RV-Archive.digest.vol-ce
November 23, 1996 - December 03, 1996
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
My good friend, Scott McDaniels, formerly owner of Arizona Aerocrafters and
now working in Van's prototype shop, has reluctantly decided to put his
beautiful RV-6A up for sale for financial reasons only. Scott's airplane
is absolutely the FINEST specimen of an RV-6A that I have ever seen. I'm
posting the following info on Scott's behalf. I apologize for its length:
RV-6A N64SD SN 20010
- Completed / First flight March 1993
- Selected to fly in Homebuilt Showcase OSH 1993
- Awarded "First Place Metal" at 1993 Copperstate Fly-In
- Sun & Fun 1994 Sun 100 Race clocked at 199.65 mph.
- Photo in Sport Aviation Aug 1996, Pages 86 & 87
General Information:
- Tri-Gear RV-6A, 495 hrs total time since new
- Sliding canopy
- Manual flaps
- Manual elevator trim
- Manual aileron trim
- Dual brakes
- Parking brake
- Cabin heat
- Dual fresh air vents
- Optional 2-piece tight-fitting main wheel pants
- Navigation lights
- 3 position dual-flash strobe lights
- Dual wingtip-mounted landing lights (RMD)
- Basic IFR panel
- Airplane is currently certified for day and night VFR
Engine Compartment:
- Lycoming O-320-D3G w/MA4 Carb.
- 1560 Hrs SMOH; 420 Hrs since IRAN overhaul
(at 1140 SMOH engine was disassembled for inspection and parts
repaired or replaced as necessary. Engine was then reassembled.
I do not consider it to have recieved a total overhaul so I am
not representing it as one -- S.M.)
- All accessories (mags, harness, fuel pump, vac. pump, alternator,
carburetor) except for starter were either new or overhauled.
- Last Annual March 1996
- Compression at last Annual 77/76/78/77
- Remote mounted oil filter
- Oil sump quick drain
- Primer system
- High Country 4-into-2 exhaust system
- Standard filtered airbox with carb heat
- Performance propellers 63 X 66, 3-blade fixed-pitch prop
Instrument Panel:
- Full flight instrument group with true airspeed indicator
- Piper cluster gauge with L & R fuel levels, fuel pressure, oil
pressure, oil temp.
- Recording tach.
- Vacuum gauge
- G-meter
- Magnetic compass
- Electronics International Digital Volt/Amp gauge
- Electronics International Digital Fuel Flow Totalizer
- Electronics International Digital EGT
- Electronics International Digital CHT/OAT
- Flightcom 403 stereo intercom, configured for stereo or mono
headsets and with auxiliary input and output jacks. PTT's on
each stick.
- King KX-155 Nav/Com with Glideslope
- King KI-203 Rectilinear VOR/LOC/GS indicator
- King KT-78A upgraded to KT-76A transmit power
- IImorrow Apollo Flybuddy Loran with data card
- All panel instruments and equipment except the G-meter lighted either
internally or with post lights
- The airplane has been operated exclusively on 100LL aviation fuel
- Oil and filter changed every 35-40 hours, with Aeroshell 15W50
semi-synthetic oil used exclusively.
- The airplane is painted on the interior and exterior with
PPG Durethane polyurethane paint.
- The firewall is insulated, fwd floor and side panels are
insulated and upholstered or carpeted.
- The airplane was professionally built and maintained by Scott
McDaniels, an A&P, and current employee of Van's Aircraft Inc
in the prototype shop.
- This RV-6A is at the top-end of the scale in construction quality
and performance, as attested to by anyone who has flown in it or seen it.
- For financial reasons only, this RV-6A is regrettably being
offered for sale.
- Asking price is $71,000 USD
- The owner is willing to upgrade/reconfigure the airplane to the
wants/needs od the purchaser.
- For questions, or for more information please contact:
Scott McDaniels
7288 S.W. 204th Ave #3
Aloha, OR 97007
(503) 848-0637 (evenings or weekends)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
> Thanks for the info. You must have saved a blank form or pulled it off
> the archives?
> For any new listers with flying RVs, we have a blank form to fill in
data
> about your airplane, if you'd like to participate. I don't know what key
> word for a search
My pleasure Bob. If anyone is interested you can search for "panel:" (with
the colon) and it will pull up the form.
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Morristec(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: What type of paint / primer for the engine mount |
?
Leo,
Be aware that there are many different materials used in powder coating. The
term powder coating applies to the process of applying a layer of powered
material to the stubstrate while the part is heated. It's sort of like
melting the powder to the part. They include nylon based materials, epoxies,
vinyl materials, etc. Some of the coating thicknesses range from paint like
3-4 mils to 30 to 60 mils. It all depends on what you want the powder
coating to do. The vinyl based material would definitly be capable of hiding
cracks as they are very flexible, the nylon probably. The epoxy materials
are similar to paint, but more durable and would be acceptable. I have
specified this coating for exposed steel aircraft parts with good succes and
the ability to detect cracks (at least as good as paint). Hope that I have
confused you enough. Your local powder coating applicatior should be able to
fill you in with the details if you ask.
Dan Morris,
Morristec(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Morristec(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Baffling material |
Doug,
Your are right 6061 T6 would be better from a cracking standpoint, but then
5052 H32 or H34 would be better. The 6061 and 5052 will both be as stiff as
the 2024 (almost) but you might want to think twice if anything is attached
to the baffles as neither have the tension strength of 2024 T3. Then again
if this is for a Citabria it is a certificated airplane and you can't change
anything from the manufacturers approved configuration anyhow (at least not
legally). BTW Van calls for 2024 T3 and thats what I used. If you want to
stop the cracks make sure the edges and corners are smooth (320 sandpaper),
and apply a non-corrosive RTV in the drilled hole in the corners wher flanges
are bent. This seems to dampen the vibrations and greatly reduces cracking.
BTW if you have a crack, after stop drilling apply RTV to reduce the chance
of the crack from growing.
Dan Morris
Morristec(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Morristec(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Where do I put the engine oil cooler? |
Les and John,
If you have an oil system schematic (available in the Lycoming maintenance
manual or operating manual) you will see that the thermostatic valve is
installed in parallel with the oil cooler. This compare this to the
thermostat in your cars cooling system which is in series. What this means
is that oil circulates in the oil cooler as a function of pressure drop
across the valve (i.e. the valve is open when no cooling is called for and
closed when cooling is needed). The reason this is done this way is 2 fold.
First, oil always circulates in the oil cooler to some extent (the reason
that your engine runs to cool). This prevents the oil in the cooler from
becoming stagnent and congealing. Note that the valve does not close off the
flow to the cooler but rather the flow to the engine, thus diverting oil to
the cooler. Second, if the valve was in series like your car, all of the
engine oil would have to circulate all of the time through the cooler.
Otherwise there would be no oil flow to the engine when the valve was
closed. When the thermostatic valve closes some minimum amount of oil is
still allowed to flow directly to the engine distribution galleries without
passing through the cooler. Otherwise a cooler blockage would result in no
oil pressure and the related excitement. Generally obstructions in the oil
cooler line, like the ball valve are not a good idea as it can introduce the
problems listed above. Lycoming always recommends blocking the airflow.
Without a drawing this may not be perfectly clear. Hope I haven't confused
the issue more.
Dan Morris
Morristec(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John McMahon <rv6(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Nipendeso Alt. charge problems |
Have a small problem with the charging system vans setup.
Have nipendesco #14184 vans part number.Have vans new wet cell battery
not the gell cell.Have vans regulator non adjust type,Ace electrical
#1751. The problem is the amp guage needle moves to + side aprox 3 amps
then moves back to 0 .It does this every second,or less.
I am getting aprox 14.7 charge voltage.
I would think that I would get a steady charge of 3 amps or so.
ANY POINTERS ??????
THANKS
JOHN MCMAHON RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | 6A tip up rear glass |
On an RV6A tip up canopy rear glass, has anyone used a simple washer
with a 1/8" hole as a bearing surface for the plexi pop rivets instead
of the long pieces of .025" as shown in the construction photograph.
Seems like they'd be lighter and easier.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Where do I put the engine oil cooler? |
Dan;
>installed in parallel with the oil cooler.
I agree with this interp. of the schematic.
> First, oil always circulates in the oil cooler to some extent (the reason
>that your engine runs to cool).
Not if I have the ball valve completely closed!! (Trouble coming on???)
>This prevents the oil in the cooler from
>becoming stagnent and congealing. Note that the valve does not close off the
>flow to the cooler but rather the flow to the engine, thus diverting oil to
>the cooler.
But what happens when an oil cooler is not used? I understand it is an
option with the E2D. At least, the parts manual seems to imply this as an
option, since it (the thermostatic valve) is not listed on all of them. Is
the thermostatic valve removed completely if a cooler is not used?
>Second, if the valve was in series like your car, all of the
>engine oil would have to circulate all of the time through the cooler.
>Otherwise there would be no oil flow to the engine when the valve was
>closed. When the thermostatic valve closes some minimum amount of oil is
>still allowed to flow directly to the engine distribution galleries without
>passing through the cooler.
I understand this, sim. to the small "leak" hole in a cars thermostat.
>Otherwise a cooler blockage would result in no
>oil pressure and the related excitement. Generally obstructions in the oil
>cooler line, like the ball valve are not a good idea as it can introduce the
>problems listed above.
Then why doesn't my oil pressure reflect something when I rapidly open or
close the valve, which cuts off all flow to the cooler?
>Lycoming always recommends blocking the airflow.
I was not aware of this. Of course, there are many things of which I am not
aware of. If you remember the source, I would appreciate it.
>Without a drawing this may not be perfectly clear. Hope I haven't confused
>the issue more.
I had studied the schem. in the overhaul book already, thought that I
understood it. I think I understand what you are saying, therefore the
above questions and I appreciate your input. Please, don't take my
questions as being argumentive or smart assed. They are honest, even tho
some may consider dumb, questions on my part.
It hasn't confused me, or at least not any more than I was to begin with.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | rv-list: Where do I put the engine oil cooler? |
Dan,
Thanks for your info on this. Seems that the best location for the oil cooler
is where a fully controllable air door can be installed. I have a door, which
I believe came from Aircraft Spruce. But, on my first RV-6A utilizing an
0-320, it would not fit between the motor mount and the cooler which was
located behind the #4 cyl on the baffle. On an RV-6 using a wood prop, I
would look at mounting the cooler on the front baffle ahead of #2 cyl, for cg
considerations, if there is adequate room for a door. If not, and for other
0-320 equipped, I would mount it on the firewall even though space is somewhat
limited there. From my prior experience with this, my second RV-6A will
definitely have a cockpit operated, air control door on the oil cooler,
wherever it is placed. If anyone knows of an 0-360 equipped RV-6/6A with a
controllable door on their oil cooler located behind the #4 cyl on the baffle,
please post.
Les Williams
lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Baffling material |
>
>This seems to dampen the vibrations and greatly reduces cracking.
> BTW if you have a crack, after stop drilling apply RTV to reduce the chance
>of the crack from growing.
>Dan Morris Morristec(at)aol.com
Now's a good time to ask all of the flying RVers if they've had any trouble
with cracking baffles. It would be interesting to know what material the
baffles were made of and whether home made or from Van's kit. I used Van's
kit on my RV-6 and after 350 hours have zero cracks.
Bob Skinner RV-6 Bskinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nipendeso Alt. charge problems |
>Have a small problem with the charging system vans setup.
>Have nipendesco #14184 vans part number.Have vans new wet cell battery
>not the gell cell.Have vans regulator non adjust type,Ace electrical
>#1751. The problem is the amp guage needle moves to + side aprox 3 amps
>then moves back to 0 .It does this every second,or less.
>I am getting aprox 14.7 charge voltage.
>I would think that I would get a steady charge of 3 amps or so.
> ANY POINTERS ??????
>THANKS
>JOHN MCMAHON RV-6
John,
I have a Pelican alternator, Van's adjustable regulator adjusted to 14.1
to charge the RG battery. I've had the same problem. I get fluctuating
amps similar to yours and my voltage will jump between 14.1 to 14.3-14.4. I
have little Radio Shack lights that are on when the master is on and the
radio master is on and these lights will pulsate.
I put a generic Ford alternator on the plane that I got from Bob Nucholls
and the only thing that changes was that the charging voltage went up to
around 15.2 volts. After a few months, I put the old, adjustable regulator
back on.
My first RG battery lasted 1 1/2 years in the plane. I purchased it about
6 months before the first flight and never bench charged it as is
recommended. (Couldn't find the type of charger that Concorde recommends,
locally and catalog prices seemed very high.) My second RG battery went
right into the airplane and flew so I hope I have better life. I'm not sure
that that running the Ford alternator for several months was good for the
battery life, either.
Since I had on two regulators, my guess that there is something about the
alternator that is causing this.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Baffling material |
>>
>>This seems to dampen the vibrations and greatly reduces cracking.
>> BTW if you have a crack, after stop drilling apply RTV to reduce the chance
>>of the crack from growing.
>>Dan Morris Morristec(at)aol.com
>
>Now's a good time to ask all of the flying RVers if they've had any trouble
>with cracking baffles. It would be interesting to know what material the
>baffles were made of and whether home made or from Van's kit. I used Van's
>kit on my RV-6 and after 350 hours have zero cracks.
>
>Bob Skinner RV-6 Bskinner(at)krvn.com
Hi Bob
I have 200 hours on my RV-4 and no problems with the baffles. I think that
this was a good subkit.
Tom Martin
RV-4
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: 6A tip up rear glass |
rv-list(at)matronics.com,Internet writes:
On an RV6A tip up canopy rear glass, has anyone used a simple washer
with a 1/8" hole as a bearing surface for the plexi pop rivets instead
of the long pieces of .025" as shown in the construction photograph.
Seems like they'd be lighter and easier.
It would probably work but consider what it would look like...the
strips have a nice finished appearance.
Ken
RV6A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Nipendeso Alt. charge problems |
>>Have a small problem with the charging system vans setup.
>> ANY POINTERS ??????
>>THANKS
>>JOHN MCMAHON RV-6
>
John; For what it's worth. I have the same problem. The alt. needle
appears to be very 'nervous' at times and will vibrate rather rapidly (2-3
times per sec.) but does not do it all of the time. A load seems to slow it
down some, but at other times it stops on its own. I have a Ford 65 amp alt
with a Ford transit. adj. regulator. The battery is one for a wheel chair,
gelcell. The system has been up and running for almost three years now,
plus almost 6 months before flying. Still strong. I have become accustomed
to it's vibration, but it doesn't please me. I can hear a tic in the
headset when at idle, and the tic seems to be the same pulse as the
vibration. Volts don't vary.
Each time I feel about ready to pull the alt. and have it bench checked, the
next two or three flights, the damned thing is steady as a rock. Gremlins?
If I put a load, like the landing light, on, the magnitude of the vibration
is dampened, but not the frequency.
I know this doesn't help you solve your problem, but at least, don't feel
alone. I'm looking forward to someone coming up with an answer to you and
maybe helping me as well.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | rv-list: Where do I put the engine oil cooler? |
>From my prior experience with this, my second RV-6A will
>definitely have a cockpit operated, air control door on the oil cooler,
>wherever it is placed. If anyone knows of an 0-360 equipped RV-6/6A with a
>controllable door on their oil cooler located behind the #4 cyl on the baffle,
>please post. Les Williams lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com
Les, My oil cooler is mounted on the left front baffle and has a door
operatd by a buton lock control in the cockpit. No matter where the door is
placed, provisions should be made for "full air" in case of a failure such
as a broken fitting or control. My initial installation didn't have this as
I felt that if a bracket, etc. failed the incomming air would force the
door, which faced into the wind, open. Wrong. The first "L" bracket that I
made to attach the end of the control cable to was made out of bent .040"
with a large radius. The angle failed at about 20 hours and the door wnet
shut, cutting off any flow through the cooler. As I was only going a short
distance and there was 2 airports along my flight of 60 miles, I just
throttled back and made it home without landing and wiring the door open.
Had this occured in the middle of nowhere, this could have been a problem.
I now have an angle made out of .063" for the door and have not had any
problem. I also attached another angle to which a spring is attached that
will pull the door open in case of failure.
I think the door installation might be easier on the front hor. baffle.
BTW, when it's below 10 degrees, the oil temp won't get into the green with
the door completely shut.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Nipendeso Alt. charge problems |
> John; For what it's worth. I have the same problem. The alt. needle
> appears to be very 'nervous' at times and will vibrate rather rapidly (2-3
> times per sec.) but does not do it all of the time. A load seems to slow
it
> down some, but at other times it stops on its own. ....
>I can hear a tic in the
> headset when at idle, and the tic seems to be the same pulse as the
> vibration. Volts don't vary.
....
> If I put a load, like the landing light, on, the magnitude of the
vibration
> is dampened, but not the frequency.
> I know this doesn't help you solve your problem, but at least, don't feel
> alone. I'm looking forward to someone coming up with an answer to you and
> maybe helping me as well.
> John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
I had exactly the same symptoms on my Grumman AA1C. The problem magically
disappeared when the alternater crumped during a LONG cross country and I had
to get it replaced. If there's any way you can borrow a different alternator
and try it, I think it would be worth your time.
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ #60023
Closing the wings, building the rudder.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Tip up canopy builders tip |
Thought I'd pass this builders tip on to 6 or 6A tip up canopy
builders. Don't spend a lot of time making a perfect fit between your
F-671 forward top skin and the C-602 canopy skin until after you install
the two gas struts that help lift the canopy. When the canopy is in the
closed position both the struts are compressed and they exert a lot of
force pushing the canopy in a forward direction. If any slop exists in
the canopy hinge pins and pin blocks the relationship between the above
two mentioned skins changes. Also, the canopy side skirt fit also
changes.
Bottom Line: Dont do any final trimming or fitting until the gas struts
are in place.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
Final assembly of canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
>John,
>Who is Clinton, and how do you get ahold of him/them. A good source for
>air tools??
>Ed Cole
>emcole(at)concentric.net
Ed:
Yes there is more than one. Also there probably several places to buy
surplus tools. Probably the best are the surplus sales outlets of
aeropsapace companys. But Clinton is reliable and fairly priced.
Wayne Clinton, Clinton Aircraft Tool & Supply. (404) 766-3222, Fax (404)
766-3809.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillAkin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Nipendeso Alt. charge problems |
RV-6A N85TX has nearly 600 hours on it over a period of three years. Engine
is 0320E2D (oil screen only) swinging a 68 X 80 Sensenich wood prop. Used
Van's baffle kit and have had no cracks develope thus far. Cooler is mounted
back side of baffeling at #4 cyl with junction of baffling at #4 cylinder
reinforced with .062 2024 and a brace from the top inboard cooler bolt to
threaded hole at forward top of #4 cyl head. Baffle fit is as good as you can
get it and no sealant was used. Air tubes for both mags, vacuum pump and heat
muff were used in rear baffle. Oil temps, after warm up, range from 170
degrees at the lowest ambient temps to 230 degrees on hot day extended climbs
(rare - once or twice). Average cruise temps are in the 190-200 degree range.
Think vast majority of crack problems problems can be avoided with extra care
getting the edges of the aluminum abosolutely smooth and reinforcing certain
areas exposed to stress where attached to engine. Check that temp guage for
accuracy!
Concerning alternator problems, I used a rebuilt Ford alternater (Large ring
gear pulley and large as possible alternator pulley) and a Mark Landoll solid
state regulator. Knock on wood, though I know a couple of people who have
had problems, I've had no electrical problems at all (Scary Huh?). I suspect
it is the alternator in most cases that causes the problem. Make sure
alternator wiring is of adequate size and shielded.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com (Stephen Paul Johnson) |
Hi all,
It was suggested on the list awhile ago that a hand seamer could be
used to touch up the quality of the bend in the rudder trailing edge.
I just wanted to confirm that this trick works. After bending the
rudder so that it sits on the spar, I noticed that I still had some
bend that was too gentle between several of the stiffeners. This was
easily seen by testing the quality of the bend with a 6" rule as shown
on the Orndorff video.
The very careful application of my hand seamer between the stiffeners
with several layers of paper towels to protect the aluminum solved the
problem. I'm using the HS-30 offset hand seamer from Cleaveland. The
angle between the jaws in the open position happens to be just right
for this application.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121
spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: rv-list: Where do I put the engine oil cooler? |
> If anyone knows of an 0-360 equipped RV-6/6A with a
> controllable door on their oil cooler located behind the #4 cyl on the
> baffle,
> please post.
I believe this is the setup that George Orndorf used on his RV6A (the one in
the video construction. You might Email or call him.
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: rv-list: Where do I put the engine oil cooler? |
> I think the door installation might be easier on the front hor. baffle.
> BTW, when it's below 10 degrees, the oil temp won't get into the green
with
> the door completely shut.
According to my Lycoming manual, oil temps should be in the green before
takeoff. Am I wrong in my belief that this is impossible? I would think you
would have to sit on the ground at 75% for 10 minutes to make this happen.
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Nipendeso Alt. charge problems |
> The alt. needle
> appears to be very 'nervous' at times and will vibrate rather rapidly (2-3
> times per sec.) but does not do it all of the time. I can hear a tic in
the
> headset when at idle, and the tic seems to be the same pulse as the
> vibration. Volts don't vary.
FWIW, I have the same problem. Mine seems to do it more at flight power
settings, and I tend to hear the tic during a quiet passage when the stereo
is on. Otherwise I don't hear it, but it moves constantly.
My voltage also reads about 14.5-14.9 (however this is an analog gauge, so I
question the precision of this reading) for a while after engine start, then
it settles down to about 14.2 - Anyone think this is a bit high?
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
I have an idea. (Ow!) Would there be any interest in a hardcopy list of all
of the "listers"? For example, there are times when someone posts a message
saying "I'll be in (your city here) for a couple of days, and I'd like to get
together with RV builders in the area...".
What if everyone put their name, city, phone #, and whether they can offer a
room, hangar space, etc for an RV'er passing through; in a list?
My wife and I are starting to think about places to go, and it would be great
fun to stop in and visit other listers along the way. Reciprocating a place
to stay would be a great way to meet other listers and save everyone a fair
amount of $ that could be better spent on RV stuff.
Anyway, I'd be interested in compiling such a list and I could send it to
each member individually (rather than to the list where unscrupulous non-RV
types might use it to spam).
If interested here is a sample form (send info to ME and NOT to the list)
please use this format *without* using the fields. (so I don't have to strip
it out)
Name:
City/State:
Phone #: (I think this is important if one is on a trip and can not get to a
computer)
Email addr:
Overnight accommadations available:
Hangar / Tie-down available, airport name:
IMPORTANT - IMPORTANT - IMPORTANT!
IF YOU WISH TO PARTICIPATE PLEASE SEND THIS INFO TO: ebundy2620(at)aol.com AND
NOT TO THE RV LIST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: Nipendeso Alt. charge problems |
rv-list(at)matronics.com,Internet writes:
The battery is one for a wheel chair,
gelcell.
John, I also have a wheelchair battery. At what voltage do you have
your system set to?
Mine sems to have trouble cranking my high compression I0 360. My buss
voltage is now set at 14.2.
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: Tip up canopy builders tip |
rv-list(at)matronics.com,Internet writes:
Thought I'd pass this builders tip on to 6 or 6A tip up canopy
builders. Don't spend a lot of time making a perfect fit between your
F-671 forward top skin and the C-602 canopy skin until after you install
the two gas struts that help lift the canopy. When the canopy is in the
closed position both the struts are compressed and they exert a lot of
force pushing the canopy in a forward direction. If any slop exists in
the canopy hinge pins and pin blocks the relationship between the above
two mentioned skins changes. Also, the canopy side skirt fit also
changes.
Bottom Line: Dont do any final trimming or fitting until the gas struts
are in place.
To overcome some of this forward push force from the struts, I put a
bolt through each side of Wd 616 such that they came flush up against
F668. I reinforced F668 from the front. This prevents the canopy from
creeping forward.
Ken RV6A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chinkley(at)ix.netcom.com (Curtis R. Hinkley) |
| Subject: | Sterling VA RV8 builders update |
Just a little up date from the Sterling, VA RV8 builders. Mike and I
have completed our empennages and just finished inventorying our wing
kits. The wing kits were packed very well and we had no damage. There
sure are a lot of ribs.
On another note, I would like to talk with any RV8 builder who has
completed fitting their elevators to the horizontal stabilizer. We
have not drilled our elevator horns and would like to ask you some
questions concerning how much up and down travel your elevators have.
Would you email me with you phone number and a good time to give you a
call. Please send you number to my personal address and cc my work
address. This should cut down on the chatter to the list.
Home: chinkley(at)ix.netcom.com
Work: hinkleyc(at)fca.gov
Curtis Hinkley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bseckstein(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Nipendeso Alt. charge problems |
Being a former auto mechanic, I know that automobile charging systems are
supposed to provide between 14 and 15 volts. The potential difference is
needed to charge the battery. I would be happy if I saw the numbers you say.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Epoxy in the F607BLKHD, skin overlap joint? |
did you prep the aluminum any before priming?
John Bunn RV-8
80023 tail complete
catching up with the honeydew
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
>> What if everyone put their name, city, phone #, and whether they can offer
a
>> room, hangar space, etc for an RV'er passing through; in a list?
I have already started getting some ideas from folks on how to improve this
idea. Let's put the actual info - gathering on hold for a few days and if
you have any ideas on how to make this work please let me know. I'll then
try to combine the best features that I can.
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rv-list: Where do I put the engine oil cooler? |
>According to my Lycoming manual, oil temps should be in the green before
>takeoff. Am I wrong in my belief that this is impossible? I would think you
>would have to sit on the ground at 75% for 10 minutes to make this happen.
>
>Ed Bundy RV6A flying Eagle, ID ebundy2620(at)aol.com
Ed, My Lycoming Operator's Manual, states, "Engine is warm enough for
take-off when the throttle can be opened without the engine faltering." As
you believe, it would probably take 10 or more minutes at 75% power on the
ground, in really cold weather, to get the temp into the green. I hate to
think what this would do to the engine.
Another quote from the manual on the same page as the above states, "The
engines covered in this manual are air-pressure cooled and depend on the
forward speed of the aircraft to maintain proper cooling. Particular care
is necessary, therefore, when operating these engines on the ground."
I pre-heat my engine for about four hours when the temps fall much below
32 utilizing a EZ Heat pad on the sump and my aircraft is in a hanger out of
the wind. Even after 4 hours of pre-heat, the needle on the oil temp gauge
is barely off the stop.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tip up canopy builders tip |
>To overcome some of this forward push force from the struts, I put a
>bolt through each side of Wd 616 such that they came flush up against
>F668. I reinforced F668 from the front. This prevents the canopy from
>creeping forward.
>
>Ken RV6A Flying
When I built my tip up, I too, noticed the strong force exerted by the
struts when the canopy is in the closed position. I took the struts off to
finish up the installation. If you put the struts on without the forward
skin being clecoed on, you really get a lot of shifting around due to strut
pressure. That reminds me. I've got to order some new struts. I bought
the kit from Kieth Ellis at Boone, Iowa and he offered two different struts,
one softer than the other. I started with the stiffer strut while fitting
the canopy and thought they were too aggresive and so exchanged them for the
weaker strut. Now, after 1 1/3 years and 350 hours, the struts are quite
soft so I think I'll try the firmer struts next.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tip up canopy builders tip |
While on the subject of tip-up canopies, I have observed that, due to the
geometry of the gooseneck hinges and the presence of the lift struts, there
is no realistic way to jetison this canopy in flight. That being the case, I
wonder if the canopy jettison handle might just as well be omitted, and the
canopy removed when necessary by reaching under the instrument panel and
grasping/turning the bellcrank end that normally connects with the jettison
handle. Presumably, I'd carry a canopy knife to hack my way out in an
emergency.
BTW, I am concerned by the amount of manipulation under direct visualization
needed to get the canopy hinge pins into the hinge holes when reinstalling
the canopy after a work session. I am truly afraid that, with the fwd skin
riveted on, the hinges might be very difficult to line up again. Yes, my
hinge pins are tapered to a blunt point to aid insertion. Anyone else had
this problem? How about the tip-up frame getting hung up on the seat back
side rails when closing the canopy? Mine is forever getting snagged
cock-eyed as I close it. I plan to install some UHMW guide blocks on the fwd
face of the roll bar to guide the locking tangs and canopy frame into propper
position during closing. I saw a -6 done this way last year at the
Frederick, MD fly-in; now I know why.
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electronic Ignition |
Well, my Jeff Rose ElectroAire ignition arrived this week. The wife paid the
UPS man his $800.00 COD for this little package and figured I must have
ordered something from the Franklin Mint. First inspection shows a
decent-enough looking setup but it appears to already have been installed
somewhere... the base of the unit shows washer and bolt thread indentations.
I will have to ask Jeff about that. Perhaps he bench-tests each unit on the
firewall of his own aircraft. This man builds plastic airplanes and
Kitfoxes, so it might pay to be careful.
The ignition is intended to replace the left mag on my newly overhauled O-320
E2D. I will not be needing the ACS keyed ignition/starter switch I had
previously installed, so the switch and its pair of baggage/door lock
cylinders are now FOR SALE, to defray cost of the two toggle switches (one to
ground out the mag, the other to interrupt 12v to the ElectroAir unit) and
pushbutton starter switch that must now be installed in my panel.
The instructions are rather poorly written (worse than Van's manual when it
comes to grammar and typos) but hey, if Burt Rutan can make this thing work,
it must be doable. The packing list, for example, was for the flywheel
timing sensor kit, whereas I ordered and received the version that fits the
left mag hole. Sort of unsettling when the list and the box of parts don't
match. Fortunately it was the list that was wrong...
There is a variable setting (trim pot) inside the cover which is one of two
user-adjustable settings, but the directions state it is always to be left on
the lowest setting. Okay, so then why put it in there if it is never under
any circumstances to be changed?? This could get interesting. I am a long
way from flying, but will let the list know how it all turns out. Hey,
someone's got to try it. 15% fuel savings and all that ;^)
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
You wrote:
>
>
>>John,
>>Who is Clinton, and how do you get ahold of him/them. A good source
for
>>air tools??
>>Ed Cole
>>emcole(at)concentric.net
>
>Ed:
>
>Yes there is more than one. Also there probably several places to buy
>surplus tools. Probably the best are the surplus sales outlets of
>aeropsapace companys. But Clinton is reliable and fairly priced.
>
>Wayne Clinton, Clinton Aircraft Tool & Supply. (404) 766-3222, Fax
(404)
>766-3809.
>
>John Top
>Phone: (619) 549-3556
I'd be very careful in buying tools from this source if I were you.
Maybe I was the exception, but I got some real junk from this guy.
I got the impression that there was a father and son and that the
son was more interested in making money than anything else.
Best regards,
Bill Costello
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Building RV-6 | Reserv N97WC
Want an extra hour and a half of energy per day with Super Blue
Green products? Email for info or call 800-325-7544 Chicago
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Barry WARD <ward(at)axime.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Injection/CS Props |
Does anyone have any advice, experience etc. with Airflow Fuel Injection
systems when fitted to Lyc. O360A1A engines in an RV6
Can someone let me have the regular telephone number for Warner Props and
EMI Tulsa as 800 numbers don't work ouside US.
Many thanks
Barry Ward
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Hitchings" <wbroup(at)lantic.co.za> |
| Subject: | Re: Pressure settings for Rivetting |
Fellow Listers
What is the proper air pressure setting for the Avery 3X rivet gun?
Thanks for your help.
Brian Hitchings
Horizontal Stabilizer, RV6A
wbgroup(at)lantic.co.za
South Africa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harold Sutphin <hsutphin(at)magicnet.net> |
If you are building an RV, your name address and phone is on Van's list.
You can request a list from him by zip code.
Harold
RV6A//Wing Kit//
aol.com!EBundy2620(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> I have an idea. (Ow!) Would there be any interest in a hardcopy list of all
> of the "listers"? For example, there are times when someone posts a message
> saying "I'll be in (your city here) for a couple of days, and I'd like to get
> together with RV builders in the area...".
>
> What if everyone put their name, city, phone #, and whether they can offer a
> room, hangar space, etc for an RV'er passing through; in a list?
>
> Name:
> City/State:
> Phone #: (I think this is important if one is on a trip and can not get to a
> computer)
> Email addr:
> Overnight accommadations available:
> Hangar / Tie-down available, airport name:
>
> IMPORTANT - IMPORTANT - IMPORTANT!
> IF YOU WISH TO PARTICIPATE PLEASE SEND THIS INFO TO: ebundy2620(at)aol.com AND
> NOT TO THE RV LIST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Ed Bundy RV6A flying
> Eagle, ID
> ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au> |
Ed,
well done. Enjoy.
Royce
roycec(at)ozemail.com
About to skin Fuse.
>Well, after 25 months and a couple of quarts of blood, RV6A N427EM lifted off
>from the Caldwell, ID airport at 12:30 pm today!
>
>The C182 chase plane made a valiant effort, but I had to keep sneaking up on
>it from behind for the necessary visual inspections and photos.
>
>The flight was 100% uneventful. The aircraft flew beautifully straight, with
>no heavy wing tendancy, and the most difficult part of the flight was trying
>to keep the power up and lose altitude at the same time. What an amazing
>airplane!
>
>I want to offer my sincere thanks to everyone on this list for their help,
>moral support, and technical knowledge that got this bird off the ground.
>
>Ed Bundy (FLYING!)
>Boise, ID
>ebundy2620(at)aol.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tip up canopy builders tip |
41,43-44,46,48-54
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Listers,
I didn't use valuble panel space for the canopy ejection handle just
for this reason. Instead, I lengthened the WD-619 shaft weldment so that
it would reach the bottom level of the instrument panel, and then used
the WD-618 wldment as a handle. A simple snap pin into the base of the
F-668 holds this handle from turning. The canopy is easily removed by one
person, but requires two people to re-install it.
The UHMW guide blocks on the fwd face of the roll bar work well in
aligning the canopy during the closing process.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>While on the subject of tip-up canopies, I have observed that, due to
the
>geometry of the gooseneck hinges and the presence of the lift struts,
there
>is no realistic way to jetison this canopy in flight. That being the
case, I
>wonder if the canopy jettison handle might just as well be omitted, and
the
>canopy removed when necessary by reaching under the instrument panel and
>grasping/turning the bellcrank end that normally connects with the
jettison
>handle. Presumably, I'd carry a canopy knife to hack my way out in
anemergency.
>
>BTW, I am concerned by the amount of manipulation under direct
visualization
>needed to get the canopy hinge pins into the hinge holes when
reinstalling
>the canopy after a work session. I am truly afraid that, with the fwd
skin
>riveted on, the hinges might be very difficult to line up again. Yes,
my
>hinge pins are tapered to a blunt point to aid insertion. Anyone else
had
>this problem? How about the tip-up frame getting hung up on the seat
back
>side rails when closing the canopy? Mine is forever getting snagged
>cock-eyed as I close it. I plan to install some UHMW guide blocks on
the fwd
>face of the roll bar to guide the locking tangs and canopy frame into
propper
>position during closing. I saw a -6 done this way last year at the
>Frederick, MD fly-in; now I know why.
>
>Bill Boyd
>SportAV8R(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Timothy J. Etherington" <tjetheri(at)cca.rockwell.com> |
John wrote:
| From: | BillAkin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pressure settings for Rivetting |
Bryan:
Pressure settings needed for setting rivets vary with the size of the rivets
and to some extent metal thickness. First you need a small inline regulator
between the gun and air hose.so you can make small precise adjustments in the
pressure at the gun. Then practice with low settings increasing only to a
point necessary to set the rivet with a reasonably short bursts of the gun.
It's a trial and error sort of thing you need to practice on scraps and you
will eventually get the feel of technique you need on what work. Setting
rivets is a skill you will aquire only by practice.
Good shooting
Bill Akin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | Re: Tip up canopy builders tip |
I put some bolts through the tooling holes on the forward canopy frame
corners. By adjusting the length of the bolt, I have control of how
far forward the struts push the canopy. There is a reinforcing plate
on the sub panel where the bolt heads contact it.
David Fried
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RV-List: Tip up canopy builders tip
Date: 11/24/96 01:31 PM
Thought I'd pass this builders tip on to 6 or 6A tip up canopy
builders. Don't spend a lot of time making a perfect fit between your
F-671 forward top skin and the C-602 canopy skin until after you install
the two gas struts that help lift the canopy. When the canopy is in the
closed position both the struts are compressed and they exert a lot of
force pushing the canopy in a forward direction. If any slop exists in
the canopy hinge pins and pin blocks the relationship between the above
two mentioned skins changes. Also, the canopy side skirt fit also
changes.
Bottom Line: Dont do any final trimming or fitting until the gas struts
are in place.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
Final assembly of canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Alternators & Regulators |
It is normal for the load to vary. This is because the regulator is a
switch. What you are seeing on your guage is the curcit opening and closing.
I have a amp guage that that shows the actual load and in cruise flight it
will show anywhere from 3 to 15 amps draw. It changes every second because
strobes are charging and discharging, mikes are being keyed, CD's are sliding
in and out of the player..... there's alot going on every second in the
electrical system.
What's more important is that your system is charging you battery.
I'm using a Ford transister VR. From what my RV-buddies tell me, the B&C VR
does not have the large swings in output because it is linear (it's not being
"switched" on and off). However, my VR was $25 and the B&C unit is $200.
For an extra $25 I added a crowbar over-voltage regulator.
I like the cheep switch.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Baffling material |
Van's kit. No cracks. 80 hours. Baffling id baffling!
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder TE Trick |
I did this on my ailerons. Check that your seamer has a generous
radius at it's ends or you will have small marks with a 4 inch
spacing. :(
David Fried
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RV-List: Rudder TE Trick
Date: 11/24/96 03:59 PM
Hi all,
It was suggested on the list awhile ago that a hand seamer could be
used to touch up the quality of the bend in the rudder trailing edge.
I just wanted to confirm that this trick works. After bending the
rudder so that it sits on the spar, I noticed that I still had some
bend that was too gentle between several of the stiffeners. This was
easily seen by testing the quality of the bend with a 6" rule as shown
on the Orndorff video.
The very careful application of my hand seamer between the stiffeners
with several layers of paper towels to protect the aluminum solved the
problem. I'm using the HS-30 offset hand seamer from Cleaveland. The
angle between the jaws in the open position happens to be just right
for this application.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121
spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
Testing of RV6A N427EM is going very well. Vy appears to be about 1600fpm
solo at 2500' and 115mph. I'm getting a solid 165 CAS at 75% power with full
rich mixture at 5000'. This equates to a TAS of 175. I understand that
wheel pants and fairings are supposed to add 10-15mph, so 185-190 sounds just
like the factory specs. I imagine I'll get a couple extra mph when I start
leaning the mixture as well.
I REALLY like the Sensenich prop, it climbs and cruises very well, and
doesn't seem to be a compromise at either end.
I'm trying to keep the MP above 15-17" until short final, and this requires
a very judicious slip when entering the pattern to get into the flap arc. At
17" the airplane will fly level at 125! Amazing. Once I get full flaps
down, at 15" I get about a 500fpm descent rate at 80. I bring the power to
idle on final and bring it over the fence at 70.
At altitude I'm playing with the slow speed envelope and I get a stall
w/flaps right at 50. Once I get more comfortable with the airplane short
approaches at 60 should be no problem, and will have a much shorter runway
requirement.
BTW, one thing I was very interested in when I was finishing up was the FAA
inspection. Mine was fairly uneventful. I called the FSDO about 3 months
before hand to see if I needed to do anything. They just said to have all of
the paperwork in the package filled out for the inspector and to allow a
couple of days. When I called to schedule, I was told that they needed to
have 3 or 4 of the documents BEFORE the inspector came out. Ugh. So I
delivered those, got to talk to the inspector and he asked me few questions.
He came out 2 days later, spent about 45 minutes looking over the airplane
(no squawks!) and asked a few questions about the construction that I think
were "calibrated" to see if I actually built the airplane. He spent 5
minutes on my builders log (I just wrote down the date, time spent, and item
worked on) and about 5 minutes looking through my photo album. He was more
interested in the picture of a hawk flying in tight formation with my
ultralight than anything else.. :) He spent 10 minutes on the paperwork,
congratulated me and left. All in all, very painless and $225 cheaper than a
DAR.
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net> |
aol.com!EBundy2620(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> I have an idea. (Ow!) Would there be any interest in a hardcopy list of all
> of the "listers"? For example, there are times when someone posts a message
> saying "I'll be in (your city here) for a couple of days, and I'd like to get
> together with RV builders in the area...".
>
> What if everyone put their name, city, phone #, and whether they can offer a
> room, hangar space, etc for an RV'er passing through; in a list?
>
> My wife and I are starting to think about places to go, and it would be great
> fun to stop in and visit other listers along the way. Reciprocating a place
> to stay would be a great way to meet other listers and save everyone a fair
> amount of $ that could be better spent on RV stuff.
>
> Anyway, I'd be interested in compiling such a list and I could send it to
> each member individually (rather than to the list where unscrupulous non-RV
> types might use it to spam).
>
> If interested here is a sample form (send info to ME and NOT to the list)
> please use this format *without* using the fields. (so I don't have to strip
> it out)
>
> Name:
> City/State:
> Phone #: (I think this is important if one is on a trip and can not get to a
> computer)
> Email addr:
> Overnight accommadations available:
> Hangar / Tie-down available, airport name:
>
> IMPORTANT - IMPORTANT - IMPORTANT!
> IF YOU WISH TO PARTICIPATE PLEASE SEND THIS INFO TO: ebundy2620(at)aol.com AND
> NOT TO THE RV LIST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Ed Bundy RV6A flying
> Eagle, ID
> ebundy2620(at)aol.comEd,
I had a the same idea about a month ago with one response. Seems like
everyone wanted privacy. I got two responses. Good luck. I think its
a great idea. I email you privately with my info.
Ed Cole
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillAkin(at)aol.com |
Tim:
The weight of the bucking bar is the problem on the 1/8" rivets, not the gun.
Just imagine getting into those tight places with a gun with a longer nose
piece such as the 3X. The 2X has plenty of impact power for 1/8" rivets, but
raising air pressure to compensate for too small of a bucking bar will yield
diasterous results on either gun.
If you do not have enough room for a heavy enough bar, even for No. 3 rivets
consider blind rivets or a squeezer if it will fit. I have found that I can
drive an 1/8" rivet better than squeezing using a 2X gun where the bar weight
is adequate in lieu of the lighter squeezers typically used. ie Tatco.
Haven't tried Avery's squeezer but I understand it, being heavier than some
of the others, is quite adequate for No. 4's. I see no reason to waste money
by having a 2X & a 3X gun, at least not for an RV project.
Best regards,
Bill Akin
RV6A N85TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
Bob Skinner wrote:
>
> According to my Lycoming manual, oil temps should be in the green before takeoff.
Am I wrong in my belief that this is impossible? I
would think you would have to sit on the ground at 75% for 10 minutes to
make this happen.
> >
> >Ed Bundy RV6A flying Eagle, ID ebundy2620(at)aol.com
>
> Ed, My Lycoming Operator's Manual, states, "Engine is warm enough for
> take-off when the throttle can be opened without the engine faltering." As
you believe, it would probably take 10 or more minutes at 75% power
on the ground, in really cold weather, to get the temp into the green. I
hate to think what this would do to the engine.
> Another quote from the manual on the same page as the above states, "The engines
covered in this manual are air-pressure cooled and depend on
the forward speed of the aircraft to maintain proper cooling. Particular
care is necessary, therefore, when operating these engines on the
ground."
> I pre-heat my engine for about four hours when the temps fall much below
> 32 utilizing a EZ Heat pad on the sump and my aircraft is in a hanger out of
> the wind. Even after 4 hours of pre-heat, the needle on the oil temp gauge
> is barely off the stop.
> Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
Bob..
Preheating ABOVE 32 degrees isn't a bad idea either. Many warbird guys
preheat their oil even in the summer because it takes their 12 gallons or
so of oil a long time to heat up, and the engines are so expensive they
don't like wearing them out sitting on the ground warming up. In my
opinion, the closer you can get the engine to normal operating
temperature before starting it the happier it will be.
The EZ Heat will work better if you plug the holes in the cowling and
throw a blanket over it to hold the heat under the cowling, if you're not
already. If you still want more heat than the oil sump heater is giving
you, we have a cylinder preheat system that is designed to be used with
any oil sump heater like the EZ Heat or our Hotpadd. If you're
interested, see our new web page at www.execpc.com/reiff ("warning" -
the web page is only a week old so still needs some clean up).
..Bob Reiff, RV4 wings almost done.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:ELT palcement |
> If the airplane meets the ground hard enough
> to distroy the ELT, isn't most everything else gonna go too (again yikes)?
Don't forget that your family needs you found, whether you survive or
not. This may sound ghoulish, but it's very important that your ELT
work, even when there are no survivors. For one thing, the insurance
company may require a body. Perhaps more importantly, your loved ones
will want to know what happened, and to know for certain that you're
gone. We all hope for the best outcome, of course, but even in a fatal
crash it's important that the ELT works, especially if you fly over
remote areas.
Tedd McHenry
tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
RV-6 plans, project on hold
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd <tmrv6(at)pop.erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Baffling material |
>Now's a good time to ask all of the flying RVers if they've had any trouble
>with cracking baffles. It would be interesting to know what material the
>baffles were made of and whether home made or from Van's kit. I used Van's
>kit on my RV-6 and after 350 hours have zero cracks.
>
>Bob Skinner RV-6 Bskinner(at)krvn.com
Bob, I made mine from 6061-T6. I got a slight crack on the left side after
75 hours (my fault. My fit around the rocker covers was too tight and
created a oil can effect.) Fixed it and no problems since.
Todd N92TM 100 hours tmrv6(at)erols.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bseckstein(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pressure settings for Rivetting |
I've got an Avery 3x. I have been using about 80psi for 3/32 and 1/8 without
too many problems. Right or wrong, I firmly hold the gun, align the bucking
bar, slide the rivet back and forth through the hole between the set and bar,
focus my attention on the set I'm using, and blast away. Duration being the
only difference between 3/32 and 1/8. I've had to drill out a few rivets,
mostly because I screwed up the shop side, poor bucking bar alignment.
Incidently, a freind who is also building a 6A, lent me his 1 1/4" rubber
guarded flush set that I like a lot more than the smaller one I've got. It
doesn't walk around as much.
Brian Eckstein
6A - waiting for wing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd <tmrv6(at)pop.erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A tip up rear glass |
>On an RV6A tip up canopy rear glass, has anyone used a simple washer
>with a 1/8" hole as a bearing surface for the plexi pop rivets instead
>of the long pieces of .025" as shown in the construction photograph.
>Seems like they'd be lighter and easier.
>--
>Chet Razer
Chet, I made mine in two rivet straps. It doesn't look quite as nice as a
continuous strip, but a whole lot easier to install. I made the straps from
hinge material (anodized).
Todd N92TM 100 hrs tmrv6(at)erols.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Baffling material |
One think you can do is order a RV-6 baffel kit and use it.
That is what I did on my Pitts and it has worked fine.
The price is right. I don't know if 2024t3 is the best but
there are a lot of RV's flying with it.
Herman
> Fellow Listers:
>
> A quick question: I'm about to replace the aluminum baffling in my Citabria
> and was looking in the RV plans to see what material is used. I didn't see
> any specified. My past experience with 2024T-3 is that is a very
> susceptable to cracking when used as a baffle. I previously tried 6061T-6
> with very good results in my 180.
>
> Opinions???
>
> Doug
>
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> = Doug Weiler, pres. MN Wing, Van's AirForce, RV-4 in progress, N722DW
> = 347 Krattley Lane
> = Hudson, WI 54016
> = 715-386-1239
> = email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roy_Vosberg(at)watsonwyatt.com (Roy Vosberg) |
I'm just in the planning stages of my RV6A project. I have the preview plans and
will be ordering the empennage kit soon. I am looking for some help in deciding
on the type of air gun that is best for the type of riveting done. ,
John Hsu RV6A starting
hsubox(at)proaxis.com
______________________________________________________________________
I'm in the same boat. I have opened my checkbook several times to
order an empenage kit, but then decided I should do more
"preparation". One question I have been trying to research is what
options should I order with the kit. Do I need the bottom light on the
rudder??? Does the electric trim option make trimming the aircraft
easier??? Is it something I should have???
I've also enrolled in a basic aircraft sheetmetal course that begins
January 2nd at Minneapolis Technical College. Is this training
overkill for this project?? I actually hope to complete the empenage
kit in the class as it is 4 hours a day, 4 days a week for 10 weeks.
Thanks in advance for the responses and thanks also for the responses
to John's questions above. I'm going to take all the help I can get.
Roy Vosberg
Checkbook burning hole in pocket. (RV6A plans but decided on the RV6)
Roy_Vosberg(at)watsonwyatt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Where do I put the engine oil cooler? |
I think the reason the thermostatic valve does not work as you
would think is as follows. The valve is measuring the temp
as the hot oil EXITS the engine and is about to be filtered and cooled.
After it goes through the cooler, the temp may drop a lot.
The oil temp probe then measures the oil temp after it has been
cooled and about to go back through the engine. Too much cooling
air on the oil cooler will drop the temp too much.
Also, in some cases when it is very cold, even if the valve stays
fully open (not forcing the oil thru the cooler), the oil temp
may never warm up enough due to all the cold air over the engine.
Herman
dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
> >there is a thermostatic valve in the engine which, I understand, should
> >control the oil flow to maintain a minimum operating oil temperature? Does
> >anyone have an answer to this? Also, does anyone know of an RV-6 or 6-A with
> >an 0-360 that has experienced high oil temperatures with the oil cooler
> >installed as above?
> >
> >Les Williams
>
> Les; I thought like you do, that the thermostatic valve would control the
> temp. if it had a cooler in the loop. Studying the oil system layout in the
> overhaul manual, it sure appeared that way. But no soap. All that I can
> think of is that the valve is not that well adjusted or is not sensitive
> enough to do the trick. Therefore, I had to add the ball valve.
> John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
> Stephenville TX
> johnd@our-town.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | csanchez(at)BayNetworks.com (Cheryl Sanchez) |
| Subject: | Re: Pressure settings for Rivetting |
>
>I've got an Avery 3x. I have been using about 80psi for 3/32 and 1/8 without
>too many problems. Right or wrong, I firmly hold the gun, align the bucking
>bar, slide the rivet back and forth through the hole between the set and bar,
>focus my attention on the set I'm using, and blast away. Duration being the
>only difference between 3/32 and 1/8. I've had to drill out a few rivets,
>mostly because I screwed up the shop side, poor bucking bar alignment.
>Incidently, a freind who is also building a 6A, lent me his 1 1/4" rubber
>guarded flush set that I like a lot more than the smaller one I've got. It
>doesn't walk around as much.
>
>Brian Eckstein
>6A - waiting for wing kit
>
Wow! I have a 3x from U.S. Industrial. I run about 25 psi. when doing
number 3 rivets and about 30-35 psi. when doing number four.
Cheryl Sanchez
csanchez(at)world.std.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electronic Ignition |
> Well, my Jeff Rose ElectroAire ignition arrived this week. The wife paid the
> UPS man his $800.00 COD for this little package and figured I must have
> ordered something from the Franklin Mint. First inspection shows a
> decent-enough looking setup but it appears to already have been installed
> somewhere... the base of the unit shows washer and bolt thread indentations.
> I will have to ask Jeff about that. Perhaps he bench-tests each unit on the
> firewall of his own aircraft. This man builds plastic airplanes and
> Kitfoxes, so it might pay to be careful.
>
It could also be that someone installed it and did not like it
and returned it and now it is being passed on to you as a 'new' unit.
Herman
dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Nipon-Dienso Alternators, et. als. |
>Have a small problem with the charging system vans setup. Have
>nipendesco #14184 vans part number.Have vans new wet cell battery
>not the gell cell.Have vans regulator non adjust type,Ace electrical
>#1751. The problem is the amp guage needle moves to + side aprox 3
>amps then moves back to 0 .It does this every second,or less. I am
>getting aprox 14.7 charge voltage. I would think that I would get
>a steady charge of 3 amps or so.
A 3 amp "wiggle" shouldn't be a problem . . . what's the
bus voltage doing while this is going on? Is it jumping
in syncronization with your strobes? How does it
behave when the landing light and nav lights are on? 14.7
volts is a tad high but you can always add water to a wet
cell. Please consider changing over to an RG battery when
the wet feller dies.
>It is normal for the load to vary. This is because the
>regulator is a switch. What you are seeing on your
>guage is the curcit opening and closing.
Depends on what you call "load". If one watches
the output current of their alternator while a
battery charges and various equipment items are turned
on and off, the alternator's output CURRENT will
reflect these changes.
>I have an amp guage that that shows the actual load and
>in cruise flight it will show anywhere from 3 to 15 amps
>draw. It changes every second because strobes are charging
>and discharging, mikes are being keyed, CD's are sliding
>in and out of the player..... there's alot going on every
>second in the electrical system.
>What's more important is that your system is charging your
>battery.
True . . and this condition is insured by bus VOLTAGE
setting. Batteries need 13.8 to 14.8 volts (depending
upon temperature) to acheive full charge.
>I'm using a Ford transister VR. From what my RV-buddies
>tell me, the B&C VR does not have the large swings in output
>because it is linear (it's not being "switched" on and off).
Neither regulator (switching or linear) should show much
"swing" in output with respect to what they were designed
for . . . regulating bus voltage.
>I like the cheep switch.
Actually, most folk are unaware of the fact that a B&C
linear regulator includes crowbar ov protection -and-
low voltage warning. It's really THREE products in one
container. Given time/space saved in installing and
wiring the $200 seems less breathtaking . . .
>Being a former auto mechanic, I know that automobile charging
>systems are supposed to provide between 14 and 15 volts.
>The potential difference is needed to charge the battery.
>I would be happy if I saw the numbers you say.
Agreed
>I also have a wheelchair battery. At what voltage do you have
>your system set to? Mine sems to have trouble cranking my high
>compression I0 360. My buss voltage is now set at 14.2.
If you have a true GEL style battery, it's probably the worst
of all battery technologies for engine cranking. Further, most
cranking problems I've dealt with include grounding problems
as well. The most importand wire in the airplane is a single
piece of #2 (or perhaps #4) from battery minus to crankcase!
Most of the sealed, no-maintenance batteries have matured to
the recombinant gas technology. Batteries from B&C, Concord,
Panasonic, etc will offer this new technology. I run 'em in
my cars!!!!!
> The alt. needle
> appears to be very 'nervous' at times and will vibrate rather rapidly (2-3
> times per sec.) but does not do it all of the time. I can hear a tic in the
> headset when at idle, and the tic seems to be the same pulse as the
> vibration. Volts don't vary.
Voltage regulators are servo systems. They monitor bus voltage and
try to steer alternator field voltage in response to changes in
load, rpm, temperature, and system dynamics (gear motors, strobes,
etc.). The regulator can do a good job only if it can "see" a
true representation of bus voltage. This task can be made more
difficult by too small of wire, ground noise (sometimes call ground
loops), etc. If anyone is experiencing an irritating or otherwise
unacceptable instability or noise, there MAY be a fix. . . .
>My voltage also reads about 14.5-14.9 (however this is an analog gauge,
>so I question the precision of this reading) . . . .
Borrow a digital voltmeter and confirm . . .
>for a while after engine start, then it settles down to about 14.2 -
>Anyone think this is a bit high?
Probably okay unless you spend a lot of time in the air on LONG
flights then I would recommend it drop down to as low as 13.8.
>Concerning alternator problems, I used a rebuilt Ford
>alternater (Large ring gear pulley and large as possible
>alternator pulley) . . . .
Had a number of subscribers ask about larger pulleys to slow down
their alternators. This SHOULD be totally unnecessary. B&C
balances their NEW Nipon-Dienso alternators to values that can
be 1/10th the unbalance values upon receipt. This is less expensive
than cutting new pulleys -AND- it gives you full output from the
alternator at taxi speeds. Reliability of alternators shipped
by B&C has been virtually 100% over the past 6 years.
> . . . .and a Mark Landoll solid state regulator. Knock on wood,
>though I know a couple of people who have had problems, I've had
>no electrical problems at all (Scary Huh?). I suspect it is the
>alternator in most cases that causes the problem.
Actually, the alternator should be the MOST reliable piece of
equipment on the airplane. If belt driven, replace the belt
every annual whether it needs it or not . . . it's not difficult
to get a belt driven alternator that runs virtually trouble free
for the lifetime of the ariplane.
>Make sure alternator wiring is of adequate size and shielded.
There is no form of alternator noise that benefits from shielded
wire. Some switching regulators may be so noisy that shielded
wire on field line is helpful . . . I'd rather use a quieter
regulator . . . the cheapie FORD aftermarket replacements are
generally pretty good. The B-lead from the alternator never needs
shielding.
>I had exactly the same symptoms on my Grumman AA1C. The problem
>magically disappeared when the alternater crumped during a LONG
>cross country and I had to get it replaced. If there's any way
>you can borrow a different alternator and try it, I think
>it would be worth your time.
The new alternator undoubtedly had slightly different
transfer characteristics that allowed a marginal REGULATOR
to function well. It should be possible to "tame" ANY
alternator buy selection of regulator installation technique.
>I have a Pelican alternator, Van's adjustable regulator adjusted
>to 14.1 to charge the RG battery. I've had the same problem.
>I get fluctuating amps similar to yours and my voltage will
>jump between 14.1 to 14.3-14.4.
As voltage fluctuations go, these are pretty small . . . but they
can be observed in some panel lighting. This is why I use active
REGULATOR integrated circuit in my panel dimmers. They filter out
the last vestages of any bus voltage instabilities.
> I put a generic Ford alternator on the plane that I got from Bob Nuckolls
>and the only thing that changes was that the charging voltage went up to
>around 15.2 volts. After a few months, I put the old, adjustable
>regulator back on.
Hmmmm . . . did we talk about this? 15.2 is much too high. You should
have sent it back (everything offered by AeroElectric Connection is
100% satisfaction guaranteed!). I'll fix it, replace it or refund
your money . . . your option. But in any case, I need to get it back and
see what's going on . . . . .
>My first RG battery lasted 1 1/2 years in the plane. I purchased it
>about 6 months before the first flight and never bench charged
>it as is recommended. (Couldn't find the type of charger that
>Concorde recommends, locally and catalog prices seemed very high.)
That shouldn't have been a problem. An RG battery stored at room
temperature should store for over a year. I wonder what they "recommended"
for maintenance during storage. For ANY RG battery in storage, charge
it on ANY charger once every 6 months for one time. This way, even if the
charger isn't a really good one, you can't hurt the battery with one
charge cycle . . Store at room temperature or lower.
>My second RG battery went right into the airplane and flew so I
>hope I have better life.
The two cars I drive and one airplane I know of are in the last months
of three years service on their RG batteries . . . Still cranking
great.
>I'm not sure that that running the Ford alternator for several months
>was good for the battery life, either.
Not at 15.2 volts . . . . the voltage setting has more to do with
battery life than the brand of alternator.
>Since I had on two regulators, my guess that there is something about
>the alternator that is causing this.
Let's figure it out . . . .
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========oOOo=(_)=oOOo==========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
> For people like me. these tools come with NO INSTRUCTIONS!!!!
> Find somebody who can help you get started, preferably BEFORE you
> buy tools.
Heh, sometimes even instructions won't help you all that much. For example,
the Cambell-Hausefield spray gun I bought had lots of warnings, and the
obligatory section on moving the gun parallel to the surface for even paint
coating (Instructions you can even find on a cheap can of Krylon) but there
was nothing on it explaining how to convert it to the various features it
listed (Internal or external mix, bleed or non-bleed, pressure feed or siphon)
although the parts list helped me figure it out a little, and there wasn't
anything to explain the adjustment screw either. There were lots of warnings
though. 10 pages in three languages. The instructions just didn't tell me
much on how to actually USE the thing.
(And annoyingly, the little set screw you remove from the part you screw the
jar onto to make it siphon instead of pressure feed was corroded into place
(steel screw in an aluminum casting) and the allen head stripped. Foo.)
Still, it'll do yeoman service painting the house. :-)
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Caldwell <RLCaldwell(at)chq.byu.edu> |
| Subject: | Leak Testing Fuel Tanks |
I've completed both of my fuel tanks and now would like to ensure there
are no leaks. I realize that very little air pressure (1-2 lbs) should be
used and one good method is using a balloon connected to the air vent
fitting. What fittings, hoses, gauges, air pumps are best for getting the
air into the tank? I assume after applying air pressure that a soap test is
a good idea or should I wait to see if the balloon deflates? Would
appreciate any suggestions. Thanks in advance.
Ron Caldwell
RLCaldwell(at)chq.byu.edu
Finished ProSealing
RV6A - N655RV Reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | R-602 mis-drilled by Vans |
Hi guys,
Just to spread a little information:
I started working on my rudder recently, and found that the top hole on one
side of the R-602 spar had been pre-drilled about 1/8" too low.
I queried the effect of this on to Vans, and here's their reply:
>Yes, that is an error, just drill through the hole in the skin and put a rivet
>in. The engineers tell me this is a "jitter" in the punch machine and will not
>affect the rudder strength at all to have one marginal rivet... om
I'm building an RV-6, predrilled empennage, kit #24692, bought April 96.
Frank.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Pressure settings for Rivetting |
>I've got an Avery 3x. I have been using about 80psi for 3/32 and 1/8 without
>too many problems.
80psi on 3/32" rivets??? I have an Avery 3X too, and find that working down
round 30-45 psi is much easier. High pressure makes it very easy to
overdrive the little rivets.
Incidentally, I have a full-swivel regulator at the gun -- this is *well*
worth the extra cost, since it's much easier to align the gun without the
air hose pulling/pushing sideways on it.
Frank.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
>If you are building an RV, your name address and phone is on Van's list.
>You can request a list from him by zip code.
For those not in the Yoowess, however, Van's can't give a list by country
though.
Frank.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack & Diane Mahler & Joy <jax(at)brett.reno.nv.us> |
Roy Vosberg wrote:
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> I'm in the same boat. I have opened my checkbook several times to
> order an empenage kit, but then decided I should do more
> "preparation". One question I have been trying to research is what
> options should I order with the kit. Do I need the bottom light on the
> rudder??? Does the electric trim option make trimming the aircraft
> easier??? Is it something I should have???
>
> I've also enrolled in a basic aircraft sheetmetal course that begins
> January 2nd at Minneapolis Technical College. Is this training
> overkill for this project?? I actually hope to complete the empenage
> kit in the class as it is 4 hours a day, 4 days a week for 10 weeks.
>
> Thanks in advance for the responses and thanks also for the responses
> to John's questions above. I'm going to take all the help I can get.
>
> Roy Vosberg
> Checkbook burning hole in pocket. (RV6A plans but decided on the RV6)
> Roy_Vosberg(at)watsonwyatt.comRoy, any education is a benifit. My only question:
are they going to
let you build and maintain the Jig necessary for the construction.
Also, when the class is over, you will have to transfer the jig to where
you plan on building the wings. The up side will be knowledge of the
tools you will want at home. I think most just dove in and learned as
they went. The instructions are detailed and sufficient for the project
without outside education, but as I said any education is a benifit.
Jax, on my wings.
jax(at)brett.reno.nv.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pressure settings for Rivetting |
The 3X gun pressure settings I use are 35-40 lbs. for a 3/32 rivet and 70-80
lbs for an 1/8 in rivet. The range in pressure settings depends on the
size(weight) of the bucking bar I am using at the time.
Hope this helps....
Fran Malczynski
Wings arrive tomorrow.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pressure settings for Rivetting |
Cheryl Sanchez wrote:
>
> >
> >I've got an Avery 3x. I have been using about 80psi for 3/32 and 1/8 without
> >too many problems. Right or wrong, I firmly hold the gun, align the bucking
> >bar, slide the rivet back and forth through the hole between the set and bar,
> >focus my attention on the set I'm using, and blast away. Duration being the
> >only difference between 3/32 and 1/8. I've had to drill out a few rivets,
> >mostly because I screwed up the shop side, poor bucking bar alignment.
> >Incidently, a freind who is also building a 6A, lent me his 1 1/4" rubber
> >guarded flush set that I like a lot more than the smaller one I've got. It
> >doesn't walk around as much.
> >
> >Brian Eckstein
> >6A - waiting for wing kit
> >
>
> Wow! I have a 3x from U.S. Industrial. I run about 25 psi. when doing
> number 3 rivets and about 30-35 psi. when doing number four.
>
> Cheryl Sanchez
> csanchez(at)world.std.com
I have a 2x from Cleveland Aircraft Tools. 50 psi for #3's and 90 psi
for #4's
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bseckstein(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pressure settings for Rivetting |
Thanks for the info. I use a regulator at the tank and nothing at the gun.
I'll try the lower pressure and see if I like it. Currently for 3/32's, the
trigger is pressed for about as little time as one can physically accomplish.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lsmith(at)coastalnet.com (Louis E. Smith Jr.) |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injection/CS Props |
>Does anyone have any advice, experience etc. with Airflow Fuel Injection
>systems when fitted to Lyc. O360A1A engines in an RV6
>
>Can someone let me have the regular telephone number for Warner Props and
>EMI Tulsa as 800 numbers don't work ouside US.
>
>Many thanks
>
>Barry Ward
>
>
Barry,
Try EMI at 918-234-7300 or fax at 918-234-6369
Louis Smith
lsmith(at)coastalnet.com
RV-8 #80126>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Tools - does anyone ever sell their tools? |
Hi,
I never see an ad selling tools - is there a taboo or does everyone just keep
them?
Maybe if you have some for sale you should tell me.
Hal Kempthorne
Debonair N6134V
halk(at)sybase.com
Santa Clara, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Nipendeso Alt. charge problems |
>John, I also have a wheelchair battery. At what voltage do you have
>your system set to?
>Mine sems to have trouble cranking my high compression I0 360. My buss
>voltage is now set at 14.2.
>Ken; I have it set between 14.5 and 15 volts. I think it is what Bob
Nuckolls or someone had in an article for gel cells.
When I purchased my batt., they had two sizes. I got the larger of the two,
just a little smaller than the battery box. I'm cranking a 320 and it has
always turned it over sharply. I am using the light wt starter from Landoll.
It did peter out on me initially when I was first trying to start the engine
after initial installation. But it was my dumbness that did that. It would
run for about 1-1 1/2 minutes and die. After about 8-10 starts of pretty
long cranking, the batt. told me it had had enough. I was using a temp.
fuel line of surgical tubing and it would be sucked flat by the suction of
the pump!!! Dumb me.
I charged the batt. with my car charger and it has been fine since.
NOTE: Bob Nuckolls won't like this. My spell corrector keeps giving me a
suggestion for the spelling for his last name---numskulls!! Sorry bout that
Bob.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
Okay folks, I've gotten some ideas from other listers that I've incorporated
into the form. A few people have mentioned putting this list on the web, but
I don't know how to do that and I don't know if people want their phone #'s
on the web. I sure don't. If someone wants to put it on the web that's
okay, but I'll strip phone #'s and mail addresses out first. If you've
already replied, you can reply again with any of the additional info and I'll
include it. There are about 30 responses so far, and I may or may not update
this at a later date depending on whether I feel like it. I'll start
compiling the list at the end of November, so if you want in - reply by then.
I won't post this to the list again or else Matt might yell at me... :)
Here is a sample form (send info to ME and NOT to the list)
please use this format *without* using the fields. (so I don't have to strip
them out)
Name:
City/State:
Phone #:
Email addr:
Do you have overnight accommadations available?
Hangar / Tie-down available, airport name:
RV project type / Status:
IMPORTANT - IMPORTANT - IMPORTANT!
IF YOU WISH TO PARTICIPATE PLEASE SEND THIS INFO TO: ebundy2620(at)aol.com AND
NOT TO THE RV LIST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net (Chris Brooks) |
| Subject: | Re: Leak Testing Fuel Tanks |
Ron,
I cut about 3" of the 1/4" alum. tubing, flaired it, and attached it to
the vent bulkhead fitting with the AN-819-4D sleeve and AN818-4D nut
that are supplied with the kit for the pitot tube.
I then took a valve stem (tubeless type) and sanded the bulb smooth on
my belt sander and ran a 1/4" drill bit into it.
Then I coated the end of the tube with gasket sealer,slid the end of the
valve stem over it, and secured it with a hose clamp(you'll have to bend
the tube a little to get an air chuck on the stem).
Since I used a flop tube I used the supplied fittings for the pick-up
tube to secure another 3" piece of 3/8" alum. tubing to the fuel pick-up
bulkhead fitting.This is where you could attach your balloon with a
rubber band. I didn't use a balloon,I used a piece of clear vynyl tubing
with a loop in it filled with water.I turned the regulator all the way
down on my compressor and slowly opened it to inflate the fuel tank
enough to displace the water in the tubing.Check the barametric pressure
when you test over-night, an increase in pressure will look like a leak.
Chris Brooks RV-6 BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bseckstein(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pressure settings for Rivetting |
This is great! I'll bet there are as many ways to set a rivet as there are
people riveting. I would like to add a comment. I have found (through
experience) that I would rather have a pop rivet than a damaged skin! I'm
not going to try to be so heroic in my efforts to eliminate pop rivets. They
are easy to 'eliminate' with micro-baloons and resin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chinkley(at)ix.netcom.com (Curtis R. Hinkley) |
| Subject: | Fiberglass/Retractable Gear |
Does anyone know what type of resin our RV fiberglass parts are made
with, polyester ? epoxy? Polyvinyl? I need to order the fiberglass
cloth and resin to finish the empennage.
Just finished reviewing the January 97 issue of Kitplanes. On page 10
is a nice picture of a white and red RETRACTABLE GEAR RV-4 from the
Arlington fly-in. Does anyone know who built this RV-4, tail number
looks like C-EGRC.
Has anyone given any though to a retractable RV, if so what did you
think the best donor airplane would be.
Curtis Hinkley
chinkley(at)ix.netcom.com
hinkleyc(at)fca.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Leak Testing Fuel Tanks |
>I've completed both of my fuel tanks and now would like to ensure there
>are no leaks. I realize that very little air pressure (1-2 lbs) should be
>used and one good method is using a balloon connected to the air vent
>fitting. What fittings, hoses, gauges, air pumps are best for getting the
>air into the tank? I assume after applying air pressure that a soap test is
>a good idea or should I wait to see if the balloon deflates? Would
>appreciate any suggestions. Thanks in advance.
>
>Ron Caldwell RLCaldwell(at)chq.byu.edu Finished ProSealing RV6A - N655RV Reserved
Ron,
I got a piece of 1/4" tube, put the fittings on and attached it to the
fuel tank vent. I taped kitchen wrap over the fuel cap and then went over
this with several layers of duct tape and installed the access plate &
gasket & all screws with fuel lube. I then blew up a balloon, by mouth, and
then slid the end over the 1/4" tubing and wrapped the ballon with black
electrical tape. I just waited to see if the balloon deflated. I figured
if it did, then I would get the saop out. If the balloon stayed up, no need
to get the soap out. I think it is a risky practice to try to introduce any
amount of air directly into the fuel tank. Stuff happens, you know?
Bob Skinner RV-6 350 hrs. BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Is a Guage really a GAUGE? |
<< What you are seeing on your guage (sic) is the curcit (sic) opening and
closing. I have a (sic) amp guage (sic) that that (sic) shows... >> that
Johnny can't spell or type.
This speaks volumes about the U.S. school system, I think.
Please, please learn how to spell, people. An archive search engine can only
find what we can correctly spell. Apparently this is a common cognitive
defect, as I see gauge (or is variant, gage) mispelled every week. I hope
you folks are more careful in your building than you are in your typing.
For the final time, listen up. It is G A U G E and C I R C U I T. Get it,
got it, good.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Leak Testing Fuel Tanks |
| From: | Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)kewlaid.highfiber.com> |
Previously written:
>I've completed both of my fuel tanks and now would like to ensure there
>are no leaks.
I closed up my tanks with the exception of the fuel outlet fitting and
the vent fitting. Put a balloon over one fitting and used an air hose at
LOW pressure to put air into the tank. The balloon is used to ensure the
pressure in the tank is low, thus avoiding the tank "puffing" out. Once
the balloon was 5-6 inches in diameter; I stopped putting in air and
sealed that fitting with tape. Then used ordinary dishwater soap and
water solution over the entire tank and checked for bubbles. Ony leaks in
the tank will make big bubbles in the soap solution. This worked very
well for me. In a few minths when Iput fuel in for the first time I will
verify the absolute effectiveness of this technique.
Mike Kukulski
RV-4 N96MK
kukulski(at)highfiber.com
Albuquerque, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Baffling material |
Bob;
I used what ever came from Vans in the baffle kit. About 160 hours and no
cracks etc.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Leak Testing Fuel Tanks |
Ron; I can tell you of a very cheap and Rube Goldberg method. Cut and
flare a short 4-5 inch tube and fit to the bulkhead fitting outside of the
tank on the fuel or vent line. Wrap enough masking tape tightly around the
end of it (make it large enough so that a toy balloon will fit tightly over
it). Do the same for the other fitting, but get a discarded tire valve stem
and tape it over the other outlet. Put the balloon on, fill the tank with
air until the balloon expands (the tank will make pop, crackle and snap
noises, but the balloon popped before the tank did). You might want to
inflate the balloon off the rig a few days before this test, to see if it
has a leak in it(two of mine did-cheap stuff). If gross leaks, you can hear
and or feel them, after you get those then from this point on, do it like a
tire or intertube---a water trough. I used my cattle waterer (my wife
refused to let me bring the tank in the house to put in the tub--she saw
what the proseal had done to me). The cows were very interested, but no help.
Hardest to get a seal--the inner rib access plate screws and the hole
through the filler cap that goes from the flip ears to the inner plate.
You are right-- I don't weigh enough to hold the entire tank under at once,
but I can't do a tube that way either.
Sorry, for the technically inclined, I don't know what type rubber the toy
balloons were made of, they cost 3 for 25 cents (US). And I didn't take a
reading as to what air pressure was required etc etc etc. I just did it and
it worked. I guess if you got balloons that were too tough, they may not
bust before the tank does. I lucked out.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
>Wayne Clinton, Clinton Aircraft Tool & Supply. (404) 766-3222, Fax
>(404)
>>766-3809.
>>
>>John Top
>>Phone: (619) 549-3556
>
>I'd be very careful in buying tools from this source if I were you.
>Maybe I was the exception, but I got some real junk from this guy.
>I got the impression that there was a father and son and that the
>son was more interested in making money than anything else.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Bill Costello
Thanks Bill. There are several other sources. Sounds like your experience
was not as good as mine. That is the value of forums like this one.
I haven't had all that much experience with Clinton and won't try to defend
them, but I personally have had good service. He sells surplus and the the
tools he carrys are obviously well used, knicked up and look pretty rough
but the ones that I have have functioned well.
I bought the rivet gun and a hand full of 1/4 x 28 stubby drill bits,
countersinks and rivet sets from him at a fly-in so l was able to pick
throught the lot and they have been great.
I did buy a CP pneumatic squeezer from him mail order and it looked pretty
rough, dinged up and painted red but it had a brand new 3" yoke and works
great. I bought a longeron yoke and quick change pins from Bob Avery and
they fit well.
I have had the occassion to disassemble the squeezer body to repack it with
grease (I did not kinow that they are packed with lithium grease so you
are not suppossed to oil them before each use like other air tools because
you will wash the grease out). I found the working parts were all in great
shape and that it was packed with obviously new grease. It was apparent
that it had at least been disassembled, cleaned, inspected and repacked
before it was sold.
I am a pretty fussy guy about tools and have had the good fortune of
working for a month with 15 other guys (and gals) so I had the opportunity
to try out lots of different tools and I like my rivet gun a lot better
than any of the others that I tried. I discovered first hand the
superiority of the 1/4" Sioux drill as did everybody else in the workshop
because they all borrowed it every chance they got. I got to experience the
difference between genuine Clecos and several copies and between a genuine
"Vixen" brand file and the imported copies. I got to compare Bob Avery's
hand squeezer with several others (there is no comparison) and try out both
Avery's and Cleaveland' riveting frames (both excellant but slightly
different), and both companies dimple dies and squeezer set.
No one else had a pneumatic squeezer, but I did get to try one of
Cleaveland's at the RV fly-in in Boone,Ia. last summer (They let GlaStar
pukes attend). The only difference that I could discern between the CP and
Buz's copy was the $100 or so difference in price.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 slide canopy |
I am about to trim the skin over bulkhead 606 for a slide canopy and
would like some input on how others have done it and what kind of
clearnace to the canopy frame is needed. In particular:
1. How much skin did you leave hanging past the edge of of the flange
on bulkhead 606 at the center?
2. How much skin did you leave above the longeron before you started
cutting it back in the big sweeping curve?
3. Did you leave a particular amount of clearance to the canopy frame?
4. How did you layout the curve around the top?
Any helpful information about this particular process would be
appreciated.
Frank Smidler, RV-6
smidler(at)dcwi.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg) |
| Subject: | Re: Is a Guage really a GAUGE? |
At 10:18 PM 11/25/96, aol.com!Vanremog(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
><< What you are seeing on your guage (sic) is the curcit (sic) opening and
>closing. I have a (sic) amp guage (sic) that that (sic) shows... >> that
>Johnny can't spell or type.
>
>This speaks volumes about the U.S. school system, I think.
>
>Please, please learn how to spell, people. An archive search engine can only
>find what we can correctly spell. Apparently this is a common cognitive
>defect, as I see gauge (or is variant, gage) mispelled every week. I hope
>you folks are more careful in your building than you are in your typing.
>
>For the final time, listen up. It is G A U G E and C I R C U I T. Get it,
>got it, good.
>
>-GV
Ewe air two pickie. Engrish littletree grops ned folkks lik yo. Wee be
plain builters, sew liten uph. Wit th vollum uf male thes grop cees wee
bee luccy
two gett th greet spellers wee havv. eyed ruther teh infermation bee precented
then hav a skool marm wartch ovr r shuddlers.
Liten Upp!
Tanks,
Dug Blumbrg
Denva Colarado
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger Embree <rae1(at)planeteer.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Leak Testing Fuel Tanks |
Ron;
Many years ago I helped my father build a BD-4. After completing the wings we used
the jig to help a friend build his wings. The fiberglass panels were very porous
and
irregular and there was a lot of concern as to whether or not they would leak.
Out came the air hose and the compressor was started. The elders thought they
would
be very carefull and limit the pressure to about 5 psi. I was just a young
engineering student at the time and my quiet warning went unheard.
When the dust from the exploding fiberglass settled there were only jagged fingers
left where the gas tanks once were. Fortunately pictures were taken of the
poorly manufactured panels before the leak test and Bede supplied new ones.
Pressure testing your tanks to even 1 psi will subject them to two orders of
magnitude greater than their operating pressure (psf). I would advise looking for
an
alternate method.
Roger Embree RV6A empennage
rae1(at)planeteer.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
aol.com!EBundy2620(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> I have an idea. (Ow!) Would there be any interest in a hardcopy list
of all
> of the "listers"? For example, there are times when someone posts a
message
> saying "I'll be in (your city here) for a couple of days, and I'd
like to get
> together with RV builders in the area...".
>
> What if everyone put their name, city, phone #, and whether they can
offer a
> room, hangar space, etc for an RV'er passing through; in a list?
Ed:
You should check out Sid & Mari LLoyd's GlaStar home page
http://www.insync.net/~sidl/glastar.html. They maintain an alphabetical
list and a geographical list of builders who wish to be
listed in addition to maintaining our GlaStarNet listing
similar to the rv-list and a compendium of builders tips which have
been submitted.
A recent addition has been the "StarClub" which is a listing of
builders and other enthusiasts who are willing to provide lodging,
hanger space, transportation or just conversation to other traveling
builders/flyers/enthusiasts. Again strictly voluntary and self
inflicted.
All of these listings are growing every day and there are only a
handful of GSers out there compared to RVers. I would think that you
would get a pretty good response if you were serious about doing it.
Sid and Mari are doing a terrific job and are providing a real service
to the GS community, but it has got to be lot of work.
Also, I would think Van could provide a listing to you in any form you
wanted. I know that a friend in Carlsbad wanted to contact all the
builders in our corner of SoCal and Stoddard Hamilton provided him with
a list.
Good luck.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Leak Testing Fuel Tanks |
>>I've completed both of my fuel tanks and now would like to ensure there
>>are no leaks. I realize that very little air pressure (1-2 lbs) should be
>>used and one good method is using a balloon connected to the air vent
>>fitting. What fittings, hoses, gauges, air pumps are best for getting the
>>air into the tank? I assume after applying air pressure that a soap test is
>>a good idea or should I wait to see if the balloon deflates? Would
>>appreciate any suggestions. Thanks in advance.
>>
>>Ron Caldwell RLCaldwell(at)chq.byu.edu Finished ProSealing RV6A - N655RV Reserved
>
>Ron,
> I got a piece of 1/4" tube, put the fittings on and attached it to the
>fuel tank vent. I taped kitchen wrap over the fuel cap and then went over
>this with several layers of duct tape and installed the access plate &
>gasket & all screws with fuel lube. I then blew up a balloon, by mouth, and
>then slid the end over the 1/4" tubing and wrapped the ballon with black
>electrical tape. I just waited to see if the balloon deflated. I figured
>if it did, then I would get the saop out. If the balloon stayed up, no need
>to get the soap out. I think it is a risky practice to try to introduce any
>amount of air directly into the fuel tank. Stuff happens, you know?
>
>Bob Skinner RV-6 350 hrs. BSkinner(at)krvn.com
Ron, One thing I forgot to mention. You will have to "pre-pressurize" the
fuel tank by blowing into the 1/4" tube (by mouth). Then cap it off with
your finger, blow up the balloon and place it over the 1/4" tube. If not
pre-pressurized, the tank would take all the air in the balloon.
Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin lane <kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is a Guage really a GAUGE? |
> For the final time, listen up. It is G A U G E and C I R C U I T. and E M P
E N N A G E (as in tail)
and B R A K E S (as in parking)
and B R E A K S (as in broken)
and F U S E L A G E .......
and .....oh, forget it,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillAkin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pressure settings for Rivetting |
I thought filling blind rivets was a good idea too, but in a relatively short
period of flying, the filler {micro baloons} began to crack and looks like
hell. I also have blind rivets holding the wing tips on that I didn't fill
and they look great. Lesson learned: Don't fill those pop rivets. They grow
on you this way. Hey John! What's a spell chekir?
Bill Akin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillAkin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass/Retractable Gear |
Polyester!! Just smell it!!! By the way, sand gel coat (white stuff) away
for good adhesion
Bill Akin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Malone <scottm(at)pta6000.pld.com> |
| Subject: | Stop in we will pick your brain |
We are building a RV-6A here at Ulysses Aero Center and need all the
help and advice we can get. We'd love for any Rv'rs to stop in and
chat. Located in the heart of America (SW Kansas), Ulysses (ULS) is easy
to find.
The best part is we will top your RV off at only $1.50 per gallon.
Looking forward to seeing you!
Scott Malone
scottm(at)pld.com
Building canopy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | alex.peterson(at)deltec.com |
>Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 8:24:23 CST-6
| Subject: | Pressure Testing Tanks |
From:
Alex Peterson
alex.peterson(at)deltec.com
Maple Grove, MN RV6A fuse skin.
612-628-7201
At 6 G's in coordinated flight, with full tanks, the pressure in the =20
lower inboard region of the tank is approximately 2psi. Assuming the =20
vertical distance (in coordinated flight) from the lower inboard to upper =20=
=20
outboard is about 12in (dihedral), one way to calculate this pressure is =20
as follows: 6lbf/gal/G x 8gal/ft3 x 1ft2/144in2 x 6G =3D 2 lbf/in2 (psi).=20=
=20
Some relief in this pressure on the lower surface is due to air pressure =20=
=20
under the wing at 6G's. However, this does not help the aft seals of the =20=
=20
tank.
One safe way to achieve pressure during testing is to rig up a relief =20
tube (no, not that kind) consisting of a vertical column of water about =20
2-4ft high. I rigged this up as follows: 1) fill a jar about half full =20
of water, 2) fashion a sealable lid for the jar with two holes for tubes, =20=
=20
3) connect the tank vent or other tank port to a tube which leads to the =20
air space above the water in the jar, 4) orient another tube in the other =20=
=20
jar lid hole from the bottom of the jar vertically about 36-48 inches. =20
Be sure to leave the upper end of this tube open, and use the minimum =20
amount of water necessary in the jar. The larger the ID of these tubes, =20
the better. Connect a low pressure regulator to another tank port, and =20
SLOWLY increase the pressure. Water should immediately begin to rise in =20
the column, and if not, something is not correct. When the column is 24 =20
inches high, the tank pressure is 1psi. I tested mine at 36 inches, or =20
1.5psi (about 4.5G's). Soap and water can then be used to look for =20
leaks. The skins will noticably bulge, by the way. Accidental =20
overpressures will blow the water out the top of the tube, and once the =20
water is out, the air will rapidly rush out. This will not protect =20
against a very rapid pressure increase. It is probably prudent to wait =20
several weeks after pro-seal before testing tanks. =20
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillAkin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Is a Guage really a GAUGE? |
Good grief GV! Lighten up. We can't all be perfect.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tools - does anyone ever sell their tools? |
>Hi,
>
>I never see an ad selling tools - is there a taboo or does everyone just keep
>them?
>
>Maybe if you have some for sale you should tell me.
>
>Hal Kempthorne
>Debonair N6134V
>halk(at)sybase.com
>Santa Clara, CA
>
>
Sell my tools? You've got to be kidding. I plan on being buried with them.
BTW, what primer should I use to prevent them from rusting :)))
On a more serious note, tools from uncompleted projects are occasionally up
for sale. The builders who I've talked to who are flying wouldn't sell
their tools for a number of reasons. First, they are needed for maintenance
and repairs. Second, many people plan on building a second and third plane.
Lastly, they come in handy around the house. I've riveted, dimpled &
countersunk my fair share of non-aviation related items.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Why Johnny can't spell or type! |
<< << What you are seeing on your guage (sic) is the curcit (sic) opening and
closing. I have a (sic) amp guage (sic) that that (sic) shows... >> that
Johnny can't spell or type.
This speaks volumes about the U.S. school system, I think.
Please, please learn how to spell, people. An archive search engine can
only
find what we can correctly spell. Apparently this is a common cognitive
defect, as I see gauge (or is variant, gage) mispelled every week. I hope
you folks are more careful in your building than you are in your typing.
For the final time, listen up. It is G A U G E and C I R C U I T. Get it,
got it, good.
-GV >>
Up yours you pompous asshole. Just who do you think you are VanMoron? What
gives you the right to insult me and the other fine people that contribute to
this forum.
Ive built my RV and therefore do not need to participate in this list. I
participate in this list to help out others; not to be graded by anal
jerk-offs such as yourself. I try to squeeze my RV-list time in while Im at
work, so excuse me if I dont bother to spell check. If my contributions to
this list have become meaningless, please let me know as I will gladly
unsubscribe.
Im a very busy man who volunteers much of my time away dispite having two
small children and a two hour commute to and from work. As far as my
education is concerned, I hold a BS in Aeronautics and Management. Never did
take that 3 credit give away...typing.
Go ponder your flap linkage while I fly my RV you Nazi.
I apologize to everybody on the list for this reply, especially in light of
our new zero chatter rule but I strongly feel that this list is about RV's,
not spelling or profiling.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BDStobbe <70743.2727(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Another method for monitoring a very low pressure on the fuel tanks for leak
checking is to hook up a water level to one of the fittings and a hose to the
other. With your filler cap opening sealed off (and this is the hardest thing
to do since the caps do not seal very well), blow into the hose using lung power
and *inflate* the tank until the water rises about 12 inches in your water level
which I believe is roughly equal to .5 psi. Now you can seal the hose by
crimping it, mark the water level with a marker, and wait with baited breath to
see if the water level drops.
Just remember that the pressure in the tank will vary with temperature when you
select the area in which to perform the test.
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6 N508RV reserved
little or no recent progress :>(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillAkin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Leak Testing Fuel Tanks |
Stop up the fitting an filler holes, fill them with fuel, set 'em out in the
sun, and rotate once in a while. Normal operating pressures will build from
the sun's heat and any leaks will show up. At the same time you can position
( dihedral , incedence etc.) your tanks on a flat table and calibrate your
fuel guage senders. Close as you can get to simulating actual conditions.
Another reason for not painting prior to test flying the airplane. Don't use
sloshing compound.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
I understand the relationship between Va and "full and abrubt control
movement", but I was wondering if that applies to the ailerons as well as the
elevator.
For example, is there any reason why you can't do a full aileron deflection
roll at say 160? It doesn't seem to me that the ailerons put anywhere NEAR
the load on the airframe that full elevator control does, but I'm not an
engineer either.
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bseckstein(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Leak Testing Fuel Tanks |
I'm just about to start the wings. Can I ask how many people have found
leaks after doing a careful job of prosealing? This sounds like a more
common problem than I first thought. Also, does anyone know the effects of
auto fuel on proseal? Is there an alternative to proseal that is more
adaptable?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Pruitt <mprv4(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Why Johnny can't spell or type! |
Gary,
You couldn't have said it better, this guy is a asshole!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A. Reichert" <reichera(at)clark.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Is a Guage really a GAUGE? |
GV,
Is this what you consider a contribution to this list? Better think
again. I got the idea of the comment, regardless of how the spelling
fell. I don't always do very well on my spelling, either.
- Alan
On Mon, 25 Nov 1996 aol.com!Vanremog(at)matronics.com wrote:
[...a flame about spelling...]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Enough About Spelling! [Please Read] |
People... This guage/gauge this has gotten way out of hand! Please remember,
there are now *over* 600 people on this List who are near saturation with the
30 - 40 actual RV *related* messages that come across. Everytime there is
a ridiculous thread on the List like this, I end up with tons of mail from
people complaining about the signal to noise ratio has taken yet another nose
dive, yada yada yada... Remember, this is a list about *RVs, aircraft
construction and flying*. Keep your posts *short* and *RELATIVE*. Don't
forget the 600 people all over the world will have to read and delete your
message and it's not fair to waste their time with flames and drivel.
Consider your self spanked. No need to respond.
Matt Dralle
RV-List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Is a Guage really a GAUGE? |
> << What you are seeing on your guage (sic) is the curcit (sic) opening and
> closing. I have a (sic) amp guage (sic) that that (sic) shows... >>
that
> Johnny can't spell or type.
>
> This speaks volumes about the U.S. school system, I think.
>
> Please, please learn how to spell, people. I hope
> you folks are more careful in your building than you are in your typing.
>
> For the final time, listen up. It is G A U G E and C I R C U I T. Get
it,
Come on Gary, lighten up. Let's not turn this forum into
rec.aviation.homebuilt.
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tools - does anyone ever sell their tools? |
> I never see an ad selling tools - is there a taboo or does everyone just
keep
> them?
I don't think there is a taboo, but for what they cost, you take a pretty big
hit if you sell them. So unless you have no use for them anymore it's
usually better to keep them.
Along these lines, I have the construction videos for Wing, Fueselage, Finsh,
& Systems that I don't need anymore. $100.
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is a Guage really a GAUGE (chatter) |
>
>This speaks volumes about the U.S. school system, I think.
>
Wow. First there were the whiners complaining about too many messages
"unrelated" to RV's (i.e. first flight congrats, flying humor, etc.). Then
finding these same whiners continually posting the types of messages they
were complaining about.
And now an unwarranted attack on an individual that may have a spelling
problem (big deal), and also on an entire nation's educational system.
The list is beginning to resemble rec.aviation.homebuilt. Shame.
Rob Acker / RV-6Q / N164RA / Southern California
E-mail: r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com
RV-6Q Project: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Fritz <75303.1623(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Is there some reason for missing the point made in the original letter? The
point was not to berate or denigrate anyone; it was simply that if we want to
access this wealth of information we're creating, we have to have some degree of
accuracy.
Scenario: You remember someone putting a note in the list having to do with
installing the air springs on the tilt-up canopy. In this note they had a
really great approach to the problem of distortion and if you could just find
it, your problem would be solved. So you look up "canopy" and find
zilch...seems it was spelled "canapy" so you're screwed.
As to the suggestion that the original requester "lighten up", I would suggest
that referring to the author as a "Nazi" and "anal retentive" is a bit over the
top.
Now could we please drop this subject? It is obviously a hot button for some of
us and, in spite of the good intentions of the suggestion, it clearly won't make
any difference to some, is unnecessary for others, and mistakes are going to
creep in no matter how hard we try.
Bob F. (building the workshop)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
WARNING: THIS iS A NON-SPELL CHECKED REPLY. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK!
<< For example, is there any reason why you can't do a full aileron
deflection
roll at say 160? It doesn't seem to me that the ailerons put anywhere NEAR
the load on the airframe that full elevator control does, but I'm not an
engineer either. >>
Ed,
I typically start my aileron rolls from 140 to 180 mph. The faster you go,
the faster the aircraft goes around. Van (or Ken) had several very good
articles about doing aerobatics in our RV's this year. The trick is to pitch
the aircraft up about 20 degrees (which will scrub off speed), neutralise or
unload the stick and feed-in full aileron. DO NOT PUSH OR PULL on the stick
while going around. It is a good practice to do your first rolls at a slow
speed. This way if you split-S out of the roll you will not over stress the
airframe (you will over-stress yourself however).
Here is the best advice of all. Get instruction from somebody who knows how
do aerobatics in an RV. They are very different from most acro aircraft in
that they build-up speed VERY fast. Too many times people have told me that
they know how to do this or that manuver and I have to take the aircraft from
them to save our skin.
Rolling is what RV's do best (IMHO). Learn to do them correctly so you don't
become afraid to do them.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bseckstein(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tools - does anyone ever sell their tools? |
On a related note, I bought a couple hundred used clecoes and OSH this year
in the fly market. They cost .20 each. While they do work, many have some
problems (proseal stuck to them, weak springs...). I don't use them unless
I'm out of the ones I purchased new. I plan to use them on the gas tanks.
They have some value for that reason, but I won't buy any more used.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | Rigid Fuel Lines |
I have a length of rigid tubing connecting a firewall bulkhead fitting
and the gascolator. There is another connecting the Fuel Servo and the
flowmeter.
Each end of these fuel lines are connected to parts that don't move
relative to each other. That is the intent, the structure is quite
stiff but vibration may be a factor.
The lines are made from the soft tubing provided in the kits. I plan
to firesleeve them.
Does anyone have any comments on using rigid lines ahead of the
firewall?
David Fried
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
P.S. About the exchange between GV and Gary Corde... sheesh! :(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BDStobbe <70743.2727(at)CompuServe.COM> |
You wrote:
<>
Wait a minute, isn't that a typing error right there to the left of the word
variant. Yes it is - I believe the correct word to use there is *its*.
I guess none of us is above making a mistake!
Sorry, I couldn't resist my .02 worth...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Listers:
For those interested in alternative powerplants, I had a chance to sample
the OMABP Chevy Vortec V6 powered RV-6 yesterday.
I met four of the members involved in the project, all very knowledgeable
about what they were doing or trying to do, and willing to share it.
Hospitable and a great bunch.
The installation is very clean, and except for a generally unnoticable
addition to the bottom of the cowl and a neat 3-blade Warp Drive prop,
looking like any other RV-6A.
Bill Phillips took me through the flight paces (thanks for a very memorable
flight ). I did not take notes but pertinent flight data I recall is as
follows:
Flight conditions: Approximately 480 lbs. of flab on board and 140 lbs. of
fuel, OAT 55 degrees F.
ROC: 1100-1300 fpm at 3000' msl, 100 mph IAS.
Cruise: 160 mph IAS at 6000' msl (176'ish TAS), 3200 RPM and 19" (!!!!) M.P.
VERY smooth at this power setting (things get buzzy above 3200, but they are
working on new engine mounts and other things to correct this, and I am sure
the bare interior and the resultant oil-canning amplified the condition).
Temps: Inlet and outlet water temps centered around 190 deg. F (it was
really cool diving at 4000fpm and watching the temps stay rock solid - no
thermal shock here). Oil temp about 220 deg. F.
Conclusions: Performance comparable to a 160hp Lycoming installation. I am
a very conservative pilot, leaning towards tried and proven technology when
it comes to safety (meaning I like antiquated Lyconts when spinning the fan
up front).
However, if this conversion builds enough flight hours and proves itself I
may be in line for one. Lycont is going to be in real trouble if they don't
adapt...here are engines that can run unleaded fuel, run at stabilized temps
with no shock cooling problems, and be overhauled inexpensively.
In short, I liked it.
Rob Acker / RV-6Q / N164RA / Southern California
E-mail: r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com
RV-6Q Project: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNES_ERIC(at)TANDEM.COM |
| Subject: | /Retractable Gear |
Curtis,
A few tidbits on the retractable RV-4. I saw this plane at Van's
homecoming (Matt put a picture or two I took on his web page). I spoke
with the builder's wife - he has built two RV-4s virtually identical
except for the retractable gear. She claimed they only gained 20 lbs.
with the retracts and picked up 20 mph.
She also said he would never do it again. The wing is, of course,
extensively modified (tanks moved out, wing tapers forward at the root
ala Cherokee, in addition to the obvious), and you'll notice the
tailwheel also retracts. Wish I could tell you more!
EB
barnes_eric(at)tandem.com
------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT --------
SENT 11-25-96 FROM SMTPGATE (chinkley(at)ix.netcom.com)
Does anyone know what type of resin our RV fiberglass parts are made
with, polyester ? epoxy? Polyvinyl? I need to order the fiberglass
cloth and resin to finish the empennage.
Just finished reviewing the January 97 issue of Kitplanes. On page 10
is a nice picture of a white and red RETRACTABLE GEAR RV-4 from the
Arlington fly-in. Does anyone know who built this RV-4, tail number
looks like C-EGRC.
Has anyone given any though to a retractable RV, if so what did you
think the best donor airplane would be.
Curtis Hinkley
chinkley(at)ix.netcom.com
hinkleyc(at)fca.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
>I understand the relationship between Va and "full and abrubt control
>movement", but I was wondering if that applies to the ailerons as well as the
>elevator.
>
Ed,
Yes it does apply to the ailerons also. Items such as the aileron mounts,
bellcranks, buckling strength of the aileron push-pull tubes are designed
around the full deflection loads at Va. While the airframe might take a
full aileron deflection at 160 kts, the ailerons may decide to depart the
plane.
Please no flames, the splle checker works, don't have a grammr checher and
the info is being regurgitated from past AE design classes :)))
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward A. Seay (423)751-7343" <edward.a.seay(at)tva.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Leak Testing Fuel Tanks |
--Boundary-2454331-0-0
John:
Good story about cattle trought(sic) (sic) Good to see there are still a few
people on this list with a good sense of humor (sic)(sic). What does (sic)
mean anyway(sic)? Seems to describe the nurd.
___^___
|
|
_________________
O O ( ) O O
/ \
o o
Ed Seay eseay(at)tva.gov
--Boundary-2454331-0-0
From:"John Darby "
Subject: Re: RV-List: Leak Testing Fuel Tanks
Ron; I can tell you of a very cheap and Rube Goldberg method. Cut and
flare a short 4-5 inch tube and fit to the bulkhead fitting outside of the
tank on the fuel or vent line. Wrap enough masking tape tightly around the
end of it (make it large enough so that a toy balloon will fit tightly over
it). Do the same for the other fitting, but get a discarded tire valve stem
and tape it over the other outlet. Put the balloon on, fill the tank with
air until the balloon expands (the tank will make pop, crackle and snap
noises, but the balloon popped before the tank did). You might want to
inflate the balloon off the rig a few days before this test, to see if it
has a leak in it(two of mine did-cheap stuff). If gross leaks, you can hear
and or feel them, after you get those then from this point on, do it like a
tire or intertube---a water trough. I used my cattle waterer (my wife
refused to let me bring the tank in the house to put in the tub--she saw
what the proseal had done to me). The cows were very interested, but no help.
Hardest to get a seal--the inner rib access plate screws and the hole
through the filler cap that goes from the flip ears to the inner plate.
You are right-- I don't weigh enough to hold the entire tank under at once,
but I can't do a tube that way either.
Sorry, for the technically inclined, I don't know what type rubber the toy
balloons were made of, they cost 3 for 25 cents (US). And I didn't take a
reading as to what air pressure was required etc etc etc. I just did it and
it worked. I guess if you got balloons that were too tough, they may not
bust before the tank does. I lucked out.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
--Boundary-2454331-0-0--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com |
Doug,
You discussed setting the wing spar rivets with a 3X or 4X gun and the
Avery tool. That seems like a MUCH better idea than swinging a hammer.
Do you know if it can be done ( really ) with a 3X gun? If not, does
anybody know where one could obtain a bigger gun for a day?
thanks
John Walsh(at)cpeedy.enet.dec.com ( hoping he spelled everything write)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack & Diane Mahler & Joy <jax(at)brett.reno.nv.us> |
BDStobbe wrote:
>
> You wrote:
>
>I believe the correct word to use there is *its*.
>
> I guess none of us is above making a mistake!
>
> Sorry, I couldn't resist my .02 worth...I couldn't resist either. If you are
going to make corrections, even to
your own work, it's not its, it's it(')s.
jax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KVasey37(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Retractable Gear RV4 |
See the pictures!
website = www.matronics.com/rv-list/896rtk-1.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
Scott Gesele wrote:
>
> >I understand the relationship between Va and "full and abrubt control
> >movement", but I was wondering if that applies to the ailerons as well as the
> >elevator.
> >
>
>
>
> Ed,
>
> Yes it does apply to the ailerons also. Items such as the aileron mounts,
> bellcranks, buckling strength of the aileron push-pull tubes are designed
> around the full deflection loads at Va. While the airframe might take a
> full aileron deflection at 160 kts, the ailerons may decide to depart the
> plane.
>
> Please no flames, the splle checker works, don't have a grammr checher and
> the info is being regurgitated from past AE design classes :)))
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Scott Gesele N506RV
> scottg(at)villagenet.com
Sorry to change the subject but, are there any construction videos out
there for rv-4's? All I see are ones for 6's. Thanks!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillAkin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Leak Testing Fuel Tanks |
Proseal is ok for auto gas. Been flying 85TX three years (600 hrs.) and noooo
problems. Suggest you seal tanks in cool weather (increases working time
substantialy) with help. Don't skimp on the sealant . You can dress it up
from the rear before installing the baffle. be sure to scothchbrite the
entire inside, solvent clean (mek, acetone, etc.) and then scrub it clean
with a mild detergent and rinse clean.
I used sloshing compound on top of the proseal and have had no problems, but
I know several people who have had it come loose after several hours. Don't
know if this is because of insufficient cleaning or bad compound. Anyway you
should'nt need it if you use plenty of proseal. Iv'e been told the skins have
a fish oil residue on them and justsolvent cleaning them is insufficient.
Good Luck!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: OMABP Flight |
You wrote:
>
>Listers:
>
>For those interested in alternative powerplants, I had a chance to
sample
>the OMABP Chevy Vortec V6 powered RV-6 yesterday.
<>
>In short, I liked it.
>
>Rob Acker / RV-6Q / N164RA / Southern California
>E-mail: r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com
>RV-6Q Project: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker
Thanks much for the eval from an obviously unbiased source, Rob.
I think there are a *bunch* of us waiting for the hours to build
and then we'll latch on to that less than half price up front and
less than quarter price overhaul.
Best regards,
Bill Costello
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Building RV-6 | Reserv N97WC
Want an extra hour and a half of energy per day with Super Blue
Green products? Email for info or call 800-325-7544 Chicago
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Is a Guage really a GAUGE? |
<< > For the final time, listen up. It is G A U G E and C I R C U I T. and
E M P E N N A G E (as in tail)
and B R A K E S (as in parking)
and B R E A K S (as in broken)
and F U S E L A G E .......
and .....oh, forget it, >>
Great. I had forgotten those words since no one butchered them this week.
Thanks for the supplemental posting, and while we're at it, ITS is the
possessive sans apostrophy and IT'S is a contraction of IT IS. YOUR is the
possessive and YOU'RE is the contraction of YOU ARE. THEIR is the
possessive, THEY'RE is a contraction of THEY ARE and THERE indicates
position.
Pay attention, kids, there will be a test.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
Cranking in full aileron at 160 or 170 mph will put a lot
of twisting load on the wings. I am no AE, but the ailerons
will cause the wing to want to twist. I would expect this
would put a lot of load on the rear spar attach.
The ailerons are quite heavy at these speeds (meaning it takes
a lot of stick force to displace them). It does not take much
displacement to get a good roll.
Slow the plane down to 110 or 120 and they are a lot sloppier
and you can put in full aileron without much force.
I played with this the other day, and you can actually feel
the ailerons stall out at full deflection. Mark Fredrick (SP???)
and others have discussed this aileron stall or buffet (SP??)
several months back.
Herman (worlds worst speller, but thats what computers are for if you
want to take the time to spell check.)
dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
> >
> > >I understand the relationship between Va and "full and abrubt control
> > >movement", but I was wondering if that applies to the ailerons as well as
the
> > >elevator.
> > >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 slide canopy |
Frank Smidler asks:
>I am about to trim the skin over bulkhead 606 for a slide canopy and
>would like some input on how others have done it and what kind of
>clearnace to the canopy frame is needed....
I trimmed mine so that there is about 3/4 inch (or mayby an inch) of skin
fwd of the top center of the F606 bulkhead. The trim line exactly
parallels the rear bow of the canopy frame, leaving a gap of about 3 inches
between the fwd edge of the trimmed skin and the aft bow of the canopy
frame. You can probably trim a *little* more than taht, but not much. If
you trim any less than that at the bottom, then the pins at the aft corners
of the canopy frame will not clear the skin.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
Trimming the canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bseckstein(at)aol.com |
Ed,
I very much enjoyed your note the other day regarding tesing of 427EM. In it
you mentioned that you liked the Sensenich prop. I just got on the list, so
I'm missing a little info. Could you please publish some basic specs for us
newcomers? I would like to hear more regarding your testing experiences.
Brian Eckstein
RV-6A wings on the way
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Garth & Shelley Cruden <crudenit(at)iinet.net.au> |
Hi,
We haven't received any mail for the RV list for a couple of weeks, and
wanted to check it was still going.
We find the information on here very interesting.
Garth and Shelley Cruden
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.co.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rigid Fuel Lines |
Text item:
>Does anyone have any comments on using rigid lines ahead of the
>firewall?
Grumman American put a piece of soft tubing between the carburetor and the
fuel pump on the Cheetah. 19 years ago. No sign of problems.
FKJ
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Subject: RV-List: Rigid Fuel Lines
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 13:40:37 -0500
From: smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca!david_fried(at)matronics.com
ay.jf.intel.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA07340 for | Date: | Nov 26, 1996 |
| From: | gil(at)bala.HAC.COM (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: Rigid Fuel Lines |
*** sent privately ***
> I have a length of rigid tubing connecting a firewall bulkhead fitting
> and the gascolator. There is another connecting the Fuel Servo and the
> flowmeter.
>
> Each end of these fuel lines are connected to parts that don't move
> relative to each other. That is the intent, the structure is quite
> stiff but vibration may be a factor.
>
> The lines are made from the soft tubing provided in the kits. I plan
> to firesleeve them.
>
> Does anyone have any comments on using rigid lines ahead of the
> firewall?
>
> David Fried
> dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
>
> P.S. About the exchange between GV and Gary Corde... sheesh! :(
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
... boy, do I agree!!
David,
The Bingelis books say that this is perfectly OK (and even
recommended). The vibration aspects should be OK if you support the tubing
at the minimum distances specified in AC43.13A.
I don't have it with me at work, but it's something like 12 inch
minimum for the tube sizes we use. If the total tube length is less than
the minimum, then it counts as being supported by the other end ...:^)
However, stuff directly attached to the engine should probably be
steel (ref. the famous Lyc. AD on the prop. gov. drive oil supply line) on
both the tubing and the fittings.
... hope this helps ... Gil (I'm ging to do the same) Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
...Actually got in the cockpit last night and opened/closed my
tip-up canopy for the first time with the gas struts attached!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hsu <hsubox(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tools - does anyone ever sell their tools? |
Ed,
I would be interested in the videos, how current are they? Let me know if
they are still available.
John
hsubox(at)proaxis.com
>
>> I never see an ad selling tools - is there a taboo or does everyone just
>keep
>> them?
>
>I don't think there is a taboo, but for what they cost, you take a pretty big
>hit if you sell them. So unless you have no use for them anymore it's
>usually better to keep them.
>
>Along these lines, I have the construction videos for Wing, Fueselage, Finsh,
>& Systems that I don't need anymore. $100.
>
>Ed Bundy RV6A flying
>Eagle, ID
>ebundy2620(at)aol.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Leak Testing Fuel Tanks |
>I'm just about to start the wings. Can I ask how many people have found
>leaks after doing a careful job of prosealing? This sounds like a more
>common problem than I first thought. Also, does anyone know the effects of
>auto fuel on proseal? Is there an alternative to proseal that is more
>adaptable?
Who You?
I had problems with the access hole screws and the filler caps leaking
initially. Backed out the screws, a little slosh around them and reseating
did the job. The caps I had to make a 'washer' that fit around the stem but
would go into the recess for the O ring (I think they came with a piece of
black plastic between the O ring and the bottom of the eared flipper), any
way, that did that. After about 35 hours, got a slight leak on the left
tank, just below the leading edge radius, on the outboard rib (end).
Cleaned it up, gooked it with some proseal and hasn't leaked since.
I've had auto fuel in both tanks for some of the time, and keep it in my rt
tank almost all the time, no leaks, no indication of slosh coming through
the system. But I do have separate filters for each tank, just in case.
Who said I wasn't safety conscious?
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Leak Testing Fuel Tanks |
Roger Embree wrote:
> Pressure testing your tanks to even 1 psi will subject them to two orders of
> magnitude greater than their operating pressure (psf). I would advise looking
for an
> alternate method.
>
> Roger Embree RV6A empennage
> rae1(at)planeteer.com
Haven't done my tanks yet, but figured I would just fill them with gas,
leave them sit for a week or two and see if they leak.
Bob Reiff, RV4 wings almost done
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rigid Fuel Lines |
> I have a length of rigid tubing connecting a firewall bulkhead fitting
> and the gascolator. There is another connecting the Fuel Servo and the
> flowmeter.
> Each end of these fuel lines are connected to parts that don't move
> relative to each other. That is the intent, the structure is quite
> stiff but vibration may be a factor.
> Does anyone have any comments on using rigid lines ahead of the
> firewall?
>
> David Fried
As long as the Fuel Servo is mounted on the firewall the same as the
gascolator, I don't see a problem.
If you are concerned about the firewall vibrating (tin canning?) and if it
does that under one of the mounted units, then possibly a problem. But I
doubt that as happening.
If there is a segment of tubing out of the gascolator to the Fuel Servo and
flowmeter, and they are not mounted on the fire wall, then a flex hose from
there to the fuel pump, then you are putting the segment in position to be
vibrated, flexed, and possible lead to a crack in the segment. But I can't
imagine you having it that way.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Is a Guage really a GAUGE? |
<< Good grief GV! Lighten up. We can't all be perfect. >>
No. But we can do better. Quality is an attitude.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Haan <bobh(at)cdac.com> |
| Subject: | Pneumatic Squeezers |
Bob,
Thanks for the info. My favorite tool is your pneumatic squeezer. I often
see discussions on the net regarding the economics of buying one but the
quality of the result and, something that is not often mentioned, the fun
of operating it and seeing a dimple or a rivet formed like magic right in
front of your eyes with a swoosh in your ear is a lot of fun. Well worth
the price of admission.
As always, your great service is very much appreciated,
Bob
>Bob;
>The pneumatic squeezers are assembled new using Lubri-Plate grease on the
>leather seal in the piston section. Under normal use they should go for a
>long time without needing any additional lubrication. I don't think an
>occassional drop of oil in the inlet will hurt anything, but oiling too often
>could dilute the grease. If you get too much oil it will probably be
>spitting oil out as it exhausts the air after each cycle, and that is too
>much oil. Some of the oil will soak into the leather piston seal and that
>won't hurt anything. If the leather seal starts leaking you will be able to
>hear air escaping on the yoke end of the squeezer, when the lever is
>depressed and held down. The only thing that needs ocassional lubrication
>on a pneumatic squeezer is the set holder - both on the bottom (head) of the
>set holder & where the set holder rides in the yoke. Also, try to avoid
>letting metal chips, rivets, etc get in the squeezer around the yoke -- that
>area is open directly down to the working parts. (Put the squeezer away
>before blowing of the workbench -- plus any other air tools for that matter).
> I've seen more damage from foreign objects than from over-lubricating.
>
>Bob Avery
>
>
Bob Haan
Portland, OR
RV6A working on the fuselage frame
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael A. Pilla" <pilla(at)exit109.com> |
>Scott Gesele wrote:
>>
>Sorry to change the subject but, are there any construction videos out
>there for rv-4's? All I see are ones for 6's. Thanks!!
I have some videos of RV-4 construction put out by Dick Creswell; the tapes
jump around a lot, and there is a lot of background noise, but I did find
the tapes useful. You might check with George and/or Becki Orndorff; they
might have copies and/or know where to get them. (I got mine at an RV forum
in Frederick, MD a while back.)
Mike Pilla
RV-4, #2866, canopy finished, now trying to drill the gear legs.
Michael Pilla
pilla(at)exit109.com
v: (908) 566-7604
f: (908) 566-7936
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Is a Guage really a GAUGE? |
Hey GV: do my eyes deceive me or did you misspell "misspelled" in the Post
That Started It All?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Dixon <sdixon(at)laker.net> |
I've read over the last few days the discution of 2x vs 3x rivet guns.
It sounds like the 2x is the way to go. I am now looking for a good
place to by ALL the tools I will need for my upcoming project. ATS,
Avery, and others have in their catalog a RV4/RV6 tool kits. I have
heard good things about Avery's riveting tools, but the ATS kit sure has
a lot more stuff for about the same price. Should I buy a kit or just
piece one together from here and there as I go. Any info is appreciated.
Steve Dixon
sdixon(at)laker.net
RV8 tail on order
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kiwi(at)jetstream.net (Kiwi) |
I used a jig made to hold a 10 ton jack on the horizontal. Worked like a
charm.I was not concerned with the spreader bars falling down inside the
spar flanges as you may get with hammering or rivet guns. Easy to set the
rivet shop heads too as you just keep pumping until they are perfect.
Compared mine with another builders Phlogiston. Only difference is anodising
and $800 US. Anyone interested in the plans for the jig e-mail me with a fax no.
(Barry T ) kiwi(at)jetstream.net
Tail and Right wing complete RV6
================================================================================
>to: Doug Bloomberg
>
>
>Doug,
>You discussed setting the wing spar rivets with a 3X or 4X gun and the
>Avery tool. That seems like a MUCH better idea than swinging a hammer.
>Do you know if it can be done ( really ) with a 3X gun? If not, does
>anybody know where one could obtain a bigger gun for a day?
>
>thanks
>John Walsh(at)cpeedy.enet.dec.com ( hoping he spelled everything write)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kiwi(at)jetstream.net (Kiwi) |
| Subject: | Re: Rigid Fuel Lines |
Check out the mounting of the gascolator that Eustace Bowhay and Jim Rowe
have in the latest VANS RVator. It is mounted inboard of the left wing and
outboard of the fuselage. They are the same guys with the amphib floats on
the RV6.
Barry T RV6
===============================================================================
>> I have a length of rigid tubing connecting a firewall bulkhead fitting
>> and the gascolator. There is another connecting the Fuel Servo and the
>> flowmeter.
>
>> Each end of these fuel lines are connected to parts that don't move
>> relative to each other. That is the intent, the structure is quite
>> stiff but vibration may be a factor.
>> Does anyone have any comments on using rigid lines ahead of the
>> firewall?
>>
>> David Fried
>As long as the Fuel Servo is mounted on the firewall the same as the
>gascolator, I don't see a problem.
>If you are concerned about the firewall vibrating (tin canning?) and if it
>does that under one of the mounted units, then possibly a problem. But I
>doubt that as happening.
>If there is a segment of tubing out of the gascolator to the Fuel Servo and
>flowmeter, and they are not mounted on the fire wall, then a flex hose from
>there to the fuel pump, then you are putting the segment in position to be
>vibrated, flexed, and possible lead to a crack in the segment. But I can't
>imagine you having it that way.
>John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
>Stephenville TX
>johnd@our-town.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Re: Alternate Governors |
For those of you contemplating the purchase of a rebuilt governor, I have
some info that might interest you.
One of the governor rebuild shops (name witheld) was going to sell me a
rebuilt Woodward #210452 as a cross of the #B210776, which Van's sells for
$1200. Steve Thompson at Woodward specifically recommended staying away from
the #210452 governor on grounds that it has been known to be unstable. On
the other hand, he said that the #210490 was an acceptable substitute (and
there are others that will work). EMI in Tulsa, OK had one of these in
nearly new condition at a decent price, so I bought it.
Take this for what it's worth.
Here's hoping that I cared enough to spell everything right,
-Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Hoatson <lhoatson(at)deltanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic Squeezers |
I'm curious how much of an RV-6 kit can be done using the squeeze
versus a rivet gun. I've only used an 'armstrong' squeezer, never a
powered one. What source sells them, is there a difference among
brands, and what's the ballpark $$?
Larry
Restoring Cessna 170A N9948A
Already looking forward to the next project :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark D Hiatt" <OttoPilot_MSN(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Speeling Eroors. |
An awful lot has been made of this in the last day or so and *most* of it
seems to miss the point.
Nobody said anyone was ignorant.
Nobody questioned the quality of anyone's workmanship.
Nobody questioned anyone's flying skills.
Someone pointed out that computers will do only what you tell them to do. If
you search for "B-R-A-K-E-S" you won't find the world's *best* RV-List posting
about "B-R-E-A-K-E-S". It just isn't going to happen.
And the same people whining about being called on it today are the same ones
who'll say "Read the FAQ" and "It's in the Archives (stoopuhd!)" if someone
new to the list comes in to ask about brakes in January.
We all want to darken the skies with finely built RVs. Let's not get too
bogged-down when someone points out that we're human. Which would you rather
have happen, someone point out there is no such word as "alot" and be
embarrassed for a moment, or continue to use it forever and have people laugh
at you? In the Grand Scheme of Things this is pretty a pretty minor irritant.
But nobody needed to go ballistic and start flinging words like "Nazi" around.
Hell, I've got relatives who still have tatoos who would love to talk about
Nazi's, sometime. That kind of response shows a lot more ignorance than bad
spelling. It's all about searching through the archives and making the List a
better tool. Nobody said "Gee, I can't help but notice that you've lived in
this country for forty-three years and never bothered to learn to the
language". They said "If you spell goofy, nobody can find your messages later"
which *should* be a compliment-that anyone would WANT to look it up in the
future.
As we get more and more members in the list, traffic is going to go up. Folks
are going to stray from the topic and the List will start to look more and
more like... America. There'll be a lot more of this kind of thing as we
variously push each other's hot-buttons. PC is rampant. Someone is going to
come in and wonder about doing business with an Oregon company, because You
Know How They Think In Oregon. Someone is going to be upset about where the
Q-birds born. That stuff doesn't bother me at all, but the original point
about searching is a real problem. It would be nice if people would craft
their RV-List messages with the same care they give their airplanes-or even
better, evidently.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HinkleyC(at)fca.gov |
Steve,
When it comes to tools the old saying "you get what you pay" is
very true. I purchased all of my tools from Bob Avery and have
been very satisfied. I am most pleased with my decision to
purchase the pneumatic squeezer with a 3" yoke and a 3/4" no
hole yoke.
Curtis Hinkley
RV8
chinkley(at)ix.netcom.com
hinkleyc(at)fca.gov
************************************
Steve Dixon - wrote
************************************
I've read over the last few days the discution of 2x vs 3x rivet guns.
It sounds like the 2x is the way to go. I am now looking for a good
place to by ALL the tools I will need for my upcoming project. ATS,
Avery, and others have in their catalog a RV4/RV6 tool kits. I have
heard good things about Avery's riveting tools, but the ATS kit sure
has
a lot more stuff for about the same price. Should I buy a kit or just
piece one together from here and there as I go. Any info is
appreciated.
Steve Dixon
sdixon(at)laker.net
RV8 tail on order
**********************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rigid Fuel Lines |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
David,
I used rigid lines (3/8" alum) between the firewall and the
gascolator, and between the gascolator and the flowmeter. The gascolator
and flowmeter are rigid mounted to the firewall. I did firesleeve these
rigid lines. With 800+ hrs on my -6A, I've not seen any evidence of these
lines cracking or leaking
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca!david_fried(at)matronics.com writes:
> I have a length of rigid tubing connecting a firewall bulkhead
fitting
> and the gascolator. There is another connecting the Fuel Servo and
the
> flowmeter.
>
> Each end of these fuel lines are connected to parts that don't move
> relative to each other. That is the intent, the structure is quite
> stiff but vibration may be a factor.
>
> The lines are made from the soft tubing provided in the kits. I
plan
> to firesleeve them.
>
> Does anyone have any comments on using rigid lines ahead of the
> firewall?
>
> David Fried
> dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
>
> P.S. About the exchange between GV and Gary Corde... sheesh! :(
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dieck(at)apexcomm.net (Robert Dieck) |
| Subject: | Re: tool supliers |
>I've read over the last few days the discution of 2x vs 3x rivet guns.
>It sounds like the 2x is the way to go. I am now looking for a good
>place to by ALL the tools I will need for my upcoming project. ATS,
>Avery, and others have in their catalog a RV4/RV6 tool kits. I have
>heard good things about Avery's riveting tools, but the ATS kit sure has
>a lot more stuff for about the same price. Should I buy a kit or just
>piece one together from here and there as I go. Any info is appreciated.
>
>
>Steve Dixon
>sdixon(at)laker.net
>RV8 tail on order
>
>
The 2 best are Cleaveland and Avery. Most listers know about Avery (good
source) but many are unfarmiliar with Cleaveland.
You will NOT get a bad tool from Cleaveland everything they sell is
quality!!! US tool has good prices on starter sets.
Can't recommend ATS unless you have it in your hand and see what you getting.
Cleavland tool 1-800-368-1822
US Tool 1-800-521-4800
Bob
Robert/Tammie Dieck
Wausau WI USA
dieck(at)apexcomm.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dieck(at)apexcomm.net (Robert Dieck) |
| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic Squeezers |
>I'm curious how much of an RV-6 kit can be done using the squeeze
>versus a rivet gun. I've only used an 'armstrong' squeezer, never a
>powered one. What source sells them, is there a difference among
>brands, and what's the ballpark $$?
>
>Larry
>Restoring Cessna 170A N9948A
> Already looking forward to the next project :)
>
>
>
I have both the Avery squeezer with a 1-1/2" and 5" yoke and a pneumatic I
use both regularly. Sometimes the pneumatic won't fit in to the space, and
it takes longer to set up. If you have just a couple of rivets or they are
different lengths its faster to squeeze them by hand.
Bob
Robert/Tammie Dieck
Wausau WI USA
dieck(at)apexcomm.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dieck(at)apexcomm.net (Robert Dieck) |
>I used a jig made to hold a 10 ton jack on the horizontal. Worked like a
>charm.I was not concerned with the spreader bars falling down inside the
>spar flanges as you may get with hammering or rivet guns. Easy to set the
>rivet shop heads too as you just keep pumping until they are perfect.
>Compared mine with another builders Phlogiston. Only difference is anodising
>and $800 US. Anyone interested in the plans for the jig e-mail me with a
fax no.
>
>(Barry T ) kiwi(at)jetstream.net
>Tail and Right wing complete RV6
>===========================================================================
=====
>>to: Doug Bloomberg
>>
>>
>>Doug,
>>You discussed setting the wing spar rivets with a 3X or 4X gun and the
>>Avery tool. That seems like a MUCH better idea than swinging a hammer.
>>Do you know if it can be done ( really ) with a 3X gun? If not, does
>>anybody know where one could obtain a bigger gun for a day?
>>
>>thanks
>>John Walsh(at)cpeedy.enet.dec.com ( hoping he spelled everything write)
>>
>
>
Don't let swinging a hammer scare you. Yes it does seem primative but I did
both spars in less than 2 hours. Started with light taps but after about 6
rivets I was useing hard blows. By the end it would only take 3 or 4 blows,
you can't over drive a rivet because it gets as hard as a rock when set.
Best of all I saved some money for something else.
Bob
Robert/Tammie Dieck
Wausau WI USA
dieck(at)apexcomm.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillAkin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: tool supliers |
Steve:
It's the old "You get what you pay for" story. I've bought a couple of items
from the "more tools for less supplier you mentioned" and wasn't happy with
the quality. You're going to develope an intimate relationship with your
tools during the course of this project therefore you need good ones.
Besides, try calling the afore mentioned supplier and getting assistance on
what you buy, especially as it relates to your project. Most likely you'll
get a sales clerk that could care less about which end of a screwdriver you
use. Bob Avery takes a personal interest in his business (too much to get his
"4" built and I know he's listening in) and you'll get good tools for a fair
price. If you can find the same tool cheaper go for it but make sure your
comparing apples to apples. He manufactures a lot of his own tools in his
shop because he can't get the quality he demands from an outside supplier
(ie. squeezer). I don't really like the guy but he gives good tools. :-). Bye
the way, his wife Judy will promise not to tell your wife (assuming you have
one) what you actually spend on tools. Buy the kit if you can. You'll need
every thing in it eventually and you get a price break.
Good Luck!
BA RV6A N85TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bseckstein(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: tool supliers |
You're going to spend a lot of time with your rivetting tools in your hands.
If you buy the best tools, any construction problems will be pilot error. A
friend building a 6A went bargain hunting and bought cheap tools. After he
broke a few, (the handle broke off his squeezer) he decided to spend some
money at avery. I'm glad he made the mistake for me. When I asked his
advice about tools, he said ' Buy from Avery'. It was good advice. A good
tool will last a lifetime. I can't count the cheap tools I've thrown out.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rigid Fuel Lines |
>Check out the mounting of the gascolator that Eustace Bowhay and Jim Rowe
>have in the latest VANS RVator. It is mounted inboard of the left wing and
>outboard of the fuselage. They are the same guys with the amphib floats on
>the RV6.
>
FWIW, I just installed my gascolator in the same location. The
installation was very easy. There were no interference with the lower part
of the engine mount, a small hole in the wing/ fuse fairing is all that's
needed for the sump valve, it will stay cool, any small leaks in the
gascolator will remain clear of the exhaust and it's at the lowest part of
the fuel system. I can't think of any reason not to install it here.
On a different note, I was told it's better to install the gascolator on the
RIGHT side of the plane and put the bulkhead fitting on the right side of
the firewall. This change in the drawings came from one of Van's employees
about a year ago, sorry I forgot who it was. The reason is that the inlet
to the Lycoming fuel pump is facing to the right. Running the fuel lines on
the right side will result in a straighter shot into the pump.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dieck(at)apexcomm.net (Robert Dieck) |
| Subject: | RV6a Landing Gear |
The plans for the main gear for the 6a show that the F6101 doubler uses
universal rivets. Does the wing root cover all of these rivets or are some
of the forward rivets flush? I placed a template against the fuselage side
and it appears that some rivets show.
Bob
Robert/Tammie Dieck
Wausau WI USA
dieck(at)apexcomm.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | FlowScan Location |
Listers,
I'm at the stage of my fuel system where I need to find the location for the
FlowScan sensor. Where have most builders been putting this? It was
recommended that it be installed forward of the gascolator to ensure
filtered fuel going through it. The fuel pump is attached directly to the
outlet of the fuel selector valve. I was considering installing it between
the fuel pump and gascolator. This location would be putting unfiltered
fuel through the FlowScan. Even with the turbine of the FlowScan completely
stopped, there is only a small pressure drop across the sensor, according to
the data sheets. My thinking is that the fuel we put in the tanks is
already filtered (I didn't slosh my tanks). Any leak in the fuel system
(including the gascolator) will show up as a much higher than normal fuel
flow. Remember the RV that went down because the pilot left the drain valve
open on the gascolator?
Any thoughts or comments on this?
Scott Gesele N506RV
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillAkin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rigid Fuel Lines |
I originally installed a cheap ACS gascolater on the firewall of my 6A and
had problems here in Texas with vapor lock using auto gas. On a typically hot
Texas summer day scaulding hot fuel vapor could be drained from the
gascolator. Removed the gascolator which is not at the system low point
anyway and installed good high capacity auto filters in each fuel line
between the tank and fuel valve. Problem solved completely. Don't really like
the electric pump in series with the engine pump and mabe someday I'll set it
up parallel but I don't reccomend the electric pump being in the cockpit or
engine compartment if you burn auto gas. Have a good friend who set his up
this way (like a piper) using an aircraft pump and he doesn't have any
problems, but he uses Avgas in a 180 Lyc. Gascolater in space between wing
root and fuse should work great but it seams a bit inconvenient to service.
Plus side is low point in the system and away from the heat. I change the
filters every 100 hours or at annual and have found very little trash. Think
about how often you have problems with a fuel filter in an auto.
BA RV6A N85TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shobenshield(at)cmsd.bc.ca (Shirley Hobenshield) |
I have been reading this site for the past year and a half and thought you
folks should know that RV-6 C-FXXG took to the air June 18/96. She now has
29.8 hrs and has not displayed any emotional trama.
I must admit that she must be kept at bay ( stay ahead of her ) or you may
wish you had taken some instruction from Mike or another RV instructor.
My experience has been with Piper Rag-wings, Tomahawks, Cessna's , 65hp &
85hp Champs, and a healthy dose of C-185, which I flew on wheels, skis, and
Floats.
Just before starting the flight tests on the RV6 I Tuned up with the 185.
What a suprize. I found that on the first take-off I applied power, held
right rudder, and found myself almost airborne and veering off to the left
in short order. This was not a big problem, as the airplane responded to
the control inputs in a light and positive nature. WOW! Once you could
feel those wings bite, and nose up, it seemed like someone kicked in the
afterburners!
Returning to our 1100ft strip things got really heated up!( She would'nt
slow down ) Well she does, but man, that strip looked short. 100 mph, 1
then 2 notches of flaps, 75 indicated and a good 3 point on the grass
threshold. No problem.
Power- 320 B2C ( R-22 engine at 392hrs since new 89 )
High country exhust
VFR inst. with Garmin GRS, and full engine monitering system.
comm. elt.
69x69 Colin Walker Prop
We have made a few minor adjustments, trim added to rudder as you had to
hold slight rudder in level flight, added a lead weight to the foreward
engine compartment. This weight will aid in keeping our c of g foreward
with gross weight.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
By the end it would only take 3 or 4 blows,
you can't over drive a rivet because it gets as hard as a rock when set.
Best of all I saved some money for something
I seem to remember that work hardeneing the rivets could be a problem
and doing too many light blows would do that.
A couple or so hard whacks is better than a lot of little ones.
I used a hydraulic car jack that had been modified by someone else just
for the job...it worked a treat.
Ken RV6 flying (actually, not much with the weather the way it is right
now here...except of course during the week when I'm at work and the
weather's perfect for flying...grrrrr)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com |
re: spar rivet setting....
I'm not afraid of swinging the hammer. It's just that if I use the gun
and the Avery tool, I am essentially duplicating the riveting of the rear
spar of the HS. This means I can put the spar up on my 10' long work bench,
easily level it working at waist level and see what I'm doing as I rivet it.
I think this would be preferable to working on the floor.
The jack idea is interesting but I still think the gun is choice #1.
thanks
John Walsh(at)cpeedy.enet.dec.com ( who doesn't even have a spell checker ).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | Rigid Fuel Lines & Oil Cooler Hoses |
Thanks for the responses to my request for comment on rigid fuel lines
ahead of the firewall. I'm up to three now.
Bulkhead fitting to gascolator.
Mechanical fuel pump to flowmeter.
Flowmeter to fuel injection servo.
The line from the fuel injection servo to the flow divider is next on
my list. There are a number of turns needed to route it away from the
crossover exhaust, it will be a challenge to bend. The length will
probably require it to be supported in the middle.
Fire-sleeve material is a tube somewhat greater in diameter than the
fittings of the hose/tube that passes through it. The third item on my
list has a section which runs parallel to the throttle arm (full
throttle) for a few inches. There is a half inch clearance from the
arm to the tube that I expect will disappear due to the bulk of the
fire-sleeve. In this area I will probably wrap the fire-sleeve with
some sort of tape to keep it snug and out of the way. There is a type
that bonds to itself an won't peel. I can't remember the brand.
One more thought on fire-sleeve. I have a hose that came insulated
with my engine. The fire-sleeve ends were dipped in some sort of
liquid rubber that seals the edge and keeps the white interior from
fraying. A nice idea that I will use on the rest of my insulated
lines.
Are those folks who have problems getting the oil temperature up using
-6 or -8 oil cooler hoses? It seems to me that the smaller hoses will
help keep things warmer. The ports on the oil cooler and engine case
are large enough that either size may be accommodated by selecting the
appropriate fittings. My engine came with a -6 fitting at the outlet
to the cooler, is this large enough for a 360?
David Fried
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles H Fink <CHFINK(at)envc.sandia.gov> |
I have a ACK Technologies ELT installed. At the last preflight I found =
that the antenna had separated at the base and departed the RV. This is =
not acceptable at 76 hours.
Has anyone else experienced this problem with an ACK antenna?=20
Antenna Placement: It was my understanding the ELT antenna must be placed =
on the exterior of the aircraft to meet the regs. that went into effect =
last year but I can*t verify that. FAR 91.207 stipulates the ELT must be =
properly installed but does not define proper installation and I can*t =
find a copy of TSO-C91A on the net. Does anyone out there know the *legal* =
requirements for ELT antenna installation in the USA? After this incident =
I am considering relocating the antenna to the interior although I =
consider that a poor location.=20
I*ll be off the net until Dec. 2 so thanks in advance for your help.
Charles Fink, RV-6, N548CF flying
chfink=40envc.sandia.gov
Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net> |
Does any one have an address or phone # of Jerry Scott.
I know he works and flys out of Chino, CA.
He is the guy who built the RV6 in 90 days.
Any help would be appreciated.
Ed Cole
emcole(at)concentric.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E Steffens" <resteffe(at)dpcmail.dukepower.com> |
| Subject: | Rigid Fuel Lines - Fuel Filters |
Which particular filter is a "good high capacity auto filter"?? I'm
installing an IO-360 in my RV-6 and think individual fuel filters are
better that a gascolator, but which ones are right for the pressure
and flow of an injected 180 hp?
Dick Steffens
resteffe(at)dpcmail.dukepower.com
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rigid Fuel Lines
Date: 11/27/96 11:12 AM
I originally installed a cheap ACS gascolater on the firewall of my 6A and
had problems here in Texas with vapor lock using auto gas. On a typically hot
Texas summer day scaulding hot fuel vapor could be drained from the
gascolator. Removed the gascolator which is not at the system low point
anyway and installed good high capacity auto filters in each fuel line
between the tank and fuel valve. ---Snip
BA RV6A N85TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
>I have some videos of RV-4 construction put out by Dick Creswell; the tapes
>jump around a lot, and there is a lot of background noise, but I did find
>the tapes useful. You might check with George and/or Becki Orndorff; they
>might have copies and/or know where to get them. (I got mine at an RV forum
>in Frederick, MD a while back.)
I have the Orndorffs' empennage video. In many ways it's probably more
relevant to an RV-4 builder than for a -6. It was made before the skins were
pre-punched, so (for example) it shows all the lining up of ribs, etc needed
to drill the skins.
Nevertheless, I wouldn't be without it for building my plane. I strongly
recommend it to any RV builder. (It would be nice if this became a paid
endorsement, but somehow I don't think so :-)
Frank.
(Building rudder, wings (& Orndorff wing video) ordered.)
PS: A friend and I video'ed us skinning my HS; the, um, quality of the, ah,
dialogue is somewhat higher in the Orndorffs' version.Anyone know where I
can find a label with "Caution: contains coarse language -- not suitable for
children." on it? ;-)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Gascolators, was Rigid Fuel Lines |
<< FWIW, I just installed my gascolator in the same location. The
installation was very easy. There were no interference with the lower part
of the engine mount, a small hole in the wing/ fuse fairing is all that's
needed for the sump valve, it will stay cool, any small leaks in the
gascolator will remain clear of the exhaust and it's at the lowest part of
the fuel system. I can't think of any reason not to install it here. >>
Well if I had to do it over again -or on my next RV- I wouldn't install a
gascolator at all. The lowest point in the fuel system (at least on an RV-4
& 6) is at the drain valve of each wing tank. Don't believe me, drain your
tanks and then remove them from the wings; then try to get the rest of the
fuel out. There isn't any (I know this because I just removed my tanks when
I painted my aircraft). So it can be assumed that any standing water can be
drained from this location. If you take a fuel sample after each top-off and
before each day of flying, this proceedure will purge your system of any
water.
To catch any dirt or particals in the fuel system, I would use a see-through
filter between the fuel selector and the low-pressure electric fuel pump. In
my mind this is a much less complicated, and more reliable fuel system.
The gascolator is tractor tech that should be left behind.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Rigid Fuel Lines and Brake Lines |
I used Aeroquip hose for all of my connections in the aircraft. Braided lines
for the fuel system, oil system and brakes; rubber for all other (pitot,
static and vacuum). I felt that the aluminum lines would fatigue over time.
I replaced my brake lines with braided Teflon lines because I have heard too
many horror stories about the brake lines on RV's heating-up with
catastrophic consequences.
Besides, braided lines look real cool.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: First flight |
<< This weight will aid in keeping our c of g foreward
with gross weight. >>
Thanks for the flight report. In time (and when money allows) I would
replace the lead weight with a dynamic prop balancer. It will give your
engine more "flywheel" which will give you a smoother idle with your wood
prop. Additionally, it should give you some more RPM in cruise and climb.
The lead weight gives you nothing but weight. Get something in return!
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: FloScan Location |
>--------------
>Listers,
>
>I'm at the stage of my fuel system where I need to find the location for the
>FloScan sensor. Where have most builders been putting this? It was
>recommended that it be installed forward of the gascolator to ensure
>filtered fuel going through it. The fuel pump is attached directly to the
>outlet of the fuel selector valve. I was considering installing it between
>the fuel pump and gascolator. This location would be putting unfiltered
>fuel through the FloScan. Even with the turbine of the FloScan completely
>stopped, there is only a small pressure drop across the sensor, according to
>the data sheets. My thinking is that the fuel we put in the tanks is
>already filtered (I didn't slosh my tanks). Any leak in the fuel system
>(including the gascolator) will show up as a much higher than normal fuel
>flow. Remember the RV that went down because the pilot left the drain valve
>open on the gascolator?
>
>Any thoughts or comments on this?
>
>Scott Gesele N506RV
>scottg(at)villagenet.com
>
>--------------
The FloScan 201 transducers (not to be confused with the Matronics
FuelScan LT and DX Totalizer/Computer systems which coincidentally use the
FloScan 201 transducer as well) are designed to mesasure steady-state
flow rates. *Any* sort of turbulence or pulsation in the line will cause
it to measure inaccurately. The 201 was really not meant to be used in
fuel systems with diaphram fuel pumps since these put huge pulsations in
the fuel. FloScan also makes a 264 transducer that is somewhat physically
larger than the 201. This transducer includes a "pulsation dampener"
(basically a flywheel). The 264 has never been approved for aircraft use,
however. FloScan also sells a passive device for the fuel line called
a pulsation isolator. It is basically an "air shock" or "air hammer"
constructed from a stainless steel sphere with a fitting on the bottom. The
unit is installed in the fuel line with a 'tee' fitting and the ball facing
upwards. A cushion of air trapped inside of the ball dampens the pulsation of
the fuel. Pulsation in the fuel line is particularly noticeable when the
klapper-type electric fuel pump is switched on, sometimes increasing flow
readings by as much as 2-3 GPH (actual flow doesn't increase)! I have a
couple of customers testing the sphere pulsation isolator device now to see
how effective it really is.
Customers have consistanly reported that mounting the 201 transducer anywhere
near the carb, engine driven fuel pump, or the gascolator result in poor
overall accuracy. On the other hand, builders that have mounted the
201 transducer as far away from these components as possible have reported
far better results. Based on this, Matronics now recommends that the
transducer used with FuelScan LT and DX installations be located between the
fuel selector valve and the first fuel pump, ideally 6-8" from the output of
the selector valve. Since this is basically unfiltered fuel, a small inline
fuel filter is recommended somewhere before inlet of the transducer.
Finding the "perfect" location for the transducer generally requires some
black magic. You might want to contact the manufacture of the flow
*instrument* (you will find FloScan, the transucer manufacture, generally not
very helpful and usually misleading for reasons above) and inquire about their
experience with transducer location and accuracy. If you do contact the
instrument manuafacture, please post their comments.
For those of you interested in a new Fuel Totalizer/Computer system, please
have a look at the Matronics FuelScan LT or DX. The FuelScan is an excellent,
high-quality system and it is exceptionally well priced. Visit the FuelScan
Web page for complete information at:
http://www.matronics.com
or email your US Mail address to:
info(at)matronics.com
to receive a complete paper brochure and price list.
Matt Dralle
Matronics
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | L & M Rowles <lmrowles(at)netspace.net.au> |
| Subject: | Avery Enerprises |
As an Australian RVer I can say in that in my area (Gippsland Victoria)
Avery Enterprises has become the standard for tools. Others are respected
also, but Bob seems to always be to available to help you pick the right
tool and as others have mentioned the quality is there.
Regards Les Rowles
Traralgon 3844
AUSTRALIA
lmrowles(at)netspace.net.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillAkin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rigid Fuel Lines - Fuel Filters |
Dick :
I don't recall the number right off but the ones I used are all metal
Puralator brand about 3" X 1 1/2" dia with 3/8" clamp hose fittings. If the
3/8" tubing fuel lines called for in the plans are ok for your injected
engine, these filters will be adequate. At any rate you need to run a fuel
flow check with them installed to make sure. unhook at the injector, turn on
the pump and measure flow rate. Flow rate should be the same as for a
carburated 180 but under higher pressure for the injectors.
Good Luck!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
BDStobbe wrote:
>
> Another method for monitoring a very low pressure on the fuel tanks for leak
> blow into the hose using lung power
> and *inflate* the tank until the water rises about 12 inches in your water level
> which I believe is roughly equal to .5 psi. Now you can seal the hose by
> crimping it, mark the water level with a marker, and wait with baited breath
to
> see if the water level drops.
>
> Just remember that the pressure in the tank will vary with temperature when you
> select the area in which to perform the test.
>
> You could also submerge the tank and look for bubbles while blowing.
Feedback is immediate - no waiting for water level change or wondering if
air pressure changes affected the result. No need to submerge entire
tank. You can do the bottom half, then flip it over.
That's how we used to find tire leaks back on the farm. Just stuck
'em (sic) in the stock tank.
Bob Reiff, RV4 (doing wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillAkin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antennas |
Charles:
Don't know about any regs requiring an outside antenna, but some ELT's like
my ECB have the antenna built on to it so it can't be mounted outside.
BA RV6A N85TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
Bill, could you send me youre mail address. I'd like to talk off line
about your vapour (vapor) lock problem.
Thanks
j.ken_hitchmough(at)mail.magic.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | twood <woodfam(at)aloha.com> |
Sorry that this is some what off topic, but I thought that the folks
pursuing auto engine conversions might find this interesting.
Terray
>Return-Path: owner-cozy_builders(at)hpwarhw.an.hp.com
>Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:08:30 -0400
>From: Carlos Vicente Leon <services(at)argonaut.net>
>Organization: Maquinaria Diekmann
>To: COZY_BUILDERS(at)hpwarhw.an.hp.com
>Subject: COZY: cozy TWIN
>Sender: owner-cozy_builders(at)hpwarhw.an.hp.com
>Reply-To: Carlos Vicente Leon
>
>From: Ruben and Carlos Leon (Bros)
> Valencia - Venezuela
>
>We are currently in the finishing process of a MK-IV (no. 308). We
>have decided to make it a twin by installing two SUZUKI 1600cc, 100HP,
>4 cylinder in line engines. The configuration is: dual, 2:1 belt driven
>independent propellers in a coaxial form.
>
>The decision to do this came from the believe that standard aircraft
>engines are out of date, lack efficiency and are expensive to mantain.
>Why twin ? The Venezuelan terrain is not exactly flat. We are not
>prepared to risk safety by testing an automobile engine as the
>only sourse of power in such a hot airplane.
>
>The coaxial counter-rotating configuration (two propellers on the same
>axis,one right behind the other) works out nice on the Cozy because
>of its geometry. We are still not sure if this configuration is
>more efficient than having them next to each other.
>
>Having a CNC machine shop helped Ruben a a great deal in the parts
>fabrication process. Installing an automobile engine is hard but doing
>a coaxial counter-rotating configuration requires some engineering. All
>parts are CAD designed, CAM programmed and CNC manufactured.
>I (Carlos) myself am more dedicated to the building, avionics, control,
>electrical and interior part of the aircraft.
>
>The engines seat next to each other (right and left) of the Cozy centre
>axis. The left engine has its driving poly-V pulley facing the firewall
>and drives the inner shaft (2:1) which is connected all the way back to
>the rear propeller. The right engine has its driving pulley facing
>the rear and drives (2:1) the outer shaft connected to the front
>propeller. Separation between props is about 10".
>
>There are two completely independent electrical systems with two
>batteries.This is because we are keeping the original distributor
>with its own electronic ignition system. Also we are using one fuel
>system with two electrical pumps, one for backup.
>
>Up to now we have assembled the airplane, done the primer on the
>exterior and installed both engines and avionics. This past
>weekend we tested one of the engines with a test propeller and all
>systems seemed to work out fine. We have some problems with
>overheating but are resolving this very soon.
>
>If there is anyone doing automobile conversions, we would like to hear
>comments and suggestions that would help us know possible problems
>before we fly.
>
>Regards
>Carlos Leon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rigid Fuel Lines & Oil Cooler Hoses |
I think you want to use 'hose' between the FI servo and the flow divider
(which is normally at the top of the engine. I have NEVER see this done
with tubing. Use the Aeroquip 303 type hose with fire sleve or a
hose with teflon center plus fire sleve.
I use the steel braided hose with teflon center on everything past the
gascolator (plus the fire sleeve). This includes the oil cooler lines.
I like the teflon type hose as it is not affected by any of the various
types of fuel. I don't recall the number of the hose but Aeroquip and
others have it. Most of the local hydraulic/ bearing houses have the hose.
Herman
dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
> Thanks for the responses to my request for comment on rigid fuel lines
> ahead of the firewall. I'm up to three now.
>
> Bulkhead fitting to gascolator.
> Mechanical fuel pump to flowmeter.
> Flowmeter to fuel injection servo.
>
> The line from the fuel injection servo to the flow divider is next on
> my list. There are a number of turns needed to route it away from the
> crossover exhaust, it will be a challenge to bend. The length will
> probably require it to be supported in the middle.
>
> Fire-sleeve material is a tube somewhat greater in diameter than the
> fittings of the hose/tube that passes through it. The third item on my
> list has a section which runs parallel to the throttle arm (full
> throttle) for a few inches. There is a half inch clearance from the
> arm to the tube that I expect will disappear due to the bulk of the
> fire-sleeve. In this area I will probably wrap the fire-sleeve with
> some sort of tape to keep it snug and out of the way. There is a type
> that bonds to itself an won't peel. I can't remember the brand.
>
> One more thought on fire-sleeve. I have a hose that came insulated
> with my engine. The fire-sleeve ends were dipped in some sort of
> liquid rubber that seals the edge and keeps the white interior from
> fraying. A nice idea that I will use on the rest of my insulated
> lines.
>
> Are those folks who have problems getting the oil temperature up using
> -6 or -8 oil cooler hoses? It seems to me that the smaller hoses will
> help keep things warmer. The ports on the oil cooler and engine case
> are large enough that either size may be accommodated by selecting the
> appropriate fittings. My engine came with a -6 fitting at the outlet
> to the cooler, is this large enough for a 360?
>
> David Fried
> dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antennas |
>I have a ACK Technologies ELT installed. At the last preflight I found that
the >antenna had separated at the base and departed the RV. This is not
acceptable at 76 >hours.
> Does anyone out there know the *legal* requirements for ELT antenna
installation in >the USA? After this incident I am considering relocating
the antenna to the interior >although I consider that a poor location.
>Charles Fink, RV-6, N548CF flying chfink(at)envc.sandia.gov Albuquerque, New
Mexico, USA
Charles, I thought the ACK was a pretty crude antenna. I've seen several
that have been mounted on the exterior of the aircraft that have rusted. I
mounted mine in the baggage area of the RV-6 with the antenna tip centered
in the back glass. I agree that from an electronic view point that this is
not the best location. (Of course, my antenna is still on after 350 hours).
My thoughts on mounting were twofold. First, I didn't want to mount the
ugly thing on the outside of my six. Second, I figured that an external
antenna, whether mounted on the top or bottom has a chance of being ripped
off in an accident and I felt that the cockpit offered the most protection.
BTW, the EBC ELTs do not use an external antenna.
Bob Skinner RV-6 350 hours BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Pre purchase questions |
Hi all,
I almost sent Van a check yesterday. It is a two month wait for a 6AQ!
But I had a question or two...
Can (I know that Van says no!) the 6A be flown with the sliding canopy open?
How do you get out of a 6A if it flips on landing, esp emergency and the
nosewheel hits a gopher hole?
What kind of problems does the plane have over time? Especially, does the sheet
metal crack? Or I suppose I should ask where since all aluminum aircraft crack.
Wooden ones rot, plastic ones delaminate etc.
When the fuel tanks *DO* begin to leak, what do you do?
If it takes 1000 hours to do a Quick build, how much of that is riveting and
sheetmetal work - that is not plumbing, wiring, upholstering, painting etc.
Is the 200 hp Lyc too much power if used mainly for climbing out of mountain
airports?
(RV-6AQ Have wife's blessings, money, two car garage - just need some answers!)
Hal Kempthorne
Debonair N6134V (for sale in '98!)
halk(at)netcom.com
Santa Clara, CA.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WstcttPrss(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 11/27/96 8:03:17 PM, you wrote:
<>
Ed,
Jerry Scott can be reached @ (909) 393-1538/Chino Airport/Chino CA/Hangar 72.
Each time I have visited or called, I have tried to be mindful of his time.
He builds RV's from sun up until he drops 6 1/2 days a week. He has built
the better part of 15 RV's (including the #2 plane at Osh this year). For
anyone who needs a difficult part of a project built out, this is the guy.
Jeff Carpenter
Forever empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Rigid Fuel Lines and Brake Lines |
Gary,
> I used Aeroquip hose for all of my connections in the aircraft. Braided lines
> for the fuel system, oil system and brakes; rubber for all other (pitot,
> static and vacuum). I felt that the aluminum lines would fatigue over time.
Don't forget to replace all those rubber (Aeroquip included) hoses on a regular
basis! They deteriorate over time.
My old 1965 Deb has many that have no problems. Hoses replaced many times
usually every 5 years.
What brake line horror stories have you heard?
Hal Kempthorne
Debonair N6134V (for sale in '98!)
halk(at)netcom.com
Santa Clara, CA.
(Have wife blessings, money, two car garage - just need some answers!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Leak Testing Fuel Tanks |
>Ron; I can tell you of a very cheap and Rube Goldberg method. Cut and
>flare a short 4-5 inch tube and fit to the bulkhead fitting outside of the
>tank on the fuel or vent line. Wrap enough masking tape tightly around the
>end of it (make it large enough so that a toy balloon will fit tightly over
>it). Do the same for the other fitting, but get a discarded tire valve stem
>and tape it over the other outlet. Put the balloon on, fill the tank with
>John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
>Stephenville TX
>johnd@our-town.com
>
John,
A modification of this technique for non-rural dwellers is to spray a soap
solution out of a small hand sprayer over the tank, holes then blow bubbles
quite nicely.
Leo Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Rigid Fuel Lines & Oil Cooler Hoses |
> Thanks for the responses to my request for comment on rigid fuel lines
>
> One more thought on fire-sleeve. I have a hose that came insulated
> with my engine. The fire-sleeve ends were dipped in some sort of
> liquid rubber that seals the edge and keeps the white interior from
> fraying. A nice idea that I will use on the rest of my insulated
> lines.
The liquid rubber is not to prevent fraying but to stop flammable liquids
(oil etc) from wicking into the hose. If you don't do this you may as well
not bother with the fire-sleeve.
Leo Davies
leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pre purchase questions |
I can try to answer some of these. (my 2 cents worth).
On the metal cracking, the main area has been on the elevator and
rudder skins. This may be due somewhat to improper bending of the
trailing edge. I think the .020 skin would be better here (the
stock has been .016). I don't know what the QB has.
The controls are not that bad to build if you ever need to rebuild them.
Most of the ones that have cracked have just been stop drilled and some
have had RTV shot inside. Many go on with out any more problems.
That is what makes me think it is more of a construction problem.
The QB should be using the proper methods for building the parts.
Someone that go one a few weeks back said all the controls were
perfectly straight.
On the fuel tanks, I think if they are built properly, they should
not leak. There may be a few pinholes at the start but after that
they should be OK. You can always put some extra proseal or slosh
around any problem areas. Absolute worst case would be to open
them up with some access holes and repair and then close up the'
access holes (in the outer rib or at the rear baffle). Van has
shown this in the news letter.
The main problems on fuel tanks have been people that put in the
slosh (per the old builders manual) and many had it peel off inside
the tank. They now recommend not using the slosh. It can be used
along the seams (in my opionion) or if needed.
The 200 HP Lyc (IO360, angle valve engine) is about 3/4 inches
wider than a O360 180 HP parallel valve engine. I don't know, but
it should probably fit on the RV6 cowl. The folks that put them
in the RV4 had to rework their cowls.
The angle valve engine is about 25 pounds heavier than the parallel
valve engine. It has more cooling area on the fins so it will cool
better if you are in a hot climate. The bottom end is a little stronger
as the crank is larger diameter.
The RV6 can probably use some extra weight up front from everything
I have read on this list. The RV6 is known for being limitted on
how much baggage you can put in it (maybe as little as 30 pounds).
Adding a normal heavy starter (instead of the light weight starter)
can also help. You would be better with the IO360 to get the extra
HP instead of hauling around a heavier starter.
You may want the C/S prop also if you are doing mountain flying
so you can let the engine rev up to get the power out of it.
Herman RV4 flying
dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
> Hi all,
>
> I almost sent Van a check yesterday. It is a two month wait for a 6AQ!
>
> But I had a question or two...
>
> Can (I know that Van says no!) the 6A be flown with the sliding canopy open?
>
> How do you get out of a 6A if it flips on landing, esp emergency and the
> nosewheel hits a gopher hole?
>
> What kind of problems does the plane have over time? Especially, does the sheet
> metal crack? Or I suppose I should ask where since all aluminum aircraft crack.
> Wooden ones rot, plastic ones delaminate etc.
>
> When the fuel tanks *DO* begin to leak, what do you do?
>
> If it takes 1000 hours to do a Quick build, how much of that is riveting and
> sheetmetal work - that is not plumbing, wiring, upholstering, painting etc.
>
> Is the 200 hp Lyc too much power if used mainly for climbing out of mountain
> airports?
>
> (RV-6AQ Have wife's blessings, money, two car garage - just need some answers!)
>
> Hal Kempthorne
> Debonair N6134V (for sale in '98!)
> halk(at)netcom.com
> Santa Clara, CA.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Leak Testing Fuel Tanks |
> I'm just about to start the wings. Can I ask how many people have found
> leaks after doing a careful job of prosealing? This sounds like a more
> common problem than I first thought. Also, does anyone know the effects
of
> auto fuel on proseal? Is there an alternative to proseal that is more
> adaptable?
I didn't have any leaks at all. It seems that leaks are somewhat common, but
I think if you are careful you'll be okay. I just scuffed the flashing areas
well, then cleaned with white gas and didn't touch them after that. I was
fairly liberal when applying proseal as well.
I did notice in the new accessory catalog from Van's that they have something
called Fuel Tank Sealant that "replaces" Pro-Seal. I'm not sure what it is
though.
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
| Subject: | Pre purchase questions |
I would suggest getting and building the empennage while waiting for the
quickbuild.
The timing is perfect because it took me about 160 hours to build the
emp. with the
new pre-punched skins. And I'm definitely glad I have the experience of
building the
tail before putting a hole in the $19K quickbuild!
Oh, answers to your questions from my memory of past emails (check the
archive):
Can't be flown with the canopy open, some people carry a sharp knife or
blunt instrument
to crack the canopy in case of a flip, I've only heard of some control
surfaces having small
cracks which a stop drill halts, add a little more proseal to the
problem area, don't know yet
I'll tell you in a couple of years, and there are quite a few running
IO360's but general
consensus is that a normal 360 will give you PLENTY of climb and cruise
performance without
the headache of the extra cowl and plumbing work to fit the IO360,
especially when combined
with a constant speed prop.
Does that help?
--------------------- cut here
--------------------------------------------------------------
Mitch Faatz mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com San Jose, CA
RV-6AQME N727MF (reserved)
Finished with empennage, working on floor pans and seats
>----------
>From: sybase.com!halk(at)matronics.com[SMTP:sybase.com!halk(at)matronics.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 1996 11:06 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Pre purchase questions
>
>Hi all,
>
>I almost sent Van a check yesterday. It is a two month wait for a 6AQ!
>
>But I had a question or two...
>
>Can (I know that Van says no!) the 6A be flown with the sliding canopy open?
>
>How do you get out of a 6A if it flips on landing, esp emergency and the
>nosewheel hits a gopher hole?
>
>What kind of problems does the plane have over time? Especially, does the
>sheet
>metal crack? Or I suppose I should ask where since all aluminum aircraft
>crack.
>Wooden ones rot, plastic ones delaminate etc.
>
>When the fuel tanks *DO* begin to leak, what do you do?
>
>If it takes 1000 hours to do a Quick build, how much of that is riveting and
>sheetmetal work - that is not plumbing, wiring, upholstering, painting etc.
>
>Is the 200 hp Lyc too much power if used mainly for climbing out of mountain
>airports?
>
>(RV-6AQ Have wife's blessings, money, two car garage - just need some
>answers!)
>
>Hal Kempthorne
>Debonair N6134V (for sale in '98!)
>halk(at)netcom.com
>Santa Clara, CA.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Pre purchase questions |
>Hi all,
>
>I almost sent Van a check yesterday. It is a two month wait for a 6AQ!
Think about building a regular -6A empennage while you wait... I believe
this is a very cost-effective way to go for a QB. You get an emp. for $1100,
and a $2000 reduction in the price of the QB kit. You also get to learn a
bit on cheaper parts. And there's no waiting...
>But I had a question or two...
>How do you get out of a 6A if it flips on landing, esp emergency and the
>nosewheel hits a gopher hole?
As quickly as possible! ;-)
More seriously; I guess the real question is where the CG is when it's
flipped. Will it rest on the nose and front of the canopy, or canopy top and
VS top? It'll also be resting on one wingtip, so I'd hope there would be
room to squeeze out the canopy on the other side.
Frank.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
<< Wait a minute, isn't that a typing error right there to the left of the
word
variant. Yes it is - I believe the correct word to use there is *its*.
I guess none of us is above making a mistake!
Sorry, I couldn't resist my .02 worth...
>>
I love you, man
JS
bcg007(at)aol.coom
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: OMABP Flight |
<< However, if this conversion builds enough flight hours and proves itself I
may be in line for one. Lycont is going to be in real trouble if they don't
adapt...here are engines that can run unleaded fuel, run at stabilized temps
with no shock cooling problems, and be overhauled inexpensively.
In short, I liked it. >>
Great contribution. Is there any newletter or list for builders to stay
current on this engine? I'm sure leaning this way.
Jon Scholl
bcg007(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rigid Fuel Lines |
>but I don't reccomend the electric pump being in the cockpit or
>engine compartment if you burn auto gas.
>
>BA RV6A N85TX
>Bill;
why not in the cockpit if auto gas? If elec. pump not in cockpit nor engine
compartment, where did you put it?
I've got to stop now and use my spelling and grammar checker.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg) |
| Subject: | Do it yourself spars |
(folks sorry about posting on the list, but John asked if he needed a 4x gun,
would a 3x work? for riveting the spars. His thought like mine was a rivet
gun is a lot easier, and probably does a better job than a hammer. (it takes
a lot less time to use a rivet gun. Oh yeah, my reply kept getting bounced back)
From: dougb(at)november.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg)
Subject: Spars
Howdy John,
I asked some of my buds at the EAA chap for a 4x,I borrowed a 4X gun and reamers
from one of the guys. The reamers I used in the bolt holes after every thing
was riveted and not moving about. Worked well, the spar bolts are snug going in
but not too tight or loose. The 3X gun will work with high air pressure 100lbs
to 80 lbs or so. But even if you did buy a 4X you could sell it to the next
RV builder. And you did save $700 over all. I understand the flanges are
pre tapered? I used my bandsaw with metal cutting blade, but you can use a
hollow ground metal blade on a table saw too (watch for kickback).
Good luck let me know how it turns out.
Doug
ps I bought a new scotch bright wheel to polish the flanges, my other one had
grooves in it from deburring skins.
Doug Bloomberg
RV-6A (in the womb)
Denver, CO
dougb(at)mail.diac.com (home)
doug(at)boulder.vni.com (work)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg) |
| Subject: | Re: Rigid Fuel Lines |
At 9:56 AM 11/27/96, Scott Gesele wrote:
>>Check out the mounting of the gascolator that Eustace Bowhay and Jim Rowe
>>have in the latest VANS RVator. It is mounted inboard of the left wing and
>>outboard of the fuselage. They are the same guys with the amphib floats on
>>the RV6.
>>
>
...snip
>Scott Gesele N506RV
My bud Larry, who is probably the safest person I know when it comes to
flying and equipment maintenance. He has 16 or 17 thousand hrs. Much of it
in a Super cub at 100' AGL chasing predators. He has removed on his last
two RV-4s and on his new RV-6 the gascolator. His reason is, it's outdated
equipment; the fuel low point is the wing tank sump; if for some reason you have
a off airport landing and the main gear snaps off the gascolator is highly
subject to getting clobbered and flashing up; finally we tend to buy cheap
knockoffs of Cessna parts and he wouldn't trust the bowl retainer to staying
on during All flying conditions. Now he does use automtive in line fuel filters
one for each tank. This has the added advantage of deleteing a single
failure point of a clogged filter. And as I read in the RVator you will not
have a
gascolator drain valve stick open on you, or a possibility of vapor lock
due to a hot gascolator during a cross country fuel stop.
Oh yes my Bud is Larry Vetterman who many of you know.
Just food for thought.
Doug Bloomberg
RV-6A (in the womb)
Denver, CO
dougb(at)mail.diac.com (home)
doug(at)boulder.vni.com (work)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kiwi(at)jetstream.net (Kiwi) |
>RV4 Retractable is owned by
>OWNED BY BRYAN CARR, 25520 32 AVE
>ALDERGROVE B.C. CANADA V4W 1Y2 PHONE (604)856-8247
>BRYAN IS FINISHING AN RV6A PRESENTLY AND I UNDERSTAND HE HAS THE EMPENAGE
>FOR AN RV8. HE IS AN EXCELLENT BUILDER. HE MIGHT HAVE A LOT OF EXTRA TIME
>ON HIS HANDS SOON...... HE IS FIRST OFFICIER ON DC 10'S FOR CANADIAN
>AIRLINES. THAT RETRACT OF HIS IS ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS!
>
>KEN
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elon Ormsby <elon.o(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Auxiliary Fuel Tanks |
About a month ago (just before the AOPA convention) someone raised the
question of how to carry extra fuel. The requester suggested putting an
auxiliary tank in the back seat and was asking about precautions to
consider in adapting an add-in race car tank. I made a mental note of
the request, at the time, and since I was going to the AOPA convention I
thought I would look around to see if I could learn enough to make a
contribution to the list.
IMHO carrying extra fuel in the cockpit is not a good idea. In fact,
you will note that many aircraft carry fuel only in the wings.
Supposedly, if you have an emergency landing, you can fly between two
trees ripping the wings off, leaving the fuel tanks behind as you kiss
another tree. You may need orthodontia but at least the warm glow will
be behind you. That is a stereotypical scenario I have heard for many
years but all of the accident reports I have ever read never happen like
that. You be the judge on its merit.
So if you are going to carry fuel in the cockpit how to do it safely? I
have had a Harwood plastic fuel cell in my bracket race car for 16 years
(its been dormant for the last 5 years). I just went out and checked
and the blue foam is as good as when I bought it. Admittedly, the tank
has held fuel only on race day. All other times it has been dry. Some
people reported a problem with the internal foam but since mine is good
my application may not be a true long term, fuel-soak test. Be cautious
about the internal flame-suppressant foams.
However, after talking to some fuel cell vendors I dont feel the race
car tanks are a good way to go. I got a real education at AOPA by not
only talking to the vendors but actually seeing the materials and
quality of aviation fuel cells. First, Aviation Fuel Cells (AFCs) are
certified to be compatible with av gas. I have never seen such an
endorsement for race car tanks. AFCs are made as replacements for
certified aircraft that use them (e.g. C-182). There is no guessing
about compatibility. There are hundreds of sizes, shapes and
capacities. Everything from a Cessna 411 to a Bell 222 helicopter.
Ferry pilots quite often buy a stock shape listed among the hundreds of
different aircraft models and adapt it to their needs saving the cost of
a "custom" fabrication. Sometimes they are called "locker" tanks. Race
car selection is very limited compared to the contortions you can get
for aircraft.
What I did learn is that no AFC is "certified" for auto gas. What I was
told was the aniline content of auto gas was poison for AFC materials
and the aniline content has increased in later years. There is a wide
range in quality, cost and construction of fuel cells. Most are two ply
construction. However, Curt Hartwig indicates his cells are three ply
construction and even though they are not placarded for auto gas he says
you can certainly use it. He warns about using auto gas in the two ply
cells. In fact, one brand I saw was labeled "Not for Automotive Fuels".
Curt does not put that label on his. One of the worse things you can do
to an AFC is to store it dry. It should either have fuel in it or you
should liberally oil down the entire inside. I saw warranties for 3 and
5 year lives, nothing longer.
Enclosing the AFC in a light weight aluminum enclosure would likely give
best protection. The sheet metal box will give the cell stiffness,
provide attach points, and prevent minor penetrations. If it did get
moderately crushed in an accident the cell material would maintain its
integrity and not leak. You would be surprised at the toughness of the
cell material. If the tank was partially full of fuel you could drive a
nail through the aluminum box and the cell material is so tough it would
only deflect and not get punctured. Finally, read the article on Dr.
Dean Halls RV-4 in Sport aviation May 1994. He put a 4 gallon reserve
fuel tank behind the firewall. He has an on-board Halon fire
suppression system and many other goodies. If you have fuel in the
cockpit it may be wise to invest in a robust fire suppression system as
used in race cars. BTW, Halon is no longer available because it is an
ozone eater.
No e-mail for these references but there are "800" numbers and for our
off-shore friends a standard phone number.
Kurt C. Hartwig
Aircraft Fuel Cell Repair
300 Airport Road
Eagle River, WI 54521
800/437-8732
fax 715/479-6344
FAA Repair Station No. NL5R071N
Charles L. Lanza
A/C Fuel Cells Worldwide, Inc.
6075 e. Shelby Drive
Memphis, TN 38141
901/794-4488
800/743-0007
fax 800/743-008
FAA Repair Station NO. WUDRO53L
Larry Shultz
AvCells, Inc
2530 Tarpley, #500
Carrollton, TX 75006
214/416-8875
fax 214/416-0940
800/288-1505
Repair Station No. IGTR154L
Sorry, about the length - I hope this is considered a contribution to
our knowledge base.
Elon,
elon.o(at)worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillAkin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pre purchase questions |
Hal:
I believe I read somewhere Van says you can open the canopy in emergencies
under 80 MPH.
If you want to fly where there are gopher holes, get a Maule with big wheels
:-).
If you seal the tanks properly the first time, you can let your (or theirs)
heirs worry about leaks. Tanks are removable and accessable from the rear
baffle by cutting holes and replacing with cover plates.
If you can do it in 1000 hours, the vast majority of the work will be other
than airframe metal work.
A 180 hp Lyc. is plenty of power for mountain flying.
Hell!! Hal if you got you wife's permission and the money, you got the tough
part licked. :-) Send Van an order, start thinkin about you panel and a paint
scheme, and get after it and you'll be glad you did.
Good Luck!
Bill Akin
RV6A N85TX
150 HP 100 hrs Rocky Mountain Time
________________________________________________________________________________
The father died a year or two ago and the son inherited the business. I
bought lots of tools from his father, but have not been back since he died.
He had some pretty well used stuff and some pretty good stuff. Like in any
used tool purchase, "Let the buyer beware". I've always had the best of luck
buying my tools from Avery! Spend a little more for quality. Don't be cheap,
for Christ's sake, when you build these magnificent birds! Did I spell
everthing rite? Thanks. Mal rvbildr(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RodWoodard(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Auxiliary Fuel Tanks |
>About a month ago (just before the AOPA convention) someone raised the
>question of how to carry extra fuel. The requester suggested putting an
>auxiliary tank in the back seat and was asking about precautions to
>only deflect and not get punctured. Finally, read the article on Dr.
>Dean Halls RV-4 in Sport aviation May 1994. He put a 4 gallon reserve
>fuel tank behind the firewall. He has an on-board Halon fire
>suppression system and many other goodies. If you have fuel in the
Dean still doesn't have his fuselage fuel tank installed. Last time I saw it
(6 weeks ago), he was going to send it back to his welder to have the shape
modified to fit. Dean isn't on the list, but can be reached by e-mail at
deandoc(at)verinet.com
One thing I've been watching re: auxiliary fuel is tip tanks. When Jon
Johanson passed through the area I noticed that he had the fiberglass tips
filled with fuel with a simple gravity feed to the main tanks. He said the
only thing you really had to worry about was getting a good seal for the main
tanks because they end up slightly pressurized from the gravity flow of the
tip tanks. Jon said that there's some guy working on making the tips and all
the hardware available as a kit for RV's. He also reminded us that in
Australia, there is no such thing as an experimental classification, per se.
Any mods he did to his airplane had to pass muster with the Australian
authorities... including the tip tanks. He said he's flight tested in the
worst case scenerio of full fuel on one side and none on the other with no
unsafe/uncontrollable results. Dean Hall might also have info on the tip
tanks through Mr. Johanson.
Best regards and Happy Turkey Day.
Rod Woodard (sorry, I left my spell checker at home)
RodWoodard(at)aol.com
RV-8, Loveland, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillAkin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rigid Fuel Lines |
Sorry John!
I have my fuel system set up as the plans (unless revised since I built) show
with a facet pump in the cockpit on the pilot side in series with the engine
pump. I removed the gascolator from the firewall because of vapor lock
problems and installed a filter inside the cockpit at each tank line between
the tank and fuel valve. This solved the vapor lock probloem. I even had the
problem using Avgas to some extent on a hot day when I stopped in somewhere
for a few minutes (ie refueling) and took off again.
I am concerned about the in series set up of the aux pump and engine pump and
am considering a parrallel system (ie piper) and would like the pump in the
engine compartment out of the cockpit but since I use auto fuel, I worry
about the problem of heat that I experienced with the gascolator. Martin
Sutter installed his parallel with an aircraft pump in the engine compartment
and has had no problems at all, but he uses avgas in his 180. Obviously,
you've got to put the pump one place or the other and if I make the change,
I'll probably leave it in the cockpit. Hell! its's working great as it is so
I guess I should leave it alone, but I am concerned about how effective the
Facet electric pump will be if the engine pump quits. Will I be pumping fuel
overboard with the electric pump or will it go through the engine pump to the
engne? I suppose it depends on whether one or both of the diaphrams in the
engine pump fail. If anybody knows how this works, let us know. I have
concerns about check valves in a parallel system too. Is there an expert on
this out there?
BA RV6A N85TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OMABP Flight |
>
><< However, if this conversion builds enough flight hours and proves itself I
>
>
>Great contribution. Is there any newletter or list for builders to stay
>current on this engine? I'm sure leaning this way.
>
>Jon Scholl
>bcg007(at)aol.com
>
>
Bill was posting each flight test result on the list, but several unfriendly
responses over his efforts have seemingly halted that.
He has, however, been posting his progress on the rec.aviation.homebuilt
usenet newsgroup so you might want to check there. I plan on visiting the
project personally as often as I can and will post new information (probably
via my web page with the OMABP's permission).
Happy Thanksgiving to all!
Rob Acker / RV-6Q / N164RA / Southern California
E-mail: r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com
RV-6Q Project: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Leak Testing Fuel Tanks |
>I'm just about to start the wings. Can I ask how many people have found
>leaks after doing a careful job of prosealing? This sounds like a more
>common problem than I first thought. Also, does anyone know the effects of
>auto fuel on proseal? Is there an alternative to proseal that is more
>adaptable?
I am not sure what ProSeal is being used on the RV now. The last I saw was
a 2-part mix. Bud Nelson, a retired Boeing engineer and one of the design
engineers on the GlaStar is building a wet wing on his personal airplane.
(The GlaStar has welded aluminum tanks). He worked with ProSeal on a mix
that would hold up top the various additives and esters in MoGas (which
will probably eventually find there way into AvGas as soon as big brother
decides to further subsidize ADM or "lower emissions"). They came up with a
3-part mix which Bud used to seal his spars and will seal the rest of the
wet portion of his wing if he has not already finished. I have not talked
to him lately but will be in touch. I also intend to build a wet wing, but
have not decided how to seal the spars, but will use the three part mix to
seal the skins. Bud has offerred specs on the ProSeal butI have not asked
for it yet. If anyone is interested I will post the specs when I get them,
but the must be a sackful of RVs flying on MoGas with first hand knowledge
of the current mix.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pre purchase questions |
> I almost sent Van a check yesterday. It is a two month wait for a 6AQ!
Yes, but it will likely only get longer. I was at the factory about a month
ago and they had at least 20 of them there being inspected!
> Can (I know that Van says no!) the 6A be flown with the sliding canopy
open?
I have talked to two different people that say it works okay as long as you
keep the speed around 120 or below. Keeping the RV below 120 is a task all
by itself. I don't think I'd want to try it.
> How do you get out of a 6A if it flips on landing, esp emergency and the
> nosewheel hits a gopher hole?
Some people carry a small axe, or heavy object to break the canopy if it
doesn't break by itself.
> When the fuel tanks *DO* begin to leak, what do you do?
If the tanks are built properly, and they don't leak in the beginning, they
probably won't leak ever. If they do, it would most likely be around a
gasket or screw head and easy enough to seal.
> If it takes 1000 hours to do a Quick build, how much of that is riveting
and
> sheetmetal work - that is not plumbing, wiring, upholstering, painting
etc.
I would think 600-800 hours.
> Is the 200 hp Lyc too much power if used mainly for climbing out of
mountain
> airports?
A lot of people use it. You can always pull the throttle back.
> (RV-6AQ Have wife's blessings, money, two car garage - just need some
> answers!)
Sounds like you have the major hurdles accomplished, jump in!
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Auxiliary Fuel Tanks |
Thanks Elon!
I was the one who posted the idea about using automotive race fuel cells
as aux tanks in the cockpit (in the back seat of a -4) some time back. I
just finished reading your post. I don't have nearly the faith in
aviation fuel cells that the manufacturers of such seem to. After
working on King Airs, Barons, Bell Helicopters, etc. as an A&P I've
gotten to loathe fuel cells because I've changed a few due to leaks and
man are the things a b*tch! Additionally they are a pain to maintain
-keep 'em full, keep 'em away from ozone, NEVER use autogas (which is
one of my personal success stories -works great & cheap flying!), etc,
etc. And after all this they are expensive. Now if I was convinced this
was the answer, price would not be put before safety -but I don't like
'em.
Also... Do yo really think the wings of an RV-4 are going to shear off
neatly if the plane is run between two trees? That cantilevered wing
with the massive centersection splice under the pilot's butt? Not a
chance. Certainly on a strut-braced Cessna where there is not a beefy
spar carry through. But with the RV's I see most of the aft fuse leaving
with the wings.
This has not been a flame. I appreciate the input. I'm still thinking
about doing this mod. And the more I think, the better I like the idea.
Thanks!
Scott
N4ZW
Elon Ormsby wrote:
>
> About a month ago (just before the AOPA convention) someone raised the
> question of how to carry extra fuel. The requester suggested putting an
> auxiliary tank in the back seat and was asking about precautions to
> consider in adapting an add-in race car tank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tool supliers |
> The 2 best are Cleaveland and Avery. Most listers know about Avery (good
> source) but many are unfarmiliar with Cleaveland.
> You will NOT get a bad tool from Cleaveland everything they sell is
> quality!!!
I wondered when someone was going to mention Cleaveland. The Lauritsens
run a top-notch company and sell top-notch tools. They were the ones
that INVENTED the 'spring-back' type dimple die when they built their
OSH award winning RV-4. Now everyone sells this type of die (but
Cleaveland still makes the best ones!) Very fair people to deal with,
and they've been on the RV scene much longer than many of the
self-proclaimed experts around.
I have bought from just about everybody over the years. ATS definitely
gets a two thumbs down and the rasberries.
Scott
N4ZW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jac Mahler <jax(at)brett.reno.nv.us> |
| Subject: | Re: tool supliers |
> I have bought from just about everybody over the years. ATS definitely
> gets a two thumbs down and the rasberries.
>
> Scott
> N4ZW
Scott, I concur with your analysis of ATS, I also have had little luck
with their products. Another is US. Industrial, I purchased a rivet gun
kit from them, and was pleased with it, but future purchases all had to
be returned due to poor quality, and inability to do the job expected.
I will never attempt them again. As for AVERY and CLEAVELAND they are
the only companies I now do business with. Some of the products may be
more expensive, but as you said, you get what you pay for.
Jax RV-6A building wings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Mayer <72652.670(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | RE: Speeling Eroors. |
It seems to me that some of you people spend too much time correcting
spelling and not enough being helpful.
It also seems to me that we have the tail wagging the dog here:
The archives are there to help us, not the other way around. If the
search engine can't find something because it's not spelled correctly,
there are plenty of other replys that WILL help.
Check the archives for all the other threads that occurred because
someone had to do battle because of someone's repeat questions about
primer, riveting, tool selection, andonandonandon...
I usually lurk because when I have nothing to say, I say nothing.
try it.
bye
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
George Orndorff made mention during riveting & charm school of the
following:
They have a large squeezer which is rented just for your purpose; apparently
it is sent with a mailing label and you forward it to the next man...call
him or Avery for details...john lucas
>to: Doug Bloomberg
>
>
>Doug,
>You discussed setting the wing spar rivets with a 3X or 4X gun and the
>Avery tool. That seems like a MUCH better idea than swinging a hammer.
>Do you know if it can be done ( really ) with a 3X gun? If not, does
>anybody know where one could obtain a bigger gun for a day?
>
>thanks
>John Walsh(at)cpeedy.enet.dec.com ( hoping he spelled everything write)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stephen Soule <ssoule(at)vbimail.champlain.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel tank/spar screw holes |
How do I de-burr the three most inboard #19 screw holes in the wing spar
flange? These are the holes that are the closest to the "meat" of the
spar reinforcement, the ones for which the plans call out grinding the
platenuts. How have the rest of the listers done it?
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JHTH " <JHTH(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | hand vs pneumatic rivet squeezer |
I have recently ordered an RV-8 tail kit & am currently collecting tools. I
plan on using a pneumatic rivet squeezer as much as possible. Is it still
necessary/advisable to purchase a hand squeezer as well?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: hand vs pneumatic rivet squeezer |
At 04:43 PM 11/29/96 UT, you wrote:
>I have recently ordered an RV-8 tail kit & am currently collecting tools. I
>plan on using a pneumatic rivet squeezer as much as possible. Is it still
>necessary/advisable to purchase a hand squeezer as well?
Dear ?????,
I owned a pneumatic squeezer only when I built my RV-6 and got along fine.
I had tried a friends tatco years ago and did not like it. Now, I have
access to an Avery manual squeezer and of the hand squeezers I've seen, this
is a nice one. I've used the manual squeezer on several occasions for
dimpling a couple of holes or setting one or two rivets but for "heavy duty"
operation, I use the pneumatic.
If you can swing it dollar wise, the hand squeezer is a nice addition to
your tool arsenal but you don't have to have it to build a RV.
I'm saving my money for a Souix 1/4" 3,600 rpm drill. Another "not
necessary, but nice" tool item.
Bob Skinner RV-6 350 hours BSkinner(at)krvn.com
***Please sign your name and put your E-mail address at the end of your
post. It is impossible to respond privately when we don't know your E-mail
address and it's nice to know who we're responding to.***
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tool supliers |
>> The 2 best are Cleaveland and Avery. Most listers know about Avery (good
>> source) but many are unfarmiliar with Cleaveland.
>> You will NOT get a bad tool from Cleaveland everything they sell is
>> quality!!!
>
>I wondered when someone was going to mention Cleaveland. The Lauritsens
>run a top-notch company and sell top-notch tools. They were the ones
>that INVENTED the 'spring-back' type dimple die when they built their
>OSH award winning RV-4. Now everyone sells this type of die (but
>Cleaveland still makes the best ones!) Very fair people to deal with,
>and they've been on the RV scene much longer than many of the
>self-proclaimed experts around.
>
>I have bought from just about everybody over the years. ATS definitely
>gets a two thumbs down and the rasberries.
>
>Scott
>N4ZW
Yeah verily. A strong second.
Buz has a NC lathe and turns his own dies. All the other suppliers are job
shopped and quality varies.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MiDiBu <midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: hand vs pneumatic rivet squeezer |
At 04:43 PM 11/29/96 UT, you wrote:
>I have recently ordered an RV-8 tail kit & am currently collecting tools. I
>plan on using a pneumatic rivet squeezer as much as possible. Is it still
>necessary/advisable to purchase a hand squeezer as well?
>
Good post and question. I'm only a little bit ahead of you. I've got the
empennage kit(empannage, empinage, emapnage, ???, I'm an engineer and can't
spell without a spell-checker), I'll just call it the tail kit. Anyhow,
vis-a-vis (How's that for academic phrasing?) the squeezer. I'm asking the
same thing. I've built the jig and I'm waiting on the tools that I ordered.
I did not order a squeezer because I'm too far into the future of Christmas
presents with the money that I've just spent to expect a pneumatic squeezer
in the hanging Christmas sock (and for the humor impaired, I never use
smileys!).
One comment, though, on your post. I would like to have sent this via
simple E-mail rather than posting it back to the group. You didn't leave an
E-mail address that I could recognize. It may have been there, embedded in the
From: "JHTH " <msn.com!JHTH(at)matronics.com> in the group posting. Maybe I
could figure it out, maybe not. It just seems to me that it would be better
if you would put a simple E-mail address after the letter (or
before/during/whatever).
We are in the same boat at this stage. I have found, in my experiences,
that it is a whole lot easier to talk to someone who is in the same stage of
building a system. There are no stupid questions. There is no inhibition
from showing how I messed up a part. There is no embarassment in saying
that "I just don't know!".
Further, one does not need to post their name or physical address. I use
MiDiBu as the title on my mail header because it is a composite of me, my
wife, and our dog's names. I plan to use it as a company name in a few
years. It's not a big deal, but I feel comfortable with it. And if I get
any really bad flack from the joint use account, I can always blame it on
the dog.
I look forward to sharing our experiences.
Mike Weller RV 80187 (under construction)
midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com (preferred) or mike.weller(at)msfc.nasa.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JHTH " <JHTH(at)msn.com> |
Sorry about the lapse in protocol on my question regarding the pneumatic rivet
squeezer.
jhth(at)msn.com
John Hall
Wichita, KS
RV-8 tail kit on order
________________________________________________________________________________
Listers
Has anyone put the gascolator inside the cockpit between the boost pump
and the fire wall.
Im no A&P but I cannot see why this would not work.
CRAIG HIERS
RV-4 N143CH
The planes almost done and I still do not have a motor.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kiwi(at)jetstream.net (Kiwi) |
| Subject: | Spar Press plans |
Due to the numerous requests that I have had Larry Hoatson scan the plans
and p[lace them on the RV listing here on E-Mail so if you have trouble
retrieving them give me a call and I will fax if I have to.
Barry
RV6 R Wing/Tail complete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 fwd baggage hold |
I had my EAA tech counselor over today for his first peek at my project...
I'm at the stage of endless fiberglassing of the gear leg fairings and soon
to hang the engine mount. He had a question about the lack of utilized space
between the firewall and the F-688 sub-panel. The discussion arose from our
mutual observation that aft CG was often encountered with the O-320/wooden
prop equipped -6A's. "If I were designing this airplane," he began (and Bob
has designed and marketed his own plans-built plane, the Barrows Bearhawk) "I
would utilize this space up front for a small luggage hold. Look at all
this wasted space above the rudder pedals between the firewall and the
panel!" As he spoke I could envision what he meant. I pictured a nice
11"x18"x13" locker with a hinged top door opening in front of the canopy,
leaking rainwater into the bottom where a drain tube would sump it overboard
someplace inconspicuous. I think it just might work. Maybe you could keep
tools and wheel chocks in there or something- keep the load constant so that
W&B could be calculated easier. Probably no harder to carry out than wingtip
lockers, and adds weight capacity forward where we need it.
Yep, the Landoll harmonic balancer will help the CG situation out. If
Bingelis likes it on his -6, I guess that's good enough for me. But what do
you fellas think? Ever see a -6A with a fwd cargo hold? The RV-8 sports
one, I noticed. Probably a much bigger one!
If no one else wants to try this, I might be willing to be a pioneer and see
how the installation works out.
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 fwd baggage hold |
But what do
>you fellas think? Ever see a -6A with a fwd cargo hold? The RV-8 sports
>one, I noticed. Probably a much bigger one!
>
>If no one else wants to try this, I might be willing to be a pioneer and see
>how the installation works out.
>
>Bill Boyd
>SportAV8R(at)aol.com
>
>
Actually, a couple of the people here in the Seattle area have done
something like this. Since no one wants to crawl under the panel to work on
the battery or brake system they have installed an access panel in the top
of the fuselage. There's no reason that you couldn't have a baggage
compartment, too.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
>Listers
>
>Has anyone put the gascolator inside the cockpit between the boost pump
>and the fire wall.
>Im no A&P but I cannot see why this would not work.
>
>
>CRAIG HIERS
>RV-4 N143CH
>The planes almost done and I still do not have a motor.
>
>
Why won't it work? Well, I'm sure it would work just fine with a few minor
problems; where would the gas go when you drain the gascolator? If you had
a hole in the floor for the fuel drain that might be ok but if the gasket in
the gascolator were to leak then that fuel would be inside the cockpit.
Personally, I have a gascolator on my RV but I think the poster that
advocated deleting the gascolator from the aircraft had the right idea. If
there is any water in the fuel you'll drain it when you drain the fuel
tanks. If you have to have a gascolator then place it in the wing root;
you'll need two of them, one for each tank.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcon(at)ix.netcom.com (Robert M. Cornacchia ) |
| Subject: | U.S. Aviator Mag. e-mail address |
About a month ago there was conversation on this page about
U.S.Aviatior magazine. I am in need of their e-mail address.
Thanks,
Bob Cornacchia
RV6 working on wings
bcon(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6 fwd baggage hold |
Bill,
I owned and flew a -6A with 0-320 and wooden prop for over 350 hrs and never
had a c.g. problem, even over gross with passengers and baggage. I've also
talked to many -6A owners and have never heard anyone mention a problem with
c. g. loading on this model. The RV-6 is somewhat more subject to this.
I have seen a -6A (slider canopy) with beautifully crafted access doors
installed in the forward top fuselage area. I don't recall any structure for
storage being installed, but the aircraft wasn't complete. It has since been
sold, so I don't know who owns it now. If the strucural integrity isn't
compromised, it should be okay, but I wouldn't do it unless I had a -6 that
needed a load moved or a slider canopy that needed panel access from the rear.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6 fwd baggage hold |
Bill,
I owned and flew a -6A, 0-320, wood prop, for over 350 hours and never
experienced an aft c. g. problem, even over grossed with passengers and
baggage. I have also talked to many other -6A owners and have never heard any
of them relate a problem with c. g.! I am aware that the -6 is more apt to
encounter this, depending on equipment, location, etc.
I have seen a -6A (slider canopy) with front upper fuselage access doors which
were beautifully crafted. I don't recall any structure for baggage. Since
that area has a compound curved surface, modification is more than simple and
sealing it from leaks is a challenge, I'm sure. Unless I had a -6 with
definite c.g. problems and/or a slider canopy and just had to have rear panel
access, I would look long and hard before doing it, as I would with any change
to the basic structure. Even the smallest thing can eat up a lot of time,
cost more money and possibly compromise the integrity of the aircraft.
Les Williams
lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com
QB -6A w/tip-up canopy on order since June 96/empennage complete
RV-6A #20299 completed Apr 92, sold
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 fwd baggage hold |
les williams wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> I owned and flew a -6A with 0-320 and wooden prop for over 350 hrs and never
> had a c.g. problem, even over gross with passengers and baggage. I've also
> talked to many -6A owners and have never heard anyone mention a problem with
> c. g. loading on this model. The RV-6 is somewhat more subject to this.
>
I would like to add to what Les wrote, I flew my RV-6 the first
300hrs with a O-320 and a wood prop and did not experience any of the
cg problems that I keep hearing people talk about. If I had it full
of fuel and the baggage compartment full it would get a little more
pitch sensative as fuel burned off but this is normal. I now have
a O-360 with the twelve pound harmonic dampner installed and can't
tell a bit of difference in the way it handles, still gets pitch
sensative as fuel is burned if baggage compartment is loaded
heavy. My personal feeling is you will do more to hurt the
performance of your aircraft by adding weight with the structure
it would take add forward baggage and access doors.
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com (new address)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
>Listers
>
>Has anyone put the gascolator inside the cockpit between the boost pump
>and the fire wall.
>Im no A&P but I cannot see why this would not work.
>
>
>CRAIG HIERS
>RV-4 N143CH
>The planes almost done and I still do not have a motor.
>
Craig
I put my gascolator in the well with the front control stick. I made a
little door in the floor to service it and the drain extends through the
floor. It has worked very well and is away from the heat and vibration of
the firewall.
Tom Martin
fairlea(at)execulink.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spar Press plans |
>Due to the numerous requests that I have had Larry Hoatson scan the plans
>and p[lace them on the RV listing here on E-Mail so if you have trouble
>retrieving them give me a call and I will fax if I have to.
>
>Barry
>RV6 R Wing/Tail complete
>
>
Hi Barry
This is my fax number
519-631-3358
Thank-you
fairlea(at)execulink.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Dixon <sdixon(at)laker.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tool supliers |
It has been said that a smart man learns from his mistakes but a wise
man learns from the mistakes of others.
It sounds like ATS is a big mistake. Avery will get my order first thing
Monday morning.
Thanks to all that responded.
Steve Dixon
sdixon(at)laker.net
Still waiting on my RV-8 tail (and cleaning out the garage)
John Top wrote:
>
> >> The 2 best are Cleaveland and Avery. Most listers know about Avery (good
> >> source) but many are unfarmiliar with Cleaveland.
> >> You will NOT get a bad tool from Cleaveland everything they sell is
> >> quality!!!
> >
> >I wondered when someone was going to mention Cleaveland. The Lauritsens
> >run a top-notch company and sell top-notch tools. They were the ones
> >that INVENTED the 'spring-back' type dimple die when they built their
> >OSH award winning RV-4. Now everyone sells this type of die (but
> >Cleaveland still makes the best ones!) Very fair people to deal with,
> >and they've been on the RV scene much longer than many of the
> >self-proclaimed experts around.
> >
> >I have bought from just about everybody over the years. ATS definitely
> >gets a two thumbs down and the rasberries.
> >
> >Scott
> >N4ZW
>
> Yeah verily. A strong second.
> Buz has a NC lathe and turns his own dies. All the other suppliers are job
> shopped and quality varies.
>
> John Top
> Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
>Listers
>
>Has anyone put the gascolator inside the cockpit between the boost pump
>and the fire wall.
>Im no A&P but I cannot see why this would not work.
>
>
>CRAIG HIERS
>RV-4 N143CH
>The planes almost done and I still do not have a motor.
Craig, I'd advise against doing this. Think of how many more "failure
points" you would be adding to the cockpit: In port, out port and primer
fitting and their attendant fittings and connections (also known as
"possible leak source.) Also, the bowl gasket. It would also be difficult
to service in this location. In this same vein, I used an electric primer
on my six to eleminate two copper lines and their associated fittings and
the "O" rings of the primer. I also used electric engine gauges to
eleminate an oil and fuel pressure line in the cockpit. So, the only lines
that I have in the cockpit are from the left and right tanks to the selector
valve and a line from the selector to the firewall mounted gascolator.
I do like the idea presented by several builders of using filters in place
of the gascolator. I don't think much of the clear, plastic case filters.
I'd prefer a filter with AN fittings and a metal case. There was an article
in Sport Aviation several years ago by Lyle Powell, a Glasair builder, who
used metal canister filter on the firewall. He gave the part number, etc.
and I looked into it but could not obtain the filter locally. I believe
that the case was heavy enough that he was able to install a quick drain.
As I remember, it was a fairly large filter, not small like the in line
filters discussed on the list. If anyone is interested in this, E-mail me
off-list and I'll try to find the issue of SA that this was in.
Bob Skinner RV-6 350 hours BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | The Smiths <kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com> |
So far this is speculative masonry to me, so forgive me if I type
something dumb. {Think what you want if it's misspellled}
The options for riveting the main spars and (my perceived) merits of each
are listed below. I haven't decided which course to follow. I bought a
steel block machined to accept die sets in the right size for the rivets,
so backing is "solved" for several options, at least for me. Thanks to
the Fredrick bunch and the RV forum of three years ago.
1. Hammer. ADV: Fast. Easy learning curve advertised. Paul
McReynolds recommends it. No tooling cost. Set up on the floor.
DISADV: Must drive straight. I've never tried it...
Q. What is the backing? Hold a rivet die in back or
drive with a die with the rivet (shop head) formed against a flat
backing plate?
2. Using the avery tool and a rivet gun. ADV: Tooling already bought.
Driving straight is a given.
DISADV: Need one spar length to one side, and 1/2 spar length to
other (may require moving the mounted tool).
Q. Is some mass required under the tool?
3. Driving with gun. ADV: Tooling on hand.
DISADV: Drive straight! Big rivets. Need adequate backing.
4. Squeezer. ADV: Control. Power.
DISADV: Tool cost (or borrow one)
Comments welcomed.
Ken Smith
Empanage RV6
kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | OMABP Vortec V-6 |
I forgot to post some information regarding my flight in the OMABP Chevy
Vortec V6 powered RV-6.
The 1100-1300 fpm ROC was at 25" of MP (about 80% power).
Rob Acker / RV-6Q / N164RA / Southern California
E-mail: r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com
RV-6Q Project: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker
(last updated 11/29/96)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GHLX34A(at)prodigy.com (MR GEORGE T KILISHEK) |
| Subject: | Fuel sending units/tank ribs |
I just finished riveting the reinforcing rings and plate nuts to the
inside of the inner tank ribs when I noticed that the location of the
holes I'd drilled in the rib will leave the fuel sending unit
slightly cocked (actually, about 15 degrees).
I'm planning to use the SW units from Vans catalog.
Do these sending units have to be mounted exactly vertically, or can
they be adjusted, electrically or otherwise, to compensate for a
dummy's mistake?
George Kilishek
RV8 #80006
Finished preparing wing ribs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Gascolators, was Rigid Fuel Lines |
>To catch any dirt or particals in the fuel system, I would use a see-through
>filter between the fuel selector and the low-pressure electric fuel pump. In
>my mind this is a much less complicated, and more reliable fuel system.
>
>The gascolator is tractor tech that should be left behind.
>
Exactly what I have been thinking. I have a gascolator installed but am
thinking of taking it out and installing in-line filters. But: perhaps
installing one between each of the tanks and the fuel selector in case
something from one tank clogs the line: it will only involve one filter and
one line rather than the whole system (like a gascolator or single filter
would). If sloshing compound lets loose, it will probably involve only one
tank. In the -4 it would be easy to install filters under the floorboards
just ahead of the spar and fit a small plexiglass window or sliding aluminum
door to inspect them during preflight.
Anyone else out there junking the gascolator? I know this is in the
archives but much has been built since then.
Michael
RV-4 232 SQ
mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: tool supliers |
>I have bought from just about everybody over the years. ATS definitely
>gets a two thumbs down and the rasberries.
I concur. Unless ATS has changed EVERYTHING in the past several years,
avoid them at all costs (the "all costs" is replacing all the tools they
sell with good ones). They still advertise their "Beginner Kitbuilder Kit"
or whatever they call it and it aggrivates me every time I see it as there
are still some unsuspecting builders out there that will jump in (like I
did...didn't have The List in those days) and buy their tools. I'm sure
it's the only way they are still in business. "The only expensive tool is a
cheap one."
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: COZY: cozy TWIN |
>>We are currently in the finishing process of a MK-IV (no. 308). We
>>have decided to make it a twin by installing two SUZUKI 1600cc, 100HP,
>>4 cylinder in line engines. The configuration is: dual, 2:1 belt driven
>>independent propellers in a coaxial form.
>>
WOW!!! I was just mumbling about how hard my drop floors were to finally
get just right. I wish this was on a web page with pictures. Long live the
adventurous....like retracting an RV gear, for example...........
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Speeling Eroors. |
>I usually lurk because when I have nothing to say, I say nothing.
>try it.
Right here, next to my megabite computer I have a very well worn copy of the
Webster's Instant Word Guide. Works as well as a SpellChecker, just a
little slower, that's all. Mr. Campana taught me to type when I was in the
7th grade, never knowing how much I would use it, but my fingers still don't
find all the keys correctly. Some days I will stare at a word I just typed
and suddenly it doesn't look like a real word.
Points well taken in not being able to find things in the archives, but
let's DROP this line, shall we? Take out frustrations pounding some AN-4
rivets instead.
"Isabel did not speak till we reached the drugstore, and I, having nothing
to say, said nothing." W. Somerset Maugham
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
"Anne B. Hiers" <CRAIG-RV-4.@worldnet.att.net> asked:
>Has anyone put the gascolator inside the cockpit between the boost pump
>and the fire wall.
>Im no A&P but I cannot see why this would not work.
A good friend and I were discussing this just two days ago. He is an A&P
and a homebuilder. There are pros and cons to putting the gascolator on
either side of the firewall. If it's aft of the firewall, you end up with
gas in the cockpit if it leaks. On the other hand, if it's fwd of the
firewall, you end up with gas in the engine compartment if it leaks. (it's
my conention that a leak in the cockpit would be detected much quicker.)
Some of us with with fuel-injected engines are hesitant to put the
gascolator downstream of the boost pump. At 30 psi, you can pump a lot of
fuel overboard quickly if the gascolator leaks. Neither of use feels
comfortable presurizing a gascolator to 30 psi, either.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
Trimming the canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: tool supliers |
>It has been said that a smart man learns from his mistakes but a wise
>man learns from the mistakes of others.
>
>It sounds like ATS is a big mistake. Avery will get my order first thing
>Monday morning.
>
>Thanks to all that responded.
>
>Steve Dixon
>sdixon(at)laker.net
>Still waiting on my RV-8 tail (and cleaning out the garage)
>
I was at a Tech Counselor visit yesterday and the builder asked me to look
at his clecoe pliers. Seemed that they wouldn't hold the 3/32" clecoes very
well. They would twist sideways and sometimes the clecoe would shoot out of
the pliers. When he was demonstrating them for me a clecoe popped out of
the pliers and bounced off the fabric side of his Kitfox.
Upon checking them out the stamp 'ATS' was prominent on the side of the
handle. The 'cup' for the clecoe was only partially there and there was no
support for the clecoe on the right side of the pliers.
I mentioned to him that he had two choices; either make a trip to Boeing
Surplus (hoping they had some in stock on that day) or call Avery. He told
me that he'd be calling Avery on Monday.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Haan <bobh(at)cdac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: hand vs pneumatic rivet squeezer |
At 04:43 PM 11/29/96 UT, you wrote:
>I have recently ordered an RV-8 tail kit & am currently collecting tools. I
>plan on using a pneumatic rivet squeezer as much as possible. Is it still
>necessary/advisable to purchase a hand squeezer as well?
I have built the RV6 tail, wings and the fuselage bulkheads using only the
pneumatic squeezer. I have the hand squeezer, Avery No. 9415, but never use
it.
The most useful yoke is the Longeron Yoke, Avery No. 7755. I wish I had
had it from day one. Due to its name, I thought it was only useful when
you got to the fuselage. I also have a standard 3 inch, Avery No. 7730,
and a 4 inch with no hole, Avery No. 7760.
Bob Haan
Portland, OR
RV6A working on the fuselage frame
bobh(at)cdac.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
The trick is to pitch the aircraft up about 20 degrees (which will scrub off
speed), neutralise or unload the stick and feed-in full aileron. DO NOT
PUSH OR PULL on the stick..........
I have often wondered why the 20 degree pull-up. Is it just to slow the
airplane down? Is it to keep the line of flight level without the use of
elevator?
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A CG envelope |
In reply to the replies about a forward baggage hold on the -6A; I am NOT
looking to make extra work for myself, or compromise the structural integrity
of Van's design :^)
I was under the impression that this model had a tendency to push the aft end
of the CG envelope when 60 lbs of baggage was on board and a 320 with wooden
prop was up front. Even the factory advised me to use a standard starter for
forward ballast. Are my concerns groundless? If so, I'll drop the idea like
a hot potato... I've certainly got enough else to do on this airplane that IS
on the plans.
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A For Sale |
Dave Barnhart wrote:
<< My good friend, Scott McDaniels, formerly owner of Arizona Aerocrafters
and
now working in Van's prototype shop, has reluctantly decided to put his
beautiful RV-6A up for sale for financial reasons only.
Engine Compartment:
- Lycoming O-320-D3G w/MA4 Carb.
- Performance propellers 63 X 66, 3-blade fixed-pitch prop (lots of stuff
cut)
>>
Dave- the 199 mph sounds nice. How does your friend like the T/O and climb
performance of the prop? Three blades are often regarded as smoother than
two. I am working on a 6A tip-up with O-320 E2D and considering a harmonic
balancer and wooden prop, hence my interest in the three-blade. I'm sure
others on the list have similar interest.
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: flap rod end bearing redux |
Lots of bandwidth has been given over to discussion of the design of the flap
pushrods using the staked Aroura bearings with studs and the reticence of the
Canadian authorities to approve same...
FWIW, my tech counselor was over yesterday nosing around and I pointed out
this feature to him, noting the controversey which had come up recently on
the list. He proceeded to point out that Van has designed the brake
pedal/cylinder attachment the same way, except he used an AN bolt in a
cantilevered arrangement, supported at only one end, and carrying a *bending
load* (horrors!) as it transmits pedal force to the master cylinders. Why
not add a second welded tab to pick up the outboard load on these bolts??
Why not, indeed. Maybe Van knows. We concluded our dialogue with the
observation that, like the flaps, Van has alot of troublefree hours logged
on these systems as far as we know. If it hasn't given someone grief by now,
it's not likely to.
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
Dave Barnhart writes:
Some of us with with fuel-injected engines are hesitant to put the
gascolator downstream of the boost pump. At 30 psi, you can pump a lot
of
fuel overboard quickly if the gascolator leaks. Neither of use feels
comfortable presurizing a gascolator to 30 psi, either.
I believe the regular homebuilt gascolator is just NOT SUITABLE anyway
for 30psi. I put mine B4 the pump. Others who put it after had to use a
high pressure gascolator.
Could someone (if it already hasn't been done) post the filter types
and fittings used for the inline filters?
Ken
rv6a Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cecil Hatfield / Fourstar Printing <cecil(at)alto1.altonet.com> |
4. Squeezer. ADV: Control. Power.
DISADV: Tool cost (or borrow one)
Comments welcomed.
Ken Smith
Empanage RV6
kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com
Ken a year or so ago I was at this spot in construction.
I got everything ready and had Van send me his squeezer for about four days.
At that time it cost me less than $20 total. IMHO thats the only way to go.
-------------------------------------
Cecil Hatfield
cecil@altonet
RV-6A (wings)
Date: 11/30/96
Time: 12:57:43
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Riveting spars |
> The options for riveting the main spars and (my perceived) merits of each
> are listed below.
You're missing some methods. You can also construct a squeezer out of 3
1/2-inch steel plates, 4 long threaded rods, some bolts, and a 3-ton
bottle jack. Or you can use an arbor press.
For the bottle jack method, scan the archives -- I think Doug Weiler posted
his system 9 months or a year ago.
-J
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
14190 47th Ave N.
Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing skin overlap |
Help: Regarding my 6A main wing skins. Does the outboard main wing skins
overlap the inboard skins or vice-versa. The blueprints and the construction
manual contradict one another. Thanks in advance for your reply.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shobenshield(at)cmsd.bc.ca (Shirley Hobenshield) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 fwd baggage hold |
Perhaps should explain what and why I wrote of putting a weight foreward on
our RV-6, Serial 23337#.
The aircraft weighs 1019. My partner, myself, 40 lbs baggage and 24 gal
fuel total 1593 lbs. CG = 76.6 in. aft of datum. I believe the design C.G.
range is 68.7 to 76.8 inches aft of datum. With fuel burn does the C. G.
move back further?
We also have fitted a plastic tool box above the rudder petals and the
aircraft was weigh with this in place empty.
All I have done so far is fly local flights I have not filled the box with
tools or other odds and ends.
In my opinion this set-up should work well.
Carrying around a lead weight foreward in the engine compartment I feel is
pretty foolish in this situation. And as one writer said, the harmonic
dampener would give you an increase in RPM plus weight foreward, ( If
really needed )
As adding the damper and the price of another prop is not in my intrest at
this time, I am very happy with the aircraft as is, although it is somewhat
under pitched.
If any of you people out there who may have any suggestions or feel I may
have a problem with this set-up, your input would be appreciated.
( I will be buying my partner out next year )
Ed Hobenshield.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DMCooke <dmcooke(at)rand.nidlink.com> |
dimensional.com!mikel(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> I have often wondered why the 20 degree pull-up.
Michael,
The pull-up at the beginning of a roll does four things. 1.Slows the
aircraft down. This is a property of, but not necessarily a desireable
feature of, this proceedure. 2. Keeps the roll positive so that, if you
do not have an inverted system, your engine will continue to run and
maintain oil pressure throughout the roll. 3. Allows you to use only
aileron and rudder with no elevator inputs except for the pull-up and
pull-out. It is therefore much easier than a roll which requires
constant variation of elevator and rudder displacement. 4. Maintains
altitude. In most airplanes a positive G roll started at level flight
will end in a steep down line on the pull-out resulting in a significant
loss of altitude. In my opinion numbers 2 and 4 are the main reasons for
the pull-up with number 4 being the most important.
Regards,
Dave Cooke
dmcooke(at)rand.nidlink.com
RV-4 ailerons
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lsmith(at)coastalnet.com (Louis E. Smith Jr.) |
>As I remember, it was a fairly large filter, not small like the in line
>filters discussed on the list. If anyone is interested in this, E-mail me
>off-list and I'll try to find the issue of SA that this was in.
>
>Bob Skinner RV-6 350 hours BSkinner(at)krvn.com
>
>
Bob,
I am interested in the filter. I have all back issues since about 1989.
Thanks,
Louis Smith
lsmith(at)coastalnet.com
RV-8 #80126 wings>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | RV-6 fwd baggage/harmonic dampner |
>range is 68.7 to 76.8 inches aft of datum. With fuel burn does the C. G.
>move back further?
>Carrying around a lead weight foreward in the engine compartment I feel is
>pretty foolish in this situation. And as one writer said, the harmonic
>dampener would give you an increase in RPM plus weight foreward, ( If
>really needed )
>Ed Hobenshield.
Ed, You are correct. As fuel burns, your C.G. will move aft. The harmonic
dampner would move C.G. forward. However, when I took my harmonic dampner
off my six, rpms did not change.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
I had a few responses to my comment about an in line filter as opposed to
the gascolator so found the article and decided to post the info here as I
think it's a worthwhile article that covers many aspects of the fuel system,
not just gascolators.
The article is in the April 87 Sport Aviation on page 29 and is written by
Lyle Powell Jr. For those who can't get a copy, the filter that he used on
his Glasair was a FRAM HPG-1 fuel filter. His words on the subject: "It is
commonly used in racing cars and boats, has an excellent service experience.
It has a 13 ounce capacity, a steel case into which you can pit a drain
valve. Expensive and bulky, but a good example of what is needed."
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A CG envelope |
>In reply to the replies about a forward baggage hold on the -6A; I am NOT
>looking to make extra work for myself, or compromise the structural integrity
>of Van's design :^)
>I was under the impression that this model had a tendency to push the aft end
>of the CG envelope when 60 lbs of baggage was on board and a 320 with wooden
>prop was up front. Even the factory advised me to use a standard starter for
>forward ballast. Are my concerns groundless? If so, I'll drop the idea like
>a hot potato... I've certainly got enough else to do on this airplane that IS
>on the plans.
>
>Bill Boyd
>SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Bill, On my metal prop, RV-6, which has an empty wt. of 1088, I arrive at
the aft limit with a 215 lb pilot, 200 lb passenger, 20 lbs of baggage and 8
gallons of fuel. The standard starter is probably a good idea from a weight
standpoint. I do like my Sky Tec as it seems stronger and it saves wear on
the ring gear because the starter gear is not turning when it engages the
ring gear.
Before cutting into the forward skin, I'd sure want to visit with Van's.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A For Sale |
In response to my posting about Scott McDaniels putting his beautiful RV-6A
up for sale, Bill Boyd SportAV8R(at)aol.com asked:
>Dave- the 199 mph sounds nice. How does your friend like the T/O and climb
>performance of the prop? Three blades are often regarded as smoother than
>two. I am working on a 6A tip-up with O-320 E2D and considering a harmonic
>balancer and wooden prop, hence my interest in the three-blade. I'm sure
>others on the list have similar interest.
Last year I rode along on a flight of two RV's. I rode in Richard DeWItt's
160 hp RV-6 with a fixed-pitch wood prop (I can't remember who's prop).
Scott was flying his Rv-6A. Scott also had a passenger, so we were pretty
even, weight wise (Scott may hav been at a slight disadvantage there, too).
Scott could run away from us in both climb and cruise.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
Trimming the canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
I just wanted everyone contemplating the use of the transparent inline fuel
filter - specifically the Purolator Model Pro-804 - to be aware that an
NTSB notice concerning this filter was published in the May 1996 issue of
Sport Aviation.
The internal retaining nut can back off, blocking fuel flow. The fix is to
secure the retaining nut with a cotter pin.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
Trimming the canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: Wing skin overlap |
>Help: Regarding my 6A main wing skins. Does the outboard main wing skins
>overlap the inboard skins or vice-versa. The blueprints and the construction
>manual contradict one another. Thanks in advance for your reply.
The outboard skin goes on top. This is a switch from the earlier kits where
the inboard skin was on top. The switch was made when Van started shipping
the pre-punched wing skins. And I remember, it *was* confusing. The plans
showed one thing and the construction manual said another.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
Trimming the canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: Riveting spars |
Joe Larson wrote:
>
> > The options for riveting the main spars and (my perceived) merits of each
> > are listed below.
>
> You're missing some methods. You can also construct a squeezer out of 3
> 1/2-inch steel plates, 4 long threaded rods, some bolts, and a 3-ton
> bottle jack. Or you can use an arbor press.
>
> For the bottle jack method, scan the archives -- I think Doug Weiler posted
> his system 9 months or a year ago.
>
> -J
>
> --
> Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
> Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
> 14190 47th Ave N.
> Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot.
Does anyone know the kit price for the rv-8, and wether or not Van's has
said any more of offering a fuselage kit to mate up with a set of 4
wings and tail? lottmc(at)datastar.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
> I have often wondered why the 20 degree pull-up.
Generally, you want to do your roll at zero G, so that the nose stays
on the same heading. But, if you just unload and roll, the nose will
drop and you'll loose altitude. You often see this in documentaries
that show air-to-air shots of fighter pilots doing rolls without
first pulling up.
To finish the roll at the same altitude you started at (very important
if you're doing an air show at low altitude, but equally important in
a clean airplane that picks up speed fast), you need to first pitch up.
Most important of all though: don't do this without instruction.
Tedd McHenry
Edmonton, Alberta
tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
(-6 plans only)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A CG envelope |
Bill,
My RV6 now has 350 hours on it. My plane weighs in at 1020#. I have a
O-320E2G with a standard starter. I have a wood prop but no harmonic
balancer. Rear CG only becomes a concern with a real heavy passenger,
baggage and minimum fuel. For example, with a 170 lbs pilot (me), a 224 lbs
passenger, 45 lbs of baggage and 5 gallons of fuel my CG is 76.5 inches aft
of datum. Van calls the aft limit at 76.8 inches. Depending on your
situation, you could very well have a rear CG problem. However, unless you
are a really heavy guy, I would think real hard before trying to make a
forward baggage compartment. A local guy tried something similar with his 6A
and I question how well it really worked out.
Rick McBride
RICKRV6(at)aol.com
N523JC, 20404
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gascolators, was Rigid Fuel Lines |
>Anyone else out there junking the gascolator? I know this is in the
>archives but much has been built since then.
>
>Michael
I did, like it much better. Sure did stop my vaporizing problem with auto
fuel. Seems like what kind of filter and where to locate them is a lot like
what kind of primer to use. I used clear plastic with clamped rubber hose
in line in front of the wing spar (between each tank and selector). I got
them at Walmart, for a V8 Chrysler product, has 3/8 inch fittings. Fuel
flow supports the O-320 at least. I can see them clearly to see if they are
clear. If the plastic worries you, you can get the same in metal at NAPA
stores. If the rubber clamped hose worries you, you can get a canister type
with element replaceable and threaded fittings, a lot like the oil filter on
a Ford 8N tractor. And if the fuel in the cockpit worries you, you could
always fly a glider :-).
Biggest problem is when you change them, have to drain the tanks or live
with fuel in the cockpit.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rigid Fuel Lines |
>I am concerned about the in series set up of the aux pump and engine pump and
>am considering a parrallel system (ie piper)
but I am concerned about how effective the>Facet electric pump will be if
the engine pump quits. Will I be pumping fuel
>overboard with the electric pump or will it go through the engine pump to the
>engne? I suppose it depends on whether one or both of the diaphrams in the
>engine pump fail. If anybody knows how this works, let us know. I have
>concerns about check valves in a parallel system too. Is there an expert on
>this out there?
>
Bill;
As you know, I'm no expert. I have considered the parallel system as well,
but hate the idea of all of that plumbing. I think the RVAtor had an
article on it some time back. If I find it, I'll let you know.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 fwd baggage hold |
With fuel burn does the C. G.
>move back further?
Ed;
Yes.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A CG envelope |
I did not build a luggage compartment for my 6A but I did add a
"console" . The console fits between the two floor stiffeners between
the pilot & pass. Side view is something like this:
----------0
| |
| |
| |
| ---------
| 0- - - - |
| |
| |
----------------------------------
The access cover is hinged (0) at the top and in the center.
This gives me a place to store about 20# of survival & other assorted
gear, it gives me a place to put maps, pens etc, since the top of the
bottom step is recessed. It also helps to keep th CG from shifting too
far back by allowing the storage of this gear ahead of the CG. It is
fastened with two piano hinges to the floor stiffeners & a bolt to the
bracket that holds the overhead rudder pedals.
Works for me !
Ted French
RV-6A C-FXCS
60 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Harmonic Balancer |
I've read a few comments about Landolls Harmonic balancer and read
Tony's comments about it. I'd like to read some comments about it from
you all who are currently flying behind one. I'm getting ready to order
prop and accessories and it has my interest.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net> |
DMCooke wrote:
>
> dimensional.com!mikel(at)matronics.com wrote:
> >
> > I have often wondered why the 20 degree pull-up.
>
> Michael,
>
> The pull-up at the beginning of a roll does four things. 1.Slows the
> aircraft down. This is a property of, but not necessarily a desireable
> feature of, this proceedure. 2. Keeps the roll positive so that, if you
> do not have an inverted system, your engine will continue to run and
> maintain oil pressure throughout the roll. 3. Allows you to use only
> aileron and rudder with no elevator inputs except for the pull-up and
> pull-out. It is therefore much easier than a roll which requires
> constant variation of elevator and rudder displacement. 4. Maintains
> altitude. In most airplanes a positive G roll started at level flight
> will end in a steep down line on the pull-out resulting in a significant
> loss of altitude. In my opinion numbers 2 and 4 are the main reasons for
> the pull-up with number 4 being the most important.
Exactly... this is a BARREL ROLL, as opposed to a slow roll or an
aileron roll (or a snap roll for that matter). Barrel rolls are the
easiest to do, and when done correctly pull no negative g. Read Duane
Cole's "Roll Around a Point"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Riveting spars |
<< 4. Squeezer. ADV: Control. Power.
DISADV: Tool cost (or borrow one)
>>
The pneumatic squeezer can easily become the cheapest way to set spar rivets.
I understand one can be rented from Van's, and the Orndorff's.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
P.S. If listers would add the state of residence that they live, I could tell
if they lived close enough for me to loan my spar rivet squeezer. It has
already done two RV-4 spars, set a tricky spar rivet on a completed RV-6
wing, and I still haven't done my RV-4 spar, yet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel sending units/tank ribs |
<< Do these sending units have to be mounted exactly vertically, or can
they be adjusted, electrically or otherwise, to compensate for a
dummy's mistake?
George Kilishek
RV8 #80006
Finished preparing wing ribs
>>
You'll just need to install the float so it is parallel with the top and
bottom of the tank, before the stops are adjusted to get the proper level
readings.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
>> The pull-up at the beginning of a roll does four things. 1.Slows the
>> aircraft down. This is a property of, but not necessarily a desireable
>> feature of, this proceedure. 2. Keeps the roll positive so that, if you
>> do not have an inverted system, your engine will continue to run and
>> maintain oil pressure throughout the roll. 3. Allows you to use only
>> aileron and rudder with no elevator inputs except for the pull-up and
>> pull-out. It is therefore much easier than a roll which requires
>> constant variation of elevator and rudder displacement. 4. Maintains
>> altitude. In most airplanes a positive G roll started at level flight
>> will end in a steep down line on the pull-out resulting in a significant
>> loss of altitude. In my opinion numbers 2 and 4 are the main reasons for
>> the pull-up with number 4 being the most important.
Number 4 is important in an under-powered aircraft like a C150 (or when
close to the ground as someone else pointed out), but I'd say number 2 is
more important, having inadvertently got -ve Gs in a C150 whilst inverted.
The last thing you need in a stuffed-up manoeuvre is for the engine to quit
on you!
>Exactly... this is a BARREL ROLL, as opposed to a slow roll or an
>aileron roll (or a snap roll for that matter).
Not according to the guy who taught me to do rolls (both aileron and
barrel), nor my aerobatics notes. A barrel roll involves continuous pitch
and roll simultaneously throughout the manoeuvre, which is NOT what the
question was about. In an aileron roll, the nose is pitched up at the start,
then the stick back-pressure released and full aileron applied.
>Barrel rolls are the
>easiest to do, and when done correctly pull no negative g.
Not for me... I sometimes find myself pulling hard up at the end and heading
in the wrong direction. Aileron rolls are much easier.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Rozendaal <DougR(at)netins.net> |
How fast should a -4 be with an O-320B1B w/ CS be at 5000 ft 2400 rpm and
wide open throttle? What impact will gear leg fairings and wheel pant
make?
reply to DougR(at)netins.net to save the bandwidth. Thanks
Doug Rozendaal
In Iowa looking for a -4 or -6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Rozendaal <DougR(at)netins.net> |
The roll everyone is talking about here is for purposes of this
discussion a primary or aileron roll. The importance of pulling the nose
up b4 rolling can not be over stated. If people are out screwing around,
and no matter how much people insist that people get instruction b4 they
do acro many will not. If you do not get the nose up you will end up
pointed directly at the ground at a high rate of speed sooner or later.
The first time you roll an airplane that you have not rolled b4 get the
nose way... up then as you learn how fast it rolls you will learn how
much nose up you need to make a very nice and comfortable roll.
But most importantly always!!!! start an aileron roll with the nose up.
if you end up 1 ft lower than you started it is a blown manuver. To see
how you are doing follow another airplane a safe distance behind, line it
up on the horizon and do your roll. This will provide precise altitude
reference.
Doug Rozendaal, Dougr(at)netins.net
Looking for a -4 or -6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel sending units/tank ribs |
<< Do these sending units have to be mounted exactly vertically, or can
they be adjusted, electrically or otherwise, to compensate for a
dummy's mistake?
George Kilishek
RV8 #80006
Finished preparing wing ribs >>
George:
One of the guys in my shop had this problem last week on a customers bird.
Turns out he had the wrong (left vs right) sender in his hand. You may want
to check this out...
You could also rotate the cover plate a bit- you might need to file a new
flat spot, tho.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | catbird(at)taylortel.com (TTC Carroll A. Bird) |
Anne B. Hiers wrote:
>
> Listers
>
> Has anyone put the gascolator inside the cockpit between the boost pump
> At Kerrville this year I looked at an RV4 with the gascolator
mounted in the center of the fuselage on the front side of the F-402
bulkhead. The builder had installed a very neat door in the F-422 skin
to access the drain valve.
I am interested in the installation of fuel filters instead of a
gascolator.
Carroll Bird Buffalo Gap, TX
catbird(at)taylortel.com
RV4 fuselage out of jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: archives access, how? |
This computer novice would appreciate directions on accessing the RV
archives.
Thanks in advance for the help !
Steve Schmitz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Riveting spars |
>The pneumatic squeezer can easily become the cheapest way to set spar rivets.
> I understand one can be rented from Van's, and the Orndorff's.
>
>Jim Ayers
I used Van's pneumatic squeezer on the spars of my first six. I believe
that it rented, at that time, for $10.00. It did a nice, quiet job. I
tried using the Avery tool to set the rivets. Unfortunately, I had a severe
case of tennis elbow from Scotch briting aluminum. By the second rivet, I
had a tear rolling down my cheek, so rented the squeezer. I'll never think
anyone who has tennis elbow is a pansy again. It hurts like the dickens. I
couldn't pick up a cup of coffee or hold my electric shaver. From now on, I
use metal cleaner to etch large surfaces, not Scotch brite.
For the spars on my second RV, I used the Avery tool. The idea of banging
away with a hammer didn't have much appeal to me but I thought I'd give it a
try. It worked very well. It took 3 to 4 wacks with about a 3 pound
hammer. The advantages to this method are: you already own the tool, no
wait for the squeezer, no pressure to hurry up with the squeezer so that
next builder can have it and, I think there is a possibility that it does a
better job. I feel that there is a better chance of having all of the
flange strips tight by using the Avery tools. Before I set each rivet, I
placed the ram with the hole in the end (for the various rivet sets) over
the #6 rivet and lightly tapped the set. This pretty well assures that the
stack of aluminum is compressed. I then inserted the flush set and wacked away.
Using the Avery tool with a hammer sounds crude but it works very well. I
set my tool on the concrete floor and had additional mass under the #6 set.
Make sure the weight of the spar rests on the rivet that is in the #6 set.
Some builders have blocked the spar up too high to where the spar kind of
floats and the factory head of the rivet doesn't make good contact with the
set. I've seen some rivets with "smilies" because of this. By the way,
wear hearing protection. Your ears will thank you and the process doesn't
sound nearly as bad.
For those of you trying to set the #6 rivets with a 4X gun, be sure to
start with the short rivets. They're easier to drill out. I'd think a 5x
or 6x gun would do a better job than the 4x. I have a little experience
with a 4x and #6 rivets (not on a RV--rebuilding a wrecked Bonanza) and I
felt that it took too long to set the rivet thereby work hardening the rivet.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com (Nebraska, Jim. Go Big Red)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BDStobbe <70743.2727(at)CompuServe.COM> |
I would highly recommend that anyone contemplating aerobatics in any aircraft
get some instruction first, even if you only intend to try a roll.
Even though you may have read all the books and the advice on this list which
tell you to pull up first for a basic aileron roll, unless you have done it
before you will more than likely under estimate the amount of pull up required,
get excited and forget to unload the elevator (even a little positive G-load
will screw up the maneuver), and end up headed straight at the ground soon after
you go inverted. Once this happens you better be calm enough to do all the
right things quickly or you will be faced with a high-G recovery from a dive
which can easily exceed Vne.
If you're really having a bad day your dive may be at a negative angle rather
than straight at the ground. Normally the correct response would be to roll
out, but most beginners will try to loop out instead by pulling back on the
stick...it's a conditioned response for most of us whenever we see the dirt
rushing up at us, right? Talk about your high-G maneuvers, this one will
definitely affect all four of your cheeks, especially if you got really excited
and forgot to pull back on the power.
It might be hard to imagine how all this can happen from a simple attempt at a
roll but believe me it can, and it happens fast.
A lesson or two is cheap insurance here IMHO.
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6 N508RV reserved
riveting skins on fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
> > I have often wondered why the 20 degree pull-up.
>
> Michael,
>
> The pull-up at the beginning of a roll does four things. 1.Slows the
> aircraft down. This is a property of, but not necessarily a desireable
> feature of, this proceedure. 2. Keeps the roll positive so that, if you
I posted a question a while back about entering a roll above Va, say around
160. Most replies seemed to think this was not a good idea if heavy roll
input was to be used.
In re-reading the August 95 RVator, I now remember where the idea came from.
There is an article by Van on doing rolls. In it he reccomends 170 IAS,
nose up, then "Hard aileron - half stick or more". (since there is no
admonition to the contrary, I read that to mean between half and full)
Obviously, a 20-30 pitch up is not going to slow the airplane down anywhere
near 135, so what gives?
I have tried to call Van himself, but can't seem to get him on the phone.
So, in the interest of science, I strapped on my parachute and did some
investigating. Starting with an entry speed of around 120-145, application
of 3/4 aileron produces the "pulsating" that others have talked about which I
assume has something to do with the aileron stalling. It also causes a
pretty slowish roll rate.
However, starting with an entry speed of 160-170 (which equates to about
150-160 after the pull-up) and 3/4-full stick results in a VERY fast roll
with NO aileron pulsating. Apparently the extra speed keeps the aileron from
stalling.
Considering the "benefits" of this method, and the fact that Van reccomends
doing it this way, I wouldn't think that there is any danger to the airframe.
Van is pretty conservative when it comes to things like this.
Comments?
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel sending units/tank ribs |
> I'm planning to use the SW units from Vans catalog.
>
> Do these sending units have to be mounted exactly vertically, or can
> they be adjusted, electrically or otherwise, to compensate for a
> dummy's mistake?
>
Don't fret it. The tanks have a lot of fuel above the "full" mark anyway due
to the wing dihedral. My tanks read 12 gallons on each side when the
indicators hit full. There is another 7 gallons past that. It sounds like
your gauges (?) will read over a little larger range due to more travel on
the arm, but each installation is a little different anyway.
My indicators read 5g at 1/4, 7.5g at 1/2, 10g at 3/4, and 12g full.
Ed Bundy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Harmonic Balancer |
>I've read a few comments about Landolls Harmonic balancer and read
>Tony's comments about it. I'd like to read some comments about it from
>you all who are currently flying behind one. I'm getting ready to order
>prop and accessories and it has my interest.
>--
>Chet Razer
>crazer(at)egyptian.net
>
>
>
In the 'Best of Puget Sound RVators' there are two or three articles from
two pilots that tried it on their RV-4's. Both tried to give unbiased
comments regarding the 'benefits' ( plus or minus) they found in the
balancer.
For those that are interested, please email me privately and I'll send you
those articles via return email. With over 600 members of the list I don't
want to waste bandwidth posting such a large email that wouldn't interest
that many people.
Alternately, you 'could' purchase the Best of Puget Sound RVators ($12.50
including shipping) and get all the articles-----------
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bseckstein(at)aol.com |
Can anyone explain to me what the 6B, 6T and any other variants of the 6 are?
Brian Eckstein Bseckstein(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
One way I was taught to start a descent in the RAF was to roll through
360 without lifting the nose prior to the roll.
A real nice rate of descent was set up...not exactly what you want with
an aileron roll!!
Ken
RV6A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: archives access, how? |
> This computer novice would appreciate directions on accessing the RV
>archives.
> Thanks in advance for the help ! Steve Schmitz
Steve, Log onto: http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/ go down to the
archive choice and use the method of your choice. I like the Matronics web
search.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Data on Harmonic Dampener (lengthy) |
I've been asked to send this to the entire RV-List so that it would be
included in the Archives for future use. PLEASE, if you want to respond to
this email DO NOT quote the entire email.
HARMONIC DAMPENER
by Greg Rainwater
Puget Sound RVators
Perhaps you have seen the ads in Sport Aviation for a harmonic dampener that
bolts onto Lycoming starter ring gears. This is advertised by Mark Landoll
Electrical Service, in the pages of Sport Aviation. The ad claims that it
will move your C.G. forward (it does weigh 12 lbs!), reduce engine
vibration, reduce engine wear, and increase flywheel effect and engine rpm
by 75 to 100 rpm.
I had always wondered if the thing really worked but never wanted to know
bad enough to pay $350 dollars to find out. I have talked to two RV pilots
who have the units. One purchased his RV 6 with the unit already installed
and swore by it. Of course, he never flew the plane without it, so did it
really make a difference? The second person is our own Dick Bently. If you
ask Dick you will probably hear him say that it sort of kinda works but it
doesn't take out three hundred dollars worth of vibes! Dick let me fly his
plane to try for myself. The trouble is, I had never flown his plane before
the installation. It seemed smooth enough, but in all fairness, it was no
smoother than my RV without a dampener. It looked as if I would never know
the answer.
Along comes our RV 6 builder and member, Gary Walters. He has an engine that
he purchased for his project that just happened to come with one of these
beauties installed. Now, any of you who know Gary are aware that he is
getting up in age. Eyes and ears always seem to go first. It was therefore
an easy task to "borrow" his dampener one day when he fell asleep in his
shop chair with a plans sheet over his head. (A rather common event I
assume, judging by his progress lately.) I also managed to get the 12 lb
steel weight that was, for some reason, also bolted on the engine. The 12 lb
weight is also sold by Landoll. It is just a steel weight, rather than a
weight floating in silicone jell as in the dampener. It is for those that
want the CG moved forward and the flywheel effect but not the harmonic
dampening or the big price.
I have installed the dampener on my 150 hp RV 4 for awhile to test it. I
have about 5 hours on it now and plan to use it for 10 to 15 hours or until
Gary notices that it is gone. I will then remove it and install the
straight, non dampened, weight for comparison. I plan to let everyone know
my results in an up coming issue of this newsletter. I must say that I have
always felt that my engine was very smooth as is. Maybe it works best on
real shakers! In any case, I will try to be as objective as possible
considering that this test is more "feel" than scientific data. Guess I had
better stop writing and go flying. I have some testing to get done. You
never know when Gary might wake up!
HARMONIC DAMPENER
by Greg Rainwater
Puget Sound RVators
The weather has been generally flyable and I have been able to rack up a few
hours using the harmonic dampener I described in the last issue. Gary
(Walters) has finally wakened up and discovered that it is missing so I am
finishing up my testing before he figures out who has it. I promise an
article for the next issue describing my results.
In the meantime, I received a letter from Mark Landoll who markets the units
(along with a neat little alternator/regulator and starter kit for RV's) out
of Oklahoma. It would seem that this little news letter gets around! We
are printing Mark's letter here for you.
A few of Mark's comments concerning the use of wooden propellers surprised
me. Namely, that wooden propellers cannot absorb the engine firing pulses
and that harmonic dampeners would be required on production aircraft with
wooden props. I have always believed that wooden props were generally
smoother than metal props for the same given installation. I also believe
that it was the marketing department and not the engineering department that
decided to sell Cessnas and such with metal propellers.
I decided to write Lycoming and get their thoughts. You will find their
reply following Mark's letter. In the meantime, I had better keep moving as
Gary is now wide awake and right on my heels! See ya next month.
(The following is the letter from Mark Landoll to Greg Rainwater)
Mark Landoll
1205 Redbud Lane
Newcastle OK 73065
March 29, 1994
Dear Mr Rainwater,
I have just read your article in the Puget Sound RVator where you question
the benefits if any in using my harmonic dampener on Lycoming engines with
wood propellers.
First, I would like to give you some history and background on how this
harmonic dampener has evolved. When I first flew my RV4 I had a metal prop
on it. Everything was fine until a friend of mine lost 18 inches off his
metal prop. I found out this could easily happen on re-worked slimmed down
metal props which were continuously operated above 2600 RPM. So I went to a
wood propeller where the higher RPM's were not so critical. This caused a
rearward CG change. When changing from a 30 pound metal prop to a wood 10
pound prop, I lost 20 pounds flywheel weight on the front of my engine.
Engine idling became rough and also the engine starting was not normal. My
light weight starter and alternator also contributed to the CG problem. To
correct this problem I started looking for a way to put more weight up
forward. Then I met a race car driver and when describing my problem to
him, he asked why didn't I install a harmonic dampener on the starter ring.
He told me that many race car engines are now using harmonic dampeners. I
called the manufacturer of these harmonic dampeners and asked if he could
make one for aircraft. Coming from Kansas, he was at my home in Oklahoma
City the next day. He is now manufacturing these harmonic dampeners for me.
Some of the benefits in using these units are:
1. Moves CG forward
2. Helps prevent wood prop from working loose
3. Dampens out harmonic vibration caused by firing pulses
4. Lets engine idle smoother
5. Assists in engine starting
6. Increased RPM
7. Extends engine life
This dampener works best on high compression engines. On souped up O-320
160 HP and O-360 180 HP the benefits are the greatest with as much as 100
RPM increases with a definite reduction in vibrations. One thing some
aerobatic pilots don't like about this dampener is it slows the pitch
movements which is due to the gyro effect but it is still less than what a
metal prop would do.
The harmonic dampener which you are using came from an RV-6 which I used to
own. I sold this RV-6 to Dr. Lee Harman who sold the engine and prop to
your friend Gary Walters. When I bought this RV-6, it had a metal prop on
it so I changed it to a wood prop for the same reason I changed the one on
my RV-4.
You asked why the added circular weight? The metal prop weighs 28 or so
pounds as compared to a wood prop of 10 pounds---an 18 pound difference.
Installing the harmonic dampener reduces this difference to 6 pounds.
Installing my light weight starter and alternator increases the difference
back up to 14 pounds. Then installing the steel circular 12 pound wight
puts it back to 2 pounds difference thus keeping the CG about where it
should be but not as far forward as a constant speed prop would put it.
This extra steel weight also makes for a smooth starting and idling.
Harmonic dampeners are used extensively on diesel engines and on many race
cars which all have very high compression engines. A metal propeller will
absorb most of the firing pulse shock where the wood prop can not. Now here
is another fact--Lycoming engines over 150 HP have never been used with wood
propellers on manufactured type certificated aircraft. If such an aircraft
existed you could be assured a harmonic dampener would have been required.
So analyzing all this information, common sense alone should convince one
the wood propeller with the four cylinder Lycoming engine surely needs more
weight for flywheel effect and harmonic dampening. In using my harmonic
dampener, the $350.00 is a small price to pay for all the benefits you
receive. The savings on engine maintenance and extended engine life alone
makes this unit well its cost.
I am glad to see someone testing my harmonic dampeners. In order to
properly test this unit one must fly his aircraft for several hours with the
dampener installed to get the feel of the dampening effect and then on the
same day at the same weather conditions remove it and fly without it. The
difference is so evident and pronounced one will become a fervent believer
in the harmonic dampener.
I plan to fly out to the Arlington NW Regional Fly-In this year and meet all
of you RV pilots. From the looks of your Puget Sound RVator, I would say
you gentlemen are organized and have many enjoyable flying hours together.
You can publish this letter in your RVator if you like.
See you this summer.
Mark Landoll
(This is the letter from Lycoming to Greg)
TEXTRON Lycoming
652 Oliver Street
Williamsport PA 17701
April 22, 1994
Mr Greg Rainwater
2518 80th PL SE
Everett WA 98203
Dear Greg:
Your letter of April 6, 1994, to our Customer Service Department regarding
harmonic dampers for wooden propellers and Lycoming O-320 and O-360 engines
was forwarded to me for reply.
Mr. Landoll's statement regarding a wooden propeller's inability to absorb
the vibratory pulses from a reciprocating aircraft engine is contrary to
anything I have ever seen or heard in the past. Rather, I believe that the
wood fibers tend to absorb vibratory inputs from an engine. Further, this
supposed failing is not the reason for certificated aircraft to not be
equipped with wooden propellers; it is more as you suspect - a happenstance
of the market. Perhaps most pilots with aircraft of 160 horsepower or more
do not want the hassle of having to re-torque their propellers on a regular
schedule.
As a check on my initial response to your letter I checked with Sensenich
Propeller. Their people told me that they sell many wooden propellers to
homebuilders using Lycoming O-320 and O-360 engines from 160 through 200
horsepower. For 180 and 200 horsepower installations they require an
adapter that gives an 8 inch diameter contact surface to increase the area
over which the attaching load is spread.
Obviously I have assumed that you were referring to fixed pitch wooden
propellers. There are some manufacturers of constant speed props who use
aluminum hubs and wooden composite blades. Two that come to mind are
Hoffman and MT. Both are German companies, but both have sold in the US.
Lycoming has determined satisfactory crankshaft torsional vibration
characteristics with some of these propellers on 160 through 200 horsepower
engines.
TEXTRON Lycoming Reciprocating Engine Division allows the use of wooden,
fixed pitch propellers on its engines of 160 through 200 horsepower. No
particular type of propeller is specifically recommended.
I trust that this will answer your questions in regards to the subject.
Very truly yours,
TEXTRON Lycoming
Reciprocating Engine Division
R. B. Schreckengast
Project Engineer
HARMONIC DAMPENER
By Greg Rainwater
Puget Sound RVators
Those of you who have read the last two issues of the Puget Sound RVator are
aware of a test I have been doing using a borrowed harmonic dampener on my
RV-4. Just to refresh your memory, this is a product which bolts onto the
starter ring gear on Lycoming engines. The unit weighs 12 pounds and
contains a free floating weight suspended in a very thick silicone jell.
The outer case is beautifully machined and it is marketed by Mark Landoll
Electrical Service of Newcastle, Oklahoma.
My RV-4 has close to 250 hours on it with considerably more on the engine.
I use an O-320-E2G of 150 HP and a Ted Hendrickson 68 x 76 wooden propeller.
I am extremely happy with its good performance and trouble-free operation.
I've always felt that it ran very smoothly. Keep that last statement in
mind. As stated in my first article, I was loaned this dampener for my
testing along with a straight 12 weight (same size but no dampening effect).
I first installed the harmonic dampener and flew for just over 14 hours. I
then removed the dampener and flew for about 4 hours total, followed by
installation of the plain weight, which is still installed. The supplier
claims seven advantages using the harmonic dampener. These are: moving the
CG forward, helping to prevent wood props from working loose, dampening out
harmonic vibration caused by firing pulses, letting the engine idle
smoother, assisting in engine starting, increasing rpm and extending engine
life. Let's look at my results one at a time.
MOVES CG FORWARD- This one is easy. Twelve pounds at that location moved my
CG forward approximately .75 inches. Of course, it also lowered my useful
load by 12 pounds. Still, I give this one a plus.
HELPS PREVENT WOOD PROP FROM WORKING LOOSE- I decided not to tempt fate and
try testing this one. I keep my propeller bolts properly torqued and don't
think I would change that, dampener or not.
DAMPENS OUT HARMONIC VIBRATION CAUSED BY FIRING PULSES-This is a tough one.
After installing the unit I flew it expecting to see a great change. I was
unable to tell any difference in vibration levels. Mark suggests that you
fly for a few hours and then remove the unit. This should give a better
test as the unit takes awhile to adjust to a particular engine installation.
After 14 hours I removed the nit and took off again. I would be real hard
pressed to say that I could feel any difference in vibration levels at
cruise. I could tell at idle but more on that later. If vibration levels
changed, it was extremely subtle. This is, of course, an extremely hard
thing to measure as it relies only on pilot "feel".
LETS ENGINE IDLE SMOOTHER- This was a definite plus for me. You could feel
and actually see the engine shake less at idle with the dampener installed.
It also had the added benefit of allowing a lower idle speed. With the
rather light wood prop, the idle speed must be kept slightly higher to keep
the engine running. On my installation, this idle speed had to be so high
that I would slowly gain speed on level ground while taxiing. With the
dampener installed, I no longer had to keep tapping the brakes and the idle
was smoother at 75 to 100 rpm less.
ASSISTS IN ENGINE STARTING- This claim confused me a bit. I have a
carburetor engine with the stock geared starter and it always starts in one
or two blades with or without the dampener. Perhaps it would help in other
installations, such as when using the straight shaft starter.
INCREASES ENGINE RPM- I ran tests, within a short time of each other, with
the dampener installed and removed. I looked at both static runup RPM as
well as full throttle at 3000 feet using both the aircraft tachometer and a
handheld digital unit. I could detect no difference on either instrument.
I'm not saying that there was no difference, only that I could not see any.
Note that the handheld Tru-Tach only reads down to 10 RPM increments.
EXTENDS ENGINE LIFE- In theory, at least, this makes sense I guess. If
something vibrates less it should last longer. Maybe I can get a government
grant to test this for the next 20 years or so. Anyone want to loan me
their Texaco card?
So what is the bottom line? As I mentioned earlier, I have always felt that
my engine ran very smoothly. The two main advantages I saw were moving the
CG forward and a smoother slower idle. It's interesting to note that I also
saw these advantages while using the plain 12 pound weight, which is
considerably cheaper. Mark does say that the dampener works best with the
large HP models. I am not an engineer but I guess it makes sense that more
compression and/or a bigger stroke and bore would vibrate more than my 150
HP model.
As I write this, this same dampener is being installed on Wes Schireman's
RV-4 for a try. Wes uses a 160 HP engine and the same propeller as me.
Dick Bently, also here at Arlington, uses the same engine/prop combination
as Wes. Dick has had a harmonic dampener installed for some time now and
his results seem to parallel mine. (HA! Maybe Ted's props are just
smoother. Just a thought.)
In all fairness to Mark Landoll, I believe that not everyone out there has
come up with the same results that I have. I know that I have overheard
pilots at Van's Homecoming talking favorably about this product. Can the
results vary widely from plane to plane? Let us hear from you.
ONE MAN'S TRASH----
by Wes Schierman
Puget Sound RVators
Although I have on occasion been the target of Greg Rainwater's sharp pen, I
feel compelled to publicly comment on my test of Mark Landolls' harmonic
dampener on my RV-4.
In fairness to Greg, I should point out that it was at his suggestion, in
order to get another point of view, and additional test data, that I agreed
to try the same harmonic dampener that he had used on his RV-4 with
negligible results.
Prior to the installation, my O-320 D1A, with a Hendricksen 68 x 76 prop,
would idle fairly rough at about 750 RPM cold and about 850 RPM warm. I
usually had to push it up to 900 - 1000 RPM to smooth it out, which led to
riding the brakes quite a bit during taxi.
In addition, I felt my engine to be fairly rough in the 2000 - 2200 RPM
range, particularly when climbing at high power in that RPM range. (with a
load on it)
After installation of the harmonic dampener, I now find that the aircraft,
with no adjustment, idles at about 700 RPM cold and 800 RPM warm (a loss of
about 50 RPM). However, the engine will now idle at this lower RPM about as
smoothly as it did before at 1000 RPM. This lower RPM translates to
significantly slower taxi speeds and, I would think, improved brake wear.
Inflight, the engine seems smoother at all RPM's and, although it is still
somewhat rough in the 2000 - 2200 RPM range, the frequency of the vibration
seems increased and the magnitude less (i.e., less shaking!)
To date, I have only flown about seven hours with the dampener, and that
mostly cross-country. However, a few aerobatic flights have given me the
impression that the engine is less prone to falter or quit if I happen to
get a little too much "negative G" on the aircraft when doing a hammerhead,
or roll, etc. (I still have the standard float type carburetor) It feels
like the flywheel effect of the additional weight seems to sustain the RPM
longer, allowing the engine to run longer under the temporary "negative G"
maneuvers.
On the positive side, the harmonic dampener moves the CG about 1/2 inch
forward which does help with a rear passenger aboard. On the negative side,
the dampener adds about 12 pounds of weight and the elevator stick forces
required when solo are slightly heavier.
Overall, I would say that my impression of the Landoll dampener, as
installed on my RV-4, is quite positive.
I guess the biggest problem now is to try to decide if I should try to buy
this dampener from its owner, get a new one or to just go ahead and put a
constant speed prop on my aircraft. I have been thinking about doing this
for the last three or four years.
In any event, I think that Greg's and my experience with this same dampener
points out that each installation may be different. It also adds credence
to that old saying, "One man's trash is another man's treasure!".
The above articles are from 'The Best of the Puget Sound RVator'. I
apologize for the length but feel that the content justifies it.
I did correct a couple speeling airs but probably didn't catch them all.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | VOR / Glideslope / Marker Beacon Antennas |
I am installing the radios in my RV6A and am not able to mount an antenna in
the tail because (oops) its already fiberglassed and painted. I am mounting
a king KX 155 NAVCOM with glideslope and marker beacons.
1.) Has anybody tried mounting the navigation antenna (shaped like a V
whisker) under the fuselage tail cone?
2.) Has anybody tried mounting a blade antenna (for glideslope) on top the
fuselage behind the canopy.
3.) I understand a vor antenna can be mounted in the wingtip, but I need
glideslope sensitivity and my strobe power packs are in the wingtip. Will
this work ?
I very much appreciate any experience good or bad that you may have had with
these antenna locations. Also, any recommendations on antenna model /
source would be helpfull.
Thanks
Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
Project Status: Engine mounted, Canopy mounted, working on panel.
It beginning to look like a real airplane !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Re: Data on Harmonic Dampener (lengthy) |
On 12/01/96 11:47:04 John Ammeter wrote:
>
>I've been asked to send this to the entire RV-List so that it would be
>included in the Archives for future use. PLEASE, if you want to respond to
>this email DO NOT quote the entire email.
>
>HARMONIC DAMPENER
>by Greg Rainwater
>Puget Sound RVators
**Good stuff posted by John Ammeter snipped**
Very good article posted by John, I would like to add that on my 0-360
with a wood prop it makes all the difference in the world at low rpm such as
slowing down to land or anytime the power is reduced. Because of the pulses
of the 180 hp engine and the light weight of the wood prop it would run
rough anytime power was reduced, the dampener stopped almost all of that
which in itself made it worth the money for me.
Jerry Springer
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First Flight July 14,1989
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Inline Filters |
>
>I just wanted everyone contemplating the use of the transparent inline fuel
>filter - specifically the Purolator Model Pro-804 - to be aware that an
>NTSB notice concerning this filter was published in the May 1996 issue of
>Sport Aviation.
>
This is anecdotal, but in defence of gascolators, I feel they do serve a
purpose. I have had two away from home engine failures in motor vehicles
related to the small in-line filters.
I fly a C182 a reasonable amount and on two occasions after heavy overnight
rain I have found water in the tanks, drained it, shaken the wings, drained
again etc until all traces of water have gone. At pre-flight the next
morning there was a good 30mls of water in the gascolator, presumably held
up somewhere in the baffles.
I suspect that a small inline filter would choke on this much water.
The RV is a different plane, lighter, easier to shake, no bladder etc......
but that gascolator will pick up a substantial quantity of water before it
starts passing it on to the engine.
Leo Davies
6A-making the empennage fairing fit.
leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ddickson(at)sisna.com |
I have been following the discussion recently on positioning gascolators and electric
fuel boost pumps.
I can't hold off any longer so I'll put in my two cents worth and that's exactly
what it is just my own
opinion.
I am referencing an article from the Oct. 1995 Sport Aviation by Lyle Powell on
Page 92. The article is
titled Homebuilder Alert - Fuel System Vapor Lock. Although the article is mainly
about the problem of
vapor locking and some solutions, it also brings in as part of the solution,
a discussion of auxiliary fuel
pumps and the use of fuel filters in lieu of a gascolator. I highly recommend reading
this article, it is
very informative.
I also have had some conversations with Larry Vetterman who has the company building
RV exhaust
systems (High Country RV - Exhausts) which Van also sells. Larry has an RV-4(
I think it is the
second one he has built, but I'm not sure) and he says that he has over a thousand
hours on RV's using
inline filters instead of a gascolator. He has also used different types of filters
durin this period. He is
sold on filters. He is a very interesting and knowledgeable RV builder and his
exhaust systems are
tops. He's well worth talking to.
I( when I was young and bold),having once lost power on take off in a F4U, can
never adequately
describe the feeling when there is no more runway and the engine has not yet made
up its mind
whether it's going to keep running or not. As a result, I feel that anything,
within reason, that can
increase the likelihood of the engine continuing to put out power is well worth
the investment.
In conclusion, on my RV-6 which will have an O-320-D2J, I will have an Electronic
ignition, a fuel filter
between each fuel tank and the fuel selector valve, an electric fuel pump in parallel(
with a check valve)
with the engine driven pump and NO gascolator. I will also put in a "fuel recirculating
line" as explained
in the SA article since I live in southwest Colo. where it is over 6000' and it
can get into the high 90"s
here in the summer.
I know there has been and can still be discussions on the placement of the filters
and I welcome all
criticism and suggestions, that's how we come up with the best solutions.
-------------------------------------
Duane Dickson - Finishing the empennage
have the wing kit in the garage
E-mail: ddickson(at)sisna.com
-------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
John Lucas says: Who is the gent out of the hillsboro, Or. area who
gives transition instruction and attends Sun & Fun each year...I would like
to have the specifics in order to get a little training next summer...
>I would highly recommend that anyone contemplating aerobatics in any aircraft
>get some instruction first, even if you only intend to try a roll.
>
>Even though you may have read all the books and the advice on this list which
>tell you to pull up first for a basic aileron roll, unless you have done it
>before you will more than likely under estimate the amount of pull up required,
>get excited and forget to unload the elevator (even a little positive G-load
>will screw up the maneuver), and end up headed straight at the ground soon
after
>you go inverted. Once this happens you better be calm enough to do all the
>right things quickly or you will be faced with a high-G recovery from a dive
>which can easily exceed Vne.
>
>If you're really having a bad day your dive may be at a negative angle rather
>than straight at the ground. Normally the correct response would be to roll
>out, but most beginners will try to loop out instead by pulling back on the
>stick...it's a conditioned response for most of us whenever we see the dirt
>rushing up at us, right? Talk about your high-G maneuvers, this one will
>definitely affect all four of your cheeks, especially if you got really excited
>and forgot to pull back on the power.
>
>It might be hard to imagine how all this can happen from a simple attempt at a
>roll but believe me it can, and it happens fast.
>
>A lesson or two is cheap insurance here IMHO.
>
>Bruce Stobbe
>RV-6 N508RV reserved
>riveting skins on fuselage
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Gray <klgray(at)bihs.net> |
I also had gas vapor lock problems, Auto gas for sure and during hot days
taking off and landing and then taking off again the 100LL would vapor
lock.
I did install a NACA air scoop on the bottom half of the cowl, funneled
the air right on top of the gascolator and fixed to problem. I do plan
on building an compartment around the gascolator to better use the air.
But since my plane sits for a couple of days not flying, I now fill one
side with 100LL and the other with Auto. I take off and land on 100LL
and joy fly on Auto.
Another way I check for possible vapor lock is to do my run up and watch
the fuel pressure gauge, if it moves around, I run it up to full power
for a little while, the gauge settles down and cool fuel is now in the
gascolator.
BTW this did not change any cooling effects on my engine having the extra
air from the NACA scoop in the cowl.
Ken Gray
klgray(at)bihs.net
RV-6 O320E2D 150 hp, Warnke prop, Hamonic Balancer just installed.
First flight Jan 96. Total time is 190 hrs. So much fun, its hard to
quit flying!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Hoatson <lhoatson(at)deltanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Leak Testing Fuel Tanks |
John Top wrote:
>
> >I'm just about to start the wings. Can I ask how many people have found
> >leaks after doing a careful job of prosealing? This sounds like a more
> >common problem than I first thought. Also, does anyone know the effects of
> >auto fuel on proseal? Is there an alternative to proseal that is more
> >adaptable?
>
> I am not sure what ProSeal is being used on the RV now. The last I saw was
> a 2-part mix. Bud Nelson, a retired Boeing engineer and one of the design
> engineers on the GlaStar is building a wet wing on his personal airplane.
> (The GlaStar has welded aluminum tanks). He worked with ProSeal on a mix
> that would hold up top the various additives and esters in MoGas (which
> will probably eventually find there way into AvGas as soon as big brother
> decides to further subsidize ADM or "lower emissions"). They came up with a
> 3-part mix which Bud used to seal his spars and will seal the rest of the
> wet portion of his wing if he has not already finished. I have not talked
> to him lately but will be in touch. I also intend to build a wet wing, but
> have not decided how to seal the spars, but will use the three part mix to
> seal the skins. Bud has offerred specs on the ProSeal butI have not asked
> for it yet. If anyone is interested I will post the specs when I get them,
> but the must be a sackful of RVs flying on MoGas with first hand knowledge
> of the current mix.
>
> John Top
> Phone: (619) 549-3556
I'd be interested to learn more about the formulation, and what it's
long term prospects are? Will it have the same life-span as the
current proseal?
Larry
Restoring C170A N9948A
Looking forward to RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Hoatson <lhoatson(at)deltanet.com> |
| Subject: | Fueling and Static Electricity |
Has anyone had any experience with STATIC ELECTRICITY while pouring
gasoline from a PLASTIC 5 Gallon can into an airplane?
My uncle (RV-6A N100WH) was recently question about the possibility of
static electricity and fire when using plastic fuel cans to refuel his
plane. According to the questioner , supposedly planes have been lost
due to fire when fuel from plastic containers. Doesn't seem possible,
but if anyone has any thoughts, comments or experience, we'd appreciate
the information.
Larry
Restoring C170A N9948A
Looking forward to next project
lhoatson(at)deltanet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Harmonic balancer |
The following is a copy of a reply that I sent. I thought the info that
John sent was interesting. Hope y'all don't think there is too much
discussion on this topic. (It's more interesting than primers.) The
harmonic balancer is an expensive piece of equipment and if we can distill
the "true facts" about this device, RVers will know if their money is being
well spent, or not. I wonder if the cheaper, 12 lb. steel ring might not
accomplish most everything that the dynamic balancer does? Something else I
wondered about was how fluid was the silicon in very cold weather. There
was a difference in how my engine idled between warm and cold weather. In
cold weather, the engine ran rougher. If I were to go to a wood prop again,
I'd probably lean towards the solid ring.
Impressions of smoothness with and without the harmonic dampner installed
are somewhat subjective. I wonder if using a Chadwick machine at the same
rpms, with and without the H.D. installed would be an accurate way to test
the effects of change?
BTW, I had no change in rpms when I removed the H.D. after about 250 hours
of operation.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
*previous post*
I used the HARMONIC balancer when I was using a wood prop. In my
particular installation, I felt that it made a very slight improvement. A
dramatic increase in smoothness occured after I had the prop dynamically
balanced (with the Chadwick machine). When I first put my Sensenich metal
prop on, my engine ran very roughly. I had some pitch taken out and while I
was at it, had the prop checked for static balance. It checked out fine. I
then had the prop dynamically balanced and this made a very, very noticable
difference. By the way, we put the Sensenich on a friends 150 hp RV-4 with
conical mounts and he said the prop about shook him out of the cockpit. He
couldn't wait to get back to land. He has been running a dynamically
balanced Prince prop.
This is not to say that you would not receive a benifit from the HARMONIC
balancer. You move some weight forward but it is kind of an expensive
weight. Also, Larry Vetterman believes that the use of the balancer will
help eleminate broken rings due to the "jerky" firing pulses that are not
dampened out due to the light weight of the wood props. He feels that
chrome cylinder engines are more susceptable to this than those engines with
steel barrel cylinders but either engine will benifit from the additional
weight and balancing offered by the Landoll balancer.
Bob SKINNER RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Leak Testing Fuel Tanks |
>John Top wrote:
>>
>> >I'm just about to start the wings. Can I ask how many people have found
>> >leaks after doing a careful job of prosealing? This sounds like a more
>> >common problem than I first thought. Also, does anyone know the effects of
>> >auto fuel on proseal? Is there an alternative to proseal that is more
>> >adaptable?
>>
>> I am not sure what ProSeal is being used on the RV now. The last I saw was
>> a 2-part mix. Bud Nelson, a retired Boeing engineer and one of the design
>> engineers on the GlaStar is building a wet wing on his personal airplane.
>> (The GlaStar has welded aluminum tanks). He worked with ProSeal on a mix
>> that would hold up top the various additives and esters in MoGas (which
>> will probably eventually find there way into AvGas as soon as big brother
>> decides to further subsidize ADM or "lower emissions"). They came up with a
>> 3-part mix which Bud used to seal his spars and will seal the rest of the
>> wet portion of his wing if he has not already finished. I have not talked
>> to him lately but will be in touch. I also intend to build a wet wing, but
>> have not decided how to seal the spars, but will use the three part mix to
>> seal the skins. Bud has offerred specs on the ProSeal butI have not asked
>> for it yet. If anyone is interested I will post the specs when I get them,
>> but the must be a sackful of RVs flying on MoGas with first hand knowledge
>> of the current mix.
>>
>> John Top
>> Phone: (619) 549-3556
>I'd be interested to learn more about the formulation, and what it's
>long term prospects are? Will it have the same life-span as the
>current proseal?
>Larry
>Restoring C170A N9948A
> Looking forward to RV6
Larry:
I cannot answer your questions at this time but will post any data that I
get whenever.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Darrell L. Anderson" <d.l.anderson(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Leak Testing Fuel Tanks |
Due to some setup problems, the following may have appeared before. Sorry!
I work on F-16s for the Air Guard and noticed that our fuel shop used a
sealing compound that looked suspiciously like Pro-Seal. I looked up
Pro-Seal in the FedLog database and found that the company now producing
all their products is Courtaulds Aerospace. Pro-Seal and most of the other
polysulfide and polythioether sealants are listed under the Mil Spec
MIL-S-83430. The stuff that the fuel shop is using, is p/n PR-1826 B-2
and comes in a caulking tube kit, shipped in a nitrogen filled sealed bag,
which they call a "Semikit". What makes it interesting is that there is
also a small bottle of primer that is applied to the cleaned and/or
alodined metal that has a half hour dry time before applying the sealant.
The package lists the primer as consisting of Isopropyl Alcohol, Methyl
Ethyl Ketone, and Epoxy Resin. The fuel shop specialists say that this is
the latest (F-16) recommended sealant from a long line that once included
the Pro-Seal that we see in aircraft supply catalogs. They also use a red
MEK based top seal for installing rubber gaskets on fuel access
panels....PR-1000, I think?
Addresses on the packages:
Courtaulds Aerospace
5430 San Fernando Road
Glendale, CA 91203
and:
Courtaulds Aerospace
14126 N.E. 190th Street
Woodinville, WA 98072
I have a pneumatic sealant gun obtained from Boeing Salvage that will work
with this system, but question if the sealant was designed to resist avgas
or autofuel. Obviously it works quite well with JP-4, JP-5, and now JP-8
in F-16 fuel bays.
I lined a small can with some sealant, and filled it with auto fuel. There
was no softening after two weeks. Same test with Methanol...no softening
or cracking. I didn't check it with avgas.
I won't be getting into the Seattle area till February (I'm in Montana).
Maybe someone in the area could stop by and get details, or direction to a
retail source. Everett Marine was supposed to be a dealer, and gave me a
copy of some application literature, but didn't have any stock on hand, or
any experience with the line of sealants. At the time they said that the
company (Pro-Seal) was being bought up by another company and they were
getting new literature.
Maybe this is the latest technology in sealants, packaged in a dispenser
that mixes the sealant accurately
Darrell Anderson
Great Falls, MT
RV-4, Skinning wings, tanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BDStobbe <70743.2727(at)CompuServe.COM> |
John,
I believe you are talking about Mike Seager who can be reached at (503)
429-5103 (according to the RVator) or probably through Van's...
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6 N508RV reserved
rivets, rivets, and more rivets on the fuselage
>>John Lucas says: Who is the gent out of the hillsboro, Or. area who gives
transition instruction and attends Sun & Fun each year...I would like to have
the specifics in order to get a little training next summer...<<
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing skin overlap |
The out board skin over laps the inboard so if water runs down the wing
towards the fuselege it will not get under the inboard skin....George
Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Leo poprivet |
Leo did you fine the poprivet tool you want . If not call or write and I
would be glad to purchase one for you and send it on. Let me know George
Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: VOR / Glideslope / Marker Beacon Antennas |
scott,
call me some time and I would be glad to talk about your antennas questions
, the answers would take to long to send email you need to know knot only
the answer but the reasons....George Orndorff 817-439-3280
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James K. Hurd" <hurd(at)riolink.com> |
| Subject: | STATIC ELECTRICITY |
Re: Larry Hoatson's inquiry.
While I don't have any personal experience with SE problems, I do recall
reading a real horror story in the Luscombe Newsletter 10-12 years ago
about a guy blowing up his car and getting burned pretty bad while
transferring gas in plastic containers. It's been suggested that you
install grounding wires in your plastic tanks with alligator clip to
plane. I used this system for years on my Swift. Maybe scientist-type
out there can provide authoritative answer...
Jim Hurd hurd(at)riolink.com
RV6A Empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | RV-list: Cowl Pins |
Listers,
Are there any thoughts as to best way to secure the cowl pins that are
closest to the spinner? They are the short ones that go into the extruded
hinges. The drawings and manual leave this area up to the builder's
imagination.
Thanks in advance.
Scott Gesele N506RV
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
<< I have often wondered why the 20 degree pull-up. Is it just to slow the
airplane down? Is it to keep the line of flight level without the use of
elevator? >>
If you don't pitch the nose up 20 degrees when you start the roll, your nose
will be 20 or more degrees down when you end the roll, thus, picking up a lot
of speed. If your aircraft has an inverted fuel system, the pitch-up is not
necessary because you can perform a "point roll" where you load and unload
the stick as necessary to keep your nose on the horizon. Simple aileron
rolls are a good starting point for aerobatics.
Get Instruction First!
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Harmonic Balancer |
Thank you John for posting the flight reports on Mark Landoll's Harmonic
Balancer. I am thinking of buying one myself but now I wonder If I should by
the ring only.
Anybody have the ring only?
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC, NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: VOR / Glideslope / Marker Beacon Antennas |
<< 1.) Has anybody tried mounting the navigation antenna (shaped like a V
whisker) under the fuselage tail cone?>>
That's where mine is. Used the "bent-V". See below.
<<2.) Has anybody tried mounting a blade antenna (for glideslope) on top
the
fuselage behind the canopy.>>
I used the same antenna for VOR as GS. Since the radio station that you want
to receive is below, and in front of the aircraft, I would tend to place it
on the bottom. Maybe that's not true but the set-up you propose would look
bad.
<< 3.) I understand a vor antenna can be mounted in the wingtip, but I need
glideslope sensitivity and my strobe power packs are in the wingtip. Will
this work ? >>
I would be worried about interference. My avionics guy suggested that I keep
all of my antennas a minimum of 4 feet apart from one another. I ended up
with the folllowing:
Encoder - about 1 foot centered behind the firewall (AV-22)
Comm - under the pilot area, bent-whip type (CL 122)
Marker Beacon - under the baggage area (co-pilot side) blade type (CL 102)
VOR/GS - Forward of the last bulkhead (CL 157P w/CL 507 splitter)
GPS - on top center behind the baggage area
ELT - about 2 feet in front of the tail (that thing whips straight back in
flight)
Hope that helps. My antennas can't be seen (except for the ELT) while the
aircraft is on the ground. They all work great. As far as hiding the
antenna's, I would be more concerned about how usefull they are then how much
drag they produce (2 to 4 mph would be my guess) especialy if you plan to use
your RV for IFR. Oh, about that rear VOR/GS antenna, if you place it too far
back people will walk into it at fly-ins. Mine protrudes only a few inches
on each side and is protwcted by the Horizontial Stab. I would guess that it
is 1 1/5 feet from the rear of the fuselage.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC, NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Leo poprivet |
>Leo did you fine the poprivet tool you want . If not call or write and I
>would be glad to purchase one for you and send it on. Let me know George
>Orndorff
>
George,
Must have been someone else after the popriveter. The videos have arrived,
Thanks
Leo Davies
leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)bala.HAC.COM (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: STATIC ELECTRICITY |
>Re: Larry Hoatson's inquiry.
>While I don't have any personal experience with SE problems, I do recall
>reading a real horror story in the Luscombe Newsletter 10-12 years ago
>about a guy blowing up his car and getting burned pretty bad while
>transferring gas in plastic containers. It's been suggested that you
>install grounding wires in your plastic tanks with alligator clip to
>plane. I used this system for years on my Swift. Maybe scientist-type
>out there can provide authoritative answer...
>
>Jim Hurd hurd(at)riolink.com
>RV6A Empennage
This can happen!
... while letting the turkey settle, I was reading my
father-in-law's retirement quarterly from Chevron, and they documented many
cases of exploding plastic containers as they were being filled at service
stations. A problem they don't like happening ...:^)
Apparently, the static effect is really enhanced if you place the
plastic (or even a metal) container in the bed of a pick-up that has a
plastic bed liner. Their recommendation was to place all containers on the
ground while they are being filled. This places them at ground potential.
The "grounding wires in your plastic tanks with alligator clip to plane"
above should be effective, but also ground the plane to some 'earth'
potential (tie down anchors?).
So, all you mogas users ... be careful!!
... Gil (probably stick with 100LL) Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
RV6A, #20701, N64GA rsvd. ... ready to glass the canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bubba Joe <Bubbajoe(at)earthlink.net> |
Just wanted to say HI to everyone.I am Rich Miller from Benton,Ar.I am
currently building an RV-4 (Horizontal stabilizer) in my garage.Anyone
out there in and around Ark.pls let me know of your projects.Also, does
anyone have the name of the person in West Memphis,Ar. who has a RV-4
for sale? Appreciate it and hope to hear from ya'll soon.
Bubbajoe(at)earthlink.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca (joehine) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-list: Cowl Pins |
>Listers,
>
>Are there any thoughts as to best way to secure the cowl pins that are
>closest to the spinner? They are the short ones that go into the extruded
>hinges. The drawings and manual leave this area up to the builder's
>imagination.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Scott Gesele N506RV
>scottg(at)villagenet.com
>
Scott,
One solution is to eliminate the piano hinge in favour (Cdn spelling :) of
three screws. I did this mod on my four after seeing it at Sun and Fun. I
think it is stronger and although it probably takes longer than the pins to
remove and install the cowling, it isn't a problem.
joe
joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca Comp. 9, Site 8, RR#4
506-452-1072 Home Fredericton, NB
506-452-3495 Work Canada, E3B 4X5
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert R. Moore" <bobmoore(at)wwd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: VOR / Glideslope / Marker Beacon Antennas |
aol.com!RV6junkie(at)matronics.com wrote:
> I used the same antenna for VOR as GS. Since the radio station that you want
> to receive is below, and in front of the aircraft, I would tend to place it
> on the bottom. Maybe that's not true but the set-up you propose would look
> bad.
Due to different frequeny bands, VHF vs UHF, I would not think
that one antenna would serve both VOR and GS.
Bob Moore
N4WZP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillAkin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-list: Cowl Pins |
Scott:
The best way to secure them is to the trash can and replace them with an 1/8"
backup plate riveted (#4s) and glassed to the bottom cowl with three #10
nutplates and countersunk screws/washers in the top cowl. The piano hinges
are bad about breaking in thia area and also at the joints across the bottom
between the cowl and fuse. Many people including myself have used screws and
nutplates in lieu of the curved hinges called for on the top cowl at the fuse
also. 600 hours has proven this to be a viable installation.
Good Luck!
BA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-list: Cowl Pins |
>Are there any thoughts as to best way to secure the cowl pins that are
>closest to the spinner? They are the short ones that go into the extruded
>hinges. The drawings and manual leave this area up to the builder's
>Scott Gesele N506RV scottg(at)villagenet.com
Scott, A lot of builders, me included, are using screws into nut plates.
The hinge loops have a tendency to break, even though the extruded hinges
are supposed to be stronger. The same can be said for the bottom hinges on
the bottom cowl.
I riveted and glued a plate to the bottom cowl that extends upwards into
the upper cowl. I used three #8 screws on both sides.
I used nutplates with #6 flush screws and washers both for the top of the
top cowl (7 screws) and on the bottom of the bottom cowl, 5 screws on each
side and it has worked out well, so far.
Bob Skinner, Nebr. RV-6 350 hours BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | Advice needed on how to move RV6A to airport. |
Its time to move to the airport hangar.
I have an RV6A on the gear (attached to a fake wood spar) in my garage. I
have unbolted the tail (HS, VS, etc).
Now, how do I get the thing to the airport?
My father in law suggests I start the engine and drive it to the airport
without the wings (of course he doesn't like the fact that I married his
daughter, so I will discount that idea. Although the expressions on peoples
faces would almost make it worthwhile).
Actually, I think I can rent a long U-Haul truck but I am not sure how I
could make a safe ramp that goes up that high. I am concerned that it may
fall off if I just throw a few planks up. Can anybody give me some
pointers. Thanks ...
Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Decoding e-mail addresses |
> From: "JHTH " <msn.com!JHTH(at)matronics.com>
That is a combination of what they used to call a "Bang Path" address, and a
normal e-mail address. You're aware that normal addresses are
@. Bang paths (named for the ! used to seperate the
elements - unix hackers call the exclamation point a "bang") would often
contain explicit routing detailing how machines are connected and the exact
route to follow to send the mail, starting with the machine it's coming from,
going to intermediate machines, the user's host, and finally with the user
name as the last step.
The address in question would translate as .
Replying to it as it is would send your mail first to Matronics, which would
have to figure out the msn.com part, and then msn.com would send it to JHTH.
That sort of stuff hasn't been necessary for years, and often no longer works.
--
(Sorry Randall, no more room for the Yakko Warner quote)
Richard Chandler
RV-6: Garage bought, saving for tools and tail kit (Christmas?).
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fueling and Static Electricity |
>Has anyone had any experience with STATIC ELECTRICITY while pouring
>gasoline from a PLASTIC 5 Gallon can into an airplane?
>
>My uncle (RV-6A N100WH) was recently question about the possibility of
>static electricity and fire when using plastic fuel cans to refuel his
>plane. According to the questioner , supposedly planes have been lost
>due to fire when fuel from plastic containers. Doesn't seem possible,
>but if anyone has any thoughts, comments or experience, we'd appreciate
>the information.
>
Larry et al:
Maybe I am misreading this or I have misunderstood something. There are
plastic jugs and then there are the 'plastic' fuel containers. I understood
the static elec. thing to be in regards to the plastic jugs. Since the
rubbermaid etc type of gas containers are a different type of plastic(?) and
are approved by the nation fire chiefs board or something, I was under the
opinion that the static then was not as applicable to the approved containers.
Our local FBO says that in the past year or so they (whoever that is) have
come out that the aircraft need no longer be grounded when refueling????
I know that years ago, for instance in the AF, the base service stations
would not permit fuel to be placed in none approved plastic jugs. But then
the approved 'plastic' containers came out and that policy changed. I
don't say that this is right or wrong, It's that : are there two kinds of
plastic that we are talking about??? Milk jugs etc vs approved rubbermaid
etc gas containers.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ciolino <jbc1(at)ziplink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Advice needed on how to move RV6A to airport. |
>Its time to move to the airport hangar.
>
>I have an RV6A on the gear (attached to a fake wood spar) in my garage. I
>have unbolted the tail (HS, VS, etc).
>
>Now, how do I get the thing to the airport?
>
>My father in law suggests I start the engine and drive it to the airport
>Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
Scott,
I rented a car trailer to haul my Kitfox to the airport. Has ramps and a
wooden floor ( it was not a fancy aluminium model)> to which I could nail
cleats to block the wheels and tie down everything.
Another option, although more expensive, is to have a tow truck with one of
those tilt beds take you to the airport. Most of those are all aluminium
and use big chains to hold on to the car. No place to gently, but firmly,
secure an airplane.
John Ciolino
jbc1(at)ziplink.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RFlunker(at)aol.com |
Hi everyone,
The Frank Justice doc references an alternative way to drill the gear without
having to temporarily install the wings. The reference is to a separate
writeup titled 'GEARLEG.DOC' Can someone tell me how to get at this
documentation?
Beyond that, has anyone tried this alternate procedure? How did it work?
Thanks in advance.
Dick Flunker, working on Fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dyer(at)ticnet.com (Terry ) |
| Subject: | Re: Advice needed on how to move RV6A to airport. |
I used a flat bed wrecker, one with the aluminum bed that tilts back and
lowers.
I had the horizontal and vertical stabilizers attached, but no rudder or
elevator. The important thing is finding a wrecker with a wide enough bed.
The main gear fit tight between the rails and we put 4x4 planks on both
sides of the tires and strapped them to the bed. The plane looked stable for
the whole 25 mile ride. We did get some strange looks. I think the bill was
about 60.00 and I gave him a good tip for TLC.
Hope this helps
Terry
294RV
>Its time to move to the airport hangar.
>
>I have an RV6A on the gear (attached to a fake wood spar) in my garage. I
>have unbolted the tail (HS, VS, etc).
>
>Now, how do I get the thing to the airport?
>
>My father in law suggests I start the engine and drive it to the airport
>without the wings (of course he doesn't like the fact that I married his
>daughter, so I will discount that idea. Although the expressions on peoples
>faces would almost make it worthwhile).
>
>Actually, I think I can rent a long U-Haul truck but I am not sure how I
>could make a safe ramp that goes up that high. I am concerned that it may
>fall off if I just throw a few planks up. Can anybody give me some
>pointers. Thanks ...
>
>Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
>
>
>
Terry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillAkin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-list: Cowl Pins |
Scott:
Bob skinner's right. I said #10 screws in my posting earlier in error. I used
#8's at all locations. 3 at the front cowl mating, 7 at the curved area top
cowl, and 6 ea. side on the bottom.
Bill Akin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Advice needed on how to move RV6A to airport. |
>Its time to move to the airport hangar.
>
>I have an RV6A on the gear (attached to a fake wood spar) in my garage. I
>have unbolted the tail (HS, VS, etc).
>
>Now, how do I get the thing to the airport?
>
>Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
>
>
>
If you were close to Seattle you could use my flatbed carhauler. Find a
friend with one or rent one. You may have to make some arrangements for the
main gear since most carhaulers aren't quite wide enuf (spelling error
intended); you'll just need to add about 6 inches on each side.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dann_Parks(at)KTEH.pbs.org (Dann Parks) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-list: Cowl Pins |
Has anyone had any experience using Camloc fasteners (or other twist-lock
fasteners) to hold on the cowl? They would be easy to get on and off, but
might not be as secure. I have used them for non-aircraft functions and found
them strong and versatile. Anyone used them on an RV?
Dann Parks
dann_parks(at)kteh.pbs.org
6A HS spar done (yeah, I'm a long way from fitting the cowl...)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Young" <gyoung(at)Net1.Net> |
I can't agree more with Gary and the other posters who recommend
instruction first. You WILL have blown maneuvers and find yourself headed
downhill, inverted or in a spin. Any airplane will pick up speed in a
hurry, especially one as clean as an RV. I had a Decathalon go past
redline on both the G-meter and airspeed due to a blown side window
blanking the elevator. I credit good akro instruction with saving my life.
Expect the unexpected and be careful out there.
Greg Young
gyoung(at)net1.net
Citabria N90AV
RV-6 s/n 23070 - left wing
----------
> If you don't pitch the nose up 20 degrees when you start the roll, your
nose
> will be 20 or more degrees down when you end the roll, thus, picking up a
lot
> of speed. If your aircraft has an inverted fuel system, the pitch-up is
not
> necessary because you can perform a "point roll" where you load and
unload
> the stick as necessary to keep your nose on the horizon. Simple aileron
> rolls are a good starting point for aerobatics.
>
> Get Instruction First!
>
> Gary Corde
> RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-list: Cowl Pins |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Listers:
After putting on a brand new metal prop, one of my cowl pins decided
to slide forward. I caught it just before it touched, but decided that a
new method of holding them in place was needed.
The solution is a simple, metal clip that "hooks" onto the inside lip
of the cowl, held in place with a single #6 flat head screw. The scew is
fastened to the top half of the cowl with a nutplate.
Simple and good looking, and still easy to remove when you have to
get at the hinge pins.....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>Listers,
>
>Are there any thoughts as to best way to secure the cowl pins that are
>closest to the spinner? They are the short ones that go into the
extruded
>hinges. The drawings and manual leave this area up to the
builder'simagination.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Scott Gesele N506RV
>scottg(at)villagenet.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Brake rotor to Fairing mount clearance |
I just put together one wheel/brake/wheel fairing mount assembly on the -6A.
The clearance between the brake rotor and the U-414 wheel fairing mount is
around 1/16 inch.
Is this Right?
Seems too close. The U-408 spacers are 13/32, per my plans, which must be
about right because the bolts called out are the correct length. What is the
answer?
(Just had my motor hanging this last week. Spent about 8 hours designing all
the parts that go on the firewall, and a whole bunch of money just for tube
fittings and controls. Still, there it sat, on all three wheels, motor,
exhaust and alternator. Looked like a real airplane. Was hard to remove the
motor mount/engine (Ain't ever going to remove those dynafocal mounts
again!!!!) to gain access for the 40 hours of work remaining on the
firewall.)
Bruce Patton
Finishing up landing gear details so I can get back to that MOTOR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-list: Cowl Pins |
Scott,
Becki and I used platenuts, Bring the pin forward to the front so to be able
to get to the platenut with a screw driver.....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-list: Cowl Pins |
The race car guys have some nice flush mount, captive 1/4 turn fasteners
marketed by Moroso. Two size grip available and are much more forgiving
(ordering/use) than Dzus. They are nice pieces and well up to the task.
Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RBusick505(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic Seat Belts |
I have investigated the Hooker Custom Harness ratchet seatbelt system. The
ratchet system allows you to tighten the seat belt much tighter than is
possible with a standared lap belt. I have used these belts, and they are
truly wonderfull when doing inverted and negative G maneuvers. There are two
Aerobatic A/C at the FBO I fly at, I always fly the one with the Hooker
Harnesses.
After talking to Scott at Hooker Harness, I was told that I need a primary
seatbelt anchor and a secondary anchor. Hooker recommends installing the
crotch anchor so that it can withstand about 1200lbs of force. Unfortunately
in the RV-6 the control stick gets in the way of using the F-604/wing spar
assembly as an anchor (it would have made a great anchor).
A question for anyone who has installed one: how and where do you put the
secondary anchor and were do you anchor the crotch strap
FYI, Hooker makes custom harnesses, and will make any color you want, will
match cockpit trim, parachute etc. Harness costs $250 per set. For those
who have not done much aerobatics, I think that the aerobatic harness is one,
if not the most important part of the A/C. You can do aerobatics without:
inverted fuel/oil system, parachute, etc, but don't even try it without a
good restraint system (the only thing keeping you in the A/C). You don't
even know what pain and suffering is all about until you hang from standard
lap belts for an entended period of time.
Hooker Custom Harness (815) 233-5478.
Bob Busick
RV-6
RBusick(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-list: Cowl Pins |
Scott,
I used the cowl pins per Van's design. I left about 1/4" extra length
on the hinge aft of the fiberglass and formed a dog leg in the hinge
pin. The hinge pin goes in from aft forward and is saftey wired through
a hole in the hinge itself. Works great, no problem after 110 hrs. The
only problem I had was the first few time getting the pins in/out, but
now they go in by hand (had to use a vice grips the first few times).
The use of a teflon containing lubricant helps considerably.
FWIW, on the outboard long pins I used a similar technique. I put a small
hole in the hinge, a #50 hole in the pin itself and safety wire (.041)
the hinge pin to the hinge. This works great and takes about as long
and getting a screw out of a platenut.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillAkin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-list: Cowl Pins |
Dan:
I wouldn't substitute any thing for the straight runs of piano hinge ie.
sides and rear top center. I believe the camlocs allow too much movement
which will prematurely chaffe the glass cowl and allow the hinges to wear
excessively. In addition, since camloc length is critical for a good snug
fit, the variance in the edge thickness of the cowl will make it difficult
get good consistancy. Stainless screws with countersink washers look good and
work great and with the power drivers we have today, removing and installing
the cowl is a snap (no pun intended). You need a minimum edge clearance of
3/4" to C.L. of screws with washer or camlocs. This, of course, is a function
of the backup plate depth used. I used 1/8" plates (3 screws/platenuts ea
side) at the spinner joints up front , .063 at the top curved
(7screws/platenuts ea side)and bottom joints (6 screws/platenuts ea side)of
the cowl and fuselage. All #8 screws.
Good luck!
BA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
I had an interesting flight yesterday from AEG to HOB (315 mi). It took
1:26 to get there, I was seeing ground speeds between 210 and
225 mph at 11,500' on the GPS. Man I thought I had the best RV-4 ever!
The flight home at 12,500' took 2:22! I was seeing ground speeds between
100 and 130 mph. For 3-4 minutes I was at full thottle at 96 mph
maintaining 12,500' crossing the Monzano Mts. There was unlimited visability
and the air completely smooth but what a wind! I'm still not sure what
to say when someone asks "How fast do you go?", my natural tendency is to
mention the trip down. :-)
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic Seat Belts |
True, but if you don't have inverted fuel then there is not much
of a reason to have a fancy inverted harness.
> if not the most important part of the A/C. You can do aerobatics without:
> inverted fuel/oil system, parachute, etc, but don't even try it without a
> good restraint system (the only thing keeping you in the A/C). You don't
> even know what pain and suffering is all about until you hang from standard
> lap belts for an entended period of time.
> Hooker Custom Harness (815) 233-5478.
>
>
> Bob Busick
> RV-6
> RBusick(at)aol.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: VOR / Glideslope / Marker Beacon Antennas |
<32A35EC4.6DFB(at)wwd.net>
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Listers:
Please check the archives for more details on this discussion. We've
had it before.......
I use a VOR antenna on the top of the vertical stab for VOR, LOC AND
GS. It works very well, but you need the correct antenna splitter.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV 810 Hrs total time 105 Hrs actual
IFR
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
November 23, 1996 - December 03, 1996
RV-Archive.digest.vol-ce