RV-Archive.digest.vol-cd
November 14, 1996 - November 23, 1996
Conformable Acrylic Foam Tape
The sample I have is a little thick (45 mils)
I am still waitning on tech sheets and will post info when received.
Final note.... I spoke with the 3m rep, slos a pilot who commented that
it is very good at reducing oil canning. Also, after a cure time of 72
hours the tape is stronger than rivits due to the total are it covers
vs. rivits. Just info.........
Rick
--
Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
Rick Osgood
9200 Flying Cloud Dr.
Eden Prairie, MN 55347
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Matronics Web Page Update! |
subject: super glue
a little background on the stuff called super glue or crazyglue. It is a
material made from Cyanoacrylate ester. The stuff that glues your fingers
together in an instant. The stuff was actually used for a while be doctors
to glue wounds together. Worked well because it devolves in water about the
same time as the wound heals. Completely disappears in about six weeks.
NOTE: it desolves in water over a period of time. Do not use super glue
for anything that you want to stay together.
Gene Francis
RV-6A N23GF
(not flying yet)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: backdrilling HS skeleton/skins |
Hi Allan,
You don't say what type of RV you're building, nor whether it's a
pre-drilled kit. I'll assume it's pre-drilled (a -6A perhaps?)
> I'm getting close to skinning my horizontal stabilizer. I've read
>Van's instructions and looked at George Orndorff's method. I've also
>looked at the method in the book "14 Years of The RV-ator". Has anyone
>used this method and what kind of results did you have? I was also
>thinking of a slight? modification to it by predrilling the skeleton so
>there will be pilot holes, then fitting the skins with the clamps over
>the outside as Van suggests, to get the proper dimension for the
>trailing edge. Start from the center of each side of the spar,
>clamping the skin to the rear spar and work outward. At the end and
>center of the spar, drill the skin and clecoe each corner to hold the
>trailing edge dimension as Van warns to keep a close eye on it. Then
>lift one side of the skin at a time and backdrill through the pilot
>holes and skin, putting in clecoes as I go. I'm open to ideas and
>suggestions.
I'd say No. You'd be lucky (or superhumanly accurate in your skeleton
construction) if all your pilot holes exactly matched all the holes in the
skin. If they don't you'll probably end up with either elongated holes or
stress in the skin.
FWIW, I just finished skinning my predrilled -6 HS, and had no problem with
getting things lined up sufficiently... a few of my holes weren't quite in
the centre of the ribs (front half of one root rib especially), but none
were out far enough to compromise edge distance.
Mark the centreline of the skeleton flanges, and use a Sharpie to put a dot
on the skeleton through the skin's predrilled hole. You'll soon see how well
things are lined up.
IMHO, I think that back-drilling in this case is a *bad* idea. Every hole
would be at a slight angle, so you would end up with the entire skin
slightly misaligned. . Don't forget you're going to dimple everything too.
This comment applies to either predrilled or undrilled skins.
Frank.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Calin Brabandt" <cwbraban(at)ichips.intel.com> |
Regarding fuel tanks fire hazard reduction:
> I think this is called 'explo-proof' or some such thing.
> A word of caution. DO NOT use this if you have a flop tube in your
> tank (for aerobatics).
It's called "Explosafe", if I remember correctly from my motorcycle
road racing days. It works very well in cars and bikes -- always
wondered why you never hear about it in aircraft. Maybe it was
the incompatability with flop tubes!
Cal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Actual Progress! |
Avoid enlarging the tooling holes to get nuts, etc. inadvertantly left
in the stabilizer. The inboard ones are used to verify alignment of
the chord line with the fuselage. I'd just drill an "inspection hole"
between the tooling holes.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Mortimore <terry.mortimore(at)sympatico.ca> |
kevin lane wrote:
>
> I was reading about a product that racers use in their fuel tanks, a
> scotch-brite-like mesh that makes the tank explosion proof. It uses 1%
> of the volume and costs about $1/gal. It said it could be fitted in
> anywhere you have a hand-sized hole. Has anyone know/used this?
I may regret saying this without looking up the article, but I believe
there was a problem with this material retaining moisture.
Terry RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WstcttPrss(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Advice needed to repair small crack in canopy |
Tyvek is a synthetic, water-proof, tear-proof paper substitute used by
printers. Probably its most familiar application is the large Fed-X
envelope. The least expensive way to get ahold of it is through a paper
distributor.
Jeff Carpenter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lsmith(at)coastalnet.com (Louis E. Smith Jr.) |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank brackets |
>A common mod is to add an .063 doubler to the inside of the rib at the
>inside of the inboard fuel tank nose rib. In fact I believe they are
>now shipping kits with a pre-cut piece to put there. My plans don't
>show this part, but I think some of the picture pages in the manual
>do, and I think it is even discussed in the manual. And newer
>plans/manuals may well show it.
>Randall Henderson, RV-6
>randall(at)edt.com
>http://www.edt.com/homewing
>
>
The kits do indeed now come with the .063 doubler for the inboard fuel tank
nose rib. I received my partial wing kit a couple of weeks ago and it was
included.
Louis Smith
RV-8 #80126
Flaps and ailerons completed, waiting on wing spar!
lsmith(at)coastalnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: 3m Tape info |
>Here is the info that I have so far....
>The product is labeled as follows:
>
>Scotch VHB
>4941F
>Conformable Acrylic Foam Tape
>
>The sample I have is a little thick (45 mils)
>
>I am still waitning on tech sheets and will post info when received.
>
>Final note.... I spoke with the 3m rep, slos a pilot who commented that
>it is very good at reducing oil canning. Also, after a cure time of 72
>hours the tape is stronger than rivits due to the total are it covers
>vs. rivits. Just info.........
Out of curiosity:
1. Will the tape stick to fibreglass? Perhaps this is a way to attach tips
etc without pop rivets?
2. Once it's stuck down, can you undo it? I mean, with rivets you can drill
them out. With this stuff stuck down, would your HS or VS or wing become an
unrepairable unit?
Frank.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: hvlp,squeezer |
>
> 2) rivet squeezer vs. pneumatic, advantages disadvantages?
>
Did you check the FAQ? There's a discussion in there, and also lots
about that in the archives.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Wanted: RV-6 plans |
I got the following from a reader of the "Home Wing Home Page"....
can anyone help? Send responses to his email, and NOT the rv-list,
as I don't think he's on the -list.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
------------- Begin Forwarded Message -------------
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:39:59 -0600 (CST)
From: "metal(at)netins.net" <Dave.Rice(at)netins.net>
Subject: Classified ad
Want plans for RV-6 to review and use in my classroom (highschool)
e-mail at metal(at)netins.net
------------- End Forwarded Message -------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
Would someone send me a phone number for a mail order supplier who
handles the 2" fiberglass tape like George uses to glass the canopy in
his video. Wicks and Aircraft Spruce are out of stock,
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg) |
>Regarding fuel tanks fire hazard reduction:
>
>> I think this is called 'explo-proof' or some such thing.
>It's called "Explosafe", if I remember correctly from my motorcycle
>road racing days. It works very well in cars and bikes -- always
>wondered why you never hear about it in aircraft. Maybe it was
>the incompatability with flop tubes!
I remember a article from the tech councelor, the explo-proof was in a
Pitts. Had been in there for a few (?) years, it was determined that it
had deteriorated and plugged the fuel lines, at the wrong time.
I talked to a racer buddy and he said the stuff was good but needed to be
relaced every couple of years, because it would breakdown into fragments and
could lodge in a fuel line or filter.
Doug
Doug Bloomberg
RV-6A (in the womb)
Denver, CO
dougb(at)mail.diac.com (home)
doug(at)boulder.vni.com (work)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: Seat cushion fabrication |
This is a MIME multipart message.
-------------------------------------------------_=_MIME-Boundary_=_
Here are a couple of drawings I made from Bingelis' article. One is a
sketch of each part, the other is an assembly drawing. They are in
Macintosh PICT format. Unfortunately for those of you with DOS/Windows
I'm not sure how you would read them unless a friendly Mac user could
print them for you.
Ken
RV6A Flying
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-------------------------------------------------_=_MIME-Boundary_=_--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg) |
| Subject: | Re: Advice needed to repair small crack in canopy |
At 9:38 AM 11/11/1996, Michael A. Pilla wrote:
>
>What I have is a a small crack, about 1 1/4 inches starting from the edge.
>I drilled a 1/8 inch hole at the end to stop the crack from spreading any
>farther.
>
>Now, do any of the group experts have a suggestion on how to "invisibly
>repair" this mess? I know that there are some great epoxy glues that the
>auto windshield (glass) chaps use, but would they work for plexiglass?
>
>Thanks, in advance.
>
>Mike Pilla
>From looking at the RV's in this area, the accepted method is to apply a
EAA Sticker of suitable size (small to large) over the crack.
I suppose some of the liquid glue from a plastic shop, I also found some at
the local wood/hardware store in the plexiglas section squirted in using a
hypodermic.
Doug
Doug Bloomberg
RV-6A (in the womb)
Denver, CO
dougb(at)mail.diac.com (home)
doug(at)boulder.vni.com (work)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Re: Lower Flap Push Rod End |
On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, J.Ken Hitchmough wrote:
* snip *
> recently by
> my EAA Chapter Tech Counselor. He recently inspected a new RV-4 and
> expressed to me his surprise at Van's use of studded 1/4" male rod end
> bearings (Aurora P/N CM-4MS) in the lower positions of the flap push
> tubes.
* snip *
I'm curious. What does 'studded' mean. Mine are male rod ends threaded
into an AL tube. I followed Van's directions on both RV-4's I've built
and have personally put 300 hrs between the two without a hint of a
problem.
Does anyone know if you can "overcome" the effect of a fully deployed
flap with ailerons?
Dan
dboudro(at)nmia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
| Subject: | Re: Actual Progress! |
RV>I have to admit I did the same thing on my 8.
RV>On the tip rib near the leading edge
RV>the flanges are cut relieved. I drilled out the rivets forward of these cut
RV>outs. Probably only four to six rivets. I then carefully bent the tip of
RV>the rib out. This allowed enough room to feed the bolt out from inside of
RV>the stab. Then simply bent the rib back in place and riveted.
This sounds like a good idea. The only thing I'd worry about is
weakening the tip of the rib where you bent it out and then back. Do you
feel like you caused any problems in this respect?
RV>Now let me tell you about leaving the bucking bar in the root end of the
RV>stab. Bad night.
Let me guess, you too are now an expert at drilling out rivets! :-) (If
not, give me a call, it's a talent I feel I've really developed lately.)
RV>Rick McBride
Rod Woodard
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
***LISTERS: Please include your e-mail address in posts to the list***
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
RV>2) rivet squeezer vs. pneumatic, advantages disadvantages?
Pnuematic is heavier and more expensive. (-) Pneumatic has less parts
moving around (no big handles) and might be a little easier to operate
than a hand squeezer depending on your technique. (+) Pneumatic is very
fast when you have to do a large number of essentially the same dimples
or the same rivets (+). Pneumatic probably takes a little longer to set
up because there isn't an adjustable feature in the yoke/rivet holder. I
just use washers and different heights of rivet sets. (-)
The bottom line, IMHO: You can buy a used Chicago Pneumatic squeezer for
about $250. At the end of your project you can probably sell it to
another user for about what you paid for it. If you can afford to be
without your $250 for the time you're building, I think it's a
worthwhile tool. I have both the pneumatic and the hand squeezer and
have _rarely_ used the hand squeezer... but I'm only on the HS.
Please understand that this is only my opinion. This question has been
booted around the list before (like when I asked the question 8 months
ago! :-)) It's kind of like the -6 vs. 6A argument... it all depends on
your perspective.
Best regards,
Rod Woodard
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
RV-8, HS riveted, moving on to VS soon.
*** Please include your e-mail address in posts to the rv-list***
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dann_Parks(at)KTEH.pbs.org (Dann Parks) |
| Subject: | Re: 3m Tape info |
Thanks for the info, Rick.
For those who haven't been following this. There has been some discussion
about using this adhesive material to attach the control surface skin
stiffeners. The possible advantages would be 1) a reduction in oil canning
potential because of stretching of skins during dimpling and riveting 2)
elimination of skin cracking around the trailing edge rivet 3) perfectly
smooth skins. This stuff would be used for the stiffeners ONLY everything
else would still be riveted.
There are obvious concerns about longevity and I would like to do some
environmental testing (albeit unscientific) and it might be a tad heavier.
There are not a lot of stress forces on the stiffeners and you could check
their adhesion by squeezing the surface. It sounds like this stuff sticks
pretty well -- high temperatures would be my concern. Worse case, you could
rebuild them.
There are a few of us seriously thinking about doing this and would like some
advice from the wise men of the list.
(someone mentioned that this had been discussed a year ago. I checked the
archives and found only the conversation of a month ago which was mostly
jokes about taping on the wings... ;^)
Thanks all,
Dann Parks
Sunnyvale, CA
dann_parks(at)kteh.pbs.org
starting RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
| Subject: | Re: 3m Tape info |
Frank van der Hulst wrote:
>
> >Here is the info that I have so far....
> >The product is labeled as follows:
> >
> >Scotch VHB
> >4941F
> >Conformable Acrylic Foam Tape
> >
> >The sample I have is a little thick (45 mils)
> >
> >I am still waitning on tech sheets and will post info when received.
> >
> >Final note.... I spoke with the 3m rep, slos a pilot who commented that
> >it is very good at reducing oil canning. Also, after a cure time of 72
> >hours the tape is stronger than rivits due to the total are it covers
> >vs. rivits. Just info.........
>
> Out of curiosity:
>
> 1. Will the tape stick to fibreglass? Perhaps this is a way to attach tips
> etc without pop rivets?
>
> 2. Once it's stuck down, can you undo it? I mean, with rivets you can drill
> them out. With this stuff stuck down, would your HS or VS or wing become an
> unrepairable unit?
>
> Frank.
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
> Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
> Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
> PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
> http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
According to the small insert in the box of tape
QUOTE: Tape will adhere to most clean, dry and well-unified
surfaces. Most porous or fibered materials, i.e., cement, wood,
will require sealing to provide a unified surface.
UNQUOTE
According to the rep from 3M, this stuff will not come off easily after
the "Dwell time". This is approx 72 hours depending on temperature.
More to follow when I get the data sheets....
Rick
--
Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
Rick Osgood
9200 Flying Cloud Dr.
Eden Prairie, MN 55347
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Advice needed to repair small crack in canopy |
> Tyvek is a synthetic, water-proof, tear-proof paper substitute used
> by printers. Probably its most familiar application is the large
> Fed-X envelope. The least expensive way to get ahold of it is through
> a paper distributor.
The material that was spoken of for fiberglassing is simply referred to as
Mat, I believe. It's a non-woven bat of fiberglass in no particular
arrangement that you work epoxy into and moosh into shape. It's very
flexible, and can take odd shapes, but not quite as strong as oriented fibers.
Tyvek is also the stuff they wrap around houses now under the siding, so you
can get huge rolls of it now if you want.
--
(Sorry Randall, no more room for the Yakko Warner quote)
Richard Chandler
RV-6: Garage bought, saving for tools and tail kit (Christmas?).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Mortimore <terry.mortimore(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: hvlp,squeezer |
uwwvax.uww.edu!fegg2251(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> A couple questions.
>
> 2) rivet squeezer vs. pneumatic, advantages disadvantages?
>
>
> wayne "vulture" f.
> rv-6 empenage
hi wayne: The first rivet squeezer I purchase was the 1 1/2" U.S. Tool
supply and I was pleased with it. I wanted a 3" so I ordered one from
U.S. tool, I was not happy with it and sent it back. I then ordered a 3"
from Avery tools, I am very pleased with it.
If you can only afford one I'd recommend a good quality 3" reach model.
As far as a pneumatic sqeezer is concerned if you can afford one, they
would be a blessing. My hands ached for 2 weeks after dippling all the
wing ribs.
Terry RV-6A .....wings done, waiting on the fuselage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian McShurley <bmcshurley(at)www.sfgate.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lower Flap Push Rod End |
Herman Dierks wrote:
>
> I had a local machine shop make my RV4 flap tubes out of stainless
> steel. The aluminum ones looked two weak to me.
> However, I have never heard of a problem.
> I was also told on the RV6 that if you use elect flaps you need to
> use the stainless tubes as the motor will strip the aluminum ones
> (this is second hand info).
>
> I don't understand what you are using on the end if you don't use the
> Aurora bearing. What is a 'capture washer'????
> Herman
> dieks(at)austin.ibm.com
> >
I will attempt to answer the last first; A capture washer is placed
over the bolt with a diameter large enough to prevent the outer frame of
the rod end from being passed over the head of the bolt should the rod
end's inner race fail. This causes the rod end to be held captive
between the attach point and the washer maintaining a mechanical linkup,
allbeit a loose one. This is much better than having the tube drop
free!!!
As for stainless steel; unless you use the proper structural stainless,
you are more likely to bend them than a properly formed aluminum one.
Stainless is actually a very soft material, and usually requires more
material to equal the same strength.
I personally would use 4130, properly corrosion protected before using
stainless. I would also prefer my rod ends to be in a double shear
arrangement rather than relying on the fastener to carry both shear and
tension loads.
Just my $.01 (the California tax man was here...)
Brian McShurley
bmcshurley @sfgate.com
S-51D / N514BM
Still cleaning garage / Awaiting kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: locked out of my airplane |
George advised:
<< you can make a small lifting handle out of 3/4 x 3/4 x .063 about 2 inch
long and tepered in front and put on both sides near the back of the canopy.
This will give you something thingto lift with . >>
Thanks, George. I was toying with the idea of installing an eye bolt there
but your idea seems more streamlined, less expensive and better-looking.
Bravo on all 3 counts. I'll drill out a few rivets on the canopy frame
sides and back-drill my "lift tabs" tomorrow night!
PS: thanks to the others who logged in with the same idea.
Bill Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Re: Lower Flap Push Rod End |
Asymmetric flap deployment can ruin your whole day.
>
> I wonder about the pushrods themselves. The material is aluminum tube with
> threads for the rod end CUT into the material. I thought that we use
> aircraft bolts because one of their features was rolled threads. Has anyone
> thought of using a heavier wall tube or different material?
>
> David Fried
>
I bought some 2024 tube for that reason. Same size but stronger alloy.
However 2024 also much more brittle. Aargh! I'm not sure if I'll use it
-may go bigger. Interesting these questions made the list -they've been
bugging me for some time. Both the rod end and the skinny tube with the
cut threads.
Scott
N4ZW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net> |
| Subject: | Re: locked out of my airplane |
> Still waiting to hear whether conventional wisdom says it's better to fair
> the gear legs on or off the airframe...
I would do it with them on the airplane. With the weight off the gear
(like it's flying). Misalignment of the gear leg fairings affects the
trim of the airplane.
Scott
N4ZW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lower Flap Push Rod End |
Herman Dierks wrote:
> I don't understand what you are using on the end if you don't use the
> Aurora bearing. What is a 'capture washer'????
I believe they are using the term to describe a large area washer used
alongside a rod end bearing to keep the linkage in question attached in
the event of a bearing failure. i.e. the 'ball' part leaves the
'housing' due to excessive wear, etc. A VERY good idea, and seen
commonly on throttle cable ends, etc. as well as all over the place on
helicopters. I always called 'em 'safety washers' -but that's my own
term.
Scott
N4ZW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
>Regarding fuel tanks fire hazard reduction:
>
>> I think this is called 'explo-proof' or some such thing.
>> A word of caution. DO NOT use this if you have a flop tube in your
>> tank (for aerobatics).
>
>It's called "Explosafe", if I remember correctly from my motorcycle
>road racing days. It works very well in cars and bikes -- always
>wondered why you never hear about it in aircraft. Maybe it was
>the incompatability with flop tubes!
>
>Cal
There was a problem with the "Explosafe" degrading into tiny little pieces
and plugging up filters. There may have been a water retention problem, as
well. One article that I read said that it worked but they recommended that
the material be replaced on a perodic basis. The original post on the
subject may be talking about a new product that accomplishes the same thing
as "Explosafe" without the drawbacks.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | The Smiths <kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lower Flap Push Rod End |
He said:" but think that something so easy to solve, should be."
'One who has one problem to solve has a fine day, kiss wife, be happy.
One with all problems to solve will make one sorry day, kick dog, drag
chin in dirt.' Wai Lee
Especially problems which aren't. Risk is the product of probability and
consequences. To get anything out of the shop into the market requires
decisions as to when better becomes good enough is. There is always a
"worst remaining problem." That's what continuous improvement is about.
The problem is that it is continuous.
Van has my aplause for improving as he goes. Look at detail and value
now compared to undrilled kits with untapered or undrilled spar
components.
Ken Smith RV6 still tail, with an oldie kit for wings...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | The Smiths <kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass tape |
http://www.cris.com/~Gougeon/
The above is the home page for Gougeon Brothers, who supply by phone
order everything you could ever want in the way of glass, carbon, epoxy,
filer, fairing compound, etc.
Jan Gougeon should be flying his RV4 by now...btw.
Ken Smith rv6 tail, kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com
>Would someone send me a phone number for a mail order supplier who
>handles the 2" fiberglass tape like George uses to glass the canopy in
>his video. Wicks and Aircraft Spruce are out of stock,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Re: Lower Flap Push Rod End |
> I wonder about the pushrods themselves. The material is aluminum tube
>with
> threads for the rod end CUT into the material. I thought that we use
> aircraft bolts because one of their features was rolled threads. Has
>anyone
> thought of using a heavier wall tube or different material?
Yup. I've thought about it. On one hand, I can have a friend make me a
pair of threaded pushrods from some aluminum rod in just a few minutes. On
the other hand, there are two or three thousand of these pushrods flying
without a problem.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
Trimming the canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
I wonder why this would be any stronger than just prosealing on your
stiffeners. I haven't worked with the stuff much but I understand that it
has bond strength which can be considered structural. I asked my IA about
this and he said that the biggest problem would be peel and if you riveted
the ends of the stiffeners down it would probably be much safer and work
but he wouldn't sign off on it.
-Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: KTEH.pbs.org!Dann_Parks(at)matronics.com
[SMTP:KTEH.pbs.org!Dann_Parks(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 1996 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: 3m Tape info
Thanks for the info, Rick.
For those who haven't been following this. There has been some discussion
about using this adhesive material to attach the control surface skin
stiffeners. The possible advantages would be 1) a reduction in oil canning
potential because of stretching of skins during dimpling and riveting 2)
elimination of skin cracking around the trailing edge rivet 3) perfectly
smooth skins. This stuff would be used for the stiffeners ONLY everything
else would still be riveted.
There are obvious concerns about longevity and I would like to do some
environmental testing (albeit unscientific) and it might be a tad heavier.
There are not a lot of stress forces on the stiffeners and you could check
their adhesion by squeezing the surface. It sounds like this stuff sticks
pretty well -- high temperatures would be my concern. Worse case, you
could
rebuild them.
There are a few of us seriously thinking about doing this and would like
some
advice from the wise men of the list.
(someone mentioned that this had been discussed a year ago. I checked the
archives and found only the conversation of a month ago which was mostly
jokes about taping on the wings... ;^)
Thanks all,
Dann Parks
Sunnyvale, CA
dann_parks(at)kteh.pbs.org
starting RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael A. Pilla" <pilla(at)exit109.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Advice needed to repair small crack in canopy |
>>From looking at the RV's in this area, the accepted method is to apply a
>EAA Sticker of suitable size (small to large) over the crack.
Now that's the best advice! I love it. :-)
Mike Pilla
RV4, #2866, still fiddling with the fit of the skirts on the canopy.
Michael Pilla
pilla(at)exit109.com
v: (908) 566-7604
f: (908) 566-7936
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lower Flap Push Rod End |
<< I don't understand what you are using on the end if you don't use the
Aurora bearing. What is a 'capture washer'????
Herman >>
Herman-
Perhaps I didn't get the idea across that the studded lower flap tube rod end
bearing (it attaches to the flap root) that Van's specifies does not lend
itself to the common practice of boxing in the rod bearing with large pattern
washers on both sides so that, if the bearing fails, the joint will not
separate completely (and you will hopefully be alive and able to land and
fix it).
E-mail me direct if still not clear.
Regards,
Gary VanRemortel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Re: Lower Flap Push Rod End |
<< I'm curious. What does 'studded' mean. Mine are male rod ends threaded
into an AL tube. I followed Van's directions on both RV-4's I've built
and have personally put 300 hrs between the two without a hint of a
problem.
Does anyone know if you can "overcome" the effect of a fully deployed
flap with ailerons?
Dan
dboudro(at)nmia.com >>
Jeez, I thought the original post was pretty clear. Apparently the Canadians
already are well aware of this issue. Good Job.
Dan-
By the way, it wasn't Ken's post, it was mine.
Look at your plans, people (for the RV-6A it is drawing #42). The lower of
the two flap link bearings is Aurora CM-4MS (the trailing S is for studded),
in other words, it has a 1/4-28 STUD staked into the rotating portion of the
bearing (you do not use a bolt).
Then look again at the link upper rod bearing. It is Aurora CM-4M (no S for
not studded). The upper bearing is captured on both sides by the geometry of
the flap torque tube and doesn't need capture washers. In other applications
where, if the bearing races should separate from the rod end (as in a
throttle cable attachment), catastrophic results could be expected, capture
washers (simply large OD washers on both sides of the rod end) are
traditionally installed as a backup against complete separation of a critical
linkage.
Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SteveRV6(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Horz Stab jig question |
On page 6-5, RV-6 manual is states that you should locate and mark the
positions for the brackets that will support the HS-603PP (rear spar). It
refers to figure 6-5 for distances. I have been unable to find a figure or
diagram, with the exception of the original drawing on 3PP that is useful,
and no figure 6-5.
Does it matter as long as the spar is stable and supported?? The book also
says use 3/16" bolts. Where do you get these? Home depot doesn't have them.
Once I can find 3/16" bolts, should the bolts be tightened down, ie I don't
want to bend the hinges, I think the idea is support and stability.
If you use the AN3-7A or 14A bolts that came with the HS, would you be afraid
of damaging the threads? Can you use the stop nuts? Can these stop nuts be
used over and over without damaging?
Last question. The 1/4" bolts that help stabilize the HS in the jig and
attached to the tip ribs ...... looks like oerndorf (sp?) drilled his
straight out of the 4x4, ie didn't use either method the manual suggests??
Thanks for your help. Not stupid, just ignorant.
Steve Smith, Austin, TX Rv-6 prepunched
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Re: Lower Flap Push Rod End |
In the unlikely event that a flap rod end bearing fails or the push tube
buckles, a split flap condition may occur. However, those with manual flaps
will get an immediate feed back that something is wrong and put the flaps
back up without even letting go of the handle. The electric flaps operate
very quickly, about five seconds from up to down. This too will give an
immediate feedback and allow time to retract them, especially since normal
proceedure is to put down only about 20 degrees of flaps on base leg and then
full flaps on final approach. I think that the ailerons could overcome a
full split flap condition and that the plane would be controlable. Half
flaps are limited to 110 MPH and full flaps, 100 MPH. At traffic pattern
altitude there would be plenty of altitude and airspeed to effect a recovery.
The rule we had when I was a test pilot in the Air Force was if something
goes wrong when you activate a control, immediately return it to the position
that it was in before the problem occurred. When you fly, pay attention to
what is happening and you will stay out of trouble. I have my Nomex
fireproof flying suit on in preparation for the flames about to come my way.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SteveRV6(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: hvlp,squeezer |
Wayne and Terry,
I am in the market for a squeezer. Do you think even with a prepunched kit
it is still worth getting?? I heard Action Air has good prices, but was
never able to get them on the phone. I know Avery's will be good. Does
anyone have a number for Action Air or comments about them?? They would
return calls, but we never got hooked up, and finally they quit returning
calls.
Steve Smith, RV-6, HS, prepunched
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | miphill(at)siue.edu (Michael R. Phillips) |
| Subject: | Re: locked out of my airplane |
>George advised:
>
><< you can make a small lifting handle out of 3/4 x 3/4 x .063 about 2 inch
> long and tepered in front and put on both sides near the back of the canopy.
> This will give you something thingto lift with . >>
>
>Thanks, George. I was toying with the idea of installing an eye bolt there
>but your idea seems more streamlined, less expensive and better-looking.
> Bravo on all 3 counts. I'll drill out a few rivets on the canopy frame
>sides and back-drill my "lift tabs" tomorrow night!
>
>PS: thanks to the others who logged in with the same idea.
>
>Bill Boyd
>
>Hey Bill,
In the interim, how about using one of those suction-cup dent pullers the
auto body guys use.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Olson <rolson(at)Capital.Net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Re: Lower Flap Push Rod End |
On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Dave Barnhart wrote:
> > I wonder about the pushrods themselves. The material is aluminum tube
> >with
> > threads for the rod end CUT into the material. I thought that we use
> > aircraft bolts because one of their features was rolled threads. Has
> >anyone
> > thought of using a heavier wall tube or different material?
*************************
Does anyone know if they did something different on these push rods
for the Air Beatle military use project? It seems they looked at a number
of differnt areas and modified because of their anticipated hard use.
Rich Olaon
Saratoga Springs, NY
rolson(at)capital.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lower Flap Push Rod End |
<328BC27D.6584(at)www.sfgate.com>
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
What about just doing a good pre-flight? Rod ends don't just fail
instantaneously...... Remember the KISS principle?
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>Herman Dierks wrote:
>>
>> I had a local machine shop make my RV4 flap tubes out of stainless
>> steel. The aluminum ones looked two weak to me.
>> However, I have never heard of a problem.
>> I was also told on the RV6 that if you use elect flaps you need to
>> use the stainless tubes as the motor will strip the aluminum ones
>> (this is second hand info).
>>
>> I don't understand what you are using on the end if you don't use the
>> Aurora bearing. What is a 'capture washer'????
>> Herman
>> dieks(at)austin.ibm.com
>> >
>
>
>I will attempt to answer the last first; A capture washer is placed
>over the bolt with a diameter large enough to prevent the outer frame
>of
>the rod end from being passed over the head of the bolt should the rod
>end's inner race fail. This causes the rod end to be held captive
>between the attach point and the washer maintaining a mechanical
>linkup,
>allbeit a loose one. This is much better than having the tube drop
>free!!!
>
>As for stainless steel; unless you use the proper structural
>stainless,
>you are more likely to bend them than a properly formed aluminum one.
>Stainless is actually a very soft material, and usually requires more
>material to equal the same strength.
>
>I personally would use 4130, properly corrosion protected before using
>stainless. I would also prefer my rod ends to be in a double shear
>arrangement rather than relying on the fastener to carry both shear
>and
>tension loads.
>
>Just my $.01 (the California tax man was here...)
>
>Brian McShurley
>bmcshurley @sfgate.com
>S-51D / N514BM
>Still cleaning garage / Awaiting kit
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass tape |
Chet,
try Alexander Aircraft 1-800-831-2949 thats where I got It from...George
Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Re: Lower Flap Push Rod End |
Does anyone know if they did something different on these push rods
for the Air Beatle military use project? It seems they looked at a
number
of differnt areas and modified because of their anticipated hard use.
Nothing special. They were exactly the sameas the drawings (at least
for the first 10 or so...don't know what happened after that)
Ken RV6A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | catbird(at)taylortel.com (TTC Carroll A. Bird) |
| Subject: | Re: Horz Stab jig question |
aol.com!SteveRV6(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> On page 6-5, RV-6 manual is states that you should locate and mark the
> positions for the brackets that will support the HS-603PP (rear spar). It
> refers to figure 6-5 for distances. I have been unable to find a figure or
> diagram, with the exception of the original drawing on 3PP that is useful,
> and no figure 6-5.
>
> Does it matter as long as the spar is stable and supported?? The book also
> says use 3/16" bolts. Where do you get these? Home depot doesn't have them.
> Once I can find 3/16" bolts, should the bolts be tightened down, ie I don't
> want to bend the hinges, I think the idea is support and stability.
>
> If you use the AN3-7A or 14A bolts that came with the HS, would you be afraid
> of damaging the threads? Can you use the stop nuts? Can these stop nuts be
> used over and over without damaging?
>
> Last question. The 1/4" bolts that help stabilize the HS in the jig and
> attached to the tip ribs ...... looks like oerndorf (sp?) drilled his
> straight out of the 4x4, ie didn't use either method the manual suggests??
>
> Thanks for your help. Not stupid, just ignorant.
>
> Steve Smith, Austin, TX Rv-6 prepunched
To the question about 3/16 bolts. 3/16 bolts is the same size as a
10/32 bolt. They are available at any good hardware store. When I was
building my wing spars I used them in the holes that were not to be
riveted.
I use 10/32 nuts on my aircraft bolts to hold things when I don't want
to fix them permanent. The nuts are much softer than the bolts, so I
don't think that it damages the bolts. At least, I cannot see any
deformity in them. Just DON"T forget and leave one of them in
permanently, they are not structural.
catbird(at)taylortel.com
Carroll Bird
Buffalo Gap, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
>
> It's called "Explosafe", if I remember correctly from my motorcycle
> road racing days. It works very well in cars and bikes -- always
> wondered why you never hear about it in aircraft. Maybe it was
> the incompatability with flop tubes!
>
> Cal
>
I remember reading that this stuff has a tendency to break-down after
a few years and cause clogs.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re:Gear leg fairings |
Someone inquired about fairing gear legs on or off airplane.
Fair legs on airplane with weight off legs. The fairings are literally
fixed trim tabs if mis-aligned.
Steve
Schmitz
RV4
202SS
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Re: Lower Flap Push Rod End |
Have about 550 hrs on my Rv4. Have not expierenced a flap rush rod
failure, however the flap handle to cross tube weld did fail at about 475
hrs. Failure occured as I deployed the second notch of flaps on the base
leg to final turn. The type failure I expierienced resulted in a
symmetric failure of both flaps at the same time, a go around, ( suddenly
you're too hot and too high) and a normal flaps up landing.
My point (if i have one) is that failure of the flap pushrod tube
threads, could happen at any time flaps are deployed or being deployed. In
either event it would be un-expected, and in a low altitude low airspeed
configuration. If the failure occurred during deployment hopefully one
would have the presence of mind , and time to simply retract the flaps. If
the parted pushrod didn't somehow jam one flap down. Could ailerons overcome
one flap down?
I don't know , but I'm dubious. If you've flown an RV you know how
responsive they are. It seems the airplane would roll away from the deployed
flap not now but Right now. Again not much altitude to work with.
Perhaps the answer is to closely monitor airspeed , as to not overstress
flap system during deployments, and to periodically repace the flap pushrod
tubes. Say every two three hundred hours?
Then again since I've never heard of this part failing in tension,
perhaps Van has already overdesigned it , and the cut threads are not a
concern?
Hope I have'nt abused the purpose of the list.
Steve
Schmitz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Matronics Web Page Update! |
aol.com!Cafgef(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> subject: super glue
>
> a little background on the stuff called super glue or crazyglue. It is a
> material made from Cyanoacrylate ester. The stuff that glues your fingers
> together in an instant. The stuff was actually used for a while be doctors
> to glue wounds together. Worked well because it devolves in water about the
> same time as the wound heals. Completely disappears in about six weeks.
> NOTE: it desolves in water over a period of time. Do not use super glue
> for anything that you want to stay together.
>
> Gene Francis
> RV-6A N23GF
> (not flying yet)
Gene, where did you get this info? First of all, super glue (or CA for
short), is a family of glues made from Cyanoacrylate ester base. I have
used industrial versions of this stuff for years in model airplanes; it
comes in several grades and is available from hobby shops everywhere.
Various manufacturers recommend various catalysers (known as kickers) to
speed up the curing of this glue as it is 'instant' only with extremely
close fitting surfaces. These kickers are often keytone based. By the
way, if you ever have difficulty getting the glue to set, try wicking
away the excess with a tissue while holding the parts together - it is
usually the excess glue that is preventing the bond.
The first time I glued my fingers together, I showed up at the
Emergency room (gluing fingers is an occupational hazard of using this
stuff, no matter how careful you are) and was told to leave it alone.
Sure enough, within a couple of hours, I was able to seperate my fingers
without losing skin. All traces of the glue were gone within 48 hours,
though I quickly replaced it with more. You could always tell the state
of my model fleet by looking at my hands.
Some notes about this stuff - it is extremely high tensile, but very
brittle. When cured, it is solvent resistant, but can be debonded from
an applied surface fairly easily. I have seen a friend's model airplane
retrieved from being lost in the woods for several months (7 or 8, as I
recall), and the airframe was still strong (though the wood was warped
and the whole had to be scrapped). I have also seen engine mounts fail
in short order because the engine oil had seeped into the wood and
caused the joints to debond.
I can't imagine this stuff being used on wounds, because it would not
bond long enough, and the glue itself would be a barrier to healing.
Perhaps you heard of some different version of this stuff. I'd be
interested in your source, because the more I learn about this stuff,
the more amazing it is.
PatK - RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
| Subject: | Re: hvlp,squeezer |
RV>Wayne and Terry,
RV> I am in the market for a squeezer. Do you think even with a prepunched ki
RV>it is still worth getting?? I heard Action Air has good prices, but was
RV>never able to get them on the phone. I know Avery's will be good. Does
RV>anyone have a number for Action Air or comments about them?? They would
RV>return calls, but we never got hooked up, and finally they quit returning
RV>calls.
RV>Steve Smith, RV-6, HS, prepunched
Hi Steve.
I ordered my used CP Squeezer from Action Air Parts and have no
complaints. The number I have for them is 810-364-5885. Please feel free
to contact me if you have any other questions.
Rod Woodard
RV-8 (HS finished, VS is next)
Loveland, Colorado
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
***LISTERS: Please include your e-mail address in posts to the list ***
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael A. Pilla" <pilla(at)exit109.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Re: Lower Flap Push Rod End |
> The rule we had when I was a test pilot in the Air Force was if something
>goes wrong when you activate a control, immediately return it to the position
>that it was in before the problem occurred. When you fly, pay attention to
>what is happening and you will stay out of trouble. I have my Nomex
>fireproof flying suit on in preparation for the flames about to come my way.
Jim, I'll echo your comment about undoing what you last did. I had a split
flap situation in a Commanche and I just raised the flaps, no big deal.
As a CFI, I teach that very point; if something you did causes a problem, then
undo it - it almost always caused the problem. Sure, think about what is
happening, but don't stew about it. I'll share the flames, but I don't have
a Nomex fireproof flying suit. :-)
Mike Pilla
Michael Pilla
pilla(at)exit109.com
v: (908) 566-7604
f: (908) 566-7936
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Horz Stab jig question |
aol.com!SteveRV6(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> On page 6-5, RV-6 manual is states that you should locate and mark the
> positions for the brackets that will support the HS-603PP (rear spar). It
> refers to figure 6-5 for distances. I have been unable to find a figure or
> diagram, with the exception of the original drawing on 3PP that is useful,
> and no figure 6-5.
Without my manual handy, can't tell you where this picture is. However,
use the spar as a guide and locate the brackets with the hinge brackets.
> Does it matter as long as the spar is stable and supported?? The book also
> says use 3/16" bolts. Where do you get these? Home depot doesn't have them.
> Once I can find 3/16" bolts, should the bolts be tightened down, ie I don't
> want to bend the hinges, I think the idea is support and stability.
I found bolts at a local ACE Hardware; but not until a later date, for
use on the wing spar. I used the bolts from the kit; tightened only a
turn or two onto the elastic of the stop nut. To answer the next
question; you won't hurt the nuts as long as they apply friction when
tightening. If they spin on by hand, then you need to replace them.
You can use these nuts many time before that happens.
> If you use the AN3-7A or 14A bolts that came with the HS, would you be afraid
> of damaging the threads? Can you use the stop nuts? Can these stop nuts be
> used over and over without damaging?
>
> Last question. The 1/4" bolts that help stabilize the HS in the jig and
> attached to the tip ribs ...... looks like oerndorf (sp?) drilled his
> straight out of the 4x4, ie didn't use either method the manual suggests??
Yes, he did. What's the question? :) Ok, I get it. Use whatever
method that suits you. I bought a 3 foot length of 1/4" threaded rod
and cut it into two pieces.. I drilled straight through the jig,
installed the rod with washers and nuts on both sides of the post and
rib. I bent the rod until the rib was aligned, then tightened all the
nuts and checked it again. I continued to check while completing the
stabilizer; it never moved. That's the important thing; it must hold
position.
> Thanks for your help. Not stupid, just ignorant.
>
> Steve Smith, Austin, TX Rv-6 prepunched
That's how we all learn. Good luck, Steve.
PatK - RV-6A - Gonna get back to the kit this weekend.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
| Subject: | Horz Stab jig question |
RV>On page 6-5, RV-6 manual is states that you should locate and mark the
RV>positions for the brackets that will support the HS-603PP (rear spar). It
RV>refers to figure 6-5 for distances. I have been unable to find a figure or
RV>diagram, with the exception of the original drawing on 3PP that is useful,
RV>and no figure 6-5.
I built my rear spar including the hinge attach points and then lined up
the jig support brackets by laying the spar on the jig. Seemed to work
Ok for me. As you said, the biggest concern is that the spar be stable
and supported. You don't want the brackets to cause any binding or
twist.
RV>The book also says use 3/16" bolts. Where do you get these?
RV> Once I can find 3/16" bolts, should the bolts be tightened down, ie I don't
RV>want to bend the hinges, I think the idea is support and stability.
I haven't even put nuts on the bolts. By the time you have the brackets
at the jig/hinge point and the all thread at the tips of the ribs and
the HS-614 clamped on your additional temporary center upright, you'll
have a pretty secure structure.
RV>If you use the AN3-7A or 14A bolts that came with the HS, would you be afrai
RV>of damaging the threads? Can you use the stop nuts? Can these stop nuts be
RV>used over and over without damaging?
I used a few bolts that came with the kit. So far I haven't damaged any
threads on the bolts. About the only thing I've done is scraped a little
of the gold coating off the bolts. If I think I've done too much
scratching, I'll just use some new bolts. A friend and I went together
on an AN hardware kit from Aircraft Spruce so I've got some spares
laying around.
RV>Last question. The 1/4" bolts that help stabilize the HS in the jig and
RV>attached to the tip ribs ...... looks like oerndorf (sp?) drilled his
RV>straight out of the 4x4, ie didn't use either method the manual suggests??
I just drilled straight through my 4 x 4's. The biggest challenge is
drilling the holes _straight_ through the 4 x 4's. You then should be
very careful to actually drop a string from the tip of the rib down to
the spar to make sure you are exactly perpendicular. If the threaded rod
isn't exactly right, you should be able to bend it around to make it
work. Again, I'm no expert, but so far, so good.
Keep up the good work
Rod Woodard
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
RV-8, Loveland, Colorado
***LISTERS: Please include your e-mail address in posts to the list ***
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | catbird(at)taylortel.com (TTC Carroll A. Bird) |
| Subject: | Re: hvlp,squeezer |
aol.com!SteveRV6(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Wayne and Terry,
>
> I am in the market for a squeezer. Do you think even with a prepunched kit
> it is still worth getting?? I heard Action Air has good prices, but was
> never able to get them on the phone. I know Avery's will be good. Does
> anyone have a number for Action Air or comments about them?? They would
> return calls, but we never got hooked up, and finally they quit returning
> calls.
>
> Steve Smith, RV-6, HS, prepunched
I am building an RV-4, empannage finished,Wings finished, fuselage being
skinned at present. Finish kit on order. I cannot imagine having done
all this without a squeezer-dimpler tool. I bought mine from Bob Avery
he has always treated me very well. I have a 1 1/4" head and a 3" for
the Tatco tool.
Carroll Bird
RV-4 #3919
Buffalo Gap, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Re: Lower Flap Push Rod End |
I have seen an RV-4 that was groundlooped, and in the process of sliding
backwards
through the buckwheat, the trailing edge of the flap caught the ground. The
resultant
impact ripped the flap pushrod AND attach bracket right out of the flap. The
flap was
destroyed, and the pushrod and bracket remained intact. Stronger than I
thought!
Bill Mahoney
Sherman, CT
RV-6
N747W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | catbird(at)taylortel.com (TTC Carroll A. Bird) |
In regards to the aluminum push rod I would like to express my humble
opinion.
Some one has expressed a concern about the threaded rod, and the
possibility of stripping these threads. The most pressure put on this
rod is when the flaps are being lowered. The rod is in compression with
a jam nut on both ends, I just can't see how theycould be stripped in
this condition. The rod could possibly be buckled, and I have no idea
how much pressure this would take, however I think if you kept the
airspeed within tolerences that this shouldent be a problem.
When the flaps are being raised we have the slipstream to assist the
raising of the flaps if we are flying, and just the weight of the flaps
if we are sitting still. In either case the rod is in tension and this
appears to me to be the only time that we could strip the threads from
the rod. When we put a steel nut on a bolt or rod end we have only
the thickness of the nut holding, about 3/16 inch. On a 32 thread-per
inch bolt this equates to about 6 threads holding. When we thread the
rod-end into the push rod it goes in about 1 inch which is approximately
5 times the number of threads than those with a steel nut.
Has any one ever measured the tension it would take to strip this many
threads from the rod, I haven't the equipment to do this with, but to do
it with the flap actuator handle you would probably have to stand up and
jump on it.
Sorry to take up so much space with this diatribe. Thanks for your time.
Carroll Bird
Buffalo Gap, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Timothy J. Etherington" <tjetheri(at)cca.rockwell.com> |
| Subject: | Re: hvlp,squeezer |
Wayne,
Hope you will have as musch fun building so far as I have. On the pneumatic
squeezer, If you can afford one get one. If you use one even once you will not
go back to any other method. For us rookies that have never riveted before it
makes VERY consistent work.
Tim Etherington
RV-6 emp. HS and VS done
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
>>From: aol.com!SteveRV6(at)matronics.com[SMTP:aol.com!SteveRV6(at)matronics.com]
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: hvlp,squeezer
>
>> I am in the market for a squeezer. Do you think even with a prepunched
>>kit
>it is still worth getting??
>
>>Steve Smith, RV-6, HS, prepunched
>
I had the chance to trying a pneumatic squeezer before I started my
prepunch tailkit, and knew it would be money well spent if I could find
a good used one. I did, and I wouldn't give it up now. The prepunched
kit does nothing that will lessen the benefits of a pneumatic squeezer
since you still have *all* the dimpling and riveting. After using it a
bit you get used to how many washers you need for what thicknesses, etc.
But after that little setup it's just pft pft pft pft pft down the
line, perfect uniform, and straight dimples or rivets. I also found
it's easier to rivet and dimple many things because you have one hand
free to hold parts.
Definitely money well spent.
>--------------------- cut here
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Mitch Faatz mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com San Jose, CA
>RV-6AQME N727MF (reserved)
Empennage control surfaces completed, ready to hang elevators and
rudder!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LairdOwens(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Continuous improvement |
>From Ken:
"Van has my aplause for improving as he goes. Look at detail and value
now compared to undrilled kits with untapered or undrilled spar
components.
Ken Smith RV6 still tail, with an oldie kit for wings..."
Hi all,
My sympathy to Ken for having an old wing kit;^) I bought an old unstarted
tail kit for my -6. Rivet layout wasn't that big of a deal with my experence
as a Design/Draftsman. It wasn't until I got one of the early "prepunched"
wing kits (mine didn't have tapered flanges) that I knew how much the kits
have improved. I really have to agree with Ken about the continuous
improvement at Van's (thanks Andy Hanna and everyone else there).
I just though I'd let the "lurkers" and "wannabe's" out there that Van's has
taken a ton of the tricky stuff and missed rivet holes out of the equation,
although there are still alot of things that can "get you". I'm sure glad
this list is around to help with those things :^)
Laird
riveting skins on wings after one year of work
LairdOwens(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net> |
| Subject: | Pnuematic Squeezer |
After using Mitch Faatz's pneumatic squeezer, I'm convinced I can't live
wothout one. Avery's has them for $335 but.....
does anyone know of a source for used pnuematic sqeezers? Preferrably
CP214.
You can respond personaaly to my email address.
ED Cole RV6A #24430 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Reeves <dreeves(at)metronet.com> |
| Subject: | Hear we go....no turning back! |
Hello,
I've ordered and received the Avery tools needed to build a RV-6, the compressor
is in place, the garage floor
is painted, I have permission from my wife to proceed, I flip through the preview
plans often, and will order
the empennage kit in 20 days or so. However, having never contributed to the list
I wanted my first submittion
to be a special one...so here goes.
Yesterday, November 14, 1996, at the age of 31 and with 43.8 hours total, I received
my Private Pilot License
in Denton (DTO), TX.
And now . . . . . . . I build.
Thank you for listening. My next post will be when I have the tail kit and have
a ligitimate question.
--
Doug Reeves - PP-ASEL (1.1 PIC) ;^)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net> |
Gang--
At Oshkosh this year, I bought a recondidtioned pneumatic squeezer.
Unfortunately, as with most of our tools, it came with no instructions.
I've goofed around with it a bit, but don't know if I'm using it
correctly. One question:
Do you hold it with the stationary die against the manufactured head and
let the moving die squeeze the rivet, or the other way around? Or does
it even matter?
--Don
RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pmbs(at)probe.att.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pnuematic Squeezer |
Me too.....
I'd like to know about sources for pneumatic squeezers and prices,
new as well as used.
There are probably a few others who would too judging from the number
of "newbies" I see on the list.
Thanks.
Paul Bilodeau
pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com
908-957-6611
P.S. Just Ordered Empennage Kit From Van's..... 8<}
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat cushion fabrication |
> Here are a couple of drawings I made from Bingelis' article. One is
> a sketch of each part, the other is an assembly drawing. They are
> in Macintosh PICT format. Unfortunately for those of you with DOS/
> Windows I'm not sure how you would read them unless a friendly Mac
> user could print them for you.
I could convert them to .gif easily enough (And they'd be much smaller I'd
wager). But I'm not so sure about sending binaries to the list. Perhaps if
there's an ftp site either on John Hovan's or Matt's site.
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
>>Do you hold it with the stationary die against the manufactured head and
>>let the moving die squeeze the rivet, or the other way around? Or does
>>it even matter?
>>
>>--Don RV-8
>
It's best to hold the stationary die against the rivet, since you've got
more control, but I do it the other way around when I have to with no
problems yet. It helps improve those fine motorskills of the thumb when
you are trying to geeeeeently advance the ram until contact is made, and
then blamo. If you don't have a "feathering" trigger, however, I don't
see how you could safely do it this way. You would have to hold the
stationary die against the rivet. Don't forget to keep the compressor
up around 80 PSI, and the ram develops full pressure right near the end
of the stroke.
--------------------- cut here
--------------------------------------------------------------
Mitch Faatz mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com San Jose, CA
RV-6AQME N727MF (reserved)
Hanging the elevators to the HS, fabricating the seats. Nice mix, eh?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 3m Tape info |
>I wonder why this would be any stronger than just prosealing on your
>stiffeners. I haven't worked with the stuff much but I understand that it
>has bond strength which can be considered structural. I asked my IA about
>this and he said that the biggest problem would be peel and if you riveted
>the ends of the stiffeners down it would probably be much safer and work
>but he wouldn't sign off on it.
Sign off? SIGN OFF?! We don't need no steenkeeng SIGN OFF!
Check six
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James K. Hurd" <hurd(at)riolink.com> |
| Subject: | Temperature Considerations |
I will be skinning RV6A tail section this winter. Ambient temperature
in my hangar will be 40-50F. Is this cold enough to cause problems?
Should I use a heat gun or something?
Please advise. Thanks.
Jim Hurd New Mexico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Mortimore <terry.mortimore(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Hear we go....no turning back! |
Doug Reeves wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I've ordered and received the Avery tools needed to build a RV-6, the compressor
is in place, the garage floor
> is painted, I have permission from my wife to proceed, I flip through the preview
plans often, and will order
> the empennage kit in 20 days or so. However, having never contributed to the
list I wanted my first submittion
> to be a special one...so here goes.
>
> Yesterday, November 14, 1996, at the age of 31 and with 43.8 hours total, I received
my Private Pilot License
> in Denton (DTO), TX.
>
> And now . . . . . . . I build.
>
> Thank you for listening. My next post will be when I have the tail kit and have
a ligitimate question.
>
> --
> Doug Reeves - PP-ASEL (1.1 PIC) ;^)
congratulations doug, you've already clear the biggest hurdle in your
upcoming project. Don't get in a rush and plan on this being a long
project and you'll do well.
terry, rv-6a, waiting on my fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | Wood Propellers / New Sensenich Metal Propeller for 180 HP |
1.) Has anybody heard any comments good or bad on ED STERBA wood propellers.
He charges $500 for a 5 lamination wood prop for a 180 HP Lycoming.
Also
2.) I called SENSENICH and they said they are seriously working on their 180
HP metal propeller. In two weeks, they will be offering the spacers for
their new prop for those who wish to continue working on their cowling
finish work. I asked them if they would have it ready to go by APRIL 97 and
they said no problem - that they would refund my money for the spacer if it
wasnt completed. The problem is that I will need a prop no later than that
and I am afraid if they slip I will be without a prop and not able to fly my
plane. I have been informed that it took them 18 months last time to build a
metal prop for the 160 HP. Does anybody know more than this, or have any
advice ?
Scott Johnson / Chicago
Project Status: Working on finishing kit, brand new 180HP on its way from VANS
!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
| Subject: | Pnuematic Squeezer |
RV>After using Mitch Faatz's pneumatic squeezer, I'm convinced I can't live
RV>wothout one. Avery's has them for $335 but.....
RV>does anyone know of a source for used pnuematic sqeezers? Preferrably
RV>CP214.
RV>You can respond personaaly to my email address.
RV>ED Cole RV6A #24430 Wings
Hello Ed,
I purchased my used CP 214 Squeezer from Action Air for $249.50. The
number I have from them is 810-364-5885. BTW, this is my very favorite
tool and I wouldn't want to build without it. It can be done, I just
wouldn't want to.
Re: responding personally... I would have, but my e-mail software does not
automatically provide me with your e-mail address. The only return address I
have is rv-list(at)matronics.com. I understand that I'm not the only -lister in
this situation. That's why in the FAQ's and List Rules request that all of us
include our e-mail addresses in our signatures.
Take care,
Rod Woodard
RV-8, HS done, working on VS; Loveland, Colorado
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Considerations |
>
> I will be skinning RV6A tail section this winter. Ambient temperature
> in my hangar will be 40-50F. Is this cold enough to cause problems?
> Should I use a heat gun or something?
>
> Please advise. Thanks.
>
> Jim Hurd New Mexico
Yes, you should use a heater of some sort. You'll find that your
hands work better and you will be more motivated to go out and work on
your project if the shop is warm.
OOoooohhh -- you meant, like, as far as the metal is concerned?
:-) :-) :-)
Forget about it. S'not gonna make a difference.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwoodard(at)lawyernet.com |
RV>Gang--
RV>At Oshkosh this year, I bought a recondidtioned pneumatic squeezer.
RV>Unfortunately, as with most of our tools, it came with no instructions.
RV>Do you hold it with the stationary die against the manufactured head and
RV>let the moving die squeeze the rivet, or the other way around? Or does
RV>it even matter?
RV>--Don
RV>RV-8
Hi Don,
I was in the same boat. My conclusion is that it doesn't really matter.
As long as you keep the things square to your rivet or the aluminum, it
shouldn't make a bit of difference. It seems easier to me to keep the
non-moving part on the manufactured side, but as you'll soon find out
(if you haven't already), this isn't always possible due to trying to
squeeze around flanges, etc.
Happy building,
Rod Woodard
RV-8; HS finished; VS in progress; Loveland, Colorado
RWoodard(at)lawyernet.com
***LISTERS: Please include your e-mail address in all posts to the list
***
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roy Burkhead" <snaproll(at)peaka.net> |
Don McNamara wrote:
-snip-
> Do you hold it with the stationary die against the manufactured head and
> let the moving die squeeze the rivet, or the other way around? Or does
> it even matter?
>
> --Don
> RV-8
I have a CP squeezer. I've used it both ways, dependin on what I needed to do.
IMHO the most important thing is to ensure the sets are centered on the rivet
before you hit the button. As long as you're making good rivets, you must be
doing it right.
Roy
RV-8 #80096
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Considerations |
>I will be skinning RV6A tail section this winter. Ambient temperature
>in my hangar will be 40-50F. Is this cold enough to cause problems?
>Should I use a heat gun or something?
>
>Please advise. Thanks.
>
>Jim Hurd New Mexico
>
>
>
Hey, one of our builders built his RV-4 in a horse barn. During the winter
the temperature was cold enough that he had to wear both insulated
long-johns and an insulated snow-mobile suite.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lower Flap Push Rod End |
Thanks for the several replys.
I have used 'capture washers' in a number of places on rod ends,
but I never knew what to call them.
I am probably not as concerned with the rod end 'popping' off of
the ball as I am with the small stud (that bolts into the flap)
failing. Given that none have failed yet I don't plan to
worry about it. I do think there is a better way to attach
the arm, as was suggested, doing it so that the bolt is in double
sheer would be better.
Also, for the instructor that commented about 'if you move a control
and there is a problem, then move it back'.
That is true, but the flaps may not fail when you put the flaps down
but may fail sometime later into the approach. Then it would take
some time to figure out what happened. Given that you have two
ailerons to help counteract one flap and the fact that the ailerons
are much farther out on the wing (a longer arm), I think the plane
should still be controlable. Some brave person could go out
and unhook one of the flaps from the control arm and 'wire' that
flap up. Then at altitude you could put on the 'one' flap and
see if you could control the airplane with the ailerons.
It might be fun to see how fast it would roll this way as you would
have a full span aileron on one side of the plane. It should roll
like crazy one way and hopefully roll very slowly the other way.
Herman
dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
>
> << I don't understand what you are using on the end if you don't use the
> Aurora bearing. What is a 'capture washer'????
> Herman >>
>
> Herman-
>
> Perhaps I didn't get the idea across that the studded lower flap tube rod end
> bearing (it attaches to the flap root) that Van's specifies does not lend
> itself to the common practice of boxing in the rod bearing with large pattern
> washers on both sides so that, if the bearing fails, the joint will not
> separate completely (and you will hopefully be alive and able to land and
> fix it).
>
> E-mail me direct if still not clear.
> Regards,
> Gary VanRemortel
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca (joehine) |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Considerations |
>>
>> I will be skinning RV6A tail section this winter. Ambient temperature
>> in my hangar will be 40-50F. Is this cold enough to cause problems?
>> Should I use a heat gun or something?
>>
>> Please advise. Thanks.
>>
>> Jim Hurd New Mexico
>
>Yes, you should use a heater of some sort. You'll find that your
>hands work better and you will be more motivated to go out and work on
>your project if the shop is warm.
>
>OOoooohhh -- you meant, like, as far as the metal is concerned?
>:-) :-) :-)
>
>Forget about it. S'not gonna make a difference.
>
>Randall Henderson, RV-6
>randall(at)edt.com
>http://www.edt.com/homewing
>
Jim, I agree with Randall, 50F is what I warm my garage up to in the
winter when I work on the aircraft. I was out today doing fiberglass
fairings at the top and bottom of the gear legs and it was only 55 degrees.
Fiberglass resin takes a little longer to set up but no problem.
I can't see any problem with metal work except your hands get cold handling
all the cold tools :-)
cheers
joe
joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca Comp. 9, Site 8, RR#4
506-452-1072 Home Fredericton, NB
506-452-3495 Work Canada, E3B 4X5
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca (joehine) |
| Subject: | Re: Matronics Web Page Update! |
>aol.com!Cafgef(at)matronics.com wrote:
>>
>> subject: super glue
>>
>> a little background on the stuff called super glue or crazyglue. It is a
>> material made from Cyanoacrylate ester. bunch of stuff deleted here
the more I learn about this stuff,
>the more amazing it is.
>
>PatK - RV-6A
Sorry everyone, this is way off topic but interesting. Pat, did you know
that CA is used in law inforcement in the development of fingerprints on
various surfaces. Plastics mainly. The exhibits are suspended in a
cabinate and crazy glue is heated with a low heat source along with a scorce
on humidity (jug of hot water) and the fumes from the glue polmerize on the
latent fingerprints.
Before this was discovered, prints were hard to develop on plastics but they
are one of the best surfaces with the use of crazy glue.
I apologise again for straying from subject. One application for RVs is
that if you used CA to glue anything inside and you used any amount of glue,
the next day you would have nice white fingerprints on the inside of your
canopy that would NOT come off.
Cheers
joe
joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca Comp. 9, Site 8, RR#4
506-452-1072 Home Fredericton, NB
506-452-3495 Work Canada, E3B 4X5
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MiDiBu <midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | primer, sorry but I can't help it... |
Hello all,
I've read all of the past 16 years of the RV-ATOR, thanks to the gentleman
on Luscombe Drive in New Mexico (what a neat address).
I'm still confused about primering the parts. I live in a fairly easy area
where primering is not a big thing (northern Alabama). I can work outside
with a positive flow air mask most of the time. Please follow...
I have read the archives. Thanks, Matt!
I'm watching the Orndorff tapes and it doesn't appear that he had any primer
on the parts that he was putting together. What am I missing here?
What I do know about aluminum is that is "self protecting" in that it forms
an oxide which is a grey coat which needs to be polished off before you take
the plane to Ottumwa, IA (sp?, it was a special place to go in the 60's
before Oshkosh, and the airplane was a PT-22 with the yellow and blue tail).
I mean, look at the American Airlines planes with the the shiny finish on
their planes. But all of that work is on the outside of the aircraft.
I'm inclined to use Zinc Chromate. I like the color and the texture. Just
for the inside parts. But for every part? And what about etching before the
primer sticks? What does etching really mean? Self etching primers?
I'm just a builder like ya'll, looking at the plans for the E-801PP skin,
Mike Weller RV 80187 (under construction)
midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com (preferred) or mike.weller(at)msfc.nasa.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
I have all of my antennas mounted in the rear of my fuselage. VOR/GS, LORAN,
TRANSPONDER, and COM. My question is, can all of the coax cables be bundled
to get up to the radios in the cockpit or should they be separated. I'm
fairly sure that the passive coax cables that come from the VOR/GS and the
LORAN can be run together but am not sure about the coax cables that transmit
a signal like the COM and TRANSPONDER. Thanks in advance for a response.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Considerations |
> I will be skinning RV6A tail section this winter. Ambient temperature
> in my hangar will be 40-50F. Is this cold enough to cause problems?
> Should I use a heat gun or something?
It's only a big issue if the skeleton and skins are drastically different
temperatures.
If you do the wing skins in that temperature, you might want to heat them.
The empennage skins are so small that their coefficient of thermal expansion,
as high as it is for aluminum, isn't high enough to make a difference.
A bigger problem is going to be cold hands and cold tools (too cold to
hold comfortably). If this isn't a problem for you, go for it.
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
14190 47th Ave N.
Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen) |
| Subject: | Re: Alternative Engines |
You wrote:
>As for alternatives to a Lycoming, I think the Belted Air Power engine
> is the only one right now that is showing any promise.
I beg to disagree. Ross's reduction gear has quite a history by now of
reliable service (Tracy Crook's RV4, the guy using his gyrocopter for
instruction and quite a few others). Of course I have to say this as
I've just taken delivery of a Ross reduction drive - very well make -
sturdy. This is for use on Mazda 13B rotary (from RX-7).
Finn
finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen) |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Considerations |
>> I will be skinning RV6A tail section this winter. Ambient as far
as the metal is concerned?
>:-) :-) :-)
>
>Forget about it. S'not gonna make a difference.
>
Really? I understand that one way of minimizing oilcanning is to heat
up skins prior to drilling/clocoing/riveting!
Finn
finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRoss10612(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | R-410 Rudder Brace |
While working on my RV-8 rudder, I had difficulty with the R-410 brace that
is supplied in the kit as a piece of c-channel with trimming lines drawn on
it. After trimming the part to fit, I found that there was insufficient metal
to rivet the brace to the lower R-404 rib and skin. Also, the bend lines on
R-410 were wrong, it was too loose a fit in the R-404 rib. The drawing 7PP
shows the R-410 brace being attached to the outside (bottom) of the R-405PD.
I spoke to Tom at Van's, and told him that the part would fit better if it
were attached to the inside (top) of the R-405PD. He said that was the way it
was supposed to be... Well, he looked at the drawing 7PP on the master set
and said that this was in error, the R-410 brace was supposed to be attached
to the top of R-405PD. So, a new R-410 is on the way. I think I'll just
fabricate one today as I have a 4 ft. brake and some .040 material on hand.
In retrospect, I should have made a cardboard template before cutting the
c-channel supplied to make the R-410. Has anyone else encountered this?
Jon Ross
RV80094
working on rudder.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass tape |
Alexander Aircraft has sold out to Aircraft Spruce East. They harldly have
anything in stock there. I think they just wanted to put Alexander out of
business.
rvbildr(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Alternative Engines |
One "alternative" worth watching is Superior's copy of the Lycoming
O-360.
They are developing a kit which will allow you to assemble a "Lyc O-360"
from Superior's parts, including Millenium cylinders and their own
crankcase, crankshaft, cam, and all other parts except the oil sump.
Don't know why not the sump - you have to get that on your own.
Talked to them last week and they will be test running for certification
very soon, and expect to have the kit available mid-97.
Cost hasn't been set yet, but he estimated we will save "about $6000"
compared to the cost of a new Lyc. 180 from Van's.
Anyone know more about it?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Considerations |
James K. Hurd wrote:
>
> I will be skinning RV6A tail section this winter. Ambient temperature
> in my hangar will be 40-50F. Is this cold enough to cause problems?
> Should I use a heat gun or something?
>
> Please advise. Thanks.
>
> Jim Hurd New Mexico
If structure and skin are the same temp it doesn't matter what that temp
is. Some folks like to heat the skins, though normally just the
large wing skins, because it can make them look tighter.
If you are going to heat skins, a heat gun may cause uneven heating which
may cause problems. See previous postings and newsletters. Best
article I've seen is in 2/93 RVATOR, reprinted in "14 Years of RVATOR".
A pad type heater is probably the best practical way to get uniform
heating. I can make you one if you want one. See my posting from about a
week ago for details.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:Gear leg fairings |
<< Someone inquired about fairing gear legs on or off airplane. >>
Someone was me, and the intent of my Q. was to determine whether there was an
advantage to working with the gear leg clamped in a bench vise as shown in
several of the construction photo's in Van's manual. It goes w/o saying that
the alignment would first be established and indexed on the gear leg before
it was removed from the airframe for fiberglassing, etc. The gear legs are
tricky to remove and install in the sockets, so I was wonderiing if the
easier access to the part was worth the hassle of fitting the legs so many
extra times. I know I can do this job sitting on my cold garage floor beside
the airframe and get results. I was just hoping to learn which was the
*easy* way.
Thanks again to all who weighed in with an opinion. At least I've decided to
go fiberglass rather than Aluminum.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A chocked WAY up in the air for gear work.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lower Flap Push Rod End |
<< Then again since I've never heard of this part failing in tension,
perhaps Van has already overdesigned it , and the cut threads are not a
concern? >>
Isn't this part in constant compression? Would not the slipstream return the
flap to neutral (very quickly) if the rod collapsed? Just wondering.
Bill Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flame-proof Nomex |
<< I'll share the flames, but I don't have
a Nomex fireproof flying suit. :-)
Mike Pilla >>
Does anyone out there need one- size 34 R?
I did a very foolish thing and ordered one from the CAP on sale despite
knowing I probably need a size 40 (they only had 2 sizes on sale) and sure
enough, I was singing soprano by the time I stuffed myself into it. I had to
have help getting it off of me! It's olive drab, genuine 1st quality GI
issue Nomex coverall with more velcro and pockets than Van's has rivets, but
you gotta be smaller than me to wear this for long. Lists for $125 in the
CAP warehouse catalog, yours for much less, if interested. Email me off list
please!!
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Matronics Web Page Update! |
<< I can't imagine this stuff being used on wounds, because it would not
bond long enough, and the glue itself would be a barrier to healing.
Perhaps you heard of some different version of this stuff. >>
Trust me, this stuff IS used in medicine as a tissue repair/wound closure
agent and has been used, for example, by neurosurgeons to close the covering
layer over the spinal cord after spinal surgery, way back in the early 80's
before FDA approval was ever given.. The doc who told me this said he used to
carry the stuff in and out of the operating room himself to leave behind no
evidence of his "experimental" technique. Cyanoacrylate is now formulated
specifically for laceration repair. Seems the stuff lets go about the time
the cut heals itself anyway... no stitches to take out.
If, like me, you get dry cracked hands during the winter and working with
hand tools on your RV only makes matters worse, leading to painful split
thumbs and fingertips, try this trick: Carefully apply a small "scab" of
Superglue over the split area and allow it to dry. Keeps grease and other
workshop hydrocarbons out of your flesh and reinforces the damaged skin to
prevent elongation of the crack (*NOTE: do NOT attempt to fix a split
fingertip by stop-drilling the crack; it hurts more than you would believe,
even with a #40 drill, and is not effective, despite success on plexiglas
cracks.)
Not exactly hard core RV discussion, but hopefully relevant to the
homebuilding community anyhow :^)
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Rozendaal <DougR(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Propellers / New Sensenich Metal Propeller for 180 HP |
Scott Johnson wrote:
>
> 1.) Has anybody heard any comments good or bad on ED STERBA wood propellers.
> He charges $500 for a 5 lamination wood prop for a 180 HP Lycoming.
>
> Also
>
> 2.) I called SENSENICH and they said they are seriously working on their 180
> HP metal propeller. In two weeks, they will be offering the spacers for
> their new prop for those who wish to continue working on their cowling
> finish work. I asked them if they would have it ready to go by APRIL 97 and
> they said no problem - that they would refund my money for the spacer if it
> wasnt completed. The problem is that I will need a prop no later than that
> and I am afraid if they slip I will be without a prop and not able to fly my
> plane. I have been informed that it took them 18 months last time to build a
> metal prop for the 160 HP. Does anybody know more than this, or have any
> advice ?
>
> Scott Johnson / Chicago
>
> Project Status: Working on finishing kit, brand new 180HP on its way from VANS
!
I have been to Ed's shop and flown behind a couple different props of
his. good guy, good work, good prop.
Dougr(at)netins.net
looking for a -4 project
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Considerations |
>>> I will be skinning RV6A tail section this winter. Ambient as far
>as the metal is concerned?
>>:-) :-) :-)
>>
>>Forget about it. S'not gonna make a difference.
>>
>
>Really? I understand that one way of minimizing oilcanning is to heat
>up skins prior to drilling/clocoing/riveting!
Sigh. Ok, lets talk about *reality*, not theory. (and even the *thoery*
really doesn't hold water).
1. The reality is that I have a friend who use the 'heat the skins' method
on one wing and not the other. You cannot tell the difference.
2. Even if there *was* a difference on the wing, the surfact area of the
empennage are so small that it would have no affect.
3. People talk about heating the skins. Well, if you are gonna heat the
skins, then you cannot avoid heating the underlying skeleton. The two are
going to expand and contract together. The taughtness of the skin is going
to be the same no matter what.
BEst Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
Trimming the canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SteveRV6(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Continuous improvement |
Laird,
That is so true about the pre-punched kits. But, I got a look at a QB this
week, and I am excited about ordering one to strap onto my tail kit when it's
complete. Definitely alot of time saved and I was impressed with the
quality.
Steve Smith, RV6, Austin, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roy Burkhead" <snaproll(at)peaka.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Antenna Wires |
aol.com!JamesCone(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> I have all of my antennas mounted in the rear of my fuselage. VOR/GS, LORAN,
> TRANSPONDER, and COM. My question is, can all of the coax cables be bundled
> to get up to the radios in the cockpit or should they be separated. I'm
> fairly sure that the passive coax cables that come from the VOR/GS and the
> LORAN can be run together but am not sure about the coax cables that transmit
> a signal like the COM and TRANSPONDER. Thanks in advance for a response.
>
> Jim Cone
> jamescone(at)aol.com
Coaxial cable consists of a center concudtor which carries the signal and a braided
outer conductor (shield) which is chasis-grounded. This makes coax very resistant
to
radiating or receiving electromagnetic energy. You should not have a problem with
"cross-talk" between your coax, especially considering the very low power levels
and
frequencies that the avionics transmits.
Most important to a good installation is that you don't over-bend, kink, or smash
the
coax. This will change the properties of the coax by changing the characteristic
impedence (Zo) at the damaged spot which will degrade the performance due to
reflections, and that you ensure your coax connectors are correctly built for the
same
reason.
Roy
RV-8 #80096 and x-Navy avionics tech/instructor of advanced electronics.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
>
>
><< I can't imagine this stuff being used on wounds, because it would not
> bond long enough, and the glue itself would be a barrier to healing.
> Perhaps you heard of some different version of this stuff. >>
>
>Trust me, this stuff IS used in medicine as a tissue repair/wound closure
>agent and has been used, for example, by neurosurgeons to close the covering
>layer over the spinal cord after spinal surgery, way back in the early 80's
>before FDA approval was ever given.......
Yikes. Here is a hint from someone who sews up ten or so lacerations a day
when not pounding rivets: SuperGlue is not the best thing to be cramming
into a wound. There is a type of glue that is being experimented with in
Canada to put skin together but is not here yet. I worked with another
doctor who was testing the use of superglue to seal lacerations and many
fell apart before they were properly healed. If used on a cut not properly
cleaned, infection is a big problem. "Don't try this at home." HOWEVER:
sealing the drying cracks in thumbs and fingers is effective if it is done
before the "cut" gets too deep.
Just a medical thought or two..........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce |
>Alexander Aircraft has sold out to Aircraft Spruce East. They harldly have
>anything in stock there. I think they just wanted to put Alexander out of
>business.
>rvbildr(at)juno.com
>
BINGO!!!! It's called cornering the market. I used to order as much as I
could from Alexander because I liked dealing with them and they seemed liked
the "small guy" in the market that cared if I got my 1032 nuts or not. Now,
another take-over and less competition and less service.
Ooops...this is an opinion...sorry to take up space.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wood Propellers / New Sensenich Metal Propeller |
for 180 HP
I asked them if they would have it ready to go by APRIL 97 and
>they said no problem - that they would refund my money for the spacer if it
>wasnt completed. The problem is that I will need a prop no later than
that.....
Hey Scott: If you are thinking about sticking with the metal prop (there
are definite advantages [wish they weren't RPM restricted where the
Lycomings are at best power]), go ahead and get the spacer and begin
installation of the engine and coweling. It is my experience that, unless
you are working full time on your airplane (oh lucky dog if you are), you
will have plenty of time to wait for the prop even if it isn't ready by
April 97 (which it probably won't be). It sounds like you are at the 90%
done 75% of the work left to do stage. My engine is completely installed
except for some small tidy-up work and the rest of the airplane is 95% done
and I am thinking April may be to soon to be thinking about test flying;
we'll see.
Michael
RV-4 232SQ...should be done by....oh....Thursday, I'd say..........
mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lower Flap Push Rod End |
> Isn't this part in constant compression? Would not the slipstream return
the
> flap to neutral (very quickly) if the rod collapsed? Just wondering.
That's the problem. It would return THAT flap to neutral. Not the other
one.
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David W.S. King" <KingD(at)direct.ca> |
>><< I can't imagine this stuff being used on wounds, because it would not
>> bond long enough, and the glue itself would be a barrier to healing.
>> Perhaps you heard of some different version of this stuff. >>
>>Trust me, this stuff IS used in medicine as a tissue repair/wound closure
>>agent and has been used, for example, by neurosurgeons to close the covering
>>layer over the spinal cord after spinal surgery, way back in the early 80's
>>before FDA approval was ever given.......
>
>Yikes. Here is a hint from someone who sews up ten or so lacerations a day
>when not pounding rivets: SuperGlue is not the best thing to be cramming
>into a wound. There is a type of glue that is being experimented with in
>Canada to put skin together but is not here yet. I worked with another
>doctor who was testing the use of superglue to seal lacerations and many
>fell apart before they were properly healed. If used on a cut not properly
>cleaned, infection is a big problem. "Don't try this at home." HOWEVER:
>sealing the drying cracks in thumbs and fingers is effective if it is done
>before the "cut" gets too deep.
If you are going to use this stuff to seal wounds, just rem you don't cram
it into the gash
like spackle. You pinch it together and apply it over the top. This gives
you a stitches like
glue joint (can't think how else you'd describe it, sim to butterfly
bandage) Depending on
how bad it is you can keep adding stitches to the point you have a sean, ie
the entire gash
is closed. You can't do it in one shot you have to pinch and glue in little
segments/stitches.
This believe it or not has been used to seal or stitche wounds since the
60's ie the Vietnam war.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MiDiBu <midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Re: Lower Flap Push Rod End |
>In the unlikely event that a flap rod end bearing fails or the push tube
>buckles, a split flap condition may occur.
snip
>I think that the ailerons could overcome a
>full split flap condition and that the plane would be controlable.
snip
>I have my Nomex
>fireproof flying suit on in preparation for the flames about to come my way.
>
>Jim Cone
>jamescone(at)aol.com
Jim and all,
No need for the Nomex. From my experience, and now I may need the asbestos
suit, the split flaps would be overcome by aileron and rudder. And as you
put it so well, put the flaps back up if they broke when you put them down.
I really do have a fear of something breaking that would make the plane
un-flyable. One of the BD-10s was lost because of a split flap
configuration. But that is a whole different matter. I flew for 20 years
with the "knowledge" that one of my original instructors gave me that "even
if the trim runs away, you can always overpower it", and he proceeded to put
the trim in the full down position. It was tough, but flyable. I assumed,
for a long time, that this was just part of good engineering practice in
aircraft design. I was wrong.
So, just from looking at the moment-arm of the RV, I would have to say that
a split flat configuration would be controllable.
But is there anybody who has tested it, or would like to.
Enquiring minds like to know.
Mike Weller RV 80187 (under construction)
midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com (preferred) or mike.weller(at)msfc.nasa.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce |
dimensional.com!mikel(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> >Alexander Aircraft has sold out to Aircraft Spruce East. They harldly have
> >anything in stock there. I think they just wanted to put Alexander out of
> >business.
> >rvbildr(at)juno.com
> >
> BINGO!!!! It's called cornering the market. I used to order as much as I
> could from Alexander because I liked dealing with them and they seemed liked
> the "small guy" in the market that cared if I got my 1032 nuts or not. Now,
> another take-over and less competition and less service.
>
> Ooops...this is an opinion...sorry to take up space.....
I agree, I was in aircraft spruce east last month with a big
list and an empty credit card. they had nothing I needed except
two bolts, and the guy there could not have cared less if I got
those or not. Then last week I wanted to order some 5/8 x 5/8 .016
angle, the lady on the phone said it was $5.50 per foot, I said
no way. ( over $100.00 for twenty feet ) I told her that price could
not be right, she said it was and take it or leave it.
I will not be back.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
On Wed, 11 Sep 1996 joe(at)iu28.arin.k12.pa.us wrote:
> Bob Nuckolls,
>
> We just read your excellent article in the November SPORT
> AVIATION on GPS receivers. You indicate the GPS 2000 handles
> speeds to over 200 knots. I was under the impression that the
> boater's versions updated very slowly and weren't as accurate at
> high speed. At Kitfox speeds is this of much concern? The
> Lowrance Airmap sells for $900. What appears to be a similar
> Eagle AccuMap Sport sells for $600. What's the difference?
Mark replies:
>>Not true. The boaters versions update every bit as fast as the aircraft
>>versions. I'm not familiar with the AccuMap, but I have an AccuNav Sport
>>($350) and though it doesn't have maps, it does have plotting and it works
>>great! I also have a King KLX135A GPS/COMM and if anything, my Eagle
>>updates a little bit faster. I think both have approx 1 second update
>>rate.
Mark
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Mark Crafts Melbourne FL
mcrafts@digital.net http://digital.net/~mcrafts
Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
> aol.com!JamesCone(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> I have all of my antennas mounted in the rear of my fuselage. VOR/GS, LORAN,
> TRANSPONDER, and COM. My question is, can all of the coax cables be bundled
> to get up to the radios in the cockpit or should they be separated. I'm
> fairly sure that the passive coax cables that come from the VOR/GS and the
> LORAN can be run together but am not sure about the coax cables that transmit
> a signal like the COM and TRANSPONDER. Thanks in advance for a response.
>
>> Roy answers:
>>Coaxial cable consists of a center concudtor which carries the signal and a
braided
>>outer conductor (shield) which is chasis-grounded. This makes coax very resistant
to
>>radiating or receiving electromagnetic energy. You should not have a problem
with
>>"cross-talk" between your coax, especially considering the very low power levels
and
>>frequencies that the avionics transmits.
>>Most important to a good installation is that you don't over-bend, kink, or
smash the
>>coax. This will change the properties of the coax by changing the characteristic
>>impedence (Zo) at the damaged spot which will degrade the performance due to
>>reflections, and that you ensure your coax connectors are correctly built for
the same
>>reason.
>>Roy
>>RV-8 #80096 and x-Navy avionics tech/instructor of advanced electronics.
I agree and would add the following observations: A number of builders
have experienced interaction between items of avioinics that transmit
(com, transponder, dme) and things that receive (com, vor) and indicate
(electronic instrumentation of all types). An almost STANDARD fix offered
by manufacturers of instruments is to replace all antenna feedlines with
double-shielded coax.
In my experience, when coax cables "talk" to each other and to other systems,
the problem lies with installation. My favorite connector (UG-88/U BNC and
its brothers and sisters) can be VERY frustrating for first time installers.
It's not uncommon for the outer conductor to be improperly captured by the
clamps causing the coax to become just another piece of wire as opposed to
the carefully controlled transmission line. Many people have experienced
successful elimination of interaction with double-shielded coax but I
suspect that the change had more to do with better installation of connectors
than from change of wire.
Ordinary, garden variety RG-58 coax has been used in tens of thousands of
airplanes for over 50 years. When and if undesireable interaction is
discovered, check the installation before jerking out the wire bundles.
One very common interaction in composite airplanse happens when the (1) comm
antenna is mounted too close to the panel and/or (2) installed over an inadequate
ground plane. I this case, (1) DIRECT radiation of susceptable systems occurs
right from the antenna -or- (2) the SWR is so high on the coax feedline that
its shielding qualities are negated.
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========oOOo=(_)=oOOo==========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lower Flap Push Rod End |
<< << Then again since I've never heard of this part failing in tension,
perhaps Van has already overdesigned it , and the cut threads are not a
concern? >>
Isn't this part in constant compression? Would not the slipstream return
the
flap to neutral (very quickly) if the rod collapsed? Just wondering. >>
Bill-
Yes the failed flap would tend to fall approximately in trail, but the
germaine questions are, which flap will fail first, and when? The answers
are: Yes, and close to the ground.
You folks do what you want. I know what I'm going to do (replace studded
lower rod end with standard rod end, spacer, and capture washers and make the
flap link out of 5/16" X .058" wall 4130 tube).
I could be mistaken (and flame me if you like), but I believe that some of
the abrupt force (which could break the flap torque tube and the links)
placed on the flap mechanism may be the result of "armstrong" actuation
(particularly for you guys with circumsized tubes) in lieu of a gentle linear
electric actuation.
Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce |
<328E786C.15CF(at)worldnet.att.net>
| From: | ab6a(at)juno.com (ALLAN E POMEROY) |
<worldnet.att.net!CRAIG-RV-4.@matronics.com> writes:
>dimensional.com!mikel(at)matronics.com wrote:
>>
>> >Alexander Aircraft has sold out to Aircraft Spruce East. They
>harldly have
>> >anything in stock there. I think they just wanted to put Alexander
>out of
>> >business.
>> >rvbildr(at)juno.com
>> >
>> BINGO!!!! It's called cornering the market. I used to order as
>much as I
>> could from Alexander because I liked dealing with them and they
>seemed liked
>> the "small guy" in the market that cared if I got my 1032 nuts or
>not. Now,
>> another take-over and less competition and less service.
>>
>> Ooops...this is an opinion...sorry to take up space.....
>
>
>I agree, I was in aircraft spruce east last month with a big
>list and an empty credit card. they had nothing I needed except
>two bolts, and the guy there could not have cared less if I got
>those or not. Then last week I wanted to order some 5/8 x 5/8 .016
>angle, the lady on the phone said it was $5.50 per foot, I said
>no way. ( over $100.00 for twenty feet ) I told her that price could
>not be right, she said it was and take it or leave it.
>I will not be back.
>
This lady I think was mixed up as to what you wanted. In my Aircraft
Spruce catalog, which is about 4 years old, they do show 5/8 x 5/8
angle, this is an extrusion with a thickness of 1/16", which is about
.062. Where you were looking for .016, that leads me to believe you were
not looking for extrusion material, but sheet that has been formed to an
angle. The price quoted then was $5.60 per foot for the extrusion angle.
Allan Pomeroy
AB6A(at)juno.com
About to rivet hor. stab.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Morristec(at)aol.com |
I am considering a NACA vent for the cabin ventilation. I have a concern
about getting water in the vent when flying in rain. Has anyone out there
with Van's NACA scoop installed had experience flying through rain with the
vent open? Does water come in the vent? A lot or a little? Please reply
directly to my Email address.
Thanks for the help,
Dan Morris
Morristec(at)aol.com
RV6- completing instrument panel.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ddickson(at)sisna.com |
| Subject: | Left elevator trim tab cut |
I sent this Email earlier but the addressing was wrong so I'm sending it again.
I am working on an older RV-6 empennage, not pre-punched. I'm about ready to start
building
the left elevator. The construction manual warns about how easy it is screw up
the trim tab
cut. I can see how it can be a problem because the instructions in the Construction
Manual
are not very clear. I am referring to drawings SK6-3, 5A and a drawing supplementing
SK6-3
which was included with the emp. kit.
There are two dimensions for the length of cut, 19 1/2" along and parallel to the
Trim Tab
mounting spar and another 19 5/8" parallel to the bend line.
Which dimension is correct(probably neither one)?
What tools should you use for making the lengthwise cut, the crosswise cut?
How do you go about cutting out the little folding tabs on the elevator?
Can you make the lengthwise cut 1/16" inside the Trim Tab Mouning spar and file
the elevator
skin down flush with the spar?
Should you cut from the inside of the skin or the outside?
Are there any "gotchas" I should look out for?
I would be grateful for any and all help I can get on this one.
-------------------------------------
Name: duane dickson Cortez, CO
E-mail: ddickson(at)sisna.com
-------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hear we go....no turning back! |
> Yesterday, November 14, 1996, at the age of 31 and with 43.8 hours total, I received
my Private Pilot License
> in Denton (DTO), TX.
>
> And now . . . . . . . I build.
>
> Thank you for listening. My next post will be when I have the tail kit and have
a ligitimate question.
>
> --
> Doug Reeves - PP-ASEL (1.1 PIC) ;^)
Cool! I think your first post was legitimate!
Congrats.
Welcome to the family.
Life's just too short not to go for the challenges that capture your
imagination. Everyone on this list knows this.
Scott
N4ZW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roy Burkhead" <snaproll(at)peaka.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Antenna Wires |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> > aol.com!JamesCone(at)matronics.com wrote:-snip-
> > My question is, can all of the coax cables be bundled
> > to get up to the radios in the cockpit or should they be separated.-snip-
> >> Roy answers:-snip-
> >>You should not have a problem with
> >>"cross-talk" between your coax, especially considering the very low power
levels and
> >>frequencies that the avionics transmits.
> >>Roy
> >>RV-8 #80096 and x-Navy avionics tech/instructor of advanced electronics.-snip-
> In my experience, when coax cables "talk" to each other and to other systems,
> the problem lies with installation. My favorite connector (UG-88/U BNC and
> its brothers and sisters) can be VERY frustrating for first time installers.
> Regards,
>
> Bob . . .
> AeroElectric Connection-snip-
I just had a thought about bundling not related to performance but rather to maintenance.
Murphy's Law would probably dictate that the specific coax you want to get to
for
troubleshooting/maintenance would be the most difficult to reach/separate from
the bundle.
For what it's worth...
Wish I was doin' avionics instead of banging empennage rivets...
Roy
RV-8 80096
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com> |
I have flown in everything from light drizzle to heavy downpours without any
significant problems. However, parked in the same conditions, some
water collected in the hoses and blew out with air flow, resulting in a
slight
annoyance.
Les Williams
lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com
tail complete on 2nd -6A
waiting on tip-up fastbuild
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of
aol.com!Morristec(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 1996 8:08 PM
Subject: RV-List: NACA vent
I am considering a NACA vent for the cabin ventilation. I have a concern
about getting water in the vent when flying in rain. Has anyone out there
with Van's NACA scoop installed had experience flying through rain with the
vent open? Does water come in the vent? A lot or a little? Please reply
directly to my Email address.
Thanks for the help,
Dan Morris
Morristec(at)aol.com
RV6- completing instrument panel.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg) |
| Subject: | Re: Hear we go....no turning back! |
>Hello,
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg) |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Considerations |
At 4:53 PM 11/15/96, James K. Hurd wrote:
>I will be skinning RV6A tail section this winter. Ambient temperature
>in my hangar will be 40-50F. Is this cold enough to cause problems?
>Should I use a heat gun or something?
>
>Please advise. Thanks.
>
>Jim Hurd New Mexico
I wouldn't advise using a heater on the skin for the tail. There isn't
enough structure to prevent twisting and warping when the skin cools down.
As to heating the skin, if you do it to the wing, which does make it tighter,
Van's old instructions seem to work best. Which are to use several, 3 or 4
heaters directed onto the skin and try to heat the whole sheet at once. A
lot of folks try to heat a localized area and it just doesn't give the
desired results.
I used a couple of step ladders to support the heaters and let them heat
the wing skins for 30 min or more. Make sure to wear a long sleeved
sweatshirt when
you do this as the alum gets really hot and touching the wings skin with
your skin can be exciting.
Doug
Doug Bloomberg
RV-6A (in the womb)
Denver, CO
dougb(at)mail.diac.com (home)
doug(at)boulder.vni.com (work)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dieck(at)apexcomm.net (Robert Dieck) |
| Subject: | RV8 Landing Gear Update |
Ok all you RV8 builders, Harmon Lange will be starting to make the first
sets of landing gear Dec 13th. He will be working out of his old shop in WI
because he doesn't have the right equip. in OR to make the flat gear.
Rumour is that there still having problems with drilling the spar strips and
caps!
If this keeps up you guys will be able to build your fuse. before the wings!
Bob
RV6a Fuse.
Robert/Tammie Dieck
Wausau WI USA
dieck(at)apexcomm.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dieck(at)apexcomm.net (Robert Dieck) |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce |
>dimensional.com!mikel(at)matronics.com wrote:
>>
>> >Alexander Aircraft has sold out to Aircraft Spruce East. They harldly have
>> >anything in stock there. I think they just wanted to put Alexander out of
>> >business.
>> >rvbildr(at)juno.com
>> >
>> BINGO!!!! It's called cornering the market. I used to order as much as I
>> could from Alexander because I liked dealing with them and they seemed liked
>> the "small guy" in the market that cared if I got my 1032 nuts or not. Now,
>> another take-over and less competition and less service.
>>
>> Ooops...this is an opinion...sorry to take up space.....
>
>
>I agree, I was in aircraft spruce east last month with a big
>list and an empty credit card. they had nothing I needed except
>two bolts, and the guy there could not have cared less if I got
>those or not. Then last week I wanted to order some 5/8 x 5/8 .016
>angle, the lady on the phone said it was $5.50 per foot, I said
>no way. ( over $100.00 for twenty feet ) I told her that price could
>not be right, she said it was and take it or leave it.
>I will not be back.
>
>
Every time I've tried to do business with Aircraft Spruce I've had a bad
experience!!!
And this includes just trying to order their catalog!!
At Oshkosh a few years back I discovered Freeman Aviation. This is a small
family run business (Mr or Mrs Freeman answer the phone most of the time)
with a small, simple and plain catalog. They have a small product line but
if you need something special they will go out of their way to get it for you.
OK that handles the service part, now for the real kicker!!!! They ship a
bill with the order! YOU PAY AFTER YOU GET THE PRODUCT!!! No credit cards
ect and no min. order. I asked them how they can have this kind of trust,
they told me that they have 1 person that their looking for. They are now
the first people I call for materials!
There still are some people out there that treat their customers with trust
and respect.
Freeman Aviation, Inc
26 Montgomery Dr
Griffin Georgia 30223
404-227-2602
Bob Dieck
RV6a Fuse.
Robert/Tammie Dieck
Wausau WI USA
dieck(at)apexcomm.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lower Flap Push Rod End |
The way I see it, if you were to restrict the flaps to the up position, then
actuate the flaps to fail something in the system, it would probably be the
actuator arm on the cross shaft ------- no split flap condition. All in all I
think the system is well designed and has protected us Dufuses quite a
while.
Ferdfly(at)aol.com
Fred LaForge RV-4
Airframe
nearly finished, no engine yet. $$$$$$$$
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce |
Anna Freeman is the sole proprietor of Freeman Av. Her husband died at
Sun-n-fun a few years ago. She is a very nice lady and tries her best to
satisfy her customers. She appreciates any business you can give her. I live
only a couple of miles from her and have known her for years. Mal
rvbildr(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Left elevator trim tab cut |
You wrote:
>
>I can see how it can be a problem because the instructions in the
>Construction Manual are not very clear. I am referring to drawings
>SK6-3, 5A and a drawing supplementing SK6-3 which was included with
>the emp. kit.
>
>There are two dimensions for the length of cut, 19 1/2" along and
>parallel to the Trim Tab mounting spar and another 19 5/8" parallel
>to the bend line. Which dimension is correct(probably neither one)?
Duane, the thing you *really* want to avoid screwing up is the original
cut-out of what will become the trim tab. The dimensions on the plans
are correct (were on mine) but I had to study them for a *long* time
to convince myself of that. This is in part due to the geometry and
in part due to the fact that there will be triangular fold-overs on
both the remaining elevator and later on the trim tab that will form
the surfaces between the outboard edge of the trim tab and edge of
the elevator cut-out adjacent to it.
>What tools should you use for making the lengthwise cut, the crosswise
>cut? How do you go about cutting out the little folding tabs on the
>elevator?
I used a Dremel tool with a very small cutoff wheel and worked *very*
slowly. I think you want to be pretty careful here and work slowly.
>Can you make the lengthwise cut 1/16" inside the Trim Tab Mouning spar
>and file the elevator skin down flush with the spar?
>Should you cut from the inside of the skin or the outside?
The trim tab does not take up the whole piece that you originally cut
out. There is certainly enough to file away 1/16 inch, but you don't
want to get carried away because there probably isn't more than about
1/4 inch 'slack' in some areas.
>Are there any "gotchas" I should look out for? I would be grateful for
>any and all help I can get on this one.
One 'gotcha' that I ran across was I tried to use a small bending brake
for the ends of the trim tab and really screwed it up. The good news
is new trim tab cutouts are really cheap from Van's. (Forget the
price, but I think it was less than $10.) I ended up using a seamer to
bend the tabs. The tab was wider than my seamer, but I would work one
end about 20 degrees, then the other and back and forth. This put a
very slight wave in the folded over end, but I used a bucking bar with
a sharp right angle, held it inside the tab and tapped it lightly with
a hammer. After pop riveting, they are perfectly flat.
>-------------------------------------
>Name: duane dickson Cortez, CO
>E-mail: ddickson(at)sisna.com
>-------------------------------------
Hope this helps a little bit.
Best regards,
Bill
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Building RV-6 | Reserv N97WC
Want an extra hour and a half of energy per day with Super Blue
Green products? Email for info or call 800-325-7544 Chicago
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | catbird(at)taylortel.com (TTC Carroll A. Bird) |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce |
Robert Dieck wrote:
>
> >dimensional.com!mikel(at)matronics.com wrote:
> >>
> >> >Alexander Aircraft has sold out to Aircraft Spruce East. They harldly have
> >> >anything in stock there. I think they just wanted to put Alexander out of
> >> >business.
> >> >rvbildr(at)juno.com
> >> >
> >> BINGO!!!! It's called cornering the market. I used to order as much as I
> >> could from Alexander because I liked dealing with them and they seemed liked
> >> the "small guy" in the market that cared if I got my 1032 nuts or not. Now,
> >> another take-over and less competition and less service.
> >>
> >> Ooops...this is an opinion...sorry to take up space.....
> >
> >
> >I agree, I was in aircraft spruce east last month with a big
> >list and an empty credit card. they had nothing I needed except
> >two bolts, and the guy there could not have cared less if I got
> >those or not. Then last week I wanted to order some 5/8 x 5/8 .016
> >angle, the lady on the phone said it was $5.50 per foot, I said
> >no way. ( over $100.00 for twenty feet ) I told her that price could
> >not be right, she said it was and take it or leave it.
> >I will not be back.
> >
> >
> Every time I've tried to do business with Aircraft Spruce I've had a bad
> experience!!!
> And this includes just trying to order their catalog!!
> At Oshkosh a few years back I discovered Freeman Aviation. This is a small
> family run business (Mr or Mrs Freeman answer the phone most of the time)
> with a small, simple and plain catalog. They have a small product line but
> if you need something special they will go out of their way to get it for you.
> OK that handles the service part, now for the real kicker!!!! They ship a
> bill with the order! YOU PAY AFTER YOU GET THE PRODUCT!!! No credit cards
> ect and no min. order. I asked them how they can have this kind of trust,
> they told me that they have 1 person that their looking for. They are now
> the first people I call for materials!
> There still are some people out there that treat their customers with trust
> and respect.
>
> Freeman Aviation, Inc
> 26 Montgomery Dr
> Griffin Georgia 30223
> 404-227-2602
>
> Bob Dieck
> RV6a Fuse.
>
> Robert/Tammie Dieck
> Wausau WI USA
> dieck(at)apexcomm.net
Thanks for this info I have been kinda ticked off at AS&S myself.
Carroll Bird
catbird(at)taylortel.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com (Stephen Paul Johnson) |
| Subject: | Re: R-410 Rudder Brace |
Jon wrote:
>
>While working on my RV-8 rudder, I had difficulty with the R-410 brace
>I spoke to Tom at Van's, and told him that the part would fit better
if it
>were attached to the inside (top) of the R-405PD. He said that was the
way it
>was supposed to be... Well, he looked at the drawing 7PP on the master
set
>and said that this was in error, the R-410 brace was supposed to be
attached
>to the top of R-405PD. So, a new R-410 is on the way.
This is very timely for me, as I am just about to start working on
fabricating the R-410. I was hoping to get some more info from those
who have finished their RV-8 empennage. I wonder what Tom said about
the error in the plans. Will this be an official correction to the
plans? Is either way acceptable?
At this point I will fabricate everything about 1/8" oversize and see
how it fits. By the way, are people drilling the 3/16" and 1/8" holes
at the tips of the R-405PD, or should these be drilled later in
assembly?
Steve Johnson
spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com
RV-8 #80121
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRoss10612(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: R-410 Rudder Brace |
Steve,
Tom said it was not the first of planned revision to the RV-8 plans.
Hopefully, with CAD drawings, revistion will be easy. The R-410 definately
goes on the top of R-405PD. As for the 3/16 & 1/8 holes, I did not ask, but
see no reason why you must drill them now. I will wait for mine to be drilled
later.
Timely, well, that's the idea about the RV List. Tom said that he gets a call
about this about once a month, but it was mainly RV-6 callers. The RV-6
drawing shows the R-410 on the top of R-405PD, I asked Tom to look at the
RV-8 master drawing, and he discovered the error.
Make a cardboard template, don't put too much faith in the lines drawn on the
c-channel Van's supplies with the kit. Work slowly, and you'll get it right.
I will use a lightening hole as depicted on the plans so as to use regular
(squeezed) rivets.
Best,
Jon Ross
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Bordelon <greg(at)brokersys.com> |
I need to punch one or more holes in my vertical fin rib (VS407). I need to
punch these holes to allow a corrosion inhibitor to flow from one rib bay
to other. Has anyone enlarged the tooling holes or added additional holes.
I know some where on the rib it's OK to add holes. I guess I could uses the
root rib as a go by.
I've been following the recent post on "HS inspection holes". Thanks
+++++++++++++++++++
Greg Bordelon
greg(at)brokersys.com
someday.....my other plane is gonna be an RV :-}
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dieck(at)apexcomm.net (Robert Dieck) |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce |
>Anna Freeman is the sole proprietor of Freeman Av. Her husband died at
>Sun-n-fun a few years ago. She is a very nice lady and tries her best to
>satisfy her customers. She appreciates any business you can give her. I live
>only a couple of miles from her and have known her for years. Mal
>rvbildr(at)juno.com
>
>
Sorry to hear about Mr Freeman. Guess this explains why I've been talking to
Mrs Freeman the last several times I've called. I met Mr Freeman at Oshkosh
aprox. 5 years ago and was impressed with the way he did business so that's
when I first gave them a try.
Bob
Robert/Tammie Dieck
Wausau WI USA
dieck(at)apexcomm.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
Well, here is the end of the UMA tach story. My advise is: If your are
using Slick or Bendix mags, DO NOT buy a UMA part # 19-506-11G. This is the
2.25 electric tach that Van's sells. It won't work.
Bill Benedict took this bull by the horns for me and tried one of their off
the shelf tachs on one of the factory airplanes. He was only able to get it
to read to 1000RPM before it went beserk. I was able to get mine up to about
2200. Other listers have had similar problems.
UMA *STILL* insists that they have never heard of this problem and it must be
due to the installation. They want me to send it back and wait for them to
take a look at it. Not too likely.
Well, Bill was very accomadating and agreed to send me an E.I. digital tach
instead and told me to send the UMA back at my convenience. I have to pay
the difference of course, but he already credited the amount from the UMA
even though I won't be sending it back for a week or so. Very impressive.
Hopefully, N427EM will see air under the tires this week!
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Horz Stab jig question |
>On page 6-5, RV-6 manual is states that you should locate and mark the
>positions for the brackets that will support the HS-603PP (rear spar). It
>refers to figure 6-5 for distances. I have been unable to find a figure or
>diagram, with the exception of the original drawing on 3PP that is useful,
>and no figure 6-5.
I don't have my plans here, but I do recall reading the distances somewhere
(maybe in Frank Justice's building notes?) However, it doesn't matter
much... as someone else suggested, just use the spar to find the right
places to put the brackets. Face some one way, and some the other so that
that spar can't move laterally. Note that the centre brackets need larger
holes than the outer brackets.
I spent a lot of time getting the brackets (I bought them from Avery's)
lined up exactly straight. Without any evidence for or against, I think this
time was probably well spent (as opposed to some of my other
over-enthusiastic lining-up and exactly-vertical efforts).
>Does it matter as long as the spar is stable and supported?? The book also
>says use 3/16" bolts. Where do you get these? Home depot doesn't have them.
Unbelievable! I can't imagine a hardware store without 3/16" bolts. Maybe
look for 3/16" machine screws (a machine screw is like a bolt with a round
slotted head, or a bolt is like a machine screw with a hex head) instead.
> Once I can find 3/16" bolts, should the bolts be tightened down, ie I don't
>want to bend the hinges, I think the idea is support and stability.
Yes.
>If you use the AN3-7A or 14A bolts that came with the HS, would you be afraid
>of damaging the threads?
I don't know. That was why I used the hardware store screws.
>Can you use the stop nuts? Can these stop nuts be
>used over and over without damaging?
Dunno. I bought hardware store nuts and washers too.
>Last question. The 1/4" bolts that help stabilize the HS in the jig and
>attached to the tip ribs ...... looks like oerndorf (sp?) drilled his
>straight out of the 4x4, ie didn't use either method the manual suggests??
This doesn't matter too much. You want to support the tip rib so that its
centreline is exactly vertical. How you attach the threaded rod to the jig
isn't critical. I have T-shaped brackets, with the threaded rod extending
from the base of the T. The cross-bar of the T is screwed to the upright of
the jig. I found I needed to bend the threaded rod round a bit to get it in
exactly the right place.
Frank.
Marton, NZ.
RV-6, VS skeleton in the jig.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Epoxy in the F607BLKHD, skin overlap joint? |
For what is is worth. I'm a big advocate of back drilling and riveting.
You could back drill a fuselage skeleton prior to exterior skin fitting.
And have great straight lines, optimim placing and perfect flange center
lines to rivet placement. Also you might just build much quicker than the
fit, trace, drill skin and re-fit and re-drill methods.
Also You could forget that 3" rivet spacing along the longeron/side skin
(all skins to longerons), only to later come back and drill every 1inch,
supposedly avoiding these previously placed rivets (you'd better be a good
shot here!) and do what I did.... That was to drill each one inch hole in
to longerons. Machine C/S the longeron, and dimple all skins after "easily
back drilling/transfering" all these holes into outer skins. Flip it out of
your fuselage jig with all holes held with a cleco.
Then later, where the longerons overlap into the "upper turtle deck
skin(s)", they will also dimpled.
I have used a drop of super glue in many areas to temporaily hold pieces
in place to drill. If required, it usually breaks apart easily.
After primering, full fitting, back drilling, deburring, skin over
lapping/mini flange turning down, dimpling (in that order), and refitting of
the F675 top (rear most) aft skin to the Bulkheads: F609, F608, F607, J
stiringers and longerons. I reinstalled it for the final time with a tiny
thread of some PC7 2 part epoxy, it was used sparingly only at/to fit and
hold the F675 top skin to the F607BLKHD. I 3/32nd clecoed and clecoe clamped
it 100%, and squeezed gingerly with pliars. After curring I then back
riveted it all on permantly, but did not rivet same epoxied joint yet.
I then fitted and back drilled the entire F674 upper, aft turtle deck skin.
What the epoxy did was to hold the F607BLKHD, F674 skin sturdily, to allow
back drilling. Rather than leaving this joint to be drilled all 3 skins at
once. I only had to fit the F675 skin on once, with the extra 1" trimmed
front canopy part trimmed, but no @ 2 3/16" trim on rear end as per plans
done until after back drilling.
Ready with nomex underware re:
1) friends don't....fly plastic in alum a/c....
2) corrosoin in epoxied joint, gap potential in same joint listed above....
3) weaking longerons with @ .030" deeper countersinkas described above....
4) Not germain topics....
5) primer .....eeek I used the word.....(BTW I 100% primed right out of the
crate prior to 1st cut, without removing and red ink markings,
merits&dis-advantages of same).
6) to cold in un-insulated garage, & to tired today, to build, thus 3 rags on
list today.
------------------------------------
Name: David McManmon Cicero, NY
E-mail: McManD(at)AOL.com
Project status: RV6, tip up, 0320H2AD, F/P. on the right side up fuselage,
floors, 5th point seat belt hookup, and rear aft top of canopy skin cover
ready for dimpling and installation.
-------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 5th point seat belt hookup point + Super Glue? |
Some time ago I asked for 5th point hook up information. Reply was it was
in the comming RVator issue........ so I waited......... and waited....
finally..... only to get a non descrip-picture of a 6 point hookup. From
that I hardly can tell which way is up, say nothing of a plan to follow.
Any other interest out there for my 5th point hook up plans? If so can we
compare notes, what did you do, are you planning to do? Generally, was it @
15" forward from the F605, rear spar bulkhead? E-mail direct if you like.
BTW... my method invloved super glue!!!!!!! I'll post another builder tip,
utilizing epoxies for I too am into adhesives, work and play.
AS NOTED IN PREVIOUS THREADS.....YES WATCH OUT FOR "BLOOMING"...
This is the drying MA, "super glue's" vapors that sink heavier than air,
slow to disapate, that raised the "Latent finger" prints that the Police labs
use. It also is a major rejection from many of my companies plastic
assemblies rejects. Do indeed watch out around your canopy, if you do use,
just be sure to use a fan (X-plo proof primer fan not required, sic) to move
air over the surface and vent out throughly!
Thanks in advance.
(yes... to cold in the garage today)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------
Name: David McManmon, Cicero NY
E-mail: McManD(at)AOL.com
Project status: RV6, tip up, 0320H2AD, F/P. on the right side up fuselage,
floors, 5th point seat belt hookup, and rear aft top of canopy skin cover
ready for dimpling and installation.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: L/elev trim cut+tools+1997 RV forum |
<< am working on an older RV-6 empennage, not pre-punched. >>I
Older, mine was too..... I gave a seminar on my completed tail at 2nd
annual RV forum in Oswego NY, Sept 1996. EAA chapter 486, (3 RV's flying out
here, and over 6 more in CNY area under construction) in which I'm a member,
and there is a 3rd planned for the 2nd weekend in September 1997. Mark your
calanders now!!! I'm told that Van's factory is planning representation
there some way!!!
<< What tools should you use for making the lengthwise cut, the crosswise
cut?>>
<>
I used a air powered cutoff grinder and 3" disc for cutting inboard from
trailing edge forward. Lenght wise cut, ....I found from Harbor Freight
(7/94, P/N 00539 for $7.99) and swear I use this cutter all the time!!! If
you can find this one I highly recommend. I have a "blue handle" nibbler.
It is not the same as the knotcher/nibbler! It has a cut which cuts
directly up and removes @ a .125" kerf, vith minimal edge distortion of both
sides of your cut. Thus saving both pieces. Then the Vixen file (now @
$1.5k, Avery tool purchaser, and swaer there great!!!) will flatten/flush off
edges to make it brake shear quality!
BTW: Harbor freight, 9/95 at $6.99, P/N 07356, for a swing straight or
90* adjustable pull head, Pop riveter (with 30, throw them away!!!) rivets
in a case..........has already had @ 50 cherry max rivets thru it. no sign
of breakage.....I understand many will not hold up to these...for $7 bucks it
was worth it.
<< How do you go about cutting out the little folding tabs on the elevator?>>
As above, be sure to drill end/corners prior to bending to avoid cracking. I
used a hand seamer to bend up and the wood "V" cuts removed from Van's
particle board jig supplied with kit, with cautiously/minor light tapping,
via rubber dead blow hammer forming.
<< Can you make the lengthwise cut 1/16" inside the Trim Tab Mouning spar and
file the elevator.
I believe I understand this question. The skins are all longer than need
be, and your trimming of the trim tab skin as above will leave you plenty of
left over material to build it to plans. Consider making a light card board
pattern first. I did cut long and Vixen file into proper shape.
<< Are there any "gotchas" I should look out for?
Keep in mind the continuation of the trailing edge line and the gap
parallelism as you bend these flanges into shape.
Well if you can not make the turned over flanged ends, do not give up yet
and order that new skin. Trim off the wrap over flanges and make 2 little
end ribs. Many of the tabs have these little tab ribs, and also the LH
elevator inboard, bend over flange, gets screwed up and replaced with a small
rib, salvaging this area.
Prior to fitting on piano hinge, have all bends and shaping done, with
the trailing edge to long, then cut/file into proper trailiing edge
allignment.
Also look in back issues of RVator for doubler reinforcement aththe trim
tab horn area, Enginering Change Order from factory.
Good luck
-------------------------------------
Name: David McManmon Cicero, NY
E-mail: McManD(at)AOL.com
Project status: RV6, tip up, 0320H2AD, F/P. on the right side up fuselage,
floors, 5th point seat belt hookup, and rear aft top of canopy skin cover
ready for dimpling and installation.
-------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Matronics Web Page Update! |
>
>I can't imagine this stuff being used on wounds, because it would not
>bond long enough, and the glue itself would be a barrier to healing.
>PatK - RV-6A
>
Hmmm...
This is off track but cyano-acrylate esters are widely used in surgery most
commonly in orthopaedics to cement new joints in place
Leo Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Constant Speed Prop |
I'm thinking about shopping for a used C/S prop for my 6A. What
information about a prop is necessary in order to match a C/S to my 0360
A1A from Vans.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS and appology |
> Bob Nuckolls,
>
> We just read your excellent article in the November SPORT
> AVIATION on GPS receivers. You indicate the GPS 2000 handles
> speeds to over 200 knots. I was under the impression that the
> boater's versions updated very slowly and weren't as accurate at
> high speed. At Kitfox speeds is this of much concern? The
> Lowrance Airmap sells for $900. What appears to be a similar
> Eagle AccuMap Sport sells for $600. What's the difference?
Mark replies:
>>Not true. The boaters versions update every bit as fast as the aircraft
>>versions. I'm not familiar with the AccuMap, but I have an AccuNav Sport
>>($350) and though it doesn't have maps, it does have plotting and it works
>>great! I also have a King KLX135A GPS/COMM and if anything, my Eagle
>>updates a little bit faster. I think both have approx 1 second update
>>rate.
Mark
Sorry about the "double post" on this item folks . . . I'd prepared
a file for appending my comments and then sent it without finishing
the job . . . a problem with working until 1 a.m.!!!
I've had a lot of e-mail, snail mail and phone traffice about the article.
I notice that many folk believe I'm recommending the GPS2000 as THE
receiver to buy . . quite the contrary. The intent of the article was
to open doors to all commers with low-end GPS products . . the GPS2000
just happend to be the first one I found and tried.
Early entries to the low-end GPS product line had some limitations for
displayed speed (only two digits in the display) or software limitations
that ASSUMED that nobody moving over 99 Kts would be interested in their
product. This technology and the commercial offerings are maturing
VERY rapidly. My suggestion is to check with your local marine and
outdoor recreational product suppliers. Pick ANY GPS product that
looks like it might be useful in your airplane and then buy it with
the proviso that you can return it for full refund if it doesn't work
for you.
If you're still building an airplane, forget the GPS shopping until
you've been liberated from your limited flight test area and then
go shoping. From the time I wrote the article until now, the GPS
2000 street price has droped $40. When you do try out a cheapie,
don't expect TOO much. Yes, it may drop out for a minute or two
after you execute a 90 degree turn pulling 2g's. It might fuss
about the number of satilites it can see if you don't figure out
a way to hold it up behind the windshield, etc. etc.
The point is that for a pitance in cash, you can probably put a
piece of hardware in you flight bag that will provide navigation
ability heretofore unheard of at 10 times the price. If anyone
finds something OTHER than the GPS2000 to be a useful cockpit
accessory, post it here and please let me know about it too.
This is where the "lists" can provide and exemplar service . . .
spreading the word on what works and what doesn't work.
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========oOOo=(_)=oOOo==========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | NACA vent & water problems |
>I have flown in everything from light drizzle to heavy downpours without any
>significant problems. However, parked in the same conditions, some
>water collected in the hoses and blew out with air flow, resulting in a
>slight annoyance.
>Les Williams lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com tail complete on 2nd -6A
I haven't flown through anything but very light rain and had no problems.
To solve the water collection problem while parked, I cover the NACA inlet
with some of that "static stick on" sun shade when I park the RV outside. A
strip of this same material will work well for sealing gaps in the canopy
and as a cover over the fuel caps.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | notes.UB.com!Mailer-Daemon(at)matronics.com (by way of Frank van der Hulst <notes.UB.com!Mailer-Daemon(at)matronics.com>) |
| Subject: | Re: Horz Stab jig question |
>On page 6-5, RV-6 manual is states that you should locate and mark the
>positions for the brackets that will support the HS-603PP (rear spar). It
>refers to figure 6-5 for distances. I have been unable to find a figure or
>diagram, with the exception of the original drawing on 3PP that is useful,
>and no figure 6-5.
I don't have my plans here, but I do recall reading the distances somewhere
(maybe in Frank Justice's building notes?) However, it doesn't matter
much... as someone else suggested, just use the spar to find the right
places to put the brackets. Face some one way, and some the other so that
that spar can't move laterally. Note that the centre brackets need larger
holes than the outer brackets.
I spent a lot of time getting the brackets (I bought them from Avery's)
lined up exactly straight. Without any evidence for or against, I think this
time was probably well spent (as opposed to some of my other
over-enthusiastic lining-up and exactly-vertical efforts).
>Does it matter as long as the spar is stable and supported?? The book also
>says use 3/16" bolts. Where do you get these? Home depot doesn't have them.
Unbelievable! I can't imagine a hardware store without 3/16" bolts. Maybe
look for 3/16" machine screws (a machine screw is like a bolt with a round
slotted head, or a bolt is like a machine screw with a hex head) instead.
> Once I can find 3/16" bolts, should the bolts be tightened down, ie I don't
>want to bend the hinges, I think the idea is support and stability.
Yes.
>If you use the AN3-7A or 14A bolts that came with the HS, would you be afraid
>of damaging the threads?
I don't know. That was why I used the hardware store screws.
>Can you use the stop nuts? Can these stop nuts be
>used over and over without damaging?
Dunno. I bought hardware store nuts and washers too.
>Last question. The 1/4" bolts that help stabilize the HS in the jig and
>attached to the tip ribs ...... looks like oerndorf (sp?) drilled his
>straight out of the 4x4, ie didn't use either method the manual suggests??
This doesn't matter too much. You want to support the tip rib so that its
centreline is exactly vertical. How you attach the threaded rod to the jig
isn't critical. I have T-shaped brackets, with the threaded rod extending
from the base of the T. The cross-bar of the T is screwed to the upright of
the jig. I found I needed to bend the threaded rod round a bit to get it in
exactly the right place.
Frank.
Marton, NZ.
RV-6, VS skeleton in the jig.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Re: Lower Flap Push Rod End |
MiDiBu wrote:
>
> >In the unlikely event that a flap rod end bearing fails or the push tube
> >buckles, a split flap condition may occur.
> snip
> >I think that the ailerons could overcome a
> >full split flap condition and that the plane would be controlable.
> snip
> >I have my Nomex
> >fireproof flying suit on in preparation for the flames about to come my way.
> >
> >Jim Cone
> >jamescone(at)aol.com
>
> Jim and all,
>
> No need for the Nomex. From my experience, and now I may need the asbestos
> suit, the split flaps would be overcome by aileron and rudder. And as you
> put it so well, put the flaps back up if they broke when you put them down.
>
> I really do have a fear of something breaking that would make the plane
> un-flyable. One of the BD-10s was lost because of a split flap
> configuration. But that is a whole different matter. I flew for 20 years
> with the "knowledge" that one of my original instructors gave me that "even
> if the trim runs away, you can always overpower it", and he proceeded to put
> the trim in the full down position. It was tough, but flyable. I assumed,
> for a long time, that this was just part of good engineering practice in
> aircraft design. I was wrong.
>
> So, just from looking at the moment-arm of the RV, I would have to say that
> a split flat configuration would be controllable.
>
> But is there anybody who has tested it, or would like to.
>
> Enquiring minds like to know.
>
> Mike Weller RV 80187 (under construction)
> midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com (preferred) or mike.weller(at)msfc.nasa.gov
Maybe one of you lucky guys who has a flying RV could just unhook one of
the flaps and go up high and find out what happens when the "good" one is
dropped at approach speed and power.
Bob Reiff, RV4 #2646 (still in my basement)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Arter <arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: R-410 Rudder Brace |
Steve, hi
I noticed the same thing, and installed it on the inside (top). There
wasn't any other way it could go if made like the plans. It's a good idea
to sneak up on the final size. You can always take more off, but it's
really hard super- glueing all those little chips back on.
I went ahead and drilled the holes, but watch your edge distance!
Phil #80005
arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu
>Jon wrote:
>>
>>While working on my RV-8 rudder, I had difficulty with the R-410 brace
>
>>I spoke to Tom at Van's, and told him that the part would fit better
>if it
>>were attached to the inside (top) of the R-405PD. He said that was the
>way it
>>was supposed to be... Well, he looked at the drawing 7PP on the master
>set
>>and said that this was in error, the R-410 brace was supposed to be
>attached
>>to the top of R-405PD. So, a new R-410 is on the way.
>
>This is very timely for me, as I am just about to start working on
>fabricating the R-410. I was hoping to get some more info from those
>who have finished their RV-8 empennage. I wonder what Tom said about
>the error in the plans. Will this be an official correction to the
>plans? Is either way acceptable?
>
>At this point I will fabricate everything about 1/8" oversize and see
>how it fits. By the way, are people drilling the 3/16" and 1/8" holes
>at the tips of the R-405PD, or should these be drilled later in
>assembly?
>
>Steve Johnson
>spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com
>RV-8 #80121
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce(good chatter) |
I called Aircraft Spruce last Monday, talked to a very nice, but busy man..
He took my order of over 25 different types of fittings, tubes, clamps,
drills. At each one he knew it was in stock off the computer, one part was
special order, which I expected.
He gave me the total cost, I gave him my credit card number, and he said
shipping would be that day, (it was about 8:00 A.M.) All the parts arrived
two days later via UPS, all were what I ordered (not necessarily what I
wanted, but anyone who has put on an motor understands that). The special
order part arrived Friday.
The price was a few bucks higher than Vans, but the same as Skybolt. The
service was just what I would expect.
That order was no different than the 50 or more I have given to them over the
last two airplanes. As a matter of fact, their service has gotten much
faster since the first order in about 1980. Try and buy something from a big
Aircraft supplies who would rather deal with Boing.
Sorry, but I hate to hear someone slamming a outfit that has been excellent
to me over the years.
Bruce Patton
San Luis Obispo, Ca
Hanging motor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Arter <arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Constant Speed Prop |
Chet, hi
You need something like an HC-C2YK/7666-2, a Mooney prop. But good luck
finding a used one. If you do, and they have an extra one, let me know
immediately. I am resigned to buying a new one.
Phil #80005 O-360, CS
arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu
>I'm thinking about shopping for a used C/S prop for my 6A. What
>information about a prop is necessary in order to match a C/S to my 0360
>A1A from Vans.
>--
>Chet Razer
>crazer(at)egyptian.net
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: Left elevator trim tab cut |
Duane:
>There are two dimensions for the length of cut, 19 1/2" along and parallel
>to the Trim Tab
>
>mounting spar and another 19 5/8" parallel to the bend line.
>Which dimension is correct?
They both are correct because they are measurments to different points.
The 19-5/8 is the measurement along the bend line. Really, that is the
important one. If you are going to forego the little folding tabs and
instead make a little rib to put there, then you would not use the 19-1/2
measurment at all.
>What tools should you use for making the lengthwise cut, the crosswise cut?
I used a pair of Malco shears. They do not have serrated jaws.
>How do you go about cutting out the little folding tabs on the elevator?
I made little ribs instead.
>Can you make the lengthwise cut 1/16" inside the Trim Tab Mouning spar and
>file the elevator skin down flush with the spar?
Sure. Nothing about this process requires a high level of precision.
>Should you cut from the inside of the skin or the outside?
I did it from the inside because SK6-3 is of the inside, and I drew my
cutting lines on the inside.
>Are there any "gotchas" I should look out for?
There are two:
1. Trimming the inboard end of the elevator skin (taking out the triangle
of material who's apex is 3-15/16 inch from the inboard end of the bend
line) BEFORE cutting out the trim tab. This causes you to spend $6 and a
few days while you order a new trim tab skin from Van's.
2. Failing to mark the inbaord end of the elevator for trimming prior to
cutting out the trim tab. Basically, you have to draw the triangle
mentioned in #1 above, then ignore it and cut out the trim tab. THEN trim
off what's left of the triangle.
>I would be grateful for any and all help I can get on this one.
I found it extremely helpful to mock up the trim tab out of posterboard,
particularly since I was closing the ends of the trim tab with little ribs
instead of trying to do it with fold-over tabs. When I had a mock-up that
fit, it was a simple matter to fabricate the real one.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
Trimming the canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: L/elev trim cut+tools+1997 RV forum |
> Also look in back issues of RVator for doubler reinforcement aththe trim
>tab horn area, Enginering Change Order from factory.
>
> Good luck
>
> -------------------------------------
>Name: David McManmon Cicero, NY
>E-mail: McManD(at)AOL.com
Could you share some source for this? It's the first time I've heard of it.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Prop/spinner clearance |
The construction manual recomends leaving 1/16-1/8" clearance between the
spinner and the prop. I obviously want the gap as small as practical, but is
1/16" sufficient? It seems awfully close.
I imagine the prop doesn't flex much (at all?) at the hub, but I thought I'd
get some opinions. Can the spinner flex toward the prop? I'm using a
Sensenich fixed-pitch metal prop.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce(good chatter) |
> The price was a few bucks higher than Vans, but the same as Skybolt. The
> service was just what I would expect.
>
> That order was no different than the 50 or more I have given to them over
> the
> last two airplanes.
I too, feel that ACS does a very good job considering the volume of
merchandise they ship. BTW, if you find a better price somewhere else, tell
them and they will at least meet, and usually beat it.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: L/elev trim tab horn ECO |
In a messages dated 96-11-17, we write:
Also look in back issues of RVator for doubler reinforcement at the trim
>tab horn area, Enginering Change Order from factory.
from:
>Name: David McManmon Cicero, NY
>E-mail: McManD(at)AOL.com
Could you share some source for this? It's the first time I've heard of it.
from:
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
Well you made me go in that dark and now much colder garage................
But of course to aid a felow RV'r ........................
Taken from June 1995 RVator, so here goes:
"a number of RV4 and RV6's have experienced cracking of the skin adjacent to
the actuator bracket at the root end of the trim tab.......caused by a lack
of continuity between the end web of the trim tab and its spar. Since the
accuator bracket is riveted to the end web and the hinge is riveted to the
spar, a twisting can occur which can eventually crack the skin."
"Install a doubler plate to tie the end web and spar together."
In continuing, what the ECO basically says, in my wording, for there is a
sketch which shows most of this, is you:
Use a 4" strip of 2024-T3 either .032" or .040" . It's width is same as
trim tab spar. Bend in center, to make a 2"X2" angle. Taper down one 2" end
to equal that of the pie shaped, folded over flange, trim tab web end.
Flyers, remove trim tab horn (accuator bracket) via drilling out rivets.
Sandwich the doubler under trim tab horn between folder flange, transfer
holes and pop rivet on. Also pop rivet other 2" strip to front face of trim
tab spar. Sketck uses @ 12, MD-42-BS pop rivets.
On new installation just place in position and drill durring final tab
assembly.
Flyers, "stop drill" any cracking on skins as spotted.
Enjoy!!
from:
Wish it said flying by my name......................
>Name: David McManmon RV6, fuselage up right, Cicero, NY
>E-mail: McManD(at)AOL.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J&K Originals <jgh(at)iavbbs.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS and appology |
Hey Bob, I, too, read and enjoyed your "Nailgun" article.
I don't think you meant to imply that the speed limitation on the
Mag2000 is 200 anything...it is actually according to the specs: "Max
velocity: 951 mph, 827 knots"
The "entry-level" Garmins do have the 103 mph speed limits although they
are also excellent "machines" for many of the same reasons you like the
Mag2000.
Sorry you didn't stop by our booth at Oshkosh. We sold many of the units
there and at Sun 'n' Fun and continue to sell them by mail order all
over the world!
Keep up the good work!
Kate at SkySports (1 800 AIR STUFF)(800 247 7883)
--
Friends don't let friends fly plastic airplanes.
Van's Air Force - Michigan Wing -
http://members.tripod.com/~6Alady/rvmi.html
Greater Flint Pilots'Association - http://iavbbs.com/jgh/gfpa.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | catbird(at)taylortel.com (TTC Carroll A. Bird) |
| Subject: | Re: L/elev trim cut+tools+1997 RV forum |
> Could you share some source for this? It's the first time I've heard of it.
> John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
> Stephenville TX
> johnd@our-town.com
It is in the June '95 RVAitor, page 14
Carroll Bird
Buffalo Gap TX
RV-4 #3919
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: primer, sorry but I can't help it... |
Mike ,
I used Vari Prime on all the parts of my airplane before they go together,
seems to work good....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JIM SCHMIDT <JIM.SCHMIDT(at)mail.mei.com> |
| Subject: | Wood Propellers / New Sensenich Metal Propeller for 180 HP |
-Reply
Ed Sterba is reputable person. I have heard that many people of very
pleased with his props. I pesonally know of at least two flying on RV's.
>>> Scott Johnson 11/15/96
06:09pm >>>
1.) Has anybody heard any comments good or bad on ED STERBA wood
propellers.
He charges $500 for a 5 lamination wood prop for a 180 HP Lycoming.
Also
2.) I called SENSENICH and they said they are seriously working on their
180
HP metal propeller. In two weeks, they will be offering the spacers for
their new prop for those who wish to continue working on their cowling
finish work. I asked them if they would have it ready to go by APRIL 97
and
they said no problem - that they would refund my money for the spacer if
it
wasnt completed. The problem is that I will need a prop no later than that
and I am afraid if they slip I will be without a prop and not able to fly my
plane. I have been informed that it took them 18 months last time to build a
metal prop for the 160 HP. Does anybody know more than this, or have
any
advice ?
Scott Johnson / Chicago
Project Status: Working on finishing kit, brand new 180HP on its way from
VANS !
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Re: Lower Flap Push Rod End |
<< Maybe one of you lucky guys who has a flying RV could just unhook one of
the flaps and go up high and find out what happens when the "good" one is
dropped at approach speed and power.
>>
Seems the MANUFACTURER would have already done this. Well, fellas?
In talking with Paul McReynolds, he told of a time when he flew a friends -4
w/ elec flaps, and accidentally dropped them all the way @ 160 indicated.
They stayed on, no damage. The flap system appears to be as overbuilt as the
rest of the bird.
Now, quit worrying, and get back to work.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Phillips <billphil(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Crankshafts in the RV-6A Vortec Conversion |
Many of the nay-sayers on automobile engine conversions got me wound up
this week about crankshafts as you all know. I talked to everyone I
could get my hands on about the relative merits of the cast nodular iron
crank vs. a forged crank. My final conversation at the Tree House
yesterday was with an engineer who owns an engine rebuild shop. He also
owns a Commanche and a Cessna 310. He=92s been helping us off and on for=
a year with welding and he painted our RV-6a. He sees about 8 to 10
engines each week for rebuilds and he warrants all his rebuilds for
100,000 miles. He=92s been running his shop for about 20 years. So, a
simple calculation shows that he=92s seen about 4000-5000 blown engines a=
year for 20 years, or about 100,000 engines. He told me that he is just
now starting to get the Vortec in for rebuilds. Over the past year or
so he=92s seen about 30 of them. I asked him how they failed. He sort o=
f
got a goofy look on his face and started unloading about how abusive the
general public is on engines. Evidently he gets engines that have gone
80 to 100 thousand miles without even one oil change. Virtually all of
his engines were destroyed by overheating , lack of lubricant or just
plain worn down dirty lubricant. He went on to tell me that he=92s never=
seen a broken crank on a Vortec although he=92s seen many on the GM-350. =
He said that the crank failures on the 350 usually resulted from
extremely over tightened accessory belts. He laughed when I expressed
concern over the cast-iron crank in our Vortec. His major comment was
that GM built these engines for the public and for extreme abuse. =
People start them and floor them while they=92re still cold. These are i=
n
vans that are driven by people who have no concept of what an engine is
or how to maintain it and he still never sees broken cranks or thrown
rods. Also, the journals on the Vortec have a larger diameter than the
350. This relates to more overlap between journals than the 350 has. If
you look at the rods for both engines you can see it with plain vision
when examining the rod-bearing. He went on to talk about the nodular
iron casting by saying that the nodular metal will withstand local
damage and over stressing perturbations without transmitting those to
the surrounding lattice. My understanding of what he said was that
forged metal is more crystalline in nature and a local over-strain of
the material will be more likely to result in transmitting that down the
lattice. =
Next, he got off on the abusive public again talking about how his
business tripled when full-service gas stations were abandoned. I guess
people just don=92t check their oil or coolant. They just go fill-er-up
and never look under the hood. So, GM has to design engines for people
like that, and they still go 100,000 miles or more. I asked him if he
would worry about flying behind the Vortec, and of course he laughed
again and said, "That engine was built to take a lot more than you old
farts will ever put to it. It had to be built for the stupid general
public. I=92ve never seen broken parts on that engine and they=92ve been=
out for over 10 years. It=92s such a good design it just hasn=92t been
breaking. All of our rebuilds are due to over heating or running out of
oil. If you look at the lubrication system it=92s excellent. I think G=
M
has the best lubrication engineers of all the big manufacturers. Plus
they use the 350 pump.", and then he asked me to take him for a ride. =
So, there you have one guy=92s opinion who sees thousands blown
engines. I asked him about the Ford engine too and he told me the
bottom end of the 3.8L is just a bullet-proof. I guess he has seen some
rebuilds due to the aluminum heads warping from overheating, (if I
caught that right). But, again it was due to abuse, not structural
failure during routine operation coupled with good maintenance.
My bottom line as one of the test pilots is that I=92m not going to worr=
y
about the crank or the rods. Today, I=92m actually more worried about th=
e
weather.
Bill Phillips
=46rom the Tree House at the OMABP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
| Subject: | Re: Left elevator trim tab cut |
>What tools should you use for making the lengthwise cut, the crosswise cut?
>How do you go about cutting out the little folding tabs on the elevator?
>-------------------------------------
>Name: duane dickson Cortez, CO
>E-mail: ddickson(at)sisna.com
>-------------------------------------
Duane,
I cant remember specifics about dimensions so I wont address that part of
your question.
I used a Dremel tool with a small abrasive cutoff wheel to seperate the
trim tab from the elevator. This worked very well as it removes a minimal
amount of material, gives a clean cut(if you have a steady hand), and doesnt
leave you with a curled edge like snips can.
I placed a piece of duct tape along the cut line and used it as a guide.
Make sure you follow the instructions as far as sequence of the cuts. This
part is not as hard to make as the instructions lead you to believe. Mine
came out beautiful. Just take your time.
BTW I have found that for small cuts on thin aluminum nothing beats a sharp
pair of sewing scissors. Just dont get caught by the wife while using them.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles H Fink <CHFINK(at)envc.sandia.gov> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank brackets, flap push rods, and capture washers |
Structural changes to aircraft designed by someone other than yourself =
should be approached cautiously. A change, no matter how simple, can have =
unforeseen effects and consequences. Before you decide to replace any =
structural element you should calculate the loads on the part in question =
and determine that the part to be replaced is in fact inadequate.
Capture washers. Note that for all the rod end bearings in the other =
flight controls Van uses some method to provide capture of the rod end =
should the bearing fail. Was the failure to use them on the flaps a =
oversight on Van*s part? I don*t think so. I think Van had his reasons and =
unless you know what those were or have analyzed the flap system yourself =
you may well end up with a part or system that is not as safe or reliable =
as the original design. Consider this, the Aurora CM-4MS is designed, =
tested, and manufactured for an installation that places the bearing stud =
in a bending mode. Aurora publishes the allowable loads that may be placed =
on their bearings which Van probably used when he selected this bearing. =
If you change to *standard* bearing and AN bolt with a standoff and =
capture washers you are placing the AN bolt in a bending mode (the bolt =
would be cantilevered off the flap). Most design manuals indicate AN bolts =
are intended for shear or axial loads (tension and compression) and advise =
against any application that will place the bolt in a bending mode. AN =
bolts are a relative high strength steel which does not perform well under =
bending loads. Should you use a bearing that has been designed and tested =
for the loading conditions or a *standard* bearing with a AN bolt used in =
a manner design manuals do not allow? Have you made the design safer by =
capturing a failed bearing or is there a greater chance of the AN bolt =
failing causing asymmetric flap deployment? Also consider the additional =
material that must be removed from the fuselage bottom and sides to allow =
clearance for the capture washers. How large can this hole be without =
compromising the strength of the fuselage in this area? I*ll stick with =
Van*s design.
Flap push rods. Also consider that under flight loads these tubes are in =
compression, failure would drive the threaded shaft of the rod end bearing =
into the tubes not pull them out. But before the bearing shaft is driven =
into the tube not only must the aluminum threads fail but the threads on =
the steel locking nut must fail also. (See Carroll Bird=27s posting) Here =
again I*ll change mine only if reliable calculations indicate the tube is =
inadequate.=20
The same goes for the fuel tank brackets. Unless someone is willing to do =
a thorough design analysis of the fuel tank system and develop a markedly =
better design from that analysis I*ll stick with Van. =20
Note I indicated these individual components are parts of systems. When a =
part is altered the designer must account for the effect that change has =
on the overall system. There was a very good article in one of the sport =
aviation magazines regarding making structural changes a while back. I =
subscribe to several and I don*t remember which magazine or date. The gist =
of the article was don*t make structural changes unless you absolutely =
know what you are doing. By strengthening one area you are altering the =
way loads are being distributed and you may end up with one part being =
stronger but the overall structure may be weaker.=20
Before I get severally flamed these are experimental aircraft and you may =
build them as you see fit. Van is a very capable engineer but not =
infallible, change to the plans and kits over the years bear this out =
which means there is still room for improvement in the RVs. I also know =
there will be no progress unless we keep developing better ways of =
skinning the cat. What I am saying is if you do contemplate a change =
thoroughly understand ALL the ramifications before you commit to it.
Some of the best advice I have seen on this thread is:
>>>>>>What about just doing a good pre-flight? Rod ends don=27t just fail =
instantaneously...... Remember the KISS principle? Fred Stucklen =
RV-6A N925RV <<<<<
>>>>>>Then again since I=27ve never heard of this part failing in tension, =
perhaps Van has already overdesigned it .... Steve Schmitz <<<<<<<
>>>>>The rule we had when I was a test pilot in the Air Force was if =
something goes wrong when you activate a control, immediately return it to =
the position that it was in before the problem occurred ...... Jim Cone =
<<<<<<
Charles Fink, RV-6 N548CF flying=20
chfink=40envc.sandia.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Schulte" <chris(at)ashtech.COM> |
mgoodwin(at)mv.us.adobe.com, tina(at)3do.com, RV-list(at)matronics.com,
sgallimo(at)cisco.com
| Subject: | Re: Santa Clara County Tax Increase |
Part of our business is in aviation and part of our
business is being threatened. You can help...
______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________
Subject: Santa Clara County Tax Increase
Tomorrow November 19th the County Board of Supervisors is expecting a
3 to 5 vote to close Reid Hillview Airport. This action will cost the
county tax payers millions of dollars since the county has been using
federal money from the airport to fund other projects. All the money
granted by the feds will have to be paid back!! The net result will
be an increase in property tax and / or other tax.
Reid Hillview is a money making airport both in the community and in
additional tax income the lose of this airport will be felt by
everyone in the valley. Call all five County Supervisors Today!
Attend the public meeting at 70 West Hedding on November 19th, 6:00pm
District 1 Mike Honda 299-4296
District 2 Blanco Alvarado 299-2040
District 3 Ron Gonzales 299-2443
District 4 Jim Beall 299-3924
District 5 Diane McKenna 299-3540
CALL NOW!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | csanchez(at)BayNetworks.com (Cheryl Sanchez) |
| Subject: | Engine tach. drive cover |
I am using an electronic tachometer for my 6A. Where
can I get a cover to go on the back of the cable drive on the
engine? I have looked in the aircraft spruce and Wicks catalogs
but did not find it.
Thanks.
Cheryl Sanchez
csanchez(at)world.std.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crankshafts in the RV-6A Vortec Conversion |
My understanding of what he said was that
> forged metal is more crystalline in nature and a local over-strain of
> the material will be more likely to result in transmitting that down the
> lattice.
Don't believe everything you hear, even if it's from an expert. Ask your
friend why GM's truck engines use a forged crank.
> Next, he got off on the abusive public again talking about how his
> business tripled when full-service gas stations were abandoned. I guess
> people just don=92t check their oil or coolant. They just go fill-er-up
> and never look under the hood. So, GM has to design engines for people
> like that, and they still go 100,000 miles or more.
GM has always designed to meet this problem. It's always been a problem.
I asked him if he
> would worry about flying behind the Vortec, and of course he laughed
> again and said, "That engine was built to take a lot more than you old
> farts will ever put to it.
Get ready for massive use of bandwidth to respond to this one.
>
> So, there you have one guy's opinion...
>
Yup.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine tach. drive cover |
>
> I am using an electronic tachometer for my 6A. Where
>can I get a cover to go on the back of the cable drive on the
>engine? I have looked in the aircraft spruce and Wicks catalogs
>but did not find it.
>
> Thanks.
>
>Cheryl Sanchez
>csanchez(at)world.std.com
>
>
I just purchased one from George Orndorff for $5. I think Avery carries
them also.
Scott Gesele N506RV
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Considerations |
> If you are going to heat skins, a heat gun may cause uneven heating
> which may cause problems. See previous postings and newsletters.
> Best article I've seen is in 2/93 RVATOR, reprinted in "14 Years of
> RVATOR".
>
> A pad type heater is probably the best practical way to get
> uniform heating. I can make you one if you want one. See my posting
> from about a week ago for details.
I got a copy of 16 years of the RVator last week (Great job!) and I remembered
the debate on the list from a while ago about heating wing skins. The idea
that uneven heating of the skins could cause even worse oilcanning and
distortion is something to consider. But I just had another thought.
Back when this was debated on the list, it was summer. People discussed ideas
like putting the skin out in the sun and such. If Jim Hurd is anticipating a
40-50 degree workshop, he's got a perfect opportunity to acheive a 30-40
degree differential and have even heating....
Store the skin in the living room until just prior to drilling.
(I wonder if the plastic coating slows down the rate of heat loss?)
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine tach. drive cover |
<< I am using an electronic tachometer for my 6A. Where
can I get a cover to go on the back of the cable drive on the
engine? I have looked in the aircraft spruce and Wicks catalogs
but did not find it.
Thanks.
Cheryl Sanchez >>
Cheryl-
Averys has the part you need, P/N 6346 Cost $3.00. A bargain.
-Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine tach. drive cover |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Cheryl,
Avery has one for the O-320 engine. Chech with him....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
(Cheryl Sanchez) writes:
>
> I am using an electronic tachometer for my 6A. Where
>can I get a cover to go on the back of the cable drive on the
>engine? I have looked in the aircraft spruce and Wicks catalogs
>but did not find it.
>
> Thanks.
>
>Cheryl Sanchez
>csanchez(at)world.std.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Insurance for Military pilots |
would you guys give me some feed-back on who you are insuring with.
Is USAA even a consideration in this area...thanks...John Lucas
________________________________________________________________________________
Need to ask a basic question before I do something dumb.
I'm in the process of preparing spars on a 6 for riveting. I've got
pre-drilled spars. After reading the plans (over and over and over) I can
see only 5 components that must be riveted to the assembly in addition to
what Van supplied all bolted together. These are the five 7 inch prices of
angle mounted beyond sta-68.75.
Is this right? I don't want to drill out rivets.
Jon Scholl
RV6 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)bala.HAC.COM (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Interior paint type Q. |
Guys,
I would like to hear from flying RVs what type/brand of paint they
used for interior surfaces ... in particular ...
How well has it held up to scrapes, dings etc.??
Did you paint a glossy finish?? .. or did you add flattener??
Would you use the same paint again, now it's been in service??
Have you had to touch up any of the paint? ... was it easy? ... did it look OK?
NOTE: the above questions for INTERIORS only!!
I was considering Imron (Yes, I have a HobbyAir sytem!), but have
been told that it might be somewhat easy to chip, and hard to touch-up.
I would like to evaluate any other alternatives before buying any
expen$ive paint, and found little reference to interior paints in the
archives.
Interested in any comments, either to the list or privately ..
... thanks
.... Gil (got to paint the inside some time soon) Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
RV6A, #20701, N64GA rsvd.
PS. note I did not ask about (ahem) primer, just the finish coat .... but,
since the P*&^%r subject is now mentioned, one local builder actually is
using DP40 epoxy primer as the interior finish coat.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: Constant Speed Prop |
>You need something like an HC-C2YK/7666-2, a Mooney prop. But good luck
>finding a used one. If you do, and they have an extra one, let me know
>immediately. I am resigned to buying a new one.
Actually, from looking at the prices in Trade-A-Plane, It appears to me
that a brand new Hartzell from Van's is not much more than a used one on
the open market.
The same appears to be true for Governors, by the way. Shocked at the way
the price of the Woodward governor has gone from $875 to $1200 in 15
months, I started looking for a used one. One of the prop shops I called
told me that his WHOLESALE price on that governor was $1700.
BEst Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
Trimming the canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Left elevator trim tab cut |
sisna.com!ddickson(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> I sent this Email earlier but the addressing was wrong so I'm sending it again.
>
> I am working on an older RV-6 empennage, not pre-punched. I'm about ready to
start building
>
> the left elevator. The construction manual warns about how easy it is screw
up the trim tab
>
> cut. I can see how it can be a problem because the instructions in the Construction
Manual
>
> are not very clear. I am referring to drawings SK6-3, 5A and a drawing supplementing
SK6-3
>
> which was included with the emp. kit.
>
> There are two dimensions for the length of cut, 19 1/2" along and parallel to
the Trim Tab
>
> mounting spar and another 19 5/8" parallel to the bend line.
> Which dimension is correct(probably neither one)?
> What tools should you use for making the lengthwise cut, the crosswise cut?
> How do you go about cutting out the little folding tabs on the elevator?
> Can you make the lengthwise cut 1/16" inside the Trim Tab Mouning spar and file
the elevator
>
> skin down flush with the spar?
> Should you cut from the inside of the skin or the outside?
> Are there any "gotchas" I should look out for?
>
> I would be grateful for any and all help I can get on this one.
> -------------------------------------
> Name: duane dickson Cortez, CO
> E-mail: ddickson(at)sisna.com
> -------------------------------------Duane,
I used a cut-off wheel using the thin Norton discs that Van's sells for
cutting the canopy. It will make very accurate cuts if you go slowly.
Don't forget which side of the line you want the kerf on! Make straight
cuts, forget about folding the sides, just make a couple of simple ribs
out of .032 material. This is what I did on mine and it came out pretty
nice. If you want more help, email me personally at
emcole(at)concentric.net.
Ed Cole RV6A #24430 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop/spinner clearance |
I think 1/4 inch is better.
There are several things to consider:
1) Your dynafocal mounts will sag over time, so the spinner will slump
down.
2) Under G loads, the engine will move around quite a bit.
I have the nice RV smile in my cowl where the 4 inch alternator pully
(from Bob Avery) chews into the cowl as you pull 4G's in a loop.
The spinner will be moving with the engine.
3) When you take the bottom cowl on and off, you need a little room
here. I glassed the top gear leg fairings onto my bottom cowl
(they are cut at the line of the rear of the cowl and the fuselage).
So I have to slip the bottom cowl gear fairing onto the gear leg
fairing and then push the front of the cowl behind the spinner and
up onto the front of the cylinders. This takes some flexing of
the cowl and 1/4 inch is not much to work with.
Also be advised that you can file off some of the excess overhang of
the fiberglass spinner that hangs behind the back bulkhead.
Do this after it is all mounted. I found the rear of my spinner
a little uneven. After filing it with the vixen file down to the
back edge of the rear bulkhead, it is now nice and straight.
Herman (RV4 60hrs)
dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
> The construction manual recomends leaving 1/16-1/8" clearance between the
> spinner and the prop. I obviously want the gap as small as practical, but is
> 1/16" sufficient? It seems awfully close.
>
> I imagine the prop doesn't flex much (at all?) at the hub, but I thought I'd
> get some opinions. Can the spinner flex toward the prop? I'm using a
> Sensenich fixed-pitch metal prop.
>
> Ed Bundy
> ebundy2620(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternative Engines] |
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 19:09:26 -0800
From: Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Alternative Engines
Robert Fritz wrote:
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> This is the first I've heard of Superior's copy of Lycoming. Any additional
> info. such as addresses?
>
> Thanks
>
> Bob Fritz
Phone no. for Superior Air Parts is 800-487-4884.
They advertise in Sport Aviation (Nov 96, pg 55) and other mags., and
they also display at Oshkosh. This summer they had a raw crankshaft
forging and crankcase casting on display. The Lyc. 180 kit was originally
planned for a mid-1996 availability, but the rep told me it was delayed
by the project to get the A-65 cylinders to market.
Perhaps if they got a bunch of calls from RV builders they'd step it up a
bit.
Don't be surprised if Van's sells the engine kits when they become
available - they already carry Superior's Millenium cylinder kits in
the RV parts & accessories catalog.
I've also wondered what effect, if any, there might be on the price of
new Lycomings now that Cessna is cranking out new 172's again (which use
a Lyc IO-360).
Bob Reiff, RV4 #2646
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Seat cushion fabrication |
boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.19598.emout08.mail.aol.com.848373965"
--PART.BOUNDARY.0.19598.emout08.mail.aol.com.848373965
> Here are a couple of drawings I made from Bingelis' article. One is a
> sketch of each part, the other is an assembly drawing. They are in
> Macintosh PICT format. Unfortunately for those of you with DOS/Windows
> I'm not sure how you would read them unless a friendly Mac user could
> print them for you.
> Ken
> RV6A Flying
Attached are the files converted to .GIF format, then mime encoded.
Tim Lewis
RV6AQ #60023
--PART.BOUNDARY.0.19598.emout08.mail.aol.com.848373965
name="SEATS.MME"
Subject: Seat1.gif
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=0D
-----
--PART.BOUNDARY.0.19598.emout08.mail.aol.com.848373965--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Considerations |
>that uneven heating of the skins could cause even worse oilcanning and
>distortion is something to consider. But I just had another thought.
>
To Any; Along this line, I know of one who places a saw horse under the
tip and the inside spar end, then adds weights to the center and then does
the wing skin. I realize that this would leave tension from root to tip,
but he does get nice tight skins. It doesn't flex much, but sorta like just
being a little bit pregnant--it does the intended job.
I didn't believe it until I saw the 'sag' when he had it up for skinning.
It convinced me that if I build again, I'll do it that way.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine tach. drive cover |
> I am using an electronic tachometer for my 6A. Where
> can I get a cover to go on the back of the cable drive on the
> engine? I have looked in the aircraft spruce and Wicks catalogs
> but did not find it.
I'd try a local FBO. When I had my (brand new, don't get me started on THAT)
engine violated for the Lycoming piston pin debacle I asked if they might
have a cover for the governor pad so I could take the CS prop stuff off. He
handed me a huge box that had all kinds of used stuff in it and told me to
have a look. It had tons of block off plates, tubes, covers etc that were
removed when installing stuff on the engine.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lower Flap Link Rod End Bearing |
Because of you true believers out there, on behalf of the RV-List, I spoke
today with Harvey Sturkel of Aurora Bearing (630-859-2030) regarding the use
of the CM-4MS studded rod end bearing in our flap actuator mechanisms.
Please don't deluge him with calls.
He said that he could not recommend the CM-4MS because the stud is only made
of low alloy steel of 70,000 PSI tensile strength typical (for reference,
normal AN4 bolts have a tensile strength of 125,000 PSI minimum). Since the
load is acting in single shear, the AN4 spec says that an alloy steel bolt is
good for 3,680 lbs rated strength. I agree that the stud is probably still
stronger than it needs to be, but it is clear that the AN4 fastener is
considerably stronger and more resistant to bending stresses than is the stud
which is not really rated as a structural fastening.
Since the same AN fastener is used on the top end of the flap link, I find it
difficult to believe that Van (in all his wisdom) wanted the bottom
attachment to break first ;^).
Further, Mr. Sturkel agreed that the inability to use captivating washers
with the studded bearing makes it even more undesirable. He recommended
using the standard CM-4M (non studded bearing) with an AN bolt and
captivating washers, because although these bearings seldom separate, you'd
never want to bet your life on it.
Regards,
Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Insurance for Military pilots |
At 10:34 PM 11/18/96 GMT, you wrote:
> would you guys give me some feed-back on who you are insuring with.
>Is USAA even a consideration in this area...thanks...John Lucas
>
>
John; I did have mine with USAA, and then AVEMCO came out with the
discount for EAA members. Net results was 15.00/year savings. I will go
back to USAA this next year unless the BIG discount is still on.
Incidentally, it is a subsidiary of USAA, not the parent firm, but still the
excellent name and service.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Interior paint type Q. |
> I would like to hear from flying RVs what type/brand of paint they
>used for interior surfaces ... in particular ...
>How well has it held up to scrapes, dings etc.??
>Did you paint a glossy finish?? .. or did you add flattener??
>Would you use the same paint again, now it's been in service??
>Have you had to touch up any of the paint? ... was it easy? ... did it look OK?
>NOTE: the above questions for INTERIORS only!!
> I was considering Imron (Yes, I have a HobbyAir sytem!), but have
>been told that it might be somewhat easy to chip, and hard to touch-up.
> I would like to evaluate any other alternatives before buying any
>expen$ive paint, and found little reference to interior paints in the
>archives.
Gil rassp.hac.com RV6A, #20701, N64GA rsvd.
Gil, I used PPG Durethane for the interior (over Variprime, in case you're
interested) and I feel that it is "wearing" pretty good. I have touched up
a few nicks on the control sticks and flap handle due to being
fumble-fingered when handling the seat belts and shoulder harnesses. If you
have any thickness of paint at all, it is hard to make a repair to a nick.
I dabbed a little at a time on the end of a match stick and tried to fill in
the crater in the paint. Sometimes it works better than others. I'm also a
lot more careful with metal objects in the cockpit.
I thought about using a flattening agent and discarded the idea. There
might be a batch to batch inconsistancy and I thought maybe the slick,
shiney paint might wipe down better. As far as chip resistance goes, I'm
not too sure you'd be any better off with any other type of paint. Anyway,
if the flap handle gets to bugging me, maybe I'll slide a handle bar grip
over it:) I intend to use a polyurethane on the next interior when the time
comes.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg) |
| Subject: | Re: Prop/spinner clearance |
At 7:19 PM 11/18/96, Herman Dierks wrote:
> I think 1/4 inch is better.
> There are several things to consider:
> 1) Your dynafocal mounts will sag over time, so the spinner will slump
> down.
> 2) Under G loads, the engine will move around quite a bit.
>
> 3) When you take the bottom cowl on and off, you need a little room
> here. I glassed the top gear leg fairings onto my bottom cowl
>
>
> .
> Herman (RV4 60hrs)
> dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
>
>> The construction manual recomends leaving 1/16-1/8" clearance between the
>> spinner and the prop. I obviously want the gap as small as practical, but is
>> 1/16" sufficient? It seems awfully close.
>>
>> Ed Bundy
>> ebundy2620(at)aol.com
>>
A friend here just cut the nose off of his cowl and took a 1/4 section out of
it to give the needed prop spinner clearance. He has a const speed prop,
and only (when fitting the cowl) had a single washer as a spacer between
the prop
assembly and the aft spinner bulkhead. When he cycled the prop to high pitch,
he did this manually, and the prop hit the bulkhead. He had to add another
washer for the needed space, which in turn caused the bulkhead to hit the
cowl.
He was ticked off....
Doug
Doug Bloomberg
RV-6A (in the womb)
Denver, CO
dougb(at)mail.diac.com (home)
doug(at)boulder.vni.com (work)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg) |
| Subject: | Re: Crankshafts in the RV-6A Vortec Conversion |
At 7:30 AM 11/18/96, Bill Phillips wrote:
>Many of the nay-sayers on automobile engine conversions got me wound up
>this week about crankshafts as you all know. I talked to everyone I
>could get my hands on about the relative merits of the cast nodular iron
>crank vs. a forged crank. ... snip
...
> My bottom line as one of the test pilots is that I=92m not going to=
worry
>about the crank or the rods. Today, I=92m actually more worried about the
>weather.
>
>Bill Phillips
>From the Tree House at the OMABP
Howdy,
Please read the November and December "Circle Track" Magazine it's an
excellent source for no bull technical articles dealing with Nascar racing.
Yeah they talk about suspensions, but there is much talk about engines and
building and means to gain power and keep it running.
The above articles have 2 very long articles concerning metal (cranks, rods)
types, how they were heated, the difference between hardness and toughness.
The authors are the head metallurgical engineer at GM's northstar engine pla=
nt,
and Smoky Yunik (who I think is one of Americas best practical automotive
engine men)
I like "Cirle Track" a lot and I don't even get a free subscription, darn...
Doug
Doug Bloomberg
RV-6A (in the womb)
Denver, CO
dougb(at)mail.diac.com (home)
doug(at)boulder.vni.com (work)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternative Engines |
> I've also wondered what effect, if any, there might be on the price of
> new Lycomings now that Cessna is cranking out new 172's again (which use
> a Lyc IO-360).
At a guess, new parts will be more scarce and expensive because they're all
being shipped to Kansas. Then, a few dead doctors later, salvage engines will
become available as people with more money than sense bend perfectly good
airplanes.
(People with more sense than money build RVs). :-)
P.S. Nothing against doctors, really.
P.P.S. Please don't flame me for calling a 172 a "Perfectly good airplane."
:-)
--
(Sorry Randall, no more room for the Yakko Warner quote)
Richard Chandler
RV-6: Garage bought, saving for tools and tail kit (Christmas?).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg) |
At 7:13 PM 11/18/96, aol.com!Bcg007(at)matronics.com wrote:
>Need to ask a basic question before I do something dumb.
>
>I'm in the process of preparing spars on a 6 for riveting. I've got
>pre-drilled spars. After reading the plans (over and over and over) I can
>see only 5 components that must be riveted to the assembly in addition to
>what Van supplied all bolted together. These are the five 7 inch prices of
>angle mounted beyond sta-68.75.
>
>Is this right? I don't want to drill out rivets.
>
>Jon Scholl
>RV6 Wings
Thats it John, I found that by cutting the angles before placement as shown
below, it will give enough clearance to rivet/buck the wing skins, plus you
may save all of 4 oz. (I have plans from 1991 s/n 21116 and the photos that
came with them shows the angles cut at an angle)
rivet
|
V
+----][----
||\
|| \
|| \ <-- trim angle here (cutout gives space to buck)
Spar web --> || \
|| \
|| | <-- one of the 5 angles
|| |
|| |
~~ ~
dam ascii graphics *&^$$%
Remember the spacers between webs, they are important as they transfer load
from upper to lower flanges and vs/vs.
I used Avery's dimple tool, you know you get one long rod that's flat at
one end and turned down on the other. Well the turned down side fits a
rivet gun.
I think doing the Harbor Freight Arbor thing a waste of effort when a good
3X or 4X gun will really do the trick. There is much more control using the
dimple tool and rivet gun. Also, put/place every bolt and nut in the spar
before you rivet. Use close tolerance bolts where you can, make sure there
is
no binding of the rivets in the holes, either use a reamer or a new drill to
provide rivet hole clearance, I found that the variprime would get into the
holes and would cause a force fit of the rivets. This could cause poorly
seated rivets as they couldn't expand properly (It's a real bummer to drill
out
one of those LONG rivets, set up the drill press, hold the spar, etc etc). The
actual riveting took 1 hr per spar (place a sheet of plywood between the dimple
tool and garage floor or you may tear up the floor) Support the spar so it is
at right angles to the direction the rivets will be driven.
Oh yeah, debur every thing, alumiprep, alodine, and variprime every thing. Use
something (if you don't like variprime) with zinc chromate to give a chemical
plus mechanical corrosion protection to the spar.
Congratulations! You have saved $700 (1992 dollars) and have a spar whose
fatigue life is DOUBLE the anodized Phlogiston spar.
Doug
Doug Bloomberg
RV-6A (in the womb)
Denver, CO
dougb(at)mail.diac.com (home)
doug(at)boulder.vni.com (work)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elon Ormsby <elon.o(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Crankshafts in the Vortec (CHAT) |
Hi Bill:
I don't know what prompted the crankshaft issue again. There was quite a thread
on
alternate engines last January.
GM makes more than one crank for both styles of V-6. I will give you the part
numbers and a brief description. You decide why GM goes to the trouble. It may
have no
significance at all for your situtation. But this is a fact - these GM parts are
stronger than STOCK parts for both styles of V-6.
90 degree V-6:
Part No. 14044838 - Raw Crankshaft Forging:
"This raw crankshaft forging is forged from vacuum degassed 5140 steel."
60 degree V-6:
Part No. 25500008 - Raw Crankshaft Forging:
"...it is forged from tough 4340 steel, and it will accommodate strokes from
2.66" to 3.625". The extra large counterweights will provide proper engine balance
with heavy-duty piston/rod assemblies."
Reference: 1994 GM Performance Parts Catalog, pgs 84 & 96.
The above quotes are from this catalog. There is more description that I left
out but
would be happy to mail you a copy if you e-mail me your address.
Like I inferred above, increased strength and/or durability may not apply to your
situation but it is a fact these parts are stronger than your current application.
Whether you need them or not - thats strictly your call.
I have found that a persons "comfort factor" in flying is usually based on their
experience and terrain they fly over. Given your geographic situation (flying over
that giant sand box) :-) you might feel quite differently than when I fly over
the
Trinity Alps in Northern California. When I go to Vegas I always feel a lot more
comfortable when I cross that last mountain range past Yosemite and see that good
old
"flat" desert stretching for 1,000's of square miles. Unsuitable terrain always
keeps
my adrenaline up. Not being a test pilot I cant possibly bring to the task the
same
experience you have. However, we all want to stack the odds in our favor. Its
just
that some pilots want (or need) better odds than others to feel comfortable.
A good example was a posting from Jim Cimino (I think) who works for GM Canada.
He
described quite eloquently, a very rugged and robust test cycle that GM puts the
Vortec engines through. After 500 hours of severe abuse no Vortec suffered structural
failure. He also made a case for the precision and statistical process control
(SPC)
GM uses in manufacturing. He even stated that Total Indicated Runout (TIR) on the
cranks was about 2.5 - 3.0 microns! Sounds very impressive until you learn that
GM
manufactures .0005" oversize bearings because they "selectively fit" undersize
cranks.
With SPC they dont throw undersize parts away. Every dollar counts and they have
adopted ways that minimize their scrap. Im not saying this is bad. With the
economies of mass production, now days, the auto manufactures produce good parts
that
will not fail within their operating envelope. But is that the same environment
for a
aircraft motor? What one wants to know is where IS the failure point! What IS
the
cycle life! If that Vortec engine continued on its merry way and finally failed
at
1500 hours one could feel comfortable buying a new one every 500 hours knowing
it has
a 3:1 safety factor. Since none of these motors have been abused (tested) to their
failure points - where is that weak link? If that engine failed at only 600 hours,
given the variances of mass production, should one fly that motor to 550 hours
before
throwing it away?
I sincerely appreciate your continued postings to this list. You are collecting
and
sharing data for all of us and we are all learning from your experiences.
Elon
elon.o(at)worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | VS-407/front-spar connection |
I need a little help.
I just drilled my VS-601 to the VS skeleton. The top (in the jig) holes in
the VS-407 centre rib (the ones which also go through the front spar) went
through the top edge of the flange of the VS-407. This is due IMHO to the
slope of the front spar relative to the rib.
Here's a crude ASCII pic of the situation... side-on view... Obviously the
spar doesn't really slope that much. The hole is located at the 'v' in the
diagram.
\ Front \
\ spar \
\ flange \\
\ \X Rivets
\ V\\
\ ___-__\\
\| v | \
| | \
|VS-407|
|flange|
What I'd like to know is how to fix this? Should I rivet a doubler between
the spar flange and VS-407; if so, what size/shape should the doubler be?
Bear in mind that the holes are too be dimpled for flush rivets through the
skin.
Having drilled the skin to the skeleton, I guess any disassembly of the
skeleton is going to involve a whole new VS :-(
I can't believe I'm the first/only person to do this (the holes are dead in
the middle of the flanges of both the spar and the rib), but there's no
mention of it in the archives, AFAICT.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine tach. drive cover |
Cheryl,
I have the tach drive cover you need , cost $5.00 plus shipping. I can be
reach at 817-439-3280....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | KAB is at the printers . . . |
For those who have been asking about the next issue of
Kit Aircraft Builder, it goes to press today (Tuesday).
We expect our issues in Wichita in about a week. Thank
you for your patience . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Smith, Hal" <smith1h(at)macsmtpgw.spring-branch.isd.tenet.edu> |
| Subject: | Insurance for Military pilots |
USAA does offer aircraft insurance but they sub it out. I found that there
rates were not very competative on my Varieze (sorry about the plastic).
Hal Smith (Working on wings)
_______________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv-list(at)matronics.com on Mon, Nov 18, 1996 5:16 PM |
| Subject: | Insurance for Military pilots |
RFC Header:Received: by macsmtpgw.spring-branch.isd.tenet.edu with SMTP;18 Nov
1996 17:16:45 U
| From: | ibm.net!lhlucas(at)matronics.com |
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 22:34:58 GMT
Subject: RV-List: Insurance for Military pilots
would you guys give me some feed-back on who you are insuring with.
Is USAA even a consideration in this area...thanks...John Lucas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Considerations |
>>that uneven heating of the skins could cause even worse oilcanning and
>>distortion is something to consider. But I just had another thought.
>>
>To Any; Along this line, I know of one who places a saw horse under the
>tip and the inside spar end, then adds weights to the center and then does
>the wing skin.
>John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
>Stephenville TX
>johnd@our-town.com
>
>
John,
Are you saying that he skins the wing while the wing is horizontal rather
than vertical in the jig? Seems to me it would be very hard to maintain a
constant bow in the wing and thus get the skin consistantly tight across the
span since the root of the spar is so much stiffer than the tip. Also seems
that some uneven stresses could be induced into the structure. Could you
please clarify your friends procedure.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net (Chris Brooks) |
| Subject: | Re: VS-407/front-spar connection |
Frank,
What I would do is drill out the rivets joining the VS-407 to the front
spar, and then trim some off the flange of the VS-407 rib so that it
won't interfere with the rivet in spar line.Dimple the hole in the spar
before you rivet the rib back to it.Use the factory head of the rivets
against the rib flange or it will deform.If you do this in the jig the
skin holes will still line up.
Chris Brooks RV-6 BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
| Subject: | Lower Flap Link Rod End Bearing |
>>From: aol.com!Vanremog(at)matronics.com[SMTP:aol.com!Vanremog(at)matronics.com]
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Lower Flap Link Rod End Bearing
>
>>Because of you true believers out there, on behalf of the RV-List, I spoke
>>today with Harvey Sturkel of Aurora Bearing (630-859-2030) regarding the use
>>of the CM-4MS studded rod end bearing in our flap actuator mechanisms.
> ...
Okay, so we hear what you said "Mr. Sturkel" told you, what did Van say?
Mr. Sturkel
sells bearings. Van designs planes. That being the case, I'd like to
hear Van's views on
this since he has probably spent a *little* more time considering this
problem than Mr. Sturkel.
Also, are there any tech counselors out there who have a problem with
the current setup?
--------------------- cut here
--------------------------------------------------------------
Mitch Faatz mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com San Jose, CA
RV-6AQME N727MF (reserved)
Empennage done, working on floor pans and seats
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
| Subject: | Seat cushion fabrication |
They are also on my website for those who don't know how to convert the
below:
http://www.aftershock.org/mitch/RVstash/
I'm reworking my website now to handle lots of new pictures, multiple
builders and more information, so soon there will be actual links to the
above! For know, the above address work for your browser by listing the
two files, seat1.gif and seat2.gif. You should be able to click on
either to see them.
--------------------- cut here
--------------------------------------------------------------
Mitch Faatz mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com San Jose, CA
RV-6AQME N727MF (reserved)
Finished with empennage, working on floor pans and seats
>----------
>From: aol.com!TimRV6A(at)matronics.com[SMTP:aol.com!TimRV6A(at)matronics.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 1996 3:26 AM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Seat cushion fabrication
>
><>
>
>> Here are a couple of drawings I made from Bingelis' article. One is a
>> sketch of each part, the other is an assembly drawing. They are in
>> Macintosh PICT format. Unfortunately for those of you with DOS/Windows
>> I'm not sure how you would read them unless a friendly Mac user could
>> print them for you.
>> Ken
>> RV6A Flying
>
>Attached are the files converted to .GIF format, then mime encoded.
>
>Tim Lewis
>RV6AQ #60023
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BestBillO(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Insurance for Military pilots |
I'm retired military. USAA wasn't even close. Avemco/AUS have served me
well for RV-6, Twin Comanche, and Bonanza.
Bill
Orcutt
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Seat cushion fabrication |
| From: | John Hovan <hovan(at)apple.com> |
>Claris.COM!mauser
Hi All,
The rv seat cushion pictures have been added to the web page.
"rv.austin.apple.com"
fyi,
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Lower Flap Link Rod End Bearing |
> Okay, so we hear what you said "Mr. Sturkel" told you, what did Van say?
> Mr. Sturkel sells bearings. Van designs planes. That being the
> case, I'd like to hear Van's views on this since he has probably spent
> a *little* more time considering this problem than Mr. Sturkel. Also,
> are there any tech counselors out there who have a problem with
> the current setup?
I dunno, Van has a LOT of things on his plate to worry about one little
bearing he considered convenient, trim, and more than beefy enough. Whereas a
salesman on a technical item has to be intimately familiar with the specs and
applications of his product. I'd expect Mr. Lycoming (If there were one) to
be more expert on engines than Van. There's no question about it, Van has
designed one of the best damned kits on the market, and I can hardly wait to
have the scratch together to get started on one. But he is not a deity. (If
he were, we'd have pre-trimmed and drilled canopies).
Has anyone attempted to calculate the load on that bearing at V(fe) and
compared it to the spec?
Consider that we now have word from the Bearing Manufacturer and Canadian
aircraft inspectors that the stud bearing is being used in the wrong
application.
(By the way, what happens to "Mr. Sturkel sells Bearings" if the normal
bearing is cheaper than the studded one? Hmmm? Anyone got prices?).
--
(Sorry Randall, no more room for the Yakko Warner quote)
Richard Chandler
RV-6: Garage bought, saving for tools and tail kit (Christmas?).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E Steffens" <resteffe(at)dpcmail.dukepower.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank brackets, flap rods,etc |
Charles Fink wrote;
Structural changes to aircraft designed by someone other than yourself
should be approached cautiously.........snip
I agree. Charles says it well. This list is a great forum to get ideas
out, but judgement is necessary lest one jumps too quick without
thorough consideration of the consequences. I'm leaving my electric
flap actuator system just like it was designed, but I'm glad about the
discussion. There will always be differences of opinion and
interpretation and that's what makes gatherings of RVs so interesting.
And Charles, thanks again for the ride in your fine -6. Now a
question...How tight did you tighten your engine mount bolts? I think
you had a conical mount like I have. I just got the engine on the
plane, but I can't find anything on how tight to squeeze the rubber
bushings. Anyone else have something definitive? I just tightened the
bolts until they looked and felt about right.
Dick Steffens
resteffe(at)dpcmail.dukepower.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: Seat cushion fabrication |
Thanks to those who converted and posted my seat cushion drawings. A
couple of comments to anyone contemplating using them:
1. Watch the thickness of the back. I put 2inches on the drawing but
actually ended up with only 1 inch.
2. The width of the seat cushion can be increased if you have electric
flaps.
3. The thicknessof the seat is obviously dependent on your height.
A good electric carving knife is ok for cutting temperfoam. You need a
steady hand but it seemed to work out ok.
In the winter, the seats are hard. The right hand seat will fall on
your head if you invert with no one sitting in it and its not secure
with something like velcro. This happened to a very good friend of
mine!!!
Ken RV6A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | Where do I put the engine oil cooler ? |
I am building an RV6A and I understand there are three places to put the oil
cooler.
1) firewall
2) front cowl
3) behind the third cylinder
- Orndorf said he had cooling problems behind the third cylinder.
Anybody have any recommendations, I am thinking the firewall mount VANS
sells may work the best ?
Scott Johnson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | What type of paint / primer for the engine mount ? |
I am getting ready to paint the engine mount but am not sure what to use.
Some builders have used high temperature engine enamel (500 degrees) and
have complained that it chips to easy and then rusts. I have an epoxy
primer (randolph epibond), but fear that it may not like the intense heat of
the engine compartment. If I used variprime first, what would I put over it
to stand the high temps ? Any advice greatly appreciated.
Scott Johnson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Insurance for Military pilots |
I've insured my RV6 for five years now and have gotten numerous insurance
quotes each year. Although I'm a loyal USAA customer, they have never come
close to some of the other quotes. My first year was with AVEMCO, and I paid
big bucks. The second year I went with COMAV through an agent in Rochester,
NY and cut my bill in half. I stayed with COMAV until this year when I
switched to the Forest Agency in Illinois. The policy is still underwritten
by COMAV but was cheaper than the NY policy. BTW, the year I switched to
COMAV I explained to AVEMCO why, their response was "oh well, take it or
leave it". AVEMCO won't get my business again.
Rick McBride
RICKRV6(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Insurance for Military pilots |
I have four airplanes insured with USAA General Agency
and find their rates competitive however, they are
unable to find an underwriter for my uncompleyed
RV-6.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What type of paint / primer for the engine mount ? |
Scott; I've had good luck with a common paint. The spray cans of touch up
for kitchen appliances. I think they call it epoxy enamel. I did the
usual- wash, use OSPHOS, sand a little, clean with coleman fuel, spray with
marhide, spray with the epoxy enamel. One word of caution. The enamel says
spray second coat within x minutes or wait x days. Well, I have a custom
paint job. My left gear leg mount has crinkled paint. Saw a thin spot and
without thinking (the story of my life) grabbed the can and put a little
spray on. In about 15 seconds I had my custom crinkle paint on that spot.
So far (175 hours almost 3 years) it hasn't changed color and yes, it will
chip if you hit it too hard with metal, but what doesn't? It does cure out
hard and smooth, just like a refrigerator.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Considerations |
Mike; I assume he does the wing in the jig and either rivets the bottom
skin while in the jig or has it all clecoed, but he had told me in the past
that he does the bottom of the wing first. When I saw it on the saw horses,
I didn't pay attention as to the bottom skin if it was clecoed or riveted,
but it was on. Some of the top was clecoed and he had started to rivet
some. As for the unequal stress, I think that is true, but isn't it also
true with the heated skin? He is more concerned about the smoothness of the
top than he is of the bottom, as are most of us.
I had tried the heat method on mine. Two electric heating pads covered with
an elec. blanket and a drop light in the 'chamber' I was riveting on. Guess
what? The wings have stress wrinkles when I'm flying!!!
As for working on the wings out of the jig, mine were mounted on the
fuselages when I put the rivets on the top skins. I had put rivets in the
bottom, and a jillion clecoes in the top and kept them in a rack until the
fuse. was ready for them, put them on and then did the top rivets.
Hope this helps some. I have my ideas as to how I would do it next time.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | Interior Painting of the Fuselage |
I am also at the stage of needing to paint the interior of my cockpit.
Unfortunately, I primed the whole thing with variprime. I believe I may end
up with alot of scratches eventually showing green. What kind of durable
paint can I put over the variprime that will resist the wear and tear of
getting in and out of the cockpit.
Scott Johnson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jaxarnet(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Insurance for Military pilots |
Although it seems that AVEMCO gets a bad rap from time to time, usually due
to price (I say that because it very rare that I hear anyone say they left
AVEMCO because of bad service, claims or otherwise, or because they were an
undependable company), you should give them a call about a
construction/reconstruction policy for your RV-6. I doubt very highly that
you could come close to getting a better price for insurance on a homebuilt
that is in the building stages. And they do have very competitive prices for
the RV series even after it's built and flying.
Anyway, it can't hurt to give them a call at (800) 638-8440. And yes, I do
work for them.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Prop/spinner clearance |
> I think 1/4 inch is better.
> There are several things to consider:
> 1) Your dynafocal mounts will sag over time, so the spinner will slump
> down.
> > The construction manual recomends leaving 1/16-1/8" clearance between
the
> > spinner and the prop. I obviously want the gap as small as practical,
but
> is
> > 1/16" sufficient? It seems awfully close.
Oops. I wasn't very clear. Actually I meant the clearance between the
spinner and the *prop*. i.e.: where the spinner cutouts go around the blade
of the prop.
thanks,
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Where do I put the engine oil cooler ? |
Scott; I have an RV6. I put the cooler on the air shroud behind the left
rear cyl. If there is a cooling problem, it's that it stays too cool.
I use a 1/8 x1x1 angle bracket that joins the rear cross shroud to the left
side shroud as a prime mounting point, then there are also two bolts on the
inboard edge of the cooler to the shroud. About half of the cooler is
directly behind the cly, the rest is above it. I did grind about 1/8 inch
from the inside flange of the cooler to allow for vibration clearance from
the eng. mount. It cools so well that I've put a ball valve in the line
from the engine to the cooler and adjust while in flight.
Works for me, don't know how it would fit the 6A.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GHLX34A(at)prodigy.com (MR GEORGE T KILISHEK) |
Anybody heard any rumors (or, dare one wish, hard data) re: status of
these mythical creatures?
George Kilishek
RV-8 SN 80006
straightening wing ribs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark LaBoyteaux <tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Where to get Temperfoam? |
I'm at the stage where I'm wanting to build my seat cushions. What I
want to know is, where is a good source for temperfoam to make the
bottom cushions?
Thanks,
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6a working sliding canopy
N106RV
tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: What type of paint / primer for the engine mount ? |
I had my -6A motor mount powder coated at a total cost of $45. Wide choice
of colors, but I took white because it would show cracks better, if they
became an issue.
Tried to remove a small patch to attach a ground connection, and had to get
out the grinder. Stuff is tough!!
Bruce Patton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: Where to get Temperfoam? |
>--------------
>I'm at the stage where I'm wanting to build my seat cushions. What I
>want to know is, where is a good source for temperfoam to make the
>bottom cushions?
> Thanks,
> Mark LaBoyteaux
> RV-6a working sliding canopy
> N106RV
> tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com
>
>--------------
Try: Temperfoam
402-470-2346
Matt
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What type of paint / primer for the engine mount ? |
Scott,
You might consider getting your mount powder coated. There are some good
shops near your locale. It's a little expensive but it does a great job.
Rick McBride
RICKRV6(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com (Stephen Paul Johnson) |
| Subject: | Re: What type of paint / primer for the engine mount ? |
Scott wrote:
>
>I am getting ready to paint the engine mount but am not sure what to
use.
>Some builders have used high temperature engine enamel (500 degrees)
and
>have complained that it chips to easy and then rusts. I have an epoxy
>primer (randolph epibond), but fear that it may not like the intense
heat of
>the engine compartment. If I used variprime first, what would I put
over it
>to stand the high temps ? Any advice greatly appreciated.
>
I would investigate powder coating technology. There is local shop
here that did all of the steel parts on my empennage for $40 (the
minimum charge) and they turned out great. They do a big business in
finishing custom bicycle frames. I don't know how it stands up to
heat. They used a light grey color, which I would recommend for crack
detection.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Where do I put the engine oil cooler ? |
> I am building an RV6A and I understand there are three places to put the
oil
> cooler.
> 1) firewall
> 2) front cowl
> 3) behind the third cylinder
> Anybody have any recommendations, I am thinking the firewall mount VANS
> sells may work the best ?
I used the mount from Van's on the firewall. It was very easy to install,
and I'm told by people using the setup that it works well.
I'll let you know tommorrow. :)
Ed Bundy (1st flight scheduled for 11/20/96)
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lower Flap Link Rod End Bearing |
> He said that he could not recommend the CM-4MS because the stud is only
made
> of low alloy steel of 70,000 PSI tensile strength typical (for reference,
> normal AN4 bolts have a tensile strength of 125,000 PSI minimum). Since
the
> load is acting in single shear, the AN4 spec says that an alloy steel bolt
> is
> good for 3,680 lbs rated strength. I agree that the stud is probably
still
> stronger than it needs to be, but it is clear that the AN4 fastener is
> considerably stronger
Well, an AN5 is even stronger than that. Should we use *it* instead? Please
don't take this as a flame, it isn't meant that way. I think people on this
list sometimes get carried away with what I (IMHO) consider little details.
So that alloy bolt is ONLY good for 3680lbs then. That means we can set the
trailing edge of the flap on the ground and pile 3 RV's on top of it before
it breaks? I think if you could put that much air load (don't ask me how - a
Vne dive with full flaps perhaps?) on the flap you would start popping hinge
eyes at the outboard end of the flap (as this end is unsupported by a
linkage) LONG before you snapped that #4 bolt.
Van's designs have been around a long time and have a very good safety
record. If he reccomends it that works for me. He has a lot more knowledge
in this area than I do. It would be a losing battle trying to beef up flap
links, fuel tank supports, etc. You may end up doing more damage in addition
to building an airplane that is too heavy to fly.
Ed Bundy
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What type of paint / primer for the engine mount ? |
>I am getting ready to paint the engine mount but am not sure what to use.
>Some builders have used high temperature engine enamel (500 degrees) and
>have complained that it chips to easy and then rusts. I have an epoxy
>primer (randolph epibond), but fear that it may not like the intense heat of
>the engine compartment. If I used variprime first, what would I put over it
>to stand the high temps ? Any advice greatly appreciated.
>Scott Johnson
Scott, I primed the mount with variprime and top coated with Centari
Enamel. A better choice for a top coat would be a polyurethane as it is a
little more servicable. I'd recommend pianting the mount white or some
other very light color as any rust resulting from a crack in the finish will
show up a little better than it will on a black mount.
I've not had any heat damage to the paint on my engine mount.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: What type of paint / primer for the engine mount ? |
>
>You might consider getting your mount powder coated. There are some good
>shops near your locale. It's a little expensive but it does a great job.
There has been some discussion about this previously. Powder coating has
some structural properties of its own such that it is possible cracks could
develop in an underlying structure but be "papered over" by the powder coat.
An aircraft rebuilding shop I trust uses a polyurethane for this purpose and
says it has good long term results. They use white to make crack detection easy.
I have gone this route but as I haven't flown yet I can't personally vouch
for it.
Leo
Leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin lane <kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lower Flap Link Rod End Bearing |
>
> I dunno, Van has a LOT of things on his plate to worry about one little
> bearing he considered convenient, trim, and more than beefy enough. Whereas
a
> salesman on a technical item has to be intimately familiar....snip
If Van spent some time designing the electric flap assembly the damn thing might
actually fit! I disagree with this pedestal view of Van. After modify the flap
assembly to avoid having the flap arm hit the support channel I have now encountered
what is apparently common knowledge thru the archives that electric flaps and tilt-ups
don't mix, and have a serious collision between the flap assembly and the canopy
latch
torsion tube. What burns me is to yet once again be given the "well the factory
retro-fit planes didn't have any problem" insinuating that I'm either imagining
the
problem, that my plane is so far out of tolerance that I created the problem, or
that I
must be not be reading the archives correctly because NO ONE else has ever reported
such
a problem. Because of an errant Chevy Caprice, perhaps my problem will be validated
in
the near future when electric flaps get selected for the rebuild. Blindly accepting
the
status quo doesn't seem prudent in any arena. And questioning a man's opinion
because
he's a salesman vs. a designer?? whoa, last I knew Van got paid selling kits,
not
designing them. There, I feel better now. kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com, 6A, persuing
velcro canopy latch!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Constant Speed Prop |
<< The same appears to be true for Governors, by the way. Shocked at the way
the price of the Woodward governor has gone from $875 to $1200 in 15
months, I started looking for a used one. One of the prop shops I called
told me that his WHOLESALE price on that governor was $1700.
BEst Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com >>
Look for my post on ths gov. prices- EMI in Tulsa will sell you one for $325.
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Re: RHV Airport Vote |
Folks-
It is my great pleasure to inform those of you who have followed the long
tortuous and sordid story of Reid-Hillview Airport in Silicon Gulch, that the
Santa Clara County Supervisors have voted 3 to 2 against the closure of RHV.
This is excellent news but somehow I can't believe that the fight is over.
For now the planes still fly.
The pilot turnout was incredible and for the most part speakers for the
airport presented logical arguments to counter the emotional and inflammatory
rhetoric provided by several local homeowners and airport detractors.
A good time was had by all.
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Where do I put the engine oil cooler ? |
<< I am building an RV6A and I understand there are three places to put the
oil
cooler.
1) firewall
2) front cowl
3) behind the third cylinder
- Orndorf said he had cooling problems behind the third cylinder. >>
Most of the 6s in my area have the oil cooler mounted behind the 4th cylinder
(port side rear). I haven't seen any behind number 3 (I've been told #3 runs
the warmest so this would probably be a bad idea). These people with the oil
cooler mounted behind #4 have been to Arizona in the summer and had no
problems.
George actually hooked his lines up different than recommended by Lycoming
and used undersized lines so that may have contributed to his difficulties.
The correct ports on the new engines are out to cooler thru the port just
above the governor pad and in from the cooler thru the port to the left of
the crackcase breather on both the O-320 and O-360. Both ports are 3/8" NPT.
Follow Lycomings and Van's advise on hook up and line size (1/2") and you'll
be okay IMHO.
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lower Flap Link Rod End Bearing |
<< So that alloy bolt is ONLY good for 3680lbs>>
Go back and read my post. I said that the AN4 bolt is rated at 3680 lbs.
Aurora does not rate the stud because they don't consider it a structural
fastening.
<>
Suit yourself. I had an obligation to inform and I have fulfilled it.
Thanks for your opinions and observations.
Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | Re: Where to get Temperfoam? |
Try a medical supply store. There is a chain in Ontario that
specializes in supplies for the disabled. Temperfoam and Sunmate are
used for cushions and mattress pads. The contour forming material
provides comfort for those with restricted mobility.
David Fried
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RV-List: Where to get Temperfoam?
Date: 11/19/96 11:26 PM
I'm at the stage where I'm wanting to build my seat cushions. What I
want to know is, where is a good source for temperfoam to make the
bottom cushions?
Thanks,
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6a working sliding canopy
N106RV
tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Where do I put the engine oil cooler ? |
Scott,
since I made the video I've talked to alot of people with the cooler
behind the #3 and are pleased with the cooling. The best place is ahrd to say
all three places work it depends on what you want......george Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lower Flap Link Rod End Bearing |
>If Van spent some time designing the electric flap assembly the damn thing
might
>actually fit! I disagree with this pedestal view of Van. After modify the
flap
>assembly to avoid having the flap arm hit the support channel I have now
encountered
>what is apparently common knowledge thru the archives that electric flaps
and tilt-ups
>don't mix, and have a serious collision between the flap assembly and the
canopy latch
>torsion tube.
Kevin; Certainly not to 'flame' you. But so others who are contemplating
installing the elc. flap kit after completion of construction-- I did it and
had absolutely no trouble getting it all to go together and clearing other
stuff. I did order the modified assembly, my welding looks as if dirt
daubers did it. And I do have a tilt up. Please don't take this as an
implication that yours is wrong, Hell, with my luck it could be that mine
was in error in just the right places and therefore fit together just right.
At any rate, I sure can't go along with the idea that Vans didn't design it
right.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: Larry Portouw, INTERNET:72170.1636(at)compuserve.com
RE: Europa_Mail: What's KAB?
>What's "Kit Aircraft Builder?" All three of those
>words sound interesting...
Kit Aircraft Builder is a new publication (now printing its
5th issue) comming on line in California. It's put together
by one Charles Coyne who used to publish for the hobby automotive
crowd. Chuck and I have co-misserated about the dearth of
periodical publications truly devoted to building airplanes.
The first issues of Sport Aviation were probably a few sheets
of paper run on Paul's mimeograph machine and contained NOTHING
but builder help info. Now, if you divide the total pages
of current publications (which purport to support builders) by
the number of pages devoted to builder issues, I'd be surprised
if the number exceeds 20% on most rags, less than 10% on others.
Now, I'm NOT whacking on any particular magazine . . . their managers
have made personal/business decisions about where their product should
be going . . . none-the-less, I believe and many join me in the notion
that there's a new opportunity to service the builder INDUSTRY.
I've joined the editorial staff of KAB and will supply a feature
article plus a regular Q/A column in every issue. I'll also be
looking for topical articles from YOU . . . the builders . . . that
can be put together for publishing. If you don't fancy yourself a
writer, let's co-author something . . . I'll help.
If the amateur built industry is to thrive, it must become BETTER
that BPC&M ever were. In many respects (performance, cost, regulation)
we've achieved that goal but there's a LONG way to go. Timely, open
forum communications and sharing of ideas is key to our future
success. It's my goal that KAB, along with the AeroElectric
Connection, become an integral part of the communciations channel.
All of my subscribers will be receiving a sample copy of KAB in the
next few weeks (they are off the press yesterday). Sample copies
are avialble to anyone who is interested in looking it over . . .
drop a note to Charles Coyne at 102125.2540(at)compuserve.com. Anyone
with an idea to share or a request for coverage on some topic can
forward their thoughts to either Chuck or myself.
KAB and/or the 'Connection could go the way of those before us . . .
sell advertising, do mass promo mailings, offer credit cards and overpriced
insurance, etc. . . . or they can become useful tools to those who
pay the price of a subscription. Treat them like your own and let
us know what you NEED to see in print or SHARE with those who follow
you. Folks, we can do something really good here . . .
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========oOOo=(_)=oOOo==========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Electric Flaps & Tip-Up |
There has been some discussion on the list lately about the interference
from the electric flap option and the tip-up canopy's latching mechanism.
I'm not sure if this is covered in the archives, but I have both and had no
problem installing either. The trick is to install the weldment for the
canopy latch prior to fitting the electric flap motor brace. If the flap
assembly is installed first and per the drawings, the canopy weldment will
hit the flap's diagonal brace. At this pint, I know of no other alternative
but to redo the flap brace. If the weldment is already in place, the
diagonal channel can be positioned behind the weldment. This involves
adding a 3/16" spacer between the diagonal flap motor support and it's
attachment tab.
As far as the flap weldment hitting the above referenced brace, don't just
blindly follow Van's given dimensions for it's position on the floor. Use
it as a starting point, hook up a battery and cycle the motor through it's
full range. After your satisfied that you have the proper clearances then
drill the upper and lower portions of the brace.
I'm not flying yet, but my canopy opens and both flaps go up and down.
Scott Gesele N506RV
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:Fly the airplane |
Listers: Yesterday they published the transcript of the cockpit voice
recorder for the ValuJet incident. It was hard to read but something leaped
from the page that was a lesson for us pilots: as the aircraft was
developing an obviously serious problem, the recordings show that the
business of FLYING THE AIRPLANE was getting done in the front office. The
pilots were communicating with tower control and reporting back altitudes
and instructions. Amazing, considering the commotion occuring behind them.
It seems they flew until the flying couldn't be done any more.
The lesson: things happen. Think. FLY THE AIRPLANE.
Hats off to them............
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lower Flap Link Rod End Bearing |
>Van's designs have been around a long time and have a very good safety
>record. If he reccomends it that works for me. He has a lot more knowledge
>in this area than I do. It would be a losing battle trying to beef up flap
>links, fuel tank supports, etc. You may end up doing more damage in addition
>to building an airplane that is too heavy to fly.
>
Hey, flyers: have any of you lucky builders that are flying (or anyone else,
for that matter) ever had any evidence of an impending or actual failure of
the flap end bearing?? This is sounding like lots of spike about something
that might acutally not be a problem. If we are seeing a lot of failures or
excessive wear or other indications of a problem, a fix is in order. If
this is just an area of worry without evidence of a real problem, perhaps
the original disign is adequate and should be left alone.
Just a thought...............
Michael
RV-4 232SQ
mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lower Flap Link Rod End Bearing |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic w Stucklen) |
Listers:
If it isn't broke, don't fix it. I've got over 800 Hr on my -6 with no
noticable wear in the flap rod end bearings. Unless I see a bad wear
problem, I don't expect it to fail. I ALWAYS put the flaps down 20* at
or below 110 MPH, and to 40* at 100 MPH. Again, no noticable wear
ANYWHERE in the flap system.
I said it before, and I'll say it again. If the original design is
adequate, why fix it? AS with the rest of flyings mechaical problems,
Good preflight inspection techniques should show you the indications of
problems long before they happen.
So what's all the fuss about?
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
dimensional.com!mikel(at)matronics.com writes:
>Hey, flyers: have any of you lucky builders that are flying (or anyone
else,
>for that matter) ever had any evidence of an impending or actual failure
of
>the flap end bearing?? This is sounding like lots of spike about
something
>that might acutally not be a problem. If we are seeing a lot of
failures or
>excessive wear or other indications of a problem, a fix is in order. If
>this is just an area of worry without evidence of a real problem,
perhaps
>the original disign is adequate and should be left alone.
>
>Just a thought...............
>
>Michael
>RV-4 232SQ
>mikel(at)dimensional.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Considerations |
> I had tried the heat method on mine. Two electric heating pads
> covered with an elec. blanket and a drop light in the 'chamber' I
> was riveting on. Guess what? The wings have stress wrinkles when
> I'm flying!!!
That's because with the drop light you heated the skin unevenly. The article
in the 14/16 Years of the RVAtor pointed out how if you were to take a sheet
of aluminum and point a heat gun at the middle, it would bulge up. And if you
heated one spot on the edge, the whole sheet would warp like a curved peice of
slot car track.
OTOH, the pre-stressing the wing when skinning the top sounds interesting.
Does anyone have any figures for how far the wing tip deflects between rest
and cruise?
--
(Sorry Randall, no more room for the Yakko Warner quote)
Richard Chandler
RV-6: Garage bought, saving for tools and tail kit (Christmas?).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Interior Painting of the Fuselage |
<< I am also at the stage of needing to paint the interior of my cockpit.
Unfortunately, I primed the whole thing with variprime. I believe I may end
up with alot of scratches eventually showing green. What kind of durable
paint can I put over the variprime that will resist the wear and tear of
getting in and out of the cockpit.
>>
I used a Dupont paint that contains Vinyl that is used to paint dashboards
and other interior surfaces of cars. I used it on my IP and other interior
surfaces that are not covered by fabric. It is durable and cleans up real
well. It also goes on very nice.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles H Fink <CHFINK(at)envc.sandia.gov> |
| Subject: | Rod End Bearings |
This will be my last .02 on the rod end bearing issue. Its
turning personal which inhibits true exchanges of opinions.
This is not intended to flame or criticize anyone. That said
here is my response to some issues raised.
I don't put Van on a pedestal. He makes mistakes. The
changes I have marked on my plans and made to the kit
parts (some after the parts were assembled) bear this out. I
also don't put IAs on a pedestal but I do respect their
opinion. I also evaluate all advice before applying it. As for
engineer vs. salesman vs. craftsman, I worked construction
quite a few years and have found that on most projects there
is at least one instance and very often numerous times that
the craftsman constructing the building find engineering
errors or have a better way of doing some aspect of the
project. Therefore I don't automatically take the word of the
engineer over the craftsman or salesman. I consider the
knowledge and experience of both and rely on my own
judgment as how to proceed. YOU should also. It is your life
that is on the line when you fly that plane you built. Look
critically at all aspects of your project.
Issues: The critical loads on the CM-4MS stud or the AN
bolt that will be used to connect the flap to the actuating
rood are BENDING loads not shear so the load given for the
AN bolt in single shear does not apply in this instance. A
bolt loaded in this fashion will fail well below the shingle
shear value. Single shear conditions occur when the two
items bolted together are in contact with each other. The
load enters the bolt near the center of the first item and exits
the bolt near the center of second item. This introduces
small bending moments in the bolt but these are minor due
to the short moment arm (the distance between where the
force enters the bolt and where it exits) but the primary load
is shear in this case. In the flap case a stand off must be
placed between the flap bracket and the bearing to allow
clearance between the fuselage side and the bearing. This
stand off creates a relative large moment arm (distance
between the center of the bearing and center of the bracket)
thus the critical loads on this bolt are due to the bending
moment.
Issue: The stud in the bearing is weaker than the AN bolt
therefore the AN bolt is better. Tensile strength is only one
parameter to consider when selecting a material for a
specific application. Look at the main spar. The bars used to
carry the loads are 6061-T6, tensile strength 42 Ksi. This is
not just Van's whim 6061 is used throughout the aviation
industry for structural members. Why not 2024-T3 at 63 Ksi
or 7075-T6 at 70 Ksi? In buildings the standard steel used
for members subject to bending loads is 36 Ksi where as
reinforcing steel for concrete which is subjected to tension
and compression is 60 Ksi and tension only members such
as cables for prestressed concrete beams and suspension
bridges are typically 100+ Ksi. Why? The basic answer is
that the lower strength material PERFORMS better when
subjected to moment loading. Its the standard engineering
attempt to balance all factors. For an in-depth answer ask a
structural or mechanical engineer. They will talk about
ductility, brittle fracture, failure modes, fatigue strength .....
Bottom line, the CM-4MS has been tested under the loading
conditions that the bearing will be subjected to in the RV.
Aurora publishes allowable load tables for this bearing and it
will perform very well as long as the loads are within the
allowable limits. I don't think there is anything published on
allowable bending moments in AN bolts because most
design manuals say don't load an AN bolt that way.
I do not intend to do the analysis to determine the loads on
or stresses in the stud or AN bolt because I built my plane
per the original design which appears to be adequate and
with over 1,000 planes flying without one recorded failure of
that part there is substantial data to validate the design. If
you choose to make the change then it is up to you to do
the engineering and testing to validate your design. My
original intent was to demonstrate that apparently minor
changes can have major unforeseen consequences like
enlarging the fuselage cut-out for washer clearance, but that
thought got lost in the forest while we were looking at the
trees.
As for those of you living in Canada I would make these
points to the IA requiring this change:
1. The bearing in question is being used under loading
conditions the bearing was designed and tested for and
2. Capture washers are a good RECOMMENDED
construction practice but, installing capture washers in this
instance requires using a AN bolt in a critical location in a
manner design manuals frown upon.
If they persist you have two recourses. Be antagonistic and
ask the IA sign his new untested design there by accepting
the liability of his change (American FAA inspectors will
only make recommendations for this reason), or document
the IA's name and required change in your log book so in
the remote chance of problems later you have evidence the
change was not arbitrary and was not initiated by you.
Charles Fink, RV-6 flying
chfink(at)envc.sandia.gov
Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)bala.HAC.COM (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: Lower Flap Link Rod End Bearing |
>>If Van spent some time designing the electric flap assembly the damn thing
>might
>>actually fit! I disagree with this pedestal view of Van. After modify the
>flap
>>assembly to avoid having the flap arm hit the support channel I have now
>encountered
>>what is apparently common knowledge thru the archives that electric flaps
>and tilt-ups
>>don't mix, and have a serious collision between the flap assembly and the
>canopy latch
>>torsion tube.
>
>Kevin; Certainly not to 'flame' you. But so others who are contemplating
>installing the elc. flap kit after completion of construction-- I did it and
>had absolutely no trouble getting it all to go together and clearing other
>stuff. I did order the modified assembly, my welding looks as if dirt
>daubers did it. And I do have a tilt up. Please don't take this as an
>implication that yours is wrong, Hell, with my luck it could be that mine
>was in error in just the right places and therefore fit together just right.
>At any rate, I sure can't go along with the idea that Vans didn't design it
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>right.
^^^^^
Actually, I disagree with this statement. I made a scale drawing
following _all_ of the dimensions given in the plans, and the tilt-up
canopy latch bar DOES interfere with the flap drive foward channel. I even
sent the drawing to the factory.
Since the factory does not always seem to follow their own
dimensions (see the factory response to making the baggage floor ribs fit -
"just move them"), it's not surprising that designing options using the
factory prototypes leads to customer 'misfits', and then justifying it by
saying they weren't built correctly.
See the archives for more discussion on this subject ( Hotline
quote: "you are the third person this week") - I was the person making the
original warning in June 1995.
Personally, I was hoping that the QuickBuild kits would lead to a
flurry of plans changes for the RV6, but the RVator seems to be having less
and less plans revisions. I still have not seen any RVator comments on the
flap/canopy latch bar interference problem -- which a fair number of us on
the RV-list have experienced.
I bet a pint of good beer that the assembly operation on the QB
kits works to it's own marked up set of prints -- just like Art Chard did
with the original RV4 fuselage bulkhead spacing dimensions. Can anyone
either confirm or deny this??
.... Gil (prefer accurate dimensions) Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
RV6A, #20701, N64GA rsvd.
>John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
>Stephenville TX
>johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MiDiBu <midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com> |
> from earlier, George Orndorff wrote:
>Mike ,
>I used Vari Prime on all the parts of my airplane before they go together,
>seems to work good....George Orndorff
George and group,
When I received the tapes, I treated them like I would do a new technical
book. For example, a book on a new or advanced programming language. I read
the whole thing and don't attempt to learn it all on the first pass. In
rapidly scanning the tapes, I missed your emphasis on priming. I was
looking at the project as a whole.
Now, I'm really building. The first pass of the tapes convinced me that the
project was do-able. Now, many $$$ into tools and stuff, I'm finding that
the tapes are saving me a lot of learning curve time and frustration.
Thanks for the help,
Mike Weller RV 80187 (under construction)
midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com (preferred) or mike.weller(at)msfc.nasa.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Lower Flap Link Rod End Bearing |
It would still be nice to have some hard numbers for the Canadian builders to
throw back in the face of the Canadian inspectors. Assuming 40 degrees of
flaps at 100 MPH, what is the load on the rod end? (It's been a while since
someone posted formulas to the list :-)
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)Op.Net> |
| Subject: | Re: What type of paint / primer for the engine mount ? |
>I am getting ready to paint the engine mount but am not sure what to use.
>Some builders have used high temperature engine enamel (500 degrees) and
>have complained that it chips to easy and then rusts. I have an epoxy
>primer (randolph epibond), but fear that it may not like the intense heat of
>the engine compartment. If I used variprime first, what would I put over it
>to stand the high temps ? Any advice greatly appreciated.
>
>Scott Johnson
Dear Scott,
I would like to refer you and the rv-list to an article written by John
Schwaner of Sacramento Sky Ranch. He has written several articles for the
Maintanance Section of AvWeb. This particular article describes the
fallicies and truths of paints to be used in the Engine compartment. In
particular, John suggests the merits of using white or, better yet, a
metallic(aluminum) paint for the engine mounts. He additionally suggest the
proper colors to be used on certain accessories in the engine compartment
as well as on the inner surface of the cowling. He also explains the merits
of shields and doing nothing at all. He does not suggest types of paints to
use, but we are already aware of many of these options.
Lou Willig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lsmith(at)coastalnet.com (Louis E. Smith Jr.) |
| Subject: | Re: Constant Speed Prop |
>Chet, hi
>
>You need something like an HC-C2YK/7666-2, a Mooney prop. But good luck
>finding a used one. If you do, and they have an extra one, let me know
>immediately. I am resigned to buying a new one.
>
>Phil #80005 O-360, CS
>arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu
>
>>I'm thinking about shopping for a used C/S prop for my 6A. What
>>information about a prop is necessary in order to match a C/S to my 0360
>>A1A from Vans.
>>--
>>Chet Razer
>>crazer(at)egyptian.net
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Hi,
Contact Whit Whitson at Crossville Flying Service (TN) 615-484-5016. He has
a McCauley prop off of a late model Mooney. It only had 67hrs ttsn, but had
a prop strike. He has since sent it to a prop shop and has had it repaired.
I think it was 73" long, but some guys have cut these props down to 70"
without yellow tag. Don't quote me but I think it can be had for some where
in the $2500.00 range.
Louis Smith
lsmith(at)coastalnet.com
RV-8 #80126>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lsmith(at)coastalnet.com (Louis E. Smith Jr.) |
| Subject: | Re: Constant Speed Prop |
>The same appears to be true for Governors, by the way. Shocked at the way
>the price of the Woodward governor has gone from $875 to $1200 in 15
>months, I started looking for a used one. One of the prop shops I called
>told me that his WHOLESALE price on that governor was $1700.
>
>BEst Regards,
>
>Dave Barnhart
>barnhart(at)a.crl.com
>rv-6 sn 23744
>Trimming the canopy
>
>
>
Dave,
Mark Frederick put me in touch with EMI in Tulsa, OK. 1-800-851-4392 Tell
them you are an experimental and don't need a yellow tag. I just bought a
fresh overhauled governor for my IO-360 for 325.00.
Louis Smith
lsmith(at)coastalnet.com
RV-8 #80126>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin lane <kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Flaps & Tip-Up |
Scott Gesele wrote:
>
> There has been some discussion on the list lately about the interference
> from the electric flap option and the tip-up canopy's latching mechanism. The
trick is to install the weldment for the
> canopy latch prior to fitting the electric flap motor brace. (I didn't thinking
if it was included with the fuse kit it was intended
to be installed then.)If the flap
> assembly is installed first and per the drawings, the canopy weldment will
> hit the flap's diagonal brace. (Van's denies this problem exists) At this pint,
I know of no other alternative
> but to redo the flap brace. If the weldment is already in place, the
> diagonal channel can be positioned behind the weldment. This involves
> adding a 3/16" spacer between the diagonal flap motor support and it's
> attachment tab.
>
> As far as the flap weldment hitting the above referenced brace, don't just
> blindly follow Van's given dimensions for it's position on the floor. Use
> it as a starting point, hook up a battery and cycle the motor through it's
> full range.(in fact it WILL collide with the brace as drawn) After your satisfied
that you have the proper clearances then
> drill the upper and lower portions of the brace.(so for $200+ you want drawings
too?)
>
>
>LESSON LEARNED? read the directions, um, I mean, read the archives :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
Well, after 25 months and a couple of quarts of blood, RV6A N427EM lifted off
from the Caldwell, ID airport at 12:30 pm today!
The C182 chase plane made a valiant effort, but I had to keep sneaking up on
it from behind for the necessary visual inspections and photos.
The flight was 100% uneventful. The aircraft flew beautifully straight, with
no heavy wing tendancy, and the most difficult part of the flight was trying
to keep the power up and lose altitude at the same time. What an amazing
airplane!
I want to offer my sincere thanks to everyone on this list for their help,
moral support, and technical knowledge that got this bird off the ground.
Ed Bundy (FLYING!)
Boise, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Interior Painting of the Fuselage |
aol.com!RV6junkie(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
> << I am also at the stage of needing to paint the interior of my cockpit.
> Unfortunately, I primed the whole thing with variprime. I believe I may end
> up with alot of scratches eventually showing green. What kind of durable
> paint can I put over the variprime that will resist the wear and tear of
> getting in and out of the cockpit.
> >>
>
> I used a Dupont paint that contains Vinyl that is used to paint dashboards
> and other interior surfaces of cars. I used it on my IP and other interior
> surfaces that are not covered by fabric. It is durable and cleans up real
> well. It also goes on very nice.
>
> Gary Corde
> RV-6 N211GC
I simply painted over my variprime with marhyde. I got the idea from
Jim Cone who writes our local newsletter after I saw his project. It's
a nice light grey neutral color that does not reflect and If I get tired
of it I'll just scuff it up and paint over it since it is a primer. It
does scratch however, but I guess most paints do. The nice thing is
that it's inexpensive and touch up can be done out of an aerosol can.
Chet: Finishing 6A canopy latch
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Temperature Considerations |
>That's because with the drop light you heated the skin unevenly. The article
>in the 14/16 Years of the RVAtor pointed out how if you were to take a sheet
>of aluminum and point a heat gun at the middle, it would bulge up. And if you
>heated one spot on the edge, the whole sheet would warp like a curved peice of
>slot car track.
Richard; not to argue, but I think you called this one wrong. I don't have
the 14/15 year thing, but I have the original article in the RVAtor. The
light had a shield on it and it was moved around almost constantly in the
chamber. The shield was between the bulb and the skin it was to heat, i.e.,
and area heater. I didn't use a thermometer on it, but I feel sure the skin
was heated fairly even.
Regardless, I didn't get the results that I had hoped for, for what ever
reason. But I feel that it was not due to lack of attempt to heat the skins
evenly.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Epoxy in the F607BLKHD, skin overlap joint? |
Can someone tell me how long the tab of belly skin should be the attaches to
the bottom of the wing? I've got a dimension off the dwgs but in the manual
it says the tab attaches to the wing between the spars! If that's true the
dimension is all wrong! Which is correct? Thanks. Mal rvbildr(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
rv-list(at)matronics.com,Internet writes:
Well, after 25 months and a couple of quarts of blood, RV6A N427EM
lifted off
from the Caldwell, ID airport at 12:30 pm today!
Ed Bundy (FLYING!)
Congratulations Ed.
Doesn't it feel good to write "Flying" after your sig instead of
"canopy " or "wings"
I still get a kick when I write it.
Hows about a quick summary of your configuration.
Ken RV6A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Hollendorfer <phredyh(at)ix.netcom.com> |
aol.com!EBundy2620(at)matronics.com wrote:
> Well, after 25 months and a couple of quarts of blood, RV6A N427EM >lifted off
from the Caldwell, ID airport at 12:30 pm today!
> The C182 chase plane made a valiant effort, but I had to keep sneaking >up on
it from behind for the necessary visual inspections and photos.
>
> The flight was 100% uneventful. The aircraft flew beautifully > > straight,
with no heavy wing tendancy, and the most difficult part of > the flight was trying
> to keep the power up and lose altitude at the same time. What an > > amazing
airplane!
>
> I want to offer my sincere thanks to everyone on this list for their > help,
moral support, and technical knowledge that got this bird off > the ground.
>
> Ed Bundy (FLYING!)
> Boise, ID
> ebundy2620(at)aol.com
Congrats Ed!
Thanx for sharing you success. Well Done!! Fred>
--
FC Hollendorfer
RV-8, Getting Ready, Garage & Tools
Wheat Ridge, CO
phredyh(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What type of paint / primer for the engine mount ? |
Scott Johnson wrote:
>
> I am getting ready to paint the engine mount but am not sure what to use.
> Some builders have used high temperature engine enamel (500 degrees) and
> have complained that it chips to easy and then rusts. I have an epoxy
> primer (randolph epibond), but fear that it may not like the intense heat of
> the engine compartment.
If the heat in your engine compartment is that intense then you had
better bail out or land and run for a fire extinguisher. I painted the
valve covers of the C-85 in my C-140 along with the engine mount using
DuPont's Corlar epoxy primer followed by Imron. The 'high heat' paint I
used on the cyl. heads discolored (darkened) but after hundreds of hours
the Imron on the covers (and mount) still looks 'wet'. I am doing the
same with the RV-4, and am also doing the intake tubes, pushrod tubes
and misc. other (relatively low-heat) areas with the Imron. O-320.
Scott
N4ZW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | The Smiths <kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com> |
| Subject: | RV6 Tail spars to jig brackets |
My first real q:
Time to mount the HS and/or VS spar to the jig to set the rest of the
tail skeletons in place. (YEAH, Yeah. they're both done, one at a time
in the jig...)
the question: Got some 1.5 X 1.5 angle scrap to make the brackets. The
plans say 1.5" base to hole centers. I can see no reason 1.25" won't
work. If so I can use the scrap angle, save a buck or two. Please
advise if 1.25" is high enough.
Ken Smith RV6 tail with no holes, cept those I punch in it.
kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Lower Flap Link Rod End Bearing |
>It would still be nice to have some hard numbers for the Canadian builders to
>throw back in the face of the Canadian inspectors. Assuming 40 degrees of
>flaps at 100 MPH, what is the load on the rod end? (It's been a while since
>someone posted formulas to the list :-)
>
Ok, this is just an estimate. Assuming that the average person is able to
lift 40 pounds with his/her right hand (in the sitting position) then since
the flap handle is 18 1/2" from the hinge point to the middle of the grip on
the handle end and 7 1/2" to the flap end we can assume that 40 pounds of
lift on the handle end will equal approximately 98 2/3 pounds of force on
the flap rod.
Let's allow that someone built like me could in a panic pull 100 pounds;
that still is only 246 2/3 pounds of force on the rod end bearing. That
kind of force should not be a problem.
By the way, I have had my flaps 20 degrees extended at up to 160 MPH and
fully extended during takeoff with no damage or problems.
I'd like to say that it was just for test purposes. Sorry, can't say that;
it's not good to be distracted at critical times----.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-8 Spars Are Close... |
Just a quick note to let all of you RV-8 builders that I just got home from
helping Wayne Stonecipher at Phlogiston (flow gist on) drill the first set of
production RV-8 spars. I know it's been way too long and appologize for the
delay. It won't be too long now that the machinery is up and running. A
couple of weeks to deburr, anodize and rivet them together and we'll be ready
to start shipping. I know I'm more than a little prejudice but, they really
look great!
We are finishing up the fuselage and getting ready to start on the finishing
kit items. I think we are going to have to put together one more fuselage
before releasing the kit. Too many little corrections and additions to the
pre-punched skins were required for me to be comfortable without building
another one. Several of the employees in the company are going to help build
it after hours to avoid more delays in the project.
Andy Hanna
AHanna2(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | larry <lhoatson(at)deltanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What type of paint / primer for the engine mount ? |
Scott Johnson wrote:
>
> I am getting ready to paint the engine mount but am not sure what to use.
> Some builders have used high temperature engine enamel (500 degrees) and
> have complained that it chips to easy and then rusts. I have an epoxy
> primer (randolph epibond), but fear that it may not like the intense heat of
> the engine compartment. If I used variprime first, what would I put over it
> to stand the high temps ? Any advice greatly appreciated.
>
> Scott Johnson
Have you considered powder coating? I recently did the mount on the
Cessna 170A I am restoring, and it turned out nicely.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | catbird(at)taylortel.com (TTC Carroll A. Bird) |
aol.com!EBundy2620(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Well, after 25 months and a couple of quarts of blood, RV6A N427EM lifted off
> from the Caldwell, ID airport at 12:30 pm today!
>
Hi Ed:
Congratulations on your's and Seven Echo Mike's maiden flight.
I am sure you are on cloud nine. Can't wait till I can write (flying)
behind my name.
You asked about spinner to propeller clearance. I think that 1/8
would be just about right. The "spirit" of the installation would be a
very even clearance around the profile of the prop. In the Oct. 93 issue
there is a very good article about spinner installation by Tony Binglis.
Once again congrats. The -6A is a good airplane, the middle
wheel is just on the wrong end :-)
Carroll Bird
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Congradulations, Ed. I'm sure you have one of those smiles on you face
now!
Good luck on future test flights...
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>Well, after 25 months and a couple of quarts of blood, RV6A N427EM
>lifted off
>from the Caldwell, ID airport at 12:30 pm today!
>
>The C182 chase plane made a valiant effort, but I had to keep sneaking
up on
>it from behind for the necessary visual inspections and photos.
>
>The flight was 100% uneventful. The aircraft flew beautifully straight,
with
>no heavy wing tendancy, and the most difficult part of the flight was
trying
>to keep the power up and lose altitude at the same time. What an
amazing
>airplane!
>
>I want to offer my sincere thanks to everyone on this list for their
help,
>moral support, and technical knowledge that got this bird off the
ground.
>
>Ed Bundy (FLYING!)
>Boise, ID
>ebundy2620(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Tail spars to jig brackets |
<< If so I can use the scrap angle, save a buck or two. Please
advise if 1.25" is high enough.
Ken Smith RV6 tail with no holes, cept those I punch in it.
kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com >>
If you have a bucking bar that will reach around the skin to let you shoot
the trailing edge rivets, go ahead. You could also shoot/squeeze them after
you remove this assy from the jig....
check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Tail spars to jig brackets |
> the question: Got some 1.5 X 1.5 angle scrap to make the brackets. The
> plans say 1.5" base to hole centers. I can see no reason 1.25" won't
> work. If so I can use the scrap angle, save a buck or two. Please
> advise if 1.25" is high enough.
The angle brackets you use must be tall enough so that the trailing edge
of the skins when mounted over the skeleton leaves enough clearance to the
horizontal member of the jig that you can reach in and squeeze your rivets.
Other than that, the airplane hasn't the vaguest clue how you've mounted it
for drilling and riveting.
More important than this is that the holes you mount to must lie in a
straight line -- both horizontally and vertically. Otherwise you'll get
binding in the hinge to the control surface.
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
14190 47th Ave N.
Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles H Fink <CHFINK(at)envc.sandia.gov> |
>>>>Well, after 25 months and a couple of quarts of blood,
RV6A N427EM lifted off
from the Caldwell, ID airport at 12:30 pm today!
Ed Bundy (FLYING!)<<<<<<
Way to go Ed! Now if you need a destination for your first
cross-country next month come on down to New Mexico
and some of us RVers will show you around.
Charles Fink, RV-6 flying
chfink(at)envc.sandia.gov
Albuquerque, NM, USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Tail spars to jig brackets |
>the question: Got some 1.5 X 1.5 angle scrap to make the brackets. The
>plans say 1.5" base to hole centers. I can see no reason 1.25" won't
>work. If so I can use the scrap angle, save a buck or two. Please
>advise if 1.25" is high enough.
>
>Ken Smith RV6 kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com
Ken, This would probably work but might be a little cramped for setting the
trailing edge rivets. You might think about mounting your angles on some
blocks of wood that would raise the assembly an inch or so higher and then
screwing the blocks to the cross member. Bob Skinner RV-6 350 hours
BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
>Well, after 25 months....The aircraft flew beautifully....What an amazing
>airplane!
>Ed Bundy (FLYING!)
>Boise, ID
>ebundy2620(at)aol.com
YES!!!!!!!!!!! So, it IS possible....these multiple slabs of aluminum
brought together can actually clear the ground!!! Me Next, Me Next (wishful
thinking).
Now, Ed, PLEASE don't forget your friends here on the list that lust for the
feeling of the first flight. Not that you would. I, for one, have enjoyed
your postings and look forward to hearing about the adventures of test
flying. We ground-pounders need the vicarious flight hours you will provide.
WAY TO GO Mr. BUNDY!!!!
Micheal
RV-4 232 SQ
mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Philip I Arter <arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu> |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD79E.9201B290
Way to go Ed! That's the way to do it.
Phil
arter(at)ncar.ucar.edu
----------
From: aol.com!EBundy2620(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, 1996 November, 20 19:25
Subject: RV-List: AIRBORNE!
Well, after 25 months and a couple of quarts of blood, RV6A N427EM lifted off
from the Caldwell, ID airport at 12:30 pm today!
The C182 chase plane made a valiant effort, but I had to keep sneaking up on
it from behind for the necessary visual inspections and photos.
The flight was 100% uneventful. The aircraft flew beautifully straight, with
no heavy wing tendancy, and the most difficult part of the flight was trying
to keep the power up and lose altitude at the same time. What an amazing
airplane!
I want to offer my sincere thanks to everyone on this list for their help,
moral support, and technical knowledge that got this bird off the ground.
Ed Bundy (FLYING!)
Boise, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD79E.9201B290--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "E. Amadio" <e_amadio(at)vaxxine.com> |
| Subject: | Crankshafts in the RV-6A Vortec Conversion |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD7B8.34E381A0
Bill Phillips:
I have been watching the progress of your conversion =
since you first started posting to the list and am convinced it is the =
way to go.
You may have seen the dyno test data I supplied to the =
list during the earlier discussions. If you would reply to me directly =
with your E-mail address I may be able to help with specific information =
re: the engines' durability. We currently are running a long term (520 =
hour) durability test on the latest series engine.
Hope to here from you soon.
Ernie Amadio
Cessna C-170-B C-FJJK
e_amadio(at)vaxxine.com
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD7B8.34E381A0--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: What type of paint / primer for the engine mount ? |
[snip!]
> There has been some discussion about this previously. Powder coating has
> some structural properties of its own such that it is possible cracks could
> develop in an underlying structure but be "papered over" by the powder coat.
[snip!]
> Leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
I remember this discussion on the rv-list. As I recall, there was one
person who said he had first-hand knowledge of this in his experience
with auto racing. Someone else later "theorized" about it. Funny how
this sort of thing sometimes gets propogated until it is a "known
fact". I'm not claiming that these people are wrong, but based on
this small amount of data I wouldn't be too quick to throw out powder
coating as an option for my engine mount.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:ELT palcement |
O.K. I know this has been touched on before but I need to know a consensus.
The RV's are more critical as far as locating built-in weight, especially
the RV-4. Conventional wisdom/custom is to locate the ELT somewhere in the
tail of the aircraft under the assumption that, if all else is destroyed,
the tail and the ELT will servive (yikes). I have resigned to locate the
ELT in the baggage compartment which will stick 3.3 permanent pounds back
there and be rather in the way. I need thoughts on locating it forward, say
on the sidewall with the attach nuts for the bracket under the cheek
fairings. Is this not wise? If the airplane meets the ground hard enough
to distroy the ELT, isn't most everything else gonna go too (again yikes)?
Michael
RV-4 232SQ
mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | what type of paint/primer for the engine mount |
The following article by Ben Owen appeared in EAA Technical Counselor News,
Summer 1996, Safety Section:
"Powder coating of steel tube structures makes them look very attractive, but
it may not be the best solution for checking out the structure underneath.
Many kit manufatururers are using Mig welding with powder coating over this,
and unfortunately, the welds cannot be seen. As these aircraft age, it is
almost essential to remove the powder coating to check the welds from time to
time. Also, many of these welds have not been normalized after welding, which
is still the recommended aircraft process. MIG welding is known to require
extremely competent welders, and if cracks do generate in MIG welding, it is
usually at the beginning or end of the weld.
It would be particularly important when inspecting a landing gear. This is
starting to show up on some two place high-wing aircraft; where MIG welds were
not normalized after welding and then were powder coated."
As for my first RV-6A, I used PPG/Ditzler DP-40 primer followed by Krylon
automotive engine spray paint in a grey color which almost matched the
Lycoming grey engine paint. Easy to apply, it left a medium gloss finish that
was not prone to chipping. I intend to use this again, but maybe in a lighter
color, if available.
Les Williams
lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com
Empennage complete, RV-6A #2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:ELT palcement |
I put mine in the baggage area on the 'shelf' structure.
I have the sensensich metal prop so I am not that worried about
the weight at the aft end. I can still cram a lot of stuff in
the baggage area and I find it is not a problem.
It has a remote switch wired up in the front of the cockpit.
I put the antenna inside the cockpit, next to the roll over bar.
That way it has no external drag and it the plane flips over it
it protected by the roll bar.
Herman
RV4 flying
> O.K. I know this has been touched on before but I need to know a consensus.
> The RV's are more critical as far as locating built-in weight, especially
> the RV-4. Conventional wisdom/custom is to locate the ELT somewhere in the
> tail of the aircraft under the assumption that, if all else is destroyed,
> the tail and the ELT will servive (yikes). I have resigned to locate the
> ELT in the baggage compartment which will stick 3.3 permanent pounds back
> there and be rather in the way. I need thoughts on locating it forward, say
> on the sidewall with the attach nuts for the bracket under the cheek
> fairings. Is this not wise? If the airplane meets the ground hard enough
> to distroy the ELT, isn't most everything else gonna go too (again yikes)?
>
> Michael
> RV-4 232SQ
> mikel(at)dimensional.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What type of paint / primer for the engine mount ? |
>I remember this discussion on the rv-list. As I recall, there was one
>person who said he had first-hand knowledge of this in his experience
>with auto racing. Someone else later "theorized" about it. Funny how
>this sort of thing sometimes gets propogated until it is a "known
>fact". I'm not claiming that these people are wrong, but based on
>this small amount of data I wouldn't be too quick to throw out powder
>coating as an option for my engine mount.
>
>Randall Henderson, RV-6 randall@edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing
Randall, I remember asking someone at Van's factory several years ago about
powder coating when I attemded the builder's workshop. It sounded like an
attractive option as it was my understanding that, besides being very
durable, it could be flexed quite a bit without cracking. I thought this
would be ideal for the gear legs. They advised against it but I'm not sure
I remeber why. It may have been because of the temps involved. Or, maybe
it was just because it had not been done by the factory and therfore they
had no first hand knowledge of the pluses and minuses of the process.
Bob Skinner RV-6 350 hours BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Davis" <jdavis1(at)ford.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What type of paint / primer for the engine mount ? |
[snip!]
> There has been some discussion about this previously. Powder coating has
> some structural properties of its own such that it is possible cracks could
> develop in an underlying structure but be "papered over" by the powder coat.
[snip!]
> Leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
>I remember this discussion on the rv-list. As I recall, there was one
>person who said he had first-hand knowledge of this in his experience
>with auto racing. Someone else later "theorized" about it. Funny how
>this sort of thing sometimes gets propogated until it is a "known
>fact". I'm not claiming that these people are wrong, but based on
>this small amount of data I wouldn't be too quick to throw out powder
>coating as an option for my engine mount.
>Randall Henderson, RV-6
>randall(at)edt.com
>http://www.edt.com/homewing
I believe that Maule Aircraft now powder coats the entire fuselage of all their
aircraft.. It was an option, but they had such success with it that they have
made it standard.
--
Jeffrey S. Davis - Phone (313)845-5224
Senior Research Engineer
Advance Vehicle Technology
Ford Motor Company
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Hoatson <lhoatson(at)deltanet.com> |
Does anybody have a quickbuild kit in their possession, or on order?
If so, what is your opinion of it? If possible, can you compare it with
an owner-built project.
Thanks
Larry - finishing C170A restoration, and looking ahead
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillAkin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild Kits |
My RV-6A has been flying three years now . I built it from a kit furnished
prior to all the fabrication being done for you now. I have a friend now
building one of the original ten RV-6 quick build kits. Van's was not totally
pleased, as I understand, with the quality of the first ten shipped and
discounted them to those builders. I have had occasion to look it over pretty
good and the quality is good. If the next ones off the line are even better
and I were to build another ( by the way mine is an award winner), I would
buy the quick build in a heartbeat even though I like building OK. The work
you get for the price is unbeatable.
Hope this helps.
Bill Akin RV-6A N85TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hsu <hsubox(at)proaxis.com> |
I'm just in the planning stages of my RV6A project. I have the preview plans
and will be ordering the empennage kit soon. I am looking for some help in
deciding on the type of air gun that is best for the type of riveting done
with this kit. Avery has the 2X and 3X and recommends checking with local
builders for the particular project. Does anyone have a preference?
Thanks,
John Hsu RV6A starting
hsubox(at)proaxis.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
> Congratulations on your's and Seven Echo Mike's maiden flight.
> I am sure you are on cloud nine. Can't wait till I can write (flying)
> behind my name.
Thanks Carroll, it is an amazing feeling.
Ed Bundy (flying) ...still have trouble believing it....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
> Congradulations, Ed. I'm sure you have one of those smiles on you face
> now!
> Good luck on future test flights...
Thanks Fred! It is an AMAZING feeling.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
MODEL: RV6A
DATE FINISHED: 11-19-96 (not sure if it will ever be "finished")
TOTAL TIME: 3.3
ENGINE: 0320-D1A from Van's
PROP: Sensenich fixed metal
CANOPY: Slider
STARTER: Stock Lyc
ALTERNATOR: Van's
VOLT. REG.: Van's solid state
BATTERY: Concord RG 25
EXHAUST: Vettermans SS crossover
ELEVATOR TRIM: manual
FLAPS: manual
BRAKES: Pilot side only TIRE PRESSURE: 30
PANEL: VFR, E.I. tach and ultimate analyzer, TKM comm, Narco Xpdr, Magellan
GPS, AM/FM/cassete, G meter, (oil p&t, ammeter, voltmeter all Van's
auto-type)
LIGHTING: Whelen wingtip nav/strobe/position
PAINT: None yet
INTERIOR: See paint
INSURANCE: Avemco (ouch!) but they cover 1st 10 hours.
OTHER (MISC): I mounted the oil cooler on the firewall with Van's kit -
installation was very easy, and with a cockpit actuated block off door the
temps stay at 180 with OAT of 20F. Used Rick Robbins' heat muffs, they work
well.
PROBLEMS: Nothing major. Trying to keep MAP high (for engine break-in)
while descending in the pattern is tough, speed brakes would be nice :)
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
I've got one, and the quality is *excellent*. I've built my own
empennage and consider myself to be more
anal retentive than many, and I'd say the quickbuild is as good or
better than my own work. The flaps
and ailerons are beautiful. Don't know what else I can tell you, were
you wondering about anything
specific?
--------------------- cut here
--------------------------------------------------------------
Mitch Faatz mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com San Jose, CA
RV-6AQME N727MF (reserved)
Finished with empennage, working on floor pans and seats
>----------
>From: Larry Hoatson[SMTP:deltanet.com!lhoatson(at)matronics.com]
>Sent: Friday, November 22, 1996 3:19 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Quickbuild Kits
>
>Does anybody have a quickbuild kit in their possession, or on order?
>
>If so, what is your opinion of it? If possible, can you compare it with
>an owner-built project.
>
>Thanks
>Larry - finishing C170A restoration, and looking ahead
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
I used a 2x gun for my entire RV4 project and it worked fine.
Sid Golden, long time tool supplier to the large aircraft companies
and fellow RV builder, recommended the 2x gun.
I think the 2x means it is suited for 1/8 inch rivets. The RV is
built with 1/8 inch and the smaller 3/32 rivits.
Sid's point was that the 2x is a little smaller and easier to work
with than the 2x. Either size has enough power to destroy AL in
a microsecond :).
If you rivet your own spar, that is best done with another tool as
described in Tony's article (the arbor press and a large hammer).
The only place I felt my 2x gun was maybe underpowered was trying
to back rivit the top wing. I did not like this method as you hve
to driver a long dog-leg rivet set on the inside of the wing.
I ended up doing it per the published plans and it worked fine.
Herman
dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
> I'm just in the planning stages of my RV6A project. I have the preview plans
> and will be ordering the empennage kit soon. I am looking for some help in
> deciding on the type of air gun that is best for the type of riveting done
> with this kit. Avery has the 2X and 3X and recommends checking with local
> builders for the particular project. Does anyone have a preference?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John Hsu RV6A starting
> hsubox(at)proaxis.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
You wrote:
>
>Avery has the 2X and 3X and recommends checking with local
>builders for the particular project. Does anyone have a preference?
>
>Thanks,
>
>John Hsu RV6A starting
>hsubox(at)proaxis.com
John, I have a 3X and think I would go with a 2X if I had it to
do again. I got over-aggressive with some rivets, which is
easier to do with a 3X. On the larger rivets, it might take
an extra half second to set the rivet properly, but I think it
helps avoid dinging the metal.
Having said that, I think you can work with either gun. Hope
this helps some.
Best regards,
Bill Costello
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Building RV-6 | Reserv N97WC
Want an extra hour and a half of energy per day with Super Blue
Green products? Email for info or call 800-325-7544 Chicago
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
I built two rv-4's with a used 3X; then I helped a friend who had a 2X
with a swivel head flush set. We riveted both wings without a ding in
either, I'm sold! Next AC I'll be buying a 2X to complement my 3X (I
think a 2X is a little light for the -4 rivets)
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
On Fri, 22 Nov 1996, John Hsu wrote:
> I'm just in the planning stages of my RV6A project. I have the preview plans
> and will be ordering the empennage kit soon. I am looking for some help in
> deciding on the type of air gun that is best for the type of riveting done
> with this kit. Avery has the 2X and 3X and recommends checking with local
> builders for the particular project. Does anyone have a preference?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John Hsu RV6A starting
> hsubox(at)proaxis.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Where do I put the engine oil cooler? |
I also mounted my oil cooler behind #4 cyl on the baffle and, like John Darby,
my 0-320 ran too cool. I ended up blocking off the air inlet, like a lot of
other RVers in the northwest have, to increase the temperature. I've always
wondered why this worked, just like the ball valve worked for John, since
there is a thermostatic valve in the engine which, I understand, should
control the oil flow to maintain a minimum operating oil temperature? Does
anyone have an answer to this? Also, does anyone know of an RV-6 or 6-A with
an 0-360 that has experienced high oil temperatures with the oil cooler
installed as above?
Les Williams
lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com
Empennage complete, RV-6A #2
Waiting on QB tip-up 6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillAkin(at)aol.com |
The 2X gun is plenty big. Besides, it has a shorter nose piece which puts you
closer to the work thus making the gun more stable. One problem I see all the
time is many people use too much air pressure when setting 1/8" and 3/32"
rivets and therefore beat dents into the .032 and less skins used on the RV.
Use as little air pressure as possible to get a good set of the rivet. Takes
a little practice. When you paint the airplane (or even before), you'll be
glad. I am sure you know, but there is not a better tool supplier for this
project than Bob Avery. He ain't the cheapest, but you can't beat the value
of the tools he has.
Good Luck
Bill Akin RV-6A 85TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Calin Brabandt" <cwbraban(at)ichips.intel.com> |
In response to Larry Hoatson's question about QB kits:
I do not have one in my possession, but I've looked at several at
Van's and they are of excellent quality. Better than most first-time
builders could do, but they would probably not bring home trophies
at OSH. Realistically, most builders should probably give up the
fantasy of capturing such a trophy. In fact, they usually give
up such delusions by the time they complete the tail kit.
I think most QB kits will turn out better than the average non-QB kit,
but only time will tell. With the the traditional kit however, the
builder has the advantage of first acquiring skills on smaller,
less expensive parts and I think the learning curve is more of
a progressive "building block" kind of experience with the traditional
kit. Either way, you'll get a great airplane in the end.
Cal N66VR (about to start finishing kit)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
John Hsu wrote:
>
> I'm just in the planning stages of my RV6A project. I have the preview plans
> and will be ordering the empennage kit soon. I am looking for some help in
> deciding on the type of air gun that is best for the type of riveting done
> with this kit. Avery has the 2X and 3X and recommends checking with local
> builders for the particular project. Does anyone have a preference?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John Hsu RV6A starting
> hsubox(at)proaxis.com
Hi John.... This is one of the standard questions (one of many) that all
new builders ask. Let me suggest that you connect to WWW.Matronics.com
and use the search tools at that site. This site is hosted by Matt
Dralle (sp) as is this list. He mantains a database of all these
questions and answers. To answer your question thou... I would get a 3x
gun. Most jobs can be done with a 2x but some are easier with a 3x.
Chicago Phneunatic's are among the best.
Where are you located???
--
Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark D Hiatt" <OttoPilot_MSN(at)msn.com> |
The afternoon that I bought my tail kit from Van, there were two guys walking
around and around the RV-6Q out in the front yard. Well, actually, there was
always a crowd there but two guys in particular I remember helping one another
up and down and looking under this and inside that and sighting down the
fuselage from back-to-front and eyeballing the wingtips and so on. Finally,
one of them said to the other "Well, Hell. I've got three years and *lots*
more than $20,000 in my project, and it's not this done and doesn't look this
good!"
I've all but decided that when I finish my tail, I'm in for the discounted
Q-bird, now.
Mark D Hiatt
OttoPilot_MSN(at)msn.com
Aviation Forum Manager,
The Microsoft Network
"Lincoln Nebraska's Largest Manufacturer of Personal Aircraft"
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of aol.com!BillAkin(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 22, 1996 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Quickbuild Kits
My RV-6A has been flying three years now . I built it from a kit furnished
prior to all the fabrication being done for you now. I have a friend now
building one of the original ten RV-6 quick build kits. Van's was not totally
pleased, as I understand, with the quality of the first ten shipped and
discounted them to those builders. I have had occasion to look it over pretty
good and the quality is good. If the next ones off the line are even better
and I were to build another ( by the way mine is an award winner), I would
buy the quick build in a heartbeat even though I like building OK. The work
you get for the price is unbeatable.
Hope this helps.
Bill Akin RV-6A N85TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild Kits |
> Does anybody have a quickbuild kit in their possession, or on order?
>
> If so, what is your opinion of it? If possible, can you compare it with
> an owner-built project.
I do NOT have a quick-build kit, but my plane is built up to quick-
build stage. I have had the opportunity to look pretty closely at the
quick builds however. I would have to say that if I had to make a
choice between starting with a quick build and someone else's partially
built first effort, I'd probably go with the quick build.
One thing to remember is that when you're first starting out, you
don't have an eye for the details that someone who has built or
partially built one will have. Couple this with the fact that you may
be going to some other state to get the thing, or even buying it
sight-unseen, and it makes difficult to really know for sure what you're
getting. On the other hand, the quick-build business is monitored by
Vans and every kit comes through their shop and is inspected before
going out to a customer.
I have to admit that even though I take a lot of pride and care with
my project, in many respects (not all however) the quick builds
(excepting maybe the 10 or so in the first batch) look better than
mine does. The primary differences are that they have worked out the
"gotchas", and use a lot of tooling in the form of jigs, templates,
etc, which makes for a much more consistent product and a lot fewer of
the kind of mistakes that first time builders like me make. I have
been able to recover from several boo-boos, but still they are "fixes"
that you will not find on the quick-builds.
The one area that I think my plane is a little better is in the rivet
setting itself. Only a little, but I think overall I have just a
little bit smoother dimples. BUT... I also have a couple of dents
where the bucking bar slipped off (AARGH!!!). I suppose there may be a
few of those on the quick builds but I never spotted any.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack & Diane Mahler & Joy <jax(at)brett.reno.nv.us> |
John, I have a 2x and 3x. I started with the 3x and found I had to dial
the air down to near nothing to prevent over hitting the rivet, and had
a couple of runaways (; The 2x hits faster, but is easier to control
and has all the power necessary for everything but the spar, and is
easier to control. Hope this helps
Jax, on my 6-A wings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SteveRV6(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild Kits |
<< lding one of the original ten RV-6 quick build kits. Van's was not totally
pleased, as I understand, with the quality of the first ten shipped and
discounted them to those builders. I have had occasion to look it over
pretty
good and the quality is good. If the next ones off the line are even better
and I were to build another ( by the way mine is an award winner), I would
buy the quick build in a heartbeat even though I like building OK. The work
you get for the price is unbeatable.
Hope this helps.
Bill Akin RV-6A N85TX
>>
Bill,
I agree. I don't own a quick build (working on the tail now), but saw one
in San Antonio. There is no doubt I will finish using the quick build. The
owner told me there was a light coating of rust on the wing spar, but he
resanded as best he could and reprimed. I guess these kits go across the
ocean twice. The primer the quickbuild uses is Sherman Williams (that's my
understanding, and I also believe Van's uses a different mixture than
recommended). So, maybe the rust is an indicator that the Sherman Williams
primer is not that great or the mixture could be different. Anyway, I will
still order it, take a good look at the spar for rust and reprime as
necessary. I really like the Dupont Variprime. Steve, Austin, Tejas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
>
> MODEL: RV6A
> DATE FINISHED: 11-19-96 (not sure if it will ever be "finished")
> TOTAL TIME: 3.3
> ENGINE: 0320-D1A from Van's
> PROP: Sensenich fixed metal
> CANOPY: Slider
Ed,
Thanks for the info. You must have saved a blank form or pulled it off
the archives?
For any new listers with flying RVs, we have a blank form to fill in data
about your airplane, if you'd like to participate. I don't know what key
word for a search you would use for the blank form but if any of you would
like one, E-mail me off list and I'll send it to you. Please post it back
to the list as I'm sure there are others who would be interested. Also,
feel free to add anything additional about your airplane that is not on the
form.
Bob Skinner RV-6 350 hrs. BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
>I built two rv-4's with a used 3X; then I helped a friend who had a 2X
>with a swivel head flush set. We riveted both wings without a ding in
>either, I'm sold! Next AC I'll be buying a 2X to complement my 3X (I
>think a 2X is a little light for the -4 rivets)
>
>Dan Boudro
>RV-4 N9167Z
>Albuquerque, NM
>dboudro(at)nmia.com
Dan, I agree about the 2X possibly being a little light for the #4 rivets.
It seemed to be that it took too long to set them. It got the job done but
I worried a little about work hardening the #4s. I built my six with a 3X
and just turned the air down for the #3s. The first time I used a 2X was on
the Glastar that I'm building now. The size is an advantage on the 2X and I
havn't used the 2X on #4's since we got the more powerful air compressor, so
maybe it will work better, now.
In response to an earlier post:
An earlier post talked about setting the #6 spar rivets with a 3X or 4X
gun. I've never tried a #4 to set #6 rivets, but my gut feeling is that a 5
or 6X would be better. I plan on sticking with the Avery tool to set the #6
rivets. The tool works great and saves the expense of buying an arbor press.
Bob Skinner RV-6 350 hrs. BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hsu <hsubox(at)proaxis.com> |
To all that responded to my questions on the air tools.... Thanks, you were
all very helpful. I can't wait to get started on my project. I sounds like
the quick-build will be the best way to go. I will be starting with the
empennage kit to gain experience working with metal. Thanks again everyone.
Regards,
John
> I used a 2x gun for my entire RV4 project and it worked fine.
> Sid Golden, long time tool supplier to the large aircraft companies
> and fellow RV builder, recommended the 2x gun.
> I think the 2x means it is suited for 1/8 inch rivets. The RV is
> built with 1/8 inch and the smaller 3/32 rivits.
> Sid's point was that the 2x is a little smaller and easier to work
> with than the 2x. Either size has enough power to destroy AL in
> a microsecond :).
>
> If you rivet your own spar, that is best done with another tool as
> described in Tony's article (the arbor press and a large hammer).
>
> The only place I felt my 2x gun was maybe underpowered was trying
> to back rivit the top wing. I did not like this method as you hve
> to driver a long dog-leg rivet set on the inside of the wing.
> I ended up doing it per the published plans and it worked fine.
>
> Herman
> dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
>
>> I'm just in the planning stages of my RV6A project. I have the preview plans
>> and will be ordering the empennage kit soon. I am looking for some help in
>> deciding on the type of air gun that is best for the type of riveting done
>> with this kit. Avery has the 2X and 3X and recommends checking with local
>> builders for the particular project. Does anyone have a preference?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John Hsu RV6A starting
>> hsubox(at)proaxis.com
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hsu <hsubox(at)proaxis.com> |
Hi Rick,
Thanks for the info and the reply. I am located in Corvallis Oregon. I will
be looking into the WWW.Matronics.com for additional info. Thanks again.
John
>John Hsu wrote:
>>
>> I'm just in the planning stages of my RV6A project. I have the preview plans
>> and will be ordering the empennage kit soon. I am looking for some help in
>> deciding on the type of air gun that is best for the type of riveting done
>> with this kit. Avery has the 2X and 3X and recommends checking with local
>> builders for the particular project. Does anyone have a preference?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John Hsu RV6A starting
>> hsubox(at)proaxis.com
>
>Hi John.... This is one of the standard questions (one of many) that all
>new builders ask. Let me suggest that you connect to WWW.Matronics.com
>and use the search tools at that site. This site is hosted by Matt
>Dralle (sp) as is this list. He mantains a database of all these
>questions and answers. To answer your question thou... I would get a 3x
>gun. Most jobs can be done with a 2x but some are easier with a 3x.
>Chicago Phneunatic's are among the best.
>
>Where are you located???
>--
>Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
In reference to the QB kits, I said:
> The one area that I think my plane is a little better is in the rivet
> setting itself. Only a little, but I think overall I have just a
> little bit smoother dimples.
Well, I just stopped by there to deliver some VAF mugs (order yours
today!) and they were crating up a QB fuselage, and I looked it over,
and... well, I'm not so sure about the above. I don't think my
rivets look any _worse_ than the QBs, but I'm not so sure they look
better any more either... :-(
Not surprising I guess -- they've built a few of them by now so they
have a lot more practice than I do!
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
>I'm just in the planning stages of my RV6A project. I have the preview plans
>and will be ordering the empennage kit soon. I am looking for some help in
>deciding on the type of air gun that is best for the type of riveting done
>with this kit. Avery has the 2X and 3X and recommends checking with local
>builders for the particular project. Does anyone have a preference?
>
>Thanks,
>
>John Hsu RV6A starting
>hsubox(at)proaxis.com
John:
If you can accept an input from an outsider (GlaStar builder) who has been
reading your mail for a week or so, there are two tools that you are going
to be living with for the next year or so (your rivet gun and your drill).
You shoul get the best of each that you can afford. A 2x gun is all that
you will need and will be much easier to control than the bigger gun. You
should look for a surplus Chicago Pneumatic gun that has been
reconditioned. (new ones cost several hundred dollars) There is no
comparison between these guns and the new imports. They are much much
better. Clinton has been a good source.
You will probably spend more time with your drill and the best available is
the little 1/4" Sioux. It is a little more expensive than the imports, but
there is no comparison. Both Avery and Cleaveland carry them and they are
both outstanding dealers. I buy from both of them and have bought Sioux
drills from each. Cleaveland carrys the 3,600 rpm version though and Bob
Avery does not (did not) and that is the one you want. The extra 1,000 rpm
makes a big difference.
Again excuse the intrusion of a lowlife GlaStar builder, but I could not
figure out how to haul my girl friend, camping and fishing gear plus a
folding kayak to Baja in an RV.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Tail spars to jig brackets |
> the question: Got some 1.5 X 1.5 angle scrap to make the brackets. The
> plans say 1.5" base to hole centers. I can see no reason 1.25" won't
> work. If so I can use the scrap angle, save a buck or two. Please
> advise if 1.25" is high enough.
>
I don't remember if 1.5" was mandatory for some clearance reason, but the
brackets are not supporting much weight and do not need to be very beefy. I
just bent sufficiently sized pieces of .032 aluminum into an angle and used
that. Worked perfectly. Just make sure you align the holes as perfectly as
possible. Dental floss works well.
Ed Bundy - RV6A N427EM flying 3 days
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com (Doug Weiler) |
| Subject: | Baffling material |
Fellow Listers:
A quick question: I'm about to replace the aluminum baffling in my Citabria
and was looking in the RV plans to see what material is used. I didn't see
any specified. My past experience with 2024T-3 is that is a very
susceptable to cracking when used as a baffle. I previously tried 6061T-6
with very good results in my 180.
Opinions???
Doug
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
= Doug Weiler, pres. MN Wing, Van's AirForce, RV-4 in progress, N722DW
= 347 Krattley Lane
= Hudson, WI 54016
= 715-386-1239
= email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | catbird(at)taylortel.com (TTC Carroll A. Bird) |
Bob Skinner wrote:
> An earlier post talked about setting the #6 spar rivets with a 3X or 4X
> gun. I've never tried a #4 to set #6 rivets, but my gut feeling is that a 5
> or 6X would be better. I plan on sticking with the Avery tool to set the #6
> rivets. The tool works great and saves the expense of buying an arbor press.
>
> Bob Skinner RV-6 350 hrs. BSkinner(at)krvn.com
I agree about the deepthroat rivet tool of Avery's.
I riveted my -4 wing spars with it and I don't think you could do a much
better job with any tool. I looked at a ready made spar and the rivits
are not set as uniform as mine.
Carroll Bird - fuselage out of jig.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
>If you can accept an input from an outsider (GlaStar builder) who has been
>reading your mail for a week or so, there are two tools that you are going
>to be living with for the next year or so (your rivet gun and your drill).
>You will probably spend more time with your drill and the best available is
>the little 1/4" Sioux. It is a little more expensive than the imports, but
>there is no comparison. Both Avery and Cleaveland carry them and they are
>both outstanding dealers. I buy from both of them and have bought Sioux
>drills from each. Cleaveland carrys the 3,600 rpm version though and Bob
>Avery does not (did not) and that is the one you want. The extra 1,000 rpm
>makes a big difference.
>
>Again excuse the intrusion of a lowlife GlaStar builder, but I could not
>John Top
>Phone: (619) 549-3556
John,
The RVer's don't mind a Glastar builder on the list once in awhile (as
long as you've built a RV, first.)
John is right about that Sioux drill. Being a conservative RV-6 builder
and one with highly varible income (cattle business), I bought a generic,
3/8" drill and I guess it works 'cause the airplane has 350 hrs on it.
However, the guy who owns the Glastar kit that I'm helping build bought the
high speed 1/4" Sioux drill (from Cleaveland?) and it's a dynamite drill.
Small, easy to handle and quiet when compared to mine, I told him he'd
better keep an eye on it when I move to Wyoming next summer. It may just
hop into my toolbox. Since I've been a very good boy, this year, I probably
owe myself this little treat (approx. $ 245.00). It's been a long time
since I bought anything from Avery and I'm sure he misses me.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <James.E.Clark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild Kits |
Larry Hoatson wrote:
>
> Does anybody have a quickbuild kit in their possession, or on order?
>
RV6A Quickbuid in possesion. Purchased during OSHKOSH timeframe.
> If so, what is your opinion of it? If possible, can you compare it with
> an owner-built project.
We have a few very experienced builders locally who have built some nice RV's.
Without exception they say the quality of my QB kit is great! These are retired
guys who have a LOT of experience with metal things that cheat gravity and guys
who had the time to build a total of three RV's rather nicely.
I am new to this but I must say that if the quality of **my** riveting etc, is
anywhere near as good as that on the QB already, I will be ecstatic.
Therefore, I can recommend it without hesitation.
Now I must say that I have noticed some little things that I may eventually
suggest to Van's as "improvements for newbies", but I want to be confident that
they really make sense and are not simply weaknesses on my part.
>
> Thanks
> Larry - finishing C170A restoration, and looking ahead
James E. Clark
"Marooned in seat bottoms ..."
James.E.Clark(at)worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Hartmann <hartmann(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Yeller Page revision online |
RV listers. Gary's 11/22/96 revision of the Yeller Pages is available
online at http://www.sound.net/~hartmann/yelrpage.htm
- Mike
hartmann(at)sound.net
http://www.sound.net/~hartmann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild Kits |
Larry,
I have just finished the empenage, non-prepunched, and have moved
on to a quickbuild for the balance of the project. I am at about 100
hours into the quickbuild and am pleased with what I have worked with
and have seen so far. It is great to be working on big assemblys for a
change. I believe it is a good value..!
Ron Vandervort,RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Where do I put the engine oil cooler? |
>there is a thermostatic valve in the engine which, I understand, should
>control the oil flow to maintain a minimum operating oil temperature? Does
>anyone have an answer to this? Also, does anyone know of an RV-6 or 6-A with
>an 0-360 that has experienced high oil temperatures with the oil cooler
>installed as above?
>
>Les Williams
Les; I thought like you do, that the thermostatic valve would control the
temp. if it had a cooler in the loop. Studying the oil system layout in the
overhaul manual, it sure appeared that way. But no soap. All that I can
think of is that the valve is not that well adjusted or is not sensitive
enough to do the trick. Therefore, I had to add the ball valve.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Baffling material |
<< My past experience with 2024T-3 is that is a very
susceptable to cracking when used as a baffle. I previously tried 6061T-6
with very good results in my 180. >>
6061 will last longer, as you noted.
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net> |
John Top wrote:
>
> >I'm just in the planning stages of my RV6A project. I have the preview plans
> >and will be ordering the empennage kit soon. I am looking for some help in
> >deciding on the type of air gun that is best for the type of riveting done
> >with this kit. Avery has the 2X and 3X and recommends checking with local
> >builders for the particular project. Does anyone have a preference?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >John Hsu RV6A starting
> >hsubox(at)proaxis.com
>
> John:
>
> If you can accept an input from an outsider (GlaStar builder) who has been
> reading your mail for a week or so, there are two tools that you are going
> to be living with for the next year or so (your rivet gun and your drill).
> You shoul get the best of each that you can afford. A 2x gun is all that
> you will need and will be much easier to control than the bigger gun. You
> should look for a surplus Chicago Pneumatic gun that has been
> reconditioned. (new ones cost several hundred dollars) There is no
> comparison between these guns and the new imports. They are much much
> better. Clinton has been a good source.
>
> You will probably spend more time with your drill and the best available is
> the little 1/4" Sioux. It is a little more expensive than the imports, but
> there is no comparison. Both Avery and Cleaveland carry them and they are
> both outstanding dealers. I buy from both of them and have bought Sioux
> drills from each. Cleaveland carrys the 3,600 rpm version though and Bob
> Avery does not (did not) and that is the one you want. The extra 1,000 rpm
> makes a big difference.
>
> Again excuse the intrusion of a lowlife GlaStar builder, but I could not
> figure out how to haul my girl friend, camping and fishing gear plus a
> folding kayak to Baja in an RV.
>
> John Top
> Phone: (619) 549-3556
John,
Who is Clinton, and how do you get ahold of him/them. A good source for
air tools??
Ed Cole
emcole(at)concentric.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
| Subject: | Re: Pearlescent Paint Process ? (2) |
>>Good Topic Bill,
>>
>>Learning to paint pearlescent is high on my list of priorities. I am=20
>>absolutely taken with the paint job on Nemisis and every time a =
Cadillac or=20
>>Lexus passes me I say "oooh baby, that's what my plane is going to look=
=20
>>like".
>>
>>If anyone has experience painting pearl I'd love to ask you some dumb=20
>>questions about the process. Also if someone happens to know the exact =
paint=20
>>that the two guys from Nebraska (Sport Av. August, I believe) used I'd=20
>>greatly appreciate the info.
>>
>>Eric Henson
>>>>>While you're at it, comment on the difference between settling rate =
of=20
>>the
>>newer mica-based pearlescent finishes vs aluminum metalflake.<<<<<<<
>>
>>Bill Boyd
>>RV-6A canopy
>>SportAV8R(at)aol.com
I am experimenting with a PPG (I think) material which is called
Sunfire, a polyurethene 2 part paint which has (I'm told)
extraordinary properties due to the mica based pearlesent suspended in
it. It is mixed to order and I am trying to duplicate bright aluminum
as seen on polished aircraft. (Having had one, I know what it takes to
keep it that way!), It is quite expensive at $175 a gallon plus $40 a
gal for haderner..... But should be very durable and may provide the
finish I'm looking for. I will apply this with my HVLP Lexaire gun,
which spays with shop air and expect to apply it over an exopy primer
made by Proline, a marine paint mfgr that is local to here in San
Diego. I have found automotive paints not to be suitable, due to
durablity (parking a plane outdoors for a number of years show the
paint detrioration plainly), Same with the highly touted aitplane
paints. Marine polyurethene very durable but a really high gloss is
hard to get. The new water based paints are gorgeous, but the long
term durability has not been determined. I'm hoping this new paint
is the answer and will keep those interested informed.....
Bill Nash
AIRCRAFT REMANUFACTURING=20
VISTA, CA. 92084 (619) 749 0239 FAX: 749 6384
Sales Directory: Infobot(at)pdsig.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
| Subject: | Re: 0-320's in Cessna 172's info |
A very informative article about 0-320 Lycomings in 172's (and
others) is available from
http://gtravis.ucs.indiana.edu/Aviation/C172.ENGINES.txt
In particular it discusses in detail the H2AD model which has been
severely maligned here on the list by the "experts"......
It is copyrighted or I would make it available myself through our
"infobot"....
Bill Nash
AIRCRAFT REMANUFACTURING=20
VISTA, CA. 92084 (619) 749 0239 FAX: 749 6384
Sales Directory: Infobot(at)pdsig.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: Constant Speed Prop |
Louis:
>Mark Frederick put me in touch with EMI in Tulsa, OK. 1-800-851-4392 Tell
>them you are an experimental and don't need a yellow tag. I just bought a
>fresh overhauled governor for my IO-360 for 325.00.
Thanks. I'v gotton a similar deal from Warner Props in Tucson AZ.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
November 14, 1996 - November 23, 1996
RV-Archive.digest.vol-cd