RV-Archive.digest.vol-cf
December 03, 1996 - December 16, 1996
writes:
>aol.com!RV6junkie(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>> I used the same antenna for VOR as GS. Since the radio station that
you want
>> to receive is below, and in front of the aircraft, I would tend to
place it
>> on the bottom. Maybe that's not true but the set-up you propose would
look
>> bad.
>
>Due to different frequeny bands, VHF vs UHF, I would not think
>that one antenna would serve both VOR and GS.
>
>Bob Moore
>N4WZP
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gretzw(at)tcplink.nrel.gov |
| Subject: | Fuselage Jig Available! |
I am now done with my RV-6 fuselage jig. (this jig will work for a
RV-6A also) I will gladly give it to anyone who wants it. It is a very
good jig made of wood and is very straight and durable. It has now
been used twice, and is good for about six or more airplanes. The only
catch is, when the next person is done with it, he must also give it
away to another builder with out any charges.
The jig is at my house in Littleton, Colorado, which is on the South
edge of Denver. Call me at (303) 770-3811 or E-Mail me at, ----
gretzw(at)tcplink.nrel.gov ---
I want and need to get someone to pick it up real soon, as I have no
place to store it and need the space. The hauling of this jig will be
done by the person receiving it. It can be hauled in a pickup or on a
small trailer.
Warren Gretz
RV-6 N25WG
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Advice needed on how to move RV6A to airport. |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Scott,
With the wings OFF, but the tail installed, I was able to use a car
hauler (ramp style) to transport my -6A to the airport. Made a second
trip for the wings. Worked quite well......
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>Its time to move to the airport hangar.
>
>I have an RV6A on the gear (attached to a fake wood spar) in my garage.
I
>have unbolted the tail (HS, VS, etc).
>
>Now, how do I get the thing to the airport?
>
>My father in law suggests I start the engine and drive it to the airport
>without the wings (of course he doesn't like the fact that I married his
>daughter, so I will discount that idea. Although the expressions on
peoples
>faces would almost make it worthwhile).
>
>Actually, I think I can rent a long U-Haul truck but I am not sure how I
>could make a safe ramp that goes up that high. I am concerned that it
may
>fall off if I just throw a few planks up. Can anybody give me some
>pointers. Thanks ...
>
>Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Cimino <jcimino1(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Just wanted everyone to know that my homepage has moved. The new address is
"http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5771"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: VOR / Glideslope / Marker Beacon Antennas |
<< Due to different frequeny bands, VHF vs UHF, I would not think
that one antenna would serve both VOR and GS. >>
What can I say, I didn't make this stuff up. They sell the couplers (Comant
CL505, 507, 1125 ot Dorne & Margolin H22-1, H23-1, H-69-1) just for this
purpose. The one that I used (CL 507) has a frequency of 108-1118 MHz and
329-335 MHz. The isolation is 20 db's minimum. Works fine.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC, NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Brake rotor to Fairing mount clearance |
<< I just put together one wheel/brake/wheel fairing mount assembly on the
-6A.
The clearance between the brake rotor and the U-414 wheel fairing mount is
around 1/16 inch.
Is this Right?
Seems too close. The U-408 spacers are 13/32, per my plans, which must be
about right because the bolts called out are the correct length. What is the
answer? >>
Yes it is right (as per plans) and yes it is too close. If my memory is
correct, I replaced the spacers with washers to get a 1/4 inch clearance.
There is enough room in the wheel pants that this extra 1/8" doesn't matter.
When I installed my pants, I tried to keep the fit as tight as possible
(1/8"). This turned out to be a mistake because the wheels "grow" while they
spin and I ended up with a hole in the top of my pants. Raising them an
additional 1/4 inch did the trick.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC, NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | j.henley(at)worldnet.att.net |
| Subject: | E-Mail address for John Hovan |
Can anyone tell me if John Hovan has a new web site? The last address I have
for him is http://rv.austin.com/jhovan/home.html I cannot reach that site.
Also, does Frank Justice have any new instructions for the finishing kit or
anything after removing the fuselage from the jig?
Thanks for inputs,
John Henley--Fuselage out of the jig
j.henley(at)worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | Heating and Cooling |
I had a discussion with an AME about the problems people have been
having with low oil temperatures.
There is a thermostat routed parallel to the oil cooler that is set to
close at 84C (183F). The oil cooler does not get full flow until this
thing closes. There is continuous flow through it, regardless of
temperature. Some of the builders have been adding a cockpit control
to close off the air to the cooler, raising the temperature. This
adds to the pilot's workload.
The oil is picking up heat from the engine and is rejecting it through
the case and the cooler. How well this works is a function of the
efficiency of the cooling plenum. According to the AME, some
manufacturers allow a large gap between the back baffle and the case
to shift the cooling load onto the oil cooler. It may be that leaky
baffles have a greater effect on oil temps than cylinder head temps.
Care must have been taken to balance the two temperatures. Adjusting
the baffles is undoubtedly easier than redesigning the cooling inlets.
Having read enough about the virtues of tight baffles, I am not about
to start carving up mine. I have never heard any comments about having
too many blast tubes. If the hypothesis about leaks and oil
temperature is true, then adding extra blast tubes (effectively a
leak) will have a beneficial effect on oil temperatures, not to
mention the accessories the blast tubes are aimed at. This may even
help those with vapour lock problems.
I wonder if a simple test could detect temperature change due to a
known leak. Perhaps one of the members will give it a try.
The following steps allows the pilot to create a leak equivalent to a
gap 12 by .25 inches.
Disconnect the output end of the tube from the baffles to the
heat muff.
Connect it to the cabin heat box.
Block off the overflow at the heat box.
Allow temperatures to stabilize (climb and cruise) with heat
selected Off.
Note what happens to the Oil Temp and CHT when the valve is opened.
If it turns out that the test indicates no effect, accessory cooling
could be improved and something else could be tried to raise the oil
temp.
The efficiency of the blast tubes can be improved by increasing the
diameter, using smooth wall tubing and providing a smooth entry to the
tube. Most installations that I have seen consist of a length of
corrugated tubing forced into a hole or a tube welded to a plate. Has
anybody tried a bellmouth (trumpet) flange?
David Fried
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heating and Cooling |
I run my RV4 like this in the summer. I take the SCAT tube that
goes to the heat muff and connect it to the firewall cabin heat valve.
(I also block off the heat muff outlet).
This gives me more air into the cockpit, but robs some from the
engine cooling. I have never seen any difference in having the
this cabin air on in the summer. There is just so much air comming
into that cowl that I never see my CHT get over 300 degrees F.
Most of the time they are 280 to 290.
I also pull both my eyeball cabin vents off the back of the engine
baffeling (I did not want to cut NACA vents in the side of my plane.
So, I am pulling a lot of air out of the cowl area and I don't
have a cooling problem. I also have blast tubes as follows:
2 @ 5/8 going to the gascolator, 2 @ 5/8s going to the mags,
and a 1 1/4 inch going to the fuel pump. This is all off the
rear baffels. The oil cooler has a 2.5 inch or 3 inch scat tube
going to it. On the front there is a 1 1/4 going to the alternator.
Given all these holes, my engine still runs cool if not cold.
This is on a RV4 with 150 HP O320-E2D.
Herman
dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
>
> I wonder if a simple test could detect temperature change due to a
> known leak. Perhaps one of the members will give it a try.
>
> The following steps allows the pilot to create a leak equivalent to a
> gap 12 by .25 inches.
>
> Disconnect the output end of the tube from the baffles to the
> heat muff.
>
> Connect it to the cabin heat box.
>
> Block off the overflow at the heat box.
>
> Allow temperatures to stabilize (climb and cruise) with heat
> selected Off.
>
> Note what happens to the Oil Temp and CHT when the valve is opened.
>
> If it turns out that the test indicates no effect, accessory cooling
> could be improved and something else could be tried to raise the oil
> temp.
>
> The efficiency of the blast tubes can be improved by increasing the
> diameter, using smooth wall tubing and providing a smooth entry to the
> tube. Most installations that I have seen consist of a length of
> corrugated tubing forced into a hole or a tube welded to a plate. Has
> anybody tried a bellmouth (trumpet) flange?
>
> David Fried
> dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Advice needed on how to move RV6A to airport. |
<< Actually, I think I can rent a long U-Haul truck but I am not sure how I
could make a safe ramp that goes up that high. I am concerned that it may
fall off if I just throw a few planks up. Can anybody give me some
pointers. Thanks ...
Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
>>
Hi All,
I rented a car hauler trailer to move my RV-3 fuselage. It comes with a ramp
on the rear end, and was long enough it contain the total fuselage. Take the
measurements of your gear width and fuselage length to you local rental yard,
and check it out.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
I'm getting to the point where I need to consider what method to use to skin
the wings. I want to avoid pop rivets if I can. I've reviewed the Frank
Justice manual and it seems to be a reasonable approach (although not
necessarily easy).
Any insights or advice any of you can provide would be appreciated.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: VOR / Glideslope / Marker Beacon Antennas |
<< 3.) I understand a vor antenna can be mounted in the wingtip, but I need
glideslope sensitivity and my strobe power packs are in the wingtip. Will
this work ?
I very much appreciate any experience good or bad that you may have had with
these antenna locations. Also, any recommendations on antenna model /
source would be helpfull.
Thanks
Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
>>
Hello All,
I have been flying my RV-3 with a Sportcraft NAV antenna from day one (eight
years ago). I have a Strobe power supply mounted in the wingtig with the
antenna. The nav light and strobe wires are routed along the front edge of
the Sportcraft antenna, so they will not be a problem.
I flew to Oshkosh with a Cessna 210, one year. On this trip, I found that I
was picking up the VOR stations ten miles earlier (according to my Loran C)
than the Cessna 210 could. The installation in my RV-3 is a typical
installation for the Sportcraft NAV antenna. I don't know if this helps,
when you refer to glideslope sensitivity.
The UHF GS frequency is three times the VHF frequency. A coupler is commonly
used to make the external connection from the VOR antenna coax and to the GS
radio connection.
BTW, Sportcraft has a Marker Beacon Antenna kit that installs on the bottom
surface of the wingtip, two inchs out from the wing skin. This could mount
in the wingtip with the NAV antenna (mounted on the top surface of the
wingtip). The Marker Beacon Antenna kit costs $25 plus S&H, and includes the
coax to run to the cockpit.
The Sportcraft antenna's are available from Aircraft Spruce And Specialty.
Or you can save over $20 on the NAV (or wingtip COM) antenna by contacting me
directly.
(This is a passthrough service for Sportcraft that I am offering)
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
<< How fast should a -4 be with an O-320B1B w/ CS be at 5000 ft 2400 rpm and
wide open throttle? What impact will gear leg fairings and wheel pant
make?
reply to DougR(at)netins.net to save the bandwidth. Thanks
Doug Rozendaal
In Iowa looking for a -4 or -6
>>
Fast enough.
Rod Dykehouse has Van's O-320 w/ CS prop in his RV-4.
Rod was flying to work in his RV-4, IFR at 7,000' when ATC put a Kingair
behind him by 5 minutes (minimum separation). After ATC watched them on the
screen for a few minutes, the Kingair was told by ATC that the experimental
ahead was not a factor. (In other words, the Kingair wasn't gaining on the
RV-4.)
So, how fast is fast enough?
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James & Mary Mc Phee <bluegum(at)ihug.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-list: Cowl Pins |
>Has anyone had any experience using Camloc fasteners (or other twist-lock
>fasteners) to hold on the cowl? They would be easy to get on and off, but
>might not be as secure. I have used them for non-aircraft functions and found
>them strong and versatile. Anyone used them on an RV?
>
>Dann Parks
>dann_parks(at)kteh.pbs.org
>6A HS spar done (yeah, I'm a long way from fitting the cowl...)
>
Dear Dann
>I used Camloc fasteners on the cowl as I couldn't get the piano hinges
right. I would do the same again. I reinforced the areas behind the
Camlocs with 25 thou and glassed them in, then fitted the Camlocs. I have
had no trouble with them whatsoever and can have my top cowl off in 1 1/2
minutes, but more importantly, can put it back on single handed in about 2
minutes. I admit it doesn't look as pretty as the piano hinges but I will
never have a damaged prop either. My RV-6 has been flying over 4 years and
has 280 hrs on it.
James Mc Phee Rv-6 20334 ZK - MRV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 fwd baggage/harmonic dampner |
>>range is 68.7 to 76.8 inches aft of datum. With fuel burn does the C. G.
>>move back further?
>
>>Carrying around a lead weight foreward in the engine compartment I feel is
>>pretty foolish in this situation. And as one writer said, the harmonic
>>dampener would give you an increase in RPM plus weight foreward, ( If
>>really needed )
Ed: IMHO (only), I think the harmonic dampener is a good idea for several
reasons, not just to put your C.G. somewhat further forward. Have you ever
watched an engine with a wood prop without a dampener come to a stop? The
flywheel effect of the wood prop isn't much and the engine seems to "slam to
a stop". Ouch. Makes me shudder every time I see one stop. The dampener
helps "round out" the engine slowing to a stop. It also smooths out the
power pulses to the prop. This may not seem like much but I think it is
easier on the prop and the engine itself. Just my own $0.02.
Michael
RV-4 232 SQ
mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | OMAB-Belted Air Power RV6 featured in "Contact" Magazine |
FYI There is a featured write up of the RV6 that we have been hearing =
about on the list in this months CONTACT! magazine (Nov./Dec. '96). It =
goes into great detail about the project. Al prober(at)iwaynet.net Col. =
Oh. (I used "write up" because I was unsure of how to spell article!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
Listers: There was an article in an issue of Sport Aviation a while back
about the RV-4 Purple Passion that was scooting around from South America.
He had installed two 2 1/2 gallon tanks where a drop floor would be for the
passenger and were plummed into the main tanks, I believe. Five gallons
doesn't seem like much but another 45 minutes fuel at 170 mph is something.
I would have to search my stacks to find which issue. 'Tis fuel in the
cabin, however, and dragging a fuel hose in the cockpit to fuel the tanks.
Michael
RV-4 232 SQ
mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-list: Cowl Pins |
<< Has anyone had any experience using Camloc fasteners (or other twist-lock
fasteners) to hold on the cowl? They would be easy to get on and off, but
might not be as secure. I have used them for non-aircraft functions and
found
them strong and versatile. Anyone used them on an RV? >>
Dann-
Many builders in our area have used camlocs for the top cowling attachment to
the boot cowl in order to avoid using a hinge so far out of column as it is
in that location. These camlocs are quite good in shear and most people have
used them on 3" to 4" centers to serve as a reliable replacement for the
hinge. Get a Skybolt catalog and check out the numbers. E-mail me direct if
needed.
Regards,
Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Schroeder, John" <SCHROEJ(at)corpdc.utc.com> |
----------
From: owner-rv-list
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aerobatics
Date: Sunday, December 01, 1996 11:16PM
>> The pull-up at the beginning of a roll does four things. 1.Slows the
>> aircraft down. This is a property of, but not necessarily a desireable
>> feature of, this proceedure. 2. Keeps the roll positive so that, if you
>> do not have an inverted system, your engine will continue to run and
>> maintain oil pressure throughout the roll. 3. Allows you to use only
>> aileron and rudder with no elevator inputs except for the pull-up and
>> pull-out. It is therefore much easier than a roll which requires
>> constant variation of elevator and rudder displacement. 4. Maintains
>> altitude. In most airplanes a positive G roll started at level flight
>> will end in a steep down line on the pull-out resulting in a significant
>> loss of altitude. In my opinion numbers 2 and 4 are the main reasons for
>> the pull-up with number 4 being the most important.
Number 4 is important in an under-powered aircraft like a C150 (or when
close to the ground as someone else pointed out), but I'd say number 2 is
more important, having inadvertently got -ve Gs in a C150 whilst inverted.
The last thing you need in a stuffed-up manoeuvre is for the engine to quit
on you!
>Exactly... this is a BARREL ROLL, as opposed to a slow roll or an
>aileron roll (or a snap roll for that matter).
>Not according to the guy who taught me to do rolls (both aileron and
>barrel), nor my aerobatics notes. A barrel roll involves continuous pitch
>and roll simultaneously throughout the manoeuvre, which is NOT what the
>question was about. In an aileron roll, the nose is pitched up at the
start,
>then the stick back-pressure released and full aileron applied.
>Barrel rolls are the
>easiest to do, and when done correctly pull no negative g.
>Not for me... I sometimes find myself pulling hard up at the end and
heading
>in the wrong direction. Aileron rolls are much easier.
>Frank.
Frank has it it right on all counts!! A barrel roll is a about describing a
perfect circle around a point on the horizon using a constant changing of
all flight control inputs. Watch the dish-out on the last quarter of the BR.
Right, Frank?
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lsmith(at)coastalnet.com (Louis E. Smith Jr.) |
>
><< How fast should a -4 be with an O-320B1B w/ CS be at 5000 ft 2400 rpm and
> wide open throttle? What impact will gear leg fairings and wheel pant
> make?
> reply to DougR(at)netins.net to save the bandwidth. Thanks
>
> Doug Rozendaal
> In Iowa looking for a -4 or -6
> >>
>Fast enough.
>
>Rod Dykehouse has Van's O-320 w/ CS prop in his RV-4.
>
>Rod was flying to work in his RV-4, IFR at 7,000' when ATC put a Kingair
>behind him by 5 minutes (minimum separation). After ATC watched them on the
>screen for a few minutes, the Kingair was told by ATC that the experimental
>ahead was not a factor. (In other words, the Kingair wasn't gaining on the
>RV-4.)
>
>So, how fast is fast enough?
>
>Jim Ayers
>LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
>LesDrag(at)aol.com
>Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
Jim,
I fly a King Air F-90 for a living which trues out at 255 knots and owned a
RV-4. True the C & E model King Airs are about 220 knot birds. Either Rod
has probably the fastest RV around or that was the slowest King Air in the
country. No offense intended. >
Regards,
Louis Smith
lsmith(at)coastalnet.com
RV-8 #80126 wings
RV-4 #2844 N102LS sold
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Haan <bobh(at)cdac.com> |
>I'm getting to the point where I need to consider what method to use to skin
>the wings.
>
>Any insights or advice any of you can provide would be appreciated.
>
>Mike Wills
Assuming a 4 is similar to a 6, first back-rivet the top skins but do not
rivet the 3 most inboard wing walk ribs closest to the wing root. These
ribs have flanges facing the wing root. Pull these 3 inboard wing walk ribs
out and set them aside until the end. Do back-rivet the 4th rib from the
wing root even though it has flanges facing the wing root. Note, you can
back-rivet the top skins in any order since you have full access at this time.
Rivet the bottom skins beginning with the 5th wing walk rib from the wing
root (flange faces the wing tip)and continuing out to the tip. Rivet the
4th from the wing root wing walk rib to the bottom skin (Top skin already
done when back-riveting.)
>From the root end of the wing, slide in the 3rd from the wing root wing
walk rib and cleco into position and then rivet it to the top and bottom
skins. Next slide in, cleco, and rivet the 2nd wing walk rib from the wing
root to the top and bottom skins, etc.
No pop rivets required.
Note, sliding the 3 ribs closest to the wing root through the wing root
opening into position in the wing assembly past the dimples is easier than
it appears; a little effort and the rib snaps into place without scratching
anything.
Note, you want to make sure that you have very smooth edges on the
lightening holes in the ribs - you forearms will still get bruised but at
least not cut up as you reach in to position the bucking bar.
Bob Haan
bobh(at)cdac.com
Portland, OR
RV6A working on the fuselage frame
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
Pop rivets! We don't need no stinking pop rivits!
I skinned my RV4 wings as called out in the builders manual
(bottom skins go on first followed by the top skins),
and I did not have to use any pop rivets.
You can reach in to the root bay ribs with a little work, as I
think that was one area the manual said you may have to use some
pop rivets.
With two people to do the riveting, I don't think you need any pop rivets.
If you put on the top skin first (as some advocate using back riveting)
then you may have to use some pop rivets on the bottom at the rear spar.
Herman (RV4)
> I'm getting to the point where I need to consider what method to use to skin
> the wings. I want to avoid pop rivets if I can. I've reviewed the Frank
> Justice manual and it seems to be a reasonable approach (although not
> necessarily easy).
>
> Any insights or advice any of you can provide would be appreciated.
>
> Mike Wills
> RV-4 (wings)
> willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
>
><< How fast should a -4 be with an O-320B1B w/ CS be at 5000 ft 2400 rpm and
> wide open throttle? What impact will gear leg fairings and wheel pant
> make?
> reply to DougR(at)netins.net to save the bandwidth. Thanks
>
> Doug Rozendaal
> In Iowa looking for a -4 or -6
> >>
>Fast enough.
>
>Rod Dykehouse has Van's O-320 w/ CS prop in his RV-4.
>
>Rod was flying to work in his RV-4, IFR at 7,000' when ATC put a Kingair
>behind him by 5 minutes (minimum separation). After ATC watched them on the
>screen for a few minutes, the Kingair was told by ATC that the experimental
>ahead was not a factor. (In other words, the Kingair wasn't gaining on the
>RV-4.)
>
>So, how fast is fast enough?
>
>Jim Ayers
>LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
>LesDrag(at)aol.com
>Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
>
I just have to add my 2cents. Three weeks ago on a cross country to Penn. I
was twice asked by controllers if I was a twin, and returning to Buffalo ,I
was asked to slow my approach when I was 10 miles out. I still grin when I
think of it.
Tom Martin
RV-4
180HP warnke prop
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Hurley <phurley(at)wco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-list: Cowl Pins |
aol.com!Vanremog(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
> << Has anyone had any experience using Camloc fasteners (or other twist-lock
> fasteners) to hold on the cowl? They would be easy to get on and off, but
> might not be as secure. I have used them for non-aircraft functions and
> found
> them strong and versatile. Anyone used them on an RV? >>
>
> Dann-
>
> Many builders in our area have used camlocs for the top cowling attachment to
> the boot cowl in order to avoid using a hinge so far out of column as it is
> in that location. These camlocs are quite good in shear and most people have
> used them on 3" to 4" centers to serve as a reliable replacement for the
> hinge. Get a Skybolt catalog and check out the numbers. E-mail me direct if
> needed.
>
> Regards,
> Gary VanRemortel
> vanremog(at)aol.com
I used airlocs (camlocs) to hold most everything on a KC-135.
Patrick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James K. Hurd" <hurd(at)riolink.com> |
| Subject: | Horiz Stab Front Spar |
Help. Maybe I'm missing something here but I can't reconcile the the
instructions for notching the spar channels. Plans say "Trim to fit
R1" and indicate bend line on spar angles as "approximately 5 1/4" from
centerline." Neither Van's nor Justice's instructions address the exact
order of getting this done. Why is not a specific dimension given and
how do I go about being more precise than making my spar channel notch
"approximately" 5 1/4" from centerline (assuming channels butt against
one another, which is not mentioned)?
Thanks in advance for help
Jim Hurd hurd(at)riolink.com
RV-6 empennage Peoples Republic of New Mexico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cliffd(at)mailhost.accesscom.net (Cliff Dominey) |
| Subject: | CG in the solo RV8 |
Greetings to all listers -
As a "wannabe" builder, itching to start on an RV4, I have been reading
what I can find on the new RV8, and have a concern about the CG under solo
conditions. Being mostly a lone wolf in the air, I read with interest in
the May 96 Kitplanes that during some demonstation flights 75 lbs of sand
was strapped to the back seat. "Van had calculated this loading condition
to represent what he would desire as the baggage-free, solo-pilot c.g. for
the production RV-8." (pg 29) I am wondering how this would work - if
dropping off a passenger, I need to remember to have plenty of ballast
available for that rear seat before heading home. Maybe my scuba diving
weight belt could have a new usefulness.
Thanks from a newbie.
Cliff Dominey
cliffd(at)mailhost.accesscom.net
New Orleans, LA
dreamer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Horiz Stab Front Spar |
>Help. Maybe I'm missing something here but I can't reconcile the the
>instructions for notching the spar channels. Plans say "Trim to fit
>R1" and indicate bend line on spar angles as "approximately 5 1/4" from
>centerline." Neither Van's nor Justice's instructions address the exact
>order of getting this done. Why is not a specific dimension given and
>how do I go about being more precise than making my spar channel notch
>"approximately" 5 1/4" from centerline (assuming channels butt against
>one another, which is not mentioned)?
Hi Jim,
Firstly, if your spar sections are like mine, they do NOT meet.
Secondly, can you lapse into jargon like the rest of us and talk HS-603 or
whatever the right part number is? It makes it a little easier to figure out
exactly what piece you're talking about. When you say "notching the spar
channels" are you talking about where you cut the flanges off the front spar
pieces? Or cutting the two pieces of angle aluminium that are eventually
rivetted to the spar web?
Thirdly, check out my Bunny's Guide to RV Building web page at
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/bunny.htm. It covers my own trials &
tribulations and things I discovered (sometimes too late) in building the HS
front spar (and in fact, most of the HS... I'll get round to adding a bit
about skinning, etc RSN). Perhaps you'll have something to add to the page
when you've finished the spar?
Regards,
Frank.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: VOR / Glideslope / Marker Beacon Antennas |
<< Hello All,
I have been flying my RV-3 with a Sportcraft NAV antenna from day one (eight
years ago). I have a Strobe power supply mounted in the wingtig with the
antenna. The nav light and strobe wires are routed along the front edge of
the Sportcraft antenna, so they will not be a problem.
...............
BTW, Sportcraft has a Marker Beacon Antenna kit that installs on the bottom
surface of the wingtip, two inchs out from the wing skin. This could mount
in the wingtip with the NAV antenna (mounted on the top surface of the
wingtip). The Marker Beacon Antenna kit costs $25 plus S&H, and includes
the
coax to run to the cockpit.
The Sportcraft antenna's are available from Aircraft Spruce And Specialty.
Or you can save over $20 on the NAV (or wingtip COM) antenna by contacting
me
directly.
(This is a passthrough service for Sportcraft that I am offering)
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
>>
BTW, Jim is correct in the operation of the Bob Archer Sportcraft antenna.
Bob Archer is retired from TRW where he designed antennna for spacecrafts.
He has the data to back up the performance of the antenna he designed. His
VOR antenna has been around in T-18's since the '60's. They have an
excellent track record. Bob also flies his antenna in his Bellanca. Jim is
passing on these antenna to us at his cost. I know Bob and he will sell to
me at the same price that Jim wants. These are antenna that out perform the
factory ones and cost less.
Gary A. Sobek
Electrical AeroSPACE Engineer
FAA Powerplant Mechanic
EAA Technical Counselor
RV-6 20480 N157GS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg) |
| Subject: | Re: Riveting spars |
At 10:33 AM 11/30/96, The Smiths wrote:
>The options for riveting the main spars and (my perceived) merits of each
>are listed below. I haven't decided which course to follow. I bought a
>steel block machined to accept die sets in the right size for the rivets,
>so backing is "solved" for several options, at least for me. Thanks to
>the Fredrick bunch and the RV forum of three years ago.
>
snip...
>
>2. Using the avery tool and a rivet gun. ADV: Tooling already bought.
> Driving straight is a given.
> DISADV: Need one spar length to one side, and 1/2 spar length to
> other (may require moving the mounted tool).
> Q. Is some mass required under the tool?
The Big mass? I used the garage floor, it was big didn't move. I moved
the Avery tool. I supported the spar at both ends and the side opposite
of where
I was setting the rivet. I did put a sheet of plywood (thin) under the
Avery tool as it would have chewed up the floor surface as I riveted. The
biggest
headache was to clean all of the rivet holes of variprime so the rivets would
seat properly. Still it took me ~40hrs to do, and that's flycutting and flange
tapering.
Doug
ps I would do it again.
>
snip
>
>Comments welcomed.
>
>Ken Smith
>Empanage RV6
>kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com
Doug Bloomberg
RV-6A N399DB (in the womb)
Denver, CO
dougb(at)mail.diac.com (home)
doug(at)boulder.vni.com (work)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg) |
| Subject: | Fuel Caps Cowl Pins |
Howdy,
Two Items.
>Gas caps: A RV-4 flyer noticed that when switch to one tank he was showing
5.5 lbs fuel pressure. When he switched to the other tank the
pressure dropped to 3.5 lbs. After doing a cockpit check of
selector, electric pump, thump the gauge (guage) {take your pick}
he looked at the tanks. The gas cap on the tank showing low
pressure had a loose/improperly installed gas cap. Fuel was
leaking out at a high rate. When he landed he properly placed
the gas cap then did a test flight. The pressure was 5.5 on both
then. Our best guesstimate is that there is one heck of a low
pressure area at the gas cap, air flow and all that. The air
was not plugged.
Bottom Line: Double check the placement of your gas caps before flight,
Also... A bad O ring could cause the same problems.
>Cowl Pins: I heard of a fellow who chewed up a prop because the cowl
pins walked out and engaged the prop while it was spinning. He
had bent his pins back and used a screw to hold them in place.
I understand the pin broke at the bend.
FIX: I have seen several RV's with a metal plate that is screwed
into the cowl which blocks the pin from coming out. You can shape
the plate into some very fancy shapes which look very nice.
Doug Bloomberg
RV-6A N399DB (in the womb)
Denver, CO
dougb(at)mail.diac.com (home)
doug(at)boulder.vni.com (work)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg) |
| Subject: | Storage RV-4 in the cowl |
Howdy,
My friend Larry uses the cowl cheeks for storage. He modified the cowl cheeks
to hold his tie downs, wheel chocks, and gust locks. (Larry built a Glasair so
he is not afraid to use fiberglas) What he did to his cheeks was. Cut off and
then reverse the mounting flanges, so it would look pretty. Then cut out an
access panel on each cheek, exactly as you would for the oil filler door on the
cowl. He used a couple of camlocks to hold them in place. Pretty slick!
make sure you have a couple of drain holes in the bottom as they are not water
tight.
Doug Bloomberg
RV-6A N399DB (in the womb)
Denver, CO
dougb(at)mail.diac.com (home)
doug(at)boulder.vni.com (work)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Hoatson <lhoatson(at)deltanet.com> |
| Subject: | Frank Justice Manual |
What is the "Frank Justice Manual" I keep seeing references to?
Is is available if I wanted a copy?
Larry
Restoring C170A N9948A
Looking forword to RV6
lhoatson(at)deltanet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
<< Jim,
I fly a King Air F-90 for a living which trues out at 255 knots and owned a
RV-4. True the C & E model King Airs are about 220 knot birds. Either Rod
has probably the fastest RV around or that was the slowest King Air in the
country. No offense intended. >
Regards,
Louis Smith
lsmith(at)coastalnet.com
RV-8 #80126 wings
RV-4 #2844 N102LS sold >>
Hello Again,
I'm fairly certain that Rod doesn't have the fastest RV-4. I don't have any
reason to doubt Rod's story, either.
Maybe the static/pitot system on the Kingair's should be checked for
accuracy. :-)
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | RV-list: Cowl Pins |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE1C9.D5B67040
----------
From: Patrick Hurley[SMTP:wco.com!phurley(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 1996 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-list: Cowl Pins
Pat Hurley wrote:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I used airlocs (camlocs) to hold most everything on a KC-135.
Patrick
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You built a KC-135???????
Al (Couldn't resist!)
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE1C9.D5B67040
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE1C9.D5B67040--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
| Subject: | Re: Riveting spars |
>At 10:33 AM 11/30/96, The Smiths wrote:
>
>The options for riveting the main spars and (my perceived) merits of each
>are listed below. I haven't decided which course to follow.
>Ken Smith
>Empanage RV6
>kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com
Ken,
My $.02 on this. Are you a meticulous builder? I am not insinuating that my
building is any better than anyone else but I seem to find that it takes me
about 4 times as long as everyone else to do anything on my plane.
Thus 50 hours (Vans and others estimate of time to do the spars) times my
factor of 4 divided into the $900 that Phlogiston gets to do the spars means
my time would have to be worth less than $4.25/hr.
Needless to say I paid the $900. The workmanship is great and the anodizing
alone is probably worth a good deal. I would recommend this to anyone.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Kelley <72466.1355(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Flap Hienge position.... |
My drawing is real fuzzy (bad copy) in the area where the flap hienge mounts to
the wing.
Can someone tell me if the hienge goes on top of the flap brace or between the
skin and the flap brace?
If I dare to guess, it looks like it would go on the top of the flap brace. The
flap brace
would be countersunk in order to accept the dimples in the bottom main skin.
Kinda like the flap
side half of the hienge.
Thanks in advance!
James Kelley (trying to finish the wings in Dec 96, fuse is on the way!)
72466.1355(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Hurley <phurley(at)wco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-list: Cowl Pins |
Allan W. Mojzisik wrote:
>
> ----------
> From: Patrick Hurley[SMTP:wco.com!phurley(at)matronics.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 1996 8:32 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-list: Cowl Pins
>
> Pat Hurley wrote:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I used airlocs (camlocs) to hold most everything on a KC-135.
> Patrick
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> You built a KC-135???????
>
> Al (Couldn't resist!)
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnef
> Encoding: base64
You could say that.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
| Subject: | Re: Frank Justice Manual |
Larry,
If you have internet access it is available at John Hovans web page at:
http://rv.austin.apple.com/jhovan/home.html
This is a supplement on the construction of an RV-6 and goes into quite a
bit more detail than the factory manual.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>What is the "Frank Justice Manual" I keep seeing references to?
>
>Is is available if I wanted a copy?
>Larry
>Restoring C170A N9948A
> Looking forword to RV6
>lhoatson(at)deltanet.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Schroeder, John" <SCHROEJ(at)corpdc.utc.com> |
George Kilishek:
Give me a call sometime. I believe our paths have crossed in the past -
probably in the Air Force.
John Schroeder
202 336-7489
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Kelley <72466.1355(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: wing skins, Flap bracket..... |
Second question of the day!
Thought this would be a good time to ask this one, seeing the message about back
riveting the main skins.
According to F. Justice Instructions and the other messages I have seen on this
subject. You are to:
1. Leave out the first four inboard ribs.
2. Rivet the top skins on by back riveting.
3. Rivet the flap brace onto the rear spar.
4. Rivet the bottom skins on, and insert the inboard ribs as you come to them.
Wa La, it's done!, Hummmm?
I just want to know how do you rivet the the first four inboard ribs to the rear
spar with the flap brace in the way?
Did I miss something somewhere?
James Kelley (pondering a mystery!)
72466.1355(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | twg(at)wink.ho.lucent.com (Tom Goeddel(x5278)) |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Hienge position.... |
>> Can someone tell me if the hienge goes on top of the flap brace or between
the
>> skin and the flap brace?
>>
>> If I dare to guess, it looks like it would go on the top of the flap brace.
...
That's correct.
Tom Goeddel
RV-6a (starting fuse)
goeddel(at)lucent.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Gottschalk <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Pre-punched, dash 8, and 6Q experience |
RV Listers,
EAA Chapter 524, Frederick Maryland is currently planning our eight annual
(well, we missed one, big deal) RV Forum for the Friday and Saturday before
Sun & Fun. I am working to help assemble a group of presenters for the
Forum's program. Recently we lost our Chapter President and resident expert
on all facets of RV construction to better opportunities in Texas, and those
of us currently building lack the new world skills of the pre-punched, -8
and 6Q builders. We are looking for folks with these kits (or finished
airplanes?) to share your experiences with our forum attendees. Anyone
interested in participating please contact me directly off the list.
Thanks,
Gene Gottschalk
EAA Chapter 524
geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov
(301) 865-3432
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNES_ERIC(at)Tandem.COM |
| Subject: | CG in the solo RV8 |
Maybe I'm not understanding the issue, without reading the rest of the
referenced article, but my take on what was quoted is this: Van placed
75lbs. in the back of the *PROTOTYPE* RV8 in order to put the c.g. at
(and simulate the handling of) the PRODUCTION VERSION of the RV8. In
this way the writer was able to "test" what the production RV8 handling
will be like, baggage-free, solo-pilot.
It may beg the opposite question of the production version though - if
someone puts an 0-320 fixed pitch out front (I plan on the big engine
and C/S myself), and a 250lb. in the back seat (no baggage 'cause that
can always go in the forward compartment), what happens, especially as
fuel burns?
Can't remember what's going into the #2 RV8, ad 320 or 360, but it's
supposed to have a fixed pitched prop. Anyone else know more (about the
-8 that is)?
EB #80131 empennage
barnes_eric(at)tandem.com
------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT --------
SENT 12-03-96 FROM SMTPGATE (cliffd(at)mailhost.accesscom.net)
Greetings to all listers -
As a "wannabe" builder, itching to start on an RV4, I have been reading
what I can find on the new RV8, and have a concern about the CG under solo
conditions. Being mostly a lone wolf in the air, I read with interest in
the May 96 Kitplanes that during some demonstation flights 75 lbs of sand
was strapped to the back seat. "Van had calculated this loading condition
to represent what he would desire as the baggage-free, solo-pilot c.g. for
the production RV-8." (pg 29) I am wondering how this would work - if
dropping off a passenger, I need to remember to have plenty of ballast
available for that rear seat before heading home. Maybe my scuba diving
weight belt could have a new usefulness.
Thanks from a newbie.
Cliff Dominey
cliffd(at)mailhost.accesscom.net
New Orleans, LA
dreamer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Hienge position.... |
>My drawing is real fuzzy (bad copy) in the area where the flap hienge mounts to
>the wing.
>Can someone tell me if the hienge goes on top of the flap brace or between the
>skin and the flap brace?
>
>If I dare to guess, it looks like it would go on the top of the flap brace. The
>flap brace
>would be countersunk in order to accept the dimples in the bottom main skin.
>Kinda like the flap
>side half of the hienge.
>
>Thanks in advance!
>James Kelley (trying to finish the wings in Dec 96, fuse is on the way!)
>72466.1355(at)compuserve.com
>
>
The hinge goes on top of the flap brace.
Scott Gesele N506RV
scottg(at)villagenet.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: CG in the solo RV8 |
Van wrote about the CG in the RVator. I think the bottom line was
that he found a problem in how they had measured or calculated the
CG and upon the proper recalculation the CG was fine. He knew the
plane was flying fine and was confused by the CG numbers and on
getting to the bottom of the problem found they had made an error.
Some RV8 builder can probably get you the date of the RVator article.
It was a few months back.
Herman
dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
> Greetings to all listers -
>
> As a "wannabe" builder, itching to start on an RV4, I have been reading
> what I can find on the new RV8, and have a concern about the CG under solo
> conditions. Being mostly a lone wolf in the air, I read with interest in
> the May 96 Kitplanes that during some demonstation flights 75 lbs of sand
> was strapped to the back seat. "Van had calculated this loading condition
> to represent what he would desire as the baggage-free, solo-pilot c.g. for
> the production RV-8." (pg 29) I am wondering how this would work - if
> dropping off a passenger, I need to remember to have plenty of ballast
> available for that rear seat before heading home. Maybe my scuba diving
> weight belt could have a new usefulness.
>
> Thanks from a newbie.
>
> Cliff Dominey
> cliffd(at)mailhost.accesscom.net
> New Orleans, LA
>
> dreamer
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tomdalrymple(at)VNET.IBM.COM |
As I contemplate building another RV, I am interested in the actual performance
of real world RV's. I built a 200+HP RV4 and really enjoyed the power. Now I
am thinking about building a RV6, and wonder if the extra horsepower was what
I enjoyed, or did it really make much difference. Hopefully we have enough
flying RV's out there that could send me some performance numbers that I could
use to come up with an "average" performance level. If anybody willing would
e-mail me directly the following information about your RV, I will put together
all the information and present it to the group. Of particular interest is
any engine/propellor changes on the same airframe and auto conversions.
RV type________ Engine_____HP_____Propellor________ Empty weight_________
Max TAIS at 7,500 with minimum load _________RPM's that correspond________
Rate of climb at 7,500 with minimum load at 125mph_______RPM's ___________
Please e-mail me at: tomdalrymple(at)vnet.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com |
| Subject: | Re: Riveting spars |
Mike,
The new spars are essentially pre-drilled, pre-tapered and temporarily
assembled. All you have to do is take it apart, prime and rivet it together.
This includes the RV4. I opted for the standard spar for this reason.
I would like to tell you that I had my spars done in a short period of time.
However, it turns out that Phlogiston boo-booed on my spars and shipped me
fuselage bulkheads from another kit. So, until that's resolved, they are on
hold.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dann_Parks(at)KTEH.pbs.org (Dann Parks) |
| Subject: | Re: Horiz Stab Front Spar |
>>Plans say "Trim to fit
>>R1" and indicate bend line on spar angles as "approximately 5 1/4" from
>>centerline." Neither Van's nor Justice's instructions address the exact
>>order of getting this done.
Hi Jim,
I just did this and had the same questions. To me the only way to "trim to
fit" was to set up the flat jig to hold the spars at the correct length
without cutting the tongues yet. This will leave a gap between the spars. I
then clamped and drilled the channels into place on the spars, still without
the tongues cut. Once the channels were in place you can mark where the edges
of the tongue should be based on how the tongue edges are suppose to line up
with the cuts in the channels. The holes in the spar web will be there as you
cut the tongues so be careful to leave proper space between the holes and the
edge of the material. This worked great for me. Good luck.
Another hint, be careful in bending the channels. Don't bend them against a
sharp edge (like a vise), use a wood block with a 1/8" radius. I don't think
this channel material likes to be bent sharply.
Dann Parks
dann_parks(at)kteh.pbs.org
6A tail in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.co.intel.com> |
| Subject: | wing skins, Flap bracket..... |
Text item:
>4. Rivet the bottom skins on, and insert the inboard ribs as you come to them.
>I just want to know how do you rivet the the first four inboard ribs
>to the rear
>spar with the flap brace in the way?
This can be easy or hard depending on where the
lightening holes are in your flap brace, what
kind of bucking bars you have, and what kind of
rivet sets you have. You will probably have to
drive some rivets from the inside and some from
the outside. You can also use the same kind of
pop rivets that are used to hold the forward end
of the ribs to the main spar.
FKJ
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Subject: Re: RV-List: wing skins, Flap bracket.....
From: James Kelley <CompuServe.COM!72466.1355(at)matronics.com>
Date: 04 Dec 96 12:55:14 EST
ay.jf.intel.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA13497 for | From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Horiz Stab Front Spar |
> Help. Maybe I'm missing something here but I can't reconcile the the
> instructions for notching the spar channels. Plans say "Trim to fit
> R1" and indicate bend line on spar angles as "approximately 5 1/4" from
> centerline." Neither Van's nor Justice's instructions address the exact
> order of getting this done. Why is not a specific dimension given and
> how do I go about being more precise than making my spar channel notch
> "approximately" 5 1/4" from centerline (assuming channels butt against
> one another, which is not mentioned)?
The idea is that the total spar length must be a specific length -- see the
plans. The two parts may not exactly butt together, depending upon minor
variances in Van's bending process. If the bend is too close to the
centerline, then the skin will not fully overlap both the root and tip
ribs.
When I did mine, I just used the 5 1/4", and it worked pretty good. Turns
out that just the tiniest smidgeon more would have been perfect. Maybe
someone else has a better answer...
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
14190 47th Ave N.
Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Bethune <chuckb(at)digital.net> |
| Subject: | RV-3 Preview Plans For Sale. |
Have the subject preview plans for sale. $25.00 plus shipping.
Have decided on the -6A.
Thanks,
Chuck Bethune
chuckb(at)digital.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) said:
>I'm getting to the point where I need to consider what method to use to skin
>the wings. I want to avoid pop rivets if I can. I've reviewed the Frank
>Justice manual and it seems to be a reasonable approach (although not
>necessarily easy).
The only part I want to comment on is the wing-walk ribs. First,
understand that I riveted the top skins first. I also did the 'slip the
four inboard ribs out, rivet the rest down, then slip them in and rivet
them one-at-a-time' trick. It was so darned much trouble I decided that on
my second wing, I wasn't going to do that even if it meant pop rivets. I
had a really difficult time riveting those inboard four ribs to the rear
spar. The flap brace was in the way.
When I started on the second wing, I decided to go ahead and rivet the
wing-walk ribs to the spars along with the rest. I figured I would reach
in through the lightning holes to buck the rivets I could, and had resigned
myself to using a pop rivet here and there where I could not reach. Lo and
behold, I was able to reach them all! Yes, it was a bit of a struggle, and
yes one or two on each rib was REALLY hard to get to through the lighting
holes, but I did it.
Even if you have to resort to a pop rivet here and there, it's on the
bottom of the wing. Nobody's gonna see 'em down there anyway.
(If you were in the Phoenix, AZ area Mike, I'd be happy to come over and
put my arm through the contortions again.)
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
Trimming the canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OMAB-Belted Air Power RV6 featured in "Contact" |
Magazine
>FYI There is a featured write up of the RV6 that we have been hearing about
on the list in this months CONTACT! magazine (Nov./Dec. '96). It goes into
great detail about the project. Al prober(at)iwaynet.net Col. Oh. (I used
"write up" because I was unsure of how to spell article!)
>
>
I've updated my web page with pics/info on the OMAPB RV-6A.
Rob Acker / RV-6Q / N164RA / Southern California
E-mail: r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com
RV-6Q Project: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker
(last updated 12/4/96)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First flight |
Congratulations, I hope to be making a similar announcement in the Spring
Joh Cocker, Newmarket, Ontario.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael A. Pilla" <pilla(at)exit109.com> |
>Listers: There was an article in an issue of Sport Aviation a while back
>about the RV-4 Purple Passion that was scooting around from South America.
>He had installed two 2 1/2 gallon tanks where a drop floor would be for the
>passenger and were plummed into the main tanks, I believe. Five gallons
-- snip --
Claudio has new wings with double the amount of fuel. They are
separate with two fuel filler caps on each side. I have not checked
his plumbing/switching arrangement, though. If anyone want to know
more, e-mail me and I'll ask Claudio.
Mike Pilla
RV4, #2866, drilled gear legs and brake flange
Michael Pilla
pilla(at)exit109.com
v: (908) 566-7604
f: (908) 566-7936
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Goeddel <tgoeddel(at)monmouth.com> |
| Subject: | F-605 and seat belt anchors |
Hi all,
I'm working on the F-605 bulkhead on my -6a and am getting hung up on how
the outboard seatbelt anchors fit to the bulkhead. It looks like the
outboard seatbelt anchor has to be positioned laterally on the F-605C bar
between the flange of the F-616 rib (16 3/8" from C/L) and the bend in the
F-605C (18 1/2" from C/L). The seat belt anchors (with the 1/8" spacing) are
2 5/16" across.
Two questions...
1. Do you trim the seat belt anchors to fit in the smaller than 2 5/16"
space available, or do you do something else?
2. It looks to me like the bolt attaching the outboard anchor will hit the
flange on the F-605D (the vertical piece of the bulkhead) which is at 18"
from C/L. The seat belt anchor is supposed to be centered at 17 1/4" from
C/L. What do you do to avoid that flange? Where does the outboard bolt go
relative to the flange on the F-605D?
I'm probably missing something obvious since no one else seems to have
mentioned this before. I'm just getting a little cross-eyed staring at it at
this point and wanted to get another opinion (or two or three) before I do
anything irreversible.
Thanks in advance.
Tom Goeddel
RV-6a (my tail will have to park in the antique and classic section at
Oshkosh at the rate I'm going...)
goeddel(at)lucent.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Hartmann <hartmann(at)sound.net> |
>I'm getting to the point where I need to consider what method to use to skin
>the wings. I want to avoid pop rivets if I can. I've reviewed the Frank
We had no difficulty riviting the bottom skins on first per the old manual
then riveted on the top skins after fitting the flap and aileron. We did
not need to remove the wing walk ribs and the skins look great. It is
slightly uncomfortable reaching through the lightening holes to get at the
aftmost few rivets, but it can be done. I duct taped a small bucking bar to
the first two fingers of the hand I was using to buck the rivets (different
hand for each wing). Before doing any riveting, why not cleco the skins in
place and see if you can reach each of the clecos with your fingers by
reaching through the lightening holes. I found I could. If you can reach
the cleco you can buck the rivet.
Having said all that, if we build another one it will have pop rivets in the
wing walk per the plans. We only did the solid rivets because I had already
drilled the #40 holes at the reduced spacing because I didn't pay close
enough attention to the plans in the first place. It might have been a
happy mistake though because the wings really do look great.
enjoy
- Mike
hartmann(at)sound.net
http://www.sound.net/~hartmann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
Fellow RVers,
I went flying yesterday after sealing some air leaks to look for some
more. It was 31 F at 6,500 feet. I blocked off about 1/3 of the air inlet
with duct tape and this enabled me to get my oil temp up to 190 F. On the
way home, I removed the duct tape and could barely get the oil temp over
160. CHTs were 350 to 375 on 3 & 4 and 325 on 1 & 2. I also have a baffle
the width of the cylinder and about 4" high in front of cylinders 1 & 2.
With the inlets blocked off, I did have to reduce the ROC to keep CHTs
within reason. Once at cruise, everything evened out fine.
I taped over the major leaks that I had, on the cover on the 604 bulkhead
and around the seat pan/604 juncture. I also found air entering around each
seat belt anchor. A major leak occurs around the slot cut out in the 605
bulkhead for the manual flap arms. Electric flap guys will not have this
problem. I don't have any leaks around the tip-up canopy.
The remaining leaks seem to be coming from the baggage area. I'm getting
a lot of air through each "V" on the baggage bulkhead and some air where "J"
channels and longerons pass through the baggage bulkhead area. This brings
up a question. I need some ideas on how to seal these areas. A type of
caulk for around the longerons pass through would work. I'd like to find
something that adhears well but is not a mess to remove in the spring. It
must stay in place so as not to disappear into inacessable places and
hopefully, be white, to match with the interior. The other problem is how
to seal the "Vs" in the bagage bulkhead. Something kind of elegant. I
don't want it to look like a farmer did it. (No flames, please. I'm in
agriculture, so I can say it.) Any ideas? Thanks.
On a happy note. I outran a well built RV-4 with a 150 hp engine,
yesterday. The four is using a Prince prop and I have the Sensenich FP
metal. I was turing 75-100 rpms less than the four.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles H Fink <CHFINK(at)envc.sandia.gov> |
| Subject: | ELT Antenna Placement |
I received several responses from my original post. Thanks
to all who responded.
I was looking for a direct quote from the FARs or TSO which
no one had but Gil Alexander was right on with
>>>>>I would believe that these (mounting) instructions
actually came from the TSO, and I would also venture that
"properly installed" would mean installed to the
manufacturer's instructions -- how else would you define
it??<<<<<<
I am somewhat anal where regs are concerned. The FAA
can cause you a lot of grief. 99% of the people at the FAA
are reasonable and work with you but look out for that 1%
remimber Bob Hoover. If you know the regs you can at least
point them out to an FAA inspector should he question your
AC. Anyway, I contacted the FAA Flight Standards District
Office in Abq. and got the same answer Gill gave. The ELT
manufacture defines a "proper installation" required for their
ELT to meet the TSO. The ACK must have an external
antenna to meet regulations.
You may want to consider this when you select an ELT. The
ECB does not require an external antenna as BA RV6A
N85TX and Bob Skinner pointed out.
What am I going to do? Mount the next one in the baggage
compartment and plead ignorance should the feds catch it.
This is not the ideal situation but I figure a week signal from
a poorly mounted antenna is better than the output from a
broken one.
Charles Fink, RV-6 N548CF, flying
chfink(at)envc.sandia.gov
Albuquerque, NM, USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
| Subject: | Electronic Ignition |
I am about to make the big bucks decision on ordering an engine,
and am very much interested in an electronic iginition system for it.
Van's price for the Lasar sytem is $1500. Does anybody know
prices on the other systems and comparitive features and quality
comparisons as well?
Also, if anyone has the phone #'s for any of the sources I would
appreciate it. Thank you!
On another subject; Has anyone visited the question of raising
the rudder pedals?
BTW the latest price increase takes the price on the 0-360-A1A to
$19,300. No wonder these RV's are commanding such prices in the
marketplace.
Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q
rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us
Seattle area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BDStobbe <70743.2727(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Sealing cockpit |
Bob wrote:
>> The remaining leaks seem to be coming from the baggage area. I'm getting a
lot of air through each "V" on the baggage bulkhead and some air where "J"
channels and longerons pass through the baggage bulkhead area. This brings up
a
question. I need some ideas on how to seal these areas. A type of caulk for
around the longerons pass through would work. I'd like to find something that
adhears well but is not a mess to remove in the spring.<<
I had this problem around an insert in my fireplace and wanted something with
similar properties to block off the air from leaking in. What I found at the
local hardware store was something called rope caulk. This stuff comes in a
long continuous length and is about 3/16 inch in diameter. It is just sticky
and moldable enough to be pressed into openings, and you can follow complex
curves and shapes very easily. In addition, it can be easily removed with no
material left behind. I don't know if it will work in this application or not
but it's cheap and you might want to take a look at it.
>>The other problem is how to seal the "Vs" in the bagage bulkhead. Something
kind of elegant. I don't want it to look like a farmer did it.<<
Could you use the type of weatherstripping that is very light, open-celled foam?
You can get it at stores like Home Depot and it comes with one side
stickybacked. This stuff is very light and compresses with very little force.
I would remove the V'd material and apply it to the front of the F606 so that it
follows the edge of the V'd material. When you reinstall the V'd material the
foam should compress and expand with the V's in the material and seal off the
openings (maybe) and be invisible to the naked farmer's eye.
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6 N508 reserved
smashing gajillions of rivets installing fuselage skins
oh my achin back...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Fritz <75303.1623(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Why Car Engines Won't Fly |
No, that's not my opinion, that's part of the title of an article in the Jan 97
issue of Air&Space magazine.
It's 10 pages of the history of attempts at putting car engines into a/c and why
it won't work. Note that I said "won't work", not "didn't work". The only
caveat here is that it deals primarily with 300+hp applications so maybe there's
room for us.
However, it does have a relevant discussion of the differences between the
automobile application and the a/c app.
Power Struggle, Why Car Engines Won't Fly by Don Sherman
Read and enjoy, flame, discuss, dismiss, whatever.
Bob Fritz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | alex.peterson(at)deltec.com |
>Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:12:15 CST-6
| Subject: | Seat Belt Anchor Placement |
Tom and listers,
Regarding seat belt anchors on 6's:
If we number the anchors from inboard out, we would have 1L, 2L, 3L and =20
4L and the corresponding right ones. I found interference between anchor =20=
=20
#3 and the seat rib flange. This rib has staggered flanges, and I cut =20
off the flange which interferes with the anchor, and replaced it with a =20
.063 by 3/4 angle. This new flange faces outboard, the opposite of the =20
original flange. The anchor sandwiches between this new flange and 605. =20
This eliminates the need to trim the anchor. Anchors #4 are positioned, =20
on my plane, just inboard enough to clear the joggle in the 1/8" strap. =20
Hope this helps.
Fr: Alex Peterson RV6A fuse skin
alex.peterson(at)deltec.com
12/5/96
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terrel L. Stern" <tstern(at)brainerd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electronic Ignition |
Light Speed Engineering has a new system available. It is called the
Plasma aircraft ignition system and is supposed to be an improvement of
their previous systems. Price is $980 for a four cylinder system
complete with all components, mounting brackets and magneto hole cover.
Phone is 805-933-3299. Current delivery is about 4 weeks. They will
fax you an information sheet. I ordered a system today and would be
glad to give a report as I install it.
Terry Stern
tstern(at)brainerd.net
RV-4 flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: VOR / Glideslope / Marker Beacon Antennas |
<<
Due to different frequeny bands, VHF vs UHF, I would not think
that one antenna would serve both VOR and GS.
Bob Moore
N4WZP
>>
With a splitter (multiplexer) one antenna suffices nicely for the nav and GS
receivers. Cut it for the nav band and let the GS fend for itself (vswr
mismatch hardly matters in a receive application.) I have this setup on my
plane, and while it hasn't flown yet, the Terra avionics were working fine in
this configuration when they came out of a Piper, so I expect similar results
in the RV.
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
N4DLN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
Thanks to all who replied. Looks like a lot of different ways of doing this.
When I get the wing skinned I will let you know which method I chose and how
it worked out.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electronic Ignition |
<< I am about to make the big bucks decision on ordering an engine,
and am very much interested in an electronic iginition system for it.
Van's price for the Lasar sytem is $1500. Does anybody know
prices on the other systems and comparitive features and quality
comparisons as well? >>
Well, I for one, after researching the various systems out there, have
ordered and received the Jeff Rose ElectroAire electronic ignition. It will
be some time before I hang the engine (maybe a month or more) and even longer
til I have any flight data, but I was convinced by Jeff's references (Burt
Rutan, Boomerang; some other guy with a Lancair IV-P) and his money back
guarantee that the gamble was fairly safe. The price is $785.00 and there
are no sensors to install on the flywheel (unless you specifically want to go
with that style). The unit I purchased has a sensor that bolts into the mag
hole- neat and simple.
My only regret so far: I didn't heed my own gut instincts to get on board
with Bob Nucholls' Aero Electric Connection for bulletproof electrical system
design before doing my panel and wiring... with one of the mags replaced by
an electronic ignition, I suddenly care alot more about any possible
scenarios where the alternator goes off line and the battery starts to wind
down......
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James & Mary Mc Phee <bluegum(at)ihug.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Electronic Ignition |
> Van's price for the Lasar sytem is $1500. Does anybody know
>prices on the other systems and comparitive features and quality
>comparisons as well?
> Also, if anyone has the phone #'s for any of the sources I would
>appreciate it. Thank you!
>
>Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q
>rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us
>Seattle area
>
Dear Ron,
I confess to being a big fan of Klaus Savier's Light Speed system. It was
well proven on Jon Johanson's 2 trips Round the World and I use it also. I
have several items in this list about it. His latest release is called
Plasma and is avilable for $ 980.
Contact Klaus at 805-933-3299 Fax 805-525-0199 P O Box 549 Santa Paula CA
93061 and tell him I recommended hie system.
James Mc Phee RV-6 ZK-MRV S/No 20334>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
| Subject: | Re: Sealing cockpit |
>>Fellow RVers,
>> I went flying yesterday after sealing some air leaks to look for some
>>more. (SNIP) I'd like to find
>>something that adhears well but is not a mess to remove in the spring. =
It
>>must stay in place so as not to disappear into inacessable places and
>>hopefully, be white, to match with the interior. The other problem is =
how
>>to seal the "Vs" in the bagage bulkhead. Something kind of elegant. =
(SNIP)
>>Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
>>
>>
We've used bathtub caulk with good results and our "Super
Soundproofing" Mat works for large area cracks....
Our booklet, "How to Soundproof the Light Aircraft" has info about
this and other stuff too. =20
Send me email with your address for a free printed copy or send email
to soundprf(at)pdsig.com for a text file of it returned by our
auto-responder: infobot.
Bill Nash
=20
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | Advice needed - setting up a new engine from VANS |
I just received a new lycoming 0-360 A1A from VANS and it has the prop
governor pad on it. This pad has 4 bolts sticking up with about 30 washers
on each bolt with a cover. Do I take this whole unit off and make a cover
or can I just take the hose off of it (plug the hole with a bolt cap) and
leave it as is !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | Advice needed on Sportcraft Antenna |
Does anybody know if you need a sportcraft nav antenna in each wingtip, or
only 1 in 1 wingtip ? Also, even though the glideslope frequency band is
different, if I use a splitter will it still do a good enough job picking up
the glideslope when I use the sportcraft antenna in the wingtip ( since the
antenna is used for receive only) .
Thanks
Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
Project status: Almost ready for the airport: Estimating first flight
Februrary 97.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: Sealing cockpit |
Bob:
> I need some ideas on how to seal these areas. A type of
>caulk for around the longerons pass through would work. I'd like to find
>something that adhears well but is not a mess to remove in the spring. It
>must stay in place so as not to disappear into inacessable places and
>hopefully, be white, to match with the interior.
There are several products used in the automotive indistry, but most of
them are permenant. Some that I know about are:
3M 08800 QL Coating/Sprayable Seam Sealer
3M 08305 Ultrapro Two-Part Seam Sealer - Self-Leveling
3M 08306 Ultrapro Two-Part Seal Sealer - HEavy Bodied
3M 08405 Flexiclear Body Seam Sealer
3M 08500 All-Around Autobody Sealant
I'd go with the 08500 All-Around Autobody Sealant. It is white, and is in
a cartridge that fits a caulking gun. Any professional automotive paint
shop shuld carry this stuff.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
Trimming the canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GHLX34A(at)prodigy.com (MR GEORGE T KILISHEK) |
| Subject: | Need help- Pro Seal |
Just received a container of Pro-Seal and accelerant from Vans. The
efficient shipping dept. put duct tape over the lid to ensure against
leakage in transit. It covered the instructions for use on the paper
label. When the tape was removed, so were the instructions.
Can anyone give me the recipe for mixing and any other instructions
for using this stuff?
Thanks in advance.
George Kilishek
RV-8 #80006.
Finished wing ribs, waiting for spar components.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MiDiBu <midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com> |
I bought a Sears "Industrial" respirator today. I read the uses on the NSHA
and NIOSH labels. It says that it is approved for organics vapors, mists of
paints, lacquers, and enamels, and a bunch of other irrelevant stuff
(asbestos...).
Hovever, in hindsight, I searched the archives for more knowledge and I
found this quote: "The only acceptable respirators
are those rated for Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs)."
I intend to use the respirator for priming. Acetone, MEK (only if really
necessary) and Vari-Prime in a well ventilated environment. It seems to me
that this respirator would be fine (and someone will point out - overpriced).
I did notice, however, that there is another warning: "Do not use this
respirator for any substance which can cause an allergic reaction, such as
polyurethane coatings which contain isocyanates". I immediately thought of
Imron. There was a builder/restorer here who died from spraying Imron
without any respirator. The stuff can kill you.
But what about the Vari-Prime? I am a long way from needing Imron. I am
going to use Vari-Prime. Doesn't it use isocyanates?
BTW, I went to Sears to buy a bench-vice. The lady that I asked directions
for was obviously temporary Christmas help. You can't imagine her shock and
my really red-face when I realized that I had just asked her, "M'am do you
have any vices?"
Mike Weller RV 80187 (under construction)
midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com (preferred) or mike.weller(at)msfc.nasa.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Advice needed on Sportcraft Antenna |
<< Does anybody know if you need a sportcraft nav antenna in each wingtip, or
only 1 in 1 wingtip ? Also, even though the glideslope frequency band is
different, if I use a splitter will it still do a good enough job picking up
the glideslope when I use the sportcraft antenna in the wingtip ( since the
antenna is used for receive only) .
Thanks
Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
>>
Hello All,
One Sportcraft NAV antenna is all that is required for one NAV radio.
If you have two NAV radio's, you can use a splitter (which is what is
normally done) or an antenna for each radio.
There is a coupler that is normally used to provide the GS signal from the
NAV antenna coax to the GS radio connection.
I understand that the splitter and coupler are common items available from
most radio shops. Perhaps Bob Nichols can identify part numbers??
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder (1988 Sportcraft antenna)
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bennett(at)healey.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: Electronic Ignition |
>On another subject; Has anyone visited the question of raising
> the rudder pedals?
I have the rudder pedals able to be raised in 3/8" increments to
about 1 1/2". I've cut the centre bracket and put flanges on with
holes at 3/8" pitch. I can shim under the plastic bearing blocks with
3/8" plastic or aluminium shims.
Peter
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 working inside fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
Mike ,
Sould like the one you got well do the job for Vari prime. A quick test is if
you can smell the paint with the mask on it is not working , other then that
you sould be ok . Be safe ....george Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sealing cockpit |
61-62,64,66-67,69-79
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Bob, and fellow listers,
As far as cabin air leaks are concerned, I found that MOST of the cold
air comes into the cabin via the aileron push rod fuselage holes, and the
flap actuator holes. These areas seem to be cabin air PRESSURE sources.
It also seems that the spar box area leaks fall into this category. I
don't have any firewall or air vent air leaks (another cabin PRESSURE
source), and my canopy seals tight. The heating system also is a cabin
PRESSURE source.
The baggage compartment rear bulkhead leakage may be PRESSURE or
VACUUM, depending on your particular aircraft. Mine appears to be a
slight VACUUM source, so I temporarily plugged all the holes with foam. I
haven't as yet put a flexible seal on the elevator push rod where it goes
through this bulkhead (VACUUM leak).
Canopy seal problems will aggravate the cold air leakage problem, as
it results in a lower air pressure (VACUUM source) in the cockpit area,
and basically sucks in the cold air from all outside air PRESSURE sources
. The hot air source pressure helps reduce this low pressure, but, unless
you have a hot air source volume that exceeds the suction caused by the
canopy, it won't help.
First get the canopy seal leaks minimized. Then find ways to "seal"
holes where the ailerons exit the fuselage. I used a piece of thin vinal
(waterproof) cloth obtained from a local fabric shop. Conical "boots"
were constructed and attached to the aileron tubes with tie-wraps, and to
the fuselage with a .032 alum metal ring and sheet metal screws. A
similar boot was constructed for the flap actuator rods.
An alturnative to this is to seal the whole cabin floor area. I found
this to be almost imposible. With the sub-floor area pressurized, air
leaks out of EVERY floor crack. It will also result is a very cold floor
all the time.
Except for some cold air that still leaks through the spar box, and a
slight draft out of the baggage compartment, my cockpit has been toasty
warm this winter (so far). There is still enough cabin leakage to allow
the hot air pressure source to flow. The alternate pito static source,
located inside the cockpit, still indicates that the cabin pressure is
lower than the static pressure, so I still haven't found all the air
leaks. Alternate static source did show that the cabin pressure rises
when the heat source is turned on (it didn't before I sealed the aileron
push rod & flap actuator holes), so progress has been made.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>Fellow RVers,
*** SNIP ****
> I taped over the major leaks that I had, on the cover on the 604
bulkhead
>and around the seat pan/604 juncture. I also found air entering around
each
>seat belt anchor. A major leak occurs around the slot cut out in the
605
>bulkhead for the manual flap arms. Electric flap guys will not have this
>problem. I don't have any leaks around the tip-up canopy.
> The remaining leaks seem to be coming from the baggage area. I'm
getting
>a lot of air through each "V" on the baggage bulkhead and some air where
"J"
>channels and longerons pass through the baggage bulkhead area. This
brings
>up a question. I need some ideas on how to seal these areas. A type of
>caulk for around the longerons pass through would work. I'd like to
find
>something that adhears well but is not a mess to remove in the spring.
It
>must stay in place so as not to disappear into inacessable places and
>hopefully, be white, to match with the interior. The other problem is
how
>to seal the "Vs" in the bagage bulkhead. Something kind of elegant. I
>don't want it to look like a farmer did it. (No flames, please. I'm in
>agriculture, so I can say it.) Any ideas? Thanks.
> On a happy note. I outran a well built RV-4 with a 150 hp engine,
>yesterday. The four is using a Prince prop and I have the Sensenich FP
>metal. I was turing 75-100 rpms less than the four.
>
>Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electronic Ignition |
<< I am about to make the big bucks decision on ordering an engine, and am
very much interested in an electronic iginition system for it. Van's price
for the Lasar sytem is $1500. Does anybody know prices on the other systems
and comparitive features and quality comparisons as well? >>
I would see if I could receive a credit for a magneto and use that money for
a Klaus (Lightspeed) or Jeff Rose (ElectroAir) system. If you want a true
EI, don't look at the Slick system, it's just a magneto band-aid. You will
get true value if you install the Lightspeed ($770 to $1,060) or ElectroAir
($785) system. Personally, I will be installing an ElectroAir system prior
to Sun-n-Fun (because it's (1) easier to install, (2) it makes used of the
mag "hole" and (3) I feel that it is less prone to failure because it is a
contained system as opposed to Klaus's rotating magnets on the flywheel).
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC, NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Sealing cockpit |
<< I taped over the major leaks that I had... I also found air entering
around each
seat belt anchor... A major leak occurs around the slot cut out in the 605
bulkhead...The remaining leaks seem to be coming from the baggage area...The
other problem is how to seal the "Vs" in the bagage bulkhead. Any ideas?
Thanks. >>
Yes, dress warmer.
I too need to leak-proff my RV, however, I don't think that I will carry the
process as far a you are looking to. I have a slide back canopy so the bulk
of my leaking comes from the rear of the canopy. I have stick boots (made by
DJ) to seal the the air from the holes in the seat pans. I am going to add
rubber seals around the flap attach rods. That should take care of 90% of
the air leaks.
I would think that you would want some air circulating in the cockpit to keep
the windows from fogging or to remove the nasal sensations given-off from
your passenger who consumed too many tacos at lunch.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC, NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | caummisa(at)arn.net (Richard Caummisar) |
I didn't see the original question, but it seems you are asking whether a
particular respirator is appropriate for Vari prime spraying. One good source
for this type of information is a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) from the
manufacture. They are surprisingly easy to get. It used to be when you
called a manufacturer
they would say "you want a MS.... what?" Now most have a group that handles
requests for them.
Using your sense of smell is a poor test for respirator. You can become
desensitize to some
organic solvents and not realize you are being exposed. For organic
vapors, the screw on canisters are
required by OSHA to be labeled for the type of hazard and have a black
stripe for organic vapors.
Paper based filter type respirators are for particulates (larger nuisance
dust type particles) NOT VAPORS.
Also, as has been mentioned in the many "exploding spray booth" threads,
good ventilation is an important
and necessary part of protecting you from solvent vapors, even after
spraying. Remember, the solvents continue to
evaporate while the product is drying or curing.
>Mike ,
>Sould like the one you got well do the job for Vari prime. A quick test is if
>you can smell the paint with the mask on it is not working , other then that
>you sould be ok . Be safe ....george Orndorff
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Advice needed on Sportcraft Antenna |
<< Does anybody know if you need a sportcraft nav antenna in each wingtip, or
only 1 in 1 wingtip ? Also, even though the glideslope frequency band is
different, if I use a splitter will it still do a good enough job picking up
the glideslope when I use the sportcraft antenna in the wingtip ( since the
antenna is used for receive only) .
Thanks
Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com >>
Scott:
One of Bob Archer's Sportcraft antenna is needed (recommended) for each
reciever. Two (2) VOR's, I would use two (2) antenna. Two (2) antenna
hooked to one radio will degrade the performance. DO NOT ever hook one radio
to 2 of Bob Archer's antenna. I cannot answer the glideslope question. What
I can say about splitters is that it divides the incoming signal in half.
This will decrease the signal available to the receiver. I only will use a
splitter as a last resort. Other people use them all the time.
The AeroElectric Connection has some homemade antenna plans in it. It is
worth the $42 that it costs. Bob Nuckolls is now the Electronics Editor in
KIT AIRCRAFT BUILDER magazine. Maybe he will write an article on antenna
installations for the next issue.
Good luck.
Gary A. Sobek
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electronic Ignition |
>
> My only regret so far: I didn't heed my own gut instincts to get on board
> with Bob Nucholls' Aero Electric Connection for bulletproof electrical system
> design before doing my panel and wiring... with one of the mags replaced by
> an electronic ignition, I suddenly care alot more about any possible
> scenarios where the alternator goes off line and the battery starts to wind
> down......
>
> Bill Boyd
> SportAV8R(at)aol.com
>
I've experienced electrical system failures two times. If you turn off the
lights and keep your radio transmissions to a minimum, you'll have more battery
than you have fuel. An alternator failure is simply no big deal, if your
battery is up to snuff.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BestBillO(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: VOR / Glideslope / Marker Beacon Antennas |
I have the splitter on my 2 year flying -6A with Kx155 and KI209, and both
VOR and glideslope seem to work well. (Only one antenna). Bill Orcutt
RV-6A, N911RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Canopy Defogging |
Listers,
With no provisions in the drawings for canopy defogging, what have others
done. On a cold day, will the canopy fog up? Will just circulation the air
in the cabin solve the problem? I've seen elaborate setups at Oshkosh in
order to get a blast of warm air on the front of a tip-up canopy. Is this
really necessary?
Thanks in advance.
Scott Gesele N506RV (Trying to finish this thing by Spring)
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Hurley <phurley(at)wco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Advice needed on Sportcraft Antenna |
aol.com!GASobek(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
> << Does anybody know if you need a sportcraft nav antenna in each wingtip, or
> only 1 in 1 wingtip ? Also, even though the glideslope frequency band is
> different, if I use a splitter will it still do a good enough job picking up
> the glideslope when I use the sportcraft antenna in the wingtip ( since the
> antenna is used for receive only) .
>
> Thanks
>
> Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com >>
>
> Scott:
>
> One of Bob Archer's Sportcraft antenna is needed (recommended) for each
> reciever. Two (2) VOR's, I would use two (2) antenna. Two (2) antenna
> hooked to one radio will degrade the performance. DO NOT ever hook one radio
> to 2 of Bob Archer's antenna. I cannot answer the glideslope question. What
> I can say about splitters is that it divides the incoming signal in half.
> This will decrease the signal available to the receiver. I only will use a
> splitter as a last resort. Other people use them all the time.
>
> The AeroElectric Connection has some homemade antenna plans in it. It is
> worth the $42 that it costs. Bob Nuckolls is now the Electronics Editor in
> KIT AIRCRAFT BUILDER magazine. Maybe he will write an article on antenna
> installations for the next issue.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Gary A. Sobek
Usually if you use splitters for copper connections there is a large dB
loss associated. You can check with your nav radio or antenna
manufacturer on this.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE365.1A5FAB20
Has anyone considered the rubber "boots" used on the constant velocity =
joints
(cv joints) on front wheel drive cars for the push-rod =
(elevator/aileron) cockpit entry areas? You wouldn't have to put a clamp =
on the small end were the rod goes through, you might even put some =
silicone grease on that area to prevent binding. I think you could =
overcome any binding if it should occur. I'm sure there are reasons why =
not, but I would like to hear them.=20
Al prober(at)iwaynet.net-Col.Oh.-N162NV Res.-Emp. and Wings-NO TIME!
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE365.1A5FAB20
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE365.1A5FAB20--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Electronic Ignition |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE365.1E5E01E0
Question,
Is it possible to keep two Mags AND an electronic ignition??? May be a stupid question,
but I thought I'd ask. Al prober(at)iwaynet.net
I would see if I could receive a credit for a magneto and use that money for
a Klaus (Lightspeed) or Jeff Rose (ElectroAir) system. If you want a true
EI, don't look at the Slick system, it's just a magneto band-aid. You will
get true value if you install the Lightspeed ($770 to $1,060) or ElectroAir
($785) system. Personally, I will be installing an ElectroAir system prior
to Sun-n-Fun (because it's (1) easier to install, (2) it makes used of the
mag "hole" and (3) I feel that it is less prone to failure because it is a
contained system as opposed to Klaus's rotating magnets on the flywheel).
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC, NJ
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE365.1E5E01E0
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE365.1E5E01E0--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RBusick505(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Need help- Pro Seal |
There are all kinds of ways to do this. I used the KISS system and mixed one
tablespoon of the white stuff with a 1/4 teaspoon of the black stuff. Mix
for about two minutes until you are positive it is mixed well and then mix
again for another two minutes to actually complete the mixing (I was
surprised by this myself).
What I found was the ratio of the mixture has more to do with the curing time
than anything else. Adding more black stuff will cure it faster, possibly
faster than you can use it. I never mixed more than one tablespoon of white
stuff at a time, it took me about an hour per rib and one tablespoon per rib,
and after that I needed a break! Lot of good posts about this in the
Archives, check "prosealing really not that bad."
Bob Busick
RV-6
RBusick(at)aol.com
<< Just received a container of Pro-Seal and accelerant from Vans. The
efficient shipping dept. put duct tape over the lid to ensure against
leakage in transit. It covered the instructions for use on the paper
label. When the tape was removed, so were the instructions.
Can anyone give me the recipe for mixing and any other instructions
for using this stuff?
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: VOR / Glideslope / Marker Beacon Antennas |
<< I have the splitter on my 2 year flying -6A with Kx155 and KI209, and both
VOR and glideslope seem to work well. (Only one antenna). Bill Orcutt
RV-6A, N911RV
>>
Hi All,
I don't remember seeing a spam can with two VOR antenna's hanging on the
outside, even though they frequently have dual NAV/COM radios installed.
That's why I said a splitter is normally used.
However, as Gary Sobek pointed out, a Sportcraft NAV antenna can be mounted
in each wingtip for a DUAL NAV to eliminate any signal loss, and have zero
drag from the NAV antenna's.
I plan to install a compromise installation for a dual NAV/COM system in my
RV-4. I am going to mount a single NAV antenna in one wingtip (and I can
install a marker beacon antenna there also), a COM antenna in the other
wingtip, and use the Sportcraft dual NAV/COM switch to control the dual
radios to the single antenna types. Now if I can just figure out where to
mount the transponder antenna, I won't have any antenna's outside my RV.
(Zero (antenna) Drag :-) )
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ron.taborek(at)flight642.com (RON TABOREK) |
I would like to join the RV discussion group, please.
My particulars are:
Ron Taborek
39 Elsfield Road
Toronto, Ontario, M8Y 3R6
phone 416-239-8731
email ron.taborek(at)flight642.com
I am about 90% complete on my RV-4, plans number 1299, and am aiming to
fly in 1997.
Please let me know if anything else is erquired for subscribing. I would
appreciate receiving some sort of outline of the procedures for using
the discussion group as this is the first I have joined.
Thanks,
Ron Taborek
---
{ Presentation of the preceding message was made possible by Flight 642 }
{ BBS. Canada's Aviation and Simulation connection. (905)642-2993 }
{ WEB Page: http://www.flight642.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)bala.HAC.COM (Gil Alexander) |
>Has anyone considered the rubber "boots" used on the constant velocity joints
>(cv joints) on front wheel drive cars for the push-rod (elevator/aileron)
>cockpit entry areas? You wouldn't have to put a clamp on the small end
>were the rod goes through, you might even put some silicone grease on that
>area to prevent binding. I think you could overcome any binding if it
>should occur. I'm sure there are reasons why not, but I would like to hear
>them.
> Al prober(at)iwaynet.net-Col.Oh.-N162NV Res.-Emp. and Wings-NO TIME!
>
>
>
Al ... the CV joint boots I've seen are made from quite a heavy rubber,
and would act like a centering spring, actually putting a restoring force
on the pushrod when it is deflected.
The glider guys usually use the "cloth cone" method described by
Fred Stucklen (leaks at the wing root into flap/aileron areas == drag ==
reduced L/D, a lot more critical in a modern glass sailplane)
The materials I have used are lightweight sailcloth or genuine
chamois leather. Both can be easily contact cemented into a cone, and are
flexible enough not to add any extra loads onto the control system. The
chamois is a little more "conformable" and I think easier to use. As
always, take care that anything you add to control systems won't cause
jamming if it comes loose.
... Gil (seal it up) Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com work
gila(at)flash.net home
RV6A, #20701
PS Funny story. One glider pilot at a contest needed to replace his pushrod
seals and thought condoms might be suitable. At the local drug store:
What size?
Large. (right, they all say that ...:^)
Lubricated or not?
Non-lubricated, so the glue will stick.
He got a really strange look from the lady behind the counter!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electronic Ignition |
You also need to remember to turn on the ALT switch.
I have a Cessna style split rocker switch MAST and ALT.
I always start with Master on and ALT off.
Then verify the starter is disengaged by looking at the amp meter
and then turn on the ALT switch. The other day I was flying around
and realized I had left the ALT switch off. On a long flight
that could discharge the battery to the point where it may
not charge if the switch is put on and the battery voltage is too
low.
> >
> > My only regret so far: I didn't heed my own gut instincts to get on board
> > with Bob Nucholls' Aero Electric Connection for bulletproof electrical system
> > design before doing my panel and wiring... with one of the mags replaced by
> > an electronic ignition, I suddenly care alot more about any possible
> > scenarios where the alternator goes off line and the battery starts to wind
> > down......
> >
> > Bill Boyd
> > SportAV8R(at)aol.com
> >
>
> I've experienced electrical system failures two times. If you turn off the
> lights and keep your radio transmissions to a minimum, you'll have more battery
> than you have fuel. An alternator failure is simply no big deal, if your
> battery is up to snuff.
>
> Chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)bala.HAC.COM (Gil Alexander) |
Listers .... FYI
Variprime 615S contains:
Acetone
Barium Sulfate
Butyl Acetate
Calcium Carbonate
Ethyl Alcohol
Hydrous Magnesium Silicate
Isopropyl Alcohol
Methyl Isobutyl Ketone
n-butyl Alcohol
Nitrocellulose
Phenolic polymer
Polyvinyl Butyl Resin
Titanium Dioxide
Tolulene
Ethyl Acetate
Ethyl Glycol Monobutyl Ether Acetate
Variprime 616S Converter contains:
Acetone
Butyl Acetate
n-butyl Alcohol
Phosphoric Acid
Crystalline Silica
Isobutyl Acetate
Definitely wear a mask rated for Organic Vapors!! Be careful
spraying!! Seveeral of the above can be absorbed through the skin in
harmful amounts - so cover up!!
As Richard Caummisar said in his respirator posting, all of this is
available from the DuPont MSDS sheets available (at least in CA) from the
seller of the paint - if you ask for them.
... Gil (wear that mask) Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com work
gila(at)flash.net home
RV6A, #20701, N64GA rsvd.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Status of my RV-6AQ project |
Hi yall,
Van's has my money and I expect a kit in less than 60 days!!!!
What am I going to need:
To pick it up at factory - truck, moving pads?, ? Helpers?
Hal Kempthorne
Debonair N6134V - in the shop
RV-6AQ - in the mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electronic Ignition |
<< Is it possible to keep two Mags AND an electronic ignition??? May be a
stupid question, but I thought I'd ask. >>
Not really. You see the single mag is retained to fire the top set of plugs
(and to provide redundency) and the electronic unit fires the the bottom set
of plugs. Now we're out of spark plugs. If you could get the two mags to
fire through the one harness (I don't think you could easyly do that) I feel
that you would have redundant redundency at the expense of weight and money
not to mention complexity.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC, NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Molny" <D.J.Molny(at)evolving.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electronic Ignition |
Chris Ruble writes:
>
> I've experienced electrical system failures two times. If you turn off the
> lights and keep your radio transmissions to a minimum, you'll have more
battery
> than you have fuel. An alternator failure is simply no big deal, if your
> battery is up to snuff.
And if you're in VMC.
-- DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sealing cockpit |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Listers:
I did, but it was far easier to make my own....
Anybody wanting the pattern for the aileron push rod boots, send me a
SASE to:
Fred Stucklen
148 Winkler Rd
E. Windsor, Ct. 06088
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE365.1A5FAB20
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>Has anyone considered the rubber "boots" used on the constant velocity
>=
>joints
>(cv joints) on front wheel drive cars for the push-rod =
>(elevator/aileron) cockpit entry areas? You wouldn't have to put a
>clamp =
>on the small end were the rod goes through, you might even put some =
>silicone grease on that area to prevent binding. I think you could =
>overcome any binding if it should occur. I'm sure there are reasons
>why =
>not, but I would like to hear them.=20
> Al prober(at)iwaynet.net-Col.Oh.-N162NV Res.-Emp. and Wings-NO TIME!
>
>
>
>
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>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
| Subject: | Status of my RV-6AQ project |
Ed Cole and I flew up to Van's and rented a 25' (I think) Penske one-way
truck and three dozen blankets. Also took up about four ratcheting
tie-down belts, four non-ratcheting quick release belts, and about 10
ropes of varying lengths (most were 12'). We both got a few hours of
dual in the red RV-6A with Mike Seager in the morning, and then packed
up the quickbuild kit in a couple of hours. There were one or two
people from Van's helping most of the time. Penske's got the best thing
going: cheaper than U-haul, all new trucks, unlimited mileage, and
24-hour roadside service. Of course, Ed and I did have "bump fatigue"
for a day or two afterwards because we drove from Oregon to San Jose, CA
in one shot. Got to San Jose just before sun rise the next morning.
>----------
>From: sybase.com!halk(at)matronics.com[SMTP:sybase.com!halk(at)matronics.com]
>Sent: Friday, December 06, 1996 8:37 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Status of my RV-6AQ project
>
>Hi yall,
>
>Van's has my money and I expect a kit in less than 60 days!!!!
>
>What am I going to need:
>
> To pick it up at factory - truck, moving pads?, ? Helpers?
>
>Hal Kempthorne
>Debonair N6134V - in the shop
>RV-6AQ - in the mail
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
>Has anyone considered the rubber "boots" used on the constant velocity joints
>(cv joints) on front wheel drive cars for the push-rod (elevator/aileron)
cockpit entry areas? You wouldn't have to put a clamp on the small end were
the rod goes through, you might even put some silicone grease on that area
to prevent binding.
> Al prober(at)iwaynet.net-Col.Oh.-N162NV Res.-Emp. and Wings-NO TIME!
Al, Grease + dirt & dust = wear. Also, I think the boots would degrade the
excellent control feel of the RVs. I would think that any tubes that might
be subject to wear should have some additional protection, maybe a
polyurethane top coat. At least, the small end should probably be immobilized.
Rdgards, Bob Skinner BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Defogging |
>With no provisions in the drawings for canopy defogging, what have others
>done. On a cold day, will the canopy fog up? Will just circulation the air
>in the cabin solve the problem? I've seen elaborate setups at Oshkosh in
>order to get a blast of warm air on the front of a tip-up canopy. Is this
>really necessary?
>Scott Gesele N506RV (Trying to finish this thing by Spring)
scottg(at)villagenet.com
Scott, The plexy will fog. I have one of the elaborate systems you speak
of. I fabricated a "cabin heat box" that mates up (mirror image) with the
cabin air box on the firewall, engine side. The box inside routes hot air to
either the defroster or cabin heat. Of course, you have to pull on cabin
heat for this to work. A one inch scat tube takes hot air to a little box
that is mounted on the aft of the instrument panel which has a hole cut in
the top. this hole mates up with a corresponding hole in a fiberglass
plenum that is attached to the glare shield. The glare shield has a series
of #30 holes drilled in it.
This set up works fine but was time consuming to build. I think on the
next one, I'll steal an idea from a RV-6 that I saw in Boone, Iowa a few
years ago (unless you guys come up with something better.) He cut 3 or 4
holes about 1 1/2 in diameter in his glare shield on the tip up canopy. On
the underside, he mounted little 12 volt, Radio Shack cooling fans. He
said it worked fine by blowing heat off of the radio stack onto the
windshield. This is a key point. He did not have a cover, or shield over
his stack, incressing the probablity of water damaged avionics. As I had
fabricated a cover, I knew I wouldn't be getting heat from my radios. In
fact, I installed a larger Radio Shack 12 volt cooling fan on the back of
the box I fabricated around the radios for a avionics cooling fan. $
12-15.00 as opposed to $130.00. I wonder, even with the radios shielded, if
you wouldn't get enough heat from the cabin heat blowing in for the little
fans to work.
Bob Skinner RV-6 Nebr. BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Status of my RV-6AQ project |
>Hi yall,
>
>What am I going to need:
>
> To pick it up at factory - truck, moving pads?, ? Helpers?
>
>Hal Kempthorne
Hal,
Check all the truck company rental rates. Within a span of two months, all
of them had changed theirs and I wound up saving $300 switching companies.
The guys at Van's prefer the U-Haul type trucks (with the extra storage over
the cab). They can place the engine mount, cowling, etc. up there. I
showed up in a 24 footer without this overhead storage and wound up nailing
these items to the floor. Not good, but I got everything home okay.
I had 36 moving pads, rope, tie-downs, etc. and two helpers. We wrapped up
components in protective paper while the Van's staff strapped the fuselage
and wings in place inside the truck. Then we placed everything left over
into the empty fuselage.
Have fun!
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q project:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker
(last update 12/4/96)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: VOR / Glideslope / Marker Beacon Antennas |
Hi All,
My spam can has antennae sticking out all over. I decided to find out what they
all do.
Between wheels - three or so inch rod with half inch ball on end - Transponder
Further back a 90 degree bent wire - Marker beacon recvr
Further back underneath a pod - ADF
and also a bent wire two or so feet long - Communciations Radio #1
On top of fuselage another bent wire - Loran
Further back a straight wire - Communications Radio #2
Nearby a skinny wire - ELT
On top of the rudder (this is a straight tail!) a Vee wire pointing aft (looks
like it is on backwards but it isn't) - Navigation Radios & Glideslope connected
to a splitter
No wonder it goes so slow!
Hal Kempthorne
Debonair N6134V (for sale in '98!)
halk(at)sybase.com
Santa Clara, CA.
RV-6AQ - on order!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electronic Ignition |
Regarding item 3 below, I don't think that system uses a "rotating magnets
on the flywheel". My understanding is you install two steel bolts
180 degrees apart in the flywheel. These are then sensed by the magnet
sensor that is statically mounted on the engine.
In either, case there is something out there that could break off so
you have a valid concern. The bracket for the sensor could crack or the
wire to the sensor could break or melt or ?. I think the bolts in the
flywheel would be secure and should not be a problem.
Hey if you want to have some fun, stick a little metal object on the
flywheel of one of these planes with some bubble gum on some poor suckers
plane and watch to see how it runs :-). Just reach in through the
open cowl. That should be enough to scare anyone out of using this system.
Herman (just using good ol mags for now)
> I would see if I could receive a credit for a magneto and use that money for
> a Klaus (Lightspeed) or Jeff Rose (ElectroAir) system. If you want a true
> EI, don't look at the Slick system, it's just a magneto band-aid. You will
> get true value if you install the Lightspeed ($770 to $1,060) or ElectroAir
> ($785) system. Personally, I will be installing an ElectroAir system prior
> to Sun-n-Fun (because it's (1) easier to install, (2) it makes used of the
> mag "hole" and (3) I feel that it is less prone to failure because it is a
> contained system as opposed to Klaus's rotating magnets on the flywheel).
>
> Gary Corde
> RV-6 N211GC, NJ
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
I wonder if the pattern is something I can scan into a bitmap so people
can
download the pattern from my web site? Maybe we could even keep it to
scale so they can print it out and have a full-sized pattern.
>----------
>From:
> juno.com!wstucklen1(at)matronics.com[SMTP:juno.com!wstucklen1(at)matronics.com]
>Sent: Friday, December 06, 1996 9:47 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Sealing cockpit
>
>Listers:
>
> I did, but it was far easier to make my own....
>Anybody wanting the pattern for the aileron push rod boots, send me a
>SASE to:
>
> Fred Stucklen
> 148 Winkler Rd
> E. Windsor, Ct. 06088
>
>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
>wstucklen1(at)juno.com
>
>
> writes:
>>
>>------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE365.1A5FAB20
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>
>>Has anyone considered the rubber "boots" used on the constant velocity
>>=
>>joints
>>(cv joints) on front wheel drive cars for the push-rod =
>>(elevator/aileron) cockpit entry areas? You wouldn't have to put a
>>clamp =
>>on the small end were the rod goes through, you might even put some =
>>silicone grease on that area to prevent binding. I think you could =
>>overcome any binding if it should occur. I'm sure there are reasons
>>why =
>>not, but I would like to hear them.=20
>> Al prober(at)iwaynet.net-Col.Oh.-N162NV Res.-Emp. and Wings-NO TIME!
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>FLADIBNQbxzBQJBpd2F5G3B0LjjBAi0IUGwuT2guLcBOMTYyTlYH8AeQvTmgRSgAL2AAcBwwVy8x
>>AnM5sE8gVElNRZ4hCoU7/Ar0LJAzNg3w9xncOBET0GMFQDzfPe8+/AUVMQBCoAAAAAMAEBAAAAAA
>>AwAREAEAAABAAAcw4B2UOo3juwFAAAgw4B2UOo3juwEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAE8P
>>
>>------ =_NextPart_000_01BBE365.1A5FAB20--
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MiDiBu <midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com> |
>Listers .... FYI
>
>Variprime 615S contains:
>
snip
> Definitely wear a mask rated for Organic Vapors!! Be careful
>spraying!! Seveeral of the above can be absorbed through the skin in
>harmful amounts - so cover up!!
>gil(at)rassp.hac.com work
>gila(at)flash.net home
>
>RV6A, #20701, N64GA rsvd.
>
Thanks,
I really appreciate that.
Mike Weller RV 80187 (under construction)
midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com (preferred) or mike.weller(at)msfc.nasa.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bseckstein(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Cockpit air leaks |
Regarding the use of some sort of boot to seal the air flow around a tube
moving through a hole. Automobile rack and pinion steering boots are made to
have several inches of easy travel, unlike cv joint boots which are fixed at
both ends. Besides, the size is more likely close.
Brian Eckstein
Rv-6a just starting wing spars
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Defogging |
The October 1995 issue of Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing Newsletter had a
very nice article about a neat design for a windshield defog system with
pictures and a complete description about where to get the parts. Cost was
about $25.00. The 1995 back issues are available for $5.00. For that matter
the 1996 back issues are also available for $5.00. This newsletter is not
really a local newsletter. It is designed to help you build your RV easier
while avoiding the mistakes that I and others have made. I have well over
300 subscribers all over the world. As long as I am on my soap box, if you
have not renewed your subscription for 1997, still only $5.00, it is time. I
am working on the January issue now. If you are interested in any of the
back issues, send me an E-mail and I will send the back issues that you want
and they can cross your check in the snail mail.
Jim Cone, Editor
Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing Newsletter
422 Savannah Ridge Drive
St. Charles, MO 63303
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
The can of VariPrime has the recommened respirator type listed on it (at
least mine did). I picked pne up at the paint store, but have seen the same
rated respirators in Home Depot.
Jon Scholl
RV6 WIngs
bcg007(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul A. Lange" <73234.654(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | removing me from mailing list |
I'd like to have my name removed from the mailing list please. Let me know what
I need to do.............Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Advice needed - setting up a new engine from VANS |
> I just received a new lycoming 0-360 A1A from VANS and it has the prop
> governor pad on it. This pad has 4 bolts sticking up with about 30
washers
> on each bolt with a cover. Do I take this whole unit off and make a cover
> or can I just take the hose off of it (plug the hole with a bolt cap) and
> leave it as is !
Hi Scott. Lycoming reccomends removing the whole thing. That's what I ended
up doing with mine. You want to remove the entire assembly (the bolts below
the oil feed tube) not just the backing plate. The whole unit attaches at
the engine with 4 bolts, and when you remove it you will be pulling an arm
with a gear attached from within the engine. This not only removes a failure
point, but the whole thing weighsabout 3 pounds! Dead weight if you are
using a FP prop.
You then need to put a cover plate over the hole. My local FBO had one in a
"junk" box that they gave to me for the cost of the new gasket.
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Need help- Pro Seal |
> Just received a container of Pro-Seal and accelerant from Vans. The
> efficient shipping dept. put duct tape over the lid to ensure against
> leakage in transit. It covered the instructions for use on the paper
> label. When the tape was removed, so were the instructions.
>
> Can anyone give me the recipe for mixing and any other instructions
> for using this stuff?
Unless the ratio has changed over the last year or so, it is supposed to be
mixed at a 10:1 ratio (by weight, not volume). I made a simple balance beam
scale set on top of a "High Point" balancer (available at hobby shops that
sell RC aircraft). I don't think it needs to be that precise, but I had the
balancer anyway, and it worked well.
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cheryl Sanchez <csanchez(at)world.std.com> |
| Subject: | Engine connections? |
Hi,
I am contemplating how I am going to connect everything to my
engine and I have a question about the oil temperature probe connection.
My engine is a new O-360-A1A from Van's. The manual shows a connection port
on the BACK of the oil temp.valve? on the back of the
engine. But when look back there there is no port. My vernatherm? does
not look like the one in the manual. It does, however, have a threaded
port on the TOP of the back that is vertically oriented. Is this where it
goes? This port looks to be a larger size than the one mentioned in the
manual. I guess Lycoming made an engineering change and forgot to
update their manual.
Thanks.
Cheryl Sanchez
csanchez(at)world.std.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine connections? |
Cheryl, Do you have an oil filter adapter? If you do the hole for the
vernitherm is located on the adapter in a vertical fashion. The hole for the
temp probe is on the same adapter. Depending on the type of probe you have
the probe may be to long. If its over 4 inches you will probably have to send
in the instrument and have a different style probe installed. If its a 3 in
one gage it might be worth it. If its a solo type gage it would be cheaper to
get a new one. I dont have my book on hand or I could give more info. Good
luck. Ryan Bendure RV4131rb(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine connections? |
Cheryl, Sorry I left the other half out. If you have the screen instead of
the filter adapter your vernitherm goes in from the rear in a horizontal
fasion, I believe the temp probe goes right underneath it in a horizontal
position. Your vernitherm should look like a bullet with a small nut on the
pointed end,.and is fairly large in diameter. If you have more problems with
this send me an E mail and I will see if I can explain beter. Ryan Bendure
RV4131rb(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Fritz <75303.1623(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | NEW DIESEL 200 HP CONTINENTAL AT HALF PRICE! |
Just reading in the Dec 96 issue of Light Plane Maintenance......
"Christmas came a little early to Teledyne Continental Motors when NASA picked
them to assist in a $9.5M cooperative agreement to develop and flight test a new
engine concept. Intended for use on small, single and twin engine aircraft and
capable of burning Jet-A (or an equally versatile fuel), the new design is
expected to produce a 150 to 200 hp, two-stroke, flat four diesel. Simple,
rugged and possessing qualities sensitive to noise concerns at half the cost of
a conventional piston engine. We should all be on the edge of our seat - it's
been a long time coming."
That's verbatim, complete, and all I know.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cheryl Sanchez <csanchez(at)world.std.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine connections? |
>Cheryl, Sorry I left the other half out. If you have the screen instead of
>the filter adapter your vernitherm goes in from the rear in a horizontal
>fasion, I believe the temp probe goes right underneath it in a horizontal
>position. Your vernitherm should look like a bullet with a small nut on the
>pointed end,.and is fairly large in diameter. If you have more problems with
>this send me an E mail and I will see if I can explain beter. Ryan Bendure
>RV4131rb(at)aol.com
>
>
Ryan,
Thanks for the reply. I do have an oil filter on the engine. There is
no place on the end of the vernatherm to put in anything in the
horozontal position. There is a vertical port but it would only allow a
probe of at most an inch or an inch and a half. I think mine is very
short, maybee 3/4".
Cheryl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6A, B, T, etc |
A while back Brian Eckstein asked about the variants of the 6/6A.
The RV-6B ("the yellow one") is a prototype incorporating design changes to
meet some of the Light Aircraft Category certification requirements, if that
is ever considered. The wing was moved back a little, has integral fuel
tanks, and fowler type flaps and the rudder is balanced, to name a few of the
things I know about.
The RV-6T ("the red one") incorporates changes that were made to meet the
requirements of the "Nigerian" project. Among those are overhead rudder
pedals, balanced rudder, taller canopy (T for tall), lowered floor pan, 180
h.p. engine, constant speed prop, and flat spring main gear.
Some of this is probably in the archives, but I haven't looked.
Les Williams
lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com
empennage complete, waiting for balance of QB 6-A w/tip-up canopy
on order since June 96
RV-6A #20299 completed Apr 92, sold Oct 95
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bseckstein(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Spar flange taper |
The new pre-punched kits come with all but the longest (the thin one) spar
flanges tapered. The plans show two methods of terminating the flanges,
taper or 45 degree notches. It seems to me that the notch serves no purpose.
Does anyone know if the notches are needed? Can I just round over the edge
on the scotchbrite wheel?
Thanks
Brian Eckstein
6A, you guessed it, working on main spars.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: NEW DIESEL 200 HP CONTINENTAL AT HALF PRICE! |
Robert Fritz wrote:
>
> Just reading in the Dec 96 issue of Light Plane Maintenance......
>
> "Christmas came a little early to Teledyne Continental Motors when NASA picked
> them to assist in a $9.5M cooperative agreement to develop and flight test a
new
> engine concept. Intended for use on small, single and twin engine aircraft
and
> capable of burning Jet-A (or an equally versatile fuel), the new design is
> expected to produce a 150 to 200 hp, two-stroke, flat four diesel. Simple,
> rugged and possessing qualities sensitive to noise concerns at half the cost
of
> a conventional piston engine. We should all be on the edge of our seat - it's
> been a long time coming."
>
> That's verbatim, complete, and all I know.
Robert,
There's more on it in the November Sport Aviation, pg 13. That article
says the contract is to develop an "intermittant combustion engine" -
which could be a "Wankel-type rotary or other concept". Also, operation
on jet fuel is a "hope", but not a requirement, and cost "will be half to
a tenth of the cost of current engines". The contract requires ground
testing in 1998 and flight demonstrations at Oshkosh '99.
Perhaps by Oshkosh '00 it will be in Van's catalog at half off list.
Bob Reiff, RV-4 in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine connections? |
Cheryl, The vernitherm should screw in from the bottom of the oil filter
adapter in a vertical position. The oil temp probe should screw in from the
top in a vertical position. The hole for the vernatherm is the large port.
The hole for the temp probe is the smaller one. If your probe is three
quarters of an inch long it should work with that set up as is.If that isnt
enough info ask for more, were getting there. Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg) |
| Subject: | Re: Spar flange taper |
Rounded over is fine, probably better than the 45 degree cutoff.
Doug
At 10:03 PM 12/7/96, aol.com!Bseckstein(at)matronics.com wrote:
>The new pre-punched kits come with all but the longest (the thin one) spar
>flanges tapered. The plans show two methods of terminating the flanges,
>taper or 45 degree notches. It seems to me that the notch serves no purpose.
> Does anyone know if the notches are needed? Can I just round over the edge
>on the scotchbrite wheel?
>
>Thanks
>
>Brian Eckstein
>6A, you guessed it, working on main spars.
Doug Bloomberg
RV-6A N399DB (in the womb)
Denver, CO
dougb(at)mail.diac.com (home)
doug(at)boulder.vni.com (work)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Spar flange taper |
> >The new pre-punched kits come with all but the longest (the thin one) spar
> >flanges tapered. The plans show two methods of terminating the flanges,
> >taper or 45 degree notches. It seems to me that the notch serves no purpose.
> > Does anyone know if the notches are needed? Can I just round over the edge
> >on the scotchbrite wheel?
>
> Rounded over is fine, probably better than the 45 degree cutoff.
Hmm. You get a *better* round-over if you cut at 45, then round. It only
takes 10 minutes to do the 4 cuts needed using a hacksaw, then a few minutes
with the Scotchbrite wheel to clean it all up.
You do not want square ends. This gives a stress point. Granted, it's
relatively thin aluminum, but it's *still* a stress point, when the flange
strip goes to nothing all at once. You're probably okay in this case, but
for 10 minutes of work....
-Joe
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
14190 47th Ave N.
Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JHTH " <JHTH(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Advice Needed on Priming |
I have just begun construction on my RV-8 tail kit & have a couple of
questions regarding primer:
1. Who is a vendor for Vari Prime & what other surface prep is recommended
prior to primer application.
2. What is the recommended primer/procedure for steel parts.
Thanks!
John Hall
jhth(at)msn.com
RV-8 #80227 (just begun)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dieck(at)apexcomm.net (Robert Dieck) |
| Subject: | RV6a Landing Gear F6101 |
The Plans for the main landing gear (RV6a) show the F6101 doubler (drawing
59) as being riveted with universal rivets. Are all of these covered by the
wing root or should some of them be flush? I talked to Vans and they said
that they haven't had any one complain, but to check it with a template.
Using the template the bottom row of rivets appear to be exposed. What has
any everyone else run in to.
Thanks to all!
Bob
Robert/Tammie Dieck
Wausau WI USA
dieck(at)apexcomm.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mmartin(at)perigee.net (Mitchell Martin) |
Has anyone tried an alternative to the flop tube type of inverted system
in an RV-6? (as this also requires moving the sending unit) Maybe a
small header tank, etc. I have an AEIO-320-E1B and I figure I might as
well make the most use of it.
Also, how and where is the best location for mounting the Christian
system?
RV-6Q inventoried and ready to start.
--
Regards, Mitch
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Martin Electronics Co. --- Communications Electronics and Computers
FCC Licenced and NABER Certified Technician ---- Amatuer Radio KA4OBE
mailto:mmartin@perigee.net -------- http://www.perigee.net/~mmartin
Finger mmartin(at)mail.perigee.net for PGP Public Key
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PhilipR920(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | 6AQ parts/rivets |
ad41 abs rivets are specified in the drawings for the leading edge of the
rudder. The parts list does not include any reference to ad41 abs rivets. Any
other quick builders have this problem? Is there another rivet that is
furnished that is interchangeable?
Phil Rogerson
60057/N936PR reserved
philipr920(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elon Ormsby <elon.o(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Matt:
How are you doing on the CD ROM project? Will I be able to give it to
myself for Christmas?
-Elon elon.o(at)worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rdunn(at)ionet.net (Ron Dunn) |
| Subject: | Error in RV-8 flap drawing |
Open letter to Andy Hanna
Dear Andy,
While building my RV-8 flaps, I puzzled about how to build the flap angle
FL-406A. A friend, fitting the canopy on his RV-4, said to just use the
"full scale" portion of Van's drawing as a templet. He said that his RV-4
'draftsmen-made' drawings were very accurate and that my RV-8 AutoCad-made
drawings should be at least as accurate. So, that's what I did.
Crap! Your RV-8 #14 "Flap" drawing is way off, Andy. I'm referring to the
"FL-406A flap angle" full scale rendering on the right hand side. The angle
that is cut into the FL803PP spar at the root end is drawn wrong. You don't
have nearly enough angle depicted.
Of course, I should have checked your drawing by laying the spar over the
drawing BEFORE I MADE THE FL-406As. No big deal for an experienced builder,
but very irrating when added to all the other screw-ups that this newbie
manages to inject into this project.
There, I feel better now.
Ron
Ron Dunn [RV-8 #78]
rdunn(at)ionet.net
Broken Arrow, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Anthony Wiebe <anthony(at)websight.ab.ca> |
I am trying to contact Jon Johanson, the gentleman who flew his RV4
around the world (twice). If anyone has any information such as address,
phone number, or e-mail address, please forward it to me.
Thank you.
Best Regards,
Anthony Wiebe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rudder trailing edge bend |
I'm having a bit of trouble on the trailing edge of the rudder. With some
difficulty I've managed to bend the trailing edge so the rudder skin just
touches the R402 spar when the spar is laid in position (per the
instructions). The resulting trailing edge outside diameter is about 5/32,
which is a bit smaller than it really should be (the radius should be 3/32,
giving a 6/32 diameter). Is the slightly too small radius a problem?
The thing that really concerns me is the "flatness" of the rudder skin near
the trailing edge. The instructions say the skin should be flat right up
until the beginning of the radius of the trailing edge. The instructions say
failure to get the skin flat can result in control problems. I can't seem to
get mine perfectly flat. In most areas, a straight edge laid perpendicular
to the trailing edge shows 1/32" to 1/16" distance between the straight edge
and the skin just forward of where the trailing edge starts. This is not
very much space, but the skin is not perfectly flat per the instructions.
Is this a problem?
I'm at a loss regarding how to improve the situation. I'm afraid that if I
press the rudder in my brake any more the trailing edge radius will get even
smaller than it is (it's already undersize a bit). Any ideas?
Thanks,
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ #60023
CapnTim(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ross Rebgetz <Ross.Rebgetz(at)tvl.tcp.csiro.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Jon Johanson |
>I am trying to contact Jon Johanson, the gentleman who flew his RV4
>around the world (twice). If anyone has any information such as address,
>phone number, or e-mail address, please forward it to me.
Try
http://saaa.nasma.com/jonjoh/jon.html or http://saaa.nasma.com/
The SAAA have an email inquiry address listed in the above as
enquiries(at)saaa.nasma.com
Regards
Ross
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phone: +61 077 538570 W
+61 077 753192 H
Fax : +61 077 538600 W
Email: Ross.Rebgetz(at)tvl.tcp.csiro.au
Mail : CSIRO
Davies Laboratory
Private Mail Bag
Aitkenvale Qld 4814
Australia
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
| Subject: | Access to Archives |
ARGGGHHH.....! After I type my search word and enter, I get a
message that says "bad HTML no form action defined". Huh, wha- what does
that mean?
Ron (cyberdumb)Vandervort,RV-6q
rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us
Seattle area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au> |
Can anyone tell me the amount of overlap needed for the center bottom skins
where they overlap the botton of the wing?
Using the F-615 outer seat rib as the datum
Measured at the main spar -
Measured at the rear spar attachment -
Thanks
Royce Craven
roycec(at)ozemail.com.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | The Smiths <kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VOR / Glideslope / Marker Beacon Antennas |
Jim:
Some radio bands are horizontally polarized, some are vertically
polarized. The horizontal signals will probably work ok with wing tip
antanae. I think you will need at least one vertical antenna, however,
for com side of nav/com. Best looking installation I've seen is located
between the gear legs, with the bump tucked in behind the exhaust exit
fairing.
Ken Smith
kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com |
| Subject: | Error in RV-8 flap drawing |
To Ron Dunn
Ron, I think your friend gave you some risky advice. Rule #1 in the machine
shop trade is "DO NOT SCALE THE DRAWINGS". In fact, many companies have
this note as part of their standard title block. All parts need to be
fabricated based on dimensions. If you can't find the necessary dimensions,
you need to ask another builder( who has built that part ) or ask Van's.
Unfortunately, Van's drawings are not always as clear as they should be.
This is well known among builders and the factory has shown a reluctance
to rev them unless there are extreme problems. You have to be on your
guard at all times. If you call the factory and they tell you it's ok to
scale a particular drawing, then fine. However, as a rule, this is a risky
thing to do.
Good luck
John
Walsh(at)ranger.enet.dec.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electronic Ignition |
>
> Chris Ruble writes:
> >
> > I've experienced electrical system failures two times. If you turn off the
> > lights and keep your radio transmissions to a minimum, you'll have more
> battery
> > than you have fuel. An alternator failure is simply no big deal, if your
> > battery is up to snuff.
>
> And if you're in VMC.
>
> -- DJ
>
>
Well...yes, that too.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HowardRV(at)aol.com |
This morning's news showed a single engine plane that crashed into a grocery
store in New Jersey. The tail looked like a RV- Any Ideas?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder trailing edge bend |
Tim,
I went through the same thing with my rudder. In talking to Tom at Vans I
found the concern to be potential control surface flutter. I dont think I
ever got a definitive answer on what was acceptable for a minimum t.e.
radius or deviation from a perfectly straight surface to the start of the bend.
At that point I took matters into my own hands, and took a straight edge
and calipers to my local airport and also a couple of fly-ins. I found most
of the RV's I measured had a t.e radius somewhat less than that specified in
the plans. I found not a single RV on which the skin lay perfectly flat
right up to the start of the t.e. bend across the whole span of the control
surface. I saw a couple with a bulge of greater than 1/8 of an inch. While I
would find that much of a bulge unacceptable, all of the owners of the
aircraft I measured reported no noticeable adverse affects due to the bulge
or slightly small t.e. radius. Based on this I decided my rudder should be
acceptable (t.e. min radius of about 5/64; mostly bulge free, but gaps at
the t.e. in several places of approx 1/32).
I found out after completion of my rudder that a good trick is to insert a
short piece of drill rod or dowel of the required diameter into both ends of
the surface at the t.e. before completing the bend in the brake. This will
prevent an overbend/reduced t.e. radius. I did this on my elevators and it
worked fine.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: VOR / Glideslope / Marker Beacon Antennas |
<< Jim:
Some radio bands are horizontally polarized, some are vertically
polarized. The horizontal signals will probably work ok with wing tip
antanae. I think you will need at least one vertical antenna, however,
for com side of nav/com. Best looking installation I've seen is located
between the gear legs, with the bump tucked in behind the exhaust exit
fairing.
Ken Smith
kpsmith(at)cnsnet.com
>>
Hi All,
Ken's right, The NAV frequencies are horizontally polarized and the COM
frequencies are vertically polarized. That's why the Narco Escort II radio
is such a poor COM radio. The COM receiver (vertical polarization) uses the
NAV antenna (horizontal polarization) to receive the COM signal. By flying
knife edge, the COM reception range is normal.
I don't pretend to know anything about antenna design. But I have kept track
of some types of installations and how well they work.
The Sportcraft NAV antenna in my RV-3 allowed me to receive the NAV signal 10
miles earlier than the Cessna 210 I was flying with. So the Sportcraft NAV
antenna is as good as a spam can installation.
The Sportcraft COM antenna mounted in the Vertical Stabilizer (VS) received
the Hillsboro ATIS at 86 miles, when I first checked to see if I could
receive it. Van's wingtip and canopy antenna's were said to receive the
Hillsboro ATIS at 30 and 40 miles, respectively.
Tracy Saylor has a Sportcraft wingtip COM antenna in his RV-6. He found that
in the low and midrange COM frequencies, the Sportcraft antenna works better
than a bent COM antenna mounted on the bottom of his RV-6. However, at the
high end of the COM frequency (near 136 mhz), it didn't work as well.
The highest frequency I normally use is 128.2 mhz. I have both the VS COM
antenna and the wingtip COM antenna in my RV-3. I only have one COM radio.
I have used both antenna's on the same radio, and the VS antenna works
better than the wingtip antenna.
Of course, the history of the VS antenna is that it is designed for that
location because it would work better than an antenna mounted ANYWHERE else
on the aircraft. But a 8" taller fairing has to be built around it.
As a compromise installation, having already demonstrated to my own
satisfaction the operation of the various COM and NAV antenna's, I plan to
install a dual COM, single NAV and single GPS radio system in my RV-4 using a
single Sportcraft wingtip NAV antenna, a single Sportcraft wingtip COM
antenna, a Sportcraft Dual COM switch, and mount the GPS antenna under the
canopy on the roll-over bar, or on top of the baggage compartment deck.
The compromise is towards ease of installation, but it is not a reduction in
reception compared to flying a typical spam can.
But there is no compromise on this installation in acheiving Less Drag. :-)
So, I have tried to walk you through my thought process. I know I have
threatened the basic antenna paradigm; i.e. the antenna has to be mounted on
the outside of the aircraft.
For anyone that is interested, I'm making the same offer to the rv list I
made before. You can save around $20 per antenna from the A.S.&S. price by
contacting me directly. By letting me know what antenna you would like, it
will be shipped directly from Sportcraft Antenna.
The wingtip antenna's are COM, NAV and Marker Beacon.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Lorz" <tlorz(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder trailing edge bend |
If you have access to the Archives, messages 241, 248-249, 260, 286 address
this. The author relates a specific test flight incidence and what he did
to correct it. If you can not find them using the message numbers, the
dates are around the end of April of 1991...
----------
> From: Mike Wills <manta.nosc.mil!willsm(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Rudder trailing edge bend
> Date: Monday, December 09, 1996 9:32 AM
>
> Tim,
> I went through the same thing with my rudder. In talking to Tom at Vans
I
> found the concern to be potential control surface flutter. I dont think I
[ deleted ...]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder trailing edge bend |
>the trailing edge. The instructions say the skin should be flat right up
>until the beginning of the radius of the trailing edge. The instructions say
>failure to get the skin flat can result in control problems. I can't seem to
>
>I'm at a loss regarding how to improve the situation. I'm afraid that if I
>press the rudder in my brake any more the trailing edge radius will get even
>smaller than it is (it's already undersize a bit). Any ideas?
Tim,
Put a dowel or length of piano wire down the trailing edge and then use the
brake again or carefully work along with the hand seamer. This will stop you
stressing the trailing edge bend.
Leo Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine connections? |
> It does, however, have a threaded
> port on the TOP of the back that is vertically oriented. Is this where it
> goes? This port looks to be a larger size than the one mentioned in the
> manual. I guess Lycoming made an engineering change and forgot to
> update their manual.
>
That's where it goes. I had the same question on mine. The manual shows the
engine without the spin-on filter pad, which is why it looks different from
the engine itself. My partner just bought a new Cont. 0-470, and we were
amazed that even today, they manufacture engines without a spin-on filter.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
| Subject: | Re: VOR / Glideslope / Marker Beacon Antennas |
Some generic info:
I dont know anything about the specific antenna's discussed here, but
polarization has nothing to do with the radio(transmitter or receiver) but
rather with the antenna. A signal transmitted via a vertically polarized
antenna should be received with a vertically polarized antenna (and of
course horizontal to horizontal) for best performance.
Here at work (Navy R&D lab), when dealing with signals of unknown
polarization, or multiple sources with different polarization through a
single receive antenna, we set our receive antenna at 45 degree
polarization. This results in a 3dB loss (50% reduction) of receive signal
for both horizontally and vertically polarized signals.
Of course there are other variables which affect antenna performance,
including antenna design, position relative to ground plane, match to
transmitter/receiver, etc...
A good reference for theory which is applicable to antenna design is the
ARRL Antenna Book and is available from any good ham radio outlet.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Haan <bobh(at)cdac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder trailing edge bend |
>If you have access to the Archives, messages 241, 248-249, 260, 286 address
>this. The author relates a specific test flight incidence and what he did
>to correct it. If you can not find them using the message numbers, the
>dates are around the end of April of 1991...
>
How do you access the archive by message number using netscape?
Bob Haan
bobh(at)cdac.com
Portland, OR
RV6A working on the fuselage frame
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carrabell(at)aol.com |
The wreckage was once a migit mustang
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael A. Pilla" <pilla(at)exit109.com> |
| Subject: | Glass Bead Blasting of Steel: Lesson Learned |
While building my RV-4, I have had my steel parts glass bead blasted just
prior to the p-word (oh, oh, priming :-)
Well, I took my engine mount and landing gear for the treatment, primed
the parts leaving "bare" the axle and "mount" points per Van's instructions.
What I learned is that the axle was not slightly bigger in diameter and
the wheel bearings would not slide over the axle. Apparently, the glass
bead blasting provides little hills and valleys. I should have masked off
the axle area; isn't hindsight great?
At any rate, it took a little over six hours of working the axles with
240, 320, 400, and crocus cloth to get the smooth slide fit of the wheel
bearings. I used very light oil instead of water on the "wet or dry" paper
and the result is great.
Thought I would share my wasted day in the shop to save some other poor soul
the trouble.
Mike Pilla
RV-4, #2866, fuse on its own gear for the first time - looks great
Michael Pilla
pilla(at)exit109.com
v: (908) 566-7604
f: (908) 566-7936
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harold Sutphin <hsutphin(at)magicnet.net> |
| Subject: | RV-6/6A Flap motor - Service Bulletin |
I read the following note in Sport Aviation Magazine(Dec 96 issue)
Aviation News column. It is a little confusing as it says "all" then
goes on to say RV-6 aircraft are not affected.:
Harold
"Van's Aircraft Inc. has asked that we pass along the following
information to RV-6/RV-6A builder/owners."
"Synopsis: The manufacturer of the motor/drive assembly used in the
RV6/6A electric flap installation is recalling all flap motor
assemblies. The actuator arms of these components have been drilled at
right angles to an existing hole, resulting in two intersecting holes
that they fear may not provide sufficient strength. Although no service
difficulties arising from this aspect of the electric flap installation
have ever been reported to Van's Aircraft, Inc., we are requesting the
return of all electric flap motor/drive assemblies for the RV-6/6A."
"This bulletin does not affect RV-6 aircraft."
"Action: Notify Van's Aircraft Inc. of your intention to replace a
flap motor and ask to be placed on the list for a replacement motor.
Upon receipt of the motor, use the package to return the original motor
to the manufacturer for correction and provide it to another person on
the list. Van's will be rotating the factory reconditioned motors at a
reasonable rate."
"Van's Aircraft can be reached by calling 503/647-5117; Fax
503/647-2206."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: Access to Archives |
>--------------
> ARGGGHHH.....! After I type my search word and enter, I get a
>message that says "bad HTML no form action defined". Huh, wha- what does
>that mean?
>
>Ron (cyberdumb)Vandervort,RV-6q
>rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us
>Seattle area
>--------------
Ron et al,
Sorry about that. This too has been fixed now. Please give it another try.
Matt
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Problems On The Web... |
Hi everybody,
If you ever have problems accessing the Matronics web pages or any of the
bitmaps, videos, archives, search or whatever, please send an email
message to me describing the problem as soon as possible. Don't think, "Oh,
someone else surely has reported this already." I generally depend on
people using the pages to tell me when something is broken.
Send your reports to:
dralle(at)matronics.com
and try to describe the problem in as detailed a manner as possible.
While I have been very happy with this ISP, they seem to have a knack for
changing things like directory structures around every once in a while and
breaking a number of things on my web pages.
Thanks again!
Matt Dralle
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen) |
| Subject: | RV-3 firewall to prop distance |
I'm now starting to make the engine mount for my Mazda 13B engine.
I've studied the plans but have not found any dimensions showing the
distance from the firewall to the prop push plate (? - this would
normally be the most forward of the prop extention). The best I can do
is take measurements of off the 1/4" full plane sideview drawing (1?).
Seems like 33.5". Does anybody have the exact distance?
Finn
finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
| Subject: | Access to Archives |
For Matt,
Thanks for your responce. I tried again and got the same bad HTML
message.....
Ron Vandervort,RV-6Q
rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us
Seattle area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/6A Flap motor - Service Bulletin |
<< I read the following note in Sport Aviation Magazine(Dec 96 issue)
Aviation News column. It is a little confusing as it says "all" then
goes on to say RV-6 aircraft are not affected.:
Harold
"Van's Aircraft Inc. has asked that we pass along the following
information to RV-6/RV-6A builder/owners."
"Synopsis: The manufacturer of the motor/drive assembly used in the
RV6/6A electric flap installation is recalling all flap motor
assemblies. The actuator arms of these components have been drilled at
right angles to an existing hole, resulting in two intersecting holes
that they fear may not provide sufficient strength. Although no service
difficulties arising from this aspect of the electric flap installation
have ever been reported to Van's Aircraft, Inc., we are requesting the
return of all electric flap motor/drive assemblies for the RV-6/6A."
"This bulletin does not affect RV-6 aircraft." >>
Wrongo. It does affect all RV-6/6A. The new RVator says "this bulletin does
not affect RV-4 aircraft". Must be a typo in SAM.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Glass Bead Blasting of Steel: Lesson Learned |
<< At any rate, it took a little over six hours of working the axles with
240, 320, 400, and crocus cloth to get the smooth slide fit of the wheel
bearings. I used very light oil instead of water on the "wet or dry" paper
and the result is great. >>
The biggest surprise when I worked on the last -6 was when the bearings
actually fit over the axles. Your problem is not rare, by any means.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
In the 1997 AIM 5-4-20 VISUAL APPROACH they refer to
"14 CFR 91.155". Anybody know what that's all about?
Why not just "FAR 91.155". The answer to this question
is directly related to RV-4's as it will make me a
better RV-4 pilot. :-) Any experts out there? John A.?
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Glass Bead Blasting of Steel: Lesson Learned |
This is not due to the bead blasting.
All of the axles are over size and you have to sand them down with
emry cloth. Maybe the very newest ones are sized properly but I
know all the older kits required the sanding.
Herman
> While building my RV-4, I have had my steel parts glass bead blasted just
> prior to the p-word (oh, oh, priming :-)
>
> Well, I took my engine mount and landing gear for the treatment, primed
> the parts leaving "bare" the axle and "mount" points per Van's instructions.
>
> What I learned is that the axle was not slightly bigger in diameter and
> the wheel bearings would not slide over the axle. Apparently, the glass
> bead blasting provides little hills and valleys. I should have masked off
> the axle area; isn't hindsight great?
>
> At any rate, it took a little over six hours of working the axles with
> 240, 320, 400, and crocus cloth to get the smooth slide fit of the wheel
> bearings. I used very light oil instead of water on the "wet or dry" paper
> and the result is great.
>
> Thought I would share my wasted day in the shop to save some other poor soul
> the trouble.
>
> Mike Pilla
> RV-4, #2866, fuse on its own gear for the first time - looks great
> Michael Pilla
> pilla(at)exit109.com
> v: (908) 566-7604
> f: (908) 566-7936
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-3 firewall to prop distance |
<< I'm now starting to make the engine mount for my Mazda 13B engine.
I've studied the plans but have not found any dimensions showing the
distance from the firewall to the prop push plate (? - this would
normally be the most forward of the prop extention). The best I can do
is take measurements of off the 1/4" full plane sideview drawing (1?).
Seems like 33.5". Does anybody have the exact distance?
Finn
>>
Hello All,
I measured my Lycoming cowl at 34 1/2 inches. The back edge mounts about 1
inch in front of the firewall, and the front surface of the prop extension to
the front cowl ring needs 1" to provide 1/4" to 3/8" spinner clearance. Or
approximately, 36 1/2".
That would make the firewall to prop flange distance about 48" on my LOM
engine.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DMusgrave(at)swri.edu |
charset=US-ASCII
Dan Boudro Wrote:
|
| In the 1997 AIM 5-4-20 VISUAL APPROACH they refer to
| "14 CFR 91.155". Anybody know what that's all about?
| Why not just "FAR 91.155". The answer to this question
| is directly related to RV-4's as it will make me a
| better RV-4 pilot. :-) Any experts out there? John A.?
Hi Dan. No "expert" here, but the CFR refers to the Code of
Federal Regulations, THE LAW. It's a BIG set of books that represents
the law of the land. The FARs are just a section of the CFR (Vol 14).
I believe the CFR is the sum total of
federal law. Attorneys out there: N'cest pas?
My legal opinions, as a professional engineer!!!!
Dave Musgrave
DMusgrave(at)SwRI.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov> |
"14 CFR" refers to Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations which is a part
of the "general and permanent rules published in the federal register by
executive departments and federal agencies." Title 14 is "aeronautics
and space." It contains not only FARs but DOT, and National Aeronautics
and Space Administration Regulations.
Also of interest is Title 49 which is "transportation." Title 49
contains the part 830 series which are the NTSB regulations.
Aviation people commonly refer to "part xx" which is simply an
abbreviation. Title 14 CFR is assumed.
Mitch Robbins
robbinm(at)chi.ntsb.gov
----------
From: owner-rv-list[SMTP:owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 1996 12:10 PM
Subject: RV-List: Question on AIM
In the 1997 AIM 5-4-20 VISUAL APPROACH they refer to
"14 CFR 91.155". Anybody know what that's all about?
Why not just "FAR 91.155". The answer to this question
is directly related to RV-4's as it will make me a
better RV-4 pilot. :-) Any experts out there? John A.?
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
In Van's plans for the RV-4 he hints at a heater hose for the back seat but
does not go into detail about where to put the hole through the spar. I
have wires running through a 3/4 inch hole in the spar plate and feel like
it's the size of a well. Does making holes in the spar plate lessen the
strength?? I know most of the force on the spar is on the area bolted to
the fuselage but drilling a TWO INCH HOLE in the spar plate makes me
nervous. This may be in the archives but I am having problems getting the
search engine to fire.
Micheal
RV-4 232SQ
mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Yablon <brian(at)lanart.com> |
| Subject: | Oil Canning survey results (finally!)... |
Re: Oil Canning survey results (finally!)...
Sorry this is so late in coming. I was called out of town for the
past couple of weeks and now that I'm back it has taken me a few days
to get caught up here at work.
To refresh your memory, the questions asked were:
1) If you have a flying RV, can you demonstrate oil canning in the
elevator/rudder when the plane is parked on the ramp (e.g. push
in here, and it pops out there)?
2) If so, does this oil canning affect you in flight at all (funny
pitching moments, oscillations, stick pulsations, etc.)?
These questions prompted lots of concern, comments and suggestions
from current builders. Unfortunately, only 8 folks with flying
airplanes responded to the poll, so this survey can hardly be
considered an exhaustive scientific study. Any conclusions I draw are
pretty weak ones, but here goes:
The table columns are:
Plane - aircraft type
PP - prepunched or not
Flying - hours flying (or 'no' if still under construction).
Oil Canning - Is oil canning present? Where?
Control FX - Are there oddities in the feel of the controls?
Flight Char - Are there anomalies in the flight characteristics?
Plane PP? Flying? Oil Canning? Control FX? Flight Char?
----- --- ------- ------------ ---------- ------------
RV-6 no yes none none none
RV-6 ? <100 none slt alrn twitch none
RV-6A no <800 none none none
RV-6 no 6+ yrs none none none
RV-4 no 700 ? none none
RV-6 no 140 L. elevator none none
RV-6 no yes yes none none
RV-6 ? 76 aileron (damage) none none
RV-6A yes no yes ? ?
RV-8 yes no yes ? ?
RV-6 yes no yes ? ?
RV-8 yes no yes ? ?
>From this tiny sample we can see that prepunched kits are more likely
to experience oil canning than unpunched kits. Because prepunched
kits are somewhat new, and the prepunched respondees are not yet
flying, we don't know the extent to which the oil canning will affect
flight in these new kits.
Of the older unpunched kits, some report slight oil canning and others
report none. In all cases, no control or flight anomalies are
reported. The exception is an RV-6 with no oil canning that reports a
slight aileron twitch in roll maneuvers. The twitch seems to be
damped by application of rudder.
It would seem that few aircraft experience flight and control
anomalies due to oil-canning. (The ones that we do hear about are
often the result of repaired damage.) So for the builder with an
unpunched kit, there appears to be little to worry about.
BUT...
Of particular interest is the high incidence of oil canning that
prepunched builders (myself included) are experiencing, as compared to
our unpunched counterparts.
Why is this? The prevailing wisdom is that the new pre-punched skins
do not give one the latitude to stretch the skins taught, since they
are pre-drilled to the punched spars. Even though out of the box, the
skins seemed to be nice and tight, dimpling the skins for the
stiffeners stretches (or "quilts") them slightly, and this slack has
no place to go once the skins are riveted in place. Some builders
have minimized oil-canning by drilling the skins to a flat surface (as
illustrated in Orndorff's videos) and weighting down the flat skin
between the drill lines with bucking bars.
Many suggestions were made on how to reduce/eliminate oil-canning once
present. These include using RTV to reduce slop in the stiffeners, or
injecting expanding urethane foam into the control surfaces, and
rebalancing. No one actually claimed success with either method.
The Big Question is whether oil canning in prepunched kits is worse
than the oil canning in unpunched kits, and further, whether it
adversely affects flight in a way not heretofore seen in unpunched
kits. More data points would probably help clear this up.
Again, the observations are based on virtually no data, so this is
obviously not intended to indict prepunched kits or to spark
widespread alarm and panic. It IS intended to promote some good
discussion. All comments are welcome.
-Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com
Framingham, MA
RV6A #24751
Trim tab #2...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Looking for Noel Drew - all others can ignore |
Noel, I read the article about your RV-6 in the RVator.
Congratulations.
I would like to ask you some questions, could you respond to me at
jwentz@columbia-center.org please?
Don 'The Duck' Wentz, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-3 firewall to prop distance |
<< I'm now starting to make the engine mount for my Mazda 13B engine.
I've studied the plans but have not found any dimensions showing the
distance from the firewall to the prop push plate (? - this would
normally be the most forward of the prop extention). The best I can do
is take measurements of off the 1/4" full plane sideview drawing (1?).
Seems like 33.5". Does anybody have the exact distance?
>>
If you will be using an engine other than an O-235/O-320 in your RV-3 you
will need to determine the installed weight of the engine and base your
location of the prop not on firewall/prop distance but on how this change
will effect the empty weight/CG range of the aircraft. I would think that
the Mazda engine with PRU and coolant to weigh more than an O-320 setup
therefore you will need to (1) Move the engine closer to the firewall, or (2)
Put weight in the tail section to off-set the difference. I would try to
avoid putting weight in the tail.
Talk to Alan Tole for advice.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC, NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael A. Pilla" <pilla(at)exit109.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Glass Bead Blasting of Steel: Lesson Learned |
> This is not due to the bead blasting.
> All of the axles are over size and you have to sand them down with
> emry cloth. Maybe the very newest ones are sized properly but I
> know all the older kits required the sanding.
> Herman
What I left out of the original post was that I tried fitting the
wheels to the axles prior to bead blasting and the fit was an "almost"
fit; i.e., the rear bearing was able to go about one half inch past
the threaded end.
After glass bead blasting, the rear bearing would not go past the threaded
end, at all. Since surface corrosion had been removed by the bead blasting,
which should have resulted in a slightly *better* fit, the fact that the fit
was *worse* implied, to me, that there were some "pock marks" in the metal;
i.e., the glass beads "pushed" the metal around a little bit.
Mike
Michael Pilla
pilla(at)exit109.com
v: (908) 566-7604
f: (908) 566-7936
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dann_Parks(at)KTEH.pbs.org (Dann Parks) |
I'm fitting the skins to my RV6 HS and noticed that DWG 3PP says you should
trim away some of the 601PP skin and part of the HS404 rib flange to aviod
interference with the "tang" on the HS614 channel. This seems a shame to do
this as it must add a stress point to the skin and reduce the strenght of the
HS root since the HS404 rib is cut away from the HS602 spar too. It also
leaves a rivet right on the edge of the material (or even through the edge)
-- not good either.
Drawing 34 seems to show the the "tang" on HS614 isn't really necessary
anyway as the attachment to the fuselage happens inboard of the HS root. For
those who have mounted the HS, whats the scoop here? Am I reading this right.
Can the "Tang" just be cut off at the HS root (or built that way from the
beginning)? I'm not trying to re-engineer the thing, but there certainly are
ways to make it easier and stronger and NOT cutting odd little shapes in the
skin seems better to me.
Thanks,
Dann Parks
dann_parks(at)kteh.pbs.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James K. Hurd" <hurd(at)riolink.com> |
| Subject: | Spray Gun for Priming |
Time to prime. My 3.5 HP/11 gal compresser ain't going to push enough
air for the HVLP guns others are using. Archives mention "touch up"
guns available from Sears, et al. How much air do these puppies need
and does anyone have a recommendation on a make/model? (Packrats ate my
Sears catalog and nearest store is 100 miles away.)
Jim Hurd hurd(at)riolink.com Mananaville, NM
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-3 firewall to prop distance |
Gary,
Tracy Crook's RV-4 firewall forward setup fit under the stock cowl and came
out lighter (I believe about 20 pounds) than the lightest (honestly weighed
and not guessed) Lycoming powered RV he was able to locate. He kept his cg
within limits by moving his coolers as far forward as possible.
If you take a look at Alan Tolle's RV-3 you will see that the nose is quite
a bit longer than a stock setup. Alan told me that the mount he is using was
originally designed for the Powersport Superlight Rotary. With the current
Mazda based engine the airplane is slightly nose heavy. Alan and Everett
Hatch both stated that when this engine is installed in Everett's RV-4 with
a similar nose moment that the cg is right on.
All of the previous is somewhat meaningless for Finn's case because his
Ross psru is quite a bit longer than the Powersport psru so the cg (measured
from the prop flange) for his powerplant system is slightly further aft.
Obviously as you stated initially the critical thing is to know what your
firewall forward weight and cg is so that it can be placed appropriately to
maintain aircraft cg.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
> I would think that the Mazda engine with PRU and coolant to weigh more
than >an O-320 setup therefore you will need to (1) Move the engine closer
to the >firewall, or (2) Put weight in the tail section to off-set the
difference.
>
>Talk to Alan Tole for advice.
>
>Gary Corde
>RV-6 N211GC, NJ
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I am a RV-8 builder new to the rv-list(I just requested subscription). I just
got off the phone with the factory and thought some of you RV-8 builders
might like to know what they told me. Van's just received the first four
spars. They are going to ship all the first spars to the builders who have
NOT already received the partial wing kit. She also said that they are
thinking of holding up shipping the fuselage kit until the design of a NOSE
Gear RV-8 is finished. She thought that might be APRIL. I suggested to her
that those of us building tail wheel versions should not have to wait until
then. She said some people in their company agree with me. Good luck to you
RV builders out there. N95MF(at)aol.com (RV-8 tail done, ailerons & flaps
done-waitng for spar and fuselage).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Canning survey results (finally!)... |
>Of particular interest is the high incidence of oil canning that
>prepunched builders (myself included) are experiencing, as compared to
>our unpunched counterparts.
>
>Why is this?
Here's my experience so far, FWIW. I hope it may provide a little insight,
and help people avoid the mistakes I've made.
I am building my rudder (RV-6, Pre-punched), and just finished rivetting
stiffeners to one side of the skin. I'm unhappy to report that I have some
oilcanning at the TE of the skin, near one of my stiffeners.
Here's how this happened:
1. Dimpling the last hole (ie the one nearest the TE) in the stiffener, I
didn't have the skin entirely flat, due to the bending effect of the other
half of the skin. So I ended up with an outline of the dimple die pressed
into the skin, raised on one side of the holes and indented on the other.
:-( Since I didn't check how these looked after dimpling them, I did this to
several of the TE stiffener holes on that side.
2. I hoped that during rivetting, the skin would be flattened by being
pressed against the back-rivetting plate. NOT SO! The rivet set crookedly
and I drilled it out.
3. At the other crooked dimples I simply pressed the skin into shape using
my fingers... that worked fine, and I have no oil-canning with any of them.
4. Since my bad rivet/dimple the TE one, it was the last to be done. So I
had a stiffener rivetted in place which prevented me using my fingers to
reshape the skin. I tried using a hammer and drift to gently tap the skin
into shape... not easy under the fold of the skin! That worked more or less
OK, but flattened the dimple, so I redid the dimple using the Avery tool
(again gentle taps). After this, the skin and dimple looked OK, and I
rivetted it OK.
However, flexing the skin, I hear a 'clack' noise as the skin flexes away
from the stiffener, and again as it flexes toward it. Pressing firmly with
my fingers in the TE area of the stiffener in question also displays
oil-canning over a small area (perhaps a couple of square inches).
I'm hoping that when the other side has its stiffeners added, and the TE is
squeezed down and RTV added, this will go away. Anyone else been in this
situation to confirm my hopes and/or suggest other remedies?
Frank.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dann_Parks(at)KTEH.pbs.org (Dann Parks) |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Canning survey results (finally!)... |
Interesting information, Brian. I am building my control surfaces now (PP) and
am considering using the 3M high-bond tape to attach the stiffeners rather
than riveting. This would eliminate any stretch and buldging of the skin
which may be the source of the oil canning. It also give a smooth skin and
eliminates potential cracks at the trailing edge rivet. I have samples and
spec sheets on the tape and am doing some tests (albeit unscientific).
Strenght is not a problem -- it's stronger than rivets, but longevity in this
application is unknown. Temperature extremes are covered in the specs and I
am getting more info on current applications. I'll post additional info as I
get it together. If others are interested or have comments, feel free to
email me privately. (I know this was discussed a few months back, but there
are always new folks coming on and others might have missed the thread.)
Thanks,
Dann Parks
dann_parks(at)kteh.pbs.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dann_Parks(at)KTEH.pbs.org (Dann Parks) |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Canning survey results (finally!)... |
Interesting information, Brian. I am building my control surfaces now (PP) and
am considering using the 3M high-bond tape to attach the stiffeners rather
than riveting. This would eliminate any stretch and buldging of the skin
which may be the source of the oil canning. It also give a smooth skin and
eliminates potential cracks at the trailing edge rivet. I have samples and
spec sheets on the tape and am doing some tests (albeit unscientific).
Strenght is not a problem -- it's stronger than rivets, but longevity in this
application is unknown. Temperature extremes are covered in the specs and I
am getting more info on current applications. I'll post additional info as I
get it together. If others are interested or have comments, feel free to
email me privately. (I know this was discussed a few months back, but there
are always new folks coming on and others might have missed the thread.)
Thanks,
Dann Parks
dann_parks(at)kteh.pbs.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fegg2251(at)uwwvax.uww.edu |
| Subject: | Re: hand vs pneumatic rivet squeezer |
just received rebuilt pnematic squeezer from action air parts 810-364-5885
appears to be in great condition and can see the new grease. Anxious to test it
late tonight. they were very quick to ship. price 249.50.
wfeggestad(at)verlo.com
rv-6 emmpenage
________________________________________________________________________________
charset=US-ASCII
I had the same thoughts and concerns. I checked with Van's, and it is OK
to put a hole thru the spar web and bulkheads to run a 2" SCAT tube. It
isn't a structural issue because the bars between the spar strips take up
all the compression loads.
The tricky part is to figure out where to put the hole so it will miss all
the important stuff that you have to leave alone. I ended up tracing the
location of the forward bulkhead, rear bulkhead, spar web, and all
reinforcing angles, spar strips, bars between spar strips, etc. (I don't
have the plans in front of me, so I can't give you part numbers) on a piece
of Plexiglas. The Plexiglas had some of the spar bolt holes drilled in it
so I could maintain the correct alignment between parts. Once this is done,
you can see that there is one place where you can put the SCAT tube (and
it is not much larger than the SCAT tube). Drill a small hole in the
Plexiglas where you want the center of the SCAT tube to be. Put the
Plexiglas back on the parts and use this hole as a guide for the pilot hole
for cutting the hole for the SCAT tube. I also used this technique on the
holes for wires. I did this during spar construction, when it is really
easy to do.
General advice to those building wings: If you have room, build both wings
at the same time. Build them in one long jig with the spars clamped in
place so the dihedral is taken out. Plumb lines through the holes in the
spar centerline are used as the reference to set up the spar in the jig.
Level both tips with a water tube level. Stretch a string from tip to tip,
even with the spar web. Use this to level the spar root to the tips and
take any droop out of the middle. Carefully set up and align the tip ribs
on both wings. You can then run strings from tip to tip and use the
strings as a reference to align all the other ribs. Be careful using the
tooling holes as the rib centerline reference. The tooling holes in my
ribs were not always exactly on the rib centerline. My main reference for
the leading edge ribs was the upper flange, about 3" back from the leading
edge radius.
John Watkins
RV-4
skinning wings
jwatkins@natick-amed02.army.mil
-------------
Original Text
From: dimensional.com!mikel(at)matronics.com, on 12/10/96 11:53 AM:
In Van's plans for the RV-4 he hints at a heater hose for the back seat but
does not go into detail about where to put the hole through the spar. I
have wires running through a 3/4 inch hole in the spar plate and feel like
it's the size of a well. Does making holes in the spar plate lessen the
strength?? I know most of the force on the spar is on the area bolted to
the fuselage but drilling a TWO INCH HOLE in the spar plate makes me
nervous. This may be in the archives but I am having problems getting the
search engine to fire.
Micheal
RV-4 232SQ
mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder trailing edge bend |
In a message dated 96-12-09 i wrote:
> In most areas, a straight edge laid perpendicular
> to the trailing edge shows 1/32" to 1/16" distance between the straight
edge
> and the skin just forward of where the trailing edge starts. This is not
> very much space, but the skin is not perfectly flat per the instructions.
>
> Is this a problem?
I thought you listers might be interested in Van's reply. Tom at Van's said:
Subj: Re: Rudder trailing edge bend
Date: 96-12-09 11:26:49 EST
From: 76455.1602(at)CompuServe.COM (Vangrunsven)
It sounds VERY good Tim, it would be very difficult to make it perfect and
what
Van tries to avoid is a much worse situation than you have described... tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spray Gun for Priming |
I uses a Sharp HVLP gravity feed gun to paint my RV4 and I used
a 2 HP compressor and it worked just fine.
I don't recall the specs on air flow but I did not run out.
Are you talking about priming piece parts or the entire assembled
aircraft? If you prime like most of us, it is piece parts so you
don't need a large compressor.
The 2HP worked fine when I painted the plane. It was painted in
pieces (wings, ailerons, flaps, etc.) across several days.
Herman
dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
> Time to prime. My 3.5 HP/11 gal compresser ain't going to push enough
> air for the HVLP guns others are using. Archives mention "touch up"
> guns available from Sears, et al. How much air do these puppies need
> and does anyone have a recommendation on a make/model? (Packrats ate my
> Sears catalog and nearest store is 100 miles away.)
>
> Jim Hurd hurd(at)riolink.com Mananaville, NM
> RV6A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Spray Gun for Priming |
| From: | Bill Watson <watson1(at)apple.com> |
> Archives mention "touch up"
>guns available from Sears, et al. How much air do these puppies need
>and does anyone have a recommendation on a make/model? (Packrats ate my
>Sears catalog and nearest store is 100 miles away.)
Look in the Harbor Freight Catalog; it has a small cup, but it otherwise
looks like a typical spray gun. About $26. Some other tool stores have
the same thing and usually charge about $35. Your compressor should be
just fine.
Bill Watson
RV6A
watson1(at)apple.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
The October RVator arrived today. Imagine my relief upon discovering that
I still have two months until Christmas.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
Trimming the canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)bala.HAC.COM (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Canning survey results (finally!)... |
*** big snip ***
>
>BUT...
>
>Of particular interest is the high incidence of oil canning that
>prepunched builders (myself included) are experiencing, as compared to
>our unpunched counterparts.
>Why is this? The prevailing wisdom is that the new pre-punched skins
>do not give one the latitude to stretch the skins taught, since they
>are pre-drilled to the punched spars. Even though out of the box, the
>skins seemed to be nice and tight, dimpling the skins for the
>stiffeners stretches (or "quilts") them slightly, and this slack has
>no place to go once the skins are riveted in place. Some builders
>have minimized oil-canning by drilling the skins to a flat surface (as
>illustrated in Orndorff's videos) and weighting down the flat skin
>between the drill lines with bucking bars.
Brian,
Why would "prevailing wisdom" think that dimpling distortion is
more for a pre-punched skin than for the 'old' skins. As long as there is
no distortion caused by the punching (and my casual observation of new tail
kits shows nice, flat skins), the dimpling stretch effect should be the
same. How hard I hit my Avery Dimpling tool and how big a hammer I use
would have much more effect.
How about "hitting too hard with spring-back dies" as being part of
the problem? I would guess that most of the flying RVs built their tail
sections with the 'old-fashioned' flat dies.
... just some more thoughts ....
..... Gil (I prefer my old dies) Alexander
PS. almost 50% of the RVs I've visited as EAA Technical Counselor have not
done a good job dimpling (but are still structurally sound).
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
gila(at)flash.net
RV6A, #20701
.. ready to fibreglass canopy as soon as the rain stops and
it warms up a bit ...
>-Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Spray Gun for Priming |
My 4.5/20 Compressor can keep up with my normal Cambell/Hausefield general
purpose spray gun (and gain slowly). The touch-up gun is very similar, with a
smaller jar (4 oz?), and they can be had anywhere that has spray guns under
various brand names (Did you think that Sears manufactures ALL the stuff they
sell?) i.e. just about any home center store.
Remember that if you use an inline oiler, you can't use the hose it is
attached to because it will contaminate the air going into the brush. A
Filter isn't a bad idea either. My compressor came with an extra regulator
which I put right at the brush.
For a really small air brush, you can get an adaptor to hook a Badger hobby
airbush to a 1/4" NPT fitting. Those run at 20 PSI max, and come with a 1 oz
jar. In fact, I just bought a kit for $20 at Home Base and it included the
adaptor.
--
(Sorry Randall, no more room for the Yakko Warner quote)
Richard Chandler
RV-6: Garage bought, saving for tools and tail kit (Christmas?).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spray Gun for Priming |
>Time to prime. My 3.5 HP/11 gal compresser ain't going to push enough
>air for the HVLP guns others are using.
James:
Binks make several conversion HLVP guns that will work with small
compressors. GenevaI did a lot of research
and recedntly purchased the Binks M1-G. It is a gravity feed HVLP gun
that will work off a small 3-5 HP compressor. It complies with all air
quality regulations with very low over spray and a 65% transfer
efficiency. It requires only 18 lbs. of inlet pressure. It will handle
all types of materials including waterborne and high solids as fast as
a conventional gun with a 50% material savings. (Water based, high
solid materia;s are of interest to me because we are using the new Deft
primer on the GlaStar.
Conversion HVLP paint systems are a lot more efficient than turbine
guns. Binks model BKS 98-1121 will work on a 1 1/2 HP compressor and
will still vaporize waterbased coatings, many without thinning. Most
turbine systems will only handle a few of the waterbased coatings and
they have to be thinned.
The Mach 1 guns also can be converted for use as a conventional spray
gun.
The EPA is slowly forcing paintshops to go to HVLP equipment. The
turbine guns are very expensive and out of consideration for an
occassional paint job and they do not work all that well with high
solid or water based compounds. They have an added disadvantage of
blowing hot air which tends to dry the finish.
I kind of assumed that all HVLP guns were equally as expensive or took
a lot of added equipment until I saw a very informative ad by A&I
Supply (800 260-2647) which included a matrix comparing the Binks
conversion system with a turbine HVLP on various points. I gave Binks
a call (800 99-2-4657) and talked to their techies and marketing people
and got their brochures and after reading them called A & I and talked
to their tech guys. They recommended the gravity feed gun which will
work with a small 3-5 HP conpressor with a 25-30 gallon tank which is
probably what most of us have. They sell that gun for $269 which is not
much more than the DeVilbis gun Cleaveland offers and you will probably
save the difference in materials.(They ship free over $50.00).
It is more expensive than what you will find at Home Depot or Sears,
but if you want a quality gun at a good price you can't beat it.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bseckstein(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Canning survey results (finally!)... |
Frank,
Regarding the oil canning, I'm happy to report that the silicone stopped the
one oil canning problem that I had. I was back riveting the last rivet on a
rudder stiffener and I didn't realize that the backing plate was not long
enough. I'm very lucky that I didn't blow right though the skin. It did
dent it, which took a while to repair, and even then had an oil can problem.
After applying the silicone, it was ok, the oil can was no more.
good luck
Brian Eckstein
6A, endlessly cleaning up spar flange strips.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com (Stephen Paul Johnson) |
| Subject: | Re: Spray Gun for Priming |
Jim wrote:
>
>Time to prime. My 3.5 HP/11 gal compresser ain't going to push enough
>air for the HVLP guns others are using. Archives mention "touch up"
>guns available from Sears, et al. How much air do these puppies need
>and does anyone have a recommendation on a make/model? (Packrats ate
my
>Sears catalog and nearest store is 100 miles away.)
>
>Jim Hurd hurd(at)riolink.com Mananaville, NM
>RV6A
>
>
Jim, I have had excellent luck with the DeVilbiss touch-up spray gun
SG-610 from Cleaveland. At $144 it's expensive, but the results I get
are excellent. I'm using Sherwin Williams Industrial Wash at the 2 to
1 ratio recommended by Van's. The best air pressure is 30-40 pounds.
This will take me through priming and painting the interior, and
depending on how the stock market does in the next few years, I may
have the finish painting done professionally.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121 Right Elevator
________________________________________________________________________________
<< In Van's plans for the RV-4 he hints at a heater hose for the back seat
but
does not go into detail about where to put the hole through the spar. I >>
Look carefully at the front & rear drawings of your #4 bulkhead, and you will
see that there is only one place to put that 2" hole. It's tight, but
do-able. Your G.I.B. will thank you for the heat on those high altitude
flights.
As for strength, the demonstrated gross wt on my bird is 1950 lb. (I've had
it that heavy, and it flew) with an EW of 1190 lb, and it has those holes on
BOTH sides. It also has a VNE of 275. And a six cylinder engine. Engineer
types tell me that the strength is more towards the outer sfcs/flanges of the
spar, and the web is there only to keep these sfcs aligned.
Look at the size of the holes you have drilled on the outer spar!
Personally, I worry more about p r i m e r. ;-)
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jbrick(at)wolfenet.com |
| Subject: | Re: Question on AIM |
Dan, The FAR ident is for people in the know. For someone totally ignorant
of FARs, they would probably do better at the library to start with 14 CFR
(code of federal regulations) which the FARs come under...I think.
John Brick
jbrick(at)wolfenet.com
>In the 1997 AIM 5-4-20 VISUAL APPROACH they refer to
>"14 CFR 91.155". Anybody know what that's all about?
>Why not just "FAR 91.155". The answer to this question
>is directly related to RV-4's as it will make me a
>better RV-4 pilot. :-) Any experts out there? John A.?
>
>Dan Boudro
>RV-4 N9167Z
>Albuquerque, NM
>dboudro(at)nmia.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
>--------------
>Matt:
>
>How are you doing on the CD ROM project? Will I be able to give it to
>myself for Christmas?
>
>-Elon elon.o(at)worldnet.att.net
>--------------
Elon and Listers,
Well there's good news and bad news. The good news is that development of the
new RV-List Search Engine has progressed extremely well and I am very happy
with the program so far. I am writing both the Macintosh and Windows versions
simultaneously using a cross compiler. However, the cross development has
slowed progress some what do to differences in the underlying operating
systems and the fact that cross compilers really are everything they should
be... Much of the code still must be customized for the respective platform.
At any rate, excellent progress so far, and *very* impressive search
performance as well.
The bad news (for the CDRom development) is that I'm in production mode now
on the FuelScan systems due to a sudden surge of sales over the last couple of
months. While this is certainly great news for the FuelScan (the Matronics'
bread-n-butter) it has meant that the CDRom/Software development is a bit on
the back burner until stock numbers are up to a comfortable level.
So what's the bottom line? Well, release in time for Christmas is unlikely,
but I'm projecting soon after the first of the year; probably in January
sometime.
Thanks for your continued interest in the CDRom and Search Engine. I'll post
more information and release annoucments to the List as it becomes available.
Matt Dralle
Matronics
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: Access to Archives |
>--------------
>For Matt,
> Thanks for your responce. I tried again and got the same bad HTML
>message.....
>
>Ron Vandervort,RV-6Q
>rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us
>Seattle area
>--------------
I think it has something to do with the load on the ISP's server. If the
search take too long (due to high levels of other use at the time) it appears
that the Web server (or browser) gives up waiting for the data. I tried it
a number of times today most of the time received the expected results. A
couple of times I got an error message back similar to the one you described.
I suspect the the ISP may be making some modifications to their system that
could account for the problem; I can't get them to admit to it, but then again
I really havn't put them on the spot about it either.
For now, keep trying. If you are still having the same kinds of problems
in a week, let me know.
BTW, there were some major Internet routing problems in the San Francisco Bay
area networks this afternoon (Tuesday, December 10). Many sites were not
and email to Matronics may have been affected by the problems. Everything
seems to have been cleared up by about 7:00PM.
Matt Dralle
RV-List Admin.
Matronics
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JHTH " <JHTH(at)msn.com> |
I can't find a local vendor for Vari Prime.
Does anyone have a phone number or address of a vendor that carries this
product?
Thanks!
John Hall
jhth(at)msn.com
RV-8 #80227
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net> |
Dave Barnhart wrote:
>
> The October RVator arrived today. Imagine my relief upon discovering that
> I still have two months until Christmas.
Just out of curiosity, I was wondering if anyone knows why the last
RVator was stapled like a handout instead of a magazine?
--Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sheinlein(at)VNET.IBM.COM |
| Subject: | Oil Canning survey results (finally)... |
>However, flexing the skin, I hear a 'clack' noise as the skin flexes away
>from the stiffener, and again as it flexes toward it. Pressing firmly with
>my fingers in the TE area of the stiffener in question also displays
>oil-canning over a small area (perhaps a couple of square inches).
>
>I'm hoping that when the other side has its stiffeners added, and the TE is
>squeezed down and RTV added, this will go away. Anyone else been in this
>situation to confirm my hopes and/or suggest other remedies?
Frank,
I doubt your problem will go away after the rudder is finished, unless
you add a really HUGE glob of RTV that kind of ties both stiffeners together.
I had a similar problem on my elevator, but for me it occurred on a
rivet nearest the spar. I riveted an additional support to the
skin, spar, and stiffener which fixed the problem and prevented the
oil-canning. The only way you can tell something is abnormal when
looking at the elevator (of course, this happened on the TOP skin!)
is that there are two additional rivets in the skin.
I'll bet if you were to rivet an additional section of stiffener
back-to-back with the one that is causing you problems, it would
take care of the oil-canning. So, you would have two stiffness
riveted to each other back-to-back and also riveted to the skin.
You'd see two lines of rivets instead of one, on the outside of your
rudder.
I'm sure there are other viable solutions, like RTV, that might work.
I'm just letting you know what I did to solve my particular problem.
Keep in mind, that your situation is a little different. Specifically,
your problem is at the trailing edge, not at the spar, and so
the extra support of an additional stiffener will be less due to the
fact that it is tapered at that point. Play with it a little bit to
make sure it'll solve your specific problem before you start drilling...
Stephen Heinlein
sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com (RV-6/6A... riveting second fuel tank)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
> I can't find a local vendor for Vari Prime.
>
> Does anyone have a phone number or address of a vendor that carries this
> product?
>
> Thanks!
>
> John Hall
> jhth(at)msn.com
> RV-8 #80227
>
Any DuPont automotive paint store will carry it. Look in the YPs under
automotive paint. I don't think it's covered by any VOC laws, as I can
still buy it here in the SF bay area, where the CA-EPA has deemed VOCs to
be just slightly less acceptable that U238.
Chris
cruble(at)cisco.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael A. Pilla" <pilla(at)exit109.com> |
At 01:27 PM 12/11/96 UT, you wrote:
>I can't find a local vendor for Vari Prime.
>
>Does anyone have a phone number or address of a vendor that carries this
>product?
John, I would contact local auto repair shops and ask for their auto
paint supply source. Many auto repair (collision repair) use DuPont
products.
We have three auto *paint* shops in my suburban area, but I don't
believe that they take phone/mail orders.
Good luck.
Mike
Michael Pilla
pilla(at)exit109.com
v: (908) 566-7604
f: (908) 566-7936
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BDStobbe <70743.2727(at)CompuServe.COM> |
I am almost ready to remove my fuselage from the jig (marching band plays here).
However, before doing so I need to decide whether to rivet the fwd bottom skin
now, or leave it clecoed at this time. Does anyone have any comments regarding
this one way or the other? Does it really make any difference? It seems like
it would be easier to rivet it now rather than wait...
Also, what about the hinge segments which attach the cowl? Have most of you
installed these with the fuselage in the jig, or is it better to wait until you
are actually fitting the cowl?
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6 N508RV
threatening to order the finishing kit...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
JHTH wrote:
>
> I can't find a local vendor for Vari Prime.
>
> Does anyone have a phone number or address of a vendor that carries this
> product?
>
> Thanks!
>
> John Hall
> jhth(at)msn.com
> RV-8 #80227
Aircraft Spruce & Specialty in CA carries it. May I suggest as an
alternative SW marine primer. Same stuff(Zinc Chromate) and $25-30 a
gallon. Available at Sherwin Williams commercial paint centers. I have
used it on my 6A and works great.
--
Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
Rick Osgood
9200 Flying Cloud Dr.
Eden Prairie, MN 55347
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Canning survey results (finally!)... |
<v02130514aed3b2f18ca1@[147.17.239.61]>
| From: | Brian Yablon <brian(at)lanart.com> |
In message <v02130514aed3b2f18ca1@[147.17.239.61]>, Gil Alexander writes:
>Brian,
> Why would "prevailing wisdom" think that dimpling distortion is
>more for a pre-punched skin than for the 'old' skins. As long as there is
>no distortion caused by the punching (and my casual observation of new tail
>kits shows nice, flat skins), the dimpling stretch effect should be the
>same. How hard I hit my Avery Dimpling tool and how big a hammer I use
>would have much more effect.
In the old days, the way you assembled rudders from unpunched skins
was 1) layout the stiffeners on the skin; 2) drill, dimple and rivet
down the stiffeners; 3) put the stiffened skin in the jig, position
the spar to the skin, and drill the skin to the spar; 4) dimple the
skin and spar, and rivet the two together. Because drilling the skin
to the spar came after the installation of the stiffeners, you
effectively take up any slack that may have been introduced by
dimpling the stiffeners.
In the prepunched kits, the skin and spar are prealigned and drilled
at the factory. So any skin stretching that occurs when installing
the stiffeners has no place to go. In theory, anyway...
> How about "hitting too hard with spring-back dies" as being part
of
>the problem? I would guess that most of the flying RVs built their tail
>sections with the 'old-fashioned' flat dies.
There's no doubt that hitting the dies too hard when dimpling will
cause excess stretching around the dies. Pounding on the dies will
mash the skin between them. This material has to go somewhere, so it
flows out from between the dies, adding slack to the skin. (This
"mashing" is the principle behind the English Wheel that is used to
form complex curves in aluminum, by stretching it out).
I was aware of this when I did my dimpling, and I was careful to tap
the dies just enough to produce the required dimple. I used Avery's
springback dies. In spite of this, I still got some oil canning.
-Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com
Framingham, MA
RV6A #24751
Trim tab #2...
________________________________________________________________________________
Do not know your location; but, I found Veri-Prime at all of the
auto finish suppliers in our little town of Venice, Fl...John Lucas
At 01:27 PM 12/11/96 UT, you wrote:
>I can't find a local vendor for Vari Prime.
>
>Does anyone have a phone number or address of a vendor that carries this
>product?
>
>Thanks!
>
>John Hall
>jhth(at)msn.com
>RV-8 #80227
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles H Fink <CHFINK(at)envc.sandia.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Question on AIM |
>In the 1997 AIM 5-4-20 VISUAL APPROACH they refer to
>"14 CFR 91.155". Anybody know what that's all about?
>Why not just "FAR 91.155". The answer to this question
>is directly related to RV-4's as it will make me a
>better RV-4 pilot. :-) Any experts out there? John A.?
>
>Dan Boudro
>RV-4 N9167Z
>Albuquerque, NM
>dboudro(at)nmia.com
FWIW the FARs can be found at
http://www.faa.gov/avr/afshome.htm and the complete set of
federal regulations can be found at
http://law.house.gov/cfr.html
Charles Fink, RV-6 N548CF flying
chfink(at)envc.sandia.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lackerma(at)bigsean.rad.rpslmc.edu (lauren ackerman) |
| Subject: | dented rudder trailing edge |
Well, it finally happened. My rudder fell down and dented the middle
portion of the trailing edge...about 1 inch in diameter. Should I
fix it or redo the whole rudder? And if I fix it how?
laurens ackerman
lackerma(at)rad.rpslmc.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fwd bot skin |
>I am almost ready to remove my fuselage from the jig (marching band plays
here).
>However, before doing so I need to decide whether to rivet the fwd bottom skin
>now, or leave it clecoed at this time. Does anyone have any comments regarding
>this one way or the other? Does it really make any difference? It seems like
>it would be easier to rivet it now rather than wait...
>
>Also, what about the hinge segments which attach the cowl? Have most of you
>installed these with the fuselage in the jig, or is it better to wait until you
>are actually fitting the cowl?
>
>Bruce Stobbe
>RV-6 N508RV
>threatening to order the finishing kit...
>
Bruce,
I rivetted my forward bottom skin while still inverted in the jig. There
were no problems.
Put the hinge segments on the fuselage prior to installing the engine mount.
Do not wait until fitting the cowl as the engine must already be on. I
tried to install my hinge segments on the firewall with the engine mount on,
minus the engine. The mount had to be removed to buck the rivets on the
bottom hinges as well as the lower rivets on the sides. This was another
case of three steps forward and two steps back.
On another note, our N-numbers are almost identical. How did you come up
with N508RV? With mine, the 6RV should be obvious and the 50 was the number
on my fraternity jersey (Delta Chi) in college, yielding N506RV.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV
scottg(at)villagenet.com
(trying to finish by Spring and missing those five years of flying, studying
and drinking)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
Variprime is a Dupont product.
Any of your auto paint stores should have it if they carry Dupont paints.
Here in Austin, I buy it at Ricks Auto Parts in Round Rock, for example.
It is a two part primer so you need to buy both the base and the
activator.
> Do not know your location; but, I found Veri-Prime at all of the
> auto finish suppliers in our little town of Venice, Fl...John Lucas
>
> At 01:27 PM 12/11/96 UT, you wrote:
> >I can't find a local vendor for Vari Prime.
> >
> >Does anyone have a phone number or address of a vendor that carries this
> >product?
> >
> >Thanks!
> >
> >John Hall
> >jhth(at)msn.com
> >RV-8 #80227
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
| Subject: | Re: Spray Gun for Priming |
Ive been "on the fence" about hvlp for some time now. I have used a
touch-up gun for spraying primer to this point. I prime my parts in small
batches and so use small quantities at a time. However now that I am into
building wings the scale of the priming job is going up.
I borrowed a friends cheapie hvlp gun (Harbor Freight) and the results were
awful. Paint came out in small drops and the surface looked like it had been
stuccoed rather than painted. Also the gun would not work properly unless
the paint cup was over half full. I asked at 2 of the local paint supply
shops for advice and got the same response from both. "You need to buy our
$350 wonder gun if you want good results."
I dont mind spending the money to buy a good quality hvlp if I can feel
confident before making the investment that I will get good results. This
seems to be somewhat in doubt based on what I see in the archives.
Can some of you give me some current feedback about experiences with these
hvlp systems? Turbine versus non-turbine? Gravity feed guns? Ease of use for
someone whose only experience is priming parts?
Also is there a good source for these systems, mail order or otherwise,
which has reasonable pricing and carries multiple brands? In dealing with my
local vendors, I get the feeling I'm going to get suckered into whatever
they happen to have on the shelf at the time.
Feel free to respond off-list; no need to further clog the archives(took
well over an hour for me to read thru all that stuff and Im still confused).
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: fwd bot skin |
<< I am almost ready to remove my fuselage from the jig (marching band plays
here).
However, before doing so I need to decide whether to rivet the fwd bottom
skin
now, or leave it clecoed at this time. Does anyone have any comments
regarding
this one way or the other? Does it really make any difference? It seems
like
it would be easier to rivet it now rather than wait...
Also, what about the hinge segments which attach the cowl? Have most of you
installed these with the fuselage in the jig, or is it better to wait until
you
are actually fitting the cowl? >>
I would attach that skin while the fuse is in the jig. Why? I don't know
why but that was the way I did it and it was easy. I would attach that skin
in such a way as to avoid the "smoking rivet" problem (for those of you that
don't know what that is, please lets not bring it up again as it is well
documented in the archives) that some RV-6's have.
Additionally, you will find it easier to attach the hinge segments now. Once
you attach the engine mount attchment will be nearly impossible.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC, NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: fwd bot skin |
The reason some people have chosen to leave off their forward bottom
skin (RV-6 anyhow, I don't know about RV-3 or 4) is that it makes it
easier to work at the inside of the firewall and under the panel when
you're installing engine and instruments. I have only talked to one
person who did this, Frank Justice, and he said the fuselage remained
rigid, and there was no problem hanging the engine, and the skin was
not difficult to rivet on after he had his engine on and most of the
instruments and systems installed. He also told me it allowed him
easy access to the inside of the cockpit while fitting the canopy.
I didn't think about doing this (leaving it off) till after it was too
late. Just wanted to provide my understanding of why people choose to
leave it off till later.
BTW, when you do rivet it on, you might save yourself some hassle if
you remember to rivet the floor stiffeners to the firewall angles
BEFORE riveting the skin to the fuse and stiffners. After the skin is
on it is more difficult to get a bucking bar/gun in there close to the
firewall to do the stiffener/firewall part. But of course if you are
going to leave the skin off till later, be sure to leave the
stiffeners off too.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
| Subject: | Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
Has anybody out there with a quickbuild kit taken the time and effort to
put in a heated pitot tube? I've got the Gretz pitot tube mount, but
I'm having second thoughts about putting it on, since the quickbuild
already has a mount for the "old bent tube" approach. Here are my
thoughts:
For:
Heated pitot tube would give me a warm fuzzy feeling on x-country
trips
or during the winter, or at high altitudes.
It looks better (more "finished") than the old bent tube
Against:
I'd have to remove and plug the existing fitting.
I'd have to figure out how to mount the new mount with the
area already skinned
The "bent tube", as it is currently installed, puts the tie-down ring
on the
outside of the pitot tube. The location of the heated pitot tube
places the
tie-down ring on the inside of the pitot tube, which may interfere
with
tie-down since the rope might pull against the tube.
It's about $200 more money to go with the Gretz mount / heated pitot
tube
Anybody have any thoughts on this decision?
Thanks, Mitch
--------------------- cut here
--------------------------------------------------------------
Mitch Faatz mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com San Jose, CA
RV-6AQME N727MF (reserved)
Finished with empennage, working on rear fuselage top skins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kiwi(at)jetstream.net (Kiwi) |
| Subject: | Re: Jon Johanson |
You can get hold of him through the SAAA ( Sport Aircraft Association of
Australia). There is an E-Mail address there that will get you to someone
that can help you.
==============================================================================
>I am trying to contact Jon Johanson, the gentleman who flew his RV4
>around the world (twice). If anyone has any information such as address,
>phone number, or e-mail address, please forward it to me.
>
>Thank you.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Anthony Wiebe
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GHLX34A(at)prodigy.com (MR GEORGE T KILISHEK) |
| Subject: | Question re: Pro Seal |
How hard does this stuff get? How long does it take? I mixed some
last night @ 13:1 by volume and applied per builder's manual
directions. Tonight it's still very tacky. Should I worry?
George Kilishek
RV-8 SN 80006
Winging it
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
> For:
> Heated pitot tube would give me a warm fuzzy feeling on x-country
> trips
> or during the winter, or at high altitudes.
> It looks better (more "finished") than the old bent tube
Mitch:
You never mention possible ice in IFR.
Unless you anticipate installing full IFR equipment (including
an IFR rated pilot) I would leave the thing off.
I don't necessarily agree with people who fly only VFR but put IFR
stuff in "just in case" they end up in IFR or marginal VFR -- IMHO if
you don't have the equipment you are less likely to push things beyond
your and the plane's limits. IMHO the money could be better spent on
gas.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin lane <kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fwd bot skin |
Does it really make any difference? It seems like
> it would be easier to rivet it now rather than wait...
> let me simply say that I must have climbed into the fuselage several
hundred times by now and when fitting the canopy it is essential to have
that "trap door" (IMHO). Be patient:-) kevinlane @sprintmail.com
rv6A-canopy fitting/cowl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: dented rudder trailing edge |
Laurens, not to long ago I rebuilt an Rv4 rudder for a freind. The skin is so
thin depending on the type damage you have, I found it was easy to remove the
rudder skin from the skeleton. Buy a new rudder skin and enough stiffener
material to do the whole rudder . Install the new stiffeners on the skin, and
pick up the old holes from the skeleton to the new skin and reasemble. The
result is no one will know you goofed but you. Later,
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
Mitch,
What
do you need a heated pitot tube for? Hopefully you wont be flying in icing
conditions. If your pitot tube ices up your wings may be next!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Question re: Pro Seal (fwd) |
I think it is very slow to cure.
I was told to let it cure at least a week or two before you
put any slosh over it (I just put slosh on top of the proseal
on the seams only, not the entire tank).
You know you mixed it OK if it is a 'dark battleship grey' color
when you mix it.
Herman
> From owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com Wed Dec 11 20:49:06 1996
> Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
> Message-Id: <199612120124.UAA04670(at)mime2.prodigy.com>
> X-Mailer: Prodigy Internet GW(v0.9beta) - ae01dm04sc03
> From: prodigy.com!GHLX34A(at)matronics.com (MR GEORGE T KILISHEK)
> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 20:24:59, -0500
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Question re: Pro Seal
> Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Precedence: bulk
> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> How hard does this stuff get? How long does it take? I mixed some
> last night @ 13:1 by volume and applied per builder's manual
> directions. Tonight it's still very tacky. Should I worry?
>
> George Kilishek
> RV-8 SN 80006
> Winging it
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Meske <rmeske(at)freenet.columbus.oh.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
Yes! I also have the same pitit tube. I have also had the same problems.
I ended up making a reinforcing plate just under the skin for the mount.
I also attached a l bracket to it. It worked just great. I then
discovered the same thing as yourself. The tie down is in the wrong
place. I ended up installing another tie down in the next bib section
outboard. What a mess. It looks good though, and it works.. . . Good luck
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Building the air box; the new dummy??? |
In the instructions for Van's air box assembly he states that in order to get
an airtight fit between the filter and the airbox itself, that the perimeter
of the top plate should be positioned so that it is 1/16" below the level of
the filter. You then drill and rivet it to the fiberglass shell.
So, I'm thinking, I've got to push the top plate on with enough pressure to
compress the rubber flanges on the filter by a 1/16". How to do this? I start
looking around for all the bucking bars and other heavy things I can find.
Get enough weight on the top plate to compress the filter the required
amount. Then when everything is under pressure, I'll drill the holes through
the thin fiberglass airbox sides. Geez, this doesn't seem right. Should I be
making a reinforcement ring around the air box so when the rivets are in and
under that much pressure, I don't distort the holes and loosen the fit?
But even then something is not right. Why does Vans cut out an oval hole in
the top plate for a round filter? (Didn't I deal with this once in the 2nd
grade?) Ahhh hahhh!; now I get it. We're supposed to squeeze the round
filter into an oval shape to match the hole. Yes! It works that way; right?
Then the top plate just slides over and you can position it as you want,
right? Then tightening the screws of the carb mount plate will serve the
purpose of compressing the filter ribs, right? This is right, isn't it?
Yep, .....step aside Ken Scott, the new dummy of RV-building is taking your
place.
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Canning survey results (finally!)... |
>
>
>In the old days, the way you assembled rudders from unpunched skins
>was 1) layout the stiffeners on the skin; 2) drill, dimple and rivet
>down the stiffeners; 3) put the stiffened skin in the jig, position
>the spar to the skin, and drill the skin to the spar; 4) dimple the
>skin and spar, and rivet the two together. Because drilling the skin
I just got done doing it the "old way" on my quickbuild, sure wish I had
that new pre-punched stuff . Seriously, I think there is truth to what
Brian says, my skins turned out taut. Now if I could only remove that t.e.
dent...
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q project:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker
(last update 12/4/96)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Question re: Pro Seal |
> How hard does this stuff get? How long does it take? I mixed some
> last night @ 13:1 by volume and applied per builder's manual
> directions. Tonight it's still very tacky. Should I worry?
Is that the correct measurement? I think it's 10:1 by weight, but I don't
remember what the volume was. If so, I wouldn't worry about it. It dries
slower when it's cold, and I let mine dry for 3 days or so, and it was still
slightly soft then. It takes a while for full cure.
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: fwd bot skin |
> rivet the fwd bottom skin now, or leave it clecoed at this time. Does
anyone have any comments regarding this one way or the other? Does it really
make any difference? It seems like it would be easier to rivet it now
rather than wait...
I'd rivet it now. However do NOT rivet the top fwd skin until you absolutely
must.
> Also, what about the hinge segments which attach the cowl? Have most of
you
> installed these with the fuselage in the jig, or is it better to wait
until you
> are actually fitting the cowl?
Wait until you fit the cowl. The cowl thicknesses are not uniform, and you
will probably need to use different thickness spacers under the hinge
segments than are called for in the plans. As for interference with the
engine mount, I didn't have any trouble except for the 3 innermost rivets on
each of the bottom hinges and I just used pop rivets there. (although I do
not have the aversion to pops that some do, especially on the bottom of the
airplane)
> threatening to order the finishing kit...
Don't threaten, do it. I guarantee the price will go up on Jan. 1st.
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
I've already installed a heated pitot tube on my RV-6A quckbuild.
> Against:
> I'd have to remove and plug the existing fitting.
I simply epoxied a plug made of some scrap AL over the hole. No problem. 1
hour or so.
> I'd have to figure out how to mount the new mount with the
> area already skinned
It's no problem. I omitted Warren's rivets thru the spar flange, and
otherwise followed the directions. The Avery pop rivet dimple die comes in
REAL handy.
> The "bent tube", as it is currently installed, puts the tie-down ring
> on the outside of the pitot tube. The location of the heated pitot tube
> places the tie-down ring on the inside of the pitot tube, which may
interfere
> with tie-down since the rope might pull against the tube.
Good point. I decided to live with it, and park the plane so the ring on the
ground will be close to the tie down loop.
> It's about $200 more money to go with the Gretz mount / heated pitot
> tube
In my opinion a heated pitot tube is a requirement for IFR in near or below
freezing temperatures. Yeah, I know it's not a legal requirement, but I
won't fly in those conditions without one (as pilot or as passenger). Going
one step further, I elected to buy the AN5814 heated pitot/static tube.
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ #60023
Finishing rudder, skinning the wings, looking at those wing tips (fiberglass
work, oh joy -- NOT).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fwd bot skin |
> However, before doing so I need to decide whether to rivet the fwd bottom
skin
>now, or leave it clecoed at this time. Does anyone have any comments regarding
>this one way or the other? Does it really make any difference? It seems like
>it would be easier to rivet it now rather than wait...
> Also, what about the hinge segments which attach the cowl? Have most of you
>installed these with the fuselage in the jig, or is it better to wait until you
>are actually fitting the cowl?
>Bruce Stobbe RV-6 N508RV threatening to order the finishing kit...
Bruce, I riveted the bottom skin on while in the jig. After visiting with
several RVers over the years at OSH and S&F, I decided to forgo the hinges
on the rear of the top cowl and the 2 short hinges on the bottom cowl to
fuselage. I also didn't use the stronger extruded hinge supplied for use
behind the spinner as these have a tendency to break hinge loops, as well.
I did use the verticle hinges on the bottom cowl and the horizontal hinges
that attach the top to bottom cowl.
I used seven #6 flush screws with waashers on the top cowl and five on
each side of the bottom cowl. I used 3, #8 screws per side behind the
spinner. The screws/nutplate combination has worked well and I intend to do
the same thing on the next RV.
One advantage this system has is that there are no hinges to wear out or
break and therefore, no need at some point in time to drill off worn hinges
(with damage to the paint job) for replacement.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: dented rudder trailing edge |
>
>Well, it finally happened. My rudder fell down and dented the middle
>portion of the trailing edge...about 1 inch in diameter. Should I
>fix it or redo the whole rudder? And if I fix it how?
>
>laurens ackerman
>lackerma(at)rad.rpslmc.edu
Laurens,
Ouch! A similar thing happened to me. I made a rack and mounted it high
on the wall to store flaps and ailerons. I was working on the right aileron
and put it away, heavy end away from the wall (wrong way). I slammed the
door on the way out of the shop and heard a bad noise. Yep, the aileron
landed on the right rear corner and creased and cracked the trailing edge
about 5 inches from the corner.
I took some of the base board molding left over from the gear legs and cut
a 5" long piece. I rounded the thin end to the radius of the trailing edge
bend. I placed the wood in the trailing edge bend (after drilling off the
end rib) and tapped on the edge of the wood with a round bar to try to force
the metal back into it's former shape. I cleaned up the crack (stop drill,
polish). I got a piece of .016", bent it to the same angle as the aileron,
smeared some glue (T-88, I imagine proseal would work well, also) on the
piece, placed the piece over ther repair area and then taped and weighted
the patch, put the end rib back in place and placed a weight on a level that
spanned from rib to rib. It worked out well and after paint you can't see
the repair.
You can always try a repair. If it doesn't turn out well, then you can
order the new parts.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spray Gun for Priming |
> I borrowed a friends cheapie hvlp gun (Harbor Freight) and the results were
>awful. Paint came out in small drops and the surface looked like it had been
>stuccoed rather than painted. Also the gun would not work properly unless
>the paint cup was over half full. I asked at 2 of the local paint supply
>shops for advice and got the same response from both. "You need to buy our
>$350 wonder gun if you want good results."
> Can some of you give me some current feedback about experiences with these
>hvlp systems? Turbine versus non-turbine? Gravity feed guns? Ease of use for
>someone whose only experience is priming parts?
> Also is there a good source for these systems, mail order or otherwise,
>which has reasonable pricing and carries multiple brands? In dealing with my
>local vendors, I get the feeling I'm going to get suckered into whatever
>they happen to have on the shelf at the time.
> Mike Wills RV-4 (wings) willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
Mike, I chose to buy a Croix turbine as I had a small, 2 hp compressor that
I didn't feel would keep up with too much painting. Also, I had a lot of
other stuff I wanted to paint: corrals and fence, patio furniture, my house
(primed and painted) and a car. Because the turbine runs on 110 volts, it
is very portable. I rented a compressor for remote, ranch work. I primed
and painted my house. I even used it to paint an old steam locomotive
(those things are a lot bigger than they look!)
You could prime (the inside) your whole airplane with a $ 30.00 touch-up
gun. You just have to refill a lot.
I've gotten a lot of use out of the Croix. I've rented it to two guys to
paint their airplanes, an RV-6 and a Varieze. Another friend used it to
paint a pickup. The Croix does seem to "orange peel" just a little. Both
plane painters rubbed their finishes out. They had more of a problem with
dust than orange peel. My plane was painted by a pro with a Croix and it
orange peeled, as well. It was 95 + degrees when we painted the six and we
were using the warmest weather reducer that PPG made but still had a little
orange peel. It rubbed out OK.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Question re: Pro Seal |
MR GEORGE T KILISHEK wrote:
>
> How hard does this stuff get? How long does it take? I mixed some
> last night @ 13:1 by volume and applied per builder's manual
> directions. Tonight it's still very tacky. Should I worry?
>
> George Kilishek
> RV-8 SN 80006
> Winging it
It shouldn't ever get really hard. Proseal should remain pliable to some
degree. I've been working with the stuff for years and I've seen it take
weeks to cure fully in some cases. Things that might be causing it to
cure slowly:
- Some formulations are designed to cure more slowly.
- The stuff may be old (don't worry, it'll still eventually cure)
- Your project is probably in a cold garage, etc. (temp really affects
cure time.
- You needed more of the black stuff (again, don't worry -it'll still
eventually cure, assuming you got at least enough catylist in there to
produce a 'primer' sort of gray color or darker -preferably a really
DARK gray)
I have found that I end up using more catylist than is
specified/supplied usually. At the helicopter shop we always run out of
the black stuff first if we're using the stuff out of the can (as
opposed to pre-measured dispense caulk-type tubes)
Proseal is really good stuff. It's also pretty hard to screw up. Just
get things fairly clean first and you'll do fine.
YOU won't be clean when you finish however...
You'll need to come up with some clever excuses to explain that stubborn
black goop stuck around your fingernails for a week.
Scott
N4ZW
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Question re: Pro Seal |
George, Pro-seal takes awhile even when you get it mixed right. Be patient
and it will eventually dry, that is, if you did get enough hardner in it. My
tanks smelled like proseal for several weeks. After 300 hours of flying, I
never had a leak. Just be sure to go over all of the rivet shop heads and
put a bead along the stiffeners.
Dave DeWinter, RV-6, N166DD.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Lamb Tire Conversion |
Hi All,
I'm in the process of removing the Flight Custom II retread tires, Van's
wheel pants and aluminum gear leg fairings from my RV-3.
I'm installing Lamb tires, Lightning Engineering Wheel pants, and tracy
Saylor's gear leg fairings.
The original purpose is to have less drag :-)
However, I have data that may be of general interest.
The 5x5 Custom Flight II tire (recap) and tube weighs 7 1/2 pounds.
The Lamb tire and tube weighs 3 1/2 pounds.
Just this change alone will save 8 pounds on the empty weight of my RV-3.
I haven't fitted the wheel pants and gear leg fairings yet, so I don't have a
total weight for the new parts. I believe the new wheel pants will end up
lighter, and the new gear leg fairings may be slightly heavier.
Van's wheel pants (with 1/4 lb balance weight) and gear leg fairings weight
between 4 and 4 1/4 pounds.
I'll try to provide a total weight savings when I have finished this
installation.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stephen Jackson Soule <ssoule(at)vbimail.champlain.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Question on AIM |
Dan Boudro wrote:
>
> In the 1997 AIM 5-4-20 VISUAL APPROACH they refer to
> "14 CFR 91.155". Anybody know what that's all about? ...
Hi Dan and all,
The CFR is the Code of Federal Regulations. It is where you find all
federal regulations. The citation is just another place to find the
FAR.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stephen Jackson Soule <ssoule(at)vbimail.champlain.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Question re: Pro Seal |
MR GEORGE T KILISHEK wrote:
>
> How hard does this stuff get? How long does it take? I mixed some
> last night @ 13:1 by volume and applied per builder's manual
> directions. Tonight it's still very tacky. Should I worry?
>
> George Kilishek
> RV-8 SN 80006
> Winging it
I find that 7:1 by volume works better. I mixed a small batch at a
higher ratio yesterday to seal a fitting and it is not setting up. I
will have to take my fitting apart and do it again.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Question re: Pro Seal |
George,
if you mixed the pro-seal right it may take a few days to get to the point
that it is not sticky, and a week or more until it is fully set. Don'y worry
yet...George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | O-320 Oil Pressure Gauge Hookup |
| From: | ron.taborek(at)flight642.com (RON TABOREK) |
The designated point for picking up oil pressure on my O320-E2D is so
close to the upper right dynafocal mount that getting a fitting in and
out is difficult.
Is there an alternative location for sensing oil pressure?
In the Aug 94 RVator page 10, the author tried sensing pressure at "the
oil pressure sender off the port near the centreline of the engine" but
didn't carry on with this because the pressure sensed was over 100 psi.
I believe the author was referring to the ports for oil to and from the
oil cooler. Can anyone advise if these are suitable for sensing oil
pressure? My gauge reads to 150 psi.
These ports would still be required to feed the oil cooler so a tee of
some sort would have to be fitted.
Ron Taborek Installing RV-4 engine Toronto ron.taborek(at)flight642.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question re: Pro Seal |
>
> I find that 7:1 by volume works better. I mixed a small batch at a
> higher ratio yesterday to seal a fitting and it is not setting up. I
> will have to take my fitting apart and do it again.
>
> Steve
>
Let it sit for a week or two and it will be fine. The stuff cures
slooooooooowly in the cold winter months.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Beaton <beatonk(at)usaa.com> |
| Subject: | Subscription update |
I would like to update my subscription to include an additional email address of
beatonk(at)texas.net.
Thank you,
Kevin Beaton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | Re: O-320 Oil Pressure Gauge Hookup |
Ron
Welcome to the list. Here is part of the post that
I sent when I figured out how to solve this one.
David Fried
dfried(at)dehavilland.ca
August 95
Neither of us remembered that the oil pressure port is located rather
close to the upper right engine mount. I went back and read Tony B's
article warning of this problem and how it is almost impossible to get
the fitting into place. Almost is the key here.
A 90 degree brass fitting with is available from ACS. Once this is in
the pressure port a straight restrictor fitting may be threaded into
it. This fitting is rather bulky, filing down the corners will ease
it past the mount. In Ken's case the threads of the port were cut so
that the fitting engaged early and was clear of the mount at the first
half turn.
I wasn't so lucky. After more sweating and cursing I did solve the
problem. Once I figured it out it took just seconds. Loosen the
mount bolt, slip a lever between the case and the face of the mount, a
little push and it is clear... easy.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RV-List: O-320 Oil Pressure Gauge Hookup
Date: 12/12/96 10:17 AM
The designated point for picking up oil pressure on my O320-E2D is so
close to the upper right dynafocal mount that getting a fitting in and
out is difficult.
Is there an alternative location for sensing oil pressure?
In the Aug 94 RVator page 10, the author tried sensing pressure at "the
oil pressure sender off the port near the centreline of the engine" but
didn't carry on with this because the pressure sensed was over 100 psi.
I believe the author was referring to the ports for oil to and from the
oil cooler. Can anyone advise if these are suitable for sensing oil
pressure? My gauge reads to 150 psi.
These ports would still be required to feed the oil cooler so a tee of
some sort would have to be fitted.
Ron Taborek Installing RV-4 engine Toronto ron.taborek(at)flight642.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
| Subject: | Spray Gun for Priming |
Hi Mike, I had exactly the same experience with my Harbor Freight (Central
Pneumatic) HVLP gun, only NOTHING came out. The folks at Central Pneumatic
did not seem to be in the tech support business and convinced me to go
trouble someone else with my tool purchases. Of course I know two local guys
that rave about the same gun. Go figure.
I took on the job of learning to paint by painting my wifes car, so I went
out and paid $250.00 for a Sharpe gravity fed HVLP. It's pattern is a lovely
thing to behold. I think any of the better guns will do you fine as long as
your compressor will handle the demand. The Binks that was mentioned earlier
I hear is a dynamite gun as well. Probablly the major manufacturers you
will run into is Binks, Sharpe, and DeVilvis. They're all good equipment and
similarly priced.
Botton line is, the gun is only as good as your technique. Just like holding
that bucking bar, it takes practice. You can work a lot of miracles with
1500 grit sandpaper and a buffer. Oh yeah, these guns prime like a house O
fire.
Let me know if I can help.
Eric Henson
Dana Point, CA
ehenson(at)cldwell.attmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Reply Seperator<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Ive been "on the fence" about hvlp for some time now. I have used a
touch-up gun for spraying primer to this point. I prime my parts in small
batches and so use small quantities at a time. However now that I am into
building wings the scale of the priming job is going up.
I borrowed a friends cheapie hvlp gun (Harbor Freight) and the results were
awful. Paint came out in small drops and the surface looked like it had been
stuccoed rather than painted. Also the gun would not work properly unless
the paint cup was over half full. I asked at 2 of the local paint supply
shops for advice and got the same response from both. "You need to buy our
$350 wonder gun if you want good results."
I dont mind spending the money to buy a good quality hvlp if I can feel
confident before making the investment that I will get good results. This
seems to be somewhat in doubt based on what I see in the archives.
Can some of you give me some current feedback about experiences with these
hvlp systems? Turbine versus non-turbine? Gravity feed guns? Ease of use for
someone whose only experience is priming parts?
Also is there a good source for these systems, mail order or otherwise,
which has reasonable pricing and carries multiple brands? In dealing with my
local vendors, I get the feeling I'm going to get suckered into whatever
they happen to have on the shelf at the time.
Feel free to respond off-list; no need to further clog the archives(took
well over an hour for me to read thru all that stuff and Im still confused).
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillAkin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Question re: Pro Seal |
George:
Sounds like bad mixture or material. Cold ambient Tempature influences cure
rate significantly but I assume you are working in reasonable conditions. It
will begin to set up in about 1 1/2 to 2 hours in very warm conditions and up
to 4 hours at cooler temps. The stuff does supposedly have a shelf life of
about six months but I have never had problems with cure up to a couple of
years. Check your ratios. Weight is different from volume.
Good Luck!
BA RV6A N85TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Building the air box; the new dummy??? |
<< In the instructions for Van's air box assembly he states that in order to
get
an airtight fit between the filter and the airbox itself, that the perimeter
of the top plate should be positioned so that it is 1/16" below the level of
the filter. You then drill and rivet it to the fiberglass shell.
>>
Stuff Cut
When it came time to install the airbox (and baffles) I threw away Van's
instructions (now you know why) and walked across the hangar to a completed
RV, made some notes, and just built what looked right.
Turns out that what looks right is right.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC, NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
| Subject: | Re: Spray Gun (clarification) |
Thanks for all the responses so far. Wanted to clarify my request. My
interest in hvlp is for environmental and cost reasons. I do intend to paint
the airplane myself when the time comes so whatever I choose I will have to
buy a good quality gun. I am currently using PPG DP-40 and will probably
finish with acrylic enamel or Imron, so minimizing overspray for cost and
environmental reasons is desirable. The family and neighbors would certainly
appreciate a smaller noxious cloud coming from my garage.
I have not had any problems at all spraying with my touch up gun or with a
standard hplv gun; only with the harbor freight hvlp I tried to use. Are the
mixing/reducing requirements different for hvlp, or did I have a technique
error, or did I just try a sub-standard hvlp?
My compressor is a stationary 6hp with 60 gal tank, single stage; I dont
recall the scfm rating.
So the qustions are,among the hvlp types:
1) Turbine or non-turbine?
2) Gravity feed (cup on top) or ??
3) Sources ?
4) Reference materials/ how-to guides?
Off-list responses are fine, and thanks again.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
located in environmentally concerned San Diego, Ca.
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: O-320 Oil Pressure Gauge Hookup |
<< The designated point for picking up oil pressure on my O320-E2D is so
close to the upper right dynafocal mount that getting a fitting in and
out is difficult. >>
You are so right. I had to remove the rubber engine mount to get to that
thing. I used a 45 degree fitting in this location which gives me good
clearance. I tried to find another good location at the time but didn't find
one. Does anybody have one?
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC, NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Building the air box; |
Hi all,
Someone wrote:
>>Turns out that what looks right is right.
The more skill and experience an engineer has, the more true this is. For
others, this can be a formula for disaster.
The results of "eyeballin' it" are quite visible in experimental aviation. Like
the guy who built his fuselage frame of steel gas pipe rather than 4130. The
pipe does look beefier and is a lot cheaper. If he had studied up or asked this
group, he would have saved having to do it again.
We don't need no stinkin' degree to do engineering. We just need to study and
learn the appropriate technologies.
And the, of course, this *IS* Experimental Aviation!
Hal Kempthorne halk(at)netcom.com Santa Clara, CA. (SJC)
Debonair N6134V RV-6AQ on order!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
Thinking of aerobatics and gyros.......
What are some good methods to reduce dramatically the effects of
aerobatics on the wear of gyros?
It seems that one could have a shut off in the vacumn line to
disable any vacumn gyros before doing any wiferdils, and that would at
least remove gyroscopic loads on the gyro.
Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q
rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us
Seattle area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mmartin(at)perigee.net (Mitchell Martin) |
| Subject: | RV-6 Performance Figures |
To all:
In anticipation of having my RV-6 flying in a few more months, I found
myself performing some "what-if" senarios with the Cirrus software and
Duats. Not having any time in type, I was just guessing at the
performance perimeters that I needed to flight plan in Duats. Instead
of using factory figures, I had rather have real world average
numbers. Would someone give me close approximations for the following.
I'm using a 150 hp Lycoming and Hartsell CS prop.
Climb speed, climb rate, and fuel burn
Cruise speed and fuel burn @ 75% power
Decent speed, decent rate, and fuel burn
Thanks and Merry Christmas to RVer's everywhere,
Regards, Mitch
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Martin Electronics Co. --- Communications Electronics and Computers
=46CC Licenced and NABER Certified Technician ---- Amatuer Radio KA4OBE
mailto:mmartin@perigee.net -------- http://www.perigee.net/~mmartin
=46inger mmartin(at)mail.perigee.net for PGP Public Key
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <tomdalrymple(at)VNET.IBM.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: O-320 Oil Pressure Gauge Hookup |
>From the desk of:__Tom Dalrymple
*** Resending note of 12/12/96 15:57
IBM Internal Use Only
SUBJECT: Re: RV-List: O-320 Oil Pressure Gauge Hookup
From: aol.com!RV6junkie(at)matronics.com
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 12:14:40 -0500
Subject: Re: RV-List: O-320 Oil Pressure Gauge Hookup
<< The designated point for picking up oil pressure on my O320-E2D is so
close to the upper right dynafocal mount that getting a fitting in and
out is difficult. >>
You are so right. I had to remove the rubber engine mount to get to that
thing. I used a 45 degree fitting in this location which gives me good
clearance. I tried to find another good location at the time but didn't find
one. Does anybody have one?
I put a 45 degree fitting like Gary, but I then ran a dash 3 aeroquip
line to the firewall. On the firewall I put a 30PSI warning light
sending unit and a Tee for the line to the gauge.
Tom Dalrymple
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Mortimore <terry.mortimore(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Question re: Pro Seal |
MR GEORGE T KILISHEK wrote:
>
> How hard does this stuff get? How long does it take? I mixed some
> last night @ 13:1 by volume and applied per builder's manual
> directions. Tonight it's still very tacky. Should I worry?
>
> George Kilishek
> RV-8 SN 80006
> Winging it
Hi George: I just finished my tanks about 2 weeks ago. Mine remained
tacky for 2 to 3 days.
--
Terry Mortimore 2.7Litre Subaru RV-6A
38 Cartier St. terry.mortimore(at)sympatico.ca
Sault Ste Marie, Ontario,
Canada P6B-3K2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fwd bot skin |
>I am almost ready to remove my fuselage from the jig (marching band plays
here).
>However, before doing so I need to decide whether to rivet the fwd bottom skin
>now, or leave it clecoed at this time.
When I made my RV-4 fusleage I riveted the bottom skin on but left the
forward side skins clecoed for easy access to install rudder pedals, brake
cylinders, etc. While it hasn't flown yet it is straight as far as a string
and eye can tell... :)
Richard E. Bibb
RV-4 N144KT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: O-320 Oil Pressure Gauge Hookup |
>The designated point for picking up oil pressure on my O320-E2D is so
>close to the upper right dynafocal mount that getting a fitting in and
>out is difficult.
>Is there an alternative location for sensing oil pressure?
I forgot to put this fitting on before mounting my engine as well. I was
able to get a fitting at an autoparts store that was brass and worked OK.
It was a fitting that had the required male threads to fit the hole in the
engine and then terminated in a block of brass with a female threaded (1/8"
pipe thread I recall) hole at a right angle to the main axis of the fitting.
Since this fitting was not much larger in size than the hole it was screwing
into it cleared the Dynafocal mount as it was screwed in. I then installed
a straight 1/8" pipe AN nipple into this brass fitting to effectively make a
two piece elbow fitting. Sure beat removing the engine.
Richard E. Bibb
RV-4 N144KT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
I retransmitted my original posting regarding Binks HVLP paint guns to
Mike in case he somehow missed it and added the following:
GenevaYou are right to go with an HVLP gun.
They are a lot more efficient and there is very little overspray to
clean up. Coverage and efficiency are importanmt when you are using a
product like Deft (over $100/ gal.) We had a turbine gun at Ottumwa
last summer and were using it with Deft. It worked okay I guess, but I
did not like it. I would definately opt for a conversion gun. I have
not had a chance to try out my new Binks yet, but it came out on top
when I researched the same subject a few months ago.
I bought mine from A & I Supply (800-260-2647). They have a nice
selection of quality tools and several different paint guns to choose
from and were very knowledgeable ,and helpful. I was trying to buy a
more expensive gun and was convinced by their rep to buy the gravity
feed gun that I ended up with.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Hoatson <lhoatson(at)e2.empirenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spray Gun (clarification) |
Hi Mike,
Still love the Devillus OMX, for the sames reasons you listed as
priorities...
So, theres my $0.04 (inflation, you know:))
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
I think that unless you can 'cage' the gyros, they may get more
damage when they are not spinning. They just flop around and can
get hammered against the stops.
Sigma Teck (?sp) now offers a cageable AH, don't know about the DG.
I asked the instrument shop here in Austin about my electric TC gyro
and they said it was best to leave it running during acro.
The other option is to have a removable sub-pannel with the gyros
in it and pull them out. Some of the acrobatic planes have this.
They want gyros for XC and then can pull them out for the serious
unlimitted acro.
Herman
dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
> Thinking of aerobatics and gyros.......
> What are some good methods to reduce dramatically the effects of
> aerobatics on the wear of gyros?
> It seems that one could have a shut off in the vacumn line to
> disable any vacumn gyros before doing any wiferdils, and that would at
> least remove gyroscopic loads on the gyro.
>
> Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q
> rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us
> Seattle area
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Fritz <75303.1623(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Stoddard-Hamilton BB |
Can anyone direct me to an equivilent BB for Stoddard-Hamilton Glassair II
builders? No, that wasn't an invitation to tell me where to go....just
directions to get there.
Thanks
Bob Fritz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
> Thinking of aerobatics and gyros.......
> What are some good methods to reduce dramatically the effects of
>aerobatics on the wear of gyros?
Back in the old Army you could cage them. Modern technology has fixed that.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chinkley(at)ix.netcom.com (Curtis R. Hinkley) |
Mark,
Is that an RV with a six? Would like to know more if it is.
Curtis Hinkley
chinkley(at)ix.netcom.com
hinklyc(at)fca.gov
You wrote:
>
>As for strength, the demonstrated gross wt on my bird is 1950 lb.
(I've had it that heavy, and it flew) with an EW of 1190 lb, and it has
those holes on BOTH sides. It also has a VNE of 275. And a six cylinder
engine. Engineer types tell me that the strength is more towards the
outer sfcs/flanges of the spar, and the web is there only to keep these
sfcs aligned.
>Check six!
>Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Morristec(at)aol.com |
Ron,
Do not disconnect the vacuum from the Gyros. If you have gryos that are
designed for aerobatics they will be OK when running. When the Gyro is
stopped the loads (static and vibratory) on the ball bearings through the
balls are point loads in ONE place. This results in highly localized wear
causing notches in the bearing races. When they are rotating the wear and
loads are distributed as the balls constantly move. When the gyro is inop.
it is also free to move in the gimballs erratically, unlike when the gyro is
turning and stabilized.
Note that I'm not a gyro expert, but a friend in the business has explained
that flying with the gyro not rotating is one of the highest causes of damage
to the bearings. Often people continue with the vacuum pump inop. for
extended periods and totally destroy the gyro bearings.
Dan Morris
Morristec(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Building the air box; the new dummy??? |
>In the instructions for Van's air box assembly he states that in order to get
>an airtight fit between the filter and the airbox itself, that the perimeter
>of the top plate should be positioned so that it is 1/16" below the level of
>the filter. You then drill and rivet it to the fiberglass shell.
>
>So, I'm thinking, I've got to push the top plate on with enough pressure to
>compress the rubber flanges on the filter by a 1/16". How to do this? I start
>looking around for all the bucking bars and other heavy things I can find.
>Get enough weight on the top plate to compress the filter the required
>amount. Then when everything is under pressure, I'll drill the holes through
>the thin fiberglass airbox sides. Geez, this doesn't seem right. Should I be
>making a reinforcement ring around the air box so when the rivets are in and
>under that much pressure, I don't distort the holes and loosen the fit?
>
>But even then something is not right. Why does Vans cut out an oval hole in
>the top plate for a round filter? (Didn't I deal with this once in the 2nd
>grade?) Ahhh hahhh!; now I get it. We're supposed to squeeze the round
>filter into an oval shape to match the hole. Yes! It works that way; right?
>Then the top plate just slides over and you can position it as you want,
>right? Then tightening the screws of the carb mount plate will serve the
>purpose of compressing the filter ribs, right? This is right, isn't it?
>
>Yep, .....step aside Ken Scott, the new dummy of RV-building is taking your
>place.
>
>Andy
Andy,
Sorry, don't have the instructions anymore but assume that they are
similar to the ones I used.
The metal piece with the flange on it rivets to the fiberglass. This has
nothing to do with how tight the filter is compressed. The
fiberglass/flanged assembly attaches to the .063" (?) plate that screws to
the carb. The filter will contact this plate and is sandwhiched between the
top carb mounted plate and another, oval plate that plugs the bottom of the
filter. When you're done, you'll be able to remove 5 (or 6?) AN3 bolts and
drop the airbox and the top plate, filter and bottom plate will remain
attached to the carb.
By the way, I didn't used the tabs that they send in the kit. I used
four, drilled head screws and saftied in pairs.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
Shutting off the air to they gyros when doing aerobatics is worse than
leaving them run. When the are not running, they can really flop around and
bang up against the spring wires that act as stops. If you want to do some
serious aerobatics, take your gyros out of the plane or they will end up as
expensive junk. The only axis that is not disturbed by aerobatics is in the
roll mode. You can roll all day long and not hurt the gyros, but if you
exceed the pitch limit, they will hit the stops and that is what causes the
dammage. I got this from the folks at IFR, the company that makes the gyros
that I have. At Oshkosh, they had a see through case on an attitude gyro so
that you could see what happens inside. It was interesting to see what
happens during a loop.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael A. Pilla" <pilla(at)exit109.com> |
> I think that unless you can 'cage' the gyros, they may get more
> damage when they are not spinning. They just flop around and can
> get hammered against the stops.
> Sigma Teck (?sp) now offers a cageable AH, don't know about the DG.
I called SigmaTek and asked about the cageable gyro. The chap who
handled my query said, emphatically, that the caging capability was
to be used *only* to "right" the gyro after some acro, not to keep it
locked in place *while* doing acro. He went on to explain that leaving
a gyro spinning, but caged, while doing acro could do more damage than
allowing the gyro to "tumble".
I cannot remember his exact quote, but it was something like "after
acro work, you can cage the gyro when you have the bird straight and
level - it will save time instead of the gyro taking minutes to re-erect
itself" or some such words. I.e., the cage feature is a quick fix.
> I asked the instrument shop here in Austin about my electric TC gyro
> and they said it was best to leave it running during acro.
Confirms what I have heard form other instrument shops.
> The other option is to have a removable sub-pannel with the gyros
> in it and pull them out. Some of the acrobatic planes have this.
> They want gyros for XC and then can pull them out for the serious
> unlimitted acro.
I have noticed that these chaps do that very thing. They replace the
removable gyro panel with their Aresti card holder and chart.
Mike
Michael Pilla
pilla(at)exit109.com
v: (908) 566-7604
f: (908) 566-7936
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: O-360 Oil Pressure Gauge Hookup |
I just looked at my new 0-360, and I hope it is different than the -320.
Mine has the one hole near the right mount that looks impossible to put a
fitting in after the mount is in place. But right next to it, facing
directly rearwards is another hole, drilled into the same passage (I hope)
that will take a straight fitting with plenty of clearance.
Since my mount is on, and I don't intend to take it off, and the fitting is
in the "easy" hole, is this correct on the 0-360?
Bruce Patton
Doing all that firewall stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Instrument Panel Overlays with Lighting |
Guys,
A local builder is looking for a source for a custom made instrument
panel overlay that incorporates built-in instrument lighting. This would
aleviate the need to purchase all of his instruments with built-in lighting.
Does anyone know of a suitable source??
... thanks ... Gil (I'm going day VFR) Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com -- work
gila(at)flash.net -- home acct.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Hartmann <hartmann(at)echo.sound.net> |
| Subject: | RV6A Fuselage Dimensions |
I find that the only way I will ever beat the miserable Kansas weather and
finish my RV is to bring the project in from the freezing garage to the nice
warm basement. I have a clean shot at the basement stairs from the garage,
but I am not convinced that the fuselage will fit through the doorway. It
looks like the longest vertical dimension is about 36 inches at the bulkhead
just aft of the baggage compartment, but I'd hate to be wrong by much as I
only have a 36 inch door to work with. Can anyone tell me definatively the
minimum sized doorway an RV6/6A fuselage will fit through once it is off the
jig?
Thanks,
- Mike
hartmann(at)sound.net
http://www.sound.net/~hartmann
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: dented rudder trailing edge |
Bob,
Laurens was in our builders class too.
Mal
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aileron Control Rod Boots |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Listers,
To those whom have requested via a SASE a copy of my aileron control
rod boots, they are in the mail. Hope they help out.
Somebody, I don't know who, posted a note about scanning this drawing
into a page. If you send me a SASE I'll send you a full size copy to
scan. It is on legal size paper, but could be reduced as I have
demensioned it.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
Lis,
I've missed placed your email address please call or write I have your
tool for you.
................George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bennett(at)healey.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Fuselage Dimensions |
Can anyone tell me definatively the
> minimum sized doorway an RV6/6A fuselage will fit through once it is off the
> jig?
>
Depends entirely on how fast you approach the doorway Mike.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 working inside fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: dented rudder trailing edge |
>Well, it finally happened. My rudder fell down and dented the middle
>portion of the trailing edge...about 1 inch in diameter. Should I
>fix it or redo the whole rudder? And if I fix it how?
>
>laurens ackerman
laurens; Is the leading edge riveted closed yet? If not, I did a
welding/brazing rod fit inside, a tapered length of wood, some taps with a
hammer, and the trailing edge looks the same as new.
If front is closed with rivets, I don't know.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: O-360 Oil Pressure Gauge Hookup |
<< I just looked at my new 0-360, and I hope it is different than the -320.
Mine has the one hole near the right mount that looks impossible to put a
fitting in after the mount is in place. But right next to it, facing
directly rearwards is another hole, drilled into the same passage (I hope)
that will take a straight fitting with plenty of clearance.
Since my mount is on, and I don't intend to take it off, and the fitting is
in the "easy" hole, is this correct on the 0-360? >>
Bruce-
Yes, that rear facing 1/8" NPT port is on a common gallery with the port 90
degrees to it. I've seen older engines that didn't have this additional
port, but the new ones do. Who says that aircraft engines haven't improved
in 40 years?
Make sure you use a steel (or S/S or brass) restrictor fitting (approx .040"
dia hole), mount the sender higher up on the firewall (preferrably with the
sensing end facing downward so suspended particulate doesn't settle out and
ultimately hard pack in the sensor's small orifice) and use high quality -3
size hose (not tubing) to connect it all up. Your installation will then
outlast you.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
| Subject: | Re: Spray Gun (clarification) |
Larry,
My clarification was intended to cut down on the number of responses that I
was getting begining with the line, "I dont know anything about hvlp but...".
Thanks for your response.
The trend I am seeing in responses is the same as what I saw in the
archives. There seems to be a fair number of people who have tried hvlp and
were not entirely satisfied. I dont know if this is due to technique or what.
I think the bottom line for me is going to be to try to find a dealer who
will let me try out a gun and perhaps provide a little training, prior to
committing to a purchase.
Mike
>Hi Mike,
>Still love the Devillus OMX, for the sames reasons you listed as
>priorities...
>So, theres my $0.04 (inflation, you know:))
>Larry
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Building the air box; the new dummy??? |
A
> an airtight fit between the filter and the airbox itself, that the perimeter
> of the top plate should be positioned so that it is 1/16" below the level of
> the filter. You then drill and rivet it to the fiberglass shell..........
.................^What????^...................
>When it came time to install the airbox (and baffles) I threw away Van's
>instructions (now you know why) and walked across the hangar to a completed
>RV, made some notes, and just built what looked right.
>Turns out that what looks right is right.
I guess I just put it together the way it looked like it went together and
it worked fine. I don't remember that particular instruction and there was
no forcing of anything to fit or stay put. Go with what looks right.
Michael
RV-4 232SQ
mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
You never mention possible ice in IFR.
>Unless you anticipate installing full IFR equipment (including
>an IFR rated pilot) I would leave the thing off.
>I don't necessarily agree with people who fly only VFR but put IFR
>stuff in "just in case" they end up in IFR or marginal VFR -- IMHO if
>you don't have the equipment you are less likely to push things beyond
>your and the plane's limits. IMHO the money could be better spent on
>gas.
Mitch: I agree. The "old bent tube" works and isn't going to break
(electrical wires and heating element), add unnecessary weight, complexity
and hassle (installation). If you plan on flying into known icing
conditions, which the heated probe is best used for, you are in violation of
FARs, the aircrafts ability and maybe your own. Keep it simple: leave it
off. Avery makes a very nice stainless steel copy of the old bent tube that
polishes up really nicely.
Micheal
RV-4 232SQ
mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: dented rudder trailing edge |
Bob, Mal
We really don't care!! :~(
>Bob,
>Laurens was in our builders class too.
>Mal
Hal Kempthorne halk(at)netcom.com Santa Clara, CA. (SJC)
Debonair N6134V RV-6AQ on order!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Greening <jsg(at)sierra.net> |
| Subject: | Engine Inspection |
Following the removal of the soft plug in the crank in prepartation for
installing my cs prop., I felt what appeared to be grit in the bore.
Assuming it to be dried grease / whatever, I cleaned the area more
thoroughly. I found LARGE machine cuttings under the nice, clean looking
oil (the 6 puts the engine at a pretty good angle for the oil to "pool"
in the crank. At first glance, it would be easy to be lulled into
thinking it was a sanitary situation.
Lycoming suggested they apparently did not sufficiently flush the
engine. Their recomendation; run 10 hrs. & look for debris.
I would suggest to anyone installing a new engine that a THOROUGH
inspection, by magnet and eye, before installing the prop! I doubt the
prop would have survived this degree of contamination for any length of
time.
Jeff
jsg(at)sunset.net
fitting cowl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Panel Overlays with Lighting |
>Guys,
> A local builder is looking for a source for a custom made instrument
>panel overlay that incorporates built-in instrument lighting. This would
>aleviate the need to purchase all of his instruments with built-in lighting.
>
> Does anyone know of a suitable source??
McCoy, the outfit that builds the digital front ends for older King radios
used to make a nice one, very reasonablt priced.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin lane <kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com> |
> I bought mine from A & I Supply (800-260-2647). They have a nice
> selection of quality tools and several different paint guns to choose
> I bought a Binks gravity feed HVLP locally (portland) and paid $250 + $30
for a 6' whip hose, fittings, and a water filter. Just thought you might
want to hear some prices. kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Gentlemen,
While these little crafts are certainly NOT to be flown into icing
conditions, sometimes it does happen, even with the best of plans. In
those cases, I certainly would like to have the option of knowing my
airspeed as I decend down to warmer air.
There's an old saying, "an inch of prevention is worth a pound of ..."
whatever. If you plan on flying IFR, put on a heated
pitot tube. Violations sometimes aren't intentional, and they don't have
to kill you if you're prepared.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
dimensional.com!mikel(at)matronics.com writes:
>
>You never mention possible ice in IFR.
>>Unless you anticipate installing full IFR equipment (including
>>an IFR rated pilot) I would leave the thing off.
>>I don't necessarily agree with people who fly only VFR but put IFR
>>stuff in "just in case" they end up in IFR or marginal VFR -- IMHO if
>>you don't have the equipment you are less likely to push things beyond
>>your and the plane's limits. IMHO the money could be better spent on
>>gas.
>
>Mitch: I agree. The "old bent tube" works and isn't going to break
>(electrical wires and heating element), add unnecessary weight,
complexity
>and hassle (installation). If you plan on flying into known icing
>conditions, which the heated probe is best used for, you are in
violation of
>FARs, the aircrafts ability and maybe your own. Keep it simple: leave it
>off. Avery makes a very nice stainless steel copy of the old bent tube
that
>polishes up really nicely.
>
>Micheal
>RV-4 232SQ
>mikel(at)dimensional.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
<< Is that an RV with a six? Would like to know more if it is.
>>
Sure is. It's called a "Harmon Rocket". Info available from John Harmon @
805-836-1028.
Don't take a ride in one, or you'll be hooked.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: O-360 Oil Pressure Gauge Hookup |
Yes, the two holes connect inside, I assume that Lycoming put the extra hole
in to correct their error in putting a hole in such a poor location in the
first place.
John - almost up to the painting.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Panel Overlays with Lighting |
<< Guys,
A local builder is looking for a source for a custom made instrument
panel overlay that incorporates built-in instrument lighting. This would
aleviate the need to purchase all of his instruments with built-in lighting.
Does anyone know of a suitable source?? >>
If this fella is looking for a plexi overlay to shine some light on his
instruments, I can make up one for him, given tight enough dimensions to work
from. E-mail me off the list.
Mark
mlfred(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
| Subject: | New pictures on my web site |
For a nice Friday afternoon show and tell,
http://www.aftershock.org/mitch/rv.htm
It's always changing, but I've added a bunch of new pictures of both
my project and Ed Cole's project. There are also links to the
RV-6/6A seat cushion plans now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Kitfox List
From: Ralph_Dempsey
Subject: GPS 2000
>>Bob:
>>Got one of those GPS 2000 units the other day after we talked the other
>>week. And sure enough, Wal-Mart was selling them for $150.
>>But be careful. My friend bought one before I did and when I got mine, I
>>played with it for awhile then called him to talk about the unit's
>>features. To make the long story short, there are 2 types of GPS 2000 out
>>there. The one my friend has has 1995 software and mine had 1996 software
>>in it. Both are being sold at Wal-Mart side by side and the only quick way
>>to know which one you have is to look at the copyright date on the user's
>>guide. There are more features in the 1996 unit for no additional cost
>>that makes it a more attractive deal.
I discovered that when I visited my local WalMart with a friend to
purchase his. We were sitting at my dining room table comparing
notes and his had some whippy screens that mine did not have.
None the less, EITHER unit is most usful for the task . . .
My GPS2000 has a part number 62010. Folks out shopping may wish to
watch for a different (later?) partnumber.
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========oOOo=(_)=oOOo==========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
>>My question has to do with strobe/position light systems
>>for my RV - 6 (under construction). I am planning to
>>use the wing tip lights that include position and strobe
>>lights and I also plan to use wing tip antennae. The
>>systems that I am considering are: the Wheelen system
>>that uses one power supply box and shielded cable to the
>>wing tip; and the Aeroflash system that uses individual
>>power supply boxes in each wing tip connected to the
>>strobe light with unshielded wire. The Aeroflash folks
>>claim 10 joule output and the Wheelen people claim 44
>>joules "combined total" for their comet flash unit.
>>The Wheelen system sells for more than $200 more than the
>>Aeroflash.
>>1. What is the significance of the difference in the
>>energy output? I am not sure that I am comparing "apples
>>to apples" when comparing 10 joules to 44 joules of "combined
>>total" energy.
The "magic" number for light output from modern "certified"
strobe installations is 10 joules (or 10 watt-seconds) of
energy per tube. Since the flash happens in milliseconds,
one may deduce that 10 joules divided by .003 seconds
yields about 3300 watts peak . . . THAT's why the things
are so bright. When you have one power supply driving
one tube (AeroFlash) all they have to sign up for is 10
joules period. When you run multiple tubes from a single
supply (Wheelen) the power is supposed to divide between
all the tubes plugged in which says that you might expect
to get as much as 22 joules per tube in a two-light system;
13 joules per tube in a three-light.
>>2. Will one system introduce more noise into the comm or nav
>>radios considering the wing tip antennae and long shielded
>>vs short unshielded high voltage wiring.
No hard and fast rules here. You could have a single tube,
10 joule supply that radiates and/or conducts much more
noise than a multiple light system. Since these systems
are STC'd if not TSO'd, -AND- since they have long histories
in a variety of airplanes, it's a pretty safe bet that
whatever noise either system generates, it can be dealt
with.
>>3. Should I consider other installation configurations, \
>>e.g. not using wing tip antennae?
Your wing tip antennas will be limited to VOR and perhaps
Glide Slope (with coupler). I seldom "listen" to VOR signals
except on rare occasions enroute . . . in which case I
would turn off the strobes if they were objectionable. Strobes
will not be a factor in glide slope systems so I think you're
on reasonable ground with either system.
>>4. How does the overall quality of the units compare?
Couldn't say . . . I think it's safe to say that most
failures are environmentally induced . . . moisture,
vibration, etc. A power supply mounted amidships feeding
remote heads is probably under less environmental stress
than wing tip mounted systems. However, since the tip
mounted systems are less expensive, cost of ownership
might be a wash or even favor the tip mounted system.
>>Any input that you can provide will be appreciated. Thanks.
My pleasure. Sorry to take so long in getting backt to this,
Raytheon had be out of town most of last week watching
some paint dry . . . did get to work on some articles for
future publication.
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========oOOo=(_)=oOOo==========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillAkin(at)aol.com |
Ron:
It will also ruin your vacumn pump. Had a friend this happened to.
Instrument mfg.'s have told us later model gyros are self caging and
aerobatics will not affect them. I know it's hard to believe and I suppose it
depends on the make and model in question but I know the answer is not just
to merely choke off the pump. If you do this you should devise an alternate
branch that will immulate suction through the the gyros so the pump doesn't
know the difference.
Good luck!
BA N85TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hobby Stevens <rayco(at)camalott.com> |
| Subject: | Visit to OMABP and flying the Chevy powered RV-6A |
Last Saturday I was in Las Vegas and flew for about 20 minutes with
Jess Meyers in the Chevy powered RV-6A. I spent about 30 minutes
looking at the installation before we buttoned up the cowling to go
flying. The installation was neat and professional looking. Afterwards
I talked with Tom, who built the engine, about what they had done to
modify this engine from a stock Chevy. The tach showed 85 hours.
My observations and comments are solely mine, and are based on my
own auto and flying experiences. I have flown a Cessna 210 for the last
15 years, and numerous other general aviation singles and twins for the
last 23 years. As a teenager, I rebuilt engines and worked on cars for
fun. The Chevy starts quickly and idles smoothly. Since they use
collector pipes running the three cylinders on each bank into one pipe
per bank, the exhaust sound is distinct. Not exactly a car sound, not a
Merlin sound, but definitely not a LyCont sound either. Sort of like
the small block Chevys of the late 60's or early 70's with headers.
Takeoff was quick, with the engine being very responsive to throttle. I
flew mid-morning, with temps in low 50's. Jess and I are both good
sized (I weigh 195 lbs.). Initial rate of climb was around 1,800 at
100mph, with 1,300fpm at 110ias. Coolant temp was 195f through out the
flight. After clearing the airport area, we did a prolonged max rate
climb, but the temps never wavered from 195f. Then I pulled the
throttle and dove at 3,000fpm. Again, the block coolant probe showed
195f while the radiator probe showed a decrease from 195f to about
150f. At all rpm levels, the engine/prop combination was smooth and
responsive. Landing was normal.
As others have reported, the basic Chevy engine has been modified
by the addition of a mild cam, better valve springs, an Edelbrock intake
manifold and a Holley 500cfm carb which has been modified for mixture
control. That's it. The motor mounts have been designed for 10G's by
an engineer. Also, the entire power train (Warp Drive prop, PSRU and
Chevy engine) WITH THE RV-6A AIRFRAME has supposedly been subjected as a
single unit to harmonic analysis, resulting in some small, but
beneficial changes.
My overall impression is that these guys, all good engineers and/or
nuclear consultants, originally set out to see if this engine/prop setup
would work in an acceptable manner IN THIS APPLICATION. They have used
good scientific method and apparently have solved the major problems
with this type of installation. So what is left to do? Well, it still
weighs 40 lbs. more than the Lyc engine. Also, the durability and
reliability questions still remain, but their ongoing extended testing
program should provide additional data.
I plan to closely monitor their progress. I'm hoping that the
installation goes a least 1,000 hours before any major servicing
(overhaul) is required, that the crank shaft and other major components
prove capable, and that they can sell a firewall forward package for
under $10,000. If they can do this, then I'll definitely look closely
at purchasing their package when it's time to buy a engine. Anyone with
additional questions can e-mail me directly.
Hobby Stevens
rayco(at)camalott.com
N41HS (reserved)
RV-6(Q?)
Comm/Instrument ASMEL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Spray Gun for Priming |
What exactly is it that a HVLP gun DOES that is so radically different from a
normal spray gun? I've heard all the claims, why does it work?
--
(Sorry Randall, no more room for the Yakko Warner quote)
Richard Chandler
RV-6: Garage bought, saving for tools and tail kit (Christmas?).
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Fuselage Dimensions |
>>snip...I am not convinced that the fuselage will fit through the doorway. It
>>looks like the longest vertical dimension is about 36 inches at the bulkhead
>>just aft of the baggage compartment, but I'd hate to be wrong by much as I
>>only have a 36 inch door to work with. Can anyone tell me definatively the
>>minimum sized doorway an RV6/6A fuselage will fit through once it is off the
>>jig?
>>Thanks,
>>- Mike
>>hartmann(at)sound.net
>>http://www.sound.net/~hartmann
I just measured the bulkhead in question at 35 5/16 inches (my fuselage is in
the jig and about ready to deburr and dimple). The top of the bulkhead is very
floppy, so you might be able to lay it back some for a little extra clearance.
In a real pinch, it might be possible to split the bulkhead horizontally just
above the longerons and splice it back together.
Good luck,
Bob Hall
Colorado Springs
rjhall(at)kktv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)Op.Net> |
After 20 hrs. of instruction in a Pitts, I took an acro course in a
Cessna 150 Aerobat from William Kershner ( You know, the guy who wrote
the book). I was surprised to
find that his aircraft had its original gyros. They had never needed
repair after a zillion spins, loops, rolls, snaps, immelmanns and
Willigmanns ( A Willigmann is a mis-executed immelmann whereby you wait
too long, roll too slowly, and go into an inverted spin. I was so
proficient at this that Kershner tried to put the manuver in to the
Aresti catalogue) Anyway, Bill stated that he never had problems with his
gyros after a lifetime of Acro, He is not the first person to tell me
this. After talking to several gyro repair shops, I got the feeling that
serious acro will damage gyros and basic acro is much less damaging.
The purpose of caging is to re-erect the gyro after it has tumbled. A
tumbled gyro can take several minutes to re-erect. I think caging was
more useful to a fighter pilot after a dogfight. He would need to resume
navigation quickly. All of the above is anecdotal, but the sources are
1st class.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: VA-153 Governor Cable Bracket |
Kids-
I have an unused VA-153 that is free to good home. You pay shipping from
Silicon Gulch if not local. First E-mail gets it. It has been sandblasted,
primed with Stits EP-420 Green Epoxy Strontium Chromate and topcoated with
white Dupont Nason Polyurethane. What a sweet deal for Xmas.
Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
> While these little crafts are certainly NOT to be flown into icing
>conditions, sometimes it does happen, even with the best of plans. In
>those cases, I certainly would like to have the option of knowing my
>airspeed as I decend down to warmer air.
> There's an old saying, "an inch of prevention is worth a pound of ..."
>whatever. If you plan on flying IFR, put on a heated
>pitot tube. Violations sometimes aren't intentional, and they don't have
>to kill you if you're prepared.
I certainly agree with the prevention part. Towards that end, I believe any
pilot (VFR or IFR) should memorize (or placard) which key combinations of
power and rate of descent produce what airspeed in a given aircraft.
Certainly makes all flying easier overall.
Additionally, I suspect nowadays most of us will have a GPS on board anyway
- viola, instant airspeed. Just my $0.02 worth.
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q Project:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker
(last updated 12/4/96)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bennett(at)healey.com.au |
| Subject: | Mech to elec trim conversion |
Early this year there was a thread on converting mechanical to
electric trim. I have done this by mounting the servo on the
longitudinal rib F629 just behind the elevator servo and running a
push-pull cable out the route of the mechanical trim cable. I've used
a Morse type 32B cable which from my RV6 drawings seems identical to
the mechanical trim cable from Van's. The length to specify is 89
inches, and you need a Morse clevis type 31800 6995 at the trim tab
end.
Morse Controls are all over Australia, so no doubt are all over the
USA as well.
Anybody wanting more detail is welcome to email me privately.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 working inside fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert R. Moore" <bobmoore(at)wwd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
r.acker wrote:
> Additionally, I suspect nowadays most of us will have a GPS on board anyway
> - viola, instant airspeed.
How about instant ground speed?
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Hoatson <lhoatson(at)e2.empirenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
Some points for consideration:
1) Might a known combination of RPM and Manifold pressure yield a
different level of performance in an ice-ladened configuration? I think
so.
2) It doesn't take much ice between the antenna and the satelitte to
render the GPS useless.
3) Some shops won't certify an aircraft for IFR without a heated pitot.
I vote for the heated tube.
--
Larry D. Hoatson lhoatson(at)empirenet.com Yucaipa, CA (L12)
Restoring 1950 Cessna 170A N9948A
Looking forward to RV6Q
>
> > While these little crafts are certainly NOT to be flown into icing
> >conditions, sometimes it does happen, even with the best of plans. In
> >those cases, I certainly would like to have the option of knowing my
> >airspeed as I decend down to warmer air.
> > There's an old saying, "an inch of prevention is worth a pound of ..."
> >whatever. If you plan on flying IFR, put on a heated
> >pitot tube. Violations sometimes aren't intentional, and they don't have
> >to kill you if you're prepared.
>
> I certainly agree with the prevention part. Towards that end, I believe any
> pilot (VFR or IFR) should memorize (or placard) which key combinations of
> power and rate of descent produce what airspeed in a given aircraft.
> Certainly makes all flying easier overall.
>
> Additionally, I suspect nowadays most of us will have a GPS on board anyway
> - viola, instant airspeed. Just my $0.02 worth.
>
> Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q Project:
> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker
> (last updated 12/4/96)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Drew" <noeldrew(at)iafrica.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question re: Pro Seal |
Having once been involved in the manufacture of activators for
polysulphides (Proseal), the following comments might prove useful.
The black paste is usually manganese dioxide (previously lead
dioxide) dispersed in a plasticiser. It is there to provide oxygen which
causes the polysulphide, (smelly white stuff), to polymerise and form
the very stable and useful rubber seal we are seeking. One of the
challenges to the manufacturer of the activator is to provide a consistant
and predictable rate of early gel of the polysulphide, say between 30
minutes and 8 hours, a tack free set in the first 24 hours and then, over
the next 7 days, to cure most of the remaining chemical bonds.
The expiry date on the proseal and activator is protecting the
manufacturer from at least the effects of time and temperature. The
manganese dioxide preparation has a necessary degree of instability
and will lose oxygen over time and at a rate increased by elevated
temperatures. The polymer is also happy to accept a contribution of
oxygen from exposure to air and it will consequently stiffen in the can
over time especially after the seal is broken and the nitrogen purge is lost.
Adding more activator than specified will degrade the intended final
product slightly by providing in effect additional filler and
plasticiser to the end product. When fresh, additional activator in the
mix will result in a fast set and when old, the correct quantity will give a
slow and possibly incomplete set although the latter may be difficult for
the observer to detect.
Specified performance usually requires a high degree of stiffness within
a defined time and an absence of tack within 24 hours. I think our
grade of Proseal is expected to become unworkable after 2 or 3 hours
at normal room temperature.
I used my expired but workable proseal on non critical issues such as
assisting the rivets on the hinges on engine canopy and expected and
got, early stiffening but a long final cure and a late loss of tack.
The gentle use of a heat gun helped to soften it during application
but time then ran out very fast. After a few weeks however I could not
fault the product for the job it was doing. You can conclude that It does
not fall over and die shortly after the expiry date but you can expect the
older mixes to produce a polysulphide which continuously degrades
below the very stringent Mil spec in gel time, final strength and fuel
resistance.
I would not panic if the mix is firm but still tacky after 24 hours and it
may even take a permanent dent from a finger nail. The same condition
persisting after 48 hours would start me worrying. If it is still
tacky after a week you definitely have a problem.
Since our main use of Proseal is as a sealant and not as a
structural glue we really have to concern ourselves with its resistance to
fuel and a 90% cure will drop it back from excellent to very good. The
application of some gentle heat should accelerate the cure by extracting
more available oxygen from the manganese dioxide but time and
continued exposure to air will also assist the process.
In conclusion, I would strongly advise you to use the recommended
ratio by weight of activator and then be patient about the final cure.
I hope this information helps your understanding.
Noel Drew
noeldrew(at)iafrica.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stephen Jackson Soule <ssoule(at)vbimail.champlain.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Visit to OMABP and flying the Chevy powered RV-6A |
Hobby Stevens wrote:
>
> Last Saturday I was in Las Vegas and flew for about 20 minutes with
> Jess Meyers in the Chevy powered RV-6A ...
Thank you for the update. I enjoy reading information about this engine
system. I hope to see the information continue to be posted.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: VA-153 Governor Cable Bracket |
Gary: If it will work with my 180 HP Lycoming and constant speed
prop, I will take it...John Lucas - 667 Crossfield Circle - Venice, Fl. 34293.
Now, all I have to figure out is how to bench press the RV-6A Crate
that is to arrive in a couple of days...Thank you
>Kids-
>
>I have an unused VA-153 that is free to good home. You pay shipping from
>Silicon Gulch if not local. First E-mail gets it. It has been sandblasted,
>primed with Stits EP-420 Green Epoxy Strontium Chromate and topcoated with
>white Dupont Nason Polyurethane. What a sweet deal for Xmas.
>
>Gary VanRemortel
>vanremog(at)aol.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: dented rudder trailing edge |
Well at least you spelled everything correctly!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
>From: Ralph_Dempsey
>Subject: GPS 2000
>
> >>Bob:
>
> >>Got one of those GPS 2000 units the other day after we talked the other
> >>week. And sure enough, Wal-Mart was selling them for $150.
I must have missed the original posting. Tell me about the GPS 2000.
You are obviously not talking about the Trimble 2000.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bennett(at)healey.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: Question re: Pro Seal |
> From: "David Drew" <iafrica.com!noeldrew(at)matronics.com>
> Having once been involved in the manufacture of activators for
> polysulphides (Proseal), the following comments might prove useful.
>
Thanks for a very informative post David.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 working inside fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin/Theresa Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
I have flown a lot of IFR professionally over the last 15 years, and I
offer the following comments from personal experience:
1. The icing forecasts are not very accurate. I often find ice where it
wasn't forecast and vice versa. The bottom line is that you run a real
risk of getting into icing anytime you fly in clouds above the freezing
level. You need to have a plan to get out of the ice, and don't waste much
time putting it into action.
2. Different parts of the aircraft are more or less prone to pick up ice
depending on the shape of the leading edge of the part. You can find
conditions where the wing (which is what you are probably watching) is not
picking up ice, but other parts of the airframe are.
3. All of my IFR flying is with heated pitot tubes, and they are always
turned on. They are checked regularly to make sure they actually work.
Still, I had one pitot-static heat failure that caused the static source to
freeze up. And we were not picking up any visible ice on that flight.
4. The bottom line is that you are taking an unnecessary risk if you fly
in cloud above the freezing level without a heated pitot tube, an alternate
static source and a plan on how you will get out of icing if you run into
it.
Too many accidents are preceded by a lot of wishful thinking. Be careful
up there.
Kevin Horton
khorton(at)cyberus.ca
hopeful RV-8 builder in tool gathering mode
--------------
>Some points for consideration:
>
>1) Might a known combination of RPM and Manifold pressure yield a
>different level of performance in an ice-ladened configuration? I think
>so.
>
>2) It doesn't take much ice between the antenna and the satelitte to
>render the GPS useless.
>
>3) Some shops won't certify an aircraft for IFR without a heated pitot.
>
>I vote for the heated tube.
>
>--
>Larry D. Hoatson lhoatson(at)empirenet.com Yucaipa, CA (L12)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MiDiBu <midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com> |
>After 20 hrs. of instruction in a Pitts, I took an acro course in a Cessna
150 Aerobat from William Kershner ( You know, the guy who wrote the book).
Is he still at Sewanee, Tennessee? I was a 17 year old PP in 1968 who would
land at Sewanee in a J-3 and spend hours just talking flying with him. Mr.
Kershner is one of the finest men I have met in my life. And at 17 years
old, I was even brash enough to critique his books. The first time I met
him, he and I were the only ones at the airport. I asked him to sit in the
front seat while I propped the plane (being 17, I could have also just done
the propping from behind the prop maneuver that I had perfected), but he
insisted that he would prop it for me. I would like to take some more
instruction from him if he still does that.
I was surprised to find that his aircraft had its original gyros. They had
never needed repair after a zillion spins, loops, rolls, snaps, immelmanns
and Willigmanns ( A Willigmann is a mis-executed immelmann whereby you wait
too long, roll too slowly, and go into an inverted spin. I was so proficient
at this that Kershner tried to put the manuver in to the Aresti catalogue)
Anyway, Bill stated that he never had problems with his gyros after a
lifetime of Acro, He is not the first person to tell me this. After talking
to several gyro repair shops, I got the feeling that serious acro will
damage gyros and basic acro is much less damaging.
>
I think that you are correct. They are pretty low mass devices. But, what
will really mess them up, is all of the crap that gets stirred up when you
go even a little bit negative. Dust, screws, little pieces of metal, log
books (I think I told Mr. Kershner about that one), and all will foul the
vacuum filter and even get into the instruments.
>The purpose of caging is to re-erect the gyro after it has tumbled. A
tumbled gyro can take several minutes to re-erect. I think caging was more
useful to a fighter pilot after a dogfight. He would need to resume
navigation quickly. All of the above is anecdotal, but the sources are 1st
class.
>
>
Thanks (Mr. Willigmanns?). I plan to roll my gyro equiped RV when I get it
flying. I'm still working on the tail (empannage?).
Mike Weller RV 80187 (under construction)
midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com (preferred) or mike.weller(at)msfc.nasa.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Rozendaal <DougR(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
If anyone has any plans to fly IFR in the fall winter or spring, without a heated
pitot
please let me know so I can get some life insurance on you.
People seem to like lists on this subject so here is a list of some thoughts about
icing
in general from an "old frieght hound"
Things you can count on.
1.If you fly IFR in the winter you will get ice. Forecast be damned.
2.Little airplanes will fly with obscene amounts of ice on them so be cool.
3.Obscene amounts of ice can accumulate in seconds, yes seconds (2.5" clear ice
in 45
seconds,coming down like a load of bricks. my own personal record.)
4.The clear ice that looks like it is not a problem will kill you.
5.The ugly ragged rime ice that looks like it will kill you has much less effect
on your
airplane. (4" on a C-402 flew fine.)
6.Every time you get in the ice, it will be different.
Things to do.
1.Take imeadiate action. turn around or climb. You can always decend. Ice is usually
limited to a narrow altitude range and if you change altitude you can often get
out of
it.
2.Do not allow ATC to fly your airplane. Don't ask, tell. If you are flying along
FDH(fat,dumb,&happy)in the clear up high don't let approach clear you down in to
the ice
40 miles out.
3.Use all the power you have when climbing through ice. it is cold and your engine
will
not overheat in the climb. The best tool in managing ice is climb performace.
The RV's
shine here.
4.Climb at a flatter attitude, higher airspeed, than normal. High angles of attack
will
cause ice to form on the belly of the airplane and slow everything down. If the
nose
starts to come up high, put on a little flap to get the nose back down.
5.Remain calm. If you can't see out the window, don't worry, Linbergh landed the
Spirt
w/o a windshield.
6.Remain calm. Don't get slow on approach, don't use much flap to assure you don't
blank
out the tail. Fly to the end of the runway and then slow down at a low altitude
and let
the airplane land when it is ready.
7.Remain calm. Understand that you are back in the test pilot phase now and you
are not
flying your docile old friend.
8.Avoid freezing rain at all cost. It will kill you. Deice boots, hot props, hot
W/S,
don't matter and are no help. Do not ever decend from warm rain in to cold clouds.
BTDT
(been there done that, see above)
I have 3000+ hours in light airplanes in the upper midwest and you can very effectively
use a non-deiced airplane for IFR transportation in the winter. There is no reason
to be
afraid of it, just understand it and manage it. Find an old salt and go stick your
nose
in the cloud some day with a high ceiling or better yet warm air underneath and
give it
a try. Hopefully these "old freight hound" pointers will help. The RV's are great
cross country IFR airplanes, don't let them sit in the hanger all winter. Don't
be
afriaid, just be smart. That means, don't even consider going in a cloud, in even
cool
weather, without a heated pitot tube. The first time it fails, you will understand
why. BTDT
IMHO
DougR(at)netins.net
"Old Frieght Hound" looking for a -4
No spelling warranty expressed or implied.;)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Bronson <70773.2700(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Quickbuild heated pitot |
Subject: Pitot Heat
Apologies up front. Third attempt to send the following post. If any of you received
my previous attempts, I'm sorry about the duplication. New guy on the list.
Greetings all. This is my first post since joining the list. My apologies if
what leaves my computer arrives at yours in alphabet-soup format.
Regarding installation of heated pitot: I recommend installation if you
contemplate ANY IFR flying. There are a few things that should be kept in mind
concerning flight in icing conditions:
1) When you pick up a load of ice, you become a test pilot if you're flying an
aircraft that is not certified for icing conditions. Ice adds weight and drag,
but more importantly it changes the shape of the airfoil. In this situation you
are flying a wing that has stall characteristics that will differ from those it
normally displays, and you may find that this "new" wing stalls WITHOUT
aerodynamic warning. This is most likely not what most of us have in mind when
flying an "Experimental" aircraft.
2) Different parts of the aircraft have different "collection efficiencies."
Depending on water droplet size, your wing may or may not collect ice. However,
small sharp objects like pitot tubes, antennas, etc. have a very high collection
efficiency regardless of droplet size. Bottom line: if there's ANY ice out
there, your pitot tube will be the first to know.
3) I'm 100% in agreement with the idea of knowing pitch attitudes and power
settings for your aircraft in various flight regimes. However, these rules of
thumb will be altered with your "new" airfoil. Additionally, losing your
airspeed indicator "for real" is just a matter of someone covering the
instrument and telling you it doesn't work. You're more likely to get erroneous
readings first, and you'll have to figure it out on your own. In a "total
performance" aircraft like the RV, my guess is that you could quickly and easily
exceed redline while trying to correct an incorrect low airspeed reading.
One last caveat: It won't do any good if it isn't working, or if you forget to
turn it on. An airline jet was lost several years ago due to loss of control
resulting from unheated pitot tubes.
The price for a heated pitot tube will be a very small part of the cost of your
project. IMHO, if you only need it once, your way ahead of the game.
On or off- list comments welcome. Happy Holidays to all.
Tim Bronson, Pittsburgh PA. RV-8-WB(Wanna Build. No project yet but
threatening)
70773.2700(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Hoatson <lhoatson(at)e2.empirenet.com> |
| Subject: | Preview Plans Set |
Hello,
Can anyone tell me about the "Preview Plans Set" offered by Van's for
the RV-6/6A?
Are these just for preview, do you get full plans when you order your
kit?
I suppose the real question is, for a wannabe builder, will they just
whet my appetite and feed my fantasies more:)
Thanks, and Happy Holidays
--
Larry D. Hoatson lhoatson(at)empirenet.com Yucaipa, CA (L12)
Restoring 1950 Cessna 170A N9948A
Looking forward to RV6Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Oil Pressure Sensor Fitting |
I ran my engine for the first time yesterday. I had a very bad oil leak and
shut the engine down. Upon inspection, I found that the elbow fitting that
the oil pressure sensor attaches to had broken. I replaced the fitting and
as I was reinstalling the engine mount bolt on the dynafocal engine mount
next to the fitting, I noticed that there was virtually no clearance between
the mount and the elbow. When the engine moves it will hit the mount.
Before you run your engine, be sure that you check for clearance with this
fitting or you will end up with a big mess at the very least and could ruin
your engine if you don't notice the loss of oil pressure. If it happens in
flight, you are in big trouble.
I have not figured out where to sense the oil pressue since this location is
not usable for my installation. There is an allen nut on the other side of
the back of the engine case where one of the lines to the oil cooler
attaches. Can this be used?
Thanks in advance for any help.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | 100 LL fuel stains |
Does anyone know how to get the blue stains caused by 100LL fuel off of your
plane? I got the stains by over filling the tank a bit trying to figure out
just how much they really hold. I wipped off the fuel but did not realize
the some of it ran down under the wing and on my gear leg. By the way, the
tanks on a 6A hold 19.1 gallons.
Thanks,
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Question re: Pro Seal |
You wrote:
>
>Having once been involved in the manufacture of activators for
>polysulphides (Proseal), the following comments might prove useful.
>
<>
>I hope this information helps your understanding.
>
>Noel Drew
>noeldrew(at)iafrica.com
>
Dear Noel,
Thanks much for the excellent piece on Pro Seal. It is getting
printed out and put directly into my construction manual.
I think your piece represents the very best of what this list is all
about and I thank you again for taking the time to share your
knowledge and experience in such a detailed way to help those of us
who are far less experienced.
Et Joyeux Noel a vous!
Best regards,
Bill Costello
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Building RV-6 | Reserv N97WC
Want an extra hour and a half of energy per day with Super Blue
Green products? Email for info or call 800-325-7544 Chicago
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Preview Plans Set |
You wrote:
>
>Hello,
>Can anyone tell me about the "Preview Plans Set" offered by Van's for
>the RV-6/6A?
>
>Are these just for preview, do you get full plans when you order your
>kit?
>
Yes, they are strictly for preview. They are a reduced size (fit in
a 3-ring binder with each page folded over -- so pages are about
11 inches tall and about 14 or so inches wide when folded out). I
am not sure how current they are, but are sure good for getting an
idea of what is involved.
>I suppose the real question is, for a wannabe builder, will they just
>whet my appetite and feed my fantasies more:)
>
If you like to look at a lot of detail and structure they will
probably whet your appetite for the 'real thing' and to get going.
If you are intimidated about the prospect of building your own
pretty high performance airplane, they might scare you more. But
you have to realize that you don't build the airplane. You build
a bunch of relatively small parts that eventually (I hope!) become
an airplane. Besides, a bunch of us doofuses are building them so
it can't be that difficult.
Now, I am talking about the standard RV-6 kit. I am sure the
quick build can be put together in a weedend or two. ;) Of
course, if you believe that I've got some oceanfront property in
Arizona I'll let go very reasonably. Seriously, I would ask if
there are preview plans for the quickbuild. I don't know, but it
seems like my preview plans would show you a lot of detail about
things already built, which you may or may not care to spend time
going over.
>Thanks, and Happy Holidays
>--
Thanks, and the same to you, Larry. Hope this helps.
>Larry D. Hoatson lhoatson(at)empirenet.com Yucaipa, CA (L12)
>
>Restoring 1950 Cessna 170A N9948A
> Looking forward to RV6Q
>
Best regards,
Bill Costello
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Building RV-6 | Reserv N97WC
Want an extra hour and a half of energy per day with Super Blue
Green products? Email for info or call 800-325-7544 Chicago
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Bronson <70773.2700(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Correction (oops) RE: pitot heat |
Hi Folks:
Yesterday I threw in my two cents worth regarding heated pitot tubes. In
paragraph (3) I commented on loss of airspeed indication in the real world, and
left out the word "not" in the the statement that losing your airspeed
indication "for real" is NOT as simple as having someone cover it up and tell
you it's inop. In other words, you're going to have to figure out on your own
that your airspeed indicator is misleading you - your instructor is not going to
be there to say "Okay, your airspeed's dead," to start you into the
partial-panel mode.
The toughest parts of some emergency situations are a) confirming that you have
a problem, and b) figuring out exactly what the problem is.
Fly safe.
Tim Bronson Pittsburgh, PA RV-8-WB (Wanna Build)
70773.2700(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | 100 LL fuel stain |
Jim,
On painted surfaces, I used polish and that worked. Otherwise, I would try
white gas.
Les
lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com
RV-6A #24643 pre-punched empennage complete, picking up QB kit for tip-up
canopy this week!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: 100 LL fuel stains |
>Does anyone know how to get the blue stains caused by 100LL fuel off of your
>plane?
Get a bottle of auto gas line antifreeze and put some on a rag and wipe your
troubles away. (Test on an inconspicuous area first to make sure it is OK on
your paint: usually will be.)
Michael
RV-4 232SQ
mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Hitchings" <wbgroup(at)lantic.co.za> |
| Subject: | Re: What is RTV? |
Hi there Fellow Listers
The instructions to join the rudder skin to the skeleton make mention of a
compound clled "RTV". I have seen this mentioned in the RVator as well.
I have been unable to obtain any such compound in South Africa where I
live. Not knowing what the substance is precludes me from describing it to
a dealer, or from making a substitute.
Is it anything akin to silcone sealer? Could one use silicone sealer for
the application? (For those w/o their manuals to hand : "Spread the RTV so
that it adheres to the end of the stiffeners and fills the trailing edge of
the skin. This helps absorb vibration and helps prevent possible
cracking.")
Thanks for the help.
Brian Hitchings
Rudder RV-6A
wbgroup(at)lantic.co.za
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Butcher <rbutch(at)inreach.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Preview Plans Set |
Larry Hoatson wrote:
>
> Hello,
> Can anyone tell me about the "Preview Plans Set" offered by Van's for
> the RV-6/6A?
>
> Are these just for preview, do you get full plans when you order your
> kit?
>
> I suppose the real question is, for a wannabe builder, will they just
> whet my appetite and feed my fantasies more:)
>
> Thanks, and Happy Holidays
> --
> Larry D. Hoatson lhoatson(at)empirenet.com Yucaipa, CA (L12)
>
> Restoring 1950 Cessna 170A N9948A
> Looking forward to RV6QLarry;
I just got a set of RV-4 preview plans. While it is obvious that they are not
complete
for construction purposes, and they say that, they give a high degree of insight
as to
the details of construction of the plane. It also provides suggestions and information
on FAA requirements, electrical suggestions, etc. I think they are well worth
the
bucks. Ron Butcher - Turlock, Calif
(Still building a garage to start plane construction)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Preview Plans Set |
Larry Hoatson wrote:
> Can anyone tell me about the "Preview Plans Set" offered by Van's for
> the RV-6/6A?
>
> Are these just for preview, do you get full plans when you order your
> kit?
>
> I suppose the real question is, for a wannabe builder, will they just
> whet my appetite and feed my fantasies more:)
Yes Larry, they will change your nocturnal fantasies to flight. One of
the good ideas that Vans implimented about two years ago was to provide
the full size plans with the kits as they are shipped, that way you will
always have the updated plans and instructions that will match the kit
you are recieving. Before it was not unusual to have 2 or 3 year old
plans that did not include information about the most recent
improvements such as prepunched wing skins. It was difficult for Vans
staff to always ship the correct updates as they could determine from
the plans number. The Preview Plans are 11" x 17" and are very handy to
study while lounging around the TV or to take with you while traveling,
much better than a mystery novel. The instruction manual is included
with the drawings.
Frank Smidler
smidler(at)dcwi.com
RV-6, N96FS, working on finishing kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Proseal (Chatter) |
<< Thanks much for the excellent piece on Pro Seal. It is getting
printed out and put directly into my construction manual.
I think your piece represents the very best of what this list is all
about and I thank you again for taking the time to share your
knowledge and experience in such a detailed way to help those of us
who are far less experienced. >>
I couldn't agree more, Bill. This kind of piece, as well as those recent
postings by Mssrs Ormsby and Strucklen, Dierks, Costello and Corde, are what
I joined the RV-List for. These are truly jewels that cry out to be archived
for present and future RV builders. They were factual, thoughtful, well
presented and worthy of publication in the finest of journals. We should all
aspire to do so well, not to say that every subject requires this kind of
treatment.
And, I must say, chides from time to time not withstanding, our spelling and
grammar has improved dramatically of late ;^). Well done!
-Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Proseal (Chatter) |
Can someone send the 'proseal' writeup to Van's so he can put it
in a future RVator newsletter? This may help others that are not on
the net better understand this 'sticky' stuff.
Herman
>
> << Thanks much for the excellent piece on Pro Seal. It is getting
> printed out and put directly into my construction manual.
>
> I think your piece represents the very best of what this list is all
> about and I thank you again for taking the time to share your
> knowledge and experience in such a detailed way to help those of us
> who are far less experienced. >>
>
> I couldn't agree more, Bill. This kind of piece, as well as those recent
> postings by Mssrs Ormsby and Strucklen, Dierks, Costello and Corde, are what
> I joined the RV-List for. These are truly jewels that cry out to be archived
> for present and future RV builders. They were factual, thoughtful, well
> presented and worthy of publication in the finest of journals. We should all
> aspire to do so well, not to say that every subject requires this kind of
> treatment.
>
> And, I must say, chides from time to time not withstanding, our spelling and
> grammar has improved dramatically of late ;^). Well done!
>
> -Gary VanRemortel
> vanremog(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Osterman III" <PineRanch(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Instrument Panel Overlays with Lighting |
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of aol.com!Mlfred(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 13, 1996 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Instrument Panel Overlays with Lighting
<< Guys,
A local builder is looking for a source for a custom made instrument
panel overlay that incorporates built-in instrument lighting. This would
aleviate the need to purchase all of his instruments with built-in lighting.
Does anyone know of a suitable source?? >>
Try Harold & Judy Pflueger, Trinity Center, Ca. 916 266-3236. I saw their line
at AOPA in San Jose this year. They produce a very complete line of custom
panels/overlays. You can get them with any kind of wood veneer you might like.
Very sharp!
Paul Osterman
RV6A - Drilling wing skins
PineRanch(at)msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure Sensor Fitting |
Jim, two things.
1) There are thousands of engines flying with the oil pressure fitting
in this location (under the right motor mount).
I wonder if you have the proper fitting? There are LOTS of different
size and shape fittings from different vendors.
I would look up in the Lyc parts book and get the part number that
Lycoming specifies. The proper fitting does have the needed clearance.
I think it is a 45% angle fitting.
It is snug and a bitch of a location.
This location is just before the oil goes past the oil pressure
releif valve.
It sounds like the newer engines have also drilled and tapped at the
rear of the case into this same oil galley so there is a choice of
two locations.
2) Regarding the other location, I have seen the allen head plug in this
position. I don't know if this is the same size hole or not.
I 'think' that this hole would be usable to pick up the oil
pressure as this is all part of the high pressure side of the pump
before the oil is routed back into the engine.
What I don't know is what effect the Varitherm temp valve would
have on the pressure sensing. I would think there should be no
change in the pressure. But, as that valve closes to force more
oil to the cooler the flow past that hole may change. I don't know
if that would affect the pressure. I would like to think the
pressure is the same at all these points.
FYI, Lycoming measures pressure on the high side.
Contential measures on the 'low' side, after the oil has went through
the engine. Thus the difference on Lyc oil pressure readings vs
contential.
Herman
dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
> I ran my engine for the first time yesterday. I had a very bad oil leak and
> shut the engine down. Upon inspection, I found that the elbow fitting that
> the oil pressure sensor attaches to had broken. I replaced the fitting and
> as I was reinstalling the engine mount bolt on the dynafocal engine mount
> next to the fitting, I noticed that there was virtually no clearance between
> the mount and the elbow. When the engine moves it will hit the mount.
> Before you run your engine, be sure that you check for clearance with this
> fitting or you will end up with a big mess at the very least and could ruin
> your engine if you don't notice the loss of oil pressure. If it happens in
> flight, you are in big trouble.
>
> I have not figured out where to sense the oil pressue since this location is
> not usable for my installation. There is an allen nut on the other side of
> the back of the engine case where one of the lines to the oil cooler
> attaches. Can this be used?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help.
>
> Jim Cone
> jamescone(at)aol.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What is RTV? |
Brian Hitchings wrote:
>
> Hi there Fellow Listers
>
> The instructions to join the rudder skin to the skeleton make mention of a
> compound clled "RTV". I have seen this mentioned in the RVator as well.
>
> I have been unable to obtain any such compound in South Africa where I
> live. Not knowing what the substance is precludes me from describing it to
> a dealer, or from making a substitute.
>
> Is it anything akin to silcone sealer?
>
> Brian Hitchings
> Rudder RV-6A
> wbgroup(at)lantic.co.za
RTV IS silicone sealer. RTV stands for Room Temperature Vulcanizing I
think. So you're in luck.
Scott
N4ZW
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Lycoming engines |
Could someone direct me to a web site where the differences in the models of
Lycoming engines are detailed. I'm looking for the models of IO 360 that
will fit in the RV-8. I've been searching but have had no luck. Mark
Goldberg.N95MF(at)aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello ) |
| Subject: | Re: Proseal (Chatter) |
You wrote:
>
> Can someone send the 'proseal' writeup to Van's so he can put it
> in a future RVator newsletter? This may help others that are not on
> the net better understand this 'sticky' stuff.
> Herman
Done.
Bill Costello
--
Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Building RV-6 | Reserv N97WC
Want an extra hour and a half of energy per day with Super Blue
Green products? Email for info or call 800-325-7544 Chicago
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
| Subject: | Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
Have you experienced inoperative ASI due to ice *without* flying IFR? I
mean, I was under the impression that you could get pitot ice even
without punching through clouds and flying VFR.
>----------
>From: Doug Rozendaal[SMTP:netins.net!DougR(at)matronics.com]
>Sent: Saturday, December 14, 1996 6:35 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Quickbuild heated pitot tube?
>
>If anyone has any plans to fly IFR in the fall winter or spring, without a
>heated pitot
>please let me know so I can get some life insurance on you.
>
>People seem to like lists on this subject so here is a list of some thoughts
>about icing
>in general from an "old frieght hound"
>
>Things you can count on.
>
>1.If you fly IFR in the winter you will get ice. Forecast be damned.
>2.Little airplanes will fly with obscene amounts of ice on them so be cool.
>3.Obscene amounts of ice can accumulate in seconds, yes seconds (2.5" clear
>ice in 45
>seconds,coming down like a load of bricks. my own personal record.)
>4.The clear ice that looks like it is not a problem will kill you.
>5.The ugly ragged rime ice that looks like it will kill you has much less
>effect on your
>airplane. (4" on a C-402 flew fine.)
>6.Every time you get in the ice, it will be different.
>
>Things to do.
>1.Take imeadiate action. turn around or climb. You can always decend. Ice is
>usually
>limited to a narrow altitude range and if you change altitude you can often
>get out of
>it.
>2.Do not allow ATC to fly your airplane. Don't ask, tell. If you are flying
>along
>FDH(fat,dumb,&happy)in the clear up high don't let approach clear you down in
>to the ice
>40 miles out.
>3.Use all the power you have when climbing through ice. it is cold and your
>engine will
>not overheat in the climb. The best tool in managing ice is climb performace.
> The RV's
>shine here.
>4.Climb at a flatter attitude, higher airspeed, than normal. High angles of
>attack will
>cause ice to form on the belly of the airplane and slow everything down. If
>the nose
>starts to come up high, put on a little flap to get the nose back down.
>5.Remain calm. If you can't see out the window, don't worry, Linbergh landed
>the Spirt
>w/o a windshield.
>6.Remain calm. Don't get slow on approach, don't use much flap to assure you
>don't blank
>out the tail. Fly to the end of the runway and then slow down at a low
>altitude and let
>the airplane land when it is ready.
>7.Remain calm. Understand that you are back in the test pilot phase now and
>you are not
>flying your docile old friend.
>8.Avoid freezing rain at all cost. It will kill you. Deice boots, hot props,
>hot W/S,
>don't matter and are no help. Do not ever decend from warm rain in to cold
>clouds. BTDT
>(been there done that, see above)
>
>I have 3000+ hours in light airplanes in the upper midwest and you can very
>effectively
>use a non-deiced airplane for IFR transportation in the winter. There is no
>reason to be
>afraid of it, just understand it and manage it. Find an old salt and go stick
>your nose
>in the cloud some day with a high ceiling or better yet warm air underneath
>and give it
>a try. Hopefully these "old freight hound" pointers will help. The RV's are
>great
>cross country IFR airplanes, don't let them sit in the hanger all winter.
>Don't be
>afriaid, just be smart. That means, don't even consider going in a cloud, in
>even cool
>weather, without a heated pitot tube. The first time it fails, you will
>understand
>why. BTDT
>
>IMHO
>DougR(at)netins.net
>"Old Frieght Hound" looking for a -4
>No spelling warranty expressed or implied.;)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Rozendaal <DougR(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
Mitch Faatz wrote:
>
> Have you experienced inoperative ASI due to ice *without* flying IFR? I
> mean, I was under the impression that you could get pitot ice even
> without punching through clouds and flying VFR.
>
I don't know, if there is visible precip and it is cold I'd have the
heat on, so I guess the answer is no. My guess is however if it had
been off there are some situations where it could happen. However an ASI
failure VFR should not be a real big deal, maybe a little concern at
night.
IMHO
Tailwinds
DougR(at)netins.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin lane <kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | 0-320 accessory case |
I need to remove the accessory case in order to have it machined for a
fuel pump. Do I need to worry about pulling the mags and disturbing the
timimg? The engine logs say the mags were pulled when it was pickled, so
I have no idea whether the current alignment is even valid. I assume,
similar to an autos' distributor, that the gear engagement position can
be determined finding TDC etc... I was told to pull the oil sump too
rather than trying to save the gasket portion shared by the sump and
accessory case.
Is there anything else I am forgetting to do at this point where
access is very easy to everything? We tore apart the carb. to put in the
metal floats and venturi(seems crazy. things were so new looking they
would have passed for unused). The oil pressure switch appears to come
off the filter housing, not near an engine mount like some others. I
obviously need to locate a manual, there are more holes than I can
account for(three oil drain plugs?)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RCB <snaproll(at)rmi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming engines |
aol.com!N95MF(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Could someone direct me to a web site where the differences in the models of
> Lycoming engines are detailed. I'm looking for the models of IO 360 that
> will fit in the RV-8. I've been searching but have had no luck. Mark
> Goldberg.N95MF(at)aol.com.
Try http://gtravis.ucs.indiana.edu/Engines/Lycoming/Lyc_Cert_list.html
It has a kabillion engines listed and a short description of the
variation in the model. Maybe you'll find what you need.
Roy
RV-8 ordering wing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
Would one of you guys tell me how many people and how much Equip is
needed to unload a RV-6A kit (No finish kit or engine components) from a 3'
high delivery truck...
John Lucas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Oil Pressure Sensor Fitting |
Jim,
In the Aug 94 RVator, pg 10, (where your "handy washer putter-inner" is
pictured) is an article about oil pressure gauge hook-up on a new 0-320-D1A
that Van's installed in the RV-6B. They discovered that using the port near
the centerline of the engine resulted in high oil pressure readings (over 100
lbs.) and moved the fitting to the ususal port near the top right dynafocal
ring.
Les
lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com
RV-6A #24643 empennage complete, picking up tip-up QB this week!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: What is RTV? |
Brian-
RTV (Room Temperature Vulcanizing) is a class of Silicone Adhesive Sealants
that cure without heat provided they are not used in deep sections. A common
silicone sealer usually exudes acetic acid during cure and is reported to
cause definite corrosion in electronics and probably aircraft structures as
well. You would do well to find an RTV Silicone Adhesive Sealant that is
safe for electronics (GE RTV162 is the one I'm most familiar with).
Regards,
Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
Hey guys:
I have been siting in the background waiting for someone to comment,
but since no one has I will.
Icing or other forms of failure in the pitot static system will result
in erroneous readings on a lot more of your instruments than just the
ASI. The altimeter and VSI are also affected. All will give erroneous
and most of the time conflicting readings. Possibly not of much concern
to the strictly VFR pilot who only flys in the daytime, but important
to the rest of us. Even the strictly VFR pilot gets into the habit of
referring and reacting to the ASI frequently
during flight, particularly during climbs and decents and in the
pattern.
There is an excellent write up on the pitot static system in Barry
Schiff's book "Proficient Pilot" and he demonstrated the various
affects of this type of failure in one of the segments he did for "Wide
World of Flying" He is the consummate pro as far as I am concerned and
an excellent teacher. I reread both of his books occasionally and can
recommend them highly. I learn something every time I open one of them
and I am somewhat of an old f _ _t who has accumulated several thousand
hours of experience over the past 40 or so years that I have been
flying.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 0-320 accessory case |
Why do you need the case machined? Most all cases that I've seen have a pad
for a fuel pump. If yours doesn't, I think you'd be better off trading yours
for one that does. Double check to see if there isn't just a cover plate
where the pump should be. Order an Overhaul Manual. You can find several
companies in Trade-A-Plane that sell them.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael A. Pilla" <pilla(at)exit109.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-320 accessory case |
>Why do you need the case machined? Most all cases that I've seen have a pad
>for a fuel pump. If yours doesn't, I think you'd be better off trading yours
>for one that does. Double check to see if there isn't just a cover plate
>where the pump should be. Order an Overhaul Manual. You can find several
>companies in Trade-A-Plane that sell them.
My engine came from a Skyhawk and did not have the fuel pump pad. The
mechanic who supervised the overhaul (morphed into a -D1A from an -E2D)
simply exchanged the accessory case for me - even swap.
Mike Pilla
Michael Pilla
pilla(at)exit109.com
v: (908) 566-7604
f: (908) 566-7936
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-320 accessory case |
aol.com!RV6DD(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Why do you need the case machined? Most all cases that I've seen have a pad
> for a fuel pump. If yours doesn't, I think you'd be better off trading yours
> for one that does. Double check to see if there isn't just a cover plate
> where the pump should be. Order an Overhaul Manual. You can find several
> companies in Trade-A-Plane that sell them.
Some of the accessory cases are not machined for a fuel pump
such as the O-320 E2D that was used on high wing aircraft like
Cessna 172 they did not need a fuel pump because they were gravity
feed. When I first started flying my RV-6 I had a E2D which had to
have the accessory case changed, I just found a case that had the
fuel pump boss machined already and exchanged it. Don't forget that
you have to also install the fuel pump drive push rod, and
if I remember right you have to install a gear to drive the push
rod while you have the the case apart. while you have it apart
also check that the oil pump meets the current AD.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin lane <kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-320 accessory case |
Jerry Springer wrote:
>
> aol.com!RV6DD(at)matronics.com wrote:
> >
> > Why do you need the case machined? Most all cases that I've seen have a pad
> > for a fuel pump. If yours doesn't, I think you'd be better off trading yours
> > for one that does. well, on the phone calls I made they laughed at me and talked
about the
good 'ole days before 6,000 RV builders weren't all looking for what I
was wanting. So I was told I could spend $220 for an accessory cover
(which they didn't currently have in hand) or take it to Aurora and have
it machined for $160 + $35 for the push rod. The cam/gear is the
expensive part, $250+ new, so I am looking for a used one of those, along
with many others if I am to believe my unbiased ;~) sources! I talked
with the salvage yards in Redmond, OR and Omak, WA. My engine definitely
does not have a cover plate, model D2J. It came from a 172P new 1984.
One thing that is confusing to me is how it passed annuals every year
until until the engine was pulled for an 180hp upgrade in 1994, but still
had the plastic floats and two-piece venturi carb. I have not actually
read the applicable AD's, simply heard of them second hand it this point.
kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com RV6A -canopy/latch(RRRRrrrr)E-flaps
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
2 people with strong backs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 0-320 accessory case |
Give Gibson Aviation a call in El Reno Ok. You might be able to work out some
kind of trade for accessory case with the pad on. You can find their address
and phone number in any old trade a plane. It might be cheaper and quicker
than having yours machined.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Timothy J. Etherington" <tjetheri(at)cca.rockwell.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
>pitot tube. Violations sometimes aren't intentional, and they don't have
>to kill you if you're prepared.
>I certainly agree with the prevention part. Towards that end, I believe any
>pilot (VFR or IFR) should memorize (or placard) which key combinations of
>power and rate of descent produce what airspeed in a given aircraft.
>Certainly makes all flying easier overall.
>Additionally, I suspect nowadays most of us will have a GPS on board anyway
>- viola, instant airspeed. Just my $0.02 worth.
This is good if you get out fast enough not to effect the flight
characteristics of the aircraft but if you are in icing you truely want to have
an accurate airspeed indicator and one that will update much more quickly and
act on airmass speed and not ground speed. The heated pitot is needed if you
ever think you will be going near clouds, IMHO.
Tim Etherington
tjetheri@cedar-rapids.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 100 LL fuel stains |
> Does anyone know how to get the blue stains caused by 100LL fuel off of
your
> plane? I got the stains by over filling the tank a bit trying to figure
out
> just how much they really hold. I wipped off the fuel but did not realize
> the some of it ran down under the wing and on my gear leg. By the way,
the
> tanks on a 6A hold 19.1 gallons.
>
Hi Jim. I blew some fuel out of my left tank the first time I filled it
completely full due to a gas cap that wasn't tight enough. After takeoff I
looked over and noticed a small river flowing over the wing. After landing
and tightening the cap I cleaned off the blue dye (the fuel had already
evaporated) with Acetone.
Is the extra .1 IN the tank, or on the gear leg? :)
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 0-320 accessory case (plus chatter) |
<< Do I need to worry about pulling the mags and disturbing the
timimg? The engine logs say the mags were pulled when it was pickled, so
I have no idea whether the current alignment is even valid. >>
Yes, you will have to re-time the mags again. BTW, try to swap your
accessory case for another accessory case that has the fuel pump mount. It
will save you a lot of trouble.
Some food for thought....
You seem concerned that if you pull the mags that you will have to re-time
the engine. You should have checked the timing anyway. Who's to say the the
last guy to do it did it right, or to your satisfaction.
I'll never forget the day a friend of mine had everybody come to the airport
for the first engine start/taxi test of his RV-4. Everything looked great.
The engine cranked over just fine but every time the engine would fire -
bang - backfire. We checked everything (impulse coupler, starter switch,
fuel and Lord knows what else). Someone (I'd like to think it was me but
can't remember) mentioned the engine timing and the reply was "the guy who
built this engine knows what he's doing, I'm sure that it's OK". Well after
everybody gave up, the timing was checked with the buzz box. Looked perfect.
Re-check everything for the tenth time. Back to the timing. This time the
timing was checked and instead of using the timing marks for TDC the spark
plug was pulled from #1 to determine TDC thinking that the starter ring might
be out of phase. Guess what, the starter ring was fine, the mags were 180
degrees out. When the mags were checked with the buzz box all seemed OK
because the box just confirms the timing between the mags.
The lesson I learned from this is that even the experts make mistakes. It's
your but that's straping on that aircraft for the first flight and the
1,000th flight. YOU Check the timing, rigging, tourqe on the bolts and
EVERYTHING else. Don't trust anybody.
When I help out my friends with their A/C I always make sure that they double
check my work. I just couldn't live with myself if I made a mistake on a
friends plane that cost him his aircraft or life.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC, NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
| Subject: | Re: Preview Plans Set |
>I just got a set of RV-4 preview plans. While it is obvious that they are
not complete
>for construction purposes, and they say that, they give a high degree of
insight as to
>the details of construction of the plane.
Ron,
Dont kid yourself about the lack of completeness of the preview plans. When
December 03, 1996 - December 16, 1996
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