrow or steal a good digital meter, and adjust the senders to 33 ohms and 240 ohms at each end of the scale. Then your senders should work with any accurate, compatible meter. keep on gaging ..... Gil Alexander *** end old posting *** --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Mitch, how do you calibrate the SW gages? I have the senders from Van > installed in my tanks and set so that at the full range of travel the > floats don't quite touch the top or bottom of the tank skins. Ohm > meter readings are about 30 ohms full and 320 ohms empty. What else is > there to do? I haven't bought gages yet because the ones Van's sell > don't look too good and I'm looking for something better. > > Dick Steffens RV-6 finishing canopy. > resteffe(at)dpcmail.dukepower.com > > >______________________________ Reply Separator >_________________________________ >Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel gauges, etc. >Author: rv-list(at)matronics.com at INTERNET >Date: 8/5/96 11:36 AM > > > > >I certainly agree with the "rinky dink" fuel guage problem. Stewart >warner makes a complete line of reasonably priced, high quality >automotive fuel guages and senders. Many good auto suppliers carry them. > Pick a set you like, spend 5 minutes calibrating them and you can have >real guages that actually work for a very reasonable price. The key is >that they do have to be calibrated to the installation. My experience is >they're much better than the products used in most GA aircraft. > >Mitch Robbins > > ---------- >From: owner-rv-list[SMTP:owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com] >Sent: Thursday, August 01, 1996 5:50 PM >To: rv-list >Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel gauges, etc. > > >Bob Skinner wrote: >> >> >Rick; If I were doing it again, I wouldn't want to mess with the >rinky >dink >> >fuel gauges that are so grossly inaccurate as to make them virtually >> >decorations on the instrument panel. Get a device such as Matts to >start >> >with. The totalizer concept is vastly preferable in my opinion. I've >got >> >the standard Vans fuel gauges, and I calibrated them with the a/c in >level >> >flight att. Early in the time, I had an occasion to fly it down on >fuel >> >over about 3 flights. The left tank was indicating just below 1/2 >when I >> >was preparing to land. At fill up, the left tank took 18.5 gals to >fill!! >> >The clock is the only way to go with those kind of gauges. >> >If Matts device isn't sat. for FAA reqmts, then put in one gauge with >a >> >selector switch for FAA, then have Matts device to use. >> >Just my opinion. I'll bet there are some differing ones out there. >> >John D >> >John Darby RV6 N61764 flying >> >johnd@our-town.com >> >> Rick, John is right. I look at the fuel gauges as satisfying a legal >> requirement. Perhaps one of the programable fuel gauges (E.I.?) or >Vision >> Micro would be an answer. I'm considering putting one gauge with a >left >> right switch on my nest RV. I think a fuel totalizer/fuel flow like >Matt >> offers, would be a geat idea. I use a stop watch (although my bladder >> generally tells me when three hours are up) and also have a calibrated >dip >> tube for probing the tanks. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net > >Thanks Bob. Would you suggest going to a reasonably cheap gauge if the >intent is to use a system like Matt's as the primary? Why does the FAA >not accept a system like Matt's as enough?? > >Thanks again >Rick > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 1996
From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)cris.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel gauges, etc.
Rick Osgood wrote: > > Robbins Mitch wrote: > > > > I certainly agree with the "rinky dink" fuel guage problem. Stewart > > warner makes a complete line of reasonably priced, high quality > > automotive fuel guages and senders. Many good auto suppliers carry them. > > Pick a set you like, spend 5 minutes calibrating them and you can have > > real guages that actually work for a very reasonable price. The key is > > that they do have to be calibrated to the installation. My experience is > > they're much better than the products used in most GA aircraft. > > > > Mitch Robbins > > > > ---------- > > From: owner-rv-list[SMTP:owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com] > > Sent: Thursday, August 01, 1996 5:50 PM > > To: rv-list > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel gauges, etc. > > > > Bob Skinner wrote: > > > > > > >Rick; If I were doing it again, I wouldn't want to mess with the > > rinky > > dink > > > >fuel gauges that are so grossly inaccurate as to make them virtually > > > >decorations on the instrument panel. Get a device such as Matts to > > start > > > >with. The totalizer concept is vastly preferable in my opinion. I've > > got > > > >the standard Vans fuel gauges, and I calibrated them with the a/c in > > level > > > >flight att. Early in the time, I had an occasion to fly it down on > > fuel > > > >over about 3 flights. The left tank was indicating just below 1/2 > > when I > > > >was preparing to land. At fill up, the left tank took 18.5 gals to > > fill!! > > > >The clock is the only way to go with those kind of gauges. > > > >If Matts device isn't sat. for FAA reqmts, then put in one gauge with > > a > > > >selector switch for FAA, then have Matts device to use. > > > >Just my opinion. I'll bet there are some differing ones out there. > > > >John D > > > >John Darby RV6 N61764 flying > > > >johnd@our-town.com > > > > > > Rick, John is right. I look at the fuel gauges as satisfying a legal > > > requirement. Perhaps one of the programable fuel gauges (E.I.?) or > > Vision > > > Micro would be an answer. I'm considering putting one gauge with a > > left > > > right switch on my nest RV. I think a fuel totalizer/fuel flow like > > Matt > > > offers, would be a geat idea. I use a stop watch (although my bladder > > > generally tells me when three hours are up) and also have a calibrated > > dip > > > tube for probing the tanks. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net > > > > Thanks Bob. Would you suggest going to a reasonably cheap gauge if the > > intent is to use a system like Matt's as the primary? Why does the FAA > > not accept a system like Matt's as enough?? > > > > Thanks again > > Rick > > Thanks for the reply Mitch... Are you saying I should find automotive > gauges and then use a system like Matt's as primary. > > ThanksThere are high quality, matched sets of guages designed primarily for race/show cars available from Summit Racing.You can match the fuel guages along with oil press, oil temp, fuel press, etc. They have a nice catalog available for free. email me direct if you need the 800 number. Ed Cole emcole(at)concentric.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 1996
From: gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander)
Subject: Re: Lyc 0-320 150 to 160
Rod ... what model is (was) your yur Cherokee 140 engine?? ... thanks .... Gil Alexander PS you need the higher compression pistons as well. ... but some O-320 have a two piece front bearing, and some shops say this needs to be changed to the "old" style single-piece bearing (extensive case machining). This particular shop also modified O-320s to get 180 HP, which might have something to do with it .... :^) I'm just trying to get STC data to-gether before I upgrade my O-320-E2G (out of a Grumman) to 160 HP. >RV>I have an 0-320-E2A. what is required to convert it to a 160 hp model. I >RV>know that I do not need an STC but how do I find out what is involved in the >RV>conversion. Some have said it is just the pistons? I plan to buy all new cyl >RV>anyway so this would not be a problem. I called Lyc and they were no help. > >I believe it might even just be the rings and not the whole cylinder. I >had the conversion done on my Cherokee 140 engine about 3 years ago. If >I remember right, the STC was purchased from RAM. I don't know if this >was the STC to put the 160 hp in a Cherokee or to convert the engine. >All the paperwork is in the airplane at the hangar. I'll be out there >tomorrow and will get the specific info. for you if you're interested. >Could you please send me your name and e-mail address via private >e-mail. My e-mail reader does not display the sender's true name or >e-mail address. > >More tomorrow... > >Rod Woodard >RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com >Loveland, Colorado >RV-8, #80033 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GHLX34A(at)prodigy.com (MR GEORGE T KILISHEK)
Date: Aug 05, 1996
Subject: RV-8 Wing ordered & RVaitor?
My RVator arrived today. George Kilishek RV8 SN 80006. Building control surfaces/wing kit ordered. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: RG Batteries
Does anyone have experience with RG batteries? My 25 amp RG has 300 hours in 1 1/2 years. The battery was purchased 05/06/94. The RV has set for about 1 1/2 weeks. When I went to start it today, the battery barely had enough power to turn the engine over. The adjustable voltage regulator is set at 14.3-14.5 volts. There has been no indication up till now of any problems. The battery is for sure over two years old and I don't know how long it sat on the shelf before purchase (probably not long). If lack of charge in the battery is the problem (as opposed to a bad ground, which I doubt), I would think that this would show up on the E.I. volt/amp gauge. I can't seem to find the reference card for this battery. I'm going to pull the battery and put a charger on it, but if I remember correctly, there is a spcified charging procedure that is to be followed. Any ideas? Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 1996
From: Don Mack <donmack(at)theramp.net>
Subject: RV6 Battery Box?
At OSH I noticed that several RV-6's had made slots in the sides of the battery box (I assume to reduce heat build-up). Any comments? My concern is that you are defeating the purpose of the solid box. If the battery were to explode, it would have an easy exit point, versus being "self contained" within the box. Although if the battery where to explode, I don't know that the box would hold together anyway. Don Mack RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 05, 1996
From: Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com>
Subject: Re: Landing lights
> > You wrote: > > > >Survey time! > >I'm finally working on my wings. > >Which is the better landing/taxi light for an RV6A in your humble > >opinions? > >Duckworks, Olds, or BAC... > >All opinions welcome, especially those of you who have flown with one. > >Thanks in advance. > >Ed Cole > >emcole(at)concentric.net > > > I have to agree with Bill, Don the Duck will do right for you if there is a problem or you don't like them, BUT even though Don is a friend I can't say how his lights work because he did not have them when I built my airplane, I have Bob Olds lights on my airplame and love them they light up the runway like a highway at night. Jerry Springer jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 1996
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: Re: OSH/Van's builder's banquet...
You wrote: > > >I will summarize briefly some of the points made at the banquet and at >the RV-6 forum I attended on Saturday: > > >Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com >RV-6A #24751 >Skinning the HS... > What a great job Brian did of summarizing the show from the RV perspective! If anyone did not read it and hasn't deleted messages above, go back and read it, or look at it in the archive. One thing that might interest you is that Jon Johanson is now the ONLY person to fly all 4 oceans solo in a single engine and will be the ONLY person to fly around the world twice single engine solo. He is doing it in opposite directions, but I don't think that is critical to the record. Jon and his RV-4 are making an historical record that might stand for a long time -- until Rob Lee decides to challenge it after making his milk substitution! :) (Sorry guys and gals -- you had to be there at our table!) Best regards, Bill Costello -- Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246 Building RV-6 or 6A | Reserved N97WC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel gauges, etc.
> Mitch, how do you calibrate the SW gages? I have the senders from Van > installed in my tanks and set so that at the full range of travel the > floats don't quite touch the top or bottom of the tank skins. Ohm > meter readings are about 30 ohms full and 320 ohms empty. What else is > there to do? I haven't bought gages yet because the ones Van's sell > don't look too good and I'm looking for something better. > > Dick Steffens RV-6 finishing canopy. > resteffe(at)dpcmail.dukepower.com Dick; I know nothing about ohms etc to calibrate them. I do know that there is a certain amount of incompatibility between gauges and senders, they must be paired by ohms or something. The main thing I remember is that you don't just blindly put a gauge with a sender, they should come together. As for calibrating, at installation, I hooked up a battery to the sender, gauge combination, adjusted the arm by bending so that when the float was at the bottom, the gauge indicated E, when at the top it indicated F. Then, after the wt and bal process, while the a/c was still at level att., I poured a measured 5 gal in ea tank and marked where the gauge indicated and called it 1/4, then 5 more gal and marked 1/2, 5 more and 3/4. Yep,filled up and marked it F. I realize that due to slope of the tank(center line to tip) the F is a slow indicator,but I can't be perfect! That was my 'shade tree' calibration. It makes no difference if it has 5 or 500 ohms where ever it is, The amounts of fuel and the indication is what I was after. But it did very little good. The first time the left tank indicated just below 1/2 and I put in 18.5 gals, I knew the system was unreliable. The rt tank is almost as bad. As of now, the fuel gauges are FAA eye wash CYA instruments, my watch is my reliable system. Don't know if the capacitance systems are any better, there are some on the market, I think about 125.00 per tank. The cap. systems in AF a/c are very good but don't think I can afford one out of an F-4 for my RV6. Hope I haven't told you how to make a watch instead of the time. John D John Darby RV6 N61764 flying johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov>
Subject: Fuel gauges, etc.
Date: Aug 06, 1996
I'm not intimately familiar with Matt's system. The key to this whole thread is to insure you know how much fuel you have on board! One of the advantages to the RV's (most anyway) is the two independent fuel tanks. I'm a firm believer in system redundancy wherever it's practical. I've accidentally run a tank dry in various airplanes, including my RV-4 and a Boeing 707 (which had 11 tanks and 12 fuel quantity gauges), more times than I care to admit. Fuel starvation is a leading cause in GA accidents and is probably the easiest to fix. Two independent, working fuel gauges that read absolute fuel quantity serve as a positive means of monitoring actual fuel on board. Other things such as dip sticking, timing, totalizers, preflight planning, etc. are good operating practice and invaluable backups. None of these backups will detect a malfunction such as an inflight fuel leak. A single gauge with a switch does meet the FAR requirement but still allows some potential for human error. Two gauges provide superior situational awareness at a glance. Think about it, if you run out of fuel, you are guaranteed a forced landing. The fuel gauges are one of the most important, and most neglected items in the panel. My RV-4 is IFR capable with 3 gyros, CHT, EGT, G meter, panel mounted moving map GPS, nav com, transponder, and all of the required stuff. I still found room for 2 fuel gauges down by the fuel selector. For most types of flying the added cost, weight, and space of the second gauge is insignificant in the big picture. There is mega panel space in an RV-6 when compared to an RV-4. My very biased opinion is two simple, calibrated, working fuel gauges are invaluable as a means of knowing how much fuel is onboard during flight and for maintaining situational awareness in a pinch. Thanks, Gil, for pointing out the calibration numbers and the archive. That's good "gouge." Mitch Robbins ---------- From: owner-rv-list[SMTP:owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com] Sent: Monday, August 05, 1996 7:20 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel gauges, etc. Robbins Mitch wrote: > > I certainly agree with the "rinky dink" fuel gauge problem. Stewart > warner makes a complete line of reasonably priced, high quality > automotive fuel gauges and senders. Many good auto suppliers carry them. > Pick a set you like, spend 5 minutes calibrating them and you can have > real gauges that actually work for a very reasonable price. The key is > that they do have to be calibrated to the installation. My experience is > they're much better than the products used in most GA aircraft. > > Mitch Robbins > > ---------- > From: owner-rv-list[SMTP:owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 01, 1996 5:50 PM > To: rv-list > Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel gauges, etc. > > Bob Skinner wrote: > > > > >Rick; If I were doing it again, I wouldn't want to mess with the > rinky > dink > > >fuel gauges that are so grossly inaccurate as to make them virtually > > >decorations on the instrument panel. Get a device such as Matts to > start > > >with. The totalizer concept is vastly preferable in my opinion. I've > got > > >the standard Vans fuel gauges, and I calibrated them with the a/c in > level > > >flight att. Early in the time, I had an occasion to fly it down on > fuel > > >over about 3 flights. The left tank was indicating just below 1/2 > when I > > >was preparing to land. At fill up, the left tank took 18.5 gals to > fill!! > > >The clock is the only way to go with those kind of gauges. > > >If Matts device isn't sat. for FAA reqmts, then put in one gauge with > a > > >selector switch for FAA, then have Matts device to use. > > >Just my opinion. I'll bet there are some differing ones out there. > > >John D > > >John Darby RV6 N61764 flying > > >johnd@our-town.com > > > > Rick, John is right. I look at the fuel gauges as satisfying a legal > > requirement. Perhaps one of the programable fuel gauges (E.I.?) or > Vision > > Micro would be an answer. I'm considering putting one gauge with a > left > > right switch on my nest RV. I think a fuel totalizer/fuel flow like > Matt > > offers, would be a geat idea. I use a stop watch (although my bladder > > generally tells me when three hours are up) and also have a calibrated > dip > > tube for probing the tanks. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net > > Thanks Bob. Would you suggest going to a reasonably cheap gauge if the > intent is to use a system like Matt's as the primary? Why does the FAA > not accept a system like Matt's as enough?? > > Thanks again > Rick Thanks for the reply Mitch... Are you saying I should find automotive gauges and then use a system like Matt's as primary. Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 1996
From: Ming Ho <mho(at)post.cis.smu.edu>
Subject: Re: Fuel gauges, etc.
Hello John, > Don't know if the capacitance systems are any better, there are some on the > market I have a pair of Skysports (Model 2DA4) capacitance system and they work great ! One, however, needs to determine the fuel quantity at various markings (1/4, 1/2....), as the tanks slops down. It is so accurate that as one rocks the plane, the needles would move as the fuel flows from one side to the other. Kind regards, Ming ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 1996
From: Bill Baines <bill(at)sfu.ca>
Subject: Cracks during dimpling
After several weeks off the RV (-4) project, we got back to it yesterday. We were dimpling wing and tank parts, and encountered two problems. 1) The edge distance between the tank screw mounting holes along the trailing edge of the tank skin were a little small. With the specified 5/16" the holes through the spar web are uncomfortably close to the spar bars. 2) The other row of tank mounting holes in the W406B web doubler seem to provide the majority of the structure for securing the tank to the wing. Our holes through the doublers lips were pretty much down the middle of the lip. The bad news is that when I dimpled the #19 holes for the AN5098-R8 countersunk screws and plate nuts, the shoulder of the female dimple dye slid up the radius of the lip bend forcing the dimple toward the edge of the lip -- which initiated tiny (but visible) cracks at each hole. W406B is scrap!!! The female dye was ground down slightly to allow more room, but it wasn't enough. Also the dimpled holes look fine from the outside. I didn't notice the cracks until I was examining the wing from the other side. This setback put a big damper on the day... Questions: 1) Has anyone else pondered the relatively close tolerances required in these areas of the RV structure? 2) I think I have seen some RVs with 6-32 screws in one of these rows of mounting screws. My prints clearly show 8-32 for all tank mounting screws. Has there been amendments (called Vans, almost everybody is at Oshkosh) that allow 6-32? 3) How do you dimple these slim lips anyways? I ground my dimple dye down a lot more, to the point where we have a sharp edge -- and that is not real good either. Thanks in advance... -- Bill Baines bill(at)sfu.ca Home/Bus: 604-535-2709 | VE7FML Fax/Job: 604-533-0618 | Pager: 604-680-9072 | ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 1996
From: csanchez(at)BayNetworks.com (Cheryl Sanchez)
Subject: Vacuum pumps?
Hi, I am in the process of getting together all the remaining components for my 6A. In the Aircraft Spruce catalog they list two vacuum pumps: Airborne and Edo Air. According to the catalog the Edo Air has an aluminum rotor. Anyway, does anyone want to make a recommendation? Thanks. Cheryl Sanchez csanchez(at)world.std.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 1996
From: Robert Moore <bobmoore(at)wwd.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel gauges, etc.
Robbins Mitch wrote: > I've accidentally run a tank dry in various airplanes, including my > RV-4 and a Boeing 707 (which had 11 tanks and 12 fuel quantity gauges), > more times than I care to admit. What kind of a 707 was that? I flew them for 17 years and never saw more than 7 quantity gages. Bob Moore PANAM (retired) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KHarrill(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 06, 1996
Subject: Re: Fuel gauges, etc.
This discussion leads me to a couple of conclusions: 1. It would be most prudent to have reliable information about actual fuel quantity, especially when it is "low." 2. It is very convenient to also have information about fuel flow, used, remaining, etc. 3. Maybe the combination of a fuel flow system and a "low fuel" warning light (very reliable and reflects "actual" fuel) could satisfy both criteria. Questions: 1. Would the above combination of a fuel flow system and low fuel warning light satisfy the FAA? 2. Where do you find a "low fuel" warning light system? Ken Harrill RV - 6, wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov>
Subject: Fuel gauges, etc.
Date: Aug 06, 1996
I apologize to the list for straying from RV subjects. Obviously then, they weren't PANAM's airplanes. I believe the 7 you're referring to are: 1 center wing 4 mains 2 reserves Don't forget the "real" ones with 1 forward body 1 main body 1 aft body 1 upper deck ____________ 11 tanks 1 totalizer ____________ 12 gauges PANAM's didn't gross at 322,500 lb or hold 200,000 lb of JP-4 (hint)! You have me beat, I only flew them for 5 years and I wish I was retired! Bob, my point was simply to emphasize the importance of good fuel quantity indications in response to Rick's previous question. Mitch Robbins ---------- From: owner-rv-list[SMTP:owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 1996 2:10 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel gauges, etc. Robbins Mitch wrote: > I've accidentally run a tank dry in various airplanes, including my > RV-4 and a Boeing 707 (which had 11 tanks and 12 fuel quantity gauges), > more times than I care to admit. What kind of a 707 was that? I flew them for 17 years and never saw more than 7 quantity gages. Bob Moore PANAM (retired) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 1996
From: Robert Moore <bobmoore(at)wwd.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel gauges, etc.
Robbins Mitch wrote: > PANAM's didn't gross at 322,500 lb or hold 200,000 lb of JP-4 (hint)! Is 322,500 lbs all a KC-135 would do? B-707-321's went 333,100/247,000. What is your occupation now? Bob Moore bobmoore(at)wwd.net Naval Aviator V-15753 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 1996
From: Louis Willig <larywil(at)Op.Net>
Subject: Re: RV-3 Value
>I'm considering "trading" my Cherokee 140 for a taildragger for a new >challenge and to build some tailwheel time while I'm working on my RV-8. >Can anyone tell me the approximate value of an average RV-3? I realize >things can vary considerably with equipment and quality of workmanship, >etc.... but just a ballpark. > >Thanks! > >Rod Woodard >RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com >RV-8, #80033 > > > Rod, I recently spent much time investigating RV-3's with the intention of purchasing. Simply put, the value and the price are not the same thing. You will see prices for -3's range from $18,000 to $28,000 + . Often you get what you pay for. But NOT always. A "Bondo" special with a fusilage tank, nearly run-out 0-320 or an 0-290, little or no avionics will be at the low end. A low time aircraft with a radio and Transponder, good paint and well built is up to $25,000 - $30,000. Don't expect any navigation or vacuum system on any RV-3. I don't want to chat about the qualities of of the aircraft. Every owner will tell you it is great. They must be right. Bill Benedict took me up in Van's own -4 for a demo and I almost hijacked the plane back to Philadelphia. They say the -3 is even better. Good Luck. Louis Willig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 06, 1996
Subject: Re: Cracks during dimpling
>This setback put a big damper on the day... > >Questions: > >1) Has anyone else pondered the relatively close tolerances required > in these areas of the RV structure? > >2) I think I have seen some RVs with 6-32 screws in one of these rows > of mounting screws. My prints clearly show 8-32 for all tank mounting > screws. Has there been amendments (called Vans, almost everybody is > at Oshkosh) that allow 6-32? > >3) How do you dimple these slim lips anyways? I ground my dimple dye down > a lot more, to the point where we have a sharp edge -- and that is not > real good either. > >Thanks in advance... >-- >Bill Baines bill(at)sfu.ca Bill: The "front" row of holes are machine countersunk into the tank skin and rear tank baffle flange. The rear row are dimple countersunk in the tank skin, and I machine c/s the spar flange, using the c/s nutplate as a guide for the c/s pilot. A #30 c/s does both machine operations fine, when piloted into the #8 nutplate fine. Do you have to re-do your spars? Ouch. Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ACCPILOT(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 06, 1996
Subject: unsuscribe
unsubscibe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Overhauled Engines
Date: Aug 06, 1996
While at Oshkosh, I ran into a guy named Tom Oliver from Crash Site Salvage in Cahokia, Illinois. (He said it was close to St. Louis.) Tom was advertising 0 SMOH Lycoming O-320 E2D engines for $8700 complete. This included "Mags & New Harness" and he told me it also included a carb. "Add starter and alternator" he told me. He told me he only needed 6 weeks lead time to provide an engine. This price sounds too cheap, but if it's a good engine, who am I to complain. Has anyone had any dealings with this company who can attest for their quality or lack thereof? I'm pretty much a complete idiot in this area. How does someone like me keep from getting burned? I've been told to ask for what he automatically replaces for that price, but don't know how to judge whether it's a good list or not. Comments? If anyone wants to get in touch with these people, their phone number is 618-332-2533. For all it's worth, Bob Barrows (who sometimes advertises in the back of Sport Aviation) told me last year he could provide an engine for $10,000. His lead time is a lot longer than 6 weeks, however -- like about a year. -Joe -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037 Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg 6121 St. Croix Ave. N. Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 06, 1996
Subject: Re: RG Batteries
<< I can't seem to find the reference card for this battery. I'm going to pull the battery and put a charger on it, but if I remember correctly, there is a spcified charging procedure that is to be followed. Any ideas? Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net >> Bob, I just bought one about 2 months ago. Here is the pertinent info from the manual. BTW, they are waranteed on a sliding scale pro-rata for 2 years (figures, huh?). They should be charged when their open circuit voltage drops below 12.5V (2.08 per cell). They should be charged with a constant potential (CP) or constant voltage charger regulated at 14.1V (2.35 per cell). Charging is complete when voltage stabilizes for one hour. Test specs: One hour capacity = 21 amp/hours. Minimum capacity is 16.8 amp/hours. If less than 16.8 the battery is not considered airworthy. Hope this helps. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kpsmith(at)sprynet.com
Date: Aug 06, 1996
Subject: Re: NRI Engine at OSH
an.sagenttech.com> I spent quite a bit of time with the NRI folks Tuesday at OSH. I am an engineer and involved with machinery and castings. The work advertised and the work displayed were both impressive. One of the concerns of any powertrain is torsional vibration. If one can believe the NRI folks, they did a lot of homework in this area. The spur gear-planetary type reduction box as fitted on the RV includes a one-way torque transfer device. THis makes the system response frequency seem shorter and stiffer than a direct connection to the prop. If they did their homework as they say, the natural response frequencies will all be outside those generated by the engine. No details were provided as to how this one-way torque device works, but the desk display version worked great. The best information that the booth workers could give me was that it was called a "cam bearing" arrangement, with bearings having a lobe to only allow one way torque transfer. The display literature claims that dynamic braking is still posssible (i.e. high speed descent against a low throttle), but I do not see how more than the frictional losses times prop RPM can be taken in by the system. Something has to eat the ponies, and if the engine isn't run by the prop, friction in the reducer is all that's left. They claim lots of dyno abuse which the system passed. The firewall forward installation replaces all in the finish kit except the canopy, so about a $4000 savings is advertised vs an new lycoming on an RV 6. The firewall forward weight is about 60 pounds less all up (maybe with,maybe without the back up battery), and the prop is two or three inches farther forward. Double electronic ignition feeds one plug per cylinder through a High Power diode pack. The radiator is behind the engine, with air ducted there around the sides of the cowl inside, into a plenum, then down through the radiator. A portion of the intake air (through one normal and one enlarged normal intake) was divided for case cooling and to feed the down draft throttle body injection. A heat box is recommended and the MUFFLER had a hot air chamber installed, but no hot air path was installed to the intake. The RV-6 there used a modified Van's cowl, but a new design is promised. Cowl came off just like normal. The prop was a poor match to the RV. What they bragged about were some VERY LOW fuel consumption numbers. After listening and asking several ways, I believe that: Top speed with the prop was about 150 mph or less; the prop "cavitated" (stalled) at high power both at the top end and the low end (too little blade area, my bet); the great fuel numbers came from running along with a loafing engine; take off and climb performance were disappointing and top end was worse. The in-house prop product can be easily replaced with a wood prop, if claims are true. Seems about right. I wonder what prop was on the dyno... Hope this was not too long. Ken Smith. RV-6 empanage. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel gauges, etc.
>1. Would the above combination of a fuel flow system and low fuel warning >light satisfy the FAA? Not by my reading of the regs. > >2. Where do you find a "low fuel" warning light system? > > >Ken Harrill >RV - 6, wings > They are out there, but I don't know off hand. John D John Darby RV6 N61764 flying johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Fuel gauges, etc.
>Think about it, if you run out of fuel, you are guaranteed a forced >landing. The fuel gauges are one of the most important, and most >neglected items in the panel. My RV-4 is IFR capable with 3 gyros, CHT, >EGT, G meter, panel mounted moving map GPS, nav com, transponder, and all >of the required stuff. I still found room for 2 fuel gauges down by the >fuel selector. For most types of flying the added cost, weight, and >space of the second gauge is insignificant in the big picture. There is Mitch; I don't argue with what you say. But if the fuel gauges are grossly inaccurate, I don't care if you have 10 per tank, they are no good to you. So I stand by my statement that the ones that I got from Vans are grossly inaccurate, and why then install two of them, even if you had a 707 panel in a RV6? Rather than what I have, I still say that a system like Matts is better, maybe no good if you spring a gross leak while flying through the blue, but most of the time that happens is when you take fire from friend or foe. Then the capacitance system would pay off, or ACCURATE tank gauges, one per tank or ten per tank. I stand on my statement that my gauges are eye wash for FAA, my watch is more accurate for fuel starvation time, and a better system is needed. John D John Darby RV6 N61764 flying johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvav8er(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 07, 1996
Subject: RV-6 WING KIT FOR SALE
I would like to go the quick build route if I can sell my wing kit. Still in the crates with a Phlogiston spar. I'll make someone a good deal. In Southern California. Call (909)465-7854. Leave a message and I'll call you back. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 1996
From: Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel gauges, etc.
> Mitch; I don't argue with what you say. But if the fuel gauges are grossly > inaccurate, I don't care if you have 10 per tank, they are no good to you. > So I stand by my statement that the ones that I got from Vans are grossly > inaccurate, and why then install two of them, even if you had a 707 panel in > a RV6? Rather than what I have, I still say that a system like Matts is > better, maybe no good if you spring a gross leak while flying through the > blue, but most of the time that happens is when you take fire from friend or > foe. Then the capacitance system would pay off, or ACCURATE tank gauges, > one per tank or ten per tank. I stand on my statement that my gauges are > eye wash for FAA, my watch is more accurate for fuel starvation time, and a > better system is needed. > John D > John Darby RV6 N61764 flying > johnd@our-town.com (John not picking on you just using your statement to make mine):-) I have the SW gauges and senders supplied by Van's in 1988 and find them to be very accurate, if the time is taken to set them up while building the tanks, I know that when the needle hits the big E the engine will quit, I also have Matts FuelScan unit but flew for 6.5 years with out it, it only confirms what I know about my fuel system, if my tanks hold 36 gal and I burn 9 gph I have 4 hrs flying time so after about 3.5 hrs I had better be looking for fuel. the point being I only want to know how accurate the guages at the empty marks the rest is basic pilotage. After the first few times you fill up you will learn your fuel system. You can have all the bells and whistles in the world and still run out of fuel without using basic gph and time flown. Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First Flight July 14, 1989 :-)Hilsboro, OR jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca
Date: Aug 07, 1996
Subject: Sight gauges (was: Fuel gauges, etc.)
I posted this idea once before, here it comes again. Take another line out of each tank and run it to a clear tube at the centre of the fuselage. Tee the top of the sight gauge into the vent system and you have a direct indication of fuel on board. If it is awkward to see down on the floor it could be used as a backup for a totalizer. It will satisfy the inspector. Calibration is simple and accurate from the first to the last unit. A little paint and some graduated containers to fill or drain the tanks. Do the port tank with fuselage level and the starboard with the tailwheel on the ground. Here are some numbers for the RV-6 (inches): Tank span 46.00 Tank depth at spar 7.83 Dihedral (deg) 3.00 Inboard edge of tank 23.00 Vertical distance from fuselage bottom at the centreline to the lowest level of the tank 1.21 Depth of tank 10.33 David Fried DF-6 C-____ dfried(at)dehavilland.ca ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel gauges, etc. Date: 8/7/96 12:23 AM I stand on my statement that my gauges are eye wash for FAA, my watch is more accurate for fuel starvation time, and a better system is needed. John Darby RV6 N61764 flying johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 1996
From: Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com>
Subject: Re: Overhauled Engines
Joe, Your statement says alot and raises a red flag. Please remember the golden rule. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR! Maybe a AC mechanic could pick up this engine and have great sucess with it but if you really don't know much about them please consider a quality product from a known shop. You and your passenger and putting your confidence in the airframe and especially the engine. Dan Boudro RV-4 N9167Z Albuquerque, NM dboudro(at)nmia.com On Tue, 6 Aug 1996, Joe Larson wrote: ****** snip ******* > > I'm pretty much a complete idiot in this area. How does someone like me > > -Joe > ******* snip ****** > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 1996
From: Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com>
Subject: T6 info needed
Sorry for off topic message but I need to know if anyone is aware of a mailist that addresses T6's and such. As my RV-4 is about done I might have an opportunity to take on the restoration of a T-6D and need to get some info. Thanks. Richard E. Bibb TEL: 301-571-2507 Director ALT: 301-564-4404 Fore Systems Federal, Inc. FAX: 301-564-4408 6905 Rock Spring Drive, #800 email: rbibb(at)fore.com Bethesda, MD 20817 PAGE: 800-719-1246 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov>
Subject: Fuel gauges, etc.
Date: Aug 07, 1996
I agree Jerry, and I couldn't (didn't) have said it better. The accuracy of the gauge is only as good as the setup. My 1986 SW gauges are accurate within about a 2 gallons throughout the range and right on at the low end. I haven't touched them since my original installation. I don't know about the ones Van is selling. That's why I suggested maybe looking at alternative SW gauges earlier in this thread. I guess the real point is that even lower cost gauges aren't necessarily inaccurate. Any gauge, even the high dollar ones, still has to be set up and calibrated. Mitch ---------- From: owner-rv-list[SMTP:owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 1996 4:45 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel gauges, etc. > Mitch; I don't argue with what you say. But if the fuel gauges are grossly > inaccurate, I don't care if you have 10 per tank, they are no good to you. > So I stand by my statement that the ones that I got from Vans are grossly > inaccurate, and why then install two of them, even if you had a 707 panel in > a RV6? Rather than what I have, I still say that a system like Matts is > better, maybe no good if you spring a gross leak while flying through the > blue, but most of the time that happens is when you take fire from friend or > foe. Then the capacitance system would pay off, or ACCURATE tank gauges, > one per tank or ten per tank. I stand on my statement that my gauges are > eye wash for FAA, my watch is more accurate for fuel starvation time, and a > better system is needed. > John D > John Darby RV6 N61764 flying > johnd@our-town.com (John not picking on you just using your statement to make mine):-) I have the SW gauges and senders supplied by Van's in 1988 and find them to be very accurate, if the time is taken to set them up while building the tanks, I know that when the needle hits the big E the engine will quit, I also have Matts FuelScan unit but flew for 6.5 years with out it, it only confirms what I know about my fuel system, if my tanks hold 36 gal and I burn 9 gph I have 4 hrs flying time so after about 3.5 hrs I had better be looking for fuel. the point being I only want to know how accurate the guages at the empty marks the rest is basic pilotage. After the first few times you fill up you will learn your fuel system. You can have all the bells and whistles in the world and still run out of fuel without using basic gph and time flown. Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First Flight July 14, 1989 :-)Hilsboro, OR jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel gauges, etc.
>I have the SW gauges and senders supplied by Van's in 1988 >and find them to be very accurate, if the time is taken to >set them up while building the tanks, I know that when the >needle hits the big E the engine will quit, I also have Matts >FuelScan unit but flew for 6.5 years with out it, it only >confirms what I know about my fuel system, if my tanks hold >36 gal and I burn 9 gph I have 4 hrs flying time so after >about 3.5 hrs I had better be looking for fuel. the point >being I only want to know how accurate the guages at the >empty marks the rest is basic pilotage. After the first >few times you fill up you will learn your fuel system. >You can have all the bells and whistles in the world and >still run out of fuel without using basic gph and time flown. > > >Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First Flight July 14, 1989 :-)Hilsboro, OR >jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com > Jerry, I agree with what you say. I don't remember what brand units I have, but if they are the same as yours, then either I have bad gauges or installed/calibrated wrong. My past experience indicates that it is probably the latter. If you have time, would you share, either on the list or personnel e-mail, how you went about the install/calib. so that I might compare and ask questions? If that part is the same, then maybe I do have a bad set of gauges and I will change them out. You are right about learning the individual fuel system, that is what happened to me when it indicated just below 1/2 and took 18.5 to fill, even after I thought I had calibrated it correctly. But what the hell, I can screw up using a wedge!!! John D John Darby RV6 N61764 flying johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov>
Subject: Overhauled Engines
Date: Aug 07, 1996
I don't have any experience with the particular company, but the name certainly implies a lot. A key to buying a good used engine is not necessarily time since major. An engine can legally be called 0 SMOH simply by tearing it down and putting it back together. Conversely, an engine can only be zero timed by the manufacturer. Overhaul facilities vary to extremes on the quality of the work they do. Any engine that is overhauled by a facility other than the manufacturer should retain original logs and total time even though a "new logbook" is started. Be cautious if you can't acquire the original logs. The only true record of engine serial number on a lycoming is on the oil sump data plate. The sump can be easily swapped. The original build sheet, which is a factory document, references all other parts to the engine serial number. It is not uncommon for aircraft wreckage to be stored for 15 or 20 years, in as is condition, by an insurance company during litigation. However, some wreckage is salvaged within a few weeks depending on the specific case. Salvage dealers can acquire very good deals on wreckage and consequently can turn an engine over quite cheaply and still make a profit. What you really need to know is the background of the engine. Look closely at the original logs, and find out what was done during the overhaul. Many shops send out parts such as cranks and cams to other facilities for NDI. The NDI facility will have a work card and the part will have a yellow tag if it was inspected by a reputable facility. Find out what new parts were installed during the overhaul. Lycoming has a list of parts that "should" always be replaced. Many low budget overhaulers use after market parts. They're still certified but may not be the same or as good as the factory parts. I said "may". Facilities advertise "original Lycoming parts" for good reason. The "known" overhaul facilities usually have stayed in business because they do quality work. Enough of my rambling, good luck! Mitch Robbins ---------- From: owner-rv-list[SMTP:owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 1996 8:50 PM Subject: RV-List: Overhauled Engines While at Oshkosh, I ran into a guy named Tom Oliver from Crash Site Salvage in Cahokia, Illinois. (He said it was close to St. Louis.) Tom was advertising 0 SMOH Lycoming O-320 E2D engines for $8700 complete. This included "Mags & New Harness" and he told me it also included a carb. "Add starter and alternator" he told me. He told me he only needed 6 weeks lead time to provide an engine. This price sounds too cheap, but if it's a good engine, who am I to complain. Has anyone had any dealings with this company who can attest for their quality or lack thereof? I'm pretty much a complete idiot in this area. How does someone like me keep from getting burned? I've been told to ask for what he automatically replaces for that price, but don't know how to judge whether it's a good list or not. Comments? If anyone wants to get in touch with these people, their phone number is 618-332-2533. For all it's worth, Bob Barrows (who sometimes advertises in the back of Sport Aviation) told me last year he could provide an engine for $10,000. His lead time is a lot longer than 6 weeks, however -- like about a year. -Joe -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037 Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg 6121 St. Croix Ave. N. Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough)
Date: Aug 07, 1996
Subject: HEAT PROBLEM, WAS RPM RISES WITH BOOST PUMP
I recently posted a note describing an issue I needed help with. Several people responded with information and to them I say thanks. The problem was that on putting the boost pump on (a Bendix fuel injected 360), my rpm went up by about 200 rpm. I discovered that my idle mixture was too rich and therefore leaned it to give a 50 rpm rise when the mixture is moved from full rich to ICO at idle. The boost pump pressure was reduced as I guessed that it was somehow over riding the mech pump and this problem seems to have faded away. (I think the increased pressure gave me a lower fuel flow, hence a leaner mixture and higher revs) Unfortunately it has now manifested itself into a real mystery problem, here's what happens now. I start up from cold, everything's fine, taxi, run ups and take off. I land after one circuit and the engine is very unstable at low rpm. Its almost like it shuts off for a brief second and then starts again, every few seconds or so. The tach needle is bouncing around from about 300 to 1000 rpm. If the throttle is right back at idle, the engine eventually cuts out. Putting the boost pump on seems to exaggerate the situation. The engine seems to run fine above about 1400 rpm. I now let the engine cool and it starts and runs fine. After a couple of high speed taxi runs the symptom returns. I suspected that all my fuel lines were heating up. I have the gascolator and the high pressure boost pump mounted on the engine side of the firewall. All lines are firesleeved. I have shrouds on both pumps with blast tubes. My pumps are plumbed in parallel. To try and eliminate heat on the fuel lines I disconnected my boost pump and my fuel flow sender and just plumbed straight from the gascolator to the engine pump then to the servo. The problem is still there when hot (it has been really hot these last few days here). I'm discounting a heat related electrical problem because BOTH mags would have to cut out at the same time to give such wild swings in rpm. (If anyone has a different cut on this I'd be grateful) I am now running out of ideas. You folks in the hotter climbs might have some ideas. I suspect vapor problems but not sure from where. This is so frustrating with just 5 hours on it and the summer fast disappearing. I need some concrete suggestions, perhaps from someone who's had similar problems. Ken RV6A grounded ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com
Date: Aug 07, 1996
Subject: Re: RV-3 Value
RV>Rod, I recently spent much time investigating RV-3's with the intention of RV>purchasing. Simply put, the value and the price are not the same thing. You RV>will see prices for -3's range from $18,000 to $28,000 + . Often you get RV>what you pay for. But NOT always. A "Bondo" special with a fusilage tank, RV>nearly run-out 0-320 or an 0-290, little or no avionics will be at the low RV>end. A low time aircraft with a radio and Transponder, good paint and well RV>built is up to $25,000 - $30,000. Don't expect any navigation or vacuum RV>system on any RV-3. RV>Louis Willig Thanks for your reply, Louis. I'm meeting someone at the airport today who is thinking about buying my Cherokee. If this deal goes through, my hunt will definitely begin for a decent RV-3. If anyone out there in list-land knows of a good RV-3 for sale, please contact me. I'll be picking up the latest edition of Trade-A-Plane later this morning. Rod Woodard RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com RV-8, #80033 P.S. To those who asked for info. re: the 160 hp conversion on my Cherokee--I didn't make it to the airport last weekend, but I'll be there this afternoon. I'll get the info posted ASAP. Sorry for the delay. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 1996
From: Phil Arter <arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu>
Subject: Re: RV-3 Value
Rod, hi If you can't find an RV-3 you like, a friend of mine has a '51 Cessna 140A for sale. I have flown it about 20 hrs, and it's good practice for landing an RV-8. It has the same spring steel landing gear, and weighs about the same, just a lot less power. It has a higher CG so it is probably more difficult to handle on the ground than an RV. It has a fresh 100 hp overhaul on a C-95, and all the engine parts were balanced. It's very smooth and quiet. It also has good Cleveland wheels & brakes, and a Scott tailwheel. It has a mogas STC, so it's cheap to fly. The control surfaces are a bit ragged around the edges, and it needs a paint job. He is asking something less than $20k. I am a CFI again, and he has put me on his insurance, so if you want a demo ride let me know. Phil arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu >I'm considering "trading" my Cherokee 140 for a taildragger for a new >challenge and to build some tailwheel time while I'm working on my RV-8. >Can anyone tell me the approximate value of an average RV-3? I realize >things can vary considerably with equipment and quality of workmanship, >etc.... but just a ballpark. > >Thanks! > >Rod Woodard >RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com >RV-8, #80033 > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 1996
From: Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com>
Subject: Re: HEAT PROBLEM, WAS RPM RISES WITH BOOST PUMP
I have no idea what is going on, but I think the best advice is to not fly the airplane, and get some pro help. This is definitely thin ice teritory. Chris > > I am now running out of ideas. You folks in the hotter climbs might > have some > ideas. I suspect vapor problems but not sure from where. This is so > frustrating > with just 5 hours on it and the summer fast disappearing. > > I need some concrete suggestions, perhaps from someone who's had > similar > problems. > > Ken RV6A grounded > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 1996
From: John <john(at)mail.hroads.com>
Subject: novice Qs
>From a 55 hr Cessna 152 pilot: Thanks to Brian Yablon for the excellent Oshkosh report! How might I decide what to build, say RV6 vs Glasair TD or FT? I guess the RV fast build and the Glasair are about the same time to build. I know about the possibility of allergic reactions to chemicals and the need for a heated shop. Flying characteristics? I don't have the Glasair kit price but I guess it's about $5000 more. Other considerations? Is there really something special and good about flying a tail-dragger? I imagine some car drivers thought badly of cars without timing adjustment on the steering wheel or the move from tiller to wheel. Is it possible/practical to build an RV6 convertible from TD to FT? I'm excited to fly a TD but what about resale value vs FT? I have a headroom issue. At Oshkosh this year I sat in a couple of RV6's, one hinged and one sliding canopy (Rob Lee's, very nice! Thanks to Greg "it's hot in Houston" Bordelon for your time.), butt to metal in both cases. The bubble didn't have enough headroom. I understand they both use the same canopy molding. How much adjustment is available during trimming? Is empennage blocking an issue? -- Best Regards john(at)mail.hroads.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 1996
From: csanchez(at)BayNetworks.com (Cheryl Sanchez)
Subject: Re: RV-3 Value
>I'm considering "trading" my Cherokee 140 for a taildragger for a new >challenge and to build some tailwheel time while I'm working on my RV-8. >Can anyone tell me the approximate value of an average RV-3? I realize >things can vary considerably with equipment and quality of workmanship, >etc.... but just a ballpark. > >Thanks! > >Rod Woodard >RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com >RV-8, #80033 > Rod, Don't forget that Van issued an alert about the RV-3s a couple of months ago. He found that the wing spars on the -3 are not as strong as the spars of the 3A. But the alert applies to both models and he is asking that all users restrict them to the utility category until further notice. Van is planning a kit to upgrade the spars of the -3 and -3A. As far as I know these kits have not been shipped to current -3 and -3A owners and builders. On complete aircraft one of the wing skins will have to be removed in order to reinforce the spar. For those who don't know, around 1984 Van changed the design of the RV-3 and it became the RV-3A. As I understand it, the changes had to do with reinforcing the rear wing spar to fuselage attachment and the main wing spar. On the -3, the spar is made of seven layers of 1/8" spar cap material. The -3A uses five layers of 3/16" material. There may be other changes too, I'm not sure. This will affect the value of the aircraft and the spar upgrade may be required in order to obtain insurance. Cheryl Sanchez csanchez(at)world.std.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov>
Subject: Ellison Throttle Body
Date: Aug 07, 1996
I just searched the archive regarding the Ellison throttle body. Does anyone have a current update about pros, cons, or experiences with their installation? Does anyone have an O-320 size Ellison that they would like to sell or trade for an almost new MA4SPA (single piece venturi and metal float) plus cash? Mitch Robbins robbinm(at)chi.ntsb.gov ________________________________________________________________________________
From: david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca
Date: Aug 07, 1996
Subject: Panel Layout
Thanks for the responses to the engine controls posting. I have settled on verniers for the MAP, RPM and mixture. The first two are together at the top of the panel support with the mixture below. The starter is a push-button that I can reach with my right index finger while the thumb is on the mixture. A gentle push depresses the mixture vernier button allowing smooth enrichment during starting. My left hand is free to operate the MAP vernier. The panel support has been slimmed somewhat. The small amount of extra space will be used for padding to protect my delicate self. If you can't move the edges, upholster them. :) One of the responders discussed the need for rapid changes in control position and he found verniers undesirable. If you need to move things forward the verniers are as fast or faster than a friction lock, just poke it with a finger. I agree that chopping the power will take longer if a button needs to be found and pressed. I can't wait to find out for myself. Now for a new topic. I am trying to decide on instruments for my panel. I do not intend to fly IFR and beyond getting home near dark, there will be no night either. Can I get by without the gyros? I can install an electric turn gyro but would rather like to avoid the vacuum system. I saw one of the factory 6's at Osh several years ago. There wasn't much on the panel at all. The Canadian regulations for night VFR will be checked for a definitive answer. I am looking for opinions from people who are comfortable flying with a less complete panel. Resale is not an issue as I intend to keep this one. There will be room for the basic six instruments should I wish to install gyros at a later date. For now a "g" meter could replace the horizon and a remote indicating compass, the DG. David Fried DF-6 C-____ dfried(at)dehavilland.ca ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com>
Subject: Nice meeting
Date: Aug 07, 1996
I just wanted to say that it was a pleasure meeting many of you at Oshkosh. I just wish I had met the rest of you here on the list. Rob Lee and I attended in his 6A. We had a good time. It is much more fun to attend the show in a homebuilt than a factory built. We had a lot of dead grass around the plane when we departed for Houston Monday morning. I look forward to meeting more of you guys at other flyins........... :^) Greg Bordelon greg(at)brokersys.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com>
Subject: Private Mail
Date: Aug 07, 1996
Guys, PLEASE continue to include your e-mail address in your post. Some of us want to reply to you off list. It is just ot difficult to dichpher or what ever.... the coding to figure out the original sender. Matt asked us to comply with this and to keep the signature files short. J.Ken Hitchmough I have mail qued-up for you concerning your problem. If you will send me your e-mail address I will forward the stuff to you..........See ya Greg Bordelon greg(at)brokersys.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com>
Subject: Vacuum pumps?
Date: Aug 07, 1996
I am in the process of getting together all the remaining components for my 6A. In the Aircraft Spruce catalog they list two vacuum pumps: Airborne and Edo Air. According to the catalog the Edo Air has an aluminum rotor. Anyway, does anyone want to make a recommendation? Cheryl Sanchez csanchez(at)world.std.com =========== Cheryl, You may want to check the overhaul prices of both and use that information in determining which to purchase. I have no experience with the Edo Air units. The Airborne units are easy to overhaul and you can do it yourself by ordering a kit from Cheif Aircraft ($69.95). Just follow the instructions. Either one will die on you and will probably need an overhaul long before your engine is overhauled. ps. don't forget there are two versions CW (clockwise) and CC (counter clockwise). Greg Bordelon greg(at)brokersys.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com>
Subject: HEAT PROBLEM
Date: Aug 07, 1996
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Aug 07, 1996
Subject: Re: Ellison Throttle Body
>Does anyone have an O-320 size Ellison that they would like to sell or >trade for an almost new MA4SPA (single piece venturi and metal float) >plus cash? > >Mitch Robbins >robbinm(at)chi.ntsb.gov > Mitch: I thought about it, didn't do it. Talk to Van. He had one and got tired of hard hot starts. If you really feel the need for an inverted system one of the guys in my hangar has had good luck with the Airflow Performance aftermarket injection system. He installed it with the purge valve they have and hot starts haven't been a problem. Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying 2 years ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 1996
From: "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Elevators
FYI - regarding the elevators in my quickbuild kit. I contacted Van's about the problem and they acknowledged some having not been properly constructed. No questions asked exchange or a credit. I knew I spent my money at the right place . Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com) Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 1996
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Panel Layout
> Now for a new topic. I am trying to decide on instruments for my > panel. I do not intend to fly IFR and beyond getting home near dark, > there will be no night either. Can I get by without the gyros? I can > install an electric turn gyro but would rather like to avoid the > vacuum system. I don't see any need for gyros in a strictly VFR airplane. True it can possibly help if you get into trouble (VFR into IMC) but if the instruments aren't there then I think you're less likely to push the weather and get into that situation in the first place. (BTW, I do plan on putting IFR gear in my plane, and to use it). Randall Henderson, RV-6 Editor, Home Wing Newsletter
http://www.edt.com/homewing randall(at)edt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Re: Overhauled Engines
Date: Aug 07, 1996
Regarding overhauled engines... > please consider a quality product from a known shop. The basic problem is: I personally know of NO "known shops". For all I know, the guy I mentioned (Tim something-or-other) may be the leading overhaul mechanic in the midwest. Or at least the people in St. Louis may all use him and have great experience. -Joe -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037 Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg 6121 St. Croix Ave. N. Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: HEAT PROBLEM, WAS RPM RISES WITH BOOST PUMP
Date: Aug 07, 1996
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB849C.BB5512E0 Ken, I am afraid that your problem is going to be one of those which is = solved by "being there" and not over the internet. I only have one = suggestion....first you must look at the changes that you made to get = you from where you were to where you are. I would suggest you draw a = flow chart diagraming what you had and then adding the changes you made = (adj. idle, reduce fuel pres., etc..) in flow sequence and indicating = the results. Then study this diagram and add your thoughts as they come. = You will either begin to understand what is happening or you will determine that you are in way over your head and need = professional help. (as in A & P) One way or the other the flow charting = has always helped me see things better. Also why do you think you have a = heat problem now and not before ? Hope this helps.......Al = prober(at)iwaynet.net ---------- From: J.Ken Hitchmough[SMTP:magic.ca!J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)matronics.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 1996 10:51 AM Subject: RV-List: HEAT PROBLEM, WAS RPM RISES WITH BOOST PUMP Unfortunately it has now manifested itself into a real mystery problem, here's what happens now..=20 Ken RV6A grounded=20 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB849C.BB5512E0 eJ8+IhEAAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ACQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAEkAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20AU01UUABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20A AAAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABYAAABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20A AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAYAAAAJ3J2LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbScAAgEL MAEAAAAbAAAAU01UUDpSVi1MSVNUQE1BVFJPTklDUy5DT00AAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYP AQAAAAQAAAAAAAADNDcBCIAHABgAAABJUE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90ZQAxCAEEgAEAOQAA AFJFOiBSVi1MaXN0OiBIRUFUIFBST0JMRU0sIFdBUyBSUE0gUklTRVMgV0lUSCBCT09TVCBQVU1Q AGAPAQWAAwAOAAAAzAcIAAcAFAALACkAAwAtAQEggAMADgAAAMwHCAAHABMADgAOAAMAFAEBCYAB ACEAAAAyREY4QzVGQjdDRjBDRjExOEQyQTQ0NDU1MzU0MDAwMAAgBwEDkAYACAYAABIAAAALACMA AAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQBAzeMsvoS7AR4AcAABAAAAOQAAAFJFOiBS Vi1MaXN0OiBIRUFUIFBST0JMRU0sIFdBUyBSUE0gUklTRVMgV0lUSCBCT09TVCBQVU1QAAAAAAIB cQABAAAAFgAAAAG7hL4s3PvF+C7wfBHPjSpERVNUAAAAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAf DAEAAAATAAAAcHJvYmVyQGl3YXluZXQubmV0AAADAAYQ0HZRhQMABxCsAwAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAA S0VOLElBTUFGUkFJRFRIQVRZT1VSUFJPQkxFTUlTR09JTkdUT0JFT05FT0ZUSE9TRVdISUNISVNT T0xWRURCWSJCRUlOR1RIRVJFIkFORE5PVE9WRVJUSEVJTlRFUk5FVElPTgAAAAACAQkQAQAAAGwE AABoBAAAOwcAAExaRnVT9rLu/wAKAQ8CFQKoBesCgwBQAvIJAgBjaArAc2V0MjcGAAbDAoMyA8UC AHByQnER4nN0ZW0CgzN3AuQHEwKAfQqACM8J2TvxFg8yNTUCgAqBDbELYOBuZzEwMxRQCwoUUaUL 8mMAQCBLCfAsCoVwSSBhbRuwA1ALcGSsIHQRgAVAeQhhIBNQFm8CYBPgIAQAIGdvBQuAZxxQbyBi ZSArAiAeUWYcUW8RsCB3rGhpEXAdcnMG8HYJgLEeMHkgIh5AHdNoBJCUZSIbsG4cQG5vBUD+byAA BcAg4R1wAjAEkRHA9i4bkQIgbCBQEYAgAB5jkHN1Z2cHkHRpAiAyLiShZmkRoByTIG3mdSURFaBv axuwBUAiIt8RcRkQB5EcZiVwYQ2wHgK/JDAlJANSHzEhASUzdykSVx4RKPgKwGUi4ncIYGy3HEAk BSUzZBwQB+BhKJDvFaAH4BFyBUBkBzAJwBvA/x3SH0AnNRGAHEAhUiDhA6BfJ7AtYCC0JocnZygn sGonIuAcMB1ALCAWEXVjvR5QZgpQAyATUAeQLjHQdRHAYySgKSJRLKQRsHG9ClBuMjEhUguALWBj HICXL6YywStAdDLgIFQvMvkTwHVkIFAcYB2BLWUhQ+8vcRykHuEkEGg2IBuwJvLeZSBQBaAHgCLg WSliAxBvAyAgkCDiHjFnM5EeEXV/IWAEkBPAIVIuEx2BEYBw/nAJ8B3RCoUFsSlTOnINsD8igS3B J9EnJiqxM4J3Yf8gUCHTHLMg8C61HoAgER0BPmYHkACQAiAHQEERbHAPIuAxMAQgM5FBICYg+lAz cE8egUBDIgQhoDri3yIiLLgd0hGAOSFsQEE8wf9C4SARB4A0AT8iHdEEIB5A5wJABJAi4EFsH9Af MSBQ/mQeICVCSBImAC5kI5EskP9BIQVAHQYhkCxxIWUeQAIQwSkhPyAgSG89EDcEf0LSMuBONEkA TSAdAgSQQB5pQEEisiKxCotsaTEEODAC0WktMTQ0zw3wDNBRcwtZMTYKoANg9RPQYwVALVOXCodS SwwwdVMWRgNhOlSeUxYMgiD8Si4a8U0wOsARcARgOOHAW1NNVFA6AMA7QKszQDUgIVhTX1i4QADA tnQDYAMAYzLgOcFdVD/fVU0GYAIwVn9Xi1cJgB6AbHNkQFAx0EEkECWSMEI3MdAxOTk2YaAwZDo1 GtBBTVw/VU1Uxm9ef1eLcnYtUNATwMdbTGKPXU51YmpTUWSvYVeLUlYtTGbBakBICEVBVEPQUk9C TCRFTTHQV0EF8FJQIk0H8ElTRQXwV0mAVEggQk9PU2zhmFVNUAqFUA0zNlIXAxpFUxY8U05JUD75 CoVVbkzBNsBCkBPQI0H/OsBGc0viA4EGkCRBIBE6wP0RsGwewCJhHiAskBYQQqF6bROyciBQHQUb JiDyJ/8EIC4TPOR0YySgb8Zya1hy/WwgNkOgCcAIYDvBHEBvbF9vb3B/cYwKhRUxAICgAwAQEAAA AAADABEQAAAAAEAABzDAwWkmtoS7AUAACDDAwWkmtoS7AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAlcE= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB849C.BB5512E0-- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 1996
From: John Ciolino <jbc1(at)zipnet.net>
Subject: introduction
Hello RV Listers, Like many others I have been lurking for some time while I tried to decide if my attraction to the RV is real love or not. And if so, which model is the right one. I like the RV-8 while my wife favors the RV-6 for its SBS seating. Made the trip to Oskosh, where I got a chance to sit in the -8 and a -6 as well as meet Van and listen to his forums. I'm going with the -8 (there was never real question but I promised my wife I look closely at both). Also promised her I'd paste a picture of my profile on the back of the front seat to keep her company so she agreed to be a backseater. I live in Bolton, CT right outside of Hartford and currently fly a Kitfox which I built. I have learned a lot already from all the postings even though many of the references used have no meaning for me (yet). The RV will be my first exposure to sheetmetal work which I find forbidding. The access to information and the prior experience of other builders available from this list help me decide I can take on this project. I am sure you will all hear my cries for help but I hope that someday I will be answering questions rather than asking them. John Ciolino jbc1(at)Zipnet.net Ordering -8 empannage tomorrow ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: Lyc 0-320 150 to 160
>I have an 0-320-E2A. what is required to convert it to a 160 hp model. I >know that I do not need an STC but how do I find out what is involved in the >conversion. Some have said it is just the pistons? I plan to buy all new cyl >anyway so this would not be a problem. I called Lyc and they were no help. > > > > Please copy me with any/all answers you get. I, also, have an E2A and have checked out that conversion somewhat. My understanding is that the pistons are the only change that need to be made although you may have to change the piston pin, too. The part number for the low-compression piston is 75413 and the high-compression piston is 75089. It appears that the E2A and D2A models both use the LW-14077 piston pin and LW-11775 piston pin plug. You would pick the rings to match the cylinder liners (chromed or nitrided) I've got both the Lycoming parts manual and Lycoming overhaul manual if you want me to look up any part numbers or whatever; actually, I've got them for the O-290 and O-320 high and low compression models. John Ammeter ammeterj(at)seanet.com 3233 NE 95th St Seattle WA, 98115 USA RV-6 N16JA First flight August 1990 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: RG Batteries
>Does anyone have experience with RG batteries? My 25 amp RG has 300 hours >in 1 1/2 years. The battery was purchased 05/06/94. The RV has set for >about 1 1/2 weeks. When I went to start it today, the battery barely had >enough power to turn the engine over. The adjustable voltage regulator is >set at 14.3-14.5 volts. There has been no indication up till now of any >problems. The battery is for sure over two years old and I don't know how >long it sat on the shelf before purchase (probably not long). > If lack of charge in the battery is the problem (as opposed to a bad >ground, which I doubt), I would think that this would show up on the E.I. >volt/amp gauge. > I can't seem to find the reference card for this battery. I'm going to >pull the battery and put a charger on it, but if I remember correctly, there >is a spcified charging procedure that is to be followed. > Any ideas? Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net > Bob, I've also got the RG battery. I seem to recall that the maximum charging voltage is only 14.2 volts. I doubt that what you have would cause any great problems, though. I'd go ahead and charge it, being careful to note what the charging voltage is. Don't go over 14.2 volts. John Ammeter ammeterj(at)seanet.com 3233 NE 95th St Seattle WA, 98115 USA RV-6 N16JA First flight August 1990 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Location
>John A: > >What's an Oberg oil filter? > >Bill Boyd >contemplating engine overhaul and waiting on the finish kit - RV-6A. > > It's sold/manufactured by ADC (Aviation Development Corporation), 1305 NW 200th St, Seattle WA 98177. Phone 206.546.3011, fax 206.546.8035; you can also reach them (him) at 1-800-944-3011. The owner is Joe Breuer and he's a real crusty charactor; don't mean that in a detrimental manner. He's just kind of short and blunt in his conversations; kind of like Van, only more so. I'm including an excerpt from the 'Best of Puget Sound RVators' that talks about the filter. "A DIRTY JOB MADE EASY by John Ammeter Puget Sound RVators What is your least favorite job? No, I don't mean mowing the lawn; what part of aircraft maintenance is the least favorite yet can be the most important job you can do? We all hate to change the oil in our engines yet it must be done. What if I told you that changing the oil filter would not spill a drop of oil, the filter would screen out particles as small as 3 microns and you wouldn't need to buy any more filters? Not only that but the oil filter will help cool your engine, and there is a warning light to be installed on your panel that will warn you of possible engine problems or that your filter needs to be cleaned. You may already have guessed that I am speaking of the ADC-Oberg filter. One of our local RV-6 flyers has been using this filter on his aircraft for some time now. He is totally satisfied with it and since his engine has over 2100 hours on it he is checking it every 25 hours for any contamination of metal particles. This filter has been used in high performance and racing circles for over 10 years. The University of Utah tested it against the best spin-on filters on the market and not only did it filter out particles that the spin-on filters missed but it also filtered out fibers which were part of the filter medium of the spin-on filter. The filter will clean 100% of the oil 100% of the time until the screen is contaminated; at this time the filter by-pass will open and a panel mounted caution light will come on to alert the pilot that the screen should be cleaned at the next convenient opportunity. The Puget Sound RVators have contacted the Aviation Development Corporation about a discount for our RV builder/flyers. The list price of the ADC-Oberg filter is $450.00 and the adapter needed if you now have a spin-on filter is $95.00. If you mention the Puget Sound RVators when you order the prices are $385.00 and $85.00. The filter assembly includes mounting brackets and needed hoses. This offer is not limited to members of the Puget Sound RVators. Any RV builder/flyer may take advantage of this offer; you must mention the Puget Sound RVators to get the special price, though. Contact the Aviation Development Corporation, 1305 NW 200th ST, Seattle WA 98177 (206) 546-3011; Joe Breuer, owner. ADC-OBERG OIL FILTER UPDATE by John Ammeter Puget Sound RVators The March issue of the Puget Sound RVator contained an article describing the advantages of installing an ADC-Oberg oil filter on your RV. I had been disappointed with the spin-on filter that I had originally installed on my RV-6 and decided to convert to the ADC-Oberg filter. As promised, the conversion was relatively simple and took only about 1 1/2 to 2 hours; much of the time was spent draining the oil and removing the oil that spilled down the rear of the engine when I unscrewed the spin-on filter. This was the main reason that I was changing to the ADC-Oberg filter; there is very little room between the engine and the firewall and whenever I unscrewed the spin-on filter about two or three tablespoons of oil leaked down the back of the engine. As you can imagine, that created quite a mess and the smell of burning oil during flight can be extremely unnerving. One disadvantage of the ADC-Oberg filter is the weight. It weighs about 2 1/2 lbs with the associated hoses. If you're trying to keep your RV as light as possible you might want to use some other filter or accept the extra weight. The effect of the extra weight is to move the C.G. forward which can help those RV's which may have a rear C.G. problem. One of the advertised benefits of this filter is reduced oil temperature; I experienced an increase in oil temperature. The oil temperature in my RV-6 rarely reached the green arc before installation of this filter; after the conversion, the oil temperature stays in the low range of the green arc. However, I also changed from a single viscosity oil (40 weight) to a multi-viscosity semi-synthetic (15-50 weight) oil at the same time I changed to the ADC-Oberg filter. My guess is that the multi-viscosity oil is more fluid and has a tendency to splash onto the cylinders and is absorbing more heat than the single viscosity oil that was in the engine before the filter conversion. If anyone has any ideas, please feel free to call me." I'm sure the prices are not the same but if you do order the filter be sure to ask for the discount. Remember every dollar saved goes for gas when your RV is flying. John Ammeter ammeterj(at)seanet.com 3233 NE 95th St Seattle WA, 98115 USA RV-6 N16JA First flight August 1990 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Re: Panel Layout
Date: Aug 07, 1996
> > Now for a new topic. I am trying to decide on instruments for my > > panel. I do not intend to fly IFR and beyond getting home near dark, > > there will be no night either. Can I get by without the gyros? I can > > install an electric turn gyro but would rather like to avoid the > > vacuum system. > > I don't see any need for gyros in a strictly VFR airplane. > > True it can possibly help if you get into trouble (VFR into IMC) but if > the instruments aren't there then I think you're less likely to push the > weather and get into that situation in the first place. I guess I disagree with not having gyros. Several reasons. None of them are a big deal, but it's enough to stick 'em in. 1. Low-time pilots (gonna let your wife fly it?) often use the AI as a guide in deciding how far to bank. Not fixate, but "that looks like 30 degrees" then check against the AI. 2. High-time pilots that don't get the occassional feedback might start making all their turns 45+ degrees without a gyro to "keep 'em honest." This is especially true in RVs. All my instructors have always drilled in "no more than 30 degrees in the pattern." 3. Delays happen, and night can come earlier than expected. 4. Weather sometimes changes enroute. 5. When I flew out of Des Moines (class C airport), I would be told to "maintain runway heading". Later, I would be told to "turn to XXX" while still in climb. I'm not sure how to do this all that accurately without a DG. 6. DG is a convenient way to help orient yourself. For instance, when I get an ATIS report, I glance at the DG to help figure the crosswind intercept angle. You can easily get the side right (left or right), but the DG helps to visualize the amount of angle. Gyros are cheap insurance. I would install an AI before a Turn Coordinator. And the gyros aren't just used for IFR flight. They can make VFR flight easier and safer. -J -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037 Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg 6121 St. Croix Ave. N. Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Re: novice Qs
Date: Aug 07, 1996
> How might I decide what to build, say RV6 vs Glasair TD or FT? > I guess the RV fast build and the Glasair are about the same time > to build. I know about the possibility of allergic reactions to > chemicals and the need for a heated shop. Flying characteristics? > I don't have the Glasair kit price but I guess it's about $5000 more. Other > considerations? Kit price is not the only cost. Remember to include cost of the tools you'll need to buy and to consider other things that aren't thrown in. Other considerations include: 1. Personal preference. Which plane do you just like more? 2. Builder support network. There's an incredible RV support network. 3. Reliability of the manufacturer. Glasair's a good name, but watch out for less popular kits. 4. Previous experience. Have you worked with fiberglass/sheet metal/wood before? 5. Building space required. Is this an issue for you? > Is there really something special and good about flying a tail-dragger? The planes you are talking about are "get there" kinds of planes. So you're going to take it to strange airfields, use it for family vacations, etc. So at the end of a several-hour flight, you're a little tired, you're a bit keyed up 'cause you're landing at a busy airport you've never seen before, and you're going to make a crosswind landing in a tail dragger... I've had rides in an RV-6 and a -4. *Great* airplanes. But I'm building a -6A. Of course, there are an awful lot of happey -3, -4 and -6 owners. These are great airplanes any way you look at it. > I have a headroom issue. Van's can work you through increasing the headroom. -J -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037 Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg 6121 St. Croix Ave. N. Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 1996
From: elon ormsby <ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov>
Subject: HEAT PROBLEM, WAS RPM RISES WITH BOOST PUMP
Ken: Just exactly where is your gascolator and the boost pump. I know you stated they are on the firewall but how high are they above the fuel supply in your tanks? Elon ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 1996
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: Re: introduction
You wrote: > >Hello RV Listers, > >I'm going with the -8 (there was never real question but I promised my wife >I look closely at both). >John Ciolino >jbc1(at)Zipnet.net >Ordering -8 empannage tomorrow > > > Welcome to the group, John, even tho you are going with one of those goofy tandem models. I'd recommend that you get some scrap (I think Alexander Aeroplane still has a sheet metal practice kit) and drill some holes and drive 20 or 30 rivets of all types with the squeezer and especially the rivet gun before you start on the real stuff. Find out what happens when you tilt the squeezer of pull the trigger on the rivet gun without being hard up against the rivet. You'll quickly develop confidence when you see that sheet metal is a pussycat when treated with a little care. Best regards, Bill Costello bcos(at)ix.netcom.com -- Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246 Building RV-6 | Reserved N97WC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 1996
From: ccarpent(at)pressenter.com (Cliff Carpenter)
Subject: Re: Panel Layout
> Now for a new topic. I am trying to decide on instruments for my > panel. I do not intend to fly IFR and beyond getting home near dark, > there will be no night either. Can I get by without the gyros? I can > install an electric turn gyro but would rather like to avoid the > vacuum system. Dave, I've been to lots of places in varying conditions in the last 5 yrs in my RV-4,with no gyros on board. Much fun can be had with out them. I'm now at a point though where getting on top and back down through the layers would greatly enhance my need to roam! Therefore the gyros go in this winter!! I will only be using them for planned IFR operations,off the rest of the time. Regards,Cliff Carpenter,RV-4,N141CC,ccarpent(at)pressenter.com BTW; Does anyone know of a MAC program for laying out an instrument panel? The PANEL PLANNER software at Oshkosh is only for IBM's. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 1996
From: n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com (Peter B. Mortensen)
Subject: Re: Rod End Bearings
You wrote: > >Installing my first set of rod end bearings in a -6 rudder. Three questions > >1) What's the best way to turn them and protect them? Any special tools or >jigs to make? I have designed and made a batch of rod end bearing screwing in tools. They are made of PVC pipe. I sell them for $6 each. I think my PVC tools are much nicer than the cut socket tool. If you are interested in purchasing one please contact me off the list at: n21pe(at)ix.netcom.com Peter B. Mortensen. _________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WStucklen(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 08, 1996
Subject: Re: Landing lights
<< Survey time! I'm finally working on my wings. Which is the better landing/taxi light for an RV6A in your humble opinions? Duckworks, Olds, or BAC... All opinions welcome, especially those of you who have flown with one. Thanks in advance. Ed Cole emcole(at)concentric.net >> I have the Bob Olds kit in both wings. Other pilots complain that I look like a 747 on final approach in the daylight! (It's soooo good to be seen!) After getting used to the fact runways are really lit up for landings in my RV, landing anything else (Piper or Cessna) is a real pain. With 120 Watts in each RV wing, the runway looks like daylight...... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV 742 Hrs since Sept '93 Wstucklen(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DerFlieger(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 08, 1996
Subject: Re: Vacuum pumps?
<< The Airborne units are easy to overhaul and you can do it yourself by ordering a kit from Cheif Aircraft ($69.95). Just follow the >> Cheryl, When you overhaul the pump using the kit mentioned, which includes new vanes, you must also inspect the surface of the "barrel". Thats where the vanes ride as the pump turns. If there is any scoring, say .001 inches or greater, new vanes will not restore the pump properly. You also must buy a new barrel. They are VERY difficult to find. The manufacturer will not sell you one because they do not approve amateur pump rebuilds (liability). The PMA houses will only sell you one if you are an A&P. Of course if the barrel is OK, then the rebuild kit works OK. Some rebuild kits do not include gaskets (special) so if you ruin one while taking it apart you are up the creek there too. This is another case where a simplistic solution to a seemingly simplistic problem has the potential of becoming an aggravating problem. Jim Stugart DerFlieger(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Davis" <jdavis1(at)ford.com>
Date: Aug 08, 1996
Subject: introduction
It is important to keep the wife happy (side-by-side). I got the -6.. --- Forwarded mail from rv-list(at)matronics.com Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 20:29:41 -0400 (EDT) From: John Ciolino <jbc1(at)zipnet.net> Subject: RV-List: introduction Hello RV Listers, Like many others I have been lurking for some time while I tried to decide if my attraction to the RV is real love or not. And if so, which model is the right one. I like the RV-8 while my wife favors the RV-6 for its SBS seating. Made the trip to Oskosh, where I got a chance to sit in the -8 and a -6 as well as meet Van and listen to his forums. I'm going with the -8 (there was never real question but I promised my wife I look closely at both). Also promised her I'd paste a picture of my profile on the back of the front seat to keep her company so she agreed to be a backseater. I live in Bolton, CT right outside of Hartford and currently fly a Kitfox which I built. I have learned a lot already from all the postings even though many of the references used have no meaning for me (yet). The RV will be my first exposure to sheetmetal work which I find forbidding. The access to information and the prior experience of other builders available from this list help me decide I can take on this project. I am sure you will all hear my cries for help but I hope that someday I will be answering questions rather than asking them. John Ciolino jbc1(at)Zipnet.net Ordering -8 empannage tomorrow ---End of forwarded mail from rv-list(at)matronics.com -- Jeffrey S. Davis Chassis Technical Specialist Ford Motor Company ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com
Date: Aug 08, 1996
Subject: 160hp 0-320 conv.
To all those who asked about the 160hp upgrade on my Cherokee 140: I finally made it to the airport last night. Here's the info.: The supplemental type certificate necessary to install a 160hp engine in a Cherokee 140 was purchased from RAM Aircraft Modifications, Inc., P.O. Box 5219, 7505 Airport Road, Waco, Texas 76708, (817)752-8381, (800)445-9713, (817)752-3307 (fax). Their STC (#SA2706SW) allows for the installation of any of the following in a Cherokee 140: O-320-D2A; O-320-D2B; O-320-D2C; or O-320-D3G. I understand that all these models are 160hp. If you have a Sensenich 74DM6-0-60 it will have to be repitched to 74DM6-0-58 in order to comply with the STC Instructions. As far as the actual engine modification goes, Firewall Forward documented it with a form 337. The entry reads as follows: This engine modified, at overhaul, to the -D3G configuration in accordance with Lycoming Parts Manueal PC-203-2 and Service Instruction #1304F. I was charged $270 for the RAM airframe STC in August, 1993. I'm based at Loveland, Colorado where the field elevation is 5016' and density altitude frequently tops 7500'. Believe it or not, I've noticed quite a difference between the old 150hp and the overhauled 160hp--especially in climb performance. It was a surprise to me that the 160hp also burned considerably less fuel than the old 150hp engine. I understand the high compression is more efficient than the lower compression engine and the specific fuel consumption (fuel per hp) is lower. If you're doing an overhaul anyway, I'd suggest doing the conversion. It's the best $300 I've ever spent. Let me know if I can provide anybody with any additional information. Rod Woodard RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com Loveland, Colorado RV-8, #80033 P.S. *****Don't forget to include your e-mail address in your signature!!!***** ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 1996
From: Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net>
Subject: Questions
Hi, all... Some great looking RVs at OSH this year, as always. I got my first ride in an RV...the 6A demonstrator. Flew just like my Yankee, except a lot faster! John said, "Take her up to 1500 over the lake, and level off." Before I got it trimmed, he said, "Uh, why don't we just level off at 1500..." A glance at the altimeter showed I had zoomed past 1500 already. I'm sure I had my first RV Grin! OK, questions: 1) The instructions say not to drill the holes in the HS front spar where ribs HS-404 & -405 will attach. By the time the holes are to be drilled, the assembly is already riveted together. How do you deburr the holes then? Or, do you? 2) The instructions refer to DWG 34. It's supposed to contain valuable information. I can't find any DWG 34. I have DWG 3PP-8PP, but no 34. Am I missing something? 3) I've got a collection of supplies catalogs now, and I can't find DuPont Veriprime in any of them. No paint supplier in town carries it. Where does everyone get this Veriprime? OK, that's all for now. I'll save up another batch of stupid questions for the next edition. --Don McNamara RV-8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca
Date: Aug 08, 1996
Subject: Power Response
I was interested in the nature of the controls I would use for the engine controls so I asked. The responses I got were great, just like this list. A couple of questions came up regarding throttle response. Assume the controls are verniers and all else is equal but the propeller type. What sort of response results from a given input(say 1/2 turn either way)at the throttle/MAP control, fixed pitch or constant speed? Does airspeed make a difference? Does RPM (say 2000 and 2600)? My question assumes that the prop control remains unchanged when the throttle/MAP control is changed. I have no experience with controllable propellers. Stuff like this might help other listers with their prop selection if the differences are significant. David Fried DF-6 C-____ dfried(at)dehavilland.ca ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 1996
From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)cris.com>
Subject: Re: Questions
Don McNamara wrote: > > Hi, all... > > Some great looking RVs at OSH this year, as always. > > I got my first ride in an RV...the 6A demonstrator. Flew just like my > Yankee, except a lot faster! John said, "Take her up to 1500 over the > lake, and level off." Before I got it trimmed, he said, "Uh, why don't > we just level off at 1500..." A glance at the altimeter showed I had > zoomed past 1500 already. I'm sure I had my first RV Grin! > > OK, questions: > > 1) The instructions say not to drill the holes in the HS front spar > where ribs HS-404 & -405 will attach. By the time the holes are to be > drilled, the assembly is already riveted together. How do you deburr the > holes then? Or, do you? > > 2) The instructions refer to DWG 34. It's supposed to contain valuable > information. I can't find any DWG 34. I have DWG 3PP-8PP, but no 34. > Am I missing something? > > 3) I've got a collection of supplies catalogs now, and I can't find > DuPont Veriprime in any of them. No paint supplier in town carries it. > Where does everyone get this Veriprime? > > OK, that's all for now. I'll save up another batch of stupid questions > for the next edition. > > --Don McNamara > RV-8Don, Dwg 34 is probably in the preview plans binder, do you have that?? Veriprime is available at most auto painting suppliers. Good luck on your project Ed Cole emcole(at)concentric.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 1996
From: Rick Osgood <rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us>
Subject: Re: Questions
Don McNamara wrote: > > Hi, all... > > Some great looking RVs at OSH this year, as always. > > I got my first ride in an RV...the 6A demonstrator. Flew just like my > Yankee, except a lot faster! John said, "Take her up to 1500 over the > lake, and level off." Before I got it trimmed, he said, "Uh, why don't > we just level off at 1500..." A glance at the altimeter showed I had > zoomed past 1500 already. I'm sure I had my first RV Grin! > > OK, questions: > > 1) The instructions say not to drill the holes in the HS front spar > where ribs HS-404 & -405 will attach. By the time the holes are to be > drilled, the assembly is already riveted together. How do you deburr the > holes then? Or, do you? > > 2) The instructions refer to DWG 34. It's supposed to contain valuable > information. I can't find any DWG 34. I have DWG 3PP-8PP, but no 34. > Am I missing something? > > 3) I've got a collection of supplies catalogs now, and I can't find > DuPont Veriprime in any of them. No paint supplier in town carries it. > Where does everyone get this Veriprime? > > OK, that's all for now. I'll save up another batch of stupid questions > for the next edition. > > --Don McNamara > RV-8 Hi Don... To answer question #3, you can get it from Aircraft Spruce in CA. Be ready for the sticker shock.. it cost about $80.00 a gallon after shipping and hazmet fees. I choose to go with Sherwin Williams Marine primer. This stuff is Zinc Chromate and bulett proof at $26.00 a gallon. I got mine from the local commercial dealer in Minneapolis. Rick Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 08, 1996
Subject: Re: Overhauled Engines
<> If the engine is comming out of a damaged aircraft ("Crash Site Salvage") you will want to make sure that the crank flange is within tolerance. Even if the crank is ok, sudden stoppage of the engine does some very nasty things to the cam, gears, valves, and more. Do not assume that because the engine has been overhauled that everything in the engine has been replaced. Th best bet on a salvage-recovery-engine is one that came out of a wind damaged aircraft. Ask the guy at Crash Site Salvage for one of these engines and don't be surprised if it carries a higher sales price. Caveat Emptor Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 08, 1996
Subject: Electronic Fuel Injection
I received the instruction manual for the SDS ED-1F electronic fuel injection system. It all seems quite simple to install. I have on question however, how would I run the fuel return line. Is it necessary for this line to go back to the tank or does it just need to loop back into the fuel line with a check valve. Maybe a header tank? Let me know what you think because I am really thinking about putting this system in my RV-6. Thanks. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 1996
From: Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com>
Subject: accident
There was a fatal accident at Double Eagle Airport yesterday. I believe it was the owner and his wife. The AC was a Thorp T-18. If I find out the cause I'll post it. Be careful out there, we do have an activity that is intolerant of error. Dan Boudro RV-4 N9167Z Albuquerque, NM dboudro(at)nmia.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 1996
From: "Scholl Jon" <scholl.jon(at)smtpgw.bcg.com>
Subject: Questions
Some answers! (I hope) 2. Look in the preview plans for dwg34. 3. I got Veriprime at an auto paint store. DuPont has an 800 number (call 800-555-1212 to get it) and can refer you to a local vendor. You may want to consider an epoxy primer. I used VeriPrime and liked it ok, but its not very hard. Jon Scholl scholl.jon(at)bcg.com _______________________________________________________________________________ You asked: 1) The instructions say not to drill the holes in the HS front spar where ribs HS-404 & -405 will attach. By the time the holes are to be drilled, the assembly is already riveted together. How do you deburr the holes then? Or, do you? 2) The instructions refer to DWG 34. It's supposed to contain valuable information. I can't find any DWG 34. I have DWG 3PP-8PP, but no 34. Am I missing something? 3) I've got a collection of supplies catalogs now, and I can't find DuPont Veriprime in any of them. No paint supplier in town carries it. Where does everyone get this Veriprime? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 1996
From: BDStobbe <70743.2727(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: introduction
John, you wrote: >>I live in Bolton, CT right outside of Hartford and currently fly a Kitfox which I built. >>John Ciolino jbc1pnet.net Ordering -8 empannage tomorrow I live in Winsted, CT and am building a -6 on what will probably turn out to be the 6-year plan. I am currently working on skinning the fuselage and have already finished the wings and tail. Let me know if I can be of any help, or if you just want to stop by and see some work-in-process... Bruce Stobbe 70743.2727(at)compuserve.com N508RV (reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 31, 1996
From: "J.Bennick" <1gatto(at)cdmnet.com>
Subject: Re: Nut for Low Fuel Warning Switch
> >I am installing the low fuel level warning switch sold by Aircraft >Spruce and manufactured by The Madison Co. The switch comes with a >threaded body, but no nut to screw onto the body. I have tried all of >the local hardware stores, but have been unable to find a match. >Aircraft Spruce says they don't sell a nut to go with the switch and >calls to The Madison Co. have gone unanswered. What have the rest of >you done when installing this switch? > >Jerald Hall >RV-6A, finishing the wings Jerald, The Madison switches have a tapered pipe thread "1/2 NPT". I mounted mine using aluminum welding flanges (Aircraft Spruce part # AN867-4, page 123). The flanges require some modification as they are made for welding. They are heavy and have a lip around their small flange. I took mine into work and had the machine shop cut the lip flush and reduce the diameter of the hub so that the flange would be wide enough to be drilled for 4 #8 mounting screws. The flange then looks similar to the fuel tank drain valve flange only larger. The switches are mounted in my rear baffles through holes large enough to accept the hubs. This was necessary because the left tank has a flop-tube, requiring me to put the switch in the second bay and I wanted to be able to access the switch. I would recommend using a doubler inside the baffle. The switch in the second bay mounts below the fuel gauge sending unit without interference. If you try to mount the flanges differently, remember that the switches must screw in from the hub side because of the tapered thread. Any machine shop with a lathe should be able to turn the flanges down for you. If a ready made flange exists for this installation, I haven't been able to find it. I hope this helps. If you want more information, feel free to contact me but due to logistics, I may be a little slow to respond. ---------------------------------------------- Chris Brooks, RV-6, S/N 22935 finishing wings (still) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: frankv(at)pec.co.nz
Date: Aug 09, 1996
Subject: Re: Questions
In <320A4C21.2064(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us>, on 08 August 96 at 01:20 PM, Rick Osgood said: >> 1) The instructions say not to drill the holes in the HS front spar >> where ribs HS-404 & -405 will attach. By the time the holes are to >> drilled, the assembly is already riveted together. How do you debur >> holes then? Or, do you? HS-405 (I think; the front half of the rib) doesn't get rivetted on until at the very end, after the skins. It doesn't get rivetted to the stiffeners at all (it gets cut round them. After drilling HS-404 (and the other back-half ribs) to the front spar, you disassemble and deburr. Obviously, you can't deburr between the stiffener and the spar. I guess you have to treat it as one piece of metal once its been rivetted together. Check out my "Bunny's guide to RV building" for what I've learnt. >> 2) The instructions refer to DWG 34. It's supposed to contain valu >> information. I can't find any DWG 34. I have DWG 3PP-8PP, but no 3 >> Am I missing something? Look in your preview plans manual. >> 3) I've got a collection of supplies catalogs now, and I can't find >> DuPont Veriprime in any of them. No paint supplier in town carries >> Where does everyone get this Veriprime? Ohhh, Nooo!!! Not the primer thread again! :-) I've been using ICI's PA-10 primer, which was recommended to me by another RV builder. It claims to be an aluminium primer; I guess it's OK. As has been pointed out before, any primer is better than what most 20-y-o Cessnas have inside them. Regards, Frank. (RV-6 HS in the jig, priming inside of skins this weekend) -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass; Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read". PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!" http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ | -------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 1996
From: Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA>
Subject: Re: Panel Layout
On Wed, 7 Aug 1996 david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca wrote: > Now for a new topic. I am trying to decide on instruments for my > panel. I do not intend to fly IFR and beyond getting home near dark, > there will be no night either. Can I get by without the gyros? I can > install an electric turn gyro but would rather like to avoid the > vacuum system. > > I saw one of the factory 6's at Osh several years ago. There wasn't > much on the panel at all. The Canadian regulations for night VFR will > be checked for a definitive answer. I am looking for opinions from > people who are comfortable flying with a less complete panel. I believe the Canadian "night" regulations require both a turn coordinator and a directional gyro. You could go with electrics on both I suppose, or use a small venturi to supply a vacuum DG. Cheaper that way - electric gyros are horribly expensive. One item I am unsure of is the lighting requirement. The only local RV I have seen here has a big ugly, draggy flashing red beacon mounted on top of the fuselage. I would hope that wingtip strobes would be sufficient for anti-collision lighting in Canada. Curt Reimer RV-6 slowly taking shape. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 1996
From: jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino)
Subject: Re: Questions
Don, There is no DWG 34 yet and there are no preview plans available for the -8. The 8 manual was made from the -4 manual, and some references are not correct. Also do not drill the two sets of holes in HS front spar that will be drilled in the assemble. Make sure your distance between the 810 and 814 are exact befroe drilling and attaching to the 802's. Good Luck! Jim Cimino RV-8 sn#80039 >Hi, all... > >Some great looking RVs at OSH this year, as always. > >I got my first ride in an RV...the 6A demonstrator. Flew just like my >Yankee, except a lot faster! John said, "Take her up to 1500 over the >lake, and level off." Before I got it trimmed, he said, "Uh, why don't >we just level off at 1500..." A glance at the altimeter showed I had >zoomed past 1500 already. I'm sure I had my first RV Grin! > >OK, questions: > >1) The instructions say not to drill the holes in the HS front spar >where ribs HS-404 & -405 will attach. By the time the holes are to be >drilled, the assembly is already riveted together. How do you deburr the >holes then? Or, do you? > >2) The instructions refer to DWG 34. It's supposed to contain valuable >information. I can't find any DWG 34. I have DWG 3PP-8PP, but no 34. >Am I missing something? > >3) I've got a collection of supplies catalogs now, and I can't find >DuPont Veriprime in any of them. No paint supplier in town carries it. >Where does everyone get this Veriprime? > >OK, that's all for now. I'll save up another batch of stupid questions >for the next edition. > >--Don McNamara > RV-8 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 1996
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Questions
> 1) The instructions say not to drill the holes in the HS front spar > where ribs HS-404 & -405 will attach. By the time the holes are to be > drilled, the assembly is already riveted together. How do you deburr the > holes then? Or, do you? No need. Standard aircraft practice (and simple practicality) says it is not necessary to debur "faying surfaces" (i.e. between pieces that are pressed and drilled together). There are several places in the project where you run into this. > 2) The instructions refer to DWG 34. It's supposed to contain valuable > information. I can't find any DWG 34. I have DWG 3PP-8PP, but no 34. > Am I missing something? You don't strictly need to see this yet, I didn't look that far ahead when I was building my HS but it could be handy. If you build it to the HS plans then you should be OK, but looking ahead at that drawing will help you see how it attaches to the fuselage so you might avoid any dumb mistakes like drilling holes in the wrong place or making the center angles too short or something, and in general help you get the complete picture. Don't you have a set of the "reduced" preview plans? Randall Henderson, RV-6 Editor, Home Wing Newsletter http://www.edt.com/homewing randall(at)edt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 1996
From: Tim Lewis <lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil>
Subject: Navaid discussion with MIDO
A post from late last year indicated that a Navaid devices autopilot wouldn't meet the turn coordinator requirments for IFR: > I have certified my RV-6A for IFR operations. When the FAA inspected the > plane for the airworthiness certificate, they stated that all > instumentation required for IFR operation in the FAR's (ie, the turn & > bank) is required have TSO certification. I choose the Centry I wing > leveler for that reason. I suppose you could have a TSO'ed turn & bank AND the Navaid device, but I > would ask somebody who knows more about the legalities... > > Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV S/N 21508 600+ Hrs in 2 Yrs > wstucklen(at)aol.com I got a different reading from the FAA Manufacturing and Inspection District Office (MIDO) here in San Antonio. According to Mr Euler of the San Antonio MIDO, there is no requirment for TSO'd equipment in experimental aircraft unless the TSO is specifically called out in FAR 91. That means, for example, that your ELT must be TSO'd because FAR 91-207 requires a TSO'd ELT. But FAR 91.205 (which specifys that you have a clock, altimeter, oil pressure gauge, gyroscopic turn indicator, etc. etc.) doesn't require TSO'd units. I asked specifically about using the non-TSO'd navaid devices autopilot as my gyro turn indicator to meet the FAR 91-205 requirement for IFR use. Mr Euler said that would be fine. Looks like different FAA offices have different "requirements." Tim Lewis RV-6AQ #60023 drilling the floors/seats lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 1996
From: Louis Willig <larywil(at)Op.Net>
Subject: Re: Panel Layout
I have flown my Cessna 150 across the US several times. I am not instrument trained and would never fly into IMC. I'm a chicken. I also would NEVER fly without my gyros. On several occasions I have flown into increasing density smoke ( The massive forest fires of '88) while flying in mountainous areas and in the Hell's Canyon of the Snake river. No one could have predicted that the visibility could so suddenly change. My point is: No sensible, VFR cross-country pilot should fly without the backup of an Attitude Indicator. No serious pilot should fly without a DG. Why would you want to? No, change that. Why would you want to build and fly a 40-50,000 dollar, serious airplane without a Radio, a X-ponder, a DG, and an AI? When I was in the smoke, I really thought I might not make it. The AI and later the DG took the load off, and I was able to fly the plane and keep cool. I was scared ----less. But I could fly rightside -up . If you don't want a vacuum system, purchase an electric gyro. They are well made, and cost more than a vacuum gyro. But they last much, much longer and the savings you get by not having a vacuum pump defrays the cost of the gyro. Don't leave home without one. Sorry to preach. Louis Willig ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 1996
From: MiDiBu <midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: introduction
>Hello RV Listers, > >Like many others I have been lurking for some time while I tried to decide >if my attraction to the RV is real love or not. And if so, which model is >the right one. I like the RV-8 while my wife favors the RV-6 for its SBS >seating. > Hello John and group, This is exactly the phase that Dian and I are going through. I'm going to wimp out and go with the RV-6. One question that I have not fully resolved is that I'm 6 feet 2 inches tall and weigh 220 pounds. She is tall and has long legs. I'm a true gentleman of the South and would never give her weight, but since she weighs only slighly more than half of what I do I may have to put some depleted Uranium under her seat to keep the plane from turning left all of the time :-) Good luck on the -8 project. I look foreward to talking to you and the rest of the group. My only real problem right now is cleaning out the garage and turning it into a real shop. This, my friends, is not a trivial matter. Mike Weller ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 1996
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Navaid discussion with MIDO
>... According to Mr Euler of the > San Antonio MIDO, there is no requirment for TSO'd equipment in > experimental aircraft unless the TSO is specifically called out in FAR 91. > Finally, someone with some sense. It's interesting how many people both in and out of the FAA seem to believe otherwise. The FARs very specifically state which instruments must meet TSO requirements in order to be used for IFR under part 91 (experimental or not). It's actually not much stuff, and doesn't include the gyros, turn coordinator, or even the NAV/COMs. If someone knows different I'd love to see the FAR. Hopefully my examiner will have as much sense as your Mr. Euler. Randall Henderson, RV-6 Editor, Home Wing Newsletter http://www.edt.com/homewing randall(at)edt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 1996
From: Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel gauges, etc.
John Darby wrote: > Jerry, I agree with what you say. I don't remember what brand units I have, > but if they are the same as yours, then either I have bad gauges or > installed/calibrated wrong. My past experience indicates that it is > probably the latter. > If you have time, would you share, either on the list or personnel e-mail, > how you went about the install/calib. so that I might compare and ask > questions? If that part is the same, then maybe I do have a bad set of > gauges and I will change them out. > You are right about learning the individual fuel system, that is what > happened to me when it indicated just below 1/2 and took 18.5 to fill, even > after I thought I had calibrated it correctly. But what the hell, I can > screw up using a wedge!!! > John D > John Darby RV6 N61764 flying > johnd@our-town.com John I did not use any magic I just hooked up the SW gauges and SW senders to a battery while setting up the sending units in the fuel tank and very carefully bent the wires to read full when the sender floats were not quit touching the top of the tanks and to read empty with the sender floats just barely off of the bottom of the tanks. You don't want the floats to touch the bottom of the tanks when empty as there could be some wear on the tank skins at this point. (My opinion anyway) I then flew and run a tank dry to see what the guages read, when they hit empty I could see the fuel presssure start to drop and within a couple min. the engine quit. Did this for each tank. I also filled the tanks to the top and took off on one tank climbed to 5500ft set up cruse and switched tanks and flew for exactly one hr switched tanks again and landed and filled up the tank I flew out of at cruse to get a idea how much fuel burn was at cruse per hr. Maybe I just got lucky but I still rely mostly on the gph and time even with accurate gauges and Matts FuelScan, which is really neat by the way. Sat. I flew and then put in 23 gal., punched in fuel used on the FuelScan and it said 23 gals. Probably telling you stuff you already know and have done but maybe it will help some of the new builders. Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS first flight July 14, 1989 Hillsboro, OR jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 1996
From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net>
Subject: Web site, new pictures
I finally got the new pictures in my project page. The URL is http://ic.net/~patk/rv6a.htm. Man, I'm busy right now! Talk to you all later. PatK - RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: Questions
Date: Aug 08, 1996
"Don't you have a set of the "reduced" preview plans?" There are no preview plans for the RV8. I kept running into questions like "I wonder how this fits on the fuse" and "I wonder if I'm almost done" Even though I'm building an 8, I went and bought a set of preview plans for the RV6. Cost was like $20 or so, and it is well worth it just to get an idea of how the rest of one of these airplanes go together. I know that the details will be different with subsequent kits for the 8, but it sure is fun to look at all the assemblies and imagine them coming together. -Mike ---------- From: edt.com!randall(at)matronics.com[SMTP:edt.com!randall(at)matronics.com] Sent: Thursday, August 08, 1996 3:34 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Questions > 1) The instructions say not to drill the holes in the HS front spar > where ribs HS-404 & -405 will attach. By the time the holes are to be > drilled, the assembly is already riveted together. How do you deburr the > holes then? Or, do you? No need. Standard aircraft practice (and simple practicality) says it is not necessary to debur "faying surfaces" (i.e. between pieces that are pressed and drilled together). There are several places in the project where you run into this. > 2) The instructions refer to DWG 34. It's supposed to contain valuable > information. I can't find any DWG 34. I have DWG 3PP-8PP, but no 34. > Am I missing something? You don't strictly need to see this yet, I didn't look that far ahead when I was building my HS but it could be handy. If you build it to the HS plans then you should be OK, but looking ahead at that drawing will help you see how it attaches to the fuselage so you might avoid any dumb mistakes like drilling holes in the wrong place or making the center angles too short or something, and in general help you get the complete picture. Don't you have a set of the "reduced" preview plans? Randall Henderson, RV-6 Editor, Home Wing Newsletter http://www.edt.com/homewing randall(at)edt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 08, 1996
Subject: Re: introduction
<< though many of the references used have no meaning for me (yet). The RV will be my first exposure to sheetmetal work which I find forbidding. The >> Hi John, welcome to the list. DO NOT worry about sheetmetal. I was scared to death of it and almost went with something "plastic" because of it. Luckily I spoke with some RV'ers before sending my money and they convinced me that sheet metal is not difficult to work with. After the initial learning curve, I liked it a lot better than glass due to the "cleanliness" and temperature tolerance of aluminum. I consider myself of very average mechanical ability and although I ask a LOT of questions (the list can back me up on this ) I haven't run into anything insurmountable. I hope to be flying in about 3 months. Ed Bundy ebundy2620(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Overhauled Engines
>If the engine is comming out of a damaged aircraft ("Crash Site Salvage") you >will want to make sure that the crank flange is within tolerance. Even if >the crank is ok, sudden stoppage of the engine does some very nasty things to >the cam, gears, valves, and more. Do not assume that because the engine has >been overhauled that everything in the engine has been replaced. > >Th best bet on a salvage-recovery-engine is one that came out of a wind >damaged aircraft. Ask the guy at Crash Site Salvage for one of these engines >and don't be surprised if it carries a higher sales price. > >Caveat Emptor > >Gary Corde >RV-6 N211GC Good points, Gary. Have you ever noticed how many "wind damaged" aircraft there are out there? Gosh, doesn't anyone tie their airplanes down anymore? Even if the crank dials OK does not mean that the crank is any good. The crank should be pulled and magnafluxed, etc. and checked for tolerances. Your comments about damage to other engine components are on the money, as well. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: novice Qs
>How might I decide what to build, say RV6 vs Glasair TD or FT? I guess the RV fast build and the Glasair are about the same time to build. I know about the possibility of >allergic reactions to chemicals and the need for a heated shop. Flying haracteristics? >I don't have the Glasair kit price but I guess it's about $5000 more. Other >considerations? > >Is there really something special and good about flying a tail-dragger? I imagine some >car drivers thought badly of cars without timing adjustment on the steering wheel or >the move from tiller to wheel. Is it possible/practical to build an RV6 convertible >from TD to FT? I'm excited to fly a TD but what about resale value vs FT? >I have a headroom issue. At Oshkosh this year I sat in a couple of RV6's, one hinged >and one sliding canopy (Rob Lee's, very nice! Thanks to Greg "it's hot in Houston" >Bordelon for your time.), butt to metal in both cases. The bubble didn't have enough >headroom. I understand they both use the same canopy molding. How much adjustment is >available during trimming? Is empennage blocking an issue? >john(at)mail.hroads.com John, I've built both the Glasair and an RV-6. I feel the RV represents a better value and aluminum is a lot more fun to work with. When working with the vinyl ester resin, you don't want too much heat as it accelerates the curing time. If you're cramped in a RV, I don't see how you could possibly fit in a Glasair. I'm 6' 3 1/2" and, sitting on a 3" foam cushion, still have plenty of room between my headset band and the canopy. I didn't use the seat back angle ajusters. I removed them and the seat back rests on the cross brace behind the seat. This increases head room. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4PatA(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 08, 1996
Subject: Re: Cracks during dimpling
Bill The forward row of holes for the #8 screws in the tanks of the RV-4 are machine countersunk through both skins. The rear row are dimpled. Avery makes a special dimpling tool for tight places like this. It uses a plate nut for the female die, and the male die screws down with an allen head screw. Worked good for me! Pat Allender RV4 Pat A @aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 1996
From: jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino)
Subject: Buying or Selling
Just wanted to let everyone know that I am adding a spot on my page for buying or selling aircraft and related items. Free of course. I will also post pictures if they are submitted. My page is at "http://www.microserve.net/~jcimino/" Jim Cimino RV-8 sn#80039 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 1996
From: Tim Lewis <lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil>
Subject: QB elevators
Rob mentioned: >FYI - regarding the elevators in my quickbuild kit. I contacted Van's about >the problem and they acknowledged some having not been properly constructed. >No questions asked exchange or a credit. I knew I spent my money at the >right place . > >Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com) >Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved Rob, What problems did you notice with your elevators? My elevators look OK, except for some not-so-bad scratches. My vertical stabilizer has big scratches, fairly deep, on both sides. As soon as you get to installing the floor skins, you'll notice that you need some (ten) MS21051-L08 plate nuts (both rivets on the same side of the screw hole). To the best of my knowledge they weren't included in my kit or in the RV-6AQ inventory. Check your kit so you can give Van's a holler if they missed yours too. Tim Lewis RV-6AQ #60023 Lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Aug 08, 1996
Subject: Re: Buying or Selling
>-------------- >Just wanted to let everyone know that I am adding a spot on my page for >buying or selling aircraft and related items. Free of course. I will also >post pictures if they are submitted. My page is at >"http://www.microserve.net/~jcimino/" > >Jim Cimino >RV-8 sn#80039 >-------------- Hi Jim, Definately add a link to the Matronics Web page! Also, in the section on subscribing to the RV-List, you could put a link to the subscription page off the Matronics Homepage. Thanks, Matt -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 1996
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: novice Qs
Bob, I am another tall (6ft 5") person. I would be interested in any other tips that you have for accomodating the vertically gifted. Is leaving the seat back brace out an approved manouvre? I kind of suspect it must be because there are three bits of hinge on my floor but only two positions on the cross member for my brace to slip into. The manual talks about three positions but doesn't provide any hint as to the third. It's just too depressing to think I've done all that work for nothing. Do you fold your brace out of the way or just pull the hinge pin and leave it at home? Leo Davies 6A fiddling with seats. >>How might I decide what to build, say RV6 vs Glasair TD or FT? I guess the >RV fast build and the Glasair are about the same time to build. I know about >the possibility of >>allergic reactions to chemicals and the need for a heated shop. Flying >haracteristics? >>I don't have the Glasair kit price but I guess it's about $5000 more. Other >>considerations? >> >>Is there really something special and good about flying a tail-dragger? I >imagine some >>car drivers thought badly of cars without timing adjustment on the steering >wheel or >the move from tiller to wheel. Is it possible/practical to build >an RV6 convertible >from TD to FT? I'm excited to fly a TD but what about >resale value vs FT? >>I have a headroom issue. At Oshkosh this year I sat in a couple of RV6's, >one hinged >and one sliding canopy (Rob Lee's, very nice! Thanks to Greg >"it's hot in Houston" >Bordelon for your time.), butt to metal in both >cases. The bubble didn't have enough >headroom. I understand they both use >the same canopy molding. How much adjustment is >available during trimming? >Is empennage blocking an issue? > >>john(at)mail.hroads.com > >John, I've built both the Glasair and an RV-6. I feel the RV represents a >better value and aluminum is a lot more fun to work with. When working with >the vinyl ester resin, you don't want too much heat as it accelerates the >curing time. > If you're cramped in a RV, I don't see how you could possibly fit in a >Glasair. I'm 6' 3 1/2" and, sitting on a 3" foam cushion, still have plenty >of room between my headset band and the canopy. I didn't use the seat back >angle ajusters. I removed them and the seat back rests on the cross brace >behind the seat. This increases head room. > Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 1996
From: "Scholl Jon" <scholl.jon(at)smtpgw.bcg.com>
Subject: Fuel gauges, etc.
You wrote: >I then flew and run a tank dry to see what the guages read, when they > hit > empty I could see the fuel presssure start to drop and within a couple > min. > the engine quit. Did this for each tank. Hope you did this in two separate flights :) Jon Scholl scholl.jon(at)bcg.com _______________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel gauges, etc.
> I just hooked up the SW gauges and SW senders >to a battery while setting up the sending units in the fuel tank>and very carefully bent the wires to read full when the sender floats>were not quit touching the top of the tanks and to read empty with the >sender floats just barely off of the bottom of the tanks. You don't>want the floats to touch the bottom of the tanks when empty as there >could be some wear on the tank skins at this point. (My opinion anyway) Did this. Plus having a/c in level att., marking the E reading of needles, 5 gal into each tank, mark 1/4 position of needle etc. > I then flew and run a tank dry to see what the guages read, when they >hit >empty I could see the fuel presssure start to drop and within a couple >min.>the engine quit. Did this for each tank. Didn't do this exactly, just the time it indicated just below 1/2 and took 18.5 to fill. >I also filled the tanks to the top and took off on one tank climbed to >5500ft set up cruse and switched tanks and flew for exactly one hr switched >tanks>again and landed and filled up the tank I flew out of at cruse to get a >idea how much fuel burn was at cruse per hr. Did this, but at 8000 feet. >Maybe I just got lucky but I still rely mostly on the gph and time I sure do this! even>with >accurate gauges and Matts FuelScan, which is really neat by the way. >Sat. I flew and then put in 23 gal., punched in fuel used on the >FuelScan>and it said 23 gals. >Probably telling you stuff you already know and have done but maybe it >will help some of the new builders. > >Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS first flight July 14, 1989 Hillsboro, OR >jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com > Looks like I just have bad gauges or system. Back to the drawing board!! John D John Darby RV6 N61764 flying johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6ator(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 09, 1996
Subject: Re: McCauley Prop
That prop is likely from an old tri pacer or similliar. DO NOT attempt to re-pitch or cut down. These props are tempting to use on RV,s but just hang it on your wall. Bill Mahoney RV-6 N747W #20477 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov>
Subject: Navaid discussion with MIDO
Date: Aug 09, 1996
"different requirements" is an understatement. By design, all of title 14 is very non specific. FAA inspectors have a complete set of operating procedures that provide guidance beyond the FARs. However, if a specific issue is not addressed in their operating procedures, varied interpretation may be expected. Most FAA inspectors have their personal "pet peeves." This applies in operations, airworthiness, and manufacturing. What this really means is it is up to you, the builders and pilots, to insure that you are doing things safely when it comes to issues beyond the scope of title 14 and specific FAA guidance. It also means that if you don't like an answer from one FAA inspector, FSDO, or Region, you probably can get the answer you want if you go to another. I think FAA flight standards works hard to be consistent among offices but it is virtually impossible to address all potential issues procedurally. Some regions, and FSDOs, have a reputation of being more liberal than others. The FAA inspector is not going to be sitting next to you in the cockpit when you find yourself up a $@%&! creek without a paddle. Good judgement and common sense still prevails, even in the FAA, most of the time. Not FAA --------- From: owner-rv-list[SMTP:owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com] Sent: Thursday, August 08, 1996 8:02 PM Subject: RV-List: Navaid discussion with MIDO A post from late last year indicated that a Navaid devices autopilot wouldn't meet the turn coordinator requirments for IFR: > I have certified my RV-6A for IFR operations. When the FAA inspected the > plane for the airworthiness certificate, they stated that all > instumentation required for IFR operation in the FAR's (ie, the turn & > bank) is required have TSO certification. I choose the Centry I wing > leveler for that reason. I suppose you could have a TSO'ed turn & bank AND the Navaid device, but I > would ask somebody who knows more about the legalities... > > Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV S/N 21508 600+ Hrs in 2 Yrs > wstucklen(at)aol.com I got a different reading from the FAA Manufacturing and Inspection District Office (MIDO) here in San Antonio. According to Mr Euler of the San Antonio MIDO, there is no requirment for TSO'd equipment in experimental aircraft unless the TSO is specifically called out in FAR 91. That means, for example, that your ELT must be TSO'd because FAR 91-207 requires a TSO'd ELT. But FAR 91.205 (which specifys that you have a clock, altimeter, oil pressure gauge, gyroscopic turn indicator, etc. etc.) doesn't require TSO'd units. I asked specifically about using the non-TSO'd navaid devices autopilot as my gyro turn indicator to meet the FAR 91-205 requirement for IFR use. Mr Euler said that would be fine. Looks like different FAA offices have different "requirements." Tim Lewis RV-6AQ #60023 drilling the floors/seats lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca
Date: Aug 09, 1996
Subject: Panel Layout (2)
I checked into the Canadian regs and the DG is required for night VFR. I have most of the bits for the vacuum system so it's time bite the bullet and spring for the rest. The plumbing requires a device called a suction regulator valve that is selling for something like 160 USD at ACS. Wag-Aero has an Adjustable Vacuum Control that they sell for 60 USD. Does any body have any experience with this thing or any other sources for the regulator? The 6's that I have seen fly in Ontario have strobes. Usually on the fin tip. David Fried DF-6 C-____ dfried(at)dehavilland.ca ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: RV-List: Panel Layout Date: 8/8/96 07:31 PM I believe the Canadian "night" regulations require both a turn coordinator and a directional gyro. You could go with electrics on both I suppose, or use a small venturi to supply a vacuum DG. Cheaper that way - electric gyros are horribly expensive. One item I am unsure of is the lighting requirement. The only local RV I have seen here has a big ugly, draggy flashing red beacon mounted on top of the fuselage. I would hope that wingtip strobes would be sufficient for anti-collision lighting in Canada. Curt Reimer RV-6 slowly taking shape. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OrndorffG(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 09, 1996
Subject: Re: Questions
Don , Vari prime is a Dupont paint try to find a dupont dealer and see if he can get it for numbers 615 and 616.....George Orndorff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 1996
From: Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.co.intel.com>
Subject: Elevator problems in Quick Build Kits
Text item: A few of the quick build RV-6 kits were accidentally shipped with some empenage components that were not supposed to go to customers. These were the the first ones Van's received when they were trying to get a supplier set up. The workmanship was too poor to send to customers but not bad enough to throw away so they were stuck on a shelf. If anyone received these by mistake (poor riveting, wavy skins, nicks and bends in the hinge cutouts) call Van's and get the right ones. frank(at)ssd.intel.com Text item: External Message Header The following mail header is for administrative use and may be ignored unless there are problems. ***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***. Subject: RV-List: QB elevators From: Tim Lewis <mailcenter.cmet.af.mil!lewis2(at)matronics.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 22:29:55 -0500 (CDT) 4.1) el.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA00976 for Date: Aug 09, 1996
From: "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: QB elevators
>Rob, > >What problems did you notice with your elevators? My elevators look OK, >except for some not-so-bad scratches. My vertical stabilizer has big >scratches, fairly deep, on both sides. > >As soon as you get to installing the floor skins, you'll notice that you >need some (ten) MS21051-L08 plate nuts (both rivets on the same side of >the screw hole). To the best of my knowledge they weren't included in my >kit or in the RV-6AQ inventory. Check your kit so you can give Van's a >holler if they missed yours too. > >Tim Lewis >RV-6AQ #60023 >Lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil > > The elevators were not built to plans (i.e. counterweight skin over elevator skin, etc.), t.e. varying thickness, rivets underdimpled/overdriven causing wavy skins, cutouts bent/nicked. This is *not* a common problem, the errors were discovered in a small batch of empennage parts. I have some of those big scratches you mentioned on my top inboard wing skins, but was assured they are not structural and will dissappear under paint. Hope so. Thanks for the note on the missing plate nuts. I completed my inventory last night and had three extra baggies left over, i'll check what those are tonight. Have you noticed any other discrepancies in your inventory? I have several items missing and was wondering if this is common. Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com) Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 1996
From: Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net>
Subject: Re: Questions
Michael Angiulo wrote: > > "Don't you have a set of the "reduced" preview plans?" > > There are no preview plans for the RV8. I kept running into questions like > "I wonder how this fits on the fuse" and "I wonder if I'm almost done" > > Even though I'm building an 8, I went and bought a set of preview plans for > the RV6. Cost was like $20 or so, and it is well worth it just to get an > idea of how the rest of one of these airplanes go together. I know that > the details will be different with subsequent kits for the 8, but it sure > is fun to look at all the assemblies and imagine them coming together. > > -Mike > > ---------- > From: edt.com!randall(at)matronics.com[SMTP:edt.com!randall(at)matronics.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 08, 1996 3:34 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Questions > > > 1) The instructions say not to drill the holes in the HS front spar > > where ribs HS-404 & -405 will attach. By the time the holes are to be > > drilled, the assembly is already riveted together. How do you deburr the > > holes then? Or, do you? > > No need. Standard aircraft practice (and simple practicality) says > it is not necessary to debur "faying surfaces" (i.e. between pieces > that are pressed and drilled together). There are several places in > the project where you run into this. > > > 2) The instructions refer to DWG 34. It's supposed to contain valuable > > information. I can't find any DWG 34. I have DWG 3PP-8PP, but no 34. > > Am I missing something? > > You don't strictly need to see this yet, I didn't look that far ahead > when I was building my HS but it could be handy. If you build it to the > HS plans then you should be OK, but looking ahead at that drawing will > help you see how it attaches to the fuselage so you might avoid any > dumb mistakes like drilling holes in the wrong place or making the > center angles too short or something, and in general help you get the > complete picture. Don't you have a set of the "reduced" preview plans? > > Randall Henderson, RV-6 > Editor, Home Wing Newsletter > http://www.edt.com/homewing > randall(at)edt.com Oh. OK, that makes sense. Of course, being somewhat dense, it would probably be more confusing to me than most, but might be worth the chance. Thanks, Mike. --Don ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 1996
From: Rick Osgood <rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us>
Subject: Flair tools
I am gettng close to having to create my fuel line fittings and I will need a Flair tool. I have found a tool in one of my local Hardware stores that says used on automotive and many airplanes. The package does not say at what angle the flair is so I am not sure. Can anyone reccomend a flair tool or does any one know if the one I mentioned is likely to work. Thanks Rick Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 1996
From: Gary Standley <Gary_Standley(at)ccm.co.intel.com>
Subject: Questions
Text item: GEE!, WHEN I BOUGHT MY PREVIEW PLANS THEY COST ME $50!! I GOT RIPPED OFF! Michael Angiulo wrote: > > "Don't you have a set of the "reduced" preview plans?" > > There are no preview plans for the RV8. I kept running into questions like > "I wonder how this fits on the fuse" and "I wonder if I'm almost done" > > Even though I'm building an 8, I went and bought a set of preview plans for > the RV6. Cost was like $20 or so, and it is well worth it just to get an > idea of how the rest of one of these airplanes go together. I know that > the details will be different with subsequent kits for the 8, but it sure > is fun to look at all the assemblies and imagine them coming together. > > -Mike > > ---------- > From: edt.com!randall(at)matronics.com[SMTP:edt.com!randall(at)matronics.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 08, 1996 3:34 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Questions > > > 1) The instructions say not to drill the holes in the HS front spar > > where ribs HS-404 & -405 will attach. By the time the holes are to be > > drilled, the assembly is already riveted together. How do you deburr the > > holes then? Or, do you? > > No need. Standard aircraft practice (and simple practicality) says > it is not necessary to debur "faying surfaces" (i.e. between pieces > that are pressed and drilled together). There are several places in > the project where you run into this. > > > 2) The instructions refer to DWG 34. It's supposed to contain valuable > > information. I can't find any DWG 34. I have DWG 3PP-8PP, but no 34. > > Am I missing something? > > You don't strictly need to see this yet, I didn't look that far ahead > when I was building my HS but it could be handy. If you build it to the > HS plans then you should be OK, but looking ahead at that drawing will > help you see how it attaches to the fuselage so you might avoid any > dumb mistakes like drilling holes in the wrong place or making the > center angles too short or something, and in general help you get the > complete picture. Don't you have a set of the "reduced" preview plans? > > Randall Henderson, RV-6 > Editor, Home Wing Newsletter > http://www.edt.com/homewing > randall(at)edt.com Oh. OK, that makes sense. Of course, being somewhat dense, it would probably be more confusing to me than most, but might be worth the chance. Thanks, Mike. --Don Text item: External Message Header The following mail header is for administrative use and may be ignored unless there are problems. ***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***. om> Subject: Re: RV-List: Questions From: Don McNamara <sbt.infi.net!mcnamara(at)matronics.com> Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 09:43:40 -0700 f.intel.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA18369 for Date: Aug 09, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: novice Qs
>Bob, >I am another tall (6ft 5") person. I would be interested in any other tips >that you have for accomodating the vertically gifted. Is leaving the seat >back brace out an approved manouvre? I kind of suspect it must be because >there are three bits of hinge on my floor but only two positions on the >cross member for my brace to slip into. The manual talks about three >positions but doesn't provide any hint as to the third. It's just too >depressing to think I've done all that work for nothing. Do you fold your >brace out of the way or just pull the hinge pin and leave it at home? > >Leo Davies > >> Leo, The third position is when you either raise the brace and let it slide over the top of the cross member or leave it home in the hangar. That's the way I have mine. Look at all of that work as just more 'fun' and 'education'. John Ammeter ammeterj(at)seanet.com 3233 NE 95th St Seattle WA, 98115 USA RV-6 N16JA First flight August 1990 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: introduction
>>Like many others I have been lurking for some time while I tried to decide >>if my attraction to the RV is real love or not. And if so, which model is >>the right one. I like the RV-8 while my wife favors the RV-6 for its SBS >>seating. >Hello John and group, >This is exactly the phase that Dian and I are going through. >I'm going to wimp out and go with the RV-6. >One question that I have not fully resolved is that I'm 6 feet 2 inches tall >and weigh 220 pounds. She is tall and has long legs. I'm a true gentleman of >the South and would never give her weight, but since she weighs only slighly >more than half of what I do I may have to put some depleted Uranium under >her seat to keep the plane from turning left all of the time :-) >Mike Weller WIMP OUT! Mike, you could start a war with that statement:) I think you made the right choice. Believe me, keeping your wife happy through the project is important. She'll be a lot happier sitting next to you instead of behind. In fact, I think any regular passenger would prefer to sit side by side. Plus, the RV-6 is a lot better looking airplane. (Now who's starting a war?) As far a lateral trim is concerned, it does make a slight difference on whether you rig it for just yourself or you and a passenger. Not a big deal. My 6 is rigged for a single (too heavy occupant-me) and if I put in a person who weighs enough on the passenger side, it does affect lateral trim. The Navaid Device's wing leveler trims the plane up nicely in this case. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: novice Qs
>Bob, >I am another tall (6ft 5") person. I would be interested in any other tips >that you have for accomodating the vertically gifted. Is leaving the seat >back brace out an approved manouvre? I kind of suspect it must be because >there are three bits of hinge on my floor but only two positions on the >cross member for my brace to slip into. The manual talks about three >positions but doesn't provide any hint as to the third. It's just too >depressing to think I've done all that work for nothing. Do you fold your >brace out of the way or just pull the hinge pin and leave it at home? > >Leo Davies Leo, I'm sure that the three positions refered to are the seat pan hinges. The cross piece of the 605 is structural, I'm sure. I pulled the pin and just rest the seat back on the cross piece and used thin UHMW tape to protect against abrasion. My seat back is in the rear most position. I think that you might gain a little by using the middle position on the seat bottom. For a thin seat cusion, you might consider "Sunmate" or "Temperfoam", although I didn't find the Temperfoam as comfortable as I thought it would be and put an inch of generic, medium weight foam over the Temperfoam, which helped. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 1996
From: jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino)
Subject: Re: Buying or Selling
Matt, Consider it done. Jim >>-------------- >>Just wanted to let everyone know that I am adding a spot on my page for >>buying or selling aircraft and related items. Free of course. I will also >>post pictures if they are submitted. My page is at >>"http://www.microserve.net/~jcimino/" >> >>Jim Cimino >>RV-8 sn#80039 >>-------------- > >Hi Jim, > >Definately add a link to the Matronics Web page! Also, in the section >on subscribing to the RV-List, you could put a link to the subscription >page off the Matronics Homepage. > >Thanks, > >Matt > > >-- > >Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 >510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email >http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 1996
From: John <john(at)mail.hroads.com>
Subject: Re: novice Qs
Bob Skinner wrote: > John, I've built both the Glasair and an RV-6. I feel the RV represents a > better value and aluminum is a lot more fun to work with. When working with > the vinyl ester resin, you don't want too much heat as it accelerates the > curing time. > If you're cramped in a RV, I don't see how you could possibly fit in a > Glasair. I'm 6' 3 1/2" and, sitting on a 3" foam cushion, still have plenty > of room between my headset band and the canopy. I didn't use the seat back > angle ajusters. I removed them and the seat back rests on the cross brace > behind the seat. This increases head room. > Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net Thanks for the "heads up" on thes subjects Bob! Maybe the Glasair II-S has more headroom than the previoius model. I'm kinda leaning toward an RV right now, partly because of the tremendous on-line support. -- Best Regards, John Bright, Newport News, VA, john(at)mail.hroads.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 1996
From: Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com>
Subject: Re: Flair tools
Rick, I have used both the ROL-AIR and ROL-FLAIR flaring tools (37 deg). I prefer the ROL-AIR tool myself as it is less bulky to handle. The drawback is you have to purchase another flairing block ($20) with the ROL-AIR tool if you want to do your primer/oil pressure/fuel pressure lines (1/8"). I just went ahead and bought the block. Avery, Cleveland, and Aircraft Spruce all sell the tools although AS is the only place I've found the 1/8" block. You'll also need a cutter and tube bender too, these are available at any hardware/plumbing/homebase store. Have fun! :-) Dan Boudro RV-4 N9167Z Albuquerque, NM dboudro(at)nmia.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com>
Subject: introduction
Date: Aug 09, 1996
Hi Mike and Dian, Welcome to the RV-lists and Congradulations on choosing the RV series.......smart buy. Uuuhhhh.....I don't think you ever got around to asking your question. If it is concerning your height and weight??....no problem in the 6 or 6A. Just try one on without any seat cushions before you start thinking about modifications. I am 6' 1.5" tall and weight slightly less than the combined average weight of you and yours (figure that one out). I fit just fine! True gentlemen of the South live South of Interstate 10, know how to peel crawfish and suck the heads..... ;^) Where are you and Dian located Mike? You can contact me of the list if you like. Greg Bordelon greg(at)brokersys.com +++++++++++++++++++++ Hello John and group, This is exactly the phase that Dian and I are going through. I'm going to wimp out and go with the RV-6. One question that I have not fully resolved is that I'm 6 feet 2 inches tall and weigh 220 pounds. She is tall and has long legs. I'm a true gentleman of the South and would never give her weight, but since she weighs only slighly more than half of what I do I may have to put some depleted Uranium under her seat to keep the plane from turning left all of the time :-) My only real problem right now is cleaning out the garage and turning it into a real shop. This, my friends, is not a trivial matter. Mike Weller ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 1996
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: introduction
Mike Weller wrote: > > I'm going to wimp out and go with the RV-6. > What a wimp! Randall Henderson RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 09, 1996
Subject: Re: Flair tools
<< I am gettng close to having to create my fuel line fittings and I will need a Flair tool. I have found a tool in one of my local Hardware stores that says used on automotive and many airplanes. The package does not say at what angle the flair is so I am not sure. Can anyone reccomend a flair tool or does any one know if the one I mentioned is likely to work. >> I must make a confession on this one. I used an automotive flair tool on my RV. However, my entire fuel system (delivery) is made-up of Aeroquip hose. For the vent lines and pitot system (from the pitot tube to the cockpit) I used the tubing and automotive flair without any problems. I would reccomend using Aeroquip or Stratoflex hose for the fuel system because: 1) Less prone to vibration wear. 2) Easyer to route. I tried to use the tube but it drove me crazy. 3) Looks damn good. On the negitive side, its expensive and it adds weight (very little). Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 09, 1996
Subject: Re: Overhauled Engines
<< Tom was advertising 0 SMOH Lycoming O-320 E2D engines for $8700 complete. This included "Mags & New Harness" and he told me it also included a carb. "Add starter and alternator" he told me. He told me he only needed 6 weeks lead time to provide an engine. >> >> This sounds REALLY cheap. I'd ask a lot of questions, and try to contact some people who have utilized this source. ( I realize the latter is what you're doing ) When I was looking for an engine (the last 2 years) I had trouble finding a decent rebuildable CORE for under $6000. That doesn't leave any room to replace everything and make a profit. You can end up spending more to fix a second rate engine (assuming you and the airplane survive) than a new or good rebuild would cost. In order to have an engine built up by a reputable shop with conservative decisions made on what needs to be replaced so that I would feel comfortable staking my life on it, I was looking in the neighborhood of $15K. For the extra $2000, I went with a brand-spaking new one from Van's. Their price is excellent and absolutely unbeatable. I realize this is a considerable sum of money, but my hide is worth a considerable sum to me, and the engine is NOT the place I feel comfortable skimping. I left out the IFR panel and some of the goodies to help pay for the engine. Someday, if necessary, I can always add them. Just my .02, Ed Bundy ebundy2620(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: introduction
Date: Aug 09, 1996
>WIMP OUT! Mike, you could start a war with that statement:) I think you >made the right choice. Believe me, keeping your wife happy through the >project is important. She'll be a lot happier sitting next to you instead >of behind. In fact, I think any regular passenger would prefer to sit side >by side. Plus, the RV-6 is a lot better looking airplane. (Now who's >starting a war?) WHOA, easy tiger! Now who is starting a war? My girlfriend DEMANDED that I forego the side by side seating so she could sit in the back. The SBS reminded her too much of the "Spam" I learn in and she wants me to build a fighter plane. She also loves the bubble canopy and wants 360degree view. Now, I'm not saying the 6 is ugly or anything, as it took me a month to decide on the 8, but I definitely think that not all SO's were created equal as thousands of Harley riders would attest - some like the back seat. (damn. Where is that wing kit. Maybe if I had something to build I wouldn't be fanning Email flames...) On a more serious note, I'm trying to figure out how to set up my shop to start building the wings. Some people seem to want to build both wings at the same time. I assume that means I should construct a second Jig paralell to my first one. How much space do I need between these? I can't imagine it can be any less than 3 feet, but would that work (if both wings were on the outside surfaces of the jigs? -Mike ---------- From: Bob Skinner[SMTP:ltec.net!BSkinner(at)matronics.com] Sent: Friday, August 09, 1996 9:48 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: introduction >>Like many others I have been lurking for some time while I tried to decide >>if my attraction to the RV is real love or not. And if so, which model is >>the right one. I like the RV-8 while my wife favors the RV-6 for its SBS >>seating. >Hello John and group, >This is exactly the phase that Dian and I are going through. >I'm going to wimp out and go with the RV-6. >One question that I have not fully resolved is that I'm 6 feet 2 inches tall >and weigh 220 pounds. She is tall and has long legs. I'm a true gentleman of >the South and would never give her weight, but since she weighs only slighly >more than half of what I do I may have to put some depleted Uranium under >her seat to keep the plane from turning left all of the time :-) >Mike Weller WIMP OUT! Mike, you could start a war with that statement:) I think you made the right choice. Believe me, keeping your wife happy through the project is important. She'll be a lot happier sitting next to you instead of behind. In fact, I think any regular passenger would prefer to sit side by side. Plus, the RV-6 is a lot better looking airplane. (Now who's starting a war?) As far a lateral trim is concerned, it does make a slight difference on whether you rig it for just yourself or you and a passenger. Not a big deal. My 6 is rigged for a single (too heavy occupant-me) and if I put in a person who weighs enough on the passenger side, it does affect lateral trim. The Navaid Device's wing leveler trims the plane up nicely in this case. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bcg007(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 09, 1996
Subject: Left Elevator Q's on RV6
I'm about to build the left elevator. A question: do the stiffners that end at the trim tab spar need to be tapered? I am asuming not, but its unclear to me. Jon Scholl bcg007(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Re: Overhauled Engines
Date: Aug 09, 1996
So, if no one has used one of the engines from Crash Site Salvage, does anyone know about the quality of an engine from Bob Barrows? I think maybe it's time to start investing in lottery tickets or something. Sigh. -J -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037 Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg 6121 St. Croix Ave. N. Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 09, 1996
Subject: Re: Flair tools
<< I am gettng close to having to create my fuel line fittings and I will need a Flair tool. I have found a tool in one of my local Hardware stores that says used on automotive and many airplanes. The package does not say at what angle the flair is so I am not sure. Can anyone reccomend a flair tool or does any one know if the one I mentioned is likely to work. >> I doubt it. The two applications use different angles. I believe it's 37 degrees for aircraft and 45 for auto. An auto tool will make the flair, but you won't be able to get a good seal on it. Check with local builders and see if you might borrow one, that's what I did for the tanks, but when it comes time to plumb the engine, you'll want your own. There is a lot of flairing to do. I bought one from ACS for about $70. That's about as cheap as they go. Ed Bundy ebundy2620(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Re: Left Elevator Q's on RV6
Date: Aug 09, 1996
> I'm about to build the left elevator. A question: do the stiffners that end > at the trim tab spar need to be tapered? I am asuming not, but its unclear > to me. I didn't taper mine. They're only tapered in order to fit at the trailing edge, so it doesn't make sense to taper them. -Joe -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037 Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg 6121 St. Croix Ave. N. Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 09, 1996
Subject: Re: introduction
<< This is exactly the phase that Dian and I are going through. I'm going to wimp out and go with the RV-6. One question that I have not fully resolved is that I'm 6 feet 2 inches tall and weigh 220 pounds. She is tall and has long legs. I'm a true gentleman of >> I was kind of inclined toward the 4 at first too. The wife said "no way" (actually, she was more colorful than that) Considering she allowed the purchase and helped with the construction (I have some GREAT pictures of that!) I conceeded. Not much of a concession though, the 6 has a lot of plusses including room for lots of goodies in the panel. I'm 6'3" and fit very nicely inside. Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 1996
From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net>
Subject: Re: Left Elevator Q's on RV6
aol.com!Bcg007(at)matronics.com wrote: > > I'm about to build the left elevator. A question: do the stiffners that end > at the trim tab spar need to be tapered? I am asuming not, but its unclear > to me. > > Jon Scholl > bcg007(at)aol.com I used a template to make all my stiffeners. When I got to the shortened ones, I took the difference between their real length and the length they'd be if there were no trim tab. Then I marked that difference on my template and placed it on the shortened stiffener with the mark lined up with the end of the stiffener (wish I could show you a picture). I found that the inboard stiffener needed just a slight trim, while the outboard stiffener (of the short ones) required a small diagonal section cut from it. While it is probably not necessary for the finished part, I did not want to make the trailing edge bend and hit those untrimmed corners. PatK - RV-6A - Waiting for small parts. Sigh! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 10, 1996
From: spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com (Stephen Paul Johnson)
Subject: Assembly of HS Skeleton, skinning on pre-punched kits
Hi all, I am at the stage where I am finishing the assembly of my HS skeleton in the jig, and wondering if I could ask if there are any good tricks on lining everything up before drilling my skins to the skeleton. Specifically, I am a little skeptical about using the cutout wood "clothespins" recomended in the instuctions. It is my impression that some of the instructions are left over from earlier days before the pre-punched skins. In thinking about it, it seems to me that one would get a tighter fit by starting at the rear spar and drilling and clecoing parallel to the rear spar, doing both sides, and working up toward the leading edge. I am just at the thinking stage and haven't tried anything yet, but I thought I'd ask for experiences of others. We are getting into the area where the Orndorff video isn't a lot of help because they didn't have the pre-punched skins. I certainly followed the Orndorff technique of assembling the skeleton in the jig using the brackets and the drilled rods to hold everything tight. The instructions from Van's call for assembling the HS skeleton and riveting the front spar to the ribs before the brackets are attached to the jig, which seems to me a more difficult way to go. You can see why I'm a little wary of the instructions and am asking advice. Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom. Steve Johnson RV-8 Deposit down on the wings so I can prime parts before the snow flies ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 10, 1996
From: cesoo(at)primenet.com (Jim Holton)
Subject: RV4 & McMauley Prop
My first time requesting info!! I am building an RV4 with a 0-360A1D engine and attempting to use my Constant Speed McCauley B2D34C2 prop. The spinner plate appears to mount back about 2" aft the location shown in Van's plans, makes the cowl set back about two inches, and causes big cowl trim possibilities that do not seem right. Have any of you done the McCauley "THING" to an RV? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 10, 1996
Subject: Newsletter
I was surprised and pleased to see that The RVator had nice things to say about my newsletter. I work very hard to put out an interesting and entertaining product that is helpful to RV builders. A lot of people, including Tony Bingelis, have told me that they think that it is one of the best newsletters published. That makes it worthwhile for me. Even though the name of the newsletter is Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing, it is not really a local product. It is dedicated to helping you build your RV better and easier, while avoiding the mistakes that I and others have made. I have subscribers all over the world. I also swap newsletters at no cost with any other newsletter editor who wants to. We share the really good ideas with each other and help spread the word to a wider audience. I send a complimentary copy to Ken Scott at Van's, which is probably why he did not know the right price for a subscription. A year's subscription is only $5.00, not the $7.50 noted in the RVator. If any of you sent in the higher amount, I will credit it towards next year or the back issues if you want the 1995 issues, which are now in their 4th printing. Thanks to all of you that I saw at Oshkosh that remarked how much you liked my work. Jim Cone, Editor Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing Newsletter 422 Savannah Ridge Drive St. Charles, MO 63303 (314) 928-8703 jamescone(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EllenLane(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 10, 1996
Subject: Re: novice Qs
although getting design mods out of Van is like asking to pull teeth, I got the impression that removing 1 1/2" out of the seat ribs would be OK. I also removed an inch out of the roll bar web since my head could bang on that. Moving the seat back brace aft was considered but very complicated due to tilt-up latch mechanism location etc... After building a quick plywood mock up I decided I could live with the seat leaning directly on the brace. You will discover as you tilt the seat back the canopy also drops down so no gain. There are ways to also install the canopy a bit higher too. Each mod can gain you enough to get by. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Re: Assembly of HS Skeleton, skinning on pre-punched kits
Date: Aug 10, 1996
> In thinking about it, it seems to me that one would get a tighter fit > by starting at the rear spar and drilling and clecoing parallel to the > rear spar, doing both sides, and working up toward the leading edge. If you do this, then you'll force the skins up, into the leading edge. This can cause your leading edge airfoil to be the wrong shape -- it'll droop a bit in one direction or another. I wasn't be able to get the skins very tight with the wooden "clothespins". In fact, I'm particularily un-enamored with this method. I think if I had seen how the wings were done before doing my empennage, I would have done the same thing you do on the wings -- strapping clamps. So, here is something to consider. Clamp the skin in place with cleco side clamps or something. Then use some wide strapping clamps -- the sort of thing you might use to hold equipment you're hauling in a trailer. Pull things down snug with that. If you use something with a rachet device, you'll be able to pull 'em nice and tight and even. Be careful not to scuff or dent the aluminum. But I wouldn't start drilling/clecoing from the spar forward. You'll chase a bulge into the leading edge rather than out the rear spar. Follow the pattern in the directions -- they're still applicable, pre-punched or otherwise. -Joe -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037 Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg 6121 St. Croix Ave. N. Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Design Mods from Van's
Date: Aug 10, 1996
So, does anyone think we could talk Van into designing a side stick option for the -6 and -6A? My wife really liked that when we saw the Lancair IV-P at Oshkosh. :-) -Joe -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037 Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg 6121 St. Croix Ave. N. Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 10, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: Airplane data
I thought I'd re-post this form for any listers who have flying RV's in case they might be interested in sharing their airplane info with the rest of the group. I have 9 responses in a mailbox. If anyone is interested in what I have to date, E-mail me off list and I'll send them to you. If anyone knows how to send the 9 data sheets all at once, easily, from Eudora, let me know off list, please. Bob Skinner Here is a blank form for entering RV data for flying RV's. Please add anything about your airplane that I may have left out. Hopefully, this will transmit OK and be easy to use. I hope we get some good information that we can all use. Don't forget to delete these paragraphs before re-transmitting. Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- NAME: "N" NUMBER: E-MAIL ADDRESS: MODEL: DATE FINISHED: TOTAL TIME: ENGINE: PROP: CANOPY: STARTER: ALTERNATOR: VOLT. REG.: BATTERY: EXHAUST: ELEVATOR TRIM: FLAPS: BRAKES: TIRE PRESSURE: PANEL: LIGHTING: PAINT: INTERIOR: INSURANCE: OTHER (MISC): PROBLEMS: ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash)
Subject: Re: Flair tools
Date: Aug 10, 1996
It's"flare", Websters: "to curve or speard outwards". "Flair": "A nutural talent or ability, a "knack"...... Automotive and aviation tools use a different flare.... >>I am gettng close to having to create my fuel line fittings and I will >>need a Flair tool. I have found a tool in one of my local Hardware >>stores that says used on automotive and many airplanes. The package does >>not say at what angle the flair is so I am not sure. Can anyone >>reccomend a flair tool or does any one know if the one I mentioned is >>likely to work. >> >>Thanks >>Rick >>Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us >> AIRCRAFT REMANUFACTURING 1291 E. VISTA WAY, #150 VISTA, CA. 92084 (619) 749 0239 FAX: 749 6384 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Lauritsen <clevtool(at)tdsi1.tdsi.net>
Subject: introduction/rv4 wife
Date: Aug 11, 1996
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB871C.4B17B6E0 John C. mentioned his wife preferred RV6 seating. Side by side seating = is quite traditional as in autos. I have flown with my husband in Cubs = and Citabrias and our RV4. We both like flying inline planes. =20 When traveling if one of us notes a point of interest on the ground the = other can view it from the same side of the plane. I find that = difficult while side by side. Keeping watch for air traffic is easy out = of both sides. When in the rear seat I watch the map. I am able to = unfold and fumble with the map without annoying the pilot. Buzz = positioned the flight instruments at the top of the panel so I can see = them from the rear seat. The roll over structure makes a good hand hold = while climbing in and out of the rear seat. We have a voice actuated = intercom system so can converse easily. =20 The RV6 has many attractive features, but if you like the sporty look of = the 4 or 8 don't let inline seating sway your decision. Your wife may = come to enjoy it's advantages. =20 DJ Lauritsen ---------- From: John Ciolino[SMTP:zipnet.net!jbc1(at)matronics.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 1996 3:29 PM Subject: RV-List: introduction Hello RV Listers, Like many others I have been lurking for some time while I tried to = decide if my attraction to the RV is real love or not. And if so, which model = is the right one. I like the RV-8 while my wife favors the RV-6 for its = SBS seating. Made the trip to Oskosh, where I got a chance to sit in the -8 and a -6 = as well as meet Van and listen to his forums. I'm going with the -8 = (there was never real question but I promised my wife I look closely at both). Also promised her I'd paste a picture of my profile on the back of the = front seat to keep her company so she agreed to be a backseater. I live in Bolton, CT right outside of Hartford and currently fly a = Kitfox which I built. I have learned a lot already from all the postings even though many of the references used have no meaning for me (yet). The RV will be my first exposure to sheetmetal work which I find forbidding. = The access to information and the prior experience of other builders = available from this list help me decide I can take on this project. I am sure you = will all hear my cries for help but I hope that someday I will be answering questions rather than asking them.=20 John Ciolino jbc1(at)Zipnet.net Ordering -8 empannage tomorrow =20 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB871C.4B17B6E0 eJ8+IhsFAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AKQDAAACAAAAFAAAAAMAADAFAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAEkAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20AU01UUABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20A AAAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABYAAABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20A AAAeABoAAQAAABQAAABSRVBPUlQuSVBNLk5PVEUuTkRSAEAAMgDgwlqCRYe7AQMABAwAAAAAAwAF DP////8DABUMAAAAEAMA/g8GAAAAHgABEAEAAABEAAAATm8gdHJhbnNwb3J0IHByb3ZpZGVyIHdh cyBhdmFpbGFibGUgZm9yIGRlbGl2ZXJ5IHRvIHRoaXMgcmVjaXBpZW50LgAeAAEwAQAAABgAAAAn cnYtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tJwACAQswAQAAABsAAABTTVRQOlJWLUxJU1RATUFUUk9OSUNT LkNPTQAAAwAAOQAAAAACARI6AQAAAEkAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABydi1saXN0 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From: Mike Lauritsen <clevtool(at)tdsi1.tdsi.net>
Subject: introduction/rv4 wife
Date: Aug 11, 1996
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB871C.94FA8260 John C. mentioned his wife preferred RV6 seating. Side by side seating = is quite traditional as in autos. I have flown with my husband in Cubs = and Citabrias and our RV4. We both like flying inline planes. =20 When traveling if one of us notes a point of interest on the ground the = other can view it from the same side of the plane. I find that = difficult while side by side. Keeping watch for air traffic is easy out = of both sides. When in the rear seat I watch the map. I am able to = unfold and fumble with the map without annoying the pilot. Buzz = positioned the flight instruments at the top of the panel so I can see = them from the rear seat. The roll over structure makes a good hand hold = while climbing in and out of the rear seat. We have a voice actuated = intercom system so can converse easily. =20 The RV6 has many attractive features, but if you like the sporty look of = the 4 or 8 don't let inline seating sway your decision. Your wife may = come to enjoy it's advantages. =20 DJ Lauritsen ---------- From: John Ciolino[SMTP:zipnet.net!jbc1(at)matronics.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 1996 3:29 PM Subject: RV-List: introduction Hello RV Listers, Like many others I have been lurking for some time while I tried to = decide if my attraction to the RV is real love or not. And if so, which model = is the right one. I like the RV-8 while my wife favors the RV-6 for its = SBS seating. Made the trip to Oskosh, where I got a chance to sit in the -8 and a -6 = as well as meet Van and listen to his forums. I'm going with the -8 = (there was never real question but I promised my wife I look closely at both). Also promised her I'd paste a picture of my profile on the back of the = front seat to keep her company so she agreed to be a backseater. I live in Bolton, CT right outside of Hartford and currently fly a = Kitfox which I built. I have learned a lot already from all the postings even though many of the references used have no meaning for me (yet). The RV will be my first exposure to sheetmetal work which I find forbidding. = The access to information and the prior experience of other builders = available from this list help me decide I can take on this project. I am sure you = will all hear my cries for help but I hope that someday I will be answering questions rather than asking them.=20 John Ciolino jbc1(at)Zipnet.net Ordering -8 empannage tomorrow =20 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB871C.94FA8260 eJ8+Ih8FAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AKQDAAACAAAAFAAAAAMAADAFAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAEkAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20AU01UUABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20A AAAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABYAAABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20A AAAeABoAAQAAABQAAABSRVBPUlQuSVBNLk5PVEUuTkRSAEAAMgDgwlqCRYe7AQMABAwAAAAAAwAF DP////8DABUMAAAAEAMA/g8GAAAAHgABEAEAAABEAAAATm8gdHJhbnNwb3J0IHByb3ZpZGVyIHdh cyBhdmFpbGFibGUgZm9yIGRlbGl2ZXJ5IHRvIHRoaXMgcmVjaXBpZW50LgAeAAEwAQAAABgAAAAn cnYtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tJwACAQswAQAAABsAAABTTVRQOlJWLUxJU1RATUFUUk9OSUNT LkNPTQAAAwAAOQAAAAACARI6AQAAAEkAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABydi1saXN0 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Date: Aug 10, 1996
From: sarg314(at)AZStarNet.com (Tom Sargent)
Subject: Enough flying exp. to build?
The ink is still drying on my private pilot certificate. My question to the listers is, how much flying experience do you think a person should have before he starts a homebuilt project? I've been entranced by the RVs since the first time I went to OSH in 1991. I've been a subscriber to the list for many months. The possibility that I could ultimately fly an RV is much of what got me started learning to fly in the first place. Cessna 150s are probably the greatest trainer ever, but they're pretty dull airplanes. I have to decide what to do next in flying. The logical thing is to get checked out in a C-172 - the Chevy Nova of aircraft. A Grumman Tiger would get me pretty interested, but there don't seem to be any in the vicinity. (It doesn't help that my instructor keeps telling me about the time he got to fly an RV-4, which generally involves words like "rocket" and "hot rod".) Maybe I should just go to Van's and take a ride to get it out of my system. I'm 48 years old. I've got the money to build a plane (I'm single), though I'm pretty short in the time and space departments. Needless to say my total flying experience is pretty minimal - limited to 4 or 5 cross countries, a LOT of trips to the South Practice Area and about a billion touch-and-goes at Tucson Int'l. So, any opinions? Is there anybody out there who started a project when he was in my delicate condition? --- Tom Sargent, Tucson, AZ, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Lauritsen <clevtool(at)tdsi1.tdsi.net>
Subject: introduction/rv4 wife
Date: Aug 11, 1996
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB871C.B99C8FA0 John C. mentioned his wife preferred RV6 seating. Side by side seating = is quite traditional as in autos. I have flown with my husband in Cubs = and Citabrias and our RV4. We both like flying inline planes. =20 When traveling if one of us notes a point of interest on the ground the = other can view it from the same side of the plane. I find that = difficult while side by side. Keeping watch for air traffic is easy out = of both sides. When in the rear seat I watch the map. I am able to = unfold and fumble with the map without annoying the pilot. Buzz = positioned the flight instruments at the top of the panel so I can see = them from the rear seat. The roll over structure makes a good hand hold = while climbing in and out of the rear seat. We have a voice actuated = intercom system so can converse easily. =20 The RV6 has many attractive features, but if you like the sporty look of = the 4 or 8 don't let inline seating sway your decision. Your wife may = come to enjoy it's advantages. =20 DJ Lauritsen ---------- From: John Ciolino[SMTP:zipnet.net!jbc1(at)matronics.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 1996 3:29 PM Subject: RV-List: introduction Hello RV Listers, Like many others I have been lurking for some time while I tried to = decide if my attraction to the RV is real love or not. And if so, which model = is the right one. I like the RV-8 while my wife favors the RV-6 for its = SBS seating. Made the trip to Oskosh, where I got a chance to sit in the -8 and a -6 = as well as meet Van and listen to his forums. I'm going with the -8 = (there was never real question but I promised my wife I look closely at both). Also promised her I'd paste a picture of my profile on the back of the = front seat to keep her company so she agreed to be a backseater. I live in Bolton, CT right outside of Hartford and currently fly a = Kitfox which I built. I have learned a lot already from all the postings even though many of the references used have no meaning for me (yet). The RV will be my first exposure to sheetmetal work which I find forbidding. = The access to information and the prior experience of other builders = available from this list help me decide I can take on this project. I am sure you = will all hear my cries for help but I hope that someday I will be answering questions rather than asking them.=20 John Ciolino jbc1(at)Zipnet.net Ordering -8 empannage tomorrow =20 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB871C.B99C8FA0 eJ8+IiAFAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AKQDAAACAAAAFAAAAAMAADAFAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAEkAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20AU01UUABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20A AAAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABYAAABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20A AAAeABoAAQAAABQAAABSRVBPUlQuSVBNLk5PVEUuTkRSAEAAMgDgwlqCRYe7AQMABAwAAAAAAwAF DP////8DABUMAAAAEAMA/g8GAAAAHgABEAEAAABEAAAATm8gdHJhbnNwb3J0IHByb3ZpZGVyIHdh cyBhdmFpbGFibGUgZm9yIGRlbGl2ZXJ5IHRvIHRoaXMgcmVjaXBpZW50LgAeAAEwAQAAABgAAAAn cnYtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tJwACAQswAQAAABsAAABTTVRQOlJWLUxJU1RATUFUUk9OSUNT LkNPTQAAAwAAOQAAAAACARI6AQAAAEkAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABydi1saXN0 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From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 10, 1996
Subject: Re: McCauley Prop
A guy named Chris Kenyon in Concord, CA is using the McCauley constant speed on an RV-6 with, I think, an O-360. Is this the kind you are referring to? Van's can probably give you Chris's address. -GV Vanremog(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 10, 1996
Subject: Re: Slow leaking Tire Tubes
Have any of you folks experienced any problems with your tire tubes? Are they all just naturally slow leakers or did I get the slow leaker option without paying for it. Are these maybe the "quick build" tubes? I lose all the air in about 1 month. I removed the front tire and unmounted it, thinking that I might have caught the tube in the wheel split. No dice. I inflated just the tube and held it under water for about 5 minutes and found no air leaks in the rubber or any leaky valve. The nosedragger wheel uses a Cheng Shin tube but I don't think the mains are from the same manufacturer. Is this rubber really porous to air (like a balloon) or is the air doing some kind of entropy thing here? Is there a worm hole in the vicinity of my gear? Maybe I'm just spoiled with all of the tubeless tires I have on all the rest of my toys. Help. Gary VanRemortel N1GV (RV-6A on gear, ready to hang engine) Vanremog(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 1996
From: boatright thomas reginald <trboatri(at)ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: Enough flying exp. to build?
I had completed my tail section and was heavy into the wings before I took my first flying lesson.. Jump in, the water is not too deep. On Sat, 10 Aug 1996, Tom Sargent wrote: > The ink is still drying on my private pilot certificate. My > question to the listers is, how much flying experience do you think a > person should have before he starts a homebuilt project? > > I've been entranced by the RVs since the first time I went to OSH > in 1991. I've been a subscriber to the list for many months. The > possibility that I could ultimately fly an RV is much of what got me > started learning to fly in the first place. Cessna 150s are probably the > greatest trainer ever, but they're pretty dull airplanes. > > I have to decide what to do next in flying. The logical thing is > to get checked out in a C-172 - the Chevy Nova of aircraft. A Grumman > Tiger would get me pretty interested, but there don't seem to be any in the > vicinity. (It doesn't help that my instructor keeps telling me about the > time he got to fly an RV-4, which generally involves words like "rocket" > and "hot rod".) Maybe I should just go to Van's and take a ride to get it > out of my system. > > I'm 48 years old. I've got the money to build a plane (I'm single), > though I'm pretty short in the time and space departments. Needless to say > my total flying experience is pretty minimal - limited to 4 or 5 cross > countries, a LOT of trips to the South Practice Area and about a billion > touch-and-goes at Tucson Int'l. > > So, any opinions? Is there anybody out there who started a project > when he was in my delicate condition? > > --- > Tom Sargent, Tucson, AZ, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: frankv(at)pec.co.nz
Date: Aug 11, 1996
Subject: Re: Assembly of HS Skeleton, skinning on pre-punched kits
In , on 08/10/96 at 04:01 PM, showpg.mn.org!jpl(at)matronics.com (Joe Larson) said: >> In thinking about it, it seems to me that one would get a tighter fit >> by starting at the rear spar and drilling and clecoing parallel to the >> rear spar, doing both sides, and working up toward the leading edge. >If you do this, then you'll force the skins up, into the leading edge. >This can cause your leading edge airfoil to be the wrong shape -- it'll >droop a bit in one direction or another. I think the issue is more to do with trapping a bulge between the ribs, than between the spars, or at the leading edge. I mean, the ribs don't even go right into the front of the skins, so there's some scope there for the skin to sag or move round a little. The drilling order is to go up the centre rib, then outwards along the spar. Remember, any sag/bulge between ribs will also change the airfoil. >I wasn't be able to get the skins very tight with the wooden >"clothespins". In fact, I'm particularily un-enamored with this method. >I think if I had seen how the wings were done before doing my empennage, >I would have done the same thing you do on the wings -- strapping clamps. I agree... the clothespins didn't do much for me. >So, here is something to consider. Clamp the skin in place with cleco >side clamps or something. Then use some wide strapping clamps -- the >sort of thing you might use to hold equipment you're hauling in a >trailer. Pull things down snug with that. If you use something with a >rachet device, you'll be able to pull 'em nice and tight and even. Be >careful not to scuff or dent the aluminum. I have some 'trailer tie-downs'. They're nylon tape, with a ratchet on it. Sounds like it might be ideal. Be careful with these, as it's easy to put a *lot* of force onto what you're tying down. I'd say you could crush an HS rib. Frank. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- frankv(at)pec.co.nz ----------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 1996
From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net>
Subject: Re: Enough flying exp. to build?
Tom Sargent wrote: > > The ink is still drying on my private pilot certificate. My > question to the listers is, how much flying experience do you think a > person should have before he starts a homebuilt project? > > I've been entranced by the RVs since the first time I went to OSH > in 1991. I've been a subscriber to the list for many months. The > possibility that I could ultimately fly an RV is much of what got me > started learning to fly in the first place. Cessna 150s are probably the > greatest trainer ever, but they're pretty dull airplanes. > > I have to decide what to do next in flying. The logical thing is > to get checked out in a C-172 - the Chevy Nova of aircraft. A Grumman > Tiger would get me pretty interested, but there don't seem to be any in the > vicinity. (It doesn't help that my instructor keeps telling me about the > time he got to fly an RV-4, which generally involves words like "rocket" > and "hot rod".) Maybe I should just go to Van's and take a ride to get it > out of my system. > > I'm 48 years old. I've got the money to build a plane (I'm single), > though I'm pretty short in the time and space departments. Needless to say > my total flying experience is pretty minimal - limited to 4 or 5 cross > countries, a LOT of trips to the South Practice Area and about a billion > touch-and-goes at Tucson Int'l. > > So, any opinions? Is there anybody out there who started a project > when he was in my delicate condition? > > --- > Tom Sargent, Tucson, AZ, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com I've been planning to build a Fokker Triplane for years before I got my license. Of course, flying was a secondary concern with this project. However, once I started flying, I decided I first want to build something I'd like to fly around in. After you check out in a few different aircraft, you will have a little feel for what it will be like to step up to an RV. However, I would suggest you get time in a complex aircraft (Cessna 172RG or some such) or better still, get your multi-engine rating. Not only will you get a feel for more performance, you'll get some thorough systems and aerodynamics training. You'll also get the confidence that you'll be able to handle an RV. We already know you can, but it helps to see for yourself. Many pilots find it hard to keep current while building. Time and cost seem to disappear into the shop. So even experienced pilots will usually require a refresher before they climb into anything, much less their brand new homebuilt. As a last note, Van's has a pilot who does checkout instruction in the RV-6. In some cases, you can find a local willing to do the same thing. Since no two RVs are alike, this is of limited usefulness, but it will get you used to the aerodynamic feel. Hope this helps. PatK - RV-6A - 200+ hours PSMEL, with comm. and inst. writtens passed ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Aug 11, 1996
Subject: introduction/rv4 wife
>When traveling if one of us notes a point of interest on the ground the other can view it from the same side of the plane. I find that difficult while side by side. Keeping watch for air traffic is easy out of both sides. When in the rear seat I watch the map. I am able to unfold and fumble with the map without annoying the pilot. Buzz positioned the flight instruments at the top of the panel so I can see them from the rear seat. The roll over structure makes a good hand hold while climbing in and out of the rear seat. We have a voice actuated intercom system so can converse easily. > >The RV6 has many attractive features, but if you like the sporty look of the 4 or 8 don't let inline seating sway your decision. Your wife may come to enjoy it's advantages. > Not only does DJ make nice seats, she knows what she is talking about. My wife originally balked at the inline seating. Now she likes it for the very reasons DJ mentions. I use an extra cushion for the back so she can see over my shoulder and it works fine. I have installed a throttle and trim for the back seat and she can land the airplane if she has to. The view out of the 4 canopy is great! Lets be realistic.....most of the time alot of us fly the other seat is empty. I'd rather the empty one be behind me not next to me. I do the typical aerobatics and centerline seating is where I want to be. Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying 2 years ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 1996
From: chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net>
Subject: Rudder Pedal Placement
Hey guys, I'm attempting to establish rudder pedal placement in my 6A. If I set the pedal assembly forward so as to minimally clear my prop governor/oil filter firewall recess (purchased from Vans), will I have sufficient clearance between the pedal and firewall. If no one can help with above, would someone tell me the max forward movement of either pedal before max rudder deflection is achieved. thanks, chet razer (sitting in cockpit) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 11, 1996
Subject: Re: introduction
<< On a more serious note, I'm trying to figure out how to set up my shop to start building the wings. Some people seem to want to build both wings at the same time. I assume that means I should construct a second Jig paralell to my first one. How much space do I need between these? I can't imagine it can be any less than 3 feet, but would that work (if both wings were on the outside surfaces of the jigs? >> There's quite a bit of debate on this. The more space in between, the better, because those skins are big and unweildy, and they have to go on and off quite a few times. I have heard of as little as 24", but I'd think that's pretty cramped. The other point is that while it's faster to figure out a certain step and do it on one wing, then repeat it on the other wing; it also makes it a lot easier to make the same mistake on BOTH wings. Caveat Emptor. Ed Bundy ebundy2620(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 1996
From: MiDiBu <midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com>
Subject: introduction/rv4 wife
>John C. mentioned his wife preferred RV6 seating. Side by side seating is quite traditional as in autos. I have flown with my husband in Cubs and Citabrias and our RV4. We both like flying inline planes. > >When traveling if one of us notes a point of interest on the ground the other can view it from the same side of the plane. I find that difficult while side by side. Keeping watch for air traffic is easy out of both sides. What a nice way to look at it (no pun intended). My wife and I are still in the critical stage of deciding which plane to build. I had never really thought about it that way. I'm wondering, is the -8 quick build support going to be as good as the -6? The reason that I'm concerned about that is that there are a few critical components that someone can produce with much better workmanship in a production environment than I can do with trial and error. Thanks, Mike and Dian Weller ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Aug 11, 1996
Subject: Re: Enough flying exp. to build?
> > > I had completed my tail section and was heavy into the wings before >I took my first flying lesson.. Jump in, the water is not too deep. > >On Sat, 10 Aug 1996, Tom Sargent wrote: > >> The ink is still drying on my private pilot certificate. My >> question to the listers is, how much flying experience do you think a >> person should have before he starts a homebuilt project? >> Sorry Guys, I don't totally agree. The RV series are High Performance aircraft. Faster than most single G.A. aircraft and some twins. True they don't land at 100 knots and stall fairly slowly but they are also sensitive and slick. When you point them down hill they accelerate quickly. IMHO it is not a beginner airplane. There was a low time RV-4 builder in my area that killed himself and his wife due to pilot error a few years ago. The airplane got ahead of him and he lost it. When you get yours finished you have to "shake it down" during the test period and if you have little experience both the airplane and the pilot will be in virgin teritory. I would suggest that you get training in high performance airplanes and maintain proficiency while you build. Not a particularly easy task while you spend 2000+ hours building....... Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying 2 years ________________________________________________________________________________
From: frankv(at)pec.co.nz
Date: Aug 12, 1996
Subject: introduction/rv4 wife
>I'm wondering, is the -8 quick build support going to be as good as >the -6? >The reason that I'm concerned about that is that there are a few >critical components that someone can produce with much better >workmanship in a production environment than I can do with trial and >error. They *can* do it better, but it doesn't have to be that way. When you are building, you have control of the quality & workmanship. If it ain't right, you can redo it. Although he has better tools & skills, a production worker is under time/money pressure to do it adequately instead of perfectly. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass; Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read". PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!" http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ | -------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AHanna2(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 11, 1996
Subject: Re: Assembly of HS Skeleton, skinning on pre-punched kits
<< In thinking about it, it seems to me that one would get a tighter fit by starting at the rear spar and drilling and clecoing parallel to the rear spar, doing both sides, and working up toward the leading edge. >> I think this will work very well for you. If the skin is pulled down tight with straps, similar to the wing, you may be left with a bulge in the skin. The people that suggested using a lot of force to pull down the skin probably do not realize that the rear spar and the skin are match drilled (punched), so the fit of the skin over the nose ribs was predetermined by us at the factory. Andy Ahanna2(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 1996
From: boatright thomas reginald <trboatri(at)ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: Enough flying exp. to build?
Perhaps I should clarify myself. My answer was in regards to being able to successfully build a good airplane without first being a pilot. As for myself and flying, I am in the process of purchasing an AcrosportII. With the help of a qualified instructor I will further my abilities before flying my dream machine. (ie 2yrs. to go) On Sun, 11 Aug 1996 one.net!rust47rg(at)matronics.com wrote: > > > > > > I had completed my tail section and was heavy into the wings before > >I took my first flying lesson.. Jump in, the water is not too deep. > > > >On Sat, 10 Aug 1996, Tom Sargent wrote: > > > >> The ink is still drying on my private pilot certificate. My > >> question to the listers is, how much flying experience do you think a > >> person should have before he starts a homebuilt project? > >> > > Sorry Guys, I don't totally agree. The RV series are High Performance > aircraft. Faster than most single G.A. aircraft and some twins. True they > don't land at 100 knots and stall fairly slowly but they are also sensitive > and slick. When you point them down hill they accelerate quickly. IMHO it > is not a beginner airplane. There was a low time RV-4 builder in my area > that killed himself and his wife due to pilot error a few years ago. The > airplane got ahead of him and he lost it. > > When you get yours finished you have to "shake it down" during the test > period and if you have little > experience both the airplane and the pilot will be in virgin teritory. > > I would suggest that you get training in high performance airplanes and > maintain proficiency while you build. Not a particularly easy task while > you spend 2000+ hours building....... > > Rusty Gossard > N47RG RV-4 Flying 2 years > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Aug 11, 1996
Subject: introduction/rv4 wife
>The reason that I'm concerned about that is that there are a few critical >components that someone can produce with much better workmanship in a >production environment than I can do with trial and error. > >Thanks, > >Mike and Dian Weller > Mike: No Way! If there was anything questionable it didn't stay on my airplane. Period. The guy who bangs the quick builds together isn't riding in them. I'd be willing to bet most guys that build their airplanes feel the same way. As far as I know there has never been a 4 or 6 come apart due to structural failure. Furthermore, even with a quickbuild you still have alot of work that requires quality workmanship on the systems and finishing. Some would say thats the hardest part. Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: Slow leaking Tire Tubes
>Have any of you folks experienced any problems with your tire tubes? Are >they all just naturally slow leakers or did I get the slow leaker option >without paying for it. Are these maybe the "quick build" tubes? > >I lose all the air in about 1 month. I removed the front tire and unmounted >it, thinking that I might have caught the tube in the wheel split. No dice. > I inflated just the tube and held it under water for about 5 minutes and >found no air leaks in the rubber or any leaky valve. > > >Gary VanRemortel >N1GV (RV-6A on gear, ready to hang engine) >Vanremog(at)aol.com > > I find that the air pressure will drop from 35 to 20 PSI in about 2 to 3 months. The only guess that I have is that there is much more surface area per volume in an aircraft tire than there is in an automobile tire. If anyone else has an answer I'd be interested in hearing it. John Ammeter ammeterj(at)seanet.com 3233 NE 95th St Seattle WA, 98115 USA RV-6 N16JA First flight August 1990 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: Enough flying exp. to build?
> The ink is still drying on my private pilot certificate. My >question to the listers is, how much flying experience do you think a >person should have before he starts a homebuilt project? > > > > So, any opinions? Is there anybody out there who started a project >when he was in my delicate condition? > >--- >Tom Sargent, Tucson, AZ, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com > > > > John Sturgis of the Puget Sound RVators started his RV-4 without any PPL at all. In fact, I don't think he has his certificate yet. He's been flying his RV-4 for a few months now all around the Puget Sound area. He did have extensive experience in ultralights and took some instruction from a flight instructor before flying his RV-4. When the flight instructor felt that John was ready he signed him off to fly the -4 and build time. Personally, I had only 90 hours in my logbook when I flew my -6 for the first time. Go for it. John Ammeter ammeterj(at)seanet.com 3233 NE 95th St Seattle WA, 98115 USA RV-6 N16JA First flight August 1990 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: av8r(at)hic.net
Date: Aug 11, 1996
Subject: Re: Enough flying exp. to build?
> The ink is still drying on my private pilot certificate. My >question to the listers is, how much flying experience do you think a >person should have before he starts a homebuilt project? <> Well, for my $0.02 I wouldn't start to build until you get as much time in as I had - about 20 hours or so if I remember correctly!!! I got my private about the same time that I got the wing kit, and then did not fly other than for 3 hours or so until I got the plane completed - NOT a good idea... I had someone else do the test flight and give me 10 hrs of dual before I turned myself loose... - GOOD idea. The 6a that I have is not difficult to fly but it is sure different to the spam-cans that we traditionally learn in. You can go around the whole pattern in an RV in less time than it takes to climb out to crosswind in a C-150!! - Yup it's a quick bird - dont let it get slow on you... I honestly do not think it matters how many hours you have when you start to build... you dont even need a bunch of hours to sit in the half assembled fuselage and make rat-tat-tat-tat noises. It does matter however how current you are when you finish.... If youse ain't real current, get some help. I recommend Mike Seger up at Van's, or Mark Frederick down here in Texas - give me a call if you need more info... Now, -- whatcha waiting for..GET BUILDING !! Best regards Rob Lee - av8r(at)hic.net now 85 hrs Total time as pilot & fully paid up Oshkosh vet. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: av8r(at)hic.net
Date: Aug 11, 1996
Subject: Re: Slow leaking Tire Tubes
>Have any of you folks experienced any problems with your tire tubes? >Are they all just naturally slow leakers or did I get the slow >leaker option without paying for it. Are these maybe the "quick >build" tubes? I have the same problem - slow leaks from the valves it is... - I dont use the dust caps cos they are a pain in the ass to go on and off with the pants, so - I guess I'll live with it. Don't feel like the lone ranger - It's just the plane's way of asking for attention Methinks. Regards, Rob Lee av8r(at)hic.net RV6A - N517RL - Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 1996
From: Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com>
Subject: Re: Enough flying exp. to build?
> > I had completed my tail section and was heavy into the wings before > >I took my first flying lesson.. Jump in, the water is not too deep. I have to jump in here and try to bring back all the no pilot time and low time pilots that may be scared away by the remarks made below I will start out by saying I have been instructing for 20 years and have checked quite a few pilots out in prep. for their first RV flight. and do totally agree with the statement made above. I have a friend that had never had a flying lesson till he finished his T-18 and then learned to fly it and has never flown another airplane even takeing his check ride in the T-18. > > >> The ink is still drying on my private pilot certificate. My >> question to the listers is, how much flying experience do you think a >> person should have before he starts a homebuilt project? If you have a new pp certificate you have enough experience to start your project, you probably would want to go with the RV-6A because it has the advantage in the ground handling department, also as Rusty states below you would want to keep up with your flying skills. >> > > Sorry Guys, I don't totally agree. The RV series are High Performance > aircraft. Faster than most single G.A. aircraft and some twins. True they > don't land at 100 knots and stall fairly slowly but they are also sensitive > and slick. When you point them down hill they accelerate quickly. IMHO it > is not a beginner airplane. There was a low time RV-4 builder in my area > that killed himself and his wife due to pilot error a few years ago. The > airplane got ahead of him and he lost it. Not knowing what the situation was I can't say if it was lack of experience or not, but I know of some very high time pilots have killed themselves by flying the airplane out side of the design limatation or flying into IMC, they had the experience and should have know better. >When you get yours finished you have to "shake it down" during the test > period and if you have little experience both the airplane and the >pilot will be in virgin teritory. I am not sure what "shake it down" means but with proper training before the first flight, the first flight and testing should not be any more difficult than any other flight. There probably is a higher degree of risk on the first flight and if you don't feel comfortable doing the first flight and flying the testing period get someone expeienced to do it for you. > > I would suggest that you get training in high performance airplanes and > maintain proficiency while you build. Not a particularly easy task while > you spend 2000+ hours building....... I would suggest anyone low time or high time continue to develope your flying skills while building and if you can get high performance time great if not continue flying what you have. RV'S ARE NOT HARD AIRPLANES TO FLY OR LEARN TO FLY, AND WE "ALL" NEED TO FLY CAREFULLY AND SAFELY. > > Rusty Gossard > N47RG RV-4 Flying 2 years I am sure I will hear more on this subject pro and con but I don't think anyone should be afraid of the RV experience because of lack of experience, BTW I just checked out a little over a hundred hr pilot 2 weeks ago that that just made his first flight in his 180hp CS RV-4 and yesterday went out and showed both Dick V in the RV-8 and Jerry V in his RV-4 the back side of his RV-4 flat out, really fast RV-4 due to cooling baffeling I think similer to Dave Anders RV-4. Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 Hillsboro, OR jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 12, 1996
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: novice Qs
>>Bob, >>I am another tall (6ft 5") person. I would be interested in any other tips >>that you have for accomodating the vertically gifted. Is leaving the seat >>back brace out an approved manouvre? I kind of suspect it must be because >>there are three bits of hinge on my floor but only two positions on the >>cross member for my brace to slip into. The manual talks about three >>positions but doesn't provide any hint as to the third. It's just too >>depressing to think I've done all that work for nothing. Do you fold your >>brace out of the way or just pull the hinge pin and leave it at home? >> >>Leo Davies > >Leo, I'm sure that the three positions refered to are the seat pan hinges. >The cross piece of the 605 is structural, I'm sure. I pulled the pin and >just rest the seat back on the cross piece and used thin UHMW tape to >protect against abrasion. My seat back is in the rear most position. I >think that you might gain a little by using the middle position on the seat >bottom. For a thin seat cusion, you might consider "Sunmate" or >"Temperfoam", although I didn't find the Temperfoam as comfortable as I >thought it would be and put an inch of generic, medium weight foam over the >Temperfoam, which helped. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net > > Bob, Thanks, The reference to "seat back brace" was a slip of the keyboard, I was referring to the bracket that maintains the seat back out from the 605 bulkhead, not the cross-piece of 605 itself. Did you use the raised canopy position for the slider? An earlier posting referred to this as a major headache in construction. Leo Davies leo(at)icn.su.oz.au ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 11, 1996
Subject: Re: Enough flying exp. to build?
<< I'm 48 years old. I've got the money to build a plane (I'm single), though I'm pretty short in the time and space departments. Needless to say my total flying experience is pretty minimal - limited to 4 or 5 cross countries, a LOT of trips to the South Practice Area and about a billion touch-and-goes at Tucson Int'l. >> Hi Tom, You really don't need much flying time in order to build an aircraft. You'll want some before you FLY it, but it sounds like you're already headed down the right road there. If you have more money than time, I'd reccomend going with the new quick-build kit for the 6/6A. It will save you somewhere in the area of 800-1000hrs. As far as when, the sooner you start, the sooner you'll finish! Lots of people have built these things with some pretty dire circumstances. The main thing you need is desire. Do it! Ed Bundy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Slow leaking Tire Tubes
>Have any of you folks experienced any problems with your tire tubes? Are >they all just naturally slow leakers or did I get the slow leaker option >without paying for it. Gary: Mine leak down over 2-3 months (40to 20). It worried me at first. But I've been told by 3 or 4 FBOs that it is because they are natural rubber tubes, and that nat. rubber 'seeps' the pressure. I keep valve caps on etc., but they do require filling about each 2 months. Now as for as within one month or so, don't know about that. John D John Darby RV6 N61764 flying johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 1996
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Airplane data
Bob------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >NAME: John Darby >"N" NUMBER: N61764 >E-MAIL ADDRESS: johnd@our-town.com >MODEL: RV6 >DATE FINISHED: 24 March 1994 >TOTAL TIME: 148 hours >ENGINE: Lyc 0-320 E2D >PROP: Sensinich 70/78 >CANOPY: tilt >STARTER:that guy from OK., Landoll? >ALTERNATOR: Ford >VOLT. REG.: Ford >BATTERY:wheel chair gelcell >EXHAUST:High Country >ELEVATOR TRIM:manual >FLAPS:elec >BRAKES:single TIRE PRESSURE:40 >PANEL:full > > >LIGHTING:single strobe, Duckworth landing >PAINT:acrylic enamel (Centari) > >INTERIOR: Laurenstien > >INSURANCE: liability only > >OTHER (MISC): > > >PROBLEMS:deciding when I am 'finished' with it. There is always something to add on. > > > John Darby RV6 N61764 flying johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 1996
From: MiDiBu <midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Enough flying exp. to build?
>> So, any opinions? Is there anybody out there who started a project >>when he was in my delicate condition? >> >>--- >>Tom Sargent, Tucson, AZ, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com >Personally, I had only 90 hours in my logbook when I flew my -6 for the >first time. > >Go for it. > >John Ammeter What a breath of fresh air! I do feel that a person who can build an airplane has demonstrated the ability to know what it takes to fly an airplane. However, don't let it bite you. There is a lot to learn and experience. First of all, in my opinion, would be cross wind landings. Once you learn the mechanics of it, you can land in a hurricane (but not a tornado). Mr. Ammeter said it well, "Go for it!" I'm an experienced flight instructor. Let me (and us in the group) know if you have any questions. Mike and Dian Weller ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 12, 1996
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Flair tools
rats..... I thought I had found something to increase my flair. ld At 11:26 PM 10/8/96 GMT, you wrote: >It's"flare", Websters: "to curve or speard outwards". "Flair": "A >nutural talent or ability, a "knack"...... >Automotive and aviation tools use a different flare.... > > > >>>I am gettng close to having to create my fuel line fittings and I will >>>need a Flair tool. I have found a tool in one of my local Hardware >>>stores that says used on automotive and many airplanes. The package does >>>not say at what angle the flair is so I am not sure. Can anyone >>>reccomend a flair tool or does any one know if the one I mentioned is >>>likely to work. >>> >>>Thanks >>>Rick >>>Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us >>> > >AIRCRAFT REMANUFACTURING >1291 E. VISTA WAY, #150 >VISTA, CA. 92084 (619) 749 0239 FAX: 749 6384 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 11, 1996
Subject: Re: Slow leaking Tire Tubes
Check to make sure that the valve is seated tightly. Jim Cone ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EllenLane(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 12, 1996
Subject: unsuscribe
unsuscribe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 1996
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net>
Subject: Re: novice Qs
>Bob, >Thanks, >The reference to "seat back brace" was a slip of the keyboard, I was >referring to the bracket that maintains the seat back out from the 605 >bulkhead, not the cross-piece of 605 itself. Did you use the raised canopy >position for the slider? An earlier posting referred to this as a major >headache in construction. >Leo Davies > >leo(at)icn.su.oz.au Leo, My RV-6 has the tilt-up canopy. I didn't intentionally raise the canopy because after sitting in a few RV-6's, I didn't think it was necessary. Bob Skinner ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 12, 1996
From: HBenjamin(at)gnn.com (Harold Benjamin)
Subject: Re: McCauley Prop
My thanks to the folks who responded to my question! Think I'll hang on to it for now. Maybe it'll be good for a trade in when the time comes for me to purchase a new prop. If not, I guess it would look fairly groovey hangin on the wall. Hal Benjamin Tallahassee, FL RV-4 Tank building ><< McCauley, Kliptip, Met-L-Prop, Design #1A105, Scm 7154, TC.918, > P.C.3, Serial # G12769. Condition looks fair. Any idea what it's > from? Good for anything? Trade in? Wall clock? Anchor? >> > >71" diameter X 54" pitch would suggest to me that it is probably from a >Cessna 152 with an O-235 engine. > >I would vote for wall clock! > >Gary Corde >RV-6 N211GC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 12, 1996
Subject: Re: Spelling
Is it my magination or does everyone on this bored mispel GAJE and UNSUSCIBE??????? -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 12, 1996
Subject: Re: Slow leaking Tire Tubes
Yes boys and girls, I have checked the valves (they are fully seated and not leaking) and all the other obvious stuff, come now. We understand valves quite well, thank you, as they are common in all tires, both tube and tubeless. Historically they only become a problem as the rubber items get old and begin to crack. These items are all brand new, veritable virgins. The thing that is different in this RV case is the tube, I think. All my vehicles; my car, my scooter and my Kitfox all have tubeless tires. They "weep" almost not at all. It seems plausible that the tube is leaking because it is natural rubber, however, I find this degree of leakage unacceptable whether they all do it or not. Further, I understand the ratio of surface area to volume is unusually large in small, low pressure tires. What to do? The proportions are what they are. Does anyone know if any of the commercially available puncture sealants would be beneficial and have no other bad habits. Other constructive comments would be most welcome. Gary VanRemortel N1GV Vanremog(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 12, 1996
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Rudder Pedal Placement
No trouble with clearance at that location. LD >Hey guys, I'm attempting to establish rudder pedal placement >in my 6A. If I set the pedal assembly forward so as to >minimally clear my prop governor/oil filter firewall recess >(purchased from Vans), will I have sufficient clearance >between the pedal and firewall. > >If no one can help with above, would someone tell me the max >forward movement of either pedal before max rudder >deflection is achieved. > >thanks, > >chet razer (sitting in cockpit) > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 1996
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: Panel Pix
Hi Folks, This might result in anything from a null response to a deluge, but here goes. (I have gotten a lot of much appreciated help with tools and wiring from people like Peter Mortensen and John Ammeter and if I can help someone who is a lot further along in building than I am at this point, then so be it.) While at Oshkosh, I took 16 pictures of 14 different RV6/6A panels. Used a Canon A1 with zoom lens and they turned out pretty good. The panel fills the whole picture, but I tried to get at least the tops of the 'sticks' so you could see transmit buttons/trim controls that were being used. They range from the very simple to the very elaborate (e.g. 'stepped' slanted panel) as you might imagine. I have looked at them under an inexpernsive 3 power magnifying glass with 5 power bubble insert and, in general, the labeling on the switches, etc is readable. What I did NOT get is the instrument make (in fact, no information at all) from any of the builder/pilots. I took them first thing in the morning when the crowds were very sparse and so were the builders! I also assumed (and you know what that does) that the tail number would be somewhere on the panel and I could use the FAA internet lookup to find the owner. Wrong again, Bill. So, in general, there is no way to identify the owner from the pix. The only thing I can figure is that if the tail numbers were there, they were in the top half inch of the panel and blocked by the glare shield from my angle above and behind the cockpit. Well, if there are any of you folks completing your birds out in the boonies where you haven't had the opportunity to see many RVs at fly-ins and would be interested in getting copies of the pix, please send me an email directly (email address below). The price will be enough to cover my expenses which I am guessing will be $7 or $8 to cover the prints, packaging and postage. What I would like to do is find out if there is any interest, then figure out a price and have you send me a check and do everything at one time. (Cheez, sorry this was so long!) Best regards, Bill Costello bcos(at)ix.netcom.com -- Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246 Building RV-6 | Reserved N97WC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 12, 1996
From: Piers Walker <pierso(at)tartarus.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: RV6A HS rib holes
Recently while building the horizontal stabiliser of my RV6A, I found that after drilling the holes through the front spar (HS-602) into the inner ribs (HS-405) that one of the outer holes in each rib flange is far to close to the edge of the material. The centre to edge spacing is a shade under 1.5D ! I can see no way around this problem as the hole position was not chosen by myself, it was by the geometry of the spar to rib connection. It seems that every RV6A builder must have had the same problem! What is the solution??? Piers Walker pierso(at)tartarus.uwa.edu.au ________________________________________________________________________________


July 30, 1996 - August 12, 1996

RV-Archive.digest.vol-bs