RV-Archive.digest.vol-ch

December 28, 1996 - January 08, 1997



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From: N595CM(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 28, 1996
Subject: Re: RV-4 C.G. & empty weight comparison
My RV-4 came out heavy due to extra paint and equyipment as well as the fact that this was my first RV. I would like to compare my RV-4 to other RV-4's. I'm especially interested in empty C.G. location. Mine is 60.33" and 998lbs. Any responses will be appreciated. Chris May RV-4 N595CM (100 hrs.) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 1996
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: RV-4 C.G. & empty weight comparison
> My RV-4 came out heavy due to extra paint and equyipment as well as the fact >that this was my first RV. I would like to compare my RV-4 to other RV-4's. >I'm especially interested in empty C.G. location. Mine is 60.33" and 998lbs. >Any responses will be appreciated. > Chris May > RV-4 N595CM (100 hrs.) Chris, My RV-4 (N894RV) O-320 with wood prop, weighed 952 and the CG was 8.7 aft of the leading edge (58.7). Van's now uses 60" as a reference, so beware of the number, unless the reference is defined. I'm just installing an O-360 with a wood prop so we will see how it changes. Bill Bill RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV flying hours. These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bseckstein(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 28, 1996
Subject: Re: Long range fuel tanks
<< I don't know about the rest of you, but my blader is screeming long before the fuel tanks are dry. So why the need for excess fuel? >> Often I fly into small airports that don't have fuel. I take people for rides, and I go home. I have always found a tree to duck behind, but finding fuel is harder. Brian Eckstein 6A wing spars ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 1996
From: Dana Breda <rv6av8r(at)ols.net>
Subject: Rv-6 Brake pads & pant/tire clearance
I should have advised the list: The Condors are indeed a bit taller. I had set my pants too close to the tires to begin with, and had a little rubbing with the original McCreary's. When I put on the Condor's, I had to redo the pants (I raised 'em up 3/8" above the Condor's altogether). If I was building again, I'd allow 1/2" or so above the tires Van sent for clearance. I'd trade what little drag it might cost to be sure I could use any tire I wanted without having to rebuild the &^%#$ things. Before you fly, you don't think about this sort of thing... Dana Breda N138DB in NC >Dana! >Your comments on the Condor (Michlin) tires confirms what I have discovered. >Got about 200 hours out of the original tires from Van's (McCreary). Now have >400 hours on the Condors and it is almost time to change them. Double the >time is worth the few bucks more the Condor's cost. Van was shipping the >Condors,for a period of time I believe, a while back but they are apparently >a little taller than some of the other tires and causing some rubbing >problems where tire clearance was not set just right for the fairings. A >friend of mine also uses the Condors and has had execellent service from them >too. Of course, landing surface, landings per hour, gear alignment, and pilot >skill are the major varables affecting tire wear so comparisons's have to be >made by the individual based upon his own experience. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Dec 28, 1996
Subject: Re: RV-4 C.G. & empty weight comparison
>> My RV-4 came out heavy due to extra paint and equyipment as well as the fact >>that this was my first RV. I would like to compare my RV-4 to other RV-4's. >>I'm especially interested in empty C.G. location. Mine is 60.33" and 998lbs. >>Any responses will be appreciated. >> Chris May >> RV-4 N595CM (100 hrs.) > >Chris, My RV-4 (N894RV) O-320 with wood prop, weighed 952 and the CG was >8.7 aft of the leading edge (58.7). Van's now uses 60" as a reference, so >beware of the number, unless the reference is defined. I'm just installing >an O-360 with a wood prop so we will see how it changes. Bill >Bill >RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV >flying hours. >These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or >position of my employer. > Chris: My 4 (O-360, C/S, IFR) was 985. CG was 9.48 aft of leading edge or 69.48 using 60" datum. I installed the battery in the back to offset the heavier engine/prop combination. I found that moving the battery back added about 10 lbs to the tailwheel weight. Some guys have found the 360 C/S installations nose heavy, I'm pleased with the feel at the current CG. Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying 220 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 1996
From: d shipman <innovate(at)dallas.net>
Subject: dallas rv-3
Hello everyone: Are there any RV-3's in the Dallas area? I am 6'2" and 205lbs of pure beef cheeseburgers and wondering if I can fit into a -3. Please reply directly by e-mail to: David Shipman innovate(at)dallas.net Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James & Connie Bryan" <jbr658(at)airmail.net>
Subject: Re: dallas rv-3
Date: Dec 28, 1996
It'll be a tight squeeze Bubba. But if you still want to try it on, check out Aero Country A/P in Frisco ---------- > From: d shipman <dallas.net!innovate(at)matronics.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: dallas rv-3 > Date: Saturday, December 28, 1996 6:47 PM > > Hello everyone: > > Are there any RV-3's in the Dallas area? > > I am 6'2" and 205lbs of pure beef cheeseburgers and wondering if I can > fit into a -3. > > Please reply directly by e-mail to: > > David Shipman > innovate(at)dallas.net > > Thanks > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LesDrag(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 29, 1996
Subject: Re: ElectroAir Electronic Ignition
<< My interest is in the Klaus Savier and Electroair systems and I'm leaning towards the Electroair as it seems to be a more straight forward installation. What are your thoughts? Best Regards, Wrgway >> Klaus Savier has just finished a redesign of his EI system. Klaus' new EI trigger unit installs where the mag was removed. And it has a built in timing capability. You might give him a call at (805) 933-3299, and talk to him about it. (You might mention that you heard about it on the rv-list.) Jim Ayers LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder LesDrag(at)aol.com Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LesDrag(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 29, 1996
Subject: Re: dallas rv-3
<< I am 6'2" and 205lbs of pure beef cheeseburgers and wondering if I can fit into a -3. Please reply directly by e-mail to: David Shipman innovate(at)dallas.net >> Hello David, Van designed the RV-3 for pilots up to 6' 4". I'm only 5' 10", but I have about 4" of cushion under me in the RV-3. I have found that I lose about 1 mph for every 15 pounds of additional weight in the RV-3. 205 pounds should be fine, from a weight and balance standpoint. (205 sounds light to me, but I believe I exceed the bubba scale.) When I initially installed the LOM engine, the minimum pilot weight was 193 pounds before I moved the battery box. Jim Ayers LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder LesDrag(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: McManD(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 29, 1996
Subject: 5th pt seat belt hook up (Email address corrected)
My E'mail address was wrong in the first post, sorry. Shucks now I'll become the target of the archive huggers, spell checkers and the grammer police of the RV list....... anyways, re-issued it is: <<<<<<>>>>>>>> Noticed my first issue to the list was lost.... and so was most of my verbage. For the archives we... Held a mini forum off RV list, @ Thanksgiving time. Group: McManD(at)aol.com (David McManmon, of Cicero NY.) (e'mail address corrected 12/29/96) 75472.372(at)CompuServe.COM (Stan Blanton, of Lubbock, TX.) tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com (Mark LaBoyteaux, of Tulsa, OK.) kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com (Kevin Lane, of Portland OR.) If you'd like drawings: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------- E'mail me at (this part only) McManD(at)aol.com ( 'mail address corrected 12/29/96) ask for reply with Fax file drawing attached, labeled as: 5thptR3.awd to your E'mail address. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------- Basically I made a "U" bracket at @ 15" forward of the rear wing spar bulkhead. Rivet it to the floor and to F617 and F618 floor ribs (preferably to the ribs prior to fusalabe skeleton final assemble and well befopre skinning!) Page 1 Review Fax drawing attached, labeled as: SB5ptR1 D. McManmon's RV6 fininshed design to retro-fit into a skinned, flipped over ready for floor skin installation, 5th point seat belt. Made mostly with heavier bolts, .125" thick angles, and .063" sheet and doublers. Might be heavier and over engineered, probably easier to make and retro fit into a skinned fuselage project, due to fitting 3/4" side angles to flush side walls of F617-F618 webs? Page 2 Review Fax drawing attached, labeled as: SB5ptR1 S. Blanton's design concept, clean sheet approach (modified slightly?) make out of .063" sheet, ie: if Van's were to supply it?. The pull out force is probably more than adequately designed. I could and would have easily fit this in, while in the seat floor cleco'd into place fuselage construction stage. Fit into to side walls/webs first, letting this new bracket extend extra past the later to be installed outer floor skin. When Cleco'd into place draw a straight line from side (F617) to side (F618) where outer bottom skin will go and you have your bend line. Presto a custom fit bracket. Rivet the whole "H" think prior to fitting the F617 and F618 ribs in the fuselage sketeton for the last time prior to riveting!!! Notable other considerations: Found engineering data said that @ 10% of a harness/belts installation is to the crotch strap. I have had to make a plastic grommet that surrounds the strap's web from touching sheet metal floor and cutting it. Location is just off seat's centerline, and just below the overlapping joint of the Control stick floor cover (removable ones) to the riveted in floor skins. I cut a oval slot in the floor board skin and riveted on the plastic grommet. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 29, 1996
From: Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us>
Subject: RST products
Since its winter here in Minnesota and my project is in the garage(unheated), I must switch to inside projects. I am looking at building an intercom or audio panel for my future RV6A from RST Engineering and am looking for comments/opinions from people who have built either of these kits. Primarily: A) Choice of kit (is the audio panel overkill) B) Quality of kit C) Dealing with RST D) Effect of resale value with this type of product. E) Any other tips/comments Thanks to all and Happy New Year!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 29, 1996
From: Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us>
Subject: Wingtip lights
I am looking for advice on how to mount the position lights on the wingtips for a 6A. Any photos, drawings, etc. Thanks Rick ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 29, 1996
From: Larry Hoatson <lhoatson(at)e2.empirenet.com>
Subject: Re: RST products
I have built several kits from RST over the past 10 or so years. Most recently the audio panel and remote marker beacon kits. RST went through some tough times 1-2 years ago, they were hard to reach, although they made an attempt to keep a service tech available. Things seem much better now. I had them test and calibrate my units after completion. Unfortunately, I have don't have them installed, so I can't comment on the functioning of the units. But my 10+ year portable intercom now resides on our touring bike, and is functioning as well now as the day I built it! HOpe this helps Larry -- Larry D. Hoatson lhoatson(at)empirenet.com Yucaipa, CA (L12) Restoring 1950 Cessna 170A N9948A Looking forward to RV6Q ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 29, 1996
From: Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: RST products
>Since its winter here in Minnesota and my project is in the >garage(unheated), I must switch to inside projects. I am looking at >building an intercom or audio panel for my future RV6A from RST >Engineering and am looking for comments/opinions from people who have >built either of these kits. > >Primarily: > >A) Choice of kit (is the audio panel overkill) Check out the functions to see if you think it is too much ..:^) I personally like the idea of an audio panel with a built-in intercom, and the RST prices are _much_ better than the big guys. Being an electrical engineer, I can see the difficulty in design and fab. of VHF equipment, but cannot see why Terra (just as an example) charges 80% of of Comm radio price for simple Audio Freq circuitry. This is the unit I'm going to use. > >B) Quality of kit I have built 2 of their 2 channel (later upgraded to 6 channel) VHF comm radios. The kits were easy to build, well documented, and worked well. One is still in use 20 years later (and still legal under the 1997 rules) in my homebuilt Duster sailplane. When I upgraded to a 720 channel German Dittel radio ($900 in 1980), other ground crews said my RST radio sounded better. In AZ, the two RST radios could communicate (one ground, one in glider at 10,000 ft.) from Pheonix to Tucson ... not bad for 1 watt output! The only thing I missed was the extra channels to get high flying IFR aircraft after a land out and a night spent in the desert ... that was the only reason for upgrading. > >C) Dealing with RST Very easy and good. Their repair rates are excellent if needed, making a regular tune-up of the Comm radios cost-effective. The $30 tune-up (about 10 years ago) also included a free warranty replacement of a failed IF transformer - even though the official warranty had expired. Jim Wier, the owner, posts regularly to rec.aviation.hombuilt, and answers his e-mail. > >D) Effect of resale value with this type of product. I sold one of the Comm radios after 15 years for more than I paid for the kit. Just build it carefully and neatly. > >E) Any other tips/comments Check out their web page. Solder carefully and follow the instructions. > >Thanks to all and Happy New Year!!! > > ... hope this helps .... Gil (just a long time happy RST customer) Alexander RV6A, #20701, .... final canopy stuff NOTE: when I last checked (about 3 weeks ago), the newly redesigned Audio Panel with Intercom kit was not quite ready for sale. I managed to speak to the engineer designing it, and hopefully got the final design to be just less than 6 inches deep for those of us building tip-up RV-6s and not wishing to hack too much out of the F668 bulkhead. gila(at)flash.net Gil Alexander Los Angeles, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 29, 1996
Subject: Re: RST products
Asking about RST products, you wrote: << A) Choice of kit (is the audio panel overkill) ### I put the audio panel/intercom box in my panel. Building it was fun. I still haven't aligned it. Will probably let the factory do that for me. It is overkill unless you will have lots of radios. Many switches that you will never use. My panel has a single Nav/Comm plus a ham transceiver, so I had to have some kind of audio switching capability, but the ADF and similar switch positions will forever be dummies in my panel. B) Quality of kit ###Very good, IMO. C) Dealing with RST ### No problem. He did give me the unusual but emphatic advice of not isolating the phone and mic jacks from panel ground in any way. Only time will tell how this is going to work. D) Effect of resale value with this type of product. ### Unknown. He claims to have more units flying than any other avionics mfgr, and they are legal in certified spam cans. Definitely cheaper at the outset. E) Any other tips/comments ### I'd feel much better about this decision if RST offered a stereo intercom and a clearance recorder feature, two things I think I will miss. But the engineer says he is an analog man with an allergy to anything digital, and I believe it. >> Hope this helps. If I had it to do over again, I'd do the same thing because money IS an object, but you can sure get some nicer toys for audio if you've got the bucks and can justify spending 'em. Bill Boyd SportAV8R @ Aol ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 1996
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz>
Subject: Re: RV building schedule
>>Rick McBride posted a time table of the times it took him for each >>component of the airplane. >I can't find it. Can someone point me to it? FWIW, my builder's log can be had via my WWW page. That'll give you an idea of how long it takes a inexperienced builder to do the HS & VS (control surfaces to come). Frank. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass; Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read". PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!" http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ | -------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 1996
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Long range fuel tanks
>Has anyone out there ever considered extending the fuel bays by one (or two) >more leading edge ribs? Yes. I'm also thinking about an external 'hard point' under the fuselage, to which I could attach a fuel tank or a luggage pod (to carry skis). You might also want to check out the Harmon Rocket guys; I was told they use extra tankage. > Is there some reason why I wouldn't want to do this? Added weight; weight further out on the wings affecting roll rate. Van's won't support you in this (I asked); the engineering calculations haven't been done for the extra stresses. There's also a small problem that, because of the dihedral of the wings, the outer tanks are higher than the inner tanks and therefore might force fuel out of an improperly sealed inner tank fuelcap. > I realize that the spar web doubler and fuel tank skin would need to be >replaced. Mlfred(at)aol.com (Mark Fredricks) said to me via email: >>If you want to put them on your bird, you'll need to extend the fuel tank >>attach flange, get a longer tank skin, and more tank ribs. >> >>A second tank might be better/easier. >> >>I met a fella selling what looked like drop tanks at OSH last year. They mounted >>just outboard of the wing tanks. The installation looked very simple. I don't have >>his name. >>I saw Claudoi Toninni's bird @ OSH last year, and the entire LE was fuel >>tank, two per side. I don't know the total load, but I bet it was 75 gal or >>so. I don't know where you might put more, altho I've heard of tip tanks. >>Van's might be able to tell you about these. HTH, and please keep me informed of anything else you find out. Frank. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass; Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read". PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!" http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ | -------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 29, 1996
From: Ronald Butcher <rbutch(at)inreach.com>
Subject: Re: RST products
aol.com!SportAV8R(at)matronics.com wrote: > > Asking about RST products, you wrote: > > << A) Choice of kit (is the audio panel overkill) > ### I put the audio panel/intercom box in my panel. Building it was fun. I > still haven't aligned it. Will probably let the factory do that for me. It > is overkill unless you will have lots of radios. Many switches that you will > never use. My panel has a single Nav/Comm plus a ham transceiver, so I had > to have some kind of audio switching capability, but the ADF and similar > switch positions will forever be dummies in my panel. > > B) Quality of kit ###Very good, IMO. > > > C) Dealing with RST ### No problem. He did give me the unusual but emphatic > advice of not isolating the phone and mic jacks from panel ground in any > way. Only time will tell how this is going to work. > > D) Effect of resale value with this type of product. ### Unknown. He claims > to have more units flying than any other avionics mfgr, and they are legal in > certified spam cans. Definitely cheaper at the outset. > > E) Any other tips/comments ### I'd feel much better about this decision if > RST offered a stereo intercom and a clearance recorder feature, two things I > think I will miss. But the engineer says he is an analog man with an allergy > to anything digital, and I believe it. > >> > Hope this helps. If I had it to do over again, I'd do the same thing because > money IS an object, but you can sure get some nicer toys for audio if you've > got the bucks and can justify spending 'em. > > Bill Boyd > SportAV8R @ AolBill... You mention that you are using the audio panel for a ham rig. Just a question, what are you using for an antenna. I have mounted 2 mtr and 440 mhz whips on inspection plates in the past. That way they could be replaced easily. I'm looking to do something more "permenant" in the future. Any ideas??? Ron Butcher - AA6D Turlock, California ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
Date: Dec 29, 1996
Subject: Brake Pedals
I followed Frank Justices suggestion when building my brake pedals and lowered the side piece which attaches to the brake cylinder by 1/2 inch in order to slant the top of the brake pedal forward to avoid accidental braking on take off and landings. I am only installing brakes on the pilot side. The left brake pedal ended up slanting back about 1", just as Frake said it would. The right pedal, however, only slants back about 1/4". I am now going to have to rebuild one or both so that they are evenly slanted back. (I don't HAVE to but it seems to me that it would be odd to have the brake pedals at different angles) My suggestion to those who haven't built the pedals yet.....Don't rivet on the inside pieces which attach to the brake cylinder, just clamp them in place. Install into the rudder pedals with the brake cylinders and postion the pieces up or down to get the slant you want and to get them even on both sides. Ross Mickey 6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert P. Ollerton" <lizard(at)primenet.com>
Date: Dec 29, 1996
Subject: Re: Painting Steel
The correct process for metal-prep on steel is to NOT wash it off, but to wipe it dry with clean lint free cloths. Avoid paper towels, they will shred. If you must wash steel parts, use hot water, it will flash off faster and the part will dry before much rust sets in. If the metal prep leaves a white milky film, you left too much on the part. Re-wet it with fresh metal prep and wipe it dry. If the cloth is not clean after wiping, reapply another treatment. The finished steel should be dark grey. Bob Ollerton;The only lizard(at)primenet.com Roswell, GA., / Patagonia, Arizona ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 29, 1996
From: Frank Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com>
Subject: Re: Brake Pedals
ix.netcom.com!rmickey(at)matronics.com wrote: >The right pedal, however, only slants back about 1/4". I am > now going to have to rebuild one or both so that they are evenly slanted > back. (I don't HAVE to but it seems to me that it would be odd to have the > brake pedals at different angles) > > Ross Mickey > 6A Ross, don't forget that the pivots of the left and right rudders are not inline so when you line up the bottom of the pedals they are at different angles. On my airplane the different angles of the brake pedles on the rudders resulted in them having the same relative angle to the aircraft. I followed Frank Justices plans too and it all worked out (provided you put the correct set of pedals in the forward and aft locations). Frank Smidler smidler(at)dcwi.com RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 29, 1996
From: "Gregory W. Ratcliff" <nz8r+@osu.edu>
Subject: Re: Long range fuel tanks
>>Has anyone out there ever considered extending the fuel bays by one (or two) >>more leading edge ribs? > I am in the last part of the wings on my -6A and had considered using some thin wall pipe, 6" or so in diameter and slide it into the lighting holes, have it share a vent, and plumb it to the wing root. This would add maybe at 3 or 4 gallons a side, with no real construction changes. Greg Ratcliff Gregory W. Ratcliff nz8r+@osu.edu Columbus, Ohio ICBM In the Air N1697X On the Air NZ8R ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TimRV6A(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 29, 1996
Subject: Expansion Reamer
Van's instructions for mounting the wings mention the use of an expansion reamer to enlarge the close tolerance bolt holes. The only source I've been able to find was one mentioned in the archives (Thanks to Gene Gottschalk): Thompson and Cooke 4200 Kennelworth Ave. Bladensburg, MD 20710 (800) 666-8005 (301) 864-6380 FAX: (301) 864-8749 Part Description & current prices: ======================================== L-649 Quick-Set Adjustable Reamer LTR-8/A 1/4" TO 9/32" $ 51.88 LTR-4/A 3/8" to ?? $ 57.90 I need a 1/4" reamer for the control stick bushing, and I'd rather buy an adjustable one now if I'm likely to need it in the future anyway for the close tolerance holes. Any comments on how well the adjustable reamers work, and/or how likely it is that I'll need one to fit my NAS bolts? Thanks, Tim Lewis RV-6AQ Installing control stick this week TimRV6A(at)aol.com, Capntim(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 29, 1996
From: finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen)
Subject: Aluminum bonding agent
Can anyone recommend an aluminum to aluminum bonding agent (adhesive, glue...). It should be heat resistant up to maybe 200 F. I'm manufacturing my rotary engine mounting plate, reinforced with T6 angles along the sides. In addition to riveting/bolting, I'd like the added strength of also bonding the angles to the plate. Finn finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 29, 1996
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: Why ream?
>Van's instructions for mounting the wings mention the use of an expansion >reamer to enlarge the close tolerance bolt holes. The only source I've been >able to find was one mentioned in the archives (Thanks to Gene Gottschalk): > > Thompson and Cooke > 4200 Kennelworth Ave. > Bladensburg, MD 20710 > (800) 666-8005 > (301) 864-6380 > FAX: (301) 864-8749 > > Part Description & current prices: > ======================================== > L-649 Quick-Set Adjustable Reamer > LTR-8/A 1/4" TO 9/32" $ 51.88 > LTR-4/A 3/8" to ?? $ 57.90 > >I need a 1/4" reamer for the control stick bushing, and I'd rather buy an >adjustable one now if I'm likely to need it in the future anyway for the >close tolerance holes. Any comments on how well the adjustable reamers work, >and/or how likely it is that I'll need one to fit my NAS bolts? > >Thanks, > >Tim Lewis >RV-6AQ >Installing control stick this week >TimRV6A(at)aol.com, Capntim(at)aol.com > Tim, I do not have a suggestion about the reamer, but I do have something pertinent! The control stick pivots on the bushing. Tne bushing does not rotate on the bolt. Therefore, the hole for the bolt does not need to be a tolerance hole. The bushing should be just slightly longer than the hole it is in. Then tighten the bolt until the bushing does not rotate in the control column. The stick mount will then rotate on the fixed bushing. Typically the holes in the spar do not need to be reamed. Bill Bill RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV flying hours. These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OrndorffG(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 30, 1996
Subject: Re: RST products
Rick, Becki and I have the RST panel in our RV6A and are very pleased with it . The kit goes together good ,the instructions are good the the people at RST were friendly. If yours works as well as ours you'll be happy ....George Orndorff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 1996
From: Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com>
Subject: Re: Expansion Reamer
I bought some reamers from Avery's, and as usual they are first class. Incidentally, I found that mounting the wings was easier than I expected. After squaring everything up, I made sure the wings were level with each other by using a digital level, accurate to 0.1 degree. I have lent this level to several builders since. Drilling for the rear spar is a bit scary, as you dare not get it wrong, but then after reaming it out, and finding that the bolt is indeed a press fit is very satisfying. John. Just finishing the wiring with no more major jobs, but 10,000 odds and ends to finish. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 1996
From: Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com>
Subject: Re: Long range fuel tanks
Fred, I was a little suprised at your numbers. I have the same engine in my RV-4. I burn 7.1g/h at 2550RPM crusing at 165mph. Maybe the altitude has s.th. to do with it. I am flying alot here between 8,500' and 11,500'. Dan Boudro RV-4 N9167Z Albuquerque, NM dboudro(at)nmia.com On Sat, 28 Dec 1996, Frederic w Stucklen wrote: ****** snip *** > its fuel burn charactoristics. In my -6A, I have an O-320-D1A that only > burns 8 Gals/Hr at cruise. (assuming 2300 RPM, 150-160 MPH). At high ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 1996
From: chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net>
Subject: Warnke Props
Will someone give me Bernie Warnke's phone number, the one in November Sport Aviation has been disconnected. -- Chet Razer crazer(at)egyptian.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: sheinlein(at)VNET.IBM.COM
Date: Dec 30, 1996
Subject: Not-so-basic riveting basics
Well, I had the local EAA multiple-RV-building guru inspect my wing spars last night and he scared the crap outta me on two points. I'd like to hear from anyone out on RV-list-land to see what you think about this... especially from people who have built their own spars. 1. Looking at the shop head of a rivet, you'll notice that it is a perfect circle when you look at it straight-on. Now, look at it from the side. It is a barrel shape (right)? When I measured my shop heads, I did so with a gauge that has a slot cut in it. (That's what we all use, right?) This really measures the fattest part of the barrel. Well, the inspector used calipers and measured the width of the shop head right at the base. This measurement is really the narrowest part of the shop head (bottom of the barrel). As a result, about 30 of my #6 rivets had shop heads that were not fat enough! Q: What is the proper way to measure a shop head???!!! I really shouldn't be asking this question at this point :( 2. Next, he pulled out a magnifying glass and took a look at the "grain" structure of the shop heads. He believes that hitting a rivet with a hammer (I used a 3 lb hammer and the C-Frame tool as shown in George's videos) causes the grains in the metal to form improperly. sigh... Basically, he said I should have used a pneumatic squeezer to form the shop head in one shot. Not in 3 or 4 separate whacks. Q: Any comments on setting #6 rivets with a hammer and how it might adversely affect the quality of the rivet? I tried to save $900 by building my own spars, but now I can't help but wonder if I did the right thing... Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated! Thanks everyone! Stephen Heinlein sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 1996
From: chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net>
Subject: Re: Brake Pedals
ix.netcom.com!rmickey(at)matronics.com wrote: > > I followed Frank Justices suggestion when building my brake pedals and > lowered the side piece which attaches to the brake cylinder by 1/2 inch in > order to slant the top of the brake pedal forward to avoid accidental > braking on take off and landings. I am only installing brakes on the pilot > side. The left brake pedal ended up slanting back about 1", just as Frake > said it would. The right pedal, however, only slants back about 1/4". I am > now going to have to rebuild one or both so that they are evenly slanted > back. (I don't HAVE to but it seems to me that it would be odd to have the > brake pedals at different angles) > > My suggestion to those who haven't built the pedals yet.....Don't rivet on > the inside pieces which attach to the brake cylinder, just clamp them in > place. Install into the rudder pedals with the brake cylinders and postion > the pieces up or down to get the slant you want and to get them even on > both sides. > > Ross Mickey > 6A Ross is correct about not riveting on the side pieces until after the pedals are installed. I riveted mine and in order to get both pedals even and slanted back at a comfortable angle I had to rivet some extensions on my side pieces. -- Chet Razer crazer(at)egyptian.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List:RV-4 Fuel pump (fwd)
Date: Dec 30, 1996
I am glad to hear there is now a fitting for the RV4 fuel pump overflow that will clear the firewall. I used an idea I saw in the RVator some time back which was to use a 90 degree silicone spark plug boot from an automotive spark plug wire. Just clamp it on with a tie-wrap and then I used the Tigon fuel proof hose to route out the bottom of the cowl. I just did the yr inspection an this has worked OK. I will get new PN OVERFLOW PLUG 1/8 from Van's now that it is avail and have it around for the next convient time to install it. Herman dierks(at)austin.ibm.com > From owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com Sun Dec 22 12:57:39 1996 > Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com > Message-Id: > Date: Sun, 22 Dec 96 10:11 PST > X-Sender: billb(at)europa.com > X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > From: Bill Benedict <europa.com!billb(at)matronics.com> > Subject: Re: RV-List:RV-4 Fuel pump > Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > > > ><< The good news is we have a little fitting (PN OVERFLOW PLUG 1/8" > > $6.75) that will fit in a stock pump and just misses the firewall. Bill. > > Bill > > RV-4-180 soon. N894RV > > Over 1000 RV hours. >> > > Bill: > > > >Can this part be installed on an assembled a/c, or is it like the oil press > >fitting? > > > >Check six! > >Mark > > > Mark, Kinda.... The fuel pump needs to be removed, but that only takes > about five minutes. I put it on my four with no trouble and another local > put it on his with no problem. I have not flown it yet, as I am not using > my old baffeling and the new one is taking a while to implement. > > Bill > RV-4-180 soon. N894RV > Over 1000 RV hours. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 1996
From: Ron Caldwell <74504.1365(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: 0-360's With No Fuel Priming Systems
Would some one who has not installed a fuel primer system on an 0-360 tell me how well does the engine start and if there are any problems (such as cold weather starts)? Thanks in advance for your help Ron Caldwell 74504.1365(at)compuserve.com RV6A N655RV- Reserved ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Long range fuel tanks
From: wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen)
Date: Dec 30, 1996
Dan, Most of our flying out here in the flatlands (east coast) is down low. I do better at higher altitudes, and that explains the 4.5 Hrs to exhaustion number. By the time I climb up to 8000' - 11000' area I've burned over the 8 Gal/Hr, then get it back again in cruise up there. I am still using a mag's, but hope to someday be a ble to aford a CD ignition system. That should help the numbers a little. Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen1(at)juno.com writes: >Fred, >I was a little suprised at your numbers. I have the same engine in my >RV-4. I burn 7.1g/h at 2550RPM crusing at 165mph. Maybe the altitude >has s.th. to do with it. I am flying alot here between 8,500' and >11,500'. > >Dan Boudro >RV-4 N9167Z >Albuquerque, NM >dboudro(at)nmia.com > >On Sat, 28 Dec 1996, Frederic w Stucklen wrote: >****** snip *** >> its fuel burn charactoristics. In my -6A, I have an O-320-D1A that >only >> burns 8 Gals/Hr at cruise. (assuming 2300 RPM, 150-160 MPH). At high > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LesDrag(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 30, 1996
Subject: Re: Warnke Props
<< Will someone give me Bernie Warnke's phone number, the one in November Sport Aviation has been disconnected. -- Chet Razer crazer(at)egyptian.net >> Hi All, Warnke's phone number is (520) 822-1166. I believe he moved his shop out of the hangar at the airport. Jim Ayers LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder LesDrag(at)aol.com Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com
Date: Dec 30, 1996
Subject: Not-so-basic riveting basics
This truly takes the cake!! This is the most incredible thing I have ever heard in my entire life!!! I thought I had heard some beauties from "so-called" tech counselors but this is just incredible. I suggest you immediately run out and buy a Scanning Electron Microscope. You mean you haven't been analyzing the grain structure of the shop heads of your rivets all this time??? Of course, if you want to do it RIGHT, you must cut a section through each rivet and alalyze the structure all the way through. Once you have acceptable structure, you should build a wing panel and test it to destruction. You can then go back and make one for real. This means you must build at least three sets of spars but if you want it done right...... OK Stephen, come clean!! You must be making this up right? I get it now, you're pulling our leg. Geez, you had me going.... John ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 1996
From: Gene Gottschalk <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics
Steve, I used a hammer on my left wing and a rivet squeezer on my right wing. As near as I can tell I got essentially the same results both ways, although the squeezer was easier. I used the Avery rivet gauge to test my rivet set, that is, I used the hole end to determine if my shop head was large enough in diameter. If the hole did not slide all the way over the rivet head it was OK. I used the slot end to determine if the head was too thin. If the top of the slot caught any part of the rivet head it was OK. Since I riveted my spars I have had three inspections, one of which was by an A&P. All agreed the riveting was fine. I did have to cut somewhere between one third to one half the rivets to a better length to get a good set without worrying about bending them over (and I did bend some). Any more than 1 1/2 time the diameter in length was inviting trouble. I tried for about 1 1/4 diameter. I found I could remove the bent rivets without damaging the holes. I would drill the rivet through the center slightly less than 3/16 (5/32 or maybe a numbered bit, I don't remember exactly). I could "pop" the shop head off the rivet shaft and use a drill bit turned backwards in the drill press to push the remaining rivet out of the hole. I would get another opinion if I were you, and if that isn't enough call Van's and describe what you have. I think the biggest problem you have is regaining confidence in your workmanship. Many, and I mean MANY people have set their wing spar rivets with the hammer method. Good luck, don't sweat it too much, just ask a few more folks. -Gene Gottschalk geneg(at)oz.kis.net geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov >Well, I had the local EAA multiple-RV-building guru inspect my wing >spars last night and he scared the crap outta me on two points. >I'd like to hear from anyone out on RV-list-land to see what you >think about this... especially from people who have built their >own spars. >Stephen Heinlein >sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 1996
From: Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics + FREE OFFER REPEATED
Stephen, .... I guess you have never taken me up on the RV-list offer of a copy of the MIL-spec on riveting ...:^) ... It's MIL-R-47196A "Rivets, buck type, preparation for and installation of" *** FREE OFFER REPEATED **** For a copy of this spec. send an SASE with 2 stamps to: Gil Alexander 4434 Stewart Av. Los Angeles CA 90066 .... this spec will define how a rivet must be inspected. If your guru was using 1.5D as the minimum formed diam. of the shop head he was wrong. For a -6 rivet the minimum diam. is .244 inches. His caliper measurement point is probably right, but I bet he didn't use 0.244 as minimum. Your "slot guage" is probably 1.5D == 0.281, and I bet your barrel effect is not that large. Also some cracking of the shop head IS allowed, and specified in the spec., so worrying about "grain", if it is _not_ actual cracking may be excessive. Send the SASE .... :^) ... copy the spec. and give it to your guru, if it's good enough for the military, it's good enough for my RV. ... Gil Alexander (already send about 60 specs. out) Alexander >Well, I had the local EAA multiple-RV-building guru inspect my wing >spars last night and he scared the crap outta me on two points. >I'd like to hear from anyone out on RV-list-land to see what you >think about this... especially from people who have built their >own spars. > >1. Looking at the shop head of a rivet, you'll notice that it is a > perfect circle when you look at it straight-on. Now, look at it > from the side. It is a barrel shape (right)? When I measured > my shop heads, I did so with a gauge that has a slot cut in it. > (That's what we all use, right?) This really measures the fattest > part of the barrel. Well, the inspector used calipers and measured > the width of the shop head right at the base. This measurement > is really the narrowest part of the shop head (bottom of the barrel). > As a result, about 30 of my #6 rivets had shop heads that were not > fat enough! > > Q: What is the proper way to measure a shop head???!!! > I really shouldn't be asking this question at this point :( > >2. Next, he pulled out a magnifying glass and took a look at the > "grain" structure of the shop heads. He believes that hitting > a rivet with a hammer (I used a 3 lb hammer and the C-Frame tool > as shown in George's videos) causes the grains in the metal to > form improperly. sigh... Basically, he said I should have used > a pneumatic squeezer to form the shop head in one shot. Not in > 3 or 4 separate whacks. > > Q: Any comments on setting #6 rivets with a hammer and how it > might adversely affect the quality of the rivet? > >I tried to save $900 by building my own spars, but now I can't help >but wonder if I did the right thing... > >Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated! > >Thanks everyone! > >Stephen Heinlein >sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com > > gila(at)flash.net Gil Alexander Los Angeles, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 1996
From: Bruce Stobbe <70743.2727(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics
SNIP >> >>He believes that hitting a rivet with a hammer (I used a 3 lb hammer and the C-Frame tool as shown in George's videos) causes the grains in the metal to form improperly. sigh... Basically, he said I should have used a pneumatic squeezer to form the shop head in one shot. Not in 3 or 4 separate whacks<< SNIP << Hmmmmmm. WHAT! Doesn't a rivet gun/bucking bar form the shop head in several separate whacks.... Don't tell me I have to replace all the rivets I set using a gun and bucking bar... Bruce Stobbe RV-6; N508RV res ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 30, 1996
Subject: Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics
Steve, You either did a really bad riveting job or the guy looking at your project needs to spend less time in the lab and more time in the real world. Not every rivet will be perfect although we would like them to be. Here are a few of the basic rules. In order for the bucktail to have approximately the right height and length the rivet must be the correct length. You cannot use the plans to figgure this out for you! Some times the lengths are correct on the plans, sometimes not! For what we are using here is a good rule of thumb. Take the thickness of all materials being riveted together plus 1.5 times the rivet diameter. this should give you the proper length rivet. After riveting the bucktail should be 1.5 times the diameter of the rivet and perfectly round. The height of the bucktail should be one half of your rivet diameter. Now you have the basic info so we can now make a simple go no go gauge. Lets say we are using a #6 rivet. 1.5D should be 9/32nds (I hope my math is good) and our heigth should be .5D or 3/32nds. 3/32nds breaks down to a piece of .093 aluminum. Now take a small strip of .093 aluminum and drill a 9/32nds hole in it. The hole can be used as a guide for the correct diameter of the bucktail and the thickness of the tool can be used to check the height . This is only a guide and rivets should be round and uniform and close to these dimensions. If you made a mistake on a few rivets drill them out and install new ones, no big deal we all blow one once and a while. As far as using the hammer and set up you used, that is also an acceptable practice. It will work fine but you need to make sure your spar is perpendicular to your riveting set up and your rivets must be of correct lenght. It sounds to me like your rivets were to long that will give you a lopsided bucktail unless your really talented. Ive taken up more than to much space , Good luck and I hope this will help. Ryan Bendure RV4131rb ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics
Date: Dec 30, 1996
This is not as stupid as it sounds. I have read that 'over driving' rivets can lead to intergranular corrosion in the rivets. I suspect that is what this inspector was being concerned about. I think this takes years to happen (the intergranual corrosion). You don't want to over drive the rivets. Most rivets do have a 'barrel' shape to them. I would expect there to be only a slight necking down at the base however. Why not call Phlogistene (sp?) (the folks that make Van's spars) and see what their inspection criteria is? Herman dierks(at)austin.ibm.com > to: Stephen Heinlein > > This truly takes the cake!! This is the most incredible thing I have ever > heard in my entire life!!! I thought I had heard some beauties from "so-called" > tech counselors but this is just incredible. > > I suggest you immediately run out and buy a Scanning Electron Microscope. > You mean you haven't been analyzing the grain structure of the shop heads of > your rivets all this time??? Of course, if you want to do it RIGHT, you must > cut a section through each rivet and alalyze the structure all the way > through. Once you have acceptable structure, you should build a wing panel > and test it to destruction. You can then go back and make one for real. > This means you must build at least three sets of spars but if you want it > done right...... > > OK Stephen, come clean!! You must be making this up right? I get it now, > you're pulling our leg. Geez, you had me going.... > > John > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics
>Well, I had the local EAA multiple-RV-building guru inspect my wing >spars last night and he scared the crap outta me on two points. >I'd like to hear from anyone out on RV-list-land to see what you >think about this... especially from people who have built their >own spars. > >1. Looking at the shop head of a rivet, you'll notice that it is a > perfect circle when you look at it straight-on. Now, look at it > from the side. It is a barrel shape (right)? When I measured > my shop heads, I did so with a gauge that has a slot cut in it. > (That's what we all use, right?) This really measures the fattest > part of the barrel. Well, the inspector used calipers and measured > the width of the shop head right at the base. This measurement > is really the narrowest part of the shop head (bottom of the barrel). > As a result, about 30 of my #6 rivets had shop heads that were not > fat enough! > > Q: What is the proper way to measure a shop head???!!! > I really shouldn't be asking this question at this point :( > I have never heard of this method of measuring the shop head. According to my 'ASA Aviation Mechanics Handbook' the 'rivet should be driven until the head is one-half of the shank diameter in thickness and has a diameter of one and one-half times that of the shank'. The drawing in the handbook shows the measurement is made at the widest part of the shop head---not the part next to the aluminum sheet. >2. Next, he pulled out a magnifying glass and took a look at the > "grain" structure of the shop heads. He believes that hitting > a rivet with a hammer (I used a 3 lb hammer and the C-Frame tool > as shown in George's videos) causes the grains in the metal to > form improperly. sigh... Basically, he said I should have used > a pneumatic squeezer to form the shop head in one shot. Not in > 3 or 4 separate whacks. > > Q: Any comments on setting #6 rivets with a hammer and how it > might adversely affect the quality of the rivet? > Granted, if you had used a smaller hammer and whacked the rivet many times before it was formed enough, then you might have a problem. The difference in time between using a rivet gun to give the rivet those 'whacks' and how long it takes a hammer to do the same is minimal. My humble opinion (it's worth what you pay for it) is that you're fine, no problem. Also bear in mind that these measurements are the optimum; there is always some leeway. FWIW, I'm an EAA Tech Counselor, too. So now we can the 'War of the Counselors'!!! >I tried to save $900 by building my own spars, but now I can't help >but wonder if I did the right thing... > >Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated! > >Thanks everyone! > >Stephen Heinlein >sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com > > > John Ammeter ammeterj(at)seanet.com 3233 NE 95th St Seattle WA, 98115 USA RV-6 N16JA First flight August 1990 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com>
Subject: RV-8 engine for sale (IO360-A1A)
Date: Dec 30, 1996
For Sale: Lycoming IO-360-A1A 200 HP angle valve engine for RV-8. This is a 'Wide Deck' engine with DynaFocal mount. Engine has front mounted fuel injector and rear mounted prop governor. Engine was built up with the 10:1 helicoptor pistons so this should add about 10 more HP to the output (ie 210 HP). If you use 4:1 exh system you should also get about another 10HP. I talked to Van's Aircraft and they said the rear mounted prop governor will work OK in the RV8. The engine was overhauled and assembled by D&B Aircraft Engines in Oklahoma City. The crank has mains turned .010 and rods .003 under. Crank, case, and lifters were yellow tagged. The cylinders had 200 hrs total on them so they only had the exhaust guides replaced and the cylinders honed. All new main/rod bearings, rod bolts/nuts, rings, pistons. The fuel injector was also OH by Terry's in OK city but was not yellow tagged. Comes with light wt B&C starter and starter ring. The Mags are Bendix (these can be traded in on new Slick mags for about a total of $600.00. I talked to Mattituck and the price for the kit K4536 is $755.04 and then Slick will rebate $150.00 so net price would be $605 for two new mags and harness.) Or you can go with the electonic ignition route. It has a Hartzell Prop Govenor that was not OH'd. You can get a new Woodward govner from Vans for 925.00. One of the postings on this news group said that EMI in Tulsa will sell you one for $325. The engine looks very sharp and was well detailed on assembly. Color is std. Lycoming Grey paint with anodized valve covers and intake tubes. The engine has not been run. The engine did not come with prior log books so the total time is unknown. This should be a good engine for a RV-8. I expect these engines will become more hard to find as more RV-8 builders start buying them up. Price is $15,000 (14,500 if you come pick it up at Austin TX). Looking on the VanBortel Air Power home page: http://www.vanbortel.com/airpower/lyc.html The cost of new AEIO-360 is 32,389 and AirPower sells for $26,593 Factory Reman price from AirPower is 19,845 and you need to provide a core. The field OH AirPower price is 13,825 and you need to provide a core. The core charge is $6,700 if you don't have a core. Call me if interested. Herman Dierks Home 512-255-0265 Work 512-838-2831 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 30, 1996
Subject: Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics
<< Q: What is the proper way to measure a shop head???!!! I really shouldn't be asking this question at this point :( >> Boy, that EAA tech guy really knows his stuff. Magnifying glass AND calipers to check rivets. Barf. What is whith these people who can take something so simple and make it into a task that requires special tools, not to mention valuable time. The real simple way to check your rivets: 1) Insert the rivet into the drilled hole(s). The shop-side should be 1.5 times the width of the rivet (3/32 x 1.5 = 9/64; 1/8 x 1.5 = 3/16). In time (about 50 or so rivets) your eye becomes a wonderful gauge for this. 2) Bang on the rivet until the resulting width is 1.5 times of the starting width of the rivet. Feel free to use your handy sight (eye) gauge here as well. Make sure that the shop side is directly below the factory side. Hint. Don't blast your rivets in one fast pull of the trigger. Feather the trigger so you don't work-harden the rivets. This method gives you time to see what is happening to your work as well. If your air is set correctly, it should take one, but not more than two seconds to set a rivet. Forget all of that crap about heating, boiling, cooking your rivets. Its not food, its aluminum. Same goes for heating skins, just keep your shop above 70 degrees or so and keep good pressure on the skins as you drill. Use lots of clecos. If you can find a pneumatic squeezer to set your spar rivets, great. If you can't, the method that you are using is tried and true. Sounds like you're doing it right to me Stephen. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC, NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 1996
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz>
Subject: Elevator skin: elongated holes
Hi all, A bit of advice, if you please: Dimpling my right elevator skin, I've stretched two of the stiffener holes. One is the nearest to the TE on the top (arghh), the other is the second from the TE on the bottom. The holes are both large enough to see round the edge of a 3/32" rivet that's in the correct hole. Q1: How to fix this? I did scan the archive on this topic; the consensus there seemed to be to fill the hole with Bondo, but surely that won't be strong enough? My inclination is to give up my OSH Grand Champion ambitions and drill and dimple the holes for a 1/8" flush rivet. Are there any implications regarding stiffness, oilcanning, etc with either of these fixes? Q2: How did everyone else dimple those difficult holes near the TE? The initial problem was that when I bent the top skin back enough to get the Avery C-tool and hammer in, the bottom skin flexed back, especially when I was dimpling the hole nearest the TE. This caused the edge of the dimple die to be outlined in the skin, as I found out on my rudder :-(. (On the plus side, I found I could easily press these marks out with finger pressure). On the other side of the rudder, and on the right elevator, I used foam rubber squabs provide more support to the skin from underneath, and to press down on it from above, thus holding it flat. That worked well on the rudder; I'm not sure why things went wrong on the elevator. The problem (I think) was that the squabs underneath partially lifted the skin off the male dimple die, allowing it to move and elongate the holes. Frank. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass; Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read". PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!" http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ | -------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 1996
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Why ream?
Tim Lewis said: > >I need a 1/4" reamer for the control stick bushing, and I'd rather buy an And Bill Benedict said: > The control stick pivots on the bushing. Tne bushing does not > rotate on the bolt. Therefore, the hole for the bolt does not need to be a > tolerance hole. The bushing should be just slightly longer than the hole it > is in. Then tighten the bolt until the bushing does not rotate in the > control column. The stick mount will then rotate on the fixed bushing. I just have one thing to add: you don't need to _ream_ out the hole necessarily but you DO need to make it bigger somehow (I did anyway!) I used a 'D' drill bit at first, it wasn't enough. So I went to a 1/4" bit and it went in fine -- not as tight as I'd like but as Bill says it doesn't need to be close tolerance. Something between a 1/4" and a 'D' would be just right. Anyhow, the point is you probably will have to ream it out but you can use a drill to do it. The inner diameter of the welement -- now that's another story. Don't go reaming or honing it out (to clean out rust or primer or for example), or you'll introduce slop in the controls. I did this and ended up with a teeny bit of slop -- not enough to matter (this according to several people who sure ought to know) but it bugs me that it happened. Randall Henderson, RV-6 randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Rex" <jfr(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: RV-4 Panel
Date: Dec 30, 1996
I have just started on my -4 fuselage, and I need some advice. I have found what seems to be a slight contradiction in Van's manual (surprise). Near the beginning of the section on the fuselage, they recommend laying out and constructing the instrument panel. Later in the chapter, they say that many builders prefer to put this task off until fitting their canopy. Since the top of the panel defines the shape of the surface that the canopy mates to, the theory presented in the manual is that it is easier to slightly alter the shape of the instrument panel to fit the curve of the canopy frame, than to alter the shape of the canopy frame. I would love to hear from builders about which of these two methods they used, and their success, or lack of success with that method. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bseckstein(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 30, 1996
Subject: Riveting Basics
Stephan The great Tony Bingelis built his spars with the 3 whack method, see Sport Aviation, May 1993 for his contribution. Also, does your local guru advise against using a rivet gun? Rivet guns do not form a shop head in one blow (squeeze). Sounds like a case of the "bull elephant trumpeting to the herd" (I stole that from Garrison Keillor). Those rivet testers are made that way for a reason. If they needed to test the bottom of the shop head, they would be made to measure the bottom. Brian Eckstein 6A spars ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WCannon313(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 30, 1996
Subject: Re: 0-360's With No Fuel Priming Systems
I have about 300 hours behind my O-360 mounted in both a T-18 and RV-6 with no primer system of any type other than the accelerator pump in the carb. I have had no problems of any sort with cold weather starts that a little pumping wont take care of. But, of course a cold weather start in the Seattle area is one that approaches freezing. Shouldn't be a problem, if you've got a pump. Walt Cannon Prepping for paint RV-6 N36WC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Rex" <jfr(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Elongated elevator skin holes
Date: Dec 30, 1996
The solution to your problem is simple! You can order what is called a AN-1097 (cheater) rivet. This is a great little goof-up saver. It has a 1/8 in shank with a 3/32 in. flush head. They come in varius lengths, and can be ordered from Van's. To dimple in really tight places, I recomment a nifty little tool sold by Avery. It is a flush rivet set that uses a pop rivet tool and a common nail. It works especially well on thin(.016) skins. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 1996
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics
VNET.IBM.COM!sheinlein(at)matronics.com wrote: > > Well, I had the local EAA multiple-RV-building guru inspect my wing > spars last night and he scared the crap outta me on two points. > I'd like to hear from anyone out on RV-list-land to see what you > think about this... especially from people who have built their > own spars. > By the way who is this "multiple-RV-building guru" if he is on the list maybe he would like to comment. Does he also think that using a pneumatic rivet gun also damages the grain of the rivet? If your shop heads fall within the tolerance of your rivet gauge and they look good to you quit worrying. Personally I used the rivet gauge for about ten rivets then threw it away and used the eyeball method. This guy is just trying to impress you with his magnifying glass and calipers. Some builders think that if you are not doing something the way they do it then you are either a idiot or are doing it wrong. There are a lot of different ways to do the same job and get good results and using a hammer and the "c" unit is just one of the ways. -- Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 1996
From: "Anne B. Hiers" <CRAIG-RV-4.@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics
VNET.IBM.COM!sheinlein(at)matronics.com wrote: > > Well, I had the local EAA multiple-RV-building guru inspect my wing > spars last night and he scared the crap outta me on two points. > I'd like to hear from anyone out on RV-list-land to see what you > think about this... especially from people who have built their > own spars. > > 1. Looking at the shop head of a rivet, you'll notice that it is a > perfect circle when you look at it straight-on. Now, look at it > from the side. It is a barrel shape (right)? When I measured > my shop heads, I did so with a gauge that has a slot cut in it. > (That's what we all use, right?) This really measures the fattest > part of the barrel. Well, the inspector used calipers and measured > the width of the shop head right at the base. This measurement > is really the narrowest part of the shop head (bottom of the barrel). > As a result, about 30 of my #6 rivets had shop heads that were not > fat enough! > > Q: What is the proper way to measure a shop head???!!! > I really shouldn't be asking this question at this point :( > > 2. Next, he pulled out a magnifying glass and took a look at the > "grain" structure of the shop heads. He believes that hitting > a rivet with a hammer (I used a 3 lb hammer and the C-Frame tool > as shown in George's videos) causes the grains in the metal to > form improperly. sigh... Basically, he said I should have used > a pneumatic squeezer to form the shop head in one shot. Not in > 3 or 4 separate whacks. > > Q: Any comments on setting #6 rivets with a hammer and how it > might adversely affect the quality of the rivet? > > I tried to save $900 by building my own spars, but now I can't help > but wonder if I did the right thing... > > Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated! > > Thanks everyone! > > Stephen Heinlein > sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com Stephen I built my own spars and saved the 900$,and alot of other people have done the same. Not too long ago you did not have any choice, you had to build them yourself. I think most people use the C-frame to build the spars, its cheap and you have to have one any way. Except for the RV-3 you almost never hear of a spar failure in an RV It sounds like you built it according to the plans so dump the guru and find a good tech advisor. CRAIG HIERS TALLAHASSEE,FL Why cant I find a good O-320. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 1996
From: "Anne B. Hiers" <CRAIG-RV-4.@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Brake Pedals
chester razer wrote: > > ix.netcom.com!rmickey(at)matronics.com wrote: > > > > I followed Frank Justices suggestion when building my brake pedals and > > lowered the side piece which attaches to the brake cylinder by 1/2 inch in > > order to slant the top of the brake pedal forward to avoid accidental > > braking on take off and landings. I am only installing brakes on the pilot > > side. The left brake pedal ended up slanting back about 1", just as Frake > > said it would. The right pedal, however, only slants back about 1/4". I am > > now going to have to rebuild one or both so that they are evenly slanted > > back. (I don't HAVE to but it seems to me that it would be odd to have the > > brake pedals at different angles) > > > > My suggestion to those who haven't built the pedals yet.....Don't rivet on > > the inside pieces which attach to the brake cylinder, just clamp them in > > place. Install into the rudder pedals with the brake cylinders and postion > > the pieces up or down to get the slant you want and to get them even on > > both sides. > > > > Ross Mickey > > 6A > > Ross is correct about not riveting on the side pieces until after the > pedals are installed. I riveted mine and in order to get both pedals > even and slanted back at a comfortable angle I had to rivet some > extensions on my side pieces. > -- > Chet Razer > crazer(at)egyptian.net Im glad to see this, my brakes are straight up and down and very uncomfortable.......Time to climb back down there and change them. CRAIG HIERS RV-4 N143CH ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 1996
From: MiDiBu <midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: 0-360's With No Fuel Priming Systems
>Would some one who has not installed a fuel primer system on an 0-360 tell me >how well does the engine start and if there are any problems (such as cold >weather starts)? > >Thanks in advance for your help > >Ron Caldwell >74504.1365(at)compuserve.com >RV6A N655RV- Reserved > > Ron, I have flown an M20C that had a similar engine (O-360). I was teaching a new owner how to fly it. We could not get the engine to start on a cold day, even with a battery cart connected. We finally figured it out. You pump the throttle. Pump it while the engine is turning with the starter. We never had a problem after learning that. Caveats: Pump it slowly. There is a touch. You can get it to start in a blade or two with the right technique. And always, when you're going to pump the throttle, have a fire extinguisher around. I had some friends starting their 182 and they pumped the throttle to get some fuel in there. It dribbled on the ground and caught fire. No problem at that point. They pulled the airplane out of the way. However, they were using a car to jumper-off the plane. Everything would have been OK, except for the front of the car being in front of the horizontal stabilizer. The nice thing is that the O-360 engine will consistantly start when it's hot, no priming necessary. I've learned how to start a hot IO-360, but it's not fun. Hope this helps, Mike Weller RV 80187 (under construction) midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com (preferred) or mike.weller(at)msfc.nasa.gov ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 1996
From: ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: Elevator skin: elongated holes
Simple solution for this. Merely drill the holes out to 1/8" and use the NAS1097AD-4-X rivets. This rivet has an 1/8" shank and the factory head is the same size as the 3/32" rivet. Believe me, you aren't the first to need these rivets. Aircraft Spruce has them for abouit $2.53 per 1/8 pound. >Hi all, >A bit of advice, if you please: > >Dimpling my right elevator skin, I've stretched two of the stiffener holes. >One is the nearest to the TE on the top (arghh), the other is the second >from the TE on the bottom. The holes are both large enough to see round the >edge of a 3/32" rivet that's in the correct hole. > >Q1: How to fix this? > >> >Frank. >-- >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass; >Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel >Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read". >PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!" >http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ | >-------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > John Ammeter ammeterj(at)seanet.com 3233 NE 95th St Seattle WA, 98115 USA RV-6 N16JA First flight August 1990 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wingtip lights
Date: Dec 30, 1996
From: Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)highfiber.com>
Rick Osgood wrote: I am looking for advice on how to mount the position lights on the wingtips for a 6A. Any photos, drawings, etc. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------ I used the fiberglass position light mounts offered in Van's catalog. I followed the accompanying instructions for their installation. I used Aeropoxy Light to fill the modified area's weave/low spots and topped that with Stits FC-900 Feathercoat filler. I then sprayed PPG K-200 primer surfacer over the entire wingtip, then PPG DP-48 epoxy primer, then the finish coat. Lots of sanding in there between coats. I was very pleased with the results; this is a simple and attractive way to put position lights/strobes on the tips. Probably not as low-drag as the enclosed lens options, but very good light coverage. All the materials mentioned above are available from Aircraft Spruce, except the PPG products. If you are fiberglass-ophobic like I was, I highly recommend the composite materials practice kit Aircraft Spruce also sells. Includes practice materials and an instructional manual by Burt Rutan. Completing 3 practice projects from this kit gave me tons of confidence in tackling fiberglass work. I substituted West Systems epoxy due to the convenient pump dispensers offered with this product - no measuring or weighing required to mix epoxy. I got the finishing materials/sequence recommended by a local friend here in Albuquerque who has completed a Vari-Eze, a Long-Eze, and a Glasair III. Also has an RV-4 under his belt, so he can build REAL airplanes, too. Went on well past the original wingtip light question; bottom line - Van's add-on light mounts are an inexpensive and attractive option. ...installing the canopy... Mike Kukulski RV-4 N96MK kukulski(at)highfiber.com Albuquerque, NM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 1996
From: willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills)
Subject: Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics
> >CRAIG HIERS >TALLAHASSEE,FL >Why cant I find a good O-320. > > You need a bigger checkbook!!! Mike Wills RV-4 (wings) willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 1996
From: willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills)
Subject: RV-6A accident
Over the holidays the local news had a report of an experimental airplane crash in our local mountains (San Diego, Ca.). Later reports had the airplane as an RV-6 belonging to Jerry Farhat. I met Jerry once this past fall at a Chapter 14 get together while he was still flying off his hours. Both he and his wife were killed in the crash. The news people speculated that the crash was due to weather (front passing thru with lots of rain and wind). This area is known to be dangerous in bad weather; there have been 2 other fatal crashes in these mountains in the past year. Has anyone heard anything further about this accident? Mike Wills RV-4 (wings) willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N595CM(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 30, 1996
Subject: Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics
Ask this guy what is the proper way to build a submarine sandwich and to give you a written report and data to back up his findings. While you are waiting for that, finish your spars, wings, fuselage, and complete your RV go fly it and have some fun. If you want something to really worry about Just try to explain to your wife why your aviation fuel bills are larger than your house payment! Chris May RV-4 N595CM (100hrs. & wings still on) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N595CM(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 30, 1996
Subject: Re: RV-4 Panel
I built my panel first. I had a very hard time getting my canopy to match the panel. I think triming the final shape of the panel after the canopy frame is clecoed in place sounds like a very good idea to me. I think I would try it that way if I were (or maby I should say when) I do it again! Chris May RV-4 N595CM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N595CM(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 30, 1996
Subject: Re: 0-360's With No Fuel Priming Systems
I don't know if there is any real difference between your 0-360 and my 0-320 high compression 160 H.P. but I did not install a primer and my engine starts just fine, even in 15 degree weather. I decided to try it first and see how it worked without one and I am glad I did. I figured I could always add one later if it were necessary. I do have a accelerator pump on my carb. and I think that helps; the only thing I try to keep in mind is if the engine back fires there is a chance for a carb. fire if fuel from the accelerator is dumped in the air box from excessive throttle pumping while trying to start the engine. Chris May RV-4 N595CM. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 1996
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: Aluminum bonding agent
>Can anyone recommend an aluminum to aluminum bonding agent (adhesive, >glue...). It should be heat resistant up to maybe 200 F. I'm >manufacturing my rotary engine mounting plate, reinforced with T6 >angles along the sides. In addition to riveting/bolting, I'd like the >added strength of also bonding the angles to the plate. > >Finn > >finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com Finn, I don't know the temp properties of pro-seal that we use on the fuel tanks, but we use pro-seal for everything, including bonding things to the firewall. Of course, after you have used it you will know I refer to it as "Black Death"! Bill RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV flying hours. These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 1996
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: 0-360's With No Fuel Priming Systems
>Would some one who has not installed a fuel primer system on an 0-360 tell me >how well does the engine start and if there are any problems (such as cold >weather starts)? > >Thanks in advance for your help > >Ron Caldwell >74504.1365(at)compuserve.com >RV6A N655RV- Reserved Ron, Kinda depends where you live! At Van's, none of the aircraft have primers (except the -4 which has an Ellison and requires a prime to start), neither does mine or Tom's. They seem to start with no problem. As soon as the engine starts turning, pump the throttle twice and she comes alive. In colder climates, it may be necessary. Bill Bill RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV flying hours. These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 1996
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: Brake Pedals, but beware!
>Several folks wrote about brake pedals: >> >> > I followed Frank Justices suggestion when building my brake pedals and >> > lowered the side piece which attaches to the brake cylinder by 1/2 inch in >> > order to slant the top of the brake pedal forward >> > My suggestion to those who haven't built the pedals yet.....Don't rivet on >> > the inside pieces which attach to the brake cylinder, just clamp them in >> > place. Install into the rudder pedals with the brake cylinders and postion >> > the pieces up or down to get the slant you want and to get them even on >> > both sides. >> > >> > Ross Mickey >> > 6A >> >> Ross is correct about not riveting on the side pieces until after the >> pedals are installed. I riveted mine and in order to get both pedals >> even and slanted back at a comfortable angle I had to rivet some >> extensions on my side pieces. >> -- >> Chet Razer >> crazer(at)egyptian.net > >Im glad to see this, my brakes are straight up and down and very >uncomfortable.......Time to climb back down there and change them. > >CRAIG HIERS >RV-4 N143CH Just my two bits, but when you slant them forward are you loosing a little possible brake action when the rudder is fully applied and the top of the pedal hits the firewall? When making a cross wind landing, you may need to use all of the rudder when the A/C slows down. If the top of the rudder pedal strikes the firewall before the braking action takes effect, you are setting yourself up for a ground loop (Taildragger pilot = there are those who have, and those who will!) Normally the brake master cylinder will apply braking action by just breathing on them (touchy trigger), but if you get an air bubble (and some day you will, usually on the windyest (sp) day of the season, you may need as much as 1/4 inch or more of piston travel on the brake to apply the brakes. Before charging into a change here, think of all the interferences that could occur. Even the -6A need those brakes. Returning from S-N-F one year, the left brake went out on the -6A. When we landed for gas, all of our turns were to the right, sometimes 270 degrees just to make a 90 degree turn to the left. Sometimes you just made a 360 in the middle of a taxiway just to get back in the middle of a taxiway. We fixed the problem before we proceeded. Bill RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV flying hours. These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 1996
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: 0-360's With No Fuel Priming Systems
>I don't know if there is any real difference between your 0-360 and my 0-320 >high compression 160 H.P. but I did not install a primer and my engine starts >just fine, even in 15 degree weather. I decided to try it first and see how >it worked without one and I am glad I did. I figured I could always add one >later if it were necessary. I do have a accelerator pump on my carb. and I >think that helps; the only thing I try to keep in mind is if the engine back >fires there is a chance for a carb. fire if fuel from the accelerator is >dumped in the air box from excessive throttle pumping while trying to start >the engine. >Chris May >RV-4 N595CM. The carb fire is the negative of pumping, but if you pump after the engine is turning, the theory is the fire (should it occur) will get sucked into the engine. As long as you can keep the engine turning, the fire (I've never had one) will be contained. Putting the fire possibility (which is real) aside, most of us do not have primers or if we do, do not use them all that much. Most of us will not admit it, but we hit the throttle with a squirt before the engine turns. But there is that remote possibility. Of course, I've only had one line on my engine break, and that was the manifold pressure line (same as a primer line) and that would have pumped fuel over my engine if it had been a primer line. In conclusion, keep it simple. If you need it, you can always add it later as Chris stated. Bill Bill RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV flying hours. These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 1996
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: RV-4 Panel
>I built my panel first. I had a very hard time getting my canopy to match the >panel. I think triming the final shape of the panel after the canopy frame is >clecoed in place sounds like a very good idea to me. I think I would try it >that way if I were (or maby I should say when) I do it again! >Chris May >RV-4 N595CM Another repeat offender as we refer to multiple builders. What most of the builders realize is, when they complete and fly the A/C they see things they would do different. Why not put all that experience into play. Besides, to have a showplane on the first project is not impossible, but challenging. The third plane is a showplane whether you try or not, just happens! Bill Bill RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV flying hours. These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 1996
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator skin: elongated holes
>Simple solution for this. Merely drill the holes out to 1/8" and use the >NAS1097AD-4-X rivets. This rivet has an 1/8" shank and the factory head is >the same size as the 3/32" rivet. > >Believe me, you aren't the first to need these rivets. Aircraft Spruce has >them for abouit $2.53 per 1/8 pound. > > >>Hi all, >>A bit of advice, if you please: >> >>Dimpling my right elevator skin, I've stretched two of the stiffener holes. >>One is the nearest to the TE on the top (arghh), the other is the second >>from the TE on the bottom. The holes are both large enough to see round the >>edge of a 3/32" rivet that's in the correct hole. >> >>Q1: How to fix this? >> >>> >>Frank. >>-- >>-------------------------------------------------------------------- >>frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass; >>Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel >>Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read". >>PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!" >>http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ | >>-------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >John Ammeter >ammeterj(at)seanet.com >3233 NE 95th St >Seattle WA, 98115 USA >RV-6 N16JA >First flight August 1990 John and Frank, Van's has these rivets too. On page 50 of the Sept '96 catalog. We call them Oops rivet. They can be ordered in as little as 0.01 pounds for about $1.7 per 0.1 pounds. Just make sure you order it with something else (like headsets, radios, another empennage kit, you know, those big buck items) so the crating charge doesn't cost more than the rivets. I think the Boeing people call these rivets McDonald rivets, and the Mc..... Bill Bill RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV flying hours. These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 31, 1996
Subject: Re: RV-4 Panel
Joe, Bob Avery gave me some advice a long time ago that worked well. Shape your canopy frame to fit your fuselage first, shim it to compensate for the hinge and the amount it will be sitting up on the left side. Clamp your instrument panel in place. Take a scribe and trace a scribe line from the top of the canopy frame bow on to the instrument panel. If you cut your panel along this line or slightly under the line you should get a nice tight fit. It worked well for me. Good Luck Ryan Bendure RV-4 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LesDrag(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 31, 1996
Subject: Re: Elevator skin: elongated holes
<< I think the Boeing people call these rivets McDonald rivets, and the Mc..... Bill >> McDonald Douglas called them tension head rivets. They have a smaller head on the shear head rivets. (You can countersink .016 skins and have a hole remaining. Ask Gil Alexander for this spec. :-) P.S. I've read the spec, but don't remember the number.) I don't know what Boeing/McDonnell Douglas will call them. :-) Jim Ayers LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder LesDrag(at)aol.com Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "robert hughes" <hawk(at)digisys.net>
Subject: Re: Aluminum bonding agent
Date: Dec 30, 1996
The Tri-State Wing Midwest RV-Ators Newsletter April 1995 (editor Jim Cone jamescone(at)aol.com) page 4, contains the following: ["This next item comes from the Monitor Newsletter, Ron Wright, Editor. From the experience of sailplane designer Dick Schreder, who has probably experimented more with at-home bonding than anyone else in the homebuilt community; he writes, "When we first started using adhesive bonding we quickly discovered that all of the products we tested were too brittle, too weak, non-waterproof, or promoted corrosion. We finally discovered Hysol Ea9410, and have not had any problems in the ensuing thirteen years... I have about a thousand flying hours on a prototype HP-18, which has bonded wings and tail surfaces. All control surfaces are bonded with no rivets in ribs or trailing edges........."] Sounds worth investigating, but there was no mention of the temperature range characteristics for the bonded elements. Hawkeye hawk(at)digisys.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LesDrag(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 31, 1996
Subject: Re: Elevator skin: elongated holes
<< Q1: How to fix this? I did scan the archive on this topic; the consensus there seemed to be to fill the hole with Bondo, but surely that won't be strong enough? My inclination is to give up my OSH Grand Champion ambitions and drill and dimple the holes for a 1/8" flush rivet. Are there any implications regarding stiffness, oilcanning, etc with either of these fixes? (snip) Frank. >> You don't need to give up your OSH Grand Champion ambitions. What you need is a NAS 1097AD4 rivet. It is a 1/8" dia. rivet with the 3/32" dia. rivet head. Once you have the rivets in hand, just drill the existing dimpled holes with a #30 drill, insert the NAS 1097 rivet, and set. The NAS 1097AD3 rivets make riveting nutplates with flush rivets very simple, also. You can countersink .025 thick aluminum and still have a hole remaining. (Ask Gil Alexander has the mil spec on this. :-) ) Only you, and the rv-list, will know where the !097 rivets are located. Jim Ayers LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder LesDrag(at)aol.com Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 31, 1996
Subject: Re: Wingtip lights
<< I am looking for advice on how to mount the position lights on the wingtips for a 6A. Any photos, drawings, etc. >> If you're talking about a strobe/nav combo, the lens & instructions from Cheif a/c is a good looking and LEGAL setup. Not cheap, tho ($75 or so for the lens & screws & nutplates), but the instructions on how to cast the bulkheads are good. The white/blue Rocket on Hovan's web page has these installed. Of course, if you're a speed demon (like Dave Anders), you'll have to wait for the new style tips to be put into full production. Tho not from Van's, these will come with lenses, and the nav/strobe/landing light bulkheads will already be cast in. Directions for mounting the nav/strobe/position is sold with the "hump" sold by Van's. I'm still selling strobe/nav or strobe/nav/position light kits for below market prices, if you need them. Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 31, 1996
Subject: Re: Long range fuel tanks
<< Yes. I'm also thinking about an external 'hard point' under the fuselage, to which I could attach a fuel tank or a luggage pod (to carry skis). You might also want to check out the Harmon Rocket guys; I was told they use extra tankage. >> Fellas: The Rocket carries about 21.5 US gal per side- not a big enough change to mess with, IMHO. I still think Claudio's 4 tank method is the best, most practical, and best looking. You could make the outer tanks smaller, if desired. Check your own CG calculations with this added weight. The tank/hard point under the fuse would subject the tank to a bunch of heat, oil mist, and exhaust gas deposits. Bleah. And, consider the drag. Just don't forget to put in a relief tube. Check Six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rust47rg(at)one.net
Date: Dec 31, 1996
Subject: Re: 0-360's With No Fuel Priming Systems
>>Would some one who has not installed a fuel primer system on an 0-360 tell me >>how well does the engine start and if there are any problems (such as cold >>weather starts)? >> >>Thanks in advance for your help >> >>Ron Caldwell >>74504.1365(at)compuserve.com >>RV6A N655RV- Reserved > Ron : One other trick.... after you rotate the engine and pump the throttle like others have mentioned, bring the throttle all the way back. That closes the throttle plate and acts like a choke. If the engine hasn't fired by then it probably will. I've never had a problem in 2 1/2 years and numerous cool starts. (If it's really cold, preheat it, your engine will thank you) Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying 0-360 Regards: Rusty Gossard N47RG RV-4 Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 1996
From: Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com>
Subject: Re: RV-4 Panel
Joe, Waiting till the canopy is ready to fit to cut the instrument panel sounds like a really good idea to me. I've build two 4's and had a heck of a time with both canopys. Next time I'm going to try the method you described above. I wish I had read that and understood it! :-0! of course you'll need to put off the top deck too but I can't see that is any problem. Dan Boudro RV-4 N9167Z Albuquerque, NM dboudro(at)nmia.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 1996
From: Rob Hatwell <hatters(at)overvne.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RV4 Builder 3181
Dear RV Group Can you please let me know how I can get all the info from the net on RV related news groups. Happy New Year -- Rob Hatwell ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Brake Pedals, but beware!
From: wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen)
Date: Dec 31, 1996
Bill, It's interesting to see that you were able to control the ground tracking during the landing. I assume this was done on a LONG runway as you wouldn't have been able to do much with the brakes. Can you elaborate on your experience? Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen1(at)juno.com writes: **** Snip **** >Even the -6A need those brakes. Returning from S-N-F one year, the left >brake went out on the -6A. When we landed for gas, all of our turns were >to the right, sometimes 270 degrees just to make a 90 degree turn to the >left. Sometimes you just made a 360 in the middle of a taxiway just to get >back in the middle of a taxiway. We fixed the problem before we proceeded. >Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 0-360's With No Fuel Priming Systems
53,55,57,59,61,63-71
From: wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen)
Date: Dec 31, 1996
Listers: During the warm months here on the East Coast & in the New England area, primers are not necessary. One or two pumps of the throttle always starts the engine. But as soon as it starts getting cold, Throttle pumped starts become increasingly harder as the temperatures go down, and the risk factor of a carb fire increases. If I pre-heat the engine in cold weather, throttle pumped starts are easier. During the winter months, I do use a tanis heating pad on the engine, with covers over the cowl, inside a hanger. Throttle pumped starts work very well under these conditions, even when its near zero outside. The times I really must use the primer is when I've traveled away from the hanger on cold days and let the plane sit for a while. Even though I insert cowl plugs to help retain the engine heat, after sitting 8 Hrs out in zero degree weather, the primer MUST be used to start the engine. While some may argue that throttle pumped starts under these are possible, I would add that they are also very hard on the engine. Like a lot of other items, installation of a primer is optional dependent upon where you plan to fly....... and what you expect to happen when you aren't where you normally fly..... Installation of a Primer now will certainly help you out the one time you get stuck out in the cold....... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV O-320-D1A (160HP) wstucklen1(at)juno.com writes: >>I don't know if there is any real difference between your 0-360 and my 0-320 >>high compression 160 H.P. but I did not install a primer and my engine starts >>just fine, even in 15 degree weather. I decided to try it first and see how >>it worked without one and I am glad I did. I figured I could always add one >>later if it were necessary. I do have a accelerator pump on my carb. >and I >>think that helps; the only thing I try to keep in mind is if the engine back >>fires there is a chance for a carb. fire if fuel from the accelerator is >>dumped in the air box from excessive throttle pumping while trying to start >>the engine. >>Chris May >>RV-4 N595CM. > **** SNIP **** >Putting the fire possibility (which is real) aside, most of us do not have >primers or if we do, do not use them all that much. Most of us will not >admit it, but we hit the throttle with a squirt before the engine turns. >But there is that remote possibility. Of course, I've only had one line on >my engine break, and that was the manifold pressure line (same as a primer >line) and that would have pumped fuel over my engine if it had been a primerline. >In conclusion, keep it simple. If you need it, you can always add it >later as Chris stated. Bill >Bill >RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV >flying hours. >These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or >position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Yawgrw(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 31, 1996
Subject: Re: RV-4 C.G. & empty weight comparison
My 4 was 1030 lbs at 60.48 inches with the Sensenich metal prop. No problem with c.g. and up to a 220 lber in back. It may seem heavy in comparison to others, but I often wonder if people weigh their airplanes before paint and all radio installations are complete. I've been flying it for over 3 years now and as much as I respect this aircrafts two up performance I much prefer using a single seat. Wrgway ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Yawgrw(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 31, 1996
Subject: Re: Long range fuel tanks
I have a friend based at Old Bridge airport in NJ, Claddio Tonnino who has made such an installation. You might try reaching him through the airport. Wrgway ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LesDrag(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 31, 1996
Subject: Sloshing Compound Removal??
Hi All, A RV-3 fuselage tank was sloshed with the Randolph non-drying slosh that AS&S sells. Does anyone know what to use to clean this out of the tank??? It really doesn't dry. And they now caution that it shouldn't be used in aircraft. This is an early RV-3 airframe that hasn't been finished, yet. Jim Ayers LOM M332A Ivoprop 2 blade VP Prop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder Lyc. O-290 Ivoprop 3 blade variable pitch (VP) prop RV-3 LesDrag(at)aol.com Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LesDrag(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 31, 1996
Subject: Re: Long range fuel tanks
<< The tank/hard point under the fuse would subject the tank to a bunch of heat, oil mist, and exhaust gas deposits. Bleah. And, consider the drag. (snip) Check Six! Mark >> Just for reference, an extrenal store has a Coeffecient of Drag (Cd) of .25, the fuselage Cd is around .1 and the wing Cd is around .01. It will be the dirtiest part of the plane, even without the oil mist and exhaust deposits. How about adding a header tank between the firewall and instrument panel?? The basic design for the RV-3 had THE TANK there. Jim Ayers LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder Lyc. O-290 Ivoprop RV-3 (48 gallons usable?? Fuselage and wing tanks) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 1996
From: John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com>
Subject: Re: Aluminum bonding agent
> We finally discovered Hysol Ea9410, and have not had any problems in the >ensuing thirteen years... I have about a thousand flying hours on a >prototype HP-18, which has bonded wings and tail surfaces. All control >surfaces are bonded with no rivets in ribs or trailing edges. Back a few years ago when I was trying to understand composites with the idea of building a pressurized "tupperware" 4 place, I attended a couple of courses at Abaris Training one of which was on composite bonding. Great course. We spent a week building and bonding samples of various materials including a lot of aluminum bonds to aluminum, steel, graphite, kevlar etc. etc. We built em using several different adhesives and prep methods and them broke em - testing them in both shear and peel strength. The Hysol products were clear winners. A lot of them are available in small already measured plastic packages like the ketchup you get with your fries. All you have to do is break the barrier between the two components knead the package for a minute to thoroughly mix it and cut the corner off and use it. No messy mixing and clean-up. My notes are buried somewhere in the garage but, if you would give Mike Hoke a call @ (800) 638-8441 he can probably put you on the right stuff.. By now, he should be the worlds foremost authority. I took his class a few years ago and he has been running at least two a year since. He should have tons of test data. BTW: The best prep was to clean with a good solvent (MEK or Acetone) wipe clean and then sand. No cleaning step after sanding - just wipe the dust with a clean cloth. That is contrary to what most procedures tell you. They usually want to use a solvent after sanding. It is also very important to wipe the surface dry with a clean rag after using the solvent. If you don't all of the contaminates that were dissolved by the solvent are redeposited when the solvent evaporates. The key to a good bond is cleanliness. You even have to be careful of airborne particles. The slightest bit of residue from using a silicone spray or other aerosol can ruin a bond. How about a totally bonded wing on your next RV. John Top Phone: (619) 549-3556 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 1996
From: RUSS_NICHOLS(at)fire.ca.gov (RUSS NICHOLS)
Subject: Elevator skin: elongated holes
Frank et al, Q1: How to fix this (oversized holes)? A1: I had a similar problem. Dimpled a hole with the die not quite seated. Consequently, enlogated too much for a 3/32" rivet. I drilled it out and used a 1/8" rivet. Mine was on the bottom of the elevator. You have to look pretty closely to see that 1 bigger rivet. Q2: How did everyone else dimple those difficult holes near the TE? A2: I used the C-frame to dimple up to the last or 2nd to last hole. For the holes closet to the bend, I used the pop-rivet dimpler available from Avery. Easy to use and does a good job. Good luck, Russ russ_nichols(at)fire.ca.gov ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 1996
From: John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com>
Subject: Re: RV-6A accident
>Over the holidays the local news had a report of an experimental airplane >crash in our local mountains (San Diego, Ca.). Later reports had the >airplane as an RV-6 belonging to Jerry Farhat. I met Jerry once this past >fall at a Chapter 14 get together while he was still flying off his hours. >Both he and his wife were killed in the crash. > >The news people speculated that the crash was due to weather (front passing >thru with lots of rain and wind). This area is known to be dangerous in bad >weather; there have been 2 other fatal crashes in these mountains in the >past year. Mike: I don't know much more than what you have already said, but I did talk to Frank? Coast Aviation (MYF) the next day ( the day of the mid-air) and he said that Jerry was pushing it, trying to get home from Laughlin and apparently picked up some ice. He was talking to SoCal at the time, but Frank did not know if had filed IFR or even had an instrument rating. He had evidently had two wx briefings which had advised him not to try it and he elected to go anyway. It sure was not any fault of the airplane. His brother was killed pushing his luck trying to get back to MYF in a Mooney 231 about 5 years ago. Must run in the family. John Top Phone: (619) 549-3556 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 1996
From: "garrett v. smith" <blueskyman(at)msn.com>
Subject: Accident
Hi All: I have been flying commercially for 10 years now and have lost a number of friends and colleagues to accidents, as well as flown Medevacs with accident survivors aboard. Never,and I mean never, does it fail to move me when a fellow aviator is lost, especially at this time of year. Ladies and Gentlemen, out of respect for the families, leave the speculation to the Accident Investigators. The Media does us all a disservice by adding their own opinion to an accident investigation, lets not help them. " Learn from the mistakes of others, you won't live long enough to make them all yourself!" All the Best in 1997, Safe Flying. Garrett Smith ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
Date: Dec 31, 1996
Subject: Be Carefull Out there
These kind of reports from NTSB really make me feel sad so lets be carefull out there when thinking of flying our RV's in hard IFR. NTSB Identification: LAX97LA071 Accident occurred DEC-22-96 at JULIAN, CA Aircraft: FARHAT RV6A, registration: N961CP Injuries: 2 Fatal. On December 22, 1996, at 1325 Pacific standard time, a homebuilt experimental Farhat RV6A airplane, N961CP, collided with mountainous terrain near Julian, California, after encountering severe turbulence and icing conditions. The aircraft was on an IFR flight plan and clearance from Bullhead City, Arizona, to San Diego, California. Instrument meteorological conditions prevailed at the accident site. The aircraft was destroyed in the collision sequence and the certificated private pilot and one passenger sustained fatal injuries. The flight departed Bullhead City at 1215. Preliminary review of FAA records disclosed that the pilot received two preflight weather briefings and was advised of SIGMETS for icing conditions and moderate to severe turbulence. Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First Flight July 14,1989 jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 1996
From: willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills)
Subject: Re: Aluminum bonding agent
A dozen years ago there was a pretty little kit called the Moni. All metal with a bonded wing. The supplied bonding agent was made by Hysol although I dont recall the specific type. There were some problems with delamination, most likely due to prep/improper usage, and John Monnet subsequently requested all builders to retrofit rivets to the wings. There is a web site for the Moni which includes some pireps. One of those describes the in-flight delamination and crash of one of these airplanes. Its some pretty scary reading. I still love the Moni design and would probably build one if they were still available, modifying the construction somewhat to reflect what I have learned building the RV. Mike Wills RV-4 (wings) willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil >How about a totally bonded wing on your next RV. > > > > >John Top >Phone: (619) 549-3556 > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 1996
From: "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: RV-6A accident
>He >had evidently had two wx briefings which had advised him not to try it and >he elected to go anyway. It sure was not any fault of the airplane. > >His brother was killed pushing his luck trying to get back to MYF in a >Mooney 231 about 5 years ago. Must run in the family. > >John Top This same storm took the lives of four other people from the southern california area. And, until official reports state otherwise it appears for the same reason. Pushing it. Let's be real careful out there. Landing and Motel 6'ing it is better than the other 6' option. Have a safe and happy new year! Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q project: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker (last update 12/23/96 - Oshkosh '96 RV pictures) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 1997
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Elevator skin: elongated holes
>>>Dimpling my right elevator skin, I've stretched two of the stiffener holes. >>>One is the nearest to the TE on the top (arghh), the other is the second >>>from the TE on the bottom. The holes are both large enough to see round the >>>edge of a 3/32" rivet that's in the correct hole. >>Simple solution for this. Merely drill the holes out to 1/8" and use the >>NAS1097AD-4-X rivets. This rivet has an 1/8" shank and the factory head is >>the same size as the 3/32" rivet. Thanks to all who have suggested the "Oops" rivets. However, I guess I didn't make it clear enough. These holes are both stretched a *lot*, maybe as much as an extra 3/32" towards the TE. When a 3/32" rivet is in the correct part of the hole, the stretched part of the hole is still visible. Therefore using a rivet with the same size head isn't going to fix it. Unless Bondo (or something similar) is strong enough, I'm going to have to go to a rivet with a larger head. Happy New year to everyone, Frank (looking forward to the day when we can glue the stiffeners to the skins. :-) -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass; Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read". PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!" http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ | -------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 1996
From: kevin lane <kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com>
Subject: wire-feed welding
I own a gasless(flux core) wire feed welder which I use on mild steel tubing. Could this unit be used to weld 4130 if I were to build my own tilt-up latch mechanism? kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 1997
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Long range fuel tanks
>> The tank/hard point under the fuse would subject the tank to a bunch of >> heat, oil mist, and exhaust gas deposits. Bleah. And, consider the drag. > >Just for reference, an extrenal store has a Coeffecient of Drag (Cd) of .25, >the fuselage Cd is around .1 and the wing Cd is around .01. It will be the >dirtiest part of the plane, even without the oil mist and exhaust deposits. My thinking (what little I've done on this so far) was that the area under the fuselage is going to be aerodynamically dirty anyway, so adding another structure there wouldn't be too bad. Either make it a long cylindrical shape (with consequent CG issues) or fair it into the bottom of the fuselage somehow. Hadn't thought of the exhaust heat issue! *My* engine won't be allowed to spit out oil. :-) >How about adding a header tank between the firewall and instrument panel?? > The basic design for the RV-3 had THE TANK there. Definitely an option, although I don't like the idea of fuel and/or fumes in the cockpit area. Another option: I believe Jon Johansen used the wingtips to hold fuel. Frank. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass; Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read". PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!" http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ | -------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Morristec(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 31, 1996
Subject: Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics + FREE OFFER REPEATED
Bravo! This Mil spec is the one that the structural allowables that all military airplanes are designed to. Mil handbook 5 which is the aeronautical structural engineers Bible for over 40 years refers to Mil-R-47196A as the basis of acceptable riveting. The FAA just extracted some of the info from the Mil standard, and forgot to give us the rest. I doubt that you have a problem. Dan Morris A&P, IA, FAA DER- been doing this for a while... Morristec(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6ator(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 31, 1996
Subject: Re: RV-6A accident
The preliminary NTSB report lists the aircraft as a FARHAT RV-6A N961CP, colliding with mountainous terrain near Julian, CA, on Dec22 at 1325PST, after encountering severe turbulence and icing conditions. The aircraft was on an IFR flight plan enroute from Bullhead City, AZ to San Diego, CA. IMC prevailed at the accident site. The certificated private pilot and passenger were killed. Preliminary review of FAA records indicate the pilot received two weather briefings, and was advised of SIGMETS for icing and moderate to severe turbulence. Bill Mahoney RV-6 N747W Sherman, CT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Cafgef(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 31, 1996
Subject: Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics
<< This is not as stupid as it sounds. I have read that 'over driving' rivets can lead to intergranular corrosion in the rivets. I suspect that is what this inspector was being concerned about. I think this takes years to happen (the intergranual corrosion). You don't want to over drive the rivets. >> Could I have the reference to the intergranular corrosion problem. My experience is that IG is a problem due to improper heat treatment and not usually found in the alloys that are used in rivets. a chemical etching of the aluminum - Magnifing glass or not. And please don't etch a rivet on the airplane. Please remove said rivet from said airplane first in order to avoid other kinds of corrosion of the airplane. What you worry about with "overdriving" is the chance that you have yielded the metal to the point that there is a fracture (crack) under the head. The 1&1/2 diameters etc. are within easily met limits that will avoid a fracture. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 31, 1996
Subject: Re: RV-6A accident
Any accident is a terrible tragedy. We are all guilty of poor judgment at one time or another. The pilot of the RV made a decision and paid with his life. It is not for us to sit and judge hm, but instead to learn from the mistake that he made. Let's everyone have a safe and happy New Year. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BPattonsoa(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 31, 1996
Subject: Re: Aluminum bonding agent
I have an HP-18 I built in 76- 81 and still fly it. It was tied down at a contest with 60 other gliders when an drunk, PCP laced, naked driver being chased by cops hit it from the rear at 2:30 A.M. Threw the glider over the car and destroyed all the flaps and ailerons on one side. The flaps are just two skins, bonded with EA9410, about 4' long, mag. ribs at each end and foam ribs between. The one he hit with the car was debonded over about 6" , the rest just twisted beyond use. The 9410 held under very high shear loads. The stuff you buy now is not the same, mine had asbestos as the filler material, the current EA 9410 uses a different filler. I rebuilt the glider with the new stuff, and am sure it is just as good. If you dont clean the aluminum well, remove any oxidation, and bond it within about 1 hour of cleaning, the stuff will fail miserably. Some HP-18s have suffered complete debonding of their wing skins. The ones done correctly will last forever. Bruce Patton Almost finished with cowl (I HATE FIBERGLASS !!!!) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 1997
From: dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg)
Subject: Re: Penguin Humor & Canopy Non-Humor
>>Thought I would share some humor to show I still have a sense of it after >>cracking my canopy while drilling it for attachment rivets. With Van's >>quoting me $480 for a new one (plus crating and shipping, of course) I >>will come up with some cosmetic bandaid to hide my 3 inch nightmare. >> >>In the meantime, wish everyone on the list a Merry Christmas! >> >>Mike Kukulski >> >>RV-4 N96MK >>kukulski(at)highfiber.com >>Albuquerque, NM Mike, Depending on where the crack is exactly, out of the way is a nice place, stop drill it. Then cover it with a nice EAA sticker. Several RV's up here in Colorado have EAA stickers on their canopy. Kinda like pilot's in WWI did to the fabric when the Hun shot a hole into the plane. Stiched an Iron cross over the hole. The EAA sticker is now your medal that you built the plane and that you too are human. Happy New Year, Doug Bloomberg RV-6A N399DB Denver, CO dougb(at)mail.diac.com (home) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 1997
From: dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg)
Subject: Re: flap position indicator
At 12:22 AM 12/28/96, aol.com!Vanremog(at)matronics.com wrote: > ><< Seems that a flap position indicator would be a worthwile instrument with > electric flaps. > Mas Yoshida's RV-6 has a simple but effective flap indicator. He marked the inboard rib of the ailerons (pilots side) with 10,20,30,40 degree marks. You lower the flaps, the ol' one thousand one, one thousand two, one thousand three, etc. Look out and the flaps are in the general area after a few tries you have it close enough. But if you are fussy, buy a sliding potentiometer from Digi-Key and connect it to a meter movement or DVM calibrate the thing and you have a panel instrument. Bob Knuckles book should have the info needed to build one. But simple lines don't fail you, construction time is nill, design time even less, weight is low, and ya cannot beat the cost. Happy New Year <:^) Doug Bloomberg RV-6A N399DB Denver, CO dougb(at)mail.diac.com (home) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 1997
From: "Paul Osterman III" <PineRanch(at)msn.com>
Subject: Pre-punched airleron skins/6A
Listers: I'm building the 6A with the pre-punched wing skins and the B.A.C. Fast Build Wing Kit. Today I discovered that the pre-punched hole spacing in the skin for the stiffeners and the pre-punched holes in the stiffeners themselves do not match. Although the plans call out a 1 1/4" spacing, Van's vendor punched the holes at 1 5/16ths. The stiffeners from B.A.C. are punched correctly at 1 1/4". Has anybody else run into this problem? Aside from knowing that either the skins or the stiffeners need to be replaced before I can continue, any thoughts...? Paul Osterman RV6A Guess I'll be working on the flaps tomorrow Anderson, Ca PineRanch(at)msn.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 1996
From: lsmith(at)coastalnet.com (Louis E. Smith Jr.)
Subject: San Antonio builders
Hello, I will be in San Antonio Jan. 5th through 10th. Anyone that would like a hand with their project or needs someone to buck rivets, please respond to me by e-mail as I would be glad to lend a hand if needed. Regards, Louis Smith lsmith(at)coastalnet.com RV-8 #80126 wings RV-4 #2844 N102LS sold ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 1996
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: Round and round you go!!
>Bill, > > It's interesting to see that you were able to control the ground >tracking during the landing. I assume this was done on a LONG runway as >you wouldn't have been able to do much with the brakes. Can you elaborate >on your experience? > >Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV >wstucklen1(at)juno.com > > > writes: > **** Snip **** >>Even the -6A need those brakes. Returning from S-N-F one year, the >left >>brake went out on the -6A. When we landed for gas, all of our turns >were >>to the right, sometimes 270 degrees just to make a 90 degree turn to >the >>left. Sometimes you just made a 360 in the middle of a taxiway just to >get >>back in the middle of a taxiway. We fixed the problem before we >proceeded. >>Bill Fred, It was a paved runway and we did not use that much (although it was not a short landing). I think we turned off about mid-point. The rudder is very effective as long as the speed is up, and that is the case on landing. It wasn't until we slowed down that we started drifting off to one side. The rest is history. Just a few 270 and 360 degree turns and we were at the FBO. We had worn out a set of brake pads at S-N-F, and the puck in the brake extended out so far that the o-ring went past the edge of the cylinder, and the fluid shot out of the cylinder. We got a new set of pads, but the FBO did not have another o-ring which was slightly damaged. We made it home, but the brakes were leaking a little fluid until we replaced the o-ring. Isn't much more to tell! Bill Bill RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV flying hours. These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 31, 1996
Subject: Re: RST products
Gil Alexander wrote: << NOTE: when I last checked (about 3 weeks ago), the newly redesigned Audio Panel with Intercom kit was not quite ready for sale. I managed to speak to the engineer designing it, and hopefully got the final design to be just less than 6 inches deep for those of us building tip-up RV-6s and not wishing to hack too much out of the F668 bulkhead. >> GilL: FWIW I hacked my 668 to pieces for the avionics and instruments; it looks like swiss cheese. I don't think it's structural anyway, really. BTW, the old style RST audio panel is the one piece I'm sure DIDN'T require a cutoutin the 668 since it is only about 5-7/8" deep behind the front panel : -) Bill Boyd SportAV8R(at)AOL.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 31, 1996
Subject: Re: RST products
<< Bill... You mention that you are using the audio panel for a ham rig. Just a question, what are you using for an antenna. I have mounted 2 mtr and 440 mhz whips on inspection plates in the past. That way they could be replaced easily. I'm looking to do something more "permenant" in the future. Any ideas??? Ron Butcher - AA6D Turlock, California >> I used copper foil dipoles inside the wingtips, one cut for 121 MHz and the other for 146 MHz. The foil came from RST, by the way. SWR looks good "on the bench" attached to the wing but with the wing not on the fuselage. I suspect they will detune a bit in service configuration but hopefully not too much. I hope this doesn't start a thread about polarization. IMHO, losses from cross polarization are so slight as to be ignored completely when you are operating from thousands of feet AGL. Even a rubber duck works great from up there, and by rotating the handheld 90 degrees you can test for fading yourself. Bill Boyd N4DLN SportAV8R(at)AOL.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 1996
From: John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com>
Subject: RST products
IMHO, losses from cross polarization are so slight as to be ignored completely when you are operating from thousands of feet AGL Besides who knows what polarization the antenna actually sees after the signal has been reflected off the ground, the skin of the aircraft and a spinning propellar. You can safely assume that it is random. End of thread. John Top Phone: (619) 549-3556 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 1996
From: John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com>
Subject: Oops Rivets
Is there a universal head equivalent to the NAS 1097AD-4 "Oops Rivet" If so where can one find them. And, while we are on the subject does anyone know of a source for Alcoa Crown flus rivets? BTW; Boeing/MacDac must call them Lockheed Martin rivets now, or more properly Lockheed Martin Loral (Lomoral) rivets John Top Phone: (619) 549-3556 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 1997
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: wire-feed welding
>I own a gasless(flux core) wire feed welder which I use on mild steel >tubing. Could this unit be used to weld 4130 if I were to build my own >tilt-up latch mechanism? kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com > Kevin; For what it's worth, I used a wire welder (that has flux in the wire) to weld the wedges that Vans added to the brake pedals. It seems to have done fine, but be cautioned, I did not use a caliper to check the thickness, nor did I do a molecular structure test of the resulting bond :-). But I have put a good deal of pressure with my size tens, and it has lasted for 3 years of use. I believe the metal is 4130. John Darby RV6 N61764 flying Stephenville TX johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Cafgef(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 01, 1997
Subject: Re: Long range fuel tanks
<< Another option: I believe Jon Johansen used the wingtips to hold fuel. >> Jon Johansen does have wingtip tanks and a back seat full of tank also. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 01, 1997
Subject: Re: Spring Loading of Throttle and Mixture
Happy New Year to all and since it's a new year, I have a new thread. My resolution is to have my RV-6A O-360 c/s slider flying by late Spring. This posting is just to initiate a casual poll of builders to determine the value of spring loading the throttle, mixture and maybe alternate air levers. A friend of mine with a new RV-4 is doing this to his plane because he has heard random reports of broken control cables. Apparently the theory is that if any one of the three cables were to break in flight, the throttle would go full open, the mixture full rich and carb heat full on, respectively. Then the pilot could use other controls and the mag switch to cut power as needed to get the craft safely back on the ground. How real of a problem is this and how many of you have bothered to install such features? Thanks in advance. -Gary VanRemortel N1GV reserved, "heaven in '97" is my motto (figuratively speaking, of course!) vanremog(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: James Cimino <jcimino1(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator skin: elongated holes
Date: Jan 01, 1997
I bought a kit early-on in the construction of my tail. It consists of the repair type rivets everyone is talking about. (wider shank, same size head) This kit has all different sizes, and I think it was around $20.00 from Avery. I hear it does a fantastic job, (not that I've needed to use it) I did drill a few holes over-sized deliberately just to try them out though. :) Jim Cimino RV-8 sn80039 >Hi all, >A bit of advice, if you please: > >Dimpling my right elevator skin, I've stretched two of the stiffener holes. >One is the nearest to the TE on the top (arghh), the other is the second >from the TE on the bottom. The holes are both large enough to see round the >edge of a 3/32" rivet that's in the correct hole. > >Q1: How to fix this? > >I did scan the archive on this topic; the consensus there seemed to be to >fill the hole with Bondo, but surely that won't be strong enough? My >inclination is to give up my OSH Grand Champion ambitions and drill and >dimple the holes for a 1/8" flush rivet. Are there any implications >regarding stiffness, oilcanning, etc with either of these fixes? > >Q2: How did everyone else dimple those difficult holes near the TE? > >The initial problem was that when I bent the top skin back enough to get the >Avery C-tool and hammer in, the bottom skin flexed back, especially when I >was dimpling the hole nearest the TE. This caused the edge of the dimple die >to be outlined in the skin, as I found out on my rudder :-(. (On the plus >side, I found I could easily press these marks out with finger pressure). On >the other side of the rudder, and on the right elevator, I used foam rubber >squabs provide more support to the skin from underneath, and to press down >on it from above, thus holding it flat. That worked well on the rudder; I'm >not sure why things went wrong on the elevator. The problem (I think) was >that the squabs underneath partially lifted the skin off the male dimple >die, allowing it to move and elongate the holes. > >Frank. >-- >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass; >Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel >Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read". >PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!" >http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ | >-------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 1997
From: barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart)
Subject: Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics
You wrote: >Well, I had the local EAA multiple-RV-building guru inspect my wing >spars last night... First, I suggest that you and the guru jointly get on the phone with someone at Van's. If ther's a problem with your rivets, Van's will say so. If there is NO problem, let the guru hear it for himself. Second, I'm looking at my copy of "Standard Aircraft Handbook", and it clearly shows the 1.5D minimum diameter measurement for the shop head of the rivet being measured at the fattest part of the shop head. Third, you said: >he pulled out a magnifying glass and took a look at the >"grain" structure of the shop heads. He believes that hitting >a rivet with a hammer (I used a 3 lb hammer and the C-Frame tool >as shown in George's videos) causes the grains in the metal to >form improperly Suppose you had used a rivet gun? How many times does he think the rivet gun hits the rivet? Jeez. I think you should find a different guru. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 Fabricating canopy skirts ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 1997
From: barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart)
Subject: Re: Aluminum bonding agent
Bill: >we use pro-seal for everything, including bonding things to the >firewall. Of course, after you have used it you will know I refer to it as >"Black Death"! Can you give us any insight why "Fuel Tank Sealant" has replaced Pro-Seal in the Accessory Catalog? Best Regards, Dave Barnhart ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 1997
From: Ted French <french@mag-net.com>
Subject: Re: Wingtip lights
A suggestion ! When mounting the wingtip lights mount them in a location such that if you ever have to remove your aileron push pull tubes you can remove the wingtip lights and pull the tubes out the hole. Ted French rv-6A flying 60+ hours ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 1997
From: Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics
VNET.IBM.COM!sheinlein(at)matronics.com wrote: > > Well, I had the local EAA multiple-RV-building guru inspect my wing > spars last night and he scared the crap outta me on two points. > > 2. Next, he pulled out a magnifying glass and took a look at the > "grain" structure of the shop heads. He believes that hitting > a rivet with a hammer (I used a 3 lb hammer and the C-Frame tool > as shown in George's videos) causes the grains in the metal to > form improperly. sigh... Basically, he said I should have used > a pneumatic squeezer to form the shop head in one shot. Not in > 3 or 4 separate whacks. > > Q: Any comments on setting #6 rivets with a hammer and how it > might adversely affect the quality of the rivet? > My metallurgy background is limited to one undergrad course 13 years ago so I'm no expert, but the highest strength metal parts are achieved by forging - which can be either a hammering or a squeezing process. Cold forging is used to form the round or flush heads on rivets, and the heads on bolts, so I would think you could form a shop head the same way. I think the degree and rate of heating and cooling of the part is what determines the final grain size, whereas the grain shape is determined by the method used to form the metal, eg. forging, casting, machining. I don't think it matters much to grain shape whether the forging was by squeezing or striking. If the metal is soft enough to be formed at room temperature (cold forging), the heating & cooling rates and the altering of grain size are not a factor. If you want an expert's opinion you might check with the company(s) producing the rivets or with a materials engineering prof at your local university. Bob Reiff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 1997
From: Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Aluminum bonding agent
Finn Lassen wrote: > > Can anyone recommend an aluminum to aluminum bonding agent (adhesive, > glue...). It should be heat resistant up to maybe 200 F. I'm > manufacturing my rotary engine mounting plate, reinforced with T6 > angles along the sides. In addition to riveting/bolting, I'd like the > added strength of also bonding the angles to the plate. > > Finn > > finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com The Grumman Tiger, Cheetah, and Lynx used an aluminum bonded construction instead of rivets. You might check with a Grumman dealer or the American Yankee Association to find out what they used. Bob Reiff, RV4 in progress ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 1997
From: Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: 0-360's With No Fuel Priming Systems
> (If it's really cold, preheat it, your engine will thank you) > > Regards: > Rusty Gossard > N47RG RV-4 Flying 0-360 > Regards: > Rusty Gossard > N47RG RV-4 Flying I was waiting for someone to bring that up. The Cessna I'm forced to fly until my good plane is done has a primer but I never use it. I just pump the throttle a couple of times while cranking. In winter, preheat and you won't need to prime. Bob Reiff, RV4 in progress ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LesDrag(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 01, 1997
Subject: Re: Spring Loading of Throttle and Mixture
<< How real of a problem is this and how many of you have bothered to install such features? Thanks in advance. -Gary VanRemortel N1GV reserved, "heaven in '97" is my motto (figuratively speaking, of course!) vanremog(at)aol.com >> First, the LOM engine in my RV-3 is NOT certified by the FAA. BTW, Happy New Year everyone. The LOM engine has a built-in spring on the throttle towards full throttle. There are discrete detents for the mixture control, which hold the existing position. (This lever is used to richen the mixture with altitude, but I think of it as a manual over-ride for the automatic mixture system.) No provisions have been provided for alternate air or heat. (Maybe they think the slice and dice feature of the supercharger is enough??) The exhaust pipes normally stick straight out the side of the cowl. This is on the same side as the engine cylinder airbox. There may be a 3" long piece of exhaust pipe inside the cowl, between the airbox and cowl exit hole. (I picked up 10 mph by putting a 65 degree bend in the exhaust pipe as it exited the cowl. I also get a very dirty left gear leg fairing. Yuk) Jim Ayers LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder LesDrag(at)aol.com Thousand Oaks, CA. USA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LesDrag(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 01, 1997
Subject: Re: Long range fuel tanks
<< Another option: I believe Jon Johansen used the wingtips to hold fuel. >> Jon Johansen does have wingtip tanks and a back seat full of tank also. >> I heard that Jon Johansen may also have had a forward fuselage tank between the instrument panel and firewall. Jim Ayers LesDrag(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mikel(at)dimensional.com
Date: Jan 01, 1997
Subject: Re: Long range fuel tanks
>>> The tank/hard point under the fuse would subject the tank to a bunch of >>> heat, oil mist, and exhaust gas deposits. Bleah. And, consider the drag. IMHO, an external hardpoint under fuselage/under wing FUEL tank is a mucho bad idea. Yes, military hardware have them and they work well, but these are DROP TANKS which can be jettisoned when not needed or if the thunder stops. And, if you can't dump them fast enough, say a flameout during takeoff, you punch out. Are you also putting in ejection seats so you don't have to land on top of 5 gallons of avgas if something happens?? Yikes!! Tony Bengalas wrote about this several months ago in Sport Aviation. Just a thought......... Michael RV-4 232SQ mikel(at)dimensional.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WCannon313(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 01, 1997
Subject: Pro-seal / Fuel Tank Sealant ? Black Death
Since their has been a bit of discussion on that sticky black stuff recently, I thought I would include the following info from a article I wrote for the local RV builders newsletter recently. It will point you in the right direction if you wish to find more info. First, is a basic understanding of that black sticky stuff that Vans sends us. It is the product of a variety of companies that meets the MIL-S-8802E specification (sealing compound, temperature resistant, integral fuel tanks and fuel cell cavities, high adhesion). It is commonly known as Pro-Seal, the identical product is produced by both Chemseal and Courtalds (which is right here in the Puget Sound area). What we actually get from Vans is MIL-S-8802E, TYPE II, CLASS B-2 which can be deciphered with the following information: TYPE I Chromate catalyst and is brown TYPE II Manganese catalyst and is black, actually dark gray CLASS A Low viscosity for applying with a brush CLASS B Heavy low slump material for fay sealing between parts or creating fillets -1/2 Fast cure rate - one half hour work life at standard conditions -2 Slower cure rate - 2 hours work life at standard conditions Hope this helps some people. E-mail me directly if you want more info. Walt Cannon wcannon313(at)aol.com RV6 N36WC 50 Hours and prepping for paint ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DkSJC(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 01, 1997
Subject: oil cooler mounting
Vans recommends mounting oil cooler on firewall but gives no guidance in such mounting. Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. Application RV-4, O-320 C/S, Rocky Mtn. 4-pipe exhaust Cooler: Harrison sold by Vans Reply to DkSJC(at)aol.com thanks. Dan Helm, MT View, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 1997
From: "Timothy W. Whitman" <71610.2013(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: air box
After getting the cowling and gear on my -6A, I found that I couldn't remove the air filter without removing the nose gear leg. I had interference of the air box with the leg and the little carved foam piece on the leg and there wasn't enough room in the stackup to do anything else. The carved foam piece is per plans to allow the lower cowl to drop some before moving forward past the spinner. I called Van's and they said typically "make it fit". After staring at it and measuring the amount the box must drop to clear the filter, and realizing there is no way I could even sculpt the box to clear, my dear wife suggested that I cut the air box in two. After laughing a while I realized that seems to be my best option. Actually, I plan to just cut a removable quadrant to clear the foam piece and attach it with some screws. I can't see how this doesn't happen with all 6A's with O-320s. Anyone else seen it? Tim Whitman sanding and filling fiberglass ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Yawgrw(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 01, 1997
Subject: Re: ElectroAir Electronic Ignition
Jim, Thanks for the input. I'll call Klaus tomorrow. Best Regards, Wrgway "Valerie's Nightmare" RV-4 818WW ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N595CM(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 01, 1997
Subject: Re: Kamikaze pilot's flight gear
Why does a kamikaze pilot wear a helmet! N595CM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SteveRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 02, 1997
Subject: Re: Kamikaze pilot's flight gear
So he can hear the radio, then transmit "tora, tora, tora" ;) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 1997
From: finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen)
Subject: Welding 6061-T6
Has anybody on the list had success with welding 6061-T6 using the Henrob 2000 (or any oxy-acetylen torch)? I'm trying to weld a short length of 1/8" thick tubing to 1/8" thick angle. The material seems to go soft and deform before the rod will bond with the material. What's the secret? Finn finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 1997
From: Bud Newhall <bud(at)softcom.net>
Subject: Re: Welding 6061-T6
Finn Lassen wrote: > > Has anybody on the list had success with welding 6061-T6 using the > Henrob 2000 (or any oxy-acetylen torch)? The secret is to use a MIG or a TIG welder. Welding 6061 with a MIG is quite easy. But be aware, the area heated by the welding will be quite soft. Bud ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 02, 1997
Subject: Re: oil cooler mounting
<< Vans recommends mounting oil cooler on firewall but gives no guidance in such mounting. Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. >> Van's now has a mounting kit. Call them. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 1997
From: Stephen Jackson Soule <ssoule(at)vbimail.champlain.edu>
Subject: Re: Flap Hinge Pin
Hello listers, What is the accumulated wisdom about how best to insert the hinge pin into the flap hinge? I am about ready to rivet the hinge to the skin/flap brace. When I have it all clecoed up, I am at a loss to see how I am going to get the hinge pin in and out after riveting. F. Justice says that you cut out two eyes from the hinge in the middle and insert and withdraw the hinge pins from the middle. Does this work? How easy is it to live with this over the hours after the airplane is flying? If you had it to do over again, how would you do it? Steve, Huntington, Vermont 14 below yesterday, 75 in the shop ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 1997
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com>
Subject: Re: air box
>After getting the cowling and gear on my -6A, I found that I couldn't remove the >air filter without removing the nose gear leg. I had interference of the air box >with the leg and the little carved foam piece on the leg and there wasn't enough >room in the stackup to do anything else. The carved foam piece is per plans to >allow the lower cowl to drop some before moving forward past the spinner. > >I called Van's and they said typically "make it fit". After staring at it and >measuring the amount the box must drop to clear the filter, and realizing there >is no way I could even sculpt the box to clear, my dear wife suggested that I >cut the air box in two. After laughing a while I realized that seems to be my >best option. Actually, I plan to just cut a removable quadrant to clear the >foam piece and attach it with some screws. > >I can't see how this doesn't happen with all 6A's with O-320s. Anyone else seen >it? > >Tim Whitman > >sanding and filling fiberglass > > > Tim, I'm planning on removing the nose gear every tine the air box comes off. The fuse has to be propped up and one bolt removed from the nose gear. -Scott Gesele N506RV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 1997
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Flap Hinge Pin
Steve; >Justice says that you cut out two eyes from the hinge in the middle and >insert and withdraw the hinge pins from the middle. The RVator suggest the same. >Does this work? Yep >How easy is it to live with this over the hours after the airplane is >flying? Must be easy, I haven't thought of it in 4 years 'til you asked. >If you had it to do over again, how would you do it? Same way unless something easier is found. >14 below yesterday, 75 in the shop Glad your wife didn't lock you out? John Darby RV6 N61764 flying Stephenville TX johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OrndorffG(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 02, 1997
Subject: Re: Flap Hinge Pin
Steve, Another way is to drill a small hole in the in board aleron mount just a little off center of the hinge. That way once the pin is in it will settle off the hole and will not come out unless you redirect it to the hole. These pins are tight and some times you need to hook them to a drill to turn them in , this is not uncommon....keep up the good work....George Orndorff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough)
Date: Jan 02, 1997
Subject: Re: Flap Hinge Pin
What is the accumulated wisdom about how best to insert the hinge pin into the flap hinge? I am about ready to rivet the hinge to the I used the split method. On one wing it was a piece of cake but the other was very difficult, due to the not perfectly straight hinge line. They should also be secured at the centre so they don't slide out. I found this almost impossible so I made the pins just a little bit longer than the hinges. I can now see the end of the pins (outboard ends of flaps) during my preflight...none of the four have budged in 50 hours. Another method is to drill a hole in the aileron bracket and insert the whole pin from the aileron side, I've seen people put the pin in a drill and work it in that way....a little oil and a nice taper would help. Ken RV6A Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough)
Date: Jan 02, 1997
Subject: Re: air box
The carved foam piece is per plans to allow the lower cowl to drop some before moving forward past the spinner. Isn't this piece purely for appearance? It may be just laziness but I haven't put one on mine. I do have a gap about 2 inches long forward of the leg on the lower cowl (in the slit for the leg). The only way you see this is from underneath. When the weather improves here I'll probably put a plate over it, soewhat like the one behind the leg. Admittedly the transition from gear leg to bottom cowl is not as smooth. Ken RV6A Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 1997
From: lsmith(at)coastalnet.com (Louis E. Smith Jr.)
Subject: Re: Flap Hinge Pin
Steve, On my RV-4, I drilled a small hole in the wing inboard aileron hinge. Just slide the pin through the aileron hinge and into the flap piano hinge. Works best with the aileron removed. >Hello listers, > >What is the accumulated wisdom about how best to insert the hinge pin >into the flap hinge? >Steve, Huntington, Vermont >14 below yesterday, 75 in the shop > > Regards, Louis Smith lsmith(at)coastalnet.com RV-8 #80126 wings RV-4 #2844 N102LS sold ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: air box
From: wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen)
Date: Jan 02, 1997
I didn't put the carved foam piece in for just this reason..... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen1(at)juno.com writes: >After getting the cowling and gear on my -6A, I found that I couldn't remove the >air filter without removing the nose gear leg. I had interference of the air box >with the leg and the little carved foam piece on the leg and there wasn't enough >room in the stackup to do anything else. The carved foam piece is per plans to >allow the lower cowl to drop some before moving forward past the spinner. > >I called Van's and they said typically "make it fit". After staring at it and >measuring the amount the box must drop to clear the filter, and realizing there >is no way I could even sculpt the box to clear, my dear wife suggested that I >cut the air box in two. After laughing a while I realized that seems to be my >best option. Actually, I plan to just cut a removable quadrant to clear the >foam piece and attach it with some screws. > >I can't see how this doesn't happen with all 6A's with O-320s. Anyone else seen >it? > >Tim Whitman > >sanding and filling fiberglass > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 1997
From: Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com>
Subject: Re: Spring Loading of Throttle and Mixture
Gary, I am going to spring load the throttle and mixture. I hadn't actually thought about the carb heat. I am putting an oversize washer, with a hole drilled in it, to attach the spring at each end. There was some discussion on this before, but no on else seemed to be enthused about it. I am surprised that "fail safe" springing is not built into the carburetter. John Cocker, also ready to fly in the Spring > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Sargent" <sargentc(at)emh1.pa.net>
Subject: Re: Welding 6061-T6
Date: Jan 02, 1997
Finn, About your question below- > Has anybody on the list had success with welding 6061-T6 using the > Henrob 2000 (or any oxy-acetylen torch)? > > I'm trying to weld a short length of 1/8" thick tubing to 1/8" > thick angle. The material seems to go soft and deform before the rod > will bond with the material. What's the secret? Try using this technique. As you sense the material is just about to go soft, bring in the rod and put 1/3 of the heat on the material and 2/3 of the heat on the rod. This requires a different motion with the torch than for other materials such as steel. If the material is still getting too soft too quickly, run the torch a little longer up the rod. At the end of the bond, aluminum requires more rod input to prevent the seam from melting further. Put more heat on the rod as you approach the end of the material and *push* more rod into the material as you bring the torch away. Hope this helps, Chris Sargent sargentc(at)emh1.pa.net, Rv-8 someday ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BestBillO(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 02, 1997
Subject: Re: air box
I made the carved piece removeable with two tabs, two screws attaching it to the gear. Makes removal of everything simple, and still looks good, filling the gap, as well. Only way I could figure out to accomplish all. Bill Orcutt RV-6A, 200+ hours ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kiwi(at)jetstream.net (Kiwi)
Subject: Not-so-basic riveting basics
Date: Jan 02, 1997
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBF88B.39422780 I used my 20 ton hydraulic jack in the jig (of which some of the users = received the plans) and squeezed them effortlessly. The shop heads were = exactly the same as compaered to my friends Phlogiston spar. Try not to = fart around hammering if you have devices, such as presses, available = that make life easier and provide the user with much greater control = over the forming of the shop head. ---------- From: = VNET.IBM.COM!sheinlein(at)matronics.com[SMTP:VNET.IBM.COM!sheinlein(at)matronic= s.com] Sent: December 30, 1996 7:47 AM Subject: RV-List: Not-so-basic riveting basics Well, I had the local EAA multiple-RV-building guru inspect my wing spars last night and he scared the crap outta me on two points. I'd like to hear from anyone out on RV-list-land to see what you think about this... especially from people who have built their own spars. 1. Looking at the shop head of a rivet, you'll notice that it is a perfect circle when you look at it straight-on. Now, look at it from the side. It is a barrel shape (right)? When I measured my shop heads, I did so with a gauge that has a slot cut in it. (That's what we all use, right?) This really measures the fattest part of the barrel. Well, the inspector used calipers and measured the width of the shop head right at the base. This measurement is really the narrowest part of the shop head (bottom of the barrel). As a result, about 30 of my #6 rivets had shop heads that were not fat enough! Q: What is the proper way to measure a shop head???!!! I really shouldn't be asking this question at this point :( 2. Next, he pulled out a magnifying glass and took a look at the "grain" structure of the shop heads. He believes that hitting a rivet with a hammer (I used a 3 lb hammer and the C-Frame tool as shown in George's videos) causes the grains in the metal to form improperly. sigh... Basically, he said I should have used a pneumatic squeezer to form the shop head in one shot. Not in 3 or 4 separate whacks. Q: Any comments on setting #6 rivets with a hammer and how it might adversely affect the quality of the rivet? I tried to save $900 by building my own spars, but now I can't help but wonder if I did the right thing... Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated! Thanks everyone! Stephen Heinlein sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBF88B.39422780 eJ8+IgwQAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ACQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAEkAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20AU01UUABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20A AAAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABYAAABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20A AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAYAAAAJ3J2LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbScAAgEL MAEAAAAbAAAAU01UUDpSVi1MSVNUQE1BVFJPTklDUy5DT00AAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYP AQAAAAQAAAAAAAADNDcBCIAHABgAAABJUE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90ZQAxCAEEgAEAKgAA AFJFOiBSVi1MaXN0OiBOb3Qtc28tYmFzaWMgcml2ZXRpbmcgYmFzaWNzAEgOAQWAAwAOAAAAzQcB AAIACAA6ABgABAA1AQEggAMADgAAAM0HAQACAAgANgAZAAQAMgEBCYABACEAAAAyQTMyQjdDRDc5 NjREMDExOEY1ODQ0NDU1MzU0MDAwMADVBgEDkAYA1AgAABIAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwAp AAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQDgqMcqzvi7AR4AcAABAAAAKgAAAFJFOiBSVi1MaXN0OiBOb3Qtc28t YmFzaWMgcml2ZXRpbmcgYmFzaWNzAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAbv4zirHzbcyK2R5EdCPWERFU1QA AAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABMAAABraXdpQGpldHN0cmVhbS5uZXQAAAMA BhD64MXKAwAHEDcHAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABJVVNFRE1ZMjBUT05IWURSQVVMSUNKQUNLSU5USEVK SUcoT0ZXSElDSFNPTUVPRlRIRVVTRVJTUkVDRUlWRURUSEVQTEFOUylBTkRTUVVFRVpFRFRIRU1F RkZPUlRMRVNTTFlUAAAAAAIBCRABAAAARwcAAEMHAADBDAAATFpGdX3IyKj/AAoBDwIVAqgF6wKD AFAC8gkCAGNoCsBzZXQyNwYABsMCgzIDxQIAcHJCcRHic3RlbQKDM3cC5AcTAoB9CoAIzwnZO/EW DzI1NQKACoENsQtg4G5nMTAzFFALChRRhQvyYwBAIEkgdRGwIGQgbXkgAdAgdAECICBoeWRyYXUg bGljIGoA0GsgEwuAG7BoZRyQaWcgQChvZiB3aBxwaPwgcwNwHUAdsR0iGxERoMIgFhBjZWl2GzEd IjMLUQCAKSAAcBtAc3HJClBleh/EbSANwRWxAmwHkHNseS4gVCEdMXNob3Ab8GVhmmQEIHcEkB1A ZXgA0KciEBtwHSJzYR5hYQQg3QWgbQqwI6Ef0W8bUgNQpwiQILAEIFBoFaBnBAAtG8JzCrEigXIb cG5v+wVAJcFmCsAFQArACGAgsX0RgG0HgAUQGRAc4B3AedcIYCkRH7AgDbB2HHAHkPosHjB1HhEk 8RNQIjEq0r8qQAtwC2ACYB1AHSBhBUDtAMBrHUAcYGYjwSTwCJF7IJMTUG8qoA2wHrcd0Gn/HSAb UCsiCcEs4C3xBaACML8DYAMgLoAt8R0iIeFtKYI7HpUi5y4KhQqLHGAxOIIwAtFpLTE0NA3w5wzQ NRMLWTE2CqADYBPQ+SQQIC03NwqHNesMMDa2OkYDYTo4Pja2DIIgVgBORVQuSUJNLrBDT00hIuAf kG4iIB0LgEAAwDDBAwBjcy6BJSFbU01UUDo7//s9DwNwXTffOO0GYAIwOh+dOytEH3EG0C3xMzAq 8AAxOTk2IDc6NJo3FLBNQO847VRvQy/xOytydi0cYBPAPVxGn3FB/nViajbxSL87K1JYVi1MJvFO UE4oAC15HkAtYi3BHIAFEB+wdJspglEzczM/NEMzNjW3wxpFNrZXZWxsKvAa8BcRgB/UFaBjB0Ag RUGaQS+xbFHQC1BlLVAx1GJ1AxBkKYJnCHAqEP8LgCdQNvIbYQPwGRAKhSdS3wQgC2ATwCfgHXBo KJEo8t8iwVagJYMdMQUAYSMQCGBdAkBhG1AecR0BdyXQcJpvC4B0PeAKhUknG0D/HGAtMSXBIzEF wANSIJEp8P5uHnFcsF0iUDFKwkqwIKL/JcERsB1AHeAs4SnxCoUdIH8LgBzQAaBgUmLxPeBj8CD/ IbBY4gcxJDFfk1jwIwAskb8d4F8hKkJX4mOSH5ByCoVcb3cnNF33CoUxIoBM+G9vaymCLOEyWx6C XOD3UZMq8CnxJ1WgJ+IqsSy0dy+AHOAEIGEKhW1hWPBy5y2ANwFkgHJjZYMJ8CnjfxWgaTBpgmyR E8AcMFriLfcCIGQRUMB3KvBvKG0IX5O3JGMuoWQRSWykUhFyFhBvAyAi4FxwHUAoBRBa8Sn6P2Qg V26iGvAHgCTwCHD/CYBtCBthIuhVwlggIMEl0Osvc1zgZxxAZyylEYBzgvsiUCgBY2BhHPEvgDMm bWH2KCKgLOAnI3Es0iOQIJDva6EbESrwdKM/IIAikWzB/zAhZLJ1pQQgMWMs4BPQE8D/bQkoch6V c8RkEVWEHSJYxf8FsRsTVqEFIB8iIKJ1rx0T/QPwZC+RMi581GmGUTFzAn99c4PFB4ACMG0IfZgd Im7fc9FnYH9BgAtqCCgG4AJA61+xgGspeqlBc4IroVcx3ywBY2NFkB6CG2EjRgBRk/8EIFYCIuks wyOTJ/FxqSzhtwnwCGBa8CFSjG1hUU5Qv3UhbGJ+pC5hbaEd0GEkQa8l0YPUeZIi9j+X8CGYID9t CG1iGvB9xSLhHFBkbr4nBUBFUCThaUNjsiAg8X0TwGkb0WmTbMFdo2QgOtooUowyIoAHwHhrMSAC nxxQIiBqgWBhXOFhZwMA/GZ5WDNagYNkG8BvQm8X2x0hbQgiCcALcSJvwisg3nSXAjIuPeBkIEhm IVWQ/wiQH7CRlR3wAkBZiG1hatXfeDYpJB2QGvVc4DMtUDvQ56flYVMdMUMtOdAksqCxvmymWQQg IuFncRzxR2VQ7nJ44HuhLpJvIHFWoBsR/36kooMEIBz1B4ABkAMgG8D/cakxsRzgJUCV8yJicsFa 8P1j80JRQmSinkMkoHfhGvCvmcQqJBsSplpwYCB1PWH/HHEg5TFBKEGwImnMHPFgEn8i4XqQcJJ6 Mm0IqPAFsTR/YbEKsTBBYfIcwGfulLVB/1/wJRKIkgQgJyIRwFHTkCi/p3xbM2dgcXt2g1rkZDEh +xGwJDFhDdA28h0iIPCDAe50G3AelVGTP1KMGvAwwOcIkGF0KkIkOTSwUhAbcP9X5xthZ2cq8Ffg WrG/URrw51agmiIdMGxwCoXHUl1wfyCwLfEpwXe0wuRa8mLyZ/9j8VKMvAxaAXjQeOCbgyNxu7Mz mmJwK5FkgRPQZJPNf3thYyAEIKVBJ8BgEZPNU30T0HBuoqTQP5RZtj93duNgIHqQaWJtS6lSj1Of F1SsCoUVMQDZAAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAQAAHMID9ZpzN+LsBQAAIMID9ZpzN+LsBHgA9AAEA AAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAACpDA== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBF88B.39422780-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Cafgef(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 02, 1997
Subject: Re: Welding 6061-T6
Finn You need an intense heat source to get a fast, concentrated heating at a very localized area, the bonding point. A flame justs heat up a large area and allows the whole area to slump. It has to do with the fact that aluminum conducts heat real well and the flame doesn't heat the weld zone fast enough. You need an arc. Take it to a welder that has a TIG welder and a lot of experience. Gene Francis trying to fit a can-of-peas ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 1997
From: John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com>
Subject: RST Products
If this gets posted twice my appologies. I have not seen it on the llist and I sent it 2 days ago >IMHO, losses from cross polarization are so slight as to be ignored >completely when you are >operating from thousands of feet AGL Besides who knows what polarization the antenna actually sees after the signal has been reflected offvariuos structures on the ground and the skin of the aircraftin addition to a spinning propellar. You can safely assume that it is random. End of thread. John Top Phone: (619) 549-3556 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 1997
From: John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com>
Subject: Aluminum Bonding
I aplologize once more if I am posting this twice. I have not seen it on the list > We finally discovered Hysol Ea9410, and have not had any problems in the >ensuing thirteen years... I have about a thousand flying hours on a >prototype HP-18, which has bonded wings and tail surfaces. All control >surfaces are bonded with no rivets in ribs or trailing edges. Back a few years ago when I was trying to understand composites with the idea of building a pressurized "tupperware" 4 place, I attended a couple of courses at Abaris Training one of which was on composite bonding. Great course. We spent a week building and bonding samples of various materials including a lot of aluminum bonds to aluminum, steel, graphite, kevlar etc. etc. We built em using several different adhesives and prep methods and them broke em - testing them in both shear and peel strength. The Hysol products were clear winners. A lot of them are available in small already measured plastic packages like the ketchup you get with your fries. All you have to do is break the barrier between the two components knead the package for a minute to thoroughly mix it and cut the corner off and use it. No messy mixing and clean-up. My notes are buried somewhere in the garage but, if you would give Mike Hoke a call @ (800) 638-8441 he can probably put you on the right stuff.. By now, he should be the worlds foremost authority. I took his class a few years ago and he has been running at least two a year since. He should have tons of test data. BTW: The best prep was to clean with a good solvent (MEK or Acetone) wipe clean and then sand. No cleaning step after sanding - just wipe the dust with a clean cloth. That is contrary to what most procedures tell you. They usually want to use a solvent after sanding. It is also very important to wipe the surface dry with a clean rag after using the solvent. If you don't all of the contaminates that were dissolved by the solvent are redeposited when the solvent evaporates. The key to a good bond is cleanliness. You even have to be careful of airborne particles. The slightest bit of residue from using a silicone spray or other aerosol can ruin a bond. How about a totally bonded wing on your next RV. John Top Phone: (619) 549-3556 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 1997
From: John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com>
Subject: Oops Rivets
If this gets posted twice my appologies. I have not seen it on the llist and I sent it 2 days ago. Is there a universal head equivalent to the NAS 1097AD-4 "Oops Rivet" If so where can one find them. And, while we are on the subject does anyone know of a source for Alcoa Crown flus rivets? BTW; Boeing/MacDac must call them Lockheed Martin rivets now, or more properly Lockheed Martin Loral (Lomoral) rivets John Top Phone: (619) 549-3556 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AveryTools(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 02, 1997
Subject: RV-6 tail & wing kit for sale
Anyone interested the following, please contact Bob or Judy Avery at (817) 439-8400: Have RV-6 tail kit -- sheet metal work complete / good workmanship -- includes plans and manual. $1,000. RV-6 wing kit -- out of box, but no work done on the kit. Has pre-drilled spar (May / 1992 kit). $3,000. --or-- $3,500 for both. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mikel(at)dimensional.com
Date: Jan 02, 1997
Subject: Re: Flap Hinge Pin
>Hello listers, > >What is the accumulated wisdom about how best to insert the hinge pin >into the flap hinge? Steve: I did the split pin, removing 2 hinge eyes from about the middle of the wing and the flap. Works well. I secured the ends of the pins on the wing brace and it is fairly easy to remove. If you leave the pin whole you have to remove the wing to get the pin out, I believe. Michael RV-4 232SQ mikel(at)dimensional.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 1997
From: Larry Hoatson <lhoatson(at)e2.empirenet.com>
Subject: Re: wire-feed welding
Consider adding argon / CO2 mixture gas and switching to core-less wire - Much nicer results Larry -- Larry D. Hoatson lhoatson(at)empirenet.com Yucaipa, CA (L12) Restoring 1950 Cessna 170A N9948A Looking forward to RV6Q ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 1997
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: wire-feed welding
> For what it's worth, I used a wire welder (that has flux in the wire) to > weld the wedges that Vans added to the brake pedals. [snip!] Uhhh... I do remember a while ago something about an RV-6 driver who had a weld break on his rudder pedal. But I might've missed a subsequent change to the design. My rudder pedals don't have any gussets. Is Vans recommending adding them? I just finished painting mine (sigh). Randall Henderson, RV-6 randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BestBillO(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 02, 1997
Subject: Re: -6/6A Sliding Canopy air leaks
Listers, Any of you 6 or 6A owners of sliding canopies had any good results sealing air leaks in the area where the slider mates up to the wind screen, especially near the top around the latch area? Thanks in advance. Bill Orcutt, RV-6A, N911RV, 200 hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 02, 1997
Subject: Re: Flap Hinge Pin
Stephan, there are two ways . One is the way you described and the other is to drill a small hole through your aileron hinge so you can pull the pin from the outboard end. I did it the second way, I would recomend you do It the way you described because you dont need to remove the aileron to remove the flap. Ryan Bendure RV4131RB ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 1997
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Averys: RV-6 tail & wing kit for sale
>Anyone interested the following, please contact Bob or Judy Avery at (817) >439-8400: Hey guys! Look... Avery's are on the Net. Yay!!!! Bob, Judy: Can we place orders by email? Frank. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass; Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read". PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!" http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ | -------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 1997
From: Mark LaBoyteaux <lbyteaux(at)tulsa.oklahoma.net>
Subject: sliding canopy questions
I'm working on my sliding canopy, and I have a couple of quick questions. On the forward wind screen, at the bottom aft section, the plans show making a cutout in the skin in order to overlap the canopy. I was wondering if anyone had left this out. If I have to make a fiberglass layup along the front edge, why couldn't I just bring it on around all the way aft and fair that bottom aft edge smooth instead of doing the split skin method? Now, my next question. I have the left side skirt clecoed in place. When I slide the canopy aft, the fuselage widens, and spreads the skirt out. When the canopy is at its most aft position, the skirt is finally clear of the fuselage side. Is this normal? Since the fuselage widens in this area, I can't see any other option. But it just doesn't look right. It really pushes the skirt outboard as the canopy is moved aft. Any comments? Mark LaBoyteaux RV-6a lbyteaux(at)tulsa.oklahoma.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EBundy2620(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 02, 1997
Subject: Seat Belts
Does anyone else have any concerns about the mounting of the lap belts in a 6? The distance between the attach brackets is narrower than the width of the seat which causes the belts to ride on the edge of the corrugated seat back. I've smoothed this edge as much as possible, but it still seems that the belts' constant movement over this edge could cause a problem. Has anyone installed some type of buffer, or? Also, does anyone know how the new 3 year medical works? Specifically, are current 2 year meds extended for an extra year, or are they 3 yrs ONLY after being accomplished after the rule went into effect? Ed Bundy RV6A flying Eagle, ID ebundy2620(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AveryTools(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 02, 1997
Subject: Re: Averys: RV-6 tail & wing kit for sale
Frank: yes, we welcome orders by e-mail; but DON'T DO IT THROUGH THE RV-LIST!! -- send orders and info direct to us at averytools @ aol.com. Plus we should have a home page (www.averytools.com) out in the next couple of weeks. Bob Avery ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 1997
From: ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: SALE OF COMPLETE RV/6A KIT
I'm forwarding this to the list in case someone is interested in purchasing this kit. Barry lives about 10 miles west of Arlington, WA, the home of the Arlington Airfair. Feel free to email either Barry or myself for any details. I have not seen the kit (nor Barry (for about 2 years)). He's a good guy, though, and wouldn't cheat you. John Ammeter >Return-Path: >From: "PHILLIPS PERFORMANCE" <sixspeed(at)tgi.net> >To: >Subject: Re: SALE OF COMPLETE RV/6A KIT >Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 17:37:48 -0800 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-UIDL: b928f4267103ddda3d526adc12badb00 > > > >---------- >> From: PHILLIPS PERFORMANCE <sixspeed(at)tgi.net> >> To: ammeterj(at)seanet.com >> Subject: SALE OF COMPLETE RV/6A KIT >> Date: Tuesday, December 31, 1996 8:39 AM >> >> HI, JOHN, THIS IS BARRY PHILLIPS. I AM HOPING ALL IS WELL FOR YOU ? AM >IN >> THE PROCESS OF SELLING MY RV/6A KIT. IT HAS SLIDING CANOPY,ELECTRIC FLAPS >> AND TRIM ONE PIECE WING SKINS. IT HAS BEEN DEBURRED AND ANODIZED BY KEN >> ORFORD AT AI METAL FABRICATORS. ALSO WITH THE KIT WOULD GO A STEEL 2"X2" >> WING JIG. THE TAIL FEATHERS ARE BUILT. I ALSO HAVE A COMPLETE SUBURU >POWER >> PLANT 170 H.P. WITH A CONSTANT SPEED PROP AND INSTRUMENTS. I WOULD TAKE >> $10,000 FOR THE PLANE KIT AND JIG. I AM HOPING YOU WOULD ASSIST ME IN THE >> SELLING OF THIS KIT. HOPE ALL IS WELL WITH YOU AND YOURS. J.B.(BARRY) >> PHILLIPS. 6733-230TH PL. N.W., STANWOOD,WA.98292. PHONE FAX >> (360)-652-3595 E-MAIL sixspeed(at)tgi.net. HAVE A GREAT NEW YEAR, BARRY. >> > > John Ammeter ammeterj(at)seanet.com 3233 NE 95th St Seattle WA, 98115 USA RV-6 N16JA First flight August 1990 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RICKRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 02, 1997
Subject: Build Times II
boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.593.emout07.mail.aol.com.852254152" --PART.BOUNDARY.0.593.emout07.mail.aol.com.852254152 Sorry my first e-mail didn't take the attachment. Attached, as promised, are the build times for my RV6. The attachment is a Word document. A couple of comments. First, this is an early RV6, sn 20404, and therefore doesn't represent near the level of fabrication today's kits do. These times were for productive work only. I didn't track studying the plans or chasing down parts. I had to combine some tasks together so it would make sense. For example, tail fiberglass appears to have taken a lot of time. It did take a lot of time because I included the infamous empennage fairing in the total. That was a piece of junk and took that long to reconstruct it. Plumbing is deceptively low because I only included the work inside the fuselage. The rest of the plumbing is included in the engine hookup. I rebuilt quite a few things and those times are represented. I don't consider myself either a fast or slow builder. I do believe, however, that I paid a fair amount of attention to detail. Therefore my times may be a bit on the high side. I'm now building an RV8 and have included some of the tail hours for comparison. The new kits are considerably faster. Rick McBride RICKRV6(at)aol.com RV6 N523JC RV8 80027 --PART.BOUNDARY.0.593.emout07.mail.aol.com.852254152 name="RV6BLDTM.DOC" 0M8R4KGxGuEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPgADAP7/CQAGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAADwAAAAAA AAAAEAAAEQAAAAEAAAD+////AAAAABAAAAD///////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ///////////////////////////////////cpWgAV+AJBAAAAABlAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwAA qhMAAOwdAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAqhAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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Date: Jan 02, 1997
From: Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us>
Subject: RST products
Thanks to all for the input regarding RST products. I have ordered the new audio panel kit (RST-564). As I understand you do not have to have this kit certified but there is some confusion as to having a mechanic or the like sign off on it for the FAA. Can anyone clear up the procedure for getting the finished kit from my hands to the airplane and keeping everyone happy???? Thanks Rick Osgood Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 1997
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: Aluminum bonding agent
>Bill: > >>we use pro-seal for everything, including bonding things to the >>firewall. Of course, after you have used it you will know I refer to it as >>"Black Death"! > >Can you give us any insight why "Fuel Tank Sealant" has replaced Pro-Seal >in the Accessory Catalog? > >Best Regards, >Dave Barnhart Dave, I don't remember all the details, but I think the patent ran out on the "pro seal", so now we buy directly from one of the companies that has been making the product all these years, instead of the person owning the patent rights. "Fuel Tank Sealant" just answers one of the many questions we get about ?what is pro-seal?! Same stuff - different name. Bill Bill RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV flying hours. These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 1997
From: Mark LaBoyteaux <lbyteaux(at)tulsa.oklahoma.net>
Subject: Re: sliding canopy questions
I found the answers to my questions. I can't believe how many times I'll look at the prints, and overlook what I'm looking for. I called Van's, and they filled me in on how the side skirts are supposed to be flush with the main longeron, just like it shows on SC-2! I've also decided that I need to make the notch in forward skin to overlap the windshield in order for a smooth transition. I'm going to have someone weld some tabs onto the bottom of my sliding frame in order for the side skirts to fit perfect. Mark LaBoyteaux RV-6a lbyteaux(at)tulsa.oklahoma.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 03, 1997
Subject: Re: Flap Hinge Pin
I cut out the two center hinges on each of my flaps. I insert the hinge from the top side of the wing so the ends are not protruding into the slip-stream. I safety wirre the the two halves together so they can't move out. Wouldn't do it any other way. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC, NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 1997
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: wire-feed welding
Ok sorry for the confusion about the rudder pedals everyone. It was of course just the floor mounted pedals that had the gussets added, as I have now been reminded. End of thread. Randall ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 1997
From: Larry Hoatson <lhoatson(at)e2.empirenet.com>
Subject: Re: RST products
RST will include paperwork describing the process with your kit. My mechanic was initially skeptical, but when he saw the completed kit, and the alignment results from RST (I sent mine back to have it checked and aligned) he sounds more positive about the installation. Just wish we were ready to install the radios and GO FLYING! Larry -- Larry D. Hoatson lhoatson(at)empirenet.com Yucaipa, CA (L12) KC6WYF Packet: KC6WYF(at)W6JBT.SOCAL.CA.USA.NA Restoring 1950 Cessna 170A N9948A Looking forward to RV6AQ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 03, 1997
Subject: Re: RST products
<< I have ordered the new audio panel kit (RST-564). As I understand you do not have to have this kit certified but there is some confusion as to having a mechanic or the like sign off on it for the FAA. Can anyone clear up the procedure >> The signoff is detailed in the builder's manual for the audio panel, but is not required unless the unit is going into factory iron. In a homebuilt, the FAA man or the DAR signs off the whole shebang at once, just before you fly. At least that's the way I believe it works. Bill Boyd SportAV8R(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 03, 1997
Subject: engine mounts
Has anyone had experience with the non-certified engine mounts that Aircraft Spruce sells? The Vans-recommended part is Barry # 94011-20 for nonaerobatic use. This crosses to a Lord mount the type # of which I don't have in front of me. The ACSS generic part is a clone of the Lord J-7402-5 which is used on the Piper PA-28-180, among others. This is not the same Lord part no. that the Barry from Vans crosses to. John at Vans wasn't familiar with the ACSS offering, but was interested when I told him the (1995) price was $154 for the set of four mounts (8 pucks plus spacers). He said no one at the factory as far as he knew had used substitute mounts but "if they work for a 180 Lycoming, why not?" My concern, of course, is stiffness and vibrational characteristics, as well as service life. So, is it worth it to save a hundred bucks? These things are outrageously high. Bill Boyd SportAV8R(at)aol.com RV-6A in western VA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 1997
From: John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com>
Subject: Re: RST products
As I understand you do not have to have >this kit certified but there is some confusion as to having a mechanic >or the like sign off on it for the FAA. HUH? Certified for what? Where does it say that you need a have a panel mounted audio to go fly? Or even a panel mounted radio. What is this sign off stuff. John Top Phone: (619) 549-3556 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 1997
From: John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com>
Subject: e-mail/Web Site Tail feather sale.
Bob: Good news on the Web Site. I'm sure that the kit for sale is not your own RV. We are all looking forward to seeing you finish it so you can show Buzz Lauritsen what a real RV looks like ;-} JIC there are some on the list that don't know Buzz (Cleaveland Tool) built an Oshkosh Grand Champion -4 Happy New Year. John Top Phone: (619) 549-3556 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNES_ERIC(at)Tandem.COM
Date: - - - , 20-
Subject: Seat Belts)
I believe I read in AOPA that there is NO EXTENSION, but I don't remember if this was the final rule. I'd definitely make sure before I went past the 2 year! EB barnes_eric(at)tandem.com ------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT -------- SENT 01-02-97 FROM SMTPGATE (EBundy2620(at)aol.com) Does anyone else have any concerns about the mounting of the lap belts in a 6? The distance between the attach brackets is narrower than the width of the seat which causes the belts to ride on the edge of the corrugated seat back. I've smoothed this edge as much as possible, but it still seems that the belts' constant movement over this edge could cause a problem. Has anyone installed some type of buffer, or? Also, does anyone know how the new 3 year medical works? Specifically, are current 2 year meds extended for an extra year, or are they 3 yrs ONLY after being accomplished after the rule went into effect? Ed Bundy RV6A flying Eagle, ID ebundy2620(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 1997
From: ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter)
Subject: Re: Seat Belts
>Does anyone else have any concerns about the mounting of the lap belts in a >6? The distance between the attach brackets is narrower than the width of >the seat which causes the belts to ride on the edge of the corrugated seat >back. I've smoothed this edge as much as possible, but it still seems that >the belts' constant movement over this edge could cause a problem. > >Has anyone installed some type of buffer, or? > >Ed Bundy RV6A flying >Eagle, ID >ebundy2620(at)aol.com > > I was concerned, also, that the belt would rub/chafe on the edge of the seat back so I constructed a metal 'tang' that bolted into the bracket and had a slot for the belt. This tank was made from 0.10" 7075 T6 and approximately three inches long. I bent it about 20 degrees one inch from the bolt hole. This 20 degree 'kick' moved the belt far enough to the side that it no longer chafed on the seat back. BTW, to bend the 7075 I used a block of oak with a 90 degree notch and a long 3/4" socket. Use a vise and squeeze the socket into the notch (with the 7075 in between). John Ammeter ammeterj(at)seanet.com 3233 NE 95th St Seattle WA, 98115 USA RV-6 N16JA First flight August 1990 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 1997
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: To Oil Cooler line on 0-360 A1A
>Was just getting ready to hang the motor for the final time, (at least for >2,000 + hrs, I hope). Was fitting all the stuff to the back of the motor >while it was handy. Last was the line that is shown on the Lycoming manual >figure 7.4 as "Oil to Cooler" located at about 4:00 on the oil filter >looking from the rear. > >Well, if you use that one with a straight fitting, the hose will interfer >with the oil filter. > >I assume people use the "optional" location shown in Figure 7.3 at about >11:00, right next to the "Oil from cooler connection. If I am right, what >is the source for the "Banjo" fitting?...... I haven't seen it in the ACS >catalog. > >Bruce Patton >Wishing I could go soaring Bruce, The correct ports are the one in the center of the engine below the oil cooler between the mags and the one just above the left mag pointing straight aft. I think you can use a straight fitting or a 45 and they will clear the oil filter. The other port at the top was used prior to the days of oil filters according to one of the Lyc guys out checking our stock for bad wrist pins. He strongly recommended against using the upper port. I have also heard that there can be a 10 to 20 degree oil temp change depending on which port you use, although oil temp is not a problem in RV's. Bill Bill RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV flying hours. These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: engine mounts
Date: Jan 03, 1997
I don't know about the ACS mounts. Someone could surly make a set of non-certified (non-PMA) mounts for homebuilders for lower cost so that is probably what they have. I can say that the Barry mounts are good mounts. A number of companies like Chief and Superior sell the Barry mounts as does Van's. The old 'Lord' brand mounts use to have a 'gell' sack inside of them and these things would get old and brake and leak out silicone gell all over. The Barry mounts do not have this gell sack. I called them several yrs ago about this and they said that they use a new compound of rubber and it does not need the gell sack to meet the requirements. Maybe Lord has done away with the gell sacks now also, I don't know. I think the Barry mounts are a little 'soft' if you plan any aerobatics. On my RV-4, I have a smilie hole where the alternator pully wore through the cowl. I have the 4inch pully (from Avery) so the clearance is minimal. When I pull about 4 to 5 G's, I can smell the pully rubbing on the cowl. I expect the acro mounts would not give as much (but they may also transmit more vibration in cruse). Herman dierks(at)austin.ibm.com > Has anyone had experience with the non-certified engine mounts that Aircraft > Spruce sells? The Vans-recommended part is Barry # 94011-20 for nonaerobatic > use. This crosses to a Lord mount the type # of which I don't have in front > of me. The ACSS generic part is a clone of the Lord J-7402-5 which is used > on the Piper PA-28-180, among others. This is not the same Lord part no. > that the Barry from Vans crosses to. > > John at Vans wasn't familiar with the ACSS offering, but was interested when > I told him the (1995) price was $154 for the set of four mounts (8 pucks plus > spacers). He said no one at the factory as far as he knew had used > substitute mounts but "if they work for a 180 Lycoming, why not?" My > concern, of course, is stiffness and vibrational characteristics, as well as > service life. So, is it worth it to save a hundred bucks? These things are > outrageously high. > > Bill Boyd > SportAV8R(at)aol.com > RV-6A in western VA > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 1997
From: "Paul Osterman III" <PineRanch(at)msn.com>
Subject: Pre-punched airleron skins/6A
Listers: Just a follow-up to my recently discovered problem of a mismatch between the pre-punched hole spacing on my 6A aileron skins and the stiffeners from the Barnard Aircraft fast build kit. I wasn't dreaming, there is a mismatch, and the problem occured when Vans changed the hole spacing from 1 1/4 to 1 5/16ths and didn't let Barnard Aircraft know . This info courtesy of Ron Caldwell who also had the same problem. Steve Barnard is replacing the stiffeners to me at no charge and has only requested that I send the unusable ones back to him. The response from Barnard was quick and without any hesitation. No hemming, no hawing (spell check please) , just send the old ones back and we'll replace them. Thanks to Ron Caldwell & Chris Brooks for thier reply. Paul Osterman RV6A Working on flaps, back to the ailerons soon Anderson, Ca PineRanch(at)msn.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 1997
From: finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen)
Subject: Re: engine mounts
You wrote: > >Has anyone had experience with the non-certified engine mounts that Aircraft >Spruce sells? The Vans-recommended part is Barry # 94011-20 for nonaerobatic >use. This crosses to a Lord mount the type # of which I don't have in front >of me. The ACSS generic part is a clone of the Lord J-7402-5 which is used >on the Piper PA-28-180, among others. This is not the same Lord part no. >that the Barry from Vans crosses to. > >John at Vans wasn't familiar with the ACSS offering, but was interested when >I told him the (1995) price was $154 for the set of four mounts (8 pucks plus >spacers). He said no one at the factory as far as he knew had used >substitute mounts but "if they work for a 180 Lycoming, why not?" My >concern, of course, is stiffness and vibrational characteristics, as well as >service life. So, is it worth it to save a hundred bucks? These things are >outrageously high. > >Bill Boyd >SportAV8R(at)aol.com >RV-6A in western VA > Have a look in the Wag Aero catalog. $25 for a set (8 cones). Finn ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CWhig49723(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 04, 1997
Subject: Re: Pre-punched airleron skins/6A
Can you tell me what Barnard fast build kit cost , how it has helped you and how I can contact him. I am building RV6A and just completed my horizontal stabilizer. If I don't build another piece , I sure am proud of what I done so far. I'm sorta learning as I go. Thanks for any help you can give me. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 04, 1997
Subject: Re: Engine Mounts
<< Has anyone had experience with the non-certified engine mounts that Aircraft Spruce sells? The Vans-recommended part is Barry # 94011-20 for nonaerobatic use. This crosses to a Lord mount the type # of which I don't have in front of me. The ACSS generic part is a clone of the Lord J-7402-5 which is used on the Piper PA-28-180, among others. This is not the same Lord part no. that the Barry from Vans crosses to. John at Vans wasn't familiar with the ACSS offering, but was interested when I told him the (1995) price was $154 for the set of four mounts (8 pucks plus spacers). He said no one at the factory as far as he knew had used substitute mounts but "if they work for a 180 Lycoming, why not?" My concern, of course, is stiffness and vibrational characteristics, as well as service life. So, is it worth it to save a hundred bucks? These things are outrageously high. >> Bill- I found out when I compared the isolation mounts Van's sells for the RV series with those that Neico sells for the Lancair 320/360, that they are different. Yes, I have been known to associate occasionally with compost aircraft builders, but I really really am a good person, honest ;^) The Van's recommended isolation mounts are the same as those used on Cessna 172, Piper Archer and Mooney M20J, and are large enough in diameter to fill the entire surface of the dynofocal cups. FYI, Barry P/N 94011-20 crosses to Lord P/N J-9613-40. The isolation mounts Lancair uses for the O-320 and O-360 are MUCH smaller in diameter but I don't know the P/N. I do believe that the Lord P/N 7402-XX series are all small diameter (at least it says so in the Chief Catalog) so maybe this is what Neico is pawning off on their builders. The -5 mount is not listed in the Chief Catalog so I don't think it has any common application in certified AC. One of the major criteria in isolation mounts is that they be FRESH. I know a guy that bought a used overhauled engine and got the isolation mounts with it. He thought the engine was going to shake his teeth out. He had the prop dynamically balanced and the engine completely checked out at great cost and it turned out that the mounts were OLD and dried out. Recommend change at major OH. The Barry literature I got with mine from Van's DOES NOT indicate that it is applicable to the O-320-D1A or the O-360-A1A that they OEM, but they fit great and look robust. The Lancair ones look puny by comparison. IMO, don't cheap out on this item. Regards, Gary VanRemortel (I build, therefore I am.) vanremog(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Martinph(at)cyberbury.net
Date: Jan 04, 1997
Subject: rv8
HI all im new to this web site and just wanted to say hello . my name is jeff martin and i am building an rv -8 . if any 8 builders are out there i would shure like to hear from you. at present i am working on the rudder and are almost done with it. thanks jeff rv8 martinph(at)cyberbury.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 04, 1997
Subject: Re: engine mounts
<< Have a look in the Wag Aero catalog. $25 for a set (8 cones). Finn >> Finn, my man. The discussion was about Dynafocal Mounts, not conicals. Conicals are much cheaper but you have to have an older conical mount engine. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 1997
From: "Paul Osterman III" <PineRanch(at)msn.com>
Subject: Pre-punched airleron skins/6A
The Barnard fast build kit is about $1500. They prepare, anodize and put together many of the small parts for the wing: rear spar doublers, airleron & flap hinges, aileron bellcranks & pushrods, stiffeners, fuel tank access plates, lightening holes cut in aileron & flap spars... They say it will save 300 hours of building time. I don't know how accurate that is. It does permit you to begin assembly of the wing in relatively short order however. I figured that if the 300 hour savings is reasonably accurate you're paying $5.00/ hour to have them do their work + getting the parts anodized! If I had it to do over again, I would go with the fast build kit again. Either Van's or B.A.C. can send you a flyer with the details. B.A.C.'s # is 916 631-3672, fax # 631-3673. Paul Osterman RV6A working on flaps Anderson, CA PineRanch(at)msn.com ---------- From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of aol.com!CWhig49723(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Pre-punched airleron skins/6A Can you tell me what Barnard fast build kit cost , how it has helped you and how I can contact him. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 1997
From: kevin lane <kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com>
Subject: 0-320 access case
I found an access case with the fuel pump option. The tach hole however has this steel collar, perhaps an oil splash guard, held on with two rivets. My original case has a brass(?) pressed on flange-type thing. The new case splash guard does not fit inside the tach gears by some 1/4" at least. Can these be swapped or should I just go have my case machined (for about the same price, $160) for a fuel pump? That way too, I wouldn't have to find a prop gov. cover since my engine is a solid crank. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robbdog(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 04, 1997
Subject: Justice Manual?
Hi, Just starting my -4 and wanted to know more information on the Frank Justice manuals. Thanks in advance Rob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Immelmann(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 04, 1997
Subject: Re: Pre-punched airleron skins/6A
>The Barnard fast build kit is about $1500. They prepare, anodize and put together many of the small parts for the wing: rear spar doublers, airleron & flap hinges, aileron bellcranks & pushrods, stiffeners, fuel tank access plates, lightening holes cut in aileron & flap spars... They say it will save 300 hours of building time. I don't know how accurate that is. It does permit you to begin assembly of the wing in relatively short order however. I figured that if the 300 hour savings is reasonably accurate you're paying $5.00/ hour to have them do their work + getting the parts anodized! If I had it to do over again, I would go with the fast build kit again.< I just got my emp kit and with it Van's included a flyer for the Barnard kits. Barnard also has a "deluxe assembly price" at $2195. The way I read it, this is in addition to the fast build kit price of $1495 and the Phlogiston spar, and is for doing sub-assemblies. In Van's construction manual is a section on "comercial assistance" and a copy of the FAA advisory circular AC No. 20-139. Both the basic kits and the quickbuild kits have been approved by the FAA as qualifying under the major portion or 51% rule, but what happens when you start buying this type of sub-assemblies? It could put you in the catagory described in article 7 of the AC, titled Comercial Assistance Requiring Re-evaluation of the Completed Aircraft. In which it says, in part, "This could put the ameteur-built status of the aircraft in jeopardy.". I guess the real issue is whether or not any of the work completed by the sub-contractor is on parts of the airplane that Van's listed on their original evaluation checklist as supposed to be accomplished by the ameteur builder. I don't know that this will be a problem, but if it was, it could be a big one. Even if the feds certify the airplane, they might not grant the builder a repairman's certificate. Anybody know more about this ? Just 'cos I'm paranoid, doesn't mean that they're not out to get me. Ed ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Barry & Valerie Wawrin <barval(at)digital.net>
Subject: Seat Belts)
Date: Jan 04, 1997
If your over 40 forget it. The new ruling , which takes effect in = September, 1997, applies to only those younger than 40. The rest of us = are still being discriminated against and must renew our class III every = two years.=20 ---------- From: = Tandem.COM!BARNES_ERIC(at)matronics.com[SMTP:Tandem.COM!BARNES_ERIC(at)matronic= s.com] Sent: Thursday, January 02, 1997 8:35 PM Subject: Medical (was RV-List: Seat Belts) I believe I read in AOPA that there is NO EXTENSION, but I don't remember if this was the final rule. I'd definitely make sure before I went past the 2 year! EB barnes_eric(at)tandem.com ------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT -------- SENT 01-02-97 FROM SMTPGATE (EBundy2620(at)aol.com) Does anyone else have any concerns about the mounting of the lap belts = in a 6? The distance between the attach brackets is narrower than the width = of the seat which causes the belts to ride on the edge of the corrugated = seat back. I've smoothed this edge as much as possible, but it still seems = that the belts' constant movement over this edge could cause a problem. Has anyone installed some type of buffer, or? Also, does anyone know how the new 3 year medical works? Specifically, = are current 2 year meds extended for an extra year, or are they 3 yrs ONLY = after being accomplished after the rule went into effect? Ed Bundy RV6A flying Eagle, ID ebundy2620(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N95MF(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 04, 1997
Subject: High Altitude performance
I would be very interested to hear from some of you flying RVers about how your planes do at 7500-8500 density altitude. I am referring to take off and landing capabilities and runway length requirements. I am building an RV-8, and will go with IO-360 and CS prop. I hope to visit a couple of places high up there and am sure some of you Colorado guys and others can tell me what you have experienced in your RVs. Thanks in advance, and please e-mail off-list to N95MF(at)aol.com. Mark Goldberg.(flat lander-Austin,TX) RV-8 tail pieces done-ailerons and flaps done-waiting for wing spars ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 1997
From: Bob Haan <bobh(at)cdac.com>
Subject: BAC Wing Kit by Steve Barnard
Another benefit of the BAC Kit is Steve Barnard has very accurately predrilled all the aileron mounting fittings so that during assembly the alignment of the ailerons is accurate and automatic including the positioning of the aileron stops. Also, the end fittings on the aileron control rods are welded not riveted. I used it and would certainly use it again. At 05:25 PM 1/4/97 UT, you wrote: >The Barnard fast build kit is about $1500. They prepare, anodize and put >together many of the small parts for the wing: rear spar doublers, airleron & >flap hinges, aileron bellcranks & pushrods, stiffeners, fuel tank access >plates, lightening holes cut in aileron & flap spars... >They say it will save 300 hours of building time. I don't know how accurate >that is. It does permit you to begin assembly of the wing in relatively short >order however. I figured that if the 300 hour savings is reasonably accurate >you're paying $5.00/ hour to have them do their work + getting the parts >anodized! If I had it to do over again, I would go with the fast build kit >again. > >Either Van's or B.A.C. can send you a flyer with the details. B.A.C.'s # is >916 631-3672, fax # 631-3673. > >Paul Osterman >RV6A working on flaps >Anderson, CA >PineRanch(at)msn.com >---------- >From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of >aol.com!CWhig49723(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Pre-punched airleron skins/6A > >Can you tell me what Barnard fast build kit cost , how it has helped you and >how I can contact him. > > > Bob Haan bobh(at)cdac.com Portland, OR 503-636-3550 RV6A working on the fuselage frame ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 04, 1997
Subject: Re: 0-320 access case
Kevin, that steel coller is part of your oil slinger assy. The other half of that assy is bolted to your camshaft gear. your problem may be as simple as getting the proper slinger assy and bolting it on to your cam gear. Some camshafts are 2 piece,( cam and gear are seperate assy) and some are 1 piece. I cant remember off hand if there are more than one type slinger assy on the cam side but im pretty sure their are. Check your parts manual !! This should be a fairly simple problem to resolve. Ryan Bendure RV4131RB ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 1997
From: Garth & Shelley Cruden <crudenit(at)iinet.net.au>
Subject: Ardem Nk XI Aero Engine
Hi everyone, I realise this isn't quite RV related, but does anyone know where we can get any information about the Ardem Mk XI Aero engine. It is an aircraft conversion of the Volkswagon engine, and is currently fitted in a Corby Starlet. Any information is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Garth & Shelley Cruden (crudenit(at)iinet.net.au) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 1997
From: cliffd(at)mailhost.accesscom.net (Cliff Dominey)
Subject: Re: rv8
>HI all >im new to this web site and just wanted to say hello . my name is jeff >martin and i am building an rv -8 . if any 8 builders are out there i >would shure like to hear from you. at present i am working on the rudder >and are almost done with it. thanks > jeff rv8 > >martinph(at)cyberbury.net Hi Jeff - Congratulations on taking the plunge. As soon as I can get some nagging problems behind me, I hope to be right behind you. Hope you don't mind a few messages from the wannabes on the list. There are quite a few of us. Do you mind a few questions? I would be interested to know if you have previous metal work experience (I have none) and how things are going so far if you are a real "newbie" to the riveting business. Using a pneumatic squeezer perhaps? or bucking everything? You must be getting close to finishing the empannage kit - how long did it take you? Some weeks ago one of the RV8 listers said that he called Vans and was told (don't you love all this second hand info?) that they are working on a nosegear option for the fuselage kit. Have you heard that? Thinking about going that way? Sounds good to me, even if I have to take some heat for not going the taildragger route. Welcome to the list. It is a great resource, as you no doubt have found searching the archives. Cliff Dominey New Orleans cliffd(at)mailhost.accesscom.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 1997
From: Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us>
Subject: Re: Ardem Nk XI Aero Engine
Garth & Shelley Cruden wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > I realise this isn't quite RV related, but does anyone know where we can > get any information about the Ardem Mk XI Aero engine. It is an > aircraft conversion of the Volkswagon engine, and is currently fitted in > a Corby Starlet. > > Any information is greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Garth & Shelley Cruden > (crudenit(at)iinet.net.au) Please don't say your thinking of that for your RV.... please -- Rick Osgood Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 04, 1997
Subject: Re: Engine Mounts
<< The Van's recommended isolation mounts are the same as those used on Cessna 172, Piper Archer and Mooney M20J, and are large enough in diameter to fill the entire surface of the dynofocal cups. FYI, Barry P/N 94011-20 crosses to Lord P/N J-9613-40. The isolation mounts Lancair uses for the O-320 and O-360 are MUCH smaller in diameter but I don't know the P/N. I do believe that the Lord P/N 7402-XX series are all small diameter (at least it says so in the Chief Catalog) so maybe this is what Neico is pawning off on their builders. The -5 mount is not listed in the Chief Catalog so I don't think it has any common application in certified AC. >> Thanks for the input, Gary. FWIW, I got the cross-ref #'s from the salesman at Air Connection, an outfit that gave me a GREAT deal on reusable silicone rocker cover gaskets, but this time quoted a hair-raising price on the mounts. Perhaps he looked it up wrong. Sorry if this causes any confusion. I am not contemplating used mounts for the reason you cited (freshness); just wondered if ACSS could save me a C-note with noncertified parts. Someone suggested mounts from WAG aero... perhaps Bill Benedict will weigh in with an unofficial factory pronouncement. Bill Boyd SportAV8R(at)aol.com I build, therefore I'm not logging any PIC time lately. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RFlunker(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 04, 1997
Subject: BAC Wing Kit by Steve Barnard
I used the kit as well, and am highly recommending it. I wish Steve would have offerred something like that for the fuselage - ie do a lot of the things that are slow one-time processes for most of us that he could probably punch out rather quickly. While I enjoy assembly, I find the measuring, clamping, drilling process boring. Dick Flunker, RV-6A Skinning the fuse --------------------- From: cdac.com!bobh(at)matronics.com (Bob Haan) Date: 97-01-04 20:11:47 EST Another benefit of the BAC Kit is Steve Barnard has very accurately predrilled all the aileron mounting fittings so that during assembly the alignment of the ailerons is accurate and automatic including the positioning of the aileron stops. Also, the end fittings on the aileron control rods are welded not riveted. I used it and would certainly use it again. At 05:25 PM 1/4/97 UT, you wrote: >The Barnard fast build kit is about $1500. They prepare, anodize and put >together many of the small parts for the wing: rear spar doublers, airleron & >flap hinges, aileron bellcranks & pushrods, stiffeners, fuel tank access >plates, lightening holes cut in aileron & flap spars... >They say it will save 300 hours of building time. I don't know how accurate >that is. It does permit you to begin assembly of the wing in relatively short >order however. I figured that if the 300 hour savings is reasonably accurate >you're paying $5.00/ hour to have them do their work + getting the parts >anodized! If I had it to do over again, I would go with the fast build kit >again. > >Either Van's or B.A.C. can send you a flyer with the details. B.A.C.'s # is >916 631-3672, fax # 631-3673. > >Paul Osterman >RV6A working on flaps >Anderson, CA >PineRanch(at)msn.com >---------- >From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of >aol.com!CWhig49723(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Pre-punched airleron skins/6A > >Can you tell me what Barnard fast build kit cost , how it has helped you and >how I can contact him. > > > Bob Haan bobh(at)cdac.com Portland, OR 503-636-3550 RV6A working on the fuselage frame ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 1997
From: Garth & Shelley Cruden <crudenit(at)iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: Ardem Nk XI Aero Engine
No - it might be a little small for an RV?!! Rick Osgood wrote: > > Garth & Shelley Cruden wrote: > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > I realise this isn't quite RV related, but does anyone know where we can > > get any information about the Ardem Mk XI Aero engine. It is an > > aircraft conversion of the Volkswagon engine, and is currently fitted in > > a Corby Starlet. > > > > Any information is greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Garth & Shelley Cruden > > (crudenit(at)iinet.net.au) > > Please don't say your thinking of that for your RV.... please > > -- > Rick Osgood > Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LesDrag(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 05, 1997
Subject: New Airworthiness Certificate (was RST products)
<< Certified for what? Where does it say that you need a have a panel mounted audio to go fly? Or even a panel mounted radio. What is this sign off stuff. John Top Phone: (619) 549-3556 >> Hi All, The key words are "Major Alteration". If an experimental aircraft has a major alteration, a new airworthiness certificate will need to be issued. If the electrical system modification to install the audio panel is considered by the FAA to be a major alteration to the electrical system, AFTER THE AIRCRAFT HAS ALREADY BEEN CERTIFIED, then a new airworthiness certificate (FAA/DAR visit) is required. My RV-3 is on its third airworthiness certicate. The first was for the Lycoming O-290-G fixed pitch prop configuration. The second was for the LOM M332A fixed pitch prop configuration. The third is for the LOM M332A flight adjustable, ground adjustable , or fixed pitch prop configuration. Jim Ayers LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder LesDrag(at)aol.com Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 1997
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: engine mounts
>You wrote: >> >>Has anyone had experience with the non-certified engine mounts that >Aircraft >>Spruce sells? The Vans-recommended part is Barry # 94011-20 for >nonaerobatic. The ACSS generic part is a clone of the Lord J-7402-5 which is >used on the Piper PA-28-180, among others. This is not the same Lord part >no. that the Barry from Vans crosses to. >>...the (1995) price was $154 for the set of four mounts (8 >pucks plus spacers). >> >>Bill Boyd >>SportAV8R(at)aol.com >>RV-6A in western VA >> >Have a look in the Wag Aero catalog. $25 for a set (8 cones). > >Finn Bill, I tried to cross for you but came up with nothing directly, except the data with the Barry controls states the 94011-20 is FAA-PMA approved for the PA-28-180, among others. If they work, let us know! As far as the Wag Aero, they may be just fine, but the price differential is too much and I would be concerned. Are these Wag Aero mounts for dyna focal mounts or are they conical mounts? I know that conical mounts are a lot less expensive. Maybe "you get what you pay for!" After you have hung an engine on a dynafocal mount and mounted the cowl to the position of the engine, you are not going to be too excited about going back and replacing the isolation pads if they don't hold up. Bill. Bill RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV flying hours. These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 1997
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: High Altitude performance
>I would be very interested to hear from some of you flying RVers about how >your planes do at 7500-8500 density altitude. I am referring to take off and >landing capabilities and runway length requirements. I am building an RV-8, >and will go with IO-360 and CS prop. I hope to visit a couple of places high >up there and am sure some of you Colorado guys and others can tell me what >you have experienced in your RVs. Thanks in advance, and please e-mail >off-list to N95MF(at)aol.com. Mark Goldberg.(flat lander-Austin,TX) RV-8 tail >pieces done-ailerons and flaps done-waiting for wing spars > Mark, I am replying back through the list so everyone can see this also. I've been through Leadville Co. (LXV) on numerous (well, maybe 4 is not numerous) times in a C-182, RV-4-150, RV-6A-160 and RV-6T-180. Each time there were two people and on cross countries, ie: lots of baggage. The 182 got off the ground because the runway ends in a ravine and you just float off into space. I was concerned but the plane did finally climb out of it. Had to circle to climb across the mountains to the west. Not quite as bad as I made it out to be, but not a comfortable feeling for a sea level pilot. The RV-4 did better. I learned with the 182 not to use flaps! So the -4 (F/P prop) got off and climbed slowly, but headed west across the mountains without circling. Not real lively though, but what can you expect at 10,000 ft. The RV-6A's with C/S props were off with about twice the ground roll that I am used to at sea level. Turned west and continue to the next fuel stop. Even Jon Johanson flew his RV-4 into Leadville. I don't think he had all 125 gallons on board. The RV's know they are not at sea level, but they work very well at these altitudes, even with those short stubby wings! Bill. Bill RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV flying hours. These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Marc.Degirolamo@140-15.mx1.fidonet.org (Marc Degirolamo)
Date: Jan 04, 1997
Subject: Re: Flap Hinge
r > Justice says that you cut out two eyes from the hinge in the middle r > and r > insert and withdraw the hinge pins from the middle. Does this work? Yes, I did this on my RV-4 and it seems to work. To secure the pins I bent them so there was an eylet for a 8-32 screw, and put two nutplates on the flap spar. Make sure to get the hinge line straight, this was not as easy as I thought, as the inboard flap brace has to be shortened and rebent after stepping it onto the sparplates. After many cardboard templates I cut the brace and positioned it. I can push the pin into the hinge fairly easily.(it WOULD come out if not secured). Marc.DeGirolamo@140-15.mx1.fidonet.org finishing wings ... OFFLINE 1.40 * Rv-ing for FUN -- |Fidonet: Marc Degirolamo 1:140/15 |Internet: Marc.Degirolamo@140-15.mx1.fidonet.org | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his/her own. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 1997
From: Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com>
Subject: Rvs ready to fly in 97
>From comments made on the list, and in the current RVator, there are many, maybe hundreds, of RVs ready to take to the skies this year. The people at Vans are hoping to see 250 at Oshkosh this year. If you would like to e-mail to me, your type of RV, registation #, estimated completion date, and if you intend to fly to Oshkosh, I will make up a list. John C-GDOC, ready by Spring. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 1997
From: finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen)
Subject: Re: engine mounts
>>Have a look in the Wag Aero catalog. $25 for a set (8 cones). >> >>Finn > >Bill, I tried to cross for you but came up with nothing directly, except >the data with the Barry controls states the 94011-20 is FAA-PMA approved for >the PA-28-180, among others. If they work, let us know! As far as the >Wag Aero, they may be just fine, but the price differential is too much and >I would be concerned. Are these Wag Aero mounts for dyna focal mounts or >are they conical mounts? Sorry, I didn't read the original posting correctly. The ones from Wag Aero are conical (certified). Finn ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BillAkin(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 05, 1997
Subject: Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics
Gee Whiz. I set most of the rivets in my airplane with mutiple whacks with a rivet gun. Guess I'll ground it after 600 hours because of poor rivet grain alignment. Sounds like your inspector works for the space program. Obviously, the rivets need to be set properly and if they measure in height correctly after set, they will provide the shear strength you need. Keep on keepin on. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: McManD(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 05, 1997
Subject: BAC kits and buildtimes (chatter)
I speak for two, first time, non experienced RV6 builders here within 10 miles of one another. We purchased (2) the complete fast build assemblies as we knew it @ 1.5 years ago, prior to Van's offering the complete factory fast build. We are 100% completely satisfied with Phlogistions spars (@$795), BAC quick build components (@$1500) and BAC deluxe assembly kits (@ $2200). The 3rd service is not all that well known? Purchasing all 3, your spar and complete wing kit goes directly from Van's AC to BAC Calif. There BAC completely transforms the wing kit into a total prepunched, pre fitted, dry fit assembly. Adding in these 3 options, you get delivered wing kits all prepunched, at 99% of the locations. All you do is jig it up and with in hours, you are ready to fit your pre-punched skins. Now you've got a tight fitting jig saw puzzle well marked, plus suplemental plan verbage and CAD drawings in tough to understand areas. Steve Barnard will go out of his way to answer questions you may have and stands by his products, as noted in other RVlist memos. True first time builders would have to fill in the true hours expended here but the addition of @ $4500 works out to @ $10 per hour. I calculated savings in hours at 50 hr for spars, 150 BAC quick build and 250 in wing kit? While I doubt I'll end up with a show plane, my wings, with great flap gaps, alieron fits, fuel tank fits, F604 to F605 gap right on B/P dim, back riveted skin surfaces, on and on, I couldn't be prouder of. They all came out great, with fewer asprin breaks compared to other sections I've built. Mind you my tail and fuselage have/are coming out pretty good too. If BAC were to offer a fuselage kit, I would have bought it too. I'm told from advanced RV fellow, flyer/builders we are fast builders (really???) but here would be my accounting for my build times so far. (Note I 100% prime a kit right out of the box, and touch up later as required). Empennage kit (old style, not prepunched) @ 284 hours 4/15/95 rec'd, 99% complete 10/3/95, 276 my hours, 7.5 assisted hours, 50 work sessions, avg 5.67 hrs/day. @165 days spent. (note I waited to long prior to ordering wings, I sat at the end of this section and puttered around a lot). Wings (Deluxe build kit prepped wings) @ 306 Hours (kit = @ 590 hr so far) 10/30/95 rec'd, Left wing, flap and aileron asm'y, 95% completed by 1/10/96, 159 my hours, 37.5 assisted hours, 33 work sessions, avg 5.95 hrs/day. @70 days spent. 1/13/96 started on Right wing, flap and aileron asm'y, 95% completed by 3/21/96, 90.5 my hours, 18.5 assisted hours, 33 work sessions, avg 5.95 hrs/day. @70 days spent. (note I rec'd and primed 85% fuselage kit in here and built a Fuselage jig in here also). Fuselage @ 90% comlete to date, @ 309 hours (kit = @ 856 hr so far) broken down as: 4/20/96 started, skeleton completed 6/16/96 at @ 120 hours. by 8/12/96, all skins fitted and back riveted on, at @ 85 hours later. 8/14/96, removed from jig, started top side work. @ 107 hours to date additional. Up to canopy frame fitting and dash board construction details now 1/5/96 David McManmon, RV6, 0320H2AD, Tip up, Cicero, NY E mail McManD(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BillAkin(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 05, 1997
Subject: Re: air box
Tim: Put #6 screws to hold the glass bowl on the alum plate in lieu of rivets or remould the bowl to let down enough to clear the gear fairing. I used the screws. Remoulding could effect performance. Also, we coud have built a 6. Good Luck. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: McManD(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 05, 1997
Subject: Leaf spring gear?
I believe I read some where, regarding the RV6A air beetle project getting alum leaf spring gear. It seems a natural upgrade to the current RV6 series to me. Couldn't a this open up a engine mount which holds a nose wheel, and the tail dragger mounts, at the same time, plus leaf mounts on the belly/spar offering owners the options to switch around? I for one desire (am building) an RV6 final flyer. But I'd love to train/start the RV experience in an RV6A. Care to discuss? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PFPA(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 05, 1997
Subject: Van's Isspro instruments of reasonable quality?
Are the Isspro instruments offered in Van's accessories catalog of reasonable quality? Does anybody have experience with them? Good or Bad? If you don't like these, which brand do you prefer? The prices advertised on these guages seem almost too good to be true. I like to believe that anything advertised in Van's catalog is of excellent quality and bears Van's endorsement, however I recently called to order something else from their catalog but Bill Benedict said that the item in question was no good and he suggested I ordered an alternate brand which was not in their catalog. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 1997
From: Tom Goeddel <tgoeddel(at)monmouth.com>
Subject: Questions about top of F-606
Hi all, I'm trying to get my F-606 bulkhead for my RV-6a put together and I can't quite decide what is supposed to happen at the top with the sliding canopy (I'm trying to figure out where to put the rivet holes in the top so they won't interfere with anything later). 1. Sheet 32 shows a gusset (F-688) on top of the F-606 bulkhead and the F-687 rib that runs back to the F-607 bulkhead. Sheet SC-1 for the slider doesn't seem to show the F-688 gusset, just the C-662/663 rear canopy slide parts although it's not very clear. The F-688 has been included in the kit (other parts not used in the slider are not included...). Is the F-688 gusset used with the slider? 2. If F-688 is used, it would seem to cause a step under the top skin as the F-688 is on top of the F-606 and F-687. Is this a problem? (This would seem to be relevant to the tip-up as well...) 3. There is no dimension shown on SC-1 for where the C-664 threaded rod used to adjust the front part of the C-662/663 track goes through the F-606 bulkhead. If the plans are to scale, it looks like this hole will end up near the bottom of the F-687 rib flange. Is that correct? Is that the one place I need to avoid putting a rivet in the top F-606 joint? 4. There is a joggle in the flange of the F-606 pieces, a little over an inch wide (half in each half of the F-606 bulkhead), located at the top center of the bulkhead. I can't seem to find anything on the plans that shows what this joggle is for. Am I missing something? I feel like I'm spending hours puzzling over every hole these days - didn't seem to have that problem on the tail and wings. The old brain must be fried from all the primer use (do you need to alodyne you brain for best results?)... Tom Goeddel RV-6a (lets see... 1 week per hole X 13000 holes... ugh...) tgoeddel(at)monmouth.com (home) goeddel(at)lucent.com (work) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 05, 1997
Subject: Re: air box
I made a regular fairing just like the ones that fair the main gear legs and attached it to the cowl with three nutplates. This makes removing the lower cowl very easy and fairs the gear leg better than the little foam piece. There was a picture of this in my newsletter along with the article about my cowl flap design. Jim Cone jamescone(at)aol.com Ready to fly with good weather. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ve7fp(at)jetstream.net (Ken Hoshowski)
Subject: Re: Rvs ready to fly in 97
Date: Jan 05, 1997
---------- > From: Dr John Cocker <medhumor.com!jcocker(at)matronics.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Rvs ready to fly in 97 > Date: Sunday, January 05, 1997 7:04 AM > > From comments made on the list, and in the current RVator, there are many, > maybe hundreds, of RVs ready to take to the skies this year. The people at > Vans are hoping to see 250 at Oshkosh this year. > If you would like to e-mail to me, your type of RV, registation #, estimated > completion date, and if you intend to fly to Oshkosh, I will make up a list. > > John C-GDOC, ready by Spring. John, Add me to your list for OSH RV6 C-FKEH 1st. flight Sept 93 160 HP Constant Speed Note. I am also the editor of the Western Canada RVator a quarterly newsletter for RV builders, flyers and interested builders. For more info ve7fp(at)jetstream.net Ken Hoshowski Beautiful British Columbia ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 05, 1997
Subject: Re: High Altitude performance
Mark, My wife and I fly a modified 0320-E2A RV4 with a fixed pitch prop throughout the summer and even winter when weather allows. We have flown out of leadville on several occasions. We have freinds in Buena Vista and fly there regularly, also travel to Aspen alot. We have never experienced any problem leaving the ground. The RV still gets off the ground in a fairly short distance and depending on the day it climbs quite well also. I have never seen less than a 500fpm climb out of leadville with full fuel and day bags. I weigh 220 and my wife weighs around 125 (she tells me). Your 8 equiped as you stated should work great up here. Ryan Bendure RV4131RB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N595CM(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 05, 1997
Subject: Re: Sport Aviation Sites on Internet
I am fairly new to the internet, Where are some sites that would be of interest to sport and experimental pilots? Chris May RV-4 N595CM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TimRV6A(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 05, 1997
Subject: Rudder pedal slant, rudder brace cutout
A while back, Ross said >My suggestion to those who haven't built the pedals yet.....Don't rivet on >the inside pieces which attach to the brake cylinder, just clamp them in >place. Install into the rudder pedals with the brake cylinders and postion >the pieces up or down to get the slant you want and to get them even on >both sides. I made some dummy F-6117A's (the piece that connects the brake pedal to the master cylinder). I found that in order to get both brake pedals to slant back 1 inch I needed to increase the 1 1/2" dimension by 1/4" for the left pedal and 7/16 for the right pedal. Also, for you quickbuilders, be aware that you need to cut about 3 1/2" off the flange off of F-6118 rudder brace so it will clear the F601K oil filter/governor box (if you bought one). Also, I recommend you DO NOT rivet F-6118 in place too soon. When it's riveted in place it's pretty difficult to remove and replace the rudder pedal assembly. Tim Lewis Major, USAF, finally! RV-6AQ TimRV6A(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 1997
From: "Anne B. Hiers" <CRAIG-RV-4.@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: rocky mtn
listers I'm interested in getting an engine monitor for my rv. I have seen the Rocky mtn monitor and the micro-vision monitor. There is a considerable price diffrence between the two. Does any body have any input on which is the best value. I talked with the peolpe at rocky mtn, they seem to be straight up, but I have been wrong before ( go figure). Vans sells the micro-vision at about 3 times the rocky mtn unit, but price does not always tell the whole story Any input would be of great help. Craig Hiers Tallahassee,FL ( yes FSU got thier butts kicked ) RV-4 N143CH ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 1997
From: Dana Breda <rv6av8r(at)ols.net>
Subject: Re: Van's Isspro instruments of reasonable quality?
>Are the Isspro instruments offered in Van's accessories catalog of reasonable >quality? Does anybody have experience with them? Good or Bad? > I didn't buy the guages, but used Van's Isspro sending units in my tanks. Bad choice. On the ground, they seem to stick and read all over the dial. I believe they are fairly accurate in flight, but I don't trust them. Incidently, I used some Westach guages, and wouldn't do that again, either. I think you get what you pay for... Dana Breda N138DB in NC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 1997
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net>
Subject: Re: Van's Isspro instruments of reasonable quality?
>Are the Isspro instruments offered in Van's accessories catalog of reasonable >quality? Does anybody have experience with them? Good or Bad? > >If you don't like these, which brand do you prefer? Dear ????, The Isspro look cheap to me. On something as important as measuring our expensive engines, I wouldn't chintz on instrumentation. I'm using Rochester electric gauges (ACS). They work very well, are a little more expensive than average and are very heavy. Mitchell makes electric gauges (oil temp, oil press, fuel pressure, etc.) both round and rectangular. The later look similar to Piper and Cessna strips and can be configured both vertically and horizontally. For ease of service, they remove from the front. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com (If everyone would sign their posts as above, we would know who we are talking to and it would make it a lot easier to post a reply to the sender instead of the list) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 1997
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net>
Subject: Re: Sport Aviation Sites on Internet
> I am fairly new to the internet, Where are some sites that would be of >interest to sport and experimental pilots? > Chris May >RV-4 N595CM Chris, These ought to keep you busy for awhile. You should be able to copy and paste the various entries into your internet software. Have fun. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com http://www.vanbortel.com/airpower.html http://www.airtourist.com/PennYan.htm http://www.superair.com/ http://www.sensenich.com/ http://www.sensenich.com/misc/usecare.htm http://www.sierra.net/skyranch/ http://members.aol.com/TBOHome/index.html http://www.sierra.net:80/skyranch/marvel2.htm http://www.earthlink.net/~rkhu/vans/list.htm http://www.eaa.org/ http://www.insync.net/~sidl/tips.html http://atlantis.austin.apple.com/people.pages/jhovan/home.html http://dunkin.Princeton.EDU/.rvlist/ http://www.insync.net/~sidl/glastar.html http://www.insync.net/~sidl/hangar.html http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/ http://www.airparts.com/airlinks.html http://gtravis.ucs.indiana.edu/ http://www.everett.net/users/allnight/ http://rampages.onramp.net/~micheleb/hanger.html http://www.eaa.org/oshkosh/index.html http://members.aol.com/TaleWheel/homebilt.htm http://www.hooked.net/baicorp/aerocrafter/ http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~fortuned/homeb.html http://www.sky.net/~kvap/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 1997
From: d shipman <innovate(at)dallas.net>
Subject: fastback rv-3
Hello everyone: I was just reading the October 93 RVator and there is a photo of Pete Ward's RV-3. Does anyone know about this fastback modification or how to contact Mr. Ward? Thanks, David in Dallas innovate(at)dallas.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 1997
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: Leaf spring gear?
>I believe I read some where, regarding the RV6A air beetle project getting >alum leaf spring gear. It seems a natural upgrade to the current RV6 series >to me. Couldn't a this open up a engine mount which holds a nose wheel, and >the tail dragger mounts, at the same time, plus leaf mounts on the belly/spar >offering owners the options to switch around? > >I for one desire (am building) an RV6 final flyer. But I'd love to >train/start the RV experience in an RV6A. Care to discuss? Just couldn't wait to get my word in on this one! The Air Beetle project started with composite main gear, then went to aluminum and finally flat bar steel legs, the same as the first RV-8. The steel legs seem to be holding up ok, but the composite delaminated (we had a set, well two sets on Van's -6T and they delaminated too), then went to aluminum but they started yeilding (the -6T is still on aluminum) then finally the Beetle ended up on the steel legs. This flat bar is only used on the mains. If you think about it, the engine mount does not change when you go to different mains on a tri-gear because the mains attach to the spar. So for all practical purposes, a 6 wheeler could be built with the current legs. What is the penalty (nothing comes for free!)? The two big items are weight and cost, and as you know, Van is very conscious about both of these parameters. The extra cost would be associated with two sets of gear legs because the -6 mains are different from the -6A mains, plus the cost and weight of the extra steel hanging on the engine mount. May not sound like much, but weight is hard to remove from an airframe, and once you get your RV flying you will see how the performance REALLY changes depending on whether someone is sitting in the other seat, or how full the tanks are. True sport flying (P-51 wanta-be flying) is a great thrill, and it doesn't involve low flying nor unsafe flying. The best way to achieve both an RV-6 and an RV-6A is to become a REPEAT OFFENDER. That solves the problem of withdrawl symptoms, and you get a second chance to correct all of those things that just are not the way you had envisioned them. By that time you will have forgotten about all those things you called Van's Aircraft when you had problems, about the frustrating evening(s) trying to interpret the plans, etc. Just joshin! ---- Bill Bill RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV flying hours. These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 1997
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: rocky mtn
>listers > >I'm interested in getting an engine monitor for my rv. I have seen >the Rocky mtn monitor and the micro-vision monitor. >There is a considerable price diffrence between the two. >Does any body have any input on which is the best value. I talked >with the peolpe at rocky mtn, they seem to be straight up, but I >have been wrong before ( go figure). >Vans sells the micro-vision at about 3 times the rocky mtn unit, >but price does not always tell the whole story >Any input would be of great help. > >Craig Hiers >Tallahassee,FL ( yes FSU got thier butts kicked ) >RV-4 N143CH Craig, Van's has used the VM1000, but we have never used the RM engine package. The price difference is partly due to the probe costs. The VM1000 comes with probes, the RM does not. Beware when buying temp probes because there are type K probes and type J (I think). We have used the RM airspeed/altimeter and it works nicely. Either one is a good unit. Bill Bill RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV flying hours. These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bennett(at)healey.com.au
Date: Jan 06, 1997
Subject: Re: Sport Aviation Sites on Internet
> Chris, These ought to keep you busy for awhile. You should be able to copy > and paste the various entries into your internet software. Have fun. > > Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com Good one Bob. Thanks from the rest of us. Peter Bennett Sydney Australia RV6 working inside fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Davis" <jdavis1(at)ford.com>
Date: Jan 06, 1997
Subject: BAC kits and buildtimes (chatter)
I am just completing my empennage (RV6 non-prepunched) and am getting serious about ordering the rest of the kit. I am a little confused between the options available. Can someone explain the difference between the prepunched, quick build and the options available from BAC? * If you order a quick build do you need any of the services offered by BAC or is it only for the prepunced kits?? * If I do go with a quick build (First Choice) what is the best way to have it delivered (or should I pick it up)? (I live in Michigan) Thanks for your help. -- Jeffrey S. Davis - Phone (313)845-5224 Senior Research Engineer Advance Vehicle Technology Ford Motor Company ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GASobek(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 1997
Subject: Red color 100LL Avgas / MS21919
Does anyone know what happens when a large quanty of water enters Chervon blue 100LL avgas? It the process of running a test to determine the compatability of the rubber on Adel clamps in Avgas, I poured 100LL into a container what was cleaned out with water. With about 20 drops of water and 20 drops of 100LL avgas, it turned red like 80/87 avgas. The Aiport Line Service manager that manages the airport fuel service said that this is normal if water contamination occurs. The black rubber on the MS21919 Adel clamp was not effected by the 100LL after 18 hours. The red rubber used on the clamps was very deteriorated. I was told by a T-18 builder that the black rubber on the clamps was not fuel resistant and that the red was. I showed him the sample after 18 hours. He is going to do some additional research. The Aircraft Spruce catalog list the MS21919 clamps as non-fuel resistant. I do not believe everything that I read in books or on the internet. My test in the 100LL is still on going. The server is down at work that will tie me into the library CD that has all MS specifictions. I will check the MS specification and terminate the test at one week. Anyone else have problems with the black rubber deteriorating on the MS21919 clamps when exposed to Avgas? Gary A. Sobek RV-6 20480 N157GS ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Van's Isspro instruments of reasonable quality?
From: wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen)
Date: Jan 06, 1997
I used the Issopro gauges and have had zero troubles with them. No sticking, and consistant readings. Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen1(at)juno.com writes: >>Are the Isspro instruments offered in Van's accessories catalog of reasonable >>quality? Does anybody have experience with them? Good or Bad? >> >I didn't buy the guages, but used Van's Isspro sending units in my tanks. >Bad choice. On the ground, they seem to stick and read all over the dial. >I believe they are fairly accurate in flight, but I don't trust them. >Incidently, I used some Westach guages, and wouldn't do that again, either. >I think you get what you pay for... > >Dana Breda N138DB in NC > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Active Noise Cancelation in the cabin.
Date: Jan 06, 1997
From: Bill Downey <billd(at)ibmoto.com>
A friend of mine, who has a pilot's certificate but hasn't flown in years, sent me a pointer to an interesting web page. The web page has a small blurb about active noise control for the cabin. They have a system that has been certified on the Beech King Air and the Cessna Conquest. Check out http://www.lordcorp.com/nvx/NVX_ANC_Page.html Has any one thought of doing this for an RV? One could save a lot of money on Bose headsets. Bill Downey ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 1997
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com>
Subject: Re: rocky mtn
>listers > >I'm interested in getting an engine monitor for my rv. I have seen >the Rocky mtn monitor and the micro-vision monitor. >There is a considerable price diffrence between the two. >Does any body have any input on which is the best value. I talked >with the peolpe at rocky mtn, they seem to be straight up, but I >have been wrong before ( go figure). >Vans sells the micro-vision at about 3 times the rocky mtn unit, >but price does not always tell the whole story >Any input would be of great help. > >Craig Hiers >Tallahassee,FL ( yes FSU got thier butts kicked ) >RV-4 N143CH > > Craig, I have built the RMI micromonitor and will be installing it in my RV-6A within a week. I have nothing but praise for this kit and the company behind it. Their customer service is outstanding. The kit was easy to assemble and appears to work well. It took me a very enjoyably 20 hours to put together. If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't hesitate to build another. Actually I had so much fun with the micromonitor that I will probably put a microencoder in the plane in the future. Hope this helps. Scott Gesele N506RV (Hope to finish by May) scottg(at)villagenet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 1997
From: Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.co.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Justice Manual?
Text item: >Hi, >Just starting my -4 and wanted to know more information on the Frank Justice >manuals. >Thanks in advance >Rob Rob: The Justice manual is a set of step-by-step instructions for building most sections of an RV-6 or -6A. RV4 builders can use the tail and wing sections because they are almost identical in the two models. The instructions are intended to supplement rather than replace the constructiona manual that comes from Van's with the kits. They are text only (no pictures) to make them easier for everybody to make use of. The general idea is to have a set of steps that when followed in order will keep you from making common mistakes, help you handle unclear or inadequate instructions in Van's manual, make sure no steps get missed, and keep you from having to undo work because you find out you should have done something else earlier. The instructions are intended for the average builder who does not have access to the more expensive tools, does not intend to build a show plane, and does not have a lot of airplane building skills. The are also designed to produce an airplane that is as close as possible to what Dick VanGrunsven intended. The descriptions of a large number of the operations are derived from other local builders and this internet list, but only those that follow the above philosophy. There are no instructions for the rudder or vertical stabilizer since I didn't start writing until I got to the elevators. Unfortunately laying out the rudder was one of the most confusing parts of the airplane before the prepunched kits became available but I could not get any volunteers to write this up for me. At the moment the instructions go up through most of the finish work but will not include things like the engine and instruments installation because everybody does theirs differently and there are numerous books on these subjects. I am still making minor changes to all of the manual as I run across things in my own project that I should have done differently. I also pick up hints from this list but I do not have time to read all the postings so many good pointers are probably missed. I do ask that people have have a good idea address it directly to me, Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.co.intel.com or frank(at)ssd.intel.com so I will be sure to see it. The manual is available on John Hovan's web site, http://rv.austin.apple.com/jhovan/home/home.html For those of you without a web browser I can send out a diskette in Word for Windows format. FKJ Text item: External Message Header The following mail header is for administrative use and may be ignored unless there are problems. ***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***. Subject: RV-List: Justice Manual? Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 17:12:47 -0500 From: aol.com!Robbdog(at)matronics.com ay.jf.intel.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA15028 for Subject: Re: rocky mtn
From: ron.taborek(at)flight642.com (RON TABOREK)
Date: Jan 06, 1997
Craig, I bought and built a Rocky Mountain MicroEncoder. It is a fine instrument and I got good support from the company. Their engine monitor was a prime contender for my engine instruments as well. I would suggest you might give some thought to the Audio Flight Avionics AV-10, which I ultimately bought. Comparing the two, the RMI is a rectangular, multi function display kit, the AFA is a pre-built 3 1/8" circular display of one parameter at a time, scrolled manually or automatically. The AFA will scan and warn of more parameters than the RMI. It also gives audio warnings if limits are exceeded or periodic audio assurances that all is within limits. The price is about half the RMIs. The company is local here so I have met Rod Long, the president, and had good support. For example, I was wondering what to do with all the measurement channels and decided to use water temp to measure fuel temp. No big reason to do so, it was just possible so I did it. They adjusted the software labelling to reflect that. If you are interested their Email address is afa(at)user.rose.com There are a lot of interesting choices in this area these days. Ron Taborek RV-4 Installing O-320 Toronto ron.taborek(at)flight642.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 1997
From: willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills)
Subject: Re: Justice Manual?
Rob, Its available via Hovans RV page at http://rv.austin.apple.com/jhovan/home.html It is for construction of a RV-6 and is based on a kit before any pre-punch, but it is a good supplement to the Vans manual. Mike Wills RV-4 (wings) willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil >Hi, >Just starting my -4 and wanted to know more information on the Frank Justice >manuals. >Thanks in advance >Rob > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PFPA(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 1997
Subject: Best of the RV-ator supplement pages almost sold out
TO THOSE WHO HAVE THE ORIGINAL 14 YEARS OF THE RV-ATOR BOOK: As we advertised, the RV-Ator supplement pages to add the years 1994 - '95 to the older 14 year books would be available only through December. However there are still about 20 sets left. This is your last chance to get the supplement pages. Once they are gone, they are gone. The supplement page sets will not be reprinted. The supplement sets are $16 and can be ordered by e-mail with a Mastercard or Visa. This note does pertain to the current and complete 16 YEARS OF THE RV-ATOR book. The current 16 year book (1980-1995) will be available till around February 1998. Thanks Andy Gold RV-6A - finishing cowling ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BestBillO(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 1997
Subject: Re: Engine monitors
I have been flying with the VM-1000 for 2 + years and have been quite pleased. When I calculated what each instrument would have cost if purchased individually, the VM1000 was actually a bit cheaper, not to mention saving space. That is, of course, if you would have purchased all of the instruments anyway. I've had to replace a couple of "sending units", but overall the service and quality have been excellent. By the way, I only wish I had a moving map the size of the VM1000. The new Cirrus has one that supposedly will also include engine instruments. Now, if we could only get Vision Microsystems to upgrade their instrument.... Bill Orcutt, RV-6A BestBillO(at)AOL.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 1997
From: Mark LaBoyteaux <tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Questions about top of F-606
> The F-688 has been included in the kit > (other parts not used in the slider are not included...). Is the F-688 > gusset used with the slider? Yes it is. > 2. If F-688 is used, it would seem to cause a step under the top skin as the > F-688 is on top of the F-606 and F-687. Is this a problem? (This would seem > to be relevant to the tip-up as well...) Well, I worried about that, too. So what I did, was to make a shim the same thickness as the F-688 that runs the full length of F-687 to alleviate a possible step in the top skin. I installed this at the same time that I located and drilled the F-687 to F-606 and -607. Now, when you locate the slide ass'y for the canopy, it is attached with #6 screws that go through the skin, the shim, and F-687. > 3. There is no dimension shown on SC-1 for where the C-664 threaded rod used > to adjust the front part of the C-662/663 track goes through the F-606 > bulkhead. If the plans are to scale, it looks like this hole will end up > near the bottom of the F-687 rib flange. Is that correct? Is that the one > place I need to avoid putting a rivet in the top F-606 joint? Well, I'm about to drill mine today, and yes it's a problem. I've got 2 flush rivets in this area that hold the F-606 pieces together, and I'm going to have to drill the 1/4" hole right between them. If I had known about it earlier, I would have left more space between them. > 4. There is a joggle in the flange of the F-606 pieces, a little over an > inch wide (half in each half of the F-606 bulkhead), located at the top > center of the bulkhead. I can't seem to find anything on the plans that > shows what this joggle is for. Am I missing something? These "joggles" as you call them are to allow clearance of the top flanges when you overlap the two top pieces for assembly. Oh yea, the bottom rivets that hold the top pieces together will need to be flush in order to provide clearance for the F-652. See sheet 37. > Tom Goeddel > RV-6a (lets see... 1 week per hole X 13000 holes... ugh...) > tgoeddel(at)monmouth.com (home) > goeddel(at)lucent.com (work) If you think your spending hours puzzling over it now, just wait till you start the canopy! Good luck. Mark LaBoyteaux RV-6a working on sliding canopy tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 1997
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Sport Aviation Sites on Internet
www.matronics.com has a 'links' page, with sites gathered from members of this list. www.edt.com/homewing is the "Van's Air Force, Home Wing home page, and also has a list of links to other rv/homebuilt/aviation sites. Randall Henderson, RV-6 randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 1997
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Justice Manual?
>The instructions are intended to supplement rather than replace the >constructiona manual that comes from Van's with the kits. They are text only (no >pictures) to make them easier for everybody to make use of. The general idea is >to have a set of steps that when followed in order will keep you from making >common mistakes, help you handle unclear or inadequate instructions in Van's >manual, make sure no steps get missed, and keep you from having to undo work >because you find out you should have done something else earlier. > >The instructions are intended for the average builder who does not have access >to the more expensive tools, does not intend to build a show plane, and does >not have a lot of airplane building skills. The are also designed to produce an >airplane that is as close as possible to what Dick VanGrunsven intended. The >descriptions of a large number of the operations are derived from other local >builders and this internet list, but only those that follow the above >philosophy. > >There are no instructions for the rudder or vertical stabilizer since I didn't >start writing until I got to the elevators. Unfortunately laying out the rudder >was one of the most confusing parts of the airplane before the prepunched kits >became available but I could not get any volunteers to write this up for me. Ahhhh... I wondered about the lack of those sections. Those people building a prepunched kit (and possibly also the others) may want to look at my "Bunny's Guide to Building an RV". So far, it covers the HS and VS, plus a little on the rudder and elevator. I think/hope it is more useful for a novice builder than FKJ's manual, and it is more in the form of notes, explanations, and clarifications of the Van's manual than step-by-step instructions. Apart from that, it follows FKJ's philosophy as outlined above. The Bunny's Guide warns of mistakes that *I* made, and my solutions. Since I haven't made *every* possible mistake and probably haven't adopted the best solutions, I solicit other people's experiences for inclusion in the Guide. The Bunny's Guide is available from http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/bunny.htm Hope this helps somebody, Frank. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass; Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read". PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!" http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ | -------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV Web Page Update
Date: Jan 06, 1997
From: John Hovan <hovan(at)apple.com>
Hi All, The last chapter of the Frank Justice RV Builders manual was posted = to the RV web page last week. The web address is... "rv.austin.apple.com/jhovan/home.html" If you are experiencing slow response times, please be patient. RV = enthusiasm is running high! Here are some stats on the web page... =80 On average there is one access every three minutes for RV info. =80 The web server serves up in excess of 5 Gigabytes of RV data per = day. (You read this right 5 gigs of RV data per day. Hello Van's = Aircraft...the web is helping your company!!) =80 Maximum simultaneous users per day is 9 users. =80 Average people reading data per hour is 25 users. thanks, John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <James.E.Clark(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: BAC kits and buildtimes (chatter)
Date: Jan 06, 1997
If you go with the QB, you may wish to punch your own skins as there are some pieces that are already "anchored" in the fuselage. Everything **might** fit just fine, but if it didn't, the last thing I would think you would want to be doing is rearranging the fine work on the QB just as you are coming familiar with the fine art of measuring, cutting, drilling, etc. (Of course I am assuming you are not already a seasoned pro ... no offense meant if you are already). If you have the $$, I would say let somebody else worry about slipping on the snow and ice delivering it. Spend your time getting ready for it. James James.E.Clark(at)worldnet.att.net RV6AQ (N?????) --- Fuselage Skins Archer II (N8211S) --- Flying ---------- > From: Jeff Davis <ford.com!jdavis1(at)matronics.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: (Fwd) RV-List: BAC kits and buildtimes (chatter) > Date: Monday, January 06, 1997 7:14 AM > > I am just completing my empennage (RV6 non-prepunched) and am getting serious > about ordering the rest of the kit. I am a little confused between the options > available. Can someone explain the difference between the prepunched, quick > build and the options available from BAC? > > * If you order a quick build do you need any of the services offered by BAC or > is it only for the prepunced kits?? > > * If I do go with a quick build (First Choice) what is the best way to have it > delivered (or should I pick it up)? (I live in Michigan) > > Thanks for your help. > > > -- > Jeffrey S. Davis - Phone (313)845-5224 > Senior Research Engineer > Advance Vehicle Technology > Ford Motor Company ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com>
Subject: Bill's damaged RV6
Date: Jan 06, 1997
Bill, that was an incredible story about your RV being run over by the Chevy (per your story in the RVator). I wonder what the odds are of that happening are (putting your plane in a friends hangar the day a car's transmission pops into reverse and heads across the airport for YOUR airplane)? I am glad you had it insured an no one was hurt. Thanks for all the great articles in the RVator. I think you went a little too far to get this story however :-). Herman > Bill > RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV > flying hours. > These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or > position of my employer. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 1997
From: Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com>
Subject: RVs ready to fly in 97
Sorry I forgot to include my email address. Would those who expect to have their RVs flying in 1997, let me know : 1. The estimated date of first flight. 2. If they hope to go to Oshkosh in 97 I will post the list when it is available. John Cocker. C-GDOC jcocker(at)medhumor.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: wire-feed welding
Date: Jan 06, 1997
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBFBF0.BE416460 If you make that switch you should use straight Argon and you will = probably need a hand spool gun. ($$$) I'm still looking for an = inexpensive used one. The Alum. wire is too soft to thread through the = wire feed cable. You will probably be better off paying someone if thats = all you need to do. I haven't had any luck welding Alum. with my Henrob = but I haven't tried that much either. I'm sure it is all technique and = the right alloy's. Al prober(at)iwaynet.net Consider adding argon / CO2 mixture gas and switching to core-less = wire - Much nicer results Larry --=20 Larry D. Hoatson lhoatson(at)empirenet.com Yucaipa, CA (L12) Restoring 1950 Cessna 170A N9948A Looking forward to RV6Q ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBFBF0.BE416460 eJ8+IhwVAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ACQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAEkAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20AU01UUABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20A AAAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABYAAABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20A AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAYAAAAJ3J2LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbScAAgEL MAEAAAAbAAAAU01UUDpSVi1MSVNUQE1BVFJPTklDUy5DT00AAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYP AQAAAAQAAAAAAAADNDcBCIAHABgAAABJUE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90ZQAxCAEEgAEAHwAA AFJFOiBSVi1MaXN0OiB3aXJlLWZlZWQgd2VsZGluZwA+CgEFgAMADgAAAM0HAQAGAA8AFwAAAAEA AgEBIIADAA4AAADNBwEABgAPAA8ADgABAAgBAQmAAQAhAAAAMkM1NDY4QkQ5QTY3RDAxMThEMkE0 NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAA4AYBA5AGAHQEAAASAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwA2AAAA AABAADkAIMsUaQ/8uwEeAHAAAQAAAB8AAABSRTogUlYtTGlzdDogd2lyZS1mZWVkIHdlbGRpbmcA AAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG7/A9pDb1oVC1nmhHQjSpERVNUAAAAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAA HgAfDAEAAAATAAAAcHJvYmVyQGl3YXluZXQubmV0AAADAAYQuRSTFQMABxAdAgAAHgAIEAEAAABl AAAASUZZT1VNQUtFVEhBVFNXSVRDSFlPVVNIT1VMRFVTRVNUUkFJR0hUQVJHT05BTkRZT1VXSUxM UFJPQkFCTFlORUVEQUhBTkRTUE9PTEdVTigkJCQpSU1TVElMTExPT0tJTkdGTwAAAAACAQkQAQAA APECAADtAgAAWgQAAExaRnVvrffH/wAKAQ8CFQKoBesCgwBQAvIJAgBjaArAc2V0MjcGAAbDAoMy A8UCAHByQnER4nN0ZW0CgzN3AuQHEwKAfQqACM8J2TvxFg8yNTUCgAqBDbELYOBuZzEwMxRQCwoU UQUL8mMAQCBJZiB5hQhgIADAa2UgdBGAmwVAA+F0EXAbE3NoCGAwbGQgdRGwG/B0clkLcGdoBUAH EGcCICBvAHAdABsiA/BsAyATUG/CYgGgbHkgbgngHQCMYSARgB5hc3BvBvAAIGd1bi4gKCTlITAp GuAnbR1RHuIVoORvawuAZyACEAXAA5GxC4BleHAJ8ACQdhuQlx0hHQACIGUhAFRoG5D6QQpAbSEA A/AWECMABCD2dCCQG/BvAYAlgRuhFhD+YR0AJlEIYB2wG6EbkCUTWmYfwmMfYSRBWR6vYn8bkCmw AkAEkCQQDdAfEGH+eSJiJdAHgCQhIwAbABuyPwQgB0ADIBsiH7MmIWRvzyEAGuAgESOgbicFQBGA TR/hbh+QCkBjax7AZb8c8CJiJLYbsBtQH5BICfD7HzEpoHUFQC1oHXAIkCai7RvRbS6QHFBlL8EE kCEA/yGDCHAlQQVAJWEsEhPQEXD9AwBxClAeQydCBRAdsiwR8G95J3MhACSwLUAfIjEEkEBpdyqg H7B0Lv83MQqFCoU4cxnNHyE0MQVA7whQAIEEgR5AZC8DCsAeEgovOjBPEeBtaXh0+TNSZ2Er8SBC HBMiYiYheQWhZS0oUAQRJRIKi2y4aTM2OaE4/zoCLQXQuzJCAwBjKiEWEDNAbCvgpTesTArAcnkK hS1BQMlC+iBEIQBIbyvRHiGtOHJsHMBFc0AT4HAlIe83MgWgIaA4clkukAtwCrAKLDowQSEQTDEy KT03rFIHkCWQBRAicTE5LDUwOjA+MW4gADE3AjBIYE45OTQ4QfcKhgGRLUBMIjg3AAsgJhLwUlY2 UTesN6w/L0A/CwqFFTEAUpAAAAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAQAAHMCBJqFMO/LsBQAAIMCBJqFMO /LsBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAADbLA== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBFBF0.BE416460-- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 1997
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Identifying the "Adel" clamp
I've seen some conversation recently concerning "Adel" clamps and their suitability for use around fuel, high temps, etc. I've pulled the specs and will excerpt some of their contents as follows: The "Adel" clamp is more properly called an MS21919 aircraft clamp. The company named Adel built a goodly portion of the MS21919 clamps back in the 60's (and may still). The term sort of stuck on these devices in spite of the fact that they are now made by dozens of companies. The full description for these clamps follows the convention MS21919XXZZ where XX (the two letters immediately following the specification number) have the following significance: DE = Aluminum band, Ethylene Propylene Cushion (212F) DF = Aluminum band, Nitrile Cushion (212F) DG = Aluminum band, Chloroprene Cushion (212F) CE = Corrosion Resistant Steel band, Ethylene Propylene Cushion (275F) CF = Corrosion Resistant Steel band, Nitrile Propylene Cushion (200F) CH = Corrosion Resistant Steel band, Silicone Cushion (400F) CG = Corrosion Resistant Steel band, Chloroprene Cushion (212F) CJ = Corrosion Resistant Steel band, Fluorosilicone Cushion (450F) F = Low Carbon Steel Band, Nitrile Cushion (212F) (Note 1) G = Low Carbon Steel Band, Chloroprene Cushion (212F) (Note 1) H = Low Carbon Steel Band, Silicon Cushion (400F) (Note 1) Cushion Application and Color Information: Ethylene Propylene - for use in areas contaminated with phosphate ester hydraulic fluid and other synthetic fluids. Excellent ozone resistance., Not resistant to petroleum based fluids. Color shall be solid purple. Nitrile - for use primarily in fuel immersion and fuel vapors. Good ozone resistance. Not resistant to phosphate-ester based fluids. Not for use on titanium tubing. Color shall be solid yellow. Chloroprene - for general purpose use in areas contaminated with petroleum based hydraulic fluids and occasional fuel splash. Excellent ozone resistant. Not resistant to phosphate ester based fluids. Not for use on titanium tubing. Color shall be black with a blue identifier patch. Silicone - for elevated temperature usage in phosphate ester based fluid and other synthetic fluid contaminated areas. Unaffected by ozone. Not resistant to petroleum based fluids. Color shall be natural white. Fluorosilicone - for elevated temperature usage in petroleum based fluid contaminated areas. Unaffected by ozone. Not resistant to phosphate-ester based fluids. Color shall be solid blue. Note 1. Clamps with low carbon steel bands are not recommended for new design and most were purged from stocks back in early 80's . . . however . . . you never know what might show up in the Fly-Market at OSH so I've included the "heads up" here. ------------------------------- The last characters (ZZ) are digits describing the internal diameter of the closed clamp in 1/16ths of an inch. E.G. an MS21219DG4 is aluminum strap inside a chloroprene cushion and sized to support 1/4" diameter bundle of wires, tubing, etc. I note that the spec does not speak to the "red" cushions currently being discussed. I recall seeing a number of clamps with red cushions over the years but quite frankly, I don't know if they were MS21919 or perhaps some other part number. It's also possible that the red cushions are very old surplus that are now obsolete (at least in terms of the specification) and are simply no longer described. As I recall, the red critters are softer and remind me of silicon based rubber . . . . if so, the red cushion clamps are indeed unsuitable for use around areas wet with fuel and/or grease. However, these ARE the cushions of choice for use in high temperature areas. I'll dig around the bins here at Raytheon and see if I can get an indentity on the "red" cushion clamps. Regards, Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========oOOo=(_)=oOOo========== | | | Go ahead, make my day . . . | | Show me where I'm wrong. | ================================= 72770.552(at)compuserve.com http://www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 1997
From: barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart)
Subject: Re: Leaf spring gear?
>I believe I read some where, regarding the RV6A air beetle project getting >alum leaf spring gear. It seems a natural upgrade to the current RV6 series >to me. Couldn't a this open up a engine mount which holds a nose wheel, and >the tail dragger mounts, at the same time, plus leaf mounts on the belly/spar >offering owners the options to switch around? > >I for one desire (am building) an RV6 final flyer. But I'd love to >train/start the RV experience in an RV6A. Care to discuss? I think what you're talking about is the possibility of modifying the RV-6 design so that you could switch back-and-forth between tailwheel and nosewheel configurations. I think there are too many subtle differences between the -6 and the -6A to make that feasable. SOme that I can think of right off the top of my head are: 1. Brake line routing. 2. F612: tailsprint mount vs tie-down ring 3. slot in bottom of -6A cowling for nosegear I bet I could think of some more if I tried. Usually, this sort of discussion is prompted by the lack of tailwheel experience. If that is the case, don't worry about it. Go get 10 hrs of tailwheel transition training in a Champ, and you'll have no problems. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart barnhart(at)a.crl.com rv-6 sn 23744 Engine Mount ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNES_ERIC(at)tandem.com
Date: - - - , 20-
Subject: BAC kits - RV8?
As an RV-8 builder, I'm wondering, is a BAC kit offered/in the works for the -8? If so, how much of what goes into the current BAC kit is now being done by Van's (if anything)? I know the pre-built spars are standard with the -8, but is there also more layout/pre-pundhing being done? Anyone have enough knowledge of both the BAC kit, and the new RV-8 wing kits to shed some light on this comparison? Thanks, EB #80131 Empennage barnes_eric(at)tandem.com ------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT -------- SENT 01-05-97 FROM SMTPGATE (McManD(at)aol.com) I speak for two, first time, non experienced RV6 builders here within 10 miles of one another. We purchased (2) the complete fast build assemblies as we knew it @ 1.5 years ago, prior to Van's offering the complete factory fast build. We are 100% completely satisfied with Phlogistions spars (@$795), BAC quick build components (@$1500) and BAC deluxe assembly kits (@ $2200). The 3rd service is not all that well known? Purchasing all 3, your spar and complete wing kit goes directly from Van's AC to BAC Calif. There BAC completely transforms the wing kit into a total prepunched, pre fitted, dry fit assembly. Adding in these 3 options, you get delivered wing kits all prepunched, at 99% of the locations. All you do is jig it up and with in hours, you are ready to fit your pre-punched skins. Now you've got a tight fitting jig saw puzzle well marked, plus suplemental plan verbage and CAD drawings in tough to understand areas. Steve Barnard will go out of his way to answer questions you may have and stands by his products, as noted in other RVlist memos. True first time builders would have to fill in the true hours expended here but the addition of @ $4500 works out to @ $10 per hour. I calculated savings in hours at 50 hr for spars, 150 BAC quick build and 250 in wing kit? While I doubt I'll end up with a show plane, my wings, with great flap gaps, alieron fits, fuel tank fits, F604 to F605 gap right on B/P dim, back riveted skin surfaces, on and on, I couldn't be prouder of. They all came out great, with fewer asprin breaks compared to other sections I've built. Mind you my tail and fuselage have/are coming out pretty good too. If BAC were to offer a fuselage kit, I would have bought it too. I'm told from advanced RV fellow, flyer/builders we are fast builders (really???) but here would be my accounting for my build times so far. (Note I 100% prime a kit right out of the box, and touch up later as required). Empennage kit (old style, not prepunched) @ 284 hours 4/15/95 rec'd, 99% complete 10/3/95, 276 my hours, 7.5 assisted hours, 50 work sessions, avg 5.67 hrs/day. @165 days spent. (note I waited to long prior to ordering wings, I sat at the end of this section and puttered around a lot). Wings (Deluxe build kit prepped wings) @ 306 Hours (kit = @ 590 hr so far) 10/30/95 rec'd, Left wing, flap and aileron asm'y, 95% completed by 1/10/96, 159 my hours, 37.5 assisted hours, 33 work sessions, avg 5.95 hrs/day. @70 days spent. 1/13/96 started on Right wing, flap and aileron asm'y, 95% completed by 3/21/96, 90.5 my hours, 18.5 assisted hours, 33 work sessions, avg 5.95 hrs/day. @70 days spent. (note I rec'd and primed 85% fuselage kit in here and built a Fuselage jig in here also). Fuselage @ 90% comlete to date, @ 309 hours (kit = @ 856 hr so far) broken down as: 4/20/96 started, skeleton completed 6/16/96 at @ 120 hours. by 8/12/96, all skins fitted and back riveted on, at @ 85 hours later. 8/14/96, removed from jig, started top side work. @ 107 hours to date additional. Up to canopy frame fitting and dash board construction details now 1/5/96 David McManmon, RV6, 0320H2AD, Tip up, Cicero, NY E mail McManD(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 1997
From: chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net>
Subject: Where's Bernie
Does anyone know where Bernie Warnke is. I've called several times only to get his answering machine. -- Chet Razer crazer(at)egyptian.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Barry & Valerie Wawrin <barval(at)digital.net>
Subject: Sport Aviation Sites on Internet
Date: Jan 06, 1997
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBFC02.914D0A60 Chris these: http://www.aircraft-spruce.com/index.html http://www.sky.net/~kvap/kcrv1295.html http://www.landings.com/ http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker/ http://sportflyer.com/ http://www.edt.com/homewing/homecoming.html Enjoy, barry - still dreaming // RV-6A ---------- From: aol.com!N595CM(at)matronics.com[SMTP:aol.com!N595CM(at)matronics.com] Sent: Sunday, January 05, 1997 7:28 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Sport Aviation Sites on Internet I am fairly new to the internet, Where are some sites that would be of interest to sport and experimental pilots? Chris May RV-4 N595CM ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBFC02.914D0A60 eJ8+IgQXAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ACQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAEkAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20AU01UUABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20A AAAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABYAAABydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20A AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAYAAAAJ3J2LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbScAAgEL MAEAAAAbAAAAU01UUDpSVi1MSVNUQE1BVFJPTklDUy5DT00AAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYP AQAAAAQAAAAAAAADNDcBCIAHABgAAABJUE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90ZQAxCAEEgAEALgAA AFJFOiBSVi1MaXN0OiBTcG9ydCBBdmlhdGlvbiBTaXRlcyBvbiBJbnRlcm5ldAC9DwEFgAMADgAA AM0HAQAGABIAGwAtAAEANgEBIIADAA4AAADNBwEABgASABUAOQABADwBAQmAAQAhAAAANEE5RUNB N0JGMTY3RDAxMUI4RUQwMDIwQUYyMzNBNzAANgcBA5AGAFgEAAASAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAA AAsAKQAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAQIBbOCn8uwEeAHAAAQAAAC4AAABSRTogUlYtTGlzdDogU3Bv cnQgQXZpYXRpb24gU2l0ZXMgb24gSW50ZXJuZXQAAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABu/wpOFt7yp5LZ/ER 0LjtACCvIzpwAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAEwAAAGJhcnZhbEBkaWdpdGFs Lm5ldAAAAwAGEDy+lRkDAAcQEQIAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAENIUklTVEhFU0U6SFRUUDovL1dXV0FJ UkNSQUZULVNQUlVDRUNPTS9JTkRFWEhUTUxIVFRQOi8vV1dXU0tZTkVUL0tWQVAvS0NSVjEyOTVI VE1MSFRUUDovL1dXV0xBTkRJTkcAAAAAAgEJEAEAAADFAgAAwQIAAC0FAABMWkZ1hGxMxf8ACgEP AhUCqAXrAoMAUALyCQIAY2gKwHNldDI3BgAGwwKDMgPFAgBwckJxEeJzdGVtAoMzdwLkBxMCgH0K gAjPCdk78RYPMjU1AoAKgQ2xC2DgbmcxMDMUUAsKFFHFC/JjAEAgQ2gFEAQgZHRoB5BlOgqFCoVo QQJAcDovL3cdAC6VC3ByBQBhAYAtcxNQkHVjZS4FoG0vC4BJDbB4LhyQbWwcLy4gc2t5Lm4RwC9+ QGt2YXAvawUAdnAxMjk1Ht8c5BjxZLkLgGdzHjMh/AhhdwWw5GxkHjJwdRGwIUAeJKpoA3BlCrBn B5AvA2D0Yl8A0GsEkCPdHdAVsb0Y4HkEkCOfHOQJgHQl938D8BkQJjMeQSNRIaoKhUWgbmpveSwK hWIKwOByeSAtIBPAAxADIGpkFhBhK+IgHOAH8FYYLTZBG7wK9GxpMQQ4MALRaS0xNDTPDfAM0DHz C1kxNgqgA2D1E9BjBUAtNBcKhzLLDDB1M5ZGA2E6NR4zlgyCIEZhBvAeMiFONSGAQ7RNQADAdANg AwBjI4PAW1NNVFA6ON856X5dNL81zQZgAjA2/zgLU0p1HpBhLZAgSgBwdRMKwC5gMDVBQDE5OQA3 IDc6MjggUOZNPM81zVRvPw84CyFAPi0xUBPAObxC7z3edWJuajPRRQ84C1IbkC+yTNtHIUqgUyhy FLB2BzAusLsCIAYAaRPQBCBOEUkCMM8EkRHAMB8xIzM2MpcaRcczlk7AOMBtIGYdQSjApiAggAfg dG8bQiALgHtO9EFAVxtgFhA4wFShc18mUS6QTlMbUDnQICTwdeclIC4QU7BvZgqFU9MHkF8FQFNh KGM4wB6QIB6wcM8GcQeAAjAHQCBwAxAzsOxzPwqFGuVNQSAKhS/B/jQHsDuDHBZPz1DfM6UKhQUV MQBfwAAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcwQFQHaSj8uwFAAAgwQFQHaSj8uwEeAD0AAQAAAAUA AABSRTogAAAAAGU2 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBFC02.914D0A60-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 1997
Subject: engine overhaul, chapter one
Here's a report of my engine overhaul. Because my modem has an RPI (Runs Pretty Inconsistently) chipset, I will have to send this in two pcs of Email. Please be patient. And remember to avoid Rockwell modems- they're trouble. I just got the engine (and the bill) today. To set the stage, let me point out that the engine was a first-run with 1994 hrs TT, pulled from a C-172 for a Penn Yan 180 hp upgrade. I bought the core from a local and trusted A&P (not the one who overhauled it for me) who assured me it was a well cared-for and strong-running engine that should give several hundred more hours of trouble-free service before needing an overhaul; in other words, a lucky find. Turns out he was right, but I knew the hours remaining on the engine might be trouble-free but they would never be worry-free unless we did a tear-down. And since overhauls tend to take awhile and I was over a year from finished with the airframe, I decided to go for it. I got off cheaper than usual because so many parts were still within new limits- a tribute to AeroShell 15W-50, frequentl oil changes and other meticulous maintenance on this non-trainer aircraft. Don't expect these results if you have a core in worse shape or insist on keeping the paperwork "certified." Yellow tags and other red tape cost much more that green tags and magnafluxing done at the local speed shop, etc. I am told that once an engine is installed in a noncertified environment, i.e. on an experimental airplane, the engine is no longer legal for use in a certified application until it is re-yellow-tagged anyhow, so why bother chasing expensive paper?? (I'll bet that starts a thread!) To be continued... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 1997
Subject: Re: Bill's damaged RV6
<< Bill, that was an incredible story about your RV being run over by the Chevy (per your story in the RVator). I wonder what the odds are of that happening are (putting your plane in a friends hangar the day a car's transmission pops into reverse and heads across the airport for YOUR airplane)? I am glad you had it insured an no one was hurt. Thanks for all the great articles in the RVator. I think you went a little too far to get this story however :-). Herman >> Herman- I believe it was Ken's RV-6 that got munched, not Bill's. Still sad though. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 1997
From: Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Good Side
Hi all. I have just been installing the front side fuse. skins and came across a 'GOOD SIDE'ink stamp on the white plastic covering. (Needless to say that I had cut out the slot for the rear spar attachment point before I had noticed it and of course the mark was on the inside)) Is there a good side in Al sheets? Should it facew inside or outside? The other sheet has the normal manufacture's marks, but no Van's 'GOOD SIDE' stamp. I've got this far and have never seen this mark before. Thanks Royce (I only have good sides) Craven roycec(at)ozemail.com.au ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 1997
From: "Paul Osterman III" <PineRanch(at)msn.com>
Subject: BAC kits and buildtimes (chatter)
Jeffrey S. Davis wrote: Can someone explain the difference between the prepunched, quick build and the options available from BAC?* If you order a quick build do you need any of the services offered by BAC or is it only for the prepunced kits??* Jeff, the wing kits from Vans now come with the skins pre-punched and this is included in his price. The BAC fast build kit ($1495) computer punches or machines 170+ parts. They are cut to size, drilled and are ready to install. Most are gold anodized and identified by name of the part and part number. His kit also included several drawings that helped clarify some of Vans drawings. This kit, together with the phlogiston spar realy enable you to begin constructing/assembling the wing when you take delivery. The deluxe kit additionally drills out the main spar, rear spar, flap and aileron spars, wing tank structure...but you have to get the pholgiston spar for the deluxe option. Ask Vans for a flyer, or call BAC 916 631-3672. I'm not building a fast build kit from Vans, so I'll leave a description of that to others. Paul Osterman RV6A working on flaps Anderson, CA PineRanch(at)msn.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 1997
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: Bill's damaged RV6??
Just to get the facts straight, it was Ken's RV-6! Bill is the one putting an O-360 in his RV-4 that seems to be taking forever. Of course, if you spend your evenings enjoying the net, nothing will get done. It is warmer and drier sitting at a keyboard than working on an engine installation. PS: Ken and I (Bill) look a lot alike, but I'm the better looking one (questionable)! > Bill, that was an incredible story about your RV being run over > by the Chevy (per your story in the RVator). > I wonder what the odds are of that happening are (putting your plane > in a friends hangar the day a car's transmission pops into reverse > and heads across the airport for YOUR airplane)? > I am glad you had it insured an no one was hurt. > > Thanks for all the great articles in the RVator. I think you went > a little too far to get this story however :-). > Herman > >> Bill >> RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV >> flying hours. >> These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or >> position of my employer. >> >> > > > Bill RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV flying hours. These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 1997
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: Quickbuild facts.
>I am just completing my empennage (RV6 non-prepunched) and am getting serious >about ordering the rest of the kit. I am a little confused between the options >available. Can someone explain the difference between the prepunched, quick >build and the options available from BAC? > >* If you order a quick build do you need any of the services offered by BAC or > is it only for the prepunced kits?? > >* If I do go with a quick build (First Choice) what is the best way to have it >delivered (or should I pick it up)? (I live in Michigan) > > Thanks for your help. > > >-- >Jeffrey S. Davis - Phone (313)845-5224 >Senior Research Engineer >Advance Vehicle Technology >Ford Motor Company Jeff, This one sounds like a natural for me. The BAC kits would only be applicable if you were building from the standard kits. Those who have used them seem to compliment Steve (BAC) and his kits. I have inspected several projects where the BAC's have been used and they tend to establish a quality level that you strive for as you build. In this case, money is the only object. I'm sure others will comment about the kits. The quickbuild has no after market direct helpers. You need to remember that we are approaching the 49% point, and any large helpers may put you over the magical 49% point, at which point you may not get the repairmans certificate or if the FAA wants to be sticky, you may not get an airworthiness certificate. Your completed aircraft could be used for a windsock, but not much more! Fortunately, the FAA is willing to work with us rather than against us at this time. The real advantage of the quickbuild is that you start with something that resembles an aircraft. You can sit in it and make airplane noises. This is really good therapy and keeps you motivated. As far as coming out to pick it up --- a significant number of people have done just that. By the time you pay for the crating and transportation for the kit, you are looking at between $1500-2000. You could take that money, a little vacation time and use some airline miles for a free ride out, rent a truck and head for home. A 24' U-Haul or Budget works great. $39/day, but the mileage charges may eat you up. Still a pleasant trip unless you run into a snow storm. I think winter traveling is relaxing and enjoyable because of the limited number of people on the roads. We have several quickbuilds that could be available before you could get your airline travel arranged, but the finish kits are a 12-13 week wait. However, we can always send the available finish parts home with the quickbuild and UPS or truck the long lead items when your slot in the "Que" pops up. Bill. Bill RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV flying hours. These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 1997
From: "Donald Wasnesky" <Wirecruise(at)msn.com>
Subject: E-mail for RV aircraft
To whom it may concern, Please remove my E-mail address from your mailing list. The address is Wirecruise(at)MSN.com. Thanks, Don Wasnesky ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GHLX34A(at)prodigy.com (MR GEORGE T KILISHEK)
Date: Jan 06, 1997
Subject: rv8
Jeff: There are a number of -8 builders on the RV-list. They, and the other guys building -4s and -6s have been most helpful to those of us who are trying to do this thing right but don't know how. George Kilishek RV-8 SN 80006 Flaps, ailerons almost complete ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 1997
From: Tom Goeddel <tgoeddel(at)monmouth.com>
Subject: Re: Questions about top of F-606
Thanks to all who responded to my questions on the F-606 bulkhead. I did notice a disturbing trend in the responses, however: > If you think your spending hours puzzling over it now, just wait till >you start the canopy! Good luck. >Mark LaBoyteaux >No, you're in sketchy plans and manuals territory, particularly the >sliding canopy dwgs >Peter Bennett >That's because the instructions get skimpier as you go along. Just wait >till you start on the sliding canopy ;-) >Dave Barnhart I can hardly wait... Tom Goeddel RV-6oc (open cockpit...) tgoeddel(at)monmouth.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 07, 1997
Subject: engine overhaul experience, chapter two
Please see earlier post for introduction. Engine: Lycoming O-320-E2D 1994 hrs TTSN/ first run. Vintage 1974 Status at teardown: excessive wear in the top rings and ring grooves of all 4 cyls. this was beyond service limits. Oil pump A/D not complied with. (Powdered metal gear.) No fuel pump pad on accessory case. Operable mags removed when engine taken out of service and replaced with high-time Slick "throw-away" mags by shrewd mechanic who sold the others for a nice profit. "Why send good cores to Penn Yan?!" Starter in good shape- better keep it for ballast, might need some fwd weight. No vacuum pump present, none wanted. No alternator. Carb butterfly shaft has excessive play. NO INTERIOR RUST ANYWHERE, even after 5 months of substandard pickling in my garage. Engine core price..................................................................5,000 Starter core price.....................................................................150 ****************************************************************************** ** Accessory case exchange (to get fuel pump capability)...............100 Mag gear impulse exch.............................................................100 New Slick Magneto (exch 2 old cores)........................................340 Electro-Air ignition kit (replaces one mag)...................................790 Accessory gear/cam for fuel pump (exch.)....................................75 Fuel Pump.......................................................................... .....125 Fuel pump push pin ...................................................................65 Carburetor overhaul parts as req'd...............................................170 Aluminum oil pump gear & housing* (used)...................................60 Intake hoses (4)..........................................................................1 5 Oil drainback hose......................................................................10 Gasket & seal set (excludes rocker cover gaskets)......................100 Crankshaft magnaflux and polish (still in new specs)......................30 Rocker shafts, new (4).................................................................70 Pistons, new (4).........................................................................20 0 Rings (4 sets)......................................................................... ...175 Wrist pins w/ plugs.....................................................................100 Rod bearings (8)........................................................................... 45 main bearings (8)........................................................................125 Face exh. flanges, 4 cyls. ............................................................25 exhaust guides ..........................................................................100 grind & seat valves .......................................................................20 Exhaust valves, new (4)................................................................500 Paint engine and mount Lycoming grey enamel................................50 Inspection and dye check of case, cylinders, honing of cyl. barrels, magnaflux inspection of crankshaft gear, idler gears & shafts, cam- shaft; cadmium plating of all steel hardware, rocker covers, intake tubes** .............................................................................. ......315 Labor (excl. machinework subbed out as above).............................1400 Credit for vacuum drive parts.......................................................... (55) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------------- Total overhaul / ignition upgrade cost.............................................5050 plus core charges for engine and starter.....5150 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- $ 10,200 To be continued....... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 07, 1997
Subject: Engine overhaul, chapter 3
* converts oil pump to the pre-1970's design, before the FAA helped Lycoming make all the "improvements" that led to all the engine failures and all the A/D's. This is not an option if you wish to keep the engine in "certified" condition for resale (who'd want to sell an RV??) ** makes the steel parts sparkle like gold gilt. resists rust and looks neat. Hey, it was only $100 extra and I like it that way, okay? My experience with Bob Barrows and his little overhaul shop in the woods, R&B Aircraft Co. was 100% positive with lots of good fellowship, a very patient teacher, and a man who knows how to look out for his customer's interest. It will be a pleasure to have him over to supervise the final stages of construction as my EAA tech counselor and new friend. The process took about 6-7 months. It was an Inspect/repair/replace as necessary overhaul. All used parts were within service limits; most still within new limits. Next time around for this engine I'm sure the jugs will need repair/replacement rether than just inspection, etc. But I'll bet we make it to TBO again this run. Hope this helps those who are at this stage... Bill Boyd SportAV8R(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough)
Date: Jan 07, 1997
Subject: Re: Where's Bernie
rv-list(at)matronics.com,Internet writes: Does anyone know where Bernie Warnke is. I've called several times only to get his answering machine. -- Chet Razer crazer(at)egyptian.net Chet, I've left messages for 2 months and he hasn't returned mine either. Hope everything's ok! Ken j.ken_hitchmough(at)mail.magic.ca ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Lauritsen" <clevtool(at)tdsi.net>
Subject: Cleaveland's Web Page
Date: Jan 07, 1997
Hi everyone, Finally after working off and on for a year and a half we have our web page "done". It's nothing fancy but it does have part numbers, prices and descriptions... no pictures yet. The online order form does not yet work, and the domain name "cleavelandtool.com" is not hooked up thanks to my service provider, but you can take a look at this address "http://www.tdsi.net/~clevtool/. Please send me your comments and what else you would like to see. (please e-mail me directly not through the list @ clevtool(at)tdsi.net) Thanks, Mike Lauritsen Cleaveland Aircraft Tool 1804 First St. Boone, IA 50036 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Davis" <jdavis1(at)ford.com>
Date: Jan 07, 1997
Subject: Re: Quickbuild facts.
I would like to thank all that provided assistance regarding kit options. I am planning on ordering my Quick Build kit minus empennage (already complete) this week. >Jeff, This one sounds like a natural for me. The BAC kits would only be >applicable if you were building from the standard kits. Those who have used >them seem to compliment Steve (BAC) and his kits. I have inspected several >projects where the BAC's have been used and they tend to establish a quality >level that you strive for as you build. In this case, money is the only >object. I'm sure others will comment about the kits. >The quickbuild has no after market direct helpers. You need to remember >that we are approaching the 49% point, and any large helpers may put you >over the magical 49% point, at which point you may not get the repairmans >certificate or if the FAA wants to be sticky, you may not get an >airworthiness certificate. Your completed aircraft could be used for a >windsock, but not much more! Fortunately, the FAA is willing to work with >us rather than against us at this time. The real advantage of the >quickbuild is that you start with something that resembles an aircraft. You >can sit in it and make airplane noises. This is really good therapy and >keeps you motivated. As far as coming out to pick it up --- a significant >number of people have done just that. By the time you pay for the crating >and transportation for the kit, you are looking at between $1500-2000. You >could take that money, a little vacation time and use some airline miles >for a free ride out, rent a truck and head for home. A 24' U-Haul or >Budget works great. $39/day, but the mileage charges may eat you up. >Still a pleasant trip unless you run into a snow storm. I think winter >traveling is relaxing and enjoyable because of the limited number of people >on the roads. We have several quickbuilds that could be available before >you could get your airline travel arranged, but the finish kits are a 12-13 >week wait. However, we can always send the available finish parts home >with the quickbuild and UPS or truck the long lead items when your slot in >the "Que" pops up. Bill. >Bill >RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV >flying hours. >These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or >position of my employer. ---End of forwarded mail from rv-list(at)matronics.com -- Jeffrey S. Davis - Phone (313)845-5224 Senior Research Engineer Advance Vehicle Technology Ford Motor Company ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Bill's damaged RV6??
Date: Jan 07, 1997
I am sorry. Yes it is Ken. I did not have my newsletter here and somehow I associated you as the same person 'from Vans'. Herman > Just to get the facts straight, it was Ken's RV-6! Bill is the one putting > an O-360 in his RV-4 that seems to be taking forever. Of course, if you > spend your evenings enjoying the net, nothing will get done. It is warmer > and drier sitting at a keyboard than working on an engine installation. PS: > Ken and I (Bill) look a lot alike, but I'm the better looking one > (questionable)! > > > > Bill, that was an incredible story about your RV being run over > > by the Chevy (per your story in the RVator). > > I wonder what the odds are of that happening are (putting your plane > > in a friends hangar the day a car's transmission pops into reverse > > and heads across the airport for YOUR airplane)? > > I am glad you had it insured an no one was hurt. > > > > Thanks for all the great articles in the RVator. I think you went > > a little too far to get this story however :-). > > Herman > > > >> Bill > >> RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV > >> flying hours. > >> These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or > >> position of my employer. > >> > >> > > > > > > > > Bill > RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV > flying hours. > These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or > position of my employer. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Morristec(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 07, 1997
Subject: Re: Active Noise Cancelation in the cabin.
Bill, I have worked with Lord on certifying the ANC system for the cabins of turboprops, jets, and helicopters. The system is mostly effective in damping prop noise, and can be very effective in some circumstances, and not so good in others. But the real bottom line is the cost and weight. A typical turboprop system STARTS at about $50K and 70 lbs. I think the headsets are pretty cheap in comparison. Dan Morris RV6 Morristec(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 1997
From: "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Quickbuild facts.
>for a free ride out, rent a truck and head for home. A 24' U-Haul or >Budget works great. $39/day, but the mileage charges may eat you up. Hertz/Penske charged me $359 (weekly flat rate, *unlimited* mileage), providing a significant savings. Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q project: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker (last update 12/23/96 - Oshkosh '96 RV pictures) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Martinph(at)cyberbury.net
Date: Jan 07, 1997
Subject: rv8 george k
RV>George Kilishek RV>RV-8 SN 80006 RV>Flaps, ailerons almost complete george send me your e mail address so we dont fill up the list with chatter . thanks jeff rv8 martinphcyberbury.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 1997
From: "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: BAC kits and buildtimes (chatter)
> If you order a quick build do you >need any of the services offered by BAC or is it only for the prepunced >kits??* > > I'm not building a >fast build kit from Vans, so I'll leave a description of that to others. > With the quickbuild, you need *no* options as the airframe is about 90% complete upon delivery. The extra $3K premium over the complete BAC offering make it far more cost effective, IMHO. Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q project: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker (last update 12/23/96 - Oshkosh '96 RV pictures) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 1997
From: "Smith, Hal" <smith1h(at)macsmtpgw.spring-branch.isd.tenet.edu>
Subject: Best of the RV-ator supplement pages almost sold out
I would like to order the supplement set for $16 dollars. Do you have a mailing address. I do not like to use my mastercard through e-mail. Please answer by my e-mail address below. Thanks, Hal Smith smith1h@spring-branch.isd.tenet.edu _______________________________________________________________________________ TO THOSE WHO HAVE THE ORIGINAL 14 YEARS OF THE RV-ATOR BOOK: . The supplement sets are $16 and can be ordered by e-mail with a Mastercard or Visa. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 1997
From: John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com>
Subject: Direct Reply (Was Van's Isspro....)
>(If everyone would sign their posts as above, we would know who we are talking to and it would make it a lot easier to post a reply to the sender instead of the list) Hey Bob: The value of this list is that the responses are available to every one and we all l can benefit from the wisdom of the people that respond. There is a lot of flaming, little digs, philosophical meanderings and other BS that gets posted, but I sure don't want to be left out of technical interchange, especially your input. It is always worthwhile. I am not familiar with all the e-mail programs out there but Eudora provides enough information in the the header to permit a direct reply. A name is nice though. BTW: Thanks for the addresses. A couple of others that I like are: http://www.avweb.com http://www.landings.com/ BTW#2: Another nice thing about Eudora is that the http addresses are live and you can go directly to them from them by clicking on them. Here I go with a lot of philosophy and extraneous BS. Keep posting your good stuff for all of us to read. John Top Phone: (619) 549-3556 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 1997
From: Robert Fritz <75303.1623(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Quick Build vs. std kit + Phlogiston etc.
The subject has been batted about some, but I'm wondering if anyone has done a cost comparison between the RV-6(A) quick build and the RV-6(A) standard (Slow build?) kit with the various options from other shops. Something on the order of: QB SB supplier Vans $20,000 $10,000 supplier Phlogiston N/A $ ????? etc. total cost Phlog spar N/A -100 hours etc. total time to build I've seen some of this alluded to but not in one place. Also, I've heard several folks lament the introduction of the QB after they'd started on the (SB). Comments were always favorable re. time saved and quality of the workmanship regardless of the route chosen. Is anyone in disgreement with the postive statements on quality and value of either path? If you would care to send them directly to me I'll organize it and report the "survey". Bob Fritz 75303.1623(at)compuserve.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mikel(at)dimensional.com
Date: Jan 07, 1997
Subject: Re: Van's Isspro instruments of reasonable quality?
I used some Westach guages, and wouldn't do that again, either. >I think you get what you pay for... > I used the Rochester guages which work well and LOOK good (analog). A bit heavy, perhaps but good guages. Aircraft Spruce has 'em. Michael RV-4 232SQ mikel(at)dimensional.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mikel(at)dimensional.com
Date: Jan 07, 1997
Subject: Re: rocky mtn
>listers > >I'm interested in getting >the Rocky mtn monitor..... >The peolpe at rocky mtn, they seem to be straight up...... Craig: I have one of the RMI encoders which I am very happy with (as are a lot of other people: Vans [has one in the RV-8] and Burt Rutan [has one in the Bomerang]. I can't speak for their engine monitoring unit but I guess it to be of equal quality. The folks there are VERY happy to make you happy. Good products, good people. Michael RV-4 232SQ mikel(at)dimensional.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 1997
From: mauser(at)Claris.COM (Richard Chandler)
Subject: Re: Direct Reply (Was Van's Isspro....)
You know, another mailing list I'm on has a sort of auto-signature appended to every message that includes the sender's e-mail address. Perhaps that's an option in the software Matt uses? Personally, I composed a special .sig to use with the RV list, but sometimes I forget to switch. -- Richard Chandler RV-6: Garage bought and being finished, saving for tools and tail kit. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 1997
From: sarg314(at)azstarnet.com (Tom Sargent)
Subject: powersport rotary engines
FWIW I just received a mailing from Powersport saying that their engine is going into production and they are "accepting a limited number of deposits from experienced builders who have airframes which will enter service during early 1997". The deposit is refundable and is $7,500. Larry Graves of Montague Calif. is said to be installing the first production Powersport 200 in his award winning Glasair. They say they'll have engine mounts, jigs etc. for Glasair and RV builders. For those who are unfamiliar with Powersport, they are working on a 200HP rotary which sells for $14,900 including reduction gear, alternator, fuel injection, dual ignition and starter. (See Sport Aviation July 1996). It sounds really interesting. The rotary should vibrate very little, and it's liquid cooled too. 200HP isn't too shabby either. if you're interested, contact: Powersport, inc. 12294 hatch Lane Aumsville OR 97325 503-769-5469 --- Tom Sargent, Tucson, AZ, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pmbs(at)probe.att.com
Date: Jan 07, 1997
Subject: Re: Best of the RV-ator supplement pages almost sold out
Andy, how about a phone number so we can order without having to put out Charge Card info. in email?? thanks Paul Bilodeau pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com 908-957-6611 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jan 07, 1997
Subject: New List Message Header...
As you can see, I've added a new line to the top of each message posted to the RV-List. This line will give the email address (and possibly the name) of the person that posted the message. We'll try this for a while and see what people think. Just what the archive needs - more data, but it definately can be useful. If you have a strong dislike for the new text let me know and why. Matt Dralle RV-List Admin. -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ==> RV-List Message Posted by: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jan 07, 1997
Subject: New RV-List Text...
As you can see, I've added a new line to the top of each message posted to the RV-List. This line will give the email address (and possibly the name) of the person that posted the message. We'll try this for a while and see what people think. Just what the archive needs - more data, but it definately can be useful. If you have a strong dislike for the new text let me know and why. Matt Dralle RV-List Admin. -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jan 07, 1997
Subject: New RV-List Text...
==> RV-List Message Posted by: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) As you can see, I've added a new line to the top of each message posted to the RV-List. This line will give the email address (and possibly the name) of the person that posted the message. We'll try this for a while and see what people think. Just what the archive needs - more data, but it definately can be useful. If you have a strong dislike for the new text let me know and why. Matt Dralle RV-List Admin. -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ==> RV-List message posted by: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 1997
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Subject: test #2
This is a test. Matt ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 1997
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net>
Subject: Re: Direct Reply (Was Van's Isspro....)
>>(If everyone would sign their posts as above, we would know who we are >talking to and it would make it a lot easier to post a reply to the sender >instead of the list) > >Hey Bob: > >The value of this list is that the responses are available to every one and >we all l can benefit from the wisdom of the people that respond. There is a >lot of flaming, little digs, philosophical meanderings and other BS that >gets posted, but I sure don't want to be left out of technical interchange, >especially your input. It is always worthwhile. > >I am not familiar with all the e-mail programs out there but Eudora >provides enough information in the the header to permit a direct reply. A >name is nice though. > >BTW: Thanks for the addresses. A couple of others that I like are: > >http://www.avweb.com >http://www.landings.com/ > >BTW#2: Another nice thing about Eudora is that the http addresses are live >and you can go directly to them from them by clicking on them. > >Here I go with a lot of philosophy and extraneous BS. > >Keep posting your good stuff for all of us to read. > >John Top >Phone: (619) 549-3556 John, >The value of this list is that the responses are available to every one and we all l can benefit from the wisdom of the people that respond.> This has been my position on the RV-list all along. However, on occasion, there is no need to respond back to the list, such as this post, offering congratulations, etc. I try to not load Matts hard drive with "fluff". Most of the time, I post back to the list if there is the slightest possiblilty that the comments would be of interest to others. Not posting back to the Glastar list seems to be quite common and I have tried to encourage people to post back to the list. In fact, the other day, I think I posted and idea for a tail skid/tie down back to you instead of the Glastar list. I'm used to the RV-list where you just hit reply. I did the same on the Glastar list and sent my comment to you and it didn't make the list. I'm using Eudora. Your post came with the two items below: From: John Top <cts.com!jjtop(at)matronics.com> X-Sender: jjtop(at)mail.cts.com Most of the time, the posts I receive just have the: From: John Top <cts.com!jjtop(at)matronics.com> which means that I have to decipher and rearrange it to send a reply. It's very handy to copy and paste the E-mail address to the reply field. I spend enough time on the list (not getting Captain Bill's Glastar built) that I don't like to take time to decipher addresses. Also, it seems like there are a lot of posters on the RV-list that don't sign their names and it is nice to know who your talking to. As far as flames, I think the RV and Glastar list are very "flame free" compared to some of the forums on the net, especially rec.aviation.homebuilt. There are periods of wasted bandwidth on the RV-list and then it seems like we get a period of time when most all of the posts are interesting. We're about to finish up the elevator and I guess we'll install bulkheads in the fuse. next. Bill wants to get the plane up on the gear so he can easily move it in case I sell my house and have to move. John, thanks for the nice comments. See you on one list or another. Bob Skinner BSkinner(at)krvn.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 1997
From: Dean & Scott Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net>
Subject: flames & misc.BS
John Top wrote: > > The value of this list is that the responses are available to every one and > we all l can benefit from the wisdom of the people that respond. There is a > lot of flaming, little digs, philosophical meanderings and other BS that > gets posted, but I sure don't want to be left out of technical interchange IMHO the flaming, little digs, philosophical meanderings and other BS serve to make the list somewhat interesting when the technical interchange gets slow or too tedious... Matt may argue otherwise :) Scott N4ZW ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 1997
From: willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills)
Subject: Re: rocky mtn
>listers > >I'm interested in getting an engine monitor for my rv. If you havent seen it, RMI has info including manuals and magazine articles on the web(I just found it myself and I have been looking). Its at http://SportFlyer.com/ under the avionics section. Thanks for the heads up on this site Barry. There is so much good stuff here it should be part of the faq. Mike Wills RV-4 (wings) willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: engine overhaul experience, chapter two
Date: Jan 07, 1997
If I read your message correctly, it sounds like there was wear in the cylinders at the top (very common). Then you indicate that they just 'honed' the cylinders. Did you go to over size pistons or stay standard? I don't see how they could keep your cylinders standard if there was wear a the top and then they honed them. FYI, there should actually be .005 to .007 of 'choke' at the top of the cyl (i.e. smaller at the top) so that when the barrell heats up more at the top it forms a true cylinder. Did they maintain the choke in the cyl? Some of the older cyl. did not have any choke built into them. Herman > Please see earlier post for introduction. > > Engine: Lycoming O-320-E2D 1994 hrs TTSN/ first run. Vintage 1974 > Status at teardown: excessive wear in the top rings and ring grooves of all > 4 cyls. this was beyond service limits. Oil pump A/D not complied with. (stuff deleted) > .......................................................................20 > Exhaust valves, new > (4)................................................................500 > Paint engine and mount Lycoming grey enamel................................50 > Inspection and dye check of case, cylinders, honing of cyl. barrels, > magnaflux inspection of crankshaft gear, idler gears & shafts, cam- > shaft; cadmium plating of all steel hardware, rocker covers, intake > tubes** > .............................................................................. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GHLX34A(at)prodigy.com (MR GEORGE T KILISHEK)
Date: Jan 07, 1997
Subject: Jeff/rv8
george send me your e mail address so we dont fill up the list with chatter . thanks jeff rv8 martinphcyberbury.net Jeff: It's GHLX34A(at)Prodigy.com. My service won't take martinphcyberbury. net as an E-Mail address. George ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 1997
Subject: Re: Best of the RV-ator supplement pages almost sold out
From: ab6a(at)juno.com (ALLAN E POMEROY)
I also would like to order one set of the supplement pages. Will you email to me a regular mailing address and I will get a $16 check into the mail for it? I prefer not to use a credit card with email. Thanks. Allan Pomeroy CNY AB6A(at)juno.com Riveting HS skeleton >TO THOSE WHO HAVE THE ORIGINAL 14 YEARS OF THE RV-ATOR BOOK: > >As we advertised, the RV-Ator supplement pages to add the years 1994 - >'95 to >the older 14 year books would be available only through December. >However >there are still about 20 sets left. This is your last chance to get >the >supplement pages. Once they are gone, they are gone. The supplement >page sets >will not be reprinted. The supplement sets are $16 and can be ordered >by >e-mail with a Mastercard or Visa. > >This note does pertain to the current and complete 16 YEARS OF THE >RV-ATOR >book. The current 16 year book (1980-1995) will be available till >around >February 1998. > >Thanks >Andy Gold RV-6A - finishing cowling > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 08, 1997
Subject: Re: rocky mtn
I have the Rocky Mountain and really like it. Jim Cone jamescone(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Maynard, Bryon" <maynardb(at)snowmass.ksc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Quick Build vs. std kit + Phlogiston etc.
Date: Jan 08, 1997
Just my two cents worth. I have been recommending to people, who have asked and are trying to save some money, to get the standard kit but have the tanks and spar made by other means and build the rest yourself. I found the spar and tanks to be the long poles during the construction. With all the prepunched metal now days the time is considerably less. Happy building. >---------- >From: Robert Fritz[SMTP:CompuServe.COM!75303.1623(at)matronics.com] >Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 1997 3:15 PM >To: RV-List >Subject: RV-List: Quick Build vs. std kit + Phlogiston etc. > >The subject has been batted about some, but I'm wondering if anyone has done >a >cost comparison between the RV-6(A) quick build and the RV-6(A) standard >(Slow >build?) kit with the various options from other shops. > >Something on the order of: > > QB SB > >supplier Vans $20,000 $10,000 >supplier Phlogiston N/A >$ ????? >etc. >total cost > >Phlog spar N/A -100 >hours >etc. >total time to build > >I've seen some of this alluded to but not in one place. > >Also, I've heard several folks lament the introduction of the QB after they'd >started on the (SB). Comments were always favorable re. time saved and >quality >of the workmanship regardless of the route chosen. Is anyone in disgreement >with the postive statements on quality and value of either path? > >If you would care to send them directly to me I'll organize it and report the >"survey". > >Bob Fritz >75303.1623(at)compuserve.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: lhlucas(at)ibm.net
Date: Jan 08, 1997
Subject: priming
How did you QB guys handle the priming...Ex: do you finish all of the flooring pieces ; prime, and then install? John Lucas - ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RBusick505(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 08, 1997
Subject: Re: rocky mtn
Scott In an earlier post someone indicated that the cost between the RMI and the Vision System was basically the cost of the propes. How much did the propes cost you for the RMI system. Bob Busick RV-6 RBusick(at)aol.com << Craig, I have built the RMI micromonitor and will be installing it in my RV-6A within a week. I have nothing but praise for this kit and the company behind it. Their customer service is outstanding. The kit was easy to assemble and appears to work well. It took me a very enjoyably 20 hours to put together. If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't hesitate to build another. Actually I had so much fun with the micromonitor that I will probably put a microencoder in the plane in the future. Hope this helps. Scott Gesele N506RV (Hope to finish by May) scottg(at)villagenet.com - >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Active Noise Cancelation in the cabin.
Date: Jan 08, 1997
From: Bill Downey <billd(at)ibmoto.com>
> turboprop system STARTS at about $50K and 70 lbs. I think the headsets are Dan, Boy, that's higher than I would have guessed. I'm sure alot of the cost is due to certification, recovering design costs, making a profit and no competition. However the cost, of the electronics themselves, does not seem that it could be even close to this price. If someone was to develope their own system, I imagine the cost of electronics would be significantly less than $1000. Though it would take many, many hours of their time. What really surprised me is the weight. I realize the frequency of prop noise is realitively low. And low frequencies mean large woofers, which in turn means heavy magnet or lots of weight. However 70lbs. still seems awfully heavy. Do you have any idea what all this weight is used for? Possibly depleted uranium designer speaker boxes. Or maybe those Monster cables are heavier than I ever imagined. I was really thinking about this from the homebuilder aspect of developing our own system, rather than buying a commerially available one. I realize some knowledge of accoustics and electronics would help here. I still think this is managable project and could be quite fun and educational. After all isn't that what homebuilding is all about. Bill Downey billd(at)ibmoto.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVator(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 08, 1997
Subject: Re: U pik up kit = tax liability
I believe if you pick up your kit at Vans, you will have to pay the sales tax on kit at that time. If the kit is delivered to your home outside Oregon, you will pay the taxes when you liscense the finished project. Either way you pay, but for those trying to stretch out the total cost, this may be a consideration. IMHO RVator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 1997
From: "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: priming
At 12:40 PM 1/8/97 GMT, you wrote: > > How did you QB guys handle the priming...Ex: do you finish all of >the flooring pieces ; prime, and then install? > John Lucas - Here's a new twist to the primer thread(s)(s)(s)(s) . The assembled components in the QB kit are already primed. I've chosen to spray the remaining items with zinc chromate or marhyde out of a can, there's just not enough pieces at one time to justify setting up the gun (except for the mostly scratch-built rudder so far). Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q project: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker (last update 12/23/96 - Oshkosh '96 RV pictures) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 08, 1997
Subject: Re: engine overhaul experience, chapter two
<< If I read your message correctly, it sounds like there was wear in the cylinders at the top (very common). Then you indicate that they just 'honed' the cylinders. Did you go to over size pistons or stay standard? I don't see how they could keep your cylinders standard if there was wear a the top and then they honed them. FYI, there should actually be .005 to .007 of 'choke' at the top of the cyl (i.e. smaller at the top) so that when the barrell heats up more at the top it forms a true cylinder. Did they maintain the choke in the cyl? Some of the older cyl. did not have any choke built into them. >> As far as I know, Herman, the choke is present in cylinders of this vintage ( I did ask Bob Barrows specifically about this) and the honing done was just to produce the criss-cross pattern on the cylinder walls which is essential to proper seating of new rings. The amount of material removed is negligible and the choke is said not to be affected. My new pistons are standard size as the cylinder barrels miked to factory new dimensions. (Pampered engines are hard to beat. The mechanic always torqued the spark plugs, which I'm sure is why no cracks were found in the cyl heads.) So many people apparently think they can tell by feel when a plug is in tight enough, and they sometimes don't get away with it for 2000 hrs. Bill Boyd SportAV8R(at)aol.com <-- aol stands for Amiracle to get On Line or America Onhold, take your pick. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 1997
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net>
Subject: Activity
Have the number of posts on the list the last few days been rather light or is my server fouling up again? Things seem really slow. Maybe it's time to talk about PRIMER! Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jan 08, 1997
Subject: Re: Activity
>-------------- > Have the number of posts on the list the last few days been rather light >or is my server fouling up again? Things seem really slow. Maybe it's time >to talk about PRIMER! > >Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com >-------------- Yeah, traffic has been a little light the last couple of days. People must be building... Matt -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DkSJC(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 08, 1997
Subject: Gear Leg Fairings
The wide chord, reflexed trailing edge gear leg fairing used by, among others, Dave Anders on his 258MPH 360 powered RV-4 is now available from: Tracy Saylor P.O. Box 856 Santa Paula, CA 93060 (805)933-8225 Cost is $195.00 including tax / shipping and an installation guide. Per Tracy, the fairings are aircraft grade epoxy/fiberglass and should not have the typical shrinking problems that polyester resin products do. He currently does not provide intersection fairings, because the variation between aircraft make it impossible to get a fit he is comfortable with. According to several people who had the prototypes installed at Watsonville 96, these fairings a worth a couple of MPH, and the look great. I have ordered a set and will post a note when I get them installed. Dan Helm mt. View CA RV-4 3696 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 1997
From: Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com>
Subject: The use of Loctite
I am just doing a final assembly of the control rods, and it occured to me that I have never seen any mention of the use of Loctite. Is it recommended, or are there any problems with it ? I realise that it would not be the primary method of vibration-proofing a joint. John C-GDOC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 08, 1997
Subject: Re: Activity
The lack of activity is because we can't get on line with AOL. Jim Cone jamescone(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 1997
From: dougm@physio-control.com (Doug Medema)
Subject: Fuselage crate size
Could someone please post the size of the crate used for the fuselage kit. I get to pick mine up next week and I need to know if it will fit in the back of my Ranger pickup. P.S. I don't have access to the archive so I can't look there to see if it was previously posted. Thanks Doug Medema, RV-6A, wings done! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 1997
From: d shipman <innovate(at)dallas.net>
Subject: Re: Gear Leg Fairings
> >The wide chord, reflexed trailing edge gear leg fairing used by, among >others, Dave Anders on his 258MPH 360 powered RV-4 is now available from: > >Tracy Saylor >P.O. Box 856 >Santa Paula, CA 93060 >(805)933-8225 > >Cost is $195.00 including tax / shipping and an installation guide. > >Per Tracy, the fairings are aircraft grade epoxy/fiberglass and should not >have the typical shrinking problems that polyester resin products do. > >He currently does not provide intersection fairings, because the variation >between aircraft make it impossible to get a fit he is comfortable with. > >According to several people who had the prototypes installed at Watsonville >96, these fairings a worth a couple of MPH, and the look great. > >I have ordered a set and will post a note when I get them installed. > >Dan Helm >mt. View CA >RV-4 3696 > 258 mph? I think that is just a tad above Vne!!! David in Dallas innovate(at)dallas.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 1997
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: The use of Loctite (or anything new)
Hi all, Since it is quiet.... If Loctite came out with a new product that fastened more reliably than safety wire and was only released by touching with a special tool while uttering a password, it would not be acceptable to aviation community for at least twenty years. In high tech, they call this the "technology transfer problem". I used to have a list of the reasons people give for not moving to the new technology. The list had two columns. The left column had the reason for not and the right hand column had comments the consultant might make to help dispell the old belief. Sometimes, of course, there really are good reasons for not changing or not enough to offset the risk. Hal Kempthorne halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. (SJC) Debonair N6134V RV-6AQ on order! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 1997
From: "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: RMI Micromonitor vs. AV-10
>>the AFA is a pre-built 3 1/8" circular display of one parameter at >>a time, scrolled manually or automatically. >> >>The price is about half the RMIs. >> ^^^^ >>Ron Taborek RV-4 Installing O-320 Toronto ron.taborek(at)flight642.com For those looking at engine scanning systems (as I am), here's my cost rundown of the RMI Micromonitor vs. AFA AV-10, prices obtained from respective manufacturer information (USD). System capabilities include CHT's, EGT's, oil temp & pressure, fuel pressure, voltage, OAT, carb temp, MAP, fuel flow, etc. RMI AV-10 Base unit: 1299 1100 (4) CHT probes: 116 64 (4) EGT probes: 92 106 Multiplexer switch: 36 n/a Carb temp sensor: 115 23 Oil temp sensor: inc. 23 Oil pressure sensor: inc. 35 Fuel pressure sensor: inc. 60 Fuel flow sensor(s): 163 250 Manifold pressure: 46 80 OAT sensor: inc. 35 --- --- TOTALS: 1867 (ready built) 1776 -200 -100 (curr. discount) --- (build it --- 1667 yourself) 1676 (ready built) These units are *very* evenly priced (if I did my math right, but knowing my last stall speed calculations on the list...yikes). IMO, the AV-10 has the following advantages/disadvantages: Space saver. Scans all parameters including CHT's and EGT's. Voice alert (advantage or disadvantage ?), can be shut off. New product with unknown future support. Measures shock cooling. Measures % mag misfire. More bang per buck. RMI advantages/disadvantages: Stable company, known good product. Most parameters on-screen at once. Will *not* scan between cylinders, you must manually switch between them (I contacted the factory about this, they replied that sales are so good we don't have the time and don't see the need for this capability). Draw your own conclusions how I felt about this attitude. Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q project: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker (last update 12/23/96 - Oshkosh '96 RV pictures) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 1997
From: finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen)
Subject: Re: New RV-List Text...
You wrote: >As you can see, I've added a new line to the top of each message >posted to the RV-List I think it's a great idea. Now, how about this: Could you modify the program that adds postings to the archive in such a way that it doesn't add postings with for example "Chatter" in the subject line and/or maybe the first couple of lines in the body of the message. By proper use of this (or some other keyword) we could still post "chatter" to the list without it adding to the archive? finn finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 1997
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Fuselage crate size
> >Could someone please post the size of the crate >used for the fuselage kit. I get to pick mine >up next week and I need to know if it will fit >in the back of my Ranger pickup. RV-6 Fuselage: Tom @ Van's said: 1 crate: 97" x 37" x 16" weight 256 stones............ I mean pounds! Someone else: RV6- Fuse kit (.954cubic meters) 8'3/4"x38"x17" To forestall the inevitable questions: Wing Kit: 1 box 14' 4" x 10" x 8" 255lbs 1 box 96" x 31" x 10" 260lbs Empennage: kit box is about 8" x 36" x 60", 70 lbs. jig box at 4" x 15" x 20" at 30 lbs Finishing kit: Dunno... can someone give me this for completeness. Frank. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass; Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read". PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!" http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ | -------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 1997
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Activity
> > Have the number of posts on the list the last few days been rather light >or is my server fouling up again? Things seem really slow. Maybe it's time >to talk about PRIMER! > >Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com > Bob; It may be the cold weather has slowed up the flow of electrons in the wires!!! From what I see on the weather channel, you are almost as cold as we are. We're down to a numbing 32 degrees. I sure hope that I survive. John Darby RV6 N61764 flying Stephenville TX johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TESTPYLOT(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 08, 1997
Subject: INSTRUMENT PANEL ENGRAVING
DEAR RV BUILDER MY NAME IS WERNER BERRY OPERATOR OF WERNER BERRY AIRCRAFT COMPONENTS. WE SPECIALIZE IN AIRCRAFT ENGRAVING, INSTRUMENT PANELS, SUB PANELS, STAINLESS STEEL ID PLATES, PANEL OVERLAYS FOR SWITCHES AND BREAKERS, PLACARDS AND FUEL CAPS ARE AMONG SOME OF THE ITEMS WE ENGRAVE. THE MOST POPULAR TYPE OF PANEL MATERIAL WE WORK WITH IS A 1/16" INCH ACRYLIC PLASTIC WITH A SOLID COLOR BACK. THE SOLID COLOR BACK IS AVAILABLE IN MANY COLORS. THIS ALLOWS US TO REVERSE ENGRAVE THE PANEL AND FILL THE LETTERING WITH ANY COLOR INK YOU CHOOSE. IT MAKES FOR AN EXTREMELY ATTRACTIVE LOOK. YOU MAY HAVE SEEN A SAMPLE OF ONE OF THESE PANELS AT OSHKOSH, SUN AND FUN, OR COPPERSTATE. SEND US YOUR ALUMINUM PANELS WITH THE MARKINGS YOU WANT PENCILLES IN AND WE DO THE REST. A FEW OF THE THINGS TO THINK ABOUT HAVING ON YOUR PANEL, FOR EXAMPLE IS YOUR "N" NUMBER ALONG WITH THE PASSENGER WARNING, SPEED MARKINGS, AND MAYBE THE RORARY MAG-START SWITCH MARKINGS. I WOULD BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE. FEEL FREE TO DROP ME A LINE. I CAN BE REACHED AT PHONE (714)838-8946 FAX(714)838-0075--WERNER BERRY AIRCRAFT COMPONENTS H.I.S.CO. TUSTIN CA. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net>
Subject: Does anyone know this airplane?
Date: Jan 08, 1997
I am looking for a -4 preferably w/-360. Does anyone know a N4087Q based at Ramona CA? If so write me directly at Dougr(at)netins.net. Thanks in advance. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal Dougr(at)netins.net http://www.netconx.net/petroblend/dougr ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jan 08, 1997
Subject: Re: INSTRUMENT PANEL ENGRAVING
>-------------- > >DEAR RV BUILDER > >MY NAME IS WERNER BERRY OPERATOR OF WERNER BERRY AIRCRAFT COMPONENTS. WE >SPECIALIZE IN AIRCRAFT ENGRAVING, INSTRUMENT PANELS, SUB PANELS, STAINLESS >STEEL ID PLATES, PANEL OVERLAYS FOR SWITCHES AND BREAKERS, PLACARDS AND FUEL >CAPS ARE AMONG SOME OF THE ITEMS WE ENGRAVE. THE MOST POPULAR TYPE OF PANEL >MATERIAL WE WORK WITH IS A 1/16" INCH ACRYLIC PLASTIC WITH A SOLID COLOR >BACK. THE SOLID COLOR BACK IS AVAILABLE IN MANY COLORS. THIS ALLOWS US TO >REVERSE ENGRAVE THE PANEL AND FILL THE LETTERING WITH ANY COLOR INK YOU >CHOOSE. IT MAKES FOR AN EXTREMELY ATTRACTIVE LOOK. YOU MAY HAVE SEEN A >SAMPLE OF ONE OF THESE PANELS AT OSHKOSH, SUN AND FUN, OR COPPERSTATE. SEND >US YOUR ALUMINUM PANELS WITH THE MARKINGS YOU WANT PENCILLES IN AND WE DO THE >REST. A FEW OF THE THINGS TO THINK ABOUT HAVING ON YOUR PANEL, FOR EXAMPLE >IS YOUR "N" NUMBER ALONG WITH THE PASSENGER WARNING, SPEED MARKINGS, AND >MAYBE THE RORARY MAG-START SWITCH MARKINGS. I WOULD BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY >QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE. FEEL FREE TO DROP ME A LINE. I CAN BE REACHED AT >PHONE (714)838-8946 FAX(714)838-0075--WERNER BERRY AIRCRAFT COMPONENTS >H.I.S.CO. TUSTIN CA. >-------------- Hi, If you have web browser capability, please surf over to the Matronics pages and have a look at the FuelScan LT and DX units that we manufacture. Note that the lettering on the faceplates is currently silkscreened. The faceplates are made of 6061-T6 then anodized black. The lettering has been a problem as it has not been very durable. I was thinking just a few days ago how cool it would be to have the lettering engraved, the paint filled. I messed around a little bit on my CNC mill with this idea, but the lettering is very small and the tolerence of my mill didn't produce very good results. What are your thoughts on an engraving project like this? Impossible? The engravine tip would probably have to be 5 or 10 thousanths to make it look good. I'm not necessaryly locked into the fonts as done with the silkscreening. They might be hard to do with an engraver. The basic layout would have to be similar. The faceplates are 2.5" x 2.5". Have a look at the web pages (or I can email or FAX you some 2X or 3X drawings of the layout) and let me know what you think. I would probably do them in batches of 15-20. Thanks, Matt Dralle Matronics -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 1997
From: Brian McShurley <bmcshurley(at)www.sfgate.com>
Subject: Re: U pik up kit = tax liability
aol.com!RVator(at)matronics.com wrote: > > > I believe if you pick up your kit at Vans, you will have to pay the sales > tax on kit at that time. If the kit is delivered to your home outside > Oregon, you will pay the taxes when you liscense the finished project. > Either way you pay, but for those trying to stretch out the total cost, > this may be a consideration. > > IMHO > > RVator Last I checked..(today)...Oregon still has no sales tax. But nonetheless, If you are bringing it back to California (or most other states), you are required to pay the sales tax normally charged in your county within 10 days of the purchase, based on the value of the kit. Failure to do this will result in a heavy fine plus interest. Remember that when you go to register or sell the kit, the FAA sends a notice to the state involved saying....look who bought an airplane. You are then required to produce a bill of sale proving your assertions. I know.....The state of CA has $4400 of my money to cover the sales taxes on my kit. It was either pay as the law requires,or risk up to 5k more by waiting until I register it. Note, they cannot collect any personal property taxes on it until it has flown....AT LEAST TWICE....according to the CA tax code. In short....ESP in CA....be careful. They have a staff who are looking for people not paying, and they check dates very carefully. I did what was right. I can also sleep at night. No tax man coming to sieze my airplane...garage...tools...... Brian McShurley, bmcshurley(at)www.sfgate.com, Stewart S-51D, N514BM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 1997
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List:U pik up kit = NO tax liability in OR
> > > I believe if you pick up your kit at Vans, you will have to pay the sales >tax on kit at that time. Oregon is one of two states (or is it 5) not having a sales tax. So, come out and pick it up or have it delivered, same tax. However, most states want you to pay their coffers. NY has gotten nasty with some builders, claiming they owe the sales tax to NY at the time of the purchase and have been trying to get penalties for not paying at time of purchase. Usually the state tax collector will be in contact with you shortly after you apply for an N number. They don't miss a thing. It would be best to call the tax dept with a hypothetical question about building an airplane with old scrap metal you have laying around and see what they say! Don't panic, it is not that big of a problem. The only state I know of where I remember of people complaining has been the Big Apple, and there are a lot of RV's in NY, so it must not be that bad! Bill > > > > > > > > > RVator > > Bill RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV flying hours. These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 1997
From: fitton <fitton(at)vegas.infi.net>
Subject: Dave Anders
Does anyone know how I can contact Dave Anders? I have an IO360-A1A to put in my RV-4. I'm currently skinning the fuselage and would like to talk to him and perhaps visit Visalia prior to ordering the finish kit from Van. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks Bob Fitton fitton(at)vegas.infi.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 1997
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: Fuselage crate size
>Could someone please post the size of the crate >used for the fuselage kit. I get to pick mine >up next week and I need to know if it will fit >in the back.... Doug, should fit okay. I don't have the exact size, but about 30" wide, 8' long and maybe 10" tall. Two people can move it. I think it is about 200 lbs. Bill Bill RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV flying hours. These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 1997
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: The use of Loctite
Being a novice at this, I may be starting a thread we do not want to hear, but: Using Loctite on Rodend bearings ++++++++++ Good ++++++++++ Holds the bearing well, and will allow adjustment at a later date without a magic wand. ---------- Bad ---------- If the Loctite gets on the ball, the bearing could freeze-up, with the resulting motion causing the bolt and nut to turn, causing the nut to come off, causing the bolt to fall out, causing loss of control. Not even remotely likely, but possible! Anyone want to add to the sections above? Bill RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV flying hours. These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash)
Subject: Re: Kit sale liability
Date: Jan 09, 1997
>>I am considering getting a kit down the road, but I have a disturbing >>question. Knowing how sue happy people are in the US, what liability >>would I have if I build a kit, fly it for a few years, then sell it. >>After I sell it something important happens, maybe a wing falls off, and >>some is hurt or killed. Can they come after me since I built the plane? >>Bill I'm no attorney and this definately isn't legal advice, but: This is why many owners of a homebuilt will part out the aircraft, even though it's flying. This is to be able to sell it as "parts", which greatly limits ones liability. Note I said "limits", not eliminates It is best to sell the parts to several different people, to complete the plan of selling parts. No reason the person who wants to fly the plane couldnt buy the parts from the new parts-owners, nor is there any reason that the parts be disassembled/removed from each other when sold and resold. The important issue here is that one is selling "parts" and the sales invoice specify the condition of the parts, such as "unairworthy", "unservicable" etc. This puts the responsibility for their condition squarely back on the new owner of the plane. The big problem is usually not the buyer, but his/her family, should something happen. They will have no compunction about getting an attorney to "make things right", at your expense, of course. (And the attorney will get half or more). I've thot of one way to reduce the possibility of having to pay damages to some-one who perceives he's been damaged: put the stripped airframe in the name of a corporation. The N number is the corporate name. It is a legal entity. It even has it's own bank account. Delaware corporations are cheap. When you sell, you sell the corp. with it's only asset as the airframe. I'd think about maybe keeping one share of the stock so as to be a shareholder in the corp. along with other of the buyers family members Might be harder to sue you, but might open you to other liabilities.... I have to say this to avoid my own legal problems: contact a competant attorney to find out what he believes will keep you out of trouble. Hope this helps. Bill Nash AIRCRAFT REMANUFACTURING 1291 E.Vista Way, #150 VISTA, CA. 92084 (619) 749 0239 FAX: 749 6384 Sales Directory: Infobot(at)pdsig.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 1997
From: Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us>
Subject: Re: priming
Yes I primed the floor panels before installing on the Q-build. Ron Vandervort,RV-6Q,rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us On Wed, 8 Jan 1997 ibm.net!lhlucas(at)matronics.com wrote: > > How did you QB guys handle the priming...Ex: do you finish all of > the flooring pieces ; prime, and then install? > John Lucas - > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ve7fp(at)jetstream.net (Ken Hoshowski)
Subject: Suggestions
Date: Jan 08, 1997
There have been a few complaints lately about the lack of posts on the rv-list.I hope the following items may be of interest. My RV6 first flight was in Sept. 93 so I have accumulated a few hours and experiences. These two items relate to my personal experience and may give you something to think about. 1 .Any of you who fly in the winter in around or below freezing temperatures will note that a fair bit of air enters around the leading edge wing roots and enters the fuselage though the aileron pushrod holes on the sides of the fuselage. This cold air comes up around the control stick boot and the seat pans. Unless you are wearing long johns and gloves it can be a bit uncomfortable. Installing a light nylon type material, similar to the control stick boot and attaching to the pushrod and the big end velcroed around the pushrod entry hole on the fuselage side will eliminate this draft. Special care should be taken that any clamps or attachments onto the pushrod will not catch or snag on a rib. If you do any cold weather flying, this will make it more enjoyable. 2. There has been discussion on the center vertical console or the horizontal for throttle, mixture, pitch,trim etc.( RV6/6A ) I used electric elevator trim so did not need a spot for that big vernier. The vertical console is not a structural member. I choose to go with the horizontal installation because I thought it looked neater. The biggest advantage of the horizontal installation does not become evident until you have had to remove/install your battery a few times. The vertical console does make it more awkward to get those bolts into the battery terminal. At 6 feet and 210 lbs, after removing the seat to get my legs into the baggage compartment and getting the control stick to one side trying to hold the ratchet in one hand and a wrench in the other to do up the battery terminals can be frustrating. Bifocals probably don't help either. Trying to work around a center console would only be worse. Possible solutions 1. Loose weight so I would fit better 2. Talk nice to my wife, and maybe she would do it.


December 28, 1996 - January 08, 1997

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