RV-Archive.digest.vol-ch
December 28, 1996 - January 08, 1997
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: RV-4 C.G. & empty weight comparison |
My RV-4 came out heavy due to extra paint and equyipment as well as the fact
that this was my first RV. I would like to compare my RV-4 to other RV-4's.
I'm especially interested in empty C.G. location. Mine is 60.33" and 998lbs.
Any responses will be appreciated.
Chris May
RV-4 N595CM (100 hrs.)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV-4 C.G. & empty weight comparison |
> My RV-4 came out heavy due to extra paint and equyipment as well as the fact
>that this was my first RV. I would like to compare my RV-4 to other RV-4's.
>I'm especially interested in empty C.G. location. Mine is 60.33" and 998lbs.
>Any responses will be appreciated.
> Chris May
> RV-4 N595CM (100 hrs.)
Chris, My RV-4 (N894RV) O-320 with wood prop, weighed 952 and the CG was
8.7 aft of the leading edge (58.7). Van's now uses 60" as a reference, so
beware of the number, unless the reference is defined. I'm just installing
an O-360 with a wood prop so we will see how it changes. Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bseckstein(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Long range fuel tanks |
<< I don't know about the rest of you, but my blader is screeming long
before the fuel tanks are dry. So why the need for excess fuel?
>>
Often I fly into small airports that don't have fuel. I take people for
rides, and I go home. I have always found a tree to duck behind, but finding
fuel is harder.
Brian Eckstein
6A wing spars
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dana Breda <rv6av8r(at)ols.net> |
Subject: | Rv-6 Brake pads & pant/tire clearance |
I should have advised the list: The Condors are indeed a bit taller. I had
set my pants too close to the tires to begin with, and had a little rubbing
with the original McCreary's. When I put on the Condor's, I had to redo the
pants (I raised 'em up 3/8" above the Condor's altogether). If I was
building again, I'd allow 1/2" or so above the tires Van sent for clearance.
I'd trade what little drag it might cost to be sure I could use any tire I
wanted without having to rebuild the &^%#$ things. Before you fly, you
don't think about this sort of thing...
Dana Breda
N138DB in NC
>Dana!
>Your comments on the Condor (Michlin) tires confirms what I have discovered.
>Got about 200 hours out of the original tires from Van's (McCreary). Now have
>400 hours on the Condors and it is almost time to change them. Double the
>time is worth the few bucks more the Condor's cost. Van was shipping the
>Condors,for a period of time I believe, a while back but they are apparently
>a little taller than some of the other tires and causing some rubbing
>problems where tire clearance was not set just right for the fairings. A
>friend of mine also uses the Condors and has had execellent service from them
>too. Of course, landing surface, landings per hour, gear alignment, and pilot
>skill are the major varables affecting tire wear so comparisons's have to be
>made by the individual based upon his own experience.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
Subject: | Re: RV-4 C.G. & empty weight comparison |
>> My RV-4 came out heavy due to extra paint and equyipment as well as the fact
>>that this was my first RV. I would like to compare my RV-4 to other RV-4's.
>>I'm especially interested in empty C.G. location. Mine is 60.33" and 998lbs.
>>Any responses will be appreciated.
>> Chris May
>> RV-4 N595CM (100 hrs.)
>
>Chris, My RV-4 (N894RV) O-320 with wood prop, weighed 952 and the CG was
>8.7 aft of the leading edge (58.7). Van's now uses 60" as a reference, so
>beware of the number, unless the reference is defined. I'm just installing
>an O-360 with a wood prop so we will see how it changes. Bill
>Bill
>RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
>flying hours.
>These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
>position of my employer.
>
Chris:
My 4 (O-360, C/S, IFR) was 985. CG was 9.48 aft of leading edge or 69.48
using 60" datum.
I installed the battery in the back to offset the heavier engine/prop
combination.
I found that moving the battery back added about 10 lbs to the tailwheel
weight. Some guys have found the 360 C/S installations nose heavy, I'm
pleased with the feel at the current CG.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying 220 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | d shipman <innovate(at)dallas.net> |
Hello everyone:
Are there any RV-3's in the Dallas area?
I am 6'2" and 205lbs of pure beef cheeseburgers and wondering if I can
fit into a -3.
Please reply directly by e-mail to:
David Shipman
innovate(at)dallas.net
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "James & Connie Bryan" <jbr658(at)airmail.net> |
It'll be a tight squeeze Bubba. But if you still want to try it on, check
out Aero Country A/P in Frisco
----------
> From: d shipman <dallas.net!innovate(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: dallas rv-3
> Date: Saturday, December 28, 1996 6:47 PM
>
> Hello everyone:
>
> Are there any RV-3's in the Dallas area?
>
> I am 6'2" and 205lbs of pure beef cheeseburgers and wondering if I can
> fit into a -3.
>
> Please reply directly by e-mail to:
>
> David Shipman
> innovate(at)dallas.net
>
> Thanks
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: ElectroAir Electronic Ignition |
<< My interest is in the Klaus Savier and Electroair systems and I'm leaning
towards the Electroair as it seems to be a more straight forward
installation. What
are your thoughts?
Best Regards,
Wrgway
>>
Klaus Savier has just finished a redesign of his EI system. Klaus' new EI
trigger unit installs where the mag was removed. And it has a built in
timing capability.
You might give him a call at (805) 933-3299, and talk to him about it.
(You might mention that you heard about it on the rv-list.)
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
<< I am 6'2" and 205lbs of pure beef cheeseburgers and wondering if I can
fit into a -3.
Please reply directly by e-mail to:
David Shipman
innovate(at)dallas.net
>>
Hello David,
Van designed the RV-3 for pilots up to 6' 4". I'm only 5' 10", but I have
about 4" of cushion under me in the RV-3.
I have found that I lose about 1 mph for every 15 pounds of additional weight
in the RV-3. 205 pounds should be fine, from a weight and balance
standpoint. (205 sounds light to me, but I believe I exceed the bubba
scale.)
When I initially installed the LOM engine, the minimum pilot weight was 193
pounds before I moved the battery box.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | 5th pt seat belt hook up (Email address corrected) |
My E'mail address was wrong in the first post, sorry. Shucks now I'll
become the target of the archive huggers, spell checkers and the grammer
police of the RV list....... anyways, re-issued it is:
<<<<<<>>>>>>>>
Noticed my first issue to the list was lost....
and so was most of my verbage. For the archives we...
Held a mini forum off RV list, @ Thanksgiving time.
Group:
McManD(at)aol.com (David McManmon, of Cicero NY.)
(e'mail address corrected 12/29/96)
75472.372(at)CompuServe.COM (Stan Blanton, of Lubbock, TX.)
tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com (Mark LaBoyteaux, of Tulsa, OK.)
kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com (Kevin Lane, of Portland OR.)
If you'd like drawings:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------
E'mail me at (this part only)
McManD(at)aol.com ( 'mail address corrected 12/29/96)
ask for reply with Fax file drawing attached, labeled as: 5thptR3.awd
to your E'mail address.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------
Basically I made a "U" bracket at @ 15" forward of the rear wing spar
bulkhead. Rivet it to the floor and to F617 and F618 floor ribs (preferably
to the ribs prior to fusalabe skeleton final assemble and well befopre
skinning!)
Page 1
Review Fax drawing attached, labeled as: SB5ptR1
D. McManmon's RV6 fininshed design to retro-fit into a skinned, flipped over
ready for floor skin installation, 5th point seat belt. Made mostly with
heavier bolts, .125" thick angles, and .063" sheet and doublers. Might be
heavier and over engineered, probably easier to make and retro fit into a
skinned fuselage project, due to fitting 3/4" side angles to flush side
walls of F617-F618 webs?
Page 2
Review Fax drawing attached, labeled as: SB5ptR1
S. Blanton's design concept, clean sheet approach (modified slightly?) make
out of .063" sheet, ie: if Van's were to supply it?. The pull out force is
probably more than adequately designed. I could and would have easily fit
this in, while in the seat floor cleco'd into place fuselage construction
stage. Fit into to side walls/webs first, letting this new bracket extend
extra past the later to be installed outer floor skin. When Cleco'd into
place draw a straight line from side (F617) to side (F618) where outer
bottom skin will go and you have your bend line. Presto a custom fit
bracket. Rivet the whole "H" think prior to fitting the F617 and F618 ribs
in the fuselage sketeton for the last time prior to riveting!!!
Notable other considerations:
Found engineering data said that @ 10% of a harness/belts installation is to
the crotch strap.
I have had to make a plastic grommet that surrounds the strap's web from
touching sheet metal floor and cutting it. Location is just off seat's
centerline, and just below the overlapping joint of the Control stick floor
cover (removable ones) to the riveted in floor skins. I cut a oval slot in
the floor board skin and riveted on the plastic grommet.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
Since its winter here in Minnesota and my project is in the
garage(unheated), I must switch to inside projects. I am looking at
building an intercom or audio panel for my future RV6A from RST
Engineering and am looking for comments/opinions from people who have
built either of these kits.
Primarily:
A) Choice of kit (is the audio panel overkill)
B) Quality of kit
C) Dealing with RST
D) Effect of resale value with this type of product.
E) Any other tips/comments
Thanks to all and Happy New Year!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
I am looking for advice on how to mount the position lights on the
wingtips for a 6A. Any photos, drawings, etc.
Thanks
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Larry Hoatson <lhoatson(at)e2.empirenet.com> |
Subject: | Re: RST products |
I have built several kits from RST over the past 10 or so years. Most
recently the audio panel and remote marker beacon kits. RST went
through some tough times 1-2 years ago, they were hard to reach,
although they made an attempt to keep a service tech available. Things
seem much better now. I had them test and calibrate my units after
completion. Unfortunately, I have don't have them installed, so I can't
comment on the functioning of the units. But my 10+ year portable
intercom now resides on our touring bike, and is functioning as well now
as the day I built it!
HOpe this helps
Larry
--
Larry D. Hoatson lhoatson(at)empirenet.com Yucaipa, CA (L12)
Restoring 1950 Cessna 170A N9948A
Looking forward to RV6Q
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
Subject: | Re: RST products |
>Since its winter here in Minnesota and my project is in the
>garage(unheated), I must switch to inside projects. I am looking at
>building an intercom or audio panel for my future RV6A from RST
>Engineering and am looking for comments/opinions from people who have
>built either of these kits.
>
>Primarily:
>
>A) Choice of kit (is the audio panel overkill)
Check out the functions to see if you think it is too much ..:^)
I personally like the idea of an audio panel with a built-in intercom, and
the RST prices are _much_ better than the big guys. Being an electrical
engineer, I can see the difficulty in design and fab. of VHF equipment, but
cannot see why Terra (just as an example) charges 80% of of Comm radio price
for simple Audio Freq circuitry.
This is the unit I'm going to use.
>
>B) Quality of kit
I have built 2 of their 2 channel (later upgraded to 6 channel) VHF comm
radios. The kits were easy to build, well documented, and worked well.
One is still in use 20 years later (and still legal under the 1997 rules) in
my homebuilt Duster sailplane. When I upgraded to a 720 channel German
Dittel radio ($900 in 1980), other ground crews said my RST radio sounded
better. In AZ, the two RST radios could communicate (one ground, one in
glider at 10,000 ft.) from Pheonix to Tucson ... not bad for 1 watt output!
The only thing I missed was the extra channels to get high flying IFR
aircraft after a land out and a night spent in the desert ... that was the
only reason for upgrading.
>
>C) Dealing with RST
Very easy and good. Their repair rates are excellent if needed, making a
regular tune-up of the Comm radios cost-effective. The $30 tune-up (about
10 years ago) also included a free warranty replacement of a failed IF
transformer - even though the official warranty had expired.
Jim Wier, the owner, posts regularly to rec.aviation.hombuilt, and answers
his e-mail.
>
>D) Effect of resale value with this type of product.
I sold one of the Comm radios after 15 years for more than I paid for the
kit. Just build it carefully and neatly.
>
>E) Any other tips/comments
Check out their web page. Solder carefully and follow the instructions.
>
>Thanks to all and Happy New Year!!!
>
>
... hope this helps .... Gil (just a long time happy RST customer)
Alexander
RV6A, #20701, .... final canopy stuff
NOTE: when I last checked (about 3 weeks ago), the newly redesigned Audio
Panel with Intercom kit was not quite ready for sale. I managed to speak to
the engineer designing it, and hopefully got the final design to be just
less than 6 inches deep for those of us building tip-up RV-6s and not
wishing to hack too much out of the F668 bulkhead.
gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: RST products |
Asking about RST products, you wrote:
<< A) Choice of kit (is the audio panel overkill)
### I put the audio panel/intercom box in my panel. Building it was fun. I
still haven't aligned it. Will probably let the factory do that for me. It
is overkill unless you will have lots of radios. Many switches that you will
never use. My panel has a single Nav/Comm plus a ham transceiver, so I had
to have some kind of audio switching capability, but the ADF and similar
switch positions will forever be dummies in my panel.
B) Quality of kit ###Very good, IMO.
C) Dealing with RST ### No problem. He did give me the unusual but emphatic
advice of not isolating the phone and mic jacks from panel ground in any
way. Only time will tell how this is going to work.
D) Effect of resale value with this type of product. ### Unknown. He claims
to have more units flying than any other avionics mfgr, and they are legal in
certified spam cans. Definitely cheaper at the outset.
E) Any other tips/comments ### I'd feel much better about this decision if
RST offered a stereo intercom and a clearance recorder feature, two things I
think I will miss. But the engineer says he is an analog man with an allergy
to anything digital, and I believe it.
>>
Hope this helps. If I had it to do over again, I'd do the same thing because
money IS an object, but you can sure get some nicer toys for audio if you've
got the bucks and can justify spending 'em.
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R @ Aol
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
Subject: | Re: RV building schedule |
>>Rick McBride posted a time table of the times it took him for each
>>component of the airplane.
>I can't find it. Can someone point me to it?
FWIW, my builder's log can be had via my WWW page. That'll give you an idea
of how long it takes a inexperienced builder to do the HS & VS (control
surfaces to come).
Frank.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
Subject: | Re: Long range fuel tanks |
>Has anyone out there ever considered extending the fuel bays by one (or two)
>more leading edge ribs?
Yes. I'm also thinking about an external 'hard point' under the fuselage, to
which I could attach a fuel tank or a luggage pod (to carry skis). You might
also want to check out the Harmon Rocket guys; I was told they use extra
tankage.
> Is there some reason why I wouldn't want to do this?
Added weight; weight further out on the wings affecting roll rate. Van's
won't support you in this (I asked); the engineering calculations haven't
been done for the extra stresses.
There's also a small problem that, because of the dihedral of the wings, the
outer tanks are higher than the inner tanks and therefore might force fuel
out of an improperly sealed inner tank fuelcap.
> I realize that the spar web doubler and fuel tank skin would need to be
>replaced.
Mlfred(at)aol.com (Mark Fredricks) said to me via email:
>>If you want to put them on your bird, you'll need to extend the fuel tank
>>attach flange, get a longer tank skin, and more tank ribs.
>>
>>A second tank might be better/easier.
>>
>>I met a fella selling what looked like drop tanks at OSH last year. They
mounted
>>just outboard of the wing tanks. The installation looked very simple. I
don't have
>>his name.
>>I saw Claudoi Toninni's bird @ OSH last year, and the entire LE was fuel
>>tank, two per side. I don't know the total load, but I bet it was 75 gal or
>>so. I don't know where you might put more, altho I've heard of tip tanks.
>>Van's might be able to tell you about these.
HTH, and please keep me informed of anything else you find out.
Frank.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ronald Butcher <rbutch(at)inreach.com> |
Subject: | Re: RST products |
aol.com!SportAV8R(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Asking about RST products, you wrote:
>
> << A) Choice of kit (is the audio panel overkill)
> ### I put the audio panel/intercom box in my panel. Building it was fun. I
> still haven't aligned it. Will probably let the factory do that for me. It
> is overkill unless you will have lots of radios. Many switches that you will
> never use. My panel has a single Nav/Comm plus a ham transceiver, so I had
> to have some kind of audio switching capability, but the ADF and similar
> switch positions will forever be dummies in my panel.
>
> B) Quality of kit ###Very good, IMO.
>
>
> C) Dealing with RST ### No problem. He did give me the unusual but emphatic
> advice of not isolating the phone and mic jacks from panel ground in any
> way. Only time will tell how this is going to work.
>
> D) Effect of resale value with this type of product. ### Unknown. He claims
> to have more units flying than any other avionics mfgr, and they are legal in
> certified spam cans. Definitely cheaper at the outset.
>
> E) Any other tips/comments ### I'd feel much better about this decision if
> RST offered a stereo intercom and a clearance recorder feature, two things I
> think I will miss. But the engineer says he is an analog man with an allergy
> to anything digital, and I believe it.
> >>
> Hope this helps. If I had it to do over again, I'd do the same thing because
> money IS an object, but you can sure get some nicer toys for audio if you've
> got the bucks and can justify spending 'em.
>
> Bill Boyd
> SportAV8R @ AolBill... You mention that you are using the audio panel for a ham
rig.
Just a question, what are you using for an antenna. I have mounted 2
mtr and 440 mhz whips on inspection plates in the past. That way they
could be replaced easily. I'm looking to do something more "permenant"
in the future. Any ideas???
Ron Butcher - AA6D
Turlock, California
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
I followed Frank Justices suggestion when building my brake pedals and
lowered the side piece which attaches to the brake cylinder by 1/2 inch in
order to slant the top of the brake pedal forward to avoid accidental
braking on take off and landings. I am only installing brakes on the pilot
side. The left brake pedal ended up slanting back about 1", just as Frake
said it would. The right pedal, however, only slants back about 1/4". I am
now going to have to rebuild one or both so that they are evenly slanted
back. (I don't HAVE to but it seems to me that it would be odd to have the
brake pedals at different angles)
My suggestion to those who haven't built the pedals yet.....Don't rivet on
the inside pieces which attach to the brake cylinder, just clamp them in
place. Install into the rudder pedals with the brake cylinders and postion
the pieces up or down to get the slant you want and to get them even on
both sides.
Ross Mickey
6A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert P. Ollerton" <lizard(at)primenet.com> |
Subject: | Re: Painting Steel |
The correct process for metal-prep on steel is to NOT wash it off, but to wipe
it
dry with clean lint free cloths. Avoid paper towels, they will shred. If you
must
wash steel parts, use hot water, it will flash off faster and the part will dry
before
much rust sets in.
If the metal prep leaves a white milky film, you left too much on the part. Re-wet
it
with fresh metal prep and wipe it dry. If the cloth is not clean after wiping,
reapply
another treatment. The finished steel should be dark grey.
Bob Ollerton;The only lizard(at)primenet.com
Roswell, GA., / Patagonia, Arizona
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Frank Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com> |
Subject: | Re: Brake Pedals |
ix.netcom.com!rmickey(at)matronics.com wrote:
>The right pedal, however, only slants back about 1/4". I am
> now going to have to rebuild one or both so that they are evenly slanted
> back. (I don't HAVE to but it seems to me that it would be odd to have the
> brake pedals at different angles)
>
> Ross Mickey
> 6A
Ross, don't forget that the pivots of the left and right rudders are not
inline so when you line up the bottom of the pedals they are at
different angles. On my airplane the different angles of the brake
pedles on the rudders resulted in them having the same relative angle to
the aircraft. I followed Frank Justices plans too and it all worked out
(provided you put the correct set of pedals in the forward and aft
locations).
Frank Smidler
smidler(at)dcwi.com
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Long range fuel tanks |
>>Has anyone out there ever considered extending the fuel bays by one (or two)
>>more leading edge ribs?
>
I am in the last part of the wings on my -6A and had considered
using some thin wall pipe, 6" or so in diameter and slide it into
the lighting holes, have it share a vent, and plumb it to the
wing root. This would add maybe at 3 or 4 gallons a side,
with no real construction changes.
Greg Ratcliff
Gregory W. Ratcliff
nz8r+@osu.edu
Columbus, Ohio ICBM
In the Air N1697X
On the Air NZ8R
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Expansion Reamer |
Van's instructions for mounting the wings mention the use of an expansion
reamer to enlarge the close tolerance bolt holes. The only source I've been
able to find was one mentioned in the archives (Thanks to Gene Gottschalk):
Thompson and Cooke
4200 Kennelworth Ave.
Bladensburg, MD 20710
(800) 666-8005
(301) 864-6380
FAX: (301) 864-8749
Part Description & current prices:
========================================
L-649 Quick-Set Adjustable Reamer
LTR-8/A 1/4" TO 9/32" $ 51.88
LTR-4/A 3/8" to ?? $ 57.90
I need a 1/4" reamer for the control stick bushing, and I'd rather buy an
adjustable one now if I'm likely to need it in the future anyway for the
close tolerance holes. Any comments on how well the adjustable reamers work,
and/or how likely it is that I'll need one to fit my NAS bolts?
Thanks,
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ
Installing control stick this week
TimRV6A(at)aol.com, Capntim(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen) |
Subject: | Aluminum bonding agent |
Can anyone recommend an aluminum to aluminum bonding agent (adhesive,
glue...). It should be heat resistant up to maybe 200 F. I'm
manufacturing my rotary engine mounting plate, reinforced with T6
angles along the sides. In addition to riveting/bolting, I'd like the
added strength of also bonding the angles to the plate.
Finn
finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
>Van's instructions for mounting the wings mention the use of an expansion
>reamer to enlarge the close tolerance bolt holes. The only source I've been
>able to find was one mentioned in the archives (Thanks to Gene Gottschalk):
>
> Thompson and Cooke
> 4200 Kennelworth Ave.
> Bladensburg, MD 20710
> (800) 666-8005
> (301) 864-6380
> FAX: (301) 864-8749
>
> Part Description & current prices:
> ========================================
> L-649 Quick-Set Adjustable Reamer
> LTR-8/A 1/4" TO 9/32" $ 51.88
> LTR-4/A 3/8" to ?? $ 57.90
>
>I need a 1/4" reamer for the control stick bushing, and I'd rather buy an
>adjustable one now if I'm likely to need it in the future anyway for the
>close tolerance holes. Any comments on how well the adjustable reamers work,
>and/or how likely it is that I'll need one to fit my NAS bolts?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Tim Lewis
>RV-6AQ
>Installing control stick this week
>TimRV6A(at)aol.com, Capntim(at)aol.com
>
Tim, I do not have a suggestion about the reamer, but I do have something
pertinent! The control stick pivots on the bushing. Tne bushing does not
rotate on the bolt. Therefore, the hole for the bolt does not need to be a
tolerance hole. The bushing should be just slightly longer than the hole it
is in. Then tighten the bolt until the bushing does not rotate in the
control column. The stick mount will then rotate on the fixed bushing.
Typically the holes in the spar do not need to be reamed. Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: RST products |
Rick,
Becki and I have the RST panel in our RV6A and are very pleased with it .
The kit goes together good ,the instructions are good the the people at RST
were friendly. If yours works as well as ours you'll be happy ....George
Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
Subject: | Re: Expansion Reamer |
I bought some reamers from Avery's, and as usual they are first class.
Incidentally, I found that mounting the wings was easier than I expected.
After squaring everything up, I made sure the wings were level with each
other by using a digital level, accurate to 0.1 degree. I have lent this
level to several builders since.
Drilling for the rear spar is a bit scary, as you dare not get it wrong, but
then after reaming it out, and finding that the bolt is indeed a press fit
is very satisfying.
John.
Just finishing the wiring with no more major jobs, but 10,000 odds and ends
to finish.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
Subject: | Re: Long range fuel tanks |
Fred,
I was a little suprised at your numbers. I have the same engine in my
RV-4. I burn 7.1g/h at 2550RPM crusing at 165mph. Maybe the altitude
has s.th. to do with it. I am flying alot here between 8,500' and 11,500'.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
On Sat, 28 Dec 1996, Frederic w Stucklen wrote:
****** snip ***
> its fuel burn charactoristics. In my -6A, I have an O-320-D1A that only
> burns 8 Gals/Hr at cruise. (assuming 2300 RPM, 150-160 MPH). At high
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
Will someone give me Bernie Warnke's phone number, the one in November
Sport Aviation has been disconnected.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | sheinlein(at)VNET.IBM.COM |
Subject: | Not-so-basic riveting basics |
Well, I had the local EAA multiple-RV-building guru inspect my wing
spars last night and he scared the crap outta me on two points.
I'd like to hear from anyone out on RV-list-land to see what you
think about this... especially from people who have built their
own spars.
1. Looking at the shop head of a rivet, you'll notice that it is a
perfect circle when you look at it straight-on. Now, look at it
from the side. It is a barrel shape (right)? When I measured
my shop heads, I did so with a gauge that has a slot cut in it.
(That's what we all use, right?) This really measures the fattest
part of the barrel. Well, the inspector used calipers and measured
the width of the shop head right at the base. This measurement
is really the narrowest part of the shop head (bottom of the barrel).
As a result, about 30 of my #6 rivets had shop heads that were not
fat enough!
Q: What is the proper way to measure a shop head???!!!
I really shouldn't be asking this question at this point :(
2. Next, he pulled out a magnifying glass and took a look at the
"grain" structure of the shop heads. He believes that hitting
a rivet with a hammer (I used a 3 lb hammer and the C-Frame tool
as shown in George's videos) causes the grains in the metal to
form improperly. sigh... Basically, he said I should have used
a pneumatic squeezer to form the shop head in one shot. Not in
3 or 4 separate whacks.
Q: Any comments on setting #6 rivets with a hammer and how it
might adversely affect the quality of the rivet?
I tried to save $900 by building my own spars, but now I can't help
but wonder if I did the right thing...
Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated!
Thanks everyone!
Stephen Heinlein
sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
Subject: | Re: Brake Pedals |
ix.netcom.com!rmickey(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> I followed Frank Justices suggestion when building my brake pedals and
> lowered the side piece which attaches to the brake cylinder by 1/2 inch in
> order to slant the top of the brake pedal forward to avoid accidental
> braking on take off and landings. I am only installing brakes on the pilot
> side. The left brake pedal ended up slanting back about 1", just as Frake
> said it would. The right pedal, however, only slants back about 1/4". I am
> now going to have to rebuild one or both so that they are evenly slanted
> back. (I don't HAVE to but it seems to me that it would be odd to have the
> brake pedals at different angles)
>
> My suggestion to those who haven't built the pedals yet.....Don't rivet on
> the inside pieces which attach to the brake cylinder, just clamp them in
> place. Install into the rudder pedals with the brake cylinders and postion
> the pieces up or down to get the slant you want and to get them even on
> both sides.
>
> Ross Mickey
> 6A
Ross is correct about not riveting on the side pieces until after the
pedals are installed. I riveted mine and in order to get both pedals
even and slanted back at a comfortable angle I had to rivet some
extensions on my side pieces.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV-List:RV-4 Fuel pump (fwd) |
I am glad to hear there is now a fitting for the RV4 fuel pump
overflow that will clear the firewall.
I used an idea I saw in the RVator some time back which was to use
a 90 degree silicone spark plug boot from an automotive spark plug
wire. Just clamp it on with a tie-wrap and then I used
the Tigon fuel proof hose to route out the bottom of the cowl.
I just did the yr inspection an this has worked OK. I will get
new PN OVERFLOW PLUG 1/8 from Van's now that it is avail and have it
around for the next convient time to install it.
Herman
dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
> From owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com Sun Dec 22 12:57:39 1996
> Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
> Message-Id:
> Date: Sun, 22 Dec 96 10:11 PST
> X-Sender: billb(at)europa.com
> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> From: Bill Benedict <europa.com!billb(at)matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List:RV-4 Fuel pump
> Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Precedence: bulk
> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> >
> ><< The good news is we have a little fitting (PN OVERFLOW PLUG 1/8"
> > $6.75) that will fit in a stock pump and just misses the firewall. Bill.
> > Bill
> > RV-4-180 soon. N894RV
> > Over 1000 RV hours. >>
> > Bill:
> >
> >Can this part be installed on an assembled a/c, or is it like the oil press
> >fitting?
> >
> >Check six!
> >Mark
> >
> Mark, Kinda.... The fuel pump needs to be removed, but that only takes
> about five minutes. I put it on my four with no trouble and another local
> put it on his with no problem. I have not flown it yet, as I am not using
> my old baffeling and the new one is taking a while to implement.
>
> Bill
> RV-4-180 soon. N894RV
> Over 1000 RV hours.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ron Caldwell <74504.1365(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Subject: | 0-360's With No Fuel Priming Systems |
Would some one who has not installed a fuel primer system on an 0-360 tell me
how well does the engine start and if there are any problems (such as cold
weather starts)?
Thanks in advance for your help
Ron Caldwell
74504.1365(at)compuserve.com
RV6A N655RV- Reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Long range fuel tanks |
From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Dan,
Most of our flying out here in the flatlands (east coast) is down low.
I do better at higher altitudes, and that explains the 4.5 Hrs to
exhaustion number. By the time I climb up to 8000' - 11000' area I've
burned over the 8 Gal/Hr, then get it back again in cruise up there.
I am still using a mag's, but hope to someday be a ble to aford a CD
ignition system. That should help the numbers a little.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>Fred,
>I was a little suprised at your numbers. I have the same engine in my
>RV-4. I burn 7.1g/h at 2550RPM crusing at 165mph. Maybe the altitude
>has s.th. to do with it. I am flying alot here between 8,500' and
>11,500'.
>
>Dan Boudro
>RV-4 N9167Z
>Albuquerque, NM
>dboudro(at)nmia.com
>
>On Sat, 28 Dec 1996, Frederic w Stucklen wrote:
>****** snip ***
>> its fuel burn charactoristics. In my -6A, I have an O-320-D1A that
>only
>> burns 8 Gals/Hr at cruise. (assuming 2300 RPM, 150-160 MPH). At high
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Warnke Props |
<< Will someone give me Bernie Warnke's phone number, the one in November
Sport Aviation has been disconnected.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
>>
Hi All,
Warnke's phone number is (520) 822-1166.
I believe he moved his shop out of the hangar at the airport.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | walsh(at)cpeedy.ENET.dec.com |
Subject: | Not-so-basic riveting basics |
This truly takes the cake!! This is the most incredible thing I have ever
heard in my entire life!!! I thought I had heard some beauties from "so-called"
tech counselors but this is just incredible.
I suggest you immediately run out and buy a Scanning Electron Microscope.
You mean you haven't been analyzing the grain structure of the shop heads of
your rivets all this time??? Of course, if you want to do it RIGHT, you must
cut a section through each rivet and alalyze the structure all the way
through. Once you have acceptable structure, you should build a wing panel
and test it to destruction. You can then go back and make one for real.
This means you must build at least three sets of spars but if you want it
done right......
OK Stephen, come clean!! You must be making this up right? I get it now,
you're pulling our leg. Geez, you had me going....
John
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Gene Gottschalk <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov> |
Subject: | Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics |
Steve,
I used a hammer on my left wing and a rivet squeezer on my right wing. As
near as I can tell I got essentially the same results both ways, although
the squeezer was easier. I used the Avery rivet gauge to test my rivet
set, that is, I used the hole end to determine if my shop head was large
enough in diameter. If the hole did not slide all the way over the rivet
head it was OK. I used the slot end to determine if the head was too thin.
If the top of the slot caught any part of the rivet head it was OK. Since
I riveted my spars I have had three inspections, one of which was by an
A&P. All agreed the riveting was fine.
I did have to cut somewhere between one third to one half the rivets to a
better length to get a good set without worrying about bending them over
(and I did bend some). Any more than 1 1/2 time the diameter in length was
inviting trouble. I tried for about 1 1/4 diameter. I found I could
remove the bent rivets without damaging the holes. I would drill the rivet
through the center slightly less than 3/16 (5/32 or maybe a numbered bit, I
don't remember exactly). I could "pop" the shop head off the rivet shaft
and use a drill bit turned backwards in the drill press to push the
remaining rivet out of the hole.
I would get another opinion if I were you, and if that isn't enough call
Van's and describe what you have. I think the biggest problem you have is
regaining confidence in your workmanship. Many, and I mean MANY people
have set their wing spar rivets with the hammer method. Good luck, don't
sweat it too much, just ask a few more folks.
-Gene Gottschalk
geneg(at)oz.kis.net
geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov
>Well, I had the local EAA multiple-RV-building guru inspect my wing
>spars last night and he scared the crap outta me on two points.
>I'd like to hear from anyone out on RV-list-land to see what you
>think about this... especially from people who have built their
>own spars.
>Stephen Heinlein
>sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
Subject: | Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics + FREE OFFER REPEATED |
Stephen,
.... I guess you have never taken me up on the RV-list offer of a
copy of the MIL-spec on riveting ...:^) ... It's MIL-R-47196A "Rivets,
buck type, preparation for and installation of"
*** FREE OFFER REPEATED ****
For a copy of this spec. send an SASE with 2 stamps to:
Gil Alexander
4434 Stewart Av.
Los Angeles CA 90066
.... this spec will define how a rivet must be inspected. If your guru
was using 1.5D as the minimum formed diam. of the shop head he was wrong.
For a -6 rivet the minimum diam. is .244 inches. His caliper measurement
point is probably right, but I bet he didn't use 0.244 as minimum. Your
"slot guage" is probably 1.5D == 0.281, and I bet your barrel effect is not
that large.
Also some cracking of the shop head IS allowed, and specified in the
spec., so worrying about "grain", if it is _not_ actual cracking may be
excessive.
Send the SASE .... :^) ... copy the spec. and give it to your guru, if
it's good enough for the military, it's good enough for my RV.
... Gil Alexander (already send about 60 specs. out) Alexander
>Well, I had the local EAA multiple-RV-building guru inspect my wing
>spars last night and he scared the crap outta me on two points.
>I'd like to hear from anyone out on RV-list-land to see what you
>think about this... especially from people who have built their
>own spars.
>
>1. Looking at the shop head of a rivet, you'll notice that it is a
> perfect circle when you look at it straight-on. Now, look at it
> from the side. It is a barrel shape (right)? When I measured
> my shop heads, I did so with a gauge that has a slot cut in it.
> (That's what we all use, right?) This really measures the fattest
> part of the barrel. Well, the inspector used calipers and measured
> the width of the shop head right at the base. This measurement
> is really the narrowest part of the shop head (bottom of the barrel).
> As a result, about 30 of my #6 rivets had shop heads that were not
> fat enough!
>
> Q: What is the proper way to measure a shop head???!!!
> I really shouldn't be asking this question at this point :(
>
>2. Next, he pulled out a magnifying glass and took a look at the
> "grain" structure of the shop heads. He believes that hitting
> a rivet with a hammer (I used a 3 lb hammer and the C-Frame tool
> as shown in George's videos) causes the grains in the metal to
> form improperly. sigh... Basically, he said I should have used
> a pneumatic squeezer to form the shop head in one shot. Not in
> 3 or 4 separate whacks.
>
> Q: Any comments on setting #6 rivets with a hammer and how it
> might adversely affect the quality of the rivet?
>
>I tried to save $900 by building my own spars, but now I can't help
>but wonder if I did the right thing...
>
>Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated!
>
>Thanks everyone!
>
>Stephen Heinlein
>sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com
>
>
gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bruce Stobbe <70743.2727(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Subject: | Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics |
SNIP >>
>>He believes that hitting a rivet with a hammer (I used a 3 lb hammer and the
C-Frame tool
as shown in George's videos) causes the grains in the metal to
form improperly. sigh... Basically, he said I should have used
a pneumatic squeezer to form the shop head in one shot. Not in
3 or 4 separate whacks<<
SNIP <<
Hmmmmmm. WHAT! Doesn't a rivet gun/bucking bar form the shop head in several
separate whacks.... Don't tell me I have to replace all the rivets I set using
a gun and bucking bar...
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6; N508RV res
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics |
Steve, You either did a really bad riveting job or the guy looking at your
project needs to spend less time in the lab and more time in the real world.
Not every rivet will be perfect although we would like them to be. Here are a
few of the basic rules. In order for the bucktail to have approximately the
right height and length the rivet must be the correct length. You cannot use
the plans to figgure this out for you! Some times the lengths are correct on
the plans, sometimes not! For what we are using here is a good rule of thumb.
Take the thickness of all materials being riveted together plus 1.5 times the
rivet diameter. this should give you the proper length rivet. After riveting
the bucktail should be 1.5 times the diameter of the rivet and perfectly
round. The height of the bucktail should be one half of your rivet diameter.
Now you have the basic info so we can now make a simple go no go gauge. Lets
say we are using a #6 rivet. 1.5D should be 9/32nds (I hope my math is good)
and our heigth should be .5D or 3/32nds. 3/32nds breaks down to a piece of
.093 aluminum. Now take a small strip of .093 aluminum and drill a 9/32nds
hole in it. The hole can be used as a guide for the correct diameter of the
bucktail and the thickness of the tool can be used to check the height . This
is only a guide and rivets should be round and uniform and close to these
dimensions. If you made a mistake on a few rivets drill them out and install
new ones, no big deal we all blow one once and a while. As far as using the
hammer and set up you used, that is also an acceptable practice. It will work
fine but you need to make sure your spar is perpendicular to your riveting
set up and your rivets must be of correct lenght. It sounds to me like your
rivets were to long that will give you a lopsided bucktail unless your really
talented. Ive taken up more than to much space , Good luck and I hope this
will help. Ryan Bendure RV4131rb
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
Subject: | Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics |
This is not as stupid as it sounds.
I have read that 'over driving' rivets can lead to intergranular
corrosion in the rivets. I suspect that is what this inspector was
being concerned about.
I think this takes years to happen (the intergranual corrosion).
You don't want to over drive the rivets.
Most rivets do have a 'barrel' shape to them. I would expect there
to be only a slight necking down at the base however.
Why not call Phlogistene (sp?) (the folks that make Van's spars) and see
what their inspection criteria is?
Herman
dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
> to: Stephen Heinlein
>
> This truly takes the cake!! This is the most incredible thing I have ever
> heard in my entire life!!! I thought I had heard some beauties from "so-called"
> tech counselors but this is just incredible.
>
> I suggest you immediately run out and buy a Scanning Electron Microscope.
> You mean you haven't been analyzing the grain structure of the shop heads of
> your rivets all this time??? Of course, if you want to do it RIGHT, you must
> cut a section through each rivet and alalyze the structure all the way
> through. Once you have acceptable structure, you should build a wing panel
> and test it to destruction. You can then go back and make one for real.
> This means you must build at least three sets of spars but if you want it
> done right......
>
> OK Stephen, come clean!! You must be making this up right? I get it now,
> you're pulling our leg. Geez, you had me going....
>
> John
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
Subject: | Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics |
>Well, I had the local EAA multiple-RV-building guru inspect my wing
>spars last night and he scared the crap outta me on two points.
>I'd like to hear from anyone out on RV-list-land to see what you
>think about this... especially from people who have built their
>own spars.
>
>1. Looking at the shop head of a rivet, you'll notice that it is a
> perfect circle when you look at it straight-on. Now, look at it
> from the side. It is a barrel shape (right)? When I measured
> my shop heads, I did so with a gauge that has a slot cut in it.
> (That's what we all use, right?) This really measures the fattest
> part of the barrel. Well, the inspector used calipers and measured
> the width of the shop head right at the base. This measurement
> is really the narrowest part of the shop head (bottom of the barrel).
> As a result, about 30 of my #6 rivets had shop heads that were not
> fat enough!
>
> Q: What is the proper way to measure a shop head???!!!
> I really shouldn't be asking this question at this point :(
>
I have never heard of this method of measuring the shop head. According to
my 'ASA Aviation Mechanics Handbook' the 'rivet should be driven until the
head is one-half of the shank diameter in thickness and has a diameter of
one and one-half times that of the shank'. The drawing in the handbook
shows the measurement is made at the widest part of the shop head---not the
part next to the aluminum sheet.
>2. Next, he pulled out a magnifying glass and took a look at the
> "grain" structure of the shop heads. He believes that hitting
> a rivet with a hammer (I used a 3 lb hammer and the C-Frame tool
> as shown in George's videos) causes the grains in the metal to
> form improperly. sigh... Basically, he said I should have used
> a pneumatic squeezer to form the shop head in one shot. Not in
> 3 or 4 separate whacks.
>
> Q: Any comments on setting #6 rivets with a hammer and how it
> might adversely affect the quality of the rivet?
>
Granted, if you had used a smaller hammer and whacked the rivet many times
before it was formed enough, then you might have a problem. The difference
in time between using a rivet gun to give the rivet those 'whacks' and how
long it takes a hammer to do the same is minimal. My humble opinion (it's
worth what you pay for it) is that you're fine, no problem.
Also bear in mind that these measurements are the optimum; there is always
some leeway.
FWIW, I'm an EAA Tech Counselor, too. So now we can the 'War of the
Counselors'!!!
>I tried to save $900 by building my own spars, but now I can't help
>but wonder if I did the right thing...
>
>Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated!
>
>Thanks everyone!
>
>Stephen Heinlein
>sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com
>
>
>
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
Subject: | RV-8 engine for sale (IO360-A1A) |
For Sale: Lycoming IO-360-A1A 200 HP angle valve engine for RV-8.
This is a 'Wide Deck' engine with DynaFocal mount.
Engine has front mounted fuel injector and rear mounted prop governor.
Engine was built up with the 10:1 helicoptor pistons so this should add
about 10 more HP to the output (ie 210 HP). If you use 4:1 exh system
you should also get about another 10HP.
I talked to Van's Aircraft and they said the rear mounted prop governor
will work OK in the RV8.
The engine was overhauled and assembled by D&B Aircraft Engines in
Oklahoma City. The crank has mains turned .010 and rods .003 under.
Crank, case, and lifters were yellow tagged.
The cylinders had 200 hrs total on them so they only had the exhaust
guides replaced and the cylinders honed.
All new main/rod bearings, rod bolts/nuts, rings, pistons.
The fuel injector was also OH by Terry's in OK city but was not yellow
tagged.
Comes with light wt B&C starter and starter ring.
The Mags are Bendix (these can be traded in on new Slick mags for about
a total of $600.00. I talked to Mattituck and the price for the
kit K4536 is $755.04 and then Slick will rebate $150.00 so net price
would be $605 for two new mags and harness.) Or you can go with
the electonic ignition route.
It has a Hartzell Prop Govenor that was not OH'd. You can get a new
Woodward govner from Vans for 925.00. One of the postings on this
news group said that EMI in Tulsa will sell you one for $325.
The engine looks very sharp and was well detailed on assembly.
Color is std. Lycoming Grey paint with anodized valve covers and
intake tubes. The engine has not been run.
The engine did not come with prior log books so the total time
is unknown.
This should be a good engine for a RV-8. I expect these engines will
become more hard to find as more RV-8 builders start buying them up.
Price is $15,000 (14,500 if you come pick it up at Austin TX).
Looking on the VanBortel Air Power home page:
http://www.vanbortel.com/airpower/lyc.html
The cost of new AEIO-360 is 32,389 and AirPower sells for $26,593
Factory Reman price from AirPower is 19,845 and you need to provide
a core. The field OH AirPower price is 13,825 and you need to provide
a core. The core charge is $6,700 if you don't have a core.
Call me if interested.
Herman Dierks Home 512-255-0265
Work 512-838-2831
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics |
<< Q: What is the proper way to measure a shop head???!!!
I really shouldn't be asking this question at this point :( >>
Boy, that EAA tech guy really knows his stuff. Magnifying glass AND calipers
to check rivets.
Barf.
What is whith these people who can take something so simple and make it into
a task that requires special tools, not to mention valuable time.
The real simple way to check your rivets:
1) Insert the rivet into the drilled hole(s). The shop-side should be 1.5
times the width of the rivet (3/32 x 1.5 = 9/64; 1/8 x 1.5 = 3/16). In time
(about 50 or so rivets) your eye becomes a wonderful gauge for this.
2) Bang on the rivet until the resulting width is 1.5 times of the starting
width of the rivet. Feel free to use your handy sight (eye) gauge here as
well. Make sure that the shop side is directly below the factory side.
Hint. Don't blast your rivets in one fast pull of the trigger. Feather the
trigger so you don't work-harden the rivets. This method gives you time to
see what is happening to your work as well. If your air is set correctly, it
should take one, but not more than two seconds to set a rivet. Forget all of
that crap about heating, boiling, cooking your rivets. Its not food, its
aluminum. Same goes for heating skins, just keep your shop above 70 degrees
or so and keep good pressure on the skins as you drill. Use lots of clecos.
If you can find a pneumatic squeezer to set your spar rivets, great. If you
can't, the method that you are using is tried and true.
Sounds like you're doing it right to me Stephen.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC, NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
Subject: | Elevator skin: elongated holes |
Hi all,
A bit of advice, if you please:
Dimpling my right elevator skin, I've stretched two of the stiffener holes.
One is the nearest to the TE on the top (arghh), the other is the second
from the TE on the bottom. The holes are both large enough to see round the
edge of a 3/32" rivet that's in the correct hole.
Q1: How to fix this?
I did scan the archive on this topic; the consensus there seemed to be to
fill the hole with Bondo, but surely that won't be strong enough? My
inclination is to give up my OSH Grand Champion ambitions and drill and
dimple the holes for a 1/8" flush rivet. Are there any implications
regarding stiffness, oilcanning, etc with either of these fixes?
Q2: How did everyone else dimple those difficult holes near the TE?
The initial problem was that when I bent the top skin back enough to get the
Avery C-tool and hammer in, the bottom skin flexed back, especially when I
was dimpling the hole nearest the TE. This caused the edge of the dimple die
to be outlined in the skin, as I found out on my rudder :-(. (On the plus
side, I found I could easily press these marks out with finger pressure). On
the other side of the rudder, and on the right elevator, I used foam rubber
squabs provide more support to the skin from underneath, and to press down
on it from above, thus holding it flat. That worked well on the rudder; I'm
not sure why things went wrong on the elevator. The problem (I think) was
that the squabs underneath partially lifted the skin off the male dimple
die, allowing it to move and elongate the holes.
Frank.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Tim Lewis said:
> >I need a 1/4" reamer for the control stick bushing, and I'd rather buy an
And Bill Benedict said:
> The control stick pivots on the bushing. Tne bushing does not
> rotate on the bolt. Therefore, the hole for the bolt does not need to be a
> tolerance hole. The bushing should be just slightly longer than the hole it
> is in. Then tighten the bolt until the bushing does not rotate in the
> control column. The stick mount will then rotate on the fixed bushing.
I just have one thing to add: you don't need to _ream_ out the hole
necessarily but you DO need to make it bigger somehow (I did anyway!)
I used a 'D' drill bit at first, it wasn't enough. So I went to a
1/4" bit and it went in fine -- not as tight as I'd like but as Bill
says it doesn't need to be close tolerance. Something between a 1/4"
and a 'D' would be just right.
Anyhow, the point is you probably will have to ream it out but you can
use a drill to do it.
The inner diameter of the welement -- now that's another story. Don't
go reaming or honing it out (to clean out rust or primer or for
example), or you'll introduce slop in the controls. I did this and
ended up with a teeny bit of slop -- not enough to matter (this
according to several people who sure ought to know) but it bugs me
that it happened.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Joe Rex" <jfr(at)ix.netcom.com> |
I have just started on my -4 fuselage, and I need some advice. I have
found what seems to be a slight contradiction in Van's manual (surprise).
Near the beginning of the section on the fuselage, they recommend laying
out and constructing the instrument panel. Later in the chapter, they say
that many builders prefer to put this task off until fitting their canopy.
Since the top of the panel defines the shape of the surface that the canopy
mates to, the theory presented in the manual is that it is easier to
slightly alter the shape of the instrument panel to fit the curve of the
canopy frame, than to alter the shape of the canopy frame. I would love to
hear from builders about which of these two methods they used, and their
success, or lack of success with that method.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bseckstein(at)aol.com |
Stephan
The great Tony Bingelis built his spars with the 3 whack method, see Sport
Aviation, May 1993 for his contribution. Also, does your local guru advise
against using a rivet gun? Rivet guns do not form a shop head in one blow
(squeeze).
Sounds like a case of the "bull elephant trumpeting to the herd" (I stole
that from Garrison Keillor).
Those rivet testers are made that way for a reason. If they needed to test
the bottom of the shop head, they would be made to measure the bottom.
Brian Eckstein
6A spars
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | WCannon313(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: 0-360's With No Fuel Priming Systems |
I have about 300 hours behind my O-360 mounted in both a T-18 and RV-6 with
no primer system of any type other than the accelerator pump in the carb. I
have had no problems of any sort with cold weather starts that a little
pumping wont take care of. But, of course a cold weather start in the Seattle
area is one that approaches freezing. Shouldn't be a problem, if you've got a
pump.
Walt Cannon
Prepping for paint
RV-6 N36WC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Joe Rex" <jfr(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | Elongated elevator skin holes |
The solution to your problem is simple! You can order what is called a
AN-1097 (cheater) rivet. This is a great little goof-up saver. It has a
1/8 in shank with a 3/32 in. flush head. They come in varius lengths, and
can be ordered from Van's.
To dimple in really tight places, I recomment a nifty little tool sold by
Avery. It is a flush rivet set that uses a pop rivet tool and a common
nail. It works especially well on thin(.016) skins.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics |
VNET.IBM.COM!sheinlein(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Well, I had the local EAA multiple-RV-building guru inspect my wing
> spars last night and he scared the crap outta me on two points.
> I'd like to hear from anyone out on RV-list-land to see what you
> think about this... especially from people who have built their
> own spars.
>
By the way who is this "multiple-RV-building guru" if he is on the list
maybe he would like to comment. Does he also think that using a
pneumatic
rivet gun also damages the grain of the rivet? If your shop heads fall
within the tolerance of your rivet gauge and they look good to you
quit worrying. Personally I used the rivet gauge for about ten rivets
then threw it away and used the eyeball method. This guy is just trying
to impress you with his magnifying glass and calipers. Some builders
think that if you are not doing something the way they do it then you
are either a idiot or are doing it wrong. There are a lot of different
ways to do the same job and get good results and using a hammer and the
"c" unit is just one of the ways.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics |
VNET.IBM.COM!sheinlein(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Well, I had the local EAA multiple-RV-building guru inspect my wing
> spars last night and he scared the crap outta me on two points.
> I'd like to hear from anyone out on RV-list-land to see what you
> think about this... especially from people who have built their
> own spars.
>
> 1. Looking at the shop head of a rivet, you'll notice that it is a
> perfect circle when you look at it straight-on. Now, look at it
> from the side. It is a barrel shape (right)? When I measured
> my shop heads, I did so with a gauge that has a slot cut in it.
> (That's what we all use, right?) This really measures the fattest
> part of the barrel. Well, the inspector used calipers and measured
> the width of the shop head right at the base. This measurement
> is really the narrowest part of the shop head (bottom of the barrel).
> As a result, about 30 of my #6 rivets had shop heads that were not
> fat enough!
>
> Q: What is the proper way to measure a shop head???!!!
> I really shouldn't be asking this question at this point :(
>
> 2. Next, he pulled out a magnifying glass and took a look at the
> "grain" structure of the shop heads. He believes that hitting
> a rivet with a hammer (I used a 3 lb hammer and the C-Frame tool
> as shown in George's videos) causes the grains in the metal to
> form improperly. sigh... Basically, he said I should have used
> a pneumatic squeezer to form the shop head in one shot. Not in
> 3 or 4 separate whacks.
>
> Q: Any comments on setting #6 rivets with a hammer and how it
> might adversely affect the quality of the rivet?
>
> I tried to save $900 by building my own spars, but now I can't help
> but wonder if I did the right thing...
>
> Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated!
>
> Thanks everyone!
>
> Stephen Heinlein
> sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com
Stephen
I built my own spars and saved the 900$,and alot of other people
have done the same. Not too long ago you did not have any choice,
you had to build them yourself. I think most people use the C-frame
to build the spars, its cheap and you have to have one any way.
Except for the RV-3 you almost never hear of a spar failure in an
RV
It sounds like you built it according to the plans so dump the
guru and find a good tech advisor.
CRAIG HIERS
TALLAHASSEE,FL
Why cant I find a good O-320.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Brake Pedals |
chester razer wrote:
>
> ix.netcom.com!rmickey(at)matronics.com wrote:
> >
> > I followed Frank Justices suggestion when building my brake pedals and
> > lowered the side piece which attaches to the brake cylinder by 1/2 inch in
> > order to slant the top of the brake pedal forward to avoid accidental
> > braking on take off and landings. I am only installing brakes on the pilot
> > side. The left brake pedal ended up slanting back about 1", just as Frake
> > said it would. The right pedal, however, only slants back about 1/4". I am
> > now going to have to rebuild one or both so that they are evenly slanted
> > back. (I don't HAVE to but it seems to me that it would be odd to have the
> > brake pedals at different angles)
> >
> > My suggestion to those who haven't built the pedals yet.....Don't rivet on
> > the inside pieces which attach to the brake cylinder, just clamp them in
> > place. Install into the rudder pedals with the brake cylinders and postion
> > the pieces up or down to get the slant you want and to get them even on
> > both sides.
> >
> > Ross Mickey
> > 6A
>
> Ross is correct about not riveting on the side pieces until after the
> pedals are installed. I riveted mine and in order to get both pedals
> even and slanted back at a comfortable angle I had to rivet some
> extensions on my side pieces.
> --
> Chet Razer
> crazer(at)egyptian.net
Im glad to see this, my brakes are straight up and down and very
uncomfortable.......Time to climb back down there and change them.
CRAIG HIERS
RV-4 N143CH
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MiDiBu <midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com> |
Subject: | Re: 0-360's With No Fuel Priming Systems |
>Would some one who has not installed a fuel primer system on an 0-360 tell me
>how well does the engine start and if there are any problems (such as cold
>weather starts)?
>
>Thanks in advance for your help
>
>Ron Caldwell
>74504.1365(at)compuserve.com
>RV6A N655RV- Reserved
>
>
Ron,
I have flown an M20C that had a similar engine (O-360). I was teaching a
new owner how to fly it.
We could not get the engine to start on a cold day, even with a battery cart
connected. We finally figured it out. You pump the throttle. Pump it
while the engine is turning with the starter. We never had a problem after
learning that.
Caveats: Pump it slowly. There is a touch. You can get it to start in a
blade or two with the right technique. And always, when you're going to
pump the throttle, have a fire extinguisher around. I had some friends
starting their 182 and they pumped the throttle to get some fuel in there.
It dribbled on the ground and caught fire. No problem at that point. They
pulled the airplane out of the way. However, they were using a car to
jumper-off the plane. Everything would have been OK, except for the front
of the car being in front of the horizontal stabilizer.
The nice thing is that the O-360 engine will consistantly start when it's
hot, no priming necessary. I've learned how to start a hot IO-360, but it's
not fun.
Hope this helps,
Mike Weller RV 80187 (under construction)
midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com (preferred) or mike.weller(at)msfc.nasa.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
Subject: | Re: Elevator skin: elongated holes |
Simple solution for this. Merely drill the holes out to 1/8" and use the
NAS1097AD-4-X rivets. This rivet has an 1/8" shank and the factory head is
the same size as the 3/32" rivet.
Believe me, you aren't the first to need these rivets. Aircraft Spruce has
them for abouit $2.53 per 1/8 pound.
>Hi all,
>A bit of advice, if you please:
>
>Dimpling my right elevator skin, I've stretched two of the stiffener holes.
>One is the nearest to the TE on the top (arghh), the other is the second
>from the TE on the bottom. The holes are both large enough to see round the
>edge of a 3/32" rivet that's in the correct hole.
>
>Q1: How to fix this?
>
>>
>Frank.
>--
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
>Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
>Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
>PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
>http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Wingtip lights |
From: | Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)highfiber.com> |
Rick Osgood wrote:
I am looking for advice on how to mount the position lights on the
wingtips for a 6A. Any photos, drawings, etc.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
I used the fiberglass position light mounts offered in Van's catalog. I
followed the accompanying instructions for their installation. I used
Aeropoxy Light to fill the modified area's weave/low spots and topped
that with Stits FC-900 Feathercoat filler. I then sprayed PPG K-200
primer surfacer over the entire wingtip, then PPG DP-48 epoxy primer,
then the finish coat. Lots of sanding in there between coats. I was very
pleased with the results; this is a simple and attractive way to put
position lights/strobes on the tips. Probably not as low-drag as the
enclosed lens options, but very good light coverage.
All the materials mentioned above are available from Aircraft Spruce,
except the PPG products. If you are fiberglass-ophobic like I was, I
highly recommend the composite materials practice kit Aircraft Spruce
also sells. Includes practice materials and an instructional manual by
Burt Rutan. Completing 3 practice projects from this kit gave me tons of
confidence in tackling fiberglass work. I substituted West Systems epoxy
due to the convenient pump dispensers offered with this product - no
measuring or weighing required to mix epoxy. I got the finishing
materials/sequence recommended by a local friend here in Albuquerque who
has completed a Vari-Eze, a Long-Eze, and a Glasair III. Also has an RV-4
under his belt, so he can build REAL airplanes, too.
Went on well past the original wingtip light question; bottom line -
Van's add-on light mounts are an inexpensive and attractive option.
...installing the canopy...
Mike Kukulski
RV-4 N96MK
kukulski(at)highfiber.com
Albuquerque, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
Subject: | Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics |
>
>CRAIG HIERS
>TALLAHASSEE,FL
>Why cant I find a good O-320.
>
>
You need a bigger checkbook!!!
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
Over the holidays the local news had a report of an experimental airplane
crash in our local mountains (San Diego, Ca.). Later reports had the
airplane as an RV-6 belonging to Jerry Farhat. I met Jerry once this past
fall at a Chapter 14 get together while he was still flying off his hours.
Both he and his wife were killed in the crash.
The news people speculated that the crash was due to weather (front passing
thru with lots of rain and wind). This area is known to be dangerous in bad
weather; there have been 2 other fatal crashes in these mountains in the
past year.
Has anyone heard anything further about this accident?
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics |
Ask this guy what is the proper way to build a submarine sandwich and to give
you a written report and data to back up his findings. While you are waiting
for that, finish your spars, wings, fuselage, and complete your RV go fly it
and have some fun. If you want something to really worry about Just try to
explain to your wife why your aviation fuel bills are larger than your house
payment!
Chris May
RV-4 N595CM (100hrs. & wings still on)
________________________________________________________________________________
I built my panel first. I had a very hard time getting my canopy to match the
panel. I think triming the final shape of the panel after the canopy frame is
clecoed in place sounds like a very good idea to me. I think I would try it
that way if I were (or maby I should say when) I do it again!
Chris May
RV-4 N595CM
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: 0-360's With No Fuel Priming Systems |
I don't know if there is any real difference between your 0-360 and my 0-320
high compression 160 H.P. but I did not install a primer and my engine starts
just fine, even in 15 degree weather. I decided to try it first and see how
it worked without one and I am glad I did. I figured I could always add one
later if it were necessary. I do have a accelerator pump on my carb. and I
think that helps; the only thing I try to keep in mind is if the engine back
fires there is a chance for a carb. fire if fuel from the accelerator is
dumped in the air box from excessive throttle pumping while trying to start
the engine.
Chris May
RV-4 N595CM.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
Subject: | Re: Aluminum bonding agent |
>Can anyone recommend an aluminum to aluminum bonding agent (adhesive,
>glue...). It should be heat resistant up to maybe 200 F. I'm
>manufacturing my rotary engine mounting plate, reinforced with T6
>angles along the sides. In addition to riveting/bolting, I'd like the
>added strength of also bonding the angles to the plate.
>
>Finn
>
>finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com
Finn, I don't know the temp properties of pro-seal that we use on the fuel
tanks, but we use pro-seal for everything, including bonding things to the
firewall. Of course, after you have used it you will know I refer to it as
"Black Death"!
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
Subject: | Re: 0-360's With No Fuel Priming Systems |
>Would some one who has not installed a fuel primer system on an 0-360 tell me
>how well does the engine start and if there are any problems (such as cold
>weather starts)?
>
>Thanks in advance for your help
>
>Ron Caldwell
>74504.1365(at)compuserve.com
>RV6A N655RV- Reserved
Ron, Kinda depends where you live! At Van's, none of the aircraft have
primers (except the -4 which has an Ellison and requires a prime to start),
neither does mine or Tom's. They seem to start with no problem. As soon as
the engine starts turning, pump the throttle twice and she comes alive. In
colder climates, it may be necessary. Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
Subject: | Re: Brake Pedals, but beware! |
>Several folks wrote about brake pedals:
>>
>> > I followed Frank Justices suggestion when building my brake pedals and
>> > lowered the side piece which attaches to the brake cylinder by 1/2 inch in
>> > order to slant the top of the brake pedal forward
>> > My suggestion to those who haven't built the pedals yet.....Don't rivet on
>> > the inside pieces which attach to the brake cylinder, just clamp them in
>> > place. Install into the rudder pedals with the brake cylinders and postion
>> > the pieces up or down to get the slant you want and to get them even on
>> > both sides.
>> >
>> > Ross Mickey
>> > 6A
>>
>> Ross is correct about not riveting on the side pieces until after the
>> pedals are installed. I riveted mine and in order to get both pedals
>> even and slanted back at a comfortable angle I had to rivet some
>> extensions on my side pieces.
>> --
>> Chet Razer
>> crazer(at)egyptian.net
>
>Im glad to see this, my brakes are straight up and down and very
>uncomfortable.......Time to climb back down there and change them.
>
>CRAIG HIERS
>RV-4 N143CH
Just my two bits, but when you slant them forward are you loosing a little
possible brake action when the rudder is fully applied and the top of the
pedal hits the firewall? When making a cross wind landing, you may need
to use all of the rudder when the A/C slows down. If the top of the rudder
pedal strikes the firewall before the braking action takes effect, you are
setting yourself up for a ground loop (Taildragger pilot = there are those
who have, and those who will!) Normally the brake master cylinder will
apply braking action by just breathing on them (touchy trigger), but if you
get an air bubble (and some day you will, usually on the windyest (sp) day
of the season, you may need as much as 1/4 inch or more of piston travel on
the brake to apply the brakes. Before charging into a change here, think
of all the interferences that could occur.
Even the -6A need those brakes. Returning from S-N-F one year, the left
brake went out on the -6A. When we landed for gas, all of our turns were
to the right, sometimes 270 degrees just to make a 90 degree turn to the
left. Sometimes you just made a 360 in the middle of a taxiway just to get
back in the middle of a taxiway. We fixed the problem before we proceeded.
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
Subject: | Re: 0-360's With No Fuel Priming Systems |
>I don't know if there is any real difference between your 0-360 and my 0-320
>high compression 160 H.P. but I did not install a primer and my engine starts
>just fine, even in 15 degree weather. I decided to try it first and see how
>it worked without one and I am glad I did. I figured I could always add one
>later if it were necessary. I do have a accelerator pump on my carb. and I
>think that helps; the only thing I try to keep in mind is if the engine back
>fires there is a chance for a carb. fire if fuel from the accelerator is
>dumped in the air box from excessive throttle pumping while trying to start
>the engine.
>Chris May
>RV-4 N595CM.
The carb fire is the negative of pumping, but if you pump after the engine
is turning, the theory is the fire (should it occur) will get sucked into
the engine. As long as you can keep the engine turning, the fire (I've
never had one) will be contained.
Putting the fire possibility (which is real) aside, most of us do not have
primers or if we do, do not use them all that much. Most of us will not
admit it, but we hit the throttle with a squirt before the engine turns.
But there is that remote possibility. Of course, I've only had one line on
my engine break, and that was the manifold pressure line (same as a primer
line) and that would have pumped fuel over my engine if it had been a primer
line.
In conclusion, keep it simple. If you need it, you can always add it
later as Chris stated. Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
>I built my panel first. I had a very hard time getting my canopy to match the
>panel. I think triming the final shape of the panel after the canopy frame is
>clecoed in place sounds like a very good idea to me. I think I would try it
>that way if I were (or maby I should say when) I do it again!
>Chris May
>RV-4 N595CM
Another repeat offender as we refer to multiple builders. What most of the
builders realize is, when they complete and fly the A/C they see things
they would do different. Why not put all that experience into play.
Besides, to have a showplane on the first project is not impossible, but
challenging. The third plane is a showplane whether you try or not, just
happens! Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
Subject: | Re: Elevator skin: elongated holes |
>Simple solution for this. Merely drill the holes out to 1/8" and use the
>NAS1097AD-4-X rivets. This rivet has an 1/8" shank and the factory head is
>the same size as the 3/32" rivet.
>
>Believe me, you aren't the first to need these rivets. Aircraft Spruce has
>them for abouit $2.53 per 1/8 pound.
>
>
>>Hi all,
>>A bit of advice, if you please:
>>
>>Dimpling my right elevator skin, I've stretched two of the stiffener holes.
>>One is the nearest to the TE on the top (arghh), the other is the second
>>from the TE on the bottom. The holes are both large enough to see round the
>>edge of a 3/32" rivet that's in the correct hole.
>>
>>Q1: How to fix this?
>>
>>>
>>Frank.
>>--
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
>>Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
>>Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
>>PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
>>http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>John Ammeter
>ammeterj(at)seanet.com
>3233 NE 95th St
>Seattle WA, 98115 USA
>RV-6 N16JA
>First flight August 1990
John and Frank,
Van's has these rivets too. On page 50 of the Sept '96 catalog. We call
them Oops rivet. They can be ordered in as little as 0.01 pounds for about
$1.7 per 0.1 pounds. Just make sure you order it with something else (like
headsets, radios, another empennage kit, you know, those big buck items)
so the crating charge doesn't cost more than the rivets. I think the Boeing
people call these rivets McDonald rivets, and the Mc..... Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
Joe, Bob Avery gave me some advice a long time ago that worked well. Shape
your canopy frame to fit your fuselage first, shim it to compensate for the
hinge and the amount it will be sitting up on the left side. Clamp your
instrument panel in place. Take a scribe and trace a scribe line from the
top of the canopy frame bow on to the instrument panel. If you cut your panel
along this line or slightly under the line you should get a nice tight fit.
It worked well for me. Good Luck Ryan Bendure RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Elevator skin: elongated holes |
<< I think the Boeing people call these rivets McDonald rivets, and the
Mc..... Bill
>>
McDonald Douglas called them tension head rivets. They have a smaller head
on the shear head rivets. (You can countersink .016 skins and have a hole
remaining. Ask Gil Alexander for this spec. :-) P.S. I've read the spec,
but don't remember the number.)
I don't know what Boeing/McDonnell Douglas will call them. :-)
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "robert hughes" <hawk(at)digisys.net> |
Subject: | Re: Aluminum bonding agent |
The Tri-State Wing Midwest RV-Ators Newsletter April 1995 (editor Jim
Cone jamescone(at)aol.com) page 4, contains the following:
["This next item comes from the Monitor Newsletter, Ron Wright,
Editor.
From the experience of sailplane designer Dick Schreder, who has
probably experimented more with at-home bonding than anyone else in the
homebuilt community; he writes, "When we first started using adhesive
bonding we quickly discovered that all of the products we tested were
too brittle, too weak, non-waterproof, or promoted corrosion. We
finally discovered Hysol Ea9410, and have not had any problems in the
ensuing thirteen years... I have about a thousand flying hours on a
prototype HP-18, which has bonded wings and tail surfaces. All control
surfaces are bonded with no rivets in ribs or trailing edges........."]
Sounds worth investigating, but there was no mention of the temperature
range characteristics for the bonded elements.
Hawkeye hawk(at)digisys.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Elevator skin: elongated holes |
<< Q1: How to fix this?
I did scan the archive on this topic; the consensus there seemed to be to
fill the hole with Bondo, but surely that won't be strong enough? My
inclination is to give up my OSH Grand Champion ambitions and drill and
dimple the holes for a 1/8" flush rivet. Are there any implications
regarding stiffness, oilcanning, etc with either of these fixes?
(snip)
Frank.
>>
You don't need to give up your OSH Grand Champion ambitions.
What you need is a NAS 1097AD4 rivet. It is a 1/8" dia. rivet with the 3/32"
dia. rivet head.
Once you have the rivets in hand, just drill the existing dimpled holes with
a #30 drill, insert the NAS 1097 rivet, and set.
The NAS 1097AD3 rivets make riveting nutplates with flush rivets very simple,
also.
You can countersink .025 thick aluminum and still have a hole remaining.
(Ask Gil Alexander has the mil spec on this. :-) )
Only you, and the rv-list, will know where the !097 rivets are located.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Wingtip lights |
<< I am looking for advice on how to mount the position lights on the
wingtips for a 6A. Any photos, drawings, etc. >>
If you're talking about a strobe/nav combo, the lens & instructions from
Cheif a/c is a good looking and LEGAL setup. Not cheap, tho ($75 or so for
the lens & screws & nutplates), but the instructions on how to cast the
bulkheads are good. The white/blue Rocket on Hovan's web page has these
installed.
Of course, if you're a speed demon (like Dave Anders), you'll have to wait
for the new style tips to be put into full production. Tho not from Van's,
these will come with lenses, and the nav/strobe/landing light bulkheads will
already be cast in.
Directions for mounting the nav/strobe/position is sold with the "hump" sold
by Van's.
I'm still selling strobe/nav or strobe/nav/position light kits for below
market prices, if you need them.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Long range fuel tanks |
<< Yes. I'm also thinking about an external 'hard point' under the fuselage,
to
which I could attach a fuel tank or a luggage pod (to carry skis). You might
also want to check out the Harmon Rocket guys; I was told they use extra
tankage. >>
Fellas:
The Rocket carries about 21.5 US gal per side- not a big enough change to
mess with, IMHO. I still think Claudio's 4 tank method is the best, most
practical, and best looking. You could make the outer tanks smaller, if
desired. Check your own CG calculations with this added weight.
The tank/hard point under the fuse would subject the tank to a bunch of heat,
oil mist, and exhaust gas deposits. Bleah. And, consider the drag.
Just don't forget to put in a relief tube.
Check Six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
Subject: | Re: 0-360's With No Fuel Priming Systems |
>>Would some one who has not installed a fuel primer system on an 0-360 tell me
>>how well does the engine start and if there are any problems (such as cold
>>weather starts)?
>>
>>Thanks in advance for your help
>>
>>Ron Caldwell
>>74504.1365(at)compuserve.com
>>RV6A N655RV- Reserved
>
Ron :
One other trick.... after you rotate the engine and pump the throttle like
others have mentioned, bring the throttle all the way back. That closes the
throttle plate and acts like a choke. If the engine hasn't fired by then it
probably will. I've never had a problem in 2 1/2 years and numerous cool
starts. (If it's really cold, preheat it, your engine will thank you)
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying 0-360
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com> |
Joe,
Waiting till the canopy is ready to fit to cut the instrument panel sounds
like a really good idea to me. I've build two 4's and had a heck of a
time with both canopys. Next time I'm going to try the method you
described above. I wish I had read that and understood it! :-0!
of course you'll need to put off the top deck too but I can't see that
is any problem.
Dan Boudro
RV-4 N9167Z
Albuquerque, NM
dboudro(at)nmia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rob Hatwell <hatters(at)overvne.demon.co.uk> |
Subject: | RV4 Builder 3181 |
Dear RV Group
Can you please let me know how I can get all the info from the net on RV
related news groups.
Happy New Year
--
Rob Hatwell
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Brake Pedals, but beware! |
From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Bill,
It's interesting to see that you were able to control the ground
tracking during the landing. I assume this was done on a LONG runway as
you wouldn't have been able to do much with the brakes. Can you elaborate
on your experience?
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
**** Snip ****
>Even the -6A need those brakes. Returning from S-N-F one year, the
left
>brake went out on the -6A. When we landed for gas, all of our turns
were
>to the right, sometimes 270 degrees just to make a 90 degree turn to
the
>left. Sometimes you just made a 360 in the middle of a taxiway just to
get
>back in the middle of a taxiway. We fixed the problem before we
proceeded.
>Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: 0-360's With No Fuel Priming Systems |
53,55,57,59,61,63-71
From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Listers:
During the warm months here on the East Coast & in the New England
area, primers are not necessary. One or two pumps of the throttle always
starts the engine. But as soon as it starts getting cold, Throttle pumped
starts become increasingly harder as the temperatures go down, and the
risk factor of a carb fire increases.
If I pre-heat the engine in cold weather, throttle pumped starts are
easier. During the winter months, I do use a tanis heating pad on the
engine, with covers over the cowl, inside a hanger. Throttle pumped
starts work very well under these conditions, even when its near zero
outside.
The times I really must use the primer is when I've traveled away from
the hanger on cold days and let the plane sit for a while. Even though I
insert cowl plugs to help retain the engine heat, after sitting 8 Hrs out
in zero degree weather, the primer MUST be used to start the engine.
While some may argue that throttle pumped starts under these are
possible, I would add that they are also very hard on the engine.
Like a lot of other items, installation of a primer is optional
dependent upon where you plan to fly....... and what you expect to happen
when you aren't where you normally fly..... Installation of a Primer now
will certainly help you out the one time you get stuck out in the
cold.......
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV O-320-D1A (160HP)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>>I don't know if there is any real difference between your 0-360 and my
0-320
>>high compression 160 H.P. but I did not install a primer and my engine
starts
>>just fine, even in 15 degree weather. I decided to try it first and see
how
>>it worked without one and I am glad I did. I figured I could always add
one
>>later if it were necessary. I do have a accelerator pump on my carb.
>and I
>>think that helps; the only thing I try to keep in mind is if the engine
back
>>fires there is a chance for a carb. fire if fuel from the accelerator
is
>>dumped in the air box from excessive throttle pumping while trying to
start
>>the engine.
>>Chris May
>>RV-4 N595CM.
>
**** SNIP ****
>Putting the fire possibility (which is real) aside, most of us do not
have
>primers or if we do, do not use them all that much. Most of us will
not
>admit it, but we hit the throttle with a squirt before the engine
turns.
>But there is that remote possibility. Of course, I've only had one
line on
>my engine break, and that was the manifold pressure line (same as a
primer
>line) and that would have pumped fuel over my engine if it had been a
primerline.
>In conclusion, keep it simple. If you need it, you can always add it
>later as Chris stated. Bill
>Bill
>RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
>flying hours.
>These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
>position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: RV-4 C.G. & empty weight comparison |
My 4 was 1030 lbs at 60.48 inches with the Sensenich metal prop. No problem
with c.g. and up to a 220 lber in back. It may seem heavy in comparison to
others, but I often wonder if people weigh their airplanes before paint and
all radio installations are complete. I've been flying it for over 3 years
now and as much as I respect this aircrafts two up performance I much prefer
using a single seat.
Wrgway
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Long range fuel tanks |
I have a friend based at Old Bridge airport in NJ, Claddio Tonnino who has
made such an installation. You might try reaching him through the airport.
Wrgway
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Sloshing Compound Removal?? |
Hi All,
A RV-3 fuselage tank was sloshed with the Randolph non-drying slosh that AS&S
sells. Does anyone know what to use to clean this out of the tank??? It
really doesn't dry. And they now caution that it shouldn't be used in
aircraft.
This is an early RV-3 airframe that hasn't been finished, yet.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop 2 blade VP Prop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
Lyc. O-290 Ivoprop 3 blade variable pitch (VP) prop RV-3
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Long range fuel tanks |
<< The tank/hard point under the fuse would subject the tank to a bunch of
heat,
oil mist, and exhaust gas deposits. Bleah. And, consider the drag.
(snip)
Check Six!
Mark >>
Just for reference, an extrenal store has a Coeffecient of Drag (Cd) of .25,
the fuselage Cd is around .1 and the wing Cd is around .01. It will be the
dirtiest part of the plane, even without the oil mist and exhaust deposits.
How about adding a header tank between the firewall and instrument panel??
The basic design for the RV-3 had THE TANK there.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
Lyc. O-290 Ivoprop RV-3 (48 gallons usable?? Fuselage and wing tanks)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
Subject: | Re: Aluminum bonding agent |
> We finally discovered Hysol Ea9410, and have not had any problems in the
>ensuing thirteen years... I have about a thousand flying hours on a
>prototype HP-18, which has bonded wings and tail surfaces. All control
>surfaces are bonded with no rivets in ribs or trailing edges.
Back a few years ago when I was trying to understand composites with the
idea of building a pressurized "tupperware" 4 place, I attended a couple of
courses at Abaris Training one of which was on composite bonding. Great
course. We spent a week building and bonding samples of various materials
including a lot of aluminum bonds to aluminum, steel, graphite, kevlar etc.
etc. We built em using several different adhesives and prep methods and
them broke em - testing them in both shear and peel strength. The Hysol
products were clear winners. A lot of them are available in small already
measured plastic packages like the ketchup you get with your fries. All you
have to do is break the barrier between the two components knead the
package for a minute to thoroughly mix it and cut the corner off and use
it. No messy mixing and clean-up.
My notes are buried somewhere in the garage but, if you would give Mike
Hoke a call @ (800) 638-8441 he can probably put you on the right stuff..
By now, he should be the worlds foremost authority. I took his class a few
years ago and he has been running at least two a year since. He should have
tons of test data.
BTW: The best prep was to clean with a good solvent (MEK or Acetone) wipe
clean and then sand. No cleaning step after sanding - just wipe the dust
with a clean cloth. That is contrary to what most procedures tell you. They
usually want to use a solvent after sanding. It is also very important to
wipe the surface dry with a clean rag after using the solvent. If you don't
all of the contaminates that were dissolved by the solvent are redeposited
when the solvent evaporates. The key to a good bond is cleanliness. You
even have to be careful of airborne particles. The slightest bit of residue
from using a silicone spray or other aerosol can ruin a bond.
How about a totally bonded wing on your next RV.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RUSS_NICHOLS(at)fire.ca.gov (RUSS NICHOLS) |
Subject: | Elevator skin: elongated holes |
Frank et al,
Q1: How to fix this (oversized holes)?
A1: I had a similar problem. Dimpled a hole with the die not quite
seated. Consequently, enlogated too much for a 3/32" rivet. I
drilled it out and used a 1/8" rivet. Mine was on the bottom of the
elevator. You have to look pretty closely to see that 1 bigger
rivet.
Q2: How did everyone else dimple those difficult holes near the TE?
A2: I used the C-frame to dimple up to the last or 2nd to last hole.
For the holes closet to the bend, I used the pop-rivet dimpler
available from Avery. Easy to use and does a good job.
Good luck,
Russ
russ_nichols(at)fire.ca.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV-6A accident |
>Over the holidays the local news had a report of an experimental airplane
>crash in our local mountains (San Diego, Ca.). Later reports had the
>airplane as an RV-6 belonging to Jerry Farhat. I met Jerry once this past
>fall at a Chapter 14 get together while he was still flying off his hours.
>Both he and his wife were killed in the crash.
>
>The news people speculated that the crash was due to weather (front passing
>thru with lots of rain and wind). This area is known to be dangerous in bad
>weather; there have been 2 other fatal crashes in these mountains in the
>past year.
Mike:
I don't know much more than what you have already said, but I did talk to
Frank? Coast Aviation (MYF) the next day ( the day of the mid-air) and he
said that Jerry was pushing it, trying to get home from Laughlin and
apparently picked up some ice. He was talking to SoCal at the time, but
Frank did not know if had filed IFR or even had an instrument rating. He
had evidently had two wx briefings which had advised him not to try it and
he elected to go anyway. It sure was not any fault of the airplane.
His brother was killed pushing his luck trying to get back to MYF in a
Mooney 231 about 5 years ago. Must run in the family.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "garrett v. smith" <blueskyman(at)msn.com> |
Hi All:
I have been flying commercially for 10 years now and have lost a number of
friends and colleagues to accidents, as well as flown Medevacs with accident
survivors aboard. Never,and I mean never, does it fail to move me when a
fellow
aviator is lost, especially at this time of year.
Ladies and Gentlemen, out of respect for the families, leave the speculation
to the Accident Investigators. The Media does us all a disservice by adding
their
own opinion to an accident investigation, lets not help them. " Learn from the
mistakes of others, you won't live long enough to make them all yourself!"
All the Best in 1997, Safe Flying.
Garrett Smith
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com |
Subject: | Be Carefull Out there |
These kind of reports from NTSB really make me feel sad
so lets be carefull out there when thinking of flying our
RV's in hard IFR.
NTSB Identification: LAX97LA071
Accident occurred DEC-22-96 at JULIAN, CA
Aircraft: FARHAT RV6A, registration: N961CP
Injuries: 2 Fatal.
On December 22, 1996, at 1325 Pacific standard time, a
homebuilt experimental Farhat RV6A airplane, N961CP,
collided with mountainous terrain near Julian, California,
after encountering severe turbulence and icing conditions.
The aircraft was on an IFR flight plan and clearance from
Bullhead City, Arizona, to San Diego, California. Instrument
meteorological conditions prevailed at the accident site.
The aircraft was destroyed in the collision sequence and the
certificated private pilot and one passenger sustained fatal
injuries. The flight departed Bullhead City at 1215. Preliminary
review of FAA records disclosed that the pilot received two
preflight weather briefings and was advised of SIGMETS for
icing conditions and moderate to severe turbulence.
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First Flight July 14,1989
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
Subject: | Re: Aluminum bonding agent |
A dozen years ago there was a pretty little kit called the Moni. All metal
with a bonded wing. The supplied bonding agent was made by Hysol although I
dont recall the specific type. There were some problems with delamination,
most likely due to prep/improper usage, and John Monnet subsequently
requested all builders to retrofit rivets to the wings.
There is a web site for the Moni which includes some pireps. One of those
describes the in-flight delamination and crash of one of these airplanes.
Its some pretty scary reading.
I still love the Moni design and would probably build one if they were
still available, modifying the construction somewhat to reflect what I have
learned building the RV.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>How about a totally bonded wing on your next RV.
>
>
>
>
>John Top
>Phone: (619) 549-3556
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV-6A accident |
>He
>had evidently had two wx briefings which had advised him not to try it and
>he elected to go anyway. It sure was not any fault of the airplane.
>
>His brother was killed pushing his luck trying to get back to MYF in a
>Mooney 231 about 5 years ago. Must run in the family.
>
>John Top
This same storm took the lives of four other people from the southern
california area. And, until official reports state otherwise it appears for
the same reason. Pushing it.
Let's be real careful out there. Landing and Motel 6'ing it is better than
the other 6' option.
Have a safe and happy new year!
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q project:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker
(last update 12/23/96 - Oshkosh '96 RV pictures)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
Subject: | Re: Elevator skin: elongated holes |
>>>Dimpling my right elevator skin, I've stretched two of the stiffener holes.
>>>One is the nearest to the TE on the top (arghh), the other is the second
>>>from the TE on the bottom. The holes are both large enough to see round the
>>>edge of a 3/32" rivet that's in the correct hole.
>>Simple solution for this. Merely drill the holes out to 1/8" and use the
>>NAS1097AD-4-X rivets. This rivet has an 1/8" shank and the factory head is
>>the same size as the 3/32" rivet.
Thanks to all who have suggested the "Oops" rivets. However, I guess I
didn't make it clear enough. These holes are both stretched a *lot*, maybe
as much as an extra 3/32" towards the TE. When a 3/32" rivet is in the
correct part of the hole, the stretched part of the hole is still visible.
Therefore using a rivet with the same size head isn't going to fix it.
Unless Bondo (or something similar) is strong enough, I'm going to have to
go to a rivet with a larger head.
Happy New year to everyone,
Frank (looking forward to the day when we can glue the stiffeners to the
skins. :-)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | kevin lane <kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com> |
Subject: | wire-feed welding |
I own a gasless(flux core) wire feed welder which I use on mild steel
tubing. Could this unit be used to weld 4130 if I were to build my own
tilt-up latch mechanism? kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
Subject: | Re: Long range fuel tanks |
>> The tank/hard point under the fuse would subject the tank to a bunch of
>> heat, oil mist, and exhaust gas deposits. Bleah. And, consider the drag.
>
>Just for reference, an extrenal store has a Coeffecient of Drag (Cd) of .25,
>the fuselage Cd is around .1 and the wing Cd is around .01. It will be the
>dirtiest part of the plane, even without the oil mist and exhaust deposits.
My thinking (what little I've done on this so far) was that the area under
the fuselage is going to be aerodynamically dirty anyway, so adding another
structure there wouldn't be too bad. Either make it a long cylindrical shape
(with consequent CG issues) or fair it into the bottom of the fuselage somehow.
Hadn't thought of the exhaust heat issue! *My* engine won't be allowed to
spit out oil. :-)
>How about adding a header tank between the firewall and instrument panel??
> The basic design for the RV-3 had THE TANK there.
Definitely an option, although I don't like the idea of fuel and/or fumes in
the cockpit area.
Another option: I believe Jon Johansen used the wingtips to hold fuel.
Frank.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Morristec(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics + FREE OFFER REPEATED |
Bravo!
This Mil spec is the one that the structural allowables that all military
airplanes are designed to. Mil handbook 5 which is the aeronautical
structural engineers Bible for over 40 years refers to Mil-R-47196A as the
basis of acceptable riveting. The FAA just extracted some of the info from
the Mil standard, and forgot to give us the rest.
I doubt that you have a problem.
Dan Morris
A&P, IA, FAA DER- been doing this for a while...
Morristec(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: RV-6A accident |
The preliminary NTSB report lists the aircraft as a FARHAT RV-6A N961CP,
colliding with mountainous terrain near Julian, CA, on Dec22 at 1325PST,
after encountering severe turbulence and icing conditions. The aircraft was
on an IFR flight plan enroute from Bullhead City, AZ to San Diego, CA. IMC
prevailed at the accident site. The certificated private pilot and passenger
were killed. Preliminary review of FAA records indicate the pilot received
two weather briefings, and was advised of SIGMETS for icing and moderate to
severe turbulence.
Bill Mahoney
RV-6 N747W
Sherman, CT
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics |
<<
This is not as stupid as it sounds.
I have read that 'over driving' rivets can lead to intergranular
corrosion in the rivets. I suspect that is what this inspector was
being concerned about.
I think this takes years to happen (the intergranual corrosion).
You don't want to over drive the rivets.
>>
Could I have the reference to the intergranular corrosion problem. My
experience is that IG is a problem due to improper heat treatment and not
usually found in the alloys that are used in rivets.
a chemical etching of the aluminum - Magnifing glass or not. And please
don't etch a rivet on the airplane. Please remove said rivet from said
airplane first in order to avoid other kinds of corrosion of the airplane.
What you worry about with "overdriving" is the chance that you have yielded
the metal to the point that there is a fracture (crack) under the head. The
1&1/2 diameters etc. are within easily met limits that will avoid a fracture.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: RV-6A accident |
Any accident is a terrible tragedy. We are all guilty of poor judgment at
one time or another. The pilot of the RV made a decision and paid with his
life. It is not for us to sit and judge hm, but instead to learn from the
mistake that he made. Let's everyone have a safe and happy New Year.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Aluminum bonding agent |
I have an HP-18 I built in 76- 81 and still fly it. It was tied down at a
contest with 60 other gliders when an drunk, PCP laced, naked driver being
chased by cops hit it from the rear at 2:30 A.M. Threw the glider over the
car and destroyed all the flaps and ailerons on one side.
The flaps are just two skins, bonded with EA9410, about 4' long, mag. ribs at
each end and foam ribs between. The one he hit with the car was debonded
over about 6" , the rest just twisted beyond use. The 9410 held under very
high shear loads.
The stuff you buy now is not the same, mine had asbestos as the filler
material, the current EA 9410 uses a different filler. I rebuilt the glider
with the new stuff, and am sure it is just as good.
If you dont clean the aluminum well, remove any oxidation, and bond it within
about 1 hour of cleaning, the stuff will fail miserably. Some HP-18s have
suffered complete debonding of their wing skins. The ones done correctly
will last forever.
Bruce Patton
Almost finished with cowl
(I HATE FIBERGLASS !!!!)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg) |
Subject: | Re: Penguin Humor & Canopy Non-Humor |
>>Thought I would share some humor to show I still have a sense of it after
>>cracking my canopy while drilling it for attachment rivets. With Van's
>>quoting me $480 for a new one (plus crating and shipping, of course) I
>>will come up with some cosmetic bandaid to hide my 3 inch nightmare.
>>
>>In the meantime, wish everyone on the list a Merry Christmas!
>>
>>Mike Kukulski
>>
>>RV-4 N96MK
>>kukulski(at)highfiber.com
>>Albuquerque, NM
Mike,
Depending on where the crack is exactly, out of the way is a nice place,
stop drill it. Then cover it with
a nice EAA sticker. Several RV's up here in Colorado have EAA stickers on
their canopy. Kinda like
pilot's in WWI did to the fabric when the Hun shot a hole into the plane.
Stiched an Iron cross over the
hole. The EAA sticker is now your medal that you built the plane and that
you too are human.
Happy New Year,
Doug Bloomberg
RV-6A N399DB
Denver, CO
dougb(at)mail.diac.com (home)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dougb(at)mail.diac.com (Doug Bloomberg) |
Subject: | Re: flap position indicator |
At 12:22 AM 12/28/96, aol.com!Vanremog(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
><< Seems that a flap position indicator would be a worthwile instrument with
> electric flaps.
>
Mas Yoshida's RV-6 has a simple but effective flap indicator. He marked the
inboard rib of the
ailerons (pilots side) with 10,20,30,40 degree marks. You lower the flaps,
the ol' one thousand one,
one thousand two, one thousand three, etc. Look out and the flaps are in
the general area after a few
tries you have it close enough. But if you are fussy, buy a sliding
potentiometer from Digi-Key and
connect it to a meter movement or DVM calibrate the thing and you have a
panel instrument. Bob Knuckles
book should have the info needed to build one. But simple lines don't
fail you, construction time is nill,
design time even less, weight is low, and ya cannot beat the cost.
Happy New Year <:^)
Doug Bloomberg
RV-6A N399DB
Denver, CO
dougb(at)mail.diac.com (home)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Paul Osterman III" <PineRanch(at)msn.com> |
Subject: | Pre-punched airleron skins/6A |
Listers:
I'm building the 6A with the pre-punched wing skins and the B.A.C. Fast Build
Wing Kit. Today I discovered that the pre-punched hole spacing in the skin
for the stiffeners and the pre-punched holes in the stiffeners themselves do
not match.
Although the plans call out a 1 1/4" spacing, Van's vendor punched the holes
at 1 5/16ths. The stiffeners from B.A.C. are punched correctly at 1 1/4".
Has anybody else run into this problem? Aside from knowing that either the
skins or the stiffeners need to be replaced before I can continue, any
thoughts...?
Paul Osterman
RV6A
Guess I'll be working on the flaps tomorrow
Anderson, Ca
PineRanch(at)msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | lsmith(at)coastalnet.com (Louis E. Smith Jr.) |
Subject: | San Antonio builders |
Hello,
I will be in San Antonio Jan. 5th through 10th. Anyone that would like a
hand with their project or needs someone to buck rivets, please respond to
me by e-mail as I would be glad to lend a hand if needed.
Regards,
Louis Smith
lsmith(at)coastalnet.com
RV-8 #80126 wings
RV-4 #2844 N102LS sold
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
Subject: | Re: Round and round you go!! |
>Bill,
>
> It's interesting to see that you were able to control the ground
>tracking during the landing. I assume this was done on a LONG runway as
>you wouldn't have been able to do much with the brakes. Can you elaborate
>on your experience?
>
>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
>wstucklen1(at)juno.com
>
>
> writes:
> **** Snip ****
>>Even the -6A need those brakes. Returning from S-N-F one year, the
>left
>>brake went out on the -6A. When we landed for gas, all of our turns
>were
>>to the right, sometimes 270 degrees just to make a 90 degree turn to
>the
>>left. Sometimes you just made a 360 in the middle of a taxiway just to
>get
>>back in the middle of a taxiway. We fixed the problem before we
>proceeded.
>>Bill
Fred, It was a paved runway and we did not use that much (although it was
not a short landing). I think we turned off about mid-point. The rudder is
very effective as long as the speed is up, and that is the case on landing.
It wasn't until we slowed down that we started drifting off to one side.
The rest is history. Just a few 270 and 360 degree turns and we were at the
FBO. We had worn out a set of brake pads at S-N-F, and the puck in the
brake extended out so far that the o-ring went past the edge of the
cylinder, and the fluid shot out of the cylinder. We got a new set of
pads, but the FBO did not have another o-ring which was slightly damaged.
We made it home, but the brakes were leaking a little fluid until we
replaced the o-ring. Isn't much more to tell! Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: RST products |
Gil Alexander wrote:
<< NOTE: when I last checked (about 3 weeks ago), the newly redesigned Audio
Panel with Intercom kit was not quite ready for sale. I managed to speak to
the engineer designing it, and hopefully got the final design to be just
less than 6 inches deep for those of us building tip-up RV-6s and not
wishing to hack too much out of the F668 bulkhead.
>>
GilL: FWIW I hacked my 668 to pieces for the avionics and instruments; it
looks like swiss cheese. I don't think it's structural anyway, really. BTW,
the old style RST audio panel is the one piece I'm sure DIDN'T require a
cutoutin the 668 since it is only about 5-7/8" deep behind the front panel
: -)
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)AOL.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: RST products |
<< Bill... You mention that you are using the audio panel for a ham rig.
Just a question, what are you using for an antenna. I have mounted 2
mtr and 440 mhz whips on inspection plates in the past. That way they
could be replaced easily. I'm looking to do something more "permenant"
in the future. Any ideas???
Ron Butcher - AA6D
Turlock, California >>
I used copper foil dipoles inside the wingtips, one cut for 121 MHz and the
other for 146 MHz. The foil came from RST, by the way. SWR looks good "on
the bench" attached to the wing but with the wing not on the fuselage. I
suspect they will detune a bit in service configuration but hopefully not too
much.
I hope this doesn't start a thread about polarization. IMHO, losses from
cross polarization are so slight as to be ignored completely when you are
operating from thousands of feet AGL. Even a rubber duck works great from up
there, and by rotating the handheld 90 degrees you can test for fading
yourself.
Bill Boyd N4DLN
SportAV8R(at)AOL.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
IMHO, losses from cross polarization are so slight as to be ignored
completely when you are
operating from thousands of feet AGL
Besides who knows what polarization the antenna actually sees after the
signal has been reflected off the ground, the skin of the aircraft and a
spinning propellar. You can safely assume that it is random. End of thread.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
Is there a universal head equivalent to the NAS 1097AD-4 "Oops Rivet" If so
where can one find them.
And, while we are on the subject does anyone know of a source for Alcoa
Crown flus rivets?
BTW; Boeing/MacDac must call them Lockheed Martin rivets now, or more
properly Lockheed Martin Loral (Lomoral) rivets
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: wire-feed welding |
>I own a gasless(flux core) wire feed welder which I use on mild steel
>tubing. Could this unit be used to weld 4130 if I were to build my own
>tilt-up latch mechanism? kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com
>
Kevin;
For what it's worth, I used a wire welder (that has flux in the wire) to
weld the wedges that Vans added to the brake pedals. It seems to have done
fine, but be cautioned, I did not use a caliper to check the thickness, nor
did I do a molecular structure test of the resulting bond :-). But I have
put a good deal of pressure with my size tens, and it has lasted for 3 years
of use. I believe the metal is 4130.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Long range fuel tanks |
<< Another option: I believe Jon Johansen used the wingtips to hold fuel.
>>
Jon Johansen does have wingtip tanks and a back seat full of tank also.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Spring Loading of Throttle and Mixture |
Happy New Year to all and since it's a new year, I have a new thread. My
resolution is to have my RV-6A O-360 c/s slider flying by late Spring.
This posting is just to initiate a casual poll of builders to determine the
value of spring loading the throttle, mixture and maybe alternate air levers.
A friend of mine with a new RV-4 is doing this to his plane because he has
heard random reports of broken control cables. Apparently the theory is that
if any one of the three cables were to break in flight, the throttle would go
full open, the mixture full rich and carb heat full on, respectively. Then
the pilot could use other controls and the mag switch to cut power as needed
to get the craft safely back on the ground.
How real of a problem is this and how many of you have bothered to install
such features? Thanks in advance.
-Gary VanRemortel
N1GV reserved, "heaven in '97" is my motto (figuratively speaking, of
course!)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | James Cimino <jcimino1(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: Elevator skin: elongated holes |
I bought a kit early-on in the construction of my tail. It consists of the
repair type rivets everyone is talking about. (wider shank, same size head)
This kit has all different sizes, and I think it was around $20.00 from
Avery. I hear it does a fantastic job, (not that I've needed to use it) I
did drill a few holes over-sized deliberately just to try them out though. :)
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn80039
>Hi all,
>A bit of advice, if you please:
>
>Dimpling my right elevator skin, I've stretched two of the stiffener holes.
>One is the nearest to the TE on the top (arghh), the other is the second
>from the TE on the bottom. The holes are both large enough to see round the
>edge of a 3/32" rivet that's in the correct hole.
>
>Q1: How to fix this?
>
>I did scan the archive on this topic; the consensus there seemed to be to
>fill the hole with Bondo, but surely that won't be strong enough? My
>inclination is to give up my OSH Grand Champion ambitions and drill and
>dimple the holes for a 1/8" flush rivet. Are there any implications
>regarding stiffness, oilcanning, etc with either of these fixes?
>
>Q2: How did everyone else dimple those difficult holes near the TE?
>
>The initial problem was that when I bent the top skin back enough to get the
>Avery C-tool and hammer in, the bottom skin flexed back, especially when I
>was dimpling the hole nearest the TE. This caused the edge of the dimple die
>to be outlined in the skin, as I found out on my rudder :-(. (On the plus
>side, I found I could easily press these marks out with finger pressure). On
>the other side of the rudder, and on the right elevator, I used foam rubber
>squabs provide more support to the skin from underneath, and to press down
>on it from above, thus holding it flat. That worked well on the rudder; I'm
>not sure why things went wrong on the elevator. The problem (I think) was
>that the squabs underneath partially lifted the skin off the male dimple
>die, allowing it to move and elongate the holes.
>
>Frank.
>--
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
>Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
>Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
>PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
>http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
Subject: | Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics |
You wrote:
>Well, I had the local EAA multiple-RV-building guru inspect my wing
>spars last night...
First, I suggest that you and the guru jointly get on the phone with
someone at Van's. If ther's a problem with your rivets, Van's will say so.
If there is NO problem, let the guru hear it for himself.
Second, I'm looking at my copy of "Standard Aircraft Handbook", and it
clearly shows the 1.5D minimum diameter measurement for the shop head of
the rivet being measured at the fattest part of the shop head.
Third, you said:
>he pulled out a magnifying glass and took a look at the
>"grain" structure of the shop heads. He believes that hitting
>a rivet with a hammer (I used a 3 lb hammer and the C-Frame tool
>as shown in George's videos) causes the grains in the metal to
>form improperly
Suppose you had used a rivet gun? How many times does he think the rivet
gun hits the rivet?
Jeez. I think you should find a different guru.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
Fabricating canopy skirts
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
Subject: | Re: Aluminum bonding agent |
Bill:
>we use pro-seal for everything, including bonding things to the
>firewall. Of course, after you have used it you will know I refer to it as
>"Black Death"!
Can you give us any insight why "Fuel Tank Sealant" has replaced Pro-Seal
in the Accessory Catalog?
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Wingtip lights |
A suggestion !
When mounting the wingtip lights mount them in a location such that if
you ever have to remove your aileron push pull tubes you can remove the
wingtip lights and pull the tubes out the hole.
Ted French
rv-6A flying 60+ hours
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
Subject: | Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics |
VNET.IBM.COM!sheinlein(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Well, I had the local EAA multiple-RV-building guru inspect my wing
> spars last night and he scared the crap outta me on two points.
>
> 2. Next, he pulled out a magnifying glass and took a look at the
> "grain" structure of the shop heads. He believes that hitting
> a rivet with a hammer (I used a 3 lb hammer and the C-Frame tool
> as shown in George's videos) causes the grains in the metal to
> form improperly. sigh... Basically, he said I should have used
> a pneumatic squeezer to form the shop head in one shot. Not in
> 3 or 4 separate whacks.
>
> Q: Any comments on setting #6 rivets with a hammer and how it
> might adversely affect the quality of the rivet?
> My metallurgy background is limited to one undergrad course 13 years
ago so I'm no expert, but the highest strength metal parts are achieved
by forging - which can be either a hammering or a squeezing process.
Cold forging is used to form the round or flush heads on rivets, and the
heads on bolts, so I would think you could form a shop head the same way.
I think the degree and rate of heating and cooling of the part is what
determines the final grain size, whereas the grain shape is determined by
the method used to form the metal, eg. forging, casting, machining. I
don't think it matters much to grain shape whether the forging was by
squeezing or striking. If the metal is soft enough to be formed at room
temperature (cold forging), the heating & cooling rates and the altering
of grain size are not a factor.
If you want an expert's opinion you might check with the company(s)
producing the rivets or with a materials engineering prof at your local
university.
Bob Reiff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
Subject: | Re: Aluminum bonding agent |
Finn Lassen wrote:
>
> Can anyone recommend an aluminum to aluminum bonding agent (adhesive,
> glue...). It should be heat resistant up to maybe 200 F. I'm
> manufacturing my rotary engine mounting plate, reinforced with T6
> angles along the sides. In addition to riveting/bolting, I'd like the
> added strength of also bonding the angles to the plate.
>
> Finn
>
> finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com
The Grumman Tiger, Cheetah, and Lynx used an aluminum bonded construction
instead of rivets. You might check with a Grumman dealer or the American
Yankee Association to find out what they used.
Bob Reiff, RV4 in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
Subject: | Re: 0-360's With No Fuel Priming Systems |
> (If it's really cold, preheat it, your engine will thank you)
>
> Regards:
> Rusty Gossard
> N47RG RV-4 Flying 0-360
> Regards:
> Rusty Gossard
> N47RG RV-4 Flying
I was waiting for someone to bring that up.
The Cessna I'm forced to fly until my good plane is done has a primer but
I never use it. I just pump the throttle a couple of times while
cranking. In winter, preheat and you won't need to prime.
Bob Reiff, RV4 in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Spring Loading of Throttle and Mixture |
<< How real of a problem is this and how many of you have bothered to install
such features? Thanks in advance.
-Gary VanRemortel
N1GV reserved, "heaven in '97" is my motto (figuratively speaking, of
course!)
vanremog(at)aol.com
>>
First, the LOM engine in my RV-3 is NOT certified by the FAA.
BTW, Happy New Year everyone.
The LOM engine has a built-in spring on the throttle towards full throttle.
There are discrete detents for the mixture control, which hold the existing
position. (This lever is used to richen the mixture with altitude, but I
think of it as a manual over-ride for the automatic mixture system.)
No provisions have been provided for alternate air or heat. (Maybe they
think the slice and dice feature of the supercharger is enough??)
The exhaust pipes normally stick straight out the side of the cowl. This is
on the same side as the engine cylinder airbox. There may be a 3" long piece
of exhaust pipe inside the cowl, between the airbox and cowl exit hole. (I
picked up 10 mph by putting a 65 degree bend in the exhaust pipe as it exited
the cowl. I also get a very dirty left gear leg fairing. Yuk)
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, CA. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Long range fuel tanks |
<< Another option: I believe Jon Johansen used the wingtips to hold fuel.
>>
Jon Johansen does have wingtip tanks and a back seat full of tank also.
>>
I heard that Jon Johansen may also have had a forward fuselage tank between
the instrument panel and firewall.
Jim Ayers
LesDrag(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
Subject: | Re: Long range fuel tanks |
>>> The tank/hard point under the fuse would subject the tank to a bunch of
>>> heat, oil mist, and exhaust gas deposits. Bleah. And, consider the drag.
IMHO, an external hardpoint under fuselage/under wing FUEL tank is a mucho
bad idea. Yes, military hardware have them and they work well, but these
are DROP TANKS which can be jettisoned when not needed or if the thunder
stops. And, if you can't dump them fast enough, say a flameout during
takeoff, you punch out. Are you also putting in ejection seats so you don't
have to land on top of 5 gallons of avgas if something happens?? Yikes!!
Tony Bengalas wrote about this several months ago in Sport Aviation.
Just a thought.........
Michael
RV-4 232SQ
mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | WCannon313(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Pro-seal / Fuel Tank Sealant ? Black Death |
Since their has been a bit of discussion on that sticky black stuff recently,
I thought I would include the following info from a article I wrote for the
local RV builders newsletter recently. It will point you in the right
direction if you wish to find more info.
First, is a basic understanding of that black sticky stuff that Vans sends
us. It is the product of a variety of companies that meets the MIL-S-8802E
specification (sealing compound, temperature resistant, integral fuel tanks
and fuel cell cavities, high adhesion). It is commonly known as Pro-Seal, the
identical product is produced by both Chemseal and Courtalds (which is right
here in the Puget Sound area). What we actually get from Vans is MIL-S-8802E,
TYPE II, CLASS B-2 which can be deciphered with the following information:
TYPE I Chromate catalyst and is brown
TYPE II Manganese catalyst and is black, actually dark gray
CLASS A Low viscosity for applying with a brush
CLASS B Heavy low slump material for fay sealing between parts or creating
fillets
-1/2 Fast cure rate - one half hour work life at standard conditions
-2 Slower cure rate - 2 hours work life at standard conditions
Hope this helps some people.
E-mail me directly if you want more info.
Walt Cannon
wcannon313(at)aol.com
RV6 N36WC
50 Hours and prepping for paint
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | oil cooler mounting |
Vans recommends mounting oil cooler on firewall but gives no guidance in such
mounting. Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated.
Application RV-4, O-320 C/S, Rocky Mtn. 4-pipe exhaust
Cooler: Harrison sold by Vans
Reply to DkSJC(at)aol.com
thanks. Dan Helm, MT View, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Timothy W. Whitman" <71610.2013(at)CompuServe.COM> |
After getting the cowling and gear on my -6A, I found that I couldn't remove the
air filter without removing the nose gear leg. I had interference of the air box
with the leg and the little carved foam piece on the leg and there wasn't enough
room in the stackup to do anything else. The carved foam piece is per plans to
allow the lower cowl to drop some before moving forward past the spinner.
I called Van's and they said typically "make it fit". After staring at it and
measuring the amount the box must drop to clear the filter, and realizing there
is no way I could even sculpt the box to clear, my dear wife suggested that I
cut the air box in two. After laughing a while I realized that seems to be my
best option. Actually, I plan to just cut a removable quadrant to clear the
foam piece and attach it with some screws.
I can't see how this doesn't happen with all 6A's with O-320s. Anyone else seen
it?
Tim Whitman
sanding and filling fiberglass
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: ElectroAir Electronic Ignition |
Jim,
Thanks for the input. I'll call Klaus tomorrow.
Best Regards,
Wrgway
"Valerie's Nightmare"
RV-4 818WW
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Kamikaze pilot's flight gear |
Why does a kamikaze pilot wear a helmet!
N595CM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SteveRV6(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Kamikaze pilot's flight gear |
So he can hear the radio, then transmit "tora, tora, tora" ;)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen) |
Has anybody on the list had success with welding 6061-T6 using the
Henrob 2000 (or any oxy-acetylen torch)?
I'm trying to weld a short length of 1/8" thick tubing to 1/8"
thick angle. The material seems to go soft and deform before the rod
will bond with the material. What's the secret?
Finn
finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bud Newhall <bud(at)softcom.net> |
Subject: | Re: Welding 6061-T6 |
Finn Lassen wrote:
>
> Has anybody on the list had success with welding 6061-T6 using the
> Henrob 2000 (or any oxy-acetylen torch)?
The secret is to use a MIG or a TIG welder. Welding 6061 with a MIG is
quite easy. But be aware, the area heated by the welding will be quite
soft.
Bud
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: oil cooler mounting |
<< Vans recommends mounting oil cooler on firewall but gives no guidance in
such
mounting. Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. >>
Van's now has a mounting kit. Call them.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Stephen Jackson Soule <ssoule(at)vbimail.champlain.edu> |
Subject: | Re: Flap Hinge Pin |
Hello listers,
What is the accumulated wisdom about how best to insert the hinge pin
into the flap hinge? I am about ready to rivet the hinge to the
skin/flap brace. When I have it all clecoed up, I am at a loss to see
how I am going to get the hinge pin in and out after riveting. F.
Justice says that you cut out two eyes from the hinge in the middle and
insert and withdraw the hinge pins from the middle. Does this work?
How easy is it to live with this over the hours after the airplane is
flying? If you had it to do over again, how would you do it?
Steve, Huntington, Vermont
14 below yesterday, 75 in the shop
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
>After getting the cowling and gear on my -6A, I found that I couldn't
remove the
>air filter without removing the nose gear leg. I had interference of the
air box
>with the leg and the little carved foam piece on the leg and there wasn't
enough
>room in the stackup to do anything else. The carved foam piece is per plans to
>allow the lower cowl to drop some before moving forward past the spinner.
>
>I called Van's and they said typically "make it fit". After staring at it and
>measuring the amount the box must drop to clear the filter, and realizing there
>is no way I could even sculpt the box to clear, my dear wife suggested that I
>cut the air box in two. After laughing a while I realized that seems to be my
>best option. Actually, I plan to just cut a removable quadrant to clear the
>foam piece and attach it with some screws.
>
>I can't see how this doesn't happen with all 6A's with O-320s. Anyone else
seen
>it?
>
>Tim Whitman
>
>sanding and filling fiberglass
>
>
>
Tim,
I'm planning on removing the nose gear every tine the air box comes off.
The fuse has to be propped up and one bolt removed from the nose gear.
-Scott Gesele N506RV
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Flap Hinge Pin |
Steve;
>Justice says that you cut out two eyes from the hinge in the middle and
>insert and withdraw the hinge pins from the middle.
The RVator suggest the same.
>Does this work?
Yep
>How easy is it to live with this over the hours after the airplane is
>flying?
Must be easy, I haven't thought of it in 4 years 'til you asked.
>If you had it to do over again, how would you do it?
Same way unless something easier is found.
>14 below yesterday, 75 in the shop
Glad your wife didn't lock you out?
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Flap Hinge Pin |
Steve,
Another way is to drill a small hole in the in board aleron mount just a
little off center of the hinge. That way once the pin is in it will settle
off the hole and will not come out unless you redirect it to the hole. These
pins are tight and some times you need to hook them to a drill to turn them
in , this is not uncommon....keep up the good work....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
Subject: | Re: Flap Hinge Pin |
What is the accumulated wisdom about how best to insert the hinge pin
into the flap hinge? I am about ready to rivet the hinge to the
I used the split method. On one wing it was a piece of cake but the
other was very difficult, due to the not perfectly straight hinge line.
They should also be secured at the centre so they don't slide out. I
found this almost impossible so I made the pins just a little bit
longer than the hinges. I can now see the end of the pins (outboard
ends of flaps) during my preflight...none of the four have budged in 50
hours.
Another method is to drill a hole in the aileron bracket and insert the
whole pin from the aileron side, I've seen people put the pin in a
drill and work it in that way....a little oil and a nice taper would
help.
Ken
RV6A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
The carved foam piece is per plans to
allow the lower cowl to drop some before moving forward past the
spinner.
Isn't this piece purely for appearance? It may be just laziness but I
haven't put one on mine. I do have a gap about 2 inches long forward of
the leg on the lower cowl (in the slit for the leg). The only way you
see this is from underneath. When the weather improves here I'll
probably put a plate over it, soewhat like the one behind the leg.
Admittedly the transition from gear leg to bottom cowl is not as smooth.
Ken RV6A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | lsmith(at)coastalnet.com (Louis E. Smith Jr.) |
Subject: | Re: Flap Hinge Pin |
Steve,
On my RV-4, I drilled a small hole in the wing inboard aileron hinge. Just
slide the pin through the aileron hinge and into the flap piano hinge.
Works best with the aileron removed.
>Hello listers,
>
>What is the accumulated wisdom about how best to insert the hinge pin
>into the flap hinge?
>Steve, Huntington, Vermont
>14 below yesterday, 75 in the shop
>
>
Regards,
Louis Smith
lsmith(at)coastalnet.com
RV-8 #80126 wings
RV-4 #2844 N102LS sold
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
I didn't put the carved foam piece in for just this reason.....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>After getting the cowling and gear on my -6A, I found that I couldn't
remove the
>air filter without removing the nose gear leg. I had interference of the
air box
>with the leg and the little carved foam piece on the leg and there
wasn't enough
>room in the stackup to do anything else. The carved foam piece is per
plans to
>allow the lower cowl to drop some before moving forward past the
spinner.
>
>I called Van's and they said typically "make it fit". After staring at
it and
>measuring the amount the box must drop to clear the filter, and
realizing there
>is no way I could even sculpt the box to clear, my dear wife suggested
that I
>cut the air box in two. After laughing a while I realized that seems to
be my
>best option. Actually, I plan to just cut a removable quadrant to
clear the
>foam piece and attach it with some screws.
>
>I can't see how this doesn't happen with all 6A's with O-320s. Anyone
else seen
>it?
>
>Tim Whitman
>
>sanding and filling fiberglass
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
Subject: | Re: Spring Loading of Throttle and Mixture |
Gary, I am going to spring load the throttle and mixture. I hadn't actually
thought about the carb heat.
I am putting an oversize washer, with a hole drilled in it, to attach the
spring at each end.
There was some discussion on this before, but no on else seemed to be
enthused about it.
I am surprised that "fail safe" springing is not built into the carburetter.
John Cocker, also ready to fly in the Spring
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Chris Sargent" <sargentc(at)emh1.pa.net> |
Subject: | Re: Welding 6061-T6 |
Finn, About your question below-
> Has anybody on the list had success with welding 6061-T6 using the
> Henrob 2000 (or any oxy-acetylen torch)?
>
> I'm trying to weld a short length of 1/8" thick tubing to 1/8"
> thick angle. The material seems to go soft and deform before the rod
> will bond with the material. What's the secret?
Try using this technique. As you sense the material is just about to go
soft, bring in the rod and put 1/3 of the heat on the material and 2/3 of
the heat on the rod. This requires a different motion with the torch than
for other materials such as steel. If the material is still getting too
soft too quickly, run the torch a little longer up the rod. At the end of
the bond, aluminum requires more rod input to prevent the seam from melting
further. Put more heat on the rod as you approach the end of the material
and *push* more rod into the material as you bring the torch away.
Hope this helps, Chris Sargent sargentc(at)emh1.pa.net, Rv-8 someday
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BestBillO(at)aol.com |
I made the carved piece removeable with two tabs, two screws attaching it to
the gear. Makes removal of everything simple, and still looks good, filling
the gap, as well. Only way I could figure out to accomplish all.
Bill Orcutt
RV-6A, 200+ hours
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | kiwi(at)jetstream.net (Kiwi) |
Subject: | Not-so-basic riveting basics |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBF88B.39422780
I used my 20 ton hydraulic jack in the jig (of which some of the users =
received the plans) and squeezed them effortlessly. The shop heads were =
exactly the same as compaered to my friends Phlogiston spar. Try not to =
fart around hammering if you have devices, such as presses, available =
that make life easier and provide the user with much greater control =
over the forming of the shop head.
----------
From: =
VNET.IBM.COM!sheinlein(at)matronics.com[SMTP:VNET.IBM.COM!sheinlein(at)matronic=
s.com]
Sent: December 30, 1996 7:47 AM
Subject: RV-List: Not-so-basic riveting basics
Well, I had the local EAA multiple-RV-building guru inspect my wing
spars last night and he scared the crap outta me on two points.
I'd like to hear from anyone out on RV-list-land to see what you
think about this... especially from people who have built their
own spars.
1. Looking at the shop head of a rivet, you'll notice that it is a
perfect circle when you look at it straight-on. Now, look at it
from the side. It is a barrel shape (right)? When I measured
my shop heads, I did so with a gauge that has a slot cut in it.
(That's what we all use, right?) This really measures the fattest
part of the barrel. Well, the inspector used calipers and measured
the width of the shop head right at the base. This measurement
is really the narrowest part of the shop head (bottom of the barrel).
As a result, about 30 of my #6 rivets had shop heads that were not
fat enough!
Q: What is the proper way to measure a shop head???!!!
I really shouldn't be asking this question at this point :(
2. Next, he pulled out a magnifying glass and took a look at the
"grain" structure of the shop heads. He believes that hitting
a rivet with a hammer (I used a 3 lb hammer and the C-Frame tool
as shown in George's videos) causes the grains in the metal to
form improperly. sigh... Basically, he said I should have used
a pneumatic squeezer to form the shop head in one shot. Not in
3 or 4 separate whacks.
Q: Any comments on setting #6 rivets with a hammer and how it
might adversely affect the quality of the rivet?
I tried to save $900 by building my own spars, but now I can't help
but wonder if I did the right thing...
Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated!
Thanks everyone!
Stephen Heinlein
sheinlein(at)vnet.ibm.com
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BBF88B.39422780--
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Welding 6061-T6 |
Finn
You need an intense heat source to get a fast, concentrated heating at a very
localized area, the bonding point. A flame justs heat up a large area and
allows the whole area to slump. It has to do with the fact that aluminum
conducts heat real well and the flame doesn't heat the weld zone fast enough.
You need an arc. Take it to a welder that has a TIG welder and a lot of
experience.
Gene Francis
trying to fit a can-of-peas
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
If this gets posted twice my appologies. I have not seen it on the llist
and I sent it 2 days ago
>IMHO, losses from cross polarization are so slight as to be ignored
>completely when you are
>operating from thousands of feet AGL
Besides who knows what polarization the antenna actually sees after the
signal has been reflected offvariuos structures on the ground and the skin
of the aircraftin addition to a
spinning propellar. You can safely assume that it is random. End of thread.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
Subject: | Aluminum Bonding |
I aplologize once more if I am posting this twice. I have not seen it on
the list
> We finally discovered Hysol Ea9410, and have not had any problems in the
>ensuing thirteen years... I have about a thousand flying hours on a
>prototype HP-18, which has bonded wings and tail surfaces. All control
>surfaces are bonded with no rivets in ribs or trailing edges.
Back a few years ago when I was trying to understand composites with the
idea of building a pressurized "tupperware" 4 place, I attended a couple of
courses at Abaris Training one of which was on composite bonding. Great
course. We spent a week building and bonding samples of various materials
including a lot of aluminum bonds to aluminum, steel, graphite, kevlar etc.
etc. We built em using several different adhesives and prep methods and
them broke em - testing them in both shear and peel strength. The Hysol
products were clear winners. A lot of them are available in small already
measured plastic packages like the ketchup you get with your fries. All you
have to do is break the barrier between the two components knead the
package for a minute to thoroughly mix it and cut the corner off and use
it. No messy mixing and clean-up.
My notes are buried somewhere in the garage but, if you would give Mike
Hoke a call @ (800) 638-8441 he can probably put you on the right stuff..
By now, he should be the worlds foremost authority. I took his class a few
years ago and he has been running at least two a year since. He should have
tons of test data.
BTW: The best prep was to clean with a good solvent (MEK or Acetone) wipe
clean and then sand. No cleaning step after sanding - just wipe the dust
with a clean cloth. That is contrary to what most procedures tell you. They
usually want to use a solvent after sanding. It is also very important to
wipe the surface dry with a clean rag after using the solvent. If you don't
all of the contaminates that were dissolved by the solvent are redeposited
when the solvent evaporates. The key to a good bond is cleanliness. You
even have to be careful of airborne particles. The slightest bit of residue
from using a silicone spray or other aerosol can ruin a bond.
How about a totally bonded wing on your next RV.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
If this gets posted twice my appologies. I have not seen it on the llist
and I sent it 2 days ago.
Is there a universal head equivalent to the NAS 1097AD-4 "Oops Rivet" If so
where can one find them.
And, while we are on the subject does anyone know of a source for Alcoa
Crown flus rivets?
BTW; Boeing/MacDac must call them Lockheed Martin rivets now, or more
properly Lockheed Martin Loral (Lomoral) rivets
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | AveryTools(at)aol.com |
Subject: | RV-6 tail & wing kit for sale |
Anyone interested the following, please contact Bob or Judy Avery at (817)
439-8400:
Have RV-6 tail kit -- sheet metal work complete / good workmanship --
includes plans and manual. $1,000. RV-6 wing kit -- out of box, but no
work done on the kit. Has pre-drilled spar (May / 1992 kit). $3,000.
--or-- $3,500 for both.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
Subject: | Re: Flap Hinge Pin |
>Hello listers,
>
>What is the accumulated wisdom about how best to insert the hinge pin
>into the flap hinge?
Steve: I did the split pin, removing 2 hinge eyes from about the middle of
the wing and the flap. Works well. I secured the ends of the pins on the
wing brace and it is fairly easy to remove. If you leave the pin whole you
have to remove the wing to get the pin out, I believe.
Michael
RV-4 232SQ
mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Larry Hoatson <lhoatson(at)e2.empirenet.com> |
Subject: | Re: wire-feed welding |
Consider adding argon / CO2 mixture gas and switching to core-less wire
- Much nicer results
Larry
--
Larry D. Hoatson lhoatson(at)empirenet.com Yucaipa, CA (L12)
Restoring 1950 Cessna 170A N9948A
Looking forward to RV6Q
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Subject: | Re: wire-feed welding |
> For what it's worth, I used a wire welder (that has flux in the wire) to
> weld the wedges that Vans added to the brake pedals.
[snip!]
Uhhh... I do remember a while ago something about an RV-6 driver who
had a weld break on his rudder pedal. But I might've missed a
subsequent change to the design. My rudder pedals don't have any
gussets. Is Vans recommending adding them?
I just finished painting mine (sigh).
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BestBillO(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: -6/6A Sliding Canopy air leaks |
Listers,
Any of you 6 or 6A owners of sliding canopies had any good results
sealing air leaks in the area where the slider mates up to the wind screen,
especially near the top around the latch area? Thanks in advance.
Bill Orcutt, RV-6A, N911RV, 200 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Flap Hinge Pin |
Stephan, there are two ways . One is the way you described and the other is
to drill a small hole through your aileron hinge so you can pull the pin from
the outboard end. I did it the second way, I would recomend you do It the way
you described because you dont need to remove the aileron to remove the flap.
Ryan Bendure RV4131RB
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
Subject: | Re: Averys: RV-6 tail & wing kit for sale |
>Anyone interested the following, please contact Bob or Judy Avery at (817)
>439-8400:
Hey guys! Look... Avery's are on the Net. Yay!!!!
Bob, Judy: Can we place orders by email?
Frank.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mark LaBoyteaux <lbyteaux(at)tulsa.oklahoma.net> |
Subject: | sliding canopy questions |
I'm working on my sliding canopy, and I have a couple of quick
questions. On the forward wind screen, at the bottom aft section, the
plans show making a cutout in the skin in order to overlap the canopy. I
was wondering if anyone had left this out. If I have to make a
fiberglass layup along the front edge, why couldn't I just bring it on
around all the way aft and fair that bottom aft edge smooth instead of
doing the split skin method?
Now, my next question. I have the left side skirt clecoed in place.
When I slide the canopy aft, the fuselage widens, and spreads the skirt
out. When the canopy is at its most aft position, the skirt is finally
clear of the fuselage side. Is this normal? Since the fuselage widens in
this area, I can't see any other option. But it just doesn't look right.
It really pushes the skirt outboard as the canopy is moved aft. Any
comments?
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6a
lbyteaux(at)tulsa.oklahoma.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | EBundy2620(at)aol.com |
Does anyone else have any concerns about the mounting of the lap belts in a
6? The distance between the attach brackets is narrower than the width of
the seat which causes the belts to ride on the edge of the corrugated seat
back. I've smoothed this edge as much as possible, but it still seems that
the belts' constant movement over this edge could cause a problem.
Has anyone installed some type of buffer, or?
Also, does anyone know how the new 3 year medical works? Specifically, are
current 2 year meds extended for an extra year, or are they 3 yrs ONLY after
being accomplished after the rule went into effect?
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | AveryTools(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Averys: RV-6 tail & wing kit for sale |
Frank:
yes, we welcome orders by e-mail; but DON'T DO IT THROUGH THE RV-LIST!! --
send orders and info direct to us at averytools @ aol.com. Plus we should
have a home page (www.averytools.com) out in the next couple of weeks. Bob
Avery
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
Subject: | Re: SALE OF COMPLETE RV/6A KIT |
I'm forwarding this to the list in case someone is interested in purchasing
this kit. Barry lives about 10 miles west of Arlington, WA, the home of the
Arlington Airfair.
Feel free to email either Barry or myself for any details. I have not seen
the kit (nor Barry (for about 2 years)). He's a good guy, though, and
wouldn't cheat you.
John Ammeter
>Return-Path:
>From: "PHILLIPS PERFORMANCE" <sixspeed(at)tgi.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: SALE OF COMPLETE RV/6A KIT
>Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 17:37:48 -0800
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-UIDL: b928f4267103ddda3d526adc12badb00
>
>
>
>----------
>> From: PHILLIPS PERFORMANCE <sixspeed(at)tgi.net>
>> To: ammeterj(at)seanet.com
>> Subject: SALE OF COMPLETE RV/6A KIT
>> Date: Tuesday, December 31, 1996 8:39 AM
>>
>> HI, JOHN, THIS IS BARRY PHILLIPS. I AM HOPING ALL IS WELL FOR YOU ? AM
>IN
>> THE PROCESS OF SELLING MY RV/6A KIT. IT HAS SLIDING CANOPY,ELECTRIC FLAPS
>> AND TRIM ONE PIECE WING SKINS. IT HAS BEEN DEBURRED AND ANODIZED BY KEN
>> ORFORD AT AI METAL FABRICATORS. ALSO WITH THE KIT WOULD GO A STEEL 2"X2"
>> WING JIG. THE TAIL FEATHERS ARE BUILT. I ALSO HAVE A COMPLETE SUBURU
>POWER
>> PLANT 170 H.P. WITH A CONSTANT SPEED PROP AND INSTRUMENTS. I WOULD TAKE
>> $10,000 FOR THE PLANE KIT AND JIG. I AM HOPING YOU WOULD ASSIST ME IN THE
>> SELLING OF THIS KIT. HOPE ALL IS WELL WITH YOU AND YOURS. J.B.(BARRY)
>> PHILLIPS. 6733-230TH PL. N.W., STANWOOD,WA.98292. PHONE FAX
>> (360)-652-3595 E-MAIL sixspeed(at)tgi.net. HAVE A GREAT NEW YEAR, BARRY.
>>
>
>
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.593.emout07.mail.aol.com.852254152"
--PART.BOUNDARY.0.593.emout07.mail.aol.com.852254152
Sorry my first e-mail didn't take the attachment.
Attached, as promised, are the build times for my RV6. The attachment is a
Word document.
A couple of comments. First, this is an early RV6, sn 20404, and therefore
doesn't represent near the level of fabrication today's kits do. These times
were for productive work only. I didn't track studying the plans or chasing
down parts. I had to combine some tasks together so it would make sense.
For example, tail fiberglass appears to have taken a lot of time. It did
take a lot of time because I included the infamous empennage fairing in the
total. That was a piece of junk and took that long to reconstruct it.
Plumbing is deceptively low because I only included the work inside the
fuselage. The rest of the plumbing is included in the engine hookup. I
rebuilt quite a few things and those times are represented. I don't consider
myself either a fast or slow builder. I do believe, however, that I paid a
fair amount of attention to detail. Therefore my times may be a bit on the
high side. I'm now building an RV8 and have included some of the tail hours
for comparison. The new kits are considerably faster.
Rick McBride
RICKRV6(at)aol.com
RV6 N523JC
RV8 80027
--PART.BOUNDARY.0.593.emout07.mail.aol.com.852254152
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--PART.BOUNDARY.0.593.emout07.mail.aol.com.852254152--
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
Thanks to all for the input regarding RST products. I have ordered the
new audio panel kit (RST-564). As I understand you do not have to have
this kit certified but there is some confusion as to having a mechanic
or the like sign off on it for the FAA. Can anyone clear up the
procedure for getting the finished kit from my hands to the airplane and
keeping everyone happy????
Thanks
Rick Osgood
Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
Subject: | Re: Aluminum bonding agent |
>Bill:
>
>>we use pro-seal for everything, including bonding things to the
>>firewall. Of course, after you have used it you will know I refer to it as
>>"Black Death"!
>
>Can you give us any insight why "Fuel Tank Sealant" has replaced Pro-Seal
>in the Accessory Catalog?
>
>Best Regards,
>Dave Barnhart
Dave, I don't remember all the details, but I think the patent ran out on
the "pro seal", so now we buy directly from one of the companies that has
been making the product all these years, instead of the person owning the
patent rights. "Fuel Tank Sealant" just answers one of the many questions
we get about ?what is pro-seal?! Same stuff - different name. Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mark LaBoyteaux <lbyteaux(at)tulsa.oklahoma.net> |
Subject: | Re: sliding canopy questions |
I found the answers to my questions. I can't believe how many times I'll
look at the prints, and overlook what I'm looking for. I called Van's,
and they filled me in on how the side skirts are supposed to be flush
with the main longeron, just like it shows on SC-2! I've also decided
that I need to make the notch in forward skin to overlap the windshield
in order for a smooth transition. I'm going to have someone weld some
tabs onto the bottom of my sliding frame in order for the side skirts to
fit perfect.
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6a
lbyteaux(at)tulsa.oklahoma.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Flap Hinge Pin |
I cut out the two center hinges on each of my flaps. I insert the hinge from
the top side of the wing so the ends are not protruding into the slip-stream.
I safety wirre the the two halves together so they can't move out. Wouldn't
do it any other way.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC, NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Subject: | Re: wire-feed welding |
Ok sorry for the confusion about the rudder pedals everyone.
It was of course just the floor mounted pedals that had
the gussets added, as I have now been reminded.
End of thread.
Randall
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Larry Hoatson <lhoatson(at)e2.empirenet.com> |
Subject: | Re: RST products |
RST will include paperwork describing the process with your kit. My
mechanic was initially skeptical, but when he saw the completed kit, and
the alignment results from RST (I sent mine back to have it checked and
aligned) he sounds more positive about the installation. Just wish we
were ready to install the radios and GO FLYING!
Larry
--
Larry D. Hoatson lhoatson(at)empirenet.com Yucaipa, CA (L12)
KC6WYF Packet: KC6WYF(at)W6JBT.SOCAL.CA.USA.NA
Restoring 1950 Cessna 170A N9948A
Looking forward to RV6AQ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: RST products |
<< I have ordered the
new audio panel kit (RST-564). As I understand you do not have to have
this kit certified but there is some confusion as to having a mechanic
or the like sign off on it for the FAA. Can anyone clear up the
procedure >>
The signoff is detailed in the builder's manual for the audio panel, but is
not required unless the unit is going into factory iron. In a homebuilt, the
FAA man or the DAR signs off the whole shebang at once, just before you fly.
At least that's the way I believe it works.
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Has anyone had experience with the non-certified engine mounts that Aircraft
Spruce sells? The Vans-recommended part is Barry # 94011-20 for nonaerobatic
use. This crosses to a Lord mount the type # of which I don't have in front
of me. The ACSS generic part is a clone of the Lord J-7402-5 which is used
on the Piper PA-28-180, among others. This is not the same Lord part no.
that the Barry from Vans crosses to.
John at Vans wasn't familiar with the ACSS offering, but was interested when
I told him the (1995) price was $154 for the set of four mounts (8 pucks plus
spacers). He said no one at the factory as far as he knew had used
substitute mounts but "if they work for a 180 Lycoming, why not?" My
concern, of course, is stiffness and vibrational characteristics, as well as
service life. So, is it worth it to save a hundred bucks? These things are
outrageously high.
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
RV-6A in western VA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
Subject: | Re: RST products |
As I understand you do not have to have
>this kit certified but there is some confusion as to having a mechanic
>or the like sign off on it for the FAA.
HUH?
Certified for what? Where does it say that you need a have a panel mounted
audio to go fly? Or even a panel mounted radio. What is this sign off
stuff.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
Subject: | e-mail/Web Site Tail feather sale. |
Bob:
Good news on the Web Site.
I'm sure that the kit for sale is not your own RV.
We are all looking forward to seeing you finish it so you can show Buzz
Lauritsen what a real RV looks like ;-}
JIC there are some on the list that don't know Buzz (Cleaveland Tool) built
an Oshkosh Grand Champion -4
Happy New Year.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BARNES_ERIC(at)Tandem.COM |
I believe I read in AOPA that there is NO EXTENSION, but I don't
remember if this was the final rule. I'd definitely make sure before I
went past the 2 year!
EB
barnes_eric(at)tandem.com
------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT --------
SENT 01-02-97 FROM SMTPGATE (EBundy2620(at)aol.com)
Does anyone else have any concerns about the mounting of the lap belts in a
6? The distance between the attach brackets is narrower than the width of
the seat which causes the belts to ride on the edge of the corrugated seat
back. I've smoothed this edge as much as possible, but it still seems that
the belts' constant movement over this edge could cause a problem.
Has anyone installed some type of buffer, or?
Also, does anyone know how the new 3 year medical works? Specifically, are
current 2 year meds extended for an extra year, or are they 3 yrs ONLY after
being accomplished after the rule went into effect?
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | ammeterj(at)seanet.com (John Ammeter) |
>Does anyone else have any concerns about the mounting of the lap belts in a
>6? The distance between the attach brackets is narrower than the width of
>the seat which causes the belts to ride on the edge of the corrugated seat
>back. I've smoothed this edge as much as possible, but it still seems that
>the belts' constant movement over this edge could cause a problem.
>
>Has anyone installed some type of buffer, or?
>
>Ed Bundy RV6A flying
>Eagle, ID
>ebundy2620(at)aol.com
>
>
I was concerned, also, that the belt would rub/chafe on the edge of the seat
back so I constructed a metal 'tang' that bolted into the bracket and had a
slot for the belt. This tank was made from 0.10" 7075 T6 and approximately
three inches long. I bent it about 20 degrees one inch from the bolt hole.
This 20 degree 'kick' moved the belt far enough to the side that it no
longer chafed on the seat back.
BTW, to bend the 7075 I used a block of oak with a 90 degree notch and a
long 3/4" socket. Use a vise and squeeze the socket into the notch (with
the 7075 in between).
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
Subject: | Re: To Oil Cooler line on 0-360 A1A |
>Was just getting ready to hang the motor for the final time, (at least for
>2,000 + hrs, I hope). Was fitting all the stuff to the back of the motor
>while it was handy. Last was the line that is shown on the Lycoming manual
>figure 7.4 as "Oil to Cooler" located at about 4:00 on the oil filter
>looking from the rear.
>
>Well, if you use that one with a straight fitting, the hose will interfer
>with the oil filter.
>
>I assume people use the "optional" location shown in Figure 7.3 at about
>11:00, right next to the "Oil from cooler connection. If I am right, what
>is the source for the "Banjo" fitting?...... I haven't seen it in the ACS
>catalog.
>
>Bruce Patton
>Wishing I could go soaring
Bruce, The correct ports are the one in the center of the engine below the
oil cooler between the mags and the one just above the left mag pointing
straight aft. I think you can use a straight fitting or a 45 and they will
clear the oil filter. The other port at the top was used prior to the days
of oil filters according to one of the Lyc guys out checking our stock for
bad wrist pins. He strongly recommended against using the upper port. I
have also heard that there can be a 10 to 20 degree oil temp change
depending on which port you use, although oil temp is not a problem in
RV's. Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
Subject: | Re: engine mounts |
I don't know about the ACS mounts. Someone could surly make a set
of non-certified (non-PMA) mounts for homebuilders for lower cost
so that is probably what they have.
I can say that the Barry mounts are good mounts.
A number of companies like Chief and Superior sell the Barry mounts
as does Van's.
The old 'Lord' brand mounts use to have a 'gell' sack inside of them
and these things would get old and brake and leak out silicone gell
all over. The Barry mounts do not have this gell sack. I called them
several yrs ago about this and they said that they use a new compound
of rubber and it does not need the gell sack to meet the requirements.
Maybe Lord has done away with the gell sacks now also, I don't know.
I think the Barry mounts are a little 'soft' if you plan any aerobatics.
On my RV-4, I have a smilie hole where the alternator pully wore through
the cowl. I have the 4inch pully (from Avery) so the clearance is minimal.
When I pull about 4 to 5 G's, I can smell the pully rubbing on the cowl.
I expect the acro mounts would not give as much (but they may also
transmit more vibration in cruse).
Herman
dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
> Has anyone had experience with the non-certified engine mounts that Aircraft
> Spruce sells? The Vans-recommended part is Barry # 94011-20 for nonaerobatic
> use. This crosses to a Lord mount the type # of which I don't have in front
> of me. The ACSS generic part is a clone of the Lord J-7402-5 which is used
> on the Piper PA-28-180, among others. This is not the same Lord part no.
> that the Barry from Vans crosses to.
>
> John at Vans wasn't familiar with the ACSS offering, but was interested when
> I told him the (1995) price was $154 for the set of four mounts (8 pucks plus
> spacers). He said no one at the factory as far as he knew had used
> substitute mounts but "if they work for a 180 Lycoming, why not?" My
> concern, of course, is stiffness and vibrational characteristics, as well as
> service life. So, is it worth it to save a hundred bucks? These things are
> outrageously high.
>
> Bill Boyd
> SportAV8R(at)aol.com
> RV-6A in western VA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Paul Osterman III" <PineRanch(at)msn.com> |
Subject: | Pre-punched airleron skins/6A |
Listers:
Just a follow-up to my recently discovered problem of a mismatch between the
pre-punched hole spacing on my 6A aileron skins and the stiffeners from the
Barnard Aircraft fast build kit. I wasn't dreaming, there is a mismatch, and
the problem occured when Vans changed the hole spacing from 1 1/4 to 1 5/16ths
and didn't let Barnard Aircraft know . This info courtesy of Ron Caldwell who
also had the same problem.
Steve Barnard is replacing the stiffeners to me at no charge and has only
requested that I send the unusable ones back to him. The response from Barnard
was quick and without any hesitation. No hemming, no hawing (spell check
please) , just send the old ones back and we'll replace them.
Thanks to Ron Caldwell & Chris Brooks for thier reply.
Paul Osterman
RV6A
Working on flaps, back to the ailerons soon
Anderson, Ca
PineRanch(at)msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen) |
Subject: | Re: engine mounts |
You wrote:
>
>Has anyone had experience with the non-certified engine mounts that
Aircraft
>Spruce sells? The Vans-recommended part is Barry # 94011-20 for
nonaerobatic
>use. This crosses to a Lord mount the type # of which I don't have in
front
>of me. The ACSS generic part is a clone of the Lord J-7402-5 which is
used
>on the Piper PA-28-180, among others. This is not the same Lord part
no.
>that the Barry from Vans crosses to.
>
>John at Vans wasn't familiar with the ACSS offering, but was
interested when
>I told him the (1995) price was $154 for the set of four mounts (8
pucks plus
>spacers). He said no one at the factory as far as he knew had used
>substitute mounts but "if they work for a 180 Lycoming, why not?" My
>concern, of course, is stiffness and vibrational characteristics, as
well as
>service life. So, is it worth it to save a hundred bucks? These
things are
>outrageously high.
>
>Bill Boyd
>SportAV8R(at)aol.com
>RV-6A in western VA
>
Have a look in the Wag Aero catalog. $25 for a set (8 cones).
Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | CWhig49723(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Pre-punched airleron skins/6A |
Can you tell me what Barnard fast build kit cost , how it has helped you and
how I can contact him.
I am building RV6A and just completed my horizontal stabilizer. If I don't
build another piece , I sure am proud of what I done so far.
I'm sorta learning as I go.
Thanks for any help you can give me.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Engine Mounts |
<< Has anyone had experience with the non-certified engine mounts that
Aircraft
Spruce sells? The Vans-recommended part is Barry # 94011-20 for
nonaerobatic
use. This crosses to a Lord mount the type # of which I don't have in front
of me. The ACSS generic part is a clone of the Lord J-7402-5 which is used
on the Piper PA-28-180, among others. This is not the same Lord part no.
that the Barry from Vans crosses to.
John at Vans wasn't familiar with the ACSS offering, but was interested when
I told him the (1995) price was $154 for the set of four mounts (8 pucks
plus
spacers). He said no one at the factory as far as he knew had used
substitute mounts but "if they work for a 180 Lycoming, why not?" My
concern, of course, is stiffness and vibrational characteristics, as well as
service life. So, is it worth it to save a hundred bucks? These things are
outrageously high. >>
Bill-
I found out when I compared the isolation mounts Van's sells for the RV
series with those that Neico sells for the Lancair 320/360, that they are
different. Yes, I have been known to associate occasionally with compost
aircraft builders, but I really really am a good person, honest ;^)
The Van's recommended isolation mounts are the same as those used on Cessna
172, Piper Archer and Mooney M20J, and are large enough in diameter to fill
the entire surface of the dynofocal cups. FYI, Barry P/N 94011-20 crosses to
Lord P/N J-9613-40. The isolation mounts Lancair uses for the O-320 and
O-360 are MUCH smaller in diameter but I don't know the P/N. I do believe
that the Lord P/N 7402-XX series are all small diameter (at least it says so
in the Chief Catalog) so maybe this is what Neico is pawning off on their
builders. The -5 mount is not listed in the Chief Catalog so I don't think
it has any common application in certified AC.
One of the major criteria in isolation mounts is that they be FRESH. I know
a guy that bought a used overhauled engine and got the isolation mounts with
it. He thought the engine was going to shake his teeth out. He had the prop
dynamically balanced and the engine completely checked out at great cost and
it turned out that the mounts were OLD and dried out. Recommend change at
major OH.
The Barry literature I got with mine from Van's DOES NOT indicate that it is
applicable to the O-320-D1A or the O-360-A1A that they OEM, but they fit
great and look robust. The Lancair ones look puny by comparison.
IMO, don't cheap out on this item.
Regards,
Gary VanRemortel
(I build, therefore I am.)
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Martinph(at)cyberbury.net |
HI all
im new to this web site and just wanted to say hello . my name is jeff
martin and i am building an rv -8 . if any 8 builders are out there i
would shure like to hear from you. at present i am working on the rudder
and are almost done with it. thanks
jeff rv8
martinph(at)cyberbury.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: engine mounts |
<< Have a look in the Wag Aero catalog. $25 for a set (8 cones).
Finn >>
Finn, my man. The discussion was about Dynafocal Mounts, not conicals.
Conicals are much cheaper but you have to have an older conical mount
engine.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Paul Osterman III" <PineRanch(at)msn.com> |
Subject: | Pre-punched airleron skins/6A |
The Barnard fast build kit is about $1500. They prepare, anodize and put
together many of the small parts for the wing: rear spar doublers, airleron &
flap hinges, aileron bellcranks & pushrods, stiffeners, fuel tank access
plates, lightening holes cut in aileron & flap spars...
They say it will save 300 hours of building time. I don't know how accurate
that is. It does permit you to begin assembly of the wing in relatively short
order however. I figured that if the 300 hour savings is reasonably accurate
you're paying $5.00/ hour to have them do their work + getting the parts
anodized! If I had it to do over again, I would go with the fast build kit
again.
Either Van's or B.A.C. can send you a flyer with the details. B.A.C.'s # is
916 631-3672, fax # 631-3673.
Paul Osterman
RV6A working on flaps
Anderson, CA
PineRanch(at)msn.com
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of
aol.com!CWhig49723(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Pre-punched airleron skins/6A
Can you tell me what Barnard fast build kit cost , how it has helped you and
how I can contact him.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | kevin lane <kevinlane(at)sprintmail.com> |
Subject: | 0-320 access case |
I found an access case with the fuel pump option. The tach hole however
has this steel collar, perhaps an oil splash guard, held on with two
rivets. My original case has a brass(?) pressed on flange-type thing.
The new case splash guard does not fit inside the tach gears by some 1/4"
at least. Can these be swapped or should I just go have my case machined
(for about the same price, $160) for a fuel pump? That way too, I
wouldn't have to find a prop gov. cover since my engine is a solid crank.
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi,
Just starting my -4 and wanted to know more information on the Frank Justice
manuals.
Thanks in advance
Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Immelmann(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Pre-punched airleron skins/6A |
>The Barnard fast build kit is about $1500. They prepare, anodize and put
together many of the small parts for the wing: rear spar doublers, airleron &
flap hinges, aileron bellcranks & pushrods, stiffeners, fuel tank access
plates, lightening holes cut in aileron & flap spars...
They say it will save 300 hours of building time. I don't know how accurate
that is. It does permit you to begin assembly of the wing in relatively short
order however. I figured that if the 300 hour savings is reasonably accurate
you're paying $5.00/ hour to have them do their work + getting the parts
anodized! If I had it to do over again, I would go with the fast build kit
again.<
I just got my emp kit and with it Van's included a flyer for the Barnard
kits. Barnard also has a "deluxe assembly price" at $2195. The way I read it,
this is in addition to the fast build kit price of $1495 and the Phlogiston
spar, and is for doing sub-assemblies.
In Van's construction manual is a section on "comercial assistance" and a
copy of the FAA advisory circular AC No. 20-139. Both the basic kits and the
quickbuild kits have been approved by the FAA as qualifying under the major
portion or 51% rule, but what happens when you start buying this type of
sub-assemblies? It could put you in the catagory described in article 7 of
the AC, titled Comercial Assistance Requiring Re-evaluation of the Completed
Aircraft. In which it says, in part, "This could put the ameteur-built status
of the aircraft in jeopardy.".
I guess the real issue is whether or not any of the work completed by the
sub-contractor is on parts of the airplane that Van's listed on their
original evaluation checklist as supposed to be accomplished by the ameteur
builder.
I don't know that this will be a problem, but if it was, it could be a big
one. Even if the feds certify the airplane, they might not grant the builder
a repairman's certificate.
Anybody know more about this ?
Just 'cos I'm paranoid, doesn't mean that they're not out to get me.
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Barry & Valerie Wawrin <barval(at)digital.net> |
If your over 40 forget it. The new ruling , which takes effect in =
September, 1997, applies to only those younger than 40. The rest of us =
are still being discriminated against and must renew our class III every =
two years.=20
----------
From: =
Tandem.COM!BARNES_ERIC(at)matronics.com[SMTP:Tandem.COM!BARNES_ERIC(at)matronic=
s.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 1997 8:35 PM
Subject: Medical (was RV-List: Seat Belts)
I believe I read in AOPA that there is NO EXTENSION, but I don't
remember if this was the final rule. I'd definitely make sure before I
went past the 2 year!
EB
barnes_eric(at)tandem.com
------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT --------
SENT 01-02-97 FROM SMTPGATE (EBundy2620(at)aol.com)
Does anyone else have any concerns about the mounting of the lap belts =
in a
6? The distance between the attach brackets is narrower than the width =
of
the seat which causes the belts to ride on the edge of the corrugated =
seat
back. I've smoothed this edge as much as possible, but it still seems =
that
the belts' constant movement over this edge could cause a problem.
Has anyone installed some type of buffer, or?
Also, does anyone know how the new 3 year medical works? Specifically, =
are
current 2 year meds extended for an extra year, or are they 3 yrs ONLY =
after
being accomplished after the rule went into effect?
Ed Bundy RV6A flying
Eagle, ID
ebundy2620(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | High Altitude performance |
I would be very interested to hear from some of you flying RVers about how
your planes do at 7500-8500 density altitude. I am referring to take off and
landing capabilities and runway length requirements. I am building an RV-8,
and will go with IO-360 and CS prop. I hope to visit a couple of places high
up there and am sure some of you Colorado guys and others can tell me what
you have experienced in your RVs. Thanks in advance, and please e-mail
off-list to N95MF(at)aol.com. Mark Goldberg.(flat lander-Austin,TX) RV-8 tail
pieces done-ailerons and flaps done-waiting for wing spars
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Haan <bobh(at)cdac.com> |
Subject: | BAC Wing Kit by Steve Barnard |
Another benefit of the BAC Kit is Steve Barnard has very accurately
predrilled all the aileron mounting fittings so that during assembly the
alignment of the ailerons is accurate and automatic including the
positioning of the aileron stops. Also, the end fittings on the aileron
control rods are welded not riveted. I used it and would certainly use it
again.
At 05:25 PM 1/4/97 UT, you wrote:
>The Barnard fast build kit is about $1500. They prepare, anodize and put
>together many of the small parts for the wing: rear spar doublers,
airleron &
>flap hinges, aileron bellcranks & pushrods, stiffeners, fuel tank access
>plates, lightening holes cut in aileron & flap spars...
>They say it will save 300 hours of building time. I don't know how accurate
>that is. It does permit you to begin assembly of the wing in relatively
short
>order however. I figured that if the 300 hour savings is reasonably accurate
>you're paying $5.00/ hour to have them do their work + getting the parts
>anodized! If I had it to do over again, I would go with the fast build kit
>again.
>
>Either Van's or B.A.C. can send you a flyer with the details. B.A.C.'s # is
>916 631-3672, fax # 631-3673.
>
>Paul Osterman
>RV6A working on flaps
>Anderson, CA
>PineRanch(at)msn.com
>----------
>From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of
>aol.com!CWhig49723(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Pre-punched airleron skins/6A
>
>Can you tell me what Barnard fast build kit cost , how it has helped you and
>how I can contact him.
>
>
>
Bob Haan
bobh(at)cdac.com
Portland, OR
503-636-3550
RV6A working on the fuselage frame
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: 0-320 access case |
Kevin, that steel coller is part of your oil slinger assy. The other half of
that assy is bolted to your camshaft gear. your problem may be as simple as
getting the proper slinger assy and bolting it on to your cam gear. Some
camshafts are 2 piece,( cam and gear are seperate assy) and some are 1 piece.
I cant remember off hand if there are more than one type slinger assy on the
cam side but im pretty sure their are. Check your parts manual !! This should
be a fairly simple problem to resolve. Ryan Bendure RV4131RB
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Garth & Shelley Cruden <crudenit(at)iinet.net.au> |
Subject: | Ardem Nk XI Aero Engine |
Hi everyone,
I realise this isn't quite RV related, but does anyone know where we can
get any information about the Ardem Mk XI Aero engine. It is an
aircraft conversion of the Volkswagon engine, and is currently fitted in
a Corby Starlet.
Any information is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Garth & Shelley Cruden
(crudenit(at)iinet.net.au)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cliffd(at)mailhost.accesscom.net (Cliff Dominey) |
>HI all
>im new to this web site and just wanted to say hello . my name is jeff
>martin and i am building an rv -8 . if any 8 builders are out there i
>would shure like to hear from you. at present i am working on the rudder
>and are almost done with it. thanks
> jeff rv8
>
>martinph(at)cyberbury.net
Hi Jeff -
Congratulations on taking the plunge. As soon as I can get some nagging
problems behind me, I hope to be right behind you. Hope you don't mind a
few messages from the wannabes on the list. There are quite a few of us.
Do you mind a few questions? I would be interested to know if you have
previous metal work experience (I have none) and how things are going so
far if you are a real "newbie" to the riveting business. Using a pneumatic
squeezer perhaps? or bucking everything? You must be getting close to
finishing the empannage kit - how long did it take you? Some weeks ago one
of the RV8 listers said that he called Vans and was told (don't you love
all this second hand info?) that they are working on a nosegear option for
the fuselage kit. Have you heard that? Thinking about going that way?
Sounds good to me, even if I have to take some heat for not going the
taildragger route.
Welcome to the list. It is a great resource, as you no doubt have found
searching the archives.
Cliff Dominey
New Orleans
cliffd(at)mailhost.accesscom.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
Subject: | Re: Ardem Nk XI Aero Engine |
Garth & Shelley Cruden wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I realise this isn't quite RV related, but does anyone know where we can
> get any information about the Ardem Mk XI Aero engine. It is an
> aircraft conversion of the Volkswagon engine, and is currently fitted in
> a Corby Starlet.
>
> Any information is greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Garth & Shelley Cruden
> (crudenit(at)iinet.net.au)
Please don't say your thinking of that for your RV.... please
--
Rick Osgood
Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Engine Mounts |
<< The Van's recommended isolation mounts are the same as those used on
Cessna
172, Piper Archer and Mooney M20J, and are large enough in diameter to fill
the entire surface of the dynofocal cups. FYI, Barry P/N 94011-20 crosses
to
Lord P/N J-9613-40. The isolation mounts Lancair uses for the O-320 and
O-360 are MUCH smaller in diameter but I don't know the P/N. I do believe
that the Lord P/N 7402-XX series are all small diameter (at least it says so
in the Chief Catalog) so maybe this is what Neico is pawning off on their
builders. The -5 mount is not listed in the Chief Catalog so I don't think
it has any common application in certified AC. >>
Thanks for the input, Gary. FWIW, I got the cross-ref #'s from the salesman
at Air Connection, an outfit that gave me a GREAT deal on reusable silicone
rocker cover gaskets, but this time quoted a hair-raising price on the
mounts. Perhaps he looked it up wrong. Sorry if this causes any confusion.
I am not contemplating used mounts for the reason you cited (freshness);
just wondered if ACSS could save me a C-note with noncertified parts.
Someone suggested mounts from WAG aero... perhaps Bill Benedict will weigh
in with an unofficial factory pronouncement.
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
I build, therefore I'm not logging any PIC time lately.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RFlunker(at)aol.com |
Subject: | BAC Wing Kit by Steve Barnard |
I used the kit as well, and am highly recommending it. I wish Steve would
have offerred something like that for the fuselage - ie do a lot of the
things that are slow one-time processes for most of us that he could probably
punch out rather quickly. While I enjoy assembly, I find the measuring,
clamping, drilling process boring.
Dick Flunker, RV-6A
Skinning the fuse
---------------------
From: cdac.com!bobh(at)matronics.com (Bob Haan)
Date: 97-01-04 20:11:47 EST
Another benefit of the BAC Kit is Steve Barnard has very accurately
predrilled all the aileron mounting fittings so that during assembly the
alignment of the ailerons is accurate and automatic including the
positioning of the aileron stops. Also, the end fittings on the aileron
control rods are welded not riveted. I used it and would certainly use it
again.
At 05:25 PM 1/4/97 UT, you wrote:
>The Barnard fast build kit is about $1500. They prepare, anodize and put
>together many of the small parts for the wing: rear spar doublers,
airleron &
>flap hinges, aileron bellcranks & pushrods, stiffeners, fuel tank access
>plates, lightening holes cut in aileron & flap spars...
>They say it will save 300 hours of building time. I don't know how accurate
>that is. It does permit you to begin assembly of the wing in relatively
short
>order however. I figured that if the 300 hour savings is reasonably accurate
>you're paying $5.00/ hour to have them do their work + getting the parts
>anodized! If I had it to do over again, I would go with the fast build kit
>again.
>
>Either Van's or B.A.C. can send you a flyer with the details. B.A.C.'s # is
>916 631-3672, fax # 631-3673.
>
>Paul Osterman
>RV6A working on flaps
>Anderson, CA
>PineRanch(at)msn.com
>----------
>From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of
>aol.com!CWhig49723(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Pre-punched airleron skins/6A
>
>Can you tell me what Barnard fast build kit cost , how it has helped you
and
>how I can contact him.
>
>
>
Bob Haan
bobh(at)cdac.com
Portland, OR
503-636-3550
RV6A working on the fuselage frame
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Garth & Shelley Cruden <crudenit(at)iinet.net.au> |
Subject: | Re: Ardem Nk XI Aero Engine |
No - it might be a little small for an RV?!!
Rick Osgood wrote:
>
> Garth & Shelley Cruden wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I realise this isn't quite RV related, but does anyone know where we can
> > get any information about the Ardem Mk XI Aero engine. It is an
> > aircraft conversion of the Volkswagon engine, and is currently fitted in
> > a Corby Starlet.
> >
> > Any information is greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Garth & Shelley Cruden
> > (crudenit(at)iinet.net.au)
>
> Please don't say your thinking of that for your RV.... please
>
> --
> Rick Osgood
> Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | New Airworthiness Certificate (was RST products) |
<< Certified for what? Where does it say that you need a have a panel mounted
audio to go fly? Or even a panel mounted radio. What is this sign off
stuff.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556 >>
Hi All,
The key words are "Major Alteration". If an experimental aircraft has a
major alteration, a new airworthiness certificate will need to be issued.
If the electrical system modification to install the audio panel is
considered by the FAA to be a major alteration to the electrical system,
AFTER THE AIRCRAFT HAS ALREADY BEEN CERTIFIED, then a new airworthiness
certificate (FAA/DAR visit) is required.
My RV-3 is on its third airworthiness certicate.
The first was for the Lycoming O-290-G fixed pitch prop configuration.
The second was for the LOM M332A fixed pitch prop configuration.
The third is for the LOM M332A flight adjustable, ground adjustable , or
fixed pitch prop configuration.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
Subject: | Re: engine mounts |
>You wrote:
>>
>>Has anyone had experience with the non-certified engine mounts that
>Aircraft
>>Spruce sells? The Vans-recommended part is Barry # 94011-20 for
>nonaerobatic. The ACSS generic part is a clone of the Lord J-7402-5 which is
>used on the Piper PA-28-180, among others. This is not the same Lord part
>no. that the Barry from Vans crosses to.
>>...the (1995) price was $154 for the set of four mounts (8
>pucks plus spacers).
>>
>>Bill Boyd
>>SportAV8R(at)aol.com
>>RV-6A in western VA
>>
>Have a look in the Wag Aero catalog. $25 for a set (8 cones).
>
>Finn
Bill, I tried to cross for you but came up with nothing directly, except
the data with the Barry controls states the 94011-20 is FAA-PMA approved for
the PA-28-180, among others. If they work, let us know! As far as the
Wag Aero, they may be just fine, but the price differential is too much and
I would be concerned. Are these Wag Aero mounts for dyna focal mounts or
are they conical mounts? I know that conical mounts are a lot less
expensive. Maybe "you get what you pay for!" After you have hung an engine
on a dynafocal mount and mounted the cowl to the position of the engine,
you are not going to be too excited about going back and replacing the
isolation pads if they don't hold up. Bill.
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
Subject: | Re: High Altitude performance |
>I would be very interested to hear from some of you flying RVers about how
>your planes do at 7500-8500 density altitude. I am referring to take off and
>landing capabilities and runway length requirements. I am building an RV-8,
>and will go with IO-360 and CS prop. I hope to visit a couple of places high
>up there and am sure some of you Colorado guys and others can tell me what
>you have experienced in your RVs. Thanks in advance, and please e-mail
>off-list to N95MF(at)aol.com. Mark Goldberg.(flat lander-Austin,TX) RV-8 tail
>pieces done-ailerons and flaps done-waiting for wing spars
>
Mark, I am replying back through the list so everyone can see this also.
I've been through Leadville Co. (LXV) on numerous (well, maybe 4 is not
numerous) times in a C-182, RV-4-150, RV-6A-160 and RV-6T-180. Each time
there were two people and on cross countries, ie: lots of baggage. The 182
got off the ground because the runway ends in a ravine and you just float
off into space. I was concerned but the plane did finally climb out of it.
Had to circle to climb across the mountains to the west. Not quite as bad
as I made it out to be, but not a comfortable feeling for a sea level
pilot. The RV-4 did better. I learned with the 182 not to use flaps! So
the -4 (F/P prop) got off and climbed slowly, but headed west across the
mountains without circling. Not real lively though, but what can you
expect at 10,000 ft. The RV-6A's with C/S props were off with about twice
the ground roll that I am used to at sea level. Turned west and continue to
the next fuel stop. Even Jon Johanson flew his RV-4 into Leadville. I
don't think he had all 125 gallons on board. The RV's know they are not at
sea level, but they work very well at these altitudes, even with those
short stubby wings! Bill.
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
r > Justice says that you cut out two eyes from the hinge in the middle
r > and
r > insert and withdraw the hinge pins from the middle. Does this work?
Yes, I did this on my RV-4 and it seems to work. To secure the pins I
bent them so there was an eylet for a 8-32 screw, and put two
nutplates on the flap spar. Make sure to get the hinge line straight,
this was not as easy as I thought, as the inboard flap brace has to
be shortened and rebent after stepping it onto the sparplates. After
many cardboard templates I cut the brace and positioned it. I can
push the pin into the hinge fairly easily.(it WOULD come out if not
secured).
Marc.DeGirolamo@140-15.mx1.fidonet.org
finishing wings
... OFFLINE 1.40 * Rv-ing for FUN
--
|Fidonet: Marc Degirolamo 1:140/15
|Internet: Marc.Degirolamo@140-15.mx1.fidonet.org
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his/her own.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
Subject: | Rvs ready to fly in 97 |
>From comments made on the list, and in the current RVator, there are many,
maybe hundreds, of RVs ready to take to the skies this year. The people at
Vans are hoping to see 250 at Oshkosh this year.
If you would like to e-mail to me, your type of RV, registation #, estimated
completion date, and if you intend to fly to Oshkosh, I will make up a list.
John C-GDOC, ready by Spring.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen) |
Subject: | Re: engine mounts |
>>Have a look in the Wag Aero catalog. $25 for a set (8 cones).
>>
>>Finn
>
>Bill, I tried to cross for you but came up with nothing directly,
except
>the data with the Barry controls states the 94011-20 is FAA-PMA
approved for
>the PA-28-180, among others. If they work, let us know! As far as
the
>Wag Aero, they may be just fine, but the price differential is too
much and
>I would be concerned. Are these Wag Aero mounts for dyna focal mounts
or
>are they conical mounts?
Sorry, I didn't read the original posting correctly. The ones from Wag
Aero are conical (certified).
Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BillAkin(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Not-so-basic riveting basics |
Gee Whiz. I set most of the rivets in my airplane with mutiple whacks with a
rivet gun. Guess I'll ground it after 600 hours because of poor rivet grain
alignment. Sounds like your inspector works for the space program. Obviously,
the rivets need to be set properly and if they measure in height correctly
after set, they will provide the shear strength you need.
Keep on keepin on.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | BAC kits and buildtimes (chatter) |
I speak for two, first time, non experienced RV6 builders here within 10
miles of one another. We purchased (2) the complete fast build assemblies as
we knew it @ 1.5 years ago, prior to Van's offering the complete factory fast
build.
We are 100% completely satisfied with Phlogistions spars (@$795), BAC quick
build components (@$1500) and BAC deluxe assembly kits (@ $2200). The 3rd
service is not all that well known? Purchasing all 3, your spar and complete
wing kit goes directly from Van's AC to BAC Calif. There BAC completely
transforms the wing kit into a total prepunched, pre fitted, dry fit
assembly. Adding in these 3 options, you get delivered wing kits all
prepunched, at 99% of the locations. All you do is jig it up and with in
hours, you are ready to fit your pre-punched skins. Now you've got a tight
fitting jig saw puzzle well marked, plus suplemental plan verbage and CAD
drawings in tough to understand areas. Steve Barnard will go out of his way
to answer questions you may have and stands by his products, as noted in
other RVlist memos.
True first time builders would have to fill in the true hours expended here
but the addition of @ $4500 works out to @ $10 per hour. I calculated
savings in hours at 50 hr for spars, 150 BAC quick build and 250 in wing kit?
While I doubt I'll end up with a show plane, my wings, with great flap gaps,
alieron fits, fuel tank fits, F604 to F605 gap right on B/P dim, back riveted
skin surfaces, on and on, I couldn't be prouder of. They all came out
great, with fewer asprin breaks compared to other sections I've built. Mind
you my tail and fuselage have/are coming out pretty good too. If BAC were to
offer a fuselage kit, I would have bought it too.
I'm told from advanced RV fellow, flyer/builders we are fast builders
(really???) but here would be my accounting for my build times so far. (Note
I 100% prime a kit right out of the box, and touch up later as required).
Empennage kit (old style, not prepunched) @ 284 hours
4/15/95 rec'd, 99% complete 10/3/95, 276 my hours, 7.5 assisted hours, 50
work sessions, avg 5.67 hrs/day. @165 days spent. (note I waited to long
prior to ordering wings, I sat at the end of this section and puttered around
a lot).
Wings (Deluxe build kit prepped wings) @ 306 Hours (kit = @ 590 hr
so far)
10/30/95 rec'd, Left wing, flap and aileron asm'y, 95% completed by 1/10/96,
159 my hours, 37.5 assisted hours, 33 work sessions, avg 5.95 hrs/day. @70
days spent.
1/13/96 started on Right wing, flap and aileron asm'y, 95% completed by
3/21/96, 90.5 my hours, 18.5 assisted hours, 33 work sessions, avg 5.95
hrs/day. @70 days spent. (note I rec'd and primed 85% fuselage kit in
here and built a Fuselage jig in here also).
Fuselage @ 90% comlete to date, @ 309 hours (kit = @ 856 hr so far)
broken down as:
4/20/96 started, skeleton completed 6/16/96 at @ 120 hours.
by 8/12/96, all skins fitted and back riveted on, at @ 85 hours later.
8/14/96, removed from jig, started top side work. @ 107 hours to date
additional.
Up to canopy frame fitting and dash board construction details now
1/5/96
David McManmon, RV6, 0320H2AD, Tip up,
Cicero, NY E mail McManD(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BillAkin(at)aol.com |
Tim:
Put #6 screws to hold the glass bowl on the alum plate in lieu of rivets or
remould the bowl to let down enough to clear the gear fairing. I used the
screws. Remoulding could effect performance. Also, we coud have built a 6.
Good Luck.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Leaf spring gear? |
I believe I read some where, regarding the RV6A air beetle project getting
alum leaf spring gear. It seems a natural upgrade to the current RV6 series
to me. Couldn't a this open up a engine mount which holds a nose wheel, and
the tail dragger mounts, at the same time, plus leaf mounts on the belly/spar
offering owners the options to switch around?
I for one desire (am building) an RV6 final flyer. But I'd love to
train/start the RV experience in an RV6A. Care to discuss?
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Van's Isspro instruments of reasonable quality? |
Are the Isspro instruments offered in Van's accessories catalog of reasonable
quality? Does anybody have experience with them? Good or Bad?
If you don't like these, which brand do you prefer?
The prices advertised on these guages seem almost too good to be true. I like
to believe that anything advertised in Van's catalog is of excellent quality
and bears Van's endorsement, however I recently called to order something
else from their catalog but Bill Benedict said that the item in question was
no good and he suggested I ordered an alternate brand which was not in their
catalog.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tom Goeddel <tgoeddel(at)monmouth.com> |
Subject: | Questions about top of F-606 |
Hi all,
I'm trying to get my F-606 bulkhead for my RV-6a put together and I can't
quite decide what is supposed to happen at the top with the sliding canopy
(I'm trying to figure out where to put the rivet holes in the top so they
won't interfere with anything later).
1. Sheet 32 shows a gusset (F-688) on top of the F-606 bulkhead and the
F-687 rib that runs back to the F-607 bulkhead. Sheet SC-1 for the slider
doesn't seem to show the F-688 gusset, just the C-662/663 rear canopy slide
parts although it's not very clear. The F-688 has been included in the kit
(other parts not used in the slider are not included...). Is the F-688
gusset used with the slider?
2. If F-688 is used, it would seem to cause a step under the top skin as the
F-688 is on top of the F-606 and F-687. Is this a problem? (This would seem
to be relevant to the tip-up as well...)
3. There is no dimension shown on SC-1 for where the C-664 threaded rod used
to adjust the front part of the C-662/663 track goes through the F-606
bulkhead. If the plans are to scale, it looks like this hole will end up
near the bottom of the F-687 rib flange. Is that correct? Is that the one
place I need to avoid putting a rivet in the top F-606 joint?
4. There is a joggle in the flange of the F-606 pieces, a little over an
inch wide (half in each half of the F-606 bulkhead), located at the top
center of the bulkhead. I can't seem to find anything on the plans that
shows what this joggle is for. Am I missing something?
I feel like I'm spending hours puzzling over every hole these days - didn't
seem to have that problem on the tail and wings. The old brain must be fried
from all the primer use (do you need to alodyne you brain for best results?)...
Tom Goeddel
RV-6a (lets see... 1 week per hole X 13000 holes... ugh...)
tgoeddel(at)monmouth.com (home)
goeddel(at)lucent.com (work)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
I made a regular fairing just like the ones that fair the main gear legs and
attached it to the cowl with three nutplates. This makes removing the lower
cowl very easy and fairs the gear leg better than the little foam piece.
There was a picture of this in my newsletter along with the article about my
cowl flap design.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
Ready to fly with good weather.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | ve7fp(at)jetstream.net (Ken Hoshowski) |
Subject: | Re: Rvs ready to fly in 97 |
----------
> From: Dr John Cocker <medhumor.com!jcocker(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Rvs ready to fly in 97
> Date: Sunday, January 05, 1997 7:04 AM
>
> From comments made on the list, and in the current RVator, there are
many,
> maybe hundreds, of RVs ready to take to the skies this year. The people
at
> Vans are hoping to see 250 at Oshkosh this year.
> If you would like to e-mail to me, your type of RV, registation #,
estimated
> completion date, and if you intend to fly to Oshkosh, I will make up a
list.
>
> John C-GDOC, ready by Spring.
John, Add me to your list for OSH
RV6 C-FKEH 1st. flight Sept 93
160 HP Constant Speed
Note. I am also the editor of the Western Canada RVator a quarterly
newsletter for RV builders, flyers and interested builders. For more info
ve7fp(at)jetstream.net
Ken Hoshowski Beautiful British Columbia
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: High Altitude performance |
Mark, My wife and I fly a modified 0320-E2A RV4 with a fixed pitch prop
throughout the summer and even winter when weather allows. We have flown out
of leadville on several occasions. We have freinds in Buena Vista and fly
there regularly, also travel to Aspen alot. We have never experienced any
problem leaving the ground. The RV still gets off the ground in a fairly
short distance and depending on the day it climbs quite well also. I have
never seen less than a 500fpm climb out of leadville with full fuel and day
bags. I weigh 220 and my wife weighs around 125 (she tells me). Your 8
equiped as you stated should work great up here. Ryan Bendure RV4131RB
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation Sites on Internet |
I am fairly new to the internet, Where are some sites that would be of
interest to sport and experimental pilots?
Chris May
RV-4 N595CM
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Rudder pedal slant, rudder brace cutout |
A while back, Ross said
>My suggestion to those who haven't built the pedals yet.....Don't rivet on
>the inside pieces which attach to the brake cylinder, just clamp them in
>place. Install into the rudder pedals with the brake cylinders and postion
>the pieces up or down to get the slant you want and to get them even on
>both sides.
I made some dummy F-6117A's (the piece that connects the brake pedal to the
master cylinder). I found that in order to get both brake pedals to slant
back 1 inch I needed to increase the 1 1/2" dimension by 1/4" for the left
pedal and 7/16 for the right pedal.
Also, for you quickbuilders, be aware that you need to cut about 3 1/2" off
the flange off of F-6118 rudder brace so it will clear the F601K oil
filter/governor box (if you bought one). Also, I recommend you DO NOT rivet
F-6118 in place too soon. When it's riveted in place it's pretty difficult
to remove and replace the rudder pedal assembly.
Tim Lewis
Major, USAF, finally!
RV-6AQ
TimRV6A(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
listers
I'm interested in getting an engine monitor for my rv. I have seen
the Rocky mtn monitor and the micro-vision monitor.
There is a considerable price diffrence between the two.
Does any body have any input on which is the best value. I talked
with the peolpe at rocky mtn, they seem to be straight up, but I
have been wrong before ( go figure).
Vans sells the micro-vision at about 3 times the rocky mtn unit,
but price does not always tell the whole story
Any input would be of great help.
Craig Hiers
Tallahassee,FL ( yes FSU got thier butts kicked )
RV-4 N143CH
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dana Breda <rv6av8r(at)ols.net> |
Subject: | Re: Van's Isspro instruments of reasonable quality? |
>Are the Isspro instruments offered in Van's accessories catalog of reasonable
>quality? Does anybody have experience with them? Good or Bad?
>
I didn't buy the guages, but used Van's Isspro sending units in my tanks.
Bad choice. On the ground, they seem to stick and read all over the dial.
I believe they are fairly accurate in flight, but I don't trust them.
Incidently, I used some Westach guages, and wouldn't do that again, either.
I think you get what you pay for...
Dana Breda N138DB in NC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
Subject: | Re: Van's Isspro instruments of reasonable quality? |
>Are the Isspro instruments offered in Van's accessories catalog of reasonable
>quality? Does anybody have experience with them? Good or Bad?
>
>If you don't like these, which brand do you prefer?
Dear ????,
The Isspro look cheap to me. On something as important as measuring our
expensive engines, I wouldn't chintz on instrumentation. I'm using
Rochester electric gauges (ACS). They work very well, are a little more
expensive than average and are very heavy. Mitchell makes electric gauges
(oil temp, oil press, fuel pressure, etc.) both round and rectangular. The
later look similar to Piper and Cessna strips and can be configured both
vertically and horizontally. For ease of service, they remove from the front.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
(If everyone would sign their posts as above, we would know who we are
talking to and it would make it a lot easier to post a reply to the sender
instead of the list)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation Sites on Internet |
> I am fairly new to the internet, Where are some sites that would be of
>interest to sport and experimental pilots?
> Chris May
>RV-4 N595CM
Chris, These ought to keep you busy for awhile. You should be able to copy
and paste the various entries into your internet software. Have fun.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
http://www.vanbortel.com/airpower.html
http://www.airtourist.com/PennYan.htm
http://www.superair.com/
http://www.sensenich.com/
http://www.sensenich.com/misc/usecare.htm
http://www.sierra.net/skyranch/
http://members.aol.com/TBOHome/index.html
http://www.sierra.net:80/skyranch/marvel2.htm
http://www.earthlink.net/~rkhu/vans/list.htm
http://www.eaa.org/
http://www.insync.net/~sidl/tips.html
http://atlantis.austin.apple.com/people.pages/jhovan/home.html
http://dunkin.Princeton.EDU/.rvlist/
http://www.insync.net/~sidl/glastar.html
http://www.insync.net/~sidl/hangar.html
http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/
http://www.airparts.com/airlinks.html
http://gtravis.ucs.indiana.edu/
http://www.everett.net/users/allnight/
http://rampages.onramp.net/~micheleb/hanger.html
http://www.eaa.org/oshkosh/index.html
http://members.aol.com/TaleWheel/homebilt.htm
http://www.hooked.net/baicorp/aerocrafter/
http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~fortuned/homeb.html
http://www.sky.net/~kvap/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | d shipman <innovate(at)dallas.net> |
Hello everyone:
I was just reading the October 93 RVator and there is a photo of
Pete Ward's RV-3. Does anyone know about this fastback modification
or how to contact Mr. Ward?
Thanks,
David in Dallas
innovate(at)dallas.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
Subject: | Re: Leaf spring gear? |
>I believe I read some where, regarding the RV6A air beetle project getting
>alum leaf spring gear. It seems a natural upgrade to the current RV6 series
>to me. Couldn't a this open up a engine mount which holds a nose wheel, and
>the tail dragger mounts, at the same time, plus leaf mounts on the belly/spar
>offering owners the options to switch around?
>
>I for one desire (am building) an RV6 final flyer. But I'd love to
>train/start the RV experience in an RV6A. Care to discuss?
Just couldn't wait to get my word in on this one! The Air Beetle project
started with composite main gear, then went to aluminum and finally flat
bar steel legs, the same as the first RV-8. The steel legs seem to be
holding up ok, but the composite delaminated (we had a set, well two sets
on Van's -6T and they delaminated too), then went to aluminum but they
started yeilding (the -6T is still on aluminum) then finally the Beetle
ended up on the steel legs. This flat bar is only used on the mains. If
you think about it, the engine mount does not change when you go to
different mains on a tri-gear because the mains attach to the spar. So for
all practical purposes, a 6 wheeler could be built with the current legs.
What is the penalty (nothing comes for free!)? The two big items are weight
and cost, and as you know, Van is very conscious about both of these
parameters. The extra cost would be associated with two sets of gear legs
because the -6 mains are different from the -6A mains, plus the cost and
weight of the extra steel hanging on the engine mount. May not sound like
much, but weight is hard to remove from an airframe, and once you get your
RV flying you will see how the performance REALLY changes depending on
whether someone is sitting in the other seat, or how full the tanks are.
True sport flying (P-51 wanta-be flying) is a great thrill, and it doesn't
involve low flying nor unsafe flying.
The best way to achieve both an RV-6 and an RV-6A is to become a REPEAT
OFFENDER. That solves the problem of withdrawl symptoms, and you get a
second chance to correct all of those things that just are not the way you
had envisioned them. By that time you will have forgotten about all those
things you called Van's Aircraft when you had problems, about the
frustrating evening(s) trying to interpret the plans, etc. Just joshin!
---- Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
>listers
>
>I'm interested in getting an engine monitor for my rv. I have seen
>the Rocky mtn monitor and the micro-vision monitor.
>There is a considerable price diffrence between the two.
>Does any body have any input on which is the best value. I talked
>with the peolpe at rocky mtn, they seem to be straight up, but I
>have been wrong before ( go figure).
>Vans sells the micro-vision at about 3 times the rocky mtn unit,
>but price does not always tell the whole story
>Any input would be of great help.
>
>Craig Hiers
>Tallahassee,FL ( yes FSU got thier butts kicked )
>RV-4 N143CH
Craig, Van's has used the VM1000, but we have never used the RM engine
package. The price difference is partly due to the probe costs. The VM1000
comes with probes, the RM does not. Beware when buying temp probes because
there are type K probes and type J (I think). We have used the RM
airspeed/altimeter and it works nicely. Either one is a good unit. Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | bennett(at)healey.com.au |
Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation Sites on Internet |
> Chris, These ought to keep you busy for awhile. You should be able to copy
> and paste the various entries into your internet software. Have fun.
>
> Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
Good one Bob. Thanks from the rest of us.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 working inside fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jeff Davis" <jdavis1(at)ford.com> |
Subject: | BAC kits and buildtimes (chatter) |
I am just completing my empennage (RV6 non-prepunched) and am getting serious
about ordering the rest of the kit. I am a little confused between the options
available. Can someone explain the difference between the prepunched, quick
build and the options available from BAC?
* If you order a quick build do you need any of the services offered by BAC or
is it only for the prepunced kits??
* If I do go with a quick build (First Choice) what is the best way to have it
delivered (or should I pick it up)? (I live in Michigan)
Thanks for your help.
--
Jeffrey S. Davis - Phone (313)845-5224
Senior Research Engineer
Advance Vehicle Technology
Ford Motor Company
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Red color 100LL Avgas / MS21919 |
Does anyone know what happens when a large quanty of water enters Chervon
blue 100LL avgas? It the process of running a test to determine the
compatability of the rubber on Adel clamps in Avgas, I poured 100LL into a
container what was cleaned out with water. With about 20 drops of water and
20 drops of 100LL avgas, it turned red like 80/87 avgas. The Aiport Line
Service manager that manages the airport fuel service said that this is
normal if water contamination occurs.
The black rubber on the MS21919 Adel clamp was not effected by the 100LL
after 18 hours. The red rubber used on the clamps was very deteriorated. I
was told by a T-18 builder that the black rubber on the clamps was not fuel
resistant and that the red was. I showed him the sample after 18 hours. He
is going to do some additional research. The Aircraft Spruce catalog list
the MS21919 clamps as non-fuel resistant. I do not believe everything that I
read in books or on the internet. My test in the 100LL is still on going.
The server is down at work that will tie me into the library CD that has all
MS specifictions. I will check the MS specification and terminate the test
at one week. Anyone else have problems with the black rubber deteriorating
on the MS21919 clamps when exposed to Avgas?
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 20480 N157GS
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Van's Isspro instruments of reasonable quality? |
From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
I used the Issopro gauges and have had zero troubles with them. No
sticking, and consistant readings.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>>Are the Isspro instruments offered in Van's accessories catalog of
reasonable
>>quality? Does anybody have experience with them? Good or Bad?
>>
>I didn't buy the guages, but used Van's Isspro sending units in my
tanks.
>Bad choice. On the ground, they seem to stick and read all over the
dial.
>I believe they are fairly accurate in flight, but I don't trust them.
>Incidently, I used some Westach guages, and wouldn't do that again,
either.
>I think you get what you pay for...
>
>Dana Breda N138DB in NC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Active Noise Cancelation in the cabin. |
From: | Bill Downey <billd(at)ibmoto.com> |
A friend of mine, who has a pilot's certificate but hasn't flown in
years, sent me a pointer to an interesting web page. The web page has
a small blurb about active noise control for the cabin. They have a
system that has been certified on the Beech King Air and the Cessna
Conquest.
Check out
http://www.lordcorp.com/nvx/NVX_ANC_Page.html
Has any one thought of doing this for an RV? One could save a lot of
money on Bose headsets.
Bill Downey
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
>listers
>
>I'm interested in getting an engine monitor for my rv. I have seen
>the Rocky mtn monitor and the micro-vision monitor.
>There is a considerable price diffrence between the two.
>Does any body have any input on which is the best value. I talked
>with the peolpe at rocky mtn, they seem to be straight up, but I
>have been wrong before ( go figure).
>Vans sells the micro-vision at about 3 times the rocky mtn unit,
>but price does not always tell the whole story
>Any input would be of great help.
>
>Craig Hiers
>Tallahassee,FL ( yes FSU got thier butts kicked )
>RV-4 N143CH
>
>
Craig,
I have built the RMI micromonitor and will be installing it in my RV-6A
within a week. I have nothing but praise for this kit and the company
behind it. Their customer service is outstanding. The kit was easy to
assemble and appears to work well. It took me a very enjoyably 20 hours to
put together. If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't hesitate to build
another. Actually I had so much fun with the micromonitor that I will
probably put a microencoder in the plane in the future.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV (Hope to finish by May)
scottg(at)villagenet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Frank K Justice <Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.co.intel.com> |
Subject: | Re: Justice Manual? |
Text item:
>Hi,
>Just starting my -4 and wanted to know more information on the Frank Justice
>manuals.
>Thanks in advance
>Rob
Rob:
The Justice manual is a set of step-by-step instructions for building most
sections of an RV-6 or -6A. RV4 builders can use the tail and wing sections
because they are almost identical in the two models.
The instructions are intended to supplement rather than replace the
constructiona manual that comes from Van's with the kits. They are text only (no
pictures) to make them easier for everybody to make use of. The general idea is
to have a set of steps that when followed in order will keep you from making
common mistakes, help you handle unclear or inadequate instructions in Van's
manual, make sure no steps get missed, and keep you from having to undo work
because you find out you should have done something else earlier.
The instructions are intended for the average builder who does not have access
to the more expensive tools, does not intend to build a show plane, and does
not have a lot of airplane building skills. The are also designed to produce an
airplane that is as close as possible to what Dick VanGrunsven intended. The
descriptions of a large number of the operations are derived from other local
builders and this internet list, but only those that follow the above
philosophy.
There are no instructions for the rudder or vertical stabilizer since I didn't
start writing until I got to the elevators. Unfortunately laying out the rudder
was one of the most confusing parts of the airplane before the prepunched kits
became available but I could not get any volunteers to write this up for me.
At the moment the instructions go up through most of the finish work but will
not include things like the engine and instruments installation because
everybody does theirs differently and there are numerous books on these
subjects.
I am still making minor changes to all of the manual as I run across things in
my own project that I should have done differently. I also pick up hints from
this list but I do not have time to read all the postings so many good pointers
are probably missed. I do ask that people have have a good idea address it
directly to me, Frank_K_Justice(at)ccm.co.intel.com or frank(at)ssd.intel.com so I
will be sure to see it.
The manual is available on John Hovan's web site,
http://rv.austin.apple.com/jhovan/home/home.html
For those of you without a web browser I can send out a diskette in Word
for Windows format.
FKJ
Text item: External Message Header
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Subject: RV-List: Justice Manual?
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 17:12:47 -0500
From: aol.com!Robbdog(at)matronics.com
ay.jf.intel.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA15028 for Subject: | Re: rocky mtn |
From: | ron.taborek(at)flight642.com (RON TABOREK) |
Craig,
I bought and built a Rocky Mountain MicroEncoder. It is a fine
instrument and I got good support from the company. Their engine
monitor was a prime contender for my engine instruments as well.
I would suggest you might give some thought to the Audio Flight Avionics
AV-10, which I ultimately bought.
Comparing the two, the RMI is a rectangular, multi function display
kit, the AFA is a pre-built 3 1/8" circular display of one parameter at
a time, scrolled manually or automatically. The AFA will scan
and warn of more parameters than the RMI. It also gives audio warnings
if limits are exceeded or periodic audio assurances that all is within
limits. The price is about half the RMIs. The company is local here so
I have met Rod Long, the president, and had good support. For example,
I was wondering what to do with all the measurement channels and
decided to use water temp to measure fuel temp. No big reason to do
so, it was just possible so I did it. They adjusted the software
labelling to reflect that.
If you are interested their Email address is afa(at)user.rose.com
There are a lot of interesting choices in this area these days.
Ron Taborek RV-4 Installing O-320 Toronto ron.taborek(at)flight642.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
Subject: | Re: Justice Manual? |
Rob,
Its available via Hovans RV page at http://rv.austin.apple.com/jhovan/home.html
It is for construction of a RV-6 and is based on a kit before any
pre-punch, but it is a good supplement to the Vans manual.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>Hi,
>Just starting my -4 and wanted to know more information on the Frank Justice
>manuals.
>Thanks in advance
>Rob
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Best of the RV-ator supplement pages almost sold out |
TO THOSE WHO HAVE THE ORIGINAL 14 YEARS OF THE RV-ATOR BOOK:
As we advertised, the RV-Ator supplement pages to add the years 1994 - '95 to
the older 14 year books would be available only through December. However
there are still about 20 sets left. This is your last chance to get the
supplement pages. Once they are gone, they are gone. The supplement page sets
will not be reprinted. The supplement sets are $16 and can be ordered by
e-mail with a Mastercard or Visa.
This note does pertain to the current and complete 16 YEARS OF THE RV-ATOR
book. The current 16 year book (1980-1995) will be available till around
February 1998.
Thanks
Andy Gold RV-6A - finishing cowling
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BestBillO(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Engine monitors |
I have been flying with the VM-1000 for 2 + years and have been quite
pleased. When I calculated what each instrument would have cost if purchased
individually, the VM1000 was actually a bit cheaper, not to mention saving
space. That is, of course, if you would have purchased all of the
instruments anyway. I've had to replace a couple of "sending units", but
overall the service and quality have been excellent.
By the way, I only wish I had a moving map the size of the VM1000. The new
Cirrus has one that supposedly will also include engine instruments. Now, if
we could only get Vision Microsystems to upgrade their instrument....
Bill Orcutt, RV-6A BestBillO(at)AOL.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mark LaBoyteaux <tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | Re: Questions about top of F-606 |
> The F-688 has been included in the kit
> (other parts not used in the slider are not included...). Is the F-688
> gusset used with the slider?
Yes it is.
> 2. If F-688 is used, it would seem to cause a step under the top skin as the
> F-688 is on top of the F-606 and F-687. Is this a problem? (This would seem
> to be relevant to the tip-up as well...)
Well, I worried about that, too. So what I did, was to make a shim the
same thickness as the F-688 that runs the full length of F-687 to
alleviate a possible step in the top skin. I installed this at the same
time that I located and drilled the F-687 to F-606 and -607. Now, when
you locate the slide ass'y for the canopy, it is attached with #6 screws
that go through the skin, the shim, and F-687.
> 3. There is no dimension shown on SC-1 for where the C-664 threaded rod used
> to adjust the front part of the C-662/663 track goes through the F-606
> bulkhead. If the plans are to scale, it looks like this hole will end up
> near the bottom of the F-687 rib flange. Is that correct? Is that the one
> place I need to avoid putting a rivet in the top F-606 joint?
Well, I'm about to drill mine today, and yes it's a problem. I've got 2
flush rivets in this area that hold the F-606 pieces together, and I'm
going to have to drill the 1/4" hole right between them. If I had known
about it earlier, I would have left more space between them.
> 4. There is a joggle in the flange of the F-606 pieces, a little over an
> inch wide (half in each half of the F-606 bulkhead), located at the top
> center of the bulkhead. I can't seem to find anything on the plans that
> shows what this joggle is for. Am I missing something?
These "joggles" as you call them are to allow clearance of the top
flanges when you overlap the two top pieces for assembly. Oh yea, the
bottom rivets that hold the top pieces together will need to be flush in
order to provide clearance for the F-652. See sheet 37.
> Tom Goeddel
> RV-6a (lets see... 1 week per hole X 13000 holes... ugh...)
> tgoeddel(at)monmouth.com (home)
> goeddel(at)lucent.com (work)
If you think your spending hours puzzling over it now, just wait till
you start the canopy! Good luck.
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6a working on sliding canopy
tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation Sites on Internet |
www.matronics.com
has a 'links' page, with sites gathered from members of this list.
www.edt.com/homewing
is the "Van's Air Force, Home Wing home page, and also has a list
of links to other rv/homebuilt/aviation sites.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
Subject: | Re: Justice Manual? |
>The instructions are intended to supplement rather than replace the
>constructiona manual that comes from Van's with the kits. They are text
only (no
>pictures) to make them easier for everybody to make use of. The general
idea is
>to have a set of steps that when followed in order will keep you from making
>common mistakes, help you handle unclear or inadequate instructions in Van's
>manual, make sure no steps get missed, and keep you from having to undo work
>because you find out you should have done something else earlier.
>
>The instructions are intended for the average builder who does not have access
>to the more expensive tools, does not intend to build a show plane, and does
>not have a lot of airplane building skills. The are also designed to
produce an
>airplane that is as close as possible to what Dick VanGrunsven intended. The
>descriptions of a large number of the operations are derived from other local
>builders and this internet list, but only those that follow the above
>philosophy.
>
>There are no instructions for the rudder or vertical stabilizer since I didn't
>start writing until I got to the elevators. Unfortunately laying out the
rudder
>was one of the most confusing parts of the airplane before the prepunched kits
>became available but I could not get any volunteers to write this up for me.
Ahhhh... I wondered about the lack of those sections.
Those people building a prepunched kit (and possibly also the others) may
want to look at my "Bunny's Guide to Building an RV". So far, it covers the
HS and VS, plus a little on the rudder and elevator. I think/hope it is more
useful for a novice builder than FKJ's manual, and it is more in the form of
notes, explanations, and clarifications of the Van's manual than
step-by-step instructions. Apart from that, it follows FKJ's philosophy as
outlined above.
The Bunny's Guide warns of mistakes that *I* made, and my solutions. Since I
haven't made *every* possible mistake and probably haven't adopted the best
solutions, I solicit other people's experiences for inclusion in the Guide.
The Bunny's Guide is available from http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/bunny.htm
Hope this helps somebody,
Frank.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | RV Web Page Update |
From: | John Hovan <hovan(at)apple.com> |
Hi All,
The last chapter of the Frank Justice RV Builders manual was posted =
to the RV web page last week. The web address is...
"rv.austin.apple.com/jhovan/home.html"
If you are experiencing slow response times, please be patient. RV =
enthusiasm is running high! Here are some stats on the web page...
=80 On average there is one access every three minutes for RV info.
=80 The web server serves up in excess of 5 Gigabytes of RV data per =
day. (You read this right 5 gigs of RV data per day. Hello Van's =
Aircraft...the web is helping your company!!)
=80 Maximum simultaneous users per day is 9 users.
=80 Average people reading data per hour is 25 users.
thanks,
John
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "James E. Clark" <James.E.Clark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: BAC kits and buildtimes (chatter) |
If you go with the QB, you may wish to punch your own skins as there are
some pieces that are already "anchored" in the fuselage. Everything
**might** fit just fine, but if it didn't, the last thing I would think you
would want to be doing is rearranging the fine work on the QB just as you
are coming familiar with the fine art of measuring, cutting, drilling, etc.
(Of course I am assuming you are not already a seasoned pro ... no offense
meant if you are already).
If you have the $$, I would say let somebody else worry about slipping on
the snow and ice delivering it. Spend your time getting ready for it.
James
James.E.Clark(at)worldnet.att.net
RV6AQ (N?????) --- Fuselage Skins
Archer II (N8211S) --- Flying
----------
> From: Jeff Davis <ford.com!jdavis1(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: (Fwd) RV-List: BAC kits and buildtimes (chatter)
> Date: Monday, January 06, 1997 7:14 AM
>
> I am just completing my empennage (RV6 non-prepunched) and am getting
serious
> about ordering the rest of the kit. I am a little confused between the
options
> available. Can someone explain the difference between the prepunched,
quick
> build and the options available from BAC?
>
> * If you order a quick build do you need any of the services offered by
BAC or
> is it only for the prepunced kits??
>
> * If I do go with a quick build (First Choice) what is the best way to
have it
> delivered (or should I pick it up)? (I live in Michigan)
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
>
> --
> Jeffrey S. Davis - Phone (313)845-5224
> Senior Research Engineer
> Advance Vehicle Technology
> Ford Motor Company
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
Subject: | Bill's damaged RV6 |
Bill, that was an incredible story about your RV being run over
by the Chevy (per your story in the RVator).
I wonder what the odds are of that happening are (putting your plane
in a friends hangar the day a car's transmission pops into reverse
and heads across the airport for YOUR airplane)?
I am glad you had it insured an no one was hurt.
Thanks for all the great articles in the RVator. I think you went
a little too far to get this story however :-).
Herman
> Bill
> RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
> flying hours.
> These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
> position of my employer.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
Subject: | RVs ready to fly in 97 |
Sorry I forgot to include my email address.
Would those who expect to have their RVs flying in 1997, let me know :
1. The estimated date of first flight.
2. If they hope to go to Oshkosh in 97
I will post the list when it is available.
John Cocker. C-GDOC
jcocker(at)medhumor.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Allan W. Mojzisik" <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
Subject: | wire-feed welding |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBFBF0.BE416460
If you make that switch you should use straight Argon and you will =
probably need a hand spool gun. ($$$) I'm still looking for an =
inexpensive used one. The Alum. wire is too soft to thread through the =
wire feed cable. You will probably be better off paying someone if thats =
all you need to do. I haven't had any luck welding Alum. with my Henrob =
but I haven't tried that much either. I'm sure it is all technique and =
the right alloy's. Al prober(at)iwaynet.net
Consider adding argon / CO2 mixture gas and switching to core-less =
wire
- Much nicer results
Larry
--=20
Larry D. Hoatson lhoatson(at)empirenet.com Yucaipa, CA (L12)
Restoring 1950 Cessna 170A N9948A
Looking forward to RV6Q
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BBFBF0.BE416460--
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <72770.552(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Subject: | Identifying the "Adel" clamp |
I've seen some conversation recently concerning "Adel" clamps and their suitability
for use
around fuel, high temps, etc. I've pulled the specs and will excerpt some of their
contents as follows:
The "Adel" clamp is more properly called an MS21919 aircraft clamp. The company
named Adel
built a goodly portion of the MS21919 clamps back in the 60's (and may still).
The term
sort of stuck on these devices in spite of the fact that they are now made by dozens
of
companies.
The full description for these clamps follows the convention MS21919XXZZ
where XX (the two letters immediately following the specification number) have
the
following significance:
DE = Aluminum band, Ethylene Propylene Cushion (212F)
DF = Aluminum band, Nitrile Cushion (212F)
DG = Aluminum band, Chloroprene Cushion (212F)
CE = Corrosion Resistant Steel band, Ethylene Propylene Cushion (275F)
CF = Corrosion Resistant Steel band, Nitrile Propylene Cushion (200F)
CH = Corrosion Resistant Steel band, Silicone Cushion (400F)
CG = Corrosion Resistant Steel band, Chloroprene Cushion (212F)
CJ = Corrosion Resistant Steel band, Fluorosilicone Cushion (450F)
F = Low Carbon Steel Band, Nitrile Cushion (212F) (Note 1)
G = Low Carbon Steel Band, Chloroprene Cushion (212F) (Note 1)
H = Low Carbon Steel Band, Silicon Cushion (400F) (Note 1)
Cushion Application and Color Information:
Ethylene Propylene - for use in areas contaminated with phosphate ester hydraulic
fluid and
other synthetic fluids. Excellent ozone resistance., Not resistant to petroleum
based
fluids. Color shall be solid purple.
Nitrile - for use primarily in fuel immersion and fuel vapors. Good ozone resistance.
Not
resistant to phosphate-ester based fluids. Not for use on titanium tubing. Color
shall be
solid yellow.
Chloroprene - for general purpose use in areas contaminated with petroleum based
hydraulic
fluids and occasional fuel splash. Excellent ozone resistant. Not resistant to
phosphate
ester based fluids. Not for use on titanium tubing. Color shall be black with
a blue
identifier patch.
Silicone - for elevated temperature usage in phosphate ester based fluid and other
synthetic
fluid contaminated areas. Unaffected by ozone. Not resistant to petroleum based
fluids.
Color shall be natural white.
Fluorosilicone - for elevated temperature usage in petroleum based fluid contaminated
areas. Unaffected by ozone. Not resistant to phosphate-ester based fluids. Color
shall be
solid blue.
Note 1. Clamps with low carbon steel bands are not recommended for new design
and most were purged from stocks back in early 80's . . . however . . . you never
know what might show up in the Fly-Market at OSH so I've included the "heads up"
here.
-------------------------------
The last characters (ZZ) are digits describing the internal diameter of the closed
clamp in
1/16ths of an inch. E.G. an MS21219DG4 is aluminum strap inside a chloroprene cushion
and
sized to support 1/4" diameter bundle of wires, tubing, etc.
I note that the spec does not speak to the "red" cushions currently being discussed.
I
recall seeing a number of clamps with red cushions over the years but quite frankly,
I
don't know if they were MS21919 or perhaps some other part number. It's also possible
that
the red cushions are very old surplus that are now obsolete (at least in terms
of the
specification) and are simply no longer described. As I recall, the red critters
are softer
and remind me of silicon based rubber . . . . if so, the red cushion clamps are
indeed
unsuitable for use around areas wet with fuel and/or grease. However, these ARE
the
cushions of choice for use in high temperature areas. I'll dig around the bins
here at Raytheon and see if I can get an indentity on the "red" cushion clamps.
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========oOOo=(_)=oOOo==========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | barnhart(at)a.crl.com (Dave Barnhart) |
Subject: | Re: Leaf spring gear? |
>I believe I read some where, regarding the RV6A air beetle project getting
>alum leaf spring gear. It seems a natural upgrade to the current RV6 series
>to me. Couldn't a this open up a engine mount which holds a nose wheel, and
>the tail dragger mounts, at the same time, plus leaf mounts on the belly/spar
>offering owners the options to switch around?
>
>I for one desire (am building) an RV6 final flyer. But I'd love to
>train/start the RV experience in an RV6A. Care to discuss?
I think what you're talking about is the possibility of modifying the RV-6
design so that you could switch back-and-forth between tailwheel and
nosewheel configurations. I think there are too many subtle differences
between the -6 and the -6A to make that feasable. SOme that I can think of
right off the top of my head are:
1. Brake line routing.
2. F612: tailsprint mount vs tie-down ring
3. slot in bottom of -6A cowling for nosegear
I bet I could think of some more if I tried.
Usually, this sort of discussion is prompted by the lack of tailwheel
experience. If that is the case, don't worry about it. Go get 10 hrs of
tailwheel transition training in a Champ, and you'll have no problems.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
rv-6 sn 23744
Engine Mount
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BARNES_ERIC(at)tandem.com |
As an RV-8 builder, I'm wondering, is a BAC kit offered/in the works for
the -8? If so, how much of what goes into the current BAC kit is now
being done by Van's (if anything)?
I know the pre-built spars are standard with the -8, but is there also
more layout/pre-pundhing being done? Anyone have enough knowledge of
both the BAC kit, and the new RV-8 wing kits to shed some light on this
comparison?
Thanks,
EB #80131 Empennage
barnes_eric(at)tandem.com
------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT --------
SENT 01-05-97 FROM SMTPGATE (McManD(at)aol.com)
I speak for two, first time, non experienced RV6 builders here within 10
miles of one another. We purchased (2) the complete fast build assemblies as
we knew it @ 1.5 years ago, prior to Van's offering the complete factory fast
build.
We are 100% completely satisfied with Phlogistions spars (@$795), BAC quick
build components (@$1500) and BAC deluxe assembly kits (@ $2200). The 3rd
service is not all that well known? Purchasing all 3, your spar and complete
wing kit goes directly from Van's AC to BAC Calif. There BAC completely
transforms the wing kit into a total prepunched, pre fitted, dry fit
assembly. Adding in these 3 options, you get delivered wing kits all
prepunched, at 99% of the locations. All you do is jig it up and with in
hours, you are ready to fit your pre-punched skins. Now you've got a tight
fitting jig saw puzzle well marked, plus suplemental plan verbage and CAD
drawings in tough to understand areas. Steve Barnard will go out of his way
to answer questions you may have and stands by his products, as noted in
other RVlist memos.
True first time builders would have to fill in the true hours expended here
but the addition of @ $4500 works out to @ $10 per hour. I calculated
savings in hours at 50 hr for spars, 150 BAC quick build and 250 in wing kit?
While I doubt I'll end up with a show plane, my wings, with great flap gaps,
alieron fits, fuel tank fits, F604 to F605 gap right on B/P dim, back riveted
skin surfaces, on and on, I couldn't be prouder of. They all came out
great, with fewer asprin breaks compared to other sections I've built. Mind
you my tail and fuselage have/are coming out pretty good too. If BAC were to
offer a fuselage kit, I would have bought it too.
I'm told from advanced RV fellow, flyer/builders we are fast builders
(really???) but here would be my accounting for my build times so far. (Note
I 100% prime a kit right out of the box, and touch up later as required).
Empennage kit (old style, not prepunched) @ 284 hours
4/15/95 rec'd, 99% complete 10/3/95, 276 my hours, 7.5 assisted hours, 50
work sessions, avg 5.67 hrs/day. @165 days spent. (note I waited to long
prior to ordering wings, I sat at the end of this section and puttered around
a lot).
Wings (Deluxe build kit prepped wings) @ 306 Hours (kit = @ 590 hr
so far)
10/30/95 rec'd, Left wing, flap and aileron asm'y, 95% completed by 1/10/96,
159 my hours, 37.5 assisted hours, 33 work sessions, avg 5.95 hrs/day. @70
days spent.
1/13/96 started on Right wing, flap and aileron asm'y, 95% completed by
3/21/96, 90.5 my hours, 18.5 assisted hours, 33 work sessions, avg 5.95
hrs/day. @70 days spent. (note I rec'd and primed 85% fuselage kit in
here and built a Fuselage jig in here also).
Fuselage @ 90% comlete to date, @ 309 hours (kit = @ 856 hr so far)
broken down as:
4/20/96 started, skeleton completed 6/16/96 at @ 120 hours.
by 8/12/96, all skins fitted and back riveted on, at @ 85 hours later.
8/14/96, removed from jig, started top side work. @ 107 hours to date
additional.
Up to canopy frame fitting and dash board construction details now
1/5/96
David McManmon, RV6, 0320H2AD, Tip up,
Cicero, NY E mail McManD(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
Does anyone know where Bernie Warnke is. I've called several times only
to get his answering machine.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Barry & Valerie Wawrin <barval(at)digital.net> |
Subject: | Sport Aviation Sites on Internet |
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBFC02.914D0A60
Chris these:
http://www.aircraft-spruce.com/index.html
http://www.sky.net/~kvap/kcrv1295.html
http://www.landings.com/
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker/
http://sportflyer.com/
http://www.edt.com/homewing/homecoming.html
Enjoy,
barry - still dreaming // RV-6A
----------
From: aol.com!N595CM(at)matronics.com[SMTP:aol.com!N595CM(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 1997 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Sport Aviation Sites on Internet
I am fairly new to the internet, Where are some sites that would be of
interest to sport and experimental pilots?
Chris May
RV-4 N595CM
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBFC02.914D0A60
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BBFC02.914D0A60--
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Subject: | engine overhaul, chapter one |
Here's a report of my engine overhaul. Because my modem has an RPI (Runs
Pretty Inconsistently) chipset, I will have to send this in two pcs of Email.
Please be patient. And remember to avoid Rockwell modems- they're trouble.
I just got the engine (and the bill) today. To set the stage, let me point
out that the engine was a first-run with 1994 hrs TT, pulled from a C-172 for
a Penn Yan 180 hp upgrade. I bought the core from a local and trusted A&P
(not the one who overhauled it for me) who assured me it was a well cared-for
and strong-running engine that should give several hundred more hours of
trouble-free service before needing an overhaul; in other words, a lucky
find. Turns out he was right, but I knew the hours remaining on the engine
might be trouble-free but they would never be worry-free unless we did a
tear-down. And since overhauls tend to take awhile and I was over a year
from finished with the airframe, I decided to go for it. I got off cheaper
than usual because so many parts were still within new limits- a tribute to
AeroShell 15W-50, frequentl oil changes and other meticulous maintenance on
this non-trainer aircraft. Don't expect these results if you have a core in
worse shape or insist on keeping the paperwork "certified." Yellow tags and
other red tape cost much more that green tags and magnafluxing done at the
local speed shop, etc. I am told that once an engine is installed in a
noncertified environment, i.e. on an experimental airplane, the engine is no
longer legal for use in a certified application until it is re-yellow-tagged
anyhow, so why bother chasing expensive paper?? (I'll bet that starts a
thread!)
To be continued...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Bill's damaged RV6 |
<< Bill, that was an incredible story about your RV being run over
by the Chevy (per your story in the RVator).
I wonder what the odds are of that happening are (putting your plane
in a friends hangar the day a car's transmission pops into reverse
and heads across the airport for YOUR airplane)?
I am glad you had it insured an no one was hurt.
Thanks for all the great articles in the RVator. I think you went
a little too far to get this story however :-).
Herman >>
Herman-
I believe it was Ken's RV-6 that got munched, not Bill's. Still sad though.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au> |
Hi all.
I have just been installing the front side fuse. skins and came across a
'GOOD SIDE'ink stamp on the white plastic covering. (Needless to say that I
had cut out the slot for the rear spar attachment point before I had noticed
it and of course the mark was on the inside))
Is there a good side in Al sheets?
Should it facew inside or outside?
The other sheet has the normal manufacture's marks, but no Van's 'GOOD SIDE'
stamp.
I've got this far and have never seen this mark before.
Thanks
Royce (I only have good sides) Craven
roycec(at)ozemail.com.au
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Paul Osterman III" <PineRanch(at)msn.com> |
Subject: | BAC kits and buildtimes (chatter) |
Jeffrey S. Davis wrote:
Can someone explain the difference between the prepunched, quick
build and the options available from BAC?* If you order a quick build do you
need any of the services offered by BAC or is it only for the prepunced
kits??*
Jeff,
the wing kits from Vans now come with the skins pre-punched and this is
included in his price. The BAC fast build kit ($1495) computer punches or
machines 170+ parts. They are cut to size, drilled and are ready to install.
Most are gold anodized and identified by name of the part and part number. His
kit also included several drawings that helped clarify some of Vans drawings.
This kit, together with the phlogiston spar realy enable you to begin
constructing/assembling the wing when you take delivery. The deluxe kit
additionally drills out the main spar, rear spar, flap and aileron spars, wing
tank structure...but you have to get the pholgiston spar for the deluxe
option. Ask Vans for a flyer, or call BAC 916 631-3672. I'm not building a
fast build kit from Vans, so I'll leave a description of that to others.
Paul Osterman
RV6A working on flaps
Anderson, CA
PineRanch(at)msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
Subject: | Re: Bill's damaged RV6?? |
Just to get the facts straight, it was Ken's RV-6! Bill is the one putting
an O-360 in his RV-4 that seems to be taking forever. Of course, if you
spend your evenings enjoying the net, nothing will get done. It is warmer
and drier sitting at a keyboard than working on an engine installation. PS:
Ken and I (Bill) look a lot alike, but I'm the better looking one
(questionable)!
> Bill, that was an incredible story about your RV being run over
> by the Chevy (per your story in the RVator).
> I wonder what the odds are of that happening are (putting your plane
> in a friends hangar the day a car's transmission pops into reverse
> and heads across the airport for YOUR airplane)?
> I am glad you had it insured an no one was hurt.
>
> Thanks for all the great articles in the RVator. I think you went
> a little too far to get this story however :-).
> Herman
>
>> Bill
>> RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
>> flying hours.
>> These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
>> position of my employer.
>>
>>
>
>
>
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
Subject: | Re: Quickbuild facts. |
>I am just completing my empennage (RV6 non-prepunched) and am getting serious
>about ordering the rest of the kit. I am a little confused between the options
>available. Can someone explain the difference between the prepunched, quick
>build and the options available from BAC?
>
>* If you order a quick build do you need any of the services offered by BAC or
> is it only for the prepunced kits??
>
>* If I do go with a quick build (First Choice) what is the best way to have it
>delivered (or should I pick it up)? (I live in Michigan)
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
>
>--
>Jeffrey S. Davis - Phone (313)845-5224
>Senior Research Engineer
>Advance Vehicle Technology
>Ford Motor Company
Jeff, This one sounds like a natural for me. The BAC kits would only be
applicable if you were building from the standard kits. Those who have used
them seem to compliment Steve (BAC) and his kits. I have inspected several
projects where the BAC's have been used and they tend to establish a quality
level that you strive for as you build. In this case, money is the only
object. I'm sure others will comment about the kits.
The quickbuild has no after market direct helpers. You need to remember
that we are approaching the 49% point, and any large helpers may put you
over the magical 49% point, at which point you may not get the repairmans
certificate or if the FAA wants to be sticky, you may not get an
airworthiness certificate. Your completed aircraft could be used for a
windsock, but not much more! Fortunately, the FAA is willing to work with
us rather than against us at this time. The real advantage of the
quickbuild is that you start with something that resembles an aircraft. You
can sit in it and make airplane noises. This is really good therapy and
keeps you motivated. As far as coming out to pick it up --- a significant
number of people have done just that. By the time you pay for the crating
and transportation for the kit, you are looking at between $1500-2000. You
could take that money, a little vacation time and use some airline miles
for a free ride out, rent a truck and head for home. A 24' U-Haul or
Budget works great. $39/day, but the mileage charges may eat you up.
Still a pleasant trip unless you run into a snow storm. I think winter
traveling is relaxing and enjoyable because of the limited number of people
on the roads. We have several quickbuilds that could be available before
you could get your airline travel arranged, but the finish kits are a 12-13
week wait. However, we can always send the available finish parts home
with the quickbuild and UPS or truck the long lead items when your slot in
the "Que" pops up. Bill.
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Donald Wasnesky" <Wirecruise(at)msn.com> |
Subject: | E-mail for RV aircraft |
To whom it may concern,
Please remove my E-mail address from your mailing list. The address is
Wirecruise(at)MSN.com.
Thanks,
Don Wasnesky
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | GHLX34A(at)prodigy.com (MR GEORGE T KILISHEK) |
Jeff:
There are a number of -8 builders on the RV-list. They, and the
other guys building -4s and -6s have been most helpful to those of us
who are trying to do this thing right but don't know how.
George Kilishek
RV-8 SN 80006
Flaps, ailerons almost complete
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tom Goeddel <tgoeddel(at)monmouth.com> |
Subject: | Re: Questions about top of F-606 |
Thanks to all who responded to my questions on the F-606 bulkhead. I did
notice a disturbing trend in the responses, however:
> If you think your spending hours puzzling over it now, just wait till
>you start the canopy! Good luck.
>Mark LaBoyteaux
>No, you're in sketchy plans and manuals territory, particularly the
>sliding canopy dwgs
>Peter Bennett
>That's because the instructions get skimpier as you go along. Just wait
>till you start on the sliding canopy ;-)
>Dave Barnhart
I can hardly wait...
Tom Goeddel
RV-6oc (open cockpit...)
tgoeddel(at)monmouth.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Subject: | engine overhaul experience, chapter two |
Please see earlier post for introduction.
Engine: Lycoming O-320-E2D 1994 hrs TTSN/ first run. Vintage 1974
Status at teardown: excessive wear in the top rings and ring grooves of all
4 cyls. this was beyond service limits. Oil pump A/D not complied with.
(Powdered metal gear.) No fuel pump pad on accessory case. Operable mags
removed when engine taken out of service and replaced with high-time Slick
"throw-away" mags by shrewd mechanic who sold the others for a nice profit.
"Why send good cores to Penn Yan?!" Starter in good shape- better keep it
for ballast, might need some fwd weight. No vacuum pump present, none
wanted. No alternator. Carb butterfly shaft has excessive play. NO
INTERIOR RUST ANYWHERE, even after 5 months of substandard pickling in my
garage.
Engine core
price..................................................................5,000
Starter core
price.....................................................................150
******************************************************************************
**
Accessory case exchange (to get fuel pump capability)...............100
Mag gear impulse
exch.............................................................100
New Slick Magneto (exch 2 old
cores)........................................340
Electro-Air ignition kit (replaces one
mag)...................................790
Accessory gear/cam for fuel pump
(exch.)....................................75
Fuel
Pump..........................................................................
.....125
Fuel pump push pin
...................................................................65
Carburetor overhaul parts as
req'd...............................................170
Aluminum oil pump gear & housing* (used)...................................60
Intake hoses
(4)..........................................................................1
5
Oil drainback
hose......................................................................10
Gasket & seal set (excludes rocker cover gaskets)......................100
Crankshaft magnaflux and polish (still in new specs)......................30
Rocker shafts, new
(4).................................................................70
Pistons, new
(4).........................................................................20
0
Rings (4
sets).........................................................................
...175
Wrist pins w/
plugs.....................................................................100
Rod bearings
(8)...........................................................................
45
main bearings
(8)........................................................................125
Face exh. flanges, 4 cyls.
............................................................25
exhaust guides
..........................................................................100
grind & seat valves
.......................................................................20
Exhaust valves, new
(4)................................................................500
Paint engine and mount Lycoming grey enamel................................50
Inspection and dye check of case, cylinders, honing of cyl. barrels,
magnaflux inspection of crankshaft gear, idler gears & shafts, cam-
shaft; cadmium plating of all steel hardware, rocker covers, intake
tubes**
..............................................................................
......315
Labor (excl. machinework subbed out as
above).............................1400
Credit for vacuum drive
parts.......................................................... (55)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------
Total overhaul / ignition upgrade
cost.............................................5050
plus core charges for engine and
starter.....5150
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
$
10,200
To be continued.......
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Engine overhaul, chapter 3 |
* converts oil pump to the pre-1970's design, before the FAA helped Lycoming
make all the "improvements" that led to all the engine failures and all the
A/D's. This is not an option if you wish to keep the engine in "certified"
condition for resale (who'd want to sell an RV??)
** makes the steel parts sparkle like gold gilt. resists rust and looks
neat. Hey, it was only $100 extra and I like it that way, okay?
My experience with Bob Barrows and his little overhaul shop in the woods, R&B
Aircraft Co. was 100% positive with lots of good fellowship, a very patient
teacher, and a man who knows how to look out for his customer's interest. It
will be a pleasure to have him over to supervise the final stages of
construction as my EAA tech counselor and new friend. The process took about
6-7 months. It was an Inspect/repair/replace as necessary overhaul. All
used parts were within service limits; most still within new limits. Next
time around for this engine I'm sure the jugs will need repair/replacement
rether than just inspection, etc. But I'll bet we make it to TBO again this
run. Hope this helps those who are at this stage...
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | J.Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (J.Ken Hitchmough) |
Subject: | Re: Where's Bernie |
rv-list(at)matronics.com,Internet writes:
Does anyone know where Bernie Warnke is. I've called several times only
to get his answering machine.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
Chet, I've left messages for 2 months and he hasn't returned mine
either. Hope everything's ok!
Ken
j.ken_hitchmough(at)mail.magic.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Lauritsen" <clevtool(at)tdsi.net> |
Subject: | Cleaveland's Web Page |
Hi everyone,
Finally after working off and on for a year and a half we have our web page
"done". It's nothing fancy but it does have part numbers, prices and
descriptions... no pictures yet. The online order form does not yet work,
and the domain name "cleavelandtool.com" is not hooked up thanks to my
service provider, but you can take a look at this address
"http://www.tdsi.net/~clevtool/. Please send me your comments and what
else you would like to see. (please e-mail me directly not through the list
@ clevtool(at)tdsi.net)
Thanks,
Mike Lauritsen
Cleaveland Aircraft Tool
1804 First St.
Boone, IA 50036
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jeff Davis" <jdavis1(at)ford.com> |
Subject: | Re: Quickbuild facts. |
I would like to thank all that provided assistance regarding kit options. I am
planning on ordering my Quick Build kit minus empennage (already complete) this
week.
>Jeff, This one sounds like a natural for me. The BAC kits would only be
>applicable if you were building from the standard kits. Those who have used
>them seem to compliment Steve (BAC) and his kits. I have inspected several
>projects where the BAC's have been used and they tend to establish a quality
>level that you strive for as you build. In this case, money is the only
>object. I'm sure others will comment about the kits.
>The quickbuild has no after market direct helpers. You need to remember
>that we are approaching the 49% point, and any large helpers may put you
>over the magical 49% point, at which point you may not get the repairmans
>certificate or if the FAA wants to be sticky, you may not get an
>airworthiness certificate. Your completed aircraft could be used for a
>windsock, but not much more! Fortunately, the FAA is willing to work with
>us rather than against us at this time. The real advantage of the
>quickbuild is that you start with something that resembles an aircraft. You
>can sit in it and make airplane noises. This is really good therapy and
>keeps you motivated. As far as coming out to pick it up --- a significant
>number of people have done just that. By the time you pay for the crating
>and transportation for the kit, you are looking at between $1500-2000. You
>could take that money, a little vacation time and use some airline miles
>for a free ride out, rent a truck and head for home. A 24' U-Haul or
>Budget works great. $39/day, but the mileage charges may eat you up.
>Still a pleasant trip unless you run into a snow storm. I think winter
>traveling is relaxing and enjoyable because of the limited number of people
>on the roads. We have several quickbuilds that could be available before
>you could get your airline travel arranged, but the finish kits are a 12-13
>week wait. However, we can always send the available finish parts home
>with the quickbuild and UPS or truck the long lead items when your slot in
>the "Que" pops up. Bill.
>Bill
>RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
>flying hours.
>These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
>position of my employer.
---End of forwarded mail from rv-list(at)matronics.com
--
Jeffrey S. Davis - Phone (313)845-5224
Senior Research Engineer
Advance Vehicle Technology
Ford Motor Company
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
Subject: | Re: Bill's damaged RV6?? |
I am sorry. Yes it is Ken. I did not have my newsletter here and
somehow I associated you as the same person 'from Vans'. Herman
> Just to get the facts straight, it was Ken's RV-6! Bill is the one putting
> an O-360 in his RV-4 that seems to be taking forever. Of course, if you
> spend your evenings enjoying the net, nothing will get done. It is warmer
> and drier sitting at a keyboard than working on an engine installation. PS:
> Ken and I (Bill) look a lot alike, but I'm the better looking one
> (questionable)!
>
>
> > Bill, that was an incredible story about your RV being run over
> > by the Chevy (per your story in the RVator).
> > I wonder what the odds are of that happening are (putting your plane
> > in a friends hangar the day a car's transmission pops into reverse
> > and heads across the airport for YOUR airplane)?
> > I am glad you had it insured an no one was hurt.
> >
> > Thanks for all the great articles in the RVator. I think you went
> > a little too far to get this story however :-).
> > Herman
> >
> >> Bill
> >> RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
> >> flying hours.
> >> These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
> >> position of my employer.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
> Bill
> RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
> flying hours.
> These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
> position of my employer.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Morristec(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Active Noise Cancelation in the cabin. |
Bill,
I have worked with Lord on certifying the ANC system for the cabins of
turboprops, jets, and helicopters. The system is mostly effective in damping
prop noise, and can be very effective in some circumstances, and not so good
in others. But the real bottom line is the cost and weight. A typical
turboprop system STARTS at about $50K and 70 lbs. I think the headsets are
pretty cheap in comparison.
Dan Morris
RV6
Morristec(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | Re: Quickbuild facts. |
>for a free ride out, rent a truck and head for home. A 24' U-Haul or
>Budget works great. $39/day, but the mileage charges may eat you up.
Hertz/Penske charged me $359 (weekly flat rate, *unlimited* mileage),
providing a significant savings.
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q project:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker
(last update 12/23/96 - Oshkosh '96 RV pictures)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Martinph(at)cyberbury.net |
RV>George Kilishek
RV>RV-8 SN 80006
RV>Flaps, ailerons almost complete
george send me your e mail address so we dont fill up the list with
chatter .
thanks
jeff rv8
martinphcyberbury.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | BAC kits and buildtimes (chatter) |
> If you order a quick build do you
>need any of the services offered by BAC or is it only for the prepunced
>kits??*
>
> I'm not building a
>fast build kit from Vans, so I'll leave a description of that to others.
>
With the quickbuild, you need *no* options as the airframe is about 90%
complete upon delivery. The extra $3K premium over the complete BAC
offering make it far more cost effective, IMHO.
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q project:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker
(last update 12/23/96 - Oshkosh '96 RV pictures)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Smith, Hal" <smith1h(at)macsmtpgw.spring-branch.isd.tenet.edu> |
Subject: | Best of the RV-ator supplement pages almost sold out |
I would like to order the supplement set for $16 dollars. Do you have a
mailing address. I do not like to use my mastercard through e-mail. Please
answer by my e-mail address below.
Thanks,
Hal Smith smith1h@spring-branch.isd.tenet.edu
_______________________________________________________________________________
TO THOSE WHO HAVE THE ORIGINAL 14 YEARS OF THE RV-ATOR BOOK:
. The supplement sets are $16 and can be ordered by
e-mail with a Mastercard or Visa.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
Subject: | Direct Reply (Was Van's Isspro....) |
>(If everyone would sign their posts as above, we would know who we are
talking to and it would make it a lot easier to post a reply to the sender
instead of the list)
Hey Bob:
The value of this list is that the responses are available to every one and
we all l can benefit from the wisdom of the people that respond. There is a
lot of flaming, little digs, philosophical meanderings and other BS that
gets posted, but I sure don't want to be left out of technical interchange,
especially your input. It is always worthwhile.
I am not familiar with all the e-mail programs out there but Eudora
provides enough information in the the header to permit a direct reply. A
name is nice though.
BTW: Thanks for the addresses. A couple of others that I like are:
http://www.avweb.com
http://www.landings.com/
BTW#2: Another nice thing about Eudora is that the http addresses are live
and you can go directly to them from them by clicking on them.
Here I go with a lot of philosophy and extraneous BS.
Keep posting your good stuff for all of us to read.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Robert Fritz <75303.1623(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Subject: | Quick Build vs. std kit + Phlogiston etc. |
The subject has been batted about some, but I'm wondering if anyone has done a
cost comparison between the RV-6(A) quick build and the RV-6(A) standard (Slow
build?) kit with the various options from other shops.
Something on the order of:
QB SB
supplier Vans $20,000 $10,000
supplier Phlogiston N/A
$ ?????
etc.
total cost
Phlog spar N/A
-100
hours
etc.
total time to build
I've seen some of this alluded to but not in one place.
Also, I've heard several folks lament the introduction of the QB after they'd
started on the (SB). Comments were always favorable re. time saved and quality
of the workmanship regardless of the route chosen. Is anyone in disgreement
with the postive statements on quality and value of either path?
If you would care to send them directly to me I'll organize it and report the
"survey".
Bob Fritz
75303.1623(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
Subject: | Re: Van's Isspro instruments of reasonable quality? |
I used some Westach guages, and wouldn't do that again, either.
>I think you get what you pay for...
>
I used the Rochester guages which work well and LOOK good (analog). A bit
heavy, perhaps but good guages. Aircraft Spruce has 'em.
Michael
RV-4 232SQ
mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
>listers
>
>I'm interested in getting
>the Rocky mtn monitor.....
>The peolpe at rocky mtn, they seem to be straight up......
Craig: I have one of the RMI encoders which I am very happy with (as are a
lot of other people: Vans [has one in the RV-8] and Burt Rutan [has one in
the Bomerang]. I can't speak for their engine monitoring unit but I guess
it to be of equal quality. The folks there are VERY happy to make you
happy. Good products, good people.
Michael
RV-4 232SQ
mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | mauser(at)Claris.COM (Richard Chandler) |
Subject: | Re: Direct Reply (Was Van's Isspro....) |
You know, another mailing list I'm on has a sort of auto-signature appended to
every message that includes the sender's e-mail address. Perhaps that's an
option in the software Matt uses?
Personally, I composed a special .sig to use with the RV list, but sometimes I
forget to switch.
--
Richard Chandler
RV-6: Garage bought and being finished, saving for tools and tail kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | sarg314(at)azstarnet.com (Tom Sargent) |
Subject: | powersport rotary engines |
FWIW I just received a mailing from Powersport saying that their
engine is going into production and they are "accepting a limited number of
deposits from experienced builders who have airframes which will enter
service during early 1997". The deposit is refundable and is $7,500.
Larry Graves of Montague Calif. is said to be installing the first
production Powersport 200 in his award winning Glasair. They say they'll
have engine mounts, jigs etc. for Glasair and RV builders.
For those who are unfamiliar with Powersport, they are working on a
200HP rotary which sells for $14,900 including reduction gear, alternator,
fuel injection, dual ignition and starter. (See Sport Aviation July
1996). It sounds really interesting. The rotary should vibrate very
little, and it's liquid cooled too. 200HP isn't too shabby either.
if you're interested, contact:
Powersport, inc.
12294 hatch Lane
Aumsville OR 97325
503-769-5469
---
Tom Sargent, Tucson, AZ, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | pmbs(at)probe.att.com |
Subject: | Re: Best of the RV-ator supplement pages almost sold out |
Andy,
how about a phone number so we can order without having to put
out Charge Card info. in email??
thanks
Paul Bilodeau
pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com
908-957-6611
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
Subject: | New List Message Header... |
As you can see, I've added a new line to the top of each message posted to
the RV-List. This line will give the email address (and possibly the
name) of the person that posted the message. We'll try this for a while
and see what people think. Just what the archive needs - more data, but it
definately can be useful. If you have a strong dislike for the new text
let me know and why.
Matt Dralle
RV-List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
==> RV-List Message Posted by: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
Subject: | New RV-List Text... |
As you can see, I've added a new line to the top of each message posted to
the RV-List. This line will give the email address (and possibly the
name) of the person that posted the message. We'll try this for a while
and see what people think. Just what the archive needs - more data, but it
definately can be useful. If you have a strong dislike for the new text
let me know and why.
Matt Dralle
RV-List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
Subject: | New RV-List Text... |
==> RV-List Message Posted by: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
As you can see, I've added a new line to the top of each message posted to
the RV-List. This line will give the email address (and possibly the
name) of the person that posted the message. We'll try this for a while
and see what people think. Just what the archive needs - more data, but it
definately can be useful. If you have a strong dislike for the new text
let me know and why.
Matt Dralle
RV-List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
==> RV-List message posted by: dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
This is a test.
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
Subject: | Re: Direct Reply (Was Van's Isspro....) |
>>(If everyone would sign their posts as above, we would know who we are
>talking to and it would make it a lot easier to post a reply to the sender
>instead of the list)
>
>Hey Bob:
>
>The value of this list is that the responses are available to every one and
>we all l can benefit from the wisdom of the people that respond. There is a
>lot of flaming, little digs, philosophical meanderings and other BS that
>gets posted, but I sure don't want to be left out of technical interchange,
>especially your input. It is always worthwhile.
>
>I am not familiar with all the e-mail programs out there but Eudora
>provides enough information in the the header to permit a direct reply. A
>name is nice though.
>
>BTW: Thanks for the addresses. A couple of others that I like are:
>
>http://www.avweb.com
>http://www.landings.com/
>
>BTW#2: Another nice thing about Eudora is that the http addresses are live
>and you can go directly to them from them by clicking on them.
>
>Here I go with a lot of philosophy and extraneous BS.
>
>Keep posting your good stuff for all of us to read.
>
>John Top
>Phone: (619) 549-3556
John,
>The value of this list is that the responses are available to every one and
we all l can benefit from the wisdom of the people that respond.>
This has been my position on the RV-list all along. However, on occasion,
there is no need to respond back to the list, such as this post, offering
congratulations, etc. I try to not load Matts hard drive with "fluff".
Most of the time, I post back to the list if there is the slightest
possiblilty that the comments would be of interest to others. Not posting
back to the Glastar list seems to be quite common and I have tried to
encourage people to post back to the list. In fact, the other day, I think
I posted and idea for a tail skid/tie down back to you instead of the
Glastar list. I'm used to the RV-list where you just hit reply. I did the
same on the Glastar list and sent my comment to you and it didn't make the list.
I'm using Eudora. Your post came with the two items below:
From: John Top <cts.com!jjtop(at)matronics.com>
X-Sender: jjtop(at)mail.cts.com
Most of the time, the posts I receive just have the:
From: John Top <cts.com!jjtop(at)matronics.com>
which means that I have to decipher and rearrange it to send a reply. It's
very handy to copy and paste the E-mail address to the reply field. I spend
enough time on the list (not getting Captain Bill's Glastar built) that I
don't like to take time to decipher addresses. Also, it seems like there
are a lot of posters on the RV-list that don't sign their names and it is
nice to know who your talking to.
As far as flames, I think the RV and Glastar list are very "flame free"
compared to some of the forums on the net, especially
rec.aviation.homebuilt. There are periods of wasted bandwidth on the
RV-list and then it seems like we get a period of time when most all of the
posts are interesting.
We're about to finish up the elevator and I guess we'll install bulkheads
in the fuse. next. Bill wants to get the plane up on the gear so he can
easily move it in case I sell my house and have to move.
John, thanks for the nice comments. See you on one list or another.
Bob Skinner BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dean & Scott Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net> |
Subject: | flames & misc.BS |
John Top wrote:
>
> The value of this list is that the responses are available to every one and
> we all l can benefit from the wisdom of the people that respond. There is a
> lot of flaming, little digs, philosophical meanderings and other BS that
> gets posted, but I sure don't want to be left out of technical interchange
IMHO
the flaming, little digs, philosophical meanderings and other BS serve
to make the list somewhat interesting when the technical interchange
gets slow or too tedious...
Matt may argue otherwise :)
Scott
N4ZW
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
>listers
>
>I'm interested in getting an engine monitor for my rv.
If you havent seen it, RMI has info including manuals and magazine articles
on the web(I just found it myself and I have been looking). Its at
http://SportFlyer.com/ under the avionics section. Thanks for the heads up
on this site Barry. There is so much good stuff here it should be part of
the faq.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
Subject: | Re: engine overhaul experience, chapter two |
If I read your message correctly, it sounds like there was wear in the
cylinders at the top (very common). Then you indicate that they
just 'honed' the cylinders. Did you go to over size pistons or
stay standard? I don't see how they could keep your cylinders standard
if there was wear a the top and then they honed them.
FYI, there should actually be .005 to .007 of 'choke' at the top of
the cyl (i.e. smaller at the top) so that when the barrell heats
up more at the top it forms a true cylinder.
Did they maintain the choke in the cyl?
Some of the older cyl. did not have any choke built into them.
Herman
> Please see earlier post for introduction.
>
> Engine: Lycoming O-320-E2D 1994 hrs TTSN/ first run. Vintage 1974
> Status at teardown: excessive wear in the top rings and ring grooves of all
> 4 cyls. this was beyond service limits. Oil pump A/D not complied with.
(stuff deleted)
> .......................................................................20
> Exhaust valves, new
> (4)................................................................500
> Paint engine and mount Lycoming grey enamel................................50
> Inspection and dye check of case, cylinders, honing of cyl. barrels,
> magnaflux inspection of crankshaft gear, idler gears & shafts, cam-
> shaft; cadmium plating of all steel hardware, rocker covers, intake
> tubes**
> ..............................................................................
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | GHLX34A(at)prodigy.com (MR GEORGE T KILISHEK) |
george send me your e mail address so we dont fill up the list with
chatter .
thanks
jeff rv8
martinphcyberbury.net
Jeff:
It's GHLX34A(at)Prodigy.com. My service won't take martinphcyberbury.
net as an E-Mail address.
George
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Best of the RV-ator supplement pages almost sold out |
From: | ab6a(at)juno.com (ALLAN E POMEROY) |
I also would like to order one set of the supplement pages. Will you email to
me a regular mailing address and I will get a $16 check into the
mail for it? I prefer not to use a credit card with email. Thanks.
Allan Pomeroy CNY
AB6A(at)juno.com
Riveting HS skeleton
>TO THOSE WHO HAVE THE ORIGINAL 14 YEARS OF THE RV-ATOR BOOK:
>
>As we advertised, the RV-Ator supplement pages to add the years 1994 -
>'95 to
>the older 14 year books would be available only through December.
>However
>there are still about 20 sets left. This is your last chance to get
>the
>supplement pages. Once they are gone, they are gone. The supplement
>page sets
>will not be reprinted. The supplement sets are $16 and can be ordered
>by
>e-mail with a Mastercard or Visa.
>
>This note does pertain to the current and complete 16 YEARS OF THE
>RV-ATOR
>book. The current 16 year book (1980-1995) will be available till
>around
>February 1998.
>
>Thanks
>Andy Gold RV-6A - finishing cowling
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
I have the Rocky Mountain and really like it.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Maynard, Bryon" <maynardb(at)snowmass.ksc.nasa.gov> |
Subject: | Quick Build vs. std kit + Phlogiston etc. |
Just my two cents worth.
I have been recommending to people, who have asked and are trying to
save some money, to get the standard kit but have the tanks and spar
made by other means and build the rest yourself. I found the spar and
tanks to be the long poles during the construction. With all the
prepunched metal now days the time is considerably less. Happy
building.
>----------
>From: Robert Fritz[SMTP:CompuServe.COM!75303.1623(at)matronics.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 1997 3:15 PM
>To: RV-List
>Subject: RV-List: Quick Build vs. std kit + Phlogiston etc.
>
>The subject has been batted about some, but I'm wondering if anyone has done
>a
>cost comparison between the RV-6(A) quick build and the RV-6(A) standard
>(Slow
>build?) kit with the various options from other shops.
>
>Something on the order of:
>
> QB SB
>
>supplier Vans $20,000 $10,000
>supplier Phlogiston N/A
>$ ?????
>etc.
>total cost
>
>Phlog spar N/A
-100
>hours
>etc.
>total time to build
>
>I've seen some of this alluded to but not in one place.
>
>Also, I've heard several folks lament the introduction of the QB after they'd
>started on the (SB). Comments were always favorable re. time saved and
>quality
>of the workmanship regardless of the route chosen. Is anyone in disgreement
>with the postive statements on quality and value of either path?
>
>If you would care to send them directly to me I'll organize it and report the
>"survey".
>
>Bob Fritz
>75303.1623(at)compuserve.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
How did you QB guys handle the priming...Ex: do you finish all of
the flooring pieces ; prime, and then install?
John Lucas -
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RBusick505(at)aol.com |
Scott
In an earlier post someone indicated that the cost between the RMI and the
Vision System was basically the cost of the propes. How much did the propes
cost you for the RMI system.
Bob Busick
RV-6
RBusick(at)aol.com
<<
Craig,
I have built the RMI micromonitor and will be installing it in my RV-6A
within a week. I have nothing but praise for this kit and the company
behind it. Their customer service is outstanding. The kit was easy to
assemble and appears to work well. It took me a very enjoyably 20 hours to
put together. If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't hesitate to build
another. Actually I had so much fun with the micromonitor that I will
probably put a microencoder in the plane in the future.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV (Hope to finish by May)
scottg(at)villagenet.com
- >>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Active Noise Cancelation in the cabin. |
From: | Bill Downey <billd(at)ibmoto.com> |
> turboprop system STARTS at about $50K and 70 lbs. I think the headsets are
Dan,
Boy, that's higher than I would have guessed. I'm sure alot of the
cost is due to certification, recovering design costs, making a profit
and no competition. However the cost, of the electronics themselves,
does not seem that it could be even close to this price. If someone
was to develope their own system, I imagine the cost of electronics
would be significantly less than $1000. Though it would take many,
many hours of their time.
What really surprised me is the weight. I realize the frequency of
prop noise is realitively low. And low frequencies mean large woofers,
which in turn means heavy magnet or lots of weight. However 70lbs.
still seems awfully heavy. Do you have any idea what all this weight
is used for? Possibly depleted uranium designer speaker boxes. Or
maybe those Monster cables are heavier than I ever imagined.
I was really thinking about this from the homebuilder aspect of
developing our own system, rather than buying a commerially available
one. I realize some knowledge of accoustics and electronics would help
here. I still think this is managable project and could be quite fun
and educational. After all isn't that what homebuilding is all about.
Bill Downey
billd(at)ibmoto.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: U pik up kit = tax liability |
I believe if you pick up your kit at Vans, you will have to pay the sales
tax on kit at that time. If the kit is delivered to your home outside
Oregon, you will pay the taxes when you liscense the finished project.
Either way you pay, but for those trying to stretch out the total cost,
this may be a consideration.
IMHO
RVator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
At 12:40 PM 1/8/97 GMT, you wrote:
>
> How did you QB guys handle the priming...Ex: do you finish all of
>the flooring pieces ; prime, and then install?
> John Lucas -
Here's a new twist to the primer thread(s)(s)(s)(s) .
The assembled components in the QB kit are already primed.
I've chosen to spray the remaining items with zinc chromate or marhyde out
of a can, there's just not enough pieces at one time to justify setting up
the gun (except for the mostly scratch-built rudder so far).
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q project:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker
(last update 12/23/96 - Oshkosh '96 RV pictures)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: engine overhaul experience, chapter two |
<< If I read your message correctly, it sounds like there was wear in the
cylinders at the top (very common). Then you indicate that they
just 'honed' the cylinders. Did you go to over size pistons or
stay standard? I don't see how they could keep your cylinders standard
if there was wear a the top and then they honed them.
FYI, there should actually be .005 to .007 of 'choke' at the top of
the cyl (i.e. smaller at the top) so that when the barrell heats
up more at the top it forms a true cylinder.
Did they maintain the choke in the cyl?
Some of the older cyl. did not have any choke built into them.
>>
As far as I know, Herman, the choke is present in cylinders of this vintage (
I did ask Bob Barrows specifically about this) and the honing done was just
to produce the criss-cross pattern on the cylinder walls which is essential
to proper seating of new rings. The amount of material removed is negligible
and the choke is said not to be affected. My new pistons are standard size
as the cylinder barrels miked to factory new dimensions. (Pampered engines
are hard to beat. The mechanic always torqued the spark plugs, which I'm
sure is why no cracks were found in the cyl heads.) So many people
apparently think they can tell by feel when a plug is in tight enough, and
they sometimes don't get away with it for 2000 hrs.
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com <-- aol stands for Amiracle to get On Line or America
Onhold, take your pick.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
Have the number of posts on the list the last few days been rather light
or is my server fouling up again? Things seem really slow. Maybe it's time
to talk about PRIMER!
Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
>--------------
> Have the number of posts on the list the last few days been rather light
>or is my server fouling up again? Things seem really slow. Maybe it's time
>to talk about PRIMER!
>
>Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
>--------------
Yeah, traffic has been a little light the last couple of days. People must
be building...
Matt
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Gear Leg Fairings |
The wide chord, reflexed trailing edge gear leg fairing used by, among
others, Dave Anders on his 258MPH 360 powered RV-4 is now available from:
Tracy Saylor
P.O. Box 856
Santa Paula, CA 93060
(805)933-8225
Cost is $195.00 including tax / shipping and an installation guide.
Per Tracy, the fairings are aircraft grade epoxy/fiberglass and should not
have the typical shrinking problems that polyester resin products do.
He currently does not provide intersection fairings, because the variation
between aircraft make it impossible to get a fit he is comfortable with.
According to several people who had the prototypes installed at Watsonville
96, these fairings a worth a couple of MPH, and the look great.
I have ordered a set and will post a note when I get them installed.
Dan Helm
mt. View CA
RV-4 3696
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
Subject: | The use of Loctite |
I am just doing a final assembly of the control rods, and it occured to me
that I have never seen any mention of the use of Loctite.
Is it recommended, or are there any problems with it ? I realise that it
would not be the primary method of vibration-proofing a joint.
John C-GDOC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
The lack of activity is because we can't get on line with AOL.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Fuselage crate size |
Could someone please post the size of the crate
used for the fuselage kit. I get to pick mine
up next week and I need to know if it will fit
in the back of my Ranger pickup.
P.S. I don't have access to the archive so I
can't look there to see if it was previously
posted.
Thanks
Doug Medema, RV-6A, wings done!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | d shipman <innovate(at)dallas.net> |
Subject: | Re: Gear Leg Fairings |
>
>The wide chord, reflexed trailing edge gear leg fairing used by, among
>others, Dave Anders on his 258MPH 360 powered RV-4 is now available from:
>
>Tracy Saylor
>P.O. Box 856
>Santa Paula, CA 93060
>(805)933-8225
>
>Cost is $195.00 including tax / shipping and an installation guide.
>
>Per Tracy, the fairings are aircraft grade epoxy/fiberglass and should not
>have the typical shrinking problems that polyester resin products do.
>
>He currently does not provide intersection fairings, because the variation
>between aircraft make it impossible to get a fit he is comfortable with.
>
>According to several people who had the prototypes installed at Watsonville
>96, these fairings a worth a couple of MPH, and the look great.
>
>I have ordered a set and will post a note when I get them installed.
>
>Dan Helm
>mt. View CA
>RV-4 3696
>
258 mph? I think that is just a tad above Vne!!!
David in Dallas
innovate(at)dallas.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
Subject: | Re: The use of Loctite (or anything new) |
Hi all,
Since it is quiet....
If Loctite came out with a new product that fastened more reliably than safety
wire and was only released by touching with a special tool while uttering a
password, it would not be acceptable to aviation community for at least twenty
years.
In high tech, they call this the "technology transfer problem".
I used to have a list of the reasons people give for not moving to the new
technology. The list had two columns. The left column had the reason for not
and the right hand column had comments the consultant might make to help dispell
the old belief.
Sometimes, of course, there really are good reasons for not changing or not
enough to offset the risk.
Hal Kempthorne halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. (SJC)
Debonair N6134V RV-6AQ on order!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | RMI Micromonitor vs. AV-10 |
>>the AFA is a pre-built 3 1/8" circular display of one parameter at
>>a time, scrolled manually or automatically.
>>
>>The price is about half the RMIs.
>> ^^^^
>>Ron Taborek RV-4 Installing O-320 Toronto ron.taborek(at)flight642.com
For those looking at engine scanning systems (as I am), here's my cost
rundown of the RMI Micromonitor vs. AFA AV-10, prices obtained from
respective manufacturer information (USD).
System capabilities include CHT's, EGT's, oil temp & pressure, fuel
pressure, voltage, OAT, carb temp, MAP, fuel flow, etc.
RMI AV-10
Base unit: 1299 1100
(4) CHT probes: 116 64
(4) EGT probes: 92 106
Multiplexer switch: 36 n/a
Carb temp sensor: 115 23
Oil temp sensor: inc. 23
Oil pressure sensor: inc. 35
Fuel pressure sensor: inc. 60
Fuel flow sensor(s): 163 250
Manifold pressure: 46 80
OAT sensor: inc. 35
--- ---
TOTALS: 1867 (ready built) 1776
-200 -100 (curr. discount)
--- (build it ---
1667 yourself) 1676 (ready built)
These units are *very* evenly priced (if I did my math right, but knowing my
last stall speed calculations on the list...yikes).
IMO, the AV-10 has the following advantages/disadvantages:
Space saver.
Scans all parameters including CHT's and EGT's.
Voice alert (advantage or disadvantage ?), can be shut off.
New product with unknown future support.
Measures shock cooling.
Measures % mag misfire.
More bang per buck.
RMI advantages/disadvantages:
Stable company, known good product.
Most parameters on-screen at once.
Will *not* scan between cylinders, you must manually switch between them (I
contacted the factory about this, they replied that sales are so good we
don't have the time and don't see the need for this capability). Draw your
own conclusions how I felt about this attitude.
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q project:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rob_acker
(last update 12/23/96 - Oshkosh '96 RV pictures)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com (Finn Lassen) |
Subject: | Re: New RV-List Text... |
You wrote:
>As you can see, I've added a new line to the top of each message
>posted to the RV-List
I think it's a great idea.
Now, how about this:
Could you modify the program that adds postings to the archive in such
a way that it doesn't add postings with for example "Chatter" in the
subject line and/or maybe the first couple of lines in the body of the
message. By proper use of this (or some other keyword) we could still
post "chatter" to the list without it adding to the archive?
finn
finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
Subject: | Re: Fuselage crate size |
>
>Could someone please post the size of the crate
>used for the fuselage kit. I get to pick mine
>up next week and I need to know if it will fit
>in the back of my Ranger pickup.
RV-6 Fuselage:
Tom @ Van's said:
1 crate: 97" x 37" x 16" weight 256 stones............ I mean pounds!
Someone else:
RV6- Fuse kit (.954cubic meters) 8'3/4"x38"x17"
To forestall the inevitable questions:
Wing Kit: 1 box 14' 4" x 10" x 8" 255lbs
1 box 96" x 31" x 10" 260lbs
Empennage: kit box is about 8" x 36" x 60", 70 lbs.
jig box at 4" x 15" x 20" at 30 lbs
Finishing kit: Dunno... can someone give me this for completeness.
Frank.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv(at)pec.co.nz | "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass;
Frank van der Hulst | A good bookshop is just a genteel
Software Engineer | Black Hole that knows how to read".
PEC(NZ) Ltd (Cardax), Marton | Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
>
> Have the number of posts on the list the last few days been rather light
>or is my server fouling up again? Things seem really slow. Maybe it's time
>to talk about PRIMER!
>
>Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)krvn.com
>
Bob; It may be the cold weather has slowed up the flow of electrons in
the wires!!! From what I see on the weather channel, you are almost as cold
as we are. We're down to a numbing 32 degrees. I sure hope that I survive.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | TESTPYLOT(at)aol.com |
Subject: | INSTRUMENT PANEL ENGRAVING |
DEAR RV BUILDER
MY NAME IS WERNER BERRY OPERATOR OF WERNER BERRY AIRCRAFT COMPONENTS. WE
SPECIALIZE IN AIRCRAFT ENGRAVING, INSTRUMENT PANELS, SUB PANELS, STAINLESS
STEEL ID PLATES, PANEL OVERLAYS FOR SWITCHES AND BREAKERS, PLACARDS AND FUEL
CAPS ARE AMONG SOME OF THE ITEMS WE ENGRAVE. THE MOST POPULAR TYPE OF PANEL
MATERIAL WE WORK WITH IS A 1/16" INCH ACRYLIC PLASTIC WITH A SOLID COLOR
BACK. THE SOLID COLOR BACK IS AVAILABLE IN MANY COLORS. THIS ALLOWS US TO
REVERSE ENGRAVE THE PANEL AND FILL THE LETTERING WITH ANY COLOR INK YOU
CHOOSE. IT MAKES FOR AN EXTREMELY ATTRACTIVE LOOK. YOU MAY HAVE SEEN A
SAMPLE OF ONE OF THESE PANELS AT OSHKOSH, SUN AND FUN, OR COPPERSTATE. SEND
US YOUR ALUMINUM PANELS WITH THE MARKINGS YOU WANT PENCILLES IN AND WE DO THE
REST. A FEW OF THE THINGS TO THINK ABOUT HAVING ON YOUR PANEL, FOR EXAMPLE
IS YOUR "N" NUMBER ALONG WITH THE PASSENGER WARNING, SPEED MARKINGS, AND
MAYBE THE RORARY MAG-START SWITCH MARKINGS. I WOULD BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY
QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE. FEEL FREE TO DROP ME A LINE. I CAN BE REACHED AT
PHONE (714)838-8946 FAX(714)838-0075--WERNER BERRY AIRCRAFT COMPONENTS
H.I.S.CO. TUSTIN CA.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
Subject: | Does anyone know this airplane? |
I am looking for a -4 preferably w/-360.
Does anyone know a N4087Q based at Ramona CA?
If so write me directly at Dougr(at)netins.net.
Thanks in advance.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal Dougr(at)netins.net
http://www.netconx.net/petroblend/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dralle (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
Subject: | Re: INSTRUMENT PANEL ENGRAVING |
>--------------
>
>DEAR RV BUILDER
>
>MY NAME IS WERNER BERRY OPERATOR OF WERNER BERRY AIRCRAFT COMPONENTS. WE
>SPECIALIZE IN AIRCRAFT ENGRAVING, INSTRUMENT PANELS, SUB PANELS, STAINLESS
>STEEL ID PLATES, PANEL OVERLAYS FOR SWITCHES AND BREAKERS, PLACARDS AND FUEL
>CAPS ARE AMONG SOME OF THE ITEMS WE ENGRAVE. THE MOST POPULAR TYPE OF PANEL
>MATERIAL WE WORK WITH IS A 1/16" INCH ACRYLIC PLASTIC WITH A SOLID COLOR
>BACK. THE SOLID COLOR BACK IS AVAILABLE IN MANY COLORS. THIS ALLOWS US TO
>REVERSE ENGRAVE THE PANEL AND FILL THE LETTERING WITH ANY COLOR INK YOU
>CHOOSE. IT MAKES FOR AN EXTREMELY ATTRACTIVE LOOK. YOU MAY HAVE SEEN A
>SAMPLE OF ONE OF THESE PANELS AT OSHKOSH, SUN AND FUN, OR COPPERSTATE. SEND
>US YOUR ALUMINUM PANELS WITH THE MARKINGS YOU WANT PENCILLES IN AND WE DO THE
>REST. A FEW OF THE THINGS TO THINK ABOUT HAVING ON YOUR PANEL, FOR EXAMPLE
>IS YOUR "N" NUMBER ALONG WITH THE PASSENGER WARNING, SPEED MARKINGS, AND
>MAYBE THE RORARY MAG-START SWITCH MARKINGS. I WOULD BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY
>QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE. FEEL FREE TO DROP ME A LINE. I CAN BE REACHED AT
>PHONE (714)838-8946 FAX(714)838-0075--WERNER BERRY AIRCRAFT COMPONENTS
>H.I.S.CO. TUSTIN CA.
>--------------
Hi,
If you have web browser capability, please surf over to the Matronics pages
and have a look at the FuelScan LT and DX units that we manufacture. Note
that the lettering on the faceplates is currently silkscreened. The faceplates
are made of 6061-T6 then anodized black. The lettering has been a problem as
it has not been very durable. I was thinking just a few days ago how cool it
would be to have the lettering engraved, the paint filled. I messed around a
little bit on my CNC mill with this idea, but the lettering is very small
and the tolerence of my mill didn't produce very good results.
What are your thoughts on an engraving project like this? Impossible? The
engravine tip would probably have to be 5 or 10 thousanths to make it look
good. I'm not necessaryly locked into the fonts as done with the
silkscreening. They might be hard to do with an engraver. The basic layout
would have to be similar. The faceplates are 2.5" x 2.5".
Have a look at the web pages (or I can email or FAX you some 2X or 3X drawings
of the layout) and let me know what you think. I would probably do them in
batches of 15-20.
Thanks,
Matt Dralle
Matronics
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian McShurley <bmcshurley(at)www.sfgate.com> |
Subject: | Re: U pik up kit = tax liability |
aol.com!RVator(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
> I believe if you pick up your kit at Vans, you will have to pay the sales
> tax on kit at that time. If the kit is delivered to your home outside
> Oregon, you will pay the taxes when you liscense the finished project.
> Either way you pay, but for those trying to stretch out the total cost,
> this may be a consideration.
>
> IMHO
>
> RVator
Last I checked..(today)...Oregon still has no sales tax.
But nonetheless, If you are bringing it back to California (or most
other states), you are required to pay the sales tax normally charged in
your county within 10 days of the purchase, based on the value of the
kit. Failure to do this will result in a heavy fine plus interest.
Remember that when you go to register or sell the kit, the FAA sends a
notice to the state involved saying....look who bought an airplane. You
are then required to produce a bill of sale proving your assertions.
I know.....The state of CA has $4400 of my money to cover the sales
taxes on my kit. It was either pay as the law requires,or risk up to 5k
more by waiting until I register it.
Note, they cannot collect any personal property taxes on it until it has
flown....AT LEAST TWICE....according to the CA tax code.
In short....ESP in CA....be careful. They have a staff who are looking
for people not paying, and they check dates very carefully. I did what
was right. I can also sleep at night. No tax man coming to sieze my
airplane...garage...tools......
Brian McShurley, bmcshurley(at)www.sfgate.com, Stewart S-51D, N514BM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV-List:U pik up kit = NO tax liability in OR |
>
>
> I believe if you pick up your kit at Vans, you will have to pay the sales
>tax on kit at that time.
Oregon is one of two states (or is it 5) not having a sales tax. So, come
out and pick it up or have it delivered, same tax. However, most states
want you to pay their coffers. NY has gotten nasty with some builders,
claiming they owe the sales tax to NY at the time of the purchase and have
been trying to get penalties for not paying at time of purchase. Usually
the state tax collector will be in contact with you shortly after you apply
for an N number. They don't miss a thing. It would be best to call the tax
dept with a hypothetical question about building an airplane with old scrap
metal you have laying around and see what they say!
Don't panic, it is not that big of a problem. The only state I know of
where I remember of people complaining has been the Big Apple, and there
are a lot of RV's in NY, so it must not be that bad! Bill
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> RVator
>
>
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | fitton <fitton(at)vegas.infi.net> |
Does anyone know how I can contact Dave Anders? I have an IO360-A1A to
put in my RV-4. I'm currently skinning the fuselage and would like to
talk to him and perhaps visit Visalia prior to ordering the finish kit
from Van. Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks
Bob Fitton
fitton(at)vegas.infi.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fuselage crate size |
>Could someone please post the size of the crate
>used for the fuselage kit. I get to pick mine
>up next week and I need to know if it will fit
>in the back....
Doug, should fit okay. I don't have the exact size, but about 30" wide,
8' long and maybe 10" tall. Two people can move it. I think it is about
200 lbs. Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
Subject: | Re: The use of Loctite |
Being a novice at this, I may be starting a thread we do not want to hear,
but:
Using Loctite on Rodend bearings
++++++++++ Good ++++++++++
Holds the bearing well, and will allow adjustment at a later date without a
magic wand.
---------- Bad ----------
If the Loctite gets on the ball, the bearing could freeze-up, with the
resulting motion causing the bolt and nut to turn, causing the nut to come
off, causing the bolt to fall out, causing loss of control. Not even
remotely likely, but possible!
Anyone want to add to the sections above?
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
Subject: | Re: Kit sale liability |
>>I am considering getting a kit down the road, but I have a disturbing
>>question. Knowing how sue happy people are in the US, what liability
>>would I have if I build a kit, fly it for a few years, then sell it.
>>After I sell it something important happens, maybe a wing falls off, and
>>some is hurt or killed. Can they come after me since I built the plane?
>>Bill
I'm no attorney and this definately isn't legal advice, but:
This is why many owners of a homebuilt will part out the aircraft,
even though it's flying. This is to be able to sell it as "parts",
which greatly limits ones liability. Note I said "limits", not
eliminates It is best to sell the parts to several different people,
to complete the plan of selling parts. No reason the person who wants
to fly the plane couldnt buy the parts from the new parts-owners, nor
is there any reason that the parts be disassembled/removed from each
other when sold and resold. The important issue here is that one is
selling "parts" and the sales invoice specify the condition of the
parts, such as "unairworthy", "unservicable" etc. This puts the
responsibility for their condition squarely back on the new owner of
the plane.
The big problem is usually not the buyer, but his/her family, should
something happen. They will have no compunction about getting an
attorney to "make things right", at your expense, of course. (And the
attorney will get half or more).
I've thot of one way to reduce the possibility of having to pay
damages to some-one who perceives he's been damaged: put the stripped
airframe in the name of a corporation. The N number is the corporate
name. It is a legal entity. It even has it's own bank account.
Delaware corporations are cheap. When you sell, you sell the corp.
with it's only asset as the airframe. I'd think about maybe keeping
one share of the stock so as to be a shareholder in the corp. along
with other of the buyers family members Might be harder to sue you,
but might open you to other liabilities....
I have to say this to avoid my own legal problems: contact a competant
attorney to find out what he believes will keep you out of trouble.
Hope this helps.
Bill Nash
AIRCRAFT REMANUFACTURING
1291 E.Vista Way, #150
VISTA, CA. 92084 (619) 749 0239 FAX: 749 6384
Sales Directory: Infobot(at)pdsig.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
Yes I primed the floor panels before installing on the Q-build.
Ron Vandervort,RV-6Q,rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us
On Wed, 8 Jan 1997 ibm.net!lhlucas(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> How did you QB guys handle the priming...Ex: do you finish all of
> the flooring pieces ; prime, and then install?
> John Lucas -
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | ve7fp(at)jetstream.net (Ken Hoshowski) |
There have been a few complaints lately about the lack of posts on the
rv-list.I hope the following items may be of interest. My RV6 first flight
was in Sept. 93 so I have accumulated a few hours and experiences. These
two items relate to my personal experience and may give you something to
think about.
1 .Any of you who fly in the winter in around or below freezing
temperatures will note that a fair bit of air enters around the leading
edge wing roots and enters the fuselage though the aileron pushrod holes on
the sides of the fuselage. This cold air comes up around the control stick
boot and the seat pans. Unless you are wearing long johns and gloves it
can be a bit uncomfortable. Installing a light nylon type material,
similar to the control stick boot and attaching to the pushrod and the big
end velcroed around the pushrod entry hole on the fuselage side will
eliminate this draft. Special care should be taken that any clamps or
attachments onto the pushrod will not catch or snag on a rib. If you do
any cold weather flying, this will make it more enjoyable.
2. There has been discussion on the center vertical console or the
horizontal for throttle, mixture, pitch,trim etc.( RV6/6A ) I used electric
elevator trim so did not need a spot for that big vernier. The vertical
console is not a structural member. I choose to go with the horizontal
installation because I thought it looked neater. The biggest advantage of
the horizontal installation does not become evident until you have had to
remove/install your battery a few times. The vertical console does make it
more awkward to get those bolts into the battery terminal. At 6 feet and
210 lbs, after removing the seat to get my legs into the baggage
compartment and getting the control stick to one side trying to hold the
ratchet in one hand and a wrench in the other to do up the battery
terminals can be frustrating. Bifocals probably don't help either. Trying
to work around a center console would only be worse.
Possible solutions
1. Loose weight so I would fit better
2. Talk nice to my wife, and maybe she would do it.
December 28, 1996 - January 08, 1997
RV-Archive.digest.vol-ch