RV-Archive.digest.vol-cw
May 15, 1997 - May 26, 1997
ftp.matronics.com
Wew, it feels good to be back!
Matt Dralle
RV-List Admin.
Matronics
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall warning device |
Thanks to all who have replied about the device that was featured in the
RV-ator; somehow I missed seeing that. I'll be checking on it right
away. However, I am still interested in a salvaged device if anyone
locates one, until I determine whether the one in the RV-ator is
acceptable for me. Thanks again for all the help.
PatK - RV-6A - SN23264
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Priming many parts at once |
Rob Rimbold wrote:
>
> Has anyone else painted large numbers of parts at once? How did you
> remember which part was which? Any advice is welcome! Thanks in
> advance.
I have used several techniques. Many parts are unique and obvious, such
as the left and right HS spar flanges, so I don't even bother marking
them. For the numerous small bits, I use masking tape which my painter
transfers to the wires that he hangs the pieces on to paint them, then
puts them back on the dry part. For large pieces like the wing ribs, I
punch mark them on the web. The punches show up and I can tell which
part is which by counting the dots. By the way, the primed pieces for
the wing spar still had readable scribed markings from Van's. I have
also seen some of my Sharpie markings visible, even after etching,
alodining, and priming. I would not rely on this, though, because a
heavy hand with the primer or a too-long soak in the etching fluid could
obliterate the markings.
PatK - RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | rv-6 rudder pedals |
Hi,
RE: RV-6 rudder positioning.
The drawing show to position the UHMW Plastic blocks 4" from the
firewall, more or less to suit your needs. =20
Obviously I can only move them as far forward as full deflection with
the brake depressed will allow as to not hit the firewall. How far is
that from the firewall? I don't have the Vertical & Rudder installed
yet, so I can't really figure out how much fore and aft movement will be
required by the pedals.=20
Thanks in advance,
Glenn Gordon
--=20
MZ=90
________________________________________________________________________________
<< randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
>>
I would be interested about halfway between A&B for a patch which I could sew
on myself. Gives me the option of where to place it. Not much interested in
another hat.
Gene Francis cafgef(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: How to prime lots of pieces at once? |
<< Stamping the numbers into the aluminum is a possibility, but presents
dangers of its own. Another alternative would be to make a part
number map of the pieces as they lay on the painting stand and
re-write the numbers on top of the primer with a Sharpie pen after the
paint dries.
Has anyone else painted large numbers of parts at once? How did you
remember which part was which? Any advice is welcome! Thanks in
advance. >>
After cleaning, just use a sharpie to write the number on. It will show
through the primer
Jon Scholl
RV6
bcg007(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <RNuckolls(at)compuserve.com> |
/It is important to check the DC rating on the switch. =
/You will note that many of the RS Switches only have =
/AC ratings. =
There are about 100 ways for manufacturer's to "rate"
thier switches. I know of at least 20 different
specifications in the military documents alone. The
way switches are used in airplanes (less than 500
operations per year) the mechanical ratings of about
ANY switch will give good service in an airplane.
Generally speaking, a switch that is suited for =
10 amps at 125 volts AC will perform well at 10
ams and 14 volts DC. The most important aspect of
switch selection for d.c. operation is how "snappy"
it is.
I'll quote an excerpt from the AeroElectric Connection's
opening for the chapter on switches . . . .
-----
Switches, relays and contactors are a family of basic =
devices used to control flow of current in an electrical =
system. The generic switch has been around from the =
very beginning of electrification. Houses were convert=1F
ed from gas or oil to electrical illumination by literally =
fastening lamp fixtures to ceilings, switches to walls and =
connecting the whole mess together with wires that =
were stapled to the surface. Even in these rudimentary =
beginnings, switches were constructed to accomplish =
connection or disconnection of electrical circuits with a =
snap. As one rotated the handle of an early light =
switch, a feeling of winding up a spring was unmistaka=1F
ble. At some point, tension was sufficient to push =
internal parts past a detent and the switch would =
complete its operation with a "click"; a sudden release =
of tension could be felt in the fingers.
=
The need for snap action was well understood, espe=1F
cially in the early days of domestic power distribution. =
Most houses were first supplied with direct current =
(d.c.) in contrast with present day systems which supply =
alternating current (a.c.). In the section on over voltage =
protection I described special design efforts required =
to control the fire between spreading relay contacts =
which are attempting to bring a failed alternator/regu=1F
lator system under control. When d.c. was routed to =
our ancestors homes, the problem of controlling high =
voltage had to be addressed. In this instance, the high =
d.c. voltage was not developed by a collapsing magnetic =
field. The voltage was already high; 100 volts or so as =
delivered to the back of the house!
=
A simpler device known as a knife switch was universal =
in industrial applications. It operates in a manner which =
is suggested by its name: a blade of conductive material =
was moved by an insulated handle so that it was forced =
between two spring loaded leaves of conductive materi=1F
al thus making a connection. Breaking connection was =
accomplished by simply pulling the blade from between =
the leaves. =
=
My earliest recollection of knife switches is from old =
black and white movies. The good Doctor Frankenstein, =
standing over his patient, is yelling instructions to Igor =
who manipulates many switches and knobs on the =
laboratory apparatus. Operation of these switches is =
always accompanied with flashes of fire and puffs of =
smoke. The effects were undoubtedly enhanced for the =
benefit of the movie viewers, but then fire and smoke =
was not totally out of character for this type of switch. =
Indeed, hesitant or sloppy operation of a knife switch in =
a high voltage circuit would produce long, hot blue =
sparks accompanied by subsequent damage to the switch.
=
Purveyors of early electrification products and services =
knew that consumers would not be favorably impressed =
with little fires and puffs of smoke at their fingertips. =
Snap action switches were developed in a successful =
attempt to keep "lights" off of walls and up on ceilings =
where they belonged! Control of high voltage d.c. using =
snap action switches required no instruction or special =
action on the part of the switch operator. A child could =
easily accomplish a making or breaking of connection. =
Thus children began to "make" more connections than =
they "broke" and the seeds of eternally illuminated =
children's bedrooms were planted. They thrive to this =
day!
--------------------------
14 volt d.c. circuits DO NOT fall into the "too hard"
pile for controlling arcing at contacts. The battery
contactor should have a diode or MOV across its coil
to corral inductive kickback, the starter contactor too.
Landing lights are the only devices with a
potentially high inrush and this is generally limited
to about 5X due to wire losses; a 50 amp inrush isn't
going to kill a switch with a few operations. I like
to call people's attention to the switches used on thousands
of Cessna 150's. I'll guarantee you those little plastic
rockers cost under $1 when they were originally installed.
The vast majority of them are still in service after 30
years. The C-150 I fly the most has all original switches
and the airplane has over 3000 hours on it.
/They almost certainly have gold contacts on the switches =
/and probably would only support low current DC unless =
/specifically stated that they can support higher currents. =
Gold is used only on very LOW current switches and it
is easily burned away if the switch's current ratings
are exceeded even for an instant. You won't find any
ordinary switches that use gold contacts.
/Putting high current DC through these switches could =
/possibly result in arc over and welded contacts.
I've never seen a welded contact in a hand operated switch.
Contactors do it regularly and that's mostly due to contact
wear and metal transfer after many operations. Even the
very best Cuttler-Hammer "aircraft quality" contactors
weld shut and or burn up . . got one on my desk right now
that came out of a KingAir air conditioning system. Sucker
is pure toast! Except for an occasional sticking starter
contactor (you need a starter energized light on panel !!!)
stuck contacts in single engine airplanes are VERY rare.
/Automobile switches would work fine but do check the =
/rating of the switch first.
Except for landing light and pitot heat, most airplane
power control circuits are quite light . . . Even if
you OVERLOAD a switch to 200% of its "rating" you may
reduce it's laboratory life from 50,000 cycles down
to 5,000 cycles . . . how long is it going to take you
to "wear out" that switch in your airplane?
Pick switches with substantial mechanical "feel" and
good construction. Wiring terminals should be secure
in the housing and not "wiggle" when pushed on. And yes,
get a switch good for 7-10 amps and it will work fine
about anywhere in your airplane.
/RS do have some miniature toggles with high current =
/DC contacts - my catalogue is in the office and I =
/am a home wid a code so I can't dig out the numbers.
The miniature toggles are generally limited to 5 amps
and they have pretty close contact spacing when open.
I do not recommend these devices for power control in
airplanes. They're fine for audio and instrumentation
switching or power control under an amp or so.
/Are automobile switches of suitable quality for =
/fitting into our Europa? I have looked high and low for =
/suitable DC rated units without much joy. Is there a =
/common divider to work out a dc rating for an ac rated switch? =
The terms "quality" and "rating" are certainly unquanitified
terms and in the context of this discussion, pretty meaningless.
We need to learn failure tolerant design . . ASSUME that
EVERYTHING you put in is going to fail at some point in
time. If you need it for comfortable completion of flight,
have a backup system. If NOT don't worry about it. In any
case, the only reason for upgrading the QUALITY of a part
should be because you're tired of replacing it, not because
it damned near got you killed.
Then it doesn't matter WHAT kind of switches you use. I
hightly recommend the standard toggles that mount in 15/32"
round holes. They are universally produced by hundreds
of manufacturers, they are available with .25" fast-on tabs
for easy installation and replacement. My idea of the
ideal switch is one that can be replaced in 5 minutes for
$5, sitting in the pilot's seat with only a nut-driver in =
hand.
Regards,
Bob . . . =
AeroElectric Connection
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Beckham <76623.1166(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: High Horsepower Ivoprop |
Jim:
Thanks for followup on Ivoprop used on Lycoming IO-720. Specifically we are
interested in direct feedback from users regarding regarding all facets of
experience with this or other alternate in-flight adjustable propellers. We are
interested in related experience on four and six cylinder engines, including the
total number of hours flown on each installation. Due to relatively low cost of
our 200 h.p. engines vs. Lycoming, cost (and weight) are very important factors.
If we can't find a safe, cost-effective inflight adjustable prop (need not be
constant-speed) then we will proceed with analysis of Hartzell CS installation
on the Powersport-Mazda.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Foord <dfoord(at)ping.net.au> |
| Subject: | B&C Lightweight starters |
I had a B&C Lightweight starter from new on my RV6. In the 160 or so =
hours it flew I had about five failures all to do with not throwing in. =
I faxed lycoming who said they no longer ship these starters because of =
problems with the throw in solenoid. Does anyone know of a mod program =
or upgrade for these starters? I am now using a skytek starter. I have a =
near new but useless B&C in the garage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Foord <dfoord(at)ping.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: ELECTRIC ARTIFICIAL HORIZON |
>Hi Fellow Listers
>
>I have just heard about electric AH's that are available from
>decommissioned military aircraft (Noel, they are the Bosboks): some new,
>some overhauled - but all with green (military) tags. They are priced =
>at
>about $200,00 each. =20
>
>The catch, however, is that they are 28 volt instruments. Is it =
>practical
>to buy or design a power supply for the AH - it seems to me that at =
>$200,00
>there is room for spending something on a power supply.
YES. I HAVE USED AN AIM 28 VOLT ELECTRIC A/H ON MY 14 VOLT RV 6. I CAN =
SUPPLY POWER SUPPLIES THAT WILL SUIT.
I THINK THE BEST THING ABOUT ELECTRIC INSTRUMENTS IS THAT 90 % OF ALL =
GYRO FAILURES ARE CAUSED BY AIR CONTAMINATION IN VAC INSTRUMENTS. THE =
SUPPLY IS ABOUT 3" BY 5" BY 1.5" AND HAS THREE SCREW TERMINALS. 12 VOLTS =
IN, GROUND AND 24 VOLTS OUT. ANYONE WHO WANTS ONE SHOLUD EMAIL ME AT =
dfoord(at)ping.net.au. My rv is rv of the week this week on vans site.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <RNuckolls(at)compuserve.com> |
rv-list
Gold is used only on very LOW current switches and it =
is easily burned away if the switch's current ratings =
are exceeded even for an instant. You won't find any =
ordinary switches that use gold contacts. =
=
/The ever popular RS catalogue from England has two =
/major ranges of switches with gold contacts. From their =
/size and quality they look ideal for aircraft use and =
/it was to these I was referring - specifically look for DC rating.
Hmmm . . . interesting. On a quick check the US Radio Shack catalog
I don't find listings for any sort of gold finish on switches.
I do recall an increasingly popular line of high-power automotive
audio components sold here in the states that refers to "gold
plating" on the contact surfaces. I've ordered in some of these
devices (fuse holders for the medium size cartridge fuses) and
I'm a bit suspicious of the nature of the plating. It's a super
glossy finish . . . not unlike the gloss you see on "chrome" plated
plastics which is indeed an aluminum finish. Knowing what I
pay to have gold added to etched circuit card fingers and comparing
the price of plated versus non-plated fuseholders, I'd sure like
to know what the finish REALLY is . . . =
In electronics parts, there are miniature relays that offer
a gold flash on their 2 amp contacts. The gold is useful
for maintaining a very low resistance for what is called
"dry circuit" switching (tens of milliamps or less). If one
never runs the rated 2 amps through these relays, the gold
stays intact and they perform very well at the low currents.
Run a few cycles at 2 amps and the gold is gone . . . the relay
still performs as a power relay but never again as a dry-relay.
Just went through a problem diagnosis with a customer where
their functional test department set up automated test equipment
based on the relay's power rating and without regard to the
application (switching thermocouple leads). Needless to say,
their final test proceedure was killing the product before it
ever got into a box for shipment! I did a design for B&C a couple
of years ago that uses 9 very tiny, relays to switch a fist full
of wires from an ILS/VOR/OBS head between a NAV/COMM and GPS
receivers. I cautioned them to do all final assembly continuity =
testing with very low currents lest they trash their product.
/I can send you a couple if you want. I learnt a long time ago that the =
/RS gold connectored switches don't like high current DC. 15A DC is not=
=
/the same as 15A AC! Luckily it was only on a home build computer =
/(yes, it drew 15A at 5v and still only had 2k of memory!!). Took me so=
me =
/time to work out why those switches kept failing though.
Yes, I would like to see what they look like. I might even take my
fuseholders and your switches down to a local lab for a "look-see" as
to plating material. To be sure, there are differences between DC
and AC . . . one of the best examples I can think of is that welders
much prefer a DC welder to an AC one . . . DC welders use stabilizing
inductors to achieve a quasi-constant current mode. This allows much =
more latitude in electrode-to-workpiece spacing without having the
arc's "heat" run all over the place . . . much easier to weld with.
Now, if you really wanted to weld some switch or relay contacts, DC
is going to be the prefered weapon . . . AC goes through zero-volts
every few milliseconds . . . the arc fires tend to go out and not
re-light.
/The RS ones are rated to 10A DC but ditto.
I'd like to see one of these too . . . Miniature switches on this side=
of the pond tend to be on the class of C&K 7000 series toggles. I use
a lot of these in test equipment, audio panels, instrumentation loads,=
etc . . . I am looking at a line of miniature rockers current offered=
in the Digi-Key catalog and rated in the 10AMP class . . . they have a=
decent "snap" to them. I've been using them in some panel mounted tri=
m
controllers and my customers seem to like their look and feel. They'v=
e
asked about using the same switch for power panels. I'll do some furth=
er
testing/investigation and see if it makes sense.
NOW, for the FEW heavy current loads (lights, pitot heat, ect) on coul=
d
consider using relays to boost the switche's capabilities. Low cost,
30 amp relays with fast-on terminals are readily available. This runs=
contrary to my keep-it-simple rule but then complexity goes ONLY to
reliability issues . . . higher parts count, lower reliability. If one=
really liked the look and feel of smaller switches, there are ways to
accomodate the interest. If we've done our homework and depend upon n=
o
single system for comfortable completion of flight, then FLIGHT SYSTEM=
=
reliability is not compromised by a slight reduction in the reliabilit=
y
of a single lighting system, etc.
/Its also a hell of a lot easier making round holes that it is =
/making square ones I can tell you!!
You got that right. BTW, are you aware of a cutting tool called a
"spot facer"? These are intended to produce smooth, perpendicular
bolt, nut and washer surfaces on irregular or rough shapes. They
are available in many sizes and use a pilot hole to guide on. Used
in a hand drill they cut VERY nice holes in sheet metal. The don't
snag and rip through like a twist drill. I'll be stocking 1/4" and
15/32" tools when our website catalog gets up and running. Use
one of these once and you'll never go back to the old way.
/Does anyone use solid state switching in light aircraft? That would =
/allow the use of smaller panel switches. I use sold state switching b
/with cheap toggles extensively on my model railway now - primarily =
/because it was cheaper than buying quality switches. Solid state =
/switching is used extensively throughout production control systems =
/and within robotics, even to the point of being used in life critical =
/equipment but you don't hear of anyone doing it in light aircraft - ye=
t.
Oh you bet! This is a logical, more modern follow-on to the relay-boos=
t
technique I described above. I've been watching the development of
power field-effect transistors for over 10 years. N-channel devices go=
od
for 50-70 amps are quite inexpensive and with VERY LOW on resistance;
under 10 milliohms. This is important because you DON'T want to
use a heat sink to cool the transistor if you don't have to. N-channel=
devices are quite practical now but they need a "boostrap" supply to
turn them on solidly . . . gate has to be more positive than bus by
about 6 volts or so.
International Rectifier has brought some photo-voltaic opto-couplers
out that provide a 5-10 volt output as opposed to simply being a switc=
h.
I'm going to look at combining these with power fets to do the boost
you suggest. P-channel devices are looking quite good too . . . some
now below .02 ohms in the higher current ratings. These can be used =
"upside-down" with source attached to bus and you pull down on the =
gate with your low current switch. . . . . This is a VERY practical
alternative to relays . . . no open contacts to corrode, weld, wearout=
,
etc. . . . I'm planning some articles on the subject . . probably not
until next fall. Got lots of things on my plate for the summer and thr=
ough
OSH.
Regards,
Bob . . . =
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Grounding questions |
Bob:
Your comments on the rv-list about B&C's ground bus prompted me to get some
literature from them. I know have some questions for you, if you don't
mind:
1. Does this B&C ground bus have a stud on both sides, or just the side
with the stab-on connectors? I ask because it would be nice to mount it on
the back side (cabin side) of the firewall, with the ground lead running
from the crankcase to a stud sticking through the firewall.
2. Why stab-ons and not ring terminals? (I bought a zillion PIDG ring
terminals a while back, figuring I was all set.
I'm building an RV-6. Here's my original plan for grounding at the
instrument panel, would you care to comment on it:
1. 2 gauge from battery to crankcase
2. 2 gauge from crankcase to one of the AN5 bolts securing the engine mount
to the firewall.
3. Instrument panel grounds would be via a termminal strip (one of those
black bakalite strips with a double-row of screw terminals) mounted on the
bulkhead that is about 10 inches fwd of the instrument panel. This
terminal strip would be electrically grounded to the bulkhead via a short 8
gauge wire running from one end of the terminal strip to a #10 screw in the
bulkhead.
And one more question, if you don't mind: I looking for a source for
something I've been calling 'Solder Sleeve'. It is essentially a short
length of heat-shrinkable tubing. Inside the tubing there are one or two
rings of low-temp solder.
The purpose is to provide an easy way to make a connection to the braided
shielding of a shielded wire. You simply slide the solder sleeve over the
braid, slip a length of wire between the braid and the solder sleeve, and
hit it with a heat gun. The little ring of solder melts, connecting the
wire to the braid, and the heat-shrinkable tubing protects the connection.
If you know the proper name of this stuff and a source for it, I would
appreciate it.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry W. Johnson" <larryj(at)cetlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GLASTARNET: Switch Ratings |
In order to save processor time and paper in case some of you fellow
builders are saving these postings as hardcopy I am masking the posting
Re:GLASTARNET:Switch Ratings.
On the subject of Gold Plated Switch Contacts,if any of you are giving
them serious thoughts then please be aware that are about to spend some Big
Bucks.Good quality switches , circuit breakers , fuses , relays ,
relays , and wire,etc,are available at most of the major avionics and parts
distributors such as EDMO, ASI,
COOPER, HAWKINS and many more. It is true you can expect to pay a little
more but the difference in quality justifies price difference. In reference
to Digi-Key products you can get quality parts from them but you really
need to be product wise to determine what to buy and what not to buy.In
reference to Radio Shack switches I have personally tested just about
everything they have hanging on their walls.There ratings are true BUT the
rating is based on the switch being energized and why have a switch if you
have to keep it in the ON position.
On the subject of Circuit Breakers as opposed to Fuses, I go with the
Major manufacturers and opt for circuit breakers.It is a lot easier to spot
a tripped breaker than a fuse behind a cap or buried somewhere in
the wiring harness. BTW in Re: a previous posting about Rick Nelson's DC3
catching fire because of repeated resets of a breaker most Engineers and
Technicians agree that you should reset a breaker or replace a fuse ONCE,if
it blows again you should know you have a problem.Another not so well known
fact is the fuse or breaker is there to protect the wiring and not the
equipment it is wired to.
On the subject of Wire,don't cause yourselves problems by using cheap
wire.Tefsel or an equivalant is only pennies more per foot.
On the subject of switches rated at 110 volts AC versus 12 volts without
getting into the entricies of OHMS Law just take a look at a High Voltage
transmission line that carries say 28000 volts. For simplicity say it is a
half inch in diameter.How big would it be if the voltage were 110 volts and
serving the same number of users?
Previous comments are not a flame to anyone but just information.
Larry Johnson - GS 5297
Country Squire Avionics
Certified Repair Station UCNR851K
2129 Squire Road
Rock Hill,SC 29730
803-328-8777 Fax or Voice
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <RNuckolls(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Surplus gyros . . . |
/I have just heard about electric AH's that are available
/from decommissioned military aircraft (Noel, they are the
/Bosboks): some new, some overhauled - but all with green
/(military) tags. They are priced at about $200,00 each.
/The catch, however, is that they are 28 volt instruments.
/Is it practical to buy or design a power supply for the AH
/- it seems to me that at $200,00 there is room for spending
/something on a power supply.
/A fellow builder (not on the list) says that he recalls
/some or other warning by Bob Nuckolls about using non-12 volt
/instruments that on a 12 volt bus.
This isn't a problem in general but be sure you know
that they run on 28-volts DC and not 400 cycle AC.
VERY FEW gyros used by the military have built in
inverters. I don't doubt that these come out of airplanes
with 28 volt systems but the gyro MAY require a DC to AC
inverter.
Irrespective of their DC or AC voltage requirements,
it's no big deal to supply the needed power with either
a DC-DC up-converter (relatively easy) or a DC to AC inverter,
(a little harder). Ask someone to read you every word off
of the nameplate for the critters so you can be sure of
what you're getting.
Don't know where the gentleman got the "Nuckolls warning" cuz
it's done all the time.
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========oOOo=(_)=oOOo==========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Morrissey, John" <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au> |
| Subject: | How to prime lots of pieces at once? |
charset="iso-8859-1"
G'Day Rob,
I find that if I mark the part on the "Inside" (the side that's internal
to the structure) with a permanent marker, the part number will show
through most of the common primers discussed at great length on this
list. Before Van used plastic covered aluminum for his parts, I would
just clean up the edges of the parts and smooth off the radiuses and
paint them, the existing number would show through. This brings up
another point - your etch prime only needs to be a very thin coat!!!
The other thing to do is prime as required when required. The majority
of Van's kits are shipped to Australia via sea and we do not have any
problems with corrosion. Just make sure your storage area is dry and you
should be fine.
Good luck
John Morrissey
-----Original Message-----
From: apollo.hp.com!rimbold(at)matronics.com
[SMTP:apollo.hp.com!rimbold(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 1997 2:14 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Cc: kerrjb(at)aol.com
Subject: RV-List: How to prime lots of pieces at once?
Rimbold)
We received our RV6A kit (all of the kits, actually) today. It
arrived in the early afternoon, and by evening we were mostly
done
with the inventory. Now I've got a question about priming.
We'd like to prime as many pieces at once as we can, before we
start
building anything. Does anyone have advice as to how the part
numbers
(currently ink-stamped on the aluminum) can be best retained
after
priming?
Stamping the numbers into the aluminum is a possibility, but
presents
dangers of its own. Another alternative would be to make a part
number map of the pieces as they lay on the painting stand and
re-write the numbers on top of the primer with a Sharpie pen
after the
paint dries.
Has anyone else painted large numbers of parts at once? How did
you
remember which part was which? Any advice is welcome! Thanks
in
advance.
'Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
Ummmm....
Apologies to the list,
I made a statement about the firewall recess sitting at my work computer,
not next to my aeroplane. I said it the wrong way. Deep and heartfelt
apologies to all those who ripped out their recess.
Mea Culpa
Aaaarrrrgghhhhh!
leo
leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
(well I am down under)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com> |
There is an excellent article in EAAs May '97 "Experimenter" magazine on blind
rivets if you can find one to read.
Les Williams/RV-6AQB/N24LW (reserved)
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Dennis Persyk
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 1997 5:55 PM
Subject: RV-List: Blind Rivets
I'd like to share my recent experience with blind rivets with the list.
Our local chapter's Technical Counselor inspected my RV6A project and
questioned the mandrel breakage in the Avex rivets, mainly the LP4-3s. It
seems he was accustomed to Cherry rivets which have requirements that the
mandrel break at or above the level of the rivet head.
I called Van's and they faxed me the Avex spec sheet which says the
mandrels break off beneath the rivet head. In fact, they deem this a
product advantage, as there is no rivet head shaving required.
I passed this along to the counselor as we have a half-dozen or more RVs in
our chapter.
I assume from the spec sheet that in the case of Avex rivets, the mandrel
contributes little to the shear strength. As a reality check, I inspected
a friend's 6AQB, and the factory-installed LP4-3s had mandrels that were
from 1/32 to 5/32 below the top of the rivet head, some well below the
shear plane.
Happy riveting!
Dennis 6A fuselage in jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bennett(at)healey.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: Matronics.COM Back OnLine!!! |
>
>
>
> Hello RVrs!
>
> After a great deal of hair pulling, my ISP finally has the matronics.com
> domain back online! I have tested the email pretty well and it seems to
> be working normally again.
Matt, I hereby nominate you for the Ancient and Noble Order of the
Auger, presented to those who have been screwed around over and above
the call of duty.
Thanks for your persistence and sweat. We appreciate it.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 building sliding canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul and Janet Lein <37xjglj(at)cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu> |
I would like to talk to any pilots flying a RV6 with an IO360. I got an
IO360 from The Mod Shop in Florida so the engine decision is made now. I
am wondering about battery location and empty weight on finished
airplanes. Are there any Hoffman or MT props on an RV ? Thanks for any
leads.
Paul Lein
6a,starting the finish kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 Firewall Recess |
>
>The firewall recess is installed with the flat surface uppermost and the
>sloping portion towards the floor. I speak as someone who has installed it
>the other way and then removed it.
>
>Leo Davies
>leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
Leo,
I hope that you are referring to it's orientation while in the jig, when top
and bottom are reversed. The flat surface goes towards the bottom of the
aircraft and the sloped portion is towards the top of the aircraft. That is
how it is pictured in the accessories catalog, that is how I installed it
and my gov.and oil filter fit perfectly. My engine and gov. were new from
Van's. Possibly, other geometries of Lycoming engine need different
installations.
Top of aircraft (canopy goes here)
!\
! \
! \
! \
! \
! !
! !
-----
Bottom of aircraft (landing gear goes here)
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV (setting up paint booth)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | CHEAP NAVIGATION! |
FLYBUDDY LORAN C FOR SALE. $245 with instructions, database, tray. Like new,
hardly used. Includes c.o.d. shipping. E-mail to MAlexan533, or fax to
503-838-3834.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wes Hays <whays(at)tenet.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Matronics.COM Back OnLine!!! |
Thanks Matt. I really missed this.
Wes Hays,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bumflyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: rv-6 rudder pedals |
I went nuts trying to figure this out. You must consider the throw
requirement as you mentioned to avoid hitting the firewall, but also the leg
reach from your buttocks to the pedal, and finally the best angle of dangle
for the brake pedals. Since there are at least three critical factors in the
decision I would recommend keeping options open. Unless you are a really
short legged animal, put them as far forward as the oil filter recess will
allow. Then much later on you can put what ever length of steel strips to
give you the proper leg reach. For most of us putting the swivel point as
far forward and the bottom as far aft as possible will give you a "better"
angle of dangle on the brake pedals. For most of us this is the critical
factor due to the problem of inadvertent braking action while taxiing.
Because of that you will probably want the brake pedals tilted away from
your toes as far as you can get them. You will discover that the pedal
travel required to engage the brakes is essentially zero!
Lastly, to really keep your options open you might consider drilling a second
set of holes a half inch or so aft of the above starting point (on the
longeron angle and on the mid support) for later use
The reason for this tortuous litany is that this is one of those areas where
the facts are revealed to the builder one at a time in reverse order of when
you need to know, so it should be useful to all builders to get the benefit
of this experience.
For readers who cannot interpret all my double talk. Here is my bottom line
opinion: The first eyelet which the cables go through establishes an
aft limit for the pedals. Hitting the firewall establishes the forward
limit. Putting your swivel at the recommended four inches or slightly
forward of this will put you in the middle of these limits and will be just
right for 99% of builders.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry H. Prado" <jerryprado(at)wa.net> |
| Subject: | Surplus Instruments |
Does anyone have info on a Weston Model 888 type 3y2 CDI w/GS? I've been
told it's pin and signal compatible with a ki-209 but the connectors are
different.
Jerry Prado
6a, wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Grant E. Young" <gyoung(at)crl.nmsu.edu> |
Dear RV-listers,
Just wanted to let you know that I had my panel built by Frederick Custom
Airframe in Austin and they did a GREAT JOB. For those of you not
building your panel, I would highly recommend them. They did it in about
two weeks, and it cost about 1/2 (or less) of what the major shops
charge. IF you have any questions, please feel free to e-mail me personally.
On another note, it looks like this project (my RV-6) may come in a bit
under budget, and I was contemplating getting a hand-held GPS/comm. Any
consensus on the King vs. Garmin debate? Any info would be helpful. If
this has been discussed in detail previously, I apologize in advance.
grant-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Doug Gray/B & C Specialty |
| From: | ron.taborek(at)flight642.com (RON TABOREK) |
Doug Gray,
Could not reply to you directly. Hope you see this.
For B & C Specialty Email address is bcspec(at)southwind.net
Fax is 316-283-7400
Ron Taborek
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rv-6 rudder pedals |
| From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
>The drawing show to position the UHMW Plastic blocks 4" from the
>firewall, more or less to suit your needs. =20
>
>Obviously I can only move them as far forward as full deflection with
>the brake depressed will allow as to not hit the firewall. How far is
>that from the firewall? I don't have the Vertical & Rudder installed
>yet, so I can't really figure out how much fore and aft movement will
>be required by the pedals.=20
I had the same question about this. I never could get a hard and fast
answer on the maximum spacing. Someone at Van's said they thought 2" was
the absolute maximum and perhaps the pedals might hit at that spacing. I
ended up going with 3", and at 6'2"+ (evenly split between torso and
legs) it works well for me. In fact, I can move the seat forward one
notch and still fit. It looks like you could go another inch forward
(2") and still be okay, but unless you have REALLY long legs, I don't
think it would be necessary.
Ed Bundy RV6A N427EM first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle@roxy (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Questions About Fittings... |
Reading over the book "Firewall Forward" by Tony B., he makes a rather off
handed comment to the effect that 'nowadays people in the know don't use
thread sealant when making a connection with a standard AN fitting'. I'm
working on the fuel line installation now and there are a number of pipe
fittings involved. To seal or not to seal, that is the question. If the
answer is 'yes', what is the best thing to use? Is there something at the
local car parts store that would work?
Is thread sealant necessary for the flared tube connections?
Is there any reason why I shouldn't use a bulkhead fitting on the connection
that goes from the fuse to the wing tank?
As always, thanks for the input.
Matt Dralle
RV-4 N442RV (res)
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David J. Fitzgerald" <theredbaron(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Matronics.COM Back OnLine!!! |
Matt,
Just in time back on-line. The withdrawl was getting unbearable!!
You are doing a great service that we all appreciate.
maybe you should seek out a new ISP tho'...(service is everything)
--
-----------------------------------
David Fitzgerald
RV-8 Serial #80333
theredbaron(at)earthlink.net
-----------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scott.fink(at)Microchip.COM (Scott Fink) |
| Subject: | Re: Grounding questions |
--IMA.Boundary.032232468
Dave,
It is indeed called solder sleeve. One source for them is Newark
Electronics (local number for AZ is (602)966-6340), but they are quite
expensive, on the order of $1.00 to $1.50 from Newark, and must be ordered
in quantities of 100. Sorry about getting PHX specific on the list, but
you may also want to check with Tri-Tek electronics on either Dunlap or
Northern about 2 miles east of I17, they are in the phone book.
Scott Fink
And one more question, if you don't mind: I looking for a source for
something I've been calling 'Solder Sleeve'. It is essentially a short
length of heat-shrinkable tubing. Inside the tubing there are one or two
rings of low-temp solder.
The purpose is to provide an easy way to make a connection to the braided
shielding of a shielded wire. You simply slide the solder sleeve over the
braid, slip a length of wire between the braid and the solder sleeve, and
hit it with a heat gun. The little ring of solder melts, connecting the
wire to the braid, and the heat-shrinkable tubing protects the connection.
If you know the proper name of this stuff and a source for it, I would
appreciate it.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
--IMA.Boundary.032232468
SMTP
-0700
(firewall-user@prometheus-gate.Microchip.COM [198.175.253.129]) by
titan.Microchip.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA26272 for
smap (3.2)
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 14:50:18 -0700
From: Dave Barnhart <a.crl.com!barnhart(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: Grounding questions
--IMA.Boundary.032232468--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Grounding questions |
<< And one more question, if you don't mind: I looking for a source for
something I've been calling 'Solder Sleeve'. It is essentially a short
length of heat-shrinkable tubing. Inside the tubing there are one or two
rings of low-temp solder.
The purpose is to provide an easy way to make a connection to the braided
shielding of a shielded wire. You simply slide the solder sleeve over the
braid, slip a length of wire between the braid and the solder sleeve, and
hit it with a heat gun. The little ring of solder melts, connecting the
wire to the braid, and the heat-shrinkable tubing protects the connection.
If you know the proper name of this stuff and a source for it, I would
appreciate it. >>
Solder sleeves are indeed handy for making very robust shield terminations
and are readily available from industrial electrical supply houses
(Insulectro and others). They are commonly made by Raychem, and I think that
Ramtek is a second source. I will retrieve this info from the office and
post it to the list tonite.
I used them on my plane because I had a bunch, but you can accomplish
essentially the same thing with solder and shrink sleeving especially if you
use the sleeving with a meltable inner liner.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: High Horsepower Ivoprop |
41-42,44-49
| From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS) |
writes:
><76623.1166(at)CompuServe.COM>
>
>Jim:
(Snip)
>We are interested in related experience on four and six cylinder
engines,
>including the total number of hours flown on each installation. Due to
relatively
>low cost of our 200 h.p. engines vs. Lycoming, cost (and weight) are
very
>important factors.
>If we can't find a safe, cost-effective inflight adjustable prop (need
>not be constant-speed) then we will proceed with analysis of Hartzell CS
>installation on the Powersport-Mazda.
>
Hi All and Steve,
I missed my normal reading schedule in the last week. Thanks for getting
back on-line, Matt.
I talked to Scott at Velocity last week in Florida. (407) 589-1860
They have an Ivoprop Magnun prop on a Velocity with a 200 Hp Lyc. IO-360
and another Velocity with a Franklin O-350 220 Hp.
Scott said they have about 50 hours on each prop. They just got the high
pitch blades which matches their cruise requirements (engine RPM) very
well.
Scott said the West Coast factory planes from Velocity (Lincoln, Ca.)
were at Chino the same weekend their Ivoprop arrived in Lincoln.
The "normal" take-off roll on the Velocity seems looong on the fixed
pitch 180-200 Hp Velocity's I've watched (2,000+ foot ground roll).
The only flight report that Scott had after the Ivoprop was installed on
the west coast Velocity was that they are still trying to figure out what
to hold on to for the take-off and climb.
I understand there are a couple different people working on an electronic
governor for the Ivoprop.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop (70 hrs) N47RV RV-3 Maroon Marauder
Less_Drag(at)juno.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca. USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ted_boudreaux(at)om.cv.hp.com |
| Subject: | O-320 H2AD question |
Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
Hi everyone,
Has anyone out there had any success putting a c/s prop on an H2AD
engine? Is it possible? There was that article in the RVator that
stated that this engine has a hollow crank, but the author was unsure
of what else needed to be done to make it work. Any info would be
appreciated.
Thanks
Ted Boudreaux RV4 empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <RNuckolls(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | B&C Lightweight starters |
/I had a B&C Lightweight starter from new on my RV6. =
/In the 160 or so hours it flew I had about five =
/failures all to do with not throwing in. I faxed =
/lycoming who said they no longer ship these starters =
/because of problems with the throw in solenoid. =
/Does anyone know of a mod program or upgrade for these =
/starters? I am now using a skytek starter. I have a =
/near new but useless B&C in the garage.
How do you KNOW that the starter you reference was
made by B&C? I can assure you that it doesn't have
any lable to that effect because B&C never made
starters for Lycoming. They TRIED . . . I'm privy
to a string of meetings and testing of samples in
Lycoming's test cell that showed the B&C product to
be superior in weight, performance and longevity to
any starter previously tested at Lycoming.
They balked at the price (it's amazing how many bean-
counter driven executives expect 4x perfomance and
value for less money). Those early discussions between
Lycoming and B&C sparked Lycoming's own efforts at
development of a light-weight starter. The results
were dismal and Lycoming discontinued it's use after
a year or so.
I believe Lycoming HAS now cut a deal with Skytek to use
their starter on production engines. But please folks,
before you bash anyone, be sure of your facts. It
doesn't take too many pastings of a good company to =
cause them unjustified harm. B&C would like to be a
supplier to Lycoming and Continental (B&C also has
a replacment for the piece-of-trash starter for =
C-85 through O-300 including the IO-240) but both companies
have demanded too many compromises of B&C's marketing
policies.
Regards,
Bob . . . =
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DoOOo=3D(_)=3DoOOo=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: B&C Lightweight starters |
Dave,
What do you want for that useless starter....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com> |
Thanks Matt, I for one really appreciate you sharing your net. Really missed
it when it was gone.
Have A Great Day!
Denny Harjehausen
RV-6/ Fuselage
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions About Fittings... |
>Reading over the book "Firewall Forward" by Tony B., he makes a rather off
>handed comment to the effect that 'nowadays people in the know don't use
>thread sealant when making a connection with a standard AN fitting'. I'm
>working on the fuel line installation now and there are a number of pipe
>fittings involved. To seal or not to seal, that is the question. If the
>answer is 'yes', what is the best thing to use? Is there something at the
>local car parts store that would work?
>
>Is thread sealant necessary for the flared tube connections?
>
It seams like most people, myself included, are using Fuelube an all the
connections in the fuel system. One can of the stuff from ASS will last
several lifetimes. You do so much for us, send me your snail mail address
and I'll send you out enough for several RV's
>Is there any reason why I shouldn't use a bulkhead fitting on the connection
>that goes from the fuse to the wing tank?
I used bulkhead fittings on all fuel line penetrations. It makes a neater
installation, but does add more joints that could leak.
>
>
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: B&C Lightweight starters |
David Foord wrote:
>
>
> I had a B&C Lightweight starter from new on my RV6. In the 160 or so hours it
flew I had about five failures all to do with not throwing in. I
faxed lycoming w
Although I'm not familiar with the B&C starter, it's not uncommon to have
a situation in which the wiring and/or the ignition switch is inadequate
of providing enough power to 'pull' the solenoid piston. In this case,
an old trick is to add another relay (ford solenoid), activated by the
ignition switch which then can provide a larger power source (battery) to
the starter. I've done this successfully on heavy equipment which
demonstrated this problem as the switch and/or wiring ages. That starter
may be worth more than you think.
Brian Eckstein
6A wings still
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 0-360 metal FP prop |
I was under the impression that the Sensenich fixed pitch prop for the
0-360 was a dead project until I recently checked out www.sensenich.com
Brian Eckstein
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | instruments, audio panel |
I'm laying out my panel, trying to resolve some dilemmas. Any help on
the following would be appreciated....
The way I'd like to lay out my panel doesn't leave much space (at least
not where I want it) for volts/amps/oil pressure/oil temp -- except for
something like a narrow "strip cluster". I'm leaning towards the 1.5"
gangable Mitchell gauges, aligned horizontally for a 1.5" x 6" strip.
But adding them up they get pretty expensive. Anyone know of a source
for the horizontal clusters containing these gauges or similar
combination, possibly including L/R fuel, like you see in some
production A/C? I've tried several salvage yards and only one had them
(A/C Salvage in Omak) but they wanted the same $$ used that Mitchell
gets new for theirs.
(BTW I looked at VDO car gauges and they only seem to be available
in round gauges)
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions About Fittings... |
Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001 wrote:
>
>
> Reading over the book "Firewall Forward" by Tony B., he makes a rather off
> handed comment to the effect that 'nowadays people in the know don't use
> thread sealant when making a connection with a standard AN fitting'. I'm
> working on the fuel line installation now and there are a number of pipe
> fittings involved. To seal or not to seal, that is the question. If the
> answer is 'yes', what is the best thing to use? Is there something at the
> local car parts store that would work?
>
> Is thread sealant necessary for the flared tube connections?
>
> Is there any reason why I shouldn't use a bulkhead fitting on the connection
> that goes from the fuse to the wing tank?
>
> As always, thanks for the input.
>
> Matt Dralle
> RV-4 N442RV (res)
>
> --
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Matt,
I've got a brand new can of fuel lube and will be glad to give you some.
Give me a call at (408)257-3281 Home or 737-7600 x6605 work and we can
make arrangements. (Are you going to Watsonville this weekend?)
Ed Cole
emcole(at)concentric.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Acker <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: O-320 H2AD question |
> Has anyone out there had any success putting a c/s prop on an H2AD
> engine? Is it possible? There was that article in the RVator that
I don't think the H2AD case is drilled for c/s support, the O-320H1AD is.
On an aside, the H2AD I bought today from Eustace Bowhay (yikes...did I
really buy an engine?) will get an Aymar-Demuth wood prop on the front.
Both sources/products were highly regarded in the archives, which had a big
influence on my final engine/prop decision. What a great resource!
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV-6 & 6A Construction Manual |
I would like to see what kind of response I receive on this topic.
I am currently contemplating publishing a detailed construction manual for
the building of the RV-6 and 6A. This would be a step by step manual along
with an overwhelming amount of photos and drawings showing exactly what needs
to be done along with tips on the many different ways a task can be
accomplished.
Also the RV-list archives have been gone thru to assemble question and the
varied answeres given to solve problems. These would be used in helping
builderes with their questions.
I feel this would be of great help to new builders who have never even held a
rivet gun, let alone know how much air pressure to use when setting rivets
for the stiffeners on the rudder for instance, or what to do if that
inevitable extra hole gets punched in a skin while dimpling.
I know we have the RV-list to ask these kinds of questions but wouldn't it be
nice just to open up an index and review these topics and more.
Please e-mail me with your comments on this subeject. I appreciate your time
in this matter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 Firewall Recess |
>
>>
>>The firewall recess is installed with the flat surface uppermost and the
>>sloping portion towards the floor. I speak as someone who has installed it
>>the other way and then removed it.
>>
>>Leo Davies
>
>
>Top of aircraft (canopy goes here)
>
>
> !\
> ! \
> ! \
> ! \
> ! \
> ! !
> ! !
> -----
>
>Bottom of aircraft (landing gear goes here)
>
>Scott Gesele N506RV (setting up paint booth)
>
>
Not to beat this thing to death...BUT... I didn't think to look in the
catalog for building instructions and drilled mine in the other way with
rudder pedal bar in mind and the stainless mixing bowl Tony Bengelis used.
My engine will not have a car type filter on it...would the governor not fit
in the indentation if installed opposite of the above???
Have A Great Day!
Denny Harjehausen
RV-6/ Fuselage
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle@roxy (Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | DAR Experience (Forward from Zenith-List) |
[RVrs - This came from the Zenith-List. Seemed interesting and thought I'd
pass it along to the RV-List. Have people had similar exp. with RVs? - Matt]
--- Forwarded mail from zenith-list(at)matronics.com
>
>Had the local DAR do a preliminary inspection of my aircraft
>prior to closure of the front skin and final prep for
>painting.
>
>Items cited as cause for failure of inspection:
>
>* Lack of hard grounding of fuel tank to airframe
>* Combination nav/strobe lights (whelen) not at proper
> angle on wing tip. I installed them to fit fiberglass.
> Need to set them horizontal for full coverage.
>
>Items he indicated as questionable:
>
>* No steel bushings in rudder/cable attach points
>* some cotter pins on castelated nuts could be moved if
> pushed. Loose in hole. Wants the head squeezed into hole
> before bending legs.
>* no steel bushings on aileron bellcrank/cable attach points
>* aileron control hard stops (per drawings) not adequate
>* angle of deflection on elevator control cables (yes, done
> per drawings)
>* corrosion proofing of sealed tubing in motor mount
>* use of aluminum strips to attach control cables
>* hingeless aileron
>* lack of breather tube on rotax 912 ("got to have one
> somewhere.")
>* tie wrapping wires directly to motor mount. Wanted
> standoffs
>* aluminum on steel contact - gear legs, control torque tube
> etc..
>* flexibility of carb attachment onto manifold of 912 (yes I
> do have the Rotax spring mod installed)
>* lack of bright color on throttle handles
>* drain holes (1/8") too small
>* Lack of carb heat
>* lack of true drain for pitot static system (will
> disconnect 90 degree elbow where tubing enters cockpit to
> drain)
>* no emergency brake
>
>Also, if you plan at all to use 100LL, you could be told to
>run engine 20 hours on auto and 20 hours on 100LL during
>testing program. I made the mistake of saying that I would
>run 100LL if on a trip and auto was not available. He wants
>to see receipts.
>
>At least he did not pick on my workmanship anywhere. For the
>most part he picked on design concepts.
>
>Note: He did not even look or ask for any drawings or
> assembly instructions!
>
>I'll make some changes to appease "The Man", but some I will
>leave as is.
>
>Wayne N601WB
>
>
--- End of forwarded message from zenith-list(at)matronics.com
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
Man, did I miss you guys! Working conditions were unbearable the last few
days without my hourly fix of RV stuff. Yep, I'm one of those guys that
reads every dang message. Even tirades about primer aplications (with or
without explosion-proof fans) sure beat the heck out of accounting.
One of these days I'm gonna buy Matt Dralle a big ole beer. Sure hope he
drinks!
Thanks for all your time and effort Matt. You do a hell of a job.
Eric Henson
Dana Point, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Pfeiffer <donp(at)scruznet.com> |
| Subject: | Cablecraft Control Cables and Van's brackets |
Getting ready to order engine control cables , does anyone know if the
Cablecraft control cables for Prop and Throttle that are available from Chief Aircraft
will work with the brackets from Van's.
These cables have rod ends with bulkhead fittings on ends of cable.
Has any one used these cables without having to modify the brackets?
Don Pfeiffer | From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
Listers,
I am having some vapor lock problems and rough engine operation after flying
and then letting the plane sit for awhile when changing passengers, etc. (I
just love showing off my plane and infecting others with RV Fever.) My plane
flies just perfectly when it gets going and only has a problem when it sits
after a flight. I am using 100LL. I have an Ellison Throttle Body. I
removed my gascolator and HPG1 fuel filter from the engine compartment. I
moved the fuel filter to the cockpit and did not install the gascolator. All
of my lines are covered with firesleve and the fittings are insulated with
foil covered insulation. This has helped, but not completely eliminated the
problem. Does anyone have a way to cool the engine driven fuel pump that
will work when the plane is not moving. A blast tube only made the problem
worse because it was blowing hot air onto the pump.
I want to fly a lot of Young Eagles this Summer, but I don't want to scare
anyone with a rough running engine. The only solution I can think of is to
install a return line at the carb and circulate some fuel back to the tank to
cool things down. That would mess up my fuel used reading on my very
accurate micro monitor engine instrument system, but if that is the only
solution, so be it. Any ideas to avoid this? Thanks in advance.
Jim Cone
RV-6A flying (60+) hours and having a ball.
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 & 6A Construction Manual |
z>
>I am currently contemplating publishing a detailed construction manual for
>the building of the RV-6 and 6A. This would be a step by step manual along
>with an overwhelming amount of photos and drawings showing exactly what
>needs to be done along with tips on the many different ways a task can be
>accomplished.
For new RV-list members, I'll blow my own trumpet on this again (apologies
to the old hands who've seen this mentioned several times):
As I'm building my RV-6, I'm writing "A Bunny's Guide to RV Building" which
is more or less what this RV-Lister (sorry, didn't catch your name?) is
proposing. It's available at <http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/bunny.htm>.
Input from other builders who want to help others avoid pitfalls they've
discovered and I haven't (not many, I'm sure!) and those who have found
better solutions (there must be lots) is welcomed, and will be included in
the Guide with an acknowledgement. I also include useful tips as I find
them on the List.
Currently the Bunny's Guide covers most of the empennage (I haven't fitted
the control surfaces or the tips), plus a fair amount of the wings. I don't
have any photos or drawings (we are very limited in disk space), and it's
not exactly a step-by-step manual. It's more of a companion to Van's
manual, and to Frank Justice's guide.
I would like to make the Bunny's Guide the premier place to find
RV-Building how-to assistance on the Web. I think the best way to achieve
this is by cooperative effort... it will be a resource that we all own, and
all can use. The more we share, the better it is for each of us.
Frank.
(Working on wing ribs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Questions About Fittings... |
Hi everyone - boy have I missed this stuff!
>Is thread sealant necessary for the flared tube connections?
I never heard of using it.
>Is there any reason why I shouldn't use a bulkhead fitting on the connection
>that goes from the fuse to the wing tank?
I think what you do here is cut holes in the fuselage that line up exactly with
the fittings on the tank. The hole should take a grommet but I don't recall
seeing one that was big enough to give a little slack.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Installing the empennage
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikeb(at)lsil.com (Mike Brogley) |
| Subject: | Watsonville (West Coast Antique Fly In and Airshow) |
<...>
>(Are you going to Watsonville this weekend?)
>
Watsonville? Dunno about Matt (he's probably resting up after his ISP
fight) but I am! Saturday! Who else is going to be there?
--
Mike Brogley
RV-8 sn80241
San Jose, CA USA
mikeb(at)lsil.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Fritz <Qmax1(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Nuckolls Seminar |
Well, I've been trying to get an answer from Bob Nuckolls re. his seminar
in June. His web site shows it to be Sat and Sun. July 13-14. Problem is,
the 13th is a Sunday and the 14th is Monday.
I've brought this to his attention three times in the past two months and
nothing is updated. I'm posting it here because I can only assume my
messages directly to his web site aren't getting through.
Hey Bob..........Are you out there?????
Still wanting to sit at the feet of the guru of flying electrons,
Bob Fritz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Grounding questions |
<< They are commonly made by Raychem, and I think that
Remtek is a second source. I will retrieve this info from the office and
post it to the list tonite. >>
True to my word, here is the scoop on solder sleeves.
Environment resistant solder sleeves for use on wire insulation rated for 125
degrees C and above are covered by MIL-S-83519/1. Raychem (415-361-3860) and
Remtek (510-490-3999) make them. Mil P/N M83519/1-1 thru M83519/1-5 cover
the range from .100" thru .300" diameter as supplied. They shrink to
approximately 50%. NAS1745-1 thru NAS1745-25 solder sleeves for use on wire
insulation rated for 105 degrees C and above cover the range from .080" thru
.500" diameter as supplied.
A good heat gun is used to shrink these sleeves, flow the sealing rings and
melt the solder ring. In a pinch I have used a BIC lighter (inside the flame
please or you'll just blacken and burn the PVF sleeve).
They make other sleeves too, but these are the most useful for our
applications.
Regards,
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Is there a autopilot available for RV's |
Is there a reasonably priced autopilot available for RV's out there?
I have been told that Navaid autopilots are no longer available.
Please send name adderss and prices if you know of any.
Chris May
RV-4 N595CM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Elevator trim preferances |
Hi folks,
I'm getting ready to order my RV-8 tail kit this week. I'm considering
ordering the electric elevator trim kit with it. I'd like any/all
opinions on manual versus electric.
To David Foord My request for information regarding your 14-28 volt
power inverter got bounced back to me after I had erased the original
message. Please send me the above info.
I would also like to know good sources of overhaul kits for pneumatic
tools (ie Skill, Chicago Pneumatic, Aro, & Cleco)
Charlie Kuss charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com
Just finished rebuilding Pneumatic riveter and airdrill w/ microstop
built-in. I got the riveter for free from a friend because it didn't
work
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
> This has helped, but not completely eliminated the
>problem. Does anyone have a way to cool the engine driven fuel pump that
>will work when the plane is not moving. A blast tube only made the problem
>worse because it was blowing hot air onto the pump.
> The only solution I can think of is to
>install a return line at the carb and circulate some fuel back to the tank to
>cool things down. That would mess up my fuel used reading on my very
>accurate micro monitor engine instrument system, but if that is the only
>solution, so be it. Any ideas to avoid this? Thanks in advance.
>
>Jim Cone
>RV-6A flying (60+) hours and having a ball.
Jim,
Although it won't help cool while standing still, they do make a shroud
for the mechanical fuel pump. The one I have uses 2" scat tube.
The return line may work. From reading about them (and from my experience
with the Ellison on our Glasair) I think they're kind of touchy on
adjustments. We never could get ours to operate consistantly from day to
day. I solved the problem by selling the Glasair to my partner.
Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions About Fittings... |
>Is thread sealant necessary for the flared tube connections?
>Matt Dralle
>RV-4 N442RV (res)
Matt,
The fuel lube works great for the threaded portion of the AN fitting. Use
it sparingly. Fuel lube should not be used on the flared part of the
fitting or face of the flare on the tubing.
Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: instruments, audio panel |
>something like a narrow "strip cluster". I'm leaning towards the 1.5"
>gangable Mitchell gauges, aligned horizontally for a 1.5" x 6" strip.
>But adding them up they get pretty expensive. Anyone know of a source
>for the horizontal clusters containing these gauges or similar
>combination, possibly including L/R fuel, like you see in some
>production A/C? I've tried several salvage yards and only one had them
>Randall Henderson, RV-6
>randall(at)edt.com
Randall,
I like the looks of the Mitchell gauges, too. Yes, they are a little
pricey but so is an engine. I think it makes sense to buy the most
accurate, dependable gauges that we can to protect our expensive investment.
Unfortunately, I've never come across any information along these lines.
After reading about aviation for many years, I have yet to come across any
articles comparing accuracy, quality and servicability of engine
instruments. I guess one way I tend to judge quality is the cost of the
item (whether right or wrong). I've also seen enough to know that I don't
want to use Westach.
Sorry, got away from my point. One advantage that the Mitchell "strip"
gauges over the salvage gauges is that they're all electric. I like keeping
fuel and oil out of the cockpit. By using electric gauges and an electric
primer relay, you can eleminate several oil/fuel lines.
Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: FAA finds several design omissions |
I've wondered about some of these but found too many other things to worry
about! Specifically,
>* No steel bushings in rudder/cable attach points
I figure when the aluminum wears out, I'll put in bushings.
>* some cotter pins on castelated nuts could be moved if
> pushed. Loose in hole. Wants the head squeezed into hole
> before bending legs.
With my Quickbuild, the cotters seem too small.
>* aileron control hard stops (per drawings) not adequate
These don't look like much but maybe others overdesign.
>* aluminum on steel contact - gear legs, control torque tube
Why don't we worry about steel to aluminum contact where steel bolts are used on
aluminum parts?
>* lack of true drain for pitot static system (will
> disconnect 90 degree elbow where tubing enters cockpit to
> drain)
I never check it on my Debonair so it might as well not exist. But I'm going to
install a tee with plug anyway.
>* no emergency brake
Yeah! What if you are trying to stop and get parked at a hilly airport? All
that is needed is a valve.
However, I thought these were EXPERIMENTAL?
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Installing the empennage
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions About Fittings... |
Edward Cole wrote:
>
>
> Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001 wrote:
> >
> >
> > Reading over the book "Firewall Forward" by Tony B., he makes a rather off
> > handed comment to the effect that 'nowadays people in the know don't use
> > thread sealant when making a connection with a standard AN fitting'. I'm
> > working on the fuel line installation now and there are a number of pipe
> > fittings involved. To seal or not to seal, that is the question. If the
> > answer is 'yes', what is the best thing to use? Is there something at the
> > local car parts store that would work?
> >
> > Is thread sealant necessary for the flared tube connections?
> >
> > Is there any reason why I shouldn't use a bulkhead fitting on the connection
> > that goes from the fuse to the wing tank?
> >
> > As always, thanks for the input.
> >
> > Matt Dralle
> > RV-4 N442RV (res)
> >
> > --
> >
> > Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> > 510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> > http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
> Matt,
> I've got a brand new can of fuel lube and will be glad to give you some.
> Give me a call at (408)257-3281 Home or 737-7600 x6605 work and we can
> make arrangements. (Are you going to Watsonville this weekend?)
>
> Ed Cole
> emcole(at)concentric.net
Matt, I'm using some fuel and oil resistant teflon based thread sealant
on all my fittings for the sole reason of preventing the threads from
gauling when tightened.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcon(at)ix.netcom.com (Robert M. Cornacchia ) |
| Subject: | Re: Is there a autopilot available for RV's |
You wrote:
>
>
> Is there a reasonably priced autopilot available for RV's out there?
> I have been told that Navaid autopilots are no longer available.
> Please send name adderss and prices if you know of any.
> Chris May
> RV-4 N595CM
>
Hi Chris,
Navaid is very much alive and in business.
Navaid Devices
641 N. Market Street
Chattanooga, Tennessee 37405
423 267-3311 FAX 423 756-6154
Later,
Bob Cornacchia RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Is there a autopilot available for RV's |
Chris,
S-Tec make a system for the RV6 including an excellent installation kit.
Available as single axis (model 40) or two axis (model 50). I bought mine
through West Coast Avionics who provided a nice service.
Leo
>
> Is there a reasonably priced autopilot available for RV's out there?
> I have been told that Navaid autopilots are no longer available.
> Please send name adderss and prices if you know of any.
> Chris May
> RV-4 N595CM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Delivered-To: postmaster(at)home.pipex.com
Delivered-To: postmaster(at)maelstrom.dial.pipex.net
Delivered-To: ar15(at)maelstrom.dial.pipex.net
Delivered-To: d#-mal(at)dial.pipex.com
| From: | sybase.com!halk(at)matronics.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: FAA finds several design omissions |
I've wondered about some of these but found too many other things to worry
about! Specifically,
>* No steel bushings in rudder/cable attach points
I figure when the aluminum wears out, I'll put in bushings.
>* some cotter pins on castelated nuts could be moved if
> pushed. Loose in hole. Wants the head squeezed into hole
> before bending legs.
With my Quickbuild, the cotters seem too small.
>* aileron control hard stops (per drawings) not adequate
These don't look like much but maybe others overdesign.
>* aluminum on steel contact - gear legs, control torque tube
Why don't we worry about steel to aluminum contact where steel bolts are used on
aluminum parts?
>* lack of true drain for pitot static system (will
> disconnect 90 degree elbow where tubing enters cockpit to
> drain)
I never check it on my Debonair so it might as well not exist. But I'm going to
install a tee with plug anyway.
>* no emergency brake
Yeah! What if you are trying to stop and get parked at a hilly airport? All
that is needed is a valve.
However, I thought these were EXPERIMENTAL?
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Installing the empennage
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Allison <stevea(at)svpal.org> |
Here is a question for those of you who have managed to fit the aileron
and flap to the wing.
The flap drawing (sheet 17) and some photos in the manual show how to cut
and step the inboard end of the flap brace over the rear spar attach
doubler W-607D. What is not shown anywhere is how to fit the outboard end
of the flap brace over the .040 W-607E doubler. How is everyone else
handling this one?
I can see two options:
1. Ignore the .040 step. Not really sure I want to do this.
2. Cut the flap brace where the flange steps up on the W-607E doubler,
re-bend the flange to fit over the .040 step. I think this is a
better option.
I probably answered my own question here, but I thought I would see how
everyone else handles this "undocumented feature".
Thanks,
Steve Allison
RV-6A N???SA
left wing almost done....sure hope the right one goes faster!
________________________________________________________________________________
Delivered-To: postmaster(at)home.pipex.com
Delivered-To: postmaster(at)maelstrom.dial.pipex.net
Delivered-To: ar15(at)maelstrom.dial.pipex.net
Delivered-To: d#-mal(at)dial.pipex.com
| From: | aol.com!N595CM(at)matronics.com |
| Subject: | Re: Is there a autopilot available for RV's |
Is there a reasonably priced autopilot available for RV's out there?
I have been told that Navaid autopilots are no longer available.
Please send name adderss and prices if you know of any.
Chris May
RV-4 N595CM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin lane <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
last week I hired Doug Stenger to help shoot on my bottom wing skins.
Couple hours to put on the four inboard ribs (Doug doesn't do it like Frank)
then 6 hours of serious riveting (with his 4x gun). The bottoms look as
good as the tops even tho' they were not back riveted. When you can simply
walk in and start working without having to make decisions (Doug has built
25 wing sets to date) it is incredible how fast these go together. No
plans, nothing, just "OK, we need a three dash 5 for this hole". I spent a
year building my wings. Doug can build them in a week. He can get your
fuse out of the jig in a week. I could have been flying by now if I'd
realized this. Next time, when I build the Harmon Rocket, right? Doug
charges $15/hr. Jump on it before he goes bankrupt. (many a true word was
said in jest). He lives 10 miles west of North Plains.
A second note. I thought it would be a good idea to leave that
plastic on the wing skins to protect them etc... NOT A GOOD IDEA. I found
the beginnings of corrosion where I had pealed it back to rivet. I also
found some scratches which must have occurred before they were laminated,
but of course will not swap them at this point. kevin 6A-moving to TTD
saturday!
________________________________________________________________________________
Delivered-To: postmaster(at)home.pipex.com
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Delivered-To: d#-mal(at)dial.pipex.com
| From: | Bob Skinner <navix.net!BSkinner(at)matronics.com> |
> This has helped, but not completely eliminated the
>problem. Does anyone have a way to cool the engine driven fuel pump that
>will work when the plane is not moving. A blast tube only made the problem
>worse because it was blowing hot air onto the pump.
> The only solution I can think of is to
>install a return line at the carb and circulate some fuel back to the tank to
>cool things down. That would mess up my fuel used reading on my very
>accurate micro monitor engine instrument system, but if that is the only
>solution, so be it. Any ideas to avoid this? Thanks in advance.
>
>Jim Cone
>RV-6A flying (60+) hours and having a ball.
Jim,
Although it won't help cool while standing still, they do make a shroud
for the mechanical fuel pump. The one I have uses 2" scat tube.
The return line may work. From reading about them (and from my experience
with the Ellison on our Glasair) I think they're kind of touchy on
adjustments. We never could get ours to operate consistantly from day to
day. I solved the problem by selling the Glasair to my partner.
Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
Delivered-To: postmaster(at)home.pipex.com
Delivered-To: postmaster(at)maelstrom.dial.pipex.net
Delivered-To: ar15(at)maelstrom.dial.pipex.net
Delivered-To: d#-mal(at)dial.pipex.com
| From: | Bob Skinner <navix.net!BSkinner(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions About Fittings... |
>Is thread sealant necessary for the flared tube connections?
>Matt Dralle
>RV-4 N442RV (res)
Matt,
The fuel lube works great for the threaded portion of the AN fitting. Use
it sparingly. Fuel lube should not be used on the flared part of the
fitting or face of the flare on the tubing.
Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
Delivered-To: postmaster(at)home.pipex.com
Delivered-To: postmaster(at)maelstrom.dial.pipex.net
Delivered-To: ar15(at)maelstrom.dial.pipex.net
Delivered-To: d#-mal(at)dial.pipex.com
| From: | Bob Skinner <navix.net!BSkinner(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: instruments, audio panel |
>something like a narrow "strip cluster". I'm leaning towards the 1.5"
>gangable Mitchell gauges, aligned horizontally for a 1.5" x 6" strip.
>But adding them up they get pretty expensive. Anyone know of a source
>for the horizontal clusters containing these gauges or similar
>combination, possibly including L/R fuel, like you see in some
>production A/C? I've tried several salvage yards and only one had them
>Randall Henderson, RV-6
>randall(at)edt.com
Randall,
I like the looks of the Mitchell gauges, too. Yes, they are a little
pricey but so is an engine. I think it makes sense to buy the most
accurate, dependable gauges that we can to protect our expensive investment.
Unfortunately, I've never come across any information along these lines.
After reading about aviation for many years, I have yet to come across any
articles comparing accuracy, quality and servicability of engine
instruments. I guess one way I tend to judge quality is the cost of the
item (whether right or wrong). I've also seen enough to know that I don't
want to use Westach.
Sorry, got away from my point. One advantage that the Mitchell "strip"
gauges over the salvage gauges is that they're all electric. I like keeping
fuel and oil out of the cockpit. By using electric gauges and an electric
primer relay, you can eleminate several oil/fuel lines.
Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
Delivered-To: postmaster(at)home.pipex.com
Delivered-To: postmaster(at)maelstrom.dial.pipex.net
Delivered-To: ar15(at)maelstrom.dial.pipex.net
Delivered-To: d#-mal(at)dial.pipex.com
| From: | aol.com!N595CM(at)matronics.com |
| Subject: | Re: Is there a autopilot available for RV's |
Is there a reasonably priced autopilot available for RV's out there?
I have been told that Navaid autopilots are no longer available.
Please send name adderss and prices if you know of any.
Chris May
RV-4 N595CM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Is there a autopilot available for RV's |
Hello Chris,
I just ordered a Navaid autopilot today. It will be 8 to 10 weeks
until delivery.
Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q
Seattle area, working on instrument panel.
________________________________________________________________________________
Delivered-To: postmaster(at)home.pipex.com
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Delivered-To: ar15(at)maelstrom.dial.pipex.net
Delivered-To: d#-mal(at)dial.pipex.com
| From: | aol.com!Vanremog(at)matronics.com |
| Subject: | Re: Grounding questions |
<< They are commonly made by Raychem, and I think that
Remtek is a second source. I will retrieve this info from the office and
post it to the list tonite. >>
True to my word, here is the scoop on solder sleeves.
Environment resistant solder sleeves for use on wire insulation rated for 125
degrees C and above are covered by MIL-S-83519/1. Raychem (415-361-3860) and
Remtek (510-490-3999) make them. Mil P/N M83519/1-1 thru M83519/1-5 cover
the range from .100" thru .300" diameter as supplied. They shrink to
approximately 50%. NAS1745-1 thru NAS1745-25 solder sleeves for use on wire
insulation rated for 105 degrees C and above cover the range from .080" thru
.500" diameter as supplied.
A good heat gun is used to shrink these sleeves, flow the sealing rings and
melt the solder ring. In a pinch I have used a BIC lighter (inside the flame
please or you'll just blacken and burn the PVF sleeve).
They make other sleeves too, but these are the most useful for our
applications.
Regards,
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elon <elon.o(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 & 6A Construction Manual |
aol.com!JDaniel343(at)matronics.com wrote:
I would like to see what kind of response I receive on this topic.
> I am currently contemplating publishing a detailed construction manual for
> the building of the RV-6 and 6A.
-------------------------------------
I would probably buy Matt's ARCHIVE CD-ROM first (if it ever becomes available).
IMHO a very smart (and fast) search-engine with its Dbase and Frank Justice's
(free) instructions is very hard to beat!
Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
Delivered-To: postmaster(at)home.pipex.com
Delivered-To: postmaster(at)maelstrom.dial.pipex.net
Delivered-To: ar15(at)maelstrom.dial.pipex.net
Delivered-To: d#-mal(at)dial.pipex.com
| From: | Bob Skinner <navix.net!BSkinner(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions About Fittings... |
>Is thread sealant necessary for the flared tube connections?
>Matt Dralle
>RV-4 N442RV (res)
Matt,
The fuel lube works great for the threaded portion of the AN fitting. Use
it sparingly. Fuel lube should not be used on the flared part of the
fitting or face of the flare on the tubing.
Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
Delivered-To: postmaster(at)home.pipex.com
Delivered-To: postmaster(at)maelstrom.dial.pipex.net
Delivered-To: ar15(at)maelstrom.dial.pipex.net
Delivered-To: d#-mal(at)dial.pipex.com
| From: | Bob Skinner <navix.net!BSkinner(at)matronics.com> |
> This has helped, but not completely eliminated the
>problem. Does anyone have a way to cool the engine driven fuel pump that
>will work when the plane is not moving. A blast tube only made the problem
>worse because it was blowing hot air onto the pump.
> The only solution I can think of is to
>install a return line at the carb and circulate some fuel back to the tank to
>cool things down. That would mess up my fuel used reading on my very
>accurate micro monitor engine instrument system, but if that is the only
>solution, so be it. Any ideas to avoid this? Thanks in advance.
>
>Jim Cone
>RV-6A flying (60+) hours and having a ball.
Jim,
Although it won't help cool while standing still, they do make a shroud
for the mechanical fuel pump. The one I have uses 2" scat tube.
The return line may work. From reading about them (and from my experience
with the Ellison on our Glasair) I think they're kind of touchy on
adjustments. We never could get ours to operate consistantly from day to
day. I solved the problem by selling the Glasair to my partner.
Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Is there a autopilot available for RV's |
Navaid with Smartcoupler is $1450. There phone: 423-267-3311
FAX 423-756-6154.
I ordered one today. Delivery is 8 to 10 weeks out.
Ron Vandervort
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
Jim,
I have the same set up you do, with the exception I have the gascolator.
After the airplane has heat soaked I always run my electric pump for taxi and
until Im 1000ft agl. Ive also found that pulling my mixture back some helps
alot.(this sounds counter productive, but it works) I enritchen the mixture
just prior to take off. Try this if you havent already. Sounds like you have
every thing else pretty well covered.
Ryan B
RV4131RB(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Blake Harral <bharral(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cablecraft Control Cables and Van's brackets |
Don Pfeiffer wrote:
>
>
> Getting ready to order engine control cables , does anyone know if the
> Cablecraft control cables for Prop and Throttle that are available from Chief
Aircraft will work with the brackets from Van's.
> These cables have rod ends with bulkhead fittings on ends of cable.
> Has any one used these cables without having to modify the brackets?
>
> Don Pfeiffer | From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: B&C Lightweight starters |
Dave,
You sure your talking about a B&C million dollar starter? Thats a mighty
expensive boat anchor. My impresion of the guy who sells these things isnt a
good one. Ive talked to him a couple of times at Sun"N"Fun. His sales pitch
is all about how good his product is and what a piece of crap the skytech
starter is. When I asked him why his product cost 3 times more than skytech
he informed me that the skytech was built from used parts. Well he convinced
me, I went across the hall and bought a skytech (No Regrets). Im sorry I dont
think theirs a starter on the market worth what he's asking. In all fairness
though I know a few people who have his starters and alternators and are
completely satisfied.( with no problems) Im surprised to hear your having
difficulty. Im sure if you get a hold of B&C they will make it right.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
>
>Listers,
>
>I am having some vapor lock problems and rough engine operation after flying
>and then letting the plane sit for awhile when changing passengers,
>
>Jim Cone
>RV-6A flying (60+) hours and having a ball.
>jamescone(at)aol.com
>
Jim
I don't know if you have a heat muff or not but I took mine off last summer
and it reduced that rough ground running engine considerably. As well it
kept the cabin cooler around my feet. The heat muff is still working when
the knob is off, it is just dumping the heat into the engine compartment. I
did have to put it back on for these cold canadian winters though!
Tom Martin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CYoung9519(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Fab Trim Control Box |
Has anyone tried the Trim Control Box made by Aero Fab? How much hassle is
it to install in a completed RV6A? My choice for installation location
would be on the floor between the seats.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KOZINSKI GARY <kozinski(at)symbol.com> |
| Subject: | Pitot tube location |
I have purchased and installed an OEM pitot tube (Cessna type) at the
location specified in the plans on my RV-6. I see the Chief's Aircraft
is selling an extension plate to extend the distance between the bottom
of the wing and the pitot tube. Presently, I have about 6-8 inches
between the base of the wing and my tube (about the same as my C-172K).
My questions are...
How far from the base of the wing should a pitot tube be located?
Will I have incorrect airspeed reading if the tube is 6-8 inches from
the base?
What will the differences be?
Thanks,
Gary Kozinski RV-6 20038 still riveting along
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 20/20 hindsight |
>
>last week I hired Doug Stenger to help shoot on my bottom wing skins.
>charges $15/hr lives 10 miles west of North Plains.
I'd give room and board too. Biggest (almost) problem I have is getting
a riveting partner when needed down here in Lebanon (too far away).
> A second note. I thought it would be a good idea to leave that
>plastic on the wing skins to protect them etc... NOT A GOOD IDEA. I found
>the beginnings of corrosion where I had pealed it back to rivet.
>
Some of my Fuselage skins came with the plastic, I found the same
problem as above.
Have A Great Day!
Denny Harjehausen, retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com
RV-6/ Fuselage
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <James.E.Clark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Is there a autopilot available for RV's |
Both Navaid and S-TEC were at Sun-N-Fun displaying their wares. I talked to
people at both booths and they both seemed alive and well.
Most people probably know about the Navaid, but some of you may not know
that S-TEC announced their new System 20 and System 30 at S-n-F. Basically
you get the System 50 functionality in a turn coordinator package. The 30
is a 20 with altitude hold.
I talked to S-TEC yesterday (actually to the guy that did the RV6
installation/engineering. Have also seen their drawings for RV installation
{nice}). I came away fairly impressed.
Of course the "downside" is that they do cost a bit more. List is around
$4K (I think) but they are available from places like Chief for less that
this. So if you consider maybe 2x the Navaid price to also be reasonable, I
think S-TEC can be reached at 1-800-USA-STEC.
No affiliation with either company ... looking at both.
James
RV6AQ ... closing those wings soon, so gotta decide on this autopilot
stuff, today!
----------
> From: aol.com!N595CM(at)matronics.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Re: Is there a autopilot available for RV's
> Date: Wednesday, May 21, 1997 10:31 PM
>
>
> Is there a reasonably priced autopilot available for RV's out there?
> I have been told that Navaid autopilots are no longer available.
> Please send name adderss and prices if you know of any.
> Chris May
> RV-4 N595CM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n5lp(at)carlsbad.net (Larry Pardue) |
| Subject: | Re: Is there a autopilot available for RV |
> I have been told that Navaid autopilots are no longer available.
> Please send name adderss and prices if you know of any.
> Chris May
> RV-4 N595CM
Boy, I hope this isn't true. I sent them my check last month. Anybody know?
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
Pacer N8025D
RV-6QME Floor Pans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry D. Hoatson" <lhoatson(at)e2.empirenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grounding questions |
> A good heat gun is used to shrink these sleeves, flow the sealing rings and
> melt the solder ring. In a pinch I have used a BIC lighter (inside
My IA has a gun, I believe it's an Ungar, with a tip designed
specifically for the solder sleeves. All that is unique about it is
that it forms a loop, which you lay the wire inside of, so that heat is
distributed circumferentially (sp?) around the sleeve
Larry (not to be confused with an artist)
Heat Gun
||||||||||||||
||||||||||||||
||||||||||||
||||||||||
|
| * |
| * * |
| |
| |
||||
--
Larry D. Hoatson Yucaipa, CA Redlands (L12) Airport
lhoatson(at)empirenet.com
KC6WYF via packet at: KC6WYF(at)W6JBT.SOCAL.CA.USA.NOAM
Restoring 1950 Cessna 170A N9948A... Looking forward to RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com> |
If anyone has an engine hung with a constant speed gov., Could you tell me
if you believe that the gov. will fit with the indentation upside down from
the catalog plan. I don't want to remake it if I can help it.
Thanks
Have A Great Day!
Denny Harjehausen, retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com
RV-6/ Fuselage
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick E. Kelley" <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 flap brace |
Steve Allison wrote:
>
> The flap drawing (sheet 17) and some photos in the manual show how to cut
> and step the inboard end of the flap brace over the rear spar attach
> doubler W-607D. What is not shown anywhere is how to fit the outboard end
> of the flap brace over the .040 W-607E doubler. How is everyone else
> handling this one?
>
> I can see two options:
>
> 1. Ignore the .040 step. Not really sure I want to do this.
>
> 2. Cut the flap brace where the flange steps up on the W-607E doubler,
> re-bend the flange to fit over the .040 step. I think this is a
> better option.
I asked the same question a short while back and the consensus seemed to
be to use option #2. That's the way I did it and it worked out fine. I
made a cut from the outboard lightning hole to the edge of the doubler,
and then a cut from the inboard edge of the same lightning hole to the
edge of the flap brace perpendicular to the edge. This gave me the
cleanest part. Hope this helps.
PatK - RV-6A - Finally the wing parts are being painted!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net> |
aol.com!RV4131rb(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
> Jim,
> I have the same set up you do, with the exception I have the gascolator.
> After the airplane has heat soaked I always run my electric pump for taxi and
> until Im 1000ft agl. Ive also found that pulling my mixture back some helps
> alot.(this sounds counter productive, but it works) I enritchen the mixture
> just prior to take off. Try this if you havent already. Sounds like you have
> every thing else pretty well covered.
> Ryan B
> RV4131RB(at)aol.com
>
Jim,
I have a friend who had a similar problem with vapor lock happening on
the ground. In fact this caused him to have to make a dead stick landing
after climbing to 4500' and getting 3 miles from the airport. Luckily he
made the field. He has an Airflow performance Fuel Injection system.
This is what Don from Airflow recommended to him...
Leave the boost pump on from takeoff until you have reached your desired
altitude, wait a minute longer and then make your throttle/manifold
pressure adjustments. Upon landing, turn on the boost pump for a couple
of minutes prior to letting dowm and leave it on until you've landed.
The reason for this is to keep the fuel lines pressurized thus avoiding
vapor lock.
My friend's problem was that vapor lock was occuring on the ground after
landing and upon taking off again he only turned on the boost pump until
he was climbing out. Upon pulling back the throttle, the engine took a
gulp of vapor and quit. His restarting procedure actually flooded the
engine and a restart was impossible.
Part of his fix was to remove the gas collater, put an inline filter in
the cockpit and shorten the long runs of fuel line he had. In addition,
he bought a kit from Don to allow a fuel return to the tank vent lines.
If you want more details, contact me off-line.
Ed Cole
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Bright <john(at)catlover.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions About Fittings... |
> Matt, I'm using some fuel and oil resistant teflon based thread sealant
> on all my fittings for the sole reason of preventing the threads from
> gauling when tightened.
> --
> Chet Razer
> crazer(at)egyptian.net
The company I work for used to make fuel bodies for central injection on
gasoline automobiles. Teflon tape weeped when used on tapered pipe
threads. We switched to an anerobic LocTite.
--
Best Regards, John Bright, Newport News, VA, USA, john(at)catlover.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | How to prime lots of pieces at once? |
" The majority of Van's kits are shipped to Australia via sea and we do
not have any problems with corrosion. Just make sure your storage area
is dry and you should be fine."
AND - Make sure you don't do something stupid like I did. I left my
main wing skins on the floor of my concrete hangar for about a month.
When I picked up the bottom skin some water had become trapped between
them and it was totally corroded. I'm talking white. Terrible white
powder. It took a half hour with a scotchbrite pad to get through it
all. Concrete + aluminum + water = battery. Battery = corrosion.
-Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David J. Fitzgerald" <theredbaron(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Soundproofing a garage |
Hello all,
I have an interesting question. Has anyone done any soundproofing on a
garage to keep down the external noise? I looked in the archives and
found no mention of soundproofing a building. After much thought, I
bought two rolls of R-11 insulation (with sound suppression) and put it
on the garage door. This reduced the sound in my driveway about 40-50%.
I live in a fairly strict neighborhood and I dont want any complaints.
I generally work until about 9:00p with the compressor (belt-driven of
course). Any other thoughts on soundproofing?
--
-----------------------------------
David Fitzgerald
RV-8 Serial #80333
theredbaron(at)earthlink.net
-----------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bumflyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator trim preferances |
Boy do I have strong opinions on this subject. (Elevator Trim).
I bought and installed the electric elevator trim. I bought Matt's governor.
This gives you not only speed control but the added options of putting in as
many trim switches as you want. I have two but will soon install the third.
One on each stick and one in the center.
For four years I found little to recommend it and grumbled over the cost and
added complexity. As I flew everyone else's manual trim and found they work
very smooth and easy, I further lost faith in my choice made years earlier.
Now I have flown with my system and I love it. It is really great. What
everyone said about it being too fast was wrong. It is just right! (maybe
because of Matt's gov ?). I am absolutely delighted. At this point the
150-200 bucks seems small compared to the 50K I've put in my simple VFR bird.
The only option I like better is the electric flaps. ...... But that's
another story.
Bottom line. Both are great systems. Electric is more expensive but
lighter. There are no CG differences IMHO. While the electric is lighter,
what weight it does have is aft..... And requires added lead to counter
balance it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: B&C Lightweight starters |
<<(Snip) It doesn't take too many pastings of a good company to
cause them unjustified harm. (Snip)
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection >>
Somehow I can relate to this statement. I wonder if Bob Treuter modifies
starters, also??
Jim Ayers
LesDrag(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bumflyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: FAA finds several design omissions |
I don't usually reply when I am emotional but this time I am
First of all IMHO the title of this is wrong. It was not the FAA who "found
several design omissions".!! It(he, she?) was identified as a DAR. In fact
the FAA is very very familiar with Van's design. Now I realize this thread
came from another design that was 'inspected' but I don't want any confusion
on this.
Second, I just had my RV-6A inspected by the real FAA. It was three weeks
ago and his name was David Soucie, from the Maintenance division of the
Denver FSDO. It was a two and a half hour ordeal where he checked everything
I could imagine. He had told me over the phone to remove all inspection
panels, the floor skin (so he could see all push rod terminations), the
cowling and the spinner. He used a light and mirror (which I gladly
provided) got inside the fuselage, etc. He identified 33 discrepancies and
three items which were recommended for inclusion on my annual condition
inspection. Of the 33 he identified three for correction before flight and I
was required to submit a letter saying I had corrected these before he issued
my Airworthiness Certificate. In every case he not only told me what he
thought could be improved, he told me exactly how he would do it and usually
had other options.
Although he did identify a couple things he wished Van would change in the
design, these were certainly not in the category of omissions of flaws. He
was everything I could have hoped for as an inspector. He did everything I
asked for. Absolutely nothing he identified could be called nit picking
(although I asked him to be). Everything was useful and I did every one of
them before I flew. (with great confidence I might add). For those of you
with Air Force experience it was an OK flight.
All right I've got it off my chest. Don't bad mouth the FAA out of habit.
Don't always assume they are bad . I find nothing to flame about the
individuals who wrote the thread or the replies so far. It's just that it
provoked a related response. Am I the only one who has had good experience
with the FAA?
D Walsh, RV-6A with 2.9 hours. I don't work for Van's , the FAA or any one
else.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ELECTRIC ARTIFICIAL HORIZON |
<< RV-List message posted by: David Foord
>Hi Fellow Listers
>
>I have just heard about electric AH's that are available from
>decommissioned military aircraft (Noel, they are the Bosboks): some new,
>some overhauled - but all with green (military) tags. They are priced >at
>about $200,00 each.
> >>
How do I find out where to get these??
Jon Scholl
bcg007(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <RNuckolls(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | B&C Starters . . . |
//I had a B&C Lightweight starter from new on my RV6. =
//In the 160 or so hours it flew I had about five =
//failures all to do with not throwing in. I faxed =
//lycoming who said they no longer ship these starters =
//because of problems with the throw in solenoid.
Didn't get an answer from the gentleman when
I asked if it were indeed a B&C starter. I just
re-read his post; he contacted Lycoming directly
which means it was a new starter on a new engine
and was most certainly NOT a B&C starter. I belive
the starter in question is a Lycoming clone of the
B&C unit.
//Does anyone know of a mod program or upgrade for these starters?
//I am now using a skytek starter. I have a near new but useless =
//B&C in the garage.
Contact me direct by e-mail or telephone (316-685-8617) and
I'll arrange for a hell-of-a-deal trade-in on your =
original starter on a new B&C starter. =
//Although I'm not familiar with the B&C starter, it's not =
//uncommon to have a situation in which the wiring and/or =
//the ignition switch is inadequate of providing enough =
//power to 'pull' the solenoid piston. =
The B&C starters all use the two-stage engagement solenoid
pioneered on cars (imports first I think) about 20 years
ago. The solenoids have TWO windings . . . a series and
parallel winding that provides a few millisconds of extra
umph to engage the starter at the instant of starter switch =
closure. I wrote an article for my publication a couple
of years ago that described the 30 amp inrush requirement.
If anyone is interested in the technical details of this
phenomenon, a #10 SASE to me at 6936 Bainbridge Road, Wichita,
KS, 67226-1008 will get a you a copy of the article. Write
"Starter Solenoid Article" on the back of the envelope.
// . . . In this case, an old trick is to add another relay =
//(ford solenoid), activated by the ignition switch which =
//then can provide a larger power source (battery) to the =
//starter. =
More than an old trick . . . it's been the STANDARD recommended
installation technique for B&C starters since day-one.
/You sure your talking about a B&C million dollar starter?
Actually $550 . . . the same price as it entered the marketplace
about ten years ago . . how many other products have held the
line on pricing for so long?
/That's a mighty expensive boat anchor. My impression of the guy =
/who sells these things isn't a good one. I've talked to him a couple =
/of times at Sun"N"Fun. His sales pitch is all about how good =
/his product is and what a piece of crap the skytech starter is.
In what way do you disagree with the assessment? Do you prefer
brass bushings over ball bearings? Is the nose-casting support =
of the pinion shaft superior to the cantilever design of the =
B&C? Have you compared casting thickness of the web between =
the motor and the mounting base? Isn't worth a bit more to =
get investment castings instead of sand castings?
=
/When I asked him why his product cost 3 times more than skytech . . =
/ . . . . =
Hmmmm $550 versus $400 is only 1.37 times more.
/ . . . he informed me that the Skytech was built from used parts.
=
I personally conducted a teardown inspection of a factory fresh
Skytech starter several years ago. I can tell you that the motor
was at best a low-dollar rebuild effort from an automotive parts
jobber . . . they didn't even bother to buff off the corrosion.
Skytek's latest offering is a PM motor design (stock Ford) that
is two pounds lighter than the B&C starter. I understand that
Skytek has changed hands and I would expect the new owner to
work diligently to upgrade his product. The PM design may be
all new . . . at this time I don't know. =
In the interest of educating myself, I'd like to offer =
Skytek PM starter owners the following: if for any reason you
would like to upgrade to a B&C starter, contact me and I'll
arrange a 100% credit of your Skytek as a trade-in for a new =
B&C replacement. This is a one-time, first-come-first-served
offer that will let me disassemble and evaluate Skytek's =
later production. The results of that inspection will be
available to anyone with an interest.
/Well he convinced me, I went across the hall and bought a skytech =
/(No Regrets). Im sorry I dont think there's a starter on the market =
/worth what he's asking.
Please detail the rational that prompts your assertion. I
can cite hundreds of product comparisons where consumers
happily pay 37% more to acquire very specific design improvements.
In the computer world, you might pay this much just to upgrade
from a 14" monitor to a 16" monitor.
In this case, wouldn't you pay 37% more to have 100% ball
bearing, no bearings exposed to the elements, and a =
starter that works well with all battery technologies. The =
PM Skytec operates as a pure shunt-wound motor. Fixed- =
field offered by permanent magnets as opposed to variable-
field presented by series wound motors is a BIG difference =
in cranking ability when working with smaller or worn batteries. =
=
B&C has considered the PM design as a means of reducing parts =
count and costs - and rejected it each time. PM motors =
represent too much compromise in performance. Would it be =
worth a bit more to get a casting with enough meat in the =
interface web to resist deflection that compromises gear =
tooth interface?
/In all fairness though I know a few people who have his =
/starters and alternators and are completely satisfied.
/( with no problems) Im surprised to hear your having difficulty. =
/Im sure if you get a hold of B&C they will make it right.
You betcha . . . if anyone has any beef with B&C, I'd
like to know about it . . . . contact me directly and
I'll guarantee that your problems will be quickly
addressed. Bill has a lot of balls in the air at once
and he might let something get buried on his desk
(it's piled about two feet deeper than mine!). However,
I'll assure everyone participating in this list that there's
no reason for any difficulty with a B&C product to go
unresolved.
I am quite certain that the situation that seeded this
thread did not involve a B&C product. According to my
latest "gee-two", Lycoming currently ships engines with three
different brands of starters: Electro-Systems (old Prestolite
design), Skytek and a relatively new offering from Lamar
(appears to be a cross between the Prestolite design
and a more modern motor). Irrespective of starter brand,
every Lycoming engine bolted into a Robinson Helicopter,
get's a new B&C starter. There must be a reason why . . . .
Regards,
Bob . . . =
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DoOOo=3D(_)=3DoOOo=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rimbold(at)apollo.hp.com (Rob Rimbold) |
| Subject: | How to prime lots of pieces at once? |
Thanks for the reply!
We're going to be using Deft, a water-thinned opaque primer, so I
can't rely on seeing things printed on the metal.
I've received a few replies of the opinion that I shouldn't prime
until necessary, i.e. not all at once before cutting, drilling, etc.
I may go that route.
'Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Hanna <peterh(at)rdmcorp.com> |
Sounds like a good reason to shut off the incoming air to a cabin air heat
muff for summer flying.
>
>>
>>Listers,
>>
>>I am having some vapor lock problems and rough engine operation after flying
>>and then letting the plane sit for awhile when changing passengers,
>>
>>Jim Cone
>>RV-6A flying (60+) hours and having a ball.
>>jamescone(at)aol.com
>>
>
>Jim
>I don't know if you have a heat muff or not but I took mine off last summer
>and it reduced that rough ground running engine considerably. As well it
>kept the cabin cooler around my feet. The heat muff is still working when
>the knob is off, it is just dumping the heat into the engine compartment. I
>did have to put it back on for these cold canadian winters though!
>
>Tom Martin
>
Peter Hanna, RDM Corp, 4-608 Weber St. North, Waterloo, Canada, N2V1K4.
B: 519-746-8483 X224, 1-800-567-6227 X224, Fax: 519-746-3317.
Email: peterh(at)rdmcorp.com. -6 Fuselage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gretzw(at)tcplink.nrel.gov |
| Subject: | Re: Pitot tube location |
I can provide to you Gary, or anyone else, a complete mounting bracket
kit for mounting a heated pitot tube on your RV. Contact me at (303)
770-3811 evenings or weekends. You may write to me at Warren Gretz,
3664 E. Lake Dr. Littleton, CO 80121.
Warren Gretz
Denver area
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RV-List: Pitot tube location
Date: 5/22/97 9:18 AM
I have purchased and installed an OEM pitot tube (Cessna type) at the
location specified in the plans on my RV-6. I see the Chief's Aircraft
is selling an extension plate to extend the distance between the bottom
of the wing and the pitot tube. Presently, I have about 6-8 inches
between the base of the wing and my tube (about the same as my C-172K).
My questions are...
How far from the base of the wing should a pitot tube be located?
Will I have incorrect airspeed reading if the tube is 6-8 inches from
the base?
What will the differences be?
Thanks,
Gary Kozinski RV-6 20038 still riveting along
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bumflyer(at)aol.com |
FWIW. It looks to me like it would fit, as far as the linkages and
clearances when installed, but not sure you could get it off without pulling
engine! My vote is to change it. It doesn't sound so bad compared to other
rework I have done.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough) |
I am having some vapor lock problems and rough engine operation after
flying
and then letting the plane sit for awhile when changing passengers,
etc. (I
First let me say I'm no expert on this. I have a similar problem but I
believe I have fuel vapourisation, not vapour lock. My engine surges
after being heavily heat soaked and when at idle. When the RPM is
raised above about 1200, the engine runs smooth.
FWIW, the air beetle operated autogas with the ellison and didn't have
much of a problem (even in the Nigerian heat) as there was a return
line from the throttle body to the tank.
I have a fuel injected 360 so the problem may be slightly different,
but from what I can figure out, much of the heat that soaks into the
mechanical pump comes through conduction from the block. It would be
nice if there was some way insulate here, maybe with an asbestos gasket
????
I have shortened and re routed fuel lines. It seems to have improved
but its still there, it showed up while taxying in at Sun'nfun. My next
step is to cover all my lines with a heat reflective tape that is used
on race car systems and then to move the gascolator to the wing root. I
had considered taping the exhaust with asbestos (as they also do in
race cars) but decided against it on advice from others.
I've also heard about something called a "cool can" that is used in
race cars to keep fuel cool. I don't know anything else about it though.
Tom Martin's advice about removing the heat muff sounds good and I
might just try that.
Jim, if you want to talk about it off the list, send me a note at
ken.hitchmough(at)irap.nrc..ca as my normal mail server will be off line
for a week.
Ken Hitchmough
RV6A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Summers, Stuart" <ssummers(at)qnpbnes4.telstra.com.au> |
hi there,
I am building an RV6a in Brisbane Australia. I have
started on the empenage and progressing slowly.
Hope to here from you for further information.
regards...
Stuart Summers.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)A.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DAR Experience (Forward from Zenith-List) |
>>Had the local DAR do a preliminary inspection of my aircraft
>>prior to closure of the front skin and final prep for
>>painting...
This is a classic case for the argument to 'know your inspector' prior to
employing his services. I'm not extremely familiar with the Zenith, but
several of his squawks were over standard design features.
I've never employed an A&P or IA without knowing something about him first,
and my DAR will fall into the same catagory. I'll use one of the local
DARs with lots of RV experience.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 (now N601DB)
installing electrical and avionics
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)op.net> |
An RV-4 that I have had my eye on for 2 years is up for sale. Nearly a year
ago, the owner died and his wife declined to put the plane up for sale
until last month. The engine is a Factory Reman 0-320 E2D with 30 hours on
it. The aircraft has not flown for more than an hour in the last 8 months
(maybe not at all). The airframe is a beauty ( well built and well painted
), but I am in doubt about the engine at this point. It has been sitting
around in a hangar in the Northeast. Do any of you engine "mavens" know of
a good way to check the engine without a tear down? The "10 minutes every
month warm-up" is probably worse than leaving the engine alone. What a
shame! I thank you in advance for any comments or advice.
Louis Willig
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Soundproofing a garage |
David J. Fitzgerald wrote:
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> I have an interesting question. Has anyone done any soundproofing on a
> garage to keep down the external noise? I looked in the archives and
> found no mention of soundproofing a building. After much thought, I
> bought two rolls of R-11 insulation (with sound suppression) and put it
> on the garage door. This reduced the sound in my driveway about 40-50%.
> I live in a fairly strict neighborhood and I dont want any complaints.
> I generally work until about 9:00p with the compressor (belt-driven of
> course). Any other thoughts on soundproofing?
> --
> -----------------------------------
> David Fitzgerald
> RV-8 Serial #80333
> theredbaron(at)earthlink.net
> -----------------------------------Isolating the noise source
is the key. Have you tried putting your
compressor on a thick rubber matt to reduce the vibration into the floor?
You may also want to loosely envelop your compressor with some sort of
sound dampening material, but make sure you don't let it overheat.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
>provoked a related response. Am I the only one who has had good experience
>with the FAA?
>
>D Walsh, RV-6A with 2.9 hours. I don't work for Van's , the FAA or any one
>else.
D,
I, too, had a good experience with the FAA when I had the inspection done
on my RV-6. Rick Johnson, of the Lincoln, NE FSDO, inspected my RV-6. He
checked it out from 4 to 7 pm (after his regular work hours). He spent 95%
of his time looking at the airplane. He hardly looked at my builder's log
or the pictures I took. Just spent time asking questions and looking at the
airplane. He crawled up under the instrument panel with an inspection
mirror and flashlight. I felt that he did a very thorough and professional
job. He was an A&P/I.A. and knew his way around general aviation.
He only came up with a couple items. He wanted a couple of clamps on a
gyro line (bulbed fittings as opposed to barbed) and, since I'd used torque
seal on most fastners, pointed out that I'd forgotten to "torque seal" the
bolts on the carb air box.
I'd like to suggest that RVers who have completed the inspection process
write to the list with any problems that they ran into so that builders
might avoid any problems when their time comes for inspection.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)navix.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FAA finds several design omissions |
aol.com!Bumflyer(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
> All right I've got it off my chest. Don't bad mouth the FAA out of habit.
> Don't always assume they are bad . I find nothing to flame about the
> individuals who wrote the thread or the replies so far. It's just that it
> provoked a related response. Am I the only one who has had good experience
> with the FAA?
>
> D Walsh, RV-6A with 2.9 hours. I don't work for Van's , the FAA or any one
> else.
I to wanted to respond when I saw this post. My experience has been
similar to yours I have always had good expeirnces with the FAA when
they inspected the airplanes I have built. they have always been
friendly and helpful and have given good suggestions, I have never used
a DAR but have friends that have and it seems they don't feel like
they are earning their money unless they are finding fault with
something. One DAR made someone change the numbers on his airplane
because there was not enough contrast, what was funny about this
was just at that moment a FAA airplane was landing that had exactly
the same color as the RV (light gray numbers on white). I realize
I live in RV country and the FAA here is very familiar with Van's
designs. So far FAA does not charge for inspection and DAR charge
anywhere fron $100.00 to $250.00. I know one DAR that made a comment
to me that "you homebuilt guy's think you can get away with anything."
I am sure that there are good DAR's out there just like there are
bad FAA out there but as long as FAA is willing to inspect I will
use them.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Altitude encoder |
I bought a used Terra TRT250 transponder and AT3000 encoder at
Sun'n'Fun.
After examining the AT3000 I found that it only outputs 9 bits (a
maximum of 0 - 511 numbers). This ssems to indicate a resolution of 50
or maybe 100 ft (readings will jump in increments of 50 or 100 or ?
feet).
Does anyone on the list (Bob N?) have specifics on this? What is the
output supposed to be at 0 feet (@ 29.92 InHg = 14.69 psi) and at 30,000
ft? Is it a straight binary output (not gray, ASCII or some other
code)? I plan to calibrate it by hooking it up to a vacum pump together
with an altimeter and possibly an 0 - 15 psi (absolute) pressure sensor.
Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry.K.Daudt" <74373.2451(at)CompuServe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: What a shame... |
New oil mixed with a qt of Marvel Mystery oil get it good and hot change oil
check the screen and for leaks more new oil and gas and go for it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rvbildr(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Soundproofing a garage |
David,
I can't believe you couldn't find anything on garages. A couple of guys
made a career out of garage modification.
Mal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Davi Howard <snoopyar(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Matronics.COM Back OnLine!!! |
Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001 wrote:
>
>
> Hello RVrs!
>
> After a great deal of hair pulling, my ISP finally has the matronics.com
> domain back online! I have tested the email pretty well and it seems to
> be working normally again.
>
> The problems with the Matronics Web and FTP servers have also been resolved.
> The good news is that the new directory structure imposed by the ISP (and
> consequently breaking most of my web pages and ftp server) have actually
> been an improvment. I have spent most of last evening and tonight redoing
> the web pages and ftp server to conform to the new layout and everything seems
> to be working very well. The best news is that the archive volumes are
> now available via 'http' hyperlinks instead of 'ftp' hyperlinks and should
> work with everyone's browser (hyperlinks via ftp is broken in many browsers).
>
> I have also been queueing any messages posted to the RV-List in the last
> week (starting about last Thursday) and will repost these to the List
> following this message. If you posted a message and don't see it, assume
> that it hit the bit-bucket last week sometime during the bad part of the
> outage.
>
> Please feel free to start posting messages to rv-list(at)matronics.com as normal!
>
> Also, please have a look at the matronics web pages, archive files, and
> videos and let me know if you have any problems. The URL is:
>
> http://www.matronics.com
>
> and the anonymous ftp server is:
>
> ftp.matronics.com
>
> Wew, it feels good to be back!
>
> Matt Dralle
> RV-List Admin.
> Matronics
>
> --
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Good Job Matt! glad to have you back. I for one was going through
withdrawls. I didn't realize just how much I enjoyed the list until it
was gone. I even went out looking for the Harmon Rocket list just to get
a fix. Thanks
Davi
RV-4 last wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rvbildr(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Is there a autopilot available for RV's |
Chris,
Let me know what you find out about the auto pilot situation for the RVs.
I'm interested in the same for my RV-6 project. Thanks.
Mal
rvbildr(at)mindspring.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Davi Howard <snoopyar(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 flap brace |
Steve Allison wrote:
>
>
> Here is a question for those of you who have managed to fit the aileron
> and flap to the wing.
>
> The flap drawing (sheet 17) and some photos in the manual show how to cut
> and step the inboard end of the flap brace over the rear spar attach
> doubler W-607D. What is not shown anywhere is how to fit the outboard end
> of the flap brace over the .040 W-607E doubler. How is everyone else
> handling this one?
>
> I can see two options:
>
> 1. Ignore the .040 step. Not really sure I want to do this.
>
> 2. Cut the flap brace where the flange steps up on the W-607E doubler,
> re-bend the flange to fit over the .040 step. I think this is a
> better option.
>
> I probably answered my own question here, but I thought I would see how
> everyone else handles this "undocumented feature".
>
> Thanks,
> Steve Allison
>
> RV-6A N???SA
> left wing almost done....sure hope the right one goes faster!
I just cut the brace about half way down and the step down to the rear
spar was easy at that point.
Davi
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Fritz <Qmax1(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Soundproofing a garage |
Hi Dave,
I live in a condo with a one-car garage so sound awareness is mandated. =
Unfortunately, I did some work in this area several years ago. I say
unfortunately because I learned that it doesn't take much of a hole in th=
e
insulation in let most of the racket through. F'rinstance, say you've go=
t
a box 1 foot on a side with a sound generator inside. Assume the
insulation is perfect so zero noise escapes. Now knock a 1" hole in the
box and you get 80% of the total racket. Don't believe it? Leave the
laundryroom door ajar just a smidge when the washer is out of balance and=
then close the door that last 1/8". Spooky ain't it.
Moral: don't drive yourself crazy with frustration trying to get the last=
db. Give it your best shot so that the neighbors know you're thinking of=
them and then take a lesson from the party animal in the apartment buildi=
ng
and invite everyone to the shindig.
Cheers,
Bob Fritz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <RNuckolls(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Altitude encoder |
/This ssems to indicate a resolution of 50 or maybe 100 ft =
/(readings will jump in increments of 50 or 100 or ? feet). =
/Does anyone on the list (Bob N?) have specifics on this? =
/What is the output supposed to be at 0 feet (Hg =3D 14.69 psi) =
/and at 30,000 ft? Is it a straight binary output (not gray, =
/ASCII or some other code)? I plan to calibrate it by hooking =
/it up to a vacum pump together with an altimeter and possibly =
/an 0 - 15 psi (absolute) pressure sensor. =
I dug out Darryl Philips disertation on Mode C and looking
at the chart in the back I find that 9 bits will cover you
up through 30,y00 feet or so . . . the tenth bit doesn't go
high until 30,800 feet. The resolution is 100 foot steps
and they try to set the encoder so that the least significant
bit transitions half way between the 100 foot increments.
I don't immediatly see a pattern. All zeros is not a valid
It's almost a gray code . . . quoting Darryl's book:
The altitude coding pattern was developed when mechanical
encoders were the only way to digitize the data. It's some-
what ass backwards with D2 as the most significant bit followed
by D4, A1, A2, A4, B1, B2, B4 in a gray code patern that changes
every 500 feet. The least significant bit is C4 with the
C-digit following a recyclic code different from the gray
pattern. Only one bit changes for each increment in
altitude. Bit D1 is never used and always remains zero.
=
Also note that on Mode C codes, transponder input data
are inverted. Logic "1" is ground or zero volts. If you
want the data tables through 30,800 feet, I can fax them
to you. =
Regards,
Bob . . . =
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DoOOo=3D(_)=3DoOOo=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elon <elon.o(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Ken Hitchmough wrote:
(much snipped). . . I've also heard about something called a "cool can" that is
used in race cars
to keep fuel cool. I don't know anything else about it though.
Ken Hitchmough
----------------------------------------------
The fuel line is coiled and inserted into a leak-proof can that is then filled
with ice or ice
water. Drag racers have popularized this idea. Most people think by chilling the
fuel you
increase the fuel density and the air-fuel mix therefore geting more power out
of the engine.
Theoritically correct, but not the real reason bracket racers use the trick.
IF fuel temperature varied during every run through out the day, so would performane.
Bracket
racers must repeat their dial-in (ET) EXACTLY. I have won & lost races by 0.002
second. (about 4"
at 114 mph). Controlling as many variables as possible will allow more predictable
performance.
Having fuel temp always 32f is only one of a myriad of variables to try to keep
constant.
After a short period of time the ice will melt and the cool-can will come up to
temp. They would
not be of much use in an aircraft.
Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: instruments, audio panel |
Just happend to see some comments on what makes a good engine instrument.
We manufacture the Engine Information System. It is being used in a many of
RV's etc. It is a digital engine instrument that monitors all engine
parameter in one package. It typically costs $600 for a system complete with
all probes etc. There are about 1000 units in the field now.
I don't want to advertise on this list unless you want to hear more of the
details. If anyone would like information about it, feel free to call me, or
e-mail me and I will send you the product brochure and the guide
"Instrumenting Your Aircraft Engine" which discusses some of the things
touched on in the e-mail.
Thanks,
Greg Toman
Grand Rapids Technologies, Inc.
(616) 531-4893
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net> |
| Subject: | H 404 to the HS 614 |
I have the skins drilled to skeleton to the point of installing the H 404
on the plans it says to trim
H 404 to clear the HS 614 & is it just sort of a notch?
On one side the HS 614 is real close to rivet hole where
the notch goes can or should I trim the edge of HS 614
by 1/8 inch to allow rivet to be formed? It looks like
I might of made flange a little to long.
Regards Mike Comeaux mcomeaux(at)cmc.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Altitude encoder |
| From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS) |
writes:
>
>I bought a used Terra TRT250 transponder and AT3000 encoder at
>Sun'n'Fun.
>After examining the AT3000 I found that it only outputs 9 bits (a
>maximum of 0 - 511 numbers). This ssems to indicate a resolution of
>50 or maybe 100 ft (readings will jump in increments of 50 or 100 or ?
>feet).
The encoder should read out in 100 foot increments (Mode C standard).
>
>Does anyone on the list (Bob N?) have specifics on this? What is the
>output supposed to be at 0 feet (@ 29.92 InHg = 14.69 psi) and at
>30,000
>ft? Is it a straight binary output (not gray, ASCII or some other
>code)? I plan to calibrate it by hooking it up to a vacum pump
>together
>with an altimeter and possibly an 0 - 15 psi (absolute) pressure
>sensor.
>
>Finn
>
The system you bought has had a good reputation. Why not just install
it, have a static/pitot system test performed (per FAR's), and go fly.
If you need a copy of the wiring, I can dig out the documentation that
came with mine.
Jim Ayers
Less_Drag(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: B&C Starters . . . |
Bob,
As usual well thought out and well said. My Skytech still works fine though
and my price was $220.00.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Altitude encoder |
I'm getting blank screens on the Nuckolls messages. Anyone else?
This has just started happening since the RV-list came back on line.
Jim Sears
RV-6A #22220 (fuselage coming along well)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bennett(at)healey.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: Soundproofing a garage |
> bought two rolls of R-11 insulation (with sound suppression) and put it
> on the garage door. This reduced the sound in my driveway about 40-50%.
> I live in a fairly strict neighborhood and I dont want any complaints.
> I generally work until about 9:00p with the compressor (belt-driven of
> course). Any other thoughts on soundproofing?
If the noise of neighbours complaining still worries you, just turn
up the radio.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 building sliding canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov> |
I've read this thread with great interest. The FAA is like any
organization, government or otherwise, there are some employees who are
extremely good at what they do, and others who are not so good. The
same is true for designees. It is inequitable to classify the entire
agency by a few bad eggs. Bob, I've worked with Rick on many accident
investigations and I agree, he fits into the "extremely good" category.
Regardless of who does your airworthiness inspection, any discrepancies
they point out should be taken in a positive light. The individual is
not trying to prevent you from flying your airplane. He's trying to
prevent you from breaking it or killing yourself. Certainly, some
discrepancies may be minor, and may even be negotiable. Consider
yourself lucky if the inspector does a thorough job and nit-picks. He's
probably finding things that you overlooked. Many of us, myself
included, build in a vacuum with very few other eyes on the project.
Take every possible opportunity to have other people look at what you've
done and what you're doing. You'll be surprised at what they'll find!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov> |
| Subject: | instruments, audio panel |
Hi Greg,
I'm glad to see you on the list. I had the opportunity to chat with you
last year at OSH. I've heard very favorable things about your engine
information system. There's been much discussion on the list about
similar systems. I don't think anyone on the list will object if you
posted a brief summary of your system and listed some of the pros and
cons. It would be welcome information to me and I think most of the
listers.
>
>
>Just happend to see some comments on what makes a good engine instrument.
>
>We manufacture the Engine Information System. It is being used in a many of
>RV's etc. It is a digital engine instrument that monitors all engine
>parameter in one package. It typically costs $600 for a system complete with
>all probes etc. There are about 1000 units in the field now.
>
>I don't want to advertise on this list unless you want to hear more of the
>details. If anyone would like information about it, feel free to call me, or
>e-mail me and I will send you the product brochure and the guide
>"Instrumenting Your Aircraft Engine" which discusses some of the things
>touched on in the e-mail.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Greg Toman
>Grand Rapids Technologies, Inc.
>(616) 531-4893
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry D. Hoatson" <lhoatson(at)e2.empirenet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: instruments, audio panel |
aol.com!Grt757(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
Greg,
I'd be interested in seeing your material. Please mail to the following
address.
Larry Hoatson
13506 San Leandro Avenue
Yucaipa, CA 92399
Thanks,
Larry
--
Larry D. Hoatson Yucaipa, CA Redlands (L12) Airport
lhoatson(at)empirenet.com
KC6WYF via packet at: KC6WYF(at)W6JBT.SOCAL.CA.USA.NOAM
Restoring 1950 Cessna 170A N9948A... Looking forward to RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Bergh" <dbergh(at)cyberhighway.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 & 6A Construction Manual |
----------
>
>
> I would like to see what kind of response I receive on this topic.
> I am currently contemplating publishing a detailed construction manual for
> the building of the RV-6 and 6A. This would be a step by step manual along
> with an overwhelming amount of photos and drawings showing exactly what
needs
> to be done along with tips on the many different ways a task can be
> accomplished.
> Also the RV-list archives have been gone thru to assemble question and the
> varied answeres given to solve problems. These would be used in helping
> builderes with their questions.
> I feel this would be of great help to new builders who have never even
held a
> rivet gun, let alone know how much air pressure to use when setting rivets
> for the stiffeners on the rudder for instance, or what to do if that
> inevitable extra hole gets punched in a skin while dimpling.
> I know we have the RV-list to ask these kinds of questions but wouldn't
it be
> nice just to open up an index and review these topics and more.
> Please e-mail me with your comments on this subeject. I appreciate your
time
> in this matter.
>
Sounds like a great idea! Iwould be interested for sure. You can nerver
have too much info when it comes to building these things! Keep us posted.
Dave Bergh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shelby1138(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: IO360 on RV6 |
In a message dated 5/23/97 12:41:13 PM, you wrote:
<>
Paul,
Thanks for the response. Yes, my engine came from a Lake Amphibian. It is an
IO-360 "A1B". What Steve Barnard is using with his Cowling and prop setup is
an engine with the 6th order counterweights. After talking to Hartzell, the
impression from their "sales" rep was that the extended prop should not be a
problem. The problem is there are "no" certified applications that I have
found with the extended prop not using the counterweighted engine.
Apparently, these engines/prop combinations came about as the manufacturers
of the twins tried to create sleaker/longer cowlings by pushing the prop
further and further out.
The Whirlwind or other composites have the merit of being less weight and
less swinging weight which addresses two areas of concern for me. I am still
aways off and given the choice between a certified prop combination with me
having to do my own cowling re-engineering and an uncertified prop setup , I
think I would have to go with the certified set-up. It will be a great deal
more trouble and folks such as Steve who have done this modification have
advised me to not do it, but I am not going to risk a catastrophic and most
assuredly fatal failure to do so.
I am responding to you via the list, because this could be a discussion there
would be some additional input or interests.
Thanks
Shelby In Nashvillle
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 flap brace |
Looking from the top it would be skin, doubler, spar, brace. Be sure to trim
the doubler skin flush with the rear spar otherwise it will interfere with
the flap LE skin when traveling in the up direction.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Altitude encoder |
>B Nuckolls wrote a bunch of very esoteric stuff on mode C code;
Bob:
You never cease to amaze me. Wow. Keep it up.
BTW:
Jim Ayers response, while not so elegant, may be more practical.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Top <jjtop(at)cts.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How to prime lots of pieces at once? |
Rob wrote:
>I've received a few replies of the opinion that I shouldn't prime
>until necessary, i.e. not all at once before cutting, drilling, etc.
>I may go that route.
That won't solve your original problem. It will just compound it. Once your
holes are drilled each piece is unique and must go back in exactly the same
location. Also using Deft you will still want to do a lot of parts at once
because of the time it takes to mix and the short pot life once it is mixed.
John Top
Phone: (619) 549-3556
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Walsh <jwalsh(at)ftp.com> |
| Subject: | instruments, audio panel |
>>Reply to your message of 5/23/97 11:03 AM
I don't think anyone on the list will object if you
posted a brief summary of your system and listed some of the pros a=
nd
cons. It would be welcome information to me and I think most of the
listers.
>>
I would like to throw in my .02 on this topic. I personally have no object=
ion to commercial interests participating on the list. On the contrary, th=
e info. is very much welcome. However, I would ask that people who repres=
ent a commercial interest make it clear in their note or their address. =20
As a hypothetical example:
If Matt were to post a note saying that he has researched fuel flow instrum=
ents and the Matronics Fuel scan is the best, I would object to that. I=
f Matt clearly identifies himself as representing Matronics when he comment=
s on fuel flow instruments, then I have no objection. =20
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Acker <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Has anyone used the prop extension from Aymar-Demuth? I was told it uses
six standard AN bolts attaching it to the crankshaft, and six more attaching
the prop to the extension.
Van's cylindrical extension uses six long bolts (custom made, according to
A-D), each passing from front of prop to the crankshaft flange.
Seems to me the A-D setup would better handle the large torque pulses of the
Lycs' should they loosen, and the bolts are more readily available. Comments?
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
>
>
>I am having some vapor lock problems and rough engine operation after
>flying
>and then letting the plane sit for awhile when changing passengers,
>etc.
>I had considered taping the exhaust with asbestos (as they also do in
>race cars) but decided against it on advice from others.
Good idea: don't do it. I seems like it may overheat the exhaust pipes
>I've also heard about something called a "cool can" that is used in
>race cars to keep fuel cool. I don't know anything else about it though.
>
A cool can is a device that is an aluminum or steel can with several
loops of fuel line in it that you fill with ice (really) to cool the fuel as
it runs the loops. Not to practical for aircraft use. (Yeah, uh, top both
tanks and, uh, check the ice in the cool can, will ya...)
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mauser(at)claris.com (Richard Chandler) |
| Subject: | Re: Altitude encoder |
>
> I'm getting blank screens on the Nuckolls messages. Anyone else?
> This has just started happening since the RV-list came back on line.
Actually, I have a problem with a lot of mime-encoded messages, especially
ones with = at the ends of the lines. I have a Mime enabled mail reader, but
RV-list mail is the only one I have trouble with. (Fortunately my mail reader
has a literal display option). I think that perhaps the Majordomo is
accidentally taking out an important mime header, or else the addition of the
posted by line (Which is a good feature!) is messing up the mime encoding
somehow.
Bob's message on altitude encoders was cut off until halfway through his
response, about an equal number of lines to the text he quoted (with lines
ending in =). At least with my mail reader. The actual message WAS there,
but only in literal mode.
--
Richard Chandler
RV-6: Garage bought and being finished, saving for tools and tail kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd <tmrv6(at)pop.erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop Extensions |
Robert Acker wrote:
>
>
> Has anyone used the prop extension from Aymar-Demuth? I was told it uses
> six standard AN bolts attaching it to the crankshaft, and six more attaching
> the prop to the extension.
>
> Van's cylindrical extension uses six long bolts (custom made, according to
> A-D), each passing from front of prop to the crankshaft flange.
>
> Rob Acker
Rob,
I am using the extension that Mike Demuth carries, although he just had
me order it direct from Lynn. It is made by Lynn Woofter in Florida(I
assume he is still using the same company). I bought my bolts from Van's
for both the extension and the prop(6 bolts for the extension and 6
bolts,nuts and washers fot the prop). They are the special bolts that
are supposed to be used for this application. I believe the bolt issue
has been addressed in the RVaitor.
I have the 4" extension , an 0-320, with a Demuth prop.
--
Todd tmrv6(at)erols.com RV-6 N92TM Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mauser(at)claris.com (Richard Chandler) |
| Subject: | Re: instruments, audio panel |
> I would like to throw in my .02 on this topic. I personally have
> no objection to commercial interests participating on the list. On
> the contrary, the info. is very much welcome. However, I would
> ask that people who repres= ent a commercial interest make it clear
> in their note or their address.
The rule should be like the rule for what corporate sponsors can say at the
end of PBS shows. They can make factual statements, but they can't engage in
advertising. It can be a fine line to tread. The other thing that makes
participation by commercial interests valuable is if they contribute more than
just their own product info.
This topic has come up before, and the best examples of good list citizenship
would be Bob Nuckolls and George and Becky Orndorff, who all have things they
sell (Aerolectric connection or construction videos, etc) but dispense loads
of good free advice.
A bad example would be the guy who got on the list to do nothing but flog his
used engine business.
The good contributors are highly regarderd, revered, valued. People trust
them, and trust their business practices because they give such good advice.
It shows that they care. The engine guy, even if his products were fine, was
regarded with suspicion, since he wasn't acting like part of the community.
(Hmmm, the same can be said of spammers on the net....)
So perhaps the best summary is that the best advertising is being a good
neighbor.
--
Richard Chandler
RV-6: Garage bought and being finished, saving for tools and tail kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
I taxied my RV-6A today for the first time.
I am having a problem with the left side brake. When it applies there is a
loud rubbing sound together with a fairly severe vibration. It happens only
on the left side. The right is fine. I pulled the disks and sanded some glaze
off of them. It did not help. Someone then said to just let them run in and
try it at a higher speed. So I taxied to a running speed and applied both
brakes. Then they operated properly. However from a slower speed or when
initiating a turn, applying the left brake shakes the whole airframe.
I also noticed that the discs that were supplied by Vans has a very high
metal content. I'm told that a higher metal content helps the disks last
longer but a lesser metal content in the disk may eliminate this vibration.
Any thoughts?
Andy Gold
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
You can get this info by email from our auto-responder: for a
directory of aviation related material send email to
infobot(at)pdsig.com for info on the riveting send email to
rivets(at)pdsig.com Hanger Sale list is tools(at)pdsig.com Soundproofing
info is soundprf(at)pdsig.com No message or subject is needed. For hard
copies, send your name and address and we'll mail you the info free of
charge!
Bill Nash
>>While reading some general tips on building the Glastar, I saw your =
offer=20
>>of info on back riveting, hanger sale list of tools, etc., and a sound=20
>>proofing booklet. Please reply by e-mail as to how I can obtain copies =
of=20
>>these items.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>
>>Larry Dodge
>>lhdodge1(at)mmm.com (preferred) or usmmmvqf(at)ibmmail.com (no attachments=20
>>allowed on this one)
>>
AIRCRAFT REMANUFACTURING=20
1291 E.Vista Way, #150
VISTA, CA. 92084 (760) 749 0239 FAX: 749 6384
Aviation Parts Sales Directory: Infobot(at)pdsig.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FAA finds several design omissions |
It sounds like you had a much more thorough inspection then me. My inspector,
a DAR near Albuquerque, spent about 15 minutes looking at the plane. In the
end, he complained about a missing passenger warning decal (its been on
order) and the fact that I had yet to safety wire the prop bolts (I
intentionally omitted that because I want to retorque them after the first
1/2 hour and again before the first flight). I know he didn't look too hard
because he missed the three missing screws on the wing tip light lens.
Frankly, while it is usually a good idea to avoid FAA hassles, I would have
appreciated a more thorough inspection.
By the way, would you consider sharing the list of "omissions" with us. If
they are design corrections, I would like to make the appropriate inspections
and/or changes to mine too.
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
How does jon johanson fly around the world (twice) with less than 12
inch numbers? I don't want 12" numbers but it seems they are (supposed
to be) necessary for crossing international boundaries, as well as
entering large airports. Is there a loop hole here or something?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Prop Extensions |
Robert Acker wrote:
>
>
> Has anyone used the prop extension from Aymar-Demuth? I was told it uses
> six standard AN bolts attaching it to the crankshaft, and six more attaching
> the prop to the extension.
>
> Van's cylindrical extension uses six long bolts (custom made, according to
> A-D), each passing from front of prop to the crankshaft flange.
>
> Seems to me the A-D setup would better handle the large torque pulses of the
> Lycs' should they loosen, and the bolts are more readily available. Comments?
>
> Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q
Rob
I have on order a Sabre Manufacturing prop extension( the one that
Aymar-Demuth sells ), it should be here in about three weeks.
I asked which extension they sell the most of and it was the twelve
hole, it seems to me that the twelve bolt set up would handle the
torque a little better, of course I'm just guessing here.
I also had the extension machined so I could safty tie all the bolts.
Mike at Aymar has set up a lot of RV's so I don't think he would
steer us wrong.
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
Why are the aluminum fuel lines such a pain in the @#* to install.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin & Theresa Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: brake problems |
>
>I taxied my RV-6A today for the first time.
>
>I am having a problem with the left side brake. When it applies there is a
>loud rubbing sound together with a fairly severe vibration. It happens only
>on the left side. The right is fine.
<--snip-->
Andy,
I would try swapping components from left to right side, one at a time
(disk, pads, caliper, wheel, etc), doing a taxi test after each swap.
You'll know which component is causing the problem when the vibration swaps
to the right side. If you have switched everything, and the left side is
still the bad one, then maybe there is something screwy about the left
landing gear leg, or the way it is mounted.
Good luck,
Kevin Horton
future RV-8 builder (lurking and gathering info, tools, etc)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca
Engineering Test Pilot
Transport Canada
Ottawa, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Acker <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop Extensions |
>I am using the extension that Mike Demuth carries...
>I have the 4" extension , an 0-320, with a Demuth prop.
>
>Todd tmrv6(at)erols.com RV-6 N92TM Flying
Todd,
Good info, thanks. FYI..the new extension is 2 1/2" long, for using fixed
pitch props on the c/s (now standardized upon by Van's) cowl.
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ammeter <ammeterj(at)seanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop Extensions |
I'm not sure I understand this. My prop extension, which I got from Van's,
uses six short bolts to fasten the extension to the crankshaft and six long
bolts to fasten the prop to the extension. You're telling me that A-D uses
the same system as Van's.
Has Van changed his method of attaching the prop to the extension and now
uses long bolts that go all the way from the front of the prop, through the
extension and into the crankshaft flange??
John
>
>Has anyone used the prop extension from Aymar-Demuth? I was told it uses
>six standard AN bolts attaching it to the crankshaft, and six more attaching
>the prop to the extension.
>
>Van's cylindrical extension uses six long bolts (custom made, according to
>A-D), each passing from front of prop to the crankshaft flange.
>
>Seems to me the A-D setup would better handle the large torque pulses of the
>Lycs' should they loosen, and the bolts are more readily available. Comments?
>
>Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q
>
>
>
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
206-525-5445
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ted_boudreaux(at)om.cv.hp.com |
| Subject: | Sensenich Propeller question |
Hi everyone,
After checking out the senenich web site, I have a question for all of
you who are using the O-320 prop. What's your experience performing
aerobatics with this prop? Sensenich recommends against aerobatics
due to the risk of overspeeding the prop. I'm looking forward to
doing loops & rolls in my RV4 when it's done, and don't want to be
limited by the propeller. Opinions?
Thanks,
Ted Boudreaux RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FAA Inspections |
> I'd like to suggest that RVers who have completed the inspection process
>write to the list with any problems that they ran into so that builders
>might avoid any problems when their time comes for inspection.
>
>Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)navix.net>
Yes, that would help a great deal. The list Matt put on sat me to thinking
about some things that I had not thought about. I was at a EAA meeting a few
weeks ago and a RV-4 builder had just finished with his inspection by the
FAA. He had very positive things to say about his inspector. This is been
echoed in this area by several builders. The builder was also brave enough
to give us a few of the squawks he had to redo right in front of God and
everybody. Which sent me out to the shop as soon as I got home to check,
which turned to save me from one of the same mistake.
Another builder of an RV-3 said he had to do a engineering modification to
one wing. He had drilled the leading edge of top skin to close to the spar
flange edge. He had installed a rivet between each of the rivets set back
closer to the web thinking that would do it. The FAA squawked it. A real
heart stopper. The FAA also worked with him to salvage the wing. A engineer
worked out a doubler repair placed under the flange which the builder said
was about an 1 1/2" wide and ran the length of the wing. It was re-riveted
with skins to the spar flange and an extra row of rivets the length of the
wing just below flange was installed. Inspite of all this he said he was
greatful to the Inspector for his help. He has been happily flying for 8
months now.
Have A Great Day!
Denny Harjehausen, retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com
RV-6/ Fuselage
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dzan(at)pacifier.com (Richard F. Zander) |
| Subject: | RV-6A BLDR SUBSCRIBE OK |
Just learned of your address. Thanks.
Dick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh Table - Van's Banquet |
Again this summer, I plan to reserve a table for all us listers that go
to Van's Banquet, so we can get to know each other better. Bill Benedict
was very nice to us last year.
We ended up having several no shows, and I felt embarrassed when the
place is sold out and here I'm holding some vacant spots.
So this year I will strive to do better, by keeping the above sentence
posted each time I show the list to date, about once each week. This
year we have about 300 more listers than last year, so I'm guessing we
will have about 30 or so at our table.
So we don't clutter the list, send your name and the number in your party
to me at cecilth(at)juno.com
About once a week starting in June, I will post the roster to the list,
that way you can make sure I received your e-mail.
Before July 29th (when I leave for mecca), keep me posted if I need to
remove your name.
Cecil Hatfield
Plans No. 23581
working on the fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Guy Veasey <eagle(at)ntr.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What a shame... |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------2FE0E2DB6E8297B3D7837E88
Louis Willig wrote:
>
> An RV-4 that I have had my eye on for 2 years is up for sale. Nearly
> a year
> ago, the owner died and his wife declined to put the plane up for
> sale
> until last month. The engine is a Factory Reman 0-320 E2D with 30
> hours on
> it. The aircraft has not flown for more than an hour in the last 8
> months
> (maybe not at all). The airframe is a beauty ( well built and well
> painted
> ), but I am in doubt about the engine at this point. It has been
> sitting
> around in a hangar in the Northeast. Do any of you engine "mavens"
> know of
> a good way to check the engine without a tear down? The "10 minutes
> every
> month warm-up" is probably worse than leaving the engine alone. What
> a
> shame! I thank you in advance for any comments or advice.
>
> Louis Willig
--
Guy Veasey, CP-ASMEL-IA
Buying a plane? Free advice at http://www.AirplaneBroker.Com.
--------------2FE0E2DB6E8297B3D7837E88
You are wise to be concerned about the condition of an engine that has only
been run sporadically for two years. The problem is with acid formation in the
oil due to the water condensation that forms with temperature variation. This
acid causes pitting in various engine components. Each short run causes
another temperature swing and does not heat the oil enough to boil off the
water. If you ARE SURE the oil has not been changed, perhaps the PH can be
measured from a sample.
Lycoming has a AD out on pitting in their hollow crankshaft engines with fixed
pitch props. A replacement crankshaft is around $2500 excluding labor. I can
send you a copy of this AD and a bulletin from Lycoming which advocates FLYING
the engine for at least 30 minutes per week. I think this advice is the reason
I was able to reach TBO on my O-320-A2D without a Tannis engine heater.
I don't think Marvel Mystery oil can undo pitting.
You will get all kinds of advice, ranging from "No sweat" to "Avoid
absolutely". I think Lycoming knows best.
Since you did not build the airplane, you are limited to what you can do...
just as with certified aircraft. Your mechanic can remove the prop and pop the
crankshaft plug to inspect the interior of the crankshaft. Maybe a better
choice is to look for another RV-4.
--------------2FE0E2DB6E8297B3D7837E88--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: How to prime lots of pieces at once? |
Thought I would put in my 2 cents about what I do for priming.
I use the primer Wash that Van uses, two to one as they do, and am very
happy with the results.
The last thing I do before priming, is put on the throw away gloves and
wash it all down with MEK. Then it takes me about 90 seconds to mix it
up and put it on the gun. (I use the one from Aircraft Spruce that uses
paper cups). If the parts, usually 5 or 10 at a time, are 6 or more
inches long, I hold one end while spraying the other. Prop them up
somewhere, and do something else for ten minutes, then finish the job (I
can now hold the painted side). Usually I hate the clean up part. But
now its the best part of the whole job. I spray 2 or 3 seconds of MEK
thru the gun, throw the cup in the well ventilated trash, hang up my mask
all in the space of about 25 or 30 seconds, and walk away.
On this gun keep the little platform in front of the spigot cleaned off
or you will get spatters.
Cecil Hatfield
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "r.acker" <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop Extensions |
>I'm not sure I understand this. My prop extension, which I got from Van's,
>uses six short bolts to fasten the extension to the crankshaft and six long
>bolts to fasten the prop to the extension. You're telling me that A-D uses
>the same system as Van's.
>Has Van changed his method of attaching the prop to the extension and now
>uses long bolts that go all the way from the front of the prop, through the
>extension and into the crankshaft flange??
>John
John,
In 1994 Van's standardized on the short cowl (no more fixed or c/s cowl
option). Instead of a 4" extension (spool type with twelve bolts) for fixed
pitch props, a 2 1/2" extension is now used by Van's (with 6 bolts total
going crankshaft forward).
A-D sells a 2.5" 12 bolt type. There, I think I got it right .
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jorear(at)mrnet.com |
| Subject: | Re: Altitude encoder |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: rv-6 rudder pedals |
<< I don't have the Vertical & Rudder installed yet, so I can't really
figure out how
much fore and aft movement will be required by the pedals. >>
Note: The below info pertains to the hanging pedals only. FYI, I am 6'-2"
with a 33" inseam.
If you trig it out, you will find that the pedals (at the cable pull) will
move fore and aft by +/- 2.00" with a rudder movement of +/- 35 degrees (the
design goal). This means that, stop-to-stop, the stirrup (which hangs 1.125"
below the cable pull) will travel about +/- 2.30". If you have the doghouse
(DH) on the firewall, this will limit the forward position of the center
pivot block unless you relocate it. My block is placed such that the
centerline of the front pedal weldment pivot tube is 1.25" aft of DH (the
block fwd end clears DH by .25").
I left one adjustment hole longer and 4 shorter in my cable attach links.
With the forward (right) rudder stirrup at the forward limit there is .750"
clearance from the back of the firewall angles (and the .75" thick firewall
insulation blanket) to the tangent point on the stirrup. If I let it out to
the very last link hole, this clearance would be reduced to about .20". This
is about as far fwd as you can go without getting your two-tones in the
engine compartment.
The more forward the pivot is, the more the stirrups can tilt aft which
angles the brake pedals more forward. This helps keep my big feet off the
brakes.
I also left the original length on the center brace so that if I sold the
plane sometime in the far future, a vertically challenged buyer would have
the option of relocating the pedals aft by as much as 2".
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
Are you supposed to have the registration and n number in order before
you schedule an faa inspection? Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: FAA Inspections |
To all,
I had my inspection done by the FAA. I contacted them by phone and found
them to be very helpfull. They informed me what I needed and what condition
they wanted the airplane in when they arrived. I arranged a time with only 2
weeks notice.
The gentelman who did the inspection was very thurough and very informative.
He gave me a couple of small tasks to do and he was happy. His words of
wisdom were, Nice job, Congradulations, and be carefull.
And dont forget, the best part was the cost.(FREE)
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Moore <bobmoore(at)wwd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What a shame... |
Guy Veasey wrote:
> Since you did not build the airplane, you are limited to what you can do...
> just as with certified aircraft. Your mechanic can remove the prop and pop the
> crankshaft plug to inspect the interior of the crankshaft. Maybe a better
> choice is to look for another RV-4.
Why would he be limited to what he can do? My understanding
is that he simply cannot perform the annual condition inspection.
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FAA inspection |
When the DAR shows up everything needs to be completed as if the airplane was
ready to fly. My DAR would not accept the pink copy of the
registration(temporary), he wanted the permanent one from OKE city. I would
apply for the registration at least 90 days before your planned inspection. I
used Aero-Space reports in Oklahoma City to get a certain N-number. Call them
with a list of your prefferences and they will tell you what is available,
and they will do all the paperwork. Cost about $35.
Regards,
Bill Mahoney
Sherman, CT
RV-6 N747W
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Is there a autopilot available for RV's |
Chris, I don't know where you got the info on Navaid autopilots no longer
being available but I ordered one last week from the factory in
Chattanooga; or did I give my credit card # to an out of business
company? Time will tell.
John Henley( jhenley(at)juno.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: FAA Inspections |
Thanks, Ryan. MCL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich Propeller question |
Ted;
I think you will be limited by the prop, but not to worry. As you read
on the Sens. web page, the limit is prop overspeed. It hasn't stopped me
doing acro., I just keep it in the back of my mind not to overspeed the prop
in rpm, sort of like I keep it in my mind not to overspeed the airplane in
airspeed. It is no different than all of those other things we keep in the
back of our mind when flying, you know, like don't hit the ground going
straight down, don't land upside down etc etc etc.
The worry warts will probably tell you not to do acro with that prop, but
what the hell.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FAA finds several design omissions |
> Am I the only one who has had good experience
>with the FAA?
>
>D Walsh, RV-6A with 2.9 hours. I don't work for Van's , the FAA or any one
>else.
>
No, I 've worked with them twice, once for the original certification and
then a different guy for the prop recert.--had good experience with both of
them. Very nice guys, sort of like me trying to make a living. They were
professional, thorough with out being nit picking, and were nice human
beings. Very contrary to those who told me that all of the FAA guys were
stupid geeks that didn't know their ass from a hole in the ground and were
as obnoxious as any thing they had ever en counted etc etc etc.
Some how, I get the feeling at times that casting bread upon the water
returns you the same kind of bread you throw out. Maybe not always, but
quite often.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)A.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: B&C Starters . . . |
And my $.02 on B&C products:
B&C is one of the few folks that sell an alternator that fits Lycomings
that do not have a boss-mount for the alternator.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 (now N601DB)
installing electrical and avionics
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Flaherty <yogieb(at)pipeline.com> |
Would the gentleman who had an N-Number search done by an
organization in OKC please list the name and pnone number. I deleted mine
before thinking.
Thanks in advance.
Mike Flaherty
s/n 80215
yogieb(at)pipeline.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ROY HARRILL" <KHarrill(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Recently someone mentioned a source for electric gyros at an attractive
price. Please give us the details. Thanks.
Ken Harrill
RV - 6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | info (Matronics Product Information 510-606-1001) |
--------------
> Hey Matt,
> Thanks for your efforts on the list. Three questions:
>1.do you think anybody on the list read the rules-o-the-list? It sure
>would be nice if they did.
>
Well, I think some do. With close to 800 people on the List it would seem
the *somebody* could follow directions...
>
>2.I'd say about 60% of the responses I get are repeated (word for
> word,same message.)once or twice, is it my system? I have MS internet
> explorer.
>
I would suspect that it is at you end. Usually if something like that was
happening to the whole List I'd be getting *a lot* of complaints about it.
Perhaps IE is just downloading the same message from your POP multiple times?
>
>3.Can I put a RV related "for sale" on the list?
>
For sure! I encourage it. Especially personal 'for sale' things. Occasional
commercial promotion is okay too, but I try to throttle that some.
>
>Thanks again for messing with this headache, it will be a bummer when you
>get tired of it and move on.
>Tim Skinner
>
Well, you're welcome. The List is a great resource. I've made a lot of
good friends on the List in the nearly 10 years I've been managing it.
>
>PS are you an ISP? If so send info. Ok, so that was four questions.
>
--------------
Nope, I'm not and ISP. I wish I was; then I wouldn't have had all these
problems of late.
Matt Dralle
RV-List Admin.
--
Product Information | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | info(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com W.W.W. | Specializing in Aircraft Avionics
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: N-number search (Internet Database) |
<<
Would the gentleman who had an N-Number search done by an
organization in OKC please list the name and pnone number. I deleted mine
before thinking.
>>
A basic N-Number search can be done using the AVweb system. It is not real
time with the FAA, but will limit the number of in use numbers you apply for.
Subscribe (no cost) at www.AVweb.com . After signing up you can searh their
databases. They also send out a weekly e-mail on the industry in general.
DkSJC
-4 still almost finished
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Web Search Engines Online! |
The web RV and Zenith List archive search engines are both back online.
Feel free to search for those nuggets of technical information!
Matt Dralle
RV and Zenith List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rimbold(at)apollo.hp.com (Rob Rimbold) |
> Would the gentleman who had an N-Number search done by an organization
> in OKC please list the name and pnone number. I deleted mine before
> thinking.
I wasn't me, but here's a WWW site that'll let you search for yourself.
http://acro.harvard.edu/GA/search_nnr.html
'Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jan <Jan(at)claver.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Folding wings for RV6 ??? |
What about folding wings for the RV6 (or 4) I have been thinking about
this for a long time and would like to know if there are any out there
who are working or thinking about doing this modification.
The high cost of hangars in Europe makes this a very interesting
modification.
--
Jan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: brake problems |
<< I am having a problem with the left side brake. When it applies there is a
loud rubbing sound together with a fairly severe vibration. It happens only
on the left side. The right is fine. >>
Andy:
Are you sure this is a brake problem? I've seen some airframes vibrate with
brake application due to an alignment change that happen at this time.
Of course, you could have a warped rotor. Try laying it on a surface known to
be flat. I don't know if they can be turned- they seem a bit thin for that
procedure.
Does the caliper fit loose enough (or too loose?) in its mount? Is it too
tight? It should be able to slide in& out on its mount.
Hmmmmmm....
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What a shame... |
| From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
> The engine is a Factory Reman 0-320 E2D with 30
>hours on it. The aircraft has not flown for more than an hour in the
last 8
>months (maybe not at all). Do any of you engine "mavens"
>know of a good way to check the engine without a tear down? The "10
minutes
>every month warm-up" is probably worse than leaving the engine alone.
I certainly don't fall into the "maven" category, but having spent a
king's ransom on a new engine for my RV I have done a lot of research on
how to protect my investment.. Without a doubt, one of the worst things
you can do to an aircraft engine is let it sit. The only thing worse
than letting it sit is to "warm it up" from time to time without flying
it and getting the oil temp up above 170 to burn off the moisture and
acids created by combustion. (the highest case temp runs about 40-50
degrees higher than where the temp probe is, thereby applying 212F+ to
the oil)
Ground running the engine, or not flying it long enough to get the
temps up, only compounds the problem by introducing more moisture and
acids into the oil. If you warm the engine up to say 120F, when it cools
back down to evening temperature you introduce a LOT of condensation into
the engine without burning off what was already there.
However, just leaving the engine sit isn't good either, as the oil tends
to run off the critical surfaces like the cam, cylinders, etc. My
understanding is that this is even worse on an engine with only a few
hours since new/overhaul. According to Lycoming, sitting longer than a
week is considered long-term storage. This may be a bit exaggerated, but
considering the cost of an engine, I take it to heart.
In fact, my local airport commission, in it's ultimate wisdom, decided to
tear up all of the taxiways leading to my hangar area at one time. (to
the tune of 6 weeks) I was desperate to not leave my engine sitting for
that length of time and a local builder offered to let me share his
hangar at great personal hassle to himself and his project. (thanks Rob)
Unfortunately, the construction is now infringing on his hangar as well,
and I have to move the airplane another 20 miles away, and pay for 2
hangars to keep from leaving my engine idle. IMHO, a small cost to
prevent any possible problems.
My gut reaction is that the engine is "probably" okay, as a lot of
engines reach TBO even while spending some time idle, but I can't think
of any way to be certain without opening it up and inspecting the cam,
cylinders, etc. I would be VERY leery of buying an engine with that
history. I have, however, been accused of being overly conservative on
occasion...
Ed Bundy RV6A N427EM first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com> |
Could anyone shed some information on the reserved "N" number process?
I sent 5 desired choices in with the $10 fee I understood was required to
reserve a number. After a little over two month I received a "assigned"
number not remotely connected to anything I requested. The letter didn't
mention anything about my requested numbers. Like they aren't available or
something to indicate to me why I lost the toss and please try again.
Has anyone had a simular experience? Does anyone know if that is final or
do I select another 5 and send 10 to them to try again?
Oh yes, I did check the AVweb data bank on numbers in use, so I thought I
would get one of the selected number, just a little more than disappointing.
Tell me this is normal and one of you tried again and won.
Have A Great Day!
Denny Harjehausen, retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com
RV-6/ Fuselage
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Nelson <cgn(at)pond.net> |
| Subject: | RE: countersinking or dimpling .032 skins |
Hi again everybody,
My horizontal stab is framed up and installed in the jig fixture for
alignment. My question is, or
should I should say I need your opinions about dimpling the skins. I
watched Geo. Orndorf's video,
and he countersunk the skins, after drilling of coarse. I would
personally like to dimple die the
skins, as per Van's instructions. What would you do or suggest to
me? Thanks for taking the time
out for you opinions.
P.S. These are >032 skins.
cgn(at)pond.net
Craig G. Nelson
Eugene, OR
building RV-6 empenage
wings on order
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
>
>Could anyone shed some information on the reserved "N" number process?
>Have A Great Day!
>
>Denny Harjehausen, retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com
>RV-6/ Fuselage
>Lebanon, OR
Denny,
I searched via AV-Web for assigned N-numbers and then I searched their
reseved N-number list which I am not sure is still available. I came to the
conclusion that N162NV was not in use and sent them $10 and the request for
that number in a format that was previously printed on the list by Elon or
someone and got the number reserved. I just renewed the resevation by
sending another $10 last week. I'll look in my records and see if I still
have the format. It's really a very simple process, if I knew I could get
$35 for it I might go into business for myself! Al
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | David Clark ENC headset |
| From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS) |
Hi All,
I read the thread on noise canceling headsets, but don't remember seeing
any quantitative comparisons between the different brands available.
The David Clark H10-13X advertises a 23db noise drop with the head set
plus an additional 12 to 17 db noise drop due to their Electronic Noise
Canceling (ENC).
Does anyone have any other manufacturers data that indicates a similar 35
to 40 db noise reduction??
Has anyone done a direct comparison of different headsets in their own
airplane, or the same noise environment??
Jim Ayers
Less_Drag(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RE: countersinking or dimpling .032 skins |
A good rule that you wont regret:
Only countersink when it is too thick to dimple.
Bruce Patton
wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | David Clark ENC headset |
| From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS) |
Hi All,
I read the thread on noise canceling headsets, but don't remember seeing
any quantitative comparisons between the different brands available.
The David Clark H10-13X advertises a 23db noise drop with the head set
plus an additional 12 to 17 db noise drop due to their Electronic Noise
Canceling (ENC).
Does anyone have any other manufacturers data that indicates a similar 35
to 40 db noise reduction??
Has anyone done a direct comparison of different headsets in their own
airplane, or the same noise environment??
Jim Ayers
Less_Drag(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Turn Coordinator Switch (?) |
Am doing my final layout on the Instrument panel. One question.
Should the electric Turn Coordinator have its own off and on switch, or
should it always go on with the Master? I am using fuse blocks, so it can be
turned off by pulling the correct fuse in the Vital power panel.
Bruce Patton
Glider pilot, as you can tell by the queston.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich Propeller question |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic w Stucklen) |
Ted,
I'm using their prop and have done the normal stuff including loops
and rols. It's very easy to overspeed, so you have to whatch the RPM's.
As long as you are aware of the problem, and take corrective action, you
should be OK.....
Fred Studklen RV-6A N925RV
Wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> After checking out the senenich web site, I have a question for all
of
> you who are using the O-320 prop. What's your experience
performing
> aerobatics with this prop? Sensenich recommends against aerobatics
> due to the risk of overspeeding the prop. I'm looking forward to
>
> doing loops & rolls in my RV4 when it's done, and don't want to be
> limited by the propeller. Opinions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ted Boudreaux RV4
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RE: countersinking or dimpling .032 skins |
I feel dimpling is just fine. Be carful when dimpling, always make sure the
male end is the hole before strinking with the hammer (I'm assuming your
using large c-frame dimpling-riveting tool such as Avery sells). Try using a
large rawhide or wood mallet, makes much less noise.
Good luck.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <RNuckolls(at)compuserve.com> |
/ . . . . . . .I think we can comfortably assume that =
/the primary consideration is to be able to switch a circuit =
/with as near to 100% reliability as practically possible.
Why is this a necessary part of a sport airplane
system consideration? Since military specifications
for all things began pouring out of Washington, their
#1 goal has and always will be, to fight a war. In
times of battle, minimize the hassles with the machine
so as to not distract and/or cripple the combatant.
This quest for 100% (or even 99.99%) dribbled over into
aircraft because the major drivers of aircraft requirements
-AND- financers of new designs were military or commercial
transport.
As long as the researchers could tap that very deep well
of taxpayer's pockets, a quest for ultimate device(s) =
was well financed and justifiable under the rules of =
weapons development. =
/That means it opens or closes as many times as necessary under =
/any conditions of flight (altitude, moisture, lightning strike =
/etc etc) and of electrical health (low volts, high volts...) =
/we are likely to find. I would also add 'for the life of the =
/aircraft' but this in itself may be a design consideration =
/alone. We also need a clear indication of the switch status at all =
/times.
Of all single-engine piston airplanes setting on the ramps of =
US airports, what percentage of installed switches have
been subjected to extremes of any of the stresses you mention?
Moisture and temperature cycles just sitting on the ramp between =
flights seems to be the greatest stress. Switch failures I've analyzed
seem to cluster around old airplanes with relatively low
utilization at one end and, of course, airplanes with very
high utilization at the other end. In the first case, switches =
died of old age with realtively few electrical operations =
on them. In the later case, switches simply reached end of =
service life.
/1. Can the switch handle the current? =
/Considerations include: average current, inrush current, =
/current under unfavourable supply or loading conditions, =
/after deterioration of the contact condition or the mechanical =
/latching conditions, during switch on contact bounce, switch =
/off arcing.
/Average current....that bit is easy, in fact it is the only =
/characteristic commonly published for most switches fitting =
/the small toggle bill.
Okay, let's partition off the tasks here. There are very
few loads in airplanes that raise concerns for contact
life due to electrical loading. The obvious ones are
landing lights, pitot heat, and maybe nav lights . . .
Hmmmm . . . we're now down to 6 amps.
/Inrush current .. ahhh .. this is a real demon. Dammed =
/hard to measure, the only way I know is with an HF current =
/probe and an Oscilloscope. Insert any resistance and the =
/measured value can be decimated. Another factor is that =
/the inrush magnitude is a function of the supply impedance. =
/An interesting exercise would be to calculate the supply =
/impedance summing (algebraically as necessary) wire =
/resistance, battery int imp, alternator, fuse/cb etc =
/and measure the cold resistance of a typical incandescent =
/bulb/s for say the nav lights or landing lights. =
/I would be interested n the result but my guess is that =
/it would be way above the 5x normally quoted.
Actually, not true. 10x is easily hypothesized by measuring
lamp cold resistance but airplane wiring rapidly drops the
multiplier . . . 5 times the running value is right in the
ballpark on most light planes.
/One trap here is the common practice of using a bench =
/supply for testing. A bench supply usually exhibits =
/significant current limiting, either by design or =
/accident. An installation testing OK on the bench, =
/but when a well charged battery and alternator is put =
/behind it, the transient behaviour can be quite different.
I've found that the alternator doesn't contribute much to
the equation. It's dynamic impedance is pretty high and
even fully loaded, it's good for 50-100 amps. Modern
RG or NiCad batteries can support inrush transients
to 1000 amps or more; but not when driving a load from
the far end of a piece of wire. Loads that toggle switches
are expected to control in light airplanes are just not
very nasty.
/Additionally, modern electronics often has a varistor =
/capacitor input circuit. The varistor has only marginal =
/impact on the charge current. I myself have had to resort =
/to a soft start circuit with a 140Volt DC (rectified mains) =
/supply into a 2200uF filter capacitor in an application =
/where the switch contacts welded after the first closure.
But that's a whole different ball game. AC mains at the
ordinary wall socket can be charaterized with potential
fault currents in the hundreds of amps behind a 117 VAC
push . . . very hot arcs compared to tens of amps pushed
by 14 volts . . . this just isn't an apples for apples
comparison. The heat generated at during closure-bounce
in your example is at least an order of magnitude greater
if not two magnitudes.
/2. ...under unfavourable loading conditions - stalled =
/motor etc hopefully the fuse/cct breaker will protect =
/this. But a stiff bearing might cause a 100% variation =
/in the continuous load current.
But name me one motor in a light aircraft application
that has any chance of pushing very hard on a switch?
Flaps? Okay, let's assume 5 amps (Big flap motor) fused
at 7 amps. Inrush to this motor could be less than that
of a 10 amp landing light system. A 100% increase in =
continuous load due to bearing failure (5 amps
x 15 volts is 70 watts . . . going into two bearings?
They are going to warm them up VERY quick with mucho whining
and complaining).
/I'll bet you have had to change a number of switches =
/because the mechanism has failed due 'no apparent =
/reason'. I'll wager it was heat related.
Actually, most of the failures I've seen are environmental
whether the faiure exhibits itself mechanically or =
electrically. Oddly enough, not 1 hour ago my wife
and I landed after observing some fantastic cloud
structures and a beautiful sunset over the Kansas
wheatfields. As we were rolling up to the hangar,
I turned on the dome light in the C-150 we were using
and the light didn't come on! I wiggled the switch
a bit and the light could be made to flash. These are
the little 69-cent rockers I've been talking about.
You'd think that the landing light switch would be
the first to go after 30+ years . . . but no, it =
was the switch that controlled a single, .08 amp =
lamp on the ceiling! Corroded internal contacts =
no doubt.
/ Arcing... DC/AC etc etc can only lead to a degradation =
/ in the contact condition. Another book on this topic, but =
/ lets leave it for now.
The #1 switch problem in single engine Cessnas
is degredation of the alternator side of the
battery master switch. This switch carries 3 amps
MAX but it is a slightly inductive load. With
months to years of little blue flames along
with dust and moisture, contact resistance
goes up. The result is a voltage regulator that
goes nuts trying to figure out what the REAL =
bus voltage. Nobody suspects switch "failure"
because it's still turning things on and of and
it feels okay . . . but the voltage regulator
can't abide an additional 100 milliohms of
resistance in the voltage control loop. Thousands
of Cessna owners have suffered thousands of dollars
in expense to replace regulators, ov relays and =
alternators without fixing a jumpy bus voltage.
Replacing the $17 switch fixed it.
/So tell me, how can anyone know the real characteristics =
/of a toggle switch for which the average rated current is =
/the only published data?
Easy, don't worry about it. The circumstances where you might
begin to push a switch to limits simply don't exist in
contemporary light plane designs and that's the way it
SHOULD be. An RV pilot isn't going to risk dying because
his AmRam missiles would't arm due to a single switch failure!
/I agree that if a switch is used within it's design limitations =
/it will work almost for ever, and I'll also bet the Cessna's =
/electrical designer / switch supplier put a lot of effort into =
/the design. The switches may look the same as others but what =
/are the real specs.
I was there when the rockers were installed in the Cessnas,
they are catalog-item commercial switches. We did run some
silly little cycle-life tests that the manufacturer had already
done and documented but our DER wanted us to test SOMETHING.
Heaven forbid that we didn't have some document on hand thirty
years later to show that we "tested" the things. The total
effort required to bring those switches on board was less =
than 200 person-hours on the part of engineering, drafting, =
experimental and service parts cataloging COMBINED. People have =
been trained (fooled?) into thinking that a great deal of =
analysis goes into EVERY certified airplane part . . . it simply =
isn't so.
/In my eyes, the mil spec lever switch of guaranteed quality =
/looks real pretty. The cute plastic jobs do not.
Not a thing wrong with these switches. But why spend $25
for a switch to operate a $20 landing light bulb that you
KNOW is going to fail? At some point in time you'll
find yourself landing in the dark no matter how good
your switch is. Okay, how about dual landing lights?
Great . . . now you've got redundant switches too. Again,
why spend extra $ to feel good about the switches when
you can replace it in a few minutes without even dragging
you tie on the floorboards?
/Also, WRT solid state switches, one strike (lightning) and =
/they may be 15% damaged, or perhaps 50%, or if you're real =
/lucky 100% kaput.
I don't know of anyone offering "solid state" switches
as a replacement for ordinary toggle functions. Solid
state relays (opto-couple/triac/a.c.) devices abound and
DC ones are just around the corner with the advent of
low Rds(on) FETs and photo-voltaic opto couplers. But
you only need two or maybe three of these (landing lights =
and pitot heat, nav lights) . . . and then only because =
you want to control your airpalne with little minature toggles.
=
All the things you mention are of intense interest
to some people, just not light airplane builders. They
should be designing for failure tolerant systems that
feature low-cost, easy to replace components with
reasonable service life . . and each builder will have
to come up with his own definition of "reasonable."
Here in the US, the average utilization of a light airplane
is under 100 hours per year with less than 10 hours
of night flight. This means that most switches regularly
see less than 200 cycles per year (landing lights a dozen
or so). Most switches die of old age than from any
degree of electrical stress or utilization. The
war machine/air transport requirements are worlds apart
from sport-lightplane requirements. None-the-less, the
word "aircraft" conjures up images of those same machines
and their requirements when you go out to buy parts.
There's nothing 'wrong' with buying the best you can
afford . . . by all means, buy a Lexus if you really
want one and can afford it.
I counsel my builders that there's no reason to consider
a Chevrolet budget airplane to be less safe because
the switches or any other parts were purchased out =
of the Allied Electronics catalog . . . design so that =
you don't DEPEND on any single item for comfortable =
completion of flight.
Regards,
Bob . . . =
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DoOOo=3D(_)=3DoOOo=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
72770.552ompuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com=
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What a shame... |
<3386D43B.2881(at)wwd.net>
| From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS) |
writes:
>
>> Since you did not build the airplane, you are limited to what you
>>can do... just as with certified aircraft. Your mechanic can remove
the prop
>>and pop the crankshaft plug to inspect the interior of the crankshaft.
Maybe a
>>better choice is to look for another RV-4.
>
>Why would he be limited to what he can do? My understanding
>is that he simply cannot perform the annual condition inspection.
>
Hi All,
Annual Inspection?? There's no stinking Annual Inspection on a
homebuilt. (Said in the tone of - No Stinking Badges.)
There is, however, a requirement for a 12 month condition inspection
written into the airworthiness certificate.
Other than normal preventative maintenance, an I.A., A&P, and/or Aircraft
Repairmen Certificate is required.
Jim Ayers
Less_Drag(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What a shame... |
<3386D43B.2881(at)wwd.net>
| From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS) |
writes:
>
>> Since you did not build the airplane, you are limited to what you
>>can do... just as with certified aircraft. Your mechanic can remove
the prop
>>and pop the crankshaft plug to inspect the interior of the crankshaft.
Maybe a
>>better choice is to look for another RV-4.
>
>Why would he be limited to what he can do? My understanding
>is that he simply cannot perform the annual condition inspection.
>
Hi All,
Annual Inspection?? There's no stinking Annual Inspection on a
homebuilt. (Said in the tone of - No Stinking Badges.)
There is, however, a requirement for a 12 month condition inspection
written into the airworthiness certificate.
Other than normal preventative maintenance, an I.A., A&P, and/or Aircraft
Repairmen Certificate is required.
Jim Ayers
Less_Drag(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Forrest <gforrest(at)nwc.net> |
Denny
Our soaring club requested a specific N-number for a new sailpane about 18
months ago. I do not remember the details. However, we checked the lists
on the web that have been posted here and then talked to someone in OK. The
person we talked to was very helpful and checked the current list of
numbers for us. The web database is normally quite outdated. We ended up
with number we requested. I am sorry I do not have all the details but I
will try to find out more specifics and let you know.
Jerry Forrest
gforrest(at)nwc.net
RV6/empennage
Los Angeles
>Could anyone shed some information on the reserved "N" number process?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: countersinking or dimpling .032 skins |
>I watched Geo. Orndorf's video,
>and he countersunk the skins, after drilling of coarse. I would
>personally like to dimple die the skins, as per Van's instructions. What
would you do or suggest to me? Thanks for taking the time
>Craig G. Nelson
Craig,
I would recommend dimpling whenever possible. You might search the
archives for more input. I feel that dimpled structures are a little
stronger in shear becasue of the nesting of a dimple in a dimple. It's
easier to get uniform results (for me) dimpling as opposed to machine
countersinking. Different pressures on the machine countersink, chips and
the "rivet gods" can conspire to make the depth of the countersink slightly
different from hole to hole. If it's not deep enough, you have to hit it
again. If the countersink is too deep, you will not get the proper "set" on
the rivet. When machine countersinking or using AD470 rivets (round head),
you'll find that a lot of times you will have to insert a scribe or awl in
the holes to line them up so that you can insert the rivet. A dimpled
structure is self-aligning and the rivets are easily inserted.
Also, there was some discussion awhile back about smoking rivets on the
belly skins of RV-6's. I believe the consensess was that this was more
prevelant on machine countersunk structures. (I think they recommend
dimpled #4 rivets in this area, now).
On your H.S., you may have some places that you need to machine
countersink. I'm thinking of the trailing edge aof the H.S. in the areas of
the rear spar flange strips. You may not have room to dimple the spar so
you have a choice of machine countersinking the spar to accept the dimpled
skin or machine countersinking the .032" skin. I machine countersunk the
skin in this area on the RV-6 I'm flying now and used a combination of
methods on my 2nd project.
Bob Skinner RV-6 350 hours BSkinner(at)navix.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
Denny,
Try a call to 405-954-3116 (FAA Registry Branch) to confirm a number
is available after you have checked on the web. They will usually check
two or three numbers before they get tired of talking to you ...:^)
... hope this helps ... Gil (still one-handed) Alexander
RV6A, #20701, N64GA (rsvd) ... on hold while broken right elbow heals ..:^(
>
>Could anyone shed some information on the reserved "N" number process?
>
>I sent 5 desired choices in with the $10 fee I understood was required to
>reserve a number. After a little over two month I received a "assigned"
>number not remotely connected to anything I requested. The letter didn't
>mention anything about my requested numbers. Like they aren't available or
>something to indicate to me why I lost the toss and please try again.
>
>Has anyone had a simular experience? Does anyone know if that is final or
>do I select another 5 and send 10 to them to try again?
>
>Oh yes, I did check the AVweb data bank on numbers in use, so I thought I
>would get one of the selected number, just a little more than disappointing.
>
>Tell me this is normal and one of you tried again and won.
>
>Have A Great Day!
>
>Denny Harjehausen, retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com
>RV-6/ Fuselage
>Lebanon, OR
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RodWoodard <rodwoodard(at)mcione.com> |
| Subject: | Jon Johanson's "N" Number |
Hello folks:
A day or two ago someone asked about the small size of Jon Johanson's
registration number and how he was able to fly around the world with it. A
friend of mine is helping Jon with his book and is in contact with Jon on a
regular basis. I forwarded the rv-list question to my friend. What follows
is a "cut & paste" of Jon's answer:
>>As far as me flying around the world with less than 12" numbers goes, I
guess
the answer is simply that NOJ is an Australian aircraft. The minimum size
here
is 150mm on the fuselage, and 500mm under the wing. If there is a
requirement
for international flight different to that I do not know about it and never
had any comments where ever I flew. I hope that answers the question.<<
Incidentally, it looks like Jon will be at Oshkosh again this year (by
commercial airliner, not RV). He's hoping to have his book completed by
then and has made arrangements with the EAA folks to do a book signing at
OSH.
Rod Woodard
Loveland, Colorado
RV-8, #80033
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Denny Harjehausen wrote:
>
>
> Could anyone shed some information on the reserved "N" number process?
>
> I sent 5 desired choices in with the $10 fee I understood was required to
> reserve a number. After a little over two month I received a "assigned"
> number not remotely connected to anything I requested. The letter didn't
> mention anything about my requested numbers. Like they aren't available or
> something to indicate to me why I lost the toss and please try again.
>
> Has anyone had a simular experience? Does anyone know if that is final or
> do I select another 5 and send 10 to them to try again?
>
> Oh yes, I did check the AVweb data bank on numbers in use, so I thought I
> would get one of the selected number, just a little more than disappointing.
>
> Tell me this is normal and one of you tried again and won.
>
>
>
> Have A Great Day!
>
> Denny Harjehausen, retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com
> RV-6/ Fuselage
> Lebanon, OR
I have found that the Landings WWW is often more up to date than
AV_WEB <http://www.landings.com> The data on N numbers is
supposed to be up to date as of April 1, 1997.
Once going to Landings click on the search button in the banner
and look for reserved N numbers.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< Could anyone shed some information on the reserved "N" number process? >>
Why don't you call the FAA at 405-954-4206 and talk to a person that can help
you. This number is from the RV Builders' Yeller Pages located at
http://www.sound.net/~hartmann/yelrpage.htm
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <tvelvick(at)caljet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: countersinking or dimpling .032 skins |
22>
In his new RV-8 empannage video George dimpled the skins with the Avery C
tool.
Regards,
Tom Velvick
rv6a- HS being skinned
>watched Geo. Orndorf's video,
>and he countersunk the skins, after drilling of coarse. I would
>personally like to dimple die the
>skins, as per Van's instructions. What would you do or suggest to
>me? Thanks for taking the time
>out for you opinions.
>P.S. These are >032 skins.
>cgn(at)pond.net
>Craig G. Nelson
>Eugene, OR
>building RV-6 empenage
>wings on order
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Folding wings for RV6 ??? |
z>
>What about folding wings for the RV6 (or 4) I have been thinking about
>this for a long time and would like to know if there are any out there
>who are working or thinking about doing this modification.
I'm working on the wings; I'd say that folding wings would be a *major*
engineering project.
I believe that the Midget Mustang and/or Mustang II have folding wings.
Frank.
PS: Apologies to List members for using the M-word on the list.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
Hi guys,
I've browsed the archives; there's lots of comment on whether or not to
install a flop tube. However, I couldn't find any comment from anyone
actually flying with one in an RV. Can someone flying with one comment on
whether it was worth installing?
Secondly, any thoughts about a capacitance sender in conjunction with a
flop tube... Can the capacitance sender go all the way to the bottom of the
tank (ie into the inboard-most bay)?
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sharlene Shipley or Bruce Knoll <snsbfk(at)mail.sage.net> |
>
>Could anyone shed some information on the reserved "N" number process?
>
>I sent 5 desired choices in with the $10 fee I understood was required to
>reserve a number. After a little over two month I received a "assigned"
>number not remotely connected to anything I requested. The letter didn't
>mention anything about my requested numbers. Like they aren't available or
>something to indicate to me why I lost the toss and please try again.
>
>Has anyone had a simular experience? Does anyone know if that is final or
>do I select another 5 and send 10 to them to try again?
>
>Oh yes, I did check the AVweb data bank on numbers in use, so I thought I
>would get one of the selected number, just a little more than disappointing.
>
>Tell me this is normal and one of you tried again and won.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Have A Great Day!
>
>Denny Harjehausen, retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com
>RV-6/ Fuselage
>Lebanon, OR
>
>I would invest in a phone call to the Office in question and find out the
answer to their neglect of you . You are a taxpayer, and by the time you
get your bird done will probablly be paying user fees to the Gov. (faa).
Keep the list posted.
B. Knoll snsbfk(at)mail.sage.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: N-number search |
Aero-Space Reports in OKC will handle all the details including reserving
your N-number. Call them at 405-722-1030.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What a shame... |
> Other than normal preventative maintenance, an I.A., A&P, and/or Aircraft
> Repairmen Certificate is required.
I believe that's incorrect.
The FAA lists the requirement for A&P maintenance in FAR 43.3, but
43.1(b) says "This part does not apply to any aircraft for which an
experimental airworthiness certificate has been isssued..."
For more info see "Rules and Regulations of Airplane Building" on
page 90 of the May 97 issue of Sport Aviation. From page 92, "Normal
maintenance on an experimental airplane can be performed virtually by
anone regardless of credentials..."
(all spelling errors are mine)
Tim Lewis
Finishing Canopy Fiberglass
---------------------
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or
timrv6a(at)iname.com
-----------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Folding wings for RV6 ??? |
Jan,
There is a fellow here in Brookfield, CT USA who designed and is building a
SIX with folding wings. I talked with the DAR who is overseeing the project
and He seemed impressed with the design and construction of the modification.
The wing folds at the middle of the fuel tanks, therefore he uses an inboard
and outboard tank on each wing, and has lost some fuel capacity. Seems like
way to much work and additional weight, for an airplane that still will have
a horizontal stabilizer span of 9 feet.
I don't believe he is on the RV list, His name is Peter Gagne Tel.
203-775-9327, I,m sure he would like to talk about the modification.
Regards,
Bill Mahoney
Sherman, CT
RV-6 N747W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <RNuckolls(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Switch on Turn Coordinator? |
Kitfox List
/Am doing my final layout on the Instrument panel.
/One question. Should the electric Turn Coordinator =
/have its own off and on switch, or should it always =
/go on with the Master? =
Never seen a reason to turn it off. The T/C is
sort of like audio amplifiers, Hobbs meters,
engine instruments, etc. They should be on ANY
time the system is powered up . . .
/I am using fuse blocks, so it can be turned off by =
/pulling the correct fuse in the Vital power panel.
Arrrgghhhh! you're going to fiddle with fuses
in flight!!!!! . . . . I gotta go get a asprin! =
Regards,
Bob . . . =
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DoOOo=3D(_)=3DoOOo=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | RE: countersinking or dimpling .032 skins |
Dimple!
Les
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Craig Nelson
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 1997 7:04 PM
Subject: RV-List: RE: countersinking or dimpling .032 skins
Hi again everybody,
My horizontal stab is framed up and installed in the jig fixture for
alignment. My question is, or
should I should say I need your opinions about dimpling the skins. I
watched Geo. Orndorf's video,
and he countersunk the skins, after drilling of coarse. I would
personally like to dimple die the
skins, as per Van's instructions. What would you do or suggest to
me? Thanks for taking the time
out for you opinions.
P.S. These are >032 skins.
cgn(at)pond.net
Craig G. Nelson
Eugene, OR
building RV-6 empenage
wings on order
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Inverted fuel |
Frank,
I installed a flop tube in the left tank on my 4. It works fine. I cant say
its an advantage or disadvantage it depends on what type flying you intend to
do. If you think you might need one now is the time to put it in not later. I
do simple rolls, and loops and have never really been in a negative G
situation. In other words for my type flying its not really needed. If you
plan on hanging from your harnesses you might consider it a must. If your not
planning setting up the airplane for fully inverted flight its not needed.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Moore <bobmoore(at)wwd.net> |
| Subject: | Experimental Maintenence |
> > Other than normal preventative maintenance, an I.A., A&P, and/or Aircraft
> > Repairmen Certificate is required.
> Tim Lewis wrote:
> I believe that's incorrect.
> The FAA lists the requirement for A&P maintenance in FAR 43.3, but
> 43.1(b) says "This part does not apply to any aircraft for which an
> experimental airworthiness certificate has been isssued..."
>
> For more info see "Rules and Regulations of Airplane Building" on
> page 90 of the May 97 issue of Sport Aviation. From page 92, "Normal
> maintenance on an experimental airplane can be performed virtually by
> anyone regardless of credentials..."
Thanks Tim ;-)
I've a copy of FAR 43 too!
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Hughes" <hawk(at)digisys.net> |
| Subject: | Elevator Rigging |
While poking around an Avid Magnum under construction (what can I say,
it was raining and I was bored), I noticed that the trailing edge of
the right elevator is purposely rigged 1/2" higher than the left,
presumably to minimize "dead band" effects related to stabilizer
masking.
I would be interested in hearing the opinions of some
aerodynamically-gifted Listers as to the applicability of this design
element to RVs. (At first glance I would have assumed that if the
engine rotates CW seen from behind, like Lycomings, that it might be
better to droop the right in relation to the left, to act in a fashion
similar to left fin offset to reduce prop circular slipstream effects).
Regards, Hawkeye RV-3 0.026 % complete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | emcole <emcole(at)concentric.net> |
Denny Harjehausen wrote:
>
>
> Could anyone shed some information on the reserved "N" number process?
>
> I sent 5 desired choices in with the $10 fee I understood was required to
> reserve a number. After a little over two month I received a "assigned"
> number not remotely connected to anything I requested. The letter didn't
> mention anything about my requested numbers. Like they aren't available or
> something to indicate to me why I lost the toss and please try again.
>
> Has anyone had a simular experience? Does anyone know if that is final or
> do I select another 5 and send 10 to them to try again?
>
> Oh yes, I did check the AVweb data bank on numbers in use, so I thought I
> would get one of the selected number, just a little more than disappointing.
>
> Tell me this is normal and one of you tried again and won.
>
>
>
> Have A Great Day!
>
> Denny Harjehausen, retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com
> RV-6/ Fuselage
> Lebanon, OR
Denny,
Sorry to tell you this, but I did the same as you and got my first
choice! You could always not renew it next year and request another. Or
petition for a number change>
Ed Cole
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What a shame... |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic w Stucklen) |
Tim & Listers:
But isn't it also true that "normal maintenance" can be performed
on ALL certified aircraft, including experimental. It still takes an IA
OR
a person with a repairmans certificate to sign-off the annual inspection
process of the experimental class aircraft.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
>I believe that's incorrect.
>
>The FAA lists the requirement for A&P maintenance in FAR 43.3, but
>43.1(b) says "This part does not apply to any aircraft for which an
>experimental airworthiness certificate has been isssued..."
>
>For more info see "Rules and Regulations of Airplane Building" on
>page 90 of the May 97 issue of Sport Aviation. From page 92, "Normal
>maintenance on an experimental airplane can be performed virtually by
>anone regardless of credentials..."
>
>(all spelling errors are mine)
>
>Tim Lewis
>Finishing Canopy Fiberglass
>---------------------
>Tim Lewis
>RV-6AQ #60023
>San Antonio TX
>timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or
>timrv6a(at)iname.com
>-----------------------
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi,
Can someone tell me how thick a backpack type parachute is? I am sure
there are many different brands with many different thicknesses. I am
just looking for a ballpark idea of how thick they are.
Thanks
Glenn Gordon
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Boris <smbr(at)digital.net> |
| Subject: | wrong rv-4 cowl? |
Dear Listers,
A friend dropped by with his cowl from an older mostly finished rv-4 kit
he had just bought. His cowl was several inches longer than mine. Also,
the air inlets were sloped at a higher angle.
My cowl measures approx. 37 & 3/8 inches from the back to front lip,
measured along the center of the top cowl.
I ordered a constant speed cowl, package list says I got one, and am
concerned. If someone with an rv-4 kit could measure theirs and report
back, I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks in advance,
Boris Robinson
Starting fuselage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BigCfly001(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: brake problems |
Andy,
A dial indicator with a magnetic base is the most accurate way to tell
if your rotors are warped. Place the mag. base on a solid surface then put
the rod of the indicator on the face of the rotor, depress the rod untill the
indicator needle turns about half a reveloution,turn the bezel to "0" and
spin the rotor.This will show you any "peaks or valleys."There should also be
a tollerance for that type of rotor[i'm not sure where you'd find it though]
Any reading outside this tollerance would indicate a problem.Hope this helps.
chris marion
RV-6 building HS
cincy OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What a shame... |
> But isn't it also true that "normal maintenance" can be performed
> on ALL certified aircraft, including experimental. It still takes an IA
> OR
> a person with a repairman's certificate to sign-off the annual inspection
> process of the experimental class aircraft.
I believe it is not true that "normal maintenance" can be performed
by a pilot on all certified aircraft. I think only PREVENTIVE
maintenance (explicitly described in the FAR) can be performed by
the non-A&P pilot of a normally certified (vs experimental) airplane:
>From FAR 43.3 (1994 version): "The holder of a pilot certificate
issued under Part 61 may perform PREVENTIVE maintenance on any
aircraft owned or operated by that pilot...The items of preventive
maintenance authorized by this section are those listed in paragraph
(c) of Appendix A of this part..."
It's my understanding that just about anybody with a pulse can work
on an experimental aircraft (whether that person built it or not).
As Fred pointed out, one must have an A&P (or a Repairman's
Certificate for THAT PARTICULAR AIRCRAFT) to do the annual condition
inspection on an experimental aircraft.
This is all covered in exhaustive detail in the May 97 issue of
Sport Aviation, pages 90-94. A first rate article, IMO.
Everything smells like fiberglass around here. It's not THAT bad to
work with, just slow and goopy. I made the canopy-to-aft-fuselage
fairing out of fiberglass. It came out pretty well. I made a
home-brew version of the canopy air seal mentioned in the Aug 96
RVator. The fiberglass fairing seals to it very nice.
---------------------
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or
timrv6a(at)iname.com
-----------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jorear(at)mrnet.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RodWoodard <rodwoodard(at)mcione.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Switch on Turn Coordinator? |
----------
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <compuserve.com!RNuckolls(at)matronics.com>
Kitfox List
Subject: RV-List: Switch on Turn Coordinator?
Date: Sunday, May 25, 1997 8:39 AM
RV-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>>Never seen a reason to turn it off. The T/C is
sort of like audio amplifiers, Hobbs meters,
engine instruments, etc. They should be on ANY
time the system is powered up . . .<<<
>From someone who's recently re-joined the >renting< public, I can say that
I don't like the idea of the Hobbs meter coming on with the master
switch!!! :-)
Rod Woodard
Loveland, Colorado
Rv-8, #80033
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Moore <bobmoore(at)wwd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What a shame... |
Frederic w Stucklen wrote:
> But isn't it also true that "normal maintenance" can be performed
> on ALL certified aircraft, including experimental. It still takes an IA
> OR a person with a repairmans certificate to sign-off the annual
> inspection process of the experimental class aircraft.
NO! Preventive maintenence only, and only by the owner/operator PILOT
for
non-experimental aircraft.
It only requires an A&P, not IA to sign-off the (annual, yearly, 12
month
take your pick) condition inspection for an experimental.
43.3 Persons authorized to perform maintenance, preventive maintenance,
rebuilding, and alterations.
(g) The holder of a pilot certificate issued under Part 61 may perform
preventive maintenance on any aircraft owned or operated by that pilot
which is not used under Part 121, 127, 129, or 135.
AC 20-106 - AIRCRAFT INSPECTION FOR THE GENERAL AVIATION AIRCRAFT OWNER
Section 2. PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE
PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE means simple preservation and the replacement
of small standard parts not involving complex assemblies. It is
corrective action taken before it becomes necessary to make more complex
repairs. The following preventive maintenance may be accomplished by a
certificated pilot, who is the owner or operator of an aircraft, not
used in air carrier service.
This list comes from FAR 43, Appendix A, Major Alterations, Major
Repairs, and Preventive Maintenance, paragraph (c). It reads as follows:
"(c) PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE. Work of the following type is
preventive maintenance:
(1) Removal, installation, and repair of landing gear tires.
(2) Replacing elastic shock absorber cords on landing gear.
(3) Servicing landing gear shock struts by adding oil, air, or
both.
(4) Servicing landing gear wheel bearings, such as cleaning and
greasing.
(5) Replacing defective safety wiring or cotter keys.
(6) Lubrication not requiring disassembly other than removal of
nonstructural items such as cover plates, cowlings, and fairings.
(7) Making simple fabric patches not requiring rib stitching or
the removal of structural parts or control surfaces.
(8) Replenishing hydraulic fluid in the hydraulic reservoir.
(9) Refinishing decorative coating of fuselage, wings, tail group
surfaces (excluding balanced control surfaces), fairings, cowling,
landing gear, cabin, or cockpit interior when removal or disassembly of
any primary structure or operating system is not required.
(10) Applying preservative or protective material to components
where no disassembly of any primary structure or operating system is
involved and where such coating is not prohibited or is not contrary to
good practices.
(11) Repairing upholstery and decorative furnishings of the cabin
or cockpit interior when the repairing does not require disassembly of
any primary structure or operating system or interfere with an operating
system or affect primary structure of the aircraft.
(12) Making small simple repairs to fairings, nonstructural cover
plates, cowlings, and small patches and reinforcements not changing the
contour so as to interfere with proper airflow.
(13) Replacing side windows where that work does not interfere
with the structure or any operating system such as controls, electrical
equipment, etc.
(14) Replacing safety belts.
(15) Replacing seats or seat parts with replacement parts approved
for the aircraft, not involving disassembly of any primary structure or
operating system.
(16) Troubleshooting and repairing broken circuits in landing
light wiring circuits.
(17) Replacing bulbs, reflectors, and lenses of position and
landing lights.
(18) Replacing wheels and skis where no weight and balance
computation is involved.
(19) Replacing any cowling not requiring removal of the propeller
or disconnection of flight controls.
(20) Replacing or cleaning spark plugs and setting of spark plug
gap clearance.
(21) Replacing any hose connection except hydraulic connections.
(22) Replacing prefabricated fuel lines.
(23) Cleaning fuel and oil strainers.
(24) Replacing batteries and checking fluid level and specific
gravity.
(25) Removing and installing glider wings and tail surfaces that
are specifically designed for quick removal and installation and when
such removal and installation can be accomplished by the pilot."
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: wrong rv-4 cowl? |
>--------------
>
>Dear Listers,
>
>A friend dropped by with his cowl from an older mostly finished rv-4 kit
>he had just bought. His cowl was several inches longer than mine. Also,
>the air inlets were sloped at a higher angle.
>
>My cowl measures approx. 37 & 3/8 inches from the back to front lip,
>measured along the center of the top cowl.
>
>I ordered a constant speed cowl, package list says I got one, and am
>concerned. If someone with an rv-4 kit could measure theirs and report
>back, I would greatly appreciate it.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Boris Robinson
>Starting fuselage.
>--------------
I have circa 1988 RV-4 Cowl and it measures just over 39 inches. I also
have a newer, "0360" version that measures 39 inches as well. Good thing,
too since I have the 4" extension... Wew.
Matt Dralle
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: What a shame... |
Tim,
I to read that article and agree with all but the last part. He states that
AD's do not apply to experimental aircraft unless that aircraft is specificly
called out.
I wasnt able to find anything in the FAR's but I did find an advisory
circular AC39-7C Par 8 it states aplicability of AD's
Each AD contains an applicability statement specifying the product
(aircraft,aircraft engine, propeller, or appliance) to which it applies. Some
aircraft owners and operators mistakenly assume that AD's do not apply to
aircraft with other than standard airworthiness certificates, ie,. special
airworthiness certificates in the restriced, limited, or experimental
category. UNLESS SPECIFICALLY STATED. AD'S APPLY TO THE MAKE AND MODEL SET
FORTH IN THE APPLICABLITY STATEMENT REGARDLESS OF THE CLASSIFICATION OR
CATEGORY OF THE AIRWORTHINESS CERTIFICATE ISSUED FOR THE AIRCRAFT.
Type certificate and airworthiness certification information are used to
identify the product affected. Limitations may be placed on applicability by
specifying the serial number or number series to which the AD applicable.
When there is no reference to serial numbers, all serial numbers are
affected.
Subpart E goes on further to say
Every AD applies to each product identified in the applicablity statement,
regardless of whether it has been modified, altered, or repaired in the area
subject to the requirements of the AD. For products that have been modified ,
altered , or repaired so that the performance of the requirements of the AD
is affected, the owner/operator must use the authority provided in the
alternative methods of compiance provision of the AD. In no case , does the
the presence of any alteration, modification, or repair remove any product
from the aplicability of an AD. Performance of the requirements of the AD is
"affected" if an operator is unable to perform those requirements in the
manner described in the AD. In short, either the requirements of the AD can
be performed as specified in the AD and the specified results can be
achieved, or they cannot.
Par 9
AD COMPLIANCE.
AD's are regulations issued under part 39. Therefore, no person may operate a
product to which an AD applies, except in accordance with the requirements of
that AD.
Some will argue that Advisory Circulars are not binding documents, I for one
will assume they are and maintain my airplane accordingly. I have questioned
the FAA on this before and never really got a straight answer. Be carefull
about what you read and hear from others. Its not always accurate.
Ryan RV4131RB(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Web Search Broken, no Fixed, no Broken... |
Regarding "http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/search.html" &
"http://www.matronics.com/z-list/search.html"
Sheeze, when will this ever end? Yes, the Web Archive Search engines were
broken, then yesterday they were fixed for a while, then they were broken
again and try to find out what's going on. The problem seems to be related
to CGI scripts.
If these continual outages bug you as much as me, you might want to send
a complaint email message to "support(at)slip.net" and "ted(at)slip.net" and
indicate your displeasure. Be sure to mention the above URLs as well as
the "matronics.com" domain. Maybe if the >1000 people on the RV and Zenith
email lists all send a complaint email message, Slipnet will finally take
my account seriously...
Thank's for your patience...
Matt Dralle
RV and Zenith List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Web Search Fixed - Really! |
Okay, the Web Search Engines are finally *really* fixed - I hope. I just
got off the phone with Slipnet's Tech Support. I described my problem with
the CGI search engines. He said, "Oh, didn't you receive a notice on the
changes to CGI scripting?" Well, no...
Anyway, the bottom line is that they made some changes to the web server,
specifically to the way CGI scripts are run. Based on the document the
support guy emailed me, I made the necessary changes to the search CGI
scripts and now everything seems to be working again!
Everybody might want to hold off lambasting Slipnet's tech support email
address since things are working now. Although, it still doesn't change the
fact that they keep making these rather significant changes to the system -
or just plain breaking things (reference last week's email forwarding MX
record fiasco) - and not informing the customers.
...and now back to our regularly scheduled discussions...
Matt Dralle
RV and Zenith List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <RNuckolls(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Switch on Turn Coordinator? |
/From someone who's recently re-joined the >renting< public, =
/I can say that I don't like the idea of the Hobbs meter =
/coming on with the master switch!!! :-)
On all of the rentals I fly, the Hobbs is wired directly
to the hot side of the battery contactor via an oil pressure
switch so that meter will run even if the battery master is
off as long as oil pressure is up. I think you'll find this
true for most certified ships. If indeed the Hobbs runs
without the engine running, I'd raise a fuss about it.
Most hour meters have some sort of indicator on the front
that wiggles or spins to show that the meter is energized
and running up your bill.
I like to have my builders use a similar circuit except we'll
use a single pole DOUBLE throw oil pressure switch. With the
common terminal of the switch grounded, the normally open
terminal powers up the Hobbs from the battery while the normally
closed terminal powers a "master switch still on you dummy" buzzer
powered from the essential bus . . . if your car can yell at you
with anoying little dings and dongs, you might as well have them
in your airplane too . . . never can tell when it might keep you
from accidently running the battery down.
Regards,
Bob . . . =
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DoOOo=3D(_)=3DoOOo=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What a shame... |
<33889099.3DBD(at)wwd.net>
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic w Stucklen) |
I stand corrected: Preventive maintenance only....
Fred
writes:
>
>Frederic w Stucklen wrote:
>
>> But isn't it also true that "normal maintenance" can be performed
>> on ALL certified aircraft, including experimental. It still takes an
>IA
>> OR a person with a repairmans certificate to sign-off the annual
>> inspection process of the experimental class aircraft.
>
>NO! Preventive maintenence only, and only by the owner/operator PILOT
>for
>non-experimental aircraft.
>It only requires an A&P, not IA to sign-off the (annual, yearly, 12
>month
>take your pick) condition inspection for an experimental.
>
>43.3 Persons authorized to perform maintenance, preventive
>maintenance,
>rebuilding, and alterations.
>(g) The holder of a pilot certificate issued under Part 61 may perform
>preventive maintenance on any aircraft owned or operated by that pilot
>which is not used under Part 121, 127, 129, or 135.
>
>AC 20-106 - AIRCRAFT INSPECTION FOR THE GENERAL AVIATION AIRCRAFT
>OWNER
>
>Section 2. PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE
> PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE means simple preservation and the
>replacement
>of small standard parts not involving complex assemblies. It is
>corrective action taken before it becomes necessary to make more
>complex
>repairs. The following preventive maintenance may be accomplished by a
>certificated pilot, who is the owner or operator of an aircraft, not
>used in air carrier service.
> This list comes from FAR 43, Appendix A, Major Alterations, Major
>Repairs, and Preventive Maintenance, paragraph (c). It reads as
>follows:
>
> "(c) PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE. Work of the following type is
>preventive maintenance:
> (1) Removal, installation, and repair of landing gear tires.
> (2) Replacing elastic shock absorber cords on landing gear.
> (3) Servicing landing gear shock struts by adding oil, air, or
>both.
> (4) Servicing landing gear wheel bearings, such as cleaning and
>greasing.
> (5) Replacing defective safety wiring or cotter keys.
> (6) Lubrication not requiring disassembly other than removal of
>nonstructural items such as cover plates, cowlings, and fairings.
> (7) Making simple fabric patches not requiring rib stitching or
>the removal of structural parts or control surfaces.
> (8) Replenishing hydraulic fluid in the hydraulic reservoir.
> (9) Refinishing decorative coating of fuselage, wings, tail
>group
>surfaces (excluding balanced control surfaces), fairings, cowling,
>landing gear, cabin, or cockpit interior when removal or disassembly
>of
>any primary structure or operating system is not required.
> (10) Applying preservative or protective material to components
>where no disassembly of any primary structure or operating system is
>involved and where such coating is not prohibited or is not contrary
>to
>good practices.
> (11) Repairing upholstery and decorative furnishings of the
>cabin
>or cockpit interior when the repairing does not require disassembly of
>any primary structure or operating system or interfere with an
>operating
>system or affect primary structure of the aircraft.
> (12) Making small simple repairs to fairings, nonstructural
>cover
>plates, cowlings, and small patches and reinforcements not changing
>the
>contour so as to interfere with proper airflow.
> (13) Replacing side windows where that work does not interfere
>with the structure or any operating system such as controls,
>electrical
>equipment, etc.
> (14) Replacing safety belts.
> (15) Replacing seats or seat parts with replacement parts
>approved
>for the aircraft, not involving disassembly of any primary structure
>or
>operating system.
> (16) Troubleshooting and repairing broken circuits in landing
>light wiring circuits.
> (17) Replacing bulbs, reflectors, and lenses of position and
>landing lights.
> (18) Replacing wheels and skis where no weight and balance
>computation is involved.
> (19) Replacing any cowling not requiring removal of the
>propeller
>or disconnection of flight controls.
> (20) Replacing or cleaning spark plugs and setting of spark plug
>gap clearance.
> (21) Replacing any hose connection except hydraulic connections.
> (22) Replacing prefabricated fuel lines.
> (23) Cleaning fuel and oil strainers.
> (24) Replacing batteries and checking fluid level and specific
>gravity.
> (25) Removing and installing glider wings and tail surfaces that
>are specifically designed for quick removal and installation and when
>such removal and installation can be accomplished by the pilot."
>
>Bob Moore
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Web Search Fixed - Really! |
Matt,
Get used to it. When I was a programmer/analyst for IBM, we had
problems all of the time from our support team. We always cringed
when we were told the changes would be transparent to our
customers. They never were.
Jim Sears
RV-6A #22220 (fuselage coming along slowly)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jorear(at)mrnet.com |
| Subject: | Primers and Temperatures |
Greetings, RV'ers:
At the risk of getting "flamed" and being held responsible
for opening the can of worms otherwise known as the subject of primers,
I must ask for sage advise from the list regarding temperatures that one
can safely, and effectively spray primers.
I walk an extremely thin line when it comes to spousal approval for
the construction of my RV 6A, and I must be careful about not stinking
up the whole house from spraying primer. I have tried to vent paint
fumes outside from my basement workshop (from building RC model
airplanes no less) with very limited success. My wife has a nose on her
that would put a bloodhound to shame. Mind you in function, not
appearance!
As a result, my plan is to spray primer in my garage as the need
arises. The problem is that I live in Northeast Wisconsin, and we are
known for our frigid weather in the winter. No doubt you have heard of
the "Frozen Tundra."
Do the experienced members of the group think that this is a
workable plan? I am going to get one of those paper cup type sprayers
that I can quick disconnect/connect so that I will have the primer as
well as the part to be primed in the cold for only a short time. Are
there primers out there that are less affected by temperature than
others? I realize that some smell will remain once I return the parts
to the house, but I will construct a plastic sheet enclosure in the
basement and vent the air from it out a window.
Any and all help will be appreciated. I'm trying to get all the
i's dotted and the t's crossed while I am getting the shop ready.
Thanks in advance!
Best Regards,
Jeff Orear (Getting shop ready, ordering Empenage at Oshkosh '97)
jorear(at)mrnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Inverted fuel |
Frank van der Hulst wrote:
>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I've browsed the archives; there's lots of comment on whether or not to
> install a flop tube. However, I couldn't find any comment from anyone
> actually flying with one in an RV. Can someone flying with one comment on
> whether it was worth installing?
>
> Secondly, any thoughts about a capacitance sender in conjunction with a
> flop tube... Can the capacitance sender go all the way to the bottom of the
> tank (ie into the inboard-most bay)?
>
> Frank.
Frank
It's just too easy to put in the inverted system to leave it out.
My thinking is that if I win the lottery I can afford the inverted
oil and fuel system, but with out the flop tube in the fuel tank
it won't do me any good
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
One fuel tank sending unit was mounted upside down in the tank of the
rv-4 i recently got. This way it read full when the plane was upside
down. Is this a modification that goes with the flop tube? (ha)...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Rigging |
The rv-4 I got has the elevator rigged the same way as the magnum
(slightly higher on one side). I was told the same thing about the
flying qualities of this mod. I'm going to put it where the PLANS CALL
FOR UNLESS SOMEONE CONFIRMS it is okay. (oops on caps)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elon <elon.o(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What a shame... |
IMHO nothing in PART 43 applies to (or is obligatory for) experimental aircraft.
Section 43.1
indicates ALL CASES where Part 43 applies. When the FAR's say "this part" they
refer to all
twelve sections and all six apendicies of Part 43! Please note Paragraph (b)
in section 43.1.
SECTION 43.1 Applicability.
(a) EXCEPT AS PROVIDED IN PARAGRAPH (b) of this section, this "part" prescribes
rules
governing the maintenance, preventative maintenance... etc of any
(1) U.S. Aircraft. . .
(2) Foreign registered. . .
(3) Airframe, engine, prop . . .
(b) "This part DOES NOT APPLY TO ANY AIRCRAFT FOR WHICH AN EXPERIMENTAL AIRWORTHINESS
certificate has been issued . . ." (Thank you again EAA).
Experimental Aircraft are even excluded from Section 91.409 (Inspections).
This thread has become quite interesting. In particular, we all know the advantage
of being a
builder meeting the 51% rule and not a buyer. As a builder you get a repairman's
certificate for
that aircraft but where is it in the FARs? My AIM doesn't have Part 21 or 23.
Could
the annual inspection requirement be in there?
Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin lane <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | V-stab tolerances |
After a momentous day of moving two RV's to TTD hanger Brian had to comment
on how my V stab looked crooked. "Optical illusion", I said as I proudly
proved with a tape measure that the diagonals were exact. Exact at the rear
top, exact at the bottom front, BUT, what about the top leading edge? 5/8"
warp towards the passenger. I bought the kit from Bill Frazell who built
the VS. The skins look real nice. Apparently his jig wasn't. So, my
question is, how much is bad? I will fly it as to start out, is but
wondered what others thought about solutions: build a new one?, drill out
rivets and enlarge holes and twist it into place?, always roll left?, sue
Frazell? (he's an attorney, so that's real unlikely). What kind of
tolerances are flying now?
It was quite "enlightening" to see my plane in the sunlight after
two years of fluorescents. I am in greater awe of that flawless RV4 at Vans
fly-in that was simply polished. Those reflections have one hell of a
memory, "oh yea, this is where the bucking bar slipped a bit, this is where
the bulkhead didn't fit by 1/32", this is where the wife tried bucking, this
is where Dad bucked the wrong rivet, .........." kevin "the
painters will fix it" 6A, wings on tomorrow!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Darwin Esh <103126.3212(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Tim Lewis
RV-6A # 60023
San Antonio TX
Tim: Would you send me you E-mail address so we can keep in touch? I am going
off the RV-List next week.
Dar Esh
RV-6 QB #60021
Marble Falls TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca (joehine) |
Listers,
I have been on the list for a while and don't remember seeing any discussion
on using automotive oil in aircraft. I have tried to find any articals on
this but have been largely unsuccessfull.
Is anyone using car oils in their RV's, If we shouldn't use them, why is
that. Can anyone enlighten me why aircraft oils are any better than car
oils, given that a VW or other aircooled car engines survive fine on car oil.
Thanks in advance.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Darwin Esh <103126.3212(at)CompuServe.COM> |
Tim Lewis
San Antonio
Forgot to add my E-Mail address:
Dar Esh 103126.3212 CompuServe
RV-6 QB # 60021
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: B&C Starters . . . |
Dave,
What are the implications of your statement? I have a B&C alternator coming
for my engine. Does this mean I will need to fabricate a seperate mount?
Leo Davies
>
>And my $.02 on B&C products:
>
>B&C is one of the few folks that sell an alternator that fits Lycomings
>that do not have a boss-mount for the alternator.
>
>Best Regards,
>Dave Barnhart
>rv-6 sn 23744 (now N601DB)
>installing electrical and avionics
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What a shame... |
<< There is, however, a requirement for a 12 month condition inspection
written into the airworthiness certificate.
Other than normal preventative maintenance, an I.A., A&P, and/or Aircraft
Repairmen Certificate is required.
Jim Ayers
Less_Drag(at)juno.com
>>
Sorry guys,
It was a trick statement.
The clue was in my first sentence, which was omitted in the response
addressing FAR's.
The requirement for an A&P, I.A. and/or aircraft repairmen certificate is in
the airworthiness certificate for each homebuilt. At least it has been for
the three certificates I've gotten so far on N47RV.
Jim Ayers
1st certificate - Lyc. O-290 fixed pitch prop RV-3 N47RV
2nd certificate - LOM M332A fixed pitch or ground adjustable prop RV-3 N47RV
3rd certificate-LOM M332A flight adjustable, ground adjustable or fixed pitch
prop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wrong rv-4 cowl? |
>
>Dear Listers,
>
>A friend dropped by with his cowl from an older mostly finished rv-4 kit
>he had just bought. His cowl was several inches longer than mine. Also,
>the air inlets were sloped at a higher angle.
>
>My cowl measures approx. 37 & 3/8 inches from the back to front lip,
>measured along the center of the top cowl.
>
>I ordered a constant speed cowl, package list says I got one, and am
>concerned. If someone with an rv-4 kit could measure theirs and report
>back, I would greatly appreciate it.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Boris Robinson
>Starting fuselage.
Boris, I don't understand what the confusion is. His was an older kit and
he probably got the fixed pitch cowl. Yours is a constant speed cowl (which
is standard on all kits now) and is evidently what you wanted.
One simple test is to stand the cowl top on the firewall edge with the
spinner flange facing up (this test is for the -4 only). Lay a 4' straight
edge on the spinner flange from side to side. When measuring the distance
from the left edge of the cowl (where the hinge pin will enter the cowl) to
the bottom of the straight edge, approx 4" is the fixed pitch cowl and
requires a 4" prop extension, approx 2" is the constant speed cowl and will
fit the c/s prop or a fixed pitch prop with a 2.25" extension.
PS: There was some discussion last week about extensions and everyone was
refering to the 2.5" extension. There is no 2.5" extension. It is a 2.25"
extension. Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel H. Morris III" <Morristec(at)icdc.com> |
Glenn,
It all depends on how much canopy you want and how much money you have.
Seriously, the better canopies (lighter, more compact) are more expensive,
as are the containers. Generally an average unit is 3 to 4 inches thick
and a good one is 2 inches thick. Surplus parachutes are thicker.
Dan Morris
Morristec(at)icdc.com
----------
> From: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> To: Morristec
> Subject: RV-List: Parachutes
> Date: Sunday, May 25, 1997 10:30 AM
>
>
> Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com [163.179.3.10] by bbs.icdc.com with
smtp
> Received: from matronics.com by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP
(8.6.12/SMI-4.1)
> Received: by matronics.com (4.1/SMI-4.1)
> Errors-To: bounces(at)matronics.com
> Message-Id: <33886CF4.5E33@anet-chi.com>
> Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 11:46:44 -0500
> From: Glenn & Judi <anet-chi.com!flyers(at)matronics.com>
> X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U)
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Parachutes
> Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Precedence: bulk
> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Can someone tell me how thick a backpack type parachute is? I am sure
> there are many different brands with many different thicknesses. I am
> just looking for a ballpark idea of how thick they are.
>
> Thanks
> Glenn Gordon
> RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Junk email: Free Aircraft Tool Catalog |
>From: kj-mktg(at)nevwest.com
>Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 15:29:25 +1200
>To: kj-mktg(at)nevwest.com
>Subject: Free Aircraft Tool Catalog
>////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>
>If you wish to be removed from this advertiser's future mailings, please
>reply with the subject "Remove" and this software will automatically block
>you from their future mailings.
>
>////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
I abhor this crap. I'd have considered looking at his catalog if it wasn't
for the above. There is NO way I am going to reply and have him verify my
email address as correct and sell it on to someone else. Equally, I'm not
going to do nothing and continually get his junk mail.
If I can, I'll be removing myself from his list is by emailing his
postmaster asking for his account to be yanked.
>You have been hand selected for a free aircraft tool catalog!
[snip]
Just how did I get hand selected? Surely it wasn't through the RV list?
Maybe following my recent posting to rec.aviation.homebuilt? Anyone else
get this?
Matt: if this guy is a member of the list, can you please remove him. Thanks.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov> |
The thinnest I know of is probably a security, about 3/4" thick. They
range up to about 2 inches, military type.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael McGee <jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com> |
>Can someone tell me how thick a backpack type parachute is?
Back parachutes can be anywhere between 1.5 and 6 inches thick. Some are
designed to also be part of the seat you set on. Seat parachutes that have
none on the back are rare these days.
I expect to build two sets of seat backs (the cushion part), one set for
use with a parachute and one set without. As a one time skydiver-driver
and parachute rigger I can tell you that it can be uncomfortable and very
awkward to have a parachute on that sets you on the edge of your seat. It
simply is not necessary, there are many very comfortable rigs out there.
If you are on a budget (the nice ones can run up to a grand or more) there
can still be had military surplus gear that you can get into for less than
500. I'll probably put together an old B-5 harness and container with an
Airforce C-9 (28' dia round) canopy. It won't be feather lilght but is
hell bent for stout if I really need to use it at 250+ mph.
Mike McGee
jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Experimental Maintenence |
As a student A&P I have just gone through this same question. The builder of
an Experimental aircraft may perform all maintenance and repairs on his/her
aircraft provided he/she holds a repairman license for that aircraft. When I
completed my Kitfox applying for the Experimental Aircraft Repairman
Certificate was part of the paperwork package sent out by the FAA. My FAA
inspector was very helpful in providing direction to get this necessary piece
of paper. An A&P can also perform work on your Experimental, but why --- You
built it so you can fix it, I hope. However, if you purchase an Experimental
used (as in already built) you may not perform anything other than the
preventive main. listed in Part 43. You must get an A&P, I.A. to perform the
Annual Condition Inspection and other repairs etc. One option available when
purchasing a second hand homebuilt would be for you to get the original
builder to do this work for you (free by the way) . He can legally do this
for you as long as he does not surrender his Repairman Cert. for that
aircraft. Hope this helps . Kitfox N390SH, RV-4 no. 2280.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rimbold(at)apollo.hp.com (Rob Rimbold) |
> I have been on the list for a while and don't remember seeing any
> discussion on using automotive oil in aircraft. I have tried to find
> any articals on this but have been largely unsuccessfull.
>
> Is anyone using car oils in their RV's, If we shouldn't use them, why
> is that. Can anyone enlighten me why aircraft oils are any better than
> car oils, given that a VW or other aircooled car engines survive fine
> on car oil.
Actually, the reverse is probably true. I saw a presentation on this
at Sun-N-Fun. The presenter (had some connection to the petroleum
industry, I think) was of the firm belief that "oil was oil" in
regards to lubrication. It's the oil weight and additives that make a
difference. Things like detergents (the "ash" that's not in "ashless"
airplane engine oils. He thought that the two reasons ashless oils
were not used in aircraft engines were "It's always worked fine
without it" and the heavy $$ cost of proving that detergents help in
aircraft engines, and don't hurt them.
Recommendations were to use a single-weight oil and change the oil
frequently. Changing the oil frequently is the best way to prolong
the life of any engine, including ones mounted on aircraft. Engine
heaters for cold climates were also strongly recommended.
'Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <RNuckolls(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: B&C Starters . . . |
>And my $.02 on B&C products: =
> =
>B&C is one of the few folks that sell an alternator =
>that fits Lycomings that do not have a boss-mount for =
>the alternator. =
>>What are the implications of your statement? I have =
>>a B&C alternator coming for my engine. Does this =
>>mean I will need to fabricate a seperate mount?
Leo, I stumbled over the syntax on Dave's reply too . . .
but sorted it out. He's acknowleging B&C's continued
support of BOTH the "boss" mount and "case" mount
installations. If you spoke with someone at B&C before
you ordered, they should have determined which mount
you needed. If indeed the wrong mount comes with
your alternator, they will have the other style
available.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
I have an RV-4 with the high compression 0320-E2D, and would like to put a
smoke system in it. Has anyone else done this? Is this something you buy
already manufactured, or do you make it? How does it work, and how long will
the smoke last. I guess that would be a function of the size of the oil
tank. Also, are there any regulations on using smoke, such as over populated
areas, etc. Are they required to be used only in air shows? I'm thinking the
weight up front might even help the tail heavy RV-4. Details are appreciated!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com> |
I've fitted up my flaps with the doubler extending beyond the rear spar flange
as per plans and I don't have any interference when raising them. Has anyone
else had the problem Gary describes?
Les Williams/RV-6AQB/N24LW (res)/finish kit
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of
aol.com!RV6junkie(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 23, 1997 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6 flap brace
Looking from the top it would be skin, doubler, spar, brace. Be sure to trim
the doubler skin flush with the rear spar otherwise it will interfere with
the flap LE skin when traveling in the up direction.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
>
>Hi,
>
>Can someone tell me how thick a backpack type parachute is?
I have a Softie made by Para-Phernalia (206-435-7220) and it is 4 inches
thick, which means it sets you a little forward in the standard RV seat.
Micheal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft oils |
<< I have been on the list for a while and don't remember seeing any
discussion
on using automotive oil in aircraft. I have tried to find any articals on
this but have been largely unsuccessfull.
Is anyone using car oils in their RV's, If we shouldn't use them, why is
that. Can anyone enlighten me why aircraft oils are any better than car
oils, given that a VW or other aircooled car engines survive fine on car
oil. >>
The additive chemistries are significantly different. There was some
discussion in the AOL forums on this subject which resulted in universal
agreement between all knowledgable parties as to the folly of auto oil use in
"aircraft" engines.
Why would you do it anyway? The price difference, when you consider all the
other aspects of flying your own plane, is negligible. IMO you should use
the engine manufacturer's recommendations and stick to oils designed for
aircraft engines. Now, if you have an auto conversion in your plane, that's
a different kettle of fish.
Get in touch with Howard Fenton in Tulsa (HFentonTUL(at)aol.com) and he can
explain in detail why you should not use auto oil in an aircraft engine.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shelby1138(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: IO360 on RV6 |
In a message dated 5/23/97 12:41:13 PM, you wrote:
<>
Paul,
Thanks for the response. Yes, my engine came from a Lake Amphibian. It is an
IO-360 "A1B". What Steve Barnard is using with his Cowling and prop setup is
an engine with the 6th order counterweights. After talking to Hartzell, the
impression from their "sales" rep was that the extended prop should not be a
problem. The problem is there are "no" certified applications that I have
found with the extended prop not using the counterweighted engine.
Apparently, these engines/prop combinations came about as the manufacturers
of the twins tried to create sleaker/longer cowlings by pushing the prop
further and further out.
The Whirlwind or other composites have the merit of being less weight and
less swinging weight which addresses two areas of concern for me. I am still
aways off and given the choice between a certified prop combination with me
having to do my own cowling re-engineering and an uncertified prop setup , I
think I would have to go with the certified set-up. It will be a great deal
more trouble and folks such as Steve who have done this modification have
advised me to not do it, but I am not going to risk a catastrophic and most
assuredly fatal failure to do so.
I am responding to you via the list, because this could be a discussion there
would be some additional input or interests.
Thanks
Shelby In Nashvillle
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael McGee <jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Parachutes (typo) |
> I'll probably put together an old B-5 harness and container with..
^^^
-->Should have read B-4 harness/container.
^^^
Also, the old 26' Navy conical is an even better surplus canopy if you can
find one. It was a high speed parachute and it has a smaller pack volume
than the 28' C-9.
Mike McGee
jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan Carroll <carroll(at)geology.wisc.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Primers and Temperatures |
> I walk an extremely thin line when it comes to spousal approval for
>the construction of my RV 6A, and I must be careful about not stinking
>up the whole house from spraying primer.
>
> As a result, my plan is to spray primer in my garage as the need
>arises. The problem is that I live in Northeast Wisconsin, and we are
>known for our frigid weather in the winter. No doubt you have heard of
>the "Frozen Tundra."
>
Jeff - I have a similar problem, and nearly saw the whole project crash due
to "carcinogenic fumes permeating the whole house" after painting in the
(attached) garage.
I'm using Polyfiber epoxy primer (from Wicks). The can says you can use it
down to 35 degrees. I live in southern Wisconsin, and my strategy has been
to wait for the occasional warm winter day and paint outside. So far this
has worked great at temperatures in the 36-37 degree range, with no
perceived ill effects. There is very little odor after a couple of hours
drying time. No doubt there are other similar primers (see very extensive
postings in archives).
Alan Carroll
RV-8 #80177 (Empenage)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What a shame... |
| From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS) |
writes:
Sorry again,
I need to correct myself.
With the airworthiness certificate is a set of Operation Limitations. In
the "Operation Limitations" is a sentence that defines who can perform
maintenance on that particular aircraft.
The operation limitations is supposed to be a complete document on the
total operation of that aircraft, not just the restricted flight area for
xx number of hours.
Jim Ayers
Less_Drag(at)juno.com
>Sorry guys,
>
>It was a trick statement.
>
>The clue was in my first sentence, which was omitted in the response
>addressing FAR's.
>
>The requirement for an A&P, I.A. and/or aircraft repairmen certificate
>is in
>the airworthiness certificate for each homebuilt. At least it has
>been for
>the three certificates I've gotten so far on N47RV.
>
>Jim Ayers
>1st certificate - Lyc. O-290 fixed pitch prop RV-3 N47RV
>2nd certificate - LOM M332A fixed pitch or ground adjustable prop RV-3
N47RV
>3rd certificate-LOM M332A flight adjustable, ground adjustable or fixed
pitch
>prop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What a shame... |
| From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS) |
writes:
Sorry again,
I need to correct myself.
With the airworthiness certificate is a set of Operation Limitations. In
the "Operation Limitations" is a sentence that defines who can perform
maintenance on that particular aircraft.
The operation limitations is supposed to be a complete document on the
total operation of that aircraft, not just the restricted flight area for
xx number of hours.
Jim Ayers
Less_Drag(at)juno.com
>Sorry guys,
>
>It was a trick statement.
>
>The clue was in my first sentence, which was omitted in the response
>addressing FAR's.
>
>The requirement for an A&P, I.A. and/or aircraft repairmen certificate
>is in
>the airworthiness certificate for each homebuilt. At least it has
>been for
>the three certificates I've gotten so far on N47RV.
>
>Jim Ayers
>1st certificate - Lyc. O-290 fixed pitch prop RV-3 N47RV
>2nd certificate - LOM M332A fixed pitch or ground adjustable prop RV-3
N47RV
>3rd certificate-LOM M332A flight adjustable, ground adjustable or fixed
pitch
>prop RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Rozendaal <dougr(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft oils |
>
>Listers,
>
>I have been on the list for a while and don't remember seeing any discussion
>on using automotive oil in aircraft. I have tried to find any articals on
>this but have been largely unsuccessfull.
>
>Is anyone using car oils in their RV's, If we shouldn't use them, why is
>that. Can anyone enlighten me why aircraft oils are any better than car
>oils, given that a VW or other aircooled car engines survive fine on car oil.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
Joe,
My name is Doug Rozendaal and I own and operate Petroblend
Corp(www.petroblend.com), a lubircating oil blending company. We
manufacture oils for automotive applications including cars, trucks, heavy
duty off-highway, and agricultural applications.
This my be alot.... more than you want to know, but you asked for it....
Your presumption that aircraft oil is better that automotive products is
false. There are only two approved milspec's for reciprocating aircraft oil
on the market today. One is mineral oil (synthetic base stocks can meet
this spec) and Ashless dispersant (synthetics can meet this as well) The
mineral oil spec was released in WWII and remains essentially unchanged.
The AD spec was released in the early '60's. Rest assured if the airlines
were still operating recips we would have better oils for our aircraft.
Modern automotive oils contain metalic additives to prevent oxidation,
inhibit rust, and prevent wear. These are most often Zinc
Dithiodiakylphosphate (ZDDP)and over-based sulfonates of calcium and
magnesium. These metalic components are called detergents. Automotive oils
also contain dispersants like aircraft oils, usually nitrogen based, but in
much higher concentrations. Also included are Viscosity index improvers and
pour point depressants. A heavy duty diesel engine oil (HDDO) can contain
as much as 1% ash (metalic components) The new passenger car motor oils
(PCMO) are API rated SJ. These oils have less ash, specifically
phosphourus. This is because the OEM's believe that these will poison
catalytic converters. These new SJ oils have considerably less antiwear
protection than the SH and earlier oils. The car makers realize that the
current engines are running consistently to 200000 miles and the warranty
goes to 36000. The catatlytic carries a 50,000 mile warranty and soon will
have a 100000 mile warranty and very often does not make it. Hence they are
less concerned about wear than exhaust system performance.
So much for the background,
So why can't I use PCMO or HDDO in my airplane. Short answer, because the
FAA says you can't. In experimentals you can. Will it work? Yes, with some
caveats. If your engine burns oil the metalic detergents will form deposits
when they burn. These deposits are most harmful in ring belt. The new SJ
PCMO's with less ZDDP may be the best choice. The cam in your Lycoming
would benefit very much from the ZDDP that is there though. The reason why
the VW liked these oils is, those engines are tighter than your Lycoming.
This is because when you pull the power back on your VW you slow down the
fan and hence the air. When you put the nose down on your Lyc and are going
200 mph with the throttle closed you have to have enough clearance to keep
the jug from grabbing the piston. None of these problems are not solveable
but neither the military or the airlines care. They are the only groups
with the clout or the money to push such a drive. Phillips tried an
anti-wear oil with ZDDP called X/C-II. The FAA decreed that you had to have
a 337 form to use it. The mechanics who, are not exactly open-minded blamed
everything from fouled plugs to dead mags on the oil. The only group more
hard headed than the mechanics is the pilots. The short story is that it
was a huge public relations disaster. The product was probably good, in
healthy tight engines, but you can bet your last penny that Phillips has no
interest in going down that road again.
Would I do it?
I don't, I think I should, I too am a bit of a hard-head. If I had a
Continental Voyager engine I think I would. I have considered making a
product for my Mustang friends with RR Merlins. They really need it. But
who will pay for the research, I need a Mustang and enough fuel to run it
for 500 to 1000 hours. I will donate my time to fly it ;). Any takers.
PS I do use multi-vis and would recommend it for nearly all applications.
I have no spell checker and so the spelling is errant, and my own.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)netins.net
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: SMOKIN RV-4? |
<< I have an RV-4 with the high compression 0320-E2D, and would like to put a
smoke system in it. Has anyone else done this? Is this something you buy
already manufactured, or do you make it? >>
Check the archives! Oddly enough, this should be in there.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft oils |
A good question. We need some answers about oil. about oil.
When the aircraft engines we used were first produced, we used very chaep
oil, and the engines lasted for 2,000 hours before overhaul.
Now with all the sophisticated (read expensive) oils we use, the engines
still last for 2,000 hours.
Something is wrong - either the engines must last longer, or be more
reliable, or we are buying expensive oil for no good reason.
Consumer reports had an issue on oil for cars last year, the first
scientific study I have ever seen. Their conclusions were : cheap oil worked
as well as expensive oil, and there was no deterioration in the oil at
10,000 miles.
Having said that, I am not an expert in this, and I don't have the courage
to use cheap oil in my Lycoming.
John (RV6A - about to fly !0
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Rozendaal <dougr(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SMOKIN RV-4? |
>
>I have an RV-4 with the high compression 0320-E2D, and would like to put a
>smoke system in it. Has anyone else done this? Is this something you buy
>already manufactured, or do you make it? How does it work, and how long will
>the smoke last. I guess that would be a function of the size of the oil
>tank. Also, are there any regulations on using smoke, such as over populated
>areas, etc. Are they required to be used only in air shows? I'm thinking the
>weight up front might even help the tail heavy RV-4. Details are appreciated!
>
>
A smoke system is notning more than a tank, pump, a regulating valve,
selinoid valve, and nozzles.
The pump should deliver between 1/2 and 3/4 gallon per minute. The tank is
as big as you like. Many use a 4 or 5 gallon plastic boat fuel tank if it is
an exp. installation. The pump can be an RV (motorhome) water pump with
viton or buna-n seals. The nozzles are just stainless steel fittings that
protrude into the exhaust system saddled with a hose clamp like the egt
probe at about the same location. The idea is to vaporize the oil not burn
it. Put the selinoid up on the firewall to get a clean cut off when you
shut it off. Most put an arm switch on the panel and a switch on the
throttle or stick. You can set it up so the pump runs when the arm switch
is on and the other switch controls the valve or both switchs run both togather.
The oil is any parafinnic mineral oil of light viscosity with a high flash
point. Sun Sunpar 110 or eq. Buy it by the drum.
It will make a smokey, oilly mess of the bottom of your plane. Commercial
setups are available from any Ag plane supply co. like Mid-Continent in
Hayti MO.
See you at the airshow!
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)netins.net
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gregory S. Brewsaugh" <gregbrew(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Wanted-Pneumatic Squeezer |
I just finished the rear spar of my HS. Before my forearms look like
Popeye's, does anyone know of a used or decent lower priced air-powered
rivet squeezer and yokes? ($450+ is a bit steep right now.)
Greg (Is this list great or what?)
gregbrew(at)gte.net
RV-6A
Building up the skelton on the HS
(Say...this isn't so bad...)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Moore <bobmoore(at)wwd.net> |
| Subject: | DAR Inspection -- Pink Slip |
Recently, someone requested information concerning the
condition of the aircraft and paperwork at the time of
the airworthiness inspection.
Someone else responded that the DAR conducting his A/W
inspection would not accept the registration "pink slip".
The following paragraph is quoted from AC 20-27D should
anyone encounter a similar situation in the future. Note
the "or pink slip".
Bob Moore
11. AIRCRAFT INSPECTION.
The applicant should be prepared to furnish the following to the FAA
inspector or DAR:
a. An aircraft complete and ready to fly except for cowlings,
fairings, and panels opened for inspection.
b. An Aircraft Registration Certificate, AC Form 8050-3, or the pink
copy of Aircraft Registration Application, AC Form 8050-1 (with N
number).
c. Evidence of inspections, such as logbook entries signed by the
amateur builder, describing all inspections conducted during
construction of the aircraft in addition to photographic documentation
of construction details. This will substantiate that the construction
has been accomplished in accordance with acceptable workmanship methods,
techniques, and practices. It is recommended that this evidence be
documented in some form (e.g., the Service and Maintenance Manual
available from the EAA).
d. A logbook for the aircraft, engine, and propeller to allow for
review of service records and recording of inspection and certification
by the FAA inspector or DAR.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JHeadric(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft oils |
Re auto oil in aircraft engines
I used auto oil, 10-40wt in my O-320 in an RV4 for 8 years, except for
break-in, and had no problem whatsoever. I had overhauled the engine, so it
only took about one quart every 40 hours. No overheating, no excessive
anything. Plenty much cheaper than AeroShell, too.
A&P-IA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Grant E. Young" <gyoung(at)crl.nmsu.edu> |
Hi RVrs,
I went to install my 4 EGT probes yesterday and found that it will be
very difficult to put all four probes at the recommended 4-8 inches from
the exhaust flange. I can do all four at about 3.5 inches, but not sure
that is a good idea. I am assuming that they should all be the same
distance from their relative flanges. How have others handled this problem?
Also, I am using an electronic tach (RMI monitor) so the tack drive
output om my o-320-e2d goes unused. Do I need to put a cap on it? If
so, what kind and where do I get it. It is right next to my VAC pump so
there isn't much room (> 1/8 inch).
Thanks in advance.....
Grant in New Mexico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)A.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FAA finds several design omissions |
>
>Don't bad mouth the FAA out of habit.
> Don't always assume they are bad .
And don't always assume they are OK, either. The REAL problem is the level
of inconsistency between FSDOs, DAR's, A&Ps, IAs,etc.
Just because they have the credentials does not mean they are good. Just
yesterday, I was helping a good friend work on the AT6 he had just
purchased, getting it ready for its first flight in 3 years. Even though
the previous owner was an IA, you would not believe the number of
substandard items we have found on this airplane!
The message is 'know your inspector'. Talk to other builders; find out who
is good and who is not. Here in the Phoenix, Arizona area, we are blessed
with having a couple of very good DARs (Mac Childers comes to mind
immediately) who have certified many RVs.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 (now N601DB)
installing electrical and avionics
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Moore <bobmoore(at)wwd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What a shame... |
JAMES E AYERS wrote:
> With the airworthiness certificate is a set of Operation Limitations. In
> the "Operation Limitations" is a sentence that defines who can perform
> maintenance on that particular aircraft.
> The operation limitations is supposed to be a complete document on the
> total operation of that aircraft, not just the restricted flight area for
> xx number of hours.
Below is an excerpt from AC 20-27D, the Operating Limitations for an
Experimental-Amateur Built Aircraft. Note that while the limitations
list those persons permitted to accomplish a Condition Inspection, NO
mention is made concerning maintenence.
8. No person shall operate this aircraft unless within the preceding 12
calendar months it has had a condition inspection performed in
accordance with FAR Part 43, appendix D, and has been found to be in a
condition for safe operation. In addition, this inspection shall be
recorded in accordance with limitation 10 listed below.
9. The builder of this aircraft, if certificated as a repairman, FAA
certified mechanic holding an Airframe and Powerplant rating and/or
appropriately rated repair stations may perform condition inspections in
accordance with FAR Part 43, appendix D.
10. condition inspections shall be recorded in the aircraft maintenance
records showing the following or a similarly worded statement:
"I certify that this aircraft has been inspected on (insert date) in
accordance with the scope and detail of appendix D of Part 43 and found
to be in a condition for safe operation."
The entry will include the aircraft total time in service, the name,
signature, and certificate type and number of the person performing the
inspection.
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
I'm confused. How do you jump out of a RV? My RV6-A can't release the
canopy because of the lift struts. And if it did release, it would probably
decapitate me anyway. What is the reason for paying good money for something
that is uncomfortable and cannot be used? I guess I missed a point
somewhere.
I don't want to start anything controversial but as I said before "I'm
confused".
Gene cafgef(at)aol.com
Starting to make canopy dust today. Fear & Trepidation
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)A.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft oils |
joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca (joehine) wrote:
>I have been on the list for a while and don't remember seeing any discussion
>on using automotive oil in aircraft. I have tried to find any articals on
>this but have been largely unsuccessfull.
A long time ago I had a discussion with an engineer in the petroleum
industry on this subject, and the bottom line was "Don't use automotive oil
in your aircraft engine".
As I recall, it had something to do with the fact that aircraft engines are
designed to consume oil during operation. The additive packages in
automotive oils are quite different from what's used in aircraft oil, and
are not designed for this.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 (now N601DB)
installing electrical and avionics
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)A.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: B&C Starters . . . |
First I wrote:
>B&C is one of the few folks that sell an alternator that fits Lycomings
>that do not have a boss-mount for the alternator.
And that prompted Leo Davies to ask:
>What are the implications of your statement? I have a B&C alternator coming
>for my engine. Does this mean I will need to fabricate a seperate mount?
It means that most of the alternator brackets I've seen advertised
(including the one in Van's catalog) are availabel only in the boss-mount
style. Earlier Lycomings (like mine) did not have such a mounting boss for
the alternator. Instead the bracket mounts to the case bolts. So, if you
have an older Lycoming, you need a mounting bracket designed to mount the
alternator of your choice to the case bolts on the engine.
B&C is one of the few companies that offers such.(Be advised, however, that
it is designed to attach also to B&C's starter (If you look at most
production aircraft, the 'arm' of the alternator mount attaches to the
starter).
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 (now N601DB)
installing electrical and avionics
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian.Carrigan(at)Sciatl.COM |
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:26 -0500 (EST)
From: "proaxis.com!retflygtiger(at)matronics.com%PMDF"(at)INTER.corp.sciatl.com
Subject: RV-List: Firewall
--Boundary (ID sYplwc8E76kks/lsI514xg)
I don't know if the oil filter, etc., will fit, but you might have
problems fitting and mounting the hanging rudder pedals. I would (and
did (oops)) flip it to the proper position.
- Brian J. Carrigan RV-6 ad infinitum
______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________
Subject: RV-List: Firewall
Date: 5/22/97 10:26 AM
If anyone has an engine hung with a constant speed gov., Could you tell me
if you believe that the gov. will fit with the indentation upside down from
the catalog plan. I don't want to remake it if I can help it.
Thanks
Have A Great Day!
Denny Harjehausen, retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com
RV-6/ Fuselage
Lebanon, OR
--Boundary (ID sYplwc8E76kks/lsI514xg)
id QAA05014; Thu May 22 16:00:27 1997
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 08:26:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Denny Harjehausen <proaxis.com!retflygtiger(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: Firewall
--Boundary (ID sYplwc8E76kks/lsI514xg)--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Experimental Maintenence |
>
>As a student A&P I have just gone through this same question. The builder of
>an Experimental aircraft may perform all maintenance and repairs on his/her
>aircraft provided he/she holds a repairman license for that aircraft. When I
>completed my Kitfox applying for the Experimental Aircraft Repairman
>Certificate was part of the paperwork package sent out by the FAA. My FAA
>inspector was very helpful in providing direction to get this necessary piece
>of paper. An A&P can also perform work on your Experimental, but why --- You
>built it so you can fix it, I hope. However, if you purchase an Experimental
>used (as in already built) you may not perform anything other than the
>preventive main. listed in Part 43. You must get an A&P, I.A. to perform
^^^^^
One correction ... the mechanic who performs the Conditional
Inspection (aka annual) on an Experimental does NOT need to have an I.A.
rating. This might make it a bit easier to to find a friendly mechanic.
.... Gil (I have a mechanics "A" rating and use it to sign-off my own
Experimental, Exhibition & Racing, Mini-Nimbus sailplane) Alexander
RV6A, #20701 ...on hold
the
>Annual Condition Inspection and other repairs etc. One option available when
>purchasing a second hand homebuilt would be for you to get the original
>builder to do this work for you (free by the way) . He can legally do this
>for you as long as he does not surrender his Repairman Cert. for that
>aircraft. Hope this helps . Kitfox N390SH, RV-4 no. 2280.
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ammeter <ammeterj(at)seanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Parachutes FOR SALE |
>
>> I'll probably put together an old B-5 harness and container with..
> ^^^
>-->Should have read B-4 harness/container.
> ^^^
>
>Also, the old 26' Navy conical is an even better surplus canopy if you can
>find one. It was a high speed parachute and it has a smaller pack volume
>than the 28' C-9.
>
>
>Mike McGee
>jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com
>
>
I've got a 26' Navy conical serial number 153xxx manufactured Feb 1962.
Also in the description is the word "Steinthal". If anyone has a use for
this I'd be happy to sell it. It was inspected about 8 years ago and it was
noted that the canopy was "unmodified, not steerable and in good shape", the
pilot chute was "weak but ok". To my knowledge it has not been used since
the inspection. I did open it but then had it repacked by an experienced
parachutist (not that I intended to use it).
Anyone interested in this chute make me an offer.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
206-525-5445
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ammeter <ammeterj(at)seanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Primers and Temperatures |
>
>Greetings, RV'ers:
>
>
> I walk an extremely thin line when it comes to spousal approval for
>the construction of my RV 6A, and I must be careful about not stinking
>up the whole house from spraying primer. I have tried to vent paint
>fumes outside from my basement workshop (from building RC model
>airplanes no less) with very limited success. My wife has a nose on her
>that would put a bloodhound to shame. Mind you in function, not
>appearance!
>
>
>Best Regards,
>Jeff Orear (Getting shop ready, ordering Empenage at Oshkosh '97)
>jorear(at)mrnet.com
>
>
>
>
I used a squirrel cage fan from an electric furnace. This is the kind of
fan/motor combination that can move enough air to heat/cool an entire house.
I mounted the fan on an outside wall of the basement/garage workshop. The
fan moves so much air that, even on the slow setting, I find that my dogs
'door' in the kitchen upstairs tends to hang about three inches open towards
the inside of the house. God forbid I turn the fan on when a fire is going
in the fireplace (guess how I learned that---).
Suffice it to say that there is NO odor in the house from whatever is
happening in the workshop. What I'm effectively doing is creating a
negative pressure area in the garage and no air from the garage will move
into the rest of the house. Instead, air from the house tends to move to
the garage. In practice, I usually leave the two garage doors open an inch
or two to avoid the above problems.
If your wife's nose does emulate that of a bloodhound you may have to use
some tubing to move the vented air some distance from the house. Good luck
with your project and remember that no matter how much the RV is worth to
you (in time, money or whatever) it would cost more to have a divorce;
gotta keep the wife happy while building!!! Don't ever let her think the
project is more important to you than her ( even when there may be times
that it is).
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
206-525-5445
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ammeter <ammeterj(at)seanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Junk email: Free Aircraft Tool Catalog |
>
>>From: kj-mktg(at)nevwest.com
>>Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 15:29:25 +1200
>>To: kj-mktg(at)nevwest.com
>>Subject: Free Aircraft Tool Catalog
>
>>////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>
>
>>You have been hand selected for a free aircraft tool catalog!
>
>[snip]
>
>Just how did I get hand selected? Surely it wasn't through the RV list?
>Maybe following my recent posting to rec.aviation.homebuilt? Anyone else
>get this?
>
>Matt: if this guy is a member of the list, can you please remove him. Thanks.
>
>Frank.
>
>
I get junk email at least every day and I don't post that much to RAH or
wherever. I've been keeping a file of the crap that I've been getting just
for my own curiousity; maybe I can find out how they collect our email
addresses.
Does anyone know of a junk email filter?? Maybe we could buy one at the
same store that sells wire strechers and hole shrinkers.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
3233 NE 95th St
Seattle WA, 98115 USA
206-525-5445
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RodWoodard <rodwoodard(at)mcione.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wanted-Pneumatic Squeezer |
Hello Popeye:
I bought my used pneumatic squeezer from Action Air Parts, Inc. for $250
with a 1-1/2" yoke. Their number is 810-364-5885.
A great investment IMHO.
Rod Woodard
Loveland, Colorado 80537
RV-8, #80033
----------
> From: Gregory S. Brewsaugh <gte.net!gregbrew(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Wanted-Pneumatic Squeezer
> Date: Monday, May 26, 1997 10:53 AM
>
>
> I just finished the rear spar of my HS. Before my forearms look like
> Popeye's, does anyone know of a used or decent lower priced air-powered
> rivet squeezer and yokes? ($450+ is a bit steep right now.)
>
> Greg (Is this list great or what?)
>
> gregbrew(at)gte.net
> RV-6A
> Building up the skelton on the HS
> (Say...this isn't so bad...)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
>I went to install my 4 EGT probes yesterday and found that it will be
>very difficult to put all four probes at the recommended 4-8 inches from
>the exhaust flange. I can do all four at about 3.5 inches, but not sure
>that is a good idea. I am assuming that they should all be the same
>distance from their relative flanges. How have others handled this problem?
>
>Also, I am using an electronic tach (RMI monitor) so the tack drive
>output om my o-320-e2d goes unused. Do I need to put a cap on it? If
>Grant in New Mexico
Grant,
My EGT probes are a little closer to the flange. Can't remember for sure,
but I think it's around 3". It's at what ever distance the GEM Insight
people recommended. I would imagine that the probes might not last as long
if they're placed closer to the flange. However, I would think that the
best accuracy would occur if all of the probes were placed at the same
distance. You didn't say which instrument you were using. A call to the
manufacturer might be in order.
I believe that Avery sells the tach cover that you're looking for.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)navix.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wanted-Pneumatic Squeezer |
>I just finished the rear spar of my HS. Before my forearms look like
>Popeye's, does anyone know of a used or decent lower priced air-powered
>rivet squeezer and yokes? ($450+ is a bit steep right now.)
>gregbrew(at)gte.net
Greg,
You could have set the #4 rivets in the rear spar with the Avery "C" tool.
This would certainly be easier and faster than using a hand squeezer. I
have a pneumatic squeezer but still set these rivets with the Avery tool.
Really, if you have a good hand squeezer (Avery) and the "C" tool, you can
get along fine without the pneumatic. I justified buying one by assembling
my own spars and using the money I saved to buy the squeezer but I'm kind of
a tool freak. If I was a little short of cash (what am I saying---two girls
in college) I'd just make due with the hand squeezer. Of course, I wouldn't
part with my pneumatic:)
Sorry, can't help you as far as a low cost a pneumatic.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)navix.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <RNuckolls(at)compuserve.com> |
Kitfox List
/Two questions occur to me. =
/I have heard that length of coax is critical =
/to performance but when I mention this to techs they scoff =
/and brush me off with the comment that this is old data =
/and no longer applies?! =
Actually, it NEVER applied . . . at least not for any
good reason. Coax cable does have some losses that get
worse as you go up in frequency . . . DME, Transponder,
and GPS antenna coaxes should be MINIMIZED but no
antenna coax requires OPTOMIZATION for length.
/Also, which antenna presents the least drag while still giving =
/good performance.
The differences in drag for the different brands and styles
of antenna for the same task are calculable but hardly
an issue for anyone except folk who are trying to win races.
Performance of all antennas for an application is about the
same too . . . as long as they don't screw up the design
with too many "matching" devices that tend to make VSWR
look really good and efficiency look really bad.
/Is it worthwhile to replace coax when replacing radios?
If the coax is more than 10 years old or has been subject
to hyrocarbon contamination (fuel, hydraulic fluid, oil,
lots of guckem from exhaust gasses leaking through
belly skins, etc.) it's probably allright.
/How do you determine if your existing coax is up to snuff?
VERY good question and the answer is IT AIN'T EASY. It's
unfortunate that many of the contaminants that cause a
coax feedline to degrade in terms of losses from one end
to the other will make the coax look BETTER when you
measure VSWR. The best rule of thumb is if you're doing
other work in the area, the coax is ten years old and =
replacing it isn't a really big deal, why not? Otherwise
it takes some pretty sophisticated test equipment that
very vew avionics shops have.
Regards,
Bob . . . =
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DoOOo=3D(_)=3DoOOo=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Mack <donmack(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Bulkhead/Horizontal Stab angle pieces |
Working on the fuselage skeleton on my 6A.
There are two angle pieces that are attached to the rear bulkheads where
they will eventually be bolted to the horizontal stab. Question, are
the angles put in place while the skeleton is being done or after the
lower skins are on and the fuselage is upright?
To me it makes more sense to wait until the fuse is upright and it is
easier to get
at those locations to install the angles.
Don Mack
RV-6A finishing skeleton layout
donmack(at)flash.net
http://www.flash.net/~donmack/
________________________________________________________________________________
aol.com!Cafgef(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> I'm confused. How do you jump out of a RV? My RV6-A can't release the
> canopy because of the lift struts. And if it did release, it would probably
> decapitate me anyway.
Would the "gooseneck" hinges on an RV-6 prevent the canopy from
jettisoning? Perhaps the lift struts are meant to break away. Was the
canopy jettison feature designed before or after the lift strut
modification? Has a RV-6 ever jettisoned a canopy in flight?
The FARs require a parachute for aerobatics. Is this for solo flight as
well? They don't make any reference to whether you are flying an
aircraft that you might actually be able to get out of in an emergency.
Has anyone ever been violated for not wearing a parachute? Has an RV-6
ever had a structural airframe failure in flight?
Sorry about all the questions but the point of parachutes seems to bring
up these questions.
-Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich Propeller question |
| From: | tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com (John T. Craig-Stearman) |
Pull the power back during nose-low portions of the manuevers! Use
throttle control to keep the rpm below the limit (2600, I think.)
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com
writes:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> After checking out the senenich web site, I have a question for
>all of
> you who are using the O-320 prop. What's your experience
>performing
> aerobatics with this prop? Sensenich recommends against
>aerobatics
> due to the risk of overspeeding the prop. I'm looking forward to
>
> doing loops & rolls in my RV4 when it's done, and don't want to
>be
> limited by the propeller. Opinions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ted Boudreaux RV4
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John McMahon <rv6(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft oils |
Doug Rozendaal wrote:
>
> >
> >Listers,
> >
> >I have been on the list for a while and don't remember seeing any
> discussion
> >on using automotive oil in aircraft. I have tried to find any
> articals on
> >this but have been largely unsuccessfull.
> >
> >Is anyone using car oils in their RV's, If we shouldn't use them,
> why is
> >that. Can anyone enlighten me why aircraft oils are any better than
> car
> >oils, given that a VW or other aircooled car engines survive fine on
> car oil.
> >
> >Thanks in advance.
> >
> Joe,
>
> My name is Doug Rozendaal and I own and operate Petroblend
> Corp(www.petroblend.com), a lubircating oil blending company. We
> manufacture oils for automotive applications including cars, trucks,
> heavy
> duty off-highway, and agricultural applications.
>
> This my be alot.... more than you want to know, but you asked for
> it....
>
> Your presumption that aircraft oil is better that automotive products
> is
> false. There are only two approved milspec's for reciprocating
> aircraft oil
> on the market today. One is mineral oil (synthetic base stocks can
> meet
> this spec) and Ashless dispersant (synthetics can meet this as well)
> The
> mineral oil spec was released in WWII and remains essentially
> unchanged.
> The AD spec was released in the early '60's. Rest assured if the
> airlines
> were still operating recips we would have better oils for our
> aircraft.
>
> Modern automotive oils contain metalic additives to prevent oxidation,
>
> inhibit rust, and prevent wear. These are most often Zinc
> Dithiodiakylphosphate (ZDDP)and over-based sulfonates of calcium and
> magnesium. These metalic components are called detergents. Automotive
> oils
> also contain dispersants like aircraft oils, usually nitrogen based,
> but in
> much higher concentrations. Also included are Viscosity index
> improvers and
> pour point depressants. A heavy duty diesel engine oil (HDDO) can
> contain
> as much as 1% ash (metalic components) The new passenger car motor
> oils
> (PCMO) are API rated SJ. These oils have less ash, specifically
> phosphourus. This is because the OEM's believe that these will poison
>
> catalytic converters. These new SJ oils have considerably less
> antiwear
> protection than the SH and earlier oils. The car makers realize that
> the
> current engines are running consistently to 200000 miles and the
> warranty
> goes to 36000. The catatlytic carries a 50,000 mile warranty and soon
> will
> have a 100000 mile warranty and very often does not make it. Hence
> they are
> less concerned about wear than exhaust system performance.
>
> So much for the background,
>
> So why can't I use PCMO or HDDO in my airplane. Short answer, because
> the
> FAA says you can't. In experimentals you can. Will it work? Yes,
> with some
> caveats. If your engine burns oil the metalic detergents will form
> deposits
> when they burn. These deposits are most harmful in ring belt. The
> new SJ
> PCMO's with less ZDDP may be the best choice. The cam in your
> Lycoming
> would benefit very much from the ZDDP that is there though. The
> reason why
> the VW liked these oils is, those engines are tighter than your
> Lycoming.
> This is because when you pull the power back on your VW you slow down
> the
> fan and hence the air. When you put the nose down on your Lyc and are
> going
> 200 mph with the throttle closed you have to have enough clearance to
> keep
> the jug from grabbing the piston. None of these problems are not
> solveable
> but neither the military or the airlines care. They are the only
> groups
> with the clout or the money to push such a drive. Phillips tried an
> anti-wear oil with ZDDP called X/C-II. The FAA decreed that you had
> to have
> a 337 form to use it. The mechanics who, are not exactly open-minded
> blamed
> everything from fouled plugs to dead mags on the oil. The only group
> more
> hard headed than the mechanics is the pilots. The short story is that
> it
> was a huge public relations disaster. The product was probably good,
> in
> healthy tight engines, but you can bet your last penny that Phillips
> has no
> interest in going down that road again.
>
> Would I do it?
>
> I don't, I think I should, I too am a bit of a hard-head. If I had a
>
> Continental Voyager engine I think I would. I have considered making
> a
> product for my Mustang friends with RR Merlins. They really need it.
> But
> who will pay for the research, I need a Mustang and enough fuel to run
> it
> for 500 to 1000 hours. I will donate my time to fly it ;). Any
> takers.
>
> PS I do use multi-vis and would recommend it for nearly all
> applications.
> I have no spell checker and so the spelling is errant, and my own.
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
> dougr(at)netins.net
> www.petroblend.com/dougr
DOUG
Quick question please.Tell me about Mobil 1 in Aircraft/Car compare
differance??
Thanks in advance
John McMahon
Gallatin Tn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Mortimore <terry.mortimore(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | test - please ignore |
Terry Mortimore 2.7L Subaru RV-6A
38 Cartier St.
Sault Ste Marie terry.mortimore(at)sympatico.ca
Ontario Canada
P6B-3K2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
----------
> From: Grant E. Young <crl.nmsu.edu!gyoung(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: EGT Probes
> Date: Monday, May 26, 1997 10:57 AM
>
>
> Also, I am using an electronic tach (RMI monitor) so the tack drive
> output om my o-320-e2d goes unused. Do I need to put a cap on it? If
> so, what kind and where do I get it. It is right next to my VAC pump so
> there isn't much room (> 1/8 inch).
>
I did the same thing about tach drive. You really don't need to do
anything, but if you are concerned about drops of oil, an engine shop has
lots of those caps and will probably give you one for free. A.T.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | L & M Rowles <lmrowles(at)netspace.net.au> |
Would any person on the list be able to help me with Jon's Johanson's email
adress? Thanks in advance.
lmrowles(at)netspace.net.au
Les Rowles
Po Box 1895
Traralgon
Australia 3844
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sharlene Shipley or Bruce Knoll <snsbfk(at)mail.sage.net> |
| Subject: | Builders in Central Tx, RV6A |
Hi,
I am looking to contact 6A builders within a 30-40 mile radius of Temple,
TX. Plan to start a kit after Oshkosh and would like some company to share
the misery with.
Please reply to my e-mail, snsbfk(at)mail.sage.net
Bruce Knoll
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Darrell L. Anderson" <d.l.anderson(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Primers and Temperatures |
>I used a squirrel cage fan from an electric furnace. This is the kind of
>fan/motor combination that can move enough air to heat/cool an entire house.
>I mounted the fan on an outside wall of the basement/garage workshop. The
>fan moves so much air that, even on the slow setting, I find that my dogs
>'door' in the kitchen upstairs tends to hang about three inches open towards
>the inside of the house. God forbid I turn the fan on when a fire is going
>in the fireplace (guess how I learned that---).
This is the same setup I have, and it seems to have prevented AIDS
(Aircraft-Induced Divorce Syndrome) so far.
I find that I still must wait for reasonably warm outside air (>32 F), as the
house cools down
so much from the air being sucked in that my wife complains. The furnace will
run almost
constantly, and one concern is that the fan back-drafts the gas furnace and water
heater flues.
Also, the fireplace will draw air down the flue, and blow ash out the front if
the damper is open.
On the Plus side, it sure cools the house down fast on a hot summer night.
I have a framed plastic sheeted room built in a corner of the basement, and the
squirrel cage
blower blows INTO the room, which is vented through louvers to the outside. This
keeps paint
from building up in the blower, and puts the fan motor outside of the flammable
vapor area.
A furnace filter box covers the blower to keep most shop dust out of the paint
booth. This works
quite well, and the pressurized booth leaks very little back into the basement.
What does leak is
picked up by the blower intake and pushed back into the booth. I rarely have to
run the blower
much over half speed to keep the shop fume-free. The big parts that won't fit
through
the door have to wait for outdoor painting.
For my own breathing, I use a Hobby-aire turbine respirator.
Darrell Anderson
RV-4, wings
Montana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com> |
(Snip)
> I don't know if the oil filter, etc., will fit, but you might have
> problems fitting and mounting the hanging rudder pedals. I would (and
> did (oops)) flip it to the proper position.
>
> - Brian J. Carrigan RV-6 ad infinitum
>
> (Snip)
>If anyone has an engine hung with a constant speed gov.,
>
Thanks to one and all on the help. I cut and fitted a new box yesterday. I
decided on a square box rather than making another sloped type.
Why...mostly so I couldn't get in back wards :^) The other reasons is it
was easier, it is bigger and I saw a couple others like it. George O. has
it on his airplanes I believe. And it wasn't as painfull as I conjured up
my head, took about 4 hrs from start to finish.
Thanks again.
Have A Stupendous Day!
Denny Harjehausen, retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com
RV-6/ Fuselage
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Fitzgerald <theredbaron(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: countersinking or dimpling .032 skins |
I also watched the videos and he dimpled all the HS skins except a few holes
that couldnt be reached??? What gives - I got the pre-punched videos how
'bout you?
Talk Soon,
Dave
-----------------------------------------------------------------
RV-8 Builder Serial #80333
-----------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | catbird(at)taylortel.com (TTC Carroll A. Bird) |
Denny Harjehausen wrote:
>
>
> Could anyone shed some information on the reserved "N" number process?
>
Danny:
I called the FAA in Oklahoma City and talked to the lady that
reserved numbers for people. She asked what numbers i would like to
have. I told her that I would like any two digit number ending with
Charlie Bravo. This was in Aug. '95. She reserved N26CB for me and had
me send $10 for the first year. There really wasn't any hassel.
However, there is more to the story.
About two months after I had gotten my conformation for this
number, a lady called me representing a title company. She wanted to
know if I would relinquish my claim to this number. I declined to do so.
She hung up and I figured that was that. But no, the next day a lady
called me from the Cessna Aircraft Co. wanting to know if I would give
up this number. I declined to do so again. She hung up, but the story
continues. The next day a man called me from Cessna wanting to know the
same thing. Now I am really getting to the point where I want to know
what is going on. The truth comes out. It seems that Cessna had applied
for this number just about the time that I did, but I had beaten them to
the draw so to speak. They had proceeded on the assumption that they had
the number, and had painted it on the nacelles of a Citation. Needless
to say the paint had already dried.
Now this man at Cessna wanted to know if I would talk to their
client, who was buying this airplane. I said sure. I hadn't better
mention any names, but this man called me in about ten minutes. To make
a long story a little shorter, he offered me $1000 for this number,which
I accepted. Cessna got me another number and paid the yearly fee to the
FAA. I now have N311CB. All the two digit numbers were taken.
So, just call your Freindly Aviation Ass'n and request a number.
It's easier than you think.
Carroll Bird, Buffalo Gap, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft oils |
| From: | ab6a(at)juno.com (ALLAN E POMEROY) |
(joehine) writes:
>
>Listers,
>
>I have been on the list for a while and don't remember seeing any
>discussion
>on using automotive oil in aircraft. I have tried to find any
>articals on
>this but have been largely unsuccessfull.
>
>Is anyone using car oils in their RV's, If we shouldn't use them, why
>is
>that. Can anyone enlighten me why aircraft oils are any better than
>car
>oils, given that a VW or other aircooled car engines survive fine on
>car oil.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>
Joe,
Shell Oil makes a video that can be purchased from Sporty's for
$14.95 that talks about aircraft oil. One of the people interviewed is
Victor Sloan, from Victor Aviation, a well known engine shop. The tape
answers the question about using automotive oil in aircraft. Three
things are possible that can cause problems. Valves sticking,
pre-ignition, and excessive bearing wear. Automotive oils also don't
contain the approved additives that Lycoming recommends.
Allan Pomeroy CNY
AB6A(at)juno.com
HS laying out rivet holes
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Artificial Horizons |
A few days ago there was a positn about military surplus AHs--28 volt.
Anybody ever find out from where?
Jon
bcg007(at)aol.com
RV6 wings-30%
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Rozendaal <dougr(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft oils |
>
> DOUG
>Quick question please.Tell me about Mobil 1 in Aircraft/Car compare
>differance??
> Thanks in advance
> John McMahon
> Gallatin Tn
The Mobil 1 has synthetic base oils called Polyalphaoelifins (PAO's). The
additive package in them have the same differences that you would find
between any other aircraft vs auto oils, primarily metalic detergents.
looking for an RV-4.. still..
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)netins.net
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft oils |
<< Their conclusions were : cheap oil worked
as well as expensive oil, and there was no deterioration in the oil at
10,000 miles. >>
Usually there is not a problem with the oil "deteriorating." More typically,
the oil just gets alot of dirt in it. Here are some thoughts on oil,
however:
Oils (petroleum based) have additives in them that accomplish several
objectives:
Detergents: just as the name says, they clean
Dispersants: keep dirt emulsified so it won't deposit onto the engine parts
Viscosity improvers (VI's): maintains a sufficient viscosity level across
wide temperature bands. Helps overcome the fact that petroleum has light and
heavy molecular chains in them, each with different viscosities. VI's bond
molecular chains together to get the right viscosity.
Oils break down when any of these chemicals break down and fail to do ther
jobs. When VIs break down (shear), the oil has insufficient viscosity to
protect the engine (usually at lower temperatures).
Aeroshell was one of the first aircraft oils to use a synthetic cut in the
oil. Synthetics offer the advantage of consistent viscosities across wide
temperature ranges without additives. They, unlike petroleum counterparts,
have no heavy and light components (different molecule lengths) and tend to
provide consistent film thicknesses. Light components of petroleum oils can
also boil away in high temperature engines, leaving heavier, thicker, parts
behind. This can manifest itself as sludge if left long enough, or just
higher viscosity oil.
Far and away the most significant problem with oils, however, is dirt. Most
dirt gets in through the air system and engine combustion by-products. Most
dirt that causes engine wear is (I'm remembering here) 4-20 microns big.
Unfortunately, most oil filters filter to 25 microns--clearly insufficient
for all but the most severe particles. Traditional oil filters can't filter
smaller particles because a better filter would require greater pressure drop
and restricted oil flow. That's bad.
In auto engines, many (self included) install bypass oil filtration systems
that filters dirt to 1 micron by diverting a small flow around the full flow
filter, through a high efficiency filter and to the sump.
Interestingly, the Thunder Mustang may have one of these installed. Note the
"Amsoil" decal on the cowl. Amsoil is a long standing (I think about 30+
years) supplier of synthetics to the jet engine market and sells synthetics
to the auto world as well. (jets, because of high temps, must use
synthetics). They also make the bypass filtration systems. It will be
interesting to find out what oil system it uses in that Falconer 12.
Bottom line: dirt is the culprit, not oil capability. Use a bypass filter to
extend life. If you extend the life of a petroleum oil, then watch out for
VI shear (breakdown) that will immediately change the oil's viscosity.
Synthetics are excellent long life oils with few of the molecular drawbacks.
100% synthetics can affect engine oil seal life, however.
Or change your oil frequently and don't worry about the dirt.
Jon Scholl
bcg007(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Primers and Temperatures |
I set up a paint booth in my basement so that I took relatively warm air from
the house and filtered it into the booth. The booth was set up so that I
could exhaust the fumes out of a door, but a window would work equally well.
I used three brushless fans from K-Mart in a frame to exhaust the air out of
the house. Only one fan would be required if you use a window. Be sure to
block off the parts of the window that don't get covered by the fan or air
from outside will get in. Take a peice of cardboard and cut out a circle the
size of the fan blades and tape it to the downwind side of the fan. That
will keep the air going out without letting it come back in at the corners of
the fan box. It is also a good idea to filter the outgoing air before it
gets to the fan so that you do not get paint overspray on the outside of your
house. The booth was made of heavy clear plastic stapled to the rafters of
the basement. The filters for the inlet and outlet are furnace filters. The
inlet one was set into a frame that sets on the floor. The plastic was
stapled to this frame to make it air tight around the frame. I taped one to
the fan frame for the outlet. The plastic was taped to the floor with duct
tape. A "door" to the booth was a place where the plastic overlapped about
six feet and was held down by being stapled to a board that held it in place
at the bottom. When painting, I turned on the fans at high speed and created
a vacuum in the booth that kept any fumes from getting to the house. After
painting, I set the fans to low and let the parts dry overnight. You can use
an electric heater to warm the booth after the mist has disipated. Make sure
that you have a good NIOSH approved respirator when you are in the booth.
Using this setup, you can paint anytime of the year. It will raise your
heating bill a bit but it is worth it.
Jim Cone, RV-6A flying fantastic
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Jettison |
>Would the "gooseneck" hinges on an RV-6 prevent the canopy from
>jettisoning? Perhaps the lift struts are meant to break away. Was the
>canopy jettison feature designed before or after the lift strut
>modification? Has a RV-6 ever jettisoned a canopy in flight?
>-Glenn Gordon
Glenn, The jettison mechanism came before the struts. I don't even want to
think what a mess it would be to jettison the canopy with the struts still
attached. If I were riding a 'chute during testing or accro, I'd remove the
struts. As far as I know, no one has jettisoned a canopy in flight.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)navix.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Elevator skin thickness question... |
I recently visited an RV-4 owner who had a suggestion about the elevator skin
thickness. Apparently, the 0.016" skin is known to form cracks at the
trailing edge about 2/3 of the way out. His suggestion was to use 0.020"
skins for the elevator instead.
My questions are as follows: Are there any other RV's flying that have
experienced this problem? Does anyone have any thoughts concerning this mod?
Steve Bygren
RV-6... preview plans in hand...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry W. Johnson" <larryj(at)cetlink.net> |
Glastar-List ,
Kitfox List
| Subject: | Re: GLASTARNET: Switch on Turn Coordinator? |
Larry W. Johnson, wrote:
I can't tell from the address's just who posted this question but it
does warrant additional comments.
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> /One question. Should the electric Turn Coordinator
> /have its own off and on switch, or should it always
> /go on with the Master?
>
> Never seen a reason to turn it off. The T/C is
> sort of like audio amplifiers, Hobbs meters,
> engine instruments, etc. They should be on ANY
> time the system is powered up . . .
True the T/C is normally on whenever the Master is on but there are
exceptions,A pilot performing aerobatics will usually turn of the T/C
while performing to cut down on wear and tear from excess G-Forces.
> /I am using fuse blocks, so it can be turned off by
> /pulling the correct fuse in the Vital power panel.
>
> Arrrgghhhh! you're going to fiddle with fuses
> in flight!!!!! . . . . I gotta go get a asprin!
True,not necessary but I don't think it will give you or anyone else a
headache.With 3000 plus hours I have changed a few fuses and reset as
many circuit breakers.Sometimes you just can't wait until you get the
bird on the ground.
Larry Johnson - 5287
> Regards,
May 15, 1997 - May 26, 1997
RV-Archive.digest.vol-cw