RV-Archive.digest.vol-cz
June 09, 1997 - June 18, 1997
but a one-wire device . . . . got no idea what it is.
/What of the import alternators with built in regulators ? =
/Are these safe to use in an aircraft ?
No. There's no way to control a runaway alternator from
the outside . . . well, I take that back. You CAN install
a series contactor (about the same size as your battery =
contactor) in the alternator b-lead. Ppower it from the
alternator "field" switch and breaker. Use a crowbar
ov module to pry it open in case of alternator runaway.
=
I prefer to see the alternator modified to accept an external
regulator.
Regards,
Bob . . . =
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DoOOo=3D(_)=3DoOOo=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Stick Not Hitting RV-6A Panel |
--> RV-List message posted by: "les williams"
Tim, that doesn't seem right to me either. Assuming that the slider panel is
in the same relative location as the tip-up, the stick should come pretty
close. Did you start with the elevator in the neutral postion and the stick
approximately five degrees forward of the center bulkhead angle? With the
stick all the way back, does the forward elevator push tube have approximately
1/8" clearance from the 604 bulkhead? Are you achieving the minmum degrees
of elevator travel? If your answer is yes to these questions, then I hope
that someone else has some clue, 'cause I don't.
Best wishes,
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/N24LW (res)/finish kit
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Tim Lewis
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 1997 12:50 PM
Subject: RV-List: Stick Not Hitting RV-6A Panel
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a@norway-c.it.earthlink.net>
On my RV-6A (slider) the stick doesn't hit the instrument panel when
the stick is pushed full forward. The stick stops almost 2" aft of
the vertical plane of the instrument panel. Is this normal? Did I
build something wrong?
I gather from Van's comment on the last page of the last RVator, and
from some comments on the list, that my situation may not be normal.
How far forward do the the sticks go on other builders' RV-6s to get
full down elevator deflection?
Thanks,
Tim
---------------------
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or
timrv6a(at)iname.com
-----------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <RNuckolls(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | EXP-Bus - Compendium |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
A compilation and observations on the dialog . . . =
list: Thank you for your response to Mr. Nuckolls' review of your produc=
t. =
list: I am sure I speak for most of the 700 members of the list when I s=
ay it =
list: was appreciated. I predict Nuckolls will like it because of its s=
pecificity
Indeed I do appreciate it. It allows us the opportunity to discuss
features and options and come to some common understandings. I think
what follows will illustrate and bring out some of the variances in
our perceptions. =
list: I enjoyed reading the parts of your response which were directed a=
t =
list: defending your product and explaining possible misunderstandings. =
=
list: The parts where you attempted to undermine Mr. Nuckolls' knowledge=
=
list: and credibilty were at best lame and at worst embarrassing (for yo=
u).
=
Gently . . gently . . . every one of us can remember a time when we
suffered from hoof-in-mouth disease. I still recall several instances =
where
a favorite uncle of mine (an electrical engineer and mentor of my very=
early years) who could get me to expound at length on something I thou=
ght
I knew and understood and then melt me to the ground with a single que=
stion.
He never took a whack at me directly but by exploring what I knew with=
his own
questions, I wound up whacking myself!
list: I sincerely hope you can find a way to communicate with each other=
=
list: in some other way than on this list as far as your emotions are co=
ncerned. =
list: As far as the product reviews and responses... Keep em coming!!
I'll suggest that this list is precisely the place where it should tak=
e place.
It's akin to conduting potentially charged conversation in a public re=
staurant
over lunch. By remembering where we are and who is watching, we can f=
ocus
much better on the knowlege to be shared and it tends to keep our emot=
ions
in check. People that are put off or bored with all this can simply DE=
LETE.
list: I'm about to order breaker/toggle switch combo's to save some spa=
ce. =
list: Is there any good reason to avoid these, other than the fact if th=
e =
list: switch wears out you also lose a breaker?
Very germane to this topic. There's a subtle attractivness to switch b=
reakers
but consider this. One of the goals in architecturing power distribut=
ion
is to minimize the size and number of bus bar material. The feed =
from battery to breakers is generally short and goes to a single patch=
of breakers (or fuses) on the right side of the panel. If your circui=
t =
protection includes switch/breakers and those switches are on the left=
side =
of the panel, you've effectively created a second breaker-patch on the=
other =
side as well. The place were switch/breakers make the best sense might=
be
if they were grouped with there other breakers in a single array.
list: . . . The Exp-Bus is not directly connected to the battery. The=
starter =
list:contactor coil lead does feed back to the panel to disable the avio=
nics bus =
list: during cranking. Direct connection is only mentioned in the insta=
llation =
list: manual as an option. Perhaps it should not be mentioned, but we a=
re =
list: homebuilders and should capable of making our own decisions and fo=
rming =
list: our own opinions given the facts.
Which is exactly what I hope were doing here . . . gathering facts. I=
'm
very interested in the wiring scenario where a long, always hot feed t=
o
a battery master on the EXP-Bus is recommendable and why. If it's an
"option" I presume it has merit under some condtion as yet unknown to =
me.
list: Bob is not the only electronics expert in the world. There are th=
ousands =
list: of us. Can it really be that Bob is the only one that's right? F=
rankly, =
list: I'm getting a little tired of reading about how stupid the rest of=
us are.
There's certainly no intent on my part (nor do I sense it from anyone =
else)
to make anyone feel "stupid". As you're about to read, there are some =
variances in understanding that beg further discussion . . . . .
jh: As the owner of Control Vision and the designer of the EXP BUS, let =
me =
jh: respond to Mr. Nuckles criticism(s) of the product . . many of his c=
oncerns =
jh: are based on his misunderstanding of the product, and perhaps a bit =
of =
jh: "not invented here"...
I don't think so but I'm pleased that you are here and willing to join=
us . . .
jh: There is no reason to have a long hot battery line in any EXP instal=
lation.
jh: While this is one option for installing the EXP - this is by no mean=
s the =
jh: only option . . . =
This was an impression I had from another list member's description of=
a "battery
master relay" mounted on the etched circuit board remote from the batt=
ery. If
this "option" is described in your installation manuals, then under wh=
at
conditions would you recommend that your customer elect to use the opt=
ion?
jh: Most people are installing the EXP with a master solenoid, =
jh: particularly in aircraft that are primarily cross country machines. =
=
jh: When installed in this configuration, the starter should be connecte=
d to the =
jh: switched side of the solenoid, per our installation manual. His poi=
nt =
jh: regarding the starter solenoid sticking is a minor one, since the st=
arter =
jh: is rarely (NEVER?) engaged inflight, this reduces this extremely rem=
ote =
jh: scenario to more of an irritation, than a safety issue. =
Never said the starter was engaged in flight. I and others on the lis=
t have
cited numerous instances of starter contactor welding. The potential
for grief even when not airborne is apparent. An uncontrollable star=
ter
circuit failure has a lot of potential for expensive if not hazardous=
damage.
me earlier: The self-reseting nature of poly-fuses can hide a latent fa=
ilure; =
you can be suffering intermittant short that you don't catc=
h
because the poly-switch resets when the short clears. =
jh: "The self-resetting nature of the polyfuses" is actually ideal for u=
se
jh: in aircraft. Once tripped, they will remain tripped until the load =
on the =
jh: circuit is reduced virtually to zero. They will only reset in a cir=
cuit =
jh: that is unloaded.
Which is exactly what the "flying" short can do . . . short, intermitt=
ant
draws of heavy current interspersed with periods of no draw . . . =
jh: . . . . . . . . . . If an intermittent short shuts down the com rad=
io, =
jh: the remaining load from the radio will keep the poly-fuse tripped, =
jh: preventing the circuit from cycling on and off. To get the PF to res=
et, one =
jh: must TURN OFF THE RADIO. Mr Nuckolls obviously does not understand=
=
jh: how the devices operate. -
I think I do. I was heading the avionics/electrical engineering group =
on the
Gates-Piaggio GP-180 project about 12 years ago when Jim West (local r=
ep
for RayChem) brought me the first samples of polyfuses. We looked at =
them
carefully and with a great deal of interest but unable at that time to=
find
an application on the airframe (they were already INSIDE some products=
we
purchased). As recent as one year ago, I participated in a dicussion a=
t
Raytheon (Beech) where the polyfuse was again being considered as a vi=
able
subsititute for tradional circuit protection technologies. To date, I=
'm aware
of no application of polyfuses at the airframe power distribution leve=
l in =
certified ships . . . and they HAVE been and continue to be considered=
. . .
The latent failure I'm refering to is any momentary short that will op=
en a
fuse or breaker in milliseonds and thereby announce it's presense imme=
diately
so that investigation and repairs can be made before it happens again.=
There
are scenarios where the failure can remain hidden because you have no =
way
to know when a polyfuse has been called upon to act once the fault cle=
ars.
=
me earlier: One version of the EXP-Bus installation uses the terminals =
of the
switches to suport the etched circuit board. This adds mech=
anical
stresses to the switch terminals for which they were not de=
signed. =
Slight mis-alignment of the row of switches would aggravate=
the =
condition . . . .
rh: The installation manual advises against mounting the EXP board by t=
he =
rh: switch bushings. The proper method is to support the PC board by t=
he =
rh: mounting holes, not by the switches. To this end, we now offer pre-=
stamped =
rh: mounting gussets that allow one to quickly install the unit properl=
y in most =
rh: panels. We now also offer rocker switches for a more stylish insta=
llation.
Correct me if I'm wrong but even if the board is mounted by supports =
to the
board at the corners, how are stresses to the switch contacts relieve=
d when
the builder drills his holes with centers having less precision than =
the tooling
that sets centers of switch attachments to the board? =
I'm not sure I visualize the recommended support scheme. If the switc=
hes
are left on the edge of the card, does the builder then fabricate a s=
helf
extending back from the panel to support the board?
me earlier: The last time I looked at an EXP-Bus and it's competitors=
at
OSH last year, they were both dropping wires directly to pads on =
a p.c. board with no insulation support. After going to the trouble
to use PIDG terminals on the rest of your wiring, it seems prudent
that insulation support in the rest of the system would be nice.
rh: He is simply wrong here. All connections to the bus should be made =
using =
rh: terminals. We do not advocate "dropping wires" directly to the PC =
board.
I'm not speaking of installer supplied connections, I'm talking about=
wires
on your product which are soldered directly into the board with no in=
sulation
support. I looked at three different versions of this type of produc=
t at
OSH and I'm not sure that the EXP-Bus had this feature . . . I know t=
here's
another pre-assembled bus-switch-breaker product popular with the
canard-pusher folk that IS wiring intensive and suffers the problem. =
If indeed =
the EXP-Bus does not use wires in this way I may have confused it wit=
h the
other products . . . my apologies.
rh: Most of Mr. Nuckolls objection to the product seems to be that it d=
oes not =
rh: save (much) time, money, or weight. For someone of his background =
and =
rh: knowledge, his assertion is probably right. However, most builders=
lack =
rh: his expertise and experience in electrical system design and implim=
entation, =
rh: and will have more trouble with a "conventional" system than he wou=
ld have.
But Jay, I'm here to offer all of the support for the uninitiated as =
my talents
and spare time will permit (along with a lot of other folk who have
accumulated no small amount of knowlege and experience) . . . that's =
what this
list is all about. I'm intently interested in your evaluation as to =
where any =
time is saved (assuming one remote mounts the EXP-Bus). My preceptio=
n is that =
the builder has to install almost exactly the same number of wire seg=
ments and
crimp as many terminals as either switch/fuse or switch/breaker insta=
llations =
we've been comparing. And depending on your reply to my earlier query=
, the =
builder may have to fabricate a supporting shelf if he/she wishes to =
keep the =
switch/board assembly intact?
rh: I invite ay EXP users to comment on this, as they are in a better p=
osition =
rh: to know than either myself, or Mr. Nuckolls. . . . The EXP product =
is an time =
rh: saving device that is flexible enough to accomodate the needs of v=
irtually =
rh: all RV's, Kitfoxes, Glasstars and similar aircraft. =
Time saving over a switch/breaker installation, you bet! See my post =
of
last night. A number of builder's have shared their experiences . . =
=2E
some have installed a variety of system configurations and are in a p=
osition =
to personally compare the differences but they've not spoken to them
specifically as yet.
rh: Our feedback from customers is that the board saves them time, both=
in the =
rh: installation and in the planning stages of their electrical systems=
=2E . . =
rh . . . . . . It is true that the EXP does not solve all of t=
heir =
rh: problems, but it does solve ALMOST all of their problems.
But what is their basis for comparison? If they're mostly first time =
builders
even trivial "problems" can seem huge. It's discussions like these th=
at put
problems in perspective. This dialog may be little more than an intel=
lectual =
excercise for those of us who've made lifetime careers of this activi=
ty.
I'm trying to maintain an awareness that a lot of folk are going to r=
ead these
words looking for guidance in making their own decisions.
Kindest regards,
Bob . . . =
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DoOOo=3D(_)=3DoOOo=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <RNuckolls(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EXP-Bus Safety? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
/I did not see Mr Humbard flaming anyone, he was defending =
/his product as he has a right to do, after all there has been =
/allot of negative posts here about the EXP-Bus by Mr Nuckolls. =
/I appreciate all of the good information Bob posts here but I do =
/get a feeling that he feels if it is not done his way it is wrong. =
I don't think Mr. Humbard was flaming anyone either . . . and
I'm sorry if anyone get the impression that I'm saying my
way is the only way. I hang out on lots of lists, publish
how-to documents for over 1,500 subscribers, write regularly
for peer reviewed publications and work directly with over 40
builders on their projects. I've worked in the certified world
of aviation for over 35 years. "My" way doesn't originate from
me . . . it's a compilation of experiences and associations
with a lot of sources.
One of the disciplines I was expected to master in my professional
capacity was the ability to identify, sort and weigh facts.
Words should be used in their most concise forms . . . sometimes
people's lives depend on our ability to communicate. So when
someone says or writes, "this is better than that," I am immediately
suspicious. I've been trained to ask and hopefully understand
in what ways one thing is better than another. I'd like to see
this skill be acquired by everyone who has a decision to make
concerning health and welfare of his bod and his airplane.
/I like reading about other ways to get a job done then I can make =
/up my own mind about which way I want to do it.
Then I'll suggest that there's no disagreement here. =
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <RNuckolls(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Nuisance trips by design? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
/I too have wondered about the statement "Designed with Nuisance Breake=
rs."
/I will wait with you for the explanation.
I think I said, "with breaker installations designed to nuisance trip.=
" =
Here's the rational behind that statment:
Dozens of folk who've attended my forums and seminars have attested t=
o the =
same experience I've had with contemporary power distribution systems=
in light airplanes. Master switch left on and battery is flat on a co=
ld =
morning and you start the airplane with ground power. You're ready to=
lauch into the clouds so EVERYTHING gets turned on for departure. A c=
old
alterntor will put out MUCH more . . . as much as 10-15% more than a =
hot
one so as you take off, the alternator is willing to power up the who=
le
airplane -AND- try to recharge a flat battery. A 60 amp breaker may =
carry
70 amps for some time . . . or if it's an old breaker and drifted dow=
n a
little, it trips some time after departure. I've never flown a stock=
production airplane with a low bus volts warning light so the flight
generally proceeds "normally" until things start dying . . . which is=
n't
very long after because the battery never got fully recharged.
Sometimes, resetting the breaker gets things back up and running and =
if
you've punched into the clear above the clouds, this flight and subse=
quent
flights don't experience the problem again . . . for awhile.
/I do however have most of the facts concerning the 50 amp breakers use=
d in =
/many Cessna and Piper Aircraft.There were a lot of problems with these=
breakers =
/tripping for no apparent reason.I have personally verified this condit=
ion =
/on dozens of aircraft.
/The one main reason that a lot of folks were upset is the fact that ne=
ither =
/Cessna,Piper,or the manufacturer of the breaker would not accept the =
/responcibility for the defect and had to pay for the replacement.
This is the down-side of regulation. If, for example, under part 43 r=
ules
we were automatically allowed to upsize any circuit in the airplane a=
s
long as the wire and breaker size rules were observed, a larger circu=
it
installation would fix the problem. Some breakers are indeed on the =
"weak"
side and tend to become nuisance trippers . . . especially the larger=
sizes.
Fortunately, they seem to drift downward instead of upward although I=
've
heard tales on Beech's piston line that they've discovered breakers t=
hat
refused to trip. I've asked to receive such a breaker for evaulation=
but
haven't seen one yet . . . this may be legend.
But consider the manufacturer's dilemma. The rules of conduct under =
Parts Manufacturing Authority requires a manufacturer to report and =
describe corrective action for any defects in design and manufacturin=
g
of it's products or componenents used in it's products. If the break=
er
problem can be classified random failure or end-of-service-life there=
's
no reason to react. If a manufacturer were to acknowlege the "defect=
"
then flags go up all over the place. Many times, they're unnoticed bu=
t even
trivial problems can become mountains of paperwork and associated exp=
ense
if some rule-book wielding do-gooder in the FAA really wants to look =
good
for his boss.
The very rules that were set in place to "protect" the unwary flying
consumer are the very rules that guarantee the same consumer has to
put up with problems that were literally designed into the airplane.
/OK Bob, you've got my attention. I agree that a properly designed elect=
rical =
/system should not cause fuses, or breakers, to trip unless a fault cond=
ition =
/arose . . . . . . . Now, I give you the opportunity to educate us=
! HOW =
/(so we won't do the same thing), and WHY (to expand our understanding a=
nd convince =
/us not to do it), would a commercial aircraft manufacturer DESIGN nuisa=
nce =
/tripping of breakers into an aircraft electrical system? =
Well, they didn't do it on purpose. It's interesting to have observed =
the
evolution of light plane systems design from close range . . . in many=
cases
I've worked directly with the people who made many of those decisions.=
I hope that it's VERY CLEAR that the reason these conditions exist on
certified ships is that our crystal ball wasn't all that good 30 years=
ago and in hindsight, it would most likely be different today. But the=
consequences of bringing such problems and their solutions to light in=
today's economic conditions in our litigious society have ramification=
s
far beyond the effort required to simply fix the problem.
As builders of the finest, most modern single engine aircraft ever flo=
wn,
we are able to enjoy and take advantage of our hindsight; both in curr=
ent
designs and from experiences past. If a problem hops up, we can fix i=
t
right now and freely share the knowlege with others without having to
run it past the engineering, marketing, finance and legal departments =
or be =
harrassed by government for any reason. So, it's not a matter of of =
convincing anyone how NOT to do it, it's more a task of convincing peo=
ple =
that no matter what proplems are presented, it can be fixed with no fa=
nfare
or great expense. The difficult part is evaluating our collective
experiences with certified ships for applicability to the experimental=
airplane. The overwhelming experience base in the former can make us
unjustifiably fearful of the latter.
Regards,
Bob . . . =
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DoOOo=3D(_)=3DoOOo=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com =
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <RNuckolls(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Manual battery switch? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
FROM: Robert L. Nuckolls, III, 72770.552
DATE: 6/8/97 9:05 PM
Re: Battery Master switch
/I have been monitoring the discussion about the master switch. =
/My thought is that if the battery is to be mounted aft of the =
/firewall but close to the panel why not use a mechanical switch =
/for the master function. I think the switch could be within =
/6 to 12" form the battery. I worry about this distance. =
/I think the high amperage battery isolation switches are available. =
/What about this idea?
This can be done. Speed shops stock the mandatory battery
switch for most auto racing venues. The biggest concern
I have for the independent, manual switch is that it becomes
possible to run the alternator without a battery on line.
Some alternator/regulator combinations are very unstable
without the stabilizing effects of a battery . . . even a tired =
one.
The battery master wired to come on and off WITH the alternator
field negates this concern.
Regards,
Bob . . . =
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DoOOo=3D(_)=3DoOOo=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <RNuckolls(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EXP-Bus Safety? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>The fragile, =
germanium transistors of the time would come out of saturation
in the power supplies, go into second breakdown and voila, "my
starter just killed my radio."
It took us years later to understand the phenomenon and in the
mean time, DO-160 says you'll design a radio to take anything
an airplane will throw at it. Germanium has long since been =
replaced by more rugged silicon. Radio manufacturers have become
a lot smarter. Alternator runaway overvoltage is the only
"gremlin" left to guard against.<
/Bob, does this mean we don't need an Avionics Master, that we can =
/just leave all the avionics on all the time and let the Master Switch =
/turn everything on and off?
Essentially, yes. Here's a copy of a thread I participated
in a short time ago:
-I always like hearing the opinions of the experts in the =
-field and I certainly weigh them more heavily than my own, =
-but I'm wary of generalities in a field where every airplane =
-is as unique as a fingerprint.
But it shouldn't be. It's only because of the gross ignorance of
both "certified" and un-certified mechanics and pilots that
we are cast adrift in a world that's firmly locked to the
laws of physics. It's been said in more than one judiciary
that "igornance of the law is no excuse." The same could be
said of operation and ownership of complexe machines. It's
our ignorance that lets others justify their own as well.
=
-As I said, the master switch is just insurance. I'd be willing to =
-take on insurance in other ways. Suppose I went up to Bob Nuckolls =
-and said:
- "I've got a 20 year old airplane. I've only had it worked
- on at FAA certified shops but the previous owner was a do-it-yours=
elf'er
- who I found out didn't really know what it was doing. I don't
- know anything about the other previous owners. Anyway, I've got l=
ots
- of expensive electronics in it now and I plan to buy new fancy =
- gadgets in future. I'd like to leave all the electonics turned
- on when I start and stop the engine. I'd like to buy insurance fr=
om
- you to cover any failures in those electronics due to
- transient voltages."
I've never said that one should as a matter of common practice, leave=
all their radios on while cranking an engine. Why not leave the
landing light and pitot heat on too? How about strobes and nav
lights? By the way, strobe lights have much the same power supplies
in them as the first hybrid vacuum tube/solid state radios of the
60's. Many instructors suggest that strobes SHOULD be on before
cranking an engine as additional warning to bystanders that a
prop is about to turn. None the less, we don't seem to worry about
strobes, turn-coordinators, d.c. gyros with built in inverters,
audio amplifiers that are hot anytime the bus is up, etc. What makes=
these devices "immune" while we still worry about the radios?
"Insurance" is for those who have no control over aspects of their
environment. This is one environment over which we are advised =
to have a great deal of control. If you've purchased an airplane
about which you have doubts or concerns, what good is it to have
and avionics master to "protect" radios when there may be other
problems that will put the whole airplane in the dark?
-How much do you suppose he'll charge me to cover my 10-15k worth of =
-radios and navigation equipment? If he'll cover my airplane, =
-sight unseen, for zero dollars, then I know that he truly believes =
-that master switches are unnecessary.
What "insurance" does the master switch offer? All the airplanes
I fly are rentals. I can't count the number of times I've crawled
into an airplane and found the avionics master already on from
which I would deduce that the last pilot didn't follow checklist
procedures. If one chooses to ignore procedures, then 10 avionics
master switches won't insure anything . . . =
-What do you think he would say?
Avionics master switches are still single points of failure for
ALL radios that receive power through the switch. It's existance
in the system increases complexity and therefore increases
probability of failure in that path. If one is really concerned
about gremlins in the system, there are modern spike supressors
that will absolutely guarantee that no voltage above or below
some value can exist on the bus. Further, these devices are not
in series with critical power paths and therefore put no stress
on the reliability equation. Back when the well-rounded airplane
had 8 radios in it, the avonics master switch had a modicum of
convenience associated with it. Most of the airplanes I fly today
seldom have more than 3 radios and they ALL have panel mounted
controls. I look at that avionics master and wonder, "is this
the day it's over-center spring is going to break?"
When amateur builders use my power distribution diagrams to wire
their airplanes, an ESSENTIAL bus is wired with two independend
power paths. If the builder so chooses, he certainly may put his
avionics master in series with the normal feed path and I don't
twist his arm because he has a backup power path. However, because
he is the builder and ultimate user of the machine, I strongly
encourage him to consider and understand what all the parts are
for and how they might affect the utility of his airplane. The
easiest rule to adopt in system design is keep it simple, work
to reduce total parts count . . . especially in series with
power paths you'd like to have confidence in. The avionics
master is amoung the first things to come out.
If you can find one reference in the installation manual of a modern=
radio to an avionics master switch, I'd like to see it. I wrote to
Terra about 5 years ago and asked why they suggested one. The answer
was, "we thought everyone wanted to have one." Then I asked if they'=
d
tested their products for compliance with RTCA specification DO-160
for spike and brownout immunity and the answer was, "yes". A few
years later, I noted the deletion of an avionics master switch
reference from their books. Has anyone else see this in print
anywhere else? I've been building to Do-160 requirments for over
20 years and about everyone else I know has been also. It's so
easy to comply with today, anyone who builds a device that has to
hide behind a master avionics switch should be ashamed of himself!
Regards,
Bob . . . =
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DoOOo=3D(_)=3DoOOo=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gusndale(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: EXP-Bus Safety? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gusndale(at)aol.com
Bumflyer does not speak for me either. I appreciate Mr. Nuckolls input
and expertise on many subjects. I also appreciated Mr. Humbard's response
regarding his product, the EXP-Bus. I did not consider either of them to be
innapropriate. An open discussion of ideas, experiences, products, and
opinions related to building RVs is what I value about the RV-list.
Both Mr. Nuckolls and Mr. Humbard have offered useful facts and
information as well as their points of view, all of which have been of
interest to me. Disagreeing with each other is not the same as "flaming".
As for me, let me hear people express differing opinions and the
reasoning behind them. It helps me to make my own choices in a more informed
way
Dale Wotring
Vancouver,WA
RV6A (still finishing wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text
| From: | "Knut Michalsen" <Knut.Michalsen(at)riksarkivet.dep.telemax.no> |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Knut Michalsen"
><< adapt a car filter >>
>I've heard that car filters will not hold up under the vibration and
>pressure. Can anyone confirm or deny?
>Gene cafgef(at)aol.com
Now hear this (True story)
Build yourself a Lancair. Buy the hottest 0-320 around (195 Hp). Initial test
top
speed was 185 kts, after the first few testflights it topped 220 kts. Next time
around
you install a car oil filter and head out over the fiord. Suddenly you see the
propeller standing still. You make a turn and by some miracle you make it to the
treshold of the runway. Then you pay $ 11.000 in engine overhaul and car parts
will
never be used again.
P.S. The oil filter sealant ring was blown off and the sump was pumped dry of oil
and the engine sized. The owner is a friend of mine.
Aviation (K)nut Michalsen, RV6, have all the parts needed, no progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "L. Coats" <lcoats(at)wave.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Observation on floor vibration -6 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "L. Coats"
Hi to all,
The last annual revealed that the hinge pin extending up from the gear leg
fairing on the -6 had worn a slit in the cockpit floor. Perhaps I haven't
built something quite right here but I could not continue to ignore the
progression of this damage to the floor and decided to do something about
it. This slit was now about 5/16 in length and was extending forward from
both hinge pin holes. Having read from the list about 'beefing' up this
area I decided to rivet a small piece of 3/16 aluminum to the floor and
drill a new hole for the gear leg hinge pin through this (in its original
location).
This has had a *profound* effect on the floor vibrations as felt by placing
ones bare feet on the floor (I prefer to fly without shoes!). Reflecting
on the amount of vibration felt from the floor I do think that this had been
becoming more prominent and now wish that I had done something about this
100hr ago to decrease the number of smoking rivets. I will post back to
the list after the next 50hr if there is a reduction in the amount of
'smoke'! Oh darn, will have to go and do some more flying!
As a side issue has anyone else noticed fuel seepage from the top of the
fuel selector valve that Van's supplies with the kit? This has started to
leave the tell tale stain on the top surface of the selector support! Any
special do's and don'ts here?
L.Coats RV6 flying 192hr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred New <fred(at)ics.ee> |
| Subject: | Re: Slider (RV6 & 6A) panel overhang head chopper |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fred New
On Sun, 8 Jun 1997 aol.com!Cafgef(at)matronics.com wrote:
> I am using a combination of windless covered by foam pipe insulation.
> The windless spreads the impact from my head hitting the visor so the
> visor would not cut through the foam.
Has anyone tried using something besides sheet metal for the overhang?
It seems like carpet might work better.
--
Fred New IC Systems (372) 656-5477
Systems Administrator Mustamae tee 8 fax (372) 656-5476
fred(at)ics.ee EE0006 Tallinn, Estonia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Blake Harral <bharral(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Alternator Brackets |
--> RV-List message posted by: Blake Harral
I have a question for Rober Nuckolls that may interest other listers.
Bob, I know you work closely with B&C. Can you tell me if B&C will sell
their alternator brackets (only). I am particularly interested in the
case mount version.
I have a couple of old generator brackets that that I am going to take
to my local welding wizard to get a quote on modifying, but perhaps it
would better to buy one.
Regards,
Blake Harral
RV-4 - working on engine accessories
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Boris <smbr(at)digital.net> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Boris
There has been a differing opinion as to whether or not to turn back or
go straight after a low engine failure.
The turn back to land after a climb-out engine failure should be viewed
as a maximum performance maneuver. To learn how to minimize the height
loss during the maneuver one must go out and practice it. Glider pilots
are repeated trained for low level rope breaks and the turn back can be
accomplished with very little loss of altitude. My lowest instructor
induced rope break was at 120 feet in a low performance 2-33 trainer at
65+ mph tow speed over 60 to 70 foot high trees. Stall speed is about 40
mph with no bank factor. I pulled back as hard as I could in the turn
trying to convert airspeed to maintaining altitude around the turn, and
not hitting the trees with the long wings. This was 15 years ago and I
still feel that my instructor pulled the rope much too low. After we
landed, when I said so to him, he replied that he knew I would make an
immediate turn.
My point is that when I made the turn I pulled back I remember feeling
the burble over the ailerons from the air separating. I kept it on the
verge and made the maximum performance turn. But , if you've never
practiced this maneuver how will you know where the maximum is? Also, if
you can't properly recover from a spin, you shouldn't practice this.
Because, in finding out what the edge feels like you might go over and
drop a wing. No big deal if you can recover.
After a friend was killed in his Bonanza turning back after an engine
power loss and spinning in at 700 feet, there was much discussion at our
local EAA chapter about practicing turn abouts. Many members, some with
instructors, went up and tried to feel out the altitude required to make
the turn back. There were a few things that we did as part of the
procedure.
After establishing the climb attitude, airspeed and power for various
phases of the climb, slower for lower, and faster for higher, the power
would be pulled. Count 1 thousand 1, 1 tho...2, 1 tho3, then initiate
the maneuver. In real life it will take time to realize that the engine
has really quit and that you better do something.
Always turn into the wind as it will help push you back toward the
runway and reduce the number of degrees you have to turn.
Good luck.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wesley T Robinson <wesleyt(at)twave.net> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Wesley T Robinson
Does anyone know of a 6\6A fuse jig in the North Carolina, Virginia,
South Carolina, Georgia, Tennesse area that I might be able to purchase?
If not, how hard is it to actually build one?
Wings done, Fuse here is a week
Wesley Robinson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <RNuckolls(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Alternator Brackets |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
/Bob, I know you work closely with B&C. Can you tell me =
/if B&C will sell their alternator brackets (only). I am =
/particularly interested in the case mount version.
I'm sure he will. The question would be if your alterntor
will fit in the space provided. His brackets are tailored
to the Nipon-Dienso machines which are MUCH smaller than
most certified alterntors. Also, I believe the case-mount
bracket relies on a stabilizing strap to the starter casting.
That long, vertical drop from the case bolts leaves it a
bit wobbly and puts a lot of stress on the bolts above unless
it's tied to the starter so make sure your starter casting
has the little ear on it for this purpose. =
Bill is much more knowlegable on this than I. Give him
a call at 316-283-8000.
Bob . . .=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: voltage regulator |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> /I have also seen a voltage reg with only one wire coming out of
> /it which I assume goes to "Alt" switch, no "S" that I can
> /see.
>
> Beat's me. A voltage regulator takes at least 3 connections
> one of which may be a ground through the mounting feet
> but a one-wire device . . . . got no idea what it is.
Having a lot of experience on English motorcycles, I suspect your unit
may be a Zener diode. This device is for use with a permenant magnet
style alternator (as apposed to an electro-magnetic alternator) . A
Zener diode is a voltage senitive device which behaves as an open
circuit below a preset voltage. (usually about 14 volts or slightly
less) As the system voltage rises, the Zener diode starts to conduct
current. The idea is to use the Zener diode as a load device (such as a
light bulb) to prevent the system voltage from exceeding design limits
(15 - 15.5 volts)
This is definitely NOT something to be used with an electro-magnetic
alternator. A Zener diode must be mounted in an appropriate heat sink
and properly grounded. The output of a permenant magnet alternator is
controlled only by the speed (RPM) of the alternator. Therefore, A
device (Zener diode) must be installed to prevent overvoltage as speed
is increased.
An electro-magnetic (auto & A/C) alternator varies the output of the
alternator as speed and load vary. This is done by varying the current
fed into the alternator's rotor. When system voltage rises, input
current is reduced by the voltage regulator. This weakens the magnetic
field around the spinning rotor, thereby reducing the alternator's
output current.
Charlie Kuss
RV-8 empenage kit ordered
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: Stick Not Hitting RV-6A Panel |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough)
On my RV-6A (slider) the stick doesn't hit the instrument panel when
the stick is pushed full forward. The stick stops almost 2" aft of
the vertical plane of the instrument panel. Is this normal? Did I
build something wrong?
If your stick is hitting the top of the spar, then the problem is obvious...your
spar is too far
back, move it forward about an inch!
Just kidding of course...
At neutral, the stick should be just forward of vertical, I can't remember the
exact degrees (15
sounds familiar). The travel of the elevator should then determine where it stops.
I had a military
style grip on my stick and had to cut about 2 - 3inches off the stick or else with
my thumb on the
trim switch, it would hit the bottom of the panel..very painful.
Obviously there's no guarantee that MINE was set up right...;-(
Ken
RV6A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Colquitt" <jcolquit(at)law.ua.edu> |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Joe Colquitt"
Someone ended an interesting msg on turning back with "> Good luck."
That about sums up my sentiments. I lost two friends who were turning
back. A well-trained, experienced and current pilot who has practiced
turn-backs recently in the airplane type being flown and who has
everything going for him/her, may pull it off depending on the
airplane, the altitude, the attitude (plane and pilot), etc., etc.
But . . . day in and day out, to me at least, for most of us, it's
look within 30 degrees left and right of straight ahead, select the
best landing area, and ">Good luck." It'll probably turn out better
than turning back. Entering 45-60 degree banks at low altitude with
the engine out doesn't exactly whet my appetite.
Regardless, though, these type decisions should have been made long
before they happen. The one time I experienced engine failure with a
student at the controls, the student just sat there. Even with my
coaching, he did none of what he had been taught and did not respond
to my instructions. I had to take the airplane. Luckily, we were on
approach to landing, not on takeoff where things would have been a
mite more pressing. I advised him to take up golf.
"What if . . ." drills on the ground are valuable. When (or if) the
time comes, having thought out the scenarios will prove most helpful.
There may not be time to think "well, let's see, I can . . .gosh,
maybe . . ., then again . . .." On the other hand, the
student pilot I mentioned had received instructions, had participated
in "what ifs" and had just spent an hour practicing emergency
procedures yet when it hit him in the face, he did nothing! ;-(
Joe Colquitt
Flying RV-3A
CFII
Joseph A. (Joe) Colquitt
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 6\6A Fuse Jig. |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV6AIR(at)aol.com
I have a Steve Frey RV-6/6A fuselage jig for sale. $900.00
Bob Lovering
Annapolis, MD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Stall spin - "Skin, Tin, Ticket" |
--> RV-List message posted by: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Re: finding an emergency landing spot, the instructor said "That's the
trouble with you guys that own your own plane! A renter would have picked the
field. You guys worry too much about your planes!"
I was told and will always remember, "Skin, Tin, Ticket". Save them in order.
The way I figure, who wants an airplane that quits in flight? It will be harder
when it is a plane I built, I bet.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- On the main gear!
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh Table - Van's Banquet |
<19970523.154146.21871.3.cecilth(at)juno.com>
--> RV-List message posted by: cecilth(at)juno.com
Again this summer, I plan to reserve a table for all us listers
that go
to Van's Banquet, so we can get to know each other better.
We ended up having several no shows, and I felt embarrassed when
the
place is sold out and here I'm holding some vacant spots. So this year I
will strive to do better, by keeping the above sentence posted each time
I show the list to date, about once each week.
Thisyear we have about 300 more listers than last year, so I'm
guessing we
will have about 30 or so at our table.
So we don't clutter the list, send your name and the number in your party
to me at cecilth(at)juno.com
Before July 29th (when I leave for mecca), keep me posted if I
need to
remove your name.
The following are on the list so far. If you don't see your name, and
thought you were on it, I didn't get the message, so send it again.
Cecil Hatfield
Tim Sweemer
Donna Sweemer
Jon Scholl
Friend of Jon Scholl
Jim Ayers
Mark Goldberg
Goldberg Jr.
Jim Cone
Bev Cone
Peter Hanna
Les Rowles
Les Rowles' Mate
Joe Rex
Zelda Gifford
The Banquet this year is Sunday evening starting at 6:30. Ticket cost
$20.00
Order your tickets from Vans before July 28. There will only be about 300
tickets available so first come first served. In the past, those that
order close to deadline can be picked up at Vans booth.
Cecil Hatfield
Plans No. 23581 working on the fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
--> RV-List message posted by: Bkclary(at)aol.com
Removed from RV6A ( N 85 TX ) for 0360:
0320E2D- 307:00 TTSCMO, AVBlend used since breakin, regular oil analysis, oil
consumption 1.5 qts. between 25 hr. oil changes. - $ 9250.00 incls
accessories.
4" spool type extension ( fixed pitch cowl ), crush plate, spacer, and all
bolts for 0320 - $ 250.00
2 Sensenich props for RV6A, both 68" x 80", hardened leading edge. One used-
$300.00; one new never used- $ 500.00.
Contact Bill Akin
806.236-3933
806.439-2309
806.236.3935 (fax)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Vans fuel sender |
--> RV-List message posted by: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
> I have bent and cut the fuel float as per the instructions supplied in
> the box from van's and am now I have a question.
>
> Is there a final small bend beyond what the instructions specify? It
> appears that as linstalled, there is nothing to keep the float arm wire
> from piviting freely or from coming out of the plastic clips. Am I
> mising something here...??
I _almost_ made the same mistake. I am going from memory here but as I
recall, there is a 90 degree bend on the very end that goes into the
hole in the center of the pivot. You can't see it in one view since it
would be pointing away from you in that view. If you look carefully you
will see it in another view. That's my recollection of it anyway.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Ruddock <markr(at)iwl.net> |
| Subject: | :Ride to Oshkosh |
<19970523.154146.21871.3.cecilth(at)juno.com> <19970609.094312.15495.3.cecilth(at)juno.com>
--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Ruddock
I figure this is really a long shot but...
I was wondering if anyone was flying(by light plane) to Oshkosh from the
Houston area and needed a passenger to share the cost/flying time.
Thought it might be worth a try...
Thanks,
Mark (RV-6A wings)
markr(at)iwl.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mike Wills
I'm interested in one of those Piper "blade style" pitot's for my -4. Does
anyone on the list have one which may be for sale? Alternatively, can anyone
suggest a possible source for one? I assume they are available as salvage
parts. What should I expect to pay for one of these?
Thanks,
Mike Wills
RV-4(wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6\6A Fuse Jig. |
--> RV-List message posted by: Denny Harjehausen
>
>If not, how hard is it to actually build one?
>
>Wings done, Fuse here is a week
>Wesley Robinson
>
I built mine from the suggested material in the manual, it was difficult.
But I did have to work some to get it straight.
A friend seeing what I went thru, got some 3/4" plywood and had a cabinet
shop rip the pieces needed from the ply. He doubled the 6" wide 3/4" pieces
and staggering the laps for the long rails. Then glued and screwed them
together. He made the cross bars also out of 3/4 ply cut at 4" widths
doubling them also then glueing and screwing them. The rails were then
exactly straight without a chance of warping. And actually assembled much
easier them mine. Which makes measuring much easier and thereby less chance
of mistakes.
Have A Great Day!
Denny
Denton Harjehausen
retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com
RV-6/ Fuselage
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nuisance trips by design? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dr John Cocker
Bob,
I have had trouble in the past, leaving the master switch on and having a
flat battery.
Do you have a circuit for a bright light which comes on when the master is
on, and the engine not running ?
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dr John Cocker
Boris, I have been trying to simulate an engine failure on take-off using
Microsoft "Flight Simulator"
>From 600 feet I can crash on the airfield, I need to be at 700 feet to land
on the runway. And this is when I am prepared for the engine failure, and I
am in a no-stress situation.
Add surprise, fear, and lack of experience in low level steep turns, and
even more altitiude is needed..
I have had two engine failures on take-off. Both in the same Ultralight with
a Hirth engine. The first time was at 800 feet and I made it back to the
runway. The second one was at 500 ft, and I landed on what looked like a
smooth field. In fact there were ruts which took off the landing gear, but
with absolutely no damage to the passenger, or myself. Not even a small=
bruise.
Two comments : 1. I have never heard such a deafening silence, as
the one which follows the engine seizing, and
2. The glide angle with the prop. stopped is much
steeper than with the engine idling.
John. (Just waiting for the paperwork)
>--> RV-List message posted by: Boris
>
>There has been a differing opinion as to whether or not to turn back or=20
>go straight after a low engine failure.
>
>The turn back to land after a climb-out engine failure should be viewed=20
>as a maximum performance maneuver. To learn how to minimize the height=20
>loss during the maneuver one must go out and practice it. Glider pilots=20
>are repeated trained for low level rope breaks and the turn back can be=20
>accomplished with very little loss of altitude. My lowest instructor=20
>induced rope break was at 120 feet in a low performance 2-33 trainer at=20
>65+ mph tow speed over 60 to 70 foot high trees. Stall speed is about 40=20
>mph with no bank factor. I pulled back as hard as I could in the turn=20
>trying to convert airspeed to maintaining altitude around the turn, and=20
>not hitting the trees with the long wings. This was 15 years ago and I=20
>still feel that my instructor pulled the rope much too low. After we=20
>landed, when I said so to him, he replied that he knew I would make an=20
>immediate turn.
>
>My point is that when I made the turn I pulled back I remember feeling=20
>the burble over the ailerons from the air separating. I kept it on the=20
>verge and made the maximum performance turn. But , if you've never=20
>practiced this maneuver how will you know where the maximum is? Also, if=20
>you can't properly recover from a spin, you shouldn't practice this.=20
>Because, in finding out what the edge feels like you might go over and=20
>drop a wing. No big deal if you can recover.=20
>
>After a friend was killed in his Bonanza turning back after an engine=20
>power loss and spinning in at 700 feet, there was much discussion at our=20
>local EAA chapter about practicing turn abouts. Many members, some with=20
>instructors, went up and tried to feel out the altitude required to make=20
>the turn back. There were a few things that we did as part of the=20
>procedure.
>
>After establishing the climb attitude, airspeed and power for various=20
>phases of the climb, slower for lower, and faster for higher, the power=20
>would be pulled. Count 1 thousand 1, 1 tho...2, 1 tho=853, then initiate=20
>the maneuver. In real life it will take time to realize that the engine=20
>has really quit and that you better do something.=20
>
>Always turn into the wind as it will help push you back toward the=20
>runway and reduce the number of degrees you have to turn.
>
>Good luck.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | catbird(at)taylortel.com (TTC Carroll A. Bird) |
| Subject: | RV-4 Fuselage Jig |
--> RV-List message posted by: catbird(at)taylortel.com (TTC Carroll A. Bird)
I have a wooden fuselage jig that anyone can have if they can
come get it. It is located at the Abilene TX Regional Airport.
There has been two fuselages built on this jig. Both look real
good.
Carroll Bird
915-572-3435
________________________________________________________________________________
--> RV-List message posted by: UFOBUCK(at)aol.com
My apologies !!!!
The phone numbers to Bill Akin are incorrect.
The correct numbers:
817.236.3933
817 439.2309
817.236.3935 (fax)
Actually I'm real pissed about him having a 0360 and I don't. Life is not
fair.
Bkclary N75TX flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ross Mickey"
Try J.T. Evans at 1-800-421-1729 or 407-843-4547 in Orlando FLA. Thats
where I got mine. I think I paid about $75.
Ross Mickey
rmickey@ix,netcom.com
> I'm interested in one of those Piper "blade style" pitot's for my -4.
Does
> anyone on the list have one which may be for sale? Alternatively, can
anyone
> suggest a possible source for one? I assume they are available as salvage
> parts. What should I expect to pay for one of these?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike Wills
> RV-4(wings)
> willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ACCPILOT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: AC Oil Filters(chatter) |
--> RV-List message posted by: ACCPILOT(at)aol.com
Well the guy that I talked about took his airplane and went away for the
weekend (can't wait until I can do that) so I didn't have a chance to talk to
him but I think he has been using the Porsche filter set up on his plane for
about 250 - 300 hours. I think the filter itself is around $6.00 so I guess
one could save a few dollars. When he gets back I will ask him more and let
the list know.
Tony Cochran
T-18 Driver
Wanting an RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Denny Harjehausen
>--> RV-List message posted by: Mike Wills
>
> I'm interested in one of those Piper "blade style" pitot's for my -4. Does
>anyone on the list have one which may be for sale? Alternatively, can anyone
>suggest a possible source for one? I assume they are available as salvage
>parts. What should I expect to pay for one of these?
I got mine though Aircraft Salvage in Washington. I can't locate their
number, they are Trade Plane I beleive. The price with a heating element
was under a $100.
Have A Great Day!
Denny
Denton Harjehausen
retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com
RV-6/ Fuselage
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EXP-Bus Safety? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Benedict
>--> RV-List message posted by: Steve Colwell
>
>Bob, does this mean we don't need an Avionics Master, that we can just
>leave all the avionics on all the time and let the Master Switch turn
>everything on and off?
>
>Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>>
> >The fragile,
> germanium transistors of the time would come out of saturation
> in the power supplies, go into second breakdown and voila, "my
> starter just killed my radio."
>
> It took us years later to understand the phenomenon and in the
> mean time, DO-160 says you'll design a radio to take anything
> an airplane will throw at it. Germanium has long since been
> replaced by more rugged silicon. Radio manufacturers have become
> a lot smarter. Alternator runaway overvoltage is the only
> "gremlin" left to guard against.<
>
Steve, I do not mean to be answering for Bob, but if it isn't the
germanium transistor being zap'd by the transient, it will be something
else. In Van's RV-8 (#1), we have a Rocky Mountain Instrument for
airspeed/altitude. This instrument has a device that does not like
transients either. It is some form of an EPROM which holds the code for
translating (through tables) the transducer inputs into meaningful
airspeed/altitude. To date, we have had the code trashed 3 times so I
moved it to the avionics bus which does not get turned on until the engine
is running. That should solve the problem.
Having an avionics bus is still desirable (IMHO), since it allows you with
one switch to remove a load from the battery, allowing all of the battery
energy to be utilized for starting the engine. Besides, all solid state
devices have a breakdown voltage. If the designer of the avionics did not
take precautions, that transient coming off the solenoid can still play
havoc with your radios, although not as likely with the current silicon
devices as with the germanium devices.
The electronics industry has been developing/using gallium arsenide (GaAs)
in high frequency components for some time. This material is more
susceptible to voltage spikes than silicon and may some day end up in our
transponders and/or GPS receivers (if not already there). All the more
reason to get complex electronics off the battery when engaging the starter.
Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PhilipR920(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Equipment List |
--> RV-List message posted by: PhilipR920(at)aol.com
John,
Please explain the "double pointer" on the Sigma-Tex attitude gyro.
I just ordered an eight degree Sigma-Tek for my 6A, but am not familiar with
the double pointer feature.
Phil Rogerson
6AQ 60057
N936PR res.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Observation on floor vibration -6 |
--> RV-List message posted by: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
>As a side issue has anyone else noticed fuel seepage from the top of the
>fuel selector valve that Van's supplies with the kit? This has started to
>leave the tell tale stain on the top surface of the selector support! Any
>special do's and don'ts here?
>
>L.Coats RV6 flying 192hr
>
I had this happen at about 1 1/2 year point. Tried all of the magic stuff
to no avail. Finally , after talking to the people at Vans, put in a
selector from Piper. Worked great, no more seepage.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Stick Length |
--> RV-List message posted by: JamesCone(at)aol.com
I cut my stick off about 1 1/2 " because I thought that my control hand would
hit the adjustment knob on my DG. After I got my controls fully rigged, I
found that this was not the case and I did not need to cut the stick off. I
wish that I had not cut it off. The RV flies "nicer" with the longer stick
as I have found out by flying other RVs that have the stick like the plans
call for. As to over controlling, I think that less over controlling would
occur with your hand on the top of the stick rather than on the bottom.
Small movements at the top produce less control than the same movements with
the stick held lower. I like the feel of the controls better when holding
the top of the stick. Just my oppinion.
Jim Cone, RV-6A Flying Great!!!
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RodWoodard <rodwoodard(at)mcione.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Equipment List |
--> RV-List message posted by: RodWoodard
> --> RV-List message posted by: PhilipR920(at)aol.com
>
> John,
>
> Please explain the "double pointer" on the Sigma-Tex attitude gyro.
>
> I just ordered an eight degree Sigma-Tek for my 6A, but am not familiar
with
> the double pointer feature.
>
> Phil Rogerson
> 6AQ 60057
> N936PR res.
The "single pointer" attitude gyro has a single "V" pointer hanging down
pointing to a white line showing angle of bank. You put the point of the V
on whatever angle of bank and you're there. With the "double pointer" units
there are 2 V's and you put the little white line between the points of the
V's. It sort of looks like this: V|V where the "|" line is the white angle
of bank line.
I've flown with both and have to say that I prefer the single pointer
variety. The Cherokee I owned and flew for 550 hours had the single pointer
and it was easier for me to maintain my desired bank angle with my single
pointer than with my friend's double pointer in his Cherokee.
I'm sure it really just winds up being a matter of what you're used to
looking at. I think the "double pointer" _looks_ a little better just
sitting there in the panel... it's real subjective.
Best regards,
Rod Woodard
Loveland, Colorado
[I'm putting a Bendix/King Flight Director in my -8 so I don't have to
worry about how many "pointers" I have. :-) ]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <James.E.Clark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
--> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark"
Wentworth
1-800-w-e-n-t-w-o-r-
About $150-250.
They have them (used) with new heating elements installed.
No affiliation with them other than I purchased one from them.
By the way, either the cost of new heating elements from Piper or the
completely new unit from Piper motivated me to consider the "used" approach
even though I seem to be sinking a small fortune in this effort already.
;-)
James
RV6AQ ... wings to be closed, soon, maybe, hopefully.
----------
> From: Mike Wills <manta.nosc.mil!willsm(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Piper pitot
> Date: Monday, June 09, 1997 4:30 PM
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mike Wills
>
> I'm interested in one of those Piper "blade style" pitot's for my -4.
Does
> anyone on the list have one which may be for sale? Alternatively, can
anyone
> suggest a possible source for one? I assume they are available as salvage
> parts. What should I expect to pay for one of these?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike Wills
> RV-4(wings)
> willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <RNuckolls(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Avionics Master Sw . . . |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
/Steve, I do not mean to be answering for Bob, but if it isn't =
/the germanium transistor being zap'd by the transient, it will =
/be something else. In Van's RV-8 (#1), we have a Rocky Mountain =
/Instrument for airspeed/altitude. This instrument has a device =
/that does not like transients either. . . . =
/ . . . . we've had the code trashed 3 times so I moved it to the =
/avionics bus which does not get turned on until the engine is =
/running. That should solve the problem. =
Bill, this is UNACCEPTABLE behavior from a product that is intended
to install in an airplane or any other vehicle. Consider your
automotive electronics . . . now about as complex as most airplanes.
You don't have to worry about zapping those devices in spite of the
fact that there's not a nickel's worth of difference between the
automotive and aircraft electrical systems. If any product exhibits
this kind of behavior, I'd return it to the manufacturer and ask
them to FIX it. I've been putting micro-controllers in airplanes
since 1980 and I've never had a problem such as you've described becaus=
e
the ability to avoid it is now child's play from a design perspective.
King does it, GM does it, Narco does it, . . . . please don't be so =
willing to solve a manufacturer's problems by modifying the way you ope=
rate
your airplane.
Some years ago, when Ni-Cads were catching fire in one airplane after
another, the FIX was to add a battery temperature indicator to the
aircraft instrument panel and tell the pilot to turn off the battery
if it got too hot!!! What hogwash! A voltage regulator's #1 task
is to take care of a battery and the obvious solution was to design
regulators capable of caring for Ni-Cads. It was easier to put yet anot=
her =
warning on the panel and "let the pilot take care of it." What's more,=
the proponents of this idea were happier to let the customers pay for
the fix than to admit to a design flaw in their system.
You don't have to put up with this #$@#@$ guys! It's your money,
your airplanes and your skills that have to deal with what the
elements and your airplane hand you. If some gizmo you purchase can't
cut the mustard, send it back. It's your humble acceptance of a sub-
standard product that allows it to continue to be sub-standard. Most =
of the world signed up to the task over 20 years ago. If someone wants =
to play in the same sandbox with the big boys, make 'em play by the =
same rules.
/Having an avionics bus is still desirable (IMHO), since it allows you =
/with one switch to remove a load from the battery, allowing all of the=
=
/battery energy to be utilized for starting the engine. Besides, =
/all solid state devices have a breakdown voltage.
True, that's why we design power conditioning and signal interface
circuits to completely isolate sensitive devices from potentially
damaging sources. I just finished a design for a little timer =
that hooks directly to the bus of an A4 that launches our targets.
It's got 15v c-mos integrated circuits in it yet you can shoot all
DO-160, 600 volt spikes into it all day long and it's not going to
get hurt . . . it ain't that tough. And what about all the goodies
NOT on the avionics bus? You have to manage those loads one at a
time and they generally represent much LARGER loads than all the radio=
s.
/If the designer of the avionics did not take precautions, transient com=
ing off =
/the solenoid can still play havoc with your radios, although not as =
/likely with the current silicon devices as with the germanium devices. =
=
The phenomenon that was killing the germaniums was LOW voltage. The
event would occur when the bus voltage fell below about 7 volts during=
cranking with a dead battery. One could just as easily walk away leavi=
ng
perfectly good radios on and come back to find a dead battery -AND- zo=
rked
radios. The wiley transient "spike" has never really existed. Most
technicians in radio shops can't tell you what the "second breakdown"
phenomenon is. Blaming a radio failure on a "spike" is easy to claim,
difficult to defend and we've bought into it for way too many years.
/The electronics industry has been developing/using gallium arsenide =
/(GaAs) in high frequency components for some time. This material is =
/more susceptible to voltage spikes than silicon and may some day end =
/up in our transponders and/or GPS receivers (if not already there). =
/All the more reason to get complex electronics off the battery when =
/engaging the starter.
=
These devices are NEVER directly interfaced to the outside world
without protective isolation.
Please, let's not fertilize this hangar-lore and allow it to flourish
any longer. If anyone is really concerned about this, call King
Radio or any other manufacturer. Find an engineer for the device
about which you have some concerns and ask him/her about it. If that =
engineer has the slightest concern, I would sincerely like to know thi=
er =
name cause somebody is blowing smoke. When they certify to TSO and DO-=
160 =
requriements, they're saying it was built right so guys like us don't =
have =
to take responsability for pampering a VERY expensive piece of equipme=
nt. =
If the EFI computer in a Lexus blew up every so often how long do you =
think they'd be in business?
If anyone is having troubles in this area with a product design, get
in touch with me. I'll forego my outragous fee for the first four
hours of consultation time to fix the problem . . . and guess what,
we won't spend more than an hour getting it figured out.
=
Regards,
Bob . . . =
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DoOOo=3D(_)=3DoOOo=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
72770.552(at)compuserve.com
http://www.aeroelectric.com=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RMille6453(at)aol.com |
--> RV-List message posted by: RMille6453(at)aol.com
Hi mike!
I'm installing a piper pitot. The heating element is bad (not a big deal to
me) paid $30. The nice thing about the blade is that no fancy mount is
required like the Cessna pitots need. I used a .040 skin doubler and made a
triangle gusset out of a piece of bad VS rib. This is mounted on the inside
of the last bay of the wing just behind the spar (this makes it accessible
through the end of the wing). My mechanic says he sees no reason why it
won't work--I hope he's right!
Good luck
Rob Miller
RV8 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Nuisance trips by design? |
--> RV-List message posted by: TOMRV4(at)aol.com
<< Bob,
I have had trouble in the past, leaving the master switch on and having a
flat battery.
Do you have a circuit for a bright light which comes on when the master is
on, and the engine not running ? >>
If you're flying an RV-4, you might be interested in a poor man's idiot light
that acts as both a master on warning light and a conopy unlatched warning
light all in one. I installed it in my plane, and it has saved me a couple of
dead batteries and potential problems from a conopy that wasn't fully
latched.
I purchased a small momentary push button switch from Radio Shack, and
installed it in the aft end of the phenolic(sp?) block in the instrument
panel that captures the canopy hold down pin. I positioned the switch so
that when the pin is FULLY engaged it depresses the switch and extinguishes
the light. Simply run the wiring from your master activated bus bar thru the
switch to the idiot light.
When you are preparing for take off, it acts as a conopy open light, which
turns off when your canopy pins are fully engaged. After engine shutdown,
should you forget to turn off the master and have opened the canopy, it acts
as a master on light. (Of course, you need to have it visible enough to warn
you before you exit the plane and latch the canopy shut.)
Tom Chapman
TOMRV4(at)aol.com
RV-4 N153TK
San Antonio
Working on RV-8 tail kit (ordered wing kit yesterday)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rvbildr(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Stick Length |
--> RV-List message posted by: rvbildr(at)juno.com
I cut my stick off at the suggestion of Van's, so that my hand would not
hit the panel in the full nose down position. I think the major
consideration here is that you have complete and unemcumbered control
movement. Different panel and stick grip configurations require different
fixes. As Van's said, if it needs cutting, cut it 'til it clears the
panel. I bought the wood stick grips, which added quite a bit of height
to the sticks.
Mal
rvbildr(at)juno.com
RV- 6 finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ronald Vandervort
re: Aerolectric Connection
Hello Bob,
Looking at your electrical schematic p Z-5, revised 5/96; What is
the MOV unit depicted at two locations..battery Master Sw. and starter
contactor?
Thanks,
Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q, mocking up instrument panel
rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap,lib.wa.us
Seattle area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <RNuckolls(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Master switch warning . . . |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
There are several ways to reduce your chances of walking
away from the airplane leaving the master switch on; some
have already been addressed by others. On of my favorites
is to install a SPDT oil pressure switch and use the normally
open contact to operate the hour meter directly from the battery
so that the electrical system doesn't have to be up to record
engine hours.
The normally closed contacts are used to operate a "low oil pres"
annunciator light and if you like, a little buzzer. This side
of the system is powered from the essential bus. After engine
shutdown, either the essential bus alternate feed -or- the
battery master switch being left on will get you a visual and
audible warning.
Bob . . .=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Equipment List |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John B. Abell"
Phil,
For me, the problem with the Sigma Tek is a little more tedious than
Rod's reply might suggest. The two pointers are indeed V-shaped, but
they're tilted so that their inner edges are parallel and the space
between them is quite narrow so it's difficult to see the line
underneath them. I find the single pointer style used in the R. C.
Allen (among others) to be much more quickly and accurately readable.
It's also easier to maintain a wings level position because I'm able to
detect small deviations more quickly and correct for them sooner.
Jack Abell
RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Ray" <str(at)almaden.ibm.com> |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Sam Ray"
Completed rv6 tail for sale at the price of a kit from Van's.
EXCELLENT workmanship.
Sam Ray
San Jose, CA
str(at)almaden.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <RNuckolls(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Grounding questions |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
Dave,
Just found your original about the ground block and
solder sleeves. Did we get all your questions answered?
Bob . . .=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <RNuckolls(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Master trim disconnect |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
/Regarding your post to the RV-List about trim disconnects;
=
< You can implement a VERY failure tolerant system using the stock
< "coolie hat" type switches combined with either a "TRIM ARM"
< pushbutton on the stick or a "MASTER TRIM DISCONNECT". Either
< system may be built up from currently available components.
=
=
/I had been thinking of using a pull breaker to disconnect my elevator t=
rim and a
/switch on the stick to disconnect my autopilot servo. How would the sys=
tem you
/describe differ? Would both the AP servo and elevator trim be disconnec=
ted by
/one switch? If I send you a SASE could you return a schematic?
=
The way it's usually done on the big ships is to put a single
flight systems disconnect switch on the stick or wheel so that
the pilot doesn't have to go looking for a breaker or another
switch while the malfunctioning system is driving things further
and further out of trim.
A single relay is wired in a latching configuration to supply
power to all systems capable of moving flight surfaces. A normally
closed pushbutton on the stick or wheel is used to unlatch the =
relay and kill power to all flight surface movers. The system
is reset with another button on the panel.
When funny things start happening, you don't want to be using a lot
of time to stop the motion . . . the longer it takes to shut down
an errant system, the further out of trim you become. A #10 SASE
with the words "master trim disonnect" on the back of it mailed
to 6936 Bainbridge Road, Wichita, KS 67226 will get the interested
party a schematic.
Bob . . .=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Observation on floor vibration -6 |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Gesele
>>As a side issue has anyone else noticed fuel seepage from the top of the
>>fuel selector valve that Van's supplies with the kit? This has started to
>>leave the tell tale stain on the top surface of the selector support! Any
>>special do's and don'ts here?
>>
>>L.Coats RV6 flying 192hr
>>
>I had this happen at about 1 1/2 year point. Tried all of the magic stuff
>to no avail. Finally , after talking to the people at Vans, put in a
>selector from Piper. Worked great, no more seepage.
>John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
>Stephenville TX
>johnd@our-town.com
>
Which fuel selector has been having this problem, the original three
position or the current four position? If you are referring to the original
three position, does the current selector being shipped solve this problem?
Scott Gesele N506RV (Painting)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 6\6A Fuse Jig. |
| From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
--> RV-List message posted by: ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy)
>Does anyone know of a 6\6A fuse jig in the North Carolina, Virginia,
>South Carolina, Georgia, Tennesse area that I might be able to
>purchase?
>If not, how hard is it to actually build one?
>Wings done, Fuse here is a week
Wesley, building the fuse jig is FAR easier than building a set of
wings... :-) Seriously, if you can find one locally, great. If not,
then you can build one in less than a day for around $50.
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: MOV...? What is a MOV? |
--> RV-List message posted by: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Hi all,
>Hello Bob,
> Looking at your electrical schematic p Z-5, revised 5/96; What is
>the MOV unit depicted at two locations..battery Master Sw. and starter
>contactor?
I'll take a shot at this question since Bob must be at lunch.
MOV's (Metallic Oxide Varistor) are solid state electronic components that love
transients, spikes and such. They eat them for lunch! That is their whole
raison d'etre. Along with other components like chokes and capacitors they
filter out the voltage excursions and send the surplus to a hole in the ground
-- they short overvoltages to ground. They love spikes! At the same time, they
hate change. They like to keep the voltage constant or at least from changing
rapidly.
Things change in my industry - computers and software - so fast that last year
is like a decade in the real world! A five year old computer is like a fifty
year old engine - an antique. In the old days, say the seventies, these things
either didn't exist or were expensive and heavy especially since they had to
sink (get rid of) large amounts of excess from equipment that drew large amounts
of power. The equipment now draws very little and hardly needs cooling fans.
So small filters in the power path can really flatten transients.
Look at how the price of computer surge protectors has fallen. Rip one up and
you'll find MOVs. If they have come up with something newer since I looked!
But what do I know? I'm into software now and we could really use something to
filter out the bugs.
("If buildings were built the way software is built, the first woodpecker to
come along would destroy civilization." - from Dkystra I think.)
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- On main gear
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <James.E.Clark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EXP-Bus Safety? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark"
----------
> From: Bill Benedict <europa.com!billb(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: EXP-Bus Safety?
> Date: Monday, June 09, 1997 8:54 PM
> .
>
> The electronics industry has been developing/using gallium arsenide
(GaAs)
> in high frequency components for some time. This material is more
> susceptible to voltage spikes than silicon and may some day end up in our
> transponders and/or GPS receivers (if not already there). All the more
> reason to get complex electronics off the battery when engaging the
starter.
> Bill
>
I actually think that some of the GPS people have been using GaAs for some
time.
James
RV6AQ ... wings ...one day
>
>
>
> Bill
> RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
> flying hours.
> These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
> position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Gold" <winterland(at)theharddrive.net> |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Andy Gold"
subscribe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "L. Coats" <lcoats(at)wave.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Observation on floor vibration -6 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "L. Coats"
>
>Which fuel selector has been having this problem, the original three
>position or the current four position? If you are referring to the original
>three position, does the current selector being shipped solve this problem?
>
>Scott Gesele N506RV (Painting)
>
It is the original three position fuel selector valve. I can't comment on
the current model.
L. Coats
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Master switch warning . . . |
--> RV-List message posted by: mikel(at)dimensional.com
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>
> There are several ways to reduce your chances of walking
> away from the airplane leaving the master switch on....
Bob: What is the circut that is used in cars that runs the "idiot lights",
one of which is the ALT? When the car is not running, the light is on.
Could this be done using the Ford regulator? Seems if cars do it, it should
be easy........however.....
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
--> RV-List message posted by: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Denny and listers,
Thanks for your comments about my newsletter. To answer your question about
the rudder trim system I offer the following. My rudder trim system that was
published in my newsletter works great. On a long climb, I put just a bit of
rudder trim in and the plane climbs straight as an arrow. After accelerating
to cruise speed, I take out a bit of the trim and again it flies like an
arrow. I would do this again if I had it to do over again. It works and
does not have an ugly trim on the rudder. I can trim for any cruise speed.
Your idea about how to hook up the cable woud word just as well. One thing
that I noted is how little rudder trim movement is needed to keep in trim. I
allowed far too much control authority and can practically put my plane into
a slip if I put too much trim in. I have 40 pounds of trim authority at the
trailing edge of the rudder. That is far more than is required. Ten pounds
would probably be plenty. I do like the fact that my rudder cannot slam back
and forth in the wind and that my rudder cables are always tight. I always
thought that control cables were supposed to be tight at all times and that
was the impetus for designing the system in the first place.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Kukulski <kukulski(at)highfiber.com> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mike Kukulski
For those who have used Van's filtered airboxes, how have you modified
them to duct hot air from an exhaust mounted muff to the FAB alternate
air inlet. The design of the existing alternate air door actuator arm
doesn't provide for mounting a duct flange here.
I'd appreciate any ideas.
Cowl fitted; ready for airbox.
Mike Kukulski
RV-4 N96MK
kukulski(at)highfiber.com
Albuquerque, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <RNuckolls(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Master switch warning . . . |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
/Bob: What is the circut that is used in cars that runs the =
/"idiot lights", one of which is the ALT? When the car is not =
/running, the light is on. Could this be done using the Ford =
/regulator? Seems if cars do it, it should be easy........
/however.....
Sure, I think that would work too. My thinking was that
since the oil pressure switch exists for operating the
Hobbs anyway, why not get "the right switch" and get
an oil pressure warn PLUS master switch warn. I think I've
got a more intense interest in oil pressure than in alternator
ops . . . but your idea is sound.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rvbildr(at)juno.com |
--> RV-List message posted by: rvbildr(at)juno.com
Jim,
I missed your rudder trim article. Which issue was it in?
Thanks.
Mal
rvbildr(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog(at)aol.com
<< Looking at your electrical schematic p Z-5, revised 5/96; What is
the MOV unit depicted at two locations..battery Master Sw. and starter
contactor? >>
Ron-
Try Panasonic ERZ-C05DK180. This is a Metal Oxide Varistor and is available
from Digi-Key, Allied, Newark and others.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Observation on floor vibration -6 |
--> RV-List message posted by: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
>>>As a side issue has anyone else noticed fuel seepage from the top of the
>>>fuel selector valve that Van's supplies with the kit? This has started to
>>>leave the tell tale stain on the top surface of the selector support! Any
>>>special do's and don'ts here?
>>I had this happen at about 1 1/2 year point. Tried all of the magic stuff
>>to no avail. Finally , after talking to the people at Vans, put in a
>>selector from Piper. Worked great, no more seepage.
>Which fuel selector has been having this problem, the original three
>position or the current four position? If you are referring to the original
>three position, does the current selector being shipped solve this problem?
>
>Scott Gesele N506RV (Painting)
>
Scott; Mine was the 'original' as shipped by Vans about 4 to 5 years ago.
When I talked to them about 2 years ago about the problem, he said they had
a 'new' selector out . I haven't tried the 'new' selector by Vans.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | catbird(at)taylortel.com (TTC Carroll A. Bird) |
--> RV-List message posted by: catbird(at)taylortel.com (TTC Carroll A. Bird)
Ronald Vandervort wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Ronald Vandervort
>
> re: Aerolectric Connection
>
> Hello Bob,
> Looking at your electrical schematic p Z-5, revised 5/96; What is
> the MOV unit depicted at two locations..battery Master Sw. and starter
> contactor?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q, mocking up instrument panel
> rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap,lib.wa.us
> Seattle area
Ron:
This is a metal oxide varistor. Call Bob, He will sell them for
a buck each.
Carroll
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CWhig49723(at)aol.com |
--> RV-List message posted by: CWhig49723(at)aol.com
I finally received my wing kit , and was surprised that the shipping cost to
GA was just $148.00 . ABF Freight.
Chuck Whigham
RV6A
Cwhig49723(at)aol.com
inventory of wing kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PhilipR920(at)aol.com |
--> RV-List message posted by: PhilipR920(at)aol.com
Jim,
I have installed the trim system similar to what you describe, but don't get
anything close to forty pounds of force at the rudder.
I think the system will work as I have it installed, but would like to
understand how you measured the force.
Phil Rogerson
6AQ60057
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
--> RV-List message posted by: MAlexan533(at)aol.com
I have an extra momentary switch on top of my control stick in my RV-4, and
would like to set this switch up to control 'flaps up'. I think this feature
would make the aircraft much easier to land with the ability to put up the
flaps at the moment of touch down. This aircraft and the RV-6 have a tendency
toward bouncing due to the spring gear. We used to use this technique on
manual gear Mooneys and it worked great. The jet-liners use it also. How
about some input on this?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | turn coordinator |
--> RV-List message posted by: MAlexan533(at)aol.com
Question; The ball on my turn coordinator sits half off to the left when the
aircraft is sitting, as well as in flight. How do I get it centered? The
instrument seems to be sitting level in the instrument panel. The only thing
I can think of is to slightly turn the instrument in its hole until the ball
is centered and then remount it. Is this correct?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Mowrer" <rkymtn(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | RMI microEncoder & Voltage Transients |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Mowrer"
This is in response to a thread started when Bill Benedict mentioned that
they had three "code" crashes of a Rocky Mountain Instrument microEncoder
in the Van's RV8 caused by voltage transients.
The fault is in the reset circuit. This circuit monitors the internal
voltage powering the micro controller (MCU) and other ICs. When the
voltage drops below a level for reliable operation, the reset circuit
forces the MCU into reset. It also holds the MCU in reset during power up.
Reset must be asserted a certain amount of time until the MCU has time to
get all its internal circuits synchronized. With the right (or wrong, from
our point of view) conditions, the buss voltage forces the internal voltage
below the reset point and then back out of reset in less than the time
needed by the MCU to get properly reset. The "crazy" MCU would then write
a couple of bad bytes into the non-volatile memory... leaving the pilot
with a "tables error" message.
The microEncoder was introduced in 1989, and since that time, whenever this
upset did happen, we sent the customer a power line choke to install
between the aircraft buss and the unit to smooth out the voltage
transients... with excellent results. We still have seven power line
chokes left out of the twenty-four ordered since the symptom first
occurred.
As best as I know, Van's got their first microEncoder and installed it in
the RV6B about March '94 and used it without trouble. A second microEncoder
was shipped in May '95 for the RV8. This second unit was returned to us
with a "tables error" in December '95 (seven months later) and was returned
(as per our normal fix) with a power line choke and how to install it.
That same unit was returned after another 12 months service with the same
"tables error". This DID set the red flags showing and I searched for a
solution other than the power line choke. A new reset circuit was designed
using a new IC that has a built-in reset pulse width (time in reset) no
matter that the input power drop is very brief. This hand-built reset
circuit was installed in Van's unit and returned with a note that the
problem should never happen again. Apparently, while we installed the
reset circuit (about a week), Van's removed the older unit from the RV6B
and put it in the RV8. Sure enough, six months later (5/97), that unit
showed up here with a "tables error", and was also treated to the new reset
circuit.
Although the power line choke had appeared to fix previous occurrences, we
decided at that time to install the new reset unit in all future units, as
we agree with Bob Nuckolls that the end user shouldn't have to deal with
the potential failure. The new reset is a small surface mount IC installed
on a small PC board that plugs into the socket where the current reset IC
is installed. All the parts for the new reset are in-house and will be
shipped to an assembler next week. All current customers will be advised
of the availability of the new free reset circuit in an upgrade notice as
soon as available... along with information about new software features
etc. that may have been added since their purchase. Since this problem has
appeared on the RV list and needed a response, you have advance notice of
our intentions.
RMI really values our customers and strives to excel in our customer
service/support, warranty policy, and products.
Regards,
Ron Mowrer
/^\
/\/ \ Rocky Mountain Instrument
/ RMI \ http://rkymtn.com
(307) 864-9300 (vox/fax)
--------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
--> RV-List message posted by: mikel(at)dimensional.com
>For those who have used Van's filtered airboxes, how have you modified
>them to duct hot air from an exhaust mounted muff to the FAB alternate
>air inlet.
Mike: I mounted a 2 inch aluminum flange from Aircraft Spruce at the area
that is supposed to be open for the engine compartment air inlet. Problem
is, there is not enough area in the 2 inch flange for full air flow, so I
also have some of the original opening left open. I cut off most of the
rear facing flange part and riveted it to the box on the front of the flange
that is left, running a hose from my heat muff to the flange. Seems to work
well.
flange
carb here
___[ ]______________________
l
l air box
l | From: | vans(at)europa.com |
--> RV-List message posted by: vans(at)europa.com
We at Van's are looking into various manufacturers of high pressure (for
fuel injected engines) fuel boost pumps. Does anyone have experience with
any vendors? Does anyone know the phone number of Dukes or Weldon,
manufacturers of fuel pumps? We are aware of Airflow Performance, so we
don't need their number.
Thanks, Bill
Bill Benedict G.M.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scott.fink(at)Microchip.COM (Scott Fink) |
| Subject: | Re: turn coordinator |
--> RV-List message posted by: scott.fink(at)Microchip.COM (Scott Fink)
--IMA.Boundary.556050668
--> RV-List message posted by: MAlexan533(at)aol.com
Question; The ball on my turn coordinator sits half off to the left
The mounting holes in my Cherokee are actually mounting slots that allows
you to rotate the TC to center the ball in a level attitude when mounting
it. I plan to drill two holes in each screw location and file out the
material between them to make short arc slots so I can turn it in my RV6
(when I get there).
Scott Fink
RV6- working on left wing
--IMA.Boundary.556050668
SMTP
-0700
(firewall-user@prometheus-gate.Microchip.COM [198.175.253.129]) by
titan.Microchip.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA20517 for
smap (3.2)
From: aol.com!MAlexan533(at)matronics.com
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:51:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RV-List: turn coordinator
--IMA.Boundary.556050668--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob Skinner
>--> RV-List message posted by: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
>
>
>>>>As a side issue has anyone else noticed fuel seepage from the top of the
>>>>fuel selector valve that Van's supplies with the kit? This has started to
>>>>leave the tell tale stain on the top surface of the selector support! Any
>>>>special do's and don'ts here?
>>>I had this happen at about 1 1/2 year point. Tried all of the magic stuff
>>>to no avail. Finally , after talking to the people at Vans, put in a
>>>selector from Piper. Worked great, no more seepage.
>
>>Which fuel selector has been having this problem, the original three
>>position or the current four position? If you are referring to the original
>>three position, does the current selector being shipped solve this problem?
>>
>>Scott Gesele N506RV (Painting)
>>
>Scott; Mine was the 'original' as shipped by Vans about 4 to 5 years ago.
>When I talked to them about 2 years ago about the problem, he said they had
>a 'new' selector out . I haven't tried the 'new' selector by Vans.
>John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
>Stephenville TX
>johnd@our-town.com
Fellow RVers,
I believe that Van's is now shipping a four way valve. This valve has a
"delrin spool" instead of the brass spool. The all brass valve tended to
bind up as the brass spool galled on the brass seat. For those having
problems with the old brass, three way valve, you can buy a new 3 way valve
with the delrin spool. This way, you won't have to do any changing of the
fuel lines or mount plate. My original valve wore out after 100 or so hours
and I replaced it with the delrin which has operated for 250 hours with no
problems. It seems that the clicks are more pronounced on the newer valve.
The original problem was leakage out of the top. I just took my old
brass-on-brass valve apart and don't see any type of packing at the top
where the stem exits the nut (may have lost some of the parts?) If this is
true, I assume fuel is leaking past the spool and, if so, I'd guess there is
no way to stop the leak but to purchase a new valve. ***Just a wild guess
as I'm not a valve expert.***
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)navix.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: turn coordinator |
--> RV-List message posted by: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
That is the right thing to do to get the ball to center - the mounting on my Deb
is
slotted.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- On main gear
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RodWoodard <rodwoodard(at)mcione.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RMI microEncoder & Voltage Transients |
--> RV-List message posted by: RodWoodard
Hi Ron:
I'm a member of the rv-list and I'd like to thank you for your great
response. You've definitely got my business for the microEncoder when the
time comes.
I also wanted to maybe set your mind at ease... I've been a subscriber to
the rv-list for about the last 2 years and 99.9% of the comments with
regard to your products are very positive. I just don't want you to think
that the recent thread was a real big deal.
Best regards,
Rod Woodard
Loveland, Colorado
RV-8, #80033
----------
> From: Ron Mowrer <trib.com!rkymtn(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: RMI microEncoder & Voltage Transients
> Date: Wednesday, June 11, 1997 7:58 AM
>
> RMI really values our customers and strives to excel in our customer
> service/support, warranty policy, and products.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ron Mowrer
>
>
> /^\
> /\/ \ Rocky Mountain Instrument
> / RMI \ http://rkymtn.com
> (307) 864-9300 (vox/fax)
> --------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <RNuckolls(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | RMI microEncoder & Voltage Transients |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
/This is in response to a thread started when Bill Benedict =
/mentioned that they had three "code" crashes of a Rocky =
/Mountain Instrument microEncoder in the Van's RV8 caused =
/by voltage transients.
/The fault is in the reset circuit. This circuit monitors . . .
/
/
/
/ . . . . we decided at that time to install the new reset unit =
/in all future units, as we agree with Bob Nuckolls that the =
/end user shouldn't have to deal with the potential failure. =
/The new reset is a small surface mount IC installed . . .
/
/
/ . . . . Since this problem =
/has appeared on the RV list and needed a response, you have =
/advance notice of our intentions.
/ RMI really values our customers and strives to excel in our =
/customer service/support, warranty policy, and products.
I've only spoken with Ron a few times on the phone and
for minutes at a time at OSH but when this topic came up,
I remember betting that we were going to hear from him and
that his attitude and services were going to be in support
of his customers. Now if the great PMA-TSO-CERTIFIED shops
which most of general aviation holds in high esteme could
be so responsive. But they cannot . . . almost as if it were
by design. Large corporation policy is set by committee and
committees tend give you a very middle-of-the-road, average =
solution. The "little guys" like Ron M., Bill B. can make =
an executive decision while talking out your problems
on the phone . . . these folk and their peers stand out as
some of amateur built aviations most sterling assets.
Bob . . .=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Michael Angiulo
" I do like the fact that my rudder cannot slam back
> and forth in the wind and that my rudder cables are always tight. I
> always
> thought that control cables were supposed to be tight at all times and
> that
> was the impetus for designing the system in the first place."
>
>
There is one good reason to not have the cables be too tight at idle. I
was doing some tailwheel training in a champ the other day and on
landing rollout the tailwheel shimmied very strongly. The tailwheel on
the plane was known to be too big and the bearing was loose but the
result was that one of the two chains going to the tailwheel snapped.
The opposing spring then turned the tailwheel trying to groundloop the
plane. Fortunately enough rudder countered that and the plane slowed
down. Basically the point is that if you have forces applied by springs
that are strong, if one side breaks you end up with a big turning force
applied at what can be a pretty inopportune time. Just something to
consider during rigging.
-Mike
RV8 #80047
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: FI Boost pumps |
--> RV-List message posted by: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Wasn't someone using Mazda a fuel injection car fuel pump with success?
I can probably find a Dukes number. They are installed in Beechies. Just
recently I got a message from them that my pump was likely to fail and destroy
everything else unless I sent them a huge wad of money and I think the phone
number was there. I think they are called Dukes, Inc. No web page
www.dukes.com.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- On main gear
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
>
> We at Van's are looking into various manufacturers of high pressure (for
> fuel injected engines) fuel boost pumps. Does anyone have experience with
> any vendors? Does anyone know the phone number of Dukes or Weldon,
> manufacturers of fuel pumps? We are aware of Airflow Performance, so we
> don't need their number.
> Thanks, Bill
>
> Bill Benedict G.M.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)A.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grounding questions |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Barnhart
Bob:
>Just found your original about the ground block and
>solder sleeves. Did we get all your questions answered?
Except one:
Back to those terminal blocks...
I have a couple of spots, though, where I could use *something* like that:
1. I have an 'Audio' circuit, which powers the intercom, CD player, and two
Bose headsets. It would be convienient to run one wire from the Circuit
Breaker to a convieniently-located terminal block and have the wiring to
the four items branch out from there.
2. I have a small 'Hot Battery DC Bus' for things like a clock and the
'keep-alive' on a couple of electronic items. Again, it would be
convienient to use a terminal block.
What would you use instead?
BTW, you asked if I had ever seen them used in a [production] airplane.
While I have not seen the ACS/Radio Shack terminal blocks (with a double
row of terminals) used in an airplane, I *have* seen something similar used
quite often. I don't know what you call it (except a terminal block), but
it is a single row of terminals, each is a #8 stud, mounted in an insulator.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
ev-6 sn 23744 N601DB
installing electrical and avionics
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | aileron bellcrank bushings |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Benedict
Steve, I put the bait out and no one jumped on it as to what clearance is
needed between the bushing and the 4130 tube of the bellcrank. A quick
check in a table of *Coefficient of thermal expansion* (which did not
specifically call out 4130 steel, show that brass and stainless steel both
have similar rates of expansion which indicates there is little chance of
one expanding more than the other, thus binding is not a problem.
This whole discussion gets down to the point that you can probably just
clean the hole up, slide the brass bushing in and it will be good
indefinitely. Van has been using the brass and steel tube concept in the
control columns of the 4 and 6's for years, and to my knowledge, there has
not been a problem. One of the characteristics of the RV controls is how
smooth and bind-free they are, so I think this is a non problem Bill
>--> RV-List message posted by: spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com (Stephen Paul Johnson)
>
>Bill wrote:
>>
>
>>can be debated, but this seems to be the convention we use. So, I
>guess no
>>one really needs a 0.249 reamer for the center, although it would be
>>cleaner than running a drill bit through, but you could use a reamer
>to
>>clean up the tube in the bellcrank. This will be 0.375+ inches. Lets
>start
>>a discussion on exactly what size it should be with comments from the
>>appropriate people.
>>
>
>Bill, thanks very much for clearing this up. I have some concern as to
>what the clearance should be between the bushing and the bellcrank to
>allow the bellcrank to turn without binding over the wide temperature
>range the plane will operate in. In particular, is distortion of the
>bellcrank at temperature extremes due to built in stresses from the
>welding a possibility?
>
>Steve Johnson
>
>RV-8 #80121
>
>
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | RMI microEncoder & voltage transients |
--> RV-List message posted by: "les williams"
WOW! This is the real POWER OF THE LIST in action. I just last week received
my microEncoder kit, and after reading Bill's comments, I really questioned
whether or not I should keep it or return it. I certainly don't want
an electronic gismo that might go blip out in the middle of nowhere when I
am using it for a primary flight instrument! It isn't like you can pull it
and run
to the nearest aviation supply store and pick up a replacement!
I'm glad that Mr. Mowrer responded so quickly and offered up a "fix" for
their product. But I wonder how long it would have been, and under what other
circumstances this reaction would have been taken, if it were not for the
"list"?
I like the features of the microEncoder and hope that the experiences of Van's
as related by Bill, is an isolated case. I would still like to use it, I
think! Does anybody have any other comments, good or bad about it?
Thanks,
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/N24LW (res)/finish kit/RV-6A N299LJ sold 10/95
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RMI microEncoder & Voltage Transients |
--> RV-List message posted by: Denny Harjehausen
>>
>> RMI really values our customers and strives to excel in our customer
>> service/support, warranty policy, and products.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Ron Mowrer
>>
>>
>> /^\
>> /\/ \ Rocky Mountain Instrument
>> / RMI \ http://rkymtn.com
>> (307) 864-9300 (vox/fax)
>> --------------------------------------
>
I have just started to build the RMI units, but I find Ron's support excellent.
Have A Great Day!
Denny
Denton Harjehausen
retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com
RV-6/ Fuselage
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
--> RV-List message posted by: JamesCone(at)aol.com
I used a fish scale and pulled on the trailing edge against the offset
trimmed rudder.
Jim
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
--> RV-List message posted by: JamesCone(at)aol.com
The article about the rudder trim was in the October, 1996 issue. If you did
not get that issue the 1996 back issues are $5.00. Same goes for 1995
issues.
Jim Cone, Editor
Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing Newsletter
422 Savannah Ridge Drive
St. Charles, MO 63303
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gordon_Munck(at)pilotrock.k12.or.us (Gordon Munck) |
| Subject: | unsubscribe gordon_munck(at)pilotrock.k12.or.us |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gordon_Munck(at)pilotrock.k12.or.us (Gordon Munck)
unsubscribe gordon_munck(at)pilotrock.k12.or.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin lane <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
--> RV-List message posted by: kevin lane
>--> RV-List message posted by: Michael Angiulo
>
> " I do like the fact that my rudder cannot slam back
>> and forth in the wind and that my rudder cables are always tight. I
>> always
>> thought that control cables were supposed to be tight at all times and
>> that
>> was the impetus for designing the system in the first place."
>>
>>. Basically the point is that if you have forces applied by springs
>that are strong, if one side breaks you end up with a big turning force
>applied at what can be a pretty inopportune time. Just something to
>consider during rigging.
>
so how do you explain this to us 6A guys? :=)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy, Oh MY Canopy, Part Deaux |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ronald Vandervort
Hello Jim,
A question on your statement; " Take a look at the angle of the Plexiglass
relative to the level line where it will set on the roll-over bar. Raise
the sliding part of the frame so that it follows this line."
Without the canopy setting on the roll-over bar this appears to be guess
work... finding that line. Am I missing something?
Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q
Seattle area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wes Hays <whays(at)tenet.edu> |
| Subject: | Visiting Great Northwest! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Wes Hays
Becky and I will be visiting in the Washington/Oregon area from 6/18 thru
7/1 and would really like to see some of the RV's in the area. We are
building a 6A, and are naturally interested in the 6's. So, If you would
not mind sharing your project, or me *picking your brain* I would
appreciate the opportunity to visit. Please e-mail me off line with name,
address and phone so we can call if we are close to you. We will be
traveling up Hwy 101 on vacation.
TIA
Wes Hays
6A, (Assembling left wing)
whays(at)tenet.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott M. Kuebler" <keebs(at)buffnet.net> |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Scott M. Kuebler"
I have a question on how to fabricate the HS-610 & HS-614. On drawing
3-PP there are two holes labeled "drill in assembly with fuselage" and
"drill in assembly with ribs". I know these holes are not to be
riveted, but should I pilot drill them with a #40 before assembly of the
front spar?
Thanks in advance,
Scott Kuebler
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com (Stephen Paul Johnson) |
| Subject: | aileron bellcrank bushings |
--> RV-List message posted by: spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com (Stephen Paul Johnson)
You wrote:
>
>This whole discussion gets down to the point that you can probably
just
>clean the hole up, slide the brass bushing in and it will be good
>indefinitely. Van has been using the brass and steel tube concept in
the
>control columns of the 4 and 6's for years, and to my knowledge,
there has
>not been a problem. One of the characteristics of the RV controls is
how
>smooth and bind-free they are, so I think this is a non problem Bill
>
Bill,
Thanks for the response. I'm glad it's a non problem and will just go
with all those hours of flying experience by your builders.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shipping cost |
--> RV-List message posted by: Craig Hiers <CRAIG-RV-4.@worldnet.att.net>
aol.com!CWhig49723(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: CWhig49723(at)aol.com
>
> I finally received my wing kit , and was surprised that the shipping cost to
> GA was just $148.00 . ABF Freight.
>
> Chuck Whigham
> RV6A
> Cwhig49723(at)aol.com
> inventory of wing kit.
Chuck
Wait until you get the finishing kit, it was over 300$ to Tallahassee.
This airplane is costing a fortune.
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
Installing the electrical system
________________________________________________________________________________
--> RV-List message posted by: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
The tailwheel on
>the plane was known to be too big and the bearing was loose but the
>result was that one of the two chains going to the tailwheel snapped.
>The opposing spring then turned the tailwheel trying to groundloop the
>plane. Fortunately enough rudder countered that and the plane slowed
>down. Basically the point is that if you have forces applied by springs
>that are strong, if one side breaks you end up with a big turning force
>applied at what can be a pretty inopportune time. Just something to
>consider during rigging.
Mike;
Not to argue the point, but if memory serves me, I think the T-6 and the
P-51 had tight rudder cables but NO springs. I know that I had problems
when rigging my RV6 bird, couldn't get the cables tight for that 'twang' I
remembered from the early days. Called Vans and they said they were not
tight. The springs I remember on the two birds were to help adjust the
rudder pedals for depth, or length of leg.
Seems like they were sort of a closed circuit or cable loop type of thing.
You are sure right about the big turning force at a bad time. Piper
Colt, landing, right rudder pedal went to fire wall, left rudder pedal to
fire wall- both of them at firewall!!!! Very tight circle to the right.
Rudder cable swedge on left side of rudder had come 'unswedged'. Changed
drawers, swedged correctly and tested with gauge and flew again.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grounding questions |
--> RV-List message posted by: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
>While I have not seen the ACS/Radio Shack terminal blocks (with a double
>row of terminals) used in an airplane, I *have* seen something similar used
Dave;
These gizmos worked fine for me. I used the Radio Shack terminal block
for three things. First for grounding block. The stud type thing fast
began to look like a rosette of wires, so I put in one of the blocks of I
believe 8 per side, grounded the strip to the single ground and tied the
rest to the block. Don't know if Bob approves of it or not, been thinking
of asking him one day. The 'bad grounding' thing in civilian a/c is like
the A/F 'I aint the regular crew chief'.
The other place I used it is for instrument light and dimmer. Took the
power wire to the bus bar, then off of it to the instruments. Sure
simplified wiring for me and at a very reasonable price.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Selector |
--> RV-List message posted by: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
>Fellow RVers,
> I believe that Van's is now shipping a four way valve. This valve has a
>"delrin spool" instead of the brass spool. The all brass valve tended to
>bind up as the brass spool galled on the brass seat. For those having
>problems with the old brass, three way valve, you can buy a new 3 way valve
>with the delrin spool. This way, you won't have to do any changing of the
>fuel lines or mount plate. My original valve wore out after 100 or so hours
>and I replaced it with the delrin which has operated for 250 hours with no
>problems. It seems that the clicks are more pronounced on the newer valve.
> The original problem was leakage out of the top. I just took my old
>brass-on-brass valve apart and don't see any type of packing at the top
>where the stem exits the nut (may have lost some of the parts?) If this is
>true, I assume fuel is leaking past the spool and, if so, I'd guess there is
>no way to stop the leak but to purchase a new valve. ***Just a wild guess
>as I'm not a valve expert.***
Bob is right about the valve. My original did have a very hard red material
as a packing, but it was badly gauled when the leak at the stem occurred.
The Piper valve that I got from the local FBO was 3 port, fit the same holes
as the original, and you will not believe this, but he charged me less than
what Vans wanted for the 4 port valve. The Piper does have the 'plastic'
spool in it. Mounting wise, it leaves the OFF position at the 7:30 point,
LEFT at 10:30, RIGHT at 1:30. Worked for me.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rvbildr(at)juno.com |
--> RV-List message posted by: rvbildr(at)juno.com
Jim,
Can you answer a couple of stupid questions about the rudder trim, as
illustrated in your Oct '96 newsletter?
1. Is the large pulley a single pulley? What are the approx. diameters of
both pulleys?
2. Is the cable continuous from one spring to the other, going around
both pulleys and connected by the turnbuckle?
3. What is the vertical surface just aft of the small pulley? Is it a
bracket of some kind?
4. Lastly, what is the shaft made of and how did you anchor it to the
firewall?
Thanks much.
Mal
rvbildr(at)juno.com
RV-6 finishing kit started.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: HS Front Spar |
<339FECAF.2159(at)buffnet.net>
| From: | ab6a(at)juno.com (ALLAN E POMEROY) |
--> RV-List message posted by: ab6a(at)juno.com (ALLAN E POMEROY)
writes:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Scott M. Kuebler"
>
>I have a question on how to fabricate the HS-610 & HS-614. On drawing
>3-PP there are two holes labeled "drill in assembly with fuselage" and
>"drill in assembly with ribs". I know these holes are not to be
>riveted, but should I pilot drill them with a #40 before assembly of
>the
>front spar?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Scott Kuebler
>RV-6
>
Scott,
I have the older, non-prepunched version, so I'm taking a guess
here as I'm not familiar with the PP kits and their instructions. I have
not pilot drilled mine and do not recommend pilot drilling at those
points, especially where it says "drill in assembly with fuselage". If
you go ahead and drill anyway, you may end up with a major problem with
alignment of pieces or insufficient edge distances. With my kit, when it
says to "drill in assembly with -----", I figure it's for a reason.
Allan Pomeroy CNY
AB6A(at)juno.com
HS, beginning skinning
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: phone number |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Austin Tinckler"
----------
> From: Austin Tinckler <tinckler(at)axionet.com>
> The European Union commissioners announced recently that
> agreement has been reached to adopt English as the preferred language
> standard for European communications, rather than German, which was the
> other possibility.
> As part of the negotiations, the British conceded that
> English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a
five-year
> phased plan for what will be known as EuroEnglish (Euro for short).
> In the first year, "s" will be used instead of the soft
"c".
> Sertainly,sivil servants will resieve this news with joy.
> Also, the hard "c" will be replased with "k". Not only
will
> this klear up konfusion, but typewriters kan have one less letter.
> There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond
year,
> when the troublesome "ph" will be replased by "f". This will make words
> like "fotograf" 20 per sent shorter.
> In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling
kan
> be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are
possible.
> Governments will enkorage the removal of double letters,
> which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling.
> Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of silent "e"s in
> the languag is disgrasful, and they would go.
> By the forth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such
as
> replasing "th" by "z" and "w" by "v". During ze fifz year, ze unesesary
"o"
> kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou", and similar changes vud of kors
be
> aplid to ozer kombinations of leters.
> After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl.
> Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu
> understand ech ozer.
> Ze drem vil finali kum tru.
Now I hop zat al ze RV bilders in ze vorld kan komunikat mor ezily viz vun
anozer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bumflyer(at)aol.com |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bumflyer(at)aol.com
I heard of cracks on the flange or FAB where the hose attached to the FAB,
since there is a lot of vibration and relative movement. Therefore I used a
piece of air seal rubber (from the baffle seal material) to form a new
'ceiling' for the FAB. It is riveted on forward three inches of the top of
the FAB. I then cut a two inch hole in it and riveted on a two inch flange
which I got from John Evens. This provides a good seal and plenty of
vibration damping. The engine appears to get plenty of air through the two
inch hole as I have tried it at high power settings.
This is about the only brainstorm which I have had which seems to be working
out well, so would appreciate any feedback.
If you plan ahead, you could use this top piece of rubber to form the top of
your cowling to FAB seal.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Nutplate Question - Summary |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV4Brown(at)aol.com
My thanks to all those who responded to the question? How do you install
nutplates on material less than 0.032 in thickness. I thought a summary of
the suggestions, all of which have worked for people would be beneficial.
1. One way is to dimple the nut
plates. This is easily done with either the Avery "C" tool or a pnuematic
squezzer. You may have to "relieve" the female die a bit for clearance.
The other method is simply to set the nutplate on top of the dimples. This,
of course, leaves a little space between the nutplate and the sheet but
whether the nutplate sits high or flush, the shear force on the attach
rivets is the same, right? I'm bias towards dimpling the nut plate as the
nesting of the dimples helps keep the threaded part of the nutplate lined up
with the drilled hole.
2. Use 1097AD3-3.5 also known as cheater rivets. They have a very small
head so you can countersink enough in the thin metal. The rivets aren't
structual they only need to keep the nutplate from spinning.
There are also glue on nutplates which work great but they're pretty
expensive.
3. I followed the Frank Justice method of dimpling the nutplates. I found
this satisfactory using either my Cleveland or my Avery dies. I also
always use the smaller NAS rivets for nutplates so that a couple of twists
of the deburring tool gives me the required countersink depth.
4. I decided to use pre-dimpled nutplates in a lot of areas which allowed me
to
dimple the rib or skin involved. I thought of use the 'oops' rivets but
decided
that I liked the dimpled nutplates better in most instances though it is a
higher cost approach. This short cross reference may be of interest FWIW.
Size/Style 2 leg 1 leg
2
leg - flat head screw 1 leg - flat head screw
K-1000 type K-2000 type
K-1100
type
6-32 MS 21047-L06 MS21051-L06 MS21049-L06
MS21053-L06
8-32 MS21047-L08 MS21051-L08 MS21049-L08
MS21053-L08
10-32 MS21047-L3 MS21051-L3 MS21049-L3
MS20153-L3
1/4 MS21047-L4 MS21051-L4 MS21049-L4
MS21053-L4
Add the suffix 'K" to the end of the number to denote dimpled rivet holes.
For
example a dimpled one leg nutplate for a 8-32 screw would be MS21051-L08K.
If
anyone knows where they can get dimpled plate nuts for a flat head 6-32 screw
(MS21049-L06K) I would love to know. I have been unable to find a source.
I found the folks at Bon Aero (209-795-22363, Avery, CA) to be a good source
but
am sure there are lots of others.
5. I am currently putting my nutplates into the fusalage. I am using a
shaved down version dimple dies and dimpling the nutplates. This method
has worked out great.
6. The other method is to use a double plate to allow for machine
countersinking.
I choose to use the predimpled nutplates. My appologies to Steve
Barnard, I had ordered the plates prior to your post. I ordered from Genuine
Aircraft Products. Their number was in the " RV Yeller Pages" The cost was
nominal - approx 25 cents per nutplate.
My thanks again to Bob Skinner, Chris Brooks, Les Williams, Jim Ayers,
Larry Pardue, Jim Cone, Stan Blanton, Steve Barnard, Steven Soule, Bryon
Maynard, and others (who responses were accidently deleted before this post)
for taking the time to respond! It makes the list worth while.
Tom Brown - RV4
fuselage in Jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: aileron bellcrank bushings |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV4Brown(at)aol.com
My thanks to Bill for elaborating of Van's philosphy behind the bushing
and bearing designs! You may want to consider adding your post to the
written portion of the RV plans or make some notations on the drawings for
future builders. I don't think I am alone in the way I interpreted the plans
and Van's intent.
My apologies to anyone I misled on the list with my response. I was
obviously wrong relative to what Van intended. While not in strict
accordance with the plans, for my personal RV craft, I will be using safety
wired bolts and nuts on all control rod bearing bolts.
Tom Brown - RV4
fuselage in Jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Aluminum dust in your eyes |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV4Brown(at)aol.com
The following while not fatal is most irritating. I thought I would pass
this along for what it was worth. My workshop is a double car garage that is
fairly well sealed from outside ventilation. After three years of RV
construction and many comments from my colleagues, I noticed a strong
correlation between using my 6 inch 3M grinding wheel on aluminum and chronic
eye irritation. (What can I say, I'm a little slow) I also noticed that after
months of grinding, there was a fairly thick layer of black aluminum oxide
dust all over the shop. One morning when the sun was shining through the shop
window and I happened to be grinding a piece of aluminum, I noticed just how
much dust became airborne and remained airborne from this operation. I do
wear prescription safety glasses with side shields at all times in the shop.
(one hazard of being over forty years old - require glasses.) This obviously
protects from the large chunks but is insufficient to protect from the
aluminum and grinding wheel dust.
The solution I came up with is as follows: I adapted a Sears dust
collector from my radial arm saw that connects to my shop vac to collect the
particulate as it is produced. This seems to help. With warmer weather, I
will open the wndows as well.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HS Front Spar |
--> RV-List message posted by: Edward Cole
Scott M. Kuebler wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Scott M. Kuebler"
>
> I have a question on how to fabricate the HS-610 & HS-614. On drawing
> 3-PP there are two holes labeled "drill in assembly with fuselage" and
> "drill in assembly with ribs". I know these holes are not to be
> riveted, but should I pilot drill them with a #40 before assembly of the
> front spar?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Scott Kuebler
> RV-6
Scott,
"Drill in assembly with"...means just that. Don't drill anything until
you see where the holes need to go. Even if the drawing suggests a
location, wait until you are at that point before drilling. Otherwise,
you may be in for some surprises.
Ed Cole-RV6A left wing finally done!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Saare <John.Saare(at)Eng.Sun.COM> |
| Subject: | Chatter: RMI microEncoder & voltage transients |
--> RV-List message posted by: John Saare
I'd like to offer another power supply related story. My uEncoder has been
installed in a 1948 Bonanza since appx. 1991. There have been absolutely
NO problems with the unit. I loaded the calibration tables, ONCE, six
years ago. The unit's 14/28 regulator has been one of the reasons, I'm
sure.
A few years back, I had the Skytronics alternator upgrade installed
on my plane. It failed, bigtime (no, there were no wiring errors). Every
piece of avionics in the plane, EXCEPT the uEncoder, was fried. Smoked.
Literally. Skytronics behaved in pretty much the way one would expect
a podunk little certificate holder would act, fearful of anything that
might require a change in their paperwork. They denied ever having heard
of such problems (I've since spoken with 2 other early Bonanza owners and
another gentleman who does regular business with Skytronics who all described
the exact same problem).
When I'm in a real rant mode, I love telling the story of the little
uncertificated instrument I built from a kit that got hit with the
unregulated, certificated output of a certificated alternator that
blew the hell out of a pile of certificated avionics (some of which
were BFN). And it keeps on ticking.
Way to go RMI!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNES_ERIC(at)tandem.com |
--> RV-List message posted by: BARNES_ERIC(at)tandem.com
Hey Scott,
Pretty unclear, huh? I pilot drilled all the holes, like the
instructions explicitly say, thinking that the holes you mention were to
be *drilled to 3/16ths* (I think I have that right - what ever the final
size) with the fuselage assembly. That seems to be what the plans seem
to indicate, not that it shouldn't be drilled at all.
In any case, it was posted here a few months ago that the emp. to fuse.
holes should NOT be drilled. I'm crossing my fingers, hoping the first
assembly I built doesn't also become the last assembly I build.
The pilot holes where the ribs go worked fine for me. However you can
always drill them later, when you put the ribs in, and you can't ever
undrill it. I've now made it a practice to look ahead, understand what
is going where, and when the last chance I'll have to drill/ rivet will
be.
EB #80131 (Camarillo Saturday, finish the rudder Sunday)
------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT --------
SENT 06-12-97 FROM SMTPGATE (keebs(at)buffnet.net)
--> RV-List message posted by: "Scott M. Kuebler"
I have a question on how to fabricate the HS-610 & HS-614. On drawing
3-PP there are two holes labeled "drill in assembly with fuselage" and
"drill in assembly with ribs". I know these holes are not to be
riveted, but should I pilot drill them with a #40 before assembly of the
front spar?
Thanks in advance,
Scott Kuebler
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stephen J. Soule"
I advise not drilling even pilot holes until you have the ribs or
fuselage in place (as the case may be).
Steve Soule
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | The 6th Annual Northwest RV Fly-In |
--> RV-List message posted by: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
You are invited to
THE SIXTH ANNUAL NORTHWEST RV FLY-IN
Scappoose Industrial Airpark
Scappoose, Oregon
Saturday June 21, 1997, 10:00am
Sponsored by
Van's Air Force, Home Wing
This is the premier RV event of the Northwest (well all right, Van's
Homecoming is pretty good too....) with good food, souvener t-shirts,
lots of great RV camraderie. Last year we had over 60 RVs. So come
join the fun!
More information? Want to volunteer to help? Send email to fly-in
leader Don Wentz (jwentz@columbia-center.org), or call him at (503)
543-2298. Also, check out the web page, at
http://www.edt.com/homewing/flyin97.html
See you there!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: HS Front Spar |
--> RV-List message posted by: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
> I have a question on how to fabricate the HS-610 & HS-614. On drawing
> 3-PP there are two holes labeled "drill in assembly with fuselage" and
> "drill in assembly with ribs". I know these holes are not to be
> riveted, but should I pilot drill them with a #40 before assembly of the
> front spar?
Leave them un-drilled. Once the ribs/fuselage parts are
located then you will know where to drill the holes to maintain
proper edge distance from rib flange edges, longeron edges, etc.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: HS Front Spar |
--> RV-List message posted by: Frank van der Hulst
buffnet.net!keebs(at)matronics.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Scott M. Kuebler"
>
> I have a question on how to fabricate the HS-610 & HS-614. On drawing
>
> 3-PP there are two holes labeled "drill in assembly with fuselage" and
>
> "drill in assembly with ribs". I know these holes are not to be
> riveted, but should I pilot drill them with a #40 before assembly of
> the
> front spar?
No. Don't drill them at all yet. When you attach your ribs to the spar
(or attach the HS to the fuselage), you'll be drilling these holes. If
there are already holes there in slightly the wrong place, you may wind
up with figure-8 shaped holes.
See http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/bunny1.htm for other hints on building
the empennage.
Frank (building flaps)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv@pec.co.nz http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/
Frank van der Hulst, Software Engineer, Cardax, PEC(NZ) Ltd, Marton
"Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass; A good bookshop is just a genteel
Black Hole that knows how to read". Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Prepunched empenage tapes |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss
Hi,
Does anyone have a set of Prepunched empenage tapes that they are done
with? I'd like to buy or borrow them.
Charlie Kuss
waiting for RV-8 tail kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BigCfly001(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: HS Front Spar |
--> RV-List message posted by: BigCfly001(at)aol.com
Scott,
I just finished my HS so i am all to familar with this question. A
general rule of thumb is whenever the plans say "drill in assembly with" do
not drill until the parts are together.I learned this the hard way with my
610 & 614, I drilled the holes your reffering to.this caused rib [404]
problems.when i called vans for help they said "you hav'nt drilled those yet
have you?"oops!! luckily everything worked out[ after ordering two new 404's]
so the answer to your question is no do not drill these holes.life will be
much easier if you dont.
hope this helps.
chris marion
rv-6 building VS
cincy oh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net> |
| Subject: | Attention, George! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Don McNamara
Sorry to bother the list, but "Hey, George--I know you're out there!"
George Orndorff, I've looked through my electronic trash to find any old
message from you (for your e-mail address), but came up blank. Is the
video on RV-8 wings ready? My wangs are here, and without your video, I
don't think I even know how to open the crates!
Besides, this is a good opportunity for you to plug your videos. Please
post the price and address to the list, or mail me directly. Thanks!
--Don McNamara
mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Master switch warning . . . |
--> RV-List message posted by: mikel(at)dimensional.com
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>
>
> /Bob: What is the circut that is used in cars that runs the
> /"idiot lights", one of which is the ALT?
>
> Sure, I think that would work too. My thinking was that
> since the oil pressure switch exists for operating the
> Hobbs anyway, why not get "the right switch" and get
> an oil pressure warn PLUS master switch warn. I think I've
> got a more intense interest in oil pressure than in alternator
> ops . . . but your idea is sound.
>
Hey, Bob: Could you hash out such a circut and share it with us? I don't
have an oil pressure switch or hobbs meter and, at this point, would rather
have the alternator warning light (it is already IN the panel, I just don't
know what to do with it!!)
Thanks,
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Quick build v Normal kit |
--> RV-List message posted by: central-data <central-data@central-data.demon.co.uk>
I have now finished my work shop and ready to place an order for a RV6A
I am based in England and have had little contact with other builders
My main aim is to complete the plane in as shorter time as possible and
get down to some flying
Having compared the prices including import taxes etc there seems to be
a difference of approx $8000 between the cost of the Quick build and the
standard kit. I have also received information on Barnard Aircraft
components fast build wing etc. To me the quick build seems to be the
way to go
Could any one who has purchased the quick build kit advise me on the
quality of the build and whether they feel that the extra cost was worth
while .
Thanking you
David Powell central-data@central-data.demon.co.uk
--
central-data
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Denny Harjehausen
I read of a suggestion of using steel hinges on the lower firewall/cowl and
by the spinner. Has anyone had troubles out there in RV-land with the
aluminum higes in those areas or any other?
Thanks
Have A Great Day!
Denny
Denton Harjehausen
retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com
RV-6/ Fuselage
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J.C. Hassall" <jhassall(at)ipass.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6\6A Fuse Jig. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "J.C. Hassall"
>--> RV-List message posted by: Wesley T Robinson
>
>Does anyone know of a 6\6A fuse jig in the North Carolina, Virginia,
>South Carolina, Georgia, Tennesse area that I might be able to purchase?
>
>If not, how hard is it to actually build one?
>
>Wings done, Fuse here is a week
>Wesley Robinson
I finished canvassing the local RV builders, none of whom 1) was interested
in selling their fuse jig or 2) knew of one for sale.
Their consensus was build your own. It is reputed to be easy and
inexpensive. Unfortunately, I'm still in the wishing stage, so I have no
personal comments.
Good luck
J.C. Hassall
jhassall(at)ipass.net
RV-6 Builder Wannabe
Blacksburg VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Ciolino" <jbc1(at)ziplink.net> |
| Subject: | Rod end bearings on rudder |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John B. Ciolino"
RV-8 listers,
I am trying to line up the top rib on the rudder to match the top of the
HS. The plans call out a 13/16" height for the rod end bearings on the
elevators. But I can't find a similar dimension for the rod ends on the
rudder. What's the measurement?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Hinch <chris(at)dcc.govt.nz> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Chris Hinch
The April 1997 issue of RVator contains a photo of N58RV's instrument panel
(inside cover, upper right corner).
On the left hand side of the panel is what appears to be (to my *very*
untrained eye) an "all-in-one" digital engine management unit, with two
large and six small round indicators, as well as five 'level' displays.
The photo caption mentions a VMI VM1000. Is that what this is? Does anyone
have any imformation/opinions about it? Are there any web resources for the
product or company?
Thanks in advance for any and all help.
Chris
_______________________________________________________
Chris Hinch
Management Information Systems
Dunedin City Council, Dunedin, New Zealand
Internet : chris(at)dcc.govt.nz
NZ Fighter Pilots Museum: http://nzfpm.dcc.govt.nz/nzfpm/nzfpm.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Fritz <Qmax1(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shipping cost |
--> RV-List message posted by: Robert Fritz
re. costing a fortune.
Yeah but you wouldn't have it any other way. Besides, couldn't get it a=
ny
other way. Like the man sez. "A ride in an RV is the most expensive free=
ride I ever took.
Cheers
Bob Fritz
still working on the workshop and dreaming
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
--> RV-List message posted by: KBoatri144(at)aol.com
I'm seeking opinions on a fair price on a used O-360 A4M which I am
considering buying. The engine has 1100 hr since new, and was removed from a
wind-damaged airplane about 10 years ago and hasn't run since. It comes with
all accessories. Externally, the engine looks fine, internals are a
mystery. With plugs removed, the engine can be turned over using the flange.
The oil in the engine is clean.
The owner says the engine was stored in an air-conditioned workroom and was
turned over regularly. With plugs removed, you can turn over the engine
using the flange. I plan to pull a jug and look for rust before purchase.
Also, I've asked Lycoming for a list of AD's on the engine and will review
the log books to check for compliance. Otherwise, the logs appear OK. If
everything else checks out, and the price is right, I will pull a jug and
inspect the internals for rust before purchase.
The owner wants $10,900. Is this reasonable? If not, what is the market
value? Also, what other inspections should I conduct before purchase?
FWIW, with the engine sitting this long, I would do a complete tear down
before flying.
Responses are appreciated,
Kyle Boatright
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aileron bellcrank bushings |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Benedict
>--> RV-List message posted by: RV4Brown(at)aol.com
>
> My thanks to Bill for elaborating of Van's philosphy behind the bushing
> and bearing designs! You may want to consider adding your post to the
>written portion of the RV plans or make some notations on the drawings for
>future builders. I don't think I am alone in the way I interpreted the plans
>and Van's intent.
> My apologies to anyone I misled on the list with my response. I was
>obviously wrong relative to what Van intended. While not in strict
>accordance with the plans, for my personal RV craft, I will be using safety
>wired bolts and nuts on all control rod bearing bolts.
>
>Tom Brown - RV4
>fuselage in Jig
>
Tom, A lot of people prefer to use a castle nut and cotter pin and that
works fine. This is the nice thing about the Experimental category. If you
can do it better, there is nothing to stop you. Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin lane <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
--> RV-List message posted by: kevin lane
I am on the last stages of the airframe and beginning to think that Van
could produce a completed airplane with everything done except the nutplates
and still pass the 51% rule. I have been using those little rivets to
attach the nutplates. Typically I have been drilling the screw hole #30,
clecoeing the nutplate to the topside, drilling one retaining rivet(#40),
clecoeing that, and then drilling the other #40. Then enlarging the screw
hole to 11/64" and dimpling. A problem is that in the enlarging process the
hole center can move and the screw doesn't align too well. Today I tried
Doug Stenger's method and it seems to go faster and more accurately. 1.
Drill screw hole full size (11/64") 2. dimple 3. attach nutplate with screw
4. back drill retaining rivet holes. No clecoes needed, when you drive
the screw tight it will stay put for drilling. The secret is to tap a
nutplate so the screw runs up easily, and can simply be held with your
fingers while running it up. This also eliminated the problem of
discovering that a nutplate ear doesn't fit on the underside after you've
drilled it from the front side. Obviously this won't work in all locations.
The other thing I've been doing is to first put all the retaining rivets in
their holes, then hold the nutplate in place and carefully squeeze one just
barely so it holds the plate in place. After all the plates are "tacked" in
place, go back and fully squeeze all the rivets. This production line
method eliminate all the picking up, putting down wasted motions.
When I attached the rear wing spars to the fuse I was not happy with my
sloppy 5/16"fit, so decided to use a 3/8" tight tolerance bolt. I bought a
bit a few thousandths under but discovered that with aluminum it wanted to
just screw in rather than drill. The hand reamers are called "bridge and
boiler" reamers and have the tapered tip and square end to fit the handle.
Don't get an end cut reamer, apparently they're for drill presses. The hole
reamed out to .375, but the tight tol. bolts all measured .374, the std.
bolts about .372-.373. I would like to hear from a machinist type as to
what I should have done in regards to step drilling and sizes when it comes
to aircraft aliminum. Do you use .374 reamers? How much under do you
drill, 2 thou, 10 thousanths?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin lane <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
--> RV-List message posted by: kevin lane
I assisted in the rebuild of my carb. where we "upgraded" it to the metal
float and one piece venturi. The man I assisted has been doing this for
over 70 years. We we got done I noticed there were some "extra" pieces, two
lipped brass washers and a cork seal. Out of respect for the man whose
license was signed by Orville himself, I thanked him and said nothing more.
Does anyone have an exploded view of the carb.? I am guessing that the
brass washers retain the spring below the mixture arm, but would like to
confirm this. The parts can also fit over the accelerator pump shaft too.
I should have paid more attention during disassembly. It was amazing,
though, how after it all came apart, his white shirt and tie didn't have a
speck of dirt and my t-shirt was filthy!
kevin 6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bennett(at)healey.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum dust in your eyes |
--> RV-List message posted by: bennett(at)healey.com.au
> --> RV-List message posted by: RV4Brown(at)aol.com
. One morning when the sun was shining through the shop
> window and I happened to be grinding a piece of aluminum, I noticed just how
> much dust became airborne and remained airborne from this
operation.
Wear a respirator too. If you don't believe me, blow your nose at the
end of the day.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 building sliding canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H. Sutphin" <hsutphin(at)magicnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum dust in your eyes |
--> RV-List message posted by: "H. Sutphin"
We should all be wary of shop hazards, but what is it in your RV that
requires so much grinding? I have used an occasional cutting wheel and
even a few seconds on a 3/8 x 13 air sander, but never had to put _that
much_ dust into the air on the RV....
Harold
RV-6A
aol.com!RV4Brown(at)matronics.com wrote:
> After three years of RV
> construction and many comments from my colleagues, I noticed a strong
> correlation between using my 6 inch 3M grinding wheel on aluminum and chronic
> eye irritation. (What can I say, I'm a little slow) I also noticed that after
> months of grinding, there was a fairly thick layer of black aluminum
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Rick Osgood
Does anyone have the e-mail address for Frank Justice??
--
Rick Osgood
Rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough)
I read of a suggestion of using steel hinges on the lower firewall/cowl and
by the spinner. Has anyone had troubles out there in RV-land with the
aluminum higes in those areas or any other?
Denny, I have had the same piece of aluminium hinge crack twice in the same place.
It is one of the
short pieces near the spinner. This time I put a different hole pattern and it
seems ok. Another
suggestion is to bond the hinge on as well as rivet. Steel would probably be good
if you can find
the right stuff.
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AB320FLYER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: FLAPS UP SWITCH |
--> RV-List message posted by: AB320FLYER(at)aol.com
>>I have an extra momentary switch on top of my control stick in my RV-4, and
would like to set this switch up to control 'flaps up'. I think this feature
would make the aircraft much easier to land with the ability to put up the
flaps at the moment of touch down. This aircraft and the RV-6 have a tendency
toward bouncing due to the spring gear. We used to use this technique on
manual gear Mooneys and it worked great. The jet-liners use it also. How
about some input on this?<<
The jet-liners that I know about don't retract the flaps on landing, they
deploy spoilers automatically to dump the lift at at touchdown, and use drag
from the flaps to aid in deceleration. At the RV touchdown speeds the flap
drag obviously isn't as important, but could save some brake wear. I guess I
would be more concerned with momentarily diverting your attention to flap
retraction at touchdown, unless you're very comfortable with your airplane.
Joel Harding
ab320flyer(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HS Front Spar |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Gesele
>
>Pretty unclear, huh? I pilot drilled all the holes, like the
>instructions explicitly say, thinking that the holes you mention were to
>be *drilled to 3/16ths* (I think I have that right - what ever the final
>size) with the fuselage assembly. That seems to be what the plans seem
>to indicate, not that it shouldn't be drilled at all.
>
>In any case, it was posted here a few months ago that the emp. to fuse.
>holes should NOT be drilled. I'm crossing my fingers, hoping the first
>assembly I built doesn't also become the last assembly I build.
>
If the 8 is anything like the 6, I doubt that you will have a problem
because the emp/ fuse attachment holes were pilot drilled off the fuse.
When I drilled the HS to the fuse (holes were not pilot drilled prior), the
bolt holes were exactly where the pilot holes were indicated on the HS
drawings. Also, the structure that the HS rear spar attaches to has enough
"meat" to allow these holes to be moved quite a bit from side to side.
Scott Gesele N506RV (painting)
________________________________________________________________________________
--> RV-List message posted by: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
>by the spinner. Has anyone had troubles out there in RV-land with the
>aluminum higes in those areas or any other?
>
Denny;
FWIW, my alum. hinges, as per instructions. The left one at the spinner
cracked at 165 hours. I replaced the hinge with the same alum. as original.
Reasoning--would rather replace alum. hinge every 165 hours than the
fiberglass that it is attached to. Steel may not crack, but the stress is
going somewhere, fiberglass?
John Darby RV6 SOLD
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Price |
--> RV-List message posted by: Denny Harjehausen
(Snip)
>
> The owner wants $10,900. Is this reasonable? If not, what is the market
>value? Also, what other inspections should I conduct before purchase?
>
>FWIW, with the engine sitting this long, I would do a complete tear down
>before flying.
>
>Responses are appreciated,
>
>Kyle Boatright
>
>RV-6
>
All you plan to do sounds good. But it is too many dollars IMHO. I
purchased a Sea Hawk that was dribbled down the runway till the wing spar
broke, his first flight after buying it with partners observing. I guess it
wasn't a happy scene. When I finished sell off the parts the engine was a
little over $3000. It had 189 SMO by a A&P school in Seattle and 2500+
since new. Reasonal buy, right? Well the bottom line will be about $13000.
with a fresh major. This includes a cam replacement, crack exhaust port
repair on all four, some fancy work on the intake ports, new oil pump, etc.
I found a brand new IO-320 engine with a brand new C/S all in the crate with
the proper papers for $17,000, which I set a friend on to. What a friend am
I... Of course I had told my friend about the new engine and he had
purchased it before I knew what this one was going to cost me. I had an A &
P help in the purchase ( not the same one who is working on the engine,
naturally) and talked with the guy who had built the airplane and sold it to
the guy I got it from. I also talked with a fellow Sea Hawker with knowledge
of this particular engine. While they never told me technical falsehoods,
there were some ommisions in their story that would have made quite
difference in price offer. "Buyer Beware"..
Hope this tale helps, while it is not exactly a horror story, it isn't what
I had in mind as a bargin. The man who is reworking the engine is a guru in
the eyes of many in this neck of the woods, so maybe it will have a happy
ending. But still I vow never again, it gives one a nervous stomach...
Have A Great Day!
Denny
Denton Harjehausen
retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com
RV-6/ Fuselage
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n5lp(at)carlsbad.net (Larry Pardue) |
| Subject: | Re: Quick build v Normal kit |
--> RV-List message posted by: n5lp(at)carlsbad.net (Larry Pardue)
>--> RV-List message posted by: central-data
><central-data@central-data.demon.co.uk>
>
>way to go
>Could any one who has purchased the quick build kit advise me on the
>quality of the build and whether they feel that the extra cost was worth
>while .
>
>
>David Powell central-data@central-data.demon.co.uk
>--
David,
If your aim is to fly as quickly as possible, I think there is no question
at all the Quickbuild is the way to go. The QB I have has chaffing
(shipping?) marks on some parts, mainly the wings, and is a little rough in
some other areas. Right now I am battling how to get the fuselage
bulkheads straight.
Overall, however, the quality is very good and you save a HUGE amount of
time. I am a mediocre builder and I feel the quality is better than I
could do in general but I think anyone wanting a showplane has to build the
regular kit.
I also recommend building the normal empennage kit. It does not take very
long and it gives you a grounding in the techniques you need to learn. The
QB building instructions get very sketchy very quick. Basically you need
to figure things out for yourself. The instructions are more a general
broad goal type of deal.
By the way, the QB has electric flaps. A fact I did not know because it is
nowhere in the literature. Another fact not everyone may know is that most
of the parts the builder supposedly fabricates by making forming blocks and
beating on aluminum have been supplied. I think this is to Van's credit.
They supply the aluminum if you want to learn to beat on it.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
Pacer N8025D
RV-6 QBME N441LP Seat Back Brace
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Acker <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Quick build v Normal kit |
--> RV-List message posted by: Robert Acker
>Could any one who has purchased the quick build kit advise me on the
>quality of the build and whether they feel that the extra cost was worth
>while .
I have a quickbuild, and overall the quality is very good (about an 8.9 or
so). I sure wish I had the extra money now that engine and panel time are
arriving though .
Regarding the Barnard kits, check out www.barnardaircraft.com. Looks
absolutely top rate (anodized parts, all the small parts pre-made, critical
alignments drilled, etc.). The total cost seems to be about $5K.
With the quickbuild, you get a 85% completed airframe but the build is
strictly functional and adequate. You still have to make quite a few small
parts and do critical alignments...but its not that hard. And, its not
quite as pretty underneath the wing skins.
The price difference is small compared to the overall cost of the finished
project. I choose the one that would get me in the air quickest.
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Acker <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Price |
--> RV-List message posted by: Robert Acker
>I'm seeking opinions on a fair price on a used O-360 A4M...The owner wants
$10,900. Is this reasonable? If not, what is the market
>value?
Last time I spoke to Eustace Bowhay he had a fresh rebuilt 0-360A1A for
$13K. So, it seems $11K for a half time solid crank engine is a bit high.
Good luck,
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Acker <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Robert Acker
At 12:45 6/13/97 NZT, you wrote:
>N58RV's instrument panel...The photo caption mentions a VMI VM1000.
See http://beginning.larc.nasa.gov/oshkosh/vm1000.html
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie & Tupper England <england(at)vicksburg.com> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England
>--> RV-List message posted by: Denny Harjehausen
>
>I read of a suggestion of using steel hinges on the lower firewall/cowl and
>by the spinner. Has anyone had troubles out there in RV-land with the
>aluminum higes in those areas or any other?
My rv-4 broke its lower cowl brace (mounted to engine @ lower alternator
bracket) at about 350 hours. Discovered at oil change. The cowl seemed solid
without it so I didn't worry. About 10 hours later both hinges at the
spinner broke, and the long outer hinges lost 2 or 3 'rings' each. I
replaced the spinner hinges and the brace. Holding up fine now.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bumflyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Quick build v Normal kit |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bumflyer(at)aol.com
I have recently completed an RV-6A, and have no experience with Barnard
stuff; however, I share a hangar with quick builder, My opinion is
everything Van sells is a bargain, but the QB 6A is the best bargain of all.
My evaluation of workmanship is that it is excellent and way above 99% of
others I have looked at.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
--> RV-List message posted by: mikel(at)dimensional.com
>
>On the left hand side of the panel is what appears to be
>an "all-in-one" digital engine management unit, with two
>large and six small round indicators, as well as five 'level' displays.
>The photo caption mentions a VMI VM1000. Is that what this is?
Small, cool instrument, all you need to know about your engine, about the
cost of a good used car.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine Price and condition |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mlfred(at)aol.com
<< I'm seeking opinions on a fair price on a used O-360 A4M which I am
considering buying. The engine has 1100 hr since new, and was removed from
a
wind-damaged airplane about 10 years ago and hasn't run since.
Let me play the Devil's advocate here:
Check the crank run-out first. It COULD have been bent. What did the prop
look like? If the fella shows you a (slightly bent) prop, how can you be sure
this was the one installed at the time of damage?
Keep in mind, engines weren't designed to set. What measures were taken to
preserve the insides? I don't think simple turning would do the job. I'd
expect to find rust in more than a few places inside this one.
It comes with
all accessories. Externally, the engine looks fine, internals are a
mystery. With plugs removed, the engine can be turned over using the
flange.
The oil in the engine is clean.
The owner says the engine was stored in an air-conditioned workroom and was
turned over regularly. With plugs removed, you can turn over the engine
using the flange. I plan to pull a jug and look for rust before purchase.
You could use a borescope to check the cyl walls after checking the crank.
This would do one of two things: show rust, or not show rust. I think cyl
assy's are about $1100 ea.
Also, I've asked Lycoming for a list of AD's on the engine and will review
the log books to check for compliance.
Good move.
Otherwise, the logs appear OK. If
everything else checks out, and the price is right, I will pull a jug and
inspect the internals for rust before purchase.
The owner wants $10,900. Is this reasonable?
No. There's too much time on the motor, and it has set for too long. I'd
look over the offerings in Trade-A-Plane. If nothing else, this would be a
yardstick with which to measure this deal. Offer a core price for the thing.
If not, what is the market
value? Also, what other inspections should I conduct before purchase?
FWIW, with the engine sitting this long, I would do a complete tear down
before flying.
I don't think an engine that you need to tear down is worth more than core
price. You'll have at least another $2500 in the thing before you re-assemble
it (rings, bearings, seals, labor, valve work). See where the price is going?
Now, add a cam and some followers......
Responses are appreciated,
Kyle Boatright
RV-6 >>
Of course, I could be all wrong, and the motor could be just fine. Picture
yourself over the Rockies with your significant other as a pax, and this good
deal goes quiet on you after a big bang...
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Camarillo Flyin/airshow |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mike Wills
Listers,
I have been in touch with Cecil Hatfield who will be one of the Chapter 723
members manning the chapter's booth at Camarillo this weekend. I plan to
meet Cecil there, aiming for around 12:30, and would like to meet other
listers who plan to attend. It would be nice to put faces to all these names
I keep seeing. If anyone would like to get together, but this time wont
work, please suggest another time, but make it soon as I am out of email
contact at 4:00 pm.
Hope to see some of you there, and Cecil, I hope this time works for you
also and that you dont mind my broadcasting to the list.
Mike Wills
RV-4(wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ted_boudreaux(at)om.cv.hp.com |
| Subject: | Another interesting uEncoder tidbit |
--> RV-List message posted by: ted_boudreaux(at)om.cv.hp.com
Hi all
Just called RMI yesterday, after seeing "optional compass engine"
mentioned in one of their uEncoder ads. The guy on the phone said
that yes, you can display magnetic heading on the unit, at the expense
of the digital portion of the VSI. The bargraphs will still be
visible, but the numbers will have an HDG caption. He said that you
can toggle between compass and VSI numbers. The only real downside:
the compass engine costs $700-$800. RMI is currently developing one
of their own, with an estimated price of $300. Even MORE free space
in the panel.
I can't wait for the day when I'll actually NEED flight instruments!
Ted Boudreaux RV4 skinning HS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum dust in your eyes |
--> RV-List message posted by: mikel(at)dimensional.com
>At I also noticed that after months of grinding, there was a fairly thick
>layer of black aluminum oxide dust all over the shop. One morning when the
sun >was shining through the shop window and I happened to be grinding a
piece of >aluminum, I noticed just how much dust became airborne and
remained airborne >from this operation.
Well, I have always wondered how much of this stuff I am BREATHING!!
Aluminum is known to not be too great for the ol' human body; what I don't
know is what breathing aluminum dust does to the lungs and body. I'll
research this and see if there are any publications on it. I'm sure OSHA or
someone has done some as it is probably an industrial problem.
When I am doing a lot of buffing I have my respirator on. Looks goofy but
is cutting down on breathing in aluminum/scotchbrite dust.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)ix.netcom.com> |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John B. Abell"
Chris,
The VM-1000 is made by Vision Microsystems, Inc.; 5501 East Road;
Bellingham, Washington 98226. Tel: (360) 398-1833 FAX: (360)
398-1663. I own an EC-100 electronic checklist, fuel quantity system,
air temperature system, and chronometer as well as a VM-1000, all made
by the same company. I made these investments because I like the dual
analog/didgital displays. The analog displays will tell you at a glance
whether everything's "in the green" and the digital displays provide
more accurate information when needed. If you contact Vision
Microsystems, I'm sure they'd be glad to send you some glossies.
I wish I could provide more information, but I haven't installed any of
these components yet.
Jack Abell
RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mike Wills
Lets put things in perspective here. I stopped by Chino airport yesterday
because I saw a hangar door open with a Lancair 4 inside under construction.
Turns out these guys have a small Lancair production line going (if the FAA
is listening, you didnt hear this from me). There were 5 of these in various
states of construction. The most complete one had been test flown, had about
20 hours on it, but no paint and no interior other than panel and a pilots
seat. The guy working on it said they had $320K into it at this point.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>--> RV-List message posted by: Robert Fritz
>
>re. costing a fortune.
>
> Yeah but you wouldn't have it any other way. Besides, couldn't get it any
>other way. Like the man sez. "A ride in an RV is the most expensive free
>ride I ever took.
>
>Cheers
>
>Bob Fritz
>still working on the workshop and dreaming
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob Skinner
>I read of a suggestion of using steel hinges on the lower firewall/cowl and
>by the spinner. Has anyone had troubles out there in RV-land with the
>aluminum higes in those areas or any other?
>Denton Harjehausen
Denny,
I've visited with several RVers who have had trouble with the aluminum
hinge loops breaking, even the extra strength (extruded) hinge specified for
the area behind the spinner. Because of this, I chose to use
flange/nutplates for: the bottom cowl at the outlet area, behind the spinner
and across the top cowl. I stayed with the hinge on the verticle attach
points for the bottom cowl and for the top/bottom horizontal joint. I have
not run across anyone having cracking problems across the rear of the top
cowl. I nutplated this for ease of installation and to eliminate the slight
"slop" that you get using the undersize pin. The nutplate installation in
this area also eliminates getting poked with hinge pins and you don't have
to come up with a way to secure the pins.
After over 350 hours of operation the installation remains trouble free.
I used #6 stainless steel flush screws with countersunk washers for the
bottom, aft, horizontal area and the rear of the top cowl and used #8 truss
head stainless for the the joint behind the spinner. Behind the spinner, I
used a .063 plate on each side, both glued and riveted to the bottom cowl.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)navix.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob Skinner
>The photo caption mentions a VMI VM1000. Is that what this is? Does anyone
>have any imformation/opinions about it? Are there any web resources for the
>product or company?
>Chris
Chris,
This is the Vison Microsystems instrumentation. Van's has this in the
options catalog.
I considered this option for my RV-6 but went with conventional gauges,
instead. Might put it in my second RV-6, though. When I priced systems
out, the VM 1000 was fairly competitive when compared to assembling a
collection of independant gauges of different manufacture. I guess the one
thing that stopped me from using this instrumentation was the concern of
several failure modes. The first failure mode would be the battery. Of
course, I put all electric instuments in my airplane so if I lose my
battery, I'll lose my engine instruments. I do like the idea of electric
gauges as they eliminate having oil and fuel pressure lines in the cockpit.
The other failure path would be a malfunction in the data processing unit
which could cause one, several or all of the gauges to go off-line, I suppose.
I guess the other reason that I decided against the VM 1000 was because it
looked a little "space-age" for a RV. All of the black, round faced
instruments look a little more "airplane" to me. My opinion is that the VM
1000 looks more at home in a Glasair or Lancair.
But, as I said, I'd still consider the system for my next RV-6. It sure
saves panel space and, with the optional annunciator panel, any item out of
limits wets off bells and whistles to catch your attention. So far,
everyone that I've visited with seems happy with the system and have
reported few, if any problems.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)navix.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Gold" <winterland(at)theharddrive.net> |
| Subject: | 16 Years of the RV-Ator |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Andy Gold"
To any interested in obtaining the 16 YEARS OF THE RV-ATOR books
Easy Publishing company has moved and changed it's name. We are now:
Winterland Publications
PO Box 270
Tabernash, CO 80478
Our new phone number is 970-887-2207
The 16 years of the RV-Ator book is still available but now from this new=
address. Of couerse the previous addresses listed on the post cards we =
sent out and other ads are no longer any good.
We also have left 2 copies of the update pages for those who have only =
the original 14 Years of the RV-Ator book. First come first serve. The =
94-95 update pages will not be reprinted.
If you have any questions or would like to order the book for $27.95 plea=
se contact at this address. (update pages sets are $16)
Thank you
Andy Gold
Winterland Publications
RV-6A N-5060, now flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | John Stewart's RV-6A |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob Skinner
Fellow RVers,
John Stewart from Burlington, Colorado flew his newly completed RV-6A
(sliding canopy) to a little fly-in at Grant, NE June 7th. Some of you may
remember that John was one of the guys who helped organize the first
Burlington, CO RV fly-in last fall at which there were 35-40 (?) RVs in
attendance. There will be one again this fall and it promises to be bigger
and better than the first. I had more fun there than OSH or S&F 'cause
they're all RVs (except for one errant T-18 and a Glasair TD). We let the
T-18 mingle with the real airplane builders because he promised he'd build a
RV (but he hasn't started yet so don't know what will happen to him this
fall.) The Glasair guy was parked off by himself:)
Anyway, it's a great event and if you show up, you'll get to see John's
beautiful RV-6A. I imagine that he will be at the Longmont, CO fly-in, June
27-29 th, as well. I think this is an airplane that we'll be seeing in
Sport Aviation, someday. I saw John's airplane at various stages of
construction and it's one of the best examples of craftsmanship that I've
seen. He has a 180 Lycoming with a Hartzell CS prop, a Jeff Rose E.I.,
electric flaps and trim and a Vision Microsystems VM 1000 in the very well
designed and laid out panel.
The only thing I've got against John is that he parked his shiney, new 6A
next to my "old" RV-6 which made his plane look even better and mine, worse.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)navix.net
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy, Oh MY Canopy, Part Deux |
--> RV-List message posted by: JamesCone(at)aol.com
You asked about the second part of my article on canopy installation:
>Hello Jim,
>A question on your statement; " Take a look at the angle of the Plexiglass
>relative to the level line where it will set on the roll-over bar. Raise
>the sliding part of the frame so that it follows this line."
>
>Without the canopy setting on the roll-over bar this appears to be guess
>work... finding that line. Am I missing something?
________________________________________________________________________________
micheal_mcconnel(at)dell.com, budd(at)goodnet.com
| Subject: | 4 seat RV-6 flying |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Hi all:
I talked to a friend in Tulsa the other day, and he had just completed a 4
seat version of the -6. To the time we had talked, the bird had 3.5 flight
hours. He was experiencing some higher than desirable oil temps, which
prompted the call. I had heard rumors about this thing for a while, but I
wanted to wait until the thing flew, before spreading the word. Can anybody
in the Tulsa area confirm any of this?
Here's some info:
IO-540 powered, 80" Hartzell prop. Around 1250# EW.
14" stretch (I think), with the pax facing aft (Tailgunners, eh?) Man, those
standard baggage floor ribs were hard enough to put in!
Sliding/flip-up style canopy. The canopy slides back, and the up at the front
edge. I gotta see this!
Std. fuel cap.
It's flying with std wingspan for now, but this involves a set of extensions.
These will be removed to shorten the span approx 16", 8" per side. The
ailerons have been shortened. I don't know about the flaps.
I know they're using titanium gear legs like the Rocket does.
Flight characteristics seem to be fairly neutral, but it hasn't been flown
with a load as of this report. I'm figuring a 2200# gross wt., but that
wouldn't leave much for baggage. I have no information on any structural
mods. I bet there's more than a few.
The bird is supposed to go to the paint shop soon, and it's planned for
display at OSH. Hmmm, do you think it'll draw a crowd?
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shipping Details |
--> RV-List message posted by: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: DHoerig(at)aol.com
>I understand that main crate for the RV6A quick build kit is abot 4'-0"
>square and 16'-0" long. Can anyone tell me how they unloaded this from tthe
> truck. I was told it weighs about 850#.
>
For what it's worth, and this is applicable to the finish kit for the RV6, I
was able to save about $100.00 in frt. by having it shipped to a business
address in town. This was applicable to stuff coming road express freight.
In other words, not UPS or such but by a type of contract 18 wheeler. I
think the company mine came on was RoadWay Express. The business, an animal
feed store, let me do it no problem, then they helped me put it in the back
of my pick up and two of us slid it off, down one end at a time, and into
the work room.
John Darby RV6 N61764 flying
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PhilipR920(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Quick build v Normal kit |
--> RV-List message posted by: PhilipR920(at)aol.com
My 6A quick build kit was deliversd in October '96. I am currently installing
the canopy frame. I have not started work on the wings.
Although there have some minor problems, I believe the overall workmanship
would be rated between very good and excellent.
I am satisfied with my decision to purchase the quick build.
Phil Rogerson
6AQ 60057, N936PR res.
Fernandina Beach, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PWilsonwcr(at)aol.com |
kitfox(at)lists.csn.org, rv-list(at)matronics.com, Terry.L.Sickkr(at)imco.com
| Subject: | Rocky Mtn EAA Flyin |
--> RV-List message posted by: PWilsonwcr(at)aol.com
The 19th annual EAA Rocky Mountain Regional Fly-in will be held on June 28th
and 29th at Vance Brand airport in Longmont Colorado. Please accept our
invitation to attend. For more details check out our web page.
http://www.win.net/~greeley/rmfimain.htm
Regards,
Paul Wilson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stephen J. Soule"
I got some advice early in this project that I keep trying to
remember. It was "Put a clecoe or a rivet in every hole every time
and never drill a hole until you absolutely have to."
I mumble it like a mantra, but I still forget sometimes.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BigCfly001(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | vans airforce,oh,in,ky |
--> RV-List message posted by: BigCfly001(at)aol.com
We are looking for RV builders,flyers,enthusiasts in the southwestern
ohio,southeastern indiana and northern kentucky area. we are organizing a
VANS AIRFORCE SOUTHWESTERN OHIO WING.we are interested in RV flyins,
gatherings,and the exchange of information between builders.If anyone is
interested in joining our group please e-mail myself, Chris Marion at
BigCfly001(at)aol.com or phone at 513-683-6204, or Jim Barlow at
Jim_D_Barlow(at)ccm.fm.intel.com or phone at 513-583-8346.we are very excited to
be bringing an easier way for fellow RV'ers to gather and to share
information in this area
thank you
chris marion
RV-6 building VS
BigCfly001(at)aol.com
513-683-6204
Jim Barlow
RV-6 building VS
Jim_D_Barlow(at)ccm.fm.intel.com
513-583-8346
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Mumert" <sdm(at)SoftOptions.com> |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Mumert"
Hi Chris
Check out
http://www.chiefaircraft.com/Aircraft/Instruments2/Vision_Mi
cro_Systems.html
for more data on the VM 1000
There are more sites as well check at www.yahoo.com and
search for VM1000
Good Luck
RV6-A 24859
Dave Mumert
SDM(at)softoptions.com
----------
> From: Chris Hinch <dcc.govt.nz!chris(at)matronics.com>
> To: 'smtp:rv-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: RV-List: VMI V1000?
> Date: Friday, June 13, 1997 6:45 AM
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Chris Hinch
>
>
> The April 1997 issue of RVator contains a photo of
N58RV's instrument panel
> (inside cover, upper right corner).
>
> On the left hand side of the panel is what appears to be
(to my *very*
> untrained eye) an "all-in-one" digital engine management
unit, with two
> large and six small round indicators, as well as five
'level' displays.
>
> The photo caption mentions a VMI VM1000. Is that what
this is? Does anyone
> have any imformation/opinions about it? Are there any
web resources for the
> product or company?
>
> Thanks in advance for any and all help.
>
> Chris
> _______________________________________________________
>
> Chris Hinch
> Management Information Systems
> Dunedin City Council, Dunedin, New Zealand
> Internet : chris(at)dcc.govt.nz
> NZ Fighter Pilots Museum:
http://nzfpm.dcc.govt.nz/nzfpm/nzfpm.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Arter <philip.arter(at)mci2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FLAPS UP SWITCH |
--> RV-List message posted by: Phil Arter
aol.com!AB320FLYER(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: AB320FLYER(at)aol.com
>
> >>I have an extra momentary switch on top of my control stick in my
> RV-4, and would like to set this switch up to control 'flaps up'. I think this
> feature would make the aircraft much easier to land with the ability to put up
> the flaps at the moment of touch down. This aircraft and the RV-6 have a
> tendency toward bouncing due to the spring gear. We used to use this technique
> on manual gear Mooneys and it worked great. The jet-liners use it also.
> How about some input on this?
I would be concerned about inadvertantly retracting the flaps on short
final.
--
Phil Arter, RV-8 #80005
philip.arter(at)mci2000.com
http://acd.ucar.edu/~arter/RV8.html
(303)459-0435 home
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FLAPS UP SWITCH |
--> RV-List message posted by: Denny Harjehausen
>--> RV-List message posted by: AB320FLYER(at)aol.com
>
>>>I have an extra momentary switch on top of my control stick in my RV-4, and
>would like to set this switch up to control 'flaps up'.
. The jet-liners use it also. How
>about some input on this?<<
>
>The jet-liners that I know about don't retract the flaps on landing, they
>deploy spoilers automatically to dump the lift at at touchdown, and use drag
>from the flaps to aid in deceleration. At the RV touchdown speeds the flap
>drag obviously isn't as important, but could save some brake wear. I guess I
>would be more concerned with momentarily diverting your attention to flap
>retraction at touchdown, unless you're very comfortable with your airplane.
>
We were absolutely forbidden retract flaps or spoilers until we
cleared the runway, when things slowed down and we had the time divert our
attention. The check guys and the FAA would jump you for it. And of course
if you did anyway cause you thought all that was for the uncool and
something happened like sqwash a runway or taxi light it was " to the
penalty box for thirty days with no pay.... Oh Owww! Made me a believer.
Have A Great Day!
Denny
Denton Harjehausen
retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com
RV-6/ Fuselage
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Flaherty <yogieb(at)pipeline.com> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mike Flaherty
At 12:45 PM 6/13/97 NZT, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Chris Hinch
>
>
>The April 1997 issue of RVator contains a photo of N58RV's instrument panel
>(inside cover, upper right corner).
>
>On the left hand side of the panel is what appears to be (to my *very*
>untrained eye) an "all-in-one" digital engine management unit, with two
>large and six small round indicators, as well as five 'level' displays.
>
>The photo caption mentions a VMI VM1000. Is that what this is? Does anyone
>have any imformation/opinions about it? Are there any web resources for the
>product or company?
>
>Thanks in advance for any and all help.
>
>Chris
>_______________________________________________________
>
>Chris Hinch
>Management Information Systems
>Dunedin City Council, Dunedin, New Zealand
>Internet : chris(at)dcc.govt.nz
>NZ Fighter Pilots Museum: http://nzfpm.dcc.govt.nz/nzfpm/nzfpm.htm
Chris,
There aren't any web sites that I have found for Vision.
Their address is:
Vision Micro Systems Inc.
4071 Hannegan Rd., Suite T
Bellingham, WA 98226
Phone (360) 714-8203
Fax (360) 714-8253
Mike>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-4 front seat bottom structure |
| From: | jodyedwards(at)juno.com (Jody J EDWARDS) |
--> RV-List message posted by: jodyedwards(at)juno.com (Jody J EDWARDS)
I'm considering having a local interior shop {friend} do my seat cushions
for my RV-4 but I'm kind of lost when it comes to ideas and dimensions.
Any help? Thanks in
advance Jody
Edwards RV-4 on
gear
________________________________________________________________________________
--> RV-List message posted by: AlexMSl(at)aol.com
Regarding the short hinge sections in the cowl by the spinner, they will
break. I substituted a piece of .063 plate on the top cowl section with
anchor nuts for three #8 screws, counter sunk. I drill through the bottom
mating cowl section for the screws and machine counter sink for the screws.
Threre is a lot of stress in this area and the screws will hold. Aluminum
hinge sections will not.
Alex Sloan RV-6 N626BA Flying.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)A.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RMI microEncoder & Voltage Transients |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Barnhart
I received the replacement Version 314 monitor ROM today along with the
EGT/CHT switch.
Did you have a chance to look at the 314 ROM I sent you and if so, can you
tell me what was the problem?
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine Price |
--> RV-List message posted by: Craig Hiers <CRAIG-RV-4.@worldnet.att.net>
Robert Acker wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Robert Acker
>
> >I'm seeking opinions on a fair price on a used O-360 A4M...The owner wants
> $10,900. Is this reasonable? If not, what is the market
> >value?
>
> Last time I spoke to Eustace Bowhay he had a fresh rebuilt 0-360A1A for
> $13K. So, it seems $11K for a half time solid crank engine is a bit high.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q
I purchased an 0320 from Eustace and got a great deal. however, here
in Florida I looked for an 0360 for three years, and the average run
out 6000 hour 0360 was about 6000$. I could not bring myself to
pay this much for a motor and still have to rebuild it.
This is another plus for the RV list, the uesd engine core market
in Canada is a hell of a lot better than what it is in Florida.
Lucky for me I found Eustace Bowhay. My contribution to the RV list
will be extra big next year.
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
Aircraft Spruce shipped the wrong parts again.....aaarrrgggg.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Bronson <70773.2700(at)CompuServe.COM> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Tim Bronson <70773.2700(at)CompuServe.COM>
I vote no. I doubt that the average pilot could hit the switch consistently at
the precise moment of touchdown. Hit it too early and you "arrive" sooner and
more firmly than intended. Too late and you increase your descent rate on the
down side of the bounce, considering the effect of gravity and loss of lift at
the same time. I think you would get better results by simply ensuring that you
hold the airplane off the runway until you reach stall speed, as this will eliminate
lift-induced part of the bounce. A stalled airplane dropped from a height of a
few
inches probably won't bounce excessively.
Do the RV flaps move quickly enough to be a factor at the instant of bounce? I
have
zero RV hours (so far), but haven't flown any single engine airplanes that had
flaps
that moved faster that your average sloth.
I am also leery of altering my grip on the stick at the moment of touchdown in
order
to reach a switch. If I were to pursue such an installation, I would be inclined
to
locate the switch on my throttle. I've flown a few turboprops that had "gates"
on the
power levers that were used to engage reverse. It's an easy set-up to handle even
with a handful of airplane on a gusty day.
The airline systems are almost all (these days) automated and react to wheel spin-up
or strut compression in order to raise spoilers. The flaps don't move.
Tim Bronson / Planning in Pittsburgh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve McClure <shekinahair(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Quick build v Normal kit |
--> RV-List message posted by: Steve McClure
>My 6A quick build kit was deliversd in October '96. I am currently installing
>the canopy frame. I have not started work on the wings.
>
>Hi Phil,
I'm new on the list and was curious about the quick build. On average, how
many hours a day do you work on it? How much more time until it will be
completed? Have you worked on it everyday? My wife and I have read that it
takes 1000 hours. Is this a realistic estimate?
__________________________________________________________________________
Shekinah_Air
Free Air Transport for
Seriously Ill Children
shekinahair(at)mindspring.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~sevend/shekinah_air/
Steve McClure 937.845.1325
__________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KennyCobb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Price |
--> RV-List message posted by: KennyCobb(at)aol.com
<< The owner wants $10,900. Is this reasonable? >>
This sounds too high for a engine that has not run for 10 years. I think
you
can do better if you shop around.
Ken Crabtree
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net> |
| Subject: | Scappoose Fly-In |
--> RV-List message posted by: "mcomeaux"
I plan attending the Scappoose Fly-In June 21.
Is there anyone with a RV6A that I could get
a Demo ride with possibly? Would really
appreciate it. I'm building the emmpenage
for one right now.
Mike Comeaux mcomeaux(at)cmc.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | rivet spacing tool |
--> RV-List message posted by: lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott)
I bought one of those rivet spacing tools, you know, the one that looks
like one of those little fences you put at the top of the stairs to keep
your kid from rolling down them. It is good for spacing, but not for
straight lines. Does anyone else have this problem, or is mine
defective? The marks can be off as much as the thickness of a rivet head
from one end of the spacer to the other.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Elon <elon.o(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Price |
--> RV-List message posted by: Elon
Kyle wrote:
(much snipped) I'm seeking opinions on a fair price on a used O-360 A4M which I
am
> considering buying. The engine has 1100 hr since new, and was removed from a
> wind-damaged airplane about 10 years ago and hasn't run since.
> The owner wants $10,900. Is this reasonable? If not, what is the market value?
Kyle Boatright
--------------------------------
Kyle:
Seams like there has been some very good advice so far. Mark's opinion that it
is not much
better than a core is proably close to the truth. So what is its fair value?
I have just gotten quotes from both Penn Yan and Van Bortel for this very same
motor for another
project so you be the judge.
Factory NEW $20,766
Factory REMAN $15,761
Factory Overhaul $10,048
Core charge $ 6,000
Van Bortel publishes all curent prices on Lycomings & Continentals on their web
page
http://www.vanbortel.com/airpower/lyc.html. So check it out if you don't believe the numbers. Air
Power is the name of Van Bortel's engine company, and they sell all engines at
$300 over factory
invoice.
Your engine is 55% from TBO. A sometimes accepted standard when buying aircraft
is to subtract
the remaining life of the engine from a new engine cost to arrive at market value.
Using this
convention you would pay $9,344 for a currently flying engine with that many hours.
($20,766 X
45% = $9.3k). This "friend" is already asking too much. Further, this is not a
flying engine and
that also lowers the price.
The problem is a bore-scope will not revel bearing problems. After sitting for
so long (and
being pickled in who knows what kind of oil) what has happened to all of the bearings?
In the
best of conditions I have seen bearings with their entire clad upper surface etched
away from
chemicals in the oil over long term storage. If it was mine I would automaticly
do a complete
tear-down for bearing replacement. So now you have a major tear-down and parts
cost. Also,
Factory new comes with new mags and some other accessories. You didn't mention
what is on your
engine or the shape they are in.
I think his initial offer is to high to even try to bargin down.
Elon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Quick build v Normal kit |
--> RV-List message posted by: "les williams"
David,
I have completed a normal kit and am well along in completing the airframe of
a quickbuild kit. I would have to say that if you're looking for show plane
quality, and want to put forth the effort, you would do better going with a
normal kit. To speed it up, the Barnard Acft components would be a good
investment from what I've seen and heard. There are some other components
that you can buy pre-assembled, such as the fuel tanks, but the quality of one
of those assemblers has had some negative comments on the list.
I feel that the quickbuild is a good way to go if you're looking to complete
an average quality plane in as short a time as possible for a reasonable cost.
The construction videos that come with the QB kit will help, but I would
advise anyone without any previous building experience to become closely
acquainted with another local builder if at all possible and try to get some
hands on experience. I would also suggest that after you have researched the
plans, manual, and other resource materials, and still have questions, to
avail yourself of Van's technical support, as well as advice from the list.
Best wishes on whatever you decide!
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/N24LW (res)/finish kit/N299LJ sold 10/95
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of central-data
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 1997 2:59 PM
Subject: RV-List: Quick build v Normal kit
--> RV-List message posted by: central-data
<central-data@central-data.demon.co.uk>
I have now finished my work shop and ready to place an order for a RV6A
I am based in England and have had little contact with other builders
My main aim is to complete the plane in as shorter time as possible and
get down to some flying
Having compared the prices including import taxes etc there seems to be
a difference of approx $8000 between the cost of the Quick build and the
standard kit. I have also received information on Barnard Aircraft
components fast build wing etc. To me the quick build seems to be the
way to go
Could any one who has purchased the quick build kit advise me on the
quality of the build and whether they feel that the extra cost was worth
while .
Thanking you
David Powell central-data@central-data.demon.co.uk
--
central-data
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bennett(at)healey.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: more nutplates |
--> RV-List message posted by: bennett(at)healey.com.au
Today I tried
> Doug Stenger's method and it seems to go faster and more accurately. 1.
> Drill screw hole full size (11/64") 2. dimple 3. attach nutplate with screw
> 4. back drill retaining rivet holes. No clecoes needed, when you drive
> the screw tight it will stay put for drilling. The secret is to tap a
> nutplate so the screw runs up easily, and can simply be held with your
> fingers while running it up.
The disadvantage of this method is that after 3 or 4 sets of holes
you have wallowed out the #40 holes on your tapped platenut so that when you
put the rivets in they don't fit well.
The fix is to cut a #8 screw short so it engages only on the first
few threads, then use a new platenut each time.
Having tried all that however, I find it easier to use the #30 cleco method
and enlarge the screw hole to #15 immediately before rivetting the
platenuts.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 building sliding canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PhilipR920(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Quick build v Normal kit |
--> RV-List message posted by: PhilipR920(at)aol.com
Steve,
I haven't added up my time, but estimate that I spent an average of about 40
hours a week on the project.
I originally thought that I would finish by the first of the year. Now I'm
not very optimistic about that date. I've added several things not in the
plans and each adds more time than you would think.
The estimate of 1000 hours to complete the quick build sounds low to me. I'm
a slow worker and this is my first experience building a plane.Someone with
more experience may be able to proceed much quicker.
Phil Rogerson
6AQ 60057
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen
I have an RV-3 with no wing tanks.
As part of doing the CN-2 to strengthen wing spars, I'll be opening up
the rear bottom skins. This would give me some access to the inside of
the wing foward of the spar (through the spar ligthening holes before
the are closed up).
I thought of a couple of possibilities:
1) Fuel bladders. Does anybody know of fuel bladders which would fit
between ribs forward of spar in an RV-3 wing?
2) Use glass cloth to seal all unwanted openings, i.e. strips along
ribs/skin, top skin down spar to bottom skin. I seem to recall some
recent post about epoxying glass to aluminum not holding up? Potentially
I could glass the entire areas. This appears to be a relatively easy way
of adding wing tanks to the existing wing. Obviously they wouldn't be
removable. Would the weight of the glass/epoxy be prohibitive?
Comments anyone?
Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Avionics cooling |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a@denmark-c.it.earthlink.net>
I'm looking for ideas on keeping the radios cool. I'm not willing to
use forced air from my NACA vents because if it's raining I'd be
concerned about blowing water into the radios. The other options I
can see are a venturi system (as in the Grumman Lynx) or a
cooling fan.
The suction system involves putting a small rear facing scoop (1"
diameter, extending 1/2" from skin) on the outside of the plane. The
scoop produces a vacuum. A hose from the scoop to the avionics
stack draws hot air from the stack. Grumman used this on the Lynx.
A fan could be used as well. "Avionics" fans seem to run $150 and
up. Bob Nuckolls mentioned within the last month that it's not too
hard to filter a more pedestrian fan if it turns out to make noise.
Bob, what components would you recommend?
What have other folks done to keep those expensive radios cool(er)?
Thanks,
Tim Lewis
Panel layout, miscellaneous bits.
---------------------
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or
timrv6a(at)iname.com
-----------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
--> RV-List message posted by: MAlexan533(at)aol.com
I just happened to stumble onto the Airnav web page while looking up info on
the Scappoose, Oregon fly-in next weekend. It is fantastic! It is a flight
planner unlike any I've seen, and it is free. http://www.airnav.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Quick build v Normal kit |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a@denmark-c.it.earthlink.net>
> >Hi Phil,
> I'm new on the list and was curious about the quick build. On average, how
> many hours a day do you work on it? How much more time until it will be
> completed? Have you worked on it everyday? My wife and I have read that it
> takes 1000 hours. Is this a realistic estimate?
I started my QB in August 96. At over 800 hours I've completed the
fuselage, wings, and canopy. Left to go are the engine installation,
panel, paint, and a million little details.
No way am I going to be done in 1000 hrs. More like 1200 - 1500 for
me. But I'm slow.
Tim
---------------------
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or
timrv6a(at)iname.com
-----------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Paint Application Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Gesele
Listers,
I'm well into painting my RV-6A and have run into an area of concern. The
primer and paint are make by SIKKENS. The primer is an epoxy primer. The
wings are currently primed and I'm in to process of sanding the primer with
400 grit. Around several rivet, the primer is being completely sanded off
and bare metal is being exposed. This appears to be due to a rivet that is
a little higher than the surrounding metal or a dimple that wasn't perfect.
The problem doesn't appear that serious. A typical area where the metal is
showing is roughly the area of 1/4 of a rivet head, not much. The total
exposed area for a wing panel, both sides, is probably less than one square
inch.
Is this anything to worry about? As I see, I have three options.
1. Re-prime the entire wing.
2. Use an airbrush to add the primer back to those exposed areas, then
re-sand the area.
3. Don't worry about it, this is normal, just paint the wings and get on
with the project.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Scott Gesele N506RV (painting)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve McClure <shekinahair(at)mindspring.com> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Steve McClure
Hi everyone,
We are new to the list and have a lot of questions. I'll keep this to one.
I have been trying for 4 years to find the time to build an RV. We are
placing our order for an RV-8 in August. My question is; what would be a
realistic time estimate on building the plane with 2 fulltime people.
I've read and reread all the liturature from Van's info and we figure that
at 2000 hours build time devided by 2 of us putting in 80 hours a week the
plane should be complete after 6 months. Is this a realistic assumption?
Steve and Carey McClure
Starting on RV-8 August, 97
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine Price |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV6AIR(at)aol.com
It's hard to beat Van's new O-360-A1A but you do end up
with a lot of excess time . When I was looking at used engines
I found that Lycoming would do a pre-purchase inspection
including test cell run at a very nominal cost.
Bob Lovering
RV-6, N7LA First flight this late summer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <James.E.Clark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Quick build v Normal kit |
--> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark"
Worth every penny, pence, dollar, pound.
Although it will still take me a while (so little time to build), I have
the "luxury" of working in a hangar with a friend who is building the
"normal" way and we BOTH appreciate how much time the QB saves (especially
for me as a first timer).
If you have the extra coins, and you wish to shorten the build time, I
highly recommend the QB. Now somew people simple enjoy the total build
process no matter how long it takes. For me the "prime objective" is to get
a safe airplane that I did, in the air in a reasonable amount of time.
Re quality:
So far, I think I have found only one real error. The work otherwise FAR
EXCEEDS anything I can do.
James
RV6AQ .... closing wings one of these days, months ...
----------
> From: central-data <central-data.demon.co.uk!central-data(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Quick build v Normal kit
> Date: Thursday, June 12, 1997 5:59 PM
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: central-data
<central-data@central-data.demon.co.uk>
>
> I have now finished my work shop and ready to place an order for a RV6A
> I am based in England and have had little contact with other builders
> My main aim is to complete the plane in as shorter time as possible and
> get down to some flying
>
> Having compared the prices including import taxes etc there seems to be
> a difference of approx $8000 between the cost of the Quick build and the
> standard kit. I have also received information on Barnard Aircraft
> components fast build wing etc. To me the quick build seems to be the
> way to go
> Could any one who has purchased the quick build kit advise me on the
> quality of the build and whether they feel that the extra cost was worth
> while .
>
> Thanking you
>
> David Powell central-data@central-data.demon.co.uk
> --
> central-data
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Paint Application Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "les williams"
Scott, most of the epoxy primers that I've seen allow up to a week to recoat
without sanding. With this in mind, I would wait to touch up any bare spots
until you can paint the top coat within the allowed time. I think you would
have a hard time sanding without going through somewhere, at least I did.
Good luck.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/N24LW (res)
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Scott Gesele
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 1997 9:33 AM
Subject: RV-List: Paint Application Question
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Gesele
Listers,
I'm well into painting my RV-6A and have run into an area of concern. The
primer and paint are make by SIKKENS. The primer is an epoxy primer. The
wings are currently primed and I'm in to process of sanding the primer with
400 grit. Around several rivet, the primer is being completely sanded off
and bare metal is being exposed. This appears to be due to a rivet that is
a little higher than the surrounding metal or a dimple that wasn't perfect.
The problem doesn't appear that serious. A typical area where the metal is
showing is roughly the area of 1/4 of a rivet head, not much. The total
exposed area for a wing panel, both sides, is probably less than one square
inch.
Is this anything to worry about? As I see, I have three options.
1. Re-prime the entire wing.
2. Use an airbrush to add the primer back to those exposed areas, then
re-sand the area.
3. Don't worry about it, this is normal, just paint the wings and get on
with the project.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Scott Gesele N506RV (painting)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)msn.com> |
--> RV-List message posted by: "les williams"
Peter, I believe the screw hole size for a #8 screw is #19, not #15.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/N24LW (res)/RV-6A N299LJ sold 10/95
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of
healey.com.au!bennett(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 1997 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: more nutplates
--> RV-List message posted by: bennett(at)healey.com.au
Today I tried
> Doug Stenger's method and it seems to go faster and more accurately. 1.
> Drill screw hole full size (11/64") 2. dimple 3. attach nutplate with screw
> 4. back drill retaining rivet holes. No clecoes needed, when you drive
> the screw tight it will stay put for drilling. The secret is to tap a
> nutplate so the screw runs up easily, and can simply be held with your
> fingers while running it up.
The disadvantage of this method is that after 3 or 4 sets of holes
you have wallowed out the #40 holes on your tapped platenut so that when you
put the rivets in they don't fit well.
The fix is to cut a #8 screw short so it engages only on the first
few threads, then use a new platenut each time.
Having tried all that however, I find it easier to use the #30 cleco method
and enlarge the screw hole to #15 immediately before rivetting the
platenuts.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 building sliding canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics cooling |
--> RV-List message posted by: Denny Harjehausen
>What have other folks done to keep those expensive radios cool(er)?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Tim Lewis
>Panel layout, miscellaneous bits.
>---------------------
Jim Cone showed the Radio Shack fans for the top of the glare shield that
fits nice in the slider, in his Newsletter. For a tip up I found little
blowers in the same Radio Shack section as Jim's fans. Both seem to do three
jobs at on time. Cool the instrument panel, clear the windshield of moisture
and warm up the top of the cockpit at altitude. And they are about $14.00.
Have A Great Day!
Denny
Denton Harjehausen
retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com
RV-6/ Fuselage
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Darrell L. Anderson" <d.l.anderson(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | rivet spacing tool |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Darrell L. Anderson"
--> RV-List message posted by: lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott)
I bought one of those rivet spacing tools, you know, the one that looks
like one of those little fences you put at the top of the stairs to keep
your kid from rolling down them. It is good for spacing, but not for
straight lines. Does anyone else have this problem, or is mine
defective? The marks can be off as much as the thickness of a rivet head
from one end of the spacer to the other.
Draw a straight line first with an ultra-fine point Sharpie
marker, then use the spacing tool to mark the rivet positions
along that straight line.
D. Anderson
RV-4, wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca (joehine) |
| Subject: | Re: more nutplates |
--> RV-List message posted by: joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca (joehine)
>--> RV-List message posted by: bennett(at)healey.com.au
>
>Today I tried
>> Doug Stenger's method and it seems to go faster and more accurately. 1.
bunch clipped
>The fix is to cut a #8 screw short so it engages only on the first
>few threads, then use a new platenut each time.
>
Guys, the easiest method I found was to rummage in the flea market at Osh
or S&F and buy a plate nut jig. I found one for 5 bucks and it worked like
a charm for my whole kit. They come in a multitude of sizes so you have to
be sure you get the correct one for our size plate nuts.
Joe
Joe
C-FYTQ RV4 - painting all finished, clearing up details, to the airport
within two weeks!!!
joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca 13 James St.
506-452-1072 Home Douglas, NB
506-452-3495 Work Canada, E3A 7Z2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sharlene Shipley or Bruce Knoll <snsbfk(at)mail.sage.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rivet spacing tool |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sharlene Shipley or Bruce Knoll
>--> RV-List message posted by: lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott)
>
>I bought one of those rivet spacing tools, you know, the one that looks
>like one of those little fences you put at the top of the stairs to keep
>your kid from rolling down them. It is good for spacing, but not for
>straight lines. Does anyone else have this problem, or is mine
>defective? The marks can be off as much as the thickness of a rivet head
>from one end of the spacer to the other.
>
>Hi Mike,
Last I knew it was a spacer, not an alinger. Use a flesing straight edge to
get a straignt row of rivits and the spacer to get the proper dist. between.
Good Luck
Bruce
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | THeard5782(at)aol.com |
--> RV-List message posted by: THeard5782(at)aol.com
My wife three sons (8,6,4) are considering a six month visit to New Zealand.
I'm interested in building a RV with someone in the Christchurch area and
would
love to hear any comments or recommendations about general aviation in NZ.
I'm a 45yo former U.S. Navy submariner turned cardiologist planning to take
a break from clinical medicine for a while.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary <gwhite(at)vaxxine.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 4 seat RV-6 flying |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gary
aol.com!Mlfred(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mlfred(at)aol.com
>
> Hi all:
>
>OUHUIHOIJPIPIOPOI>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net (Chris Brooks) |
--> RV-List message posted by: BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net (Chris Brooks)
Michael,
I draw a straight rivet line and just use the fan spacer to locate
the rivet spacing along the line. None of the fan spacers I have seen
will lay out a straight line when they are extended.
Chris Brooks
BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net
Fuselage in jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
--> RV-List message posted by: JamesCone(at)aol.com
There is an ad for an Active Noise Reduction headset made by Lightspeed. I
claims full stereo and up to 42db of noise reduction. Has anyone on the list
had any experience with this company? How good is the stereo playback when
the ANR is active? Some ANR headsets cut all sound below the ANR cutoff and
the music sounds very poor. The price is attractive but I have never heard
of the company. Thanks in advance for any opinions.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rivet spacing tool |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a@norway-c.it.earthlink.net>
> I bought one of those rivet spacing tools, you know, the one that
looks
> like one of those little fences you put at the top of the stairs to keep
> your kid from rolling down them. It is good for spacing, but not for
> straight lines. Does anyone else have this problem, or is mine
> defective? The marks can be off as much as the thickness of a rivet head
> from one end of the spacer to the other.
The instructions that came with mine specifically warned that it was
good only for finding equal spacing, not for laying out a straight
line. IMO your rivet fan is OK as is.
tim
---------------------
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or
timrv6a(at)iname.com
-----------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Heat soaked engine problems solved. |
--> RV-List message posted by: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Well, the verdict is in and my fix for the problems that I was having after
my plane sat and heat soaked the engine, fuel pump, fuel lines, and carb,
worked. I confirmed this today after flying Young Eagles all day. It was
very warm and my plane sat between flights long enough to get thoroughly heat
soaked. I did not have any problems except when I did not purge the fuel
lines of the hot fuel. What finally solved my vapor lock problem which
caused very rough engine running after the plane would sit after flying, was
to install a 1/4 inch return line from the Ellison TB to one of the unused
ports on my fuel selector which created a runaround when selected to that
position, and allowed me to pump fuel around the lines using the electric
pump and get cool fuel to the engine compartment. It takes about 10-15
seconds to completely purge my fuel lines of the hot fuel and then my engine
starts right up and runs smoothly. This is something that it would not do
before the return line was installed, dispite all other attempts to fix the
problem, which included a blast tube to the gascolator, a blast tube to the
engine fuel pump, and insulating all of the lines with firesleeve and
shielding the exhaust pipes where they were near the fuel system components.
I moved the HPG-1 fuel filter to the cockpit which holds about 8 oz. of fuel
and provides a supply of cool fuel for the runaround. No fuel is returned to
the tanks, it is just circulated to clear the hot fuel out of the lines to
the engine. The cockpit lines and the associated valves, filter, fuel flow
sensor, and electric pump provide a good heat sink to cool the fuel that is
circulated out of the fuel lines in the engine compartment. I had a great
time flying Young Eagles in my RV and was not embarrased by a rough running
engine on taxi out.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | NSGE82A(at)prodigy.com (MR NORMAN W RAINEY) |
| Subject: | Paint Application Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: NSGE82A(at)prodigy.com (MR NORMAN W RAINEY)
Before painting my 6A in 1992 I talked to the guy that taught auto
painting at the Portland Community College, Aloha campus, and he
recommended the SIKKENS paint which I used. He said that the primer
would add extra protection, but that quite frankly with a clean
aluminum project like the RV, primer could easily be excluded in
favor of less weight and just not that important for a bird that will
probably be hangared anyway. Therefore, I chose not to primer and I
must tell you that that paint has stood the test of 550+ hrs. and
significant heavy rain ( those of us in OR. & WA. would never fly if
we waited for the sunshine) with little lost paint. Probably would
not have any missing if my total preparation had been more detailed.
I also run hard without reducing power many times as I use my RV to
meet scheduled business trips. SIKKENS is GREAT paint with or
without primer and I wouldn't worry as long as you've got everything
clean.
Happy painting.
Norm Rainey
N8992R 9/92
working on fuse #2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: How much Time? |
z>
--> RV-List message posted by: Frank van der Hulst
>--> RV-List message posted by: Steve McClure
>My question is; what would be a
>realistic time estimate on building the plane with 2 fulltime people.
>
>I've read and reread all the liturature from Van's info and we figure that
>at 2000 hours build time devided by 2 of us putting in 80 hours a week the
>plane should be complete after 6 months. Is this a realistic assumption?
80 hours a week is a *lot*. I'm pressing hard to do 50-60 hours per month.
I guess if I wasn't working a fulltime job, and prepared to give up my
entire social life, I could manage 80 hours per week. Your schedule could
get seriously screwed if you screw up a part and need to order a replacement.
In some cases, having two guys will more than double your build rate. In
others, it won't increase it much.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bstobbe(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | RE: How much Time? (chatter) |
--> RV-List message posted by: bstobbe(at)juno.com
writes:
We are placing our order for an RV-8 in August. My question is; what
would be
>a realistic time estimate on building the plane with 2 fulltime people.
>
Before I started my -6 I had the same concerns; just how long is this
thing going to take me to build? I knew it was the perfect airplane for
my needs - an excellent compromise between a good cross country flier and
a sport plane - and I wanted one now (the QB was not yet offered). Then
someone changed my whole outlook with the statement; "Hey, five or ten
years are going to go by anyway. If you start the thing now, at least
you'll have an airplane at some point!" This made sense to me at the
time, and it helps me keep my sanity when I look at how much has yet to
be done after 4 years of on-and-off work (I have learned that there is
much, much more to an airplane than meets the eye).
Anyway, my point is that IMO I think it is a mistake to try to assign a
schedule to a project of this magnitude which has so many variables...
work habits, shop experience, shop equipment, organization,
perserverence, and last but not least - how you intend to equip your
airplane.
Bottom line is: just do it (to coin the phrase), I have yet to hear of
anyone who has regretted it.
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6; fuselage
N508RV (res - see how optimistic I am!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: How much Time? |
--> RV-List message posted by: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
> I've read and reread all the liturature from Van's info and we figure that
> at 2000 hours build time devided by 2 of us putting in 80 hours a week the
> plane should be complete after 6 months. Is this a realistic assumption?
Someone else already commented. It also depends upon your comfort level
with the skillsets required. Remember -- now you both need to put in that
100 hours to develop the skills and get used to reading Van's plans and
directions. And there will still be that head scratching, "how do we do
this?" time, but both of you will be standing around.
Work efficiently, and I bet you're close at 6 months, but don't plan any
big trips until it's actually flying.
-J
--
Joe Larson jpl(at)showpg.mn.org 612-551-1072
14190 47th Ave N. http://www.wavefront.com/~showpg
Plymouth, Mn 55446 Future RV-6A pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sburch(at)norfolk.infi.net (stan burchett) |
| Subject: | WANTED: Pneumatic Squeezer |
--> RV-List message posted by: sburch(at)norfolk.infi.net (stan burchett)
Hand squeezer relief needed! If your pneumatic needs a good home contact
Stan at sburch(at)norfolk.infi.net or call 757-867-7244.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rivet spacing tool |
--> RV-List message posted by: Brian & Sharon Eckstein <eckstein@net-link.net>
One can save the cost of a rivet spacer by punching little holes in an
elastic strip. Stretch it to fit.
Brian Eckstein
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | S.Fla. Van's Airforce Chapter |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 11:31:13 -0400
From: Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com>
Subject: S.Fla. Van's Airforce Chapter
Hi,
After speaking to Jody Edwards, Steve Dixon and Ray (forgot his last
name) I'd like to find out who else would want to start a Van's Air
Force chapter in the South East Florida area. Anyone interested please
contact myself or Jody.
Charlie Kuss 3000 S. Ocean Blvd. #103 Boca Raton, Fl. 33432
charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com or charliekuss(at)juno.com
(561)338-9373
waiting on RV-8 tail kit
Jody Edwards
N.E. 3rd Ave. Ft. Lauderdale, Fl.
JodyEdwards(at)juno.com or RVfiend(at)aol.com
(954)776-6139
RV-4 on the gear
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: How much Time? |
--> RV-List message posted by: mikel(at)dimensional.com
>2000 hours build time devided by 2 of us putting in 80 hours a week the
>>plane should be complete after 6 months. Is this a realistic assumption?
>
>80 hours a week is a *lot*.
>I guess if I wasn't working a fulltime job, and prepared to give up my
>entire social life, I could manage 80 hours per week. Your schedule could
>get seriously screwed if you screw up a part and need to order a replacement.
>
>In some cases, having two guys will more than double your build rate. In
>others, it won't increase it much.
>
Yikes!! Nicely put, Frank. 80 hours a week is like two full-time jobs.
Easy to get BURNED OUT cramming that much time into building. Good-by wife,
good-by social life, good-by flying......(stay current).
There are some days you go out to the garage and just have no interest in
doing ANYTHING on the airplane. And on those days you probably shouldn't as
you will probably screw something up.
Before I started building, a friend of mine (who is now flying his -4) was
out at the airport helping someone polish their airplane and I thought "How
can he be out here doing that?? He should be home building." I think it is
IMPORTANT not to just build, not to set an ultimate time limit, as you will
just get frustrated as it never goes along as fast as you want it to. Go
see a movie every once in a while.
Figure how much time you think it will take, double that and it will
probably take longer than that. I think one of the reasons people stop
building is the project is taking longer than expected. Just expect it will
be done SOMETIME. The important thing is to KEEP BUILDING knowing you will
someday FLY.
Just some father's day thoughts..............
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rivet spacing tool |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@[206.242.164.4]>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott)
>
> I bought one of those rivet spacing tools, you know, the one that looks
> like one of those little fences you put at the top of the stairs to keep
> your kid from rolling down them. It is good for spacing, but not for
> straight lines. Does anyone else have this problem, or is mine
That's the way they work. Draw a straight line first then use the
rivet spacing tool for spacing only.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
Pacer N8025D
RV-6QME N441LP Seatback Brace
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harold Sutphin <hsutphin(at)magicnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Application Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Harold Sutphin
Scott,
Follow the manufacturer's recommendations for the application of the
primer and subsequent coatings. There is a window of time where you
usually can recoat and touch up without having to sand. If you are past
that, I am sure that any area of primer can be touched up after roughing
up the surface with 400 grit. That's why we call it primer. I wouldn't
recoat the entire wing unless the mfr. recommends it. Go for the
touchup. If you still need advice call the manufacturer or talk to the
local paint supply shop that handles this paint on a regular basis.
Harold
RV-6A
Scott Gesele wrote:
. Around several rivet, the primer is being completely sanded off
> and bare metal is being exposed. This appears to be due to a rivet that is
>
> 2. Use an airbrush to add the primer back to those exposed areas, then
> re-sand the area.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
--> RV-List message posted by: lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott)
I am about to order a new canopy to replace the cracked one I have now.
I figured this would be a good chance to practice drilling and cutting
on the old one. It is 90 degrees and humid in my shop. I drilled all
over the canopy, close to the edges, in the center, at angles, wallowed
the drill around in the holes, cut chunks with a jigsaw, sat on it while
I drilled, and rolled it around the concrete a little. It never showd
any signs of cracking. It did flake off a little around the edge of the
holes when i pushed the bit through. Of course, I'll be much more
careful with a new one. Am i worrying too much about cracking a new
one, or are some guys just too careless? I'd be sick if I bust the new
one.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV6A - Trimming FWD Top Skin F-674 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Caldwell" <rlcaldwell@utah-inter.net>
I have drilled and clecoed my top turtle-deck skins (F-675/674). Before
removing them for dimpling and riveting, should I try to figure out where
to trim/cut the forward portion of the F-674 skin. I will be using the
sliding canopy and could temporally fit the roll cage on the longerons and
use to map out where the top skin will go. Is this a good idea. Or should
I not worry about trimming this top skin until I'm ready to install the
sliding canopy? When is the best time to rivet this top skin? Before
Canopy installation or after? Thanks for your suggestions.
Ron Caldwell
rlcaldwel@inter-utah.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001) |
--> RV-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001)
>--------------
>--> RV-List message posted by: lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott)
>
>I am about to order a new canopy to replace the cracked one I have now.
>I figured this would be a good chance to practice drilling and cutting
>on the old one. It is 90 degrees and humid in my shop. I drilled all
>over the canopy, close to the edges, in the center, at angles, wallowed
>the drill around in the holes, cut chunks with a jigsaw, sat on it while
>I drilled, and rolled it around the concrete a little. It never showd
>any signs of cracking. It did flake off a little around the edge of the
>holes when i pushed the bit through. Of course, I'll be much more
>careful with a new one. Am i worrying too much about cracking a new
>one, or are some guys just too careless? I'd be sick if I bust the new
>one.
>--------------
Hello Michael,
Well, I just finished up my second canopy attempt on an RV-4. The first
canopy ended up with 3 'nice' big cracks. The second one turned out much nicer
although it has one small crack (ack!). What I found there are three things
that are important when drilling to avoid cracking:
1) Use a dull drill bit. A nice new sharp bit will tend to drill
too fast and will want to 'snag' on the plexi and often cause a
crack.
2) Use a *fast* drill motor. I would seem that slow would be better
but the reality is that a fast turning motor tends to 'melt' the plexi
a little bit as the drill is going it. This helps reduce the risk of
snagging and cracking. I found that my 1200rpm drill was too slow.
I have a B&D single speed 2500rpm hand drill that worked really well.
Having the single speed forced me to run the motor fast. I really
wanted to slow the motor down, but that was the big mistake I made
the first time.
3) MOVE THE DRILL SLOW AND SUPPORT IT WELL! I found that if I took
15-20 seconds to drill each hole there never was a tendancy for
cracking. Also support the drill very firmly so that it can't rock
up/down/sideways while you're drilling and more importantly so it
won't go in faster than you want. My arms were tired when I was
done drilling all the holes in the canopy because I was holding
the drill so tightly. It paid off though, as I didn't get a single
crack while I was drilling or countersinking any of the holes!
I got my one crack in the new canopy because I was tightening the
screws as I was putting them in instead of putting them all in
very loosly, then carefully tightening everything up. Dah!
Hope that helps. Hey Van's - how about a pre-punched canopy!!! Yuck, yuck :-)
Matt Dralle
RV-4 Instrument wiring...
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Boone Iowa Fly-in |
--> RV-List message posted by: JamesCone(at)aol.com
I want to fly to the Boone Iowa Fly-in and pig roast. Does anyone know who
to contact to RSVP to let them know I am comming and where to go, etc.
Thanks,
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV6A - Trimming FWD Top Skin F-674 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a@norway-c.it.earthlink.net>
> I have drilled and clecoed my top turtle-deck skins (F-675/674). Before
> removing them for dimpling and riveting, should I try to figure out where
> to trim/cut the forward portion of the F-674 skin. I will be using the
> sliding canopy and could temporally fit the roll cage on the longerons and
> use to map out where the top skin will go. Is this a good idea. Or should
> I not worry about trimming this top skin until I'm ready to install the
> sliding canopy? When is the best time to rivet this top skin? Before
> Canopy installation or after? Thanks for your suggestions.
My suggestions (I just finished this stuff): Absolutely do not rivet
the skin until after you've completed ALL the canopy work. I found
myself needing to make little cuts and trims all during canopy
fitting.
I didn't even start to trim the skin until the roll bar was mounted
and the slider frame in place. At that point, I trimmed
F-674 so it missed the slider frame by 1/2 inch or so. I eventually
had to trim quite a bit more so the slider frame would miss F-674
as the slider was slid back.
Another hint: do not commit to the final location of wd-643 until
the canopy fitting is complete. I did, then the rear of my canopy
didn't mate with F-674 as nicely as I would have liked. I would
have liked to have been able to tilt the roll bar aft just a bit, but
I couldn't because I'd already riveted the support structure for
wd-643 in place.
Jim Cone's instructions are very helpful. I've already ranted
about Van's canopy instructions, so I'll skip any comments on that
subject. Scott in the fab shop at Van's is a very good source
for ideas.
Good luck!
Tim
---------------------
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or
timrv6a(at)iname.com
-----------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a@norway-c.it.earthlink.net>
On 15 Jun 97 at 10:26, Matt Dralle 510-606-1001 wrote:
>. What I found there are three things
> that are important when drilling to avoid cracking:
>
<3 good tips deleted>
I'd add a 4th tip (which I got from the list): Have the canopy HOT.
I never worked on mine unless the room had been at 75 degrees for a
couple of hours, hotter if possible. Even then, I'd run a hair dryer
under the canopy for quite a while to really warm it up. No cracks,
no chips. Canopy done. Ahhhhh!
Tim
---------------------
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or
timrv6a(at)iname.com
-----------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ANR Headsets |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mlfred(at)aol.com
<< There is an ad for an Active Noise Reduction headset made by Lightspeed.
I
claims full stereo and up to 42db of noise reduction. Has anyone on the
list
had any experience with this company? How good is the stereo playback when
the ANR is active? Some ANR headsets cut all sound below the ANR cutoff and
the music sounds very poor. The price is attractive but I have never heard
of the company. Thanks in advance for any opinions.
Jim Cone >>
Jim, and others:
I have a set of these things, and boy are they comfortable! The ANR is as
good as any others (Bose) I've tried. I don't know about the music end of
things, tho. I am a dealer for these jobs, also. The better rated of their
ANR sets are $375/ea.
Let me know if I can help. I have a music input in my bird (PS Engineering PM
1000), but I don't think it's stereo. Email me off the list after a bit, and
I'll give you a report, such that it is.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
--> RV-List message posted by: Craig Hiers <CRAIG-RV-4.@worldnet.att.net>
Tim Lewis wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a@norway-c.it.earthlink.net>
>
> On 15 Jun 97 at 10:26, Matt Dralle 510-606-1001 wrote:
>
> >. What I found there are three things
> > that are important when drilling to avoid cracking:
> >
> <3 good tips deleted>
>
> I'd add a 4th tip (which I got from the list): Have the canopy HOT.
> I never worked on mine unless the room had been at 75 degrees for a
> couple of hours, hotter if possible. Even then, I'd run a hair dryer
> under the canopy for quite a while to really warm it up. No cracks,
> no chips. Canopy done. Ahhhhh!
>
> Tim
> ---------------------
> Tim Lewis
> RV-6AQ #60023
> San Antonio TX
> timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or
> timrv6a(at)iname.com
> -----------------------
I'll add another tip, purchase the plexiglass drill bit from Avery.
My hanger was also very hot and I had no problems with cracking.
I had read all of the horror stories about building the canopy
and I made sure that I built it in the brutal summer heat here
in Florida.
So far the canopy was the biggest pain in the #$$ of the whole project,
but like the man said, canopy done. Ahhhhh
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
My prop does not fit. :(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)op.net> |
| Subject: | Operation Manuals |
--> RV-List message posted by: Louis Willig
YES. I finally purchased the RV-4
I've been dreaming of for the past year. Unfortunately, it is being sold
to me by the estate of the owner. There are no manuals whatever. There
are logs. Does Van provide a manual from which an A&P can work from to
inspect and maintain the aircraft? Also, is there an operations manual
similar to that of certified A/C. I'm not a test pilot and my mommy
wouldn't want me to wonder off in the -4 while still sucking my thumb. If
there is anyone in the Philadelphia, PA. area who wants to help me and
get some free time in the -4, let me know. Oh, my hormones are beginning
to rage. See you at 'Kosh one way or the other. Thanks.
Louis Willig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mauser(at)claris.com (Richard Chandler) |
| Subject: | Re: Rivet Spacing |
--> RV-List message posted by: mauser(at)claris.com (Richard Chandler)
> --> RV-List message posted by: BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net (Chris Brooks)
>
> Michael,
> I draw a straight rivet line and just use the fan spacer to locate
> the rivet spacing along the line. None of the fan spacers I have seen
> will lay out a straight line when they are extended.
Personally, I kinda liked the suggestion from the guy who put some evenly
spaced marks on a strip of waistband elastic and stretched it until he had the
right number of marks between points A and B.
--
Richard Chandler
RV-6: Garage bought and being finished, saving for tools and tail kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: turn coordinator |
--> RV-List message posted by: RICKRV6(at)aol.com
This is not a bad idea. You may want to also consider doing it to your
artificial horizon if you have one. Both my AH and TC are off a bit. I
would have sworn they were level when I built the plane. Live and learn.
Rick McBride
RICKRV6(at)aol.com
RV6 N523JC
RV8 80027
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve McClure <shekinahair(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | RV-4 empty weight? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Steve McClure
We'd like to thank everyone that took the time to give us an honest eval on
actual build times. Guess we're just going to dive in to which ever kit we
get and do our best.
Next question. Van's info gives an empty weight of 905 lbs on an rv-4. What
is the average empty weight on a IFR equipped rv-4.
I weigh in at 225 and 6'2" and carey is 5'2" 125 lbs. So with full fuel and
us we are ok but a larger passenger is definitly going to be marginal.
Steve and Carey McClure
Starting on RV-4 or 6 or 8 August, 97
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: FI Boost pumps |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog(at)aol.com
<< We at Van's are looking into various manufacturers of high pressure (for
fuel injected engines) fuel boost pumps. Does anyone have experience with
any vendors? >>
Bill-
On the 55% Scale P38 replica (you can find an in-flight photo of it by
searching on Diamond Aviation, select Myriad Research and go to Test Flights)
we used two automotive fuel pumps from the autoparts store for the boost
(backup) pumps. These were in-line self priming pumps for some non-descript
Japanese made car (I realize that's redundant, but I can find out the P/N if
you wish). The main pumps were similar in construction but were buried at
the bottom of the fuel tanks. They produce about 70 PSI outright and the
1.3L engines use a circulating fuel rail (with a return to the tank) and a
regulator that maintains the pressure to the injectors at 35-36 PSI. It
works great and when grounded with a real short wire the pumps are very quiet
(acoustically and electrically).
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen
Ok, so I've taken the plunge and opened up the wing skin on my RV-3 to
perform the CN-2-1 (main spar strengthening).
I'm having a hard time setting the AN470AD6- rivets. My rivet gun is a
Chicago Pneumatic CP-4444 AERO S CYL. Is that a 4x gun? It was sold as
a 3/16" capacity but...
Finn (90% complete 90% of the time).
finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
--> RV-List message posted by: mikel(at)dimensional.com
>I had no problems with cracking.
>I had read all of the horror stories about building the canopy
>and I made sure that I built it in the brutal summer heat here
>in Florida.....
I also made sure I was building in the HEAT somewhere, usually in the direct
sun for a little addition solar heating. No cracks. Then, I ran into a
problem on the -4 I had never thought of: I also fitted the skirts while the
canopy was hot and had what seemed like a perfect fit all around.
THEN.......as winter approached and things cooled off I found the most
rearward portion of the canopy skirt (which may be the most difficult to
fit) was suddenly no longer tight against the fuselage top skin by about
1/16" or so. Why? When hot, it fits great: tight. When cold, the aluminum
contracts enough there is a gap. Brother. Can't think of everything. Sorta
reminds me of fitting the *&@%$ cowling........
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Vacuum fittings and highway robbery |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a@iceland-c.it.earthlink.net>
I'm in the process of buying all the gizmos to populate my panel. My
wallet is shrieking in pain.
The Airborne fittings for vacuum lines run about $18-$32 a pop (Chief
catalog). That seems like a lot, but the other catalogs are worse.
What really makes my eyes bug out is the price of $73 for a 5/8 to
5/8" bulkhead connector. YGBSM!!! What have other folks done to get
vacuum from the vacuum pump into the cabin?
And what hoses/lines have you used inside the cabin and in the engine
compartment?
My wallet thanks you in advance.
Tim
---------------------
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or
timrv6a(at)iname.com
-----------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics cooling |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob Skinner
>I'm looking for ideas on keeping the radios cool.
>What have other folks done to keep those expensive radios cool(er)?
>Tim Lewis
Tim,
I built a box around my radio stack and on the end I used a Radio Shack 12
volt fan, about 4" in diameter. Can't remember the cost, but it was very
reasonable. I've had no interferance problems and it's still blowing after
over 350 hours.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)navix.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Boone Iowa Fly-in |
--> RV-List message posted by: TCOlson <tcolson@Cedar-Rapids.Net>
The Boone RV fly in is on the Sat. June 21. They have a pig roast lunch
for the noon meal. The fly-in starts around 9:00 AM or so and goes
through the afternoon. It is open to the public. No RSVPs are
required. It is held at the Boone Airport which is on the South East
side of town. It has a good north-south paved runway and several local
builders that have projects & etc. there for display.
On past years with good weather there were about 30-40 RVs there. Hope
to have mine there next year.
To get further specifics call DJ Lauritsen Interiors at Boone,
515-432-6794.
Rgds
Tom Olson
RV-6a, nearly ready for paint.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum dust in your eyes |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV4Brown(at)aol.com
" You inquired: What is it in your RV that requires so much grinding? I
have used an occasional cutting wheel and even a few seconds on a 3/8 x 13
air sander, but never had to put _that much_ dust into the air on the RV....
"
I think the 3m cutting and polishing wheel is the best thing since sliced
bread. I don't remember many times that I have gone to the shop and not fired
up the grinder. I use the polishing wheel to finish and round the ends on
every piece and edge of material going on to the aircraft. Its easier than
hand filing and polishing with emery cloth. It is so easy to control the
amount of material being removed. I guess the key word is round!
For what its worth, I noticed that it takes just a few seconds of
grinding on the wheel to engulf you in fine material. I also agree with the
gentleman who suggested wearing a respirator. The size of the material being
inhaled may increase the risk of lung disease as well as irritate the nose
linings. (No I'm not a Doctor and I don't play one on TV. )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jacquelyn eastburn" <jimnjax(at)worldnet.att.net> |
--> RV-List message posted by: "jacquelyn eastburn"
picked up my -8 wings last Wednesday at van's. happy happy- joy joy..To you
who are working on the tail kit or are waiting for the wings to arrive, let
me tell you what a thrill it is to open those two boxes. Everything so
neatly packaged and whoa, when you lay your eyes on that spar with all
those little holes drilled all over the place, it makes you think, man,
glad I didn't have to drill them.
jim and jackie eastburn,
Hillsboro, Oregon 97124
jimnjac(at)worldnet.att.net
RV-8 80079
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivet gun size |
--> RV-List message posted by: Tom Martin
>--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen
>
>Ok, so I've taken the plunge and opened up the wing skin on my RV-3 to
>perform the CN-2-1 (main spar strengthening).
>
>I'm having a hard time setting the AN470AD6- rivets. My rivet gun is a
>Chicago Pneumatic CP-4444 AERO S CYL. Is that a 4x gun? It was sold as
>a 3/16" capacity but...
What about replacing the rivets with bolts. They would be stronger and
easier to fit into cramped spots. I think that the only penalty would be
weight and the cost of bolts. What do others think?
Tom Martin
RV-4 250hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Colquitt" <jcolquit(at)law.ua.edu> |
| Subject: | Vacuum fittings and highway robbery |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Joe Colquitt"
Tim Lewis asked:
> The Airborne fittings for vacuum lines run about $18-$32 a pop (Chief
> catalog). That seems like a lot, but the other catalogs are worse.
> What really makes my eyes bug out is the price of $73 for a 5/8 to
> 5/8" bulkhead connector. YGBSM!!! What have other folks done to get
> vacuum from the vacuum pump into the cabin?
>
I spoke with several aircraft "recyclers". ;-) They told me that
"off-the-shelf" prices are usually about 1/3 of new and I can pick
and choose my parts if I want. At least that makes Airborne fittings
run about $6-$10 a piece, but your bulkhead fitting still would be
$24. Better than $73 though.
If one is careful in choosing, is there a problem with buying
previously owned "hardware" like vacuum fittings?
Joe Colquitt
colquitt(at)tusc.net
Flying RV-3A (building GlaStar)
Joseph A. (Joe) Colquitt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Price |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
<< The owner wants $10,900. Is this reasonable? If not, what is the market
value? >>
That's a lot of money. How 'bout $5,000 - $6,000 if all is OK. Cost to
Overhaul will be about $8,000.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vacuum fittings and highway robbery |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Gesele
>I'm in the process of buying all the gizmos to populate my panel. My
>wallet is shrieking in pain.
>
>The Airborne fittings for vacuum lines run about $18-$32 a pop (Chief
>catalog). That seems like a lot, but the other catalogs are worse.
>What really makes my eyes bug out is the price of $73 for a 5/8 to
>5/8" bulkhead connector. YGBSM!!! What have other folks done to get
>vacuum from the vacuum pump into the cabin?
>
>And what hoses/lines have you used inside the cabin and in the engine
>compartment?
>
>My wallet thanks you in advance.
>
>Tim
>
Tim,
It's not as bad as it first looks, at least for the fittings for the vacuum
system. Try Wicks for the fittings that go on the vacuum pump. If I
remember correctly, they were the least expensive by a large margin. You do
not need the bulkhead fitting. The vacuum regulator (required) has an
integrated bulkhead fitting and mounts to the firewall.
You do need a special hose for the vacuum system, one that will not collapse
under vacuum. Aeroquip 306 hose, available from ASS is designed for this
application.
On a side note, the vacuum system is the only item remaining to install in
my panel. My panel has a removable section to mount the A/I and D/G on. I
will use AN816 nipples on the gyros and Aeroquip 471 hose fittings where the
vacuum lines connect to the gyros. The idea is to remove the expensive
gyros and leave them on the ground during aerobatics. There is a blank
plate that will fill this "hole" in the panel for operations without the
gyros. The T/C will always be in the plane and on, even during aerobatics.
I personally consider at least one gyro to be mandatory equipment. From
past info on this list, the T/C is least susceptible to damage from acro.
Your wallet is shrieking in pain???? I guess that your not finished
buying out your panel. My wallet stopped shrieking a while ago, it now
shows no sign of life at all.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele M506RV (Still painting)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How much Time? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Gesele
>>2000 hours build time devided by 2 of us putting in 80 hours a week the
>>>plane should be complete after 6 months. Is this a realistic assumption?
>>
>>80 hours a week is a *lot*.
>>I guess if I wasn't working a fulltime job, and prepared to give up my
>>entire social life, I could manage 80 hours per week. Your schedule could
>>get seriously screwed if you screw up a part and need to order a replacement.
>>
>>In some cases, having two guys will more than double your build rate. In
>>others, it won't increase it much.
>>
>
>Yikes!! Nicely put, Frank. 80 hours a week is like two full-time jobs.
>Easy to get BURNED OUT cramming that much time into building. Good-by wife,
>good-by social life, good-by flying......(stay current).
>
>There are some days you go out to the garage and just have no interest in
>doing ANYTHING on the airplane. And on those days you probably shouldn't as
>you will probably screw something up.
>
I find that anytime I set a time limit on a project, the workmanship
suffers. If you must have an RV within 6 months, buy a completed one.
During the construction process, you will be learning many new skills.
There is definitely a learning curve every step of the way.
Right now, I'm painting. I initially set a one month limit to get this job
done. The first few pieces were awful. There was enough orange peel that I
considered changing the color to orange and naming the plane Sunkist.
Yesterday the wings were painted. I had spent two weeks and roughly 40
hours in prep. The paint came out pretty good. After the paint dried, I
then sanded an area with 1500 grit and hand rubbed. I now have a section
that looks like a mirror. The remainder of this week, I will finish both
panels with this technique. So instead of a month to paint the whole
project, the wings will have taken close to a month. The end result will be
much better than if I had stuck with the initial estimate.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV (painting)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Vacuum fittings and highway robbery |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog(at)aol.com
<< What have other folks done to get
vacuum from the vacuum pump into the cabin? >>
Just get an Airborne vacuum regulator 2H3-23 and mount it to the firewall.
You don't need the bulkhead fitting.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: How much Time? |
| From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
--> RV-List message posted by: ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy)
> We are placing our order for an RV-8 in August. My question is; what
would be
>a realistic time estimate on building the plane with 2 fulltime people.
>I've read and reread all the liturature from Van's info and we figure
>that at 2000 hours build time devided by 2 of us putting in 80 hours a
week
>the plane should be complete after 6 months. Is this a realistic
assumption?
Theoretically yes; practically no. While 2000 hours may be a realistic
figure, for most of us that is what we spend actually banging on metal.
You can not believe the amount of time spent head-scratching, missions to
Home Depot, Office Max, et al, to scrounge parts and supplies, placing
(and waiting for) orders to ACS, Vans, etc.
I kept an accurate log of ACTUAL aircraft building time, but I'll bet
that factoring in all of the "other" necessary RV-consumed time would
almost double that figure.
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Vacuum fittings and highway robbery |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
<< What have other folks done to get vacuum from the vacuum pump into the
cabin? >>
I used standard AN pipe-to-barb fittings (AN840 & AN842) for my vacuum
system. They work just fine. I used an Airborne bulkhead fitting that I got
cheep at Oshkosh however, you could make a bulkhead fitting using two
AN840's, some washers and an AN910 coulper. Hope this helps.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vacuum fittings and highway robbery |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob Skinner
>The Airborne fittings for vacuum lines run about $18-$32 a pop (Chief
>And what hoses/lines have you used inside the cabin and in the engine
>compartment?
>Tim Lewis
Tim,
I used heater hose from the vacuum pump to the firewall mounted air
regulator. In the cockpit, I used a combination of nylon barbed fittings
and nylon fittings using sleeves and nuts and either the nyloflo tubing (for
compression fittings) or vinyl tubing (for use with the barbed fittings).
These cost from $.45 - $ 3.00. I have just over 350 hours on the six with
no problems and I just had the second transponder/encoder check done and
there was no leak down on the static side of the system.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)navix.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven Spruell" <SSPRUELL(at)us.oracle.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FLAPS UP SWITCH |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Steven Spruell"
--=_ORCL_21726447_0_11919706161301350
Interesting. I frequently fly a Beech Muskateer that is actually placarded to
raise the
flaps immediately after touchdown. It's in the POH, too. If you don't, you go
bouncing and
squirming down the runway.
I am installing a linear motion left-hand throttle quadrant in my -6A, and I plan
to put the
flap switch just forward of the throttle on the far left hand side of the panel.
Should
prevent inadvertant retraction, but I can easily hit the up switch without looking
down
in case of a go-around.
*************************************************************************
* Steven Spruell League City, TX *
* sspruell(at)us.oracle.com RV-6A #24721 (Wings) *
* *
* Houston Bay Area RVators: http://www.iwl.net/customers/markr/hbar *
*************************************************************************
--=_ORCL_21726447_0_11919706161301350
Date: 13 Jun 97 18:56:22
From:"Denny Harjehausen "
Subject:Re: RV-List: FLAPS UP SWITCH
--> RV-List message posted by: Denny Harjehausen
>--> RV-List message posted by: AB320FLYER(at)aol.com
>
>>>I have an extra momentary switch on top of my control stick in my RV-4, and
>would like to set this switch up to control 'flaps up'.
. The jet-liners use it also. How
>about some input on this?<<
>
>The jet-liners that I know about don't retract the flaps on landing, they
>deploy spoilers automatically to dump the lift at at touchdown, and use drag
>from the flaps to aid in deceleration. At the RV touchdown speeds the flap
>drag obviously isn't as important, but could save some brake wear. I guess I
>would be more concerned with momentarily diverting your attention to flap
>retraction at touchdown, unless you're very comfortable with your airplane.
>
We were absolutely forbidden retract flaps or spoilers until we
cleared the runway, when things slowed down and we had the time divert our
attention. The check guys and the FAA would jump you for it. And of course
if you did anyway cause you thought all that was for the uncool and
something happened like sqwash a runway or taxi light it was " to the
penalty box for thirty days with no pay.... Oh Owww! Made me a believer.
Have A Great Day!
Denny
Denton Harjehausen
retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com
RV-6/ Fuselage
Lebanon, OR
--=_ORCL_21726447_0_11919706161301350--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV4131rb(at)aol.com
Mike,
That flaking around the edges is what you need to worry about. You need to
take a counter sink or deburring tool and remove that hard portion of glass
left over from the drill burning its way through. You only need to remove
material until you have gotten back into the soft material. Also make sure
there are no chips if there are try and remove them if possible with the
counter sink tool. Finished product should have no sharp edges,burrs,chips,or
work hardened material. It may not seem like a big deal now but it will be
when you start pulling rivets or screws through the plastic.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mike Wills
There was a thread recently about tailwheel chains, cables, slack in the
system, etc. While at Camarillo this weekend I got the chance to finally see
Jim Ayers' RV-3. He has a castering/locking tailwheel on his airplane which
looks extremely clean and simple and which he says functions very well.
I dont want to set Jim or myself up for any flames, but this looks like
something I would like to try. Anyone with experience with a locking
tailwheel, positive and negative, care to provide some feedback?
I am really surprised that the speed freaks havent jumped on this as it
eliminates the chains and looks to be quite easy to fair both the wheel and
the spring.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Time to build RV8 - how to speed it up |
--> RV-List message posted by: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Hi Steve and all who need more time,
Better get started, Steve, time is a'wasting!
There are a few things that slow your project down which are unrelated to how
much time you have.
- Kit arrives later than planned.
- A tool, available only from Averys etc is needed to proceed.
- A part needs to be replaced due to mismfr or you mess it up.
- Someone near to you gets very ill or dies.
- Your wife gets grouchy!
- You develop tennis (cleco) elbow, injure your hand, get the flu, etc
- You and your partner have a falling out or just disagreements on how to...
There are things you can do to speed up too.
- Hire help with some parts. Check the rules but generally if you've done some,
you can hire out the rest. Sanding, buffing, etching, priming, bucking,
unpacking and sorting parts, cleaning the shop, etc.
- Use vendors for engine, panel, upholstery - the FAA couldn't care less on some
items in a pattern that seems odd to me. You build the airframe and you can
hire all of the rest.
- To get to test flight point, defer tasks not necessary for test flight,
painting, upholstery, full panel, etc. It will probably take a few weeks to fly
off restriction.
- Use all power tools, cleco tool, squeezer
- Do shoddy work - or at least not show quality.
- Use hi-tech methods like the 3M super tape to replace some rivets, water based
primer for internal stuff
- Use sheet metal screws in some of the plate nut places - a plate nut takes 18
operations to install.
- Use more pop rivets than other builders do
- If not near the salt chuck, don't prime alclad at all
- Have lots of space to spread out, lots of tables
- Have every needed tool and several of some
- Wear a jacket or apron with frequently used tools etc in pockets.
- Organize tools and parts storage well - don't use little drawers
- While working notice how many things you do that don't contribute anything to
finished product.
- Look at other RV's in finished and partial states.
- Don't modify anything
- Practice "eyeballing" measurements - sometimes it is the most accurate way.
- Have others bring coffee, food, band-aides.
- Be working on several different parts at once
- When you get the kit, don't inventory the little $ stuff - its probably there.
- If your time is super valuable, have a "nurse" to hand you tools, scalpals etc
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- On main gear
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Hatwell <hatters(at)overvne.demon.co.uk> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Rob Hatwell
In message <970614202250_91028729(at)emout12.mail.aol.com>, aol.com!THeard5
782(at)matronics.com writes
>--> RV-List message posted by: THeard5782(at)aol.com
>
>My wife three sons (8,6,4) are considering a six month visit to New Zealand.
>I'm interested in building a RV with someone in the Christchurch area and
>would
>love to hear any comments or recommendations about general aviation in NZ.
>
>I'm a 45yo former U.S. Navy submariner turned cardiologist planning to take
>a break from clinical medicine for a while.
Try gliding at Omarama south of Christchurch, write it up on the list
and then see how long it takes Van to visit you.
--
Rob Hatwell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shelby1138(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Heat soaked engine problems solved. |
--> RV-List message posted by: Shelby1138(at)aol.com
Jim,
I am concerned about all of the fuel circulating in the cockpit. I also do
not understand the return back to the fuel selector. Could you go back
through hwo all of this works. Maybe this would be a good article for your
newletter. Specifically, the plumbing of fuel and return lines on Fuel
injected RVs.
Shelby In Nashville
Thinking about my IO-360
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Denny Harjehausen
(Snip)
>Jim Ayers' RV-3. He has a castering/locking tailwheel on his airplane which
>looks extremely clean and simple and which he says functions very well.
(Snip)
, but this looks like something I would like to try. Anyone with experience
with a locking tailwheel, positive and negative, care to provide some feedback?
> I am really surprised that the speed freaks havent jumped on this as it
>eliminates the chains and looks to be quite easy to fair both the wheel and
>the spring.
(Snip)
>
Tell me more, it might interest a few of us in our group. I been involved
with a couple older types that had them, the only down side I can recall was
forgetting to lock the tail wheel.
Have A Good One!
Denny
RV-6/ Fuselage (R) N641DH
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | question on floor |
--> RV-List message posted by: homerj(at)fast.net
Hello all- new member to the list!!
First post.
I am working on quick build kit- My question is on the floor area where
the stick goes thru removable panel just behind the spar. Drawings are a
bit unclear on location of nutplates- The flat area which covers the spar-
Are there two rows of nutplates across the width of aircraft or just one.
>From what I can tell, It looks like one row of nutplates in the flange just
aft and against the spar. Is that correct??
Also in fitting the floor covers under the seats, the ribs are not level.
It looks like if the floor gets riveted down it will be pulling on the
flanges or bend the floor panels. Did anyone else run into this?? Any
ideas??
Thanks
DAN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivet gun size |
--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen
Tom Martin wrote:
> >I'm having a hard time setting the AN470AD6- rivets. My rivet gun is a
> >Chicago Pneumatic CP-4444 AERO S CYL. Is that a 4x gun? It was sold > >as a
3/16" capacity but...
>
> What about replacing the rivets with bolts. They would be stronger and
> easier to fit into cramped spots. I think that the only penalty would > > be
weight and the cost of bolts. What do others think?
Tom,
That has definitely crossed my mind. But as Tracy Crook pointed out to
me at Sun'n'Fun, bolts tend to shrink in diameter as the nut is
tightend, whereas rivets fill out all space in the material being
riveted. He did suggest that maybe putting JB-weld in the hole together
with the bolt might handle that problem. If this is true then the idea
is VERY tempting - save for the weight: 30 bolts, washers and nuts per
side! But what's another 1.5 lbs in addition to the 6 lbs of the spar
modification?
Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John <john(at)catlover.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 front seat bottom structure |
--> RV-List message posted by: John
Jody J EDWARDS wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: jodyedwards(at)juno.com (Jody J EDWARDS)
>
> I'm considering having a local interior shop {friend} do my seat cushions
> for my RV-4 but I'm kind of lost when it comes to ideas and dimensions.
> Any help? Thanks in
> advance Jody
> Edwards RV-4 on
> gear
Tony Bingelis wrote an article on seats for his -6, Sport Aviation,
August, 1990. I imagine it's also in one of his books.
--
Best Regards, John Bright, Newport News, VA, USA, john(at)catlover.com, -6
empennage on hand, tool shopping
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rivet spacing tool |
--> RV-List message posted by: MarkVN(at)aol.com
My rivet spacing tool has the same problem. I asked Avery aboout it and
was told that a few years ago they did have a bad batch that was like
that.... I got mine used from a guy that started his project a few years ago,
soooo I figure this is one of those
bad ones. If you got yours recently, Ide call and find out if youi can get it
replaced...
good luck... Markvn(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivet gun size |
--> RV-List message posted by: Leo Davies
>Tom Martin wrote:
>
>> >I'm having a hard time setting the AN470AD6- rivets. My rivet gun is a
>> >Chicago Pneumatic CP-4444 AERO S CYL. Is that a 4x gun? It was sold >
>as a 3/16" capacity but...
>>
>> What about replacing the rivets with bolts. They would be stronger and
>> easier to fit into cramped spots. I think that the only penalty would > >
be weight and the cost of bolts. What do others think?
>
>Tom,
>That has definitely crossed my mind. But as Tracy Crook pointed out to
>me at Sun'n'Fun, bolts tend to shrink in diameter as the nut is
>tightend, whereas rivets fill out all space in the material being
>riveted. He did suggest that maybe putting JB-weld in the hole together
>with the bolt might handle that problem.
Tom,
This repair seems critical structurally and if you wanted to deviate from
the recommended fix I would be inclined to run it past Van's.
Leo Davies 6A still forlornly waiting for my new Lycoming
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Vacuum fittings and highway robbery |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog(at)aol.com
<< I used standard AN pipe-to-barb fittings (AN840 & AN842) for my vacuum
system. They work just fine. I used an Airborne bulkhead fitting that I
got
cheep at Oshkosh however, you could make a bulkhead fitting using two
AN840's, some washers and an AN910 coulper. >>
I'm sure this arrangement will work, but consider that your gyros will remain
healthier if not starved for air flow. The Airborne fittings are designed to
facilitate maximum flow in the system. I believe that they have an ID
slightly greater than that of 3/8" dia aluminum tubing (>.205"). 3/8" barb
fittings are of somewhat smaller ID. A buddy of mine is a Gyro tech and
recommends the full flow fittings highly.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Colwell <colwell(at)innercite.com> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Steve Colwell
Denny Harjehausen wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Denny Harjehausen
>
> (Snip)
> >Jim Ayers' RV-3. He has a castering/locking tailwheel on his airplane which
> >looks extremely clean and simple and which he says functions very well.
> (Snip)
> , but this looks like something I would like to try. Anyone with experience
> with a locking tailwheel, positive and negative, care to provide some feedback?
> > I am really surprised that the speed freaks havent jumped on this as it
> >eliminates the chains and looks to be quite easy to fair both the wheel and
> >the spring.
> (Snip)
> >
>
> Tell me more, it might interest a few of us in our group. I been involved
> with a couple older types that had them, the only down side I can recall was
> forgetting to lock the tail wheel.
> Have A Good One!
>
> Denny
> RV-6/ Fuselage (R) N641DH
> Lebanon, OR
I have a new (still in the box) Aviation Products lockable, full swivel
tailwheel. It is setup for a RV round tailspring and a control cable.
This is a high quality part, used on Pitts and Christen Eagles. I paid
$187.00-----will sell for $150.00.
Steve Colwell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Colwell <colwell(at)innercite.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum dust in your eyes |
--> RV-List message posted by: Steve Colwell
aol.com!RV4Brown(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: RV4Brown(at)aol.com
>
> " You inquired: What is it in your RV that requires so much grinding? I
> have used an occasional cutting wheel and even a few seconds on a 3/8 x 13
> air sander, but never had to put _that much_ dust into the air on the RV....
> "
>
>
One thing you may like is to suck most of the stuff out of your shop.
My 2"x16' Shopvac hose is mounted thru the shop ceiling over the cockpit
so I don't have to drag the screaming vac around the shop with its exit
air blowing the stuff on the floor up so I can inhale it too. I routed
2" PVC overhead and then outside to a 1.75 HP Sears vac connected to the
PVC with a 2" ID Rubber Plumbing Flex Connector. The noise level is
MUCH lower and I rigged a switch to the nozzle end so its convenient to
use. I follow the dust generater (grinder-sander-etc.) closely with the
vac and I think 90+% of the dust is inhaled by the vac and not me.
Steve Colwell RV6 flyer-Lancair 360 builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Vacuum fittings and highway robbery |
--> RV-List message posted by: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Go to an aircraft salvage yard and get the fittings that you need from a
wreck. These things can be had much cheaper that way.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: How much Time? |
--> RV-List message posted by: JamesCone(at)aol.com
I built my 6A in exactly 2272 hours. I kept a very careful log of my working
time and updated it daily. I did not count my wife's time when she helped me
buck rivets, etc. Things that took extra time for me were building three
instument panels before I got one that I liked and that did not have
intereference problems with the shock mounting; lots of extra fiberglass work
on fairings for the wings, empennage, canopy, and gear legs; a rudder trim
system; a cowl flap system; a windshield defog system; and installing a full
IFR instrument system and a big stack of radios. I think that all those
things added at least 400 hours to the project. I did have the advantage of
having built a Sea Hawker before so some of the systems and engine
installation were easier because of the previous experience. It was a true
labor of love.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cfggg <ddebt(at)pathcom.com> |
--> RV-List message posted by: cfggg
I have one on my tailspring. They are simple to make, mine is just bits of
welded plate (0.125 4130) and a couple of bolts. Since first flight is still
a ways off, I can't report on how well it works.
Several warbirds have an actuation system where the stick must be pushed
full forward to unlock the tailwheel. This kind of thing will keep the pilot
from forgetting to lock it. A strap to hold the stick forward will allow the
aircraft to be pushed around on the ground. I am still trying to set this up.
Does anybody know how to hide the rudder cables?
David Fried
>Denny Harjehausen wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Denny Harjehausen
>
> (Snip)
>Jim Ayers' RV-3. He has a castering/locking tailwheel on his airplane which
> >looks extremely clean and simple and which he says functions very well.
> (Snip)
> , but this looks like something I would like to try. Anyone with experience
> with a locking tailwheel, positive and negative, care to provide some
feedback?
> > I am really surprised that the speed freaks havent jumped on this as it
> >eliminates the chains and looks to be quite easy to fair both the wheel and
> >the spring.
> (Snip)
>
> Tell me more, it might interest a few of us in our group. I been involved
> with a couple older types that had them, the only down side I can recall was
> forgetting to lock the tail wheel.
> Have A Good One!
>
> Denny
> RV-6/ Fuselage (R) N641DH
> Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: tailwheels- locking and otherwise |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mlfred(at)aol.com
<< Anyone with experience with a locking
tailwheel, positive and negative, care to provide some feedback? >>
I had occasion to ferry a Boredom Fighter to Chino from Austin a few years
back. I stopped for fuel in AZ in the middle of that summer afternoon, and
the thing didn't want to climb more than about 50 ft. I thought I'd have to
land on the feeder road, and TAXI over a ridge (5500 MSL or so) that was in
front of me. Cleared that ridge by at least 20 ft! But, I digress. It had
such a setup. I remember not locking the thing ONCE, but the resulting
groundloop did no damage to the bird. I say it works. I could still maneuver
on the ground OK. Seems P-51's & T-6's had a locking/steerable setup,
connected to the stick somehow. Some Pitt's have a locking setup also.
I''ve often wondered how to do this to my present bird, but I don't want to
re-invent the wheel, so to speak.
Jim, are plans available?
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivet gun size - chatter |
--> RV-List message posted by: Patrick Kelley
Finn Lassen wrote:
>
> But what's another 1.5 lbs in addition to the 6 lbs of the spar
> modification?
ummmmm....(This is a trick question, right?)....1.5 lbs? Despite the
fact that I am adding every instrument known to man plus that beefy
pitot-tube mount, I am trying to keep it light wherever possible. This
means cutting every optional lightening hole, trimming corners of each
piece, removing *all* excess material, installing helium bladders
(kidding - obviously, I use hot air), etc. I realize you were just
joking, but I couldn't resist the opportunity to mention a couple of
maxims I learned while building contest model sailplanes: 1) enough
ounces saved add up to pounds saved. and 2) excess weight near the
center of mass is easier to balance than weight farther from the center
- moral: pay more attention to the ounces in the extremities.
PatK - reluctantly leaving the 'fridge out of my RV-6A ;-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: turn coordinator |
--> RV-List message posted by: Cafgef(at)aol.com
<< The mounting holes in my Cherokee are actually mounting slots that allows
you to rotate the TC to center the ball in a level attitude when mounting
it. I plan to drill two holes in each screw location and file out the
material between them to make short arc slots so I can turn it in my RV6
(when I get there).
Scott, I wondered about how to get my attitude straight. D--- obvious. I
wish that I had thought of it. I'm going for long holes. Sometimes reading
this list comes in handy. Thanks
Gene, Nice warm weather and cutting on the canopy and taking flying lessons
'cause I didn't fly for so long while I saved up money for instruments.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Denny Harjehausen
>I have a new (still in the box) Aviation Products lockable, full swivel
>tailwheel. It is setup for a RV round tailspring and a control cable.
>This is a high quality part, used on Pitts and Christen Eagles. I paid
>$187.00-----will sell for $150.00.
>Steve Colwell
>
Steve,
I might be interested if you still have it after I find out a little
more about them and I give it some more thought. I am mostly interested in
cleaning up the tail wheel area with all the cables and chains hanging out
in the breeze. I'm trying to cut the drag to get a little more out the O-320
as most of the guys around here are running O-360 or IO-360s. That way I
might not keep up with them, but I can brag about the MPG I get.
I purchased Van's pop-out swivel tail wheel unit for the easier turn
around ablity. The thing I'm concerned about is when it is locked what
resistance will the tailwheel give in correcting a directional problem.
Decades ago when I flew co-pilot on locking tail wheel types, we were
required to roll straight a little before locking the tail wheel. But I was
so green then I don't know if it was me or the tailwheel that gave me
troubles in a cross wind.
Even the 747 had what we termed a locking tailwheel, actually the center
gear when unlocked operated in opposite to the nose wheel for ease of ground
operation on tight corners. I had a second officer that decided to help
lighten my load and unlock it on short final without advising me in JFK. I
danced all over that runway.
Have a Great Day!
Denny
RV-6/ Fuselage (R)N641DH
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd <tmrv6(at)pop.erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ANR Headsets |
--> RV-List message posted by: Todd
aol.com!JamesCone(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: JamesCone(at)aol.com
>
> There is an ad for an Active Noise Reduction headset made by Lightspeed. I
> claims full stereo and up to 42db of noise reduction. Has anyone on the list
> had any experience with this company?
Jim,
I just bought a Lightspeed headset (15K) and have about 4 hours on
it.They sell 2 ANR type headsets. The 15K ($295.00) and the 20K
($375.00). I have no other experience with ANR type headsets. It cuts
all of the low frequency pulses from the prop and whatever. I took a 2
hour flight the other day and when I got out of the plane, I didn't feel
like my head was full of lead.
There is still enough noise and feel so that if anything went wrong
with the engine I feel sure you would know about it before the prop
stopped....I'd be happy to never find out if that statement is true.
Their Web Page is located at:
http://www.teleport.com/%7Elitspeed/we04000.htm
> How good is the stereo playback when
> the ANR is active?
I haven't hooked up the stereo yet.
BTW I am ordering another headset today.
Hope this helps.
Todd tmrv6(at)erols.com RV-6 N92TM Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
--> RV-List message posted by: LesDrag(at)aol.com
<< Does anybody know how to hide the rudder cables?
David Fried
>>
Yes.
But it's probably not worth doing again.
Jim Ayers
LesDrag(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
--> RV-List message posted by: LesDrag(at)aol.com
<< Several warbirds have an actuation system where the stick must be pushed
full forward to unlock the tailwheel. This kind of thing will keep the pilot
from forgetting to lock it. A strap to hold the stick forward will allow the
aircraft to be pushed around on the ground. I am still trying to set this
up.
(Snip)
David Fried
>>
HI David and all,
I find I normally have the tailwheel unlocked all of the time except;
1.) I lock the tailwheel on the turn onto the runway for take-off. This is
actually preparation for landing, and I kick the rudder when I straighten out
on the runway to verify that the tailwheel is locked. (The pin locking hole
is oversize so there is VERY limited steering. More than enough to steer
down the runway :-), but less than enough to turn off at a taxi way (oops,
missed the turn and almost pushed the brake pedal thru the firewall).)
2.) I lock the tailwheel when I tie the aircraft down on the ramp.
I talked to Van about offering this as one of my Less Drag Products, but Van
recommended against it.
Even though it uses the standard tail spring, a modified tail wheel fork
(disk instead of horn), and a few pieces of aluminum bolted on, it is not
available.
I ran a 1/16" stainless steel cable to a lever in the left side panel to
lock/unlock the tailwheel.
Jim Ayers
LesDrag(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Want to buy - cracked canopies |
--> RV-List message posted by: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
With so many cracking them...anyone want to sell one that is not drilled full of
holes?
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- On main gear
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Moore" <dmoore8(at)tuelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How much Time? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Moore"
Steve McClure sent:
>
> We are new to the list and have a lot of questions. I'll keep this to
one.
> I have been trying for 4 years to find the time to build an RV. We are
> placing our order for an RV-8 in August. My question is; what would be a
> realistic time estimate on building the plane with 2 fulltime people.
It depends on a lot of factors:
is this your first project?
are you a profectionist?
are you building a show plane, or just a work horse?
VFR or IFR?
do you want to stay married?
6 months sounds optimistic. In any event, does it really matter? Your
mental attitude to the project will be much healthier if you throw away the
calendar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: question on floor |
--> RV-List message posted by: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
> I am working on quick build kit- My question is on the floor area where
> the stick goes thru removable panel just behind the spar. Drawings are a
> bit unclear on location of nutplates- The flat area which covers the spar-
[snip!]
I don't know how the quick-build instructions might differ from the
slo-build, but my advice would be to stick a nut-plate at each end of
each fwd seat panel (notice that since the panels overlap there will be
two nut-plates towards the middle of the right hand panel). Leave off
any other nut-plates until you get the stick hole sized. Once that is
done, put one on each side of each hole.
Also note that the plans don't clearly show that you need to cut out
part of the carrythrough flange, most of the way back to the web, in
order for the stick to go forward as far as it needs to. They really
ought to update the plans in this area -- I don't think the drawings
even show this cut-out. You kind of have to infer it from dwg 37, "F640
seat-fwd", which show that the holes in the seat do go forward of the
bend in the seat, which portion sits on top of the flange of the
carrythrough.
>Also in fitting the floor covers under the seats, the ribs are not level.
>It looks like if the floor gets riveted down it will be pulling on the
>flanges or bend the floor panels. Did anyone else run into this??
I thought they had fixed this, guess not. On mine all the ribs were
fine except the end ones, which came out approx. 1/8" to 3/16" low. I
just riveted some shims to the tops of the rib flanges.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: Want to buy - cracked canopies |
--> RV-List message posted by: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001)
>--------------
>--> RV-List message posted by: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
>
>With so many cracking them...anyone want to sell one that is not drilled full
>of holes?
>
>
>Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- On main gear
>halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
>
>--------------
Hi Hal,
Got one! Its for an RV-4. I basically just has the cracks that were caused
by the drilling - one ~.75" near the front and 2 ~2" near the rear. Other
than that it's in good shape. I'm just over in Livermore so I'm close.
Make me an offer.
Matt
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Reamers- "The hole story" |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV4Brown(at)aol.com
There was a quiry posted several days ago pertaining to the proper hole
size to use prior to reaming. I have too much respect for those individuals
who earn their living in the trade to call myself a machinist but I do have
some experience in the area. The following information was extracted from
"Marks Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineers" and the "Machinery's
Handbook" - both good references. The information was extracted for STRAIGHT
FLUTED CHUCKING REAMERS less than 0.500 inches in diameter. I thought that
would cover the RV range of holes.
The straight reamer is designed to remove a small amount of material
0.004 to 0.008 inches of material. This generaly means that you would drill
one to two number sizes smaller. I would use two sizes under for a 1/4 inch
hole and one size under for a number 40 hole. Remember, most drills drill
larger than indicated. On a test of 2,800 holes drilled in steel and cast
iron the 1/16" drill drilled a mean of 1.5 thousands large. The 1/2" drill
drilled .005 larger on average.
My recommendation is to try a test hole. Twist drills with two flutes do
not drill a perfectly round hole. The effect is aggrivated when drilling
thinner material and by misalignment and movement of the drill. Just like the
problem with countersinking, as soon as the mandral breaks through, the hole
gets oblong or chatters. With a drill, as soon as the web tip breaks though
the material, the drill is unstable. This usually isn't a problem with
thicker material. I would suggest that when using a pilot hole for a drill,
that the size is kept close to the web size (thats the drill point width).
Problems with reaming:
Oversize holes - With aluminum this is generally caused by reamer setup
and chips or gaulding of chips to the reamer
Bellmouth holes - holes larger on one end than the other - caused by
misalignment of the cutting portion of the reamer to the hole.
Poor finish - usually caused by feed speed of the reamer. Feeds as low
as 0.0002 inches per revelution have been used. Remember this when you are
using your hand held air drill reaming a hole. Good luck
Recommendations:
Use a test hole of similar thickness
Use a slow speed when reaming if possible
Be especially careful when breaking through the opposite side of the
material. An edge or burr left from drilling can break a small reamer.
Drill one to two number drill sizes smaller than the final hole size.
Use a backing board or other material to increase thickness when drilling
thin material.
Use either straight fluted or spiral fluted hand reamers or straight
fluted chucking reamers. I would not recommend tapered bridge reamers.
For tools both cutting and measuring, I might suggest ENCO. They are not
the highest quality tooling that can be purchased but it will work for the
amount of work that is required for the RV. They can be reached at 1 800
USE ENCO. McMaster Carr also carries a wide line of products but is more
expensive. For the typical applications needed on the RV, Avery and Cleveland
both carry undersize reamers for close tolerances holes.
The best success scenario is for the reamer to be held firmly and securely
in a milling machine or close tolerance drill press with the work being
firmly clamped to a base. The remaer is then slowly machine fed into the
hole. With the RV, many holes have to be reamed in place with a hand held
drill. Fortunately the tolerances required on the RV are typically not real
tight. I haven't found many areas that require anything closer than a sliding
fit. I can't think of any press fits. Hopefully this will provide some help.
Tom Brown - RV4
fuselage in fixture
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Union Hydraulics" <unionhyd(at)s140.aone.net.au> |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Union Hydraulics"
unscribe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Heat soaked engine problems solved. |
--> RV-List message posted by: JamesCone(at)aol.com
To all who have suggested that I explain further how the plumbing on my fuel
return system works, I plan to write a complete description in my newsletter
with a diagram on how it is hooked up. Thanks for all the nice comments
about my newsletter.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: question on floor |
--> RV-List message posted by: Leo Davies
>
>>Also in fitting the floor covers under the seats, the ribs are not level.
>>It looks like if the floor gets riveted down it will be pulling on the
>>flanges or bend the floor panels. Did anyone else run into this??
>
>I thought they had fixed this, guess not. On mine all the ribs were
>fine except the end ones, which came out approx. 1/8" to 3/16" low. I
>just riveted some shims to the tops of the rib flanges.
>
>Randall Henderson, RV-6
>randall(at)edt.com
>http://www.edt.com/homewing
>
Randall,
I'm delighted that mine will not be the only RV with 1/8 shims on top of the
outboard seat rib flanges.
Leo Davies
leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: How much Time? |
--> RV-List message posted by: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
> Your
> mental attitude to the project will be much healthier if you throw away the
> calendar.
Truer words were never spoken! That's what I did, two years into my
"two-year" project. It's now 4 1/2 years and I'm still happily plugging
away. Of course at least once a week some bozo has to come in and say
"What's your projected completion date?" Good thing I don't own any
guns....
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | For Sale Tools -Avery Kit |
--> RV-List message posted by: N45189(at)aol.com
I'm getting transferred to the west coast and have to sell off my RV tool kit
from Avery. Anybody interested, please contact me direct at n45189(at)aol.com.
Please leave your emaill address and/or your phone number. I'm located in
Agawam Mass near Springfield.
Mike Kredar
N45189(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Hinch <chris(at)dcc.govt.nz> |
| Subject: | Computers on board? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Chris Hinch
Without wanting to sound too much like a *complete* nerd, what difficulties
are involved in integrating a PC into my RV-8 to be? The potential
application is a custom developed GPS/moving map display/flight mgmt system
connected to a 6" panel mounted active matrix screen driven from a P100
cpu/motherboard (no "essential" functions).
Given the assumptions that (1) the board is mounted in an appropriate
manner regarding cooling, (2) that the hard disk wuld be replaced with a
solid state hard disk (fewer power demands, no moving parts to get upset by
aerobatics), (3) that I can develop robust/stable code (it may not be
pretty, but it *will* be robust) and (4) that I understand it may not be
cost effective to do so, what other hidden traps are there?
Will a CPU upset other avionics? What about a stable power supply? Are
there any regulations that affect my ability to do this?
I'll get in first with the "Intel Inside" jokes - maybe I could hide some of
those canopy cracks I've been reading about with one of those little
stickers....
Many thanks to the list in advance
_______________________________________________________
Chris Hinch (RV8 to be - garage being turned into a workshop, buying tools)
Management Information Systems
Dunedin, Dunedin City Council
Internet : chris(at)dcc.govt.nz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob Skinner
A friend is ready to mount his carb (MA4-5) on his 180 hp Lycoming on the
mounting plate for the FAB airbox. The mounting area of the carb is not
flat. In one corner, there is a raised area approx. .063" tall. He intends
to cut some baffle material to use as a gasket to "level out" the
installation. The baffle material is about the thickness needed. Any
suggestions or comments? Thanks.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)navix.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV8 - Pitot tube line |
| From: | tmyrick(at)juno.com (John A Myrick III) |
--> RV-List message posted by: tmyrick(at)juno.com (John A Myrick III)
I am about to drill the 7/16th holes in my ribs to run the pitot line.
On plans #15 it shows to measure back 5/8th inch from the main spar web
and drill the hole in the rib there. This will leave almost no edge
distance at the front of the rib. I want to move the hole back away from
the edge of the rib and center it over the main spar flange. Is there
anything that I am overlooking that will cause problems later? I don't
know this is the same setup on the -6 and -4 or just on the -8. This may
seem like a trivial question but I want to confirm with others before I
drill. Thanks.
Tripp Myrick
RV8 #80085 - Left wing
tmyrick(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
--> RV-List message posted by: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Denis Walsh just flew his RV-6A for the first time and there was an article
about his first flight. In that article, Denis lamented that he did not fly
as fast as he thought that he should. There was a picture of his first
landing. It showed that he did not have the gear leg fairings and wheel pants
on. I offer this to Denis and anyone else who files their plane under
similar circumstances.
Denis,
I just read about your first flight in the Rocky Mtn. RVator.
Congratulations!!! Don't be too concerned about your speed until you get
the wheel pants and gear leg fairings on. They will increase your speed by
about 14 MPH and that will get you closer to the numbers that Van advertises.
Cooling drag is another area that you can fine tune and get a bit more
speed. Drag reduction by making good fairings and making sure that they fit
well are free airspeed. My 6A will do over 200 MPH because I spent a lot of
extra time on fairings. Besides, now that your RV is finished, you will
probably wonder what you are going to do with all the extra time that you
have. Tweaking and fine tuning, that's what. Hang in there, you will be
right up to speed soon enough. I will try to get to the Rocky Mtn. fly-in
and see you there.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | In strument Panel Tilt and Attitude Gyros |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John B. Abell"
At the risk of telling everyone what they already know, I would like to
point out that, according to Drawing 22, the RV-6 and 6A instrument
panel is tilted forward at the top about 4.2 degrees from vertical.
Simple trigonometry applied to the dimensions on Drawing 22 (29 15/16
and 2 3/16) yields this result.
I bother to post this factoid because of recent discussions both on the
rv-list and among my aircraft building friends about eight degrees of
tilt in the instrument panel and attitude gyros with eight degrees of
correction. I ordered an attitude gyro today from R. C. Allen through
Aircraft Spruce with 4.2 degrees of tilt correction, internally lighted,
and with a vacuum failure warning flag. They indicated that it would be
no problem to provide it (for $545.00).
I hope this is useful to someone (and that I haven't made some dumb-a##
mistake).
Jack Abell
RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Computers on board? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Frank van der Hulst
dcc.govt.nz!chris(at)matronics.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Chris Hinch
>
> Without wanting to sound too much like a *complete* nerd, what
> difficulties
> are involved in integrating a PC into my RV-8 to be? The potential
> application is a custom developed GPS/moving map display/flight mgmt
> system
> connected to a 6" panel mounted active matrix screen driven from a
> P100
> cpu/motherboard (no "essential" functions).
Consider subscribing to the Glass-panel list; they discuss this kind of
stuff. But only about 1 message per month. Links to it are on my
'homebuilt' page.
I'm planning much the same for my RV-6. My thoughts are to use a laptop
as the display device (they already have ruggedised HDDs, LCD screens,
etc, and are removeable and therefore useful for preflight planning).
Incidentally, the screen is a major issue. Even active matrix screens
aren't very legible in direct sunlight. Think about using a monochrome
screen.
I'm told there's a Glasair or Lancair (some sort of plastic plane
anyway) which lives at Taupo which has a glass panel. Haven't been to
check it out yet though, and don't know any further information about
the aircraft.
> Given the assumptions that (1) the board is mounted in an appropriate
>
> manner regarding cooling, (2) that the hard disk wuld be replaced with
> a
> solid state hard disk (fewer power demands, no moving parts to get
> upset by
> aerobatics), (3) that I can develop robust/stable code (it may not be
> pretty, but it *will* be robust) and (4) that I understand it may not
> be
> cost effective to do so, what other hidden traps are there?
Where are you going to put the screen in an RV-8? That extra panel space
was one of the reasons I went for a -6.
> Will a CPU upset other avionics? What about a stable power supply?
> Are
> there any regulations that affect my ability to do this?
Probably not. PIC has the right to tell people what electronics they're
allowed to use. You will be PIC, I assume. No problem.
Frank.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
frankv@pec.co.nz http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/
Frank van der Hulst, Software Engineer, Cardax, PEC(NZ) Ltd, Marton
"Knowledge=Power=Energy=Matter=Mass; A good bookshop is just a genteel
Black Hole that knows how to read". Terry Pratchett, "Guards! Guards!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)A.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Master & battery relays on Battery Box? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Barnhart
I need some input from those of you who have mounted your master and
battery relays on the battery box. It appears that this would make it
difficult to remove the battery box and gain access to the battery without
disconnecting cables from the relays.
How did you do it? WHere and how did you run the cable from the battery to
the master relay, and the cable from the starter relay to the starter?
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
installing electrical and avionics
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Computers on board? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dennis Persyk"
----------
> From: Chris Hinch <dcc.govt.nz!chris(at)matronics.com>
> To: 'smtp:rv-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: RV-List: Computers on board?
> Date: Tuesday, June 17, 1997 5:53 PM
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Chris Hinch
>
>
>
> Will a CPU upset other avionics? What about a stable power supply? Are
> there any regulations that affect my ability to do this?
Chris: A Pentium processor is a pretty good jamming device. If you have a
handheld aircraft band transceiver, turn it on and bring it near an
operating CPU. If you can get closer than 10 feet without breaking squelch
you have an extraordinarily-well shielded computer. The RFI from the CPU
is both radiated and conducted from the source, making shielding
challenging.
You might obtain some application notes from Intel on shielding. Low EMI
(Electromagnetic Interference) enclosures for CPUs are commonplace.
Dennis (amateur radio N9DP) 6A fuselage
> Chris Hinch (RV8 to be - garage being turned into a workshop, buying
tools)
> Management Information Systems
> Dunedin, Dunedin City Council
> Internet : chris(at)dcc.govt.nz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Nelson <cgn(at)pond.net> |
| Subject: | spar construction |
--> RV-List message posted by: Craig Nelson
Hi again everyone,
I have looked in the archives on the Harbor Freight tool method of
riviting spars, and came up with very little detail on this modified
hydralic press. If anyone has time, could they give me a synopsis of
this modification, and how it works. Thanks in advance.
cgn(at)pond.net
Craig G. Nelson
Eugene, OR
building RV-6 empenage, nearly completed
wing kit in the shop
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Carb mounting |
--> RV-List message posted by: chester razer
Bob Skinner wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Bob Skinner
>
> A friend is ready to mount his carb (MA4-5) on his 180 hp Lycoming on the
> mounting plate for the FAB airbox. The mounting area of the carb is not
> flat. In one corner, there is a raised area approx. .063" tall. He intends
> to cut some baffle material to use as a gasket to "level out" the
> installation. The baffle material is about the thickness needed. Any
> suggestions or comments? Thanks.
>
> Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)navix.net
Bob, I had the same problem with my new carb from Vans. Although the
area was machined flat some of the casting was not machined and it
caused the air box plate to improperly fit on the machined part of the
carb. I simply polished away the excess casting with my scotch brite
wheel. I also had some misfit around the sump drain casting which also
polished away with the scotchbrite wheel. Finished result was a tight
seal all around the carb finished off with a little Hi Temp RTV for a
positive seal.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: How much Time? |
--> RV-List message posted by: mikel(at)dimensional.com
>> Your mental attitude to the project will be much healthier if you throw
away the calendar.
>
>Truer words were never spoken! Of course at least once a week some bozo
has to come in and say "What's your projected completion date?"
YEP!! My project consumed 6 1/2 years with BUNCHES of other things
happening (moving, marriage, job change, etc.). I adapted a quote from Burt
Rutan: "When is it going to be finished? Um....Thursday."
You just can not anticipate all the little things that take up so much
building time, not the least of which is Staring-At-The-Plans (What/where
the hell is THAT???) The other day I wanted to get the starter cable
further away from the engine mount so I put a clamp on the engine mount and
one around the cable. Easy, right? Yes, except that it was burried WAY down
between the engine mount and the baffling. Took over an HOUR to get the nut
on that inaccessable *&%$# bolt. What am I building here, a Mooney??
ENJOY the build. Want one in 6 months? Buy one already flying.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: In strument Panel Tilt and Attitude Gyros |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Benedict
Jack, Better call R.C. Allen and have a hold put on the gyro! I can't give
you the numbers at this time, but you made the assumption the panel is
perpendicular to the longeron, and it is not. The panel is perp to the top
skin. The top skin and longeron converge. I have either measured or
calculated the angle (can't remember which), and 8 degrees is pretty close
to the correct number. Bill
>--> RV-List message posted by: "John B. Abell"
>
>At the risk of telling everyone what they already know, I would like to
>point out that, according to Drawing 22, the RV-6 and 6A instrument
>panel is tilted forward at the top about 4.2 degrees from vertical.
>Simple trigonometry applied to the dimensions on Drawing 22 (29 15/16
>and 2 3/16) yields this result.
>
>I bother to post this factoid because of recent discussions both on the
>rv-list and among my aircraft building friends about eight degrees of
>tilt in the instrument panel and attitude gyros with eight degrees of
>correction. I ordered an attitude gyro today from R. C. Allen through
>Aircraft Spruce with 4.2 degrees of tilt correction, internally lighted,
>and with a vacuum failure warning flag. They indicated that it would be
>no problem to provide it (for $545.00).
>
>I hope this is useful to someone (and that I haven't made some dumb-a##
>mistake).
>
>Jack Abell
>RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
>
>
>
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richreyn(at)aol.com |
--> RV-List message posted by: Richreyn(at)aol.com
Would anyone like to share their dorm room with me Aug 1, 2, 3 (Fri, Sat,
Sun)? I cant get a reservation yet. I will be on vacation in Toronto and will
drive over to Oshkosh for the weekend if I can get a room. I am leaving for
Toronto by sailboat on Jun 25. Please contact me ASAP by phone or email.
Richard Reynolds 757-627-8743, richreyn(at)aol.com
Norfolk, VA
RV-6A, finished tail & ailerons, drilling skins to wings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Computers on board? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer
Chris Hinch wrote:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Chris Hinch
>
> Without wanting to sound too much like a *complete* nerd, what difficulties
> are involved in integrating a PC into my RV-8 to be? The potential
> application is a custom developed GPS/moving map display/flight mgmt system
> connected to a 6" panel mounted active matrix screen driven from a P100
> cpu/motherboard (no "essential" functions).
>
****snip***
Chris
While helping Matt do some testing for his FuelScan I used my laptop
to capture some of the strings from the GPS inflight. I don't have
a fancy screen it is just a duelscan, and it was extremly hard to
see in the sunlight, I don't think Active Matrix would be much better
maybe a LCD screen would be allright. Even putting it in the shade as
much as possible it was still hard to read.
I think you have a good idea though and if you come up with something
I would sure like to hear about it.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Tom Martin
On my RV-4 I have no problem getting air into the cockpit. My question is
where does the air go? The exiting cabin air may not be going out in the
right place and could be causing drag. Has there been any work on this
topic? On my current project I am at the stage where I could put in some
vents in the right location, if there is one,
Tom Martin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jcolquit(at)law.ua.edu |
--> RV-List message posted by: jcolquit(at)law.ua.edu
Tom Martin asked:
> On my RV-4 I have no problem getting air into the cockpit. My question is
> where does the air go? The exiting cabin air may not be going out in the
> right place and could be causing drag. Has there been any work on this
> topic? On my current project I am at the stage where I could put in some
> vents in the right location, if there is one,
>
Tom, I fly an RV-3A with a ventilation system that *works*. On the
rear "turtledeck" top, just under the canopy and forward of the aft
end of the canopy is a small 4" (or so) round house-type vent. At the
rear of the baggage compartment the removable cover for the aft
bulkhead has two such 4" round disks. At the tail, just below the
horizontal stabilizer, an inspection plate has one 4" round vent in
the inspection plate (thus not affecting the structure of the
airplane). My incoming air is from a ram tube on the upper aft baffle
in the engine compartment. The air comes out a metal "eyeball" air
vent (AS&S p/n 13-03600), with a very good force - adjustable of
course - out the vent on the top of the baggage compartment, through
the baggage compartment and out the vent at the tail of the airplane.
Neat, simple to install, and it works. BTW, Van sells the plastic
version of the eyeball vent I mentioned above. But I prefer aluminum.
The round alumimum disks are extremely light and readily available -
and they fit neatly into an inspection plate so no structure is
affected on the aircraft fuselage.
Joseph A. (Joe) Colquitt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wes Hays <whays(at)tenet.edu> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Wes Hays
unscribe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sharlene Shipley or Bruce Knoll <snsbfk(at)mail.sage.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh & Room |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sharlene Shipley or Bruce Knoll
Hi Rich,
If nothing better shows up, take the housing Number with you and call them
on Thurs & Fri. I have had success doing this at the last minute. I
couldn't get a next to last minute reservation one year, got a motel
reservation in Milwaukee, but before checking into the moter, gave dorm
reservations a call got a room cancelled the motel and drove on to Osh.
Good Luck
Bruce Knoll
Thinking and getting tools RV6A
>--> RV-List message posted by: Richreyn(at)aol.com
>
>Would anyone like to share their dorm room with me Aug 1, 2, 3 (Fri, Sat,
>Sun)? I cant get a reservation yet. I will be on vacation in Toronto and will
>drive over to Oshkosh for the weekend if I can get a room. I am leaving for
>Toronto by sailboat on Jun 25. Please contact me ASAP by phone or email.
>Richard Reynolds 757-627-8743, richreyn(at)aol.com
>Norfolk, VA
>RV-6A, finished tail & ailerons, drilling skins to wings.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Carb mounting |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob Skinner
>Bob, I had the same problem with my new carb from Vans. Although the
>area was machined flat some of the casting was not machined and it
>caused the air box plate to improperly fit on the machined part of the
>carb. I simply polished away the excess casting with my scotch brite
>wheel. I also had some misfit around the sump drain casting which also
>polished away with the scotchbrite wheel. Finished result was a tight
>seal all around the carb finished off with a little Hi Temp RTV for a
>positive seal.
>--
>Chet Razer
>crazer(at)egyptian.net
Chet,
Thanks for the reply. The area that I'm speaking of isn't casting excess.
It's a definate "bump". Way too much to polish down. In fact, there is a
screw in the end of this area and I'd be worried about taking off too much
for fear of machining into a "fuel area". I didn't have this problem on the
4SPA carb on my 150 Lycoming.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)navix.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CYoung9519(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Master & battery relays on Battery Box? |
--> RV-List message posted by: CYoung9519(at)aol.com
I get a "clicking" on the first and sometimes the second attempt to start my
0-320. It sounds like the bendix is not fully engaging. I've checked the
starter, and it's not the problem. What gauge wire is everyone using for
ground and to the starter?
Chuck N777CY
RV6A flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <BSkinner(at)navix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Master & battery relays on Battery Box? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob Skinner
>I need some input from those of you who have mounted your master and
>battery relays on the battery box. It appears that this would make it
>difficult to remove the battery box and gain access to the battery without
>disconnecting cables from the relays.
>
>How did you do it? WHere and how did you run the cable from the battery to
>the master relay, and the cable from the starter relay to the starter?
>Dave Barnhart
Dave,
I mounted both master and starter relays on the backside (interior of a/c)
of the firewall recess (not VAn's, homemade.). The positive wire comes out
of the rear of the box and curves up and forward to the relay. The two
relays are mounted side by side with the terminals verticlely. The wire
from the battery goes to the bottom terminal of the master relay. From the
top terminal of the battery relay there is a short piece of wire that makes
a 180 and the other end goes to the top of the starter relay. From the
bottom terminal of the starter relay I routed the wire to the starter.
To remove the battery, I remove the battery box lid (I used a box out of a
Cherokee 140), remove the - and then + wires and the wires are then above
the battery and out of the way for easy removal.
Bob Skinner RV-6 BSkinner(at)navix.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sharlene Shipley or Bruce Knoll <snsbfk(at)mail.sage.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh & Room |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sharlene Shipley or Bruce Knoll
Hi Rich,
Unless something shows up, call the housing hotline on Thurs or Fri am.
There may well be an opening. One year I couldn't get a late reservation,
so booked a motel in Milwaukee, but before checking in to the motel, I
called and got a dorm room, canceled the motel and drove on over to Osh. I
used to live in Jackson MI and have driven from there to Toronto and to
Osh. If memory serves me well, driving from Toronto to Osh will be quite a
drive.
Good Luck
Bruce Knoll
Buying tools for RV-6A
>--> RV-List message posted by: Richreyn(at)aol.com
>
>Would anyone like to share their dorm room with me Aug 1, 2, 3 (Fri, Sat,
>Sun)? I cant get a reservation yet. I will be on vacation in Toronto and will
>drive over to Oshkosh for the weekend if I can get a room. I am leaving for
>Toronto by sailboat on Jun 25. Please contact me ASAP by phone or email.
>Richard Reynolds 757-627-8743, richreyn(at)aol.com
>Norfolk, VA
>RV-6A, finished tail & ailerons, drilling skins to wings.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com> |
--> RV-List message posted by: Denny Harjehausen
>--> RV-List message posted by: Tom Martin
>
>On my RV-4 I have no problem getting air into the cockpit. My question is
>where does the air go? The exiting cabin air may not be going out in the
>right place and could be causing drag. Has there been any work on this
>topic? On my current project I am at the stage where I could put in some
>vents in the right location, if there is one,
>
>Tom Martin
>
Tom,
I can't say anything on drag on cabin outflow. There is a RV-6 I
have seen with a NACA airflow unit installed in reverse on the bottom of the
fuselage near the tail. If recall correctly it had a door install for
control. It has been a couple of years since I saw it. At the time he
remarked that it greatly improved both heating and cooling, I believe he
remarked that his canopy didn't bulge as much in flight.
If he is on the net maybe he could correct anything I was wrong on.
Has anyone else played with that idea?
Have good day!
Denny
RV-6/ Fuselage (R)N641DH
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Lawson" <lscott(at)erinet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivet gun size |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Scott Lawson"
It is a 4x gun and CP guns are usually strong hitting. Two possible
solutions. If you use an in-line oiler or put oil directly into the gun,
try using some contact cleaner in it. They can gum up over time. If you
bought it used it is possible that someone has taken it apart before. Guns
can be tuned for optimum performance by turning the barrel and it may have
been put back together without consideration for this.
----------
> From: Finn Lassen <ix.netcom.com!finnlass(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Rivet gun size
> Date: Monday, June 16, 1997 1:09 AM
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen
>
> Ok, so I've taken the plunge and opened up the wing skin on my RV-3 to
> perform the CN-2-1 (main spar strengthening).
>
> I'm having a hard time setting the AN470AD6- rivets. My rivet gun is a
> Chicago Pneumatic CP-4444 AERO S CYL. Is that a 4x gun? It was sold as
> a 3/16" capacity but...
>
> Finn (90% complete 90% of the time).
>
> finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Question about washers |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stephen J. Soule"
Does anyone know why the plans call out two large 970-3 washers in the=20
inboard aileron hinge assembly? I only got two of these large washers=20
with my RV-6 kit and used both of them on the left wing. I am now=20
working on the right wing and I am wondering why I can't use smaller=20
diameter washers to bear against the bearings.
If I can use the smaller diameter washers I can avoid having to place=20
a minimum order for =BC pound or 100 of the 970-3's just to get the two=20
I need.
Steve Soule
Huntington Vermont
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: For Sale Tools -Avery Kit |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
--> RV-List message posted by: wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen)
Mike,
Just to let you know that your message got out on the RV-LIST OK....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>--> RV-List message posted by: N45189(at)aol.com
>
>I'm getting transferred to the west coast and have to sell off my RV
tool kit
>from Avery. Anybody interested, please contact me direct at
n45189(at)aol.com.
>Please leave your emaill address and/or your phone number. I'm located
in
>Agawam Mass near Springfield.
>
>Mike Kredar
>N45189(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: In strument Panel Tilt and Attitude Gyros |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
--> RV-List message posted by: wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen)
Jack,
While the angle you have calculated does indeed represent
the 4.2 degrees from vertical, how does this relate to the angle
of the panel while in the cruse configuration. The original Atificial
Horizon that I purchased (from Van's) didn't have any tilt factored
in, and it failed within the first 100 hours of flight. The next one had
the 8 degrees of tilt designed in, and is still operational.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "John B. Abell"
>
>At the risk of telling everyone what they already know, I would like to
>point out that, according to Drawing 22, the RV-6 and 6A instrument
>panel is tilted forward at the top about 4.2 degrees from vertical.
>Simple trigonometry applied to the dimensions on Drawing 22 (29 15/16
>and 2 3/16) yields this result.
>
>I bother to post this factoid because of recent discussions both on the
>rv-list and among my aircraft building friends about eight degrees of
>tilt in the instrument panel and attitude gyros with eight degrees of
>correction. I ordered an attitude gyro today from R. C. Allen through
>
>Aircraft Spruce with 4.2 degrees of tilt correction, internally lighted,
>and with a vacuum failure warning flag. They indicated that it would be
>no problem to provide it (for $545.00).
>
>I hope this is useful to someone (and that I haven't made some dumb-a##
>mistake).
>
>Jack Abell
>RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Plexiglass paint removal |
--> RV-List message posted by: MAlexan533(at)aol.com
I bought my RV-4 already built, and there is a slight dusting of paint on the
entire inside of the canopy. Should I do the Micro-mesh treatment to remove
this? Will anything else cut the paint without damaging the plexi? I know
there are a couple of other plastic restoration systems out there besides
Micro-Mesh. Anybody like these other ones better? The paint used on the
inside of my RV-4 is an acrylic enamel.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Acker <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Computers on board? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Robert Acker
>> are involved in integrating a PC into my RV-8 to be? The potential
>> application is a custom developed GPS/moving map display/flight mgmt system
>> connected to a 6" panel mounted active matrix screen driven from a P100
>> cpu/motherboard (no "essential" functions).
These devices already exist (Silvaire, Avidyne, Archangel, Peavy, etc.).
They have screens optimized for direct sunlight viewing, flight management
software developed & debugged, etc.
If the objective is to have an airplane flying in a reasonable amount of
time, you may want to consider one of these. I imagine rolling your own
"flight PC" would take hundreds, if not thousands, of hours for software
development alone.
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Prop bolt lock-plate/torque wrench |
--> RV-List message posted by: MAlexan533(at)aol.com
Does anyone know where to buy the prop bolt lock plates? Or do you have to go
have one made by a machinist? I'm getting tired of removing my spinner to
check bolt torques. Also, can I use an end wrench extension on a torque
wrench so that I don't have to remove the cowling to check the torque? Would
this still be reasonably accurate? Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Acker <r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question about washers |
--> RV-List message posted by: Robert Acker
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stephen J. Soule"
>
>Does anyone know why the plans call out two large 970-3 washers in the=20
>inboard aileron hinge assembly?...I am wondering why I can't use smaller=20
>diameter washers to bear against the bearings.
>
>If I can use the smaller diameter washers I can avoid having to place=20
>a minimum order for =BC pound or 100 of the 970-3's just to get the two=20
>I need.
Steve,
I think the larger washers are used to cage the joint in case of bearing
failure. Rather important safety item .
Van's sells the washers in single quantities (5 cents ea.).
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Question about washers |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mike Wills
Hi Steve,
I have the same problem, and I will buy from you a couple of those washers,
so you will only have about 90 spares!
I dont know this for fact, but assume the large diameter washers are
specified to capture what remains of the rod end if the bearing were to fail
for some reason. The controls would become sloppy but at least still
functional. Any other opinions on this?
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stephen J. Soule"
>
>Does anyone know why the plans call out two large 970-3 washers in the=20
>inboard aileron hinge assembly? =20
>
>If I can use the smaller diameter washers I can avoid having to place=20
>a minimum order for =BC pound or 100 of the 970-3's just to get the two=20
>I need.
>
>Steve Soule
>Huntington Vermont
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: In strument Panel Tilt and Attitude Gyros |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John B. Abell"
Many thanks to Bill Benedict for pointing out the convergence between
the fuselage top skin and the longeron.
Fred Stucklen asks an interesting question to which I don't know the
answer simply because I don't know the relationship between the
waterline of the aircraft and its position in "cruise." Problem number
one is to define what "cruise" really means. The best I can do as a
builder without that information is to install the gyro corrected for
the angle between the instrument panel and the waterline. (I believe
the waterline parallels the longeron defining the canopy rail.) Even if
I knew the position of the waterline in "cruise," I might not specify
the gyro correction differently.
A remaining question, of course, is whether Fred's first gyro failed
because it was not corrected for tilt; I doubt it. I talked with an
engineer at R. C. Allen this morning who alleges that tilt correction
has the sole purpose of centering the artificial horizon on the
miniature "airplane" in the gyro case and has nothing to do with
reliability. He also claims that he rarely receives a failed vacuum
gyro (22 series, the kind now being sold) but sometimes receives
electric gyros for repair. He says the vacuum gyros he's getting back
now are 21 series gyros made back around 1968 and they're being sent
back for overhaul, not repair, an impressive observation. BTW, he also
said that they can correct for up to 17 degrees of tilt. Apparently,
helicopters often have panels with very substantial tilt.
In summary, I'm taking Bill's advice and correcting yesterday's mistake
with the purchase of a gyro with eight degrees of tilt correction.
Sorry for the misleading information, but I hope someone besides me
benefitted from these postings and Bill's input.
Jack Abell
RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: In strument Panel Tilt and Attitude Gyros |
--> RV-List message posted by: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Hey folks, what are the facts about tilt of panel????
If I put in a standard gyro (I didn't even know there were tilted ones!) and
spend most of my time flying in slow cruise (nose up atttitude) will I be ok??
Will a smaller engine need a less tilt gyro?
What does the angle of the panel relative to the longerons has to do with
anything? Doesn't aircraft attitude affect things here?
I always thought that the "level" in "straight and level" meant that the
altitude remained constant but that the nose would be tilted up or down
depending on control settings and speed.
Maybe when you order an 8 degree gyro they send you the only kind they have and
June 09, 1997 - June 18, 1997
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