RV-Archive.digest.vol-bv
September 01, 1996 - September 08, 1996
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BB9808.28CE7540--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: new non-certified Lycomings |
>Someone at "the" fly-in(Van's) was telling me he spoke with a Lycoming
>rep at Oshkosh about how Superior was going to start producing engine
>casings and everything necessary to assemble a non-certified O-320/360
>from parts at supposedly a far less price than the certified assembled
>one. Is there any truth to this? He thought delivery might be late fall
>96 or spring 97. Hey, just thought I might need more to do plus a chance
>buy more tools!! Remember those ads for Jeeps packed in crates for $50?
Kevin, Several years ago, I remember reading in SA that Superior was
working on both the O-200 and the O-320. Never heard anything more about
it. I talked to Superior at S&F and the representative said they were
concentrating on development of a Lycoming O-360 but he no idea when the
project would be completed.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: deburring dimples? |
> the Standard Aircraft book which Van's sells over the counter states on
> page 54 " Deburring shall not be performed on predrilled holes that are
> to be subsequently form countersunk." The next paragraph defines form
> countersunk as dimpled.
Hmm. You sure? I know from experience if you forget to clean up the
holes before you dimple, the rivet doesn't sit right.
-J
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
14190 47th Ave N.
Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
Bill,
Fred was not attempting to land, he was initiating a high speed pass.
Rick McBride
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jorear(at)mrnet.com |
| Subject: | deburring dimples? |
Hello to all RVListers!
I have a question pertaining to low time pilots and the RV 6A. I plan
to begin flight training either this fall or next spring. Also plan to
begin construction of an RV 6A in about a year and a half. What do you
RV 6A drivers feel in regards to a low time pilot being able to handle
this plane? I plan on taking about 3-4 years to complete my project due
to work and family committments. During that time, I hope to accumulate
as many hours as possible. I just don't want to "bite off more than I
can (or should) chew." The actual construction doesn't bother me, as I
have been an RC model builder/pilot for many years. So what do you
think? Your comments will be most appreciated. Thanks!
Jeff Orear
doing alot of hangar flying
Jorear(at)mrnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rudy.Albachten(at)amd.com (Rudy Albachten) |
| Subject: | OOPS... Forgot the RTV on the left elevator |
Well I finished my left elevator (w/electric trim)
then suddenly realized i forgot to add the silicone
at the trailing edge (D*mn D*mn D*mn :^( )
I know there were many RV's built before this was
recommended procedure, but I thought I'd seek some
net-wisdom. As I see it my choices are:
1) Do nothing. I can stop drill any cracks if they
occur. If I'm lucky there won't be any. (The
stiffeners go very close to the trailing edge.)
2) Drill a small hole and spray in some expanding
foam. I talked with a builder who built his plane
before the cracking problem, and he did this to his
so he didn't need to worry about it. (The builder was
either Bob Avery on his RV-4 or Martin Sutter on his
RV-6. Martin's plane is incredible, and Bob's will
be by the time he finishes it.)
3) Drill out enough rivets to lift the skin and add some
silicone globs. I'm very good at drilling out rivets
(too many years in a metal shop, I haven't screwed up
that many rivets), but this would be a lot of rivets.
I'm leaning toward #1, I can always do #2 or #3 later.
Anyone have any opinions?
By the way the elevator came out great. I decided to do
the left first and get it over with, now I am almost
done with the right elevator. Almost time to start
priming the wing spars!
- Rudy Albachten
rudy(at)io.com
(Finishing empennage after 7 months)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | RV6A Temporary Wood Wing Spar For Gear - Need Advice |
I am building an RV6A fuselage and am working on the 604 bulkhead that
contains the wing spar. I have the following questions:
1.) Can you take a piece of hardwood and shape it like a spar to place in
the 604 wing spar bulkhead for the initial bulkhead mounting (drilling all
the matching holes into the wood like the real spar).
*** (The reason I ask is because Vans pictures show some small pieces of
metal wedged only at the very ends of the 604C.)
2.) Do RV6A builders generally and eventually remount their gear to a fake
wood spar so that they can have their plane on the gear in the workshop
(assuming their wings would not fit in their workshop). Or do they just put
it on a cradle ?
3.) How realistic is it to take an RV6A totally completed with engine,
radios, battery, interior, etc and take the fake wing spar out to be
replaced with the wings at the airport. If I put saw horses underneath the
fuselage, would that weight ruin the outside of my fuselage skin while I was
attempting to put the real spar and wings in ?
Any advice is greatly appreciated ...
Current Project Status:
Wings and Tail entirely completed, spray painted with Acrylic Laquer, and
looking very nice ( after much sanding and buffing! Teenagers are great for
somethings! Project photos are at:
http://www.mcs.net/~rvgasj/rv6a.html
.... Scott in Chicago
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 6A Tip-up canopy questions |
As I begin the fitting process for the tip-up canopy, it looks as if I will
have to situate the front of the frame quite a bit higher than the 1/8-3/16
in specified in the instructions. Like about 5/8 in. or better above the
side rails, to get the skins to line up on top. I believe my sub-panel
(F-688) is correctly notched and situated on the longerons, so I'm not sure
how this happened. I know if I call Van's on Tuesday I will likely get the
standard "you're the manufacturer, just build it to fit" routine. Any other
opinions out there?
I could shim the frame on top (maybe with glass mat and resin?) before
drilling on and installing the forward canopy skin. I see there is some
glass work to be done on the underside of the canopy frame anyway...
Am I likely to have trouble if my canopy frame sides sit a bit high?? I
don't get warm fuzzies when things start to drift away from the plan
dimensions. Errors have a way of compounding into problems.
Bill Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Torque Values |
>
>All you builders asking such basic questions as this, please save us all
some
>bandwidth in posting/reposting this stuff and buy a copy of the bible of
>aircraft maintenance, AC 43.13-1A (includes AC 43.13-2A) for $14 (cheap)
from
>Averys. For their phone number refer to the RV builders' Yeller Pages.
This
>manual has much of what you need to know in the way of construction methods
>and systems requirements so that you can build and maintain a safe bird.
>
>Yes, we're amateurs (we do it for the love of it) but we don't have to be
>ill-informed. Once you have some of the knowledge contained in this manual,
>and the Tony Bingelis books, packed away in your gray matter along with your
>own good sense and some critical thinking skills, you can amaze and impress
>your friends, just as the more knowledgable "RV gods" on this list. You can
>impress them further by building a safe airplane.
>
>I now relinquish the soap box,
Down boy.
I'm a new builder who only recently (through reading the archives) found out
about the AC. Don't get riled up--just take the time to point us new guys
the right direction. That's what the list is for. No one is born knowing
about AC 43.13.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: OOPS... Forgot the RTV on the left elevator |
2) Drill a small hole and spray in some expanding
> foam. I talked with a builder who built his plane
> before the cracking problem, and he did this to his
> so he didn't need to worry about it. (The builder was
> either Bob Avery on his RV-4 or Martin Sutter on his
> RV-6. Martin's plane is incredible, and Bob's will
> be by the time he finishes it.)
>
Rudy; Martin Sutter told me that he did this after his plane was completed.
I am fairly sure that he said that he did so by going in through the spar of
the elevator, using a tube to get the stuff to the back of the elev. Don't
know if he 'opened' the curved over skin or went in through the two holes
for the rod end bearings.
Hope this helps.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Temporary Wood Wing Spar For Gear - Need |
Advice
Scott; Mine is a 6, and I used some metal that came with the kit(not on the
parts list, but included) for the dimensions of the gap when assembling.
That might be a little different than what you are asking.
As for the fus. on saw horse etc., I kept mine on a saw horse under the
firewall bulkhead most of the construction and yes, after the engine was
mounted, seemed to take it ok.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <74774.54(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: OOPS... Forgot the RTV on the left elevator |
IMHO I would leave it as is... If it cracks you can stop drill it or at worse
case replace the whole elevator later.
Based on my limited experience, trying your steps #2 or #3 will almost certainly
guarantee you will have to build another elevator.
good luck
Rick 74774.54(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BestBillO(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid devices wingleveler |
The company told me in May that they are working on an "altitude hole" which
will be compatible as an add-on to the wing leveler. I hope they're
successful. Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bill garrett <bgarrett(at)fast.net> |
| Subject: | OOPS... Forgot the RTV on the left elevator |
Rudy,
You wrote:
>Well I finished my left elevator (w/electric trim)
>then suddenly realized i forgot to add the silicone
>at the trailing edge (D*mn D*mn D*mn :^( )
I did exactly the same thing! Asked Van himself at the RV Forum at
Frederick and he said not to worry about it at all; he said it was only a
precaution and that the cracks were far from a universal problem.
>2) Drill a small hole and spray in some expanding
> foam.
I think this is one of the things they tried at the factory and found that
the foam did not adhere well to the alclad when they took it apart to check
the effectiveness. This was written up in an RVator some time back.
>3) Drill out enough rivets to lift the skin and add some
> silicone globs. I'm very good at drilling out rivets
> (too many years in a metal shop, I haven't screwed up
> that many rivets), but this would be a lot of rivets.
Sounds like a lot of work! And I'm not sure how you would get it in the
right places with appropriate "drain lines" along the trailing edge.
Actually, after reading some of the recent posts regarding the possibility
of accumulating water, dirt, etc. in the trailing edges because of the RTV,
I wish I hadn't put any in mine at all. After doing more construction, I
think at this point building a new set of elevators if the originals cracked
badly wouldn't be such a big deal anymore.
Best wishes,
Bill
Bill Garrett Barb Garrett
RV-6A airplane builder Quilter and Quilt Historian
bgarrett(at)fast.net Pottstown, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
We know you don't know it all, none of us do, least of all me. That's why we
are all builders; in order to learn by doing. Learning always involves
study, research and work. We all want this list to be a good source of
information. However, the list is probably not the best medium for conveying
all the little detail stuff that is generic in nature. It is often
appropriate to defer to other more complete references so that the
information can be presented in context with other related principles.
The only observation I was offering was that for the umpteenth time a new
builder (yes I know you are a unique individual and cannot be held
responsible for all the others) had jumped onto the the list asking such
basic questions that one is given to wonder if they bought their RV kit from
the home shopping channel.
The list is capable of metaphorically tossing you a fish everytime you feel
hunger pangs, but teaching you to fish is what I believe our role here is.
My post merely suggested that you go buy a book on fishing. Perhaps I
should have included the ubiquitous emoticons ;^) to let the more sensitive
among you know that my tirade was somewhat in fun, (it's called tough love)
but I think the rest of the gang got it.
I make a presumption (which I don't think unreasonable) that the people on
this list (1) are reasonably well educated, (2) are moderately successful,
(3) are good with tools, (4) are EAA members, (5) read the more popular
homebuilder's magazines, (6) have researched the kit aviation market and
selected a build media, (7) have planned in order to set aside the requisite
time to build and (8) have selected one of the RV series kits because of
their outstanding value.
My point here is that if you are here on the list and building an RV, you
already know a great deal. But you need to acquaint yourself with some of
the 100 years of aviation experience that is available in the various
publications available from and thru the EAA. We can't possibly teach you,
via the list, all you need to know about how to build a safe plane. You have
a responsibility to get the basic info from books (thanx FAA, EAA and Tony
Bingelis) and the Orndorff videos help too (thanx George and Becki).
I hereby declare a truce,
Gary VanRemortel
Vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: circuit breakers |
> One of his ideas that I think has merit
>is the use of blade type fuses in a fuse block.
I though about this. In fact discussed it with a good friend who has
built/rebuilt several aircraft.
In the end, I decided to go with conventional circuit breakers, for a
couple of reasons:
1. There are two items installed in my RV-6 (autopilot and electrim
elevator trim) that absolotely must have a way to disconnect them from
electrical power (turn them off) quickly. Popping the breaker is the best
way I know.
2. There have been times in the past when I've needed to do a little
electrical trouble-shooting in flight, shutting down individual items. A
circuit breaker panel is ideal for that.
Even at Aircraft Sruce prices, all the breakers for my entire airplane cost
less than $200.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
finishing kit on order
fuselage out of the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: circuit breakers |
Rvav8er(at)aol.com asked:
>Can anyone advise me regarding circuit breakers for an RV-6.
What a coincidence. I'm in the process of doing some of the wiriing in my
fuselage and laying out the panel. Here's what I have planned:
Toggle swtich/Breakers:
Landing Light -- 10 amp
Nav Lights -- 5 amp
Strobes -- 10 amps
Pitot Heat -- 7.5 amps
Breakers:
Com/GPS -- 7.5 amps
Transponder -- 3 amps
VM1000 -- 5 amps
Clock/G-meter/fuel guage -- 2 amps
Navaid Devices Autopilit -- 5 amps
Intercom/sterio -- 5 amps
Flap motor -- 5 amp
elec elevator trim -- 2 amp
uEncoder -- 1 amp
Instrument lights -- ??
And yes, Klixon breakers are just fine.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
finishing kit on order
fuselage out of the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Moore <bobmoore(at)mail.wwd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid devices wingleveler |
aol.com!BestBillO(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> The company told me in May that they are working on an "altitude hole"
Is this something similar to an "air pocket"?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: OOPS... Forgot the RTV on the left elevator |
>
>Well I finished my left elevator (w/electric trim)
>then suddenly realized i forgot to add the silicone
>at the trailing edge (D*mn D*mn D*mn :^( )
>
>I know there were many RV's built before this was
>recommended procedure, but I thought I'd seek some
>net-wisdom. As I see it my choices are:
>
>1) Do nothing. I can stop drill any cracks if they
> occur. If I'm lucky there won't be any. (The
> stiffeners go very close to the trailing edge.)
>
>I'm leaning toward #1, I can always do #2 or #3 later.
>Anyone have any opinions?
>
>By the way the elevator came out great. I decided to do
>the left first and get it over with, now I am almost
>done with the right elevator. Almost time to start
>priming the wing spars!
>
> - Rudy Albachten
> rudy(at)io.com
> (Finishing empennage after 7 months)
>
>
Number one is the way to go. Many many RV's are flying with no RTV in the
trailing edge (mine included) and most do not have cracks. My opinion is
that cracks are more likely to form if you use a 180 HP engine and do a lot
of aerobatics.
Even then, I've seen -4's that hardly ever fly straight and level that have
never had any cracking problems.
I think you'd be more likely to cause a problem by drilling out that many
rivets than by not having RTV in your trailing edge.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
| Subject: | Temporary Wood Wing Spar |
1.) Can you take a piece of hardwood and shape it like a spar to place =
in
the 604 wing spar bulkhead for the initial bulkhead mounting (drilling =
all
the matching holes into the wood like the real spar).
2.) Do RV6A builders generally and eventually remount their gear to a =
fake
wood spar so that they can have their plane on the gear in the workshop.
3.) How realistic is it to take an RV6A totally completed with engine,
radios, battery, interior, etc and take the fake wing spar out to be
replaced with the wings at the airport. If I put saw horses underneath =
the
fuselage, would that weight ruin the outside of my fuselage skin while I =
was
attempting to put the real spar and wings in ?
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Scott,
On my friends plane we did all of the above and I worked out well for =
us. Yes, complete 1 & 2 just as you stated. Be sure to install enough of =
the gear leg bolts to prevent flexing of the socket/bracket.
This is how we accomplished number 3. In order to get the fake spar out =
and install the wings, we found it necessary to remove the a/c weight =
from the main gear. We did this by placing a saw horse at the firewall =
bulkhead and a second at the tailcone bulkhead. I do not advise using =
flimsy sawhorses. The total weight of the a/c will be on these =
sawhorses. We used pillows and pads for protection. The weight at these =
points is not a problem (1g). Insert both wings, no bolts yet. Then =
install all the landing gear bolts starting from the outside working =
towards the center. Someone will have to pull or push on the landing =
gear to help line up the holes. Most of the bolts for the landing gear =
will have to go in from the rear. Use a bullet line up tool. Bullet =
definition: a bolt with the head cut off and one end ground and smoothly =
tapered to a point. After you have the landing gear bolts in, insert the =
wing spar bolts starting from the ousde working towards the center. By =
doing it this way you can wiggle the wing to help line up the holes.
Hope this helps. It took us three days to get all the bolts in and =
tightened up. Call me a slow learner if you like.
Greg Bordelon.
greg(at)brokersys.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
| Subject: | Torqued Value ??? |
(This is GV on soapbox)
All you builders asking such basic questions as this, please save us all =
some bandwidth in posting/reposting this stuff and buy a copy of the =
bible of aircraft maintenance, AC 43.13-1A (includes AC 43.13-2A) for =
$14 (cheap) from Averys. For their phone number refer to the RV =
builders' Yeller Pages. This manual has much of what you need to know =
in the way of construction methods and systems requirements so that you =
can build and maintain a safe bird. =20
Yes, we're amateurs (we do it for the love of it) but we don't have to =
be ill-informed. Once you have some of the knowledge contained in this =
manual, and the Tony Bingelis books, packed away in your gray matter =
along with your own good sense and some critical thinking skills, you =
can amaze and impress your friends, just as the more knowledgable "RV =
gods" on this list. You can impress them further by building a safe =
airplane.
I now relinquish the soap box,
-GV
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Sorry guys but I aggree with this one. I 've been on the list for a year =
now and have seen this same question asked at least half a dozen times. =
It just goes round and round and after a while it gets boring. Read the =
FAQ, use the search engines, most of the basic stuff is pretty well =
hammer to death in there.=20
Please instead of asking questions all the time. Share some of your =
ideas, your successsful accomplishments including your failures. We =
learn from stuff like that. That is what this list is all about. =
Learning by sharing information..................
Greg Bordelon - not bitching, not a newbie, not an old timer.
greg(at)brokersys.com =20
ps. everyone, Please sign your posts and add your E-mail address. =
Thanks.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A Tip-up canopy questions |
>As I begin the fitting process for the tip-up canopy, it looks as if I will
>have to situate the front of the frame quite a bit higher than the 1/8-3/16
>in specified in the instructions. Like about 5/8 in. or better above the
>side rails, to get the skins to line up on top. I believe my sub-panel
>(F-688) is correctly notched and situated on the longerons, so I'm not sure
>how this happened. I know if I call Van's on Tuesday I will likely get the
>standard "you're the manufacturer, just build it to fit" routine. Any other
>opinions out there?
>
>I could shim the frame on top (maybe with glass mat and resin?) before
>drilling on and installing the forward canopy skin. I see there is some
>glass work to be done on the underside of the canopy frame anyway...
>
>Am I likely to have trouble if my canopy frame sides sit a bit high?? I
>don't get warm fuzzies when things start to drift away from the plan
>dimensions. Errors have a way of compounding into problems.
>
>Bill Boyd
Bill, Build to fit is probably as good advice as your going to get. I
believe you're talking about the distance between the fuselage side rail and
the side canopy frame being 5/8". You may not have enough material for the
canopy side skins to reach the fuselage. When I built my tilt-up, I decided
that I wanted my canopy side skins to extend past the fuselage side rail,
both for looks and for sealing out cold weather. I also felt that it would
provide a "fudge factor" as it seemed that getting the canopy sides to match
up perfectly with the fuselage sides would be more luck than anything else.
With the canopy side skins lapping over the side of the fuselage, if the
canopy side skins stuck out too far, they could be bent back in to lessen
the gap and if clearance was too tight or the canopy side skin hit on the
top of the fuse. side rails, the side skin could be bent out a bit. The way
my canopy is made, the side skins and the forward canopy skin bottoms line
up with the bottom of the forward and aft fuselage skins. I ordered some
.032" from KC Airparts so I could make new, deeper side skins and also the
forward canopy skin. I knew I'd need more material for the side skins and
the forward skin (as recieved from the factory) looked like it might be a
little short of material (as the elevator skins are for a lot of RVs). I
wish Van's would give us just a 1/4" more material sometimes. It's easier
to file material off than it is to stretch it.
I hope the above is helpful to you. The canopy is probably the most
challenging part of building a RV-6. There's a lot of "moving parts" and it
seems like every time you look at the canopy throug the building process
that something changes or looks different. It's also hard to describe
building the canopy via paper. If I didn't explain adequately, feel free to
call me at 308-324-4437.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cecil Hatfield / Fourstar Printing <cecil(at)alto1.altonet.com> |
About the bird strike,
I just got back from Van's fly-in about four hours ago. I talked to
Fred as did many of us. He was showing photos of the remains (complete with
the "Gizzard" laying on the fus inside the canopy at the rear.) He said it
was a 200 MPH pass low level. He also said it is the last low level pass he
will ever do. He said one of the first things he did was feel the top of his
head where the head set use to be, to try and find out how much damage to
his head had taken place.(none it turned out)
Fred was a lucky guy, if the bird had been, say, a sea gull, the ending
would not have been so good. Freds skills and remembering to fly the plane
first saved the day. Fred only had a little scratch on his left cheek.
Fred said the lessons to learn here ore at least these two.
1. No high speed passes down where the birds do their high speed
passes.
2. Have a pair of glasses or better yet somewhere in the plane you
can reach to help with the air blast if you are ever unlucky enough to have
a broken canopie.
I understand that we had about 105 RV there according to Bill B. (Iforget
how to correctly spell his name. And don't want to look it up.)
The RV 8 parts were in the R & D hangar next to Van's home. Boy the major
changes in the wing spars. Would you believe each wing spar has only 4
pieces except for the rivets? Would you believe, each spar only goes about
four inches into the fuselage. Both spars will always be finished looking
golden when you get them. (you don't get to build your own).
Bill took a few of us through the factory on Sunday and told a story that
goes somthing like this.
In the shop they had a worker that built the crates for shipping. And as the
orders kept building bigger and bigger this fellow could not keep up. A
fellow that lived across the street came looking for a job saying he new
woodworking and that the state of Oregon taught him his woodworking skills.
Bill had large doubts as anyone would have, but decided to give him a chance
helping put the packing boxes togeather. Before long the 'regular' guy
wasn't working there anymore. I forget the reason Bill gave. Any way the
point to the story is that the 'new guy' from across the street has the job
to his self now and does the whole job each day in a half days time.
THIS NEW FELLOW HAS BEEN BLIND SINCE BIRTH
I for one, congratulate Van's Aircraft for giving the man a chance.
-------------------------------------
Cecil Hatfield
cecil@altonet
RV-6A (wings)
Date: 09/02/96
Time: 12:18:17
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael A. Pilla" <pilla(at)exit109.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wheel landings |
I test flew a fellow's RV-6 for him and experimented with a modified
wheel landing technique. After the weekend test flying, I called Van's
and found that a few of them do the same thing.
"Fly" the plane onto the runway in a three point attitude, then lift
the tail slightly; i.e, don't try to touch on only the main(s) - you
might bounce and then push just as the nose comes down, ...
As a CFI who is required by the FARs to provide wheel landing checkouts,
I have found that the most common reasons for a botched wheel landing are
1) excessive vertical rate of sink and/or 2) too late and/or too aggressive
a push on the stick.
A trick I have used is to ask the student to add a couple of hundred RPM
to the engine just as you do the slight flare (to reduce the rate of sink)
and I also ask them to trim for an approach speed that is about 5 knots
faster than the "desired" approach speed. Hand fly the correct speed and,
as the main(s) touch, just *relax* the back pressure you have been holding;
the elevator still has enough authority to lift the tail just about the
right amount. Then, just maintain the attitude.
If a wheel landing attempt does go awry, don't try to salvage by pushing/
pulling; you'll get out of phase and make things worse. I've seen some
pretty badly bent birds after a session of push/pull when it should have
been pull/push.
If you think about it, the bounce indicates the higher rate of sink and
too fast an approach. So, the nose bounces up and is probably just at
the right attitude to convert to a "three point" landing. I.e., instead
of pushing, just "pull" a little and hold the attitude until the bird
settles nicely to the runway. Fine point, if the bounce is higher than
a few feet, add a few hundred RPM to reduce the rate of sink. The nose
high attitude, along with the slightly increased thrust, will help keep
the nose from falling harder, ...
But, again, back to -6 (and -4), try the "fly it on" and then "raise the
tail" approach. I was quite pleasantly surprised to see how well it works.
The reason, IMHO, it seems to work is because the three point attitude is,
as we all know, *not* the stall attitude.
Have fun. You might want to get an *experienced* CFI to work with you, but
try to find one with -6 or -4 time; the birds are different. I.e., find a
CFI who has had lots of different kinds of TD time ... E.g., I've wheel
landed a T-6G using some of the same techniques described above...
Mike Pilla
pilla(at)exit109.com
(908) 566-7604
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cecil Hatfield / Fourstar Printing <cecil(at)alto1.altonet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid devices wingleveler |
aol.com!BestBillO(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> The company told me in May that they are working on an
"altitude hole"
Is this something similar to an "air pocket"?
When I called them to clearify they said it was sort of a lazer
beam designed to creat a 5 foot puff of smoke a half mile in
front of the nose of the aircraft. At present they have it
behind the prop and it makes a dotted line about a half mile
out. All you do is follow the dotted line.
-------------------------------------
Cecil Hatfield
cecil@altonet
RV-6A (wings)
Date: 09/02/96
Time: 13:05:01
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 6A Tip-up canopy questions |
Bob S.:
thanks for taking the time to answer my canopy question. After going ahead
and building to fit, I have come to exactly the same conclusion about the
side skins. If they are to overlap, which may be better for all the reasons
you cited, they will certainly have to be larger. ("I don't understand-I've
cut them three times and they're STILL too short!") My plan is to procede
with the fun of drilling the gooseneck hinge blocks and fitting the latching
and jettison mechanisms while brooding over the side skin question: to butt
or not to butt; whether tis better to overlap and risk scuffing the sides of
my beautiful plane each time I close the lid... I'll decide later, after I
hear some list-wisdom.
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)AOL.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)Op.Net> |
| Subject: | LifeSaving Invention |
An "altitude hole" is that column of clear airspace you search for when you
are stuck "VFR on top." It is usually hard to find, but I'm glad Navaid is
working on a device for finding one. It will save many souls, or at least
keep a lot of shorts clean and dry.
I'm going to leave some space in my panel to install it when it becomes
available. Then I can quit filing those bogus IFR flight plans when caught
above.
Lou Willig
larywil(at)op.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ming Ho <mho(at)post.cis.smu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: circuit breakers |
Hello Dave,
> What a coincidence. I'm in the process of doing some of the wiriing in my
> fuselage and laying out the panel. Here's what I have planned:
>
> Pitot Heat -- 7.5 amps
If you are planning to use AN5812 pitot tube, it requires 10 amp for the
12V and 15 amp for the 24V. AN5814 requires 20 amp for the 12V and
15 amp for the 24V, per Aircraft Spruce catalog.
Kind regards,
Ming
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Future of Aviation Navigation |
Hi Folks,
All of you may be aware of this, but I didn't realize that the
speculation was beginning to get official signatures.
Between the asterisk lines below is a quote from Avflash, the weekly
news flashes I get from Avweb (http://www.avweb.com)
**********************************************************
SATNAV IS HOT, NAVAIDS ARE NOT
FAA Administrator David Hinson has approved a GPS transition plan that
will phase out most current ground-based navigation systems by 2010 and
some even sooner. The agency's plan means the end of Loran-C, Omega,
VOR, DME, ILS, NDB, and marker beacons. Loran-C will be available
until
the year 2000. Support of Omega will be discontinued at the end of
next
year. Augmentation systems to enhance GPS accuracy and integrity are
expected to be in place in five years, the FAA said.
*****************************************************
Thought those of you in the market for panel stuff might be interested
if you don't already know this.
Best regards,
Bill Costello
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 | Reserved N97WC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Torqued Value ??? |
>Please instead of asking questions all the time. Share some of your ideas,
your successsful accomplishments including your failures. We learn from
stuff like that. That is what this list is all about. Learning by sharing
information..................
>
>Greg Bordelon - not bitching, not a newbie, not an old timer.
>greg(at)brokersys.com
>
Greg, this is not directed towards you. I've seen many examples here of
people describing their experiences/failures while building (instead of
questions)...only to be told "hey, we've covered that stuff before".
I think if all of us simply pressed "delete" on what we don't want or
need...and gently point those asking questions (ones we at one time did not
know the answers to ourselves) to places to get the help they need (i.e.
archives, the AC's, Bingelis books, etc.), the list would fair better.
>ps. everyone, Please sign your posts and add your E-mail address. Thanks.)
>
>
Hasn't this been covered a thousand times in the archives somewhere ?
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HowardRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Torqued Value ??? |
Boy my 13 word request that took up so much "bandwidth" got me kicked in the
---. Sorry about that, I'm just a mere mortal who has no idea how to get the
FAQ's or what a search engine is--and thanks to those that replied to my
"e"mail address that I put after my name. I thought that someone could just
reply to me directly so as not to take up so much "bandwith". Now I don't
know if I should ask any more questions to the group or just ask "credible"
sources which will not take up so much "bandwidth".
Just curious, about one thing if you could bear with me a second; a question
was asked about deburring and to quote:
> the Standard Aircraft book which Van's sells over the counter states on
> page 54 " Deburring shall not be performed on predrilled holes that are
> to be subsequently form countersunk." The next paragraph defines form
> countersunk as dimpled.
Is this manual AC43.13-1aA the "bible" that will tell us how to build safer
airplanes?
Over and out (for the count).
Howard Kidwell
howardrv(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
| Subject: | Get Info on Countersinking and Back Riveting |
You can read informative material about this by sending email to
rivets(at)pdsig.com an auto-response email missive will be auto returned
to you. No subject is required nor anything needed in the body of
your message.
(Its too long to post on the list and not everybody would be
interested).
The main directory of aviation related material is infobot(at)pdsig.com
Remember: send to rivets(at)pdsig.com
not to me!
Bill Nash
Telephone Payment Clearings, Inc
Phone: 619 749 7049
Fax: 619 749 6384
BBS: 619 749 2741
Info-file: telpay(at)pdsig.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | teetime(at)flinthills.com |
Howdy everyone,
Another new builder here. My question is about the pro's and con's
of a sliding canopy vs the standard opening type on the RV-4.
Tim
shed ready, tools and empennage in the mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A Tip-up canopy questions |
>Bob S.:
>
>thanks for taking the time to answer my canopy question. After going ahead
>and building to fit, I have come to exactly the same conclusion about the
>side skins. If they are to overlap, which may be better for all the reasons
>you cited, they will certainly have to be larger. ("I don't understand-I've
>cut them three times and they're STILL too short!") My plan is to procede
>with the fun of drilling the gooseneck hinge blocks and fitting the latching
>and jettison mechanisms while brooding over the side skin question: to butt
>or not to butt; whether tis better to overlap and risk scuffing the sides of
>my beautiful plane each time I close the lid... I'll decide later, after I
>hear some list-wisdom.
>
>Bill Boyd
>SportAV8R(at)AOL.com
Bill, You raised some good points. You can reach the decission on whether
to overlap or not later after you see how things stack up. Some tips if you
decide to overlap. I attached some .010" self adhesive UHMW tape on the
bottom of the canopy side skins where it contacts the side of the fuselage.
So far, after just over 300 hours, there has not been much rubbing on the
fuselage side, (due to superior workmanship, no doubt:) or maybe just dumb
luck.) One idea that I had that I didn't use was the possiblility of
masking the fuselage side after painting and putting a couple of passes of
clear urethane on the "rub area". Another thing you'll want to do is put a
"guide" up between the sub-panel and instrument panel that will guide the
corner of the canopy forward skin out from the fuselage a bit so the corner
won't jamb into the fuselage when closing. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Bird Strike (chatter) |
>
>
>Bill took a few of us through the factory on Sunday and told a story that
>goes somthing like this.
>
>In the shop they had a worker that built the crates for shipping. And as the
>orders kept building bigger and bigger this fellow could not keep up. A
>fellow that lived across the street came looking for a job saying he new
>woodworking and that the state of Oregon taught him his woodworking skills.
>Bill had large doubts as anyone would have, but decided to give him a chance
>helping put the packing boxes togeather. Before long the 'regular' guy
>wasn't working there anymore. I forget the reason Bill gave. Any way the
>point to the story is that the 'new guy' from across the street has the job
>to his self now and does the whole job each day in a half days time.
> THIS NEW FELLOW HAS BEEN BLIND SINCE BIRTH
>I for one, congratulate Van's Aircraft for giving the man a chance.
>-------------------------------------
>Cecil Hatfield
>cecil@altonet
>RV-6A (wings)
>
>Date: 09/02/96
>Time: 12:18:17
>
>
If anyone knows the blind guys name I'd really appreciate it if you'd pass
it along. I've got kind of a personal interest in this since my wife also
is blind since birth and is the President of the Washington Council of the
Blind here in Washington state as well as teaches seminars on the rights and
responsibilitys of employers and employees regards the American Disability Act.
She may know the blind fellow since she is also quite active in Oregon blind
'politics'.
TIA
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Torqued Value ??? |
>Boy my 13 word request that took up so much "bandwidth" got me kicked in the
>---. Sorry about that, I'm just a mere mortal who has no idea how to get the
>FAQ's or what a search engine is--and thanks to those that replied to my
>"e"mail address that I put after my name. I thought that someone could just
>reply to me directly so as not to take up so much "bandwith". Now I don't
>know if I should ask any more questions to the group or just ask "credible"
>sources which will not take up so much "bandwidth".
> Just curious, about one thing if you could bear with me a second; a question
>was asked about deburring and to quote:
>
>> the Standard Aircraft book which Van's sells over the counter states on
>> page 54 " Deburring shall not be performed on predrilled holes that are
>> to be subsequently form countersunk." The next paragraph defines form
>> countersunk as dimpled.
> Is this manual AC43.13-1aA the "bible" that will tell us how to build safer
>airplanes?
>
>Over and out (for the count).
>
>Howard Kidwell
>howardrv(at)aol.com
Howard, 43.13 is a good resource. I haven't looked at the FAQs for quite
awhile so don't know if info about the search engine is in there or not.
Probably is. It's a pretty neat deal. Otherwise, forgive some of us if
we're a little short. I think I'm safe in saying that those of us who have
built and are flying our RV's are on this list mainly to help fellow
builders. It's just, somedays are better than others. I know that I wasn't
as warm and friendly as I like to be at S&F when the 100th person came up
and asked me what engine I had in the RV, how fast it goes, where was I
from, etc. It's just that all of this info was on the prop tag and I
couldn't understand why they didn't look at it. Some of the questions on
the list are routine to us but we've got to remember that they are brand new
to the one who's asking. So, post away. I'd rather see you ask a question
that some might consider basic than have you make an un-needed mistake on
your airplane. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Temporary Wood Wing Spar For Gear - Need Advice |
<< 1.) Can you take a piece of hardwood and shape it like a spar to place in
the 604 wing spar bulkhead for the initial bulkhead mounting (drilling all
the matching holes into the wood like the real spar).
*** (The reason I ask is because Vans pictures show some small pieces of
metal wedged only at the very ends of the 604C.)
2.) Do RV6A builders generally and eventually remount their gear to a fake
wood spar so that they can have their plane on the gear in the workshop
(assuming their wings would not fit in their workshop). Or do they just put
it on a cradle ?
3.) How realistic is it to take an RV6A totally completed with engine,
radios, battery, interior, etc and take the fake wing spar out to be
replaced with the wings at the airport. If I put saw horses underneath the
fuselage, would that weight ruin the outside of my fuselage skin while I was
attempting to put the real spar and wings in ?
>>
These are EXCELLENT questions, and ones that aren't covered in the manual.
I'm getting ready to move my 6A to the airport in a condition similar to
that described in #2 with a built-up 2X6 filling the spar cavity.
I saved my fuse jig and built the fuselage on top of it (after taking the
fuse out of the jig and turning it right-side-up) with pads under each of the
cross members. Then I mounted it on the gear. Once the airplane is at the
airport I'll raise it off the gear using the jig to distribute the stress on
the whole airframe, and insert the spar.
My advice is to build the fake spar now, as it was a royal pain to do it
after the fuse was finished.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: OOPS... Forgot the RTV on the left elevator |
<< 1) Do nothing. I can stop drill any cracks if they
occur. If I'm lucky there won't be any. (The
stiffeners go very close to the trailing edge.) >>
I think this would be your best option. A lot of people never had any
problem before this was standard procedure. IMHO, you run the risk of making
a bigger mess if you try to re-do it.
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
My F6111 parts don't seem to come anywhere near close to being the right
shape. As I read the plans for the sliding canopy, the bottom of the F6111
aligns with the top of the F624. It is supposed to lay flush against the
inside of the skin, with the top of the F6111 against th F606 bulkhead.
In this position, there is a gap of about an inch between the skin and the
middle of the F6111.
Has anyone else had this experience?
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
finishing kit on order
fuselage out of the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid devices wingleveler |
>aol.com!BestBillO(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>When I called them to clearify they said it was sort of a lazer
>beam designed to creat a 5 foot puff of smoke a half mile in
Cecil Hatfield
>
Light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation (laser)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Future of Aviation Navigation |
> SATNAV IS HOT, NAVAIDS ARE NOT
> FAA Administrator David Hinson has approved a GPS transition plan that
> will phase out most current ground-based navigation systems by 2010 and
> some even sooner. The agency's plan means the end of Loran-C, Omega,
> VOR, DME, ILS, NDB, and marker beacons. Loran-C will be available until
> the year 2000. Support of Omega will be discontinued at the end of next
> year. Augmentation systems to enhance GPS accuracy and integrity are
> expected to be in place in five years, the FAA said.
Hmm. It'll be interesting to see if they can really phase out the current
crop of high-precision (ILS) approaches that quickly.
-J
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
14190 47th Ave N.
Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Temporary Wood Wing Spar For Gear - Need |
Advice
Scott,
I plan to leave my 6A on its fake gear for as long as possible and hope to
take it out to the airport nearly completed but with wooden spar. I think
that there is plenty of precedence for doing this.
One little thing that caused me distress was that although the spar and the
604 are drilled in assembly the holes are not quite at a normal to the spar
(drill must have wandered a little). This means that if you mark the bolt
holes on one side and drill with your drill press you will find the bolts
out by a mm or so on the other side. I resolved this my marking both sides
of the wooden spar and drilling from both sides then "straightening" the
holes. The whole thing caused me a lot of anxiety but when I fitted the
wings to drill the gear mounts everthing went together very nicely ( a good
feeling).
I think at some point I will fit the gear back on (but still retain the
wooden spar) but am leaving this untill absolutely necessary because the
lower fuselage is very convenient to work on.
These issues are covered by Frank Justive in his instructions. If you don't
have them I thoroughly recomment them (Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.ssd.intel.com).
Cheers,
Leo Davies
6A Fitting rear top skins
leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
>I am building an RV6A fuselage and am working on the 604 bulkhead that
>contains the wing spar. I have the following questions:
>
>1.) Can you take a piece of hardwood and shape it like a spar to place in
>the 604 wing spar bulkhead for the initial bulkhead mounting (drilling all
>the matching holes into the wood like the real spar).
>*** (The reason I ask is because Vans pictures show some small pieces of
>metal wedged only at the very ends of the 604C.)
>
>2.) Do RV6A builders generally and eventually remount their gear to a fake
>wood spar so that they can have their plane on the gear in the workshop
>(assuming their wings would not fit in their workshop). Or do they just put
>it on a cradle ?
>
>3.) How realistic is it to take an RV6A totally completed with engine,
>radios, battery, interior, etc and take the fake wing spar out to be
>replaced with the wings at the airport. If I put saw horses underneath the
>fuselage, would that weight ruin the outside of my fuselage skin while I was
>attempting to put the real spar and wings in ?
>
>Any advice is greatly appreciated ...
>
>
>
>
>Current Project Status:
>
>Wings and Tail entirely completed, spray painted with Acrylic Laquer, and
>looking very nice ( after much sanding and buffing! Teenagers are great for
>somethings! Project photos are at:
>
> http://www.mcs.net/~rvgasj/rv6a.html
>
> .... Scott in Chicago
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 6A Tip-up canopy questions |
(Bob Skinner) writes in reply to Bill Boyd:
<< With the canopy side skins lapping over the side of the fuselage, if the
canopy side skins stuck out too far, they could be bent back in to lessen
the gap and if clearance was too tight or the canopy side skin hit on the
top of the fuse. side rails, the side skin could be bent out a bit. The way
my canopy is made, the side skins and the forward canopy skin bottoms line
up with the bottom of the forward and aft fuselage skins. I ordered some
.032" from KC Airparts so I could make new, deeper side skins and also the
forward canopy skin. >>
Bill, I built my canopy exactly as Bob describes, and it works out very
nicely. An added effort I did, is to "convince" the canopy frame to let the
side skins clear the fuselage side rails by about an eighth of an inch on
each side. Standing inside the fuselage with the side skins clecoed on, put
your foot in strategic places to reform the frame to get the clearances you
want. Cut strips of sticky-back felt (from the hobby shop) and apply to the
skin overhang. I never had any scratches on the fuselage from opening or
closing the canopy.
Jim Stugart
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
writes:
<< I make a presumption (which I don't think unreasonable) that the people on
this list (1) are reasonably well educated, (2) are moderately successful,
(3) are good with tools, (4) are EAA members, (5) read the more popular
homebuilder's magazines, (6) have researched the kit aviation market and
selected a build media, (7) have planned in order to set aside the requisite
time to build and (8) have selected one of the RV series kits because of
their outstanding value. >>
/ WELL SAID, BRAVO!
Jim Stugart
DerFllieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | elon ormsby <ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: new non-certified Lycomings |
>>Someone at "the" fly-in(Van's) was telling me he spoke with a Lycoming
>>rep at Oshkosh about how Superior was going to start producing engine
>>casings and everything necessary to assemble a non-certified O-320/360
>>from parts at supposedly a far less price than the certified assembled
>>one. Is there any truth to this?
-------------------------------------------
I thought Superior's plans were dropped when Henry Boulhey was killed.
Henry was the owner and driving force behind PMA a company that made very
high performance (uncertified) Aircraft engines that set a few records in
his Venture. Henry made all of his own cranks to ensure quality control.
Superior already makes the cylinder assemblies and I thought they were going
to buy cranks and casings from Henry. But with Henry's unfortunate demise
it left Superior without a source for cranks. Or at least they re-thought
the idea of manufacturing an aircraft crank. Never saw the final NTSB report
of the accident but it was speculated that the front of Henry's crank broke
off. The resulting CG shift rendered the aircraft uncontrollable. If anyone
knows the actual NTSB results I would appreciate an update of the facts.
Elon
ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark D Hiatt" <OttoPilot_MSN(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Future of Aviation Navigation |
I had an interesting discussion with Michael Pilla about this kind of thing at
the
Frederick Forum last March or April. Basically, I was (and am) thinking that
by
the time I get my RV-6A done, there won't be a lot of time left on
ground-bound
navigation and I don't plan to install any.
I expect all of the rules and regulations will catch up with technology soon
and
provide a way to get an IFR rating without having to tune a radio. Okay,
"soon"
is a relative term when we're talking about our government, but they've
already
decided to give us Industrial Strength GPS (sometime "soon" as soon as they
work out the details). It may not happen before the year 2000, but then again,
I may not get my airplane flying by then, either. I expect improvements
in GPS the way we've seen them in personal computers-look at the units we
were wowed by just two years ago, look at last year's wonderbox and check
out the new Lowrance AirMap or the Garmin 195... now think about what we
might see in another two years, or another ten.
I might change my mind, as I get closer to finishing my airplane. Especially
if prices fall (a ton!) for the stuff we've got today. But for no more time
than
we'll be able to use it, I don't plan on installing anything but a handheld
VOR
in my airplane.
Mark D Hiatt
OttoPilot_MSN(at)msn.com
Aviation Forum Manager,
The Microsoft Network
"Lincoln Nebraska's Largest Personal Aircraft Builder"
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of William Costello
Sent: Monday, September 02, 1996 5:14 PM
Subject: RV-List: Future of Aviation Navigation
Hi Folks,
All of you may be aware of this, but I didn't realize that the
speculation was beginning to get official signatures.
**********************************************************
SATNAV IS HOT, NAVAIDS ARE NOT
FAA Administrator David Hinson has approved a GPS transition plan that
will phase out most current ground-based navigation systems by 2010 and
some even sooner.
*****************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
Dave Barnhart wrote:
>
> My F6111 parts don't seem to come anywhere near close to being the right
> shape. As I read the plans for the sliding canopy, the bottom of the F6111
> aligns with the top of the F624. It is supposed to lay flush against the
> inside of the skin, with the top of the F6111 against th F606 bulkhead.
>
> In this position, there is a gap of about an inch between the skin and the
> middle of the F6111.
>
> Has anyone else had this experience?
> I did those part abput a year ago and found that the right and left
markings were reversed on the stamped labels. Try swapping them and
they should work with a little twisting.
Rgds
Tom Olson
RV6a
Working on Engine and instruments
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
>Bob,
>You recommend keeping the main and starter relay dry when installed
>to prevent failure. I might of missed this in your book, but is it
>OK to mount both relays on the INSIDE of the firewall? The
>only problem I see is that maintenance on them might be a little
>harder. On my RV-6A, the cowl/fuse interface has a very small gap.
>Just big enough so that it isn't waterproof. This would allow
>moisture to seep onto the firewall and any relays mounted on the
>engine side. Another benefit of mounting both relays inside would
>be that the only time an energized 2 gauge wire would pass through
>the firewall is during engine start-up. This would reduce the
>possibilities of a 2 gauge wire shorting out at 10,000'. Yes, I
>am aware of the proper way of passing wire through the firewall.
>Thanks in advance.
> Scott Gesele N506RV scottgillagenet.com
Scott,
Water running down the firewall shouldn't hurt a starter
contactor mounted to it but whatever you do, don't try
to "waterproof" any electrical component by sealing
with any sort of guckum . . . my experience has shown
that anything less than 100% gas tight hermetic seals
causes more moisture problems than it cures. Besides,
if you bring the starter contactor inside, you'll have
to bring a fat alterntor b-lead inside too along with
fuse protection, ammeter shunt, etc. I think I'd
still put all this stuff on the engine side of the
firewall.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Franklin Engines |
Has anyone out there (successfully) tried to install one of the
Franklin 6 cyl engines in a 6/6A? I wouldn't normally be considering
it, but they're just so cheap...
Ted Boudreaux
Ted,
Call Pat Goodman
Atlas Motors
685 N. Loudown Street
Wine, VA 22601
703-667-7175
They are the us importers for Franklin engines. The Franklins
were used in a lot of airplanes especially the Stinsons. I used
to own an airport where one of our neighbors was a Stinson
restoration expert . . . his general opinion of the engines
both before and after they went overseas was pretty favorable.
It's certainly worth looking at . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Circuit Breakers et. als. |
> One of his ideas that I think has merit
>is the use of blade type fuses in a fuse block.
>>I though about this. In fact discussed it
>>with a good friend who has built/rebuilt several aircraft.
>>In the end, I decided to go with conventional circuit
>>breakers, for a couple of reasons:
>>1. There are two items installed in my RV-6 (autopilot
>>and electrim elevator trim) that absolotely must have a
>>way to disconnect them from electrical power (turn them off)
>>quickly. Popping the breaker is the best way I know.
IF and autopilot OR any other elecrically power device
hooked to the flight controls has a failure mode that
is scary . . . an autopilot/trim disconnect button
should be fitted to the control wheel . . . just like
on the Lears and Citations. This button should UNlatch
a simple latching relay circuit that requires deliberate
action to re-engage . . . Pulling breakers is a poor
subsitute.
>>2.From time to time I've had to do a little electrical
>>trouble-shooting in flight, shutting down individual
>>items. A circuit breaker panel is ideal for that.
No offense intended but pilots who hammer on airplanes
in flight are some of the same ones that fly L-1011's
into the Everglades because someone forgot to fly the
airplane. Do an effective failure mode effects analysis
and have a SIMPLE plan for dealing with all. Trouble
shooting by breaker pulling has been a standard saw
taught by CFI's for years . . . on certified ships the
pilot's are expected to be dumb when it comes to systems
management. If you're building your own airplane, you
should know more about it than anyone . . and be prepared
to operate it in the most relaxed and effective manner.
>Even at Aircraft Sruce prices, all the breakers for my
>entire airplane cost less than $200.
A block of fuses is $40, weighs less and takes hours
less labor to install. What's more, they can and should
be mounted out of pilot's reach. Leave the toolbox
closed until on the ground. See Sport Aviation
2/93 p80, 3/93 p86, and 6/94 p.83.
>Can anyone advise me regarding circuit breakers for an RV-6.
>I would like a rough idea of how many and what amperage
>I might need for a basic panel with landing lights and strobes.
>I realize this is a pretty vague question but I have just
>started the wing and haven't given electrics much thought
>at this point in time. The circuit breakers are Klixon
>brand and are free, hence the sudden interest. Are Klixon's okay?
Start with a power distribution diagram. With few exceptions,
all devices in the airplane are powered from a bus bar. Actually,
you should be planning for two bus bars . . . main and essential.
Make a list of each electrical item not unlike the list I saw
which replied to this query. Find out what the item draws an
choose circuit protection that's allows for 20% headroom.
Plan on space for at least 5 extra circuits per bus to be utilized in
the future. Try to avoid running too many gizmos on one protection.
While it's not disallowed, it does provide single point of failure for
all the gizmos.
There's more to planning the electrical system than allowing panel
space for breakers and lot's of options to consider. We're building
the most advanced airplanes of their class in the world guys, don't
sign up for traditional approaches to things without knowing if there's
a good technical foundation for it . . . do your home work!
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
**********************************
* Go ahead, make my day . . . . *
* Prove me wrong. *
**********************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wheel landings |
>I test flew a fellow's RV-6 for him and experimented with a modified
>wheel landing technique. After the weekend test flying, I called Van's
>and found that a few of them do the same thing.
>"Fly" the plane onto the runway in a three point attitude, then lift
>the tail slightly; i.e, don't try to touch on only the main(s) - you
>might bounce and then push just as the nose comes down, ...
>As a CFI who is required by the FARs to provide wheel landing checkouts,
>I have found that the most common reasons for a botched wheel landing are
>1) excessive vertical rate of sink and/or 2) too late and/or too aggressive
>a push on the stick.
>A trick I have used is to ask the student to add a couple of hundred RPM
>to the engine just as you do the slight flare (to reduce the rate of sink)
>and I also ask them to trim for an approach speed that is about 5 knots
>faster than the "desired" approach speed. Hand fly the correct speed and,
>as the main(s) touch, just *relax* the back pressure you have been holding;
>the elevator still has enough authority to lift the tail just about the
>right amount. Then, just maintain the attitude.
>If a wheel landing attempt does go awry, don't try to salvage by pushing/
>pulling; you'll get out of phase and make things worse. I've seen some
>pretty badly bent birds after a session of push/pull when it should have
>been pull/push.
>If you think about it, the bounce indicates the higher rate of sink and
>too fast an approach. So, the nose bounces up and is probably just at
>the right attitude to convert to a "three point" landing. I.e., instead
>of pushing, just "pull" a little and hold the attitude until the bird
>settles nicely to the runway. Fine point, if the bounce is higher than
>a few feet, add a few hundred RPM to reduce the rate of sink. The nose
>high attitude, along with the slightly increased thrust, will help keep
>the nose from falling harder, ...
>But, again, back to -6 (and -4), try the "fly it on" and then "raise the
>tail" approach. I was quite pleasantly surprised to see how well it works.
>The reason, IMHO, it seems to work is because the three point attitude is,
>as we all know, *not* the stall attitude.
>Mike Pilla
>pilla(at)exit109.com
>(908) 566-7604
Mike, Great post. I agree, the tail low wheel landing seems to work best.
It is frustrating, after flying taildraggers that full stall land nicely, to
not be able to do this with the RV-6. As I mentioned in a previous post,
the Aviation Products tailwheel probably agravates this condition as it sets
the tail a little higher (1.5 inches, if I remember correctly). Longer gear
main gear legs would probably help full stall, 3 point landings at the
expense of taxi visibility.
It seems that carring a little power, a little higher airspeed and flying
a flater approach is the key to making acceptable wheel landings. I think
the same applies to a "modified" three point. Having been taught to fly
patterns so that the airport can be reached in case of power loss
complicates the above approach. If power is pulled abeam of the touch down
point, I've found that I better save the application of flaps until later
than I have in the past. If the first notch is applied on down wind and the
second notch applied late on the base leg or after turning final, I
generally have to add power to make the runway. The RV-6 sinks fairly fast
without power whether the flaps are used or not. Because of the high sink
rate, timing becomes everything when it comes time to round out and flare
for a 3 point or even a wheel landing.
I'd be interested how others are handling the landing sequence. Do you
always come in under power (and hope the engine doesn't quit so you can make
the runway) or do you fly a power off approach? My guess is that most are
using a little power and making a shallower approach.
Another point about gusty crosswinds. I still feel more comfortable wheel
landing. There's something un-nerving about being in a three point attitude
and having a gust blow you off the centerline. If you elect to go around in
this condition, you have extra drag to overcome because of the high angle of
attack and you're farther away from the flying speed needed to make a
positive rate of climb and thus a safe go around. I know that in a wheel
landing, you still have to put tail down eventually. At least when rolling
down the runway with the tail up, you can get a feel as to gust conditions
and make a decision on whether to complete the landing or go around.
If it sound like I do a lot of go-rounds, I do. I feel that this is a
maneuver that is not practiced enough and find it less embarassing than
bending the airplane that I spent 5 years building. Bob Skinner RV-6
BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Torqued Value ??? |
>>Boy my 13 word request that took up so much "bandwidth" got me kicked in the
>>---. Sorry about that, I'm just a mere mortal who has no idea how to get the
>>FAQ's or what a search engine is--and thanks to those that replied to my
>>"e"mail address that I put after my name. I thought that someone could just
>>reply to me directly so as not to take up so much "bandwith". Now I don't
>>know if I should ask any more questions to the group or just ask "credible"
>>sources which will not take up so much "bandwidth".
>> Just curious, about one thing if you could bear with me a second; a question
>>was asked about deburring and to quote:
>>
>>> the Standard Aircraft book which Van's sells over the counter states on
>>> page 54 " Deburring shall not be performed on predrilled holes that are
>>> to be subsequently form countersunk." The next paragraph defines form
>>> countersunk as dimpled.
>> Is this manual AC43.13-1aA the "bible" that will tell us how to build safer
>>airplanes?
>>
>>Over and out (for the count).
>>
>>Howard Kidwell
>>howardrv(at)aol.com
>
>Howard, 43.13 is a good resource. I haven't looked at the FAQs for quite
>awhile so don't know if info about the search engine is in there or not.
>Probably is. It's a pretty neat deal. Otherwise, forgive some of us if
>we're a little short. I think I'm safe in saying that those of us who have
>built and are flying our RV's are on this list mainly to help fellow
>builders. It's just, somedays are better than others. I know that I wasn't
>as warm and friendly as I like to be at S&F when the 100th person came up
>and asked me what engine I had in the RV, how fast it goes, where was I
>from, etc. It's just that all of this info was on the prop tag and I
>couldn't understand why they didn't look at it. Some of the questions on
>the list are routine to us but we've got to remember that they are brand new
>to the one who's asking. So, post away. I'd rather see you ask a question
>that some might consider basic than have you make an un-needed mistake on
>your airplane. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>
>
I hope that anyone that would take offense at my carrying on this thread
will forgive me. I just want to comment on Bob's reply.
I, also, have finished my RV. I, also, am on this 'list' because I feel
that I have something to offer to builders. I have felt, at times, some
frustration at the questions that have been asked; why would someone ask how
to rivet, how to bend metal, how to pick out what RV to build??? We
'oldtimers' have been there, done that. Sometimes we tend to be somewhat
'short' with the basic questions posed by the new builders.
We, oldtimers and newbies alike, have to realize that this list is for all.
There is no way to force anyone to ask 'intelligent' questions. I would
hope that we all realize that all of us started as 'newbies'. I know that I
asked some really dumb questions when I was building 'Juliet Alpha'.
Now, let the questions commence. But, please, limit the questions on what
kind of primer to use; we've covered that _quite_ thoroughly already.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | elon ormsby <ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Future of Aviation Navigation |
you wrote:
SATNAV IS HOT, NAVAIDS ARE NOT FAA
Administrator David Hinson has approved a GPS transition plan that will
phase out most current ground-based navigation systems by
2010....Augmentation systems to enhance GPS accuracy and integrity are
expected to be in place in five years, the FAA said.
----------------------------------------
>Hmm. It'll be interesting to see if they can really phase out the current
>crop of high-precision (ILS) approaches that quickly.
>Joe Larson
___________________________________
One of the commercial carriers has already demonstrated (full
lock-up)Category III GPS approaches in Europe.
2010 is too long to wait. I think we will see budget pressures push the
system to GPS sooner than 2010. The Coast Guard's request(to the Congress
last summer) to dismantle the Loran system was based on budget pressure.
They wanted removal of ground stations by 1998 but congress made them extend
support 3 additional years.
Elon
ormsby(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ftpserver(at)pdsig.com |
>Received: by pdsig.com
We have received your electronic mail request for a file from our system. We
are responding with the requested file as an attachment to this message.sysop
pdsig.com
rivets(at)pdsig.com
STRENGTH OF COUNTERSINK RIVET JOINTS
Existing techniques used in the past regarding the changing head
angle of the countersink rivet are relevant today. Continuing
research, by aircraft manufacturers, for the ideal angle and head
strength of machine countersink rivets is a current goal.
For years aircraft manufacturers have been concerned with the
questionable strength of a flush joint made by using flat head
machine countersunk rivets. There are several types of
countersink rivets on the market. Information on how to install
them and why they are being used is available from aircraft and
rivet manufacturers.
Aircraft builders have know for a long time that flat head
machine countersink rivets cannot withstand bearing and shearing
loads as well as protruding head rivets. Yet, machine
countersink rivets are essential to aircraft builders for the
construction of streamlined airfoils used on modern high speed
aircraft.
VARIOUS HEAD ANGLES
Aircraft speeds increased and aircraft manufacturers began
experimenting with a variety of countersink rivet head angles.
Now countersink rivets are being produced with head angles of 78,
90, 100, 110 and 120 degrees. These many different head angles
are the result of experiments by the aircraft manufacturers to
find the rivet head which will withstand bearing and shearing
loads.
In the mid '50s, the 100 degree countersink rivet was established
as the standard for the aircraft industry. Some modern aircraft
use countersink rivets with head angles of 120 degrees. The
Boeing BACR 15 rivet, used on many modern jet liners, also has a
120 degree countersink head with a slight counterbore to exert
additional strength on the head.
RIVET JOINT EFFECTIVENESS
The major problem with machine countersink rivets is the cutting
away of metal when a conical well is made. The metal being
removed from the aircraft skin weakens the area around the rivet
head. This, in turn, reduces the bearing and shearing load
abilities of the joint.
There are several different machine countersink installation
methods gaining popularity among aircraft manufacturers.
One method is to install an oval shape countersink head rivet
similar to the type Boeing aircraft calls its BAC rivet. The gun
set used to drive the oval head countersink makes direct contact
with the rivet head.
All the energy from the rivet gun is directed totally onto the
countersink rivet head. This action causes the countersink rivet
head to fill and spread over the entire conical shaped well.
ALCOA produces several types of oval head countersink rivets.
One of the most recent rivets produced by ALCOA is called Crown
Flush.
The Crown Flush rivet is installed using a conventional machine
stop cutter in a 100 degree well. The rivet has an oval-shaped
countersink head. An ordinary mushroom gun set hits directly on
the head, thus packing it down into its 100 degree conical well.
The remaining countersunk head is not microshaved.
The result of this installation is a machined countersink rivet
with a stronger bearing head strength. Several aircraft
companies have discontinued the microshaving step of oval head
countersunk rivets. The reasons are: increased rivet head
strength, no adverse aerodynamic air flow after mid wing and a
cost saver for the company by eliminating the microshaving
operation.
RULES GOVERNING INSTALLATION
The guidelines for the manufacturing of solid shank rivets are
found in a document called Federal Standards QQA-430C. Military
Handbook 5E, titled METALLIC MATERIALS AND ELEMENTS FOR AEROSPACE
VEHICLE STRUCTURES contains information about the strength of
aircraft joints made by protruding and countersink rivets.
Countersink rivets used for making aircraft structural joints are
found in chapter 8.1.2.2 of Military Handbook 5E. Referring to
Table 8.1.2.2d shows the range of countersink rivet shear
strengths for various thicknesses of metal. The table shows that
shear strength for machine countersink rivets varies according to
the differences in skin thickness.
For example, the shear strength of a MS20426AD4 rivet installed
into a .040" thick skin is 309 pounds. When a 1/8" 426 rivet is
installed in thinner metals, its shear strength becomes less, as
shown in the table.
Notice the heavy line (*marked C) placed between various shear
strengths in the table.
The placement of these lines between two shear strengths
indicates the countersink rivets installed above the line are
undesirable and should not be used. They shouldn't be used
because the depth of the countersink rivet head is deep enough to
cause a knife-edge condition. A knife-edge condition is present
whenever a conical well does not have a land remaining.
A situation similar to knife-edge also happens when countersink
rivets are installed into thin skins and the conical well is deep
enough to enter the second skin. The only way countersink rivets
can be used when installed into thin skins is by the dimpling
method. Those values listed below the dark line indicate the
machine countersink rivets will have a high enough shear strength
to make a sound joint.
The values listed below the line have a higher shear strength
because the rivet head does not go through the top skin,
therefore leaving enough metal to form a land.
A larger land increases the shear strength of the rivet by
providing a blunt edge which reduces cutting the rivet while it
is loaded in shear or bearing.
PAST METHODS OF INSTALLATION
A technique presently used by many sheetmetal mechanics is to
drill the conical wells for countersunk rivets so the heads fit
slightly less than flush under the surface of the skin. Using
this procedure, the countersink (manufacturer's) head will not
completely fill the conical well. This is especially true when
harder rivet alloys such as 2024T4 are driven, thus the rivet
head will not be fully coldworked.
It does not become fully coldworked because the gun set cannot
make full contact with the countersunk rivet head. As a result,
the driving energy of the rivet gun is partly absorbed by the
area surrounding the rivet head.
This reduces the gun set's ability to direct its hitting energy
onto the manufacturer's head. The manufacturer's head only
partly forms and the skin surrounding the rivet head becomes
overdriven, hardened, stretched or cracked.
By comparison, when a universal head rivet is installed, it
receives the full impact of the rivet gun directly on to the
manufacturer's rivet head. This causes the head to become fully
coldworked, thus increasing the shearing and bearing strengths of
the installed rivets.
A technique used by aircraft manufacturers to increase the joint
strength of a machine countersink rivet joint was to use more of
them in a particular area.
Normally, when an aircraft is built the total shear and bearing
strength in an area becomes critical when machine countersunk
rivets are used. The shear strength required in areas where
countersink rivets are used is calculated for by using a
conservative driven shear strength for each rivet.
USING A SUCCESSFUL TECHNIQUE
A method used back in the '60s by one commercial jet aircraft
manufacturer was to install machine countersink rivets with the
heads protruding up at least .007" above the surface of the skin
after installation. This method has been put aside until
recently, when aircraft builders once again started to look
closely at the strength of machine countersink joints.
Now, twenty years later, many aircraft manufacturers are once
again beginning to follow the same basic pattern as they did
years ago.
The technique is simple: whenever a tension head countersink
rivet is to be driven, set a countersink cutter head to where the
rivet head is approximately .006" higher than the surface of the
skin. IN doing so, all the force of the mushroom gun set will be
directed onto the rivet head.
For example, if the alloy being riveted is .040" thick using
AN426AD4 rivets the conical well would be extended .002" into the
second sheet.
Normally this condition would require the need for a dimpled
installation. However, by setting the rivet .006" higher than
the surface of the skin it will make a .004" land. Any
countersink well made with a land remaining will have a stronger
shear strength. The thicker the land the stronger the shear
strength.
In summary, there are two reasons why machine countersunk rivets
are not as strong as protruding head rivets:
1. During the preparation of a countersink conical well, metal
is removed from the area. The removal of metal weakens the
bearing strength in the area around the rivet head. The top of a
countersink rivet hole flares out to a 100 degree angle and when
the joint is pulled in tension, the most likely places for
bearing failure to occur is at the conical well. The amount of
land remaining after countersink is made is very important to the
shear strength of the riveted joint.
2. As a countersink rivet is being driven into a well, the
mushroom rivet gun set does not make direct contact on the
manufacturer's rivet head. As a result of this action, the
countersunk rivet will not completely fill the well and fully
coldwork the head, especially if the rivet alloy is of a harder
variety.
To remedy these occurrences, manufacturers are recommending
machined countersunk rivet conical wells be drilled shallower. A
countersink rivet conical well should be cut so the finished
rivet head is about .006" higher than the surface of the skin.
The head of a countersink rivet will make contact with the
mushroom gun set thus packing the head into its conical well.
The rivet is now capable of carrying a greater bearing and
shearing load. The result of this action insures a much stronger
manufactuer's rivet head and an increase in the strength of the
rivet joint due to coldworking. The rivet should not be
microshaved in an effort to improve the aerodynamic air flow over
the area because the slight protrusion will have no adverse
effect. If it is, more rivets should be placed to make up for
some loss of strength.
On many aircraft the universal head rivet is becoming the choice
where once the countersink was used. This is especially true in
the construction of many slower flying light aircraft. After the
penetrating point, the aerodynamic airflow does not create
serious burbling air flow. However, for esthetics reasons, a
flush riveted aircraft is far more desirable than one with
universal head rivets!
BACK RIVETING.
To avoid damage to skins when flush riveting, many times a "back
riveting" tool is used. This tool fits into the rivet gun as a
set and hammers the buck tail from inside the aircraft while the
head is being held by bucking bar. This technique usually
assures that no damage occurs to mirror finished aluminum skins
by amateurs. A short rivet gun may be necessary when working
inside the wing or even a side hitting rivet gun may be needed.
This technique requires the tool be held absolutely perpendicular
to the bucktail to prevent walking and bending it over. A few
minutes practice should be enough to become proficient.
Oversized holes can be "filled" by using a slightly longer
bucktail rivet and driving it slowly and carefully. This will
work whether using a countersunk head rivet or not. A universal
head rivet can be used with this method by drilling a body-fender
bucking bar to accept the universal head set. The curved face of
the bar fits ones hand well. In this case the bucking bar with
the proper size set installed in it is applied to the rivet head
and the bucktail is hammered down with the rivet gun holding the
back riveting tool.
For more info about other aviation related subjects, send email
to infobot(at)pdsig.com This will return a directory to you. No
subject is required or is anything in the body needed.
bj nash
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A Tip-up canopy questions |
General question to all,
now that the gas struts are usually fitted to the canopy, what purpose does
the jettison mechanism have or is there a way to tie in the hinge release
with a strut release?
Royce Craven
roycec(at)ozemail.com.au
>Bob S.:
>
>thanks for taking the time to answer my canopy question. After going ahead
>and building to fit, I have come to exactly the same conclusion about the
>side skins. If they are to overlap, which may be better for all the reasons
>you cited, they will certainly have to be larger. ("I don't understand-I've
>cut them three times and they're STILL too short!") My plan is to procede
>with the fun of drilling the gooseneck hinge blocks and fitting the latching
>and jettison mechanisms while brooding over the side skin question: to butt
>or not to butt; whether tis better to overlap and risk scuffing the sides of
>my beautiful plane each time I close the lid... I'll decide later, after I
>hear some list-wisdom.
>
>Bill Boyd
>SportAV8R(at)AOL.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Torqued Value ??? |
Ask away. We all should know where the delete key is, if I can and feel like
contributing to a question I usually reply to the originator and not the
list. I have also been asked not to clutter the list but I still do
occasionally anyway! :^)
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cecil Hatfield / Fourstar Printing <cecil(at)alto1.altonet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bird Strike (chatter) |
John, Bill didn't use his name but a call to Van's would get it for you.
********************************************************************
You wrote:
If anyone knows the blind guys name I'd really appreciate it if you'd pass
it along. I've got kind of a personal interest in this since my wife also
is blind since birth and is the President of the Washington Council of the
Blind here in Washington state as well as teaches seminars on the rights and
responsibilitys of employers and employees regards the American Disability
Act.
She may know the blind fellow since she is also quite active in Oregon blind
'politics'.
TIA
John Ammeter
-------------------------------------
Cecil Hatfield
cecil@altonet
RV-6A (wings)
Date: 09/03/96
Time: 07:16:43
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Torqued Value ??? |
aol.com!HowardRV(at)matronics.com wrote:
> Now I don't know if I should ask any more questions to the group or just ask
> "credible" sources which will not take up so much "bandwidth".
Howard, don't give up on us yet. This flame flares up every so often,
which clues the relatively new listers into some of these resources.
You just happened to be the trigger. It's true that you would have
known this had you read the FAQ, but how many newbies read the FAQ? Now
you know, so check the archives first, then ask the question. If you
found it in the archive but still need clarification, say so and then
the grumps won't have cause to torch you; in fact, most of them go into
teacher mode and are quite helpful.
PatK - RV-6A - Left wing skins drilled and clecoed; starting the flaps.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A Tip-up canopy questions |
>General question to all,
>
>now that the gas struts are usually fitted to the canopy, what purpose does
>the jettison mechanism have or is there a way to tie in the hinge release
>with a strut release?
>
>Royce Craven
>roycec(at)ozemail.com.au
>
>
Royce,
I decided not to put the jettison mechanism on my RV-6A. Not only will the
struts interfere with the ability to "pop" the canopy, the new style hinge
will also hold it back. The "C" hinge up front will catch on the sub-panel
and drip guard unless a slot is cut into it. That slot will allow water to
enter the cockpit area (right over expensive avionics). The design was
changed to the "C" style to address the water leaking issue. Can you say
catch 22?
The only reason I see for the ability to jettison the canopy is if you were
planning on getting out after structural failure during aerobatics. How
many people actually wear chutes with their RV? I was told that no one has
ever bailed out of an RV.
-Scott N506RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
| Subject: | Deleteable Chaff |
"Altitude Hole" ????????
Man, this just goes to show you that you really have to filter the advice
you get here through the reality strainer. Anyone knows the altitude hole
has nothing to do with flight profile or weather buildup. It is merely a
device that makes the air surrounding your engine more dense while at higher
density altitudes. Kind of a poor-mans supercharger. It's really very
simple, I was going to invent it myself but I was too busy teaching a couple
of quick build kitters how to effectively finish edges and alumiprep(he, he,
he). Man, they've still got a lot of learnin to do.
Eric Henson
Dana Point, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BestBillO(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid devices wingleveler |
Evidently it is. Ah, yes, the proof-reading skills need to be honed. My
errant middle finger wandering off a bit! Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Just the FAQs, ma'am |
A couple of years ago, after getting tired of seeing the same questions
over and over on the rv-list, I decided that instead of using up more
bandwith by complaining about it, I'd do something constructive, and the
RV-list FAQ was born. In it I tried to summarize net wisdom on as many
of the repeat questions as I could. (The FAQ is available on Matts Web
site, and also via FTP, and I believe that Matt sends it to all new
subscribers.)
Back when I made it up, the repeat questions included whether or not to
buy the pre-built spar, whether dimpling or machine countersinking is
better, and what is Vans phone number. Admittedly, those questions do
still pop up now and then, but at a much less frequent rate than they
used to.
My point is this: at the top of the FAQ it says the following:
> Feel free to send any suggestions for updates or changes to the
> RV-List Administrator at: request(at)matronics.com
Yet I have seen very few (zero?) additions from anyone else. Well, the
next time you see a "repeat question" from a newbie that you are just
sick of seeing over and over again, instead of complaining to the list,
why not write the answer up and send it to Matt, for addition to the
FAQ. This will save a lot of bandwith in the short AND the long run.
The question that started this thread is a good example. In the current
FAQ there is a section that includes references to other sources of
information. Why not send Matt a message requesting that he add a
reference to AC41-3A? And also, since the torque value question is a
_serious_ repeater, how about making up a Q/A to add to the FAQ, for the
benefit of newbies. This would solve a lot of bandwidth problems,
methinks.
Of course there are always those who will never read the damn thing.
Oh well, nothing's perfect.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
Editor, Home Wing Newsletter
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: 6A Tip-up canopy questions |
>>General question to all,
>>
>>now that the gas struts are usually fitted to the canopy, what purpose does
>>the jettison mechanism have or is there a way to tie in the hinge release
>>with a strut release?
>>
>>Royce Craven
>>roycec(at)ozemail.com.au
>>
>>
>The only reason I see for the ability to jettison the canopy is if you were
>planning on getting out after structural failure during aerobatics. How
>many people actually wear chutes with their RV? I was told that no one has
>ever bailed out of an RV.
>
>-Scott N506RV
Gentlemen:
This is the exact reason I don't have a strut on my 4 canopy......And when I
go out to do aerobatics I wear a chute and so does the other 4 in my hangar.
I believe you are correct that no one has punched out of an RV, but if the
occasion should come up, I would most definitely like the option.
You ever hear the old expression "leave yourself a way out"?
People do survive inflight breakups.....Last fall a decathlon broke and one
guy got out, one didn't. I'll keep wearing mine.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scholl Jon" <scholl.jon(at)smtpgw.bcg.com> |
Is anyone using a venturi to run gyro's? What is the effect on drag? Other
tradeoff's with a pump?
Jon Scholl
bcg007(at)aol.com
RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: Just the FAQs, ma'am (plus bolt torques) |
*** FAQ stuff deleted ***
>The question that started this thread is a good example. In the current
>FAQ there is a section that includes references to other sources of
>information. Why not send Matt a message requesting that he add a
>reference to AC41-3A? And also, since the torque value question is a
>_serious_ repeater, how about making up a Q/A to add to the FAQ, for the
>benefit of newbies. This would solve a lot of bandwidth problems,
>methinks.
>
>Of course there are always those who will never read the damn thing.
>Oh well, nothing's perfect.
>
>Randall Henderson, RV-6
>Editor, Home Wing Newsletter
>http://www.edt.com/homewing
>randall(at)edt.com
Randall ... perhaps people should use the RV-list archives a bit more often?
Matt ... cut and paste into the FAQ ... :^) .... Gil A.
The FAQ does give GOOD details on how to get the archives and
several methods of searching it. Following is a re-post of 7-30-96 (at
least the third time) of one of my early postings: A very simple search
would find these:
*** 7-30-96 POSTING ***
For all the new RV-listers, this is a re-post of bolt torque specs.
for RVs.
Check the RV-list archives!!
*** REPOST OF 9-13-94 & 11-8-95 POSTING ***
Doug, and all other RV builders
... here it is!! ... straight from the FAA mechanics bible
.... AC43.13-1A "Acceptable Methods, Techniques and Practices - Aircraft
Inspection, Repair and Alteration"
Notes --
1. Torque for clean, dry threads - no lubrication.
2. You can use the manufacture's recommendations (if you can find them!),
measure the prevailing torque from the fibre locking ring, and add this
torque to the recommended torque... OR ... you can use the figures from
the table (quoted below) and just use them as a final torque.
3. Apply a smooth, even pull, if any jerking motion occurs, back off and
re-torque.
4. Fibre lock nuts can be re-used any number of times, as long as the nut
cannot be turned by finger pressure.
5. Do not use fibre locking nuts on bolts with a drilled cotter pin holes
in sizes less than 5/16. At 5/16 and above, make sure no burrs exist
around the drilled hole.
NOTE --
6. Self-locking nut/bolt combinations with NO cotter pin ARE OK for control
systems as long as they clamp on an inner race of a bearing, and the bolt
itself is not used as a pivot. This is the general RV control system
arrangement, but there are exceptions.
SELECTED TORQUE VALUES from AC43.13-1A -- chapter 5
AN bolt, AN365 nut (the usual RV combination)
#10 (AN3) 20-25 in.-lbs.
1/4 (AN4) 50-70 in.-lbs.
AN bolt, AN364 thin locknut
#10 (AN3) 12-15 in.-lbs.
1/4 (AN4) 30-40 in.-lbs.
If you use a high strength bolt (such as NAS1300 series)
with AN365 locknut
#10 (AN3) 25-30 in.-lbs.
1/4 (AN4) 80-100 in.-lbs.
The all metal locknuts are usually rated the same as the AN365 fibre locknut.
OK .. for all of you who are not convinced by the FAA recommendations,
Aircraft Spruce offers a "Belt and Braces" approach. They sell MS17825
self-locking castle nuts. This gives the best of both worlds, fibre
locking AND a cotter pin, but at about a $1.00 each.
Hope this helps .. Gil Alexander RV6A #20701
PS. Get a copy of AC43.13, or borrow one from your friendly FAA Mechanic,
it's well worth reading.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
| Subject: | FS: 160 HP Lycoming: $2500 |
160 Lycoming ponys! I have a 0-320-H2AD From a 1976 Cessna 172.
It's a bare engine without any accessories, but the price is right:
$2500 I don't have the logbook but there is a 50-50 chance it will
turn up. The crank alone is worth what I'm asking. You could
overhaul it yourself and have a great engine or trade it off for
stuff you want!
Cash and carry, no less or trades.
Bill Nash
(For other aviation deals, send an email message to infobot(at)pdsig.com
for a directory by auto-response email!)
Telephone Payment Clearings, Inc
Phone: 619 749 7049
Fax: 619 749 6384
BBS: 619 749 2741
Info-file: telpay(at)pdsig.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Circuit Breakers et. als. |
> >Even at Aircraft Sruce prices, all the breakers for my entire
> >airplane cost less than $200.
>
> A block of fuses is $40, weighs less and takes hours less labor
> to install. What's more, they can and should be mounted out of
> pilot's reach. Leave the toolbox closed until on the ground.
> See Sport Aviation 2/93 p80, 3/93 p86, and 6/94 p.83.
Thinking about it, I'd probably go with the fuse block, and then add switches
in line for those things that would need 'em. I feel a little odd about
putting so much wear on a breaker when a switch is designed to be regularly
cycled.
About the only problem I have with blade fuses is that it's so difficult to
see whether they're burned out or not without pulling them (And some blocks
require a tool to grip them). Glass auto-fuses aren't much better when
they're in the bayonet holders, but the clip holders, while providing
excellent visibility, are prone to be shorted if something metal hits the
clips. You can't win.
BTW, how much power might the coils of a latching relay system take up?
--
(Sorry Randall, no more room for the Yakko Warner quote)
Richard Chandler
RV-6: Garage bought, saving for tools and tail kit (Christmas?).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Torqued Value ??? |
I'd rather see you ask a question
>that some might consider basic than have you make an un-needed mistake on
>your airplane. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>
YES!! Thank you, Bob. I have been on the list for less than a year and
don't really REMEMBER what all has been covered, search engine or not (which
sometimes does not search, by the way). I have found that the areas of a
completed airplane I look at are the areas I am currently working on. I get
back to the shop and wish I had looked at some of the other things. Same
with questions: I am asking about what I am building on. We DON'T want
this list to become what a lot of builders have found: the former builders
that are flying don't seem to come around the shop any more. I stopped
calling Vans as I found I was treated as if they had answered that VERY same
question 89 times TODAY already. (I believe that has changed, by the way.)
This list is my main source of information and all questions should be
looked at as if we ourselves are asking them. I have suddenly found myself
wondering what torque values for the different bolts were. I KNOW the
values are in the books but sometimes we don't think about the obvious
places to look and The List is right there. Building can be frustrating
enough because the obvious sometimes isn't so obvious. How many HOURS could
I log as "Staring at the plans". It's so OBVIOUS...it's right there in the
plans.
Let's not scare anyone from asking "stupid" questions...we have all asked
them before.
Michael
RV-4 232SQ
buildingbuildingbuildingbuilding
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: Circuit Breakers et. als. |
*** snip ***
>
>Thinking about it, I'd probably go with the fuse block, and then add switches
>in line for those things that would need 'em. I feel a little odd about
>putting so much wear on a breaker when a switch is designed to be regularly
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>cycled.
Richard ... Don't sweat it. The Potter-Brumfield W23 (the
pull-to-break) and W31 (has a toggle) series are specified as switches as
well as breakers, and have a typical endurance of 50,000 operations at
rated current -- they should outlive your RV!
Gil (prefer a fuse and W31-toggle or W33-rocker breaker mix) Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
RV6A, #20701
*** snip ***
>Richard Chandler
>RV-6: Garage bought, saving for tools and tail kit (Christmas?).
________________________________________________________________________________
Hey RV Pilots & builders.
Were having a RV fly-in in association with EAA chapter 863's (lebanon TN
M54) annual fly in. The date is 10-5-96 from dawn to dust. We will award
trophies and have several events scheduled, Bomb drop, air race, and spot
landng contest.. Everone welcome. We will have a good time!!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DMusgrave(at)swri.edu |
| Subject: | Looking for some Tools |
charset=US-ASCII
Attention perservering souls with flying airplanes!
I'm just getting started in sheet metal and need some tools,
so if you're done with yours, send me an e-mail and let's see
if I can help you clean out the garage.
I'm looking for hand rivet setting fixture with mandrels,
cleko clamps, drills and drill stops, a small break,
and, oh yes, lots of rivets!
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | FLOSCAN Fuel flow sender. |
Does anyone know the number of pulses per gallon the FLOSCAN264 does. I
used 48000 pulses per gall (US). I think I got it wrong though because
my fuel flow seems awfully low!
Thanks
Ken RV6A 25 hours on the clock....My first Fly in this w/e YIPPPEEEE!
j.ken_hitchmough(at)mail.magic.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | The Smiths <kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6 Canopy gas struts--jetison |
Seems to me that a conopy jetison is worthless unless you wear a
parachute. I know tha FARS require one for aerobatics (nose up or down
greater than 30 degrees, bank greater than 45 [?] degrees), but I've
never seen a chute near an RV. Heard of a few on test and first flight,
but never seen one.
I've been debating a seat cushion chute as regular equipment, figuring
that I'd be late in repacking the thing eventually...but beter
un-repacked than absent. That's an expensive cushion, though.
Ken Smith
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
To those of you who are using an electric primer; did you just wire it to its
own breaker? I was thinking about maybe running power to the primer switch
from the fuel pump switch. Since the pump has to be on to use the primer
anyway it seems that this would prevent accidental activation.
Thoughts?
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Who is 'Greg King' |
I've been receiving 'Light Plane Maintenance' for 4 or 5 months now. I
didn't sign up for it even though I do realize the value in it.
The mailing tag reads, 'With the Complements of Greg King'. I don't know
who Greg King is. I do know a Monte King and several people named 'Greg'
but no 'Greg King'.
I ask the 'list'; are one of you my benefactor? Do you know 'Greg King'?
I've even contacted LPM and they don't know either.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Breakers et. als. |
>Thinking about it, I'd probably go with the fuse block,
>and then add switches in line for those things that would
>need 'em. I feel a little odd about putting so much
>wear on a breaker when a switch is designed to be regularly
>cycled.
>>Richard ... Don't sweat it. The Potter-Brumfield W23
>>(the pull-to-break) and W31 (has a toggle) series are
>>specified as switches as well as breakers, and have a
>>typical endurance of 50,000 operations at rated current
>> -- they should outlive your RV!
Both true but consider the following: Breaker/switches
are designed to be branch feeds from a BUS BAR. However,
few of the total number of feeds from the bus need to
be switched. Further, switches tend to be located in
different places on the panel than to breakers. So,
you'll find that breaker/switches force the fabrication
of a separate bus behind the switch panel which increases
the number of wire segments in what are classically un-
protected circuits. The fuse block IS your bus bar.
If you choose to have main and essential busses, then
two fuse blocks provide all the bus structures right out
of the box. These are one-piece busses that have fuse
tab grips formed right into the bus bar material. VERY
LOW parts count.
>About the only problem I have with blade fuses is that
>it's so difficult to see whether they're burned out
>or not without pulling them (And some blocks
>require a tool to grip them).
True and True . . . but consider that in 1000+ hours
of flying, I've never had a breaker open in flight
with the exception of the 60 amp breaker on a Cessna
that's basically undersized and prone to nuisance
tripping. With FMEA, the need to use breakers as
trouble shooting tools in flight goes away (it was
never a good idea in the first place). Beyond that,
the fuses in your airplane should be no more bother
than the ones in your car and I can't remember when
the last time was I had to fiddle with them. Breakers
are an expensive, time consuming, panel space robbing
hedge against trivial inconvenience.
>Glass auto-fuses aren't much better when they're in the
>bayonet holders, but the clip holders, while providing
>excellent visibility, are prone to be shorted if something
>metal hits the clips. You can't win.
Sure you can . . . Both the open faced clip and bayonet
style fuse holders are wide area, low pressure devices
with respect to their electrical connnections to glass
fuses . . . I do not recommend these holders except in
the most trivial, not critical area (like electric clock
feed from battery). When I encourage the use of fuses,
they are either (1) fuse blocks with high pressure, gas
tight connections or (2) inline fuseholders that do not
depend on tension springs for electrical integrity. Not
all fuse holders are alike . . .
>BTW, how much power might the coils of a latching relay system take up?
How would you like to use latching relays????
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
********************************
* Go ahead, make my day . . . *
* Prove me wrong. *
********************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
<< My F6111 parts don't seem to come anywhere near close to being the right
shape. As I read the plans for the sliding canopy, the bottom of the F6111
aligns with the top of the F624. It is supposed to lay flush against the
inside of the skin, with the top of the F6111 against th F606 bulkhead.
In this position, there is a gap of about an inch between the skin and the
middle of the F6111.
Has anyone else had this experience? >>
Yes. Try swapping the left and right 6111's. Mine were marked wrong and had
the same problem. I happened to visit the factory when I was having that
problem and I mentioned it to Tom. His response was "Hmm, I wonder how many
went out like that." He also mentioned that they aren't structural, and they
only keep some goober from denting the skin if he happens to lean on it
there.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: FLOSCAN Fuel flow sender. |
>--------------
>Does anyone know the number of pulses per gallon the FLOSCAN264 does. I
>used 48000 pulses per gall (US). I think I got it wrong though because
>my fuel flow seems awfully low!
>
>Thanks
>
>Ken RV6A 25 hours on the clock....My first Fly in this w/e YIPPPEEEE!
>
>j.ken_hitchmough(at)mail.magic.ca
>--------------
Ken,
>From the 264 App Notes:
"...A typical 264PB-15 flow transducer gives a weighted average K factor of
47300 +-2% pulses/gallon over the normal operating flow range of .5-8 GPH..."
If you like, I can FAX you a copy of the App sheet. There are some interesting
things on it.
If I may ask, what equipment are you using the 264 with?
Matt Dralle
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
Am I correct in assuming that a 2" SCAT tube is NOT the correct diameter for
a 2" flange? Or is it *supposed* to take 15 minutes to get it on there?
It seems like a 2.25" tube would be too big though.
Thanks
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (Bill Nash) |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for some Tools |
>I'm just getting started in sheet metal and need some tools,
>I'm looking for hand rivet setting fixture with mandrels,
>cleko clamps, drills and drill stops, a small break,
>
>and, oh yes, lots of rivets!
>
>Dave
>
>
You need to send a email messge to tools(at)pdsig.com for a listing of stuff
we have! No subject is required nor anything in the body of the messge:
just send it email and your list will be returned.
Remember! Not to me!
bj
BJ Nash: Tel Pay Clearings, Inc (Phone Billing & electronic cards)
1291 E. Vista Way, #150, Vista, CA. USA
619 749 7049 (Voice) 619 749 2741 (BBS)
619 749 6384 (FAX) E-MAIL To: bjnash(at)pdsig.com
Get an info-pak from telpay(at)pdsig.com or call from a
fax phone to 703 904 9888 get document 253
"Go confidently in the direction of your dreams". (T)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin lane <kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bird Strike (chatter) |
John Ammeter wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Bill took a few of us through the factory on Sunday and told a story that
> >goes somthing like this.
> >
> >In the shop they had a worker that built the crates for shipping. And as the
> >orders kept building bigger and bigger this fellow could not keep up. A
> >fellow that lived across the street came looking for a job saying he new
> >woodworking and that the state of Oregon taught him his woodworking skills.
> >Bill had large doubts as anyone would have, but decided to give him a chance
> >helping put the packing boxes togeather. Before long the 'regular' guy
> >wasn't working there anymore. I forget the reason Bill gave. Any way the
> >point to the story is that the 'new guy' from across the street has the job
> >to his self now and does the whole job each day in a half days time.
> > THIS NEW FELLOW HAS BEEN BLIND SINCE BIRTH
> >I for one, congratulate Van's Aircraft for giving the man a chance.
> >-------------------------------------
> >Cecil Hatfield
> >cecil@altonet
> >RV-6A (wings)
> >
> >Date: 09/02/96
> >Time: 12:18:17
> >
> >
> If anyone knows the blind guys name I'd really appreciate it if you'd pass
> it along. I've got kind of a personal interest in this since my wife also
> is blind since birth and is the President of the Washington Council of the
> Blind here in Washington state as well as teaches seminars on the rights and
> responsibilitys of employers and employees regards the American Disability Act.
>
> She may know the blind fellow since she is also quite active in Oregon blind
> 'politics'.
>
> TIA
>
> John Ammeter
> ammeterj(at)seanet.com
> 3233 NE 95th St
> Seattle WA, 98115 USA
> RV-6 N16JA
> First flight August 1990I have spent many weeks at Van's building the mezzanines
in the
warehouse and machine shop. It was delightful to meet Jim and very scary
as a carpenter to watch him run not only nailing guns using his finger to
guide it along the edge of the crates but also the table saw and radial
arm saws! He has all his fingers too! We wondered what it would be like
to build crates at midnight without the lights on! Jim is a very
cheerful guy to be around and has an eclectic taste of music. I
introduced him to my latest guide dog puppy I'm raising but he kinda
likes just folding up his cane, "you don't have to worry about feeding
it at the end of the day." Kevin Lane-6A (finish kit)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thomas N. Martin" <103212.65(at)CompuServe.COM> |
There is an EAA flyin at Marion Ohio thisSaturday and Sunday. Does anyone know
if it is worth going to. Will there be any RVs there? Any comments?
Tom Martin
RV-4 the RAVen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John McMahon <rv6(at)earthlink.net> |
aol.com!Airtoby(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Hey RV Pilots & builders.
> Were having a RV fly-in in association with EAA chapter 863's (lebanon TN
> M54) annual fly in. The date is 10-5-96 from dawn to dust. We will award
> trophies and have several events scheduled, Bomb drop, air race, and spot
> landng contest.. Everone welcome. We will have a good time!!!!!
THANK YOU SO MUNCH ,I WILL BE THERE.I HEAR THAT IT IS A GREAT FLY IN.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 6A Tip-up canopy questions |
<<
The only reason I see for the ability to jettison the canopy is if you were
planning on getting out after structural failure during aerobatics. How
many people actually wear chutes with their RV? I was told that no one has
ever bailed out of an RV.
-Scott N506RV
>>
The release mechanism also allows for easy repairs on the canopy.....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Breakers et. als. |
<<
Both true but consider the following: Breaker/switches
are designed to be branch feeds from a BUS BAR. However,
few of the total number of feeds from the bus need to
be switched. Further, switches tend to be located in
different places on the panel than to breakers. So,
you'll find that breaker/switches force the fabrication
of a separate bus behind the switch panel which increases
the number of wire segments in what are classically un-
protected circuits. The fuse block IS your bus bar.
If you choose to have main and essential busses, then
two fuse blocks provide all the bus structures right out
of the box. These are one-piece busses that have fuse
tab grips formed right into the bus bar material. VERY
LOW parts count.
>>
Bob:
Could you provide a source and part number for the fuse blocks you
recommend?
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
I used 2" SCAT tube on the 2" flanges and yes it is a little difficult to
get on. I found if I bent the tip of the flange down (inside) slightly
it worked better. Most flanges are over 1" long and making a slight bend
on the first 1/4" didn't seem to cause a problem at least not during the
first 73 hrs! :^)
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
On Wed, 4 Sep 1996 aol.com!EBundy2620(at)matronics.com wrote:
> Am I correct in assuming that a 2" SCAT tube is NOT the correct diameter for
> a 2" flange? Or is it *supposed* to take 15 minutes to get it on there?
>
> It seems like a 2.25" tube would be too big though.
>
> Thanks
> Ed Bundy
> ebundy2620(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Moore <bobmoore(at)mail.wwd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6 Canopy gas struts--jetison |
The Smiths wrote:
>
> Seems to me that a conopy jetison is worthless unless you wear a
> parachute. I know tha FARS require one for aerobatics (nose up or down
> greater than 30 degrees, bank greater than 45 [?] degrees), but I've
> never seen a chute near an RV. Heard of a few on test and first flight,
> but never seen one.
Ken --
Re-read FAR 91.303 and 91.307. The FARs DO NOT require parachutes if the
pilot is the only occupant of the aircraft nor if there are only crew-
members aboard. Parachutes for all aerobatics seems to be just another
"Old Pilot's Wives Story".
Read FAR Part 1 for the definition of crewmember -- pretty broad.
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mailman(at)baldcom.net |
| Subject: | list problem for me |
I have subscribed to the list 2 times now and am not receiving any mail.
can someone have someone check to see if the list is still functioning?
thanks Judd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6 Canopy gas struts--jetison |
The Smiths wrote:
> Seems to me that a conopy jetison is worthless unless you wear a
> parachute.
Folks, a while back in the RVator, they described a couple of flights
where the engine basically puked oil all over the windscreen. I forget
the date of the article, but they basically said that you might want to
jettison the canopy for visibility. They also mentioned that it was a
good way to get oil in the face. Anyway, jettison capability might come
in handy. How about grenade style pins on the gas strut attach points?
PatK - RV-6A - in a whimsical mood.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A Tip-up canopy questions |
>
><<
> The only reason I see for the ability to jettison the canopy is if you were
> planning on getting out after structural failure during aerobatics. How
> many people actually wear chutes with their RV? I was told that no one has
> ever bailed out of an RV.
>
> -Scott N506RV
> >>
> The release mechanism also allows for easy repairs on the canopy.....
>
>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
>wstucklen(at)aol.com
>
>
Fred,
That's true, but the combined time of getting on my back and removing two
nuts and two bolts over the life of the A/C is probably less than the time
it would take to install the release assembly in the first place. Not
installing it also saves a little weight and frees up some panel space.
Just another point of view.
-Scott N506RV
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: FLYIN AT MARION |
>There is an EAA flyin at Marion Ohio thisSaturday and Sunday. Does anyone know
>if it is worth going to. Will there be any RVs there? Any comments?
>
>Tom Martin
>RV-4 the RAVen
>
Tom:
I went the past couple of years and it's you basic regional fly-in. You get
a little of everything....I went Saturday last year and I guess there was 8
or so RV's there at the time. I would think there would be more this year
due to the ever increasing population. The only problem could be the
weather. The long range (for what it's worth) is calling for possible rain
both days in Ohio.
You pay your money and take your chances........If you're close and it's not
raining, go.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Hanna <peterh(at)rdmcorp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FLYIN AT MARION |
I heard there was an RV Ontario Wing Flyin at St. Thomas on Saturday, Sept 7
- aren't you folks the hosts?
>There is an EAA flyin at Marion Ohio thisSaturday and Sunday. Does anyone know
>if it is worth going to. Will there be any RVs there? Any comments?
>
>Tom Martin
>RV-4 the RAVen
>
>
Peter Hanna, RDM Corp, 4-608 Weber St. North, Waterloo, Canada, N2V1K4.
B: 519-746-8483 X224, 1-800-567-6227 X224, Fax: 519-746-3317.
Email: peterh(at)rdmcorp.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
| Subject: | Re: list problem for me |
baldcom.net!mailman(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> I have subscribed to the list 2 times now and am not receiving any mail.
> can someone have someone check to see if the list is still functioning?
> thanks Judd
Your post came thru OK
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com |
Welcome aboard!! First off, I must compliment you on your excellent taste
and obvious superb judgement in choosing the RV4.
The slider is not a part of the kit. You have to get plans from one of
the few people who have done them. Van objects to the extra work involved
and also the aesthetics. He feels the slider has to be so long to uncover
both seats, that it detracts from the overall appearance of the airplane.
Personally, I wanted one at first. Then, later, decided that it wasn't worth
the trouble. Now, I think I like the tipover better.
Good luck
John Walsh(at)cpeedy.enet.dec.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: list problem for me |
>--------------
>
>> baldcom.net!mailman(at)matronics.com Wrote:
>>
>> I have subscribed to the list 2 times now and am not receiving any mail.
>> can someone have someone check to see if the list is still functioning?
>> thanks Judd
>
>
>Your post came thru OK
>
>Rick
>--------------
Dear Mr. Mailman,
Your email address was causing bounced messages and, according to List policy,
was removed from the distribution without notice. If you feel that your
address is working correctly, you may resubscribe to the List at any time.
I have just completed all subscriptions and your address is still not
listed. Are you positive that you followed the correct subscription
procedure? This would be to send an email message to
"rv-list-request(at)matronics.com"
and put the word "subscribe" in the BODY (not the Subject) of the message
and *no other text*. FYI, to unsubscribe, the same procedure is used except
that the word "unsubscribe" is used in the body.
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
RV-List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com (Doug Weiler) |
Fellow Listers:
Just a note to advise everyone of the annual MN Wing Picnic and Fly-in to be
held Saturday, Sept 14 at Sky Harbor Airpark, Webster, MN (8 miles SW of the
Farmington VOR, just south of Minneapolis).
Eating starts around noon, bring a salad or dessert to share. Pop and all
the slow roasted pork you can eat is provided. Special invitation to flying
RVs!!! (monitor 122.9 for traffic and parking). This is a residential
airpark so please be courteous to the local residents when flying in!
Questions, call me or Jim Lenzmeier (612-633-8488).
Doug
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
= Doug Weiler, pres. MN Wing, Van's AirForce, RV-4 in progress, N722DW
= 347 Krattley Lane
= Hudson, WI 54016
= 715-386-1239
= email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
>Am I correct in assuming that a 2" SCAT tube is NOT the correct diameter for
>a 2" flange? Or is it *supposed* to take 15 minutes to get it on there?
>
>It seems like a 2.25" tube would be too big though.
>
>Thanks
>Ed Bundy
>ebundy2620(at)aol.com
Ed, I chucked my 2" flanges in my lathe and "polished" down the O.D. so the
2" scat would fit OK. Not all 2" flanges are created equall. I turned one
of my "turned down and polished" 2" flanges into a mold. On occasion, when
I had some extra resin, I layed up some fiberglass on the waxed aluminum
flange. I used the fiberglass 2" flanges on the back side of my eye ball
swivel air vents on my instrument panel.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A Tip-up canopy questions |
>The only reason I see for the ability to jettison the canopy is if you were
>planning on getting out after structural failure during aerobatics. How
>many people actually wear chutes with their RV? I was told that no one has
>ever bailed out of an RV.
>
>-Scott N506RV
The jettison mechanism does come in handy for removing the canopy for
painting or when easier access is desired to the back of the panel (haven't
needed to use the later feature.) Also, if the canopy does need to be
removed, I'd hate to think about laying under the instrument panel and
twisting wrenches to remove nuts and bolts, especially on the right hinge
where the radio stack will probably be very close to. I guess I spent
enough time under the panel that when I get to thinking about having to
remove bolts to remove the canopy, it makes me glad that I installed the
jettison mechanism.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: 6A Tip-up canopy questions |
>>> The only reason I see for the ability to jettison the canopy is if you were
>>> planning on getting out after structural failure during aerobatics.
>>>
>>> -Scott N506RV
>>
>> The release mechanism also allows for easy repairs on the canopy.....
>>
>>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
>>wstucklen(at)aol.com
>
>Fred,
>
>That's true, but the combined time of getting on my back and removing two
>nuts and two bolts over the life of the A/C is probably less than the time
>it would take to install the release assembly in the first place. Not
>installing it also saves a little weight and frees up some panel space.
>
>Just another point of view.
>-Scott N506RV
Scott,
... those two particular bolts (the ones ground with a 'bullet'
tip) seem hard to remove even from above with the forward top skin off!
Access from below probably would be very limited by the usual positioning
of the radio stack.
One option I'm considering is to put in the release mechanism, but
to shorten it's handle to be just in front of the F-688, i.e., _behind_ the
instrument panel. This way it would be considered a canopy removal aid,
not a pilot-operable jettison device, and would potentially free up a
little panel space. With the canopy raised, the handle would be accessible
by reaching over the panel (don't try this on a slider ...:^).
This option would also eliminate the "getting on my back"
requirement for canopy removal for maintenance.
QUESTION:
Do any of you guys already flying have any comments on this option??
... thanks in advance ...
Gil (why put the handle on the panel?) Alexander
RV6A (tip-up), #20701
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Question about TT construction, specifically the spar:
The trim tab spar angle is bent at a 90 deg angle on each "flange". The trim
tab is not a perfect rectangle, so the spar needs a bend to get the "flange"
to align with the skin. Am I right? How did you bend it? I'm hesistant to
use a hand tool, and am inclined to use a mallet and form.
Any suggestions?
Jon Scholl
bcg007(at)aol.com
RV6 Emp ALMOST Done
Wing$ on order
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: 6 Canopy gas struts--jetison |
Bob Moore Says:
> Read FAR Part 1 for the definition of crewmember -- pretty broad.
Pretty broad, now that's a definition of crew member I can get behind! :-)
A bit sexist, but this IS the FAA we're talking about.
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Breakers et. als. |
> >BTW, how much power might the coils of a latching relay system take up?
>
> How would you like to use latching relays????
Well, people were talking about using them to control things like the trim and
autopilot. It's a neat idea that you could stop a runaway trim by simply
entering opposite trim. A wiring diagram would be helpful, and some info on
choosing the right diode for a particular coil.
Here's another thought I just had. If you have enough of an electrical load
that your alternator is putting out a whole 60 amps, how much horsepower is
that stealing from your engine?
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JIM SCHMIDT <JIM.SCHMIDT(at)mail.mei.com> |
| Subject: | New Archive Utility & CDROM... -Reply |
I would use the 32 bit win95 version.
Not sure I would want the CD rom at that price.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Arter <arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu> |
Jon, hi
I just did this last Sunday. You are right, it needs to be bent to fit the
skin. On the RV-8, the skin is prepunched along the edges, so you have to
bend it so it conforms to the tapered shape as well as the hole pattern. I
used the vise and hand seamer, going back and forth over it several times
before I got it right. The spar was too long to fit in my el-cheapo brake
or I would have used that. You could make a form, but it's thin and bends
easily with the hand seamer.
Phil
arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu
>Question about TT construction, specifically the spar:
>
>The trim tab spar angle is bent at a 90 deg angle on each "flange". The trim
>tab is not a perfect rectangle, so the spar needs a bend to get the "flange"
>to align with the skin. Am I right? How did you bend it? I'm hesistant to
>use a hand tool, and am inclined to use a mallet and form.
>
>Any suggestions?
>
>Jon Scholl
>bcg007(at)aol.com
>RV6 Emp ALMOST Done
>Wing$ on order
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
NAME: Charles Fink
"N" NUMBER: N548CF
E-MAIL ADDRESS:chfink(at)envc.sandia.com
MODEL: RV-6
DATE FINISHED: March 96
TOTAL TIME: 50 hr.
ENGINE: 0-320-A2B, 150 hp
PROP: Sterba 68X70
CANOPY: Tilt-up
STARTER: Stock Lyc
ALTERNATOR: Motorola
VOLT. REG.: Van's adjustable
BATTERY: Concorde 25RG
EXHAUST: High Country, 4 Pipe
ELEVATOR TRIM: Manual
FLAPS: Manual
BRAKES: Left side only
TIRE PRESSURE: 35 psi
PANEL: Basic VFR, no gyros, RMI micro
encoder, Manifold Pressure, T&B
LIGHTING: custom
PAINT: Ditzler, Delstar
INTERIOR: custom (my own)
INSURANCE: National
OTHER (MISC):
PROBLEMS: minor glitches
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
Re Bird Strike.
I am still pondering over the phrase :
I think the "wings level" while turning final at 200 mph probably
completely confused the bird.
John.
Still doing the wiring.RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
| Subject: | FS: LYCOMINGS: 160 HP $2500-$5500 |
160 Lycoming ponys!
A 0-320-H2AD "T" Mod. TBO on this engine is 2800 Hours! TSMOH now is
2853 and it is running clean and dry. (Still on plane!) Throw some
rings and bearings in this baby and have a terrific homebuilt airplane
engine for peanuts! It's complete with original log. $5500
I have a 0-320-H2AD From a 1976 Cessna 172. It's a bare engine
without any accessories, but the price is right: $2500 I don't have
the logbook but there is a 50-50 chance it will turn up. The crank
alone is worth what I'm asking. You could overhaul it yourself and
have a great engine or trade it off for stuff you want! $2500 (I have
3 of these)
Cash and carry, no deals or trades.
Bill Nash 619 749 0239 (Near San Diego, CA.)
(For other aviation deals, send an email messge to infobot(at)pdsig.com
for a directory by auto-response email!)
Telephone Payment Clearings, Inc
Phone: 619 749 7049
Fax: 619 749 6384
BBS: 619 749 2741
Info-file: telpay(at)pdsig.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cliffm(at)nbserv1.dseg.ti.com (Clifford J Moore Jr) |
| Subject: | alternator power |
Concerning .."If you have enough of an electrical load
that your alternator is putting out a whole 60 amps, how much horsepower is
that stealing from your engine?"
A good first guess is:
60amps x 14 volts = 840 watts
______________________________ = 2.3 hp
745.7 watts per hp x alt. eff.(0.50 ?)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 6A Tip-up canopy questions |
Panel space was my biggest gripe regarding the quick release handle. I
redesigned the mechanism so the handle is located on a small sub-panel
beneath the main instrument panel. It took very little additional work and
the weight penalty is not even worth discussion. I've flown my plane for
four years now and since the first flight have removed the canopy about a
half dozen times. If I were to do it again I would do the same thing. If
your interested in my modification send me a direct e-mail and I'll give you
an in-depth description.
Rick McBride
RICKRV6(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | mechanical rudder trim |
Well, here is one of the old timers asking for info on a simple
mechanical rudder trim for an RV-6. After flying my RV-6 for 800
hrs I have decided to install a simple rudder trim somehow hooked
up to the rudder cables. Going through the RV-LIST archive files
I saw there is an article on this in one of James Cones MN. wing
newsletters hopefully I can get this from him, but just wondered if
anyone else has tried this and am open to any thoughts and
info out there. Thanks.
Jerry
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) (Hillsboro,
OR)
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: 6A Tip-up canopy questions |
>>>> The only reason I see for the ability to jettison the canopy is if you were
>>>> planning on getting out after structural failure during aerobatics.
>>>>
>>>> -Scott N506RV
>>>
>>> The release mechanism also allows for easy repairs on the canopy.....
>>>
>>>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
>>>wstucklen(at)aol.com
>>
>>Fred,
>>
>>That's true, but the combined time of getting on my back and removing two
>>nuts and two bolts over the life of the A/C is probably less than the time
>>it would take to install the release assembly in the first place. Not
>>installing it also saves a little weight and frees up some panel space.
>>
>>Just another point of view.
>>-Scott N506RV
>
>
>
>QUESTION:
> Do any of you guys already flying have any comments on this option??
>
>
> ... thanks in advance ...
>
> Gil (why put the handle on the panel?) Alexander
>
>RV6A (tip-up), #20701
>gil(at)rassp.hac.com
>
>
>
I've got to get into this----- There is NO WAY that I would ever want to
lay on my back and try to remove bolts from the front of the canopy hinge.
In fact, I don't think I've ever been able to see much less reach those
bolts. I pray and knock on wood that I never have to replace the mode C
encoder; it's mounted on the left panel to firewall brace.
I have removed my canopy at least 10 times in the last 6 years. Sometimes
it's just handier to have it out of the way when I'm working inside the
aircraft or on the back of the panel.
Of course, some of my reluctance to crawl under the panel may be due to my
generous proportions. I still challenge even the smallest of us to honestly
say that they enjoy laying with the spar under the small of your back as
they reach up into the 'top' of the fuselage trying to find that wire or
bolt. It ain't fun; not by a long shot.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
I AM ALSO BUILDING AN RV-8 AND JUST SCREWED UP THE FIRST TRIM TAB. I AM GLAD
TO LEARN HOW TO BEND THE SPAR. TONIGHT IS MY FIRST NIGHT ON THE LIST. ONE
OTHER THING-- CAN ANY ONE GIVE SOME GUIDANCE ON WORKING WITH FIBERGLASS (WING
TIPS)? I WOULD LIKE TO GET RID OF THE LINE BETWEEN THE FIBERGLASS TIP AND
THE WING! ANY HELP WOULD BE GREAT.
JOHN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: mechanical rudder trim |
>Well, here is one of the old timers asking for info on a simple
>mechanical rudder trim for an RV-6. After flying my RV-6 for 800
>hrs I have decided to install a simple rudder trim somehow hooked
>up to the rudder cables. Going through the RV-LIST archive files
>I saw there is an article on this in one of James Cones MN. wing
>newsletters hopefully I can get this from him, but just wondered if
>anyone else has tried this and am open to any thoughts and
>info out there. Thanks.
>Jerry
>--
>Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) (Hillsboro,
>OR)
>jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
>
>
Jerry,
How about building a rudder trim similar to Van's aileron trim; spring
biased with a simple lever to set the trim?
You could clamp onto the cable just forward of the left spar bulkhead and
install a lever there to adjust for rudder trim.
Should be able to keep it simple, light and cheap that way.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
FYI the electric trim servo mounting brackets were mismarked (right and
left swapped) in my 8 kit too. I wonder how often that occurs? Took me
15 minutes of staring at the plans to realize what was wrong.
>----------
>From:
> aol.com!EBundy2620(at)matronics.com[SMTP:aol.com!EBundy2620(at)matronics.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 1996 8:36 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: F6111
>
>
><< My F6111 parts don't seem to come anywhere near close to being the right
> shape. As I read the plans for the sliding canopy, the bottom of the F6111
> aligns with the top of the F624. It is supposed to lay flush against the
> inside of the skin, with the top of the F6111 against th F606 bulkhead.
>
> In this position, there is a gap of about an inch between the skin and the
> middle of the F6111.
>
> Has anyone else had this experience? >>
>
>Yes. Try swapping the left and right 6111's. Mine were marked wrong and had
>the same problem. I happened to visit the factory when I was having that
>problem and I mentioned it to Tom. His response was "Hmm, I wonder how many
>went out like that." He also mentioned that they aren't structural, and they
>only keep some goober from denting the skin if he happens to lean on it
>there.
>
>Ed Bundy
>ebundy2620(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Electric Trim Disconnect |
>BTW, how much power might the coils of a latching relay
>system take up?
How would you like to use latching relays????
>Well, people were talking about using them to control
>things like the trim and autopilot. It's a neat idea
>that you could stop a runaway trim by simply
>entering opposite trim.
Most trim popular trim systems out there with
"relay decks" (Mac trim servos for example) will
stop when commanded to move in a direction opposite
to a "stuck" relay. These trim motors take so
very little current, the probability of welding
a trim relay is essentially zero. A fault in a
wire bundle is more likely to cause problems but
then, opposite trim command will halt the motor
as long as opposite command is held.
The best way to deal with runaway electric
flight controls is with relay wired up to
latch when a button is pressed. The relay
coil is supplied with ground via normally
closed pushbutton on wheel or stick. All
motor power to trim system and autopilot
are routed through normally open contacts
of the same relay. A simple depression of
the wheel mounted "disconnect" button removes
power from all elecrically driven flight
controls. Further, power will not return
without a deliberate act of pressing the
"on" button which relatches the relay. No
special relay is required.
>A diagram would be helpful, and some info on choosing the
>right diode for a particular coil.
A #10 SASE
mailed to 6936 Bainbridge Road, Wichita,
KS, 67226-1008 will get you a schematic.
Write "Trim disconnect circuit" on the back
of the envelope. I'll whip up an article
on the matter for a future issue of KAB.
>Here's another thought I just had. If you have enough
>of an electrical load that your alternator is putting
>out a whole 60 amps, how much horsepower is that
>stealing from your engine?
60 amps times 14 volts = 840 watts
840 watts/746 watts per h.p. = 1.13 h.p.
1.13 h.p. / .6 efficiency = 1.9 h.p.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
*********************************
* Go ahead, make my day . . . *
* Prove me wrong. *
*********************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Nuckolls to Join KAB |
Just before I left for CA last week, I told everyone that
I might have an announcement to make when I got back.
Well . . .
When we shipped revision 6 to the AeroElectric Connection,
I included the last Hot Flash newsletter from the 'Connection.
I told readers that we were going to start a new, no nonsense,
technorag called "TechTips for Amateur Airplane Builders."
The motiviation for this effort was driven by the fact that
our favorite mags from years past seem to have forgotten
those who most need their services!
TechTips was to become the periodical publishing arm of
Medicine River Press replacing our not-so-periodical Hot Flash
newsletters. Its charter was to carry nothing but articles
on how to build and service airplanes. No completion articles,
no warbird restoration stories, etc.
I didn't NEED another project but there seemed to be a need
for the product. I met last week with Charlie Coyne who is
several issues into his own publishing venture called Kit
Aircraft Builder. I've written several articles for Charlie
and we've exchanged a number of phone calls and e-mail letters.
We came to an agreement on, for lack of a better term, a
courtship of our respective efforts. Here's the deal:
I'll join Charlie's staff as a regular contributing editor to
KAB. My tasks for each issue will include a feature article
and a column with technical tidbits and question/answer service
for readers. In return, Charlie will help us promote the
AeroElectric Connection's publishing, parts services and
weekend seminars. Further, we may show up at a few more
shows sharing a booth. Neither of us has to dig into not-
so-deep pockets but we are fairly confident of realizing
a good return on "sweat equity."
Those who are already subscribers to the AeroElectric
Connection will get a sample copy of KAB sometime around
October 10. The mailing will include an explanation of
plans for the book. Many folk have paid in advance for
future updates which are still going to happen. In fact,
having relieved myself of mechanics of printing and
mailing a periodical, I can now concentrate on filling
out the book . . . it needs several more chapters and
some serious updating to the first 5 chapters.
If you're not an AEC subscriber, you might drop a line
to Charlie at 102125,2540(at)compuserve.com and twist
his arm for a sample issue of KAB. Charlie, if you're
listening, you might hop in here and introduce yourself
and add any appropriate comments.
The future of personally owned performance airplanes is
with kit builders. CBP&M are never going to be the kind
of players they were back when 12,000+ airplanes a year
were being built in Wichita alone. It's important that
we bootstrap ourselves up to a level of competence
EXCEEDING anything that's been done in the past. It can
be accomplished with functioning networks for sharing
useful information. The 'net is one such vehicle. If
Charlie and I do our jobs, KAB and AEC will take up
positions at the head of the pack in tech pubs arena.
We would welcome and appreciate your support; but most
important, your critical review.
Watch this space . . .
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
*********************************
* Go ahead, make my day . . . *
* Prove me wrong. *
*********************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | The Smiths <kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com> |
You wrote:" CAN ANY ONE GIVE SOME GUIDANCE ON WORKING WITH FIBERGLASS
(WING TIPS)? I WOULD LIKE TO GET RID OF THE LINE BETWEEN THE FIBERGLASS
TIP AND THE WING! ANY HELP WOULD BE GREAT."
Contrary to the opinions of some on this list, composites are easy to
work with, and hard to make great. The receipe is like this:
Gougeon Epoxy and pump set up, by the quart of reisin, is sticky,
infalible, and will cure at any temp (eventually) and at 90 deg suddenly.
One squirt of reisin, one squirt hardner (the pumps are matched to mixing
ratios), stir X 60, add "microlite" filler until the mix is stiffer than
peanut buttter, spread it on to clean and primed aluminum and sanded and
de-dusted glass, spread thin as close to final thickness as possible.
The stuff is LIGHT, sands easily, takes paint and sets up for sanding in
an hour or less with a heat gun, otherwise overnight at 50 deg. or more.
Jan Gougeon is finishing up an RV4, about to test fly when I saw him at
OSH. THey have an 800 number and ship from their plant in Bay City.
THeir FREE literature is a great primer.
If this is all you want to do, there is enough stuff in their sampler kit
to do the whole job.
Ken Smith, kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com, RV6 empanage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 6 Canopy gas struts--jetison |
| From: | Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)indirect.com> |
Previously written:
>The FARs DO NOT require parachutes if the
>pilot is the only occupant of the aircraft nor if there are only crew-
>members aboard. Parachutes for all aerobatics seems to be just another
>"Old Pilot's Wives Story".
Sorry, but there is no future in this approach. If you look to the FARs
for common sense,or for guidance to do the right thing, you're missing
the big picture. If you intend to do serious acro, or a lot of just fun
acro for that matter, you should have some silk strapped to your back. If
you don't do acro - different story.
With the RV series' low corner velocity airspeed, I guarantee I can build
up some smash and rip the wings off any RV airplane. I am sure no one
plans to tear their airplane apart, but one pooched manuver on a bad day
can do the trick. That's what the parachute is for.
I don't buy the argument "It's just me in the airplane - no one but me
will get killed." Why get killed when you can spend half of what you
paid for that GPS (that you can't figure out how to use) on a parachute?
I'd rather be cryin' in my beer over the wrecked airplane I bailed out of
than have my wife cryin' over me still in it. (She would be cryin', right
guys?)
I think my approach builds more "old" pilots, and keeps those "old
pilots' wives" happier.
That's my nickel's worth.
Mike Kukulski (kukulski(at)indirect.com)
RV-4 N96MK, finishing up fiberglass wingtips/position light installation
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FS: LYCOMINGS: 160 HP $2500-$5500 |
| From: | Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)indirect.com> |
Is it just me or am I seeing a trend away from the occassional personnal
ad on the list for a garage sale/ extra part or engine sale/ useful
source reference to what smacks of a commercial venture? Reference the
recent posting below. If no one else minds, I'll clam up.
Mike Kukulski (kukulski(at)indirect.com)
RV-4 N96MK, wingtip/position light installation
>160 Lycoming ponys!
>
>A 0-320-H2AD "T" Mod. TBO on this engine is 2800 Hours! TSMOH now is
>2853 and it is running clean and dry. (Still on plane!) Throw some
>rings and bearings in this baby and have a terrific homebuilt airplane
>engine for peanuts! It's complete with original log. $5500
>
>I have a 0-320-H2AD From a 1976 Cessna 172. It's a bare engine
>without any accessories, but the price is right: $2500 I don't have
>the logbook but there is a 50-50 chance it will turn up. The crank
>alone is worth what I'm asking. You could overhaul it yourself and
>have a great engine or trade it off for stuff you want! $2500 (I have
>3 of these)
>
>Cash and carry, no deals or trades.
>
>Bill Nash 619 749 0239 (Near San Diego, CA.)
>
>(For other aviation deals, send an email messge to infobot(at)pdsig.com
>for a directory by auto-response email!)
>
>
>Telephone Payment Clearings, Inc
>Phone: 619 749 7049
>Fax: 619 749 6384
>BBS: 619 749 2741
>Info-file: telpay(at)pdsig.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV List: RV6 vs RV6A |
OK, thanks to those of you who responded to my earlier post. Still would
like more input if anyone has anything to offer. Now, like I mentioned in my
earlier post, I was looking for info for a friend who is going to build a RV6
(unless he changed his mind to a 6A), well tonight he says he's again
considering the Tri gear. He flies both taildragger and tri (actually flies
anything he gets his hands on.) So he says find out what the RV public
thinks of their choice. Are you happy with what you chose? And why did you
choose it? He needs to hurry up and make up his mind if he wants to get
started by Xmas!
Thanks
Angela (still researching!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Trim Disconnect |
Maybe I am missing something about all this talk about a trim
disconnect. What is wrong with just having the trim connected
to a simple on/off switch on the panel so if the trim starts to run
away simply disconnect with the on/off switch? I have my elec. trim
connected to one of my Potter Brumfield breaker switches and it work
fine
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
<< Bill,
Fred was not attempting to land, he was initiating a high speed pass.
Rick McBride >>
Correction Rick,
He almost terminated a high speed pass. :-)
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Trim Disconnect |
Bob,
Do you pull that 1.9 horsepower when you're idling around with nothing
turned on? That is does the alternator's mechanical load depend on the
electrical load or is it a 2 horsepower parasite all the time?
Leo Davies
6A Fuselage Rear Skins
>
>>Here's another thought I just had. If you have enough
>>of an electrical load that your alternator is putting
>>out a whole 60 amps, how much horsepower is that
>>stealing from your engine?
>
> 60 amps times 14 volts = 840 watts
>
> 840 watts/746 watts per h.p. = 1.13 h.p.
>
> 1.13 h.p. / .6 efficiency = 1.9 h.p.
>
>
>
> Bob . . .
> AeroElectric Connection
>
> *********************************
> * Go ahead, make my day . . . *
> * Prove me wrong. *
> *********************************
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Variable pitch propellers |
<< Hi Jim....
Expound upon your electric prop..... esp, what maximum rated horsepower do
they manufacture?... how bout pusher versions?
Denny k8do(at)aol.com
>>
Hi Denny,
I think I answered most of the questions relative to the RV's in my answer to
the list.
The largest aircraft engine I know of that is presently using the prop is a
Lycoming O-720 of 400 Hp. It is using a three bladed prop.
I am using the pusher prop blades on my RV-3. Of course, the LOM engine,
being Europian, turns the opposite direct from the Lycoming, so it does pull
the RV-3 properly.
If you have any other questions, please feel free to write.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Maldwyn Price <mal(at)dial.pipex.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Breakers et. als. |
Richard Chandler wrote:
>
> > >BTW, how much power might the coils of a latching relay system take up?
> >
> > How would you like to use latching relays????
>
> Well, people were talking about using them to control things like the trim and
> autopilot. It's a neat idea that you could stop a runaway trim by simply
> entering opposite trim. A wiring diagram would be helpful, and some info on
> choosing the right diode for a particular coil.
>
> Here's another thought I just had. If you have enough of an electrical load
> that your alternator is putting out a whole 60 amps, how much horsepower is
> that stealing from your engine?
>
> --
> "Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
> scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
> -- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
> "Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
60 amps x 12 Volts = 720 watts
1HP is (I think) defined as 550 Watts
I seem to remember from college days that alternators are usually about
60% efficient so I would estimate you are losing between 2.5 and 3 HP
regards
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: FS: LYCOMINGS: 160 HP $2500-$5500 |
You wrote:
>
>Is it just me or am I seeing a trend away from the occassional personnal
>ad on the list for a garage sale/ extra part or engine sale/ useful
>source reference to what smacks of a commercial venture? Reference the
>recent posting below. If no one else minds, I'll clam up.
>
>Mike Kukulski (kukulski(at)indirect.com)
>RV-4 N96MK, wingtip/position light installation
>
>>160 Lycoming ponys!
>>
<>
>>Cash and carry, no deals or trades.
>>
>>Bill Nash 619 749 0239 (Near San Diego, CA.)
>>
>>(For other aviation deals, send an email messge to infobot(at)pdsig.com
>>for a directory by auto-response email!)
>>
>>
>>Telephone Payment Clearings, Inc
Yes, I personally think this one seems to be 'testing the envolope' and has
just about gone outside of it. I think very much of this stuff will cause our
archive to go exponential, to say nothing of our own message boxes. Other
opinions?
Best regards,
Bill Costello
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 | Reserved N97WC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward A. Seay (423)751-7343" <edward.a.seay(at)tva.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: list problem for me |
--Boundary-1967348-0-0
Just be glad you are not on the list trying to get off.
___^___
|
|
_________________
O O ( ) O O
/ \
o o
Ed Seay eseay(at)tva.gov
--Boundary-1967348-0-0
From:"Rick Osgood "
Subject: Re: RV-List: list problem for me
baldcom.net!mailman(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> I have subscribed to the list 2 times now and am not receiving any mail.
> can someone have someone check to see if the list is still functioning?
> thanks Judd
Your post came thru OK
Rick
--Boundary-1967348-0-0--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DerFlieger(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 6A Tip-up canopy questions |
<< The release mechanism also allows for easy repairs on the canopy.....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen(at)aol.com >>
I can vouch for that, having had first hand experience. And, it's not all
that hard to install since the plans are pretty good in that area.
Jim Stugart
DerFlieger(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 6A Tip-up canopy questions |
<< >Fred,
>
>That's true, but the combined time of getting on my back and removing two
>nuts and two bolts over the life of the A/C is probably less than the time
>it would take to install the release assembly in the first place. Not
>installing it also saves a little weight and frees up some panel space.
>
>Just another point of view.
>-Scott N506RV
Scott,
... those two particular bolts (the ones ground with a 'bullet'
tip) seem hard to remove even from above with the forward top skin off!
Access from below probably would be very limited by the usual positioning
of the radio stack.
One option I'm considering is to put in the release mechanism, but
to shorten it's handle to be just in front of the F-688, i.e., _behind_ the
instrument panel. This way it would be considered a canopy removal aid,
not a pilot-operable jettison device, and would potentially free up a
little panel space. With the canopy raised, the handle would be accessible
by reaching over the panel (don't try this on a slider ...:^).
This option would also eliminate the "getting on my back"
requirement for canopy removal for maintenance.
QUESTION:
Do any of you guys already flying have any comments on this option??
... thanks in advance ...
Gil (why put the handle on the panel?) Alexander
RV6A (tip-up), #20701
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
>>
Gil:
What I did was extend the WD-619 shaft weldment down to the bottom edge
of the F-668 sub panel. I put another nylon bearing block on the bottom edge
of the F-668 panel to further support it. I then the WD-618 weldment on the
end of this shaft. A removeable pin throught the end of this part into the
bottom edge of the F-668 subpanel keeps the canopy axis pins in place. The
result is an easy method of popping the canopy without the need to get up
under the panel, and it doesn't utilize any panel space.
It stil requires help to get the canopy on again, but I can easily remove
it myself.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: 6A Tip-up canopy questions |
> One option I'm considering is to put in the release mechanism,
but
t>o shorten it's handle to be just in front of the F-688, i.e.,
_behind_ the
i>nstrument panel. This way it would be considered a canopy removal
aid,
>not a pilot-operable jettison device, and would potentially free up a
l>ittle panel space. With the canopy raised, the handle would be
accessible
>by reaching over the panel (don't try this on a slider ...:^).
Instead of the canopy release handle supplied with the kit, I've
installed a T handle cable that I've located on the centre console out
of the way. It makes getting the canopy back a little tricky, but
eliminates it from the panel.
Ken
RV6A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WStucklen(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 6A Tip-up canopy questions |
<<
Of course, some of my reluctance to crawl under the panel may be due to my
generous proportions. I still challenge even the smallest of us to honestly
say that they enjoy laying with the spar under the small of your back as
they reach up into the 'top' of the fuselage trying to find that wire or
bolt. It ain't fun; not by a long shot.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com >>
John:
If I had to do it over again, I would definately construct a removeable
panel for all the reasons you've just stated.
But since I didn't, I've found that putting a seatback on the floor in
front of the rudder peddles helps the back problems a lot. Also, take the
seat backupright out, but leave the bottom cushion in place. It doesn't
result in a flat surface, but it's a lot better.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Moore <bobmoore(at)mail.wwd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6 Canopy gas struts--jetison |
Mike Kukulski wrote:
>
> Previously written:
>
> >The FARs DO NOT require parachutes if the
> >pilot is the only occupant of the aircraft nor if there are only crew-
> >members aboard. Parachutes for all aerobatics seems to be just another
> >"Old Pilot's Wives Story".
>
> Sorry, but there is no future in this approach. If you look to the FARs
> for common sense,or for guidance to do the right thing, you're missing
> the big picture.
Mike ----
My post was simply in response to a previous poster who obviously
misquoted the FARs. It had no bearing on intelligent behavior.
I just don't like to see misinformation spread as if it were gospel.
BTW-- In contemplating an RV, I would like to know IF there have been
any in-flight break-ups?
Bob Moore
ATP ASEMEL
CFIA CFII
USN/PANAM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: FS: LYCOMINGS: 160 HP $2500-$5500 |
>Is it just me or am I seeing a trend away from the occassional personnal
>ad on the list for a garage sale/ extra part or engine sale/ useful
>source reference to what smacks of a commercial venture? Reference the
>recent posting below. If no one else minds, I'll clam up.
>
>Mike Kukulski (kukulski(at)indirect.com)
>RV-4 N96MK, wingtip/position light installation
Mike: I was thinking the same thing. I don't know these people, don't have
an axe to grind etc.etc. but I'd say it's buyer beware on deals like this.
Make
SURE you know exactly what you're getting and you are comfortable with it.
If you don't know how to evaluate used equipment find somebody that does.
Two guys in my home town bought used engines from what turned out to be
questionable sources and it cost both big money and in one case a major
inflight engine failure. In all fairness I must repeat, I have no knowledge
of the individual or the engines that are part of this post and they could
be ok, but it's buyer beware. Personally I'm no fan of the H2AD series.
New builders take note, you don't have to rush into engine deals.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG Flying 2 years+
>>160 Lycoming ponys!
>>
>>A 0-320-H2AD "T" Mod. TBO on this engine is 2800 Hours! TSMOH now is
>>2853 and it is running clean and dry. (Still on plane!) Throw some
>>rings and bearings in this baby and have a terrific homebuilt airplane
>>engine for peanuts! It's complete with original log. $5500
>>
>>I have a 0-320-H2AD From a 1976 Cessna 172. It's a bare engine
>>without any accessories, but the price is right: $2500 I don't have
>>the logbook but there is a 50-50 chance it will turn up. The crank
>>alone is worth what I'm asking. You could overhaul it yourself and
>>have a great engine or trade it off for stuff you want! $2500 (I have
>>3 of these)
>>
>>Cash and carry, no deals or trades.
>>
>>Bill Nash 619 749 0239 (Near San Diego, CA.)
>>
>>(For other aviation deals, send an email messge to infobot(at)pdsig.com
>>for a directory by auto-response email!)
>>
>>
>>Telephone Payment Clearings, Inc
>>Phone: 619 749 7049
>>Fax: 619 749 6384
>>BBS: 619 749 2741
>>Info-file: telpay(at)pdsig.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Alternator Loads |
Bob,
>Do you pull that 1.9 horsepower when you're idling around with nothing >turned
on? That is does the alternator's mechanical load depend on the >electrical load
or is it a 2 horsepower parasite all the time?
No, mechanical loads are proportional to electrical loads +
friction and windage losses which are a very small part of the
total. Average running load for day VFR (assume 10 amps) would
be on the order of 0.3 h.p.; night IFR (assume 20 amps) would
be about 0.6 h.p.
Bob . . .
Leo Davies 6A Fuselage Rear Skins > >>Here's another thought I just had. If you
have enough >>of an electrical load that your alternator is putting >>out a
whole 60 amps, how much horsepower is that >>stealing from your engine? > >
60 amps times 14 volts = 840 watts > > 840 watts/746 watts per h.p. = 1.13
h.p. > > 1.13 h.p. / .6 efficiency = 1.9 h.p. > > > > Bob . . . >
AeroElectric Connection > > ********************************* > * Go
ahead, make my day . . . * > * Prove me wrong. * >
********************************* > >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Trim Disconnect |
>Maybe I am missing something about all this talk about a trim
>disconnect. What is wrong with just having the trim connected
>to a simple on/off switch on the panel so if the trim starts
>to run away simply disconnect with the on/off switch?
>I have my elec. trim connected to one of my Potter
>Brumfield breaker switches and it work fine
> -- Jerry Springer
Jerry,
Some mild consternation is appropriate here. There's been
a lot of talk recently about stuck relays, trim runaways,
etc with forecasted actions ranging FROM looking for a breaker
to pull TO reaching under the panel to pull connectors . . .
My personal counsel is to (1) don't allow trim speeds to
exceed practical requirements. (2) don't allow trim
mechanical limits to exceed practical requirements.
(3) Find out what the consequences are of having trim
inadvertently driven to either limit. And finally,
(4) if trim runaway presents any potential for uncomfortable
flight, develop means for RAPID and EASY disconnect.
In single engine light planes, item 4 is seldom an
issue . . . it usually becomes an issue when the
airplane has both a wide speed AND c.g. range.
The last time I worked this issue in a single engine
airplane was with an A-36 Bonanza. Two place
airplane pilots are not likely to need any sort of
extra-ordinary disconnect provisions if items
(1) and (2) are satisfied.
But . . . you know how pilots are . . . we tend
to WORRY a lot . . .
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
*********************************
* Go ahead, make my day . . . *
* Prove me wrong. *
*********************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB9B0C.F549FC00
Tom,
I have attended this fly-in for the past few years and found it okay. I =
live about an hour away from Marion ( Columbus, Ohio) so getting their =
is no big deal. I don't think I would travel more than 1 1/2 hrs. to it =
though. I really think it would have potential as an exceptional fly in =
if it were marketed better. Met a lot of nice folks there (as usual) and =
Cleveland tool had the mobile unit there. Hope this helps......... Al =
prober(at)iwaynet.net=20
----------
From: Thomas N. Martin[SMTP:CompuServe.COM!103212.65(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 1996 7:46 AM
Subject: RV-List: FLYIN AT MARION
There is an EAA flyin at Marion Ohio thisSaturday and Sunday. Does =
anyone know
if it is worth going to. Will there be any RVs there? Any comments?
Tom Martin
RV-4 the RAVen
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB9B0C.F549FC00
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BB9B0C.F549FC00--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 6A Tip-up canopy questions |
One option I'm considering is to put in the release mechanism, but
>to shorten it's handle to be just in front of the F-688, i.e., _behind_
the>instrument panel. This way it would be considered a canopy removal
aid,>not a pilot-operable jettison device, and would potentially free up a
>little panel space. With the canopy raised, the handle would be
accessible>by reaching over the panel (don't try this on a slider ...:^).
>This option would also eliminate the "getting on my back">requirement for
canopy removal for maintenance.
>>QUESTION:> Do any of you guys already flying have any comments on this
option??
>> ... thanks in advance ...
>> Gil (why put the handle on the panel?) Alexander
>
>RV6A (tip-up), #20701
>gil(at)rassp.hac.com
>
Gil; Instead of using Vans handle, I put a flex (bowden) cable from the
bell crank up at the pins to a T handle mounted on the upright between the
seats to the bottom of the instr. panel. It is a twist to unlock, then pull
the t handle to extract the pins. It works for me, and I don't have that
ugly handle up on the top center of the instrument panel.>
>John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
I WOULD LIKE TO GET RID OF THE LINE BETWEEN THE FIBERGLASS TIP AND
>THE WING! ANY HELP WOULD BE GREAT.
>JOHN
John; You may want to read the archives on this. There was a discussion a
few months back about the crack that usually shows up when you attempt to
'smooth' out the junction of fiberglass to metal. Seems that in most cases,
a crack shows up in the paint after a few months. It can be done, but is
not as simple as laying on filler and letting it go at that.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Power Grab |
Leo-
The power loss is based on several work variables. Loads associated with
turning any rotating mass and those associated with cutting lines of flux.
Less power is needed to turn lower mass rotors at lower speeds and the
reverse. Higher bearing friction at higher speeds and high electromagnetic
flux drag at high current demands also rob power progressively.
The lowest power is required to turn the system at idle with low current draw
and the highest is at WFO with all the goodies on.
Gary VanRemortel
Vanremog(at)aol.com
N1GV (building air box for RV-6A)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | teetime(at)flinthills.com |
>To: Tim the new RV4 builder.
>
>Welcome aboard!! First off, I must compliment you on your excellent taste
>and obvious superb judgement in choosing the RV4.
>
>The slider is not a part of the kit. You have to get plans from one of
>the few people who have done them. Van objects to the extra work involved
>and also the aesthetics. He feels the slider has to be so long to uncover
>both seats, that it detracts from the overall appearance of the airplane.
>
>Personally, I wanted one at first. Then, later, decided that it wasn't worth
>the trouble. Now, I think I like the tipover better.
>
>Good luck
>
>John Walsh(at)cpeedy.enet.dec.com
>
>John,
Is the tipover a problem during taxi or do you need the extra
ventilation at that time on hot days?
Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Timothy J. Etherington" <tjetheri(at)cca.rockwell.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Trim Disconnect |
The basic load on the alternator is dependent on the electrial load, or
actually the load on the engine depends on the electrical load. A bench test of
an alternator using an electric motor shows this real well. If you short the
alternator terminals, the electric motor can be halted.
Tim Etherington
tjetheri(at)cca.rockwell.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
Hey Jon,
I just did mine, again. I'm an officer in the "build it again club". A neat
little trick I used that made this real simple went like this:
I took my steel 2 foot carpenters square and clamped the spar flange (not
the radius) down to the work bench. Let me put that another way, I'm
sandwiching the flange between the wood and the steel rule. I took four of
the biggest C clamps I could find and clamped this whole thing down. Then
just applied pressure to the spar web with a block of wood (to evenly
distribute the pressure). You can set your elev. spar next to the TT spar (
or trailing edge spar) and get a pretty good idea of where you are.
Next, remove the spar and clamp the web of the two above mentioned spars
back to back with the flanges as even as possible. This gives you a real
good view of where you are angle-wise. Takes about five minutes and not a
wave in sight.
Hope it helps.
Eric Henson
Dana Point, CA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Reply Seperator <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
From: internet!matronics.com!aol.com!Bcg007
Subject: RV-List: Trim Tab
Date: Wednesday, September 04, 1996 2:55PM
Question about TT construction, specifically the spar:
The trim tab spar angle is bent at a 90 deg angle on each "flange". The
trim
tab is not a perfect rectangle, so the spar needs a bend to get the "flange"
to align with the skin. Am I right? How did you bend it? I'm hesistant to
use a hand tool, and am inclined to use a mallet and form.
Any suggestions?
Jon Scholl
bcg007(at)aol.com
RV6 Emp ALMOST Done
Wing$ on order
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Advertisement for LYCOMINGS |
<< Yes, I personally think this one seems to be 'testing the envolope' and
has
just about gone outside of it. I think very much of this stuff will cause
our
archive to go exponential, to say nothing of our own message boxes. Other
opinions?
Best regards,
Bill Costello >>
<< New builders take note, you don't have to rush into engine deals.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG Flying 2 years+>>
I agree with you, Bill. This is testing the limit. And a cash and carry, no
returns offer is always a very high risk.
I have the LOM mounted on my RV-3, and two Lycoming O-290's setting around,
so I don't need another engine.
However, I did pass this information on to a RV-4 builder who is looking for
an O-320, and is not on the list.
Although this has gotten into a gray area, I would like to encourage unique
items, or prices, to be brought to the attention of the list.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 6 Canopy gas struts--jetison |
<< BTW-- In contemplating an RV, I would like to know IF there have been
any in-flight break-ups?
Bob Moore
ATP ASEMEL
CFIA CFII
USN/PANAM
>>
I haven't heard of any RV-4, or RV-6 in-flight break-ups on aircraft built to
the plans. Anyone hear anything different??
I have heard of in-flight break-ups of the RV-3. I heard that Van has
presently stopped marketing/selling the RV-3 kit, and is looking at a
modification to the wing spar. There is a "service letter" issued by Van
limiting the RV-3 to 4.4 g's, and no aerobatics.
The number of different configurations of wing spar design and fuel tank
locations just complicates this farther. I believe the following
combinations are possible.
1. Original 1/8" thk main spar segments, 1/8" thk rear spar plate, 1/8" thk
rear spar carrythrough angle, fuselage tank (.025 LE skin).
2. Original 1/8" thk main spar segments, 1/8" thk rear spar plate, 1/8" thk
rear spar carrythrough angle, wing tanks (.032 LE tank skin).
3. Original 1/8" thk main spar segments, 1/4" thk rear spar plate, 1/8" thk
rear spar carrythrough angle with additional 1/8" thk plate, fuselage tank.
(RV-3A config.)
4. Original 1/8" thk main spar segments, 1/4" thk rear spar plate, 1/8" thk
rear spar carrythrough angle with additional 1/8" thk plate, wing tanks.
(RV-3A config.)
5. Original 1/8" thk main spar segments, 1/4" thk rear spar plate, 3/16" thk
rear spar carrythrough angle, fuselage tank. (RV-3A config)
6. Original 1/8" thk main spar segments, 1/4" thk rear spar plate, 3/16" thk
rear spar carrythrough angle, wing tanks. (RV-3A config)
7. 1/8" and 3/16" thk main spar segments, 1/4" thk rear spar plate, 3/16" thk
rear spar carrythrough angle, fuselage tank. (Plans revision after RV-4
introduced)
8. 1/8" and 3/16" thk main spar segments, 1/4" thk rear spar plate, 3/16" thk
rear spar carrythrough angle, wing tanks. (Plans revision after RV-4
introduced.)
And then there is my oddball RV-3. Configration number 4 with a single piece
.032 leading edge (LE) skin riveted in place. {The LE tank skin and spar web
edge distance only allowed for the 3/32 rivets :-). }
Since I don't like to change Van's design, I used his fuselage tank fuel cap
design (contoured to match the radius of the wing skin. Less Drag).
(While I don't like to change Van's design, I do process the assembly
different for less drag.)
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, CA. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: 6 Canopy gas struts--jetison |
>>SNIP
>BTW-- In contemplating an RV, I would like to know IF there have been
>any in-flight break-ups?
>
>Bob Moore
Bob:
I was talking to Bill Bennedict (Gen.Mgr. Vans Aircraft in case you didn't
know) at Oshkosh this year and the question of inflight breakups came up. He
stated that there has never been an RV-4 or 6 have an inflight airframe
failure. Considering the number flying and the potential variables that come
from homebuilts I thinks that's a hell of a record. There have been some
RV-3's that have had some problems but there is a fix.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net> |
| Subject: | Re: alternator power |
Clifford J Moore Jr wrote:
>
> Concerning .."If you have enough of an electrical load
> that your alternator is putting out a whole 60 amps, how much horsepower is
> that stealing from your engine?"
>
> A good first guess is:
>
> 60amps x 14 volts = 840 watts
> ______________________________ = 2.3 hp
> 745.7 watts per hp x alt. eff.(0.50 ?)I seem to recall that an automotive alternator
will take up to 14 h.p to
drive at full load..anybody want to comment?
Ed Cole
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
I have a new Lycoming with the regular starter, and I can't get the starter
gear to pop back into the housing.
A couple of months ago when I was installing the engine I rotated the starter
gear by hand and it came forward out of the housing and didn't want to go
back in. I didn't worry about it, thinking that the electrics were done I
could energize the starter and it would pop back in.
Well, that isn't the case. I energized the starter a couple of times, and it
spins fine, but won't retract back into the case. Am I doing something
wrong?
Thanks,
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FS: LYCOMINGS: 160 HP $2500-$5500 |
>Mike: I was thinking the same thing. I don't know these people, don't have
>an axe to grind etc.etc. but I'd say it's buyer beware on deals like this.
>Make
>SURE you know exactly what you're getting and you are comfortable with it.
>
>Regards:
>Rusty Gossard
>N47RG Flying 2 years+
>
I've bought a used rivet gun from this guy. I'd be leery with anything larger.
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sierchio(at)groucho.boi.noaa.gov |
After seeing all the flak that was generated over the last
torque question that was raised, I hesitated before making this
post. But, I've searched the archives and still need help.
I've never owned a torque wrench and in fact, have never used one.
I want to buy one and I've read many times on this list, that "the
only expensive tool is a cheap tool". A friend has loaned me his
Craftsman, beam type wrench which is graduated in 5 ft-lb
increments from 0 to 150 ft-lbs.
Having read Gil's post about torque values, it seems that I can
expect to use torques from 12 to 100+ in-lbs. It appears that my
loaner is inadequate for my needs.
Avery has three wrenches for sale. Their beam type ($59.00) covers
from 0 to 600 in-lbs, but the person I talked to couldn't tell me
what the smallest increment was. The other two wrenches are click
types, which cover ranges of 30 to 150 in-lbs ($125.00) and 25 to
250 in-lbs ($75.00). These last two don't cover the torques in the
lower range (12 to 30). What's a guy to do? I don't mind spending
money for the right tool, but I can't seem to find the right tool.
Anyone got any advice?
Thanks in advance,
Mike
====================================================================
Mike Sierchio
RV-6A N63MS (reserved) Just Started HS
Boise, ID sierchio(at)groucho.boi.noaa.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6 Canopy gas struts--jetison |
>
>BTW-- In contemplating an RV, I would like to know IF there have been
>any in-flight break-ups?
>
>Bob Moore
>ATP ASEMEL
>CFIA CFII
>USN/PANAM
>
Only the RV-3, no documented -4 or -6 breakups.
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Listers:
I found this on rec.aviation.homebuilt. Has anybody looked into this, have
other comments?
>ARE YOU WIRING UP A HOMEBUILT AIRCRAFT?
>
>if so, then you should investigate our new product, the EXP-BUS. This
>product can save a lot of time and money wiring up a project. For more
>information on the specific product, see our web page at
>http://www.controlvision.com.
>
>HOW DO "SOLID STATE FUSES" WORK?
>The purpose of the limiter is identical to that of the breaker, to shut
>off whenever too much current is being drawn from a particular circuit.
>Technically, the devices used are very non-linear thermistors with a
>positive temperature coefficient (PTC). When excess current is drawn, the
>PTC device heats up and becomes a poor conductor of electricity. This
>shuts down the offending circuit. These components are UL recognized, and
>manufactured by a major US component manufacturer.
>
>AN EXAMPLE
>Suppose that a wire leading to a nav light is chafing against a grounded
>metal part in a wing, such as a rib. If the light is on, and the
>insulation abrades away, the wire will intermittently or permanently short
>to ground. With a fuse, the overcurrent will blow the element in the
>fuse, before the wire can get hot and start a fire (although the spark
>could ignite fuel vapors before the fuse blows). With a breaker, the
>bimetallic element in the breaker heats up (more slowly than the fuse) and
>trips the breaker. With the solid state device, the PTC device gets hot,
>increasing it's resistance, and shutting down current flow to the nav
>lights. Actually, about 1/30th of an amp continues to flow, which is not
>enough current to heat up any wiring. The voltage drop across the PTC
>device keeps the device hot (about 100 degrees C), and the device stays
>"tripped". The load presented to the circuit by the nav lights will keep
>the device tripped even if the short is intermittant.
>
>The devices used are made to perform this function, and can do this over
>and over, thousands of times without damage. To reset the device, power
>is removed from the circuit for about 10 seconds (by switching off the nav
>light) , the device cools and switches back on, and the circuit is
>restored. If the short still exists, the device will immediatly trip
>again.
>
>We demonstrated this scenario literally hundreds of times at Oshkosh this
>year. These devices are used in automibiles and also in military
>electronics manufactured by Control Vision. No smoke and no mirrors used
>here. Using these devices, we have produced a PC board with switches
>mounted on it that replaces up to 16 fuses and circuit breakers in a small
>aircraft. Because these devices are quite inexpensive, we are able to
>offer the entire assembly for $249,. slightly less than the cost of the
>individual circuit breakers it replaces.
>
>This is not a scam, we are offering this product with a 90 day money back
>guarantee, and a 1 year warranty. A builder can save time, money, panel
>space, troubleshooting, and weight. Remember: "Simplicate and save
>weight".
>
>Email me if you have any questions:
>jay(at)controlvision.com
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scholl Jon" <scholl.jon(at)smtpgw.bcg.com> |
| Subject: | FS: LYCOMINGS: 160 HP $2500-$5500 |
I agree. No advertising. I know where to go to find parts.
Jon Scholl
RV6
bcg007(at)aol.com
_______________________________________________________________________________
You wrote:
>
>Is it just me or am I seeing a trend away from the occassional personnal
>ad on the list for a garage sale/ extra part or engine sale/ useful
>source reference to what smacks of a commercial venture? Reference the
>recent posting below. If no one else minds, I'll clam up.
>
>Mike Kukulski (kukulski(at)indirect.com)
>RV-4 N96MK, wingtip/position light installation
>
>>160 Lycoming ponys!
>>
<>
>>Cash and carry, no deals or trades.
>>
>>Bill Nash 619 749 0239 (Near San Diego, CA.)
>>
>>(For other aviation deals, send an email messge to infobot(at)pdsig.com
>>for a directory by auto-response email!)
>>
>>
>>Telephone Payment Clearings, Inc
Yes, I personally think this one seems to be 'testing the envolope' and has
just about gone outside of it. I think very much of this stuff will cause our
archive to go exponential, to say nothing of our own message boxes. Other
opinions?
Best regards,
Bill Costello
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 | Reserved N97WC
------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------
by relay.bcg.com (post.office MTA v1.9.1 ID# 244-13979) with SMTP
id AAA202 for ;
(V3.1.1)
| From: | ix.netcom.com!bcos(at)matronics.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: FS: LYCOMINGS: 160 HP $2500-$5500 |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Trim Disconnect |
> Maybe I am missing something about all this talk about a trim
> disconnect. What is wrong with just having the trim connected to a
> simple on/off switch on the panel so if the trim starts to run away
> simply disconnect with the on/off switch? I have my elec. trim
> connected to one of my Potter Brumfield breaker switches and it work
> fine
I guess part of the appeal of rigging the trim through relays on a coolie hat
on the stick is that should the trim run away, you'd catch it almost
automatically, maybe without even noticing it. You'd be say, trimming for
back stick, and the moment you notice it being a little more than you want,
you'd try to trim the other way. Normally, you'd just start trimming the
other way, but if the back stick trim were stuck somehow, so that now you're
sending both up and down signals, the relays would unlatch and stop the trim
immediately. That'll happen a lot faster than consciously realizing you're
going to get full trim unless you reach for that breaker NOW, and having to
land with Bubba sitting on your tailfeathers.
I guess the importance of this will vary with the speed of your trim motor,
and how the limits are set on the servo.
--
(Sorry Randall, no more room for the Yakko Warner quote)
Richard Chandler
RV-6: Garage bought, saving for tools and tail kit (Christmas?).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
> I WOULD LIKE TO GET RID OF THE LINE BETWEEN THE FIBERGLASS TIP AND
> THE WING! ANY HELP WOULD BE GREAT.
I can never figure out why some people want to do this. Personally I
prefer a visible seam for aesthetic reasons. After all, these are metal
airplanes, there is no way they're ever going to be "seamless". And
after looking at a lot of RVs on the flightline, of the ones that have
glassed in wingtips, a lot of them have formed cracks along the seam. I
think that unless you're experienced with fiberglass (and maybe even if
you are), you're asking for trouble in the form of ugly cracking later
if you try to glass those in. Not to mention if you ever have to take
them off.
My .02 worth anyhow.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
Editor, Home Wing Newsletter
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scholl Jon" <scholl.jon(at)smtpgw.bcg.com> |
I would stay clear of click type torques wrenches. Sometimes they fail. A
beam type forces you to read the right value and doesn't break unless abused.
I don't know the samllest incr. on the 600 in-lb wrench, or the max. torque in
RV construction. Most small bolts, however, require small torque
values--surprisingly small. You may end end up buying two wrenches, one for
samll ranges, one for larger ones.
0-150 ft-lbs is too big. You can't get enough granularity in the scale.
For use on 12-30 in-lb bolts, I would want a scale that ranged no higher than
about 40 in-lb. There are rules of thumb about how much scale you want on
either side of your torque value, but I've forgotten them. Of fthe cuff, I
pick up wrenches that give me an expected reading at least 20% into the scale,
no more than 80%. Many instruments are hard to calibrate in their extreme
readings, and so they aren't
Jon Scholl
RV6
bcg007(at)aol.com
You wrote:
> After seeing all the flak that was generated over the last
>torque question that was raised, I hesitated before making this
>post. But, I've searched the archives and still need help.
>I've never owned a torque wrench and in fact, have never used one.
>I want to buy one and I've read many times on this list, that "the
>only expensive tool is a cheap tool". A friend has loaned me his
>Craftsman, beam type wrench which is graduated in 5 ft-lb
>increments from 0 to 150 ft-lbs.
>Avery has three wrenches for sale. Their beam type ($59.00) covers
>from 0 to 600 in-lbs, but the person I talked to couldn't tell me
>what the smallest increment was. The other two wrenches are click
>types, which cover ranges of 30 to 150 in-lbs ($125.00) and 25 to
>250 in-lbs ($75.00). These last two don't cover the torques in the
>lower range (12 to 30). What's a guy to do? I don't mind spending
>money for the right tool, but I can't seem to find the right tool.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clark, James" <jclark(at)mmsmtp2.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> |
I saw this at OSHKOSH. The guy did in fact demo and say what is said
here. Looked interesting.
Don't know much more.
p.s. For what it is worth, they guy doing the demo also seemed to be on
the "up and up".
James
----------
From: r.acker[SMTP:ix.netcom.com!r.acker(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 1996 10:47 AM
Subject: RV-List: Electrics...
Listers:
I found this on rec.aviation.homebuilt. Has anybody looked into this,
have
other comments?
>ARE YOU WIRING UP A HOMEBUILT AIRCRAFT?
>
>if so, then you should investigate our new product, the EXP-BUS. This
>product can save a lot of time and money wiring up a project. For more
>information on the specific product, see our web page at
>http://www.controlvision.com.
>
>HOW DO "SOLID STATE FUSES" WORK?
>The purpose of the limiter is identical to that of the breaker, to shut
>off whenever too much current is being drawn from a particular circuit.
>Technically, the devices used are very non-linear thermistors with a
>positive temperature coefficient (PTC). When excess current is drawn,
the
>PTC device heats up and becomes a poor conductor of electricity. This
>shuts down the offending circuit. These components are UL recognized,
and
>manufactured by a major US component manufacturer.
>
>AN EXAMPLE
>Suppose that a wire leading to a nav light is chafing against a grounded
>metal part in a wing, such as a rib. If the light is on, and the
>insulation abrades away, the wire will intermittently or permanently
short
>to ground. With a fuse, the overcurrent will blow the element in the
>fuse, before the wire can get hot and start a fire (although the spark
>could ignite fuel vapors before the fuse blows). With a breaker, the
>bimetallic element in the breaker heats up (more slowly than the fuse)
and
>trips the breaker. With the solid state device, the PTC device gets
hot,
>increasing it's resistance, and shutting down current flow to the nav
>lights. Actually, about 1/30th of an amp continues to flow, which is
not
>enough current to heat up any wiring. The voltage drop across the PTC
>device keeps the device hot (about 100 degrees C), and the device stays
>"tripped". The load presented to the circuit by the nav lights will
keep
>the device tripped even if the short is intermittant.
>
>The devices used are made to perform this function, and can do this over
>and over, thousands of times without damage. To reset the device, power
>is removed from the circuit for about 10 seconds (by switching off the
nav
>light) , the device cools and switches back on, and the circuit is
>restored. If the short still exists, the device will immediatly trip
>again.
>
>We demonstrated this scenario literally hundreds of times at Oshkosh
this
>year. These devices are used in automibiles and also in military
>electronics manufactured by Control Vision. No smoke and no mirrors
used
>here. Using these devices, we have produced a PC board with switches
>mounted on it that replaces up to 16 fuses and circuit breakers in a
small
>aircraft. Because these devices are quite inexpensive, we are able to
>offer the entire assembly for $249,. slightly less than the cost of the
>individual circuit breakers it replaces.
>
>This is not a scam, we are offering this product with a 90 day money
back
>guarantee, and a 1 year warranty. A builder can save time, money, panel
>space, troubleshooting, and weight. Remember: "Simplicate and save
>weight".
>
>Email me if you have any questions:
>jay(at)controlvision.com
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrenches |
> After seeing all the flak that was generated over the last
>torque question that was raised, I hesitated before making this
>post. But, I've searched the archives and still need help.
>
*** torque wrench stuff cut ***
>Anyone got any advice?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Mike
>Mike Sierchio
Mike,
... from the archives from last year. The posting still is valid,
I bought one last year. The good write-up from LPM makes it more
interesting..... Gil A.
BTW I have since found out that a "click" torque wrench is NOT approved by
Lycoming for engine work. They specify a beam type, and require that the
final torque value be steadily held on a nut for 30 seconds.
** REPOST from 10-9-95 ***
>REGARDING Torque Wrenches
>
>Generally, there are three (3) flavors of torque wrenches. They are usually
>calibrated in :(1) foot/pounds (2) inch/pounds and (3) inch/ounces. Metric
*** lots of good stuff cut out ***
>Its great that you are asking these questions. Isn't that what the
>EXPERIMENTAL classification is all about... the development of education,
>knowledge and experience in the pursuit of personal pleasure.
Harbor Freight sells a nice one for $26 that is 1/4 inch drive and
has a range of 0 to 200 in. lbs. ( 0 to 16 ft. lbs.) that would be most
useful for a RV airframe (you would need a bigger one for engine work).
This particular one got a good write-up in "Light Plane Maintenance" a few
years ago -- somewhat of a surprise, since most of their tool reviews are
upper-level suppliers (high $$$). I gather not many firms sell 1/4 drive
torque wrenches.
It comes with a nice plastic carry case, and they advertise 4%
accuracy, good enough for our use, and sure beats the TLAR (That Looks
About Right) approach, or the tighten until it shears, and then back off
1/2 a turn, approach :^)
Gil Alexander, RV6A, #20701, N64GA (reserved)
Std. disclaimer ... just a satisfied Harbor Freight customer (800-905-5220
for a catalog) .... buy your ScotchBrite disks there for much less $$$.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael A. Pilla" <pilla(at)exit109.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrics... |
>Listers:
>
>I found this on rec.aviation.homebuilt. Has anybody looked into this, have
>other comments?
>
>
>>ARE YOU WIRING UP A HOMEBUILT AIRCRAFT?
>>
>>if so, then you should investigate our new product, the EXP-BUS. This
>>product can save a lot of time and money wiring up a project. For more
>>information on the specific product, see our web page at
>>http://www.controlvision.com.
I saw this at Oshkosh and was impressed. I am hoping that Bob Knuckols
will see this and address it. I like the ease of adding this to a side
panel to my RV-4. It appears to require only one "master" circuit breaker
and the rest are the "solid state" breakers.
Mike Pilla
pilla(at)exit109.com
(908) 566-7604
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
I don't think people should advertise stuff on the list. For example,
if I had, say, a 3" yoke for a Tatco hand squeezer for sale, in good
condition, for, oh, $50 ($65 new from Cleveland), y'know, just for the
sake of argument, I would never think of posting it here....
Randall Henderson
randall(at)edt.com
(503) 297-5045
;-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
>I have a new Lycoming with the regular starter, and I can't get the starter
>gear to pop back into the housing.
>
>A couple of months ago when I was installing the engine I rotated the starter
>gear by hand and it came forward out of the housing and didn't want to go
>back in. I didn't worry about it, thinking that the electrics were done I
>could energize the starter and it would pop back in.
>
>Well, that isn't the case. I energized the starter a couple of times, and it
>spins fine, but won't retract back into the case. Am I doing something
>wrong?
>
>Thanks,
>Ed Bundy
>ebundy2620(at)aol.com
>
>
I think it'll retract when the engine starts and runs the gear forward.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrenches |
I have a Utica 10-100 InLb. torque wrench that has worked for
everything on the RV so far. Utica is not cheap, but _very_ good.
I'm very happy with the quality and accuracy.
I had it calibrated two months ago. When I called the cal shop and
said "Utica", his first question was, "are you with an airline?".
Nuf said?
I don't have their address here, but it's on the wrench, and I'll
send it when I get home. Model # as well.
Chris
> After seeing all the flak that was generated over the last
> torque question that was raised, I hesitated before making this
> post. But, I've searched the archives and still need help.
>
> I've never owned a torque wrench and in fact, have never used one.
> I want to buy one and I've read many times on this list, that "the
> only expensive tool is a cheap tool". A friend has loaned me his
> Craftsman, beam type wrench which is graduated in 5 ft-lb
> increments from 0 to 150 ft-lbs.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrenches |
At 05:33 PM 9/5/96 GMT, rv-list(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>Avery has three wrenches for sale. Their beam type ($59.00) covers
>from 0 to 600 in-lbs, but the person I talked to couldn't tell me
>what the smallest increment was. The other two wrenches are click
>types, which cover ranges of 30 to 150 in-lbs ($125.00) and 25 to
>250 in-lbs ($75.00). These last two don't cover the torques in the
>lower range (12 to 30). What's a guy to do? I don't mind spending
>money for the right tool, but I can't seem to find the right tool.
>
>Anyone got any advice?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Mike
>====================================================================
>Mike Sierchio
>RV-6A N63MS (reserved) Just Started HS
>Boise, ID sierchio(at)groucho.boi.noaa.gov
>
>
I tried to find a torque wrench that would cover that range. I think
Snap-On has one but they want way too much for it. Don't recall the price
but it was well over $150.
If you do find a good one at a reasonable price let us all know where to
find it.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Prefab pwr dist & ctrl |
>ARE YOU WIRING UP A HOMEBUILT AIRCRAFT?
>
>if so, then you should investigate our new product, the EXP-BUS. This
>product can save a lot of time and money wiring up a project. . . .
Compared to what? You still have to cut holes for a PREDETERMINED
number of switches arranged in PREDERTERMINED order. Little chance
for customization. The assembly suggested DOES eliminate the need
for fabricating a breaker panel. So that time and space is saved.
However, fuseblocks and toggle/rocker switches can be used to
fabricate an easily customized power distribution and control
system for about $10 per switched circuit (landing lights,
nav lights, etc) and $0.50 per unswitched circuit (turn coordinator,
nav/com, etc.).
>HOW DO "SOLID STATE FUSES" WORK?
>The purpose of the limiter is identical to that of the breaker, to shut
>off whenever too much current is being drawn from a particular circuit.
>Technically, the devices used are very non-linear thermistors with a
>positive temperature coefficient (PTC). When excess current is drawn, the
>PTC device heats up and becomes a poor conductor of electricity. This
>shuts down the offending circuit. These components are UL recognized, and
>manufactured by a major US component manufacturer.
>
Generally true . . .
>AN EXAMPLE
>Suppose that a wire leading to a nav light is chafing against a grounded
>metal part in a wing, such as a rib. If the light is on, and the
>insulation abrades away, the wire will intermittently or permanently short
>to ground. With a fuse, the overcurrent will blow the element in the
>fuse, before the wire can get hot and start a fire (although the spark
>could ignite fuel vapors before the fuse blows).
True of any form of circuit protection whether fuse, breaker OR
PTC resistor.
>With a breaker, the
>bimetallic element in the breaker heats up (more slowly than the fuse) and
>trips the breaker. With the solid state device, the PTC device gets hot,
>increasing it's resistance, and shutting down current flow to the nav
>lights. Actually, about 1/30th of an amp continues to flow, which is not
>enough current to heat up any wiring. The voltage drop across the PTC
>device keeps the device hot (about 100 degrees C), and the device stays
>"tripped". The load presented to the circuit by the nav lights will keep
>the device tripped even if the short is intermittant.
>
There are some operational considerations with self-reseting devices.
An intermittant fault gets you a popped breaker or fuse; an
immediate indication of system difficulties.
>The devices used are made to perform this function, and can do this over
>and over, thousands of times without damage. To reset the device, power
>is removed from the circuit for about 10 seconds (by switching off the nav
>light) , the device cools and switches back on, and the circuit is
>restored. If the short still exists, the device will immediatly trip
>again.
An important issue here is, "how often does a breaker or fuse
get cycled in an airplane?" The answer is, "almost never." This
being the case, automatic resetability is a non-convenience.
>
>We demonstrated this scenario literally hundreds of times at Oshkosh this
>year. These devices are used in automibiles and also in military
>electronics manufactured by Control Vision. No smoke and no mirrors used
>here. Using these devices, we have produced a PC board with switches
>mounted on it that replaces up to 16 fuses and circuit breakers in a small
>aircraft. Because these devices are quite inexpensive, we are able to
>offer the entire assembly for $249,. slightly less than the cost of the
>individual circuit breakers it replaces.
>
There are breakers and then there are breakers. You can buy
thermal breakers for $3 to $30 apiece depending on size
and relative "quality." $3 breakers will protect 16 circuit
for about $50. Of the 16 circuits, perhaps 5 will have switches
for another $35 bringing the total hardware costs to $85.
Switch panels have to be fabricated no matter what. Breaker
panels can be replaced with fuseblocks which pushes the labor
close to zero. If one assumes that $20 Klixon breakers are
the standard of comparison, then yes $249 IS less than $320.
>This is not a scam, we are offering this product with a 90 day money back
>guarantee, and a 1 year warranty. A builder can save time,
A little . . .
> money,
Depends . . .
>panel space,
Compared with clasic breaker panel/
switch panel installations, yes. . . .
>troubleshooting,
Vague . . . what troubles? Popped breakers and fuses on a
finished airplane are extremely rare and to my way of thinking,
the positive indication afforded by these devices is preferable
to the intermittant condition which is masked by the self
re-setting current limiters. . . .
>and weight.
Again, compared to what? Fuse blocks and switches are the lightest,
lowest cost, and fastest installation you're going to find. Further,
it's easiest to maintain in terms of individual switch replacment
and if necessary one can replace the entire bus bar and protection
system in 10 minutes with a screwdriver and needle nose pliers.
Try that on your panel mounted breaker patch!
There are several products of this genre on the market. They
all feature higher cost, longer installation times, greater
weight and higher parts counts than the fuseblock and switch
configuration of power distribution and control. Both types I
saw at OSH were not well thought out with respect to vibration
resistance. Both dropped wire segments directly into soldered
pads of etched circuit boards with no mechanical support. Parts
counts on both products was very high. One version soldered
one edge of an etched circuit board to a row of toggle switch
connections . . . a real nightmare for replacement of a single
switch . . . With all due respect to these folk and their
entrepreneurship, I cannot recommend these products as cost
or performance effective in amateur-built airplanes.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
*******************************
* Go ahead, make my day . . . *
* Prove me wrong. *
*******************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Nowakowski <nowakod(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Fellow listers, I am building a 6. I have just completed the wing spars.
Project is slowing as it is a nice time in Vermont to fly the Champ.
The reason I am posting is because I will be taking a 2 week
business trip to the West Coast (San Jose area) and I was wondering
if there are any listers out there that would be willing to show me
their project. Or, by chance, if there are flying Rv's out there
you might be able to twist my arm and make me agree to go for a ride.
You need not clutter everyones mailbox....respond to me directly.
I will be out there from 9/23 through 10/4...thanks in advance....don
nowakod(at)worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
>> I WOULD LIKE TO GET RID OF THE LINE BETWEEN THE FIBERGLASS TIP AND
>> THE WING! ANY HELP WOULD BE GREAT.
>
>I can never figure out why some people want to do this. Personally I
>prefer a visible seam for aesthetic reasons. After all, these are metal
>airplanes, there is no way they're ever going to be "seamless". And
>after looking at a lot of RVs on the flightline, of the ones that have
>glassed in wingtips, a lot of them have formed cracks along the seam. I
>think that unless you're experienced with fiberglass (and maybe even if
>you are), you're asking for trouble in the form of ugly cracking later
>if you try to glass those in. Not to mention if you ever have to take
>them off.
>Randall Henderson, RV-6
Randall, I agree. I did fill in the gaps on all the fiberglass tips but the
wing tips. I have just over 300 hours in a year and a half and no cracks,
yet. On my second RV, I think I'll leave the gaps unfilled. If you do a
good job, I think they look fine and you'll never have to worry about the
filler cracking. In a similar vein, on my tip up canopy, I blended the
fiberglass from the canopy into the forward deck. There is now a short hair
line crack between the alum. and FG, I suppose caused by the differences in
expansion between aluminum and FG. I also fiberglassed a lip that closes
the gap between the canopy and the roll bar area. I blended in the FG into
the alum. on the canopy side skirrs. I got a long fine until really cold
weather. One cold day, I lifted the canopy and heard something crack. It
was the paint between the FG and alum. On my next RV-6, I will make a
separate fairing strip for the front of the canopy, probably out of metal
and on the aft canopy lip, I'll paint the FG lip and mask off the alum.,
then mask off the FG and paint the alum. Or, I'll take a razor blade and
cut the paint before cure if I paint the whole canopy at one time. Bob
Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Moore <bobmoore(at)mail.wwd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6 Canopy gas struts--jetison |
one.net!rust47rg(at)matronics.com wrote:
> I was talking to Bill Bennedict (Gen.Mgr. Vans Aircraft in case you didn't
> know) at Oshkosh this year and the question of inflight breakups came up. He
> stated that there has never been an RV-4 or 6 have an inflight airframe
> failure. Considering the number flying and the potential variables that come
> from homebuilts I thinks that's a hell of a record. There have been some
> RV-3's that have had some problems but there is a fix.
Thanks Rusty
I've been doing some instructing in a YAK-52 and have become accustomed to
its very rugged airframe.
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Moore <bobmoore(at)mail.wwd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6 Canopy gas struts--jetison |
aol.com!LesDrag(at)matronics.com wrote:
> I haven't heard of any RV-4, or RV-6 in-flight break-ups on aircraft built to
> the plans. Anyone hear anything different??
Thanks Jim
Thats probably more than I ever wanted to know about RV spars :)
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Moore <bobmoore(at)mail.wwd.net> |
aol.com!EBundy2620(at)matronics.com wrote:
> I have a new Lycoming with the regular starter, and I can't get the starter
> gear to pop back into the housing.
Ed,
The LYC's on our flightline do the same thing and won't go back in until
the engine starts.
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Byron Ward <award(at)tardis.svsu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Stereo/Mono headset jacks |
I'm sorry to interupt the list with this, but our local EAA chapter is in
need of an airplane. If anyone knows of a project or completed airplane
for sale, please let me know off the list at: award(at)svsu.edu
Thanks in advance.
________________________________________________________________________________
Ed,
I experienced the same thing. Once the engine starts the starter gear will
retract.
Rick McBride
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)Op.Net> |
| Subject: | Re: In-flight break-ups. |
This is in reply to the statement that there have been NO in-flight airframe
failures on Van's aircraft. I have a very high regard for Bill Bennedict,
but he may have worded his reply to Rusty Gossard as only a General Manager
can.
There are several articles in the past year's RVators that have described
and tried to explain some recent in-flight breakups. The current RV-3
factory- suggested limitation of "No Aerobatics" stems from these breakups.
RV's are fast and, if mishandled during aerobatic maneuvers or just mishandled
during any unusual attitude, can get into trouble. speed builds up quickly
and wings can depart soon after. My Cessna-150 is the same, just slower.
Additionally, the wonderful, light controls we enjoy during normal flight
can be an invitation to disaster in the hands of an inexperienced aerobatic
do-it- yourselfer.
I wonder if Bill Bennedict meant to say that there have never been any reported
in-flight breakups of RV's as long as they have been flown within their
acknowledged flight envelopes and as long as they were built to Van's (and
our) building standards.
P.S. The man I would like most to instruct me in my RV-4 is Bill Bennedict.
He gave me my first ride and in 5 minutes showed me he had a perfect grasp
of this plane. The smile is still there.
Louis Willig
larywil(at)op.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino) |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrenches |
Mike,
Beam type torque wrenches are the most accurate. Not the cheap ones you
see at sears, but a good quality one such as a snap-on (using a dial
gage)for example. I have three inch pound tourque wrenches and four ft. lb.
wrenches. The snap-on dial type beam wrenches I have go from 0-30 inch lbs.
and from 0-190. These are supposed to be the most accurate wrenches on the
market according to what I've read. I also use click type (snap-on) and
have never had one fail. The key is to keep the mechanism clean and
lubricated, and on the lower end of the scale you really have to feel for
the click. I do not like wrenches that cover long ranges, because they are
not as accurate at the ends of the scale. If you've ever visited my home
page, you know I teach auto mechanics and have been involved with high
performance for nearly 20 years. I have used craftsman torque wrenches and
did not like them. Their beam type are not very accurate, and their click
type are unreliable. I have four craftsman click type wrenches that went
bad in one year. I didn't even try to have them fixed, I bought new ones.
If you want quality, you will have to pay for it. I'm sure some of the other
quality brands out there are just as good. I hope this helps. If you have
any other questions on tools e-mail me at "jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com"
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn#80039
P.s. I hope this doesn't upset anyone with craftsman tools. I am speaking
from MY experience and do not mean to sound like I am the last word in tools. :)
> After seeing all the flak that was generated over the last
>torque question that was raised, I hesitated before making this
>post. But, I've searched the archives and still need help.
>
>I've never owned a torque wrench and in fact, have never used one.
>I want to buy one and I've read many times on this list, that "the
>only expensive tool is a cheap tool". A friend has loaned me his
>Craftsman, beam type wrench which is graduated in 5 ft-lb
>increments from 0 to 150 ft-lbs.
>
>Having read Gil's post about torque values, it seems that I can
>expect to use torques from 12 to 100+ in-lbs. It appears that my
>loaner is inadequate for my needs.
>
>Avery has three wrenches for sale. Their beam type ($59.00) covers
>from 0 to 600 in-lbs, but the person I talked to couldn't tell me
>what the smallest increment was. The other two wrenches are click
>types, which cover ranges of 30 to 150 in-lbs ($125.00) and 25 to
>250 in-lbs ($75.00). These last two don't cover the torques in the
>lower range (12 to 30). What's a guy to do? I don't mind spending
>money for the right tool, but I can't seem to find the right tool.
>
>Anyone got any advice?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Mike
>====================================================================
>Mike Sierchio
>RV-6A N63MS (reserved) Just Started HS
>Boise, ID sierchio(at)groucho.boi.noaa.gov
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
I put the whole thing in a vice and squished it until it fit.
>----------
>From: aol.com!Bcg007(at)matronics.com[SMTP:aol.com!Bcg007(at)matronics.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 1996 11:55 AM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Trim Tab
>
>Question about TT construction, specifically the spar:
>
>The trim tab spar angle is bent at a 90 deg angle on each "flange". The trim
>tab is not a perfect rectangle, so the spar needs a bend to get the "flange"
>to align with the skin. Am I right? How did you bend it? I'm hesistant to
>use a hand tool, and am inclined to use a mallet and form.
>
>Any suggestions?
>
>Jon Scholl
>bcg007(at)aol.com
>RV6 Emp ALMOST Done
>Wing$ on order
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Metal/Fiberglass and English Wheel |
> I WOULD LIKE TO GET RID OF THE LINE BETWEEN THE FIBERGLASS TIP AND
> THE WING! ANY HELP WOULD BE GREAT.
No matter how hard you try, or how long you work on it, the joint will
eventually crack thru the paint/filler. And it won't be straight, or even.
And you will have thrown away all your leftover paint and suppies, and be
sick of touch up.
Just come and look at the wingtip of my 15 meter glider where a plexi skid
joins the wing skins, and the annual war I fight with filler and paint, at
least 12 repairs to date.
Make the joint straight, narrow, visable, and once!
Bruce Patton
-6A, making fiberglass rear canopy skirts on the slider.
P.S. I made a English wheel for a total of $26 that did an excellent job of
making compound curves on the provided rear skirts. I just didn't want to
buy out the world's stock of .025 sheet trying to get two right. If anyone
is interested in how to make this super cheap wheel, let me know.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
>>I don't think people should advertise stuff on the list. For example,
>>if I had, say, a 3" yoke for a Tatco hand squeezer for sale, in good
>>condition, for, oh, $50 ($65 new from Cleveland), y'know, just for the
>>sake of argument, I would never think of posting it here....
>>
>>Randall Henderson
>>randall(at)edt.com
>>(503) 297-5045
>>
>>;-)
>>
Why in the world not? If you were to offer a good deal to someone,
something cheaper than they could buy elsewhere, why would you keep it
from them?! Force them to spend more some place else? Or "HORRORS",
engage in crass commercialism, thereby putting yourself in the same
class as other folks that sell things for a living, and whor can't
afford to pay full retail?.
The RV-list, IMHO, is for a free exchange of ideas, including things
to barter and sell in the best homebuilder tradition, in oredr to keep
building costs as low as possible. For some high-class folks, who
have their planes built for them, or who can take the position that if
it ain't new, (or expensive), it's no good. Others, like me, haven't
that kind of where-with-all and MUST hunt for the bargains.
I really appreciate it when I can find one, or like it even better
when I can offer one and share in good fortune.
I don't know how many of you would agree with me when I say that to
put this type of thing down does a dis-service to those who appreciate
offers of hard to find items and bargains. To do so risks painting
the list subscribers as those who are close minded to anything that
has the slightest taint of "crass commercialism" as defined by any
offer that any offerer stands to benefit something from and can mean
you won't hear about them because of that attitude.
I've offered my booklet on "How To Sound-Proof Light Aircraft" free
for the asking and ran into those that wont read it because as I am
the mill distributor of the special material, I might stand to make
something as a result of sales to those thatmight buy the product!
(And castigate me mightily for it as well!).
Your type of thinking needs to be rethought, because as a capitalistic
society, such beliefs are dangerous to all our well being.
bj nash RV Builder: Plans #22982
Builder of Pitts N82BN (1965)
Restorer of 5 Pillatus Porters and countless Cessna's and others.
Owner and builder of Luscombe ll, Tri-gear, (had the mfg'r production
certificate until I sold it to those guys in Oklahoma).
Present owner of Harlow PJC-10 SN-1
Those interested may receive auto-response email by sending an email
message:
Aviation directory: send email to infobot(at)pdsig.com
Article on riveting: rivets(at)pdsig.com
Text of the above mentioned booklet: soundprf(at)pdsig.com Watch out!
There might be something made available for you to buy! OHH OHH!
AIRCRAFT REMANUFACTURING
1291 E. VISTA WAY, #150
VISTA, CA. 92084 (619) 749 0239 FAX: 749 6384
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Metal/Fiberglass and English Wheel |
| From: | Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)indirect.com> |
You wrote:
>I made a English wheel for a total of $26 that did an excellent job of
>making compound curves on the provided rear skirts. I just didn't want to
>buy out the world's stock of .025 sheet trying to get two right. If anyone
>is interested in how to make this super cheap wheel, let me know.
I'm interested - probably others on the list, too.
Mike Kukulski (kukulski(at)indirect.com)
RV-4 N96MK, wingtips
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | The Smiths <kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglas filler |
Bill:
Company address and phone: Gougeon Brothers, Inc., P.O. Box 908,
Bay City, MI 48707 517-684-7286 for orders, technical assistance.
They have a web site, http://www.cris.com/~gougeon/
Their technical asistance is first class.
As to when or if they let go: watch the list for opinions. I used the
Gougeon to glue an aluminum tube to a carbon fiber and wood spar. It
held through temperatures of -20deg F, and the tube bent the spar about 2
inches due to diferential cooling shrink. The spar also deflected up to
12 inches in ten feet with no cracking. There are a variety of fillers
to cure cracking problems, and the Microlight is not the strongest--but
is among the lighest and easiest to sand. Strong fillers generally are
hard to sand but resist cracks. I'd use it, and if cracks develop, fix
the cracked areas with a colloidal silica filler, also available from
them. Sand it before it fully cures!
I hesitate to put Jan's address or phone on the net without his
permission, but I m sure e-mail to him via the co home page will get
through. westsys(at)cris.com
Ken Smith, RV 6 empanage, kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com
Filled epoxy, by the bye, is not fiberglass unless the filler is
fiberglass...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrenches |
>Avery has three wrenches for sale. Their beam type ($59.00) covers
>from 0 to 600 in-lbs, but the person I talked to couldn't tell me
>what the smallest increment was. The other two wrenches are click
>types, which cover ranges of 30 to 150 in-lbs ($125.00) and 25 to
>250 in-lbs ($75.00). These last two don't cover the torques in the
>lower range (12 to 30). What's a guy to do? I don't mind spending
>money for the right tool, but I can't seem to find the right tool.
>
>
Hi all:
I'm waiting for the $nap-On guy to stop by and deliver a 1/4" click type
torque wrench to me ( I finally finished the payments on the screwdriver set
;^) ). I'll post results ASAP.
I'm still offering the Aeroflash nav/strobe (double flash)/position kit for
$385. I hope this doesn't upset anyone.
Check six!
Mark
mlfred(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
Randall,
I think it is hard to make a fast rule. My intuition is that posts from
builders are OK and one off (or very limitied repeat) posts from
manufacturers/ retailers but continued advertising is a pain ( I may be
biased because from Australia most advertising is noise). The recent flood
from the "infobot" person is starting to get tiresome. Sorry for the clutter.
Leo Davies
>I don't think people should advertise stuff on the list. For example,
>if I had, say, a 3" yoke for a Tatco hand squeezer for sale, in good
>condition, for, oh, $50 ($65 new from Cleveland), y'know, just for the
>sake of argument, I would never think of posting it here....
>
>Randall Henderson
>randall(at)edt.com
>(503) 297-5045
>
>;-)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elon Ormsby <ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov> |
P.S. I made a English wheel (snip...) If anyone is interested in how to
make this super cheap wheel, let me know.
____________________________________
What is your email address? Or please send info to:
ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
Leo Davies wrote:
>
> Randall,
> I think it is hard to make a fast rule. My intuition is that posts from
> builders are OK and one off (or very limitied repeat) posts from
> manufacturers/ retailers but continued advertising is a pain ( I may be
> biased because from Australia most advertising is noise). The recent flood
> from the "infobot" person is starting to get tiresome. Sorry for the clutter.
>
> Leo Davies
>
> >I don't think people should advertise stuff on the list. For example,
> >if I had, say, a 3" yoke for a Tatco hand squeezer for sale, in good
> >condition, for, oh, $50 ($65 new from Cleveland), y'know, just for the
> >sake of argument, I would never think of posting it here....
> >
> >Randall Henderson
> >randall(at)edt.com
> >(503) 297-5045
> >
> >;-)
> >
> >
I think everyone is missing Randalls point here, he is really trying to
sell his 3" yoke for $50.00, right Randall :-).
I do remember Matt saying onetime that part of the reason he started
this list was to use it as a medium to sell some of the aviation
related products he is developing.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elon Ormsby <ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov> |
Mr.bj nash writes:
The RV-list, IMHO, is for a free exchange of ideas, including things to
barter and sell in the best homebuilder tradition, in oredr to keep building
costs as low as possible.
---------------------------
Your humble opinion is misguided. A free exchange of building ides, yes.
Barter and selling belong in Trade A Plane and other advertising venues.
This is a builders forum of similar minded souls pursing a individual goal
with commonality to all. To use this list as just another media extension to
hock your wares shows a complete lack of taste and respect for the
participants. However, I give you credit for your entrepreneural spirit.
Occasional selling by builders is within the spirit and give-and-take of
this list. Even commercial entities that make consistent contributions of
facts, engineering, and advice that assists us in completing a safe project
is welcome as long as the ratio of advice is greater than commercialism.
==================================
I don't know how many of you would agree with me when I say that to put this
type of thing down does a dis-service to those who appreciate offers of hard
to find items and bargains.
---------------------------------
Finding good deals can be difficult but if this list becomes an info-mercial
for everything aviation then it no longer fulfills it purpose. Maybe you
are trying to be selective and post only RV-stuff. But the dis-service will
be when other capitalists follow your example and flood the list.
==================================
Your type of thinking needs to be rethought, because as a capitalistic
society, such beliefs are dangerous to all our well being.
----------------------------------
It is unequivocal that capitalism needs to be constrained. That is why
Michael Milken went to jail time, there are anti trust laws, and a code of
Federal Regulations defining how you do business. Consistently using this
list for commercial gain is dangerous to the list's well being.
Elon
ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
>aol.com!EBundy2620(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>> I have a new Lycoming with the regular starter, and I can't get the starter
>> gear to pop back into the housing.
>
>Ed,
>
>The LYC's on our flightline do the same thing and won't go back in until
>the engine starts.
>
>Bob Moore
Ed & Bob
I have an 0-360 A1A that was purchased new 3 years ago. It had the factory
lightweight starter that it turns out was made by Tilton. (Not the skytec
they use now) It wouldn't fully engage on every start. I took it apart and
found the
solenoid was not installed right at the factory. There are 2 holes drilled
in the base to recess the return spring. They had it on backwards jaming
the spring. I reversed it and it has worked fine since. Don't know if this
could be what you are finding on you engines. I talked to Lycoming and they
said the Tilton's either worked or didn't work . Gee I wonder why since the
solenoids were either on right or wrong! Anyway they changed manufacturers.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bennett" <bennett(at)healey.com.au> |
Personally, I've learned quite a bit from the posts from bj nash.
Keep it coming, as long as it is informative. I can always choose to
use the "delete" key instead of the credit card.
If there is one thing to be learned from this thread it is
this....... Randall Henderson, NEVER try to commit humour on the
list!
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 fitting electric flaps
> Mr.bj nash writes:
>
> The RV-list, IMHO, is for a free exchange of ideas, including things to
> barter and sell in the best homebuilder tradition, in oredr to keep building
> costs as low as possible.
> ---------------------------
>
> Your humble opinion is misguided. A free exchange of building ides, yes.
> Barter and selling belong in Trade A Plane and other advertising venues.
> This is a builders forum of similar minded souls pursing a individual goal
> with commonality to all. To use this list as just another media extension to
> hock your wares shows a complete lack of taste and respect for the
> participants. However, I give you credit for your entrepreneural spirit.
> Occasional selling by builders is within the spirit and give-and-take of
> this list. Even commercial entities that make consistent contributions of
> facts, engineering, and advice that assists us in completing a safe project
> is welcome as long as the ratio of advice is greater than commercialism.
> ==================================
>
> I don't know how many of you would agree with me when I say that to put this
> type of thing down does a dis-service to those who appreciate offers of hard
> to find items and bargains.
> ---------------------------------
> Finding good deals can be difficult but if this list becomes an info-mercial
> for everything aviation then it no longer fulfills it purpose. Maybe you
> are trying to be selective and post only RV-stuff. But the dis-service will
> be when other capitalists follow your example and flood the list.
> ==================================
>
> Your type of thinking needs to be rethought, because as a capitalistic
> society, such beliefs are dangerous to all our well being.
> ----------------------------------
> It is unequivocal that capitalism needs to be constrained. That is why
> Michael Milken went to jail time, there are anti trust laws, and a code of
> Federal Regulations defining how you do business. Consistently using this
> list for commercial gain is dangerous to the list's well being.
> Elon
> ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
For those of you that have been waiting our new Empennage video on the Rv6/8
prepunched Empennage is now available. Cost $35.00 VHS and $45.00 PAL. (2
tapes/ 3 hours). For more info please George & Becki Orndorff (817)439-3280.
PS yes we are working on the RV8 wing video,and will let you know when it's
ready.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: In-flight break-ups. |
>This is in reply to the statement that there have been NO in-flight airframe
>failures on Van's aircraft. I have a very high regard for Bill Bennedict,
>but he may have worded his reply to Rusty Gossard as only a General Manager
>can.
>
>There are several articles in the past year's RVators that have described
>and tried to explain some recent in-flight breakups. The current RV-3
>factory- suggested limitation of "No Aerobatics" stems from these breakups.
>
Louis:
I think if you reread my original post I said "No inflight failures of an
RV-4 or 6" . The problems of the 3 are documented and the wing spars are
different. The 3's are the only aircraft with a reduced G load reccomendation.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred New <fred(at)ics.ee> |
| Subject: | Re: Make big $$$$$ selling airplane parts!!! |
Dear RV-lister,
I want to make a lot of money and I know you do too. If you just take the
time to read all of this message (This is where I usually stop reading if
the subject hasn't already made me vomit and delete the message.), you'll
learn how to destroy your life by trying to fit a junked Cessna 172 into
your apartment so you sell it for parts on the Internet. Why the engine
alone is worth a hernia and a strained back. BUT IT'S ALL PERFECTLY LEGAL
until you try to rob a bank in an attempt to support yourself.=20
Blah blah . . . file for bankruptcy before you have any debts . . . blah
blah . . . vendors will pay you not to disturb them . . . blah blah . . .
eat high-quality dog food (in Washington state just say, "Hey this is for
me; I don't have a dog; you're not supposed to charge sales tax on
food.") . . . blah blah . . . while you're at it, try standing on the
corner in downtown Portland and preaching about your favorite spiritual
leader (Van, for example) . . . blah blah . . . For more information,
just contact . . . *your favorite flamee (advertiser or me) here*.=20
Actually, I've found the amount of advertising in this list to be very
acceptable. I agree that Mr. Infobot has been stretching the envelope,
but I don't agree with anyone who thinks we shouldn't permit any
advertising.=20
s-------------------------------------------------------------------------s
Fred New, Systems Administrator RV-6A, planning, nothing ordered yet
IC Systems | Mustam=E4e tee 12 | EE0006 Tallinn | Eston=
ia
Internet--fred(at)ics.ee voice--(372) 656-5477 fax--(372) 656-5476
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <74774.54(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Sorry gang, but I have to disagree with the "POST NO BILLLS" attitude".
I am one of those builders who is on a tight (can you say ouch) budget and I
continually am looking for bargains. I have purchased tools and parts from this
list and other sources when I see them and have saved a good deal of money.
I can agree that should we start seeing a flood of this type Matt can reject
this sender, but to not have any one offer a new time or cost savings product to
the list, I believe is narrow minded.
Thanks... I feel better now......:)
Rick
74774.54(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scholl Jon" <scholl.jon(at)smtpgw.bcg.com> |
I would also like E mail about the wheel--just don't know e-mail address.
Jon Scholl
bcg007(at)aol.com
_______________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv-list(at)matronics.com on Fri, Sep 6, 1996 4:59 |
P.S. I made a English wheel (snip...) If anyone is interested in how to
make this super cheap wheel, let me know.
____________________________________
What is your email address? Or please send info to:
ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Bennett" <bennett(at)healey.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: mechanical rudder trim |
John, wouldn't you have to have a closed loop rudder cable system for
this to work? Otherwise you could bias it only one way.
Alternatively, fixed bias on the right side, variable bias on the
left might work.
I'm also interested in bright ideas on the subject.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 fitting electric flaps
> You could clamp onto the cable just forward of the left spar bulkhead and
> install a lever there to adjust for rudder trim.
>
> Should be able to keep it simple, light and cheap that way.
>
> John Ammeter
> ammeterj(at)seanet.com
> 3233 NE 95th St
> Seattle WA, 98115 USA
> RV-6 N16JA
> First flight August 1990
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
What you need to do is put a wire wheel on your grinder and use it to spin the
gear back into the bendix. The wire wheel works like the ring gear on your
fly-wheel. You must spin the gear in the opposit direction that the motor
turns in. I learned this trick from an electric rebuild guy. It works great.
Chris
>
> I have a new Lycoming with the regular starter, and I can't get the starter
> gear to pop back into the housing.
>
> A couple of months ago when I was installing the engine I rotated the starter
> gear by hand and it came forward out of the housing and didn't want to go
> back in. I didn't worry about it, thinking that the electrics were done I
> could energize the starter and it would pop back in.
>
> Well, that isn't the case. I energized the starter a couple of times, and it
> spins fine, but won't retract back into the case. Am I doing something
> wrong?
>
> Thanks,
> Ed Bundy
> ebundy2620(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Metal/Fiberglass and English Wheel |
>P.S. I made a English wheel for a total of $26 that did an excellent job of
>making compound curves on the provided rear skirts. I just didn't want to
>buy out the world's stock of .025 sheet trying to get two right. If anyone
>is interested in how to make this super cheap wheel, let me know.
I hope you made the skirts from 032! I'd love to see a set of plans for the
wheel.
Check six!
Mark
mlfred(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrenches |
Utica torque wrench company is located in Orangeburg SC. A 5-150 InLb.
wrench that will work just fine is model # TCI-150-3/8
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pmbs(at)probe.att.com |
I believed the list to be an informational source to assist in the
building of RV's......be it construction techniques, places to purchase
tools/materials where quality is #1 (along with fair prices), or other
related discussion.
I don't believe it's a place to discuss whether or not to constrain
capitalism......
A simple solution might be to put something in the header about the
subject, e.g. For Sale: Engine/ELT's/172 Panel and let the reader
choose to hit the "delete" key or not.
Philosophy about why or why not certainly does eat up bandwith and is
even interesting at times....but then there's that "too much of a good
thing" syndrome, and I get to use my "delete" key.
My 2c....and Matt may have some words about what the purpose, breadth
and depth of material that should be placed on the list.
Paul Bilodeau
pmbs(at)mt.att.com
908-957-6611
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
I think we need less "salesmanship" and more "just the facts mam" when =
posting stuff for sale. I have done business with Mr. Nash and have been =
entirely satisfied. (Tools over a year ago.) If you don't know to =
"beware " when buying an engine then I got a lot of stuff you may be =
interested in....... I think the salesman stuff should be reserved =
for private E-mail. My .02.
Al (Just bought my wing kit and MORE tools through the list) Mojzisik
prober(at)iwaynet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry WARD <ward(at)axime.com> |
| Subject: | RV Builders Group |
Hi I am at present building an RV6 in France. I would appreciate it if you
would give me information on how to participate in you forum etc. on the RV
aircraft.
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
To date, I haven't noticed anything I would call "abuse".
If you don't like the advertising, use your Delete key on the message.
The subjects usually seem to be pretty good clues that advertising is
contained herein.
-J
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
14190 47th Ave N.
Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
I don't know.
We all need engines and stuff to finish our planes. If somebody has goods or
services to make our lifes easyer why not post it to the list. The purpose
of the list is information exchange. If you learn of a new product or
something for sale (that you need) that is usefull information. Any
advertising should be strickly limited to RV-type items. People like the
Orndorff's, Nucklolls, & Wentz contribute significantly to this list, and as
such, their advertising should be permitted. Advertising itself is not bad,
it is one way of collecting information (just think of that bag of goodies
that you brought back from OSH). Junk mail is a pain in the @$$ and should
not be tolerated on this list.
BTW, I'm selling my Kawasaki Vulcan for $2,500....
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Trim Disconnect |
<< >Maybe I am missing something about all this talk about a trim
>disconnect. What is wrong with just having the trim connected
>to a simple on/off switch on the panel so if the trim starts
>to run away simply disconnect with the on/off switch?
>I have my elec. trim connected to one of my Potter
>Brumfield breaker switches and it work fine
> -- Jerry Springer
>>
Hay Jerry I agree. My trim is wired through a dedicated breaker (pull type)
on the panel right in front of me. If the trim goes nuts, pull the
breaker...real simple. For what it's worth, my autopilot breaker lives next
to my trim breaker so if that goes nuts.....
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com |
Ed,
I just bought an IO-320 engine that came with a standard
Prestolite starter on it. The starter gear on it was also as you
described. So I took it to a local repair shop and they said that
this is normal. When the engine starts it will reset it. These
starters are huge! So I sold it to this shop for $125 and ordered a
new Skytec starter from Van's. Wow, what a difference in size! I can't
wait to get my engine installed and try it out.
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6a working on forward top skin
tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Metal/Fiberglass and English Wheel |
| From: | Bill Downey <billd(at)ibmoto.com> |
Bruce,
I would love to hear about your on the cheap English wheel. Please
send me email or post to the list.
Bill Downey
--
| Bill Downey International Business Machines
|
| billd(at)ibmoto.com SOMERSET Design Center
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <Jim=Preston%303FS_DOT%Whiteman(at)szl.afres.af.mil> (Maj, 305FS/DOT, Whiteman |
AFB, 975-2968)
I've watched the debate and just can't stand by twiddling my thumbs any
longer...
BJ Nash writes...
>>The RV-list, IMHO, is for a free exchange of ideas, including things to
barter and sell in the best homebuilder tradition, in oredr to keep
building
costs as low as possible.<<
Then Elon Ormsby responds...
>Your humble opinion is misguided...To use this list as just another media
extension to
hock your wares shows a complete lack of taste and respect for the
participants.<
My opinion, humble or otherwise...
Elon, who appointed you the list policeman? We've had this discussion
before, concerning George Orndorff's videos, Cleaveland Tools, and others
who have offered various things for sale. In fact, there have been several
RVs (partial and otherwise) offered for sale. People ask for help, like "I
need a new super-duper whatchamacallit...anybody know where I can get one?"
"Yeah, so-and-so has one for $300. Call 1-800-BIGTOOL" The consensus was,
as long as the submissions are reasonable, they might help someone out.
Who makes that determination? IMHO, it would be the list administrator,
since it's his space they take up.
>Even commercial entities that make consistent contributions of facts,
engineering, and advice that assists us in completing a safe project is
welcome as long as the ratio of advice is greater than commercialism.<
Again, your opinion, as if it carries the weight of law. Have you been
keeping track of the above ratio? I remember several months ago when BJ
discussed jet engines (F-14 APUs) for sale. It generated quite a bit of
discussion, as I recall. Personally, I thought it was an irrelevant topic,
but I kept my mouth shut as people went back and forth. I deleted those
messages I didn't care about, which you're free to do with anything else BJ
says.
>But the dis-service will be when other capitalists follow your example and
flood the list.<
And when that happens, Matt (the list administrator, the guy who owns the
thing, the guy who offers his electronics for sale) can make the
determination that he wants to limit "advertising." You're also making a
BIG assumption that people will "flood the list." Hasn't happened
yet...possibly never will.
>Consistently using this list for commercial gain is dangerous to the
list's well being.<
Pretty strong words, with no evidence to back them up. Remember, the
"delete" key works just fine. Do you also advocate other censorship
policies, or do you trust in the individual's right to make his or her own
decisions?
Maybe we can start a policy similar to one we tried a year or so ago...we
were asked to put the word "chatter" in the subject line when responding to
posts with non-builder-type replies. In this case, perhaps putting "FOR
SALE" in the subject line will inform readers that the poster is trying to
sell something. It's then up to the reader if he or she reads it.
My two cents...(your choice whether you want to pay it or not.)
Jim Preston
jpreston(at)szl.afres.af.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gretzw(at)tcplink.nrel.gov |
I vote to not restrict the use of this list, except maybe messages
that don't pertain to RV's or flying in gerneral.
Warren Gretz
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
$125!!!!!! They're _$900_ new. Offer any more deals like this to the
list first. The nose casting alone is something like $400. The Bendix
drive is $70.
Chris
>
> Ed,
> I just bought an IO-320 engine that came with a standard
> Prestolite starter on it. The starter gear on it was also as you
> described. So I took it to a local repair shop and they said that
> this is normal. When the engine starts it will reset it. These
> starters are huge! So I sold it to this shop for $125 and ordered a
> new Skytec starter from Van's. Wow, what a difference in size! I can't
> wait to get my engine installed and try it out.
>
> Mark LaBoyteaux
> RV-6a working on forward top skin
> tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: In-flight break-ups. |
>There are several articles in the past year's RVators that have described
>and tried to explain some recent in-flight breakups. The current RV-3
>factory- suggested limitation of "No Aerobatics" stems from these breakups.
>
>I wonder if Bill Bennedict meant to say that there have never been any reported
>in-flight breakups of RV's as long as they have been flown within their
>acknowledged flight envelopes and as long as they were built to Van's (and
>our) building standards.
>
This is based from memory, as I don't have the RVator articles in front of me.
The current "No Aerobatics" limitation also stems from the fact that an RV-3
wing failed during static testing (tests conducted by Van's) at less than
the design limit. If my interpretation of this is correct, it implies that
a correctly built RV-3 wings could fail if flown within the previously
approved design envelope.
I was somewhat negatively surprised to learn that, until recently, the RV-6
wing had never been static tested. I thought a kitplane manufacturer of
Van's reputation would back up engineering with testing before marketing a
product. Fortunately, the wing held beyond design limits which gives me
warm fuzzies.
>P.S. The man I would like most to instruct me in my RV-4 is Bill Bennedict.
>He gave me my first ride and in 5 minutes showed me he had a perfect grasp
>of this plane. The smile is still there.
>
>Louis Willig
>larywil(at)op.net
>
I agree, I took my demo ride with him at Copperstate. He was very
competent, knew the airplane, and he's a real people person. As we taxied
off the runway...I said to him (full width RV grin) "you just sold a kit".
In fact, he took my order at Sun'n'Fun six months later.
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HowardRV(at)aol.com |
What started out to be a helpful forum for some of us dummies, and the chance
to save a few $$ when things are posted has turned into a nit-picking
))(*&(*&(*&()&. For those not interested in helping people even though some
questions may seem dumb/repitive and don't like the chance to save a few $$,
may I suggest they cruise the "net" and leave a good thing alone!
Howard Kidwell
howardrv(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | Advertising and Complaining about Advertising |
The complaints about the advertising using up too much bandwidth and
filling our mailboxes with junk, is doing just that. I am contributing
just a bit more asking it to stop.
Lots of folks have advertised something without this kind of reaction.
Is it because of the bold prose? Please don't answer, let's move on.
David Fried
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
>I think everyone is missing Randalls point here, he is really trying to
>sell his 3" yoke for $50.00, right Randall :-).
>
>Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
>jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
>
Whew...I was beginning to think I was the only one who caught the
facetiousness here .
Rob Acker (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
| Subject: | mechanical rudder trim |
Well, here is one of the old timers asking for info on a simple
mechanical rudder trim for an RV-6. After flying my RV-6 for 800
hrs I have decided to install a simple rudder trim somehow hooked
up to the rudder cables. Going through the RV-LIST archive files
I saw there is an article on this in one of James Cones MN. wing
newsletters hopefully I can get this from him, but just wondered if
anyone else has tried this and am open to any thoughts and
info out there. Thanks.
Jerry
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) (Hillsboro,
OR)
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
====================
Hi Jerry,
I have been giving this some thought too. But I think there is one problem
that needs to be solved before you can attach any trim device to a rudder
cable or pedal on an indivudual . The problems is the left and right rudder
pedals are not interconnected. There is no control system in place to keep
tension on the rudder cables continously. If you put your feet behind the
rudder pedals and pull you can move them back and this causes slack in
the cables. Tension is kept on the cables by pushing forward on the rudder
pedals.
My idea was to attach springs to the back of the rudder pedals and achor
them to the firwall. This would keep constant tension on the rudder cables
so you could us a push/pull trim system. Then install a friction slide
lever horizontally under the instrument panel in front of the pilot which
you could move left to right for trimming purposes. This lever would have
an arm that attaches to a push/pull rod that connects to one of the rudder
pedals. At the rudder pedal, a bracket would be needed that would allow the
push/pull rod to slide through for movement or the pedals without moving
the lever. Additionally at the rudder pedal bracket, another pair of
springs would be installed around the push/pull rod. One spring would ride
on the front face of the bracket and the other on the rear face of the
bracket. Maybe the best way to describe this would be..........the same
spring setup or principle as an Avery's back rivet tool except continue the
push/pull rod through the bracket and install a spring on the other side as
well.
I don't think the springs will have much effect over the control feel in
the air because the rudder stiffens up quite nice in flight.
This should make for an interesting topic on the list.
Greg Bordelon
greg(at)brokersys.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prefab pwr dist & ctrl |
>To: internet:rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> >ARE YOU WIRING UP A HOMEBUILT AIRCRAFT?
> >
. . . With all due respect to these folk and their
> entrepreneurship, I cannot recommend these products as cost
> or performance effective in amateur-built airplanes.
>
> Bob . . .
> AeroElectric Connection
Thanks Bob for your insight. As a believer in KISS (even though I did just
succumb to installing electric trim over manual...) I think I'll stick with
fuses & switches .
Rob (starting to read AeroElectric Connection today)
r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Make big $$$$$ selling airplane parts!!! |
<< Blah blah . . . file for bankruptcy before you have any debts . . . blah
blah . . . vendors will pay you not to disturb them . . . blah blah . . .
eat high-quality dog food (in Washington state just say, "Hey this is for
me; I don't have a dog; you're not supposed to charge sales tax on
food.") . . . blah blah . . . while you're at it, try standing on the
corner in downtown Portland and preaching about your favorite spiritual
leader (Van, for example) . . . blah blah . . . For more information,
just contact . . . *your favorite flamee (advertiser or me) here*. >>
?????
Miscellaneous ramblings I guess. Don't drink so much coffee in the morning.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
B.J. Nash = Michael Milken ????????
Wowzer!
>>>>>It is unequivocal that capitalism needs to be constrained. That is why
Michael Milken went to jail time, there are anti trust laws, and a code of
Federal Regulations defining how you do business. Consistently using this
list for commercial gain is dangerous to the list's well being.<<<<
Elon
ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
| Subject: | RE:RV Builders Group |
Hi I am at present building an RV6 in France. I would appreciate it if you
would give me information on how to participate in you forum etc. on the RV
aircraft.
Barry
==============
Howdy Barry,
First off, WELCOME aboard. No special information is need to particpate on
the list server. I take it you have subscibed to the RV-List. If you have a
web brouser.....go to "matronics.com". Additional information can be found
at this site. Let us know if we can be of any help. There are over 500
particpants on the list. A great list I might add... :-)
Greg Bordelon
greg(at)brokersys.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
>>In regards to the recent discussion on advertising on the list:<<
OK gang, I just have to stir it, can't resist any longer.
In the past couple of months I have greatly enjoyed the free information Mr.
Nash has put on the list. I personally squeeze every message for any
additional bit of knowledge I can find and will continue to do so as this is
the most fulfilling learning experience I have had. I fully realize that
sometimes the messages are almost overwhelming but you have to face facts,
we are all building the backbone of the new civil aviation industry. In
addition Mr. Van has just unleashed a new design which will generate lots of
message traffic. There's no way around it, messages will be plentiful on
this list. To try and police what is posted will never work, it will only
lend an unfriendly tone to our wonderful list. Just say you're not
interested by hitting that delete key.
Yesterday my new Tatco squeezer arrived with it's TWO heads. I paid $150.00
for this and I never would have found it if it was not mentioned on the
list. Financially, I probably have no business building an RV at this point
in my life. I have student loans from a decade of college, and if I had a
finished airframe at this time it would probably be a couple of years before
I could scrounge an engine. But make no mistake about it, I will finish my
RV. I'm sick of Spam.
As far as people furthering their business interest on the list, more power
to em. Anything you purchase for an aircraft is a buyer beware situation and
that goes for Textron Lycoming as well. Personally, I am always looking for
a new place to find a bargain; retail is for suckers! I plan on relieving
Mr. Nash next payday of some of his inventory after my pal showed me his
$50.00 3X rivet gun that just danced around my $250.00 job. Lord knows I
dream of giving up my desk job and making a living doing ANYTHING with
airplanes (will work for av-gas). Hey B.J., ya hiring?
OK boys (and Cheryl), flame away, I'm done whining. Let just don't start
policing messages, eventually it will get down to smart mouthed rednecks and
I'll never find another rv-list. Just remember the words of the great Rodney
King <;-) "can't we all just get along".
Eric Henson
Dana Point, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
>We all need engines and stuff to finish our planes. If somebody has goods or
>services to make our lifes easyer why not post it to the list. The purpose
>of the list is information exchange. If you learn of a new product or
>something for sale (that you need) that is usefull information. Any
>advertising should be strickly limited to RV-type items. People like the
>Orndorff's, Nucklolls, & Wentz contribute significantly to this list, and as
>such, their advertising should be permitted. Advertising itself is not bad,
>it is one way of collecting information (just think of that bag of goodies
>that you brought back from OSH). Junk mail is a pain in the @$$ and should
>not be tolerated on this list. Gary Corde
Gary, I agree. It would be unfortunate to miss an opportunity due to
censorship. However, I'm sure a little restraint shown by the "commercial"
entity would be appreciated by the listers. IOW, don't beat people over the
head with it (advertising). Most importantly, I would like to think that
any item posted for sale on this list is presented honestly and with
integrity and represents a good value. I look at this scenario as "friends
doing business with friends" and would not look favorably on anyone who sold
a known defective item or mis-represented an item.
Well, I'm off to make my list of stuff I need to sell---props, spinner,
exhaust system and what ever else extra I've got laying around. Next summer
is going to be here quicker than a guy thinks and I've got enough stuff to
move to Wyoming as it is. Gotta get rid of all my extra "RV stuff".
Bob Skinner RV-6 (& temporary Glastar builder) BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
For a rookie builder such as myself, any scrap of info I can get is helpful.
If I never contact Mr. Nash in response to one of his ads, I still gain by
getting a feel for market prices on things I will be needing in the future.
As long as the list doesnt become flooded with ads I dont see a problem
here. Lets keep the ads directly related to RV's (no F-14 APU's, etc...).
For Sale in the subject line would seem to be a reasonable requirement for
anyone wanting to post an ad.
Mike Wills
RV4 ser# 4083
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Metal/Fiberglass and English Wheel |
>P.S. I made a English wheel for a total of $26 that did an excellent job of
>making compound curves on the provided rear skirts. I just didn't want to
>buy out the world's stock of .025 sheet trying to get two right. If anyone
>is interested in how to make this super cheap wheel, let me know.
Bruce, Can you post to the list. I'll bet there are a lot of RVers that are
interested. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV Builders Group |
<< >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV Builders Group |
Hi Barry have not talked to you in a long time. If you get this message you
are on line with the group. Keep in touch ....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
Don't sweat it Howard, every six months a big dogfight breaks out. Theres
lots of flaming and replies to replies and maybe even a vote or two. Then
pretty soon everyone gets it out of their system and we all return to a big
ole electronic-group-hug-sortofa thing. In the end everyone realizes that it
would be real hard to improve the list and the only outcome is that Matt
Dralle does one hell of a job enduring us.
It's just Oshkosh withdrawals.
Eric Henson
Dana Point, Ca
(3 posts in the same week, I'm shuttin up now)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reply Seperator<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>What started out to be a helpful forum for some of us dummies, and the
chance
to save a few $$ when things are posted has turned into a nit-picking
))(*&(*&(*&()&. For those not interested in helping people even though some
questions may seem dumb/repitive and don't like the chance to save a few $$,
may I suggest they cruise the "net" and leave a good thing alone!<<<<
Howard Kidwell
howardrv(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BDStobbe <70743.2727(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | chatter re; list use |
Far be it from me to make any judgements as to what this list should be used
for. After all, I'm a relatively new person on the list who's participation has
been quite one-sided; ie - trying to learn from others' questions and answers in
matters dealing with building and flying RVs.
What does trouble me is the observation that the ratio of useful messages to
nonsense is getting way out of whack. My most recent trip to the mailbox
garnered 47 messages, of which only 10 or so dealt directly with RVs; the rest
was BS not even worth looking at (just like this tirade, huh?).
A short 6 months ago this wasn't the case. What the heck happened? I sure hate
to see such a potentially useful resource turned into mostly garbage. But hey,
I can always hit the delete key, right? Wrong, sorting through the junk takes
time, and I hate to delete unseen messages because of the chance of missing
something that could be helpful.
I hope I haven't offended anyone - I just wanted to have a chance to express my
disappointment at seeing the list slowly decay.....
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6
70743.2727(at)compuserve.com
PS - Oh yeah, while I'm busy wasting everyone's time I can't resist one more
thing - the fasteners we use are R-I-V-E-T-S not rivits.
________________________________________________________________________________
>
> I vote to not restrict the use of this list, except maybe messages
> that don't pertain to RV's or flying in gerneral.
>
> Warren Gretz
> RV-6
I just received 36 messages and 20 of them had nothing to do with
building. So what else is new.
I think the idea of a news group still has some merit, that way you can
follow
read only those topics you choose.
donmack@super-highway.net
rv-6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
> >I think everyone is missing Randalls point here, he is really trying to
> >sell his 3" yoke for $50.00, right Randall :-).
Thanks Jerry. Fortunately Chris Ruble also got the point too, he's
buying it from me.
> If there is one thing to be learned from this thread it is
> this....... Randall Henderson, NEVER try to commit humour on the
> list!
>
> Peter Bennett
You're right, I should probably try to exercise more restraint.
Sometimes I just can't help myself. I did get a pretty good laugh
out of some of the responses though!
OK, now back to RV tech talk! (and maybe the odd classified add :-)
Randall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: mechanical rudder trim |
>Well, here is one of the old timers asking for info on a simple
>mechanical rudder trim for an RV-6. After flying my RV-6 for 800
>hrs I have decided to install a simple rudder trim somehow hooked
>up to the rudder cables. Going through the RV-LIST archive files
>I saw there is an article on this in one of James Cones MN. wing
>newsletters hopefully I can get this from him, but just wondered if
>anyone else has tried this and am open to any thoughts and
>info out there. Thanks.
>Jerry
>--
>Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) (Hillsboro,
>OR)
>jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
Jerry, I saw Greg's response on the rudder trim. Unless you retro-fitted
the suspended rudder pedals, you have the floor mounts, right?
I've thought about this subject off and on. I'm always waiting for good
weather to implement an idea, etc, and it never comes here in Nebraska. The
1977 Maule that I owned had a right rudder trim. It was a "T" locking cable
attached, via a spring, to the right rudder cable. This idea wouldn't be
too hard to implement if all you needed was right rudder, as in the case of
the Maule. In other words, it seemed the Maule was rigged with a left
rudder bias so that all that was needed was right rudder trim. The spring
tension was light enough that it was easy to overcome.
If you only had to apply trim in one direction, in this case for example,
to the right, you could figure out a way to attach a spring to the right
rudder cable in the fuselage aft of the baggage compartment. To the end of
the spring attach the end of the control cable with the "T" lock. To attach
the spring to the rudder cable seems like it would be the biggest problem.
I suppose that using a couple of cable clamps might work to attach a cable
with a nicopress sleeved fitting on the end for spring attachment. Surely
there is a more elegant way to attach a fitting for spring attach to the
rudder cable but the above would probably work.
If you need rudder trim in both directions, could you change the
linkage/spring combination of the left rudder to such an extent that you
always needed right rudder? If not, things would become more complicated.
Hope I expressed my idea clearly. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
| Subject: | Alternator Wiring/ Landing Light Flasher |
I am at the fun stage of connecting hundreds of pieces of wire into the back
of the panel.
A question - why does the alternator need a switch that is separate from
the master? I cannot think of any time when I would want one without the other.
A separate question. I would like to put a flasher on the Landing light
and Taxi light so they could alternate. I got the name of a Mr Klee from the
RV List but he is not at the E mail address, or at the telephone number listed.
Incidentally, I was at the first flight of Ken Hitchmough's RV6A, and I have
since been for a flight in it - it is fabulous. My workmanship is not of the
same standard, so at Oshkosh, I will have to park in an inconspicuous place
out of sight.
The flight in Kens plane has given me new impetus to get finished, I am
hoping to be flying later this year.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
I just got my Rocky Mountain RVator. They announced the "First Annual
Burlington RVator Fly In and Gathering" on Sept. 29, 1996 at Burlington, CO.
This event is hosted by John Stewart, a RV-6A builder and the city of
Burlington. It states "If you are not nuts about Van's products, don't
come, because the rest of us are, and we don't want to wast time arguing
with you" They have a free steak lunch at noon, courtesy of the city of
Burlington. Special rates at the Comfort Inn for those staying overnight.
There is a dinner at night, your cost. There will be "speeches by
distiguished guests" at the evening meal.
I stopped at John's shop a year ago and he is doing some of the best
workmanship I've ever seen on a RV, plus, he's a real nice guy. I'm going,
even if I have to drive:(
Contact John at 303-756-6543 as he needs to get a head count.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
I just got my Rocky Mountain RVator. They announced the "First Annual
Burlington RVator Fly In and Gathering" on Sept. 29, 1996 at Burlington, CO.
This event is hosted by John Stewart, a RV-6A builder and the city of
Burlington. It states "If you are not nuts about Van's products, don't
come, because the rest of us are, and we don't want to wast time arguing
with you" They have a free steak lunch at noon, courtesy of the city of
Burlington. Special rates at the Comfort Inn for those staying overnight.
There is a dinner at night, your cost. There will be "speeches by
distiguished guests" at the evening meal.
I stopped at John's shop a year ago and he is doing some of the best
workmanship I've ever seen on a RV, plus, he's a real nice guy. I'm going,
even if I have to drive:(
Contact John at 303-756-6543 as he needs to get a head count.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
!!!!
I just looked at my calander. Sat. is the 28th. not the 29th. Sorry, just
typed the date as written in the RM RVator. Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Wiring/ Landing Light Flasher |
You wrote:
>
>
>A separate question. I would like to put a flasher on the Landing light
>and Taxi light so they could alternate. I got the name of a Mr Klee from the
>RV List but he is not at the E mail address, or at the telephone number
listed.
>
Are 916-863-1927 and rich_klee(at)ccm.fm.intel.com the numbers you had? That
is where I reached him when I purchased the flasher.
Bill Costello
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 | Reserved N97WC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | How do I lift an RV6A with engine for wing and landing gear |
insertion?
When I complete my RV6A fuselage with engine, instruments, interior, radios,
battery, the works .... And it is on the wheels with a temporary wood wing
spar .... How can I lift that all up, in a stable manner, so that I can get
the real spar and wings with landing gear on. It will be very heavy, and I
am not sure how one would get that on some sort of big saw horse arrangement
without damaging the fuselage sheet metal. I would really appreciate
hearing from anybody who can describe how this is done. Sure seems like it
would have been a lot less hassle to build an RV6.
Thanks for any enlightenment you can provide
Scott / Chicago rvgasj(at)mcs.com
-----------------------------------------------------------
My Project pictures at http://www.mcs.net/~rvgasj/rv6a.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | Where can I get Frank Justices Gearleg.doc ? |
Does anybody know where I can get Frank Justices Gearleg.doc? I dont see it
on the Hovan page.
Thanks Scott Johnson / Chicago rvgasj(at)mcs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Wiring/ Landing Light Flasher |
>I am at the fun stage of connecting hundreds of pieces of wire into the back
>of the panel.
>
>A question - why does the alternator need a switch that is separate from
>the master? I cannot think of any time when I would want one without the other.
>
>A separate question. I would like to put a flasher on the Landing light
>and Taxi light so they could alternate. I got the name of a Mr Klee from the
>RV List but he is not at the E mail address, or at the telephone number listed.
>
>Incidentally, I was at the first flight of Ken Hitchmough's RV6A, and I have
>since been for a flight in it - it is fabulous. My workmanship is not of the
>same standard, so at Oshkosh, I will have to park in an inconspicuous place
>out of sight.
>
>The flight in Kens plane has given me new impetus to get finished, I am
>hoping to be flying later this year.
>John
John, If you are just getting started on your wiring, I would recommend that
you subscribe to Bob Nucholls AeroElectric connection. I think you'll find
it very helpful. Bob also fixed me up with a flashing unit similar to a
Pulse Light and it has worked fine, so far.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino) |
I guess I'm with the majority. I feel that anyone may benefit from
someone's advertisement. I check this list everyday, and delete the items
(before I read them, if they do not interest me). If you want to sell
something on the list and putting "For Sale" in the Subject will keep these
people who don't want any advertising happy, then maybe we should. It is no
big deal. I feel that advertising aviation supplies is a big help to the
aviation community and that is why I will post all adds free on my web page
for anyone whose interested.
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn 80039
jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com
ps. Remember, you don't have to read EVERY posting. We don't want to
become our own
moral majority, do we?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator (chatter) |
rv-list(at)matronics.com,Internet writes:
Incidentally, I was at the first flight of Ken Hitchmough's RV6A, and I
have
since been for a flight in it - it is fabulous. My workmanship is not
of the
same standard, so at Oshkosh, I will have to park in an inconspicuous
place
out of sight.
John, thanks for the comments...you do yourself an injustice though. My
wife has a saying that's been matured over several years of her
(slightly) slap happy home decorating...."It won't show when its
painted" she says. It's quite amazing just how many bumps and wrinkles
just 'disappeared' from mine after the paint job.
The flight in Kens plane has given me new impetus to get finished, I am
hoping to be flying later this year.
Do I smell "formation"
Ken
RV6A Flying.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
Chris Ruble wrote:
>
> $125!!!!!! They're _$900_ new. Offer any more deals like this to the
> list first. The nose casting alone is something like $400. The Bendix
> drive is $70.
>
> Chris
Wow, and I have one of these starters just setting in my hanger that
I took off my O-360 when I put on a custom light weight starter.
$150.00 plus shipping to anyone. How about you Chris since you
bought the 3" yoke that Randell was not selling on the List :-).
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: mechanical rudder trim |
You're right, of course. Hadn't thought it through. However, if the return
springs for the rudder pedals were strong enough it should still work fairly
well.
>John, wouldn't you have to have a closed loop rudder cable system for
>this to work? Otherwise you could bias it only one way.
>
>Alternatively, fixed bias on the right side, variable bias on the
>left might work.
>
>I'm also interested in bright ideas on the subject.
>
>Peter Bennett
>Sydney Australia
>RV6 fitting electric flaps
>
>> You could clamp onto the cable just forward of the left spar bulkhead and
>> install a lever there to adjust for rudder trim.
>>
>> Should be able to keep it simple, light and cheap that way.
>>
>> Seattle WA, 98115 USA
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | Mounting Gear In An RV6A Without Inserting Wings ? |
Frank Justices plans indicate it is possible to mount the landing gear on an
RV6A without inserting the wings but buy using a wood pseudo spar instead.
This appeals to me since I do not have enough space in my workshop to put
the wings on and I live in Chicago where there will probably be slippery
snow conditions in my driveway when I am ready to do this later this year.
Does anybody know somebody who has gotten acceptable results by drilling the
landing gear into the wood pseudo spar without inserting the wings first ?
... Scott rvgasj(at)mcs.com
Project Status: Working on getting the fuselage out of the jig in a few months.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: mechanical rudder trim |
*** Jerry wants rudder trim ***
>>--
>>Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS
>>jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
>
>Jerry, I saw Greg's response on the rudder trim. Unless you retro-fitted
>the suspended rudder pedals, you have the floor mounts, right?
> I've thought about this subject off and on. I'm always waiting for good
>weather to implement an idea, etc, and it never comes here in Nebraska. The
>1977 Maule that I owned had a right rudder trim. It was a "T" locking cable
>attached, via a spring, to the right rudder cable. This idea wouldn't be
>too hard to implement if all you needed was right rudder, as in the case of
>the Maule. In other words, it seemed the Maule was rigged with a left
>rudder bias so that all that was needed was right rudder trim.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
see below
>The spring
>tension was light enough that it was easy to overcome.
> If you only had to apply trim in one direction, in this case for example,
>to the right, you could figure out a way to attach a spring to the right
>rudder cable in the fuselage aft of the baggage compartment. To the end of
>the spring attach the end of the control cable with the "T" lock. To attach
>the spring to the rudder cable seems like it would be the biggest problem.
>I suppose that using a couple of cable clamps might work to attach a cable
>with a nicopress sleeved fitting on the end for spring attachment. Surely
>there is a more elegant way to attach a fitting for spring attach to the
>rudder cable but the above would probably work.
> If you need rudder trim in both directions, could you change the
>linkage/spring combination of the left rudder to such an extent that you
>always needed right rudder?
Guys,
... wouldn't a spring pulling the right rudder cable only work if
you just removed the triangular trim "tab" from the rudder??
The trim would be speed dependant, but if you only ar concerned
about cruise, it might be OK. Of course, you would always tie it down with
full right rudder ...:^)
... a thought ... Gil (no rudder trim planned) Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
>If not, things would become more complicated.
>Hope I expressed my idea clearly. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
If it's in good condition, I'll take that starter...errr, I mean...if you
were selling one (nudg, nudg, wink, wink). How many hours are on it?
Chris
>
> Wow, and I have one of these starters just setting in my hanger that
> I took off my O-360 when I put on a custom light weight starter.
> $150.00 plus shipping to anyone. How about you Chris since you
> bought the 3" yoke that Randell was not selling on the List :-).
>
> --
> Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
> jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mccarthy(at)bconnex.net (sherald mccarthy) |
| Subject: | Building workshops |
Dear gentlemen/gentlepersons, new kid on the block/list. Planning to order
empennage kit- have preview plans for rv6, garage converted into rv assembly
plant. I would like to attend a building workshop on rv's as close to
Toronto Ontario as possible and as soon as possible. I already know about
Sky Struck in Oshkosh, perhaps there are some EAA chapters or individuals
running workshops that I have'nt heard of yet. If you know of any I would
appreciate hearing from you. Thanks Please reply to my e-mail address.
Sherald McCarthy (should I mention that I'm a teacher)
mccarthy(at)bconnex.net
phone# 705-435-9353
Toronto, Ontario
P.S. You Americans have some interesting conversation on the rv list.
________________________________________________________________________________
Hey Randall,
Your tongue-in-cheek humor was not lost on all of us.
Steve Hamer
RV-6 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Timothy W. Whitman" <71610.2013(at)CompuServe.COM> |
To Bob Skinner and anyone else with experience with Ed Sterba props: Have you
had any reason to regret buying your prop from Ed? He's been around for a while,
and though he got some bad press from the 1990 CAFE prop competition as publishe
din the Rvator, I assume he has learned how to fir RV6-A props to 160hp engines
in the last few years.
His materials seem comparable to all but the Aymar Demuth steel leading edge
protection. His recommended pitch of 76 inches seems steeper than most but
everyone measures it differently anyway, and I DID ask for a prop tending more
toward the cruise side.
Ed's $450 price is nearly half of the Warnke and Demuth props, and hundreds less
than Props Inc and Pacesetter. I've asked all makers how often they have had a
propeller fracture in service and all told me "none without foreign object
impact".
Any comments welcome.
Tim Whitman 71610.2013(at)compuserve.com, fatening canopy to the tip up frame.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sterba Props |
>To Bob Skinner and anyone else with experience with Ed Sterba props: Have you
>had any reason to regret buying your prop from Ed? He's been around for a
while,
>and though he got some bad press from the 1990 CAFE prop competition as
publishe
>din the Rvator, I assume he has learned how to fir RV6-A props to 160hp engines
>in the last few years.
>
>His materials seem comparable to all but the Aymar Demuth steel leading edge
>protection. His recommended pitch of 76 inches seems steeper than most but
>everyone measures it differently anyway, and I DID ask for a prop tending more
>toward the cruise side.
>
>Ed's $450 price is nearly half of the Warnke and Demuth props, and hundreds
less
>than Props Inc and Pacesetter. I've asked all makers how often they have had
a
>propeller fracture in service and all told me "none without foreign object
>impact".
>
>Any comments welcome.
>Tim Whitman 71610.2013(at)compuserve.com, fatening canopy to the tip up frame.....
Tim, I don't have any experience with the Sterba prop. I've flown a Felix,
Props, Inc. and now the Sensenich FP metal. We had a Warnke on out Glasair.
As you stated, different prop makers measure pitch at differnet locations.
Also, the same prop maker can make three identical props and there is a
strong possibility that they won't be identical in performance. The Props
Inc. prop is a beautiful prop, but I sent it back three times for re-carving
so as to increase rpms. I guess that's one of the reasons I went to the
metal. It's easy to get a true re-pitch and I would think that from prop to
prop, performance would be fairly constant.
In terms of quality, the Warnke, Props Inc., Prince and the Performance
Propellers that I have experience with all have good workmanship. The Felix
prop workmanship is not as good. (This may be one of the first props that
Felix made after he bought the business from Rheme. I bought it for a spare
for when I was shipping my Props Inc. back and forth.) Warnke seems to have
trouble meeting delivery dates. Jeff, at Props Inc., is great to work with
and really stands behind his product and his turn around time is great.
I just did a EAA tech couselor visit on a RV-6 east of here. He was
installing a Performance Props, prop and it was beautiful. It features
multiple laminates (est.-64 or so) similar to the Warnke and Props Inc.
prop. Deliveriy was as promised and the builder was impressed with Clark
Lydick, who I understand, used to work for Warnke. I liked the prop. The
price sheet on the PP prop shows a cost of $700 to $775 + $15.00 shipping.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gary white <gwhite(at)vaxxine.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Metal/Fiberglass and English Wheel |
>
>Bruce Patton
>-6A, making fiberglass rear canopy skirts on the slider.
>
>P.S. I made a English wheel If anyone .......................
>is interested in how to make this super cheap wheel, let me know.
>
Bruce:
Can you add me to your list for the english wheel, as well ?
Thanks
Gary White
Niagara Falls, Canada
email gwhite(at)vaxxine.com
fax 905-262-5925
------------------------------------------------------------
Name : gary white
, ON, Canada
------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | El Chepo English Wheel |
It appears there is some interest in the below, so here goes:
Here is how I did a English Wheel for almost nothing.
Bottom Wheel: 4" dia, steel non-castering dolly wheel, flat surface, about
1.5" wide
Top Wheel: 1" dia. steel non-castering dolly wheel, flat, about 7/8" wide
Wood: Bunch of 4X4 left over from the wing/tail jigs
All Thread: Left over from the wing construction used to hold the ribs
straight.
Plywood: left over kit box, boy is there a bunch!
The dolly wheels should be fairly good quality with decent axles. Mine
totaled $24 from a local contractor's type hardware store (Questa Equipment
in San Luis Obispo, Ca), not True Value. I haven't looked in Orchard Supply.
Polish the surface of the 4" wheel against your scotchbrite wheel on the
grinder. Hold the wheel flat against the scotchbrite and use a small block
of wood to act as a brake to allow the wheel to polish. Watch your
fingers!!!
Grind a radius on the 1" dia wheel using the grinder and then polish it on
the scotchbrite. Use the method above to get it to grind. The radius
depends on how much curve you want to get in the metal. I took about 1/8"
off the edges and developed that into a smooth curve.
The frame is made of surplus 4X4. Horizontal arms were about 22" long and
the vertical portion is two pieces of 4X4 about 6" long laid horizontally.
See below.
|-------------------------------------- |
| |
|-------------|-------------------------|
| |
|-------------|
| |
|-------------|
| |
|-------------|--------------------------|
| |
| ---------------------------------------|
The space between the arms depends on the total size of the two wheels. For
mine, it was 2 4X4, a 3/4' spacer, and two popsicle sticks. Should be
slightly oversize, about 1/8" or less.
The frame is held together with two pieces of all-thread thu the mess on the
left.
Scab 2X4 on the side of the bottom arm to allow the 4" wheel to mount at 90
degrees to the sketch above.
Mount the bottom wheel, and top wheel. The gap between them should be
between 1/8" and 0. They should allign both horizontally and vertically.
Now cover the left side with plywood, both sides. I used old kit box.
Should be glued and screwed to everything. This provides torsional
stiffness to the arms. Essential for it to work.
Now add an all-thread rod about 10" to the left of the wheels. It should
have a large washer on the top, and be jammed to prevent rotation. This is
the adjuster to finalize the gap between the wheels, and to put the pressure
on the skin.
To use:
I clamped the thing to the side of a sturdy table by the bottom arm. Put the
aluminum between the wheels and tighten the adjuster all-thread nut on the
top to put pressure on the aluminum. Slide the aluminum back and forth
tighening the adjuster until something starts to happen. It takes some force
to move the metal between the wheels
I found that it took a fair amount of pressure to do anything to the 2024 T3
used in the slider rear canopy skirts. It did do a good job of making a
compound curve. I have a bunch of T0 from another project, and will try to
make LG upper fairings later. I figured it would take a bunch of learning
to get the exact fit for these canopy skirts, but...
If the adjuster all-thread interferes with your work, you can stop and
remount the wheels so they run parallel with the arms.
If you don't do a good job of polishing the wheel surface, it will surely
mess up your shinny aluminum.
Bruce Patton
Going Soaring
(Better than working on those #@%#$^$ fiberglass rear skirts.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
Yesterday I wrote:
>> My F6111 parts don't seem to come anywhere near close to being the right
>> shape. As I read the plans for the sliding canopy, the bottom of the F6111
>> aligns with the top of the F624. It is supposed to lay flush against the
>> inside of the skin, with the top of the F6111 against th F606 bulkhead.
>>
>> In this position, there is a gap of about an inch between the skin and the
>> middle of the F6111.
TCOlson <tcolson@Cedar-Rapids.Net> replied:
> I did those part abput a year ago and found that the right and left
>markings were reversed on the stamped labels. Try swapping them and
>they should work with a little twisting.
Thanks, Tom. I noticed the reversal of the markings, but that wasn't it.
After a couple more hours of scratching my head, I figured it out.
Somehow, I mounted the F624's about an inch aft of where the plans show
them. If I move the bottom end of the F6111 forward about an inch, it fits
real nice.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
finishing kit on order
fuselage out of the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: In-flight break-ups. |
<< The current "No Aerobatics" limitation also stems from the fact that an
RV-3
wing failed during static testing (tests conducted by Van's) at less than
the design limit. If my interpretation of this is correct, it implies that
a correctly built RV-3 wings could fail if flown within the previously
approved design envelope. >>
Your interpretation is not correct. The RV-3 wing will not fail at the
maximum design load of 6G's. The problem is that the wing is supposed to hold
up under a 50% overload (9 G's) and it does not meet that criteria. The wing
will not fail if it is flown within the design limits (weight and G limits)-
but there is not a big enough margin to meet the FAR's.
Andy Hanna
AHanna2(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: mechanical rudder trim |
Bob Skinner wrote:
>
> Jerry, I saw Greg's response on the rudder trim. Unless you retro-fitted
> the suspended rudder pedals, you have the floor mounts, right?
> I've thought about this subject off and on. I'm always waiting for good
> weather to implement an idea, etc, and it never comes here in Nebraska. The
> 1977 Maule that I owned had a right rudder trim. It was a "T" locking cable
> attached, via a spring, to the right rudder cable. This idea wouldn't be
> too hard to implement if all you needed was right rudder, as in the case of
> the Maule. In other words, it seemed the Maule was rigged with a left
> rudder bias so that all that was needed was right rudder trim. The spring
> tension was light enough that it was easy to overcome.
> If you only had to apply trim in one direction, in this case for example,
> to the right, you could figure out a way to attach a spring to the right
> rudder cable in the fuselage aft of the baggage compartment. To the end of
> the spring attach the end of the control cable with the "T" lock. To attach
> the spring to the rudder cable seems like it would be the biggest problem.
> I suppose that using a couple of cable clamps might work to attach a cable
> with a nicopress sleeved fitting on the end for spring attachment. Surely
> there is a more elegant way to attach a fitting for spring attach to the
> rudder cable but the above would probably work.
> If you need rudder trim in both directions, could you change the
> linkage/spring combination of the left rudder to such an extent that you
> always needed right rudder? If not, things would become more complicated.
> Hope I expressed my idea clearly. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>
Bob
There has been some good ideas presented here but yours just made the
lights come on, I have been in the thinking mode of something up
front by the pedals, but your idea is so simple using a locking
type cable and spring attached to the right cable in the aft fuselage
compartment is a good one. I do have the floor mounted pedals and
I don't have any exterior trim tabs, that is what I am trying to
avoid, at cruise I have to hold just a little pressure on the right
pedal to keep the ball centered, I think this is because of my gear
leg farings but they are fiberglass and foamed into place so I don't
want to change them.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sterba Props |
Timothy W. Whitman wrote:
>
> To Bob Skinner and anyone else with experience with Ed Sterba props: Have you
> had any reason to regret buying your prop from Ed?
Tim
I used a Sterba prop when I first put the 180hp on my RV-6 and I can
only say good things about him and his props, I needed a little more
static RPM and he said send it back and he repitched it for me and it
worked great. The only reason I took it off was because Warnke came out
with the thin blade prop, everybody was raving about how well it worked
so I put one on my RV-6 and am very happy with it also.
I sold the Sterba to a guy that put it on his 180 hp RV-4 and he also
was very happy with it. Again his props work well and are very
reasonably priced.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: How do I lift an RV6A with engine for wing and |
landing gear
insertion?
Hello All....
Just my $.02 on this subject - maybe it'll help someone...
The fuselage will probably be on the gear using the wooden "dummy
spar" for a long time while you are getting the fiddley stuff done, -
fairings etc ..etc...and also while you move to the airport for wing
attachment & final assembly. - O.K. - This is what Greg Bordelon and I
did on mine.....
The actual move was "painless" actually... after toying with the Idea
of using extended trailers or similar, we opted to call the local
wrecker company to do the deed. They arrived with the specified big
"flatbed" type of truck,.. you know.., the ones' where the bed slides
off the back, then winches back on. He charged 75.00 for the move
(about 8 miles and 45 minutes T.T.) and it was worth every dime.
Amazingly enough, he said that it was not his first plane move!! The
wings travelled along with us - in their cradle in the bed of a pickup
truck.
As for the big day when it is time to put the wings on - not too tough
really. We used a couple of 2x8 planks about 8 ft long, resting on 4
saw horses. The saw horses should be about the same height or just a
little taller than the bottom of the fuse. Position the first horse
next to and parallel to the fuse and put one end of the plank on it.
The plank is now placed under the firewall bulkhead, and covered with
blankets/ pillows to cushion your vulnerable bottom (oops). Remember,
it is 8" wide so the load is well distributed also. Take a deep
breath, Cinch up your Jockstrap, and lift the other end of the plank -
and up comes your bird - WOW! - wheels up for the first but not last
time - and slip another horse under the second end. The plank will
bend a bit - but don't be alarmed! Repeat using another plank and 2
horses at the tail to get level flight condition (longeron horizontal
at the cabin rail) so that you can align the incidence angle
accurately - as per the manual.
FYI - We found that final wing attach - installing all those the spar
bolts to be a real bitch...( unless of course you are deformed -
double jointed and with strong 5' arms, with 2 elbows per arm would be
about right I think).
Well, mainly Due to excessive beer sampling duties in a previous
existance - my own large, 2X, manly frame simply would not bend to the
alkward angles needed to lovingly, gently, and tenderly beat the
requisite amount of **** out of those bolts. So I somehow got Greg to
do it -- (Thanks again Greg!!). Took about 3 Days and a lot of messing
about with the legs to get final bolt alignment, and many bad words.
(mostly directed at me by Greg).
Anyways up, I went on for longer than I wanted to - but what the hell.
The above worked well for us - and even with the bird painted we
didn't mess up the cosmetics one bit.
Regards,
Rob Lee
av8r(at)hic.net
RV6A - N517RL - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | The Smiths <kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com> |
I, FWIW, would rather read adds than argue about whether ads are
available. If you can't decide, only encourage references to other
sites/e-mail addresses.
Besides, there is only one vote that counts--right MAT (of MATRONICS
fame)?
Ken Smith
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin lane <kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mounting Gear In An RV6A Without Inserting Wings ? |
Brian Moentenich and I both have drilled our landing gear to the wind
spars before installing the bulkhead in the fuse. Neither of us had room
to do this in our garages. I drilled mine with one wing propped up
behind the furnace in the basement! After carefully leveling and
adjusting the drilling, using a brass tube to piloy drill, took only a
couple hours. I can't imagine the process when installed in the fuse.
The wings get tweaked a bit before drilling the rear wing spar but we
can't imagine the deflection in the beefy part of the spar would be
measurable or noticeable as toe-in/out. I hope also to put my fuse "on
rubber" so my plane can progress from the adolescent taildragger phase!
Kevin (200+ hrs T-craft time).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: 6 Canopy gas struts--jetison |
>I'd rather be cryin' in my beer over the wrecked airplane I bailed out of
>than have my wife cryin' over me still in it.
Amen. I had to bury a VERY good friend a few months ago. The really bad
part that depressed me for weeks was that his little 3-year-old boy will
now grow up without his daddy.
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold
pilots.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
finishing kit on order
fuselage out of the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: FS: LYCOMINGS: 160 HP $2500-$5500 |
>Yes, I personally think this one seems to be 'testing the envolope' and has
>just about gone outside of it. I think very much of this stuff will cause our
>archive to go exponential, to say nothing of our own message boxes. Other
>opinions?
My sentiments exactly. I really don't mind George and Becki Ornorff's
occassional plugs on here, mind you. But this one's a bit too much of a
'crass commercial message' for my taste.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
finishing kit on order
fuselage out of the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrenches |
sierchio(at)groucho.boi.noaa.gov wrote:
>I've never owned a torque wrench and in fact, have never used one.
>I want to buy one and I've read many times on this list, that "the
>only expensive tool is a cheap tool".
You are not going to find a single torque wrench that will cover the entire
range of torques that you need. You are going to end up with two torque
wrenches (of course, this is a 'tool junkie' talking) to cover the ranges
you need.
Now, let me tell you a story. I have two torque wrenches, one is a
Craftsman and the other is a Snap-On. The original purchase price of the
Snap-on was about three times the cost of the Craftsman. BUT: once upon a
time the Craftsman torque wrenches were very good - My father's 30-year old
Craftsman is still a wonderful tool - The new Craftsman torque wrenches now
have a lot of PLASTIC parts in them. Mine has disassembled itself
internally twice. When you consider cost of having the Craftsman repaired
and re-calibrated twice, my Snap-On torque wrench has cost me FAR less
money.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
finishing kit on order
fuselage out of the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A Tip-up canopy questions |
I'm feeling a bit guilty that I started all this.
Has anyone used a quick release pin mechanism for the release of the gas
struts? The bottom mounts seem to be the most likey, but the strut might
swing at high speed and do more damage than required.
Can this be tied into the front handle? I guess the pressure of the struts
would be enough to rip the canopy clear (no feet required)
Any thoughts
Royce Craven
roycec(at)ozemail.com.au
>>>>> The only reason I see for the ability to jettison the canopy is if you
were
>>>>> planning on getting out after structural failure during aerobatics.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Scott N506RV
>>>>
>>>> The release mechanism also allows for easy repairs on the canopy.....
>>>>
>>>>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
>>>>wstucklen(at)aol.com
>>>
>>>Fred,
>>>
>>>That's true, but the combined time of getting on my back and removing two
>>>nuts and two bolts over the life of the A/C is probably less than the time
>>>it would take to install the release assembly in the first place. Not
>>>installing it also saves a little weight and frees up some panel space.
>>>
>>>Just another point of view.
>>>-Scott N506RV
>>
>>
>>
>>QUESTION:
>> Do any of you guys already flying have any comments on this option??
>>
>>
>> ... thanks in advance ...
>>
>> Gil (why put the handle on the panel?) Alexander
>>
>>RV6A (tip-up), #20701
>>gil(at)rassp.hac.com
>>
>>
>>
>I've got to get into this----- There is NO WAY that I would ever want to
>lay on my back and try to remove bolts from the front of the canopy hinge.
>In fact, I don't think I've ever been able to see much less reach those
>bolts. I pray and knock on wood that I never have to replace the mode C
>encoder; it's mounted on the left panel to firewall brace.
>
>I have removed my canopy at least 10 times in the last 6 years. Sometimes
>it's just handier to have it out of the way when I'm working inside the
>aircraft or on the back of the panel.
>
>Of course, some of my reluctance to crawl under the panel may be due to my
>generous proportions. I still challenge even the smallest of us to honestly
>say that they enjoy laying with the spar under the small of your back as
>they reach up into the 'top' of the fuselage trying to find that wire or
>bolt. It ain't fun; not by a long shot.
>
>John Ammeter
>ammeterj(at)seanet.com
>3233 NE 95th St
>Seattle WA, 98115 USA
>RV-6 N16JA
>First flight August 1990
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com |
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 08:51:24 -0700
From: Chris Ruble <cisco.com!cruble(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Starter
$125!!!!!! They're _$900_ new. Offer any more deals like this to the
list first. The nose casting alone is something like $400. The Bendix
drive is $70.
Chris
Duh,
I would have offered it on the list first, but I was worried that it
might look like I was trying to advertise! Now, about that torque
for the attaching hardware.....
Mark LaBoyteaux
tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
| Subject: | Re: Metal/Fiberglass and English Wheel |
I'd like to put this on the infobot, can you write it up?
bj
AIRCRAFT REMANUFACTURING
1291 E. VISTA WAY, #150
VISTA, CA. 92084 (619) 749 0239 FAX: 749 6384
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dfp(at)ns.acadiacom.net (Dave Porter) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6a canopy type |
Before we are forced to make a choice we may regret would you experienced RV
builders comment on sliding versa clamshell type canopy. My brother Bob is
the one that needs to make this choice and we have discussed pros and cons.
It seems that trader plane ads coming from prsopective purchasers of
pre-built RV-6 or 6A specifically desire sliding type.
Input please.....
Thanks in advance.
Dave Porter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey D. Blackman" <jeffreyb(at)ix4.ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrenches |
> sierchio(at)groucho.boi.noaa.gov wrote:
>
>>I've never owned a torque wrench and in fact, have never used one.
>>I want to buy one and I've read many times on this list, that "the
>>only expensive tool is a cheap tool".
>
>You are not going to find a single torque wrench that will cover the entire
>range of torques that you need. You are going to end up with two torque
>wrenches (of course, this is a 'tool junkie' talking) to cover the ranges
>you need.
>
>Now, let me tell you a story. I have two torque wrenches, one is a
>Craftsman and the other is a Snap-On. The original purchase price of the
>Snap-on was about three times the cost of the Craftsman. BUT: once upon a
>time the Craftsman torque wrenches were very good - My father's 30-year old
>Craftsman is still a wonderful tool - The new Craftsman torque wrenches now
>have a lot of PLASTIC parts in them. Mine has disassembled itself
>internally twice. When you consider cost of having the Craftsman repaired
>and re-calibrated twice, my Snap-On torque wrench has cost me FAR less
>money.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Dave Barnhart
>barnhart(at)a.crl.com
>rv-6 sn 23744
>finishing kit on order
>fuselage out of the jig
>
>
> Dave......I thought all Craftsman tools had a lifetime guarentee. Is
this
not true????
Jeff Blackman
jeffreyb(at)ix.netcom.com
Someday, somehow, I'll too have an RV :-))
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey D. Blackman" <jeffreyb(at)ix16.ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6a canopy type |
>Before we are forced to make a choice we may regret would you experienced RV
>builders comment on sliding versa clamshell type canopy. My brother Bob is
>the one that needs to make this choice and we have discussed pros and cons.
>It seems that trader plane ads coming from prsopective purchasers of
>pre-built RV-6 or 6A specifically desire sliding type.
>
>Input please.....
>Thanks in advance.
>Dave Porter
>
>
> Dave.....I took my first ride in an RV-6A about a week ago. It was
pretty warm that day (Sunday....Van's RV Homecoming at North Plains, OR) and
especially warmed up...alright....got damn hot when the pilot closed the canopy
before take-off. One thing that was nice about the sliding canopy.....hope this
doesn't sound silly.....but after landing on a hot day you can reach up and
slide the canopy back just after landing to cool down a little....I can't see
doing that with the tip up kind.
Just my opinion.....I like the sliders.
J.B.
Wish I was building an RV-6 :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elon Ormsby <ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov> |
| Subject: | Advertising(Chat) |
(snip) year or so ago...we were asked to put the word "chatter" in the
subject line when responding to posts with non-builder-type replies. In
this case, perhaps putting "FOR SALE" in the subject line will inform
readers that the poster is trying to sell something...
>My two cents...(your choice whether you want to pay it or not.)
>Jim Preston
>jpreston(at)szl.afres.af.mil
----------------------------
Well, Jim that was more than 2 cents worth but I not going to keep it going
by giving you change. :)
Of course my posting was my opinion, I didn't think IMHO had to precede
every paragraph and I never said to ban advertising. Some advertisers make a
positive and generous contribution with their ideas, information and
experience. I have bought items from them. I have learned a lot from them
and will continue to support them A couple of others have never
volunteered anything unless it was "lets make a deal". Nigel Bennet observed
that someone's advertising was getting to be a bit much and I felt the same
way.
Ok, so I need to use my Del key more often - that's no problem. But
remember, "an ounce of prevention..." opps! that sounds like a policeman - I
guess we will have to just wait and see.
Elon
ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Moore <bobmoore(at)mail.wwd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6 Canopy gas struts--jetison |
Dave Barnhart wrote:
> There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold
> pilots.
How old is old? Me at 61? Hoover? Another "Old Pilot's Wives' Tale".
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6a canopy type |
>Dave Porter
>
Dave; It depends on which you prefer, a P-51 style or an F-4 style. I have
the tilt up and am very pleased with it. I can open it at any time on the
ground, and with the slot in the bow, it will stay in place cracked open
when in the air. Not that I am recommending it open while airborne, but I
did once get airborne with it in the bow lock position. Wasn't very noisy,
nor hard to close. I just kept the speed down, got a little altitude,
reached up with my rt hand, turned the handle, pulled down, rotated the
handle, then locked it with my left hand. No problem. On the landing roll
out, I can reach up with my rt hand and after having unlocked it, just
rotate the upper lock, pop the canopy open and let it rest on the
bow--plenty of ventilation. I went with the tilt up because I didn't see
any advantage to the slider other than eye appeal of choice, plus that the
tilt up was reported as being easier to install and to get a good fit. With
my construction ability, the easy to install was the decider.
It's what floats your boat. Me, I like red heads, but that doesn't mean
everyone must marry a red head like I did.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6a canopy type |
>Before we are forced to make a choice we may regret would you experienced RV
>builders comment on sliding versa clamshell type canopy. My brother Bob is
>the one that needs to make this choice and we have discussed pros and cons.
>It seems that trader plane ads coming from prsopective purchasers of
>pre-built RV-6 or 6A specifically desire sliding type.
>
>Input please.....
>Thanks in advance.
>Dave Porter
Dave, You might want to check the archives. I've got the tip up on my six
and will install the tip up on the six I'm building now. I can taxi with
the canopy up (with the use of the struts) although visibility is zip. You
have to stick your head out of the cockpit to see. When I'm in crowded
territory or making a turn on the taxiway, I pull the canopy down. On the
6-A's that I've been in, I can see over the glare shield of the tip up, so
visibility isn't a problem.
This tip-up vs. slider is second only to primers for stimulating
discussion onthe list:) Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A Tip-up canopy questions |
>Has anyone used a quick release pin mechanism for the release of the gas
>struts? The bottom mounts seem to be the most likey, but the strut might
>swing at high speed and do more damage than required.
>Can this be tied into the front handle? I guess the pressure of the struts
>would be enough to rip the canopy clear (no feet required)
>Any thoughts
>Royce Craven
>roycec(at)ozemail.com.au
Royce, I wouldn't think it would be worth the effort. I'd suggest that you
remove the struts on the ground whenever you're wearing a parachute and
doing acro or test flying. You will probably want to install Van's canopy
hold up arm for use when you aren't using the struts. Bob Skinner RV-6
BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Crass Commercialism |
I have refrained from commenting initially (you know how I can get) on this
subject, partly because it is difficult to shed light and not heat on some of
these intractable quandries. The rights of the listers to be free of
unwarranted solicitations contrasted against the rights of those with the
goods we may need to complete our planes to make us aware of that fact.
I suppose that the main thing that differentiates a simple offer of a product
or service (of any commodity) from unwarranted brow beating harrassment is
the style and sensitivity with which it is done. As we all know, style and
sensitivity are difficult to articulate and may be perceived differently by
each individual.
Particularly in America (crass commercialism capital of the world, where some
people would sell their mothers for a quick buck) we all are besieged on all
fronts with offers of this and that. We perceive the desirability of the
offer (and hence its appropriateness) based on whether we need the item or
not. It is this same principle that allow some people to think of sexual
offers as harassment.
In the case of blanket solicitations (as opposed to targeted solicitations),
it is not possible for the offerer to know in advance whether or not each
individual needs his/her product or service. The offerer can only attempt to
phase the offer in as appropriate a manner as they can. The advertiser can
make their approach seem more friendly by having an awareness and sensitivity
to the fact that those not in need of their product or service also don't
want to be repeatedly brow beaten with it. Repeated solicitations are
considered harassment, no matter how well intentioned. You would think, at
first blush, that this list would happily accept all manners of aircraft
related advertising but the above principle still holds. If we already have
what we need we wonder why we have to endure this treatment.
Several other factors make the solicitation even less palatable: (1) The
offering of used parts (as opposed to new items) lends a kind of flea market
(dumping) atmosphere to the offer, (2) Used parts also conjures up the old
used car salesman image and (3) The inclusion of a corporate masthead serves
to fuel the fire and take away from the "friends helping friends" nature of
this list.
I think that offers of things for sale on this list should be dealt with as
follows:
A simple FOR SALE in the subject line,
A simple "Joe Friday" presentation of the items offered and asking prices,
and
A simple name/phone#/E-mail address
My $.04 (corrected for Ronald Reagan era inflation). Thanks for listening.
Gary VanRemortel
Vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrenches |
Read the fine print on the Sears (Craftsman) guarentee. It reads
something like "hand tools only". I think that can be read to mean,
anything that's not likely to break.
I looked at the Craftsman torque wrenches, and laughed. Plastic?
When I buy tools, it's for a life-time, maybe even longer, if I consider
giving my tools to my kids when I'm to old to twist bolts. Plastic parts
don't last that long, even in normal use.
Chraftman is not what it used to be. I've started buying S&K. They're
about twice the price, buy the quality margin over Craftsman is obvious
from 10 feet away. They carry the same guarentee as the Sears tools
and it covers everything they sell.
Another thing that I don't like about Sears (at least the two stores in
my area) is the snotty attitude of the help. I think Sears has some
problems to resolve.
Chris
>
> ......I thought all Craftsman tools had a lifetime guarentee. Is
> this
> not true????
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rdunn(at)ionet.net (Ronald M. Dunn) |
| Subject: | Chapter 10 (Tulsa) fly-in |
The Chapter 10 fly-in (held in Bartlesville, OK) will be Fri/Sat, Sept.
20-21. Dang, I can't find my mailer with all the details. Anyway, this is
a large, regional, annual affair. Tulsa's thirty plus RV Builders
Association members are always rewarded with a large showing of RVs.
Where is that mailer?
Mark, can you add to this? (ref starter---$150s in hand may be better than
$500+ on the net :-)
Ron
Ron Dunn (RV-8 #80078)
rdunn(at)ionet.net
Broken Arrow, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Starter; For Sale |
I've got one, too. Came off my O-320 when I installed my lightweight
starter. Will also sell for $150 plus shipping.
>Chris Ruble wrote:
>>
>> $125!!!!!! They're _$900_ new. Offer any more deals like this to the
>> list first. The nose casting alone is something like $400. The Bendix
>> drive is $70.
>>
>> Chris
>
>Wow, and I have one of these starters just setting in my hanger that
>I took off my O-360 when I put on a custom light weight starter.
>$150.00 plus shipping to anyone. How about you Chris since you
>bought the 3" yoke that Randell was not selling on the List :-).
>
>--
>Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
>jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
>
>
>
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Building workshops (Chatter) |
>Dear gentlemen/gentlepersons, new kid on the block/list. Planning to order
>empennage kit- have preview plans for rv6, garage converted into rv assembly
>plant. I would like to attend a building workshop on rv's as close to
>Toronto Ontario as possible and as soon as possible. I already know about
>Sky Struck in Oshkosh, perhaps there are some EAA chapters or individuals
>running workshops that I have'nt heard of yet. If you know of any I would
>appreciate hearing from you. Thanks Please reply to my e-mail address.
>
>Sherald McCarthy (should I mention that I'm a teacher)
>mccarthy(at)bconnex.net
>phone# 705-435-9353
>Toronto, Ontario
>
>P.S. You Americans have some interesting conversation on the rv list.
>
>
Nah, we allow the Canadians and Australians to join in also; makes for one
big family, eh??
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Starter Trade-Outs . . . |
There's ongoing discussions about value of Prestolite
takeoffs for Lycoming starters. B&C has for years offered
$100 trade-on for a working (not smoked or broken), geared,
Prestolite for their lightweight starter. This price was
arrived at because a local overhaul shop offered him this
amount for "overhaulable cores."
Obviously, many of you are aquiring newer, if not zero-
time overhauls on your engines. If it's truely a
zero-time overhaul with a "yellow tag" then the starter
is work a great deal more than a core. I would judge
at least $300 wholesale to an FBO, $500 retail to another
end user . . . presuming that the end user wants to put
it on his certified airplane.
If it's simply a good used starter of unknown history,
then $150 to $200 would be a price to start from. A little
ad in Trade-a-Plane (or RV-list) doesnt' cost much and
it might let you recover a bit more than core prices
for your hardware.
Brand new Presolites are in the $1,000 range . . . sad,
itn't it?
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
*********************************
* Go ahead, make my day . . . *
* Show me where I'm wrong. *
*********************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
>From: Dr John Cocker <jcockeredhumor.com>
>
>I am at the fun stage of connecting hundreds of pieces of wire into
>the back of the panel.
>
>A question - why does the alternator need a switch that is separate from
>the master? I cannot think of any time when I would want one without the
other.
It does not. In fact there are very good reasons for making your
battery master switch a two pole device that brings battery and
alternator on and off together. The only breaker I routinely
suggest on the panel is ALTernator FieLD which can be pull in
the very rare case that an alternator needs to be shut down
manually.
>A separate question. I would like to put a flasher on the Landing light
>and Taxi light so they could alternate. I got the name of a Mr Klee
>from the RV List but he is not at the E mail address, or at the
>telephone number listed.
>
Drop me an SASE and I'll shoot you a schematic and bill of materials
for building and installing your own flasher. Alternatively, I
stock kits.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen ) |
| Subject: | Re: In-flight break-ups. |
You wrote:
>
>
><< The current "No Aerobatics" limitation also stems from the fact
that an
>RV-3
> wing failed during static testing (tests conducted by Van's) at less
than
> the design limit. If my interpretation of this is correct, it
implies that
> a correctly built RV-3 wings could fail if flown within the
previously
> approved design envelope. >>
>
>Your interpretation is not correct. The RV-3 wing will not fail at the
>maximum design load of 6G's. The problem is that the wing is supposed
to hold
>up under a 50% overload (9 G's) and it does not meet that criteria.
The wing
>will not fail if it is flown within the design limits (weight and G
limits)-
>but there is not a big enough margin to meet the FAR's.
>
>Andy Hanna
>
>AHanna2(at)aol.com
>
>
I did read the general letter of 8/26/96 from Gen. Mgr. Bill Bebedict and have
a question.
I'm in the situation where I have skinned wings, built in 77 or 78 (1/8" spar
bars).
During the static test on this type wing/spar, at what loading did the
upper part of the spar compression buckle?
Seems the only way of getting this type up to 9G specs, would be to
attach "anti-buckling" angle to both upper and lower spar bars,
possibly with zig-zagging braces between the upper and lower anges (or
more or stronger
rivets).
Why was the test done with only angles attached to the upper bars?
If possible, please post (or E-mail) me the numbers from the test. I
don't intend to pull more than 5 G, so I might just leave the wings the
way they are.
Finn
finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com
RV 3 kit #488
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Chapter 10 (Tulsa) fly-in |
>The Chapter 10 fly-in (held in Bartlesville, OK) will be Fri/Sat, Sept.
>20-21. Dang, I can't find my mailer with all the details. Anyway, this is
>a large, regional, annual affair. Tulsa's thirty plus RV Builders
>Association members are always rewarded with a large showing of RVs.
>Where is that mailer?
>Mark, can you add to this? (ref starter---$150s in hand may be better than
>$500+ on the net :-)
>Ron Ron Dunn (RV-8 #80078) rdunn(at)ionet.net Broken Arrow, OK
Fellow RVer's,
This is a pretty part of the country and a pretty good fly-in. I went
last year for Sat. There were 10-15 RV's there, as was Bill Benidict.
However, their arrival procedure was a nightmare. They had a temporary
control tower set up and the controller had a heck of a time. I circled
over a spot west of the field for 30 minutes and never could get
acknowledged by the controller as the radio traffic was one giant squeel.
As I had had several cups of coffee before I left, I really needed to get
down. Finally, the controller gave up and suggested that everyone go to the
area southwest of the airport, get in line and make right traffic for 18
(?). This worked much better except there were a few bozos who had to cut in
front of everyone else in the pattern. I guess what I'm saying is, you
might want to check arrival procedures and don't drink anymore coffee than
you can handle.
The only other thing that happpened (grrr) was: I always park with my
flaps down and I got ready to leave Sat afternoon, was all buckled in,
conopy down and latched, etc. and I went to raise my flaps and they wouldn't
raise. Some weenie had run into my right flap hard enough that the leading
edge of the flap was caught on the edge of the wing skin. Any of you who
have completed airplanes know how much force it takes to do this. I was not
a happy camper. You might want to keep an eye on your airplane if it's a RV
(why would anyone want to look at anything else?) :)
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Metal/Fiberglass (!) and English Wheel |
>>P.S. I made a English wheel for a total of $26 that did an excellent job
of
>>making compound curves on the provided rear skirts. I just didn't want to
>>buy out the world's stock of .025 sheet trying to get two right. If anyone
>>is interested in how to make this super cheap wheel, let me know.
Ya know, I usually get my fiberglass parts formed right the first time. If
not, I've always thrown them away. I had NO IDEA that an english wheel would
re-form the parts that don't conform so well. Think of all those vert/horiz
stab fairings that could have been saved! Clever, those limeys and their
wheels...
;^)
check six!
Mark
mlfred(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Where to put the Strobe Power Unit in a -6 |
mine's on the firewall over the center of the X-bracing on the pax side.
Engine not yet installed so I'm hoping it won't interfere with anything
critical in teh way of controls, ducting, etc. I like the way it put 3-1/2
lbs fwd and to the right of center so that's where I hung it and where it
will stay unless it has to go.
BTW, if anyone bought a used supply as I did and now needs cable to install a
remote strobe head, the installation kit is the cheaper way to go (per foot).
A/CSS gets $2.95/ft for the 3 conductor shielded wire but the kit has 60 ft
plus 4 connectors for around $80, I think. I have a fair amount of this
cable left over if anyone needs a piece.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A: stuffing panel -> need a good DG if anyone has a lead on one, also
airspeed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jperri(at)interserv.com |
Same old problem Lyc. IO-360 #1 runs too cold #3 too hot. What is a good
starting size for the air dam on the inlet side for # 1&3?
gunna get this right yet
JMP RV-6 450 hr
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Nuckolls to Join KAB |
Charlie please send me a copy of AEC. I'm starting on an RV-8 and need all
the help i can get.
Thanks
John Bunn
12462 Anchorage Way
Fishers, In 46038
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elon Ormsby <ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov> |
| Subject: | List Use (was Advertising) |
You wrote: (much snipped)... But hey, I can always hit the delete key,
right? Wrong, sorting through the junk takes time, and I hate to delete
unseen messages because of the chance of missing something that could be
helpful.
Bruce Stobbe
-------------------------------------
A very good point Bruce. Deleting does take a lot of time. One of the
reasons is that many times the Subject Line is not reflective of the actual
content. Many times I have started to do a blanket delete and just had to
peek inside before hitting the kill button only to find a real golden nugget
of information that would have been sadly missed if I had done a delete
without reading the message. Also, sometimes the response (with GOOD
information) carries the original subject line that you may have deleted in
the past. Deleting is NOT AS EASY as some listers propose.
DELETE ADVISORY!! from this point on
However, here is the score: Elon = 0, Yes on Advertising = 11. With over
500 listers I was surprised with the response. Only 2-3 people semi-agreed
with me but about 11 people strongly defended the unrestrained use of
selling by individuals and businesses on this list. To defend the use of
4-sale commercials the proponents raised nasty issues like censorship,
self-elected policing, stifling the entrepreneurial spirit - only
mother-hood and apple pie were left out of the fray. IMHO Gary
VanRemortel's response was well thought out and nicely written but came in a
little late in the argument.
So the way I figure it, almost all pilots drive a vehicle. I have hundreds
of high performance auto engine parts that someone must need for their car
or auto engined RV. I surely don't want to deny anybody the opportunity of
buying my good stuff. (now I won't have to truck it to swap meets). I also
figure a lot of pilots are dreaming of that 20 acres to put in a private
strip. I think I'll hook up with a real estate agent and together we can
sell land and car parts on this list. Somehow (according to new builders
hungry for information) it's all related to aviation or building RV's. Of
course, my business plan will have to factor in a "commission" to Matt so he
doesn't hit that big KILL button. Gee, maybe postings will go to 80 per day.
The DEL key people will have a ball!
For Sale:
GPS, hand held moving map, II Morrow, Apollo 900+ (includes software and
cable for Dbase upgrades so it doesn't have to be returned to the factory,
usually a $75 option), padded case, yoke mount, all for $880.
Complete Lakewood hydroformed bell housing for Chev small block, Weber Steel
flywheel(dual 10"&11" bolt pattern) and new GM 11" clutch, pkg $350. 5
each, bare, small blocks, boiled, and guaranteed $25-$150. New 350 forged
steel crank(nitrided)still in the box $515. FI, Camel bump bare heads, too
many to list, $250-$400 per set. (shipping is negotiable)
Elon
ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wbpace(at)adnc.com (Bill Pace) |
| Subject: | TT angle of movement |
I have just finished building my Trim Tab. I have looked through the plans
and manual and don't see any mention of how much it is supposed to be able
to deflect up and down. I'm installing the electric trim, which I
understand reduces the amount of movement over the manual trim, and need to
know where to place the trim tab horn so I get the proper amount of
movement.
As an aside, we all know that Van's puts together a great kit, but his
electric elevator trim has to be the most under-engineered part of the
empennage. If I had to do it again, I would go with the manual trim. What
a pain in the a**.
-----
Bill Pace The only expensive tool
wbpace(at)adnc.com is a cheap tool.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
>Same old problem Lyc. IO-360 #1 runs too cold #3 too hot. What is a good
>starting size for the air dam on the inlet side for # 1&3?
>
>gunna get this right yet
>
>JMP RV-6 450 hr
>
JMP:
This may vary depending on baffle, prop, cowl, etc. etc. but I put a 1" dam
in front of #1 on my 0-360 C/S RV-4 and it balanced things out fairly close.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 215 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jperri(at)interserv.com |
Thanks ... as I remember most I have seen were about 3/4" to 1 "
JMP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Crass Commercialism |
You wrote:
>
>I have refrained from commenting initially (you know how I can get) on this
>subject, partly because it is difficult to shed light and not heat on some
>of these intractable quandries.
<>
>My $.04 (corrected for Ronald Reagan era inflation). Thanks for listening.
>
>Gary VanRemortel
>Vanremog(at)aol.com
>
Boy, Gary, you sure verbalized my thoughts a hell of a lot better than I
could have. I am going to make the ASSumption that the vast majority of us
on the list agree with your 'theme' for addressing advertising, HOPE that
most current and many future advertisers have read this, and SUGGEST that we
drop this thread completely for about a month at least and see how it plays
out. NO COMMENTS requested! :)
Best regards,
Bill Costello
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 | Reserved N97WC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: TT angle of movement |
You wrote:
>
>I have just finished building my Trim Tab. I have looked through the plans
>and manual and don't see any mention of how much it is supposed to be able
>to deflect up and down. I'm installing the electric trim, which I
>understand reduces the amount of movement over the manual trim, and need to
>know where to place the trim tab horn so I get the proper amount of
>movement.
>
>As an aside, we all know that Van's puts together a great kit, but his
>electric elevator trim has to be the most under-engineered part of the
>empennage. If I had to do it again, I would go with the manual trim. What
>a pain in the a**.
>
>-----
>Bill Pace The only expensive tool
>wbpace(at)adnc.com is a cheap tool.
I agree that the electric trim tab is a pain in the derriere to build --
BOTH of the one's I built! :) As defined in the 'plans' they provide, it
virtually forces you to cut corners on the edge distance of the screw holes
for the cover plate. Did you find this to be true? If anyone from Van's is
reading this, I wish they would re-engineer the elec trim tab.
Regarding movement, (I hope some of you flyers will verify or correct this)
I have a gut feeling that the movement in operation will be a very small
amount away from center. The plans sheet I received shows the control horn
mounted as far to the front of the tab as you can get a solid platform.
Then it is cut so that it angles forward and the attach hole for the control
arm is almost directly below (slightly to the rear of) the hinge line.
As I recall from radio control building with servos, if the attach hole is
directly below the hinge line, I think that will cause two good things to
happen. 1. There will be minimum 'up and down' movement of the control arm
as it moves forward and back. 2. The movement of the rear edge of the trim
tab will be the same for the same amount of forward or back motion of the
control arm (that is, the sensitivity of control for 'up' or 'down' trim
will be the same). I am assuming this is a good thing!
Cheez, this got long. Hope it helps.
Bill Costello
bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
Building RV-6 | Reserved N97WC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6a canopy type |
I have an early pop up canopy with the gas strut mod, and am very happy with
it.
I have occasion to fly a SIX-A with the slider, and I find the visibility to
be quite inferior to that of the pop-up. The windshield frame always seems to
be where I want to look, and the cockpit seems more cramped. I have also
whacked my head on the latching handle quite a few times, and it hurts! I
also find the slider much draftier than the pop-up, although a good tight
seal is possible with the slider. Regarding canopy jettison with gas struts,
I think once the front of the canopy is released and allowed to catch the
airstream, those little metal clips that hold the struts to the balls are
going to let go - right now.
Happy Landings
Bill Mahoney
Sherman, CT
RV-6
N747W
#20477
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino) |
| Subject: | Re: List Use (was Advertising) |
Elon,
Now let's try to be resonalble! Is there really any use for a lakewood
bellhousing
on an airplane? By the way, what are the casting numbers on those heads? :)
Jim Cimino
jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com
>You wrote: (much snipped)... But hey, I can always hit the delete key,
>right? Wrong, sorting through the junk takes time, and I hate to delete
>unseen messages because of the chance of missing something that could be
>helpful.
>Bruce Stobbe
>-------------------------------------
>
>A very good point Bruce. Deleting does take a lot of time. One of the
>reasons is that many times the Subject Line is not reflective of the actual
>content. Many times I have started to do a blanket delete and just had to
>peek inside before hitting the kill button only to find a real golden nugget
>of information that would have been sadly missed if I had done a delete
>without reading the message. Also, sometimes the response (with GOOD
>information) carries the original subject line that you may have deleted in
>the past. Deleting is NOT AS EASY as some listers propose.
>
>
>DELETE ADVISORY!! from this point on
>
>However, here is the score: Elon = 0, Yes on Advertising = 11. With over
>500 listers I was surprised with the response. Only 2-3 people semi-agreed
>with me but about 11 people strongly defended the unrestrained use of
>selling by individuals and businesses on this list. To defend the use of
>4-sale commercials the proponents raised nasty issues like censorship,
>self-elected policing, stifling the entrepreneurial spirit - only
>mother-hood and apple pie were left out of the fray. IMHO Gary
>VanRemortel's response was well thought out and nicely written but came in a
>little late in the argument.
>
>So the way I figure it, almost all pilots drive a vehicle. I have hundreds
>of high performance auto engine parts that someone must need for their car
>or auto engined RV. I surely don't want to deny anybody the opportunity of
>buying my good stuff. (now I won't have to truck it to swap meets). I also
>figure a lot of pilots are dreaming of that 20 acres to put in a private
>strip. I think I'll hook up with a real estate agent and together we can
>sell land and car parts on this list. Somehow (according to new builders
>hungry for information) it's all related to aviation or building RV's. Of
>course, my business plan will have to factor in a "commission" to Matt so he
>doesn't hit that big KILL button. Gee, maybe postings will go to 80 per day.
>The DEL key people will have a ball!
>
>For Sale:
>
>GPS, hand held moving map, II Morrow, Apollo 900+ (includes software and
>cable for Dbase upgrades so it doesn't have to be returned to the factory,
>usually a $75 option), padded case, yoke mount, all for $880.
>
>Complete Lakewood hydroformed bell housing for Chev small block, Weber Steel
>flywheel(dual 10"&11" bolt pattern) and new GM 11" clutch, pkg $350. 5
>each, bare, small blocks, boiled, and guaranteed $25-$150. New 350 forged
>steel crank(nitrided)still in the box $515. FI, Camel bump bare heads, too
>many to list, $250-$400 per set. (shipping is negotiable)
>
>Elon
>ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Re: Where to put the Strobe Power Unit in a -6 |
>BTW, if anyone bought a used supply I have a fair amount of this
>cable left over if anyone needs a piece.
>
>Bill Boyd
Bill,
Where did you get your used power supply?
Ross Mickey
rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314(at)AZStarNet.com (Tom Sargent) |
| Subject: | Re: Future of Aviation Navigation |
> you wrote:
>SATNAV IS HOT, NAVAIDS ARE NOT FAA
>Administrator David Hinson has approved a GPS transition plan that will
>phase out most current ground-based navigation systems by
>2010....Augmentation systems to enhance GPS accuracy and integrity are
>expected to be in place in five years, the FAA said.
>----------------------------------------
What do they mean by "Augmentation systems to enhance .. integrity"?
I've been assuming they'd retain the VOR transmitters for those rare cases
where you just happen to have inadequate satellite coverage. You need a
back-up system.
Are they actually going to launch more satellites? That's pretty expensive
too.
---
Tom Sargent, Tucson, AZ, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: TT angle of movement |
>Regarding movement, (I hope some of you flyers will verify or correct this)
>I have a gut feeling that the movement in operation will be a very small
>amount away from center. The plans sheet I received shows the control horn
>mounted as far to the front of the tab as you can get a solid platform.
>Then it is cut so that it angles forward and the attach hole for the control
>arm is almost directly below (slightly to the rear of) the hinge line.
>
>
>Cheez, this got long. Hope it helps.
>
>Bill Costello
>bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
>
>--
>
>Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Chicago | 312-445-1246
>Building RV-6 | Reserved N97WC
>
>
>
Bill and others:
I find that the trim tab on my -6 only needs to move about 3/4" total
depending on aircraft loading.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Hot/or/cold (Gripe!!) |
>Thanks ... as I remember most I have seen were about 3/4" to 1 "
>
>JMP
>
>
Just a small gripe but I gotta do it anyway.
Maybe I have a small irritation factor but when I get a posting like the one
above I'm lefting wondering what was 3/4" to 1". Is it a personal problem
or what? Is it diameter or length??
If just part, please not all, of the original posting were included to give
us a hint of WHAT was being discussed it would really help keep my BP down.
Also, please include your email address in your signature. I have email
software that allows you to make a 'signature' that will automatically be
inserted at the end of the letter.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrenches |
Jeff Blackman jeffreyb(at)ix.netcom.com wrote:
> Dave......I thought all Craftsman tools had a lifetime guarentee. Is
>this not true????
It's certainly not true for their torque wrenches.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
finishing kit on order
fuselage out of the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark D Hiatt" <OttoPilot_MSN(at)msn.com> |
Aside from the big kit on page five of the Avery catalog,
what else should someone get because they'll be needing it
anyway and they'd like to take advantage of that discount?
I don't know what's coming up, aside from the videos, and I'm
not real sure what components I want in my Big Tool Kit (2x
gun? 3x gun? But the day is coming when I'll start-to-get-started
and I'd hate to get to some point when things are moving along
nicely and discover that I could be/should be doing things better,
easier, or faster if only I'd bought the Cleco Pouch or the Jig
Fixture Brackets or something.
What was the first thing that went into everyone's second order
to Avery, in other words?
Mark D Hiatt
Aviation Forum Manager,
The Microsoft Network.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
Aside from the big kit on page five of the Avery catalog,
what else should someone get because they'll be needing it
anyway and they'd like to take advantage of that discount?
I don't know what's coming up, aside from the videos, and I'm
not real sure what components I want in my Big Tool Kit (2x
gun? 3x gun? But the day is coming when I'll start-to-get-started
and I'd hate to get to some point when things are moving along
nicely and discover that I could be/should be doing things better,
easier, or faster if only I'd bought the Cleco Pouch or the Jig
Fixture Brackets or something.
What was the first thing that went into everyone's second order
to Avery, in other words?
Mark D Hiatt
Aviation Forum Manager,
The Microsoft Network.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Byron Ward <award(at)tardis.svsu.edu> |
Just as a personal opinion, I think that since this list is so builders
help each other, if you have something to offer material-wise that could
help someone else, why not post it?
just my 2 cents
On Thu, 5 Sep 1996, Randall Henderson
wrote:
> I don't think people should advertise stuff on the list. For example,
> if I had, say, a 3" yoke for a Tatco hand squeezer for sale, in good
> condition, for, oh, $50 ($65 new from Cleveland), y'know, just for the
> sake of argument, I would never think of posting it here....
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Hiatt <hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrics... |
r.acker wrote:
>
> Listers:
>
> I found this on rec.aviation.homebuilt. Has anybody looked into this, have
> other comments?
>
> >ARE YOU WIRING UP A HOMEBUILT AIRCRAFT?
> >
> >if so, then you should investigate our new product, the EXP-BUS. This
> >product can save a lot of time and money wiring up a project. For more
> >information on the specific product, see our web page at
> >http://www.controlvision.com
> >
> >HOW DO "SOLID STATE FUSES" WORK?
> >The purpose of the limiter is identical to that of the breaker, to shut
> >off whenever too much current is being drawn from a particular circuit.
> >Technically, the devices used are very non-linear thermistors with a
> >positive temperature coefficient (PTC). When excess current is drawn, the
> >PTC device heats up and becomes a poor conductor of electricity. This
> >shuts down the offending circuit. These components are UL recognized, and
> >manufactured by a major US component manufacturer.
> >
> >AN EXAMPLE
> >Suppose that a wire leading to a nav light is chafing against a grounded
September 01, 1996 - September 08, 1996
RV-Archive.digest.vol-bv