RV-Archive.digest.vol-cq
March 22, 1997 - April 01, 1997
4"x4"x26" with 4 bulkhead components plus an assortment of other items.
Thanks for your patience. We regret the inconvenience this wing kit has
caused and are doing our best to insure the fuselage kit will not have
similar problems. Bill Benedict, GM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin lane <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | fuel pressure guage location |
Is it OK to tap into the restricted fuel return line to pick up fuel
pressure reading for a wet-type guage? Down line from that I intended to
have an additional tank selector valve to choose where to dump the returned
fuel. Does the pressure read the same from either side of the restictor or
do I need to run a separate line back solely for the fuel pressure guage?
It seems that a line that is open on one end wouldn't read any pressure.
kevin 6A air box/baffles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric elevator trim |
probe.att.com!pmbs(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
> another argument for installing the servo in the elevator when it is
> first constructed is that the elevator should be rebalanced if it is
> retrofitted with the electric trim in the elevator (per Van's
> Accessories Catalog Description).
>
> this would make one want to put the servo elsewhere in the plane and
> take a chance that the control cable slop within the cable is not so
> much as to cause a problem in that you can never trim the plane
> "perfectly".
>
> perhaps those who install the manual trim first could use a trim cable
> having minimal slop between the cable and it's sheath. (then you gotta
> worry about the cable binding as it ages, either from friction caused
> by small pieces of cable or sheath that may have become detached from
> the cable or sheath material and end up between the cable and it's sheath
> from the cable just sitting in the aircraft fuselage unlubricated,
> or if lubricated, having the lubricant deteriorate enough to slow or
> stop trim cable movement after years go by.....
>
> anyway with a cable having less slop, assuming none of the above problems,
> one could mount the servo elsewhere without having to take apart your
> elevator, install the servo, rebalance the elevator and then repaint
> the elevator.
>
> -- finishing up empennage jig horizontal and building --
> -- a 4 positiion benchtop tool table (a-la Tony Bingelis) --
>
> Paul Bilodeau
> pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com
> 908-957-6611
Having flown my RV-6 with the manuel trim (500hrs.) and then installing
the Mac servo Elec.(300 hrs ago) trim I can tell you that the elec. trim
is much better.
Maybe the guys with the RV-4 don't have the slop problem because the
trim cable is in more of a straight line, in the -6 the trim cable makes
about a 130 degree bend in the cockpit area and I think this is where
the
slop comes from. I installed the trim with the elevator on the plane by
lifting up the tail( you can do this when the wheel is on the right end
of the airplane:-)) and taking out enough rivets in the bottom of the
elevator
to open it up enough to install all the hardware this was probably about
a days job and was not hard to to do at all. No I did not rebalence the
elevators. I know seveal other RVer's that have retrofitted the elec.
trim and did not balence them. There has not been a problem that I know
of with the slop in the trim cable but it is harder to trim because the
tendency to over trim and then have to trim the other way. It may just
be my imagination but with the elec. trim it just feels more pitch
stable and with
the trim control on the stick I can just tap it with my thumb to trim
exactly
where I want it.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cleveland tools |
>
>Does anyone happen to have a number or address I could get a catalog form
>Cleveland. I have use the mention edge bender one time and it work very
>nice. I have been meaning to get one. Thanks.
>
>denny h. RV-6
If you go to Van's homepage at *vansaircraft.com* and in the last section on
internet resources is a hot link to both Avery and Cleaveland. Pretty
simple. This way it doesn't get 10 people responding to your request. Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Carb Temp Probe |
Scott Gesele wrote:
>
>
> Listers;
>
> I'm about to install a carb temp probe on my -6A and was wondering where
> exactly it goes.
> Scott Gesele N506RV
Scott, just looked at my carb from Vans. Approximately 1.25 inches
below the flange that attaches the carb to the engine (top end) and on
the front face of the carb is a small brass plug with a screwdriver
head. Remove the plug and you have a small approx 1/8" threaded hole
into the carb throat and its real close to the butterfly. this is where
the temp prob goes. Tony B. also has a pict of it in his firewall
forward book.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Blake Harral <bharral(at)mindspring.com> |
> I've been a carpenter for 20+ yrs. now and have yet to understand, other
> than clever marketing, the advantage of the so called "smart level".
I have a smart level and am pleased with it. I bought it because
I am an engineer and a gadget freak. It does have some nifty features:
1) Can display angle in degrees, %grade, or inches rise per foot, in
addition to simulating the display of a bubble level.
2) Can be zero'd at any angle, thus making it slighty easier to measure
control surface deflections, or account for an unlevel work surface.
3) Has a hold feature that allows you to press a button to freeze the
reading
when the level is placed in some position that prevents you from seeing
the display.
Having said all that, I would recommend spending your $100 bucks or so
elsewhere, unless, like me you just think this is a cool gadget. After
I got mine, I did some comparisons with a bubble level, and I can tell
you that the a common, good-quality bubble level is _very_ accurate.
My smart level is accuracy/resolution in the 0.1 degree range and my
bubble
level shows 0.1 degree deviation from level quite clearly.
I also have another electronic level I bought for $15 at Home Depot
(recall I'm a gadget freak). This level has no readout at all,
just a LED and a beeper that activate when plumb or level. When I
want to put my RV-4 in a level attitude, I simply place this level
on the canopy rails, and lift the tail until I hear a steady tone.
The designers of both these instruments had the good sense to
incorporate
auto-off circuitry, so dead batteries are rarely a problem.
Blake Harral
RV-4 IO-360 Finish Kit in progress.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cleveland tools |
<< Does anyone happen to have a number or address I could get a catalog form
Cleveland. I have use the mention edge bender one time and it work very
nice. I have been meaning to get one. Thanks. >>
Check the Yeller Pages at hartmann(at)sound.net for all the phone and E-mail
numbers you will need to build and equip your RV. If you know of good
suppliers that are missing from the Yeller Pages please let me know as I
update it every month or so.
-GV
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Carb Temp Probe |
<< I'm about to install a carb temp probe on my -6A and was wondering where
exactly it goes. I have a new O-320 D1A from Van's. >>
Scott-
There should be a slotted brass threaded plug in the upper part of the
forward side of the carb. Get a good screwdriver first because it is really
seated well. Remove it. The port is tapped 1/4"-28 for the thermocouple.
-Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Shuttle Valves |
Does anyone have a good source and P/N for the shuttle valves used to make a
properly functioning dual braking system instead of using the cascaded (pax
side into pilot side) master cylinder setup as depicted in the ACS catalog
and Van's plans?
TIA
Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bseckstein(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Plane data sheets |
<< I am incorporating the defog and rudder trim systems as
described in the Newsletter except I am using a vernier trim cable to bias
the springs in the trim system. >>
What newsletter? Could you elaborate on the spring vernier trim system. Is
this like I see on Pipers?
Brian Eckstein
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
>
>I recently bought an RV-4, and in reading the letters on the list about the
>BRS systems, I'm wondering how many of you guys wear parachutes when doing
>aerobatics? I eventually plan to do sportsman aerobatics, I will mostly be by
>myself, and I thought about picking up a parachute. I have read something in
>the RVators about the canopy being pop riveted so that the canopy can be
>jettisoned in order to exit the aircraft. If you do use one, what kind? Seat
>pack?, Back pack? Your experiences or knowlege appreciated by myself and
>probably everyone else too!
>
>MAlexan533
>
I have and use a National 490 back pack. There's not a lot of extra room in
my 4 for any kind of chute. The back pack moves you forward so it cuts the
leg room but it's not a big deal. I wear it when I do aerobatics and wore it
during initial flight and limit testing. Actually I no longer do much except
rolls and very gentle stuff in my 4. I hanger with a Decathlon and a Skybolt
and use them for the more agressive aerobatics. (With a chute, double lap
straps for inverted protection... the whole 9 yards)
As far as getting out of an RV, well it all depends on what fails and what
the airplane is doing after the failure. One thing for sure.... if you don't
have a chute and it breaks you're toast.
People do get out of light aircraft. Last year a guy survived a bailout of a
Decathlon that had broken a wing I believe. The guy in the front got out,
the backseater didn't.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying since 8/94
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terrel L. Stern" <tstern(at)brainerd.net> |
aol.com!MAlexan533(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
> I recently bought an RV-4, and in reading the letters on the list about the
> BRS systems, I'm wondering how many of you guys wear parachutes when doing
> aerobatics? I eventually plan to do sportsman aerobatics, If you do use one,
what kind? Seat
> pack?, Back pack?
> MAlexan533
I use a seat pack from Butler Parachute Systems in the front seat of my
RV-4. I built the seat support to be removeable with four screws and
the parachute drops into the space between the wing spar and seat back.
The back of the parachute is padded also to replace the seat back
cushion. This way I can use either the regular seat cushions or the
parachute and have the same headroom. This seat pack was custom built
for the application (about 4 years ago). Call Manny Butler at
540-342-2501, he can supply this same design or will be happy to work
with you to provide something that fits exactly in your aircraft.
Terry Stern
RV-4 flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rimbold(at)apollo.hp.com (Rob Rimbold) |
| Subject: | Dead Blow Hammer |
> I've been a carpenter for 20+ yrs. now and have yet to understand, other
> than clever marketing, the advantage of the so called "smart level".
It gives an angle readout in tenths of degrees. A spirit level can
only tell you if you're level or not-level. While doing some work on
my Falcon XP, the smart level did things that a spirit level couldn't
do with any accuracy. For example, when you need to measure the
relative (vertical) angle between two pieces of the plane, especially
when neither of the pieces are horizontal or vertical and can't be
placed in that orientation.
I was setting the orientation of the landing gear longerons relative
to each other in both height, deck angle, and deck slope relative to
the rest of the fuselage. I also used it when setting the forward
rake angle of the nosegear relative to the fuselage. A spirit level
just can't tell you if you are 12.5 degrees forward or not. :-)
I agree that it's possible to do some of these things with other
hardware. It would, however, have been very difficult.
'Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Hatwell <hatters(at)overvne.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Dead Blow Hammer |
In message <3332A7C4.4C68(at)riolink.com>, "James K. Hurd" writes
>
>Geo Orndorff uses a 3# dead blow hammer in the video to drive wing spar
>rivets. I've been all over El Paso and thru the Grainger catalog and
>can't find one with a steel face. Who sells these? Any way to
>construct a device to fit on the top of the Avery tool to accept a
>conventional hammer? Block of hardwood?
>
>Also can't find a smart level anywhere. Unfortunately trashed the
>message talking about the guy who sells these. How 'bout a repost or
>something? Thanks.
>
>Jim Hurd hurd(at)riolink.com Finished empennage TODAY
>
Jim
Just done an RV4 spar with a heavy 4lb copper faced hammer, works fine.
IMHO the money I spent on a smart level was wasted, still use normal
spirit level as I have found it is more accurate. Smart level sitting in
a box in the corner gathering dust.
--
Rob Hatwell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shirley Hobenshield <shobenshield(at)cmsd.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: High Speed Taxi and BRS |
>
>Bottom line from the posts is DON'T perform high speed taxi tests.
. I begin the TO roll with the stick centered, trim set for about
>85 MPH. After a short roll I add forward pressure lifting the tail. The stick
>is nowhere near full forward. As soon as the tail rises I ease off
>forward pressure and try to hold TO attitude. This is much easer said
>than done because of the sensitive controls and the quickness of the
>RV by the time you make 1 or 2 corrections the RV is ready to fly. If I
>do have the correct attitude the 6 leaves the ground at 65 MPH and it
>really feels good.
>
>
>On a side note I find it mildly difficult to avoid applying some right brake
>pressure during TO due to the large amount of rt rudder required. I don' t
>want to take my foot completely off the brake just in case I need it but I
>don't want to apply the brake when it is not needed either. Suggestions?
Charles,
I agree on not performing high speed taxi tests, reducing power suddenly at
a high speed is almost the same as applying power suddenly when starting a
take-off roll.
Your proceedure on take-off is almost exactly as I have found although the
brake thing I stay away from. Perhaps adding power more gradually will curb
this habit?
I find myself taking off from a 3 point attitude and sometimes touching the
tail wheel. Its the over controlling as you state at the transition stage
that I find the hardest,as you say," 1 or 2 corrections "
This is not a big thing and lateral control is easy. I think that a few
hundred hours will give us the feel, after all we can fly OK its just those
other spam cans we flew had as much feel as a rail-road car.
Has anyone tryed to hold the plane down with the tail up at 60 mph? The
forces I've encountered are heavy to say the least. How about a wheel
landing? Mine are not pretty. The RV6 to me is a 3 pointer and as long as I
treat it that way things work out OK.
It is said that a landing is the reverse of a take-off, treating it so
takes out half the work!
Ed Hobenshield
RV 6 C-FXXG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dead Blow Hammer |
The real advantage of the smart level is in checking the lay of parts that
are neither plumb not vertical. If two parts, say ribs in left and right
halves of horizontal stabilizer, are at the same relative angle, then you
know that the geometry is symmetrical. I find myself using the Smart Level
all the time to check for right-left symmetry. Control surface travel is
very easy to measure with the SL. Finally, checking the angles of spar
flanges or any part is faster with the SL then with a protractor.
For simple plumb and horizontal, the old-fashioned bubble level is more
accurate.
----------
> From: kevin lane <worldnet.att.net!n3773(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Dead Blow Hammer
> Date: Friday, March 21, 1997 11:16 PM
>
>
>
> >> Also can't find a smart level anywhere. Unfortunately trashed the
> >> message talking about the guy who sells these. How 'bout a repost or
> >> something? Thanks.
> >
> >Avery sells them through their catalog. I got mine at a local H/W store
> >for somewhat less $$ than Avery sells them for.
> >
> I've been a carpenter for 20+ yrs. now and have yet to understand, other
> than clever marketing, the advantage of the so called "smart level". My
> guess is that inside there is a bubble and a LED which is feeding some
> circuitry which displays a number. Any liquid spirit level can be
checked
> for accuracy by reversing the level end to end and seeing if it reads the
> same. Split the difference for absolute level or plumb. Nothing beats a
> plumb bob for vertical accuracy, but then how do you market a weight and
> string? The same holds true with the laser levels. Think about it. You
> project a 6" level surface 30'--50' you're going to lose some accuracy.
The
> secret to all of this is knowing your tolerances, something that isn't
> discussed enough. Read about engine mounts for instance. When they
don't
> fit, what is acceptable? How much can you shim, how much can you bend,
> when is heat needed? Anyways, go buy a Sears 4' level, a torpedo level,
try
> not to drop them too much, check them when you use them, and move on
(=:/>*
> kevin distinctive decks & designs 6A-air box/baffling
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
I'm installing the control stops for the elevator on my RV-6AQ.
The preview RV-6 construction book calls for downward elevator travel
of 25 degrees. The RV-6Q book calls for 20-25 degrees (in chapter
15). I can get 21 degrees, then the elevator horns hit the HS-603
spar.
The only way I can see to get the full 25 degrees of travel is to
file a small portion off the bottom of the .032 HS-603 to give the
elevator horns greater travel. Or, I can accept the 21 degree limit.
Recommendations?
Thanks,
Tim
---------------------
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net
-----------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: fuel pressure guage location |
<< Is it OK to tap into the restricted fuel return line to pick up fuel
pressure reading for a wet-type guage? >>
Please, please people. For the RV-List Archive's sake please learn how to
spell
G-A-U-G-E. I just don't believe this continued ignorance. This particular
word is even used in Matt's List Usage Guidelines posted here monthly. Do
you guys ever read it?
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean & Scott Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net> |
| Subject: | Canopy (was PARACHUTES) |
John T. Craig-Stearman wrote:
>
>
> writes:
> > I have read something in the RVators about the canopy being pop riveted
> so that the >canopy can be jettisoned in order to exit the aircraft.
>
> True. The canopy is secured with a minimum number of pop rivets so that
> it will pull free if unlatched in flight. It works, too. I have a
> friend who accidentally tested this feature while taxiing with an
> unlocked canopy on a windy day. The canopy pulled cleanly off without
> hitting the airframe. He straightened it and pop-riveted it back on
> without too much trouble.
This was on an RV-4 right? Just wondering.
Another thing -anybody know if/how a -4 flys with the canopy open and
still attached to the airframe?
Scott
N4ZW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Meulemans Dirk <100554.1236(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Dead Blow Hammer |
I can't speak about riveting the wings, because I'm still working on the
empennage, but here's a useful addition to the Avery tool. A friend of mine
fabricated a piece that, on one side, fits over the drive pin, and on the
other side fits in a rivet gun just like a rivet set would. Used with a
stronger spring than the one provided by Avery, you can just put your rivet
gun on top, and you have a pneumatic Avery tool. It works great but you have
to keep the air pressure down for dimpling.
And while I'm at it, I'm probably not the only 'pre-drilled' builder who
would appreciate undersized #3 cleco's to match those underzised pre-drilled
holes.
Still working on the RV8 rudder
E-mail from: Meulemans Dirk, 22-Mar-1997
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean & Scott Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel pressure guage location |
kevin lane wrote:
>
>
> Is it OK to tap into the restricted fuel return line to pick up fuel
> pressure reading for a wet-type guage? Down line from that I intended to
> have an additional tank selector valve to choose where to dump the returned
> fuel. Does the pressure read the same from either side of the restictor or
> do I need to run a separate line back solely for the fuel pressure guage?
> It seems that a line that is open on one end wouldn't read any pressure.
> kevin 6A air box/baffles
You're right. You need to install your pickup line for the fuel press
guage in the line from the pump to the carb. Putting it in the return
line will indicate no pressure (unless you close the return selector you
plan on using -closing off the end of the return line)
Scott
N4ZW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Wiza" <joe(at)flnet.com> |
| Subject: | Flap lightening Holes |
I havent seen this question before so it must be me. How many lightneng
holes are required on dwg for the flap spar on dwg 17. 7 or 13 in other
words is the pattern continued 6",3",3",3" to the end of the spar???? TU
Joe/wing
joe(at)flnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Travel |
<< I'm installing the control stops for the elevator on my RV-6AQ.
The preview RV-6 construction book calls for downward elevator travel
of 25 degrees. The RV-6Q book calls for 20-25 degrees (in chapter
15). I can get 21 degrees, then the elevator horns hit the HS-603
spar.
The only way I can see to get the full 25 degrees of travel is to
file a small portion off the bottom of the .032 HS-603 to give the
elevator horns greater travel. Or, I can accept the 21 degree limit. >>
Tim-
This has been discussed before and I believe that filing out the flange just
enough to allow full travel is the correct thing to do, prior to installing
the hard stop. Just leave generous radii in the corners or taper out into
the surrounding flange.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Carrythrough bulkhead |
Whew! I'm so glad I checked my email this morning! The carrythrough
was going to be today's project...
I hope I speak for the rest of the 8 builders when I say that the
inconvenience from these things is well worth the personalized attention
and the TREMENDOUS improvement is bulding simplicity of this kit. I
watched the Orndorff tapes on the 6 and I swear you cut out half the
work. The kit is worth the wait!
Being in the software business I know how frusturating shipping delays
and finding & fixing bugs can be. I think y'all are doing an awesome
job.
-Mike
> ----------
> From: Bill Benedict[SMTP:europa.com!billb(at)matronics.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 21, 1997 10:32 PM
> To: RV-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: RV-8 Carrythrough bulkhead
>
>
> As the RV-8 crew knows, the original carrythrough bulkheads were
> fabricated
> with the flutes in an incorrect position. ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: elevator trim |
Tim Bronson wrote:
>
>
> Craig Hiers wrote:
>
>
>
> P.S. I flew on a P.B.A. airlines EMB 110 about 10 years ago, I
> got off the plane in Tallahassee in the AM. the plane went to
> Jacksonville that afternoon and on takeoff out of JAX the plane
> suffered run-away trim, the plane crashed before the pilot could react
> and killed all on board. If this had happend one takeoff earlier
> I would not be here. I think about this a lot.
>
>
>
> FWIW, from a former EMB-110 (Embraer Bandeirante commuter turboprop) pilot:
> It is my understanding that the accident in question was due to a failure
> of the horizontal stabilizer, not a runaway trim. At any rate, if fear of a
> possible runaway trim is the reason someone is electing not to install electric
trim
> in an RV, I would reconsider. Bear in mind that I have yet to fly an RV (a condition
> I hope to rectify soon), but I have flown numerous light aircraft and haven't
found
> any that were excessively difficult to control out of trim. I understand that
the
> RV is very light on the controls, and think it's probably relatively easy
> to manage even with full nose-up or nose-down trim. I would make that decision
> more on personal preference, but consideration of possible failures is every
> builder's responsibility.
>
> On the other hand, you never have to adjust, repair, or replace anything that
> you don't install.
>
> Tim Bronson Pittsburgh RV-8WB (Wanna build)
tim
I guess I should have included that I was an employee of P.B.A.
and the word we got from the NTSB was that it was run-away trim.
along with this P.B.A. pulled all of the electric trim circuit
breakers and used only manuel trim from then on. Of course this
and the cessna 402 that crashed because jet fuel was put in the
tanks was the beginning of the end of P.B.A.
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
Tallahassee,FL.
________________________________________________________________________________
Ernesto Sanchez wrote:
>
>
> TONE OF MY MESSAGE! FAA SHOULD MANDATE A BRAS??!!??
>
I would pay good money to see that chute when it pops open.
Craig Hiers
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dick Waters Engines |
aol.com!Shelby1138(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
> Thanks to everyone concerning Mr. Waters. This is one thing that is so
> frustrating about looking at used equipment. The histories are almost always
> suspicious for one reason or another. Wentworth and some of the others are so
> efficient at parting out planes there seem to be no bargains at these places
> either.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Shelby Smith
Shelby
Give Eustace Bowhay a call, he is straight up and has some good deals
when he gets a good motor. He live in Canada, and the currency
exchange is very good for us.
250-675-4428 Blind Bay,BC
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
Tallahassee,FL
I guess tricky dicky got slammed pretty hard.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap lightening Holes |
I offer an aside to the flap spar lightening hole subject. Many builders
in the Chicagoland area are omitting the lightening holes in the W621 flap
brace upon advice from local RV guru Paul McReynolds (RV4 Grand Champion).
There is anecdotal information (reportedly from the Bakersfield Bunch) that
the brace deforms if flaps are accidentally deployed above normal flap
extension speed. In olden days before electric flaps, this was impossible
for most pilots of normal strength. With the advent of electric flaps it
is more likely. I omitted the holes under the "can't do any harm"
engineering doctrine.
Dennis 6A fuselage in jig
----------
> From: Joe Wiza <flnet.com!joe(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Flap lightening Holes
> Date: Saturday, March 22, 1997 10:08 AM
>
>
> I havent seen this question before so it must be me. How many lightneng
> holes are required on dwg for the flap spar on dwg 17. 7 or 13 in other
> words is the pattern continued 6",3",3",3" to the end of the spar????
TU
>
> Joe/wing
> joe(at)flnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com> |
Thanks Bill.
denny h.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Pneumatic Avery tool adapter |
Dirk,
Regarding your friend's tool. Would it be possible to get a sketch or
photo of this little gem? It would be very helpful in reproducing it, if
it is OK with him to copy it.
Thanks,
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pressure guage (spelling bee chatter) |
>Please, please people. For the RV-List Archive's sake please learn how to
>spell
>G-A-U-G-E. I just don't believe this continued ignorance. This particular
>word is even used in Matt's List Usage Guidelines posted here monthly. Do
>you guys ever read it?
>
>-GV
I've been using a simple workaround for *common* spelling mistakes during
searches.
For example, when searching for a gauge most likely it's for a particular
type. If so, one can simply search for "fuel pressure g" or such. Searches
should then yield valuable results, even with the incorrect spelling of gauge.
I hope this helps ease the continued frustration with the "ignorance" of
"fellow" listers. Fortunately, most are tolerant and helpful instead of
condescending.
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel pressure guage location |
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com (Cecil T Hatfield) |
Gee wish I was a smart as GV is.
Must be great.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
Dave:
>Does anybody know of any place to get a large color poster of an RV for my
>workshop wall to show visitors what this thing will look like when finished.
>The line drawing sent with the plans just doesn't do justice to these
>beautiful planes!
I cut the pages out of old RV calendars for this purpose. They are not
HUGE, but big enough.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
installing electrical and avionics
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel pressure guage location |
aol.com!Vanremog(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
>
> << Is it OK to tap into the restricted fuel return line to pick up fuel
> pressure reading for a wet-type guage? >>
>
> Please, please people. For the RV-List Archive's sake please learn how to
> spell
> G-A-U-G-E. I just don't believe this continued ignorance. This particular
> word is even used in Matt's List Usage Guidelines posted here monthly. Do
> you guys ever read it?
>
> -GV
Oh oh the spelling tutor is here again. Come on GV most of us are not
typers, and I am sure a lot of us are IGNORENT...or ah IGNORIANT.
But even us IGNERONTS. don't like some smart ass telling us we are
ignorant.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PhilipR920(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Plane data sheets |
Brian,
The Newsletter referred to is the "VANS AIR FORCE TRI- STATE WING" quarterly
publication. The rudder trim system was described in the October '96 issue.
I'm not familiar with the Piper system, but the system described uses springs
attached to the passenger side rudder petals to effect trin. The springs are
biased by a control on the panel.
Suggest you contact Jim Cone who is editor of the aforementioned newsletter
and designer of the rudder trim system for more information and subscription
to the newsletter. I believe back issues are available. A subscription
requires a nominal donation of $5.00. Heck of a good deal!
Jim's telephone number is: (314) 928-8703 or e-mail jamescone(at)aol.com.
Phil Rogerson
6AQ 60057
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel pressure guage location |
Hey GV,
I wonder if your gauge is more accurate than my guage?
Chris May
RV-4 N595CM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Back rivet fuselage top skin? |
My RV-6Q instructions say to rivet the fuselage top skin from the
outside (bucker inside the fuselage). I'm considering back riveting
the top skin (rivet gun on the inside of the fuselage, while helper
holds small flat bucking plate on factory head outside the fuselage).
My main reason for considering this is my helper's inexperience with
riveting/bucking and lack of arm strength.
I found only one reference to back riveting the fuse top skin in the
archives. What's the experience of the list members -- back rivet or
flush head rivet from the outside?
Thanks,
Tim
---------------------
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net
-----------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Back rivet fuselage top skin? |
Yes Tim, backriveting the fuselage skins does work fine. It was done by
afriend on an RV-6a and looks just fine. He and his wife; she with the
least experience did the bucking.
Also I backriveted the top skin rivets on the aileron gap seal, which
works great. Perhaps that's old info, but I have never seen that as a
suggestion, and offer it as a fast workable method to displace the pop
rivets that are suggested by some instructions.
Ron Vandervort, RV6Q, rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us
Seattle area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Back rivet fuselage top skin? |
Yes Tim, backriveting the top fuselage skins worked fine on an RV6a of a
friend of mine.
Also backriveting the top skin rivets on the aileron gap seal works great
It nicely displaces those pop-rivets offered by some instructions.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Kelley <III(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | F.Y.I. Found bandsaw bade repair kit |
Sometime back someone posted that they were using a inexpensive bandsaw
repair kit. But they were unable to remember where they purchased it. Just
by chance I found one!
In case you are intrested, It is sold by Woodcraft. Part # 123195 is the
complete kit @ $29.99 minus the map torch. They also sell a map torch part
#123198 @ $29.99. The add stated it will work with map, butane, or propane
gas. You can order and request a catalog from their web page.
Woodcraft
www.woodcraft.com
1 (800) 225-1153
James Kelley
(Working on fuse, RV6A)
72466.1355(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rvbildr(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Back rivet fuselage top skin? |
Hi again Tim,
My wife and teenage son riveted my fuselage skins while I bucked them
inside. Neither of them were experienced riveters and it came out real
nice. I used the flush set with the rubber cup over it from Avery's. I
also use Juno for e-mail because it has a spell checker feature. Keeps
the spell sheriff off my back.
Mal rvbildr(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rvbildr(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Travel |
Tim,
Do you have a copy of Frank Justice's fuselage manual? He says you'll
probably have to do quite a bit of filing to get proper travel, both up
and down.
Mal rvbildr(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Back rivet fuselage top skin? |
My wife riveted all our 6's skins while I bucked. This included the turtle
deck skins. The skins all turned out great. I didn't back rivet any skins,
other than the stiffener angles, with no regrets.
Rick McBride
RV6 N523JC
RV8 80027
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Cimino <jcimino1(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Carrythrough bulkhead |
Bill,
I received a "care package" on Friday with the four bulkhead pieces.
These are reflutted and markde something like rfwd, lfwd, ect., they seem to
be correct, can I use them or will I get a letter next week?
>
>As the RV-8 crew knows, the original carrythrough bulkheads were fabricated
>with the flutes in an incorrect position. We notified everyone and finally
>sent new bulkheads components out. As luck would have it, a vendor
>prepared these parts and wrapped them and they were incorrectly matched. As
>a result, we are having to recall these components. This only applies to
>those persons who received a care package within the last week containing 4
>bulkheads plus other miscelaneous parts. We know exactly who has these
>parts and have sent letters to everyone affected.
>
>A letter was mailed on Thursday asking those persons to return only the 4
>bulkheads to us with the number marked on the outside *RA8B* and include
>your name. We will sort throught all the parts and return the correct 4
>parts. We will credit your account for the shipping charges to return the
>parts.
>
>This recall does not apply to those persons who have received their wings
>within the last 2 to 4 weeks. Only if you received a box approximately
>4"x4"x26" with 4 bulkhead components plus an assortment of other items.
>
>Thanks for your patience. We regret the inconvenience this wing kit has
>caused and are doing our best to insure the fuselage kit will not have
>similar problems. Bill Benedict, GM
>
>
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn80039
"http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5771"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Sportcraft antennas |
I have checked the archives looking for wing tip antennas for comm. Has
anyone listening installed one on their RV with strobes on the wing tip? Are
you happy with it?
I noted the reference to "Sport craft" antennas, who handles these?
Has anyone sucessfully made their own comm antennas for wing tips?
denny h. RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Darrell L. Anderson" <d.l.anderson(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pressure guage (spelling bee chatter) |
>Please, please people. For the RV-List Archive's sake please learn how to
>spell
>G-A-U-G-E. I just don't believe this continued ignorance. This particular
>word is even used in Matt's List Usage Guidelines posted here monthly. Do
>you guys ever read it?
>
>-GV
Also:
gage (gaj) noun & verb Variant of GAUGE.
Not condescending, he's just giving authors the opportunity to add to their (there,
they're?)
spell checker's personal dictionary. It would be easier to search the archives.
A personal pet peeve of mine:
(snipped from MS Bookshelf)
chafe (chaf) verb chafed, chaf.ing, chafes
verb, transitive
1. To wear away or irritate by rubbing.
verb, intransitive
1. To rub and cause irritation or friction
3. To feel irritated or impatient
VS....
chaff (chaf) verb chaffed, chaff.ing, chaffs
verb, transitive
To make fun of in a good-natured way; tease.
noun
Good-natured teasing; banter.
and 4. Strips of metal, foil, or glass fiber with a metal content, cut
into various
lengths and having varying frequency responses, that are used
to reflect
electromagnetic energy as a radar countermeasure. These materials,
usually dropped from aircraft, also can be deployed from shells
or rockets.
Hopefully, no one will feel chafed by this, as I am only chaffing. :-)
D. Anderson
RV-4 wings...someday
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ayrton(at)spider.connectivity.net.au (Philip Ayrton) |
| Subject: | RV-4 sliding canopy mod. |
I would like to build a sliding canopy for my RV-4. I am currently working on
the
fuselage fitout. I have made contact with John Haehn who offers a sliding canopy
modification. Are there any other sliding canopy modifications offered by builders
that anyone is aware of?
I have approached Van to see if he would be interested in developing this
modification as a retro for completed aircraft, as I feel this would create more
interest than the "Fat-4" fuselage he previously suggested, mainly because
owners of completed aircraft could then upgrade their aircraft to something like
an RV-8 without too much expense. The other impovements would be the ability
to start and taxi in the open position, and even fly partially open in hot weather.
The danger of the canopy blowing closed in gusty weather would be eliminated
and the waterproofing problem would also be reduced.
Any thoughts or information would be appreciated.
Thanks
Phil Ayrton
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: STC for Mogas? |
<< Mark,
Perhaps I would have been clearer if I had said that raising the
compression ratio would be unwise if you wanted to run straight Mogas at
a later time. However, your suggestion of using a mixture of the two
certainly is a good idea.
Charlie Kuss >>
Charlie:
Yes, the mix is a good idea to keep to vaporlock possibility lower than with
straight mogas. I'm fairly sure mogas is OK for the lower power settings used
in cruise, however I believe the octane is marginal for takeoff & climb.
BTW, I seem to recall that the 8.5 pistons were about $35-40 cheaper for the
set, and used the same ring sets.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sportcraft antennas |
I have checked the archives looking for wing tip antennas for comm. Has
anyone listening installed one on their RV with strobes on the wing tip? Are
you happy with it?
I noted the reference to "Sport craft" antennas, who handles these?
Has anyone sucessfully made their own comm antennas for wing tips?
denny h. RV-6 >>
Hi All,
I have a Sportcraft wingtip COM antenna in my RV-3. I am happy with how it
works. I have wingtip strobes with the strobe power supply in each wingtip.
I hope some of the other people that have the Sportcraft wingtp COM antenna's
are flying now, so they can report, also.
If you contact me directly, I have arranged to have Sportcraft antennas
shipped directly from the factory at the factory price.
Jim Ayers
LesDrag(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Grant E. Young" <gyoung(at)crl.nmsu.edu> |
| Subject: | pre-built panel Q. |
Hi,
I'm nearing the end of my RV-6 project, and need to pick a company to
build my panel. I am basically choosing between Pacific Coast Avionics &
Aircraft Spruce Avionics (but others would be considered if
recommended). Aircraft Spruce seems a little cheaper, but I'm interested
in knowing if anybody on the list has any personal experience which might
help with this decision (re: quality, cost, timeliness. etc.).
Thanks in advance,
grant-
gyoung(at)crl.nmsu.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jddyess(at)crystal.cirrus.com (J D Dyess) |
| Subject: | Re: fuel pressure guage location |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | pre-built panel Q. |
I was in the Pacific Coast avionics show room and saw a fully built up
IFR panel for a glassair and a more bare VFR/Gyro panel for an RV6. I
haven't actually used or know anyone who has used their panels but do
know people who have had normal radio installations done there. The
look of the panel was great and when I started looking behind it I was
even more impressed. I don't know what made it look best but it had
this "Factory" air about it. The mountings of the innstruments were
perfect, the wires all bundled every inch with some kind of nylon rope
knot, connectors all crimped well, etc. I was impressed.
-Mike
taking left wing out of jig for dimpling
> ----------
> From: Grant E. Young[SMTP:crl.nmsu.edu!gyoung(at)matronics.com]
> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 1997 2:53 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: pre-built panel Q.
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm nearing the end of my RV-6 project, and need to pick a company to
> build my panel. I am basically choosing between Pacific Coast
> Avionics &
> Aircraft Spruce Avionics (but others would be considered if
> recommended). Aircraft Spruce seems a little cheaper, but I'm
> interested
> in knowing if anybody on the list has any personal experience which
> might
> help with this decision (re: quality, cost, timeliness. etc.).
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> grant-
>
> gyoung(at)crl.nmsu.edu
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Travel |
Tim,
This is indeed what you do. The place that the horns strike the spar flange
is quite close to the butt joint and the load here is being carried in the
spar web caps. Just file little slots until you have enough travel then
round off the corners.
Leo Davies (two slots of not identical depth in my HS spar webs)
>
>I'm installing the control stops for the elevator on my RV-6AQ.
>The preview RV-6 construction book calls for downward elevator travel
>of 25 degrees. The RV-6Q book calls for 20-25 degrees (in chapter
>15). I can get 21 degrees, then the elevator horns hit the HS-603
>spar.
>
>The only way I can see to get the full 25 degrees of travel is to
>file a small portion off the bottom of the .032 HS-603 to give the
>elevator horns greater travel. Or, I can accept the 21 degree limit.
>
>Recommendations?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Tim
>---------------------
>Tim Lewis
>RV-6AQ #60023
>San Antonio TX
>timrv6a(at)earthlink.net
>-----------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
Dear List,
I am sort of breaking my own rule about not contributing to grizzling on the
list but......
There was a recent post by GV about spelling, a well known bugbear of his.
GV is kind of an obsessive guy and spelling bothers him. Being obsessive is
not alway a bad thing, I have always found that GV's responses to the list
on technical questions are well thought out, extensively researched and
accurate. I have corresponded with him privately about some technical issues
and he has gone out of his way to be helpful including posting material
airmail to Australia which is above and beyond the call of duty. He also
puts a lot of effort into the "Yeller Pages" which is a valuable RV-list
resource.
You mightn't like his obsessionalism but the back chat is at least as
aggressive as his original spelling missive.
The RV-list is an interesting microcosm of the real world and just like the
real world sometimes it is better to sit on emotional responses. If someone
makes an emotional response it is better to let it pass than to contribute
more of the same. If it really bothers you reply to the originator not to
the list.
Sorry for the soap box.
Leo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean & Scott Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net> |
> << Mark,
> Perhaps I would have been clearer if I had said that raising the
> compression ratio would be unwise if you wanted to run straight Mogas at
> a later time. However, your suggestion of using a mixture of the two
> certainly is a good idea.
> Charlie Kuss >>
SNIPPITY SNIP SNIP SNIP>
> Charlie:
> Yes, the mix is a good idea to keep to vaporlock possibility lower than with
> straight mogas. I'm fairly sure mogas is OK for the lower power settings used
> in cruise, however I believe the octane is marginal for takeoff & climb.
>
> Check six!
> Mark
While I take a break from practicing the proper spelling of gayge let me
add to this thread...
I, like Mark, have had success running autogas.
A few years back I flew towplanes for a sailplane outfit in the desert
and we operated Piper Pawnees with the high compression version of the
O-540 (250 hp compared to the normal 235 hp) on a 50/50 mix of 100LL and
87 oct autogas. A lot was asked of these airplanes -operation at full
power pulling a load in a prolonged low-speed climb at ambient temps of
up to 115 deg F. The mix worked well.
I have operated my little Cessna 140 very successfully on straight
autogas (87 oct) for hundreds of hours -mixing with 100LL on trips
because of the inconvenience of finding autogas at airports. The engine
on this airplane will (according to Continental) run on any gasoline
above 73 oct with no lead. I was told the worst side effect was a nasty
brown residue that would cake on the inside of the intake ports. Well,
after doing a top overhaul fairly recently I can say that I did indeed
find the brown residue (I was looking for it -and any other signs of
trouble) and my response was "Is that all?" The 'deposits' were one
grade above being a just a brown stain -insignificant. In fact the
engine was as clean inside (or cleaner) than similar engines I have
worked on which were run on 100LL -they would get a lot of lead
by-product buildup in the exhaust port -so take your pick.
Another thing about this particular engine -a C-85 (along with several
other Continentals), is a propensity to stick valves when using 100LL. I
have never stuck one since running autogas. One thing that might be
helping me (in addition to running no lead) is my mixing into the fuel a
small amount (half the label directions) of Marvel Mystery Oil
religiously. I'm now sold on this stuff.
I by no means recommend running autogas in all piston aircraft engines.
However if you have an engine originally certified on 80/87, such as a
low compression O-320 it is an option you might consider. With SOME of
the high compression engines a mix is a good way to go. The little bit
of flying I got to enjoy in my -4, before I had to start rebuilding it
(It should fly again in time for OSH) was done on a mix. No problems
-with the fuel anyway (my partner had problem fast taxiing).
Alcohol -there are some ethanol proponents out there (The Vanguard
Squadron?) who I would like to hear from, but in general I stay away
from it -mostly because of its potential effects on the fuel system -not
the engine. It's easy to test autogas for alcohol content. Just get
yourself a graduated container (I use a small graduated cylinder
-chemistry type) and fill to a certain mark with WATER (say 10 ml or so)
then add the gas to another level you take note of (say another 100ml
-110 ml with the water). Now put your finger over the top and shake. The
ALCOHOL in the fuel will be 'absorbed' into the WATER -the rest of the
fuel will not. Gasoline will not mix with water (Interestingly enough
kerosene/jet fuel will -to a point). The fuel and water will have a
definite separation line, and if you now have more water than you
started with then your fuel contains alcohol (If for example you now
have 20ml of water -then your fuel is 10% alcohol). Tough huh?
As far as volatility or vapor pressure goes, autogas can have
volatilities up to TWICE that of avgas, but there is a fairly
inexpensive (~$50) tester available called a 'Hodges Volatility Tester'
(Invented by a clever Australian named, you guessed it -Hodges). It is
basically a syringe you fill with fuel, connect to a calibrated vacuum
gayge ;) and pull a vacuum on (i.e. pull out the plunger). When the fuel
'boils' in the syringe you note the reading -your measure of volatility
which will fall into a simple red or green range. The syringe and fuel
are obviously at the ambient temp -what you want (you do this on the
ramp by your plane). This tester will give an 'on the spot' indication
of whether or not the fuel will cause vapor lock regardless of mixing
with 100LL, alcohol content, seasonal mixing of fuels by suppliers, age
of the fuel, etc. If it leaks air it fails toward 'unsafe' -good. So
what do you do if the vapor pressure is too high? (bad) -You add more
100LL to the mix!(and test again if you like). Sounds complicated mabye,
but it's not really -and it could save you lotsa $$ -every gallon of
autogas used is roughly a buck saved -that's mabye $8/hour -significant.
According to the EAA's testing, one of the other additives commonly put
into autogas -MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether -or something like that)
is actually turning out to have beneficial effects in aircraft engines.
I'm not sure if they're done testing yet however.
In summary...
Autogas is a great option for some. It has been for me. Initially I had
my doubts (it is after all, MY butt up there hangin' by Bernoulli's
principle, but after 5+ years my butt is still around), and started
using autogas VERY carefully. Now it is a normal routine and I have been
able to do a LOT more flying due to decreased expense.
All you folks still clinging to 100LL better get ready for a change,
because the EPA (here in the U.S. anyway) is not going to allow the use
of any leaded fuels much longer. It's a minor miracle we still do now.
Aviation fuel has just been squeaking by the EPA due mostly to clever
lobbying by the EAA and AOPA (thanks guys). It looks increasingly like
the next generation avgas will be an 'auto fuel derivative'
I rest my case. Thanks for your patience -a very long posting.
Someone else might pick up by going into the difference between octane
rating and volatility. Octane being a measure of a fuel's rate of burn
(the higher the slower). I'm not sure how or if it is related to
volatility.
Scott
N4ZW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: pre-built panel Q. |
<< 'm nearing the end of my RV-6 project, and need to pick a company to
build my panel. I am basically choosing between Pacific Coast Avionics &
Aircraft Spruce Avionics (but others would be considered if
recommended). Aircraft Spruce seems a little cheaper, but I'm interested
in knowing if anybody on the list has any personal experience which might
help with this decision (re: quality, cost, timeliness. etc.). >>
Grant-
Have you checked with Chief Aircraft in Grants Pass, OR. They have a good
rep.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< According to the EAA's testing, one of the other additives commonly put
into autogas -MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether) is actually turning out to
have beneficial effects in aircraft engines. >>
And is, as we speak, polluting the lakes and streams of California where its
use in higher concentrations is the result of the mandated (about a year ago)
cleaner burning fuels out here in Lala Land. It has yet to seep into the
deeper aquifer, but it is just a matter of time.
One wonders if MMT (used a lot in Canada but not much in the US) is the next
one of these oxygenates to be incorporated, since the Ethyl Corporation has
just supplied EAA with 1200 gallons of auto fuel blended with MMT. Ethyl
Corp, I believe, holds the rights to MMT and stands to make a bundle. I read
that MMT leaves an orange colored combustion byproduct, but that is the limit
of my awareness. Perhaps some of the Canadian autogas running RV folks could
give us a heads up on this. JMO, but I get a sense that some of this stuff
is going to be trouble in the long run.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi,
I just finished construction of the RV-6 seatback, and seat back brace
assemblies. I am ready to position them and mount the hinge halves to
the floor. Here is my question.
How far apart do I position the seats? DWG#38, Revision 1 notes that
the seat is 1 3/4" off centerline (3 1/2" apart), the video says 4 1/4"
to 4 1/2", and the plans show a dimension of 4 1/2".
Which one is correct?
Thanks in advance,
Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bumflyer(at)aol.com |
An excellent comment Leo. Right on.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Rozendaal <dougr(at)netins.net> |
I have been flying with Mogas for about 6 years, mostly in a Cessna 195 as
well as a BE-18, T-6, and a Stearman, I have a good friend in the petroleum
pipeline business and he operates a gasoline terminal with a fuel lab and he
has been running Mogas in an 0-320 in his cherokee for many hundreds of
hours. I know of no problems. I have heard lots of coffee shop talk and
lots of hanger stories but I know of no problems in low compression motors.
Further, fuel quality has steadily increased in recent years due to federal
requirements. The fuel today is considerably less volatile than it was 5
years ago.
One comment about blending to reduce vapor pressure, my understanding is the
vapor pressure of a blend is the vapor pressure of the most volatile
component. Blending may help vapor lock but only because there is less
volatile fuel to vaporize, not because you can increase the vapor pressure
by blending.
Many mechanics will tell you that mogas motors won't last or need more parts
at overhaul, but most mechanics work for an FBO who sell fuel.
Airplane people are for the most part, hard-headed. It took more than 20
years to widely accept ashless dispersant oil in aviation. Why would we
accept fuel any faster?
Someone asked about the Van Gards. Those guys love the booze(ethanol). They
use the straight stuff, no gasohol for them. They run real hopped up O-320s
and they really don't like to run 100LL. They say it makes their motors
dirty. They have special coating in their fuel tank and seals etc., but it
works real good for them. Smells great too.
Like it or not we will all be flying on Mogas real soon because the new
avgas spec will be nothing more than premium unleaded car gas with special
handling requirements, and a healthy upcharge I'm sure....
looking for a -4
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)netins.net
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
I've followed the threads regarding fitting the spinner rear bulkhead a
small amount higher than the plans call for (approx 1/4") to allow for
an eventual drop of the engine after time. The end result of course is
the spinner ends up being where it should with regards to the top
cowling. Does this condition also effect the 6A's with their nose
gear. We have a local RV4 driver whose spinner dropped 1/4" off its
original alignment. He's now in the process of shimming his engine back
up to where it originally was. I don't believe he acounted for any drop
during original construction.
I've looked through the archives but had trouble determining if this
situation is specific to only the tail dragger community.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
Glenn & Judi wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I just finished construction of the RV-6 seatback, and seat back brace
> assemblies. I am ready to position them and mount the hinge halves to
> the floor. Here is my question.
>
> How far apart do I position the seats? DWG#38, Revision 1 notes that
> the seat is 1 3/4" off centerline (3 1/2" apart), the video says 4 1/4"
> to 4 1/2", and the plans show a dimension of 4 1/2".
>
> Which one is correct?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Glenn Gordon
Just set them in place and make sure they clear everything when theyre
moved or rotated on the hinge and set them there. The idea here is to
make sure they fit with everything else installed in the cockpit.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Auto-gas/alcohol |
I always thought the reason for putting a small amount of water in the
gas to be tested was to see if the water was absorbed by the alcohol
mixed in the gas, and therefore not showing up after the shake test. If
the amount of water remained the same, then it was a safe bet there was
no alcohol in the gasoline. Isn't that why you add alcohol mixtures to
a fuel tank suspected of having water in it, so the water will be
absorbed into the fuel/alcohol mixture and burn off with the fuel? I
guess I learn something new everyday, wether I know it, or not?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: pre-built panel Q. |
Grant,
Why not spend a little time and research and do the panel your self? You
will have a much better sense of accomplishment when your done. And you can
spend the money you saved on more gizmo's.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: elevator trim |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Yohannes,
Since you already have the MAC servo, go with it. It will give you
much more accurate control, with less backlash than you will get from the
manual cable.......
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
On Thu, 20 Mar 97 15:27:02 UT "Yohannes Kayir"
writes:
>
>Building an RV-4, fuselage in the jig and getting ready to order the
finishing
>kit. Please advise on electric vs manual ELEVATOR
>trim (bought the electric MAC, having second thoughts...). Thanks in
>advance.
>
>Long-time lurker.
>
>Yohannes Kayir
>Pensacola, Fl.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net> |
I'm starting to recieve double messages again. Anyone
else having same problem?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Gottschalk <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Frederick RV Forum |
Listers,
The time for the Eighth Annual Frederick MD EAA Chapter 524 RV Forum is
approaching rapidly, scheduled for Saturday, April 12 and Sunday April 13.
For those that have pre-registered, the forum schedule will be mailed
today. Anyone interested in attending that has not already registered, Call
Dave Liston at (301) 831-3008, or send e-mail to me. There is a program
schedule posted on the Chapter 524 Web page: http://www.kis.net/eaa524.
Gene Gottschalk
RV6, Fuselage skeleton in jig, dimpling and countersinking!
geneg(at)oz.kis.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: pre-built panel Q. |
<< gyoung(at)crl.nmsu.edu
>>
Grant:
My company can also do this for you. Could you send me a list or description
of what you want installed? I'll get you a bid ASAP after that.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Double messages |
mcomeaux wrote:
>
>
> I'm starting to recieve double messages again. Anyone
> else having same problem?
Yup. Me too.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowl Fitting |
>
>I've followed the threads regarding fitting the spinner rear bulkhead a
>small amount higher than the plans call for (approx 1/4") to allow for
>an eventual drop of the engine after time. The end result of course is
>the spinner ends up being where it should with regards to the top
>cowling. Does this condition also effect the 6A's with their nose
>gear. We have a local RV4 driver whose spinner dropped 1/4" off its
>original alignment. He's now in the process of shimming his engine back
>up to where it originally was. I don't believe he acounted for any drop
>during original construction.
>
>I've looked through the archives but had trouble determining if this
>situation is specific to only the tail dragger community.
>--
>Chet Razer
>crazer(at)egyptian.net
>
Chet,
As I understand it, the drop is attributed to the settling of the rubber
Lord mounts. The landing gear configuration should have no effect on this.
Van's indicated that the drop will also be related to how long the engine
has been hung prior to fitting the cowl. If you fit the cowl the day it is
hung, the drop will be the greatest. My best guess at this whole thing (on
an RV-6A) was to leave the engine hanging for a month and then fit the cowl
about 3/16 low. Only time will tell how things settle.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele (N506RV)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cheryl Sanchez <csanchez(at)world.std.com> |
| Subject: | Re: pre-built panel Q. |
>I'm nearing the end of my RV-6 project, and need to pick a company to
>build my panel.
>grant-
>
>gyoung(at)crl.nmsu.edu
>
>
I found that doing the instrument panel has been one of the
most fun parts of the job so far. I did everything myself. It's all
done now except I'm still finishing the wiring. By doing it myself
I know just what quality of parts were used and how it all works.
And like everything else, it's been a great learning experience.
Cheryl Sanchez
csanchez(at)world.std.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: Double messages |
I have been a culprit in the double messages thingy.=20
=20
If I do a reply, I automatically send two messages to the list.=20
=20
My way around this right now is to do a "reply to sender" only and that=20
takes care of it.=20
=20
It looks like the list is adding its own name in the "TO:" field and=20
some mail systems respond automatically to all addressees in the TO:=20
field.=20
=20
Ken=20
RV6A Flying=20
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
If I remember correctly from chem E the formula for vapor pressure is
the partial pressure of each substance times the molar quantity so a
50/50 blend would definitely have a lower vapor pressure than the most
volatile component.
-Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Build your own: panels & etc. |
>
>
>>I'm nearing the end of my RV-6 project, and need to pick a company to
>>build my panel.
> I found that doing the instrument panel has been one of the
>most fun parts of the job so far. I did everything myself.
I had a great time doing my panel, too. I just got some poster board from
my friendly office supply store and cut it to the exact shape of the panel.
I then stuck instrument cut-outs (copied from the Aircraft Spruce catalog)
all over the place (again and again and again) until I had the layout I
thought I would like to look at for the next 5000 hours. I looked at and
took photos of a LOT of panels over the years and then thought up a lot of
what I wanted. I love it when people look at my panel and ask "Wow....who
did your panel?" (Or as a doctor friend said: "Very sanitary, very sanitary."
Some things I did: (STRICKLY my own prejudices; may not apply to you <-
flame disclaimer.....)
1. the airspeed indicator placed near the top left of the
panel/flight instrument group. Most traffic patterns are left turn patterns
and a glance from looking into the left turn is shortest to the left upper
panel to check airspeed.
2. place the mag/starter switch near the hand NOT running the
throttle. Makes jockying the throttle around while starting much easier.
3. instrument groups: my engine instruments are to the left of the
main flight instruments, and non-engine instruments (g-meter, voltameter,
etc) on the right.
4. plan and arrange the instruments so the panel LOOKS GOOD. I have
seen some panels that look like, when an instrument was bought, it was just
stuck where there was room left.
5. If you do it yourself (NOT hard), and it looks really cool,
you'll like it better than one someone else thought of....and it will be
what YOU wanted it to be.
I also spent several (hundred) hours just sitting in my new airplane
so I knew where everything was: instruments, vent knobs, canopy handle, etc.
so it was familiar once I started flying. It became a comfortable place and
I could point to things, grab knobs etc. with my eyes closed. Besides, it
was FUN!!! I had to constantly clean the spit from the inside of the canopy
from making engine noises, though..........
Michael
RV-4 232 SQ
mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin lane <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | crowbar OV circuit (HELP!) |
while ordering parts from digi-key I found out that they no longer stock
HS-10-ND,( the bi-lateral trigger switch 10 vdc do-35) and their tech
support had no substitute. I am just ordering from someone elses invoice
and know enough about electronics to be dangerous. Will other catalogs
carry this or a substitute? The Mouser catalog doesn't list trigger swts.
kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Double messages |
> RV-List message posted by: Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough)
>
>I have been a culprit in the double messages thingy.
Ken: I just got a double message about your double messages. Talk to Matt
about a fix.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <DougR(at)netins.net> |
I stand corrected, the number I was thinking about was flash point.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
Dougr(at)netins.net
http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
----------
> From: Michael Angiulo <MICROSOFT.com!mikeang(at)matronics.com>
> To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Autogas
> Date: Monday, March 24, 1997 11:08 AM
>
>
> is the
> vapor pressure of a blend is the vapor pressure of the most volatile
> component>
>
> If I remember correctly from chem E the formula for vapor pressure is
> the partial pressure of each substance times the molar quantity so a
> 50/50 blend would definitely have a lower vapor pressure than the most
> volatile component.
>
> -Mike
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mauser(at)Claris.COM (Richard Chandler) |
> > TONE OF MY MESSAGE! FAA SHOULD MANDATE A BRAS??!!??
>
> I would pay good money to see that chute when it pops open.
Huh, and here I was thinking about those tacky leather covers that fit over
the front of the cowl.... Hmmm, might be a neat thing for Van to put in the
accessories catalog, along with halogen lights that stick on the top of the
roll bar, and a lift kit with huge knobbie tires for the gear.
Well, it IS an off-road vehicle. :-)
--
Richard Chandler
RV-6: Garage bought and being finished, saving for tools and tail kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mauser(at)Claris.COM (Richard Chandler) |
I accidentally deleted it before I thought to reply, but will the person who
said his Smart Level was sitting in a box gathering dust be interested in
selling it? I haven't been able to find one at the local HomeBase store, and
personally, I'm picky enough to want to have a digital readout to 10ths of a
degree.
(Hell, I just replaced all the thermostats in the house with digital ones that
read to a tenth of a degree....)
--
Richard Chandler
RV-6: Garage bought and being finished, saving for tools and tail kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Dead Blow Hammer) |
I have a smart level and I have to agree with Kevin. I find a
bubble level easier to use, and plenty accurate.
I also have an angle level, which is just a gizmo about 2 1/2" square,
with 2 square sides, a dial and a weighted pointer, that you can set on
the surface and the pointer points to #degrees from level. Cost was $6
from Home Base.
For measuring angles, I actually do prefer the smart level over the
angle level. But $100 vs $6? Hmmmm.....
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernesto Sanchez" <es12043(at)utech.net> |
> << TONE OF MY MESSAGE! FAA SHOULD MANDATE A BRAS??!!?? >>
> I prefer the WonderBRAS system. You folks don't want you be flopping
around
> in turbulence now do you?
I agree and so does Clinton and he'll tell the FAA to make the change!
My E-mailer changed BRS to BRAS. All the rest still applies.
Ernesto Sanchez
es12043(at)utech.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
> How far apart do I position the seats? DWG#38, Revision 1 notes that
> the seat is 1 3/4" off centerline (3 1/2" apart), the video says 4 1/4"
> to 4 1/2", and the plans show a dimension of 4 1/2".
Make sure your seats will miss both arm rests, and make sure they
won't hit the electric flap housing (if applicable). On my 6, my
seats are about 4 1/4" apart. They clear all obstructions. They
could be maybe another 1/4" closer together without hitting the
electric flap housing brace that attaches to the center ribs of the
fuselage.
Tim
---------------------
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net
-----------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net> |
| Subject: | Re: pre-built panel Q. |
Cheryl Sanchez wrote:
>
>
> >I'm nearing the end of my RV-6 project, and need to pick a company to
> >build my panel.
>
>
>
> >grant-
> >
> >gyoung(at)crl.nmsu.edu
> >
> >
>
> I found that doing the instrument panel has been one of the
> most fun parts of the job so far. I did everything myself. It's all
> done now except I'm still finishing the wiring. By doing it myself
> I know just what quality of parts were used and how it all works.
> And like everything else, it's been a great learning experience.
>
> Cheryl Sanchez
> csanchez(at)world.std.com
I think you'll find that the labor quoted by the various avionics
companies will be very high. Most seem to want to really stuff your
panel.
I got one quote for $10K total cost. The cost of avionics is not always
the cheapest either.
Ed Cole
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ve7fp(at)jetstream.net (Ken Hoshowski) |
Glenn and Judy asked "where do we mount the seat back hinges?"
If you have the tip up canopy you should measure the dimensions (width) at
the back bottom, inside of the canopy, making sure that the seat backs will
not impede the canopy when you are closing it. When I am closing my canopy
I must make sure that I bring it straight down at the back or it has a
tendency to hook on the edge of the seat back angle. I also cut my seat
backs down a couple of inches. Makes it a lot easier to get sports bag in.
If I have not made this clear, please e mail direct.. My drawings are in
the hanger and I have been flying 3 years so don't remember the part
numbers.
Ken Hoshowski RV6 C-FKEH First flight Sept 8,1993
Editor, Western Canada RVator
ve7fp(at)jetstream.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mauser(at)Claris.COM (Richard Chandler) |
How much do Parachutes regularly run? And those of you who have them, aren't
you required to have them repacked on the order of every 180 days?
Are they required for flight testing? Can the be rented for just that period?
How do other people with flying RV's deal with this?
--
Richard Chandler
RV-6: Garage bought and being finished, saving for tools and tail kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jepilot(at)juno.com (J E REHLER) |
I would appreciate any comments regarding a reputable oil analysis
service/lab. Please send name, address and approximate charge to my
e-mail address or to the list if you wish to share with all. Thanks.
J. E. Rehler RV6A flying Corpus Christi, Texas
e-mail: jepilot(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Antenna Placement |
Hi folks. I've been monitoring the list for about four months but this is
my first posting.
I've got my RV-6 fuselage out of the jig and I'm fitting the top skins.
I've just finished reading the archives regarding antenna placement (took me
almost three hours!). I have a few questions that the archives didn't
answer. I thought I'd describe the conclusions I've reached regarding where
I intend to mount my antennas and see if anyone can help me avoid any mistakes!
First off, I've already finished my wing tips and they are not removeable,
so I can't mount the internal antennas in the wing tips. I don't mind the
external antennas really. I think the airplane will be plenty fast enough
for my needs regardless.
ELT - I will mount this externally on the top of the turtledeck to keep it
within the same fudelage station as the radio.
TRANSPONDER - I will mount it on the belly just aft of the firewall.
COMM - I will mount a bent whip on the belly centered just aft of the main
spar. Which bent-whip would be recommended?
NAV - This is where I become confused. I've seen mentioned in the archive
about mounting the antenna under the horizontal stabilizer. Is this mounted
in the fuselage? What type of antenna is it, the whisker-type? Where else
might I mount it and what type is recommended?
GPS - I hope to purchase a Garmin GPS195. I'd like to mount an external
antenna instead of using a portable one. Any suggestions out there for
placement and type that would work with the Garmin?
Any feedback that can be provided would be grately appreciated.
Randy Pflanzer (rfplanze(at)iquest.net) RV-6 finishing fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Double messages |
>
>I have been a culprit in the double messages thingy.=20
>=20
>If I do a reply, I automatically send two messages to the list.=20
>=20
>My way around this right now is to do a "reply to sender" only and that=20
>takes care of it.=20
>=20
>It looks like the list is adding its own name in the "TO:" field and=20
>some mail systems respond automatically to all addressees in the TO:=20
>field.=20
>=20
>Ken=20
>RV6A Flying=20
Sorry Ken:
Got 2 of these one clean and the one above with screwy coding
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Smart Levels |
>
>will the person who said his Smart Level was sitting in a box gathering
>dust be interested in
>selling it? I haven't been able to find one at the local HomeBase store,
>and personally, I'm picky enough to want to have a digital readout to
>10ths of a degree.
Richard:
The reason that you are having difficulty finding a Smart Level is because
it is no longer being manufactured. It has been replaced by the Smart Tool.
If the guy with one gathering dust does not want to sell Dynamite Tool Co.
of Bohemia, NY has approximately 70 pieces left that they will sell
together with 2 foot rail for $70 plus shipping charges. Speak with Brian
at (800) 640-8665.
Courtesy of a recent thread on the GlaStar Net.
John Top #5372
(619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
Okay, here is my two cents worth regarding smart levels.
I am working on an RV-6 project. I have not had the chance yet to use
my smart level on it. However I am looking forward to using my smart
level to help when the time comes.
Now, speaking out of experience......
After having been involved in the rigging of a couple of Stearmans, one
with a bubble level and one with a smart level, I would choose the smart
level any day. Being able to measure to within 1/10th of a degree not
only allows you to rig accurately, but it allows you to rig confidently
by eliminating as much measurement inaccuracy as is possible.
Now I am well aware that people have been rigging airplanes using using
bubble levels since the days of Kittyhawk, but which do you think is the
better rigged airplane?
Airplane A: Flew hands off on the first flight. Rigged with a smart
level.
Airplane B: Flew pretty good on the first flight but needed some
tweaking here and there to eliminate a heavy wing or a slight yaw.
or even this one....
Airplane C: Flew hands off on the first flight. Rigged with a bubble
level.
I would still feel confident that airplane A is still the most
accurately rigged.
Really getting to the point here, I can't see any reason you wouldn't
wan't the accuracy that is available.
Stepping down from the soap box,
-Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
It sound like you are a LONG way from needing a parachute.
Don't buy one till you need it unless you find one at a real good price.
New ones run in the 900 to 1200 dollar range.
Consider any chute to be a 25year life time item and prorate the cost
over that time frame and pay accordingly for a used one. Make sure
you don't buy one with a nice new container and some junk chute inside.
It is what's inside that counts.
Yes, they legally have to be repacked each 120 days.
It costs me $25.00 per repack, but I expect that is lower cost than
most places charge now.
You might be able to rent one from some skydive center if they
have some extra pilot rigs around. You may be able to borrow one
for the first few flights from some acro pilot.
No they are not required for test flying. An RV is really not very
'experimental' as there are 1500 plus flying. Therefore, a parachute
is not really needed for an RV. It might be if you are going to do some serious
aerobatics with it or during spin testing.
I used one on the first 20 hrs or so because I have one. I also did a bunch
of spin tests, etc.
Herman (170+ skydives a long time ago, now flying Advanced acro in Pitts)
dierks(at)austin.ibm.com
> How much do Parachutes regularly run? And those of you who have them, aren't
> you required to have them repacked on the order of every 180 days?
> Are they required for flight testing? Can the be rented for just that period?
> How do other people with flying RV's deal with this?
> Richard Chandler
> RV-6: Garage bought and being finished, saving for tools and tail kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-6 Seats (again) |
Hi,
After reading the last batch of replys regarding distance between the
seats on the RV-6 tip-up, I am still a bit puzzled.
I measured the distance between F-657 L&R across F-605. I measured 35
5/8".
35 5/8" minus two seat back width's (16" ea) = 3 5/8".
3 5/8" is not enough distance apart to allow space to remove F-641 for
inspection.
Should I trip back F657 L&R?
Thanks again,
Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
I am not sure if the are required for flight testing, or just for
Aerobatic flight.
I am responding to this thread for another reason....
During college I had a weekend job flying skydivers. They had a
military backpack chute as the pilot's rig. Very uncomfortable. Later
they got a chute called a Softie. It was great. Military surplus
chutes are usually available fairly cheap. When I am ready to fly my
plane, I won't think twice about spending the $$ on the Softie.
-Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
Several comments on this.
For rigging a RV, you don't really need a smart level.
I found that I could get a more accurate reading with a bubble
level. Your eye can easily detect .1 degree difference on the level.
Try it and you will see.
The Smart level is nice if you can't get to some area and on the
controls. But a simple Sears gravity type protractor works just
as well on the controls.
With respect to 'flying hands off', the trailing edge bends
on the RV ailerons is the major factor on how RV's fly and the
smart level will not help how your ailerons are built.
Herman
> (stuff deleted)
> After having been involved in the rigging of a couple of Stearmans, one
> with a bubble level and one with a smart level, I would choose the smart
> level any day. Being able to measure to within 1/10th of a degree not
> only allows you to rig accurately, but it allows you to rig confidently
> by eliminating as much measurement inaccuracy as is possible.
>
> Stepping down from the soap box,
> -Glenn Gordon
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com> |
> >
> Scott wrote
>
> I have operated my little Cessna 140 very successfully on straight
> autogas (87 oct) for hundreds of hours -mixing with 100LL on trips
> because of the inconvenience of finding autogas at airports. The engine
> on this airplane will (according to Continental) run on any gasoline
> above 73 oct with no lead.
Thanks for the info. I think that I would prefer to use 92-93 octane
automotive
hi-test rather than 87 octane. I have a friend who is a petro-chemical
engineer. He says to always start with the best gasoline "stock"
(base gas with little or no additives used to raise octane- like
tetraethal lead) Current unleaded auto hi-test is
a better stock base than regular auto fuel. Mixing this with 100 low
lead will reduce the percentage of lead as compared to straight 100
low lead. The lead from the av gas will actually improve the octane of
the auto hi-test, sort of a best of both worlds.
Cleaner burning, less lead fouling and CHEAPER!!
> Another thing about this particular engine -a C-85 (along with several
> other Continentals), is a propensity to stick valves when using 100LL. I
> have never stuck one since running autogas.
It's a funny thing, twenty years ago cars used to have lead induced
valve sticking. Not anymore, since the advent of no lead fuels. When
low/no lead gas was introduced in the mid 1970's, all sorts of dire
predictions were made about its effects on valve seats and guides.
Most (I didn't say all) of it turned out to be hot air.
>
>
>
>
>
> As far as volatility or vapor pressure goes, autogas can have
> volatilities up to TWICE that of avgas, but there is a fairly
> inexpensive (~$50) tester available called a 'Hodges Volatility Tester'
>
> I know about Hodges testers, but it's good you mentioned it.
>
> According to the EAA's testing, one of the other additives commonly put
> into autogas -MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether -or something like that)
> is actually turning out to have beneficial effects in aircraft engines.
> I'm not sure if they're done testing yet however.
>
> I haven't heard about this until now. How about some more details Scott?
Thanks for the great and informative reply.
Charlie Kuss
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James & Mary Mc Phee <bluegum(at)ihug.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Ivo prop-rv-6 |
Jim,
I was interested in your comments on the IvoProp. We are developing an
installation based on the Subaru @ 200 - 210 HP and are currently seeking
both a ground adjustable and in flight adjustable 3 or 4 blade prop. How
can I get more info and/or in touch touch with the Company?
>
James Mc Phee RV-6 20334 ZK-MRV 305 Hrs Flying
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
>
> Several comments on this.
> For rigging a RV, you don't really need a smart level.
> I found that I could get a more accurate reading with a bubble
> level. Your eye can easily detect .1 degree difference on the level.
> Try it and you will see.
......However, the Smart Level made locating the horizontal and vertical
stabs. a breeze. Throw away the shims and strings, and just level the
horizontal stab. until the Smart level reads the same angle on both the
left and right spar (about 2.6 %, I remember). Do the same for the
vertical stab .... no playing around trying to measure where the centerline
of the aft spar is, just lay the Smart Level on each side and adjust for
equal readings.
This gets both stabs within 0.1 degree of vertical, well within
tolerances, shimless and stringless. Bubbles are great for vertical and
horizontal, but become a pain in the %&^ when you want to set other angles
accurately.
If you switch the Smart Level to it's Percent mode, you can
actually get a resolution that is approx. 10% better than 0.1 degree - for
the mathematically challenged, 900 units per right angle in degrees mode
and 1000 units per right angle in percent mode :^)
... Gil (I love my Smart Level) Alexander
RV6A, #20701 Built RST Marker Beacon Rx. (3 hrs.), working on RST Audio
panel/intercom.
-------------------------------------------------------
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cheryl Sanchez <csanchez(at)world.std.com> |
>During college I had a weekend job flying skydivers. They had a
>military backpack chute as the pilot's rig. Very uncomfortable. Later
>they got a chute called a Softie. It was great. Military surplus
>chutes are usually available fairly cheap. When I am ready to fly my
>plane, I won't think twice about spending the $$ on the Softie.
>
>-Glenn Gordon
>
Where can one get one of these?
Cheryl Sanchez
csanchez(at)world.std.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNES_ERIC(at)tandem.com |
| Subject: | Forward from Vans: When to drill out a rivet? |
Thought this might benefit some newbies (like me). I had/have a couple
bad rivets, including the infamous -5 on the HS bearing hinge bracket
(411?), where the head was too small (I did the remaining 5 rivets on
the bracket with -6's, and they turned out fine).
I decided to drill out the -5, since the bracket is steel and the hole
won't elongate as easily as if it was aluminum.
Also, I "tipped", then drilled out, then "tipped" again, 1 of the 4
rivets holding on the outboard HS hinge bracket (413?). The second time
the hole was not visible, so per Tom's advice I'm going to leave it.
Hope this helps someone with these bad rivet judgement calls.
EB #80131 (Empennage)
------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT --------
SENT 03-24-97 FROM SMTPGATE (76455.1602(at)CompuServe.COM)
Most of the rivets that you are putting between the ribs and spars are there to
primarily hold things till the skin rivets are installed... thus the phrase
"stressed skin construction"... the skin will ultimately bear the loads.
The rivet height and diameter specs are MINIMUMS. Therefore you should try to
meet or exceed them.
BUT, the longer the rivet, the more likely it is to "tip"... on setting... the
shorter, the less likely.
There are rules of thumb on tipped rivets, if the edge of the hole that the
rivet goes through, is NOT visible, then it is preferable to leave the rivet.
Drilling usually makes the rivet worse.
You WILL get better at riveting.. until then, select the shortest rivet you can
get away with for each application.
tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
I think both sides are correct - you don't NEED a digital Smart Level,
but it sure makes things easier. It's just a question of whether you
think the convenience is worth the extra cost or not. I bought it mainly
for setting incidence angles, because I didn't want to mess around with
shims and strings.
I paid $79.99 for mine 2 yrs ago including a 24" rail, but good bubble
levels aren't cheap either. I did not have a good bubble level, so I sort
of justified the cost by saying that the extra convenience of the Smart
Level isn't really costing me $80 - just the difference between $80 and
what I would have paid for a good bubble level. Also I'm young and will
use it 40 or 50 years (I hope), and this RV-4 will probably not be the
last airplane I build.
The first thing I did when I got it was check it's accuracy and
repeatability because I wanted to see if this thing was for real or just
a gimmick. First, it has to be calibrated, and there are two ways this
can be done. "Reset" involves a simple end for end calibration and takes
about 30 seconds to do. You just set it on any surface, level or not,
let it sit for 15 sec., push the reset button, then turn it end for end
and repeat. This should be done once a day. "SuperSet" is an 8 step
procedure where you calibrate end for end horizontally and vertically,
base down and flipped over. This should be done whenever you use it in a
very different temperature range from when it was last superset, or if
you drop it.
After doing the superset calibration I checked it for repeatability and
accuracy. Laying it on different surfaces and noting the angle (diplayed
to 0.1 degree), then flipping and turning it around several times to
confuse it and resetting on the same surface, always resulted in the same
reading as before. To check accuracy I used a plumb bob and set the
level vertically in a simple fixture, close to the string but not
touching it. It showed 90.0 from horizontal. I checked it horizontally
on my jigged wing spar, which was leveled with a transit, and it was
accurate there as well, though I realize this test isn't as good as the
vertical one.
Bottom line: the Smart Level works as advertised. Whether it's worth the
cost is a personal decision.
Bob Reiff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Smart Level Availability |
Someone said the Smart Level has been discontinued. I got to wondering
why, since it seems to me to be a pretty decent product. So I called the
manufacturer, Macklanburg-Duncan of Oklahoma City, 1-800-762-7853, and
was told that it was discontinued in Jan 1996 and replaced with an
improved version called the Smart Tool Angle Sensor. Suggested Retail
Price is the same as the old one - $109.99 (street price should be less -
I paid $80 for the Smart Level module and 24" rail). The changes are:
1) In addition to the digital display with 0.1 degrees resolution, it
now has a beeper to indicate level and plumb.
2) A simpler SuperSet calibration procedure.
3) It is now repairable. The old one was welded shut.
4) For the same price you now have a choice of a 6" module which can be
inserted into a rail (purchased separately in various lengths) or
permanently mounted in a 24" rail. The old one was available only as the
module with separate rail.
If you call them they can tell you who sells it in your area.
Bob Reiff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov> |
I have a complete seat pack emergency parachute for sale for $500.
Parainnovators, never been used! It fits nicely between the seat back
and the spar in an RV-4. I've carried it in the past on special
occasions. Reply off list if you're interested.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: oil analysis |
J E REHLER wrote:
>
>
> I would appreciate any comments regarding a reputable oil analysis
> service/lab. Please send name, address and approximate charge to my
> e-mail address or to the list if you wish to share with all. Thanks.
>
> J. E. Rehler RV6A flying Corpus Christi, Texas
> e-mail: jepilot(at)juno.com
I think Aviation Consumer did a write up on this within the past year or
so. Their number: 800-424-7887
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Smart Level & other Digital Doodads |
Hi all,
Just a word about "specious precision".
I was told my new whizzo EGT could present exhaust gas temps accurate to one
degree. What they didn't tell me (but being in the 'puter game, I knew) was
that the probes aren't anywhere near that accurate.
I'm not knocking digital stuff just pointing out that "accurate to 0.1 degree or
percent" is hooey.
A long level is a good level.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Almost ready to start on the wings
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin lane <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowl Fitting |
A. He's now in the process of shimming his engine back
>up to where it originally was. I don't believe he acounted for any drop
>during original construction.
>
>I've looked through the archives but had trouble determining if this
>situation is specific to only the tail dragger community.
(gosh, the pilots who really know how to land a plane! :=)
Tom Green pointed out that I had installed an extra washer in the upper
mounts(bad case of RTFI), but, decided that if in the future I wanted to
shim the prop up a bit I could simply remove them. This would be
significantly easier than adding a washer to those lower mounts where the
bolts are trapped by the engine mount tubes. Might consider this if you
haven't gotten to this point yet. I would guess that the 6/6A discrepancy
is simply % completed, not harder landings or missions. kevin 6A
(tailwheeler currently)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Cimino <jcimino1(at)worldnet.att.net> |
This may be a stupid question, but...I am drilling the fuse center bulkhead
on the rv-8, it shows a hole for the rudder cable that must be drilled on
the left side, but doesn't say if it should also be on the right. Are there
two cables or just one. Do I need a hole on the right?
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn80039
"http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5771"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lm4(at)juno.com (Larry Mac Donald) |
Cheryl,
Here is an Outfit I had laying around. They say they are the best on
earth.
If color and style are to be judged then they might just be the best.
Strong Enterprises
a division of S.E. Inc.
11236 Satellite Blvd.
Orlando, Florida, 32837
Ph--407-859-9317
Fx--407-850-6978
Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Hanna <peterh(at)rdmcorp.com> |
Who all is going to Lakeland? Is there any plan for rv-listers to meet at
the RV dinner? I thing it would be great to sit together with name tags and
discover some of the faces that go with all these postings.
Peter Hanna - RV6 fuselage.
Peter Hanna, RDM Corp, 4-608 Weber St. North, Waterloo, Canada, N2V1K4.
B: 519-746-8483 X224, 1-800-567-6227 X224, Fax: 519-746-3317.
Email: peterh(at)rdmcorp.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Build your own: panels & etc. (Planning Software) |
For anyone who is building thier own panel a nice tool might be the "Panel
Planner" software by Interactive Solutions. It has a database of most of the
equipment you would want to use, you can desgn the panel, print it out full
size and tape it to your bare panel and evaluate before cutting any metal.
It also will produce a drilling template for the equipment you select.
The company Ph# is 208 323 8724. I saw it at AOPA 96 and it seems to a nice
package..
DkSJC
RV-4 finishing up(including panel)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Daniel Potter <dpotter(at)QNET.COM> |
If anyone is interested I have Two SMARTLEVEL SERIES 200 for sale still
in the original packaging for $35.00 each. I'll pay the postage.
Dan Potter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
Last year at Sun n Fun I bought Panel Planner version 1. The guy told me
there were problems with it so buyers would receive a free upgrade to
version 2 in about 60 days. Well, it was a long 60 days because I just
got it in the mail today, but the improvements include:
1) X-Y coordinates are now given so you can align stuff better than just
by eyeballing them on the screen.
2) Now does tiled printing to desktop printers. It prints both a color
composite (as you see it on the screen) and a hole cutting template.
3) It now prints top and side views with equipment either opaque (only
the longest/tallest equipment shows) or transparent (outlines of all
equipment is shown). You can print these on a transparency at the same
scale as the RV drawings, then overlay them to check for interference
behind the panel.
4) RV-8 panel is included.
5) It keeps a running total of cost, weight, and amperage of all
equipment added.
6) Exports to an AutoCad.dxf file for use in CAD or to drive a computer
controlled cutting device.
7) There are 2 versions now, Homebuilders and Pro. I received the Pro
version, $199 value they say (maybe the wait was worth it - I think I
paid $59 for the original).
There's probably more, but these are the main things I noticed in the few
minutes I spent with it.
You can contact them at: 208-323-8724
interacsol(at)aol.com
http://members.aol.com/interacsol/panlplnr.html
Bob Reiff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Do you know the answer to my question? |
<< Why would the edges of pure aluminum corrode before the alloy would?
Tis' a puzzelment to me.
>>
Cecil,
It has to do with the ratio of exposed surfaces. There is a great deal more
of the sacrifical pure aluminum on the surface to corrode before the little
bit of alloy at the edges and scratches gets to corrode. It is an electrical
thing. Anode size verses cathode size. $.02
Gene Francis cafgef(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randy(at)tr.reno.nv.us (Randy) |
to all,
here's the deal,Just like many others I'm looking for an 0-360 A1A core it
has to be a first run engine with varifiable logs. no prop strikes, no
junk! I am not interested in assessories. Please send all info to Darrell
at 76765.533(at)compuserve.com.
I really would appreciate some good replies, this is a cash deal.
Remember, I'm not buying a brand new engine just a first rate core for a
reasonable price.
thanx for the info.
Randy RV-6 wings
*********
Randy
*********
*********
Randy
*********
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randy(at)tr.reno.nv.us (Randy) |
| Subject: | Smart Level Availability |
Someone said the Smart Level has been discontinued. I got to wondering
why, since it seems to me to be a pretty decent product. So I called the
manufacturer, Macklanburg-Duncan of Oklahoma City, 1-800-762-7853, and
was told that it was discontinued in Jan 1996 and replaced with an
improved version called the Smart Tool Angle Sensor. Suggested Retail
Price is the same as the old one - $109.99 (street price should be less -
I paid $80 for the Smart Level module and 24" rail). The changes are:
1) In addition to the digital display with 0.1 degrees resolution, it
now has a beeper to indicate level and plumb.
2) A simpler SuperSet calibration procedure.
3) It is now repairable. The old one was welded shut.
4) For the same price you now have a choice of a 6" module which can be
inserted into a rail (purchased separately in various lengths) or
permanently mounted in a 24" rail. The old one was available only as the
module with separate rail.
If you call them they can tell you who sells it in your area.
Bob Reiff
*********
Randy
*********
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Fritz <75303.1623(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Smart Level & other Digital Doodads |
Amen to implied accuracy. Think of it this way: take a cheap, 1 inch diameter,
analog gage that 's marked off in 10 lb. increments and put a 24 inch face on it
that you can mark off in 0.01 lb increments. Think it's more accurate?
Same hold true for everything else in life: a bigger advertisement doesn't make
a better product. It can sell more of 'em, though.
Cheers
Bob Fritz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Plane data sheets |
I made a plate for the Garmin 195 that I stuck onto the instrument panel that
uses the mounting bracket without the part that clamps to the yoke.
Jim
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mauser(at)Claris.COM (Richard Chandler) |
>
> If anyone is interested I have Two SMARTLEVEL SERIES 200 for sale still
> in the original packaging for $35.00 each. I'll pay the postage.
I'm interested.
Here's my address, Where do I send the check?
Richard Chandler
9605 NE 16TH ST
VANCOUVER WA 98664-3023
--
"Wait a minute, you expect us innocent children to climb up dangerous
scaffolding and paint naked people all over a church? We'll do it!!"
-- Yakko Warner, Animaniacs
"Yeah, I've got ADD, you wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
I'm at the point of fitting my top cowl and would like to how much
relief to allow between the aft edge of the cowl and the forward edge of
the canopy forward top skin. I'd like to keep the gap as close as
possible for cosmetic and aero reasons but if the two edges contact I'm
sure vibration will damage the fiberglass. I plan on placing some shims
in place to hold the relief when I drill and cleko the fiberglass to the
hing. Any recommendations.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
| Subject: | Lakeland Meeting Place |
Atta Way Peter, I wonder if there's any way we could all meet in the RV
parking area on the first day. I'm not going to be able to make it all the
way to the banquet on the 3rd day, something about my aniversary. If there
is a lister out there who will have a real live RV in the parking area maybe
we could meet there when the show ends. Last year I was just wandering
around minding my own business and was accosted by some guy named Bob from
Nebraska. Now at the time he had sworn off Florida airshows, but maybe the
long winter has chilled his resolve. If so maybe we could use 69X as a
meeting place. If Bob is still out then maybe someone would like to
volunteer their bird as a landmark.
Just a thought,
Eric Henson
Dana Point, Ca
>>Who all is going to Lakeland?<<
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bstobbe(at)juno.com |
I am completing preliminary fitting of the F674 aft top skin, and am at
the point where you rough cut the fwd edge for an approximate fit with
the tip-up style canopy. The instructions say to measure per the plans
and leave an extra 1/2-inch for final fitting; FJs instructions say to
leave 1-inch. However, when I draw the cut line per the plans, I end up
with the aft-most portion of the cut line (at the top of the fuselage)
almost at the fwd edge of the flange of F606 (possibly meaning that my
F606 might be slightly farther fwd than the plans call for). Since I
can't tell how far the skin needs to overlap the canopy at the very top
of the fuselage, I don't know whether an extra inch will be enough under
these circumstances. If someone with a tip-up canopy can let me know how
much overlap to plan for all around, I can allow that much plus some
extra when making this rough cut. In other words, where exactly does the
back of the canopy typically end up? Does it butt up against the flange
of F606, or what?
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6; N508RV reserved
working on fuselage
finishing kit on order
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randy(at)tr.reno.nv.us (Randy) |
Hi all you RVers,
I'm a new guy to the list, this is only the second time I have responded.
it's great to be a part of such an enthusiastic group of builders and flyers.
I have noticed a real interest in all rv questions and replies.
I'm probably still a little gun shy after a couple dealings i had when i owned
an experimental bi-plane.
here is the problem, I'm still looking for a really good first run 0-360 core.
something that you would let your wife, girlfriend, or grandma fly behind.
I know this isn't an easy problem to solve, but i bet not impossible!
If anyone knows where i can get hold of one PLEASE send the info to my
expert type engine builderupper guy Darrell at 76765.533(at)compuserve.com. or
reply to me off list randy(at)tr.reno.nv.us .
assessories not important.
thanx a bunch,
cheers, randy (rv-6 drilling top wing skins)
ps. thanx for the tip on Mr. Waters.
*********
Randy
*********
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randy(at)tr.reno.nv.us (Randy) |
to all,
here's the deal,Just like many others I'm looking for an 0-360 A1A core it
has to be a first run engine with varifiable logs. no prop strikes, no
junk! I am not interested in assessories. Please send all info to Darrell
at 76765.533(at)compuserve.com.
I really would appreciate some good replies, this is a cash deal.
Remember, I'm not buying a brand new engine just a first rate core for a
reasonable price.
thanx for the info.
Randy RV-6 wings
*********
Randy
*********
*********
Randy
*********
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Phlogiston Address |
Does anyone know if Phlogiston has an e-mail address? They are not in the
Yeler Pages. I could also use their snailmail address if they don't.
Thanks,
Michael
mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: oil analysis |
<< I would appreciate any comments regarding a reputable oil analysis
> service/lab. Please send name, address and approximate charge to my
> e-mail address or to the list if you wish to share with all. >>
Howard Fenton in Tulsa is the man you want to talk to. Phone/Fax
918-492-5844 or e-mail HFentonTUL(at)aol.com. The analysis kit is sent to you
free of charge then you pay when you send it in.
Also you might be interested in the results of the Field Evaluation of
Avblend. It is available to Howard's clients for free and $5 to the rest of
you yahoos. Send a SASE with $5 to Engine Oil Analysis 7820 So. 70th East
Av, Tulsa, OK 74133
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve and Linda Martens <ex-plane(at)gpcom.net> |
| Subject: | Strobe power supply |
Please advise me on what options you've tried on mounting the power
supply for the Whelen strobe system with the singe power unit. I'm
concerned about radio interference or rather feed back heard in the
intercom from the strobe. I've experienced this in different aircraft
and it can be annoying. We would like to keep the weight as far forward
as possible. Any suggestions? By the way, this is an RV6 with the
standard canopy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ivo prop-rv-6 |
<< Jim,
I was interested in your comments on the IvoProp. We are developing an
installation based on the Subaru @ 200 - 210 HP and are currently seeking
both a ground adjustable and in flight adjustable 3 or 4 blade prop. How
can I get more info and/or in touch touch with the Company?
>
James Mc Phee RV-6 20334 ZK-MRV 305 Hrs Flying
> >>
Hello James,
Ivoprop's Phone Number is 1 (800) FOR-PROP
OR 1 (800) 367-7767
The Ivoprop Magnum prop is usually recommended as a two blade ground
adjustable prop, and a three blade electric flight adjustable prop.
Depending on the horsepower available and the ground clearance available, of
course.
Jim Ayers
LesDrag(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
I have two military surplus parachutes for sale cheap ($160 each,
shipping included). I acquired them as part of a citabria purchase that
fell through (a very very long story). They look "old school" on the
outside. Both are unpacked because I wanted to see the guts. The
parachutes inside look extremely clean. Both are circa 1960 or so.
Simple rounds with a spring loaded drogue (I sure hope I spelled that
right). They were recently repacked by a certified rigger so I have
every reason to believe that they are in fine servicable shape. If
anyone wants them just email me directly:
mikeang(at)microsoft.com
I won't need them for quite some time now and they're just taking up
space in my closet.
Thanks,
-Mike
> ----------
> From: Glenn & Judi[SMTP:anet-chi.com!flyers(at)matronics.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 24, 1997 8:17 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: PARACHUTES
>
>
> I am not sure if the are required for flight testing, or just for
> Aerobatic flight.
>
> I am responding to this thread for another reason....
>
> During college I had a weekend job flying skydivers. They had a
> military backpack chute as the pilot's rig. Very uncomfortable.
> Later
> they got a chute called a Softie. It was great. Military surplus
> chutes are usually available fairly cheap. When I am ready to fly my
> plane, I won't think twice about spending the $$ on the Softie.
>
> -Glenn Gordon
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
Peter,
My wife and I will be there.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Wig wag Lamp Flashers |
I know that there was some serious interest concerning the installation of
alternating landing lamps for purposes of traffic pattern collision
avoidance.
I have located two such devices. They are:
SSAC P/N KRD3120B is available thru Stevens Engineering 415-588-9200 for less
than $30 and measures 2.00"W x 2.00"L x .75"H.
AMPERITE P/N 12F110HDFW available thru distributors from the factory
800-752-2329 or 201-864-9503 for less than $40 and measures 2.00"W x 2.25"L
x1.50"H.
The SSAC device is rated at a switching current of 10A per contact and is
adjustable rate.
The Amperite device is rated at a switching current of 15A per contact and is
fixed at 110 flashes per minute (standard) although custom flash rates from
10 thru 120 flashes per minute are available.
Both devices have five .250" quick connect flag terminals.
Amperite also has another device called a Pulsator which will produce a
moderate glimmering effect (300 pulses per minute at a 96% duty cycle) of
lamp illumination. It is rated at 60 watts continuous and is connected in
series with the lamp.
Regards,
Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
Randy, this is like your *fifth* message asking for a O-360 in the last
several
days. Rest assured we are receiving you loud and clear.
>Subject: RV-List: lyc 0-360 core
>
>
...
>here is the problem, I'm still looking for a really good first run 0-360
>core.
>something that you would let your wife, girlfriend, or grandma fly behind.
>...
>*********
>Randy
>*********
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Wiza" <joe(at)flnet.com> |
Hello out there RVer's. Could anyone tell me if the RV6 fuselage Jig will
work for an RV6A. If not how much modification, and ball park figure for
materials.
Joe/Wing
joe(at)flnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd <tmrv6(at)pop.erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe power supply |
>
>Please advise me on what options you've tried on mounting the power
>supply for the Whelen strobe system with the singe power unit.
>
Steve and Linda,
I mounted my Whelen power supply on the inside of my firewall, high
and slightly left of center. I have no noise problems at all and I use my
strobes all of the time. The shielded wires to the strobes are routed down
the firewall, under the battery mount, down the center of the floor next to
the center left stiffener, through the center of the spar web, under the
seats and out to their respective strobe units in the wingtips. I hope that
sentence wasn't too long....
Hope this helps
Todd tmrv6(at)erols.com RV-6 N92TM flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net (Chris Brooks) |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage jig |
Joe, there is no difference in the jig between the -6 and -6A.
Chris Brooks
BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lakeland Meeting Place |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Eric:
I also plan on being at Sun 'N Fun this year. I also think that it
would be nice
for us all to get together if possible. I won't have my plane every day,
but I
expect to be there all week.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
>RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric)
>
>
>
>
>Atta Way Peter, I wonder if there's any way we could all meet in the RV
>parking area on the first day. I'm not going to be able to make it all
the
>way to the banquet on the 3rd day, something about my aniversary. If
there
>is a lister out there who will have a real live RV in the parking area
maybe
>we could meet there when the show ends. Last year I was just wandering
>around minding my own business and was accosted by some guy named Bob
from
>Nebraska. Now at the time he had sworn off Florida airshows, but maybe
the
>long winter has chilled his resolve. If so maybe we could use 69X as a
>meeting place. If Bob is still out then maybe someone would like to
>volunteer their bird as a landmark.
>
>Just a thought,
>
>Eric Henson
>Dana Point, Ca
>
>
>>>Who all is going to Lakeland?<<
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage jig |
Joe,
The RV-6 and RV-6A are exactly the same except for the gear. My
plans show both. (I have a set of plans dating back to 1992.) I just
built my jig and saw absolutely no instructions for differences in the two.
Jim Sears
RV-6A (just starting on the fuselage.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough) |
Weather permitting, my 'plane will get from Toronto to Lakeland for the=20
first day. =20
=20
Its a maroon, white and grey 6A with tip up, reg C-FGIZ.=20
=20
Sort of average quality with Air Beetle main gear.=20
=20
Dr. John Cocker (soon to fly 6A) will be with me in his Cherokee. We=20
haven't found somewhere to stay yet so may not hang around too long=20
after the show. =20
=20
Hope to see put some faces to the names.=20
=20
Ken RV6A Flying=20
=20
(there should only be one copy of this message)=20
________________________________________________________________________________
<3338567E.6F08(at)qnet.com>
| From: | lm4(at)juno.com (Larry Mac Donald) |
I would like to have one of your smart levels.
Where should I send my check?
Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage jig |
Joe Wiza wrote:
>
>
> Hello out there RVer's. Could anyone tell me if the RV6 fuselage Jig will
> work for an RV6A. If not how much modification, and ball park figure for
> materials.
>
> Joe/Wing
> joe(at)flnet.com
Yes, the same jig will work for the 6 or 6A. Notice (if you have the
plans or preview set) that the 6A plans consist of the 6 plans plus a
few sheets of differences for the 6A. The fuselage is largely the same
for either aircraft.
PatK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com> |
Daniel Potter wrote:
>
>
> If anyone is interested I have Two SMARTLEVEL SERIES 200 for sale still
> in the original packaging for $35.00 each. I'll pay the postage.
>
> Dan Potter
Dan,
I'll take the other Smart Level. Contact me by email
charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com to arrange payment, etc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trimming F674 |
juno.com!bstobbe(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
> I am completing preliminary fitting of the F674 aft top skin, and am at
> the point where you rough cut the fwd edge for an approximate fit with
> the tip-up style canopy. The instructions say to measure per the
> much overlap to plan for all around, I can allow that much plus some
> extra when making this rough cut. In other words, where exactly does the
> back of the canopy typically end up? Does it butt up against the flange
> of F606, or what?
>
> Bruce Stobbe
> RV-6; N508RV reserved
> working on fuselage
> finishing kit on order
Bruce, the forward edge of my canopy skin is 2 3/8" forward of my 606
bulkhead rivet line. My canopy underlaps the top skin about one inch at
that point. Don't worry about exact measurments you have plenty of
canopy to work with as you will see when you begin to trim and fit it.
The one thing you want is a nice round finish cut on your top aft canopy
skin. I just finished mine call if you need help
618-443-4276
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage jig |
Joe Wiza wrote:
>
>
> Hello out there RVer's. Could anyone tell me if the RV6 fuselage Jig will
> work for an RV6A. If not how much modification, and ball park figure for
> materials.
>
> Joe/Wing
> joe(at)flnet.com
I'm pretty sure the jig will work for either. I recycled my wing jig
and built the horizontal beams from ripped and then laminated 3/4"
plywood and fastened everything with drywall screws. Also I used two
large turnbuckles as a micro leveling device which allowed me to
absolutely, positively, square my firewall to the horizontal plane of
the jig. Total cost about $50 U.S. and about 2 days to build.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott M. Kuebler" <keebs(at)buffnet.net> |
| Subject: | RV-6 Canopy questions |
<3338567E.6F08(at)qnet.com> <19970326.083803.5375.0.lm4(at)juno.com>
Can someone tell me the pro's and con's between the hinged canopy and
the slide canopy? Also, has anyone ever had any problems with water
leaks from either style in rainy regions of the country?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Phlogiston Address |
| From: | ab6a(at)juno.com (ALLAN E POMEROY) |
If I remember correctly, I recently saw a post from Phlogiston on the
list. I don't recall their email address, but perhaps they will respond
also to let you know any details or answer questions. I'm sure Van's
could give you their snailmail address if they don't reply on list.
Allan Pomeroy CNY
AB6A(at)juno.com
dimensional.com!mikel(at)matronics.com writes:
>
>Does anyone know if Phlogiston has an e-mail address? They are not in
>the
>Yeler Pages. I could also use their snailmail address if they don't.
>Thanks,
>Michael
>mikel(at)dimensional.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Peter Hanna wrote:
>
>
> Who all is going to Lakeland? Is there any plan for rv-listers to meet at
> the RV dinner? I thing it would be great to sit together with name tags and
> discover some of the faces that go with all these postings.
>
> Peter Hanna - RV6 fuselage.
> Peter Hanna, RDM Corp, 4-608 Weber St. North, Waterloo, Canada, N2V1K4.
> B: 519-746-8483 X224, 1-800-567-6227 X224, Fax: 519-746-3317.
> Email: peterh(at)rdmcorp.com
Peter
I think it's a great idea, if there is one thing I like as much as
building and flying, it's talking about biulding and flying.
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
Tallahassee, fl
the airframe is now finished!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Daniel Potter <dpotter(at)QNET.COM> |
<3338567E.6F08(at)qnet.com> <19970326.083803.5375.0.lm4(at)juno.com>
Larry Mac Donald wrote:
>
>
> I would like to have one of your smart levels.
> Where should I send my check?
> Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.comsorry Larry
sold out
Dan Potter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Dixon <sdixon(at)laker.net> |
| Subject: | Trailing edge radius |
I just finished the final bend on the trailing edge of my RV-8 rudder
using the home made wood bending brake per Van's plans. Now when the
skin is clecoed to the spar, and a straight edge is placed on the skin,
about 1/2 inch before the final radius there is about 1/32 inch taper.
Is that acceptable? I can't bend it any more with the wood brake, it
just won't do it. If it needs that last little bit more bend, I'll have
to find a real bending brake. Tom at Van's says it's OK. I just wanted
the opinion of all you guys.
Thanks
Steve Dixon
sdixon(at)laker.net
RV-8 Rudder, Elevators to go
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: lyc 0-360 core |
Randy wrote:
>
>
>
> to all,
> here's the deal,Just like many others I'm looking for an 0-360 A1A core it
> has to be a first run engine with varifiable logs. no prop strikes, no
> junk! I am not interested in assessories. Please send all info to Darrell
> at 76765.533(at)compuserve.com.
>
> I really would appreciate some good replies, this is a cash deal.
> Remember, I'm not buying a brand new engine just a first rate core for a
> reasonable price.
>
> thanx for the info.
> Randy RV-6 wings
>
> *********
> Randy
> *********
>
> *********
> Randy
> *********
Randy
There is a better chance of winning the lottery then finding a first
run, great condition, good price 0360A1A. I looked for years before
I settled for an 0320, the prices are a lot better in the O320 market.
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
Tallahassee,FL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Acker <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lakeland Meeting Place |
>
> I also plan on being at Sun 'N Fun this year. I also think that it
>would be nice
>for us all to get together if possible.
>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
I'll be there too. Maybe we should all meet around Ken's plane at 11am or
so the first day, it should be easy to spot with the "C" registration .
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randy(at)tr.reno.nv.us (Randy) |
Mitch,
sorry about that, I don't really know what happened?
I just retrived my e-mail and discovered there were four more than i
intended to send. must be a wild electron somrwhere in this magical box.
my apologies my apologies my apologies my apologies!
and again sorry.
cheers, randy
*********
Randy
*********
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Fritz <75303.1623(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Wig wag Lamp Flashers |
I had a device similar to the Pulsator on a motorcycle several years ago. It
worked great in that the voltage drop was sufficient to cause a strobe-like
effect but never allowed the filiment to cool so much as to induce premature
failure. I used it on a daily 30 mile commute for three years (1.5 hours x 5
days x 50 weeks x 3 years = 1125 hours) and it was working fine when I sold the
bike.
And gadfry but it was a nuisance to the slow guy in the fast lane!
Bob Fritz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | RE: RV-List:Aircraft safety |
I was reading Feb 97 Sport Aviation and on page 64 there is an article about
the EAA/TSI Investigation Course (Van was there). Long overdue: the
FAA/NTSB folks were taught about homebuilt aircraft (of which more are being
built than factory types) and their differences from factory built.
Interesting article.
One of the statements was that a major cause of accidents in homebuilt
aircraft was modification to the fuel system (also canopy latch mechanisms
and seat belt attachments) but it did not elaborate as that was not the
purpose of the article.
We as RV builders get to pretty much figure out our own fuel system, which
may or may not be a good idea. I was wondering, since Van was at the
course, if there were specific details that came up that would help us avoid
common mistakes. The seat belt and canopy latch mechanisms for us are not
such a problem thanks to a great design, but what about that mysterious
ability to keep fuel flowing to the engine? You would think it would be
simple. In high wingers it is easier: gravity does most of the work. In
our low wing aircraft we need an active method (methods) of getting the
vapors to the sparkplugs.
There has been a lot of talk here about fuel system modifications. Hey,
Bill! Was anything discovered at the course we all could learn from?
Just wondering.......
Michael
RV-4 232 SQ
mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Helmets (was parachutes) |
I think (therefore, strickly my own opinion and subject to debate) that if
you are thinking of continuing serious airobatics in your RV, investment in
a parachute is a good idea. They're expensive, require regular maintainance
(repacking every 180 days) and not high on the comfort list. They will also
rearrange your position in the cockpit (further forward, higher) which may
or may not enfluence your flying (change in visual references).
However: the RV series is a proven design with over 1500 flying. Not many
(two, I think) have come apart in the air (what a design, Van!). There MAY
have been some accidents in which parting company with the airplane MAY have
resulted in saving a life (e.g., severe aft loading resulting in loss of
control).
The accidents I think we need to be more concerned with are those in which
the aircraft comes to greif by smiting into the Hard Surface. Which can be
as "simple" as a rollover. Van gave us good rollover protection but when
the canopy breaks (or not) our heads are what is next.
A HELMET may be a better investment at a lower cost and cover (pun intended)
a pilot for more situations than a parachute would. True, you don't need a
parachute until you need one, but the same can be said for a helmet. I saw
an RV-4 last year at OSH and both pilot and GIB were wearing helmets. Good
idea.
Serious aerobatic pilots, test pilots and military pilots wouldn't fly
without one. But, then, should you wear them all the time or just during
test flying? Should you wear a parachute without a helmet (jettison canopy,
unbuckle, push out, bang head on horizontal.........)
Just some fodder for debate.......
I have a helmet. Looks cool (or dorky, depending on who you ask). (Highway
To The Danger Zone............)
Michael
RV-4 232 SQ
mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: Lakeland Meeting Place |
=20
I'll be there too. Maybe we should all meet around Ken's plane at 11am=20
or=20
so the first day, it should be easy to spot with the "C" registration=20
.=20
=20
=20
It'll probably also be the only one with a Canadian flag on one side of=20
the tail and a U.K. flag on the other side!=20
=20
It'll also be a little strange to have it poked and prodded by RV=20
experts. So far the only real comments have been from my wife and=20
neighbours and the odd builder (sorry John, ...not saying you're odd).=20
=20
Sooo, gentle with the critique guys....I'm the sensitive type ;-)=20
=20
See ya there.=20
=20
Ken=20
RV6A Flying=20
=20
(There should only be one copy of this message....)=20
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv-list(at)matronics.com |
| Subject: | Re: Plane data sheets |
>
> This is a MIME Encoded message. If you are reading this text,
> then your mail reader does not support the MIME (Multipurpose
> Internet Mail Extensions) standard. To take full advantage of
> the features of this message, you need to upgrade your mailer to
> a MIME V1.0 compliant package. Some parts of this message may
> be in human readable form.
>
> MIME Decoding Utilities
> -----------------------
> To make use of this encoded message, you can decode it using
> a MIME Decoding utility. The following are some freely available
> MIME decoding utilities:
>
> UNIX Users
> -----------
> Metamail : ftp://ftp.bellcore.com/pub/nsb/mm2.7.tar.Z
> This is the Metamail source code distribution.
> Mpack : ftp://ftp.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/mpack/mpack-1.5-src.tar.Z
> Source code for all platforms.
> MACINTOSH Users
> ---------------
> Mpack : ftp://ftp.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/mpack/mpack-1.5-mac.hqx
> Contains the Macintosh binaries
> PC Users
> ---------
> Metamail : ftp://ftp.bellcore.com/pub/nsb/mm2.7.dos.zip
> This is the MS-DOS binaries
>
> Mpack : ftp://ftp.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/mpack/mpack15d.zip
> This contains the MS-DOS binaries
> MIME-Aware Mail User Agents
> ---------------------------
> Note that the following Mail User Agents support MIME and hence if
> one of these are used the message will be automatically decoded
> be in a readable state:
> Elm Version 2.4 (UNIX)
> ftp://ftp.uu.net/networking/mail/elm
> Eudora 1.4.4 (Macintosh, MS-Windows)
> ftp://ftp.qualcomm.com/quest/eudora/windows/1.4/eudor144.exe
> ftp://ftp.qualcomm.com/quest/eudora/mac/1.4/eudora144.hqx
> Pegasus mail (MS-DOS, MS-Windows, Macintosh)
> ftp://risc.ua.edu/pub/network/pegasus/*
> Pine (UNIX)
> ftp://ftp.cac.washington.edu/pine/pine.tar.Z
>
--yq8fQw1Q0KabXKuaDH01qTz7ujUkLjL4
I made a plate for the Garmin 195 that I stuck onto the instrument panel that
uses the mounting bracket without the part that clamps to the yoke.
Jim
jamescone(at)aol.com
--yq8fQw1Q0KabXKuaDH01qTz7ujUkLjL4
From: aol.com!JamesCone(at)matronics.com
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:32:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: RV-List: Plane data sheets
--yq8fQw1Q0KabXKuaDH01qTz7ujUkLjL4--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randy(at)tr.reno.nv.us (Randy) |
| Subject: | Re: lyc 0-360 core |
Craig,
thanks for the reply, I know i'm asking a lot but i guess i'm just an
optomist at heart.I'm pretty sure of one thing though, i'm going to have to
forget the reasonable part.
cheers, randy
*********
Randy
*********
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lakeland Meeting Place |
<< Atta Way Peter, I wonder if there's any way we could all meet in the RV
parking area on the first day. I'm not going to be able to make it all the
way to the banquet on the 3rd day, something about my aniversary. If there
is a lister out there who will have a real live RV in the parking area maybe
we could meet there when the show ends. Last year I was just wandering >>
*If* I get to park with the RV's, my bird should be easy to spot. Harmon
Rocket, silver and black, with a BIG black prop with yellow tips. I'll park
the thing with the prop blade sticking up- that should make it easier to find
from a distance.
I might even give Ryan another ride...;-)
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rimbold(at)apollo.hp.com (Rob Rimbold) |
| Subject: | RV-6 Canopy questions |
> Can someone tell me the pro's and con's between the hinged canopy and
> the slide canopy? Also, has anyone ever had any problems with water
> leaks from either style in rainy regions of the country?
I've flown several times in an RV6A with a hinged canopy, and sat once
in an RV6 with a sliding canopy.
Sliding canopy pros:
+ Much improved ventilation while taxiing.
+ Looks cool to drive it around with your arm out the "window". :-)
Sliding canopy cons:
- Restricted visibility. I didn't like the way that the canopy
junction sat right in my line of sight. It made the cockpit seem
small and cramped.
Hinged canopy pros:
+ Excellent visibility, all around.
+ Wide-open view makes cockpit feel larger.
Hinged canopy cons:
- Not as much cooling air during taxiing. Perhaps this could be
addressed by temporarily routing more propwash air into the cockpit?
Sort of like sticking your hand at an angle to the air moving by a
car window, and redirecting it inside.
I don't have any experience with leaks, since I don't know anybody who
flies an RV6 in the rain. However, in my optimism, I believe that
with enough attention to detail that either of them can be made not to
leak.
Anyway, the RV6A that we ordered will have a sliding canopy. The view
more than makes up for a little taxiing discomfort.
'Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil (Mike Wills) |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing edge radius |
Steve,
This thread ran a couple of months ago. Check the archives. Consensus is
you're OK.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
Tom at Van's says it's OK. I just wanted
>the opinion of all you guys.
>
>Thanks
>Steve Dixon
>sdixon(at)laker.net
>RV-8 Rudder, Elevators to go
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage jig |
I am building my 6A in a jig that was used on a 6. No difference. It is a
beautiful jig, built by a cabinet maker, and outfitted with splice plates
so it knocks down for travelling! (Chicago area)
----------
> From: Joe Wiza <flnet.com!joe(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: fuselage jig
> Date: Wednesday, March 26, 1997 5:53 AM
>
>
> Hello out there RVer's. Could anyone tell me if the RV6 fuselage Jig
will
> work for an RV6A. If not how much modification, and ball park figure for
> materials.
>
> Joe/Wing
> joe(at)flnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n5lp(at)carlsbad.net (Larry Pardue) |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing edge radius |
>about 1/2 inch before the final radius there is about 1/32 inch taper.
>Is that acceptable? I can't bend it any more with the wood brake, it
>just won't do it. If it needs that last little bit more bend, I'll have
>to find a real bending brake. Tom at Van's says it's OK. I just wanted
>the opinion of all you guys.
>
>Thanks
>Steve Dixon
Steve,
I don't know how significant your underbend is but it is possible to bend
it some more by hand, literally. Using either bare hands or with a towel
just squeeze the TE. This is surprizingly effective, at least on the .016
skins. My understanding is the 8 uses thicker skins.
I just did this on my 6 and it allowed the upper skin to rest on the spar
with no apparent decrease in the bend radius.
I don't recommend this but it seemed to work for me. Like you I just could
not get the homemade brake to make enough bend.
Larry Pardue
Pacer N8025D
RV-6 N441LP Elevator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "A. Reichert" <reichera(at)clark.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 Canopy questions |
On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Rob Rimbold wrote:
[pros/cons of sliding vs.hinged canopy]
> Anyway, the RV6A that we ordered will have a sliding canopy. The view
> more than makes up for a little taxiing discomfort.
You did mean the hinged canopy, yes?
- Alan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com (John T. Craig-Stearman) |
Thanks for all the help on straightening my engine mount. I think I have
solved the problem. Guy Townsend introduced me to Mike Hayton, a virtual
artist in metal tube work. Mike applied a torch to the aft side of the
upper dynafocal ring tube. This caused the aft side of the tube to
lengthen, which in turn slightly increased the angle on the two upper
dynafocal cups. This also widened the dimension between the upper two
firewall bolts. He then bolted the mount to his welding table in the
correct dimension and allowed the mount to cool in still air. A test-fit
reveals that the bolts slide in with a light press fit.
As Mike said, in his slow Oklahoma drawl, "Ya kinda gotta know where to
heat the metal." No problem!
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com
RV-4 installing engine mount
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PhilipR920(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wig wag Lamp Flashers |
NAPA has a alternating flasher commonly used on law enformence vehicles that
retails for about $6.00. I haven't used one so I don't know flash rates,etc.
Phil Rogerson
6AQ 60057
Fernandina Beach, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Wiza" <joe(at)flnet.com> |
Just finished attaching the outboard side of the right wing leading edge.
Ifinally got all the #@#$%^%^&&^%^3/32 bolts thru and fastened. At which
time I noticed I hadn't beveled the trailing edge of the skin. Dont feel
like taking all the bolts out again and bending the trailing edge. What say
U anyone that has walked this path before.
Joe/wing
joe(at)flnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WDELROSSI(at)aol.com |
SUSCRIBE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 Canopy questions |
<< Anyway, the RV6A that we ordered will have a sliding canopy. The view
more than makes up for a little taxiing discomfort. >>
Huh? You just contradicted your own argument.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Does anybody know if the gentleman (or anybody else who gives
instruction in RV's) will be near Sun'n'Sun this year?
I have no taildragger time at all, and would like to do a couple of
landings in an RV (preferably RV-4) before I take to the air in my RV-3
(hopefully this year - I'm an incurably optimist).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rimbold(at)apollo.hp.com (Rob Rimbold) |
| Subject: | RV-6 Canopy questions |
> On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Rob Rimbold wrote:
>
>
> [pros/cons of sliding vs.hinged canopy]
>
> > Anyway, the RV6A that we ordered will have a sliding canopy. The view
> > more than makes up for a little taxiing discomfort.
>
> You did mean the hinged canopy, yes?
>
> - Alan
Yes, I meant to say "hinged", not "sliding".
A slight sloop of the fingers.. :-)
'Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowl Fitting |
>
>I'm at the point of fitting my top cowl and would like to how much
>relief to allow between the aft edge of the cowl and the forward edge of
>the canopy forward top skin. I'd like to keep the gap as close as
>possible for cosmetic and aero reasons but if the two edges contact I'm
>sure vibration will damage the fiberglass. I plan on placing some shims
>in place to hold the relief when I drill and cleko the fiberglass to the
>hing. Any recommendations.
>--
>Chet Razer
Chet,
I would suggest that you fit the top cowl to forward skin without shims.
I fit mine butted up tight to the forward skin and strived for as close a
fit as possible. After the cowl installation was completed, I then "opened
up" the gap to suit me. Too tight a fit will result in chipped paint. I
think it is more important to have a uniform gap than worry about the amount
of gap. You need to allow for the paint thickness on both the forward skin
and the cowl.
BTW, I allowed 1/4" for engine drop and this has worked out well. I have
a little larger gap behind the spinner than a lot of RVs that I've seen but
built my plane with an eye on ease of maintenence. On the RV-6, you have
gear legs, front baffles, carb box and the spinner to contend with in the
removal and installation. So, I installed the cowl with a little "wiggle room".
Also, on the FAB air box, I installed the top part of the seal on the FAB
air box. The curved seal, I installed on the bottom cowl. Thus, when
installing the bottom cowl, the FAB airbox "nests" in the seal material that
is installed on the bottom cowl scoop. This makes installing the bottom
cowl much easier. I also made removable horizontal baffles that fit under
the lip in the bottom cowl. Each side is attached with a couple of #6
screws into nut plates installed on the baffles.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)navix.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov> |
| Subject: | RE: RV-List:Aircraft safety |
Michael,
Just a quick reintroduction. I've been on this list for about a year.
Mostly a lurker, but I comment from time to time, usually on
noncontroversial issues! I've been a RV builder/owner for 12 years. If
you look closely at the article you referred to previously, you'll see
that I taught a block of the course. I appreciate your kind comments.
Although it was not my brainchild, I was one of the main supporters and
developers of the course from the NTSB side and am working hard to
insure its continuing success.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Puckett <GNPUCKETT(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Trailing edge radius |
>I just finished the final bend on the trailing edge of my RV-8 rudder
>using the home made wood bending brake per Van's plans. Now when the
>skin is clecoed to the spar, and a straight edge is placed on the skin,
>about 1/2 inch before the final radius there is about 1/32 inch taper.
>Is that acceptable? I can't bend it any more with the wood brake, it
>just won't do it. If it needs that last little bit more bend, I'll have
>to find a real bending brake. Tom at Van's says it's OK. I just wanted
>the opinion of all you guys.
>
>Thanks
>Steve Dixon
>sdixon(at)laker.net
>RV-8 Rudder, Elevators to go
Steve,
I had the same problem and ended up using my hand seamers with the edges
beveled and taped to SLOWLY squeeze the bend a little more. Make this a
slow accumulative process as to not end up with little dings at the edge of
the seamer. I did my RV-8 rudder first and probably bent a little too fast
and in a reflection you can see slight dings on the edge of where the
seamers were. On my elevators I went much slower requiring about 4 passes
total and you cannot tell, The radius came out perfect. I'm sure aero-wise
you're fine but I was also concerned about having that aft area under a
pre-load after seeing the cracks in some RV rudders.
Greg Puckett RV-8 80081 (Drilling right tank skin on)
gnpuckett(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernesto Sanchez" <es12043(at)utech.net> |
> From: KBoatri144(at)aol.com
> To: es12043(at)utech.net
> Subject: Useless Prattle
> Date: Friday, March 21, 1997 3:15 PM
>
> Ernesto,
>
> I'm sure I speak for most of the people on the RV list when I ask you to
> avoid endless arguments over items which are a matter of opinion. I have
> much better things to do than hear anyone's opinion on a single subject
> repeated endlessly. It seems to me that the facts on the BRS chutes are
> simple. IF you want the added security of the chute, and IF you have the
$,
> and IF you want to engineer the attach structure, and IF you can afford
the
> weight and space, then get one. Otherwise don't. It's cut and dried, so
> enough already.
>
> Kyle Boatright
>
> RV-6
Sorry!
Ernesto Sanchez
es12043(at)utech.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV instruction |
>
>Does anybody know if the gentleman (or anybody else who gives
>instruction in RV's) will be near Sun'n'Sun this year?
>
>I have no taildragger time at all, and would like to do a couple of
>landings in an RV (preferably RV-4) before I take to the air in my RV-3
>(hopefully this year - I'm an incurably optimist).
Finn, You are aware of Mike Seager. He will be at SnF with the -6, which
is the only RV that you can legally get dual in. I/we have no objection to
you getting time with another RV, however this RV will allow you to have a
logbook entry. My observation is that if you can twist Mike into giving you
some time in the -6, the -3 will be a piece of cake. Good luck with the
project and give us a call when you take to the air. Bill
PS: We like to be made aware of flying RV's. Our www.vansaircraft.com home
page keeps a tally of the number of flying RV's. It is an ego thing, but
it is in everyones best interest for us to know of the owners of flying
machines. A year ago when Van tested the RV-3 wing and found discrepancies
between the data of 15 years ago and what we were measuring in 1996, we
sent a letter to every flying RV-3 and every person who had even bought a
set of plans. Many of these letters were returned with no forwarding
address, but we have tracked down many of the current owners. The RV-3
wing modification has required that we send out three or four different
letters over the last 1.5 years. If your aircraft model has a perceived
design problem, we want to know how to get in touch with you, and you want
us to get in touch with you!
Since I have been on the list, we have picked up three flying aircraft that
we did not have in the computer just from the comments or the signature
line. When you call in to place an order, have us check to ensure that the
computer indicates your aircraft is flying (if it is). Up until a year ago,
the list was maintained on a paper bag, little scraps of paper, a square
of tp, a typed list with misspelled names, so you may have been lost. If
you know of flying RV's, let us know the owners name, N number and serial
number if you can get it. We think there are over 100 more planes than we
currently show on the list. Also, at the airshows we attend, we have a
list of current customers and the flying status is shown on the list. Check
it out at SnF or Osh this year. Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Moore <bobmoore(at)wwd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV instruction |
Bill Benedict wrote:
> >Does anybody know if the gentleman (or anybody else who gives
> >instruction in RV's) will be near Sun'n'Sun this year?
> Finn, You are aware of Mike Seager. He will be at SnF with the -6, which
> is the only RV that you can legally get dual in.
Bill,
I don't understand your reference to "legal dual". I ,as a CFI
can give dual instruction in anything with two seats, I just
can't charge for the rental of an experimentally registered a/c.
BTW, what makes Seager's -6 different?
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cowl Fitting |
Chet,
Try to keep it as close as posible, everything seem to move a little but
not much. Even trying to keep close you will be lucky to get a perfit no gap
fit . eep in touch ....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: leading edge |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Joe,
Any job worth doing, it worth doing right. You won't be happy with the
way the skin sits unless you put that bend in.......
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>Just finished attaching the outboard side of the right wing leading
edge.
>Ifinally got all the #@#$%^%^&&^%^3/32 bolts thru and fastened. At
which
>time I noticed I hadn't beveled the trailing edge of the skin. Dont
feel
>like taking all the bolts out again and bending the trailing edge. What
say
>U anyone that has walked this path before.
>
>Joe/wing
>joe(at)flnet.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
Has anyone ever had to bail out of an rv and parachute to safety?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jepilot(at)juno.com (J E REHLER) |
I give up. What does BTW stand for?
J. E. Rehler RV6A flying Corpus Christi, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Strobe power supply |
<< Please advise me on what options you've tried on mounting the power
supply for the Whelen strobe system with the singe power unit. >>
I put mine under the floor in the baggage area. Put the floor down with nut
plates and screws for accessibility. It's a little aft of the c.g. but
completely surrounded by conducting aluminum to isolate the RFI. Can't wait
to get this bird flying to see how it works.
Gene cafgef(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
>
>I give up. What does BTW stand for?
>
By the way
Scott (N506RV)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | flyingw <flyingw(at)ihug.co.nz> |
Hi folks my names Warren Jones this is my first posting.
Im very close to ordering the new R V 8
Empanage and Wing kit.
Im extremely excited about this airframe, what a great job the vans folks
have done.
As an aerobatic pilot the g rating of the airframe and wing
is an important factor to consider.
Ive seen in the us aviator the test of the prototype, and +6 and -6 gs was
mentioned.
i was wondering if this was the usable max or the total absolute max
ie Dont go near it!
any thoughts would be great to hear
it dosnt change the fact that im in love with the prospect of building this
aircraft
thanks, your list is great to read, so much to learn
keep up the good work.
cheers............................ flyingw............from new zealand
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net> |
J E REHLER wrote:
>
>
> I give up. What does BTW stand for?
>
> J. E. Rehler RV6A flying Corpus Christi, Texas
By The Way.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
>
>
> I give up. What does BTW stand for?
>
> J. E. Rehler RV6A flying Corpus Christi, Texas
>
"By the way..."
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bud Williams <williams(at)avana.net> |
J E REHLER wrote:
>
>
> I give up. What does BTW stand for?
>
> J. E. Rehler RV6A flying Corpus Christi, Texasby the way
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry H. Prado" <jerryprado(at)wa.net> |
| Subject: | Naming conventions. |
After deleting 40+ unread entries on parachutes, I realized that I =
needed to automate the sorting and filing of the mail items on the list. =
This way, items with certain key words in the subject would get filed or =
deleted. In the event that an item contained a key word corresponding to =
my current assembly, it would be brought to the forefront and I would be =
alerted.
The problem I am having is one that has plagued the data processing =
community since inception; naming conventions.
Everyone names their list subjects differently. That's the problem.It =
could be tackled a number of different ways. I think that a simple =
three-tier system would be natural and easy to follow.
Here's a few examples of subject titles:
{Tier1}-{tier2}-{tier3}
wing-tanks-(specifics)
wing-tanks-inverted feed
wing-skins-inner leading
wing-trailing-radius
wing-lighting-wigwag
vendor-address-request
ailerons-trim-help
...
My macro would execute directly after new mail is received. It would =
look at just two lists that you would maintain;
list #1 - Delete
Any items containing words in this list would be automatically deleted. =
The functionality here could be expanded to include mail originators.=20
list#2 - Forefront
Any items containing words in this list would be left in the inbox and a =
'current assembly alert' will be generated (a beep and a dialog box)=20
All items that 'fall through' these two lists will be sorted and filed =
in category 'buckets' corresponding to Van's assembly sections.
Any input, suggestions or critism is welcomed and appreciated.
Needless to say, I will make this macro available to all for free.=20
Jerry H. Prado-
RV6A-straightening ribs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
Bill:
Please clarify the following:
> You are aware of Mike Seager. He will be at SnF with the -6, which
is the only RV that you can legally get dual in.
Why ? I really am really curious.
I have never considered this before, but it sure doesn't seem to make sense
to restrict training and proper qualification of new pilots in type, in any
way. I would think that the FAA would encourage training. Must be part of
their experimental thing. They expect the home builder to go experiment on
how best to fly his creation.
Is this restriction based on the general "for hire" restriction, or is
there a specific prohibition in the FARS? Could you provide a reference?
I would think the EAA (and Vans for that matter) would take this on big
time if there truely is some regulation that says that there can only be
one RV and one pilot in the entire world that can checkout and properly
qualify new pilots.
>I/we have no objection to you getting time with another RV, however this
>RV will allow you to have a logbook entry.
Is that a true statement of Van's policy, that "you have no objection" to
your builders getting proper training as long as they don't log the time?
Wow, big of you.
John Top #5372
(619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vance Cochrane <vcochran(at)svip.com> |
| Subject: | SS HS brackets question |
Just a quick question regarding the SS HS hinge brackets on the rear
stabilizer spar. I checked the archives but didn't find what I need.
Plans say they should be cleaned and primed prior to riveting but my
question is can I=A0file and smooth the edges of the SS brackets the same
way that we do with the aluminum? My gut tells me this should be ok but
I=A0wanted to get some wisdom on this. Thanks in advance.
--
*************************************************************************=
****
Vance Cochrane Project Director
Silicon Valley Internet Partners (415) 524-1786
*************************************************************************=
****
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: leading edge |
>... I noticed I hadn't beveled the trailing edge of the skin. Dont feel
> like taking all the bolts out again and bending the trailing edge. What say
> U anyone that has walked this path before.
I wonder if it would be possible to slip a hinge pin or something
similar between the skin and spar, about 1/4" back from the edge, then
slide a block of wood along the edge to force the bend....?
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe power supply |
> << Please advise me on what options you've tried on mounting the power
> supply for the Whelen strobe system with the singe power unit. >>
> I put mine under the floor in the baggage area. Put the floor down with nut
> plates and screws
[snip]
I did the same thing, except that after thinking about all those nut
plates, I opted to split the RH floor panel in half laterally, rivet a
doubler to the front edge of the aft half and pop rivet it on, and
nut-plate only the front half. My thinking was that in addition to
saving some work having to nut-plate the whole panel, the smaller panel
w/fewer screws will be faster and easier to get in and out.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
<< I give up. What does BTW stand for? >>
By the way,.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Acker <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
>Wow, big of you.
>
>John Top #5372
>(619) 549-3556
John,
I don't know how the other listers feel, but I feel *very* priviliged that
Van's finally has a presence on the list. They (Bill) are a very valuable
source of *good* info here, please don't be rude and piss 'em off.
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Fritz <75303.1623(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: leading edge |
Re. the decision to remove the )(*)W$(#*)@%&bolts etc. so that you can bevel the
skin.
Ask yourself this:
When you're showing it off to your friends who thought you were nuts for taking
on this project, is your eye going to go to that spot wondering if they'll
notice? Will they wonder what they don't see?
And if you go to the trouble of fixing it, will you later tell folks about how
you went to the trouble to take it all apart and do it just right as a way of
convincing the skeptics that an EXPERIMENTAL airplane is safe?
Food for thought
Cheers
Bob Fritz
p.s. Think of it as a test fitting prior to the final set-up.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lakeland Meeting Place |
Mark,
Looking forward to it! For anyone else at sun"n"fun I will be in the RV
parking area a red and silver RV4 N131RB from colorado. We will be there from
Sat thru Wed.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV instruction |
Bob,
It would be interesting to see the kind of dual you can do from the back
seat of an RV-4 with no rudder pedals and not being able to see the
instrument pannel.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SCHRICK_Mark/usa_carrollton_ca(at)usx006.stm.com |
Importance: High
| Subject: | 1976 Decathlon FOR SALE (Calif) |
djason(at)ix.netcom.com, cmadden(at)wwi.net, RBaron18(at)aol.com,
rv-list(at)matronics.com, bweber(at)lfsus.jnj.com
1976 Decathlon 8KCAB
1350TTAF
Lycoming 0-320 (160 Hp)
350 SMOH
Compression HIGH
FULL inverted system
Constant Speed Prop
Apollo 760 COMM
King KT-76A Transponder
G-meter
EGT/CHT
(2) 5-point harnesses
Gap Seals
Spades
Wheel pants
2 parachutes available
Annual: April 97 with sale
Logs available by fax or mail
Red/ White/ Blue stars and stripes scheme from factory
Book value: $47 plus
Asking: $41,000 or best offer by 4/15
Mark Schrick
1397 Boysea Drive
San Jose, Ca 95118
(408) 266-1599 Phone/Fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Bronson <70773.2700(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: RV instruction |
> Finn, You are aware of Mike Seager. He will be at SnF with the -6, which
> is the only RV that you can legally get dual in.
Bill,
I don't understand your reference to "legal dual". I ,as a CFI
can give dual instruction in anything with two seats...
Bob Moore
This is not necessarily true. FWIW:
FAR 91.109 (a) "No person may operate a civil aircraft (except a manned
free balloon) that is being used for flight instruction unless that
aircraft has fully functioning dual controls."
In my understanding, only the -6 and -6A have full dual controls;
most -4's and -8's have or will have a rear stick, but no throttle,
rudder pedals, brakes, etc. in the back seat.
I'm new to this RV/experimental business. If I'm off base, please
correct me. My take on the dual instruction question was the
question of controls, not the experimental classification of the aircraft.
BTW, has anyone equipped a -4, with full dual controls, including:
-Stick
-Rudder pedals
-Throttle
-Brakes ?
Is anyone planning to so equip an -8? Does it require a major re-design?
Tim Bronson
Lurking in Pittsburgh, planning RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
> > You are aware of Mike Seager. He will be at SnF with the -6, which
> is the only RV that you can legally get dual in.
>
> Why ? I really am really curious.
Read FAR Sec. 91.319: Aircraft having experimental certificates:
Operating limitations, which says, in part:
(a) No person may operate an aircraft that has an experimental
certificate--
(1) For other than the purpose for which the certificate was issued; or
(2) Carrying persons or property for compensation or hire.
Van's has a special FAA sanctioned program with one of their RV-6s where
they can and do provide instruction and a plane for hire.
BUT... it IS ok to pay someone to give instruction in an experimental
that the student provides (his own or a borrowed one). I checked with
the EAA on this a while ago. I remember that they told me there is some
ambiguity as to whether this instruction can occur during the test
period however.
I recommend getting a copy of Advisory Circular 20-27, "Certification
and Operation of Amateur-Built Aircraft" to find out all you want to
know on this issue.
> Is that a true statement of Van's policy, that "you have no objection" to
> your builders getting proper training as long as they don't log the time?
> Wow, big of you.
You might want to reread Bill's disclaimer at the bottom of his email
messages for a clarification of his opinions vs Van's policy....
We're all in this together, trying to keep out of trouble with the FAA,
and I think Van's should be commended for their commitment to safety and
economy in taking the trouble of working out a way to provide an
aircraft for instruction at a VERY reasonable rate.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Marshall <greatlakes(at)biplaneadventures.com> |
djason(at)ix.netcom.com, cmadden(at)wwi.net, RBaron18(at)aol.com,
rv-list(at)matronics.com, bweber(at)lfsus.jnj.com
| Subject: | Re: 1976 Decathlon FOR SALE (Calif) |
Permit me a rather dumb question: When I fly aerobatics alone, am I
required to wear my parachute? We all know we should. But is it
required?
Several years ago, my understanding of the reg was that chutes were
required only when there was a passenger. I read the latest regs the
other day, and it seems to be clear: "each occupant" must wear a chute,
thus the pilot, even if alone, is an occupant, who must wear the chute.
There are times when the parachute is getting repacked when a pilot
might feel the call of the wild and go up without one. Maybe that's not
a good idea and would be illegal as well.
Any thoughts out there?
John Marshall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lm4(at)juno.com (Larry Mac Donald) |
Hi Folks,
Does anyone have any E-mail addresses for Ivoprop or Warp Drive ?
Thanks, Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernesto Sanchez" <es12043(at)utech.net> |
| Subject: | Pulsating lights-wing-lighting-wigwag |
Gall's (1-800-477-7766) has many flashing systems for pulsating light
patterns.
Part# U-FS028 sells for $44.99. It's designed for law-enforcement head
light systems.
They have free catalogs and a great return policy.
Ernesto Sanchez
es12043(at)utech.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net> |
| Subject: | Constant Speed Prop |
What is the normal maintenance and maintenance interval on a constant
speed prop? What is typical cost of inspection?
Ed Cole RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lm4(at)juno.com (Larry Mac Donald) |
REHLER) writes:
>
>I give up. What does BTW stand for?
>J. E. Rehler RV6A flying Corpus Christi, Texas<<<| Date: | Mar 27, 1997 |
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net> |
| Subject: | Leading edge bend |
With all of the talk of the leading edge bend, how far fron the edge do
you bend, what method is used, and is the bend visable?
Thanks,
Ed Cole RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "L. Coats" <lcoats(at)wave.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe power supply |
>
>
><< Please advise me on what options you've tried on mounting the power
> supply for the Whelen strobe system with the singe power unit. >>
Ours was screwed to the top of the battery box in the -6 and we have had no
problem with radio noise. We wanted this as far forward as possible as we
have a wooden prop. Only negative about this position is that plugging the
contacts to the unit is a bit of a fiddle - should have left longer wires!
L.Coats RV6 179hr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "L. Coats" <lcoats(at)wave.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Fuel sender reliability and type |
I have a general question to ask from those people with flying RV's. Have
any of you got the capacitance type sender, what types are
available/suitable for RV's and have there been any problems with these
units?
Those with mechanical sender units - have there been problems with any
particular brand?
Reply off list to save list space if you like (lcoats(at)wave.co.nz)
Thanks
L.Coats
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Moore <bobmoore(at)wwd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV instruction |
aol.com!RV4131rb(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
> Bob,
> It would be interesting to see the kind of dual you can do from the back
> seat of an RV-4 with no rudder pedals and not being able to see the
> instrument pannel.
If you had been instructing for 30 years as I have, you would
know that these are not real problems for a professional CFI.
True flight instruction occurs on the ground during pre-flight
briefings and ground school. The in-flight periods only serve
to allow the student to practice previously learned items.
How does one give dual in a Baron or Bonanza with those throw-
over yokes? Were you taught to takeoff and land using instruments?
Not my students!
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
Can anyone recommend someone who makes seats and seat back cushions for RVs
What should I expect to pay for 4 ready-to sit-on pieces that fit the plane?
What should I look for regarding how well a set of seats will comfort my
sensitive butt during long flights?
Any help or advice would be appreciated.
Thanks
Andy Gold (almost done)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Moore <bobmoore(at)wwd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV instruction |
Bob Moore wrote:
>
>
> aol.com!RV4131rb(at)matronics.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > Bob,
> > It would be interesting to see the kind of dual you can do from the back
> > seat of an RV-4 with no rudder pedals and not being able to see the
> > instrument pannel.
>
> If you had been instructing for 30 years as I have, you would
> know that these are not real problems for a professional CFI.
> True flight instruction occurs on the ground during pre-flight
> briefings and ground school. The in-flight periods only serve
> to allow the student to practice previously learned items.
>
> How does one give dual in a Baron or Bonanza with those throw-
> over yokes? Were you taught to takeoff and land using instruments?
> Not my students!
Group,
I wish to appoligize for the content and tone of this post. It had
been a rough day with new students.
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Rex" <jfr(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Regarding Bob Acker's comments regarding instruction I say...Amen Brother!
I have had the good fortune to have flown about four hours with Mike
Seager. Not only is he a first class flight instructor, but you would have
to look far and wide to find anyone with more RV time. I guess a person
could have his or her flight instructor fly off the test time on their RV,
and the teach them to fly it. The question then is, who do you want in the
right (back) seat? Your guy with 25 or so hours, or Mike with 1000 (I
think) plus hours. I know who I choose. Van's should be commended for
making him available.
Joe Rex
RV-4 working on fuselage
----------
> From: Rob Acker <ix.netcom.com!r.acker(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Instruction
> Date: Thursday, March 27, 1997 1:14 PM
>
>
> >Wow, big of you.
> >
> >John Top #5372
> >(619) 549-3556
>
> John,
>
> I don't know how the other listers feel, but I feel *very* priviliged
that
> Van's finally has a presence on the list. They (Bill) are a very
valuable
> source of *good* info here, please don't be rude and piss 'em off.
>
> Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rvbildr(at)juno.com |
<333A95AC.68D9(at)sbt.infi.net>
Maybe: BACK TO WORK! Ha!
Mal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark W. Gilbert" <mgilbert(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Naming conventions. |
RV-List message posted by: "Jerry H. Prado"
Jerry, macro sounds like a great idea. I'd be happy to do some Beta testing for
you
when its ready. I would suggest that the first tier correspond with the kits:
tier 1
would be empennage or wing or fuselage or finishing kit and perhaps a couple
other tier 1 categories such as: accessories, vendors etc. I would have an option
so
that non-selected categories are not automatically be deleted, just in case you
want to
roam through the mail. Anyway, great idea . . . Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com> |
John,
I don't necessarily agree or disagree with Bill's statements, but as you will
note in his signature line, they are his opinions. I appreciate his
particpation on this list and think that he has the right to be disagreed with
in a much more respectful manner than what you have displayed.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma, WA
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of John Top
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 1997 8:45 AM
Subject: RV-List: Instruction
ink that the FAA would encourage training. Must be part of
their experimental thing. They expect the home builder to go experiment on
how best to fly his creation.
Is this restriction based on the general "for hire" restriction, or is
there a specific prohibition in the FARS? Could you provide a reference?
I would think the EAA (and Vans for that matter) would take this on big
time if there truely is some regulation that says that there can only be
one RV and one pilot in the entire world that can checkout and properly
qualify new pilots.
>I/we have no objection to you getting time with another RV, however this
>RV will allow you to have a logbook entry.
Is that a true statement of Van's policy, that "you have no objection" to
your builders getting proper training as long as they don't log the time?
Wow, big of you.
John Top #5372
(619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RMille6453(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: UPHOLSTERY?? |
Hi Andy,
Though I'm currently working on an RV8, I reupholstered my AA5A Cheetah a
couple of years ago. I used Temperfoam in the seat bottoms and high density
blue foam in the backs. The Temperfoam is extremely expensive (Like $100
bucks for just two seats) but I feel it was worth it in the long run. While
it initially seems hard, it molds to your anatomy after a few minutes into
each flight. The company usually has a booth at OSH.
For covering I went to an automotive uphostery shop and bought some fablic
that was standard in 1994 Cadilacs (it passed flame tests). This has proven
to be very durable and nice looking, except where I dropped a soldiering iron
:(. I have a friend who did all the sewing for me, her previous experience
was on a couple of show cars and her work was excellent. Maybe you could
find someone with a similar background.
Happy flyin' ROB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com (Stephen Paul Johnson) |
| Subject: | Re: R V 8 G rating |
Warren wrote:
>
>i was wondering if this was the usable max or the total absolute max
>ie Dont go near it!
>any thoughts would be great to hear
Hi Warren,
The RV-8 wings have been TESTED to an ultimate load of 9 G's by sandbag
loading as referenced by a past issue of the RVator. Rating is one
thing, testing is another. I plan on doing acro in my RV-8, and as I
understand it, the main thing is to watch out for excessive airspeed in
unplanned attitudes since the plane is so clean. I will be flying with
a constant speed prop to minimize the danger of overspeed. I can't say
enough positive about this airplane.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121
working on elevators, wing parts filling up the basement
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Jordan <ace(at)pacifier.com> |
I have recently came across a Lyc O-360 A!A with 1190 hrs. TT. Taken out =
of a damaged Cessna with no prop strike. Has been setting in a garage =
since 1990, but was annualed then with good compression (mid 70's). Has =
Gov., Alt., Starter, Flywheel, Carbs, Mags, etc. attached. Logs also =
included. It was oiled up in '90 and then stored. The gentlemen can't =
use it now and is willing to sell it for $7800. Is this a good buy? I am =
going to look at it this weekend. What should I be looking for? So far, =
everyone that seems to know aircraft engines thinks it is definitely =
worth looking at.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV instruction |
Bob Moore wrote:
> If you had been instructing for 30 years as I have, you would
> know that these are not real problems for a professional CFI.
> True flight instruction occurs on the ground during pre-flight
> briefings and ground school. The in-flight periods only serve
> to allow the student to practice previously learned items.
>
> How does one give dual in a Baron or Bonanza with those throw-
> over yokes? Were you taught to takeoff and land using instruments?
> Not my students!
Wow, I didn't realise that my question would give rise to this long a
thread!
The main reason I'd want some "instruction" in an RV (preferably an RV-4
with rear seat rudder pedals - I know there are some out there) would be
to make sure I'm "quick enough with my feet" to avoid running off the
runway or even groundlooping. I don't particularily care about being
able to log the time.
Thus dual rudder pedals would seem essential.
Of course the real tricky part is that my RV-3 will have a left-rotating
prop because of the reduction gear I'm using on the Mazda 13B. So I do
not want want to train rudder handling to the point of reflexes.
Does anybody have Mike Seagers e-mail address or phone number?
Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV instruction |
>
>Bill Benedict wrote:
>
>> >Does anybody know if the gentleman (or anybody else who gives
>> >instruction in RV's) will be near Sun'n'Sun this year?
>
>> Finn, You are aware of Mike Seager. He will be at SnF with the -6, which
>> is the only RV that you can legally get dual in.
>
>Bill,
>
>I don't understand your reference to "legal dual". I ,as a CFI
>can give dual instruction in anything with two seats, I just
>can't charge for the rental of an experimentally registered a/c.
>BTW, what makes Seager's -6 different?
>
>Bob Moore
Bob, I'm not a lawyer, so I really cannot defend myself. I plead the 5th.
Sounds like you can *give* dual in an RV. I was not considering the case of
someone giving their services and flight time away for free. With that type
of an arrangement, I am sure that you have lots of friends and are busy!
The document I was basing my statement on was from AC 20-27D which is on all
Experimental/Amateur Built aircraft operating limitations: *No person may
operate this aircraft for carrying persons or property for compensation or
hire*. If it's free, I guess there is no problem.
The aircraft that Mike operates belong to Van's Aircraft. As the designer
and manufacturer of the kits, the FAA allows us to place an aircraft of
each type in a different category, Experimental/Market Survey/Crew Training
(not Amateur Built). This is the same catagory (I think) that Boeing might
have a 777 in for a period of time while demo'ing and training pilots prior
to delivery of the initial aircraft.
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gasobek(at)juno.com (Gary A. Sobek) |
Terry:
If you do not want it, please e-mail me with his phone number and I'll
buy it. If it is as stated, it is a steal at $7,800 U.S.
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 20480 N157GS
Electrical AeroSPACE Engineer
FAA A & P
EAA Technical Counselor # 3812
writes:
>
>
>
>I have recently came across a Lyc O-360 A!A with 1190 hrs. TT. Taken
>out =
>of a damaged Cessna with no prop strike. Has been setting in a garage
>=
>since 1990, but was annualed then with good compression (mid 70's).
>Has =
>Gov., Alt., Starter, Flywheel, Carbs, Mags, etc. attached. Logs also =
>included. It was oiled up in '90 and then stored. The gentlemen can't
>=
>use it now and is willing to sell it for $7800. Is this a good buy? I
>am =
>going to look at it this weekend. What should I be looking for? So
>far, =
>everyone that seems to know aircraft engines thinks it is definitely =
>worth looking at.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: UPHOLSTERY?? |
| From: | gasobek(at)juno.com (Gary A. Sobek) |
Andy:
IMHO, D.J. Lauritsen makes the finest and best value RV seats available.
She and here husband Buzz built a Grand Champion RV-4 several years ago.
They own CLEAVELAND Tool and Material. They have a web page and e-mail
address. http://www.cleavelandtool.com (Sorry, I did not link it.)
The price in the 1996 catalog is $440 for a -4 and $490 for a -6(A).
Avery Tools http://www.averytools.com also sell seats. Their 1997
catalog list them for $300 to $345 per set + $42.50 to $47ea for
boosters. (standard on DJ's). I own DJ's seats. They were a little
more but they have an excellent reputation behind them. A friend put
400+ hours on his -6 and steps on the seat every time he gets in and out.
His seats still look like new. This was worth a lot to me. I did opt
for DJ's optional Comfor Foam for $26 ea. This should take care of
anyones sensitive butt during long flights.
You may find cheaper that are not as good and you may find better but
expect to pay a lot more. Avery and CLeaveland both are RV builders and
have an EXCELLENT reputation behind them.
Good Luck,
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 20480 N157GS
Electrical AeroSPACE Engineer
FAA A & P
EAA Technical Counselor # 3812
writes:
>
>Can anyone recommend someone who makes seats and seat back cushions
>for RVs
>What should I expect to pay for 4 ready-to sit-on pieces that fit the
>plane?
>What should I look for regarding how well a set of seats will comfort
>my
>sensitive butt during long flights?
>Any help or advice would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks
>Andy Gold (almost done)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
>
>Bill:
>
>Please clarify the following:
>
>> You are aware of Mike Seager. He will be at SnF with the -6, which
>is the only RV that you can legally get dual in.
>
>Why ? I really am really curious.
>
>I have never considered this before, but it sure doesn't seem to make sense
>to restrict training and proper qualification of new pilots in type, in any
>way. I would think that the FAA would encourage training. Must be part of
>their experimental thing. They expect the home builder to go experiment on
>how best to fly his creation.
>
>Is this restriction based on the general "for hire" restriction, or is
>there a specific prohibition in the FARS? Could you provide a reference?
>
>I would think the EAA (and Vans for that matter) would take this on big
>time if there truely is some regulation that says that there can only be
>one RV and one pilot in the entire world that can checkout and properly
>qualify new pilots.
>
>>I/we have no objection to you getting time with another RV, however this
>>RV will allow you to have a logbook entry.
>
>Is that a true statement of Van's policy, that "you have no objection" to
>your builders getting proper training as long as they don't log the time?
>Wow, big of you.
>
>John Top #5372
>(619) 549-3556
>
>
>
>*Wow, big of you.* Just trying to help a person but if you take things
out of context, well.... Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
>
>>Wow, big of you.
>>
>>John Top #5372
>>(619) 549-3556
>
>John,
>
>I don't know how the other listers feel, but I feel *very* priviliged that
>Van's finally has a presence on the list. They (Bill) are a very valuable
>source of *good* info here, please don't be rude and piss 'em off.
>
>Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q
>
>
Thanks. Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elon <elon.o(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Charlie Kuss wrote:
(snipity snip) . . . It's a funny thing, twenty years ago cars used to have lead
induced
> valve sticking. Not anymore, since the advent of no lead fuels. When
> low/no lead gas was introduced in the mid 1970's, all sorts of dire
> predictions were made about its effects on valve seats and guides.
> Most (I didn't say all) of it turned out to be hot air.---------------------------------------------
When the EPA mandated low (no) lead fuel the manufactures had to compensate by
useing hardened
seats & hardned valves. The cast iron seats were either flame hardned, or in the
case of trucks,
the head was machined to accept Stellite inserts. In 1973 dollars, a standard intake
valve was
about $2.50-$5.00. The no-lead, hardened intake valve became $13.50. Std Exhaust
valves were
$6.50-$8.50 and became $14.00-$21.00. A "soft" valve job was usually about $100
if no parts were
replaced. In 1973, to do a valve job and convert the "leaded" head to a "no lead"
head with all
new parts cost about $400-$600 for a V-8. (reply off-list if you want a detailed
cost
break-down).
The reason the dire preditions did not come to pass was that manufacutres compensated
immediately
by manufacturing suitable parts for low lead fuel - at greatly increased cost.
"Hardened" cyl
heads were obviously invisible to the consumer just as the greatly increased costs
that were
passed along.
(There is no free lunch), Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
> RV-List message posted by: Terry Jordan
>
>
>
>I have recently came across a Lyc O-360 A!A with 1190 hrs. TT. Taken out of
a damaged Cessna with no prop strike. Has been setting in a garage since
1990, but was annualed then with good compression (mid 70's). Has Gov.,
Alt., Starter, Flywheel, Carbs, Mags, etc. attached. Logs also included. It
was oiled up in '90 and then stored. The gentlemen can't use it now and is
willing to sell it for $7800. Is this a good buy? I am going to look at it
this weekend. What should I be looking for? So far, everyone that seems to
know aircraft engines thinks it is definitely worth looking at.
>
Terry, You better run for it, because there is going to be a hot trail for
that engine with a lot of people with money in hand. Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
>
>Has anyone ever had to bail out of an rv and parachute to safety?
>
I'm not aware of anyone jumping out! Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Dual instruction in RV's |
Now I understand the term flame! Thanks to all who came to the rescue in
the fire brigade.
The comment about *I/we don't object...* was just to state that the rules
can be interpreted that ..., but we do appreciate those people with RV's
who are helping their mates get ready for that first flight, even if it may
be a gray area.
I think some good points came up in some of the discussions and several
people sent me mail directly, however I think all of the points were
covered in the general postings.
An interesting note about our aircraft. Someone turned us in to the FAA
last year for using an Experimental for flight-training-for-hire. We
received a letter from the local FEDs informing us to cease operation
immediately. A quick phone call to the FAA for a clarification found the
inspector who approved the operation just a few cubicles away from the
person who was informing us we were violating the FAR's. I demanded a
letter of retraction and received it the next day. Not only do I not get
the picture correct all the time, but the enforcers don't have all the
facts some time.
Thanks for the suport guys, Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV instruction |
<< Does anybody have Mike Seager's phone number? >>
Check the Yeller Pages at http://www.sound.net/~hartmann/yelrpage.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV instruction |
Bob,
No appologies needed at least not from me. I dont care if your a
professional CFI or an unprofessional one. Id love to see how you prevent a
student from a ground loop in an RV4 when you have no rudder control in the
rear seat. Most people who will fly RV4s with no tail wheel expereince will
require some time in another tail wheel type airplane. Unless they are
fortunate enough to find a good instructor who has a 4 with rear seat rudder
pedals available.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: UPHOLSTERY?? |
>Avery Tools http://www.averytools.com also sell seats. Their
>1997 >catalog list them for $300 to $345 per set + $42.50 to $47ea
>for boosters. (standard on DJ's).
Hmmm. I wonder if those are the ones made by Becky and George
Orndorff? I've seen some swatches from them that look pretty good.
I'm not sure about the foam inside. I also remember that, at one time,
we could get them from Alexander, now Aircraft Spruce and
Specialty East. Their material looked good, also. Both looked great
in the photos.
Jim Sears
RV-6A (building fuselage bulkheads)
AA5A N26276
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | H Sutphin <hsutphin(at)magicnet.net> |
Terry,
You really shouldn't buy this engine, give me his address and I'll tell
him for you ;)
Harold
RV-6A //Wing kit//
Terry Jordan wrote:
>
>
> I have recently came across a Lyc O-360 A!A with 1190 hrs. TT. Taken The gentlemen
can't use it now and is willing to sell it for $7800. Is this a good buy?
I am going to look at it this weekend. What should I be looking for?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com> |
Terry Jordan wrote:
>
>
> I have recently came across a Lyc O-360 A!A with 1190 hrs. TT. Taken out of a
damaged Cessna with no prop strike. Has been setting in a garage since 1990,
but was annualed then with good compression (mid 70's). Has Gov., Alt., Starter,
Flywheel, Carbs, Mags, etc. attached. Logs also included. It was oiled up in
'90 and then stored. The gentlemen can't use it now and is willing to sell it
for $7800. Is this a good buy? I am going to look at it this weekend. What should
I be looking for? So far, e
Terry,
It sounds like it "was" a good engine when removed. After 7 years, the
question is, how much corrosion (rust) has set in. Borrow a borescope to
check inside the cylinders if possible. I would also want to do a
cylinder leakdown test. A&P mechanics aren't the only ones who use
these. Good auto techs use them too. Snap On makes a nice unit. You
might consider buying one if you can't borrow one. I found mine in a
pawn shop for about $75.00
Ask (and look around) where the engine was stored. Was the building air
conditioned? That would insure little or no corrosion for long periods.
Were disicant plugs fitted to the engine? Were the exhaust and intake
ports sealed? How about the breather tubes? All engine openings should
have been sealed to prevent moisture ingress. In spite of these steps
being done, some moisture would get in if the storage site was in a high
humidity area of the country (unless stored in A/C). Look at the
exterior aluminium. Does it show signs of corrosion?
If a borescope shows clean (or very, very slight rust) cylinders, a low
cylinder leakdown test may be repairable without disassembly. This is a
mechanic's trick I've used many times on motorcycle engines up north.
#1)Remove the spark plugs from the engine.
#2)Find an oil passage galley plug. Remove the plug and devise a method
to inject motor oil under pressure into the galley. This will supply oil
to the bottom end components before you rotate the engine. This is done
to prevent damage to bearings, cam and crank journals that may be dry
(no oil on them).
You can modify a common grease gun (providing it has seals good enough
for holding oil) to do this. You can rent a devise to do this. Auto
parts stores who sell remanufactured auto engines have these. They
require the engines they sell to be pre-oiled before starting or they
will void the engine's warranty.
#3) Remove Intake and/or exhaust parts necessary to insure filling the
affected ports with WD 40 or CRC 5-56. 2 or 3 ounces per port is
sufficient. Fill the ports where the valves are closed.
#$) Rotate the engine till the valves on another affected cylinder are
closed and repeat the process. This may require flipping the motor over
to get the oil to flow down into the engine.
#5) Rotate the engine repeatedly to allow the oil to "work" between the
valves and valve seats. Setting the motor on a stand and running it is
best for this step.
#6) Repeat the leakdown test to check for improvement.
A motor stored for extended periods will develop a light rust buildup on
valve faces and seats. This is often enough to prevent their proper
seating. The light oil will clean these surfaces quite well if the rust
isn't severe and you run the engine immediately after doing the oiling.
I have purchased a number of low milage motorcycles which were stored in
unheated garages and stored for years without any "pickling". I was able
to negotiate the price down because I found that one or more cylinders
had low compression. Since the owners never pickled the motors, I had
to disassemble the carburators anyway to overhaul them due to dried up
gas in them. This allowed me access to the intake ports. Removal of the
exhaust pipes gave access to the exhaust ports.
I want to stress that removal of the spark plugs is mandatory to prevent
hydrulic locking of the engine. I hope this was of some use to you. I'll
be happy to help with any other questions you have.
Charlie Kuss charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com> |
Elon wrote:
>
>
> Charlie Kuss wrote:
> (snipity snip) . . . It's a funny thing, twenty years ago cars used to have lead
induced
> > valve sticking. Not anymore, since the advent of no lead fuels. When
> > low/no lead gas was introduced in the mid 1970's, all sorts of dire
> > predictions were made about its effects on valve seats and guides.
> > Most (I didn't say all) of it turned out to be hot air.---------------------------------------------
>
> When the EPA mandated low (no) lead fuel the manufactures had to compensate by
useing hardened
> seats & hardned valves.with all
> new parts cost about $400-$600 for a V-8.
>
> The reason the dire preditions did not come to pass was that manufacutres compensated
immediately
> by manufacturing suitable parts for low lead fuel - at greatly increased cost.
"Hardened" cyl
> heads were obviously invisible to the consumer just as the greatly increased
costs that were
> passed along.
>
> (There is no free lunch), Elon
Elon,
Everything you say is true. My point was that at that time there was a
fear that PREVIOUSLY manufactured engines would have valve and seat
failures of huge preportions.
This never happened as predicted. Why? Because the valves and seats in
existing engines had work hardened themselves. Thus they were harder and
more durable than when manufactured. FYI I was working for a very large
Chevrolet dealer in 1973, so I think I know a "little" about the
subject.
It certainly doesn't cost $400-600 today because the improved valves are
the standard.
I can buy new heads for that kind of money. The period of financial pain
was limited and the problem overblown.
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
I'll be there on Monday or Tuesdays in my VERY Yellow RV-6.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wes Hays <whays(at)tenet.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: UPHOLSTERY?? |
I would suggest you call George and Becky Orndorff. They do quality work
and can take care of it. Tel 817/439-3280 or e-mail George at
OrndorffG(at)aol.com.
Wes Hays
RV6-A Working on Left Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
First let me appologize to Bill for the last portion of my original
posting. It was rude and uncalled for. Bill is a super guy and is providing
a great service. I must have been having a bad hair day when I responded. I
need to learn to read my messages before posting. Some things that are
intended to just poke a little fun don't read that way in print.
My question related to the legality of receiving instruction in an
experimental and the logging of that instruction not to the compensation
side of the equation.
That portion of Randall Henderson's response that addressed this issue
stated what I understood to be the case.
>... it IS ok to pay someone to give instruction in an experimental that
>the student provides (his own or a borrowed one).....
And, that being the case appropriate log entries can be made.
But, I would like to offer one more thought before closing.......
Based on the consensus in the recent thread on leasing (leasing is not
considered "for hire"), is it safe to assume that we can carry Randall's
thesis one step further and lease from party A and compensate party B for
his services as an instructor?
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Beaton <beatonk(at)usaa.com> |
| Subject: | F612 bulkhead alignment |
I am trying to determine if the F612 bulkhead flange points forward or =
reward for the RV6A. The plans indicate that the flange points toward =
the forward fuselage, but the tape shows the flange of the F612 =
pointing reward.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Acker <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
>
>Regarding Rob Acker's comments regarding instruction I say...Amen Brother!
Actually, the moment I hit the "send" button (while replying to John Tops
message) I was looking for the "regret" button. I did not mean to be so
directly accusatory...sorry John.
I gain much from Bill's presence on the list (even though I am thou$ands
poorer because of his demo ride ), and wanted to make sure he stayed.
I've seen many fine RV'ers bail the list because they were treated poorly.
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
Hi there J.E.,
Do people actually call you J.E. ?
Email words:
BTW - by the way
IMHO - in my humble opinion
FYI - for your information
RTFM - read the manual!
Smileys - a substitute for body language:
:-) smile :- ( frown ;-/ "I doubt it"
8-0 "What!" there are many more =<|%}> Santa?
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Almost ready to start on the wings
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | The Instruction Thread |
I was lucky in that before I flew my -6, a good friend of mine checked me out
in his -4 and then cut me loose for a few hours. Before that I think that I
got about 40 hours of "back seat" time in several RV's. If you don't have
somebody that can give you stick time in an RV before you fly yours you have
three options:
1) Fly it anyway and hope for the best.
2) Have sombody else (with RV experience) test fly your RV and then have
that person check you out in your aircraft.
3) Pay the money and fly one of Van's aircraft. It's a good deal!
As far as BFR's are concerned...either get 'em done in your RV or, if you
think that there is a legal proplem paying an instructor to fly with you,
rent an airplane!
It all sounds simple to me. I don't think that the feds are going to bust us
for getting BFR's in our aircraft, they have bigger fish to fry.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Logging time |
<< Based on the consensus in the recent thread on leasing (leasing is not
considered "for hire"), is it safe to assume that we can carry Randall's
thesis one step further and lease from party A and compensate party B for
his services as an instructor?
>>
John:
I think that the leasing would fall into the "for compensation" column,
therefore not legal. I'd say party "A" is out of luck. However, I'm sure
party "B" would appreciate any compensation you would care to give him or
her.
BTW, You can log any PIC (sole manipulator of the controls) time, if you are
rated in that type of a/c.
As before, if I'm all wet here, I need to know it...
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SCHRICK_Mark/usa_carrollton_ca(at)usx006.stm.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Mack" <donmack(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: F612 bulkhead alignment |
I just sent this same question to Van's. According to them it should poin=
t
forward, but either way is ok.
Don Mack
RV-6A
donmack(at)flash.net
http://www.flash.net/~donmack/
----------
From: Kevin Beaton <usaa.com!beatonk(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: F612 bulkhead alignment
Date: Friday, March 28, 1997 10:16 AM
=FF RV-List message posted by: Kevin Beaton
I am trying to determine if the F612 bulkhead flange points forward or
reward for the RV6A. The plans indicate that the flange points toward th=
e
forward fuselage, but the tape shows the flange of the F612 pointing
reward.
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steen8751A(at)aol.com |
I have 700 hours of car gas experiencce, 87 octane wth no jugs down.
Continental A-65, O200, and E225. With 100LL in the O200, the engine ran
rough, and I pulled 6 jugs at separate times due to stuck valve guides on the
exhaust side. I won't argue the theories, just offering my personal
experience.
Also, I never experienced a vapor lock with car gas. I even plan my long
cross countries to lsnd at car gas airports. I find them with my Flightsoft
planning S/W, and call on the phone to be sure.
Doug Steen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Gracely <gracely(at)yoda.nidr.nih.gov> |
| Subject: | Fairings and tabs |
I can't believe that I am finally getting to the point of attaching those
wings "over there" to this fuselage "right here"!
I have a question about options for building/buying wing root fairings. I
recall a post about RV-4 fairings, do these fit on the -6? Is there more
than source? Any opinions about difficulty in making your own?
About the thread on the merits of electric versus manual trim. I notice
that the manual trim cable shows increased play when bent 180 degrees. The
issue is whether this play causes any functional problem in flight. My
trusty old C-120 has some definite play, but at its screaming top end of
100 knots, it is very stable when trimmed to level flight. I always
thought that aerodynamic forces kept the tab against one side (down) of its
"slop".
Does play in the trim system result in pitch oscillation or other problem,
or is it just an irritant that shouldn't be there?
Thanks to all for the years of shared insight.
Rick Gracely RV6 half-way?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | E-mail abbreviations |
| From: | jepilot(at)juno.com (J E REHLER) |
Thanks to all of you explaining BTW and describing other e-mail acronyms.
A lot like the many abbreviations used for code transmissions in ham
radio e.g. cul (see you later), gn (good night), 73 (good bye), wx
(weather), hr (here), gud (good), etc. Thanks again. J. E. Rehler
Flying RV6A Corpus Christi, Texas Ham radio operator W5KNZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark & Candace LaBoyteaux <tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: F612 bulkhead alignment |
Kevin Beaton wrote:
>
>
> I am trying to determine if the F612 bulkhead flange points forward or reward
for the RV6A. The plans indicate that the flange points toward the forward
fuselage, but the tape shows the flange of the F612 pointing reward.
Here's what I did on my -6a. I put the F612 bulkhead in with the
flanges pointing rearward. Two reasons, it made it easy to squeeze the
rivets along the flanges instead of having to drive them, and it gave me
more room to put in bigger access plates to get at the elevator horns.
In fact, mine are large enough to get my arm all the way into this area
to retrieve the numerous nuts and washers that I've dropped trying to
hook up the elevator controls!
But I think that the plans do specify that for a -6a, the flanges face
forward. I just installed my vertical stab and rudder this week, and
there weren't any problems with the way that I did it.
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6A N106RV
tailspin(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Haan <bobh(at)cdac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: F612 bulkhead alignment |
>I am trying to determine if the F612 bulkhead flange points forward or
>reward for the RV6A. The plans indicate that the flange points toward the
>forward fuselage, but the tape shows the flange of the F612 pointing
>rearward.
> RV-List message posted by: "Don Mack"
>
>I just sent this same question to Van's. According to them it should point
>forward, but either way is ok.
>
I have it pointing forward. If I had know it was ok either way, I would
have it point rearward so the rivets in it and the skin were easier to
access and set well. They could be squeezed if the F612 flanges pointed
rearward. This is a difficult place to get a rivet set and/or bucking bar
into especially after one side skin is riveted on.
***********************************************
Bob Haan Office 503-636-2348
Cascade Design Automation Mobile 503-720-1132
Pacific Northwest FAX 503-636-2348
District Sales Manager E-mail bobh(at)cdac.com
See our web page at http://www.cdac.com
***********************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge bend |
> With all of the talk of the leading edge bend, how far fron the edge do
> you bend, what method is used, and is the bend visable?
The bend he was talking about (I think -- at least it's the
bend that _I_ was talking about in my response to the original
question) was just the pre-bend on the edge of the skin to
make it lie flat without scalloping after being riveted on. For
example the "edge rolling tool" that Avery sells is for making this
bend.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Re: F612 bulkhead alignment |
Kevin Beaton wrote:
>
>
> I am trying to determine if the F612 bulkhead flange points forward or reward
for the RV6A. The plans indicate that the flange points toward the forward
fuselage, but the tape shows the flange of the F612 pointing reward.
I noticed the same thing when I watched the tapes. I installed mine
according to the plans (flange forward). Next time I'll install flange
aft(so I can squeeze the rivets. Either way will work fine.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | The Instruction Thread |
For the 6A crowd, another option that I used way back when, was to find an FBO
with a Grumman AA1B. It's controls are similar in feel and it even uses
differential braking. What it doesn't have is power. After a good checkout,
I felt very confident that I could do my own first flight and did.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA/finishing fuselage floors/tail & wings done.
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of
aol.com!RV6junkie(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 28, 1997 10:23 AM
Subject: RV-List: The Instruction Thread
I was lucky in that before I flew my -6, a good friend of mine checked me out
in his -4 and then cut me loose for a few hours. Before that I think that I
got about 40 hours of "back seat" time in several RV's. If you don't have
somebody that can give you stick time in an RV before you fly yours you have
three options:
1) Fly it anyway and hope for the best.
2) Have sombody else (with RV experience) test fly your RV and then have
that person check you out in your aircraft.
3) Pay the money and fly one of Van's aircraft. It's a good deal!
As far as BFR's are concerned...either get 'em done in your RV or, if you
think that there is a legal proplem paying an instructor to fly with you,
rent an airplane!
It all sounds simple to me. I don't think that the feds are going to bust us
for getting BFR's in our aircraft, they have bigger fish to fry.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aileron template question |
| From: | greenrv(at)juno.com (Lawrence J Greeno) |
Using the Frank Justice manual for building the RV-6A wings, I'm having
difficulty visualizing construction of the aileron locator templates used
for placement of the airleron mounting brackets. The manual refers to
V-shaped 4' long templates constructed of plywood. If you have been
through this, I'd appreciate a sense of what the templates look like.
Are they actually triangular 3-dimensional mock-ups of the aileron? A
detailed explanation will be much appreciated.
Larry Greeno
greenrv(at)juno.com
Rochester,NY
RV6A/working on wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: UPHOLSTERY?? |
I talked to many owners at the last Oshkosh about Temper Foam cushions in
the cold. They were adamant in their criticism of the material in cold
weather! I got some samples (firm, medium and hard) and put them in our
freezer. At 28 degrees F the material is hard as a rock! I was interested
in it for its safety value -- prevent spinal injury by absorbing impact --
but I'll steer clear of it because I fly in the cooler climes!
Dennis 6A fuselage in the jig
----------
> From: aol.com!PFPA(at)matronics.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: UPHOLSTERY??
> Date: Thursday, March 27, 1997 6:29 PM
>
>
> Can anyone recommend someone who makes seats and seat back cushions for
RVs
> What should I expect to pay for 4 ready-to sit-on pieces that fit the
plane?
> What should I look for regarding how well a set of seats will comfort my
> sensitive butt during long flights?
> Any help or advice would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks
> Andy Gold (almost done)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fwd: Tools for sale |
| From: | HARRY PAINE <HPair(at)ix.netcom.com> |
-- [ From: HARRY PAINE * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
------- FORWARD, Original message follows -------
Date: Tuesday, 28 MAR -97 10:13 AM
From: HARRY PAINE \ Internet: (hpair(at)ix.netcom.com)
Subject: Tools for sale
TOOLS FOR SALE
Harry Paine
477 printz rd
Arroyo Grande Cal 93420
805-481-2524
90% angle drills 1/4 28 thread rebuilt---------------------- -----------
225.00*
45% angle drills 1/4 28 thread rebuilt -------------------- -----------
225.00*
Pistol grip small palm drill 3/8 chuck jiffy cleco IR rebuilt - 100.00**
3X & 4X Rivet guns C/P US Ind Cleco___ ________125.00
C squeeze MODEL 114 C C/P or Us Ind 1 1/2" yoke _____275.00**
Drills 6" and 12" 1
.00 -2.00
Flush Rivet set with rubber guard extra wide 1 1/4 " wide much nicer than
Averys. This is the best I've even seen while they last $10.00
# 8 nut plate jig ..............................................
..........12.00
15 mil thick 3M Alum sound damping tape (used on 767) 9" wide not
available anywhere else other than 3M Sold by linear foot minimum 10' order
1.00/ln. ft.
All tools guaranteed 30 days or your money back. Items sold and shipped UPS
COD Cash or certified check.
** Limited Availability sold on a first come first serve basis.
Email Harry Paine @
Hpair(at)ix.netcom.com
or call 805-481-2524 & leave message
------- FORWARD, End of original message -------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: SS HS brackets question |
<333AA8F9.798D(at)svip.com>
| From: | ab6a(at)juno.com (ALLAN E POMEROY) |
I filed and smoothed all the edges of the brackets before priming. The
steel can probably get stress cracks just like the aluminum. That's the
way I looked at it. So that's why I did it that way. Hope it helps.
Perhaps some of the engineers can add to this.
Allan Pomeroy CNY
AB6A(at)juno.com
H S Skeleton on hold, but not for much longer.
writes:
>
>Just a quick question regarding the SS HS hinge brackets on the rear
>stabilizer spar. I checked the archives but didn't find what I need.
>Plans say they should be cleaned and primed prior to riveting but my
>question is can I=A0file and smooth the edges of the SS brackets the
>same
>way that we do with the aluminum? My gut tells me this should be ok
>but
>I=A0wanted to get some wisdom on this. Thanks in advance.
>--
>*************************************************************************=
>****
>
>Vance Cochrane Project Director
>Silicon Valley Internet Partners (415) 524-1786
>*************************************************************************=
>****
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
RV-8 #2 flew today (Friday). It is a taildragger (conventional gear) with
an O-320 (160+ hp). We hope to fly it enough this weekend to get some data.
This is one plane you cannot miss because of the color. Should get lots of
comments. I will not comment more on that, because by Monday we will have
photos on the web page.
This plane was built from the same parts that we will be supplying for the
fuselage kits. It was the proof copy of the fuselage kit. I think this is
the best product the shop has put out yet as far as quality. The same level
of quality existed from the first rivet driven to the last drop of paint
applied. It was built primarily by Phil Duyck and Scott McDaniels, our
prototype shop. Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elon <elon.o(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Autogas (chatter) |
Charlie Kuss wrote:
... at that time there was a fear that PREVIOUSLY manufactured engines would have
valve and seat
failures of huge preportions.
----------------------------------------------
1972-73 was the "preliminary" introduction of low-lead gas. During that time leaded
fuels were
more common than low lead. You could readily buy leaded fuel (even easier during
the 74 crisis).
In fact the gas tank port and the pump discharge were made smaller because it was
discovered that
people were using leaded fuel (it was cheaper) in low-lead cars. By 1973 all
NEW passenger cars
were manufactured with improved low-lead engine parts (1975 for ton trucks).
However, leaded
fuel was always available. The lead was tetraethyllead and was about 1 cc per gallon
in 1972 and
was gradually lowered each year until outlawed in 1978. Most of the pre-72 fleet
continued to
use leaded fuel for at least 6 years after 1972. That is the reason the problems
did not
materialize immediately.
--------------------------------------------------
This never happened as predicted. Why? Because the valves and seats in existing
engines had work
hardened themselves. Thus they were harder and more durable than when manufactured.
FYI I was
working for a very large Chevrolet dealer in 1973, so I think I know a "little"
about the
subject.
---------------------------------------------------
The exhaust gas temperature varies from 600 to 1400 degrees f - depending on load
& mix. Work
hardening does not take place and the valves definitely do not improve with age.
Even
leaded-fuel exhaust valves are quite hard. It was the cast iron seats that were
soft. No-lead
fuel requires harder seats and therefore even harder valves. The determinants of
receding
(sinking) valves and seats are (1) engine load, (2) type of fuel (3) mileage and
(4) spring seat
pressure. Trucks usually exhibit symptoms before cars because they are usually
under heavy load
(full throttle) a greater % of time and they rack up miles quicker. In 1973 I
never did anything
but a standard valve job. It was not till about 75-76 that trucks started showing
up with
valves receded almost 3/16" deep into the head!
-----------------------------------------------------
It certainly doesn't cost $400-600 today because the improved valves are the standard.
----------------------------------------------------
True, if you sell it before you need a valve job. Obviously it varies around the
country, but a
valve job on a modern car is about $800 - $1,200. To get pre-72 engines to survive
on no-lead
fuel you can buy new, aftermarket heads (Dart or World brand for a Ford or Chevy)
for about
$600-$800 or about $1k from a dealer (not counting R&R labor).
--------------------------------------------
I can buy new heads for that kind of money. The period of financial pain was limited
and the
problem overblown. - Charlie Kuss
------------------------------------------
The problem doesnt seam overblown because it has taken place over a 15-20 year
period and is
applied to a continually shrinking population of older cars. 30 million cars x
$600 = $18
Billion! Seams like more than loose change to me!
Elon
elon.o(at)worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stephen Jackson Soule <ssoule(at)vbimail.champlain.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Helmets (was parachutes) |
dimensional.com!mikel(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> I have a helmet. Looks cool (or dorky, depending on who you ask). (Highway
> To The Danger Zone............)
>
I would like to find or make a helmet with pieces in place to hear and
speak over the "general avaition" radio. Noise attenuation to protect
my hearing is also important. I have three questions:
Where did you get your helmet?
Does it bang against the canopy of your RV-4?
Can a 5' 11" pilot wearing a helmet fit under a RV-6 canopy?
Steve Soule
Wing-in-a-jig, Vermont
________________________________________________________________________________
<< RV-8 #2 flew today (Friday). It is a taildragger (conventional gear) with
an O-320 (160+ hp). We hope to fly it enough this weekend to get some data.
This is one plane you cannot miss because of the color. Should get lots of
comments. I will not comment more on that, because by Monday we will have
photos on the web page
Bill-
" It's a taildragger" ??? Is there a RV-8 tri-gear in the future ?
B.Clary
RV6A/75TX flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chinkley(at)ix.netcom.com (Curtis R. Hinkley) |
| Subject: | Re: UPHOLSTERY?? |
Dennis,
Even on the coldest days, it would only take 3 to 5 min for the
cushions to reach body temp, then they would be good for the rest of
your flight.
Curtis Hinkley
RV8
chinkley(at)ix.netcom.com
hinkleyc(at)fca.gov
Dennis wrote:
>
>I talked to many owners at the last Oshkosh about Temper Foam cushions
in the cold. They were adamant in their criticism of the material in
cold weather! I got some samples (firm, medium and hard) and put them
in our freezer. At 28 degrees F the material is hard as a rock! I was
interested in it for its safety value -- prevent spinal injury by
absorbing impact --but I'll steer clear of it because I fly in the
cooler climes!
>Dennis 6A fuselage in the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RMille6453(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: UPHOLSTERY?? |
You make a good point about the hardness of temperfoam in cold weather. I
live in California so it's not been an issue for me. I do make make flights
with ground temperatures in the 20's and 30's and the hardness does go away
once the cockpit warms up. The folks in below zero regions may have a
different experience. However, I've been very satisfied with the product for
the three years its been in the Cheetah and will probably use it in my -8.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RAINPOOF(at)aol.com |
An aquaintence has a 0320 A2A or A2B for sale for $7000. I have offered him
$6000 and he has agreed to sell. The engine was just taken out of a cub for
an 0360 replacementand has 1000 hrs on a first run overhaul. all accessories
are included plus a spare starter. It is an 80/87 with auto STC. Would this
make a good engine for my RV-6A? It takes the conical mount.
Jerry Engel
RV-6A Prosealing fuel tanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Fritz <75303.1623(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: UPHOLSTERY?? |
Yes indeed, temperfoam can be hard. But (add a "t" if you care to), once it
warms up you sink quite nicely. I live near San Francisco where it can get to
about 45-50 deg. and the headroom is zilch. But (that word again) once my fanny
warms it up I sink right down. The annoyance of the first 20 minutes seems a
good trade-off for the comfort of the rest of the flight.
Ok, I grant that my experience is a total of about 2 hours flying but (again)
there it is.
Bob Fritz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Fritz <75303.1623(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | what tools required for a 6qb |
I hope to start on a 6QB next month by first doing the regular empennage kit as
a learning experience. My question is this: do I need to build a full size
fixture? As I understand it, the H fixture is used for the tail and then the
wings. If all I am building on it is the tail, does it need to be so big?
Are there any other adjustments to the procedure?
Also, how is the tool list modified for the QB? F'rinstance, a pneumatic
squeezer seems a good idea for a standard kit but overkill on a QB.
Anybody out there finished a QB and care to let me know?
(Hi Hal, I'll be over to your place to help out as soon as you let me know
when.)
Bob Fritz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lauritsen" <clevtool(at)tdsi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: UPHOLSTERY? (temperfoam/conforfoam) |
A bit about foam. Temperfoam is the name given to Conforfoam by the folks
who market it. They sell the foam in a three layer stack which will absorb
an impact which will help protect the spine. However, in cold conditions
the lower most dense layers probably never warm up resulting in a very
ridgid seat. I too have talked with unhappy pilots using this three layer
system.
This product is also expensive and weighs more than other seating foams. I
and other aircraft upholstery shops recommend and use a 1" thick layer of
the firm (blue) conforfoam as the upper layer of the seat foam. Below that
a firm high density/high resilientcy polyfoam gives a firm seating base.
We find the 1" top layer will warm up in the time it takes to taxi out and
do your run up. The conforfoam really improves the comfort of the seat.
We use a covered square of it on long trips in the car or motor home, too.
Thanks,
DJ Lauritsen
Cleaveland Aircraft Tool
2225 First St.
Boone, IA 50036
1-800-368-1822
clevtool(at)tdsi.net
http://www.cleavelandtool.com
----------
> From: Dennis Persyk <worldnet.att.net!dpersyk(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: UPHOLSTERY??
> Date: Friday, March 28, 1997 8:36 PM
>
>
> I talked to many owners at the last Oshkosh about Temper Foam cushions in
> the cold. They were adamant in their criticism of the material in cold
> weather! I got some samples (firm, medium and hard) and put them in our
> freezer. At 28 degrees F the material is hard as a rock! I was
interested
> in it for its safety value -- prevent spinal injury by absorbing impact
--
> but I'll steer clear of it because I fly in the cooler climes!
> Dennis 6A fuselage in the jig
>
> ----------
> > From: aol.com!PFPA(at)matronics.com
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RV-List: UPHOLSTERY??
> > Date: Thursday, March 27, 1997 6:29 PM
> >
> >
> > Can anyone recommend someone who makes seats and seat back cushions for
> RVs
> > What should I expect to pay for 4 ready-to sit-on pieces that fit the
> plane?
> > What should I look for regarding how well a set of seats will comfort
my
> > sensitive butt during long flights?
> > Any help or advice would be appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Andy Gold (almost done)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ammeter <ammeterj(at)seanet.com> |
That's a 150 HP engine, same size as I have in my -6. Your -6A will fly
just fine with that engine and the price is certainly good. There really is
very little difference between the performance of a 150 HP engine and that
of a 160 HP engine.
Someone on the list recently said the best engine you could put in your RV
was whatever you can find. Used engines are damn hard to find in any kind
of shape. A 'core' is worth around $4000 now. If you later want to gain
the performance of a 160 HP engine you could change out the pistons for the
high compression version. I think, though, you'll be happy as it is. Even
a 150 HP RV-6A is nearly 80 MPH faster than a 150 HP 172 _and_ lots more fun!!!!
JA
>
>An aquaintence has a 0320 A2A or A2B for sale for $7000. I have offered him
>$6000 and he has agreed to sell. The engine was just taken out of a cub for
>an 0360 replacementand has 1000 hrs on a first run overhaul. all accessories
>are included plus a spare starter. It is an 80/87 with auto STC. Would this
>make a good engine for my RV-6A? It takes the conical mount.
>
>Jerry Engel
>RV-6A Prosealing fuel tanks
>
>
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
206-525-5445
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Bronson <70773.2700(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: UPHOLSTERY?? |
Bob Fritz wrote:
Yes indeed, temperfoam can be hard. ....
The annoyance of the first 20 minutes seems a
good trade-off for the comfort of the rest of the flight.
Why not pull the cushions out and leave them in your nice
warm car (or kitchen, if you leave at an airpark) while you
preflight? It would be yet another way that a thorough
walk-around would save your a**. :)
A few years ago my company tried some cushions that were
"astronaut cushions." I don't know if the were actually
Temperfoam, but they were like concrete on winter mornings.
We learned quickly not to "plop down" in the seat! I sat on
them several times, and only remember the "first impression," so
they must have been fine the rest of the time as I usually
remember a poor bed or seat.
Tim Bronson Pittsburgh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cowl Fitting |
>
>Chet,
> Try to keep it as close as posible, everything seem to move a little but
>not much. Even trying to keep close you will be lucky to get a perfit no gap
>fit . eep in touch ....George Orndorff
>
Yes....and you will trim and fit and trim and fit and get everything perfect
and take the cowling off and put it back on and the DANG thing WON'T fit
anymore. So, expect that. THEN, after you fly some it will shift some
more. DON'T waste time laying strands of fiberglass in the gaps for the
perfect fit. The cowling just moves around too much for that. IMHO.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
>I would like to find or make a helmet with pieces in place to hear and
>speak over the "general avaition" radio. Noise attenuation to protect
>my hearing is also important. I have three questions:
Where did you get your helmet?
> Does it bang against the canopy of your RV-4?
Can a 5' 11" pilot wearing a helmet fit under a RV-6 canopy?
>Steve Soule
Hey, Steve:
1. WHERE: Flight Suits Ltd (800-748-6693) will custom make a helmet for you
or you can order one of their standard fit if your head is close to
"standard" or what they call a "percentile liner". They can put
communication components in it to match with civilian radio and that
includes the use of noise attenuating ear cups. Heck, you can even get
oxygen mask fittings and the mask if you want. I find the standard headphone
cups are fairly good at noise attenuation and the com components work well.
No helmet is going to be truely comfortable to wear a lot; I have one of
those heads modeled after the Rocky Mountains so opted for the custom fit
(after I tried on several of their percentile liners) and it turned out to
be worth it. Watkins Aviation (214-934-0033) is another source but more
expensive.
2. DOES IT BANG: I have my canopy and seat built to allow room and there is
about 1" clearance between the helmet and the canopy. If I lean over to
look down, I will bump but so would I without the helmet. I also have a
thinner seat cushion that drops me down another inch, if needed (parachute
and helmet).
3. RV-6 CANOPY VS HELMET: I don't know but I think there is more head
clearance in a -6 than a -4. I'm 5'10" and I fit in the -4 with the helmet.
In the latest RVator there is a photo of Wolfgang Weichert jumping in his -6
with helmet and backpack chute. Hard to tell how tall he is but there he
goes. Interesting coment by Editors in the First Flight section regarding
more builders taking the first flight as seriously.
Suggestions: (once you get the catalog) The HGU-33 model is similar to what
F-16 drivers would use but has the visor lock knob sticking WAY up (over an
inch) which decreases your clearance. The HGU-55 (similar to A-6 drivers)
has the slide up visor and allows more canopy clearance. It also has padded
visor stops which gives some canopy protection. I have another stop on top
which helps stop direct helmet-to-canopy contact.
Is it worth the investment? IMHO, yes. Lose the canopy in flight; helmet is
your "second canopy". Teaching your RV how to land up-side-down? Good head
vs Hard Surface/flying plexiglass protection. Will I ever NEED a helmet?
Hope not. Know anyone who has had a head injury? Yes. Yikes. A helmet
can cost less than a HSI and maybe do more for you.........
Hope this helps.....
Michael
RV-4 232 SQ
mikel(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Herman Dierks <dierks(at)austin.ibm.com> |
You may want to make sure it has the 1/2 inch Exh valves.
What date was it last OH'd?
Some of the -A engines are quite old and may not have had all the
updates (to 1/2 inch valves for example).
7/16 valves are 1200 HR TBO.
You need the SN to see if it is narrow deck or wide Deck (the later style).
See archives for my postings on this.
Here is a snip of this:
Serial numbers end with a 'dash number', such as '-27' which identifies
the engine type:
-27 is for all O320 A and E engines (ie 150 HP).
-39 is for all O-320 B, C and D engines (ie 160 HP)
The 'dash number' may be followed by a letter.
A 'A' designates a 'Wide Deck' engine and the lack of the 'A' means it
is a 'Narrow Deck' engine. This applies to O-320 and O-360 engines.
For example, O-320-A2B engines come in both narrow and wide deck models
and you must know the serial number to determine what type it is if
you are talking to someone on the phone and can't see the engine yourself.
The other thing to check on is what oil pump gears it has as that may
limit TBO time also.
Check the specs on the crank to see if it is Std or undersize.
This will be stamped on the crank prop flange (and should be in the
log books). Look for stamping like M03M03P meaning .003 undersize
on mains and crank pins (rod bearings). 010 is 10 under, the max
you can go on cranks.
6K is a good price if you plan to fly it some more hours.
5K if it is a core that you plan to OH.
Herman
dierks(at)austin.imb.com
>
> An aquaintence has a 0320 A2A or A2B for sale for $7000. I have offered him
> $6000 and he has agreed to sell. The engine was just taken out of a cub for
> an 0360 replacementand has 1000 hrs on a first run overhaul. all accessories
> are included plus a spare starter. It is an 80/87 with auto STC. Would this
> make a good engine for my RV-6A? It takes the conical mount.
>
> Jerry Engel
> RV-6A Prosealing fuel tanks
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: what tools required for a 6qb |
| From: | ab6a(at)juno.com (ALLAN E POMEROY) |
Hi Bob,
The Horizontal Stabilizer skeleton is about 98 1/2" in length, so
yes, you do need to make the jig the full size that the plans call for.
Mine measures about 109" on the inside. Both the H.S. and the V.S. are
built within the upright posts, the wings are actually a few inches away
from them on angle irons or other suitable device. Hope this helps.
Allan Pomeroy CNY
AB6A(at)juno.com
H.S. skeleton on hold, but not much longer.
writes:
><75303.1623(at)CompuServe.COM>
>
My question is this: do I need to build a full
>size
>fixture? As I understand it, the H fixture is used for the tail and
>then the
>wings. If all I am building on it is the tail, does it need to be so
>big?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
Mark F. and company,
I began cleaning up my bird for sun"n"fun today and the unfortunate task of
cleaning the grease and oil off the belly was at hand. Earlier this month I
had suggested using simple green for this task as it had always worked well
for me. I remembered Mark Frederic's advice of using WD40. Being a curious
type I thought Id give it a try. (Mark does have a beautifull airplane so he
must know something.)
To my amazement this stuff works like majic! It took me less than half the
time usually required for clean up. Very little elbow grease required.After
initial clean up I then used the simple green to wipe off what little residue
was left. Great suggestion Mark thanks.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
| Subject: | what tools required for a 6qb |
>
>>I hope to start on a 6QB next month by first doing the regular empennage kit
>>as
>>a learning experience. My question is this: do I need to build a full size
>>fixture? As I understand it, the H fixture is used for the tail and then
>>the
>>wings. If all I am building on it is the tail, does it need to be so big?
Yes, the uprights are the same width for both building the horizontal
stabilizer and finishing the wings. I don't see how you can skimp here,
and it actually turns out to
be a small project.
>>Also, how is the tool list modified for the QB? F'rinstance, a pneumatic
>>squeezer seems a good idea for a standard kit but overkill on a QB.
I built my own empennage and am working on a QB now, I feel I've had
more than
enough usage out of my pneumatic squeezer to make it worthwhile. To me.
Sure,
you don't *need* one. You can also cut all your aluminum by hand with a
hacksaw...
Mitch Faatz RV-6AQBME N727MF (reserved)
Hanging a flap.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | what tools required for a 6qb |
Might as well make it full size. You will need to mount the wing somehow to
put on the final skin, unless you can figure out a better way. Also, if you
plan on mounting the ailerons and flaps like the Orndorff tapes show, the
extra space is handy. However, I have done the ailerons and flaps both
hanging and on a table with wing forms. I much prefer working standing up
rather than on my back!
I agree on the pneumatic squeezer. There just aren't that many "production"
type riveting jobs on the QB. I've found that a good short throat and a 3"
throat
hand squeezer works well and is good arm exercise. You'll probably need the
rest of the basic tools.
Les Williams/6AQBME/Tacoma WA/finishing fuselage floors/ wings and tail
done/2nd 6A
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Robert Fritz
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 1997 7:35 AM
Subject: RV-List: what tools required for a 6qb
I hope to start on a 6QB next month by first doing the regular empennage kit
as
a learning experience. My question is this: do I need to build a full size
fixture? As I understand it, the H fixture is used for the tail and then the
wings. If all I am building on it is the tail, does it need to be so big?
Are there any other adjustments to the procedure?
Also, how is the tool list modified for the QB? F'rinstance, a pneumatic
squeezer seems a good idea for a standard kit but overkill on a QB.
Anybody out there finished a QB and care to let me know?
(Hi Hal, I'll be over to your place to help out as soon as you let me know
when.)
Bob Fritz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Wiza" <joe(at)flnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge bend |
This is the Bend I was talking about. Just an added note, do the bends
before dimpling it makes life a lot easier. I dimpled one set before using
avery's tool which resulted my not being able to use the tool. I then took
a 3/4X3/4' Inch of hard wood about 6" inches long use a thin blade and cut
about a 3/8" slot lenght wise, this did the deed.
Joe/wing
joe(at)flnet.com
----------
> From: Randall Henderson <edt.com!randall(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Leading edge bend
> Date: Friday, March 28, 1997 7:52 PM
>
>
> > With all of the talk of the leading edge bend, how far fron the edge do
> > you bend, what method is used, and is the bend visable?
>
> The bend he was talking about (I think -- at least it's the
> bend that _I_ was talking about in my response to the original
> question) was just the pre-bend on the edge of the skin to
> make it lie flat without scalloping after being riveted on. For
> example the "edge rolling tool" that Avery sells is for making this
> bend.
>
> Randall Henderson, RV-6
> randall(at)edt.com
> http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Bronson <70773.2700(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Permit me a rather dumb question: When I fly aerobatics alone, am I
required to wear my parachute? We all know we should. But is it
required?
Hi John,
Regarding solo aerobatics sans chute:
FAR 91.307 (c):
"Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved parachute, no pilot
of a civil aircraft CARRYING ANY PERSON (OTHER THAN A CREWMEMBER) may execute any
intentional maneuver..."
The interpretation in these parts is that you can perform solo aero without a
chute since you're not carrying any person other than a crewmember.
Tim
Pittsburgh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Logging time |
>I think that the leasing would fall into the "for compensation" column,
>therefore not legal.
Mark:
There was a recent thread which I am pretty sure was on this list regarding
leasing and I think that I recall the bottom line was that leasing was not
considered for hire.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge bend |
>The bend he was talking about (I think -- at least it's the bend that _I_
>was talking about in my response to the original question) was just the
>pre-bend on the edge of the skin to make it lie flat without scalloping
>after being riveted on.
Randall:
Enlighten me.
Are the RV wing nose/main skins overlapped spanwise as well as chordwise or
is the wing flat on the bottom. I don't recall?
The reason I ask is because of my somewhat humorous experience with the
GlaStar wing.
I was impressed with the edge roller that Cleaveland Tool builds on a pair
of Visegrips. Buz demonstrated it to me at Sun n' Fun last year, but he
sold out almost immediately at the show and did not have one he could sell
me. I tried to order one a week or so later when I got home and his NC
lathe was down and he had not been able to build any and he aleady had a
sackfull on backorder.
I was in Ottumwa, Ia. in June working on a GlaStar and went to Boone for
the RV Fly-in. I had a few tools to buy, but on the top of my list was the
edge roller. Mike was running back and forth between the airport and their
home/shop picking up stuff for people at the fly-in. The lathe was back in
operation and he had turned the rollers, but had not yet assembled any
tools. I had bugged them so much that he offerred to move me to the top of
the waiting list and finish one for me. I followed him home and waited
while he polished a set of rollers and put a tool together for me.
Now for the punchline. A few weeks later when I was fitting the wing skins
on the GlaStar I found out I didn't need it. The GlaStar wing skins are
butted to the nose skins spanwise and the only overlap chordwise. I found
out that the curvature of the wing provided a nice tight overlap on the
skins without any need to roll the edge.
I was somewhat embarreaased by the whole thing, but they graciously allowed
me to return the tool
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
>Actually, the moment I hit the "send" button (while replying to John Tops
>message) I was looking for the "regret" button.
Rob:
I was the guy that needed the regret button. I deserved the lumps I got.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: what tools required for a 6qb |
If you're building a QB six you don't need to put up a wing jig to build the
empenage. I am now building an 8 and knew I would be moving before I started
the wings so I simply built the horizontal and vertical stabs on my work
bench. I got one straight 4X4 long enough for the horizontal stab and
mounted it level on my workbench. I then installed two 2X4 uprights on each
end and went straight to work. This worked fine and saved buying two
additional 4X4s plus the hassle of installing them on the floor and ceiling.
Rick McBride
RICKRV6(at)aol.com
RV6 N523JC
RV8 80027
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Darwin Esh <103126.3212(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Bob Fritz : I am also building a -6 QB #21 So far I have stayed as close as
possible to the construction manual
I built the wing jig as per plans and it worked out just fine. The aileron gap
seal calls for pop rivets on top` of the wing. I didn't care for that so I made
a bucking bar that fit so I could use AN426 rivets on the top and the pop rivets
where they don't show. Now if I can get up enough nerve to cut the canopy I'll
be in good shape.
Dar Esh N98CD (reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
>
>
><< RV-8 #2 flew today (Friday). It is a taildragger (conventional gear) with
> an O-320 (160+ hp). We hope to fly it enough this weekend to get some data.
> This is one plane you cannot miss because of the color. Should get lots of
> comments. I will not comment more on that, because by Monday we will have
> photos on the web page
>
>Bill-
>
>" It's a taildragger" ??? Is there a RV-8 tri-gear in the future ?
>
>B.Clary
>RV6A/75TX flying
Van announced some time ago that there will be an RV-8A, which like the
RV-6A is a trike. The fuselage is partially complete because we wanted to
build one more fuselage with prduction parts to verify that the bugs had
been worked out. I think the shop will go into slow motion for the next
month or two to relax after getting #2 out the door, so you probably will
not see the trike until next year. Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Autogas (chatter) |
>
> --------------------------------------------------
>
Elon,
Your experiences as regards the effect of unleaded gas on valves and
seats is considerable different than mine. From your posts it appears
that you deal more with trucks than cars. My experience is the reverse,
mostly cars. My experience was and is that the problems were limited.
Your experiences seem to be otherwise.
I'm not into pissing contests.
If you're going to Sun N Fun I'll be there Sunday and maybe Monday. I'd
enjoy chatting with you to compare notes.
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>
>snipped
Elon said,>
> 30 million cars x $600 = $18
> Billion! Seams like more than loose change to me!
>
Elon,
If there were that many problems, Ralph Nader would have had a field
day!!! Just my opinion.
> Elon
> elon.o(at)worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net> |
I'm at the fluting stage on Ribs. Question is what side
do you lay flat on table to check for flatness? It also
says cut out lightning holes in rings on the HS-405's
In the manual it says to drill pilot holes then use a fly
cutter. they already have Inch and a half holes already
Am I missing something here? Is there anyone I can
call between the hours of 6-9 pm pst for questions
regarding.
Respectfully,
Mike Comeaux
6A Tail kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bud Newhall <bud(at)softcom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Helmets (was parachutes) |
Stephen Jackson Soule wrote:
>
> I would like to find or make a helmet with pieces in place to hear and
> speak over the "general avaition" radio. Noise attenuation to protect
> Does it bang against the canopy of your RV-4?
>
> Can a 5' 11" pilot wearing a helmet fit under a RV-6 canopy?
>
> Steve Soule
> Wing-in-a-jig, Vermont
Steve
There's enough room under the RV-6 conopy for you to wear a helmet
but...
When I fly my RV-6 I like to have the seat cushions adjusted so I'm as
close to the top of the canopy as comfortable to get as much visabilaty
over the nose as possible.
--
__|__
__|__ ____(+)____
____(+)____ ' '
' '
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RMille6453(at)aol.com |
Fluting, that's a good question. I did half of mine wrong and had to deflute
and reflute after the ribs were installed on my -8.
Also, does anyone know a way to roll an edge after holes are drilled and
dimpled nearby?
Learning Curve!!!!!! Arghhhh. . .
Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin lane <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
I was almost done with the baffling when I realized the pilot side crankcase
half has a mounting pad right in the middle of the left inlet floor. Above
it is another pad which is still cast over(never machined). This is a 1984
O-320 D2J -39A engine from a 172 upgrade. What went there? Air
conditioning pump? Second alternator? The 4 studs look 3/8" FT, pretty
hefty. The starter bolts on the studs which point down, these point out to
the side. I am going to have to cut a considerable amount out of the
vertical baffling that fits behind the starter ring gear in order to make
the standard kit part fit. I don't have an alternator yet, but assumed it
mounts down underneath on the right(passenger) side.
I ordered a parts manual but it is backordered. The O/H manual doesn't help.
(nosey note- RV8#2 ain't blue, nor red, green, white, black, orange, brown,
or purple! Sunglasses mandatory)
I don't remember reading about it on "the list" yet but Frank Justice's RV6A
flew recently. Frank was quite understated and happy with its performance.
He flew with Seager a year ago, so no surprises. Frank says beats his
Cheetah and second only to a 150 in ease of landing.( I'm not trying to
steal his thunder, I don't think Frank corresponds anymore thru the RV List)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< what side do you lay flat on table to check for flatness?>>
The rib web side, unless the flange is completely uniform all the way around,
in which case checking flatness on the flange edge would yield equivalent
results.
<< It also says cut out lightning holes in rings on the HS-405's. In the
manual it says to drill pilot holes then use a fly cutter. They have Inch
and a half holes already. Am I missing something here?>>
The early kits required you to fly cut the holes out yourself (perish the
thought). The newer kits probably have the holes mostly punched out. Just
ensure that the flat portion of the lightening hole is taken out to the edge
of the dished area, debur and smooth the edges, then move on.
<>
FWIW, I took the lower roller in the Avery tool and chamfered the roller
outer edge at a 40 degree angle (complementary angle to 100/2) just enough to
clear the dimples.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ron.taborek(at)flight642.com (RON TABOREK) |
I'll be at Sun'n'Fun Monday and I will be keeping an eye open for the
previously identified airplanes. At noon on Monday, I'll be meeting
Sam James, who makes wing root fairings and wheel pants at Van's tent.
Would like to meet any of you who are around.
Ron Taborek RV-4 Installing O-320 Toronto ron.taborek(at)flight642.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stephen Jackson Soule <ssoule(at)vbimail.champlain.edu> |
dimensional.com!mikel(at)matronics.com wrote:
> Hey, Steve:
> 1. WHERE: Flight Suits Ltd (800-748-6693) will custom make a helmet for you...
Thanks Mike!
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Arter <philip.arter(at)mci2000.com> |
| Subject: | Wing Skins over Spar |
Is it better to roll the edges of the wing leading edge, tank, and main
skins where they butt together along the length of the main, or leave
them flat? I don't have access to enough finished RVs to know what
looks best. Any opinions?
I made one-piece top wing skins last weekend, and you can see the
pictures at: http://acd.ucar.edu/~arter/wingskin.html
--
Phil Arter, RV-8 #80005
philip.arter(at)mci2000.com
http://acd.ucar.edu/~arter/RV8.html
(303)459-0435 home
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RMille6453(at)aol.com |
Hi GV
Thanks for the info. I still don't quite understand how you modified the
avery roller. Could you clarify? High altitude and no O2 has taken its toll
on me!
Thanks Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com (Cecil T Hatfield) |
Mike, concerning the ribs and which side to lay flat. Look and you will
see that the flanges are vairable width all around. So you have to lay
the face on the table. Can't be done the other way. At least mine
couldn't.
Myself, I found and easy chair and sat and eyeballed them, tweeked some
then more eyeball. Worked fine for me.
Cecil Hatfield
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ammeter <ammeterj(at)seanet.com> |
Sounds like a case of old manual and new kit----
My -6 ribs didn't have any holes precut and the manual did say to cut the
holes myself. I think the new kits come with the lightening holes precut.
You want to lay the 'web' side on the table. That the flanges will be 'up'.
What you really want is for the rivet line to be straight. You could draw a
line with a 'sharpie' pen the length of the flange and make that your
reference point. Another use for the line is to center the rib as you drill
the holes. Look for the line before you drill the hole in the rib.
I work really early hours and need my beauty sleep. My phone number is in
my 'signature'.
John
>
>I'm at the fluting stage on Ribs. Question is what side
>do you lay flat on table to check for flatness? It also
>says cut out lightning holes in rings on the HS-405's
>In the manual it says to drill pilot holes then use a fly
>cutter. they already have Inch and a half holes already
>Am I missing something here? Is there anyone I can
>call between the hours of 6-9 pm pst for questions
>regarding.
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Mike Comeaux
> 6A Tail kit
>
>
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
206-525-5445
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CAGPADDLES(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:RV-list:Helmets |
Steve wrote:
> I would like to find a helmet........
Steve,
Try getting hold of a company called Flight Suits LTD. I am in the
Navy and had them do some work on my helmet several years ago. At that time
they also sold new helmets, all mil spec I believe, and would form fit them,
paint or tape them, and install any type of comm gear you wanted to pay for.
They also carried Nomex flight suits and other military flight gear. Don't
know if they are still in business but the address was: Flight Suits LTD
El Cajon CA 32020
My $.02 worth on the subject of helmets and airplanes:
I fully intend to equip my -6 with helmets for myself and my passenger.
Maybe that requirement stems from all the military flying I've done (2500
hours in a brain bucket) but I always remember the old NASCAR racing adage.
"If you have a $2 head, wear a $2 helmet. IMHO a good helmet and visor is
probably one of the best safety features you can incorporate into your
machine. Not only does it help cushion your noggin in case of abrupt
inadvertant decelerations, it protects your face and eyes in the event of
bird strikes (assuming you wear you visor down). I haven't seen any reports
of RV bird strikes, but I'm sure that bird guts and plexi in your eyes at
175kts
would suck! A good helmet with a with properly formed edge rolls will do
wonders at
cutting down noise and vibration.
>getting off my soapbox now
Jim Brown
RV-6 Emp
757-482-7850
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Wiza" <joe(at)flnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge bend |
The the leading edge comes in two pieces, tank skin and outer skin they
butt up against each other. They also butt up against the trailing main
skins. The recomended proceedure (pre punched skins) for the main skins,
outer overlaps inner. I think the reason for the switch is so that water is
less likely to leak into the wing.I think the bends shud be made between
leading edge and main. I did not make the bend between the two leading
edges which turned out ok. I also made the bend on the overlaping outer
main skin. Looks ok to me so far.
joe/wing
joe(at)flnet.com
----------
> From: John Top <cts.com!jjtop(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Leading edge bend
> Date: Friday, March 28, 1997 11:24 PM
>
>
> >The bend he was talking about (I think -- at least it's the bend that
_I_
> >was talking about in my response to the original question) was just the
> >pre-bend on the edge of the skin to make it lie flat without scalloping
> >after being riveted on.
>
> Randall:
>
> Enlighten me.
>
> Are the RV wing nose/main skins overlapped spanwise as well as chordwise
or
> is the wing flat on the bottom. I don't recall?
>
> The reason I ask is because of my somewhat humorous experience with the
> GlaStar wing.
>
> I was impressed with the edge roller that Cleaveland Tool builds on a
pair
> of Visegrips. Buz demonstrated it to me at Sun n' Fun last year, but he
> sold out almost immediately at the show and did not have one he could
sell
> me. I tried to order one a week or so later when I got home and his NC
> lathe was down and he had not been able to build any and he aleady had a
> sackfull on backorder.
>
> I was in Ottumwa, Ia. in June working on a GlaStar and went to Boone for
> the RV Fly-in. I had a few tools to buy, but on the top of my list was
the
> edge roller. Mike was running back and forth between the airport and
their
> home/shop picking up stuff for people at the fly-in. The lathe was back
in
> operation and he had turned the rollers, but had not yet assembled any
> tools. I had bugged them so much that he offerred to move me to the top
of
> the waiting list and finish one for me. I followed him home and waited
> while he polished a set of rollers and put a tool together for me.
>
> Now for the punchline. A few weeks later when I was fitting the wing
skins
> on the GlaStar I found out I didn't need it. The GlaStar wing skins are
> butted to the nose skins spanwise and the only overlap chordwise. I found
> out that the curvature of the wing provided a nice tight overlap on the
> skins without any need to roll the edge.
>
> I was somewhat embarreaased by the whole thing, but they graciously
allowed
> me to return the tool
>
> John Top
> Phone: (619) 549-3556
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Rudder stops and rudder cables |
I have some interference between the rudder stops and the rudder
cables. My rudder stop hits the rudder horn (R-405) right at the
bottom of the rudder horn. This means the rudder stop is hitting the
rudder horn right at the rudder horn's strongest point, and in line
with the rudder cables. Unfortunately, it also means I have
interference between the rudder cable and the rudder stop. When the
rudder is swung fully to the right the left rudder cable hits the
left rudder stop. I can see three options:
Option 1. Move the rudder stop up 3/8". This would let the rudder
cable clear the rudder stop with no problems. This would mean that
the rudder stop would no longer hit the rudder horn at the bottom of
the rudder horn. It would also prevent me from riveting the rudder
stop to the existing rivet line which has a J channel for stiffness.
To get around this last problem I could make the rudder stop out of
bigger stock (1.5 x 2 vs 1 x 1).
Option 2. Significantly trim the rudder
stop. I'd have to cut off about half of it to eliminate the
interference. This would result in a much small surface area where
the stop hits the rudder.
Option 3. Ignore the rudder cable hitting the
stop. Stainless steel should win any fights with aluminum.
I'm inclined to go with option 1, fabricating new rudder stops that
will be big enough to rivet to the existing rivet line. What do you
folks on the list think?
Another thing I noticed: The horns of my rudder cable dig in to the
edge of R-405 (the portion that's 5 3/4"). I don't think that's
acceptable (crack formation). I'm going to reduce that 5 3/4 by 1/8"
or so on each side.
Tim
---------------------
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net
-----------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.Dieck/T.J.Dieck" <dieck(at)dwave.net> |
| Subject: | Shock mounting Instrument Panels |
I'm looking for suggestions on what others have done about shock
Mounting their instrument panels. I would like to avoid doing this if
possible.
Thanks to all!
Bob
--
The Airplane Factory
Robert & Tammie Dieck
Wausau WI USA
dieck(at)dwave.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< I still don't quite understand how you modified the
avery roller. Could you clarify? >>
Rob-
I took a try at an ASCII image below, although it is very crude. Print it
out and maybe it will convey the details.
UPPER LOWER
___________ __________
| | / \ <--------40 degree chamfer
all around
| | | |
|___________| |___________|
| | | |
-------------------------------------------
| |
| |
-------------------------------------------
Hope this is more clear,
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Brakes - Shuttle Valves |
IMO the dual braking system with cascaded master cylinders depicted in the
plans is a crude design that may produce erratic contentious operating
characteristics, especially when training a new pilot. I have located the
proper shuttle valves to allow the dual braking system to function as it does
in certificated aircraft. All details described below are for the dual
braking option to the hanging pedal arrangement on the RV-6A. For clarity in
all discussion, the term LEFT refers to items contributing to the functioning
of LEFT gear brake and RIGHT refers in like manner to the right gear brake.
The system first requires that the upper ports of all master cylinders be
replumbed to receive hydraulic fluid directly from the f/w mounted brake
fluid reservoir. This will require fittings to create a one-in/four-out
manifold and can utilize low pressure polyethylene tubing from Van's, P/N
PT-035x1/4.
We will be mounting two shuttle valves, Hoof Products A22 (Piper P/N 492-037
available from AVPAC 800-228-1836). Find or build a convient bracket to
allow mounting these valves in an acceptable location based on the routing
details described below. The shuttle valves each mount in a .437" diameter
hole and require an AN924-4D nut (not included). The absolute mounting
orientation is unimportant except to say that it should facilitate as direct
routing of the plumbing lines as is feasible.
I mounted mine on the hangling pedal center support bracket with the valve
body (both cylinders vertical side by side front and rear) on the right of
the bracket with the output ports going thru the bracket facing left. Four
right angle fittings AN822-4D are installed in the inlet ports with the lower
fittings facing right to receive the pax side lines and the upper ports
facing left to receive the pilot side lines.
The output of the left side shuttle valve (the long male port used to attach
the valve to the mounting bracket) connects to the left gear port of the
parking brake valve (if used) or goes directly to the left brake caliper
line. The two inputs to this valve (both inputs are the same so it doesn't
matter which of the two input ports goes where as long as they are from the
cylinders for left side pedals) connect to the left brake pilot pedal master
lower port and the left brake pax pedal master lower port. I used AN822-4D
fittings at these lower ports. Repeat this procedure on the second valve for
the right gear side.
Measure for your new -4 hoses and fabricate/order them. I used stainless
covered teflon lines with stainless fittings from Earl's because they are
small diameter and look cool.
Although many of you are not interested in installing dual brakes, those of
you that are might consider this simple upgrade to improve the system's
function.
-Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
Meeting arround Van,s tent at noon every day, might be a good idea. What
about having a card with "RV-LIST' pinned to hat to identify fellow "Listers"?
John Cocker Awaiting Paint.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave and/or Diane Irwin" <dirwin(at)ibm.net> |
| Subject: | RV-6A vert stab attach |
I am about ready to close up the tailcone area on my RV-6A by installing
the F614 cover. The vertical stabilizer seems to attach to the F612
bulkhead with bolts that also hold the tiedown ring. It seems to me that
there should be a doubler or some kind of reinforcement on the front side
of the F612 bulkhead to be strong enough to take the load from the vertical
stabilizer rear spar and the tiedown but I can't find any refererence to
any kind of reinforcement in this area. The RV-6 vert stab sems to have a
weldment for the tailwheel leg that goes on the front side of the F612 and
it also uses a double bulkhead for F612. Any ideas?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-6Q, cabin frame |
Hi,
I am just starting to get together the parts to build up the roll bar.
The plans call for some Alum Angle .187 x 2" x 2 1/2"
I have located 3 pieces with these specs. (2) 8" pieces labeled FL-406A
and (1) 18' piece labeled Alum Angle (no part#)
Am I right in assuming that the 18" piece is the one to cut from.
Also, I need a piece of Alum Angle .125 x 1 1/2" x 2"
The only piece of Angle meeting these specs is labeled T-405.
This is listed as a fuel tank part.
Anyhelp identifying the correct stock to cut from would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
RON TABOREK wrote:
>
>
> I'll be at Sun'n'Fun Monday and I will be keeping an eye open for the
> previously identified airplanes. At noon on Monday, I'll be meeting
> Sam James, who makes wing root fairings and wheel pants at Van's tent.
> Would like to meet any of you who are around.
>
> Ron Taborek RV-4 Installing O-320 Toronto ron.taborek(at)flight642.com
Ron
I am at the same point on my RV-4 that you are on yours, I would also
like to see what Sam James fairings look like, so I will make it a point
to be at van's tent monday at noon.
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
Tallahassee,FL.
working on the motor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6Q, cabin frame |
Glenn,
FL-406A is 1 1/2 X 2 x .125 and one will make both flap actuator pieces and
two F631D angle pieces. T-405 is 2 1/2 X 2 X .187 and will make both tank to
fuselage attach pieces as well as two F-631C pieces. One of each piece angle
is all I have in my QB, but I don't have the finish kit yet.
Les
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Glenn & Judi
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 1997 11:25 AM
Subject: RV-List: RV-6Q, cabin frame
Hi,
I am just starting to get together the parts to build up the roll bar.
The plans call for some Alum Angle .187 x 2" x 2 1/2"
I have located 3 pieces with these specs. (2) 8" pieces labeled FL-406A
and (1) 18' piece labeled Alum Angle (no part#)
Am I right in assuming that the 18" piece is the one to cut from.
Also, I need a piece of Alum Angle .125 x 1 1/2" x 2"
The only piece of Angle meeting these specs is labeled T-405.
This is listed as a fuel tank part.
Anyhelp identifying the correct stock to cut from would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DCHamilton(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Brakes - Shuttle Valves |
I have the cascaded master cylinder setup as shown in the 96-97 Aircraft
Spruce
catalog, p. 173. Please describe the difficulties which can arise in this
setup,
leading you to prefer the shuttle valve system. -- David Hamilton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Wiza" <joe(at)flnet.com> |
Working on the fuel tank. A .166 or #19 counter sink is required. I have
a 3/32 and 1/8 along with the counter sink tool from Averys but not a #19.
Do I need to order one of these or is there another way around it. tu
Joe/wingtank
joe(at)flnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Bronson <70773.2700(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Flight Suits Ltd / Bird strike |
Jim Brown wrote:
To whom it may concern:
They were as of about a year ago, when I bought some stuff from them.
Address: Flight Suits Ltd
1675 Pioneer Way
El Cajon, CA 92020-1642
(800)748-6693
I think the catalog is free. They've got helmets, flight suits, gloves,
kneeboards, jackets, etc.
They can put in comm equipment/boom mikes (a la Blue Angels). I bought
a Nomex flight suit and gloves from them and was pleased with the quality.
They're was a report of an RV bird strike a while back. It had a happy
ending (except for the bird), but the pilot did get a face full of bird
and canopy parts. If you're not inclined to wear a helmet, at least
spend 30 bucks on a pair on clear polycarbonate shatterproof glasses for
cloudy days and wear shatterproof sunglasses when it's nice. I don't
sell these items (or anything else for that matter) but I know a few places
to get them if anyone's interested.
Tim Bronson Pittsburgh (Who needs sunglasses around here?!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6Q, cabin frame |
> I am just starting to get together the parts to build up the roll bar.
>
> The plans call for some Alum Angle .187 x 2" x 2 1/2"
>
> I have located 3 pieces with these specs. (2) 8" pieces labeled FL-406A
> and (1) 18' piece labeled Alum Angle (no part#)
>
> Am I right in assuming that the 18" piece is the one to cut from.
>
FL-406A (two requred, one per flap) may be seen on drawing 17. Each
FL-406A will use just a bit more than 3" of the 2 x 1.5 x 1/8 stock.
I say "just a bit more than" because the piece is cut at a slight
angle, which is hard to see in the plans.
Tim
---------------------
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net
-----------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: UPHOLSTERY?? |
Andy:
>Can anyone recommend someone who makes seats and seat back cushions for RVs
Ready-made interiors are offered by the Ornorffs and Cleaveland Aircraft Tools.
My latest price list from George and Becky Orndorff:
Seats (basic fabric) $290/pair
Seats (premium fabric) $330/oair
Removable booster cushion $40/$50 Basic/Premium fabric
Lumbar support cushion $45/$50 basic/premium fabric
Interior sidwalls $85/$115 basic/premium fabric
Elec Flap housing cover $40/$25 basic/premium fabric
Carpeting $40/$60 basic/premium fabric
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
installing electricals and avionics
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Message for Byron Maynard |
Byron,
My replys kept coming back so I hope you receive this through the list.
Sorry to everyone else but I was at a loss of what else to do.
This is in regards to oil canning on my 6 fuselage.
I had slight oil canning on the two side panels just aft of the rear baggage
bulkhead and below the main longeron. I placed one angle vertically at the
mid-point in each panel. Its been a while since I wrote that message so I'm
not exactly sure what I said. If I repeat myself, sorry. I used the same
angle used as stiffeners on the flying surfaces. I don't recall their exact
thickness. I fluted them to match the slight curvature of the side skins and
simply glued them on with proseal. I cut away a generous radius from the
angle that would interfere with the rudder cable. It remained stiff enough
to stop the oilcanning. I hope that all makes sense.
Rick McBride
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Brakes - Shuttle Valves |
<< Please describe the difficulties which can arise in this
setup, leading you to prefer the shuttle valve system. >>
David-
All of my understanding of this situation is from the CBROS group in the
hangar next to me. They help builders complete Wheeler Expresses in the
western U.S. and the shuttle valve system I described is what they use for
this large 4-seater.
Apparently, the problem with the system in the ACS catalog, and likewise in
Van's dual braking option plans, has to do with what happens when both the
pilot and the pax try to operate the brakes at the same time in like and
unlike manner?
Let's say (per Van's plans) that the reservoir feeds the upper ports on the
pax side (I think that the ACS diagram shows the reservoir feeding the pilots
side and cascading into the pax side but Tom Green at Van's says it doesn't
make any difference) and then the lower ports of the pax side cascade to the
upper pilot's side ports and the lower pilot's side ports go to the parking
brake valve (if you have one) or to the brake calipers. This is the series
cascading dual braking system.
In the series type system, if both the pilot and pax apply the same side
brake pedal, the force from activating the upstream cylinder is additive with
the force from activating the downstream cylinder and this can lock up the
brakes more easily. Then depending on who activated their pedal first there
can be some variability in the degree of braking control and the manner and
order in which the braking force is released, also depending on who releases
first. There are check valves in the master cylinders and the downstream
valve (if applied first) can often be kept from releasing until the upstream
cylinder force is released.
I don't pretend to understand all I know about this, but it seems to me that
the parallel system using shuttle valves as in certificated aircraft prevents
the additive forces and provides a more predictable braking force. The
stronger force prevails always, no matter who applied it first. The
instructor can always counter any force that the student is able to provide.
The series system is simpler and is probably okay as long as both you and
the pax are not trying to use it at once. I probably wouldn't use it on a
taildragger though.
If anyone else has a better understanding of this situation (Elon?) perhaps
you will be kind enough to share your knowledge. Maybe someone (Fluid
Systems Engineer?) can better articulate and contrast what is actually
happening in the series vs parallel systems under the variety of timing and
force conditions likely to be encountered in normal operation. The
information I have presented is what I heard from those whose opinions I
value and is the extent of my knowledge on this topic.
-Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Shock mounting Instrument Panels |
>I'm looking for suggestions on what others have done about shock
>Mounting their instrument panels. I would like to avoid doing this if
>possible.
>Bob dieck(at)dwave.net
Bob,
I thought about doing this as well. I finally decided I didn't want to
take the time to shock mount. I prefer the looks of the panel without shock
mounts, as well.
I've got 350 hours on the six, so far, with no gyro problems, yet. Helping
me make this decision was the fact that my gyro instrumens were free.
Perhaps if I'd spent big bucks on the instruments, I would look at this
subject differently. I've also had my prop dynamically balanced which I
think might be benificial to the gyros and the rest of the airframe.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)navix.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
>
>Working on the fuel tank. A .166 or #19 counter sink is required. I have
>a 3/32 and 1/8 along with the counter sink tool from Averys but not a #19.
>Do I need to order one of these or is there another way around it. tu
>
>Joe/wingtank
>joe(at)flnet.com
Joe,
I assume you are talking about machine countersinking the front row of
fuel tank screw holes. I used the #8 screw counter sink cutter in the micro
stop countersink. You might be able to use the #30 and countersink wide
enough to match the #8 screw. Measure the width of the #8 screw and
countersink accordingly. When it looks like you're close, drill out the
hole to accept the screw. If you need a little more, you could use a cutter
in the swivel handle. You might want to try this on the bottom of the tank
(less visible in case a mistake is made). I'd recommend buying the
appropriate cutter but I think the method mentioned above could work.
Whichever method you use, I would recommend that you get a piece of scrap,
drill the appropriate hole for the pilot diameter that you are using and
clamp this to the tank to hold the pilot when you machine countersink each
hole. Otherwise, you're liable to end up with oblong holes as the material
isn't thick enough to hold the pilot accurately.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)navix.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder stops and rudder cables |
>I have some interference between the rudder stops and the rudder
>cables. My rudder stop hits the rudder horn (R-405) right at the
>bottom of the rudder horn. This means the rudder stop is hitting the
>rudder horn right at the rudder horn's strongest point, and in line
>with the rudder cables. Unfortunately, it also means I have
>interference between the rudder cable and the rudder stop. When the
>rudder is swung fully to the right the left rudder cable hits the
>left rudder stop. I can see three options:
>---------------------
>Tim Lewis
>RV-6AQ #60023
Tim,
I ran into about the same thing. I solved the problem by using AN42 (for
3/16" holes, if I remember correctly) eye bolts. I used these eyebolts on
all connections for the rudder/tailwheel system. Using these eyebolts allows
you to position the cables where desired with the added benefit of
eliminating wear on the rudder horn and the tailwheel arm.
I also mounted UHMW blocks on the rudder stops where the rudder horn hits.
This cushions the impact and saves chipping paint.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)navix.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Bronson <70773.2700(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | More on bird strike |
Hi folks,
FWIW, more info on my previous post:
As reported in the October '96 issue of "The RVator," a 6 oz. dove and an RV-4
met at about 200 mph over a runway. Result: a hole 18" in diameter in the
windshield. Lots of blood, feathers, and wind for the pilot to deal with, which
he did successfully even though partially blinded (way to go!). The pilot says
the fact that he was wearing glasses and they stayed on helped him retain enough
vision to fly.
I personally know two pilots who have been hit in the head by birds that passed
through their windshields. One was "dazed" and the other was knocked out cold.
They were flying a Twin Cessna and a Beech 99, respectively. Fortunately, both
were members of two-pilot crews. Food for thought: neither of these airplanes
is much faster than an RV, but I'll bet they both have stronger windshields.
Maybe this helmet stuff isn't such a bad idea...
Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin lane <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder stops and rudder cables |
A
>Option 1. Move the rudder stop up 3/8". This would let the rudder
>cable clear the rudder stop with no problems. This would mean that
>the rudder stop would no longer hit the rudder horn at the bottom of
>the rudder horn. It would also prevent me from riveting the rudder
>stop to the existing rivet line which has a J channel for stiffness.
>To get around this last problem I could make the rudder stop out of
>bigger stock (1.5 x 2 vs 1 x 1).
>
Frank Justice was telling me that the FAA inspector made him move his rudder
stops to eliminate the cable interference, so stainless doesn't beat
aluminum, the FAA does! FWIT, I made my stops from bigger stock (and pop
riveted them-it's so tight back there)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: baffled baffler |
>
>I was almost done with the baffling when I realized the pilot side crankcase
>half has a mounting pad right in the middle of the left inlet floor. Above
>it is another pad which is still cast over(never machined). This is a 1984
>O-320 D2J -39A engine from a 172 upgrade. What went there? Air
>conditioning pump? Second alternator? The 4 studs look 3/8" FT, pretty
>hefty. The starter bolts on the studs which point down, these point out to
>the side. I am going to have to cut a considerable amount out of the
>vertical baffling that fits behind the starter ring gear in order to make
>the standard kit part fit. I don't have an alternator yet, but assumed it
>mounts down underneath on the right(passenger) side.
>I ordered a parts manual but it is backordered. The O/H manual doesn't help.
>
>(nosey note- RV8#2 ain't blue, nor red, green, white, black, orange, brown,
>or purple! Sunglasses mandatory)
>
>I don't remember reading about it on "the list" yet but Frank Justice's RV6A
>flew recently. Frank was quite understated and happy with its performance.
>He flew with Seager a year ago, so no surprises. Frank says beats his
>Cheetah and second only to a 150 in ease of landing.( I'm not trying to
>steal his thunder, I don't think Frank corresponds anymore thru the RV List)
Kevin, This is a long about way to talk to someone who just lives across
town, but the -D2J has a forward mounted prop governor. It is just forward
of the #2 cylinder and would sit above the floor of the baffle. This is the
same engine Van has on a couple of his aircraft, except his has a hollow
crank. Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Electric elevator trim - An alternative approach |
>> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry H. Prado"
>>
>>My tail was built with manual trim. I don't see why installing electric
>trim after the fact can't be accomplished by putting the servo somewhere
>other than in the tail!? It could be argued that a stronger servo would be
>required to offset resistence from the additional linkage or cable length.
>Other than that, anyone see a problem?
>>
>>Jerry Prado
>
>Jerry, Several people have decided to make the change after-the-fact. This
>can be easily done by using the RV-4 throttle cable in lieu of the trim
>cable. The throttle cable is 55" and will move the servo (MSTS-8) to the
>rear of the fuselage. Bill
>
>Bill
Guys,
.... there is another way that I think is a little cleaner and
certainly cheaper. The trouble with a throttle cable is it's length (and
it's $50 price), which ends up putting the servo in some way inaccessible
place in the aft fuselage with no good mounting surface handy. A much
shorter cable would put the servo on the flat F-614 deck under the tail
surfaces, where it would be accessible by removing the F-694B fiberglass
fairing. I was ready to special order a shorter cable, and then a catalog
arrived!
Airparts Inc., Kansas City 800-800-3229 (the ads with the lady in
the roll of aluminum ..:^) have surplus 24 inch push-pull cables on sale
for $4.20 each. These have 10-32 threaded, swivels at both ends and a
threaded mount at one end that will thread into Vans WD-415 weldment.
Sounded close to what I wanted. I bought one (well actually two, since
they have a $10 minimum order ..:^) They do not have a vinyl jacket like
Vans cables, but a couple of layers of 3/8 diameter heat shrink tubing gave
me a nice looking plastic jacket.
I mounted mine as shown in the plans on the elevator, and routed
the new trim cable basically as shown on the plans, but through the center
lightening hole in the HS-405 rib ibnstead of the forward one. This will
make the location of the servo closer to the centerline for easier access.
The 5/8 hole in the main horizontal stab. spar will now be 3.5 inches out
from the centerline. The moving portion will penetrate this hole, so I
will fabricate an angle bracket riveted to HS-405 and use a 1/4 inch Adel
clamp to solidly anchor the forward end of the trim cable. A mounting
plate needs to be fabricated to hold the servo about 1 inch (whatever
measurement it takes to keep the trim cable in a flat, horizontal plane)
above the F-614 deck.
I think this will be a cleaner system, with better
accessibility, than using a throttle cable that Bill B. describes. Don't
forget that the WD-415 trim cable anchor weldment (the nut on a I inch sq.
SS plate) is part of the finish kit, and you might need to order one
seperately from Vans ($6.09 last week).
FOR SLOW BUILDERS ONLY:
Those of you with old elevators - I'm a slow builder ..:^( will
have a royal pain in the ^&&%$ if you built before Rev 3 of sheet 5 (now
sheet 5a), and have to open up the 7/16 hole in the WD-405 elevator horn.
I managed to use a 1/2 inch Unibit on an extension, got a 1/2 hole and then
used a slightly modified SB-625-6 (not a -7 as now called out) plastic
bushing. No way could I work out how to get that hole to be enlarged to
5/8 working through the slot in the pop-riveted leading edge of the elevator.
Interestingly enough, I got one of these -6 bushings to fit into
the main spar of the horizontal stab. by filing off the "lip" on two sides.
I could get a 1/2 hole in my main stab. spar without hitting the spar
caps. Seems tidier than no bushing and using the RTV approach.
... hope this helps some others considering a hybrid trim
cable/servo approach.
..... Gil (fiddling with trim tabs) Alexander
PS. anyone want to buy an Electric Trim Elevator Mount Kit cheap - servo
NOT included!
------------------------------------
RV6A, #20701
"REPLY" sends to entire RV-list
mailto:gila(at)flash.net to reply privately
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | flyingw <flyingw(at)ihug.co.nz> |
As a long time motorcycle rider i have experianced several bird strikes at
high speed ( over 100 mph ) .
The last one of these was without a doubt on the limit.
I had a very sore neck for a number of weeks.
The bird, which wasnt as big as birds get, shattered my visor and hit me in
the face with enough force
to nearly knock me from my motorcycle.
The blood and guts part is purely cosmetic.
Its the risk of being rendered unconsious that is the danger.
Traveling in an R V 8 say, at 222 mph would in my mind cause serious injury.
I will be purchasing a proper helmet prior to my first flight and using it
there after.
This is a kick arse list
specially for those of us in distant lands
really enjoying the info.
Warren Jones New Zealand Very close to ordering my R V 8 empannage and
wing kits.
P S Hope you enjoyed the weekends test flying of R V 8 #2 Bill !!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bennett(at)healey.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: Electric elevator trim - An alternative approach |
(snip) A much
> shorter cable would put the servo on the flat F-614 deck under the tail
> surfaces, where it would be accessible by removing the F-694B fiberglass
> fairing.
Personally, I never want to take that perishing fibreglass fairing
off once it's on. I used a Morse Controls type 32B cable of
89 inches length. The servo sits just behind the elevator bellcrank
on the other side of the rib.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 working inside fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder stops and rudder cables |
<< I'm inclined to go with option 1, fabricating new rudder stops that
will be big enough to rivet to the existing rivet line. What do you
folks on the list think?
Another thing I noticed: The horns of my rudder cable dig in to the
edge of R-405 (the portion that's 5 3/4"). I don't think that's
acceptable (crack formation). I'm going to reduce that 5 3/4 by 1/8"
or so on each side.
Tim >>
Tim: Sounds like a good option to me. I do the same thing on the airframes I
assist owners on. I found that a cut-off from the unused F450 (1 x1 x 1/8")
bars works the best, as the angle is opened up a bit - ~5 deg or so.
Another tip:
(6A owners can pass on this)
We use AN42B-4A eyebolts (with the eyes on the bottom) to attach the
tailwheel chains to the rudder horn and the tailwheel steering arms. This
moves the chains down a bit, and gives you a bit more clearance between the
chain and the fiberglass rudder bottom. I am also concerned about wear at the
rudder horn to chain attach point (aluminum losing to steel).
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Darrell L. Anderson" <d.l.anderson(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re:RV-list:Helmets |
> I haven't seen any reports
>of RV bird strikes, but I'm sure that bird guts and plexi in your eyes at
>175kts would suck!
Ron Warnich, a member of my local Chapter (1141) took a "curlew"
through the canopy of his RV-4 about 2 years back. A curlew is
a somewhat large shore bird with a downward curved bill. Ron
scared the bird up off some spring flooded land on approach to
his farm strip. I don't know at what airspeed this occurred, but
he managed to keep control and was not injured. He replaced the
canopy.
If anyone is interested, I can contact him for the messy details.
....Keep the visor down.
D. Anderson
Montana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gcomfo(at)tc3net.com (Gordon Comfort) |
| Subject: | Re: Electric elevator trim |
Craig Hiers wrote:
>
>
> Gordon Comfort wrote:
> > The major
> > problem is lost motion in the cable and clevises. It seems that where
> > the cable makes the S curves in the tail all the internal clearances
> > present themselves.
> > Combined with the clearances in the clevises, considerable free play
> > appears at the tab trailing edge. Remote mounting of the serve, as in
> > converting from manual, would not help in this regard.
> >
> > Gordon Comfort
> > N363GC
>
> Gordon
> What do you mean by this? The routing of the trim cable, and the clevises
> are causing free play in the trim tab? Mine seem to be very tight, but I
> would like to know if there is a potential problem here.
>
> Craig Hiers
> RV-4 N143CH
> Tallahassee,FL.
Craig
Sorry for the long delay in responding to your question on trim system
free play.
The internal clearances build into the cable (I presume necessary for
low friction operation) are not greatly evident when the cable is
straight. When it is curved however, this clearance shows up as free
motion at the unfixed end. One can demonstrate this by holding the
cable straight with one end fixed and then manipulating the free end.
When the same test is done with the cable flexed 180 degrees (or some
other geometric form that resembles the cable as installed in the
aircraft, there is significant free motion at the free end. If this
motion is combined with a sticky control handle, accurate trim settings
are difficult to achieve. This is more annoying than anything else
since no safty problem has been reported. I dive tested my -4 to 200Kt
indicated an a cool day at approx 5000'. Don't know what the TAS was
but it likely was higher than 200 and there were no flight control
problems other than significant stiffening of the ailerons. The air was
smooth and I did not attempt to induce flutter.
I have not tested a short cable to see if lost motion is similar to that
in a long cable. My guess is that it would be about the same, perhaps
slightly less. Suggest you check it before committing to a course of
action. Again, it does not appear to be a safety issue (wiggle the trim
tabs on production airplanes, from Sea Furys and T-6's to Cessnas) but
rather one of personal preference. The electric option as designed by
Van has only the clevises and the hinge that might allow freedom of
movement since the servo is very tight. On the down side the tab
position may be hard to get right because of the speed of the servo. I
am by no means an expert on trim systems and I offer my opinions based
on personal observations.
G. Comfort
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
>Also, does anyone know a way to roll an edge after holes are drilled and
>dimpled nearby?
>
Rob,
Been there, done that. I was able to obtain acceptable results by rolling
the edge even thought it had been dimpled. The process goes a little
slower than normal. Do a "normal" roll between the rivet holes. Put a
slight roll in the material directly in front of the rivet hole. I other
words, push the tool all the way in when between rivets, roll it back and
forth a few times, pull it out just enough to clear the dimpled hole, roll
back and fourth a couple of times, push to tool all the way in again when
between the next two rivets and repeat.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele (N506RV)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric elevator trim - An alternative approach |
>
>
>(snip) A much
>> shorter cable would put the servo on the flat F-614 deck under the tail
>> surfaces, where it would be accessible by removing the F-694B fiberglass
>> fairing.
>
>Personally, I never want to take that perishing fibreglass fairing
>off once it's on. I used a Morse Controls type 32B cable of
>89 inches length. The servo sits just behind the elevator bellcrank
>on the other side of the rib.
>
>Peter Bennett
>Sydney Australia
>RV6 working inside fuselage
>
>
Peter,
... wasn't part of the reason for this modification the
requirement to remove the play in the original long trim cable? The cable
I used (24 inch overall) has no visible play, while the cable length you
mention is getting much closer to the original length.
.... just wondering ... Gil (short cable) Alexander
------------------------------------
RV6A, #20701
"REPLY" sends to entire RV-list
mailto:gila(at)flash.net to reply privately
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | Wing tip strobes |
The Van's catalog sells a kit for enclosing the position lights into the
wing tips. It says specifically though that it is not designed to
enclose strobes.
I was planning to install the lighting configuration which has position
lights & strobes in the forward facing wing tip fairings with a combo
white/strobe light in the rudder.
I assume others have installed this configuration. If so, how did you
put the strobes into the wing tips? Is there another kit to use, was it
scratchbuilt or does the Van's kit work with some caveat?
Thanks,
-Mike
Planning on closing the left wing very soon now
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge bend |
> Also, does anyone know a way to roll an edge after holes are drilled and
> dimpled nearby?
I have done this more than once. I found a nifty way to solve it was to
make a spacer out of a 1/8" thick wood, disk-shaped, the dia. of the edge
rolling tool, cut out the middle for the rollers, and tape it to the
tool to serve as a spacer. Then I could use the tool and miss the
rollers. Actually since I have forgotten more than once to roll the
edge before dimpling, I keep the spacer around and have used it several
times. It is harder to keep from rolling off the edge, but it works.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Shock mounting Instrument Panels |
I mounted my AS, TC (Navaid autopilot), AI, DG, ALT and VSI on a raised panel
using those 1/2" Instrument Shock Mounts (10 of them in all). This system
seems to isolate the panel somewhat however, my engine runs smooth anyway.
The added bonus is that I have a removal panel for easyer instrument access.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Electronics Question |
Hello, Has any one installed or know the Westach EGT & CHT kit that Spruce
sells? It is the type that has the 3 position switch.
Also several of are interested in the ExpBus DC load center from
Control Vision. Anyone have a any knowlege on this unit? I am installing one
Light Speed CDI ignition and considering doing a dual system, with standby
battery.
denny h. RV-6, fuselege
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rust47rg(at)one.net |
| Subject: | Re: Wing tip strobes |
>
>The Van's catalog sells a kit for enclosing the position lights into the
>wing tips. It says specifically though that it is not designed to
>enclose strobes.
>
>I was planning to install the lighting configuration which has position
>lights & strobes in the forward facing wing tip fairings with a combo
>white/strobe light in the rudder.
>
>I assume others have installed this configuration. If so, how did you
>put the strobes into the wing tips? Is there another kit to use, was it
>scratchbuilt or does the Van's kit work with some caveat?
>
>Thanks,
>-Mike
Those that use RMD's tip landing light system often enclose the
strobe/position light combo inside. I did and it works fine.
Regards:
Rusty Gossard
N47RG RV-4 Flying since 8-94
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mauser(at)Claris.COM (Richard Chandler) |
ASCII graphics work much better if you do not use tabs in them. Every system
treats them differently, but a space is a space.
--
Richard Chandler
RV-6: Garage bought and being finished, saving for tools and tail kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing tip strobes (enclosed) |
<< I was planning to install the lighting configuration which has position
lights & strobes in the forward facing wing tip fairings with a combo
white/strobe light in the rudder.
I assume others have installed this configuration. If so, how did you
put the strobes into the wing tips? Is there another kit to use, was it
scratchbuilt or does the Van's kit work with some caveat?
Thanks,
-Mike
Planning on closing the left wing very soon now
>>
Mike:
I've done three sets using the (about $80) lenses from Chief Aircraft. This
isn't the cheapest way to get lights on the tips (Van's setup is), but it's
one way I've seen to get the strobes enclosed out there (using the standard
tip). The white & blue Rocket shown in Hovan's web page has these.
The directions have lots of pictures (good- I hate reading directions), and
the final fit is as good as your fiberglass work. I put the nutplates in with
-3 pop rivets, tho.
I sell the strobe/nav setup that fits these lenses- Aeroflash brand - for
~$325 for the set (dang - I can never find that slippery price list!).
Contact me off the list if you need a set of these.
Option 2:
You could get the larger lens that encloses the landing (recognition?) light-
I think the strobe will fit under that one, too. It replaces almost the
entire nose section of the tip, and it's advertised in Van's Optional Parts
Catalog.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge bend |
> I have done this more than once. I found a nifty way to solve it was to
> make a spacer out of a 1/8" thick wood, disk-shaped, the dia. of the edge
> rolling tool, cut out the middle for the rollers, and tape it to the
> tool to serve as a spacer. Then I could use the tool and miss the
> rollers.
Oops -- meant to say "miss the dimples."
Randall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electronics Question |
>
>Hello, Has any one installed or know the Westach EGT & CHT kit that Spruce
>sells? It is the type that has the 3 position switch.
>
I have no first hand experience with Westach instruments. About three years
ago, Van told me that he had nothing but problems with the Westach
instruments and to stay away from them. Others have said the same thing.
That was enough for me to look elsewhere.
Scott Gesele (N506RV)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dual Brakes - Shuttle Valves |
54-57,59,61-63,65-68,70-75
| From: | gasobek(at)juno.com (Gary A. Sobek) |
I just spent 30 minutes looking through my library trying to find a
single engine general aviation aircraft that uses a shuttle valve in the
brake system. I have not found any. Please advise what certificated
single engine aircraft uses a shuttle valve in the brake system?
It appears that most trainers use a mechanical linkage between the pilot
and co-pilot brakes. (C-150) This creates an system that adds their
applied pressures .
Shuttle valves are typically used in hydraulic systems to allow fluid to
flow from the source with the most pressure. The one with the most
pressure controls the device. A small amount of fluid must flow to make
the shuttle valve operate. This dual brake system would create more
peddle travel.
I used Van's designed system in my TAILDRAGGER. It is simple, easy to
install, light weight and affordable. Who manufactures your brake system
shuttle valve? How much do they weigh? How much does it cost? What
distributors stock them? How hard is it to install? Does Van approve of
its use? If it is lighter, easier to install, and cost less, will Van
offer it in their catalog?
In the series flow brake system, the brake peddle with the most pressure
applied would have its force applied to the brakes. It does not add. In
a parallel system with a shuttle valve, the peddle with the most pressure
applied would have its force applied to the brakes. When the shuttle
valve leaks, fluid could flow back to the reservoir and reduce braking.
In a system as used in the C150 where the peddles are mechanically linked
to single master cylinders, the force would be added.
If I have any errors, please post a reply. I did not have a perfect
score on my airframe written. I only got a 99%. The only question I
missed was NOT on hydralics or brakes.
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 20480 N157GS
FAA licensed A & P
writes:
---------- snip ----------
>Let's say (per Van's plans) that the reservoir feeds the upper ports on
the
---------- snip ----------
>series cascading dual braking system.
>
---------- snip ----------
>I don't pretend to understand all I know about this, but it seems to me
that
>the parallel system using shuttle valves as in certificated aircraft
prevents
>the additive forces and provides a more predictable braking force. The
>stronger force prevails always, no matter who applied it first. The
>instructor can always counter any force that the student is able to
>provide. The series system is simpler and is probably okay as long as
both you
>and the pax are not trying to use it at once. I probably wouldn't use
it
>on a taildragger though.
>
>If anyone else has a better understanding of this situation (Elon?)
perhaps
>you will be kind enough to share your knowledge. Maybe someone (Fluid
>Systems Engineer?) can better articulate and contrast what is actually
>happening in the series vs parallel systems under the variety of
>timing and force conditions likely to be encountered in normal
operation. The
>information I have presented is what I heard from those whose opinions I
>value and is the extent of my knowledge on this topic.
>
>-Gary VanRemortel
>vanremog(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "vern" <vern(at)ldd.net> |
| Subject: | attn: Matte-----everyone else can ignore |
Matte
I assume you have taken me off the list for some reason as I haven't gotten
any rv-list now for a week or so. My server had been a little slow but I
don't think that would have caused you any errors. At any rate I am now on
another phone line and things are working out much better. I am getting
other mail just fine (always did though). Please put me back on the list,
or let me know if there is another problem.
Vern Lemasters
vern(at)ldd.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Leading edge bend |
> Are the RV wing nose/main skins overlapped spanwise as well as chordwise or
> is the wing flat on the bottom. I don't recall?
The spanwise joints on the wing skins are butt-jointed.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electronics Question |
Denny Harjehausen wrote:
>
>
> Hello, Has any one installed or know the Westach EGT & CHT kit that Spruce
> sells? It is the type that has the 3 position switch.
>
> Also several of are interested in the ExpBus DC load center from
> Control Vision. Anyone have a any knowlege on this unit? I am installing one
> Light Speed CDI ignition and considering doing a dual system, with standby
> battery.
>
> denny h. RV-6, fuselege
>
I inquired to the list about the Exp Bus recently, my feelings after
reading the postings and reviewing the archives was that the system has
yet to be tried and tested. I'm staying with plain old breakers and
stuff I can work on.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi,
Two questions regarding the RV-6Q (tip up version)
1) When installing the roll bar (dwg 39), what is the longitudinal
position of the roll bar assembly in relation to F605F? Figure A-A does
not have F605F pictured.
2) Should the F674 skin completely cover the side surface of the roll
bar?
Thanks in advance,
Glenn Gordon
--=20
MZ=90
________________________________________________________________________________
<9106B0327B3ACF11ACEF00805FD47A0B028AA865@RED-67-MSG.dns.microsoft.com>
| From: | Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing tip strobes |
>
>The Van's catalog sells a kit for enclosing the position lights into the
>wing tips. It says specifically though that it is not designed to
>enclose strobes.
Chief Aircraft sells a similar kit designed to also cover strobes.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
installing electrical and avionics
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Thanks on the electronics |
Well back to the hunt for the EGT & CHT. Thanks for the input Bob and Scott.
denny h. RV-6 Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing tip strobes |
<< The Van's catalog sells a kit for enclosing the position lights into the
wing tips. It says specifically though that it is not designed to
enclose strobes. >>
The RMD system is designed to enclose both a landing light, position light
and strobe in the forward end of the wingtip. See the Yeller Pages for
Robert's number. It is a beautiful fixture but is a little pricey. You
still need to provide your own position and strobe lamp assemblies
(A650-PG/PR) from Whelen, but the landing lamp and mounting assembly is
provided.
This is the system worn by Scott McDaniels' plane, Miss March of '97 (RV
Calendar).
-GV
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| From: | Greg Puckett <GNPUCKETT(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Wing tip strobes |
Mike wrote:
>I assume others have installed this configuration. If so, how did you
>put the strobes into the wing tips? Is there another kit to use, was it
>scratchbuilt or does the Van's kit work with some caveat?
>
>Thanks,
>-Mike
Mike,
On page 41 of my 1996v2 Chief Aircraft catalog there is a kit for the
nav/strobe lens and mount kit for RV's. It looks like it is what you are
talking about and the price in that book is $69.95. The picture shown looks
good and just like what I had in mind, but I too would like to see it in
person or hear from others on how they flush mounted wing pos/strobe.
Greg Puckett RV-8 80081
gnpuckett(at)compuserve.com
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| From: | Robert Fritz <75303.1623(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Helmets and bird strikes |
As a long time biker I enthusiastically wore a helmet in even the hottest
weather.
However...........
A helmet is going to do absolutely zip for you if the bird hits anywhere below
the eyebrows. Unless, of course you wear a full-face helmet or wear the helmet
backwards.
It would seem to me that irrational paranoia is creeping in here. How often do
any you plan to fly through a flock of gulls? Yes, I know that it happens.
However, at my airport we've got 10 lb. jackrabbits running across the runway
all the time but I'll be damned if I'll fit a locomotive cow-catcher between the
wheels.
Risk is relative it has to be seen in the context of probability or we'll all
hide under the bed waiting for the next asteroid to cream us.
But then what good is the opinion of a guy who used to spend his weekends
cleaning the inside windows of the shark tank at the SF Aquarium!
Cheers
Bob Fritz
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| From: | kevin lane <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Hope everyone doesn't think I'm cluttering up the list lately. Next
question, removing studs from the engine block. I've tried screwing on two
nuts, tightening them against one another and then attempting to extract the
stud. When the torque approached stripping the nuts out I then tried
putting a torch to the aluminum. This scares the hell out of me, not
knowing how much and how fast I can safely heat things. I assume heating
just the stud would have the opposite effect desired. I have the forward
prop govenor studs(?) and the vacuum pump studs to possibly remove, although
I could work around them.
other note: Bill B says those are forward gov. mounting studs. I can tell
something was attached there because of the absence of blue paint, but what
is puzzling is that the D2J has a solid crank and the guy I bought the
engine from had the prop too, FP aluminum. The case has an unmachined pad
above the studs, similar to the unmachined gov. pad on the accessory case.
Don't C/S props require hollow cranks?(Sorry Mr. Maroon Marauder, non-IVO
C/S props :=) I know, just quit worrying and pound rivets. kevin RVIA
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| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Dual Brakes - Shuttle Valves |
<< Who manufactures your brake system shuttle valve?>>
Hoof Products Model A22. It is Piper P/N 492-037 so it must be used in one
of their crates.
<< How much do they weigh?>>
About 2-3 ounces each I would guess but I haven't actually weighed them.
They are all aluminum construction with a blue anodized finish just like AN
fittings.
<< How much does it cost?>>
$50 each
<< What distributors stock them?>>
AVPAC division of Duncan Aviation @ 800-228-1836, Lincoln, NE is the one I
used.
<< How hard is it to install?>>
Very straightforward. I described details of the installation in an earlier
posting.
<< Does Van approve of its use?>>
Van hasn't the time to explore the finer details of braking systems. He goes
with simple systems that have been shown to work. This other system is just
that, another system. I wouldn't get wrapped around the axle about it.
Chevy and Ford even do things differently on occasion.
<< If it is lighter, easier to install, and cost less, will Van offer it in
their catalog? >>
Unlikely, because it has none of the attributes you mention. I'm told that
it just works better and that, of course, is going to be subjective, and
experimental. You can be sure that if it doesn't work well, you'll hear
about it here later this year.
-Gary VanRemortel
vanremog(at)aol.com
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| From: | tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com (John T. Craig-Stearman) |
>Van announced some time ago that there will be an RV-8A, which like
>the
>RV-6A is a trike.
>
>Bill
>
Bill,
Say it ain't so! You're gonna hang a NOSEwheel on that beautiful
airplane?! Don't do it!
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com
RV-4 engine mount successfully drilled
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| From: | "Gregory L. Wright" <PICASEL(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing tip strobes |
Michael;
There is a unit sold by Chiefs that will accomodate both nav lights and
strobes in the wing tip
if your intent is to use the leading edge taxi / landing light setup.
Thats the setup
I will use. ordering them tomorrow.
G.L. Wright
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| From: | BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net (Chris Brooks) |
| Subject: | Re: Wing tip strobes |
Mike, I bought a kit to enclose the wingtip position and strobes. The
kit is called "Perfect Tip" is produced by AirTech
(510) 685-4809 and cost $149.50. Vans had one of the kits on display in
thier tent at OshKosh but I haven't seen them in thier catalog. They are
similar to the lights offered by Chief Aircraft but Chief only has a
lens and you fabricate the mount whereas the "Perfect Tip" has the mount
included.
Chris Brooks
BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net
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| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing tip strobes |
Mike,
I used vans lenses in my wing tips in exactly the configuration your
describing. The nav and strobe assy from wheelin fit just fine. I have no
regrets they have always worked fine.
Another consideration if you dont mind spending some extra cash, is a wing
tip kit from RMD. The kit includes a wing tip landing light all the wire for
the nav and landing light, the lens and lens frame. This is a first class
installation. The bonus is you dont have to cut up your leading edge for a
landing light.
Ryan
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| From: | Fred New <fred(at)ics.ee> |
| Subject: | Re: ASCII Graphics |
On Mon, 31 Mar 1997, Richard Chandler wrote:
> ASCII graphics work much better if you do not use tabs in them. Every sy=
stem=20
> treats them differently, but a space is a space.
They also work better if you use a fixed-pitch font for building and
viewing them.
--
Fred New IC Systems (372) 656-5477
Systems Administrator Mustam=E4e tee 12 fax (372) 656-5476
fred(at)ics.ee EE0006 Tallinn, Estonia
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| From: | Elon <elon.o(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Hi Matt:
What is the prognosis for your Archive, CD-ROM project?
Elon
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| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: what tools required for a 6qb |
The QB requires all the same tools that a non QB kit would require, you do
not get away with any less tools. Just shorter build time....George Orndorff
QB ser#1
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March 22, 1997 - April 01, 1997
RV-Archive.digest.vol-cq