RV-Archive.digest.vol-cg
December 16, 1996 - December 28, 1996
you order kits from Vans they come with current plans for that particular
sub-kit. The only difference between the preview plans and the plans that
come with the subkits is the current revision.
For example my preview plans describe the skinning of the wings, with the
same detail as the plans that came with my wing kit. The difference between
the 2 is that my wings have pre-punched skins and the preview plans dont
discuss the prepunch option.
Dont want to worry you , but I didnt want you to be lulled into a false
sense of security either. As you become familiar with construction methods,
you will find that the project is not as intimidating as it seems initially,
and that the lack of detail in the manual is not a factor.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
>>pitot tube. Violations sometimes aren't intentional, and they don't have
>>to kill you if you're prepared.
>
>>I certainly agree with the prevention part. Towards that end, I believe any
>>pilot (VFR or IFR) should memorize (or placard) which key combinations of
>>power and rate of descent produce what airspeed in a given aircraft.
>>Certainly makes all flying easier overall.
>
>>Additionally, I suspect nowadays most of us will have a GPS on board anyway
>>- viola, instant airspeed. Just my $0.02 worth.
>
>This is good if you get out fast enough not to effect the flight
>characteristics of the aircraft but if you are in icing you truely want to have
>an accurate airspeed indicator and one that will update much more quickly and
>act on airmass speed and not ground speed. The heated pitot is needed if you
>ever think you will be going near clouds, IMHO.
>
My response was to a pilot inadvertantly flying into a cloud and
*immediately* trying to find warmer air...not continued intentional flight
into IMC (in which case a heated pitot is mandatory IMHO).
I don't plan on doing either in my RV. But, if the windshield goes white
and the pitot freezes the few moments I'm there, I know memorized power
settings and a GPS "airspeed" for confirmation would assist in getting my
fanny out of there ASAP in the *real* world.
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q project:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker
(last update 12/4/96)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
> 3) Some shops won't certify an aircraft for IFR without a heated pitot.
>
> I vote for the heated tube.
But the original question was from someone who building a VFR RV, he
didn't mention IFR at all. I still say leave it off unless you think
you may want to get your aircraft (and yourself!) IFR certified some
day.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: What is RTV? |
RTV is commonly available in the US in auto-parts stores. It is used
in automotive applications as a gasket compound, weather seal, and
all-around "sticky-goo" for cars.
But for the application in question, it really isn't that critical
what you use. I would think that plain old silicone caulk would work.
Or if you happen to have already gotten some proseal, just use that.
BTW, Vans did some research and testing a while back about the
theoretical problems with RTV's being corrosive to aluminum as a
result of the acetic acid base. Turns out the acetic acid is in there
for the purpose of making the stuff self-etching, and is intended to
"flash off" when it cures, so it shouldn't be corrosive to aluminum,
beyond etching itself into the material on application. This was
supported with tests in an environmental chamber.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-320 accessory case |
What is the serial number of your engine? (or data of MFG)
Some of the early engines did not have the fuel pump pad machined.
I have an E2D mfg in 77 and removed from a 172 and it was machined.
Yes, pull the oil sump. You may as well remove the mags as I would
not trust the the timing after you have it off and back on as
the mag gears will probably get turned when it is off and then the
timming will be messed up when you put the acc case back on.
If you are going to machine it, they will need to be off for machining
anyway.
By the way, make sure inside it is drilled for the push rod that
moves the fuel pump plunger. You will also need this small fuel
pump push rod.
Herman
dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
> I need to remove the accessory case in order to have it machined for a
> fuel pump. Do I need to worry about pulling the mags and disturbing the
> timimg? The engine logs say the mags were pulled when it was pickled, so
> I have no idea whether the current alignment is even valid. I assume,
> similar to an autos' distributor, that the gear engagement position can
> be determined finding TDC etc... I was told to pull the oil sump too
> rather than trying to save the gasket portion shared by the sump and
> accessory case.
> Is there anything else I am forgetting to do at this point where
> access is very easy to everything? We tore apart the carb. to put in the
> metal floats and venturi(seems crazy. things were so new looking they
> would have passed for unused). The oil pressure switch appears to come
> off the filter housing, not near an engine mount like some others. I
> obviously need to locate a manual, there are more holes than I can
> account for(three oil drain plugs?)
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 0-320 accessory case |
I was wrong, I checked with some other people today and there are some cases
without the pad. All agreed though that the best thing to do is a swap.
Wouldn't want to risk an expensive engine over this.
Dave, RV-6, Completed, Flew, Sold, Getting ready to do it all over again
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)bala.HAC.COM (Gil Alexander) |
| Subject: | Slick Mags trade-in value |
RV-listers ....
A rumor I heard is true. If you have any Slick "throw-away"
magnetos around, their trade in value will become ZERO on Jan. 1, 1997, a
mere two weeks away.
So those of you sitting on core (or mid- to high- time) engines
waiting for the RV construction to catch up ...:^) ... check your Slick
mags and make sure they will still have trade-in value next year .... core
charge is approx. $172 each .... if you have any (Slick 4000 series, maybe
others) now is the time to trade them in.
I guess Slick is saying throw away those "throw-away" mags!
... Gil (getting new mags this week) Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
gila(at)flash.net
RV6A, #20701 ... canopy fibreglass work
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
OK you have all sold me on a heated Pitot tube, now how do I make a bracket ?
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PhilipR920(at)aol.com |
I just inspected the wings from my quickbuild and found that the rivets
around the tank protrude between 0.004 and 0.007 in. above the skin surface.
This seems excessive and I am considering using a rivet shaver to
reduce/eliminate the protrusion, but have no experience with the shaver.
Called Van's and talked to Ken about this, but he says that he has never seen
a rivet shaver and doesn't know anyone who has. He also says seven thousants
isn't enough to be concerned about.
I would appreciate advice from anyone re the protrusion and/or use of a rivet
shaver.
thanks,
Phil Rogerson
6AQ 60057/N936PR res.
philipr920(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
> OK you have all sold me on a heated Pitot tube, now how do I make a bracket
?
>
> John
I called Warren Gretz (303) 770-3811 and sent him a check for $100 for the
chromed bracket. Nice work, nice guy, it fit well.
tim lewis
rv-6aq
capntim(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
I used 10 guys and 4 large casters (which were bolted to a couple of 2 x 8's
which were then screwed to the crate).
10 folks was plenty.
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ
CapnTim(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Butcher <rbutch(at)inreach.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Preview Plans Set |
Mike Wills wrote:
>
> >I just got a set of RV-4 preview plans. While it is obvious that they are
> not complete
> >for construction purposes, and they say that, they give a high degree of
> insight as to
> >the details of construction of the plane.
>
> Ron,
> Dont kid yourself about the lack of completeness of the preview plans. When
> you order kits from Vans they come with current plans for that particular
> sub-kit. The only difference between the preview plans and the plans that
> come with the subkits is the current revision.
> For example my preview plans describe the skinning of the wings, with the
> same detail as the plans that came with my wing kit. The difference between
> the 2 is that my wings have pre-punched skins and the preview plans dont
> discuss the prepunch option.
> Dont want to worry you , but I didnt want you to be lulled into a false
> sense of security either. As you become familiar with construction methods,
> you will find that the project is not as intimidating as it seems initially,
> and that the lack of detail in the manual is not a factor.
>
> Mike Wills
> RV-4 (wings)
> willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
> Mike,
Appreciate the input. I'm trying to learn as much as I can before I start construction.
I'll be building a new garage and shop area next spring and will likely begin
on an RV
after that is ut togeter. As of now, I have absolutely no room at all!!!!
Thanks again.....Ron Butcher Turlock, Calif.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "philip.arter" <philip.arter(at)mci2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6AQ wing rivets |
Phil, hi
I have a rivet shaver. It uses a straight cutter bit that fits in the
micro-stop countersink tool. You adjust it to stop just short of the skin.
It works best on flat surfaces but can be used close to the leading edge
if careful. It tends to slide off to one side because it doesn't have a
pilot that fits in a hole. Uhh...nevermind.
I have had it for years, and so I haven't noticed if they sell them in any
of the catalogs.
Phil #80005
philip.arter(at)MCI2000.com
----------
> From: aol.com!PhilipR920(at)matronics.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: 6AQ wing rivets
> Date: Monday, December 16, 1996 7:19 PM
>
> I just inspected the wings from my quickbuild and found that the rivets
> around the tank protrude between 0.004 and 0.007 in. above the skin
surface.
> This seems excessive and I am considering using a rivet shaver to
> reduce/eliminate the protrusion, but have no experience with the shaver.
> Called Van's and talked to Ken about this, but he says that he has never
seen
> a rivet shaver and doesn't know anyone who has. He also says seven
thousants
> isn't enough to be concerned about.
> I would appreciate advice from anyone re the protrusion and/or use of a
rivet
> shaver.
> thanks,
> Phil Rogerson
> 6AQ 60057/N936PR res.
> philipr920(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: 6AQ wing rivets |
I used a rivet shaver on the rivets on my vert stab. It's really easy to
use; just set the depth of the shaver about 0.001 less than the guide. Run
the shaver over the rivet and surrounding area and you're done. It'll tend
to grab at the rivet but if you hold it solidly you shouldn't have any problems.
I'm surprised that Ken hasn't seen one; those of us that aren't perfect
builders find them very useful. :>)
JA
>I just inspected the wings from my quickbuild and found that the rivets
>around the tank protrude between 0.004 and 0.007 in. above the skin surface.
>This seems excessive and I am considering using a rivet shaver to
>reduce/eliminate the protrusion, but have no experience with the shaver.
>Called Van's and talked to Ken about this, but he says that he has never seen
>a rivet shaver and doesn't know anyone who has. He also says seven thousants
>isn't enough to be concerned about.
>I would appreciate advice from anyone re the protrusion and/or use of a rivet
>shaver.
>thanks,
>Phil Rogerson
>6AQ 60057/N936PR res.
>philipr920(at)aol.com
>
>
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What is RTV? |
Randall Henderson wrote:
>
>
> BTW, Vans did some research and testing a while back about the
> theoretical problems with RTV's being corrosive to aluminum as a
> result of the acetic acid base. Turns out the acetic acid is in there
> for the purpose of making the stuff self-etching, and is intended to
> "flash off" when it cures, so it shouldn't be corrosive to aluminum,
> beyond etching itself into the material on application. This was
> supported with tests in an environmental chamber.
When the curing is complete the "ammonia" smell from the acetic acid is
gone and the corrosion would cease. There are non-acid cure RTV's
available, such as Permatex Ultra-Blue, which don't corrode at all.
Bob Reiff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | LOM RV-3 pictures |
Hello all,
I finally have a couple pictures of my RV-3 incorporated into a home page.
They are at http://member.aol.com/lesdrag/ivoprop.htm
I included a link to Matt Dralle's RV Home Page, also.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-320 accessory case |
>> The subject of an O-320 without provisions for a fuel pump is common.
The pan needs to be removed, then the rear case. The mags should come off
first. If you are afraid of timing, this is just one of those things you
should learn about because if you are going to maintain the aircraft you
will want to check the timing occassionally. Be sure and install the parts
for the fuel pump drive before reinstalling the rear case. The machining of
the pad is not that unusual. If an engine started life on a high wing, no
fuel pump. If it started life on a low wing, fuel pump. Often the rear
case will be changed during a major for various reasons and a pad will
appear or disappear at this time, so there is no logical explanation why
there is or is not a fuel pump pad.
Oil pressure should be measured from only one spot on the engine. This is
below the upper mount behind the #3 cylinder. Older engines have one port
facing out to the right and require the fitting be installed prior to the
engine being put on the mount. Newer engines have a port facing aft in the
same general area. Always use a steel fitting here and make it a restricted
fitting by installing an -AD6 rivet in the pipe end of the fitting, cut off
the head and set the rivet so it cannot back out. Then drill the smallest
hole through the rivet that you can (this should generate some controversy).
The restrictor will keep you from pumping all your oil out if the hose to
the oil pressure gauge or transducer fails. Never hang the transducer
directly on the engine. It will eventually break off and there goes your
oil, all over the windscreen. Some poeple have used other ports to measure
oil pressure, but the readings will vary depending on which port is used.
Lycoming sells an operators manual for the engines for about $10 to $15
which indicates what all the ports are used for. Good value since it also
has performance charts for the engine to help you calculate hp. Once you
get one of these and figure how the charts work, you will realize you have
probably been babying the engine you are currently flying. Engines will fly
2000 hours at 75% power, they like it (more controversy?). You will also
see the need for a manifold pressure gauge. Even with a fixed pitch prop it
is a useful instrument. Even I was a skeptic, but now I am a believer.
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 6AQ wing rivets |
Phil, shaving rivets in this area can be touchy buisness I woulnt do it. Each
one of those rivets is just waiting for an excuse to leak. If the shaver
accidently jerks or yanks rather than shave your liable to break the proseal
on one or many rivets. It sounds like the amount they are sticking up will
hardly be noticeable once the airplane is painted.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Solana" <solanas(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | elevator trim wheel |
Being a 172 driver, I sure do like the elevator trim being on a wheel instead
of on a vernier control knob. Has anyone tried this in their RV? Does anyone
know where you can get such a wheel? If it is small emough. it seems like it
might fit.
Rick Solana
RV-6a fuselage out of the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sheinlein(at)VNET.IBM.COM |
| Subject: | Now, how about a heated static port? |
I've read all the postings and thought about how wonderful it was for this
topic on heated pitot tubes to come up just as I'm getting ready to skin
the left wing!
However, it sounds to me like a heated static port is almost as important.
So..... what's up with that? I've seen heated pitot tubes advertised that
have a heated static port built in to them. Comments on those?
In general, does anyone have a heated static port on their plane?
What do you lose (instruments) when your static port gets clogged up?
Do some people install more than one port for safety in redundancy?
Thanks in advance.
Stephen Heinlein
sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com> |
Phil,
Avery carries rivet shaver bits, but the one I got from them seems too big,
although I haven't used it. I did use a surplus one from Boeing extensively
on my first 6A, including the tanks, without any ill effects. Just be
careful and practice on some scrap first.
FWIW, according to Mil-STD-403, shaving may be used to remove a maximum of
.006" of the head. Flush to .004" above the surface is acceptable finished
dimension. Countersunk heads below the surface are not acceptable.
Les
lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com
6A empennage finished, picking up QB fuselage and wings this week!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James K. Hurd" <hurd(at)riolink.com> |
One of these days it's going to warm up enough to paint...
What is best prep/paint to use on steel (e.g. elevator attach brackets)
parts? Priming aluminum with Variprime. I asked Santa for a
beadblaster but I don't think he's gonna come thru for me. So if
there's something at the auto parts store that will work if I promise
never to tie down my bird within 100 miles of the ocean, please name
that can.
Thanks, Jim Hurd New Mexico hurd(at)riolink.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator trim wheel |
At 11:48 AM 12/17/96 UT, you wrote:
>Being a 172 driver, I sure do like the elevator trim being on a wheel instead
>of on a vernier control knob. Has anyone tried this in their RV? Does anyone
>know where you can get such a wheel? If it is small emough. it seems like it
>might fit.
>
>Rick Solana
>RV-6a fuselage out of the jig
Rick,
The manual trim wheel works well and is a simple installation when
compared to the pulley/cable trim systems. Generally, any time you try to
"improve" something like this on a RV, you shoot yourself in the foot. You
might consider the electric trim option.
In regard to being a 172 driver: when you get your RV going, you'll
forget all about ever having flown a 172. You won't even remember what a
172 is, let alone what kind of trim system it had:)
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6AQ wing rivets |
>I just inspected the wings from my quickbuild and found that the rivets
>around the tank protrude between 0.004 and 0.007 in. above the skin surface.
>This seems excessive and I am considering using a rivet shaver to
>reduce/eliminate the protrusion, but have no experience with the shaver.
>Phil Rogerson >6AQ 60057/N936PR res. philipr920(at)aol.com
Phil,
I imagine you can buy the shaver bit from Avery. It fits in your
microstop countersink. If you do decide to use one, the best technique is
to come into the rivet from the side, sliding the countersink along the
surface. If you use this tool, set it up on scrap, first. On less than a
flat surface, you'll have to re-adjust the depth.
I had some high rivets on the fuel tank, as well. I used the shaver on a
couple of them but thought it was too severe. I used the 2 1/2" dia. Scotch
brite wheel on a die grinder and polished the rivets down flush with the
surface. Practice a little. It works very well once you get the hang of
it. (Start on the bottom.) I much prefer this method to the shaver.
Bob Skinner RV-6 350 hrs BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 6AQ wing rivets |
<< I just inspected the wings from my quickbuild and found that the rivets
around the tank protrude between 0.004 and 0.007 in. above the skin surface.
This seems excessive and I am considering using a rivet shaver to
reduce/eliminate the protrusion, but have no experience with the shaver.
Called Van's and talked to Ken about this, but he says that he has never
seen
a rivet shaver and doesn't know anyone who has. He also says seven thousants
isn't enough to be concerned about. I would appreciate advice from anyone re
the protrusion and/or use of a rivet shaver. thanks, >>
DON'T TOUCH 'EM!!!! You will more than likely weaken the rivets or cause a
leak in the tank. I would guess that I have driven over 15,000 rivets in the
last 5 years of my life. Almost every single rivet that I tried to "fix"
turned out worse than when I first screwed it up! If you don't like a rivet,
drill it out and start from scratch.
.004 to .007 you say. Hmmm, let me think about this...ARE YOU NUTS. Get on
with your life and finish your plane. I'll bet in time that you will get
over (even forget, dare I say) these high rivets and one day might even enjoy
your RV.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC, NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.co.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Now, how about a heated static port? |
Text item:
>However, it sounds to me like a heated static port is almost as important.
Not exactly. The FARs require a heated pitot for IFR, but they allow you to
use an alternate static source as an alternative to a heated static port.
Do some people install more than one port for safety in redundancy?
No, they install a static port on each side so you won't get as much error in
uncoordinated flight.
The kit Van's sells includes two ports.
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Subject: RV-List: Now, how about a heated static port?
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 96 08:33:41 EST
From: VNET.IBM.COM!sheinlein(at)matronics.com
ay.jf.intel.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA15980 for | From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Now, how about a heated static port? |
<< What do you lose (instruments) when your static port gets clogged up? >>
Your airspeed acts like an altimeter and your altimeter acts like a airspeed.
So think about it, as your aircraft goes into a nose dive and your aircraft
looses altitude and gains airspeed, your altimeter shows a climb and your
airspeed decreases. Spooky isn't it!
<>
The RV-6 fuselage has a static port on both sides of the fuselage about 18"
behind the baggage bulkhead.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC, NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ken.beanlands(at)aurean.ca |
| Subject: | Re: Now, how about a heated static port? |
Hi,
> However, it sounds to me like a heated static port is almost as important.
> So..... what's up with that? I've seen heated pitot tubes advertised that
> have a heated static port built in to them. Comments on those?
Although I'm not building an RV, I have been following this thread. I was
fortunate enough to pick up a written-off PA-28 when I started my Christavia
with only 20 TTSN (it was being ferried from factory, and no, I don't have
the engine any more; it's in an RV-6 in NS). Anyway, the PA-28 has a heated
pitot/static head under one wing and I believe there is a second static port
in the behind the cabin. The pitot head is heated. It is a small unit about the
same shape and size as a small blade antenna. Unfortunately, I'm not sure what
the make/model is.
> In general, does anyone have a heated static port on their plane?
Well, most of the Cessna/Piper spam cans that I've seen have at least a
heated pitot and some have heated static.
> What do you lose (instruments) when your static port gets clogged up?
You can count on loosing airspeed accuracy, VSI and altitude. People tend to
forget about the ASI. It measures the DIFFERENCE between static and pitot
pressure to determine airspeed. Basically, pitot pressure is a combination of
static pressure and dynamic pressure (what we are interested in) If your static
port froze over at altitude, as you descend, the the static pressure portion
of
your pitot pressure will increase but the compensating static pressure from the
static port will stay at the same low value. The result is a progressively
higher airspeed indication as you descend. So if you use an 80 mph approach
speed, you may only be doing 50-55. Isn't that the stall speed of an RV ?:-)
BTW, the reason the PA-28 that we got crashed was because the static port froze
over. It only froze over at about 1000' AGl so the ASI wasn't affected. However,
he was doing a blind descent and flew into high ground about 5 miles back from
the button. He continued to try to descend when it appeared that the airplane
wouldn't descend. He had just finished a 5 hour flight and it was running late.
Pitot heat was off at the time of the crash.
> Do some people install more than one port for safety in redundancy?
The Cessna 180 I fly actually has 6 static ports. There are two 1.5" plates,
one on each side of the fuselage just ahead of the cabin. Each plate has 3
holes. There is a small valve to switch between primary and alternate air.
This system seems to work well.
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Stephen Heinlein
> sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com
Hope this helps.
Ken
********************************************************************
| Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)
======================== Internet: ken(at)aurean.ca
\-| o |-/ Aurean Systems
\|___|/ NE Calgary, Alberta, Canada
_/___\_ In the shop: Christavia MK 1 C-GREN
(_) (_) KGB http://www.aurean.ca/~ken
********************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BDStobbe <70743.2727(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Stephen Heinlein wrote:
<>
Your ASI, Altimeter, Encoder, and VSI (did I forget any?) are connected to your
static port(s). As far as redundancy is concerned, many (most?) airplanes have
a static port on each side of the fuselage, and some even have an alternate
static source such as a valve which can be opened to allow the cockpit
environment to become the static source - not ideal but better than a plugged
system.
If your static system ices up I believe you will have problems with all of the
above even though your pitot tube is functioning normally.
Also, if you don't have an alternate static source and your static system
becomes plugged you can always break the glass in your VSI (with the axe you
carry for chopping your way out of overturned RVs - sorry, I couldn't resist a
little poke at that old thread :>) and it will then allow the cockpit
environment to be the alternate static port.
I have had static port icing in both a C152 and a Seneca II. The C152 event
happened at night when, after it had been raining all day I took off and climbed
into freezing air with water in the static system lines. The instruments worked
normally until I reached the freezing level, at which point the above mentioned
instruments became basically useless. It was VFR and basically a sightseeing
flight, so my first indication of a problem was when I glanced at the ASI and
thought; hey, I don't remember this baby ever doing 130 kts at 2200 rpm! (or
ever for that matter)
After the flight when I was parked on the ramp I noticed that the ASI was still
indicating 80 kts...
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6; N508RV
fuselage finally out of the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <DougR(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Now, how about a heated static port? |
----------
> From: VNET.IBM.COM!sheinlein(at)matronics.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Now, how about a heated static port?
> Date: Tuesday, December 17, 1996 7:33 AM
>
> I've read all the postings and thought about how wonderful it was for
this
> topic on heated pitot tubes to come up just as I'm getting ready to skin
> the left wing!
>
> However, it sounds to me like a heated static port is almost as
important.
> So..... what's up with that? I've seen heated pitot tubes advertised
that
> have a heated static port built in to them. Comments on those?
You don't need a Heated static port, just an alternate port in the cockpit,
usually a fuel tank quick drain that can open up the static port to the
cockpit. this will result in higher indicated airspeed and higher
indicated altitude due to the low pressure in the cockpit of most
airplanes.
> In general, does anyone have a heated static port on their plane?
Some heavy airplanes do but no light a/c that I am aware of.
> What do you lose (instruments) when your static port gets clogged up?
ASI, VSI, ALT and you don't loose them, unfortunately they just become
highly inaccurate.
A B-757 crashed off south america because 100mph tape was over the static
port for deice or washing. The autopilot was engaged and flew the a/c into
a stall which developed into a spin the way I remember it.
>
> Do some people install more than one port for safety in redundancy?
Some A/C have one on each side of the plane for balance, but all have an
alternate source in the cabin ( or unpressurized portion of the fuse.)
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Stephen Heinlein
> sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com
PS. This discussion brings up another related "war story" An old timer at
our airport came in and landed one day in his bonanza. He did not fly
much. He said that his airplane would not hardly fly today. I asked what
the problem was and he said no power. I said lets go for a ride. We
taxied out and he pushed the power up to 24" he said I never use more than
that. We were barely accelerating. I reached over and pushed the power to
the firewall and away we went. I covered the M.P. gauge and he flew around
just fine. I uncovered it and he quickly reduced power to his normal 22"
cruise and we were falling out of the sky. I covered it up again pushed up
the power and said let's go land. Without looking at M.P. he did just fine
and we landed. I got out and opened the hood and the manifold pressure
line was within one turn of falling off the intake pipe. Moral of the
story, just like the 737 that went in the river at DCA, don't believe any
of these instruments blindly. Sooner or later they all lie. When they do
"Remain Calm" figure out who is lying and who is telling the truth and
cover up the liar with a post-it note. In the mean time, FLY THE AIRPLANE.
Tailwinds
Doug Rozendaal Dougr@netins.net http://www.netconx.net/petroblend/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Now, how about a heated static port? |
>I've read all the postings and thought about how wonderful it was for
this
>topic on heated pitot tubes to come up just as I'm getting ready to
skin
>the left wing!
>
>However, it sounds to me like a heated static port is almost as
important.
>So..... what's up with that? I've seen heated pitot tubes advertised
that
>have a heated static port built in to them. Comments on those?
>
>In general, does anyone have a heated static port on their plane?
>
>What do you lose (instruments) when your static port gets clogged up?
>
>Do some people install more than one port for safety in redundancy?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Stephen Heinlein
>sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com
GenevaAn alternate air source is usually
installed in the toasty warm cockpit.
If the static ports are on the sides of the fuselage two are used, but,
not for redundancy, but to take care of pressure variations caused by
yawing and turbulence.
Some static ports are in the pitot tube structure itself. I don't know
where they are on an RV.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Now, how about a heated static port? |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Stephen,
There are heated pitot tubes that have the static port built intot
them. This is probably the best solution to the static port icing
problem. Having built my RV-6A with the standard static system, I choose
to install an alternate static port in the cockpit. While using it will
introduce an altitude error, it is bettter than loosing the static system
completely, whhich usually results in the need to smash the glass on one
of the static based instruments (Rate, altimeter, or airspeed).
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>I've read all the postings and thought about how wonderful it was for
this
>topic on heated pitot tubes to come up just as I'm getting ready to skin
>the left wing!
>
>However, it sounds to me like a heated static port is almost as
important.
>So..... what's up with that? I've seen heated pitot tubes advertised
that
>have a heated static port built in to them. Comments on those?
>
>In general, does anyone have a heated static port on their plane?
>
>What do you lose (instruments) when your static port gets clogged up?
>
>Do some people install more than one port for safety in redundancy?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Stephen Heinlein
>sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List (Chatter) |
My brother sent me this information. It may be pertinent here, as we have
done all of these things at least once in the past year.
<< Friends,
As the new year heats up with the list's customary misunderstandings
I wanted to make a few suggestions so that we never have to go
without. The list nearly died of neglect over the holidays when people
went out of town and forgot to post parting shots at their favorite
adversaries. Without those little arrows of rancor and wit the
digital fires nearly expired and the communications depended on humor
and sexual innuendo to keep any kind of passion in play.
In order to avoid such a bleak period again, empty of the juicier emotions
and wittier, sharp edged repartee, I offer the following. The principles
have been successfully tested time and time again as many of you have
witnessed. Please feel free to draw on them when bored, feeling malicious
but uninspired, when your self esteem needs a hit of self righteousness to
get straight, or anytime you're in the mood for a brawl. The principles
applied with thought, or especially without thought, are guaranteed to
give you a rush of indignation and adrenalin. Develop your skill and
you can enjoy not only the contest with it's delicious sense of meaningful
conflict but also the pleasure of crushing the opponent's pride. (And
how sweet it is.)
1) Make sure you bring up your views on abortion, capital punishment,
Christianity, and the political party you least like, regularly. When
you do so, do so with vigor, enthusiasm, and scorching wit. Who
knows, you may eventually beat those who embrace the opposite
(wrong) side of the argument into submission and they will convert to
your views, thereby making the world a better place.
2) Refer to your opponents in arguments (or debates that hold the
promise of becoming arguments) as facists as often as possible.
Suggest that their views parallel the Nazi's at least once in any
good flame war.
3) Point out the shortcomings of the opposite gender. Use tasteless
jokes. Base all characterizations of the opposite gender on the very
worst traits of your ex or current spouse, or your ex or current love
interest. If you haven't personally been mistreated while remaining
spotlessly innocent use other people's histories.
4) When you've managed to get a good heated exchange going try to
score points by using a vocabulary that will drive your opponent to
the dictionary. Mock any attempts on their part to do the same. If
possible humiliate them with ironic references to misspellings, ill
conceived sentence construction, or, best, inappropriate word usage.
Winning in this area makes you sexier.
5) Never apologize. If you make an error in thinking blame it on the
muddy post to which you are responding. If you act like an idiot, a
boor, a bore, or a whiner, do the same.
6) When inspired make sure you word your attacks and counterattacks so
that you leave no opening for your adversary to capitulate to your
view except in disgrace. Try to make certain that every avenue of
response is a path of shame.
7) If you start to slip in an argument attack the person. It's most
helpful to know something personal about them but the medium has
restrictions in this area. I recommend keeping a catalog of stupid,
awkward, or embarrassing posts that people make so you can throw
them in their face later as proof of their deficiencies as a human.
8) If someone does the same to you respond that in their reliance on
ad hominem attacks the argument has deteriorated to a level that no longer
warrants your participation. This can be a winning blow if played
properly. Be subtle here, and clever; try to convey the sense of your
opponent as dim-witted, ethically degenerate, desperate, and
outmanuevered by your overwhelming intellectual superiority.
The real joy here is that you can neatly do away with any respect
due your opponent, slander his character, lacerate his pride, and,
if done properly and with elan, simultaneously represent yourself as a
man or woman whose ethics and moral sensitivity make it impossible
for you to do what you just did. This one is a real gem and when
executed gracefully an act of art.
8) Remember that you are always right. And I do mean always. No
matter what forces are marshalled against you, no matter how reasonable,
humble, or generous, don't give an inch, don't be swayed. You are
always right. It's the other side that caused this ruckus and keeps
it going.
9) Always insist on the last word. The only honorable finish is
unconditional capitulation by your adversaries or their defeated
silence.
I trust that these guidelines will be of aid. I find myself too often
relegated to the sideline carrying as I do the sandwich board for a
business on my digital body. So onward comrades! Don't flag! Don't
apologize! Draw out your rapier wit, your unshielded anger, your
superiority, your sarcasm, your electric selves! Think of your great
beauty as you weave back and forth, the words your blades. Eventually
I'll get a second internet account and, being then anonymous and free
of reflecting negatively on the business, will join you. How my blood
cries out!
With envy,
Mark Dahlby >>
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: elevator trim wheel |
Rick, Forget it! The vernier control works great, so does the electric trim
option. Im sure once your airplane is finished you wont be flying it a
110mph because its comfortable, and thats what your used to. Trust me 1
flight in that Rv and you will forget about that 172. Ryan RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan Carroll <carroll(at)geology.wisc.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting Steel |
>One of these days it's going to warm up enough to paint...
>
>What is best prep/paint to use on steel (e.g. elevator attach brackets)
>parts? Priming aluminum with Variprime. I asked Santa for a
>beadblaster but I don't think he's gonna come thru for me. So if
>there's something at the auto parts store that will work if I promise
>never to tie down my bird within 100 miles of the ocean, please name
>that can.
>
I'm curious about this too, since I've found it virtually impossible to
avoid flash-rusting after cleaning up the 4130 steel. There are about half
a dozen postings in the archives which don't completely answer the question.
The local auto paint store suggested something called "Marhyde
Primer-Sealer" (not the same stuff sold by Avery?), which as I understand
it is supposed to convert iron and ferrous oxide (rust) into black ferric
oxide, which can be painted. Has anyone used this before?
Alan Carroll
RV-8 #80177 (Empenage)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Armour <grahama(at)cmw.ca> |
I am interested in any of you cold weather souls who have fitted any
kind of winter baffling to your RV 6.
Did you fit baffles to the air inlets, reduce cowl air exit size, or any
other method? Any information would be appreciated as to what methods
used and success achieved?
Thanks
Graham Armour
RV 6 C-FVMH (Flying)
Ottawa, ON Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 6AQ wing rivets |
Why does it not suprise me that Ken has never seen a rivet shaver.
My tank rivets also protruded slightly due to the proseal. I borrowed a real
rivet shaver (as oppossed to a shaver bit in a countersink tool) and shaved
the tank rivets I was unhappy with. If you're careful, it works very well
and was quite easy. My plane is now 4 years old with nearly 400 hours, so
far there have been no fuel tank problems. Remember you'll only be doing
this for asthetics. A true rivet shaver is extremely expensive. If you
can't borrow one, I wouldn't worry about it and let the rivets go.
Rick McBride
RV6 N523JC
RV8 80027
RICKRV6(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Now, how about a heated static port? |
My Deb has two static ports, one on each side of the fuselage, like RVs.
Inside the cabin is a valve you can open to have the static port inside, and
hopefully out of the ice! I need to refresh my memory as to exactly where mine
is :~)
I have read that pilots have also broken the glass in the VSI to do open a new
static "port".
Inside cabin is less accurate.
I also suspect that the static ports, if kept waxed, just don't stick to the ice
whereas the pitot tube is out there looking for it.
Hal Kempthorne halk(at)netcom.com Santa Clara, CA. (SJC)
Debonair N6134V RV-6AQ on order!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Hobby Stevens' Visit to OMABP and flying the Chevy powered |
RV-6A
After flying the RV-6A V-6 Hobby Stevens wrote:
>I'm hoping the installation goes a least 1,000 hours before ... (overhaul)
I agree that would be nice!
But what if it only goes 500 hours? How long is that for most pilots - five
years? And then you remove it and replace it for about $1600 with a brand new
one, putting the old one in a little S10 pickup or Blazer. Or sell it.
But it probably will go 1,000 hours. Ernie told us right here about the tests
done by Chevrolet where they ran one under very severe conditions for over 500
hours and, on tear down, saw almost no wear. 1,000 hours at 75mph is not at all
uncommon for Bay Area freeway commuters. In fact, the engine is only half way
through.
Unless it takes twenty years, Lycomings go 2000 hours, usually. If you execute
a missed approach and forget the mixture, however, the time is up very soon.
But while they may have broken rods, valves, pistons, and pins, they are a
"known quantity". Most can even stagger on for another 2000 hours even with the
same cranks, rods, camshafts and gears, cylinders and even some of the valves!
We know they are tough, we know how much we can depend on them.
Hal Kempthorne halk(at)netcom.com Santa Clara, CA. (SJC)
Debonair N6134V RV-6AQ on order!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
WOW! It sounds you must have had about eight guys sitting around
drinking beer! I had the luxury of four guys on the fuselage (probably
could be done with two big guys). The wings were easy with one guy on
each end.
--------------------- cut here
--------------------------------------------------------------
Mitch Faatz mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com San Jose, CA
RV-6AQME N727MF (reserved)
Finished with empennage, working on rear fuselage skin & left wing
>----------
>From: aol.com!TimRV6A(at)matronics.com[SMTP:aol.com!TimRV6A(at)matronics.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 1996 4:11 AM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: rv-6 QB
>
>I used 10 guys and 4 large casters (which were bolted to a couple of 2 x 8's
>which were then screwed to the crate).
>
>10 folks was plenty.
>
>Tim Lewis
>RV-6AQ
>CapnTim(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I have just completed my carb air box for RV-6, O-360-A1A, C/S
and I'm wondering how to get warm air from the heat muff to the
box. A 2" flange dosen't look like a possibility and I don't see much
in the way of drawings showing this. Given the number of completed
RV-6's I'm hoping someone has a simple solution.
Bob Lovering Cowling and fiberglass fun.
rv6 air(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Caldwell <74504.1365(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Riveting Aileron Skins |
For those of you who haven't yet riveted your aileron skins, please exercise
caution. I finished both of my ailerons last weekend and they are a mess and
need to be redone again. The problem is riveting the row of rivets on the top
skin that connect the skin to the top spar. I dented on of my skins in about a
dozen places. The other skin has 3-4 dents. I was absolutely sick when this
occurred. I knew how fragile the skins were so I turned down the pressure on my
rivet gun before starting. Apparently I didn't turn the pressure down far
enough. I used the smallest bucking bar that Avery makes and it was still
difficult to buck the rivets. I've tried repairing the dents with bondo and I
have sanded my fingers to the bone but to no avail. Even with a a coat of
primer, the skins still look awful. Also, I'm afraid the bondo will eventually
work loose.
I did the riveting by myself. I would strongly recommend getting some to help
you buck the rivets. Well, I guess I'll have to re-buy materials to rebuild
some new Ailerons and start over. Perhaps, I can find someone else to build
them for me. My flaps turned out great, so I was surprised when my ailerons
gave me trouble. Best wishes to everyone else in this area.
Ron Caldwell
74504.1365(at)compuserve.com
RV6A N655RV - Reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Now, how about a heated static port? |
> I choose to install an alternate static port in the cockpit. While
> using it will introduce an altitude error, it is bettter than loosing
> the static system completely, which usually results in the need to
> smash the glass on one of the static based instruments (Rate,
> altimeter, or airspeed).
People often talk about that "Smashing the Glass" technique. But I wonder, do
they all make their air-tight seal with the faceplate glass? It would be a
shame to smash an instrument and find out that it doesn't fix the problem.
--
(Sorry Randall, no more room for the Yakko Warner quote)
Richard Chandler
RV-6: Garage bought, saving for tools and tail kit (Christmas?).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Slick Mags trade-in value (fwd) |
Gill, yes this is true. I just talked to Matattuck today.
However, it is still cheaper to trade in a Bendix (or any non-slick)
mag as they will give you a $150.00 rebate per mag.
For example, a pair of slick mags in kit #4517 (4373 and 4370 plus harness)
is $753.33 with exchange of a pair of slick mags for the cores
(this includes the ol 'throw-away' slick mags up thru 12/31/96).
However, if you were to send in a pair of old bendix mags as cores
and any old harness, then the will rebate you $150.00 (I think per mag).
Herman
> From owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com Mon Dec 16 16:47:17 1996
> Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 13:26:33 -0800
> From: bala.HAC.COM!gil(at)matronics.com (Gil Alexander)
> Subject: RV-List: Slick Mags trade-in value
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Message-Id: <v02130502aedb6cda5fab@[147.17.239.61]>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
> Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Precedence: bulk
> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> RV-listers ....
>
> A rumor I heard is true. If you have any Slick "throw-away"
> magnetos around, their trade in value will become ZERO on Jan. 1, 1997, a
> mere two weeks away.
>
> So those of you sitting on core (or mid- to high- time) engines
> waiting for the RV construction to catch up ...:^) ... check your Slick
> mags and make sure they will still have trade-in value next year .... core
> charge is approx. $172 each .... if you have any (Slick 4000 series, maybe
> others) now is the time to trade them in.
>
> I guess Slick is saying throw away those "throw-away" mags!
>
>
> ... Gil (getting new mags this week) Alexander
>
>
> gil(at)rassp.hac.com
> gila(at)flash.net
>
> RV6A, #20701 ... canopy fibreglass work
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
>I am interested in any of you cold weather souls who have fitted any
>kind of winter baffling to your RV 6.
>
>Did you fit baffles to the air inlets, reduce cowl air exit size, or any
>other method? Any information would be appreciated as to what methods
>used and success achieved?
>
>Thanks
>Graham Armour
>RV 6 C-FVMH (Flying)
>Ottawa, ON Canada
Graham,
I have removable baffles installed in front of cylinders 1 & 2. They are
about 4 1/2 inches high and the width of the cylinders. These do raise the
CHTs 50 to 75 degrees. In very cold weather, I have resorted to closing off
1/3 to 1/2 of the intake with duct tape. Certainly not an ideal fix and
I've done it mostly just to see what happens. Also, I don't do this unless
there are a lot of airports around in case there is a problem. I wouldn't
take off from home (Lexington, NE) and go to say, Buffalo, WY, because there
is NOTHING in between.
Closing off the inlets does work but you must climb at a shallower angle
to avoid raising CHTs. Once in cruise, the CHTs are fine and run a around
25-50 degrees F warmer. (Sorry, my GEM Insight only measures CHTs in 25
degree increments.) Besides rasing CHTs slightly, the oil temp is higher
(where I like it) and there seems to be more cabin heat. I have an idea for
the future to mold a removable section that will attach to the bottom cowl
inlet with a couple of screws.
There was some talk on the list awhile back about cowl flaps. Maybe those
who have installed them will give us a report.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
Block off the oil cooler for sure. I just used a piece of aluminum
but the method will depend on how your oil cooler is mounted.
Another trick I use on my C170 is to simply use Duck Tape to tape
over part of the air inlet into the cowl. The Cessna factory
winterization kit does this with some aluminum baffels. They just
block off the inboard (closest to the prop) part of the inlet.
This still keeps good airflow to the cyl. heads and the barrels don't
need as much. With duck tape, I can add it or remove it quickly
as the temp changes (must be done on the ground of course).
It does not look very nice but it is simple and it works.
I have though about doing the same on the RV4 as I don't see a
simply way to block off the cowl inlets.
Adding cowl flaps on the outlet would also work but more complex
to do.
Herman
dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
> I am interested in any of you cold weather souls who have fitted any
> kind of winter baffling to your RV 6.
>
> Did you fit baffles to the air inlets, reduce cowl air exit size, or any
> other method? Any information would be appreciated as to what methods
> used and success achieved?
>
> Thanks
> Graham Armour
> RV 6 C-FVMH (Flying)
> Ottawa, ON Canada
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | Riveting Aileron Skins |
Could you please be more specific about how you did this and what was the
difficulty? I'm about at the step where I need to rivet both of mine and
for the life of me I can't seem to figure out how I'm going to get a bar
square to the shop side without hitting the spar web. I'd like to hear
about what you found difficult so I can try to work around it.
If anyone has a novel suggestion or some gotchas about riveting the top of
the aileron to the spar, please reply to me (mikeang(at)microsoft.com). If I
get some interesting replies I'll summarize and re-post to the list.
Thanks,
-Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Caldwell [SMTP:CompuServe.COM!74504.1365(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 1996 12:02 PM
Subject: RV-List: Riveting Aileron Skins
For those of you who haven't yet riveted your aileron skins, please
exercise
caution.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DMCooke <dmcooke(at)rand.nidlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Now, how about a heated static port? |
aol.com!RV6junkie(at)matronics.com wrote:
> Your airspeed acts like an altimeter and your altimeter acts like a airspeed
If you have one of those hand held GPS units along you can get back up
information on altitude and speed while you look for a place to open
the pitot/static system to cockpit ambient conditions. :-)
Dave
Dave Cooke
dmcooke(at)rand.nidlink.com
Building RV-4 ailerons in North Idaho
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DMCooke <dmcooke(at)rand.nidlink.com> |
What is the snail mail address for the contact person in the OMABP?
Thanks in advance.
Dave
dmcooke(at)rand.nidlink.com
North Idaho; RV-4; ailerons
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 6AQ wing rivets |
<< Phil, shaving rivets in this area can be touchy buisness I woulnt do it.
Each
one of those rivets is just waiting for an excuse to leak. If the shaver
accidently jerks or yanks rather than shave your liable to break the proseal
on one or many rivets. It sounds like the amount they are sticking up will
hardly be noticeable once the airplane is painted. >>
Ryan has probably used this tool more than most- he has a point. I remember
the great Tony "Bungle-it" saying to use a fine file to fix minor bumps such
as this. Hold the file at about 30 deg to the rivet line, and have at it. The
prep for paint process will hide most of the file marks anyway, and a bit of
extra sanding in this area will make them dissappear.
Check six!
Mark
BTW- remember me telling of the accident with my Rocket @ Longmont? Ryan was
in the back.... Oh, the fond memories. ;-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Riveting Aileron Skins |
You don't say where you are but I'm sure that if you're anywhere near
another RV builder or flyer that you can get help. What pressure and size
gun did you use? You're right that sometimes a second set of hands makes it
much easier (and more fun, too).
John Ammeter
>For those of you who haven't yet riveted your aileron skins, please exercise
>caution. I finished both of my ailerons last weekend and they are a mess and
>need to be redone again. The problem is riveting the row of rivets on the top
>skin that connect the skin to the top spar. I dented on of my skins in about
a
>dozen places. The other skin has 3-4 dents. I was absolutely sick when this
>occurred. I knew how fragile the skins were so I turned down the pressure
on my
>rivet gun before starting. Apparently I didn't turn the pressure down far
>enough. I used the smallest bucking bar that Avery makes and it was still
>difficult to buck the rivets. I've tried repairing the dents with bondo and I
>have sanded my fingers to the bone but to no avail. Even with a a coat of
>primer, the skins still look awful. Also, I'm afraid the bondo will eventually
>work loose.
>
>I did the riveting by myself. I would strongly recommend getting some to help
>you buck the rivets. Well, I guess I'll have to re-buy materials to rebuild
>some new Ailerons and start over. Perhaps, I can find someone else to build
>them for me. My flaps turned out great, so I was surprised when my ailerons
>gave me trouble. Best wishes to everyone else in this area.
>
>Ron Caldwell
>74504.1365(at)compuserve.com
>RV6A N655RV - Reserved
>
>
>
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
I looked at a RV6 with O320 and x-over exhaust last weekend.
The prior builder had tried to route the 2 inch SCAT tube from
the heat muff on the Right ex to the air box by going fwd and
between the exh pipes. The SCAT tube was fried black, an ugly
sight.
The solution is to use a small heat muff around the crossover
pipe that goes across the front of the sump and route a short
SCAT tube to the air box inlet. I gave this builder a small
heat muff that I had bought from ACS or Wicks. It is about
4 inches long and just wraps around the exh stack and is
open on each end. It has a 2 inch fitting to attach the
SCAT tube. You attach the muff to the pipe with two SS hose
clamps. I think Tony's books/articles shows the same device.
You can then just block off the other port on the back of the
normal heat muff.
Herman (RV4)
> I have just completed my carb air box for RV-6, O-360-A1A, C/S
> and I'm wondering how to get warm air from the heat muff to the
> box. A 2" flange dosen't look like a possibility and I don't see much
> in the way of drawings showing this. Given the number of completed
> RV-6's I'm hoping someone has a simple solution.
>
>
> Bob Lovering Cowling and fiberglass fun.
> rv6 air(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Van's, You're Next! (humor) |
| From: | Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)highfiber.com> |
Subject: FW: Boeing Press Release
Date: Tuesday, December 17, 1996 7:30AM
SEATTLE, WASHINGTON. The Boeing Airplane Company today announced the
purchase of the United States Air Force for a reported $2.6 trillion.
The surprise announcement follows weeks of speculation that the
service was on the verge of filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.
According to a Boeing spokeswoman, the move was natural since "Boeing
makes the Air Force inventory; we may as well operate it, too." The
take-over makes Boeing the country's largest operator of combat
aircraft and nuclear missiles. One major offshoot of the acquisition
is the formation of a new labor union, the United Federation of
Combat
Aircrews. Newly-elected UFCA president Jimmy "Hoffa" Smith said the
first item on the union's agenda is to put a "Weekday Fighting Only"
clause in the combat pilots' contract. The purchase fuels
speculation
that the Walt Disney Company will acquire the United States Navy and
Coast Guard in the near future.
Back to buildin' (canopy skirts)
Mike Kukulski
RV-4 N96MK
kukulski(at)highfiber.com
Albuquerque, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Now, how about a heated static port? |
> People often talk about that "Smashing the Glass" technique. But I wonder, do
> they all make their air-tight seal with the faceplate glass? It would be a
> shame to smash an instrument and find out that it doesn't fix the problem.
Yes it would, which is why you should install a valve for alternate
static air in your cockpit so you never have to "smash the glass".
It is simple and cheap (one of the few things that is!)
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Sellmeyer" <scotts(at)pacusa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator trim wheel |
As a 172 and Mooney driver, I would have to second this opinion, although I
do not have enough time in RVs know whether I would like the vernier trim
system.
I especially like the aluminum trim wheels found in the older Mooneys, like
the M20C. It is a nice stamped (I believe) wheel with knurled edges that
assure a positive grip. I think the diameter is probably around 6 inches,
so it should not be a big problem to install in the RV cockpit. If
electric trim is desired, a suitable motor could probably be located and
mounted to the trim wheel in some fashion without too much pain and
anguish. In the event of a runaway, the breaker could be pulled and the
trim just reset manually. The trim wheel could probably be had for peanuts
from any of the big salvage yards.
I plan on pursuing this idea when I get that far, but I may change my mind
when I see how much work is actually involved! :)
Scott Sellmeyer
scotts(at)pacusa.com
RV-6 empennage
----------
>
> Being a 172 driver, I sure do like the elevator trim being on a wheel
instead
> of on a vernier control knob. Has anyone tried this in their RV? Does
anyone
>
> know where you can get such a wheel? If it is small emough. it seems like
it
> might fit.
>
> Rick Solana
> RV-6a fuselage out of the jig
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 6AQ wing rivets |
To answer your question about shaving the rivits. I did this in a few places
on my
RV-4. It works well. You need to shave the rivit graduelly and be sure your
counterstop is set a couple of thousants above the skin. The rivits I used
had a indenture in the center of the rivit. Be sure you do not shave any
deeper than the depth of the indenture for structural reasons.
Chris May
RV-4 N595CM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 6AQ wing rivets |
Thanks for the memories Mark!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net (Chris Brooks) |
| Subject: | elavator trim wheel |
Rick, RANS Inc. @ (913) 625-6346 offers a trim tab kit with a wheel that
would possibly work. several people on the list have commented that the
vernier cable has some play because of the loop in it, although the 2
people I know locally with flying RV's don't seem to have a problem with
it. I installed the electric trim because I am a "gadget freak", that's
one of the benefits of biulding your own plane, you can biuld to suit
your own preferences.
Chris Brooks RV-6 BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net (Chris Brooks) |
| Subject: | Re: OMABP Address |
Jess Meyers @ Belted Air Power, 1408 Western Avenue, Las Vegas, NV.
89102 phone (702) 384-8006
Chris Brooks RV-6 BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Bronson <70773.2700(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | RV-8 and general questions |
Ladies and Gentlemen:
I am seriously considering building an RV-8. This will be my first homebuilt.
I asked Van's about preview plans for the -8 and was told they did not expect to
have them before early 1998. For those of you who are building 8's, what did
you do? Did you buy preview plans for the -4? Or -6? None of the above? Any
suggestions?
I'm new to the RV-list. I just got back from a two day trip and had 71 (!)
messages waiting. Is the list always this active? If so, I'm afraid I may have
to unsubscribe until time to build gets closer.
Thanks.
Tim Bronson - Pittsburgh, PA.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Caldwell <74504.1365(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Riveting Aileron Skins |
I appreciate those who responded to my sad story about very poor Aileron
riveting job. Several have asked for further details. Yes, I did use a 3x
rivet gun. Perhaps a 2x would have been better. One repondent suggested using
a piece of steel 6 by 3 by 1/2 inches for the bucking bar. The 6 by 1/2 should
have beveled sides at 8 degrees. This would allow the bucking bar to lay flush
against the spar flange. I talked to some builders in the my local group
tonight. They would suggest that I also made a mistake in using the large
swivel rivet head attachment on my rivet gun. They think the large diameter of
this attachment could have put pressure (vibrated) against the end of the
stiffners near this row of rivets and caused the skins to crease. Anyway,
several of my builder friends have offered to help me rivet or buck when I go
to rebuild my ailerons. It sure is great to have such good airplane (RV)
friends nearby. I hope this additional info. helps someone else.
Ron Caldwell
RV6A N655RV- Reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kiwi(at)jetstream.net (Kiwi) |
| Subject: | Re: elevator trim wheel |
Check with Homer Rogers at Revelstoke, British Columbia ( you know, that is
where we chase Polar Bears all winter ). This man is a brilliant builder
with lots of ideas. He has custom built a trim wheel using ( yes ) a car
manual window winder. I think it fits under the front of the seat cushion
somehow. His phone number is (250)837-3670
===============================================================================
At 11:48 AM 17/12/96 UT, you wrote:
>Being a 172 driver, I sure do like the elevator trim being on a wheel instead
>of on a vernier control knob. Has anyone tried this in their RV? Does anyone
>know where you can get such a wheel? If it is small emough. it seems like it
>might fit.
>
>Rick Solana
>RV-6a fuselage out of the jig
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator trim wheel & true stories |
>At 11:48 AM 12/17/96 UT, you wrote:
>>Being a 172 driver, I sure do like the elevator trim being on a wheel....
>>
>>Rick Solana
>>RV-6a fuselage out of the jig
>
>Rick,
> The manual trim wheel works well and is a simple installation...
Generally, any time you try to "improve" something like this on a RV, you
shoot yourself in the foot. You might consider the electric trim option.
> In regard to being a 172 driver: when you get your RV going, you'll
>forget all about ever having flown a 172. You won't even remember what a
>172 is, let alone what kind of trim system it had:)
>
>Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
Rick, Having flown an RV-4 with a trim wheel (mine) and Van's RV's with the
vernier, the vernier is the preferred system. You have flown the wheel and
are familiar with it, but once you fly with the vernier, and get used to
its sensitivity, it will be your preferred trim. As Bob implied, changes
cost time. do your customizing in the instrument panel layout or paint scheme.
When you start flying, 172's are just bogies (targets at 12 oclock). It is
enjoyable to slide up and fly along side (at 500 foot distance) another
aircraft (we do not want to startle the other pilot, so keep your distance
and keep the dirty side down until he recognizes that you are there), then
rock your wings, advance the throttle and as he slides backward, check to
make sure he does not step out of his plane to see why his plane stopped,
then a nice gentle roll or a steep climb while pulling away will make him
take notice. I've actually had pilots call on 122.75 and ask me to do that
again. One Cherokee pilot was talking to me as we performed the roll and
you could hear his wife screaming with delight. She made us come back twice
so she could video our back side, because that was all she saw as we went
screaming by. Bill
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bennett(at)healey.com.au |
(snip)
< is to simply use Duck Tape to tape(snip)
Might cause dangerous quacks to develop.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 working inside fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harold Sutphin <hsutphin(at)magicnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting Steel |
There are several products for steel rust treatment or priming. The two
that I have used include: OSPHO and Marhyde One Step Converter. The
OSPHO should be used to get rid of minor "flash-rusting" on bare metal
and after sanding or bead blasting. Bead blasting by itself does not
eliminate rust in the microscopic pits and cracks and must be treated.
OSPHO has a thin viscosity and can be easily sprayed.
The Marhyde "One Step" is a black oxide rust converter that does an
excellent job on steel that has heavier rust on it. It converts rust to
a tough black oxide coating. It is a milky liquid that can be sprayed
and it cleans up with water. The Marhyde isn't cheap. Even with an
aerospace company discount it is around $25/qt.
Harold
Lockheed Martin
//RV-6A//Wing kit//
Alan Carroll wrote:
> >What is best prep/paint to use on steel (e.g. elevator attach brackets)
>> I asked Santa for a
> >beadblaster but I don't think he's gonna come thru for me. So if
> >there's something at the auto parts store that will work if I promise
> >never to tie down my bird within 100 miles of the ocean, please name
> >that can.
> I'm curious about this too, since I've found it virtually impossible to
> avoid flash-rusting after cleaning up the 4130 steel. There are about half
> a dozen postings in the archives which don't completely answer the question.
> The local auto paint store suggested something called "Marhyde
> Primer-Sealer" (not the same stuff sold by Avery?), which as I understand
> it is supposed to convert iron and ferrous oxide (rust) into black ferric
> oxide, which can be painted. Has anyone used this before?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Dixon <sdixon(at)laker.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 and general questions |
Tim,
I bought the RV-6 preview plans. When I first decided on building an RV,
I was going to build a 6A, but when it came time to order I got the 8.
Since the preview plans are just that, for PREview, I feel the RV-6
preview plans will give you enough information to know what you are in
for. The construction techniques ars very similar for the -4, -6, and
the 8.
I hope this helps.
Steve Dixon
Ft. Lauderdale, FL
RV-8 HS (just starting)
Tim Bronson wrote:
>
> Ladies and Gentlemen:
>
> I am seriously considering building an RV-8. This will be my first homebuilt.
> I asked Van's about preview plans for the -8 and was told they did not expect
to
> have them before early 1998. For those of you who are building 8's, what did
> you do? Did you buy preview plans for the -4? Or -6? None of the above? Any
> suggestions?
>
> I'm new to the RV-list. I just got back from a two day trip and had 71 (!)
> messages waiting. Is the list always this active? If so, I'm afraid I may have
> to unsubscribe until time to build gets closer.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Tim Bronson - Pittsburgh, PA.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Hitchings" <wbroup(at)lantic.co.za> |
Has anybody installed a rudder trim (as opposed to a trim tab) on either an
RV-4 or 6? . (Of course, the first question ought to be whether a rudder
trim is required.)
Thanks
Brian Hitchings
RV-6A, Rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Listers,
Herman's suggestion is a good solution to the carb heat problem. The
FAR's (Part 43???) state that you should be able to get a 20*C rise in
carb air inlet temps when carb heat is applied. (They don't say under
what condtions...) I have installed this type of muff to resolve carb
icing problems that occured while using Van's recommended warmed lower
cowl air source carb heat.
I've also installed a temp probe into the airbox on my -6A to measure
the temp rise when carb heat is applied. (Extra channel on an E.I
Ultimate Scanner) With an outside air temp of 31*F, I see carb inlet
temps of 95*F while in the cruise configuration and in IFR conditions.
(Yes, I was getting light Rime ice for about 30 seconds in the descent
through the clouds, but it melted fast as temps at lower altitudes were
higher.) My testing of Van's approach in marginal IFR conditions (OVER A
VISABLE AIRPORT) resulted in severe carb ice problems, including almost
total power loss.
So if you plan on IFR flying, be sure to re-look at the carb heat
solution carefully. Confirm your design with temp measurements before you
venture into the white puffy stuff.......
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
*** Snip ***
> The solution is to use a small heat muff around the crossover
> pipe that goes across the front of the sump and route a short
> SCAT tube to the air box inlet. I gave this builder a small
> heat muff that I had bought from ACS or Wicks. It is about
> 4 inches long and just wraps around the exh stack and is
> open on each end. It has a 2 inch fitting to attach the
> SCAT tube. You attach the muff to the pipe with two SS hose
> clamps. I think Tony's books/articles shows the same device.
>
> You can then just block off the other port on the back of the
> normal heat muff.
> Herman (RV4)
>
>> I have just completed my carb air box for RV-6, O-360-A1A, C/S
>> and I'm wondering how to get warm air from the heat muff to the
>> box. A 2" flange dosen't look like a possibility and I don't see
>much
>> in the way of drawings showing this. Given the number of completed
>> RV-6's I'm hoping someone has a simple solution.
>>
>>
>> Bob Lovering Cowling and fiberglass fun.
>> rv6 air(at)aol.com
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Now, how about a heated static port? |
>If you have one of those hand held GPS units along you can get back up
>information on altitude and speed while you look for a place to open
>the pitot/static system to cockpit ambient conditions. :-)
This makes too much sense.
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q Project:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker
(last updated 12/4/96)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Now, how about a heated static port? |
> However, it sounds to me like a heated static port is almost as important.
> So..... what's up with that? I've seen heated pitot tubes advertised
that
> have a heated static port built in to them. Comments on those?
>
> In general, does anyone have a heated static port on their plane?
Disclaimer: These are MY personal opinions.
I think that a heated pitot is only necessary if you & your airplane are IFR
capable and you plan to use it as such. No clouds, no ice. (we're talking
airframe,not carb)
Some people DO use RV's for IFR flight, and in that case a heated pitot is a
must, not so you can blast around in ice, but to give you a few extra moments
to get out.
I don't believe static heat is necessary, as all IFR certified aircraft have
2 static ports (as does Van's static kit). Icing a static port is pretty
rare and if you managed to ice both of them up it would be the least of your
worries as the airfarme would have far too much ice on it to fly anyway.
Personally, I plan to use de-ice boots and a hot prop...
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: elevator trim wheel |
> Being a 172 driver, I sure do like the elevator trim being on a wheel
instead
> of on a vernier control knob. Has anyone tried this in their RV? Does
> anyone
> know where you can get such a wheel? If it is small emough. it seems like
it
> might fit.
I'm not sure where you would put it if could find one, and you probably
wouldn't like it anyway because an RV in cruise uses amazingly small trim
inputs (as in just a few degrees on the vernier) and I don't think you could
trim a wheel that accurately. However, it really isn't necessary. The
vernier knob is very intuitive once you use it a few times.
I've flown airplanes equipped with a lot of different trim set ups; wheels,
levers, push-pull cables, crank handles that are on the top of the cabin and
oriented the wrong way (hated that one) and most are fairly easy to use after
a little practice. I love the manual trim on my RV.
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dann_Parks(at)KTEH.pbs.org (Dann Parks) |
| Subject: | Gross weight and baggage |
Has anyone heard more about the mention in the RVator about increasing the GW
of the RV6. I'd like to be able to carry two foldup bikes (30# each) and 20#
of clothes and stuff. The clothes could go in a duffle under our legs and I
would even be willing to leave a bike in there for ballast. I have not made
an engine/prop decision, but the baggage capability is very important to
enjoying trips. The wife and I total 320# so it's not as much a weight issue
as a balance issue with a O-320/wood prop -- although I would like to use the
0-360/cs.
What have you folks been carrying in the real world? I hear a few stories
about over grossing and "attention-getting" landings at the end of a trip
when tanks are empty. What are your equipment and setup recommendations for
maximum baggage carrying?
Thanks all,
Dann Parks
Sunnyvale, CA
6A empenage under construction
dann_parks(at)kteh.pbs.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
Brian, My personal experience has been that a fixed tab is simple and works
well. My ball is always in the center in cruise, and it isnt much of a work
load to hold slight rudder durring climb. However I do fly with a fixed pitch
prop and a constant speed may yeild different results. Its always important
to build the airplane in your own image, but remember the KISS theory ( Keep
it simple) . You can spend a lifetime redesigning the airplane, but its a
great flying airplane as is. Ryan RV-4 131RB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BDStobbe <70743.2727(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | engine selection |
Fellow builders and flyers,
I am getting close to having to make the decision on what to power my RV with.
After taking into consideration the available options and my personal mission
for the airplane, I have finally decided on the 0-320, well maybe the 0-360, no
the 0-320 is definitely the one, well maybe the 0-360, 0-320!? Aarrgh... this
is ridiculous.
My question is this; has anyone went one way or the other and wished they had
done otherwise, and how did you arrive at your original selection in the first
place? Since I am leaning towards the 0-320 with a fixed-pitch prop, I would
really like to hear from anyone with this configuration who would care to
comment.
Although I know this can be a very personal decision based on many variables,
I'm hoping to glean some additional insight from the rest of you who might bring
up points I haven't thought of before I take the plunge.
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6 N508RV res
fuselage outadajig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gil(at)bala.HAC.COM (Gil Alexander) |
>Listers,
> Herman's suggestion is a good solution to the carb heat problem. The
>FAR's (Part 43???) state that you should be able to get a 20*C rise in
>carb air inlet temps when carb heat is applied. (They don't say under
>what condtions...) I have installed this type of muff to resolve carb
>icing problems that occured while using Van's recommended warmed lower
>cowl air source carb heat.
> I've also installed a temp probe into the airbox on my -6A to measure
>the temp rise when carb heat is applied. (Extra channel on an E.I
>Ultimate Scanner) With an outside air temp of 31*F, I see carb inlet
>temps of 95*F while in the cruise configuration and in IFR conditions.
*** snip ***
>
>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
>wstucklen1(at)juno.com
>
*** snip ***
> writes:
>*** Snip ***
>> The solution is to use a small heat muff around the crossover
>> pipe that goes across the front of the sump and route a short
>> SCAT tube to the air box inlet. I gave this builder a small
>> heat muff that I had bought from ACS or Wicks. It is about
>> 4 inches long and just wraps around the exh stack and is
>> open on each end. It has a 2 inch fitting to attach the
>> SCAT tube. You attach the muff to the pipe with two SS hose
>> clamps. I think Tony's books/articles shows the same device.
Listers,
.... the source for the short X-over heat muffs is
RICK ROBBINS 303-932-0561 HEAT MUFFS (from the RV-list phone # posting)
... well made stuff at a reasonable price (probably less than
Aircraft $pruce ...:^)
The final installation looks neater and more efficient (less heat
loss from the ducting) since the duct from the muff to the carb. heat flap
on the air box is now only about 3 inches.
... hope this helps ... Gil (I bought one) Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
gila(at)flash.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
> When you run multiple tubes from a single
> supply (Wheelen) the power is supposed to divide between
> all the tubes plugged in which says that you might expect
> to get as much as 22 joules per tube in a two-light system;
> 13 joules per tube in a three-light.
http://www.aeroelectric.com
The other arrangement is to have your strobes alternate thus sending 44
joules per flash. I am opting for the Whelan because of this difference.
Ross Mickey
rmickey@ix,netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | RV list: F614 riveting on F-609 |
I am fitting the F-614 on my 6-A. Page 34 of the plans show a spacer
underneath F-614/on top of F-610 bulkhead. There is no mention of a
similar spacer under
F-614/on top of F-609 bulkhead. The "TOP VIEW" on page 34 of the plans
show a rivet line across F-609. I am assuming I need to put a spacer
between
F-614 and F-609. Am I missing anything here?
Ross Mickey
rmickey@ix,netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
I got the same 20 minute layer of rust when I painted my control arms. I
then used some stuff I got at the auto paint dealer called "Rust Mort". It's
a conversion coating, kind of leaves a gunmetal blue sheen. You lightly coat
the metal and let it dry 24 hrs. Then hit it with the Marhyde (self etching
epoxy primer) and you should be in good shape. I live within 1 mile of the
coast and in over a year I have no rust. Point is, use a steel conversion
coating.
Eric Henson
Dana Point, CA
ehenson(at)cldwell.attmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Alan Wrote:<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>The local auto paint store suggested something called "Marhyde
Primer-Sealer" (not the same stuff sold by Avery?), which as I understand
it is supposed to convert iron and ferrous oxide (rust) into black ferric
oxide, which can be painted. Has anyone used this before?<<
Alan Carroll
RV-8 #80177 (Empenage)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vincent S. Himsl" <himsl(at)mail.wsu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 and general questions |
Hello Mr. Bronson,
Thanks for asking about RV8 as I too am thinking of building it and
wondering whether to wait, start anyway, or choose a different model (RV4).
My major concern is that as a new builder, I don't want to 'Beta' test Van's
design/kit. The experienced builders can do that!
As for the number of entries in the RV-list, their are a couple of steps you
can take to manage the number of responses. First, obtain an email software
package like "EUDORA" that allows one to 'filter' messages. Route(filter)
all RV messages to a special 'mailbox' so that you can read at leisure and
not be buried by everything. If the filtering capabilities of your email
package are up to it, you can have the 'filter' search for specific key
words and have the RV information further sorted by "painting", "RV(number",
etc. I have been on the list for about two days and am learning alot REAL fast.
It would be unfortunate for you to disconnect as you are asking the kind of
question I would like to have Answered.
Sincerely,
Vince Himsl
Moscow, ID
Thank You!
Vincent S. Himsl
Computer Maintenance Technician III
Biological Systems Engineering
Washington State University
Pullman, Washington 99164-6120
Tel: 509 335 6872
Fax: 509 335 2722
eml: himsl(at)mail.wsu.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
> I have just completed my carb air box for RV-6, O-360-A1A, C/S
> and I'm wondering how to get warm air from the heat muff to the
> box. A 2" flange dosen't look like a possibility and I don't see much
> in the way of drawings showing this. Given the number of completed
> RV-6's I'm hoping someone has a simple solution.
>
I ran a seperate heat muff off of the front cross pipe. It's a small muff
made just for this purpose. A 2" flange mounts on the front top of the
airbox where the alternate air door is located. Both of these are available
from Rick Robbins.
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <DougR(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: engine selection |
----------
> From: BDStobbe <CompuServe.COM!70743.2727(at)matronics.com>
> To: Fellow builders
> Subject: RV-List: engine selection
> Date: Wednesday, December 18, 1996 11:59 AM
>
> Fellow builders and flyers,
>
> I am getting close to having to make the decision on what to power my RV
with.
> After taking into consideration the available options and my personal
mission
> for the airplane, I have finally decided on the 0-320, well maybe the
0-360, no
> the 0-320 is definitely the one, well maybe the 0-360, 0-320!? Aarrgh...
this
> is ridiculous.
>
"There is no replacement for displacement."
"Have you ever flown an overpowered airplane?"
"Have you ever flown an airplane that was too fast?"
"You can always pull the power back and burn less gas?"
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
Dougr(at)netins.net
http://www.netconx.com/petroblend/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Blackman" <jeffreyb(at)spiritone.com> |
> So if you plan on IFR flying, be sure to re-look at the carb heat
> solution carefully. Confirm your design with temp measurements before you
> venture into the white puffy stuff.......
>
Since I have been lurking around in the RV-List and dreaming about building
an RV, this last thread brought up a question I had.
Can't a guy (or gal) buy a fuel injected model of the 160hp Lycoming and
wouldn't that eliminate any 'carb' icing problems? I don't know much about
the Lycomings except they cost a bunch of cash..........would a fuel
injected model cost alot more
or ????? I just figured if the pilot planned on flying in MIFR or IFR
that Fuel injection would be the way to go..........hope this hasn't been
discussed already:-)
Jeff Blackman
Future RV-Builder (Wife has to finish Physical Ther. school)
________________________________________________________________________________
After they fix it they would put it on your bill
Don Mack
donmack@super-highway.net
> < is to simply use Duck Tape to tape(snip)
>
> Might cause dangerous quacks to develop.
>
>
> Peter Bennett
> Sydney Australia
> RV6 working inside fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert R. Moore" <bobmoore(at)wwd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Now, how about a heated static port? |
aol.com!EBundy2620(at)matronics.com wrote:
> I don't believe static heat is necessary, as all IFR certified aircraft have
> 2 static ports (as does Van's static kit). Icing a static port is pretty
> rare and if you managed to ice both of them up it would be the least of your
> worries as the airfarme would have far too much ice on it to fly anyway.
As, hopefully all of the rest of you know, this is NOT true. The IFR
Cessna
that I instruct in has only one external static port plus an alternate
static source switch for a cockpit source just in case the one external
port
becomes clogged.
Bob Moore
ATP CFII
________________________________________________________________________________
<< Has anybody installed a rudder trim (as opposed to a trim tab) on either
an
RV-4 or 6? . (Of course, the first question ought to be whether a rudder
trim is required.)
Thanks
Brian Hitchings
RV-6A, Rudder
>>
Hello All,
I have a trim tab on my RV-3. It was used when I had the Warnke wood prop on
the LOM engine. The fixed tab is all that is required. Rudder force is
required for take off and initial climb, naturally. However, cruise climb
through cruise to cruise power on descent (watch Vne) requires very little
rudder force.
I have had to set the trim tab so there is no offset when I installed the
Ivoprop. I still use rudder force on take off and initail climb, but none is
required otherwise.
Besides, since I normally only go to 9,500, or 10,500, for cruise, there
isn't that much time to worry about rudder trim.
Rocky and I flew from Corona Airport (540' field elevation) to Big Bear
Airport (6,700' field elevation) cruising at 11,500' for about 1/3 of the 20
minute flight to get there. (It helped to get standing wave lift for a boost
from 6,000' to 8,000' in one minute.)
JIm Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Chandler" <mauser(at)Claris.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator trim wheel |
I was thinking, if your'e really addicted to the idea of a wheel to adjust
your trim, and you want an easy electric trim, then an idea that was discussed
on this list a long while back could be adapted. (I think we were talking
about the electric flaps at the time.)
Basically, use the wheel as a giant knob on a potentiometer, and use it and
the potentiometer on the trim motor as voltage dividers. A circuit to run the
trim one way or another based on the voltage mismatch, and voila! A closed
circuit servo. (Naturally there are fail safe and other circuit
considerations that need not be gone into here).
I think the earlier idea was for a slider pot to control the flap position.
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: RV list: F614 riveting on F-609 |
> I am fitting the F-614 on my 6-A. Page 34 of the plans show a spacer
> underneath F-614/on top of F-610 bulkhead. There is no mention of a
> similar spacer under
> F-614/on top of F-609 bulkhead. The "TOP VIEW" on page 34 of the plans
> show a rivet line across F-609. I am assuming I need to put a spacer
> between
> F-614 and F-609. Am I missing anything here?
Look carefully at section A-A' and D-D'. F-614 sits right on the
longerons, there are no spacers between F-614 and F-610. There is a
spacer (actually 2 short spacers, one on each side) between F-614 and
the fwd HS spar angle, which you don't need to worry about until you
fit the HS. There is another spacer that goes between F-614 and the
angle that is riveted to the web of F-610 (this angle is called out as
1x1x1/8 6061-T6 in both section A-A' and D-D'). This spacer is cut to
fit _between_ the longerons.
I just fitted the tail on my fuselage so it's still pretty fresh --
you can email me privately if you need more clarification.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | engine selection |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBED06.2C5B7AC0
Bruce,=20
I am not there yet but I'm going to base my decision on the fact that I =
have never heard of anyone replacing their O-360 CS with an O-320 Wood =
, However I have heard of a number of instances of the opposite. I feel =
that if you can afford it, go with the O-360 CS. There was an article =
in Kitplanes (???) about a guy who did the switch and found that in the =
long run it was cheaper to operate the=20
O-360 if you do a lot of cross countries. Also, I feel that I will get a =
better return when I sell the plane. (To build a four place RV-10 of =
course) <--------HOW RUMORS GET STARTED !!!!!!!!!!!! Al =
prober(at)iwaynet.net N162NV (res)
----------
From: BDStobbe[SMTP:CompuServe.COM!70743.2727(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 1996 12:59 PM
Subject: RV-List: engine selection
Fellow builders and flyers,
I am getting close to having to make the decision on what to power my RV =
with.
After taking into consideration the available options and my personal =
mission
for the airplane, I have finally decided on the 0-320, well maybe the =
0-360, no
the 0-320 is definitely the one, well maybe the 0-360, 0-320!? Aarrgh... =
this
is ridiculous.
My question is this; has anyone went one way or the other and wished =
they had
done otherwise, and how did you arrive at your original selection in the =
first
place? Since I am leaning towards the 0-320 with a fixed-pitch prop, I =
would
really like to hear from anyone with this configuration who would care =
to
comment.
Although I know this can be a very personal decision based on many =
variables,
I'm hoping to glean some additional insight from the rest of you who =
might bring
up points I haven't thought of before I take the plunge.
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6 N508RV res
fuselage outadajig
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBED06.2C5B7AC0
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BBED06.2C5B7AC0--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Painting Steel |
Someone said:
[snip!]
> Point is, use a steel conversion coating.
I went to my local PPG dealer asking for a steel conversion coating
and they sold me some PPG DX520SG. It says it's a conversion coating,
and it turns the outside of the metal a gray crystalline color.
Problem is, it's a "dip or brush-on, rinse off (with water)" type of
process, and I've found that if I don't dry it off right away I will
get some surface "flash rust" that someone else mentioned.
I don't get it. If it's a conversion coating, why does it rust so
easily? I suppose if I dry it really fast this won't happen, but I
can't help but wonder about rust that might be just beginning to form
before you even get a chance to dry it off. I can always clean off
any rust later with a scotch-brite pad but what good is the conversion
coating if you have to go back and clean it off anyhow?
I suppose I could go buy one of the other products that doesn't
involve rinsing with water, but I sure hate to go buy something to do
what this stuff is _supposed_ to do.
Comments?
( Jeez, there I go contributing to a "primer" thread again... :-} )
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Now, how about a heated static port? |
>
>Text item:
>
>>However, it sounds to me like a heated static port is almost as important.
>
>Not exactly. The FARs require a heated pitot for IFR, but they allow you to
>use an alternate static source as an alternative to a heated static port.
Really? I'm not about to start the heated/ non-heated pitot debate for IFR
again, but I'd love to see you reference the FAR for the above statement.
Part 135 requires a heated pitot for IFR, but you're not about to do that in
your experimental RV.
Scott Gesele N506RV
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
> When you run multiple tubes from a single
> supply (Wheelen) the power is supposed to divide between
> all the tubes plugged in which says that you might expect
> to get as much as 22 joules per tube in a two-light system;
> 13 joules per tube in a three-light.
>>The other arrangement is to have your strobes alternate thus sending 44
>>joules per flash. I am opting for the Whelan because of this difference.
The problem I have with this is that 10 joules per tube is PLENTY
and running any more simply causes the tube to go bad faster.
The eye is a very logarithmic sensing device and a 4x increase
in intensity simply doesn't equate to much more visability. I
wouldn't run any more per tube per flash than was absolutely
necessary given the cost of replacing the critters. . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | ElectroAir Electronic Ignition |
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
> Well, my Jeff Rose ElectroAire ignition arrived this week. The wife paid the
> UPS man his $800.00 COD for this little package and figured I must have
> ordered something from the Franklin Mint. First inspection shows a
> decent-enough looking setup but it appears to already have been installed
> somewhere... the base of the unit shows washer and bolt thread indentations.
> I will have to ask Jeff about that. Perhaps he bench-tests each unit on the
> firewall of his own aircraft. This man builds plastic airplanes and
> Kitfoxes, so it might pay to be careful.
>
Had occasion to speak with Jeff on other matters last week and asked him
about this . . . he DOES have a test fixture that will mark the hardware
giving it the appearance of having been installed and removed . . . I think
he had already followed up on this original concern but I thought I would
pass along my findings to the list . . .
Happy holidays!
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cliffd(at)mailhost.accesscom.net (Cliff Dominey) |
| Subject: | AD for Lycomings |
This is the summary paragraph to an Airworthiness Directive I found while
going through the Federal Register of Dec 2. After learning that all
Lycomings owners do not necessarily get these notices, I am posting this
portion of it. Anyone who would like the whole 16K notice (as I have it
from scanning the photocopied text - still working on the spelling) let me
know. The larger issue - why not everybody hears about these things - is
left begging for the moment.
"SUMMARY: This document publishes in the Federal Register an amendment
adopting Airworthiness Directive (AD) 96-23-03 that was sent previously to
all known U.S. owners and operators of Textron Lycoming IO-320, LIO-320,
AEIO-320, IO-360, HIO-360, AEIO-360, HIO-360, TO-360, IO-540, 0-540-L,
LIO-540, and AEIO-540 series reciprocating engines by individual letters.
This AD requires a maintenance records check to determine if suspect high
pressure fuel pumps are installed, and inspection to determine if the high
pressure fuel pump has one of the suspect date codes. If the high pressure
fuel pump has a suspect date code, this AD requires disassembly and
inspection of the high pressure fuel pump, and, if necessary, removal from
service and replacement with a serviceable part. In addition, this AD
requires reporting findings of unserviceable high pressure fuel pumps. This
amendment is prompted by reports of inflight failures of high pressure fuel
pumps. The actions specified by this AD are intended to prevent an inflight
engine failure due to fuel starvation, which could result in a forced
landing. DATES: Effective December 17, 1996, to all persons except those
persons to whom it was made immediately effective by priority letter AD
96-23-03, issued on October 28, 1996, which contained the requirements of
this amendment. "
More specific information is in the Supplementary Information paragraph:
"On October 28, 1996o the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) issued
priority letter airworthiness directive (AD) 96-23-03, applicable to
Textron Lycoming IO-320, LIO-320, AEIO-320,10-360, LIO-360, AEIO-360,
HIO-360, TO-360, IO-540,O-540-L, LIO-540, and AEI-540 series reciprocating
engines, which requires within 5 hours time in service (TIS) after the
effective date of the priority letter AD, a maintenance records check to
determine if suspect high pressure fuel pumps are installed, and if the
records check indicates a suspect high pressure fuel pump may be installed,
inspection, which can be performed by the owner/operator holding at least a
private pilot's certificate , to determine if the high pressure fuel pump
has one of the suspect date codes. If the high pressure fuel pump has one
of the suspect date codes, the priority letter AD requires the disassembly
and inspection of the high pressure fuel pump, and, if necessary, removal
from service and replacement with a serviceable part. In addition, the
priority letter AD requires reporting findings of unserviceable high
pressure fuel pumps. That action was prompted by reports of inflight
failures of high pressure fuel pumps. Investigations into those incidents
revealed that the fuel pump gasket, Part Number (P/N) 5621005, became
lodged in the pump outlet port after separating from the pump diaphragm
assembly on high pressure fuel pumps, P/N LW-15473. Further investigation
revealed that the high pressure fuel pumps developed defects during
manufacturing. The engines involved in those incidents had high pressure
fuel pumps with manufacturing date codes: 154739506, 154739507, or
154739510. The first five digits of the manufacturing date codes refer to
the Textron Lycoming P/N and the last four digits refer to the year and
month of pump manufacture. This condition, if not corrected, could result
in an inflight engine failure due to fuel starvation, which could result in
a forced landing. The FAA has reviewed and approved the technical
contents of Textron Lycoming Service Bulletin (SB) No. 525A, dated October
7,1996, that describes procedures for identifying the manufacturing date
code. This SB also includes procedures for Inspection of internal parts of
high pressure fuel pumps, replacement of specific parts or the complete
high pressure fuel pump, if necessary, and reassembly of the high pressure
fuel pump."
My apologies for such a lengthy post, but it seemed worthwhile. If people
out there are not getting those Textron Service Bulletins, perhaps this is
food for thought.
Cliff Dominey
RV (4,8 ?) wannabe
cliffd(at)mailhost.accesscom.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
| Subject: | engine selection |
There was an article in Kitplanes (???) about a guy who did the switch and
found that in the long run it was cheaper to operate the O-360 if you do a
lot of cross countries...
Go back and re-read the article, reading "between the lines" just a little.
It sounded to me like that guy really wanted a 360/cs setup, so he made the
decision and then rationalized after the fact.
And that is the bottom line isnt it? What do you want and what can you
realistically afford? If I have the $ when the time comes, I will go the max
performance route. Unfortunately, at this point I dont even really see how I
will be able to afford a runout O-320, but hopefully time will provide an
answer.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
>I am interested in any of you cold weather souls who have fitted any
>kind of winter baffling to your RV 6.
>
>Did you fit baffles to the air inlets, reduce cowl air exit size, or any
>other method? Any information would be appreciated as to what methods
>used and success achieved?
>
>Thanks
>Graham Armour
>RV 6 C-FVMH (Flying)
>Ottawa, ON Canada
>
Gary
I live not to far from you, give me a call at 519-631-1369 re the winter
kits. I installed a cowl flap on my rv-4 and a oil cooler door. It works
well and is simple to build. The cowl flap has not worked as well on a
friends rv6 though.
Tom Martin
RV-4
fairlea(at)execulink.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MiDiBu <midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 and general questions |
>Ladies and Gentlemen:
>
>I am seriously considering building an RV-8. This will be my first homebuilt.
>I asked Van's about preview plans for the -8 and was told they did not
expect to
>have them before early 1998. For those of you who are building 8's, what did
>you do? Did you buy preview plans for the -4? Or -6? None of the above? Any
>suggestions?
>
>I'm new to the RV-list. I just got back from a two day trip and had 71 (!)
>messages waiting. Is the list always this active? If so, I'm afraid I may
have
>to unsubscribe until time to build gets closer.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Tim Bronson - Pittsburgh, PA.
>
>
Dear Tim,
Unsubscribe NOW! Otherwise, you'll be addicted like the rest of us.
Preview plans, shmeview plans!
Best wishes,
Mike Weller RV 80187 (under construction)
midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com (preferred) or mike.weller(at)msfc.nasa.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)Op.Net> |
| Subject: | Is Bill Benedict breaking Parole? |
What? Two letters from Bill Benedict in 2 days. Who's minding the store?
It's good to see Van's monitoring the list, and replying where needed.
An Admirer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Lewis <lewy(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Cheap O-320 E2D Dynafocal |
Starduster Biplane
STARDUSTER 1 SA-100 , O-320E2D,124.7 TTSMOH, 124.7 TTAF, 1120.7 TTSN on engine,
the
engine is equipped with a B&C co. Light weight starter and a keystart ignition
with a
Gel Cell battery for electrics, The engine is equipped with Bendix mags and SKYTRONICS
A30-IAR II right-angle ignition harness. It also has a mechanical fuel pump. The
propeller is a McCauley Metal -Pitch 53"Dia.. 75",with nice big spinner.
The engine is NOT inverted oil and fuel.
The fuel capacity is 18 US gallons. Annual October 1996.
Day VFR+ G-meter, Antenna and coax for radio. It is equipped with
6.00 X 6 tires and Cleveland wheels and brake plus Scott master heel
brake cylinders. MF-7 Wheel pants. It has a full swivel and steerable Maul tailwheel.
The airframe is covered in cotton fabric and dope (believed to be cotton and Randolf)
in Red and Black. Entrance to the cockpit is accommodated by either right wing
or left
wing.This aircraft is very docile and easy to land with no bad habits. Runway in
full
view right to flair.
Reason for selling....None of my passengers know how to wing walk.
Always Hangared
$13,500. FIRM. Complete fly home. (no longer available option)
(will assist reassembly for $500.)
$8,500. Less Airframe (engine,propeller and attachments)
Will sell now for $13,000. as it has been brought home to avoid the rediculous
$155. a
month hangar rent (door won't even open without the aid of a pick-up truck) and
that
means the wings where removed to fit in the garage.
The reason I'm posting here in the RV-List is that some builder may be interested
in the
engine. All ADS known have been complied with up to the oil impeller thingie.(but
not
including).
Also open to trade for Tailwind, Cougar or equivalent
VOICE 916-922-3197 eves.
--
Just an opinion mindya
Starduster SA-100 4/sale
lewy(at)pacbell.net
__________|__________
\ \_0_/ /
__\___(_+_)___/__
|/ \|
|...........................|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting Steel |
James K. Hurd wrote:
>
> What is best prep/paint to use on steel (e.g. elevator attach brackets)
> parts?
Don't know if it's "best", but I use Mar-hyde brand Single Stage Self
Etching Primer.
The label says it adheres to steel, aluminum, stainless steel. Comes in a
19 oz aerosol can at the auto body paint store. Very convenient for small
parts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: engine selection |
BDStobbe wrote:
>
> I am getting close to having to make the decision on what to power my RV with.
> I have finally decided on the 0-320, well maybe the 0-360, no
> the 0-320 is definitely the one, well maybe the 0-360, 0-320!? Aarrgh... this
> is ridiculous.
>
> My question is this; has anyone went one way or the other and wished they had
> done otherwise, and how did you arrive at your original selection in the first
place?
Like Tim "The Tool Man" Taylor says, you can never have too much power.
Have you ever heard anyone say "I wish my airplane had less power"?
The weight penalty of the extra 20 hp is 10 lbs. I'm going O-360 in my
RV-4.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
>Has anybody installed a rudder trim (as opposed to a trim tab) on either an
>RV-4 or 6? . (Of course, the first question ought to be whether a rudder
>trim is required.)
>
>Thanks
>
>Brian Hitchings
>RV-6A, Rudder
>
Brian, Don Wentz has a rudder trim. Claims it added a month to the
project. Now that he is flying, I think he would tell you that it is not
that difficult to keep your foot on the right pedal during climb until you
accelerate to 150 mph, then the yaw is in trim and the rudder is
unnecessary. The plane tends to be a rudder-less aircraft and is in trim
between 150 and 200 mph. You seldom operate out of this range. Even when
in the pattern, my feet are on the floor until I turn final and the ball is
where it belongs, right in the middle. Save your money for a nicer GPS.
Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV
Over 1000 RV hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: engine selection reply! |
>
>> I am getting close to having to make the decision on what to power my RV
>with.
>> After taking into consideration the available options and my personal
>mission
>> for the airplane, I have finally decided on the 0-320, well maybe the
>0-360, no
>> the 0-320 is definitely the one, well maybe the 0-360, 0-320!? Aarrgh...
>this
>> is ridiculous.
>>
>"There is no replacement for displacement."
>"Have you ever flown an overpowered airplane?"
>"Have you ever flown an airplane that was too fast?"
>"You can always pull the power back and burn less gas?"
The right engine is the one that comes along at the right price! Period! If
you ask Van, he will tell you the O-320 is the best engine, and after
working for him I respect his opinion, although I have a different opinion.
The O-320 is the smoothest engine (4 banger) that you can lean out. The
tanks on the RV's are just about right with enough range (@8 gal/hour)that
the flight does not get uncomfortable. The O-360 does not have the best
carburetion because all 4 cylinders do not peak out at the same time when
leaning. Fuel injection should solve that problem! The O-360 will make the
flight legs short if you have a heavy throttle hand, because at 10 gal/hour
those tanks do not last long. However, if you slow down and fly an O-360
next to an O-320 the bigger engine can and will use less fuel than the -320.
Van is currently planning on an O-320 for the next RV-8. This is a choice,
not dictated by monetary reasoning.
However, sign me out as an RV-4 pilot, re-engining with a 360 and the
Airflow Fuel Injection system. I have not flown yet with the new engine,
so it is speculation that I will like it more. Bill
>
>Tailwinds,
>Doug Rozendaal
>Dougr(at)netins.net
>http://www.netconx.com/petroblend/dougr
>
>
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV
Over 1000 RV hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 and general questions |
>
>I am seriously considering building an RV-8. This will be my first homebuilt.
>I asked Van's about preview plans for the -8 and was told they did not
expect to
>have them before early 1998. For those of you who are building 8's, what did
>you do? Did you buy preview plans for the -4? Or -6? None of the above? Any
>suggestions?
>
Tim, The preview plans were created for those people who are not sure if
they want to build a particular aircraft. Without laying out $200 for the
plans, you can preview them for about $50. The previews are just a
complete set of plans photographically reduced down to 11x17 inches and a
complete assembly manual. Once the complete plane is documented with
finished drawings, the previews will be available. In the meantime, we
send each subkit with the plans for that portion of the kit. The only thing
the -8 builders are missing is the ability to look ahead and see how parts
are going to interface with each other. The previews are a great value
because you can carry them with you to work and show all your friends your
project (during luch break, of course) without this big wad of paper called
plans. Good value, but not essential since we make sure you get all the
information with the tail kit. Bill
>
>
>
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV
Over 1000 RV hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin lane <kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com> |
. The
> FAR's (Part 43???) state that you should be able to get a 20*C rise in
> carb air inlet temps when carb heat is applied. (They don't say under
> what condtions...)
> I've also installed a temp probe into the airbox on my -6A to measure
> the temp rise when carb heat is applied. (Extra channel on an E.I
> Ultimate Scanner) With an outside air temp of 31*F, I see carb inlet
> temps of 95*F while in the cruise configuration and in IFR conditions.
>Benedict told me, and this seerms to back it up, that the heated air
typically runs 50 degrees warmer and can be used as a source, omitting
the heat muff and tubing. Did I hear him correctly, do others agree?
kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carrabell(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Riveting Aileron Skins |
>Could you please be more specific about how you did this and what was the
>difficulty? I'm about at the step where I need to rivet both of mine and
>for the life of me I can't seem to figure out how I'm going to get a bar
>square to the shop side without hitting the spar web. I'd like to hear
>about what you found difficult so I can try to work around it.
>
>If anyone has a novel suggestion or some gotchas about riveting the top of
>the aileron to the spar, please reply to me (mikeang(at)microsoft.com). If I
>get some interesting replies I'll summarize and re-post to the list.
MY partner (Marty Cooke) and I just finished with ailerons.
We took a 4' X 6' pies of particle board that we often use for a work bench
top and fastened it with a 6 to 8 inch overlap vertically on one of the 4 X 4
of our wing jig. We left a 4 " gap at the botton. Take your aileron and
clamp the leading edge so that the bottom of the spar is on the surface of
the particle board and the bottom skin will clear the particle board so that
you can open it up to get inside. This will make the aileron very rigid and
you can easily (tongue in cheek) get to the rear of the spar with your
bucking bar. The most dangerous areas are where the riviet are near the
stiffners. Our solution was to machine a piece of steel about 1" X 1.5" X
1/2" at an angle comparable to the anle on the spar and use it to buck the
rivets.
Jerry Walker
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: engine selection |
Bruce, I had an 0-320b with a wood prop from Warnke. It was awesome. But
an RV-6 with an 0-360, constant speed prop is really really really awesome.
Just make sure that if you do go with a wood prop, get a good one. The
Pacesetter prop is good for firewood. I don't recommend that prop. My next
RV will have a constant speed mounted on an 0-360. Want to be able to go IFR
and I don't want a wood prop for IFR. Also, if you plan to fly out of a high
density airport, the constant speed is a real plus. Try to get a ride in as
many different powered RV's, check out the performance difference, and check
your pocketbook. Good Luck.
Dave, RV6dd(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
>
Can't a guy (or gal) buy a fuel injected model of the 160hp Lycoming and
>wouldn't that eliminate any 'carb' icing problems? I don't know much about
>the Lycomings except they cost a bunch of cash..........would a fuel
>injected model cost alot more
>Jeff Blackman
>Future RV-Builder (Wife has to finish Physical Ther. school)
Jeff: everything that you want to know about Lycomings including relatively
current pricing is available on Greg Travis engine poop page at
http://gtravis.ucs.indiana.edu/Engines/
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
I installed a rudder trim system in my RV-6A and it will provide 40 pounds of
force at the trailing edge of the rudder. There was a nice article with some
pictures and a schematic drawing of the system in the October 1996 issue of
my newsletter, Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing. The 1996 and 1995 back
issues are available for $5.00 per year. If you want them, send me an E-mail
with your address and they can cross your check in the snail mail. New
subscriptions for 1997 are also $5.00. Make checks payable to Van's Air
Force and send to the address below. Money back guarantee if you don't think
that they are worth it.
By the way, in the last RVator, Ken (the English major) said that I wrote
four pages about installing a canopy by yourself using only one paragraph.
That is not true. There were eight paragraphs in the article, which also
included seven annotated pictures. Granted, some of my paragraphs were a bit
long and they may have been more readable if I had made them shorter, but
then, I am not an English major. There was also one omission when he
discussed the article. When you cut the protective plastic back before
cutting, be sure to tape the edge down or you will still get plastic and
cutting disk dust under the protective plastic.
Jim Cone, Editor
Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing Newsletter
422 Savannah Ridge Drive
St. Charles, MO 63303
jamescone(at)aol.com
4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carrabell(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
I'm athe point of left wing construction where I need to mount my heated
pitot tube that I purchased from A'craft Spruce. If I mount it aft of the
main spar and outboard of the bell cranck access panel I believe that it
counld possible interfere with tie down. Does anyone have experience with
this proble. How about possible solutions from those that have mounted a
heated pitot tube
Jerry Walker
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
kevin lane wrote:
>
> . The
> > FAR's (Part 43???) state that you should be able to get a 20*C rise in
> > carb air inlet temps when carb heat is applied. (They don't say under
> > what condtions...)
> > I've also installed a temp probe into the airbox on my -6A to measure
> > the temp rise when carb heat is applied. (Extra channel on an E.I
> > Ultimate Scanner) With an outside air temp of 31*F, I see carb inlet
> > temps of 95*F while in the cruise configuration and in IFR conditions.
> >Benedict told me, and this seerms to back it up, that the heated air
> typically runs 50 degrees warmer and can be used as a source, omitting
> the heat muff and tubing. Did I hear him correctly, do others agree?
> kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com
After reading all of the post on carb heat I thought I would just add
that I have never had a carb heat muff on my RV-6 and have never had a
problem with carb ice in all sorts of Oregon weather, (never in the
clouds,). The crossover exhuast system that I have (Vetterman)is close
enough to the carb air filter alternate air door that it get enough
heat to do the job. This has worked well for me in over 800 hrs. of
flying.
THIS IS JUST MY EXPERIENCE AND IAM NOT RECOMMENDING THIS FOR ANYONE
ELSE though I know of several other RVs with the same setup.
Jerry Springer
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Matronics RV-List Homepage Additions! |
RVers,
As promised, I have added an official "RV Homepage Source" page
to the RV-List homepage. I have added everyone that sent in a homepage
addition request and a few others as well. If your page isn't listed, or
you know of a page (RV related of course), please send a message to:
support(at)matronics.com
with the URL of the page. I will add it as soon as possible.
The URL for the RV-List Homepage is:
http://www.matronics.com/rv-list
Check it out!
Matt Dralle
RV-List Admin.
Matronics
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Winter Kit (chatter) |
>> < is to simply use Duck Tape to tape(snip)
>>
>> Might cause dangerous quacks to develop.
>>
>> Peter Bennett
>> Sydney Australia
>> RV6 working inside fuselage
>After they fix it they would put it on your bill
>
>Don Mack
>donmack@super-highway.net
>>
Unless it is de-ducked from the bill first.
Jim Ayers
LesDrag(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Winter Kit (chatter) |
aol.com!LesDrag(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
> >> < is to simply use Duck Tape to tape(snip)
> >>
> >> Might cause dangerous quacks to develop.
> >>
> >> Peter Bennett
> >> Sydney Australia
> >> RV6 working inside fuselage
>
> >After they fix it they would put it on your bill
> >
> >Don Mack
> >donmack@super-highway.net
> >>
>
> Unless it is de-ducked from the bill first.
>
> Jim Ayers
> LesDrag(at)aol.com
I hope all this does not cause a quack up.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
aol.com!LesDrag(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
> >> < is to simply use Duck Tape to tape(snip)
> >>
> >> Might cause dangerous quacks to develop.
> >>
> >> Peter Bennett
> >> Sydney Australia
> >> RV6 working inside fuselage
>
> >After they fix it they would put it on your bill
> >
> > >Don Mack
> > >donmack@super-highway.net
>
> Unless it is de-ducked from the bill first.
>
> Jim Ayers
> LesDrag(at)aol.com
I hope all this does not cause a quack up.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Jerry,
I installed my heated pitot tube AFTER completion of the wing. I chose
to put it directly in front of the inspection access hole. This results
in it being in front of the spar and within a few inches of the tie down
ring. To date, I've had no problems with its position.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>I'm athe point of left wing construction where I need to mount my heated
>pitot tube that I purchased from A'craft Spruce. If I mount it aft of
the
>main spar and outboard of the bell cranck access panel I believe that it
>counld possible interfere with tie down. Does anyone have experience
with
>this proble. How about possible solutions from those that have mounted
a
>heated pitot tube
>
>Jerry Walker
>RV-6
>
________________________________________________________________________________
<32B8972E.4D7B(at)sprintmail.com>
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
writes:
> The FAR's (Part 43???) state that you should be able to get a 20*C
rise in
>> carb air inlet temps when carb heat is applied. (They don't say under
>> what condtions...)
>> I've also installed a temp probe into the airbox on my -6A to
measure
>> the temp rise when carb heat is applied. (Extra channel on an E.I
>> Ultimate Scanner) With an outside air temp of 31*F, I see carb inlet
>> temps of 95*F while in the cruise configuration and in IFR conditions.
>>Benedict told me, and this seerms to back it up, that the heated air
>typically runs 50 degrees warmer and can be used as a source, omitting
>the heat muff and tubing. Did I hear him correctly, do others agree?
>kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com
Kevin,
My experience with carb icing while using the lower cowl heated air
as the only source of alternate air, seems to indicate that this approach
may be fine for MOST VFR conditions, it is still a marginal solution IN
SOME VFR cases. It may still be possible to have carb ice problems when
the outside air temperature and humidity levels are just right. So how
often can these conditions exist in VFR condition? And would you be
flying when they exist? I don't know. I do know that, IMHO, a marginal
solution that can be easily remedied, is not the way I want my aircraft
designed. Use your best judgment for the way you fly.
>Since I have been lurking around in the RV-List and dreaming about
building
>an RV, this last thread brought up a question I had.
>Can't a guy (or gal) buy a fuel injected model of the 160hp Lycoming and
>wouldn't that eliminate any 'carb' icing problems? I don't know much
about
>the Lycomings except they cost a bunch of cash..........would a fuel
>injected model cost alot more
>or ????? I just figured if the pilot planned on flying in MIFR or
IFR
>that Fuel injection would be the way to go..........hope this hasn't
been
>discussed already:-)
>Jeff Blackman
Jeff,
All engines require an air inlet. Under severe icing situations this
inlet can ice over.A good design would indicate that an alternate air
source would still be required, but, in this case, possibly the lower
cowl heated air should be sufficient. I don't have a lot of experience
with injected engines. Maybe somebdy else could comment on this.....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Timothy J. Etherington" <tjetheri(at)cca.rockwell.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Panel Overlays with Lighting |
Gil,
I have been thinking about this and I would make one for him if he had a good
enough idea for the panel that it could be done by mail. It would be a plexi
panel with a painted or wood venier overlay with embedded light in the panel. I
would not charge much more than materials. If he is interested have him contact
me by e-mail or phone.
Tim Etherington
tjetheri@cedar-rapids.net
319-393-8526 (H)
319-295-5233 (W)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: engine selection |
Really? I've used Pacesetter props on both my RV-4's and would recommend
it highly to anyone using an O-320 (I personally have no experience with
wood props on O-360's).
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
On Thu, 19 Dec 1996 aol.com!RV6DD(at)matronics.com wrote:
******** snip
Pacesetter prop is good for firewood. I don't recommend that prop. My
******** snip
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <DougR(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Look out Lycoming! |
Look out Lycoming, Todays Wall Street Journal, http://www.wsj.com , has
and article that says that Toyota has received approval from the FAA to
manufacture and market a 360hp V-8 engine to the light airplane market.
Talk about a rocketship, how about a -8 with 360hp. Look out Lancair!
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
Dougr(at)netins.net
http://www.netconx.net/petroblend/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Gross weight and baggage |
> Has anyone heard more about the mention in the RVator about increasing the
GW
> of the RV6. I'd like to be able to carry two foldup bikes (30# each) and
20#
> of clothes and stuff. The clothes could go in a duffle under our legs and
I
> would even be willing to leave a bike in there for ballast. I have not
made
> an engine/prop decision, but the baggage capability is very important to
> enjoying trips. The wife and I total 320# so it's not as much a weight
issue
> as a balance issue with a O-320/wood prop -- although I would like to use
> the
> 0-360/cs.
The GW is whatever you want to make it. I opted for 1650#, which appears
reasonable to me. My wife and I total 300#, and full fuel and 100# in the
baggage area leave us with a CG about 1" fwd of the aft limit. In other
words, as long as we respect the GW limit and the baggage compartment limit,
I can't load the airplane outside the CG.
I used an 0-320 with a metal (FP) Sensenich prop. That prop weighs about 20+
pounds more than a wood one, and moved the CG forward considerably. I think
it's the ideal compromise.
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Caldwell <74504.1365(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Oil Cooler Location/Fuel Priming System |
On a RV6, where is the best place to put the Oil Cooler with a firewall using
C/S prop, cross over exhausts, cabin heat muff, and carb heat muff?
Also, is a fuel priming system necessary?. Some people have indicated it's not.
Would appreciate your help and suggestions. Thanks in advance.
Ron Caldwell
74504.1365(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | Riveting Aileron Skins |
Thanks for the replies to my aileron skin question. I received several
hints and tips, and like the "experimental" builder that I am tried
something totally different than most had suggested (the Orndorf tapes
showed the ailerons being built from a 1 piece skin. A little different
than mine.
What I did was put two tables next to each other with a 6 inch gap between
them. Then the aileron is put across the gap, resting on the two tables,
with a little overhang off each side. The overhang is so you can have some
clecos at the ends of the spars for alignment. Then I would lay on the
ground with the rivet gun firing straight up. By opening the bottom of the
skins, and by standing straight up, my bucking partner could get a good
look at the inside of the spar, and using the big foot end on the universal
bucking bar, we had no problem driving a great row of rivets.
One thing to note is to make sure that you don't have anything caught
between the upper and lower skins (drill chips, bits of tape etc) because
anything there makes the skins want to bulge apart.
Again, thanks for several replies I got from the list.
-Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: aol.com!Carrabell(at)matronics.com
[SMTP:aol.com!Carrabell(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 1996 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Riveting Aileron Skins
>Could you please be more specific about how you did this and what was the
>difficulty? I'm about at the step where I need to rivet both of mine and
>for the life of me I can't seem to figure out how I'm going to get a bar
>square to the shop side without hitting the spar web. I'd like to hear
>about what you found difficult so I can try to work around it.
>
>If anyone has a novel suggestion or some gotchas about riveting the top of
>the aileron to the spar, please reply to me (mikeang(at)microsoft.com). If I
>get some interesting replies I'll summarize and re-post to the list.
MY partner (Marty Cooke) and I just finished with ailerons.
We took a 4' X 6' pies of particle board that we often use for a work
bench
top and fastened it with a 6 to 8 inch overlap vertically on one of the 4 X
4
of our wing jig. We left a 4 " gap at the botton. Take your aileron and
clamp the leading edge so that the bottom of the spar is on the surface of
the particle board and the bottom skin will clear the particle board so
that
you can open it up to get inside. This will make the aileron very rigid
and
you can easily (tongue in cheek) get to the rear of the spar with your
bucking bar. The most dangerous areas are where the riviet are near the
stiffners. Our solution was to machine a piece of steel about 1" X 1.5" X
1/2" at an angle comparable to the anle on the spar and use it to buck the
rivets.
Jerry Walker
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BDStobbe <70743.2727(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Re; carb ice on injected engines;
My current ride (a Seneca II) has fuel injected engines and a provision for an
alternate air intake on each engine in case ice accumulates in the main filtered
intake. This alternate air door is mounted right on the filter housing, and
simply opens to bypass the air filter, probably the most likely area to ice up.
This air is heated only by the engine compartment in general, so it would seem
that this approach may be generally acceptable for injected engines. Of course,
each installation should be evaluated for its effectiveness prior to actually
needing it to avoid an off-airport, unscheduled landing.
Boy, there was no joy in mudville last evening - ever have one of those rivets
that, no matter how many times you drill it out and re-drive a new one it just
refuses to turn out right. Sometimes a nap on the couch after work is a better
choice than the workshop...
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6; N508RV
considering the couch... :>(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ron.taborek(at)flight642.com (RON TABOREK) |
A very timely discussion for me on carb heat boxes as I am just getting
ready to do mine.
Can anyone provide Rick Robbins Email address? I don't have it in my
list. Thanks.
Ron Taborek RV-4 Toronto Installing Engine ron.taborek(at)flight642.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sylvan Adamson <sylvan(at)micron.net> |
Hello to all the list members. My name is Sylvan Adamson, I live in Nampa
Idaho. I am currently finishing up a Kitfox Series V project. The closer
this project gets to completion, the more I find myself looking to the next
project. I can't imagine not building. I've decided to give the RV 6/6A a
try. I've never built all alum before and it's time for something different.
Whitch brings me to the list with a few questions. Can the RV planes be
built by one person or is it a two person project? To this point I have
always worked alone. How is the RV manual? Some manuals have caused builders
to alternate between fits of laughter to cursing and kicking the dog. Is the
kit complete? Not counting things not included such as paint, interior,
engine, ect can a complete airframe be built or are a bunch of options
needed to complete it? How is the factory at providing support? Are they
there or are you adrift once you've purchased the kit? What is a REALISTICK
cost of completing a RV 6/6A with a 0360 CS and basic VFR panel? I ask these
questions to the list members because most often the story of the factory
and the builders are rather different, to say the least. I am looking for
the real world side of the builders. Thank you for any insight you can give
me. Sylvan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Look out Lycoming! |
>
> Look out Lycoming, Todays Wall Street Journal, http://www.wsj.com , has
> and article that says that Toyota has received approval from the FAA to
> manufacture and market a 360hp V-8 engine to the light airplane market.
> Talk about a rocketship, how about a -8 with 360hp. Look out Lancair!
>
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
> Dougr(at)netins.net
> http://www.netconx.net/petroblend/dougr
>
Didn't Porsche try something like this? It seems to me I remember their CEO
lost his job (as well as millions of $$ (Franks)) over it. Hmmmmm. only time
will tell if their engine will be accepted. Any guesses as to who will be the
first to try and peddle another GA airplane powered by something other than a
Lyc., Cont. or P&W? Any GA company that considers it will have visions of
Moonie PPMs danding in their heads. "Chilling effect" is the phrase that
comes to mind.
BTW, don't bet on this mill being any cheaper that the GNP of a small republic.
My guess? $60K list, $40-45K after discounts. Will they sell to the Exp.
market? Not if their lawyers have anything to say about it. They may even
rely on the old "lease only" program for those they do market the thing to.
As far as stuffing one into an RV? I don't think so "Tim".
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RodWoodard(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Now, how about a heated static port? |
> People often talk about that "Smashing the Glass" technique. But I wonder,
do
>
> they all make their air-tight seal with the faceplate glass? It would be
a
> shame to smash an instrument and find out that it doesn't fix the problem.
>
Just a slight heads up here... If anybody's got one of those Rocky Mountain
Instruments microEncoders, I wouldn't suggest smashing the glass. Even though
it provides airspeed, VSI, altimeter, etc. I think you'd just mess up the LCD
display!
:-)
Rod Woodard
Loveland, Colorado
RodWoodard(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Look out Lycoming! |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBEDAB.F0C12180
I think Burt Rutan tested this engine at Mojave about three or four =
years ago. He built a special single engine glass (of course!) airplane =
for Toyota to test it. I can't remember what he called the plane though. =
The engine is a varient (Sp.) of a Lexus 8 Cyl. and you really never =
heard anything about it other than that.
On another note.........Is Bill Benedict really on the list from =
EUROPA.COM? Hmmm lets see here Europa, hmmm Europa Oh Yea ...Ain't that =
a glass plane with the main gear shoved up the pilots aaaaa between the =
seats??? Al prober(at)iwaynet.net
----------
From: Doug Rozendaal[SMTP:netins.net!DougR(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 1996 9:50 AM
Subject: RV-List: Look out Lycoming!
Look out Lycoming, Todays Wall Street Journal, http://www.wsj.com , has
and article that says that Toyota has received approval from the FAA to
manufacture and market a 360hp V-8 engine to the light airplane market.=20
Talk about a rocketship, how about a -8 with 360hp. Look out Lancair!=20
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
Dougr(at)netins.net =20
http://www.netconx.net/petroblend/dougr
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBEDAB.F0C12180
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Hoatson <lhoatson(at)e2.empirenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting Steel |
Hello,
We metal prep (steel and aluminum) with a phosphoric acid solution sold
under the name of "All-Brite". It's bright pink, and thick enough to
stay on the surface (I spray it on with a squirt bottle). It does a
great job of cleaning off minor rust. Just rinse it well.
Once etched, I've used the Marhyde for small pieces when mixing a pot of
primer is impractical.
I get the "All-Brite" from a local janitorial wholesaler.
Larry
--
Larry D. Hoatson lhoatson(at)empirenet.com Yucaipa, CA (L12)
Restoring 1950 Cessna 170A N9948A
Looking forward to RV6Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
| Subject: | Re: Painting Steel |
Yup, I tried some of that thin wash-it-off-with-water stuff that you get in
Pep Boy's too. I got the most lovely uniform red sheen of rust the next
morning. So then I paid about $15.00 for a quart of "Rust Mort". You don't
wash it off. Just apply a light coat to the metal and let it dry overnight.
Then prime. You guys that have pretty new garrage floors be carefull, this
stuff reacts violently with concrete, eats the heck out of it.
Ok, I'll leave Randall alone now.
Eric Henson
Dana Point, CA
ehenson(at)cldwell.attmail.com
>>>>>> Hey everyone, Randall is starting up the primer war!<<<<< He, He,
<;-)
I went to my local PPG dealer asking for a steel conversion coating
and they sold me some PPG DX520SG. It says it's a conversion coating,
and it turns the outside of the metal a gray crystalline color.
Problem is, it's a "dip or brush-on, rinse off (with water)" type of
process, and I've found that if I don't dry it off right away I will
get some surface "flash rust" that someone else mentioned.
I don't get it. If it's a conversion coating, why does it rust so
easily? I suppose if I dry it really fast this won't happen, but I
can't help but wonder about rust that might be just beginning to form
before you even get a chance to dry it off. I can always clean off
any rust later with a scotch-brite pad but what good is the conversion
coating if you have to go back and clean it off anyhow?
I suppose I could go buy one of the other products that doesn't
involve rinsing with water, but I sure hate to go buy something to do
what this stuff is _supposed_ to do.
Comments?
( Jeez, there I go contributing to a "primer" thread again... :-} )
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Location/Fuel Priming System |
<< On a RV6, where is the best place to put the Oil Cooler with a firewall
using
C/S prop, cross over exhausts, cabin heat muff, and carb heat muff?>>
Ron-
The firewall or the left rear baffle are places that work well and keep the
supply lines short. The firewall mount with 3" ducting is probably easier to
do. Van's sells a kit for this for about $30. There's just barely enough
room to place the cooler that Van's sells on the left baffle of the RV-6/6A.
Both of these positions will give you more cooling than you need. Use -8
hoses from the Lycoming recommended 3/8" NPT ports facing out the rear of the
engine. Steel (or S/S) fittings on the engine end are highly recommended for
all hose attachments. Further, you might consider placing a ratchet cable
actuated door on the cooler to block airflow completely in low temperature
atmospheres. The Vernatherm valve doesn't work like a normal thermostat so
you will always have some oil flowing thru the cooler. See other posts on
this subject in the Archives.
<>
Here you will get some differences of opinion. Pilots with no primer systems
will crank the engine while pumping the throttle (accelerator pump) and never
have much of a problem particularly in the warmer climates. It takes a while
for the fuel to get up the intake pipes and is therefore a little harder on
the starter motor. Others may have heard stories of raw fuel draining back
thru the carb into the airbox and igniting, causing a fire in the engine
compartment (I suppose it is possible). Running primer lines to 2, 3 or all
4 cylinders (depending on whether you dedicate any ports for manifold
pressure or other) is probably superior because it better atomizes the fuel
right into the intake port. You'll have to decide whether any advantage is
worth the weight and cost.
You might consider using an electric primer solenoid (in lieu of the manual
type), available from ACS, mounted to the firewall to avoid running
additional fuel lines back into the cabin from your gascolator. I have
installed a 2-circuit pushbutton on the instrument panel which actuates the
boost pump and the primer solenoid simultaneously for convenience. It is a
MIL-SPEC switch available from good aviation supply houses.
Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Gross weight and baggage |
In our area the RV-6 (tail draggers) with O-360 c/s and the battery in the
standard location are specifying 1800 lbs as their GW with 150 lbs allowable
in the rear baggage area. Those with the same mill and prop but with the
tail wheel up front should be in a similar situation although you will likely
have less useful load.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
I added up the costs to build a RV6 the other day with new O360
with CS prop, 1 nav, 1 txp, non-IFR and the parts came to about $49,000.
This was with the basic RV6 kit, not quick build.
Having built a RV4, I think I added up most of the expense items so
that should be a ball park cost. Add more for IFR and more avionics,
fancy upholstry, etc.
Herman
> Hello to all the list members. My name is Sylvan Adamson, I live in Nampa
> Idaho. I am currently finishing up a Kitfox Series V project. The closer
> this project gets to completion, the more I find myself looking to the next
> project. I can't imagine not building. I've decided to give the RV 6/6A a
> try. I've never built all alum before and it's time for something different.
> Whitch brings me to the list with a few questions. Can the RV planes be
> built by one person or is it a two person project? To this point I have
> always worked alone. How is the RV manual? Some manuals have caused builders
> to alternate between fits of laughter to cursing and kicking the dog. Is the
> kit complete? Not counting things not included such as paint, interior,
> engine, ect can a complete airframe be built or are a bunch of options
> needed to complete it? How is the factory at providing support? Are they
> there or are you adrift once you've purchased the kit? What is a REALISTICK
> cost of completing a RV 6/6A with a 0360 CS and basic VFR panel? I ask these
> questions to the list members because most often the story of the factory
> and the builders are rather different, to say the least. I am looking for
> the real world side of the builders. Thank you for any insight you can give
> me. Sylvan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< Can the RV planes be built by one person or is it a two person project?
To this
point I have always worked alone. How is the RV manual? Some manuals have
caused builders to alternate between fits of laughter to cursing and kicking
the
dog.>>
Sylvan, you will do all three! But, get the Frank Justice instructions, the
Orndorff videos and read the drawings VERY carefully and you'll do fine. I
built two Kitfoxes prior to building my 6A and the sheet metal work is
relatively straightforward.
<< Is the kit complete? Not counting things not included such as paint,
interior,
engine, etc., can a complete airframe be built or are a bunch of options
needed to complete it?>>
There are lots of additional things you will need to get to complete a
flyable plane.
<< How is the factory at providing support? Are they
there or are you adrift once you've purchased the kit?>>
The factory is getting better. Tom Green is doing the E-mail duty at Van's,
Andy Hanna and Bill Benedict are on the RV-List.
<>
>From $35K to $60K, depending on used vs rebuilt vs new engine and other
options/avionics.
Regards,
Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Sellmeyer" <scotts(at)pacusa.com> |
> Re; carb ice on injected engines;
>
> My current ride (a Seneca II) has fuel injected engines and a provision
for an
> alternate air intake on each engine in case ice accumulates in the main
> filtered intake. This alternate air door is mounted right on the filter
housing, and
> simply opens to bypass the air filter, probably the most likely area to
ice up.
>
> This air is heated only by the engine compartment in general, so it would
seem
> that this approach may be generally acceptable for injected engines. Of
course,
> each installation should be evaluated for its effectiveness prior to
actually
> needing it to avoid an off-airport, unscheduled landing.
For those considering a similar arrangement, I know of an icing incident
that happened two weeks ago in a C177RG with a fuel-injected Lycoming. It
seems that rain made it through the filter and froze on the alternate air
door assembly, freezing it in the closed position. The filter eventually
froze up as well and the plane turned into a glider at 9000' in complete
IMC. Some of the ice melted as they passed through 4000' and partial power
was regained, and an emergency landing at a nearby airport was made. If
they had flown 30 minutes longer, they would have been over moutains
without any suitable places to land.
I would suggest a truly separate and completely sheltered alternate air
intake that is on the warm side of the engine baffling. The current
revision of FAR Part 23 (23.1091 and 23.1093) states this in a
not-too-clear manner. It also mentions preheat and heat rise requirements
in a confusing manner, but basically intends to have the alternate air
intake located close enough to an exhaust tube to get a significant heat
rise and eliminate the icing possibilities.
Hope this helps.
Scott
scotts(at)pacusa.com
RV-6 emp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Look out Lycoming! |
>Didn't Porsche try something like this? It seems to me I remember their CEO
>lost his job (as well as millions of $$ (Franks)) over it. Hmmmmm. only time
>will tell if their engine will be accepted. Any guesses as to who will be
>the
>first to try and peddle another GA airplane powered by something other than a
>Lyc., Cont. or P&W? Any GA company that considers it will have visions of
>Moonie PPMs danding in their heads. "Chilling effect" is the phrase that
>comes to mind.
>
>BTW, don't bet on this mill being any cheaper that the GNP of a small
>republic.
>My guess? $60K list, $40-45K after discounts. Will they sell to the Exp.
>market? Not if their lawyers have anything to say about it. They may even
>rely on the old "lease only" program for those they do market the thing to.
I have not read the WSJ article yet but, I got it from a pretty good source
that $30,000,000 was invested certifying it. Lets see $30,000,000 divided
by ? = breakeven. Good luck.
You guys will have an RV 18 by that time that can probably use 360 hp.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
[snip!]
How about possible solutions from those that have mounted a
> heated pitot tube
>
> Jerry Walker
> RV-6
I moved the tie-down to the next bay outboard. I had already
installed it in the bay specified but fortunately I hadn't drilled the
skin for the tie-down ring yet so it was no big deal to move it.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Carb Heat Box |
Ron, I dont think Rick has an E-mail address but his phone # is 303-422-9389
Im sure he will appreciate the buisness. For any one else interested thats
Rick Robbins. He makes a beautifull set of heat muffs for crossover or
straight pipe exhaust that are put out by Larry Vetterman.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
Sylvan, If you live in Nampa you live right next door to someone who built
more Rv's than you could imagine. Drive over to Murphy Idaho and look up
Harold Styner (Stiner) not sure how his last name is spelled. He has built
6s, 6as, and 4s. If anyone could give some hands on insight it would be
Harrold. You dont need to know how to spell his last name to find him, all 5
people in Murphy know him. Ryan RV4131rb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting Steel |
Eric, when it 'eats' the concrete, that means it has acid in it.
It is normally phosphoric acid, which is also what eats the rust.
I am a little suprised that you don't rinse it off before you paint.
I would be a little concerned about it continuing to eat into the steel.
Maybe a thin coat is neutralized by the humidity. That is how the self
etching primers work. Anyway, I would hate to have this stuff eating
the metal under the paint.
I had some acid etch leak out of a container that was stored and the
acid got onto my sheet metal brake (one of those 2ft jobs) and it
ate the heck out of the steel. It sat there for 6 mo or so before I
found it.
Herman
dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
>
>
>
>
> Yup, I tried some of that thin wash-it-off-with-water stuff that you get in
> Pep Boy's too. I got the most lovely uniform red sheen of rust the next
> morning. So then I paid about $15.00 for a quart of "Rust Mort". You don't
> wash it off. Just apply a light coat to the metal and let it dry overnight.
> Then prime. You guys that have pretty new garrage floors be carefull, this
> stuff reacts violently with concrete, eats the heck out of it.
>
> Ok, I'll leave Randall alone now.
>
> Eric Henson
> Dana Point, CA
>
> ehenson(at)cldwell.attmail.com
>
> >>>>>> Hey everyone, Randall is starting up the primer war!<<<<< He, He,
> <;-)
>
> I went to my local PPG dealer asking for a steel conversion coating
> and they sold me some PPG DX520SG. It says it's a conversion coating,
> and it turns the outside of the metal a gray crystalline color.
>
> Problem is, it's a "dip or brush-on, rinse off (with water)" type of
> process, and I've found that if I don't dry it off right away I will
> get some surface "flash rust" that someone else mentioned.
>
> I don't get it. If it's a conversion coating, why does it rust so
> easily? I suppose if I dry it really fast this won't happen, but I
> can't help but wonder about rust that might be just beginning to form
> before you even get a chance to dry it off. I can always clean off
> any rust later with a scotch-brite pad but what good is the conversion
> coating if you have to go back and clean it off anyhow?
>
> I suppose I could go buy one of the other products that doesn't
> involve rinsing with water, but I sure hate to go buy something to do
> what this stuff is _supposed_ to do.
>
> Comments?
>
> ( Jeez, there I go contributing to a "primer" thread again... :-} )
>
> Randall Henderson, RV-6
> randall(at)edt.com
> http://www.edt.com/homewing
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Winter Kit (chatter) |
>
> >> < is to simply use Duck Tape to tape(snip)
> >>
> >> Might cause dangerous quacks to develop.
> >>
> >> Peter Bennett
> >> Sydney Australia
> >> RV6 working inside fuselage
>
> >After they fix it they would put it on your bill
> >
> >Don Mack
> >donmack@super-highway.net
> >>
>
>Unless it is de-ducked from the bill first.
>
Les drag(at)aol.com
>
Duck!
You mean we're being shelled?
Eggsactly
Leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Carb Heat Box |
>A very timely discussion for me on carb heat boxes as I am just getting
>ready to do mine.
>Can anyone provide Rick Robbins Email address? I don't have it in my
>list. Thanks.
>
>Ron Taborek RV-4 Toronto Installing Engine ron.taborek(at)flight642.com
Ron, I don't know that Rick has E-mail but his phone is 303-422-9389.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
| Subject: | Re: Look out Lycoming! |
> Hmmmmm. only time will tell if their engine will be accepted. Any
guesses as >to who will be the first to try and peddle another GA airplane
powered by >something other than a Lyc., Cont. or P&W?
>As far as stuffing one into an RV? I don't think so "Tim".
>
> Chris
How about the Diamond Katana which is powered by a Rotax 912? As for
acceptance by the public it sounds as if you have already made up your mind.
Yours seems to be a prevalent attitude when any discussion of an alternative
engine comes up. Perhaps that is why no major car engine manufacturer has
been willing to persue this. I dont accept as fact, the premise that nobody
but Ly-Cont can build an acceptable aircraft engine.
BTW I know of an RV-4 with an all-aluminum 400ci small block chevy for power
(although I havent seen it yet). Last time I spoke to the owner he was
expecting to begin taxi tests around start of the new year.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Look out Lycoming! |
>Didn't Porsche...(as well as millions of $$ (Franks)) over it.
^^^^^^
Deutsch Marks verleicht ?
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q project:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker
(last update 12/4/96 - flight in OMABP V6 RV-6)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Pilot Height Difference... |
I finally got to sit in & fly a standard RV-6 with slider canopy (if you can
call the OMABP V6 powered RV-6 "standard"). From that I've determined that
I must raise the canopy 1" per Van's instructions, and move the rudder
pedals 1" forward and up to accommodate my frame (6'4").
Thanks to a certain listers doings (uhummm...), I now have a 5'4" lady pilot
to consider while building .
To all listers in the mid 5' range, or having experience with passengers of
this height, can the seat back be moved far enough forward to accommodate?
How about seeing out the windshield? Ability to reach the relocated rudder
pedals?
Until I'm able to start on the fuselage, I'm looking for ideas to
accommodate the height difference. A pair of 5" thick fashionable wooden
clogs have already been mentioned....
Thanks,
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q project:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker
(last update 12/4/96 - flight in OMABP V6 RV-6)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: engine selection |
Dan,
I talked to a rep from Van's at Sun'n'Fun who changed from a Pacesetter to a
Warnke. He is the one I stole that comment of "My Pacesetter is Firewood"
A friend of mine borrowed my Warnke to try it out on his "4". He had a
Pacesetter. He couldn't believe the difference. Of course, I don't remember
the specs on his Pacesetter as this was about 4 years ago. I do know that my
"6" out climbed and cruised his "4". Yes, I know that there are a lot of
other variables. Just wanted to let you know what the Van's Rep said and to
note that their was a significant difference between the two props on my
friends "4"
Cheers.....Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
For what it's worth, pitot heat is turned on before every flight of every
Canadian air force aircraft, IFR or VFR. Is there a reason one wouldn't use
pitot heat?
Tedd McHenry
tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
(RV-6 plans only)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNES_ERIC(at)Tandem.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Look out Lycoming! (Chatter) |
Ak Rob, hast du nichts gelernt? Du muss hier auf diesen list korrekt
schreiben!
"Vielleicht"!
=)
EB
------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT --------
SENT 12-19-96 FROM SMTPGATE @MAILMN (r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com)
>Didn't Porsche...(as well as millions of $$ (Franks)) over it.
^^^^^^
Deutsch Marks verleicht ?
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q project:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker
(last update 12/4/96 - flight in OMABP V6 RV-6)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dieck(at)apexcomm.net (Robert Dieck) |
| Subject: | Re: Look out Lycoming! |
>
>Didn't Porsche try something like this? It seems to me I remember their CEO
>lost his job (as well as millions of $$ (Franks)) over it. Hmmmmm. only time
>will tell if their engine will be accepted. Any guesses as to who will be the
>first to try and peddle another GA airplane powered by something other than a
>Lyc., Cont. or P&W? Any GA company that considers it will have visions of
>Moonie PPMs danding in their heads. "Chilling effect" is the phrase that
>comes to mind.
Yes the MOONEY PFM did fail. Both the right and wrong airframe at the same
time. How can this be? Take a fast clean design give it an engine that has
only one engine control (not enough Toys to play with), liquid cooling and
sounds like a P51. Then stretch the fuselage 14 in. all in the baggage area,
add 10 HP but enough weight to actually make the airplane slower and to top
it off overprice it. Don't no why it didn't sell!
The basic airframe lead to the TLS that is Mooney's current top of the line.
Bob
The Airplane Factory
Robert/Tammie Dieck
Wausau WI USA
dieck(at)apexcomm.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RCB <snaproll(at)rmi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Look out Lycoming! |
Doug Rozendaal wrote:
>
> Look out Lycoming, Todays Wall Street Journal, http://www.wsj.com , has
> and article that says that Toyota has received approval from the FAA to
> manufacture and market a 360hp V-8 engine to the light airplane market.
> Talk about a rocketship, how about a -8 with 360hp. Look out Lancair!
>
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
> Dougr(at)netins.net
> http://www.netconx.net/petroblend/dougr
There was an article about the Toyota engine about a year ago in... AOPA
magazine, I think. As I remember, the engine was to be "competetively
priced" with the big 350 hp Lyc and Cont which would put it at, what
$75,000? Also, it was to be sold under the name of Hamilton Standard
because of the reputation they have in aviation already.
Roy
RV-80096
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dieck(at)apexcomm.net (Robert Dieck) |
>Hello to all the list members. My name is Sylvan Adamson, I live in Nampa
>Idaho. I am currently finishing up a Kitfox Series V project. The closer
>this project gets to completion, the more I find myself looking to the next
>project. I can't imagine not building. I've decided to give the RV 6/6A a
>try. I've never built all alum before and it's time for something different.
>Whitch brings me to the list with a few questions. Can the RV planes be
>built by one person or is it a two person project? To this point I have
>always worked alone. How is the RV manual? Some manuals have caused builders
>to alternate between fits of laughter to cursing and kicking the dog. Is the
>kit complete? Not counting things not included such as paint, interior,
>engine, ect can a complete airframe be built or are a bunch of options
>needed to complete it? How is the factory at providing support? Are they
>there or are you adrift once you've purchased the kit? What is a REALISTICK
>cost of completing a RV 6/6A with a 0360 CS and basic VFR panel? I ask these
>questions to the list members because most often the story of the factory
>and the builders are rather different, to say the least. I am looking for
>the real world side of the builders. Thank you for any insight you can give
>me. Sylvan
>
>
The thing that really sold me is the number of guys out there that are
repeat builders. Not just second time around but 3nd, 4th, 5th ect ect ect.
Bob
RV6a Fuselage
The Airplane Factory
Robert/Tammie Dieck
Wausau WI USA
dieck(at)apexcomm.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RodWoodard(at)aol.com |
A few weeks ago, somebody mentioned something about releasing fuselage kits
and developing a nosewheel RV-8. It was my understanding that the nosewheel
option was a ways down the road. I didn't say anything when the original post
appeared, thinking that people would jump all over it, but since no one did,
I thought I'd ask if anyone's heard what Van's current plans are with regard
to a nosewheel RV-8.
Thanks in advance.
Rod Woodard
RV-8, Empennage
Loveland, Colorado
RodWoodard(at)aol.com (Notice?? No more Lawyernet address!!--too much razzing!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Look out Lycoming! |
John Top wrote:
>I have not read the WSJ article yet but, I got it from a pretty good source
>that $30,000,000 was invested certifying it.
Yeah, right. $50,000 to get certification, $1,000,000 to develop the engine,
$13,950,000 for advertising to convince the Ludites that it will work at least
as well as what we've got now and the other $15,000,000 for legal contingencies!
What I have trouble understanding is why is there so much resistance to
manufacturers who might save us thousands of dollars on our engine purchases???
Hal Kempthorne halk(at)netcom.com Santa Clara, CA. (SJC)
Debonair N6134V RV-6AQ on order!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com |
Please fax plans for rivet setter using jack.
Fax No. 1-612-890-8065.
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Immelmann(at)aol.com |
Well Yahoo!
I finally took the plunge and ordered a tail kit for my RV-6. (I've only
owned plans since '91 - so you can see I'm really rushing into this.)
I've been lurking on the list for some time now, so perhaps I won't flood the
list with typical rookie riviter questions - but then again - you never know.
Be talkin' to ya,
Ed Holyoke in Northridge CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pmbs(at)probe.att.com |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
Ted,
> For what it's worth, pitot heat is turned on before every flight of every
> Canadian air force aircraft, IFR or VFR. Is there a reason one wouldn't use
> pitot heat?
Perhaps premature aging of the heater element. I am not familiar with MTBF
of heated pitot or pitot/static heads.
Anyone out there know any "expected service lifetimes" for them??
Checking before an IFR flight is absolutely needed, but who's to say
that the cycling of it on and off didn't just cause it to become inop.???
Paul Bilodeau
pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com
Workshop setup at a Holiday Standstill......even though Empennage Kit
has arrived and has been inventoried!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
Rod, Van's is just finishing the second -8 fuselage prototype. We are
going to assemble one more -8 fuse from production parts just to make sure
all the pieces fit together. This will probably be the fuselage that he
moves the third wheel from the back end up to the front end once the parts
have been verified for production. It should not hold up the release of the
-8 fuselage which we hope to be shipping by the end of Feb '97 (+/- one
month) Bill.
>A few weeks ago, somebody mentioned something about releasing fuselage kits
>and developing a nosewheel RV-8......>I thought I'd ask if anyone's heard
what Van's current plans are with regard to a nosewheel RV-8.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Rod Woodard
>RV-8, Empennage
>Loveland, Colorado
>RodWoodard(at)aol.com (Notice?? No more Lawyernet address!!--too much razzing!)
>
>
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV
Over 1000 RV hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
Brian, I tried to send direct, but it bounced back. Hope this makes it. Bill
>Brian, Sounds like a normal rudder. If you look at most aircraft, RVs,
>Glas.., etc, you will see that none of them are perfect. 1/16 sounds good.
>Typically an RV will need a trim tab to give right rudder trim. Most of
>Vans planes have one, and is adjusted in length until the plane flies with
>the ball in the middle when over 150 mph. We do not use the tab that
>extends aft of the trailing edge, but a wedge on the left side of the
>rudder at the trailing edge. When painted the same color as the rudder, it
>is hardle noticeable.
>
>>Dear Bill
>>
>>Thanks a lot for your reply in regard to the rudder trim. I have just
>>finsished my rudder, and on sighting it along the trailing edge it seems to
>>have a 1/16 or so bow about 18 inches long. When I stand the trailing edge
>>upright on a flat surface I can see a space of about 1/16 between the
>>trailing edge and the flat surface. I was wondering whether this was
>>significant, and if so, whether a rudder trim/trab would a) be necessary,
>>and b) be sufficient to correct the defect.
>>
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Brian Hitchings
>>
>>
>Bill
>RV-4-180 soon. N894RV
>Over 1000 RV hours.
>
>
>
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV
Over 1000 RV hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Winter Kit (chatter) |
Maybe the best way to keek the engine warm is to fly "down" low!
Chris May
RV-4 N595CM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Now, how about a heated static port? |
> > I don't believe static heat is necessary, as all IFR certified aircraft
have
> > 2 static ports (as does Van's static kit). Icing a static port is
pretty
> > rare and if you managed to ice both of them up it would be the least of
> your
> > worries as the airfarme would have far too much ice on it to fly anyway.
>
> As, hopefully all of the rest of you know, this is NOT true. The IFR
> Cessna
> that I instruct in has only one external static port plus an alternate
> static source switch for a cockpit source just in case the one external
> port
> becomes clogged.
>
You are correct Bob, I wasn't clear enough in my post. I was attempting to
point out a general idea rather than an airframe detail. The point is that
all IFR aircraft have at least two static SOURCES if not ports, and a lot of
IFR aircraft have 2 (or more) static ports as well. I believe static heat to
be unnecessary for RV's.
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pilot Height Difference... |
Rob, I am 5' 3" and what I did was to build the alternate set of pedals.
On the bottom I used 2" square tubing. On the top of the pedal you can use
a 1" square tubing if you have dual brakes, which, I do recommend. I put the
seat back in the forward hinge and made an extra thick seat bottome so I had
about a 1" head clearance. I kept the seat back cushion the same thickness
for both sides. If this doesn't give her enough reach to the pedals, you
could add another piece of square tubing. Just by making the alternate
pedals you will gain some reach. You don't want to compensate by using a
thicker seat back because this would interfere with aft stick movement. Hope
this helps.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kitairbldr(at)earthlink.net (Charles Coyne) |
| Subject: | Re: Winter Kit (chatter) |
>
> >> < is to simply use Duck Tape to tape(snip)
> >>
> >> Might cause dangerous quacks to develop.
> >>
> >> Peter Bennett
> >> Sydney Australia
> >> RV6 working inside fuselage
>
> >After they fix it they would put it on your bill
> >
> >Don Mack
> >donmack@super-highway.net
> >>
>
>Unless it is de-ducked from the bill first.
>
Les drag(at)aol.com
>
Duck!
You mean we're being shelled?
Eggsactly
Leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
Interesting chat on the web tonight.
kitairbldr(at)earthlink.net (Charles Coyne)
Lurking about.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kitairbldr(at)earthlink.net (Charles Coyne) |
| Subject: | Re: Winter Kit (chatter) |
>>
>> >> < is to simply use Duck Tape to tape(snip)
>> >>
>> >> Might cause dangerous quacks to develop.
>> >>
>> >> Peter Bennett
>> >> Sydney Australia
>> >> RV6 working inside fuselage
>>
>> >After they fix it they would put it on your bill
>> >
>> >Don Mack
>> >donmack@super-highway.net
>> >>
>>
>>Unless it is de-ducked from the bill first.
>>
>Les drag(at)aol.com
>>
>Duck!
>
>You mean we're being shelled?
>
>Eggsactly
>
>Leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
Interesting Chat on the web tonite.
Chuck Coyne
kitairbldr(at)earthlink.net
Lurking
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin lane <kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com> |
>
> Boy, there was no joy in mudville last evening - ever have one of those rivets
> that, no matter how many times you drill it out and re-drive a new one it just
> refuses to turn out right. Sometimes a nap on the couch after work is a better
> choice than the workshop...
> the rule in my "hanger" is no holes drilled after 10 pm! I'm also
getting over the stigma of pop rivets and using them occasionally since
noting the success rate of 2nd and third growth rivets!
kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com 6A-canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin lane <kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com> |
Can the RV planes be
> built by one person or is it a two person project?
You work alone but you have 600+ others helping you!
How is the RV manual? Some manuals have caused builders
> to alternate between fits of laughter to cursing and kicking the dog.
We're told it's the "homebuild" experience!
Is the
> kit complete? Not counting things not included such as paint, interior,
> engine, ect can a complete airframe be built or are a bunch of options
> needed to complete it? How is the factory at providing support? Are they
> there or are you adrift once you've purchased the kit? What is a REALISTICK
> cost of completing a RV 6/6A with a 0360 CS and basic VFR panel?
Sounds like you never got the "free" demo ride! Times 'a wastin' ;~)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
>
> Hello to all the list members. My name is Sylvan Adamson, I live in Nampa
> Idaho. I am currently finishing up a Kitfox Series V project. The closer
> this project gets to completion, the more I find myself looking to the next
> project. I can't imagine not building. I've decided to give the RV 6/6A a
> try. I've never built all alum before and it's time for something different.
> Whitch brings me to the list with a few questions. Can the RV planes be
> built by one person or is it a two person project? To this point I have
> always worked alone. How is the RV manual? Some manuals have caused builders
> to alternate between fits of laughter to cursing and kicking the dog. Is the
> kit complete? Not counting things not included such as paint, interior,
> engine, ect can a complete airframe be built or are a bunch of options
> needed to complete it? How is the factory at providing support? Are they
> there or are you adrift once you've purchased the kit? What is a REALISTICK
> cost of completing a RV 6/6A with a 0360 CS and basic VFR panel? I ask these
> questions to the list members because most often the story of the factory
> and the builders are rather different, to say the least. I am looking for
> the real world side of the builders. Thank you for any insight you can give
> me. Sylvan
>
>
>
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-591-1037
Showpage Software, Inc. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
14190 47th Ave N.
Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Winter Kit (chatter) |
>
> >> < is to simply use Duck Tape to tape(snip)
> >>
> >> Might cause dangerous quacks to develop.
> >>
> >> Peter Bennett
> >> Sydney Australia
> >> RV6 working inside fuselage
>
> >After they fix it they would put it on your bill
> >
> >Don Mack
> >donmack@super-highway.net
> >>
>
>Unless it is de-ducked from the bill first.
>
Les drag(at)aol.com
>
Duck!
You mean we're being shelled? >>
Don't forget to feather the edges!
-Ernie Brower, American Duck Tape Council
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PAUL_ROSALES(at)prodigy.com (MR PAUL A ROSALES) |
From: GJGP22B(at)prodigy.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Yahoo!
-- [ From: Paul A. Rosales * EMC.Ver #2.5.1 ] --
> Well Yahoo!
> I finally took the plunge and ordered a tail kit for my RV-6. ........
> Ed Holyoke in Northridge CA
>
>
Welcome Ed! Post your e-mail address and maybe I can introduce you to
some of the 16 known RV builders here in the Antelope Valley (3 of them
just started their RV-6 tail kits within the last month)!
Paul_Rosales(at)prodigy.com
#24272: RV-6A N628PV
Working the firewall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elon Ormsby <elon.o(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Lycoming Worries? (Chat) |
I had a chance to observe the Toyota at Burt Rutans Mojave Hanger about 4 years
ago. The airplane looked
like a slightly sub-scale, glass, Navion with the Typical Rutan swoopy (like a
shark) tail. I thought it was
a nice looking plane. The engine was something else. It was a beautiful 32 valve
V-8. But what I cant
possibly describe is how quiet it was. From about 200 feet away, with the aircraft
under a full power
take-off, all you could hear was the smooth humming, melodic wine of the PSRU.
To me it sounded beautiful.
Kind of like the gear wine from a turbine but without any exhaust noise and no
prop noise. It was a beautiful,
smooth, quiet installation. When it was in the hanger, I could only observe the
engine installation from about
10 ft so I couldnt check out the exhaust system. However, just like the Porsche
engined Mooney, the Lexus is
a small engine. I think the Porsche was a 3600cc (219 cu.in.) and the Lexus is
aprox 240 cu.in. So it is a
small engine turning a lot of rpms. Rumor at the time was the Lexus was turning
5,500rpm in cruise!
Normally, I would be pessimistic but Ive learned that the Japanese are careful,
extremely patient, and make
astute marketing decisions looking toward the future. I cant hazard a guess as
to how it is going to turn
out. But you are surly NOT going to get a certified, modern 32-valve V-8, liquid
cooled, electronic injected,
aircraft engine (with PSRU) for $10k-$15k.
BTW Honda has built and test flown a turbine engine on one side of a MU2(in Japan)
but that doesnt mean there
is a "cheap" turbine in your future.
Elon
elon.o(at)worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Yep, while flying on the equator....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>For what it's worth, pitot heat is turned on before every flight of
>every
>Canadian air force aircraft, IFR or VFR. Is there a reason one
>wouldn't use
>pitot heat?
>
>Tedd McHenry
>tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
>(RV-6 plans only)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Riedlinger" <paulried(at)spyder.net> |
| Subject: | Bonehead move of the year |
Looks like I saved my big bonehead move of the year until two weeks
before the year end. I took my kids out to lunch at McDonald's and while
they were playing I read the next few steps of my empennage manual.
Everything was going along great until we got home and I realized that I
had tossed the manual into the trash along with the rest of the
garbage on the tray!!!! I called Van's and Tom searched high and low
but the only manuals they have are for the Pre-punched kits. Mine is
the older version. I would be eternally grateful if someone could
make me a copy of their non-pre-punched RV-6 empennage manual and send it
to me.
If you are willing to do this, please e-mail me directly and I will
forward my address to you (its in North Carolina).
Many thanks and best of the holiday season to you all!
Paul Riedlinger
paulried(at)spyder.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark LaBoyteaux <tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
probe.att.com!pmbs(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Ted,
>
>
>
> > For what it's worth, pitot heat is turned on before every flight of every
> > Canadian air force aircraft, IFR or VFR. Is there a reason one wouldn't use
> > pitot heat?
>
> Perhaps premature aging of the heater element. I am not familiar with MTBF
> of heated pitot or pitot/static heads.
>
> Anyone out there know any "expected service lifetimes" for them??
>
> Checking before an IFR flight is absolutely needed, but who's to say
> that the cycling of it on and off didn't just cause it to become inop.???
>
> Paul Bilodeau
> pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com
>
> Workshop setup at a Holiday Standstill......even though Empennage Kit
> has arrived and has been inventoried!
I don't know about Military type aircraft, but on all of our commercial
aircraft that
American Airlines uses, the pitot-static heaters run on a low wattage
heater on the ground, and when the air-ground switches on the landing
gear make on take-off, they switch to a high wattage mode. This also
applies to the heated drain masts, aoa vanes,
and air temp probes. As for how long they last, the only time I've ever
had to change one, it was because it was damaged by ground equipment.
Mark LaBoyteaux
tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Electronic Ignition, et. als. |
>
> My only regret so far: I didn't heed my own gut instincts to get on board
> with Bob Nucholls' Aero Electric Connection for bulletproof electrical system
> design before doing my panel and wiring... with one of the mags replaced by
> an electronic ignition, I suddenly care alot more about any possible
> scenarios where the alternator goes off line and the battery starts to wind
> down......
>>I've experienced electrical system failures two times. If you turn off the
>>lights and keep your radio transmissions to a minimum, you'll have more battery
>>than you have fuel. An alternator failure is simply no big deal, if your
>>battery is up to snuff.
The operative words here are "up to snuff" . . . . we replace tires when
the tread is almost gone, overhaul engines when conpression is low, etc
but we run batteries until they die . . .
The battery SHOULD be your MOST reliable source of electrical energy but
by the time it cranks the engine for the last time, it's usefulness as
a standby power source is long since departed. I've got a lot of readers
putting in electronic ignition with dual 17 a.h. battery installations.
I recommend replacing one battery every annual. That way you never have
a battery older than two years and always on less than one year old.
THEN . . . the alternator becomes a means for keeping batteries charged
and NOT a requirement for keeping one aloft.
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========oOOo=(_)=oOOo==========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
rv-list(at)matronics.com,Internet writes:
Jeff,
All engines require an air inlet. Under severe icing situations this
inlet can ice over.A good design would indicate that an alternate air
source would still be required, but, in this case, possibly the lower
cowl heated air should be sufficient. I don't have a lot of experience
with injected engines. Maybe somebdy else could comment on this.....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
I have an injected engine and omitted a heat muff and duct to the air
box, even though I still put the door in.
My inspector still required that I put a source of alternate air just
in case the filter became clogged with ice.
Ken
RV6A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | FLAP MOTOR REPLACEMENT |
Could someone please update the list on the situation with the flap
motor return situation with Van's.
Being in Canada makes moving stuff across the border a pain!
Thanks
Ken
RV6A flying with Electric Flaps
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
<< All engines require an air inlet. Under severe icing situations this
inlet can ice over.A good design would indicate that an alternate air
source would still be required, but, in this case, possibly the lower
cowl heated air should be sufficient. I don't have a lot of experience
with injected engines. Maybe somebdy else could comment on this..... >>
The lower cowl air is NOT sufficient in raising the inlet air tempeture. I
have a CAT indicator and I find that I only get a 3 to 5 degree increase. I
will be installing a dedicated heat muff in the future.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC, NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AveryTools(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Bonehead move of the year |
dear bonehead
G
eorge Orndorff has a copy i can copy hes and send it out today if you would
like us to give us a call at 817 439-8400
judy avery
avery
enterprises
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Look out Lycoming! |
>
> >Didn't Porsche...(as well as millions of $$ (Franks)) over it.
> ^^^^^^
> Deutsch Marks verleicht ?
>
> Rob Acker
No, no...Porsche is a French company now ;-)
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Winter Kit (chatter) |
Maybe the best way to keek the engine warm is to fly "down" low!
Chris May
C'mon guys, these jokes are getting really fowl!
Ken RV6A flying (non canard version)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Look out Lycoming! |
<< Yes the MOONEY PFM did fail. Both the right and wrong airframe at the same
time. How can this be? Take a fast clean design give it an engine that has
only one engine control (not enough Toys to play with), liquid cooling and
sounds like a P51 >>
The PFM (Porsche Flug Motor) was air cooled and infact had two electronic
fans to insure that the heads were kept at the correct tempeture in the tight
Mooney cowl.
Truth be known, the PFM was a great motor but a bit underpowered for its
weight (217 hp). Porsche could have made the engine more powerful via
turbocharging had the engine met the market with some success. Features of
the engine included fuel injection, duel alternators, single lever power
controls and an excelllent reputation for quality.
The engine became heavy when the FAA "helped" Porsche re-engineer the engine
to be just like a Continental/Lycoming.
It was not the guns that killed Kong, it was the FAA.
Gary Corde
RV-6 n211GC, NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Look out Lycoming! |
>
> How about the Diamond Katana which is powered by a Rotax 912? As for
> acceptance by the public it sounds as if you have already made up your mind.
> Yours seems to be a prevalent attitude when any discussion of an alternative
> engine comes up. Perhaps that is why no major car engine manufacturer has
> been willing to persue this. I dont accept as fact, the premise that nobody
> but Ly-Cont can build an acceptable aircraft engine.
>
Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a new and improved AC engine. I would
also like to know from the the time the first blade swung past the windshield
to the last time I pulled the mixture to ICO, that it would be as good a friend
as all the Lycomings that I have flow behind have been.
Add to that the fun of dealing with all those "confusing" controlls like mixture
and cowl flaps on one of our old tech birds. I think part of the problem with
the
PPM was the single lever power. It's sort of like a automatic in a sports car.
People that fly, like the connection to the inner workings of the machine just
like
the sports car guy loves to stir the gear-box on his 911. This is what surprised
me about the Porsche AC engine. They seemd to forget what it's all about when
the
designed the single lever power setting thing-a-ma-jig. Ooooops. I don't know
much about the Toyotas power management system, but the smart money is on the
single lever approach. That's all fine and dandy for a turbin operator who is
just
driving a bus in the sky, but picture just how "ho-mum" an RV would be without
all
the controlls. If you want to know what Toyota is like as far as "fun", go test
drive one. They are a good car, and I will admit they are reliable, but fun they
are not.
BTW, I know several people that would argue with you about Porsche not being a
major
manufacturer. BMW and Daimler Benz (Mercedies) also have manufactured AC engines,
not
to mention Mitsubishi (SP?). Look at the badge on any of the above, they are all
examples of an artists concept of a propeller. They are all very proud of the
AC
heritage.
> BTW I know of an RV-4 with an all-aluminum 400ci small block chevy for power
> (although I havent seen it yet). Last time I spoke to the owner he was
> expecting to begin taxi tests around start of the new year.
>
The SB Chevy is a fine engine for a Corvette. For the record, if this thing
goes 1000 hours whithout a forced landing, I like my "crow" well done. Keep
me posted.
Chris "Mr. Opinion" Ruble
cruble(at)cisco.com
P.S. I ment to say "Marks"
> Mike Wills
> RV-4 (wings)
> willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Look out Lycoming! (Chatter) |
>Du muss hier auf diesen list korrekt schreiben!
^^^^
Ich muss...Du musst?
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q project:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker
(last update 12/4/96 - flight in OMABP V6 RV-6)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Bonehead move of the year |
Paul Riedlinger wrote:
>
> Looks like I saved my big bonehead move of the year until two weeks
> before the year end. I took my kids out to lunch at McDonald's and while
> they were playing I read the next few steps of my empennage manual.
> Everything was going along great until we got home and I realized that I
> had tossed the manual into the trash along with the rest of the
> garbage on the tray!!!! I called Van's and Tom searched high and low
> but the only manuals they have are for the Pre-punched kits. Mine is
> the older version. I would be eternally grateful if someone could
> make me a copy of their non-pre-punched RV-6 empennage manual and send it
> to me.
>
> If you are willing to do this, please e-mail me directly and I will
> forward my address to you (its in North Carolina).
>
> Many thanks and best of the holiday season to you all!
>
> Paul Riedlinger
> paulried(at)spyder.net
Paul, Why not download a copy of the Frank Justice manual for that
section. You can find it at www.rv.austion.apple.com. If not I have a
copy I can mail your way...
Rick
--
Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
Rick Osgood
9200 Flying Cloud Dr.
Eden Prairie, MN 55347
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Prop selection (was engine selection) |
<< Dan,
I talked to a rep from Van's at Sun'n'Fun who changed from a Pacesetter to a
Warnke. (snip)
Just wanted to let you know what the Van's Rep said and to
note that their was a significant difference between the two props on my
friends "4"
Cheers.....Dave
>>
Hello All,
I have also flown a Pacesetter and a Warnke on the Lyc. I had in my RV-3.
The Pacesetter was a better prop than three other props I had tried, but the
Warnke prop was better overall.
I bought a Warnke for the LOM engine I am now flying. But even the Warnke
prop has difficulty performing with the small 243 cu. in. displacement for
take off and climb performance (2180 RPM), and the full throttle cruise
performance at 7,500' (2770 RPM) without the supercharger engaged. (With the
supercharger engaged, I pulled the throttle when I reached 2850 RPM.)
With the Ivoprop MAGNUM electric flight adjustable prop, I can set the prop
pitch for 2700 RPM for take off and climb, I can limit full throttle cruise
at 7,500' to 2,350 RPM, or up to the 2,700 RPM redline.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Worries? (Chat) |
Elon wrote:
>But you are surly NOT going to get a certified, modern 32-valve V-8, liquid
>cooled, electronic injected, aircraft engine (with PSRU) for $10k-$15k.
I guess this makes sense, but at least there will be some healthy competition.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | david_fried(at)smtpgwy.dehavilland.ca |
| Subject: | Re: Winter Kit (chatter) |
I can't pass a posting without Peking in to see what goodies there
might be.
The winterizing thread is interesting, but we seem to be talking about
ducks. I wish it wood stop as it is making me daffy.
Somebody should take an e-racer to the subject line an put in an
appropriate title.
It is vari-eze to eat up lots of good working time on chatter.
I could be doing other useful things like wading into the web or
playing pintail on the donkey at Bethany's birthday party down the
hall.
Al Orange
mallard(at)harlequin.com
Happy Holidays to all!
:) I used spell check on this one :)
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RV-List: Winter Kit (chatter)
Date: 12/20/96 12:09 PM
Maybe the best way to keek the engine warm is to fly "down" low!
Chris May
C'mon guys, these jokes are getting really fowl!
Ken RV6A flying (non canard version)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Riedlinger" <paulried(at)spyder.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bonehead move of the year |
Thanks to everyone who replied to my confession of stupidity! I
can't believe it, but I am not the first in the group to do it! The
other offending person will remain nameless : ).
The RV-list is a great resource. In a matter of 4 hours, I received
9 responses! Needless to say, I have taken up the first person on
the offer and my problem is solved.
Happy Holidays!
Paul Riedlinger
paulried(at)spyder.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rwiebene(at)elmer.tci.com (Robert Wiebener) |
| Subject: | Re: Look out Lycoming! |
Chris Ruble wrote:
>the controlls. If you want to know what Toyota is like as far as "fun", go test
>drive one. They are a good car, and I will admit they are reliable, but fun they
>are not.
You've been driving the wrong toyotas, then. We've got a Toyota MR2 Turbo
that is a screamer and will outrun most things on the road, not to mention
out-handle. Oh yeah, and then there's the Supra Twin-Turbo that has been the
number one "fun" car to drive on most of the car mags lists. As with
all manufacturers, you get mostly average but occasionally they let the
engineers loose.
-- robert
Robert H. Wiebener, Jr. PP-ASEL | Internet: wiebener.robert(at)tcinc.com
III contractor at: | Phone-Net: (303) 267-4981
TCI (Denver, CO) | My opinions entirely.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pump Cooling |
Are there any builders out there with strong opinions regarding to benefit or
folly of shrouding the Lycoming low pressure mechanical fuel pump on a
normally aspirated engine and piping cooling air from the rear baffle to it.
How about cooling the Sigmatek Vacuum Pump? I am concerned about fuel pump
vapor lock in the thermally enhanced climates and have already shrouded and
ducted cooling air to my gascolator? Should I cool the pumps too?
Thanks in advance for your input.
Gary VanRemortel
Milpitas, CA
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Look out Lycoming! |
Oh watch out Hal, you're straying into flame teritory with that "ludite"
comment.
Chris
>
> John Top wrote:
>
> >I have not read the WSJ article yet but, I got it from a pretty good source
> >that $30,000,000 was invested certifying it.
>
> Yeah, right. $50,000 to get certification, $1,000,000 to develop the engine,
> $13,950,000 for advertising to convince the Ludites that it will work at least
> as well as what we've got now and the other $15,000,000 for legal contingencies!
>
> What I have trouble understanding is why is there so much resistance to
> manufacturers who might save us thousands of dollars on our engine purchases???
>
>
> Hal Kempthorne halk(at)netcom.com Santa Clara, CA. (SJC)
> Debonair N6134V RV-6AQ on order!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 0-320 engine |
> >> The O-320 is the smoothest engine (4 banger) that you can lean out.
The
> >> tanks on the RV's are just about right with enough range (@8 gal/hour)
> that
> >> the flight does not get uncomfortable. The O-360 does not have the
best
> >> carburetion because all 4 cylinders do not peak out at the same time
> when
> >> leaning.
> >
> >Hi Bill, quick question. I'm using a new 0320 in my 6A (It has about 30
> >hours now and I LOVE it!) and the EGT's seem a little odd. At less than
> >full throttle the EGT's run fairly close temperature wise, but at full
> >throttle (regardless of % power) the # 4 EGT runs about 1025-1050 instead
> of
> >the 1275-1375 of the other 3 cylinders. Is this normal? I assume this
has
> >something to do with the enrichening circuit kicking in, but why just the
> one
> >cylinder?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Ed Bundy RV6A flying
> >Eagle, ID
> >ebundy2620(at)aol.com
>
Ed, I would guess that the #4 is getting a considerable amount of the fuel
being provided by the enrichening circuit. On most of the data that I have
collected, I have been at full throttle and at or above 8000', because
this gives me a known position of one of the controls. My data indicates
hat the #4 runs cooler also. It is probably just the way that the air and
fuel mix in the carb. With the throttle at partial, the throttle plate is
probably causing some turbulence, allowing better mixing to take place.
Anyone have another idea? Bill.
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV
Over 1000 RV hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Winter Kit (chatter) |
If he flew "down" low everyone "WOOD DUCK" !
Chris May
RV-4 N595CM
________________________________________________________________________________
> << Is the kit complete? Not counting things not included such as paint,
>interior,
> engine, etc., can a complete airframe be built or are a bunch of options
> needed to complete it?>>
>
>>>>>>>>>There are lots of additional things you will need to get to complete a
>flyable plane.<<<<<<<<<<
Name one or two. If you had said 'you may want to add' I would agree with
you, but in my opinion you get what they say you need other than engine,
instruments, and comm stuff. I can't think of any 'options' that are
required to get the plane flying.
>
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lm4(at)juno.com (Larry Mac Donald) |
| From: | cmonk(at)greeceny.com (Charyll Monk) |
Another bit of Christmas Cheer. Hope you enjoy. I just wonder who has
the time to think all these things up.
The yearly analysis of Santa's trip:
1) No known species of reindeer can fly. BUT there are 300,000 species of
living organisms yet to be classified, and while most of these are
insects and germs, this does not COMPLETELY rule out flying reindeer
which only Santa has ever seen.
2) There are 2 billion children (persons under 18) in the world. BUT
since
Santa doesn't (appear) to handle the Muslim, Hindu, Jewish and Buddhist
children, that reduces the workload to 15% of the total - 378 million
according to Population Reference Bureau. At an average (census) rate of
3.5 children per household, that's 91.8 million homes. One presumes
there's at least one good child in each.
3) Santa has 31 hours of Christmas to work with, thanks to the different
time zones and the rotation of the earth, assuming he travels east to
west (which seems logical). This works out to 822.6 visits per second.
This is to say that for each Christian household with good children,
Santa has
1/1000th of a second to park, hop out of the sleigh, jump down the
chimney, fill the stockings, distribute the remaining presents under the
tree, eat whatever snacks have been left, get back up the chimney, get
back into the sleigh and move on to the next house. Assuming that each
of these 91.8 million stops are evenly distributed around the earth
(which, of course, we know to be false but for the purposes of our
calculations we will accept), we are now talking about 0.78 miles per
household, a total trip of 71.604 million miles, not counting stops to
do what most of us must do at least once every 31 hours, plus feeding
etc. This means that Santa's sleigh is moving at 650 miles per second,
3,000 times the speed of sound. For purposes of comparison, the fastest
man-made vehicle on earth, the Ulysses space probe, moves at a poky 27.4
miles per second - a conventional reindeer can run, tops, 15 miles per
hour.
4) The payload on the sleigh adds another interesting element. Assuming
that each child gets nothing more than a medium-sized lego set (2
pounds), the sleigh is carrying 321,300 tons, not counting Santa, who is
invariably described as overweight. On land, conventional reindeer can
pull no more than 300 pounds. Even granting that "flying reindeer" (see
point #1) could pull TEN TIMES the normal amount, we cannot do the job
with eight, or even nine. We need 214,200 reindeer. This increases the
payload - not even counting the weight of the sleigh - to 353,430 tons.
Again, for comparison this is four times the weight of the Queen
Elizabeth.
5) 353,000 tons traveling at 650 miles per second creates enormous air
resistance - this will heat the reindeer up in the same fashion as
spacecrafts re-entering the earth's atmosphere. The lead pair of reindeer
will absorb 14.3 QUINTILLION joules of energy per second each. In short,
they will burst into flame almost instantaneously, exposing the reindeer
behind them, and create deafening sonic booms in their wake. The entire
reindeer team will be vaporized within 4.26 thousandths of a second.
Santa, meanwhile, will be subjected to centrifugal forces 17,500.06 times
greater than gravity. A 250-pound Santa (which seems ludicrously slim)
would be pinned to the back of his sleigh by 4,315,015 pounds of force.
In conclusion - If Santa ever DID deliver presents on Christmas Eve, he's
dead now.
Ho-Ho-Ho, Merry Christmas
-----------------------------------------------------
C. Monk, Underwriting and Development Manager
e-mail: cmonk(at)greeceny.com
Look for WGMC 90.1 FM Web site at
http://www.greeceny.com/wgmc/radio.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Murphy, Jr." <murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilot Height Difference... |
Cliff Goldman of Bandon, OR is 6'3" and his wife (working on her license) is
only 5'2". What he has done is to move the seat as far forward as possible
and then added removable extension blocks to the rudder pedals and brakes.
Snip
>To all listers in the mid 5' range, or having experience with passengers of
>this height, can the seat back be moved far enough forward to accommodate?
>How about seeing out the windshield? Ability to reach the relocated rudder
>pedals?
>
>Until I'm able to start on the fuselage, I'm looking for ideas to
>accommodate the height difference. A pair of 5" thick fashionable wooden
>clogs have already been mentioned....
>
>Thanks,
>
>Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q project:
>http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker
>(last update 12/4/96 - flight in OMABP V6 RV-6)
>
>
Nancy & Ray Murphy, Jr.
murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us
RV-6A empennage
North Bend, Oregon
541-756-7230
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Lycoming ADs and service bulletins |
Is there such thing as a mailing list from Lycoming, from which they would
send me copies of ADs and service bulletins as they are issued? How do I get
on it? If not, what is the best way to keep current on such matters?
Andy Gold
RV6A (engine mounted, fitting cowl)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | sale or trade: 28 volt alternator and starter |
I have a 28 volt Electrosystems alternator and a 24 volt Electrosystems
starter that came with my Lycoming 0-360 engine. I would like to replace
these with a 12 volt system.
The starter has been yellow tagged on 3/3/94 and has 7 hours of use since
installation.
The alternator has been factory overhauled on 8/1/94 and has 790 hours of use
since.
I would be happy to make an even trade for a 12 volt model or I would sell
them outright for $200 for the alternator or $350 for the starter.
Please e-mail back or call at 505 865-3466
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pump Cooling |
>Are there any builders out there with strong opinions regarding to benefit or
>folly of shrouding the Lycoming low pressure mechanical fuel pump on a
>normally aspirated engine and piping cooling air from the rear baffle to it.
> How about cooling the Sigmatek Vacuum Pump? I am concerned about fuel pump
>vapor lock in the thermally enhanced climates and have already shrouded and
>ducted cooling air to my gascolator? Should I cool the pumps too?
>Gary VanRemortel Milpitas, CA vanremog(at)aol.com
Gary, I put a mechanical pump shroud on my 150 hp. I think this is pretty
standard practice on low wings and the Cherokee 140 I parted out had the
shroud, so I used it. I also ran air to a shroud that I built around my
gascolator. In 350 hours of operation, I have not had any vapor lock
problems. I don't have any opinion on the vacuum pump cooling. I'm running
the pump that was on the engine when I bought the wrecked 140 and so far so
good.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: newsletter subscription |
Jim;
I will snail mail a check in the amount of $15 for 95 & 96 back
issues , plus subscription for 97.
Steve Schmitz
3136 Howry St.
LaCrosse Wi. 54603
RV4 - 202ss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
Mark LaBoyteaux writes:
> I don't know about Military type aircraft, but on all of our commercial
> aircraft that
> American Airlines uses, the pitot-static heaters run on a low wattage
> heater on the ground, and when the air-ground switches on the landing
> gear make on take-off, they switch to a high wattage mode. This also
> applies to the heated drain masts, aoa vanes,
> and air temp probes. As for how long they last, the only time I've ever
> had to change one, it was because it was damaged by ground equipment.
> Mark LaBoyteaux
> tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com
Yes, that's exactly how all the planes I've flown work. Admittedly, the
circuitry to do that is probably overkill on a light aircraft, but I
can't see any reason for flying without the pitot heat on.
^^^^^^
Tedd McHenry
tedd(at)idacomg.hp.com
(RV-6, plans only)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FLAP MOTOR REPLACEMENT |
>Could someone please update the list on the situation with the flap
>motor return situation with Van's.
>Being in Canada makes moving stuff across the border a pain!
>
>Thanks
>
>Ken
>RV6A flying with Electric Flaps
Ken, The situation is more complex with internationals, but the situation
goes like so:
1: Call and get your name on the list and when a flap motor is available,
we will send you one and you return yours to us. The sequence may take some
time. Maybe a year before we can circulate through everyone. However,
there has never been a failure that we are aware of. This is a precaution.
Using this plan, we will not require you to ground your plane until
whenever. The factory can only rebuild about 5 a week.
2: Call and get a return authorization number. Return your unit for repairs
and we will send you either a reconditioned unit or if you want yours back,
mark it with your name and we will cycle your units through.
If you have not drilled the hole in the end, get a return authorization
number and return the unit to us. These can be used on RV-4 flaps, and we
will not have to order a -4 motor for the -4 flap kits.
Please bear with us. We do not want to ground any flying aircraft. We are
trying to be fair, although it may not seem that way at times. Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV
Over 1000 RV hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
> I'm athe point of left wing construction where I need to mount my heated
> pitot tube that I purchased from A'craft Spruce. If I mount it aft of the
> main spar and outboard of the bell cranck access panel I believe that it
> counld possible interfere with tie down. Does anyone have experience with
> this proble. How about possible solutions from those that have mounted a
> heated pitot tube
>
> Jerry Walker
> RV-6
Jerry,
Following some advice I read here last week, I moved the tie down bracket
outboard about 10" on my quickbuild's left wing so the tiedown would miss my
heated pitot static tube. It was pretty easy. The tiedown bracket's bottom
bolt, where it penetrates the spar, had to be moved up a couple of inches or
so to miss a tapering spar reinforcement piece. No big deal -- 2 minutes and
a drill press.
Anyway, then I cut some small aluminum circles (just small enough to fill the
old tiedown hook hole), epoxied them together with a small backing plate, and
epoxied the whole thing over the hole left from the old tiedown bracket
location. The whole operation took about 3 hours. I'm glad I did it.
By the way, it took me 51 hours to build the rudder (including the time to
make the forming blocks and make the top and bottom rudder ribs). Is this a
lot more time than others are spending on their rudder? I feel like I'm
taking a long time, but if I go faster I make mistakes.
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ #60023
CapnTim(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-320 engine |
>Ed, I would guess that the #4 is getting a considerable amount of the fuel
>being provided by the enrichening circuit. On most of the data that I have
>collected, I have been at full throttle and at or above 8000', because
>this gives me a known position of one of the controls. My data indicates
>hat the #4 runs cooler also. It is probably just the way that the air and
>fuel mix in the carb. With the throttle at partial, the throttle plate is
>probably causing some turbulence, allowing better mixing to take place.
>Anyone have another idea? Bill.
>Bill
>RV-4-180 soon. N894RV
>Over 1000 RV hours.
On my 150 hp RV-6, my EGTs are uneven at anything less than full throttle.
Cylinders 1 & 2 run much cooler at reduced throttle settings as do the CHTs.
At full throttle at 7,500 + the CHTs even out running 325-350 degrees and
the EGTs are even (no numeric representation--I have the GEM and EGTs are
represented by bars.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dann_Parks(at)KTEH.pbs.org (Dann Parks) |
| Subject: | Gross weight and baggage |
Has anyone heard more about the mention in the RVator about increasing the GW
of the RV6. I'd like to be able to carry two foldup bikes (30# each) and 20#
of clothes and stuff. The clothes could go in a duffle under our legs if
necessary and I would even be willing to leave a bike in there all the time
for ballast. I have not made an engine/prop decision, but the baggage
capability is very important to enjoying trips. The wife and I total 320# so
it's not as much a weight issue as a balance issue with a O-320/wood prop --
although I would like to use the 0-360/cs.
What have you folks been carrying in the real world? And what about the W/B
issues of carring baggage. I hear a few stories about over grossing and tail
heavy landings at the end of a trip when tanks are empty. What are your
equipment placement and setup recommendations for maximum baggage carrying?
Thanks all,
Dann Parks
Sunnyvale, CA
6A empenage under construction
dann_parks(at)kteh.pbs.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: newsletter subscription |
The back issues will go out tomorrow.
Jim
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< >>>>>>>>>There are lots of additional things you will need to get to
complete a
>flyable plane.<<<<<<<<<<
Name one or two. If you had said 'you may want to add' I would agree with
you, but in my opinion you get what they say you need other than engine,
instruments, and comm stuff. I can't think of any 'options' that are
required to get the plane flying. >>
Firewall Insulation, Boost Pump, Epoxy, Microballoons, Glass Cloth, Lead
Counterweights, various nutplates and fasteners, Plumbing Fittings, Adel
clamps, Grommets, Firewall shields, some welding, etc. But, hey, maybe the
kits have gotten better in the 4 yrs since I bought.
Now I do suppose these could be considered mere luxuries to some. The truth
is ACS, Wicks and Van's got more than a few thousand of my bucks for all
these little "luxuries". I'm not complaining, just telling it like it is.
There are lots of little things.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming ADs and service bulletins |
<< Is there such thing as a mailing list from Lycoming, from which they would
send me copies of ADs and service bulletins as they are issued? How do I get
on it? If not, what is the best way to keep current on such matters? >>
To the best of my knowledge, ADs, SBs and other maintenance documents are
sold as a package deal by Lycoming for around $80 and future updates are by
yearly subscription. Call Lycoming order line at 717-323-6181 or fax your
order to 717-327-7101.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Quick-Build Unload |
Thanks for all of your inputs on the methods of unloading
crates...after carefully weighing all options, i decided on the following
option:
Roadway Xpress was told to give me all the notice possible on
delivery time...secondly, i had arranged for a car hauler to be present when
the truck arrived...the operator slid the crates, one at a time to the car
hauler and precisely manuevered each into my garage without anyone touching
the crates...my friend and I took pictures and drank coffee...total cost:
$25.00..
John Lucas - de-crating
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dieck(at)apexcomm.net (Robert Dieck) |
| Subject: | Re: Look out Lycoming! |
>
><< Yes the MOONEY PFM did fail. Both the right and wrong airframe at the same
> time. How can this be? Take a fast clean design give it an engine that has
>only one engine control (not enough Toys to play with), liquid cooling and
> sounds like a P51 >>
>
>The PFM (Porsche Flug Motor) was air cooled and infact had two electronic
>fans to insure that the heads were kept at the correct tempeture in the tight
>Mooney cowl.
>
>Truth be known, the PFM was a great motor but a bit underpowered for its
>weight (217 hp). Porsche could have made the engine more powerful via
>turbocharging had the engine met the market with some success. Features of
>the engine included fuel injection, duel alternators, single lever power
>controls and an excelllent reputation for quality.
>
>The engine became heavy when the FAA "helped" Porsche re-engineer the engine
>to be just like a Continental/Lycoming.
>
>It was not the guns that killed Kong, it was the FAA.
>
>Gary Corde
>RV-6 n211GC, NJ
>
>
I stand corrected (Brain fade), the PFM was fan cooled. I remember standin
on the ramp at Kerville duing a high speed pass thinking what a great sound
it made. From what I've heard the guys that bought them were pleased with them.
Bob
The Airplane Factory
Robert/Tammie Dieck
Wausau WI USA
dieck(at)apexcomm.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming ADs and service bulletins |
>Is there such thing as a mailing list from Lycoming, from which they would
>send me copies of ADs and service bulletins as they are issued? How do I get
>on it? If not, what is the best way to keep current on such matters?
>
>Andy Gold
>RV6A (engine mounted, fitting cowl)
>
Andy:
Tell lycoming you have a specific engine and you should get the service letters.
Once you register with the feds you WILL get the AD's.
If you want to check a specific model, find a friendly A&P,IA that suscribes
to the Avantex Airwothiness Directive service that comes out on compact disk.
It lists every AD that ever was in cronolgical order by engine or airframe.
It has a great search engine and even has all of the STC's ever issued. A
great tool. I just happen to have a copy in my computer right now so if you
want I'll list them for you. Then you can look them up. (Each one tends to
be long so please don't ask me to type the whole thing, I'd never get them
done!!!!!)
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
RV-4 N47RG Flying 2 1/2 years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pump Cooling |
Gary, I was told by an engeneer that by cooling your fuel pump with a shroud
and air, you would be lucky to drop your fuel temp 4 to 8 degF. I personally
run an Ellison throttle body with a gascolator. The Ellison is supposed to be
highly suseptable to vapor lock. I run no cooling lines to my gascolator or
fuel pump and have had no problems. Once and a while on a hot summer day
after I have flown, parked the airplane, and its had a chance to heat soak I
will have a slight case of vapor lock and have to run the boost pump on the
ground for a few minuets while taxiing to clear it. shrouding my fuel pump or
my gascolator will definatly not cure that, as it is a heat soaking problem
once on the ground. If shrouding is what you feel comfortable with you should
do it. I personally dont think its worth the time or effort. My airplane is
now approaching 3 years flying and 400hrs in all types of climates. Ryan
Bendure RV4131RB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
>Mark LaBoyteaux writes:
>> I don't know about Military type aircraft, but on all of our commercial
>> aircraft that
>> American Airlines uses, the pitot-static heaters run on a low wattage
>> heater on the ground, and when the air-ground switches on the landing
>> gear make on take-off, they switch to a high wattage mode. This also
>> applies to the heated drain masts, aoa vanes,
>> and air temp probes. As for how long they last, the only time I've ever
>> had to change one, it was because it was damaged by ground equipment.
>> Mark LaBoyteaux
>> tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com
>
>Yes, that's exactly how all the planes I've flown work. Admittedly, the
>circuitry to do that is probably overkill on a light aircraft, but I
>can't see any reason for flying without the pitot heat on.
> ^^^^^^
>
>Tedd McHenry
>tedd(at)idacomg.hp.com
>(RV-6, plans only)
>
On light aircraft, especially RV's, we use a small alternator in order to
keep the cowling from rubbing on the alternator (big alternator, big
problem, little alternator, little or no problem). The small alternator
most of us use is only a 35 amp alternator. I don't know how much current
the pitot tube consumes, but I could guess that it is a significant (25%)
part of that 35 amps. With strobes, nav lights, landing light, instrument
panel and radios, the 35 amp alt can keep up with the load. When you press
the push to talk, you have exceeded its capacity and the battery is now in
a discharge mode until you finish your transmission. Sooooo, if you use
pitot heat, better look for a 55 amp or larger alternator, and plan on
putting a blister on the cowl to provide the extra space.
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV
Over 1000 RV hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ron.taborek(at)flight642.com (RON TABOREK) |
As Ken mentioned earlier it is my understanding that carb heat is
required on all aircraft in Canada and the local inspectors insist on it
in RVs.
If my memory serves me right, an RV-3 was lost making an approach over
water in winter to a local airport here. He was unable to get enough
power to correct an undershoot and the aircraft went in. This is my
memory of the incident not any official finding.
Ron Taborek RV-4 Installing Engine Toronto ron.taborek(at)flight642.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 0-320 accessory case |
| From: | ron.taborek(at)flight642.com (RON TABOREK) |
-> oil, all over the windscreen. Some poeple have used other ports to
-> measure oil pressure, but the readings will vary depending on which
-> port is used.
Bill, your Email of 12-16-96 to the list mentions measuring oil pressure
at other ports on the O-320. While I have finally figured out how to
get a fitting into the normal location, thanks to advice from the list,
I am still curious as to what levels are read at these other ports. Do
you happen to have the numbers? If all else fails My curiosity may
drive me to use my own gauge, which reads to 150 psi, to find out, when
My aircraft is running.
Ron Taborek RV-4 Installing Engine Toronto ron.taborek(at)flight642.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pump Cooling |
> How about cooling the Sigmatek Vacuum Pump? I am concerned about fuel pump
> vapor lock in the thermally enhanced climates and have already shrouded
and
> ducted cooling air to my gascolator? Should I cool the pumps too?
>
I ran a cooling hose to everything. Alternator, both mags, gascolator, and
fuel pump. I probably would run one to the vacuum pump if I had one. I
don't think it's necessary to shroud any of them, as a 3/4" tube from the
high pressure area of the cowl moves a lot of air. If you still had problems
you could shroud them if necessary.
Here in SW Idaho, we have not had too much trouble with vapor lock
recently... :)
________________________________________________________________________________
GV;
>Firewall Insulation, optional
>Boost Pump, was included in my kit (#20142)
>Epoxy, Microballoons, Glass Cloth, optional
>Lead>Counterweights, free by scrounging
>various nutplates and fasteners, Plumbing Fittings, Adel
>clamps, Grommets, all included up to the firewall
>Firewall shields, don't know what this is!
>some welding, none needed in my kit
>
>Now I do suppose these could be considered mere luxuries to some. The truth
>is ACS, Wicks and Van's got more than a few thousand of my bucks for all
>these little "luxuries". I'm not complaining, just telling it like it is.
> There are lots of little things.
Now I agree with you here. I put many options on my kit, but they weren't
needed to complete a flying plane. I considered the seat cushions as the
most NEEDED option. Even the radio is not a REQUIREMENT, but damn sure nice
to have if you are going many places.
Let me admit, I get my feathers ruffled with some of the statements such
as 'you can't build the kit with out >>put in some high dollar tool, paint
scheme, engine, c/s prop, heated pitot tube, multi strobe lights that blink
out Merry Christmas,etc, etc.<<.'
I hope you don't take it that I have 'flamed' you on this, because I
don't mean to. But I've talked to some would be builders that have been
turned off by some comments like this, and I've tried to be honest with them
as to what is a must have and what is nice to have and what is to me pure
luxury, then let them decide. Some few have changed their mind, others must
think that I am one cheap SOB.
Oh hell, I'll get off of my soap box now.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MiDiBu <midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | heated pitot tubes, reliability |
I've been following the discussion about using a heated pitot on an RV.
I would like to add my $0.02.
My concern came from the comment that the Canadians turn them on, on every
flight. Fine. It gets above freezing about 3 months of the year there.
The pitot will draw between 10 and 15 amps when turned on. That's quite a
bit of current. You should use a minimum of 12 guage wire.
It's been my experience that the pitot heater doesn't fail. It's easy to
check. You can see a measurable change on the ampmeter when you turn it on.
If you dare, turn the heat on before your pre-flight. Touch it after it
heats up (lightly, like you would test an iron, they get HOT).
But what will fail, when you least want a failure, is the
generator/alternator. I'm snake-bit about that. A very memorable flight
included a generator failure that happened about 15 minutes after I turned
on the pitot heat because we were in clouds that were sticking to the wings
of my Mooney. Lightly, but when the generator failed, there was no choice
but to go down and cancel IFR.
I still feel that, with my experience with that airplane, the extra drain on
the generator that was inflicted by the heated pitot caused the generator to
overload.
My point is that the heated pitot is a good thing to have. You can fly the
airplane with needle, ball, altimeter, and airspeed. You really don't want
to lose the airspeed part of that equation. Just be sure that you've added
that significantly extra margin to your electrical system to use the thing.
Mike Weller RV 80187 (under construction)
midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com (preferred) or mike.weller(at)msfc.nasa.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
Ron,
Are you drilling a new vent line in your mechanical fuel pump?
I did mine as per news letter instructions using a small vacuum to suck out
filings.
My fuel pump began fluctuating pressure after 30 hours. I took the pump apart
and found filings in the vent area as well as in the vent port that runs
between the top and bottom housing on either side of the diaphrams. This port
was getting clogged up with the filings and causing a pressure variation from
6 to 1 pound. the vent port is only about .010" or so. No problems since
cleaning out the filings and reassembly. Caution must be taken to insure the
vent port remains in line with the housing ports. If you have any questions
E-Mail me @ N595CM(at)aol.com.
Chris May
RV-4 N595CM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Physical Size |
<< Sooooo, if you use
pitot heat, better look for a 55 amp or larger alternator, and plan on
putting a blister on the cowl to provide the extra space.
Bill >>
Bill-
First of all, let me say that it is a pleasure to have you and Andy Hanna
participating on the RV-List. It is good to know that we have an inside
track to Van's. I'm sure this will help us all.
I believe that the B&C 60A alternator has a smaller physical outline and
rounder edges than the 35A that you mentioned. It's a first class unit but
it is much more expensive and probably slightly heavier than the 35A.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
> By the way, it took me 51 hours to build the rudder (including the time to
> make the forming blocks and make the top and bottom rudder ribs). Is this
a
> lot more time than others are spending on their rudder? I feel like I'm
> taking a long time, but if I go faster I make mistakes.
I spent about 28 hours on the rudder. Most builders I know spent less. I
too wanted to know how fast other folks went, but it seemed that this
knowledge made me tend to rush and screw things up. Go slow and get there
faster.
Rick McBride posted a time table of the times it took him for each component
of the airplane. I used it as a very loose "guide" and found that I
completed my items a little slower in the beginning, and a little faster
toward the end. It was helpful to look at an item and have a gerneral idea
of how long it would take. I'm pretty sure this is in the archives.
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Physical Size |
<< << Sooooo, if you use
pitot heat, better look for a 55 amp or larger alternator, and plan on
putting a blister on the cowl to provide the extra space.
Bill >>
Bill-
First of all, let me say that it is a pleasure to have you and Andy Hanna
participating on the RV-List. It is good to know that we have an inside
track to Van's. I'm sure this will help us all.
I believe that the B&C 60A alternator has a smaller physical outline and
rounder edges than the 35A that you mentioned. It's a first class unit but
it is much more expensive and probably slightly heavier than the 35A.
-GV
>>
Bill
I have a B&C 60A Alt on my O-320 B2B Narrow Deck engine. This engine was
converted to Constant Speed operation and the B&C 60A fits with out cowl
modification. This engine uses the case mount bracket and not the Boss mount
used on the newer engine. This was the 3rd alternator that I tried. It was
also the lightest and highest quality.
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 N157GS 20480
AeroSPACE Electrical Engineeer. (ie.: satellite systems)
EAA Tech Counselor
FAA Powerplant licensed Mechanic
Signed off to take the FAA Airframe test.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Quickbuild rudder time... |
Tim,
It took me 55 hours to complete the rudder, so you were quicker ?
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q Project:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker
(last updated 12/4/96)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
>I spent about 28 hours on the rudder. Most builders I know spent less. I
>
>Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Was that the pre-punched tail with all the ribs pre-formed?
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q Project:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker
(last updated 12/4/96)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wcain(at)edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu (William E. Cain) |
unscribe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dana Breda <rv6av8r(at)ols.net> |
Hi list,
The brake pads on my -6 are getting thin & I want to order new ones (stock
brakes on 5" wheels shipped with the kit).
Nothing in the construction manual or the info that came with the brakes
gives a part number for the brakes or the pads, and I can't figure it out
which pad I need from the Aircraft Spruce catalog.
Anyone know a Cleveland stock number for the pads?
Dana Breda
N138DB in NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Winter Kit (chatter) |
| From: | ab6a(at)juno.com (ALLAN E POMEROY) |
I can't resist putting my $.02 worth in to this. I just hope no one ends
up in duck soup because of all this quackery. Please hold the quackers.
Allan Pomeroy
Riveting HS for 6A
>If he flew "down" low everyone "WOOD DUCK" !
>Chris May
>RV-4 N595CM
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
>Ron,
>Are you drilling a new vent line in your mechanical fuel pump?
>I did mine as per news letter instructions using a small vacuum to suck out
>filings.
>My fuel pump began fluctuating pressure after 30 hours. I took the pump apart
>and found filings in the vent area as well as in the vent port that runs
>between the top and bottom housing on either side of the diaphrams. This port
>was getting clogged up with the filings and causing a pressure variation from
>6 to 1 pound. the vent port is only about .010" or so. No problems since
>cleaning out the filings and reassembly. Caution must be taken to insure the
>vent port remains in line with the housing ports. If you have any questions
>E-Mail me @ N595CM(at)aol.com.
>Chris May
>RV-4 N595CM
>
Ron and Chris, The fuel pump Van's offers for the -4 has been modified by a
qualified shop to rotate the vent port away from the firewall. In
discussions with him (the shop mgr, I don't remember the name of the
facility), I mentioned that some builders open the pumps to work on them
and he just about hit the floor. He claims the diaphragm needs to be
stretched before the parts are put together. So, ....beware. The pump
Van's has is expensive and I think the shop is taking advantage of the
situation. The good news is we have a little fitting (PN OVERFLOW PLUG 1/8"
$6.75) that will fit in a stock pump and just misses the firewall. Bill.
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV
Over 1000 RV hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-320 accessory case |
>-> oil, all over the windscreen. Some poeple have used other ports to
>-> measure oil pressure, but the readings will vary depending on which
>-> port is used.
>
>Bill, your Email of 12-16-96 to the list mentions measuring oil pressure
>at other ports on the O-320. While I have finally figured out how to
>get a fitting into the normal location, thanks to advice from the list,
>I am still curious as to what levels are read at these other ports. Do
>you happen to have the numbers? If all else fails My curiosity may
>drive me to use my own gauge, which reads to 150 psi, to find out, when
>My aircraft is running.
>
>Ron Taborek RV-4 Installing Engine Toronto ron.taborek(at)flight642.com
>
Ron, I do not know how they read other than Ken Scott initially used one of
the ports on the top side of the engine and had a lower pressure. Thinking
he had a problem with low pressure, he sweated for a while until the
problem was resolved. If you take measurements, pass them along to us and
we will file it with our engine data for future reference. Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV
Over 1000 RV hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rv-6 Brake pads |
Dana Breda wrote:
>
> Hi list,
>
> The brake pads on my -6 are getting thin & I want to order new ones (stock
> brakes on 5" wheels shipped with the kit).
>
> Nothing in the construction manual or the info that came with the brakes
> gives a part number for the brakes or the pads, and I can't figure it out
> which pad I need from the Aircraft Spruce catalog.
>
> Anyone know a Cleveland stock number for the pads?
>
> Dana Breda
> N138DB in NC
Dana
You need Cleveland # 66-106
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Dana Breda wrote:
> Hi list,
>
> The brake pads on my -6 are getting thin & I want to order new ones (stock
> brakes on 5" wheels shipped with the kit).
>
> Nothing in the construction manual or the info that came with the brakes
> gives a part number for the brakes or the pads, and I can't figure it out
> which pad I need from the Aircraft Spruce catalog.
>
> Anyone know a Cleveland stock number for the pads?
> >
> Dana Breda
> N138DB in NC
>
Dana
You need Cleveland # 66-106
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
Ron Taborek writes:
As Ken mentioned earlier it is my understanding that carb heat is
required on all aircraft in Canada and the local inspectors insist on it
in RVs.
If my memory serves me right, an RV-3 was lost making an approach over
water in winter to a local airport here. He was unable to get enough
power to correct an undershoot and the aircraft went in. This is my
memory of the incident not any official finding.
Actually Ron, my inspector didn't insist on carb heat, but he did
insist on a source of alternate air which is completely different to
carb heat.
Alt air has to bypass the filter in the event that the filter becomes
blocked. If I'd had carb heat he would not have asked for the alt air.
I actually had the carb heat door and cable but no source of hot air
from a heat muff.
Silly me really, because I pointed this out to him, considering that
for an injected engine it would be ok and I was sort of making
conversation during the inspection. Once Id done that though there was
no going back.
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rv-6 Brake pads |
Avery's have the pads you need and a set of dies that goes in there rivet
dimple tool or hand squeezer to set the new rivets....Geoprge Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rv-6 Brake pads |
<< Avery's have the pads you need and a set of dies that goes in there rivet
dimple tool or hand squeezer to set the new rivets....Geoprge Orndorff >>
George:
Is this a kit? Sounds like a good idea! How much?
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
<< The good news is we have a little fitting (PN OVERFLOW PLUG 1/8"
$6.75) that will fit in a stock pump and just misses the firewall. Bill.
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV
Over 1000 RV hours. >>
Bill:
Can this part be installed on an assembled a/c, or is it like the oil press
fitting?
Good to have you answering questions on the list!
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
This Alternate air thing is for real,,, On September 21,1996 I was asked
to cut a crepe(sp) paper ribbon with my airplane, a one of a kind Cassutt
type with a high hp angle valve 0-290 and an Ellison TBI. I was never
concerned about ice, because the block can be slid out and knock the ice
off and keep on going. beside the Ellison has very little venturi effect
to lower the air temp. It had no alternate air. My plan for the ribbon
was to fly under the ribbon and cut it with the prop, canopy or vertical
stab. Approaching the ribbon at 220 mph I could not see it so I set up on
the poles. The ribbon was sagging and when I saw it was going under the
spinner it was too late to adjust my altitude. The FAA attributed the
engine failure to momentary fuel starvation, i.e. vapor lock or flop tube.
I am cool with that, but I'll bet if I had alternate air I would have flown
around and landed. Instead I landed (sort of) in a soybean field at 90
plus mph and really tore up my little airplane, and me a little bit. My
next airplane, will land at less than 100 mph and will have alternate
air..
Looking for an -4
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal Dougr(at)netins.net
http://www.netconx.net/petroblend/dougr (There is a picture of it here.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)Op.Net> |
Well, t'was the night before Christmas and Santa was loading up his
sleigh. Hidden in the shadow was an FAA inspector. He popped out and told
Santa that he was going to have to conduct a ramp check before departure
since this flight was to pass through US Federal Air Space. The FAA guy
checked the Communications system(sleigh bells), the Nav lights
(Rudolph's flashing red nose), Landing gear (the runners were well
polished), and all the paperwork seemed OK,
except...Santa was
not current. So, the FAA examiner told Santa to
hand over his license. This was to be an Emergency Revocation. Santa
pleaded, and the FAA guy gave in and said "OK, but I'll have to give you
a Checkride immediately. Santa hopped into the sleigh and the FAA guy
slid in next to him. Santa looked over to make sure the FAA examiner's
belts were secure and saw an Uzi machine gun tucked inside the examiner's
snow suit. Santa, tried to squawk 7500, but the examiner grabbed his hand
and said "let's go." Santa looked over and said "wwwwwhats the gun for?"
The examiner replied in a whisper, "I'm not supposed to tell you this,
but we're going to lose an engine on take off."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:RV-4 Fuel pump |
>
><< The good news is we have a little fitting (PN OVERFLOW PLUG 1/8"
> $6.75) that will fit in a stock pump and just misses the firewall. Bill.
> Bill
> RV-4-180 soon. N894RV
> Over 1000 RV hours. >>
> Bill:
>
>Can this part be installed on an assembled a/c, or is it like the oil press
>fitting?
>
>Check six!
>Mark
>
Mark, Kinda.... The fuel pump needs to be removed, but that only takes
about five minutes. I put it on my four with no trouble and another local
put it on his with no problem. I have not flown it yet, as I am not using
my old baffeling and the new one is taking a while to implement.
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV
Over 1000 RV hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
> >I spent about 28 hours on the rudder. Most builders I know spent less. I
> Was that the pre-punched tail with all the ribs pre-formed?
No, I had the "old fashioned" kit that you actually had to *build*.
The ribs were fairly easy to form. I made one, and used it as a template
to mark the angle-cut and the hole pattern on the others. Once you get into
a groove, they go pretty fast.
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Save Money Calling Van's Aircraft |
Hello Fellow RV'rs.
I know that in the course of building your RV that you will no doubt call
Van's for Builder Assistance. I know that in the 4 years it took me to build
my RV-6 that I must have called a zillon times.
If you would like to keep your phone bill down, and possibly even make
some money to by more RV Stuff, then you might want to check out My Home Page
at:
http://www.angelfire.com/ga/LowRates/index.html
This URL is case sensitive, so the easiest way to get there is to
highlight the address and copy it.
Feel free to E-Mail me if you have any questions ; RV6DD(at)aol.com
Start saving money now on those long distance calls to Van's and
everywhere else you call long distance.
Thanks,
Dave, RV-6, Completed, Flew, Sold (for a large profit), and getting ready
to do it again.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Fritz <75303.1623(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: FAA IS AT AGAIN |
That's sick!
(I loved it!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
| Subject: | Re: sale or trade: 28 volt alternator and starter |
>>I have a 28 volt Electrosystems alternator and a 24 volt Electrosystems
>>starter that came with my Lycoming 0-360 engine. I would like to =
replace
>>these with a 12 volt system.
>>Andy
>>
Why not use them? 28 "jolts" spins the motor better and you already
got them! You could use two smaller batteries to make the weight
difference negligable. This is a "split" buss ssystem where you use
the 1st battery for your 12 volt accessories and the other connected
in series make it 28 volts. @ 12's is far cheaper than 1 28, too! I
have this system in my plane and it's great!
bj Nash
AIRCRAFT REMANUFACTURING=20
VISTA, CA. 92084 (619) 749 0239 FAX: 749 6384
Sales Directory: Infobot(at)pdsig.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Flange Angles, build times |
Reading through "16 Years of the RVator" I noticed the article on page 44
entitled "Check Those FLange Angles". The basic idea is that if a flange
angle isn't quite right the skin contour will be messed up. A great example
is the wing top skin at and aft of the rear spar. If the flange angle is a
little off the 3" of wing skin that extends behind the rear spar will not
follow the intended contour of the wing. The fix (assuming one has already
riveted the skin to the rear spar) is to use a notched 2 x 4 to try to bend
the flange to the correct angle.
On my quickbuild the flange needed to be bent a bit on both wings, both in
the area built by the factory and in the area where I installed the top skin.
Bending with the 2 x 4 works, but I found it tends to leave a skin crease
right at the flange on the .025 outboard wing skings.
One can avoid all this, I suppose, by bending the flange with a hand seamer
prior to riveting. So check those flange angles before final riveting.
Ed Bundy said:
>Rick McBride posted a time table of the times it took him for each
>component of the airplane. I used it as a very loose "guide" and
>found that I completed my items a little slower in the beginning, and a
> little faster toward the end. It was helpful to look at an item and have
>a gerneral idea of how long it would take. I'm pretty sure this is in
>the archives.
I couldn't find that post. Does anyone have the information?
Thanks,
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ
CapnTim(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
>
>> Was that the pre-punched tail with all the ribs pre-formed?
>
>No, I had the "old fashioned" kit that you actually had to *build*.
>
>Ed Bundy RV6A flying
The quickbuild rudder is *very* basic and there is lots of building
involved. No preformed/machined parts except for the undrilled spar and
skin....everything else must be fabricated from stock material.
>>> The ribs were fairly easy to form. I made one, and used it as a template
>to mark the angle-cut and the hole pattern on the others. Once you get into
>a groove, they go pretty fast.<<
I think this refers to the stiffeners, which were indeed quick. The time
consumers were cutting and forming the top and bottom ribs, spar
reinforcement plates, and rudder horns/braces from stock (and making forming
blocks, hammering, trimming flanges to size, etc.).
No matter how long it takes....I hear its worth it .
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q Project:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker
(last updated 12/4/96)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | To Oil Cooler line on 0-360 A1A |
Was just getting ready to hang the motor for the final time, (at least for
2,000 + hrs, I hope). Was fitting all the stuff to the back of the motor
while it was handy. Last was the line that is shown on the Lycoming manual
figure 7.4 as "Oil to Cooler" located at about 4:00 on the oil filter
looking from the rear.
Well, if you use that one with a straight fitting, the hose will interfer
with the oil filter.
I assume people use the "optional" location shown in Figure 7.3 at about
11:00, right next to the "Oil from cooler connection. If I am right, what
is the source for the "Banjo" fitting?...... I haven't seen it in the ACS
catalog.
Bruce Patton
Wishing I could go soaring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "garrett v. smith" <blueskyman(at)msn.com> |
Hello Everyone:
Being a relative newcomer to the RV list, I have not seen any dialogue on
the different organizations that sell tools. I have catalogues from various
dealers, they all seem to have basic tool kits for 'wannabe builders'
such as myself. Would anybody care to comment on the various kits and
dealers, quality of tools, price comparisons, etc. .
Thanks,
Garrett Smith
Calgary, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rv-6 Fuselage Jig for sale |
For sale: Steel RV-6 fuselage jig mfd by Stephen Frey Co. It is available
now, removed my fuselage from it on 12-22-96. I paid over $1200. for it. Will
sell for $795 if you pick it up in the Atlanta area. It will fold and fit in
the back of a pickup truck. Mal 770-227-2248
rvbildr(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ab6a(at)juno.com (ALLAN E POMEROY) |
Hi Garret,
I and a lot of others feel that Avery Enterprises has top quality
tools. When it comes to aircraft tools, you get what you pay for. A lot
of tools are not cheap, but quality will pay off for you in the long
run. You WILL spend a lot of time with your tools while building an RV.
Hope this helps.
Allan Pomeroy Central NY
AB6A(at)juno.com
Riveting HS skeketon
On Mon, 23 Dec 96 03:35:50 UT "garrett v. smith"
writes:
>Hello Everyone:
>
>Being a relative newcomer to the RV list, I have not seen any dialogue
>on
>the different organizations that sell tools. I have catalogues from
>various
>dealers, they all seem to have basic tool kits for 'wannabe builders'
>such as myself. Would anybody care to comment on the various kits and
>dealers, quality of tools, price comparisons, etc. .
>
>
>Thanks,
>Garrett Smith
>Calgary, Canada
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: To Oil Cooler line on 0-360 A1A |
<< Was just getting ready to hang the motor for the final time, (at least for
2,000 + hrs, I hope). Was fitting all the stuff to the back of the motor
while it was handy. Last was the line that is shown on the Lycoming manual
figure 7.4 as "Oil to Cooler" located at about 4:00 on the oil filter
looking from the rear.
Well, if you use that one with a straight fitting, the hose will interfer
with the oil filter.
I assume people use the "optional" location shown in Figure 7.3 at about
11:00, right next to the "Oil from cooler connection. If I am right,
what
is the source for the "Banjo" fitting?...... I haven't seen it in the ACS
catalog. >>
That would be an incorrect assumption. Using a banjo fitting on the 11
o'clock port will reduce the oil flow to your cooler considerably. Per
Lycoming, this port is not the correct one to use for oil coolers, although
it is on a common passage with the correct port. Instead, use the 3/8" NPT
port (shown in Fig 7-4) between the oil filter and the governor pad and use a
straight or 45 degree hose fitting. The 11 o'clock port is a vestige of a
bygone era when it was equipped with a spring/plunger and used as a bypass
for a plugged oil screen or cooler. This port should remain plugged.
-Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <James.E.Clark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Slightly different heated pitot tube question ... |
Have any of you in RV-building land either *used* or *seen in use* the
"Piper-style" heated pitot-static tube (blade)??
Any idea as to how well this *might*/does perform on an RV6A?
Is there any reason (or theory) why this type would not work just as well
as any other (and maybe better)??
Any known issues regarding mounting such?
I have already talked to Warren Gretz (sp???) about same. His focus is on
the "Cessna-style" (if he had the blade type mount, I'd probably buy one).
James ...
RV6AQ
Rear top skins being drilled ...wings in sight
James.E.Clark(at)worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< Being a relative newcomer to the RV list, I have not seen any dialogue on
the different organizations that sell tools. I have catalogues from various
dealers, they all seem to have basic tool kits for 'wannabe builders'
such as myself. Would anybody care to comment on the various kits and
dealers, quality of tools, price comparisons, etc. .
Thanks,
Garrett Smith
Calgary, Canada >>
Welcome to the RV-List, Garret. These issues have been beaten pretty much
beyond death and dismemberment. Pureed, in fact! Please check the archives
located at http://www.matronics.com.
And don't even think about asking which primer to use ;^)
Merry Xmas,
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Merry Christmax |
To all of our friends and customers on the list Becki and I would like to
wish a Merry Christmax and a Happy New Year. Thanks for all of your support
and we hope to see you at a flyin some day.....George & Becki Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rv-6 Brake pads |
Mark,
The brake pads are $28.00 and include the rivets, the rivet setting dies
are $12.50.
Have a Merry Christmax....george
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rv-6 Brake pads |
Dana,
You didn't say how many hours you got out of the pads.
I wore my first set of tires out (the ones Van supplied) in 100 hrs but
the brake pads looked really good. I put a set of McCready (sp?) 6ply
on, they look substantially "heavier" than the Flight II's. We'll see
how long these last.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
On Sat, 21 Dec 1996, Jerry Springer wrote:
> Dana Breda wrote:
> >
> > Hi list,
> >
> > The brake pads on my -6 are getting thin & I want to order new ones (stock
> > brakes on 5" wheels shipped with the kit).
> >
> > Nothing in the construction manual or the info that came with the brakes
> > gives a part number for the brakes or the pads, and I can't figure it out
> > which pad I need from the Aircraft Spruce catalog.
> >
> > Anyone know a Cleveland stock number for the pads?
> >
> > Dana Breda
> > N138DB in NC
>
> Dana
> You need Cleveland # 66-106
> --
> Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
> jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Slightly different heated pitot tube question ... |
James;
For what it's worth, I have a Piper pitot head (blade type with both
pressure and static port) on mine, but it is not heated. I don't remember
if it had the wires on it or not, but if it did, I did not hook them up. (I
guess by the recent opinions on the list I am an accident waiting to
happen!) If memory serves me well (which is doubtful), the guy that gave it
to me said it was off of either an Apache or Archer?
At any rate, it works well on mine. As close as I have been able to
figure it, the installation error (which all have some of) is 1-2 mph, and
from my AF days, I think that is pretty good.
I mounted it with the lines through the same hole that I had cut for the
Van's tube, just put holes in either side for the two bolts that mount the
head. These two bolts still will go through the skin as well as the flange
that is at that location. It is close enough to the inspection plate that
you can get your hand in there to hook up plastic lines to the pressure and
static lines coming out of the head.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
My wife and I are planning a trip to San Diego Jan 1 - Jan 5. Anyone
know of any hangar space in the area for rent? Will buck rivets/give
free advice for hangar space!
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
garrett v. smith wrote:
>
> Hello Everyone:
>
> Being a relative newcomer to the RV list, I have not seen any dialogue on
> the different organizations that sell tools. I have catalogues from various
> dealers, they all seem to have basic tool kits for 'wannabe builders'
> such as myself. Would anybody care to comment on the various kits and
> dealers, quality of tools, price comparisons, etc. .
>
> Thanks,
> Garrett Smith
> Calgary, Canada
You could scan the RV archives at the matronics.com site. There is a
ton of info on the subject. However, I believe the majority of RV'rs
will agree that Avery's got the best product for the dollar.
Good luck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
To those interested:
I've updated my web page with RV interior/exterior and engine conversion
photos from Oshkosh '96 (courtesy of Robert Fritz).
I've also reorganized the Quickbuild construction photos by sub-assembly for
easier and faster retrieval.
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q Project:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker
(last updated 12/23/96 - Oshkosh '96 photos))
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Slightly different heated pitot tube question ... |
>
> James;
> For what it's worth, I have a Piper pitot head (blade type with both
> pressure and static port) on mine, but it is not heated. I don't remember
> if it had the wires on it or not, but if it did, I did not hook them up.
> John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
> Stephenville TX
> johnd@our-town.com
>
>
If anybody out there is planning on useing the Piper "blade" type pitot tube,
be sure you check the wires very carefully. They are very fragile at the point
that they are soldered into the unit. If you get one used, it may work only a
short while. Even used they're pretty expensive, so be sure you get a good
one.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
Hey Dan,
Do you have an EAA chapter listing? The Brown Field EAA chapter is one heck
of a an active group, they have a huge facility and lots of members. I don't
have their number but it might be worth your while. I'll bet a call to the
EAA 800 # will hook you up.
Hope it helps,
Eric Henson
Dana Point, CA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Reply Seperator<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,
My wife and I are planning a trip to San Diego Jan 1 - Jan 5. Anyone
know of any hangar space in the area for rent? Will buck rivets/give
free advice for hangar space!
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Puckett <71155.2336(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Hello everyone,
I am getting ready to by a used lycoming from a guy named "Mark Schrick" in San
Jose, CA.. Has anyone delt with this guy before?
Any input would be greatly appreciated! Please email me directly if you like.
Greg Puckett RV-8 80081
Aurora, CO
71155.2336(at)Compuserve.com
(303)766-2318
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David W.S. King" <KingD(at)Direct.Ca> |
Hi Guys
Bet you thought this was going to be a command sent to the list again huh? ;-]
Well truth be know I managed to blow out the command list for this server
so i cant even be assured of sending the right command to the wrong addy.
So if some kind soul would forward me the commands again I can gleefully
send commands to unsuspecting list members or list servers ;-]
Cheers
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Fritz <75303.1623(at)CompuServe.COM> |
I don't know him but I live not too far away if I can be of any help.
Bob Fritz
building workshop
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Gray <klgray(at)bihs.net> |
I have a 1/2 inch space from the outside of the back plate to the size
of the cowling. I am not refering to the distance from spinner to cowl,
but the size in diameter. I notice in Van catalog that there is a 12"
and 13" spinner. I measured mine and it is a 13". Has anyone else seen
this problem.
I am just looking at reducing the drag. This extra 1/2" around the
spinner collects a lot of bugs!
Ken Gray
klgray(at)bihs.net
N69KG 210 hours since Jan 96. Not painted yet, to much fun flying!
Suggest you paint before fly!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Penguin Humor & Canopy Non-Humor |
| From: | Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)highfiber.com> |
Copied from AvWeb:
SHORT FINAL...
A Mexican newspaper reports that bored Royal Air Force pilots stationed
on the Falkland Islands have devised what they consider a marvelous new
game. Noting that the local penguins are fascinated by airplanes, the
pilots search out a beach where the birds are gathered and fly slowly
along it at the water's edge. Perhaps ten thousand penguins turn their
heads in unison watching the planes go by, and when the pilots turn
around and fly back, the birds turn their heads in the opposite
direction, like spectators at a slow-motion tennis match. Then, the
paper reports, "The pilots fly out to sea and directly to the penguin
colony and over fly it. Heads go up, up, up, and ten thousand penguins
fall over gently onto their backs."
--Audubon Society Magazine
Thought I would share some humor to show I still have a sense of it after
cracking my canopy while drilling it for attachment rivets. With Van's
quoting me $480 for a new one (plus crating and shipping, of course) I
will come up with some cosmetic bandaid to hide my 3 inch nightmare.
In the meantime, wish everyone on the list a Merry Christmas!
Mike Kukulski
RV-4 N96MK
kukulski(at)highfiber.com
Albuquerque, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< I am getting ready to by a used lycoming from a guy named "Mark Schrick"
in San
Jose, CA.. Has anyone delt with this guy before?
Any input would be greatly appreciated! Please email me directly if you
like. >>
I know Mark very well. He has a network of friends and associates that have
the inside track on wrecked planes and such. Apparently a good friend of his
is an aircraft accident inspector. Mark's a good guy, but I don't think he
is an engine expert by any stretch of the imagination, just a good
networking/marketing guy. Mark is a good friend and he's building a Glasair
II, with expert assistance. Be sure you have an engine expert evaluate any
engine you are negotiating for to make sure you are getting what you expect.
Mark's service is different than dealing with an engine shop.
Merry Xmas,
Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pilot Height Difference... |
To all listers in the mid 5' range, or having experience with passengers of
this height, can the seat back be moved far enough forward to accommodate?
How about seeing out the windshield? Ability to reach the relocated rudder
pedals? >>
Rob: having passed the seat cushuion building stage, let me pass on my 5
foot 8 inch observations. My rudder pedals are one inch further aft (toward
my short legs) than plan-standard. My seat back is on the second notch (of
3) and I prefer it raked all the way back against the cross-piece in front of
the baggage compartment. I had a bit of trouble trimming my canopy just
right, but I don't think all my putzing around with it changed its vertical
height any... The clearance inside as far as headroom is very tight. The
headphone earcups hit the canopy whenever I bob my head or look to the left.
I am sitting on 3 inches of temperfoam under the butt; two inches under the
thighs. Despite the skimpy-sounding cushion, seating is comfortable but
headroom is, as I said, surprisingly tight. My hand will hardly fit edgewise
between the headphone headband and the canopy.
One day after flying in turbulence I'm going to get out of that plane much
shorter than when I got in. (I'm not flying yet, just dreaming.) I would
not have thought a guy my size would need the extra headroom modification,
but would do this if I had it to do over again.
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
RV-6A tip-up - western VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
<< unscribe >>
You shouldn't ever "scribe" in the first place... it weakens the metal. Use
a fine Sharpie marker.
To unsubscribe from the list, use that word instead. But I believe it is to
be sent to another address, not the list.
________________________________________________________________________________
(garrett v. smith) writes:
<< rv-list(at)matronics.com >>
Don' buy cheap tools. You'll only regret it. Especially when it comes to
dimple dies. The two companies, whose owners are building RV's, sell quality
tools. By the way, the owner of one of these companies has been building for
several years, and years, and years. Sorry about that Mr Avery. Did you
ever finish?
Dave, RV-6
---------------------
From: msn.com!blueskyman(at)matronics.com (garrett v. smith)
Date: 96-12-23 00:16:18 EST
Hello Everyone:
Being a relative newcomer to the RV list, I have not seen any dialogue on
the different organizations that sell tools. I have catalogues from various
dealers, they all seem to have basic tool kits for 'wannabe builders'
such as myself. Would anybody care to comment on the various kits and
dealers, quality of tools, price comparisons, etc. .
Thanks,
Garrett Smith
Calgary, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "E. Amadio" <e_amadio(at)vaxxine.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hobby Stevens' Visit to OMABP and flying the Chevy powered |
RV-6A
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBF12E.35F10C40
Hal:
Just saw your note on the Vortec to Hobby Stevens.
A comment: GM is doing continual longevity testing on this engine (as =
well as every other engine they build). The most recent run was the same =
as the one I described earlier, It's a standard test.This engine =
performed as well as the one mentioned before , in fact a test stand =
failure is a rare occurence.
=20
After the durability test (529 hours) this engine went through 2 oil =
economy tests of 10 hours each. In each test the oil consumption was so =
low that it was virtualy irrelavant ,something on the order of 1 ounce =
in 10 hours.
The O-300 in my 170 goes through 1 quart of Shell 15/50 every 6 to 7 =
hours, at close to $7.00/qt CDN the oil savings alone become serious =
numbers if we are going to use these wonderfull machines.
All the best of the season to everyone on the list and your families.
Ernie Amadio
Getting close to starting
C-170-B C-FJJK
e_amadio(at)vaxxine.com
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBF12E.35F10C40
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BBF12E.35F10C40--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Penguin Humor & Canopy Non-Humor |
Be careful, your three inch nightmare could become a three foot reality!
Chris May
RV-4 N595CM 100 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Penguin Humor & Canopy Non-Humor |
>Copied from AvWeb:
>
>SHORT FINAL...
>A Mexican newspaper reports that bored Royal Air Force pilots stationed
>on the Falkland Islands have devised what they consider a marvelous new
>game. Noting that the local penguins are fascinated by airplanes, the
>pilots search out a beach where the birds are gathered and fly slowly
>along it at the water's edge. Perhaps ten thousand penguins turn their
>heads in unison watching the planes go by, and when the pilots turn
>around and fly back, the birds turn their heads in the opposite
>direction, like spectators at a slow-motion tennis match. Then, the
>paper reports, "The pilots fly out to sea and directly to the penguin
>colony and over fly it. Heads go up, up, up, and ten thousand penguins
>fall over gently onto their backs."
> --Audubon Society Magazine
>
>Thought I would share some humor to show I still have a sense of it after
>cracking my canopy while drilling it for attachment rivets. With Van's
>quoting me $480 for a new one (plus crating and shipping, of course) I
>will come up with some cosmetic bandaid to hide my 3 inch nightmare.
>
>In the meantime, wish everyone on the list a Merry Christmas!
>
>Mike Kukulski
>
>RV-4 N96MK
>kukulski(at)highfiber.com
>Albuquerque, NM
Mike, Interesting story, I like it.
Sorry about the canopy, but there are things you can do. Obviously, stop
drill the hole. Visit your local plastic supplier. He can be found in the
yellow pages, even in ABQ! You should be able to buy a repair kit that
will seal the crack. Possibly a micromesh kit and it will almost be like
new. If you have luck, let us know, both the expense and the quality of
the repair.
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Slightly different heated pitot tube question ... |
worldnet.att.net!James.E.Clark(at)matronics.com (James E. Clark) writes:
<< rv-list(at)matronics.com >>
James, I originally had the vane on my "6". I didn't care for it since the
static had more error than what I wanted. I had a 100 altitude error in
flight. Also messed up the A/S of course. I changed over to the standard
Van's static air ports on the fuselage sides and kept the vane for pitot
pressure. Still had some error in the A/S. I changed the vane to Van's tube
and had a lot better results. A lot of things can cause the problems that I
had. Especially the mounting position of the vane. I measured the position
on a vane on a Piper, using % chord. That meant mounting it aft of where Van
mounts the tube. Also had to make a doubler for strength on the skin. I've
seen other RV's with the vane. But, don't try to fix something that isn't
broken. Unless you need a heated probe, Van's installation is easy and
functional. I did modify one thing on Van's Pitot tube. I mounted it so
that the nut holding the tube is on the inside of the wing. A little tricky
to mount it, but then, how many times do you take it off? Hope this helps.
Dave, RV-6
---------------------
From: worldnet.att.net!James.E.Clark(at)matronics.com (James E. Clark)
Date: 96-12-23 03:51:46 EST
Have any of you in RV-building land either *used* or *seen in use* the
"Piper-style" heated pitot-static tube (blade)??
Any idea as to how well this *might*/does perform on an RV6A?
Is there any reason (or theory) why this type would not work just as well
as any other (and maybe better)??
Any known issues regarding mounting such?
I have already talked to Warren Gretz (sp???) about same. His focus is on
the "Cessna-style" (if he had the blade type mount, I'd probably buy one).
James ...
RV6AQ
Rear top skins being drilled ...wings in sight
James.E.Clark(at)worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
| Subject: | Safety issue for RV-4's |
I was flying my 4 the other day, the sun was directly behind me and low,
shinning directly on the rudder peddels. The bolt that holds the brake
cylinder is turned outboard, non-standard because of clearance. My feet
had somehow straightened both cotter pins and they looked like they could
fall out. I think this has been mentioned on the list before and that's
why I was looking so closely down there in the first place, thanks list!
I'm going to get under there with some safety wire and fix this once and
for all.
Merry Xmas everyone!
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ron.taborek(at)flight642.com (RON TABOREK) |
Mike Kukulski
I too know the sound of a canopy cracking. In my case it happened when
I was fitting the canopy after having drilled the holes successfully.
Those of you who haven't done this yet, handle it as little as possible
and as carefully as possible.
Mike, I was rescued from despair by reading Sport Aviation July 1995,
page 74. Even the great Tony Bingelis cracked a canopy and he gives
tips on making small windows in the crack location. So perhaps it
wasn't just my hamhandedness.
In thinking through what to do next I've got this far:
1) I'll attempt a repair and assess it before buying a new canopy.
What are the odds of cracking two?
2) A local plastics dealer gave me some methylene chloride, into which
you can dissolve bits of the plastic and make a patching glue. Perhaps
this could be combined with Bill Benedicts suggestion of micromesh.
3) Fit an opening window, as Tony Bingelis outlines. This to me looks
like a lot of complex work.
4) Make a false window. Making a frame only that doesn't open may make
a simpler and neater installation. I'll try this if 2) doesn't work.
Comments on this problem would be appreciated.
Ron Taborek RV-4 Installing O-320 Toronto ron.taborek(at)flight642.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Safety issue for RV-4's |
>I was flying my 4 the other day, the sun was directly behind me and low,
>shinning directly on the rudder peddels. The bolt that holds the brake
>cylinder is turned outboard, non-standard because of clearance. My feet
>had somehow straightened both cotter pins and they looked like they could
>fall out. I think this has been mentioned on the list before and that's
>why I was looking so closely down there in the first place, thanks list!
>I'm going to get under there with some safety wire and fix this once and
>for all.
>Merry Xmas everyone!
>
>Dan Boudro
And that isn't the only cotter pin that can come out. My manual trim cable
is attached to a lever built into my throttle quadrant. It's fastened with
a castle nut and cotter pin. Well somehow I snagged the pin and it came out
about a year ago. Got my attention in a hurry....I was glad it was only the
trim! It's re-enginered now.
Moral of the story.......they can come out, believe it.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying 220 hours
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
marcy(at)aone.com, khall(at)columbia-center.org
| Subject: | Apollo Loran Antennae for sale |
This is the standard Loran 45 degree whip antennae with the streamlined
base. $130 in several TAP ads, sell for 1/2, $65.
Wanted: GPS-90 compatible external antennae.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all!
Don 'The Duck' Wentz, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dr. John M. Ely" <jmely(at)shentel.net> |
| Subject: | F-682 Center Console Channel |
Yesterday, I downloaded several beautiful RV photos from Rob Acker's
homepage (linked via his note on this site...thanks for sharing Rob) and
was interested to note that all of the RV-6 interiors shown did not use
the F-682 center console channel below the panel. Instead, a triangular
plate near the front of the seat held the elevator trim control and fuel
guages/fuel selector valve. I've seen this at a few fly-ins before and
it looks as if it increases leg room and improves ease of entry, besides
looking nicer.
But, is there any loss of structural integrity by doing this? If not,
how is the plate supported? Any comments welcomed.
John Ely, RV-6 wiring/plumbing and getting very excited about flying!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Jordan <ace(at)pacifier.com> |
| Subject: | Safety issue for RV-4's |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBF199.573E1F80
I live in Oregon. What is this thing you call "SUN"????
----------
From: Dan Boudro[SMTP:nmia.com!dboudro(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 1996 6:49 AM
Subject: RV-List: Safety issue for RV-4's
I was flying my 4 the other day, the sun was directly behind me and low,
shinning directly on the rudder peddels. The bolt that holds the brake
cylinder is turned outboard, non-standard because of clearance. My feet
had somehow straightened both cotter pins and they looked like they could
fall out. I think this has been mentioned on the list before and that's
why I was looking so closely down there in the first place, thanks list!
I'm going to get under there with some safety wire and fix this once and
for all.
Merry Xmas everyone!
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BBF199.573E1F80--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elon Ormsby <elon.o(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Alternative Engine Research |
Hi folks: Caught this news flash on the AVweb. Imagine, NASA supporting
"low cost" turbine and Diesel power for general aviation. Even though
reality may be years away it is encouraging to see our tax dollars at
work on something dear to all of us.
Happy & Safe Holiday(s)to all,
elon.o(at)worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------
THE LITTLE ENGINES THAT SHOULD: NASA SEEKS G.A. REVITALIZATION
As expected, NASA announced its General Aviation Propulsion (GAP)
program awards to turbine-engine pioneer Williams International Co. of
Walled Lake, Mich., and piston-engine maker Teledyne Continental Motors
of Mobile, Ala. Look for nothing less than revolutionary technologies
to come from this project, says NASA. "We want to develop engines that
are reliable and affordable--engines that will set a new standard for
general aviation and restore the U.S. to prominence in this thriving
industry around the world," said Daniel Goldin, NASA administrator.
Under the program, Williams is developing an ultra-low-cost FJX-2
turbofan engine, and TCM is developing a supercharged Diesel that will
run on Jet A, need no magnetos or sparkplugs, and be half the cost of
today's aircraft piston engines.
TOYOTA COMING TO U.S. G.A. MARKET
While NASA and the domestic planemakers study and stutter-step, Japan's
Toyota has parlayed an FBO and years of development into an FAA-approved
engine and plans for a new four-place light plane for the U.S. market.
Toyota will produce 4000 cc--about 245 cubic inch--V8 engines which have
been developed by Toyota and United Technologies Corp's Hamilton
Standard unit, the company said. As for the new lightplane, Toyota
isn't showing its cards yet...but it could well be based on the firm's
four-place proof-of-concept prototype built by Scaled Composites and
used to secure the engine type certificate.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dana Breda <rv6av8r(at)ols.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rv-6 Brake pads |
My pads currently have 170 hours on them; they aren't gone yet, but I
thought I'd have a set handy when my annual comes due in a couple months.
I, too, got 100 hours out of the tires Van supplied. I put on a set of
Condor's, and after 70 hours, they show practically no wear. 'course,
nowadays, I don't make nearly as many landings per takeoff...
Dana Breda
RV-6 N138DB in NC
>Dana,
>You didn't say how many hours you got out of the pads.
>I wore my first set of tires out (the ones Van supplied) in 100 hrs but
>the brake pads looked really good. I put a set of McCready (sp?) 6ply
>on, they look substantially "heavier" than the Flight II's. We'll see
>how long these last.
>
>Dan Boudro
>RV-4 N9167Z
>Albuquerque, NM
>dboudro(at)nmia.com
>
>On Sat, 21 Dec 1996, Jerry Springer wrote:
>
>> Dana Breda wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi list,
>> >
>> > The brake pads on my -6 are getting thin & I want to order new ones (stock
>> > brakes on 5" wheels shipped with the kit).
>> >
>> > Nothing in the construction manual or the info that came with the brakes
>> > gives a part number for the brakes or the pads, and I can't figure it out
>> > which pad I need from the Aircraft Spruce catalog.
>> >
>> > Anyone know a Cleveland stock number for the pads?
>> >
>> > Dana Breda
>> > N138DB in NC
>>
>> Dana
>> You need Cleveland # 66-106
>> --
>> Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
>> jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: F-682 Center Console Channel |
>Yesterday, I downloaded several beautiful RV photos from Rob Acker's
>homepage (linked via his note on this site...thanks for sharing Rob) and
Welcome...I'm getting lots of positive comments...thanks all! Oh yea, let's
thank Bob Fritz for the pictures .
>But, is there any loss of structural integrity by doing this? If not,
>how is the plate supported? Any comments welcomed.
>
>John Ely, RV-6 wiring/plumbing and getting very excited about flying!
>
It's my understand it is not structural. The archives seem to confirm this
so I have made the decision to gain some much needed legroom and "space".
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q Project:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker
(last updated 12/23/96 - Oshkosh '96 photos)
________________________________________________________________________________
Mike Kukulski
| From: | joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca (joehine) |
Mike,
Just read you post about cracking your canopy. Did you follow the post
about repairing the cracks that I started a couple of months ago? If not I
have the information about what Chemicals to get to try and repair the
crack. I haven't fixed mine yet but I did help a friend fix his. Drop me a
line if you have any questions
Cheers
joe
joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca Comp. 9, Site 8, RR#4
506-452-1072 Home Fredericton, NB
506-452-3495 Work Canada, E3B 4X5
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Cracking |
RON TABOREK wrote:
>
> Mike Kukulski
> I too know the sound of a canopy cracking. In my case it happened when
> I was fitting the canopy after having drilled the holes successfully.
> Those of you who haven't done this yet, handle it as little as possible
> and as carefully as possible.
> Mike, I was rescued from despair by reading Sport Aviation July 1995,
> page 74. Even the great Tony Bingelis cracked a canopy and he gives
> tips on making small windows in the crack location. So perhaps it
> wasn't just my hamhandedness.
> In thinking through what to do next I've got this far:
> 1) I'll attempt a repair and assess it before buying a new canopy.
> What are the odds of cracking two?
> 2) A local plastics dealer gave me some methylene chloride, into which
> you can dissolve bits of the plastic and make a patching glue. Perhaps
> this could be combined with Bill Benedicts suggestion of micromesh.
> 3) Fit an opening window, as Tony Bingelis outlines. This to me looks
> like a lot of complex work.
> 4) Make a false window. Making a frame only that doesn't open may make
> a simpler and neater installation. I'll try this if 2) doesn't work.
> Comments on this problem would be appreciated.
>
> Ron Taborek RV-4 Installing O-320 Toronto ron.taborek(at)flight642.com
Ron
I built my canopy in the middle of summer in Florida.
The hanger was about 110 degrees. I had no problem at all
( with cracking not the building, what a pain the #*^%).
Keep your work area as warm as possible.
I also had someone help me move it when I was cutting and fitting.
CRAIG HIERS
TALLAHASSEE,FL
N143CH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dieck(at)apexcomm.net (Robert Dieck) |
| Subject: | Re: Alternative Engine Research |
>Hi folks: Caught this news flash on the AVweb. Imagine, NASA supporting
>"low cost" turbine and Diesel power for general aviation. Even though
>reality may be years away it is encouraging to see our tax dollars at
>work on something dear to all of us.
>
>Snip:
I hate to rain on the parade, but I wonder if NASA has talked to the FAA
about this? The current crop of aircraft engines are reliable and would be
much more affordable if certification and liability costs (real or not)
weren't so high (IMHO).
I understand the need for the feds to regulate aviation. But manufactures
have little incentive to make major changes. Unfortunately as soon as
something is certified the design becomes frozen. Now add trial lawyers into
the mix, and a market as small as aviation (primarally GA) doesn't look
overly attractive to many newcomers (COMPETITION IS GOOD). All of these
combined have given us our current situation with both engine ($20K / 1940
design) and airframe manufactures (here today gone tomorrow). Experimental
designer / builders have fewer limits in these regards and as a result the
field has grown wildly.
All of that being said I wish luck to anyone willing to take on this task.
Hopefully we will have more engine options in the future.
Bob
The Airplane Factory
Robert/Tammie Dieck
Wausau WI USA
dieck(at)apexcomm.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Sun ! Was Safety issue for RV-4's |
>Dan Boudro wrote:
>I was flying my 4 the other day, the sun was directly behind
>me and low, shinning directly on the rudder peddels.
****snip****
Terry Jordan wrote:
>I live in Oregon. What is this thing you call "SUN"????
>
Good one Terry, for those that are not as lucky (or is it
unlucky) to live in Oregon we have just reached a all time
record for rain fall this year, not good for getting
alot of fun flying in RV's
Happy Holidays all Rv'ers and listers.
Jerry Springer
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First Flight July 14,1989
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RCB <snaproll(at)rmi.net> |
| Subject: | Other RVers in Colorado |
I'm building an -8 and I would like to meet some other -4, -6, and -8
builders in the area. I'm in Colorado Springs and I work on my plane in
a hangar at Meadowlake Airport. Mail me direct. snaproll(at)peaka.net
Have a very merry Christmas and a joyous New Year, everyone!
Roy
80096
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Alternative Engine Research |
<< Experimental
designer / builders have fewer limits in these regards and as a result the
field has grown wildly.
All of that being said I wish luck to anyone willing to take on this task.
Hopefully we will have more engine options in the future.
Bob >>
Did you catch the one in Sport Aviation about the Davis DA-somethingorother
that gets its torque from a Briggs & Stratton lawnmower engine?! (22 hp) I
must tell you, I was so intrigued by the concept that I actually stopped work
on the RV for a few hours to ponder how I could design a flivver around such
a powerplant. I didn't like Davis' numbers (something like 60 mph stall and
120 mph cruise) and would rather see 30 stall and 70 cruise for the mission
profile I have in mind, but an engine that can be replaced outright for $995
looks good compared to some of the $5K four-stroke midgets being trotted out
for light aircraft at Oshkosh.
Bill Boyd
Daydreaming in Virginia,
endlessly fiberglassing gear legs and wheel pants.................
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: F-682 Center Console Channel |
>Yesterday, I downloaded several beautiful RV photos from Rob Acker's
>homepage (linked via his note on this site...thanks for sharing Rob) and
>was interested to note that all of the RV-6 interiors shown did not use
>the F-682 center console channel below the panel. Instead, a triangular
>plate near the front of the seat held the elevator trim control and fuel
>guages/fuel selector valve. I've seen this at a few fly-ins before and
>it looks as if it increases leg room and improves ease of entry, besides
>looking nicer.
>
>But, is there any loss of structural integrity by doing this? If not,
>how is the plate supported? Any comments welcomed.
>
>John Ely, RV-6 wiring/plumbing and getting very excited about flying!
John, No loss of structural integrity. Just how you support it, we will
need to wait for a response from someone whom has done it.
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elon Ormsby <elon.o(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Alternate Engines (Chat) |
Hi Bob:
A little rain always makes for good conversation. You wrote:
-----------------------
The current crop of aircraft engines are reliable and would be much more
affordable if certification and liability costs (real or not) weren't so
high (IMHO).
-----------------------
The FAA is changing FAR 135 rules to allow SINGLE engine (Turbine only)
operation in IMC! This a tribute to the phenomenal reliability of the
turbine engine. You will NOT see 135 approval for a piston engine.
While GA piston engines enjoy good reliability they do not approach the
reliability of a turbine. Research to make turbine technology affordable
(and efficient) for GA use is in our best interest. Without doubt, it is
a formidable and expensive task. It may take many years but it is the
future. Remember, liability costs go down when reliability goes up!
-----------------------
I understand the need for the feds to regulate aviation. But
manufactures have little incentive to make major changes.
-----------------------
I certainly agree that it is a chilling environment. But a
manufacturers incentive is based on ROI "return on investment". If the
profitability is there they will make changes eagerly. Volume generally
helps this equation. E.g., Cessna halted electronic ignition this year
but has said electronic ignition will be on new engines next year. If a
profitable market wants changes the fed has a lesser influence on the
rate of change.
-----------------------
Unfortunately as soon as something is certified the design becomes
frozen.
-----------------------
The whole idea of certifying is to ensure that consumers are buying (or
flying) an absolute, proven, known quantity. Aviation is intolerant of
wide fluctuations in quality. I agree that the process is costly (in R&D
and legal fees) and does not promote rapid changes in technology. But
it also means you are not being used as a Test-pilot by anyone that
"thinks" they have better idea. Look at the crop of ADs that appear
even in a certified environment! What would it be if everything was
experimental? The current system provides choice between certified or
experimental.
-----------------------
Now add trial lawyers into the mix, and a market as small as aviation
(primarily GA) doesn't look overly attractive to many newcomers
(COMPETITION IS GOOD).
-----------------------
You may be considering only the US Market. Cessna reps have told me
privately that 50% of its production is slated for export. Also consider
that many foreign aircraft use American made engines. The gist of the
NASA research was to energize US R&D to bring the US back to a
world-wide sphere of influence. GA, world-wide, can be a major market.
Also consider the price of oil (or the availability) in twenty years.
Turbines and diesels adept more readily to alternative fuels. Although
smog issues are serious for any kind engine.
-----------------------
All of these combined have given us our current situation with both
engine ($20K/1940 design) and airframe manufactures (here today gone
tomorrow).
-----------------------
There used to be an auto manufacturer for every letter of the alphabet.
Remember, the Excelsior, Oakland, Zenith (please lets not list them
there must have been 200) however, the big 3 and many foreign giants
(Fiat, VW) still survive. In Aviation its the same thing, Piper, Beech,
Cessna, are still viable as well as strong foreign aircraft
manufactures. It may be that market forces and business acumen are as
equally important(or more) than legislation.
-----------------------
Experimental designer/builders have fewer limits in these regards and as
a result the field has grown wildly.
-----------------------
Wonderful isn't it.
A Happy and Safe Holiday(s)to All,
elon.o(at)worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillAkin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rv-6 Brake pads |
Dana!
Your comments on the Condor (Michlin) tires confirms what I have discovered.
Got about 200 hours out of the original tires from Van's (McCreary). Now have
400 hours on the Condors and it is almost time to change them. Double the
time is worth the few bucks more the Condor's cost. Van was shipping the
Condors,for a period of time I believe, a while back but they are apparently
a little taller than some of the other tires and causing some rubbing
problems where tire clearance was not set just right for the fairings. A
friend of mine also uses the Condors and has had execellent service from them
too. Of course, landing surface, landings per hour, gear alignment, and pilot
skill are the major varables affecting tire wear so comparisons's have to be
made by the individual based upon his own experience.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bpboyd(at)cdsnet.net (Bruce Boyd) |
| Subject: | Re: F-682 Center Console Channel |
>Yesterday, I downloaded several beautiful RV photos from Rob Acker's
>homepage (linked via his note on this site...thanks for sharing Rob) and
>was interested to note that all of the RV-6 interiors shown did not use
>the F-682 center console channel below the panel. Instead, a triangular
>plate near the front of the seat held the elevator trim control and fuel
>guages/fuel selector valve. I've seen this at a few fly-ins before and
>it looks as if it increases leg room and improves ease of entry, besides
>looking nicer.
>
>But, is there any loss of structural integrity by doing this? If not,
>how is the plate supported? Any comments welcomed.
>
>John Ely, RV-6 wiring/plumbing and getting very excited about flying!
>
John,
I did a couple panels like that. I added a piece of angle from the panel to
the fuse
longeron on each side as the panel will flex a bit in the middle.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillAkin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Sun ! Was Safety issue for RV-4's |
If you've ever flown over the nothwest part of this country in an RV you know
why folks put up with the rain up there. Take it from a Texan who's state has
one hill you might call a mountain that doesn't even know what grass is, much
less a tree. Besides, I've been to God's country several times and I saw what
I think was the sun a couple of times. And where else are you gonna see
"Bigfoot"?
On another note, as soon as RV's outnumber the spam cans, and they will, if
we can keep uncle and the airlines off our backs (practice safety and
responsibility), sport aviation will get the attention of engine
manufacturers as it has with the instrument and avionics industry.
Mr. personality's contribution to our sport with the RV will come as close to
"an airplane in every garage" as you can get and is yet to be realized
fully. OK! so I'm prejudice and can't spell.
B. A.
RV6A N85TX
Texas Buttcrack Squadron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillAkin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: F-682 Center Console Channel |
John:
I eliminated the center console on my 6A and constructed a bracket off the
fuel selector bracket at the spar just larger enough to accomadate the manual
elevator trim vernier which I prefer. Works great this way with more leg room
width and looks better to me. I also used every fraction of an inch (height)
of the panel and was able to get carb heat, throttle, and mixture controls
horizontally across the bottom of the panel in a conventional layout with
room to spare for prop control and IFR equipment if planned carefully.Found
it necessary to install stiffeners out about 3" from either side at the
bottom of the panel attached from the panel flange back to the sub panel.
Radio stack trays will serve to stiffen the center portion bottom of the
panel. If you use electric trim (and I think this is a waste of money and
weight) you need only provide for the fuel selector support and/or fuel
guages if you choose not to put them on the panel as some have. Mine is a
duel fuel guage on the panel with the other engine instruments. Also , I
trimmed about 1 1/2" off my flap handle and I like it that way.
BA
RV6A N85TX
Texas Buttcrack Squadron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: Sun ! Was Safety issue for RV-4's |
>If you've ever flown over the nothwest part of this country in an RV you know
>why folks put up with the rain up there. Take it from a Texan who's state has
>one hill you might call a mountain that doesn't even know what grass is, much
>less a tree. Besides, I've been to God's country several times and I saw what
>I think was the sun a couple of times. And where else are you gonna see
>"Bigfoot"?
>
>
>B. A.
>RV6A N85TX
>Texas Buttcrack Squadron
>
>
I was flying over the Cascades one fine afternoon a couple years ago and
decided to drop down through a 'crack' in the clouds and get under them. I
knew I was near Snoqualmie Pass and figured I'd just fly down the valley
into the Puget Sound. As I was coming down I passed within a 100 feet or so
of the right side of the rift in the clouds. Glancing over there, though, I
noticed why they call it 'Cumilous Granitous'. There was the faint outline
of a very solid granite outcropping barely visible in the cloud.
Kind of unnerving to realize how close I had come to the valley wall without
realizing it. Another time I was flying back to Arlington from Sunriver
Oregon and was on top at 10,500 until getting to Mt Rainier. Nice easy
flight over smooth clouds. After I landed I was looking at my charts and
realized that I had just flown the length of the Cascade Mountains and that
it was lucky that the engine had kept running; no place to land under those
clouds. It gives you a false sense of security to see those soft fluffy
clouds under you.......
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louise Coats <lcoats(at)wave.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: F-682 Center Console Channel |
Snip
..and was interested to note that all of the RV-6 interiors shown did not use
>the F-682 center console channel below the panel. Instead, a triangular
>plate near the front of the seat held the elevator trim control and fuel
>guages/fuel selector valve. I've seen this at a few fly-ins before and
>it looks as if it increases leg room and improves ease of entry, besides
>looking nicer. But, is there any loss of structural integrity by doing
this? If not,
>how is the plate supported? Any comments welcomed.
>John Ely, RV-6 wiring/plumbing and getting very excited about flying!
John,
The F-682 was left out of our RV6 cockpit too. I was trained up in 152's
and 172's and that piece just didn't look right to me. Others on the list
have mentioned the reasons for lack of installation and I agree with what
has been said. One other feature is that it is far easier to get in under
the panel and to firewall pieces later on for maintenance etc. without this
structure being in the way. (Although lying on the vernier control isn't
too comfortable - this has been designed so that it is easy to disassemble
and remove out of the way)! I am very impressed with this vernier control
and its sensitivity - tiny adjustments have a marked effect on pitch. The
play in the trim tab that was mentioned as being a problem a month or so ago
was not a feature of our installation.
L. Coats ZK-RVL RV6 flying :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com> |
'Twas late Christmas Eve and all over the ramp
not an aircraft was moving, not a Cub or a Champ.
All the hangars were dark, save the one where we toiled;
our tools were still scattered 'round puddles of oil.
The mechanic and I, still covered with grime
had finished the annual inspection in time
for a well-deserved rest, for tomorrow would bring
a new Christmas day, full of laughter and singing.
With only the paperwork yet to complete
our bird would be flying again by next week.
The logbooks were spread on the desktop with care
in hopes that a signature soon would be there.
With he in his coveralls and I with cold feet
we sat down with cocoa and cookies to eat.
Content with our work, we settled our brains
and our thoughts turned to flying adventures and planes.
The snow had begun just a little past dinner;
the field was now blanketed lightly with winter.
Though the cold just outside could turn oil to jelly,
the cocoa was pleasantly warm in our belly.
But then on the roof there arose such a rumble,
the cookies, once perfectly shaped, had now crumbled!
First a crash and a thump, then a frightening roar,
and it come not just once, but then seven times more.
We sprang from our chairs; they fell with a clatter
as we dashed to the window to see what was the matter.
And what did we see through the frost on the pane?
But a monstrous glider with eight tiny RV planes.
From the hangar-top they flew, a quick dogleg north,
then a sweeping turn inbound brought them back on course.
The approach was superb, and with glider in tow,
the eight little RVs then rolled out on the snow.
The glider's big canopy popped open just then,
and out sprang the pilot, quite short by most men.
But in girth he was ample, how round in the middle;
he resembled, in profile, an overgrown fiddle!
With a flight suit of red, a quite dashing old chap,
a current world atlas affixed to his lap.
His pockets were bulging with pencils and plotters
from planning those difficult legs over water.
His flowing white hair tumbled out from his cap,
which said, "Van's Air Force" or something like that.
With fur 'round his collar and bells on his toes,
a great flying elf of magnificent repose!
To the hangar he sprinted, threw open the door;
the bag on his shoulder was soon on the floor.
He roamed 'round our bird, dropping colorful hints,
like RV calendars and preview plan prints.
Some RV pins and patches and catalogs and such,
this elf's generosity was clearly too much!
On the tool box he placed a small Christmas tree sprinkled
with pop-rivets, platenuts, and screws - how they tinkled!
But then in a flurry he gathered his gear
as though not to waste the now dwindling year.
He nodded toward me, gave his bag a big shake;
then I knew he must have many more stops to make.
As he passed the old bird with a glance he then knew
that our fondest desires had yet to come true.
With a peek through the logbooks and a stroke of his pen,
our beloved spam-can was now current again.
Then he burst out the door, crossing tarmac in bounds,
the bells on his feet making Christmassy sounds.
With a leap to the cockpit he looked up with a wink,
then busied himself with some checklists, I think.
The team engaged starters with thunder and smoke,
then surged ahead smartly, putting strain on the yoke.
The glider was heavy, still laden with purpose,
but the merry old pilot was soon off the surface.
Over windsocks and rooftops his coursers they flew
and he called them by name from some ritual he knew:
"On One! OnThree! Four and Eight!
I need all your power so I won't be late."
Now Six! Now Six-A! Now Six-B and Six-T, so tall:
Dash away,climb away, fly away all!"
With skill and with splendor they trundled aloft
till the last swirling snow finally settled, again soft.
I gaze up, now and then, not with malice or anger,
where eight separate touch and goes dented my hangar,
but remember with fondness that squadron of night
with formation flying so expert and tight.
And I think of that pilot, do daring, so bold,
and wonder how he ever survived to grow old.
But he surely brought joy to our hangar that day
as he must have for so many others that way.
Now engraved in my mind, how the image grows brighter,
of the eight winged steeds and stupendous glider.
And I hear the old pilot as he sailed beyond sight,
"Merry Christmas to all, and to all RVers a good flight."
Les Williams
(orignal by Jerry Miller)
lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com
RV-6A QBME (picked up 12/19/96)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Sliding canopy rear skirts |
After reading Ken's account in the latest RVator about how *he* did his
rear canopy skirts, I thought I would try it his way: attach the skirt at
the top and work my way down, pulling the skirt forward as I go.
I'm here to tell you this works a little too well. I *was* able to get a
nice tight seal around the rear skirts. However: with the canopy open
1/4-inch, I was able to pull the aft edges of the rear skirts down such
that now I cannot get the canopy closed all the way.
I'm going to repeat the process without the canopy shimmed open. Too bad
too. They really did fit nice.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BDStobbe <70743.2727(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Here's something that worked so well for me I had to share it:
If you're like me, you wait until you have to before riveting parts together -
this is one of the first lessons you learn when building an RV and it almost
always works to your benefit. However, you also have to be careful not to turn
an easy rivet-setting job into one that might be impossible later on.
Well, I forgot to set the (4) rivets that attach the floor stiffeners to the
center-most engine mounting brackets before riveting on the belly pan. Although
these rivets might not be impossible to set using standard tools, they are very
difficult to get to, and I couldn't quite get a straight shot at them with
either the gun or the squeezer because the floor stiffeners would interfere.
While I was admiring my stupidity it occured to me that the squeezer only needed
to be on a slight angle in order to clear all obstructions. In fact, it
measured out to be less than 10 degrees. Hey, if I made some dies to fit my
squeezer with faces on a 10 degree angle, then the squeezer could be held at 10
degrees and the rivets could be set straight-on by the angled faces of the dies!
I made two dies with the 10 degree faces and the idea worked perfectly.
Although I machined mine using a milling machine and a lathe, I think you could
make a passable set by grinding two of the taller flush sets that Avery sells.
When you're done you have a flush die set that will work in many difficult areas
where the squeezer only needs to be angled slightly.
Hey, does he already offer angled dies? If so, nevermind...
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6; N508RV
fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Sliding canopy rear skirts |
Dave ,
Before you do another set of resr skirts try just triming the ones you got.
trim the aft end a little and see if the canopy does not close better. let me
know....george Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PhilipR920(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | flap position indicator |
Seems that a flap position indicator would be a worthwile instrument with
electric flaps.
However, I haven't seen anything on this in the short time I have been on the
list, and didn't find anything in an archive search for '95 & '96.
Anyone have experience with subject?
Phil Rogerson
6AQ-60057
philipr920(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | flap position indicator |
Phil, Make it simple. You can paint marks on the Leading edge of the Flap
to indicate degrees. Just line the mark up with the top skin overhang. This
will work great and is fail proof.
Dave, RV-6
---------------------
From: aol.com!PhilipR920(at)matronics.com
Date: 96-12-26 18:40:08 EST
Seems that a flap position indicator would be a worthwile instrument with
electric flaps.
However, I haven't seen anything on this in the short time I have been on the
list, and didn't find anything in an archive search for '95 & '96.
Anyone have experience with subject?
Phil Rogerson
6AQ-60057
philipr920(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Lewis <lewy(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: flap position indicator |
aol.com!PhilipR920(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Seems that a flap position indicator would be a worthwile instrument with
> electric flaps.
>
> However, I haven't seen anything on this in the short time I have been on the
> list, and didn't find anything in an archive search for '95 & '96.
>
> Anyone have experience with subject?
>
> Phil Rogerson
> 6AQ-60057
> philipr920(at)aol.com
Just seems too easy to look out to see what position they're in. In just
a few flights it becomes second nature to just look. Just paint short
lines on the exposed portion of the leading edge of the flaps as an
indicater.
--
Just an opinion mindya
Starduster SA-100 4/sale
lewy(at)pacbell.net
__________|__________
\ \_0_/ /
__\___(_+_)___/__
|/ \|
|...........................|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | flap position indicator |
------Begin forward message-------------------------
Seems that a flap position indicator would be a worthwile instrument with
electric flaps.
However, I haven't seen anything on this in the short time I have been on
the
list, and didn't find anything in an archive search for '95 & '96.
Anyone have experience with subject?
Phil Rogerson
6AQ-60057
philipr920(at)aol.com
Phil
The best flap indicator in a RV-6 is look at the flap position,
visability is so good out of a -6 that it is easy to see the
position of the flaps. IMHO.
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First Flight July 14,1989
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: flap position indicator |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic w Stucklen) |
Listers:
Before I changed over from manual flaps to electrics, I marked the
manual flap positions onto level aileron inside ribs with a black magic
marker. The initial idea was to have a good indicator for the full down
(40*) position. I did mark ALL the manual flap setting also, and these
have now become the electric flap angle indicator. When asked how I see
them in the dark, I usually reply " why do I need to see them?".
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N925RV
writes:
>Seems that a flap position indicator would be a worthwile instrument
with
>electric flaps.
>
>However, I haven't seen anything on this in the short time I have been
on the
>list, and didn't find anything in an archive search for '95 & '96.
>
>Anyone have experience with subject?
>
>Phil Rogerson
>6AQ-60057
>philipr920(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: flap position indicator |
Contact MAC Electric Trim Systems @ ( 619) 598-0592. He has a flap position
indicator system that works similar to his trim unit but only indicates
position.
Chris May
RV-4 N595CM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Puckett <71155.2336(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Engine inspection |
Hello,
I have put a down payment on a used mid time IO-360 in San Jose, CA and I now
have two choices.
1) Pay $350 to ship it to Colorado and get a shop to inspect it here, and if
inspection fails spend 350 to send it back
2) Drive my truck to CA and have someone?? inspect it for me there and drive it
back.
Much less risky to go with option 2, but what a pain in the #%$. What I need
help on is this, do any of you "Bay Area" builders know of a good engine shop in
the area to take it to, or are any of you willing(with compensation of course)
and able to do a mini inpection with me or know someone who would. I guess all
that could really be done is a cold compression check and a crank runout check,
but I really don't know didilly about it.
If I do go with option 1, does anyone know of what is the best/cheapest(I know
the two don't go together) to ship an A/C engine?
Thanks in advance
Any suggestion on this will be greatly
appreciated!!
Greg Puckett 80081
71155.2336(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: flap position indicator |
Phil, Once you start flying the RV, you will realize that there are only
three flap positions, and two of those are easy to find. The three are:
No flaps, used for flight over 100mph, 1/2 flaps, or thereabout, used
for take-off if you desire, and in the pattern once the speed gets down to
100mph, and full flaps, used for final approach. The marks on the flaps
as described below are very effective, since the flaps are within easy
view. Put your energy into completing the plane, features can be added
later, when you are going through builder withdrawl syndrome after
completing the plane.
>Phil, Make it simple. You can paint marks on the Leading edge of the Flap
>to indicate degrees. Just line the mark up with the top skin overhang. This
>will work great and is fail proof.
>
>Dave, RV-6
>---------------------
>Forwarded message:
>From: aol.com!PhilipR920(at)matronics.com
>Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Reply-to: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: 96-12-26 18:40:08 EST
>
>Seems that a flap position indicator would be a worthwile instrument with
>electric flaps.
>
>However, I haven't seen anything on this in the short time I have been on the
>list, and didn't find anything in an archive search for '95 & '96.
>
>Anyone have experience with subject?
>
>Phil Rogerson
>6AQ-60057
>philipr920(at)aol.com
>
>
>
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sliding canopy rear skirts |
>Dave ,
> Before you do another set of resr skirts try just triming the ones you got.
>trim the aft end a little and see if the canopy does not close better. let me
>know....george Orndorff
>
Dave,
Stan VanGrunsven did the same thing and had the canopy skirts resting on the
fuselage. He then trimmed the bottom of the skirts to the fuselage and
ended up with a very tight canopy, probably better than the one on Van's -6T.
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine inspection |
Greg Puckett wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I have put a down payment on a used mid time IO-360 in San Jose, CA and I now
> have two choices.
>
> 1) Pay $350 to ship it to Colorado and get a shop to inspect it here, and if
> inspection fails spend 350 to send it back
>
> 2) Drive my truck to CA and have someone?? inspect it for me there and drive
it
> back.
>
> Much less risky to go with option 2, but what a pain in the #%$. What I need
> help on is this, do any of you "Bay Area" builders know of a good engine shop
in
> the area to take it to, or are any of you willing(with compensation of course)
> and able to do a mini inpection with me or know someone who would. I guess all
> that could really be done is a cold compression check and a crank runout check,
> but I really don't know didilly about it.
>
> If I do go with option 1, does anyone know of what is the best/cheapest(I know
> the two don't go together) to ship an A/C engine?
>
> Thanks in advance
> Any suggestion on this will be greatly
> appreciated!!
>
> Greg Puckett 80081
> 71155.2336(at)compuserve.com
Try Vern Miller's at Reid Hillview in San Jose.
Ed Cole
emcole(at)concentric.net
RV6A Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: flap position indicator |
Phil, IPut an indicator sys in using LED Lights in a bar and a reostat set up
.Works great, looks neat and guess what I never look at the stupid thing
except at night. The guys sujesting the marks on the leading edge of the flap
skin are right. Its simple and easy to see. Soon you wont even be looking for
the marks, Just a quick glance out the window at the flap position and you
will know where you want them. Ryan RV4131RB.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred New <fred(at)ics.ee> |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
On Fri, 20 Dec 1996, Tedd McHenry wrote:
> I can't see any reason for flying without the pitot heat on. =20
> ^^^^^^
Someone has probably already mentioned this, but how about when the=20
alternator fails?
--
Fred New, Systems Administrator (RV-6A, dreaming and thinking)
IC Systems | Mustam=E4e tee 12 | EE0006 Tallinn | Eston=
ia
Internet--fred(at)ics.ee voice--(372) 656-5477 fax--(372) 656-5476
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BDStobbe <70743.2727(at)CompuServe.COM> |
>>Richard Jorgensen wrote:
>>SNIP...
Are there many things the that you can build for the plane that requires a
lathe of a mill?<<
So far the only other things I have used machine tools for are to make custom
bucking bars and rivet sets, but then I'm not quite up to the really fun stuff
yet... IMO a bandsaw and a drill press would be much higher on my list of
helpful (but not absolutely necessary, mind you) tools.
BTW, if you are contemplating building an RV - get going. My biggest regret so
far is that I didn't start this thing 10 years ago...
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6
(hey, this thing is starting to look like an airplane)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV6 Steel Jig for rent. |
Having built the second RV6 off of our home made steel RV6 jig, we (another
builder friend and I) would like to see it get used some more, yet wish to
keep it in the family so to speak........DON"T TELL OUR WIVES.....CONTRARY TO
THIER BELIEFS, THIS MAY NOT BE THE LAST PLANE WE BUILD! Never sell those
tools!!
This jig tears down into 2 parts which will fit in a small pick up truck.
It's outer frame is heavy 3" steel angle iron. We have 4X4 wood cross
pieces bolted to it. We have cut plywood discs for bulkheads. And being
experienced, it has numerous markings to follow if you dare.
Once it is leveled and you go to construction you can stand on it, rivet on
it, hammer on it, it really holds things in place well, as it should for it
weighs @ 350+ pounds we figure.
The deal.......$100.00 for say up to a 6 months? Negotiable........?
Swear you'll take good care of it. Store it inside.
Don't paint parts on it, ( For we varnished the wood and painted the steel).
You pick it up in Syracuse NY.
Leave us a deposit of $300.00 cash.
And upon your return of it to Syracuse we'll refund you $200.00 Cash.
Any interest, even a couple of years from now? Keep this E'mail address.....
It is available right now. Thanks.
David McManmon McManD(at)aol.com
Cicero, NY
(RV6, 0320H2AD, Tip Up, Getting ready to start canopy frame fitting and
designing the final (for now) front accesable, servicable dash board
arrangement.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 5th point seat belt hook up point |
Noticed my first issue to the list was lost....
and so was most of my verbage. For the archives we...
Held a mini forum off RV list, @ Thanksgiving time.
Group:
McManD(at)oal.com (David McManmon, of Cicero NY.)
75472.372(at)CompuServe.COM (Stan Blanton, of Lubbock, TX.)
tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com (Mark LaBoyteaux, of Tulsa, OK.)
kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com (Kevin Lane, of Portland OR.)
If you'd like drawings:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------
E'mail me at (this part only)
McManD(at)oal.com
ask for reply with Fax file drawing attached, labeled as: 5thptR3.awd
to your E'mail address.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------
Basically I made a "U" bracket at @ 15" forward of the rear wing spar
bulkhead. Rivet it to the floor and to F617 and F618 floor ribs (preferably
to the ribs prior to fusalabe skeleton final assemble and well befopre
skinning!)
Page 1
Review Fax drawing attached, labeled as: SB5ptR1
D. McManmon's RV6 fininshed design to retro-fit into a skinned, flipped over
ready for floor skin installation, 5th point seat belt. Made mostly with
heavier bolts, .125" thick angles, and .063" sheet and doublers. Might be
heavier and over engineered, probably easier to make and retro fit into a
skinned fuselage project, due to fitting 3/4" side angles to flush side
walls of F617-F618 webs?
Page 2
Review Fax drawing attached, labeled as: SB5ptR1
S. Blanton's design concept, clean sheet approach (modified slightly?) make
out of .063" sheet, ie: if Van's were to supply it?. The pull out force is
probably more than adequately designed. I could and would have easily fit
this in, while in the seat floor cleco'd into place fuselage construction
stage. Fit into to side walls/webs first, letting this new bracket extend
extra past the later to be installed outer floor skin. When Cleco'd into
place draw a straight line from side (F617) to side (F618) where outer
bottom skin will go and you have your bend line. Presto a custom fit
bracket. Rivet the whole "H" think prior to fitting the F617 and F618 ribs
in the fuselage sketeton for the last time prior to riveting!!!
Notable other considerations:
Found engineering data said that @ 10% of a harness/belts installation is to
the crotch strap.
I have had to make a plastic grommet that surrounds the strap's web from
touching sheet metal floor and cutting it. Location is just off seat's
centerline, and just below the overlapping joint of the Control stick floor
cover (removable ones) to the riveted in floor skins. I cut a oval slot in
the floor board skin and riveted on the plastic grommet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Solana" <solanas(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | edge distance for BOLT holes |
OK. so I know that rivet holes in aluminum require an edge distance of 2d
from hole center to edge of material.
But what if you are putting a bolt in instead of an expanding rivet? I can't
find any guidance.
Also, what if the material is steel, not aluminum.
Anyone have a clue?
rick
fuselage out of jig, engine ordered
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Autopilot question |
You can reply directly to John Balbierer at
jbalbierer(at)nysyr.ang.af.mil
The question is:
Has any RV'r installed the Century II autopilot in their AC?
Care to discuss with me pro's or con's?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Quickbuild heated pitot tube? |
> > I can't see any reason for flying without the pitot heat on. =20
> > ^^^^^^
>
> Someone has probably already mentioned this, but how about when the=20
> alternator fails?
I don't really have to spell out that I meant "under normal operations,"
do I? Let's not be silly.
Tedd McHenry
tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
[RV-6, plans only]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KHarrill(at)aol.com |
After sacrificing a half dozen coat hangars *and* the float pivot wires on
my SW fuel gauge senders, I finally found a combination of lengths that
produced the 33 - 240 OHM range as suggested by someone here on the RV-list.
The magic numbers are:
3 3/8" from the pivot to the bend
4 1/2" from the bend to the float
I am a little concerned that these lengths are so different from the
specifications Van includes with the senders, but they work. After
destroying the wires that came with the senders, I fabricated new ones from
piano hinge pin.
Ken Harrill
RV - 6, wings
KHarrill(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | RV building schedule |
Hi all,
Someone said:
>Rick McBride posted a time table of the times it took him for each
>component of the airplane. I used it as a very loose "guide" and
>found that I completed my items a little slower in the beginning, and a
> little faster toward the end. It was helpful to look at an item and have
>a gerneral idea of how long it would take. I'm pretty sure this is in
>the archives.
I can't find it. Can someone point me to it?
Hal Kempthorne halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. (SJC)
Debonair N6134V RV-6AQ on order!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
| Subject: | Re: Sliding canopy rear skirts |
George:
> Before you do another set of resr skirts try just triming the ones you got.
>trim the aft end a little and see if the canopy does not close better. let me
>know
It actually turns out that the aft of the canopy was sitting too low by
about 1/8-inch. This 'too low' spot was about 15 inches outboard of the
aircraft centerline on both sides. By adjusting the rear slider and
putting a shim under each UMHW block (that engage the pins), it will work
out fine. I'll have to make new side skirts, but that is a heck of a lot
easier than wrestling with the rear skirts.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russ Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
| Subject: | Shop planning tip |
For those of you who are planning your shop while waiting for your
money or your kit, here is an idea for your shop:
The horizontal stabilizer is 95" across when finished (RV4). Make your
workbench about 93" wide (instead of the convenient 96"!) and you
will be able to assemble the elevators to the horizontal stab on the
bench, leaving the counterbalance arms overhanging the ends of the
bench.
Aloha,
Russ Werner
Maui Hawaii USA
mailto:russ(at)maui.net sends to me
mailto:RV-List(at)matronics.com sends to the RV List
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bseckstein(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Long range fuel tanks |
Has anyone out there ever considered extending the fuel bays by one (or two)
more leading edge ribs? Is there some reason why I wouldn't want to do this?
I realize that the spar web doubler and fuel tank skin would need to be
replaced.
Thanks in advance for your advise
Brian Eckstein
6A main spars
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James K. Hurd" <hurd(at)riolink.com> |
Anybody got a sketch or description of a two-wing jig? Can't use
ceiling. I've got access to plenty of angle, square tubing, 2" drilling
pipe. Thinking of some kind of box structure which could be
cannibalized to make fuselage jig...
Jim Hurd RV6A New Mexico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: flap position indicator |
<< Seems that a flap position indicator would be a worthwile instrument with
electric flaps.
However, I haven't seen anything on this in the short time I have been on
the
list, and didn't find anything in an archive search for '95 & '96.
Anyone have experience with subject? >>
Phil-
I bought something from Menzimer Aircraft Components called a position
sender. If my recollection is correct, it has a 1.200" travel. I welded a
tab on the upper surface of the flap actuator tube (the forward tube that
attaches to the electric motor). You need to do some trig to find the proper
distance from the axis of rotation for the tab so that it moves only 1.200"
inches when the flap motor goes thru its 5" (I think) travel. The sender
then mounts to a small angled bracket attached to the rear pedestal support.
E-mail me direct if you need further details as it is difficult to explain
without a picture.
-Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bennett(at)healey.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: builder's tip |
The three great lies of mankind are:-
1. The check's in the mail.
2. Yes, of course I'll still love you in the morning.
3. This aircraft can be be built with a few simple hand tools
> Date: 27 Dec 96 08:32:37 EST
> From: BDStobbe <CompuServe.COM!70743.2727(at)matronics.com>
> To: Fellow builders
> Subject: RV-List: builder's tip
> Reply-to: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >>Richard Jorgensen wrote:
>
> >>SNIP...
> Are there many things the that you can build for the plane that requires a
> lathe of a mill?<<
>
> So far the only other things I have used machine tools for are to make custom
> bucking bars and rivet sets, but then I'm not quite up to the really fun stuff
> yet... IMO a bandsaw and a drill press would be much higher on my list of
> helpful (but not absolutely necessary, mind you) tools.
>
> BTW, if you are contemplating building an RV - get going. My biggest regret
so
> far is that I didn't start this thing 10 years ago...
>
> Bruce Stobbe
> RV-6
> (hey, this thing is starting to look like an airplane)
>
>
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 working inside fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV building schedule |
Give me a few days, since I'm out of town on vacation, and I'll put it on the
list
Rick McBride
RICKRV6(at)aol.com
RV6 N523JC
RV8 80027
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Osterman III" <PineRanch(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Long range fuel tanks |
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of
aol.com!Bseckstein(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 27, 1996 7:05 PM
Subject: RV-List: Long range fuel tanks
Has anyone out there ever considered extending the fuel bays by one (or two)
more leading edge ribs? Is there some reason why I wouldn't want to do this?
I realize that the spar web doubler and fuel tank skin would need to be
replaced.
Thanks in advance for your advise
Brian Eckstein
6A main spars
The Oct 95 issue of RVator has a description and drawing of "bladder busting"
wing extension tanks developed by Farn Reed of Grants Pass, Oregon.
Paul Osterman
RV6A - Dimpling wing skins
Anderson, Ca
PineRanch(at)msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin/Theresa Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | RV-8 builder in Miami area? |
I'm going to be in the Miami area from about Jan 6th to 21st. Are there
any RV-8 builders who would be interested in talking to a hopeful RV-8
builder?
Kevin Horton
hopeful RV-8 builder (lurking and gather info, tools, etc)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca
Ottawa, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Long range fuel tanks |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic w Stucklen) |
Listers:
This MIGHT be a consideration if you plan on using a O-360 because of
its fuel burn charactoristics. In my -6A, I have an O-320-D1A that only
burns 8 Gals/Hr at cruise. (assuming 2300 RPM, 150-160 MPH). At high
altitudes this actually goes lower, resulting in about 4.5 Hours to Fuel
exhaustion. I have done several long trips of 3.5 Hr duration, both IFR
& VFR, confirming these numbers.
I don't know about the rest of you, but my blader is screeming long
before the fuel tanks are dry. So why the need for excess fuel?
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N925RV
writes:
>Has anyone out there ever considered extending the fuel bays by one (or
two)
>more leading edge ribs? Is there some reason why I wouldn't want to do
this?
> I realize that the spar web doubler and fuel tank skin would need to be
>replaced.
>
>Thanks in advance for your advise
>
>Brian Eckstein
>6A main spars
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ElectroAir Electronic Ignition |
I'm in the process of selecting an electronic ignition and I'm curious as to
how you feel about the unit after installation and what you're initial
reaction is. I have an RV-4 which was finished in 1993 which has about 400
hours SMOH and I have been having a few problems with the magneto's and
reading some very interesting reports on electronic ignition systems. My
interest is in the Klaus Savier and Electroair systems and I'm leaningtowards
the Electroair as it seems to be a more staight forward installation. What
are your thoughts?
Best Regards,
Wrgway
December 16, 1996 - December 28, 1996
RV-Archive.digest.vol-cg