RV-Archive.digest.vol-bt
August 12, 1996 - August 21, 1996
| From: | PAUL_ROSALES(at)prodigy.com (MR PAUL A ROSALES) |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A HS rib holes |
-- [ From: Paul A. Rosales * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] --
>
> Recently while building the horizontal stabiliser of my RV6A, I found
that
> after drilling the holes through the front spar (HS-602) into the
inner
> ribs (HS-405) that one of the outer holes in each rib flange is far
to
> close to the edge of the material. The centre to edge spacing is a
shade
> under 1.5D ! I can see no way around this problem as the hole
position was
> not chosen by myself, it was by the geometry of the spar to rib
> connection. It seems that every RV6A builder must have had the same
> problem! What is the solution???
>
> Piers Walker
> pierso(at)tartarus.uwa.edu.au
>
>
>
Piers, Welcome to the Club! I did the same thing, asked the same
question, was told to put in a soft (red) rivet, and be more careful in
the future as a result! Have fun!
Paul_Rosales(at)prodigy.com
RV-6A, Ready to close rt. fuel tank
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | frankv(at)pec.co.nz |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A HS rib holes |
In , on
08/12/96 at 03:22 PM,
Piers Walker said:
>Recently while building the horizontal stabiliser of my RV6A, I found
>that after drilling the holes through the front spar (HS-602) into the
>inner ribs (HS-405) that one of the outer holes in each rib flange is far
>to close to the edge of the material. The centre to edge spacing is a
>shade under 1.5D ! I can see no way around this problem as the hole
>position was not chosen by myself, it was by the geometry of the spar to
>rib connection. It seems that every RV6A builder must have had the same
>problem! What is the solution???
I didn't run into exactly this with my RV-6, but had a similar difficulty.
I was told by an experienced (A&P, safety officer of NZ's equiv. of EAA)
RV-4 builder that it is acceptable practice to cut off the rib flange, and
rivet a new one on.
Look at my Bunny's Guide to RV Building Page
(http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/bunny.htm) for some information on this.
Frank.
(HS almost ready for skinning, VS rear spar done)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz
-----------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Piers Walker <pierso(at)tartarus.uwa.edu.au> |
I've got a query involving the horizontal stabilizer.
The plans (DWG 3PP) show that the front rib HS-404 should be trimmed to
clear the HS-614 angle. It also shows the position of the rivet
centreline. It seems that if the rib is trimmed as shown, then either the
rivet hole will be just in side the edge of the metal or the hole will in
fact be a notch!!! Either way, it is unsuitable for installing a rivet.
Furthermore, it says to trim the skin, surely the same problem exists
here!
Are there any RV6/6A builders who can answer my query?
Piers Walker
pierso(at)tartarus.uwa.edu.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Slow leaking Tire Tubes |
writes:
<< Does anyone know if any of the commercially available puncture sealants
would
be beneficial and have no other bad habits. Other constructive comments
would be most welcome.
>>
Guy,
When I was a kid, a long time ago, we used a couple tablespoons of evaporated
milk in our bicycle tubes to fix small leaks caused by thorns etc. I've
considered this many times when bringing my tires back up to pressure. Any
comments?
BTW, I'm sure it's been on the list but I'll mention it again that on these
small tires, you must keep proper inflation (read high) to prevent the tubes
from moving in the tire on touch-down. Particularly on the nosewheel if you
have one. About 30 psi seems right.
Jim Stugart
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Enough flying exp. to build? |
<<
So, any opinions? Is there anybody out there who started a project
when he was in my delicate condition?
---
Tom Sargent, Tucson, AZ, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
>>
Tom:
Go for the Gold: Buy a quick build kit. Rent while you build to keep your
touch. Your dream will be a reality with time and effort.....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scholl Jon" <scholl.jon(at)smtpgw.bcg.com> |
| Subject: | RV6A HS rib holes |
What is a red rivet? Why is it acceptable to put here?
Jon Scholl
Empennage,RV6
scholl.jon(at)bcg.com
_______________________________________________________________________________
> Piers, Welcome to the Club! I did the same thing, asked the same
> question, was told to put in a soft (red) rivet, and be more careful in
> the future as a result! Have fun!
> Paul_Rosales(at)prodigy.com
> RV-6A, Ready to close rt. fuel tank
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id AAA45 for ;
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| From: | prodigy.com!PAUL_ROSALES(at)matronics.com (MR PAUL A ROSALES) |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A HS rib holes |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Gray <klgray(at)bihs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HEAT PROBLEM |
I had the same problem with my RV6. It was much worse with auto gas!
My problem was the gascollator, I installed a NASA air scoop on the
fiber glass cowl and ducted the air right on top of the gascollator.
It worked out fine, but it I go flying and come back to a line of people
wanting to go up, I still had to watch the fuel pressure gauge.
Now days with the hot temps, I fill the right tank with 100LL and the
left with auto gas. I take off and land on 100LL and fly around on auto.
It works great. BTW, I was getting vapor lock with 100LL also before
the modification.
Ken Gray
N69KG 120 hours since Jan 14, 1996
For another subject, I was flying without the gear leg fairings and wheel
pants. I just got them installed and gained 15 miles per hour!
What more fun can you have?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kpsmith(at)sprynet.com |
| Subject: | Re: Slow leaking Tire Tubes |
Natural rubber "seeps" air out. While not having an
adequate database for aircraft, I have maintained a huge bag
full of soccerballs for 10 years or more, and they do the
same schtick. Bladders of natural rubber, etc. And they get
worse as they get older.
I have had some luck using some of the latex "fix a flat"
type liquid additive. It coats the inside of the rubber and
extends the TBRs (time between refills) about 70% of the
time. I went a season without refilling several old balls.
Caution: the stuff will set up in a very few minutes, and
if you are not rolling, it will pool and unbalance. Also,
since the rubber leaks everywhere, getting the stuff onto
every surface inside a tube will be tougher than inside a
soccer ball.
For what its worth.
Ken Smith RV6; 120 hrs w tail dragger signoff, about to
rivet the empanage skeletons.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Pruitt <mprv4(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | -4 Wings and Empennage for Sale |
Health reasons force sale. Pre-built fuel tanks, inverted both tanks,
Phlogiston spar, left wing leading edge and tank installed, main skin
drilled and ready for riveting, left aileron complete, R/L flaps ready
for riveting, top flap skin not drilled. Right wing not started.
Empennage needs fiberglass tips installed. Also some misc. parts, sw
fuel gauges and sending units, trim control cable. Make offer!
Menlo Park, CA
e-mail "mprv4(at)earthlink.net"
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
>
>On a more serious note, I'm trying to figure out how to set up my shop to
>start building the wings. Some people seem to want to build both wings at
>the same time. I assume that means I should construct a second Jig
>paralell to my first one. How much space do I need between these? I can't
>imagine it can be any less than 3 feet, but would that work (if both wings
>were on the outside surfaces of the jigs?
>
>-Mike
Mike,
If you are building in a two car garage, you can build the wings
perpendicular to each other. I used three upright to do this. The root
upright was common to both wings, with the spars overlapping. It worked out
very well. Both wings had all areas completely accessible. A picture of
this arrangement is on my homepage at http://villagenet.com/~scottg/ Just
follow the links (two I think) to the RV Project and then WING PHOTOS.
Hope this helps.
-Scott N506RV (still installing those &**^&&* baffles)
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
Bill / Listers,
To complement what Bill is doing, I have recently put instrument panel
pictures from Oshkosh 93, 94 & 95 on my homepage, just follow the links
(RV-Project, Instrument Panel Photos). My homepage is at:
http://villagenet.com/~scottg/
The pictures are only of RV-6/6A's instrument panels. I'd be happy to add
additional photos to the instrument panel page. All I would need is a good
scanned image in *.bmp, *.gif or *.jpg format. This could be sent through
e-mail. I could also scan the picture myself and then return it if someone
doesn't have a scanner.
The rest of the pictures of my RV project are relatively old (9 months).
All I need to do is develop the two rolls of film in my shop and I'll have
engine installation pictures up on the web.
-Scott N506RV (working on FWF)
scottg(at)villagenet.com
>Hi Folks,
>
>This might result in anything from a null response to a deluge, but
>here goes. (I have gotten a lot of much appreciated help with tools
>and wiring from people like Peter Mortensen and John Ammeter and if I
>can help someone who is a lot further along in building than I am at
>this point, then so be it.)
>
>While at Oshkosh, I took 16 pictures of 14 different RV6/6A panels.
>Used a Canon A1 with zoom lens and they turned out pretty good. The
>panel fills the whole picture, but I tried to get at least the tops of
>the 'sticks' so you could see transmit buttons/trim controls that were
>being used.
>
>They range from the very simple to the very elaborate (e.g. 'stepped'
>slanted panel) as you might imagine. I have looked at them under an
>inexpernsive 3 power magnifying glass with 5 power bubble insert and,
>in general, the labeling on the switches, etc is readable.
>
>What I did NOT get is the instrument make (in fact, no information at
>all) from any of the builder/pilots. I took them first thing in the
>morning when the crowds were very sparse and so were the builders! I
>also assumed (and you know what that does) that the tail number would
>be somewhere on the panel and I could use the FAA internet lookup to
>find the owner. Wrong again, Bill. So, in general, there is no way to
>identify the owner from the pix. The only thing I can figure is that
>if the tail numbers were there, they were in the top half inch of the
>panel and blocked by the glare shield from my angle above and behind
>the cockpit.
>
>Well, if there are any of you folks completing your birds out in the
>boonies where you haven't had the opportunity to see many RVs at
>fly-ins and would be interested in getting copies of the pix, please
>send me an email directly (email address below). The price will be
>enough to cover my expenses which I am guessing will be $7 or $8 to
>cover the prints, packaging and postage.
>
>What I would like to do is find out if there is any interest, then
>figure out a price and have you send me a check and do everything at
>one time. (Cheez, sorry this was so long!)
>
>Best regards,
>
>Bill Costello
>bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
>--
>
>Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
>Building RV-6 | Reserved N97WC
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
RV>I've got a query involving the horizontal stabilizer.
RV>The plans (DWG 3PP) show that the front rib HS-404 should be trimmed to
RV>clear the HS-614 angle. It also shows the position of the rivet
RV>centreline. It seems that if the rib is trimmed as shown, then either the
RV>rivet hole will be just in side the edge of the metal or the hole will in
RV>fact be a notch!!! Either way, it is unsuitable for installing a rivet.
RV>Furthermore, it says to trim the skin, surely the same problem exists
RV>here!
RV>Are there any RV6/6A builders who can answer my query?
RV>Piers Walker
RV>pierso(at)tartarus.uwa.edu.au
Piers:
I'm an -8 builder, but all of us ran into the same problem. The
consensus was to either put a rivet in the hole and not worry about the
edge distance problem or trim the skin and the rib so that the hole was
no longer there. The most important part was *_do not_* alter the HS-614
tabs. I guess these are very important in later construction. I say "I
guess" because the preview plans aren't available for the -8 at this
time and I haven't ordered preview plans for the -6 or -4 yet to check
things out.
Good luck!
Rod Woodard
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
RV-8, #80033
Just barely ahead of Piers!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jtl(at)roanoke.infi.net (John Lenhardt) |
| Subject: | Overhauled Engines |
I have been listening to the list for a few months. I've completed the
workshop in which I plan to build my RV-6A. I'm now ready to build my jig.
I can answer the lists' questions reagarding Bob Barrows. I know him
personally and he is also the EAA technical advisor for our chapter. He
does excellent work. He will be building my engine when I'm ready for it.
He is an engineer by trade and he has his own scratch-build plane call the
BearHawk. It was displayed near the RV line at Oshkosh the year.
Have good are his engines? I'll be trusting my life with it. He is a down
to earth kind of guy. He'll do it right.
If any one has some specific questions for him, I will pass them on to him.
I don't know if he is on the Net or the RV-List, but I will find out. You
can email me privately.
John Lenhardt
Roanoke, VA
RV-6A #23437
jtl(at)roanoke.infi.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Slow leaking Tire Tubes |
>Does anyone know if any of the commercially available puncture sealants would
>be beneficial and have no other bad habits. Other constructive comments
>would be most welcome.
>
>Gary VanRemortel
>N1GV
>Vanremog(at)aol.com
Gary, I'd be a little nervous about the sealants. If you try any of these,
I'd suggest removing your wheel pants for a test period in case the goo sets
up an unbalanced condition. Wouldn't want to vibrate them apart. Going
from a dead stop to 60+ mph---I think I'd want my tires balanced.
My local car/truck dealer offers the option of nitrogen to his customers.
Supposedly, this lessens the loss of tire pressure. I've not tried this so
can offer no opinion if it works or not. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
I am looking for builder's insurance for my RV project.
If anyone has builder's insurance would you please email with the
company name and any comments about their service.
thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com |
| Subject: | RV6 tanks in RV4 ?? |
I found several references to RV6 tanks in an RV4 in the archive but could
not find any detail. Does anyone know if this is an "approved" mod? Are
there any significant reasons NOT to do it?
It lookes like I've got a new destination 500 miles away that I will have to
travel to several times a year. I'd like to do it non-stop if practicle.
thanks
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
>Bill / Listers,
>
>To complement what Bill is doing, I have recently put instrument panel
>pictures from Oshkosh 93, 94 & 95 on my homepage, just follow the links
>(RV-Project, Instrument Panel Photos). My homepage is at:
>
>http://villagenet.com/~scottg/
>
>The pictures are only of RV-6/6A's instrument panels. I'd be happy to add
>additional photos to the instrument panel page. All I would need is a good
>scanned image in *.bmp, *.gif or *.jpg format. This could be sent through
>e-mail. I could also scan the picture myself and then return it if someone
>doesn't have a scanner.
>
>The rest of the pictures of my RV project are relatively old (9 months).
>All I need to do is develop the two rolls of film in my shop and I'll have
>engine installation pictures up on the web.
>
>-Scott N506RV (working on FWF)
>scottg(at)villagenet.com
Scott, Great Web page. If you and Bill could get together, that would be a
great way to distribute the panel pictures that Bill took and save Bill a
lot of hassle on mailings, etc. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
<< I am looking for builder's insurance for my RV project.
If anyone has builder's insurance would you please email with the
company name and any comments about their service. >>
Avemco offers construction policies. Mine runs $336 for $40k coverage.
800-638-8440
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russ Werner <russ(at)maui.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Enough flying exp. to build? |
Tom,
Keep flying, but get started now on the RV. It is never too early.
Aloha,
Russ Werner, Maui Hawaii
russ(at)maui.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
<< What I would like to do is find out if there is any interest, then
figure out a price and have you send me a check and do everything at >>
Hi Bill, color me interested. Let me know when you're ready and I'll send
you the $.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
>(stuff cut)
>BTW I just checked out a little over a hundred hr pilot 2 weeks ago that
>that just made his first flight in his 180hp CS RV-4 and yesterday went
>out and showed both Dick V in the RV-8 and Jerry V in his RV-4 the back side
>of his RV-4 flat out, really fast RV-4 due to cooling baffeling I think
>similer to Dave Anders RV-4.
>
>Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 Hillsboro, OR
>jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
I believe you're are talking about John Peaslee's RV-4, which he started
building before he started taking lessons for his PP license. John's RV-4
engine cooling baffling concept (and some design details, John does great
work) was taken from the Lycoming installation on my RV-3. (I believe Sid
Golden gave my concept to Dave Anders, but Dave has gone to a fiberglass
shell over the engine for weight reduction.)
I came up with the concept from some fluid flow analysis I was doing at work
at that time. I later observed that the concept was used extensively on the
Formula One racers. (Old technology unshared. Same problem, same solution).
Simply stated, any change in the flow area creates drag.
John has a similar problem to what I experienced with the baffling. The
engine cylinders run too cold. He is talking about having to reduce the
inlet area. (This is an excellent way to reduce drag farther.)
BTW, John Peaslee did an outstanding job in building his RV-4. It is not
just the baffling that gets him the performance.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A powered RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder Flying 8 years
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, California USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil> |
>
> If anyone has builder's insurance would you please email with the
> company name and any comments about their service.
Avemco, 1-800-638-8440. Service: they took my money ($240 or so per year
for $20K of coverage) just fine -- very polite about it :)
Tim Lewis
lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil
RV-6AQ #60023
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Oshkosh ramblings |
Hi Listers,
Janet and I enjoyed meeting many of you at Oshkosh, during the show and
at the "RV-list reserved table" at Van's banquet.
We had a great time and a great trip, flying out and back with 3 other
RVs. In our group was Carl Hay, RV-6 (Climbing Everest), who got to fly
in the homebuilt showcase. Wally Anderson, RV-6 (Best Metal Homebuilt,
Arlington 95) and Bronze Lindy winner at Osh this year. Jim Schrock,
brand-new RV-4. We got to display 790DW at Vans booth Sunday and
Monday, which was an honor, but I had to guard it the whole time, too
many folks walking up and trying to climb-in. Survived just fine tho.
Lyle Hefel's new RV-4 (last cover of RVator) won a bronze Lindy as did a
blue RV-6A from somewhere in CA. Paul Unrein's 80% scale scratch-built
all metal P-51 (Battleground WA) got a Lindy as well. Paul was asked
out on a photo shoot, so I expect we'll see him in a future SA.
That's pretty good, as there are only 10 Bronze Lindy's awarded, 1
Silver and 1 Gold.
The WX as really pretty good, only sprinkled 1 night while we were
there. Left Monday in a 25mph crosswind, bucking headwinds all the way
back of minimum 10, upto 40 mph! Had real trouble with low clouds both
going and coming from the Wisconsin border all the way in to Wittman,
but otherwise did little cloud dodging.
Also met lots of happy Duckworks customers, appreciate the supportive
remarks about the product. Sold all 6 kits we had with us while there,
although whoever had been calling me last month asking about an Oshkosh
discount never stopped by.
Mark Frederick was there with his Harmon Rocket, looking real good
compared to some recent photos he had! The paint scheme in Silver/black
and the giant spinner combine to make one mean looking airplane...
At Van's booth, interest in the Quickbuild and the RV-8 was tremendous.
All of us that flew-out together tried to spell Van's crew for lunch
every day, which was fun, hope we didn't make too many mistakes! It was
interesting to see how mobbed Van's was, while the Kitfox display next
door was much less travelled.
Steve Barnard, Tracy Saylor, and Dave Anders were all there, each
sporting various methods and types of speed mods. DAve and Steve have
IO-360s now, cowl mods, etc., and are getting some impressive speeds,
while Tracy is sticking with his O-360 and cowl/wheel pant mods.
All in all, lots of great RVs and RV mods/products there, I spent very
little time looking at other types. Evidently every Lancair 4 in the
world was there, I would guess 15-20 (I had a nightmare last night that
I was building a Lancair - AAAAIIIIIIEEEEEEE!!!!). Saw 3 Mazda powered
RVs, the -6 from WA, Alan Tolle's -3, and a -4 (no details). The NSI
Subaru powered -6 was there from WA as well and on display in their
booth. It's a nice looking installation, but the price has gone-up to
about 16K, firewall fwd. He said the fuel economy was very good (5gph?)
but I couldn't get a cruise speed out of him.
My 'big' purchase was a GPS 90 handheld, which I couldn't resist at $570
(actually $600 with tax). Saw it for 625 and 640 as well. Janet
figured-out how to use it on the way home, it's pretty slick. Now I
just need to sell my Flybuddy Loran and figure-out how to mount the
GPS...
Showed Janet, Andy Hanna and a few others the 'infamous' Acey-Duecy
Tavern, it was jumping as usual. Andy was perfecting his 'looking thru
a beer glass' while checking-out the local color. Van even chided-him
about his 'outing' at the banquet. Luckily, Wally "Daddy" Anderson
rescued us before we hurt ourselves too badly.
Doug Minor, the banquet is at "Pioneer Inn", which happens to be home to
"Cattails Lounge", where you bought Bob Hoover that drink 2 years ago.
Which reminds me, Hoover's Shrike routine was as interesting as ever, I
always enjoyed his 'Energy management' engine-out stuff.
Well, that's enough for now. Keep building and we'll see you on the RV
display line next year!
Don 'The Duck' Wentz, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
A friend building a RV-6 (not no the list) is using a Koheler K-2406-SAE-1
primer. Does anyone know what type of fittings are used to couple the
primer line to the male, threaded ports on the primer? If his primer is
like the one I have in my junk box, it is threaded 24 TPI and looks to be
tapered. The diameter (measuring from the tops of the threads) is 5/16".
Thanks, Bob Skinner BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | frankv(at)pec.co.nz |
In , on
12 August 96 at 04:53 PM,
Piers Walker said: >The
plans (DWG 3PP) show that the front rib HS-404 should be trimmed >to
clear the HS-614 angle. It also shows the position of the rivet
>centreline. It seems that if the rib is trimmed as shown, then either
>the rivet hole will be just in side the edge of the metal or the hole
>will in fact be a notch!!! Either way, it is unsuitable for
>installing a rivet. Furthermore, it says to trim the skin, surely the
>same problem exists here!
Hi Piers,
Sounds like our HSs are pretty similar. On my -6, that hole just about
lined up with the end of my HS-614. So the rib got cut right round the
hole position. I also cut the skin round the HS-614 so that the hole
in it no longer exists.
Hope this helps,
Frank.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Overhauled Engines |
Joe: I think the key to your question lies in just what you have to do to an
engine to claim a "major" has been done. Miking parts for tolerances within
wear (vs. new) limits and then sticking them back in the case without a
magnaflux check just might meet some people's criteria, and certainly would
shave cost...
I have the good fortune of living about 30 minutes up the dirt path from Bob
Barrows, and he and I are going to tear into my removed-running O-320-E2D
first-run core this week to decide if it needs overhaul now at 1995 TTSN or
in a few hundred more hours. The $10k figure is about right. If you bring
Bob a complete core to start with, I believe you could get a rebuild inside
of 3 months, but don't quote me on that until I ask him again. He's been a
very nice guy to hangar fly with, and I think he's as laid -back and honest a
fellow as you're likely to find anywhere. It's neat to see his Bearhawk
plans-built up close after the Sport Aviation did the writeup on it last
year.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A instrument panel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Primer fittings |
> A friend building a RV-6 (not no the list) is using a Koheler K-2406-
> SAE-1 primer. Does anyone know what type of fittings are used to
> couple the primer line to the male, threaded ports on the primer? If
> his primer is like the one I have in my junk box, it is threaded 24
> TPI and looks to be tapered. The diameter (measuring from the tops of
> the threads) is 5/16". Thanks, Bob Skinner BSkinner(at)ltec.net
Oh No! Not another Primer discussion! Oh, wait a minute. Not THAT kind of
primer. Whew! :-)
(I know, it's just a bit of fluff in this message. I just wanted an excuse to
try a new .sig exclusively for this list).
--
(Sorry Randall, no more room for the Yakko Warner quote)
Richard Chandler
RV-6: Garage bought, saving for tools and tail kit (Christmas?).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Primer fittings |
>A friend building a RV-6 (not no the list) is using a Koheler K-2406-SAE-1
>primer. Does anyone know what type of fittings are used to couple the
>primer line to the male, threaded ports on the primer? If his primer is
>like the one I have in my junk box, it is threaded 24 TPI and looks to be
>tapered. The diameter (measuring from the tops of the threads) is 5/16".
>Thanks, Bob Skinner BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>
>
>
Sounds like the fitting is 1/8" pipe thread. I know that was the thread on
the primer pump that I used to have on my RV before I changed to the
electric solenoid and boost pump method of priming.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Airplane data |
>
>
>>NAME: John Ammmeter
>>"N" NUMBER: N16JA
>>E-MAIL ADDRESS: ammeterj(at)seanet.com
>>MODEL: RV-6
>>DATE FINISHED: August 11, 1990 (first flight)
>>TOTAL TIME: 212 hours
>>ENGINE: O-320 E2A 150 HP
>>PROP: Irlbeck 68 x 69
>>CANOPY: tilt
>>STARTER: lightweight one from company in Florida
>>ALTERNATOR: Van's model
>>VOLT. REG.: From Van's
>>BATTERY: RG
>>EXHAUST: Tolles (cracked at 20 and 60 hours)
>>ELEVATOR TRIM: MAC
>>FLAPS: Armstrong Flaps
>>BRAKES: Yes TIRE PRESSURE: 30 to 35 PSI
>>PANEL: Of course it has a panel
>>
>>
>>LIGHTING: I have a landing/taxi light but don't fly at night
>>PAINT: Urethane
>>
>>INTERIOR: I did the foam myself and had a local auto interior man sew it up
>>
>>INSURANCE: Liability only, costs about $350 to $390/year
>>
>>OTHER (MISC):
>>
>>
>>PROBLEMS:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Huffaker <huffaker(at)utw.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Enough flying exp. to build? |
On Sun, 11 Aug 1996, Jerry Springer wrote:
> >When you get yours finished you have to "shake it down" during the test
> > period and if you have little experience both the airplane and the
> >pilot will be in virgin teritory.
>
> I am not sure what "shake it down" means but with proper training
> before the first flight, the first flight and testing should not be any
> more difficult than any other flight. There probably is a higher degree
> of risk on the first flight and if you don't feel comfortable
> doing the first flight and flying the testing period get someone
> expeienced to do it for you.
I have always wondered about this. As a large part of the risk involved
comes from the fact that the aircraft was built by an all thumbs know-nothing
(me), I could not morally accept having someone else face that risk for me.
Of course, the other large parts of the risk comes from the all thumbs
know-nothing at the controls, but I intend to get some training, and change
that to an all thumbs know a little.
As for myself, I got my PP about a year before starting on my -8. Consider
myself a mixed time pilot (~80 hrs in c-152's, 2000+ on cheap pc simulators
(not too accurate, but did help when learning the real thing)). My current
plan is to stay current in 152's while building (hey, they're cheap!), and
then as I near completion, get about 10 hrs emergency & unusual attitude
training, and 10 hours rv-6 time. On this note, is it legal to give
instruction in a homebuilt? It seems to fall under the operation for hire
area, but for in-type training is really in the best interests of safety.
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (huffaker(at)utw.com)
President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
AW # 467 Biff Tarkiss
RV-8 80091 awaiting replacement R-410
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Baffling |
> I came up with the concept from some fluid flow analysis I was doing
> at work at that time. I later observed that the concept was
> used extensively on the Formula One racers. (Old technology
> unshared. Same problem, same solution).
> Simply stated, any change in the flow area creates drag.
That sounds very cool. How exactly did you go about it? And what did the
results end up like?
I remember earlier suggesting separate inlets for each cylinder, it sounds
like this technique takes the concept even further.
--
(Sorry Randall, no more room for the Yakko Warner quote)
Richard Chandler
RV-6: Garage bought, saving for tools and tail kit (Christmas?).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Primer fittings |
>>A friend building a RV-6 (not no the list) is using a Koheler K-2406-SAE-1
>>primer. Does anyone know what type of fittings are used to couple the
>>primer line to the male, threaded ports on the primer? If his primer is
>>like the one I have in my junk box, it is threaded 24 TPI and looks to be
>>tapered. The diameter (measuring from the tops of the threads) is 5/16".
>>Thanks, Bob Skinner BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>>
>>
>>
>Sounds like the fitting is 1/8" pipe thread. I know that was the thread on
>the primer pump that I used to have on my RV before I changed to the
>electric solenoid and boost pump method of priming.
>
>John Ammeter
John, It seems strange that the male end would be tapered (pipe thread).
It's set up for a flared tube and the nut should tighten the flare of the
tubing against the male fitting on the primer. Maybe my eyes are playing
tricks on me and the thread is not tapered. Could it be for an AN818 2D
coupling nut? This is for 1/8" O.D. tubing and the thread is 5/16-24. That
set up makes more sense to me. Thanks, Bob Skinner
BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Enough flying exp. to build? |
Brian Huffaker wrote:
***SNIP***
> On this note, is it legal to give
> instruction in a homebuilt? It seems to fall under the operation for hire
> area, but for in-type training is really in the best interests of safety.
>
> Brian Huffaker, DSWL (huffaker(at)utw.com)
> President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
> AW # 467 Biff Tarkiss
> RV-8 80091 awaiting replacement R-410
Brian
Yes it is legal to give instruction in a homebuilt and if I were giving
you
instruction in your homebuilt I could charge you for my time, but if we
were
in my RV-6 I could not charge you for the use of my airplane although I
could
teach you to fly in my airplane. (Fuel contributions accepted of
course):-)
Flight instructing falls in a category of its own, we have to have a
commercial
certificate, but can flight instruct with a third class medical because
instructing is not considered a commercial operation, unless instructing
for
certain types of commercial flight schools. Flight instructors do not
even have
to do the random pee in a bottle because we are not considered
commercial.
On another interesting note a pilot that wants to transition to a
experimental tailwheel airplane is not even required to have a tailwheel
endorsement to fly his new taildragger even though he has never even
been in
one before. *FAR 61.31[(2)[(h)](3)* clarified in AC 61-98a paragraph 14
"Limitations FAR 61.31 do not apply to operation of aircraft
certificated
as experimental........... As well as amateur-built experimental
aircraft"
I CERTAINLY WOULD NOT RECOMMEND DOING IT THIS WAY BUT THOUGHT IT
INTERESTING.
I know its more than you ever wanted to know:-)
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 Hillsboro, OR
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GHLX34A(at)prodigy.com (MR GEORGE T KILISHEK) |
| Subject: | Re: Enough flying exp. to build |
Tom:
I agree with what I think is the consensus: there's no experience
minimum to start building. I'd add two cautions, however: (1) a bit
of flying experience will help you make some important decisions
about which RV (nose wheel or tail dragger) you want to build, what
instrumentation/avionics are appropriate for you, electric vs. manual
trim, engine &prop selections, and others. Without some experience
with alternatives, you're at the mercy of opinionated (and frequently
inappropriate or wrong) advice from old geezers like us. (2) if you
build quickly, or get the quick build kit, and don't accumulate much
flying hours & experience during the building process,you could have
an airplane that you're not ready for. The RV s are wonderful planes,
but they are high performance aircraft and (especially the tail
draggers) can bite if abused (whether through ignorance/lack of
experience or through arrogance and carelessness). The same
statement might be made about Cessna 150s, but things don't happen
quite so quickly in a Spam Can.
My advice: go for it, but keep up your training with a good CFI
during the building process, and make every effort to fly as many
different types of aircraft as you can by the time you achieve 100
hours or so. Before you fly your bird, get a thorough check-out from
a CFI who knows RVs.
Best wishes.
George Kilishek
Old, high time, marginal skills and judgement but still alive.
RV-8 SN 80006. Working on control surfaces.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV6 tanks in RV4 ?? |
>I found several references to RV6 tanks in an RV4 in the archive but could
>not find any detail. Does anyone know if this is an "approved" mod? Are
>there any significant reasons NOT to do it?
>
>It lookes like I've got a new destination 500 miles away that I will have to
>travel to several times a year. I'd like to do it non-stop if practicle.
>
>thanks
>
>John
>
>
As for this being an "approved mod", all our planes say "EXPERIMENTAL" on
them. The approval comes from you, the manufacturer. Those who know me know
that I approve of, and use, all sorts of "mods".
Personally, I'd say it's OK. You could get a tank flange extension from John
Harmon- 805-836-1028. I get some of my "mod" parts from him, too. You'd also
need an additional inner rib for each tank from Van's.
Check six!
Mark
mlfred(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Harmon Rocket 2 accident @ Longmont |
Hi all:
Some guy (nameless) stopped into my shop today, grinning and proudly
displaying his new "RVator". He said I was famous, now. Seems the boys at
Van's saw fit to print that a Rocket 2 had been destroyed in an accident at
the Longmont fly-in.
Not so.
I flew that same airplane to Oshkosh, 28 days later! Busted RV's aren't THAT
hard to fix...
They were right about something going wrong on takeoff. My foot slipped off
the right rudder pedal at a most inopportune time. I felt the brakes dragging
a bit on the previous hop, so being a smart enough pilot, I decided to lower
my foot ever so slightly on the next take-off. BIG MISTAKE! In a flash of
20/20 hindsight, I have to say that a bit of wingwalk anti-skid on the tube
section of the rudder pedal would be a good idea, as are those old, worn-out
shoes you keep around for some odd reason. I had on a pair of
shiny-new-not-broke-in Nike's, and I'm sure this was a contributing factor.
All those reasons aside, it's still my fault.
You cannot believe how fast an airplane will jump off the runway into a ditch
when given half a chance, much less a whole one. That drive home with the
airplane in the back is unbelievably long.
I feel I need to mention that the people at the fly-in were most eager to
help with whatever it was that I needed to get home. A good bunch, and I
appreciate all their help.
Ryan Bendure (free hamburgers) says I STILL owe him a ride, but a less
exciting one. I can do that.
Just wait 'till I get a retract...
Check six- I might be there!
Mark
mlfred(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Harmon Rocket 2 accident @ Longmont |
Item Subject: RV-List: Harmon Rocket 2 accident @ Longmont
Sorry to hear the news,
I guess there is a lesson for us all to learn from your experience. I am
sure it could have been any one of us.
I will certainly make sure I fit some anti-skid to my rudder pedal tubes.
Thanks for sharing your misfortunes so we could all learn.
Regards
Mike P
Melbourne, Australia
RV6 - tail still in jig
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RV-List: Harmon Rocket 2 accident @ Longmont
HP-Singapore,shargw1
Date: 8/13/96 3:20 PM
Hi all:
Some guy (nameless) stopped into my shop today, grinning and proudly
displaying his new "RVator". He said I was famous, now. Seems the boys at
Van's saw fit to print that a Rocket 2 had been destroyed in an accident at
the Longmont fly-in.
Not so.
I flew that same airplane to Oshkosh, 28 days later! Busted RV's aren't THAT
hard to fix...
They were right about something going wrong on takeoff. My foot slipped off
the right rudder pedal at a most inopportune time. I felt the brakes dragging
a bit on the previous hop, so being a smart enough pilot, I decided to lower
my foot ever so slightly on the next take-off. BIG MISTAKE! In a flash of
20/20 hindsight, I have to say that a bit of wingwalk anti-skid on the tube
section of the rudder pedal would be a good idea, as are those old, worn-out
shoes you keep around for some odd reason. I had on a pair of
shiny-new-not-broke-in Nike's, and I'm sure this was a contributing factor.
All those reasons aside, it's still my fault.
You cannot believe how fast an airplane will jump off the runway into a ditch
when given half a chance, much less a whole one. That drive home with the
airplane in the back is unbelievably long.
I feel I need to mention that the people at the fly-in were most eager to
help with whatever it was that I needed to get home. A good bunch, and I
appreciate all their help.
Ryan Bendure (free hamburgers) says I STILL owe him a ride, but a less
exciting one. I can do that.
Just wait 'till I get a retract...
Check six- I might be there!
Mark
mlfred(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Avemco offers builder's insurance, probably all the others do as well.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PAUL_ROSALES(at)prodigy.com (MR PAUL A ROSALES) |
-- [ From: Paul A. Rosales * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] --
> Subject: RV-List: Insurance
>
> I am looking for builder's insurance for my RV project.
>
> If anyone has builder's insurance would you please email with the
company
> name and any comments about their service.
>
> thanks
>
>
>
I too have Avemco to cover my RV-6A tail/wings that are in the garage:
$9K coverage @ $154/year. As I recall, Avemco would not write me a
policy for less than $150.
Paul_Rosales(at)prodigy.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | elon ormsby <ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Slow leaking Tire Tubes |
(snip)... My local car/truck dealer offers the option of nitrogen to his
customers.
>Supposedly, this lessens the loss of tire pressure. I've not tried this so
>can offer no opinion if it works or not. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
-------------------------------------------------
>Bob:
"Air" is 80% nitrogen, 17% oxygen and about 3% all of the other rare gases
(hydrogen, helium, argon, radon! etc). Percentages are close but not exact.
Other than the industrial nitrogen being "drier" than air (no water vapor) -
I can't see why your local dealer is doing you such a favor. You are buying
from him 80% of what you are getting for free from your compressor.
Nitrogen is a smaller molecule and will thus permeate through the tube
faster than air (combined of all of the gasses). The only advantage I can
see for truck tires may be the "limited" increase in tire pressure caused by
expansion due to highway heating. N2 will absorb more heat and not increase
the pressure as significantly as air.(and that may be so small as to be
unmeasurable). I think, for filling tires, this nitrogen thing is most
likely nonsense.
Elon
ormsby(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Recap of interest in panel pix |
Hi Folks,
So far 8 listers have shown interest in the panel pix: Jon Scholl, Tim
Lewis, Mike Angiulo, Bruce Patton, Bill Watson, John Musser, Ed Bundy,
and Ed Cole.
Some have said the home page pix are great but, by nature of the
medium, don't have the resolution they are looking for. Of course, pix
don't have the resolution of (corrected to!) 20/20 eyeballs, but a lot
better memory. :)
I'll wait a few more days for any add-ons. Or if any of the 8 above
have changed your mind (or if I mis-interpreted what you said), just
drop me a note.
Best regards,
Bill Costello
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 | Reserved N97WC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
AUA phone number is 1-800-727-3823 sorry ....George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Enough flying exp. to build? |
If you want to see an unbiased overview of how people have screwed up in
RV's you can scan through the NTSB accident reports on their web site at
http://www.
ntsb.gov/Aviation/months.html
You will have to pick them out as all accident /incident reports are listed
by month since 1983.
It can be very educational to see what happened so history doesn't repeat
itself. Far to many people have just run their fuel out selecting the wrong
tank.
Since April 1992 I found 42 reports on RV accidents (Most nonfatal
thankfully). Of those 17 were mechanical, 1 unknown mechanical, the balance
were pilot screwups. No way to tell pilot experience so you will have to
come to your own conclusions, but, in my opinion inexperience can be read
into alot of the reports.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with other postings, you don't have to be Chuck
Yeager to fly an RV. IMHO properly trained, current, and active pilots do a
good job keeping these things in one piece. The fact that I found only 42
reports since 1992 is a good indicator of that. If you browse the NTSB webb
site you will see alot more accidents for some other homebuilts that don't
have as many aircraft flying as we do.
But, I still feel that there is no substitute for experience. Why do you
think insurance companies charge more for low time pilots. They aren't
trying to drive your business away, they are trying to cover their costs. An
Avemco agent told me they don't make money on homebuilts as a whole,
although the RV series is considered a better risk.
So go get it the experience and have fun.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
call Man Mcgee at AUA Inc. and he can give you a uqote we have all of our
planes insured with him....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
I got mine through Avemco. Just called their main # and they put me in touch
with the proper person. I insured mine for 30k for $300.+ per year. Mal
rvbildr(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Meulemans Dirk <100554.1236(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Hello everyone,
I received my RV-8 empennage kit yesterday, but I've been watching this list
for a while. Thanks to Mark Richardson and John for pointing me to it.
O.K...here's my first problem. My local toolshop (that's in Belgium) hasn't
got exotic things like, for example, a 3/16" drill bit. The conversion table
in my aircraft Spruce catalog tells me that 3/16" equals 4.762 millimeters.
Which, of course, falls in between the standard 4 and 5 mm. bits.The toolshop
does however have a 4.8 mm bit in stock. How (un)safe would it be to use that
one? How did other European builders solve this kind of problem? Mailorder
even the smallest drill bit from the USA ? Would I find this thing in any
regular toolshop in the U.K.? After all, it used to be their colonies. I fly a
B-727 for DHL on the European network, so if anyone knows of an exotic
tool-supplier in any European major city, I can handle it from there. And
what's a #40 bit anyway? does that mean 4 regular millimeters thick, after all
this trouble with fractional inches ?? By the way, when I told the
toolshop-people that 'AN' stands for army/navy, they wanted to know which army
I was talking about.
Dirk Meulemans
100554.1236(at)compuserve.com
E-mail from: Meulemans Dirk, 13-Aug-1996
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KennyCobb(at)aol.com |
I'm building a -6a and trying to deside on electric or
manual elevator trim. I've flown a 6a with manual trim
and would like to hear from some one who has electric trim
and hear their opinion. My concern with electric is over controlling
based on how little adjustment is needed with manual trim.????
Ken Crabtree
kennycobb(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Overhauled Engines |
Did your friend Bob Barrows tell you about the 0SMOH 0320 lyc. that he sold
to a friend of mine [Gerry Ruschke] about 5 yrs ago??
Gerry put it in his brand new RV4 , flew 42 hrs , on his last flight with
that engine....something was wrong..not putting out full power.
He was able to land safely , the engine quit on rollout , when he tried to
pull the prop thru it wouldn't budge. He said the engine always did seem hard
to pull through but thought being 0SMOH was the reason.
Well.....as my friend was taking the engine apart he found out why it quit.
On the inside of the engine,in a few different spots was stamped..."BOAT"...
also cylinders & pistons were mismatched. When Bob Barrows was called he said
he couldn't understand it,and to send all the parts back ,he would get to the
bottom of it.
It took Gerry 6 months of phone calls & threats form his lawyer before
Barrows refunded his money.
Must be a different "Bob Barrows" out there......bottom line....buyer
beware!!! Jim Wendel
N
43RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: exotic tools |
On 13 Aug 1996, Meulemans Dirk wrote:
--snip--
> How did other European builders solve this kind of problem? Mailorder
> even the smallest drill bit from the USA ?
If you do end up having to order from the states, I recommend
Avery Enterprises
2290 W. Hicks Rd., Hangar 54-1
Ft Worth, TX, USA 76131
800-652-8379
817-439-8400
It's a first class operation, emphasis on good quality tools and customer
service. I got to see the place first hand when I took Avery's sheet
metal workshop. I was impressed. I bought more than $1000 worth of
tools from them, and I've been very satisfied.
> And
> what's a #40 bit anyway? does that mean 4 regular millimeters thick, after all
> this trouble with fractional inches ??
Size Decimal Inches
19 .1660
30 .1285
40 .0980
41 .0960
Above conversions copied from the Avery catalog, page 44.
Hope this helps.
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ #60023
lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil
capntim(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com |
| Subject: | engine overhauls... |
I also have been thinking about buying an engine core now, even though I won't
need it for a few years yet. I would like to "lock in" the core price before
they get completely out of sight.
Unfortunately, GA seems to be one of the places where the "Fast Eddies" of
the world are still in business. Therefore, if I were to buy a core with a
"good" crank, I would have to immediately send it out for overhaul while the
deal is still fresh. If I were to let it sit for 3 years, I would have no
recourse with the seller. A new crank is several thousand $$.
If I were to buy a used 500 SMOH or such engine, I would still have to do a
teardown inspection immediately. It seems to be standard practice to simply
not record prop strikes and then sell the engines as if nothing happened.
Either way, it seems that prompt action is important immediately after buying
a used engine.
So, I guess I'll wait. It's no wonder many people simply write the big check
to Van and take home a FNEW Lycoming.
John Walsh(at)ranger.enet.dec.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Metric drill sizes |
For the benefit of RV builders in metric dimensioned countries ....
The main hole sizes you need are:
for 3/32 rivets,
I prefer for holes that will get dimpled:
drill #41 0.0960 inches Nearest is 2.45 mm (0.0965)
others use:
drill #40 0.0980 inches Nearest is 2.5 mm (0.0984)
for 1/8 rivets,
drill #30 0.1285 inches Nearest is 3.25 mm (0.1280)
for AN3 bolts (don't use 3/16!)
drill #12 0.1890 inches Exactly 4.80 mm
for AN4 bolts
Van says drill letter D (0.2460 inches), but this gives a tight fit if you
have an accurate hole.
... however a better fit is to ream to 0.248 inches
This is exactly 6.3 mm
These sizes will build 99.5% of an RV. Drill bits are relatively
cheap, and the advantage of "aircraft" drill bits over locally bought
hardware store bits are the "split point" cutting edges that are easier to
use in aluminum, causing much less "wandering". Perhaps US purchases of
the English dimensioned drill bits from US suppliers would be better.
.... hope this helps .... Gil (Metric or English) Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
RV6A, #20701 .. canopy, engine sumps and buying engine hook-up
stuff ($$)
PS ... thanks to Bob Avery for the above reference info. out of his catalog.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Espen Dahl <dahl(at)sn.no> |
| Subject: | Re: exotic tools |
>Hello everyone,
> I received my RV-8 empennage kit yesterday, but I've been watching this list
>for a while. Thanks to Mark Richardson and John for pointing me to it.
> O.K...here's my first problem. My local toolshop (that's in Belgium) hasn't
>got exotic things like, for example, a 3/16" drill bit. The conversion table
>in my aircraft Spruce catalog tells me that 3/16" equals 4.762 millimeters.
>Which, of course, falls in between the standard 4 and 5 mm. bits.The toolshop
>does however have a 4.8 mm bit in stock. How (un)safe would it be to use that
>one? How did other European builders solve this kind of problem? Mailorder
>even the smallest drill bit from the USA ? Would I find this thing in any
>regular toolshop in the U.K.? After all, it used to be their colonies. I fly a
>B-727 for DHL on the European network, so if anyone knows of an exotic
>tool-supplier in any European major city, I can handle it from there. And
>what's a #40 bit anyway? does that mean 4 regular millimeters thick, after all
>this trouble with fractional inches ?? By the way, when I told the
>toolshop-people that 'AN' stands for army/navy, they wanted to know which army
>I was talking about.
> Dirk Meulemans
> 100554.1236(at)compuserve.com
>
>
Hello Dirk,
I think mailorder from the USA is the best solution anyway. People know what
you are asking for, and the prices are reasonable. I have ordered tools and
supplies from several US companies, paid with my Eurocard and they have
shipped promptly. (usually by DHL or..eh...UPS.)
Avery in Texas would be my first choice.
Good luck with your project!
Espen Dahl
Building (fat?) RV-4 in Oslo, Norway
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Harmon Rocket 2 accident @ Longmont |
>I will certainly make sure I fit some anti-skid to my rudder pedal tubes.
I'm also trying to figure out a way to add something to the face of the
tubes (the part your foot rests on) to build them up a bit. I don't have
any seat cushions fitted yet, so I know I'm not in the correct seating
position, but it seems awfully easy for me to inadvertently apply some
brake while pressing the rudder pedal.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
waiting for finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
| Subject: | A few bad votes for Avery's (but we still use 'em) |
While everything I've heard about Avery's has been good (and god knows
I've spent a huge chunk of money there myself) I've had many problems
with delivery. I ordered the empennage kit at the same time I ordered
Avery's "empennage toolkit" and other tools (like their "C" dimpler). I
had my tailkit from Van's within the week, the tools from Avery's came
DRIBBLING in over the next MONTH. And, a few small things were even
missing. How frustrating. So then on subsequent orders I specified
"next day air" and STILL, I had to call a week later asking where the
heck my tools where. Ed Cole has also had similar problems with them.
Maybe they are just experiencing growing pains, but be prepared to
wait!!!
Q / cut here
-------------O-\-------------------------------------------------------
Mitchell Faatz mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com
Software Engineering Manager
Sagent Technology, Inc. (415) 614-6826
>----------
>From: Tim Lewis[SMTP:mailcenter.cmet.af.mil!lewis2(at)matronics.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 1996 11:11 AM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: exotic tools
>
>On 13 Aug 1996, Meulemans Dirk wrote:
>--snip--
>> How did other European builders solve this kind of problem? Mailorder
>> even the smallest drill bit from the USA ?
>
>If you do end up having to order from the states, I recommend
>
>Avery Enterprises
>2290 W. Hicks Rd., Hangar 54-1
>Ft Worth, TX, USA 76131
>800-652-8379
>817-439-8400
>
>It's a first class operation, emphasis on good quality tools and customer
>service. I got to see the place first hand when I took Avery's sheet
>metal workshop. I was impressed. I bought more than $1000 worth of
>tools from them, and I've been very satisfied.
>...
>
>Tim Lewis
>RV-6AQ #60023
>lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil
>capntim(at)aol.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | flyboy(at)awpi.com (John D. Ritter) |
| Subject: | Accident Report Briefs |
>If you want to see an unbiased overview of how people have screwed up in
>RV's you can scan through the NTSB accident reports on their web site at
>http://www.
>ntsb.gov/Aviation/months.html
>You will have to pick them out as all accident /incident reports are listed
>by month since 1983.
>It can be very educational to see what happened so history doesn't repeat
>itself. Far to many people have just run their fuel out selecting the wrong
>tank.
>Since April 1992 I found 42 reports on RV accidents (Most nonfatal
>thankfully). Of those 17 were mechanical, 1 unknown mechanical, the balance
>were pilot screwups. No way to tell pilot experience so you will have to
>come to your own conclusions, but, in my opinion inexperience can be read
>into alot of the reports.
>Rusty Gossard
>N47RG RV-4 Flying
In addition to this fine source of accident reports mentioned above, you
may also find more comprehensive information by calling or writing EAA's
Information Services. If you request information for one or more models of
experimental aircraft, they will send you FREE OF CHARGE accident/incident
data from various sources, including the NTSB. They also include service
difficulty alerts. You may reach them by calling...
414-426-4873
or writing...
EAA
EAA Aviation Center
P. O. Box 3086
Oshkosh, Wisconsin 54903-3086
John
Com/Multi/Inst/Airplane/Glider/CFII
flyboy(at)flyboy.com
http://www.flyboy.com/
*Toolin' Up*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Magargle <tmrv6(at)pop.erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Test cell break-in |
I built a shroud out of an old hot water heater tin shroud (the piece of tin
that covers the insulation around some brands of older hot water heaters),
some plywood and some scrap aircraft aluminum. Cut the plywood to a 1/4 pie
slice of the desired height
(about 2/3 prop height). I cut the tabs in the sheet metal every inch or so
to facilitate the curve and drywall screwed the tin to the plywood. I beefed
up the plywood at the top front and rear. I then attached the whole mess to
the engine with the scrap alum. at some of the bolts that you attach your
baffles with. Leave your baffles an oil cooler on to test your installation.
I realize that nobody's going to understand my rantings here, so if you are
interested I will fax a crude drawing to interested persons. I ran my engine
on a cold day & the shroud worked so good I thought that my oil temp gauge
was broken.... CHT's stayed under 325 at all power settings.
sorry about the delay I have been away.
Hope this helps a little.
Todd N92TM flying.
>I have a freshly overhauled 0-360 and I'm looking for ideas on breaking it in
>on the ground before taxi testing and the first flight. I saw the piece Tony
>did on shrouding for ground running. Does anyone have experience with this? I
>assume I'll use the manufacturers test cell procedure as far as power
>settings and running times go. 4 CHT's, 4EGT's, Ellison, and Light Speed
>Engineering. tmetty(at)umich.edu
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | frankv(at)pec.co.nz |
| Subject: | Re: exotic tools |
In <960813151454_100554.1236_EHK54-1(at)CompuServe.COM>, on 13 August 96
at 11:14 AM,
Meulemans Dirk said:
>Hello everyone,
> O.K...here's my first problem. My local toolshop (that's in Belgium)
>hasn't got exotic things like, for example, a 3/16" drill bit. The
>conversion table in my aircraft Spruce catalog tells me that 3/16"
>equals 4.762 millimeters.
[snip]
>How did other
>European builders solve this kind of problem? Mailorder even the
>smallest drill bit from the USA ?
I'm not a European (except by genetics) builder, but we have the same
problem here in NZ. I mailordered almost my tools from Avery's in the
US. I've bought them in two lots, since the freight costs can be
substantial. One large shipment is cheaper than several small ones.
You've missed a money-saving opportunity, since you could have got
Avery's to ship your tools to Van's who would then forward them to you
with your kit.
And what's a #40 bit anyway? does that mean 4
>regular millimeters thick, after all this trouble with fractional
>inches??
Neither. I think #40 comes from 40 gauge... Anyway, be careful since
larger numbers are smaller sizes.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | frankv(at)pec.co.nz |
| Subject: | Re: Slow leaking Tire Tubes |
>(snip)... My local car/truck dealer offers the option of nitrogen to
>his customers.
>>Supposedly, this lessens the loss of tire pressure. I've not tried t
>>can offer no opinion if it works or not. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner
>-------------------------------------------------
>>Bob:
>"Air" is 80% nitrogen, 17% oxygen and about 3% all of the other rare
>gases (hydrogen, helium, argon, radon! etc). Percentages are close
>but not exact.
>Other than the industrial nitrogen being "drier" than air (no water
>vapor) -
How much water vapour is there in air? And a fair amount of that will
collect in your compressor water trap anyway.
>I can't see why your local dealer is doing you such a favor. You are
>buying from him 80% of what you are getting for free from your
>compressor. Nitrogen is a smaller molecule and will thus permeate
>through the tube faster than air (combined of all of the gasses).
AFAIK, this is wrong. My understanding was that due to the molecular
structure or something, oxygen molecules can get through rubber but
nitrogen molecules can't. I vaguely recall from my high-school
chemistry that O2 molecules are smaller than N2 molecules.
Assuming the above to be true, then after some amount of time,
virtually all the oxygen will be gone from a tyre filled with air and
the tyre pressure down by 20%. Top it up with air, and you only have
20%*20% =4% oxygen in your tyres. Another top-up will leave less than
1% oxygen.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MiDiBu <midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Slow leaking Tire Tubes |
>
>"Air" is 80% nitrogen, 17% oxygen and about 3% all of the other rare gases
>(hydrogen, helium, argon, radon! etc). Percentages are close but not exact.
>
78% N2, 21% O2, 1% all other (mainly CO2).
>I think, for filling tires, this nitrogen thing is most
>likely nonsense.
>Elon
>ormsby(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
I agree. However, this myth may stem from the fact that all large airliner
tires are filled with Nitrogen. There were fires in the wheel well caused
by tires overheating and burning after takeoff. Unless you've really really
got got your RV loaded down (> 50,000 lbs.), it won't buy you a thing.
There are no other properties of N2 that give you an advantange over using air.
Mike Weller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: exotic tools |
Dirk,
I buy tools from the U.S. , not because we are totally metric, but because
there are many specialty aircraft tools that are hard to get from the local
hardware. I suggest that you get a tool catelogue from Avery's and buy his
RV starter kit. The freight costs to Australia were very reasonable and the
service is great (about 5 day delivery). I am sure Europe is a little
closer. Trying to build an A/C with standard mm fractional drills won't
work. Every call out on your plans is in imperial and you will go crazy and
make more mistakes than average. Bite the bullet and learn to think in
inches for a while. Also..... browse through "Sports Aviation" (what, you
don't belong to the EAA yet?) and buy some of the references they offer eg
light aircraft repair techniques, all the Bingellis books and their sheet
metal work reference.
Best of luck,
Leo Davies
6A builder, much further from Van's than you.
>Hello everyone,
> I received my RV-8 empennage kit yesterday, but I've been watching this list
>for a while. Thanks to Mark Richardson and John for pointing me to it.
> O.K...here's my first problem. My local toolshop (that's in Belgium) hasn't
>got exotic things like, for example, a 3/16" drill bit. The conversion table
>in my aircraft Spruce catalog tells me that 3/16" equals 4.762 millimeters.
>Which, of course, falls in between the standard 4 and 5 mm. bits.The toolshop
>does however have a 4.8 mm bit in stock. How (un)safe would it be to use that
>one? How did other European builders solve this kind of problem? Mailorder
>even the smallest drill bit from the USA ? Would I find this thing in any
>regular toolshop in the U.K.? After all, it used to be their colonies. I fly a
>B-727 for DHL on the European network, so if anyone knows of an exotic
>tool-supplier in any European major city, I can handle it from there. And
>what's a #40 bit anyway? does that mean 4 regular millimeters thick, after all
>this trouble with fractional inches ?? By the way, when I told the
>toolshop-people that 'AN' stands for army/navy, they wanted to know which army
>I was talking about.
> Dirk Meulemans
> 100554.1236(at)compuserve.com
>
> E-mail from: Meulemans Dirk, 13-Aug-1996
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Harmon Rocket 2 accident @ Longmont |
>>I will certainly make sure I fit some anti-skid to my rudder pedal tubes.
>
>I'm also trying to figure out a way to add something to the face of the
>tubes (the part your foot rests on) to build them up a bit. I don't have
>any seat cushions fitted yet, so I know I'm not in the correct seating
>position, but it seems awfully easy for me to inadvertently apply some
>brake while pressing the rudder pedal.
>
>Best Regards,
>Dave Barnhart
Dave, If you are using the floor mounted rudder pedals, you bet, you can get
into trouble. I would recommend covering the "hole" with flat stock. I had
trouble staying off of the brakes, once. Slid my foot down to stay off of
the brakes, cross-wind, needed some brakes---oops---foot went in to "hole",
heart went in to throat. I soved the problem by drilling new brake cylinder
mount holes in the rudder pedals so they would pivot forward, out of the way
of my size 12's. I never got around to filling in the holes but haven't
felt the need to since the fix.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator trim |
> I'm building a -6a and trying to deside on electric or
>manual elevator trim. I've flown a 6a with manual trim
>and would like to hear from some one who has electric trim
>and hear their opinion. My concern with electric is over controlling
>based on how little adjustment is needed with manual trim.????
>
> Ken Crabtree
> kennycobb(at)aol.com
>
>
Ken,
I've got the MAC trim and you're right about the overcontrolling problem. I
find that I have to just tap the switch to move the trim tab. I understand
that there is a device out now that will slow down the MAC. If so, I'd
recommend getting it.
BTW, I find that my trim tab (RV-6) only has to move through about 1/2"
total movement no matter the loading of the aircraft. I certainly don't
need the 4 to 5" total movement possible.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
>Is any of your work applicable to the RV6/6A cowling and baffling or is
>it just for the RV3/4 cowling with the "cheeks"? (Always looking for
>speed tips)!
>
>- Mitch
>RV-6AQME N727MF (reserved)
The engine baffling applies to the Lycoming engine regardless of the cowl.
An interesting side note; the LOM engine in my RV-3 comes complete from the
factory with an engine baffling box already installed of the same basic
concept. I have been able to reduce the air inlet from 52+ square inches to
25 square inches without changing the cowl, or engine baffling.
For the Lycoming, a baffling box is built on each side of the engine, each
box covering two of the cylinders. Each box is totally independent of the
cowling, so you get the same cooling with, or without, the cowl. (There is a
lot more drag without the cowl, so this is normally limited to taxi tests.
:-) )
In practice, the baffling boxes are just a modification of the existing
baffling design. Each box seals to the cowling at the cowl air inlet.
An additional sheet aluminum flange is made from two pieces to capture the
crankcase casting around the pushrod tube. The cylinder head baffling has a
flange formed as close to the cylinder as possible. An aluminum sheet is
added across these two new flanges to form the top of the box (with oversized
holes large enough for a spark plug socket for the spark plug wires).
An alum. sheet U channel is formed to go from the crankcase near the front
cylinder past the ring gear to the vertical inboard flange of the cowl, which
also connects to the top and bottom pieces of the baffling box.
So far, everything has been simple straight bends. However, the outer cowl
opening has a circular opening. I left extra material on the upper and lower
front baffle. By mounting a 3/4" diameter rod in my vice and using a rubber
mallet, I formed the outer edges of the upper and lower front baffle to form
the circular side shape.
The alum. mouth of the box was cut with 1/8" clearance behind the inlet cowl
lip. I fastened a strip of red silicone sheet around the alum. mouth of the
box so it overlapped the inlet cowl lip by 1/8", using an alum. strip on the
outside of the rubber to sandwich the material.
I realize this isn't very complete, but it is getting too long.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A powered RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder Flying 8 years
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, California USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Slow leaking Tire Tubes |
> Bladders of natural rubber, etc. And they get
>worse as they get older.
Yep, my Doctor said to expect that of natural bladders.
>I have had some luck using some of the latex "fix a flat"
>type liquid additive. It coats the inside of the rubber and
> extends the TBRs (time between refills) about 70% of the
>time. I went a season without refilling several old balls.
The Doctor also recommended a layer of Depends between the tube and the
tire, says that it will not stop the leak, but does make the leaked a lot
more manageable. :-)
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | frankv(at)pec.co.nz |
| Subject: | Drilling out rivets |
I have a problem or two, working on the skeletons of my HS & VS.
Specifically, I mashed the heads of the two rivets (1/8" universal)
that hold the RH root rib (rear half) to the HS-610/614 part of the
front spar of the HS.
I've now figured out what I was doing wrong with the gun (not holding
it down hard enough), and driven the corresponding rivets in the LH
side of the HS skeleton just fine.
However, in the meantime I've drilled out and reset these rivets a
couple of times. Now the holes are too big, a bit over 9/64" but under
5/32". I guess I need to put 5/32" rivets in, which is a nuisance
since I don't have any 5/32" rivets or gear to set them, and it'll
take some time & money getting that stuff here to NZ.
1. Can I use a 1/8" set on a 5/32" rivet? I don't have a squeezer
(yet), so I can't use the idea in the archive of pre-squashing an
extra long 1/8" rivet. Or is there some other way of attaching the rib
to the spar?
2. What's the right approach to drilling out rivets like these? I
drill into the head with a #30 bit, then use the back of a #30 bit to
snap the head off. But then, how to get the rest of the rivet out?
Drilling opened the hole up more. I punched them out the second time,
and I think I've bent back the corners of the rib flange.
So I gave up on the HS for a while to think about it, and worked on my
VS skeleton instead. Minor screw-up on one of the rivets attaching the
centre rib to the rear spar, drill and punch it out. That put a slight
bend in the rib flange.
Thinking that driving a rivet would close up that little itsy-bitsy
gap, I tried it, and the rivet started squashing behind the flange.
3. How do I get that partly-driven rivet out?
4. How do I straighten the bends out? Should I drill out the other two
rivets?
At this stage, I left the workshop and shut the door, went to bed and
pulled the blankets over my head.
Thanks in advance for any help people can offer,
Frank (pretending there's no workshop there for a couple of days).
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator trim |
> I've got the MAC trim and you're right about the overcontrolling problem. I
> find that I have to just tap the switch to move the trim tab. I understand
> that there is a device out now that will slow down the MAC. If so, I'd
> recommend getting it.
Matronics has the device that controls the sensitivity of the MAC trim tab
servo. Hop over to the home page (www.matronics.com) and take a peek at
the Governer Mark III.
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Slow leaking Tire Tubes |
I know some auto racers who use nitrogen inside tires. The myth (and
reason told to knowingless bystanders) is that pure nitrogen does not
change pressure with temperature as much as air. Makes you sound like a
more hard-core racer...
The real reason is that you can get a nitrogen tank filled to higher PSI at
a welding shop than you can get a scuba tank filled with air. Therefore
you get more tire fills out of a single canister. It's really 99% a
convenience issue.
-Mike
----------
From: MiDiBu[SMTP:hsv.mindspring.com!midibu(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 1996 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Slow leaking Tire Tubes
>
>"Air" is 80% nitrogen, 17% oxygen and about 3% all of the other rare
gases
>(hydrogen, helium, argon, radon! etc). Percentages are close but not
exact.
>
78% N2, 21% O2, 1% all other (mainly CO2).
>I think, for filling tires, this nitrogen thing is most
>likely nonsense.
>Elon
>ormsby(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
I agree. However, this myth may stem from the fact that all large
airliner
tires are filled with Nitrogen. There were fires in the wheel well caused
by tires overheating and burning after takeoff. Unless you've really
really
got got your RV loaded down (> 50,000 lbs.), it won't buy you a thing.
There are no other properties of N2 that give you an advantange over using
air.
Mike Weller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Jorgensen <rpjorgen(at)wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Recap of interest in panel pix |
I understand you have some rv-6 panel pictures from oshkosh
Are you making copies available?
How much would they cost?
thanks
*****************************************************************************
rick jorgensen
email address:rpjorgen(at)wheel.ucdavis.edu
On Tue, 13 Aug 1996, William Costello wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> So far 8 listers have shown interest in the panel pix: Jon Scholl, Tim
> Lewis, Mike Angiulo, Bruce Patton, Bill Watson, John Musser, Ed Bundy,
> and Ed Cole.
>
> Some have said the home page pix are great but, by nature of the
> medium, don't have the resolution they are looking for. Of course, pix
> don't have the resolution of (corrected to!) 20/20 eyeballs, but a lot
> better memory. :)
>
> I'll wait a few more days for any add-ons. Or if any of the 8 above
> have changed your mind (or if I mis-interpreted what you said), just
> drop me a note.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Bill Costello
> --
>
> Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
> Building RV-6 | Reserved N97WC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Harmon Rocket 2 accident @ Longmont |
I found that I could solve the rudder pedal and brake problem by splitting a
thick rubber hose down the side and gluing it on the tube and securing it
with safety wire. It wouldn't slip on the shoes and added room to use rudder
without getting brake.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
| Subject: | "INFOBOT" provides Aviation Related Sales Lists |
At the risk of trying something new, I submit this to the RV-LISTERS!:
(To my knowledge, this hasn't been done before!).
*DIRECTORY OF FREE INFO BY AUTO-RESPONSE E-MAIL*
Send email to infobot(at)pdsig.com for your email list- a copy of what's
available for sale of interest in Aviation, General, Homebuilt,
Commercial and Military ! Planes, parts, radios, instruments, etc,
etc Use the list to follow your interests by email.
Quickly, quietly, non-intrusively, you can get information about any
items listed by simply sending a message to those EMAIL addresses on
our FTP server. No information is required in the subject line or the
body of the message. The text file will simply be returned to you by
email for your review. You can act on the info or just file it away in
an e-mail folder marked "INFO" and you'll have it as long as you wish
to keep it! (And it's all FREE!)
Remember it's mail to: infobot(at)pdsig.com
not to me!
bj nash
AIRCRAFT REMANUFACTURING
1291 E. VISTA WAY, #150
VISTA, CA. 92084 (619) 749 0239 FAX: 749 6384
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling out rivets |
Frank,
There may be some metal working gurus out there with more experience but
here are a few tips (painfully acquired).
Like driving rivets drilling them out should be practised on scrap. Set a
dozen rivets in two bits of scrap and practive drilling them out.
Center punch the heads before you start to drill. Use a drill the same size
as the rivet shank but only drill to the depth of the head. Use a drive pin
punch of appropriate size to break the head out. Now finish drilling through
the rivet with a drill that is well undersize. eg #40 for a 1/8 rivet, #50
for a 3/32. You should be able to do this so that you don't touch the
material. You now have a stress relieving hole through the centre of the
rivet. Now have a good look at the whole situation: are there any proud
bits left on the factory head side? If so get a jeweller's file and tidy
up. Now... get some species of gripping pliers and gently turn the rivet in
the hole by holding the shop head. Sometimes with gentle traction the whole
thing will come out like a bolt from a hole.
If not..... now is the time to drive the remaining shaft out. Use the
correct size pin punch. SUPPORT the back of the material!!!. I use a lump
of lead left over from my elevator counter weights with lots of shop head
sized holes drilled in it so that no matter where the rivet is I can support
it from behind. This stops the bending in the back piece of material. You
may need a third hand to help with this. Driving the rivet should not take
much whack. If it doesn't come out with a wristy tap then you have some
proud material somewhere. Stop and look again. If you have expanded the
rivet between the two sheets of material the hole you drilled in the middle
may allow you to crush the rivet with pliers untill there is enough
clearance to wriggle it out.
The above technique works pretty well for me. I do remember being similairly
frustrated in the empennage, the wings much less, the fuselage not at all.
Van's parts are cheap so If you finish with a part you are unhappy with
throw it and order a new one. I have a collection of about 6 "bits" that
have cost me $50 in parts and $100 in postage. Trivial in the cost of the
airplane.
Cheers,
Leo Davies
Sydney, Australia
Fuse top skins, still drilling the odd rivet.
>I have a problem or two, working on the skeletons of my HS & VS.
>
>Specifically, I mashed the heads of the two rivets (1/8" universal)
>that hold the RH root rib (rear half) to the HS-610/614 part of the
>front spar of the HS.
>
>I've now figured out what I was doing wrong with the gun (not holding
>it down hard enough), and driven the corresponding rivets in the LH
>side of the HS skeleton just fine.
>
>However, in the meantime I've drilled out and reset these rivets a
>couple of times. Now the holes are too big, a bit over 9/64" but under
>5/32". I guess I need to put 5/32" rivets in, which is a nuisance
>since I don't have any 5/32" rivets or gear to set them, and it'll
>take some time & money getting that stuff here to NZ.
>
>1. Can I use a 1/8" set on a 5/32" rivet? I don't have a squeezer
>(yet), so I can't use the idea in the archive of pre-squashing an
>extra long 1/8" rivet. Or is there some other way of attaching the rib
>to the spar?
>
>2. What's the right approach to drilling out rivets like these? I
>drill into the head with a #30 bit, then use the back of a #30 bit to
>snap the head off. But then, how to get the rest of the rivet out?
>Drilling opened the hole up more. I punched them out the second time,
>and I think I've bent back the corners of the rib flange.
>
>So I gave up on the HS for a while to think about it, and worked on my
>VS skeleton instead. Minor screw-up on one of the rivets attaching the
>centre rib to the rear spar, drill and punch it out. That put a slight
>bend in the rib flange.
>
>Thinking that driving a rivet would close up that little itsy-bitsy
>gap, I tried it, and the rivet started squashing behind the flange.
>
>3. How do I get that partly-driven rivet out?
>
>4. How do I straighten the bends out? Should I drill out the other two
>rivets?
>
>
>At this stage, I left the workshop and shut the door, went to bed and
>pulled the blankets over my head.
>
>Thanks in advance for any help people can offer,
>Frank (pretending there's no workshop there for a couple of days).
>
>--
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
>Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
>Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
>PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
>http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Wow, That's Some Growth! |
Hello fellow RVers,
Something interesting I thought I'd share with everyone. In the last 2 days,
August 12 & 13, I have had almost 30 addition requests to the RV-List!
That brings the current total member count to 517! As some of you may recall,
the List hit 500 some time back. The membership declined slightly, however,
because I have been far more aggressive in keeping the List running smoothly
by deleting email accounts that cause bounces. I think the count dropped to
about 470 at one point. While a few of the new additions appear to be
previous members that had been removed for one reason or another, there are
a *lot* of new faces (or is that keyboards) on the List.
I am curious how some of the new people found out about the List? Every once
in a while I hear that the RV-List was mentioned in a magazine artical
somewhere and accounts for a spurt of subscriptions. How'd *you* hear about
the List?
I will be adding an additional 16Mb of memory to the SUN system that runs the
RV-List and crunchs that *HUGE* archive file every night, formatting it in the
various forms that are available via the Web and FTP. I will soon be adding a
new high performance 2Gb hard drive since with all the archive growth, the
disk space has been getting a little tight. That upgrade should occur in the
next few weeks. I don't anticipate it taking too long, since it should just
be a matter of formatting the new drive, copying all of the existing system
over and rebooting. Famous last words... And I said that I'd fly my RV-4
inside of a year's worth of building. That was 1988, sigh...
Enjoy,
Matt Dralle
RV-List Admin.
Matronics
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Airplane data |
Posting the data that I sent to Bob Skinner here
just for general information about my RV-6
NAME: Jerry Springer
"N" NUMBER: N906GS (RV-6 in all Van's ad's, Sport Aviation etc.)
E-MAIL ADDRESS: jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
MODEL: RV-6
DATE FINISHED: July 14,1989
TOTAL TIME: 800 hrs
ENGINE: O-360 A4A
PROP: Warnke 72x74
CANOPY: Tiltup
STARTER: Datsun 280Z with custom made mount
ALTERNATOR: Chevy Sprint
VOLT. REG.: Built into alternator
BATTERY: Sonic wheel chair 35 amp
EXHAUST: Larry Vetterman
ELEVATOR TRIM: Electric Mac servo (switch on stick)
FLAPS: Electric (Cessna 150 flap motor setup)
BRAKES: Cleveland TIRE PRESSURE: When it looks good
PANEL: Attitude, DG, RMI uNCODER, Navaid Device wing leveler,
Flybuddy GPS, Two 760 Val coms, PS Engineering 2000
intercom and my Walkman radio which plugs in the Panel,
LIGHTING: Bob Olds landing lights, Aeroflash strobes in each
wing, combination position light and strobe in
rudder in standard position, Instrument Post lights.
PAINT: Ditzler Deltron PPG with VERIPRIME PRIMER
INTERIOR: Custom made by me
INSURANCE: Liability
OTHER (MISC): Fiberglass wing root fareings, Jerry Harold no external
screw show pointed spinner.
PROBLEMS: Two different exhaust systems cracking and
breaking before the Vettermen (the best IMHO)
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) (Hillsboro,
OR)
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stephen Jackson Soule <ssoule(at)vbimail.champlain.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling out rivets |
pec.co.nz!frankv(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> 2. What's the right approach to drilling out rivets like these? I
> drill into the head with a #30 bit, then use the back of a #30 bit to
> snap the head off. But then, how to get the rest of the rivet out?
> Drilling opened the hole up more. I punched them out the second time,
> and I think I've bent back the corners of the rib flange.
> Hi Frank ... I can't answer all of your questions, but have
become familiar with drilling out rivets. I went to the hardware store
and bought a collection of the smallest drill bits I could find up to
1/8 diameter. I start the drilling process with the very smalest bit
and drill to a depth of about 75% of the length of the driven rivet.
Then I ream out the hole with the next larger size and keep working my
way into larger diameters, but never using a bit which is the diameter
of the hole/rivet. By the time you finsih, the rivet will be just a
shell without much of a head. What is left of the head can be easily
broken off and a small nail, especially filed so as not to be too sharp
is inserted in the hollow rivet shaft. Give the nail a sharp tap and
the rivet should pop out. If it doesn't, then you still have a little
more drilling and reaming to do. This will leave the hole in the
material completely undamaged so you can try to drive a straigh one next
time.
By the way, I think almost every builder has had to go through
the kind of thing you describe, so keep moving forward.
Huntington, Vt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Mayer <72652.670(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: exotic tools |
Dirk,
Leo Davies' post promped me to reply.. I second his Avery's suggestion,
further suggest that you buy his complete RV builder's kit. You'll buy
those items and more anyway, so why not start with as many tools as possible?
Steve
RV-4 Empennage
----- Forwarded Message -----
FROM: Leo Davies, INTERNET:leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU
DATE: 8/13/96, 8:08 PM
Re: Re: RV-List: exotic tools
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 08:47:22 -0800
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: RV-List: exotic tools
Dirk,
I buy tools from the U.S. , not because we are totally metric, but because
there are many specialty aircraft tools that are hard to get from the local
hardware. I suggest that you get a tool catelogue from Avery's and buy his
RV starter kit. The freight costs to Australia were very reasonable and the
service is great (about 5 day delivery). I am sure Europe is a little
closer. Trying to build an A/C with standard mm fractional drills won't
work. Every call out on your plans is in imperial and you will go crazy and
make more mistakes than average. Bite the bullet and learn to think in
inches for a while. Also..... browse through "Sports Aviation" (what, you
don't belong to the EAA yet?) and buy some of the references they offer eg
light aircraft repair techniques, all the Bingellis books and their sheet
metal work reference.
Best of luck,
Leo Davies
6A builder, much further from Van's than you.
>Hello everyone,
> I received my RV-8 empennage kit yesterday, but I've been watching this list
>for a while. Thanks to Mark Richardson and John for pointing me to it.
> O.K...here's my first problem. My local toolshop (that's in Belgium) hasn't
>got exotic things like, for example, a 3/16" drill bit. The conversion table
>in my aircraft Spruce catalog tells me that 3/16" equals 4.762 millimeters.
>Which, of course, falls in between the standard 4 and 5 mm. bits.The toolshop
>does however have a 4.8 mm bit in stock. How (un)safe would it be to use that
>one? How did other European builders solve this kind of problem? Mailorder
>even the smallest drill bit from the USA ? Would I find this thing in any
>regular toolshop in the U.K.? After all, it used to be their colonies. I fly a
>B-727 for DHL on the European network, so if anyone knows of an exotic
>tool-supplier in any European major city, I can handle it from there. And
>what's a #40 bit anyway? does that mean 4 regular millimeters thick, after all
>this trouble with fractional inches ?? By the way, when I told the
>toolshop-people that 'AN' stands for army/navy, they wanted to know which army
>I was talking about.
> Dirk Meulemans
> 100554.1236(at)compuserve.com
>
> E-mail from: Meulemans Dirk, 13-Aug-1996
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DTan522893(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wow, That's Some Growth! |
I would like to unlist. Please advise how to.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kpsmith(at)sprynet.com |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator trim |
Another consideration:
One of the guys in the local RV group here had the electric
trim run away on him at high speed cruise at altitude. The
full up trim, he described, was able to be overcome with
lots of stick force until he slowed, whereupon the stick
force became more friendly. Root cause was a failure in the
amplifier.
Upon further search, several cases of run away due to
shorted switches and wires were found, but no other reported
amp run away. [Know how to electrically disable fast!]
The thought of run away down, or run away at pattern
altitude led me to reconsider elictric trim. That manual
crank won't fail, and if it does, it won't add so much to my
work load. Fortunately, I am working slow enough on
empanage that the "change of heart" didn't require any
"change of work."
Ken Smith RV-6 Empanage in jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: exotic tools |
for tools contact Avery Enterprise at (817)439-3280 in the USA they ship
anywhere ,and can all include them in the kit from Vans.........George
Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | New Zealand RV'rs |
Are there any list readers out there from New Zealand. If so I 'd
appreciate a note with your email address as I have some specific
questions about the country (and flying RVs there) that I'd like to
discuss.
Please mail me at:
j.ken_hitchmough(at)mail.magic.ca
Thanks
Ken RV6A flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bennett" <bennett(at)healey.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator trim |
My elevator trim will have two switches, "coarse" and "fine". The
coarse switch will connect the servo to battery voltage, and the fine
switch will connect it to the output of a simple three terminal
regulator set at 8 volts adjustable. This about halves the speed of
the servo. Works well on the bench with all the mechanical load I can put on the
servo.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 Engine on order
> > I've got the MAC trim and you're right about the overcontrolling problem.
I
> > find that I have to just tap the switch to move the trim tab. I understand
> > that there is a device out now that will slow down the MAC. If so, I'd
> > recommend getting it.
>
> Matronics has the device that controls the sensitivity of the MAC trim tab
> servo. Hop over to the home page (www.matronics.com) and take a peek at
> the Governer Mark III.
>
> -Joe
>
> --
> Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
> Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
> 6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
> Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tom metty" <Tom=Metty%Foreman%MaintSvc(at)bfmailer.bf.umich.edu> |
| Subject: | Test cell break-in |
Thank you for your comments. Did you brace the shroud to the firewall? Also,
how ling did you run? The Lycoming procedure calls for a little over an hour
for run-in and then a 1 hour oil consumption run at rated output. I was
thinking of 3 to 5 hours of running before taxi testing. Would you let it
cool periodically or just run it? It was reassuring to hear how cool yours
ran. tmetty(at)umich.edu
P.S. I posted to the r.a.h. newsgroup and got no response. Well, at least I
didn't get flamed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | hqb(at)netcom.netcom.com (Henry Bibb) |
| Subject: | Re: Wow, That's Some Growth! |
Matt,
As a relatively quiet RV-list member (I'm a builder wanna-be), I'd like
to send a hearty 'Thank You' in your direction for maintaining this list.
Henry Bibb
Chapel Hill, NC
Rv-6?, RV-8? Someday
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com |
| Subject: | Drilling out rivets |
Frankv,
You got some good responses on drilling out rivets. I use something similar.
I simply take a #41 or smaller and carefully drill right through the entire
rivet. I then take a #30 and drill enough to get a bite in the head. The
head will then pop off easily. Once the head is off, you can usually just
tap out the body without harming the hole.
Partially driven rivet uses the same technique and it is even easier.
Also, if it looks like a rivet is going bad, STOP immediately. The less
expansion there is in the hole, the easier it is to fix.
To fix your rib flange, just take a hand seamer and bend it back. You may
want to try using C-clamps to clamp the rib tightly close to the hole if
possible. If not, you may want to insert the rivet so that you are using the
gun to press the rib flange down to the thick piece on your VS. You can
always order a new rib from VAn for the princely sum of $7.85, not that I
have ever had to do that.
Don't worry, you WILL get the hang of this.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Wow, That's Some Growth! |
> I will be adding an additional 16Mb of memory to the SUN system that runs the
> RV-List and crunchs that *HUGE* archive file every night, formatting it in the
> various forms that are available via the Web and FTP. I will soon be adding
a
> new high performance 2Gb hard drive since with all the archive growth, the
> disk space has been getting a little tight.
>
> Matt Dralle
> RV-List Admin.
> Matronics
I wonder if it wouldn't be appropriate for some of us to each send Matt
$5 to help pay for these additions. I, for one, really appreciate Matt's
managing of the list, and it's only fair that those of us who are taking
advantage of the list help Matt to cover his costs.
If 100 of us each sent Matt $5, that's only 20% of the subscribers, and it
should cover the costs of the upgrade.
Mine's in the mail today.
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keith Barr <kbarr(at)csn.net> |
| Subject: | New subscriber intro |
Hi all,
I am one of the "new 30" that Matt mentioned in his post on list
growth. I was a subscriber last year, but keeping up with the volume while
travelling about 6 months of the year was just not possible. I am back
now, and I have the tail kit to prove it! :^)
I was in Mecca (OSH) last week, and I finally made the first step in
beginning to satisfy my five-year urge to build by purchasing RV-6 tail
kit, S/N 23855 from Larry Lloyd of Sooke, British Columbia. I also took
advantage of numerous Oshkosh specials and purchased U.S. Tools
RV-builder's tool kit and Avery's dimpling arbor. I already have an air
compressor, so I guess mostly what I need now is a drill press, a band saw,
and a bench grinder (suggestions welcome).
In my normal life (ha) I own a small corporation that builds
atmospheric sampling instrumentation for use on aircraft such as NASA's
ER-2, Mitsubishi's Gulfstream II, DLR's Strato 2C (unfortunately this is a
dead project, but they are taking the probe anyway), and numerous aircraft
owned by the National Center for Atmospheric Research (C-130, L-188,
WB-57F), who, coincidentally, was my previous employer. In addition, I
supply real-time software support for LIDAR systems used on NASA's SR-71,
and USAF AC-130 Gunships.
I have an aerospace engineering degree from the University of
Colorado, which I am now wondering if it will be of any use, after
watching George & Becki Orendorff's empenage video (the confused facial
expressions never left my face...maybe it will all make more sense when I
actually have some drawings to look at).
Well enough rambling...looking forward to some good reading.
________________________________________ _____
| Keith Barr Westminster, Colorado, USA| \ \__ _____
| kbarr@sni.net http://www.sni.net/~kbarr| \ \/_______\___\_____________
| Voice:303-424-5057 Fax:303-456-2767|}--< /_/ AeroSys Engineering, Inc.`-.
| Aerospace-E.I.T. COMM-AS&MEL-IA-A&IGI| `------------,----,-------------'
|________________________________________| _/____/0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wow, That's Some Growth! |
>I wonder if it wouldn't be appropriate for some of us to each send Matt
>$5 to help pay for these additions. I, for one, really appreciate Matt's
>managing of the list, and it's only fair that those of us who are taking
>advantage of the list help Matt to cover his costs.
>
>If 100 of us each sent Matt $5, that's only 20% of the subscribers, and it
>should cover the costs of the upgrade.
>
>Mine's in the mail today.
>
>-Joe
Joe, That's a thoughtful idea. I recently subscribed to the GlaStar list
group, which costs $ 5.00. There is probably an average of 1 ro 2 E-mails a
day. Of course, it's a new kit with few builder's. I'm in the process of
uncrating a Glastar as we speak.
Anyway, what's Matt's snail mail address? Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harold Sutphin <hsutphin(at)magicnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wow, That's Some Growth! |
I'm all for it, if Matt will accept the donations. What say ye Matt?
Harold
A&P//RV-6A Starting on Wings
Joe Larson wrote:
> >
> I wonder if it wouldn't be appropriate for some of us to each send Matt
> $5 to help pay for these additions. I, for one, really appreciate Matt's
> managing of the list, and it's only fair that those of us who are taking
> advantage of the list help Matt to cover his costs.
>
> If 100 of us each sent Matt $5, that's only 20% of the subscribers, and it
> should cover the costs of the upgrade.
>
> Mine's in the mail today.
>
> -Joe
> > I will be adding an additional 16Mb of memory to the SUN system that runs the
> > new high performance 2Gb hard drive since with all the archive growth, the
> > disk space has been getting a little tight.
> >
> > Matt Dralle
> > RV-List Admin.
> > Matronics
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | Baffles & Cowl Flaps |
There is an interesting thread going on about baffling boxes added to the engine
and tantalizing suggestions about related performance improvements.
Van's design includes fairings for the upper cowl lip and could probably
benefit from some mods to the rear baffle (to help the flow curve down to the
rear cylinders). The post by Jim Ayers describes a sealed plenum over each pair
of cylinders. Fuel injected engines have the injection distributor on the top
of the case. This part and the case itself may benefit from being in the
cooling flow.
I think that efforts to improve flow over the top of the engine are important
but only part of the cooling story. The purpose of the plenum is to capture a
mass of air at high speed/low pressure and slow it down so that pressure
increases to the total pressure at that airspeed (plus whatever you get from
propeller pressure rise). This high pressure air flows through things like
fins, blast tubes and gaps around the plenum structure. The mass then exits
the cowling at a velocity somewhat less than that at the inlet (there are
exceptions). Momentum is the product of mass and velocity, the change in
momentum exerts a force on the structure known as momentum drag.
The most efficient cowl will use the minimum amount of air for the required
heat transfer, not waste any through gaps and exit at high velocity. Cowl
inlets must be sized to allow sufficient cooling at high power and climb
airspeeds with allowances for OAT (I hear it gets warm in Texas). These same
inlets provide cooling at altitude in winter in the frozen north. It would be
nice to have control over the amount of cooling to keep the engine warm and
possibly reduce drag. That exception I mentioned earlier had a variable
geometry inlet and outlet.
The design of the RV cowls makes it difficult to adjust the cowl inlet area
in flight. It would make more sense to try and control the mass flow
through the cowl at the outlet. A simple flap to close a portion of the
outlet area may help to reduce the flow through the cowl. Unfortunately
this would leave a blunt aft facing exit which would increase profile drag.
A more clever solution is required. I have a few ideas to try and would
like to hear if anyone on the list has experimented with cowl flaps.
David Fried
DF-6 C-____
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: Test cell break-in |
When I ground ran my rebuilt cermichromed engine, I used a shroud and a
"club" which loaded the engine and gave a nice concentrated airflow
through the shroud.
The break in run went something like this:
10 mins at 1400, 1600, 1800
30 mins at 2000, 2200
1 hour at 2400
I had it tied to my wife's car. To this day she complains that it's not
been the same since!!
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator trim |
Someone made comment about sensitive electric elevator trim and the
fact that they don't use the full travel. (Don't remember who)
Would not a cure for this be to increase the length of the arm on the
trim tab. This would decrease the overall movement and make the thing
less sensitive.
Ken 6A Flying (electric trim)
J.Ken Hitchmough(at)mail.magic.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Wow, That's Some Growth! |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB89DC.DA4E5E00
Joe,
I for one agree, and I really think we should keep this on a VOLUNTARY =
level. I'm sending my check as soon as I can locate Matt's address. =
Thanks for the suggestion. Al prober(at)iwaynet.net
----------
From: Joe Larson[SMTP:showpg.mn.org!jpl(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 1996 5:06 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wow, That's Some Growth!
> I will be adding an additional 16Mb of memory to the SUN system that =
runs the
> RV-List and crunchs that *HUGE* archive file every night, formatting =
it in the
> various forms that are available via the Web and FTP. I will soon be =
adding a
> new high performance 2Gb hard drive since with all the archive growth, =
the=20
> disk space has been getting a little tight.
>=20
> Matt Dralle
> RV-List Admin.
> Matronics
I wonder if it wouldn't be appropriate for some of us to each send Matt
$5 to help pay for these additions. I, for one, really appreciate =
Matt's
managing of the list, and it's only fair that those of us who are taking
advantage of the list help Matt to cover his costs.
If 100 of us each sent Matt $5, that's only 20% of the subscribers, and =
it
should cover the costs of the upgrade.
Mine's in the mail today.
-Joe
--=20
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB89DC.DA4E5E00
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BB89DC.DA4E5E00--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | New Zealand RV'rs |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB89DE.DCF1CDC0
Ken,
I also need to find someone from New Zealand who may be near Orewa. I =
would like to find a friend who I lost touch with. He's an MD in Orewa. =
Sorry to clutter the list with this. Al prober(at)iwaynet.net
----------
From: J.Ken Hitchmough[SMTP:magic.ca!J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 1996 8:37 AM
Subject: RV-List: New Zealand RV'rs
Are there any list readers out there from New Zealand. If so I 'd
appreciate a note with your email address
Ken RV6A flying
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BB89DE.DCF1CDC0--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wow, That's Some Growth! |
>M
>Henry Bibb
>Chapel Hill, NC
>Rv-6?, RV-8? Someday
>
You need to finish the -914 (I know you need to Hobbyair) and convert it
into an empennage kit. I'll loan you the tools to get started.
Richard E. Bibb TEL: 301-571-2507
Director ALT: 301-564-4404
Fore Systems Federal, Inc. FAX: 301-564-4408
6905 Rock Spring Drive, #800 email: rbibb(at)fore.com
Bethesda, MD 20817 PAGE: 800-719-1246
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
| Subject: | Re: Wow, That's Some Growth! |
Hey Matt,
How's bout posting that Matronics mailing address. Since I've personally
filled up a few meg of your hard drive with my stupid questions I figure I
might pay for some of the damages.
Hey, maybe you could take the proposed "new FAA's" approach and institute
users fees in order to maintain the equipment. They could go something like:
Bounced messages = $ .50 per bounce
Manual unsubscribe service = $3.00
Posting references to plastic airplanes = $5.00 fine.
Restarting the primer strand = $25.00
Just kidding of course, we all greatly appreciate what you do here. Great
Job.
Eric Henson
Dana Point, CA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joe Wrote <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
From: Joe Larson
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wow, That's Some Growth!
Date: Wednesday, August 14, 1996 10:12AM
>I wonder if it wouldn't be appropriate for some of us to each send Matt
>$5 to help pay for these additions. I, for one, really appreciate Matt's
>managing of the list, and it's only fair that those of us who are taking
>advantage of the list help Matt to cover his costs.
>If 100 of us each sent Matt $5, that's only 20% of the subscribers, and it
>should cover the costs of the upgrade.
>Mine's in the mail today.
>-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
6121 St. Croix Ave. N.
Golden Valley, Mn 55422 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
>>I will be adding an additional 16Mb of memory to the SUN system that runs the
>>RV-List and crunchs that *HUGE* archive file every night, formatting it in
>>the various forms that are available via the Web and FTP. I will soon be
>>adding a new high performance 2Gb hard drive since with all the archive
>>growth, the disk space has been getting a little tight.
>>
>> Matt Dralle
>> RV-List Admin.
>> Matronics
---------------
>I wonder if it wouldn't be appropriate for some of us to each send Matt
>$5 to help pay for these additions. I, for one, really appreciate Matt's
>managing of the list, and it's only fair that those of us who are taking
>advantage of the list help Matt to cover his costs.
>
>If 100 of us each sent Matt $5, that's only 20% of the subscribers, and it
>should cover the costs of the upgrade.
>
>Mine's in the mail today.
>
>Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
---------------
>Joe, That's a thoughtful idea. I recently subscribed to the GlaStar list
>group, which costs $ 5.00. There is probably an average of 1 ro 2 E-mails a
>day. Of course, it's a new kit with few builder's. I'm in the process of
>uncrating a Glastar as we speak.
>
>Anyway, what's Matt's snail mail address?
>
>Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
---------------
>I'm all for it, if Matt will accept the donations. What say ye Matt?
>
>Harold
>A&P//RV-6A Starting on Wings
---------------
>Joe,
>I for one agree, and I really think we should keep this on a VOLUNTARY =
>level. I'm sending my check as soon as I can locate Matt's address. =
>Thanks for the suggestion.
>
>Allan W. Mojzisik prober(at)iwaynet.net
---------------
Well, I would like to thank everyone that has so graciously offered to
help in the upgrade of the RV-List Server. I will gladly accept contributions
for the continued support of the RV-List. Operation of the List costs
on the order of $1200 a year in Internet access and other fees. The
hardware upgrade is costing about $600.
Your contribution of any amount you feel appropriate will be gladly accepted
and may be sent to the following US Mail address:
Matronics
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551
Alternatively, you may FAX a VISA or M/C number to the Matronics FAX line
indicating your contribution amount. Please include your Zip code and digits
of your billing address (i.e., "123 Airport Rd" would be "123").
Matronics FAX: 510-606-6281
Contributions should be tax deductable. I will provide a receipt upon
request.
Again, I would like to thank everyone for this most gracious offer to help
in the support of the RV-List. The RV-List is a wonderful resouce and I
have always felt that the work necessary to maintain it has been
worthwhile. I'm glad that you do to!
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
RV-List Admin.
Matronics
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
Fellow RVers, I received some E-mail concerning my comments on the Glastar
in a previous post. I'm not selling either my flying RV-6 or the one I'm
building. I'll be moving to Wyoming next summer and decided that I would
quit construction on the RV-6 wings so that I can ship them "flat". I had
visions of completed wings departing with the trailer at 70 mph and decided
that kit materials are easier to replace than all of the labor that I would
have in the wings. I've got the HS and VS and front and rear spars done on
my second RV-6 and decided to wait until I'm moved in to resume building.
To keep busy, I made a deal with a newly retired 747 pilot who is moving
here and was looking for a shop. I rented him my 30x45 (air conditioned:) )
Morton building and me until I move. He's then going to take over my hanger
at the airport and my little shop there when I leave.
I'm in the process of uncrating the 2,000 lb. (?) crate. Man, anyone
figuring on building a Glastar in a two car garage might want to consider
buying in sub-kits instead of in one crate. This thing is going to take up
a lot of room. It has really long wings. The quality of kit, packaging and
manuals is good. They did a really great job of crating and all of the
aluminum parts are finished to greater degree than our RV's. But, the kit
costs twice as much and doesn't have near the appeal that the RV's do to me.
Hope I won't be shunned by you RVer's as a traitor. Hopefully, you'll let
me continue to participate on the RV-list. If I learn anything helpful on
the Glasar list about sheet metal, I'll pass it along, yuk, yuk.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tom metty" <Tom=Metty%Foreman%MaintSvc(at)bfmailer.bf.umich.edu> |
| Subject: | Test cell break-in |
For the purposes of a home-brew test cell, what's the difference between a test
club and a C/S flight prop?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A few bad votes for Avery's (but we still use 'em) |
>While everything I've heard about Avery's has been good (and god knows
>I've spent a huge chunk of money there myself) I've had many problems
>with delivery.
Boy, that's sure not been *my* experience. I live in Arizona. I order on
Monday, shipping UPS ground, and the stuff always arrives on Thursday.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Oil cooler location |
I'd be interested in hearing how everyone has installed their oil cooler.
Van's reccomends installing it on the firewall, but offers info on
installing it behind the rear cylinder baffle, and the left cowl intake.
It seems that the firewall installation would be the easiest, and require the
least plumbing hassle.
I'm wrestling with the baffles now, and would appreciate any info to help my
decision.
Thanks,
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | frankv(at)pec.co.nz |
| Subject: | Re: exotic tools |
In <960814084715_72652.670_IHD2-1(at)CompuServe.COM>, on 14 August 96 at
04:47 AM,
Steve Mayer said:
> Leo Davies' post promped me to reply.. I second his Avery's
>suggestion, further suggest that you buy his complete RV builder's
>kit. You'll buy those items and more anyway, so why not start with
>as many tools as possible?
I agree. I bought the RV starter kit, and almost immediately found (ie
the second or third step of HS construction) that it didn't include a
hand dimpler. I haven't finished the HS yet, and have already bought
another $150 or so worth of tools (and no 10% discount on this lot!).
BTW, When I bought the starter kit, Avery's allowed me to add a few
items which also attracted the 10% discount.
Frank.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmbrown(at)ihighway.net (John M. Brown) |
| Subject: | Re: UpGrade Fund... |
Matt what type of Sun machine is this? Depending on the type
I may have several piles of RAM collecting dust that I could send ya.
jmbrown(at)ihighway.net
Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001 wrote:
>
> >>I will be adding an additional 16Mb of memory to the SUN system that runs the
> >>RV-List and crunchs that *HUGE* archive file every night, formatting it in
> >>the various forms that are available via the Web and FTP. I will soon be
> >>adding a new high performance 2Gb hard drive since with all the archive
> >>growth, the disk space has been getting a little tight.
> >>
> >> Matt Dralle
> >> RV-List Admin.
> >> Matronics
>
> ---------------
>
> >I wonder if it wouldn't be appropriate for some of us to each send Matt
> >$5 to help pay for these additions. I, for one, really appreciate Matt's
> >managing of the list, and it's only fair that those of us who are taking
> >advantage of the list help Matt to cover his costs.
> >
> >If 100 of us each sent Matt $5, that's only 20% of the subscribers, and it
> >should cover the costs of the upgrade.
> >
> >Mine's in the mail today.
> >
> >Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
>
> ---------------
>
> >Joe, That's a thoughtful idea. I recently subscribed to the GlaStar list
> >group, which costs $ 5.00. There is probably an average of 1 ro 2 E-mails a
> >day. Of course, it's a new kit with few builder's. I'm in the process of
> >uncrating a Glastar as we speak.
> >
> >Anyway, what's Matt's snail mail address?
> >
> >Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>
> ---------------
>
> >I'm all for it, if Matt will accept the donations. What say ye Matt?
> >
> >Harold
> >A&P//RV-6A Starting on Wings
>
> ---------------
>
> >Joe,
> >I for one agree, and I really think we should keep this on a VOLUNTARY =
> >level. I'm sending my check as soon as I can locate Matt's address. =
> >Thanks for the suggestion.
> >
> >Allan W. Mojzisik prober(at)iwaynet.net
>
> ---------------
>
> Well, I would like to thank everyone that has so graciously offered to
> help in the upgrade of the RV-List Server. I will gladly accept contributions
> for the continued support of the RV-List. Operation of the List costs
> on the order of $1200 a year in Internet access and other fees. The
> hardware upgrade is costing about $600.
>
> Your contribution of any amount you feel appropriate will be gladly accepted
> and may be sent to the following US Mail address:
>
> Matronics
> PO Box 347
> Livermore, CA 94551
>
> Alternatively, you may FAX a VISA or M/C number to the Matronics FAX line
> indicating your contribution amount. Please include your Zip code and digits
> of your billing address (i.e., "123 Airport Rd" would be "123").
>
> Matronics FAX: 510-606-6281
>
> Contributions should be tax deductable. I will provide a receipt upon
> request.
>
> Again, I would like to thank everyone for this most gracious offer to help
> in the support of the RV-List. The RV-List is a wonderful resouce and I
> have always felt that the work necessary to maintain it has been
> worthwhile. I'm glad that you do to!
>
> Thank you,
>
> Matt Dralle
> RV-List Admin.
> Matronics
>
> --
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler location |
>I'd be interested in hearing how everyone has installed their oil cooler.
> Van's reccomends installing it on the firewall, but offers info on
>installing it behind the rear cylinder baffle, and the left cowl intake.
>
>It seems that the firewall installation would be the easiest, and require the
>least plumbing hassle.
>
>I'm wrestling with the baffles now, and would appreciate any info to help my
>decision.
>
>Thanks,
>Ed Bundy
>ebundy2620(at)aol.com
Van now sells a firewall installation kit to duct a 3 inch hose
onto the oil cooler that they sell. It's not in the Optional Parts Catalog
yet, but it is available and I believe it is ordered as:-
EA 3INCHOILCOOLER price $31
They took my order 2 days ago, and it hasn't bounced yet ... :^)
but check with Vans to see if I got the correct part number and cost. It
sounds like it should save some time. I also agree with the easier and
less hassle comment above. Some planning is needed though to get the large
diameter hose around the engine mount without too sharp a radius.
Many local RVs use this firewall mounted approach (copying Steve
Barnards, I think :^) and all have sufficient cooling and no one has moved
it yet!
Gil (duct it to the firewall) Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
RV6A, #20701 ... buying engine $tuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler location |
>I'd be interested in hearing how everyone has installed their oil cooler.
> Van's reccomends installing it on the firewall, but offers info on
>installing it behind the rear cylinder baffle, and the left cowl intake.
>
>It seems that the firewall installation would be the easiest, and require the
>least plumbing hassle.
>
>I'm wrestling with the baffles now, and would appreciate any info to help my
>decision.
>
>Thanks,
>Ed Bundy
>ebundy2620(at)aol.com
Van now sells a firewall installation kit to duct a 3 inch hose
onto the oil cooler that they sell. It's not in the Optional Parts Catalog
yet, but it is available and I believe it is ordered as:-
EA 3INCHOILCOOLER price $31
They took my order 2 days ago, and it hasn't bounced yet ... :^)
but check with Vans to see if I got the correct part number and cost. It
sounds like it should save some time. I also agree with the easier and
less hassle comment above. Some planning is needed though to get the large
diameter hose around the engine mount without too sharp a radius.
Many local RVs use this firewall mounted approach (copying Steve
Barnards, I think :^) and all have sufficient cooling and no one has moved
it yet!
Gil (duct it to the firewall) Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
RV6A, #20701 ... buying engine $tuff
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark D Hiatt" <OttoPilot_MSN(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Li$t Contributions. |
It's funny what people are scared of and what they'll routinely do. I have
no problem at all giving a fifteen year old my VISA card at a restaurant,
as long as they're wearing a uniform that looks like they work there. I've
got no idea whether they're copying-down the number on their break so
they can order new software or CDs or concert tickets or whatever, but
I do it all the time.
I also have no problem shopping via the Internet. Tab over to the field
with the card number and type away. No problem on the phone, either.
But I just can't send anything on paper. Those little cards for magazine
subscriptions, etc. I don't send my VISA card number via FAX, either.
I don't like the idea of my number just laying around, somewhere.
I've called and asked Matt to call me back for my contribution. I'm a very
firm believer in paying for value and there is a BAG of value in this list,
nearly every day! I just don't want to leave my number on a voicemail
or FAX sheet, somewhere.
I know people who skydive, who won't ride motorcycles. And lots of
people think I'm nuts for wanting to "build one of them scary little
airplanes!" too.
Patiently awaiting the UPS truck with my tail kit, I remain,
Mark D Hiatt
OttoPilot_MSN(at)msn.com
Aviation Forum Manager,
The Microsoft Network
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Elevator trim |
I've used the MAC trim in my 6 for nearly 350 hours. Over control, under
normal circumstances, has never been a problem. I have a four way switch on
the stick which makes it extremely convienient. I have experienced one
problem, however. I originally used a coolee hat switch from a UH-1 to
operate both the elevator and aileron servos. This switch required the
in-line installation of electronic relays. The relays were from MAC. Last
winter I replaced the coolee hat switch with the new stick handle from MAC
that utilizes four independent micro-switches. The wiring instructions
indicate that if you are only using trim on one stick it is not necessary to
install the relays. However, if you plan to have a set of trim switches on
the passenger stick, the relays are necessary. The instructions provide
wiring diagrams for each arrangement. I had no immediate plans for a
passenger trim. However, since the relays were already installed, and had
worked fine for over 300 hours, I decided to leave them in place and wire
accordingly. On my way back from Sun-n-Fun I stopped by to visit friends in
San Antonio, and went for a joy ride one evening. I had just taken off,
leaveled at about 2000' AGL, travelling about 170 mph, when all of a sudden,
the trim went to full up elevator. By the time I figured out what was going
on, which was a very short period of time, the servo was fully pegged. I can
tell you it takes both hands to keep the airplane level in this condition. I
slowed the airplane down, which helped considerably, and attempted to feed in
down elevator trim. The servo would respond, but if I released the down
switch the servo would return to full up. Had I been thinking, I should have
cut the power to the servo when it was in an acceptable position, either with
the breaker or master switch. I didn't do either, but fortunately the servo
finally stopped in a manageable position. I immediately landed the plane.
After considerable trouble shooting, I found the relay had gone bad and
created the run away. I removed both relays and rewired the trim switchs. I
have flown the plane an additional 50 hours since the incident with no
problems. I did report this problem to MAC.
Lesson learned: have some type of disabling device (switch or breaker) if you
install an electric trim. Other than this episode, I have been very pleased.
Perhaps, in my case wisdom is fleeting; I have installed another electic
trim in my RV8 elevator.
Sorry for such a long answer.
Rick McBride
RV6 N523JC
350 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <zgifford(at)titude.arc.nasa.gov> (Zelda Gifford) |
| Subject: | Re: Wow, That's Some Growth! |
Hi Matt n everybody,
July 18 I picked up my new (33 hours) RV-6A from
Gene Kramp, San Diego; it's his second one.
Had it painted and flew it to Oshkosh. Wadda
dream machine! IO-360. whooosh.
How did I hear about the list? I picked up
a biz card at the RV tent in Oshkosh.
I have a query (sorry if this is in the
FAQs)--how do I get in touch with
Mike Seager? He's supposed to be a CFI
with about 800 hours in RVs.
Thanks in advance.
Zelda in N8235C
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler location |
You wrote:
>
>I'd be interested in hearing how everyone has installed their oil cooler.
> Van's reccomends installing it on the firewall, but offers info on
>installing it behind the rear cylinder baffle, and the left cowl intake.
>
>It seems that the firewall installation would be the easiest, and require the
>least plumbing hassle.
>
>I'm wrestling with the baffles now, and would appreciate any info to help my
>decision.
>
>Thanks,
>Ed Bundy
>ebundy2620(at)aol.com
>
Hi Ed,
I don't know beans about this, but, in his book titled Speed With Economy,
Kent Paser (who spent years studying and improving the efficiency of a Mustang
II) says:
So, I proceeded to mount my oil cooler on the back of the engine, using two
conveniently located bolts on the engine accessory case. Air from the plenum
is now directly fed to the full inlet area of the oil cooler, in a rectangular
configuration, just about as efficient as you can posibly get: no long
flexible air hoses which formerly impeded the air flow to the cooler, and
also, no long flexible oil hoses from the oil cooler to the engine accessory
case. The oil lines can now be short and rigid, with only a small expansion
loop. This really helps to unclutter the engine compartment too.
Thought I'd pass this along for what it is worth. His book is about 170 pages
documenting how he made his plane more efficient over a number of years. If
you want to find the current cost, etc his address is
Paser Publications
5672 West Chestnut Ave
Littleton, CO 80123
303-979-3666
Hope this helps,
Bill Costello
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 | Reserved N97WC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeffery Lorimor <x1lorimo(at)exnet.iastate.edu> |
This plane is still for sale...owner anxious to sell.
Boone, IA based RV-6 for sale. Tan with blue stripe, sliding canopy. 200
hrs on airframe; 700 hrs on 0-320-E2D on 1st major. Logs available. Nav
lights, strobes, panel mounted GPS, mode C. Won Oshkosh workmanship award &
was North Central EAA Grand Champion. Priced in the 50's.
call 515/432-5709
or 515/432-3660
Folks- this is not my airplane, but I will attest that it's a very very nice
one.
If you want to respond to me directly via e-mail, I will pass any message
on. (The e-mail address is X1LORIMOR(at)EXNET.IASTATE.EDU
Jeff Lorimor
skinning fusalage
Boone, IA
x1lorimo(at)exnet.iastate.edu (...that's x-one, not x-ell)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com (Stephen Paul Johnson) |
| Subject: | Re: Wow, That's Some Growth! |
You wrote:
>
>I am curious how some of the new people found out about the List?
Every once
>in a while I hear that the RV-List was mentioned in a magazine artical
>somewhere and accounts for a spurt of subscriptions. How'd *you* hear
about
>the List?
>
Van's booth had some handout cards about the list. Perhaps he is
beginning to realize how much of a factor it is in getting new
builders. Lots of companies have videos and flashy exhibits, but this
list is rather unique. By the way, I'll be ordering Governors for the
RV-8.
Steve Johnson
spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen ) |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator trim |
You wrote:
>
>I've got the MAC trim and you're right about the overcontrolling
problem. I
>find that I have to just tap the switch to move the trim tab.
>BTW, I find that my trim tab (RV-6) only has to move through about
1/2"
>total movement no matter the loading of the aircraft. I certainly
don't
>need the 4 to 5" total movement possible.
Then why not just put a trim tab horn on with a longer arm?
finn
finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler location |
>I'd be interested in hearing how everyone has installed their oil cooler.
> Van's reccomends installing it on the firewall, but offers info on
>installing it behind the rear cylinder baffle, and the left cowl intake.
>It seems that the firewall installation would be the easiest, and require the
>least plumbing hassle.
>I'm wrestling with the baffles now, and would appreciate any info to help my
>decision.
>Ed Bundy
>ebundy2620(at)aol.com
Ed, I considered all three options: FW mounted, behind #4 cylinder and on
the left front horizontal baffle. I decided to go to the LF hor. baffle.
Advantages and dis-advantages:
FW mount: PRO - solid mounting, more support for oil cooler, short routing
of oil hose, easy to make flapper valve to control air temp. CON - must use
expensive 3" scat tube which must be carefully routed and supported and
protected from chafing, more flex on flexable oil lines than in the other
2 locations. You are removing a large volume of air from one of the rear
cylinders which could cause uneven cooling of that cylinder. Clutters up a
firewall and makes servicing mags, etc. more difficult. If you go this
route, make sure that you can get to everything that needs service.
Behind #4 cylinder: PRO - Short lengths of hose required and probably the
least costly installation. Relatively out of the way for easier access
when working on the engine.
CON - may remove needed cooling air from cylinder 4, generally must
fabricate a bracket to offset the cooler if installing with a dynafocal
mount to clear an engine mount tube and more difficult to fabricate a
control door to control oil temps (if desired).
Left front Hor. baffle: PRO - fairly easy to fabricate and easy to install
adjustable door for temp control, keeps back of engine uncluttered, moves a
little weight farther foward (it seems most RV's with wood or fixed pitch
metal props crowd the aft CG a bit), takes it's cooling air before getting
to cylinders possibly not taking as much cooling air from the cylinders and
lessening the chance for un-even cylinder cooling.
CON - must purchase more hose and figure out an airworthy method of routing
and securing hose.
Wherever you mount your cooler make sure to use long bolts through both
flanges with spacers inbetween the flanges. I've seen several RV's with
coolers mounted utilizing only one flange and believe that this increases
the chances of the oil cooler flange cracking. You don't want a wild oil
cooler flopping around inside your engine compartment. Bob Skinner RV-6
BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Harmon Rocket 2 accident @ Longmont |
>>>I will certainly make sure I fit some anti-skid to my rudder pedal tubes.
>>
>>I'm also trying to figure out a way to add something to the face of the
>>tubes (the part your foot rests on) to build them up a bit. I don't have
>>any seat cushions fitted yet, so I know I'm not in the correct seating
>>position, but it seems awfully easy for me to inadvertently apply some
>>brake while pressing the rudder pedal.
>>
>>Best Regards,
>>Dave Barnhart
>
>Dave, If you are using the floor mounted rudder pedals, you bet, you can get
>into trouble. I would recommend covering the "hole" with flat stock. I had
>trouble staying off of the brakes, once. Slid my foot down to stay off of
>the brakes, cross-wind, needed some brakes---oops---foot went in to "hole",
>heart went in to throat. I soved the problem by drilling new brake cylinder
>mount holes in the rudder pedals so they would pivot forward, out of the way
>of my size 12's. I never got around to filling in the holes but haven't
>felt the need to since the fix.
>Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>
>
>
I wore out the brake pads on the right wheel before I realized that I was
inadvertantly applying the brakes _all_ the time while taxiing. My size
12's would press on the pedal without my noticing it.
The solution/fix was to cut the vertical tube and extend it about 1 1/4".
That, with the flat homebuilder pedals, keeps my big feet off the brakes
except when I want to use them.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Test cell break-in |
>For the purposes of a home-brew test cell, what's the difference between a
test
>club and a C/S flight prop?
>
The test club provides the necessary load delivers the cooling air better
for ground run ins.
Lycoming states " For optimum cooling during ground testing, a test club
should be used. Where this is impossible, the regular prop can be
substituted but cylinder head temperatures must be monitored closely."
A word of caution, excessive ground running can be hard on your engine. You
can glaze the cylinders if you do it wrong. Follow your cylinder
manufacturers instructions or you may be unable to seat your rings. Factory
new engines DO
NOT require additional ground run in as delivered by lycoming.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator trim |
>Someone made comment about sensitive electric elevator trim and the
>fact that they don't use the full travel. (Don't remember who)
>
>Would not a cure for this be to increase the length of the arm on the
>trim tab. This would decrease the overall movement and make the thing
>less sensitive.
>
>Ken 6A Flying (electric trim)
>J.Ken Hitchmough(at)mail.magic.ca
>
>
Twas me that spoke of using much less than the full trim. I've thought of
lengthening the arm but, hey, I've gotten used to tippy tapping on the
switch. Besides, it might slow my RV down 0.003 mph if I lengthened that arm.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)Op.Net> |
Matt,
I don't know the dates of the new subscriptions, but I'll bet many came
during and after OSHKOSH. In the three days I was there, I met many RV-
builders and Dreamers who were unaware of the list or didn't know how to
join. This was particularly so during Van's Banquet. People saw the special
table for the
Matronics-listers and inquired about the list.
We all hope you are able to keep up the list as you've been doing.
Louis Willig, larywil(at)op.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Meulemans Dirk <100554.1236(at)CompuServe.COM> |
thanks to everyone who replied to my exotic tools question. They have become
less exotic. I've ordered the Avery catalog, as most of you suggested.Dirk
Meulemans
E-mail from: Meulemans Dirk, 15-Aug-1996
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EllenLane(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: exotic tools |
Dirk,
Seeing my everyday tools referred to as "exotic" reminded me of being in
Australia where Budweiser was on the menu under foreign imports(and it cost
more!)
Don't forget to order the #41 bits for the skins (they dimple out to a
nice #40 size hole). I have probably broken more bits tripping over the
drill cord than actually wearing them out. I'm using a Panasonic 12 volt
drill now and find it an absolute joy to work with, the quick twist keyless
chuck is as fast as the quick release gizmos. Unless you make no mistakes
you're going to wish you had a 12" #30 & #40 bit too, they can practically
drill around corners! I found the adjustable depth gauges well worth the
money. They enable you to anchor the bit with your finger without cutting it
and easily color code your bits (silver #40, copper #30) lessening those late
night goofs. The cheapie $20 B&D battery screwdriver earns its keep when
deburring. I found the deburring bit fits in the hex hole and some duct tape
actually provides enough torque. Kevin Lane Portland, OR -6A, fuse
almost done.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: UpGrade Fund... |
>Well, I would like to thank everyone that has so graciously offered to
>> help in the upgrade of the RV-List Server. I will gladly accept
>contributions
>> for the continued support of the RV-List. Operation of the List costs
>> on the order of $1200 a year in Internet access and other fees. The
>> hardware upgrade is costing about $600.
>>
>> Your contribution of any amount you feel appropriate will be gladly
>accepted
>> and may be sent to the following US Mail address:
>>
>> Matronics
>> PO Box 347
>> Livermore, CA 94551
More than worth the small sum I will send Matt. Thanks, Matt, for your time
and effort.
Its voluntary, but come on RVlisters--send Matt five bucks (or more!)
Jon
RV6 Empennage
Ordering Wing$ $oon
scholl.jon(at)bcg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Test cell break-in |
<< The break in run went something like this:
10 mins at 1400, 1600, 1800
30 mins at 2000, 2200
1 hour at 2400 >>
If anyone's interested, I can post the break-in sheet that Lycoming included
with my engine. It lists times, MP, RPM, temperatures, and fuel burn.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wow, That's Some Growth! |
<< Joe, That's a thoughtful idea. I recently subscribed to the GlaStar list
group, which costs $ 5.00. There is probably an average of 1 ro 2 E-mails a
day. Of course, it's a new kit with few builder's. I'm in the process of
uncrating a Glastar as we speak.
Anyway, what's Matt's snail mail address? Bob Skinner RV-6
BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>>
AIIIEEEE!!! Sigh, another "real" airplane builder succumbs to the siren's
song of plastic... Well, at least it's *half* aluminum.
Seriously, I think the Glastar is one sweet airplane, but aren't you also in
the process of building a 6A (in addition to your flying 6)? Will you adopt
me?
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Baffles & Cowl Flaps |
A recent issue of my newsletter had a complete description and several
pictures of an adjustable cowl flap that I designed. If you would like to
get that issue and the other 1996 back issues, send $5.00 to Van's Air Force,
Tri-State Wing, 422 Savannah Ridge Drive, St. Charles, MO 63303. If you
E-mail me your address, I will send the newsletters and they can cross your
check in the snail mail.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: UpGrade Fund... |
Put me down for five bucks. The check is in the mail . Thanks Matt.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wow, That's Some Growth! |
>AIIIEEEE!!! Sigh, another "real" airplane builder succumbs to the siren's
>song of plastic... Well, at least it's *half* aluminum.
>
>Seriously, I think the Glastar is one sweet airplane, but aren't you also in
>the process of building a 6A (in addition to your flying 6)? Will you adopt
>me?
>
>Ed Bundy
Ed, Put the 2nd RV on hold and, no, I won't adopt you. I've got enough
problems thinking about smelling that fiberglass and putting two daughters
through college.
Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Panel pix coming to close |
Hi Folks,
So far 13 listers have shown interest in the panel pix: Jon Scholl, Tim
Lewis, Mike Angiulo, Bruce Patton, Bill Watson, John Musser, Ed Bundy,
Ed Cole, Al Mojzisik, Dave Barnhart, Ross Mickey, Ron Vandervort, and
Rick Jorgensen.
I'll put this to bed by the weekend, price the prints and padded
envelopes at Office Max, get the scope on the postage and email you
guys a cost. Then I'll let you know and you can drop me a check and
I'll get the pix to you.
Best regards,
Bill Costello
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 | Reserved N97WC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling out rivets |
On Wed, 14 Aug 1996 frankv(at)pec.co.nz wrote:
> However, in the meantime I've drilled out and reset these rivets a
> couple of times. Now the holes are too big, a bit over 9/64" but under
> 5/32". I guess I need to put 5/32" rivets in, which is a nuisance
> since I don't have any 5/32" rivets or gear to set them, and it'll
> take some time & money getting that stuff here to NZ.
Welcome to the "have I ruined my airplane?" club. No, just about anything
can be fixed. You have a number of options. Using the 5/32 rivets sounds
like a good solution. You could rivet on a new rib flange if the old one
is too badly bent. Just use the same or thicker material as the rib, and
2 or three #4 rivets to rivet the new flange to the old rib.
> 1. Can I use a 1/8" set on a 5/32" rivet? I don't have a squeezer
> (yet), so I can't use the idea in the archive of pre-squashing an
> extra long 1/8" rivet. Or is there some other way of attaching the rib
> to the spar?
I think correct practice allows you to use a 5/32 rivet set or larger, or
even a flat set, but not a smaller set. That would mash the rivet. It is
okay to flatten the factory head slightly as you drive the rivet, but
there are limits (I don't have the exact specification handy). You could
also drill it out to 3/16 and use #3 bolts, but you would have to be
really careful with the edge distances, and you would be removing a
substantial amount of the cross section of the 610 and 614. I'd ask Van's
first. I substituted bolts on one of my aileron mounts - with Van's
approval. I'd try the 5/32 rivets first, though.
> 2. What's the right approach to drilling out rivets like these? I
> drill into the head with a #30 bit, then use the back of a #30 bit to
> snap the head off. But then, how to get the rest of the rivet out?
> Drilling opened the hole up more. I punched them out the second time,
> and I think I've bent back the corners of the rib flange.
The best method for me is not to drill or punch but to grab the shop head
from behind and pry or twist out the remainder of the rivet. On thin
metal parts, prying the old rivet out with a small pair of sidecutters
works best - after drilling off the factory head of course. On thicker
metal, sometimes you can grab the shop head with a good pair of pliers
and twist it out. On really thick stuff a punch is the only way to go. I
have never drilled a rivet all the way out without damaging the hole. In
your case you had a tough one because you had a thick piece of metal on
top of a thinner piece (the rib flange). Punching out the rivet will tend
to bend the thin metal, as happened to you. I've done the same thing. I
think the answer might be to support the flange with, say, a steel block
with a shop head-sized hole drilled in it while someone else punched the
rivet out. I havn't tried this though.
> So I gave up on the HS for a while to think about it, and worked on my
> VS skeleton instead. Minor screw-up on one of the rivets attaching the
> centre rib to the rear spar, drill and punch it out. That put a slight
> bend in the rib flange.
>
> Thinking that driving a rivet would close up that little itsy-bitsy
> gap, I tried it, and the rivet started squashing behind the flange.
>
> 3. How do I get that partly-driven rivet out?
That's a tough one. Maybe drill off both the factory head and the shop head
and remove the remaining middle bit with pliers? If all else fails you
can make a new rib flange.
> 4. How do I straighten the bends out? Should I drill out the other two
> rivets?
You might consider driving the replacement rivet the other way around
i.e. put the factory head against the bent flange. That way you can put
pressure with the rivet gun against the flange to close up the gap before
you pull the trigger. Sometimes you can get a c-clamp in there to clamp
the the bent flange where it should be, then rivet normally.
Someone needs to write a book on how to salvage bad rivets! All my
official references make it sound like you are supposed to throw your
airplane away and start over!
Curt Reimer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: A few bad votes for Avery's (but we still use 'em) |
Ditto for Australia,
If Avery has anything on back order he meets the shipping to Aus (usually
more than the cost of the back ordered item). Best small business I have
ever dealt with (Van's a close second).
LD
>>While everything I've heard about Avery's has been good (and god knows
>>I've spent a huge chunk of money there myself) I've had many problems
>>with delivery.
>
>Boy, that's sure not been *my* experience. I live in Arizona. I order on
>Monday, shipping UPS ground, and the stuff always arrives on Thursday.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Dave Barnhart
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | elon ormsby <ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov> |
| Subject: | Re:Novice Qs (CHAT) |
CHAT stuff so here if inclined. Sorry this ended up longer than I
anticipated.
(much sniped) How might I decide what to build, say RV6 vs Glasair TD or FT?
I guess the RV fast build and the Glasair are about the same time to build.
I know about the possibility of allergic reactions to chemicals and the need
for a heated shop.
john(at)mail.hroads.com
____________________________
John you have requested a tall order and too much to cover in one e-mail.
We all fall in love with different airplanes for many reasons but some are
more compelling than others. For some people it is the aesthetic beauty
and/or symmetry for others it is performance, simplicity, aerobatics
ability, COST, etc. There are absolutely hundreds of reasons for thousands
of people. But bottom line is you are GOING TO HAVE BUILD IT!
Think about it. You are going to spend more that $30k-$50k of your hard
earned money and 2-5 (or longer!) years of your life with an inanimate
mistress. You will give it life but it will compete for all aspect of your
waking (and dreaming) being. All free-time, social, and work decisions will
be made by constantly weighing the merits and progress of the "project".
You will eat, smell, feel, cut, rub, curse, dream, fantasize, brag and show
your "labor of love". YOU GOT TO LIKE THE MATERIALS YOU ARE USING or you
will never finish the project.
What I'm saying is people usually fall into two camps. Most all like working
or creating with their hands, have had positive experience in their past or
want to begin or learn new skills. However, you have to ask yourself what is
your mind set. If you had a chance to take either wood shop or metal shop in
high school which one would you have chosen. Some people like the "warmth"
of wood, the cutting or sanding to within the less precise width of a pencil
line, the ease of cutting and the ease of fixing mistakes and not being held
to extreme precision all of the time. On the other hand, others enjoy
precision lay-out of holes, very careful cutting and bending of metal,
careful hand filing to a layout line. Metal is cleaner(no glass dust) and
there is no resin smell permeating the whole house and neighborhood. You do
have drill chips and dirt like any shop. Others LOVE THE RESIN SMELL - it
clears the sinuses like the smell of some high altitude mountain plants.
There is NO RIGHT OR WRONG TECHNOLOGY the question is what do YOU want to
work with (remember you will be doing it for years). Absolutely, visit
ongoing projects using BOTH metal and glass technologies. Look at the shop
environment, the tools, the labor, and the freedoms allowed in construction
needed to create your dream - you will know immediately!
This is not meant as a slam on any technology or skill. I love em both for
different reasons. Many people have built BOTH glass and metal planes. But
you are a first time builder - chose wisely based on only YOUR personnel
preferences and you can't help but succeed.
-Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Cowling exits and inlets |
I had a ground adjustable exit cowl door which I varied from 70 square inches
of outlet area to 40 square inches of outlet area. I saw a 1 mph difference
by making the exit area changes. At 40 square inches of outlet area, I saw a
2 mph increase when I replaced the door structure with smooth skins on the
inside and outside of the lower cowl.
The LOM engine is delivered with an air box having about a 52 square inch
inlet area. The pictures that have been in the magazines show the inlet
fully open, and the engine CHT in cruise was running at 250 degrees f. The
CHT green arc is between 284 and 365 degrees f.
The O-290 had 38 Square inches of inlet area. The Lycoming tended to run
cold also.
I installed an plug in the air inlet made from a piece of alum. sheet. It
has an outside contoured surface, and an inside contoured surface. The inlet
area has been reduced to 25 square inches, and the cylinder head temperature
is running around 315 degrees f in cruise. And I got a 6 mph increase in
max. cruise speed.
With the cowling outlet change, and the change to the exhaust pipes, I am now
getting 196 mph true at 7,500' altitude at full throttle (22.5" mp) and 2770
RPM. The supercharger adds 200 RPM, so I don't have a supercharger engaged
speed. The performance is getting close to what I hoped for with this
engine. 196 mph at 7,500' on 115 sea level horsepower isn't too shabby.
And I haven't run out of speed improvements yet. It just takes time and
money. And there is never enough of either of them.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A powered RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, California USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernst Totland" <ernto(at)weald.air.saab.se> |
| Subject: | Re: exotic tools |
On Aug 14, 8:41pm, Meulemans Dirk wrote:
> Subject: RV-List: exotic tools
> thanks to everyone who replied to my exotic tools question. They have become
> less exotic. I've ordered the Avery catalog, as most of you suggested.Dirk
> Meulemans
>
> E-mail from: Meulemans Dirk, 15-Aug-1996
>
>
>-- End of excerpt from Meulemans Dirk
Do you know that Avery has a European representative in England?
It is Gloster Air Parts in Cheltenham, phone & fax: +44 1242 260242
They hold a stock of the most popular items and can obtain non-stocked
items in a matter of days. It's not cheap, 85p per $1 + postage, but
that includes shipping to Europe, duty and VAT.
I have no personal experience with this company, except talking to the
friendly representative at the PFA Fly-in at Cranfield this summer.
Personally I did not have to invest much in tools, as I had access to
most of what I needed through my employer (Saab).
Ernst Totland
ernto(at)weald.air.saab.se
RV-6 #20898
SE-XOI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred New <fred(at)ics.ee> |
| Subject: | Re: Wow, That's Some Growth! |
How did I hear about the list? I think I found out about it on Van's web
page. And Van's web page took a little while to find, but I think I found
it by starting with Velocity's home page which I got from
rec.aviation.marketplace. It's good to have a job that has an Internet
connection.
I moved to Estonia from Vancouver, Washington, USA in January, 1994.
(This Vancouver isn't in Canada; it's actually quite close to North
Plains, OR.) My (then-future) wife didn't want to leave Estonia, so I
opted to move here. Although she doesn't share my enthusiasm for flying,
she's perfect for me and she likes to see me happily following my dreams.=
=20
Speaking of which, I'm still unpackaging the dreams, hot-air and planning
kit for my RV-6A. I don't know anything about Estonia's aviation
regulatory structure, but I'm hoping to be able to get the necessary
approvals for building and flying a kit through the Swedish chapter of the
EAA. It should be interesting.
Bye for now.
s-------------------------------------------------------------------------s
Fred New, Systems Administrator
IC Systems | Mustam=E4e tee 12 | EE0006 Tallinn | Eston=
ia
Internet--fred(at)ics.ee voice--(372) 656-5477 fax--(372) 656-5476
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: exotic tools |
pec.co.nz!frankv(at)matronics.com wrote:
> BTW, When I bought the starter kit, Avery's allowed me to add a few
> items which also attracted the 10% discount.
>
> Frank.
He also lets you design your own starter kit, so I went down the list of
tools recommended by Van's and the RV-list, figured out what I'd need
for the empennage, and ordered accordingly. Later I added more tools,
clecoes, etc.
BTW, I have had excellent luck getting what I order promptly from
Avery's. The initial order had several items on back-order; most
arrived less than a week after the first order. A couple of items took
longer, but they were for riveting, which I would not need right away.
They also support what they sell. I broke all the roll-pins in my
back-riveting set (is this normal? Anyone know why?), so I called
them. They allowed me to order just the pins, for pennies. Since I
didn't want to write a check for that amount, I ended up getting the
latest Orndorff video at the same time (that's my excuse, I'm sticking
to it).
PatK - RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler location |
I installed my oil cooler for O320 RV6 on the firewall. I utilized a
standard oil cooler with an install kit I purchased from Stoddard-Hamilton (I
don't repeat that too often). The system draws air from the right rear
baffle through a 3" duct into a fiberglass plenum and dumps straight down.
This system has worked too good for nearly 350 hours in all types of
situations. My engine generally runs too cool, so I shut off the duct when
the temp get close to freezing. When it gets much below freezing it is often
difficult to keep the oil temp in the green.
Rick McBride
RICKRV6(at)aol.com
N523JC #20404
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Drilling out rivets |
A I guess I need to put 5/32" rivets in, which is a nuisance
>since I don't have any 5/32" rivets or gear to set them, and it'll
>take some time & money getting that stuff here to NZ.
>
Frank; I'll not address the drill out procedures, as others have given some
sound advice and procedures. But as to setting the larger rivets and not
having the 'proper'tools is a different matter. I viewed it as if it were
bucking bars, I think almost everyone jimmy rigged a 'special' bucking bar
for one or two 'special' situations. The same can apply to setting rivets,
it CAN BE DONE WITH A HAMMER!!!! I know some will faint at this idea, but
for the strong of heart, try it a few times on scrap and see if you can do
it with out shelling out that cash for something expensive and for a one
time use. My ball peen hammer got used a few times to set some rivets in
some odd places with some odd looking extension bars as leverage etc.
You may not be next door to a local field or FBO, but give the closest one a
call, they usually have some odd things around that they may give you one or
two rivets. That's the way I got friendly with our local FBO. Asking for
odd things and insisting that I wanted to pay something for each, it seems
that he then took it that he would be 'cheap' to take pay for just two
little rivets, but he also understood that I was not using him as a free
source to help me build my plane.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken.Hitchmough(at)IRAP.NRC.CA (forwarded by J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Fwd: RPM RISES WITH BOOST PUMP |
Over the last few weeks I've had what seems to be two distinct problems
with my
fuel system.
My plumbing went like this:
selector, small electric pump in cockpit, gascolator on firewall, tee
to high
pressure electric and engine driven mechanical pumps, tee back down to
one line
to fuel flow sender, finally to my Bendix servo.
Both pumps were shrouded and had blast tubes. The gascolator is a low
pressure
type also with a blast tube.
The two problems were:
1. When I turned the boost pump on with the engine running, the engine
rpm
either increased or it went erratic, depending on wether the engine was
being
affected by problem #2. It actually quit on me just before touch down
once.
With boost pump on and engine not running, fuel pressure was a stable
30 psi.
With engine running and no boost pump, fuel pressure was bouncing all
over the
place. With both pumps on, it stabilized at about 30 psi.
2. With the engine very hot, the idle rpm would bounce between 0 and
about
1000. The boost pump would cause the situation to become worse.
Problem #1 seems to have been caused by the fact that the electric pump
could
have fuel pushed back through it. I was informed that my pump should be
suitable for a parallel system because it has an internal check valve.
This
turns out to be not the case. It apears there are two types of Weldon
pump head
and one of them (not the one I have) has a check valve that allows fuel
to flow
through nicely in one direction and completely blocks it in the other.
I have
now plumbed my pumps in parallel with a check valve across the pump and
the
problem has dissappeared.
Problem #2 was obviously a heat problem causing vapour lock.
Unfortunately the
weather here has cooled down quite a bit so I cannot duplicate the
problem.
What I have done though is to remove the shroud from my mechanical pump
and
just directed the blast tube to it. It is highly likely that the shroud
was
causing heat to actually build up around the pump at low circuit speeds
and
ground idle, due to insufficient airflow through the blast tube off the
back of
the baffles.
Anyway, my thanks to the listers who sent notes to try and help. I hope
someone
else can benefit from this. On a final note, I got the plane back into
the air
on Sunday and went for a fantastic one hour test flight, only to land
and find
one of my cowl pins had come loose and chewed up my Warnke prop! This
never
seems to end.
Ken
RV6A
j.ken_hitchmough(at)mail.magic.ca
From: Ken.Hitchmough(at)IRAP.NRC.CA
Subject: RPM RISES WITH BOOST PUMP
Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 02:55:57 -0400 (EDT)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HowardRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Harmon Rocket 2 accident @ Longmont |
Kudo's to Mark for passing on his experience. For those that havn't seen his
Rocket, it is one beautiful bird.
Back in the OLD days, we were transitioning from F-104's to another Fighter
and we had a pilot that blew two tires on landing. Nothing much was
thought about it and the bird was checked out and found nothing wrong with
the brakes. About a week later in a night landing, he gave a two gun salute
on landing-two blown tires, the magnisium drums caught on fire and it was a
real sight. No damage done and later in a simulator ride, it was discovered
that he had his feet too high on the pedals and was applying brakes on
touchdown. It can happen!
Howard Kidwell
howardrv(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Baffles & Cowl Flaps |
<< ***** SNIP ******
The design of the RV cowls makes it difficult to adjust the cowl inlet area
in flight. It would make more sense to try and control the mass flow
through the cowl at the outlet. A simple flap to close a portion of the
outlet area may help to reduce the flow through the cowl. Unfortunately
this would leave a blunt aft facing exit which would increase profile drag.
A more clever solution is required. I have a few ideas to try and would
like to hear if anyone on the list has experimented with cowl flaps.
David Fried
DF-6 C-____
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca >>
David:
I think that you have hit on an important issue that is often
overlooked. I'd love to hear more on the subject....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator trim |
<< was me that spoke of using much less than the full trim. I've thought of
lengthening the arm but, hey, I've gotten used to tippy tapping on the
switch. Besides, it might slow my RV down 0.003 mph if I lengthened that
arm.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com >>
I Too tap lightly on a center panel mounted trim tab switch. A circuit
breaker, switch and motor (Mac servo) is a simple trim arrangement that meets
the "Kiss" principle...........
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
| Subject: | Re: -4 Wings and Empennage for Sale |
Michael Pruitt wrote:
>
> Health reasons force sale. Pre-built fuel tanks, inverted both tanks,
> Phlogiston spar, left wing leading edge and tank installed, main skin
> drilled and ready for riveting, left aileron complete, R/L flaps ready
> for riveting, top flap skin not drilled. Right wing not started.
> Empennage needs fiberglass tips installed. Also some misc. parts, sw
> fuel gauges and sending units, trim control cable. Make offer!
> Menlo Park, CA
> e-mail "mprv4(at)earthlink.net"
> Thanks
Hi Mike... I sent you an e-mail a week ago but maybe you didn't get it.
I am interested in any gauges you have. Please let me know what and how
much.
Thanks
Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <Jim=Preston%303FS_DOT%Whiteman(at)szl.afres.af.mil> (Maj, 305FS/DOT, Whiteman |
AFB, 975-2968)
| Subject: | Re: Test cell break-in |
>From aol.com!EBundy2620(at)matronics.com, on 8/14/96 10:54 PM:
>If anyone's interested, I can post the break-in sheet that Lycoming
included with my engine. It lists times, MP, RPM, temperatures, and fuel
burn.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com<
I'm interested, Ed. Thanks for the info.
Jim Preston
jpreston(at)szl.afres.af.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <Jim=Preston%303FS_DOT%Whiteman(at)szl.afres.af.mil> (Maj, 305FS/DOT, Whiteman |
AFB, 975-2968)
| Subject: | Panel pix coming to close |
>From ix.netcom.com!bcos(at)matronics.com (William Costello ), on 8/14/96
10:14 PM:
Hi Folks,
So far 13 listers have shown interest in the panel pix:<
Bill,
At the risk of cutting into your profit margin, I'd like to reiterate
someone else's suggestion to send them to someone who can upload them to a
home page. We'll be able to get a general idea of how a panel looks, and
then maybe order just the originals of the ones we're interested in.
However, I'm an advocate of free enterprise, so whatever works!
Jim Preston
jpreston(at)szl.afres.af.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
| Subject: | Paser Publications |
Amen to brother Bill for bringing the subject up!
I purchased Kent's book when it first came out last year. Rob and I used it
as a guide to fix his CHT and Oil temp problem. The book is very
informative and I highly recommend it. It is full of usefull (documented
experiments written clearly) information and covers several of the subjects
getting press here on the list lately such as: cowl inlets/outlets, cowl
flaps, oil cooler location, plenum baffling and intersection fairings just
to name a few. I just couldn't put it down when I started reading it. Kent
runs an ad in the back of EAA's Sport Aviation mag. I just can't say enough
good things about this book.
Greg Bordelon
greg(at)brokersys.com
=====================
I don't know beans about this, but, in his book titled Speed With Economy,
Kent Paser (who spent years studying and improving the efficiency of a
Mustang
II) says:
Thought I'd pass this along for what it is worth. His book is about
170 pages documenting how he made his plane more efficient over a number of
years. If
you want to find the current cost, etc his address is
Paser Publications
5672 West Chestnut Ave
Littleton, CO 80123
303-979-3666
Hope this helps,
Bill Costello
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 | Reserved N97WC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WATSON1(at)applelink.apple.com (Watson, William H.) |
Regarding the idea to lower the range of the elevator trim to gain more control
"finesse," there might be a time (I'm not speaking from experience) when loss
of elevator control leaves you only the trim for that trip to the airport and
final flair.
Bill Watson
Wishing I was building an RV-6A
Watson1(at)applelink.apple.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
<< was me that spoke of using much less than the full trim. I've thought of
lengthening the arm but, hey, I've gotten used to tippy tapping on the
switch. Besides, it might slow my RV down 0.003 mph if I lengthened that
arm.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com >>
I Too tap lightly on a center panel mounted trim tab switch. A circuit
breaker, switch and motor (Mac servo) is a simple trim arrangement that meets
the "Kiss" principle...........
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ming Ho <mho(at)post.cis.smu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Paser Publications |
> Thought I'd pass this along for what it is worth. His book is about
> 170 pages documenting how he made his plane more efficient over a number of
> years. If
> you want to find the current cost, etc his address is
> Paser Publications
> 5672 West Chestnut Ave
> Littleton, CO 80123
> 303-979-3666
The book costs $24.95 + $3.50 for shipping & handling in US ($10.00 for
foreign addresses)
Although I fly a "compost" plane, I too find this book very informative.
In fact, I read it cover to cover within 24 hrs after receiving it !
Kind regards,
Ming
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken.Hitchmough(at)IRAP.NRC.CA (forwarded by J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | resend:RPM RISES WITH BOOST PUMP |
I'm sending this again because it seemed to arrive all mixed up.
Ken
Over the last few weeks I've had what seems to be two distinct problems
with my fuel system.
My plumbing went like this:
selector, small electric pump in cockpit, gascolator on firewall, tee
to high pressure electric and engine driven mechanical pumps, tee back
down to one line to fuel flow sender, finally to my Bendix servo.
Both pumps were shrouded and had blast tubes. The gascolator is a low
pressure type also with a blast tube.
The two problems were:
1. When I turned the boost pump on with the engine running, the engine
rpm either increased or it went erratic, depending on wether the
engine was being affected by problem #2. It actually quit on me just
before touch down once. With boost pump on and engine not running,
fuel pressure was a stable 30 psi. With engine running and no boost
pump, fuel pressure was bouncing all over the place. With both pumps
on, it stabilized at about 30 psi.
2. With the engine very hot, the idle rpm would bounce between 0 and
about 1000. The boost pump would cause the situation to become worse.
Problem #1 seems to have been caused by the fact that the electric pump
could have fuel pushed back through it. I was informed that my pump
should be suitable for a parallel system because it has an internal
check valve. This turns out to be not the case. It apears there are
two types of Weldon pump head and one of them (not the one I have) has
a check valve that allows fuel to flow through nicely in one direction
and completely blocks it in the other. I have now plumbed my pumps in
series with a check valve across the pump and the problem has
dissappeared.
Problem #2 was obviously a heat problem causing vapour lock.
Unfortunately the weather here has cooled down quite a bit so I cannot
duplicate the problem. What I have done though is to remove the shroud
from my mechanical pump and just directed the blast tube to it. It is
highly likely that the shroud was causing heat to actually build up
around the pump at low circuit speeds and ground idle, due to
insufficient airflow through the blast tube off the back of the
baffles.
Anyway, my thanks to the listers who sent notes to try and help. I hope
someone else can benefit from this. On a final note, I got the plane
back into the air on Sunday and went for a fantastic one hour test
flight, only to land and find one of my cowl pins had come loose and
chewed up my Warnke prop! This never seems to end.
Ken
RV6A
j.ken_hitchmough(at)mail.magic.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <Jim=Preston%303FS_DOT%Whiteman(at)szl.afres.af.mil> (Maj, 305FS/DOT, Whiteman |
AFB, 975-2968)
| Subject: | resend:RPM RISES WITH BOOST PUMP (Chatter) |
charset=US-ASCII
>On a final note, I got the plane back into the air on Sunday and went for
a fantastic one hour test flight, only to land and find one of my cowl
pins had come loose and chewed up my Warnke prop! This never seems to
end.<
Ken,
Your registration number isn't "C-IKME" by any chance, is it?
Jim Preston
jpreston(at)szl.afres.af.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Drilling out rivets |
>>since I don't have any 5/32" rivets or gear to set them, and it'll
>>take some time & money getting that stuff here to NZ.
OK, I may admit my stupidity here, but let me ask anyway....
Can't you take a LONG 1/8 inch rivet, squeeze it just a little in a hand
squeezer to make it fatter, and then use it in an oversized hole?? There's a
limit, of course, to how big the oversized hole can be, but it seems to me
this can help for the slightly oversized hole...
Jon Scholl
scholl.jon(at)bcg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Caldwell <74504.1365(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | -6 Fitting Wing Skins |
I'm at the point where I need to fit my wing skins onto the skeletons and then
align with ribs and drill skins and ribs. My instruction manual offers two
methods for doing this. The first method is to begin with the skins covering
the main ribs. The other method is to begin with the leading edge skins. It
looks like the latter approach would make things easier, especially strapping
down the skins. I would appreicate hearing about anyone elses experiences or
viewpoints.
Ron Caldwell
RV6A (N655RV Reserved)
74504.1365(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Lycoming factory run-in |
A few people have requested this info, so I thought I'd post it.
My 0-320-D1A came from Lycoming with the following info on its' break-in:
Time----Man p.-----RPM-----Oil p.---fuel flow(pph)---CHT-----
4min-----12.5--------1196------68-------------16.2---------270------
10min---16.9---------1802-----74--------------30.0--------320------
9min-----21.5---------2201-----79--------------41.1--------368------
4----------11.0---------0664------50--------------5.90--------304------
4----------16.0---------1726------70--------------26.8--------313------
4----------24.3---------2398------80--------------56.7--------399------
4----------26.5---------2660------82--------------70.9--------408------
14--------27.3---------2711------83--------------72.6--------399------
4----------11.2---------0686------50--------------6.40--------271------
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: RPM RISES WITH BOOST PUMP |
Ken,
Great to get the feedback on the fuel problems, I can see this being a real
help to others. I presume you have seen the RVator material about cowl pins
and props..... you are certainly not the first to suffer this problem. I'm
shelling out for a C/S prop so you can bet my cowl pins are going to have
belts and braces. Did your pin securing mechanism fail or did the pin break
at a bend and then wriggle out?
Leo Davies
leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
>Over the last few weeks I've had what seems to be two distinct problems
>with my
>fuel system.
>
>My plumbing went like this:
>
>selector, small electric pump in cockpit, gascolator on firewall, tee
>to high
>pressure electric and engine driven mechanical pumps, tee back down to
>one line
>to fuel flow sender, finally to my Bendix servo.
>
>Both pumps were shrouded and had blast tubes. The gascolator is a low
>pressure
>type also with a blast tube.
>
>The two problems were:
>
>1. When I turned the boost pump on with the engine running, the engine
>rpm
>either increased or it went erratic, depending on wether the engine was
>being
>affected by problem #2. It actually quit on me just before touch down
>once.
>With boost pump on and engine not running, fuel pressure was a stable
>30 psi.
>With engine running and no boost pump, fuel pressure was bouncing all
>over the
>place. With both pumps on, it stabilized at about 30 psi.
>
>2. With the engine very hot, the idle rpm would bounce between 0 and
>about
>1000. The boost pump would cause the situation to become worse.
>
>Problem #1 seems to have been caused by the fact that the electric pump
>could
>have fuel pushed back through it. I was informed that my pump should be
>suitable for a parallel system because it has an internal check valve.
>This
>turns out to be not the case. It apears there are two types of Weldon
>pump head
>and one of them (not the one I have) has a check valve that allows fuel
>to flow
>through nicely in one direction and completely blocks it in the other.
>I have
>now plumbed my pumps in parallel with a check valve across the pump and
>the
>problem has dissappeared.
>
>Problem #2 was obviously a heat problem causing vapour lock.
>Unfortunately the
>weather here has cooled down quite a bit so I cannot duplicate the
>problem.
>What I have done though is to remove the shroud from my mechanical pump
>and
>just directed the blast tube to it. It is highly likely that the shroud
>was
>causing heat to actually build up around the pump at low circuit speeds
>and
>ground idle, due to insufficient airflow through the blast tube off the
>back of
>the baffles.
>
>Anyway, my thanks to the listers who sent notes to try and help. I hope
>someone
>else can benefit from this. On a final note, I got the plane back into
>the air
>on Sunday and went for a fantastic one hour test flight, only to land
>and find
>one of my cowl pins had come loose and chewed up my Warnke prop! This
>never
>seems to end.
>
>Ken
>
>RV6A
>
>j.ken_hitchmough(at)mail.magic.ca
>
>
>From: Ken.Hitchmough(at)IRAP.NRC.CA
>Subject: RPM RISES WITH BOOST PUMP
>To: J.ken_hitchmough(at)mail.magic.ca
>Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 02:55:57 -0400 (EDT)
>Message-id: <9608142127.AA1959@GTWY-IRAP.IRAP.NRC.CA>
>Received: from NRC with "Lotus Notes Mail Gateway for SMTP" id
>MIME-version: 1.0
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler location & low cost option |
Hi all:
PLEASE don't think you need one of those expensive coolers on your bird! Rob
Lee will tell you, and so will I.
I use a small & inexpensive ($65) cooler (with male -8 AN fittings already
installed) from TMR, Inc in Orange, Calif. (714) 771-1348. Talk to Mike and
tell him I sent you ( he'll only charge you an extra 10%). The 19 row ($70
"Setrab" brand- malmo in Sweden) unit I use on my Rocket keeps the temps on
the 540 to 185F in cruise, and I think I used a 13 row on the -4, and it was
usually too much. Rob Lee has the exact part # for the 320/360 unit. How
about posting it, along with installation tips, Rob?
I mounted mine on the back baffle, on the left side. I used the
expanding-slowing air/increasing pressure idea, and the inlet to the cooler
is sort of a reverse funnel.
DO NOT use an Earl's brand cooler. Too wimpy. Everyone using one of these
locally has had to replace them due to leaks and downright failure.
Replacements are free, however. Anyone want mine?
Check six!
Mark Frederick
(512) 918-8582
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bennett" <bennett(at)healey.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator trim |
Hence the need for "coarse"and "fine" as per my previous post.
Peter Bennett
bennett(at)healey.com.au
> Regarding the idea to lower the range of the elevator trim to gain more control
> "finesse," there might be a time (I'm not speaking from experience) when loss
> of elevator control leaves you only the trim for that trip to the airport and
> final flair.
>
> Bill Watson
> Wishing I was building an RV-6A
> Watson1(at)applelink.apple.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> << was me that spoke of using much less than the full trim. I've thought of
> lengthening the arm but, hey, I've gotten used to tippy tapping on the
> switch. Besides, it might slow my RV down 0.003 mph if I lengthened that
> arm.
>
> John Ammeter
> ammeterj(at)seanet.com >>
>
>
> I Too tap lightly on a center panel mounted trim tab switch. A circuit
> breaker, switch and motor (Mac servo) is a simple trim arrangement that meets
> the "Kiss" principle...........
>
> Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
> wstucklen(at)aol.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator trim |
RV'ers:
Has anybody out there flying a tiltup canopy -6 or -6A used the canopy as
a control surface (elevator)? Set up with the trim in the UP position Slow
to approach speed, and pop open the canopy. Now let go of the stick (trim as
necessary to maintain level: ie, set power or trim controls). Want the nose
to go down, push up on the canopy. Want it to go back up again, hold it down.
Works real good with much faster response than the trim controls, but does
take some getting used too!
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV (Tiltup Canopy)
wstucklen(at)aol.com
<< Regarding the idea to lower the range of the elevator trim to gain more
control
> "finesse," there might be a time (I'm not speaking from experience) when
loss
> of elevator control leaves you only the trim for that trip to the airport
and
> final flair.
>
> Bill Watson
> Wishing I was building an RV-6A
> Watson1(at)applelink.apple.com >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
Leo Davies wrote...
>Great to get the feedback on the fuel problems, I can see this being a
real
>help to others. I presume you have seen the RVator material about cowl
pins
>and props..... you are certainly not the first to suffer this problem.
I'm
>shelling out for a C/S prop so you can bet my cowl pins are going to
have
>belts and braces. Did your pin securing mechanism fail or did the pin
break
>at a bend and then wriggle out?
Leo, It appears that one of the pins broke at a bend. It's really hard
to say though as the end of the pin is now missing. My pins were
secured by a slight bend backwards into the nacelle and then dropping
into a notch in the cowl. It seemed to work fine for the first 6 hours
with no coming loose. I'd had the cowl off SO many times with the fuel
problem that I could have stressed the bend.
Its ironic that I had gone out and bought two springs with which I was
going to attach to the inside of the baffle and physically hold the
pins back....just hadn't got to it because of the fuel thing. You can
bet that it now takes priority.
To be honest, I really have struggled with the best way to secure the
end of these two pins. They now go in and out quite easy, but I think
there should be a mistake proofed way that's outlined in the drawings.
It only takes one mistake to cost a thousand bucks or so.
Incidentaly, I haven't seen the RVator article. I forgot to re
subscribe this year and been too busy finishing my airplane.
For anyone else in the final stages, heed this...THEY WILL COME LOOSE
if not POSITIVELY locked in.
Ken RV6A
j.ken_hitchmough(at)mail.magic.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bill garrett <bgarrett(at)fast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: -6 Fitting Wing Skins |
>I'm at the point where I need to fit my wing skins onto the skeletons and then
>align with ribs and drill skins and ribs. The first method is to begin with
the
>skins covering the main ribs. The other method is to begin with the leading
>edge skins. It looks like the latter approach would make things easier,
>especially strapping down the skins.
Ron-
When I did my wing skins, I used Frank Justice's directions which follow
this order: top skins, leading edge skin, tank, and bottom skins. I found
it worked very well for me. Bought 4 tie down strap clamps ($4.99 each from
Harbor Freight) and easily threaded them through between the leading edge
skin and the spar by removing a few clecoes in each spot where I wanted a
strap. It was then easy to pull the leading edge skin down snugly to the
main top skin.
In my opinion there is too much "stuff" going on at the same time if you do
the leading edge skins first. You will be trying to match both front and
back edges to your lines on the spar and at the same time making sure all
the ribs are aligned inside to your rivet lines on the skin. Even using
metal rods to space between each rib, I still had to adjust the nose ribs
somewhat after the skin was in place to get them where I wanted them. If
the leading edge skin is installed the least little bit off line, the error
will be almost doubled by the time you get to the wing root and I think
would cause problems aligning the tank and inboard main skins.
This has been my experience. My kit did not have the prepunched skins so if
your kit does then you might be working under different constraints.
Best wishes,
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
Wow, this sounds familiar! I had a similar occurance, but caught it before it
actually hit the prop. Definately have a positive means to secure the pins
now.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
<<
Leo, It appears that one of the pins broke at a bend. It's really hard
to say though as the end of the pin is now missing. My pins were
secured by a slight bend backwards into the nacelle and then dropping
into a notch in the cowl. It seemed to work fine for the first 6 hours
with no coming loose. I'd had the cowl off SO many times with the fuel
problem that I could have stressed the bend. >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bobh(at)synopsys.com (Bob Haan) |
| Subject: | Re: -6 Fitting Wing Skins |
I recommend doing the leading edge and tanks first. Then, you can butt the
top and bottom main skins to them getting a nice fit.
I drilled and clecoed the main top and bottom skins first. I aligning them
to a line on the main spare flange per the manual. Then the LE and tank
skins where fitted to the main skins. It was necessary to file and sand
these skins at the the edge in order to pull them down on the ribs. With
prepunched skins, you can run in to an edge distance problem if you need to
remove very much from the LE and tanks skin edges.
>I'm at the point where I need to fit my wing skins onto the skeletons and then
>align with ribs and drill skins and ribs. My instruction manual offers two
>methods for doing this. The first method is to begin with the skins covering
>the main ribs. The other method is to begin with the leading edge skins. It
>looks like the latter approach would make things easier, especially strapping
>down the skins. I would appreicate hearing about anyone elses experiences or
>viewpoints.
>
>Ron Caldwell
>RV6A (N655RV Reserved)
>74504.1365(at)compuserve.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bob Haan Office 503-531-2366
Pacific Northwest Mobile 503-720-1132
Account Manager FAX 503-690-6906
Synopsys Modeling Group E-mail bobh(at)synopsys.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Arter <arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu> |
| Subject: | POSSIBLE DEFECTIVE NEW FUEL PUMPS |
RV listers,
The following is a recent exchange that took place on the Mooney list I
thought you should know about. By the way, this list is a good source fo
information about O-360 and IO-360 Lycoming engines and their operation. If
you want to subscribe, send a message to with
in the body of the message, but beware - expect another
25 messages a day.
Phil
arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Richard Simile/Antec <richard.simile(at)antec.com>
Date: 12 Aug 96 19:41:19
Subject: POSSIBLE DEFECTIVE NEW FUEL PUMPS
I do not want to falsely warn or alert anyone, it is the FAAs job issue
warnings and ADs not mine. This is not a warning or an alert take it however
you want to, call it a freindly FYI. On 6\15\96 @ 8:40 PM CT in my 1985 M20J I
had a night engine failure on an IFR flt plan in VMC at 1600ft agl on app.
into auburn AL. with my whole family on board , wife, daughter and my ( 1 yr.
old future AF academy cadet son ) with 18 gals of 100LL included . It was not
until late last week that I was able to test run the engine only to find that a
Eng. driven fuel pump with 98 hrs T.I.S. had failed and caused a total fuel
restriction to the output of the pump.
In preparation for ferry to mooney /kerrville for repair, I overnighted a
brand new pump and had it installed.
By a fluke I discovered (while researching a bendix mag AD with the FAA) that
there was a crash in Australia ,a new pump with 40hrs T.I.S. and last month a
crash in NJ. a new pump with 15hrs T.I.S.
I called everyone I could at the FAA and Lycoming to pull a fire alarm on this
one, I also call MAPA and Jerry Johnson from the MAPA safety foundation who
suggested getting on this net. This is my first day on this net. I called
mooney too.
Today I had the new pump removed from my aircraft , replacing it with a rebuilt
pump for my ferry flt on wed. of this week. (Imagine doing that for your
comfort
level).
As of now it looks like there may possibly be an emergency AD coming out soon
regarding this problem as per the FAA , as soon as my pump is dissected and the
problem is found to be the same as the others. This should take place in
Bristol TN. on Tuesday 8/13/96 at A.C. who O.E.Ms the pumps for Lycoming.
The problem seems to be( according to the FAA ) that a neoprene washer inside
the metal washer that holds the diaphragm some how comes loose and lodges
itself in the pumps output causing total fuel starvation. PART# LW 15473 HIGH
PRESSURE
Lycoming says they have made some overseeing (supervision) changes at A.C. two
weeks ago to see if a manufacturing procedure is not being followed.
In a nutshell I AM NOT THE FAA and I am not issuing warnings. But these are
the facts until THEY do :
1) BY THE GRACE OF GOD MY FAMILY AND I ARE ALIVE TO TALK ABOUT IT.
2) MY NEW ENG. DRIVEN FUEL PUMP FAILED (CATASTROPHICALLY) RECENTLY
3) TWO OTHER LOW TIME NEW PUMPS FAILED (CATASTROPHICALLY) RECENTLY
4) THE FAA AND LYCOMING ARE CURRENTLY WORKING VERY HARD AND FAST TO RESOLVE
THIS PROBLEM.
5) NO ONE WOULD EVER WANT TO SEE ANYONE HAVE TO GO THROUGH WHAT I DID THAT
NIGHT .
6) MY WIFE AND DAUGHTER DO NOT WANT TO FLY ANY MORE. I HAVE WORKED MY WHOLE
LIFE TO BUY AN AIRPLANE TO FLY THE FAMILY AROUND FOR FUN AND IN JAN OF 1996 I
SUNK A LOT OF MONEY INTO WHAT WAS A REAL NICE ONE.
OH WELL WERE ALIVE AND THAT'S WHAT MATTERS.
It is my understanding that this possible pending AD may affect upwards of
10,000 plus aircraft .
BY THE WAY THANKS VERY MUCH TO THE REAL GOOD GUYS AT MOONEY FOR GETTING ME
FERRY READY SO FAST. IT FEELS GREAT KNOWING YOU'LL BE DOING THE WORK.
please fly safe
RICHARD A. SIMILE sr
N5774J---1985 M20J
MAPA #12595
AUBURN AL.
---------------------------------------------------------
71232.757 @ CompuServe.COM (Russ White)
08/13/96 09:42 AM
Subject: Possibly defective new fuel pumps
Richard Simile's posting was very interesting and useful. Since he included
some personal notes, I have a couple of questions.
1. Was the electric fuel pump turned on?
2. Was there enough altitude to land safely without the electric fuel pump?
This brings up the other two fuel pump failures and subsequent crashes in
Australia and New Jersey. Was the electric fuel pump used?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Richard Simile/Antec <richard.simile(at)antec.com>
Date: 13 Aug 96 10:18:11
Subject: Re: Possibly defective new fuel pumps
RUSS ,THE ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP WAS ON. ALL ENGINE OUT CHECK LIST ITEMS WERE
COMPLETED FORWARD AND REVERSE. WHEN I MENTIONED A CATASTROPHIC FAILURE I MEANT
A TOTAL FUEL RESTRICTION. MY TAKE ON THIS IS THAT THE ADDITION OF THE ELEC.
PUMP PRESSURE ONLY ADDED TO THE PROBLEM BY PUSHING THE FOREIGN OBJECT TIGHTER
INTO THE PUMP OUTPUT, SORRY FOR THE CONFUSION.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mjacobs@1st-of-pryor.com (Mike Jacobs)
Subject: Lycoming fuel pump problems
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:23:08 -0500
Mooneyites:
After the letter from Richard Simile about the possibly bad Lycoming fuel
pumps, I became very concerned and called Lycoming. I spoke with Mike Day at
717-323-6181x7064 about this problem. He is familiar with the situation and
told
me what we should look for on the fuel pumps.
Apparently, a rubber gasket between a plate and another washer squeezes out
and lodges if it is improperly crimped during installation. He told me that
"SO
FAR" the only defective pumps were manufactured in October, 1995. Those pumps
are identified with the part # LW 15473 and then it numbers 9510 which
represents the year 1995 and the month of October.
This information is hopefully a relief to me as I bought a factory new engine
for my 201 which was installed on August 18, 1995 and is therefore(I hope) not
subject to the defective pump problem.
I hope none of us have this pump but it would appear that new pumps and new
and overhauled and remanufactured engines should be closely checked. Stay
tuned.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: POSSIBLE DEFECTIVE NEW FUEL PUMPS |
rv-list(at)matronics.com,Internet writes:
Richard Simile's posting was very interesting and useful. Since he
included
some personal notes, I have a couple of questions.
1. Was the electric fuel pump turned on?
2. Was there enough altitude to land safely without the electric fuel
pump?
This brings up the other two fuel pump failures and subsequent crashes
in
Australia and New Jersey. Was the electric fuel pump used?
I think the other question would be, if it was on, was the failure mode
such that fuel would not have gotten through the mech pump
anyway...hence the alternative parallel plumbing of fuel pumps.
I've just converted my system back to series because of other
issues...I wonder if I did the right thing.
Ken
RV6A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Magargle <tmrv6(at)pop.erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Test cell break-in |
>Thank you for your comments. Did you brace the shroud to the firewall? Also,
>how ling did you run? The Lycoming procedure calls for a little over an hour
>for run-in and then a 1 hour oil consumption run at rated output. I was
>thinking of 3 to 5 hours of running before taxi testing. Would you let it
>cool periodically or just run it? It was reassuring to hear how cool yours
>ran. tmetty(at)umich.edu
>
>P.S. I posted to the r.a.h. newsgroup and got no response. Well, at least I
>didn't get flamed.
>
No, I didn't brace the shroud to the firewall.
I used Lycomings procedure for run in ( Totaled about an hour), but
didn't do the oil consumption run. I went to Lycomings maint. course a few
years back and they only ran their engines for the 1 hour period. Besides,
running the engine at full RPM for an hour and not goin any where could
drive you crazy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kpsmith(at)sprynet.com |
| Subject: | Re: exotic tools |
Good grief, the guy will have his tools before this string
is beat to death.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Mayer <72652.670(at)CompuServe.COM> |
PMFJI, but I looked at an RV-4 at OSH that had the cowl pins installed from
the rear to avoid having them back out into the prop. The builder, whose name
I never got, had installed the fiberglas tapers for the cowl cheeks onto the
fuselage with machine screws. He demoed the setup for those of us present
by removing the extension by unscrewing about 4 screws, and taking the extension
off. the pins were clearly visible from the rear, and the extension had a plug
on it's front to help align it, and keep the pins from backing out.
Steve Mayer
RV-4
VS done, emp in process...
----- Forwarded Message -----
FROM: J.Ken Hitchmough, INTERNET:J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca
DATE: 8/16/96, 9:09 AM
Re: RV-List: Cowl pins
From: J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 08:25:33 -0400
Subject: RV-List: Cowl pins
Leo Davies wrote...
>Great to get the feedback on the fuel problems, I can see this being a
real
>help to others. I presume you have seen the RVator material about cowl
pins
>and props..... you are certainly not the first to suffer this problem.
I'm
>shelling out for a C/S prop so you can bet my cowl pins are going to
have
>belts and braces. Did your pin securing mechanism fail or did the pin
break
>at a bend and then wriggle out?
Leo, It appears that one of the pins broke at a bend. It's really hard
to say though as the end of the pin is now missing. My pins were
secured by a slight bend backwards into the nacelle and then dropping
into a notch in the cowl. It seemed to work fine for the first 6 hours
with no coming loose. I'd had the cowl off SO many times with the fuel
problem that I could have stressed the bend.
Its ironic that I had gone out and bought two springs with which I was
going to attach to the inside of the baffle and physically hold the
pins back....just hadn't got to it because of the fuel thing. You can
bet that it now takes priority.
To be honest, I really have struggled with the best way to secure the
end of these two pins. They now go in and out quite easy, but I think
there should be a mistake proofed way that's outlined in the drawings.
It only takes one mistake to cost a thousand bucks or so.
Incidentaly, I haven't seen the RVator article. I forgot to re
subscribe this year and been too busy finishing my airplane.
For anyone else in the final stages, heed this...THEY WILL COME LOOSE
if not POSITIVELY locked in.
Ken RV6A
j.ken_hitchmough(at)mail.magic.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
What's the minimum suggested headroom clearance between headset/canopy (for
turbulence, acro, etc.)?
To see how I might fit in the finished product...I sat in my fuselage, got
out all the slider hardware and duct-taped it in place, put a 1" thick board
across the seat ribs (simulating a thin 2" seatpad?), climbed in, and had
another person place the canopy on top.
My headset just touches the canopy. Lowering the seat pan on the quickbuild
kit would be a pain, as all the seat ribs are already rivited in place.
Van's describes a mod to raise the canopy 1" towards the front by moving the
roll bar forward.
I'm wondering if 1" head clearance is enough. Anybody out there raised
their slider somehow (spacers, new side skirts, etc.)?
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler and cowel flaps |
>You wrote:
>>
>>I'd be interested in hearing how everyone has installed their oil cooler.
>> Van's reccomends installing it on the firewall, but offers info on
>>installing it behind the rear cylinder baffle, and the left cowl intake.
>>
>>It seems that the firewall installation would be the easiest, and require the
>>least plumbing hassle.
>>Ed Bundy
There is an excellent article written by Dean Hall in the May '94 issue of
Sport Aviation on his RV-4. I've seen his airplane (and flew back seat) and
he has some great additions and ideas, some of which I adopted into mine.
His location for the oil cooler is a good idea: on the engine mount, i.e.,
something a bit more solid than the firewall or the baffling. Seems like
the thin metal of either the firewall or the baffling would flex quite a bit
under G loads, not to mention vibration of the engine. The engine mount has
less vibration than the baffling and more metal to hang a 2 pound weight on
than the firewall. I have, however, seen some nice firewall installations....
Dean also has a cowel flap hookup in his airplane. He reports a difference
of 5 knots between it being open and closed but also stresses he has not
compaired this to the standard cowel. Open, the thing looks like a speed
brake; that may account for the increased speed when closed.
Just some more ideas.
Send Mat your $5. I have learned more from this list in the past year than
from all the hanger help over the past 5 years.
Keep building.
Michael Kosta
mikel(at)dimensional.com
RV-4 232SQ...the little things one does before flying: 2 more months,
perhaps (yeah, right).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
>What's the minimum suggested headroom clearance between headset/canopy (for
>turbulence, acro, etc.)?
>
>To see how I might fit in the finished product...I sat in my fuselage, got
>out all the slider hardware and duct-taped it in place, put a 1" thick board
>across the seat ribs (simulating a thin 2" seatpad?), climbed in, and had
>another person place the canopy on top.
>
>My headset just touches the canopy. Lowering the seat pan on the quickbuild
>kit would be a pain, as all the seat ribs are already rivited in place.
>Van's describes a mod to raise the canopy 1" towards the front by moving the
>roll bar forward.
>
>I'm wondering if 1" head clearance is enough. Anybody out there raised
>their slider somehow (spacers, new side skirts, etc.)?
>
>Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
>Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
>
>
>
Did you put the back of the seatback all the way back? That helped me quite
a bit. As it is now I have about 3/4" between the headset band and the
canopy. No problem except when in turbulance. I do, however, make a point
of really snugging down my seatbelt. I'll tighten it again just before
takeoff since the cushion seems to give a little more and loosen the belt.
BTW, one advantage of having your head near the canopy is much more
visibility over the nose while taxiing.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: Electronic Fuel Injection |
>Gary Corde asked:
>I received the instruction manual for the SDS ED-1F electronic fuel injection
>system. It all seems quite simple to install. I have on question however,
>how would I run the fuel return line. Is it necessary for this line to go
>back to the tank or does it just need to loop back into the fuel line with a
>check valve. Maybe a header tank? Let me know what you think because I am
>really thinking about putting this system in my RV-6.
The best answer is going to come from the manufacturer of your fuel
injection system, but -- The fuel return line that was on the Bonanza I
owned went back to the tank. This of course would add a lot of complexity.
I'm thankful that the Benix RS5A fuel injection on my IO320 does not have
or need a return line.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
finishing kit on order
fuselage out of the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Electric Elevator Trim |
Read the archives, but have some unanswered questions about EE Trim install:
1. Do I need to cut and trim the servo mounting brackets? They are about 1
inch longer than the servo, and overhang the servo wings by 1/4 inch each
side. I sure can't see how to fit the servo in the (pre-punched) hole with
out making the brackets exactly the same size as the servo itself.
2. I've installed the nutplates on the doubler by machine countersinking the
rivet holes, etc.. Do I machine countersink the access plate to accept the
screws? It seems like awfully thin metal the machine c sink 1/8 holes.....
Thanks for participating in a great list. Send Matt your $5 for the upgrade.
Jon Scholl
bcg007(at)aol.com
Plano TX
RV6 empennage ALMOST complete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler and cowel flaps |
RV>There is an excellent article written by Dean Hall in the May '94 issue of
RV>Sport Aviation on his RV-4. I've seen his airplane (and flew back seat) and
RV>he has some great additions and ideas, some of which I adopted into mine.
RV>Keep building.
RV>Michael Kosta
RV>mikel(at)dimensional.com
RV>RV-4 232SQ...the little things one does before flying: 2 more months,
RV>perhaps (yeah, right).
Dean Hall has recently obtained an e-mail address. I'm sure he wouldn't
mind answering a few questions if people have them. His address is:
deandoc(at)verinet.com
Tell him Rod sent you.... that oughta pretty much get you nowhere!!
Rod Woodard
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
RV-8, #80033 (currently installing shower doors instead of building on
my -8)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
Jon Johanson will be in Loveland from August 17th until at least August
20th. He will be speaking at a special meeting of EAA chapter 515 in Ft.
Collins on August 20th. If anyone out there in list-land is interested
in attending, please contact me privately for the details.
Best regards,
Rod Woodard
Loveland, Colorado
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
RV-8, #80033
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Elevator Trim |
You wrote:
>
>Read the archives, but have some unanswered questions about EE Trim install:
>
>1. Do I need to cut and trim the servo mounting brackets? They are about 1
>inch longer than the servo, and overhang the servo wings by 1/4 inch each
>side. I sure can't see how to fit the servo in the (pre-punched) hole with
>out making the brackets exactly the same size as the servo itself.
>
Jon, I am not sure how big the pre-punched hole is, but if it is like the plans
were before the pre-punching, yes you sure do have to trim the brackets to
match the servo. I originally left mine about 1/32 wider than the servo wings
and could not get it thru the hole -- had to trim them to servo size. Also,
the brackets from front to back on mine 'lean' toward the front. That is, the
top is closer to the main spar than the bottom by about a half inch or so. The
plan sheet that I got with the electric trim spells out the shape and
dimensions exactly. This is required to allow you to mount the feet of the
brackets on the servo access plate, but get the servo away far enough from the
slot the control arm goes thru to function properly. I also had to make the
slot for the servo arm much larger than shown to make sure there would be
clearance throughout its travel. I looked at several planes at Oshkosh and
they seemed to have larger slots too.
>2. I've installed the nutplates on the doubler by machine countersinking the
>rivet holes, etc.. Do I machine countersink the access plate to accept the
>screws? It seems like awfully thin metal the machine c sink 1/8 holes.....
>
I dimpled the access plate. It is too thin to countersink in my opinion.
>Thanks for participating in a great list. Send Matt your $5 for the upgrade.
>
>Jon Scholl
>bcg007(at)aol.com
>Plano TX
>RV6 empennage ALMOST complete
>
>
If anyone has read my ramblings this far, I have a question relative to the
electric trim. How the hell do you put the screws into those nut plates
without stripping the Phillips head. Those darn nut plates are made oval and I
can't get the screw up into them without stripping it! Ideas?
Hope this helps and that someone has some advice for me.
Best regards,
Bill Costello
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 | Reserved N97WC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "tom metty" <Tom=Metty%Foreman%MaintSvc(at)bfmailer.bf.umich.edu> |
| Subject: | POSSIBLE DEFECTIVE NEW FUEL PUMPS |
I had an engine failure on my IO360 Mooney due to ice in the servo and ended
up in a frozen field. It's a frustrating feeling to have the only fuel source
stop working. On an injected engine there's no primer, accelerator pump, or
carb heat. When the fuel stops, you land.
On the homebuilt I installed 4 cylinder priming fed by an electric pump and
controlled by a needle valve. If the Ellison or engine driven pump quit I
should be able to limp it back to an airport. I think our homebuilts represent
the sum of our experiences. tmetty(at)umich.edu
our experiences.
needle valve and
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
>Did you put the back of the seatback all the way back? That helped me quite
>a bit. As it is now I have about 3/4" between the headset band and the
>canopy.
Yep, the seatback is resting against F-509. But if 3/4" is enough I may get
by with Van's mod alone...though that in itself looks fairly involved.
Thanks for the reply John.
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electric Elevator Trim |
>>2. I've installed the nutplates on the doubler by machine countersinking
>the
>>rivet holes, etc.. Do I machine countersink the access plate to accept the
>>screws? It seems like awfully thin metal the machine c sink 1/8 holes.....
>>
>I dimpled the access plate. It is too thin to countersink in my opinion.
Bill,
Doesn't the access plate sit too proud of the skin if you dimple the plate???
I want it to be as flush as possible. (BTW, I should have read the archive
before installing the doubler--it tells how to shim the doubler and make the
cover fit just right.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Of Cammed Out Driving Recesses and Virgin Fasteners |
Bill-
If you haven't got a screwdriver with replacable hardened tips, get one.
Furthermore, also get an electric screwdriver so that you can apply a
downward force against the screw head, a lot of torque all the while
maintaining the axis of rotation normal to the surface. The nutplates are
dryfilm lubricated and are generally designed for cadmium plated fasteners.
Cadmium adds its own natural lubricity.
If you are using 300 series (non-magnetic) stainless steel hardware into the
"smushed" type locking threadform nutplates, the S/S can gall even with the
dryfilm. IMHO you need to dab a bit of antiseize compound (also known in my
neighborhood as vienerschleider ;^)) on the entry screw threads the first
time the fastener enters the locking threadform.
Regards,
Gary VanRemortel
N1GV (RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Elevator Trim |
You wrote:
>
>Doesn't the access plate sit too proud of the skin if you dimple the plate???
> I want it to be as flush as possible. (BTW, I should have read the archive
>before installing the doubler--it tells how to shim the doubler and make the
>cover fit just right.)
>
I missed the advice on using a shim also. I don't think countersinking vs
dimpling is going to make an appreciable difference -- the doubler is thicker
than the skin. On most of the planes I looked at at Oshkosh, it stands up
slightly. On those who finish painted with the servo installed (which I think
was all of them but don't really recall) it was barely noticeable. Besides,
when I think of what this 'more seasoned' body had to do to get down on the
ground and look under the left elevator . . .
But I guess if you are looking for a show winner, you will drill out the
doubler and insert a shim. Or maybe get a steel plate that matches the skin
thickness and use that for the servo mounting plate. Yours truly just wants
to get this work finished and safely flying in this lifetime!
Best regards,
Bill
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 | Reserved N97WC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Elevator Trim |
On Sat, 17 Aug 1996, William Costello wrote:
> If anyone has read my ramblings this far, I have a question relative to the
> electric trim. How the hell do you put the screws into those nut plates
> without stripping the Phillips head. Those darn nut plates are made oval and
I
> can't get the screw up into them without stripping it! Ideas?
A drop of oil on the threads really helps. Just wait 'til you
get to the fuel tanks - There's about a hundred of those screws to
install - I must have stripped the heads on 20 or 30 of them until I
started oiling the threads. Incidentally, don't worry about the oil
reducing the locking capability of the platenut - all in-service bolts
are assumed to be oily - that's why those locking platenuts are as tight
as they are.
Curt Reimer
fitting RV6 floor stiffeners
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd <tmrv6(at)pop.erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Airplane data |
NAME: Todd Magargle
"N" NUMBER: N92TM
E-MAIL ADDRESS: tmrv6(at)pop.erols.com
MODEL: RV-6
DATE FINISHED: March 10,1996
TOTAL TIME: 68 hrs
ENGINE: O-320-E2A converted to 160 HP
PROP: Aymar Demuth wooden prop
CANOPY: Tilt
STARTER: Sky-Tec
ALTERNATOR: B&C 40 amp
VOLT. REG.: Vans
BATTERY: B&C 25 amp sealed immobilized electrolyte.
EXHAUST: Allan Tolle (cracked at 65 hours)
ELEVATOR TRIM: Manual (homemade rack & pinion)
FLAPS: Electric
BRAKES: Single (stock)
TIRE PRESSURE: 35
PANEL: IFR brand Insts.-->(Attitude,DG,VSI,compass)
Westach Insts.--> (CHT-EGT combo w/4 way switch,
Volts-Amp combo, Fuel 1 gauge
w/switch,
Capacitance senders)
Rochester Insts.--> (Oil Temp,Oil Pressure)
UMA Insts.--> (Man. press, Gyro suction)
Mitchell Tach.| TKM Comm.| Narco Transponder| ACK
encoder|
United Airspeed (VANS)| Garmin GPS 100 | Magellan
Skyblazer XL Matronics Fuelscan DX
I tried to give the brands of my instruments,
because there has
been a few inquiries for the type of insts that
people have been using.
LIGHTING: Whelen strobe/position #600 combo, Duckworks Taxi
PAINT: Alumiprep creme with Burgandy trim
INTERIOR: Cleveland Tools (D.J. 's)
INSURANCE: Avemco Full Hull (just for the first year, then
Liability)
OTHER (MISC): Landoll Harmonic Balancer
PROBLEMS: Primer line broke due to improper fastening, Exhaust
cracked
(badly) am thinking about replacing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electric Elevator Trim |
Bill Costello Wrote:
>How the hell do you put the screws into those nut plates
>without stripping the Phillips head. Those darn nut plates are made
>oval and I can't get the screw up into them without stripping it!
>Ideas?
Hi Bill,
Yes, - I think Van gets all his nut plates specially ordered to be
undersize or something....
After lots of griping, whining, cursing, and replacing of screws, I
said "Uncle" and chucked an 8-32 Tap into my cordless drill and run it
in and out of the plates.
I guess that I had to do this to over 50% of the nut plates before I
was done.
Regards,
Rob Lee
av8r(at)hic.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Other than "time is money", any perspectives on the BAC WIng Kit? WOuld
sure like to hear others opinions before ordering my wings soon.
I also did read the archives.....
Jon Scholl
bcg007(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Elevator Trim |
hic.net!av8r(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Bill Costello Wrote:
> >How the hell do you put the screws into those nut plates
> >without stripping the Phillips head. Those darn nut plates are made
> >oval and I can't get the screw up into them without stripping it!
> >Ideas?
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> Yes, - I think Van gets all his nut plates specially ordered to be
> undersize or something....
>
> After lots of griping, whining, cursing, and replacing of screws, I
> said "Uncle" and chucked an 8-32 Tap into my cordless drill and run it
> in and out of the plates.
> I guess that I had to do this to over 50% of the nut plates before I
> was done.
>
> Regards,
> Rob Lee
> av8r(at)hic.net
Just have to step in here and say be carefull, those locking nut
plates are put in for a reason and that is to keep removeable part
held together tightly, if you use a tap on them you defeat the purpose
of
putting them in the first place. Self locking nut plate are
every bit as important as as fiberlock nuts or any other locking device
used to hold a airplane together. Tapping a few I'am sure would not hurt
but 50% wow. Not on my airplane. As someone said in another post get a
good
hardened driver that fits the screw head and then use a good quality
screw
gun to drive the scews in, I use a 12 volt DeWalt works great on the
screw gun setting.
My $.02
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) (Hillsboro,
OR)
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Elevator Trim |
hic.net!av8r(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Bill Costello Wrote:
> >How the hell do you put the screws into those nut plates
> >without stripping the Phillips head. Those darn nut plates are made
> >oval and I can't get the screw up into them without stripping it!
> >Ideas?
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> Yes, - I think Van gets all his nut plates specially ordered to be
> undersize or something....
>
> After lots of griping, whining, cursing, and replacing of screws, I
> said "Uncle" and chucked an 8-32 Tap into my cordless drill and run it
> in and out of the plates.
> I guess that I had to do this to over 50% of the nut plates before I
> was done.
>
> Regards,
> Rob Lee
> av8r(at)hic.net
Just have to step in here and say be carefull, those locking nut
plates are put in for a reason and that is to keep removeable part
held together tightly, if you use a tap on them you defeat the purpose
of
putting them in the first place. Self locking nut plate are
every bit as important as as fiberlock nuts or any other locking device
used to hold a airplane together. Tapping a few I'am sure would not hurt
but 50% wow. Not on my airplane. As someone said in another post get a
good
hardened driver that fits the screw head and then use a good quality
screw
gun to drive the scews in, I use a 12 volt DeWalt works great on the
screw gun setting.
My $.02
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) (Hillsboro,
OR)
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Elevator Trim |
You wrote:
>
>
>A drop of oil on the threads really helps. Just wait 'til you
>get to the fuel tanks - There's about a hundred of those screws to
>install
Boy, THAT makes me feel good... :)
> - I must have stripped the heads on 20 or 30 of them until I
>started oiling the threads. Incidentally, don't worry about the oil
>reducing the locking capability of the platenut - all in-service bolts
>are assumed to be oily - that's why those locking platenuts are as
>tight as they are.
>
>Curt Reimer
>fitting RV6 floor stiffeners
>
>
Seriously, thanks to you and Rob and all who responded with ideas. I
think I will try the oil and if that doesn't work I'll get a reamer and
stick it to those suckers.
Best regards,
Bill
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 | Reserved N97WC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "B F Gibbons" <gibbons(at)nwark.com> |
| Subject: | RV Stuff for sale |
For Sale:
If you are interested in any of these items, please E-mail me at
gibbons(at)nwark.com. Please don't feel the need to 'deal' on these
items. They are priced right and are all in excellent condition.
First come, first served.
_________________________
Whelen Strobe Kit - A500A tail strobe, A650-PG-14 nav light/strobe,
A650-PR-14 nav light/strobe, 3 A490A TS CF Power Packs - Unopened.
100 ' 14 gage, 100' 16 gage, 100' 18 gage wire.
My cost $990.20 from Aircraft Spruce - sell for $800 - you pay
shipping.
___________________________
Heated Pitot Tube - 12 Volt AN5812 - my cost $120 - sell for $75 -
you pay shipping. (Still in box).
___________________________
Vision Microsystems Fuel Level Probes and custom RV mounting flanges.
My cost $365 - you pay $200 and shipping. (Never Installed)
___________________________
Avery Hand riveting and dempling tool (part # 1001). I
paid $99 - sell for $65 you pay shipping.
___________________________
Parker Rolo-Flair Tool (fuel line flair tool) 212FB. Never used. I
paid $68. Sell for $50 plus shipping.
___________________________
3" Pneumatic Rivet Squeezer (I paid $435) and additional 4" throat
($120). Squeezer has never been hooked to air - brand new. 4"
throat is still in wrapper from Avery. Sell for $475 plus shipping.
____________________________
RMD wing tip landing lights. Never unwrapped. I paid $306. Sell
for $225 plus shipping.
_____________________________
Tatco hand squeezer from Avery. My cost $201. Sell for $150 plus
shipping.
_____________________________
Completed Empenage Kit. Electric trim option. Good quality. Sell
for $500. You ship.
_____________________________
In process Wing Kit. Right wing ready to rivet. Control surfaces
incomplete. BAC option. Phlo spar option. My cost $5217. Don't
make an offer unless you want to buy it! You figure out how to
transport it.
BFG
gibbons(at)nwark.com
BFG
gibbons(at)nwark.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MiDiBu <midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com> |
>What's the minimum suggested headroom clearance between headset/canopy (for
>turbulence, acro, etc.)?
>
>I'm wondering if 1" head clearance is enough. Anybody out there raised
>their slider somehow (spacers, new side skirts, etc.)?
>
>Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
>Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
>
>
I'm not sure about this either. How tall are you?
I'm rapidly approaching the end of the requirements stage. I'm still trying
to decide between a
-6 or -8. I'm also in the tool buying stage, but that's a different matter.
Mike Weller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rudy.Albachten(at)amd.com (Rudy Albachten) |
| Subject: | Cable diameter for electric elevator trim |
I'm getting ready to close up my left elevator
and wanted to install a grommet for the 5 conductor
cable. I'm going to order the 20' cable from
Van's the next time I order stuff, but I wondered
if anyone knew the OD of this cable so I don't
have to bother them on the phone.
Rudy Albachten
rudy(at)io.com
RV-6A
finishing left elevator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE:Cowl pins |
Cowl pins that are installed and removed from the rear are not new in either
4s or 6s. It's not necessary, in the case of the 4, to remove the cowl cheek
extension. It's easy to provide access through the cocpit on both style RVs.
A small alignment tube is installed which guides the cowl pin through the
firewall and directly into the piano hinge. This installation works very
well and is asthetically very clean.
Rick McBride
RV6 N523JC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "B F Gibbons" <gibbons(at)nwark.com> |
| Subject: | RV Stuff for sale |
Sorry I forgot to include:
I'm located in Northwest Arkansas (USA).
The wings and emp are for an RV-6.
gibbons(at)nwark.com
BFG
gibbons(at)nwark.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator trim |
I have the MAC two-axis servos in my 6A (not yet flying). Back then I didn't
know about the neat joystick grip MAC was soon to introduce, so I fashioned
my own relay deck for the coolie hat arrangement. (Now I have the MAC grip
with the independent switches and don't really need the relay except for
copilot trim.) I anticipated the runaway trim failure mode and tried to head
it off by designing a fifth relay in series with the 4 relays controlling
up/down and left/right. Any trim input keys this extra relay at the same
time as it keys one of the four trim relays. For runaway trim to occur, two
relays would both have to fail in the closed position simultaneously... an
unlikely event, I hope :-) Homebrewing the relay deck was not particularly
advantageous in terms of weight, cost, or reliability, but gave me something
to do while waiting for the sub-kits to ship from Van's. If I had it to do
over again I could find lots of better ways to spend my time.
Bill Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cable diameter for electric elevator trim |
MAC trim servo cable mikes 0.137" O.D.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A / receiving finish kit this week??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Quickbuild Arm Rest Dimensions |
I found that I needed to change the dimensions on the plans (page Q9) for
the arm rest (F-620) form block. I initially cut out the form block as
per the plans, and made the arm rest. I found that the aft end of the
form block was 1/8" wider than I wanted it to be (it stuck out beyond the
edge of the bulkhead to which it is attached) , and the front end of F-620
was about 3/8" narrower than the factory-made arm rest. This makes it so
narrow its tough to install the two rivets at the front end of the arm rest.
The profile of the arm rest fit the fuselage fine, so I moved the straight
edge of the forming block. By making the front 3/8" wider and the
rear 1/8" narrower than shown in the plans I ended up with an arm rest
that matches the factory made one, and fits much better.
Tim Lewis
lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil or capntim(at)aol.com
COML ASEL IA
RV-6AQ #60023
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Piers Walker <pierso(at)tartarus.uwa.edu.au> |
What is a red rivet?
Piers Walker
pierso(at)tartarus.uwa.edu.au
Assembling the HS skeleton
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electric Elevator Trim |
<< Subj: Re: RV-List: Electric Elevator Trim
Date: 96-08-18 12:31:17 EDT
From: MBnet.MB.CA!Curt_Reimer(at)matronics.com (Curt Reimer)
Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
Reply-to: rv-list(at)matronics.com
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
On Sat, 17 Aug 1996, William Costello wrote:
> If anyone has read my ramblings this far, I have a question relative to
the
> electric trim. How the hell do you put the screws into those nut plates
> without stripping the Phillips head. Those darn nut plates are made oval
and I
> can't get the screw up into them without stripping it! Ideas?
A drop of oil on the threads really helps. Just wait 'til you
get to the fuel tanks - There's about a hundred of those screws to
install - I must have stripped the heads on 20 or 30 of them until I
started oiling the threads. Incidentally, don't worry about the oil
reducing the locking capability of the platenut - all in-service bolts
are assumed to be oily - that's why those locking platenuts are as tight
as they are.
Curt Reimer
fitting RV6 floor stiffeners
----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
From owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com Sun Aug 18 12:30:35 1996
Return-Path: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
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Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 10:20:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: Curt Reimer <MBnet.MB.CA!Curt_Reimer(at)matronics.com>
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Electric Elevator Trim
In-Reply-To: <199608180122.SAA28643@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com>
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>>
Anti-seize works better than oil on the threads. I use a small "acid" brush
for applying the stuff. It stays a little neater that way.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electric Elevator Trim |
<< Subj: Re: RV-List: Electric Elevator Trim
Date: 96-08-18 12:51:57 EDT
From: hic.net!av8r(at)matronics.com
Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
Reply-to: rv-list(at)matronics.com
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Bill Costello Wrote:
>How the hell do you put the screws into those nut plates
>without stripping the Phillips head. Those darn nut plates are made
>oval and I can't get the screw up into them without stripping it!
>Ideas?
> Hi Bill,
Yes, - I think Van gets all his nut plates specially ordered to be
undersize or something....
After lots of griping, whining, cursing, and replacing of screws, I
said "Uncle" and chucked an 8-32 Tap into my cordless drill and run it
in and out of the plates.
I guess that I had to do this to over 50% of the nut plates before I
was done.
Regards,
Rob Lee
av8r(at)hic.net >
Don't use a tap on the nutplates. You will defeat the self-locking feature.
As I said in a previous post, use some anti-seize on the screw.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
Regarding mounting and installing nut plates, to get the screw to
go in properly it is very important to have the hole in the skin
centered on the hole in the nut plate. some of you old timers may
already know this little trick to holding the nut plate in place
while drilling the hole for the rivets. Drill the hole in the skin
where the screw goes through with a #30 drill then put a 1/8 cleco
through this hole and into the nut plate where the screw goes
to hold it in place while drilling the two #40 holes for the rivets
remove cleco and drill screw hole to proper size, this pretty well
keeps nut plate centered on hole.
Hope this makes sense worked well for me.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) (Hillsboro,
OR)
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cable diameter for electric elevator trim |
Rudy-
I believe the MAC 5-conductor 26 AWG cable is approx 0.150" OD and is
extremely flexible. It is not shielded and both primary insulation and
jacketing are PVC. It is color coded for the MAC servos.
For optimum life in an area of flexure, be sure to route the cable parallel
to the hinge line between the fixed and movable clamp points for a few inches
at a small offset distance so that flex is primarily torsional (I hope this
articulation makes sense).
Regards,
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
<< Subj: RV-List: nut plates
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RE:Cowl pins |
<< PMFJI, but I looked at an RV-4 at OSH that had the cowl pins installed
from
the rear to avoid having them back out into the prop. The builder, whose
name
I never got, had installed the fiberglas tapers for the cowl cheeks onto the
fuselage with machine screws. He demoed the setup for those of us present
by removing the extension by unscrewing about 4 screws, and taking the
extension
off. the pins were clearly visible from the rear, and the extension had a
plug
on it's front to help align it, and keep the pins from backing out.
>>
There was an article in an Rvator that describes using a small piece of .032
or so aluminum bent to conform to the cowl halves that screws in with
platenuts over the forward part of the pins to positively capture them. Once
painted it is not noticeable and adds a little bit of "beef" to the front of
the cowl. It looks real effective.
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Elevator Trim |
> Bill Costello Wrote:
> >How the hell do you put the screws into those nut plates
> >without stripping the Phillips head. Those darn nut plates are made
> >oval and I can't get the screw up into them without stripping it!
> >Ideas?
> After lots of griping, whining, cursing, and replacing of screws, I
> said "Uncle" and chucked an 8-32 Tap into my cordless drill and run it
> in and out of the plates.
> I guess that I had to do this to over 50% of the nut plates before I
> was done.
> Regards,
> Rob Lee
> av8r(at)hic.net >
>Don't use a tap on the nutplates. You will defeat the self-locking feature.
> As I said in a previous post, use some anti-seize on the screw.
For builder's who decide to go ahead and use oil, anyway: If you're going
to paint your airplane, you might be sorry. Oil can wick is't way out of
nooks and crannies to contaminate the surface after you've cleaned your A/C
and are ready to paint. (No, I don't know from experience, just makes
sense.) Snap-On makes some really good bits with ribs that grip the screw.
I helped prep a 402 for paint that had screws that were damaged and then
painted over. You have to press hard, but these little bits would grab when
all else fails. I believe that Avery might have this type of bit in his
catalog, as well. I use them in my Makita with a magnetic holder. On
several occasions, while working under the RV, the bit stayed stuck in the
stainless screw when I removed the Makita. They really grip. Bob Skinner
RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE:Cowl pins |
>There was an article in an Rvator that describes using a small piece of .032
>or so aluminum bent to conform to the cowl halves that screws in with
>platenuts over the forward part of the pins to positively capture them. Once
>painted it is not noticeable and adds a little bit of "beef" to the front of
>the cowl. It looks real effective.
>
>Ed Bundy
Or, you could try what I did on my six. I put gentle bends, or hooks on the
end of the pin, attached some relatively "soft" springs about 1 1/2 long
with "eyes" on both ends to the baffle and hooked the eye over the hook.
There is not really very much pressure on the pin, it doesn't take much to
hold the pin in place and the installation is neat and clean. The bends
aren't severe and, since they are not attached solidly to the cowl, I don't
see cracking due to vibration as a problem. 300 hours so far and no
problems. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
aol.com!RacePro(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> I find it easier to use a nutplate drill jig.
>
>
Whatever works for you, myself I hated the nutplate drill jig
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) (Hillsboro,
OR)
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | elon ormsby <ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov> |
| Subject: | Private Airports |
Does anybody know how to find a phone number or mailing address of a private
airport identified on a sectional? I was hoping to avoid writing a letter
to Oklomah City. An Internet address or other electronic means to search the
airport Dbase would be great. Any ideas?
Thanx, in advance,
Elon Ormsby
ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
<< chucked an 8-32 Tap into my cordless drill and run it
in and out of the plates. >>
They make 'em so the fastener will not back out! I hate to see proposals
like this without the proper reservation, and that is: You may open the
threads slightly with this method, but not to the point that you end up with
a plain non-locking nut. I think we should all be careful not to post
ill-founded construction and maintenance practices lest the newbies build a
less than airworthy craft we might be riding in some day.
Jim Stugart
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bennett" <bennett(at)healey.com.au> |
Exactly what I do too, except that I then open the #30 hole to #16
rather than #19. I leave the matching hole on the other part #19.
This accommodates any slight misalignment.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 working on seats.
> Regarding mounting and installing nut plates, to get the screw to
> go in properly it is very important to have the hole in the skin
> centered on the hole in the nut plate. some of you old timers may
> already know this little trick to holding the nut plate in place
> while drilling the hole for the rivets. Drill the hole in the skin
> where the screw goes through with a #30 drill then put a 1/8 cleco
> through this hole and into the nut plate where the screw goes
> to hold it in place while drilling the two #40 holes for the rivets
> remove cleco and drill screw hole to proper size, this pretty well
> keeps nut plate centered on hole.
> Hope this makes sense worked well for me.
> --
> Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) (Hillsboro,
> OR)
> jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | RE:Cowl pins, prop repair |
>Or, you could try what I did on my six. I put gentle bends, or hooks
on the
>end of the pin, attached some relatively "soft" springs about 1 1/2
long
>with "eyes" on both ends to the baffle and hooked the eye over the
hook.
>There is not really very much pressure on the pin, it doesn't take
much to
>hold the pin in place and the installation is neat and clean. The
bends
>aren't severe and, since they are not attached solidly to the cowl, I
don't
>see cracking due to vibration as a problem. 300 hours so far and no
>problems. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
That's exactly what I had in mind and what I finally did after the
"crash".
I had just been pre-occupied with the fuel issue and had established an
interim cowl pin fix.
No more interims for me!
BTW, took the opportunity to replace the end seal on the crank while
the prop was off, it was weeping VERY slightly. This was a relatively
easy job.
On a slightly different note, I'm a bit ticked off with my prop
situation. I returned a damaged prop to Bernie Warnke. It had zero time
and had been damaged by me trying to get it off the extension (I've
heard since that his holes seem to be out of alignment).
Anyway, I sent it back to Bernie and asked him to look at repairing it.
He hesitated and hesitated and finally I gave in and ordered another
(my current one). This was an expensive repair all in, about $1000US if
I include all the return shipping. When I damaged my current prop I
took both of them to a prop shop in Toronto called Hope Aero. They USED
to do wood props but not anymore. Harry Hope, the owner fixed BOTH OF
THEM for $50 Canadian.
The motto is, the original manufacturer may not be the best place to
get a repair done. Bernie Warnke does EXCELLENT props, but I could have
been $1000 better off if I'd taken my prop elsewhere for repair in the
first place.
Ken
6A Flying again
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
I use to strip alot of screws too till I tried rubbing the threads across
a piece of pariffin, it works great and is not as messy as oil. The same
stuff my mother use to use to seal the lids of canning jars. You can buy
a life time supply at any grocery store for $1.50.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Private Airports |
>Does anybody know how to find a phone number or mailing address of a private
>airport
Elon; Isn't it listed in the back of the AOPA annual book that has airport
info? My 1966 book has private airfields with the identifier and telephone
# listed. If you don't find it, let me know and I will retrieve and send to
you.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
>and drill screw hole to proper size, this pretty well
>keeps nut plate centered on hole.
>Hope this makes sense worked well for me.
>--
>Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) (Hillsboro,
>OR)
>jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
>
Jerry; I might add that after your process, which I had the best luck with,
I then found that to drill the bolt hole oversize sure made later alignment
vastly easier. Seemed that setting the rivets moved the nut plate just
enough to make it difficult to get the screw in and be aligned.
And if not done before, it was difficult to ream out the hole after the nut
plate was riveted on.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electric Elevator Trim |
> How the hell do you put the screws into those nut plates
>> without stripping the Phillips head. Those darn nut plates are made oval
and I
>> can't get the screw up into them without stripping it! Ideas?
>
I think all of us have had this problem. I sure did. Plus locking in to
the wing inspection plates. After trying all of the oil, grease, WD-40 etc
etc etc, some I flat had to tap out. Don't care what they say about
defeating the lock feature, they are staying in. I did at one time try to
use a smaller tap, with the same # of threads per inch, but it didn't work.
I would say that I messed up at least half of the screws before I did this.
And at times, one screw wouldn't go, but try another screw and away it goes.
John d
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Private Airports |
elon ormsby wrote:
>
> Does anybody know how to find a phone number or mailing address of a private
> airport identified on a sectional? I was hoping to avoid writing a letter
> to Oklomah City. An Internet address or other electronic means to search the
> airport Dbase would be great. Any ideas?
>
> Thanx, in advance,
>
> Elon Ormsby
> ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.govIf you're an AOPA member, look it up in the airport
guide. If you're
not, somebody on the list gladly will. On the other hand, if you're not
an AOPA member, you should be! Also, punch it in on DUAT...it'll give
you the name for the identifier.
Hope that helps.
--Don McNamara
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)Op.Net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lock-nutplates |
At OSH there was a demo of a product that you put on the head of a screw,
especially a phillips screw, that makes a screwdriver grip better. Damn,
Damn, Damn, I don't remember the name of the product. But I tried the stuff
at the booth. Its incredible . Its basically a fine, gritty paste that
creates so much friction between the screwdriver and the phillips notches,
that very little down pressure is needed and the screwdriver cant slip up
and out of the head. Can someone get the name and send it to the list?
Louis Willig
larywil(at)op.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Arter <arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Private Airports |
Elon, hi
Try: http://www.cc.gatech.edu/dbl/fly/
Phil
arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu
>Does anybody know how to find a phone number or mailing address of a private
>airport identified on a sectional? I was hoping to avoid writing a letter
>to Oklomah City. An Internet address or other electronic means to search the
>airport Dbase would be great. Any ideas?
>
>Thanx, in advance,
>
>Elon Ormsby
>ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Re: BAC WIng Kit |
> Other than "time is money", any perspectives on the BAC WIng Kit? WOuld
>sure like to hear others opinions before ordering my wings soon.
>
>I also did read the archives.....
>
>Jon Scholl
>bcg007(at)aol.com
>
>
Jon,
I bought this and thought it was fantastic. The quality of the work is top
knotch and they provide many pages of schematics which help in the assembly.
I don't know haow many hours it saved ( I have only built this one). All of
the parts which you would otherwise have to manufacture are already made.
It is a time vs. money issue. The product is great and I am glad I did it.
Ross Mickey
rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lock-nutplates |
I have heard of using a valve lapping compound in that application. Was that
it?
Mal rvbildr(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
| Subject: | Picked up my quickbuild this weekend |
Delete this message now if quickbuilds make you jealous or bitter in any
way... ;)
I flew (commercial) to Portland Thursday night and picked up a 25'
Penske truck Friday morning. Picked Ed Cole up at the airport so he
could join the driving fun, and we both took about 1.5 hours dual from
Mike Seager in the factory 6A. What a riot - I strongly suggest doing
this every six months or so if you can, it really gets you building when
you get home! After the fun flying stuff we loaded up the plane parts
which took about 2 1/2 hours. Van even showed up and took a picture of
the loaded fuselage and in his characteristic style failed to
acknowledge our presence the whole time.
We then hopped in the truck and started the not-so-fun drive back to San
Jose, CA. We had hoped to get to Ashland/Medford area
(California/Oregon border) by night and spend the night there, but we
decided to press on through the night and arrived home around 5:30 am
Saturday. Ug. Saved about $600 but we both had "bump fatigue".
The workmanship on the plane looks *excellent* so far. I suspect it
will take about 3 - 4 days to inventory. The ailerons and flaps are
beautiful and more importantly, done! I learned that one half of a
two-car garage is fine for building the empennage, but the quickbuild
requires the full garage, minimum. I might have to sublease a hangar
earlier than I expected. I'll have more to report as I get into it
more.
We also picked up the tailkit for Eric Barnes' RV-8, so expect more
noise out of him soon!
Mitch Faatz N727MF (reserved)
RV-6AQME (quickbuild my empennage!)
Q / cut here
-------------O-\-------------------------------------------------------
Mitchell Faatz mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com
Software Engineering Manager
Sagent Technology, Inc. (415) 614-6826
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
I never got a drill jig, don't know if it would be better or not. But
what I did do was to buy a bunch of short (5/16" long) #8 flat head
screws, from a h/w store. They are short enough that they can be used
to hold the nut plate in place exactly centered in the hole, after the
hole has been drilled to final size, and used as a "jig" to drill the
rivet holes. The thing I like about this method is that you don't ever
end up with a hole that "moves" as they sometimes do when drilling a
pilot hole to final size.
Just another suggested method, works for me anyhow....
Randall Henderson, RV-6
Editor, Home Wing Newsletter (Lame Duck)
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Harmon Rocket 2 accident @ Longmont |
Don Wentz took some rubber hose and slit it lengthwise, slipped it over
the bottom tubes on the rudder pedals, and used wire ties to secure it.
He told me it was to keep his feet a little further back from the brake
pedals so as to keep from pushing on the brakes inadvertently, but I
think it would also be a good non-skid measure.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
Editor, Home Wing Newsletter (Lame Duck)
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: exotic tools |
I think it would be a good idea for you to mail order a set of
fractional drill bits (1/16" up to 1/4") from someone in the US. You'll
need 3/16" as well as 1/4", and it probably wouldn't hurt to also have
the in-between ones on hand. Since you're paying international freight
the cost difference is probably relatively small.
Also you will be needing a 'D' size bit to drill your landing gear
bolts. Might as well get one of those at the same time.
I'd get a whole wad of #40, #41 and #30 bits all at once if I were you.
You're gonna need em. I don't know exactly how many I've used in my
project, but I'd recommend getting at least 20 or 30 of each. There are
LOTS of holes to drill, and it's just not worth it drilling holes with
a dull bit.
You should also get some Unibits (Avery has em).
Lastly, get a 12" long #30 and #40 bit. These come in handy when
drilling in hard to reach areas.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
Editor, Home Wing Newsletter (Lame Duck)
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
PS. And if that isn't enough for you.... get a snake drill attachment.
Then you get to buy many of the above all over again but with threaded
shanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Picked up my quickbuild this weekend |
>I flew (commercial) to Portland Thursday night and picked up a 25'
Penske truck Friday morning...We then hopped in the truck and started the
not-so-fun drive back to San Jose, CA.
Congrats Mitch! Did you pick up the truck from Barbara? I told her to
start expecting rentals from nutty people picking up airplane kits in North
Plains .
Make sure you inventory for (12) MS21051-L08 nutplates needed to install the
seat skins. Every quickbuild kit builder I know of has had these missing.
I have tried three times now to get these from van's...they always show up
on the packing slip but not in the box...very frustrating not being to work
on step one because of missing parts.
Good luck.
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Drew" <noeldrew(at)iafrica.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lock-nutplates |
With regard to your request for help on the gritty paste that
helps with Phillips headed screws, try any brand of fine valve
grinding paste. It was recommended to me by an
experienced engineer and I had to admit to being surprised
by its effectiveness. A small quantity on the tip of the screwdriver
makes a significant difference.
Noel Drew, Durban, South Africa.
noeldrew(at)iafrica.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Manual Flap Lever |
I'd like to cut my manual flap lever short enough such that
the lever lies parallel to the seat skins. That amounts to
about 6" off the 20.5" arm. If anyone has done this are you
happy with the results or would you have left it its
original length. Leaving it at its original length requires
the lever to be slanted upward in order to clear the F-639
forward seat skin.
chet razer: sitting in cockpit pushing rudder pedals and
pulling flap linkage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lock-nutplates |
Louis Willig wrote:
>
> At OSH there was a demo of a product that you put on the head of a screw,
> especially a phillips screw, that makes a screwdriver grip better. Damn,
> Damn, Damn, I don't remember the name of the product. But I tried the stuff
> at the booth. Its incredible . Its basically a fine, gritty paste that
> creates so much friction between the screwdriver and the phillips notches,
> that very little down pressure is needed and the screwdriver cant slip up
> and out of the head. Can someone get the name and send it to the list?
>
> Louis Willig
> larywil(at)op.net
That stuff is common valve grinding compound.
I had a lot of trouble with my nutplates, used oil, WD40 etc
and still stripped a lot of screws, especially the #4's I
installed my removable wing tips with. Some of my tank
screws were so tight I had to remove them with EZ outs after
the heads completely stripped out. What worked for me was
to strike a happy medium. With a little practice and by
developing a "feel" I opened the nutplates up slightly with
a tap (oiled). Just enough that the screw can be installed
without damaging the head but still tight enough that it
won't back out due to vibration. That amounted to about two
threads of the tap extending past the bottom of the nut
plate.
chet
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Warren <Jim_Warren(at)BAYLOR.EDU> |
| Subject: | Re: Private Airport |
Private airports with phone numbers are listed in the AOPA Airport Guide.
These are available free to members of AOPA.
------------------------------
Date: 8/19/96 1:59 AM
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Does anybody know how to find a phone number or mailing address of a private
airport identified on a sectional? I was hoping to avoid writing a letter
to Oklomah City. An Internet address or other electronic means to search the
airport Dbase would be great. Any ideas?
Thanx, in advance,
Elon Ormsby
ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------
by baylor.edu (PMDF V5.0-6 #13309) id <01I8FYLJHHRKBDXP3Q(at)baylor.edu> for
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 23:30:55 -0700
From: elon ormsby <popsicle.llnl.gov!ormsby1(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: Private Airports
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
>> Bill Costello Wrote:
>> >How the hell do you put the screws into those nut plates
>> >without stripping the Phillips head.
*** snip ***
>>Don't use a tap on the nutplates. You will defeat the self-locking feature.
>> As I said in a previous post, use some anti-seize on the screw.
>
>For builder's who decide to go ahead and use oil, anyway: If you're going
>to paint your airplane, you might be sorry. Oil can wick is't way out of
>nooks and crannies to contaminate the surface after you've cleaned your A/C
>and are ready to paint.
Guys,
A good alternative is BoeLube (from Avery) which is water soluble
and will easily get cleaned off during prep. for final paint.
... Gil Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
RV6A, #20710 ..... shimming canopy frame/plexi interface with
JB Weld at roll bar (tip-up)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)interhop.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Elevator Trim |
Bill, I have had problems with getting screws into oval nut plates, and I
got the answer from the RV List ---- put a tap through first, and then put
oil on the bolt threads.
There is a catch 22, as you do not want to make it too easy, or they will
vibrate out on their own.
John Cocker
(Just doing the wiring)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "B F Gibbons" <gibbons(at)nwark.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6 Stuff For Sale |
It's all gone.
Thanks everyone.
BFG
BFG
gibbons(at)nwark.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Kane <dennis(at)robot.asimov.net> |
| Subject: | Question re: Quickbuild |
I have the empenage and wing kit which I have been working on for
a bit of time. Does anyone know If I would be able to buy the
Van's quickbuild kit for the fuselage and the rest ?
Respectfully,
Dennis Kane
STRAYlight Aviation Ephemera
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Question re: Quickbuild |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB8E17.F59B2C80
Dennis,
Two words, YES and NO! YES I believe you could buy the QB Kit without =
the Emp. But NO you can't get the QB Kit without the wings. Thats what =
Ken at Van's told me about 10 days ago. He said you may see a lot of =
wing kits on the market in the near future. Al prober(at)iwaynet.net =
Read: Supply & Demand
----------
From: Dennis Kane[SMTP:robot.asimov.net!dennis(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Monday, August 19, 1996 3:16 PM
Subject: RV-List: Question re: Quickbuild
I have the empenage and wing kit which I have been working on for=20
a bit of time. Does anyone know If I would be able to buy the=20
Van's quickbuild kit for the fuselage and the rest ?
Respectfully,
Dennis Kane
STRAYlight Aviation Ephemera
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB8E17.F59B2C80
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HDEhOI67AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAmGE=
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB8E17.F59B2C80--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark D Hiatt" <OttoPilot_MSN(at)msn.com> |
I've discovered that the longest unit of time is the interval between
ordering a kit from Van's and when it finally arrives. Time has been
slowing to a crawl around here since coming back from Wisconsin.
Saturday afternoon at Oshkosh, I popped into the tent and told 'em
to heat-up my VISA card. They took down all of the information and
I had to decide on manual and electric trim (electric) and smooth or
tail-lighted rudder (smooth). Fine. Said it would be a week after they
got home, maybe add a couple of days for typical Oshkosh
de-compression....
Checking the UPS web site (http://www.ups.com) every five or six
hours, I know my kits entered The System on the morning of the
14th. I feel like a kid again, sending two box tops and a dollar off to
General Mills for some back-of-the-cereal-box toy or gizmo. "Is it
here, yet? Is it here, yet? <>
They tell me that it looks like tomorrow or Wednesday should be
The Day. I hope I can get some sleep, tonight! And these things
are nearly always in stock, too. How do you folks ordering your
wing kits and finishing kits, etc. survive?
Mark D Hiatt
OttoPilot_MSN(at)msn.com
Aviation Forum Manager,
The Microsoft Network.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | Question re: Quickbuild |
Actually I've heard that the fuse/wings are match-drilled in combination at
the spar carry through and that you can only buy the QB kit less the
empenage. That's not to say though that you can't sell off your wings or
your empenage separately to someone else...
----------
From: Dennis Kane[SMTP:robot.asimov.net!dennis(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Monday, August 19, 1996 9:17 PM
Subject: RV-List: Question re: Quickbuild
I have the empenage and wing kit which I have been working on for
a bit of time. Does anyone know If I would be able to buy the
Van's quickbuild kit for the fuselage and the rest ?
Respectfully,
Dennis Kane
STRAYlight Aviation Ephemera
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
>I'm not sure about this either. How tall are you?
>
>I'm rapidly approaching the end of the requirements stage. I'm still trying
>to decide between a
>-6 or -8. I'm also in the tool buying stage, but that's a different matter.
>
>Mike Weller
>
I'm a couple of hairs (what's left anyway) over 6'4", mostly torso. My
seated rear to head height is 39.5". Having tried on both the -6T (canopy
raised 3" above normal -6 height) and -8 on for size, I had about 2"
headroom in both if that helps your decision. Good luck.
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | frankv(at)pec.co.nz |
| Subject: | Re: Question re: Quickbuild |
Dennis Kane said: >I have the
empenage and wing kit which I have been working on for a >bit of
time. Does anyone know If I would be able to buy the Van's
>quickbuild kit for the fuselage and the rest ?
According to the latest RVator, No. The Wings & Fuselage are a matched
set in the QB kits. You must buy both these at the same time. You can
build your own empennage and use it as part of a QB kit. The finishing
kit can be bought separately too.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RIVET/SCREW HOLES IN CANOPY |
I have drilled all the holes for the rivets/screws in the slider -6 canopy.
Now the question of what size to use for the final drill in the plexi?
The plans/instructions are unclear on how much oversize the holes should be.
There is one part that says all holes should be 1/8 oversize, For the 6/32
screws on the roll bar, that would almost the the same size as the head of
the screw.
On the AACQ 4-4 rivets on the top bar on the slider, with the flat .025 strip
between the bar and the canopy, and the .032 strip on top, the hole could be
made large. However, on the forward bar on the slider, the rivets have no
strips, and are directly against the plexi. How big should these be?.
The rear bar has the $*%(#*%$*# rear skirt on top of the glass, nothing
between the glass and the bar. How big?
If I can get pass this, I plan to write up several hints and major lessons
learned while fitting up and trimming the plixi to my ship. The best and
quickest lesson would be to use the instructions to start a fire.
Bruce Patton
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Question re: Quickbuild |
>I have the empenage and wing kit which I have been working on for
>a bit of time. Does anyone know If I would be able to buy the
>Van's quickbuild kit for the fuselage and the rest ?
>
>
Absolutely--I think Vans discounts $2K if you already bought the emp.
Jon Scholl
bcg007(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lock-nutplates |
The paste to use for the screwdriver tip is plain old valve grinding
compound, usually in a tube and available at any auto parts store!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Morrissey <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Manual Flap Lever |
Hi Chet,
Depends if you have arms like a Gorrilla!! Shortening the arm will increase
the amount of force required to activate the flaps. I would be inclined to
install the flaps as advertised and experiment with the length after you get
flying. Being a lad of a slightly large frame I always find the use of the
manual flap a bit of a struggle. My elbow has connected with the odd
passenger in the past. Best solution is a set of electric flaps.
That's my two cents worth!!
Cheers
John Morrissey
>I'd like to cut my manual flap lever short enough such that
>the lever lies parallel to the seat skins. That amounts to
>about 6" off the 20.5" arm. If anyone has done this are you
>happy with the results or would you have left it its
>original length. Leaving it at its original length requires
>the lever to be slanted upward in order to clear the F-639
>forward seat skin.
>
>chet razer: sitting in cockpit pushing rudder pedals and
>pulling flap linkage.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Manual Flap Lever |
>I'd like to cut my manual flap lever short enough such that
>the lever lies parallel to the seat skins. That amounts to
>about 6" off the 20.5" arm. If anyone has done this are you
>happy with the results or would you have left it its
>original length. Leaving it at its original length requires
>the lever to be slanted upward in order to clear the F-639
>forward seat skin.
>
>chet razer: sitting in cockpit pushing rudder pedals and
>pulling flap linkage.
Chet, I did this to mine and it works OK. Sometimes, when I have a
passenger and go to pull the last notch, I get a kink in my right shoulder
and have to reach over with my left arm to help. I've not had this problem
when flying solo. Guess I need to get on a body building program. Bob
Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | elon ormsby <ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Lock-nutplates |
Its basically a fine, gritty paste that
>creates so much friction between the screwdriver and the phillips notches,
>that very little down pressure is needed and the screwdriver cant slip up
>and out of the head. Can someone get the name and send it to the list?
>Louis Willig
>larywil(at)op.net
________________________
I have been using valve lapping compound, for years, to do what you are
refering to.
The brand is CLOVER and it comes in a duplex can. One half is COARSE and the
other half is FINE. Available at any auto parts (or lawnmower/small engine)
store. Should be less than $3.00.
Caution: The grit is extreemly abrasive. Clean thougoughly.
-Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | elon ormsby <ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Private Airports |
Allen, Jim, John, Phil & Don many thanks for the help and quick response.
I had never checked the "back" of "AOPA's Aviation USA" (always checking out
public- use airports in the front part). My local sectional identifies about
200 private airports. Unfortunately, the AOPA directory has only 46 listed
for ALL of California! Probably about only 1%-2% of all Calif private
airports. My local sectional identifies about 200 private airports. My guess
is there must be over a thousand private airports for Calif.
What a bunch of really nice people though. I called a couple of them. They
listed their airport with AOPA as a public service for pilots in case of an
in-flight emergency. However, permission to land still seams very
difficult(if not impossible) to acquire. However, 46 good people still put
their name in print while more than 1,000 want to remain as reclusive as
possible.(Who can blame them). In fact, if it wasn't for county use-permits
or INSURANCE we probably wouldn't see any of the little red dots on the NOAA
charts. My insurance company doesn't care if it's paved, gravel or grass -
all it has to be is a strip maintained as an airport. And the best evidence
to support that insurance requirement is to have it listed as an airport
with the FAA. One caution, some of the airports have not been used in many
years but still show on the charts. I guess once they appear on the chart
they stay forever, even though they may be unusable.
I'll try the Internet address tomorrow - thanks for that info.
I have all of the identifiers but that doesn't help. Any other ideas on an
easy way to get either the address or phone number would be welcome.
Elon
ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild for sale |
For sale RV6 quickbuild , for details call or write George Orndorff
(817)439-3280
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | propellers & altitude???? |
Question,
For a given engine; is the same propeller size and pitch that is optimum when
operating from a sea level strip, or when cruising at 4-5000' also the best
size and pitch for operating at a 9,000' msl strip or when cruising at
12-13,000'?
or
Is it best to use a smaller pitch and diameter at high altitude locations
because the engine is putting out less power?
Andy Gold
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
At 01:50 AM 8/20/96 UT, you wrote:
>I've discovered that the longest unit of time is the interval between
>ordering a kit from Van's and when it finally arrives. Time has been
>slowing to a crawl around here since coming back from Wisconsin.
> How do you folks ordering your
>wing kits and finishing kits, etc. survive?
>
>Mark D Hiatt
>OttoPilot_MSN(at)msn.com
>Aviation Forum Manager,
>The Microsoft Network.
>
>
I ordered my wing kit the day I ordered the emp kit. Plan on having each
future kit ARRIVE one month prior to the day it's needed in construction.
Remember parts do get back ordered and kits get delayed. This will assure
continuity during construction.
I arranged my shop and acquired the tools during the time it took the emp.
to get from Oregon to Long Island.
-Scott N506RV (finishing engine baffles)
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <lewis2(at)mailcenter.csap.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Missing Quickbuild Nutplates |
Rob Acker wrote:
>Make sure you inventory for (12) MS21051-L08 nutplates needed to install the
>seat skins. Every quickbuild kit builder I know of has had these missing.
>I have tried three times now to get these from van's...they always show up
>on the packing slip but not in the box...very frustrating not being to work
>on step one because of missing parts.
Tom at Vans (76455.1602(at)CompuServe.COM) sent me a dozen in an envelope in
a couple of days after I emailed him. No packing slip, just the nutplates.
I happened to have a book that showed a good drawing of the MS21051-L08
nutplates, so I was able to go ahead and drill the #30 holes in the ribs
and floors, and come back to install nutplates later. FYI, the MS21051-L08
looks like this (sort of):
/ \
| o | rivet hole (use #40 drill bit)
| |
| o | rivet hole (use #40 drill bit)
| |
| O | screw hole (use #30 drill bit, then #19 later to open it up)
\ /
If you take one of the nutplates you're using to attach the rest of the
floor skins and just grind off one of the ends (leaving the hole for the
screw and one hole for a rivet) you'll have a piece that looks exactly
like the lower 2/3 of the MS21051-L08. You can then use that as a
"template" (to insure proper edge spacing) to drill the #30 holes. You
can then drill the two #40 holes when you have the actual MS21051-L08 in
hand. That's what I did. That way I could press on to installing the
seats, until I ran up against the need for another part that was missing...
Has anybody heard the status on canopys lately? In early June Van's told
me that mine would be shipped in "about two weeks." It's been a month
and a half since then, and no canopy. My email request for canopy status
has gone unanswered, as has my request for the the status of my other
backordered kit parts.
Capt Tim Lewis
Kelly AFB, TX 210-442-4237
lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil or capntim(at)aol.com
COML ASEL IA
RV-6AQ #60023
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
Has everyone but me gotten a recent copy of the RVator? I havent seen one
since April but I hate to call Van's and pester them.
Mike Wills
RV-4 #4083 Patiently awaiting arrival of my wing kit
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Question re: Quickbuild |
<< I have the empenage and wing kit which I have been working on for
a bit of time. Does anyone know If I would be able to buy the
Van's quickbuild kit for the fuselage and the rest ? >>
You can use your tail section for a $2,000 credit however the wing and
fuselage have to be built together to ensure that the spar bolts match.
Try to sell your wing kit if you want to go with the QBK
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Manual Flap Lever |
I cut my flap handle about six inches. The shorter handle could make pulling
the last notch of flaps a challange if your'e a little guy of your wife flys
the aircraft. I'm glad I did it.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Weichert, Wolfgang" <WOLFGANG.WEICHERT(at)nrc.ca> |
| Subject: | 1) Slid. canopy seal, 2) Tail wheel steering |
My recently completed RV-6 has been inspected and I am now waiting for the
paper work to come in. In the meantime, I like to explore two issues:
1) I like to hear how other builders have sealed their sliding canopy, both
along the cockpit rails, and across the back of the fuselage.
2) I have done some taxi tests with the tailwheel not connected to the
rudder bar. The aircraft responded quickly and effectively to rudder input
only. I then connected the tailwheel steering springs and chains (taught)
and found that the aircraft becomes very twitchy to rudder input. What would
be the best solution, loosen the chains, or connect them on the rudder bar
closer in to the hinges so that the effective arm becomes shorter? I have
several hundred recent hours in taildraggers, so I don't consider myself a
beginner.
Wolfgang Weichert
wolfgang.weichert(at)nrc.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling out rivets |
> ... I mashed the heads of the two rivets (1/8" universal)
> that hold the RH root rib (rear half) to the HS-610/614 part of the
> front spar of the HS.
>
> I've now figured out what I was doing wrong with the gun (not holding
> it down hard enough), and driven the corresponding rivets in the LH
> side of the HS skeleton just fine.
The other thing to watch out for with universal head rivets is to make
sure you don't have the pressure turned up too high. I prefer fairly
high pressure with flush heads so the rivet gets set with a pretty short
burst, but if I go to universal heads and squeeze all the way the gun
wants to jump off the rivet head no matter how hard you hold it. I
REALLY had a problem with this when switching to a 3x from my usual 2x
before I figured this out.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
Editor, Home Wing Newsletter (Lame Duck)
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Yablon <brian(at)lanart.com> |
Scott Gesele wrote:
> I ordered my wing kit the day I ordered the emp kit. Plan on having each
> future kit ARRIVE one month prior to the day it's needed in construction.
Just as another data point, I ordered my emp and wing kit in mid
April. In June, Vans sent me a letter saying my wing kit would go to
crating on or around July 8th. I called this week to get the dope,
and was told not to expect it till mid September. This works out to a
22 week lead time (I was originally quoted 12 weeks). Moral: Plan WAY
ahead!
Not that I'm complaining. I've still got to get my emp out of the
shop...
Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com
RV-6A #24751
Finishing the rudder...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: propellers & altitude???? |
<< Question,
For a given engine; is the same propeller size and pitch that is optimum
when
operating from a sea level strip, or when cruising at 4-5000' also the best
size and pitch for operating at a 9,000' msl strip or when cruising at
12-13,000'?
or
Is it best to use a smaller pitch and diameter at high altitude locations
because the engine is putting out less power?
>>
Answer
As altitude increases, the density of air decreases. As such, manifold
preasure decreases causing maximum horsepower do decrease as well. Since the
engine makes less horsepower at altitude it is unable to turn the prop at the
same RPM.
However, as stated above, the air is less dense -so - there is less
resistance to the rotating prop. The prop is less efficent at altitude but
because the air is less dense True Airspeed increase with altitude.
An O-320 engine that makes 160 hp @ SL @ 2700 rpm will only make 120 hp @
8000' @ 2700. If you want more power @ 8000' you will need to turn more RPM,
say 2850 RPM. A prop configured for this type of operation is called a climb
prop. A climb prop returns great static RPM, climb and high altitude cruise
at the expense of poor low altitude cruise (because you will have to throttle
back at low altitude to keep your engine from running at VERY high RPM
therefore you will never see more than say 120 - 140 hp even at low
altitude), high fuel-burn and high engine wear.
Props are the transmissions of our aircraft and you must choose the right
"gear" for the flight profile that you typically fly. If you live in the
west and operate from high altitude airports, and assuming you have a 160 hp
engine, you might think about installing a 68 X 68 (low gear) prop which
will turn up above 3000 RPM @ SL but will give you good take-off and climb at
high altitude airports. At 8000' I would expect it to turn about 2850 RPM
and at 12,500' about 2700 RPM.
Anybody out there got a 68 X 68 that can confirm/dispute the above.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sheinlein(at)VNET.IBM.COM |
| Subject: | Question on riveting spreader angles to ribs in -6 wing |
I'm at the point of riveting the spreader angles on to the ribs
in the -6 wing. A few things bother me...
1. My plans do NOT show the angles being riveted to the ribs for
stations 83, 93, 103. (See top left of DWG 20.) I am assuming
this is a typo and ALL the angles should be riveted to their
corresponding ribs?
2. For the ribs in the wing-walk area, if you DO rivet the angles
on, the middle rivet seems to come awefully close to the raised
portion of the rib lightening hole. Certainly not enough room
for the rivet head to fit, without hitting it. The shop head
technically should NOT go on the rib side, but should go on the
angle side. (The shop head MAY just fit if I put it on the rib side.)
What did everyone else do for this?
3. It seems the angles are made in three different lengths:
7", 7 1/2", and 7 5/8". Could I just make them all 7 5/8"?
I am not 100% sure which lengths go at which stations. If I make
them all 7 5/8" long, then this doesn't really matter...
Thank in advance for any advice you may have!!!
Stephen Heinlein
sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com
(RV-6/6A... drilling ribs to main spar in right wing)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael A. Pilla" <pilla(at)exit109.com> |
I just received mine on Saturday; I'm always late, but it appears that
you are even later.
Mike PIlla
pilla(at)exit109.com
>Has everyone but me gotten a recent copy of the RVator? I havent seen one
>since April but I hate to call Van's and pester them.
>
>Mike Wills
>RV-4 #4083 Patiently awaiting arrival of my wing kit
>willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
>
>
Mike Pilla
pilla(at)exit109.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Engine/Prop Controls (3) |
> Is there a specific flight condition where you find response too
> slow with the vernier?
Two such flight conditions (both of which I've encountered in an RV-6) are:
1) You flare high or bounce. If you catch it with a little throttle
(not too much!) you can still kiss it on as opposed to slamming
it down. I've gotten pretty good at this (saving bad landings that
is -- still working on making good ones in the first place!)
2) A landing goes bad for whatever reason and you need to push full
throttle NOW. Or, you need to pull power OFF NOW.
I've had all of the above happen when I was still getting used to flying
the plane, and the vernier got in the way -- scared myself once or
twice. Since then I've gotten used to it and I keep my thumb depressed
on the button any time I'm close to the ground. Yes the vernier is
nicer for small adjustments, such as in cruise or pattern work. But I'm
more concerned with the other situations, and won't be putting one on my
RV-6.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
Editor, Home Wing Newsletter
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <Jim=Preston%303FS_DOT%Whiteman(at)szl.afres.af.mil> (Maj, 305FS/DOT, Whiteman |
AFB, 975-2968)
| Subject: | Re: Drilling out rivets |
charset=US-ASCII
>From edt.com!randall(at)matronics.com (Randall Henderson), on 8/20/96 9:26
AM:
if I go to universal heads and squeeze all the way the gun
wants to jump off the rivet head no matter how hard you hold it. I
REALLY had a problem with this when switching to a 3x from my usual 2x
before I figured this out.<
Randall brings up a point I've been curious about...
What is the consensus (yeah, right!!!) regarding which size rivet gun to
use. I took a "how-to" class last summer and used a 2X. It seemed fine.
I've also watched George & Becki Orndorff's Empennage and Sheet Metal Tools
tapes, and George says you can use either one. Other than for doing the
spars (which, I understand, you need a jack hammer for .. & ; ^ }), IS
there a reason to use one versus the other?
Question for George...which one were YOU using in your tapes?
Jim Preston
jpreston(at)szl.afres.af.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Missing Quickbuild Nutplates |
>
>Tom at Vans (76455.1602(at)CompuServe.COM) sent me a dozen in an envelope in
>a couple of days after I emailed him. No packing slip, just the nutplates.
>
>
>Has anybody heard the status on canopys lately? In early June Van's told
>me that mine would be shipped in "about two weeks." It's been a month
>and a half since then, and no canopy. My email request for canopy status
>has gone unanswered, as has my request for the the status of my other
>backordered kit parts.
>
>
>Capt Tim Lewis
>Kelly AFB, TX 210-442-4237
>lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil or capntim(at)aol.com
>COML ASEL IA
>RV-6AQ #60023
>
>
Thanks for the info Tim. I haven't gotten far enough to actually need the
nutplates yet (full time work & school keep me busy...in October with degree
in hand my real education, building airplanes, starts).
I picked up my canopy with the kit. They only had three in stock, I got to
hand pick the best one .
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bill garrett <bgarrett(at)fast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Question re: Quickbuild |
>
>>I have the empenage and wing kit which I have been working on for
>>a bit of time. Does anyone know If I would be able to buy the
>>Van's quickbuild kit for the fuselage and the rest ?
>>
>>
>
>Absolutely--I think Vans discounts $2K if you already bought the emp.
>
>Jon Scholl
>bcg007(at)aol.com
>
The $2K discount is for deletion of the empennage kit only. You cannot get
the QB kit without the wings for one VERY GOOD REASON - the main spar is
drilled with the fuselage bulkhead and it would not be possible to match
your wings to the bulkhead in a quickbuilt fuselage.
Bill
Bill Garrett Barb Garrett
RV-6A airplane builder Quilter and Quilt Historian
bgarrett(at)fast.net Pottstown, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
<< I just received mine on Saturday; I'm always late, but it appears that
you are even later. >>
I received mine in the last week of July. In light of this and the dramatic
amount of postings regarding blown shipping dates and huge lead times, I
think maybe Van is trying to bite off a little more than he can chew.
Granted, they are moving a LOT more product than they were a few years ago,
but come on - I think maybe a few more employees might be in order.
Steam-venting mode off.
Ed Bundy (wrestling engine baffles into submission)
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RIVET/SCREW HOLES IN CANOPY |
<< On the AACQ 4-4 rivets on the top bar on the slider, with the flat .025
strip
between the bar and the canopy, and the .032 strip on top, the hole could be
made large. However, on the forward bar on the slider, the rivets have no
strips, and are directly against the plexi. How big should these be?.
The rear bar has the $*%(#*%$*# rear skirt on top of the glass, nothing
between the glass and the bar. How big?
If I can get pass this, I plan to write up several hints and major lessons
learned while fitting up and trimming the plixi to my ship. The best and
quickest lesson would be to use the instructions to start a fire.
>>
I agree completely. Download the archives - this subject was batted around
for quite a while after I asked virtually the same questions. There were
quite a few ideas that differed somewhat and I was able to make some educated
choices on how to proceed. My first tip is what you already figured out. Do
NOT make the holes 1/8" oversized! I talked with 2 different people at Van's
about that and other mistakes in the canopy section, and they seemed very
disinterested in the whole thing. Very frustrating.
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Question on riveting spreader angles to ribs in -6 wing |
<< 1. My plans do NOT show the angles being riveted to the ribs for
stations 83, 93, 103. (See top left of DWG 20.) I am assuming
this is a typo and ALL the angles should be riveted to their
corresponding ribs? >>
My drawings depict LP4-3 pop rivets at these stations on 1" spacing.
However, they don't go into the angles, as they are not flush on the surface
of the spar web. The rivets only hold the ribs to the spar web.
<< 3. It seems the angles are made in three different lengths:
7", 7 1/2", and 7 5/8". Could I just make them all 7 5/8"?
I am not 100% sure which lengths go at which stations. If I make
them all 7 5/8" long, then this doesn't really matter... >>
It's been a long time but I think all of the angles are the same length. The
flange of the main spar channel is the same width along the entire legth, so
I can't see why the angles would need to be different lengths. I can't find
that drawing, but maybe someone else knows.
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
Received mine two weeks ago.
DougMel(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Quickbuild Arm Rest Question |
*** Tim Lewis said ***
>I found that I needed to change the dimensions on the plans (page Q9) for
>the arm rest (F-620) form block. I initially cut out the form block as
>per the plans, and made the arm rest. I found that the aft end of the
>form block was 1/8" wider than I wanted it to be (it stuck out beyond the
>edge of the bulkhead to which it is attached) , and the front end of F-620
>was about 3/8" narrower than the factory-made arm rest. This makes it so
>narrow its tough to install the two rivets at the front end of the arm rest.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I have a question here .....
My plans (sheet 31, section H-H ) do not show any parts/brackets or
rivets at the front end of the F-620 armrest. So, with reference to the
comment above .... Is this a later change? ... has something been added on
the QuickBuild fuselages only? ... and do the QB fuselages follow the basic
set of -6 plans (with added sheets)? ... or do they have their own set of
plans?
.... Enquiring kit builders want to know .....
.... Gil (are my plans different?) Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
RV6A, #20701 ... shimming tip-up canopy frame, also want to know plexi. hole
size like Bruce P. posting to-day
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 1) Slid. canopy seal, 2) Tail wheel steering |
<< 2) I have done some taxi tests with the tailwheel not connected to the
rudder bar. The aircraft responded quickly and effectively to rudder input
only. I then connected the tailwheel steering springs and chains (taught)
and found that the aircraft becomes very twitchy to rudder input. What would
be the best solution, loosen the chains, or connect them on the rudder bar
closer in to the hinges so that the effective arm becomes shorter? I have
several hundred recent hours in taildraggers, so I don't consider myself a
beginner. >>
There has to be some slack in the chains. I would guess that I have almost
one inch of slack in my chains.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Zenner <mvz(at)cats.ucsc.edu> |
| Subject: | RVs on floats... |
Howdy Listers!
I recall seeing a small blurb on a guy in Canada who had put his
RV-6 on a pair of custom floats, and as I recall was planning to offer them
as a kit. I also recall having seen a snapshot of this in a collage-type
page in Vans' brochure.
Does anyone know if anything has become of this project?
For that matter, does anyone know of any other RV-float projects?
Seems to me that an RV-8 on a nice pair of floats might just be so much fun
it is probably illegal 8-)...
Thanks for any info,
-Michael Zenner, RV-8 Wannabe.
Michael Zenner CP-AMSEL-IA
mvz(at)cats.ucsc.edu "Here a fool found salvation"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino) |
Mike,
I didn't get my RVator yet either. Everyone I know has had one for
almost two weeks. I called Van's today to have a new one sent.
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn# 80039
>Has everyone but me gotten a recent copy of the RVator? I havent seen one
>since April but I hate to call Van's and pester them.
>
>Mike Wills
>RV-4 #4083 Patiently awaiting arrival of my wing kit
>willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Heeelp! propellers....... |
Gents I have an RV4 whith a 180HP 0-360 I want to use an Ed Streba
prop.....any advise on what pitch and diameter I should use?
Also wanted to know are there any builders out here in Connecticut?
Regards,
Matt Fairy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_Nilsson?= <goran.nilsson(at)almhult.mail.telia.com> |
Goran Nilsson Chapter 222 Sweden
I=B4m a builder/owner of a RV-6 serial no 20274 reg SE-XLD it flew
for the first time 1991-07-21.Today it have 420 h TT.
If you want to have a look on it, look in Sport Aviation aug 1996
page 88.It is powered by a Lyc O-360 with a Pacetter 200 prop.
I fly by the rules of IFG :) I have been all over in Sweden and I
have visit Estonia,Poland,Germany,United Kingdom and France.
Last weekend I visit a RV meeting in Hoganas Sweden there was all=20
RV-6 in Sweden (5) and a RV-4 from Germany.
Sorry about my bad englich spelling, but a think you understand.
(IFG=3DI follow GPS)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vaccaromik(at)aol.com |
Got the June '96 issue in the mail last week.
vac
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vaccaromik(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Question re: Quickbuild |
Sir,
Unfortunately, the spar carry through structure (main fuse bulkhead) is
matche drilled with the spars. Thus, you can't order just a QB fuse. If you
choose to sell your wings, Van's will deduct 2 grand from the QB kit price
for your already completed tail.
Mike Vaccaro
RV-6 21026
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vaccaromik(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling out rivets |
Dear Sir,
I've had sucess using 2X, 3X and 4X guns when working on various parts of my
RV-6. Just depends on the the job, but obviously the bigger gus require
fewer hits to properly set (I prefer this as it minimizes the problems
encountered with work hardening the rivets whilst setting). Adjusting air
pressure to suit the gun/task is critical. Riveting requires surprisingly
little pressure (25-45 PSI). The key is to test the hammer prior to setting
rivets--it should make a relatively light indentation in a peice of medium
hard wood (the plywood in my workbench works fine for this little test).
Each of your guns should have a regulator in the line for fine tuning
adjustments.
Mike Vaccaro
RV-6 21026
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
While we are exploring the nutplate issue......
Are nutplates structural? If so does elarging the hole in the top piece then
remove the structural properties of the nutplate? That is does the screw
depend upon the top piece bearing against the side of the shaft or is the
structure held by frictional forces between the screw head and underlying
material? This question is raised in my mind by my decision to use nutplates
instead of pop rivets for the baggage floor so that I can access this area
for a strobe power supply. I sort of assumed that replaxing one pop with a
nutplate would be structurally equivalent (or better). Does anyone know if
my assumption is valid?
Cheers
Leo Davies 6A
>Exactly what I do too, except that I then open the #30 hole to #16
>rather than #19. I leave the matching hole on the other part #19.
>This accommodates any slight misalignment.
>Peter Bennett
>Sydney Australia
>RV6 working on seats.
>
>> Regarding mounting and installing nut plates, to get the screw to
>> go in properly it is very important to have the hole in the skin
>> centered on the hole in the nut plate. some of you old timers may
>> already know this little trick to holding the nut plate in place
>> while drilling the hole for the rivets. Drill the hole in the skin
>> where the screw goes through with a #30 drill then put a 1/8 cleco
>> through this hole and into the nut plate where the screw goes
>> to hold it in place while drilling the two #40 holes for the rivets
>> remove cleco and drill screw hole to proper size, this pretty well
>> keeps nut plate centered on hole.
>> Hope this makes sense worked well for me.
>> --
>> Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) (Hillsboro,
>> OR)
>> jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
| Subject: | Nut Plates & Taps |
They make 'em so the fastener will not back out! I hate to see proposals
like this without the proper reservation, and that is: You may open the
threads slightly with this method, but not to the point that you end up
with
a plain non-locking nut. I think we should all be careful not to post
ill-founded construction and maintenance practices lest the newbies build a
less than airworthy craft we might be riding in some day.
========
I have found it is sometimes necessary to use a tap on the nutplates! Some
of those nut plates are WAY TO TIGHT. If you have a bear of time screwing
the screw in new......good luck getting it out 5 to 10 years from now!
Yes it should be tight and they are still tight even after you run the tap
through them ONCE. It is not necessary to bottom out the tap, just go
halfway down. You will appreciate this nut plate more when your upside
down, crawled under the instument panel using a stubby phillups driver with
you arms in knots performing an aerobatic screw installation with the fuel
selector knob trying to break your ribs.
Go try it.....gezzzzz!
Greg Bordelon
greg(at)brokersys.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)Op.Net> |
I've been reading the replies to the question of "can the Flap Handle be
shortened?". I have never looked closely at the lever of a -6 flap handle, but,
if it is a hollow handle, I can think of several methods of setting into a
shortened handle a telescoping handle to regain 6, 8, or even 10 inches after
the first notch or two of flaps have been pulled. The extension could even
be spring retractable so that upon landing, the flaps could be quickly
dropped without first pushing the extension back in.
Oh, well. I just revealed the only good mechanical idea I ever had. If it
can't be done, just dissregard me. I'm still in la-la land over the RV-4 I
bought last week.
By the way, can someone explain why you may not drill out a rivet to a
slightly larger size and replace it with the next size up rivet? Are the
stress/strain
and fracture properties of aircraft grade materials so critical. Or is it a
problem of cosmetics? My only foray into this field is Jeppeson's Aircraft
Sheet Metal book. It never gives reasons for anything. I am not a builder,
but having just purchased a beautiful RV-4 that needs a few additions and
modifications, I am ready to learn the skills and art of A/C building.
Thanks for the "List"
Louis Willig
larywil(at)op.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: RVs on floats... |
Eustace Bowhay is continuing work on the RV-6F float project.
Last I heard was about a month ago, he was taxi testing the
RV-6AF (Amphibious float version) and was expecting to flight
test soon.
Give him a call. He did express enthusiasm for the RV-8F idea
when I talked to him last. I think what he needs is someone
with an RV-8 to put em on!
His # is 604-675-4428 (Salmon Arm, BC, Canada).
Randall Henderson
PS. Eustace is an old-time bush pilot from Canada He used to
run flight operations for an oil company up there. His "company
plane", which he used to fly between drilling sites, was a P-51.
After he retired he bought a DC-3 which he leased out, and
occasionally used to take his family on vacations. He's a pretty
interesting guy!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: 1) Slid. canopy seal, 2) Tail wheel steering |
>
><< 2) I have done some taxi tests with the tailwheel not connected to the
> rudder bar. The aircraft responded quickly and effectively to rudder input
> only. I then connected the tailwheel steering springs and chains (taught)
> and found that the aircraft becomes very twitchy to rudder input. What would
>
> be the best solution, loosen the chains, or connect them on the rudder bar
> closer in to the hinges so that the effective arm becomes shorter? I have
> several hundred recent hours in taildraggers, so I don't consider myself a
> beginner. >>
>
>There has to be some slack in the chains. I would guess that I have almost
>one inch of slack in my chains.
>
>Gary Corde
>RV-6 N211GC
>
>
Interesting; I have no slack at all. I replaced the chains with 1/16" cable
and have had no problem with control. In fact, I like the positive response
that I have with this setup.
As they say, different strokes for different folks. Maybe I just don't know
any better.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: RVs on floats... |
>Howdy Listers!
> I recall seeing a small blurb on a guy in Canada who had put his
>RV-6 on a pair of custom floats, and as I recall was planning to offer them
>as a kit. I also recall having seen a snapshot of this in a collage-type
>page in Vans' brochure.
>
>Does anyone know if anything has become of this project?
>
>For that matter, does anyone know of any other RV-float projects?
>
>Seems to me that an RV-8 on a nice pair of floats might just be so much fun
>it is probably illegal 8-)...
>
>Thanks for any info,
>
> -Michael Zenner, RV-8 Wannabe.
>Michael Zenner CP-AMSEL-IA
>mvz(at)cats.ucsc.edu "Here a fool found salvation"
>
>
>
While on 'holiday' in Canada a couple of weeks ago my wife and I visited Ken
and Marge Hoshowski in Salmon Arm, BC. They're good friends with Eustace
Bowhay. He's the gent that put the RV-6 on floats.
Eustace is now working on Amphib floats for his RV-6. The floats are on the
-6 but he's only flown off the pavement so far. He feels that there needs
to be some work yet on location of the floats. They're too far forward by
an inch or two now.
I took some pictures of the aircraft with the amphib floats. The first
thing I noticed about the -6 was that it is very tall when the floats are on
the -6.
When you build an aircraft, at least in the USA, you decide what kind of
gear to put it on. If you want to put it on floats, skis or wheels you make
the choice.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Drilling out rivets |
> What is the consensus (yeah, right!!!) regarding which size rivet gun to
> use.
A year or two ago this thread was thoroughly explored, but I don't
suppose it would hurt to reiterate for the new guys....
I think the consensus was about 50-50. I have a 2x and a 3x and
personally I prefer the 2x as it's smaller, lighter, and shorter-
coupled, which means it's easier to control with one hand. I don't find
it lacking in power, although with longer 1/8" rivets it may take a bit
longer to set the rivet. People who prefer the 3X say it sets rivets
with fewer hits, although I think this mainly applies to longer 1/8"
rivets, and you will probably have to turn the pressure down a lot of
the time (e.g. when setting with thin skins, or universal heads so it
won't jump off the head, etc.). Anyhow, I can vouch for the fact that a
2x will handle it, I do everything with it and my 3x just sits in the
drawer.
I think someone once said they managed to do spar rivets with a 3x gun
but I think that would be pretty minimal for that job.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
Editor, Home Wing Newsletter (Lame Duck)
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Manual Flap Lever |
>I'd like to cut my manual flap lever short enough such that
>the lever lies parallel to the seat skins. That amounts to
Chet; I did this and later regretted it in a way. It isn't bad until you
are on a go around and the pressure builds up a little, then to release the
button, you have to raise the handle a little to take the pressure off of
the button. The angle of the handle at that time makes an odd combination
with my arm/shoulder etc and results are a nerve pinch or something in my
shoulder. this then requires two hands/arms to raise handle, push button
and then let the flap handle down. It makes a rather spooky flight
condition at the go around. I did it once with my wife in the plane-- she
said no more of that bobbling around--she gave me the electric flap kit as a
gift!!!! So some good things came of it. The elect flaps are well worth it
to me.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 1) Slid. canopy seal, 2) Tail wheel steering |
>There has to be some slack in the chains. I would guess that I have almost
>one inch of slack in my chains.
>
>Gary Corde
>RV-6 N211GC
Gary, Why does ther have to be slack in the chains? I've tried mine with
both slack and straight (with very little if no stretch to the springs) I
guess I liked the more positive steering provided by taunt chains. What
would be the advantage of slack or is it just what you're accustomed to.
None of the other taildraggers that I've owned have had much if any slack, a
Maule, 90 hp Cub and a C-170. Bob Skinner BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Huffaker <huffaker(at)utw.com> |
| Subject: | 8 rudder balance. |
Just a small thing I found while working on the mass balance
for my rudder: The plans call for a MS24694-S58 screw to hold
on the wieght, but there is no such screw listed on the
parts list! After much searching I found the AN509-10R16 in
bag 801, seemed like it might be the same thing as previous
models did not have a mass balanced rudder, and all the other
balnce hardware was in here. A check of the AS&S catalog showed
that both these designations refer to the same thing with the AN...
version being older. I just thought I would share this with the
list to spare other people the hour or so of searching & fretting I
did.
As a side note, Is there any place with the contents lists for
these bags online? Would be easier to search this in a text editor
than trying to read that page of little text to find a XYZ998 so you
know which bag to look in. If there isn't anything available, I could
type it in and put it on my web page.
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (huffaker(at)utw.com)
President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
AW # 467 Biff Tarkiss
RV-8 80091 on Rudder mass balance.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | RV-6A for sale, $38,000 |
Yes, that's the price. I've never seen the plane but a local man in Seattle
posted an ad on the internet for an RV-6A with 150 HP engine, Pacesetter
prop, standard instruments, 130 TTAFE for sale. The owner/builder only
wants $38,000 for it. Any RV-6A in decent condition is worth at least
$50,000. If I had the money sitting around I wouldn't be telling the world
about this aircraft; I'd have already bought it and advertised it for $55,000.
You can reach the owner/builder, Mel Block, at 1-509-633-1513 in Eastern
Washington. His daughter's boyfriend, James, has flown the aircraft and he
can be reached at 1-206-325-9055 in Seattle.
The aircraft also has 720 Comm, transponder with mode C and a Garmin GPS.
Hey, all you guys that just bought the quick build kit should have bought
this aircraft. Only $18K more and it comes with engine, instruments and
avionics.
Let the bidding begin------
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Boudro" <dboudro(at)pop.nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: propellers & altitude???? |
I have a O-320 160 hp from Van's (new). My home field is at 5830 ft. I
have
a 68x71 wood Pacesetter propeller and feel I could use a 68x73 at this
altitude
because I have about 1/2 " of throttle left at 2550 rpm i.e. the engine
could put out
more power if the prop could keep the rpm down. I flew this exact
configuration
at sea level with my first RV-4 and at those altitudes it seemed perfect.
I'll live
with what I got though because it is very economical ( 7.3 gph) and my gps
always shows a good ground speed, usually between 165-175 mph at 10000 ft
without unusual winds.
Dan Boudro
RV-4
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
----------
> From: aol.com!RV6junkie(at)matronics.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: propellers & altitude????
> Date: Tuesday, August 20, 1996 10:58 AM
>
>
> << Question,
> For a given engine; is the same propeller size and pitch that is
optimum
> when
> operating from a sea level strip, or when cruising at 4-5000' also the
best
> size and pitch for operating at a 9,000' msl strip or when cruising at
> 12-13,000'?
>
> or
>
> Is it best to use a smaller pitch and diameter at high altitude
locations
> because the engine is putting out less power?
> >>
>
> Answer
> As altitude increases, the density of air decreases. As such, manifold
> preasure decreases causing maximum horsepower do decrease as well.
Since the
> engine makes less horsepower at altitude it is unable to turn the prop
at the
> same RPM.
>
> However, as stated above, the air is less dense -so - there is less
> resistance to the rotating prop. The prop is less efficent at altitude
but
> because the air is less dense True Airspeed increase with altitude.
>
> An O-320 engine that makes 160 hp @ SL @ 2700 rpm will only make 120 hp
@
> 8000' @ 2700. If you want more power @ 8000' you will need to turn more
RPM,
> say 2850 RPM. A prop configured for this type of operation is called a
climb
> prop. A climb prop returns great static RPM, climb and high altitude
cruise
> at the expense of poor low altitude cruise (because you will have to
throttle
> back at low altitude to keep your engine from running at VERY high RPM
> therefore you will never see more than say 120 - 140 hp even at low
> altitude), high fuel-burn and high engine wear.
>
> Props are the transmissions of our aircraft and you must choose the
right
> "gear" for the flight profile that you typically fly. If you live in
the
> west and operate from high altitude airports, and assuming you have a
160 hp
> engine, you might think about installing a 68 X 68 (low gear) prop
which
> will turn up above 3000 RPM @ SL but will give you good take-off and
climb at
> high altitude airports. At 8000' I would expect it to turn about 2850
RPM
> and at 12,500' about 2700 RPM.
>
> Anybody out there got a 68 X 68 that can confirm/dispute the above.
>
> Gary Corde
> RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bill garrett <bgarrett(at)fast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Question on riveting spreader angles to ribs in |
-6 wing
>I'm at the point of riveting the spreader angles on to the ribs
>in the -6 wing. A few things bother me...
>
> 1. My plans do NOT show the angles being riveted to the ribs for
> stations 83, 93, 103. (See top left of DWG 20.) I am assuming
> this is a typo and ALL the angles should be riveted to their
> corresponding ribs?
You need to look at a different drawing. The last FIVE (toward the wingtip)
spreader angles DO NOT get riveted to the ribs. Use drawing #13 and look at
the second and third depictions from the top . The spreader angles at
stations 108.5, 98.5, 89.2 and 78.125 are riveted to the spar web and spar
strips with standard rivets. However, the one at 78.125 must also be
prepared to attach the tiedown. The spreader angle at 67.75 is riveted to
the spar strips only. BTW, the drawing doesn't seem to show a spreader
angle at rib station 53.5 but I figured out from somewhere that I thought
one should go there.
The 8 main ribs closest to the wing root are the only ones that have
spreader angles riveted to them (and then bolted and pop riveted eventually
to the spar strips) along with the five innermost nose ribs for the leading
edge skin.
> 2. For the ribs in the wing-walk area, if you DO rivet the angles
> on, the middle rivet seems to come awefully close to the raised
> portion of the rib lightening hole. Certainly not enough room
> for the rivet head to fit, without hitting it. The shop head
> technically should NOT go on the rib side, but should go on the
> angle side. (The shop head MAY just fit if I put it on the rib side.)
> What did everyone else do for this?
On mine I was able to rivet 8 of the ten with the rivet head on the rib side
(all were right at the limit of fitting without damaging the raised ring.
The other two I put the shop head on the rib side for the middle rivet and
in each case it just barely fit.
> 3. It seems the angles are made in three different lengths:
> 7", 7 1/2", and 7 5/8". Could I just make them all 7 5/8"?
> I am not 100% sure which lengths go at which stations. If I make
> them all 7 5/8" long, then this doesn't really matter...
I think I made all of mine maybe a hair over 7" (which I got from the half
scale drawing of section C-C' on drawing 13 and they all worked fine. I
think 7 5/8" would be too long; they would probably dig into the bend radius
of the spar web on those outer angles that attach directly to the spar web.
BTW, I lightly marked all my angles with a set of number and letter punches
as I fit them so that I knew many operations later where each one went. I
would highly recommend you mark them in some way.
>Thank in advance for any advice you may have!!!
>
>Stephen Heinlein
>sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com
>(RV-6/6A... drilling ribs to main spar in right wing)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Nut Plates & Taps |
My solution to the too tight nutplates was to get a machine screw with a hex
head and put a bit of antiseize compound on it. Using a nut driver or
electric screw driver with a hex bit, I ran the hex head screw into the
nutplate and backed it out. This lubricates the threads just a bit and the
screws go in just right. They are still tight and won't back out but they
don't strip the heads of the Phillips head slots. The hex head gives you all
of the torque needed without the chance of stripping out the hole or slot of
a screw. Using antiseize will not require any preparation when you get ready
to paint as it won't creep out of the nutplate to interfere with the primer
or paint bonding.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Missed Shipping dates |
The following is quoted from a letter from Barbara Billman, Van's Office
Manager:
Our canopy vendor has always had trouble keeping up with our demand and
breaking the mold sure didn't help."
Fortunately, I have enough to do that the 3-4 weeks delay isn't going to
hold me back.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
finishing kit on order
fuselage out of the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Nutplates--the best kept secret |
Every few months the "It sure is tough to put screws in brand new
nutplates" thread reappears. Thats OK, it just means we have another new
crop of RV builders.
Wanna know the secret to installing screws in brand new nutplates? Boelube.
It's dry, so it does not leave a residue that collects dirt. AND IT WORKS!
Three bucks for a lifetime supply from Avery, and yuou'll never have a
problem again.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
finishing kit on order
fuselage out of the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | 8 rudder balance. |
I too noticed that there is no hardware included to mount the lead in the
rudder top. Van's didn't give it to me either.
As for bag numbers, I spent a couple hours the first day unloading the
contents of all the bags into marked clear drawers based on the AN part
number (arranging screws, rivets by size) and I'm convinced that it saved
me 10 hours rummaging through lunchbaggies trying to find pop rivets. It's
also cool to see all the hardware disappear - when the drawers are empty go
buy the next kit...
-Mike
----------
From: Brian Huffaker[SMTP:utw.com!huffaker(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 1996 7:29 PM
Subject: RV-List: 8 rudder balance.
Just a small thing I found while working on the mass balance
for my rudder: The plans call for a MS24694-S58 screw to hold
on the wieght, but there is no such screw listed on the
parts list! After much searching I found the AN509-10R16 in
bag 801, seemed like it might be the same thing as previous
models did not have a mass balanced rudder, and all the other
balnce hardware was in here. A check of the AS&S catalog showed
that both these designations refer to the same thing with the AN...
version being older. I just thought I would share this with the
list to spare other people the hour or so of searching & fretting I
did.
As a side note, Is there any place with the contents lists for
these bags online? Would be easier to search this in a text editor
than trying to read that page of little text to find a XYZ998 so you
know which bag to look in. If there isn't anything available, I could
type it in and put it on my web page.
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (huffaker(at)utw.com)
President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
AW # 467 Biff Tarkiss
RV-8 80091 on Rudder mass balance.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rassp.hac.com!gil(at)matronics.com (Gil Alexander) (by way of balencia(at)staffmail.earthlink.net) |
| Subject: | Quickbuild Arm Rest Question |
*** Tim Lewis said ***
>I found that I needed to change the dimensions on the plans (page Q9) for
>the arm rest (F-620) form block. I initially cut out the form block as
>per the plans, and made the arm rest. I found that the aft end of the
>form block was 1/8" wider than I wanted it to be (it stuck out beyond the
>edge of the bulkhead to which it is attached) , and the front end of F-620
>was about 3/8" narrower than the factory-made arm rest. This makes it so
>narrow its tough to install the two rivets at the front end of the arm rest.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I have a question here .....
My plans (sheet 31, section H-H ) do not show any parts/brackets or
rivets at the front end of the F-620 armrest. So, with reference to the
comment above .... Is this a later change? ... has something been added on
the QuickBuild fuselages only? ... and do the QB fuselages follow the basic
set of -6 plans (with added sheets)? ... or do they have their own set of
plans?
.... Enquiring kit builders want to know .....
.... Gil (are my plans different?) Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
RV6A, #20701 ... shimming tip-up canopy frame, also want to know plexi. hole
size like Bruce P. posting to-day
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_?= Nilsson <almhult.mail.telia.com!goran.nilsson(at)matronics.com> |
(by
way of balencia(at)staffmail.earthlink.net)
Goran Nilsson Chapter 222 Sweden
I=B4m a builder/owner of a RV-6 serial no 20274 reg SE-XLD it flew
for the first time 1991-07-21.Today it have 420 h TT.
If you want to have a look on it, look in Sport Aviation aug 1996
page 88.It is powered by a Lyc O-360 with a Pacetter 200 prop.
I fly by the rules of IFG :) I have been all over in Sweden and I
have visit Estonia,Poland,Germany,United Kingdom and France.
Last weekend I visit a RV meeting in Hoganas Sweden there was all=20
RV-6 in Sweden (5) and a RV-4 from Germany.
Sorry about my bad englich spelling, but a think you understand.
(IFG=3DI follow GPS)
=20
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
You wrote:
>
>Goran Nilsson Chapter 222 Sweden
>
>I=B4m a builder/owner of a RV-6 serial no 20274 reg SE-XLD it flew
>for the first time 1991-07-21.Today it have 420 h TT.
>If you want to have a look on it, look in Sport Aviation aug 1996
>page 88.It is powered by a Lyc O-360 with a Pacetter 200 prop.
>
>I fly by the rules of IFG :) I have been all over in Sweden and I
>have visit Estonia,Poland,Germany,United Kingdom and France.
>
>Last weekend I visit a RV meeting in Hoganas Sweden there was all=20
>RV-6 in Sweden (5) and a RV-4 from Germany.
>
>Sorry about my bad englich spelling, but a think you understand.
>
>(IFG=3DI follow GPS)
>
>
Hi Goran,
Thanks for the intro. Good to hear from you. Your English is a heck of
a lot better than my Swedish! I really admire people who deal so well
with multiple languages.
Best regards,
Bill Costello
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 | Reserved N97WC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Mayer <72652.670(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Mark,
If you call Van's to enquire about the kit status, it'll arrive at your
door the very next day. Anyway, that's how it works for me!
Steve Mayer
RV-4 emp
----- Forwarded Message -----
FROM: "Mark D Hiatt", INTERNET:OttoPilot_MSN(at)msn.com
DATE: 8/19/96, 10:51 PM
Re: RV-List: Time Units.
I've discovered that the longest unit of time is the interval between
ordering a kit from Van's and when it finally arrives. Time has been
slowing to a crawl around here since coming back from Wisconsin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | The Smiths <kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 8 rudder balance. |
Michael Angiulo wrote:
>
> I too noticed that there is no hardware included to mount the lead in the
> rudder top. Van's didn't give it to me either.
>
" After much searching I found the AN509-10R16 in
bag 801, seemed like it might be the same thing as previous
models did not have a mass balanced rudder, and all the other
balnce hardware was in here. A check of the AS&S catalog showed
that both these designations refer to the same thing with the AN...
version being older. "
A better read says it was there, me thinks...
--
Ken Smith RV-6 Empanage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Question on riveting spreader angles to ribs in -6 wing |
>On mine I was able to rivet 8 of the ten with the rivet head on the rib side
>(all were right at the limit of fitting without damaging the raised ring.
>The other two I put the shop head on the rib side for the middle rivet and
>in each case it just barely fit.
Hi All:
Seems to me that we use our rivets in SHEAR, not TENSION. Therefore, it does
not matter which side the shop head goes on. I don't think the rivet, as a
fastener, has but a tiny bit of strength in the tension mode.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Mertinooke" <mmertino(at)modicon.com> |
| Subject: | Tailwheel springs |
Hi;
FWIW, I fly from a "turf" (i.e. mostly mud and rocks) field, almost
entirely taildraggers. The common "wisdom" is to leave a little slack
in the chains to minimize shock to the airframe when you whack a
rock. Personally, I set mine for maybe 1/4 inch of slack.
Mike
Mike Mertinooke
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heeelp! propellers....... |
>Also wanted to know are there any builders out here in Connecticut?
>
>
>Regards,
>
>
>Matt Fairy
>
>
Matt,
I'm not in Connecticut, but just over the sound. My RV-6A is nearing
completion, working on all that fun stuff FWF. If you were to fly into ISP
or Brookhaven , I could pick you up if you wanted to see the project.
-Scott N506RV
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Question on riveting spreader angles to ribs in -6 wing |
bill garrett wrote:
> Various spreader angle comments for Stephen Heinlein.
I'm a little concerned by the wording on the replies (not just yours,
Bill) about this question. First of all, there are spreader angles at a
few stations (like the one where the tiedown bracket is attached. These
are not attached to any rib at all, and are 7 5/8" long, as I recall.
Then there are the angle pieces used to attach the ribs modified to
clear the spar strips. These are ALL riveted to the face of the rib, no
exceptions. These are also all short enough to fit within the rib, but
I don't have the dimension here. Of all the angles riveted to the rib
faces, only the ones closest to the tip end are close enough to the
rib's flange to interfere with the pop rivet that will hold the rib to
the spar; these angles are drilled with oversize holes to clear the pop
rivets. DON'T use the preview plans, DO use the full size plans to see
the locations of all the angle pieces (one of the two general spar
drawings shows the locations in top-down view). Also, see the photos in
the builder's manual for details of the rib attachment, it'll help a
lot. This is just to clarify 1) the difference between spreader bars
and rib reinforcement angles, and 2) riveting reinforcement angles to
the rib face (always) and the rib flange (never). Also, spreader bars
will be riveted to the spar, reinforcement angles will be bolted to the
spar.
PatK - RV-6A - Left leading edge on and getting ready for main skins.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)ltec.net> |
| Subject: | Re: propellers & altitude???? |
>Props are the transmissions of our aircraft and you must choose the right
>"gear" for the flight profile that you typically fly. If you live in the
>west and operate from high altitude airports, and assuming you have a 160 hp
>engine, you might think about installing a 68 X 68 (low gear) prop which
>will turn up above 3000 RPM @ SL but will give you good take-off and climb at
>high altitude airports. At 8000' I would expect it to turn about 2850 RPM
>and at 12,500' about 2700 RPM.
>
>Anybody out there got a 68 X 68 that can confirm/dispute the above.
>
>Gary Corde
>RV-6 N211GC
Complicating things is inability to compare props from different
manufacturers or even with the same prop maker. A local RV-6A pilot has had
three props from a well known prop maker, all the sam diameter and pitch
with a wide variation in performance. I think this is typical of custom
made props. I'd think that there would be more consistancy from prop to
prop in the Sensenich FP metal line.
Speaking of Sensenich. Does anyone know how they're coming with the FP
for the 180 Lycoming? Hopefully, this prop will not have a redline lower
than the engine redline.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
| Subject: | "INFOBOT" provides Aviation Related Sales Lists |
Here's a way to get info about interesting subjects to the
RV-LISTERS!:
*DIRECTORY OF FREE INFO BY AUTO-RESPONSE E-MAIL*
Send email to infobot(at)pdsig.com for your email list- a copy of what's
available for sale of interest in Aviation, General, Homebuilt,
Commercial and Military ! Planes, parts, radios, instruments, etc,
etc Use the list to follow your interests by email.
Quickly, quietly, non-intrusively, you can get information about any
items listed by simply sending a message to those EMAIL addresses on
our FTP server. No information is required in the subject line or the
body of the message. The text file will simply be returned to you by
email for your review. You can act on the info or just file it away in
an e-mail folder marked "INFO" and you'll have it as long as you wish
to keep it! (And it's all FREE!)
Remember it's mail to: infobot(at)pdsig.com
not to me!
bj nash
Telephone Payment Clearings, Inc
Phone: 619 749 7049
Fax: 619 749 6384
BBS: 619 749 2741
Info-file: telpay(at)pdsig.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RVs on floats... |
>Howdy Listers!
> I recall seeing a small blurb on a guy in Canada who had put his
>RV-6 on a pair of custom floats, and as I recall was planning to offer them
>as a kit. I also recall having seen a snapshot of this in a collage-type
>page in Vans' brochure.
There is a picture of this plane on the cover of the 16 Years of the RV-Ator
book. The plane was built by Eustace Bowhay of Copper Island Aviation of
Blind Bay, BC, Canada.
Yes, I understand that he does sell kits for his RV-6 float plane adaptation.
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Nut Plates & Taps |
I sure hope all you people who are having problems with nutplates being
too tight are using the proper screwdriver. There are two different
styles of so-called "phillips-head" screwdrivers, and if you aren't
using one that fits the screw properly, or are using a worn-out one, it
makes quite a bit of difference.... I mention this only because I
haven't had much problem with the nut plates -- yes they can be hard to
get screws in and out of the first time or two, but I've never found it
necessary to take extraordinary measures like some people seem to be
doing.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
Editor, Home Wing Newsletter
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bill garrett <bgarrett(at)fast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spreader angle clarification |
>Return-Path:
>Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
>Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 10:36:21 -0700
>From: Patrick Kelley <mail.ic.net!patk(at)matronics.com>
>Organization: Flion Software
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Question on riveting spreader angles to ribs in -6 wing
>Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>bill garrett wrote:
>> Various spreader angle comments for Stephen Heinlein.
>
>I'm a little concerned by the wording on the replies (not just yours,
>Bill) about this question. First of all, there are spreader angles at a
>few stations (like the one where the tiedown bracket is attached. These
>are not attached to any rib at all, and are 7 5/8" long, as I recall.
All of my information came from my full-sized 64-sheet set of plans
(#22641;RV6-A) and by actual measurement (sheet #20; tiedown detail) the
spreader angle at this location also is 7 inches. Since the spar is only 7
3/4" wide (outside dimensions) and the spar strip holes are 6 1/8" on
center, I still believe 7" is the correct length for all of the spreader
angles and would be too long for any that mount directly to the spar web (as
the one that attaches the tiedown does).
>Then there are the angle pieces used to attach the ribs modified to
>clear the spar strips. These are ALL riveted to the face of the rib, no
>exceptions.
I wrote (and I agree, not too clearly!):
The 8 main ribs closest to the wing root are the only ones that have
spreader angles riveted to them (and then bolted and pop riveted eventually
to the spar strips) along with the five innermost nose ribs for the leading
edge skin.
The above paragraph should have more clearly said that the spreader angles
are riveted to the face of the ribs and the ribs are pop riveted to the spar
web and the angles bolted to the spar strips. Thanks for having me look
again at what I wrote.
>DON'T use the preview plans, DO use the full size plans to see
>the locations of all the angle pieces (one of the two general spar
>drawings shows the locations in top-down view).
I don't have and have never seen preview plans. I cited the sheet #'s of
the full size plans from which I got the information.
>This is just to clarify riveting reinforcement angles to the rib face (always)
NOT TRUE! This was my main concern regarding the original questioner! My
impression was that he believed the ooutermost reinforcement angles were to
be mounted to the ribs. The last 5 outboard spreader angles that are
mounted on the same side as the main ribs are not attached to any ribs at all.
>and the rib flange (never).
AGREED!
>Also, spreader bars will be riveted to the spar, reinforcement angles will
be bolted to >the spar.
NOT ALWAYS! Again, all 5 of the most outboard spreader angles within the
spar channel are attached with rivets only to the spar channel (even the
tiedown one; the tiedown is what is bolted to the spar).
Hope this clarifies what I tried to post earlier.
Best wishes,
Bill
Bill Garrett Barb Garrett
RV-6A airplane builder Quilter and Quilt Historian
bgarrett(at)fast.net Pottstown, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel springs |
I leave a little slack so that I get full rudder travel.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild Arm Rest Question |
On Tue, 20 Aug 1996, Gil Alexander wrote:
> I have a question here .....
>
> My plans (sheet 31, section H-H ) do not show any parts/brackets or
> rivets at the front end of the F-620 armrest. So, with reference to the
> comment above .... Is this a later change? ... has something been added on
> the QuickBuild fuselages only? ... and do the QB fuselages follow the basic
> set of -6 plans (with added sheets)? ... or do they have their own set of
> plans?
>
> .... Enquiring kit builders want to know .....
>
>
> .... Gil (are my plans different?) Alexander
Gil,
The RV-6Q plans are the same as the RV-6 plans, with a few additional
sheets for the Quickbuild-unique stuff, and many sheets deleted for the
stuff that's already been built by the factory. The quickbuild unique
stuff that I've encountered so far (100 hrs or so of actual building
time) has been only the forming blocks for the arm rest and the aft
bulkhead. I believe there's a wing rib and a couple of rudder ribs that
also have to be hand formed.
Regarding the brackets at the front and rear of the arm rest: The factory
built arm rest has two AN470AD4 rivets at the front, and four of them at
the rear. These rivets go thru the arm rest into angle
aluminum which is then riveted to the frame of the A/C (not to the skin).
I didn't find this feature in the plans, but it's built that way on the
factory arm rest and the Orndorf video (which comes with the RV-6Q)
explicitly shows the brackets. So, I just grabbed some scrap aluminum,
made the angle, and shaved it down until it fit. It stiffens the arm up A
LOT versus how it flexed before I put the brackets in.
By the way, the front bracket is riveted to the frame with a couple of pop
rivets. The rear bracket is attached with AN470AD4 rivets.
470 rivet 470 rivet
__T_____________arm rest__(front >)________________T_
--|--- --|--
470 | |
rivet --| pop rivet |--
| |
bracket bracket
Capt Tim Lewis
Kelly AFB, TX 210-442-4237
lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil or capntim(at)aol.com
COML ASEL IA
RV-6AQ #60023
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | New Archive Utility & CDROM... |
Hello everyone,
- All New Windows Archive Search Utility -
I'm working on an all new Windows search utility for the RV and Zenith List
archive files. It is written in Visual C++, and has some powerful new
features and capabilities. While it's not complete yet, what I have so far
is working well and makes finding information in the archive quite easy.
Complex searchs are acceptably fast, especially considering the current size
of the archive file ( RV-List >18Mb! ).
Here's the question. There are some features that are only available when
programming for Windows 95 and NT targets that I would like to use. They
are *not* available in the Win32 implimentation for Windows 3.1 either.
If I released this program as a Windows 95/NT distribution only, how many
Windows users on the List would be unabled to use it or not able to upgrade
to Windows 95?
- RV-List and Zenith-List Archive CDROM! -
I am also planning to release an RV-List/Zenith-List Archive CDROM disk soon
that will contain the all of the various forms of the Archives (zip, Z, txt,
digest, digest-vol, etc.) as well as my new Windows search engine. Also
included on the CDROM will be other files of interest to Lister's such as the
FAQs, the latest version of Frank Justice's manual (if he is willing), and
any other data or documentation people might want (suggestions are welcome
and requested).
Proceeds from the CDROM sales will go to directly support the continued
operation of the RV and Zenith email lists. I am thinking about charging
$39 + shipping for a single CD, and also offering a years 'subscription' for
$99 + shipping (3 CDs - 1 every four months). Of course Visa and M/C would
be accepted as well as personal checks.
Would people be interested in this? I will have to sell about 30 CDs to
break even on the hardware/setup costs. Having a permanent copy of the
Archives that don't have to be stored on your local harddrive seems like a
'must-have' for just about any builder! I bet they'd make great gifts... :-)
Any and all input is welcome!
Thanks,
Matt Dralle
RV/Zenith-List Admin
Matronics
dralle(at)matronics.com
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sheinlein(at)VNET.IBM.COM |
| Subject: | More info on riveting spreader angles to ribs in -6 wing |
Thanks much to Patrick, Bill, and Mark who have responded (so far)
to my question on this!!!
I think I am getting a little clearer on this, so let me review with
you and perhaps you can tell me if I'm wrong...
--------------------------------
1. There are "spreader angles", which are NOT attached to ribs and
there are "rib reinforcing angles", which ARE attached to ribs.
I believe, after much studying of the plans, I know where each
of these goes and how it is attached to the spar.
2. I hadn't considered the fact that the pop rivets attaching the
rib flange to the spar might interfere with the "reinforcing angles".
I will look out for this. I am contemplating a slightly different
procedure for attaching ribs and angles at the tip end, which I
believe should eliminate this problem. What do you think of it?
It goes as follows:
- Use regular rivets to attach rib flanges (main and leading edge)
to spar.
- Attach the angle to the spar (inside rib flange).
- Rivet (again, with regular rivets) the angle to the rib.
This is a little out of order of what it appears most people do,
but I can't find a problem with it. It eliminates the pop rivets
and I'm guessing that it will therefore eliminate the problem
with the rivet head interfering with the reinforcing angle inside
August 12, 1996 - August 21, 1996
RV-Archive.digest.vol-bt