RV-Archive.digest.vol-cp

March 13, 1997 - March 22, 1997



________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 13, 1997
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: Wing Skin Bevel
> >Dave Donnelly wrote: >> >> >> >> The plans for an RV 4 indicate the outer skins DO overlap the inner skins. >> I noticed on a friend's RV 6 plans that the opposite was true. >> >> Dave D - -4 Fuselage on order > > I am looking at my RV-4 plans now and they show the INNER skins >overlaping the OUTER skins on sheet 19. > This isn't intended as a flame. > > Carroll Bird Troopers, I wouldn't worry which skin overlaps which skin. Van has depicted it both ways. He finally settled on one way and that is to have the outer skin overlap the inner skin, that allows the water running down the surface to not run between the skins, possibly causing corrosion. Unfortunately it will take us the next ten years to root out all the references in the manuals and the plans and get them corrected. Either way works just fine. Bill Bill RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV flying hours. These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 13, 1997
From: Jack Gageby <aj752(at)lafn.org>
Subject: Re: Fuel Returns
A friend has an RV4 and RV6, both O-360s with carb. He has a single fuel/vapor return line in both aircraft from a tee at the carb. The return is to the left tank. The orifice size for the return is 0.030 inches. The return rate is 3.5 gallons per hour with the 0.030 orifice. He has an on/off valve in the return line co-located with the fuel selector. Thus he can use the return during hi temperature operation to prevent vapor-lock and shut off the return in cool cruise conditions. Mike Wills wrote: > > > Gary, > I'm interested for the same reason. I also plan on EFI. I'm > planning/building tanks now, and plan on return lines to both tanks. > > Do you have any numbers for fuel return rate with the system you are > planning to use? I dont have any quantifiable numbers, but my experience > > > > >I plan on installing electronic fuel injection some time this year. > > > >Gary Corde > >RV-6 N211GC - NJ > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Finley, Brent J(Z99817)" <BFINLEY(at)apsc.com>
Subject: RV6A-RG?
Date: Mar 14, 1997
I saw a photo of the canadian RG RV and was wondering had anyone considered a retractable RV6A? Seems like the gear would have to be slightly longer to give the needed prop clearance. I have been browsing the web looking at planes ever since I started learning to fly and I am enamored with the RV6. Since I got my license (March 3rd!) I have been dreaming of getting into one. Does anyone know an owner in Phoenix who doesn't mind an enthusiastic passenger? Thanks, Brent ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 1997
From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net>
Subject: Re: RV-6 model aircraft
Stan Blanton wrote: > > > At the newsstand today I saw an article that might be of interest to some > builders. The April issue of RC Modeler has an article along with a cover photo > of a RV-6 on floats. It includes plans and a bill of materials. It even includes > enclosed wingtip lights. Sadly, it's only a sport-scale model. The flaps became part of the ailerons and the float dimensions were changed. Still, it's a cool looking model. About time an RV joined the model Lancairs and Glasairs on the circuit. PatK ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 1997
From: Fred New <fred(at)ics.ee>
Subject: Re: Fuel Returns
On Thu, 13 Mar 1997, Scott Spencer wrote: >=20 > Looks like I'm back to plumbing return to one tank and making sure > that's the one I burn out of first. If you could set up some sort of tank vent monitor for this tank, that is, an alarm for when fuel starts dumping out the vent, you might be able to make this work. But after all the discussion on this topic, I'd be inclined to plumb returns to both tanks going through the double fuel selector. -- Fred New IC Systems (372) 656-5477 Systems Administrator Mustam=E4e tee 12 fax (372) 656-5476 fred(at)ics.ee EE0006 Tallinn, Estonia ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 14, 1997
Subject: Re: airspeed
<< Airspeed airsmeed SHUT UP AND POUND RIVETS. >> Tony, If we want to improve our breed, we need accurate performance data. When I add EI to my engine I want to know that I went from X to Y. And when I add EFI I want to be able to prove that the performance went from Y to Z. Additionally, since our aircraft are custom built, the performance of each aircraft gives us an indication as to the condition of our engines and/or airframes. Changing things like wheel pants, fairings and the like has an impact on performance. We need to quantify these changes to make a decision if these changes are worth the money/effort or not. If nothing else, it's fun to say "mine is faster than yours"! Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC - NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 14, 1997
Subject: Re: Fuel Returns
<< Looks like I'm back to plumbing return to one tank and making sure that's the one I burn out of first. >> You can't empty the tank with EFI. EFI can't tolerate air in the system and I think that air can make a mech. fuel injection system cranky as well. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC - NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 1997
From: "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com>
Subject: RV-6 Floor skins
Glenn, Install the floor skins per plans, i.e. down aginst the F-604 bulkhead and forward against the floor ribs. The location of the 90 degree bend is irrelevant, but will end up about where GV says. Les RV-6AQB Tacoma, WA ---------- From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of aol.com!Vanremog(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, March 13, 1997 9:22 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6 Floor skins << I have some questions regarding F639 & F640 Forward Floor Skins, Drawing #37. At the front of the skins is a 90 degree bend. Should this bend sit right up against the spar or should there be a gap in there? If so, how much? >> Glenn- The front surface of the floor skins should align with the front surface of the spar bulkhead C channels that run up the sides of the fuselage and meet the floor skins at the spar. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jorear(at)mrnet.com
Date: Mar 14, 1997
Subject: RV-6 model aircraft
RV>At the newsstand today I saw an article that might be of interest to some RV>builders. The April issue of RC Modeler has an article along with a cover ph RV>of a RV-6 on floats. It includes plans and a bill of materials. It even incl RV>enclosed wingtip lights. RV>Stan Blanton RV>RV-6 fuselage RV>75472.372(at)compuserve.com To those that are interested: I am in the process of developing a set of plans for a 1/3rd scale model of an RV6. Power will be from a twin cylinder 4 cycle engine of 3.0 cu in displacement. Wingspan will be 96 inches. So far, I have nearly completed the fuselage. Construction will be almost identical to that of the full size aircraft, even using the same design to the fuselage jig. This is all to keep me occupied until I start in on construction of the real thing, hopefully in a couple of years. The model will definitely be an aid to deciding on a color scheme! Happy Building/flying Jeff Orear RV6 modeler/soon to be private pilot/ RV6 wanna builder jorear(at)mrnet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DCHamilton(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 14, 1997
Subject: RV rides in Phoenix, AZ
As of mid-1995 the RV group in Phoenix, AZ was run by Marvin Horn 20406 N. 142nd Ave. Sun City, AZ, 85375. They have had lunches from time to time at Deer Valley, Sedona and Rimrock. --- David C. Hamilton ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tony Partain" <aviator(at)tseinc.com>
Subject: Re: airspeed
Date: Mar 14, 1997
Gary I am glad you can see the humor in all this madness. Mine IS faster Ha! Tony ---------- > From: aol.com!RV6junkie(at)matronics.com > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: airspeed > Date: Friday, March 14, 1997 10:19 AM > > > > << Airspeed airsmeed SHUT UP AND POUND RIVETS. >> > > Tony, > > If we want to improve our breed, we need accurate performance data. When I > add EI to my engine I want to know that I went from X to Y. And when I add > EFI I want to be able to prove that the performance went from Y to Z. > > Additionally, since our aircraft are custom built, the performance of each > aircraft gives us an indication as to the condition of our engines and/or > airframes. > > Changing things like wheel pants, fairings and the like has an impact on > performance. We need to quantify these changes to make a decision if these > changes are worth the money/effort or not. > > If nothing else, it's fun to say "mine is faster than yours"! > > Gary Corde > RV-6 N211GC - NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Prado (Excell Corp.)" <v-jerryp(at)microsoft.com>
Subject: Wanted - RV6a Wing Kit
Date: Mar 14, 1997
I am looking for an RV6A wing kit in any stage of completion. Just purchased completed tail. Contact : Jerry H. Prado 7913 North 9th street Tacoma, WA Home : 206-566-6147 jerryprado(at)wa.net Voice Mail : 888-204-5330 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Rex" <jfr(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: airspeed
Date: Mar 14, 1997
Hi Listers, I'm sure of two things. One, I wish I could build as fast as my plane will someday fly. And, two, even if it's the slowest RV ever built, I know it will be a heck-of-a-lot faster than the C-172 that I'm currently mushing around in. Joe Rex RV-4, working, dangerously close to stall speed, on fuselage. ---------- > From: aol.com!RV6junkie(at)matronics.com > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: airspeed > Date: Friday, March 14, 1997 10:19 AM > > > > << Airspeed airsmeed SHUT UP AND POUND RIVETS. >> > > Tony, > > If we want to improve our breed, we need accurate performance data. When I > add EI to my engine I want to know that I went from X to Y. And when I add > EFI I want to be able to prove that the performance went from Y to Z. > > Additionally, since our aircraft are custom built, the performance of each > aircraft gives us an indication as to the condition of our engines and/or > airframes. > > Changing things like wheel pants, fairings and the like has an impact on > performance. We need to quantify these changes to make a decision if these > changes are worth the money/effort or not. > > If nothing else, it's fun to say "mine is faster than yours"! > > Gary Corde > RV-6 N211GC - NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 1997
From: mauser(at)Claris.COM (Richard Chandler)
Subject: Re: Fuel Returns
> If one way presents more resistance (i.e. tank full, and the only way > to send more fuel that way is to force other fuel up and out of the vent > -remember, the vent rises well above tank level) and the other way is to > a tank only half full it seems that the fuel would choose to go to > the half-full tank. But apparently not all of it does. If you use > an electrical analogy with resistance then you get current flowing to > both points but more current to the one with less resistance (less > fuel/head pressure -gravity). This must be how it works in the real > world -fuel flows to both tanks, but more of it goes to the non-full > tank. Not 50/50 > -but you're still losing fuel so who cares? I just like to think these > things out... One other problem with that. If the return line is plumbed so that it runs into fuel at the tank end, and is connected to both tanks at once, unless you put in check valves, you're going to have fuel flow from one tank to the other. Now the return fuel is at some sort of pressure, isn't it? Why does it have to feed into the top of the tank? -- Richard Chandler RV-6: Garage bought and being finished, saving for tools and tail kit. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 1997
From: mauser(at)Claris.COM (Richard Chandler)
Subject: Re: RV-6 model aircraft
I thought there was an RC Model of a -4 or a -3 in the factory the one time I was there. -- Richard Chandler RV-6: Garage bought and being finished, saving for tools and tail kit. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mikel(at)dimensional.com
Date: Mar 14, 1997
Subject: Re: Exhaust nut torque
Oh, nuts.....this is a subject like pr#*%r: Torque!! But:::I can't seem to find the torque for exhaust flange nuts on an 0-320. And the answer is.......... Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 1997
From: Dean Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Returns
aol.com!RV6junkie(at)matronics.com wrote: > > > > << Looks like I'm back to plumbing return to one tank and making sure > that's the one I burn out of first. >> > > You can't empty the tank with EFI. EFI can't tolerate air in the system and > I think that air can make a mech. fuel injection system cranky as well. > > Gary Corde > RV-6 N211GC - NJ I'm not using fuel injection -I just want the vapor lock protection that a vapor return offers, mostly because I plan on burning a mix of autogas/avgas which will (obviously) have higher volatility. Also when I say 'burn out of' that means 'draw from' in this case -I don't run tanks dry as a rule. Thanks for your concern. Scott N4ZW ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 1997
From: Dean Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Returns
Fred New wrote: > > > On Thu, 13 Mar 1997, Scott Spencer wrote: > > > > Looks like I'm back to plumbing return to one tank and making sure > > that's the one I burn out of first. > But after all the discussion on this topic, I'd be > inclined to plumb returns to both tanks going through the double fuel > selector. > > -- > Fred New Yeah, that's obviously the best solution but I already own a fuel selector however, and it's already mounted. I like keeping things simple also. I thought that there must be a way to solve the problem simply -guess not. I am officially pronouncing this thread 'worn out'. Scott N4ZW ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 1997
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: RV-6 model aircraft
Jeff Orear wrote: >I am in the process of developing a set of plans for a 1/3rd scale model >of an RV6. Power will be from a twin cylinder 4 cycle engine of 3.0 cu >in displacement. Van would prefer you used a Lycoming engine. Hal Kempthorne halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. (SJC) Debonair N6134V A zillion RV-6AQ parts in the "hangar" we call home. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: j.henley(at)worldnet.att.net
Subject: Gear Leg Fairings
Date: Mar 14, 1997
Does anyone have the phone # for Tracy Saylor (I think that is his name). I need to talk to him about some gear leg fairings. John Henley (j.henley(at)worldnet.att.net) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Former 'Lister returns
From: tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com (John T. Craig-Stearman)
Date: Mar 14, 1997
Hi, 'Listers! Tom Craig-Stearman is back on the air after a forced absence. It seems my employer did not like us using the office computer for personal business, so I finally set up my own system. My project is an RV-4 nearing completion. It should be on the gear next week. I just finished the canopy before loading the whole shebang into a 24' Ryder truck for the move from SW Texas to Oklahoma City. Some of you may recall that I was planning to install an auto engine. When the time came to finalize my engine choice, I had narrowed it down to either a Subie-Lyc Legacy conversion or a Powersport 200. The Subie-Lyc was not yet fully tested in an airplane, and Everett Hatch himself talked me out of the Powersport for my intended purpose (both aerobatics and IFR flying), so I ground my teeth and shelled out for a new O-360. Everett Hatch is at work now installing Airflow Performance, inverted oil, cold air induction, and working his magic on the cylinders for me. I should have the engine before Sun 'n' Fun. Because of weight and balance considerations in the RV-4 I am presently planning to use a fixed-pitch prop, unless I can find a thirty-pound controllable prop. Any suggestions? Regards, Tom Craig-Stearman tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 1997
From: John Ammeter <ammeterj(at)seanet.com>
Subject: Re: Exhaust nut torque
> >Oh, nuts.....this is a subject like pr#*%r: Torque!! > >But:::I can't seem to find the torque for exhaust flange nuts on an 0-320. >And the answer is.......... > >Michael > > > According to my Direct Drive Engine Overhaul Manual for Lycoming engines the exhaust port studs are to be torqued to 40 in/pounds minimum. I've found that they tend to loosen and fall off after a while. If you add a second 'jam' nut to the existing nut they won't loosen so readily. John Ammeter ammeterj(at)seanet.com 3233 NE 95th St Seattle WA, 98115 USA RV-6 N16JA First flight August 1990 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: Re: RV-6 model aircraft
Date: Mar 14, 1997
I'm getting a real kick out of the discussion concerning the RV models. I, too, am a model airplane builder and decided to build the RV-6A because I had always wanted to build a full size airplane. I've found that building the RV-6A is a lot like building a giant scale model. Yes, the material is a lot different; but, the plans and such are similar. I'm very glad I've had the model airplane experience to help me along. The patience and skills needed for the project were already present. It does take a bit more patience with the -6A, I must admit. Anyway, I'm hoping to get my -6A done within the next year so I can use it in my cross country tours of visiting model airplane clubs, and such. What a combination! Jim Sears, Associate Vice President Academy of Model Aeronautics RV-6A (working on fuselage bulkheads) AA5A Cheetah N26276 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Exhaust nut torque
Date: Mar 14, 1997
From: Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)highfiber.com>
The documentation that came with my Vetterman exhaust system from Van's says 100-125 inch pounds to torque the flange nuts. (cutting the instrument holes in the panel) Mike Kukulski RV-4 N96MK kukulski(at)highfiber.com Albuquerque, NM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kevin lane <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: RV-6 model aircraft
Date: Mar 15, 1997
> >Jeff Orear wrote: > >>I am in the process of developing a set of plans for a 1/3rd scale model >>of an RV6. Power will be from a twin cylinder 4 cycle engine of 3.0 cu >>in displacement. > >Van would prefer you used a Lycoming engine. > > are you back riveting those 1-1.1 rivets in the .008 wing skins? (-: let's see, one third scale, thats about a C-65, right? Pretty good climb rate I would guess! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kevin lane <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Exhaust nut torque
Date: Mar 15, 1997
> >Oh, nuts.....this is a subject like pr#*%r: Torque!! > >But:::I can't seem to find the torque for exhaust flange nuts on an 0-320. >And the answer is.......... > >Michael > you need a Lycoming O/H manual. Service Table of Limits direct drive engines special torque requirements ref 906 exhaust port studs 5/16-18 40 in. lbs min. (this is the only entry that says min., every other one states the torque as one figure or a range, so...... good luck (-: kevin 6a cowling ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 1997
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: Cowlings
> >Does anyone know if the RV-6 cowling is still available two sizes?? >Does anyone what their lengths were?? > >Ernesto Sanchez >E-Racer# 319 >es12043(at)utech.net Ernest, We can order a fixed pitch cowl for you if that is your desire. It will be about 1.75 inches longer than the constant speed cowl (c/s) which is the standard. The c/s is about 36" from the firewall side to the spinner flange on the front before you cut it to fit. Bill Bill RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV flying hours. These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 1997
From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Gear Leg Fairings
worldnet.att.net!j.henley(at)matronics.com wrote: > > > Does anyone have the phone # for Tracy Saylor (I think that is his name). I > need to talk to him about some gear leg fairings. > > John Henley (j.henley(at)worldnet.att.net) John, My buddy who just bought a -4 put on Tracy's gear leg fairings last weekend. They are one piece fiberglass, look great, and are easy to install. The cost was about $200 including shipping. Installation: You rivit an upside down "T" shaped piece of aluminum to the top of the fairing which holds the fairing in place with a hose clamp to the gear leg and epoxy the split in the rear with epoxy using cleco's and a long piece of angle to hold everything straight. After the epoxy dries, remove the clecos and angle and sand the joint smooth. I don't have Tracy's number at hand, but it should be in the archives if no one else answers. I know you only asked for the phone number, but the extra info is for you as well as the rest of the list. Ed Cole emcole(at)concentric.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 15, 1997
Subject: Re: Scale P38 Has Flown
Noted test pilot Dave Morss was at the controls of the 55% Scale P-38 Lightning replica, designed and built by Walter Treadwell, when it slipped the surly bonds on 03/11/97 at Livermore, CA. Details are confidential (so please don't ask) until we get the story together for publication, but I assure you, this is a fantastic achievement and the plane flies well. The test program will continue as soon as Dave gets more time away from Dan Denney's Thunder Mustang. Now we can get back full time on the RV-6A project. -Gary VanRemortel vanremog(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 15, 1997
Subject: Re: Gear Leg Fairings
<< Does anyone have the phone # for Tracy Saylor (I think that is his name). >> Check the RV Builders' Yeller Pages at hartmann(at)sound.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 15, 1997
From: Dean & Scott Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Returns
Richard Chandler wrote: > One other problem with that. If the return line is plumbed so that it runs > into fuel at the tank end, and is connected to both tanks at once, unless you > put in check valves, you're going to have fuel flow from one tank to the > other. > > Now the return fuel is at some sort of pressure, isn't it? Why does it have > to feed into the top of the tank? To prevent having to use check valves -only problem is that the only 'resistance it meets is the small amount offered by having to force the fuel out the vent. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 15, 1997
From: "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com>
Subject: Exhaust nut torque
Hey! We're talking NUTS here! I believe the proper torque is 25-30 inch pounds. And to keep them from coming loose, *always* use a new star washer and a flat washer under the nut. Les RV6AQB Tacoma, WA ---------- From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of John Ammeter Sent: Friday, March 14, 1997 4:15 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Exhaust nut torque > >Oh, nuts.....this is a subject like pr#*%r: Torque!! > >But:::I can't seem to find the torque for exhaust flange nuts on an 0-320. >And the answer is.......... > >Michael > > > According to my Direct Drive Engine Overhaul Manual for Lycoming engines the exhaust port studs are to be torqued to 40 in/pounds minimum. I've found that they tend to loosen and fall off after a while. If you add a second 'jam' nut to the existing nut they won't loosen so readily. John Ammeter ammeterj(at)seanet.com 3233 NE 95th St Seattle WA, 98115 USA RV-6 N16JA First flight August 1990 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 1997
From: Shirley Hobenshield <shobenshield(at)cmsd.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: airspeed
> >Airspeed airsmeed SHUT UP AND POUND RIVETS. Fly'em if you got'em. 185mph >tas 8000' 2200rpm 24"mp 160hp rv-4 coming through boys! If you would Quit >worring about all this math and build , you could really find out how fast >it really goes. Of course if you have a really big hanger and want to see >how fast it goes now, you could get it going about 1or 2 kias before you >smash into the wall!! See you up there if your lucky!! > >Tony Partain >N17PT Well said Tony, but give these builders the benifit of finishing their aircraft and finding out for themselve's, Take my word guys, you have NOT started a project that WILL NOT show you what a " real performance aircraft " can do. I spent almost 3 years building, and it was worth every bit of it for the results. Guys who have spent big bucks maintaining and flying their Pipers & Cessans are looking over their shoulders. " Hey that RV goes like stink " Those who are planing a trip to Alaska, or wanting to check-out B. C. Canada, get in touch. Have all the needy things a RV pilot needs. Glad to have you stop by. Ed Hobenshield C- FXXG ( F----ing good } ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 15, 1997
From: Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: New to rv-list & net
Hi, I'm new to this, so I don't know if this will go where I want it. If not I'll try again. I'm building a RV-6 , working on fuselage in Lebanon OR. I look for an answer hoping I have lucked out. Denny Harjehausen...retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 15, 1997
From: "James K. Hurd" <hurd(at)riolink.com>
Subject: Elevator Horn Clearance
Need guidance please on trimming the HS rear spar flange to accomodate elevator horn movement: 1) how far to cut toward spar web; 2) how wide, i.e. to the AC centerline or leave small pieces of the flange attached to the web inboard; 3) recommended technique for this surgery. (Can't attach elevators 'til I do this.) Thanks in advance. Jim Hurd RV6A Empennage-almost-done-but-still-gunshy-about-cuttin' ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Primer
From: tpbaxter(at)juno.com (Thomas P Baxter)
Date: Mar 15, 1997
Hi everyone :-). I am new to the group, but I have enjoyed the exchange of information that I have read so far. I am building an RV-6, starting the empennage. I am ready to prime the parts and I have not been able to find much information on which primer to use. Based on what I've read, I will use an airbrush (although the baby food jar option sounds interesting) for now. I have heard and read of Veriprime being used. There is a list of primers in the RV-ATOR book (16 years)and in the plans, but no data on performance or drawbacks. I don't think this requires as much discussion as the dual-tank-fuel-return issue, but I would like to know what experience others have had in this area. Thanks. TPBAXTER@JUNO,COM N530TB, NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 15, 1997
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator Horn Clearance
> >Need guidance please on trimming the HS rear spar flange to accomodate >elevator horn movement: 1) how far to cut toward spar web; 2) how wide, >i.e. to the AC centerline or leave small pieces of the flange attached >to the web inboard; 3) recommended technique for this surgery. (Can't >attach elevators 'til I do this.) > Jim, What do you mean that you can't attach the elevators until this notch is cut? I've from the pre "pre-punched" days but don't think much changed in this area. What worked for me is as follows: Mount the elevators. Move the elevators down until they contact the spar flange. File the area of contact (all the way to centerline) until the proper deflection is achieved. Remember to radius the inside corner of this notch. Leave the notch just large enough so that aerodynamic flexing will no cause it to bind. Take your time and think about what you are trying to accomplish and everything will work out just fine. Hope this helps. Scott Gesele (N506RV - It will fly this Spring) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator Horn Clearance
Date: Mar 15, 1997
---------- > From: James K. Hurd <riolink.com!hurd(at)matronics.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Elevator Horn Clearance > Date: Saturday, March 15, 1997 10:46 AM > > > > > Thanks in advance. Had same problem, called Van, they said it is had to trim back all of flange that is in the way since it does not compromise the strength of the part. Austin T. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 15, 1997
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Primer
Thomas P Baxter wrote: > > > Hi everyone :-). I am new to the group, but I have enjoyed the exchange > of information that I have read so far. I am building an RV-6, starting > the empennage. I am ready to prime the parts and I have not been able to > find much information on which primer to use. Based on what I've read, I > will use an airbrush (although the baby food jar option sounds > interesting) for now. I have heard and read of Veriprime being used. > There is a list of primers in the RV-ATOR book (16 years)and in the > plans, but no data on performance or drawbacks. I don't think this > requires as much discussion as the dual-tank-fuel-return issue, but I > would like to know what experience others have had in this area. > > Thanks. > > TPBAXTER@JUNO,COM > N530TB, NJ Hi Thomas If you look in the rv-list archives you will find all you need to know about primers. A while back there was a primer thread that went on and on and on and on and... will you get the picture, so some of the old timers on the list are very carefull about saying the word primer :-). But having said that and and realizing there are new people on here that have legitimate questions about what primer to use it is a fair question. I used Variprime and have been flying almost eight years and the primer looks as good as it did the day I put it on. If you are going to paint your airplane yourself use whatever primer that is compatable with the paint you will be using, if you are going to have a shop paint the exterior of your plane don't prime the exterior because they may have their own system of primer and paint that they like to use. OK I have said the dreaded word *primer* and it wasn't that bad.:-) -- Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Shelby1138(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 15, 1997
Subject: Re: IO 360 A1B
I am looking at a mid-time IO360 A1B. Would appreciate any thoughts from anyone with experience with this engine. This is not a A1B6 which I understand has counterbalancing on the crank. I believe Steve Barnard and maybe a couple of others have the A1B6 engine. Thanks in advance Shelby in Nashville. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuel Returns
<332AB19D.4C6B(at)kiva.net>
From: lm4(at)juno.com (Larry Mac Donald)
Date: Mar 15, 1997
writes: > > >Richard Chandler wrote: > >> One other problem with that. If the return line is plumbed so that it runs into fuel at the tank end, << How about the notion of cross connecting the two tanks at the bottom to cross feed and piping one line to the #1 tank ? Larry Mac Donald ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LesDrag(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 15, 1997
Subject: Re: Gear Leg Fairings
<< Does anyone have the phone # for Tracy Saylor (I think that is his name). I need to talk to him about some gear leg fairings. John Henley (j.henley(at)worldnet.att.net) >> Tracy Saylor's phone number is (805) 933-8225. Jim Ayers LesDrag(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 15, 1997
From: John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com>
Subject: Re: Primer
>I don't think this requires as much discussion as the >dual-tank-fuel-return issue, but I would like to know what experience others have had in this area. Tom: You have a bunch of folks cowering. There are 10 zillion messages on primers in the archives. The fuel return thread pales in comparison. John Top Phone: (619) 549-3556 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Conley" <John.Conley(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Speaking of Primers
Date: Mar 15, 1997
I just heard about some recent articles on using 'water-based' primers. Can anyone tell me where I might find those articles? Thanks in advance John Conley N744JC RV6 #23621 (Empennage) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 1997
From: David Price <dwprice(at)webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Primer
John Top wrote: > > > >I don't think this requires as much discussion as the > >dual-tank-fuel-return issue, but I > would like to know what experience others have had in this area. > > Tom: > > You have a bunch of folks cowering. There are 10 zillion messages on > primers in the archives. The fuel return thread pales in comparison. > > John Top > Phone: (619) 549-3556 Hello again I hope I don't step on any toe's but the idea of mixing fuel from one tank to the other and the extra attention that has to be paid to fuel mantenence, not returning the fuel back only to the tank it comes from has my hair standing on end.I thought there was a fuel selector that does this the right way!!.Always thought it was nice to have a tank to try incase of contamination that caused a problem(switch tanks).This seem so cut and dry no disscusion.I also would rather see a good primer-paint compatability chart regardless of how many threads in the past have been written,not to be-little the importance of fuel returns.It's not so easy to produce a plan on primer-paint compatability by looking at the archives,and a plan for a new builder in this area would shure speed things along for that person knowing that he's or she's doing the right thing.I enjoy all the threads beginning const. to finish!!!!! David Price ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 15, 1997
From: Elon <elon.o(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Airspeed
Thanks to all that responded. It didn't take all that long. Once a few clarifications were made your efforts converged to a very useful formula resulting in excellent precision. Its a keeper :-) thanx, -Elon ps. The nuggets are always at the bottom of the pan. It takes work to get to them. This list is still a goldmine. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 1997
From: "Robert G. Miller, Jr." <rgmiller(at)sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: Primer
Thomas P Baxter wrote: > > > Hi everyone :-). I am new to the group, but I have enjoyed the exchange > of information that I have read so far. I am building an RV-6, starting > the empennage. I am ready to prime the parts and I have not been able to > find much information on which primer to use. Based on what I've read, I > will use an airbrush (although the baby food jar option sounds > interesting) for now. I have heard and read of Veriprime being used. > There is a list of primers in the RV-ATOR book (16 years)and in the > plans, but no data on performance or drawbacks. I don't think this > requires as much discussion as the dual-tank-fuel-return issue, but I > would like to know what experience others have had in this area. > > Thanks. > > TPBAXTER@JUNO,COM > N530TB, NJ Tom: The most important thing is to be sure that the primer is compatible with the paint you are going to use. Stick with a major brand like Dupont, PPG, etc. Look in the yellow pages for an auto paint store that carries Dupont and order the Dupont Aircraft Refinishing manual. PPG and the others may have a comparable publication. Robert Miller ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mikel(at)dimensional.com
Date: Mar 16, 1997
Subject: Re: Scale P38 Has Flown
> >Noted test pilot Dave Morss was at the controls of the 55% Scale P-38 >Lightning replica, designed and built by Walter Treadwell, when it slipped >the surly bonds on 03/11/97 at Livermore, CA. Details are confidential (so >please don't ask) until we get the story together for publication, Friend of mine has photos of the plane and it looks JUST like a P-38!! Way cool. Glad to hear it finally got to go flying. Now: someone will be working on a scale B-17 with four VW engines and....oh, never mind........ Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 1997
From: mauser(at)Claris.COM (Richard Chandler)
Subject: Chatter Warbirds (was: Scale P38 Has Flown)
> Now: someone will be working on a scale B-17 with four VW engines > and....oh, never mind........ I always liked the B-25 Mitchell for some reason. I don't know why. Perhaps it was the version with the 8 .50 cals in the nose, plus 4 nacelles on the side, and with the turrets joining in on the strafing run, it was the 1940's version of the disintegrator beam. And then they could drop bombs on you to add injury to insult..... Of course, the model with the 75mm gun was a cool idea too. -- Richard Chandler RV-6: Garage bought and being finished, saving for tools and tail kit. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 1997
From: Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Primer
Aircraft Spruce sell a epoxy primer that meets military and aerospace requirements call AKZO #463-12-8. Another builder has been using it and I got some off of him. It is hard as a rock when dry. I have used an epoxy wash that Sherman Williams has, it is the same as Van's factory has been using in the past. It is tough stuff, but I don't think it is tough as AKZO. I suppose there many others out just as good. I would like to hear some comments on gasolators on tail dragger. It would seem to me that because the gasolator is not a low point in this configuration that it just acts as just a filter. A filter located outside of the engine compartment in a area that could be checked easily would work fine and not be subjected to all that heat. What ya think? Denny..fuselage RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Edmondson" <Tazman(at)lakemartin.net>
Date: Mar 16, 1997
"index" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com>
Subject: Re: Primer
Date: Mar 16, 1997
---------- > From: Denny Harjehausen <proaxis.com!retflygtiger(at)matronics.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Primer > Date: Sunday, March 16, 1997 7:02 AM > > > I would like to hear some comments on gasolators on tail dragger. It would > seem to me that because the gasolator is not a low point in this > configuration that it just acts as just a filter. A filter located outside > of the engine compartment in a area that could be checked easily would work > fine and not be subjected to all that heat. What ya think? > > Denny..fuselage RV-6 Check page 10 of Aug/96 issue of Van's newsletter. Good information on gascolators. Austin Tinckler ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 1997
From: Doug Rozendaal <dougr(at)netins.net>
Subject: RV-List:Warren Basler
I heard a blurb on CNN and Confirmed on the AP Web page that Warren Basler of Basler Flight services of Osh Kosh WI was killed yesterday, along with 3 others, when a DC-3 and a Bonanza collided South of Green Bay. Most of us have bought fuel from Basler at Osh Kosh at one time or another. No details of the mission were given. Basler was a long time operator of DC-3's and was also involved in a turbine conversion program. Our thought are with their families. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal dougr(at)netins.net www.petroblend.com/dougr ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com>
Subject: water traps
Date: Mar 16, 1997
Quite some time ago this space included a great suggestion on how one could construct a home-made trap for water in the line from an air compressor which would guarantee that you don't get water in the gun when you want to paint your project. It consisted of some length and elbows of PVC which cool the air and provide a low point for water to settle in. It was simple and cheap and sounded ingenious as a way for a simple homebuilder to eliminate one of the problems that scare people off spray paint jobs. Does anyone remember the instructions for the layout ? Also, as an aside, I would like to encourage anyone who has cold feet about painting their RV themselves to give it a shot and just buy good stuff, (PREP WELL), and go to it. I have seen paint jobs by first timers that looked great and stood up well. Just as well as some $2500 to $6000 jobs I have seen. I figured I did everything else on this a/c and I will do this too ! I will admit however that I did paint one previous a/c with a $60 gun my kids gave me for a birthday and which others pronounced only good enough to shoot primer or to hammer the lid back on the can with, and I just did it and I was proud of it. Killed a few bugs but looked great in the sunlight. Remember to degrease, etch, alodine if you like, scrub with scotch brite, prime with Super Coripon or some such, mask and paint. You will like it.What the hell, you did everything else, why not. Austin Tinckler, RV-6, Vancouver. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: Speaking of Primers
Date: Mar 16, 1997
Deft makes a 2 part epoxy primer which is "water" soluble. It really cuts much better with alcohol though. It is a fully fluid resistant mil spec primer and is used by Boeing. I don't have a good source for it though. Someone else on the list a while back was advertising some for sale. I've been using it and it seems to work great. Hard to mix though. -mike > ---------- > From: John > Conley[SMTP:worldnet.att.net!John.Conley(at)matronics.com] > Sent: Saturday, March 15, 1997 8:29 PM > To: RV-List > Subject: RV-List: Speaking of Primers > > > > I just heard about some recent articles on using 'water-based' > primers. > Can anyone tell me where I might find those articles? > > Thanks in advance > > John Conley > N744JC > RV6 #23621 (Empennage) > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re:Where to find
<332AB19D.4C6B(at)kiva.net>
From: cecilth(at)juno.com (Cecil T Hatfield)
Date: Mar 16, 1997
Some of the 3/16 bolts called out in the plans for the spar, after two washers and a nut are on, the first thread doesn't quite show. I want to know what is acceptable. In the FAA DOT book: Acceptable methods, Techniques and practices. Aircraft Inspection and repair. Where can I find info on this? Or is there another book I can find this? Thanks, Cecil Hatfield ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Do you know the answer to my question?
<332AB19D.4C6B(at)kiva.net>
From: cecilth(at)juno.com (Cecil T Hatfield)
Date: Mar 16, 1997
In the FAA DOT book: Acceptable methods, Techniques and practices. Aircraft Inspection and repair. Section 248 paragraph ( i ), reads: Cladding. Aluminum alloys which are susceptible to corrosion are frequently clad with pure aluminum. Slight pits, scratches or other defects through the cladding material will not result in corrosion of the core, since the pure aluminum on the edges of the defect will be perferentially corroded, protecting the core. Question: In the case of a scratch through the pure aluminum to the base alloy metal. Why would the edges of pure aluminum corrode before the alloy would? Tis' a puzzelment to me. Cecil hatfield ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kiwi(at)jetstream.net (Kiwi)
Subject: Countersinking
Date: Mar 16, 1997
I am sure that most of us have trouble with oval rivet holes when countersinking. The reason for this is the speed of the bit is too high and the 3 cutters on the countersink want to increase the radius of the hole the faster you spin it. A remedy for this is to place the countersink stop bit into a slow spinning drill such as a cordless battery drill. I spin the bit at about 200RPM and push firmly. About 4-6 turns of the bit gives one the correct countersink and no oval shaped rivet hole. Hope this helps someone. BTW. For those of you who are interested (or live close enough) the Salmon Arm Flying Club (in BC Canada) has an Air Affair on June 15,97. Attendance reaches about 4500 spectators every year and RVers are the most popular attending of all the groups. Accomodation can be arranged for visiting pilots and we provide a dinner for pilots (and Co-pilots) on Saturday night. Vans usually attends plus those plastic guys usually show up. The other interesting thing is that you can get to meet the designer and see the RV6 on Amphibious floats. His name is Eustace Bowhay. If you need further info contact me: Barry Tunzelmann Ph(250)832-3198 eves. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Axcjjgreen(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 16, 1997
Subject: RV-6A Wing Kit and Empennage for sale (regretfully)
I have an RV-6A wing kit with Phlogiston spars that I have to sell due to my wife's transfer overseas. (The Navy did it to us again) I also have a completed Empennage with electric elevator trim. I am asking $4000 for both, or will take $3500 for the wings and $700 for the Empennage. The wing kit is still in the box as it was delivered from Vans. The workmanship on the empennage probably won't win any awards but is very good. If anyone in the Puget Sound area is interested, I could possibly deliver to your house and additionally give you the jig material which I used to build the tail.. If interested, please reply to my E-mail address . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 6/6A Rear Bottom Skin Oilcanning
Date: Mar 16, 1997
After talking to dozens of 6/6A flyers at Oshkosh, I feel that I ought to reinforce the bottom rear fuselage skin area to reduce oil-canning. The Orndorf video calls out gluing insulation in the rear bottom skin to overcome oil-caning but this seems crude. I am considering running two additional J-channels from F612 to F606. They would diverge symmetrically about the center line and be installed on the bottom skin just like the side channels. I am going to mill out a simple C-clamp operated die set to form the joggles. Comments from flying 6/6A builders on the oil-canning and my proposed mod would be appreciated. Note that if you fly with good headsets you may unaware of the effect! Thank you. Dennis fuselage in jig ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 1997
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: Gascolator
> ......... >I would like to hear some comments on gasolators on tail dragger. It would >seem to me that because the gasolator is not a low point in this >configuration that it just acts as just a filter. A filter located outside >of the engine compartment in a area that could be checked easily would work >fine and not be subjected to all that heat. What ya think? > >Denny..fuselage RV-6 As you stated, the gascolator is not in the low point. Years ago, that may have been the intention in gravity flow systems, but with low wing aircraft there is no way of having it in the low point, and there is no need to have it in the low point. Think of the gascolator as a separator. When gas combined with water or trash enters the gascolator, the heavier items such as water and metal parts, grains of sand, etc, settle on the bottom and the gas stays at the top of the bowl. The gascolator allows the fluid at the top to continue the journey to the engine. There is no requirement that it be at the lowest point in the system. The concept of it being at the low point was probably so water in the fuel would migrate to the gascolator, where if it froze, it would not impede fuel flow. However, for this to work, the system would need to have a continuous gradient so water would not be trapped in the fuel lines. Obviously in a low wing with tanks in the wings, this is not possible, so lets not think of it being at the low point in the system, just that it is a reservoir where separation can take place. Bill Bill RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV flying hours. These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 1997
From: Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Re: 6/6A Rear Bottom Skin Oilcanning
Dennis Persyk wrote: > > > After talking to dozens of 6/6A flyers at Oshkosh, I feel that I ought to > reinforce the bottom rear fuselage skin area to reduce oil-canning. The > Orndorf video calls out gluing insulation in the rear bottom skin to > overcome oil-caning but this seems crude. > I am considering running two additional J-channels from F612 to F606. They > would diverge symmetrically about the center line and be installed on the > bottom skin just like the side channels. I am going to mill out a simple > C-clamp operated die set to form the joggles. > Comments from flying 6/6A builders on the oil-canning and my proposed mod > would be appreciated. > Note that if you fly with good headsets you may unaware of the effect! > Thank you. > Dennis fuselage in jig Dennis that sounds like a good idea. Another builder & I were using 3/4 angle down the center from F606 for the next 2 bays. The canning is noticable. Way way back I worked in a aircraft factory and they would ok any canning. What ever that is worth. Denny..RV-6 fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 1997
From: "Larry D. Hoatson" <lhoatson(at)e2.empirenet.com>
Subject: Re:Where to find
<332AB19D.4C6B(at)kiva.net> <19970316.093520.18775.1.cecilth(at)juno.com> Try locating a copy of the publication 43.13a -- Larry D. Hoatson Yucaipa, CA Redlands (L12) Airport lhoatson(at)empirenet.com KC6WYF via packet at: KC6WYF(at)W6JBT.SOCAL.CA.USA.NOAM Restoring 1950 Cessna 170A N9948A... Looking forward to RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 1997
From: John Ammeter <ammeterj(at)seanet.com>
Subject: Re: water traps
> >Quite some time ago this space included a great suggestion on how one could >construct a home-made trap for water in the line from an air compressor >which would guarantee that you don't get water in the gun when you want to >paint your project. It consisted of some length and elbows of PVC which >cool the air and provide a low point for water to settle in. It was simple >and cheap and sounded ingenious as a way for a simple homebuilder to >eliminate one of the problems that scare people off spray paint jobs. Does >anyone remember the instructions for the layout ? > What I remember was that you went to the hardware store and bought about 25 to 30 feet of 3/8" copper tubing; be sure it is the bendable type. Bend the tubing into a coil about 8" in diameter and place that coil in a plastic bucket. You'll have to fabricate fittings on the ends of the coil so that the bucket now has an 'in' fitting and an 'out' fitting. The 'out' fitting should be at the bottom of the bucket but leave enough room for a water separator to be installed on it. Fill the bucket with water and ice sufficient to cover the coil; your neighbors will think you've gone into the alcohol still business if they see this, BTW. This device will lower the temperature of the air so it cannot hold as much water. The water vapor will condense out and end up in the separator. Or so the theory goes; I haven't built mine, yet. John Ammeter ammeterj(at)seanet.com 3233 NE 95th St Seattle WA, 98115 USA RV-6 N16JA First flight August 1990 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 1997
From: Terry Mortimore <terry.mortimore(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Fuel Returns (was fuel injection)
I missed the original post which brought this response from Gary. I too would be very interested in details about such a system. I would think that dual fuel selectors would be VERY prone to create a fuel mismanagement problem. Does anyone know of a dual path fuel selector, or of a way to gang 2 standard selectors? Mike Wills RV-4 (wings) willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil Hi Mike: There is a fuel selector that switches both the feed and the return line. It is made by Innovating technology inc. they have a web site at http://www.silverlink.net/innov or e-mail at bmash(at)silverlink.net hope this helps, terry Terry Mortimore 2.7L Subaru RV-6A 38 Cartier St. Sault Ste Marie terry.mortimore(at)sympatico.ca Ontario Canada P6B-3K2 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com>
Subject: Re: RV-6A Wing Kit and Empennage for sale (regretfully)
Date: Mar 16, 1997
---------- > From: aol.com!Axcjjgreen(at)matronics.com > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: RV-6A Wing Kit and Empennage for sale (regretfully) > Date: Sunday, March 16, 1997 10:10 AM > > > I have an RV-6A wing kit with Phlogiston spars that I have to sell due to my > interested, please reply to my E-mail address . I am interested in your offer and would like to hear more. Do you have the complete set of plans ? I live in Vancouver BC . 604-596-0239. If you care to contact me, I would appreciate it. Austin Tinckler. Thank you. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 16, 1997
Subject: Re: Gascolator
Well said Bill, an excellent explination. Ryan ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Thanks
From: tpbaxter(at)juno.com (Thomas P Baxter)
Date: Mar 16, 1997
Thanks to all who responded to my first request for information from this group. I am sure others were helped by it as well. Time to search the archives. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 1997
From: Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com>
Subject: Old 'Sport Avaition' mags
I have lots of old copies of Sport Avaition from the '70s and '80s. I need to make them go away. I live in the south San Francisco bay area. If anybody wants them, thay are welcome to come and get them, otherwise, they're going to the big air field in the sky. Anybody that's willing to pay for shipping can have them as well. Chris cruble(at)cisco.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Where to find
From: tpbaxter(at)juno.com (Thomas P Baxter)
Date: Mar 16, 1997
Van's accessory catalog has a book called Standard Aircraft Handbook, 5th edition, which has this and a lot of other useful information. On page 103 is a chart that shows the minimum bolt protrusion through the nut for a 3/16 bolt to be .062. Hatfield) writes: >Some of the 3/16 bolts called out in the plans for the spar, after two >washers and a nut are on, the first thread doesn't quite show. I want >to >know what is acceptable. >In the FAA DOT book: Acceptable methods, Techniques and practices. >Aircraft Inspection and >repair. Where can I find info on this? Or is there another book I can >find this? >Thanks, Cecil Hatfield ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dennis Kane <dennis(at)robot.asimov.net>
Subject: Re: Old 'Sport Avaition' mags
I collect - trade - sell aviation ephemera (and am building an RV-6), would certainly pay shipping and wrapping costs. You can contact me he or take a look at my web page www.straylight.net Respectfully, Dennis Kane STRAYlight Aviation Ephemera On Sun, 16 Mar 1997, Chris Ruble wrote: > > I have lots of old copies of Sport Avaition from the '70s and '80s. > I need to make them go away. I live in the south San Francisco bay > area. If anybody wants them, thay are welcome to come and get them, > otherwise, they're going to the big air field in the sky. > > Anybody that's willing to pay for shipping can have them as well. > > Chris > cruble(at)cisco.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 1997
From: Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List:Warren Basler
Doug Rozendaal wrote: > > > I heard a blurb on CNN and Confirmed on the AP Web page that Warren Basler > of Basler Flight services of Osh Kosh WI was killed yesterday, along with 3 > others, when a DC-3 and a Bonanza collided South of Green Bay. Most of us > have bought fuel from Basler at Osh Kosh at one time or another. No details > of the mission were given. > > Basler was a long time operator of DC-3's and was also involved in a turbine > conversion program. > A front page article in the Milwaukee Journal today did not disclose any names, but said "Witnesses told officials that the two planes were flying together and that the smaller plane appeared to be maneuvering around the DC-3 before the collision" and "Some witnesses said it looked as though the smaller plane crashed into the side of the DC-3". Conditions were bight and sunny. Two were on board the A-36 and two or more on the DC-3, which crashed 45 mi. east of Oshkosh. Bob Reiff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net>
Subject: Horizontal Stab.
Date: Mar 16, 1997
I find the directions vague on fluting ribs. Do you flute on every mark as per plan? I'm using fluting pliers do you squeeze all the way? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 1997
From: Louis Willig <larywil(at)Op.Net>
Subject: Low-Wing Tanks & Gascolators
Dear Gang, I've been flying too long not to know the answers to the following questions. But, I still don't know 'em, and I'm too old to be afraid to ask. 1- Are the tanks in a low-wing craft, such as an RV, too low to cross feed. I've been flying nothing but Cessnas forever and I forgot what a fuel tank selector is for. Is it too dangerous to run a line low enough to let gravity do the job? 2- What does a gascolator really do? I just read B.B.'s explanation about the positioning of the gascolator, and I agree with all of what I understand. But I have a hard time visualizing how a gascolator does the job it's supposed to do. During engine operation, there is a fairly large volume of fuel flow accompanied by vibration. I would think that most particles ,as well as water, would remain suspended as the fuel goes through the gascolator. How do these aliens get separated? How do the sophisticated outfuel injected engines in today's automobiles do the job. We never drain them. Most people never, never, never examine them. There is probably more water and particulates in auto fuel to start with, and we probably pump five times as much fuel into our cars each year vs. our planes. The above questions are just that. I have no disagreements with the systems we use in our craft because I don't understand them enough. But I have been following the recent thread about fuel return lines and B.B.'s gascolator post and thought it's time I educated myself. Thanks in advance. Lou Willig ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 1997
From: Dean & Scott Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net>
Subject: Primer/Gascolator
Denny Harjehausen wrote: > > > Aircraft Spruce sell a epoxy primer... snip > I would like to hear some comments on gasolators on tail dragger. It would > seem to me that because the gasolator is not a low point in this > configuration that it just acts as just a filter. A filter located outside > of the engine compartment in a area that could be checked easily would work > fine and not be subjected to all that heat. What ya think? > > Denny..fuselage RV-6 Well, first on the (yikes not again!) primer thread. I now have a few years experience with water reduceable epoxy primer and will say briefly that: -at first I had serious doubts, but Bell Helicopter (I work for a service center) sent the stuff and said it was now their factory primer. We've shot gallons since then and the stuff is tough as nails. We shoot everything from polyurethanes to acrylic enamels over it (all brands, but mostly DuPont) with no problems whatsoever -and believe me, on a rotor head you will know if you have an adhesion problem. Clean up is wonderful -head to the sink and start the water... The stuff we use meets the same spec I believe as the AKZO. I'm now a believer. Gascolators... I am mounting mine directly off the four-port fuel selector I have (in the area just ahead of the stick) in my -4. It literally hangs from the selector on brass fittings and uses the selector mounting (which is centered in the fuse). A line runs from it to the floor where I have a modified (soldered a mounting flange on it) curtis drain valve. It is at the low point in the system (as low as I can get it anyway) and in turn feeds the elect. pump which is mounted adjacent to it in the same compartment. Access is easy -just remove the stick boot/alum cover. I did this because: (1) it is now at the low point (previously stated) (2) I have no heat problem and the need for blast tubes, etc. (3) I didn't have to figure out some sort of bracket for it. (4) It is crash protected (5) There is less junk on the firewall (6) It was easier and just plain made sense. Scott N4ZW ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 1997
From: "James K. Hurd" <hurd(at)riolink.com>
Subject: Wing Spar Flange Strips
Save me a call to Vans... I've checked the Archives and Justice Manual...and darn it, I know there has to be a real simple answer: all my 6A spar flange strips are 1/4-1/2 inch shorter than what plans call for. Yes, I know the angle cut has been made but are these measurements correct for the pre-drilled spars? Also, the upper strips are somewhat longer than the lower strips. And that's because the lower attach point extends out from the fuselage more than the wing dihedral, right? My guess is that inasmuch as that the wing spars are pre-drilled with the fuselage carry-thru, this is AS IT SHOULD BE. But I'm just kind of curious, so somebody please enlighten me. Jim Hurd RV6A in the dark right now... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 1997
From: John Ammeter <ammeterj(at)seanet.com>
Subject: Re: Horizontal Stab.
> >I find the directions vague on fluting ribs. Do you flute >on every mark as per plan? I'm using fluting pliers >do you squeeze all the way? > > You flute the ribs because you want to straighten them. When they are stamped they tend to end up with a slight curve. The flutes are intended to straighten out the rib so you only want to flute sufficiently to straighten the rib. You _could_ only flute every 5 or 6 inches and end up with a 'straight' rib but in reality it would be a series of curves and angles. It's best to flute every mark but only flute enough to straighten the rib. You don't want to squeeze all the way because then the rib would curve the other direction. John Ammeter ammeterj(at)seanet.com 3233 NE 95th St Seattle WA, 98115 USA RV-6 N16JA First flight August 1990 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 1997
From: Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Gasolator/filter ?
I see how the gasolator helps in the foreign matter filtering, but I am having trouble understanding how it separates water while the fuel is moving at the rate I picture. Unless it works on a centrifugal force theory, forcing the water to outside? I guess what bothers me is if it filters only why have it under the cowling in the heat which you have to in turn cool somehow. Wouldn't a filter that could be located an another location where it could be check easily on the preflight for dirt and check for water at the main tank drains (speaking of a -6 here). I must have mis-communicated the importance of the gasolator being at the low point. I have spent most of my flying life in jets and they didn't seem to care much what was ran through them. So not meaning to start a flap here, I just need some help on the knowlege end of this to re-inventing the wheel. Thanks in advance for any sincere answers and ideas. Respectfully, denny..RV-6 fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 1997
From: Dean & Scott Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net>
Subject: Re: Primer/Gascolator
Dean & Scott Spencer wrote: > Gascolators... I am mounting mine directly off the four-port fuel > selector I have (in the area just ahead of the stick) in my -4. > Scott > N4ZW This is an addendum to my own post. I realize that a gascolator does not have to be at the low point in the system to act as a water trap. Bill provided a very good explanation of that. I just liked the idea of being able to drain at the low point of the system. Cessna, a couple of years ago, issued a service bulletin (never mandated by the FAA) and kits to add a drain to the system in the belly of many of their models. They (at least from a liability standpoint) saw the benefit of being able to drain off the lowest point in the line. I thought 'heck' why not just put the gascolator there also? The biggest argument for this is the (probably pretty small) chance of water freezing in the line -water that never makes it to the gascolator, but just hangs at the low point. The flow rate is not that great really -not always enough to push water over the 'humps'. Ever watch a fluid flow at 8 gal/hr thru a 3/8" line? It's similar to watching paint dry. Scott N4ZW ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AB320FLYER(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 16, 1997
Subject: Re: Horizontal Stab.
mcomeaux, It's usually necessary to put at least some bend in each fluting site. The idea is to start with small flutes and observe the effect and then increase the depth in the area of the curve to get the desired flatness. Regards, Joel Harding (RV8-8004) ab320flyer(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 1997
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net>
Subject: Re: Horizontal Stab.
> >I find the directions vague on fluting ribs. Do you flute >on every mark as per plan? I'm using fluting pliers >do you squeeze all the way? Dear ?, I flute enough to get the rib to lie flat. You will learn after doing a few where and how much to flute. You can flute just a little (light squeeze)in a lot of places or flute more in fewer places. If you over-flute, flatten the flute with your hand seamer. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)navix.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MAlexan533(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 16, 1997
Subject: Re: Horizontal Stab.
The purpose of marking the rib flanges is so that you know where the rivets will go, and thus where you will not want to have a flute. After you mark the flanges, simply lay the rib on a flat surface with the flanges pointing up, it will usually have a twist in it. Hold one side of the twist flat against the table, this will cause the other side to rise up off the table, depending on how bad the twist is. Now go along with the fluting pliers, and a little bit at a time, flute the part of the rib that is up off the table. Go back and forth along that side until the rib lays perfectly flat. The key here is to not form each flute all at once, rather, just a little at a time, moving around the rib as necessary until it is straight, then stop. After you do a couple of them you'll find it is easy. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: immelmann(at)themall.net (Ed Holyoke)
Subject: Re: Primer/Gascolator
Date: Mar 17, 1997
>Well, first on the (yikes not again!) primer thread. I now have a few >years experience with water reduceable epoxy primer and will say briefly >that: >-at first I had serious doubts, but Bell Helicopter (I work for a >service center) sent the stuff and said it was now their factory primer. >We've shot gallons since then and the stuff is tough as nails. We shoot >everything from polyurethanes to acrylic enamels over it (all brands, >but mostly DuPont) with no problems whatsoever -and believe me, on a >rotor head you will know if you have an adhesion problem. Clean up is >wonderful -head to the sink and start the water... The stuff we use >meets the same spec I believe as the AKZO. I'm now a believer. >Scott >N4ZW > So Scott -- what primer is it that you are using? Ed Holyoke ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rvbildr(at)juno.com
Subject: Re:Riverdale paint store
Date: Mar 16, 1997
Joe, All your text consisted of was "index". Was that a coded message for me? Ha! Could you try again? Thanks. Mal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 1997
From: bcos(at)ix.netcom.com (William Costello )
Subject: Re: Horizontal Stab.
You wrote: > >I find the directions vague on fluting ribs. Do you flute >on every mark as per plan? I'm using fluting pliers >do you squeeze all the way? > George Orndorff's videos give some pretty good tips on fluting. I think the idea is to flute only enough to straigten the rib. You should flute with the rib lying on a very flat surface and make small flutes (1/32 inch or less). You can always come back and make deeper ones. Of course, you can sort of reverse flute and take some of the flute out, but it works much better to not have to do that. If you observe the effect of the bow on the rib as you flute, you will learn which fluting locations affect the curvature and will develop a technique. When you are fluting on one side, as soon as the rib is flat, stop and go to the other side. Get it flat and then check the first side. Best regards and hope this helps, Bill Costello bcos(at)ix.netcom.com -- Bill Costello | bcos(at)ix.netcom.com | Building RV-6 | Reserv N97WC Want an extra hour and a half of energy per day with Super Blue Green products? Email for info or call 800-325-7544 Chicago ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 17, 1997
Subject: Re: Horizontal Stab.
From: ab6a(at)juno.com (ALLAN E POMEROY)
Marks for fluting? Is this a pre-punched kit? Lay your ribs web side down and flanges up on a flat surface, preferably with a light source behind it. You will see that the ribs will be "bowed" upwards, towards the center, away from the ends of them. You flute about half way between each rivet hole. Be sure that the flute goes inward and just give the fluting pliers a VERY LIGHT squeeze at each point. You can always go back and just give them another squeeze as needed to make the rib lay flat on the surface. DO NOT squeeze all the way with the pliers. This is a gradual process and may have to be done more than once on each rib to get them to lay flat. Fluting is a way of shrinking the flanges to make the rib straight. Hope this helps. Allan Pomeroy CNY AB6A(at)juno.com H S Skeleton (on hold) writes: > >I find the directions vague on fluting ribs. Do you flute >on every mark as per plan? I'm using fluting pliers >do you squeeze all the way? > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kevin lane <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: cowling fitting ideas
Date: Mar 17, 1997
after a long weekend fitting the cowling on my 6A some notes for what it's worth: 1. I found no advantage in fitting the top first as stated in the manual. The bottom is significantly harder since gravity works against you and the extra fore/aft length can't extend past the finish cut position as with the upper. 2. after mounting the rear spinner plate to the engine flange (don't forget the starter ring thickness) with some pipe nipple spacers and carriage bolts, I drilled two small holes to create "studs" using common hrdw. These initially pointed forward and fit in two holes in the lower cowling that positioned it to the correct height (i.e. center lines on fiberglass line up with the spinner plate as desired.) but didn't restrict forward/back movement. Mount cowling AHEAD of the spinner so that extra material isn't wrapped around outside of fuselage cabin area. 3. the cowling was then scribed the offset required to shift it to the clearance desired BEHIND the spinner plate (1/4-3/8") and cut 4. the bolt studs were next mounted pointing rearward and now would hold the front in place while detailed trimming fit the rear. Lots of duct tape needed! 5. finish cut lower cowl horizontally from spinner center elevation in front to that 17 3/4" elev. up from floor. A very tight nylon string will give a very straight line. 6. fit upper cowl to bottom. Extra length on aft end overlaps nicely on canopy deck. Fit front inlets. Horizontal cut elevation should be also near spinner center elev. but approach with several progressive cuts and files. (may want spinner a bit high to compensate for future droop, tho' Tom Green says his never never did(must be one of those straight & level types)) 7. note that the radius of the fiberglass is greater than the radius of the floor pan which it butts up to. 8. wonder how you will fix this. Additional air inlets perhaps? Another whole weekend? )-: I have been thinking of making my cowling separation hinge pins pull from the cockpit as seen in a plane up in Battleground, WA. Does this idea actually work well? (no, they're not emergency cowl releases!) kevin N3773 6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kevin lane <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Horizontal Stab.
Date: Mar 17, 1997
> >I find the directions vague on fluting ribs. Do you flute >on every mark as per plan? I'm using fluting pliers >do you squeeze all the way? > I found the fastest way was to flute every mark, a bit deeper as the radius of the edge decreases, and then lay the rib on the table. It will be a bit over corrected. Then with some hand seamers start flattening the flutes back to the original unfluted state enough to make the rib lay flat. Might as well take a 5/16" block and scribe a flange center line on it too while it's setting there. Red markers show better. You get really good at it just about when you run out of ribs (-: kevin N3773 cowling(...rrrrr....) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Mosur" <jmosur(at)interlog.com>
Subject: Ivo prop-rv-6
Date: Mar 10, 1997
I am building a rv-6 using aMazda rotary, engine is installed. I am down to the short strokes and now I have to start thinking about a prop. Is there anyone out there with experience on a Ivo Magnum. I have talked to Ivo but have got two different answers, one said use a two blade other said a three blade. HELP. Jim Mosur, Brampton , Ontario. jmour(at)interlog.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 1997
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: 6/6A Rear Bottom Skin Oilcanning
Dennis Persyk wrote: > > > After talking to dozens of 6/6A flyers at Oshkosh, I feel that I ought to > reinforce the bottom rear fuselage skin area to reduce oil-canning. The > Orndorf video calls out gluing insulation in the rear bottom skin to > overcome oil-caning but this seems crude. > I am considering running two additional J-channels from F612 to F606. They > would diverge symmetrically about the center line and be installed on the > bottom skin just like the side channels. I am going to mill out a simple > C-clamp operated die set to form the joggles. > Comments from flying 6/6A builders on the oil-canning and my proposed mod > would be appreciated. > Note that if you fly with good headsets you may unaware of the effect! > Thank you. > Dennis fuselage in jig Speaking of oil canning could someone please explain to me exactly what they are experiencing. In all the hrs. I have flown my RV-6(over 800) and all the RV's I have been in and flown I have never heard or experienced oil canning. I guess I am just trying to figure out how the term oil canning is used in regard to a RV. -- Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net>
Subject: Re: Horizontal Stab.
Date: Mar 16, 1997
Thanks John. I appreciate the help. ---------- > From: John Ammeter <seanet.com!ammeterj(at)matronics.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Horizontal Stab. > Date: Sunday, March 16, 1997 7:39 PM > > > > > >I find the directions vague on fluting ribs. Do you flute > >on every mark as per plan? I'm using fluting pliers > >do you squeeze all the way? > > > > > You flute the ribs because you want to straighten them. When they are > stamped they tend to end up with a slight curve. The flutes are intended to > straighten out the rib so you only want to flute sufficiently to straighten > the rib. You _could_ only flute every 5 or 6 inches and end up with a > 'straight' rib but in reality it would be a series of curves and angles. > It's best to flute every mark but only flute enough to straighten the rib. > You don't want to squeeze all the way because then the rib would curve the > other direction. > > John Ammeter > ammeterj(at)seanet.com > 3233 NE 95th St > Seattle WA, 98115 USA > RV-6 N16JA > First flight August 1990 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LesDrag(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 17, 1997
Subject: Re: Ivo prop-rv-6
I am building a rv-6 using aMazda rotary, engine is installed. I am down to the short strokes and now I have to start thinking about a prop. Is there anyone out there with experience on a Ivo Magnum. I have talked to Ivo but have got two different answers, one said use a two blade other said a three blade. HELP. Jim Mosur, Brampton , Ontario. jmour(at)interlog.com >> Hi All, I've been flying the Ivoprop Magnum prop for the last three years, which included the prototype prop that I believe only Ivo and I flew. Ivo typically recommends a two bladed prop for a ground adjustable installation, and a three bladed prop for the electric flight adjustable installation. The prop hub is identical for a two blade, or a three blade, installation. Two inserts are added in the hub for the two blade installation, which is standard. If you have specific questions about the prop, or have more information about your engine installation (horsepower, RPM, etc), please feel free to contact me direct. Jim Ayers LesDrag(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LesDrag(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 17, 1997
Subject: Re: Ivo prop-rv-6
I am building a rv-6 using aMazda rotary, engine is installed. I am down to the short strokes and now I have to start thinking about a prop. Is there anyone out there with experience on a Ivo Magnum. I have talked to Ivo but have got two different answers, one said use a two blade other said a three blade. HELP. Jim Mosur, Brampton , Ontario. jmour(at)interlog.com >> Hello Jim, I've flown about five combinations of two and three blade Magnum blades on the electric flight adjustable hub from Ivoprop. I don't work for Ivoprop. However, I am a distributor for Ivoprop. But mainly, I have been doing (unpaid) product flight testing for Ivo for the past three years in an effort to get his prop ready for FAA certification. I would be help you in any way I can. Even if it is just to clarify the correct prop for you to order from Ivoprop. I can usually contact Ivo anytime during the day, or the evening. Jim Ayers LesDrag(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 17, 1997
From: Stephen Jackson Soule <ssoule(at)vbimail.champlain.edu>
Subject: Re: Horizontal Stab. Fluting
Hello, You lay the rib web side down on a flat table top and look to see where it is not flat. rock it from side to side and end to end. Keep the flanges pointing up toward you. Then flute only as many marks and squeeze only as hard as you need to make that rib lie flat. You may not need to flute every mark and some of you flutes will be very shallow indeed. Steve Soule Huntington, VT (left wing done, right wing in the jig, fiting tank skin, still two #&*# feet of snow on the ground and no degrees (zero) outside). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Re: Wing Spar Flange Strips
Date: Mar 17, 1997
> I've checked the Archives and Justice Manual...and darn it, I know there > has to be a real simple answer: all my 6A spar flange strips are > 1/4-1/2 inch shorter than what plans call for. Yes, I know the angle > cut has been made but are these measurements correct for the pre-drilled > spars? > > Also, the upper strips are somewhat longer than the lower strips. And > that's because the lower attach point extends out from the fuselage more > than the wing dihedral, right? > > My guess is that inasmuch as that the wing spars are pre-drilled with > the fuselage carry-thru, this is AS IT SHOULD BE. But I'm just kind of > curious, so somebody please enlighten me. > > Jim Hurd RV6A in the dark right now... Jim -- The upper strips should be shorter than the lower strips due entirely to wing dihedral. Perhaps you have confused yourself as to which are uppers, which are lowers? The manual is confusing in this regard -- it talks about the 1 dot vs. 2 dots, but the explanation is such that it's easy to swap what they mean. Note that the strips can NOT be put back on the spar in the wrong places -- they have a different number of holes near the inboard edge. (Gotta give up the dihedral amount by the time it exits the fuselage.) So I would recommend you take the two longest ones, match them back to the spar, and see if your comments above are still accurate. Assuming you have a relatively recent wing kit, your flanges are already pre-drilled to your spar. Thus, the last hole will land where it is supposed to, and you should be fine. If yours isn't pre-drilled, call Van's. -Joe -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-551-1072 14190 47th Ave N. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry H. Prado" <jerryprado(at)wa.net>
Subject: 1991 wing kit
Date: Mar 17, 1997
I have an opportunity to purchases a 1991 king kit. Most skins have = visible corrosion. I have no problem in building the older, less = prepared kit. Does anyone have an oppinion as to what this kit is worth? = Thanks Jerry Prado, completed tail. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 17, 1997
Subject: Re: Gascolators and Fuel Filters
Does anybody know of a fuel filter that has -6 or 1/4" NPT fittings. I'm going to remove my gascolator but I still want to filter my fuel. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC - NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 17, 1997
From: Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Old 'Sport Avaition' mags
Sorry, they have been claimed. Chris > > I collect - trade - sell aviation ephemera (and am building an RV-6), > would certainly pay shipping and wrapping costs. You can contact me he or > take a look at my web page www.straylight.net > > Respectfully, > > Dennis Kane > STRAYlight Aviation Ephemera > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Yablon" <brian(at)lanart.com>
Date: Mar 17, 1997
Subject: Re: water traps
Re: Airline water traps... > Quite some time ago this space included a great suggestion on how one could > construct a home-made trap for water in the line from an air compressor > ... > It consisted of some length and elbows of PVC which I don't mean this to sound preachy, but... My Campbell-Hausfeld owner's manual warns to NEVER use PVC components in compressed air supply lines! I have a mechanic friend who would attest to the wisdom of the manual: He tried to save a buck by plumbing his shop with PVC air lines, and was seriously injured when one of the lines fractured and blew sharp PVC shards around his shop. Even though some folks might (still) be getting away with this practice, it is unsafe! I built an airline dryer out of an old drywall bucket filled with a coil of copper tubing. You fill the bucket with ice water and a few of those blue ice cooler packs. The output of the copper coil feeds a conventional airline water trap. Works great, especially in the humid summer! -Brian Yablon brian(at)lanart.com Framingham, MA RV6A #24571 Dressing wing spar components... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian Yablon Position: Hardware Engineer LANart Corporation Internet: byablon(at)lanart.com 145 Rosemary Street, Suite D1 Ma-bell: (617) 444-1994 x206 Needham, MA 02194 FAX: (617) 444-3692 LANart: Difference by Design ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 17, 1997
From: n5lp(at)carlsbad.net (Larry Pardue)
Subject: Re: Horizontal Stab.
> >I find the directions vague on fluting ribs. Do you flute >on every mark as per plan? I'm using fluting pliers >do you squeeze all the way? Flute on every mark to distribute the adjustment. No, you don't squeeze all the way. Squeeze every mark lightly then check rib straightness. If you need some more adjustment, squeeze every mark a little more. If you went too far you might try flattening the flutes a little. On my recent tail kit the ribs needed only light fluting. A couple didn't need any. Larry Pardue Pacer N8025D RV-6 N441LP Rudder Carlsbad, NM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 17, 1997
From: Gene Gottschalk <geneg(at)oz.kis.net>
Subject: Re: Horizontal Stab.
I see there were a lot of answers to this question, but I didn't see anyone mention bending the flange perpendicular (or to whatever angle your trying to get so the skin lays flat) to the flange as you work. This will save you from having to go back and re-flute again once you get the skin to fit smoothly. Gene Gottschalk > >Thanks John. I appreciate the help. > >---------- >> From: John Ammeter <seanet.com!ammeterj(at)matronics.com> >> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Horizontal Stab. >> Date: Sunday, March 16, 1997 7:39 PM >> >> >> > >> >I find the directions vague on fluting ribs. Do you flute >> >on every mark as per plan? I'm using fluting pliers >> >do you squeeze all the way? >> > >> > >> You flute the ribs because you want to straighten them. When they are >> stamped they tend to end up with a slight curve. The flutes are intended >to >> straighten out the rib so you only want to flute sufficiently to >straighten >> the rib. You _could_ only flute every 5 or 6 inches and end up with a >> 'straight' rib but in reality it would be a series of curves and angles. >> It's best to flute every mark but only flute enough to straighten the >rib. >> You don't want to squeeze all the way because then the rib would curve >the >> other direction. >> >> John Ammeter >> ammeterj(at)seanet.com >> 3233 NE 95th St >> Seattle WA, 98115 USA >> RV-6 N16JA >> First flight August 1990 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernesto Sanchez" <es12043(at)utech.net>
Subject: Re: Ivo prop-rv-6
Date: Mar 17, 1997
I'm also interested in hearing more about the Ivo Prop. I wanted a three bladed composite prop for its smoothness. I have a Buick motor 200-210hp, belted reduction going to be used on the RV-6. What is their highest rated RPM?? Price? Warranty?? Ernesto Sanchez es12043(at)utech.net ---------- > From: aol.com!LesDrag(at)matronics.com > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; jmour(at)interlog.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Ivo prop-rv-6 > Date: Sunday, March 16, 1997 10:55 PM > > > > > I am building a rv-6 using aMazda rotary, engine is installed. I am down to > the short strokes and now I have to start thinking about a prop. Is there > anyone out there with experience on a Ivo Magnum. I have talked to Ivo but > have got two different answers, one said use a two blade other > said a three blade. HELP. Jim Mosur, Brampton , Ontario. > jmour(at)interlog.com >> > > Hello Jim, > > I've flown about five combinations of two and three blade Magnum blades on > the electric flight adjustable hub from Ivoprop. > > I don't work for Ivoprop. However, I am a distributor for Ivoprop. > > But mainly, I have been doing (unpaid) product flight testing for Ivo for the > past three years in an effort to get his prop ready for FAA certification. > > I would be help you in any way I can. Even if it is just to clarify the > correct prop for you to order from Ivoprop. I can usually contact Ivo > anytime during the day, or the evening. > > Jim Ayers > LesDrag(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 17, 1997
Subject: Re: Gascolators and Fuel Filters
Gary, Jeg's automotive catolague has a nice assortment of filters hose and fittings. They have a nice inline 40 micron metal filter with AN type fittings on each end. PN# 799-5013. Have them send you a catolague toll free number is 1-800-345-4545 you will all find many usefull things in there. This filter is a metal mesh type filter,can be taken appart and cleaned and wont collect water. Ryan RV4131RB(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________ <9106B0327B3ACF11ACEF00805FD47A0B025B15FE@RED-67-MSG.dns.microsoft.com>
Date: Mar 17, 1997
From: John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com>
Subject: Speaking of Primers
> >Deft makes a 2 part epoxy primer which is "water" soluble. It really >cuts much better with alcohol though. It is a fully fluid resistant mil >spec primer and is used by Boeing. I don't have a good source for it >though. Someone else on the list a while back was advertising some for >sale. I've been using it and it seems to work great. Hard to mix though. This is the primer used on the GlaStar. Good stuff. Stoddard Hamilton sells it by the gallon, but I don't know if they will sell it to other then GS builders. Danny White, a Glastar builder who provides several prefabbed components and services for GS builders sells it in both quart and gallon lots. e-mail - duba(at)gate.net John Top #5372 (619) 549-3556 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 17, 1997
Subject: Re: Gasolator/filter ?
Denny, I think the gascolator gets a bad rap. Ive been running a gascolator on my 4 for 3 years with no problems. Ocasionally when I take it appart to clean the screen I find small amounts of sediment on the bottom. I have no sheilding around my gascolator and am running an Ellison which is supposedly highly suseptable to vapor lock. The only time ive had any indication of vapor lock is after heat soaking on the ground for awhile. Once the lines are cleared with the boost pump I can turn off the pump and the engine will run all day. I like having the gascolator mainly as a water trap or as an indicator that I have been running water through my system. Ryan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough)
Date: Mar 17, 1997
Subject: I'm Back and apologies
This note is to apologies to the list for any problems caused by the recent cock-ups caused by my ISP. I presume I was kicked of majordomo because of lots of returned messages from the list and have just had my email restored after some serious fights with my provider. If anyone had either sent me a message directly or responded on the list to one of my posts in the last 2-3 weeks, then I probably didn't get it....sorry if it seemed like I was ignoring you. Ken Hitchmough RV6A Flying ken.hitchmough(at)magic.ca ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Caldwell" <rlcaldwell@utah-inter.net>
Subject: LYC 0-320 C/S Props
Date: Mar 17, 1997
I plan to use my O-320-D3G (160hp) in my Piper Cherokee for my RV6A. I want to install a Hartzell C/S prop but it requires 7/16s flange bolts. My existing bolts are 3/8s. Does anyone know if my 3/8 flange bolts can be replaced with 7/16s?. Are there any potential problems if you can replace them? If I can't, then I guess I'll have to study using fixed pitch prop options. I need to figured this issue out soon as I need to order my Finish Kit this week. Thanks in advance for any help. Ron Caldwell RV6A - N655RV Reserved rlcaldwell@utah-inter.utah 801-968-2964 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Gascolators and Fuel Filters
Date: Mar 17, 1997
From: Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)highfiber.com>
Gary Corde asked: Does anybody know of a fuel filter that has -6 or 1/4" NPT fittings. I'm going to remove my gascolator but I still want to filter my fuel. ------------------------ I bought two fuel filters from Airflow Performance (the same folks who make aftermarket fuel injection systems, (864) 576-4512, FAX (864) 576-0201). They are billet aluminum, about 1-5/8" in diameter, about 5" long, with AN 816-6-6D fitting at both ends. They use a stainless filter rated at 150 microns, and list for $93.00 each. Not cheap, but a good quality product. I'm not flying yet, so I can't report on their use. Sue Rodin here in Albuquerque has them in her RV-4, also with Airflow's fuel injector, used for Sportsman acro. These filters can be opened up to allow you to clean the stainless filters periodically/as required. Hope this helps. Mike Kukulski RV-4 N96MK kukulski(at)highfiber.com Albuquerque, NM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Primer/Gascolator
From: ron.taborek(at)flight642.com (RON TABOREK)
Date: Mar 17, 1997
Scott, Your idea of the gascolator on the fuel valve sounds great. Would you elaborate please on what a "curtis drain valve" is? I also plumbed my gascolator in that bay but mounted on the rib. -> Gascolators... I am mounting mine directly off the four-port fuel -> selector I have (in the area just ahead of the stick) in my -4. It -> literally hangs from the selector on brass fittings and uses the -> selector mounting (which is centered in the fuse). A line runs from -> it to the floor where I have a modified (soldered a mounting flange -> on it) curtis drain valve. It is at the low point in the system (as -> low as I Ron Taborek RV-4 Installing O-320 Toronto ron.taborek(at)flight642.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 17, 1997
From: Dean Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net>
Subject: Re: Gascolators and Fuel Filters
aol.com!RV6junkie(at)matronics.com wrote: > > > Does anybody know of a fuel filter that has -6 or 1/4" NPT fittings. I'm > going to remove my gascolator but I still want to filter my fuel. > > Gary Corde > RV-6 N211GC - NJ You might try Summit Racing -an automotive hop-up/racing outfit. They have a selection of cleanable machined from alum billet inline filters. They are available with AN flare. I don't have any personal experience with these (yet) -I've just noticed them in the catalog. Summit also carries Aeroquip stuff. Don't have the catalog with me or I'd give an address/#. Scott N4ZW ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 17, 1997
From: Richard TREANOR <treanor(at)ci.sunnyvale.ca.us>
Subject: Thanks & Congrats!
Hello RV-Listers- I've been eaves-dropping for a couple of months now. Purchased empennage kit in December...waiting for tools and workshop completion. Thanks to Russell Sly of Spanish Fork Utah for his generosity in giving me a ride (even got in a little acro) in his sweet little RV-6A on Saturday. I enjoyed myself immensely...came out smiling ear to ear! Handles like a fighter...fast, nimble yet stable and a joy to fly. As a former Navy Intruder pilot I've really had no interest in general aviation (that I could afford) since leaving the service, and haven't piloted and aircraft for over 15 years. However, my interest was rekindled when reading about the performance available through home-built aircraft. After a few years of investigation I chose the RV-6. So...Congratulations to all you RV builders and you lucky RV pilots and Van's Aircraft. Rich Treanor Sunnyvale, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 17, 1997
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net>
Subject: Speaking of Primers
>>Deft makes a 2 part epoxy primer which is "water" soluble. It really >This is the primer used on the GlaStar. Good stuff. Stoddard Hamilton sells >it by the gallon, but I don't know if they will sell it to other then GS >builders. Danny White, a Glastar builder who provides several prefabbed >components and services for GS builders sells it in both quart and gallon >lots. e-mail - duba(at)gate.net > >John Top #5372 >(619) 549-3556 RVers, DEFT is tough stuff. Much more so than Vari prime and a little more so than S-W wash primer. It's a pain to mix because the base component is very, very thick. It's mixed two parts base to 1 part catlyst and then reduced 150-175% with water. The gun cleans up with water fairly easily but you have to clean the mixing equipment fast or it's a bear to get off. Even acetone has a tough time if the DEFT primer is left on mixing cups, etc. The other downside to this primer is that it takes a long time to dry. With Variprime or S-W, by the time you get down the line of a lot of parts, the first of the line is dry enough to flip over. Not so with the DEFT. I imagine drying time would be even longer in humid climates. Also, the cost is pretty high. DEFT is very resistant to Acetone, unlike Vari prime which is instantly disolved. DEFT has a web page at: http://www.deftfinishes.com/ Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)navix.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: QFA1(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 17, 1997
Subject: DUMB ?s
This is my first attempt at xmitting, so please bear with me! My dumb ?s r: 1. Has anyone attempted a tapered wing configuration on an RV? 2. Would round-head rivets significantly increase drag--would it be worth the time savings, i.e. not dimpling, etc.? Check out the "new" Seneca on pg. 67 of FLYING mag. Apr. 97 Hope this reaches someone!! Greg Hughes--QFA1(at)AOL.COM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: LYC 0-320 C/S Props
Date: Mar 17, 1997
You can replace the 3/8 prop bushings with 7/16 bushings. This has been discussed on the list before. The bushings are pressed (force fit) into the crank shaft flange. They can be pressed out (put a socket behind it and maybe some strong C clamp. I simply warmed mine up some with a tourch and tapped them out with a hammer. Support the back of the crank if you can. It has a lot of mass so it should not hurt it. I did this to simply replace some with the same thread size as the threads were stripped or pulled. I think there is even a Lyc Service Instruction or bulletin on this for converting to 7/16 for CS prop. Check the parts manual for the proper PN. There is normally 5 of one size and one (the index) is a different size. For CS prop it may be different as I have seen different indexes (sometimes two) on CS props. Herman > > I plan to use my O-320-D3G (160hp) in my Piper Cherokee for my RV6A. I > want to install a Hartzell C/S prop but it requires 7/16s flange bolts. My > existing bolts are 3/8s. Does anyone know if my 3/8 flange bolts can be > replaced with 7/16s?. Are there any potential problems if you can replace > them? If I can't, then I guess I'll have to study using fixed pitch prop > options. I need to figured this issue out soon as I need to order my > Finish Kit this week. Thanks in advance for any help. > > Ron Caldwell > RV6A - N655RV Reserved > rlcaldwell@utah-inter.utah > 801-968-2964 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 17, 1997
From: Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Warren Basler
> A front page article in the Milwaukee Journal today did not disclose any > names, but said "Witnesses told officials that the two planes were flying > together and that the smaller plane appeared to be maneuvering around the > DC-3 before the collision" and "Some witnesses said it looked as though > the smaller plane crashed into the side of the DC-3". Conditions were > bight and sunny. Two were on board the A-36 and two or more on the DC-3, > which crashed 45 mi. east of Oshkosh. The local TV news last night said they were doing a photo shoot of the DC-3, which had just had the turbo conversion. All four killed were Basler employees. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 17, 1997
Subject: Re: Gascolators and Fuel Filters
<< Does anybody know of a fuel filter that has -6 or 1/4" NPT fittings. I'm going to remove my gascolator but I still want to filter my fuel. >> Gary- Wicks has P/N 230106 for around $30 that has 37 degree male ports for standard -6 (3/8") fittings. It is a sintered bronze element and looks to be a quality unit. Kindest Regards, Gary VanRemortel vanremog(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 17, 1997
From: Glenn & Judi <flyers@anet-chi.com>
Subject: RV-6 Top Skins
Hi, I am ready to start the fitting of the rear top fuselage skin, F-675. The instructions mention two method, backdrilling or tracing the position of the bulkheard and stringers on the skin and then drilling. It would seem that the second method is just asking for trouble. Am suggestions or comments on which method to use? Thanks for the help, Glenn Gordon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 17, 1997
From: John Ammeter <ammeterj(at)seanet.com>
Subject: Re: LYC 0-320 C/S Props
> >I plan to use my O-320-D3G (160hp) in my Piper Cherokee for my RV6A. I >want to install a Hartzell C/S prop but it requires 7/16s flange bolts. My >existing bolts are 3/8s. Does anyone know if my 3/8 flange bolts can be >replaced with 7/16s?. No problem. Just order the 7/16" 'nuts' that are in the prop flange. You can spend about $32.00 each from Lycoming or $16.00 from a salvage place. It's easy to press off the old 'nuts' and replace them with the new 7/16" ones. You may have to file or grind one of them shorter but no big deal. I was planning to do all this to my E2A (which also came from a Cherokee) but then found that the previous owner had replaced the crank with one that wasn't equipped with the cross-over tube inside the front of the crank. :>(( Are there any potential problems if you can replace >them? If I can't, then I guess I'll have to study using fixed pitch prop >options. I need to figured this issue out soon as I need to order my >Finish Kit this week. Thanks in advance for any help. > >Ron Caldwell >RV6A - N655RV Reserved >rlcaldwell@utah-inter.utah >801-968-2964 > > > John Ammeter ammeterj(at)seanet.com 3233 NE 95th St Seattle WA, 98115 USA RV-6 N16JA First flight August 1990 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com>
Subject: RV-6 Top Skins
Date: Mar 17, 1997
>>I am ready to start the fitting of the rear top fuselage skin, F-675. >>The instructions mention two method, backdrilling or tracing the >>position of the bulkheard and stringers on the skin and then drilling. >... >>Glenn Gordon > Hey Glenn - I used the second method (tracing the bulkhead and stringers). Of course, I had the skin on and off about three times tracing it to make sure everything was correct, things weren't moving, etc. After that I figured out all the rivet spacing and drilled them on the workbench, then belted it back on, rechecked everything a fifth and sixth time, and then started drilling into the bulkhead and strings starting at the top middle and working my way out. It worked fine. I backdrilled all the holes along the horizontal edges of course. ------------------------------------------ Mitchell Faatz San Jose, CA RV-6AQME N727MF (reserved) Working on left wing: rigging aileron > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KennyCobb(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 17, 1997
Subject: Re Palm Bay, Fl or Melbourne Fl ( chatter )
Anyone on the list from Palm Bay, Fl or Melbourne Fl Please send me your E-mail address I would like some local info. Ken Crabtree kennycobb(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Caldwell" <rlcaldwell@utah-inter.net>
Subject: Re: LYC 0-320 C/S Props
Date: Mar 17, 1997
Thanks to both Herman Dierks and John Ammeter for the info on changing out the 3/8s flange bolts with 7/16s. I was really happy to know that I can go ahead with my plans to install a Hartzell C/S prop. I live here in the Rocky Mountains and the extra climb capibility will come in handy. I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has a 160hp C/S prop. It would be interesting to see what kind of performance your getting. I suspect its not as good as a 180hp C/S but I would imagine that at least climb rates are better than a fixed pitch prop. Thanks for the help. Ron Caldwell RV6A - N655RV Skinning Fuselage rlcaldwell@utah-inter.net ---------- > From: John Ammeter <seanet.com!ammeterj(at)matronics.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: LYC 0-320 C/S Props > Date: Monday, March 17, 1997 9:13 PM > > <rlcaldwell@utah-inter.net> > > > >I plan to use my O-320-D3G (160hp) in my Piper Cherokee for my RV6A. I > >want to install a Hartzell C/S prop but it requires 7/16s flange bolts. My > >existing bolts are 3/8s. Does anyone know if my 3/8 flange bolts can be > >replaced with 7/16s?. > > > No problem. Just order the 7/16" 'nuts' that are in the prop flange. You > can spend about $32.00 each from Lycoming or $16.00 from a salvage place. > It's easy to press off the old 'nuts' and replace them with the new 7/16" > ones. You may have to file or grind one of them shorter but no big deal. I > was planning to do all this to my E2A (which also came from a Cherokee) but > then found that the previous owner had replaced the crank with one that > wasn't equipped with the cross-over tube inside the front of the crank. :>(( > > > > Are there any potential problems if you can replace > >them? If I can't, then I guess I'll have to study using fixed pitch prop > >options. I need to figured this issue out soon as I need to order my > >Finish Kit this week. Thanks in advance for any help. > > > >Ron Caldwell > >RV6A - N655RV Reserved > >rlcaldwell@utah-inter.utah > >801-968-2964 > > > > > > > John Ammeter > ammeterj(at)seanet.com > 3233 NE 95th St > Seattle WA, 98115 USA > RV-6 N16JA > First flight August 1990 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 17, 1997
From: Elon <elon.o(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Buick Motor was (Ivo prop-rv-6)
Ernesto Sanchez wrote: I'm also interested in hearing more about the Ivo Prop. I wanted a three bladed composite prop for its smoothness. I have a Buick motor 200-210hp, belted reduction going to be used on the RV-6. What is their highest rated RPM?? Price? Warranty?? --------------------------------------- Ernesto: What kind of Buick is it? V-6 or 8, iron or aluminum? The late Steve Witman was flying an inverted, direct drive!, aluminum, Olds V-8 in his tail wind. He published a white paper on his development and instalation. Some of his mods were quite interesting. I see Aircraft Spruce still sells Steve's Tailwind plans. You might contact them for more information. Elon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 17, 1997
From: Elon <elon.o(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Gascolators and Fuel Filters
Dean Spencer wrote: Does anybody know of a fuel filter that has -6 or 1/4" NPT fittings. ----------- You might try Summit Racing. . . They have a selection of cleanable machined from alum billet inline filters. They are available with AN flare. Summit also carries Aeroquip stuff. Scott. --------------------------- Some numbers for Summit Racing Equipment are: Order line, 24hr/day, 7 days/week - 330/630-3030 Retail Store - 330/630-0250 Customer Service - 330/630-0230 Espanol - 330/630-1626 Elon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 17, 1997
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: LYC 0-320 C/S Props
Ron Caldwell wrote: > > > Thanks to both Herman Dierks and John Ammeter for the info on changing out > the 3/8s flange bolts with 7/16s. I was really happy to know that I can go > ahead with my plans to install a Hartzell C/S prop. I live here in the > Rocky Mountains and the extra climb capibility will come in handy. I would > appreciate hearing from anyone who has a 160hp C/S prop. It would be > interesting to see what kind of performance your getting. I suspect its > not as good as a 180hp C/S but I would imagine that at least climb rates > are better than a fixed pitch prop. Thanks for the help. > > Ron Caldwell > RV6A - N655RV > Skinning Fuselage > rlcaldwell@utah-inter.net > > ---------- Ron My hanger partner has a 160 hp C/S in his -6 and it flies every bit as good as my 180 hp fixed pitch wood prop in my -6 and in some instances it is even better, climb rate is better, his fuel economy is better at say 3000 ft and above, at lower altitudes I have it with the extra horsepower he has to run at a higher power setting to fly at the same speed as me. He is not on the list but I am sure he would be happy to give you specifics if you want to email him at -- Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough)
Date: Mar 18, 1997
Subject: Re: DUMB ?s
My dumb ?s r: 1. Has anyone attempted a tapered wing configuration on an RV? Greg, David Fried in Toronto is in the final stages of a taperwing 6. It should be flying early next year. I think he wrote something in the archives a year or so ago. The wings look GREAT and the whole plan view should be really pretty compared to the Hershey bar wing. As to performance, he calculates (he's an aerodynamicist) that it should be aboutthe same, as he made them a little longer. I don't have his email address, but if you search the archives you should find him. Dave...you listening? Hows about an update? Ken RV6A Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough)
Date: Mar 18, 1997
Subject: Re: DUMB ?s
My dumb ?s r: 1. Has anyone attempted a tapered wing configuration on an RV? Greg, David Fried in Toronto is in the final stages of a taperwing 6. It should be flying early next year. I think he wrote something in the archives a year or so ago. The wings look GREAT and the whole plan view should be really pretty compared to the Hershey bar wing. As to performance, he calculates (he's an aerodynamicist) that it should be aboutthe same, as he made them a little longer. I don't have his email address, but if you search the archives you should find him. Dave...you listening? Hows about an update? Ken RV6A Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Re Palm Bay, Fl or Melbourne Fl ( chatter )
From: wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen)
Date: Mar 18, 1997
Ken, I'll be based at Sabastian Airport for the week of April 5-6 for the Sun 'N Fun Flyin. (I commute from my parent's place.) If your in the area, amybe we could get together some afternoon...... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen1(at)juno.com writes: > > Anyone on the list from Palm Bay, Fl or Melbourne Fl Please send me >your E-mail address I would like some local info. > > Ken Crabtree > kennycobb(at)aol.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: prop selection
<332E394A.7DF6(at)ix.netcom.com>
From: bstobbe(at)juno.com (Bruce D Stobbe)
Date: Mar 18, 1997
writes: >My hanger partner has a 160 hp C/S in his -6 and it flies every bit as >good as my 180 hp fixed pitch wood prop in my -6 and in some instances >it is even better >From the stupid-question-of-the-day bin: I would prefer to go the 180 HP/fixed-pitch prop route but am somewhat scared by my lack of knowledge of proper care and feeding of wood props. In other words, I know next to nothing about them compared with knowing slightly more than nothing about metal props. Is a fixed-pitch metal prop available for an RV-6 with 180 HP? What is the problem with using the same prop as, say, a Cherokee 180 (diameter too large)? What about concerns with operating a wood prop in precip? In general, what are the disadvantages to using a wood prop? Bruce Stobbe RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Re: DUMB ?s
Date: Mar 18, 1997
> 2. Would round-head rivets significantly increase > drag--would it be worth the time savings, i.e. not dimpling, etc.? Dimpling is not a significant portion of the time spent on this airplane. A couple of guys working together can dimple all the wing skins in a couple of evenings. One guy can run along with the Avery squeezer and dimple the skeleton in real short order. You're going to save a few hours and have all those ugly roundies sitting up in the airstream? And you can't begin to guess what all those rivets are going to do to the aircraft performance. Just think: all those little bits of turbulence- producing rivets all over your airplane. Wonder what happens to the stall speed. How about Vne -- think maybe flutter might happen sooner? Granted, the RV doesn't rely on laminar airflow like some of the hot plastic planes do. But you don't want to compound the issue. Not worth it. -Joe -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-551-1072 14190 47th Ave N. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tony Partain" <aviator(at)tseinc.com>
Subject: Re: LYC 0-320 C/S Props
Date: Mar 18, 1997
Ron my RV-4 with an O320 D1A and Hartzell CS prop will climb out @ 2300 fpm on a standard day with gross weight of 1400 lbs This is with an indicated airspeed of 85 mph. Cruise performance on a standard day at 6500 ft with 2200 rpm and 24" mp results a tas of 188 mph . ---------- > From: Ron Caldwell <utah-inter.net!rlcaldwell(at)matronics.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: LYC 0-320 C/S Props > Date: Monday, March 17, 1997 11:32 PM > > > Thanks to both Herman Dierks and John Ammeter for the info on changing out > the 3/8s flange bolts with 7/16s. I was really happy to know that I can go > ahead with my plans to install a Hartzell C/S prop. I live here in the > Rocky Mountains and the extra climb capibility will come in handy. I would > appreciate hearing from anyone who has a 160hp C/S prop. It would be > interesting to see what kind of performance your getting. I suspect its > not as good as a 180hp C/S but I would imagine that at least climb rates > are better than a fixed pitch prop. Thanks for the help. > > Ron Caldwell > RV6A - N655RV > Skinning Fuselage > rlcaldwell@utah-inter.net > > > ---------- > > From: John Ammeter <seanet.com!ammeterj(at)matronics.com> > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: RV-List: LYC 0-320 C/S Props > > Date: Monday, March 17, 1997 9:13 PM > > > > > <rlcaldwell@utah-inter.net> > > > > > >I plan to use my O-320-D3G (160hp) in my Piper Cherokee for my RV6A. I > > >want to install a Hartzell C/S prop but it requires 7/16s flange bolts. > My > > >existing bolts are 3/8s. Does anyone know if my 3/8 flange bolts can be > > >replaced with 7/16s?. > > > > > > No problem. Just order the 7/16" 'nuts' that are in the prop flange. > You > > can spend about $32.00 each from Lycoming or $16.00 from a salvage place. > > It's easy to press off the old 'nuts' and replace them with the new 7/16" > > ones. You may have to file or grind one of them shorter but no big deal. > I > > was planning to do all this to my E2A (which also came from a Cherokee) > but > > then found that the previous owner had replaced the crank with one that > > wasn't equipped with the cross-over tube inside the front of the crank. > :>(( > > > > > > > > Are there any potential problems if you can replace > > >them? If I can't, then I guess I'll have to study using fixed pitch > prop > > >options. I need to figured this issue out soon as I need to order my > > >Finish Kit this week. Thanks in advance for any help. > > > > > >Ron Caldwell > > >RV6A - N655RV Reserved > > >rlcaldwell@utah-inter.utah > > >801-968-2964 > > > > > > > > > > > John Ammeter > > ammeterj(at)seanet.com > > 3233 NE 95th St > > Seattle WA, 98115 USA > > RV-6 N16JA > > First flight August 1990 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 1997
From: Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Re: RV-6 Top Skins
> >Hi, > >I am ready to start the fitting of the rear top fuselage skin, F-675. >The instructions mention two method, backdrilling or tracing the >position of the bulkheard and stringers on the skin and then drilling. > >It would seem that the second method is just asking for trouble. Am >suggestions or comments on which method to use? > >Thanks for the help, >Glenn Gordon > >I did the trace method..drilling the skins and then drilling to skeleton. I had the skeleton walk with the drill in a few place..all towards the web. A friend marked and drill his skeleton the back drilled the skins and got a perfect job. Denny...RV-6 fuselage Lebanon, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phillips Greg <phillig(at)ntsb.gov>
Subject: Orndorff RV-8 videos
Date: Mar 18, 1997
Is there any word on expected date for availability of Orndorff RV-8 wing etc. videos? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 1997
From: Bob Moore <bobmoore(at)wwd.net>
Subject: Re: DUMB ?s
Joe Larson wrote: > > Would round-head rivets significantly increase > > drag--would it be worth the time savings, i.e. not dimpling, etc.? > > You're going to save a few hours and have all those ugly roundies > sitting up in the airstream? Booo--- I'm currently flying a YAK-52 and love everyone of those round head rivets. Now there's an aircraft that's really built!! Bob Moore ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 1997
From: willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills)
Subject: Re: DUMB ?s
Greg, Welcome to the list. You will find that dimpling/c'sinking rivets does not add an appreciable amount of time to construction. On the other hand I find that driving countersunk rivets is a little easier than round heads and of course the finished product sure looks a lot nicer. Mike Wills RV-4 (wings) willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil > >This is my first attempt at xmitting, so please bear with me! >My dumb ?s r: 1. Has anyone attempted a tapered wing configuration on an >RV? > 2. Would round-head rivets significantly increase >drag--would it be worth the time savings, i.e. not dimpling, etc.? > >Check out the "new" Seneca on pg. 67 of FLYING mag. Apr. 97 > >Hope this reaches someone!! > >Greg Hughes--QFA1(at)AOL.COM > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 1997
From: Charles H Fink <CHFINK(at)envc.sandia.gov>
Subject: High Speed Taxi Testing
As promised a while back here are my experiences and recommendations on = high speed taxi testing of the RV-6. This is an excerpt from a article I = wrote for the local EAA Chapter 179. It is long so hit the delete key now = if you are not interested. Groundloop=20 Charles Fink RV-6 There are those that have and those that are going to.=20 I have heard that statement applied to numerous things. In my case insert = ground loop in the blank. Except in my case it was not a complete ground = loop but severe enough loss of directional control to run off the runway = at about a 45 deg. angle, ding the right wing tip and bend the right gear = leg. Lets go back to the beginning. At the time I began taxi tests I had 9 hours of taildragger time 5 of that = was taken about 18 months earlier and the other 4 within a few weeks of = taxi tests. Although my instructor signed me off for solo in the Super Cub = I was not completely comfortable landing it. I thought several hours of = taxing the -6 would bring up my ability and confidence level. After the first 200 feet of taxiing the 6 I could tell it was much easier = to control than the Cub. I thought it was going to be a cinch. I spent a = little over 2 hours over several days in slow speed taxi testing and it = responded very well. I definitely had much more control over the 6 than = the Cub (I also had 2 more hours in the Cub and felt more confident in = it). Then came the time for the high speed testing. I had been doing the slow speed work at 1,100 RPM and below. The airspeed = had barely come off the peg but now it was time to push the envelope. On = the next run I advanced the throttle to 1,300 RPM. Everything went very = well. Estimated speed 25 to 30 MPH and in full control. End of the runway = turn around, throttle to 1,400. Still good, airspeed registered 35+ MPH = still in control. End of the runway turn and 1,500 about mid way things = got a little squirrelly so backed off on the power straightened out and = rolled to the end of the runway just fine. Three more runs at 15 to 1,600 = RPM, airspeed indicating 36 to 43 MPH but not in full directional control. = I was backing off on the throttle before the runs were complete to = reestablish 100% control. I put the plane up and pondered what was going = on. Final analysis I thought I needed more practice. The following Saturday I got the plane out, warmed it up and taxied out to = the unused runway for more testing/practice. Seven runs later I was still = at the 1,600 RPM stage and none too confident. I decided on a couple of = more runs for the day was all I could take. I was scheduled for another = hour in the Cub for Sunday. I figured I would get some advice form Hal = Bergdahl my tail dragger instructor.=20 Same drill, throttle 1,600 begin the roll going straight at first, then I = needed little taps on the rudder, to maintain heading. Near mid way it = began drifting left, I tapped right rudder it swerve right then back to = the left, tapped right rudder again, nose swerved right but the plane was = to left of the center line and the nose began to swerve left again with = more authority so I stepped on the right rudder. At that point I was way = behind the plane, the nose moved right quicker than planed, heavy left = rudder inputs caused large movements left. I was loosing it so I yank the = power off (BIG MISTAKE). The tail moved right with a lot of momentum and = the plane headed for left side of runway at acute angle. I applied full = right rudder and tail began to slow but it was still moving opposite the = applied rudder. I stepped hard on the right brake just before the plane = began to depart the runway. I then applied both brakes in order to stop = the plane as quickly as possible. Just as the plane was coming to a halt = about 50 feet off the runway the nose began to go down. All I could think = about at the time was *DON*T GO OVER* which I repeated several times to = myself. The plane stopped nose down but not on its back. I climbed out, = set the plane back on its tail and surveyed the damage. It didn*t look too = bad, the spinner was broken but the prop was hardly scratched. I didn*t = recall but the engine must have been stopped or turning so slow that the = first contact with the dirt stopped it. The wooden prop was undamaged. The = right wing tip had a ding on the leading edge but easily repairable. At = first glance the gear looked OK but after close inspection with a straight = edge back at the hangar the right gear was found to be slightly bent. What went wrong? Several things; 1 I was forcing the tail to stay on the = runway thinking I had more control in that configuration. WRONG at 30 mph = and above the RV is more stable with the tail up. In this attitude the CG = is almost over the main gear axles and the aerodynamic forces are = sufficient to overcome the frictional forces of the tires. By forcing the = tail wheel down I was inducing an inherently unstable condition. 2 = Although I was nearing flying speed I was nowhere near full power. The = prop thrust pulling forward at full power adds a stabilizing force even = though torque and P factor must be counteracted. 3 I rapidly reduced power = so I lost the stabilizing force of the prop thrust and changed the = dynamics of P factor and torque. Thus I went from an unstable condition to = a VERY unstable condition. What do I recommend?=20 Don*t do high speed taxi test. The RV is a well proven design a first off = the board plane may need more ground testing but not the RV. One taxi run = at a speed of 25 to 30 mph will give you all the information you need. At = those speeds if you have a rigging problem it will be obvious.=20 Never make rapid power changes. This is obvious in WWII high HP aircraft = but the same holds true for a 150 HP RV. After the one moderate speed taxi go to the end of the runway, smoothly = advance the throttle to full power and take off. I was well beyond the = lift off point in my taxi tests before I began to loose control so if I = had taken off rather than attempting the high speed tests the excursion = would have never occurred. Lift the tail as soon as possible. This does several things, as the tail = rises the CG moves closer to the main gear, a more stable position. Also = with the tail up the rudder is in cleaner air and therefore more effective = and visibility of the runway is greatly improved allowing the pilot to = detect the nose drifting off center sooner allowing smaller corrections. = By my keeping the tail wheel on the ground for more control the tail wheel = and rudder were fighting each other for control. If you are not proficient AND current let someone else perform the first = flight. After the runway departure I was very leery about my ability to = control the RV and not wanting to bend it again I had Hal Bergdahl, my = taildragger instructor, make the first flight. After a 45 minute flight he = pronounced it a fine airplane that I would have no trouble flying (Hal had = been instructing me in the Super Cub and was well aquatinted with my = piloting abilities). He gave me his recommended pattern speeds and the = indicated stall speed with a few other tips. He was right. I made the = second flight of my RV without incident and in full control on takeoff and = landing. I now have 94 hours on it with some takeoffs and landings on = narrow strips and some in heavy cross winds. Since my first flight I have = not encountered a marginal control condition although I have made = countless go arounds due to bouncing on landing. Conclusion IMHO high speed taxiing is unnecessary and unproductive in the = RV, DON*T DO IT=21 Charles Fink RV-6 N548CF chfink=40envc.sandia.gov Albuquerque, New Mexico ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 1997
From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Gascolators and Fuel Filters
Dean Spencer wrote: > > > aol.com!RV6junkie(at)matronics.com wrote: > > > > > > Does anybody know of a fuel filter that has -6 or 1/4" NPT fittings. I'm > > going to remove my gascolator but I still want to filter my fuel. > > > > Gary Corde > > RV-6 N211GC - NJ > You might try Summit Racing -an automotive hop-up/racing outfit. They > have a selection of cleanable machined from alum billet inline filters. > They are available with AN flare. I don't have any personal experience > with these (yet) -I've just noticed them in the catalog. Summit also > carries Aeroquip stuff. Don't have the catalog with me or I'd give an > address/#. > > Scott > N4ZWSummimt Racing P.O. Box 909 Akron, Ohio 44309-0909 1-330-630-3030 1-330-630-5333 FAX Ed Cole ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 1997
From: Robert Fritz <75303.1623(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: vortex generators
Hi, Wandering around the airport I keep seeing vortex generators attached to various parts of a wide variety of airplanes. Anybody done any investigation on the placement and efficiency of these bug slicers? And I'm unclear as to just what a vortex generator does. I thought smooth airflow was the goal; I've seen a couple of installations where, with a dozen v.g.'s, the odd numbered ones are aligned at 11 o'clock and the even ones are at 1 o'clock. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-6 Top Skins
From: ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy)
Date: Mar 18, 1997
>I am ready to start the fitting of the rear top fuselage skin, F-675. >The instructions mention two method, backdrilling or tracing the >position of the bulkheard and stringers on the skin and then drilling. > >It would seem that the second method is just asking for trouble. Am >suggestions or comments on which method to use? Hi Glenn. I think backdrilling is by far the easier method. Not only do you know exactly where you are on the bulkhead flanges, but the skin supports the flanges so they don't bend out of position while drilling. You can also see if there is any interference with other items inside the fuselage BEFORE you make the hole. Ed Bundy RV6A N427EM first flight 11/20/96 ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: DUMB ?s
From: ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy)
Date: Mar 18, 1997
>1.Has anyone attempted a tapered wing configuration on an RV? >2. Would round-head rivets significantly increase >drag--would it be worth the time savings, i.e. not dimpling, etc.? > >Check out the "new" Seneca on pg. 67 of FLYING mag. Apr. 97 Hi Greg. Van's tries some tapered "bat" wing tips awhile back and apparently didn't like them too much. I think some builder once tried tapering the wings, but I don't know how that turned out. The flush rivets remove quite a bit of parasitic drag. I remember reading about a test that was done with a warbird (a Spitfire?) Where someone with too much time on their hands glued half of a dried pea onto each external flush rivet to simulate a round rivet and tested before/after cruise speeds. It amounted to something like 22kts if memory serves. The new Seneca... Let's see; max T/O weight = 4750, empty weight of the test aircraft = 3562, that leaves 1188 pound useful. Subtract full fuel at 732 and you have 456 pounds of payload. That's 2 people and weekend baggage. This is a 5-6 seat airplane?! This is almost identical to the payload in an RV! Of course, I didn't have the privilege of paying half a million dollars for my airplane... Ed Bundy RV6A N427EM first flight 11/20/96 ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough)
Date: Mar 18, 1997
Subject: chatter re: DUMB ?s
> 2. Would round-head rivets significantly increase >drag--would it be worth the time savings, i.e. not dimpling, etc.? My memorie is a little vague on the subject but I do recall an article about an experiment performed on a Spitfire after WW2 where some boffin wanted to see the effects of universal rivets as oppososed to c'sunk. It seems that they glued THOUSANDS of split peas to every rivet location on the Spit and flew it. The effect was quite dramatic. Ken RV6A Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 1997
From: RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric)
Subject: Thanks & Congrats!
>>>>As a former Navy Intruder pilot I've really had no interest in general aviation (that I could afford) since leaving the service, and haven't piloted and aircraft for over 15 years. <<<< >>> After a few years of investigation I chose the RV-6.<<< >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< And it has that side by side seating, just like a REAL military aircraft. :-) Eric Henson (former ANGLICO) wings in the jig. Dana Point, Ca ehenson(at)cldwll.attmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough)
Date: Mar 18, 1997
Subject: chatter re: DUMB ?s
> 2. Would round-head rivets significantly increase >drag--would it be worth the time savings, i.e. not dimpling, etc.? My memorie is a little vague on the subject but I do recall an article about an experiment performed on a Spitfire after WW2 where some boffin wanted to see the effects of universal rivets as oppososed to c'sunk. It seems that they glued THOUSANDS of split peas to every rivet location on the Spit and flew it. The effect was quite dramatic. Ken RV6A Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeffrey Davis" <jdavis1(at)ford.com>
Date: Mar 18, 1997
Subject: Re: DUMB ?s
On Mar 18, 11:00am, Bob Moore wrote: > Subject: Re: RV-List: DUMB ?s > > Joe Larson wrote: > > > > Would round-head rivets significantly increase > > > drag--would it be worth the time savings, i.e. not dimpling, etc.? > > > > You're going to save a few hours and have all those ugly roundies > > sitting up in the airstream? My Luscombe has round heads and gets over 100mph out of 65hp Cont.. -- Jeffrey S. Davis Senior Research Engineer Advance Vehicle Technology Ford Motor Company Phone (313)845-5224 Fax (313)845-4781 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 1997
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: High Speed Taxi Testing
Thanks for the article, Charles. I have been trying to find out whether to do it or not. Vaughn tells how and many say don't. Even tho some of the problems would not be there with my 6AQB, I see your point, that the aircraft will fly and doesn't need hi speed taxi. I also now suspect that landing too fast and forcing it on might be a real bummer. Of course, that's dumb all the time! Hal Kempthorne halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. (SJC) Debonair N6134V A zillion RV-6AQ parts in the "hangar" we call home. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rimbold(at)apollo.hp.com (Rob Rimbold)
Date: Mar 18, 1997
Subject: vortex generators
> Wandering around the airport I keep seeing vortex generators attached to > various parts of a wide variety of airplanes. > > Anybody done any investigation on the placement and efficiency of these bug > slicers? As I understand it, they're always just in front of the highest point of the wing. > And I'm unclear as to just what a vortex generator does. I thought > smooth airflow was the goal; I've seen a couple of installations > where, with a dozen v.g.'s, the odd numbered ones are aligned at 11 > o'clock and the even ones are at 1 o'clock. The vortex that they generate will keep the airflow from lifting away from the top of the wing during high angles of attack. This lowers the stall speed. How much it is lowered probably depends on lots of things like the airfoil shape and maybe even the smoothness of the surface. I just joined this list - I figured I'd put in my $0.02. :-) The RV6A kit which I'm going to build with my neighbor should arrive at his house here in FL sometime in the next 6-9 weeks. Any advice, on any topic related to RVs is much appreciated! 'Rob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 1997
From: Dan Boudro <dboudro(at)nmia.com>
Subject: San Antonio
Anybody got any hangar space where I can put the 4 in the San Antonio area? My wife and I will be in the area vacationing Thursday - Sunday. Dan Boudro RV-4 N9167Z Albuquerque, NM dboudro(at)nmia.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 1997
From: willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills)
Subject: Re: vortex generators
Good description in Barnaby Wainfan's column in Kitplanes several months ago. I will try to find which issue and post here tomorrow. Mike Wills RV-4 (wings) willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil > >Hi, > >Wandering around the airport I keep seeing vortex generators attached to various >parts of a wide variety of airplanes. > >Anybody done any investigation on the placement and efficiency of these bug >slicers? > >And I'm unclear as to just what a vortex generator does. I thought smooth >airflow was the goal; I've seen a couple of installations where, with a dozen >v.g.'s, the odd numbered ones are aligned at 11 o'clock and the even ones are at >1 o'clock. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 1997
From: Rob Hatwell <hatters(at)overvne.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Midwest Avionics
Dear Listers A few weeks ago I enquired if anybody new the telephone number or address or email of Midwest Avionics but I did not get one reply. So can anybody on the list help me Thanks -- Rob Hatwell ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 1997
From: Rob Hatwell <hatters(at)overvne.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: High Speed Taxi Testing
In message , Charles H Fink writes Charles, Not intended as a flame. I agree with your conclusions apart from >Lift the tail as soon as possible. This does several things, as the tail rises >the CG moves closer to the main gear, a more stable position. Also with the tail >up the rudder is in cleaner air and therefore more effective and visibility of >the runway is greatly improved allowing the pilot to detect the nose drifting >off center sooner allowing smaller corrections. By my keeping the tail wheel on >the ground for more control the tail wheel and rudder were fighting each other >for control. > IMHO keep the stick hard back and only lift the tail when you have enough speed for the fin and rudder to be effective, because the gyroscopic force of the engine/prop caused by lifting the tail and the normal torque effect will try and send you into the scrub. Most tail draggers I have flown you can get away with doing it as you suggested and I suspect this applies to RVs but there have been more than a few luscombes and austers ground loop on take off because the tail has been lightened up enough to loose tailwheel effectiveness and not enough airspeed over the fin and rudder to transfer the control to aerodynamic forces alone. >Charles Fink RV-6 N548CF >chfink(at)envc.sandia.gov >Albuquerque, New Mexico > -- Rob Hatwell ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 1997
From: Rob Hatwell <hatters(at)overvne.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: vortex generators
In message <970318164717_75303.1623_GHI34-1(at)CompuServe.COM>, Robert Fritz writes > >Hi, > >Wandering around the airport I keep seeing vortex generators attached to various >parts of a wide variety of airplanes. > >Anybody done any investigation on the placement and efficiency of these bug >slicers? > >And I'm unclear as to just what a vortex generator does. I thought smooth >airflow was the goal; Air sticks to the airframe and slows down close to the skin as it passes over it, a bit like the wind gradient effect you get when landing into a strong head wind. This slow air causes drag as it breaks away from the airframe. The vortex generator brakes this layer of air that is close to the skin away from the skin before it slows down too much, therefore less drag. Have a look at the zig zag vortex strips that are on high performance gliders. Well that what I wuz told anyway and I haven't heard any better lies to disprove it yet. -- Rob Hatwell ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: S. Wittmans Paper
From: lm4(at)juno.com (Larry Mac Donald)
Date: Mar 18, 1997
Would anyone know where I could get a copy of Steve Wittmans info on his inverted Olds engine? How about a place near New York state where I might shop for one? Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: D. Fried
From: lm4(at)juno.com (Larry Mac Donald)
Date: Mar 18, 1997
>>Greg, David Fried in Toronto is in the final stages of a taperwing 6. It should be flying early next year. << Does anyone know David Fried's address? Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 1997
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: RV-6 Top Skins
Regarding drilling fuselage top skins: others have commented on whether to back-drill or not, and I won't add to that, but I would like to stress that it is pretty important to take measures to stiffen the bulkheads prior to strapping on the skin. I clamped strips of wood to stiffen only the baggage cpt. bulkhead; the others looked straight enough that I didn't bother to stiffen them. I didn't notice until I had back drilled them to the skin that pulling the skin down had forced the F-607 and especially the F-608 into a pronounced "heart" shape at the top. Not a problem structurally but somewhat dissapointing from a cosmetic standpoint. Randall Henderson, RV-6 randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TchrMellie(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 18, 1997
Subject: For Ron from Mel
Dear Ron, I am sorry that we missed each other last night, but I am hoping that the problem you were having with your server has been remedied and you will be able to get on talk-city tonight. I really enjoy talking to you soooooooo much, too. You are very sweet and terribly romantic which I really love. I cannot begin to tell you how much you make me smile!!!! In fact, it is everytime I think of you!!!!!! Watch your mail, I will try to send you a card or a letter as soon as possible. I would really enjoy getting to know you better. I think you are an awesome guy!!!!! I am looking forward to chatting with you again, I hope tonight. I kinda missed chatting last night. Be good and I will talk to you soon. Melanie :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: vortex generators
Date: Mar 18, 1997
There was just an excellent article in one of the recent kitplanes magazines I believe on the principles behind vorteces, laminar flow, and why golf balls have dimples. I don't remember which magazine it was. Maybe someone can remind me of the issue and I'll scan it in. > ---------- > From: > apollo.hp.com!rimbold(at)matronics.com[SMTP:apollo.hp.com!rimbold(at)matroni > cs.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 1997 11:32 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Cc: kerrjb(at)aol.com > Subject: RV-List: vortex generators > > > > > Wandering around the airport I keep seeing vortex generators > attached to > > various parts of a wide variety of airplanes. > > > > Anybody done any investigation on the placement and efficiency of > these bug > > slicers? > > As I understand it, they're always just in front of the highest point > of the wing. > > > And I'm unclear as to just what a vortex generator does. I thought > > smooth airflow was the goal; I've seen a couple of installations > > where, with a dozen v.g.'s, the odd numbered ones are aligned at 11 > > o'clock and the even ones are at 1 o'clock. > > The vortex that they generate will keep the airflow from lifting away > from the top of the wing during high angles of attack. This lowers > the stall speed. How much it is lowered probably depends on lots of > things like the airfoil shape and maybe even the smoothness of the > surface. > > I just joined this list - I figured I'd put in my $0.02. :-) > > The RV6A kit which I'm going to build with my neighbor should arrive > at his house here in FL sometime in the next 6-9 weeks. Any advice, > on any topic related to RVs is much appreciated! > > 'Rob > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: vortex generators
From: tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com (John T. Craig-Stearman)
Date: Mar 18, 1997
>Anybody done any investigation on the placement and efficiency of >these [vortex generators]? > >And I'm unclear as to just what a vortex generator does. I thought >smooth >airflow was the goal; I've seen a couple of installations where, with >a dozen >v.g.'s, the odd numbered ones are aligned at 11 o'clock and the even >ones are at >1 o'clock. Robert, Uh oh, you've touched a hot button of mine. I'll try to keep from shouting. Before I begin, I have a BS in aeronautical engineering from the Air Force Academy. This means I can generally recognize aero talk, but am by no means an expert. The purpose of vortex generators is to energize the boundary layer of air flow across a body. The vortex generator is a tiny wing placed at an angle of attack to the local velocity, generating a small vortex in the boundary layer. This has the beneficial effect of delaying the point at which flow separation occurs, with its attendant dramatic increase in drag. Placement is determined by detecting the point on an aircraft surface at which separation begins. The VG will be placed slightly upstream of this point. This technique will likely have no beneficial effect for the RV series. First, the RV is a tractor design. It is unlikely that laminar flow exists anywhere on the fuselage, the inboard portion of the wings, or on the tail, because of disturbed flow in the wake of the prop. Second, the wing uses a turbulent flow airfoil section, meaning that the boundary layer is predominantly turbulent anyway. Early, unpredictable flow separation is not a concern for this design. (Besides, first-time builders like me make enough unwanted dimples and poor lap joints to ensure turbulent boundary flow without any extra effort :-). Finally, we come to my soap-box speech (my own purely subjective opinion.) Many design choices perform better on paper than in the real world. Every design choice in aeronautics has both a benefit and a cost. Everything is a trade-off. The aircraft designer tries to weight the benefits in his favor and minimize the cost for the intended purpose of his airplane. When an aircraft design relies heavily on extensive laminar flow to achieve its design objectives, it will pay the price in other areas. High angle of attack (high coefficient of lift) flight is one notable penalty for extensive laminar flow designs. This flight regime includes maneuvering flight, takeoff and landing. Thus, aircraft designs optimized for cruise speed and range pay a price in poor aerobatic performance and long takeoff and landing distances (or heavy, expensive high-lift devices). Compare the aerobatic capabilities and runway requirements of the RV series with your favorite glass pusher design and you will see what I mean. To my way of thinking, expending the large amount of effort required to ensure extensive laminar flow on an airplane, then going back and sticking shark's teeth all over it to fix the high angle of attack characteristics, is a poor approach. In particular, laminar flow is much easier to obtain in theory than in practice. Normal variations in construction, bug deposits, rain, ice accumulations, etc. all conspire to ruin that pretty laminar flow anyway, reducing the expected benefit. I think Van made an excellent design choice for a kit-built airplane expected to perform well in a wide range of flight regimes. Hope that helps. Regards, Tom Craig-Stearman tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com RV-4 installing engine mount ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6ator(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 18, 1997
Subject: Re: High Speed Taxi Testing
I don't recommend high speed taxi-testing RV's for one simple reason - THEY WILL BE AIRBORNE BEFORE YOU KNOW IT. If you are not prepared to go flying, the RV will be, and your whole game plan just changed in about 2 seconds, are you ready for that? If your RV is properly constructed, within c.g. range, and slow speed taxi's without any turning tendancy, it should be ready to fly. If you have no experience with such a machine, then now is not the time to get it. There are plenty of experienced RV pilots who can test fly the bird for you. Good Luck. Bill Mahoney RV-6 N747W ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 1997
From: cfggg <ddebt(at)pathcom.com>
Subject: Re: vortex generators
Vortex generators are an aerodynamic fix. The small blade is angled to the local flow and creates a vortex behind it. This spinning tube of air adds energy to the boundary layer and helps to delay separation. On the Long-eze, the vortilons at the wing leading edge help maintain attached flow on the wing at high angles of attack. On the SeaHawker there are VGs on the fuselage to minimize separation in front of the prop as the fuselage tapers sharply in this location. On the P-51 (sigh) the dorsal fin creates a vortex over the fin at large sideslip angles to maintain rudder effectiveness. etc... There are a number of ways that specialized VG's can be used to stabilize eddies in smooth boundary layers to improve drag. On an aircraft like ours you would probably never achieve it. David Fried ddebt(at)pathcom.com > >Hi, > >Wandering around the airport I keep seeing vortex generators attached to various >parts of a wide variety of airplanes. > >Anybody done any investigation on the placement and efficiency of these bug >slicers? > >And I'm unclear as to just what a vortex generator does. I thought smooth >airflow was the goal; I've seen a couple of installations where, with a dozen >v.g.'s, the odd numbered ones are aligned at 11 o'clock and the even ones are at >1 o'clock. > > David Fried ddebt(at)pathcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 1997
From: cfggg <ddebt(at)pathcom.com>
Subject: Re: D. Fried
> Larry I sent the following note to Greg Hughes off list. I am repeating it here for all. Greg Get a hold of the archive and you will see that most of the postings can be considered Dumb ?s. The Dumbest is the one that doesn't get asked. Round head rivets would increase drag and drastically reduce the resale value of the aircraft. The RV series performs as well as it does because the designer paid close attention to many small details. Flush rivetting was one of the bigger ones. Dimpling is not an unpleasant task or even a lengthy one. It will only take half as long as deburring. I find that it is easier to drive flush rivets. The flush rivet set is much more forgiving of misalignment than the round head. The best way to save time and avoid mangled rivets on this project is to order the quick build kit. The only reason I wouldn't do it myself is the lack of a tapered wing. If you have access to the internet, Matt Dralle (your RV-List host) has an excellent web site that includes a searchable archive of all the RV-List postings, Dumb ?s and all. Search for Fried and/or Taper, you will find all that I posted about the tapered wing I am working on. www.matronics.com If you want to know more about it, drop me a line. David Fried ddebt(at)pathcom.comm >Does anyone know David Fried's address? > >Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com > > > > David Fried ddebt(at)pathcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 1997
From: "Jerzy S.Krasinski" <krasins(at)master.ceat.okstate.edu>
Subject: Re: vortex generators
I think the discussion of the laminar/turbulent flow and associated drag was in one of the recent issues of the Scientific American. Jerzy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 1997
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Chatter: Re: For Ron from Mel
Hi Melanie, > >Dear Ron, ^^^ Uh, you mis-spelled Frank... >I am sorry that we missed each other last night, Me too! >but I am hoping that the >problem you were having with your server has been remedied and you will be >able to get on talk-city tonight. > >I really enjoy talking to you soooooooo much, too. You are very sweet and >terribly romantic which I really love. I cannot begin to tell you how much >you make me smile!!!! In fact, it is everytime I think of you!!!!!! I bet you say that to all the boys. >Watch your mail, I will try to send you a card or a letter as soon as >possible. I would really enjoy getting to know you better. I think you are >an awesome guy!!!!! Wait a minute, you *are* saying it to all the boys... you sent this to the RV-list, a bunch of 600 testosterone-enhanced guys, not just to Ron... Any message for the girls (Hi Cheryl, Hi Louise :) on the list? >I am looking forward to chatting with you again, I hope tonight. I kinda >missed chatting last night. I guess Ron must have been polishing his spar or dimpling his skins or something... come up and see me sometime, you and I could do some rivet-bucking together. >Be good and I will talk to you soon. Looking forward to it. Do you own an RV? Perhaps you could send me a photo of it? Frank ;-} PS: We don't need to tell Ron about this, OK? PPS: What sort of primer do you use? -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- frankv(at)pec.co.nzZ (without the anti-email-spam Z, of course) http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ Frank van der Hulst, Software Engineer, Cardax, PEC(NZ) Ltd, Marton "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass; A good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read". Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!" -------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 1997
From: Frank Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com>
Subject: Re: RV-6 Top Skins
Glenn & Judi wrote: > I am ready to start the fitting of the rear top fuselage skin, F-675. > The instructions mention two method, backdrilling or tracing the > position of the bulkheard and stringers on the skin and then drilling. > > It would seem that the second method is just asking for trouble. Am > suggestions or comments on which method to use? > > Thanks for the help, > Glenn Gordon I drilled the structure w/ 1/16" holess and then back drilled the skin with very good results. I would highly recommend this method. Frank Smidler RV-6, putting on the slide canopy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 1997
From: Frank Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com>
Subject: Re: S. Wittmans Paper
Larry Mac Donald wrote: > > > Would anyone know where I could get a copy of Steve Wittmans > info on his inverted Olds engine? > How about a place near New York state where I might shop for one? > > Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com Aircraft Spruce and Specialty is selling info on his conversion as well as plans to the Tailwind. Frank ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 1997
From: wmills(at)southwind.net (William H. Mills)
Subject: Re: vortex generators
>Craig-Stearman) > >>Anybody done any investigation on the placement and efficiency of >>these [vortex generators]? >> snip---- > >Uh oh, you've touched a hot button of mine. I'll try to keep from >shouting. > >Before I begin, I have a BS in aeronautical engineering from the Air >Force Academy. This means I can generally recognize aero talk, but am by >no means an expert. > > ---much snipped out (though quite a good analysis IMHO--whm) > >Regards, >Tom Craig-Stearman >tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com >RV-4 installing engine mount I have to agree with Tom. I got my BSAE from Wichita State U, not the AF Academy, though I'm sure the education is probably equivalent. And I also agree with Tom regarding what it means (hey Tom, was one of your instructors at the Academy named C. Simon? ...just curious, I work with him). Most of the time, VGs are added to fix problems with separated airflow, either causing such things as control surface snatching or buzz (this is more of a high-speed phenomenon), or in some cases to improve the stall characteristics. There are some outfits that add VGs to an existing TC'd airplane by STC, claiming that it dramatically reduces stall speeds, and (in the case of twins) lowers the minimum-control speed. I know of some flight tests done on such a configurtion, both before and after the mods were done, under very tightly controlled configurations and with a carefully calibrated airspeed and angle-of-attack boom installed to see what benefit there really was...and the conclusion was that, if it improved the airplane's performance at all, it was due to a lightening of the pilot's wallet. Obviously, there's a lot of trial-and-error in some of these installations...the bottom line for RVs is that Van did a great job of taking the reasons for needing VGs out of the designs. Regards... Bill Mills Wichita ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry H. Prado" <jerryprado(at)wa.net>
Subject: Wanted:rv-6a fuselage
Date: Mar 18, 1997
Bought a wing today, have a tail, looking for a 6A fuselage in any state = of completion. West coast preferred. I know it's a long shot, but a life = without questions is a life without answers.=20 Jerry H. Prado jerryprado(at)wa.net (eve)=20 v-jerryp(at)microsoft.com vmail 888-204-5330 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 1997
Subject: Re: prop selection
<19970318.084753.3406.1.BStobbe(at)juno.com>
From: ab6a(at)juno.com (ALLAN E POMEROY)
Stobbe) writes: > >>From the stupid-question-of-the-day bin: I would prefer to go the >180 HP/fixed-pitch prop route but am somewhat scared by my lack of >knowledge of proper care and feeding of wood props. In other words, I >know next to nothing about them compared with knowing slightly more >than nothing about metal props. Is a fixed-pitch metal prop available >for an RV-6 with 180 HP? What is the problem with using the same prop >as, say, a Cherokee 180 (diameter too large)? What about >concerns with operating a wood prop in precip? In general, what are >the >disadvantages to using a wood prop? > >Bruce Stobbe RV-6 Hi Bruce, Since nobody's answered this yet, I'll give it a try. I don't have any experience with wood props, but I will share what I recall reading at one point or another. You might be able to use a wood prop in very light rain at reduced power. Cruise power or anything heavier than very light precip will erode the leading edge. It's for sure not the prop to choose if you are thinking IFR. Another thing the wood prop needs is careful attention to bolt torque. It must be checked very frequently after it's initial installation. If I remember the article correctly, it said to check it after the first 10 minutes of run time, then something like the next 30 minutes and keep increasing the interval. You might have to recheck with seasonal changes in humidity also. A wood prop is also said to be smoother than a metal one. Anybody on the list with a wood prop care to add or comment on what I've said here? I can't believe everyone is running a metal prop out there in RV airspace. Allan Pomeroy CNY AB6A(at)juno.com H S Skeleton (on hold) (fire extinguisher standing by) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kevin lane <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: DUMB ?s
Date: Mar 19, 1997
> You will find that dimpling/c'sinking rivets does not >add an appreciable amount of time to construction. On the other hand I find >that driving countersunk rivets is a little easier than round heads and of >course the finished product sure looks a lot nicer. > you will discover that you spend more time with tasks such as figuring out which little bag has the fasteners, the never ending priming, andbegin to look forward to something repetitive (-: ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 1997
From: lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott)
Subject: Re: For Ron from Mel
aol.com!TchrMellie(at)matronics.com wrote: > > > Dear Ron, > > I am sorry that we missed each other last night, but I am hoping that the > problem you were having with your server has been remedied and you will be > able to get on talk-city tonight. > > I really enjoy talking to you soooooooo much, too. You are very sweet and > terribly romantic which I really love. I cannot begin to tell you how much > you make me smile!!!! In fact, it is everytime I think of you!!!!!! > > Watch your mail, I will try to send you a card or a letter as soon as > possible. I would really enjoy getting to know you better. I think you are > an awesome guy!!!!! > > I am looking forward to chatting with you again, I hope tonight. I kinda > missed chatting last night. > > Be good and I will talk to you soon. > > Melanie :-) Sounds like some one is waiting for you. (SWEETIE!) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernesto Sanchez" <es12043(at)utech.net>
Subject: Re: Buick Motor was (Ivo prop-rv-6)
Date: Mar 18, 1997
I have two motors. One is a Buick all alum 215 and the other is an Olds 215. Both are 61-63's. They are essentially the same motor except the heads are different. The Buick has better heads. The aftermarket still makes allot of parts for the Buick. I planing on a 4000 rpm Max RPM using a Buick 300 crank. Total displacement = 266ci. I'm looking for 200hp. Belted Airpower (702)384-8006 and Northwest Aero Products (206)735-5022 make re-drives for both Buicks and Chevs. Belted Airpower has been using the Buick in a RV-6 for 12 years. They are also working on the Chev V-6 conversion. For the best and complete information on conversions get a subscription to: Contact (newsletter for Alternative motors) 2900 East Weymouth Tucson, AZ 85716-1249 They also have a book. It's great. Lately, it seems like they have RV's in every issue. The information is useful not only for conversions but also in building planes in general. Lots of great ideas. I believe aircraft motors are better and safer but I just can't afford them. With the right modifications, auto motors work O.K. Has anyone thought about using a BRS Parachute system?? A chute that can safely bring the whole plane down. I have talked to them. They would like to build a system for the RV. I think if enough people were interested and called they would get it out sooner. BRS Inc. (612)457-7491 Ernesto Sanchez es12043(at)utech.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 1997
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: chatter re: DUMB ?s
Ken Hitchmough wrote: > > > > > 2. Would round-head rivets significantly > increase > >drag--would it be worth the time savings, i.e. not dimpling, etc.? > > > My memorie is a little vague on the subject but I do recall an article > about an experiment performed on a Spitfire after WW2 where some boffin > wanted to see the effects of universal rivets as oppososed to c'sunk. > It seems that they glued THOUSANDS of split peas to every rivet > location on the Spit and flew it. The effect was quite dramatic. > > Ken RV6A Flying I remember I flew to Merced, CA one year and along the way met up in the air with a guy flying a RV-3, after landing and parking along side him it was probably a couple hours before I realized his RV-3 was riveted with universal rivets, it sure did not seem to hurt his performence. On another subject for Ken Hitchmough, Ken it may be just my mail editor but every post you send is carbon copied and in the header mine shows you are carbon copying the RV-list so each post is sent twice. -- Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 1997
From: Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Gascolators and Fuel Filters
>Gary Corde asked: > >Does anybody know of a fuel filter that has -6 or 1/4" NPT fittings. I'm >going to remove my gascolator but I still want to filter my fuel. > >>------------------------ >>I bought two fuel filters from Airflow Performance (the same folks who >>make aftermarket fuel injection systems, (864) 576-4512, FAX (864) >>576-0201). They are billet aluminum, about 1-5/8" in diameter, about 5" >>long, with AN 816-6-6D fitting at both ends. They use a stainless filter >>rated at 150 microns, and list for $93.00 each. *** snip *** >> >>Mike Kukulski A similar billet type fuel filter (nicely blue anodized) is also available from Earl's Plumbing (the race car plumbers, not household plumbing!) The size even appears to be about the same. The two end caps are threaded (and sealed with O-rings) so the unit can be taken apart for cleaning. Price is closer to $30. It looks very similar to the photo in Vans catalog of the "Fuel Check Valve", which Earls also sells .... It comes in two flavors, a true fuel filter (with a sintered bronze element, I believe), or as a "Fuel Pre-Filter" which has a screen in it that appears to be the same guage (or is it mesh?) as a standard aircraft gascolator. This standard gascolator screen mesh would hardly qualify IMHO as a true fuel filter, only as a strainer for large particles - the units of 'microns' mentioned above just does not compute when you look at the screen in a gascolator ...:^) I'm not sure if the previous postings on this subject were trying to replace a gascolator with something of similar screen guage, or trying to upgrade the straining/filtering to that of an automotive type fuel filter. Personally, I would like to not use a gascolator, and use two of these fuel "pre-filters" in the lines from the tanks to the selector valve. I am hoping that I can fit these in the gap between the wing and the fuselage so that I won't have any serviceable fuel items in the cockpit area ... perhaps they will fit with a couple of right angle fittings and the use of a flexible hose to the selector valve .... ... Gil (bought one from Earls) Alexander RV6A, #20701 ... clearing the shop to make room to put it on it's wheels. ------------------------------------------------------- mailto:gila(at)flash.net Gil Alexander, Los Angeles, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 19, 1997
Subject: Re: prop selection
Allan&Bruce, Ive been flying a wood prop for the life of my airplane and like anything else its got its good points and bad points. First a wood prop is initially cheaper than a metal prop. A wood prop can be designed around your engine and airframe combination. Their are enough people flying RV's with wood props that a person can be steered in the proper direction for prop selection. In other words you only have to buy one prop to get exactly what you want. What your stating about the rain is partially true and some wood props hold up better in rain then others. I find if I pull back to 2300 rpm's, the rain gives my prop no problems and my speed is still quite fast. Ive also found that at 190 mph the rain is as hard on my paint job as the prop. The advantages of a wood prop (a good wood prop) are good climb and cruise. Most fixed pitch metal props dont have the same performance. Also my experience has been the wood prop runs smoother. One other thing to consider with a metal prop such as the sensenich is that it is rpm limited. Should anyone be contemplating a wood prop manufacturor I have 2 recomendations. Ive flown with alot of people and seen a lot of wood props. Aymar Demuth and Bernie Warnakee. Both props have excellent climb and cruise performance. One thing that impressed me about Demuth was that he could pin down exactly what you have in your engine wheather stock or hopped up and design a prop around it the first time. As far as torque I check my prop torque at oil changes or when I have the cowl off for some other reason.(no big deal) Well enough rambling and bable hope this helps. Ryan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 1996
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz>
Subject: Re: BRS (was Buick Motor)
>Has anyone thought about using a BRS Parachute system?? A chute that can >safely bring the whole plane down. I have talked to them. They would like >to build a system for the RV. I think if enough people were interested and >called they would get it out sooner. I thought about a BRS, and discarded the idea for the following reasons: 1. In a wind of 20kts, your groundspeed is going to be almost as fast downwind under a BRS as going upwind in an RV. You also won't be able to control where you're going to land. 2. A BRS able to hold an RV would be very large, and therefore heavy, bulky, and expensive. I think that it would probably reduce an RV to a 1-seater, and probably put it over the max. aerobatic weight too. 3. What's the maximum opening speed of a BRS? (I don't know). How often will you be flying below that speed, and sufficiently high above the ground for the BRS to be useful? 4. Given that most aircraft accidents are due to pilot error (notably running out of fuel), you'd probably be better off putting in a larger fuel tank than a BRS. Just my 2c worth, Frank. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 1997
From: Todd <tmrv6(at)pop.erols.com>
Subject: Re: prop selection
> >I would prefer to go the 180 HP/fixed-pitch prop route but am somewhat >scared by my lack of knowledge of proper care and feeding of wood props. >Bruce Stobbe >RV-6 Bruce, I have an Aymar-Demuth wood prop on my 160 HP RV-6. The only maint. on my wood prop is to check the torque every 25 hours with the oil change. The torque is always within limits(except for about the first 20 hours, which is normal). I understand that some wood props do not fare as well in that area. Performance, 162 mph IAS at 21.5" MP, 182 mph IAS at 24.5" MP. Sorry, I don't have an OAT gauge, so I can't give you TAS. Maybe someday I will stop flying for a moment and install one. I have 135 hours on my prop and have had no problems with it, and in Maryland we change temperatures and humidity hourly. I haven't flown in any heavy precipitation, so I can't comment on that. My prop has the steel/epoxy leading edge protection although I don't think the paint would hold up very well. I chose a wood prop for, economy, simplicity, weight. I hope this helps. Todd tmrv6(at)erols.com RV-6 flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RICKRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 19, 1997
Subject: Re: prop selection
Everything you stated I've found to be true with my Warnke prop. I now only check the bolt torque every oil change, which for me is 25 hours. I've never had any problem with loose bolts. I am also running a 150 hp engine. I know of a local six driver who has a 180 hp engine who started with a well know prop which uses the large laminations. He had a lot of trouble maintaining torque, it would burn the back of the prop. He switched to a Warnke (which uses very thin laminations) after a couple of hundred hours and has had no trouble. Rick McBride RV6 N523JC RV8 80027 RICKRV6(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OrndorffG(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 19, 1997
Subject: Re: Orndorff RV-8 videos
Greg, we are finishing the RV8 wing video up at this point and hope to have it ready by Sun& Fun.....George Orndorff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 1997
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: Gascolators and Fuel Filters
> >Does anybody know of a fuel filter that has -6 or 1/4" NPT fittings. I'm >going to remove my gascolator but I still want to filter my fuel. > >Gary Corde >RV-6 N211GC - NJ Airflow Performance has one. Give Don a call. Bill Bill RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV flying hours. These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough)
Date: Mar 19, 1997
Subject: Double messages
On another subject for Ken Hitchmough, Ken it may be just my mail editor but every post you send is carbon copied and in the header mine shows you are carbon copying the RV-list so each post is sent twice. Thanks Jerry, I guess they still haven't worked out the bugs. I'll watch it and manually address my replies instead of replying directly. On investigation, each message I get from the list has me as the TO: addressee and the list as a TO: address aswell. Can't figure out why. If I reply it goes to the sender (the list) and the other TO: address (the list again). Is anyone else seeing this? Ken ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 1997
From: "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Buick Motor was (Ivo prop-rv-6)
>Belted Airpower has been using >the Buick in a RV-6 for 12 years. Hmmmm....are there any customer completed RV-6's more than 7 or 8 years old...listers? I have seen a Buick powered Swift that has been flying for 13+ years though. Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 1997
From: willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills)
Subject: Re: Buick Motor was (Ivo prop-rv-6)
Ernesto, If an experimenter were shopping for a design to test an alternative engine package in, an RV would probably be the best choice available due to its wide performance envelope. Low stall speed and good short field capability are good insurance. Ballistic chutes came into vogue in the hang gliding (I am a long time hang glider pilot) and ultralight communities, where structural failures occur due to pilot error, extreme weather, design deficiencies, etc... Even in this arena ballistics are not a panacea. There have been a number of failures of ballistic systems. Ballistics do add cost, weight, and possibly a false sense of security. To my knowledge RV's dont have any kind of history with structural problems, so a ballistic would not seem to be called for in this application. Fly your RV with its alternative engine and enjoy it. Fly conservatively, fly high, think about what you will do in case of engine failure, and practice it. Mike Wills RV-4(wings) willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil >Has anyone thought about using a BRS Parachute system?? A chute that can >safely bring the whole plane down. I have talked to them. They would like >to build a system for the RV. I think if enough people were interested and >called they would get it out sooner. > >BRS Inc. >(612)457-7491 > >Ernesto Sanchez >es12043(at)utech.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernesto Sanchez" <es12043(at)utech.net>
Subject: Re: BRS (was Buick Motor)
Date: Mar 19, 1997
BRS related a total weight of 40-50lbs and a system designed for the speed of the RV. You run out of gas over rocky terrain, slow to stall, and pop the chute at 1000' and land hard but not as hard if you didn't have it....... Motor breaks, no where to land, slow and pop the chute. A mid air collision, pop the chute. You have a heart attack. Wife pops the chute and collects the insurance money! Ernesto Sanchez es12043(at)utech.net ---------- > From: Frank van der Hulst <pec.co.nz!frankv(at)matronics.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Re: BRS (was Buick Motor) > Date: Tuesday, March 19, 1996 1:26 AM > > > >Has anyone thought about using a BRS Parachute system?? A chute that can > >safely bring the whole plane down. I have talked to them. They would like > >to build a system for the RV. I think if enough people were interested and > >called they would get it out sooner. > > I thought about a BRS, and discarded the idea for the following reasons: > > 1. In a wind of 20kts, your groundspeed is going to be almost as fast > downwind under a BRS as going upwind in an RV. You also won't be able to > control where you're going to land. > > 2. A BRS able to hold an RV would be very large, and therefore heavy, > bulky, and expensive. I think that it would probably reduce an RV to a > 1-seater, and probably put it over the max. aerobatic weight too. > > 3. What's the maximum opening speed of a BRS? (I don't know). How often > will you be flying below that speed, and sufficiently high above the ground > for the BRS to be useful? > > 4. Given that most aircraft accidents are due to pilot error (notably > running out of fuel), you'd probably be better off putting in a larger fuel > tank than a BRS. > > Just my 2c worth, > > Frank. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernesto Sanchez" <es12043(at)utech.net>
Subject: Re: Buick
Date: Mar 19, 1997
Here is some sources of information on Buick 215's: Contact (Newsletter for Conversions) 2900 Weymouth Tucson, AZ, 85716-1249 This is a good source of Info. Their book is even better! Also, the Buick motor was sold to Rover and still is in use to this day. Search the web for Rover and TR8. There is a web page with great Info and sources of parts but I don't have the address. A good parts supllier is D&D Fabrications (810)798-2491. They sell blocks, heads and all the required goodies. They have experience in building these motors for planes. The owner was a GM engineer. When GM was about to build the Cadilac Northstar motor, a Buick 215 was brought out and used for a source of ideas on how to build the Cadi motor. Another good book is "Tuning Rover V8 Engines" by David Hardcastle. Call Classic Motor books (800)826-6600. I wouldn't pay more than $200 -250 for a core motor and I would plan on re-placing everything. A Buick motor is O.K. with the right mods but an airplane motor is better! Ernesto Sanchez es12043(at)utech.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 1997
From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net>
Subject: Re: For Ron from Mel
aol.com!TchrMellie(at)matronics.com wrote: > > > Dear Ron, > > I am sorry that we missed each other last night, but I am hoping that the > problem you were having with your server has been remedied and you will be > able to get on talk-city tonight. > > I really enjoy talking to you soooooooo much, too. You are very sweet and > terribly romantic which I really love. I cannot begin to tell you how much > you make me smile!!!! In fact, it is everytime I think of you!!!!!! > > Watch your mail, I will try to send you a card or a letter as soon as > possible. I would really enjoy getting to know you better. I think you are > an awesome guy!!!!! > > I am looking forward to chatting with you again, I hope tonight. I kinda > missed chatting last night. > > Be good and I will talk to you soon. > > Melanie :-) We love you to Ron.......... The RV List ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 1997
From: willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills)
Subject: Re: Buick Motor was (Ivo prop-rv-6)
Rob, Correct. Jess Meyers has been flying his Swift behind a 215 Buick and one of his belt redrives for many years. One of his customers has been flying an RV-6 with the 215 Buick for 1 or 2 years now. I believe most of their efforts are now focused on the 4.3L Chevy V6. Mike Wills RV-4(wings) willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil > >>Belted Airpower has been using >>the Buick in a RV-6 for 12 years. > >Hmmmm....are there any customer completed RV-6's more than 7 or 8 years >old...listers? > >I have seen a Buick powered Swift that has been flying for 13+ years though. > >Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 1997
From: Bill Baines <bill(at)sfu.ca>
Subject: Re: T.S.O. or not T.S.O.
Dan, I like your summary of the pros and cons of Technical Standard Orders. I agree that there are lots of non-TSO'd radio examples that work fine. As for some instruments like altimeters and airspeed indicators, I prefer to buy the TSO'd versions because of the minimum performance standards they must meet. (I had an uncomfortable encounter with an inaccurate altimeter in my Champ a number of years ago.) In Canada at least (or perhaps in some regions in Canada) all aircraft parts that are components of a "required" system must be "approved" -- and that means it must have a "type aproval" -- "type approvals" are not only granted to aircraft, but appliances also (i.e. radios and instruments). If the part is of foreign manufacture, and it has been designed to a foreign standard, the foreign standard may be acceptable. Our airworthiness manual chapter 537 list acceptable foreign standards, and the last time I looked, the FAA TSOs were all acceptable. Another means of approval is by the inclusion of the product on the aircraft type certificate. I'm not really clear what that means in the context of an amateur built aircraft. For example, a transponder/encoder must use TSO'd or type approved parts if the aircraft will fly in airspace that requires such equipment (i.e. it is "required" equipment) Is it OK for an amateur builder to use non-tso'd equipment in this case? Probably not, because of the safety issues, and danger to other aircraft if the equipment sends bad data to the SSR. For IFR in amateur built aircraft, there is a short document (an Airworthines Notice, I think) that lists the requirements. Basically it refers to other regulations where minimum equipment lists are specified, and requires that the builder deliver a document to Transport Canada, certifying that the installed systems and equipment perform to the same standards that are required for certified aircraft. Seems to me that buying TSO'd equipment is easier, and at leaast for radios not much more expensive. >The original question here was "instruments", not radios and other such >equipment. For me what came to mind is altimeters, and attitude >indicators. We all know that there is good non-TSO equipment and not so good >non-TSO equipment. Same goes for TSO. While TSO does not necessarily >determine the ongoing quality of a unit, it does establish a minimum >performance standard. For example a non-TSO altimiter has no accuracy >standards other than what the manufacturer decides to use. Therefore, >without test you can't reliably know whether your altimeter will give >you 20 ft. of accuracy throughout the useable temperature/altitude range, or >500'. The TSO unit does have an established accuracy standard which >would be adequate for IFR. Same goes with the gyros. These both are >"Critical" systems for IFR. > >It is interesting to note that nowhere in the TSO process is reliability >addressed, other than by field experienced failure history. Only when >an accident occurs or excess malfunction reports are filed with the FAA >will they even notice reliability/ quality issues. > >BTW, I completly agree about TSO radios, although once again the TSO >does establish minimum perfromance standards. For example >altitude/temp/ vibration, etc. Most of these specs are outside our >normal operating envelope anyhow, For instance we don't often see degredation >due to altitude because we don't go to 40K ft. Temp can be an issue for >instance. For you northerners -20 C is not unlikely. Most LCD's won't >operate below 0 C. > >Once again though ongoing quality is not addressed. > >With respect to 21.303 issues, like TSO, these don't apply to experimentals. > >Dan Morris >Morristec(at)icdc.com Bill Baines | bill(at)sfu.ca Home/Bus: 604-535-2709 | VE7FML Fax/Job: 604-533-0618 | Pager: 604-680-9072 | ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz>
Subject: Re: BRS (was Buick Motor)
> >BRS related a total weight of 40-50lbs and a system designed for the speed >of the RV. OK, much lighter than I thought. My understanding was that the surface area of the chute increases with the square of the weight of the aircraft under it. But can you pop this chute at 200mph and expect it and the aircraft to survive? >You run out of gas over rocky terrain, slow to stall, and pop the chute at >1000' and land hard but not as hard if you didn't have it....... Unless there's a 20kt+ wind, in which case you land a lot harder than if you fly the RV down and choose the best landing site available. >Motor breaks, no where to land, slow and pop the chute. As above. >A mid air collision, pop the chute. I guess in this case the chute gives you an extra option... however, if it's a serious midair you may be too hurt to pop the chute, or the aircraft may be too damaged to survive the opening shock. If it's not serious, the aircraft may still be flyable. >You have a heart attack. Wife pops the chute and collects the insurance >money! Teach Wife to fly... I'd guess it would be cheaper and more fun than buying a BRS. Now 4c worth, Frank. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- frankv(at)pec.co.nzZ (without the anti-email-spam Z, of course) http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/ Frank van der Hulst, Software Engineer, Cardax, PEC(NZ) Ltd, Marton "Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass; A good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read". Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!" -------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 1997
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: RV-6 Top Skins
Glenn wrote: >The instructions mention two method, backdrilling or tracing I sayy, find a tiny person and show them how to use the drill. Mark the framing where you want the person to drill. They might only drill some of the holes which you could then use as index to do the rest. I traced the back of the sheet - measure thrice cut once! But I came real close to messing up. Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Talk to me before you cut into F-6112! halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 1997
From: John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com>
Subject: Re: Double messages
>Is anyone else seeing this? >Ken: It went away for a while and then the double doses returned. (Only one of this one). John Top Phone: (619) 549-3556 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 1997
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Need advice on Squeezer, HVLP Gun
Hi all you builders of most of the single engine aircraft built today! Even tho I will mash only a few rivets, I need a squeezer. I don't have the usual needs as I am building a quick build. Do I want an Avery or Tatco and should I get a 1.5 inch or a 3 inch? Or what? I see a web page for a Lexair HVLP paint gun. $399 on the plastic. Is this an old name? Is it better than Binks or... (They claim they are!) URL is http://www1.usa1.com/~stephenb/2002.html I never see it mentioned - the table saw. I have an old 8 inch Delta. I put in a well used plywood blade with the tiny teeth and it cuts 0.125 almost as easily as it did plywood! When they say a thousand hours, does that include head scratching time? Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Talk to me before you cut into F-6112! halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 1997
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: Buick Motor and Chevy V-6
The Chevy they have is iron block and heads but I've heard it is lighter than the aluminum BOP (Buick) engine. There is an all aluminum version available which is lighter than the IO-360. The Chevy is 262 cu in vs 215 and puts out 220 hp without mods and is available new for aout $1600 for the long block. New is so cheap it seems to me silly to get a junk engine. Now they even have an engine mount for the 6A - made by the folks who make Van's. Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Talk to me before you cut into F-6112! halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC >Correct. Jess Meyers has been flying his Swift behind a 215 Buick and one >of his belt redrives for many years. One of his customers has been flying an >RV-6 with the 215 Buick for 1 or 2 years now. I believe most of their >efforts are now focused on the 4.3L Chevy V6. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Buick Motor was (Ivo prop-rv-6)
> Correct. Jess Meyers has been flying his Swift behind a 215 Buick and one >of his belt redrives for many years. One of his customers has been flying an >RV-6 with the 215 Buick for 1 or 2 years now. I believe most of their >efforts are now focused on the 4.3L Chevy V6. People interested in this should frequent rec.aviation.homebuilt... there's been a fair bit of discussion on auto engines in homebuilts. Bill Phillips, the test pilot for 4.3L Chevy Vortec V6 powered RV-6 (or is it a -6A?) is a regular contributor. Haven't heard much about the Chevy for a while though; I guess this means that it's going just fine. For those who departed r.a.h in the wake of the Paul Lamar flamefests, you'll be glad to come back now. After he publicly accused Bill of 'selling dangerous engines', and Bill fired a lawsuit at him, Mr Lamar has toned down his posts considerably, to the point of being almost undetectable. Frank. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 1997
From: MiDiBu <midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: For Ron from Mel
> >Dear Ron, > >I am sorry that we missed each other last night, but... much RV related mushy stuff deleted >I really enjoy talking to you soooooooo much... Forget it, he's a cat. Now, me, I'm more your type. >Watch your mail, I will try to send you a card or a letter as soon as >possible. I would really enjoy getting to know you better. I think you are >an awesome guy!!!!! > I'm telling you, he's a cat. >Be good and I will talk to you soon. > Oooooooooh, my heart is going pitter-patter!!!! >Melanie :-) > Buster :=)*()~~ "On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog" - unknown ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Need advice on Squeezer, HVLP Gun
From: tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com (John T. Craig-Stearman)
Date: Mar 19, 1997
Kempthorne) writes: >Even tho I will mash only a few rivets, I need a squeezer. I don't have the usual >needs as I am building a quick build. Do I want an Avery or Tatco and should I get a >1.5 inch or a 3 inch? Or what? Hal, I have extensive experience with both the Tatco and the Avery squeezer. I greatly prefer Avery's. It has longer handles which make it easier to squeeze 1/8" rivets. It has stiffer heads which don't spread as much while squeezing. Most helpful, it has quick-change heads. You can buy one handle with two or three heads and cover all your squeezing needs. Two heads should be enough for most jobs. I have a three-inch head drilled for a rivet die (although the next size smaller would probably be better) and a 2 1/2 inch(?) flat head (undrilled) for flush riveting, epecially in tight spaces like the trailing edges of the control surfaces. By the way, I envy your fast-build kit. you'll probably be flying before I will! Regards, Tom Craig-Stearman tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com RV-4 installing engine mount ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 1997
From: Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Electronic Ignition
Has anyone had experience with Electronic ignition on a Lycoming. What are the benifits? the downside? Denny RV-6 Fuselage Lebanon,OR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Re: Need advice on Squeezer, HVLP Gun
Date: Mar 19, 1997
> Even tho I will mash only a few rivets, I need a squeezer. I don't have the > usual needs as I am building a quick build. Do I want an Avery or Tatco and > should I get a 1.5 inch or a 3 inch? Or what? The Avery squeezer is (IMHO) far superior to the Tatco squeezer. I have a 1.5 inch, and it works for *most* of the empennage rivets. A 3-inch yoke would obviously make it to a lot more rivets providing the yoke can still fit into tight places. -Joe -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-551-1072 14190 47th Ave N. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 1997
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Need advice on Squeezer, HVLP Gun
> Hi all you builders of most of the single engine aircraft built today! Damn straight. Did you know that Van's shipped more complete kits last year than the entire US GA production line output (piston singles and twins) for all of 1994? > Do I want an Avery or Tatco and > should I get a 1.5 inch or a 3 inch? Or what? Avery. I'd go for the 1.5 or 2 inch yoke but I know others prefer the larger yokes. Check the archives for lots of talk about which yoke(s) people prefer. > When they say a thousand hours, does that include head scratching time? I wish. Randall Henderson, RV-6 randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 1997
From: "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Need advice on Squeezer, HVLP Gun
> >Even tho I will mash only a few rivets, I need a squeezer. I don't have the >usual needs as I am building a quick build. Do I want an Avery or Tatco and >should I get a 1.5 inch or a 3 inch? Or what? You will need 98% of the same tools as a standard kit builder, unless you can borrow some for "one off" operations. Remember, you will have to perform at least *one* of every operation for the 51% rule compliance. Back to main question...I bought a *new* Tatco squeezer with both a 1.5" and 3" yoke for $149 from 1-800-THE-YARD. The only advantage I can see with the Avery is that you can interchange yokes with a pnuematic squeezer, a nicety QB'ers don't require. >When they say a thousand hours, does that include head scratching time? I only wish . Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bseckstein(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 19, 1997
Subject: Re: Need advice on Squeezer, HVLP Gun
<< I never see it mentioned - the table saw. I have an old 8 inch Delta. I put in a well used plywood blade with the tiny teeth and it cuts 0.125 almost as easily as it did plywood! >> My table saw has cut most of the heavy aluminum cuts so far and I've been getting a bit more daring. A motorized miter box with the carbide cut-off blade I use on cabinetry cuts aluminum just fine.... and accurate too! The blade is no worse for wear. Cut slowly and make sure everything is held down well. Wear eye protection and ear plugs. Aluminum's not that tough. Brian Eckstein ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 1997
From: Robert Fritz <75303.1623(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: High Speed Taxi Testing
First off, my knowledge of high speed taxi testing is based on what I read. I've never tried it and don't intend to after reading Charles Fink's story. Now, as to what I have read, Harvey Plourde has written a book titled The Compleat Taildragger Pilot. He has more than twenty years teaching taildragger and forty years of flying them. Combine that with an engineering degree and the man has the basis for knowing what he's talking about. And in a nutshell, he says the same thing re. high speed taxi testing in a taildragger: don't. "During high speed taxiing, the exposure to the risk of an accident is probably ten times greater than for ordinary takeoff and landing practice." ".....the maneuver is neither fish nor fowl. The pilot is not trying a takeoff (which whould quickly get him away from the dangers surrounding him) nor is he making a landing which would take a relatively short time." " The airplane doesn't really want to stay on the ground because too much power is applied, and the pilot doesn't really want to fly. But if he relaxes just slightly, the tail may descend just a bit thereby creating just enough angle of attack for the bird to fly off. And now, he has a real problem. The airplane is unexpectedly in the air--barely flying--with half or so throttle......If he is capable of landing without mishap from this attitude and altitude, he did not need this practice taxiing in the first place." "the next person to recommend this as a training maneuver should be made to pay the insurance premium on the airplane." Mr. Plourde does a lot more than simply say don't. He goes to great length to explain exactly what the forces are and what thery are doing in each phase of takeoff and landing. If you're the type to read with high-lighter in hand I suspect you'll know more of the mechanics of taildragger flight than some of the newly minted CFI/T's out there. I strongly recommend this be read by even those of you who have a lot of TD time. Can't hurt to know too much about what's happening. You can buy it from Sporty's or directly from Mr. Plourde at 5 Hermsdorf Ave. , Goffstown, NH 03045 And no, I have zero financial interest in this. Bob Fritz ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 1997
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net>
Subject: Plane data sheets
Fellow RVers, With all of the newcomers to the list, it occurs to me that we may have some new, flying RVs. I've sent out this form in the past and have collected 10 or 12 forms. If anyone is interested, fill out the form and send back to the list. Feel free to add anything of interest. I feel sure that many listers will be interested in what you can tell us about your airplane. *********** MODEL: DATE FINISHED: TOTAL TIME: ENGINE: PROP: CANOPY: STARTER: ALTERNATOR: VOLT. REG.: BATTERY: EXHAUST: ELEVATOR TRIM: FLAPS: TIRE PRESSURE: PANEL: LIGHTING: PAINT: INTERIOR: INSURANCE: OTHER (MISC): PERFORMANCE:(fuel burn, rate of climb, cruise rpms/mp/tas, etc.) PROBLEMS: ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 1997
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net>
Subject: Re: prop selection
>I would prefer to go the 180 HP/fixed-pitch prop route but am somewhat >scared by my lack of knowledge of proper care and feeding of wood props. >In other words, I know next to nothing about them compared with knowing >slightly more than nothing about metal props. Is a fixed-pitch metal >prop available for an RV-6 with 180 HP? What is the problem with using >the same prop as, say, a Cherokee 180 (diameter too large)? What about >concerns with operating a wood prop in precip? In general, what are the >disadvantages to using a wood prop? > >Bruce Stobbe >RV-6 Bruce, I used a wood prop on my 150 hp RV-6 for 254 hours and have had the Sensenich on for about 86 hours. Surprisingly, the top speed was the same. My climb is a little better with the Sensenich which is surprising because static with the Sensenich is 2,080 rpms and it was 2230 with the wood prop. I wish the Static were better with the Sensenich but I've got the prop pitched so that I don't exceed the 2600 rpm redline at cruise. Sensenich is working on a FP metal prop for the 180 Lycoming. I don't know the status. They have a web page at http://www.sensenich.com/ The wood prop is a little smoother but does not windmill as well as the heavier metal prop. You do need to check torque, especially when first put on. I like the wood props made out of many laminations such as the Warnke (sometimes slow service), Props Inc. (the one I have) and Performance Propellers. All three props are very pretty. Some RVers feel that you should use a harmonic dampner on wood props to dampen out firing pulses and save wear and tear on the engine. I used one but couldn't really tell the difference with it on or off. This does not mean that it doesn't contribute to more trouble free engine operation. One thing I really believe in is dynamic balancing. I've had both props balanced and it made a very big difference. With the wood prop, I throttled back to 1900 rpms when flying in rain and had no LE damage. I have lost the paint off the tips, though. It takes very little rain to do this. You might check the archives. There has been a lot of discussion on props in the past. Regards, Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)navix.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 1997
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net>
Subject: Re: Need advice on Squeezer, HVLP Gun
> Do I want an Avery or Tatco and should I get a 1.5 inch or a 3 inch? Or what? > >Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Talk to me before you cut into F-6112! Hal, I like the Avery squeezer, best. (Well, actually, I like the pnuematic squeezer that I bought from Avery (used) best.) I have used a Tatco that a friend had just to try it out because I'd never used one. Then, Cpt. Bill showed up with his Glastar kit and an Avery squeezer and I find myself using it more than I thought I would. It's high quality and fast to set up. For your QB kit, I think the Avery would be the way to go. I don't know what you have to squeeze so it's hard to tell which reach would be best. I'd say 1.5" but, if your like me, you'll probably end up with a couple. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)navix.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net>
Subject: Double messages
Date: Mar 19, 1997
I'm recieving doubbble messages also. Mike Comeaux RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Engine mount problem
From: tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com (John T. Craig-Stearman)
Date: Mar 19, 1997
I have been tyring to install the engine mount on my RV-4. I discovered that the distance between the top two bolt holes on Van's engine mount is closer than the plans dimension by .150" (plans call for 23", mount measures 22.850"). The 1/4" tooling holes on my firewall measure right at 23". Van's tech support recommended drilling the mount to the firewall as is. The problem I have with this solution is that it will leave each of the top firewall holes with an "ear" of .025" (or one hole with an ear of .050"), as the edges of the tooling holes are outside the 3/8" I.D. engine mount tubes. Van's tech support says that the joint between the engine mount and the firewall is purely a compression joint, but I am still uncomfortable with making out-of-round holes in a highly stressed area. I have two other suggestions I am considering. One is to pry the top two arms of the engine mount apart far enough to match the tooling holes, then drill and bolt the mount, leaving some bending stress in the mount and some compression stress in the firewall. This idea bothers me, too. The other is to again bolt the mount in place with the top two arms spread, then heat the top two arms with a torch to a dull red, then let it normalize. This should allow the mount to match the firewall in a more or less relaxed position. This idea seems most reasonable to me, although I am still uncomfortable. Any thoughts? Thanks, Tom Craig-Stearman tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 1997
From: lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott)
Subject: Re: Double messages
Ken Hitchmough wrote: > > > > On another subject for Ken Hitchmough, Ken it may be just my mail > editor but every post you send is carbon copied and in the header > mine shows you are carbon copying the RV-list so each post is sent > twice. > > > Thanks Jerry, I guess they still haven't worked out the bugs. I'll > watch it and manually address my replies instead of replying directly. > > On investigation, each message I get from the list has me as the TO: > addressee and the list as a TO: address aswell. Can't figure out why. > If I reply it goes to the sender (the list) and the other TO: address > (the list again). > > Is anyone else seeing this? > > Ken II haven't haven't had had any any problems problems with with double double messages messages, , myself myself. . but but will will keep keep an an eye eye out out for for them them. .Oops! Oops! twice twice as as many many grammar grammar errors errors. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 1997
From: lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott)
Subject: Re: BRS (was Buick Motor)
Ernesto Sanchez wrote: > > > BRS related a total weight of 40-50lbs and a system designed for the speed > of the RV. > > You run out of gas over rocky terrain, slow to stall, and pop the chute at > 1000' and land hard but not as hard if you didn't have it....... > > Motor breaks, no where to land, slow and pop the chute. > > A mid air collision, pop the chute. > > You have a heart attack. Wife pops the chute and collects the insurance > money! > > Ernesto Sanchez > es12043(at)utech.net > > ---------- > > From: Frank van der Hulst <pec.co.nz!frankv(at)matronics.com> > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: RV-List: Re: BRS (was Buick Motor) > > Date: Tuesday, March 19, 1996 1:26 AM > > > > > > >Has anyone thought about using a BRS Parachute system?? A chute that > can > > >safely bring the whole plane down. I have talked to them. They would > like > > >to build a system for the RV. I think if enough people were interested > and > > >called they would get it out sooner. > > > > I thought about a BRS, and discarded the idea for the following reasons: > > > > 1. In a wind of 20kts, your groundspeed is going to be almost as fast > > downwind under a BRS as going upwind in an RV. You also won't be able to > > control where you're going to land. > > > > 2. A BRS able to hold an RV would be very large, and therefore heavy, > > bulky, and expensive. I think that it would probably reduce an RV to a > > 1-seater, and probably put it over the max. aerobatic weight too. > > > > 3. What's the maximum opening speed of a BRS? (I don't know). How often > > will you be flying below that speed, and sufficiently high above the > ground > > for the BRS to be useful? > > > > 4. Given that most aircraft accidents are due to pilot error (notably > > running out of fuel), you'd probably be better off putting in a larger > fuel > > tank than a BRS. > > > > Just my 2c worth, > > > > Frank. > > > > I like the idea, too. Michael Lott ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 1997
From: lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott)
Subject: king kt76c
I contacted bay avionics about the kt76c. They said they could only sell me one if they installed it. Any other one they could sell me, no problem. They just said it was a dealer requirement. I didn't get a price. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: BRS (was Buick Motor)
From: ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy)
Date: Mar 19, 1997
>>BRS related a total weight of 40-50lbs and a system designed for the >speed of the RV. I think this sounds a bit light. Perhaps they "forgot" to include the weight of all the mounting hardware and the bridle. I have a 2-seat ultralight that I train students in and the BRS I have on it weighs about 35 lbs when you include the mounting hardware, the VERY long and thick steel cable, and the cable attach brackets. This is for gross weights of 750lbs @ 80 mph. Just the mounting hardware alone has got to weigh a lot for the loads an RV might generate, and those loads will need extra heavy areas in the airplane to be able to accommodate them. >OK, much lighter than I thought. My understanding was that the surface >area of the chute increases with the square of the weight of the aircraft >under it. But can you pop this chute at 200mph and expect it and the >aircraft to survive? BRS uses a reefing system similar to skydiving parachutes that retards the opening until the load reaches a safe deployment speed. The reefing system (slider) is able to reduce the shock loading, but the size canopy needed to safely descend 1600+ pounds still has to be huge. >>You run out of gas over rocky terrain, slow to stall, and pop the >chute at 1000' and land hard but not as hard if you didn't have it....... Personally I can't find a legitimate excuse for running out of gas. But for the sake of argument, let's use a generic engine failure. As an instructor I train students to always be within gliding distance of an emergency landing site. Sometimes this isn't feasible (especially in the West) when crossing tall solid stuff. However, your exposure to inhospitable terrain can usually be minimized with just small detours. I have found that with the ultralight and it's companion BRS, that I have to instill the fact that the parachute is not a panacea, and has dangers itself. A typical conversation: "So Sparky, what would you do if the engine quits right here?" Sparky: "Pop the chute?" Me: "How about instead we glide to that airstrip right over there?" That may be a bit simplistic, but my experience has been that people treat a ballistic parachute as a cure-all, maybe at the expense of better planning or good judgement. I think parachutes have their place, but I wouldn't want to give up the baggage space or weight to put one on my RV. Hang Gliders and ultralights spurred the growth of parachutes because they were more prone to structural failure before they became more like "real airplanes". A structural failure is VERY uncommon in them today, and IMHO, that is what ballistic parachutes are designed for - structural failure, not running out of gas. RV structural failures are very rare, almost to the point of being a non-worry. (I DID sand out those file marks, didn't I?)... :-) Ed Bundy RV6A N427EM first flight 11/20/96 ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry H. Prado" <jerryprado(at)wa.net>
Subject: GPS gear for trade
Date: Mar 19, 1997
I worked in the GPS field for a while and have a substantial amount of = GPS gear that I would like to trade for misc avionics or radio gear. I = have antennas, receivers and differential mod-boards. All serial numbers = intact and valid.=20 Jerry H. Prado jerryprado(at)wa.net v-jerryp(at)microsoft.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim" <fmico(at)iaxs.net>
Subject: Re: BRS
Date: Mar 19, 1997
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BC34B9.2CBE62C0 I asked Bill Benedict about these things when he attended an RV gathering here in MN several years ago. At the time he pooh-poohed the idea. Since then an outfit in Duluth, producing a glass machine called the Cirrus, has elected to install a BRS as standard equipment in their production machines. These planes are four place (well, four seats) 2900# gross, fixed gear, low wing 160 kt machines powered by Lyc 200hp engines. They will be performing numerous (many dozen) test deployments later this year on a prototype machine. The flying club I'm in has one of these on order and the info on the tests will be available. I'll be happy to pass on the data when it shows up. The application should match up pretty well to the RV given the airframe and airspeed similarities and the higher weight (1800# empty) should test the capacity beyond RV needs. Jim Wittman RV6 - wings JimRV6(at)iaxs.net ------=_NextPart_000_01BC34B9.2CBE62C0

I asked Bill Benedict about these = things when he attended an RV gathering here in MN several years ago. =  At the time he pooh-poohed the idea.  Since then an outfit in = Duluth, producing a glass machine called the Cirrus, has elected to = install a BRS as standard equipment in their production machines. =  These planes are four place (well, four seats) 2900# gross, fixed = gear, low wing 160 kt machines powered by Lyc 200hp engines.  They = will be performing numerous (many dozen) test deployments later this = year on a prototype machine.  The flying club I'm in has one of = these on order and the info on the tests will be available.  I'll = be happy to pass on the data when it shows up.  The application = should match up pretty well to the RV given the airframe and airspeed = similarities and the higher weight (1800# empty) should test the = capacity beyond RV needs.
Jim Wittman
RV6 - = wings
JimRV6(at)iaxs.net

------=_NextPart_000_01BC34B9.2CBE62C0-- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Manifold Pressure Fittings
Date: Mar 19, 1997
From: Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)highfiber.com>
I am installing a manifold pressure sender to feed a RMI MicroMonitor in my RV-4, but can't figure out the best way to attach a line between the sender and the cylinder port. If I use an AN fitting, I have to jury-rig a restrictor in the fitting (soldered shut with a small orifice drilled, or pressing in a rivet with an orifice drilled through the stem). Is it possible to use a primer fitting as a restrictor fitting for manifold pressure, or is the orifice too small? I would think there is a proper part to accomplish this, but it's a mystery to me. For those who are asking, I'd prefer a restrictor fitting of some sort to even out pressure pulses, and to preclude running the cylinder excessively lean if the sender line were to break (over-obsessive fault analysis?) TIA for any inputs. (Installing instruments and engine bits) Mike Kukulski RV-4 N96MK kukulski(at)highfiber.com Albuquerque, NM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net>
Subject: Question on riveting
Date: Mar 19, 1997
I'm riveting the bearing mount on rear horizontal stab. The plans call for AN 470 4 5 rivets. After I install I checked with my avery Red -5 gauge and the hole end fits loosely over rivet end & when I check height it go's right over without touching. Is this correct? Mike Comeaux RV6A Tail ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine mount problem
Date: Mar 19, 1997
From: Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)highfiber.com>
Tom Craig-Stearman wrote: I have been tyring to install the engine mount on my RV-4. I discovered that the distance between the top two bolt holes on Van's engine mount is closer than the plans dimension by .150"... ---------------------------- It seems to me that Van's advice holds the lowest risk - I would hate to alter the engine mount alignment by accident to the point the dynafocal mount does not "focus" correctly on your engine, or the thrust line gets altered. I would live with the slight "ear" on the hole; maybe someone else on the list can comment on possibly drilling out the hole in the firewall/weldment to accept a bushing?? I think this potential problem is a good reason to get your engine mount from Van's prior to jigging up the fuselage and to use the actual engine mount as a drilling guide for the firewall/weldments. Late advice in this case. Good luck with whatever route you take. Mike Kukulski RV-4 N96MK kukulski(at)highfiber.com Albuquerque, NM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 20, 1997
Subject: Newsletter
Sorry to clutter the list with this but the E-mail to Bill was returned. This is to Bill Watson. All others can ignore. Bill, I sent the January 1997 issue of Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing newsletter to 921 Moraga Court, Palo Alto, CA 94303. Please confirm that this is your correct address and I will send you another copy. Jim jamescone(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LesDrag(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 20, 1997
Subject: Re: Ivo prop-rv-6
I'm also interested in hearing more about the Ivo Prop. I wanted a three bladed composite prop for its smoothness. I have a Buick motor 200-210hp, belted reduction going to be used on the RV-6. What is their highest rated RPM?? Price? Warranty?? Ernesto Sanchez es12043(at)utech.net >> Hello Ernesto, The four cylinder four cycle impulse load is so high, that I believe the tip speed will be your limiting factor. That is, tip velocity should be below mach 1. Effeciency is usually obtained with a tip speed around mach .7, or lower. The three blade Magnum prop is rated at 450 hp, or 150 hp per blade. The three blade Magnum ground adjustable prop is $900, plus applicable tax and shipping. The three blade flight adjustable prop is $1960, plus applicable tax and shipping. The is a 30 day money back satisfaction guarentee. Ivo has an excellent reputation for product support. Replacement blades are $220 each. Jim Ayers LesDrag(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net>
Subject: Re: Manifold Pressure Fittings
Mike Kukulski wrote: > > > I am installing a manifold pressure sender to feed a RMI MicroMonitor in > my RV-4, but can't figure out the best way to attach a line between the > sender and the cylinder port. If I use an AN fitting, I have to jury-rig > a restrictor in the fitting (soldered shut with a small orifice drilled, > or pressing in a rivet with an orifice drilled through the stem). Is it > possible to use a primer fitting as a restrictor fitting for manifold > pressure, or is the orifice too small? I would think there is a proper > part to accomplish this, but it's a mystery to me. > > For those who are asking, I'd prefer a restrictor fitting of some sort to > even out pressure pulses, and to preclude running the cylinder > excessively lean if the sender line were to break (over-obsessive fault > analysis?) TIA for any inputs. > > (Installing instruments and engine bits) > > Mike Kukulski > > RV-4 N96MK > kukulski(at)highfiber.com > Albuquerque, NM Mike, I've been thinking about the same problem. My first inclination is to solder the AN fitting closed and drill it out very small at first. As I see it, an extremely small hole may cause the MP reading on the monitor to lag or be slow in responding. Too big a hole causes pulses. Looks like a trial and error experiment. -- Chet Razer crazer(at)egyptian.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net>
Subject: Re: prop selection
Where do you get a wood prop dynamically balanced -- Chet Razer crazer(at)egyptian.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 20, 1997
Subject: Re: Manifold Pressure Fittings
I filled my fitting with silver solder and drilled a #60 hole in it. Works great. Jim Cone jamescone(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 20, 1997
Subject: Re: Engine mount problem
Tom, Oh My God! did you say .150 off ? I would deffinatly scrap the fuse and start from scratch again. Really Tom, throw 4 undersize bushings on the inside of your engine mount mounting holes. Pick these holes up into your firewall. Remove the bushings and bring the holes up to the intended size. Your holes will come out exact. Not trying to make light of your situation but its late if you need more info E-mail me direct. Ryan RV4131RB(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 20, 1997
Subject: Re: Plane data sheets
MODEL: RV-6A DATE FINISHED: Dec. 20, 1996, 1st flight Feb. 14, 1997 TOTAL TIME: 14 hrs ENGINE: Lyc. O-320 E2D modified to 160 hp, Ellison Throttle Body PROP: Sensenich metal 70 X 78 CANOPY: Slider with Fiberglas skirts STARTER: Skytech ALTERNATOR: Pelican 65 Amp. VOLT. REG.: in alternator BATTERY: Concord RG EXHAUST: Vetterman crossover ELEVATOR TRIM: Electric FLAPS: Electric TIRE PRESSURE: 35 PSI PANEL: Full IFR. IFR gyros, electric trun coordinator, G-meter, SW fuel gauges, Sigtronics stereo intercom, Narco MK 12D+ VOR/ILS/COMM, II Morrow 618TCA Loran, Narco AT150 transponder, Rocky Mountain Micro Monitor engnie instrument system and mount for Garmin GPSMap 195. All switches are CB type. I left out the center vertical panel and made a subpanel under the instrument panel for throttle and engine controls and switches. LIGHTING: Interior - post and floods, Exterior - Whelan wing tip combination strobe and nav. Olds landing and taxi lights. PAINT: Sherwin Williams Acrylid acrylic enamel over Sherwin Williams acid wash primer. Beautiful Red, White, and Blue. I painted it myself and it turned out as good as any but the Grand Champions of Oshkosh. INTERIOR: Gray paint and gray velour cloth with gray sheared lamb's wool seating surfaces. Gray carpet. INSURANCE: Avemco, full coverage OTHER (MISC): Rudder trim system, parking brake, cowl flap, center console between seats with storage for stuff and fire extinguisher with a step to make getting in and out easier. Lots of sound proofing. Van's Filtered Air Box. Made my own Fiberglas wing and empennage fairings. Made gear leg fairings out of White Oak covered with Fiberglas. Window degfog system. PERFORMANCE:(fuel burn, rate of climb, cruise rpms/mp/tas, etc.) Rate of climb 1800 fpm, top speed 201 MPH at 2640 RPM (over red line), stall speed 51 MPH. Economy cruise 2200 RPM, fuel burn 4-4.5 GPH at 150 MPH. Normal cruise 2400 RPM, fuel burn 6.5 GPH at 175 MPH. PROBLEMS: Right wing heavy on first flight, fixed by squeezing left aileron trailing edge. Nose gear shimmied very bad on third flight, fixed by tightening nut. Can't get that silly grin off of my face when I fly. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott)
Subject: High Speed Taxi
I only have a couple hundred hours in a Cessna Agtruck, but I never did like to do any high speed taxi's. I never ground looped one (yet), but I came real close. It was never a problem to takeoff or land, even heavily loaded, but for some reason if a takeoff was aborted, it seemed twice as squirrely. Maybe it's a psychological thing. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: NMARSHAL(at)auto.rockwell.com
Date: Mar 20, 1997
Subject: chatter re: DUMB ?s
Subject: Re: RV-List: chatter re: DUMB ?s Date: 18/03/97 22:42 Ken Hitchmough wrote: > > > > > 2. Would round-head rivets significantly > increase > >drag--would it be worth the time savings, i.e. not dimpling, etc.? > > > My memorie is a little vague on the subject but I do recall an article > about an experiment performed on a Spitfire after WW2 where some boffin > wanted to see the effects of universal rivets as oppososed to c'sunk. > It seems that they glued THOUSANDS of split peas to every rivet > location on the Spit and flew it. The effect was quite dramatic. > > Ken RV6A Flying This experiment actually took place in early 1937, when Supermarines stuck split peas, bought from the local grocery, on the head of each external rivet of the hand-built, flush-rivetted Spitfire prototype in order to determine which rivets could be replaced with Universal ones for mass-production, without sacrificing performance. The universal heads reduced the top speed of the aircraft (1000 hp R-R Merlin, 2-blade wood prop, 5800lbs TOW) from 348mph to 326mph (6%). By trial and error, alternately flying and scraping off peas, they determined that flush-rivetting was only really required for the forward 30% of the wing and certain parts of the fuselage. The story is told in 'Spitfire', the autobiography of Jeffrey Quill, its test pilot (published by Arrow/Century); it makes a rivetting read if you can take the time off from building:-) Nigel Marshall Chevreuse, France RV-4 (# 4062) Skinning first wing (with flush rivets) nmarshal(at)auto.rockwell.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott)
Subject: Re: Ivo prop-rv-6
aol.com!LesDrag(at)matronics.com wrote: > > > > > I'm also interested in hearing more about the Ivo Prop. I wanted a three > bladed composite prop for its smoothness. I have a Buick motor 200-210hp, > belted reduction going to be used on the RV-6. What is their highest rated > RPM?? Price? Warranty?? > > Ernesto Sanchez > es12043(at)utech.net > >> > > Hello Ernesto, > > The four cylinder four cycle impulse load is so high, that I believe the tip > speed will be your limiting factor. That is, tip velocity should be below > mach 1. Effeciency is usually obtained with a tip speed around mach .7, or > lower. > > The three blade Magnum prop is rated at 450 hp, or 150 hp per blade. > > The three blade Magnum ground adjustable prop is $900, plus applicable tax > and shipping. > The three blade flight adjustable prop is $1960, plus applicable tax and > shipping. > > The is a 30 day money back satisfaction guarentee. > > Ivo has an excellent reputation for product support. Replacement blades are > $220 each. > > Jim Ayers > LesDrag(at)aol.com What kind of adjustment do you get on either one? Is it electric (flight adjustable one), or manual? What kind of rpm change, etc? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott)
Subject: ballistic chutes
A few times when I was overflying a big city, with no landing spot in sight, I thought about a brs chute. I mean when there is bumper to bumper traffic and no fields. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: Question on riveting
Date: Mar 19, 1997
Nope. Rivet too short before driving. The hole shouldn't fit over the thickest part of the rivet and the gap shouldn't fit over the top. I find that Van's consistently specifies rivets that are too short. Perhaps my technique isn't perfect either but I sometimes use rivets that if anything are a hair too long. That could add a little weight if done indiscriminately though. On really important areas I tend to pay more attention to these measurments than others. Now if all 5 rivets are in and have pretty heads (nice and square, plenty of meat) I'm not sure I'd go drilling it all apart. But then again that's why they call it "Experimental" -Mike > ---------- > From: mcomeaux[SMTP:cmc.net!mcomeaux(at)matronics.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 1997 9:35 PM > To: RV-List > Subject: RV-List: Question on riveting > > > I'm riveting the bearing mount on rear horizontal stab. > The plans call for AN 470 4 5 rivets. After I install I > checked with my avery Red -5 gauge and the hole end > fits loosely over rivet end & when I check height it go's > right over without touching. Is this correct? > > Mike Comeaux > RV6A Tail > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernesto Sanchez" <es12043(at)utech.net>
Subject: Re: BRS (was Buick Motor)
Date: Mar 20, 1997
I like the conversation this has generated. I agree that a ballistic parachute system should not be used as a bandaide for poor planing or as an excuse for poor flying. I just think it would be nice to have an edge in the area of safety in case something goes bad. I would much better glide than to ask Sparky to "Pop the chute?" I don't plan to crash my car but I'm glad I have airbags and all the built in safety features. Ernesto Sanchez es12043(at)utech.net > I have found that with the ultralight and it's companion BRS, that I have >to instill the fact that the parachute is not a panacea, and has dangers >itself. A typical conversation: "So Sparky, what would you do if the > engine quits right here?" Sparky: "Pop the chute?" Me: "How about >instead we glide to that airstrip right over there?" > > That may be a bit simplistic, but my experience has been that people > treat a ballistic parachute as a cure-all, maybe at the expense of better > planning or good judgement. I think parachutes have their place, but I > wouldn't want to give up the baggage space or weight to put one on my RV. > Hang Gliders and ultralights spurred the growth of parachutes because > they were more prone to structural failure before they became more like > "real airplanes". A structural failure is VERY uncommon in them today, > and IMHO, that is what ballistic parachutes are designed for - structural > failure, not running out of gas. RV structural failures are very rare, > almost to the point of being a non-worry. (I DID sand out those file > marks, didn't I?)... :-) > > Ed Bundy RV6A N427EM first flight 11/20/96 > ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernesto Sanchez" <es12043(at)utech.net>
Subject: BRS system
Date: Mar 20, 1997
I was reading "16 Years of the RV-ATOR" especially the accident reports. I was reading about the mistakes the pilots made and the broken airplane parts and thinking that a system like BRS might have given those people a second chance. 23 lives lost out of 1500+ planes built! Flying experimental aircraft is a very dangerous sport and it's important to give the pilots and passengers (usually our family members) the best chance possible. This type of device is not going to make a dangerous pilot better. It might make him worse. But if I screw up or a part breaks, I would like a second chance. I Ernesto Sanchez es12043(at)utech.net ---------- > From: Ernesto Sanchez <utech.net!es12043(at)matronics.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: BRS (was Buick Motor) > Date: Wednesday, March 19, 1997 8:27 AM > > > BRS related a total weight of 40-50lbs and a system designed for the speed > of the RV. > > You run out of gas over rocky terrain, slow to stall, and pop the chute at > 1000' and land hard but not as hard if you didn't have it....... > > Motor breaks, no where to land, slow and pop the chute. > > A mid air collision, pop the chute. > > You have a heart attack. Wife pops the chute and collects the insurance > money! > > Ernesto Sanchez > es12043(at)utech.net > > ---------- > > From: Frank van der Hulst <pec.co.nz!frankv(at)matronics.com> > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: RV-List: Re: BRS (was Buick Motor) > > Date: Tuesday, March 19, 1996 1:26 AM > > > > > > >Has anyone thought about using a BRS Parachute system?? A chute that > can > > >safely bring the whole plane down. I have talked to them. They would > like > > >to build a system for the RV. I think if enough people were interested > and > > >called they would get it out sooner. > > > > I thought about a BRS, and discarded the idea for the following reasons: > > > > 1. In a wind of 20kts, your groundspeed is going to be almost as fast > > downwind under a BRS as going upwind in an RV. You also won't be able to > > control where you're going to land. > > > > 2. A BRS able to hold an RV would be very large, and therefore heavy, > > bulky, and expensive. I think that it would probably reduce an RV to a > > 1-seater, and probably put it over the max. aerobatic weight too. > > > > 3. What's the maximum opening speed of a BRS? (I don't know). How often > > will you be flying below that speed, and sufficiently high above the > ground > > for the BRS to be useful? > > > > 4. Given that most aircraft accidents are due to pilot error (notably > > running out of fuel), you'd probably be better off putting in a larger > fuel > > tank than a BRS. > > > > Just my 2c worth, > > > > Frank. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernesto Sanchez" <es12043(at)utech.net>
Subject: Re: Buick Motor was (Ivo prop-rv-6)
Date: Mar 20, 1997
I stand corrected on the Buick RV-6 installation. The article I read had both the RV-6 installation and the Swift installation. The Swift has 11+ years with the Buick. As to the weight, the Buick weighs the same as an "all aluminum Chev V-6". I like the Chev better but $4500 for a bare block and $3000+ for heads is too much! The cast iron version is about 100lbs more. Ernesto Sanchez es12043(at)utech.net ---------- > From: r.acker <ix.netcom.com!r.acker(at)matronics.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Buick Motor was (Ivo prop-rv-6) > Date: Wednesday, March 19, 1997 7:55 AM > > > >Belted Airpower has been using > >the Buick in a RV-6 for 12 years. > > Hmmmm....are there any customer completed RV-6's more than 7 or 8 years > old...listers? > > I have seen a Buick powered Swift that has been flying for 13+ years though. > > Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: Todd <tmrv6(at)pop.erols.com>
Subject: Re: Engine mount problem
Craig-Stearman) > >I have been tyring to install the engine mount on my RV-4. I discovered >that the distance between the top two bolt holes on Van's engine mount is >closer than the plans dimension by .150" (plans call for 23", mount >measures 22.850"). The 1/4" tooling holes on my firewall measure right >at 23". > > Any thoughts? > >Thanks, >Tom Craig-Stearman >tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com > Tom, I too had the same problem in my RV-6. I called Van's for help back when Van himself was answering tech. calls. Van told me to bolt the mount down to a sturdy structure, except for one of the top holes (obviously). Take a 2x4 and make it fit, no heat. I still have the holes in the floor of my garage to prove it. If the mount doesn't fit flush on the firewall, use washers to close the gap. The reason for the washers is to relieve any preloading. The small error in your mount should be very easy to straighten. I assume that the RV-4 mount is close to that of an RV-6. I hope this helps. Todd tmrv6(at)erols.com RV-6 flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: catbird(at)taylortel.com (TTC Carroll A. Bird)
Subject: Re: king kt76c
Michael C. Lott wrote: > > > I contacted bay avionics about the kt76c. They said they could only > sell me one if they installed it. Any other one they could sell me, no > problem. They just said it was a dealer requirement. I didn't get a > price. I called Van's about this on Wednesday. They can get the KT-76C. Price is $1462.00. Carroll Bird, Buffalo Gap, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: king kt76c
From: wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen)
Date: Mar 20, 1997
Listers: When I bought my KX-125 three years agao, King's policy for experimental aircraft was that the owner could do the installation. You might want to check with another dealer..... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Michael C. Lott) writes: > >I contacted bay avionics about the kt76c. They said they could only >sell me one if they installed it. Any other one they could sell me, no >problem. They just said it was a dealer requirement. I didn't get a >price. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net>
Subject: Prop Governor Cover Plate
I have removed the prop governor adaptor pad from my Lyc 0360 accessory housing and am in need of a cover plate. Anybody have one they would like to get rid of or could you direct me to a supplier. -- Chet Razer crazer(at)egyptian.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: "Yohannes Kayir" <yohann-apar(at)msn.com>
Subject: elevator trim
Building an RV-4, fuselage in the jig and getting ready to order the finishing kit. Please advise on electric vs manual ELEVATOR trim (bought the electric MAC, having second thoughts...). Thanks in advance. Long-time lurker. Yohannes Kayir Pensacola, Fl. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills)
Subject: Re: Plane data sheets
Bob, This is a great idea. On many occasions we see questions posted to the list asking how an RV-X performs with XXXX. It would be terrific if those of you with flying aircraft could send in this info, with performance at a standard altitude corrected to standard conditions. The next great idea would be to figure a way to incorporate this info into the FAQ. If this could not be done, perhaps the info could be sent in with some kind of "key word" in the subject to make the info easily locateable in the archive. Mike Wills RV-4(wings) willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil > >Fellow RVers, > With all of the newcomers to the list, it occurs to me that we may have >some new, flying RVs. I've sent out this form in the past and have >collected 10 or 12 forms. If anyone is interested, fill out the form and >send back to the list. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net>
Subject: Question on riveting
Mike, ... the guage provided by Avery is a measure of a "perfect" rivet. A rivet that the guage slips over may still be within specifications an still count as a 'full strength' rivet. Don't rework rivets that has dimensions that are within spec. The EXACT allowable dimensions are included in the Mil Spec. that can be found at my web site. http://www.flash.net/~gila/ I too find that I can rivet better with -3 rivets that are usually a 0.5 size longer than Vans specified, even though I drill #41 for dimpled holes. I always reccommend that new builders buy 3/32 flush rivets in the -4.5 and -5.5 size (available from Aircraft $pruce) since a rivet that is a little longer can give much more tolerance on the length of the rivet gun burst, making fabrication easier. Our planes may be called "Experimental", but if the rivets don't meet the spec. above, then you have NOT built in the strength that Van designed into his planes. ... hope this helps ... Gil (rivet it right) Alexander RV6A, #20701 > >Nope. Rivet too short before driving. The hole shouldn't fit over the >thickest part of the rivet and the gap shouldn't fit over the top. I >find that Van's consistently specifies rivets that are too short. >Perhaps my technique isn't perfect either but I sometimes use rivets >that if anything are a hair too long. That could add a little weight if >done indiscriminately though. On really important areas I tend to pay >more attention to these measurments than others. Now if all 5 rivets >are in and have pretty heads (nice and square, plenty of meat) I'm not >sure I'd go drilling it all apart. But then again that's why they call >it "Experimental" > >-Mike > >> ---------- >> From: mcomeaux[SMTP:cmc.net!mcomeaux(at)matronics.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 1997 9:35 PM >> To: RV-List >> Subject: RV-List: Question on riveting >> >> >> I'm riveting the bearing mount on rear horizontal stab. >> The plans call for AN 470 4 5 rivets. After I install I >> checked with my avery Red -5 gauge and the hole end >> fits loosely over rivet end & when I check height it go's >> right over without touching. Is this correct? >> >> Mike Comeaux >> RV6A Tail >> > > ------------------------------------------------------- mailto:gila(at)flash.net Gil Alexander, Los Angeles, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: Scott.Fink(at)Microchip.COM (Scott Fink)
Subject: Question on riveting
Michael Angiulo Actually, shouldn't you be using the gold anodized guage? I am not near my garage right now, otherwise I would check, but if it is an AN4704-xx, I think that is right. Scott Fink RV6 Finishing left elevator ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: RV-List: Question on riveting Internet_Exchange Date: 3/19/97 11:27 PM Nope. Rivet too short before driving. The hole shouldn't fit over the thickest part of the rivet and the gap shouldn't fit over the top. I find that Van's consistently specifies rivets that are too short. Perhaps my technique isn't perfect either but I sometimes use rivets that if anything are a hair too long. That could add a little weight if done indiscriminately though. On really important areas I tend to pay more attention to these measurments than others. Now if all 5 rivets are in and have pretty heads (nice and square, plenty of meat) I'm not sure I'd go drilling it all apart. But then again that's why they call it "Experimental" -Mike > ---------- > From: mcomeaux[SMTP:cmc.net!mcomeaux(at)matronics.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 1997 9:35 PM > To: RV-List > Subject: RV-List: Question on riveting > > > I'm riveting the bearing mount on rear horizontal stab. > The plans call for AN 470 4 5 rivets. After I install I > checked with my avery Red -5 gauge and the hole end > fits loosely over rivet end & when I check height it go's > right over without touching. Is this correct? > > Mike Comeaux > RV6A Tail > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: Greg Puckett <71155.2336(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Question on riveting
Mike Wrote: > I'm riveting the bearing mount on rear horizontal stab. > The plans call for AN 470 4 5 rivets. After I install I > checked with my avery Red -5 gauge and the hole end > fits loosely over rivet end & when I check height it go's > right over without touching. Is this correct? > > Mike Comeaux > RV6A Tail > Mike, The Red Gauge is for -5 rivets. The AN470AD4-5 rivet is really a -4 rivet and you should use the gold gauge. The gauge you use is dependant on the diameter of the rivet not the length. The diameter of the rivet is the 4 after the AD in the part # and is in 32nds. ie 4/32" is a 1/8" rivet. The -5 at the end is the length of the rivet in 16ths. Of course for the Avery rivet length gauge you should be using the -4 cutout for the AD4 rivets also. Hope this clears it up. Greg Puckett 80081 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com>
Subject: Re: Manifold Pressure Fittings
>I am installing a manifold pressure sender to feed a RMI MicroMonitor in >my RV-4, but can't figure out the best way to attach a line between the >sender and the cylinder port. If I use an AN fitting, I have to jury-rig >a restrictor in the fitting (soldered shut with a small orifice drilled, >or pressing in a rivet with an orifice drilled through the stem). Is it >possible to use a primer fitting as a restrictor fitting for manifold >pressure, or is the orifice too small? I would think there is a proper >part to accomplish this, but it's a mystery to me. > Mike, I just finished that exact installation on my RV-6A. If anyone can see an error in my installation, please let me know, but here goes: I installed a 45 deg. steel AN flare to pipe fitting in the primer port of the cylinder that manifold pressure is coming off of. To make it a restrictor fitting, I tapped the flare side of the 45 for an AN-3 bolt (10-32 thread). The size of the opening is just about right for the tap. An AN-3 bolt was drilled at .060 through it's whole length. This modified bolt was screwed tightly into the flare side of the fitting. The head of the bolt was then cut off and ground flush. I now had a restrictor fitting. By tapping it on the AN (flare) side of the 45, there is no way for the bolt shank to unscrew and fall into the cylinder. To connect the restrictor fitting to the firewall mounted MAP sensor, 1/4" Aeroquip 303 hose was used. An Aeroquip fitting was installed on the engine side of the hose to attach to the restrictor fitting. The plastic GM MAP sensor from Rocky Mountain Instruments didn't want to easily go into the bare end of the Aeroquip hose. To solve this problem, I slowly and incrementally enlarged the Aeroquip hose on the side of the MAP sensor with a drill bit. Once the hose would fit over the MAP sensor, it was finally secured with a hose clamp. Aeroquip 303 hose is good for up to 3000 psi. The slight modification on the MAP sensor side should be no problem over the long term. If you are installing the GM MAP sensor as supplied by RMI, take a look into getting the proper electrical connector for it. I took my sensor to a local automotive supply house and they were able to order the correct connector. It costs about $12, is waterproof and fits perfectly and securely into the MAP sensor. It appears to be a lot sturdier than just potting the wires in with RTV. I don't have the part number handy, but I forwarded the info to RMI and they said they will publish it. You can give them a call. Hope this helps. Scott Gesele (N506RV) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pmbs(at)probe.att.com
Date: Mar 20, 1997
Original-Cc: probe!pmbs
Subject: Back Riveting Plate....
Anyone have one of Avery's Back Riveting Plates that they no longer need and would like to sell?? Just talked to Avery's....their 1997 Catalog was mailed Monday and should be in your mail box soon.....they very busy bracing for an increase in order volume, and getting ready for Sun 'N Fun!!! Prices did go up a little on some of the items e.g. clecos are now $.35/each (up $.01), Quick Change Yoke Pins went up $0.50, etc. They are manufacturing an Adjustable Set Holder for their Pneumatic Squeezer's also (going, going, gone are the days of putting in and taking out washers)!!! Paul Bilodeau pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com 908-957-6611 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net>
Subject: Re: prop selection
> >Where do you get a wood prop dynamically balanced >-- >Chet Razer >crazer(at)egyptian.net Chet, I'd shop around the bigger FBOs. I was lucky. I ran across a helicopter mechanic who happened to be a RV-6 builder and who became a good friend. He balanced both my wood and metal prop for free. (I did lend him my Croix turbine so he could paint his airplane.) An outfit in Lincoln, NE charges around $150, I believe. For anyone living near Las Vegas, NV, you can contact Bob Swanson at 702-450-5815. This is his new number. He's moving to a new house in the next several days so you might wait untill after the weekend to try & get ahold of him. I think he said he was planning on charging around $75.00 for balance. Might do it cheaper for a fellow RVer. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)navix.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 20, 1997
Subject: Re: Engine mount problem
<< I have been tyring to install the engine mount on my RV-4. I discovered that the distance between the top two bolt holes on Van's engine mount is closer than the plans dimension by .150" (plans call for 23", mount measures 22.850"). The 1/4" tooling holes on my firewall measure right at 23". -snip- I have two other suggestions I am considering. One is to pry the top two arms of the engine mount apart far enough to match the tooling holes, then drill and bolt the mount, leaving some bending stress in the mount and some compression stress in the firewall. This idea bothers me, too. The other is to again bolt the mount in place with the top two arms spread, then heat the top two arms with a torch to a dull red, then let it normalize. This should allow the mount to match the firewall in a more or less relaxed position. This idea seems most reasonable to me, although I am still uncomfortable. Any thoughts? Thanks, Tom Craig-Stearman tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com >> Tom: After trying what you are about to try (in my case the mount was slightly twisted), I'll suggest that you'll need to heat much more than the arms of the mount- maybe the top half, or more. Remember, the mount was designed to distribute loads to other members. This is probably the best way out, unless you would go with the tech's answer, to just drill the holes where the mount wants them. Your problem is a very good reason to have the mount at hand when you drill the holes for its attach points, but that is fairly obvious now. Please post how you solve this problem. Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 20, 1997
Subject: Re: High Speed Taxi Testing and takeoff technique
<< First off, my knowledge of high speed taxi testing is based on what I read. I've never tried it and don't intend to after reading Charles Fink's story. Now, as to what I have read, Harvey Plourde has written a book titled The Compleat Taildragger Pilot. He has more than twenty years teaching taildragger and forty years of flying them. Combine that with an engineering degree and the man has the basis for knowing what he's talking about. And in a nutshell, he says the same thing re. high speed taxi testing in a taildragger: don't. "During high speed taxiing, the exposure to the risk of an accident is probably ten times greater than for ordinary takeoff and landing practice." snip- I strongly recommend this be read by even those of you who have a lot of TD time. Can't hurt to know too much about what's happening. You can buy it from Sporty's or directly from Mr. Plourde at 5 Hermsdorf Ave. , Goffstown, NH 03045 And no, I have zero financial interest in this. Bob Fritz >> Hi All: Please don't think I'm getting on a soapbox, BUT... I agree with the "slower" fast taxi method. I owned and operated a Tailwheel only (J-3, Champ, C-140) flight school until I ran out of money, about 4 years. My inadequate business skills aside, I did learn a bunch about flying these creatures, some of which I'll try to pass on: I read the book mentioned above. It's a good, if somewhat incomplete. A better book would be Langewishe's "Stick and Rudder". Get this one, or better yet, get both. If you think you know a bunch about flying, I still think S & R will give you some information. Aside from all this, one question: Why do some people raise, then lower, the tail of their taildraggers during the takeoff run? I taught folks to raise the tail about 4-6", and keep it there. The airplane will leave the ground at (usually) very close to the proper climb speed, and a pitch adjustment after liftoff will hold that speed. We all know the prop has a large gyroscopic force, so why aggravate the thing by moving the tail up and down? I've found students swerved a lot less if the pitch was adjusted to a bit less (more nose down) than the three point attitude, and held there. Differing opinions/experiences are welcome. I don't claim to know it all, or even half, but this was a consistent event when doing transition training. Of course, the adverse yaw from the older birds was another force to be conquered, but that belongs in chapter two.... Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 20, 1997
Subject: Re: prop selection
<< I have an Aymar-Demuth wood prop on my 160 HP RV-6. The only maint. on my wood prop is to check the torque every 25 hours with the oil change. SNIP I chose a wood prop for, economy, simplicity, weight. I hope this helps. Todd tmrv6(at)erols.com RV-6 flying >> Also, Mike (@Aymar-Demuth) GUARANTEES his props. You don't like it? Send it back for a refund! That's pretty good. I had one of these on the -4 I had, and it did exactly what he said it would. Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Question on riveting
>I'm riveting the bearing mount on rear horizontal stab. >The plans call for AN 470 4 5 rivets. After I install I >checked with my avery Red -5 gauge and the hole end >fits loosely over rivet end & when I check height it go's >right over without touching. Is this correct? No... Firstly, you should be using the gold -4 gauge. The gauge size depends on the diameter of the rivet, not its total length. Secondly, I found that the length (can't remember what it was) called for in the plans (RV-6) was too short. I believed the plans and drove the first rivet, then had to drill it out again because the shop head was too small. It was very depressing having to drill out the first actual, real rivet I drove! But no big deal in the end. Check out http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/bunny.htm for my various trials & tribulations, and lots of RV-building tips & traps. Frank. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills)
Subject: Re: Back Riveting Plate....
Dont know about your part of the country, but here in San Diego there are a couple of metal suppliers that sell scrap steel for $0.50 per pound. $2.00 or $3.00 and 15 minutes on a belt sander and scotchbrite makes a pretty decent bucking bar, available in lots of shapes and sizes. Mike Wills RV-4 (wings) willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil > >Anyone have one of Avery's Back Riveting Plates that they no longer >need and would like to sell?? > >Just talked to Avery's....their 1997 Catalog was mailed Monday >and should be in your mail box soon.....they very busy bracing >for an increase in order volume, and getting ready for Sun 'N Fun!!! > >Prices did go up a little on some of the items e.g. clecos are now >$.35/each (up $.01), Quick Change Yoke Pins went up $0.50, etc. >They are manufacturing an Adjustable Set Holder for their Pneumatic >Squeezer's also (going, going, gone are the days of putting in and >taking out washers)!!! > >Paul Bilodeau >pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com >908-957-6611 > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DCHamilton(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 20, 1997
Subject: Flush rivets
Setting aside aerodynamic factors, flush rivets look worlds better than universal head ones. If you ever have to re-paint or touch-up paint, it is easier to get the paint off of the flush rivet and surrounding area. Don't try to avoid dimpling the skins by using the impact of the rivet itself to do the dimpling while the rivet is being driven. It doesn't work. -- David Hamilton ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: Craig Hiers <CRAIG-RV-4.@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: elevator trim
Yohannes Kayir wrote: > > > Building an RV-4, fuselage in the jig and getting ready to order the finishing > kit. Please advise on electric vs manual ELEVATOR > trim (bought the electric MAC, having second thoughts...). Thanks in advance. > > Long-time lurker. > > Yohannes Kayir > Pensacola, Fl. Yohannes I put manual trim in my 4. I will test fly the plane and then make a decision on the electric trim. It may take some time to drill out all of the rivets to put in the electric trim, but it can be done. P.S. I flew on a P.B.A. airlines EMB 110 about 10 years ago, I got off the plane in Tallahassee in the AM. the plane went to Jacksonville that afternoon and on takeoff out of JAX the plane suffered run-away trim, the plane crashed before the pilot could react and killed all on board. If this had happend one takeoff earlier I would not be here. I think about this a lot. Craig Hiers RV-4 N143CH Tallahassee,FL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Shelby1138(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 20, 1997
Subject: Dick Waters Engines
Anyone had any dealings with Dick Waters in Orlando. Talked to him today about 0360 engines he says are built up for experimental aircraft. He is advertising in Trade-a-Plane. All steel parts are yellow tagged and the cranks, camshafts, and crankcases are first run. not much other history. I am considering having him also look at a used engine I am considering. Anyone able to share positive or negative experiences with me would be helpful. Shelby in Nashville. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com>
Subject: Deft Primer Follow-up
I advised Danny White that I had sic'd you guys on him for small quantities of Deft. He reminded me that he also has a home page http://www.gate.net/~duba/home2.htm John Top Phone: (619) 549-3556 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "vern" <vern(at)ldd.net>
Subject: European visit
Date: Mar 20, 1997
Hi, I am planning a little driving vacation trip to England, France, Germany, and possibly Switzerland and or Italy. I would be interested in meeting any RV builders that speak English if we could work out a time. I will be over there from April 23 till April 29. If anyone would be gracious enough to let a fellow builder look at your project I sure would be appreciative. You may contact me directly to keep from clogging up the list. Thanks Vern Lemasters Lemasters Electronics 1008 N. Radcliffe Marion, IL 62959 618-993-8689 fax 618-997-5726 e-mail vern(at)ldd.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com>
Subject: Re: Need advice on Squeezer, HVLP Gun
> >Hi all you builders of most of the single engine aircraft built today! > >Even tho I will mash only a few rivets, I need a squeezer. The Avery wins hands down. The 1 1/2" yoke will fit in places none of the others will and I have found the Longeron yoke sold by Cleaveland or Avery very useful. If you can afford 2 yokes that is a winning combination. > >I see a web page for a Lexair HVLP paint gun. $399 on the plastic. Is >this an >old name? Is it better than Binks or... I love my Binks gravity feed gun. I got it for ~$260. >I never see it mentioned - the table saw. I have an old 8 inch Delta. I >put in >a well used plywood blade with the tiny teeth and it cuts 0.125 almost as >easily >as it did plywood! I use a 10" miter saw with a carbide blade to cut up to 1/4" I recently bought a "non-ferrous metal" blade for it (also fits my table saw) but the wood blade cuts almost as well. John Top #5372 (619) 549-3556 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tim Etherington <tjetheri@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: elevator trim
Date: Mar 20, 1997
Yohannes Kayir Pensacola, Fl. Asked about elevator trim. I installed electric trim and it is a neat = installation but the amount of travel is reduced. Perhaps Tim Lewis can = chime in and tell us what he found out or if someone is flying with the = trim and can tell us if it makes a difference. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: mikeb(at)lsil.com (Mike Brogley)
Subject: Re: Gascolators and Fuel Filters
> > aol.com!RV6junkie(at)matronics.com wrote: > > > > > > Does anybody know of a fuel filter that has -6 or 1/4" NPT fittings. I'm > > going to remove my gascolator but I still want to filter my fuel. > > > > Gary Corde > > RV-6 N211GC - NJ > You might try Summit Racing -an automotive hop-up/racing outfit. They > Scott > N4ZW > You can order a Summit Racing catalog online at www.summitracing.com. -- Mike Brogley RV-8 sn80241 emp (still) San Jose, CA USA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steen8751A(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 20, 1997
Subject: Re: S. Wittmans Paper
I have his plans. I ordered them from the EAA mag, Sport Aviation. It is in the small classified adds at the back of each issue. If you can't get them, send me a note.. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 1997
From: Finn Lassen <finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Heavy right wing?
aol.com!JamesCone(at)matronics.com wrote: > PROBLEMS: Right wing heavy on first flight, fixed by squeezing left >aileron trailing edge. Please explain. I'm missing the point here. How does that handle a heavy right wing? Congratulations on what sounds like a first class plane! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Back Riveting Plate....
probe.att.com!pmbs(at)matronics.com wrote: > > > Anyone have one of Avery's Back Riveting Plates that they no longer > need and would like to sell?? > > Just talked to Avery's....their 1997 Catalog was mailed Monday > and should be in your mail box soon.....they very busy bracing > for an increase in order volume, and getting ready for Sun 'N Fun!!! > > Prices did go up a little on some of the items e.g. clecos are now > $.35/each (up $.01), Quick Change Yoke Pins went up $0.50, etc. > They are manufacturing an Adjustable Set Holder for their Pneumatic > Squeezer's also (going, going, gone are the days of putting in and > taking out washers)!!! > > Paul Bilodeau > pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com > 908-957-6611 Paul, Your local metal dealer will cut you a plate to size relatively cheap. Try them first. Ed Cole ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N595CM(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 20, 1997
Subject: Re: prop selection
I have 125 hours on my Amar Demuth prop It is guaranteed to perform to your satisfaction and mine did EXACTLY what Mike said it would. They claim it will fly in IFR but I would be a little skeptacle. I have flown in rain a little, I reduced power to around 2100 rpm while in rain just to be sure. I have flown for years with different wood props and I have never had a problem. I chose a wood prop over a fixed pitch metal prop. I have no doubt that I am getting better performance with it. It is a little more noisey although. My next prop if I ever need one will probably be another Aymar Demuth. A bit pricey but this is one time I think you get what you pay for. Chris May RV-4 N595CM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)a.crl.com>
Subject: Re: High Speed Taxi Testing
>Now, as to what I have read, Harvey Plourde has written a book titled The >Compleat Taildragger Pilot. He has more than twenty years teaching >taildragger >and forty years of flying them. Combine that with an engineering degree >and the man has the basis for knowing what he's talking about... I send that recommendation. I got better instruction about wheel landings from Harvey Plourde's book than I ever did from my CFI. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 installing electrical and avionics ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RFierb6707(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 20, 1997
Subject: Rivet Guns
Need to buy a rivet gun-Any suggestions on brands,new or rebuilt,2x or 3x and possible suppliers? Thanks Rob Fierberg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net>
Subject: Rivet Question
Date: Mar 20, 1997
Thanks everyone for your advice on riveting. This group by far is the greatest for help & advice. Mike Comeaux ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: randy(at)tr.reno.nv.us (Randy)
Subject: lyc 0-360 core
to all, here's the deal,Just like many others I'm looking for an 0-360 A1A core it has to be a first run engine with varifiable logs. no prop strikes, no junk! I am not interested in assessories. Please send all info to Darrell at 76765.533(at)compuserve.com. I really would appreciate some good replies, this is a cash deal. Remember, I'm not buying a brand new engine just a first rate core for a reasonable price. thanx for the info. Randy RV-6 wings ********* Randy ********* ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: Craig Hiers <CRAIG-RV-4.@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Dick Waters Engines
aol.com!Shelby1138(at)matronics.com wrote: > > > Anyone had any dealings with Dick Waters in Orlando. Talked to him today > about 0360 engines he says are built up for experimental aircraft. He is > advertising in Trade-a-Plane. All steel parts are yellow tagged and the > cranks, camshafts, and crankcases are first run. not much other history. > > I am considering having him also look at a used engine I am considering. > Anyone able to share positive or negative experiences with me would be > helpful. > > Shelby in Nashville. Shelby Stay as far away from this guy as you can, he and his motors are bad news. I bet I'm not the only one who tells you this. Craig Hiers RV-4 N143CH Tallahassee,FL ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Manifold Pressure Fittings
From: ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy)
Date: Mar 20, 1997
> but can't figure out the best way to attach a line between the >sender and the cylinder port. If I use an AN fitting, I have to >jury-rig a restrictor in the fitting. Is it >possible to use a primer fitting as a restrictor fitting for manifold >pressure, or is the orifice too small? I'd prefer a restrictor fitting >of some sort to >even out pressure pulses, and to preclude running the cylinder >excessively lean if the sender line were to break (over-obsessive >fault analysis?) TIA for any inputs. Hi Mike. On the advise of an IA, I just installed a regular #2 AN fitting for my MAP line. He said that the size of the fitting is plenty small enough, and if the line breaks would not cause undue leaning of the cylinder before a repair could be effected. i.e., land at the nearest opportunity and crimp the copper line shut. A question for you, or anyone else, can someone give me a part # and source for the actual primer fittings? I can't seem to locate them. Thanks, Ed Bundy RV6A N427EM first flight 11/20/96 ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PhilipR920(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 20, 1997
Subject: Plane data sheets
Jim, I read with great interest your data sheet as my project parallels yours in many aspects. I am incorporating the defog and rudder trim systems as described in the Newsletter except I am using a vernier trim cable to bias the springs in the trim system. I''d like to know how you mounted the Garman 195. I've been thinking about making a recess in the panel so that the face of the 195 would be flush with the panel, but don't know if this is practical as I have no experience with the 195. Phil Rogerson 6AQ-60057 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: Richard Jorgensen <rpjorgen(at)wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Re: High Speed Taxi Testing and takeoff technique
Just one of many reasons everyone should read Langewiesche's "Stick and Rudder" ***************************************************************************** rick jorgensen email address:rpjorgen(at)wheel.ucdavis.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: wmills(at)southwind.net (William H. Mills)
Subject: Re: Performance Equations
Listers, Russ Nichols discovered a little error in the Density Altitude equation I'd posted earlier, in that it always was about 11 feet high (checked by taking a known elevation and using 29.92 in. Hg; should result in PALT = ELEV). Below is the original equation: > > PALT = ELEV + 27954.29 - (933.94 * INHG) > The corrected equation follows; it doesn't have the 11 foot error. PALT = ELEV + 27943.34 - (933.94 * INHG) Sorry for the error, my screwup. Bill Mills STILL RV-8 Dreaming A36 (Flying Club) Flying Wichita ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry H. Prado" <jerryprado(at)wa.net>
Subject: GPS Antennas
Date: Mar 20, 1997
The response for the thread I started on trading GPS gear has been = overwhelming. All gear is spoken for and my instrument panel is very = happy. Thanks!=20 For all of you that own hand-held GPS receivers requiring high gain, = amplified (active) antennas that can be easily water proofed as well as = other neat GPS items at non-aviation prices, please refer to : http://home.cdsnet.net/~purple/projects/g45contr/4sale.htm For $65US, you can purchase a 2.5" diameter antenna which is already = water resistent and guaranteed to out perform the factory optional = antennas.=20 For info on how to waterproof and mount this antenna on an airplane = turtledeck : (courtesy of Iso Tamori of Fujitsu, who also makes NICE GPS = antennas), contact me at jerryprado(at)wa.net.=20 Jerry Prado=20 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 21, 1997
Subject: Re: Heavy right wing?
I got this advice to squeeze the trailing edge of the light aileron out of the RVator. I don't know the full explanation of why it works, but it does. Ask Bill Benedict. Jim Cone jamescone(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Bergh" <dbergh(at)cyberhighway.net>
Subject: poster
Date: Mar 21, 1997
Does anybody know of any place to get a large color poster of an RV for my workshop wall to show visitors what this thing will look like when finished. The line drawing sent with the plans just doesn't do justice to these beautiful planes! Dave Bergh RV 6 Emp. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry H. Prado" <jerryprado(at)wa.net>
Subject: Electric elevator trim
Date: Mar 20, 1997
My tail was built with manual trim. I don't see why installing electric = trim after the fact can't be accomplished by putting the servo somewhere = other than in the tail!? It could be argued that a stronger servo would = be required to offset resistence from the additional linkage or cable = length. Other than that, anyone see a problem?=20 Jerry Prado RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: Dick Waters Engines
> >Anyone had any dealings with Dick Waters in Orlando. Talked to him today >about 0360 engines he says are built up for experimental aircraft. He is >advertising in Trade-a-Plane. All steel parts are yellow tagged and the >cranks, camshafts, and crankcases are first run. not much other history. > >I am considering having him also look at a used engine I am considering. > Anyone able to share positive or negative experiences with me would be >helpful. > >Shelby in Nashville. There has been more than one RV builder who has wished he had never done business with Waters. Nothing else needs to be said. Bill RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV flying hours. These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LesDrag(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 21, 1997
Subject: Re: Ivo prop-rv-6
(Snip) What kind of adjustment do you get on either one? Is it electric (flight adjustable one), or manual? What kind of rpm change, etc? >> Hi All, I'm running a 68" diameter two blade electric flight adjustable Ivoprop on my LOM engine. I have 140 hp with the supercharger engaged; 35" MP and 2700 RPM. I have set the low pitch stop so I get 2850 RPM at 80 mph ias for the inial climb. In cruise at 9,500, with full throttle without the supercharger engaged, full pitch gives me 2380 RPM. Both the ground adjustable and the flight adjustable prop have a 30" to 90" pitch range. Jim Ayers LesDrag(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kevin lane <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Engine mount problem
Date: Mar 21, 1997
>It seems to me that Van's advice holds the lowest risk - I would hate to >alter the engine mount alignment by accident to the point the dynafocal >mount does not "focus" correctly on your engine, or the thrust line gets >altered. FWIW,my engine mount was a bit off when held up to the fuselage without the engine attached. I heeded Frank Justice's advice that a 330lb engine is going to flex that mount more than the slight (in my case) pressure needed to align the holes. I doubt the difference is even measurable at the dynafocal mount, not to mention that the engine rides in flexing rubber. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 1997
From: Elon <elon.o(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: S. Wittmans Paper
Larry Mac Donald wrote: Would anyone know where I could get a copy of Steve Wittmans info on his inverted Olds engine? How about a place near New York state where I might shop for one? ---------------------------------- Larry: Aircraft Spruce advertises plans for Steve's Tailwind. Their add in SA (pg 141 this month) also indicates V-8 engine conversions available. Give them a call (800/824-1930). The EAA library may have reprints for sale. Elon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 1997
From: Elon <elon.o(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Buick
Ernesto Sanchez wrote: As to the weight, the Buick weighs the same as an "all aluminum Chev V-6". I like the Chev better but $4500 for a bare block and $3000+ for heads is too much! ----------------------------- Ernesto: Chev p/n 14044802, aluminum cyl head, V-6 lists for $402.38 ea. Chev p/n 10134394, Aluminum cyl head, V-6 lists for $1,350 ea. The -394 head is patterned after the splayed valve big block and has huge ports. It is totaly unsuited for aircraft use. Other manufactures, Brodix, Dart, etc sell heads for aprox $1k per pair. The aluminum Buick/Olds blocks are great motors. However, the mains walk around quite a bit and I would suggest looking into a set of ARP, custom, main bearing studs. I believe Rover bought all of the Buick tooling for its aluminum V-8. Spare parts should be available but might be meteric dims. Elon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 21, 1997
Subject: Re: Manifold Pressure Fittings
<< A question for you, or anyone else, can someone give me a part # and source for the actual primer fittings? I can't seem to locate them. >> Wicks has them. They consist of three pieces each. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RBusick505(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 21, 1997
Subject: Re: BRS system
My concern with the tone of this message is that big brother FAA should mandate a BRS for all experimental aircraft. However a few questions come to mind about the 23 deaths. How many of the deaths would have been prevented by a BRS system? How many accidents were the BRS was not used would have resulted in death if it had been used? How many childern are killed by airbags in an RV-6? FARs require parachutes for aerobatic flying, should the FAA also require a BRS system for aerobatic flying? I think that installing a BRS is an individual decision. The same as building an experimental, if an experimental is too dangerous then don't build or fly one. I have a very good freind with 2000+ GA hours and 500+ GA jet hours, who absolutely refuses to fly in any homebuilt reqardless of who built it. I can respect his decision, but I do not agree with it. It is much easier and cheaper to just buy a seatpack parachute. Bob Busick << I was reading "16 Years of the RV-ATOR" especially the accident reports. I was reading about the mistakes the pilots made and the broken airplane parts and thinking that a system like BRS might have given those people a second chance. 23 lives lost out of 1500+ planes built! Flying experimental aircraft is a very dangerous sport and it's important to give the pilots and passengers (usually our family members) the best chance possible. This type of device is not going to make a dangerous pilot better. It might make him worse. But if I screw up or a part breaks, I would like a second chance. I Ernesto Sanchez es12043(at)utech.net >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MAlexan533(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 21, 1997
Subject: HIGH COMPRESSION PISTONS?
Another question: I have an RV-4 with 0-320-E2D, engine is 1900 tt, and am having a top overhaul done. My mechanic says it is very little more to add the high compression pistons, while we're replacing them anyway. Makes it 160 hp. Also will use 100LL. Am hoping to get another 4-500 hours before doing a major overhaul. Have any of you guys done this? Should I go with the high compression pistons, or stay with the standard ones? Anybody have any experience with how much if any extra performance is gained? Increased fuel burn? Will this considerably decrease my chances of going 4-500 hours with no problems? MAlexan533 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MAlexan533(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 21, 1997
Subject: PARACHUTES
I recently bought an RV-4, and in reading the letters on the list about the BRS systems, I'm wondering how many of you guys wear parachutes when doing aerobatics? I eventually plan to do sportsman aerobatics, I will mostly be by myself, and I thought about picking up a parachute. I have read something in the RVators about the canopy being pop riveted so that the canopy can be jettisoned in order to exit the aircraft. If you do use one, what kind? Seat pack?, Back pack? Your experiences or knowlege appreciated by myself and probably everyone else too! MAlexan533 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: gcomfo(at)tc3net.com (Gordon Comfort)
Subject: Re: Electric elevator trim
Jerry H. Prado wrote: > > > My tail was built with manual trim. I don't see why installing electric trim after the fact can't be accomplished by putting the servo somewhere other than in the tail!? It could be argued that a stronger servo would be required to offset resistence from the additional linkage or cable length. Other than that, anyone see a problem? > > Jerry Prado > RV6A The manual trim on my RV4 has two drawbacks. The friction discs on the control handle are nylon and not too smooth. Perhaps micarta would be better. The major problem is lost motion in the cable and clevises. It seems that where the cable makes the S curves in the tail all the internal clearances present themselves. Combined with the clearances in the clevises, considerable free play appears at the tab trailing edge. Remote mounting of the serve, as in converting from manual, would not help in this regard. Regarding high speed taxi testing, I was able to learn a lot without undue difficulty. Several runs were made at increasing speeds until nearly level attitude was reached. Allowing the tail to rise as it wanted to (elevator nearly neutral) and settle the same way with gentle throttle changes worked fine. With a bit of practice, response rates could be sensed, a good indication of airframe symmetry worked out and rudder effectiveness learned. Either forcing the tail up with the elevator or holding it down excessively can cause trouble. These runs helped in the first takeoff and landing. Suggest that you pick good conditions, zero or light wind and no crosswind. I did all my work on a paved runway but sod might be easier. I will put electric trim on the RV8 now under construction and expect to do high speed taxi tests as well. Gordon Comfort N363GC ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Prop Governor Cover Plate
From: ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy)
Date: Mar 21, 1997
>I have removed the prop governor adaptor pad from my Lyc 0360 >accessory >housing and am in need of a cover plate. Anybody have one they would >like to get rid of or could you direct me to a supplier. Try your local maintenance shop. I asked about one and they handed me a box with about 50 different sizes and told me if it was in there, I could have it. It was, and now I do. Ed Bundy RV6A N427EM first flight 11/20/96 ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Back Riveting Plate....
From: ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy)
Date: Mar 21, 1997
>Anyone have one of Avery's Back Riveting Plates that they no longer >need and would like to sell?? I couldn't see spending $30+ and probably a similar amount in shipping (that thing is HEAVY), so I went down to the local metal yard and picked up a scrap piece of 1/4" thick steel plate that was about 18"x10". It cost me $4. I polished one side with a grinder mounted Scotchbrite wheel and it worked great. Ed Bundy RV6A N427EM first flight 11/20/96 ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pmbs(at)probe.att.com
Date: Mar 21, 1997
Subject: Re: poster
Dave, you might take a picture of an RV you like....or perhaps can get a negative from one of the builders of a favorite picture. send it to any one of a number of Photo Finishers requesting a "Poster" be made of it. here at work, our photo service can make 16x24 sized pictures. you may have to be careful about the type of film the picture was taken with as higher speed film tends to produce "grainy" enlargements. good luck. Paul Bilodeau pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com 908-957-6611 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: poster
From: cecilth(at)juno.com (Cecil T Hatfield)
Date: Mar 21, 1997
Get the Calander from Van's and you will have thirteen color photos, you can put one in every room at home and work. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: "James K. Hurd" <hurd(at)riolink.com>
Subject: Dead Blow Hammer
Geo Orndorff uses a 3# dead blow hammer in the video to drive wing spar rivets. I've been all over El Paso and thru the Grainger catalog and can't find one with a steel face. Who sells these? Any way to construct a device to fit on the top of the Avery tool to accept a conventional hammer? Block of hardwood? Also can't find a smart level anywhere. Unfortunately trashed the message talking about the guy who sells these. How 'bout a repost or something? Thanks. Jim Hurd hurd(at)riolink.com Finished empennage TODAY ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: Bob Moore <bobmoore(at)wwd.net>
Subject: Re: BRS system
aol.com!RBusick505(at)matronics.com wrote: > My concern with the tone of this message is that big brother FAA should > mandate a BRS for all experimental aircraft. > FARs require parachutes for aerobatic flying, should the FAA also require a > BRS system for aerobatic flying? NOT necessarily true. Reread FAR 91.307(c). With passengers, all must have parachutes. With other crewmwmbers, no 'chutes required. FAR 1 definition of crewmember, anyone assigned duty during flight time. What kind of duty? Not specified. When will the "old pilot's wife's tale", aerobatics REQUIRE parachutes die? Bob Moore ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: Charles H Fink <CHFINK(at)envc.sandia.gov>
Subject: High Speed Taxi and BRS
Thanks to all who responded to the taxi post. There is some very good advice there. I should have had it last March when I began my testing. Bottom line from the posts is DON'T perform high speed taxi tests. Clarification; I don't force my tail up on takeoff. I should have been more clear on this. I begin the TO roll with the stick centered, trim set for about 85 MPH. After a short roll I add forward pressure lifting the tail. The stick is nowhere near full forward. As soon as the tail rises I ease off forward pressure and try to hold TO attitude. This is much easer said than done because of the sensitive controls and the quickness of the RV by the time you make 1 or 2 corrections the RV is ready to fly. If I do have the correct attitude the 6 leaves the ground at 65 MPH and it really feels good. If the mains have not left the runway just after 65 MPH then I add back pressure until the 6 lifts off. I don't force it off just add back pressure until it lifts off. I have taken off in some fairly heavy cross winds using this same method, maybe rolling just a little further before lifting the tail. It works very well for me. IMHO the RV has such a short TO roll and the rudder is so effective the TO method used is not very critical. This is not the case in some other taildraggers. On a side note I find it mildly difficult to avoid applying some right brake pressure during TO due to the large amount of rt rudder required. I don' t want to take my foot completely off the brake just in case I need it but I don't want to apply the brake when it is not needed either. Suggestions? Charles Fink RV-6 N548CF chfink(at)envc.sandia.gov Albuquerque, New Mexico ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com>
Subject: Re: HIGH COMPRESSION PISTONS?
> > Another question: I have an RV-4 with 0-320-E2D, engine is 1900 tt, and am > having a top overhaul done. My mechanic says it is very little more to add > the high compression pistons, while we're replacing them anyway. Makes it 160 > hp. Also will > use 100LL. Am hoping to get another 4-500 hours before doing a major > overhaul. Have any of you guys done this? Should I go with the high > compression pistons, or stay with the standard ones? Anybody have any > experience with how much if any extra performance is gained? Increased fuel > burn? Will this considerably decrease my chances of going 4-500 hours with no > problems? > MAlexan533 > My experience with the O-320/360 Lycs. is that the bottom end is very strong. With regular oil changes (50Hrs. or less) the botton end will be fine regardless of what top end components are used. We just did a major on 85Ws engine, and all of the botton end componets were within new limits. This incarnation of the engine had 2700+ hours on it. The crank 5730 TT. We fly 85W by manifold pressure, full power for TO, 25" max for climb and 23" for cruze. The engine gets an oil change every 50 Hrs. The top-end on the other hand was a mess. Three out of four of the chrome cylinders that were only 1800 Hrs. old showed giant cracks from one spark plug hole to the exhaust valve. I have never seen or even heard of a new cylinder dhaving this problem. For this reason we opted for new cylinders for this rebuild. It's hard to tell how an engine was treated in a prior life, so if I were you I wouldn't make any bets what the real life of the bottom end will be. As far as the performance gain from high-comp pistons, fly any otherwise identical airplanes, one with 150HP and the other 160. The climb rate will be much better with 160HP. In short, go for the HC pistons, and be nice to the engine. It will be nice to you Chris cruble(at)cisco.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: HIGH COMPRESSION PISTONS?
aol.com!MAlexan533(at)matronics.com wrote: > > > Another question: I have an RV-4 with 0-320-E2D, engine is 1900 tt, and am > having a top overhaul done. My mechanic says it is very little more to add > the high compression pistons, while we're replacing them anyway. Makes it 160 > hp. Also will > use 100LL. Am hoping to get another 4-500 hours before doing a major > overhaul. Have any of you guys done this? Should I go with the high > compression pistons, or stay with the standard ones? Anybody have any > experience with how much if any extra performance is gained? Increased fuel > burn? Will this considerably decrease my chances of going 4-500 hours with no > problems? > MAlexan533 I can't speak from personal experience with that motor, but I can suggest you consider the following: #1 Raising compression increases heat in the cylinder and increases torque. You know your engine better than I do, as regards its temperatures, you make the call. Increasing torque will give better rate of climb and small M.P.G. improvements. #2 Raising the compression will prevent you from getting an auto gas STC if you wanted to do that. The STC is limited to engines using 80/87 octane fuel. Just my thoughts, Charlie Kuss ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JAllen6526(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 21, 1997
Subject: Re: HIGH COMPRESSION PISTONS?
I also have an O320-E2D. The high compression pistons actually cost less than the low compression. I don't recall a difference in price on the ring sets. You can look in a trade-a-plane or log into Sacramento Sky Ranch http://www.sierra.net/skyranch/ to get some idea on relative pricing. I made the decision to use the 150hp pistons. I was concerned that some modification would need to be made to the rings to accomodate the straight (unchoked barrels) on these cylinders. (That's another story, but suffice it to say that some O/H shops install the 10 over rings and modify them for the 160hp pistons with unchoked cylinders. Engine modification is religion, not science and how it is performed depends on which high priest,er, mechanic you choose) After I had bought the pistons and rings, I pushed the rings down into the cylinder and discovered, amazingly, that when the cylinders were chromed the shop had apparently put a choke into the cylinders. (There is "service bulletin" in the Superior manual that talks about some shops doing this.) Now I'm debating whether to send the pistons back and get 160hp pistons. However, I probably won't because I have now spent all of the time I had allocated in this lifetime to worry about Lycoming pistons. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Rivet Guns
aol.com!RFierb6707(at)matronics.com wrote: > > > Need to buy a rivet gun-Any suggestions on brands,new or rebuilt,2x or 3x and > possible suppliers? Thanks Rob FierbergI bought a Souix 3x and used it on the empennage and part of the wing before I tried a 2x gun from Cleveland (about $125 I think). I prefer the 2x, it seems more forgiving than the 3x. Clevland's price is pretty low and the quality seems good. Ed Cole RV6A 24430 Wings (still) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: Electric elevator trim
> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry H. Prado" > >My tail was built with manual trim. I don't see why installing electric trim after the fact can't be accomplished by putting the servo somewhere other than in the tail!? It could be argued that a stronger servo would be required to offset resistence from the additional linkage or cable length. Other than that, anyone see a problem? > >Jerry Prado >RV6A Jerry, Several people have decided to make the change after-the-fact. This can be easily done by using the RV-4 throttle cable in lieu of the trim cable. The throttle cable is 55" and will move the servo (MSTS-8) to the rear of the fuselage. Bill Bill RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV flying hours. These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough)
Date: Mar 21, 1997
Subject: Re: Electric elevator trim
My tail was built with manual trim. I don't see why installing electric trim after the fact can't be accomplished by putting the servo somewhere other than in the tail!? It could be argued that a stronger servo would be required to offset resistence from the additional linkage or cable length. Other than that, anyone see a problem? I retro fitted an electric trim to an already closed manual trim elevator. It was a little tricky but not impossible and I'm very glad I did it. I'm not sure if I would have done it to a painted elevator though. Ken RV6A Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough)
Date: Mar 21, 1997
Subject: Re: Plane data sheets
I''d like to know how you mounted the Garman 195. I mounted a '195 in my 6a too. The first attempt was at the end of a gooseneck that was secured to the floor between the seats. This looked really cool, sort of like a targeting site on an X wing fighter. I could bend it in any direction so that either occupant could access it. It worked pretty well too until I pulled some G and it sank! The other problem was a tendency to have my head inside the cockpit...not a good idea. My second (and current) attempt is mounted on the left side of my panel. I have two attachments that hold microphones to mic stands. The unit can now bend almost like a universal joint and the internal antenna has access to the sky. I dismantled most of the yoke that came with the unit and attached my bracket to the 195 with an aluminium plate held on by 4 screws. This works pretty good in that I can angle it out of direct sunlight or directly towards me. It also doesn't keep my head inside. Only disadvantage is that for my passenger to use it I would have to unclip it from the yoke which I suppose is no real big deal. Ken RV6A Flying (finally got approval to fly into the Bahamas!!!) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: HIGH COMPRESSION PISTONS?
> >Another question: I have an RV-4 with 0-320-E2D, engine is 1900 tt, and am >having a top overhaul done. My mechanic says it is very little more to add >the high compression pistons, while we're replacing them anyway. Makes it 160 >hp. Also will >use 100LL. Am hoping to get another 4-500 hours before doing a major >overhaul. Have any of you guys done this? Should I go with the high >compression pistons, or stay with the standard ones? Anybody have any >experience with how much if any extra performance is gained? Increased fuel >burn? Will this considerably decrease my chances of going 4-500 hours with no >problems? >MAlexan533 Tom Green was quite content with his 150 on an RV-6 until he joined Van's and flew the larger hp planes (160hp RV-6, 180hp RV-6T). Of course, they had c/s props so there was an effect there also. On a long weekend, he made the change you were refering to and came to work with a big RV grim on his face. Theoretically, he should have picked up 3 to 4 mph but he was seeing close to 8 to 10 mph. There is no magic in this business (maybe some smoke and mirrors) so after headscratching the following was determined: without changing props, the extra hp allowed the prop to turn faster, thus he was getting extra hp from the extra rpms. Sound like mirrors, doesn't it? If he had repitched the prop for the extra hp to keep the full throttle rpm's at the same that he had with the 150 hp engine, he would have seen an additional 3 to 4 mph. However, by allowing the rpm's to increase, the engine was producing more horses than in the previous example. Remember, just because we are driving a 160 hp engine does not mean we have them all pulling for us. Usually we are runnung around between 55 to 75% of our horses functioning. Tom was just able to operate with more of them under the same condition he had measured before. As far as fuel consumption, the higher compression engine will consume slightly less fuel if you fly at the same speed you did before. However with the extra horses, my bet is you will fly at the higher speeds and will burn just slightly more fuel than before. If you want to contact Tom regarding his thoughts, you can reach him at *76455.1602(at)compuserve.com* Bill PS: Even good old O-290Ken Scott had his O-320 bumped up to 160hp. If you ask him about it, there will be some stumbling around but there will be a valid reason. Ken has not flown it yet, so he cannot comment about performance differences. Bill RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV flying hours. These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or position of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Shelby1138(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 21, 1997
Subject: Re: Dick Waters Engines
Thanks to everyone concerning Mr. Waters. This is one thing that is so frustrating about looking at used equipment. The histories are almost always suspicious for one reason or another. Wentworth and some of the others are so efficient at parting out planes there seem to be no bargains at these places either. Thanks, Shelby Smith ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net>
Subject: Edge bending tool
Fellow RVers & GSers, My memory was jogged, while bending the wing skins on the Glastar project, of a hint that may make the job go a little easier for you. Most of you have probably noticed that, when using the Avery edge bending tool, that the tool tends to get scratched up and that the tool will roughen up your smoothed edges on the skin. When I was doing the RV-6 skins, I'd take the wheels off and polish the surface, but the smooth surface didn't last long. To make things go really smooth, I stuck on some self-adhesive UHMW (.010" thickness. The same stuff I used on my flaps at the wear point.) With the UHMW on the tool, edged bending is effortless and the edges of the skin are no longer roughed up. Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)navix.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Dead Blow Hammer
> Geo Orndorff uses a 3# dead blow hammer in the video to drive wing spar > rivets. I've been all over El Paso and thru the Grainger catalog and > can't find one with a steel face. Who sells these? I used a big short-handle 4 1/2 lb sledge to do my wing spar rivets. After doing that, and completing the rest of the airframe using a regular hammer, the tool is only slightly mushroomed out at the top. I suppose a dead-blow would be nice but I really don't think it's necessary. I'm sure hundreds of RV builders who did the same thing would back me up on this. > Also can't find a smart level anywhere. Unfortunately trashed the > message talking about the guy who sells these. How 'bout a repost or > something? Thanks. Avery sells them through their catalog. I got mine at a local H/W store for somewhat less $$ than Avery sells them for. Randall Henderson, RV-6 randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernesto Sanchez" <es12043(at)utech.net>
Subject: Re: BRAS system
Date: Mar 21, 1997
TONE OF MY MESSAGE! FAA SHOULD MANDATE A BRAS??!!?? When did I say that! All I related is that this is a dangerous sport and if you are concerned about taking an extra step towards the protection of the riders of your aircraft I gave a name and an number of some who could help you. We as a nation are over-regulated not because of what we talk about but because of who we elect to public office. If you are worried about the FAA called your public officials and that doesn't do it for you vote them out! Ernesto Sanchez es12043(at)utech.net ---------- > From: aol.com!RBusick505(at)matronics.com > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: BRS system > Date: Friday, March 21, 1997 1:41 AM > > > My concern with the tone of this message is that big brother FAA should > mandate a BRS for all experimental aircraft. However a few questions come to > mind about the 23 deaths. How many of the deaths would have been prevented > by a BRS system? How many accidents were the BRS was not used would have > resulted in death if it had been used? How many childern are killed by > airbags in an RV-6? > > FARs require parachutes for aerobatic flying, should the FAA also require a > BRS system for aerobatic flying? > > I think that installing a BRS is an individual decision. The same as > building an experimental, if an experimental is too dangerous then don't > build or fly one. I have a very good freind with 2000+ GA hours and 500+ GA > jet hours, who absolutely refuses to fly in any homebuilt reqardless of who > built it. I can respect his decision, but I do not agree with it. > > It is much easier and cheaper to just buy a seatpack parachute. > > Bob Busick > > > > << > I was reading "16 Years of the RV-ATOR" especially the accident reports. I > was reading about the mistakes the pilots made and the broken airplane > parts and thinking that a system like BRS might have given those people a > second chance. 23 lives lost out of 1500+ planes built! Flying > experimental aircraft is a very dangerous sport and it's important to give > the pilots and passengers (usually our family members) the best chance > possible. This type of device is not going to make a dangerous pilot > better. It might make him worse. But if I screw up or a part breaks, I > would like a second chance. > I > > Ernesto Sanchez > es12043(at)utech.net > >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: Edge bending tool
Date: Mar 21, 1997
I have had problems with the Avery tool wanting to roll off diagonally while using it. Maybe I use too much pressure - I don't know. I just bought the Cleveland tool which is made out of vice grips and has nice metal wheels on some kind of good bearing/bushing. This tool works MUCH better than the Avery one. It is spendy tho- $25 bucks or something. It is much easier to hold and control. Anybody want to buy an avery edge rolling tool - cheap? > ---------- > From: Bob Skinner[SMTP:navix.net!BSkinner(at)matronics.com] > Sent: Friday, March 21, 1997 9:55 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Cc: Glastarnet(at)insync.net > Subject: RV-List: Edge bending tool > > > Fellow RVers & GSers, > My memory was jogged, while bending the wing skins on the Glastar > project, > of a hint that may make the job go a little easier for you. > Most of you have probably noticed that, when using the Avery edge > bending > tool, that the tool tends to get scratched up and that the tool will > roughen > up your smoothed edges on the skin. When I was doing the RV-6 skins, > I'd > take the wheels off and polish the surface, but the smooth surface > didn't > last long. > To make things go really smooth, I stuck on some self-adhesive UHMW > (.010" > thickness. The same stuff I used on my flaps at the wear point.) > With the > UHMW on the tool, edged bending is effortless and the edges of the > skin are > no longer roughed up. > > Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)navix.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 21, 1997
Subject: Re: poster
Dave, Order the calander from Vans, youll get 12 color pictures. Ryan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pmbs(at)probe.att.com
Date: Mar 21, 1997
Subject: Re: Electric elevator trim
another argument for installing the servo in the elevator when it is first constructed is that the elevator should be rebalanced if it is retrofitted with the electric trim in the elevator (per Van's Accessories Catalog Description). this would make one want to put the servo elsewhere in the plane and take a chance that the control cable slop within the cable is not so much as to cause a problem in that you can never trim the plane "perfectly". perhaps those who install the manual trim first could use a trim cable having minimal slop between the cable and it's sheath. (then you gotta worry about the cable binding as it ages, either from friction caused by small pieces of cable or sheath that may have become detached from the cable or sheath material and end up between the cable and it's sheath from the cable just sitting in the aircraft fuselage unlubricated, or if lubricated, having the lubricant deteriorate enough to slow or stop trim cable movement after years go by..... anyway with a cable having less slop, assuming none of the above problems, one could mount the servo elsewhere without having to take apart your elevator, install the servo, rebalance the elevator and then repaint the elevator. -- finishing up empennage jig horizontal and building -- -- a 4 positiion benchtop tool table (a-la Tony Bingelis) -- Paul Bilodeau pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com 908-957-6611 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: Robert Fritz <75303.1623(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Stick and Rudder vs. The Compleat Taildragger Pilot
Having recommended Plourde's book, The Compleate Taildragger Pilot, I read that several people are extolling the wisdom contained within Langewiesche's Stick and Rudder. Let me offer a few quotes: Page 7 - "Forget Bernoulli's theorem" Page 8 - "The airplane keeps itself up by beating the air down." Page 17 - "A wing is an inclined plane, set into a wind so as to deflect the air downward. For greater efficiency, this basic inclined plane is enclosed by a curved outer shape." Page 45 - "On no other subject [lift] is there so much difference between what the engineer claims and the pilot knows." Page 110 - "The airplane has a built-in will of its own, and generally speaking it wants to do whatever is necessary to maintain healthy flight." Page 111 - "That a good airplane, left to itself, will fly straight and level and hold its wings level is simply not true." Page 352 - "It [math] keeps pilots arguing in the airport cafe over things to which the engineers and the professors have known for 20 years. I invite our aeronautical engineers to comment on this. In balance, though, I will admit to finding many useful insights in the book. It is definately worth reading. However, while useful in the whole, I must regard the work as less a bible and more a comment on the scientific education of the 1944 pilot. Cheers Bob Fritz ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: Craig Hiers <CRAIG-RV-4.@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Electric elevator trim
Gordon Comfort wrote: > The major > problem is lost motion in the cable and clevises. It seems that where > the cable makes the S curves in the tail all the internal clearances > present themselves. > Combined with the clearances in the clevises, considerable free play > appears at the tab trailing edge. Remote mounting of the serve, as in > converting from manual, would not help in this regard. > > Gordon Comfort > N363GC Gordon What do you mean by this? The routing of the trim cable, and the clevises are causing free play in the trim tab? Mine seem to be very tight, but I would like to know if there is a potential problem here. Craig Hiers RV-4 N143CH Tallahassee,FL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: Charlie & Tupper England <england(at)vicksburg.com>
Subject: Re: Heavy right wing?
>I got this advice to squeeze the trailing edge of the light aileron out of >the RVator. I don't know the full explanation of why it works, but it does. > Ask Bill Benedict. I saw this reprinted in EAA Technical Advisor magazine a few months ago. After flying my (purchased) RV-4 with a slight but very noticable left wing heavy condition for about 2 1/2 years, & trying to trim with the flaps (standard practice for T-18 owners), I inspected the ailerons. I could actually feel a difference in the trailing edge radius (light wing is more rounded). I grabbed my seaming tool, taped the jaws, & squeezed the light aileron to a nice tight radius. Went flying, & realized I should have paid attention to the article's instructions to do it in SMALL increments. I now had a very heavy right wing, & had to use the wood block/hammer technique (also described in the article) to put some radius back in the trailing edge. My layman's understanding of what's happening is this: rounded trailing edge causes airflow to remain attached & try to curl around to the other side of the aileron, instead of a clean break at the trailing edge. The article also hinted at a 'hunting' condition where the control surface can't find a stable neutral point. I also had a problem with the a/c not holding pitch trim, so I looked at the elevator & trim tab. I haven't flown a cross country since doing the elevator & tab, but it does seem to hold trim better now, and it seems to have a slightly firmer feel in pitch. I would have to call the elevator results subjective at this time, but the aileron effect is very pronounced; the first adjustment could not be trimmed out with Van's spring trim system. Can anyone correct or add to this? Charlie England RV-4 N4375J ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 21, 1997
Subject: STC for Mogas?
<< #2 Raising the compression will prevent you from getting an auto gas STC if you wanted to do that. The STC is limited to engines using 80/87 octane fuel. >> STC? STC! We don't need no steenking STC! As the builder of an amateur built aircraft, YOU are the MANUFACTURER. Guess who gets to decide if the a/c gets to burn what gas? That's right, the manufacturer. STC's are aftermarket items, where somebody does all the necessary footwork to get an item/change approved on somebody else's a/c. I had a "converted" 150 in my -4, and I always (when practical) carried 25% av/ 75% auto in both tanks, except in the spring, where I raised the mix to 50/50. Straight 100LL on trips, as Mogas isn't that easy to find. My current a/c has an Airflow F.I. system, and it definately doesn't like the Mogas on the ground (lotsa vapor locking & spitting & sputtering). Hence, I keep one tank full with 100LL (ground ops, T/O & landing), and the other straight Mogas for cruise, when engine load is lower. I anticipate somewhat longer plug life while using unleaded fuel. 12 plugs are a bit over $170 US. BTW, if your engine was built when 91/96 was available, that will be the min fuel octane specified on the dataplate, if the engine has the "high" (8.5:1) compression pistons. I seem to recall the min octane for my Champ is 73. That type is VERY hard to find! Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Questions from Portugal
I recently received a letter from a guy in Portugal, name of Joao Carlos Carvalho, who is interested in RVs, specifically the RV-6QB, and has several questions, some of which I can't answer. But I'll bet the 'list can! I would appreciate some help with responses to the following. Please send responses directly to my email address, randall(at)edt.com, unless you think it would serve the whole list. Here are the questions I could use help with (in his words):. "I intend to install a lycoming IO-320 160HP, with a constant speed propeller. What engine types fit with the motor mount frame of the RV6, and the average price for a remanufactured one? Is the maintenance of an injection system complicated for an homebuilder even with good knowledge of motorcar mechanics? What are the main procedures for the maintenance of an injection system, and what tools and equipment I must have to do the task? When the kit and engine are ordered, does Van's supply workshop books, for maintenance of the engine? Has the carburettor of an O-320 engine provisions to install a probe for an ice detector? What's your opinion about the effectiveness of this instrument. Thanks! Randall Henderson, RV-6 randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry H. Prado" <jerryprado(at)wa.net>
Subject: Electric trim - after-the-fact
Date: Mar 21, 1997
Well, that solves it. I will mount my servo approx. 50" forward of the = tail, in as straight a line as possible, slightly higher than the clevis = (to allow lubrication to be introduced at the servo end and travel = towards the tail) and secured at multiple points in the run.=20 I never considered "excessive play" or "binding" as related issues. They = will or won't exist based on the fit of the clevis, the routing of the = cable, sleeve diameter vs. cable diameter etc. =20 Thanks gentlemen,=20 Jerry Prado 6A-Wing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Cleveland tools
Does anyone happen to have a number or address I could get a catalog form Cleveland. I have use the mention edge bender one time and it work very nice. I have been meaning to get one. Thanks. denny h. RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: Questions from Portugal
I can answer this part: Is the maintenance of an injection system complicated for an homebuilder even with good knowledge of motorcar mechanics? I am not familiar with what is on the latest Lycomings but the fuel injection system on my Debonair is dog simple. An auto mechanic capable of working on auto FI systems will find that maintenance will be very easy to learn. Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Almost ready to start on the wings halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com>
Subject: Re: Cleveland tools
> >Does anyone happen to have a number or address I could get a catalog form >Cleveland. I have use the mention edge bender one time and it work very >nice. I have been meaning to get one. Thanks. Denny: One of these should work: WWW Page http://www.cleavelandtool.com Order by phone at: 1-800-368-1822 Questions by phone at: 515-432-6794 Order by Fax at: 515-432-7804 Order by E-Mail at: ClevTool(at)tdsi.net Order from our home page using: Order Form Order by snail mail at: Cleaveland Aircraft Tool, 2225 First St., Boone, IA 50036 John Top Phone: (619) 549-3556 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: HIGH COMPRESSION PISTONS?
Hiya there MAlexan533, I considered doing the same basic thing to my Continental IO-470-K in my Debonair when I had to overhaul. Doing so would make it a -N with 260hp versus 225. However, the N also had a different crankshaft and rods to sustain the greater loads imposed by higher pressures. The Lycoming four, I'm told, is a very strong engine so perhaps there is plenty of reserve. However, reliability would go down as it always does when you modify to improve hp without modifying to increase strength. The amount of reduction might be very small, possibly insignificant, but it will be there. Of course, if Lycoming uses the higher compression pistons with all the other parts then it is surely an acceptable decrease. Another way to put this is to say that when you use combinations of components that the manufacturer does not use, you are "supertuning" the engine as the British say or just "souping it up" as we say. The "formula" for horsepower is : PLAN that is P times L times A times N where P is the "brake mean effective pressure" - the mean pressure in the combustion chamber. and L is the length of the stroke and A is the area of the top of the pistons - one piston times how many of em. and N is the RPM Don't expect this to give you a usuable absolute value. Rather, use the formula to see the effect of juggling the parameters P, L, A, & N. This is gross horsepower (indicated horsepower) and half or so of it is lost to friction within the engine. Increase A by boring out cylinders, L by changing the crankshaft etc. , P by using higher compression pistons or heads and N by several actions. P & N are the easiest to change. Changing either increases the stress on the lower unit - rods and crankshaft, burns more fuel so as to keep the fuel/air ratio constant and as a result creates more heat. BUT there is a way to avoid these problems of stress and heat and it is real easy. Simply remember that your pilot limited RV has a pilot limited engine! Just don't ever run the engine at maximum hp. This isn't as silly as it might at first sound. If you have increased your engine's max hp by 10%, then don't use full power till you are at a high enough elevation to where the engine will only produce 90% of the original hp. Now firewall it and it is producing 90% of it's max which is still 10% higher than the original could have done and equal to the original max hp! In short, if you use the added power only at higher altitudes, the added stress will be no more than it would have been with original power at low altitude. RPM is still a limiting factor, because of the prop's max and I am told, because a Lycoming will come from gather if you try to increase it very much! Where I want more power is not for go faster but for climb faster, higher and with more ice. The engine is part of our experimental aircraft so why not learn about it and experiment? Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Almost ready to start on the wings. halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com>
Subject: Re: Electric trim - after-the-fact
>Jerry: Something is causing coding errors. See below: >Well, that solves it. I will mount my servo approx. 50" forward of the = >tail, in as straight a line as possible, slightly higher than the clevis = >(to allow lubrication to be introduced at the servo end and travel = >towards the tail) and secured at multiple points in the run.=20 > >I never considered "excessive play" or "binding" as related issues. They = >will or won't exist based on the fit of the clevis, the routing of the = >cable, sleeve diameter vs. cable diameter etc. =20 > >Thanks gentlemen,=20 > >Jerry Prado >6A-Wing John Top #5372 (619) 549-3556 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Cleveland tools
>From the rv-list yeller pages, http://www.sound.net/~hartmann/yelrpage.htm : CLEAVELAND TOOLS 800-368-1822 515-432-6794 cat3tools(at)aol.com AIRCRAFT TOOLS ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: Tim Bronson <70773.2700(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: elevator trim
Craig Hiers wrote: P.S. I flew on a P.B.A. airlines EMB 110 about 10 years ago, I got off the plane in Tallahassee in the AM. the plane went to Jacksonville that afternoon and on takeoff out of JAX the plane suffered run-away trim, the plane crashed before the pilot could react and killed all on board. If this had happend one takeoff earlier I would not be here. I think about this a lot. FWIW, from a former EMB-110 (Embraer Bandeirante commuter turboprop) pilot: It is my understanding that the accident in question was due to a failure of the horizontal stabilizer, not a runaway trim. At any rate, if fear of a possible runaway trim is the reason someone is electing not to install electric trim in an RV, I would reconsider. Bear in mind that I have yet to fly an RV (a condition I hope to rectify soon), but I have flown numerous light aircraft and haven't found any that were excessively difficult to control out of trim. I understand that the RV is very light on the controls, and think it's probably relatively easy to manage even with full nose-up or nose-down trim. I would make that decision more on personal preference, but consideration of possible failures is every builder's responsibility. On the other hand, you never have to adjust, repair, or replace anything that you don't install. Tim Bronson Pittsburgh RV-8WB (Wanna build) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: HIGH Comp Pistons, what Lyc says you need
Date: Mar 21, 1997
Let me offer the other technical aspects of upgrading a 150 to 160 HP. If you convert a 150 HP to a 160 HP, you of course need the higher comp. pistons. Lycoming also says you should have either Nitrided Steel Cylinders or Chrome Cyl. The stock 150's just had plain steel jugs. I think the higher comp will put more pressure on the rings so that is why Lyc wants the nitrided steel or chrome cylinders. They also specify the latest Exh valves and guides. Exh valves have changed over time and if you have an older engine, it may not have the latest style Exh valves. You should also use the latest wrist pins as well. The new style has pressed in plugs vs the floating wrist pin plugs. I don't have the specs here at work but I think these are the major items they call for. Lyc does not recommend upgrading the older 'narrow deck' 150 HP engines to 160 because they do not have the cylinder base doublers to stringthing the area at the hold down nuts where it bolts to the case. The 160 narrow deck engines have this. They also have longer throught studs and one less cooling fin at the bottom of the cyl. Therefor, to convert a 150 ND to 160, you need longer through studs and machine the fin off the cyl and add the doublers. This is a real pain if you do it by Lyc's specs. I OH'd a 150 narrow deck (0320-A1A) and decided to convert it to 160 HP anyway. The 160 is only 6.7 % more HP so I decided it was not worth the effort to change all the studs, etc. I talked to several other people who had done this and all said it was not a problem. I have been flying this in a Pitts for 2 yrs now and it flys at full power and 3100 to 3400 (or more) RPM all the time. So far so good. All of this is for certified engines and aircraft of course. RAM has a STC for updating E2D engines to 160 HP for Cessnas and they callout the chrome cyl, etc as well. The E2D is a wide deck engine. If you just want a few more hours on a major and are doing a top OH, I would not be too concerned about the plain steel jugs. All the new style jugs are built with 'choke' so they are smaller at the top. This way, when the upper part of the cyl (runs hotter) heats up it will expand and you will have a more true cylinder bore. This should also be done if you chrome back the cyl to 'standard'. You will also get more wear out of the cyl as they usually wear at the top. Regards, Herman dierks(at)austin.ibm.com > > Another question: I have an RV-4 with 0-320-E2D, engine is 1900 tt, and am > having a top overhaul done. My mechanic says it is very little more to add > the high compression pistons, while we're replacing them anyway. Makes it 160 > hp. Also will > use 100LL. Am hoping to get another 4-500 hours before doing a major > overhaul. Have any of you guys done this? Should I go with the high > compression pistons, or stay with the standard ones? Anybody have any > experience with how much if any extra performance is gained? Increased fuel > burn? Will this considerably decrease my chances of going 4-500 hours with no > problems? > MAlexan533 > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: Tim Bronson <70773.2700(at)CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Cleveland tools
..."number or address I could get a catalog form Cleveland."... Cleaveland Tool & Material 1804 First Street Boone, IA 50036 USA (515) 432-6794 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com>
Subject: Carb Temp Probe
Listers; I'm about to install a carb temp probe on my -6A and was wondering where exactly it goes. I have a new O-320 D1A from Van's. The instructions that came with the probe indicate that some carbs have a lead plug that must be drilled out, tapped and then the probe inserted. Other carbs have a brass plug that can be removed and then the probe inserted. This is a stupid question, but what is on the new carbs from Van's? My carb is already installed with the air box. I see what appears to be a plug on the front of the carb, centered above the data plate. Is this the one that should be removed? Obviously, I'm new at this engine installation business and want to make sure that I don't end up readjusting a factory preset setting. Any input on what I should do would be greatly appreciated. Scott Gesele N506RV ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Primer Fittings
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)highfiber.com>
Ed Bundy asked: ...can someone give me a part # and source for the actual primer fittings? ----------------- Both Wicks and ACS handle primer fittings in their catalogs (with the AN fittings). The primer fittings are AN4022-1 (straight) or AN4023-1 (elbow). You will also need a AN800-2 union cone (to solder on the copper line) and an AN805-2 union nut for each primer fitting. (Installing engine bits) Mike Kukulski RV-4 N96MK kukulski(at)highfiber.com Albuquerque, NM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 21, 1997
Subject: Re: BRAS system
<< TONE OF MY MESSAGE! FAA SHOULD MANDATE A BRAS??!!?? >> I prefer the WonderBRAS system. You folks don't want you be flopping around in turbulence now do you? -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Re: Cleveland tools
Date: Mar 21, 1997
> Does anyone happen to have a number or address I could get a catalog form > Cleveland. I have use the mention edge bender one time and it work very > nice. I have been meaning to get one. Thanks. Cleaveland tools: email: clevtool(at)tdsi.net WWW: http://www.cleavelandtool.com -Joe -- Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-551-1072 14190 47th Ave N. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: STC for Mogas?
aol.com!Mlfred(at)matronics.com wrote: > > > > << #2 Raising the compression will prevent you from getting an auto gas > STC if you wanted to do that. The STC is limited to engines using 80/87 > octane fuel. >> > > STC? STC! We don't need no steenking STC! > > As the builder of an amateur built aircraft, YOU are the MANUFACTURER. Guess > who gets to decide if the a/c gets to burn what gas? That's right, the > manufacturer. STC's are aftermarket items, where somebody does all the > necessary footwork to get an item/change approved on somebody else's a/c. > > I had a "converted" 150 in my -4, and I always (when practical) carried 25% > av/ 75% auto in both tanks, except in the spring, where I raised the mix to > 50/50. Straight 100LL on trips, as Mogas isn't that easy to find. > > My current a/c has an Airflow F.I. system, and it definately doesn't like the > Mogas on the ground (lotsa vapor locking & spitting & sputtering). Hence, I > keep one tank full with 100LL (ground ops, T/O & landing), and the other > straight Mogas for cruise, when engine load is lower. I anticipate somewhat > longer plug life while using unleaded fuel. 12 plugs are a bit over $170 US. > > BTW, if your engine was built when 91/96 was available, that will be the min > fuel octane specified on the dataplate, if the engine has the "high" (8.5:1) > compression pistons. I seem to recall the min octane for my Champ is 73. That > type is VERY hard to find! > > Check six! > Mark Mark, Perhaps I would have been clearer if I had said that raising the compression ratio would be unwise if you wanted to run straight Mogas at a later time. However, your suggestion of using a mixture of the two certainly is a good idea. Charlie Kuss ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 22, 1997
From: "Paul Osterman III" <PineRanch(at)msn.com>
Subject: Dick Waters Engines
Craig, Can you elaborate on the problems you or others have encountered? Paul Osterman III RV6A ---------- From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Craig Hiers Sent: Thursday, March 20, 1997 10:08 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Dick Waters Engines aol.com!Shelby1138(at)matronics.com wrote: > Anyone had any dealings with Dick Waters in Orlando. > > Shelby in Nashville. Shelby Stay as far away from this guy as you can, he and his motors are bad news. I bet I'm not the only one who tells you this. Craig Hiers RV-4 N143CH Tallahassee,FL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Lawson" <lscott(at)erinet.com>
Subject: Re: Question on riveting
Date: Mar 22, 1997
Remember, also, that with all things mechanical there is a tolerance. While preferred shop heads are 1.5D by .5D, depending on your reference they can be 1 2/3D by 1/3D to 1 1/3D by 2/3D. Once you get into shooting rivets, you will notice that as they swell there is a distinct tone change in the operation. Let off the trigger when you hear that change and you will almost always have an acceptable rivet. ---------- > From: Frank van der Hulst <pec.co.nz!frankv(at)matronics.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Question on riveting > Date: Thursday, March 20, 1997 3:19 PM > > > >I'm riveting the bearing mount on rear horizontal stab. > >The plans call for AN 470 4 5 rivets. After I install I > >checked with my avery Red -5 gauge and the hole end > >fits loosely over rivet end & when I check height it go's > >right over without touching. Is this correct? > > No... > > Firstly, you should be using the gold -4 gauge. The gauge size depends on > the diameter of the rivet, not its total length. > > Secondly, I found that the length (can't remember what it was) called for > in the plans (RV-6) was too short. I believed the plans and drove the first > rivet, then had to drill it out again because the shop head was too small. > It was very depressing having to drill out the first actual, real rivet I > drove! But no big deal in the end. > > Check out http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/bunny.htm for my various trials & > tribulations, and lots of RV-building tips & traps. > > Frank. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kevin lane <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Dead Blow Hammer
Date: Mar 22, 1997
>> Also can't find a smart level anywhere. Unfortunately trashed the >> message talking about the guy who sells these. How 'bout a repost or >> something? Thanks. > >Avery sells them through their catalog. I got mine at a local H/W store >for somewhat less $$ than Avery sells them for. > I've been a carpenter for 20+ yrs. now and have yet to understand, other than clever marketing, the advantage of the so called "smart level". My guess is that inside there is a bubble and a LED which is feeding some circuitry which displays a number. Any liquid spirit level can be checked for accuracy by reversing the level end to end and seeing if it reads the same. Split the difference for absolute level or plumb. Nothing beats a plumb bob for vertical accuracy, but then how do you market a weight and string? The same holds true with the laser levels. Think about it. You project a 6" level surface 30'--50' you're going to lose some accuracy. The secret to all of this is knowing your tolerances, something that isn't discussed enough. Read about engine mounts for instance. When they don't fit, what is acceptable? How much can you shim, how much can you bend, when is heat needed? Anyways, go buy a Sears 4' level, a torpedo level, try not to drop them too much, check them when you use them, and move on (=:/>* kevin distinctive decks & designs 6A-air box/baffling ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: PARACHUTES
From: tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com (John T. Craig-Stearman)
Date: Mar 22, 1997
writes: > I have read something in the RVators about the canopy being pop riveted so that the >canopy can be jettisoned in order to exit the aircraft. True. The canopy is secured with a minimum number of pop rivets so that it will pull free if unlatched in flight. It works, too. I have a friend who accidentally tested this feature while taxiing with an unlocked canopy on a windy day. The canopy pulled cleanly off without hitting the airframe. He straightened it and pop-riveted it back on without too much trouble. > I'm wondering how many of you guys wear parachutes when doing aerobatics? If >you do use one, what kind? Seat pack?, Back pack? Your experiences or knowlege >appreciated by myself and probably everyone else too! I have grown used to having the bail-out option in military flying. Because that has become an intrinsic part of my thinking, I determined to keep that option in my RV-4. In test-fitting my cockpit I discovered that I need a seat pack in the front seat and a back pack in the rear seat. I am 6' 2". With a Strong Enterprises seat pack resting on the floor, I have under an inch head room over my headset in the front seat. In the back seat, with a 2" seat per Cleaveland drawing, I have about the same head clearance. I found that the back pack moved me forward a little, leaving more head room, but of course less clearance from the back of the front seat and the stick. Hope that helps. Regards, Tom Craig-Stearman tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com RV-4 still installing engine mount. I think I have the problem solved; details to follow. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 1997
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com>
Subject: RV-8 Carrythrough bulkhead
As the RV-8 crew knows, the original carrythrough bulkheads were fabricated with the flutes in an incorrect position. We notified everyone and finally sent new bulkheads components out. As luck would have it, a vendor prepared these parts and wrapped them and they were incorrectly matched. As a result, we are having to recall these components. This only applies to those persons who received a care package within the last week containing 4 bulkheads plus other miscelaneous parts. We know exactly who has these parts and have sent letters to everyone affected. A letter was mailed on Thursday asking those persons to return only the 4 bulkheads to us with the number marked on the outside *RA8B* and include your name. We will sort throught all the parts and return the correct 4 parts. We will credit your account for the shipping charges to return the parts. This recall does not apply to those persons who have received their wings within the last 2 to 4 weeks. Only if you received a box approximately


March 13, 1997 - March 22, 1997

RV-Archive.digest.vol-cp