RV-Archive.digest.vol-ca
October 16, 1996 - October 24, 1996
Hole". The
> RV was said to be in excellent condition and opinion is the airplane
had no
> known mechanical problems.
>
> They crashed about ? mile from the airport. The Keith's where great
people and
> loved flying. They will be extremely missed.
>
> Ron Caldwell
> (RV-6A N655RV Reserved)
> RLCaldwell(at)chq.byu.edu
>
>
My wife and I were very saddened to read about the deaths of Dennis and
Joy Keith. We met them last year at Copperstate '95, and we also stayed
at the same hotel. We spent quite a bit of time visiting with them at
the show and hotel as they were a super couple, and their 'Southwest'
decor RV-6A was definitely a work of art. We were very much looking
forward to seeing them again this year, and when we didn't see them by
midday Saturday, we figured that they were off flying, enjoying other
parts of the country............One thing that we have always remembered
(while we build) were Dennis' thoughts on starting his RV project: He
said "I saw no reason why our airplane, inside and out, couldn't look as
nice as any of those beautiful Glasair and Lancair award winning
airplanes." With that in mind, he went about the process of building
their airplane. And Dennis was right: At the awards banquet last year,
the Keiths were awarded plaques for 'Best of Show - Metal Kitbuilt' as
well as 'Lady's Choice'. We will always remember Dennis and Joy, and
N16DK.
Paul & Victoria Rosales
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fairing for rudder cable |
Warren ,
Becki and I make rudder cable fairings for the RV's ,you can get them direct
from us or from Avery's. If you have any question please write or call us at
817-439-3280.........George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
Dick ,
My only advice is to bend the two longerons together at the same time . Even
if they are not just right , at least they will be the same....George
Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Quickbuild photos on web page, W-413 issue, prime aileron tubes |
I finally scanned and uploaded the photos of construction of my RV-6A
quickbuild. There are photos of the fuselage and the wings pretty much as
they came out of the box for those who are curious. The photos are at
http://members.aol.com/capntim/rv.htm
An issue for quickbuilders to be aware of: The plans call for a row of 5
rivets to attach W-413 (inboard aileron mount) to the rear wing spar. On
the quickbuild there are 4 holes already drilled thru the stub rib and
spar. My solution (coordinated with Tom @ Van's) was to put seven rivets
in the row (one new rivet between each of the existing holes), but I had
an edge distance problem I was correcting. Tom told me I could have
flush riveted the stub rib to the spar, then drilled 5 holes for the
W-413. My W-413 was almost eactly under the stub rib, so that wouldn't
have worked for me.
>Just wondering if anyone/everyone has been priming the inside of the
>aileron push rods. Thanks !
I did. I poured a little in there, taped one end shut, and sloshed it
around.
Tim
(drive the rivet, drill the rivet, drive the rivet, drill the rivet,
replace with bolt. Repeat)
-------------------------------
Capt Tim Lewis
Kelly AFB, TX 210-442-4237
lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil
or capntim(at)aol.com
COML ASEL IA
RV-6AQ #60023
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fairing for rudder cable |
Warren,
These things are so simple to make and come out so nice why not give it
a try yourself. I took a piece of 3/4" wood dowel, held it up against
my sander (I do hate wood dust in my shop) till it had a blunt taper
about what I wanted, then formed a piece of .025 around it with my
plastic mallet. It worked great. I've heard of other guys using dead
soft AL which certainly would be more malluable (sp?) but I did't find
it necessary and I had the .025 in my scrap box.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
On Tue, 15 Oct 1996 tcplink.nrel.gov!gretzw(at)matronics.com wrote:
> Who makes and sells the BEST fairing for where the rudder cables exit
> the tailcone?
>
> Warren Gretz
> RV-6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Garage Door Installation |
What's all this about garage door installations?
;-)
check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
I've got more info on that RV-4 sitting out at AEG.
asking price $42,500 (I bet this is negociable)
DOM: 7/4/86
N906R
O320-D3G 1378.57hrs 75lbs or better all cylinders
L12740-39A
Yearly conditional inspection 24June96
Terra Nav-com, mode C (Collins), BFG Loran
new tires
wood prop (the sun has beaten the urathane off it)
885 TT airframe
contact: Tom Rogers w505.842.7070 h505.831.6229
________________________________________________________________________________
>I am about to bend the Longerons for my 6A and am looking for any tips you
>builders might have. I understand that the angle twists as it bends, and
>would expect that doing more small bends and twist corrections would be
>better than fewer larger ones. Is this correct? Any other helpful hints?
>
Dick; I finally settled on clamping the longeron to a table top. then I
used a hammer to drive a wooden wedge between the table and the longeron
towards a clamp where I wanted the bend. At X distance from the clamp I
wanted the long. to be Y distance above the table. With the wedge in place,
and the measurement right, taking the wedge out the longer. springs back, so
it wasn't enough. After a few tries, the 'over bend' became apparent before
taking the wedge out. While still in the clamp, and after each bend, I used
a large adjustable end wrench to 'rotate' the twist back to what it should
be. A lot of trial here, but it worked.
Yes, I did a lot of small bends.
this seemed a little more accurate than just swinging on the end of the
longeron with my light weight. Have fun.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing distance |
>Hi all,
>
>I am feeling very nervous about the spacing between the F-604 and F-605
>bulkheads. This is the spacing between the main spar to the lower spar.
>What is the tolerance here?
>Where exactly should the measurement be made on the wing?
>
>Thanks
>
>Royce Craven
>roycec(at)ozemail.com.au
>
Royce; I can appreciate your concern. This measurement worried me more than
any other one in the construction process. I measured from every imaginable
point, front of front to rear of rear, back of front to front of rear etc.
I was very careful at the root of the spars (where they go into the rib)
because in my mind, I felt that there may be a little give at the inside
ends but none at the rib point. The moment of truth came, and first thing
was that the main spar would not slide in far enough, so back out. Final
solution- a little old time axle grease on the main spar, and in it went.
The rear spar I could maybe get a sheet of paper between the stub and spar.
Don't know what the tolerance is, but that was OK for this country boy.
Lot's of luck.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuselage jig |
>From John Lucas: You may have some luck by contacting Capt. James R.
Armstrong (Braniff Airlines Retired and 86years old)...He just built a RV-6,
flys everywhere and lives a lot closer to you (Grapevine, Tx.). Just north
of DFW airport..Try 817-481-3459...I went to work for Braniff in 1969 and
never met the man...his flying career was highlighted in the current issue
of BISE magazine...dates back to 1927 and I will send you a copy if you
wish...good luck...jwl...
>Bob Skinner wrote:
>>
>> >It has been a while since I posted my progress: I
>> >have now completed the emmpenage and the wings. I
>> >have started to inventory the fuselage and
>> >finishing kits. I am looking for a fuselage jig
>> >from somebody in south texas. Still planning to
>> >finishing this plane by end of 1998.
>> >
>> >Gus
>>
>> Gus, It's probably a little far away from you but John Stewart from
>> Burlington, CO had his fuselage jig for sale. I believe it's made out of
>> glued and/or screwed plywood that was laminated togehter. I saw it many
>> months ago and it was a thing of beauty. It displays the same craftsmanship
>> as his good looking RV-6A. His phone number is 719-346-8741.
>>
>> Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.comBob,
>I spoke with John about the fuselage jig last night. It does sound very
good, however,
>it is just too far away from me. I t would take me about 20 hours one way
to drive up
>there. So, I am still going to be looking for a jig arounf SOUTH TEXAS
closer to
>VICTORIA.
>
>We did have agood conversation about his project.
>
>Thank you very much for the information.
>
>Gus
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | IFR Approach Plates |
One more thing and I'll get to work! Does anyone know if/were
IFR Approach/Depature Plates are available on the net?
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Hollendorfer <phredyh(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Workshop Space (was Electric Trim) |
> Fred,
>
> I am doing what you intend to do. I've built the empenage and wings and
> have my RV-6 fuselage in the jig in my half of the garage. There was
> plenty of room to do the empenage and wings. The fuselage jig makes
> things a little tight but I do have a 28-inch deep workbench along the
> side of the garage. With the wife's car is out, I use the vacated space
> for a small wheeled work bench and my tool cart.
>
> I mounted my vise, drill press, bandsaw, and grinder/polishing wheel on
> an approx 3-foot square roll-around cart that can be stowed out of the
> way when not in use. It fits in front of the car. I got the cart
> design from an article by Tony Bengalis in Sport Aviation several years
> back.
>
> Bob Hall
> rjhall(at)kktv.com
Bob,
Thanx for the quick note. Thats exactly what I needed to hear. My back
issues of Sport Aviation don't go back beyond the Spring of this year.
Would you by any chance happen to remember which issue that cart design
artical was in or perhaps maybe he has written about that very subject
in one of his many publications you might have come across.
Keep the greasy side down & pointy end Forward.
Thanx again, Fred>
--
FC Hollendorfer
RV-8
Garage & Tools
phredyh(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron push rod |
>Hi all,
>Just wondering if anyone/everyone has been priming the inside of the aileron
>push rods. Thanks !
>
>Scott Engelhart
>RV6-A in WI
>
>
>
Ahhhhhhh, not a primer thread again :)
I primed all interior walls of my push-pull tubes. Just mix up some
variprime, or whatever primer you use, and pour it into tubing. As it is
running down, rotate the tube to get full coverage. The whole operation
should take about 15 minutes.
-Scott Gesele N506RV
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Downloading question |
I have noticed that AOL downloads a file into my download file from the
RV-list called " RVLISTFL.Dat. I am clueless as to what it is or how to
access it? If someone could enlighten me I would approeciate it.
RV4Brown(at)Aol.COM
COMPLETING WINGS RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
Dick,
I used a Black & Decker Workmate to form the angles. Used strap clamps to
hold the workmate to the outside wall between the garage doors. Used Van's
dimensions for the bends. Clamped the Alum. angle in the workmate and with
the help of my bride and a big rubber tire hammer did the deed. Caution: on
short lengths have the bride hold the angle with lots of padding! The
vibrations can cause a lot of discomfort to the holder. Worked for me. Bruce
Bell RV-4 #2888 rv4bell(at)aol.com I see you already have some mail on this.
I check my mail before retiring each night and every morning but seem to be
the last to get the word!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian McShurley <bmcshurley(at)www.sfgate.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Full Feathering (was New Sub) |
Elon_Ormsby wrote:
>
> Regarding Brian McShurley's S-51 Mustang:
>
> BTW Brian, I didn't get a chance to offer my congratulations when you first
> introduced yourself to the list. Just think, the S-51 is an Aluminum
> airplane, a beautiful scale Mustang and a cast iron CHEVY big block up
> front. It can't get any better than that! Opps, don't let the Alternate
> Engine folks know I said that! :-)
Thanks for the kind words......And, your "secret" is safe with me...Hey,
Paul Lamar et. al. is not educated enough to find this list!!!! Good
thing!!!!!
>
> I was wondering why do you limit your stops to 55 degrees of pitch and not
> take advantage of the full-feathering feature? Especially since you
> indicated it will not windmill due to the PSRU and also the drag from the
> prop. Could you accidently go full feathering while under power and is that
> dangerous? I have heard of turbine drivers using beta pitch as a dive brake!
>
> Elon
> ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
Actually, Hartzell sets up the props and hubs, and they expressed the
concern regarding feathering. Apparently, as I understand it, as a prop
blade increases in angle it reaches a point where it begins to
cavitate. With a 91" 4 blade prop, 2 blades are always at a higher
angle of pitch in relationship to the relative wind. This causes the
blades to flap. This phenomenon is common in helicopter main rotors and
requires a complex hub arrangement to individually control blade pitch.
In our case, it is much easier (and a common practice) to simply install
high pitch stops to keep the prop from reaching this critical angle.
BTW, we recently tested a set (3) of cut down King Air props with
terrible results as the counterweights overpowered the governor.
Hartzell worked their "magic" on these and the subsequent tests flown 2
weeks ago were impressive. With the airplane on the step, we saw 330
MPH on the GPS. WOW!!!! We still have one more to test which has even
more twist in the blades which may produce even better results. By
using a cut down King Air Prop, we can have these for considerably less
than the $18K for a new one!!
Hope this answers your question. If not, let me know.
Brian McShurley / bmcshurley(at)sfgate.com / S-51D / N514BM Reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Terminal composition (avoid dissimilar metal corrosion) |
I need to attach the ground wire for my pitot tube heater (and
position/strobe lights) to the aircraft structure. I'm wondering what
kind of ring terminals to buy. I believe the terminals mentioned in the
Aero Electric Connection (available from DigiKey) are copper core, tin
covered. Won't that lead to dissimilar metal corrosion, (with copper wire
crimped in a tin/copper terminal, which connects to an aluminum
airframe rib using a steel screw)?
A friend of mine says that stainless steel terminals exist. Would that
help? Should I also use stainless steel screws to attach the terminal to
the airframe?
Thanks,
Tim
-------------------------------
Capt Tim Lewis
Kelly AFB, TX 210-442-4237
lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil
or capntim(at)aol.com
COML ASEL IA
RV-6AQ #60023
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.co.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Sending Pictures to Van's |
If you are sending pictures in to Van's that may get published, make
sure that there are no ink-stamps or dark writing on the backs. These
tend to show through and mess up the picture. Use some other method to
caption your pictures.
FKJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: O-320H2AD engine mount mod |
>I would caution against this approach for folks not going the quickbuild
>route (don't know enough about the QBs to speak about 'em!). I was very
>concerned about having my engine mount correctly positioned on my
>firewall, and especially with the weldments behind the firewall that the
>engine mount bolts to. After a lot of thought,I followed other builders'
>advice and bought my engine mount early so I could matchdrill this entire
>assembly while it was flat on the workbench versus mounted in the jig
>(how to hold the engine mount in the correct position?) This ensured my
>mount is correctly positioned with good edge distances on the engine
>mount weldments, and it was easy to do.
>
>Can't say it couldn't be done otherwise, but this was a simple way to
>align the mount properly.
I can't agree with you on this one. Why go through the extra hassle of
getting the mount with the fuselage? My engine mount was drilled according
to the sequence in the manual, after the fuse was upright. This was one of
the least "painful" processes of construction. The mount is relatively
light and can be held in place with clamps. My brother helped hold it and
double checked my measuring. The whole process took about an hour and the
mount is exactly where it should be.
-Scott Gesele N506RV
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron push rod |
<< Just wondering if anyone/everyone has been priming the inside of the
aileron
push rods. Thanks !
>>
I did. spray some Zinc Chromate into the tube while blowing compressed air
into it. Do this on both ends and you should be fine.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | "Bad" new engines |
Well, my new 0-320 is back from the shop and minus a little paint, is as good
as new. My serial number was affected, and was opened up for inspection.
I assisted in the operation (and it gave me some time to do some of those
little things like removing the C/S oil line and governor gear, and
protecting some of the wiring a little better) and was chagrined to find that
all of the piston pins were fine.
However, I did get to "taxi" N427EM for the first time. (So I had a tug
attached to my front end, big deal)
Oh well, I'm back in business until the next AD...
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing distance |
<< I am feeling very nervous about the spacing between the F-604 and F-605
bulkheads. This is the spacing between the main spar to the lower spar.
Any good tricks and hints to match gthe spacing with the wing from thoes
that have successfully fitted their wings would be gratefully received.
What is the tolerance here?
Where exactly should the measurement be made on the wing?
>>
Hi Royce. You definately want to be carefull here. I can't imagine anything
more horrific than sliding your wings in for the first time and finding the
rear spar doesn't fit.
Luckily, this isn't too difficult. I measured from the front of the front
spar to the rear side of the rear spar, and also from the rear of the front
spar to the front of the rear spar just to be safe. Then transition those
measurements to the socket faces of the bulkheads. (don't forget to angle the
front bulkhead!) I even had someone else measure it to double (quadruple)
check my measurements.
I may be paranoid, but my wings fit great! I just drilled for the rear spar
bolt last week, and my incidence and edge distances came out perfect without
any adjustment. I'm sure this involed a healthy dose of luck, but being
carefull in this area will pay big dividends later on.
Regards,
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: CS vs FP Props (fwd) |
Hal, I think your summary is correct.
The reason is that the fixed pitch is quite a bit lighter so the
aircraft should climb better with the correct pitch fixed pitch prop.
Likewise, it would cruse faster with the correct pitch fixed pitched
prop. The problem is all fixed pitch props must be a compromise
so you pick a pitch that is not best for either.
The CS can be adjusted by the pilot to meet the needs of climb or
cruse but at the added expense and weight and complexity.
I think the 3 blade has lower top speed due to the fact that it
has more flat plate area. They will climb faster and also will
have lower noise.
Herman
dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
>
> I know you all understand airplane engineering better than I do so let me ask
you if
> I have this right:
>
> I have a Beech Debonair (later called the F33 Bonanza) with a Continental 225
> engine and a two blade constant speed prop.
>
> I was told that a three blade prop (a popular option) would *LOWER* top speed
> but improve climb performance.
>
> I suspect that a fixed pitch prop twisted to give maximum speed would be faster
> than a constant speed prop of the same blade length on the same aircraft at any
> setting. Have I got this right?
>
> Also, I suspect that a fixed pitch prop twisted to give maximum climb would
> climb better than a constant speed prop of the same blade length on the same
> aircraft at any setting. Have I got this right too?
>
> When I moved from rented Cherokees to the Debonair, I discovered the constant
> speed prop and we immediately became friends. Well, not quite immediately as
I
> found it difficult to find instructors who could explain it.
>
>
> Hal Kempthorne
> Debonair N6134V @ SJC
> halk(at)sybase.com
> "Look Ma at what I can save with an RV-6A"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A.F. Aguirre" <aguirres(at)icsi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage jig |
ibm.net!lhlucas(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> >From John Lucas: You may have some luck by contacting Capt. James R.
> Armstrong (Braniff Airlines Retired and 86years old)...He just built a RV-6,
> flys everywhere and lives a lot closer to you (Grapevine, Tx.). Just north
> of DFW airport..Try 817-481-3459...I went to work for Braniff in 1969 and
> never met the man...his flying career was highlighted in the current issue
> of BISE magazine...dates back to 1927 and I will send you a copy if you
> wish...good luck...jwl...
>
> >Bob Skinner wrote:
> >>
> >> >It has been a while since I posted my progress: I
> >> >have now completed the emmpenage and the wings. I
> >> >have started to inventory the fuselage and
> >> >finishing kits. I am looking for a fuselage jig
> >> >from somebody in south texas. Still planning to
> >> >finishing this plane by end of 1998.
> >> >
> >> >Gus
> >>
> >> Gus, It's probably a little far away from you but John Stewart from
> >> Burlington, CO had his fuselage jig for sale. I believe it's made out of
> >> glued and/or screwed plywood that was laminated togehter. I saw it many
> >> months ago and it was a thing of beauty. It displays the same craftsmanship
> >> as his good looking RV-6A. His phone number is 719-346-8741.
> >>
> >> Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.comBob,
> >I spoke with John about the fuselage jig last night. It does sound very
> good, however,
> >it is just too far away from me. I t would take me about 20 hours one way
> to drive up
> >there. So, I am still going to be looking for a jig arounf SOUTH TEXAS
> closer to
> >VICTORIA.
> >
> >We did have agood conversation about his project.
> >
> >Thank you very much for the information.
> >
> >Gus
> >
> >Thanks for the reply on this. I just called Jim and
left a message.
Gus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Wing distance |
> I am feeling very nervous about the spacing between the F-604 and F-605
> bulkheads. This is the spacing between the main spar to the lower spar.
You mean the aft spar, don't you? Or do you always plan to be flying
straight up.... :-)
> Any good tricks and hints to match gthe spacing with the wing from thoes
> that have successfully fitted their wings would be gratefully received.
I just measured carefully with a 36" aluminum rule. I would just
recommend being as precise as possible when jigging up the bulkheads,
and re-measure as you get parts fitted in there. Measure the distance
at the wing root.
One mistake I made was I forgot to flute the F615 ribs to match the
curve of the fuselage between the bulkheads (see dwg 33, section I-I'),
until after I had them all fitted and drilled. After I put the curve in
the ribs, it shortened the distance between the bulkheads by almost
1/16". This was easily fixed however by adding .063 spacers between the
aft end of the ribs and the F605 bulkhead. I'm not sure it's even that
critical to have this curve in the rib but I think the skin wouldn't lie
right without it.
> What is the tolerance here?
Don't know, I haven't actually put the wings on yet!
> Where exactly should the measurement be made on the wing?
I measured square from the main spar, back to the aft spar, just
outboard of the wing skin.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: 1 Pc. Wing Skins |
> I read somewhere that Van was offering 1 pc. wing skins, but they were
> not advertised. Does anyone know:
>
> 1. If they are offered for the RV-8, and RV-6A?
>
> 2. Are they pre-drill (punched)?
>
> 3. Do they pose a shipping problem?
>From the rv-list FAQ:
Van's supplies single piece top skins but doesn't advertise the fact
as they aren't set up to ship pieces that large -- you have to arrange
your own shipping or go pick them up. Advantages include easier
alignment with the spar and somewhat better appearance since there's no
joint. Disadvantages include shipping hassles, the addition of approx.
23 oz extra weight per panel, not pre-punched, and some extra cost. You
do get the trim from the full 12'x4' sheets -- some pretty big chunks
of aluminum that can be used to fabricate other parts, or sell to your
local A&P. Some people have opted to just get a sheet of .032 2024-T3 from
other sources and make them themselves.
I have one piece wing skins on my -6 wings. But I wouldn't do it again
now that the two-piecers are pre-punched.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BestBillO(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engines & Props |
Rusty Gossard
Rusty, my TAS with 160/cs on my 6A is pretty consistently 195 - 200 mph, 2400
rpm, full MP, and I'm burning between 7.5 - 8 gph, usually 8 - 10,000' MSL.
My right foot is pretty active on takeoff, too, but I was able to assist it
a little with a 4" balsa-wood wedge taped on with 2 sided carpet tape, acting
as a trim tab. Very effective, and changeable to various sizes without
making any mark on the rudder, whatsoever. While I wish I had the 180, I
love the fuel burn rate, as measured on the Vision Microsystems VM-1000
system, on my 160.
PS. any CHT cooling problems with your induction system?
Regards,
Bill Orcutt
RV-6A, N911RV
BestBillO(at)AOL.Com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Garage Door Installation (chatter) |
<< What's all this about garage door installations?
;-)
check six!
Mark
>>
It's for access to the 2 car baggage compartment on the RV-6. :-)
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikeb(at)lsil.com (Mike Brogley) |
| Subject: | Re: Garage Door Installation |
I was wondering...
What kind of primer should I use on my Garage Door?
--
Mike Brogley
San Jose, CA, USA / Avery backorderer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Engines & Props |
>
>Rusty, my TAS with 160/cs on my 6A is pretty consistently 195 - 200 mph, 2400
>rpm, full MP, and I'm burning between 7.5 - 8 gph, usually 8 - 10,000' MSL.
> My right foot is pretty active on takeoff, too, but I was able to assist it
>a little with a 4" balsa-wood wedge taped on with 2 sided carpet tape, acting
>as a trim tab. Very effective, and changeable to various sizes without
>making any mark on the rudder, whatsoever. While I wish I had the 180, I
>love the fuel burn rate, as measured on the Vision Microsystems VM-1000
>system, on my 160.
>
>PS. any CHT cooling problems with your induction system?
>
>
>Bill Orcutt
Bill:
No. Typical RV...It's hard to keep warm when it's cool outside..
Regards
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Access Plates |
For removable gasket material, use Buna-N, -- it's purported to be
impervious to avgas.
The main thing I think you have to worry about if you don't use proseal
is sealing the screw holes. Long-Lok Fastner corp, 1-800-Long-Lok) has
a line of self-sealing fasteners, they have an o-ring embedded in
a recess in the head of the screw, and look like they'd work pretty
well.
I still haven't decided which I'll use when I finally seal em up for
good -- either buna-n gaskets and self-sealing machine screws, or a
fiber gasket and proseal.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Increasing useful load |
> If I can lose 30 lbs. on the Nordic Track this winter, I might be
> flexible enough:)
You know, it's not QUITE on topic, but I thought I ought to mention this.
I've heard a lot of pilots joke about being able to increase the amount their
plane can haul by decreasing the weight of the pilot.
A co-worker turned me on to this book called "Enter the Zone" by Dr. Barry
Sears. What was really interesting was that he studied the hormonal effects
of food, and his results were astonishing. Carbohydrates, for example, are
turned into sugars by the body, which then causes a surge in insulin which
takes all that sugar out of your bloodstream and tucks it away in your fat
tissues. Get enough insulin in your bloodstream, and your brain gets deprived
of glucose and you get this incredible urge to take a nap. Protein does the
opposite, sort of, with a hormone called Gulcagon. The trick was to balance
the two, which means for every 4 grams of carbs you eat 3 grams of protein.
The amounts aren't as critical as that ratio.
It was really interesting, especially where he points out how bad all of the
"Healthy" diets that are going around are, like one high in pasta diet that
has the same carb/protein ratio as a Snickers bar. Fat, it turns out, is not
what makes you fat, although the high caloric quality of fat will make it
harder to burn off all those sugars. You get fat cows by feeding them grain.
Of course, the most dramatic proof was my co-worker, Bruce, who has lost a
significant amount of weight, and the fact that I was able to take 15 lbs off
myself in about two months (in time to fit my old suit for my little sister's
wedding). At the wedding, I found that my mom has dropped 40 lbs on a diet
that happens to fit the same principles. (You can really force the process by
going really high on protein and trying to eliminate carbs, but it's not very
good for you to do for long periods).
So why worry about a few pounds of extra primer, when you can slim down enough
to carry a few extra gallons of fuel? :-)
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV Web Page Update |
| From: | John Hovan <hovan(at)apple.com> |
Hi All,
I would like to provide everyone with an update to the RV web pages.
The RV web pages have found a more permanant resting place. The new URL
which should provide greatly enhanced performance can be reached at:
"rv.austin.apple.com"
or
"rv.austin.apple.com/jhovan/home.html"
All previous addresses should point to the new site. Please update all
bookmarks to the new URL's. Additionally, many new photos will be
appearing over the next several weeks which include Herman Dierks RV-4
(Herman has been a steady contributor to this group for years), Seth
Hancock's sub-panel he is selling along with several more completed RV
photo's from various airshows and articles from the web.
enjoy,
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan <daruit(at)span.ch> |
Hi guys & gals!
I'm an long time (actually I have trouble recalling the year I started!)
RV-4 builder. Plans nbr 2062....
As I overheard at Oshkosh some years back, -4 builders/flyers are
fighters, and those hooked on the -6 are lovers...
I started to build in Germany, close to Frankfurt. Then I moved to
Switzerland where I still live. Rebuilt a house, raised cats, dogs and
horse, one hell of a job (accompanying engineer for the major airline),
and finally got divorced. So I will hopefully now have more time to
progress...
Sky-runner is on its gear. I've had it assembled last year and I was
quite surprised to see everything fit! Right now I'm working on the
canopy, trying to fit the bXXXXy aluminum skirts. I have been logging
the building time precisely and have already spent some 3200 (three
tousand and some!) hours on it. No, Alan (Tolle), please don't laugh...
In Switzerland (a very small country!) there are four -4 and one -6 in
the works.
We had one RV-4 flying. The guy spent 4500 hours building it, flew it
some 150 hours. The plane then caught fire on ground following some
engine maintenance, and there was only a very small heap of molten metal
left...
Then we have one RV-3 flying, superb performer behind its 150HP engine
and 3 bladed MT propeller. Unfortunately its builder/pilot died in a
crash in Africa about one year ago and the -3 has been in storage since.
Homebuilding is very active here. For the six million inhabitants, there
are about 70 homebuilts flying and 150 more under construction.
Allright, I hope my introduction wasn't too boring!
Take care & fly safely
Dan Ruiters
Lausanne, Switzerland
daruit(at)span.ch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
| Subject: | Re: Garage Door Installation |
MIKE, Have you learned NOTHING this week. (nice one)
Live long and prosper.
Eric Henson
Dana Point, Ca
(If ya ain't makin waves, ya ain't paddlein)
e.henson(at)netcom.ix.com
----------
From: Mike Brogley
Subject: Re: RV-List: Garage Door Installation
Date: Wednesday, October 16, 1996 12:18PM
>>>I was wondering...
>>>What kind of primer should I use on my Garage Door?
--
Mike Brogley
San Jose, CA, USA / Avery backorderer
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron push rod |
| From: | Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)kewlaid.highfiber.com> |
>Just wondering if anyone/everyone has been priming the inside of the aileron
>push rods. Thanks !
Yes.
Mike Kukulski
kukulski(at)highfiber.com
RV-4 N96MK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | B&C 60 Amp alternator |
Dear all,
I'm in the process of acquiring firewall forward equipment for my 6A. I plan
to use B&C specialty products 60 amp alternator. This is offered by the
company with two different mounts: "case" and "boss". Does anyone have
experience in fitting this beast to a 6 and know which is appropriate?
Thanks in advance,
Leo Davies
leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Steve Frey passed away |
I received a phone call this afternoon from Helen Frey (Mrs. Steven
Frey). She let us know that Steve passed away last night. She commented on
how much support they have received from the aviation community when the news
of Steve's illness was known. As for Becki and I who have had the pleasure
of knowing Steve for many years, he will be missed. Our thoughts go out to
his family and friends. Viewing will be Thursday, October 17 and the funeral
will be Friday, October 18.
Helen did want everyone to know that she intends to continue producing
high quality jigs for the homebuilder industry.
George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: Garage Door Installation |
On Wed, 16 Oct 1996 Mlfred(at)aol.com wrote:
> What's all this about garage door installations?
>
> ;-)
>
> check six!
> Mark
Duhhh... I meant garage door INSULATION, not installation. Actually my
post was about insulation installation, so I wasn't too far off.
Guess I should've checked six!
Curt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron push rod |
Yes
I just poured a couple oz. of primer in the tube, rotated it around, up and
down, etc for a while, and then poured it out. Leave it to drain for a
couple of hours. The interior was clean, at least no fingerprints, so I
didn't bother to do more than this.
The only way to get serious water in the pushrod would have problems that I
can't even start to imagine!
Bruce Patton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | Wood Props on 180 HP Lycoming |
I am getting ready to order my propeller for a 180 HP Lycoming and have not
talked to anyone who has a wood prop on that size engine. It would be
greatly appreciated if anyone flying with that combination could tell us
their experiences. I know of 5 other builders in my location who are
currently wondering the same thing. I would be interested in talking over
the phone if that is easier (email your phone number if you desire).
RV6A project status - Tail Done, Wings Done, Fuselage Skinned, ....
Ready to order engine and prop
Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: Garage Door Installation (chatter) |
On Wed, 16 Oct 1996, Mike Brogley wrote:
> I was wondering...
>
> What kind of primer should I use on my Garage Door?
>
Well, up here in Canada where the temperture is -127 in January, I
recommend at least you etch and allodyne (even if the door is wood),
followed by at least 27 coats of a good epoxy primer, topped off by 1"
thick titanium plating.
Geez, everyone's a comedian. :)
>
Oh no, you're not getting out of this one pal...the penalty for even
mentioning the word "primer" is to recieve 100 emails explaining how to
"GET RICH QUICK". Oh no I said the word primer! AAAgghh I said it again.
Noooo....
> --
> Mike Brogley
> San Jose, CA, USA / Avery backorderer
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Oh sure, some sunny Californian ain't-even-got-his-tools-yet wannabe...;-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New DC Bus Center |
| From: | Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)kewlaid.highfiber.com> |
Any experience or comments regarding the ExpBUS DC Load Center product
from Control Vision Corporation that was featured in the October issue of
SPORT AVIATION?
For those who missed it, it's an aircraft electrical system mounted on a
PC board that incorporates a master switch, avionics master switch, main
bus, and switched outputs for alternator field, beacons/strobes, nav
lights, aux fuel pump, and 2 landing lights. It employs "solid state
protection devices" in lieu of circuit breakers. Price = $249. Lots more
detail on their web site at http://www.controlvision.com.
I called them and requested a brochure to learn more about it. Any of the
electrical engineering experts out there with an opinion on solid state
overload protection vice fuses or circuit breakers?
I'll probably still build my own electrical system for self-education and
understanding of my own airplane, but it seems this would eliminate quite
a bit of work in exchange for maybe just a few more $$.
Mike Kukulski
kukulski(at)highfiber.com
RV-4 N96MK
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | IFR Radio install regs |
Can anyone enlighten me---is it true that if your homebuilt is flown IFR that
the radio
installation has to be done by a certified shop and signed off??? I'm aware
of the need for pitot static checks, xpndr and encoder certification and the
various pilot
vor checks. A friend and fellow 6A builder, who is planning his panel was
told that by an avionics shop that pre builds panels. Thanks in advance.
Larry Scheer
Albany, NY
RV6A
First wing
70% done
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Terminal composition (avoid dissimilar metal corrosion) |
<< I need to attach the ground wire for my pitot tube heater (and
position/strobe lights) to the aircraft structure. I'm wondering what
kind of ring terminals to buy. I believe the terminals mentioned in the
Aero Electric Connection (available from DigiKey) are copper core, tin
covered. Won't that lead to dissimilar metal corrosion, (with copper wire
crimped in a tin/copper terminal, which connects to an aluminum
airframe rib using a steel screw)? >>
C'mon Capt, let's get real here. Although you outrank me, I have to tell you
that proper bonding to structures is covered in some reference books and at
least one Mil-Spec, if you really want to find out in detail what the big
boys do for the heavy iron. If you want to know the spec number I'll have to
get back to you as my fiche catalogs are at work.
For our applications, tin plated terminals are just fine as long as they are
not used in a salt spray laden environment. There are some barrier materials
that will enhance the bonding/grounding site and exclude moisture. If you
are really concerned, coat the terminal connection with some MIL-I-46058,
Type SR conformal coating resin.
Galvanic corrosion is severely curtailed in the absence of an electrolyte.
Stainless terminals may be better in the dissimilar metals department but
they conduct poorly and are not readily available. All the MIL-W-22759/16
airframe wire you are using thruout your plane is copper with tin plating,
what's the big deal. Heck, over 90% of all printed circuit boards are
60%tin-40%lead (solder) over copper.
Sorry for the rambling response, but it's a rambling and nebulous issue.
This is not high on the list of things that keep me up at nite.
Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Terminal composition (avoid dissimilar metal corrosion) |
> I need to attach the ground wire for my pitot tube heater (and
> position/strobe lights) to the aircraft structure. I'm wondering what
> kind of ring terminals to buy. I believe the terminals mentioned in the
> Aero Electric Connection (available from DigiKey) are copper core, tin
> covered. Won't that lead to dissimilar metal corrosion, (with copper wire
> crimped in a tin/copper terminal, which connects to an aluminum
> airframe rib using a steel screw)?
You're supposed to prime at least one of the surfaces when two dissimilar
metals will contact. Try that and you shouldn't have any corrosion
problems.
:-) (if you couldn't guess)
-J
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
14190 47th Ave N.
Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: Wow, That's Some Growth! |
>--------------
>>>I will be adding an additional 16Mb of memory to the SUN system that runs
>>>the RV-List and crunchs that *HUGE* archive file every night, formatting it
>>>in the various forms that are available via the Web and FTP. I will soon be
>>>adding a new high performance 2Gb hard drive since with all the archive
>>>growth, the disk space has been getting a little tight.
>>>
>>> Matt Dralle
>>> RV-List Admin.
>>> Matronics
>
>---------------
>
>>I wonder if it wouldn't be appropriate for some of us to each send Matt
>>$5 to help pay for these additions. I, for one, really appreciate Matt's
>>managing of the list, and it's only fair that those of us who are taking
>>advantage of the list help Matt to cover his costs.
>>
>>If 100 of us each sent Matt $5, that's only 20% of the subscribers, and it
>>should cover the costs of the upgrade.
>>
>>Mine's in the mail today.
>>
>>Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
>
>---------------
>
>>Joe, That's a thoughtful idea. I recently subscribed to the GlaStar list
>>group, which costs $ 5.00. There is probably an average of 1 ro 2 E-mails a
>>day. Of course, it's a new kit with few builder's. I'm in the process of
>>uncrating a Glastar as we speak.
>>
>>Anyway, what's Matt's snail mail address?
>>
>>Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)ltec.net
>
>---------------
>
>>I'm all for it, if Matt will accept the donations. What say ye Matt?
>>
>>Harold
>>A&P//RV-6A Starting on Wings
>
>---------------
>
>>Joe,
>>I for one agree, and I really think we should keep this on a VOLUNTARY =
>>level. I'm sending my check as soon as I can locate Matt's address. =
>>Thanks for the suggestion.
>>
>>Allan W. Mojzisik prober(at)iwaynet.net
>
>---------------
>
>
>
>Well, I would like to thank everyone that has so graciously offered to
>help in the upgrade of the RV-List Server. I will gladly accept contributions
>for the continued support of the RV-List. Operation of the List costs
>on the order of $1200 a year in Internet access and other fees. The
>hardware upgrade is costing about $600.
>
>Your contribution of any amount you feel appropriate will be gladly accepted
>and may be sent to the following US Mail address:
>
>
> Matronics
> PO Box 347
> Livermore, CA 94551
>
> Matt Dralle
> RV-List Admin.
> Matronics
>--------------
RV-Listers,
The response was great. The 'ol PO Box has been quiet for a couple of weeks
now, so I thought it was time that I thanked everyone for supporting the
RV-List with their "subscription"! (I'm told by legal types that since
Matronics is not a non-profit organization, I cannot use the words
"contribution" or "donation" but I think you get the 'idea'.) "Subscriptions"
ranged from $5 - $100 (and also some additional hardware - thanks John Brown!)
for a total of over $700! This kind of support for the List is wonderful, and
is definitely an inspiration to keep it running. Again, I would like to
personally thank each and everyone of you that took the time to support the
List. You are:
Robert Acker, Rudy Albachten, Patrick Allender, Michael Angiulo, Paul Bilodeau,
Warren Branscomb, Michael Brogley, Chris Brooks, John Brown, David Chasnoff,
Robert Chatham, John Ciolino, James Cone, Gene Gottschalk, Kenneth Harril,
Cecil Hatfield, Ian Heritch, Mark Hiatt, Craig Hiers, Kevin Horton,
William Irace, Steve Johnson, Steve Kimura, Michael Kosta, Joseph Larson,
Finn Lassen, Tim Lewis, Donald McNamara, Douglas Meloche, Allan Mojzisik,
Robert Muckasm/Medicine River Press, Dave Mumert, Russell Nichols, Elon Ormsby,
Pruce Patton, Eric Petersen, George Pinneo, James Preston, Tom Sargent,
John Scholl, John Sierchio, Bob Skinner, Kenneth Smith, Ronald Vandervort,
John Walsh, William Watson, Edward Weber, Douglas Weiler, Michael Weller,
Don Wentz, Carl Weston, L. Willie, and Rodney Woodard.
If I missed your name, be sure to let me know.
Thanks again for the support! You're a great group of builders!!!
Matt Dralle
RV-List Admin.
Matronics
PS - As of 10/16/96 the RV-List is 3 members short of 600 people!!!
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin lane <kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Garage Door Installation(chatter) |
Mike Brogley wrote:
>
> I was wondering...
>
> What kind of primer should I use on my Garage Door?
>
> I'd have them professionally painted, could cause an explosion you know!
;-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Props on 180 HP Lycoming |
Scott Johnson wrote:
>
> I am getting ready to order my propeller for a 180 HP Lycoming and have not
> talked to anyone who has a wood prop on that size engine. It would be
> greatly appreciated if anyone flying with that combination could tell us
> their experiences. I know of 5 other builders in my location who are
> currently wondering the same thing. I would be interested in talking over
> the phone if that is easier (email your phone number if you desire).
>
> RV6A project status - Tail Done, Wings Done, Fuselage Skinned, ....
> Ready to order engine and prop
>
> Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
Hi Scott
I am now using a Warnke 72X74 on my 180 hp and really like it a lot, it
is one of the early thin blade versions, I now have about 400 hrs on it,
I get a static rpm of 2350 and flat full out 2850. this prop also has
held up very well in some hard rain storms, paint peels off but no
leading edge or wood.
I have also tried a Sensenich wood, it was ok but did not stand up well
to weather, small amounts of rain tore up the leading edge. I have
also tried a Sterba prop and liked it almost as well as the Warnke
and Ed was a very pleasent person to deal with and worked very hard
to get me the rpm range I wanted and his props are the most resonably
priced, around $400-$500 range versus Warnke $700-$800 range. If I was
to buy a prop again I would go with the Sterba. I am sure there are alot
of other good props out there but that is my experience.
Oh I also tried a Pacesetter for a while but for personal reasons
would not buy or use one again even though I only live 10 miles from
them.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: IFR Radio install regs |
Larry:
Ask the shop to show the Regulation that states that to you. I cannot find
any reference to a requirment like that in my 1993 FAR's for Aviation
Technicians. (See FAR 91.205(a) General, (d) IFR.) The pitot static
certification is required. The Radio Shop that I deal with says that radio
equipment in a experimental does not need to be TSOed. He had a problem with
certification of a pitot static system on a Lancair because of the
MicroEncoder not being TSOed. He phoned the FAA and they told him that
experimentals do not need TSOed equipment. Let me know if you find out
differently and please have the shop quote FAR # and paragraph. I would like
to look it up.
Gary A. Sobek
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Harris <mharris(at)mail.microsys.net> |
| Subject: | RV6a Stab. and Wing kit FOR SALE |
Hi.
Regrettably, at this time my father and I are unable to continue building
the RV6a we started at the beginning of the year. I'd like to thank all the
people on this list who provided much needed advice when we were building a
few months ago. I will keep the tools I think - since I am sure I will
complete an RV some time.
Anyway, this is what we need to sell:
- Complete, unopened Wing Kit - still in the Vans shipping crate. This
wing was delivered to our home in early July and is the latest, pre-punched
version. We selected the electric flap option.
- Partially completed Stab Kit. The HS is complete, the VS is complete,
work begun on both the rudder and right elevator. We selected the electric
trim option for the elevator and allowance for the lights.
We decided to use flush riveting on the HS and VS, and they look pretty good
(even if I do say so myself ;-) All parts primed using DuPont Variprime.
I live in Riverside, So. California.
The price is negotiable, and I might be willing to sell either kit
individually. Please contact me with an offer or any questions you might have.
Cheers
MIKE HARRIS
mharris(at)mail.microsys
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: B&C 60 Amp alternator |
Leo:
I used the B &C 60 on my -6. The narrow deck engine (Standard Cylinder
Flange that uses allen head nuts) that I have is a case mount. The newer
Wide Deck engines (have wide cylinder Flange base with hex nuts) usually use
the case mount. Look at the bottom of the engine and if there is a machined
pad with threaded bolt holes it is a case mount. See page 186 in the
1994-1995 Aircraft Spruce catalog for a picture.
The B & C alternator if the best made one on the market. It is the only one
I found that will bolt on with out modification when used with the B & C
starter. I tried 3 other alternators before I got the B & C. It fit in the
cowl and all the others did not. The pulley that is on the B & C is the
largest that will fit in my Constant Speed cowl with out modification to the
cowl. The Pelican case mount does not have enough room to route the oil line
for the Constant Speed prop. The 55 Amp Bosch would not fit in the cowl with
out extensive modifications.
Good luck.
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 20480 N-157GS
Aerospace Electrical Engineer
FAA Powerplant Mechanic
EAA TEchnical Counselor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Props on 180 HP Lycoming |
rv-list(at)matronics.com,Internet writes:
I am getting ready to order my propeller for a 180 HP Lycoming and have
not
talked to anyone who has a wood prop on that size engine. It would be
greatly appreciated if anyone flying with that combination could tell us
their experiences. I know of 5 other builders in my location who are
currently wondering the same thing. I would be interested in talking
over
the phone if that is easier (email your phone number if you desire).
RV6A project status - Tail Done, Wings Done, Fuselage Skinned, ....
Ready to order engine and prop
Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
Scott,
I have a fuel injected 360 running a Warnke 72*74 prop. Performance is
good. Email me if you have specifics.
Ken RV6A flying
j.ken_hitchmough(at)mail.magic.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: IFR Radio install regs |
>Can anyone enlighten me---is it true that if your homebuilt is flown IFR that
>the radio
>installation has to be done by a certified shop and signed off??? I'm aware
>of the need for pitot static checks, xpndr and encoder certification and the
>various pilot
>vor checks. A friend and fellow 6A builder, who is planning his panel was
>told that by an avionics shop that pre builds panels. Thanks in advance.
>
> Larry Scheer
Larry:
This seems to be one of those areas that is open to interpretation. Guess
which way some of the avionics shops are going to interpret this.....they
want your money.
I asked for and received IFR approval when my aircraft was inspected by the
feds. No problem. You must adhere to the static/transponder 24 month
tests. But for that matter, you must have your transponder tested even for
VFR flight.
I received no such flack from my local avionics shop. I might suggest you
consider paying a couple more bucks from your local shop than buying mail order.
You will find they they are more helpful WHEN YOU NEED THEM if they have
seen you before. (I found I didn't have to pay much more than the mail order
price.)
I'm sure there are some FAR "chapter and verse" guys on the list that can
give you the exact reg on all this.... the reality is you can do the install
but you must adhere to testing regs. Thats the way I read it anyway.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: IFR Radio install regs |
Larry I've never heard of that reg. you are the manufacture of the aircraft
and who better in install the radios. I have had trouble with dealers who
claimed they would not give me the drawings to install the radios. They lost
a sale I went somethere else and they gladly gave me the drawings. It may be
the same with who ever is try to sell who installation .............George
Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: B&C 60 Amp alternator |
Leo,
All of the products that I have recieved from B&C have installed easly , the
only change I had to make to their alternator was to get a smaller belt do to
cowling rub. Keep up the good work....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Gottschalk <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Wow, That's Some Growth! |
Naw, thank you Matt for keeping the list going. It's the most used tool in
my RV construction after Van's drawings and George's tapes! And thanks to
all the other listers who have provided help and inspiration!
-Gene
***Lots of stuff snipped!***
>RV-Listers,
>
>This kind of support for the List is wonderful, and
>is definitely an inspiration to keep it running. Again, I would like to
>personally thank each and everyone of you that took the time to support the
>List.
>Thanks again for the support! You're a great group of builders!!!
>
>Matt Dralle
>RV-List Admin.
>Matronics
>
>PS - As of 10/16/96 the RV-List is 3 members short of 600 people!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ming Ho <mho(at)post.smu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR Radio install regs |
Hello Larry,
> Can anyone enlighten me---is it true that if your homebuilt is flown IFR that
> the radio
> installation has to be done by a certified shop and signed off???
I do not think so, especially if the builder himself (instead of a subsequent
owner) installs the equipment. However, certain avionics companies (such as
King/Bendix in their KX155 line and BFGoodrich) require their dealers to
install the unit or make up the wire harness before they will honor the
warranty.
>>> Ask the shop to show the Regulation that states that to you. I cannot
find any reference to a requirment like that in my 1993 FAR's for Aviation
Technicians. (See FAR 91.205(a) General, (d) IFR.) The pitot static
certification is required. The Radio Shop that I deal with says that radio
equipment in a experimental does not need to be TSOed. He had a problem with
certification of a pitot static system on a Lancair because of the
MicroEncoder not being TSOed. He phoned the FAA and they told him that
experimentals do not need TSOed equipment. Let me know if you find out
differently and please have the shop quote FAR # and paragraph. I would like
to look it up.
>>>
I had no problems in getting the pitot static certification - all it required
as a call from the repair/certification station to Rocky Mountain
(manufacturer of MicroEncoder).
Kind regards,
Ming
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Reeves <dreeves(at)metronet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Garage Door Installation |
Mike Brogley wrote:
> I was wondering...
> What kind of primer should I use on my Garage Door?
>
> Mike Brogley
> San Jose, CA, USA / Avery backorderer
Maybe I could heat my garage with a JATO unit...
--
Doug Reeves
NB665 (tools ordered)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Steve Frey passed away |
I will miss Steven Frey. He was a good man and a brilliant engineer who had
tremendous enthusiasm for the RV series of aircraft. I was proud to have the
first RV-6 to come out of one of Steves jigs. It was a real boost when
Steve would come by to look at my progress. Steve was an important member of
the RV family and always took time to ask how my family was doing before he
would ask about how my project was doing.
My best to Helen,
Gary & Malia Corde and the members of Krazee Aviation
Pittstown, New Jersey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "PO9HIGH" <PO9HIGH(at)macsmtpgw.spring-branch.isd.tenet.edu> |
| Subject: | Undeliverable Mail |
Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows.
Message: Re: RV-List: IFR Radio install regs
Sent: Thu, Oct 17, 1996 9:24 AM
On Server: PO9HIGH
Date: Thu, Oct 17, 1996 9:26 AM
Reason: The Network Manager returned this message before it reached its
destination. You should choose retry.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "PO9HIGH" <PO9HIGH(at)macsmtpgw.spring-branch.isd.tenet.edu> |
| Subject: | Undeliverable Mail |
Unknown Microsoft mail form. Approximate representation follows.
Message: Re: RV-List: Garage Door Installation
Sent: Thu, Oct 17, 1996 9:24 AM
On Server: PO9HIGH
Date: Thu, Oct 17, 1996 9:26 AM
Reason: The Network Manager returned this message before it reached its
destination. You should choose retry.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred New <fred(at)ics.ee> |
| Subject: | Re: Garage Door Installation |
On Thu, 17 Oct 1996, Doug Reeves wrote:
> Mike Brogley wrote:
> > I was wondering...
> > What kind of primer should I use on my Garage Door?
> >
> > Mike Brogley
> > San Jose, CA, USA / Avery backorderer
>=20
> Maybe I could heat my garage with a JATO unit...
. . . The state police reported finding what looked like a well-insulated
garage in splinters about 200 feet up the cliff. Along with the splinters
were some strangely shaped pieces of metal with a name stamped in them.=20
They were hoping that name would help them identify the deceased, but no
garages were missing for any of the Averys in the phone directory . . .=20
--
Fred New, Systems Administrator RV-6A, dreaming & planning
IC Systems | Mustam=E4e tee 12 | EE0006 Tallinn | Eston=
ia
Internet--fred(at)ics.ee voice--(372) 656-5477 fax--(372) 656-5476
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ccarpent(at)pressenter.com (Cliff Carpenter) |
| Subject: | Re: IFR Radio install regs |
Larry, I'm presently in the process of upgrading my RV-4 for IFR. The local
Fed types here in Minneapolis said I should apply for a change to my
Special Airworthiness Certificate by submitting a letter with all pertinent
equipment listed. Also have any other paperwork that is required to be
carried aboard the aircraft,like the CG figures. The new Operation
Specifications would be issued with or without a look-see at the
aircraft,depending on the inspector.
Will let you know the level of pain endured after my official request!!
Cliff Carpenter,RV-4,N141CC, ccarpent(at)pressenter.com,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
I'm seriously considering buying a preheater before winter, does anyone
have any experience with these? Any recommendations would be appreciated.
TIA :-)
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <DougR(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Angle Valve -290 on -4? |
I have an 0-290-d2 with VO-435 jugs. Tom at Van's said someone has put one
like it in an RV-4. Does any one know who? Or does any one have any
experience with same? It is a great engine and runs great, should put out
about 160-170 hp. Or does anyone have a -4 or -6 for sale? Respond to me
directly if you like to saave bandwith.
Thanks.
DougR(at)netins.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | B&C 60 Amp alternator (fwd) |
The mount type is determined by the engine you have.
All current engines should use the newer boss mount.
The case mount is only for very old style engines.
The boss mount bolts onto a flat machined area on the case
on the lower right forward side of the case. There are
two or three holes tapped into this machined area that you
bolt the bracket onto.
The older 'case' mount uses the case through bolts to attach
the alternator bracket.
Look in Van's parts catalog and you will see a picture of their
alternator kit. It is for boss mount only.
If unsure, talk to B&C.
Herman
> From owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com Wed Oct 16 21:41:50 1996
> Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 11:25:21 -0800
> Message-Id: <9610171925.AA19484(at)koala.icn.su.OZ.AU>
> X-Sender: leo(at)koala.icn.su.oz.au
> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> From: Leo Davies <icn.su.OZ.AU!leo(at)matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: B&C 60 Amp alternator
> Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Precedence: bulk
> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Dear all,
>
> I'm in the process of acquiring firewall forward equipment for my 6A. I plan
> to use B&C specialty products 60 amp alternator. This is offered by the
> company with two different mounts: "case" and "boss". Does anyone have
> experience in fitting this beast to a 6 and know which is appropriate?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Leo Davies
>
> leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: B&C 60 Amp alternator |
<< (stuff cut) Look at the bottom of the engine and if there is a machined
pad with threaded bolt holes it is a case mount. See page 186 in the
1994-1995 Aircraft Spruce catalog for a picture.
(stuff cut)
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 20480 N-157GS
Aerospace Electrical Engineer
FAA Powerplant Mechanic
EAA TEchnical Counselor >>
Hi all,
I'm a little surprised at Gary. After giving me a plug on the list, he
didn't take the opportunity to plug the person who drew the free hand
sketches of the engine cases in the AS&S catalog.
I may have mentioned Rocky in the past. I have flown 200+ hrs along side his
RV-3 (who says you have to fly alone in a single place plane). And I have
used the performance of his 1986 Oshkosh Outstanding Workmanship awarded IO
-320 160 hp RV-3 as a performance comparision for my Lyc. O-290 powered RV-3.
The bottom line. Rocky's full name is Kent Norman Rockwell.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
BTW, Rocky and I painted my RV-3, but he wouldn't let me hold the spray gun.
Does that mean I have a (k) Norman Rockwell painting? :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael A. Pilla" <pilla(at)exit109.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Steve Frey passed away |
Claudio Tonini informed me that Helen notified him that Steve's
RV project (-4, I believe) is for sale. She asked Claudio to let
the list know.
Claudio is using one of Steve's jigs for his RV-3 that he is building
to complement his flying -4, "Purple Passion".
Mike Pilla
Michael Pilla
pilla(at)exit109.com
v: (908) 566-7604
f: (908) 566-7936
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Steve Frey passed away |
aol.com!OrndorffG(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> I received a phone call this afternoon from Helen Frey (Mrs. Steven
> Frey). She let us know that Steve passed away last night. She commented on
> how much support they have received from the aviation community when the news
> of Steve's illness was known. As for Becki and I who have had the pleasure
> of knowing Steve for many years, he will be missed. Our thoughts go out to
> his family and friends. Viewing will be Thursday, October 17 and the funeral
> will be Friday, October 18.
> Helen did want everyone to know that she intends to continue producing
> high quality jigs for the homebuilder industry.
> George Orndorff
Sorry to hear the sad news. I just unpacked my jig last week, it is a
work of art
--
Don Mack
RV-6A
donmack@super-highway.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael A. Pilla" <pilla(at)exit109.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine heaters |
>I'm seriously considering buying a preheater before winter, does anyone
>have any experience with these? Any recommendations would be appreciated.
I've used a generic "Kerosene Torpedo" heater that is favored by contractors.
I build a plenum out of stock HVAC duct "stuff", added a long flexible hose
(wrapped in insulation; sucker can get hot.)
I added a "T" to the end of the hose, added two short stub hoses so that you
can get hot air fed into both inlet ducts. If you can come up from the bottom,
that is better, this does work, however.
Monitor the temperature of the fiberglass, ... I put a screweye/hook on the
"T" junction with a quick disconnect rope to hang the thing from the prop.
Watch the "angle" on the hoses into the inlets; too far up and the 'glass
gets warm. You don't want to ruin your nice paint job.
I'm sure that there are commercial units even better, but 1) I had the
torpedo heater, 2) it was cheap, and 3) I'm cheap :-)
Mike Pilla, RV-4 #2866 fitting canopy
Michael Pilla
pilla(at)exit109.com
v: (908) 566-7604
f: (908) 566-7936
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Moore <bobmoore(at)wwd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Garage Door Installation |
Fred New wrote:
> . . . The state police reported finding what looked like a well-insulated
> garage in splinters about 200 feet up the cliff. Along with the splinters
> were some strangely shaped pieces of metal with a name stamped in them.
> They were hoping that name would help them identify the deceased, but no
> garages were missing for any of the Averys in the phone directory . . .
The greatest bit of hummor yet!
BTW Fred, your name dosen't seem Estonian, are you? My roommate at GA Tech
in 1954 was Estonian. His father was the last (whatever the head of state is)
just before the Soviet's chased him into exile before WWII.
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
>I will miss Steven Frey.
>
Ditto. I must be out of the loop .....I didn't know he was ill. I was the
first guy around here to use his jig on my 4. He was great to deal with and
I thought his input was a real help on my project. My aircraft would not
have turned out as well as it did if I hadn't known Steve.......
My condolences to the family. The RV communuty has lost a friend and a
great resource.
Regards
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Increasing useful load |
You are right. I was cutting small circles of aluminium out of spars to
save half an ounce of weight, when I was 70 lbs overweight. I have my own
diet, which is about the same as the one described, very high protein, very
low fat, and you will be pleased to know that I have lost the 70 lbs., which
has increased my useful load, shortened my takeoff run, and no longer do I
skim the fence at the end of the runway.
The problen is that diets are sooo boring !
Well back to the RV6,
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: IFR Radio install regs |
> The Radio Shop that I deal with says that radio
> equipment in a experimental does not need to be TSOed.
For ANY aircraft operating under FAR part 91 in the US, experimental or
not, IFR or VFR, NONE of the radios need to be TSOd, except for the ELT,
transponder, and GPS if used for IFR. Ref. FAR parts 91.205, 91.207,
91.215.
Interestingly, since 91.205 (Instrument and equipment requirements)
specifies only "aircraft with standard category airworthiness
certificates", a case might be made that experimentals don't even have
to meet the minimum equipment requirements (ELT, transponder, etc),
athough I wouldn't want to test it.
91.217 (Data correspondence between automatically reported pressure
altitude data and the pilot's altitude reference) doesn't specifically
exclude experimentals, so it may apply to the microencoder issue.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Terminal composition (avoid dissimilar metal corrosion) (fwd) |
On Wed, 16 Oct 1996, Gil Alexander wrote:
> Tim,
> ... check in the electrical section of AC43.13-1A "Acceptable
> Methods, Techniques and Practices - Aircraft Inspection, Repair and
> Alteration". Available from the EAA and other fine aviation bookstores
> ...:^)
>
> There is a entire chart dedicated to types of materials for good,
> permanent electrical connections, detailing the washers, nuts and terminal
> materials. Note that this is the only type of location that allows
> "toothed" lock washers, since the teeth act to enchance the electrical
> connectivity.
>
> ... hope this helps ..... gil A.
>
> gil(at)rassp.hac.com
Gil,
Duh, thanks a lot. I don't know why I didn't think to look there first.
I've already found that it's the best collection of advice on wire sizing
I've seen anywhere. Anyway, the section Gil referred to is on pages
189-192. For my application (copper wire using tinned copper terminal)
the correct grounding method is shown on page 191. The AC calls for
cadmium plated steel screw/bolt, nut, and washers, except for an aluminum
washer between the terminal and the aircraft structure.
Thanks Gil, good advice.
Tim
-------------------------------
Capt Tim Lewis
Kelly AFB, TX 210-442-4237
lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil
or capntim(at)aol.com
COML ASEL IA
RV-6AQ #60023
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ACCPILOT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV6a Stab. and Wing kit FOR SALE |
Mike
would you please E-mail me. I would like to talk to more about what you have
and I dont want to clutter up the list
Thank you
Tony Cochran
ACC PLIOT @aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net> |
This is kinda unrelated to RV's but.................
I have a friend looking to buy a Starduster with an engine designated as
an Lycoming 0-435-c. All we can find out is that it is 195HP 6 cyl.
Does anyone have ant idea where this engine comes from or know anything
about it?
Thanks.
Ed Cole RV6A #24430
emcole(at)concentric.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | caummisa(at)arn.net (Richard Caummisar) |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage jig |
Does anyone know if this jig has sold? I'm interested and a little bit
closer since I live in Amarillo, TX. BTW any RV {6(A)} builders here in
Amarillo?
>>From John Lucas: You may have some luck by contacting Capt. James R.
>Armstrong (Braniff Airlines Retired and 86years old)...He just built a RV-6,
>flys everywhere and lives a lot closer to you (Grapevine, Tx.). Just north
>of DFW airport..Try 817-481-3459...I went to work for Braniff in 1969 and
>never met the man...his flying career was highlighted in the current issue
>of BISE magazine...dates back to 1927 and I will send you a copy if you
>wish...good luck...jwl...
>
>>Bob Skinner wrote:
>>>
>>> >It has been a while since I posted my progress: I
>>> >have now completed the emmpenage and the wings. I
>>> >have started to inventory the fuselage and
>>> >finishing kits. I am looking for a fuselage jig
>>> >from somebody in south texas. Still planning to
>>> >finishing this plane by end of 1998.
>>> >
>>> >Gus
>>>
>>> Gus, It's probably a little far away from you but John Stewart from
>>> Burlington, CO had his fuselage jig for sale. I believe it's made out of
>>> glued and/or screwed plywood that was laminated togehter. I saw it many
>>> months ago and it was a thing of beauty. It displays the same craftsmanship
>>> as his good looking RV-6A. His phone number is 719-346-8741.
>>>
>>> Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.comBob,
>>I spoke with John about the fuselage jig last night. It does sound very
>good, however,
>>it is just too far away from me. I t would take me about 20 hours one way
>to drive up
>>there. So, I am still going to be looking for a jig arounf SOUTH TEXAS
>closer to
>>VICTORIA.
>>
>>We did have agood conversation about his project.
>>
>>Thank you very much for the information.
>>
>>Gus
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: IFR Radio install regs |
Altho I need a transponder to fly at all here in Bay Area, a transponder isn't
made a
necessity for going IFR is it?
Hal Kempthorne
Debonair N6134V
halk(at)sybase.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg) |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron push rod |
At 9:48 AM 10/16/96, Scott Gesele wrote:
>>Hi all,
>>Just wondering if anyone/everyone has been priming the inside of the aileron
>>push rods. Thanks !
>>
>>Scott Engelhart
>>RV6-A in WI
>I primed all interior walls of my push-pull tubes. Just mix up some
>variprime, or whatever primer you use, and pour it into tubing. As it is
>running down, rotate the tube to get full coverage. The whole operation
>should take about 15 minutes.
>
>-Scott Gesele N506RV
>scottg(at)villagenet.com
Another way. Load up your sprayer, shoot it into push pull tube and a air
nozzel (the one you use to clear dust and alum. chips from the bench) both
going at the same time the air blast will carry the primer down the tube
and spread it around quit nicely.
Doug Bloomberg
Denver, CO
dougb(at)mail.diac.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au> |
Dick,
I made a small jig out of a 8" length of 4 x 2 hardwood. The top surface was
curved in my bandsaw slightly (about 0.75" lower than the centre at either
end) and sanded smooth. I used my router to cut a 5/8" slot in this curved
top surface.
I did this originally because I was worried I might score the metal as I
bent it in the vice, but when I used it to bend the longerons the slot was
tight it didn't allow the longerons to twist. All of this, of course, is in
reference to the 2nd bend.
It did twist a bit when I did the first bend, but when you see how much you
have to twist it to get it to fit the firewall when it is in the jig, you'll
wonder what you were worried about.
We bent two on the same day and both worked out the same.
Royce Craven
roycec(at)ozemail.com.au
>I am about to bend the Longerons for my 6A and am looking for any tips you
>builders might have. I understand that the angle twists as it bends, and
>would expect that doing more small bends and twist corrections would be
>better than fewer larger ones. Is this correct? Any other helpful hints?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Dick Flunker (RFLUNKER(at)AOL.com)
>RV-6A
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
>This is kinda unrelated to RV's but.................
>
>I have a friend looking to buy a Starduster with an engine designated as
>an Lycoming 0-435-c. All we can find out is that it is 195HP 6 cyl.
>Does anyone have ant idea where this engine comes from or know anything
>about it?
>Thanks.
>Ed Cole RV6A #24430
>emcole(at)concentric.net
>
>
This engine uses the same cylinders as the O-290, just two more of them.
Your friend may want to consider the rebuild costs of this engine. I had an
O-290 GPU with the idea of rebuilding it and using it on an RV-3 or maybe a
Cub clone. Then I found out the costs of rings and valves for it. The
project came to a screeching halt.
The O-290 and O-435 haven't been built for some time now. If you look in
Trade-a-Plane and check out the engine rebuild ads I think you'll find that
either the O-435 isn't mentioned or costs a whole bunch more for a rebuild.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine heaters |
>I'm seriously considering buying a preheater before winter, does anyone
>have any experience with these? Any recommendations would be appreciated.
>TIA :-)
>
>Dan Boudro
Dan,
I'm surprised. I didn't think it got cold down there:)
I put an EZ Heat on the sump of my O-320. I keep my airplane in a hanger.
In about four hours, the whole engine is toasty warm. I've got a timer that
I set that turns the heater on at the desired time. I also put a little
"ceramic" heater in the baggage compartment and it's on the timer, as well.
When I get to the airport, the engine and cockpit are nice and warm.
Heating the interior should help the battery crank better and should be good
for the panel, as well.
I like the plug in arrangement better than the kerosene or propane
heaters. I feel that you have to stand around and keep a close eye on these
and, when your teeth are chattering, you tent to rush and not get a thorough
pre-heat. I've seen several cowls with blistered paint, as well.
The other advantage to the plug-in type heat is that you can take it with
you easily. On several occasions, I've pulled the RV over to a plug at a FBO
and they haven't charged me:)
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
>You are right. I was cutting small circles of aluminium out of spars to
>save half an ounce of weight, when I was 70 lbs overweight. I have my own
>diet, which is about the same as the one described, very high protein, very
>low fat, and you will be pleased to know that I have lost the 70 lbs., which
>has increased my useful load, shortened my takeoff run, and no longer do I
>skim the fence at the end of the runway.
>The problen is that diets are sooo boring !
>Well back to the RV6,
>John
John,
I follow two diets because one doesn't give me enough to eat:) Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MiDiBu <midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Builder's Logbook? |
Hello all,
I got my RV-8 empanage kit today!
The dog (Buster) and I have just been looking at the boxes and wondering
just what we have gotten into. You know, circling, looking, sniffing,
circling...
Dian, my wife, is just looking on in amazement. Two boys in, as we say here
in the south, "Hog Heaven". Both circling, looking, sniffing...
In a way, I'm a little bit scared. I've done some pretty complex projects,
both professionally and as a hobby. Mostly computer and electronic stuff.
But this dwarfs even the best that I've done.
Airplanes have always been my first love. I soloed on my 16th birthday with
money that I earned by being a lineboy at the local airport (Tullahoma, TN).
I got my private right after my 17th birthday. I've gotten Com,CFII,MEL,
ratings since then.
But, that's not the point. I owned a Mooney for a while and learned about
flying cross country. I've given a lot of flight instruction, which I
enjoyed at the time, but no longer seems fun (especially with the liability
which it entails).
This is new learning experience for me. I am really looking forward to
opening those boxes. I've gotten the garage ready (new shelves and stuff to
organize), and I've gotten all of the catalogs that I've been able to find.
I'm going to give Avery a call this week. I'm not going to get the "RV tail
starter kit", but I will definately qualify for the "Build your own" discount.
I can't thank this group enough for the insights that you have given me to
go ahead and start this project.
Now for my first question. I've read Tony Bingelis' advise on how to keep a
logbook in "The Sportplane Builder". It says basically nothing. The last
time I helped someone build/rebuild an airplane was quite a few years back.
Back then, you would get 3 inspections. No pictures or other stuff, just an
FAA inspector from Nashville would come by, and tell you what was good! To
this day, I have never had a bad experience with anyone in the FAA. I do
follow a lot of bad press that they've gotten lately (example: FAA Joke of
the Month, which is almost always lame).
So, is there an "Official" or at least "Official Looking" way that anyone
would suggest to document this project? I'm going to take pictures of me
taking the boxes apart to start with, but there has to be some reasonable
approach to this.
PS. The Braves are going to play the Yankees. Life is good!
Mike Weller RV 80187 (under construction)
midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com (preferred) or mike.weller(at)msfc.nasa.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peggy Aguirre <aguirres(at)ICSI.Net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage jig |
Richard Caummisar wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if this jig has sold? I'm interested and a little bit
> closer since I live in Amarillo, TX. BTW any RV {6(A)} builders here
in
> Amarillo?
>
> >>From John Lucas: You may have some luck by contacting Capt. James R.
> >Armstrong (Braniff Airlines Retired and 86years old)...He just built a RV-6,
> >flys everywhere and lives a lot closer to you (Grapevine, Tx.). Just north
> >of DFW airport..Try 817-481-3459...I went to work for Braniff in 1969 and
> >never met the man...his flying career was highlighted in the current issue
> >of BISE magazine...dates back to 1927 and I will send you a copy if you
> >wish...good luck...jwl...
> >
> >>Bob Skinner wrote:
> >>>
> >>> >It has been a while since I posted my progress: I
> >>> >have now completed the emmpenage and the wings. I
> >>> >have started to inventory the fuselage and
> >>> >finishing kits. I am looking for a fuselage jig
> >>> >from somebody in south texas. Still planning to
> >>> >finishing this plane by end of 1998.
> >>> >
> >>> >Gus
> >>>
> >>> Gus, It's probably a little far away from you but John Stewart from
> >>> Burlington, CO had his fuselage jig for sale. I believe it's made out of
> >>> glued and/or screwed plywood that was laminated togehter. I saw it many
> >>> months ago and it was a thing of beauty. It displays the same craftsmanship
> >>> as his good looking RV-6A. His phone number is 719-346-8741.
> >>>
> >>> Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.comBob,
> >>I spoke with John about the fuselage jig last night. It does sound very
> >good, however,
> >>it is just too far away from me. I t would take me about 20 hours one way
> >to drive up
> >>there. So, I am still going to be looking for a jig arounf SOUTH TEXAS
> >closer to
> >>VICTORIA.
> >>
> >>We did have agood conversation about his project.
> >>
> >>Thank you very much for the information.
> >>
> >>Gus
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Richard,
Jim called me to tell me that he has sold that jig a few years back. I guess you
and I
are looking for the same jig. We are at opposite ends of the state, about 12 hours
apart. Good luck,
Gus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RFlunker(at)aol.com |
I did it! I bent the longerons tonight and I think they turned out ok.
We'll see in a couple of months when everything is put together. Thanks for
all the help. By the way, I did it just like George did in his video,
worked great.
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Electronic ignition |
Is anyone on the list using, or know of someone using, Jeff Roses
electronic ignition? Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
| Subject: | Re: Engines= Tractor parts |
>>>This is kinda unrelated to RV's but.................
>>>
>>>I have a friend looking to buy a Starduster with an engine designated =
as=20
>>>an Lycoming 0-435-c. All we can find out is that it is 195HP 6 cyl.
>>>Does anyone have ant idea where this engine comes from or know =
anything=20
>>>about it?
>>>Thanks.
>>>Ed Cole RV6A #24430
>>>emcole(at)concentric.net
>>>
>>>
>>This engine uses the same cylinders as the O-290, just two more of =
them.
>>Your friend may want to consider the rebuild costs of this engine. I =
had an
>>O-290 GPU with the idea of rebuilding it and using it on an RV-3 or =
maybe a
>>Cub clone. Then I found out the costs of rings and valves for it. The
>>project came to a screeching halt.
>>
>>The O-290 and O-435 haven't been built for some time now. If you look =
in
>>Trade-a-Plane and check out the engine rebuild ads I think you'll find =
that
>>either the O-435 isn't mentioned or costs a whole bunch more for a =
rebuild.
>>
>>John Ammeter
>>ammeterj(at)seanet.com
>>3233 NE 95th St
>>Seattle WA, 98115 USA
>>RV-6 N16JA
>>First flight August 1990
>>
>>
Hey, what about tractor parts? They are cheap and equal to lycomings
overpriced crap.
AIRCRAFT REMANUFACTURING=20
VISTA, CA. 92084 (619) 749 0239 FAX: 749 6384
Sales Directory: Infobot(at)pdsig.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: O-320H2AD engine mount mod |
James & Mary Mc Phee wrote:
> recently changed mounts to a new mount and gear legs due to a heavy
> landing(s) and sabotage on a strip. My original engine mount was the
> standard one in 1991 and Ken Scott took the photographs back to Van's in
> 1993 of the mod and they copied it exactly, so don't worry about it. It
> fits straight on.
>
What exactly was your original mod?
Frank Smidler
smidler(at)dcwi.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314(at)azstarnet.com (Tom Sargent) |
| Subject: | Re: Engines & Props-chatter |
>>Mark
>>mlfred(at)aol.com you write...
>
>>....Remember, a c/s prop is like a transmission in a car- it can sort of shift
>>gears. A fixed pitch can't, but it can "slip" at lower airspeeds/high power
>>settings, allowing you extra RPM at lower (takeoff & climb) speeds.
>
>
>Right you are Mark. That fixed pitch, "slipping" prop is "cavitating" and
>will allow higher RPM and therefore more horsepower. Unfortunately, You
I've been wondering about using an Ivo Prop on an RV. I can't
recall ever seeing one. They're cheaper than a traditional cs prop. Any
one have any experience with Ivos?
---
Tom Sargent, Tucson, AZ, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Doyal <jerrydd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | rv6a fuselage jig |
I live in Shreveport La. and would like to purchase
a fuselage jig. I would also like to know if there
are any builders in my area, north La. or east Texas.
jerrydd(at)earthlink.com >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net> |
Hi guys!
First let me say thanks to Matt Dralle for the hard work. This list is
really a great thing. I'm also saving my pennies for a Matronics fuel
management unit -looks like a great instrument and a great deal next to
the competition.
Okay, on the subject of fuel...
It would be nice to have a little more fuel capacity in my -4. My flying
is primarily X/C, and being single, I figured I'd like to stick an aux
tank in the back seat (a la Jon Johansen -except with a little less
capacity!) so I could sit at altitude a little longer, and watch more of
planet earth go by. So just about the time I was beginning to think
seriously about ordering some 5052H32 sheet and firing up the TIG, a
friend gives me the latest copy of Summit Racing's catalog (an
automotive racing/performance supplier)to poke through. Lo and behold,
there on page 82 were 'Fuel Cells' -used by drag racing types, etc.
Available in sizes from 4 to 22 gallons (and some with convenient
dimensions) these things were polyethylene plastic tanks already set up
with AN (yes, really!) outlet and vent fittings and an aircraft-style
flush cap. Some of them also contained foam for fuel slosh and mist
suppression. The one that particularly caught my eye was a 12 gal model,
foam filled, with dimensions 17"x17"x11", a 2" sump area and molded
recesses for (metal) straps. $95.95 -about the same price I had budgeted
to construct my own and obviously much quicker and easier. Absolutely
great, except that I have become conditioned to be wary of non-metallic
fuel vessels. There have been many documented instances of fires caused
by static discharge while people FUELED FROM plastic cans/tanks. I also
own a Cessna 140 with autogas STC and have been flying it for years
fueled almost exclusively from plastic 5 gal cans. I've not had a
problem yet, but I can confirm that static charges do indeed build up on
these containers (as evidenced by dust, etc. clinging to the outsides)
and I am very wary and eventually intend to make them groundable (stick
some stainless mesh inside 'em with an outside terminal and cable or
something). So where am I headed with this? Well, I'd like to buy this
thing but I want to hear what you techno-weenies think. Fueling an
airplane while standing on the ground is one thing -if a fire starts I
can take off running (in search of a fire extinguisher, hopefully). A
fire going behind me in my airplane with a lot of air under me and my
life flashing before me is quite another. I really don't think there
should be any problem as the tank and aircraft will be in constant
contact and therefore (hopefully) at the same potential -a little
different than during fueling. Another thing about plastic is that is
burns/melts at low temp. But I figure that if a fire starts (elsewhere)
and spreads to the tank in the back seat I'm already toast anyway. The
other thing is this foam used inside the tank (which is very common in
auto racing) and whether or not it will stand up to avgas. But here
again I figure that if there's one group anywhere that uses exotic fuels
of all sorts it's the auto race crowd. So tell me what you think.
Also checked the archives - nothing similar there
Scott Spencer - I use my father's email
N4ZW
Rebuilding damaged RV-4 (I didn't do it!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Builder's Logbook? |
>Hello all,
>
>I got my RV-8 empanage kit today!
>This is new learning experience for me. I am really looking forward to
>opening those boxes. I've gotten the garage ready (new shelves and stuff to
>organize), and I've gotten all of the catalogs that I've been able to find.
>I'm going to give Avery a call this week. I'm not going to get the "RV tail
>starter kit", but I will definately qualify for the "Build your own" discount.
>
>
>Now for my first question. I've read Tony Bingelis' advise on how to keep a
>logbook in "The Sportplane Builder". It says basically nothing. The last
>time I helped someone build/rebuild an airplane was quite a few years back.
>Back then, you would get 3 inspections. No pictures or other stuff, just an
>FAA inspector from Nashville would come by, and tell you what was good! To
>this day, I have never had a bad experience with anyone in the FAA. I do
>follow a lot of bad press that they've gotten lately (example: FAA Joke of
>the Month, which is almost always lame).
>
>So, is there an "Official" or at least "Official Looking" way that anyone
>would suggest to document this project? I'm going to take pictures of me
>taking the boxes apart to start with, but there has to be some reasonable
>approach to this.
>
>PS. The Braves are going to play the Yankees. Life is good!
>
>
>
>
>
>Mike Weller RV 80187 (under construction)
>midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com (preferred) or mike.weller(at)msfc.nasa.gov
>
>
>
Actually, pictures are great for documenting that _you_ built that beautiful
RV-8 with the great paint job. My pictures show me working in a bare
workshop in my shorts and T-shirt with no shelves, working in a shop with
winter clothes and shelves and a dirty work bench. They definately document
that _I_ built the aircraft over a period of time. The FAA guy also looked
for coffee stains and blood stains (we ARE building aluminum aircraft,
aren't we??) on the plans.
The FAA guys are just concerned that we actually built the plane and didn't
hire someone else or buy it already completed. Any kind of record that
documents who built the aircraft will make them go away happy, having signed
off your pride and joy.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Davis" <jdavis1(at)ford.com> |
There was a GO-435 that was used on the Aero Commander 520. I believe the
complete designation was GO-435-C2B. This engine was rate at 260hp for 5 min,
and a normal rated power of 240hp. The G is for geared (or gobs of money to
maintain) The engine turned about 3000rpm at rated power and the prop turned
1925rpm. This engine was replaced by the more common GO-480. The TBO on the
engine is about 1400hrs. The GO-435 was also used on the Widgeon. There was
also a later version designated C2B2. This model had the later style mags
(some people say a must have).
--- Forwarded mail from rv-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 14:57:45 -0700
From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net>
Subject: RV-List: Engines
This is kinda unrelated to RV's but.................
I have a friend looking to buy a Starduster with an engine designated as
an Lycoming 0-435-c. All we can find out is that it is 195HP 6 cyl.
Does anyone have ant idea where this engine comes from or know anything
about it?
Thanks.
Ed Cole RV6A #24430
emcole(at)concentric.net
---End of forwarded mail from rv-list(at)matronics.com
--
Jeffrey S. Davis
Senior Research Engineer
Ford Motor Company
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Builder's Logbook? |
Mike ,
The best log of your building are pictures. Takes lots and the FAA will be
satfied, more important take the pictures for yourself so you and show them
to friend and share all the fun you are going to have with them. Good luck
,build safe and have fun.........George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com |
Hello Scott Spencer.
I have been giving some thought to extra fuel capacity for the 4 I'm
building also. I would not under any circumstances put fuel in the fuselage.
This is just one of my personal phobias.
There are a couple of other options. One is the Farn Reed extender tanks
which go on the end of the wing. Essentially, he extends each wing about
8" and creates a fuel bay from leading to trailing edge. The wing tips
just attach to the extension. Van also suggested ( in an RVator article )
that you might just want to make the wingtip into a fuel bay. You could
probably add about 4-5gals/side and that should be plenty. I think this
is the route I will take as it allows me to build an essentially stock
wing. I have enough work without adding any more!! I may plumb for a\
tip tank and add it later if I REALLY feel it's necessary.
BTW, I think the Farn Reed tank adds 8 gals/side, but don't quote me.
Good luck
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood Props on 180 HP Lycoming |
Scott;
I am running a 180 h.p. RV6 with a Prince-P-Tip 69X75, and have about 410 hrs
on the installation. I recently borrowed a Landol harmonic dampener and am
trying it out. I am very pleased with the combination. I am located in
Connecticut.
Give me a call if you like @ 860-354-6933 Bill Mahoney RV-6 N747W.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: (Chat) Diets |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
The best diet I ever had was a "Sea Food Diet".. If I saw food, I ate it
!
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>>You are right. I was cutting small circles of aluminium out of spars
to
>>save half an ounce of weight, when I was 70 lbs overweight. I have my
own
>>diet, which is about the same as the one described, very high protein,
very
>>low fat, and you will be pleased to know that I have lost the 70 lbs.,
which
>>has increased my useful load, shortened my takeoff run, and no longer
do I
>>skim the fence at the end of the runway.
>>The problen is that diets are sooo boring !
>>Well back to the RV6,
>>John
>
>John,
> I follow two diets because one doesn't give me enough to eat:) Bob
>Skinner
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electronic ignition |
> Is anyone on the list using, or know of someone using, Jeff Roses
>electronic ignition? Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
>
>
Bob:
The fellas who bought my -4 put one on, and rave about the smooth operation
ans easy installation. Another fella has one, and he brags about low fuel
consumption. I'm waitnig for his 6-cyl version.
Evidently, his units use a sensor on the plate used to cover the mag hole,
making installation much easier.
Check six!
Mark
mlfred(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Terminal composition (avoid dissimilar metal corrosion) |
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: INTERNET:rv-list(at)matronics.com, INTERNET:rv-list(at)matronics.com
DATE: 10/17/96 1:46 AM
RE: Re: RV-List: Terminal composition (avoid dissimilar metal corrosion)
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Re: RV-List: Terminal composition (avoid dissimilar metal corrosion)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 18:56:29 -0500 (CDT)
>> I need to attach the ground wire for my pitot tube heater (and
>> position/strobe lights) to the aircraft structure. I'm wondering what
>> kind of ring terminals to buy. I believe the terminals mentioned in the
>> Aero Electric Connection (available from DigiKey) are copper core, tin
>> covered. Won't that lead to dissimilar metal corrosion, (with copper wire
>> crimped in a tin/copper terminal, which connects to an aluminum
>> airframe rib using a steel screw)?
>You're supposed to prime at least one of the surfaces when two dissimilar
>metals will contact. Try that and you shouldn't have any corrosion
>problems.
No primer or anything else on surfaces intended to carry current.
Bright, clean metal under well-torqued fastners. THEN you can
prime or paint to help keep moisture out . . .
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
*********************************
* Go ahead, make my day . . . *
* Show me where I'm wrong. *
*********************************
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | New DC Bus Center |
Any experience or comments regarding the ExpBUS DC Load Center product
from Control Vision Corporation that was featured in the October issue of
SPORT AVIATION?
For those who missed it, it's an aircraft electrical system mounted on a
PC board that incorporates a master switch, avionics master switch, main
bus, and switched outputs for alternator field, beacons/strobes, nav
lights, aux fuel pump, and 2 landing lights. It employs "solid state
protection devices" in lieu of circuit breakers. Price = $249. Lots more
detail on their web site at http://www.controlvision.com.
I called them and requested a brochure to learn more about it. Any of the
electrical engineering experts out there with an opinion on solid state
overload protection vice fuses or circuit breakers?
I'll probably still build my own electrical system for self-education and
understanding of my own airplane, but it seems this would eliminate quite
a bit of work in exchange for maybe just a few more $$.
Mike Kukulski
kukulski(at)highfiber.com
RV-4 N96MK
=========================================================================
Here's a copy of an earlier piece I did on the topic . . . .
>ARE YOU WIRING UP A HOMEBUILT AIRCRAFT?
>
>if so, then you should investigate our new product, the EXP-BUS. This
>product can save a lot of time and money wiring up a project. . . .
Compared to what? You still have to cut holes for a PREDETERMINED
number of switches arranged in PREDERTERMINED order. Little chance
for customization. The assembly suggested DOES eliminate the need
for fabricating a breaker panel. So that time and space is saved.
However, fuseblocks and toggle/rocker switches can be used to
fabricate an easily customized power distribution and control
system for about $10 per switched circuit (landing lights,
nav lights, etc) and $0.50 per unswitched circuit (turn coordinator,
nav/com, etc.).
>HOW DO "SOLID STATE FUSES" WORK?
>The purpose of the limiter is identical to that of the breaker, to shut
>off whenever too much current is being drawn from a particular circuit.
>Technically, the devices used are very non-linear thermistors with a
>positive temperature coefficient (PTC). When excess current is drawn, the
>PTC device heats up and becomes a poor conductor of electricity. This
>shuts down the offending circuit. These components are UL recognized, and
>manufactured by a major US component manufacturer.
>
Generally true . . .
>AN EXAMPLE
>Suppose that a wire leading to a nav light is chafing against a grounded
>metal part in a wing, such as a rib. If the light is on, and the
>insulation abrades away, the wire will intermittently or permanently short
>to ground. With a fuse, the overcurrent will blow the element in the
>fuse, before the wire can get hot and start a fire (although the spark
>could ignite fuel vapors before the fuse blows).
True of any form of circuit protection whether fuse, breaker OR
PTC resistor.
>With a breaker, the
>bimetallic element in the breaker heats up (more slowly than the fuse) and
>trips the breaker. With the solid state device, the PTC device gets hot,
>increasing it's resistance, and shutting down current flow to the nav
>lights. Actually, about 1/30th of an amp continues to flow, which is not
>enough current to heat up any wiring. The voltage drop across the PTC
>device keeps the device hot (about 100 degrees C), and the device stays
>"tripped". The load presented to the circuit by the nav lights will keep
>the device tripped even if the short is intermittant.
>
There are some operational considerations with self-reseting devices.
An intermittant fault gets you a popped breaker or fuse; an
immediate indication of system difficulties.
>The devices used are made to perform this function, and can do this over
>and over, thousands of times without damage. To reset the device, power
>is removed from the circuit for about 10 seconds (by switching off the nav
>light) , the device cools and switches back on, and the circuit is
>restored. If the short still exists, the device will immediatly trip
>again.
An important issue here is, "how often does a breaker or fuse
get cycled in an airplane?" The answer is, "almost never." This
being the case, automatic resetability is a non-convenience.
>
>We demonstrated this scenario literally hundreds of times at Oshkosh this
>year. These devices are used in automibiles and also in military
>electronics manufactured by Control Vision. No smoke and no mirrors used
>here. Using these devices, we have produced a PC board with switches
>mounted on it that replaces up to 16 fuses and circuit breakers in a small
>aircraft. Because these devices are quite inexpensive, we are able to
>offer the entire assembly for $249,. slightly less than the cost of the
>individual circuit breakers it replaces.
>
There are breakers and then there are breakers. You can buy
thermal breakers for $3 to $30 apiece depending on size
and relative "quality." $3 breakers will protect 16 circuit
for about $50. Of the 16 circuits, perhaps 5 will have switches
for another $35 bringing the total hardware costs to $85.
Switch panels have to be fabricated no matter what. Breaker
panels can be replaced with fuseblocks which pushes the labor
close to zero. If one assumes that $20 Klixon breakers are
the standard of comparison, then yes $249 IS less than $320.
>This is not a scam, we are offering this product with a 90 day money back
>guarantee, and a 1 year warranty. A builder can save time,
A little . . .
> money,
Depends . . .
>panel space,
Compared with clasic breaker panel/
switch panel installations, yes. . . .
>troubleshooting,
Vague . . . what troubles? Popped breakers and fuses on a
finished airplane are extremely rare and to my way of thinking,
the positive indication afforded by these devices is preferable
to the intermittant condition which is masked by the self
re-setting current limiters. . . .
>and weight.
Again, compared to what? Fuse blocks and switches are the lightest,
lowest cost, and fastest installation you're going to find. Further,
it's easiest to maintain in terms of individual switch replacment
and if necessary one can replace the entire bus bar and protection
system in 10 minutes with a screwdriver and needle nose pliers.
Try that on your panel mounted breaker patch!
There are several products of this genre on the market. They
all feature higher cost, longer installation times, greater
weight and higher parts counts than the fuseblock and switch
configuration of power distribution and control. Both types I
saw at OSH were not well thought out with respect to vibration
resistance. Both dropped wire segments directly into soldered
pads of etched circuit boards with no mechanical support. Parts
counts on both products was very high. One version soldered
one edge of an etched circuit board to a row of toggle switch
connections . . . a real nightmare for replacement of a single
switch . . . With all due respect to these folk and their
entrepreneurship, I cannot recommend these products as cost
or performance effective in amateur-built airplanes.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
*********************************
* Go ahead, make my day . . . *
* Show me where I'm wrong. *
*********************************
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clark, James" <jclark(at)mmsmtp2.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> |
Richard Chandler
| Subject: | Increasing useful load |
Interestingly enough, a friend nd I are each building an RV in the same
hangar and have had some dialogue along similar lines.
He is meticulously watching excess weight being added to his plane as he
builds it (doing excellent work) and I take the approach that if I lost
20 pounds (which I NEED to do) it gives me a lot of lattitude for "toys"
in the panel.
Of course he is in better shape and it would be hard for him to lose 20
while I should be able to lose more than 20 ;-)
Now the semi-serious question. Has anyone out there actually successfully
taken the "this is a good reason to lose extra pounds", lost the weight,
and transferred it to their RV under construction. *OR* has the tendency
been the other way (gain weight during building) and thereby the need to
be even more careful if you are watching the "useful load beyond the
pilot"?
James E. Clark
RV6AQ ... getting started
----------
From: Richard Chandler[SMTP:Claris.COM!mauser(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 1996 1:34 PM
Subject: RV-List: Increasing useful load
> If I can lose 30 lbs. on the Nordic Track this winter, I might be
> flexible enough:)
You know, it's not QUITE on topic, but I thought I ought to mention this.
I've heard a lot of pilots joke about being able to increase the amount
their
plane can haul by decreasing the weight of the pilot.
A co-worker turned me on to this book called "Enter the Zone" by Dr.
Barry
Sears. What was really interesting was that he studied the hormonal
effects
of food, and his results were astonishing. Carbohydrates, for example,
are
turned into sugars by the body, which then causes a surge in insulin
which
takes all that sugar out of your bloodstream and tucks it away in your
fat
tissues. Get enough insulin in your bloodstream, and your brain gets
deprived
of glucose and you get this incredible urge to take a nap. Protein does
the
opposite, sort of, with a hormone called Gulcagon. The trick was to
balance
the two, which means for every 4 grams of carbs you eat 3 grams of
protein.
The amounts aren't as critical as that ratio.
It was really interesting, especially where he points out how bad all of
the
"Healthy" diets that are going around are, like one high in pasta diet
that
has the same carb/protein ratio as a Snickers bar. Fat, it turns out, is
not
what makes you fat, although the high caloric quality of fat will make it
harder to burn off all those sugars. You get fat cows by feeding them
grain.
Of course, the most dramatic proof was my co-worker, Bruce, who has lost
a
significant amount of weight, and the fact that I was able to take 15 lbs
off
myself in about two months (in time to fit my old suit for my little
sister's
wedding). At the wedding, I found that my mom has dropped 40 lbs on a
diet
that happens to fit the same principles. (You can really force the
process
by
going really high on protein and trying to eliminate carbs, but it's not
very
good for you to do for long periods).
So why worry about a few pounds of extra primer, when you can slim down
enough
to carry a few extra gallons of fuel? :-)
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
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M1$0'="30_PB`!O$JLB"B0)$>$2_`5.&_=Y'Y,!P1JY#F<(&!3(W!MP^7| Date: | Oct 18, 1996 |
| From: | Barry WARD <ward(at)axime.com> |
>Hello Scott Spencer.
>
>I have been giving some thought to extra fuel capacity for the 4 I'm
>building also. I would not under any circumstances put fuel in the fuselage.
>This is just one of my personal phobias.
>
>There are a couple of other options. One is the Farn Reed extender tanks
>which go on the end of the wing. Essentially, he extends each wing about
>John
>
>
I also am thinking about increasing the fuel capacity of my RV6 and think I
will try and build tanks into the wing tip. I would like to have comments
from anyone who has experience with this problem. The Farn Reed wing
extension adds about 8 gals per side and the cost of both the tanks is about
2k$.
I am thinking of building the tanks and plumbing both the fuel outlet and
vent lines into those at the wing root. Also I will put an on/off tap in the
the fuel lines so that I can operate without the extra tanks and no fuel
feeding back into the wing tanks. Would it be possible instead of using a
tap to use a device which enables fuel to flow one way only? They seem to
have a device that does this in the Aircraft Spruce Catalog. Also another
question is whether or not to fit water drain points on each tip tank. The
Farn Reed system does not seem to have this option as far as I can see from
their doc.
Barry Ward ward(at)axime.com building right wing RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clark, James" <jclark(at)mmsmtp2.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> |
| Subject: | Another "QuickBuilder" gets started ... |
Well, after lurking around here for months, seeing the Quickbuild at
Sun-N-Fun and then at OSH, I decided to bite the bullet and do it.
Another RV6AQ project is underway.
[Go a lot of help/encouragement along the way from the Averys, Orndorffs
and Bill B @ Vans ... not to mention Ken who is letting me work alongside
him in his hangar as he builds his RV "the more traditional way".]
>From time to time I hope to drop a few notes here on the QB from the
perspective of a neophyte, in hopes that someone following can gain value
as I do now.
So here's a take at James' first tips for QB'ers (some may have passed
and were missed by me)
1. You need more space that you probably think. The kit comes in 3 large
crates and the the driver in my case did NOT have any tools to facilitate
or intentions assist too much in the unloading. Curious friends are very
handy at this point.
2. The two outboard ribs that support the seat bottom are probably
1/8"-1/4" short. I discovered this as I was rethinking for the 30th time
the drilling of those first holes. Called Van's. They said don't sweat
it. (Those with experience must keep in mind that a neophyte who has just
plunked down many $$$ can only imagine ruining it all at this stage.... I
understand this is normal and I will get over it ;-} )
I know this info is relevant to a much smaller RV audience (if relevant
at all) but hopefully it will let some "newbie" out there know that they
are not alone ;-)
James E. Clark
RV6AQ .... getting started.
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end
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electronic ignition |
>
>> Is anyone on the list using, or know of someone using, Jeff Roses
>>electronic ignition? Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
>>
>>
>
>Bob:
>
>The fellas who bought my -4 put one on, and rave about the smooth operation
>ans easy installation. Another fella has one, and he brags about low fuel
>consumption. I'm waitnig for his 6-cyl version.
>Evidently, his units use a sensor on the plate used to cover the mag hole,
>making installation much easier.
>
>Check six!
>Mark
>mlfred(at)aol.com
Mark, The flyer that Jeff sent shows a sixty tooth timing wheel that
attaches to the crank. A bracket bolts to the front case and has a magnetic
pick up attached to this. A module with "twin tower coils" mounts to the
firewall. He also has a housing for the mag hole to which for mounting but
there was no literature covering this or prices. The latter installation is
what I saw on John Stewart's RV-6A at the Burlington fly-in and it looked
like a really neat & simple installation. As I already have a pick-up
mounted up front for my Braal digital tach, I'd prefer to mount my unit in
the right mag hole. That way, you can save or sell the right mag. No sense
in having it spin in place doing nothing but wearing out.
Larry Vetterman has one on his RV-4. I'm not sure which installation he
is using. I'll visit with him and report back to the list.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engines & Props-chatter |
Tom Sargent wrote:
>
> >>Mark
> >>mlfred(at)aol.com you write...
> >
> >>....Remember, a c/s prop is like a transmission in a car- it can sort of shift
> >>gears. A fixed pitch can't, but it can "slip" at lower airspeeds/high power
> >>settings, allowing you extra RPM at lower (takeoff & climb) speeds.
> >
> >
> >Right you are Mark. That fixed pitch, "slipping" prop is "cavitating" and
> >will allow higher RPM and therefore more horsepower. Unfortunately, You
>
> I've been wondering about using an Ivo Prop on an RV. I can't
> recall ever seeing one. They're cheaper than a traditional cs prop. Any
> one have any experience with Ivos?
>
> ---
> Tom Sargent, Tucson, AZ, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
I seem to remember reading somewhere that there were some serious
problems with ivoprops used on larger (than say 100 hp) engines. Blades
ready to separate from hubs, etc. It seemed that Ivo needed to do some
further development work. I cannot remember the details, but I once had
the same idea and dismissed it after coming across this info. Could be
that they have solved the problems by now. I'd be careful.
Scott Spencer
N4ZW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: IFR Radio install regs |
> Altho I need a transponder to fly at all here in Bay Area, a transponder isn't
made a
> necessity for going IFR is it?
No I don't believe it is. But per 91.215 (a), if you do have a
transponder, it needs to meet the TSO. 91.215 applies to
"U.S.-registered civil aircraft". I don't know of any exemption from
this reqiuirement for experimentals.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aux Fuel Tanks |
cpeedy.ENET.dec.com!walsh(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Hello Scott Spencer.
>
> I have been giving some thought to extra fuel capacity for the 4 I'm
> building also. I would not under any circumstances put fuel in the fuselage.
> This is just one of my personal phobias.
>
> There are a couple of other options. One is the Farn Reed extender tanks
> which go on the end of the wing. Essentially, he extends each wing about
> 8" and creates a fuel bay from leading to trailing edge. The wing tips
> just attach to the extension. Van also suggested ( in an RVator article )
> that you might just want to make the wingtip into a fuel bay. You could
> probably add about 4-5gals/side and that should be plenty. I think this
> is the route I will take as it allows me to build an essentially stock
> wing. I have enough work without adding any more!! I may plumb for a\
> tip tank and add it later if I REALLY feel it's necessary.
>
> BTW, I think the Farn Reed tank adds 8 gals/side, but don't quote me.
>
> Good luck
>
> John
Thanks for your response. I've had the same feeling about fuel in the
fuselage. As far as making the f'glass tips into tanks... well I've seen
people have problems with glass tanks dissolving in the presence of
alcohol/autogas, and running on autogas has been one of my personal
success stories (hundreds of hours in my Cessna including one top
overhaul with no ill effects found). I plan on running the -4 on an
avgas/autogas mix. Also adding weight to the tips holds more potential
to change the handling characteristics as well as add to rotational
inertia in a spin -not that I plan on spinning with full aux tanks, but
things happen. But if it was Van's suggestion, I'm sure he's thoght it
through.
The thing I like most about these 'fuel cells' is that installation
would very easy.
Scott
N4ZW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
| Subject: | Re: Engines & Props-chatter |
I have no personal experience but... A local RV-4 owner installed an Ivo
ground adjustable prop on his 150hp O-320 on two seperate occasions. He is
once again back to using his original wood prop. He had problems with the
blades shifting in their mounts and with the blades maintaining track. This
was written up in the Rv-ator a while back so I dont think his experience
was a unique one. He has since given up on the Ivo (he has a second RV-4
nearly complete w/ a cs prop this time).
The theory that I have heard is that the method used to secure the blades
to the hub is just not sufficient to deal with the large power pulses of the
4-cyl Lycomings. I have spoken to some people using it on auto engines via
reduction drives and they report it works great.
This is all second hand so take it for what its worth.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
> I've been wondering about using an Ivo Prop on an RV. I can't
>recall ever seeing one. They're cheaper than a traditional cs prop. Any
>one have any experience with Ivos?
>
>
>---
>Tom Sargent, Tucson, AZ, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Builder's Logbook? |
>The best log of your building are pictures. Takes lots and the FAA will be
>satisfied, more important take the pictures for yourself so you and show them
>to friend and share all the fun you are going to have with them. Good luck
>,build safe and have fun.........George Orndorff
Hey George - do they accept video?? :)
Regards,
Rob Lee
av8r(at)hic.net
RV6A N517RL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MiDiBu <midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Builder's Logbook? |
>The FAA guys are just concerned that we actually built the plane and didn't
>hire someone else or buy it already completed. Any kind of record that
>documents who built the aircraft will make them go away happy, having signed
>off your pride and joy.
>
>John Ammeter
Thanks John,
>From other advice that I've gotten, my purchase today will be cheap Polariod
camera and a hardbound notebook. I'm going to use the Polaroid exclusively
for the project. Just leave it on the workbench and use it when I fill out
the log. I'll stick the pictures next to the log entries as I do it.
>From what I've seen so far, I should easily be able to prove that I did 51%
of the work on my airplane.
At the rate that I am going right now, I'll show the plane at Oshkosh in the
year 2001!
Wow, but I can still remember when the catch phrase was "Don't trust anyone
over 30!"
Doing the inventory,
Mike Weller RV 80187 (under construction)
midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com (preferred) or mike.weller(at)msfc.nasa.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Builder's Logbook? |
Rob, you bet if the FAA would have questioned any thing I was going to bring
in 25 HR's of video for them to watch ....keep in touch George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WstcttPrss(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | HS Skeleton and Predrilled Skins |
Friends-
Ok, I've beat my head against the wall long enough (and really can't stand
the sight of my own blood) and have to pose this question:
On the empennage, why does Vans want me to attach the 608 rib to the 602
front spar of the horizontal stabilizer before going onto the jig?
I've got the sense that the instructions are running a little behind the
kits. If the rear spar is pre-drilled by the factory where it mates with the
skin (assume it's drilled correctly), and the skin is completely pre-drilled,
does that not guarantee that the HS will be straight?
How does the following sequence sound for completing the HS skeleton and
drilling it to the skin? Remember, all holes in the skin are predrilled by
the factory now. So are all the holes in the rear spar, 609pp bars and the
elevator hinge brackets. Per the instructions, the ribs have already been
attached to the rear spar.
cleco the skin to the rear spar
center up the ribs in the pre-drilled holes on the skins
drill and cleco the ribs to the skins
cap the ribs with the forward spar assembly
plumb it center over the rear spar
center the forward spar on the holes in the skin
drill and cleco the forward spar to the skin
drill and cleco the forward spar to the ribs
shim or shorten the flange of the forward spar as necessary and attach it to
the tip rib.
Any thoughts would be appreciated. My mind is now a blur.
Jeff Carpenter
Altadena California
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DPfister(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV6a Stab. and Wing kit FOR SALE |
Mike,
I was unable to contact you at your e-mail address. I am interested in your
wing
kit. Please contact me by phone or e-mail.
Thanks,
David Pfister
(402)597-0138
dpfister(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRoss10612(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | HS Skeleton and Predrilled Skins |
Jeff,
Remember that the instructions were written before we had pre-punched skins.
Still, the intent was to get the skeleton straight and riveted together prior
to attaching the skins. Do not drill the skins to the ribs out of the jig.
The curve in the final shape of the airfoil will not be there and this will
cause errors. It is easy to check the alignment with the skin as a template
on one side. You will need the jig to get the front spar centerline directly
over the rear spar centerline, and this affects how the holes in the skin
line up elsewhere, especially the forward spar. The holes in the skin are
drilled very accurately. Put the skeleton in the jig, align it carefully and
use clamps to hold the skeleton together at the front spar. Use a plumb bob
Cleco the skin to the rear spar and check rib centerlines foe alignment in
the skin holes. You need to think about which way the shop heads on rivets
will be oriented, and whether you are going to squeeze or drive the rivets.
Will the jig be in the way? Make sure you have a center brace in the jig at
this point. Clamp the forward spar to the center brace. You may use a square
on the center ribs to check for alignment of the forward center ribs
(HS-607s). Just put clecoes in the rear spar and set the square on top of
them, lining up the vertical edge with the rivet line that runs though the
center rib. It will be much easier to attach the forward rib. Walk around and
think about things. If you are tired, stop today and begin fresh tomorrow.
When satisfied that all is straight and plumb, remove the skin and rivet the
front spar to the ribs.
I used a clamp made out of aluminum angle to hold the skins tight during
checking / drilling. Remember that the skins come pre-set as far as distance
goes with respect to the rear spar. The clamp I made was out of 1" X 1"
aluminum angle. It was attached horizontally by using threaded rod through
holes drilled in the angle, with a slot in one piece of the angle for easy
removal. Wing nuts are used instead of bolts, and the clamp can be attached
horizontally approximately parallel to the forward spar. Cleco the skin to
the rear spar on both sides of the stab. (I mean top & bottom) Tighten the
aluminum angle clamp to snug, and use cleco side grips on the root and tip
ribs. Mark a dot in each skin hole and remove the skin to check your
alignment. One cannot over emphasize the importance of skeletal alignment
when using the pre-punched skins. Do a final alignment check with the
plastic removed from the inside of the skins before drilling.
Do not rivet the HS-404s in place to the forward spar if you plan to buck
the rivets in the forward center rib. The root rib can be attached with the
two rivets that go through HS-610 & HS-614. The flange on the root rib that
attaches to the forward spar is of concern when riveting through the spar &
HS-610, the edge distance will be very close.
Make haste slowly
Hope this helps.
Jon Ross RV 80094
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: 1 Pc. Wing Skins |
>I read somewhere that Van was offering 1 pc. wing skins, but they were
>not advertised. Does anyone know:
Van will grudgingly sell you one-piece wing skins. He will not ship them,
so unless you are in the portland area, forget it. They are NOT
pre-punched.
If you REALLY want a single-piece top wingskin, you must order the sheets
of .032 2024T3 yourself from an aluminum supplier.
I seriously contemplated going this route, but I decided against it due to
cost. When I started riveting the top skins down, I was glad I did not.
It was a lot easier to rivet the two skins than one big one.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
Fitting the sliding canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New DC Bus Center |
| From: | Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)kewlaid.highfiber.com> |
I wrote:
>Any experience or comments regarding the ExpBUS DC Load Center product
>from Control Vision Corporation that was featured in the October issue of
>SPORT AVIATION?
Bob Nuckolls replied:
>Here's a copy of an earlier piece I did on the topic . . . .
>. . . With all due respect to these folk and their
> entrepreneurship, I cannot recommend these products as cost
> or performance effective in amateur-built airplanes.
I recognized this message from Bob from his earlier posting, although I
did not realize when I saw the SPORT AVIATION item that it was the
same/similar product. While I am not qualified to debate the technical
operating characteristics of the system, I believe its greatest
shortcoming is its lack of easy repair. If it went on the blink, I
couldn't begin to diagnose the faulty component; on the other hand, no
matter what kind of electrical system I fabricate myself, I will be
intimately familiar with its components and design approach, and will
thus be able to isolate problems and repair them myself.
I would speculate that a more owner/builder-maintenance-oriented
evolution of this self-contained, prepackaged electrical system concept
would be a welcomed product in the homebuilt comminuity.
Until then, anybody have a good source/phone number for Microswitch
products?
Mike Kukulski
kukulski(at)highfiber.com
RV-4 N96MK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)Op.Net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aux Fuel Tanks |
>Hi guys!
>..
>
>It would be nice to have a little more fuel capacity in my -4. My flying
>is primarily X/C, and being single, I figured I'd like to stick an aux
>tank in the back seat (a la Jon Johansen -except with a little less
Dean, I'm not sure I agree with the S.S. steel mesh on the inside. The poly-E
fuel tank could probably be treated (coated or painted) to eliminate the
static build-up. If not, you will need to ground out the charges as they
develop without allowing a spark to jump from the interior of the tank to a
ground path. I don't know where the charge resides on a non-conductor such
as poly-E. I'm sure another lister has experience with non-metalic
materials and could suggest a safe installation. This tank sounds like a
great alternative to a do-it-yourself project. Good luck.
Lou Willig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV6a Stab. and Wing kit FOR SALE |
<< We decided to use flush riveting on the HS and VS, and they look pretty
good >>
Just out of curiosity, were you contemplating using round-head rivets? Hope
you get to build another RV soon.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com (Stephen Paul Johnson) |
| Subject: | Re: HS Skeleton and Predrilled Skins |
You wrote:
>
>Friends-
>
>Ok, I've beat my head against the wall long enough (and really can't
stand
>the sight of my own blood) and have to pose this question:
>
>On the empennage, why does Vans want me to attach the 608 rib to the
602
>front spar of the horizontal stabilizer before going onto the jig?
>
You need the new Orndorff video on the pre-punched empennage. No, I
don't get a commission on this :) One of the reasons I'm not in such a
panic to get going on the wings for my RV-8 is that I want to wait for
the video from George. Call George, give him your credit card number,
and you'll have the video in a few days. By the way, his sequence is
also different from the RV-8 instructions, similar to the sequence on
the earlier video, and much better in my opinion.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #800121
skinning HS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Chat-Glastar H.S. |
Well, Rvers, we finished up the Glastar horizontal stab, today. The
experience will help me remember to appreciate Van's airplanes a little more.
The H.S. is 9' 11" long and 17" wide. It has 12 main ribs, 12 nose ribs
and a front and rear spar. The skin is only .020" and AD470 3 (round head)
are used on the skins. Boy, do I miss flush riveting on heavier skins. We
didn't really have too many frustrations. We drilled the skins #40 and I
think this was too big. By the time you cleco, un-cleco, debur and
re-cleco, the holes in the thin skin tend to get larger. The H.S. is not
very deep, so getting a large hand and bar in and riveting on so many ribs
tends to make your hand cramp up. Because of the design, little #3 pop
rivets must be used on the nose ribs. The predrilled skins had several
front spar rivet holes located on the center line of the web of the main
ribs, which meant pop rivets in this location, as well.
The point: When a first time builder reaches the point, when he first
starts building, that he's about ready to tear out his hair, it could be
worse. Point #2: I like Van's HS MUCH better and can't wait to get back to
work on my second RV-6.
Bad news today. Much, much more work is now required in the fuselage
bulkead area to strengthen the tail cone and this is all fiberglass
work---arrrrgggghhh!
Be glad that you're building a proven design with most of the bugs worked
out. The Glastar is shapping up like the Glasair we built, one of the first
ones out. There were always revisions coming out right after we completed
something.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 1 Pc. Wing Skins |
>>I read somewhere that Van was offering 1 pc. wing skins, but they were
>>not advertised. Does anyone know:
>
>Van will grudgingly sell you one-piece wing skins. He will not ship them,
>so unless you are in the portland area, forget it. They are NOT
>pre-punched.
>
>If you REALLY want a single-piece top wingskin, you must order the sheets
>of .032 2024T3 yourself from an aluminum supplier.
>
>I seriously contemplated going this route, but I decided against it due to
>cost. When I started riveting the top skins down, I was glad I did not.
>It was a lot easier to rivet the two skins than one big one.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Dave Barnhart
>barnhart(at)a.crl.com
>rv-6 sn 23744
>Fitting the sliding canopy
Dave, Don't mean to dump on you, but, unless Van's has changed policy
within the last year, they will crate and send you one piece wing skins. I
bought 3 sets of top RV-6 wing skins and had the crate sent to a friend in
Wyoming. He picked his two skins out and later a friend passing through
hauled (two sets of skins) home to me. Of course, I have to haul them back
to Wyoming next year when I move. Rats.
These skins were sheared to size and you get to keep all of the cut-offs.
I figure I have enough material to build a 1/2 scale RV-6:)
It would be ideal if several builders could go together a share the cost
of crating (I think it was $65.00) and freight.
I intend to back rivet my top skins and stayed with the two piece skins
for the bottom.
BTW, I'm sure this is a big hassle for Van's and they would prefer not to
mess with it. If you can find "flat" aluminum sheet locally, that would be
fine. Of course, it would be nice if you could get it sheared, as well. I
wouldn't use rolled .032" for a top wing skin, by the way.
Regards, Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: New DC Bus Center |
>> While I am not qualified to debate the technical
>> operating characteristics of the system, I believe its greatest
>> shortcoming is its lack of easy repair. If it went on the blink, I
>> couldn't begin to diagnose the faulty component; on the other hand, no
>> matter what kind of electrical system I fabricate myself, I will be
>> intimately familiar with its components and design approach, and will
>> thus be able to isolate problems and repair them myself.
Good point!
>> I would speculate that a more owner/builder-maintenance-oriented
>> evolution of this self-contained, prepackaged electrical system concept
>> would be a welcomed product in the homebuilt comminuity.
The biggest advantage of at least one of the integrated power
distribution system packages is the nicely labled panel overlay.
I'm working on a source for NC engraved, black anodized panels
with color-filled lettering for a price that's competitive with
engraved plastic . . . done from AutoCad drawings so that
customization is easy . . . watch this space.
>> Until then, anybody have a good source/phone number for Microswitch
>> products?
Newark Electronics handles Microswitch . . . but why so expensive
a switch? If you're system is failure tolerant, as it should be,
then why spend lots of money for a switch that will last 2 airplane
lifetimes when for under $10 you can get a switch that will last
one airplane lifetime . . .
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
*********************************
* Go ahead, make my day . . . *
* Show me where I'm wrong. *
*********************************
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Harris <mharris(at)mail.microsys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6a Stab. and Wing kit FOR SALE |
>
><< We decided to use flush riveting on the HS and VS, and they look pretty
>good >>
>
>Just out of curiosity, were you contemplating using round-head rivets?
No - I meant to say the skins were machine countersunk instead of dimpled
- thanks for pointing that out.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jbrick(at)wolfenet.com |
| Subject: | Lewiston Maine Builders |
I have a friend in Lewiston Maine that wants to visit an RV project. Any
builders up thataway?
John Brick
jbrick(at)wolfenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan Carroll <carroll(at)geology.wisc.edu> |
| Subject: | Empeage flange strips |
This is a pretty simple question, and hopefully not repeating countless
other postings: on the HS rear spar flange strips, the manual says to
"smooth edges and surfaces to satin finish equivalent to 400 grit" and
remove all cutting and milling marks. On my pieces there are also various
small scratches and some minor pitting; do these surfaces need to be
PERFECTLY smooth, or can minor imperfections be tolerated? I don't want to
remove more material than necessary.
Thanks,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Quickbuild web page... |
I just got some pictures of my quickbuild up on the web, at the address
listed below.
Rob Acker
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
(r.acker@ix.netcom.com or http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Useful Load, Pilot Weight and Energy |
Hi Folks,
There has been a fair amount of discussion lately about increasing
useful load by decreasing pilot weight, diets, etc.
I have latched onto something beginning about four weeks ago which
has resulted in an 8 pound loss and enough increased energy to add
about an hour and a half to my building day. And without dieting
(for all you 'see'-food eaters)! If you'd like to hear about it,
just email me privately.
Hey, I got my August RVAtor yesterday. Boy, these mails are getting
worse and worse. So if you are looking for yours, it ought to be
coming soon.
Best regards,
Bill Costello
bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Boudro" <dboudro(at)pop.nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine heaters |
Thanks Mike,
I think I'll give your idea a try.
--
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Boudro" <dboudro(at)pop.nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine heaters |
Thanks Bob,
I'll look into these. Yes it does get cold enough down here!
--
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joehine(at)mi.net (joehine) |
| Subject: | Re: Lewiston Maine Builders |
>I have a friend in Lewiston Maine that wants to visit an RV project. Any
>builders up thataway?
>
>John Brick
>jbrick(at)wolfenet.com
>
John,
I am not sure where Lewiston Maine is, but if it is not too far from the
boarder there are three of us building here in Fredericton N.B. in Canada. A
four, two sixes and and eight,( one guy is building a six and a eight at the
same time). We would be glad to show your friend the projects if he's
interested and close enough
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engines & Props-chatter |
<< I've been wondering about using an Ivo Prop on an RV. I can't
recall ever seeing one. They're cheaper than a traditional cs prop. Any
one have any experience with Ivos?
>>
I have quite a bit of experience with them. In fact I am an Ivo dealer.
They work VERY well in low-hp situations like ultralights (up to about 80hp)
but so far they are very unreliable on larger engines.
They have been trying to work the bugs out of one for 160-180 hp
installations for quite some time now. It shows a lot of promise, but it
apparently needs some re-designing to handle that kind of load.
Ed Bundy (off to see Mike Seager this weekend!)
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aux Fuel Tanks |
<< The one that particularly caught my eye was a 12 gal model,
foam filled, with dimensions 17"x17"x11", a 2" sump area and molded
recesses for (metal) straps. $95.95 -about the same price I had budgeted
to construct my own and obviously much quicker and easier. Absolutely
great, except that I have become conditioned to be wary of non-metallic
fuel vessels. There have been many documented instances of fires caused
by static discharge while people FUELED FROM plastic cans/tanks. I also
own a Cessna 140 with autogas STC and have been flying it for years
fueled almost exclusively from plastic 5 gal cans. >>
Interesting idea. I've fueled airplanes for years out of 5 gal cans and
never had a problem either, but the potential sure does exist. (Kinda like a
fan exploding paint fumes, eh? Ugh, let's not start that again)
I don't think the problem would exist going the "other way", i.e. putting gas
into the tank. Race cars have been using non-metalic fuel cells for a long
time, and if it was a fire hazard I don't think it would be approved. I
think the static builds up from flowing out of the spout more than moving
around in the can.
However, this is just off the cuff. I'm sure there are folks around here
that would know more scientifically.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Another "QuickBuilder" gets started ... |
<< (Those with experience must keep in mind that a neophyte who has just
plunked down many $$$ can only imagine ruining it all at this stage.... I
understand this is normal and I will get over it ;-} )
I know this info is relevant to a much smaller RV audience (if relevant
at all) but hopefully it will let some "newbie" out there know that they
are not alone ;-) >>
I'm sure it's relevant to a lot of people. We've all started somewhere, and
I remember looking at the drill, back to the HS spar, back at the drill,
wondering what I was getting myself into. However, I was only contemplating
turning an $800 empanage kit into scrap - it must be FAR more intimidating
starting on something that looks like (and has the value of) an airplane.
Take your time, get lots of (qualified) help, and have fun! I think the main
thing that those of us doing it "the old fashioned way" have over the QB
builders is that we got to make our early mistakes on relatively inexpensive
parts. You are going to make mistakes during your learning curve - just try
to make them on small parts. :)
Just remember there are very few terminal mistakes in this project. Of
those, most have already been taken care of by the factory for QB's.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Spinner Installation |
I was reading Jim Cone's great newsletter and came to a builder hint on
fitting the spinner. That jogged my memory and I thought I'd pass on
another way of finding two points, 180 degrees opposed.
Measuring with a steel tape, sticky tape, string, etc. is kind of a pain
when trying to determine the two 180 degree points. I stuck the rear
spinner bulkhead into the spinner as evenly as I could so that the spinner
would hold it's shape. I then set the spinner down on some thin
(translucent) paper, traced the circumference of the spinner on the paper
and then folded the paper at the diameter until the pen marks from the left
half matched the pen marks from the right half. I then creased the paper
and there are the two points. Unfold the paper, put the spinner back on it
and mark the 180 degree points on the spinner. Bob Skinner RV-6
BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Aux Fuel Tanks |
>It would be nice to have a little more fuel capacity in my -4. My flying
>is primarily X/C, and being single, I figured I'd like to stick an aux
>tank in the back seat (a la Jon Johansen -except with a little less
>capacity!) so I could sit at altitude a little longer, and watch more of
>planet earth go by.
I'm not sure how much of a rebuild you're doing, but in case work on the
wings is involved...
Some people have talked about putting RV-6 tanks into RV-4s to get extra
capacity. Also perhaps putting extra tanks in the outer wing bays.
I was also told of a guy at Osh who was selling external drop-style wing tanks.
Hope this helps... please also let the rest of us know whatever else you
discover.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
| Subject: | Empeage flange strips |
RV>This is a pretty simple question, and hopefully not repeating countless
RV>other postings: on the HS rear spar flange strips, the manual says to
RV>"smooth edges and surfaces to satin finish equivalent to 400 grit" and
RV>remove all cutting and milling marks. On my pieces there are also various
RV>small scratches and some minor pitting; do these surfaces need to be
RV>PERFECTLY smooth, or can minor imperfections be tolerated? I don't want to
RV>remove more material than necessary.
RV>Thanks,
What I was told is that you just need to smooth it enough so that your
fingernail doesn't catch on any scratches. A scotchbrite wheel works
best for this purpose.
Good luck!
Rod Woodard
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
RV-8, #80033
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mcarob(at)ozemail.com.au |
| Subject: | Priming/Finishing of major Steel Components |
Fellow Builders/RV Pilots,
A group of 6/6A builders in Melbourne Australia are approaching the end of
the "wing thing" and are psyching up for the Fuselage.
We need a little advice from builders who have fitted some of the bigger
steel components, such as the Rudder-bars, control columns, Engine mount etc.
What type of Primer/Finish have people employed ?
Does normal "Red-oxide" type primer suffice or have processes such as Powder
Coating or Chrome Electroplating been used on the more visible tube surfaces.
Most importantly,
(1) would any of the etching processes reduce the strength of these
components
(2) would any primed or plated surfaces interfere with bearing-block
operation as
required say in the rudder-bar mounting.
We would appreciate your ideas,
Rob McAnally and Friends
mcarob(at)ozemail.com.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen ) |
Does any of you have experience with the New Horizon's reduction gear
and/or props?
My concern here is the durability of the reduction gear's sprag system
and of the Q-tipped propeller's performance at RV speeds.
The New Horizon's reduction gear is about $2,000 as opposed to Ross's
$2,850.
Finn
finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Priming/Finishing of major Steel Components |
ozemail.com.au!mcarob(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Fellow Builders/RV Pilots,
>
> A group of 6/6A builders in Melbourne Australia are approaching the end of
> the "wing thing" and are psyching up for the Fuselage.
> We need a little advice from builders who have fitted some of the bigger
> steel components, such as the Rudder-bars, control columns, Engine mount etc.
>
> What type of Primer/Finish have people employed ?
>
> Does normal "Red-oxide" type primer suffice or have processes such as Powder
> Coating or Chrome Electroplating been used on the more visible tube surfaces.
>
> Most importantly,
> (1) would any of the etching processes reduce the strength of these
> components
> (2) would any primed or plated surfaces interfere with bearing-block
> operation as
> required say in the rudder-bar mounting.
>
> We would appreciate your ideas,
>
> Rob McAnally and Friends
> mcarob(at)ozemail.com.au
I shot all my steel stuff with Marhyde. I think some people
are afraid of using it on steel because it is self etching
and thus might reduce some of the strength of the part. I'm
going to use it on my engine mount have used it on rudder
pedals etc. and am very happy with it
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | The Smiths <kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engines & Props-chatter |
Experience with Ivo props:
The RV-6 at OSH this year had Ivo prop blades in the variable pitch hub
built by NSI, if I am not mistaken. The two bladed version they used was
a terrible mismatch to the RV-6, resulting in fair to poor performance in
both climb and cruise.
There is a RV-4 around the mid west with a four bladed composite prop,
which looks like one of Ivo's. He's reletivel happy with its
performance. He says climb is not that great, cruise and quiet are good.
Ken Smith.rv-6 on a pace to finish in about ten years, sigh.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Wiza" <joe(at)flnet.com> |
First time on the net, just an observer up to this point. I have to
situations I'd like to present.
Just finished the rudder (pre punched) without any smiley's, however it
has some oil canning. The trailing edge looks according to plan where the
stiffners are, however the radius is slightly larger where the stiffners
are not.
I believe where I went wrong was when I shapped the trailing edge of the
rudder in the brake, I did overbend as suggested but maybe not enough, the
leading edge of the skin ends were about twice the width of the rudder
spar. (at the time I thought overbending to much might cause a crack in
trailing ede even with wood doll in place).
Proposed solution: Drill out all the spar/rib rivets then brake the
trailing edge (and maybe insert some smiley's) some more. Any other ideas?
Drawing 4PP dated 1/12/96 shows the inboard stiffners on the right
elevator 4.5" from the root end of the skin. Is this in error looks like
6.5" would place it correctly. Also the stiffners are positioned (Web)
just the opposite on the bottom of the drawing ref the top depiction I
elected to go with the top example!!!
Rudder/Elevator sort of
joe(at)flnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
I spoke with a rep. from a 3M distributor here in the midwest who has
told me about a product that they sell that replaces rivets. This
product is a double sided tape and they swear it has the same holding
strength as a rivet but is actually better because it will not wear
under side to side (shear) vibration. I was very skeptical, but she
said my reaction was typical and that this tape is now in use on some
commercial aircraft. I am not ready to tape my wing leading edges on
quite yet, but I am intrigued. Has any one lese heard or seen this
product???
She says she will give me a roll to try next week and a spec sheet. I
can post the specs if interested.
--
Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
I posted a question a couple of weeks ago regarding Belted Air Power
from Las Vegas and did not get any response... So being stubborn, I'll
try again.
I would like any input or update on the Chevy Vortec project that Belted
Air Power is working on. It sounded promising, but still had bugs to
work out. Any info appreciaited.
--
Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
________________________________________________________________________________
Rick Osgood wrote:
> I would like any input or update on the Chevy Vortec project that Belted
> Air Power is working on. It sounded promising, but still had bugs to
> work out. Any info appreciaited.
Rick,
Do you read the "rec.aviation.homebuilt" newsgroup? Bill Billups gives us
almost weekly updates on a Vortec project. It just might be the same one.
There are two posts from Friday and Saturday on there now.
Bob Moore
Lurker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Just Tape it!! |
> I spoke with a rep. from a 3M distributor here in the midwest who has
> told me about a product that they sell that replaces rivets.
Neat idea, but until Van says to "Go for it", I think I'll stick to
rivets. However, it might make our existing methods that much stronger.
Tape AND rivets...
-J
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
14190 47th Ave N.
Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan Carroll <carroll(at)geology.wisc.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Just Tape it!! |
>I spoke with a rep. from a 3M distributor here in the midwest who has
>told me about a product that they sell that replaces rivets. This
>product is a double sided tape and they swear it has the same holding
>strength as a rivet but is actually better because it will not wear
>under side to side (shear) vibration. I was very skeptical, but she
>said my reaction was typical and that this tape is now in use on some
>commercial aircraft. I am not ready to tape my wing leading edges on
>quite yet, but I am intrigued. Has any one lese heard or seen this
>product???
>
>She says she will give me a roll to try next week and a spec sheet. I
>can post the specs if interested.
>
>
>--
>Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
A member of our chapter brought in some of this stuff, which he was
considering using on a non-RV aluminum project (to date he has not done so
however). He had used the tape, which was about 1/16" thick, to bond two
strips of aluminum. None of us could pull it apart, which wouldn't
necessarily make me any more comfortable trusting my life to it. He also
mentioned it had been used commercially, but my recollection is that it was
for non-critical applications only (not to hold on wing skins?).
Alan Carroll
RV-8 #80177 - Empenage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Priming/Finishing of major Steel Components |
ozemail.com.au!mcarob(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Fellow Builders/RV Pilots,
>
> A group of 6/6A builders in Melbourne Australia are approaching the end of
> the "wing thing" and are psyching up for the Fuselage.
> We need a little advice from builders who have fitted some of the bigger
> steel components, such as the Rudder-bars, control columns, Engine mount etc.
>
> What type of Primer/Finish have people employed ?
>
> Does normal "Red-oxide" type primer suffice or have processes such as Powder
> Coating or Chrome Electroplating been used on the more visible tube surfaces.
>
> Most importantly,
> (1) would any of the etching processes reduce the strength of these
> components
> (2) would any primed or plated surfaces interfere with bearing-block
> operation as
> required say in the rudder-bar mounting.
>
> We would appreciate your ideas,
>
> Rob McAnally and Friends
> mcarob(at)ozemail.com.au
Rob and friends:
I think it's pretty common to use an epoxy primer on steel parts
followed up with the finish of your choice. Forming a good barrier
between steel parts and aluminum ones is the most critical point here. I
use an Epoxy Polyamide primer known as Super Coropon (I think I spelled
it right) followed up with Imron (and I wear an air-fed
respirator).Etching is not really necessary with steel as far as I know.
Good methods for paint prep cleaning are steel wool (okay on steel parts
- but NEVER on Al), Stotch Brite for Metal and bead blasting (if you
have that luxury - also good for eliminating stress risers, by the way).
Chrome plating is great for some parts - cosmetic, non-structural ones.
But I would be careful using plating on things such as engine mounts,
etc. beacuse unless the part is specially heat treated after plating
(baked) the crystal structure of the metal can be adversely affected.
The part can become embrittled. I'm sure there are others out there who
are much more knowledgeable in this area than I am.
Scott
N4ZW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
Robert Moore wrote:
>
> Rick Osgood wrote:
>
> > I would like any input or update on the Chevy Vortec project that Belted
> > Air Power is working on. It sounded promising, but still had bugs to
> > work out. Any info appreciaited.
>
> Rick,
>
> Do you read the "rec.aviation.homebuilt" newsgroup? Bill Billups gives us
> almost weekly updates on a Vortec project. It just might be the same one.
> There are two posts from Friday and Saturday on there now.
>
> Bob Moore
> Lurker
Thanks for the reply... Unfortunetly, I do not have news group access
through my current work connection. Do you have Bill's e-mail address??
Thanks
--
Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Garrett <bgarrett(at)fast.net> |
You wrote:
>I posted a question a couple of weeks ago regarding Belted Air Power
>from Las Vegas and did not get any response... So being stubborn, I'll
>try again.
>
>I would like any input or update on the Chevy Vortec project that Belted
>Air Power is working on. It sounded promising, but still had bugs to
>work out. Any info appreciaited.
I too have been curious about the silence regarding this project. I was one
of the listers to see the project and thought it might be a successful
venture. I just now sent a message to Bill Phillips asking him for an
update. He is the engineer from the group that was giving us updates on a
regular basis for a period of time.
Hopefully he will reply to the list or me with an update.
Regards,
Bill
Bill Garrett Barb Garrett
RV-6A airplane builder Quilter and Quilt Historian
bgarrett(at)fast.net Pottstown, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder/Elevator |
You wrote:
>
>First time on the net, just an observer up to this point. I have to
>situations I'd like to present.
> Just finished the rudder (pre punched) without any smiley's, however it
>has some oil canning. The trailing edge looks according to plan where the
>stiffners are, however the radius is slightly larger where the stiffners
>are not.
> I believe where I went wrong was when I shapped the trailing edge of
the
>rudder in the brake, I did overbend as suggested but maybe not enough, the
>leading edge of the skin ends were about twice the width of the rudder
>spar. (at the time I thought overbending to much might cause a crack in
>trailing ede even with wood doll in place).
> Proposed solution: Drill out all the spar/rib rivets then brake the
>trailing edge (and maybe insert some smiley's) some more. Any other ideas?
>
<>
>Rudder/Elevator sort of
>joe(at)flnet.com
>
>
Hi Joe,
I think I might call Van's on this one. Your solution will, I think,
depend on whether or not you put RTV inside the trailing edge where the
stiffeners are. If not, outside of calling Van's, I would put it back
in the break and gently bend it down a little more to see what that
does. If I put the RTV in, I would leave it alone and see how it flies
and replace it if need be.
This probably doesn't help much does it?
Best regards,
Bill Costello
bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com (Michael McGee) |
I saw the Belted Air Power RV-6 at the Copper State Flyin. It is a great
looking and performing piece of work. I am looking forward to seeing their
finished product, hopefully soon. They seem to be a very good team working
on a solution/alternative to $19,000/180HP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | GPS glideslope? Miniature Mitchell Eng. Instruments |
I am building my instrument panel on my RV6A and have the following questions:
1.) Has anyone had any experiences (good or bad) with the Mitchell miniature
engine instruments that are put together in clusters ( sold by Aircraft
Spruce and Wicks ).
2.) I have been noticing that some catalogs have GPS's in them that do
vertical guidance. How do these units compare in accuracy vertically to a
regular navigation glideslope receiver ? Also, does anybody know when the
FAA intends to allow us the ability to use GPS as a primary IFR navigation
radio.
Thanks ... Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com (Michael McGee) |
| Subject: | Re: New Horizons |
1) Find out who and what is flying the combo and how many trouble free
hours they have had. The company should have this info.
-or-
2) If you are going to be one of their beta testers, get a beta price.
Mike McGee, Vancouver, WA, jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com, RV-6 sn 23530 ..
pilot, skydiver, plane builder, etc, etc.
Ever notice that sometimes when you notice others thinking the way you do
that you don't know if you should feel vindicated or concerned? :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder/Elevator |
You may just try bending the trailing edge further while it's still
assembled. Is the oil canning located near the trailing edge or nearer the
leading edge? I found if you do not bend the leading edge sufficiently and
are forced to pull the skins together, you will get some oil canning close to
the spar. This wasn't much of a problem on my 6 with .016 skin, but was
noticable on my 8 which of course has .020 skin. I drilled out the pop
rivets on my 8 rudder and bent the leading edge further, which took care of
the problem.
Rick McBride
RV6 20404
RV8 80027
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Belted: I pulled this from rec.aviation.homebuilt |
Guys -- Given that some people don't have NetNews access, I pulled
this from usenet. I hope Bill Phillips doesn't mind. I'm also going
to pull any others from the same thread and toss them in here.
-Joe
billphil(at)ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> Hello from the Old Mens Airplane Building Project..the OMABP!!!
>
> For those of you who are new to the newsgroup, we built an RV-6A and put
> a Chevy Vortec V-6 engine in it using Jess Meyers PSRU-its a belt
> drive with a 1.43/1 reduction. Tom Jones and Jess Meyers flew the R V-6
> a to the Copperstate fly-in this weekend and had a blast. Even Paul
> Lamar showed up in the booth two days in a row with his tape recorder
> running. Van was there and some other RVs. Jess flew next to one
> with
> a 160 Lycoming in it. They compared climbs and speeds and ours was just
> about right on the money with the 160 they flew against. This new
> Edelbrock manifold with a 500 cfm Holly Carburetor has nice uniform
> distribution. The EGTs were all within 50 degrees. Tom and Jess
> didnt push the system much to get there and back. They leaned to
> 1300
> degrees and just left it rich. The fuel burn was 8 gallons/hour and
> they we doing right at 180 mph at about 7500 msl. So, this was not a
> speed-run and the Warp-Drive prop is not dialed in yet. This was just a
> leisurely run to an air-show. Everything worked without a hitch. The
> cooling system kept the engine right on the money at 190 during climb
> outs and cruise and Phoenix was in the mid 90s each day. The
> temperature split between the coolant in the engine and that coming out
> of the radiator was a good 40 degrees in cruise at 7500 msl (OAT of 65
> degrees). Were having some shaking problems with the left main
> landing
> gear that we need to correct but nothing major on the Vortec other than
> some more tuning. We think we may back off on the propeller pitch from
> 20 to 17 degrees and run a little higher rpm. Jess and Tom ran down and
> back at 3400 rpm. It was sort of felt by all that they were getting
> about 170 hp out of the Vortec. If we re-pitch and run at 3800 rpm the
> climb will definitely come up but we think the top-end speed will too. ==0
>
> We may also change the Holly to a 650 cfm. Thats about it.
> Theres
> just nothing more to say at this time. We really arent tuned yet and
> that will take a few more weeks. Once we get close to the final
> configuration Ill fly some timed climbs and do some speed runs using
> my GPS and post the data here.
>
> From this initial data it really appears that 200 mph and climb rates
> over 1000 fpm loaded will be no problem once were tuned. Tom was
> telling me last night that hes been working up costs for this
> installation. The whole package, firewall forward with prop, engine and
> all can be put together for about $10,000 or maybe even less. We never
> set out to build a racer, we just wanted it to perform as well as a 160
> Lycoming using dinosaur technology, i.e. a carburetor and weve
> achieved
> that already. With a little tuning and tweaking Im sure well
> outperform the 160 Lyc. I like to think about what this little engine
> would do with tuned port injection but thats another project.
>
>
> Best Wishes to all,
>
> Bill Phillips from the OMABP
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
14190 47th Ave N.
Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elon Ormsby <ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Priming/Finishing of major Steel Components |
Scott writes...
(much snipped)...Stotch Brite for Metal and bead blasting (if you have that
luxury - also good for eliminating stress risers, by the way).
--------------------------------------
I would be careful about this last statement. There is a MAJOR difference
between bead blasting and shot peening even though both processes appear to
be identical by using compressed air and blasting some type of media onto
the part. Bead blasting may not eliminates stress raiser as you state, in
fact it may promote them depending on the process. A common application is
to blast round glass beads onto the part. The impact is supposed to clean
the part of surface contamination and also leave a slight indention onto the
surface. The theory is that this small, round indentation caused by the
impact of the glass bead will create compressive stress throughout the
entire surface layer. It may also smooth out or eliminate discontinuities
that could be the start of fatigue cracks. This is a good thing, however, in
practice it rarely works out that way. The glass beads fracture and become
sharp projectiles that will actually put sharp divots (albeit
microscopically in size) into your part. This will PROMOTE crack growth!
This is bad. You commonly see great claims from rebuild shops (both
automotive and aircraft) that clean many aluminum parts. In many cases
these parts are non-structural and under low stress (eg the fins on a
cylinder head) so the above doesn't matter. But in many cases the person
performing the process doesn't have the slightest idea of the
cause-and-effect of their work.
In addition, the bead blasting process is widely misnamed. Media is supplied
in many grit sizes as well as many different materials. Crushed walnut
shells are extremely sharp and very aggressive and effective. Plastic
pellets are environmentally friendly (compared to the silicates of glass)
and are also gaining wide spread use. There are too many different media to
list and all have a specific reason for their existence. Most shops widely
misuse glass beads because they simply keep re-using them until they are
worn out(as determined by the slowing down of their cleaning action) and
they then dump in a new load of beads. When brand new, glass beads "may"
promote peening but they quickly wear out and actually cut into your
material. If it is a critical part this may be disastrous.
All work (on a critical part) should be done to some specification. Eg, Use
No.230 cast-steel shot to obtain an almen 0.012" - 0.015" arc height (a spec
I use for racing connecting rods). That means the technician performing the
work may not know the reason why but does know the work will be inspected to
meet spec. They may have to, adjust air pressure, nozzle distance from the
part, their spray pattern technique, run a test piece and change other
variables to insure a proper surface condition is applied. Steel shot (and
not glass) is the material commonly used to accomplish the durability effect
you wish to accomplish. Check out the shop doing your work and ask if they
ever do specification work. If they don't you may want to find a shop that
does.
Elon
ormsby1(at)popsicle.llnl.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Priming/Finishing of major Steel Components |
Rob,
I went into this fairly thoroughly and decided to use a polyurethane paint
over appropriate self-etching primer on the steel parts. I cleaned them by
sand blasting them.
The powder coating people are usually in the business of making lamps and
tables and not things that fly, they all made me nervous. The powder coating
is quite thick and has mild structural properties of its own and my feeling
was that if you had a poor job, you might get corrosion underneath the
powder coating where it would remain out of site for some time.
When you do paint your steel, use a light colour for the engine mount to
facillitate crack detection.
Cheers,
Leo Davies,
6A, Sydney
leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
>Fellow Builders/RV Pilots,
>
>A group of 6/6A builders in Melbourne Australia are approaching the end of
>the "wing thing" and are psyching up for the Fuselage.
>We need a little advice from builders who have fitted some of the bigger
>steel components, such as the Rudder-bars, control columns, Engine mount etc.
>
>What type of Primer/Finish have people employed ?
>
>Does normal "Red-oxide" type primer suffice or have processes such as Powder
>Coating or Chrome Electroplating been used on the more visible tube surfaces.
>
>Most importantly,
> (1) would any of the etching processes reduce the strength of these
>components
> (2) would any primed or plated surfaces interfere with bearing-block
>operation as
> required say in the rudder-bar mounting.
>
>We would appreciate your ideas,
>
>Rob McAnally and Friends
>mcarob(at)ozemail.com.au
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
>I too have been curious about the silence regarding this project. I was one
>of the listers to see the project and thought it might be a successful
>venture. I just now sent a message to Bill Phillips asking him for an
>update. He is the engineer from the group that was giving us updates on a
>regular basis for a period of time.
The Belted Air Power RV-6A was at Copperstate this year. There was an
informal fly-off between it and the factory RV-6A. Performance between the
two was pretty evenly matched.
Unfortunately, I did not get the opportunity to examine the airplane
closely (I'm the Copperstate Aircraft Registration Chairman, and so I don't
get to see much there.) Bill did post an update on rec.aviation.homebuilt
after the airplane returned to Las Vegas. According to his post, it looks
like a firewall forward installation will be around 10K.
Unless anyone objects, I'll be happy to start re-posting Bill's
rec.aviation.homebuilt posts concerning this project here on rv-list.
BEst Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
Fitting the sliding canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Hollendorfer <phredyh(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Gud evening Everyone,
I read a post earlier today with regard to George Orndorff's videos
on the RV-8 empennage. Can someone tell me how to get ahold of George
and his goodies. (maybe you're reading this George). Sure would like to
hear more about this product!.... Thanx all, Fred>
--
FC Hollendorfer
RV-8
Garage & Tools
phredyh(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
Dave Barnhart wrote:
>
> >I too have been curious about the silence regarding this project. I was one
> >of the listers to see the project and thought it might be a successful
> >venture. I just now sent a message to Bill Phillips asking him for an
> >update. He is the engineer from the group that was giving us updates on a
> >regular basis for a period of time.
>
> The Belted Air Power RV-6A was at Copperstate this year. There was an
> informal fly-off between it and the factory RV-6A. Performance between the
> two was pretty evenly matched.
>
> Unfortunately, I did not get the opportunity to examine the airplane
> closely (I'm the Copperstate Aircraft Registration Chairman, and so I don't
> get to see much there.) Bill did post an update on rec.aviation.homebuilt
> after the airplane returned to Las Vegas. According to his post, it looks
> like a firewall forward installation will be around 10K.
>
> Unless anyone objects, I'll be happy to start re-posting Bill's
> rec.aviation.homebuilt posts concerning this project here on rv-list.
>
> BEst Regards,
>
> Dave Barnhart
> barnhart(at)a.crl.com
> rv-6 sn 23744
> Fitting the sliding canopy
I, for one, would love to hear the updates on this project. Please post
or send them to me personally.
Thanks again Dave :)
--
Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg) |
| Subject: | Re: Just Tape it!! |
>I spoke with a rep. from a 3M distributor here in the midwest who has
>told me about a product that they sell that replaces rivets. This
>product is a double sided tape and they swear it has the same holding
>strength as a rivet but is actually better because it will not wear
>under side to side (shear) vibration. I was very skeptical, but she
>said my reaction was typical and that this tape is now in use on some
>commercial aircraft. I am not ready to tape my wing leading edges on
>quite yet, but I am intrigued. Has any one lese heard or seen this
>product???
>
>She says she will give me a roll to try next week and a spec sheet. I
>can post the specs if interested.
>
>
>--
>Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
Howdy,
A friend used to sell it. He considered using it on his Grumman TR-1B, but
declined. Why... 1) No data as to longevity of adhesion, though they do
use the tape for panels on the exterior of buses and trucks. But how many
50 year old busses or trucks do you see on the road or flying? 2) Though
very tough we were able with a small strip 1/2" able to twist and shear the
foam like material so the pieces seperated. 3) It had thickness. There is 0
thickness between sheets of Alum using rivets.
All in all it seemed neat but the 3 reasons above disuaded my friend and
myself from using the stuff. It might work well with an interior non
structural part though.
Doug
RV-6A In the womb once again.
Doug Bloomberg
Denver, CO
dougb(at)mail.diac.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: HS Skeleton and Predrilled Skins |
Jeff, You are absolutely on the right track. I did it that way and it worked
fine. Fred Laforge ......Ferdfly(at)aol.com
EAA
Chapter 448 Upland CA.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
You wrote:
>
>Unless anyone objects, I'll be happy to start re-posting Bill's
>rec.aviation.homebuilt posts concerning this project here on rv-list.
>
>BEst Regards,
>
>Dave Barnhart
>barnhart(at)a.crl.com
>rv-6 sn 23744
>Fitting the sliding canopy
>
I, for one, would like to see them, Dave. I'm certainly interested in
a cheaper up-front and much cheaper overhaul engine alternative.
Best regards,
Bill Costello
bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joehine(at)mi.net (joehine) |
| Subject: | Re: Lewiston Maine Builders |
>>I have a friend in Lewiston Maine that wants to visit an RV project. Any
>>builders up thataway?
>>
>>John Brick
>>jbrick(at)wolfenet.com
>>
>
>John,
>
>I am not sure where Lewiston Maine is, but if it is not too far from the
>boarder there are three of us building here in Fredericton N.B. in Canada. A
>four, two sixes and and eight,( one guy is building a six and a eight at the
>same time). We would be glad to show your friend the projects if he's
>interested and close enough
>
sorry signature didn't go out with original message, here it is
joe
joehine(at)mi.net Comp. 9, Site 8, RR#4
506-452-1072 Home Fredericton, NB
506-452-3495 Work Canada, E3B 4X5
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John McMahon <rv6(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | F611@F612 BULKHEADS |
DOES ANYONE REMEMBER DO YOU NOTCH BULKHEADS F611 &F612 FOR
THE STRINGERS BOTTOM SIDE ,OR NOTCH THE STRINGERS ON 611 ,612 POSITIONS.
THANKS
JOHN MCMAHON
________________________________________________________________________________
>I posted a question a couple of weeks ago regarding Belted Air Power
>from Las Vegas and did not get any response... So being stubborn, I'll
>try again.
>
>I would like any input or update on the Chevy Vortec project that Belted
>Air Power is working on. It sounded promising, but still had bugs to
>work out. Any info appreciaited.
>
>--
I saw the airplane taxi by at Copperstate, so I suppose it's flying! I didn't
catch up to the pilot to ask the usual FAQ's, tho. Sure sounded good.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Just Tape it!! |
>I spoke with a rep. from a 3M distributor here in the midwest who has
>told me about a product that they sell that replaces rivets. This
>product is a double sided tape and they swear it has the same holding
>strength as a rivet but is actually better because it will not wear
>under side to side (shear) vibration. I was very skeptical, but she
>said my reaction was typical and that this tape is now in use on some
>commercial aircraft. I am not ready to tape my wing leading edges on
>quite yet, but I am intrigued. Has any one lese heard or seen this
>product???
>
>She says she will give me a roll to try next week and a spec sheet. I
>can post the specs if interested.
As some of this stuff is v thin- 5 mil, I think, you'd better have good
alignment & contact between parts! Actually, I use this stuff a lot, to hold
parts (shims, etc) in place while drilling & riveting. I don't have enough
faith to use it structurally, altho that's it's intended use. I do use it to
attach the rudder trim tabs on the birds I work on. BTW, it's available in 40
mil thickness, and I suppose many in between.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
>I have been noticing that some catalogs have GPS's in them that do
>vertical guidance. How do these units compare in accuracy vertically to a
>regular navigation glideslope receiver ? Also, does anybody know when the
>FAA intends to allow us the ability to use GPS as a primary IFR navigation
>radio.
The vertical guidance offered currently is for approach step-down
or departure step-up waypoints only . . . you still use the
pressure altimeter for primary altitude reference.
TSO'd GPS receivers are available now. I belive you can now file IFR
with GPS only nav . . . of course there has to be a published GPS
(non-precision) approach at your destination along with IMC to match
the approach.
A number of folk have demonstrated GPS derived glideslope navigation
using a variety of error correction schemes not unlike those erected
by the Coast Guard. Similar systems for airplanesa are "in the works"
and scheduled to be in place within the next ten years or so. However,
given the FAA's past track record of technology exploitation and
implementation, I wouldn't hold my breath! In the mean time, get
yourself a nice little hand held (cheap) and enjoy the most hasstle
free point to point navigation you've ever experienced.
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========oOOo=(_)=oOOo==========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
Thanks ... Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New DC Bus Center |
| From: | Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)kewlaid.highfiber.com> |
Previously written (Bob Nuckolls):
> Newark Electronics handles Microswitch . . . but why so expensive
> a switch? If you're system is failure tolerant, as it should be,
> then why spend lots of money for a switch that will last 2 airplane
> lifetimes when for under $10 you can get a switch that will last
> one airplane lifetime . . .
I liked the suggestion in the AeroElectric Connection, Appendix Z, page
Z-1, to use DPDT switches with one position spring loaded to center for
magneto switches; this enables the use of the left magneto switch's
spring-loaded position to activate the starter. The switch recommended
was Microswitch p/n 2TL1-5. I'm more than happy to use a less expensive
equivalent.
Mike Kukulski
kukulski(at)highfiber.com
RV-4 N96MK
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engines & Props-chatter |
<< Experience with Ivo props:
The RV-6 at OSH this year had Ivo prop blades in the variable pitch hub
built by NSI, if I am not mistaken. The two bladed version they used was
a terrible mismatch to the RV-6, resulting in fair to poor performance in
both climb and cruise.>>
I believe NSI is using Warp drive blades in what I heard was their design of
Ivoprop electric drive unit.
<< There is a RV-4 around the mid west with a four bladed composite prop,
which looks like one of Ivo's. He's reletivel happy with its
performance. He says climb is not that great, cruise and quiet are good.>>
Ivoprop does not have a four bladed prop. However, I have seen pictures of
four bladed props by Warp Drive.
Ken Smith.rv-6 on a pace to finish in about ten years, sigh.
>>
If you download the video from the rv-list page of my RV-3 taking off, you
will see that an Ivoprop on the LOM 243 cu. in. engine does not suffer from
lack of climb performance.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A w/ Ivoprop 68" dia. variable pitch prop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
BTW, Ivo feels he has resolved the last remaining design issues for
certification of the composite variable pitch prop. From what I have seen
and heard in the last year, whatever has been said about the Ivoprop MAGNUM
variable pitch prop prior to this date DOES NOT APPLY to the present design.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James & Mary Mc Phee <bluegum(at)ihug.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: O-320H2AD engine stuff |
>>From McManD(at)aol.com, David McManmon, Cicero NY
>
>I believe I see that there appears a greater arc and more >set back of the
( across the upper Barry) mount location's side to side cross
>tubing brace. Thus creating the Mag and Oil filter clearance.
>YES, the H mount has a greater arc across the top rear to clear the oil
casing at the rear, no matter how you press it will not fit. The mod is not
cheap to do as the mount will have to be held in a rigid frame to do a neat
job, swap it for the approved H mount, it was copied from mine in 1993 by
Van's. The very big advantage with this mount that nobody has appeared to
comprehend is that it is a Dynafocal 1 mount modified to take ant engine,
not just the H, so if you don't buy a H and buy one that fits the normal
mount, the H mount will still be okay, no need to send it back. What more
could you ask for.
It has nothing to do with the mag or filter clearance. I do not have a
recessed firewall and with a little bit of care change my filters without
making a mess.The mag is not a problem. In my opinion the H is a good
engine and I currently develop 185 hp with it.
A standard alternator is OK but automotive is better, refer the notes in
your earlier reply. Re the blisters, they are a must to give clearance at
the front, 2 crocodile eyes or "34"s are sufficient. You must allow the
engine to rock at start/close and aerobatics, better than fixing it later.
>The engine is a different shape therefore the standard baffle kit will not
fit, sell it or send it back for a credit and make your own.
>The firewall recess is different, I don't have any. High country SS exhaust
is OK..Starter is standard.Van's optional 0320-filtered air box , no
problem, fits straight on but VA 149 will not fit, standard 0320 cowl scoop
works just fine, no problems, I have left my previous message on for your
info, Really, you guys should stop all this chatter and get into some
serious building, you're worse than housewives.
>P.S. The cowl bumps are sexy.
>James Mc Phee, Auckland, New Zealand. ZK-MRV (edited). Writes:
>Due to fuel pump at the top LH front of engine you have to cut a 2 inch round
>hole and fibreglass a "blister" to it, if you want to balance, do the other
>side. No doubt you are fitting a mechanical pump on, so to allow for engine
>movement, the blister is a must. Re the alternator, all the builders in New
>Zealand are using the alternator out of a Mazda 323 E5 (1984-89) series which
>has no external blades, internal bearings are steel, built in regulator. No
>cowl modifications required, only a little pulley bracket mod which anyone
>can do. I run Claus Savier's CDI system on the right mag driving all the
>bottom plugs just like Jon Johanson. Also you will have to make your own
>baffle kit and the firewall recess supplied by Van's will be in the wrong
>place. I manage fine without a recess even though I have a full flow filter.
> Apart from the oil filler being up at the top of the cowl basically
everything else is straight forward.
>James, later writes: The CDI is mounted on top of the battery box, the TI
portion on
>the inside firewall. The coils on the engine mount cross members. All totally
>independant of the mag. We just stripped out the guts of the right mag and
>left it empty. MRV used to use 57 lbs fph @ 2,500rpm now use 49 @ 2,600 and
>runs beautifully. No lead on plugs using 100LL. Static run now 2,420rpm,
>used to be 2,150 rpm. Using 68 x 71 wooden prop. Claus Savier does not
>supply magnet brackets for "H", you have to make them yourself. I can fax a
design of them to you. It is THE BEST SYSTEM on the market. With this system
>you will have total redundancy and no rpm drop when you switch the mag off.
>Yes, it will keep running. Let me know how you get on. The H is a very good
>motor treated the right way, I treated mine with Microlon and will argue the
>case with anyone.
No later letters on the list thare are CDI discussions re Jeff Roses'
system, I believe it is simpler to fit and is cheaper but Jon Johanson got
and extra 10% when he fitted Lightspeed from Claus Savier in Santa Paula.
In the letters re extra fuel in RV-4s, again Jon Johanson is a past expert,
he has 1 hour in each wingtip and sells the kit, why would you want to hang
drop tanks and suffer the drag. Contact Jon Johanson in Australia.
>
>You guys in Melbourne, Jon will help you too.
This letter covers quite a few subjects and letters, hope it helps. I will
be in OZ for the next 8 days crawling the vineyards in NSW.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
This is dated October 18 -- updated on Belted Air Power.
------- from rec.aviation.homebuilt ------
Subject: Flight Test at the OMABP
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:11:12 -0700
From: Bill Phillips <billphil(at)ix.netcom.com>
Flight Report from the OMABP.
Until today I have been reporting the data produced by Jess Meyers
since he did the preliminary test piloting of the Chevy Vortec 262 V-6
installation in our RV-6a. Other than doing some high speed taxi tests
early in the project, and lifting it off once inadvertently, I never
even rode in the airplane, in flight, until today. This morning I got
into it and blasted off alone for the first time.
The OAT was 75, I poured the vernier throttle to it with a 15 knot
quartering head-wind. No sooner had I screwed the throttle all the way
in the airplane came to life. Without a steerable nose wheel it took a
slight amount of ruddering to keep it straight as torque changed. I
pulled some weight off the nose-wheel and the airplane popped off the
ground. Although I had been holding right rudder through the takeoff
roll, I was not holding right aileron when it decided to fly. The
result was a slight rolling moment to the left after no wheels were
supporting the structure. I immediately corrected but the stick was in
my left hand so instead of applying gentle pressure I MOVED the stick to
the right. The airplane popped right immediately to my surprise. So, I
moved the stick back to the left and over-controlled slightly. These
couple small gyrations got my attention and I thought the airplane might
be a bit twitchy in rollbut its not, its just sensitive. In fact
its about the most sensitive airplane Ive ever flown as far as roll
control. Well, all this took about 2 seconds to overcome then I
realized that I was indicating 100 mph so I horsed her up to maintain
that. The engine temperature was right on 190 and the thermostat was
doing its job. I looked over at the VSI in the stabilized climb and it
was indicating 1600 fpm. I had a clearance for a straight out departure
and I just kept on keepin on until I was at 5000 AGL (about 3
minutes). I dropped the nose and left her at full throttle to watch the
speed come up. At 23 inches of MP at a pressure altitude of 7000 ft the
speed cranked right on up to 180 mph. I had a GPS so I did three runs
at three vectors 120 degrees apart and later calculated the 180 mph
TAS. I backed off to 21 inches and got a respectable airspeed of 173
mph with an OAT at 55. Stabilized, I wanted to do some rolling and
pitching to watch fuel flow, and most importantly oil-pressure. I
pulled 2 gs in a 60 degree bank and nothing changed. I pulled the nose
up 30 degrees and as the rpm dropped my oil pressure went from 55 to 50
lb probably due to the rpm bleeding off. I reduced to slow flight at
about 70 indicated and couldnt believe the roll control. In fact
this airplane had the best roll rate and control of any GA airplane
that I have ever flown. The roll was snappy at 70 mph ( I think Ive
been flying my MINIMAX too much). We have a P-210 and a 182. The roll
in those is like a truck, although I roll both of them all the time
(dont tell the FAA). This, however, is like a Porche.
Well, we always knew that the airplane was good, its the automobile
engine installation we were trying to perfect. I did a lot of slow
flight in this today. I closed the cowl flaps and tried to drive the
temps up, but no joy. This little Chevy engine got up to 200 once when
I did everything I could to force it to heat up. I leaned it to peak,
slowed it down to 80 mph in a full power climb closed the cowl flaps and
only then did it heat up to 200, but that stabilized. It didnt
continue to heat.
I think the most impressive thing I did was the let-down. Without
worrying about a thermal shock condition I reduced power to 12 inches
and pointed the nose down until I was getting 3000 ft/min decent. The
speed ran right up there to 200 mph but the thermostat kept the engine
at a rock solid 190 degrees. I came out of the sky like an anvil, it
was great! The landings were as simple as could be. I did two, and I
put it on the numbers both times. I used 100 mph to drive around the
pattern and get on final. After popping two knotches of flaps the bird
came down beautifully. I was at 80 over the fence and greased her on at
about 55 or 60 (I wasnt looking).
This is getting long but Im still up there in my soul. I would just
like to say that I found nothing wrong. The oil temperature and oil
pressure (even at zero g) were normal. The coolant temp and the split
across the radiator were more than adequate. Fuel pressure, flow.all
of it was perfect. I actually thought I would be slightly unimpressed
after flying the fast planes I have had the opportunity to play with in
my lifetime. This little airplane felt beautiful. It felt like a
Porche. At airspeeds above 150 the roll was as snappy as some
fighters. That little Chevy truck engine just cranks out, turning about
3400 rpm with Jesss 1.43/1 PSRU and the Warp-Drive prop its a kick to
fly. I cant believe that Jess will probably sell this whole rig,
firewall forward for about $10k. In fact I havent told my wife this
yet but Ill probably buy this airplane from him.Oh no.. she might
see this.. I better post it and erase it fast.
Of course the real proof will be the safety and reliability of this
installation over a long period of time. Im enthusiastic and positive
considering the level of the designers and builders. And, I know all of
them and their credentials very well.
I have some pictures scanned of the airplane and the engine
installation as of today. If anyone wants a look, email me and Ill
transmit them to you in any format you want. Jpeg seems to make the
smallest files so that is the one Ive scanned them in.
Best Wishes,
Bill
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
14190 47th Ave N.
Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
Subject: Another Flight Test at the OMABP
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 15:43:17 -0700
From: Bill Phillips <billphil(at)ix.netcom.com>
I took her up again today for some precision testing. The slight
bobble in roll I felt yesterday on take-off was countered today by
holding slight right stick as I rotated. I flew alone today in cooler
air, about 50 degrees. The Chevy engine just hummed. After rotation I
stablized a climb at 100 mph indicated and was reading 1600 fpm on the
VSI. The accuracy of the VSI is unconfirmed because I didnt time
myself to each altitude. After leveling at 6000 feet pressure altitude
I punched in full power and turned on the GPS. I did three legs 120
degrees apart and averaged the speeds. At 6000 I was indicating 23
inches of MP and 3800 rpm once stabilized. My average speed was 182
mph. I played with the leaning adjustment we put on the Holly carb and
was able to get 184 mph out of it and an increase of about 50 rpm.
After that, I pulled the power out completely and tried gliding to
determine the best speed for best angle. At 80 mph my decent rate was
900 fpm, at 90 mph it was 1100 fpm and at 100 it was 1300 fpm. All of
these give me about an 8 to 1 glide ratio. The airplane felt real
draggy at 80 (lots of induced drag) with much more sluggish pitch
response than at 90. So if she quits me Ill use 90 to 100. It just
likes to fly better at higher speeds.
I couldnt help myself, I had to do a high speed pass on the Boulder
City Airport. I got into the pattern just as a bunch of my buddies who
work for Lake Mead Air were returning and had landed from the Grand
Canyon. When the coast was clear I turned base at pattern altitude and
dropped the nose until I was indicating about 210 mph about 100 feet
above the ground. Just before I got over the runway threshold I dialed
in 23 inches of MP to pump the noise level up and blew over the airport
at about 225 mph. The Park Service pilot (Bruce Lenin) an old high
school buddy got on the unicom and said, " Is that you Billy, you old
rattle snake?" What in the heck are you powering that little
experimental with, a V-12 with straight pipes?" I laughed and keyed
up, "nopejust a little Chebby truck engine mon.$1500 bucks out of the
crate!" I pulled up at the end of the runway and picked up 1000 feet
before the energy bled to about 100 mph, did a vertical wing over and
went back the other way. The day before I tried a lot of unusual
attitudes to watch the oil pressure variation and basically got no
variation, even at zero g. So I wasnt concerned about this maneuver
close to the ground.
This little airplane actually feels as solid as a fighter and it goes
where you point it. It not only does that real well but Im impressed
with the engine output too. We have a lot of work to do now to really
dial it in and the list is long but we have accomplished our primary
mission and that was to do as well or better than a 160 hp Lycoming.
Ill write more later about the stall series after I explore that in
more depth tomorrow. Got to wear my chute for that one.I might even
roll it if the notion occurs to me.
Bill Phillips
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
14190 47th Ave N.
Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Plew <plew(at)mail.pci.co.zw> |
| Subject: | Choice of props. |
<< RE Props and prices etc.>>
Hey Guys, and Louise in New Zealand,
Thanks a lot for you replies and input regarding choices of props,
specifically should we stay with the feathering CS's or look at fixed. You
have obviously put in a lot of thought and that is much appreciated. We will
let you know how it progresses.
Regards,
Graham and Martin. ( from Brian Plew)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
Fred,
you can write me at orndorffg(at)aol.com or call me at 817-439-3280 . look
forward to hearing from you....Geore Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Re: F611@F612 BULKHEADS |
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 20:56:11 -0500
From: John McMahon <earthlink.net!rv6(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: F611@F612 BULKHEADS
DOES ANYONE REMEMBER DO YOU NOTCH BULKHEADS F611 &F612 FOR
THE STRINGERS BOTTOM SIDE ,OR NOTCH THE STRINGERS ON 611 ,612 POSITIONS.
THANKS
JOHN MCMAHON
John,
I believe that you are supposed to notch the stringers to fit over
these bulkheads. At least, that's my interpretation of the plans, and
how mine is constructed. Oh yeah, Good luck.
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6a working sliding canopy
tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engines & Props-chatter |
<< I've been wondering about using an Ivo Prop on an RV. I can't
>recall ever seeing one. They're cheaper than a traditional cs prop. Any
>one have any experience with Ivos?
> >>
Friends don't let friends fly behind an Ivo.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
(Finnally painting)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
>I liked the suggestion in the AeroElectric Connection, Appendix Z, page
>Z-1, to use DPDT switches with one position spring loaded to center for
>magneto switches; this enables the use of the left magneto switch's
>spring-loaded position to activate the starter. The switch recommended
>was Microswitch p/n 2TL1-5. I'm more than happy to use a less expensive
>equivalent.
>Mike Kukulski
>kukulski(at)highfiber.com
>RV-4 N96MK
Hmmmm . . . got me! Most folk are not aware of the special switching
functions available in what appears to be ordinary toggle switches.
The 2TL1-5 appears to be a two pole, three position switch with
a momentary position at one extreme. What's not obvious from outside
is that the two poles do NOT transfer together. From keyway extreme
to center, on pole transfers; from center to the spring loaded opposite
the OTHER pole transfers. In switch parlance this is coded DPDT ON-ON-(ON).
Lots of mfgrs offer this function but with a catch . . . it's not in high
demand. So, if you want some of these from someone like Carling Switch,
they're not stock and the minimimum line-item order is probably something
on the order of 250 switches! Microswitch (bless their hearts) keeps some
of these in factory stock most of the time and their distributors are only
too happy to get 'em for you . . . at $25 or more a pop!
On of my fondest dreams for the future of AeroElectric Connection as a
supplier of hard to find goodies is to one day be able to afford the
expenditure of cash to meet the minimum quantity of the lower cost switches.
In the mean time . . . check out the Microswitch TN series switches . . .
they're about 15% less expensive.
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========oOOo=(_)=oOOo==========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
Rick,
It flew at Copperstate and looked and sounded very good. Nice clean
install. Van also flew it and stated at his forum that it seemed very nice
but of course he could not compare it to any of the Lyc powered aircraft due
to prop differences, etc... Also of course he could not recommend it due to
the usual concerns about long term reliability.
One concern I would have is weight. Jess Meyers says that the
engine/redrive combo is about 40 pounds heavier than the typical Lyc
(whatever that means) but since the cg is further aft on the engine, the
aircraft cg still falls in line. My little brain says that that is all well
and good, but 40 pounds is still 40 pounds. Chevy does have a set of
aluminum heads that would solve this but they are large port race heads and
would not be appropriate for this rpm range.
I would hold out until the aftermarket comes out with a good replacement
"street head".
MIke Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>I posted a question a couple of weeks ago regarding Belted Air Power
>from Las Vegas and did not get any response... So being stubborn, I'll
>try again.
>
>I would like any input or update on the Chevy Vortec project that Belted
>Air Power is working on. It sounded promising, but still had bugs to
>work out. Any info appreciaited.
>
>--
>Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Priming/Finishing of major Steel Components |
>ozemail.com.au!mcarob(at)matronics.com wrote:
>>
>I shot all my steel stuff with Marhyde. I think some people
>are afraid of using it on steel because it is self etching
>and thus might reduce some of the strength of the part. I'm
>going to use it on my engine mount have used it on rudder
>pedals etc. and am very happy with it
>--
>Chet Razer
>crazer(at)egyptian.net
>
Me too. I first used OSPHOS to neutralize any rust, seen or unseen. Where
it hits on rust pits, a pimple or blister rises, this I sanded down, then
used Marhyde outside and zinc chromate poured into the tubes. Oh yes, after
the Marhyde inside the tubes, I used a gun barrel cleaning process to remove
the pimples caused by Osphos before I put in the z. chrom.
I can't imagine the little bit of 'self etching' as weakening the metal.
But I've been wrong at least once before.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
| Subject: | Re: Just Tape it!! |
I have seen specs on some of the 3M tapes and they look quite impressive. I
would imagine bond strength would be very dependent on surface prep. The
large commercial manufacturers would have the capabilities to do this but
the average homebuilder probably would not.
About a dozen years ago one of the "biggies" in the homebuilt business used
an epoxy to bond aluminum skins to aluminum ribs for a surface finish that
rivaled the Rutan designs that were all the rage at the time. After some
in-flight failures they issued an AD to rivet all these surfaces; not a good
deal for all those customers who had completed wings. At the same time a
number of large aerospace companies were using the same materials quite
successfully.
I would be quite surprised if 3M would actually sell you this product if
they knew you would be using it as a structural adhesive in a homebuilt
airplane.
MIke Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>I spoke with a rep. from a 3M distributor here in the midwest who has
>told me about a product that they sell that replaces rivets. This
>product is a double sided tape and they swear it has the same holding
>strength as a rivet but is actually better because it will not wear
>under side to side (shear) vibration. I was very skeptical, but she
>said my reaction was typical and that this tape is now in use on some
>commercial aircraft. I am not ready to tape my wing leading edges on
>quite yet, but I am intrigued. Has any one lese heard or seen this
>product???
>
>She says she will give me a roll to try next week and a spec sheet. I
>can post the specs if interested.
>
>
>--
>Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Priming/Finishing of major Steel Components |
Rob,
Becki and I use Vari-Prime a paint from Dupont , to clean the surface first
we us Coleman Lantern fuel .Another paint us alot is Sherman Williams Wash
Primer. Both will do a good job , how ever Vari Prime is easyier do to the
fact it is a self ieching primer ....keep in touch....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder/Elevator |
Joe Wiza wrote:
>
> First time on the net, just an observer up to this point. I have to
> situations I'd like to present.
> Just finished the rudder (pre punched) without any smiley's, however
it
> has some oil canning. The trailing edge looks according to plan where the
> stiffners are, however the radius is slightly larger where the stiffners
> are not.
> I believe where I went wrong was when I shapped the trailing edge of
the
> rudder in the brake, I did overbend as suggested but maybe not enough, the
> leading edge of the skin ends were about twice the width of the rudder
> spar. (at the time I thought overbending to much might cause a crack in
> trailing ede even with wood doll in place).
> Proposed solution: Drill out all the spar/rib rivets then brake the
> trailing edge (and maybe insert some smiley's) some more. Any other ideas?
>
> Drawing 4PP dated 1/12/96 shows the inboard stiffners on the right
> elevator 4.5" from the root end of the skin. Is this in error looks like
> 6.5" would place it correctly. Also the stiffners are positioned (Web)
> just the opposite on the bottom of the drawing ref the top depiction I
> elected to go with the top example!!!
>
> Rudder/Elevator sort of
> joe(at)flnet.comJoe,
check the back issues of the RVATOR, the 4.5" is an error. I believe that
the new dimension is 6.25", but check with Van's or the RVATOR dwg. REV.
Ed Cole RV6A #24430 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com |
| Subject: | Rudder/Elevator sort of.. |
What you are seeing is very normal. The stiffeners are positioned as close
as possible to the trailing edge to help avoid cracking. However, the closer
they are to the trailing edge, the more difficult it is to over bend the
trailing edge to get a nice clean edge.
I "solved" this by simply hand seaming the trailing edge carefully. Very
similar to the procedure that Van recommends for a heavy wing. You can
take out those bulges between the stiffeners.
I suggest you send a note to Tom G or call Van's. However, be prepared for
them to tell you it's fine. Under no circumstances would I start drilling
out ANYTHING in that rudder. Personally, I never rebuild a finished part
unless I have a way to make it much better next time. If you start hacking
up your rudder, are you sure you can make it better?
Good luck and let us know how you make out.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Priming/Finishing of major Steel Components |
Hi,
For info on the priming and painting of steel, visit one of the highly
experienced experts right there in your area. Your local body shop.
Hal Kempthorne
halk(at)sybase.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
Hi,
Dave Barnhart wrote (of the Belted Air Power Chevy Vortec V-6 powerplant:
>The Belted Air Power RV-6A was at Copperstate this year. There was an
>informal fly-off between it and the factory RV-6A. Performance between the
>two was pretty evenly matched.
Now if the power isn't enough, you can go soup up the V-6. It could easily put
out 250 hp.
Can you soup up a Lycoming or will it just come from gether??
Hal Kempthorne
halk(at)sybase.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: GPS glideslope? |
The altitude info from GPS is not useable for precision approach
navigation. For that we'll have to wait for precision GPS (WAAS or
whatever it is they're going to use).
The last AOPA Pilot (October or November) had a good article about IFR
GPS including a projected timeline (the first I've seen) for precision
approach GPS and decomissioning of VORs. I doubt they will get
precision GPS up and running in the time projected, or that they will
start decomissioning VORs as soon as they say (10 years per the
article) but even so, reading that article did reinforce my decision
to put off installing Nav radios in my RV until such time as I can
purchase a WAAS capable precision approach GPS. In the meantime I
will just make do with a VFR handheld GPS.
One thing they did say was that a lot of the current IFR GPSs will not
be able to take advantage of WAAS, since the spec isn't even finalized
yet. Some manufacturers claim they will be upgradeable however.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tmoradian(at)aol.com |
I am about to start building my RV-8. I don't have a garage, but am planning
to utilize a carport in my back yard. (at least for the initial stages, the
empanage mainly). In the future I will be either moving or will be building
some sort of garage. The carport is 20' deep and 9' wide. The roof has a
decline which is 8' tall at its highest point and 7' tall at it lowest. The
carport is attached to a guest house, which leaves 3 sides open to the
weather and the elements. I am planning to enlcose the space with bambbo
blinds for some protection. I have talked to a lot of people about this and
there are as many different opionions. I do live in southern California, so
weather is not as much an issue. This carport space will be strictly for
building purposes with alot more room for storgate of tools and finished
parts. I would appreciate if you all could comment on whether I could set up
the jig in this space without any problems, and if anybody has attempted
building the RV outside as i am planning.
My name is Tony Moradian
tmoradian(at)aol.com
310-550-7484
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Just Tape it!! |
I have used the 3M tape on non-aircraft stuff, and would not be
surprised to see it on certified aircraft parts in the future. It
really does hold!
But I am in agreement that I wouldn't want to put myself up as a guinea
pig and use it to hold wing skins on. But I would seriously consider
using it on things like stiffeners if I were building another plane.
Just don't use it on anything you may want to get apart some day! It's
easier to drill out rivets than to pull this stuff apart. One
interesting characteristic of the stuff is that it doesn't seem to stick
all that well at first, but after setting a day or two, it seems to weld
itself to the parts.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.co.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: F611@F612 BULKHEADS |
Text item:
>DOES ANYONE REMEMBER DO YOU NOTCH BULKHEADS F611 &F612 FOR
>THE STRINGERS BOTTOM SIDE ,OR NOTCH THE STRINGERS ON 611 ,612 POSITIONS.
If a stringer (j-channel) goes past a bulkhead you should notch the bulkhead;
if you notch the stringer its stiffness will be lost and the skin will flex
more. Where a stringer ends at a bulkhead, notch the stringer.
FKJ
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Subject: RV-List: F611@F612 BULKHEADS
From: John McMahon <earthlink.net!rv6(at)matronics.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 20:56:11 -0500
ay.jf.intel.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA25771 for | Date: | Oct 21, 1996 |
| From: | Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.co.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS glideslope? Miniature Mitchell Eng. Instrum |
Text item:
>.) I have been noticing that some catalogs have GPS's in them that do vertical
>guidance. How do these units compare in accuracy vertically to a regular
>navigation glideslope receiver ?
Lousy. Typically three times the error vertically than horizontally. Only with
WAAS in a few years will GPS replace an ILS glideslope. An IFR certified GPS
installation only calculates vertical so it can compare it with a feed from your
altitude encoder and insure that RAIM can be satisfied during approaches. The
KLN89B will give you altitude alerting if you want but it uses your encoder
input; the feature is disabled if your encoder is not working.
FKJ
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Subject: RV-List: GPS glideslope? Miniature Mitchell Eng. Instruments
From: Scott Johnson <popmail.mcs.net!rvgasj(at)matronics.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 96 15:01 CDT
ay.jf.intel.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA01020 for | From: | fegg2251(at)uwwvax.uww.edu |
have ordered the tail kit for an rv-6. Am now acquiring tools.
anyone in southern wisconsin or northern IL, or even Indianapolis building that
I could contact??????
vulture
Juda WI.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Insulating Garage Doors |
Hmmm, it looks like I'm going to need a few suggestions. At first, I was
planning to buy the 2" thick foam panels and glue pieces to the door. Then I
got to HomeBase and priced them. I'd need 4 at $26 each. A bit rich. How
has anyone else done this? Stapled fiberglass batting to the door panels?
(My door is 16' wide by 7' tall, in five sections.)
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian McShurley <bmcshurley(at)www.sfgate.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Priming/Finishing of major Steel Components |
chester razer wrote:
>
> ozemail.com.au!mcarob(at)matronics.com wrote:
> >
> > Fellow Builders/RV Pilots,
> >
> > A group of 6/6A builders in Melbourne Australia are approaching the end of
> > the "wing thing" and are psyching up for the Fuselage.
> > We need a little advice from builders who have fitted some of the bigger
> > steel components, such as the Rudder-bars, control columns, Engine mount etc.
> >
> > What type of Primer/Finish have people employed ?
> >
> > Does normal "Red-oxide" type primer suffice or have processes such as Powder
> > Coating or Chrome Electroplating been used on the more visible tube surfaces.
> >
> > Most importantly,
> > (1) would any of the etching processes reduce the strength of these
> > components
> > (2) would any primed or plated surfaces interfere with bearing-block
> > operation as
> > required say in the rudder-bar mounting.
> >
> > We would appreciate your ideas,
> >
> > Rob McAnally and Friends
> > mcarob(at)ozemail.com.au
>
> I shot all my steel stuff with Marhyde. I think some people
> are afraid of using it on steel because it is self etching
> and thus might reduce some of the strength of the part. I'm
> going to use it on my engine mount have used it on rudder
> pedals etc. and am very happy with it
> --
> Chet Razer
> crazer(at)egyptian.net
Be very careful with Chrome plating. If it is done wrong, you can end
up with hydrogen embrittlement, causing cracks in the part. I have used
Powder coating on race car components and chasis, but have found that if
you develop cracks in the part, the plastic portion of the coating
stretches to keep the crack from showing. In short, if you can't see
fatigue cracks, you are flying a broken airplane. Best be safe...
Brian McShurley / bmcshurley(at)sfgate.com / S-51D / N514BM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WstcttPrss(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: building space |
Tony-
I'm building my 6 in an 11' x 16' carpeted, air conditioned office up here at
my printing plant in Altadena. You're welcome to come up and take a look.
Jeff Carpenter
wstcttprss(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ACS Control Cable Ferrule Attach Clamps |
For those of you trying to attach the ACS Control Cable sheaths to the
carburetor or governor brackets, I've got a supply source for you. The
attach clamps are the same ones used for teleflex cables on many ultralights
and other such push/pull transmission cables. Each clamp consists of two
plated steel pieces, a saddle clamp (P/N 7051-1) and a flat shim (P/N
7051-2). Both parts are usually stock items from Airstar at 800-AIR-STAR or
510-516-1186. It's surprising that the clamps are not available from ACS
since they manufacture the cables, but them are the facts.
And just in case your wondering about reliability, they're not made by
Ivoprop and you don't have to prime them with anything ;^)
As long as I have your attention, I've got a Kitfox for sale. If you know
anyone who cares, E-mail me direct. Thanks for your indulgence and I am not
affiliated with any commercial enterprise.
Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: What's Going on? |
So who is this Charles Schell anyway? And why is he cluttering up the
RV-list with a bunch of Deleted Messages?
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Garrett <bgarrett(at)fast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortec RV6-A Engine |
You wrote:
>Dear Bill: Thank you for your mail. Since I'm only the test pilot and
>don't factor in on the money to be made by Jess and Tom, I just simply
>spaced out the RV-list. I appreciate you bringing it to my attention
>and I will post the latest to it along with the newsgroup postings I
>make. Thanks again. I have included a picture or two in jpeg format
>with this email for you to look at.
>
>Best Wishes, Bill Phillips
Thanks for the response. The plane looks great with paint! I'm sure there
will be many who will be happy to hear of your progress on the list.
Best regards,
Bill
Bill Garrett Barb Garrett
RV-6A airplane builder Quilter and Quilt Historian
bgarrett(at)fast.net Pottstown, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Huffaker <huffaker(at)utw.com> |
| Subject: | Re: building space |
On Mon, 21 Oct 1996 aol.com!Tmoradian(at)matronics.com wrote:
> I am about to start building my RV-8. I don't have a garage, but am planning
> to utilize a carport in my back yard. (at least for the initial stages, the
> empanage mainly). In the future I will be either moving or will be building
> some sort of garage. The carport is 20' deep and 9' wide. The roof has a
> decline which is 8' tall at its highest point and 7' tall at it lowest. The
> carport is attached to a guest house, which leaves 3 sides open to the
[snip]
> weather is not as much an issue. This carport space will be strictly for
> building purposes with alot more room for storgate of tools and finished
> parts. I would appreciate if you all could comment on whether I could set up
> the jig in this space without any problems, and if anybody has attempted
> building the RV outside as i am planning.
No problem at all. I have mine up in a 12.5x8 section of my living
room. (<7ft ceiling) Was a little trouble moving the HS around, but not too
much. Have to store finished parts in the bedroom tho (I'm single :) ).
Planning on doing the wings here too. Fuse is gonna havato be built
somewhere else.
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (huffaker(at)utw.com)
President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
AW # 467 Biff Tarkiss
RV-8 80091 Drilling left elev skin to skel.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Turley <daturley(at)tscnet.com> |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBBF92.E4B331E0
----------
From: =
aol.com!Tmoradian(at)matronics.com[SMTP:aol.com!Tmoradian(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Monday, October 21, 1996 10:57 AM
Subject: RV-List: building space=20
I am about to start building my RV-8. I don't have a garage, but am =
planning
to utilize a carport in my back yard. (at least for the initial stages, =
the
empanage mainly). In the future I will be either moving or will be =
building
some sort of garage. The carport is 20' deep and 9' wide. The roof has =
a
decline which is 8' tall at its highest point and 7' tall at it lowest. =
The
carport is attached to a guest house, which leaves 3 sides open to the
weather and the elements. I am planning to enclose the space with =
bamboo
blinds for some protection. I have talked to a lot of people about this =
and
there are as many different opinions. I do live in southern California, =
so
weather is not as much an issue. This carport space will be strictly =
for
building purposes with allot more room for storage of tools and finished
parts. I would appreciate if you all could comment on whether I could =
set up
the jig in this space without any problems, and if anybody has attempted
building the RV outside as I am planning.
My name is Tony Moradian
tmoradian(at)aol.com
310-550-7484
=20
I built my Monnett Moni in Redlands (just outside San Bernardino) during =
the "winter" (such as it is in southern california) underneath the vine =
covered area over our "barbecue" site. This worked fine, I enjoyed the =
fresh air, and with a few (8) four foot florescent light fixtures for =
those balmy evenings! I recommend that anyone who wants to build an =
airplane do it under such conditions! Flowers, beautiful sunsets, the =
sound of birds singing, the perfect symmetry of wing ribs in the evening =
sun . . . .=20
Ah, its the life!! And the Moni only took four months to build! (Just =
thought that I should mention that- sure did help to have the Repair =
Station with all the necessary tools to use when needed and some willing =
A&P friends). Go for it!
Dave
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: GPS glideslope? |
I hve a Garmin GPS Map 195 that has vertical guidance. It is not very
accurate because of the lack of differential GPS corrections. I would not
use it for anything other than a non-precision approach with fairly high
minimum descent altitudes. With a differential GPS signal, the accuracy is
much better.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terence Gannon" <Terence_Gannon(at)msn.com> |
Rick Osgood wrote...
"I spoke with a rep. from a 3M distributor here in the midwest who has told me
about a product that they sell that replaces rivets. This product is a double
sided tape and they swear it has the same holding strength as a rivet but is
actually better because it will not wear under side to side (shear) vibration.
I was very skeptical, but she said my reaction was typical and that this tape
is now in use on some commercial aircraft. I am not ready to tape my wing
leading edges on quite yet, but I am intrigued. Has any one lese heard or
seen this product???"
Given Van's reluctance to endorse innocuous things like alternative engines
(!), I think it could be a while before his signs off on TAPING our planes
together...
:)
Terry in Calgary
("They call me MISTER Empennage")
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: building space |
>I am about to start building my RV-8. I don't have a garage, but am planning
>to utilize a carport in my back yard. (at least for the initial stages, the
>empanage mainly). In the future I will be either moving or will be building
>some sort of garage. The carport is 20' deep and 9' wide. The roof has a
>decline which is 8' tall at its highest point and 7' tall at it lowest.
This is plenty of room. I've built my HS (and will build the rest of the
emp) in my spare room (11' x 9'). Height isn't much of an issue; you only
need about 5 or so feet. You'll need to fix the jig uprights to the roof
beams, so I hope that the structure is good and rigid.
Other considerations:
Rivetting noise and your neighbours.
Are you going to paint your parts? If so, where? Is dust/insects a
problem for you there?
Security; are you going to lock your tools away? Unpacking tools
then packing them away after every session could be a real pain. It'd also
mean that a spare half-hour couldn't really be used productively. I don't
suppose anyone would try to steal a half-finished HS.
>I do live in southern California, so weather is not as much an issue.
[Envious sigh....]
Frank.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Insulating Garage Doors |
from John Lucas: Just bought a sheet of foam for $10.00 (3")...Look in
yellow pages for packing material...Home Depot's prices for that stuff are
not competetive...
>Hmmm, it looks like I'm going to need a few suggestions. At first, I was
>planning to buy the 2" thick foam panels and glue pieces to the door. Then I
>got to HomeBase and priced them. I'd need 4 at $26 each. A bit rich. How
>has anyone else done this? Stapled fiberglass batting to the door panels?
>
>(My door is 16' wide by 7' tall, in five sections.)
>
>
>--
>"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
> scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
> -- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
>"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
clean and prime well and you won't have a problem. You will have to
drain the belly tank of your air compressor daily if you run it outside.
A rusted through tank is a bomb. Also oil your air tools well.
-Mike
>----------
>From: aol.com!Tmoradian(at)matronics.com[SMTP:aol.com!Tmoradian(at)matronics.com]
>Sent: Monday, October 21, 1996 10:57 AM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: building space
>
>I am about to start building my RV-8. I don't have a garage, but am planning
>to utilize a carport in my back yard. (at least for the initial stages, the
>empanage mainly). In the future I will be either moving or will be building
>some sort of garage. The carport is 20' deep and 9' wide. The roof has a
>decline which is 8' tall at its highest point and 7' tall at it lowest. The
>carport is attached to a guest house, which leaves 3 sides open to the
>weather and the elements. I am planning to enlcose the space with bambbo
>blinds for some protection. I have talked to a lot of people about this and
>there are as many different opionions. I do live in southern California, so
>weather is not as much an issue. This carport space will be strictly for
>building purposes with alot more room for storgate of tools and finished
>parts. I would appreciate if you all could comment on whether I could set up
>the jig in this space without any problems, and if anybody has attempted
>building the RV outside as i am planning.
>
>My name is Tony Moradian
>tmoradian(at)aol.com
>310-550-7484
>
>Thanks
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JIM SCHMIDT <JIM.SCHMIDT(at)mail.mei.com> |
| Subject: | Just Tape it!! -Reply |
Yes, I have heard of this tape. I was told about 7 years ago that it was in
use by trailer manufacturers. For use on 18 wheelers to hold the
aluminum side skins to the srtucture instead of rivets or some other
bonding method.
>>> Terence Gannon
10/21/96 11:12pm >>>
Rick Osgood wrote...
"I spoke with a rep. from a 3M distributor here in the midwest who has
told me
about a product that they sell that replaces rivets. This product is a
double
sided tape and they swear it has the same holding strength as a rivet but
is
actually better because it will not wear under side to side (shear)
vibration.
I was very skeptical, but she said my reaction was typical and that this
tape
is now in use on some commercial aircraft. I am not ready to tape my
wing
leading edges on quite yet, but I am intrigued. Has any one lese heard or
seen this product???"
Given Van's reluctance to endorse innocuous things like alternative
engines
(!), I think it could be a while before his signs off on TAPING our planes
together...
:)
Terry in Calgary
("They call me MISTER Empennage")
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: building space |
Brian Huffaker wrote:
>
> On Mon, 21 Oct 1996 aol.com!Tmoradian(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> > I am about to start building my RV-8. I don't have a garage, but am planning
> > to utilize a carport in my back yard. (at least for the initial stages, the
> > empanage mainly). In the future I will be either moving or will be building
> > some sort of garage. The carport is 20' deep and 9' wide. The roof has a
> > decline which is 8' tall at its highest point and 7' tall at it lowest. The
> > carport is attached to a guest house, which leaves 3 sides open to the
> [snip]
> > weather is not as much an issue. This carport space will be strictly for
> > building purposes with alot more room for storgate of tools and finished
> > parts. I would appreciate if you all could comment on whether I could set
up
> > the jig in this space without any problems, and if anybody has attempted
> > building the RV outside as i am planning.
>
> No problem at all. I have mine up in a 12.5x8 section of my living
> room. (<7ft ceiling) Was a little trouble moving the HS around, but not too
> much. Have to store finished parts in the bedroom tho (I'm single :) ).
> Planning on doing the wings here too. Fuse is gonna havato be built
> somewhere else.
>
Brian, you have it much easier than I; I have to share my apartment with
my wife. Fortunately, she's very aircraft tolerant. :)
Tony, for a look at what this kind of setup is like, see my site at
http://ic.net/~patk/rv6a.htm and, if your browser can view frames, go
for the book-style presentation. With careful planning, you can build
anywhere. I seem to recall the RVator mentioning an RV being
constructed aboard an aircraft carrier. Your carport should be fine. I
think I'd want to sheet it off with plastic, though, to keep birds and
spiders from building nests in the structure. It'd also help keep out
the moisture a little (It does rain there occasionally). Good luck with
your project.
PatK - RV-6A - Flaps and aileron being fitted to left wing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engines & Props-chatter |
<<
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop Variable Pitch Prop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder >>
It is a proven fact that Ivoprops come apart on high-horsepower (150 and up)
Lycoming engines. Since your engine is an inline and your continuous hp
out-put is less than 150, I'm sure that the power pulses effect your Ivoprop
differently than that of the Lycommings.
I would strongly suggest that RV-ers NOT use an Ivoprop until the
MANUFACTURER can document that he has developed a design that can withstand
the power pulses of a O-320/360 engine.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
In pieces (again) and painting in two weeks
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 16 Years of the RV-Ator book |
Well folks, I haven't put this on since April and I know there are a lot of
new people on the net. So since I've got a stack of about 300 books sitting
behind me, here goes. My apologies to those who don't like to see the same
message twice.
16 YEARS OF THE RV-ATOR
Authorized by Van's Aircraft
If it only reminds you to drill drain holes in the rudder, it could be worth
10 times the price. 16 Years of the RV-Ator is 300 pages of back issue
RV-ator articles from 1980 - 1995, all accurately and completely reproduced
including photos and drawings, and laid out in the order in which you build.
It is EVERYTHING ever printed about the tail, laid out to follow the manual,
then a chapter on the wings (spar, pre-skin, fuel tanks, skinning, ailerons,
flaps), fuselage, finishing, engine, the panel, etc... There's a chapter on
all those neat tools, one on CG and performance, flying technique, safety
reports and more. In short, if it was in an RV-Ator, it's in here. Easy to
use, at your fingertips. Use it as a builder's reference or for maintenance
and referral. No more searching through stacks of old torn-up, yellowing
newsletters. It's all here. (now with improved referencing and more
accurate chapter layout) $27.95
'94 - '95 UPDATE PAGES
(for the original 14 YEAR books)
1994 and '95 RV-Ator pages insert into your 14 Year book by sub-chapter.
Bring your old book up to date. Set includes about 100 pages, fresh covers
and a larger binder comb. Update pages will be available through 12/96.
$16.00
Order by phone or mail: (mastercard or Visa are fine)
Andy Gold
Easy Publishing
328 Luscombe Dr
Los Lunas, NM 87031
(505) 865-3466
(505) 866-7308 fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net> |
| Subject: | Flap actuator bracket |
A question on flaps for those of you who have been there.
On the flap actuator angle , root rib, etc...
Do all pieces mount along the edge of the spar at an angle caused by the
1/8" trim done on the root end of the spar?
The hinge mounts on the inside of the flap on top of the spar..correct?
Thanks in advance,
Ed Cole RV6A #24430 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mmartin(at)perigee.net (Mitchell Martin) |
To all,
I just finished the RV-6 HS that I've had for over two years. I finally
took the time to start my project. My QB kit should be here in a week or
so. Now, if I can just continue setting aside time, maybe I can finish
it in a year.
p.s. I used dimple dies from ATS on my HS. Need I say more??? It made me
sick! I might just build another HS after I get some time on the RV.
--
Regards, Mitch
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Martin Electronics Co. --- Communications Electronics and Computers
FCC Licenced and NABER Certified Technician ---- Amatuer Radio KA4OBE
mailto:mmartin@perigee.net -------- http://www.perigee.net/~mmartin
Finger mmartin(at)mail.perigee.net for PGP Public Key
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
| Subject: | Re: Engines & Props-chatter |
A further comment for what its worth. David Atkins had his Mazda powered
RV-6 at Copperstate. His departure from Williams to return home was delayed
while he waited for epoxy to cure on one of his prop blades. He has an Ivo 3
blade ground adjustable; I'm not sure how long he has had it or how many
hours are on it. A section of the blade about 6 inches long was delaminated
at the trailing edge starting about 6 - 8 inches from the spinner (looked
like a taco shell from the t.e.). There was no apparent physical damage to
the blade (no scratches, chips, dings, cracks, etc.. which might indicate it
had been struck or pushed on) so I cant explain what might have caused it.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
><<
> Jim Ayers
> LOM M332A Ivoprop Variable Pitch Prop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder >>
>
>It is a proven fact that Ivoprops come apart on high-horsepower (150 and up)
>Lycoming engines. Since your engine is an inline and your continuous hp
>out-put is less than 150, I'm sure that the power pulses effect your Ivoprop
>differently than that of the Lycommings.
>
>I would strongly suggest that RV-ers NOT use an Ivoprop until the
>MANUFACTURER can document that he has developed a design that can withstand
>the power pulses of a O-320/360 engine.
>
>Gary Corde
>RV-6 N211GC
>In pieces (again) and painting in two weeks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap actuator bracket |
On Tue, 22 Oct 1996, Edward Cole wrote:
> A question on flaps for those of you who have been there.
> On the flap actuator angle , root rib, etc...
> Do all pieces mount along the edge of the spar at an angle caused by the
> 1/8" trim done on the root end of the spar?
Yes, they do. Be aware that the 3" long piece made from 2" x 2" angle
(F-604something, I believe) aluminum is not the same for both flaps. The
plans show the left one, and the right one is a mirror image.
> The hinge mounts on the inside of the flap on top of the spar..correct?
Right again. And the hinge loops should be INSIDE the flap, not
protruding into the slipstream (like they were in my quickbuild).
Something to watch out for regarding the piece I mentioned earlier (3"
long, cut from 2" x 2" aluminum angle, F-604 something): The drawings
call for 3 rivets only 5/16" from the edge that will be on the inboard
edge of the flap. I found on my angle that a rivet hole centered only
5/16" from the edge results in a rivet that actually sits in the curve of
the angle. In other words, the rivet head is at an angle to the flat
aluminum. ... AND I couldn't drive the rivet without the rivet gun denting
the angle. The solution (on my second flap) was to move the holes back
away from the edge more than 5/16" of an inch. On the quickbuild you have
to also move the holes closer together to avoid the predrilled (too close
to the edge) holes thru the spar and rib. John at Van's said that was
fine.
_
//|
// |
// |
/(___|________________
----------------------|
| x x | x = hole location per plans
| o | o = my location (vertical
| | offset only required because
| x | of predrilled quickbuild holes
| xo x | in spar and rib)
| |
| |
| x |
| o <-- my alternate location
| x <-- 5/16" from edge (too close)
|_____________________|
> Thanks in advance,
> Ed Cole RV6A #24430 Wings
>
I'm moving to a new duty location tomorrow. I'll be using TimRV6A(at)aol.com
for my RV account now.
Tim
-------------------------------
Capt Tim Lewis
Kelly AFB, TX 210-442-4237
CapnTim(at)aol.com
COML ASEL IA
RV-6AQ #60023
________________________________________________________________________________
<< It is a proven fact that Ivoprops come apart on high-horsepower (150 and
up)
Lycoming engines. Since your engine is an inline and your continuous hp
out-put is less than 150, I'm sure that the power pulses effect your Ivoprop
differently than that of the Lycommings.>>
It is the four cylinder four cycle engine that causes impulse loading
problems for any type of prop. A long crankshaft (like on an in-line four
with 35"mp for takeoff), or a long prop extension (like the 8" long extension
used on the Velocity), aggravaties the impulse loading.
This was determined by Ivoprop Magnum prop owners complying with the "Service
Letter" sent out by Ivo.
The fastest airboat in Florida is using a Ivoprop 6 bladed prop on its 600 hp
engine. There is a three bladed Ivoprop running on a Lyc. O-720 400 hp
engine.
Horsepower isn't the problem. But the engines just mentioned are eight
cylinder engines, not four cylinder engines.
<< I would strongly suggest that RV-ers NOT use an Ivoprop until the
MANUFACTURER can document that he has developed a design that can withstand
the power pulses of a O-320/360 engine. >>
I said it recently, and I'll say it again. What was said about Ivoprop's
Magnum prop before, doesn't apply to what he is building now.
Specifically, pay attention to the Velocity people. They are presently
running the Ivoprop Magnum electric flight adjustable prop on their Lyc.
IO-360 200 hp engines with 8" prop extensions.
They are flying two props of the latest configuration, and have just ordered
another prop. They like the total performance increase they are getting with
the electric flight adjustable Ivoprop.
<< Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
In pieces (again) and painting in two weeks >>
If Tom Edison had this kind of product publicity when he was developing the
electric light bulb, we wouldn't have a light too turn on in the evening so
we could find the computer "on" switch. :-)
Sorry about the soap box.
Recent History.
In Dec. 1995, I had one of the three engines in the USA that demonstrated a
problem using the Ivoprop Magnum prop in complying with the "Service
Bulletin". My RV-3 already had the electric system installed, and Southern
California was just about the only place in the US that was warm enough to
fly regularly. I was provided the prototype Ivoprop electric flight
adjustable prop with a manufacturer requirement to inspect the prop blades
ever ONE HOUR OF FLIGHT.
I didn't get very much flying time on my aircraft. 70 hrs of flying time for
the year, and significantly more disassembly/inspection/assembly time.
The improvement to my present "old design" prop blades has removed my engine
from the critical list of problem engine configurations.
The Lyc. IO-360 200 hp with the 8" prop extensions on the Velocity aircraft
WERE the last on the critical engine list.
With the latest prop assembly configuration on the Velocity aircraft, their
engine operates to the requirements of Ivo's service letter.
I feel we can all take a little time to see what success the Velocity company
has with the Ivoprop Magnum electric flight adjustable prop.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A Warnke Prop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder (getting flight comparison
data)
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Empeage flange strips |
| From: | Brian Yablon <brian(at)lanart.com> |
Alan Carrol wrote:
>"smooth edges and surfaces to satin finish equivalent to 400 grit" and
>remove all cutting and milling marks. On my pieces there are also various
>small scratches and some minor pitting; do these surfaces need to be
>PERFECTLY smooth, or can minor imperfections be tolerated? I don't want
to
>remove more material than necessary.
I had the exact same question when I did my HS-609 strips. After
talking to a few builders and a mechanic, I came up with the following
answer:
Spend more time making something smooth if it is an important
structural member. Surface pits and small scratches are generally not
of concern provided they are 'smooth' pits, and not 'sharp' pits. (That
is why Van's cautions against using scribes and engraving tools to
mark parts for identification; they generally leave sharp marks. But
using a drift punch whose end was rounded off would be fine for light
marking.) The rule of thumb seems to be that if the scratch catches
your finger nail, it should be removed.
Scratches and marks near the edges of strip are critical and must must
be removed, since they are more apt to generate cracks under strain.
For cleaning up edges, I use a ScotchBrite unitized wheel (7AM) on my
bench grinder. For removing marks from surfaces, I use Scotchbrite
abrasive pads in a Roloc fixture on my die grinder (available from
Avery's under the name 'surface conditioning kit'). The pads come in
maroon (general use), blue (fine) and grey (very fine). I find that
maroon pads are pretty aggressive, and will remove scratches quickly
with light pressure--press too hard, and you will introduce new
scratches. I follow the maroon pad with a blue pad treatment. I
finish the job by wiping a few times with a grey hand pad, and this
gets things to Van's vaunted "400-grit" satin finish.
There seemed to be some disagreement about the importance of extrusion
marks on the bar stock. If you look at the HS-609 strips, you see
fine marks that run the length of the stock. Some say they are of no
consequence, but some other builders take them off. Since it only
takes a few minutes, I buff them out.
Hope this helps.
-Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com
Framingham, MA
RV6A #24751
Rudder and elevators in process...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil> |
remove
-------------------------------
Capt Tim Lewis
Kelly AFB, TX 210-442-4237
lewis2(at)mailcenter.cmet.af.mil
or capntim(at)aol.com
COML ASEL IA
RV-6AQ #60023
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino) |
Is anyone else not getting replies from Van's via e-mail. When ever I had a
non critical question, I just e-mailed, and in a day or two received a
reply. For the last month or so, I e-mailed at least three times and never
received a reply.
Jim Cimino
rv-8 sn 80039
waiting for my wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Phillips <billphil(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | The Old Men's Airplane building Project |
A very nice fellow named Greg Travis offered to put our pictures on his
web-site. So, if you want to see the RV-6a with the Chevy Vortec V-6
engine in the hangar and at Copperstate, go to his page and get into his
Gallery. Look for the page on the OMABP.
http://gtravis.ucs.indiana.edu/Engines
If you have trouble doing that, contact me through the email and I'll
send you some in the jpeg format.
Bill Phillips
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
Well, I FINALLY got to fly in an RV. My 6A is about 2 weeks from completion
and I went to Portland to take some time with Mike Seager.
My thanks to all who e-mailed me, but time constraints only allowed us to
visit with one "lister". Special thanks to Jerry Springer who generously
provided wy wife and I with a very extensive flight. Wow! For everyone
that's building and wondering if it's all worth it - trust me, it is. Jerry
also spent most of his day showing us around the airport and all of the RV's,
and a really nice airplane made out of that "other" material. Hillsboro is a
really fun place to spend the day. Thanks again Jerry.
I was able to fly "bigfoot" (gads those wheels look funny) with Mike on
Monday, and got a taste of the 180 with a C/S prop. Whew. The airplanes
were FAR more stable and less "twichy" than I thought they would be. They go
where you point them, and they GO when you point them. I was amazed at how
effortless they feel at speed. You really get used to the speed though - I
think I'm spoiled for anything else.
My question is: is anyone on the list an EAA flight advisor? There isn't
one in my local chapter, and I'd like to hook up with someone so I can get my
"baby" insured for the first flight.
Head in the clouds,
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's e-mail |
Me too
>Is anyone else not getting replies from Van's via e-mail. When ever I had a
>non critical question, I just e-mailed, and in a day or two received a
>reply. For the last month or so, I e-mailed at least three times and never
>received a reply.
>
>Jim Cimino
>rv-8 sn 80039
>waiting for my wing
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PhilipR920(at)aol.com |
Jim:
Same problem. No reply to message last week. I called and confirmed that they
had received mail.
Phil Rogerson
philr920(at)aol.com
6AQ 60057
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: Van's e-mail |
Jim Cimino wrote:
>Is anyone else not getting replies from Van's via e-mail. When ever I had a
>non critical question, I just e-mailed, and in a day or two received a
>reply. For the last month or so, I e-mailed at least three times and never
>received a reply.
As of 10/10/96, Tom at Van's was still handling email as usual.
BEst Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
Fitting the sliding canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's e-mail |
Jim Cimino wrote:
>
> Is anyone else not getting replies from Van's via e-mail. When ever I had a
> non critical question, I just e-mailed, and in a day or two received a
> reply. For the last month or so, I e-mailed at least three times and never
> received a reply.
>
> Jim Cimino
> rv-8 sn 80039
> waiting for my wing
Yeah Jim... I e-mailed Van's to place an order and to ask a question. I
got no answer either.
--
Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg) |
| Subject: | Re: Flight advisor? |
>Well, I FINALLY got to fly in an RV. My 6A is about 2 weeks from completion
>and I went to Portland to take some time with Mike Seager.
>
>My thanks to all who e-mailed me, but time constraints only allowed us to
>visit with one "lister". Special thanks to Jerry Springer who generously
>provided wy wife and I with a very extensive flight. Wow! For everyone
>that's building and wondering if it's all worth it - trust me, it is. Jerry
>also spent most of his day showing us around the airport and all of the RV's,
>and a really nice airplane made out of that "other" material. Hillsboro is a
>really fun place to spend the day. Thanks again Jerry.
>
>I was able to fly "bigfoot" (gads those wheels look funny) with Mike on
>Monday, and got a taste of the 180 with a C/S prop. Whew. The airplanes
>were FAR more stable and less "twichy" than I thought they would be. They go
>where you point them, and they GO when you point them. I was amazed at how
>effortless they feel at speed. You really get used to the speed though - I
>think I'm spoiled for anything else.
>
>My question is: is anyone on the list an EAA flight advisor? There isn't
>one in my local chapter, and I'd like to hook up with someone so I can get my
>"baby" insured for the first flight.
>
>Head in the clouds,
>Ed Bundy
>ebundy2620(at)aol.com
Ed
Glad you got the first flight and the RV grin.
Larry Vetterman is a EAA flight advisor/CFII 303 932-0561 also he makes
the Best exhausts for a RV available. I know I've helped to make them.
His major problem is time. He's also mgr for the USDA's crop damage control
Air Force in the Western US.
Doug
Doug Bloomberg
Denver, CO
dougb(at)mail.diac.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg) |
| Subject: | Re: Insulating Garage Doors |
>Hmmm, it looks like I'm going to need a few suggestions. At first, I was
>planning to buy the 2" thick foam panels and glue pieces to the door. Then I
>got to HomeBase and priced them. I'd need 4 at $26 each. A bit rich. How
>has anyone else done this? Stapled fiberglass batting to the door panels?
>
>(My door is 16' wide by 7' tall, in five sections.)
>
>
>--
Howdy,
I live in Denver and when I insulated the garage I used 1" aluminum coated
foam. It had a aluminum foil on both sides. One side printed the
manufactures name and the other side just shiney aluminum. From my reading
the shiney alum reflects 90% of the radiant energy back. I had wooden
panels so I cut to size, for each panel and then put nails at the 4 corners
and used wire in a X across the foam.
My new shop has different style door, I will still use the 1" foam but I
have space to either put fiberglas or loose insulation between the door and
foam.
The first case the temps got below -20 and it stayed warm inside. Also
worked well in the summer keeping it cool. BTW I bought my foam at a place
that sold sheets that were seconds, I paid 4.50 each for a 4x9 sheet! I
will see about the new door this winter.
Doug
Doug Bloomberg
Denver, CO
dougb(at)mail.diac.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | IELHAI(at)gnn.com (Irving Elhai) |
| Subject: | Re: Van's e-mail |
I have sent about three or four tech questions to Van and received a
prompt and to the point response at all times, even on the same day and
never later than the next. Tom has been very efficient with E-Mail.
Irv Elhai
IELHAI(at)gnn.com
RV-8 80110
HS about finished, VS almost
>From: jcimino.microserve.com!jcimino(at)matronics.com (Jim Cimino)
>Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Van's e-mail
>
>Is anyone else not getting replies from Van's via e-mail. When ever
> I had a
>non critical question, I just e-mailed, and in a day or two received
> a
>reply. For the last month or so, I e-mailed at least three times
> and never
>received a reply.
>
>Jim Cimino
>rv-8 sn 80039
>waiting for my wing
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Primer, Primer... ad nauseum |
It seems that a number of us who have jumped on this list fairly
recently missed a lot of exciting dialog concerning PRIMER!
For you other newer members, I've found that the list archives are full
of all kinds of info, and I've made it my personal policy to check them
before asking any (more) questions.
Scott
N4ZW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight advisor? |
aol.com!EBundy2620(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Well, I FINALLY got to fly in an RV. My 6A is about 2 weeks from completion
> and I went to Portland to take some time with Mike Seager.
>
> My thanks to all who e-mailed me, but time constraints only allowed us to
> visit with one "lister". Special thanks to Jerry Springer who generously
> provided wy wife and I with a very extensive flight. Wow! For everyone
> that's building and wondering if it's all worth it - trust me, it is. Jerry
> also spent most of his day showing us around the airport and all of the RV's,
> and a really nice airplane made out of that "other" material. Hillsboro is a
> really fun place to spend the day. Thanks again Jerry.
>
> I was able to fly "bigfoot" (gads those wheels look funny) with Mike on
> Monday, and got a taste of the 180 with a C/S prop. Whew. The airplanes
> were FAR more stable and less "twichy" than I thought they would be. They go
> where you point them, and they GO when you point them. I was amazed at how
> effortless they feel at speed. You really get used to the speed though - I
> think I'm spoiled for anything else.
>
> My question is: is anyone on the list an EAA flight advisor? There isn't
> one in my local chapter, and I'd like to hook up with someone so I can get my
> "baby" insured for the first flight.
>
> Head in the clouds,
> Ed Bundy
> ebundy2620(at)aol.com
Ed
Nice to have met you and your wife, glad that you and her enjoyed the
flight in my RV-6. After flying in my -6 and then flying with Mike in
the -6A you should now be qualified to comment on the age old
taildragger vs nosedragger debate. (JUST KIDDING).
Have a safe and enjoyable first flight.
Jerry
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight advisor? |
aol.com!EBundy2620(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Well, I FINALLY got to fly in an RV. My 6A is about 2 weeks from completion
> and I went to Portland to take some time with Mike Seager.
>
> My thanks to all who e-mailed me, but time constraints only allowed us to
> visit with one "lister". Special thanks to Jerry Springer who generously
> provided wy wife and I with a very extensive flight. Wow! For everyone
> that's building and wondering if it's all worth it - trust me, it is. Jerry
> also spent most of his day showing us around the airport and all of the RV's,
> and a really nice airplane made out of that "other" material. Hillsboro is a
> really fun place to spend the day. Thanks again Jerry.
>
> I was able to fly "bigfoot" (gads those wheels look funny) with Mike on
> Monday, and got a taste of the 180 with a C/S prop. Whew. The airplanes
> were FAR more stable and less "twichy" than I thought they would be. They go
> where you point them, and they GO when you point them. I was amazed at how
> effortless they feel at speed. You really get used to the speed though - I
> think I'm spoiled for anything else.
>
> My question is: is anyone on the list an EAA flight advisor? There isn't
> one in my local chapter, and I'd like to hook up with someone so I can get my
> "baby" insured for the first flight.
>
> Head in the clouds,
> Ed Bundy
> ebundy2620(at)aol.com
Ed
Nice to have met you and your wife, glad that you and her enjoyed the
flight in my RV-6. After flying in my -6 and then flying with Mike in
the -6A you should now be qualified to comment on the age old
taildragger vs nosedragger debate. (JUST KIDDING).
Have a safe and enjoyable first flight.
Jerry
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Hollendorfer <phredyh(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Mitchell Martin wrote:
>
> To all,
>
> I just finished the RV-6 HS that I've had for over two years. I finally
> took the time to start my project. My QB kit should be here in a week or
> so. Now, if I can just continue setting aside time, maybe I can finish
> it in a year.
>
> p.s. I used dimple dies from ATS on my HS. Need I say more??? It made me
> sick! I might just build another HS after I get some time on the RV.
>
> --
>
> Regards, Mitch
>
Mitch,
Please forgive me if I seem uninformed. Is the ATS dimple die set NOT
a good set to use? I have not yet started my RV-8 project... I'm
shooting for a next spring start, so I'm trying to glean as much as
I can from the RV list before I begin. Thanx ...Fred>
--
FC Hollendorfer
RV-8 Garage & Tools
Denver, CO
phredyh(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
You wrote:
>Mitch,
>
>Please forgive me if I seem uninformed. Is the ATS dimple die set NOT
>a good set to use? I have not yet started my RV-8 project... I'm
>shooting for a next spring start, so I'm trying to glean as much as
>I can from the RV list before I begin. Thanx ...Fred>
>
>FC Hollendorfer
>
>RV-8 Garage & Tools
>
>Denver, CO
>
>phredyh(at)ix.netcom.com
>
Dear FC,
You will dimple about 10,000 to 12,000 times on your aircraft. Most
of us think it pays to get the best and that means Cleaveland or
Avery. Make sense? (I have Cleaveland.)
Best regards,
Bill Costello
bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
<326DA6BF.5E45(at)ix.netcom.com>
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Anybody that uses ATS tools will look back on his/her work later and SEE
the difference between superior tools (Avery, Cleveland, etc) and
inferior (ATS) tool quality results.
ATS TOOLS ARE JUNK......
I know, because I bought their "RV Builders Kit" for $990.00 when I
started my RV-6A. I had to replace just about everything whem I learned
what constitutes good quality tools.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>Please forgive me if I seem uninformed. Is the ATS dimple die set NOT
>a good set to use? I have not yet started my RV-8 project... I'm
>shooting for a next spring start, so I'm trying to glean as much as
>I can from the RV list before I begin. Thanx ...Fred>
>
>FC Hollendorfer
>
>RV-8 Garage & Tools
>
>Denver, CO
>
>phredyh(at)ix.netcom.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Van's e-mail |
All on RV-LIST. When I need help I Email Tom Green and have always gotten a
prompt answer. Bruce Bell RV-4 #2888 rv4bell(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan Carroll <carroll(at)geology.wisc.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's e-mail |
>Is anyone else not getting replies from Van's via e-mail. When ever I had a
>non critical question, I just e-mailed, and in a day or two received a
>reply. For the last month or so, I e-mailed at least three times and never
>received a reply.
>
>Jim Cimino
>rv-8 sn 80039
>waiting for my wing
I emailed a question last week and got a response from Tom early this week
- short but to the point.
Alan Carroll
RV-8 #80177 (Empenage)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com |
| Subject: | Re: Van's e-mail |
Maybe Tom is getting overwhelmed with E-mail and is doing a triage thing
( answer the easy ones quick and work on the hard ones ). I sent him a
simple question yesterday from my Compuserve account and had an answer in
about 30 minutes.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com |
Jim,
With all due respect, I think you missed Gary's point. We are not interested
in pre-Magnum, post-Magnum or anyting else. Let IVO put a prop on an O-320
and rack up 200 hours with his ass ( or a willing participant ) in the seat.
When he does this ( at least!) and documents it, then AND ONLY THEN should he
be selling props for use on this engine. If the "Velocity people" want to
experiment with props that's fine. If Ivo wants to experiment with props
that's also fine. But if Ivo wants to sell the prop to customers for money
telling them it will work on their engine, then there should be some basis
for that statement.
John
P.S. I went to Barnes&Noble yesterday and asked if they had
"Drag reduction techniques for the RV builder " by Jim Ayers. They
said it's not out yet. Will this be coming soon .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael A. Pilla" <pilla(at)exit109.com> |
| Subject: | Info Needed on Woodward Governors |
Well, I just returned from doing a supervised overhaul of my O-320-E2D
engine (and converting it into a -D1A, in the process). Took from 8:30am
until 4:30pm, but I now have the engine I want for a good price.
I also ordered a new C/S prop (choke!) from Van's and am now trying to
decide what to do about the governor. Van's wants $1,250 for a new
Woodward 210076 prop governor. The engine chap who supervised the
overhaul gave me an unknown condition (hey, the price was right :-)
Woodward 210080 prop governor.
Does anyone know the difference? I called the Van's hot line this
morning and they admitted that they don't know, inexact science, etc.
They suggested I contact Woodward for advice. I went to Woodward's
web page, but they are very weak/light on aircraft stuff (they have
tons of locomotive, off-highway (but, not aircraft), ...stuff). I have
a call in to Woodward's customer service number, but figure I would rather
get some info from folks who have probably been there before, done that, ...
Thanks.
Mike Pilla
RV-4, #2866, still working on canopy, but working on engine stuff, too :-)
Michael Pilla
pilla(at)exit109.com
v: (908) 566-7604
f: (908) 566-7936
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
> Please forgive me if I seem uninformed. Is the ATS dimple die set NOT
> a good set to use? I have not yet started my RV-8 project... I'm
> shooting for a next spring start, so I'm trying to glean as much as
> I can from the RV list before I begin. Thanx ...Fred
>From the rv-list FAQ (Tool Vendors section):
> ATS ** Not Recommended **
> Aircraft Tool Supply Co.
> P. O. Box 370
> 1000 Old US-23
> Oscoda, Michigan 48750
> (800) 248-0638 Free
> Tools (Not recommended due to poor quality of tools ie. riveter and Clecos)
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michelle Schneider <sales(at)mcdcue.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's e-mail |
cpeedy.ENET.dec.com!walsh(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Maybe Tom is getting overwhelmed with E-mail and is doing a triage thing
> ( answer the easy ones quick and work on the hard ones ). I sent him a
> simple question yesterday from my Compuserve account and had an answer in
> about 30 minutes.
>
> John
wrong address
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mmartin(at)perigee.net (Mitchell Martin) |
Fred Hollendorfer wrote:
>
> Mitchell Martin wrote:
> >
> > To all,
> >
> > I just finished the RV-6 HS that I've had for over two years. I finally
> > took the time to start my project. My QB kit should be here in a week or
> > so. Now, if I can just continue setting aside time, maybe I can finish
> > it in a year.
> >
> > p.s. I used dimple dies from ATS on my HS. Need I say more??? It made me
> > sick! I might just build another HS after I get some time on the RV.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Regards, Mitch
> >
> Mitch,
>
> Please forgive me if I seem uninformed. Is the ATS dimple die set NOT
> a good set to use? I have not yet started my RV-8 project... I'm
> shooting for a next spring start, so I'm trying to glean as much as
> I can from the RV list before I begin. Thanx ...Fred>
>
>
> --
>
> FC Hollendorfer
>
Fred, I bought my tools about three years ago and wasn't aware of Avery
tools at that time. I built the HS during the past three weeks without
seeking advice from other builders. Believe me, from now on I will read
this newsgroup and ask lots of questions. There's no sense in we
beginners making the same mistakes when we have the combined experience
of all the good folks on the RV-List and at Van's.
BTW, the flush rivets don't seat well in the ATS dimples and the dies
leave too large of a depression around the dimple. Needless to say, I
have Avery's on order.
--
Regards, Mitch
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Martin Electronics Co. --- Communications Electronics and Computers
FCC Licenced and NABER Certified Technician ---- Amatuer Radio KA4OBE
mailto:mmartin@perigee.net -------- http://www.perigee.net/~mmartin
Finger mmartin(at)mail.perigee.net for PGP Public Key
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Greening <jsg(at)sierra.net> |
I am new to the group and curious if there are any builders listening in
the Chico, CA area?
Jeff Greening
jsg(at)sunset.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jcimino(at)jcimino.microserve.com (Jim Cimino) |
| Subject: | Van's e-mail summary |
To all who responded:
It seems that about 50% have had some problems with responses lately. I
too have usually received prompt responses from Tom. I asked Tom about it
and he said that he responds promptly but thing such as airshows, ect. some
time interfere. He feels that now with the end of the season, we should all
get quick responses for the winter.
Thanks,
Jim Cimino
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WstcttPrss(at)aol.com |
get your dimple dies from Avery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's e-mail |
>All on RV-LIST. When I need help I Email Tom Green and have always gotten a
>prompt answer. Bruce Bell RV-4 #2888 rv4bell(at)aol.com
>
Me too...always. Tom's great to work with.
Rob Acker
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q #60010 / N164RA reserved
(r.acker@ix.netcom.com or http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Info Needed on Woodward Governors |
>SNIP
Van's wants $1,250 for a new
>Woodward 210076 prop governor. The engine chap who supervised the
>overhaul gave me an unknown condition (hey, the price was right :-)
>Woodward 210080 prop governor.
>
>Does anyone know the difference? I called the Van's hot line this
>morning and they admitted that they don't know, inexact science, etc.
>They suggested I contact Woodward for advice. I went to Woodward's
>web page, but they are very weak/light on aircraft stuff (they have
>tons of locomotive, off-highway (but, not aircraft), ...stuff). I have
>a call in to Woodward's customer service number, but figure I would rather
>get some info from folks who have probably been there before, done that, ...
>
>Thanks.
>
>Mike Pilla
>
Mike
Back when I was looking for help on a problem (Turned out it wasn't the
governor) I found a guy at Woodward by the name of John Blee.
He was very helpful. His number 815-624-2499 Woodward/Small Aircraft
Controls in Rockford, Il.
If he's still there I'll bet he can help.
Regards
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin lane <kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com> |
I never followed what happened with that survey (bogus/not?) and kind of
laughed when some paranoid responses came up, HOWEVER, yesterday I was
"spanned" with a 2350K e-mail message from some Richard Chandler
consisting of obscene animal cartoon images. It took 20 minutes @ 28K to
download and was blocking all the RV-list E-mail which followed. I have
no idea where this stuff came from, but I use the internet for the
RV-list pretty much exclusively and have not left my address alsewhere to
my knowledge. I have noticed occasionally some peoples messages are
appended with some quotes about painting the ceiling, I forget, and some
other pseudo-philosophical crap. I've seen the exact same quotes several
times but have no idea where they originated. Has anyone else seen this
or experienced problems? I discovered I can limit the size of E-mail
messages so set that, which was unlimited before. I plan to see if there
are more problems before I go changing my name. If someone is messing
with RV-List then I assume even that would do no good.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Poessel <frankpoe(at)intertex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's e-mail |
cpeedy.ENET.dec.com!walsh(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Maybe Tom is getting overwhelmed with E-mail and is doing a triage thing
> ( answer the easy ones quick and work on the hard ones ). I sent him a
> simple question yesterday from my Compuserve account and had an answer in
> about 30 minutes.
>
> John
I spoke with Tom at the Southwest Regional Fly-in in Kerville, Texas
Saturday. I believe he left Oregon Thursday morning and he probably got
back home Monday. That could be part of the delay.
Frank Poessel
frankpoe(at)intertex.net
Workshop cleaned out, Tools hanging on the wall and waiting on
Empenage Kit to be delivered.
I got a demo flight in The RV-8 This past saturday. I just can't get this
grin off of my face.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: strange e-mail |
What happened was limited to the pdx-rv list.
The short form is, I was hacked. I could get more technical about it if you
really care, but I was not the source of that mail.
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
I'm an EAA Tech Counselor and I've got a question for the List. I just
visited a Merlin GT-914 project. The Merlin is a high wing tail dragger
with a high lift wing; the stall can be in the 30-40 mph range.
The builder wants to equip his aircraft with IFR instruments so as to be
able to pop up through the 400 foot fog layer we often have around the
Seattle area. He'll need a heated pitot for this. Is there an inexpensive
way of doing this?
TIA
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Props-chatter |
The following is a re-print of an article that appeared in my newsletter. It
relates to Ivo Prop and backs up what Jim Ayers has been saying.
"Beware Ivo Prop!!!
If you are considering an IVOPROP, you may want to reconsider. I got a call
from Bob Truder who lives in Minnesota who called to tell me that there have
been a rash of blade failures on the IVOPROPS. His failure was on the way to
Oshkosh and resulted in the destruction of his aircraft when he was forced to
land in a forested area. His plane had a Subaru engine and the prop had a
total four hours running time when it threw a blade. He says that there have
been numerous injuries and a couple of fatalities as a result of the blade
failures. The failure mode is in the area of the bolts. He says that the
people at IVOPROP deny that there have been any failures and are lying to
people when they ask if there have been any problems with the prop. He
quotes them as saying that there is always the possibility of a crash of
experimental planes, but they deny that their props have been the cause of
any crashes. The aviation community does not need any company that has a
problem and refuses to acknowledge it. If you have an IVOPROP, you may want
to inspect your prop very carefully each time before you fly. Then again,
you may want to change props before putting your life on the line by flying
with a potentially dangerous prop."
Jim Cone, Editor
Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing Newsletter
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: strange e-mail |
kevin lane wrote:
>
> I never followed what happened with that survey (bogus/not?) and kind of
> laughed when some paranoid responses came up, HOWEVER, yesterday I was
> "spanned" with a 2350K e-mail message from some Richard Chandler
> consisting of obscene animal cartoon images. It took 20 minutes @ 28K to
> download and was blocking all the RV-list E-mail which followed. I have
> no idea where this stuff came from, but I use the internet for the
> RV-list pretty much exclusively and have not left my address alsewhere to
> my knowledge. I have noticed occasionally some peoples messages are
> appended with some quotes about painting the ceiling, I forget, and some
> other pseudo-philosophical crap. I've seen the exact same quotes several
> times but have no idea where they originated. Has anyone else seen this
> or experienced problems? I discovered I can limit the size of E-mail
> messages so set that, which was unlimited before. I plan to see if there
> are more problems before I go changing my name. If someone is messing
> with RV-List then I assume even that would do no good.
Kevin
Are you on the pdx rv-list that Randall was operating? I got the same
post that you did and was not a happy camper, I thought that it was
only through the pdx rv-list that Randall has now shut down
because of this. I wish the real RICHARD CHANDLER WOULD SPEAK UP AND
EXPLAIN. It took so long to download I thought my computer had locked
up.
BTW I was one of the people that questioned the validity of the RV
survey and did get private e-mail from the person doing the
survey and it is a legitimate survey (I know one the people that did
the survey, they ask not to be identifed at this time) and maybe it
should get us a good web page for Van's (hopefully)
PS did you get a RV ride yet?
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jerryflyrv(at)village.yvv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey D. Blackman" <jeffreyb(at)spiritone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: strange e-mail |
Kevin......Like you I also was upset to get that rather large
e-mail of obscene animal cartoons. I had to wait for that file
before getting the rest of my messages.....hope it ends immediately
so I can continue listening to the RV experts on the list.
I also want to say thanks to Kevin Lane for inviting me over to
help on his RV-6A project. It was quite an eye-opener to see a
project up close.
I would also like to say thanks to others including Randall
Henderson who invited me out to see thier RV projects. After
seeing Kevin Lane's I think I saw enough to 'hook' me.
Thanks all.....and happy RV building!!
Jeff Blackman
>I never followed what happened with that survey (bogus/not?) and kind of
>laughed when some paranoid responses came up, HOWEVER, yesterday I was
>"spanned" with a 2350K e-mail message from some Richard Chandler
>consisting of obscene animal cartoon images. It took 20 minutes @ 28K to
>download and was blocking all the RV-list E-mail which followed. I have
>no idea where this stuff came from, but I use the internet for the
>RV-list pretty much exclusively and have not left my address alsewhere to
>my knowledge. I have noticed occasionally some peoples messages are
>appended with some quotes about painting the ceiling, I forget, and some
>other pseudo-philosophical crap. I've seen the exact same quotes several
>times but have no idea where they originated. Has anyone else seen this
>or experienced problems? I discovered I can limit the size of E-mail
>messages so set that, which was unlimited before. I plan to see if there
>are more problems before I go changing my name. If someone is messing
>with RV-List then I assume even that would do no good.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kennett(at)direct.ca (robert kennett) |
| Subject: | Canadian Tool Suppliers |
I'm planning to order a 6A empennage kit later this fall or early next year.
At this point I'm still researching requirements for riveting and other
specialized tools (I already have the compressor, drill press, etc). Has
anyone had any experience with locating tools in Canada? I've been
following the discussions with respect to Avery and understand they are the
best, but would prefer to buy locally if suitable quality can be found. I
noticed that Murphy Aviation in Chilliwack appears to have some of the tools
available, presumably for use in building their kits. Has anyone had
experience with these? Any information would be appreciated.
Rob Kennett
Kelowna, B.C. (kennett(at)direct.ca)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jsfrv6(at)datastar.net (James S. Frierson) |
unsubsrcibe jsfrv6(at)datastar.net
--
Thanks
JSFRV6
--
Thanks
JSFRV6
________________________________________________________________________________
<< Jim,
With all due respect, I think you missed Gary's point. We are not interested
in pre-Magnum, post-Magnum or anything else. Let IVO put a prop on an O-320
and rack up 200 hours with his ass ( or a willing participant ) in the
seat.>>
Intersting criteria. The FAA only requires 100 hours for certification. It
is slowly occuring to me that there may be a bias towards Ivoprop. :-)
<< When he does this ( at least!) and documents it, then AND ONLY THEN should
he be selling props for use on this engine. If the "Velocity people" want to
experiment with props that's fine. If Ivo wants to experiment with props
that's also fine. But if Ivo wants to sell the prop to customers for money
telling them it will work on their engine, then there should be some basis
for that statement.
John>>
Hello John,
Your message is very confusing to me. Ivo has already, to use your words,
"put his ass in the seat". He does that with the Lyc. O-320 in his airplane,
BEFORE ANYONE ELSE EVER gets a chance to fly his prop design.
He also tested the validity of his service letter on the original Magnum
blades, before it was sent out to his Magnum prop customers, by FLYING
PREVIOUSLY DAMAGED BLADES on his Lyc. O-320. The stainless steel tape
breaks, when a problem starts to develop. And before a problem develops to a
pilot noticable level.
The Velocity manufacturer's are using the Lyc. IO-360 200 hp engine in their
aircraft with an eight inch prop extension. They WERE running the last known
engine configuration that didn't meet Ivo's service bulletin.
What happens with the Velocity aircraft will determine how soon Ivo will
start FAA certification.
I believe I told the 500 people on this rv-list that they can "sit back and
watch" what happens with the Velocity aircraft.
If I didn't get that message across, I apologize.
I appologize for being optimistic about the performance of a new product.
But having built RV-3 serial number 50, I have a long history of trying new
products before they are proven. I haven't been disappointed yet.
I have been providing some "inside" information, and some insight, on Ivoprop
manufacturing to the rv-list.
It is really very simple; If this information isn't desired, I'll stop
providing it.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
<< The following is a re-print of an article that appeared in my newsletter.
It
relates to Ivo Prop and backs up what Jim Ayers has been saying.
"Beware Ivo Prop!!!
(stuff cut)
Jim Cone, Editor
Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing Newsletter
jamescone(at)aol.com
>>
Unfortunately, that article was about Bob Truder's ULTRALIGHT Ivoprop on a
Subaru engine. When I talked to Bob, he said he had changed the shape of the
blade airfoil by adding extra material (weight) on the outer portion of the
blades.
The Ivoprop prop designed for the Lyc. engine is the Ivoprop MAGNUM prop.
So far, it appears that a Lyc. IO-360 200 hp engine with an eight inch prop
extension creates the most hostile environment for a prop. The Velocity
aircraft company has designed their aircraft with this engine/extension
installation, and they are actively flying the Ivoprop Magnum electric flight
adjustable prop on their aircraft.
They are very happily accummulating the flight hours (that some of you have
been demanding). They are also demonstrating the suitability of the design
for FAA certification, even though none of their flight hours will apply to
the certification testing flight hours required.
At some time in the future, the question may become, Do I want the standard
prop, or the certified prop (for a not so modest extra cost). 25 flight area
hours, or 40 flight area hours (in the USA)??
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message are those of the author,
and not necessarily those of WNA and/or it's employees.
| From: | wbgroup(at)cis.co.za (waks & brady-brian hitchings) |
| Subject: | Re: MS FLIGHT SIMULATOR |
Hi to all
Does anybody know if any RV's have been "built" for the MS flight simulator?
Or, for that matter, any other simulator?
My shipping agent has phoned to say that my RV-6A empennage kit will arrive
this Saturday - so maybe I'll be flying in a week's time. Or maybe 2 week's
time if I'm really slow!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Timothy J. Etherington" <tjetheri(at)cca.rockwell.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder Horn question |
I am a little confused by studying the plans on the rivets to use for the
nutplate that attaches to the R-405PD rudder horn. The drawing shows flush
rivets for the nutplate to attach only to the rudder horn. The holes are
drilled through all the pieces. Why rivet only through the rudder horn and the
nutplate, why not rivet all the way through both those pieces and the rib and
rear spar?
Is there a ardinal rule about riveting through too many pieces? Should I rivet
those two with flush rivets and then rivet the other pieces with another flush
rivet or just leave the holes open?
Thanks in advance.
Tim Etherington
tjetheri(at)cca.rockwell.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: strange e-mail |
Richard,
As a computer programmer and new to the internet I would be interested
if you care to get more technical.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
On Wed, 23 Oct 1996, Richard Chandler wrote:
> What happened was limited to the pdx-rv list.
>
> The short form is, I was hacked. I could get more technical about it if you
> really care, but I was not the source of that mail.
>
>
> --
> "Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
> scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
> -- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
> "Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Props-chatter |
A bunch cut out.
>It is really very simple; If this information isn't desired, I'll stop
>providing it.
>
>Jim Ayers
>LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
>LesDrag(at)aol.com
>Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
Jim, for my vote, keep the info flowing. I thought that was the idea of the
list. I don't have to agree with everything presented on the list, but it
is information, and information leads to education. Some people are almost
violently against some things and are very opinionated (like nuclear proof
paint booths, what kind of PRIMER to use, that you can't build an RV without
such and such tool). Some of it I put in the same category as that stuff I
clean out of my cattle trailer after I've hauled bulls to market. But there
are also some gems that come through. Sorta like panning for gold, you have
to sift out a lot of tailings before you find the nugget. And to each of
us, the nugget may be something different than any one else would consider.
John D
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Info Needed on Woodward Governors/Garwin replacements |
Hi all:
While at OSH, I think, I was inspecting the -8, and noticed it had a prop gov
labeled "Garwin". I have one of these on my bird also. My understanding is
that they, like "Edo-aire", are no longer manufactured, as I was told this
by a fellow at one of the overhaul shops. They had bought a large pile of
these units, and were O/H them and selling them to folks like me, who didn't
necessarily need a yellow tag. I've bought four, for customers and muself.
$ 200, w/o core, I think. I had one start surging on me, and they promptly
replaced it, no charge.
Call EMI, inc. Ask for John. 800-237-9511, and tell him you don't need a
yellow tag. Other O/H shops may give similiar deals....
Check six!
Mark
mlfred(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.H.Mole -Richard Mole" <R.H.Mole(at)open.ac.uk> |
| Subject: | engine cooling enhancements by design. RV6 |
Hi there. I am very impressed with the RV series.
I am hoping that someone out there can tell me how engine cooling is
affected by
1. the mouldings bonded to the upper cowl of the RV6 - they form the roof on
the carefully designed air inlet ducts
2. the contoured outlet plate at the bottom of the firewall that is intended
to improve the exit conditions - see SK-96 in the builders manual
Perhaps someone knows the effect on CHTs of leaving out one or both of these
features?
Am presently carrying out a cooling development programme on an engine
installation in a Jodel (a French designed two seat small low wing a/c and
by RV standards its a paradox; a state-of-the-art implementation of wood and
fabric, ie yesterdays' technology).
I am making progress systematically, if slowly, and I would appreciate
feedback from those with real data - not just recycled general remarks.
Am well aware that cooling depends upon overall balance of system involving
inlet design, upper plenum conditions, clam baffles, and exit conditions
etc. So I am also aware that it can be very difficult to isolate the effects
on CHTs of messing about with parts of the system.
Any references to technical literature of real value would be greatly
appreciated.
Thanks
Rich Mole
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heated Pitot?? |
>I'm an EAA Tech Counselor and I've got a question for the List. I just
>visited a Merlin GT-914 project. The Merlin is a high wing tail dragger
>with a high lift wing; the stall can be in the 30-40 mph range.
>
>The builder wants to equip his aircraft with IFR instruments so as to be
>able to pop up through the 400 foot fog layer we often have around the
>Seattle area. He'll need a heated pitot for this. Is there an inexpensive
>way of doing this?
>
>TIA
>
>John Ammeter
>ammeterj(at)seanet.com
>3233 NE 95th St
>Seattle WA, 98115 USA
>RV-6 N16JA
>First flight August 1990
>
>
>
John,
What specific FAR are you referring to that requires a heated pitot tube for
part 91 IFR ? Part 135 requires a heated pitot for IFR, but he's not about
to do that in a homebuilt. Doesn't part 91.??? list all the minimum
equipment for VFR/ IFR flight? A heated pitot is not on this list. I got
my instrument and CFII tickets in an IFR 152 that didn't have a heated
pitot. I plan on having my RV-6A certified for IFR, without the heated pitot.
-Scott Gesele N506RV
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heated Pitot?? |
John Ammeter wrote:
>
> I'm an EAA Tech Counselor and I've got a question for the List. I just
> visited a Merlin GT-914 project. The Merlin is a high wing tail dragger
> with a high lift wing; the stall can be in the 30-40 mph range.
>
> The builder wants to equip his aircraft with IFR instruments so as to be
> able to pop up through the 400 foot fog layer we often have around the
> Seattle area. He'll need a heated pitot for this. Is there an inexpensive
> way of doing this?
>
> TIA
>
> John Ammeter
> ammeterj(at)seanet.com
> 3233 NE 95th St
> Seattle WA, 98115 USA
> RV-6 N16JA
> First flight August 1990
John, inexpensive is relative. With Warren Gretz' mount and a
commercially available pitot head, the cost can be $200 - $300. This is
minute compared to the rest of the IFR package. For details, see my
RV-6A page http:\\ic.net\~patk\rv6a.htm and look at chapter 22 of the
book-style presentation.
BTW, if you are ever near Detroit/Ann Arbor, come look at my project.
PatK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Flap Brace question |
Ok, my turn to ask a question. I'm fitting the flap and flap brace to
the rear spar. I've modified the inboard end of the flap brace to fit
around the stiffener strips and reinforcement plate. However, I see
nothing in the plans about fitting the brace around the reinforcement at
the outboard end. Do I modify the brace similar to the inboard end
(seems like overkill for such a short step-up)? Do I just trim the flap
brace flange to clear the reinforcement plate? What did others do? I
haven't spotted this in the archives, though I may have missed it. I am
also reasonably sure it's not in the plans anywhere. Thanks for your
help, guys and gals.
PatK - RV-6A - Fitting flap and aileron to left wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E Steffens" <resteffe(at)dpcmail.dukepower.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Props-chatter |
Jim Ayers wrote: ......
>I have been providing some "inside" information, and some insight, on Ivoprop
>manufacturing to the rv-list.
>It is really very simple; If this information isn't desired, I'll stop
>providing it.
In following the Ivoprop thread I perceive that there was a legitimate safety
concern, but that development is continuing with the goal of providing another
propeller alternative between a fixed pitched and constant speed. Although I
will initially be using wood prop on an IO-360 (RV-6 nearing completion), I like
having options and being informed. Never know what I'll try next. Just because
something may have had some problems once doesn't mean it's no good forevermore.
Keep sending the info Jim.
Our airplanes have the word "Expermental" on them. If that's uncomfortable,
there's always Cessna (boring).
Dick Steffens
resteffe(at)dpcmail.dukepower.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HowardRV(at)aol.com |
Any sugguestions from the group as to good manuals for the Lycoming Engines?
Repair, maint etc. Reply directly if you like to me.
Thanks
Howard Kidwell
howardrv(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
| Subject: | Re: Props-chatter |
>I appologize for being optimistic about the performance of a new product.
> But having built RV-3 serial number 50, I have a long history of trying new
>products before they are proven. I haven't been disappointed yet.
>
>I have been providing some "inside" information, and some insight, on Ivoprop
>manufacturing to the rv-list.
>It is really very simple; If this information isn't desired, I'll stop
>providing it.
>
>Jim Ayers
>LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
>LesDrag(at)aol.com
>Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
>
Jim,
I wont speak for anyone else but I certainly appreciate a guy who is
willing to try something new and share what he learns with others. My
interest in homebuilding is to put together a unique airplane that hopefully
will stand out from the crowd performance and appearance wise, and without
costing a fortune. That means that I will probably be forced to deviate from
the standard RV approach (Lyc power and certified cs prop).
Thanks for your insights and please keep them coming.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KHarrill(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Heated Pitot?? |
<< The builder wants to equip his aircraft with IFR instruments so as to be
able to pop up through the 400 foot fog layer we often have around the
Seattle area. He'll need a heated pitot for this. Is there an inexpensive
way of doing this?
>>
John,
I bought a used Cessna heated pitot tube at the fly market in Lakeland for
$50 and the mount from Warren Gretz for $80, if I remember correctly. With
some minor modifications it looks like the combination will work just fine.
Ken Harrill
RV - 6, wings
KHarrill(at)AOL.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pfrancis(at)spdmail.spd.dsccc.com (Phil Francis) |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Horn question |
> From: "Timothy J. Etherington" <cca.rockwell.com!tjetheri(at)matronics.com>
> Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 05:58:48 -0700
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Rudder Horn question
> Mime-Version: 1.0
>
> I am a little confused by studying the plans on the rivets to use for the
> nutplate that attaches to the R-405PD rudder horn. The drawing shows flush
> rivets for the nutplate to attach only to the rudder horn. The holes are
> drilled through all the pieces. Why rivet only through the rudder horn and the
> nutplate, why not rivet all the way through both those pieces and the rib and
> rear spar?
>
> Is there a ardinal rule about riveting through too many pieces? Should I rivet
> those two with flush rivets and then rivet the other pieces with another flush
> rivet or just leave the holes open?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Tim Etherington
> tjetheri(at)cca.rockwell.com
To me it looked like a carry over from the pre pre-punch days and I decided
to use AN470AD4-8's (if memory serves) through the whole assembly (I checked
with my technical counselor (who has built 2 RV-6's) and he said it looked
like a carry over to him and he would also use longer rivets all the way
through).
phil francis
pfrancis(at)spd.dsccc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: strange e-mail |
>
> I have noticed occasionally some peoples messages are
> appended with some quotes about painting the ceiling, I forget, and some
> other pseudo-philosophical crap. I've seen the exact same quotes several
> times but have no idea where they originated. >
>
I believe the "painting the ceiling" thing is a quote from a satuirday morning
cartoon called "Animainiacs". It's in reference to that guy that painted pictures
on the sealing of the Cystine Chapel. I think his name was Leonardo daVinci, or
something like that. He was a pseudo-philosopher in his time, and spent his non-
painting years dreaming of flying and other such nonsense.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Horn question |
>> The drawing shows flush
>>rivets for the nutplate to attach only to the rudder horn. The >>holes are
>>drilled through all the pieces. Why rivet only through the >>rudder horn
and the
>>, why not rivet all the way through both those pieces and the >>rib and
>>rear spar?
I riveted only to the horn, and then noticed it looked funny with all the
unfilled holes! Called Vans, and they said it was fine not to rivet all the
way through. The plans are a bit confusing, but either way will work.
Jon Scholl
RV6
scholl.jon(at)bcg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: strange e-mail |
rv-list users:
Sorry about the confusion over the "strange email". As far as I knopw,
the email in question only went out to subscribers of the pdxrv-list --
that's PDX rv list -- Portland OR area rvers only, who were subscribed
to my local list in Portland, OR. I deactivated that list when it
happened, but because of the confusion, I will now reactivate it long
enough to broadcast some more information on the incident to the locals
only. In the mean time, there's no need to bother the whole rv-list
with it.
Randall Henderson
pdxrv-list admin
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J.C. Hassall" <jhassall(at)ipass.net> |
| Subject: | Re: MS FLIGHT SIMULATOR |
>Hi to all
>
>Does anybody know if any RV's have been "built" for the MS flight simulator?
>Or, for that matter, any other simulator?
I'm "building" an RV-6 model for Instrument Flight Trainer Pro (v5.1) [the
*only* building I'm doing right now :-(( ]. I'll be glad to post it when
finished, if there is interest. Is anyone out there using IFT Pro, and
could "test fly" my model? Having never even *seen* one first hand, I have
only specs to go from. I'm basing performance on a 160 HP engine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Heated Pitot?? |
Hi y'all,
Someone said that a heated pitot isn't needed and another said he doesn't plan
one one on his IFR capable RV.
A heated pitot tube is not required by law but I'd hate to try to convince an
NTSB judge that I was acting wisely to fly in IMC without one.
There is an experiment you might try. Alternately pinch off and release the
tube to your air speed indicator, preferably while having a passenger whack you
about the head with a rolled up newspaper.
Or just do it as a mental experiment. Imagine popping up thru the overcast to
find that there is a blob of cloud right where you hoped to pop out and it is
raining freezing rain and sleet. The pucker factor rises but you remind
yourself to fly the airplane - stay on the gauges. You can't really see the
other gauges, however, because you are mesmerized by the spasms of the ASI. Now
20K and a second or two later, 190K. No fun, I know.
I was fortunate in my IFR training to have an instructor guide me into some cu
with pitot heat off (I forgot to turn it on) and moderate icing. I suppose it
was illegal but the base of the clouds was 5000'.
You do need a heated pitot. Maybe $125 for the tube; a switch; some heavy wire;
a bracket. Don't forget static ports and alternate air.
Hal Kempthorne
Debonair N6134V - soon to be RV-6AQ
>
> I'm an EAA Tech Counselor and I've got a question for the List. I just
> visited a Merlin GT-914 project. The Merlin is a high wing tail dragger
> with a high lift wing; the stall can be in the 30-40 mph range.
>
> The builder wants to equip his aircraft with IFR instruments so as to be
> able to pop up through the 400 foot fog layer we often have around the
> Seattle area. He'll need a heated pitot for this. Is there an inexpensive
> way of doing this?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DMCooke <dmcooke(at)rand.nidlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Props-chatter |
Mike Wills wrote:
>
> I certainly appreciate a guy who is
> willing to try something new and share what he learns with others.
> Thanks for your insights and please keep them coming.
Ditto from me Jim!
Keep sharing the spirit and joy of experimenting.
Dave Cooke
dmcooke(at)rand.nidlink.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rich Klee <Rich_Klee(at)ccm.fm.intel.com> |
| Subject: | *** SALE *** -6A (50%done) & O320 & tools for *** SALE*** |
I have been forced to give up my project, here is what is for sale:
1.) 6A kits - slider option 320 conical mount - all parts included
Done: Tail Feathers - complete w/all fiberglass glassed in.
Wings - All Al work done (tanks Pro-Sealed and tested)
Fuselage - ready to come out of Jig.
Note: Comparable completion stage would be the Fast Build c
kit. At this stage could be converted into a 6 easily.
I have hosted a number of meetings of the Sacramento RV club and
other builders have said that my workmanship is better than
average.
2.) Engine - O-320 -A2B with forward mounted carb sump, Hollow crank,
Narrow deck cylinders, 150hp and all AD's implemented.
Note: No Log books, but has been completely disassembled
Magnifluxed, and Zyglowed and measured ( all tolerances fall within
factory limits (NOT service limits)) and have all receipts showing
new parts and services performed (about $3500).
3.) All tools ( mainly Avery - about $1300), but if you have nothing,
the bandsaw, compressor, grinder... must go too.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Would like too sell as a package - $18K, and you get the compressor,
grinder, bandsaw, drill press, benches, and Avery tools worth about
$1300 and anything else you may need to finish this.
Separately: 6A -$ 9K, O320 - $9K, Tools - everything -$2K
Must sell before November 20th - at that time any offers will be
considered.
Now all you need is a Garage and an UNDERSTANDING wife/SO.
=======================================================================
Rich Klee 715 19th St. #3
rich_klee(at)ccm.fm.intel.com Sacramento, CA 95614
work (916) 356-6786 home(916) 441-6381
=======================================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Heated Pitot?? |
> What specific FAR are you referring to that requires a heated pitot tube for
> part 91 IFR ? Part 135 requires a heated pitot for IFR, but he's not about
> to do that in a homebuilt. Doesn't part 91.??? list all the minimum
> equipment for VFR/ IFR flight? A heated pitot is not on this list. I got
> my instrument and CFII tickets in an IFR 152 that didn't have a heated
> pitot. I plan on having my RV-6A certified for IFR, without the heated pitot.
Interesting point about the FARs -- I wasn't aware that a heated pitot
was not required in FAR part 91, but apparently you are correct, as I
can't find any such requirement in the part 91 regs (except for CAT II
operations).
BUT... I can only guess that you either live in a hot area of the
country, or that you never fly IFR other than in the summertime.
I bought a heated pitot from Aircraft Spruce, for $129. It doesn't seem
like all that much money to pay for that extra measure of safety. I
have been in situations where I was flying below the reported freezing
level, and looked out the window to see ice forming on the wings. When
it comes to flying in clouds, I'd just as soon not try to cut corners.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: MS FLIGHT SIMULATOR |
>Hi to all
>
>Does anybody know if any RV's have been "built" for the MS flight simulator?
Yes, there's an RV-6 for MS FS 5.1. You will need Flight Shop to use it though.
For any MS FS stuff, the best place to look is
http://www.iup.edu/flight-sim/files/uploads. From there, the directories are
arranged by initial letter of the filename, so the RV-6 should be in
http://www.iup.edu/flight-sim/files/uploads/r
If you need any more help, please get back to me by email.
Frank.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Re: Motor Manuals |
Sky Ranch Engineering Manual by John Schwaner. See web site
http://www.sierra.net/skyranch
1-800-648-5410
Ross Mickey
6-A Fuse out of Jig
>Any sugguestions from the group as to good manuals for the Lycoming Engines?
> Repair, maint etc. Reply directly if you like to me.
>
>Thanks
>
>Howard Kidwell
>howardrv(at)aol.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Motor Manuals |
Howard,
Textron Lycoming sells a variety of publications.
OPERATIOR'S MANUALS
OVERHAUL MANUALS
PARTS CATALOGS
SERVICE BULLETINS, INSTRUCTIONS, LETTERS
SPECIAL SERVICE PUBLICATIONS
ENGINE SPECIFICATIONS AND INSTALLATION DRAWINGS
OWNER ADVISORY
All can be purchased directly from Textron Lycoming. Ask for Service Letter
No. 114 which is their order form. Also, if you ask they will send a free
KEY REPRINTS from their FLYER publication. This thing is full of good
stuff and I usually read a few pages before bedtime just to have good
dreams :-)
TEXTRON Lycoming
652 Oliver Street
Williamsport, PA 17701
717.327.7278 FAX 717.327.7022
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
On Thu, 24 Oct 1996 aol.com!HowardRV(at)matronics.com wrote:
> Any sugguestions from the group as to good manuals for the Lycoming Engines?
> Repair, maint etc. Reply directly if you like to me.
>
> Thanks
>
> Howard Kidwell
> howardrv(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Brace question |
All I did was rivit it on with no mods. This gives a bump up in the flap
brace where it goes over the reinforcement plate. Looks good to me and none
of the other builders or tech advisors has mentioned anything about it. I
did not however point it out to them as it didn't look like a problem to me.
Ross Mickey
6A out ot jig
>Ok, my turn to ask a question. I'm fitting the flap and flap brace to
>the rear spar. I've modified the inboard end of the flap brace to fit
>around the stiffener strips and reinforcement plate. However, I see
>nothing in the plans about fitting the brace around the reinforcement at
>the outboard end. Do I modify the brace similar to the inboard end
>(seems like overkill for such a short step-up)? Do I just trim the flap
>brace flange to clear the reinforcement plate? What did others do? I
>haven't spotted this in the archives, though I may have missed it. I am
>also reasonably sure it's not in the plans anywhere. Thanks for your
>help, guys and gals.
>
>PatK - RV-6A - Fitting flap and aileron to left wing
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Horn question |
>I am a little confused by studying the plans on the rivets to use for the
>nutplate that attaches to the R-405PD rudder horn. The drawing shows flush
>rivets for the nutplate to attach only to the rudder horn. The holes are
>drilled through all the pieces. Why rivet only through the rudder horn and the
>nutplate, why not rivet all the way through both those pieces and the rib and
>rear spar?
>
>Tim Etherington
>tjetheri(at)cca.rockwell.com
>
I don't have the plans in front of me here at work, but having just
completed my rudder spar to the priming stage, I recall that the holes
attaching the nutplate to R-405 DO NOT go all the way through to the spar.
Only R-405 is drilled to accept the flush rivets.
Somebody please correct me so I can fix mine before riveting.
Rob Acker
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
(r.acker@ix.netcom.com or http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBC1CD.FDB25580
Chris,
With all due respect the "Sistine Chapel" ceiling was painted by Michael =
Angelo and I would be more impressed with your knowledge of history if =
you knew who tiled the floor. Nice attempt at "committing humor" though. =
AL
----------
From: Chris Ruble[SMTP:cisco.com!cruble(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 1996 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: strange e-mail
>=20
> I have noticed occasionally some peoples messages are=20
> appended with some quotes about painting the ceiling, I forget, and =
some=20
> other pseudo-philosophical crap. I've seen the exact same quotes =
several=20
> times but have no idea where they originated. >=20
>
I believe the "painting the ceiling" thing is a quote from a satuirday =
morning=20
cartoon called "Animainiacs". It's in reference to that guy that =
painted pictures=20
on the sealing of the Cystine Chapel. I think his name was Leonardo =
daVinci, or=20
something like that. He was a pseudo-philosopher in his time, and spent =
his non-=20
painting years dreaming of flying and other such nonsense.
Chris =20
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBC1CD.FDB25580
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TGK7X5QekGtakibwKTFIa6T/WjBUHjpRZOFrMljiUnVOsbdZYWtCAiAtKeZeN3laIL8RoBxAFhBX
IGj1GOB5HqLzIMJTtHN1EXByghGwdoH+Lkbsd8IyRCnmRu9H/0kMCwqFFTEAfKAAAwAQEAAAAAAD
ABEQAAAAAEAABzCg0Z697sG7AUAACDCg0Z697sG7AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAjrg=
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBC1CD.FDB25580--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Props-chatter |
>
>Our airplanes have the word "Expermental" on them. If that's uncomfortable,
>there's always Cessna (boring).
>
>Dick Steffens
>resteffe(at)dpcmail.dukepower.com
Expermental? I like it, but the FAA might not accept it .
Rob Acker
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
(r.acker@ix.netcom.com or http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flap Brace question |
Patrick Kelley wrote:
>
> Ok, my turn to ask a question. I'm fitting the flap and flap brace to
> the rear spar. I've modified the inboard end of the flap brace to fit
> around the stiffener strips and reinforcement plate. However, I see
> nothing in the plans about fitting the brace around the reinforcement at
> the outboard end. Do I modify the brace similar to the inboard end
> (seems like overkill for such a short step-up)? Do I just trim the flap
> brace flange to clear the reinforcement plate? What did others do? I
> haven't spotted this in the archives, though I may have missed it. I am
> also reasonably sure it's not in the plans anywhere. Thanks for your
> help, guys and gals.
>
> PatK - RV-6A - Fitting flap and aileron to left wing
Pat
I modified the outboard end just like the inboard end.
the important thing is that the flap brace does not
distort the piano hinge.
It only takes a little twist and the hinge pins
will become a giant pain in the $*%% to get in and out
CRAIG HIERS
RV-4
N143CH
BLED THE BRAKES LEAKS EVERYWHERE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WstcttPrss(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: *** SALE *** -6A (50%done) & O320 & tools for *** SALE*** |
Rich-
Keeping the kit and getting rid of the wife could be a lot more fun.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Heated Pitot?? |
Paul,
Scott raises a question that I can't answer; do you NEED or just want a
heated pitot?
I've cc'd this to the RV-List as I'm sure others would like to know the answer.
JA
>Return-Path:
>Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 09:33:31 -0400
>X-Sender: scottg(at)villagenet.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>From: Scott Gesele <villagenet.com!scottg(at)matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Heated Pitot??
>Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Precedence: bulk
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>X-UIDL: 37d51443ca4309115278cedbe06d90a1
>
>>I'm an EAA Tech Counselor and I've got a question for the List. I just
>>visited a Merlin GT-914 project. The Merlin is a high wing tail dragger
>>with a high lift wing; the stall can be in the 30-40 mph range.
>>
>>The builder wants to equip his aircraft with IFR instruments so as to be
>>able to pop up through the 400 foot fog layer we often have around the
>>Seattle area. He'll need a heated pitot for this. Is there an inexpensive
>>way of doing this?
>>
>>TIA
>>
>>John Ammeter
>>ammeterj(at)seanet.com
>>3233 NE 95th St
>>Seattle WA, 98115 USA
>>RV-6 N16JA
>>First flight August 1990
>>
>>
>>
>
>John,
>
>What specific FAR are you referring to that requires a heated pitot tube for
>part 91 IFR ? Part 135 requires a heated pitot for IFR, but he's not about
>to do that in a homebuilt. Doesn't part 91.??? list all the minimum
>equipment for VFR/ IFR flight? A heated pitot is not on this list. I got
>my instrument and CFII tickets in an IFR 152 that didn't have a heated
>pitot. I plan on having my RV-6A certified for IFR, without the heated
pitot.
>
>-Scott Gesele N506RV
>scottg(at)villagenet.com
>
>
>
>
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | "Experimental"-chatter |
<< Our airplanes have the word "Expermental" on them. If that's
uncomfortable,
there's always Cessna (boring).
Dick Steffens
resteffe(at)dpcmail.dukepower.com
>>
Hi All,
One thing that we all need to understand in working with any product
manufacturer; In responding to a question about how you are going to use
their product, If the manufacturer says anything like "it's an experimental,
you can do whatever you want", RED FLAGS should go up immediately.
I have found that there is no approval implied in that statement.
Instead, you are going to do something very stupid, which the manufacturer
has probably already determined to NOT work.
I've heard the words, been there and done that. And I created an unnecessary
risk for myself.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Soft Prop Strike (FYI) |
A soft prop strike occurs when something like a towel, jacket, t-shirt,
pillow, etc. gets hit by a prop blade. On a metal prop (and usually for a
wood prop), a soft strike causes little, if any, damage.
Composite props are a completely different matter. A soft strike can destroy
the internal structure of the blade, and will usually split out through the
leading edge, or trailing edge, about a foot from the hub.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Brace question |
Pat,
I relieved the flap brace anywhere there was interference with a rivet
or a step. This was easy as the brace is full of lightening holes. I'm
fairly sure it's the same on the 6's.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
On Thu, 24 Oct 1996, Patrick Kelley wrote:
> Ok, my turn to ask a question. I'm fitting the flap and flap brace to
> the rear spar. I've modified the inboard end of the flap brace to fit
> around the stiffener strips and reinforcement plate. However, I see
> nothing in the plans about fitting the brace around the reinforcement at
> the outboard end. Do I modify the brace similar to the inboard end
> (seems like overkill for such a short step-up)? Do I just trim the flap
> brace flange to clear the reinforcement plate? What did others do? I
> haven't spotted this in the archives, though I may have missed it. I am
> also reasonably sure it's not in the plans anywhere. Thanks for your
> help, guys and gals.
>
> PatK - RV-6A - Fitting flap and aileron to left wing
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Motor Manuals |
Hi,
You might email John at Sacramento Skyranch - they have engine manuals at maybe
better prices. They also have one called the Skyranch Engineering Manual which
is a bit more general but still aircraft engines. You know, "hopace"s -
horizontally opposed piston air cooled engines. I don't think it had much about
the myriad other kinds of a/c engines.
He's at:
skyranc!john(at)netcom.com
Then, of course, there's amazon books. http://www.amazon.com
There's a ton of stuff (any book store) about working on autoengines. Even
automotive hopace's!
Hal Kempthorne
Debonair N6134V <<<----- This is gonna change!
halk(at)sybase.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Horn question |
> I don't have the plans in front of me here at work, but having just
> completed my rudder spar to the priming stage, I recall that the holes
> attaching the nutplate to R-405 DO NOT go all the way through to the spar.
> Only R-405 is drilled to accept the flush rivets.
>
> Somebody please correct me so I can fix mine before riveting.
The real question is: does it matter? The answer: probably not.
I don't recall the specifics of the exact part you are talking about,
but in general the only thing the rivets holding the nut plates in do
is to keep the nut plate from rotating. Two rivets through just about
any thickness will handle it. If you drilled through a bunch of
thicknesses but just riveted through the one thickness, then you just
have some empty holes, and that's not going to hurt anything (unless
of course it shows! :-)
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen ) |
| Subject: | Van's E-mail address? |
What is Van's E-mail address?
Finn
finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder Horn question |
I drilled mine all the way through because I couldn't for the LIFE of me
figure out why
it would be better to not drill through. I called Van's and they
confirmed that drilling
all the way through is absolutely fine.
--------------------- cut here
--------------------------------------------------------------
Mitch Faatz mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com San Jose, CA
RV-6AQME N727MF (reserved)
Working on trim tab, left elevator, and floor panels.
>----------
>From: r.acker[SMTP:ix.netcom.com!r.acker(at)matronics.com]
>Sent: Thursday, October 24, 1996 9:22 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Rudder Horn question
>
>>I am a little confused by studying the plans on the rivets to use for the
>>nutplate that attaches to the R-405PD rudder horn. The drawing shows flush
>>rivets for the nutplate to attach only to the rudder horn. The holes are
>>drilled through all the pieces. Why rivet only through the rudder horn and
>>the
>>nutplate, why not rivet all the way through both those pieces and the rib
>>and
>>rear spar?
>>
>>Tim Etherington
>>tjetheri(at)cca.rockwell.com
>>
>
>I don't have the plans in front of me here at work, but having just
>completed my rudder spar to the priming stage, I recall that the holes
>attaching the nutplate to R-405 DO NOT go all the way through to the spar.
>Only R-405 is drilled to accept the flush rivets.
>
>Somebody please correct me so I can fix mine before riveting.
>
>Rob Acker
>Rancho Santa Margarita, CA / RV-6Q / N164RA reserved
>(r.acker@ix.netcom.com or http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Motor Manuals |
<< Any sugguestions from the group as to good manuals for the Lycoming
Engines?
Repair, maint etc. Reply directly if you like to me. >>
I ordered a Lycoming direct drive overhaul manual from ACS. It was around
$16 I think.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | FAA and major changes |
>>I have seen a lot of message traffic concerning topics such as switching to
>>different engines or propellers. Doesn't this cause a lot of hassle having to
>>go through the FAA for reinspection??
The operative word here is new "airworthiness certificate" based upon
your testing, accomplished according to a test plan developed by you and
approved by your certification office or DAR. During flight testing you
may expect to have some operating limitations put on not unlike those
which were imposed when the airplane was originally flown . . .
>>What did it take to get the FAA to sign off on the changes? I am
>>interested in whether it is a big deal or just a quick
>>sign off. Thanks for the input.
It shouldn't be a quick sign-off . . . as owner/builder/designer
of the airframe and/or modifications to it you're obligated to
produce a test plan . . . but be easy on yourself . . don't make
it anything more than you'd have to do if it were a brand new
airplane. Don't try to "dry-lab" it either. Of course the new
installation is still subject to critical design review . . make
sure you're on firm footing with respect to stresses, weight and
balance, etc. They're going to want to look over your workmanship
too . . just as if you were bringing a new homebuilt to life but
with a little more caution unless you're proposing something that's
been done dozens of times before.
If you try to make it too easy, powers that be may make it harder
than it needs to be. The goal is for you, as manufacturer to
demonstrate that you haven't built any new hazards into the
airplane as a result of the modification. If the mod has been
successfully accomplish on other airframes, get pictures, flight
history, installation drawings, etc.
Go to the FAA with the plan, they will issue temporary
restrictions while the plan is carried out after which you'll get
a new airworthiness certificate for unrestricted flight.
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========oOOo=(_)=oOOo==========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Morristec(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Props-chatter |
Hello all,
In following this thread I would like to make 2 pertinent comments (.02 cents
worth).
First please keep providing accurate information updating the list on the
status of any related topic. I stress accurate because there is a lot of
undocumented heresay that gets posted as gospel truth. If the accuracy is in
doubt just say so when posting.
Second, I would like to relate my direct experience with IVO. I have folled
IVO's prop development with interest for about 5 years. There is a definite
appeal to a variable pitch prop without all the expense of constant speed
arrangements. As a result I have had many direct conversations with Ivo at
SNF and OSH. In addition, the experience of helicopter manufactuerers with
composite Main and T/R blades has been very good, with long blade life being
the norm. Of course there are several differences, the most notable being
the pulse from the power stroke of the 4 cyl Lyc. For the time being I have
decided against Ivo's props for the following reasons:
1. As of OSH, Ivo has not performed either analysis or actual testing to
determine the vibratory characteristics of any of his propellers. He self
admittedly does not know where the resononances are, and the severity.
Furthermore he indicated that he had no intention to pursue these issues.
Any good prop manufacturer has this basic data. (Re: Sensenich 2600 RPM
limit).
2. When I asked about the alleged prop failures his first response was to
deny failures ever occurred. When I presented further knowledge of the
failures, he admitted that there were some. He attributed them all to user
modifications, or improper installation (could be true). However, it is
important that all of us involved in experiments where we put our lives on
the line be communicative and fully aware of any risk. I didn't consider his
denial a responsible action.
3. When the discussion got technical Ivo became uncomfortable and shoo'd me
away. A good sign that more questions need to be asked.
4. Most of his high HP (claimed to be 700+ HP) experience with the Magnium
prop, and his own test rig, is with automotive V engines. Much lower power
pulses.
My background is in FAA certification of aircraft and I am somewhat aware of
the certification requirements for propellers. Just because Ivo completes
certification doesn't mean he has a good product, although it does
demonstrate a limited level of reliability. A propeller failure resulting in
a blade departure may rip the engine from the aircraft before the pilot can
respond. We need to be careful here.
Dan Morris
Morristec(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Nice RV6A for sale |
Hi Gang,
I have decided to put my RV6A - N517RL - up for sale. I dont seem to
have the opportunity to fly at this time - heck, I had to work last
Weekend and missed Kerrville!. - seems I only have free time after the
hours of darkness!
So I'm going to build another one instead of wasting time watching
re-runs on the TV every evening.
What it is.....
RV6A - First flight was May 1996 by Mark (Check six) Frederick - TT
now about 50 hours. If you were at OSH you may have seen the plane, -
Dark Green and pearl Gray Acrylic enamel with 12" N numbers, Sliding
canopy and polished prop.
150HP 0-320 with 850hrs since major, Hartzell CS prop.
Flys real nice, and good workmanship throughout - ask Mark Frederick
or Greg Bordelon about either subject.
Loaded out with lots of goodies in with the deal....
Dual navcoms, dual vors, audiopanel, ELT, Transponder w/ mode C,
glideslope, Lowrance GPS moving map in the panel, Full engine
monitoring system, Fuel flow meter, full gyros, intercom with digital
clearance recorder, full strobes and lights, landing / taxi lights,
dual brakes, dual steps, electric flaps, manual aileron and elevator
trim, glove box, gray leather/fabric seats , fully trimmed out
interior, two piece wheelpants (with stripes of course!) I'll even
throw in 2 sets of flightcom blackhawk headsets - $57K or close offer.
Contact me off list - av8r(at)hic.net, or call 713-992-3916 for more
info. Plane is hangared at Ellington field near Houston - will deliver
within reason (Hmmmm - Thoughts...just about anywhere in the
continental U.S. is within reason for an RV!!)
Sorry to take up bandwidth on the list for personal purposes - Back to
building you Guys - I hope to be building again soon!
Regards
Rob Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RFlunker(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | F604 <-> F605 Distance |
I was talking to John at Van's the other day about suggestions he might have
regarding proven ways to be sure to get the exact distance between the Front
and rear Spar replicated to the F604 and F605. I haven't seen his suggestion
mentioned on the list so thought I'd share it and also see if anyone has done
it this way. His suggestion was to make two jigs, one for each wing. The
first step is to leave your 'dummy' spar extend several inches on each side
of the F604. Then make a jig by clamping an angle to the aft side of the main
spar, another angle to the forward side of the rear spar mount, making sure
the distances from the angle to the rib are the same on both spars. The
angles are then connected by drilling though the angle into a wooden brace,
and bolting together. By removing the jig from the wing and clamping to the
aft side of the 'dummy' spar, the rear angle should align perfectly with the
rear support. Some scrap aluminim can be clamped to the rear jig angle and
it should fit perfectly into the mounting slot. This sounds very logical (to
me anyway) so I plan to try it. Has anyone else done it this way? Any
additional hints??
Dick Flunker - Getting there..
(RFLUNKER2AOL.COM)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Exp Bus Follow Up |
Re: Exp Bus Follow Up
>>I asked Control Vision to answer some queries about
>>their Exp Bus DC Management Unit (see http://www.
>>controlvision.com). They came back with answers
>>which I am am happy with.
>>Question: Under full load the EXp Bus could potentially be
>>carrying 40 Amps. Some would say that a bunch of wires
>>and connectors is going to be better than a printed
>>circuit board under these circumstances. What have you
>>done to ensure that the Exp Bus can handle this sort of load?
> We have used massive traces with heavy copper plating, and our board can
> take well in excess of 60 amps of DC current (tested!)
This is generally not a problem . . . I've designed a number of
system that put 40+ amp continuous loads on PCB traces. Actually,
Heavy current is EASIER to handle in thin wide traces than with
a similar cross section of round wire . . . heat rejection area
and surface contact is higher.
>>Question: Because the PCB could have some connectors or track exposed
>>is there a possibility that a short may occur resulting in catastrophic failure?
> Again, we thought of that. The PC board is conformal coated with a
> resin, covering all traces and pads and solder connections. The
> terminals ARE exposed, as are all terminals in every spam can aircraft I
> have ever had the misfortune to venture under the instrument panel of...
>
> Really, if this is a concern, simply form an enclosure around the pc
> board with a piece of vinyl, or aluminum. We considered an enclosure,
> but as all homebuilts are different, this was deemed to be impractical.
A common question I see concerning any bus bar installation, "What happens
if the bus bar gets shorted?" I answer with, "Take a tool box and walk
out to any airplane of your choice and show me how you're going to get
the breaker bus grounded using only materials already present and in
close enough proximity to be a potential fault generator. Fact is,
there are no materials that fill the bill . . . exposed bus structures
behind the panel are generally quite free of such hazards or easily made
to be so . . .
> If you get the product, and are concerned that it won't
> perform safely, we will gladly return your money [although shipping
> charges to NZ and back would be your gamble!!!) Always remember that in
> an aircraft, you must be totally sure of the technology you are using, we
> understand that this is rule number 1!!!
I'm not concerned with SAFETY here . . . the potential failures I see here
will result in passive shut down of the affected circuit.
TOTALLY SURE is the operative phrase here. This product is mere months
in the markeplace and quite low in flight hours of experience compared
to breakers and/or fuses. . . .
>>Personally, I am far happier with solid state fuse technology as implemented
>>on the Exp Bus than with circuit breakers or fuses. I think these guys have
>>developed a unit which will considerably simplify electrical wiring
>>homebuilders and is probably much more reliable than hand wired looms.
I'm curious as to the source of the warm-fuzzy-feelings; the product
is new, the parts count is high, using electrical contacts of switches
(designed to support wires) as mechanical supports for PCB's is not
recommended by any switch manufacturer.
How will one control stresses on these contacts during installation? Variations
in hole location, twist on the mounting nuts, switch to switch variations,
assembly variations when soldering to the board, etc ?. . . These may add up
to reduced switch life. When a switch needs to be replaced, you have to
drop the whole assembly with switches intact and replace one switch (the
replacement has to be exactly like it's adjacent brothers) while fixturing
it with sufficient precision to prevent new stresses on the assembly
when it's reinstalled.
I've no doubt that purveyors of this product BELIEVE they've got a good thing
going here but I can assure you that had the product received the benefit
of critical design review and/or extensive field testing, it would be built
much differently. There's nothing sinister going on here, they simply don't
KNOW any better.
. . . and last, I would challenge the idea that this product "simplifies"
anything . . the hardest part of building a switch panel is getting all the
holes in a straight line and then putting on decent looking lables. The
product in question doesn't address that issue at all. Beyond putting all
the switches in straight and making them look good, the use of fuseblocks
makes the rest of the task trivial and it's a whole lot less expensive (approx
$10 per switched branch and $1.75 per unswitched branch). A 30-fuse, 6-switch
electrical distribution system can be installed for about $120 tops!
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
October 16, 1996 - October 24, 1996
RV-Archive.digest.vol-ca