RV-Archive.digest.vol-di
September 04, 1997 - September 14, 1997
RV3: RV3 specific
RV4: RV4 specific
RV6: RV6/6A/QB specific
RV8: RV8/8A/QB specific
PNT: Painting
INST: Panel, Instrumentation
ENG: Engine questions
TIPS: Tips, techniques
TOOLS: Tools, where do I buy, what do I need
GEN: General/other
LORE: Flying tales
EVENT: Upcoming events, event debriefs etc.
PLANS: Plan interpretation, where do I drill this hole etc.
LIST: Comments/questions/queries about the list
Chris Hinch
Dunedin, New Zealand. Big-Empty-Space-Waiting-For-RV-8 completed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
| Subject: | Suggestions for posting messages |
>
> I hope you don't mind, I put together a possible starting
point. It's
>probably not a good idea to have too many categories (I think
I've got too
>many here ...), and adherence could be on a best individual
effort basis,
>rather than strictly enforced?
>
>RV3: RV3 specific
>RV4: RV4 specific
>...
Oh good lord. We can't get people to "aggressively edit quoted text"
or unsubscribe properly and you expect people to follow this new
dewey decimal point system? The traffic would be less if we didn't
have people complaining about the traffic all the time. If it *really*
is *too* much work to delete the emails you don't care about,
just unsubscribe and use the database to search for things you
are interested in.
Perhaps we can use your categories for keywords when we start
working on roto-tilling the archive.
Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA N727MF (reserved)
RV-6AQME rudder pedals / brakes and general retaliation
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Hinch <chris(at)dcc.govt.nz> |
| Subject: | Wanted - Feedback |
Having had one suggestion to the list shot down in (albeit mild) flames
already today, I'm just going to go right ahead and make another!!!
How would listers feel about a online register of RV's, where people could
submit details on their RV, - serial, model, engine type, propellor,
instrumentation, time to build, contact details, homepage URL's, stage of
completion, etc. etc. which would then be available for other builders to
search on. This way, you could find other builders who have the same
model/prop/engine/bubba rating as you. It would also be technically
possible to include 3-view colour plates to build up a catalog of various
paint schemes - which could also be of use to those of us who are
"colour-challenged".
People could submit their aircraft details if they want to contribute to the
register, or simply ignore it if they don't.
If it could be done in such a way that it wasn't easy to 'farm' email
addresses from the site (by spammers) would you support and use it? I can
organise some webspace, and develop the thing - but do you all want it?
What does the list think? If everyone thinks this would be a bad idea, I'll
drop it. If not, then I welcome any suggestions/concerns/possible gotchas. I
think it would be a fun project that could give something back to the list.
Chris Hinch
Dunedin, New Zealand
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6A Gear leg mounts |
Jim, I had the tanks removed when drilling up the gear leg mounts on my first
-6A. Once the tanks were initially fitted, I only put in enough screws to
safely store the wings so that removing them was not a chore when I got ready
to do the mounts. The QB I have now will also require me to drill the side
mount holes to final size as they are now 3/16", not 1/4" per plan. I will do
this only after the wings are temorarily bolted in place to prevent and/or
correct any misalignment problems.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/N24LW (res)/Tacoma WA
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Jim Sears
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 1997 11:31 AM
Subject: RV-List: RV-6A Gear leg mounts
Jim Sears
RV-6A #22220
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | fuel line routing |
Randall, I also used a five amp breaker on mine but #18 gauge wire. Worked
350+ hrs for me and still going as far as I know. The wiring example Van's
puts in the electric flap instructions shows using a 10 amp breaker for the
fuel pump (which I think is over-kill) and #18 wire. I've seen the diagram in
the wiring kit that Van's sells, which looked excellent, but I don't recall
what it recommends for this.
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Scott Gesele
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 1997 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: fuel line routing
>Another question (in case I don't get ahold of Facet) -- does anyone
>know how many amps this thing draws? The instructions say to use a
>16ga wire or greater (!!!) but don't specify amperage. Bob Nuckolls
>expressed surprise at this when I asked him, he seemed to think it
>would only draw a couple of amps. I am at a loss as to how big a breaker
>to put on it.
During installation, I put an ammeter on mine. It draws about 1.5A. I used
a 5 amp breaker and ran 22 gauge wire to it. During test runs and taxi
tests the breaker didn't trip.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV (getting close to FAA inspection :))
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Morrissey, John" <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au> |
| Subject: | Wanted - Feedback |
charset="iso-8859-1"
G'day Chris,
Go for it mate! As that line out of that yank movie "Field of dreams"
say's
"Build it and they will come"
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Hinch [SMTP:dcc.govt.nz!chris(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 1997 1:34 AM
To: rv-list
Subject: RV-List: Wanted - Feedback
Having had one suggestion to the list shot down in (albeit mild)
flames
already today, I'm just going to go right ahead and make
another!!!
How would listers feel about a online register of RV's, where
people could
submit details on their RV, - serial, model, engine type,
propellor,
instrumentation, time to build, contact details, homepage URL's,
stage of
completion, etc. etc. which would then be available for other
builders to
search on. This way, you could find other builders who have the
same
model/prop/engine/bubba rating as you. It would also be
technically
possible to include 3-view colour plates to build up a catalog
of various
paint schemes - which could also be of use to those of us who
are
"colour-challenged".
People could submit their aircraft details if they want to
contribute to the
register, or simply ignore it if they don't.
If it could be done in such a way that it wasn't easy to 'farm'
email
addresses from the site (by spammers) would you support and use
it? I can
organise some webspace, and develop the thing - but do you all
want it?
What does the list think? If everyone thinks this would be a bad
idea, I'll
drop it. If not, then I welcome any
suggestions/concerns/possible gotchas. I
think it would be a fun project that could give something back
to the list.
Chris Hinch
Dunedin, New Zealand
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: fuel line routing |
<< Another question (in case I don't get ahold of Facet) -- does anyone
>know how many amps this thing draws? The instructions say to use a
>16ga wire or greater (!!!) but don't specify amperage. Bob Nuckolls
>expressed surprise at this when I asked him, he seemed to think it
>would only draw a couple of amps. I am at a loss as to how big a breaker
>to put on it. >>
Without fuel in it the Facet P/N 40108 draws exactly 1.02A @ 12VDC. My guess
would be that during actual pumping at pressure it might go as high as
1.5-2.0A.
I feed the boost pump from a 5A circuit breaker. This circuit shares a
push-to-test indicator (#330 bulb at 0.08A) that illuminates when the boost
pump is ON and the primer solenoid which draws 0.55A.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314(at)azstarnet.com (tom sargent) |
| Subject: | Re: Tip-up VS. Sliding Canopy |
One difference that no one has mentioned (perhaps because it's no
difference) is emergency exit from the plane. If the plane is mashed up or
flipped over, how do you get out? Does the tip up have any advantages or
disadvantages over the slider in this respect? Is the slider more likely
to jam?
How hard is it to break the canopy if you have something like a
geologist's hammer to hack away at it?
---
Tom Sargent, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave and/or Diane Irwin" <dirwin(at)ibm.net> |
| Subject: | Sensenich / 150hp RV-6A |
I am building an RV-6a with an O320-E2D 150hp engine and plan on using a
Sensenich prop. It seems to be available in 4 pitch increments (75, 76, 77
and 79). Has anyone evaluated a -6A with these props and 150hp and, if so,
can you share your experiences/results? We want to get the most out of the
150hp and I reckon that either the 76 or the 77 inch pitch will be the best
compomise for climb/cruise but I am curious to know how much one loses in
climb/gains in cruise with the 79 inch prop. I also expect that the 75 inch
pitch will reach the 2600 rpm limit quickly and sufer in cruise because of
it.
Dave Irwin
RV-6A 22607 C-GCRV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: fuel cross tube |
> I know two RV-4s that are using a cross tube between their fuel tanks. The
> one pilot never moves his fuel selector and says that the fuel is always
> balanced between tanks. Now I have heard the stories about uneven fuel feed
> and running one tank dry but having the other full, but this system has
> worked for these pilots for years and hundreds of hours. There are also lots
> stories of pilots who forget to change tanks and have problems as well!
> Has any one any opions about this. As well they plumb their return fuel line
> to this cross over tube.
As long as they plumbed each vent line to the atmosphere above the top
surface of the wing past the opposite tank they shouldn't lose fuel
in any manoeuvre except inverted. Alternatively, check valves in
each feed to the common point should permit the standard venting.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 engine arrived!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Irwin" <pcpms(at)leadbelt.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wanted - Feedback |
----------
>
> How would listers feel about a online register of RV's, where people
could
> submit details on their RV, - serial, model, engine type, propellor,
> instrumentation, time to build, contact details, homepage URL's, stage of
> completion, etc. etc. which would then be available for other builders to
> search on.
Chris, this sounds great to me. I've been reading every message for a
couple months now, but I know that once I start building my RV I will want
to be more focused on what I take the time to read. Actually, this sounds
like a much more workable plan than the others.
Still dreaming and planning my -8, and you've got my vote: let's do it!
Michael Irwin
Bonne Terre, MO
RV-8 dreamer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shirley Hobenshield <shobenshield(at)cmsd.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: No RV financing! - to Ken |
>
>To Anyone who Is Interested In This Kind Of Come-On :
>
>Grab your cheeks and spread wide because you are about to get the shaft.
>
>B.Clary
>
>
>Looks like we have already gave someone a hell of a good laugh. Is it
>possible that we should be wearing a sticker on our foreheads saying "
>fool "?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shirley Hobenshield <shobenshield(at)cmsd.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Tip-up VS. Sliding Canopy one more 2 cents |
>
>
>Not bashful about my opinion, so here it is. The tip up is faster, cheaper,
>easier to build, has better visibility and is lighter. I've found agreement
>among all builders on these points. I would personally disagree that the
>slider is harder to build, with the caveat that you read Jim Cone's hints and
>use the Orndorff tape.
>>D Walsh, RV-6A 53 Hrs. Getting ready to paint someday.
>
>Why do you personally disagree with your opinion?
> Sounds like you have a great machine. Must be tough to stop and paint
>when it flys so nicely. I did the same after 29 hrs and it came out well.
>Good luck.
> Ed Hobenshield, RV-6 C-FXXG
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: No RV financing! - to Ken |
Boundary="0__=vBueyPQ75Wt6cWbxC09oJq5QDt9O8q2H8FcW73KxmzBw1qm6KuUMqQI1"
--0__=vBueyPQ75Wt6cWbxC09oJq5QDt9O8q2H8FcW73KxmzBw1qm6KuUMqQI1
In its best light the message about get rich quick should be viewed as a
joke. In normal sunshine it should be viewed for what it is...a
scheme/scam to seperate your money from you. The original message was
obviously a canned "come on" template where "RV-6QB" could be replaced
with summer home, new car, etc.
But if anybody is interested I have a few items for sale:
A 100 mpg carburator for your 350hp V8
Magnets for your water pipes that alter the molecular structure of water
And, a 250hp aircraft engine based on a chevrolet V8 for less money and
weight than a Lycoming
mail.sage.net!snsbfk(at)matronics.com on 09/04/97 03:15:45 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: No RV financing! - to Ken
--0__=vBueyPQ75Wt6cWbxC09oJq5QDt9O8q2H8FcW73KxmzBw1qm6KuUMqQI1--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel cross tube |
Denny,
So the question is, is a pilot more likely to experience an in flight fuel
leak, contamination of one tank but not the other, or a fuel mismanagement
problem?
Seems to me that the idea of joining the tanks has some merit as long as
there is provision to isolate (turn off) a problem tank in case of
emergency. Other opinions?
Mike Wills
RV-4(wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
> Reasons to think about before making two tanks into one big tank is
>a major leak in one tank or separate source in case of a remote possiblity
>of contaminates in one tank.
>
>Have a good one!
>
>Denny,
> RV-6 (R)N641DH
> Fuselage-top side
> Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wanted - Feedback |
Good Idea!
Think how usefull it would be to simultaneously contact 10+ other builders
with the same engine, prop, etc to compare notes.
leadbelt.com!pcpms(at)matronics.com on 09/05/97 07:04:57 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wanted - Feedback
----------
>
> How would listers feel about a online register of RV's, where people
could
> submit details on their RV, - serial, model, engine type, propellor,
> instrumentation, time to build, contact details, homepage URL's, stage of
> completion, etc. etc. which would then be available for other builders to
> search on.
Chris, this sounds great to me. I've been reading every message for a
couple months now, but I know that once I start building my RV I will want
to be more focused on what I take the time to read. Actually, this sounds
like a much more workable plan than the others.
Still dreaming and planning my -8, and you've got my vote: let's do it!
Michael Irwin
Bonne Terre, MO
RV-8 dreamer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
| Subject: | Fuelscan, AvMix, NavAid. |
Now I have flown 75 hours, I can make some comments on equipment.
Firstly the FuelScan - it works very well. The constant readout in gph is
reassuring, and the "Fuel Used" function, and :fuel remaining" turn out to
be very accurate. When I fill up, the amount I take matches exactly the
"fuel used". I mounted the sender between the Fuel Selecter Switech, and
the Auxillary Pump, on a straight stretch of line.
One interesting anomaly, with the auxillary fuel pump on, the gph increases,
where does the extra gas go??
The AvMix is a gadjet which measures the oxygen content of the exhaust gas,
and allows the mixture to be set exactly. The indicator is a light on the
dash. You lean until the light goes on, then enrich the mixture till the
light just goes out. I find I can save one gallon per hour with careful
mixture control, so the AvMix pays for itself.
The Navaid Autopilot - seems expensive, but it replaces the turn and bank as
well as doing the autopilot function. I mounted the servo under the
passenger seat. It works very well, it will hold a course much better than I
can, and even in rough air it gives a rapid response, and unlike me, it
never loses concentration. On the GPS, my track follows the line on the
moving map. Slaving to the GPS works most of the time, I am not sure why not
all the time, but it is not really necessary - just keeping on course is now
simple. As it is only a wing leveller, you still have to monitor altitude. I
have not tried descending through cloud, as I am not IFR rated, but it
should make it much easier.
These extras are much easier to install while building the aircraft, but
they can all be added after completion.
If anyone has any questions I will try to help, though I am usually on the
receiving end of any advice exchange.
John C-GDOC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Wanted - Feedback |
Chris,
Sounds great, but this kind of thing has been proposed before and was
still-born. Sounds like you are setting yourself up for a lot of work, but
its an idea worth persuing if you have the time. If you do it, count me in.
Good luck!!
Mike Wills
RV-4(wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
At 03:34 PM 9/5/97 NZT, you wrote:
>How would listers feel about a online register of RV's, where people could
>submit details on their RV, - serial, model, engine type, propellor,
>instrumentation, time to build, contact details, homepage URL's, stage of
>completion, etc. etc. which would then be available for other builders to
>search on.
>Chris Hinch
>Dunedin, New Zealand
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: No RV financing! - to Ken |
PLEASE DONT!!!
I already get far too much of this crap!
Mike Wills
RV-4(wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
>
>
>WE ARE ALL WAITING FOR THIS FINANCIAL SOLUTION TO ALL OUR PROBLEMS.
> Please send info to the list quickley
>
>Bruce Knoll
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: No RV financing!(chatter) |
Could I please get my 250hp Chev V8 aircraft engine with that 100mpg carb
installed on it? I figure my fuel burn will be about 4 gph at a cruise speed
of 230 mph. You failed to mention TBO on this setup, but I assume it would
be the standard 3000 hours quoted for most auto conversions.
Mike Wills
RV-4(wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>But if anybody is interested I have a few items for sale:
>A 100 mpg carburator for your 350hp V8
>And, a 250hp aircraft engine based on a chevrolet V8 for less money and
>weight than a Lycoming
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich / 150hp RV-6A |
>
> I am building an RV-6a with an O320-E2D 150hp engine and plan on using a
>Sensenich prop. It seems to be available in 4 pitch increments (75, 76, 77
>and 79). Has anyone evaluated a -6A with these props and 150hp and, if so,
>can you share your experiences/results? We want to get the most out of the
>150hp and I reckon that either the 76 or the 77 inch pitch will be the best
>compomise for climb/cruise but I am curious to know how much one loses in
>climb/gains in cruise with the 79 inch prop. I also expect that the 75 inch
>pitch will reach the 2600 rpm limit quickly and sufer in cruise because of
>it.
>
>Dave Irwin
Dave,
I'm using the Sensenich prop on my 150 hp RV-6. I started with the
recommeded 77 pitch and ended up reducing the pitch to just tad under 75.
My idea was to pitch the prop so that at 7,500-8,000 feet, I can operate at
full throttle for best fuel/air distribution (because the carb butterfly is
parallel to the fuel/air mixture) and not exceed the 2,600 rpm redline. The
reduction in pitch did improve takeoff and climb a bit. Why would you
suffer in cruise when running at 2,600 rpms? Doesn't rpms = h.p. and h.p. =
speed? You could improve take off and climb by reducing pitch further but
would have to throttle back quite a bit in cruise.
BTW, I had a wood prop on for a few hundred yours and then went to the
Sensenich. My next six will have a constant speed. I hate like the dickens
to spend the bucks but it's also frustrating to mess around with different
props trying to fine tune performance. With a constant speed, you get
maximum h.p. on take off which means you can climb to a safe altitude in
case the engine quits and can clear obstructions. Besides, I'm getting
tired of watching those show off constant speed guys blast off while I do my
fixed pitched, shallow climb out:)
Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick E. Kelley" <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: No RV financing! - to Ken |
Notes-Brahms2.tivoli.com!Rick_Smith(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> And, a 250hp aircraft engine based on a chevrolet V8 for less money and
> weight than a Lycoming
Ooooo! You must have read the most recent article in Kitplanes ragazine
where Van blasts the prior article about a Chevy-powered RV and the
writer responds.
PatK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNES_ERIC(at)tandem.com |
| Subject: | K1000-6 Nutplate Prep Question |
Van's hasn't answered this, so...
The instructions say to prime these nutplates (they hold the rod end
bearings for the rudder/elevator). They are steel, and the rod end
bearings are aluminun (right?), so I think a barrier is important.
The nutplates appear to have a grey/black coating. A couple RV builders
say this is actually plating, and the priming is unnecessary. I already
put mine in JASCO Prep (acid), at which point the coating flaked off. I
rinsed, then took a scotchbrite pad to them, as I do with all steel
parts, then primered them with a Strontium Chromate Epoxy primer. I
tried to get the thread area also, as this is where the contact with the
rod end bearing is, but I don't know how well I did, or if it will
scrape off.
As these nutplate basically hold on the rudder and elevators, I don't
think I'm being too anal, for me or some other soul 20 years down the
road. So, TO THOSE KNOWLEDGABLE about it, what is this black coating?
Do I need to prime? If so, should it be over this coating?
TIA,
EB #80131 Elevators
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Beckham <76623.1166(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Aeromatic prop info |
Mark:
Thanks for response r.e. Aeromatic propeller. Since my E-mail mssg. we got
the Aeromatic on our rotary-powered RV-4 dialed in. It took much more
phase-angle than any Aeromatic setting we've been able to find for
certified aircraft installations on which Aeromatics were used. Our
preliminary flight-test data shows two-way GPS cruise speed average of 170
knots WOT with the most aggressive leaning (right up to misfire). This
cruise condition produced 5200 cruise rpm with the Aeromatic prop. The -4
with the Aeromatic will outclimb any fixed-pitch propeller we've tested on
the aircraft. No definitive numbers yet.
Bottom line so far is we're very encouraged with the Aeromatic test
results. Next, we hope to have some composite blades built with the proper
twist. In the meanwhile, we are exploring some type of automatic or
cockpit controllable feature possibly with a servo on top of the
synchronizer assemply (hooked to synchronizer piston) to trim blade pitch
range without manually adding counterweights or shims for the synchronizer.
As Kent Paser noted, with the old Aeromatics, t.o. at high altitude
airports resulted in poor performance unless you installed compensating
counterweights. The Aeromatic folks actually had an altitude compensating
option. We have one that is not installed. This was fed by engine oil
from the end of the crankshaft. We need electric or other actuation
(possibly air bellows).
We hope to interest qualified people with adequate manufacturing capacity
in the hopes that we can get a modified modern verion of the propeller
produced at a cost much less than a cs prop. The Aeromatic really
transformed the performance in the rotary RV-4 in terms of achieving
excellent climb and cruise performance using old stock Aeromatic blades.
And there is zero work load for the pilot. Operation from t.o. to cruise
is completely automatic.
We will continue flight tests and learn more but it looks like a very
worthwhile concept.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Spray Gun Advice; Harbor Freight |
Since my posting about using the Harbor Freight HVLP Spray Gun
#05726-5URA@$69.00, I've had numerous inquiries regarding using this gun.
This advice is for those of you who have never painted before. First, I use
no primer on the interior of the airframe, except steel parts. This keeps the
aircraft light, and saves a tremendous amount of time. Most RV's are kept
inside, anyway. On those parts that the plans say to prime, I use Corrosion
Inhibiting Primer #00344 by Spray On, in green color. This is an inexpensive,
fast drying, good coverage quick primer in a spray can, available at your
local body shop supply. Moving to the exterior, I use DuPont DP-48 epoxy
primer with DP-402 hardener. This is white. I believe gray and red and black
are also available. Plan you paint job to use non-metallic colors, these are
much easier. Use 3-M Fine Line tape, not masking tape, for masking off your
different colors. After primer drys, use 600 paper to go over the aircraft
lightly. Wipe down with Prep-sol, tack rag and you are ready to paint! Make
sure you are dust-free, and have good lighting so as to see to avoid runs, as
well as to ensure proper paint coverage. Use the proper reducer for the
temperature, and follow reducing directions. I prefer Dupont Centari Acrylic
Enamel with 793-S Gloss Hardener. Use full pressure at the compressor, with a
adjustable in-line pressure gauge set at 50 psi to start. The HVLP will
reduce this pressure out the nozzle to around 10psi. Do not paint when over
80 degrees. Results will be best in 65-75 degree temps. Assemble the
airplane, fly off your hours, make the necessary changes, and then paint the
whole thing at once. Painting each part separately makes it more difficult to
be consistent, because of varying temps, mixtures, techniques,etc. Use an
in-line water trap at the gun, or shortly before it, within 3-feet. NOTE:
PRACTICE FIRST! Some have even obtained an old smooth side fridge or freezer
to practice on. Use the whole procedure on it, so you will have no surprises.
Start at the top of the rudder and work your way down, to keep overspray off,
doing the wings underneath and fuselage underneath last. Read the
instructions with the gun, they tell you what the two knob adjustments are
for. Play with the air, knobs, until you get a nice flow out on the practice
piece. Try at all costs to avoid runs. If you have some oversray, these can
be color-sanded with wet and dry and compounded or polished off. Wait 2-3
weeks before you do that, tho. Well, guys I hope this will help. Painting is
one of those things that can be really aggravating, or really rewarding, but
the above procedure has worked well for me. HAPPY PAINTING!
Von Alexander N107RV RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel cross tube my $.02 |
I resist the crossfeed in this application for the same reasons that a "BOTH"
detent is a "less than ideal" idea. Imagine that you are (like most normal
pilots) flying a bit wing low. Fuel will run to the low tank, making that
wing heavier. So, it flys a bit lower, which makes the fuel run to it faster.
Are you getting the picture? Soon the a/c will be WAY out if rig. Bad
situation. And if you selector is set to pull from the higher tank, the
thundering silence that will occur when all available fuel is in the other
tank will most certainly get your attention. Who is the ATP who wanted this
thing in the first place?
On the other hand, it does say experimental!
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | eprth(at)kneehill.com (Tim Houle) |
Hi everyone,
I'm going to be ordering the RV6/6A empennage kit real soon. I've been
picking up some tools etc. over the last month. I have a favor to ask though.
I hope this isn't presumptuous but I was wondering if there was anyone in
the Calgary, Alberta area that would be willing to take me for a ride. I've
read about all there is to read about the RV and the only thing missing is
how it actually feels to fly in one. I hope some time to make it down to
Portland, but I want to get started on the kit and would like to take that
all important ride before I start building.
If anyone is interested you can email me off the list at eprth(at)kneehill.com
Tim Houle
***************************
Tim Houle
email: eprth(at)kneehill.com
***************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | changing the subject |
FYI for anyone who wants .020 elevator skins on your -6, note that the
prepunched -8 elevators (even the part numbers) are identical. I am going
this route on my second -6 to gain: increased durability and resistance to
hanger rash, eliminate cracking near the last rivet of the skin stiffeners,
and to make the very critical trailing edge radius stiffer. Would some of
the engineers tell us how much additional stiffness a 25% increase in skin
thickness adds, maybe 50 or 75%,?
For the few who question the weight increase consider that most .016
control surface builders are putting a glob of silicone, ProSeal, or caulk
near the last rivet. I suspect 26 big globs of caulk weigh almost as much
as two .004 elevator skins, plus the caulk is at a longer moment arm from
the hinge requiring even more counterweight mass to offset.
If you want .020 rudder skins you are out of luck using the -8 rudder skin
unless the entire vertical fin and rudder from an -8 are used (hint, hint).
If anyone has recently received a -6QB kit and would not mind fielding
questions, please contact offline @ r.smith(at)tivoli.com or respond to the
list for others to enjoy.
Even if the RVs took twice as long to build they would still be worth it!
-6 Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chris marion <flyrv6(at)cinci.infi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wanted - Feedback |
you have my vote,the more info we can get our hands on the better.
chris marion
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jacquelyn eastburn" <jimnjax(at)worldnet.att.net> |
I just received an e-mail from Jim Tennison ( no financing- debt free )
thanking me for my interest in his plan. I DID NOT return any e-mail to
this man. he has somehow gotten a mailing list and is including all of us
in his bulls--- scam. this is the same crap I throw away in the mail box
and I certainly don't want it here. Mr. Tennison, I really doubt that you
could even recognize an RV-4 from a -6. also to those of you who are so
eager to get more information ( your not part of this scam are you ) e-mail
Mr. Tennison off list because I don't think there will be a category for
crap. thanks. jimnjax(at)worldnet.att.net
Hillsboro Oregon
RV - 8 Ser. No. 80079
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KOZINSKI GARY <kozinski(at)symbol.com> |
Van's number one rule :
"DON"T MESS WITH THE FUEL SYSTEM LAYOUT".
Suggest you look back in the RVator a couple of years ago. Van explained
why his systems are the way they were. It seems that every time someone
screws with the fuel system they have a sad story to tell. Yes, I'm
sure there are some that have made modifications and are still proud of
them. But if talk to Van he won't sanction any change.
Gary RV-6 s/n 20038 final assy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keith Warfield <kwarfield(at)syntellect.com> |
| Subject: | K1000-6 Nutplate Prep Question |
> The instructions say to prime these nutplates (they hold the rod end
> bearings for the rudder/elevator). They are steel, and the rod end
> bearings are aluminun (right?), so I think a barrier is important.
SNIP
Since the nut parts are steel and the coating is black, I'd say
(IMHO) that the coating is "black oxide" which is a form of "rust" not
unlike the oxidation that forms on aluminum, this oxide is a form of
corrosion protection, but not a very good one, as it will turn to common
rust after awhile. IMHO may I suggest de-greasing the nut plate, then
applying your favorite primer. Self-etching, chromate, epoxy, or the
like. No need to remove the black oxide finish. Another possibility may
be to have them plated, but unless you have a bunch to plate at once, it
could be expensive. My Piper used nut plates with just the black oxide
finish and they would develop rust unless they were kept lubricated, I
used LPS #3. This worked well, but added extra labor to each annual
inspection.
Keith Warfield
RV-6A wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie & Tupper England <england(at)vicksburg.com> |
| Subject: | Slobovia Outernational Open House |
Apologies for premature posting of Slobovia Open House/Air Show date.
Due to scheduling conflicts of some of our members, we've moved the date to
October 18, 1997.
In addition to the North American Team (T-6's) and Andy McCain
(Taylorcraft), we will now have Swift Magic (Globe Swifts) and (we hope)
several other major acts.
Please note that this is NOT a public, fee-for-attendance event, but a
private, by-invitation party.
We usually have around 120-140 planes on the field, and in the past have had
balloon rides, helicopter rides, etc.
Any of you within flying or driving distance of central Mississippi who are
interested, just let me know.
Charlie England RV-4 N4375J
england(at)vicksburg.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: fuel cross tube |
> So the question is, is a pilot more likely to experience an in flight fuel
> leak, contamination of one tank but not the other, or a fuel mismanagement
> problem?
Back in April, DJ Molny posted a very detailed breakdown of RV accidents
from NTSB reports. I went back and looked at it, and according to his
breakdown, 3 of the engine failure accidents were caused by improper
fuel line routing (of 10 accidents total caused by fuel system
problems). Whereas 10 accidents were caused by improper fuel management
by the PIC. DJs breakdown doesn't get into the details of what was
improper about the installation, or how many fuel mismanagement problems
were a matter of simply running BOTH tanks dry. But perhaps it helps
answer the question. Food for thought anyhow.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNES_ERIC(at)tandem.com |
| Subject: | Re: Question on K1000-6 Nutplates |
Well, I haven't seen my message from this morning yet, but Van's came
through. Here's Bill's response for the rest of you that may be
wondering.
EB #80131
------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT --------
SENT 09-05-97 FROM SMTPGATE (vans(at)europa.com)
>Hi!
>
>There is a grey/black coating on these nutplates. The instructions say
>to prime these (Rudder/Elevator). I put them in JASCO (Acid solution)
>to clean/etch, as I do with all steel parts, and the coating started to
>flake off revealing the shiney steel underneath. I rinsed/dried, then
>scotchbrited to take off any flash rust and the remaining coating, then
>primed with a chromate epoxy primer.
The nutplates can just be degreased and primed. The coating on the nutplate
is to keep it from rusting, however, in time they will rust so painting
should occur. Many of us just paint them as the exterior is painted and do
not worry about the internal nutplates.
>Now a couple other builders farther along tell me the nutplates are
>actually plated (the black coating), and I shouldn't have done this. Is
>this true? Given the rod end bearings are aluminum, I'm concerned with
>the possibility of dissimilar metal corrosion.
I would not worry about the corrosion. The bearings are also plated to
prevent dissimiliar metal corrosion. Bill
>I doubt I hurt the nutplates with what I did (or did I?), but if I can
>skip this routine in the future, I'd like to! Should I just prime over
>the black? Or can I skip priming altogether, as my friends have. Or
>did they screw up?
>
>Thanks,
>Eric Barnes #80131
>
>PS - had a great time, again, at the Homecoming. How do you guys keep
>coming up with such good weather all the time?
>
>
>
Bill Benedict G.M., or Tom Green, or John Morgan, or Ken Scott or the
office staff @
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Would you use better engine oil? |
Doug, to be scientific, why not have a control using very cheap non
detergent, auto type oil ?
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel H. Morris III" <Morristec(at)icdc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: K1000-6 Nutplate Prep Question |
Eric,
>They are steel, and the rod end
> bearings are aluminun (right?), so I think a barrier is important.
No- the rod end bearings are cadmium plated steel.
> The nutplates appear to have a grey/black coating. A couple RV builders
> say this is actually plating, and the priming is unnecessary.
The black coating is a graphite dry film coating which is baked on. Unless
subjected to mechanical damage it will protect the nutplate from corrosion
for extended periods. It is also designed to lubricate the threads. IMHO
the best thing to do is apply something like molycote grease or anti-seize
on the threads (lightly) at final assembly. Guaranteed that the threads
won't rust on either the nutplate or the rod end. If you are in a
corrosive environment (i.e. within 50 miles of the salt water) apply
Par-Al-Ketone or similar corrosion inhibitor to the rod ends to prevent
corrosion. If you keep the airplane outside you may also want to consider
this.
Dan Morris
Morristec(at)icdc.com
RV-6 canopy almost done. Painting coming up.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuelscan, AvMix, NavAid. |
<< The AvMix is a gadjet which measures the oxygen content of the exhaust gas
>>
Who makes this? Can we add them to the Yeller Pages?
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Paint Removal |
<< LP Aero Plastics puts out a pamphlet on working with your plexi canopy.
There is a world of information in their literature. I had sticky tape
residue on my canopy. I looked for that pamphlet and found that isopropal
alcohol and kerosene were recommended. >>
Naphtha (Coleman Lantern fluid) works the best IMO and doesn't leave any
perceptable film (nearly 100% volatile). Also be careful not to use a
"paper" towel, as most are too abrasive.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: K1000-6 Nutplate Prep Question |
<< The instructions say to prime these nutplates (they hold the rod end
bearings for the rudder/elevator). They are steel, and the rod end
bearings are aluminun (right?), so I think a barrier is important.>>
Eric-
The rod end bearings are cadmium plated alloy steel, certainly not aluminum.
The cadmium is all the barrier you need.
<< The nutplates appear to have a grey/black coating. A couple of RV
builders
say this is actually plating, and the priming is unnecessary. So, TO THOSE
KNOWLEDGABLE about it, what is this black coating? Do I need to prime?
If so, should it be over this coating? >>
This is a molybdenum disulphide dry film lubricant coating (not a plating)
and
should just be left alone. Priming is not necessary and wouldn't stick
anyway.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: fuel cross tube |
<< So the question is, is a pilot more likely to experience an in flight fuel
leak, contamination of one tank but not the other, or a fuel mismanagement
problem?
Seems to me that the idea of joining the tanks has some merit as long as
there is provision to isolate (turn off) a problem tank in case of
emergency. Other opinions? >>
I liked the idea of an independent shutoff valve for each wing tank (2) in my
Kitfox. I left both valves on and invariably one or the other would
preferentially feed (remember this is a gravity flow system with siphon
assist). I would shut off the valve controlling the tank with the lower
level when its needle reached the "no take off" red zone on the float gauge
and know that I had a minimum of 2 gallons left in that tank. I would then
run (on the clock) until the other tank was nearly empty. Then it was time
to switch to the other tank and land for refuelling.
I'm using the four port valve that Van's supplies for my 6A so I will have to
get used to the new drill.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Would you use better engine oil? |
----------
> From: Dr John Cocker <medhumor.com!jcocker(at)matronics.com>
>
> Doug, to be scientific, why not have a control using very cheap non
> detergent, auto type oil ?
> John
>
We would, it is called Aeroshell W100. That is my whole point in why we
need better oil.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich / 150hp RV-6A |
| From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS) |
writes:
(Snip)
> My next six will have a constant speed. I hate like the
>dickens to spend the bucks but it's also frustrating to mess around with
>different props trying to fine tune performance. With a constant speed,
you get
>maximum h.p. on take off which means you can climb to a safe altitude
>in case the engine quits and can clear obstructions. Besides, I'm
>getting tired of watching those show off constant speed guys blast off
while I
>do my fixed pitched, shallow climb out:)
>
>Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
Hi Bob and all,
Why wait for your next airplane to be competetive with the constant speed
guys.
You can be more than competetive with a two blade prop having the weight
of a wood prop and the price of a Sensenich prop. There is a variable
pitch prop available.
I set mine prop for an initial climb of 80 mph IAS at 2850 RPM. The 68"
dia. standard pitch blades let me cruise at full throttle at 9,500' at
2380 RPM.
And my engine is much harder on the prop than a Lyc. O-320 150 hp can be.
That's 2850 RPM and 35 inches of manifold pressure.
I flew to Oshkosh and back this year with a Bellanca at 160 mph true at
2200 RPM and 19.5" MP at 11,500' using 5 gph.
After my flight on Wednsesday at Oshkosh, someone asked me about the
fly-by. It wasn't a fly-by. It was a take-off, climb to 500', and a
full throttle acceleration down most of the runway for a departure. But
it really wasn't a fly-by. :-)
I flew to Portland and back this week with a Cessna 172 at 120 mph true
at 2050 RPM and 17.5" MP at 6,500' using 4 gph.
Jim Ayers
RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Another Fuel Line Reroute.....? |
Opps, sorry the last sentence should read:
With that situation the pump outlet is pointing left and the inlet
is pointing right. This still does not offer as straight a run as a
normal pump inlet/outlet with line traveling along right side.
It must have been a late hour when I wrote that one....!
Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q
On Wed, 3 Sep 1997, Ronald Vandervort wrote:
>
> Why do we never see the fuel line to firewall along the right side?
>
> Seems to me with the engine fuel pump inlet on the right side of pump and
> outlet on the left side of pump it would be more direct to go along
> the right side with boost pump and fuel line, through the
> firewall on the right side, on the way to engine driven pump.
>
> I know the blue prints show the left side, and that probably is the reason
> most lines are run on the left....The side of the "Pied Piper"! Am I
> missing something?
>
> By the way, my neighbor reversed the inlet and outlet on his pump...; just
> rotate the sandwitched plate 180 degrees. With that situation then the
> outlet of the pump is pointing east when the carb inlet is pointing east
> so still not the as straight as running line along right side .
>
> Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q mounting engine
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wanted - Feedback |
| From: | Royson <royson(at)fix.net> |
>>
>> How would listers feel about a online register of RV's, where people
>could
>> submit details on their RV, - serial, model, engine type, propellor,
>> instrumentation, time to build, contact details, homepage URL's, stage of
>
>> completion, etc. etc. which would then be available for other builders to
>
>> search on.
Hi Gang,
I'm a Web designer and future RV8 Builder (ordering my kit in the spring)
I have a server available and the expertise to create a searchable
database of exsisting RV's including photos. If there is genuine
enthusiasm for this sort of thing, I can have a site built in 2-3 weeks.
Please respond via email to me directly royson(at)fix.net with your ideas
for stats etc. For starters I would include powerplant, prop, and
avionics categories, plus time to build, any special mods, builder notes,
performance stats, plus photos of exterior, interior, and powerplant if
desired. If we do this I will be heavily dependant on the builders for
data and feedback on making the site truely usefull.
I read the entire list daily, subscribe to RVAtor, attended both Oshkosh
and the Vans homecoming this year, and am basically as much of an RV
fanatic as possible without actually building one, which I will rectify
as soon as I have adequate work space...
Looking forward to your ideas
Royson Parsons
royson(at)fix.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Lempicke <tlempicke(at)InfoAve.Net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich / 150hp RV-6A |
<19970905.202944.7855.1.Less_Drag(at)juno.com>
JAMES E AYERS wrote:
>
> Why wait for your next airplane to be competetive with the constant
> speed
> guys.
>
But you did not tell us what kind of prop and where we could get one!
We are installing an IO-320 in a Glastar, and the prop is one of the
problems we have yet to solve.
--
Tom Lempicke
Country Squire Airport
Squire Road and Falls Road
Rock Hill, S. C. 29730
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv-list(at)pteron.demon.co.uk (Andy Repton) |
| Subject: | Hi again from the UK |
Hi all,
I have recently rejoined the list, I was a member back in 94 when I
originally started thinking about building an RV. I have since had a
ride in Jim Hranden's RV4 based near San Jose (we flew up the coast to
San Fransisco, what a flight, 200mph at 200ft ASL!) and I'm hooked!=3D20
I am in the UK and hope to tie in with the other UK members and
builders and intend to order an RV4/8 empenage kit ASAP.
I decided to go through the archive, and quickly realised that an
archiving tool would really help in following conversations. So I have
been playing with an archiving tool called MHonArc and have taken one
of the small archive sections from this year and converted it to a
threaded html format to see how it would look. If anyone wants to see
the result then it is available at
http://www.pteron.demon.co.uk/rvlist/index.html=3D20
You need to view it with a 'frames capable browser' which effectively
means either netscape or Internet explorer.
This is a fully automatic conversion and would need tidying up a bit
before being used in anger, but I found that converting the archive
like this made reading it a breeze.
Unfortunately, I don't have the space to provide the whole archive on
my site as I'm limited to 5MB, but if anyone with the space wants to
take it up, I'll be happy to assist.
On a related note (it *is* kit related ;) has anyone built the
RST-447k intercom? I am building one for a friend to go in his RV4 and
have misplaced some of the instructions. Any help in locating a copy
would be most appreciated. I called RST, but the original RST went out
of business and the new one doen't have the details for the 447.
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Romuald <DK_Romuald(at)compuserve.com> |
Please add me to your subscription list. A friend told me to subscribe a=
s
I am considering building an RV. =
Thank you.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <glenn(at)chocolatetruffles.com> |
d F-675 skins.
Should the ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bumflyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electronic Ignition |
In a message dated 9/6/97 6:25:22, you wrote:
>5. It's not that we're dumb, we just don't know.
The essence of good education is to teach the ability to differentiate
between ignorance and stupidity. There are no dumb questions when asked by
the curious uninformed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 70 amp alternator fuse revisited |
I recently received this message from Robert Nuckolls, and I think
other listers should have the information:
On 28 Aug 97 at 21:41, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 21:41:15 -0400
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <RNuckolls(at)compuserve.com>
> Subject: Your order
> To: Tim Lewis
> Tim,
>
> I've had a couple of readers report blowing of the 70-amp
> fuse when thier 60 amp alternator comes on line and works
> hard to recharge a dead battery. Most alternators will
> put out better than rated current when they are cold. I'm
> going to up size my fuse kits to 80 amps. The fuses are on
> order. Your dimmer is built and ready to ship.
I designed my electrical system using Bob's suggestion to use his 70
amp fuse near the alternator, with the alternator output connected to
the battery without going through the buss bar. I had accepted Bob's
contention that "The likelihood of recovering use of the alternator
should this breaker trip is very close to zero. Consider installing
breaker (or fuse) close as possible to the starter contactor"
(Aeroelectric Connection, page Z-2, note 10).
________________________________________________________________________________
that "the likelihood of recovering use of the alternator" is well
above zero in the cases Bob described. It is possible that the
80 amp fuse Bob mentioned will solve the problem, but I've
decided to wait for some empirical evidence of that. I can just
imagine getting stranded somewhere for the lack of a spare
70/80 amp fuse.
I've redesigned my electrical system to use the standard
configuration of running the alternator output to a large breaker in
the cockpit connected to the buss bar. The breaker may pop in
circumstances similar to what Bob described. In that event,
however, I won't have to shut down the plane, get access to the
fuse holder, and hope I have a spare 70 or 80 amp fuse on hand, and
then hope that the spare doesn't blow too. Instead, I'll reduce the
systems load and reset the breaker as needed until the battery is
recharged enough to permit normal operation.
This note is not intended as a flame, and I'm not "anti Bob
Nuckolls." I've purchased Bob's book, his dimmer circuit, his
crowbar overvoltage protector, and the ground buss he recommends. I
submit this email to the list so others can make informed decisions
on their own with all available information.
Tim Lewis
------------------------------------
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or
timrv6a(at)iname.com
------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel cross tube |
| From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
>So the question is, is a pilot more likely to experience an in flight
fuel
>leak, contamination of one tank but not the other, or a fuel
mismanagement
>problem?
> Seems to me that the idea of joining the tanks has some merit as long
as
>there is provision to isolate (turn off) a problem tank in case of
>emergency. Other opinions?
Well Mike, since you asked... You are correct that statistics point to
fuel mismanagement as being more likely. However, it is the only one of
the three that the pilot has sole control over. I'd prefer to take care
of MY job, and engineer for the things that I can't control.
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich / 150hp RV-6A |
>Hi Bob and all,
>
>Why wait for your next airplane to be competetive with the constant speed
>guys.
>You can be more than competetive with a two blade prop having the weight
>of a wood prop and the price of a Sensenich prop. There is a variable
>pitch prop available.
>Jim Ayers
>RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
Jim,
I've always read your posts about the Ivo props that you are testing with
great interest. I'm very much interested in a bullet proof replacement for
the heavy and expensive Hartzell constant speed. I feel the same way about
Ivos, Warp drives, etc. as I do about auto engines in airplanes. (Oh
brother, I hope I don't start that thread up again.) I will feel much more
comfortable with either when I see a flight line full of RVs with either. I
admire anyone who "experiments" with either new props or engines but am not
very adventursome and prefer to go with things on my airplane that are
proven beyond a reasonable doubt. I've had enough close calls in life and
find myself becoming more cautious as I get older.
Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 70 amp alternator fuse revisited |
<< I've redesigned my electrical system to use the standard
configuration of running the alternator output to a large breaker in
the cockpit connected to the buss bar. The breaker may pop in
circumstances similar to what Bob described. In that event,
however, I won't have to shut down the plane, get access to the
fuse holder, and hope I have a spare 70 or 80 amp fuse on hand, and
then hope that the spare doesn't blow too. Instead, I'll reduce the
systems load and reset the breaker as needed until the battery is
recharged enough to permit normal operation. >>
ETA sells an excellent quality very robust Push/pull breaker in a 70 amp
rating. It has 1/4-28 screw terminals and the body (including terminals but
excluding the mounting shank and button) measures 0.70W x 1.25H X 2.40D. It
is P/N 41-3-S14-LN2.
As you probably already know, circuit breakers don't respond as fast as a
typical fuse (more like a slow blow) and can hang in there for a temporary
overcurrent of some percentage above their nominal rating. This makes them
highly desirable IMO for this critical charging circuit. I mounted it to the
center rudder pedal hanging bracket on the 6 to put it in a good routing
position near the master and starter contactors. It is out of the way, yet
still accessible if the low volts lamp illuminates.
I have forgotten who I bought them from, but I can track it down if anyone is
interested. We bought 3 of them at $70 apiece to cover my 6, a Wheeler
Express and a Lancair 360. All of us are running the L60 B&C alternator and
regulator.
In a related issue, I also used a P&B 50A push/pull breaker for the master
bypass and placed it on the pax side vertical side stiffener (subpanel
support) so that it is out of the way yet accessible if things go black one
night due to master contactor failure.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv-list(at)pteron.demon.co.uk (Andy Repton) |
| Subject: | Re: Hi again from the UK |
Apologies all, the correct URL is
http://www.pteron.demon.co.uk/rvlist/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RMI Micro Encoder Help Needed |
| From: | ron.taborek(at)flight642.com (RON TABOREK) |
Re your problem assembling the RMI microencoder.
RMI's email address is rkymtn(at)trib.com. I found them great at dealing
with my construction problems.
ron.taborek(at)flight642.com RV-4 Installing O-320 Toronto
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich / 150hp RV-6A |
Regarding props when I finally get my 4 finished I am sure it will wear a
wood prop. Noticed someone was promoting the IVO. Please do not use an IVO
prop. Very dangerous and the statistics are there from Ultra-lights to
Glasairs that these props are dangerous. One almost came apart on my Kfox and
I did some research. Wish I had done that beforehand. The IVO props have
fantastic performance and are very clever but not all good ideas are a better
idea and these props have numerous and serious defficiancy. Fly a WARP now
and am very happy--very strong. Warp drives new high horsepower props should
do fine on the RV---heavier root sectioton stop blade whip. Constant speed
nice but don't think I can afford one.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Is 210 Degrees Engine Oil Temp To Hot ? |
<< Where can you buy an accurate one at any price? >>
Fluke makes a themocouple attachment for its volt-ohm-meters that is
accurate. I think that some other VOM's have simular attachments. If there
is a local college, their engineering or chemistry departments might help.
Check their catologs.
Other possible sources: chemical, ceramic or engineering supply houses.
Gene cafgef(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry E. Walker" <efford(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Fuselage Longerons |
The fuselage kit for my RV-6 has arrived. O friend who lives nearby and
is in the process of finishing a RV-6 has advised that the curving bend
in the Two "long" longerons as depicted in the plans is inaccurate. He
suggested that the lonngerons be bent to "fit after the bulkheads are
located on the jig. Would appreciate any "feedback" from -6 builders
who have used Van's instructions.
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tip-up VS. Sliding Canopy |
tom sargent writes:
>
> How hard is it to break the canopy if you have something like a
> geologist's hammer to hack away at it?
There was a good thread on this subject about a year or two ago.
Canopy break-out knives are the military solution to this problem.
We were always told (Canadian air force) that they were very effective
on plexiglass canopies, but I don't actually know of anyone who's had
to use one.
In the thread there were several proposals for knife designs.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Mack" <donmack(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Longerons |
charset="us-ascii"
I am putting on the bottom skins of our 6A now. We used the template and
bent them according to the directions. They fit with very little fuss in the
jig.
Don Mack
donmack(at)flash.net
http://www.flash.net/~donmack
>
>The fuselage kit for my RV-6 has arrived. O friend who lives nearby and
>is in the process of finishing a RV-6 has advised that the curving bend
>in the Two "long" longerons as depicted in the plans is inaccurate. He
>suggested that the lonngerons be bent to "fit after the bulkheads are
>located on the jig. Would appreciate any "feedback" from -6 builders
>who have used Van's instructions.
>
>Jerry
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Longerons |
>. He
>suggested that the lonngerons be bent to "fit after the bulkheads are
>located on the jig. Would appreciate any "feedback" from -6 builders
>who have used Van's instructions.
Jerry I believe that would be possible. It seems like that would be
difficult, for me anyway. Maybe your friend has easy way to do it. There
is a couple of places where I used an tapered .032 shim to take up the gaps.
But overall they fit quite good on mine and I bent them per instructions. A
four time builder was over this morning looking it over and commented he had
to use a few shims. That will keep the skin nice and smooth.
Have a good one!
Denny,
RV-6 (R)N641DH
Fuselage-top side
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
| Subject: | Is 210 Degrees Engine Oil Temp To Hot ? |
I've written before about a similar oil temp problem in my 6A. During 70-80
degree days my oil temp goes up to 210-215. Today was a 60 degree day and
I still had readings above 200. To me that's too hot. On an extended climb
they would go even higher. and what would happen trying to fly out of the
Phoenix valley when it's 105?
Vans first suggestion was to check the accuracy of the Isspro gauge by
emersing the sender in a can of boiling water and observing the reading on the
gauge. I did that today. At my 7500' airport, when the water boiled, the
indicator read 200 degrees. Now that's pretty darned close.
So now I know that the oil temp is really high and its not the fault of the
gauge. What to do about it?
My first plan: There are 5 holes outlets cut into the upper engine baffle.
One is a 3" hole connected to a scat tube going to the oil cooler. Next to
that on the side wall of the baffle is a 2" hole for the cabin heater muff.
Also there are two 1" holes for blast tubes to the mags and another 1" hole
for a blast tube for the alternator.
What i'll try next is to seal off the 2" hole for the heater. This should
increase the flow of air into the oil cooler slot by about 50%. If this works
and lowers the oil temps by the 15-20 degrees that i want, then I will just
fly with the cabin heat blocked off in the summer when I don't need it anyway,
and re-open it in the winter, when the colder air will help keep the oil temps
down in the current configuration.
Any comments?
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Adkinson <brian(at)nidlink.com> |
I am looking for sheet metal working tools.
Rivit gun,air rivet squeezer,clecos,dimple dies, c-frame
rivit sets,counter sinks,bucking bars,right angle drill adapter,
drills,deburr tool, chip chaser,most everything I need to start
tail kit. What have you and at what price ?
Thanks, Gary Adkinson E-mail brian(at)nidlink.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
| Subject: | Dave and/or Diane Irwin--Sensenich props |
Dave,
I have a 150 HP RV-4 that I completed last year and I took the
recommendation from Sensenich about a prop. They recommended a
W68T6EM-80 and, although I like the prop, it is not the correct pitch.
The static RPM is 2200, but top speed would be at least 2900 RPM, far in
excess of the red line and fuel consumption is too high. Continue youe
study before you purchase.
John Kitz
RV-4 145 hours in 11 months.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Lempicke <tlempicke(at)InfoAve.Net> |
| Subject: | Re: Is 210 Degrees Engine Oil Temp To Hot ? |
<3411EE44.763F(at)rkymtnhi.com>
rkymtnhi.com!winterland(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> I've written before about a similar oil temp problem in my 6A. During
> 70-80
> degree days my oil temp goes up to 210-215. Today was a 60 degree day
> and
> I still had readings above 200. To me that's too hot. On an extended
> climb
> they would go even higher. and what would happen trying to fly out of
> the
> Phoenix valley when it's 105?
>
Yes Andy -
one of the guys on the Glasstar list had a problem similar to yours.
His name is Jim Londo-- He says he got a lot of help by smoothing the
outlet on the underside of the cowl. One of the things he did was put a
rolled edge (about 2 inch diameter) at the exit of the cowl. Says that
alone got him 10 deg. on the oil temp.
Back about 1972 or so Cessna came out with a New and Improved 172. They
claimed that they got 5 miles an hour extra out of the airplane by
re-designing the baffling in the cowl to improve the airflow.
Do you have a proper set of intercylinder baffles in your engine??
REALLY important!
Have you ever checked the vernatherm in the engine? Not all engines
have them, but if your engine came from an airplane that had an oil
cooler fitted it is a good possibility. BTW these things (Vernatherms -
which just simply regulate the flow of oil to the cooler) do not always
work like you think they do. Spent quite some time trying to figure out
an oil heat problem on a Stinson and the oil flow through the whole
system was wierd, vernatherm was the prob.
Tom Lempicke
Country Squire Airport
Squire Road and Falls Road
Rock Hill, S. C. 29730
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "garrett v. smith" <blueskyman(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | fuel cross tube my $.02 |
Mark:
I have never known an aircraft to transfer fuel from one tank to another so
quickly that it could result in an empty tank.I used to fly floatplanes
and,occasionally, after the aircraft was tied to the dock slightly wing
low overnight, the fuel would move to the low wing. It has been a while
since I've flown an aircraft with a LEFT, BOTH , RIGHT fuel selector,
but I believe that the fuel transfer can be stopped by switching to one tank
overnight, or inflight if you feel that you need to burn off part of a tank
to level a fuel imbalance.
I have blown a tank in a older Bonanza which resulted in a forced landing,
it wasn't possible to switch to the other tank due to a faulty selector.
If we would have tried to switch tanks earlier we, possibly, could have
landed at an airport instead of a gravel road. This scenario brings us
right back to proper fuel management techniques, which were not
employed in the situation I just mentioned.
If I had the option of choosing between the LEFT, BOTH, RIGHT system
and the two selection LEFT , RIGHT system I would probably go with the
former, however I wouldn't change an important system unless Van
gave it the ok.
Mark wrote:
I resist the crossfeed in this application for the same reasons that a "BOTH"
detent is a "less than ideal" idea. Imagine that you are (like most normal
pilots) flying a bit wing low. Fuel will run to the low tank, making that
wing heavier.
Just a thought. Wouldn't a one way check valve prevent fuel transfer from
one tank to another? Does anyone know why Van hasn't designed a system with a
BOTH selection?
Have a good day everyone,
Garrett Smith
Calgary,Alberta
Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <r.acker(at)thegrid.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich / 150hp RV-6A |
Ivo's have a history of "letting go" (cracking near the hub, some blades
departing in flight) when used on the big four cylinder Lycomings,
something about the power pulses being very large on this particular engine
configuration. Sources of this information include the RVator, Ivoprop's
mandated use of crack "telltale" tape at the prop hubs on O-320/360
engines, and posts I recall seeing on the list.
They apparently work well on the smoother horizontal sixes, and inline
engine configurations.
Rob (RV-6Q...engine received yesterday !!!)
----------
> From: Bob Skinner <trib.com!bskinr(at)matronics.com>
> the heavy and expensive Hartzell constant speed. I feel the same way
about
> Ivos, Warp drives, etc. as I do about auto engines in airplanes. (Oh
> brother, I hope I don't start that thread up again.) I will feel much
more
> comfortable with either when I see a flight line full of RVs with either
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is 210 Degrees Engine Oil Temp To Hot ? |
>
>What i'll try next is to seal off the 2" hole for the heater. This should
>increase the flow of air into the oil cooler slot by about 50%. If this works
>and lowers the oil temps by the 15-20 degrees that i want, then I will just
>fly with the cabin heat blocked off in the summer when I don't need it anyway,
>and re-open it in the winter, when the colder air will help keep the oil temps
>down in the current configuration.
This maybe more work than you interested in, but a RV-6A I looked at
the other day had a butterfly in the oil cooler baffle outlet and a
butterfly in the cabin heater outlet. His oil cooler is installed on the
right lower area of the firewall and directed so the airflow is toward exit
at the bottom of the cowl.
Is your oil cooler mounted on the firewall? The owners of the RV-6A
said he installed the butterfly in the oil cooler baffle outlet to control
the oil temp because it was actually running too cool.
Is the oil less effective at higher altitudes, friction reduction
wise? With your airport at 7500 feet, is that a factor for takeoff/climb
cooling?
(those are uninformed question)
Have a good one!
Denny,
RV-6 (R)N641DH
Fuselage-top side
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuelscan, AvMix, NavAid. |
The AxMix is in the Aircraft Spruce Catalog, the designer is an RV flyer,
and I will get his address when I return from a 10 day trip to BC
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is 210 Degrees Engine Oil Temp To Hot ? |
> So now I know that the oil temp is really high and its not the fault of the
>gauge. What to do about it?
>
> My first plan: There are 5 holes outlets cut into the upper engine baffle.
>One is a 3" hole connected to a scat tube going to the oil cooler. Next to
>that on the side wall of the baffle is a 2" hole for the cabin heater muff.
>Also there are two 1" holes for blast tubes to the mags and another 1" hole
>for a blast tube for the alternator.
> What i'll try next is to seal off the 2" hole for the heater. This should
>increase the flow of air into the oil cooler slot by about 50%. If this works
>and lowers the oil temps by the 15-20 degrees that i want, then I will just
>fly with the cabin heat blocked off in the summer when I don't need it anyway,
>and re-open it in the winter, when the colder air will help keep the oil temps
>down in the current configuration.
>Andy
Andy,
There might be a possiblity that you could "cook" your heat muffs?
Normally, with the cabin heat shut off, the air circulating through the
system is dumped overboard through the cabin heat valve. If you just close
off the intake, there is no cooling air going through the system and this
could raise temps on the muffs and on the area of the exhaust pipe where the
muffs are located.
It might be worth experimenting with but my guess is that you won't find
much difference. Let us know.
Is your oil cooler new? I remember reading an article, I think in TBO
Advisor, that featured a company who specialized in cleaning out oil
coolers. The jist of the article was: just flushing solvent through the
cooler doesn't cut the mustard. If you're running a used cooler, you could
have an internal blockage. Another possiblity is that you have an
obstruction in a cooler hose due to improper fabrication.
It seems most RVs have trouble with too much cooling. This is certainly
the case on my 150 hp RV-6. Below 50 degrees F., I have my adjustable oil
door completely closed. My cooler is mounted on the left, front horizontal
baffle.
Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hi again from the UK |
<< So I have
been playing with an archiving tool called MHonArc and have taken one
of the small archive sections from this year and converted it to a
threaded html format to see how it would look. If anyone wants to see
the result then it is available at
http://www.pteron.demon.co.uk/rvlist/index.html=20 >>
Andy,
I looked at your work and it very user friendly to a novice computer user.
Bernie Kerr, RV6A wing skins and tanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich / 150hp RV-6A |
Robert-
I have just ordered an RV6A Quickbuild and am curious-how many housrs have
you got into your project and how many until you are flying? This is the
first message I have posted here-I hope it is appropriate and addressed
correctly.
Regards, Michael Kiess
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Longerons |
Jerry,
Some tips:
1) Clamp a scrap angle whose length bridges the distance from weldment to
the first bend to the weldment; do what ever you need to the weldment (I
had to grind off 3/16 on the inside edge) until the angle just touches the
jig at the inflection (bend) point. That's why the weldments are not
joined at the inner vertex -- you may need to modify them considerably.
Failure to do this will result in trying to make the longeron meet a
weldment that is hanging at the wrong angle --this results in a kink in the
straight section of the longeron. Make the first bend very sharp with
blocks of wood supporting the angle so it can only bend over short distance
-- we are talking about approximately 20 degrees so normal bend radii can
be decreased a bit.
2) Use the arm rest to get the big curve right. This is important for
later canopy fitting considerations. The armrest is a good template for
this section.
3) Get someone with a good eye for angles and fit of things to help you if
you run into difficulty. I got a friend to help me when I couldn't seem to
get the longerons to bend the way I wanted them to.
4) The last several bulkheads are in a straight line. Modify the bulkheads
or shim as required but leave the longerons straight over this run.
Dennis fuselage out of jig today YEA!
----------
> From: Jerry E. Walker <bellatlantic.net!efford(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Fuselage Longerons
> Date: Saturday, September 06, 1997 3:17 PM
>
Would appreciate any "feedback" from -6 builders
> who have used Van's instructions.
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Longerons |
I bent my longerons according to the plans and used the method Orndorff
depicts in his video (both at once). I am pleased with the results and
would do it again the same way on my next 6A.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bumflyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV Fuel System |
In a message dated 9/6/97 14:02:14, you wrote:
>Van's number one rule :
>"DON"T MESS WITH THE FUEL SYSTEM LAYOUT".
Let me register a strong vote supporting your quote. There may well be some
better ways to layout a fuel system for a low wing, wing tank airplane, but
after much research and study, I for one have decided Van's way is yet
another masterpiece of simplicity and function. Every "improvement" I have
heard about is fraught with peril. New builders and listers don't be put off
because the Van system is different than what you once flew. It is safe,
simple, and reliable. I shudder when I read each new way someone has come up
with to give the engine a chance to suck wind instead of gas.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Is 210 Degrees Engine Oil Temp Too Hot ? |
<3411EE44.763F(at)rkymtnhi.com>
| From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
>What i'll try next is to seal off the 2" hole for the heater. This
should
increase the flow of air into the oil cooler slot by about 50%. If this
works
and lowers the oil temps by the 15-20 degrees that i want,<
I don't know Andy, It can't hurt to give that a shot, but most of the air
that goes into the cowl goes past the cylinders and out the bottom. I
doubt that plugging the 2" hole will give you much more flow through the
3" hole.
Are you certain your oil cooler is functioning properly, and that there
is no internal blockage in it, or the oil lines? Are you running #8
hoses? I know some people run #6, that would cut the oil flow quite a
bit.
There has to be something really out of whack, as most people have a
problem with their RV's cooling too WELL. I can fly all day when the
ground temp is near 100 without going over 190. Keep us posted.
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Fuselage Longerons |
Jerry, I too used the plans and that worked okay for me. The suggestion to
use the arm rest as a pattern is also valid. It's easy enough to make a few
adjustments if things don't fit well, but I'd be careful about removing very
much of any weldment without checking with Van's first.
Les Williams/RV-6A
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Jerry E. Walker
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 1997 2:17 PM
Subject: RV-List: Fuselage Longerons
The fuselage kit for my RV-6 has arrived. O friend who lives nearby and
is in the process of finishing a RV-6 has advised that the curving bend
in the Two "long" longerons as depicted in the plans is inaccurate. He
suggested that the lonngerons be bent to "fit after the bulkheads are
located on the jig. Would appreciate any "feedback" from -6 builders
who have used Van's instructions.
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Harbor Freight HVLP Spray Gun |
Air compressor that I use is 3-HP, and 20 gal. tank. Smaller sizes will work,
you have to wait sometimes for it to build back up, which slows you down
some. I just used a standard air-hose from Home Depot $9.95. I think it is
3/8"x 50'.
Von Alexander
N107RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Is 210 Degrees Engine Oil Temp To Hot ? |
>
>I've written before about a similar oil temp problem in my 6A. During 70-80
>degree days my oil temp goes up to 210-215. Today was a 60 degree day and
>I still had readings above 200. To me that's too hot. On an extended climb
>they would go even higher. and what would happen trying to fly out of the
>Phoenix valley when it's 105?
*** big snip ***
>Any comments?
>
>Andy
Andy,
... a local RV6A builder had a persistant high oil temp. problem,
especially during climb. Over time, he changed the oil cooler, put bigger
hoses to the new cooler, changed the Vernatherm valve, sealed the baffling,
calibrated his guage ... all to no avail.
A couple of weeks ago, he solved the problem. He had a bad ground
on the return line from the oil temp. instrument! I believe that the epoxy
primer wasn't fully removed and he didn't use a 'star' washer at the
grounding point.
This is extremely difficult to inspect (no, I wasn't his Technical
Counsellor...:^), so don't forget to make sure you have good grounds as you
do your wiring. Remember, this is one of the few times that you can use
"star-type" locking washers in the airframe. For more details of good
grounding practise, check your copy of AC43.13A.
Good wiring helps long-term reliability.
Since most RVs tend to be over-cooled, check that the temperatures
are _actually_ hot.
... Gil (make those grounds good) Alexander
------------------------------------
RV6A, #20701, finishing kit
"REPLY" sends to entire RV-list
mailto:gila(at)flash.net to reply privately
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: Fuelscan, AvMix, NavAid. |
> One interesting anomaly, with the auxillary fuel pump on, the gph increases,
> where does the extra gas go??
>
> The AvMix is a gadjet which measures the oxygen content of the exhaust gas,
> and allows the mixture to be set exactly. The indicator is a light on the
> dash. You lean until the light goes on, then enrich the mixture till the
> light just goes out. I find I can save one gallon per hour with careful
> mixture control, so the AvMix pays for itself.
Perhaps the extra fuel pressure enriches the mixture. Have you tried
leaning after turning on the aux pump?
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 engine arrived!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PhilipR920(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 70 amp alternator fuse revisited |
<< I have forgotten who I bought them from, but I can track it down if anyone
is
interested. We bought 3 of them at $70 apiece to cover my 6, a Wheeler
Express and a Lancair 360. All of us are running the L60 B&C alternator and
regulator. >>
I'm interested. Please advise. By the way, Who is ETA?
Phil Rogerson, 6AQ 60057
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Is 210 Degrees Engine Oil Temp To Hot ? |
Scott, this thread you started has continued on by Andy Gold, but I haven't
seen anything more from you. Did you get the problem solved?
FWIW, I have a friend with a -4 who had some high oil temps with a newly
overhauled 180 hp. He checked everything and ended up adding a temporary lip
on the bottom of the cowl in an attempt to increase the air flow. Although
this seemed to help immediately, the end reality was that as the engine got
broken in, the oil temp started dropping. He then removed the lip he had
added with the intention of making a permanent molding but found that there
was no noticeable difference in the oil temp with it off. He says his oil
temp stays about 190 degrees on a 70-80 degree day here in the northwest.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/N24LW (res)/Tacoma WA
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Scott Johnson
Sent: Sunday, August 31, 1997 8:13 AM
Subject: RV-List: Is 210 Degrees Engine Oil Temp To Hot ?
I have an RV6A with Vans baffling and a new Lycoming 0-360. This spring
when temperatures were still around 40 degrees F., my oil temp. was running
180 degrees. However, this summer, when it gets 85 degrees out, its
running about 210 degrees. I have re-checked my baffles for leaks, and my
oil cooler is mounted in the same position as a cherokee 180 with a 3" Hose
going to it from the cowl inlet. Is this in the acceptable range ? What
are you guys getting ?
rvgasj(at)mcs.com
Scott Johnson
Chicago
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rscott(at)wnstar.com (Richard Scott) |
| Subject: | Re: Aeromatic prop info |
Steve,
What rotary conversion are you using? Are you happy with it? Was it
complicated to do & what did it cost? How was torsional vibration dealt with?
At our EAA chapter we had a pitch from Powersport & this week we expect to
hear from Atkins about his conversion, who has a different approach &
philosophy.
Dick Scott
Interstate Cadet owner until it sells, then on to an RV-6!
>
>Mark:
>
>Thanks for response r.e. Aeromatic propeller. Since my E-mail mssg. we got
>the Aeromatic on our rotary-powered RV-4 dialed in. It took much more
>phase-angle than any Aeromatic setting we've been able to find for
>certified aircraft installations on which Aeromatics were used. Our
>preliminary flight-test data shows two-way GPS cruise speed average of 170
>knots WOT with the most aggressive leaning (right up to misfire). This
>cruise condition produced 5200 cruise rpm with the Aeromatic prop. The -4
>with the Aeromatic will outclimb any fixed-pitch propeller we've tested on
>the aircraft. No definitive numbers yet.
>
>Bottom line so far is we're very encouraged with the Aeromatic test
>results. Next, we hope to have some composite blades built with the proper
>twist. In the meanwhile, we are exploring some type of automatic or
>cockpit controllable feature possibly with a servo on top of the
>synchronizer assemply (hooked to synchronizer piston) to trim blade pitch
>range without manually adding counterweights or shims for the synchronizer.
> As Kent Paser noted, with the old Aeromatics, t.o. at high altitude
>airports resulted in poor performance unless you installed compensating
>counterweights. The Aeromatic folks actually had an altitude compensating
>option. We have one that is not installed. This was fed by engine oil
>from the end of the crankshaft. We need electric or other actuation
>(possibly air bellows).
>
>We hope to interest qualified people with adequate manufacturing capacity
>in the hopes that we can get a modified modern verion of the propeller
>produced at a cost much less than a cs prop. The Aeromatic really
>transformed the performance in the rotary RV-4 in terms of achieving
>excellent climb and cruise performance using old stock Aeromatic blades.
>And there is zero work load for the pilot. Operation from t.o. to cruise
>is completely automatic.
>
>We will continue flight tests and learn more but it looks like a very
>worthwhile concept.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MoeJoe" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
charset="us-ascii"
Hi, I'm new to this list, and I'd like to ask a few questions. I recently
looked into purchasing my own aircraft. I love aerobatics, and I started by
looking at Super Decathlons. The newer models were all outa my price range,
and the older models all have wood spars, something I'm not willing to bet
my life on. A friend recommended the RV-8, and as soon as I saw the plane I
was in love. My question is, how aerobatic is this plane? I know that this
depends allot on the builder, but is it capable of safely performing snap
maneuvers? How about inverted spins and outside maneuvers? What are the
airframe G tolerances? I checked the web page, and saw no mention of a quick
build RV-8, but my friend claims to have helped build one. Is there a quick
build kit in production? Is there anyone on the list that is located in the
Southern NJ area, who's plane (built or building) I could look at?
Thanks in advance
Looking forward to the time of my life
Moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
<>,
>A friend recommended the RV-8, and as soon as I saw the plane
I
>was in love. My question is, how aerobatic is this plane? I
know that this
>depends allot on the builder, but is it capable of safely
performing snap
>maneuvers? How about inverted spins and outside maneuvers? What
are the
>airframe G tolerances?
The RV-4, RV-6's, and RV-8's airframes are good up to +/- 6 G's
(designed goal is +/-9). If you take the time to put in flop tubes,
injected/inverted oil and fuel systems, you should be able to do all of
the above. I'll let a real aerobatic's nut answer this in more detail.
>I checked the web page, and saw no mention of a quick
>build RV-8, but my friend claims to have helped build one. Is
there a quick
>build kit in production?
There is a quickbuild RV-6 or RV-6A available. This is the side-by-side
seating configuration. The RV-8 kit is the newest and sounds like it
builds even faster than the pre-punched RV-6 kits. The wing spars are
especially nice with *far* fewer parts and far less probability of
errors. I think we'll see the tricycle version of the RV-8 well before
a quickbuild version of the RV-8 is available, but it's all a matter of
time.
Good Luck, the best thing you can do is get a ride in one!
Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA N727MF (reserved)
RV-6AQME fitting rudder pedals / brakes and starting canopy frame
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314(at)azstarnet.com (tom sargent) |
| Subject: | Re: Hi again from the UK |
>
>Hi all,
>
>I decided to go through the archive, and quickly realised that an
>archiving tool would really help in following conversations. So I have
>been playing with an archiving tool called MHonArc and have taken one
>of the small archive sections from this year and converted it to a
>threaded html format to see how it would look. If anyone wants to see
>the result then it is available at
>http://www.pteron.demon.co.uk/rvlist/index.html=20
>
>Andy
>
Andy:
I like it. The only problem is the normal web time delays. If the
whole archive were distributed on CDROM, this would be a good format to do
it in.
Matt, How big are the archives now anyway?
---
Tom Sargent, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Huffaker <huffaker(at)utw.com> |
On Sun, 7 Sep 1997, Mitch Faatz wrote:
> >maneuvers? How about inverted spins and outside maneuvers? What
> are the
> >airframe G tolerances?
>
> The RV-4, RV-6's, and RV-8's airframes are good up to +/- 6 G's
> (designed goal is +/-9). If you take the time to put in flop tubes,
[much snippage]
I believe this is +6 -3 which is the FAA standard for aerobatic
aircraft. Haven't done any myself, but have talked to guys who have flown
just about everything in RV's. There is an article in the "16 years" book
about doing competition acro in a highly modified -4, says they couldn't
get it to spin inverted till they put gap seals on the rudder.
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (huffaker(at)utw.com)
President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
RV-8 80091 Drilling Right Fuel Tank
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Longerons |
Jerry:
You wrote:
>The fuselage kit for my RV-6 has arrived. O friend who lives nearby and
>is in the process of finishing a RV-6 has advised that the curving bend
>in the Two "long" longerons as depicted in the plans is inaccurate. He
>suggested that the lonngerons be bent to "fit after the bulkheads are
>located on the jig. Would appreciate any "feedback" from -6 builders
>who have used Van's instructions.
My lonerons are bend exactly according to the plans. They fit perfectly.
I cannot image bending the longerons to fit the bulkheads. One of the
plans pages (I forget which one) has a wonderful template for this bend.
Cut it out and glue it to some aluminum or wood. It will work just fine.
Best REgards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
cowling
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuelscan, AvMix, NavAid. |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic w Stucklen) |
Listers,
No extra fuel is used. The increased fuel flow indication is due to
the turbulence in the fuel line caused by the surges of the electric fuel
pump. The fuel flow transducer can not distinguish the direction of fuel
movement so the result is an indicated increase in flow........
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Working on second RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <glenn(at)chocolatetruffles.com> |
Hi,
RE: RV-6 TIP-UP, defrost
Hi,
The plans don't give and information regarding installing canopy
defrost. What would be involved in installing canopy defrost into an
RV-6 Tip-up?
Thanks
-Glenn Gordon
--
MZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John McMahon <rv6(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Second Annual RV Fall Fly-In |
RV ENTHUSIASTS............
OCT 4TH&5TH
LEBANON,TN (M54)
We are having another RV Fly that sooooo many came to last year.
What is going on you ask??Well to start ..We are going to try to have
a little more for those who are building as well as
flying.....................
Ray Williams ..His 2 place pitts will be there .He was American Olympic
Acro Inst..
He will be giving Acro forums for homebuilts and
lessons in his Pitts!!!!
John Baugh... Forums on formation Flying..John is EAA Warbird past
pres,and checkout
formation Inst for OSH every year..
Ed Hasch .... D.A.R. for FAA ..He owns a RV 6 unpainted,polished the
one you see every
at OSH and say to youself,this guy is nuts.
He is going to hand out materal,and give a forum on
how to make it easy..
Mike Seager..Vans Rv6 will be there,you know the drill and how it
goes.He is not a part of
the Fly in,I have to say that because of the crazy
EAA insurance policy thing!!
BUT any way he will just happen to be there FOR
THOSE WHO ARE BUILDING
OR WHO OWN RV AIRCRAFT.The person in charge is
DAVID HUDGENS
on the time blocks,first come first serve ..$65.00
Hr ..Six folks a day ...
He may stay on for Monday if in need.. THIS GUY IS
GREAT| From: | "Dan Ebneter" <ebneter(at)inwave.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 Defrost |
> The plans don't give and information regarding installing canopy
> defrost. What would be involved in installing canopy defrost into an
> RV-6 Tip-up?
The easiest I've seen is a pair of 3" electronics cooling fans. Just cut a
couple holes in the glare shield and mount the fans to the underside. You
can get grills to keep foreign objects out. These fans are available in
12VDC from most electronic supply stores. They are brushless, quiet, and
the current draw is minimal. They just pull air from behind the panel which
may help your avionics stay cool as well.
Dan Ebneter
Orfordville, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
Have any of you flying RVers had any trouble with the new style fuel caps
leaking fuel through the center stem? I recently topped the tanks to just
below the bottom of the fuel cap recepticle and put the airplane away in the
hanger. When I came back a few days later, fuel had leaked through the
center, stem area (I think) and went on to run down the wing, staining the
white polyurethane. I was able to get most of the stain off except right
around the cap.
I assume the fuel heated up with the increasing temps but don't understand
why the pressure wasn't relieved through the fuel vent system. This is my
second set of caps as I replaced the originals because they no longer sold
"O" rings for them. I guess this new cap is "new and improved" but the old
ones never leaked while the airplane was parked.
Any ideas on how to fix the cap and to get the rest of the fuel stain off
my wing?
Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Commonality Question |
| From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS) |
Hi All,
1.) Why are the factory planes normally painted white?
2.) Why is there an air inlet plenum over the engine on the factory
planes?
Does one answer apply for both?
Jim Ayers
RV-3 LOM M332A Ivoprop Maroon Marauder
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich / 150hp RV-6A |
| From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS) |
writes:
(Snip)
>
>Jim,
> I've always read your posts about the Ivo props that you are testing
>with great interest. I'm very much interested in a bullet proof
>replacement for the heavy and expensive Hartzell constant speed. I feel
the same way
>about Ivos, Warp drives, etc. as I do about auto engines in airplanes.
(Oh
>brother, I hope I don't start that thread up again.) I will feel much
>more comfortable with either when I see a flight line full of RVs with
>either. I admire anyone who "experiments" with either new props or
engines but
>am not very adventursome and prefer to go with things on my airplane
that are
>proven beyond a reasonable doubt. I've had enough close calls in life
>and find myself becoming more cautious as I get older.
>
>Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
Hi Bob and all,
I don't know about the Ivoprop Magnum prop being bullet proof, but it
does hold up well to Rotex mufflers, Velocity doors, and helmets. The
pusher aircraft have provided numerous examples of this. However, Rotex
mufflers, Velocity doors, and helmets don't hold up well to the Ivoprop
Magnum blades.
The stainless steel tape used on the prop hub detects blade movement
before any vibration is apparent to the pilot. This has been a very
reliable "fail-safe" system that Ivo created for his prop. It even
detects the occasional installation mistake before it becomes a real
problem. (Too bad there isn't something like this for wood props.)
There is a standard variable pitch prop blade which changes from 30 to 90
inches of pitch.
And there is a High Pitch prop blade which changes from 45 to 105 inches
of pitch.
The installation is a bolt-on to the Lycoming engine, in place of a fixed
pitch prop. You just need to add a circuit breaker and switch on the
instrument panel.
Ivo has a fail-safe indicator system built into the prop installation.
The is the two blade model which sells for $1,740.
And a three blade model which sells for $1,960.
Ivoprop is advertised in Sport Aviation and Kitplanes.
Jim Ayers
RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
Made Oshkosh and Van's fly-in this year behind the Ivoprop.
(Not to mention an aerial photo-shoot at Oshkosh.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Is 210 Degrees Engine Oil Temp To Hot ? |
<< Any comments?
Andy
>>
Andy,
Before you go and turn your baffeling into a giant scab patch, make sure
your cooler isnt cloged. Also make sure you have your oil cooler lines going
into the proper ports. I had a freind who had one of his oil lines going to
the wrong port and had the same problem. In other words the cooler was being
bypassed. Most RVs have more trouble getting the oil warm enough!
Good Luck,
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich / 150hp RV-6A |
| From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS) |
writes:
>
>Ivo's have a history of "letting go" (cracking near the hub, some
>blades departing in flight) when used on the big four cylinder
Lycomings,
>something about the power pulses being very large on this particular
>engine configuration. Sources of this information include the RVator,
>Ivoprop's mandated use of crack "telltale" tape at the prop hubs on
O-320/360
>engines, and posts I recall seeing on the list.
>
>They apparently work well on the smoother horizontal sixes, and inline
>engine configurations.
>
>Rob (RV-6Q...engine received yesterday !!!)
Hi Rob and All,
The production Ivoprop Magnum prop does not have any history of "letting
go", even on the Lycoming IO-360 200Hp engine.
The stainless steel tape is a "fail-safe" indicator.
The most outspoken person in the RVator article identified TWO
installation errors he made.
Please remember that someone asked for an inexpensive replacement for the
Hartzell CS prop under the above heading.
If you don't want to know about it, it's up to you.
BTW, I'm still flying the prototype V P hub on my LOM engine. The LOM
engine is HARDER on the prop than a Lyc. O-320. I don't SEE what you are
talking about.
The last time I mentioned the Ivoprop on the list someone wanted to
require 200 hours of testing before the product could be sold. The FAA
only requires 100 Hours. There is 2000 hours on a single Ivoprop Magnum
prop. Somehow I smell "PARADIGM". :-)
Jim Ayers
RV-3 LOM M332A Ivoprop
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4 Firewall cracking |
Ryan, Like your -4, my -4 also has the cracks in the firewall. As you
noted, the firewall is not a structural member, just a firewall as the
name implies. With the landing gear attaching to the airframe through the
engine mount, this area receives a lot of flexing, especially at the lower
corners of the firewall. Your proceedure of stop drilling the holes is the
best. They should be sealed to keep CO (carbon monoxide) from getting in
the cockpit, but I would not worry about reinforcing the firewall itself,
because the firewall is not supporting a load. Bill
>
>Bill B or anyone else who has dealt with this problem,
> Over the last three months I have done condition inspections on three
>different RV4's. On the bottom corner of the firewall where all the angles
>of the triangle intersect I have found several cracks. These cracks are well
>hidden behind the gusset on the lower corners of the engine mount where the
>gear legs attatch. On one airplane we stop drilled the cracks (2 cracks of
>less than 1 inch in length). One of the other is in worse condition. I have
>manufactured a 025 stainles scab patch complete with all the angles. I intend
>to round out the cracks and install the stainless scab patch wet with
>sealant, and attatch with rivets. Hopefully this will dampen some of the
>shock and vibration. Im assuming that this is a high stress area possibly due
>to the three bends that intersect at this point. Unfortunatly the 3rd
>airplane is mine and I can honestly say Ive never had a hard landing in my
>bird so that obviously had no bearing on the cracks.( Ive put every hour on
>it). My question is, is this an acceptable repair? Is this overkill? Ive
>always assumed the firewall on the 4 is more of a fire barrier than a
>strucural member. Has this subject come up before? All of the 3 airplanes
>have less than 500hrs time on the airframe. Im very interested in your
>opinion. Also some of you may want to look at your airplanes in this area(
>with a flashlight and mirror you can see without removing your cowl.
> Ryan Bendure RV4131RB(at)aol.com
>
>
>
>
>
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick E. Kelley" <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Commonality Question |
JAMES E AYERS wrote:
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> 1.) Why are the factory planes normally painted white?
>
> 2.) Why is there an air inlet plenum over the engine on the factory
> planes?
>
> Does one answer apply for both?
>
Surely you are not talking about Van's aircraft - blue RV-6, blue RV-6A,
red RV-6T, yellow RV-8...
Air inlet plenum? Do you mean the baffling? If not, I am sorely
confused. Sorry to be dense.
PatK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | MERFI MidEastRegionalFlyIn |
Listers,
I went to MERFI (both Sat. and Sun.) this weekend. There was a very good
turn out. Sat. seemed to be the day for RV-4's as there were at least seven
or eight in attendance. Pat Carr from W.V. showed up with his Oshkosh award
winning RV-4. He really sets a standard with that plane! (Full IFR with
Century AutoP).
Workmanship is impeccable as is paint and finishing detail. When I got
there on Sunday morning I saw a six out by the taxi way that looked like
the builder had really messed up the allignment on the canopy as it didn't
have the right line because it kind of stood up too high. I walked over to
check it out and when I looked into the cockpit I saw 4 Seats!!!!! what the
he!!? Yup it was the RV-6+ and It was really impressive. Right from the
builders mouth...."Stock wing and empanage kits......14" strech on the
Fuselage.....032 skins on the aft portion of the Fuselage and
non-aerobatic." If you saw it and saw the short ailerons that was because
he started to make a "clipped wing 6" with the kit but changed his mind and
made the 6+. Very nice workmanship and really neat plane. A bunch of rowdy
Canadiens showed up un Sunday in 2 sixes and a four (Raven) and really
looked like they were having a good time.
They were all very nice and I talked to a few of them (Terry) and "the
Raven" owner. They sure made me wish my six was done. They were having a
really good time. Nice planes too! Anyway I had to leave before the awards
ceremony at 3:30 Sun. so I don't know who picked up what. Oh yea....I heard
some guy complaining about all these RV's at fly in's. Said they don't even
look like homebuilts like the Velocities or Long Eze's. Hmmmm I did notice
that the RV owners were the only ones really antsy to get back in the air!
Must be something there ! Sorry for the long post..........Al
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com> |
| Subject: | Oil Pressure Question |
A question for the group:
I am experienceing mild flucuations of Oil Pressure indications at cruise.
The needle bounces back and forth between about 70-80 PSI. Does anyone know
of any particular cause of this phenonenom? Is it a warning of some sort?
The engine runs great otherwise although Oil Temps are a little low (about
150-160 degrees - need to make restrictor plate for oil cooler airflow).
Engine is 150HP, O-320-E2D. Using Isspro instruments and sender from Van's.
Richard E. Bibb
RV-4 N144KT
Oak Hill, VA
rbibb(at)fore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
>
> Have any of you flying RVers had any trouble with the new style fuel caps
>leaking fuel through the center stem? I recently topped the tanks to just
Bob;
I had that problem with mine. I suppose we are talking about the same 'new'
caps. ( the outer o-rings were different, one was black and the other was
brown, can't remember which was what, but they required a change of caps to
accommodate the new outer o-ring). My originals were in the kit put out back
in 88 or so. I ran into the problem when pressure checking my tanks. They
leaked around the stem. I first tried to tighten the nut under the stem,
broke off the stem. About that time Vans came out with caps that were to be
better for auto fuel, I ordered them. They did the same (leaked). I took
the stem out and ground down the outer diameter of a washer ( that the
inside diam. fit closely to the stem) so as to fill the recess more
completely and used this under the flipper tab. It did the trick. They held
air in the leak test and from then on the expansion of fuel came out of the
vents rather than the caps.
Seems as tho the original washer wasn't compressing the o-ring enough to
seal around the stem and the recess in the cap. The washer added spread the
flipper pressure over more surface, to include up tight around the stem.
Had to use a washer because the original threads on the stem did not allow
enough threads to fully compress the o-ring and the original washer was too
'flimsy' to really compress the o-ring.I may have found a 'fatter' o-ring to
put in there also.
I figured that the o-ring was not being compressed enough to seal around the
stem , only the recess in the cap. If it wasn't, then if the aircraft was
exposed to rain, there was a good chance to get water in where the fuel got out.
It worked for me.
Hope you are settled in OK in your new location.
John Darby RV6 sold
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shirley Hobenshield <shobenshield(at)cmsd.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuelscan, AvMix, NavAid. |
>
>,
>and I will get his address when I return from a 10 day trip to BC
>John
>
>What part BC? Would love to meet with you. Have followed your progress
>past years.
Ed C-FXXG RV-6 Based North BC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | klaus.roth(at)med.siemens.de |
Importance: normal
charset = ISO-8859-1;
Type = Text;
x-dmw-oid = 2A864886F70F0301;
x-dmw-btname = "PlainText"
Hello listers,
I am sure there are a few of you who measure the CHT/EGT on all of your
4 cyl. I can measure the CHT/EGT only on #3.
Can some of you tell me is this realy the hottest ??
I have a RV 4 with the baffling kit from Van's.
Best regards
Klaus Roth, Germany
D-ERKR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 Defrost |
>> The plans don't give and information regarding installing canopy
>> defrost. What would be involved in installing canopy defrost into an
>> RV-6 Tip-up?
>
>The easiest I've seen is a pair of 3" electronics cooling fans. Just cut a
>Dan Ebneter
From what I've heard, these cooling fans work very well. The 3" fan might
be a bit big. Radio Shack (and I assume other electronics companies) make
smaller diameter fans. This is what I'll use on RV-6 #2. I went to a lot
more trouble than I should have and made another "cabin air box" to route
heat to either the windshield or cabin. A much heavier and more complicated
installation than it needed to be.
Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Beckham <76623.1166(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aeromatic prop info |
Dick:
In response to your inquiry regarding what rotary conversion we are flying,
it is our own. It is the prototype engine for the production Powersport
200 engines. We developed internal spur gear for propeller reduction gear.
Regarding torsional vibration, we used pendulous dampers on our planetary
reduction gear drives but designed a torsionally stiff internal spur gear
system for the conversion engines.
Steve Beckham
Powersport Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel cross tube |
Several listers have pointed out potential problems with this idea of
joining tanks which has convinced me that the simple system that Van has
designed is the way I will likely go. My admittedly limited flying
experience pretty much alleviates any fuel management problems. In the stuff
I have flown, if the fuel is on your good to go until you run out.
I'm sure that all would agree with your statement about taking care of your
job as PIC. Unfortunately, I would bet that at least some of those pilots
who became part of the fuel management error statistics felt that way also.
People sometimes forget about things they shouldnt.
Perhaps instead of trying to re-engineer Vans fuel system I should come up
with some kind of "time to switch fuel tanks dummy" alarm. Something to
thump me upside the head every so often as a gentle reminder.
Thanks for your comments.
Mike Wills
RV-4(wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>Well Mike, since you asked... You are correct that statistics point to
>fuel mismanagement as being more likely. However, it is the only one of
>the three that the pilot has sole control over. I'd prefer to take care
>of MY job, and engineer for the things that I can't control.
>
>
>
>Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
>ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com> |
I am told #3 is th hottest but #1 is the leanest.
>
>Hello listers,
>I am sure there are a few of you who measure the CHT/EGT on all of your
>4 cyl. I can measure the CHT/EGT only on #3.
>
>Can some of you tell me is this realy the hottest ??
>
>I have a RV 4 with the baffling kit from Van's.
>
>Best regards
>Klaus Roth, Germany
>D-ERKR
>
>
>
>
>
Richard E. Bibb Direct: 301-571-2507
Vice President, Federal Operations Main: 301-564-4404
Fore Systems Federal, Inc. FAX: 301-564-4408
6905 Rockledge Drive, #800 Pager: 800-719-1246
Bethesda, MD 20817 www.fore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Webb <toddwe(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | Suggestions for posting messages |
All I was hoping to do was get a discussion started and let the
forum come to a consensus. This looks great...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Hinch [SMTP:dcc.govt.nz!chris(at)matronics.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 05, 1997 2:34 AM
> To: rv-list
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Suggestions for posting messages
>
>
>
> Great idea, Todd.
>
> I hope you don't mind, I put together a possible starting point. It's
> probably not a good idea to have too many categories (I think I've got
> too
> many here ...), and adherence could be on a best individual effort
> basis,
> rather than strictly enforced?
>
> RV3: RV3 specific
> RV4: RV4 specific
> RV6: RV6/6A/QB specific
> RV8: RV8/8A/QB specific
> PNT: Painting
> INST: Panel, Instrumentation
> ENG: Engine questions
> TIPS: Tips, techniques
> TOOLS: Tools, where do I buy, what do I need
> GEN: General/other
> LORE: Flying tales
> EVENT: Upcoming events, event debriefs etc.
> PLANS: Plan interpretation, where do I drill this hole etc.
> LIST: Comments/questions/queries about the list
>
> Chris Hinch
> Dunedin, New Zealand. Big-Empty-Space-Waiting-For-RV-8 completed
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Acker <r.acker(at)thegrid.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich / 150hp RV-6A |
>Ivo's have a history of "letting go" (cracking near the hub, some
>blades departing in flight) when used on the big four cylinder
Lycomings,
Jim, I apologize for the error above. I should have stated "have a supposed
history" instead of "have a history".
>Please remember that someone asked for an inexpensive replacement for the
>Hartzell CS prop under the above heading.
Inexpensive is relative. In case of a prop coming apart in the air, would
it still be considered inexpensive if it is more likely to tear you and your
airplane up?
>I don't SEE what you are
>talking about.
I don't SEE it either, having never seen such a failure myself on an IVO
Magnum. I researched this prop and what I found raised questions in my
mind, and I was simply pointing fellow listers to these sources. Whether
the sources are factual or not is up to the writers credibility and the
reader's interpretation.
Here's a small, random sampling of what I could find on the 'net (in
addition to the written materials I referenced in my previous message) about
this prop for Lycoming use. Some even claim Ivo does not recommend the prop
for this application. Sure raised questions in my mind.
********************
"I have posted this here before. We tried an IVO on our Glasair FT, with
a 150 HP Lycoming. It was the ground-adjustable pitch model. We
experienced cracking at the root ends of the two blades near the attach
bushings. The cracks were only hairline but we had only 2 hours on the
prop. IVO replaced the blades with what he said was a beef-up design but
the same problem became evident. We returned the hardware and got a full
refund. IVO was always professional to deal with but we had our doubts about
the high horsepower model of his props Harvey M. Spencer"
*****************************
"bfym(at)aol.com (BFYM) wrote:
The small IVOs have a good reputaion. The Magnum less so. It seems to be
fine on engines of lower torsional vibration and, frankly, dangerous on big,
un geared 4 cylinders. At least onehas come apart (O-320 powerd RV4). I
would urge extreme caution in using a Magnum on a Lycoming. Talk to IVO
about it, I'm told he is quite straight forward.
Steve"
*****************************
"Subject: Re: Ivo-Prop In air adjustable
From: Harvey M. Spencer <hspencer(at)igate1.hac.com>
I briefly used the IVO ground adjustable on my Glasair and within
2 hours noticed cracks developing at the bushings at the root of
the blades. Took it back to Ivo, (I live close by) and he gave me
some "new improved" ones. Same problem. Took them back, got my money
back, and chalked that one up to good fortune that I didn't
throw a blade and kill myself!"
*****************************
"So far, it would seem, the Magnum prop. has been OK when used with 6
cylinder engines or when a reduction drive is used. On four cylinder engines
(Lycoming O-320 etc) there have been several catastrophic failures. For
this reason, I would not use one for aerobatics.
I would also suggest that the magnum is not well suited to engines with
high tortional vibration. Having said this, I believe Ivo to be a good and
honest person. Call him yourself and ask about the propellor.
scicom(at)globalcom.net (stephen j beaver)"
****************************
"I spoke with Ivo a while ago and he's amazed that he's selling almost
as many props to airboats as to airplanes. He commented that it isn't
the force that can harm the bushings, it's the large impulses that the
0-360 engines, in particular throw into the crank. If the 0-470 is as
'impulsive' as the 0-360, then I would at least get the monitor tape
to check for blade wiggle that Ivo is now supplying. titan(at)netcom.com (Eric
Cummings)"
*****************************
"We recently had a Velocity (IO-360) fly here from Florida with an Ivo
prop and it had severe cracking near the roots at seven hours TT. Warp
pulled their high power props off the market, so it seems that graphite
props have real problems at higher power levels. dmp(at)bmesun1.MCG.EDU
(David M Parrish)"
*****************************
"Ivo props do come apart on four bangers - I have not heard of a Warp
drive prop that has. Warp has come out with a blade that is wider and is
made for more horsepower.
NSI uses Warp blades but now they have developed one of their own.
They hope to be delivering by fall.
Roger D. Mellema Editor: BD-4 Builders/Owners Newsletter
BD-4 with Ford 3.8 L V-6 2/3 P-51 with 351 Ford V-8"
****************************
"Steve Slaughter wrote:
> Anybody heard of Ivoprop Magnums on O-320 or O-360?
> Sounds good but there is little info.
That is what they were designed for. Most, not all, failures I have heard of
have been due to customer modification of the prop. Most who are using the
Mag, that I have contact with are very happy with it. Look at the cost and
warrenty. Don't discountfactory info just stay skeptical. Also look at the
Warp Drive numbers.
--
Bruce A. Frank, "Ford 3.8L Engine and V-6 STOL
BAFRANK(at)worldnet.att.net Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter""
****************************
"Steve Slaughter wrote:
> Anybody heard of Ivoprop Magnums on O-320 or O-360?
> Sounds good but there is little info.
Steve,
A definite 'no'. Ivo will not sell you one if you tell him it is going
on a '4 banger'. I have a friend who tested several 'increasingly
beefed-up' models on his BD-4. Yep, broke every one of them.
They seem to work fine on belt-reduced auto engines!!
--
Roger D. Mellema Editor: BD-4 Builders/Owners Newsletter
BD-4 with Ford 3.8 L V-6 2/3 P-51 with 351 Ford V-8"
****************************
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q in slowbuild mode :(
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Question on K1000-6 Nutplates |
| From: | "Sam Ray" <str(at)almaden.ibm.com> |
You guys had me a little concerned about using platenuts without
some sort of corrosion proofing, so I did a little research on the
K1000 nutplate by getting a copy of the MILSPEC.
The MILSPEC part number is MS21047L08 for an 8-32 screw, they are
cadmium plated to pass a salt spray test, then coated with a dry film
lubricant which is the black coating we see.
Eric Barnes reported a JASCO acid solution removes the "grey/black
coating", revealing "shiney steel underneath". I have found that
the phosphoric acid etch, which is used before alodining, will remove
cadmium plating. You don't need to etch, paint, or do anything else
to the nutplates- they are fine as is.
Happy riveting,
Sam Ray
RV8 wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John M. Denman" <mikedenman(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure Question |
Richard Bibb wrote:
>
>
> A question for the group:
>
> I am experienceing mild flucuations of Oil Pressure indications at cruise.
> The needle bounces back and forth between about 70-80 PSI. Does anyone know
> of any particular cause of this phenonenom? Is it a warning of some sort?
> The engine runs great otherwise although Oil Temps are a little low (about
> 150-160 degrees - need to make restrictor plate for oil cooler airflow).
>
> Engine is 150HP, O-320-E2D. Using Isspro instruments and sender from Van's.
>
> Richard E. Bibb
> RV-4 N144KT
> Oak Hill, VA
> rbibb(at)fore.com
>
This sounds like the oil pressure relief valve seat. The pressure
relief valve is a spring that pushes on a ball which seats into a
alumium seat. Over time the seat becomes damaged which causes a problem
with symptoms as you describe. Two "fixes" are common in the field.
The first is to take the pressure relief valve apart and "whack" the
ball into the seat using a brass rod (smaller in diameter than the ball)
with a good size hammer. This reforms the seat around the ball. It
sounds crude but apparently works. Another fix is to recut the seat
with a special cutter. This can be done with out taking the engine
apart or off the airplane. You may have to look around to find a engine
shop that has the tool. There is one at the San Carlos airport in San
Carlos, CA. A friend recently had this done and I think they charged
around $100 and it cured his problem.
Mike Denman
RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
<< Can some of you tell me is this realy the hottest ? >>
Klaus,
My hottest is #4 some people's hottest is #3. Try running your engine at a
best lean setting for a half hour sometime. When you land remove your top
cowl and pull the plugs on 3 and 4. You should be able to tell by looking at
the color which one is running leaner.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)mbnet.mb.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic Survey |
Gregory S. Brewsaugh wrote:
>
>
> Listers,
>
> Please respond to me personally, and I'll post the results.
>
> Are you/did you install the "flop tube" in your fuel tanks for
> aerobatics?
> A simple "Yes" or "No" is adequate.
>
> Thanks, Greg
>
> gregbrew(at)gte.net
> -6A HS and VS done Rudder 1/2 Got Wing Kit!
>
Yes.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure Question |
<< I am experienceing mild flucuations of Oil Pressure indications at cruise.
The needle bounces back and forth between about 70-80 PSI. >>
Richard,
Fluctuation occurs sometimes when you dont have enough oil in the
sump.(usually not until you are below 4 qts). You might want to first make
sure your instrument and sender are accurate first by trying another pressure
gage, if problem persits try a different sender. Hopefully it is one of the
above anything after that starts getting expensive. Has this always been this
way or is it something new?
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Lempicke <tlempicke(at)InfoAve.Net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure Question |
Richard Bibb wrote:
>
> A question for the group:
>
> I am experienceing mild flucuations of Oil Pressure indications at
> cruise.
> The needle bounces back and forth between about 70-80 PSI. Does
> anyone know
> of any particular cause of this phenonenom? Is it a warning of some
> sort?
> The engine runs great otherwise although Oil Temps are a little low
> (about
> 150-160 degrees - need to make restrictor plate for oil cooler
> airflow).
>
> Engine is 150HP, O-320-E2D. Using Isspro instruments and sender from
> Van's.
You are reading the fluctuations from the oil pump. The Piper Cherokee
has a special fitting between the engine and the guage. It has a
restricted hole through it to reduce these fluctuations, since they will
destroy the guage unit in short order. Either use one of these, or make
a fitting of your own with brass, brazing rod, and a 1/16 inch drill.
>
>
--
Tom Lempicke
Country Squire Airport
Squire Road and Falls Road
Rock Hill, S. C. 29730
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Aeromatic prop info |
For us unenlightened listers, could someone please explain/describe this
Aeromatic prop, design features, how it works, original application, etc...?
On a somewhat related topic, if anyone knows first hand of a current
generation Ivoprop Magnum failure on an application of comparable
performance/power to an RV please forward that info along with details of
the failure mode. I am not interested in anecdotal info about failures on
ultralights nor am I interested in "he said, she said" rumors. All of the
research I have done on this prop has not led me to anyone who had a failure
which was not caused by improper install or owner modification to the prop.
If we cant identify someone here who has experienced such a failure, I'm
willing to accept Jim Ayers' opinion that this is a viable option for my RV.
After all he is successfully flying one, not simply talking about it.
There's nothing wrong with taking a conservative approach and choosing to
fly a known prop or engine and allowing others to do the experimenting. It
does seem however, somewhat unfair to trash a product based on rumor. Jim
shouldnt have to appear here on the list every couple of months and defend
this product against unsubstantiated rumor.
Thanks,
Mike Wills
RV-4(wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Walsh <walsh(at)adra.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel cross tube |
> Perhaps instead of trying to re-engineer Vans fuel system I should come up
>with some kind of "time to switch fuel tanks dummy" alarm. Something to
>Mike Wills
>RV-4(wings)
I got into the habit of switching tanks every 30 minutes after almost
running a Cherokee tank dry one time. Since you check qty at every
switch, you can also monitor how your tanks are draining and generally keep
your head into your fuel status. I actually consider this an ADVANTAGE
of the standard low-wing setup(IMHO).
Besides, don't you have enough work to do in those wings already ?
John Walsh
RV-4(wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: RV Fuel System |
> >Van's number one rule :
> >"DON"T MESS WITH THE FUEL SYSTEM LAYOUT".
>
> Let me register a strong vote supporting your quote. There may well be some
> better ways to layout a fuel system for a low wing, wing tank airplane, but
OK ok, I know, I KNOW, BUT....
What about just moving the fuel pump upstream, specifically right under
the selector valve? I am thinking of doing this so as to declutter the
foot area. No crossfeeds or fuel injection or anything like that.
Maybe a filter and quick drain at the low point though... Does anyone
see any problem with this? These changes _seem_ minor but I agree that
one should be very careful about changing this critical system.
On a related note -- I called Puralator who now makes the Facet pumps,
and talked to a tech guy about the orientation. He said that the 45
degree mounting angle is to to reduce piston wear which can otherwise
shorten the life of the pump. He said if it is mounted horizontal it
could wear out in as little as 300 hours. When run at an angle (45
degrees and up, or even vertical) the piston will rotate and wear
evenly. Of course since we only run the aux pump at the beginning and
end of the flight we don't put many hours on it. But the thing is
designed to last 5000 hours so this is pretty dramatic.
I also asked about current draw, and he said about 1 amp.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark S. Malone" <mmalane(at)dialus.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel cross tube |
Mike Wills wrote:
>
>
> Several listers have pointed out potential problems with this idea of
> joining tanks which has convinced me that the simple system that Van has
> designed is the way I will likely go. My admittedly limited flying
> experience pretty much alleviates any fuel management problems. In the stuff
> I have flown, if the fuel is on your good to go until you run out.
> I'm sure that all would agree with your statement about taking care of your
> job as PIC. Unfortunately, I would bet that at least some of those pilots
> who became part of the fuel management error statistics felt that way also.
> People sometimes forget about things they shouldnt.
> Perhaps instead of trying to re-engineer Vans fuel system I should come up
> with some kind of "time to switch fuel tanks dummy" alarm. Something to
> thump me upside the head every so often as a gentle reminder.
> Thanks for your comments.
>
> Mike Wills
> RV-4(wings)
> willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
>
> >Well Mike, since you asked... You are correct that statistics point to
> >fuel mismanagement as being more likely. However, it is the only one of
> >the three that the pilot has sole control over. I'd prefer to take care
> >of MY job, and engineer for the things that I can't control.
> >
> >
> >
> >Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
> >ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
>
Electronics International's fuel gauge has a built-in alarm for fuel
imbalance and fuel exhaustion.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich / 150hp RV-6A |
Rob,
I sent an email just a couple of hours ago asking for info on actual
documented failures with names attached and here it is, before my post even
made it to the list. Thanks for the info Rob. I would be interested in
hearing a response directly from Ivo as to whether or not any of these
failures occured on previous editions of the prop. Jim Ayers has stated
repeatedly that there has not been a documented failure for the Magnum prop
that Ivo is currently selling which is what Jim is flying. There seems to be
some discrepancy here and it seems to me that it would be in Ivo's best
interest to address this.
Mike Wills
RV-4(wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>Here's a small, random sampling of what I could find on the 'net (in
>addition to the written materials I referenced in my previous message) about
>this prop for Lycoming use. Some even claim Ivo does not recommend the prop
>for this application. Sure raised questions in my mind.
>
>Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q in slowbuild mode :(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | Need Advice On Landing RV6A When Heavy |
I have finally gotten around to flying my kids enough in the RV6A that I
have been able to take up some of my friends.
Since my kids are fairly light, I have never noticed anything unusual about
landing my 6A, and never had any problem.
I have always used full flaps.
Recently, I took up a person weighing 250 pounds ( and I am 225 ), and
noticed a huge difference on the landing flair of the 6A. The landing flair
becomes significantly tail low to the point where I can barely see over the
nose of the plane. It almost feels as though the tail is going to hit the
ground like the RV6 taildragger in a three point landing. I am doing full
stall landing flairs. ( I have 10 hours in an RV6, 60 hours in an RV6A, 1200
hours total ).
My question is this:
Is it better to touchdown at a speed higher than stall so the tail isn't so
low ( sort of fly it on to the runway at say 65 - 70 MPH )? This doesn't
seem quite right though.
Has anybody noticed this much of a difference when taking a heavier passenger ?
I have also been contemplating putting a constant speed prop on my 180HP,
that would move my CG forward quite a bit I think. I would greatly
appreciate hearing from anybody who has gone from a wood prop to a constant
speed prop, that could give me their ideas on whether the extra $5,000 was
worth it.
Also, when in Chicago crosswinds of 15 to 20 knots, I alway try to touch
down the wing wheel facing the wind first. When I do, unlike say a Cessna
172, it quickly springs me to the opposite wheel. I have landed Cessna
172's, 182's and 206's in crosswinds gusting to 45 mph, and never had this
problem. Is this normal because the gear doesn't flex as much ? Or, is it
just an experience thing ?
All advice is greatly appreciated !!!!!
Scott Johnson
Chicago rvgasj(at)mcs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
I took a turbo bilge blower from Boat US and routed heated air from the
engine muff up through a hole in the canopy glare shield. It works fantastic
and I wouldn't be without it. The blower moves so much air that my hair is
blowing around from the air coming off the canopy ( good for summer cooling
when heat vent closed ). The only downside I don't like is the blower is
noisy, but with my headset on, it isn't a factor.
Scott Johnson
rvgasj(at)mcs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JimNolan(at)mail.kconline.com |
Klaus and Richard,
I run a 150hp E3D in a RV-4 with Van's baffles. I've got 600 hrs
of closely monitored EGT/CHT time on this airplane. ( blew an exhaust
valve at 30 hrs, scared the piss out of me so I started monitoring
all cylinders religiously)
Climb-out full power full rich mixture
EGT CHT
#1 1350 250
#2 1375 250
#3 1400 250
#4 1400 275
Cruise 65% power
#1 1325 200
#2 1350 225
#3 1400 260
#4 1400 250
Cruise 75%power leaned 125 degrees less of peak
#1 1500 240
#2 1500 240
#3 1525 260
#4 1525 250
The reason I have high EGTs is because the probes are 2 inchs
below the exhaust flange. The instructions say to put them 8 inchs
below the exhaust flange. Lycoming valves start stretching at 1650,
so I put mine close to see what was really happening.
I used spark plug CHTprobes for 250 hrs. then changed to the
bayonnet type. ( there wasn't any difference, so save your money and
use the spark plug type, if you can put up with them at spark plug
cleaning time)
All of these degree numbers are not significant. It's the
relationship between the numbers that mean anything. At 75% power you
can see that my cylinders are more uniform in thier respective temps.
At climb-out you can see that #4 will run a higher CHT than any
other cylinder, that's why they told me to monitor that cylinder if I
was only going to run one EGT/CHT. (they were right).
I run at 65% power and 165mph for one reason only. (noise
level). If I had any sense I'd run at 75% power and 178mph and
probly help my engine at the same time.
I still feel that the reason I blew the exhaust valve on #3 at
30 hrs was because I had been running at 75% with the mixture leaned,
then I decided to go full power and forgot about the mixture. I was
hauling ass for about 4 minutes and then backed off the throttle quit
a bit. I believe I sucked cold air up the exhaust pipe on an already
stretched valve.
I hope this has helped you guys
Jim Nolan N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
>I am sure there are a few of you who measure the CHT/EGT on all of your
4 cyl. I can measure the CHT/EGT only on #3.
Can some of you tell me is this realy the hottest ??<
Well, individual engines differ, but mine *usually* runs hottest (CHT &
EGT) on #3, but at 75% power or more, #1 EGT will go a little higher than
#3. Be aware however, that the hottest cylinder is not necessarily the
cylinder that peaks first. On my engine that is *usually* the case, but
not always. Sometimes one of the cooler cylinders will peak before the
hottest cylinder peaks. If you just lean to the hottest cylinder, you
may be running one or more other cylinders too lean.
My understanding is that this is why conventional wisdom states that you
should lean 50-75 degrees rich of peak (even though Lycoming recommends
peak EGT operation - at least for most non-turbo engines when at or below
75%). I think this is due to the fact that until very recently most
aircraft equipped with EGT gauges only monitored one cylinder. If you
keep that cylinder slightly rich, then you chances of over-leaning the
others is fairly small. With all-cylinder monitoring, you can lean to
within 1 degree on the first cylinder to peak, guaranteeing that the
other ones are slightly richer.
Running too rich not only wastes gas, but exacerbates the valve sticking
problem that small Lyc's are famous for.
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
> Have any of you flying RVers had any trouble with the new style fuel
caps
leaking fuel through the center stem? I recently topped the tanks to
just
below the bottom of the fuel cap receptacle and put the airplane away in
the
hanger. When I came back a few days later, fuel had leaked through the
center, stem area (I think) and went on to run down the wing, <
Hi Bob. I had some trouble with the right cap initially, the first time
I filled the right tank completely, it siphoned a fair amount during the
takeoff until about a quart was consumed/vented overboard. It seemed to
come from around the perimeter of the cap, but I can't be positive. Once
I figured out how to tighten it, (you don't tighten the nut, you loosen
it, then adjust the bottom half of the cap, then snug the nut back down)
there have been no other problems. In fact, when the tanks are
completely full and it sits in the sun, fuel will dribble out of the vent
fittings, but never out through the cap.
Did this just start happening? Maybe you have a partial blockage in your
vent tube. Not enough to starve the engine, but perhaps enough to create
some pressure in your tank on a hot day. It seems that if you have
enough gap in the center stem of the cap that you would also siphon fuel
out during flight when the tank is completely full as well. It might be
a simple matter of just tightening the cap a little.
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve McClure <shekinahair(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Any RV Builders in Dayton? |
Hi Everyone,
Just wondering if there is anyone in the Dayton, OH area that's building or
flying any RV's.
Steve and Carey McClure
Damn, wish we flying one. . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
<v01510100b03515ed655a@[169.197.31.177]>
| From: | Shirley Hobenshield <shobenshield(at)cmsd.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Hi again from the UK |
has anyone built the
>RST-447k intercom?
>
>
>Andy
>
>Do you have the Schematic's ?
Ed Hobenshield -- Tech. & etc.
>
>
-+
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sharlene Shipley or Bruce Knoll <snsbfk(at)MAIL.SAGE.NET> |
| Subject: | Suggestions for posting messages |
crosoft.com>
Hello to All:
With all due respect to systems so far presented I think that we already
have a system available that is good. Only problem is getting everybody to
use any system. The one I suggest has only 12 headings. It is the table of
contents for the RVator book. I will not list them here, since I suspect
most folks have it. It can be made more specific with the subheadings
therein. Also, after categories such as wings one can add RV3 or whatever.
Bruce Knoll
Ordering empennage RV6A within 3-4 weeks.
>
>All I was hoping to do was get a discussion started and let the
>forum come to a consensus. This looks great...
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chris Hinch [SMTP:dcc.govt.nz!chris(at)matronics.com]
>> Sent: Friday, September 05, 1997 2:34 AM
>> To: rv-list
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Suggestions for posting messages
>>
>>
>>
>> Great idea, Todd.
>>
>> I hope you don't mind, I put together a possible starting point. It's
>> probably not a good idea to have too many categories (I think I've got
>> too
>> many here ...), and adherence could be on a best individual effort
>> basis,
>> rather than strictly enforced?
>>
>> RV3: RV3 specific
>> RV4: RV4 specific
>> RV6: RV6/6A/QB specific
>> RV8: RV8/8A/QB specific
>> PNT: Painting
>> INST: Panel, Instrumentation
>> ENG: Engine questions
>> TIPS: Tips, techniques
>> TOOLS: Tools, where do I buy, what do I need
>> GEN: General/other
>> LORE: Flying tales
>> EVENT: Upcoming events, event debriefs etc.
>> PLANS: Plan interpretation, where do I drill this hole etc.
>> LIST: Comments/questions/queries about the list
>>
>> Chris Hinch
>> Dunedin, New Zealand. Big-Empty-Space-Waiting-For-RV-8 completed
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic Survey |
>
>Gregory S. Brewsaugh wrote:
>>
>>
>> Listers,
>>
>> Please respond to me personally, and I'll post the results.
>>
>> Are you/did you install the "flop tube" in your fuel tanks for
>> aerobatics?
>> A simple "Yes" or "No" is adequate.
>>
>> Thanks, Greg
>>
>> gregbrew(at)gte.net
>> -6A HS and VS done Rudder 1/2 Got Wing Kit!
>>
Yup,
Hope to make use of by next spring.
Eau Claire, WI
--
Registered ICC User
check out http://www.usefulware.com/icc.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bumflyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV Fuel System |
Randall I believe your proposed arrangement for the fuel pump sounds like
what I observed on Van's RV-6T at a fly in a couple years ago, and I really
like it but couldn't figure out how to route the feed line under or by the
battery so went with the stock arrangement.
Maybe Bill Benedict can confirm what the 6T has. I also vaguely remember
someone saying the air beetle had two pumps which also sounds like an
improvement but at a cost in bucks and complexity.
BTW it is nice to be able to hear the pump running since the engine driven
one frequently produces the same pressure in flight. I can't hear it from
the right seat nearly as well!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lothar Klingmuller <lothark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 Defrost |
>
>I took a turbo bilge blower from Boat US and routed heated air from the
>engine muff up through a hole in the canopy glare shield.
Scott:
Do you have more details about the "Boat US" bilge blower (where to get,
cost, size, weight, amperage)? Also, do you have one or two holes in the
glare shield.? Have you considered a rheostat to cut down noise/air volume
when not needed?
I was going to use two (one on each side) 12v computer cooling fans in
series with a rheostat. The fans are about $6.50 each and weigh about 10 oz
together. They can be obtained at your locale computer parts supplier (or
at Radio Shack, but they cost more than double there).
Thanks in advance
Lothar* Klingmuller | lothark(at)worldnet.att.net | Denver (303) 922-2329 h &
FAX ||6A: continueing w/ fuse'ge when garage is finished|| *(pron'd:
"low-TARR")
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
Fellow RVers,
I dis-assembled my new style fuel cap today and with John's post in mind
did a little head scratching. The new style caps have a plastic tab that
fits between the small, stem "O" ring and the lever that you lock down.
This plastic was deformed because of the camming action of the lever and I
don't believe that it was placing equll pressure all around the small "O"
ring. I dis-assembled one of my old caps and replaced the plastic (new
style) with the metal tab "old style". I lubed the assembly with DC-4
compound, including the large, brown "O" ring and the nylon seats of the
cap. Lastly, I took the small, stem "O" ring off the old cap and put it on
the bottom of the cap with a washer and then the "check nut". If I hadn't
left my can of fuel lube at my old home, I sould have smeared some of that
on the small, stem "O" rings.
Can anyone find anything wrong with the above fix?
Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Commonality Question |
<3413EC51.578A(at)mail.ic.net>
| From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS) |
writes:
>
>JAMES E AYERS wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> 1.) Why are the factory planes normally painted white?
>>
>> 2.) Why is there an air inlet plenum over the engine on the factory
>> planes?
>>
>> Does one answer apply for both?
>>
>
>Surely you are not talking about Van's aircraft - blue RV-6, blue
>RV-6A,
>red RV-6T, yellow RV-8...
>
>Air inlet plenum? Do you mean the baffling? If not, I am sorely
>confused. Sorry to be dense.
>
>PatK
Sorry Pat,
I was trying to not use the term "Spam Can". Piper's and Cessna's are
basically white with a trim color. White is not the best color for
visibility. Why is white used.
With regards to the air inlet plenum, "standard" baffling allows the air
to expand out over all of the top of the engine from the relatively small
air inlet opennings. Why is it done this way?
First clue, it is not to get a "positive pressure" on top of the
cylinders. This "positive pressure" is in reality a needless flow loss,
about a 70% plus flow loss.
However, the two seemingly different questions have the same answer.
Please respond direct. The answer will be offered to the list directly,
at a later time.
Jim Ayers
Less_Drag(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel cross tube |
Mike Wills wrote:
>
>
***aggressively edited***
> People sometimes forget about things they shouldnt.
> Perhaps instead of trying to re-engineer Vans fuel system I should
> come up
> with some kind of "time to switch fuel tanks dummy" alarm. Something
> to
> thump me upside the head every so often as a gentle reminder.
> Thanks for your comments.
>
> Mike Wills
> RV-4(wings)
> willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
Another really good instrument for reminding us to switch tanks
is Matts FuelScan unit. It can be programed to remind you to
switch tanks by telling it how many gallons you want to go
through it and then a neat flashing light system comes on
reminding you to switch tanks. I have mine set to four gallons
which is just a little under 30 min. with my 180hp O-360.
I have used Electronics Internationals fuel scanner and personally
I like Matts better.
PS Please RV-Listers read Matts message at the end of each post
and at least edit it out so it will not appear twice in reply
messages.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ivoprop Postings (was; Sensenich / 150hp RV-6A) |
| From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS) |
writes:
>
>
Hi Rob and all,
I didn't include the Ivoprop postings, which Rob was very kind to
provide. It's unfortune, when trying to relate to a newly develop
product, to find the postings didn't include a posting date.
A Velocity has been successfully running the Ivoprop Magnum electric
flight adjustable prop on a Lycoming IO-360 direct drive 200 Hp. engine
from earlier THIS YEAR.
Prior to this, Ivo had sold a few Magnum props for the O-320 engines.
This earlier (1995) prop design didn't last nearly as well as expected,
and Ivo recalled all of them. However, it did lead to the stainless
steel tape as a "fail safe" detector. Ivo spent 1996 improving the
Magnum blade design until it functioned properly on my LOM engine, and
then until it functioned properly on the Lycoming IO-360 200 Hp with an
eight inch prop extension.
The LOM engine (in-line four cylinder four cycle direct drive) was found
to be harder on a prop than the Lycoming O-320. I have been flying the
Ivoprop Magnum Flight Adjustable prop since Dec. 1995. I was part of Ivo
development, until I wasn't breaking the tape, anymore. I flew the
pre-production blades to Oshkosh this year without any problems. The
blades I have are not as good as the production blades. The production
blades are all the same as what is being run on the Lycoming IO-360 200
Hp. engine.
Having gone through this description, the Ivoprop blades I am using are
safe for a Lycoming O-320. The production blades that are available from
Ivo are better than the blades I have. So, I am suggesting that now
would be a good time to think about bolting a Flight Adjustable Magnum
prop on your Lycoming O-320 powered RV.
If you have a Lycoming O-360 180 Hp (or more) engine with a fixed pitch
prop, you may want to wait until there is more data available. Even
though the O-320 160 Hp Ivoprop RV's will get off the ground quicker, and
will climb faster than the 180 Hp.
BTW, my RV-3 with the Lycoming and a fixed pitch wood prop was an "E"
ticket. What comes after an "E" ticket???
JIm Ayers
LOM M332A Ivoprop N47RV Maroon Marauder.
Less_Drag(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ve7fp(at)jetstream.net (Ken Hoshowski) |
----------
> From: med.siemens.de!klaus.roth(at)matronics.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: CHT/EGT
> Date: Monday, September 08, 1997 7:30 AM
>
>
> Hello listers,
> I am sure there are a few of you who measure the CHT/EGT on all of your
> 4 cyl. I can measure the CHT/EGT only on #3.
>
> Can some of you tell me is this realy the hottest ??
>
> I have a RV 4 with the baffling kit from Van's.
>
> Best regards
> Klaus Roth, Germany
> D-ERKR
>
> Klaus, My #3 runs hottest . I am using Electronics International 4
position gauges. Also used Van's baffle kit.
Ken Hoshowski Editor Western Canada RVator
RV 6 C-FKEH 160 HP C/S
First flight Sept 8/94>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Need Advice On Landing RV6A When Heavy |
Sounds like you may be near the rear C.G. limit if you can't hold the nose
down in a flare with the amount of elevator control authority the RVs have.
With low fuel and the passenger loading you describe, that would be my guess,
but you don't state the amount of control input you are using or what the
stick pressure is. I think that I would perfrom a c.g. calculation before I
flew with that loading condition again.
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Scott
Sent: Monday, September 08, 1997 3:28 PM
Subject: RV-List: Need Advice On Landing RV6A When Heavy
I have finally gotten around to flying my kids enough in the RV6A that I
have been able to take up some of my friends.
Since my kids are fairly light, I have never noticed anything unusual about
landing my 6A, and never had any problem.
I have always used full flaps.
Recently, I took up a person weighing 250 pounds ( and I am 225 ), and
noticed a huge difference on the landing flair of the 6A. The landing flair
becomes significantly tail low to the point where I can barely see over the
nose of the plane. It almost feels as though the tail is going to hit the
ground like the RV6 taildragger in a three point landing. I am doing full
stall landing flairs. ( I have 10 hours in an RV6, 60 hours in an RV6A, 1200
hours total ).
My question is this:
Is it better to touchdown at a speed higher than stall so the tail isn't so
low ( sort of fly it on to the runway at say 65 - 70 MPH )? This doesn't
seem quite right though.
Has anybody noticed this much of a difference when taking a heavier passenger
?
I have also been contemplating putting a constant speed prop on my 180HP,
that would move my CG forward quite a bit I think. I would greatly
appreciate hearing from anybody who has gone from a wood prop to a constant
speed prop, that could give me their ideas on whether the extra $5,000 was
worth it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 Defrost |
One of the back issues of my newsletter had an article about a windshield
defrost system that costs about $30.00 total, including pictures, part
descriptions and where to get them. There was also installation instructions
and details about what to look out for and possible problems. The back
issues of my newsletter are available for $5.00 per year and I have 1995,
1996, and 1997 back issues available. They cover the construction of my RV
from the beginning and include the instructions about how to make canopy
installation an easy one man job, plus hundreds of other articles and tips.
The back issues are now in their sixth reprinting. If you are interested,
send me an E-mail with your address and I will send you the back issues and
they can cross your check in the snail mail.
Jim Cone, Editor
Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing Newsletter
422 Savannah Ridge Drive
St. Charles, MO 63303
(314) 928-8703
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ivoprop Postings (was; Sensenich / 150hp RV-6A) |
JAMES E AYERS wrote:
..............>
> A Velocity has been successfully running the Ivoprop Magnum electric
> flight adjustable prop on a Lycoming IO-360 direct drive 200 Hp. engine
> from earlier THIS YEAR.
>
> Prior to this, Ivo had sold a few Magnum props for the O-320 engines.
> This earlier (1995) prop design didn't last nearly as well as expected,
> and Ivo recalled all of them. However, it did lead to the stainless
> steel tape as a "fail safe" detector. Ivo spent 1996 improving the
> Magnum blade design until it functioned properly on my LOM engine, and
> then until it functioned properly on the Lycoming IO-360 200 Hp with an
> eight inch prop extension.
>
> The LOM engine (in-line four cylinder four cycle direct drive) was found
> to be harder on a prop than the Lycoming O-320. I have been flying the
> Ivoprop Magnum Flight Adjustable prop since Dec. 1995. I was part of Ivo
> development, until I wasn't breaking the tape, anymore. I flew the
> pre-production blades to Oshkosh this year without any problems. The
> blades I have are not as good as the production blades. The production
> blades are all the same as what is being run on the Lycoming IO-360 200
> Hp. engine.
>
> Having gone through this description, the Ivoprop blades I am using are
> safe for a Lycoming O-320. The production blades that are available from
> Ivo are better than the blades I have. So, I am suggesting that now
> would be a good time to think about bolting a Flight Adjustable Magnum
> prop on your Lycoming O-320 powered RV.
>
..........
Jim:
What has Ivo changed in the design from the early models? Why is the
prop solid now when it was so bad before? From your examples it sounds
like there have been definite improvements. Do you know any specifics?
I was always curious as to just how the mounting bolt barrels were
anchored into the base of the prop. That was a problem area in the
past. Must be different now. Do you still have to leave your spinner
off so you can check the safety tape before every flight?
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ivoprop Postings (was; Sensenich / 150hp RV-6A) |
I do not mean to flame Mr. Ayers as I admire anyone who has completed and
flown their owm airplane but there are numerous accounts of failures with all
types of IVO. My KFOX is 582 powered and the prop had serious cracks at every
bushing and a black powder which I mistook for dust from the Brushes. Silver
tape my katoody------ no thanks. One week after I reported my condition to
EAA a Midget Mustang threw a blade on an Ivo Mag. Got a partial list of such
incidents fromm EAA and they cover the Full Spectrum. I have personally
inspected several IVO since that time and have found indications of blade
movement on every single one and a couple were the heavier Magnun. Ivo always
has an excuse ie 582 with 3;1 box causes harmonics ----o-320 has to large a
power pulse ---blades improperly torqued-----prop not lined up with
crankshaft was another I heard------seems to me there is a problem with every
single IVO installation. The facts are there and the things are dangerous. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: fuel cross tube |
<< Perhaps instead of trying to re-engineer Vans fuel system I should come up
with some kind of "time to switch fuel tanks dummy" alarm. Something to
thump me upside the head every so often as a gentle reminder.
Thanks for your comments. >>
Mike,
I came up with an easy way of remembering when to switch tanks and when its
time for fuel. I installed a clock in my RV. When I fill my tanks I set the
clock at 12 straight up. I switch tanks every half hour. If the minuete hand
is on the right hand side of the clock im on the RH tank 12:00 to 12:30. If
the minuete hand is on the left hand side of the clock im on the LH tank
12:30 to 1:00 and so on. When I reach 3oclock I know its time to find fuel.
This sounds a little hoakey but it works well.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: Ivoprop Postings |
A Lancair that flies with a friend of mine in his '6 just lost a blade off his
Ivoprop 3 blader. It
had 5 hours on. The Lancair was a write-off but pilot unhurt. The engine was 150hp
(I think).
My friend was in formation with him when it happened....said it took about 10 seconds
for bits to
start flying out of the cowl. He didn't see the blade go (it was probably supersonic
anyway).
Fortunately the pilot shut down before the engine came off and put it down into
a cornfield.
Ken RV6A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KOZINSKI GARY <kozinski(at)symbol.com> |
On the 0-320-E2D, #3 is the hottest. That is the one closest to the
firewall on the right side.
Gary RV-6 s/n 20038 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel cap leak |
Bob;
Sounds good to me. What you wrote brought back more of the details to me.
Excuse an old mans' memory, contrary to popular belief, it is the FIRST
thing to go! Some things to consider:
That metal washer from the old cap, wasn't it pretty thin and a sort of
springy stainless steel? I think that is why I didn't use it, too flexible
like the plastic washer. Ground down the outer diameter of an AN normal
thickness washer that fit the bolt but had been too large in outer diam. to
fit in the recess on the top of the cap. The thickness of the AN washer , in
my opinion, was thick enough to transfer the pressure all around the o-ring,
rather than bend like the original. The ring under the cap on the through
bolt- isn't the new bolt more thread and less shank than the old one? The
bottom o-ring you mention just may be rubbing on threaded area rather than
smooth shank. Plus, it seemed to me that the bolt being slightly shorter
(maybe because the thicker washer?), that there was not any threads showing
with the self locking nut on it.
> Can anyone find anything wrong with the above fix?
To me, there is nothing wrong with what you have done. But you may want to
check what I think I remember about it.
Unfortunately, you are now finding out what you left at the old place. How
well I remember that problem from the Old days in the AF moves.
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure Question |
>I am experienceing mild flucuations of Oil Pressure indications at cruise.
>The needle bounces back and forth between about 70-80 PSI. Does anyone know
Richard;
You aren't solo on that oil pressure fluctuation. I had the same, E2D,
stuff from Vans, irregular fluctuation, some times at first of flight,
sometimes at middle and others at end. Fluct. was about 1 sec. duration,
and as I said, irregular. May do it for one minute, may be for 5 minutes.
I checked every thing except two suggestions to no avail. The two suggestions:
1. Monitor my rectal temperature.
2. Try the hammering into the seat and resurface the face of the seat of the
pop off valve.
You may want to try one, or both of the above. I would suggest the second
one first.
It never stopped on mine in 170 hours, and the guy that bought it has
noticed the same thing. But the engine runs fine and nothing else has blown
up on it.
I did change the washers in the pop off valve to increase and decrease the
oil pressure. Had no effect on the problem.
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Commonality Question |
<3413EC51.578A(at)mail.ic.net>
>>> 1.) Why are the factory planes normally painted white?
>>>
>>> 2.) Why is there an air inlet plenum over the engine on the factory
>>> planes?
Jim.
I have to take a shot at these from a "common sense" point of view.
1.) White paint reflects sunlight therefore keeping the interior of the
aircraft cooler when parked. In particularly the engine compartment. It is
also cheaper than tinted paint so an added bonus is increased profit.
2.) Expanded air molecules offer better heat transfer from the cooling fins
of the engine when it come time for them to do their job.
Close????????????????// Al
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gretz, Warren" <GretzW(at)tcplink.nrel.gov> |
| Subject: | RV Fly-In at Burlington, CO |
Just a reminder that the Burlington, Colorado RV Fly-In is coming
up
very soon! It is September 20th and 21st.
This RV Fly-In was a huge success last year and from what is
planned
this year, it will be even bigger and better this year!! Don't miss
it!
There will be notable speakers talking on a variety of subjects,
displays, airplane parts vendors, food vendors, and Van's will be
there also. There will be transportation to the town and tours
through
the Old Town including the historic Carousel. The people that will
be
staying Saturday night are going to be at the Comfort Inn. Mention
the
Fly-In for a special room rate.
Burlington, CO is about 90 miles directly East of Denver and about
7
miles from the Kansas border.
See you there!
Warren Gretz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terrance Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Fuel System |
Randall Henderson wrote:
>
> What about just moving the fuel pump upstream, specifically right under
> the selector valve? I am thinking of doing this so as to declutter the
> foot area. No crossfeeds or fuel injection or anything like that.
> Maybe a filter and quick drain at the low point though... Does anyone
> see any problem with this? These changes _seem_ minor but I agree
Exactly what I did. It works well. I have the high pressure Weldon pump
that I thought was to bulky to go on the fuselage side. My rigid lines
run straight from the tanks up to the fuel selector. From the fuel
selector to the pump with a quick drain at the lowest point then
straight up past the battery to the firewall on the passenger side. My
gascolator/filter is on the right side of the firewall. That made it
easy to run to the engine pump with a short hose. My other reasons for
changes were, I wanted the straightest shortest run of fuel lines
possible, especially on the engine (hot) side. I have blast cooled the
gascolator and fuel pump and heat shielded where hoses were anywhere
near exhaust pipes. Everything firesleeved as well. Result of all this
was very short direct routing of fuel linesand hoses and minimal chance
for vapour forming in the fuel system. All low points can be drained of
water easily. I have flown 140 hours in tempertures up to 105F degrees
and the engine has just purred. Maybe all just luck, but I wouldn't
change a thing.
Terry
RV-6 C-GZRV flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
Mike, the Electronics International FL-2R Fuel Level Gauge does exactly what
you describe and more, although it's a little pricey. It's in Van's catalog
as well as others. Don't know if any of them tell you this, but the
literature I got with mine does.
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Mike Wills
Sent: Monday, September 08, 1997 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: fuel cross tube
People sometimes forget about things they shouldnt.
Perhaps instead of trying to re-engineer Vans fuel system I should come up
with some kind of "time to switch fuel tanks dummy" alarm. Something to
thump me upside the head every so often as a gentle reminder.
Thanks for your comments.
Mike Wills
RV-4(wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bumflyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice On Landing RV6A When Heavy |
In a message dated 9/9/97 1:05:59, you wrote:
>Is it better to touchdown at a speed higher than stall so the tail isn't so
>low ( sort of fly it on to the runway at say 65 - 70 MPH )? This doesn't
>seem quite right though.
Your stated problem raises many questions, which all need to be addressed.
Gross weight, center of gravity, horsepower, airspeed errors, etc.
Notwithstanding all of the above, in regards to this one quoted question:
One man's opinion is the answer is YES. I have found out (the hard way),
that the RV-6A is a different animal over 1600 pounds. Maybe that's one
reason why Van uses that number! When I have fuel and pax which puts me over
that number I land fast and with power on, but still full flaps. I have a
180 with C/S so if I try the idle, flair to stall speed at heavy weight it is
more of a challenge than my 5600 hours of experience can handle with
consistency. Of course this uses about three times as much runway.
I am still very low time in the 6A and would be interested to hear from some
high timers, too.
D Walsh RV-6A 58 hours. 180 w C/S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Oil Pressure Question |
There are some other ways to make restrictor fittings outlined in Tony
Bingelis' books.
Les
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Tom Lempicke
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 1997 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Pressure Question
You are reading the fluctuations from the oil pump. The Piper Cherokee
has a special fitting between the engine and the guage. It has a
restricted hole through it to reduce these fluctuations, since they will
destroy the guage unit in short order. Either use one of these, or make
a fitting of your own with brass, brazing rod, and a 1/16 inch drill.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
| Subject: | Re: Is 210 Degrees Engine Oil Temp To Hot ? |
<3411EE44.763F(at)rkymtnhi.com> <340F8765.5A1F4700(at)infoave.net>
Tom Lempicke wrote:
>
>
> Have you ever checked the vernatherm in the engine?
OK I admit, I've been flying too many hours behind 2 strokes, so forgive me if
I ask
stupid questions; but "what the heck is a vernatherm"
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
Matt, I have tried several addresses but haven't been able to raise you
not the others. Please excuse using the RV net for this.
Last week I changed addresses from retflygtiger(at)proaxis.com.
Proaxis people told me that my adrress change would be automatic to the nets
I subscribe to. This does not appear to be the case. I have subscribed
twice to your net since. I was removed once. I appear to be still one now.
But I see my old address still listed on "who". I can't "unsubscribe the
old address because I have a new address.
How will I straighten out this mess? Sorry for the mess up!
Have a good day!
Denny,
RV-6 (R)N641DH
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ShelbyRV6A(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aeromatic prop info |
In a message dated 9/9/97 7:31:19 AM, you wrote:
<< For us unenlightened listers, could someone please explain/describe this
Aeromatic prop, design features, how it works, original application,
etc...?>>
I noticed in the Sport Aviation(the edition I recieved last night) that the
Fairchild 24 featured inside had a Aeromatic prop. The had it overhauled by
someone, who was listed in the article, that they thought was one of the last
few people working on these props. Anyway, check this article out and call
them - they may be able to give you more information.
Shelby in Nashville.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chris marion <flyrv6(at)cinci.infi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Any RV Builders in Dayton? |
Steve,
I live in maineville,oh. near kings island.feel free to call or email@
flyrv6(at)cinci.infi.net
513-683-6204
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
I have talked to the FAA about an inspection. They told me today (after
mailing all paperwork to them priority mail last week) it will be at
least October or later before they can make it to me. I called a DAR 70
miles away and he can be here Saturday. It will then take a few days to
process the paperwork before I can fly it. (if he doesn't find anything
wrong) His fee is 450.00. I would rather not wait until Oct. or Nov.
so I will pay the bucks. Is this in line with what others have had to
do? The FAA man told me matter-of-factly that homebuilts were at the
bottom of his list of priorities. I love that attitude. See ya.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Burlington, Colorado Fly-in |
I deleted the posting on the Burlington Fly-in 20-21 Sept 97. Would the
person who posted it please email me the information again. Thank you. Bruce
Bell rv4bell(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
I don't know in what FAA region you reside, but here in the Northwest that
hasn't been their attitude. In fact, they have been very supportive. Plus,
one of the Seattle MIDO guys is an RV-4 builder!
The last I heard, which was a while back, $250 was the going rate around here
for a DAR, but that probably varies with the inspector and the area.
Good luck with your inspection whichever route you go.
Les Williams
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Michael C. Lott
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 1997 1:37 PM
Subject: RV-List: inspection
I have talked to the FAA about an inspection. They told me today (after
mailing all paperwork to them priority mail last week) it will be at
least October or later before they can make it to me. I called a DAR 70
miles away and he can be here Saturday. It will then take a few days to
process the paperwork before I can fly it. (if he doesn't find anything
wrong) His fee is 450.00. I would rather not wait until Oct. or Nov.
so I will pay the bucks. Is this in line with what others have had to
do? The FAA man told me matter-of-factly that homebuilts were at the
bottom of his list of priorities. I love that attitude. See ya.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Burlington, Colorado Fly-in |
| From: | rodwoodard(at)juno.com (Rodney W. Woodard) |
The fly-in is September 20-21, 1997 at Burlington, Colorado. Many people
stay over on Saturday night... some even stay Friday night. Most people
stay at the Comfort Inn (719)346-7676. The room rate I was quoted (2 beds
for 2 people) was $56.82. The manager said they might be able to do
better than this, but they'd have to wait and see exactly how many rooms
we end up taking.
I don't work for anybody and I'm nobody official WRT to the fly-in. I
went last year and had a great time. Unfortunately, I don't even have my
own spam can to fly this year... I'll be flying my friend's Cessna. I
know, I know... bring our ropes, we'll be parking in the pasture to save
room for the good airplanes.
See ya all there!
Rod Woodard
Loveland, Colorado
RV-8, #80033
writes:
>
>I deleted the posting on the Burlington Fly-in 20-21 Sept 97. Would
>the
>person who posted it please email me the information again. Thank you.
>Bruce
>Bell rv4bell(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gasobek(at)juno.com (Gary A. Sobek) |
Michael:
I called a local DAR that I have known for almost 10 years to do my
Inspection. (Southern California, Riverside FSDO Areat) He charged me
$150, + milage + travel time. Total bill was $177. I gave him $180 cash
and told him to keep the change. He then took me to lunch at his
expense. I stopped by his house the day before the inspection. I
dropped off all of the paperwork except for the FAA FORM 8131-12. I gave
him 3 copies (he wanted 3 copies) of my WRITTEN FLIGHT TEST PLAN, Weight
and Balance, Standard Operating Checklist, and the 8 pages of EMERGENCY
PROCEDURES from my to be created Pilot Operating Handbook. All copies
are submitted in triplicate. Since I did not have form 8131-12, he gave
it to me to complete and have notarized. He request 3 copies of it. He
arrived for the inspection, looked at the aircraft, photographed it,
(DATA PLATE, PASSENGER WARNING, and N number), had me operate the engine
controls to verify full travel at the engine and run the boost pump. I
gave him the 3 copies of form 8131-12. He then gave me a 30 minute talk
about the Operation Limitations, and gave me all of the paperwork I
needed to fly. I was the 417 (he has done over 400 and the 417 is the
number I think he said) homebuilt that he has licensed. He has been in
aircraft maintenance for over 50 years and taught A&P's at a local
College before retiring.
It will cost me another $75 to get the IFR approval after completion of
the 25 hour flight test period. I am already cleared for VFR (including
night).
Gary A. Sobek
AeroSPACE Electical/Systems Engineer
FAA licensed A & P
EAA Tech Counselor
RV-6, N157GS s/n: 20480
(Michael C. Lott) writes:
>
>I have talked to the FAA about an inspection. They told me today
>(after
>mailing all paperwork to them priority mail last week) it will be at
>least October or later before they can make it to me. I called a DAR
>70
>miles away and he can be here Saturday. It will then take a few days
>to
>process the paperwork before I can fly it. (if he doesn't find
>anything
>wrong) His fee is 450.00. I would rather not wait until Oct. or Nov.
>so I will pay the bucks. Is this in line with what others have had to
>do? The FAA man told me matter-of-factly that homebuilts were at the
>bottom of his list of priorities. I love that attitude. See ya.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scott <acepilot(at)mwt.net> |
Michael C. Lott wrote:
>
>
> I have talked to the FAA about an inspection. They told me today (after
> mailing all paperwork to them priority mail last week) it will be at
> least
Edited here...
The FAA man told me matter-of-factly that homebuilts were at the
> bottom of his list of priorities. I love that attitude. See ya.
>
Probably because they know they can't get any "kick-backs" from the
manufacturers :)
Scott (RV-4 plans (preview) on hand...just deciding where to get my
tools!)
--
Gotta Fly or
Gonna Die !
--Ask me about my
Aeronca Super Chief--
amended 8-29-97: Now after feeling the "Need for Speed", building an
RV-4!
No, the Super Chief is NOT for sale :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Michael C. Lott wrote:
>
> I called a DAR 70 miles away and he can be here Saturday.
> It will then take a few days to process the paperwork before
> I can fly it. (if he doesn't find anything wrong) His fee
> is 450.00. I would rather not wait until Oct. or Nov.
> so I will pay the bucks. Is this in line with what others have had to
> do? The FAA man told me matter-of-factly that homebuilts were at the
> bottom of his list of priorities. I love that attitude. See ya.
>
Michael
The going rate in this area is anywhere from $100.00 to $250.00
dollars. $450.00 sounds high. Why does it take a few days to
process the paper work? He should be able to type you a airworthiness
certificate right on the spot and give a copy which means you can go
fly right away. Anyway that is the way it is done here.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
Is there another FSDO office near? It is possible that you could be
near the border with another area and a call might get a better
reception from another inspector.
John Kitz
N721JK
150 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com> |
I paid a DAR $400 and he signed the paperwork on the spot. Flew that afternoon.
>
Is this in line with what others have had to
>do? The FAA man told me matter-of-factly that homebuilts were at the
>bottom of his list of priorities. I love that attitude. See ya.
>
Richard E. Bibb
RV-4 N144KT
Oak Hill, VA
rbibb(at)fore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Twist in right elevator |
Greetings folks,
I know we've been down this road already...but, bear with me. My RV-8
right elevator ended up twisted...thankfully in such a way as to create
an opposing aerodynamic force to the torque and spiral slipstream of the
engine. I discovered while working on the left elevator (too
late!)..that the particle board V-blocks from Van's aren't perfect..at
least mine are not..and required some shimming to get perfectly true.
The edges are square, but the V slots are off just a wee bit. But, I
didn't catch it in time and ended up with a tweaked right side unit.
With the elevator on a flat table...and the inboard trailing edge flush
on the table surface, the outboard trailing edge is off the surface
about 5/8 inch. I know this probably won't have much impact on the
handling characteristics..but it just bugs me! And, the counterbalance
arm won't be flush with the stabilizer tip.
So, what was the consensus when this thread was initially posted? I
think I can straighten it out by removing all the spar rivets and
re-jigging it..but..should I? Aggggh! the horror...
Thanks for all the great support!
Brian Denk
RV-8 #379
wings ordered.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Fuel System |
The RV-6T (Red One) has the boost pump located on the floor in the center,
just forward of the fuel selector valve. The fuel line then runs forward,
just below the battery box and through the firewall. Works great. Bill
>
>Randall I believe your proposed arrangement for the fuel pump sounds like
>what I observed on Van's RV-6T at a fly in a couple years ago, and I really
>like it but couldn't figure out how to route the feed line under or by the
>battery so went with the stock arrangement.
>
>Maybe Bill Benedict can confirm what the 6T has. I also vaguely remember
>someone saying the air beetle had two pumps which also sounds like an
>improvement but at a cost in bucks and complexity.
>
>BTW it is nice to be able to hear the pump running since the engine driven
>one frequently produces the same pressure in flight. I can't hear it from
>the right seat nearly as well!
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Twist in right elevator |
hotmail.com!akroguy(at)matronics.com wrote:
> I know we've been down this road already...but, bear with me. My RV-8
> right elevator ended up twisted...
[snip]
> So, what was the consensus when this thread was initially posted?
Consensus? On the RV-list???
> I think I can straighten it out by removing all the spar rivets and
> re-jigging it..but..should I? Aggggh! the horror...
I've been there with an aileron.
Do NOT try to straighten it by force without removing all the rivets.
You'll just end up oil-canning the skin.
My aileron had a 3/4" twist. I drilled out and re-rivetted the bottom
rivets and rib rivets. However, that only removed about half the twist.
I also found myself with a little oilcanning in the skin.
My feeling is that drilling out all those rivets will result in more
damage than is acceptable. Unless you're particularly good at drilling
out 3/32" flush rivets, you'll wind up with several sloppy holes. And
that won't help the straightness of the final result.
OTOH, Bill Benedict said it would fly just fine with the 3/4" twist in
it.
Personally, I'd choose between fly it like it is and build an entirely
new one.
Frank.
(Rebuilding right elevator due to several screw-ups on the first one)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
>Michael
>The going rate in this area is anywhere from $100.00 to $250.00
>dollars. $450.00 sounds high. Why does it take a few days to
>process the paper work? He should be able to type you a airworthiness
>certificate right on the spot and give a copy which means you can go
>fly right away. Anyway that is the way it is done here.
>--
>Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
>jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
>
>
I think I can top that. The local MIDO REFUSES to perform inspections
anymore. I'll be ready in about two weeks for my inspection. I've been
told by the FAA to expect to pay $800+ for a DAR. Does anybody know of a
DAR willing to travel to Long Island?
Scott Gesele N506RV (love my RV-6A, fed up with the feds)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Need Advice On Landing RV6A When Heavy |
This is a subject that Mike Seager and I (Bill Benedict) agree and disagree
on, depending on which part we are talking about.
I have flown Van's 3ea RV-6A's (or almost 6A's: The 6A, 6B, 6T) a couple of
flights and each one is a slightly different animal. They all feel like
RV's, but with minor differences. The one thing that is common is the
landing approach and touch down. Having flown so many people in them, I
can't tell any difference between solo and having a 300 pounder with me, it
is just an automatic response. However here is my method, not saying that
it should be yours, but it works for me. However, verify that the
airspeed is fairly accurate at 80 mph indicated.
This proceedure works at sea level (200 feet msl), with one or two people,
in a 6A, 4 or 8 with an O-320. The 8 with an IO-360 is a different animal.
I don't have enough time in a 6 to be able to give a competent answer. Most
of the 6 time is in Louise's 6 in NZ, and she thought I had a lot of time
in them.
(All speeds in mph). Enter the pattern at whatever speed you want. As you
slow down, when you are approaching 100, put on half flaps. This gets the
nose down where you can see over it. On base, go to full flaps and slow
down to 80 (Mike Seager likes 90, but his airspeed indicates 10 mph high).
Maintain 80 until you cross the fence. If my speed gets below 80 as I cross
the fence, 75 indicated is the point that I feed in a little power and keep
it until the wheels chirp. As you level off just inches off the runway you
will feel the white lines on the runway tickling your bottom (well the
visual presentation is that you are that close). Keep the airplane at this
position just inches (less than a foot) off the runway by holding the nose
up. If you balloon, add a little power and continue down the runway in a
gently descent. In the 6A you will be able to see over the cowl throughout
the whole landing and you will have a presentation of the cowl descending
just slightly if you watch a point about 100 yards in front of the plane.
If you have judged your altitude correctly, the wheels will chirp on the
runway (while indicating between 55 and 65) just as the cowl begins to
obscure the runway. This will be prior to a full stall. The RV-6A will
drag the tail prior to the main gear contacting the ground if you try for a
full stall. At this point, with the mains on the runway, the 180's with
constant speed props will find the nose coming down at a pretty good rate.
For the 1/2 second after touchdown, watch over the cowling, and try to
keep the cowling at the same position with respect to that imaginary point
on the runway by using elevator control to keep it there. After about one
second, you can gently let the aircraft down on it nose gear (I don't, but
you can). I tend to perform both a soft field takeoff and landing in the
6A's. This is just a little extra protection for the nose gear. It also
protects the gear from any shimmy and provides more aerodynamic drag to slow
me down. Once the aircraft decelerates, I then let the nose down when I
approach full back stick deflection.
If I am carrying a full load such as on a trip, my approach speed will go
up 10 mph. If I have a heavy weight for a passenger, I might add 5 mph.
This is about the only adjustment I make in flying when extra weight is on
board.
Most of the landing is by feel and visual. The approach speed is closely
watched, but once I cross the threshold, it is visual and feel. Just
takes practice.
>Recently, I took up a person weighing 250 pounds ( and I am 225 ), and
>noticed a huge difference on the landing flair of the 6A. The landing flair
>becomes significantly tail low to the point where I can barely see over the
>nose of the plane. It almost feels as though the tail is going to hit the
>ground like the RV6 taildragger in a three point landing. I am doing full
>stall landing flairs. ( I have 10 hours in an RV6, 60 hours in an RV6A, 1200
>hours total ).
>
>My question is this:
>
>Is it better to touchdown at a speed higher than stall so the tail isn't so
>low ( sort of fly it on to the runway at say 65 - 70 MPH )? This doesn't
>seem quite right though.
>
>Has anybody noticed this much of a difference when taking a heavier passenger
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | re: Ivoprop Improvements since 1995 |
writes:
>
>Jim:
>
>What has Ivo changed in the design from the early models? Why is the
>prop solid now when it was so bad before? From your examples it
>sounds like there have been definite improvements. Do you know any
>specifics?
>I was always curious as to just how the mounting bolt barrels were
>anchored into the base of the prop. That was a problem area in the
>past. Must be different now. Do you still have to leave your spinner
>off so you can check the safety tape before every flight?
>
>DJ
Hi DJ and All,
I don't know the specifics on the internal lay-up of the prop blade. I do
know that Ivo has spent a
great deal of time improving this area of the blade.
What makes the Ivoprop Magnum prop work on the Lycoming IO-360 that is
clearly different than
the 1995 prop is a diamond cross-hatch pattern machined on the inside surface
of the hub crushplates.
These "teeth" bite into the outer shell of the blade hub and lock each blade
into place. The patterns
are symetrical so that blade location isn't critical (although Ivo recommends
marking the location
for each blade).
At the moment, an installation process is required to allow the blades to
seat onto the "teeth". Ivo
is developing a manufacturing process to eliminate this installation
procedure.
BTW, Ivo has the same problem of every prop manufacturer; i.e.; making the
installation as simple
as possible. (It's impossible to make a prop installation fool proof. Just
my opinion.)
Ivo recommends checking the tape daily on my engine. I just remove and
replace the spinner bowl
to check the tape. Yes, my first pre-flight of the day does take a little
longer than most.
Since my job is to try to break Ivo's prop, I like to know ahead of time if
I'm being successful. So
far, this year, I've been a terrible failure.
(My spinner didn't have a front plate. The backplate broke on my way to
Oshkosh. I saw the
"powder" (previously mentioned) at my first fuel stop, and started checking
the prop. The spinner
backplate was floating on the prop extension and the spinner was floating on
the blades. The
backplate must have broken through just before I landed. There was a very
small amount of
chaffing in the blade gel coat. No significant damage to the blades. So I
removed the spinner and
backplate. I flew to Oshkosh and back, and to Portland and back without a
spinner. Anyway, that's
why any pictures taken at Oshkosh will show my plane without a spinner.)
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A engine Ivoprop VP Prop Sportcraft Antennas
RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, California USA
http://member.aol.com/lesdrag/rv3.htm
http://member.aol.com/lesdrag/Ivoprop.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ivoprop Postings |
writes:
>
>I do not mean to flame Mr. Ayers as I admire anyone who has completed
>and flown their owm airplane but there are numerous accounts of failures
>with all types of IVO. My KFOX is 582 powered and the prop had serious
cracks
>at every bushing and a black powder which I mistook for dust from the
Brushes.
>Silver tape my katoody------ no thanks. One week after I reported my
>condition to EAA a Midget Mustang threw a blade on an Ivo Mag. Got a partial
list
>of such incidents fromm EAA and they cover the Full Spectrum. I have
>personally inspected several IVO since that time and have found indications
of
>blade movement on every single one and a couple were the heavier Magnun. Ivo
>always has an excuse ie 582 with 3;1 box causes harmonics ----o-320 has to
>large a power pulse ---blades improperly torqued-----prop not lined up with
>crankshaft was another I heard------seems to me there is a problem
>with every single IVO installation. The facts are there and the things are
>dangerous. JR
Hi JR and all,
This is all very interesting to me. But I still lack a frame of reference
for what you are addressing.
When did this happen?? Yesterday? Last week? Last year? Two years ago??
As far as I know, Ivo doesn't have a problem with his prop on any of the
stock Lycoming with the current production prop. That is, with the 1997
production Magnum prop.
In 1995, as I already said, it was a different story. What you state would
be consistent with Ivo recalling the Magnum props at that time.
During 1996, Ivo had modified the manufacturing process so the Magnum prop
operate properly on the Lycoming O-320. However, it hasn't been until late
1996, or early 1997, that Ivo was able to get the Magnum prop to perform
properly on the Lycoming IO-360 200 Hp engine.
So what time frame are you talking about.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A engine Ivoprop VP Prop Sportcraft Antennas
RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, California USA
http://member.aol.com/lesdrag/rv3.htm
http://member.aol.com/lesdrag/Ivoprop.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | DuPont Variprime considerations |
Here's a question for the guys with VariPrime experience--what must be done
to the aluminum and steel parts prior to priming? Must I clean the alclad
parts or can I just peel off the plastic and spray? Also, what preparation
is necessary for the non-alclad aluminum parts? Thanks for the help.
Ed Tynes
Early empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: re: Ivoprop Improvements since 1995 |
Dear Jim Ayers --- My problems with the IVO were in Spring of 1996. Prop was
purchased I think that March . Mustang crash was I think June or July of
1996---serious injury --totaled airplane . Info from VIP in E-- gave me
specifics on I think 12 accidents ---3 of which resulted in fatalities. As
far as I can tell the Only improvment to his design is the ss tape and the
new grooves in some of his hubs. I am not an engineer but letting a prop move
around until it seats is not sounding good to me. I was told the same thing
about seating movement being normal. I guess mine was really working up a
good seat because it almost unseated itself. IVO did give me my money back
with only small whimpers and a host of strange and illogical excuses. I
showed my photos of the prop to one of my teachers ( I have the A and am
working on the P) and he almost flunked me on the spot (joke) but he was very
impressed with what he saw. E-- and FAA was given at their request a report
on my prop and the photos. Please keep an eye on that prop for your own
safety. IVO prop might be viable if he made it in 2 pieces so the cam could
be installed and then installed a laminated center section perm. joining the
blades much like any wooden prop. JIM.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JimNolan(at)mail.kconline.com |
Micheal,
The FAA gave me the run-around in South Bend, In when it was my
time for inspection. They gave me some names of designates I could
call. ( they were in Chicago, and didn't want any part of inspecting
a homebuilt). I finally called the district office in Ohio that has
jurisdiction over South Bend. I told them I had too much money and
time in the airplane to let it sit, and I expected them to do the job
they were paid to do. The man I called agreed with me and informed
South Bend that if they valued thier jobs they would inspect my
airplane in a reasonable amout of time. ( two days later they found
the time)
Lets not forget that this is thier job. You just have to find a
reason for them to do it.
By the way, a inspector in the Indianapolis area (Chambers) told
me if I got it down there, that he would inspect it. I told him that
I wasn't suppose to fly it until it had been inspected. ( he then
said, if you get it down here, I will inspect it) He was out of my
area, but if South Bend hadn't came through when they did, I would
have flown it to Indianapolis.
So my advice is to find someone with authority over your area
FSDO (they do have bosses too) or find an inspector in another area
that will do it) BTW - I didn't pay a dime for my inspection. It's
thier Job.
Jim Nolan Warsaw, In
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: inspection(flight manual) |
<< 8 pages of EMERGENCY
PROCEDURES from my to be created Pilot Operating Handbook >>
Does anyone have any any experience with an RV flight manual advertised by:
CR Supply in Manitou Springs, Colo?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
Michael,
> It will then take a few days to process the paperwork before
> I can fly it. (if he doesn't find anything wrong)
Does this guy work for the Feds or for you? I'd expect the slowness
from the Feds. Around here (KY), it's same day service!
>His fee is 450.00. I would rather not wait until Oct. or Nov. so I will
>pay the bucks. Is this in line with what others have had to do?
I'm betting there's another DAR in the general area who can do it for
less money. In KY, I know of two DARs. One charges $300. The
other charges $200. Guess who'll get my business if I have to get a
DAR to do my inspection. I'm hoping a friend of mine at the FSDO
will do mine. I respect his opinions on things and know I will be given
a good inspection. I understand the cheaper of the two DARs will do
the same thing.
>The FAA man told me matter-of-factly that homebuilts were at the
> bottom of his list of priorities. I love that attitude.
The FAA would like nothing better than for us to get out of the air so
they can concentrate wholly on the big boys. What with their falling
out of the sky a lot these days, I can understand why!
ichael
Jim Sears
RV-6A #22220 (gear mounts drilled!)
AA5A N26276
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
I don't know any answers, except to say that is what the DAR told me.
He said people complain that he is expensive but defended that by saying
it cost him alot to keep up his certification. It sounds like I may be
getting ripped, but I have no choice. I am starting not to love the
FAA.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice On Landing RV6A When Heavy |
<< This proceedure works at sea level (200 feet msl), with one or two
people,
in a 6A, 4 or 8 with an O-320. The 8 with an IO-360 is a different animal.
>>
Bill,
Can you elaborate on landing the RV-8 for us building the 8 with the IO-360.
Also, is the procedure for the -8 with the O-320 different?
Thanks
Tom Chapman
RV-4 N153TK
RV-8 80025, starting the wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: Twist in right elevator |
Mine are the same way (rv-4). I found it was a common thing among
rv's. I was told not to worry about it, other than it looks goofy.
I'll let you know if it affects flying characteristics next week, i
hope.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
I had been talking to the Baton Rouge, La. fsdo as they are half as far
away as the one in my state,(MISSISSIPPI). When it came time to
schedule the inspection, they (BTR) told me I was out of their district,
I would have to call the one in Ms. I thought federal meant they
weren't bound by state lines, but hey, what does a homebuilder know
(especially this one!). I'll let the list know how it goes. See ya.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
800.00 ? How many planes is he inspecting for you? Thanks for making
me feel better!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com (Stephen Paul Johnson) |
| Subject: | Re: Twist in right elevator |
You wrote:
>
>on the table surface, the outboard trailing edge is off the surface
>about 5/8 inch. I know this probably won't have much impact on the
>handling characteristics..but it just bugs me! And, the counterbalance
>arm won't be flush with the stabilizer tip.
The elevator is rigged so that the counterbalance arms on both
elevators are flush with the tips and any imperfection is at the root
end. For what it's worth, I found that my flat surface used for
drilling stiffeners on the control surfaces wasn't perfectly flat. I
had to shim the 3/4" plywood I was drilling into.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KOZINSKI GARY <kozinski(at)symbol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: DuPont Variprime considerations |
When using Variprimer I used Scotch Bright and lightly went over all the
surfaces then I wiped everything down with acetone. Be sure to use good
rubber gloves and protect your skin from the acetone. Ventilation is
important too. Then, spray away, using enough to just cover the metal.
I've yet to have any problems. Gary RV-6 s/n 20038 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil> |
What are the potential repurcussions of flying prior to inspection and
issuance of an Airworthiness Cert.? I dont think this is something that I
would risk.
Mike Wills
RV-4(wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
> By the way, a inspector in the Indianapolis area (Chambers) told
>me if I got it down there, that he would inspect it. I told him that
>I wasn't suppose to fly it until it had been inspected. ( he then
>said, if you get it down here, I will inspect it) He was out of my
>area, but if South Bend hadn't came through when they did, I would
>have flown it to Indianapolis.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Twist in right elevator |
> With the elevator on a flat table...and the inboard trailing edge flush
> on the table surface, the outboard trailing edge is off the surface
> about 5/8 inch.
[snip]
> So, what was the consensus when this thread was initially posted? I
> think I can straighten it out by removing all the spar rivets and
> re-jigging it..but..should I? Aggggh! the horror...
I think 5/8" is a lot. But my advice would be to just put it aside,
finish the airplane, then come back and decide if you want to rebuild
the elevator. By then you will have plenty of experience with mistakes
as well as a better idea of what degree of imperfection you are willing
to live with. My guess is that you will want to just build a new one,
and that by then you will not think of it as "the horror", but instead a
trivial re-do.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: DuPont Variprime considerations |
>
> Here's a question for the guys with VariPrime experience--what must be done
> to the aluminum and steel parts prior to priming? Must I clean the alclad
> parts or can I just peel off the plastic and spray? Also, what preparation
> is necessary for the non-alclad aluminum parts? Thanks for the help.
I started off religiously scrubbing with Scotchbrite and either vinegar
(makes a cheap acid etch) or acetone. But I have graduated to just
wiping them down with acetone to remove the glue residue from the
plastic and any markings. I do still Scotchbrite flanges and other
faying surfaces. Variprime is self-etching and I can't tell the
difference with or without Scotchbrite.
--
Greg Young gyoung@cs-sol.com
Citabria N90AV
RV-6 s/n 23070 skinning fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JHeadric(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: IO-360 for sale |
I have a O-SMOH IO-360-A3B6D engine for sale, suitable for an RV8 or the
hottest RV4 you ever saw! Dynafocal mounts and fuel injection. Price is based
on an outright sale, signed off logs by A&P-IA. For details email
Jheadric(at)aol.com or phone 503/637-6621. $17,900 or will take engine core or
possible trade for part of the price. What do you have? Let's talk.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lothar Klingmuller <lothark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel cross tube |
>
>> Perhaps instead of trying to re-engineer Vans fuel system I should come up
>>with some kind of "time to switch fuel tanks dummy" alarm. Something to
>>Mike Wills
>>RV-4(wings)
>
>I got into the habit of switching tanks every 30 minutes after almost
>running a Cherokee tank dry one time.
>John Walsh
>RV-4(wings)
>
To add to John W. commend:
I made a a HABIT to switch tanks on the full and on the 1/2 hour with my
modified C175 with an Aux. tank. The Aux t. had to be emptied to the
right main tank.
Initially I either forgot to turn the transfer pump off or neglected to have
enought room in the right tank (=fuel pumped the the blue sky!). So I
devleoped the KISS fuel management system:
On the full and on the half hour switch tanks. Regardless. Also had a
column on my flight plan to record switches. NO more if's, when's after
that! Works great.
Lothar* Klingmuller | lothark(at)worldnet.att.net | Denver (303) 922-2329 h &
FAX ||6A: continueing w/ fuse'ge when garage is finished|| *(pron'd:
"low-TARR")
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan Carroll <carroll(at)geology.wisc.edu> |
When I checked my elevator against a flat table (I checked the table), I
found the root trailing edge to be 5/16" above the table. Then I flipped
the elevator upside down, and once again the same corner was 5/16" above
the table. This seems to be caused by the fact the the angle formed by the
tip rib and that of the root rib aren't exactly the same (mine differ by
about 2=B0). The bottom line is that you shouldn't check for twist by layin=
g
the elevator on a table.
Alan Carroll
RV-8 #80177 (Wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DJ Molny <D.J.Molny(at)evolving.com> |
| Subject: | RV Safety: Accident Rates, Part 2 |
Yes, RVers, it's time for another fun, fact-filled discussion of RV safety
statistics.
Background:
I got to wondering about RV accident causes and rates, particularly as
compared to the GA fleet as a whole. Analyzed a bunch of NTSB data and got
some insight as to causes, but not rates. If you missed the original posting,
drop me a note and I'll send you a copy. Polled the RV group asking for hours
flown per year, crunched the numbers, and here we are.
Caveats:
- This is a small sample, 18 data points, just over 1% of the entire RV fleet.
As before, the spreadsheet that I built to analyze this data is available via
e-mail, upon request.
FAA hours flown est. based on fuel sold, divided by aircraft type.
Linear growth model courtesy of Dennis Persyk.
>1983: 5
>1984: 0
>1985: 4
>1986: 5
>1987: 0
>1988: 7
>1989: 8
>1990: 7
>1991: 8
>1992: 8
>1993: 16
>1994: 11
>1995: 14
>1996: 12
Thanks to all those who responded to the poll: Steve Colwell, Louise Coats,
Mitch Robbins, Fred Stucklen, Rick McBride, Gary Corde, Ken Hoshowski, John
Darby, Tom Martin, Bob Skinner, Jim Ayers, Les Williams, Todd Magargle, Mark
("Check Six") Frederick, and Zelda Gifford. Gary's contribution was
especially noteworthy: He got data from three other RV owners as well!
Thanks also for the kind words about the first posting. Hope y'all find this
one useful as well. (Last in series.)
_______________________
DJ Molny "Realisant mon espoir,
Evolving Systems, Inc. je me lance vers la gloire, OK..."
djmolny(at)evolving.com -- Talking Heads
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Twist in right elevator |
Regarding twists and ensuring straightness, I have found a transit to be =
very helpful in getting things right. It was especially helpful in getti=
ng the wing spar straight and level in the jig.
Brian Eckstein
6A - getting back to it after a summer of fun
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Royson <royson(at)fix.net> |
I've been trying to figure out who is primarily responsible for the
production of the RVator newsletter.Whoever it is is remarkably modest, I
assume it is Ken or Bill at Vans. I would like to correspond with that
party off the list, could someone enlighten me ?
Thanks
Royson Parsons
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JimNolan(at)mail.kconline.com |
Mike Wills,
In my case I was told by South Bend that they wouldn't inspect
my RV-4. They were swamped and had other prioritys. Five years ago
there wasn't as many DARs as there are today, and the ones I got hold
of wouldn't inspect it.
After 35k and 3100 hrs., you G__ D___ RIGHT it was going to fly.
I'm sure everyone's circumstance is different. In today's age when
everyone obeys the law and our federal representatives do such an
outstanding job, my circumstance would probly never arise again.
Today the FAA is a kinder more gentle administration, and I'm sure
they would bend over backwards to help all of us law abiding
builders.
Jim Nolan N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Beckham <76623.1166(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Aeromatic prop response |
Subsequent to publishing preliminary flight tests of an Aeromatic prop on
our rotary-powered RV-4, we received numerous requests for short primer on
why's/wherefores of Aeromatic prop design: how it works, original
application, why we are revisiting it for possible use with our rotary
engines. I'll give it a shot and try to keep it short as possible.
Adjustment of blade pitch is fully automatic, reducing pilot workload.
The prop allows engine to generate rated power for take-off, and with no
adjustment by pilot, not exceed preset rpm during take off, climb out and
high speed cruise. This is accomplished by utilizing the natural forces
acting on the blade and propeller counterweights. The unique configuration
of the propeller makes this possible in the following manner.
Blades screw into hub at an angle, producing rearward sweep. This angle is
fixed but blade is allowed to pivot in the hub in the arc of a cone (viewed
from the blade tip). Blade pivots foward of plane of rotation to achieve
lower pitch; rearward for greater pitch. Forces to achieve movements are
produced by (1) blade thrust and (2) centrifugal force. The following
occurs: from a standing start or take-off roll, the thrust of the blades
is high. The thrust of blade acting on center of pressure pivots blade
forward to low pitch allowing the engine to develop rated power. As
velocity of a.c. increases and blade thrust decreases, centrifugal
counterweights pivot blade rearward into higher pitch.
By maintaining given cruise rpm, constant h.p. of the engine is available
at altitude up to cruise-critical (wide-open-throttle) altitude. An
excellent reference concerning design and operation is available in the
Aeromatic Service Manual if you can get your hands on one.
We've talked to many pilots and a few aviation historians about this
propeller. It apparently was manufactured by Koppers Mfg. from 1946 and
available on many certified applications for years. We were told Univair
later bought the rights and sold and serviced Aeromatics up to 1970's.
Later, inventories and tools were sold and resold to various parties.
The designer's ability to utilize and coordinate existing natural forces in
a manner that is so elegantly simple, with low parts count, is impressive.
The perceived negatives of the old Aeromatics are unclear. One noted
aviation writer told me that some field service problems arose because most
Aeromatics were originally installed on lower cost general aviation
aircraft which were kept outside and the wood blades reportedly had
problems as a result of absorbing water. Also, with the older,
low-power-to-weight a.c., take-off from high altitude airports was
compromised unless the prop was equipped with the altitude compensating
option which was later available--necessitated by fact that as altitude
increases, thrust force decreases and pitch resultingly
increases--decreasing rpm. on take off. This is what needed compensation
at higher airports for the older, lower power-to-weight a.c. birds using
the props.
But due to our recent successful flight tests on our RV0-4 we are
interested in follow up tests utilizing composite blades. If that effort
is successful, we hope to encourage someone to produce an Aeromatic-type
design wo we would have a viable, lower cost, in-flight adjusting prop.
1. An updated Aeromatic-type prop would allow our little engine to develop
rated power (200h.p) at t.o. without the cost, complexity and weight of a
cs prop.
2. With $14,900 price of our engine/reduction gear, existing
electric/wood/composite cs props are a high percentage cost of the engine.
3. We desire use of composite or fully-encapsulted wood/composite blade
because of excellent damping properties for gears. Our engine uses an
internal spur gear for prop reduction gear and also internal gears for
rotor (piston) and eccentric (crankshaft) interface. Ideally, prop may
need some type of feature allowing adjustment of high pitch stop in
flight.
Apologies for length of response--I tried to keep as short as possible.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Pomeroy <pomeroy(at)spiritone.com> |
I am new to Oregon and to the RV list. I am interested in building an
RV-8 and would like to help anyone that needs help just to get some
experience. If anyone needs help just let me know. I am in Aloha,
Oregon and am available any evening. Thanks for all of your time.
Dave Pomeroy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kearns <ckfiber(at)dallas.net> |
I will be in Santa Fe on the 11th and 12th of Sept. and was wondering if
there are any -8 builders in the area or any flying RV's that I could take a
look at. Although I am still working on my wings it never hurts to look and
get ideas for panels etc. Thanks in advance.
Charlie Kearns
N113JK
RV-8 80271
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Jackson <denny(at)transport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator twist? |
Alan Carroll wrote:
>
>
> When I checked my elevator against a flat table (I checked the table), I
> found the root trailing edge to be 5/16" above the table. Then I flipped
> the elevator upside down, and once again the same corner was 5/16" above
> the table. This seems to be caused by the fact the the angle formed by the
> tip rib and that of the root rib aren't exactly the same (mine differ by
> about 2). The bottom line is that you shouldn't check for twist by laying
> the elevator on a table.
>
Correctomundo. The trailing edge of the elevator is not parallel with
either side of the spar, but should be with the centerline of the spar.
If you lay the spar flat against the table either side, there should be
a gap between the table and the outboard trailing edge. The same goes
for the rudder.
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DJ Molny <D.J.Molny(at)evolving.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Safety: Accident Rates, Part 2 |
>DJ - I seem to be missing one thing - what do the numbers represent?
>Number of accidents per... 100,000 flight hours? Let me know - I'm
>interested. Appreciate your work on this (particularly the first
>posting)!
Um... it may not make sense because I never finished writing it! I've had
this half-baked email sitting in the composition folder for months now. For
some unknown reason (dare I blame it on my email program!?) it must have been
sent some time recently.
In fact, due to a heavy workload at the office and the fact that I clearly
have no time for homebuilding over next few years, I actually unsubscribed
from the list some months ago. If you have questions or comments, please
email me directly at: djmolny(at)evolving.com
To help y'all interpret what little data I do have, the column of years
followed by a number represent the number of accidents reports in each year.
And here are the raw "hours flown per year" received from the cited RVers:
Who # years Hrs/Yr.
Steve Colwell 1 150.0
Louise Coats 2 61.5
Mitch Robbins 5 80.0
Fred Stucklen 3 240.6
Rick McBride 5 80.0
Gary Corde 1 80.0 (Gary Corde x 4 is really Gary + 3 friends)
Gary Corde 1 100.0
Gary Corde 1 125.0
Gary Corde 1 80.0
Ken Hoshowski 3 61.7
John Darby 3 57.0
Tom Martin 1 125.0
Bob Skinner 1 175.0
Jim Ayers 8 53.0
Les Williams 1 140.0
Todd Magargle 1 150.0
Mark Frederick 1 140.0
Zelda Gifford 1 72.0
---- ------
40 1970.8
This yields an average of 109.49 hours per RV per year, plus or minus 23 hours
at 95% confidence. Rather a large range due to the small number of samples.
In addition, in order to get accidents per 100,000 hours (the industry
standard benchmark), we would need to come up with total fleet hours flown.
Dennis Persyk roughed out a linear growth model for me, but I'm not sure how
much value to place in it because the size of the fleet may actually be
growing exponentially.
And that's where I dropped matters. The missing "golden data" are the number
of aircraft in the fleet, by year. Some additional figures on hours flown per
year would be nice too, since 18 samples is a pretty small data pool.
Hope this helps, at least a little. And sorry for the e-mail "leak".
Best regards! I'm looking forward to the day when I can rejoin the list and
get serious about building.
_______________________
DJ Molny "Realisant mon espoir,
Evolving Systems, Inc. je me lance vers la gloire, OK..."
djmolny(at)evolving.com -- Talking Heads
>------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT --------
>SENT 09-10-97 FROM SMTPGATE (D.J.Molny(at)evolving.com)
>
>
>Yes, RVers, it's time for another fun, fact-filled discussion of RV safety
>statistics.
>
>Background:
>
>I got to wondering about RV accident causes and rates, particularly as
>compared to the GA fleet as a whole. Analyzed a bunch of NTSB data and got
>some insight as to causes, but not rates. If you missed the original
posting,
>drop me a note and I'll send you a copy. Polled the RV group asking for
hours
>flown per year, crunched the numbers, and here we are.
>
>Caveats:
>
>- This is a small sample, 18 data points, just over 1% of the entire RV
fleet.
>
>As before, the spreadsheet that I built to analyze this data is available via
>e-mail, upon request.
>
>FAA hours flown est. based on fuel sold, divided by aircraft type.
>
>Linear growth model courtesy of Dennis Persyk.
>
>>1983: 5
>>1984: 0
>>1985: 4
>>1986: 5
>>1987: 0
>>1988: 7
>>1989: 8
>>1990: 7
>>1991: 8
>>1992: 8
>>1993: 16
>>1994: 11
>>1995: 14
>>1996: 12
>
>Thanks to all those who responded to the poll: Steve Colwell, Louise Coats,
>Mitch Robbins, Fred Stucklen, Rick McBride, Gary Corde, Ken Hoshowski, John
>Darby, Tom Martin, Bob Skinner, Jim Ayers, Les Williams, Todd Magargle, Mark
>("Check Six") Frederick, and Zelda Gifford. Gary's contribution was
>especially noteworthy: He got data from three other RV owners as well!
>
>Thanks also for the kind words about the first posting. Hope y'all find this
>one useful as well. (Last in series.)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Fuel System |
Bill, does the RV-6T (Red One) have the older style, deeper battery box
bottom? It doesn't appear that the newer (1992) box bottom would accommodate
the fuel line going underneath unless it comes up and out towards the back,
then through the battery box back, and then through the firewall. Otherwise a
hole would have to cut right through the 3/4" angle at the bottom of the
firewall. Of course, I don't see any reason that you couldn't joggle the line
to go on top of the box bottom and then straight out through the firewall
except that the line would then be more exposed to possible damage. I have
seen one RV with a steel braided fuel line running up the center that way
which appeared to be okay if it had been secured somehow, which it wasn't,
that I could see.
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Bill Benedict
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 1997 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: Re: RV-List: RV Fuel System
The RV-6T (Red One) has the boost pump located on the floor in the center,
just forward of the fuel selector valve. The fuel line then runs forward,
just below the battery box and through the firewall. Works great. Bill
Bill
RV-4-180 soon. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary <gwhite(at)vaxxine.com> |
Does anyone know if a 17 to 18 year old RV3 Kit (partially started)
would still be supported today or what modifications or updates have
been done? Is there updates for the spar? What should I expect to pay
for a kit of this age less motor mount ,engine,electrics and updates.
thanks
Gary
gwhite(at)vaxxine.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott D. Morgan" <smorgan(at)pdq.net> |
| Subject: | RV6A Fever and Cure solicitation |
Hello to all you RV8tors out there!
My name is Scott Morgan. I live in League City, TX (South suburb of
Houston) and have been trying to cure a case of RV fever for exactly a year
now. I've tried Sun N Fun (96), Oshkosh (96), Cozy plans, Velocity
brochures, Vision peeks, and even KR2 daydreams but nothing seems to fend
off my obsessive compulsive behavior to look at my year old RV6A preview
plans on a ritualized weekly (OK nightly) basis. If the only cure is to
buy an empenage and start building slap my in the monitor and wake me up to
reality!!! What tools, fixtures, jigs, and oh yes, total itemized cost
expenditures can I budget for to prepare the wife for when she balances the
checkbook every month and beats me into confession?
Help!!!! (Seriously --- I want to go ahead and buy the empenage -- look I
said it! Can anyone provide me info on jigs, fixtures, options including
builder mods and phlogiston spars recommendations. I sure could use some
ballpark budgeting line items to plan the incremental spending of my kids
college fund. (They still can't tell time, so I don't think they'll know.
Gives me time to teach them (boys) how to play golf like Tiger Woods so
they won't need Dads airplane funds!
Sure would appreciate some response, and thanks for your support!!
Best regards to you folks
Scott Morgan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PhilipR920(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Pitot Phenolic Connector |
The Aircraft Spruce catalog lists an AN315-1 phenolic connector receptacle
along with the AN5812 pitot tubes.
Anyone know if the AN315-1 is required to mount/connect the pitot? I am using
the Gretz mounting bracket.
Phil Rogerson, 6AQ60057
Fernandina Beach, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: inspection(flight manual) |
| From: | gasobek(at)juno.com (Gary A. Sobek) |
I purchased a copy and I do not wish to offend anyone but it is a BIG
WASTE of money.
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6, N157GS 20480
writes:
>
>
>
>Does anyone have any any experience with an RV flight manual
>advertised by:
>CR Supply in Manitou Springs, Colo?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ivoprop Improvements since 1995 |
| From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS) |
writes:
>
>Dear Jim Ayers --- My problems with the IVO were in Spring of 1996.
>Prop was purchased I think that March.
This was the earlier prop design. After you installed the prop, how
often did you check the prop bolt torque?
>Mustang crash was I think June or July of 1996---serious injury
--totaled airplane.
This was still the earlier prop design. Is this the same Midget Mustang
that lost its 20" diameter spinner, which then went through the prop?
If it is, the prop stayed intact. NTSB stopped their investigation;
something about the pilot being distracted when suddenly sitting too high
in the cockpit. :-)
(I don't mean to make light of a bad situation, but I don't see the need
to get too involved in the details of this accident.)
Jim Ayers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Rowles <lmrowles(at)netspace.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Fever and Cure solicitation |
>
>Hello to all you RV8tors out there!
>
Don't worry about budgets, any way, you are probably going to have lie.
Good Luck. Les.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Devlin" <jdevlin(at)americus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pitot Phenolic Connector |
Phil,
I just bought the AN5812 pitot tube from Aircraft Spruce and the tube
came with the phenolic connector. The Gretz bracket was received Saturday
and installed on Sunday. It is nicely crafted and fit perfectly in my
nearly completely wing.
Hope this answers your question.
Best regards,
John Devlin
Smithville, GA
RV6A finnishing wings, starting fuselage, finnishing kit on order
----------
> From: aol.com!PhilipR920(at)matronics.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Pitot Phenolic Connector
> Date: Wednesday, September 10, 1997 11:19 PM
>
>
> The Aircraft Spruce catalog lists an AN315-1 phenolic connector
receptacle
> along with the AN5812 pitot tubes.
> Anyone know if the AN315-1 is required to mount/connect the pitot? I am
using
> the Gretz mounting bracket.
> Phil Rogerson, 6AQ60057
> Fernandina Beach, FL
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CHRIS.BROWNE(at)bge.com |
I am a low hour pilot (100 hrs, all in 172s) looking at a RV6/6A. I
took a ride in a RV-6 and I'm hooked - what a gas. I want to dump MY
money into MY plane, rather than a beatup rental, and I like to build.
I know I have the technical wherewithall to build the thing, but I am
anxious about developing the skills to takeoff and land. How much
tail wheel time should I seek, and in what plane? I am planning on
making a trip to Van's for some transition training prior to flying on
my own, but how much more training do I need? I realize that the
RV-6A is an option, and that I don't need to make the final decision
until I order the fuselage kit, unless I go the quickbuild route, but,
darnit, the RV-6 LOOKS like it should be a taildragger.
I'm not trying to stoke the RV6/6A debate fire, I am seeking some
advice on what is the safest thing for a pilot like me. After that
ride in the RV-6, I just can't pay $65/hr for a 172 anymore ... is it
just me?
P.S. I live in the Atlanta, GA area, and would be interensed in
hearing from local builders/flyers. My home E-mail address is
cbrowne714(at)AOL.com
Chris Browne
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | RV6A Fever and Cure solicitation |
>>What tools, fixtures, jigs, and oh yes, total itemized cost
expenditures can I budget for to prepare the wife for when she balances t=
he
checkbook every month and beats me into confession?<<
First off, take over the checkbook duties so your wife is never fully
informed as to what it costs! ;->
Plan $1000 or so for tools depending on what you already have. The tail
kits are very complete but you will find yourself spending maybe a couple=
hundred more for misc wood for jigs and mistakes. I am completing a -8
tail and can't comment beyond that.
Scott A. Jordan
RV-8 #331
N733JJ
Trim tab not pretty, doing it again just to make you -4 & -6's that
actually MADE you tab feel better!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick and Barbara Osgood <randbosgood(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Tank rivet sealing |
A while ago someone mentioned a product to seal rivets that leak on a
tank that is completed. This product was to be applied to the surface of
the tank. Can someone please let me know what that product was. Any
other suggestions to seal a few leaking rivets would be appreciated.
Rick Osgood
RV6A Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | circuit breaker switches |
Hi all
It's time to make some decisions about switches.
Van's has the circuit breaker switches for about 20$.
A separate switch-breaker sells for about the same amount, 10$ each.
My guess it would be easier to install the circuit breaker switch.
Any opinions on what I should do?
Any advice on wiring the whole airplane?
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
________________________________________________________________________________
Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by InfoAve.Net
| From: | GIBBONSR.FTC-I.NET(at)InfoAve.Net (RB Gibbons) |
| Subject: | Pitot Phenolic Connector |
The AN5812 Heated Pitot Tube comes with the Phenolic Connector, no need to
buy an extra. The Power wires connect to it and it snaps onto two posts on
top of the pitot tube. (I made the mistake you were about to and ordered
the connector... now I have two.)
RB Gibbons 80067
Moving to Tucson
Wings and Tail complete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cheryl Sanchez <csanchez(at)mailhost.avici.com> |
>
>Does anyone know if a 17 to 18 year old RV3 Kit (partially started)
>would still be supported today or what modifications or updates have
>been done? Is there updates for the spar? What should I expect to pay
>for a kit of this age less motor mount ,engine,electrics and updates.
>thanks
>Gary
>gwhite(at)vaxxine.com
>
>
Hello Gary,
I purchased an RV-3 kit from Van's in 1991 and I have
been slowly working on it for a while. I put it aside after
I purchased an almost-complete 6A almost two years ago.
Around 1984, Van redesigned the wing spar and rear
spar attach of the RV-3 and it is technically called the
RV-3A now.
In the last year or two Van determined, after a fatal
crash, that neither the 3 nor the 3A spar was as strong as he
thought and he asked everyone flying them to restrict the
aircraft to the utility category until furher notice.
Since then he has come out with spar update kits for
both versions of the main wing spar that bring it up to spec.
These update kits are available from Vans free of charge. If
the wing is complete one of the skins will have to be removed
in order to get to the spar to apply the update.
I know that Van is supporting those of us who bought
the 3 kits and I would assume that he would support a builder
that took over a kit from another builder. When I bought the
6A kit from another builder I sent them a letter and the serial
number was transferred to me. I used that to buy an engine and
a prop.
Good luck.
Cheryl Sanchez
csanchez(at)world.std.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DAVID STRATTON" <DSTRAT(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Oil Pressure Question |
I have had the same problem for the last 2 year on a io360 with the christian
inverted system. fluctuation between 70 to 80, and intermittent at that.
sometimes seems as if when you power back to idle and slowly power up it
stabilizes, often stable at cruise but with no warning fluctuation starts
again???????? suspect oil press relief wobbling???? I have called everyone
and can not seem to identify the source of the problem dstrat@ msn.com
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Richard Bibb
Sent: Monday, September 08, 1997 8:24 AM
Subject: RV-List: Oil Pressure Question
A question for the group:
I am experienceing mild flucuations of Oil Pressure indications at cruise.
The needle bounces back and forth between about 70-80 PSI. Does anyone know
of any particular cause of this phenonenom? Is it a warning of some sort?
The engine runs great otherwise although Oil Temps are a little low (about
150-160 degrees - need to make restrictor plate for oil cooler airflow).
Engine is 150HP, O-320-E2D. Using Isspro instruments and sender from Van's.
Richard E. Bibb
RV-4 N144KT
Oak Hill, VA
rbibb(at)fore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV Fly-In at Burlington, CO |
<< Just a reminder that the Burlington, Colorado RV Fly-In is coming
up very soon! It is September 20th and 21st. >>
When do we pay the $15 and to whom?
Gene Francis cafgef(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HinkleyC(at)fca.gov |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Fever and Cure solicitation |
* * * * The views expressed in this EMail are my own and do not represent
the policy or position * * * *
* * * * of the Farm Credit Administration. * * * *
Scott,
As a first time RV builder and having been where you are I can offer the
following advice.
1. Be honest with yourself when you figure out how much the airplane
will cost you. I think if you plan less that 30k VFR or 40K IFR over the
project you are just dreaming. Only people that work at VAN's get engine
cores offered to them for 2K, the rest of us pay 6K +.
2. Do not scrimp on tools, go visit an RV builder and have them show you
what tools you need to do the empenage kit, then purchase your tools from
Avery or Cleaveland. Figure $1,500 which would include a pneumatic rivet
squeezer.
The major expenses come at the end of the project, i.e. the engine and the
instruments. The kit cost will be spread over the project, 1.2K for the
emp, 4-5K for the wing kit, 4-5k for the fuse kit, 3-4k for the finishing
kit.
You can get started for about 2.5k and see if you like the building
process. The bottom line is that if you are not happy building you can
sell the emp kit and the tools. That would allow you to recover most of
your expenses.
Curtis Hinkley
RV-8 N815RV reserved
CHink11769 @ aol.com
hinkleyc(at)fca.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Acker <r.acker(at)thegrid.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Fever and Cure solicitation |
>Hello to all you RV8tors out there!
Hey, some of us here are RV3-4-6tors's . Welcome to RV fever.
All of your questions can be answered by checking out the RV-list archives
at the matronics web site, listed below. Be sure to check out all the RV
links as well, in particular John Hovan's web page.
Good luck,
Rob Acker / r.acker(at)ix.netcom.com / RV-6Q in slowbuild mode :(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
> I am a low hour pilot (100 hrs, all in 172s) looking at a RV6/6A. I
> took a ride in a RV-6 and I'm hooked - what a gas.
Chris, both options are a "gas". It is a very personal thing it seems. I
decided to switch to the -6 after purchasing the -6A kit due to the engine I
found. The nose wheel would have been in the way of the carburator. But I
think you will be happy with either type. Both are extremely attractive
airplanes. Not to say the great performance. The factory folk tells me it
is running about equal, -6 & -6A back and forth each month. Go find a
taildragger rental, airknocker, Cessna 140 or whatever and see how you like
it. I think you will find that once you get past the idea that one is
harder handle you will find you just have pay attention to all airplane on
landings and takeoffs.
Bottom line....it all in the eye (head) of the beholder.
Have a good day!
Denny,
RV-6 (R)N641DH
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | making parts over...... |
<< Trim tab not pretty, doing it again just to make you -4 & -6's that
actually MADE you tab feel better!
>>
Heck- you know, some of us had to mine the bauxite & make our own aluminum!
We also had to pound reeds into papyrus for the plans! I'm tellin ya, it was
tough in the "good old days". Those limestome bucking bars didn't last too
long- every once in a while ( about every half hour), the dang thing would
just turn to dust in your hand. Primer?? Bah!! We just smeared some tree sap
on the thing.
Ahem.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pitot Phenolic Connector |
The AN connector is required to connect the heating element. It is a 2
contact solder connector - no problem to assemble. I used 12 gage wire - it
fits in the solder cups ok. I used 2 aircraft flex hoses to connect the pitot
and static connections on the probe I bought from Aircraft Spruce (AN part
#). I used the Gretz installation hardware. The mount gets a little full with
2 hoses and the electrical connector but it all fits. Make sure you have
enough slack in the hose(s) and wiring to be able to pull the probe down
enough to install and disconnect for service. I installed mine just aft of
the front spar one bay outboard of the stock location to avoid interference
with the tiedown line.
Mike Talley Arlington, WA
assembling flaps for my RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Tailwheel time |
I am a low hour pilot (100 hrs, all in 172s) looking at a
RV6/6A... How much
tail wheel time should I seek, and in what plane?
I sent this exact same question out a while ago before I started
building my RV8. I was worried for a while that I wouldn't "get it" but
just figured if my friends could fly taildragger so could I. I went out
and started my taildragger rating. It was supposed to take 10 hours in
a champ. I spent about 20 getting it right. It is different but once you
get the hang of it it's just like you're flying. No big deal. In fact
I like it so much I bought myself a citabria to fly while I build. The
bottom line is if you have a solid 50 comfortable solo hours landing
taildraggers and then you make sure to get an RV checkout before trying
to solo, you should have no problems. Some will say more or less and it
may depend on your progress. I went slow but with only 30 hours
tailwheel I took the citabria across the USA landing at out of the way
short strips in cross-winds with no problem. By the time you're done
building you'll have had PLENTY of time to get tailwheel current. Build
the plane you really want and build it for life!
-Mike
RV8 wings
1969 7KCAB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Jackson <denny(at)transport.com> |
bge.com!CHRIS.BROWNE(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
> I am a low hour pilot (100 hrs, all in 172s) looking at a RV6/6A. ..........snip
> I'm not trying to stoke the RV6/6A debate fire, I am seeking some
> advice on what is the safest thing for a pilot like me. After that
> ride in the RV-6, I just can't pay $65/hr for a 172 anymore ... is it
> just me?
Chris:
Don't even go there. I now have a little over 200 hours on my -4 which
puts me down to about $180/hr, not counting setting aside money for an
engine overhaul ten years down the road. Build and fly for fun, not
profit.
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com> |
>
>
>
>
but I am
> anxious about developing the skills to takeoff and land. How much
> tail wheel time should I seek, and in what plane?
Chris:
Everybody is different but I have 170 hours total (25 in my RV-4) and I
found it to be easy to land (notice I didn't say easy to land WELL). I do
have about 50 hours in an Aeronca Champ so I did learn a lot about
taildraggers early on but, IT AIN'T ALL THAT HARD.
I suggest getting a a tailwheel checkout in a Citrabia somewhere and put a
dozen or so hours shooting landings. Stay on the rudders and be sure to fly
when the crosswind is right across the runway some.
The tailwheel/nosewheel thing is blown out of proportion (IMHO) because most
pilots today a) don't learn in a tailwheel airplane and b) in general there
aren't that many available for rental. Sure a tailwheel airplane is more
unforgiving on the ground than a a tricycle gear airplane but with hundreds
of thousands of teenage pilots trained on taildraggers during WWII as
evidence, I assert it isn't as hard as the "myth" seems to make it to be.
Get some dual and go for it!
Richard E. Bibb
RV-4 N144KT
Oak Hill, VA
rbibb(at)fore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV Flight Manual or POH |
<< << 8 pages of EMERGENCY
PROCEDURES from my to be created Pilot Operating Handbook >>
Does anyone have any any experience with an RV flight manual advertised by:
CR Supply in Manitou Springs, Colo? >>
I'm very interested in finding out what content most of you have in your RV
POHs. I think that those of you who have created such things on a word
processor might want to post them to the RV-List so that we all may benefit.
I realize there is more to a POH than text and perhaps someone who really
has done an outstanding job in this area could scan it and post it to one of
the RV websites (Hovan, Hartmann, etc.).
Just a thought,
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Luker, Michael G." <luker.michael(at)mayo.edu> |
I have a certified and yellow tagged pesco wet cc vaccum pump for sale,
fits most Lycoming engines, $250.00 dollars, a vacuum oil air seperator
$50.00, and a brand new gascolator just like the one's that Vans sells,
for $45.00 dollars. ANyone interested can call me at home at
(507)280-0357. Or E-Mail me at
luker.Michael(at)mayo.edu thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Pitot Phenolic Connector |
> The Aircraft Spruce catalog lists an AN315-1 phenolic connector receptacle
> along with the AN5812 pitot tubes.
> Anyone know if the AN315-1 is required to mount/connect the pitot?
I got my AN5812 pitot tube a couple of years ago, from Spruce,
for $129.95. It came with the phenolic connector.
Randall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gretz, Warren" <GretzW(at)tcplink.nrel.gov> |
| Subject: | Pitot Phenolic Connector |
Heated pitot tubes--- read on.
______________________________ Forward Header
__________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-List: Pitot Phenolic Connector
Date: 9/11/97 7:51 AM
The phenolic connector is the electrical connector for the supply
voltage for the heater. The connector should come with your pitot
tube
at the time of purchase of the heated pitot tube. I am sure that
A/C
Spruce offers them as replacement parts should one get broken.
While on this subject, I am now offering the AN5814-1 (12 volt)
pitot
tubes to be sold and used along with my pitot tube mounting bracket
kits. Contact me and I will get you a price. I also have a new
flyer
on my mounting bracket kits. I can also send one of these to anyone
interested.
I will be at the Burlington, CO Fly-In on September 20 and 21st and
plan on having a table there to display my kits, parts and pieces.
Warren Gretz
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: RV-List: Pitot Phenolic Connector
[SMTP:aol.com!PhilipR920(at)matronics.com] at SMTP
Date: 9/10/97 9:19 PM
The Aircraft Spruce catalog lists an AN315-1 phenolic connector
receptacle
along with the AN5812 pitot tubes.
Anyone know if the AN315-1 is required to mount/connect the pitot? I am
using
the Gretz mounting bracket.
Phil Rogerson, 6AQ60057
Fernandina Beach, FL
--+
http://www.matronics.com |
|
"rv-list-request(at)matronics.com" |
subject. |
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
I have a pair of the 13.4XP (or whatever it's called) installed in my
citabria. On a long XC (18 hours in two days) it made a huge difference
in my amount of fatigue. Music sounds good through them too. I saw the
Bose ones and I'm willing to pay whatever but they were just so big and
clunky looking I didn't imagine wanting to wear them for long. The DC's
have a nice felt lining on the earpieces. They seem to do the job for
me.
-Mike
> ----------
> From: Doug Rozendaal[SMTP:netins.net!DougR(at)matronics.com]
> Reply To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 1997 12:10 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Dave Clark ANR
>
>
> Alan,
>
> I just bought a DC 10-13X at OSH. It is not a Bose.. It works well
> however and cost half as much. I can't say that I am thrilled with it
> and
> I have to decide, because I have 30 days to return it. I will
> probably
> keep it. It is just as good as the Headset's Inc add on and alot
> cleaner
> and if you add the headset plus the add on kit you are close to what I
> paid.
>
> I have used the lightspeed and it is probably better Noise Canceling
> but it
> is an all plastic and would not hold up to the abuse that I give a
> headset.
>
> The short story is that the Bose is twice as good as any of the others
> I
> have used and costs twice as much. My name is "Rozendaal" and my
> people
> come from the land of wooden shoes and Iron heads like the "Van
> Grunsven's"
> and I am too dutch (read tight$$$) to give Dr. Bose a grand.
>
> IMHO
> Tailwinds, N240 the pink panther
> Doug Rozendaal
> Dougr(at)netins.net
> http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
>
> ----------
> > From: Alan Carroll <geology.wisc.edu!carroll(at)matronics.com>
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RV-List: Dave Clark ANR
> > Date: Thursday, August 28, 1997 10:00 AM
> >
>
> >
> > Has anyone had experience with the Dave Clark ANR headsets?
> (H10-13X, I
> > think). How well do they work, and how do they compare to other
> options?
> > I've used an H10-20 headset for 10 years with no problems, but would
> like
> > ANR.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> > Alan Carroll
> > RV-8 #80177 (Wings)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: circuit breaker switches |
Buy Bob Nuckell's Aeroelectric COnnections - will save a lot of grief later....
My 2 cents...
>
>Hi all
>It's time to make some decisions about switches.
>Van's has the circuit breaker switches for about 20$.
>A separate switch-breaker sells for about the same amount, 10$ each.
>My guess it would be easier to install the circuit breaker switch.
>Any opinions on what I should do?
>Any advice on wiring the whole airplane?
>
>Craig Hiers
>RV-4 N143CH
>
>
>
>
>
Richard E. Bibb
RV-4 N144KT
Oak Hill, VA
rbibb(at)fore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Fever and Cure solicitation |
Hmmm, tools -- one of my favorite subjects!
I'd say $1000-$3000. Quite a big range, I know. But there is a big
difference between the tools you _need_ and the tools you _gotta have_,
if you know what I mean.
The rv-list FAQ includes a pretty good write-up on what tools you need.
If you haven't read that I suggest you go back and do so. I'd start
with the basic tool kit from someone like Avery (www.averytools.com) or
Cleveland (www.cleavelandtool.com). Figure the cost for one of their
starter kits, plus a good 20-30 gallon belt-drive compressor, hoses,
fittings, etc., and a bench grinder. Then decide which of the "luxury"
tools you want: bandsaw (actually I consider this a must-have),
pneumatic squeezer & yokes, close-quarters angle drill, the sky's the
limit. Hey, you can always tell your wife "I can sell them when I'm
done". Never mind that you won't...
One tool I recently acquired was a hobbyist's bending brake from
Aircraft Tool Supply (www.aircraft-tool.com). This thing is made from
steel as opposed to the one that spruce sells which is aluminum and too
lightweight in my opinion. Only $34.95 for an 18 incher, and I have
found it to be very useful -- wish I got it a long time ago.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Jackson <denny(at)transport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: circuit breaker switches |
Craig Hiers wrote:
>
>
> Hi all
> It's time to make some decisions about switches.
> Van's has the circuit breaker switches for about 20$.
> A separate switch-breaker sells for about the same amount, 10$ each.
> My guess it would be easier to install the circuit breaker switch.
> Any opinions on what I should do?
> Any advice on wiring the whole airplane?
>
Craig:
I used combination switch breakers in my -4 and they work great. I
found some new surplus DC rated switch-breakers at a local electronics
surplus for about $5 ea. I like a breaker vs. fuses for the reason that
you don't have to carry spare fuses and reset is instantaneous instead
of the land/search/find/remove/replace routine with a fuse. I had a
breaker trip one night due to my heater hose coming loose from the
firewall and falling on my master solenoid connection. The vibration
caused the fabric covering the spiral wire winding on the hose to chafe
through and gave me a momentary short just at the moment of touchdown.
I quickly reset the breaker and finished my landing roll. The short had
cleared itself so the breaker held in until I could taxi back to my
hangar. It took me awhile to figure out what had happened. But imagine
what the situation would have been like if I had still been in the air
at night with a blown master FUSE. (What IS the procedure for landing
at a controlled airport at night with no radio or lights??)
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bumflyer(at)aol.com |
KEN IS REMARKABLY MODEST. ON THE OTHER HAND JUDGING FROM HIS DUMMY ARTICLES
HE IS JUSTIFIABLY SO.
FROM MY MODEST PERSPECTIVE HE HAS DONE A SUPERB JOB. LOOK AT SOME PRE KEN
ISSUES AND YOU WILL DEFINITELY AGREE. THE CURRENT NEWSLETTER IS A VAST
IMPROVEMENT. I DON'T THINK HE (OR ANY ONE ELSE AT VAN'S) MAKES A BUSHEL
OF DOUGH SO HE WOULD APPRECIATE ANY KIND WORDS I AM SURE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: circuit breaker switches/installation help or opinions |
<< A separate switch-breaker sells for about the same amount, 10$ each.
My guess it would be easier to install the circuit breaker switch.
Any opinions on what I should do?
Any advice on wiring the whole airplane?
>>
See the panel pic of my bird in this month's SA. Those are switch/breakers
to the right. MUCH easier than separate switches and breakers as used on my
-4. I seem to recall B Nuckolls has an opinion on this subject, also. I'd go
with his recommendation.
How to put the stuff in? One wire at a time, and soon it's all done. Leave
yourself a bit of slack to pull the switch or electrical device out at a
later date for service. Run your loom out of the way of other systems &
cables if possible. Remember, you are going ot be the fella servicing this
a/c, so make it easy on yourself.
Check six!
Mark
HR2 180 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV6 Canopy For Sale |
A friend of mine asked me to post the following:
"Have old style RV-6 canopy in new condition still in crate. If some can
use it I only want $95. You pay shipping or pick it up in Salt Lake City,
Utah. Contact Boyd Seal at 801 272 6668 or E mail to jseal(at)juno.com"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | circuit breaker switches |
Craig, although Van's is very competively priced on most things and more
convenient usually, it does pay to shop around. I just got my circuit breaker
switches (which I agree is easier to use) and pull-off circuit breakers from
Chief and my pop-out circuit breakers from Wicks. Of course, I was also
ordering other items from them both which made the shipping charges
reasonable.
I know that you are aware of Bob Nuckoll's Aeroelectric Connection and Tony
Bingelis's books. And there are some suggestions in Van's literature. I
would get some kind of plan put together to get an idea where you're headed
and then just work on one circuit at a time until you start getting everything
done. It isn't that hard. Of course I can say that because I'm an
electrician and have also done it before. But I've heard other first-timers
also state the same.
On this same subject, I made a statement some time ago about using the EXP-BUS
product which was being discussed here. I went as far as ordering the 60 Amp
version. I also returned it after making some negative observations as
follows:
1. The swithces were not lined up because of bent and twisted lugs and were
missing a couple of screws.
2. The mounting instructions were not current to cover the updated printed
circuit board with tabs.
3. The wiring schematic showed using #8 wire for the starter circuit from the
battery which I think almost anybody knows is totally to small.
4. The advertising and literature failed to mention that there is no keep
alive circuit on the 60 amp version.
5. It would require as much or more wiring than some other methods if you
remote the switches from the PCB.
6. There was no cost or labor saving advantage to me that I could see.
7. It would be difficult to make a simple field repair to the circuitry in
case of failure.
I also liked a few things such as:
1. A soft start light circuit.
2. Avionics relay with starter interrupt circuit.
3. Alternator field on a relay protected circuit.
4. Add-on Status Board with Volt/Amp readout and panel light dimmer circuit.
5. Lighter if using the basic switches on the PCB.
6. The PTC current limiters (Polyswitches) would probably last much longer
than mechanical circuit breakers.
7. If not remoting the switches, there would definitely be less wire runs
than putting in separate fuses and switches.
One thing that Bob Nuckolls brought up about the EXP-BUS was the direct feed
from the battery. Personally I don't see any more danger from this than I do
about bringing a direct feed to a switch for an essential bus that he
proposes.
If you are using a lightweight starter and are worried about the aircraft
starter solenoid sticking and not being able to turn it off with the master,
then pull off the jumper wire from the starter cable to the solenoid mounted
on the starter and run a circuit to the cockpit with a switch.
My $.04 worth
Les
---------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Craig Hiers
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 1997 8:46 AM
Subject: RV-List: circuit breaker switches
Hi all
It's time to make some decisions about switches.
Van's has the circuit breaker switches for about 20$.
A separate switch-breaker sells for about the same amount, 10$ each.
My guess it would be easier to install the circuit breaker switch.
Any opinions on what I should do?
Any advice on wiring the whole airplane?
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: circuit breaker switches |
Hi Craig,
The best advice any of us could give you would be to spand $42.00 for
Robert L. Nuckolls "AeroElectric Connection Book. It fits the bill for
what you want. Best of all he is just a phone call away to answer any
questions you may have.
In my opinion Bob is the 'Guru' for homebuilt electric stuff and yes,
yes, yes he can help with the " advice on wiring the whole airplane?" for
sure.
Cecil Hatfield
RNuckolls(at)compuserve.com
>
>
>Hi all
>It's time to make some decisions about switches.
>Van's has the circuit breaker switches for about 20$.
>A separate switch-breaker sells for about the same amount, 10$ each.
>My guess it would be easier to install the circuit breaker switch.
>Any opinions on what I should do?
>Any advice on wiring the whole airplane?
>
>Craig Hiers
>RV-4 N143CH
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: elevator twist? |
>> When I checked my elevator against a flat table (I checked the table), I
>> found the root trailing edge to be 5/16" above the table. Then I flipped
>> the elevator upside down, and once again the same corner was 5/16" above
>> the table.
>Correctomundo. The trailing edge of the elevator is not parallel with
>either side of the spar, but should be with the centerline of the spar.
Past posts concerning control surface twist has prompted me to consider
this possibility and now with the construction of elevators looming up
for me I decided to calculate where and by how much this will be. Last
night I took 4pp and did the calcs. For the RH elevator, if the three
points a. the inboard spar corner, b. the outboard spar corner and c.
the outboard trailing edge corner rest on a flat surface and if my
calculations are correct (no guarantees) the inboard (root) trailing
edge will be 0.14" off the surface.
Hmmm, lets see if I can build them straight...
Doug Gray RV-6 Empennage
Sydney, Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Fever and Cure solicitation |
pdq.net!smorgan(at)matronics.com wrote:
> What tools, fixtures, jigs, and oh yes, total itemized cost
> expenditures can I budget for to prepare the wife for when she balances the
> checkbook every month and beats me into confession?
Depends a bit how fast you build. Depends also on what tools you already
have. If you go to my Bunny's Guide page
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/bunny.htm it shows roughly my progress and
expenditure. I borrowed a jig, so you'd need to add that to my costs.
Not included is any expenditure I could hide in the normal household
budget and conveniently forgettable stuff. Probably be best if you do
the checkbook balancing in future :-) Probably be a good idea to take
her out to dinner (with plenty of wine) before discussing it too :-)
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Horace W. Weeks" <74664.2105(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Any RV Builders in Dayton? |
Steve,
I'm in Bellbrook, Ohio and finishing an RV6. Call me when you have a
chance. 937-848-7073
Ace Weeks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Steadman <fstead(at)fastlane.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Fever and Cure solicitation |
fca.gov!HinkleyC(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> You can get started for about 2.5k and see if you like the building
> process. The bottom line is that if you are not happy building you can
> sell the emp kit and the tools. That would allow you to recover most of
> your expenses.
>
Curtis, I see a few of these empanage kits far sale, in TAP, KitPlanes,
Sport Avaition, etc. I wonder how many of them get sold, and on terms
the builder is happy with.
Is it the drill to build the empanage kit if you're not sure you will
like building, or buy a built up empanage kit if you are?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com> |
I guess I should let Bill at Van's answe the question, but let me give
you my experience.
I bought a 1/2 done (ha!) RV-3 that was started back in '77/'78. In
retrospect I paid more than I should ($5,500), as a lot of parts were
missing: nuts & bolts, weldments, rod ends, bearings, etc. Partly
missing because I bought it from someone who bought it from the original
builder, partly because the kits back then were *far* less complete than
they are now. If you absolutely must buy an old kit, I'd suggest you get
the most recent RV-3 parts list from Van's and do a thorough inventory
(not easy to do with a partly built kit).
On the other hand, you can count on Van's support. They sent me the spar
strengthening kit free of charge. If the wings have already been
skinned, the biggest challenge with that modification is setting the
3/16" rivets called for. But you only need to do the modification if you
can't live with the Utility category limit of +4.4/-4.4 Gs.
While you may justify some of the purchase price of a partly built kit
as the work the builder has put into it, please consider the about note
about missing parts. Also consider corrosion and quality of workmanship.
Something that is not easy to check is how well it was jigged
(straightness, dimensions, etc.).
All of this relates only to RV-3 as no longer sold by Van's. For an
RV-4, 6 or 8 I really would recommed buying a new kit from Van's.
Ok, this got to be longer that I intended, but if you absolutely must
buy an RV-3 kit, get a recent vintage or get heavy price reduction based
on missing parts, corrosion, etc.
Finn
Gary wrote:
> Does anyone know if a 17 to 18 year old RV3 Kit (partially started)
> would still be supported today or what modifications or updates have
> been done? Is there updates for the spar? What should I expect to pay
> for a kit of this age less motor mount ,engine,electrics and updates.
> thanks
> Gary
> gwhite(at)vaxxine.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fran Malczynski <fmalczy(at)ibm.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Tailwheel time |
Michael Angiulo wrote:
>
>
> I am a low hour pilot (100 hrs, all in 172s) looking at a
> RV6/6A... How much
> tail wheel time should I seek, and in what plane?
>
I also had the same concerns about taildraggers and figured the only way
I could make a 6 vs 6A decision was to go out and try it.
I loved it. The training took about 10 hours and up until about hour
number 8 I figured I could never learn to fly a taildragger. Seems I was
always behind the rudders on takeoff and always crabbed off the
centerline on landings and then magically every thing started falling
into place. By hour number 10 I was making landings in that old Champ
better then I had been able to make in tricycle type aircraft. At the
end of the training I felt that I was a better pilot because I had
learned to fly the airplane until it was stopped and tied down. I was a
lot more cognizant of winds while taxing and the proper control inputs
to compensate for them. I became a lot more disciplined in my approaches
to landing by absolutely tracking that centerline. All in all a
wonderful experience.
I still havent made the 6 vs 6A decision because of other factors
(insurance, resale value etc), but now I know that I can fly a
taildragger.
PS, my instructor kept me on tarmac for most of the 10 hours because it
lets you know very quickly when you are not doing things right. Grass
takeoffs and landings were reserved for the final hour and were a pure
pleasure.....Good luck
Fran Malczynski (Wings)
Olcott, NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: circuit breaker switches |
I used the ckt breaker switches in mine to save room. They work just
fine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pitot Phenolic Connector |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
RB,
Where did you order the connector from. I need to replace a broken
one...
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Working on 2'd RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
InfoAve.Net!GIBBONSR.FTC-I.NET(at)matronics.com (RB Gibbons) writes:
>Gibbons)
>
>The AN5812 Heated Pitot Tube comes with the Phenolic Connector, no need
to
>buy an extra. The Power wires connect to it and it snaps onto two posts
on
>top of the pitot tube. (I made the mistake you were about to and
ordered
>the connector... now I have two.)
>
>RB Gibbons 80067
>Moving to Tucson
>Wings and Tail complete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gcomfo(at)tc3net.com (Gordon Comfort) |
| Subject: | Re: circuit breaker switches |
Craig Hiers wrote:
> It's time to make some decisions about switches.
> Any opinions on what I should do?
> Any advice on wiring the whole airplane?
>
> Craig Hiers
> RV-4 N143CH
Craig: Suggest you get Bob Nuckolls book. It will help you understand
the whole picture fairly well. It might lead you to use fuses in some
parts of the circuitry. In general, simplicate, combine where possible
and remember that the circuit protection (fuse, breaker etc.) is to
protect the wiring, not the device. I used pull breakers on the
alternater field, "B" lead, and the Turn and Slip gyro because they are
rarely used and should not be switched by accident. There are occasions
where I have the system powered up and don't want to listen to the T & S
singing away. I did not use fuses in the -4 but will in the -8, but by
no means exclusively. I have several switch breakers on the -4 and they
work fine but they are expensive and for lighting etc. would probably be
better with fuses and simple switches. Personal preference dominates
switch layout but I have found that while a row of like switches looks
nifty it occasionally results in the wrong one being flipped. There are
many reference books besides the Aeroelectric Connection that will help
with wire specs and sizing but the Connection covers most all of the
bases, including soldering techniques.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Hill <hilc(at)dlemail.itg.ti.com> |
>
>Chris:
>
>Don't even go there. I now have a little over 200 hours on my -4 which
>puts me down to about $180/hr, not counting setting aside money for an
>engine overhaul ten years down the road. Build and fly for fun, not
>profit.
>
>DJ
>
How does it come out so high? I've been eyeing the RV-8 just
waiting for the right time to start. I had figured that not
counting the cost of the plane that you would easily come down
to the $60/hr range for fuel, engine overhaul fund, and insurance.
Of course tiedown/hanger fees are there to but they vary widely.
In the end I just don't see how it couldn't be at least as
inexpensive as renting a 172.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Chris Hill |
Raytheon | "The box said 'Windows '95 or better',
Email: hilc(at)dlep1.itg.ti.com | so I bought a Mac."
Phone: (214) 462-4387 |
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Romuald <DK_Romuald(at)compuserve.com> |
To any builder:
I am setting up my garage to build an RV-8. I have read many books
including the series by 'Bengelis'. Does anyone have any special
reccommendations as to the form or length of the table used for building?=
=
Does Van's reccommend anything or offer any suggestions? In the books I
read they went to great lengths to produce a level and true surface on th=
e
table. Is this critical in the construction of the RV series or is most =
of
the alignment done through the use of jigs?
Thanks,
Dave Romuald
Prospective builder
DK_Romuald(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Romuald <DK_Romuald(at)compuserve.com> |
Does anyone have any info on the rv4 crash last year in IN that involved
the in flight seperation of the stabilizer? Specifically was this due to=
a
material defect, design defect or builder error.
I have searched through the NTSB for RV accidents and to my satisfaction =
I
found the vast majority of accidents were due to mechanical (engine
failures)or pilot causes. I wrote to Vans and the temporary loading
restriction is still in effect which makes me suspicious, since the final=
report from the NTSB is out.
My major concern is the soundness of the design. I am very confident in
it, however this accident is not like the others. The pilot had an ATP a=
nd
over 12,000 hours. If anyone ordered the accident docket from the NTSB I=
would like to hear from them, or if you have reliable info from sources
close to the accident.
Thanks
Dave Romuald
DK_Romuald(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tool for Rod End Bearings |
| From: | "William H. Watson" <watson1(at)alink.net> |
Folks,
Awhile back someone on the list was selling a home-brew tool to screw in
rod-end bearings. Are you still there and how's your stock? OK to let
me know off list. I can't believe I'm far enough along to have a use for
such a tool.
Bill Watson
Rear Wing Spars
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net> |
| Subject: | Re: circuit breaker switches |
juno.com!cecilth(at)matronics.com wrote:
> The best advice any of us could give you would be to spand $42.00 for
> Robert L. Nuckolls "AeroElectric Connection Book. It fits the bill for
> what you want. Best of all he is just a phone call away to answer any
> questions you may have.
>
> In my opinion Bob is the 'Guru' for homebuilt electric stuff and yes,
> yes, yes he can help with the " advice on wiring the whole airplane?" for
> sure.
>
> Cecil Hatfield
>
In case anyone is interested, Bob Nuckolls is giving a two day seminar in
Portland,OR area on Sep. 27,28. Only $75. See his web page at
WWW.aeroelectric.com
Ed Cole
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: circuit breaker switches |
*** snip ***
>Craig:
>
>I used combination switch breakers in my -4 and they work great. I
>found some new surplus DC rated switch-breakers at a local electronics
>surplus for about $5 ea. I like a breaker vs. fuses for the reason that
>you don't have to carry spare fuses and reset is instantaneous instead
>of the land/search/find/remove/replace routine with a fuse. I had a
>breaker trip one night due to my heater hose coming loose from the
>firewall and falling on my master solenoid connection. The vibration
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Guys,
... this is why you need to add insulating boots to all exposed
electrical power connections. The correct aircraft part for this
application is a MS2571 "Terminal Nipple" for less than $2 and has a
negligible weight.
I'm sorry, but I put this argument into the "lack of details"
category, not the "breaker is better than a fuse" category. If I had been
performing EAA Technical Inspections on this RV, I would have noted a lack
of insulation.
.... Gil (pay attention to details) Alexander
EAA Technical Counsellor, Chapter 40, Northridge, CA
>caused the fabric covering the spiral wire winding on the hose to chafe
>through and gave me a momentary short just at the moment of touchdown.
>I quickly reset the breaker and finished my landing roll. The short had
>cleared itself so the breaker held in until I could taxi back to my
>hangar. It took me awhile to figure out what had happened. But imagine
>what the situation would have been like if I had still been in the air
>at night with a blown master FUSE. (What IS the procedure for landing
>at a controlled airport at night with no radio or lights??)
>
>DJ
-------------------------------------------------------
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: circuit breaker switches |
> >It's time to make some decisions about switches.
> >Van's has the circuit breaker switches for about 20$.
Chief sells them for $14.50. Don't know why, but apparently in
this particular case, Vans does NOT have the best price.
> The best advice any of us could give you would be to spand $42.00 for
> Robert L. Nuckolls "AeroElectric Connection Book.
I agree, although he doesn't say much about these switches in his book.
I got a bunch of them and used them for my pitot heat, lights, Avionics
master (I know Bob says don't bother but I did) and fuel pump, and used
pull type CBs for the rest. I ran the Avionics master (15A) to a spade
fuse block, so all the avionics are on one switch/cb but are also
separately fused in a (less accessable) fuse block, so if one goes it
shouldn't take down the whole stack. Made for a bunch fewer circuit
breakers. I know Bob advocates going to ALL fuses but I didn't
really want to do that. This seemed like a good compromise.
I later spoke to Bob about my arrangement and he wasn't real excited
about it because it requires another "unprotected" lead to go between
the separate busses. But beyond that he didn't seem to have any real
objections.
I got a data sheet on the Switch/circuit breakers and I don't remember
exactly how many operations they were rated for, but as I recall it a
pretty large number, 10,000 or something like that.
Only other advice I have to give here (if you want lots more go ahead
and email me privately) is to avoid mixing pull-type breakers
(potter-brumfeld series w23) with the recessed-button type (series w58)
in the same row, as the terminals are located differently on the back
which makes it difficult to use a continuous bus bar. The toggle type
(series w31) do have the same terminals as the pull type (w23).
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warfield, Keith" <kwarfield(at)syntellect.com> |
| Subject: | Tool for Rod End Bearings |
Bill,
If you have a copy, the tool is the 14 (16) years of rvator, and was
made from a 3/8 drive socket. Let me know if you don't have access to
years of rvator.
Keith
RV-6A
kwarfield(at)syntellect.com
> ----------
> From: William H. Watson[SMTP:alink.net!watson1(at)matronics.com]
> Reply To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, September 12, 1997 7:05 AM
> To: RV List
> Subject: RV-List: Tool for Rod End Bearings
>
> Awhile back someone on the list was selling a home-brew tool to screw
> in
> rod-end bearings.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Pace <wbpace(at)adnc.com> |
| Subject: | Need new squeezer source |
It would appear that Action Air Parts has run out of CP 214-C squeezers.
He doesn't know when or if he will get any more. Does anyone know of
another source for used/rebuild squeezers. I just can't justify almost
$500 for one.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV Fly-In at Burlington, CO |
Gene,
They will have a registration booth on site, you can pay when you register.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven Janicki" <SJANICKI(at)us.oracle.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dave Clark ANR |
--=_ORCL_48202711_0_11919709121407520
I have owned both DC and BOSE. I recently purchased a Marv Golden Headset for $149.00
and I am
just as happy (especially with the lower cost).
Regards,
Steve
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The statements and opinions expressed here are my own and
do not necessarily represent those of Oracle Corporation.
When once you have tasted flight,
you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been, and there you will always long to return.
-- Leonardo Da Vinci
Steven B. Janicki
Director of Client Services
ORACLE Data Center
Voice (415)506-2740
Fax (415)633-2933
--=_ORCL_48202711_0_11919709121407520
Date: 11 Sep 97 12:18:27
From:"Michael Angiulo "
Subject:RE: RV-List: Dave Clark ANR
I have a pair of the 13.4XP (or whatever it's called) installed in my
citabria. On a long XC (18 hours in two days) it made a huge difference
in my amount of fatigue. Music sounds good through them too. I saw the
Bose ones and I'm willing to pay whatever but they were just so big and
clunky looking I didn't imagine wanting to wear them for long. The DC's
have a nice felt lining on the earpieces. They seem to do the job for
me.
-Mike
> ----------
> From: Doug Rozendaal[SMTP:netins.net!DougR(at)matronics.com]
> Reply To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 1997 12:10 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Dave Clark ANR
>
>
> Alan,
>
> I just bought a DC 10-13X at OSH. It is not a Bose.. It works well
> however and cost half as much. I can't say that I am thrilled with it
> and
> I have to decide, because I have 30 days to return it. I will
> probably
> keep it. It is just as good as the Headset's Inc add on and alot
> cleaner
> and if you add the headset plus the add on kit you are close to what I
> paid.
>
> I have used the lightspeed and it is probably better Noise Canceling
> but it
> is an all plastic and would not hold up to the abuse that I give a
> headset.
>
> The short story is that the Bose is twice as good as any of the others
> I
> have used and costs twice as much. My name is "Rozendaal" and my
> people
> come from the land of wooden shoes and Iron heads like the "Van
> Grunsven's"
> and I am too dutch (read tight$$$) to give Dr. Bose a grand.
>
> IMHO
> Tailwinds, N240 the pink panther
> Doug Rozendaal
> Dougr(at)netins.net
> http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
>
> ----------
> > From: Alan Carroll <geology.wisc.edu!carroll(at)matronics.com>
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RV-List: Dave Clark ANR
> > Date: Thursday, August 28, 1997 10:00 AM
> >
>
> >
> > Has anyone had experience with the Dave Clark ANR headsets?
> (H10-13X, I
> > think). How well do they work, and how do they compare to other
> options?
> > I've used an H10-20 headset for 10 years with no problems, but would
> like
> > ANR.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> > Alan Carroll
> > RV-8 #80177 (Wings)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--=_ORCL_48202711_0_11919709121407520--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Tool for Rod End Bearings |
charset="iso-8859-1"
I used an old socket (a deep socket, about a =BE" or so) and filed a =
slot
wide enough to slip onto the rod end. Actually I made two, one for
larger rod ends and one for smaller. Tony B illustrated this homemade
tool in one of his books.
Steve Soule
< ... Awhile back someone on the list was selling a home-brew
tool to screw in=20
rod-end bearings. Are you still there and how's your stock? OK
to let=20
me know off list. I can't believe I'm far enough along to have
a use for=20
such a tool...>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Flight Manual or POH |
>I'm very interested in finding out what content most of you have in your RV
>POHs. I think that those of you who have created such things on a word
>processor might want to post them to the RV-List...
I've actually given serious consideration to publishing an RV-6/6A POH.
I've written and published software user manuals, so I have the tools,
skills, and the connections in the printing industry.
I have several POH's for production aircraft on my shelf, so stealing
content from them would be easy. I would also include George Orndorff's
COndition Inspection checklist.
If it were the 'fill-in-the-blanks' type of document (where you fill in
your own W&B and performance data, I could probably get a few hundred
printed and bound pretty cheaply.
And I can hear it now "What about us RV-3, RV-4, and RV-8 guys?" depending
upon demand, one the -6/6A POH is done, it should be pretty straightforward
to rework it for the others.
If there is sufficient interest, then I could proceed. I expect that the
finished product would cost somewhere around $20-$30 each.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
cowling
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV Fly-In at Burlington, CO |
| From: | rodwoodard(at)juno.com (Rodney W. Woodard) |
Hi Gene:
I think you'll just pay your $15 at the registration table when you get
to Burlington. I'm going and nobody's asked me for money yet.
For anybody who wants the information....
Hotel: Comfort Inn ~$60.00/night 719-346-7676
Burlington RV-contact: John Stewart (RV6A) 719-346-8741
For anybody who just wants anecdotal information about what went on last
year from nobody official, you're welcome to call me. I'm out and about
quite a bit so the best thing to do is just leave me a message with your
telephone number and let me call you back. My voice mail can be reached
at 800-585-7505. Ignore the admonishments re: not leaving a message after
hours and leave your message anytime. I'll be paged automatically and
will call you back as quick as I can.
Rod Woodard
Loveland, Colorado
RV-8, #80033
writes:
>
>
><< Just a reminder that the Burlington, Colorado RV Fly-In is coming
> up very soon! It is September 20th and 21st. >>
>When do we pay the $15 and to whom?
>Gene Francis cafgef(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tool for Rod End Bearings |
I got mine from Avery Tools 1-800-652-8379 part#408 $10.00
Regards
Tom Velvick - Phoenix, AZ
rver(at)caljet.com
rv-6a left wing ribs
>Awhile back someone on the list was selling a home-brew tool to screw in
>rod-end bearings. Are you still there and how's your stock? OK to let
>me know off list. I can't believe I'm far enough along to have a use for
>such a tool.
>
>Bill Watson
>Rear Wing Spars
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6160hp(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | LP Aero advice sheets |
I think I'm giving a canopy building talk at RV seminar in Oswego NY in a
couple of weeks. I shall give a printed copy to Van's Bill Benidict there
too.
If you have a fax viewer, I have the 5 pages scaned in on disc, and would
e'mai it to any interested. Note: they will come with a xx.awd file
extensionto an e'mail.
Send requests to
McManD(at)aol.com
Respectfully David McManmon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Benua <danb(at)synopsys.com> |
| Subject: | For Sale: Lyc Fuel Pump |
For Sale:
New Lycoming LW15472 engine-driven fuel pump. This pump was
removed from a brand new O-360-A1A and has only been operated
during the engine's factory test run. I'm converting the
engine to fuel injection and cannot use this low pressure
pump. $90 includes shipping.
If interested, email danb(at)synopsys.com. Do NOT reply to the rv-list!
- Dan Benua
RV-6A (Engine Hook-Up Phase)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Mack" <donmack(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tool for Rod End Bearings |
charset="us-ascii"
There is one made by George O. in the Avery catalog
Don Mack RV-6A Skinning the beast
donmack(at)flash.net
http://www.flash.net/~donmack
>
>Awhile back someone on the list was selling a home-brew tool to screw in
>rod-end bearings. Are you still there and how's your stock? OK to let
>me know off list. I can't believe I'm far enough along to have a use for
>such a tool.
>
>Bill Watson
>Rear Wing Spars
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
> I have talked to the FAA about an inspection. They told me today (after
> mailing all paperwork to them priority mail last week) it will be at
> least October or later before they can make it to me. I called a DAR 70
> miles away and he can be here Saturday. It will then take a few days to
> process the paperwork before I can fly it. (if he doesn't find anything
> wrong) His fee is 450.00. I would rather not wait until Oct. or Nov.
> so I will pay the bucks. Is this in line with what others have had to
> do? The FAA man told me matter-of-factly that homebuilts were at the
> bottom of his list of priorities. I love that attitude. See ya.
Sandy McClure is a DAR in Virgina who charges $250 plus 31
cents/mile. He is at 540-894-0648.
Tim
------------------------------------
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or
timrv6a(at)iname.com
------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca (joehine) |
| Subject: | Re: Aeromatic prop response |
>
>Apologies for length of response--I tried to keep as short as possible.
>
Steve don't apologise about length, when they are this interesting I for one
don't notice the length.
Joe
C-FYTQ RV4 - flying!! first flight 97-08-17
joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca 13 James St.
506-452-1072 Home Douglas, NB
506-452-3495 Work Canada, E3A 7Z2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Need new squeezer source |
>
>It would appear that Action Air Parts has run out of CP 214-C squeezers.
>He doesn't know when or if he will get any more. Does anyone know of
>another source for used/rebuild squeezers. I just can't justify almost
>$500 for one.
Bill,
I have 3 sets of the aligator type, $250 per ...... Don't know how much
interest in alligator style although these actully look like horizontal "c"
sqeezers. Let me know if there is any interest. Al Columbus, Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Fever and Cure solicitation |
<< The major expenses come at the end of the project, i.e. the engine, prop
and instruments. >>
IMO you probably won't be able to wait till the end for these. You'll need
them about halfway thru the project.
You'll need the engine (or a run out block with crank and maybe a c/s prop
hub) strapped up to your mount before working with the finishing kit (which
IS the last kit but far from the end of the project, time wise) and probably
will need to incorporate the instruments or some portion thereof well before
the end (before planning your panel).
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | RV Flight Manual or POH |
You can count on me to purchase one.
Les
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Dave Barnhart
Sent: Friday, September 12, 1997 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Flight Manual or POH
If there is sufficient interest, then I could proceed. I expect that the
finished product would cost somewhere around $20-$30 each.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
cowling
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Morrissey, John" <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au> |
| Subject: | Tool for Rod End Bearings |
charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Bill,
All I did was grab one of my old sockets (from and old cheap set the
kids gave me years ago !)and slotted it to fit the rod-end bearings. =
=BD "
or 5/8" will do!=20
Cheers
John Morrissey
Awhile back someone on the list was selling a home-brew tool to
screw in=20
rod-end bearings. Are you still there and how's your stock? OK
to let=20
me know off list. I can't believe I'm far enough along to have
a use for=20
such a tool.
Bill Watson
Rear Wing Spars
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jacquelyn eastburn" <jimnjax(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Fever and Cure solicitation |
Fred, you learn so much when you build the empanage yourself.
jimnjax(at)worldnet.att.net
Hillsboro Oregon
RV - 8 Ser. No. 80079
----------
> From: Fred Steadman <fastlane.net!fstead(at)matronics.com>
>
> Is it the drill to build the empanage kit if you're not sure you will
> like building, or buy a built up empanage kit if you are?
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Fever and Cure solicitation |
I do not understand this conversation. There are cheaper ways to get an
airplane than building one---just go buy one built but you will not gain the
satisfaction of having done it yourself nor the pride. Van has plenty of
brand new empenage kits waiting for a builder like Mr. Fever------he should
just buy one and get started. Most of but not all of the started kits I have
seen would require considerable rework taking more time and money than to
just start new. The new prepunch stuff is wonderful---why buy an older kit
that may not have the latest mods. RV-4 2280
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: circuit breaker switches |
Gil Alexander wrote:
>
>
> *** snip ***
I had a
> >breaker trip one night due to my heater hose coming loose from the
> >firewall and falling on my master solenoid connection. The vibration
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Guys,
> ... this is why you need to add insulating boots to all exposed
> electrical power connections. The correct aircraft part for this
> application is a MS2571 "Terminal Nipple" for less than $2 and has a
> negligible weight.
>
> I'm sorry, but I put this argument into the "lack of details"
> category, not the "breaker is better than a fuse" category. If I had been
> performing EAA Technical Inspections on this RV, I would have noted a lack
> of insulation.
>
> .... Gil (pay attention to details) Alexander
>
> EAA Technical Counsellor, Chapter 40, Northridge, CA
Well, Gil, I can't argue with that one little bit. I overlooked putting
the boots on the solenoid terminals. Besides, you'd think that since
the solenoids were way up there on the firewall away from everything,
what could possibly go wronk....but I still like the breakers!
Denny (red-faced) Jackson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jbalbierer(at)nysyr.ang.af.mil |
| Subject: | Tool for Rod End Bearings |
This tool is so easy to make:
1. Take an old socket that fits over the bearing width but not the length.
2. Cut the socket with a cut-off wheel so that the length ends of the
bearing extend out of the socket when it slides over the bearing( sort of
"U" shape cuts on both ends of the socket)
3. File down the sharp edges and duct tape the edges if you like.
4. And you have your bearing tool.
John Balbierer, RV-6
Syracuse
-------------
Original Text
________________________________________________________________________________
AM:
Folks,
Awhile back someone on the list was selling a home-brew tool to screw in
rod-end bearings. Are you still there and how's your stock? OK to let
me know off list. I can't believe I'm far enough along to have a use for
such a tool.
Bill Watson
Rear Wing Spars
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
Dave:
I have a table that I have used for years to build RC models on
that is made from 2 core doors that are butted up to each other. Gives
me a large, wide work surface and it is nice and flat. Ust build
yourself a frame out of 2x4's to set them on.
I have started my 6a empenage, and plan to build the rear spar on
my "fixture" (its really not a jig!) as it is made from 3 laminations
of 2x4's that are resined together. Really straight and stable.
Good luck with your project! The hardest part is getting started!
Jeff Orear Empenage started 6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Rod End Bearing Tool |
I simply used a 6" length of thick wall PVC tubing, I think it was
around 3/4" OD. Filed two notches in one end so it would slip over the
bearing. At the other end simply drill a small hole in order to stick a
screwdriver through in order to apply more torque to the bearing. It
worked fine. I think I may have had to use a small hose clamp on the
notched end to keep it from spreading. A ground out socket would not
have this problem.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Cole <cole(at)iei.net> |
| Subject: | Landing Lights and Pitot wiring |
Is there a problem with grounding to the spar and running just a hot wire from
the panel or should I plan on running two wires per device.
Thanks for advice.
Steve Cole
Indianapolis
RV-6 skinning left wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DAVID STRATTON" <DSTRAT(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | engine mount bracket cracks |
Has anyone had any experience repairing cracked lower eng mount brackets
I bought a lovely 180 hp rv-4 that was completed in 1991 with 255 hours on the
airframe. I have had it not quite two years and put on over three hundred
hours to date. In the midst of performing this years annual I found two
rivets with the head cracked off under the firewall, and this lead to
discovering two half inch cracks radiating fromtheengine mount bolt hole. The
aircraft has had extremely gentle use while I have had it except for steady
and regular aerobatic use. Is there any way to repair this with out removing
the engine or completely replacing the bracket??????????????????????????
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Thomas Velvick
Sent: Friday, September 12, 1997 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Tool for Rod End Bearings
I got mine from Avery Tools 1-800-652-8379 part#408 $10.00
Regards
Tom Velvick - Phoenix, AZ
rver(at)caljet.com
rv-6a left wing ribs
>Awhile back someone on the list was selling a home-brew tool to screw in
>rod-end bearings. Are you still there and how's your stock? OK to let
>me know off list. I can't believe I'm far enough along to have a use for
>such a tool.
>
>Bill Watson
>Rear Wing Spars
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com> |
I am getting close to installing an 0-360 in my RV-6 and I'm ready to
order and install the necessary controls for the throttle, prop and
mixture. I'll be mounting them horizontally across on an angle hanging
below the instrument panel. My question is what spacing apart should I
set them at? Too close and they would be hard to use, but I want them
as close as practicle. I would appreciate comments from those that are
flying with this configuration.
While we are on the subject of controls I would also like to request
comments on were is the best place to buy the Blue vernier prop control
and red vernier mixture control? I like them better than what Van's
offers but they are a little more costly.
Thanks for your help,
Frank Smidler
RV-6, working on sliding canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Hartmann <hartmann(at)sound.net> |
>
>Does anyone have any info on the rv4 crash last year in IN that involved
>the in flight seperation of the stabilizer?
________________________________________________________________________________
Accident occurred SEP-17-96 at MUNCIE, IN
Aircraft: Thocker RV-4, registration: N952JT
The lower rudder attach fitting bolt was missing at the impact site, and
there was no evidence that the bolt was in place at the time of the accident.
Probable Cause was the in-flight disconnection of the horizontal and
vertical stabilizer forward attachments.
________________________________________________________________________________
There are hundreds of these things flying and being flogged about
mercilessly by pilots far less experienced than the pilot you mention. It
seems that with the amount of testing done on this type by hordes of amateur
builders and inexperienced pilots, a basic flaw in the design is unlikely.
As in everything about their aircraft, Van's seems to be taking an
appropriately conservative approach. Perhaps there are some areas on the
aircraft where you can't leave out half of the attach hardware and still
expect to meet design goals.
Build well, fly safe.
- Mike
hartmann(at)sound.net
http://www.sound.net/~hartmann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV Flight Manual or POH |
<< I've actually given serious consideration to publishing an RV-6/6A POH.
I've written and published software user manuals, so I have the tools,
skills, and the connections in the printing industry. >>
Dave-
Please forgive the stupid question, but aside from the density altitude,
performance charts/graphs, what other truly useful non-textual info should be
contained in a good POH? What would be good section headings and/or what
subject matter should be covered in the compleat (sic) POH?
It seems to me that a posting to the RV-List by someone who has done a good
job in this particular area would provide a reasonable starting point for a
POH, since everyone here has word processors for tailoring a POH to their
individual a/c and needs.
I have spent most of my time in simple homebuilts (Kitfoxes, etc.) and it's
been some time since I rented a spam can or perused their POH for these
details.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cowling Inside Treatment |
What finish is recommended for the inside of the cowlings? As I see it, the
simplest approach would be to leave the finish au naturel, but painting with
outside color or Zolatone are also options.
What do most of you do? How about you OSH grand champions?
TIA,
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Steadman <fstead(at)fastlane.net> |
Chris Hill wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Chris:
> >
> >Don't even go there. I now have a little over 200 hours on my -4 which
> >puts me down to about $180/hr, not counting setting aside money for an
> >engine overhaul ten years down the road. Build and fly for fun, not
> >profit.
> >
> >DJ
> >
> How does it come out so high? I've been eyeing the RV-8 just
> waiting for the right time to start. I had figured that not
> counting the cost of the plane that you would easily come down
> to the $60/hr range for fuel, engine overhaul fund, and insurance.
> Of course tiedown/hanger fees are there to but they vary widely.
> In the end I just don't see how it couldn't be at least as
> inexpensive as renting a 172.
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Chris Hill |
> Raytheon | "The box said 'Windows '95 or better',
> Email: hilc(at)dlep1.itg.ti.com | so I bought a Mac."
> Phone: (214) 462-4387 |
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
Sounds like he may be counting the cost of building in the $180. This
would be correct if you figured the plane would have $0 scrap value
after you finished flying it for 200 hours.
I would probably opt for an approach whereby I'd consider the cost of
building/buying as seperate from operating costs. I would, however, put
the reserve for overhaul into operating costs.
If he has an 0320, other airplanes with that engine can be operated in
the $30 to $35 / hour range.
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Chris,
First off, I'm a lower-time pilot than you: I've completed ground school.
However, I'm just as hooked as you and for the same reasons.
I've got the tail complete so now I need to make the decision of tail dragger
vs. nose dragger and, like you, just like the looks of the 6 more...with a
tip-up canopy. Problem though, is that my wife has very poor upper-body
strength and found it very difficult to exit the 6/tip-up because of the seat
angle and no hand-hold.
Soooooo, I've had to temper my enthusiasm with a dose of practicality. In
discussing the subject with her we drew a parallel with buying a car: what
you want ( a two-door sports car) has to be weighed against what you'll be
satisfied with over the long run ( a station wagon to accomodate the 2.1 kids
and the dog). While the later may seem relatively boring, how enjoyable /
practical / realistic would it be to leave the kids and dog at home (hmmm,
then again....).
Of course this is not the safety issue you were concerned with unless you
factor in your significant other's state of mind relative to your
relationship.
Cheers and go for it.
Bob Fritz
San Mateo, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV Safety: Accident Rates, Part 2 |
Sure, I'd like to see it.
Bob Fritz
QmaxLLC(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: building table |
| From: | "William H. Watson" <watson1(at)alink.net> |
I built a 3 x 6 foot table which rests on a pair of Costco/Price Club
heavy duty saw horses. The table itself is a laminate of 1/2 inch CDX
plywood and 5/8 particle board (to keep the weight down and add
strength). I added 2 x 2's as perimeter and cross bracing to keep it flat
(very important). The height is fine, etc., but next time, I would add
two angle irons length wise, as it does sag a tad. If you want to go the
distance, put a coat of water based poly on it to seal the particle
board. The whole thing comes apart when you don't need it.
Oh yes, one final thing, in the middle/front, cut out a slot for the
Avery back riveting bucking plate. Save the cutout; insert the plate
only when needed.
>
>I am setting up my garage to build an RV-8. I have read many books
>including the series by 'Bengelis'. Does anyone have any special
>reccommendations as to the form or length of the table used for building?
William H. Watson
watson1(at)alink.net
H: 415 254-1656
W: 408 553-4225
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
| Subject: | LP Aero advice sheets |
Could you fax me a copy?
415-493-1290
Attn: Mitchell Faatz (at work)
Otherwise, is there any other format you can export to? WMF? GIF?
MSWord?
> ----------
> From: aol.com!RV6160hp(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, September 12, 1997 5:46 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Cc: billb(at)europa.com
> Subject: RV-List: LP Aero advice sheets
>
>
> I think I'm giving a canopy building talk at RV seminar in Oswego NY
> in a
> couple of weeks. I shall give a printed copy to Van's Bill Benidict
> there
> too.
>
> If you have a fax viewer, I have the 5 pages scaned in on disc, and
> would
> e'mai it to any interested. Note: they will come with a xx.awd
> file
> extensionto an e'mail.
>
> Send requests to
>
> McManD(at)aol.com
>
> Respectfully David McManmon
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Flight Manual or POH |
>If there is sufficient interest, then I could proceed. I expect that the
>finished product would cost somewhere around $20-$30 each.
>
>Best Regards,
>Dave Barnhart
>rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
>cowling
I would be interested Dave.
Have a good day!
Denny,
RV-6 (R)N641DH
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Control Cables for RV-6/6A |
After a little head scratching and a few telephone calls, I believe that I
have found an easy way to get the proper cable ends on ACS controls (available
from Aircraft Spruce) to fit the throttle/mixture and C/S governor cable
mounting brackets from Van's. A little background for those who have not
passed this way before:
1. Van's brackets are made to use throttle and governor cables with threaded
conduit end fittings (the mixture mount is flat for a clamp on). The cables
made by Cablecraft that Van's stocks have large (2") black indented knobs. I
want to use the FAA standard configuration for cockpit control knobs (shapes
and colors) that ACS and Cablecraft both manufacture.
2. On my first RV-6A, I modified a Piper throttle/mixure cable mount that
used the grooved conduit end fitting on the throttle cable that is standard on
the Cablecraft Quality Aircraft Control Cables. Now their 10-32 threaded end
style cables, with bulkhead fittings on the end, are listed as an option on
the Cablecraft order form and will fit the brackets from Van's. So, if you
like these cables, it's not a problem to order them.
3. Cablecraft also has conduit clamps to fit any of their cable ends. They
are listed in their catalog CAI-10 2/96 which stocking dealers should have.
Check the yellow pages under "controls" for a local supplier or contact
Cablecraft at Tel 206-475-1080 or FAX 206-474-1623. I was also told by one
dealer that they would soon be able to make up the aircraft style cables to
order like they do the commercial ones like Van's carries.
However, I prefer the looks of the ACS cables and this is how I was told to
order them from Aircraft Spruce.
1. Use the procedures outlined in their catalog for "How to Order Controls"
for Stock or Special-Length Controls (page 140, 1997 catalog).
2. Specify that you want the A-1550 end (7/16-20 threaded bulkhead fitting).
3. The price should be the same as the stock or special-length controls, not
the custom controls, so you might want to verify what they are going to charge
you.
4. If there is any question about this, tell them that Bob at ACS Products,
their manufacturing division, said that this was okay to do.
I have not tried this because I don't yet have my engine nor horizontally
mounted control panel installed so I can't determine the exact length of
cables I need. I also am not exactly sure where to penetrate the firewall for
the governor cable. So if anyone has any suggestions on that, or the length
of cables to use with the horizontal control panel, I would appreciate hearing
them and also, the results of anyone ordering the cables using the procedures
I have described.
Hope this helps someone trying to complete this task now and that it gives a
little more info to consider for those who will be doing it in the future.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/finishing a lot of details
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flyinghi(at)worldnet.att.net |
| Subject: | Re: RV Flight Manual or POH |
----------
> From: Dave Barnhart <a.crl.com!barnhart(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Flight Manual or POH
> Date: Friday, September 12, 1997 9:30 PM
>
>
> >
>
>
>
>
> If there is sufficient interest, then I could proceed. I expect that the
> finished product would cost somewhere around $20-$30 each.
Put me down for one, also. Make sure and notify if you decide to proceed.
Regards,
Charles Golden
6A SN24765 N609CG
Engine
>
> Best Regards,
> Dave Barnhart
> rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
> cowling
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flyinghi(at)worldnet.att.net |
| Subject: | Re: Need new squeezer source |
Bill and all:
One good source (at least for me) for most tools is Texas Air Tool in San
Antonio, Texas. Their phone number is 210 675-6568 and the guys name is
Jim Smith. He is located at 9600 Dugas in San Antonio 78245. He sells some
new but mostly used government surplus tools including rivet guns, clecos,
squeezers, bucking bars, etc. I outfitted myself for less than $400 for
the entire list of tools that Van's recommends. Everything he sells is
warranted and I have not had to send anything back to him.
Charles Golden
SN 24765 N609CG
6A Engine (Belted Air Chevy)
----------
> From: Bill Pace <adnc.com!wbpace(at)matronics.com>
> To: aol.com!JRWillJR(at)matronics.com
<"rv-list(at)matronics.com"(at)gemini.adnc.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Need new squeezer source
> Date: Friday, September 12, 1997 7:25 PM
>
>
> It would appear that Action Air Parts has run out of CP 214-C squeezers.
> He doesn't know when or if he will get any more. Does anyone know of
> another source for used/rebuild squeezers. I just can't justify almost
> $500 for one.
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flyinghi(at)worldnet.att.net |
| Subject: | Re: Need new squeezer source |
Bill and all:
One good source (at least for me) for most tools is Texas Air Tool in San
Antonio, Texas. Their phone number is 210 675-6568 and the guys name is
Jim Smith. He is located at 9600 Dugas in San Antonio 78245. He sells some
new but mostly used government surplus tools including rivet guns, clecos,
squeezers, bucking bars, etc. I outfitted myself for less than $400 for
the entire list of tools that Van's recommends. Everything he sells is
warranted and I have not had to send anything back to him.
Charles Golden
SN 24765 N609CG
6A Engine (Belted Air Chevy)
----------
> From: Bill Pace <adnc.com!wbpace(at)matronics.com>
> To: aol.com!JRWillJR(at)matronics.com
<"rv-list(at)matronics.com"(at)gemini.adnc.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Need new squeezer source
> Date: Friday, September 12, 1997 7:25 PM
>
>
> It would appear that Action Air Parts has run out of CP 214-C squeezers.
> He doesn't know when or if he will get any more. Does anyone know of
> another source for used/rebuild squeezers. I just can't justify almost
> $500 for one.
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fred Steadman <fstead(at)fastlane.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Fever and Cure solicitation |
jacquelyn eastburn wrote:
>
> Fred, you learn so much when you build the empanage yourself.
>
I would guess that is true. I'm merely curious as to what happens to
all the empanages that were built by people who ultimately decided not
to continue.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Flight Manual or POH |
>If there is sufficient interest, then I could proceed. I expect that the
>finished product would cost somewhere around $20-$30 each.
>
>Best Regards,
>Dave Barnhart
>rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
>cowling
Put me down for one.
Tom Velvick
tvelvick(at)caljet.com
RV-6a wing ribs
Phoenix, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JimNolan(at)mail.kconline.com |
Michael Angiulo,
I'll tell you my experience flying my RV-4 for the first time and
you be the judge as to how difficult it is to transition from a
tricycle gear to a taildragger.
I had 250 hrs. total in Cessna 150's and Piper 140's. I had six
hrs. dual instruction in a Luscumbe before the flight.(never by
myself) The only thing I had going for me was that I had been taught
to fly by a taildragger pilot that insisted I full stall the airplane
when I landed. In 250 hrs. I had kept up that practice.
When it was time to fly the RV-4, I gave my billfold to my son,
told him I loved him and tell his brother and my wife the same. I had
only been told horror stories about taildraggers and didn't know if I
was going to come back or not. I eased the throttle in so slow that I
was flying before I got the throttle in half way. The landing was a
grease job and the rollout was uneventful. I used common sense when I
flew (no strong crosswinds, no gusty conditions) There's never been
anything special about me or my abilities, so I feel if I can do it
anyone can.
I will give you a piece of advice for what it's worth. When they
tell you to high speed taxi the airplane with the tail up in the
air, don't do it. The plane is made to fly or land. Not to do both at
the same time. It's just fine to taxi like that if you are already a
seasoned taildragger pilot, but not if you're just learning. After I
bought my second prop( before the airplane ever flew) I was given
this advice by an older gentleman that claimed most homebuilt
accidents are from high speed taxi tests and builders just learning
to fly them. In my case, he was right (where had he been when I
needed his advice)
I'll end this by saying I've got over 600 hrs. on that plane and
haven't put a ding in it yet (knock on wood). I've landed in some of
the godaufullest wind conditions you can imagine. Some were not the
prettest landings but all of them have been safe landings. Good luck-
don't let'em scare you off. Jim Nolan N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
I forgot to say he told me i need a poh. Does anyone make a legal one
for the rv-4?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
Okay. Here is a post-inspection report for anyone who cares to read it.
The DAR arrived at 10 a.m. He left at 1:30 p.m.. I did not get a
certificate. My prop bolts had 4 washers under each nut. I really
needed only 2 so the nut wouldn't run past the threads, but then I would
have had about 3/8" threads showing past the nut. He said get the
correct length bolt so I only have one washer. He said one washer is
the limit. I couldn't find any where in the faa mechanic guideline book
where it said how many washers were legal, or how much bolt sticking out
past the nut is legal. He didn't recognize the marking on the head of
the bolts holding the spacer and flywheel to the prop flange so he said
change those. On the smaller outboard bolts going through the spar
center section ((3/16" bolts) I had 3 washers on 4 of them because they
were too long. He said get the right length bolts. I had the upper
spar center section bolts facing forward so as not to damage my seat on
the threads. He told me to turn them around. On the aileron hinges I
only had spacers on the inboard hinge bolts to keep them from moving
sideways. Well, I have to put spacers on the outboard end also, even
though it is solid just the way it is. I had all the floors up so he
could see the control linkage beneath them. I had to remove the flap
control so I could get the floor boards up. He wanted to see the flap
controls work so Next time he conmes back I'll have to put all that back
in while he waits so he can see it all. Then he moved on to the engine
compartment. He said it all looks okay, but then he made me write down
the part numbers and serial numbers of all the accessories on the
engine, including the harrison oil cooler (from an apache, i believe).
He is going to get a list of all the ad's on them So i can have them
checked. The log says all ad's have been complied with, but they are in
the mechanics file cabinet in Texas, and the dar wants to see them
here. Does anyone know the real rules on bolt length and washer usage?
I need to find out so I can do what is really legal, not just do what
the dar wants. I have to be able to prove i'm right if I don't do what
he told me, though. I'm just very aggravated. Oh yeah, when I first
called him for the inspection he asked me what kind of wood i used for
the plane. So if anyone knows this info and can show me a copy of it
for proof to show him, I would appreciate it. I paid him 450.00 and he
went home. Thanks. I wanna fly.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca (joehine) |
| Subject: | rough running at certain RPM's |
Hello List.
While doing the flight testing and flying off the restrictions of My new
RV4, I have noticed a problem with the engine that I haven't been able to
correct as yet. At first I was writing it off to a new engine and fouling
the plugs, but I think it is a bit more than that. At around 1600-1900 RPM,
the engine surges about 100 rpm, ie doesent seem to want to run at a
constant RPM. I don't get the feeling it is about to quit or anything and
it seems to be happy at RPMs above and below this but in the landing phase
of a flight it is a bit disconcerting.
I seem to remember some posts about a problem some carberators had with this
kind of thing after have the one piece venturie (sp) installed as per the AD
that was issued. I have searched the RVlist data bank and can't seem to
find what I am looking for.
Any idea's
Thanks in advance
Joe
C-FYTQ RV4 - flying!! first flight 97-08-17
joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca 13 James St.
506-452-1072 Home Douglas, NB
506-452-3495 Work Canada, E3A 7Z2
________________________________________________________________________________
Chris Hill wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Chris:
> >
> >Don't even go there. I now have a little over 200 hours on my -4 which
> >puts me down to about $180/hr, not counting setting aside money for an
> >engine overhaul ten years down the road. Build and fly for fun, not
> >profit.
> >
> >DJ
> >
> How does it come out so high? I've been eyeing the RV-8 just
> waiting for the right time to start. I had figured that not
> counting the cost of the plane that you would easily come down
> to the $60/hr range for fuel, engine overhaul fund, and insurance.
> Of course tiedown/hanger fees are there to but they vary widely.
> In the end I just don't see how it couldn't be at least as
> inexpensive as renting a 172.
>
airframe, engine, instruments = $30,000/215 hrs = $140/hr
insurance + hangar = $2400/yr/100 hr/yr = $24/hr
fuel + oil = $16/hr
$140 + $24 + $16 = $180/hr
It adds up! Next year I'll be down below $150/hr. Gettin' cheap!
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tool for Rod End Bearings |
A cleco pliers works well for screwing in rod end bearings. Just be sure=
to cusion the bearing with a shop rag or similar.
Brian Eckstein
6A
----------
>
> Folks,
>
> Awhile back someone on the list was selling a home-brew tool to screw =
in
> rod-end bearings. Are you still there and how's your stock? OK to let
> me know off list. I can't believe I'm far enough along to have a use =
for
> such a tool.
>
> Bill Watson
> Rear Wing Spars
>
>
>
|
|
|
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Control spacing |
<< I am getting close to installing an 0-360 in my RV-6 and I'm ready to
order and install the necessary controls for the throttle, prop and
mixture. I'll be mounting them horizontally across on an angle hanging
below the instrument panel. My question is what spacing apart should I
set them at?>>
Placing them on 3" centers is just about right IMO. My angle is 1.5"H x
7.5"W x .125"thk.
<< While we are on the subject of controls I would also like to request
comments on were is the best place to buy the Blue vernier prop control
and red vernier mixture control?>>
ACS if you want the teleflex type sheath ends, Chief if you want the
Cablecraft threaded type sheath ends.
Check the archives (search on controls) for more complete discussion of this
topic.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by InfoAve.Net
| From: | GIBBONSR.FTC-I.NET(at)InfoAve.Net (RB Gibbons) |
| Subject: | Re: Pitot Phenolic Connector |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Lights and Pitot wiring |
<< Is there a problem with grounding to the spar and running just a hot wire
from the panel or should I plan on running two wires per device. >>
If that spar isn't a good high capacity low impedance path to ground with all
the bolts attaching it to the fuselage, I would be extremely surprised. IMO
let the airframe be the local ground and run just the power wire.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcus Cooper" <mcooper(at)cnetech.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6 Fuselage Jig Wanted |
I am just about ready to start on the fuselage for my RV-6 and wondered if
anyone
in the Central California area (I'm in Hanford, just south of Fresno) has a
jig they
no longer need. Please send any info on location and price.
Thanks,
Marcus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Les Rowles <lmrowles(at)netspace.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Flight Manual or POH |
>
>>I'm very interested
Also put me down please.
Cheers Les Rowles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough) |
I am sorry to have to report to the list a crash of an RV6 in the Toronto area,
resulting in the
death of the test pilot.
It was been flown for the first time by a very experienced pilot (not the builder)
when the engine
apparently failed at about 400 ft. The pilot tried to turn back and stalled/spinned.
I'm not releasing the pilot or owners names as I don't think that is appropriate,
plus, the TV news
is not releasing them yet.
The test pilot had succesfully done first flights on many RVs in the area, including
mine. He was a
very well known and liked figure in the community and will be sorely missed by
many.
No one can understand why he turned back at such low altitude other than the plane
was such a
beauty he didn't want to scratch it up by landing in one of the many fields surrounding
the
airfield.
Once again, the message has been driven home hard...DON'T TURN BACK!
A very sad Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV Flight Manual or POH |
I would be very interested in seeing a preview posted here.
However, I thought the POH was the summary of the initial flight
testing....you know, stall speed, best landing speed, etc. And in that each
RV is a bit different due to each builder's skill then would not there be
sufficient variation in performance to warrant a different POH for each?
Of course that could be covered by publishing a fill-in-the-blank manual.
Still, I'd like to see what you have you mind.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lm4(at)juno.com (Larry Mac Donald) |
Snip>>Hi Chris,
>I've got the tail complete so now I need to make the decision of tail
dragger vs. nose dragger and, like you, just like the looks of the 6
more...with a tip-up canopy.
> Problem though, is that my wife has very difficult to exit the
6/tip-up because of the seat angle and no hand-hold.
>factor in your significant other's state of mind relative to your
relationship.
Bob Fritz<| Date: | Sep 14, 1997 |
| From: | Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | RV Flight Manual or POH |
Les:
Thank you for your encouragment about the POH. I'll probably start by
posting a proposed table of contents on the RV-list in a couple of weeks.
Projects like this always take longer than expected. I'll keep your email
message and let you know when it's done.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
The 76 model N Skyhawk POH was written in the GAMMA (General Aviation
Manufacturer's ) format and is an excellent example of a POH. It is
unfortunately much too voluminous for me to expand upon here. I suggest
getting a copy (flight schools sell them that's were I got mine). It is
much more comprehensive than the 75 model M Skyhawk' s POH, the one I own.
I think the time to begin writing the POH is while you are building. The
maintenance sections should be written as you come across little details
that are non-obvious and easy to forget. An example is the Seastrom washers
required on the aileron bellcrank.
POH Skyhawk Model 172N about 90 pages chock full of useful information!
Inside Cover: Performance Specs
1. General
2. Limitations
3. Emergency Procedures
4. Normal Procedures
5. Performance
6. Weight and Balance/ Equipment List
7. Airplane and Systems Descriptions
8. Airplane Handling, Service and Maintenance
9. Supplements (Optional Description & Operating Procedures)
Dennis 6A fuselaage out of jig -- building, not writing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
Dennis, unless your RV is totally trashed and has no salvage value after the
215 hours you have flown it, then your formula is flawed!
Les
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Dennis Jackson
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 1997 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: $$$
airframe, engine, instruments = $30,000/215 hrs = $140/hr
insurance + hangar = $2400/yr/100 hr/yr = $24/hr
fuel + oil = $16/hr
$140 + $24 + $16 = $180/hr
It adds up! Next year I'll be down below $150/hr. Gettin' cheap!
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <glenn(at)chocolatetruffles.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6 Manual Elevator Trim Cable Routing |
Hi,
RE: RV-6 Manual Elevator Trim Cable Routing.
Ref: DWG 27,30,32
I am going to be routing the elevator trim cable soon. On the F-606
bulkhead, the hole for the cable is drawn 1.5" off centerline. At this
position, the cable would interfere with the F-629 Rib Assy.
Should the cable get routed to the left or right of the F-629 Rib
asssembly, or is there another alternative?
Thanks in advance,
Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
Michael, I think that when the gentleman asked what kind of wood your RV was
made of, I would have gotten a clue to get a different inspector. However, I
do agree with a most of the findings.
Regarding bolt identification, lengths and washers, general information can be
found in AC43-13-1A and the Aircraft Standards Handbook. Also, a good
reference is Tony Bingelis' Sport Aircraft Builder book which states that two
washers is the most that should used under a nut or bolt head, otherwise you
should get a different length bolt. AC 43-13-1A states that bolts of slightly
greater length than the grip length may be used provided WASHERS are placed
under the nut or bolthead, which would mean that more than one washer is
acceptable. It also states that threads should extend a minimum of 1/32"
beyond the nut. My personal rule is a minimum of 1 thread showing, preferably
three, absolute maximum of five, and not more than two washers on either side
of the assembly, for a maximum of four washers total, but I don't remember the
source(s) where I got this.
I don't believe that there is an absolute rule on which way the bolt has to
face in the structure although it is general practice to do it like the
inspector says.
On the RV-6A, this is impossible to do on many of the spar bolts because of
the landing gear mounts.
I agree with the inspector on the aileron hinge spacers, flap control
operation, and also that you should have the engine log book available as long
as the data plate is attached that shows it as certificated, which also means
that it should comply with all ADs issued and should be recently noted
accordingly.
I would not have been inclined to pay him anything until I got the
Airworthiness Certificate in my hands, but that's something that probably
should have been negotiated beforehand.
I'm sure that a lot of the list subscribers appreciate your reporting of your
experiences, as I do. Some of us will undoubtedly benefit therefrom. Best
wishes in resolving this issue to a successful outcome. Sorry I don't have
more definitive references but maybe someone on the list does.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Michael C. Lott
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 1997 4:00 PM
Subject: RV-List: inspection rv-4
Okay. Here is a post-inspection report for anyone who cares to read it.
I paid him 450.00 and he went home. Thanks. I wanna fly.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chris marion <flyrv6(at)cinci.infi.net> |
dear rv listers,
i have just ordered my wing kit, and i was wondering how
accurate vans 12 week lead time is? could you please share
your experiences. thank you chris marion
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowling Inside Treatment |
September 04, 1997 - September 14, 1997
RV-Archive.digest.vol-di