RV-Archive.digest.vol-dj
September 14, 1997 - September 21, 1997
>What finish is recommended for the inside of the cowlings? As I see it, the
>simplest approach would be to leave the finish au naturel, but painting with
>outside color or Zolatone are also options.
>
>What do most of you do? How about you OSH grand champions?
>
>TIA,
>-GV
Gary,
I left mine unfinished----saves weight & is cheap. You might want to
consider filling the weave a bit with some some resin as it would make
cleanup a little easier. Rubbing rags on rough fiberglass shortens their
life quite a bit. Still, I think I'll leave my next one "raw" as well.
Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: circuit breaker switches |
>It's time to make some decisions about switches.
>Van's has the circuit breaker switches for about 20$.
>A separate switch-breaker sells for about the same amount, 10$ each.
>My guess it would be easier to install the circuit breaker switch.
>Any opinions on what I should do?
>Any advice on wiring the whole airplane?
>
>Craig Hiers
>RV-4 N143CH
Craig,
I went the conventional route on my first six. After I was pretty much
done, I saw a copy of the AeroElectric Connection. On my second six, I
intend to make use of the fuse blocks and the blade type fuses for the most
part. I sat down and figured out that I would have saved over $400 had I
used this option as opposed to C.B.s and switch/C.B.s. Using the fuses would
have also made the wiring job much simpler and trouble shooting should be
easier. You should also save a lot of weight. Using a line of cb's or
switch/cbs with a copper bus bar arrangement is kind of a standard practice
but if you do this, you'll probably have to remove the whole row to replace
just one breaker. Getting behind the panel to tighten screws, etc. is a
pain, as well.
You may still have occasion to use a switch/cb but I intend to follow Bob
Nuckoll's suggestions, for the most part.
Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Lights and Pitot wiring |
>Is there a problem with grounding to the spar and running just a hot wire
from the panel or should I plan on running two wires per device.
>
>Thanks for advice.
>
>Steve Cole
>Indianapolis
>RV-6 skinning left wing
Steve,
I grounded my landing lights and nav lights to the spar and it has worked
fine. I made sure that the metal was clean for a good ground.
Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark D Hiatt" <OttoPilot_MSN(at)classic.msn.com> |
Chris, there are about a skillion ways to figure the cost-per-hour.
You can add-up all of the receipts and divide by the number of hours and that
first hour will cost you something between $30,000 and $50,000!
Also, remember that as you fly, the fixed costs don't change but are spread
out over fewer or more hours, so the more you fly, the lower your per-hour
cost will be. So, fly a lot!
In the end, though, you're probably about right.
Mark D Hiatt Visit us on MSN v2!
OttoPilot_MSN@msn.com http://Forums.msn.com/Aviation
Aviation Forum Manager, AvChat Mondays 10pm Eastern
The Microsoft Network mic://Chat.msn.com/AvChat
> How does it come out so high? I've been eyeing the RV-8 just
> waiting for the right time to start. I had figured that not
> counting the cost of the plane that you would easily come down
> to the $60/hr range for fuel, engine overhaul fund, and insurance.
>
> Of course tiedown/hanger fees are there to but they vary widely.
> In the end I just don't see how it couldn't be at least as
> inexpensive as renting a 172.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chris marion <flyrv6(at)cinci.infi.net> |
dear listers,
I just ordered the rv-6 wing kit,and was wondering how accurate vans
lead times are.please share your experiences.
chris marion
rv-6 wings ordered
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mauser(at)claris.com (Richard Chandler) |
| Subject: | Re: building table |
>
> I built a 3 x 6 foot table which rests on a pair of Costco/Price
> Club heavy duty saw horses. The table itself is a laminate of 1/2
> inch CDX plywood and 5/8 particle board (to keep the weight down and
> add strength). I added 2 x 2's as perimeter and cross bracing to keep
> it flat (very important). The height is fine, etc., but next time,
> I would add two angle irons length wise, as it does sag a tad. If
> you want to go the distance, put a coat of water based poly on it to
> seal the particle board. The whole thing comes apart when you don't
> need it.
You might have been better off with two layers of plywood. Particle board is
notoriously heavy, and not particularly rigid. (And heaven help you if you
get it wet!). My workbench is a 2x4 frame with two layers of AC grade 1/2"
plywood (With construction adhesive between 'em). The A grade side is on top,
and I sanded it very smooth and quite thoroughly coated it with polyurathane.
It was almost too pretty to drill holes in for the vice!
I also discovered that Poly is rather resistant to acetone.
--
Richard Chandler
RV-6: Garage bought and being finished, saving for tools and tail kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keith Warfield <kpwarfield(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Flight Manual or POH |
Dave Barnhart wrote:
I've actually given serious consideration to publishing an RV-6/6A POH.
Dave,
I'd be interested in your POH. What do you expect the price range to be?
Keith Warfield
RV-6A
kpwarfield(at)worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Warren/MK Bishop" <wemkbish(at)nponline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Control spacing |
>
> I am getting close to installing an 0-360 in my RV-6 and I'm ready to
> order and install the necessary controls for the throttle, prop and
> mixture. I'll be mounting them horizontally across on an angle hanging
> below the instrument panel. My question is what spacing apart should I
> set them at? Too close and they would be hard to use, but I want them
> as close as practicle. I would appreciate comments from those that are
> flying with this configuration.
>
I can't remember exactly, but about 4-4". The way I determined was to
make a cardboard mount and place the controls in them and try it. I wanted
them just far enough apart that when grabbing one, you wouldn't disturb
another...or when using one, your hand would easily clear the others.
> While we are on the subject of controls I would also like to request
> comments on were is the best place to buy the Blue vernier prop control
> and red vernier mixture control? I like them better than what Van's
> offers but they are a little more costly.
I got mine at Aircraft Spruce...good choice.
Warren Bishop
RV-6--working on engine accessories
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Flight Manual or POH |
Listers,
I'm currently working on a POH for my RV-6A. It's being written in MS
Word7.0 format and is specific to my plane (N-number, prop control
reference, RMI engine monitor, tip-up canopy, etc). I have patterned the
preflight and emergency procedures after a typical Cessna / Piper POH.
Actually the entire thing is patterned after a Cessna manual right up to
it's physical size.
It's about 50-75% complete Once it's finished, I'll notify the list and
make it publicly available (free). If anyone is in need for one right now,
I'll be happy to e-mail you what I have so far.
Scott Gesele N506RV (Weighed it today, ready for FAA inspection)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Justifying Build Costs to Spouse |
| From: | "William H. Watson" <watson1(at)alink.net> |
Judging from the recent posts, there seems to be some angst around making
a decision to build your own airplane and then justifying the decision to
your spouse/significant other. Please feel free to borrow from my own
efforts in this regard.
Building an RV- (fill in blank) is justified because:
1) I rent planes at about $55/hr. I fly about 200 hours per year
(slight exaggeration), therefore I'm already spending $11,000/year. In
three years I could have my own plane (another white lie).
MT
2) The engine should go to OH, that's 2,000 hours. By then, I'll have
lost my medical. We can sell the plane for $50K and take a trip around
the world.
3) By the time I need an engine and prop, it won't be $20K because auto
engines will be available for $2,000. (In fact, lets get a new Chevy
pickup; I can use the engine when I'm ready and sell the engine-less body
to pay for the prop and accessories.
4) Once I learn how to build airplanes, I can supplement our retirement
income working at the local airport - we won't have to eat dog food after
all, and we can see America from 500' AGL.
5) The tools seem like a lot of money, but I can use them to fix things
around the house.
6) We could send Johnny/Susie to college, but a career in aviation is
just as good. If we had a plane......
I have more, but to avoid overkill, here is the final one:
7) I COULD be going out to bars and game arcades, blowing big bucks, but
I'll be right here, in the garage, and you'll know where I am. I promise
we'll talk a lot; I can give you progress reports on a timely basis.
"Honey, I just finished the rear spar."
Betting this won't make the archives,
Bill Watson
Actually, I have just finished the rear spars
RV-6A
Mountain View, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
>
> airframe, engine, instruments = $30,000/215 hrs = $140/hr
> insurance + hangar = $2400/yr/100 hr/yr = $24/hr
> fuel + oil = $16/hr
>
> $140 + $24 + $16 = $180/hr
>
> It adds up! Next year I'll be down below $150/hr. Gettin' cheap!
>
> DJ
I must take issue with your numbers. In my business I would be out of
business with your accounting procedures. I believe a fairer accounting of
the airframe cost would be either a depreciation or capitalization
approach. Since as long as I have been following RV's I have seen no
depreciation I would take the capitalization approach to the airframe and
depreciation approach to the engine OH.
Hence
$30,000 @ 9% capitalization rate = $2700/ 100hrs = $27/hr
$10000 overhaul at 1500 hours avg = $7/Hour
I'll accept your gas hanger and ins $16+$24
Total $67 / hour at 100 hrs /year.
You can still rent a 172 for around $50/ hour. Don't buy any airplane to
save money. You can almost always rent cheaper. But I haven't found an RV
for rent recently, and I had to fly a 172 for fun, I wouldn't.
Tailwinds, N240 the pink panther
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flyinghi(at)worldnet.att.net |
I tried to post these a few times but I must have addressed incorrectly.
Someone had requested a price on general tools for building. I purchased a
full line of tools to build the 6A according to what Van recommends from
Texas Air Tool in San Antonio. Jim Smith sells surplus military tools out
of his garage at extremely reasonable prices. I got everything from rivet
gun, clecos, squeezer, bucking bars, etc. and the list goes on for about
$385. All of his tools are guaranteed and I never had to send anything
back. You can reach him at 210 675-6568, 9600 Dugas, San Antonio, Texas
78245.
Another item I recommend after I used it is Post-it Correction and Cover up
tape in the 1" size. It comes in a 1" X 700" roll for about $5 and is
available at all office supply stores. I got mine at Office Depot. One
roll was all I needed to backrivet all of my 6A with plenty left over.
Just like Post-it notes, it leaves absolutely no residue, marks, etc and it
can be peeled off and reused. It worked great and might save you some
shipping costs.
Good luck to all
Charles Golden
SN 24765, N609CG
Belted Air Chevy V-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wes Hays <whays(at)tenet.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Flight Manual or POH |
Dave,
Please include me for a POH.
Thanks
Wes Hays
N844WB (Starting the Fuselage)
whays(at)tenet.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net> |
| Subject: | RV-6/6A Wing Construction |
My notes on Wing Construction for RV-6/6A are parked behind the red
RV-6A button at http://www.flash.net/~gila/ courtesy of Gil Alexander.
If you are using, or intend to use these notes, please drop me an email
direct. I am trying to decide whether to write notes for the finish kit
with tilt canopy...the response may sway my decision. I am using
Justice notes for the fuselage construction.
I'd like to see a POH for RV-6A, a checklist for annual inspections,
productive test flight routine for the 25 hour(or 40 hour?) flyoff, and
any paperwork problems associated with the final inspection. Recent
postings re inspections were informative. It seems I'm too busy with
the List and building to get into the archives.
Will Cretsinger
cretsinger(at)arlington.net
Arlington, TX
-6A fuselage out of jig, finish kit enroute
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
GV, I recently posted some info on this including the phone and fax numbers
for Cablecraft which you might consider putting in your yeller pages. They do
sell their Quality Aircraft Control Cables with the threaded conduit ends, and
in custom lengths, at direct retail. If anyone wants a catalog, contact them.
Actually, Chief lists some of the standard length mixture and throttle cables
for less cost than Cablecraft, but not the 10-32 threaded blue prop cable.
Also, Chief doesn't charge sales tax and Cablecraft does, where applicable.
Chief's catalog doesn't mention what the extra charge is for the optional
bulkhead end fitting, but from Cablecraft it is $5.05 more than the grooved
conduit (teleflex type) end fitting.
My posting also outlined a way to order cables with the threaded bulkhead
fittings from Aircraft Spruce if you wish to use theirs with Van's brackets.
Let me know if you missed this posting and I will re-post it.
Thanks, Les.
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of aol.com!Vanremog(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 1997 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Control spacing
<< I am getting close to installing an 0-360 in my RV-6 and I'm ready to
order and install the necessary controls for the throttle, prop and
mixture. I'll be mounting them horizontally across on an angle hanging
below the instrument panel. My question is what spacing apart should I
set them at?>>
Placing them on 3" centers is just about right IMO. My angle is 1.5"H x
7.5"W x .125"thk.
<< While we are on the subject of controls I would also like to request
comments on were is the best place to buy the Blue vernier prop control
and red vernier mixture control?>>
ACS if you want the teleflex type sheath ends, Chief if you want the
Cablecraft threaded type sheath ends.
Check the archives (search on controls) for more complete discussion of this
topic.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
Fellow RVers,
I have a friend who has a 180 hp, fuel injected Lycoming in his RV-6A.
The injector is Bendix, the spider and filter are Airflow Performance. The
engine has 125 hours since new. The high pressure fuel pump is blast cooled
and the fuel lines are firesleeved. The engine operated fine up until just
lately. Most of the flights were conducted in very hot, plains weather.
Now, when the throttle is retarded to around 16-18" m.p., the engine
backfires and quits. The problem is occuring at 65-70 degrees F. Once on
the ground, it will start back up. The engine quit on downwind and on
final. Naturally, he won't be flying it again until the problem is solved.
He has a positive fuel flow indication and feels certain that fuel is making
it to the engine. He has the fuel flow transducer mounted on top of the
engine close to the spider (possible airlock?). Also, he has no return line
to vent air locks.
Any ideas out there in RV land?
Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n3773(at)postoffice.worldnet.att.net |
my father worked hard all his life, got an artifical heart valve, and now
is pretty much stuck flying RC model planes. No ones guarantying you a
medical. Times a wastin'.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n3773(at)postoffice.worldnet.att.net |
| Subject: | Re: Control Cables for RV-6/6A |
> 1. Van's brackets are made to use throttle and governor cables with
threaded
> conduit end fittings (the mixture mount is flat for a clamp on). The
cables
> made by Cablecraft that Van's stocks have large (2") black indented
knobs. I
> want to use the FAA standard configuration for cockpit control knobs
(shapes
> and colors) that ACS and Cablecraft both manufacture.
you didn't mention that with the ACS cables you will discover that the
Van's bracket which bolts to the carb is too short, such that with the
throtlle in the off position the clamp would be about an inch beyond the
bracket. I have an extra one which extra holes(you didn't think I foresaw
this problem did you?) if someone would like a template for fabricating
their own 1" bigger bracket. kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fran Malczynski <fmalczy(at)ibm.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LP Aero advice sheets |
Dave, I will be at Oswego on the 27th. Will you handing out copies of
your presentation there, or is the only way I can get via E-mail?
If E-Mail is the only way, send to above address...Thanks
Fran Malczynski
Olcott, NY
RV6 - Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Recent Stealth fighter crash |
Greetings fellow RVers,
Just a quick note here...the F-117 that lost tail components and crashed
in Maryland was piloted by Bryan Knight..who, strangely enough, has
emailed me for my comments on building an RV-8! He's stationed at
Holloman, AFB in New Mexico..and I live in Albuquerque. He ejected
safely, and, hopefully..will soon join the ranks of RV fanatics world
wide! He has been applauded for his skilled handling of the
machine..which caused minimal damage. I'll let you know when I hear
from him again, and let's welcome him home! Just goes to show ya, RV
people are the best pilots in the world!
Hope this isn't considered spam...just thought anything relating to
skilled piloting and airframe issues would apply here..be it carbon, or
aluminum!
Stay safe my friends,
Brian Denk
RV-8 #379
tail done..awaiting wings
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HinkleyC(at)fca.gov |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Fever and Cure solicitation |
* * * * The views expressed in this EMail are my own and do not represent
the policy or position * * * *
* * * * of the Farm Credit Administration. * * * *
Fred,
The drill on the empanage kit is to bring you up to speed on building
aluminum airplane parts. If you have not previously built an RV or helped
someone for a lot of hours, then you should think of building the empanage
kit as the most important part of the building process. Building the
empanage kit will teach you the skills needed to finish the rest of the
kit. Even if you chose to build the RV6 Quick build kit, I would recommend
that you build the empanage kit first and then order the quick build kit
less the empanage.
If you have already build an RV and you want to save some time you may
consider purchasing an empanage kit that has already been built. The thing
to consider is that if you have not already build an RV how could you judge
the workmanship of the pre-built empanage kit you were looking at.
Curtis Hinkley
RV-8 N815RV reserved
chinkley(at)ix.netcom.com
hinkleyc(at)fca.gov
********
fca.gov!HinkleyC(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> You can get started for about 2.5k and see if you like the building
> process. The bottom line is that if you are not happy building you can
> sell the emp kit and the tools. That would allow you to recover most of
> your expenses.
>
Curtis, I see a few of these empanage kits far sale, in TAP, KitPlanes,
Sport Avaition, etc. I wonder how many of them get sold, and on terms
the builder is happy with.
Is it the drill to build the empanage kit if you're not sure you will
like building, or buy a built up empanage kit if you are?
**********
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Walsh <walsh(at)adra.com> |
>
>>
>>Does anyone have any info on the rv4 crash last year in IN that involved
>>the in flight seperation of the stabilizer?
>
>From the NTSB:
>
>Accident occurred SEP-17-96 at MUNCIE, IN
>Aircraft: Thocker RV-4, registration: N952JT
Here it is from the NTSB web site. If anybody can comprehend what the hell
this means, I would sure love a translation.
John
NTSB Identification: CHI96FA334. The docket is stored in the (offline) NTSB
Imaging System.
Accident occurred SEP-17-96 at MUNCIE, IN
Aircraft: Thocker RV-4, registration:
N952JT
Injuries: 2 Fatal.
Two pilots departed in the amateur built airplane for a local flight. About
10 miles from the departure airport, the airplane was observed to descend
into the terrain. The activity of the airplane prior to the accident and/or
the individual operating the airplane controls at the time was not determined.
Subsequent to the accident an examination of the airplane determined that
the carry-through portion of the horizontal stabilizer, which included the
forward attachment for the vertical stabilizer, had become disconnected in
flight. The particular part was not found. The entire right horizontal
stabilizer and the outboard half of the right elevator departed the
airplane in-flight. The lower rudder attach fitting bolt was missing at the
impact
site, and there was no evidence that the bolt was in place at the time of
the accident.
Probable Cause
was the in-flight disconnection of the horizontal and vertical stabilizer
forward attachments.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ZIMMERMANN COREY - LDAR <CZIMMERM(at)LDGATE1.KELLY.AF.MIL> |
lists
Corey R. Zimmermann
(210) 925-0404
DSN 945-0404
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chris marion <flyrv6(at)cinci.infi.net> |
Dear listers,
I have just ordered the rv-6 wing kit,and was wondering just how
accurate Vans lead times are.please share your experiences.
chris marion
rv-6 wings ordered
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JHeadric(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: rough running at certain RPM's |
I had the same problem after having the venturi replaced with a 1 piece.
Jim H. O-320-E2A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JHeadric(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: rough running at certain RPM's |
I had the same problem after having the venturi replaced with a 1 piece.
Jim H. O-320-E2A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vincent S. Himsl" <himsl(at)mail.wsu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: building table |
>
>To any builder:
>
>I am setting up my garage to build an RV-8. I have read many books
>including the series by 'Bengelis'. Does anyone have any special
>reccommendations as to the form or length of the table used for building?
....snip
Hello,
I am building my RV8 in my double car garage and so far have used tables
only to store things on and do some dimpling with the Avery 'C' frame
dimpling tool. Nearly all of my work (Horizontal/Vertical stabilizer) has
been on the center section of the empennage jig as described in the plans.
Table(s) are pretty much a what I have laying around affair. I had a narrow
solid core door which I threw on to a couple prefab particle board cabinets
(formerly a quickie computer table).
I recommend NARROW solid or hollow core doors thrown on whatever works, or
prefab counter tops. Narrow so you can work on the 'whatever' from both
sides. If you haven't already, recommend the George Orndoff empennage video
and the preplans (for the RV6 if the -8 ones aren't ready yet). Though I
went to a lot of work setting up my jig, it quickly became apparent to me
that what was most important was an accurate level and the plumb bob. Wood
changes, gravity doesn't!
One table, one bench for the vice and grinder, and the will be enough to
start the tail section. Parts storage I think is more of a concern, at least
at the getting started level.
Biggest problem will be keeping the family from filling up all that nice
'free' space you created in the garage with the junk they don't want.
Good Luck
Vince Himsl
RV8-tail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert.R.F.Ziegler(at)scbvpno.simis.com |
| Subject: | RV Flight Manual or POH |
Me too!
Dipl.Ing. Robert Ziegler, ODE
Sac Postal Shell Congo B.V. Pointe-Noire
c/o UNIVERSAL EXPRESS
B.P. 10387 Aeroport Charles de Gaule
F-95706 Roissy CDG, FRANCE
Ph: +242 42 8356
Fax: +242 94 3447
Satphone: +871 382 040 322 ex221
SatFax: +871 682 040 490
Internet: Robert.R.F.Ziegler(at)scbvpno.simis.com
Internet alternate (private): Robert.Ziegler(at)usa.net
X.400: /I=RF/G=Robert/S=Ziegler/O=SCBV POINTE
NOIRE/PRMD=SHELL/ADMD=400NET/C=NL/
----------
From: c=GB;a=CWMAIL;p=NET;dda:RFC-822=owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com;
Sent: Monday, September 15, 1997 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Flight Manual or POH
>
>>I'm very interested
Also put me down please.
Cheers Les Rowles
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Having been out of town for about 5 weeks out of the last 10,
things were getting very far behind. In fact, I've taken
a day off from Raytheon (Beech) to try and catch up on a few
more things. I've whittled a 12" stack of papers on my desk
down to about 3" . . . hope to have it cleared by this evening.
If any RV-listers have any business pending with us (notes
unanswered, parts not received, etc.) it wouldn't hurt to
drop us a quick letter letting us know.
The weekend seminar (http:\\www.aeroelectric.com\portland.html)
is a go project for Sept 27-28 in Portland, Oregon. Hope to meet
many of you in person there. Drop by and say hello even if you
don't have time to attend the whole program.
I just posted another article (Low Cost Ground Power Jack
for Your Airplane) on our website. This same article will appear
in Sport Aviation in coming months but our web-surfing friends
get a first crack at it.
Regards,
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Two-Piece Wheel Fairings |
I am about to order my 6A finishing kit and I'd like to hear feedback on
the two-piece wheel fairings and the windshield molding strip. My interest
in the two-piece fairings is accessibility, not speed. I never mount the
fairings on my Skyhawk because I check brake pad wear and mounting pin
float in every preflight. I will fly off of grass occasionally. The
molding is to save time.
Thanks.
Dennis 6A fuselage out of jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MoeJoe" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
charset="us-ascii"
Speaking of lead times, what are they? I'm holding off on buying my RV-8
tailkit because I won't have a place to build until Oct 1. Should I order
now? I was gonna call Vans today, but never got around to it, so I figured
I'd just ask the list.
Thanks
Moe
>dear listers,
> I just ordered the rv-6 wing kit,and was wondering how accurate vans
>lead times are.please share your experiences.
>
>chris marion
>rv-6 wings ordered
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net> |
| Subject: | RV-6/6A Wing Construction Notes |
My notes on Wing Construction for RV-6/6A are parked behind the red
RV-6A button at http://www.flash.net/~gila/ courtesy of Gil Alexander.
If you have used, are using, or will soon be using these notes, please
drop me an email direct. I am trying to decide whether to write notes
for the finish kit with tilt canopy...the response may sway my decision.
I am using Justice notes for the fuselage.
I'd like to have available on the net a POH for RV-6A, a checklist for
annual inspections, productive test flight routien for the 25 hour (or
40 hour?) flyoff, and any paperwork problems associated with the final
inspection. The POH would probably include some graphs not
adaptable to the net so that publication should be well received.
Recent postings re inspections were helpful. It seems I'm too busy with
the List and building to study how to get into the archives.
Will Cretsinger
cretsinger(at)arlington.net
Arlington, TX
-6A finish kit arrives tomorrow!!! Tilt canopy!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
I made up a nice POH for my RV-4 after being told that I would need it
for the FAA inspection last Sept. 24, but they never asked for it. It
is on Word 6.0 and if someone would tell me how to send it on the
RV-list net, I would put it on. You can see how it was done and modify
it to suit your plane.
John Kitz
N721JK
155 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
>
>dear rv listers,
>i have just ordered my wing kit, and i was wondering how
>accurate vans 12 week lead time is? could you please share
>your experiences. thank you chris marion
My kits were available before the back order time, as were all the
local builders I have contact with.
Have a good day!
Denny,
RV-6 (R)N641DH
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | Good Results On New RV6A Landing Technique, Have 1 more |
question.
Thanks to all who gave me some advice on landing techniques for landing an
RV6A with a heavy passenger.
The one that worked for me was keeping 80 mph on approach, then allowing it
to settle on the runway at 65-70 mph. Great visibility over the nose and
very smooth landings. This works really well. I had been previously
flairing to much and doing a full stall landing like in a skyhawk, which
did not work well.
Final Question:
When heavy on takeoff from a grass strip, what degree of flaps should be
put down if any ? I have heard using flaps in RV's add more to drag then
lift, but is this over say 15 degrees of flap or so ? ( I have a 180 HP and
wood prop ).
Thanks in advance for the advice ...
Scott Johnson
rvgasj(at)mcs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve McClure <shekinahair(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Any RV Builders in Dayton? |
>
>Steve,
>I'm in Bellbrook, Ohio and finishing an RV6. Call me when you have a
>chance. 937-848-7073
>
>Ace Weeks
>
Hi Ace,
Thanks, I'd really like to talk to you about your experiences building
your 6. I was to have mine last month but had to hold off for some surgery.
Hope to get the kit in the garage by christmas.
I envy you. Sounds like your about to enjoy a great airplane. Good luck!
Hope to talk to you soon.
Steve and Carey McClure
wish we were already flying one. . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Jackson <denny(at)transport.com> |
Hey, guys, check out my lumpy cheek. There's a tongue in there. I do
think an RV is a good investment and very reasonably priced per hour,
especially for what you get in fun/dollar. I'm just saying you probably
can rent cheaper if all you want to do is get from A to B, or maybe just
A to A again. Sheesh, you guys are so serious!
DJ
les williams wrote:
>
>
> Dennis, unless your RV is totally trashed and has no salvage value after the
> 215 hours you have flown it, then your formula is flawed!
>
> Les
>
> ----------
> From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Dennis Jackson
> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 1997 5:27 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: $$$
>
>
> airframe, engine, instruments = $30,000/215 hrs = $140/hr
> insurance + hangar = $2400/yr/100 hr/yr = $24/hr
> fuel + oil = $16/hr
>
> $140 + $24 + $16 = $180/hr
>
> It adds up! Next year I'll be down below $150/hr. Gettin' cheap!
>
> DJ
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | circuit breaker switches |
Bob, you must have purchased some awfully expensive circuit breakers/circuit
breaker switches. My entire array for a VFR panel cost under $200.00 total,
including master and avionics switches. However, I do agree that changing them
out on a buss bar is no fun if they are located near the bottom of the panel.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Bob Skinner
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 1997 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: circuit breaker switches
>It's time to make some decisions about switches.
>Van's has the circuit breaker switches for about 20$.
>A separate switch-breaker sells for about the same amount, 10$ each.
>My guess it would be easier to install the circuit breaker switch.
>Any opinions on what I should do?
>Any advice on wiring the whole airplane?
>
>Craig Hiers
>RV-4 N143CH
Craig,
I went the conventional route on my first six. After I was pretty much
done, I saw a copy of the AeroElectric Connection. On my second six, I
intend to make use of the fuse blocks and the blade type fuses for the most
part. I sat down and figured out that I would have saved over $400 had I
used this option as opposed to C.B.s and switch/C.B.s. Using the fuses would
have also made the wiring job much simpler and trouble shooting should be
easier. You should also save a lot of weight. Using a line of cb's or
switch/cbs with a copper bus bar arrangement is kind of a standard practice
but if you do this, you'll probably have to remove the whole row to replace
just one breaker. Getting behind the panel to tighten screws, etc. is a
pain, as well.
You may still have occasion to use a switch/cb but I intend to follow Bob
Nuckoll's suggestions, for the most part.
Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Chatter: Re: Justifying Build Costs to Spouse |
alink.net!watson1(at)matronics.com wrote:
> Building an RV- (fill in blank) is justified because:
>
> 1) I rent planes at about $55/hr. I fly about 200 hours per year
> (slight exaggeration), therefore I'm already spending $11,000/year. In
> three years I could have my own plane (another white lie).
1a) And it flies so much faster than a C172, we'll easily be able to go
see your folks as often as you want.
> 2) The engine should go to OH, that's 2,000 hours. By then, I'll have
> lost my medical. We can sell the plane for $50K and take a trip around
> the world.
Be careful here... in (1) you estimated 200 hours/year, so 2000 hours is
only 10 years. Even a marginally-numerate SO could do this math, in
which case the remaining justifications wouldn't be worth anything.
[snip (3) - (6)]
> 7) I COULD be going out to bars and game arcades, blowing big bucks, but
> I'll be right here, in the garage, and you'll know where I am. I promise
> we'll talk a lot; I can give you progress reports on a timely basis.
> "Honey, I just finished the rear spar."
7a) We can share this project, so we'll actually be spending more time
together.
OR
7b) You'll have more time to do the things *you* want to do.
8) And the kids can help to... great father-son/daughter bonding.
9) I'll be spending less time on the computer reading email.
10) Since it's something *I* want, why don't you pick out a pastime that
*you* like. We can't afford anything fancy, but maybe knitting or
origami?
11) When the plane's finished, there'll be garage space for your new
car.
12) Aviation's a great social environment. We'll be able to make lots of
new friends. Like the guys from the FAA.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chris marion <flyrv6(at)cinci.infi.net> |
dear listers,
I want to apologize for the multiple postings of my "lead
times"message.I thought these postings were getting lost.I guess things
are just slower than usual.
chris marion
________________________________________________________________________________
>I must take issue with your numbers. In my business I would be out of
>business with your accounting procedures. I believe a fairer accounting of
>the airframe cost would be either a depreciation or capitalization
>approach. Since as long as I have been following RV's I have seen no
>depreciation I would take the capitalization approach to the airframe and
>depreciation approach to the engine OH.
Come on Doug, lighten up. Having made a living as an accountant, I know
there are more ways to do cost accounting than there are colors of cats. Of
course there is no depreciation on the plane unless it is in a business
expense. So an individual can do cost accounting how ever he desires, it's
not going to IRS.
Heck, my fish I caught in Hawaii in my boat only cost me a little over
#1300.00 each, with my fun time cost accounting! But the bonding time I had
with my son made it all worth while, how ever you figure it.
At times, a little joshing does the soul good.
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: inspection rv-4 |
>
>Okay. Here is a post-inspection report for anyone who cares to read it.
>The DAR arrived at 10 a.m. He left at 1:30 p.m.. I did not get a
>certificate. My prop bolts had 4 washers under each nut. I really
Mike;
Since he is the expert, why not ask him what is his reference source for all
of this good information, ask for manual, page and paragraph number. I have
found over the years that most of these so called experts are operating out
of what they think it should be. He should be able to provide this
information, and it is sooooo educational to you that he shouldn't get
ticked off simply because you are attempting to further your education,
isn't that what experimental building is for?
But all of that aside, it sounds to me as if you had a DAR that is without
question the south end of a north bound mule.
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: circuit breaker switches |
I am just about 95% complete with the wiring in my -6A. (only the
radio/transponder remaining). Somewhat complex, with a Vital and Non-vital
bus, VM-1000, light dimmer and Keep-warm circuit out of Sport Aviation
(Thanks, Bob), electric trim. A whole bunch of wires.
I used the fuse blocks that Aeroelectric sells, 20 space for non-vital, 10
for vital. Only two breaker/switches in the plane (Vital Alternate Feed and
Alternator regulator feed). Fuse Blocks are behind two small doors in the
panel, spare fuses on the inside of the door.
These things are great! With the .25" slip on crimp fittings it is fast to
wire, and once on, they are on. One of the reasons cars have become so much
more dependable in the electrical dept. is things like these fuse blocks and
the fuses.
My friends Lancair IVP, flying now, has about 1,000 bucks worth of circuit
breakers on a panel by his knee. Looks impressive but my $35 fuse blocks are
a lot more "RV" .
Try them, you will like them
Bruce Patton
Back to serious building now that the Soaring is done.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: engine quits |
>
>Fellow RVers,
> I have a friend who has a 180 hp, fuel injected Lycoming in his RV-6A.
>The injector is Bendix, the spider and filter are Airflow Performance. The
>engine has 125 hours since new. The high pressure fuel pump is blast cooled
>and the fuel lines are firesleeved. The engine operated fine up until just
>lately. Most of the flights were conducted in very hot, plains weather.
>Now, when the throttle is retarded to around 16-18" m.p., the engine
>backfires and quits. The problem is occuring at 65-70 degrees F. Once on
>the ground, it will start back up. The engine quit on downwind and on
>final. Naturally, he won't be flying it again until the problem is solved.
>He has a positive fuel flow indication and feels certain that fuel is making
>it to the engine. He has the fuel flow transducer mounted on top of the
>engine close to the spider (possible airlock?). Also, he has no return line
>to vent air locks.
> Any ideas out there in RV land?
>
>Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
>
Bob
I had the same problem and it was the fuel injector. I took it in and there
was a major diaphram failure, or that is what I was told. What was happening
was that the engine would flood at lower power settings.
It was nothing that $500 would not solve!
Tom Martin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
I'd be happy to put it on my website if you email it to me.
> ----------
> From: John Kitz[SMTP:greenapple.com!jkitz(at)matronics.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 1997 4:24 PM
> To: RV List
> Subject: RV-List: P.O.M.
>
>
> I made up a nice POH for my RV-4 after being told that I would need it
> for the FAA inspection last Sept. 24, but they never asked for it. It
> is on Word 6.0 and if someone would tell me how to send it on the
> RV-list net, I would put it on. You can see how it was done and
> modify
> it to suit your plane.
>
> John Kitz
> N721JK
> 155 hours
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
>
>dear rv listers,
>i have just ordered my wing kit, and i was wondering how
>accurate vans 12 week lead time is? could you please share
>your experiences. thank you chris marion
>
Chris,
It's 12 weeks to get to crating. Then it is however long it takes to crate
it(Van's told me they crate 20 + kits at a time and the kits that have been
paid for first get crated first) and then however long it takes to ship it.
Mine took 15 weeks from time of order. At Van's homecoming event, I was
told most of the reason for the 12 weeks was due to backlogs with their
vendors, including Phlogiston, etc. Evidently all the spars are worked on
by Phlogiston whether you get the anodized spars or not.
Regards,
Tom Velvick
rver(at)caljet.com
RV-6a fluting wing ribs and redoing elavator trim tab
Phoenix, AZ
Regards,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | eprth(at)kneehill.com (Tim Houle) |
Hi all,
I've been reading that a drill press is a handy tool to have when building.
I'm about to start my RV6 and thought I would get a drill press. Is there a
minimum drill speed I should be looking at. I read somewhere that 250 rpm is
the best for some of the drilling. Alot of the small benchtop drill presses
only go down to about 600 or 700 rpm. When does the drill press come in most
handy? Also, I've got Avery's and Cleaveland's tool catalogues and was
looking at the 3x rivet guns. Any preferrences?
Thanks
Tim Houle
***************************
Tim Houle
email: eprth(at)kneehill.com
***************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
> Here it is from the NTSB web site. If anybody can comprehend what the hell
> this means, I would sure love a translation.
> Two pilots departed in the amateur built airplane for a local flight. About
> 10 miles from the departure airport, the airplane was observed to descend
> into the terrain. The activity of the airplane prior to the accident and/or
> the individual operating the airplane controls at the time was not
> determined.
Translation: "No-one knows what happened really, except that someone saw
the plane crash".
> Subsequent to the accident an examination of the airplane determined that
> the carry-through portion of the horizontal stabilizer, which included the
> forward attachment for the vertical stabilizer, had become disconnected in
> flight.
The HS is one assembly, with the front and rear spars going through the
fuselage. According to this report, the VS front spar is attached to the
HS front spar (The VS front spar isn't vertical, so that can't be
right???), which is in turn attached to the fuselage. According to the
report, the HS front spar became detached from the fuselage. IIRC, it's
bolted to a vertical bulkhead by four (or more) AN3 bolts.
> The particular part was not found. The entire right horizontal
> stabilizer and the outboard half of the right elevator departed the
> airplane in-flight.
Presumably consequent to the front spar detachment, the right half of
the HS broke off from the rest, taking the outboard half of the right
elevator with it.
I guess that is reasonable. I've just been hanging my elevators and
there's a hefty steel control horn at the inboard end that's attached to
a bearing on the HS. I could envisage the elevator ripping in half
before that let go.
> The lower rudder attach fitting bolt was missing at the impact
> site, and there was no evidence that the bolt was in place at the time of
> the accident.
I guess this means that the AN3 bolt that holds the lowest rudder
rod-end bearing to the bracket on the VS was missing. It would be
impossible for that to just disappear in a crash (presumably they found
the rod-end bearing itself), so it couldn't have been there at the time
of the crash. It doesn't say that this had anything to do with the
crash, although I'd expect a whole lot of flexing of the rudder to
happen, limited (I guess) by the control cables.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
>Speaking of lead times, what are they? I'm holding off on buying my RV-8
>tailkit because I won't have a place to build until Oct 1. Should I order
>now? I was gonna call Vans today, but never got around to it, so I figured
>I'd just ask the list.
>
>Thanks
>Moe
Van's had plenty of empannage kits in stock when I was there a couple of
weeks ago. So figure around a couple of weeks to get it to you. So order
it now and it should be at your place by October 1. Although the box isn't
that big that you probably could find a place to store it quite easily.
Regards,
Tom Velvick
RV-6a fluting wing ribs
Phoenix, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BrownTool(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Need new squeezer source |
Another good source of Sheetmetal Tools is BROWN AVIATION TOOL SUPPLY CO. of
Bethany, OK (http://www.browntool.com) They sell mostly new tools, but do
have surplus tools available from time to time. You can reach them
@1-800-587-3883.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: inspection rv-4 |
Michael,
Wow! You got a real piece of work.
> My prop bolts had 4 washers under each nut. I really
>needed only 2 so the nut wouldn't run past the threads, but then I would
>have had about 3/8" threads showing past the nut. He said get the
>correct length bolt so I only have one washer. He said one washer is
>the limit.
I think generally accepted practice is to allow for 3 washers. He's off
base on the one washer comment, that's for sure. Have him show you where it
says one washer is the limit. There's a possibility that the next size
smaller bolt would put threads in the "bore" which is a no-no. You do want
to be darned sure that you don't bottom the nut on the shank and you will
have some compression of your wood prop so you need to allow for this.
>He didn't recognize the marking on the head of
>the bolts holding the spacer and flywheel to the prop flange so he said
>change those.
Aren't these the bolts that are supplied by the manufacturer? (If you
bought the extension and bolts from Van's). If so, you built the airplane
"per plans" How many RVs are flying with these bolts?
> I had the upper
>spar center section bolts facing forward so as not to damage my seat on
>the threads. He told me to turn them around.
General practice is to mount the bolts with the threads pointing aft or
down. That doesn't mean that is required. There are certainly factory
aircraft that don't follow the rule and in the case of the spar bolts on
your RV there is no reason they can't face either direction.
>On the aileron hinges I
>only had spacers on the inboard hinge bolts to keep them from moving
>sideways. Well, I have to put spacers on the outboard end also, even
>though it is solid just the way it is.
I'd agree with him on this. Don't the plans call for spacers on both sides
of the rod end bearing?
>I had all the floors up so he
>could see the control linkage beneath them. I had to remove the flap
>control so I could get the floor boards up. He wanted to see the flap
>controls work so Next time he conmes back I'll have to put all that back
>in while he waits so he can see it all.
If he's already inspected this area, why not install the floor boards and
flap control so it will be ready when he comes back?
> He said it all looks okay, but then he made me write down
>the part numbers and serial numbers of all the accessories on the
>engine, including the harrison oil cooler (from an apache, i believe).
>He is going to get a list of all the ad's on them So i can have them
>checked. The log says all ad's have been complied with, but they are in
>the mechanics file cabinet in Texas, and the dar wants to see them
>here.
He's not out of line (IMO) in wanting to check compliance with ADs.
>I have to be able to prove i'm right if I don't do what
>he told me, though.
I wonder if you could solve some of your problems by getting, in writing,
something from Van's covering the areas of concern. I would think that
building an aircraft "per plans" would make a difference. Also, I'm not
aware of any regulations for homebuilts stating that a POH is required.
Anyway, I got my six signed off without one.
Good luck.
Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: engine quits |
I had problems with my engine quitting on rollout at idle (O-320-E2D).
Thought I had fule problems with the carb as engine was very hard to start
after quitting. Turned out new mags cured all. It might be ignition and
not fuel related.
RB
>
>Fellow RVers,
> I have a friend who has a 180 hp, fuel injected Lycoming in his RV-6A.
>The injector is Bendix, the spider and filter are Airflow Performance. The
>engine has 125 hours since new. The high pressure fuel pump is blast cooled
>and the fuel lines are firesleeved. The engine operated fine up until just
>lately. Most of the flights were conducted in very hot, plains weather.
>Now, when the throttle is retarded to around 16-18" m.p., the engine
>backfires and quits. The problem is occuring at 65-70 degrees F. Once on
>the ground, it will start back up. The engine quit on downwind and on
>final. Naturally, he won't be flying it again until the problem is solved.
>He has a positive fuel flow indication and feels certain that fuel is making
>it to the engine. He has the fuel flow transducer mounted on top of the
>engine close to the spider (possible airlock?). Also, he has no return line
>to vent air locks.
> Any ideas out there in RV land?
>
>Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
Richard E. Bibb Direct: 301-571-2507
Vice President, Federal Operations Main: 301-564-4404
Fore Systems Federal, Inc. FAX: 301-564-4408
6905 Rockledge Drive, #800 Pager: 800-719-1246
Bethesda, MD 20817 www.fore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: inspection rv-4 |
Micheal,
Sounds like you picked the wrong guy for the job! To expensive and to
thurogh, well at least to expensive. The airline I work for allows 3 washers
max on any bolt, doesent matter which end their on, cant add up to more than
3. On lock nuts inspectors (for the airline) like to see a minimum of 1
thread protruding and a max of 7. The lock nuts we use are NAS so the max
would be less with an AN type nut. The key is not to run the nut down as far
as the shank. You need to remind this guy that this is an EXPERIMENTAL
aircraft. Every part on this airplane does not have to be certified! As a
matter a fact none of them do! The things he should be concerned with are
saftey of flight items. Pay attention and change the things that should be
changed for safety sake, but dont let this guy bully you into changing things
that dont need to be changed. I suggest you get a copy of the FAR's, do some
quick studying and use that for a little ammo.
Good luck,
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scott <acepilot(at)mwt.net> |
Ken Hitchmough wrote:
>
>
> I am sorry to have to report to the list a crash of an RV6 in the Toronto area,
resulting in the
> death of the test pilot.
>
> It was been flown for the first time by a very experienced pilot (not the builder)
when the engine
> apparently failed at about 400 ft. The pilot tried to turn back and stalled/spinned.
> edited...
>
> Once again, the message has been driven home hard...DON'T TURN BACK!
>
> A very sad Ken
>
Ken...sorry to hear about the loss. I was taught never to turn back and
my instructor always told me you can fix or buy a new one, but you only
have one life...and besides, he told me you don't owe the airplane
anything...IT just quit on you...Hopefully all will learn from this
accident.
Scott (RV-4 in the preview plans stage as I collect tools!)
--
Gotta Fly or
Gonna Die !
--Ask me about my
Aeronca Super Chief--
amended 8-29-97: Now after feeling the "Need for Speed", building an
RV-4!
No, the Super Chief is NOT for sale :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CHRIS.BROWNE(at)bge.com |
Thanks to all for the responses.
Thanks to all of the RV-6 fans out there ... I agree with you. But,
when I posted this question last week, I was, selfishly, more
concerned with my view of the airplane how I would be able to handle
it. My decision is a little easier after all of the heartfelt
responses I received here and, importantly, after asking the wife.
When I asked, I got this "of course I want to be able to see out of
the thing" look. I wisely bit my tongue before say something stupid
like "Yeah, but ..." Since she is not opposed to building it, I'm not
going to lose the war by fighting that battle.
Once this plane is flying, I suppose I could build a RV-3 for when the
wife is out of town.
Chris Browne
RV6A Pre-View plans, empennage soon, buying tools and cleaning out the
barn.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Just a few days ago, I was putting a rental airplane away
at the airport Dee and I used to own. We had just finished
tying it down when I noticed a largish pile of blue and
white sheet metal tied down behind the hangar that looked
suspiciously like it had once been an airplane. We walked
over to look and discovered that N704TL, a C-150 that had
trained hundreds of students at 1K1 had been munched.
No intrusion into people spaces and no stains in the cockpit
so it looked like the occuplant(s) got out okay. Found out
later that the airplane was flown by a CFI and student on
a training flight. The airplane ran out of gas at a few
hundred feet off the departure end of the runway. An attempt
to return was also unsucessful although this particular case
did not involve stall/spin. This was in Kansas no less with
acres of fields right in front of them . . . airplane is
totaled.
It's a hard drill but "nose down and straight ahead" is
the RULE. These guys were very lucky. Wonder if the student
will continue his endeavors?
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MoeJoe" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel Time |
charset="US-ASCII"
I agree with this post whole-heartedly. I just recieved my PPSEL in June,
and immediatly started my tailwheel training. I don't se what all the hype
is about. It's only tricky if you want it to be. I was taught to shove the
nose down on takeoff to accelerate quicker, but this should be no problem in
an RV, so you may not even have to worry about that. I learned in a
Citabria. Taxiing is no problem, 3 point landings are no different then
landings in a nosedragger. Yes, you have to watch the wind, but you should
be paying attention to the wind in any light aircraft. I have about 2 hours
time doing direct crosswind landings on a gusty day at a very short grass
field, and I had no trouble at all. The choice, of course, is yours, but the
taildragger is sexier, more fun, and will make everyone else think your
something special. I suggest you find a taildragger in your area and take a
few hours dual before you make this decision.
Moe Colontonio
RV-8 (Someday)
>Michael Angiulo,
> I'll tell you my experience flying my RV-4 for the first time and
>you be the judge as to how difficult it is to transition from a
>tricycle gear to a taildragger.
> I had 250 hrs. total in Cessna 150's and Piper 140's. I had six
>hrs. dual instruction in a Luscumbe before the flight.(never by
>myself) The only thing I had going for me was that I had been taught
>to fly by a taildragger pilot that insisted I full stall the airplane
>when I landed. In 250 hrs. I had kept up that practice.
> When it was time to fly the RV-4, I gave my billfold to my son,
>told him I loved him and tell his brother and my wife the same. I had
>only been told horror stories about taildraggers and didn't know if I
>was going to come back or not. I eased the throttle in so slow that I
>was flying before I got the throttle in half way. The landing was a
>grease job and the rollout was uneventful. I used common sense when I
>flew (no strong crosswinds, no gusty conditions) There's never been
>anything special about me or my abilities, so I feel if I can do it
>anyone can.
> I will give you a piece of advice for what it's worth. When they
>tell you to high speed taxi the airplane with the tail up in the
>air, don't do it. The plane is made to fly or land. Not to do both at
>the same time. It's just fine to taxi like that if you are already a
>seasoned taildragger pilot, but not if you're just learning. After I
>bought my second prop( before the airplane ever flew) I was given
>this advice by an older gentleman that claimed most homebuilt
>accidents are from high speed taxi tests and builders just learning
>to fly them. In my case, he was right (where had he been when I
>needed his advice)
> I'll end this by saying I've got over 600 hrs. on that plane and
>haven't put a ding in it yet (knock on wood). I've landed in some of
>the godaufullest wind conditions you can imagine. Some were not the
>prettest landings but all of them have been safe landings. Good luck-
>don't let'em scare you off. Jim Nolan N444JN
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
charset="iso-8859-1"
Listers,
As I understand it, there is no appeal from a decision of a DAR. The
guy has the complete discretion to fail your airplane even if he's wrong
and you are right. I think the best thing to do it to try to find out
which DARs know RV's and rely on them to do our airworthiness
inspections. Those of us in remote areas or place where few people fly
need to try to deal with the FAA and leave the phone silent at the DAR's
house!
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net> |
We are having a problem with exhaust studs backing out on a Lycoming
IO-360 200HP. The exhaust pipe is double nutted to prevent those nuts
from loosening as well. Any ideas/suggestions on how to keep the studs in
tight? Stud material? Locktite?
Thanks in advance.
Ed Cole RV6A #24430
emcole(at)concentric.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net> |
chris marion wrote:
>
>
> dear rv listers,
> i have just ordered my wing kit, and i was wondering how
> accurate vans 12 week lead time is? could you please share
> your experiences. thank you chris marion
>
Chris,
12 weeks was a conservative figure in my case. It has more to do with
Van's scheduling a "run" of wing components and wheter you've ordered
your spar from Phlagistron(sp?). Plan on a minimum of 12 weeks.
Ed Cole
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Fever and Cure solicitation |
<< I'm merely curious as to what happens to
all the empanages that were built by people who ultimately decided not
to continue. >>
They go in the aluminum recycling bin with the MT beer cans for pickup. Just
saw in half.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bumflyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Two-Piece Wheel Fairings |
I used the same logic and have no second thoughts after 60 hours. BTW
another clincher was that the two piece ones match the two piece nose pant ;}
I have heard there are competing two piecers out there so you may want to
get some further feedback. Personally I found nothing persuasive about the
competition, and I always stuck with Van's whenever it was possible on
everything. No second thoughts there either.
D Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <tvelvick(at)caljet.com> |
I am working on the rear wing spar now for a RV-6 and find out that the
spar reinforcements and plates all have to be cut from stock and
fabricated. In the empannage kit this was all done for you. My questions
are: 1 - Is this going to be normal for the rest of the kit? and 2 - If so,
what is the best way to cut the stock? Should I purchase a bandsaw or does
some other way work better? I am going to have the first pieces
professionally sheared at a metal shop, but I would like to be able to do
it myself from now on.
Regards
Tom Velvick
RV-6 wings
Phoenix, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <tvelvick(at)caljet.com> |
| Subject: | riveting trim tab piano hinge |
I had a real hard time riveting my elevator trim tab hinge on. I used the
Avery hand squeezers and did not have room to squeeze the last few rivets
without bending the hinge. I wonder if anyone has come up with an easier
way to do this without messing up the hinge?
Regards,
Tom Velvick
rv-6 wings and redoing trim tab
Phoenix, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Chatter: Re: Justifying Build Costs to Spouse |
The sure-fire way is a well timed trip to the Greek islands. The
cost is a small part of what you will spend on the project. Nothing
will make it happen faster than a few days of quality time on the cliffs
of Santorini. Check out; http://www.vacation.forthnet.gr/santor.html
Works like magic.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cowling Inside Treatment |
| From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
> I left mine unfinished----saves weight & is cheap. You might want to
>consider filling the weave a bit with some some resin as it would make
>cleanup a little easier.
BTW, I haven't seen this mentioned on the list yet, but Van's is working
on a new EPOXY cowl. No word on when it will be available, but they have
one installed on the "new" airplane (RV9?) and it looks really nice. I
got a chance to talk to Van himself about it during the homecoming.
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net (Chris Brooks) |
| Subject: | Re: Need new squeezer source |
The Yard 1-800-888-8991 had used pnuematic sqeezers on sale in there
last flier for $195. I bought one from them 3 years ago for $120. It
looked a little rough but it still works great.
Chris Brooks
BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CHRIS.BROWNE(at)bge.com |
| Subject: | Quality of quickbuild kits |
The archives are loaded with information on the problems with some of
the quickbuilds, especially with respect to corrosion, but the
discussion are somewhat dated. I believe there is even a message from
"Van" himself regarding this issue.
Anyone have recent experience with them (i.e. with the last 12 mos.)?
Probably will be a year (or more) before I am ready to order, but the
factory tells me this is the lead time between shipment of kit to the
PI and receipt of the assembly by the builder.
Chris Browne
RV6A pre-view
Buying tools
Empennage soon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jbalbierer(at)nysyr.ang.af.mil |
| Subject: | Recent Stealth fighter crash |
charset=US-ASCII
I saw Brian at Syracuse just before he took off for the air show here in
Syracuse and then to Maryland. Just another reason not to build plastic.
I'm glad everyone made it through OK.
John Balbierer, RV-6
ANG Logistics Officer
-------------
Original Text
________________________________________________________________________________
Greetings fellow RVers,
Just a quick note here...the F-117 that lost tail components and crashed
in Maryland was piloted by Bryan Knight..who, strangely enough, has
emailed me for my comments on building an RV-8! He's stationed at
Holloman, AFB in New Mexico..and I live in Albuquerque. He ejected
safely, and, hopefully..will soon join the ranks of RV fanatics world
wide! He has been applauded for his skilled handling of the
machine..which caused minimal damage. I'll let you know when I hear
from him again, and let's welcome him home! Just goes to show ya, RV
people are the best pilots in the world!
Hope this isn't considered spam...just thought anything relating to
skilled piloting and airframe issues would apply here..be it carbon, or
aluminum!
Stay safe my friends,
Brian Denk
RV-8 #379
tail done..awaiting wings
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
>My prop bolts had 4 washers under each nut. I really
>needed only 2 so the nut wouldn't run past the threads, but then I would
>have had about 3/8" threads showing past the nut. He said get the
>correct length bolt so I only have one washer. He said one washer is
>the limit. I couldn't find any where in the faa mechanic guideline book
>where it said how many washers were legal, or how much bolt sticking out
>past the nut is legal.
Not true. Bolts are sized in 1/8" lengths. Washers are 1/16" thick. If
you have a bolt that needs two washers, how are you going drop down to
the next size bolt and use one washer? Standard procedure is to use from
1 to 3 washers (in the case of 3, put one under the bolt head, and two
under the nut). I couldn't find a written reference for this, but it is
common practice among mech's. It is impossible to only use one washer on
every bolt. The bolts don't come in 1/16" lenghts.
As far as thread length, "The Standard Aircraft Handbook - 5th Edition"
states on page 103: "A nut is not run to the bottom of the threads on the
bolt... In the case of self-locking stop nuts, if from one to three
threads of the bolt extend through the nut, it is considered
satisfactory." Also on page 103: "Be certain that the grip length is
correct... bolts of slightly greater grip length can be used if washers
(note washers, PLURAL - Ed) are placed under the nut or bolthead." This
implies that at LEAST two can be used.
>when I first called him for the inspection he asked me what kind of wood
i used for
>the plane. I paid him 450.00 and he went home.
Sounds like you need a different inspector. Did you check with the local
FSDO? I know some people have had difficulty obtaining an FAA-type
person for the inspection, but the local guy here will come out with 2-3
day notice and inspect the airplane for free. He is very friendly,
knowledgeable, and knows what he's doing.
Good luck,
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rscott(at)wnstar.com (Richard Scott) |
| Subject: | Re: engine quits |
Bob,
I had a similar problem in my Interstate Cadet when it came out of
restoration. Had to keep the rpm's up to around 1400 to keep it running,
which made for some interesting, loooooong landings. I believe it was dirt
(well, stuff that broke loose when fuel lines were connected) in the carb,
getting under the needle valve. Fortunately for us, it usually only quit
on rollout. Problem was cured when the mechanic who had sold me the engine
replaced the carb.
Dick Scott
>
>Fellow RVers,
> I have a friend who has a 180 hp, fuel injected Lycoming in his RV-6A.
>The injector is Bendix, the spider and filter are Airflow Performance. The
>engine has 125 hours since new. The high pressure fuel pump is blast cooled
>and the fuel lines are firesleeved. The engine operated fine up until just
>lately. Most of the flights were conducted in very hot, plains weather.
>Now, when the throttle is retarded to around 16-18" m.p., the engine
>backfires and quits. The problem is occuring at 65-70 degrees F. Once on
>the ground, it will start back up. The engine quit on downwind and on
>final. Naturally, he won't be flying it again until the problem is solved.
>He has a positive fuel flow indication and feels certain that fuel is making
>it to the engine. He has the fuel flow transducer mounted on top of the
>engine close to the spider (possible airlock?). Also, he has no return line
>to vent air locks.
> Any ideas out there in RV land?
>
>Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hamilton McClymont <hammcc(at)istar.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Fever and Cure solicitation |
<< I'm merely curious as to what happens to
all the empanages that were built by people who ultimately decided not
to continue. >>
If I wind up in that boat, it'll be my headstone.
Ham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
charset="iso-8859-1"
Tom,
I don't know if "cutting your own" is normal for the rest of the kit. I
am only on the fuselage. Actually I am sorting out fuselage parts.
I found that I could cut all the plate, flat stock and sheet with hand
shears or a hacksaw. If you can use it as an excuse for buying a
variable speed band saw I say buy one. I just couldn't but one. Hand
sawing only takes a few minutes to fifteen minutes at a time, though.
Steve
Huntington, Vermont
I am working on the rear wing spar now for a RV-6 and find out
that the
spar reinforcements and plates all have to be cut from stock and
fabricated. In the empannage kit this was all done for you. My
questions
are: 1 - Is this going to be normal for the rest of the kit? and
2 - If so,
what is the best way to cut the stock? Should I purchase a
bandsaw or does
some other way work better? I am going to have the first pieces
professionally sheared at a metal shop, but I would like to be
able to do
it myself from now on.
Regards
Tom Velvick
RV-6 wings
Phoenix, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
<< Heck, my fish I caught in Hawaii in my boat only cost me a little over
#1300.00 each >>
How much was that per pound?
________________________________________________________________________________
<< The lower rudder attach fitting bolt was missing at the
impact site, and there was no evidence that the bolt was in place at the
time of
the accident.
Probable Cause was the in-flight disconnection of the horizontal and
vertical stabilizer forward attachments.
>>
Put another way: the report says that there were bolts missing in the tail
and may not have been there before the flight. The twisting of parts
separating from the plane would have left some dings around the bolt holes if
there had been some bolts in place.
But, I'm curious why the report didn't mention anything about any reason for
the missing bolts. We'll probably never know.
I firmly believe in Murphy. One would probably need all the bolts in place
with torqued on nuts if you fly an airplane. This is why I like to give the
plane a good shake during preflight, just to see if anything rattles that
shouldn't. Preflight good and land with the shiney side up.
Gene Francis cafgef(at)aol.com
Drilling cannopy, wiring radio, fitting thermocouples etc. 90% done 90% to go
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HinkleyC(at)fca.gov |
| Subject: | Re: Cowling Inside Treatment |
* * * * The views expressed in this EMail are my own and do not represent
the policy or position * * * *
* * * * of the Farm Credit Administration. * * * *
Ed,
You know, since you " talked to Van himself about a new EPOXY cowl during
the homecoming" that makes it your responsibility to brief the rest of the
RV-List.
Curtis Hinkley
RV-8 N815RV reserved
chinkley(at)ix.netcom.com
hinkleyc(at)fca.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)OSA.STATE.SC.US> |
| Subject: | riveting trim tab piano hinge |
charset="iso-8859-1"
Tom,
As I recall, I had the same problem. Later I bought a 3/8" diameter
squeezer set that would have made it much easier.
Ken Harrill
RV - 6, waiting on fuselage
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Velvick [SMTP:caljet.com!tvelvick(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 1997 11:51 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: riveting trim tab piano hinge
I had a real hard time riveting my elevator trim tab hinge on.
I used the
Avery hand squeezers and did not have room to squeeze the last
few rivets
without bending the hinge. I wonder if anyone has come up with
an easier
way to do this without messing up the hinge?
Regards,
Tom Velvick
rv-6 wings and redoing trim tab
Phoenix, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting parts |
Thomas Velvick wrote:
>
>
> I am working on the rear wing spar now for a RV-6 and find out that the
> spar reinforcements and plates all have to be cut from stock and
> fabricated. In the empannage kit this was all done for you. My questions
> are: 1 - Is this going to be normal for the rest of the kit? and 2 - If so,
> what is the best way to cut the stock? Should I purchase a bandsaw or does
> some other way work better? I am going to have the first pieces
> professionally sheared at a metal shop, but I would like to be able to do
> it myself from now on.
>
> Regards
> Tom Velvick
> RV-6 wings
> Phoenix, AZ
>
Get yourself a cutoff tool and a handful of the Norton cutoff wheels that
Van's sells. I cut almost everything with this combo, and certainly use
it more than tin snips!
Ed Cole RV6A #24430
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)OSA.STATE.SC.US> |
charset="iso-8859-1"
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Velvick [SMTP:caljet.com!tvelvick(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 1997 11:35 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Cutting parts
Tom,
I just finished with my wings that were prepunched and will soon start
with the fuselage that is not prepunched. I cannot imagine making it
this far in my project without a bandsaw, and I suspect that the
fuselage will require its use even more. My bandsaw is a table model
from Harbor Freight. It works fine, but if I were to do it over I would
buy a better quality one.
Hope this helps.
Ken Harrill
RV - 6, waiting on the fuselage
I am working on the rear wing spar now for a RV-6 and find out
that the
spar reinforcements and plates all have to be cut from stock and
fabricated. In the empannage kit this was all done for you. My
questions
are: 1 - Is this going to be normal for the rest of the kit? and
2 - If so,
what is the best way to cut the stock? Should I purchase a
bandsaw or does
some other way work better? I am going to have the first pieces
professionally sheared at a metal shop, but I would like to be
able to do
it myself from now on.
Regards
Tom Velvick
RV-6 wings
Phoenix, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: rough running at certain RPM's |
<< At around 1600-1900 RPM,
the engine surges about 100 rpm, ie doesent seem to want to run at a
constant RPM. >>
Joe,
Try checking for induction leaks. Make sure the rubbers around the inducton
tubes are tight and are not cracking. Make sure the carb is snug against the
sump. And make sure the flanges at the top of your induction tubes are in the
slots of their retainers. An induction leak would give you this symtom.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jbalbierer(at)nysyr.ang.af.mil |
charset=US-ASCII
A table top band saw is a must, as is a drill press and table top belt
sander. You get away without these items, but you're project will last
much longer.
John Balbierer
-------------
Original Text
________________________________________________________________________________
AM:
I am working on the rear wing spar now for a RV-6 and find out that the
spar reinforcements and plates all have to be cut from stock and
fabricated. In the empannage kit this was all done for you. My questions
are: 1 - Is this going to be normal for the rest of the kit? and 2 - If so,
what is the best way to cut the stock? Should I purchase a bandsaw or does
some other way work better? I am going to have the first pieces
professionally sheared at a metal shop, but I would like to be able to do
it myself from now on.
Regards
Tom Velvick
RV-6 wings
Phoenix, AZ
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Buy the bandsaw.
Bench top, single speed is fine.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CHRIS.BROWNE(at)bge.com |
| Subject: | TOOLS FOR THE QUICKBUILD KIT |
I have chosen the empennage/quickbuild kits RV6A option.
I have been told that the quickbuild option won't save any on the
required tools. My list is topping $2000, but I am an admitted tool
junkie. Questions about the big ticket items:
1. How useful is the drill press beyond the instrument panel?
2. Why would I need a bandsaw?
3. A 2X rivet guns is lighter and smaller. Might it be a better
choice since alot of the heavy, laborious riveting is complete? 4.
The factory has suggested that I won't get much use from the Wiss
snips since the newer kits are cut more precisely.
5. Is a 1" belt sander still useful in my situation?
Thanx
Chris Browne
RV6A Pre-View
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: engine quits |
>
>I had problems with my engine quitting on rollout at idle (O-320-E2D).
>Thought I had fule problems with the carb as engine was very hard to start
>after quitting. Turned out new mags cured all. It might be ignition and
>not fuel related.
>
>RB
Richard,
I forgot to mention. This engine has one mag and one, Jeff Rose
electronic ignition. With two different spark sources, I'm guessing that
it's not ignition related.
Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
>
>Put another way: the report says that there were bolts missing in the tail
>and may not have been there before the flight.
Gene, this is what bugs me about this report. It does NOT !!! say that
there were bolts missing in the tail.
It says the HS and VS became "disconnected" in flight. They don't say if
they pulled away or broke or were glued on or how they even know such a
thing happened.
If the bolts broke, there should have been pieces sticking out of the
fuselage. If the bolts pulled out there should be big holes in the
fuselage bulkhead. If the HS/VS pulled away the bolts should still be in
the fuselage with pieces of the splice plate still attached.
Then, at the end of the report, they sort of casually throw in that there
was a bolt missing from the rudder bottom. Is this supposed to be related
somehow?
We need to hear from Bill/Van and get some kind of coherent explanation of
this accident. If the HS /VS were not properly bolted to the fuselage
then say so. If they were, then how did they fail? Maybe Van will need
to do some testing of the tails to verify the design calculations.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | riveting trim tab piano hinge |
>I had a real hard time riveting my elevator trim tab hinge on. I used the
>Avery hand squeezers and did not have room to squeeze the last few rivets
>without bending the hinge. I wonder if anyone has come up with an easier
>way to do this without messing up the hinge?
>Tom Velvick
Tom,
Did your flush set crush a hinge loop? If so, grind on the flush set
until it clears. If your yoke has clearance problems, you might have to do a
little grinding on it, as well.
Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | circuit breaker switches |
>Bob, you must have purchased some awfully expensive circuit breakers/circuit
>breaker switches. My entire array for a VFR panel cost under $200.00 total,
>including master and avionics switches. However, I do agree that changing them
>out on a buss bar is no fun if they are located near the bottom of the panel.
>
>Les Williams/RV-6AQ
Les is right. I don't know where I came up with the $400.00 figure. It
was just stuck in my mind, I guess. I'm sure I wrote a list message
concerning how much money I would have saved had I followed Bob Nuckholls'
advice but couldn't find it. Possibly, the $400 figure is what I spent on
the electrical system.
Anyway, counting up all my breakers, switch/breakers and fuse holders, I
came up with a cost of $236.00. I have 6 sw/cb's and 9 cb's and at least 8
fuse holders for the AGC type fuses. So, the fuse block idea still would
save some $$$ and some weight. Plus, hookups would be much easier as would
adding more circuits.
Sorry for the mis-information.
Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Jackson <denny(at)transport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowling Inside Treatment |
The new cowls look really nice and are unbelievably light, probably
about half the weight of the old polyester resin ones. It should keep
the finish nice and smooth with age, unlike mine which is showing the
weave. Wish they had one for the -4.
DJ
>
> Ed,
>
> You know, since you " talked to Van himself about a new EPOXY cowl during
> the homecoming" that makes it your responsibility to brief the rest of the
> RV-List.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chris marion <flyrv6(at)cinci.infi.net> |
Dear listers,
I would like to here your thoughts and experiences with aileron trim.Is
it needed?advantages/disadvantages?electric vs manual?
thanks in advance
chris marion
rv-6 wings ordered
cinci. oh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Jackson <denny(at)transport.com> |
Does anyone have any experience postitive or negative with current
electronic ignition systems? I only want to replace one mag. I'm
thinking about getting either a Jeff Rose (Electroair) or Claus Xavier
(Lightspeed) system but I only know one person running one of these. I
also tried to contact the Empire people but got no reply after 2 or 3
tries. Must be busy! Forget about the Slick unit. Way too expensive.
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <r.acker(at)thegrid.net> |
| Subject: | Re: TOOLS FOR THE QUICKBUILD KIT |
> I have chosen the empennage/quickbuild kits RV6A option.
I have a quickbuild...
>
> 1. How useful is the drill press beyond the instrument panel?
Use mine all the time (lightening holes, straight holes through control
surface hinge points, etc).
> 2. Why would I need a bandsaw?
At times wish I had one, but make do with a hacksaw or die grinder/cutoff
wheel.
> 3. A 2X rivet guns is lighter and smaller. Might it be a better
> choice since alot of the heavy, laborious riveting is complete?
You have *plenty* of 1/8" rivets left to drive. I have a 3x that I
consider bare minimum for these rivets.
4. The factory has suggested that I won't get much use from the Wiss
> snips since the newer kits are cut more precisely.
What? Gotta be a joke, these are absolutely mandatory. The very first
thing you do on the quickbuild is cut the seat skins and baggage floors
from sheet aluminum...how else would you do it?
5. Is a 1" belt sander still useful in my situation?
This is one item I wish I had...but since I'm near the $3K mark in tools I
keep putting it off.
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowling Inside Treatment |
New cowl is $315 for the type S (epoxy honeycomb). I'm ordering one with
my 6A finishing kit. Details accompany the Order Form on the Options page.
Dennis 6A fuselage out of jig - ordering finishing kit
----------
> From: Ed Bundy <juno.com!ebundy(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Cowling Inside Treatment
> Date: Tuesday, September 16, 1997 8:40 AM
>
>
> > I left mine unfinished----saves weight & is cheap. You might want to
> >consider filling the weave a bit with some some resin as it would make
> >cleanup a little easier.
>
>
>
> BTW, I haven't seen this mentioned on the list yet, but Van's is working
> on a new EPOXY cowl. No word on when it will be available, but they have
> one installed on the "new" airplane (RV9?) and it looks really nice. I
> got a chance to talk to Van himself about it during the homecoming.
>
>
>
> Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
> ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
>
> -
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Costello <bcos(at)ix5.ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting parts |
>
>I am working on the rear wing spar now for a RV-6 and find out that the
>spar reinforcements and plates all have to be cut from stock and
>fabricated. In the empannage kit this was all done for you. My questions
>are: 1 - Is this going to be normal for the rest of the kit? and 2 - If so,
>what is the best way to cut the stock? Should I purchase a bandsaw or does
>some other way work better?
>Regards
>Tom Velvick
>RV-6 wings
>Phoenix, AZ
>
A band saw worked great for me.
Bill Costello
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: inspection rv-4 |
I stopped being aggravated after a day or two and regained some sense of
patience and knew I just needed to do what the dar said and get it over
with. I called Van's about the spacer to crank bolts. Mine only have
e11 on the head. That's the same thing the man at van's said their's
had on the head. I was just getting impatient to fly, I wasn't really
upset with the DAR, he was just trying to cover his butt. He did say he
wanted me to sign one of those absolution of liability forms (or
whatever). I don't know if I will. (then again, I probably will if i
want the air worthiness certificate.) Oh, well I'm just waiting for
some new bolts to come in. This ain't the whole story by a long shot.
See ya.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
>with the fuselage that is not prepunched. I cannot imagine
making it
>this far in my project without a bandsaw, and I suspect that
the
>fuselage will require its use even more. My bandsaw is a table
model
I'll have to agree with Ed, my bandsaw was the biggest waste of money
and space (besides myself, of course) so far. The air cut-off tool with
the norton disc cuts through anything, comes out very straight, and
leaves a pretty nice edge that doesn't take much work to finish. Nor
does it have a length limitation like the band saw. Perhaps if I'd
spend *lots* of money on a super sweet bandsaw I'd be singing a
different tune, but the $39 cut-off tool kicks buttocks.
Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA N727MF (reserved)
RV-6AQME starting canopy work
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
| Subject: | TOOLS FOR THE QUICKBUILD KIT |
>
> 1. How useful is the drill press beyond the instrument panel?
>
I use mine all the time. Get a nice center-finding
jig for drilling tubes/pipes too, it's cheap and pays
for itself when drilling control rods. The press is
also handy for drilling all the plastic blocks, etc.
> 2. Why would I need a bandsaw?
>
I'd like to hear of even *one* part that was easier
and more accurate to cut on a bandsaw than
using a cut-off tool with a norton disc.
> 3. A 2X rivet guns is lighter and smaller. Might it be a better
> choice since alot of the heavy, laborious riveting is complete?
>
I've been happy with my 3X (no smileys), and
Ed Cole has beeen happy with his 2X so who
knows. Get a 2X and borrow the 3X if/when
you need it I guess.
4. The factory has suggested that I won't get much use
from the Wiss
> snips since the newer kits are cut more precisely.
>
I use my left and right-turning Weiss snips all the
time. I was pretty happy when I discovered I could
even cut through .040 pretty easily and still get a
nice straight cut.
> 5. Is a 1" belt sander still useful in my situation?
>
Oh yeah. I got a fairly cheap Dremel sander which
has a 1" belt up front and the 6" disc on the side.
Don't think it was much over $100 (could have been
as low as $69) and I use it all the time.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
I agree with Randall to buy a bandsaw, but not a single speed if you want to
cut 4130 steel without ruining your blade. Even the thicker alumimum cuts a
lot better with a slower speed. I started out hacksawing my first RV, bought
a Sear's single speed to finish it, then gave it to a friend for helping me
and to use on his project. When I started my QB, I bought a Black & Decker
table top variable speed model. Works great. Wish I had spent the extra
bucks to start with.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Randall Henderson
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 1997 12:48 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Cutting parts
Buy the bandsaw.
Bench top, single speed is fine.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | TOOLS FOR THE QUICKBUILD KIT |
Chris, my thoughts on this. I have done a regular kit and almost finished
with a QB airframe.
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of
bge.com!CHRIS.BROWNE(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 1997 12:46 PM
Subject: RV-List: TOOLS FOR THE QUICKBUILD KIT
I have been told that the quickbuild option won't save any on the
required tools. My list is topping $2000, but I am an admitted tool
junkie. Questions about the big ticket items:
1. How useful is the drill press beyond the instrument panel? Almost
essential to have access to one, but not necessarily for the instrument panel
as you can get a punch for the round instrument holes.
2. Why would I need a bandsaw? You can hacksaw, but you'll tire of that
quickly. There are still quite a few pieces to cut from angle, sheet stock,
tubing, etc.
3. A 2X rivet guns is lighter and smaller. Might it be a better
choice since alot of the heavy, laborious riveting is complete?
Actually, there's still quite a few 1/8" rivet jobs to do too. I use an
AV-11 Ingorsall-Rand which is about mid-way between a 3X and a 2X, but a good
2X should handle them.
4. The factory has suggested that I won't get much use from the Wiss
snips since the newer kits are cut more precisely. These will be an almost
must have and they're not that expensive I still use my three pairs of
Diamond snips a lot. Wiss ones leave a really rough edge.
5. Is a 1" belt sander still useful in my situation? Useful to finish
cut edges and shape parts before polishing them on a buffer. I probably use
the disc sander as much or more.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ
Thanx
Chris Browne
RV6A Pre-View
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
I need one of those poh's right away if you can mail me one. Thanks.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
Thanks to all those who replied to my inspection post. It gave me a
little more energy to keep going on this project. Thanks. Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Transcribed from the current Options Sheet:
Type S Cowl (RV6/6A) The standard cowl for the RV-6/6A is a
polyester/fiberglass wet lay-up. Because of the shrinkage inherent in
polyesters, it often requires some extra work to fit perfectly. The Type S
cowl is made of epoxy pre-preg fiberglass with a honeycomb core. Although
the materials are more expensive, they form a more accurate part, making
the cowl much easier to fit, Epoxy resins are more stable which means the
cowl will withstand heat and wear better over time, The Type S requires
slightly more finish work before painting, but comes with a pre-molded oil
door and molded recess that makes mounting the induction scoop quick and
easy, Time to install should be significantly less. The Type S also (sic)
cowl weights 7.5 lbs. less than the stock cowl.
Dennis 6A fuselage out of jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RAINPOOF(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV-6A wingkit/engine ForSale |
I am waiting for the quick-build 8 so have decided to sell my empanage kit
(finished) and the wing kit which is all jigged and clecoed(both wings) with
the Phlogiston spar. The Engine is an 0-320 A2A 150hp with 1000 hrs since
first run major, complete with all accessorieis and logs. also have complete
ste of Omdorf tapes.
Price is $14500 or best offer. E-mail at Rainpoof(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net> |
"UNSUBSCRIBE"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wmills(at)southwind.net (William H. Mills) |
>
>my father worked hard all his life, got an artifical heart valve, and now
>is pretty much stuck flying RC model planes. No ones guarantying you a
>medical. Times a wastin'.
>
I can only say "ditto" to that...fortunately, I was able to get mine back
and so far have been able to keep it (Type II diabetes is a bit easier to
sell the Feds on than cardiac problems, though if I don't keep *tight*
control of my condition, diabetics are prime coronary disease candidates...
:-{ ).
Bill Mills
Wichita
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Haan <bobh(at)cdac.com> |
I would like to learn from the group what is the best shop lighting. Would
like to learn about lamp/fixture type, spacing pattern, etc.
I recently moved to a new shop. The old 2 stall garage shop had about 15 4
ft double bulb fluorescent fixtures. I think they were 20 watt bulbs.
Lighting was good.
New shop is 3 stall garage with 5 fluorescent 2 foot 2 20 watt bulb
fixtures in a finished ceiling. Lighting is poor.
I tried one mercury vapor outdoor light - 150 watts and 4300 lumens but it
is not bright and there are shadows. Also, tried halogen flood lights - 3
per fixture at 90 watts and 1280 lumens each. Also not very bright.
Beginning to think fluorescent is best. Would like to know the spacing for
good shop lighting.
Bob
***********************************************
Bob Haan Office 503-579-3675
Cascade Design Automation Mobile 503-720-1132
Pacific Northwest FAX 503-579-4458
District Sales Manager mailto:bobh(at)cdac.com
See our web page at http://www.cdac.com
***********************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Answer(?) to Commonality Question |
Hi All,
1.) Why are the factory planes normally painted white?
2.) Why is there an air inlet plenum over the engine on the factory planes?
Does one answer apply for both?
Yes. It costs less.
All of those that answered showed that some thought had gone into their
answer. Great.
1.) From PPG, white is the least expensive, while red is the most expensive,
color for paint.
2.) By using the cowl for the top of the airbox, the top half of the airbox
is already completed on a "spam can". Extra material would be required,
(higher manufacturing cost) if a lower "top" was provided over the engine
under the cowl.
After performing fluid flow calculations for air cooled traveling wave tubes,
I noticed that the reasons given for the "spam can" airbox (plenum) over the
engine were counterdicted by both the fluid flow empirical data and the flow
calculations I was performing.
At first glance, the normal RV engine installation has three flow
restrictions. First, the air inlet opening. Second, the flow through the
engine cooling fins. Third, the flow outlet at the bottom of the cowl
(tunnel).
However, there are two more flow restrictions, or flow losses. There is
approximately a 70% flow loss from the air inlet to the engine (assuming an
expansion to 6 times the volume with a contraction to the original volume).
And a slightly larger flow loss from the engine to the cowl outlet (larger
expansion/contraction).
I had taken only the first step in obtaining a noticable reduction in cooling
drag on the O-290 engine in my RV-3. I installed a tunnel over each side of
the engine (a box on each side). The front of the box sealed to the lip of
the cowling air inlet. BTW, compared to the typical baffling, this ended up
being easier to design and build.
For the engine cooling air outlet, a similar box wuld be great, but the
exhaust pipes, carburator, etc. make this very difficult. However, It helps
to form as large a radius as possible on the bottom engine baffling outlet.
This was only my first step. The cooling was improved to the point that my
Lycoming O-290 engine was running too cold with the 38 sq. in. inlet area.
So the next change provides a direct benefit. Reduce the size of the air
inlet. Which, of course, means the internal ducting/box needs to change,
also. Which is why there are no plans for this airbox.
At least one other person is working on this.
________________________________________________________________________________
area to two thirds (60 sq. in. to 40 sq. in.) and might have seen a 1 mph
increase. I decreased the air inlet size by one half (from 52 sq. in. to 26
sq. in.) and saw a 6 mph increase. (I reduced the inlet area first.)
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A engine Ivoprop VP Prop Sportcraft Antennas
RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, California USA
http://member.aol.com/lesdrag/rv3.htm
http://member.aol.com/lesdrag/Ivoprop.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Service and Maintenance Manual |
When I was thinking about the POH discussion, I remembered that I had to
prepare a Service & Maintenance Manual for the new owners of my beloved RV-6A
that I sold a couple of years ago. I got this from EAA and it was a fill-in
the blanks type thing. Some of it was not applicable, but all-in-all it was
interesting to fill out and I think would be a good thing for any amateur
built plane to have. Also, it included some information which would be
appropriate for a POH. I think it cost $3.00, but I don't remember for sure.
So those of you working on a POH (and others) might want to check with EAA to
get this and anything else they might have that would help with your
endeavors.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ELX Ignitions |
>Does anyone have any experience postitive or negative with current
>electronic ignition systems? I only want to replace one mag. I'm
>DJ
DJ,
I'm using Jeff Rose's electronic ignition. I'm satisfied with it. It
would have been smarter of me to buy it right off the bat instead of
overhauling my mags a few years ago. I like everything about the
installation (direct mag replacement) with the exception of how the
automotive wires are attached to the spark plugs. I much prefer the
aircraft method. With the auto wires, the nut compresses a rubber washer
which grips the wire. If you tighten too much, you break the center
conductor. In other words, the nut does not tighten down solidly to the
plug. I serviced my plugs today and applied a little DC-4 to the wire &
rubber grommet so that it was easier to tighten the nut without twisting the
wire around. I'm not sure this is the best idea. We'll see. I'm not
familiar with how Klaus's system handles this but would be interested in
knowing.
I did pick up around 40 rpms at full throttle cruise and my take off and
climb at higher density altitudes has improved a bit. My fuel burn is down
5-10%.
Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: inspection rv-4 |
Ac43-13, long the bible for A&P covers the bolt and washer issue. DAR is
wrong but I might agree with him if the bolts in question are the prop bolts.
Grip length is very important in order to be able to torque bolts properly.
Lots of washers under different length bolts looks sloppy and not pro. Tony
B. books great. I do believe 3 washers ok if at least 1 and no more than 5
or is it 3 threads showing. Next time get a FAA man ----you pay for his
srevices with your taxes. Also, I have this thing about not paying people who
are supposed to be an expert and do not know a darn thing---tell him he will
get hids money when you get to fly. Call him and ask for your money back and
tell him why and the FAA. Have your documentation. Jim.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Studs |
Have you thought about Rosan studs? These are used on
turbo Continentals, the 520 anyway. You will have to machine a small
counterbore to receive the locking ring , but the tool to do this is
available. Your local FBO should be able to show you these...
Good luck. Markvn(at)aol.com Finishing empenage, working on engine...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: riveting trim tab piano hinge |
On the last few rivets I used a monel pop rivet that Vans sold me, they
come in real handy where the squeeser won:t fit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
>
>I agree with Randall to buy a bandsaw, but not a single speed if you want to
>cut 4130 steel without ruining your blade. Even the thicker alumimum cuts a
Les,
... I agree with Randall on this one. You are correct about the
difficulty with 4130, but the amount of 4130 in an RV kit that needs
cutting is pretty minimal.
I have a single speed Delta bench top model and it's fine for all of
the aluminum in the RV kits. And, combined with my 1 inch Delta belt
sander, it really does save a lot of time.
Use a cut-off wheel and a bench grinder for the minimal amount of
4130 that needs cutting (I can't even think of any 4130 parts that needed
cutting at this time ...:^)
Gil (single speed's OK) Alexander
Finish kit ....
>lot better with a slower speed. I started out hacksawing my first RV,
bought
>a Sear's single speed to finish it, then gave it to a friend for helping me
>and to use on his project. When I started my QB, I bought a Black & Decker
>table top variable speed model. Works great. Wish I had spent the extra
>bucks to start with.
>
>Les Williams/RV-6AQ
>
>----------
>
>
>Buy the bandsaw.
>
>Bench top, single speed is fine.
>
-------------------------------------------------------
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
Look into the newer T-8 bulbs. I had been buying
those cheapo 4' fluorescent shop lights for about
$10 but they don't last too long and don't have
good reflectors or give off much light.
A few months ago I splurged about $50 on a new
electronic balast T-8 fluorescent shop light and
WOW! Brightest I could find was 32 watts bulbs
and besides turning on instantly, they seem about
twice as bright as normal tubes. Good stuff.
I never thought I'd be so emphatic about
fluorescent lights, this can't be good...
P.S. Okay, so I used my bandsaw tonight to cut
the center rudder support block in half. So it has
it's uses, big deal. ;)
Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA N727MF (reserved)
RV-6AQME starting canopy work
> ----------
> From: Bob Haan[SMTP:cdac.com!bobh(at)matronics.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 1997 9:07 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Shop Lighting
>
>
> I would like to learn from the group what is the best shop lighting.
> Would
> like to learn about lamp/fixture type, spacing pattern, etc.
>
> I recently moved to a new shop. The old 2 stall garage shop had about
> 15 4
> ft double bulb fluorescent fixtures. I think they were 20 watt bulbs.
> Lighting was good.
>
> New shop is 3 stall garage with 5 fluorescent 2 foot 2 20 watt bulb
> fixtures in a finished ceiling. Lighting is poor.
>
> I tried one mercury vapor outdoor light - 150 watts and 4300 lumens
> but it
> is not bright and there are shadows. Also, tried halogen flood lights
> - 3
> per fixture at 90 watts and 1280 lumens each. Also not very bright.
>
> Beginning to think fluorescent is best. Would like to know the
> spacing for
> good shop lighting.
>
> Bob
> ***********************************************
> Bob Haan Office 503-579-3675
> Cascade Design Automation Mobile 503-720-1132
> Pacific Northwest FAX 503-579-4458
> District Sales Manager mailto:bobh(at)cdac.com
>
> See our web page at http://www.cdac.com
> ***********************************************
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
What recommendations can anybody give for interior paint?
I'd like something I can get in a can as well as by the quart
if there is such a thing. I'll be spraying big things (like seats,
electric flap covers, etc.) with a HVLP spray gun, but I'd like
something available in spray can as well so I can shoot
small areas in place and touch up things over the years
of heavy flying that I can only dream of doing.
Light dove gray.
Anybody?
P.S. I picked up my new engine last week, and in case
anybody is interested it fits in the back of a Ford
Expedition with about 1/2 inch to spare on the upper corners!
411 pounds, Fed Ex!
Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA N727MF (reserved)
RV-6AQME starting canopy work
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting parts |
>I'll have to agree with Ed, my bandsaw was the biggest waste of
>money and space (besides myself, of course) so far. The air cut-off
>tool with the norton disc cuts through anything, comes out very
>straight, and leaves a pretty nice edge that doesn't take much work
>to finish. Nor does it have a length limitation like the band saw.
>Perhaps if I'd spend *lots* of money on a super sweet bandsaw I'd
>be singing a different tune, but the $39 cut-off tool kicks buttocks.
This sounds great. Unfortunately, my compressor is too small to drive
the cutting tool for very long. My Black + Decker variable band saw
that I had for model airplane work has filled the bill. I guess one has
to look at tools from the start and buy the expensive compressor up
front. I may buy one later; but, I'm hoping to make it to the first of the
year before I do. Maybe one should look at using a hack saw until
getting the compressor to keep down tool costs. I've found that tools
have been a major expense to my project. Fortunately, I can use
many of them for other things around the house.
Jim Sears
RV-6A #22220 (bottom skins on, ready to turn the fuselage over!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
I'm about to cut the hinges for the cowl, which means I just finished the
bottom skins finally. The question deals with the piano wire in the
hinges. When the hinges are cut, the wire is also cut. Does one have
to buy extra wire for the hinges so that the extra length can be had; or,
does one cut the hinges without the wire and end up throwing away
part of the hinge material at the end. I'm betting one buys more wire;
but, I want to verify.
I may end up using screws for the bottom and top fuselage/cowl
mounting. Not sure, yet.
Jim Sears
RV-6A #22220 (fuselage ready to turn over, finally)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HinkleyC(at)fca.gov |
| Subject: | Re: TOOLS FOR THE QUICKBUILD KIT |
* * * * The views expressed in this EMail are my own and do not represent
the policy or position * * * *
* * * * of the Farm Credit Administration. * * * *
Chris,
It looks like you have received enough advice to justify all of the tools
on your list. We have all of them and we are glad that we have them.
1. The rivet gun 2x vs 3x is a Ford vs Chev argument, its whatever
you get use to. We use the 2x and it will drive any rivet in any
RV. We run our air through a 50ft hose and set the pressure at the tank at
45psi, this gives us 40psi at the gun for 3/32 rivets, and 55psi
for the 1/8 rivets. Since we are building RV-8's our spars came
assembled, however we did pick up some 3/16 rivets to play with. The 2x
gun at 110psi will drive a 3/16 rivet with no problem.
2. We have the 2" belt sander that Cleveland sells, however we
rarely use sandpaper. We bought 3M scotchbrite belts
which work great.
Curtis Hinkley
RV-8 N815RV reserved
chinkley(at)ix.netcom.com
hinkleyc(at)fca.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lm4(at)juno.com (Larry Mac Donald) |
Put another way: It does NOT !!! say
that there were bolts missing in the tail
We need to hear from Bill/Van and get some kind of coherent explanation
of this accident. If the HS /VS were not properly bolted to the
fuselage then say so. If they were, then how did they fail? Maybe Van
will need to do some testing of the tails to verify the design
calculations. John
While the report is pretty muddy,it gets even muddier.
While lecturing last night, Bill B. mentioned that it is an important
matter and they, of course, are looking into it. But, it seems ( I hope
I'm repeating this correctly ) the gov,t has another theory. That being
the very worst possible combination of circumstances. Two instructors in
one plane.
Doing aerobatics low to the ground, under a low cloud cover. Each trying
to fly the plane until a "violent" separation of parts of the emp.
Larry Mac Donald
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PhilipR920(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: TOOLS FOR THE QUICKBUILD KIT |
I have been working on my 6AQ since last November and find that the drill
press, bandsaw, snips, and belt sander are invaluable.
I can't comment on the 2X rivet gun as I use a 3X. The 3X has been very
satisfactory. I reduce the air pressure based on the size rivet driven.
Phil Rogerson
6AQ60057
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hamilton McClymont <hammcc(at)istar.ca> |
| Subject: | Brampton accident |
________________________________________________________________________________
> Larry Weeks, principal trumpet of the Toronto Symphony Orchestra, was >killed
yesterday in a plane crash,according to the Canadian >Broadcasting Service:
>
>Police said the plane was a home-made aircraft assembled from a kit. >They say,
Larry Weeks' single-engine plane went down on its maiden >flight at the Brampton
Flying Club. Investigators from Transport >Canada believe engine failure
may have caused the accident.
I presume this was the RV mentioned on the list yesterday. Larry was a
superbe musician.
Requiem aeternam
Hammy [CYVR]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: inspection rv-4 |
aol.com!JRWillJR(at)matronics.com wrote:
> Ac43-13, long the bible for A&P covers the bolt and washer issue.
Please give me the page and/or paragraph numbers. I couldn't find it.
Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: inspection rv-4 |
He did say he
>wanted me to sign one of those absolution of liability forms (or
>whatever). I don't know if I will. (then again, I probably will if i
>want the air worthiness certificate.)
Wouldn't the worry of liablity be the reason for such a high
inspection fee?
Have a good day!
Denny,
RV-6 (R)N641DH
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
>but, I want to verify.
>
>I may end up using screws for the bottom and top fuselage/cowl
>mounting. Not sure, yet.
>
>Jim Sears
>RV-6A #22220 (fuselage ready to turn over, finally)
>
Jim there was a few messages awhile back about the bottom hinges cracking on
some A/C. There was a recommendation to do as you are considering screws
(camlocks would be easier in removing) or go to Stainless steel hinges on
the bottom.
Have a good day!
Denny,
RV-6 (R)N641DH
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
>
>I'm about to cut the hinges for the cowl, which means I just finished the
>bottom skins finally. The question deals with the piano wire in the
>hinges. When the hinges are cut, the wire is also cut. Does one have
>to buy extra wire for the hinges so that the extra length can be had; or,
>does one cut the hinges without the wire and end up throwing away
>part of the hinge material at the end. I'm betting one buys more wire;
>but, I want to verify.
>
>
You will not need to buy more wire. Cut the hinge material without the pin
in place. You will discard some hinge material and have enough pin for the
joint.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV (Inspection on Saturday)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: inspection rv-4 |
>
> I was just getting impatient to fly,
It will be worth it...
Richard E. Bibb Direct: 301-571-2507
Vice President, Federal Operations Main: 301-564-4404
Fore Systems Federal, Inc. FAX: 301-564-4408
6905 Rockledge Drive, #800 Pager: 800-719-1246
Bethesda, MD 20817 www.fore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
><< Heck, my fish I caught in Hawaii in my boat only cost me a little over
> #1300.00 each >>
>
>How much was that per pound?
More embarrassment-- about $1300.00 per pound!
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: inspection rv-4 |
>
>aol.com!JRWillJR(at)matronics.com wrote:
>> Ac43-13, long the bible for A&P covers the bolt and washer issue.
>
>Please give me the page and/or paragraph numbers. I couldn't find it.
>
>Finn
Finn .. it's exactly where you would expect it, the start of Chapter 5
'Aircraft Hardware'
Para. 227 BOLTS (b) Grip length.
"In general, bolt-grip lengths should equal the material thickness.
However, bolts of slightly greater grip length may be used provided washers
are placed under the nut or the bolthead. In the case of plate nuts, if
the proper grip length is not available, add shimms under the plate."
There is NO actual limit of three washers stated, but the key word
is SLIGHTLY. I think this would rule out 4 full size washers (I don't
think 0.25 inch extra length is slight).
One option that would solve the original problem might be to make up
a 1/8 or 3/16 circular plate with six hole for the prop bolts and just add
it to the front of the prop (or get the correct length bolts ...:^)
Gil (it's easy to find ..:^) Alexander
-------------------------------------------------------
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net> |
Dennis Persyk wrote:
>
>
> Transcribed from the current Options Sheet:
> Type S Cowl (RV6/6A) The standard cowl for the RV-6/6A is a
> polyester/fiberglass wet lay-up. Because of the shrinkage inherent in
> polyesters, it often requires some extra work to fit perfectly. The Type S
> cowl is made of epoxy pre-preg fiberglass with a honeycomb core. Although
> the materials are more expensive, they form a more accurate part, making
> the cowl much easier to fit, Epoxy resins are more stable which means the
> cowl will withstand heat and wear better over time, The Type S requires
> slightly more finish work before painting, but comes with a pre-molded oil
> door and molded recess that makes mounting the induction scoop quick and
> easy, Time to install should be significantly less. The Type S also (sic)
> cowl weights 7.5 lbs. less than the stock cowl.
>
> Dennis 6A fuselage out of jig
>
>
This is one of the reasons why you don't buy everything up front. You
miss out on the improvements!
Ed Cole
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil> |
John,
Thanks for the offer. I would love to see it. Thanks in advance to any and
all of you who go to the trouble of posting a sample P.O.H. to save us all a
little work.
Mike Wills
RV-4(wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
>I made up a nice POH for my RV-4 after being told that I would need it
>for the FAA inspection last Sept. 24, but they never asked for it. It
>is on Word 6.0 and if someone would tell me how to send it on the
>RV-list net, I would put it on. You can see how it was done and modify
>it to suit your plane.
>
>John Kitz
>N721JK
>155 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Timothy W. Whitman" <71610.2013(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | DAR & PORTLAND VISIT |
After reading Michael Lott's distressing tale of DAR distress I tried to
find where he was located. I will be having my 6-A inspected in the next 3
weeks and want to be sure I don't get HIM. I guess I'll take the risk of
upsetting my DAR by asking for a reference,; if he takes offense maybe I
didn't want him anyway.
ALSO
I just found out it seems I'l be stranded in Portland/Vernonia Sunday 21
Sept. Is there anything of interest RV related which I could visit? I'll
be in Lebanon OR Monday, so attractions in that area are in bounds (by
car).
Tim Whitman
6-A, Engine running, goes to PSM 27 Sept
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scott.fink(at)Microchip.COM (Scott Fink) |
Mitch Faatz
| Subject: | TOOLS FOR THE QUICKBUILD KIT |
--IMA.Boundary.145415478
> 2. Why would I need a bandsaw?
>
I'd like to hear of even *one* part that was easier
and more accurate to cut on a bandsaw than
using a cut-off tool with a norton disc.
Three that come to mind are:
(1) The notch in the doubler for the VS spar (tried it with cut off
wheel and gave up)
(2) The doubler angles for the HS forward spar
(3) Tapering the main wing spar stiffner bars
In addition, the stiffners for the elevators and rudder, the wing rib
support angles, etc were really quickly and accurately cut on the
bandsaw.
Like most other power tools used on the RV it is not ESSENTIAL to have
a bandsaw, but it sure makes the job much easier, quicker, and more
accurate. I got lucky and stumbled on a used full size Rockwell for
$200. One thing you can do is live without a tool like this, but let
everyone you come into contact with know you are looking for a used
one at a good price and you may get lucky too.
Scott Fink
scott.fink(at)microchip.com
RV6 left wing skeleton nearly complete
--IMA.Boundary.145415478
SMTP
-0700
(firewall-user@prometheus-gate.Microchip.COM [198.175.253.129]) by
titan.Microchip.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA27195 for
smap (3.2)
by netcomsv.netcom.com (8.8.5-r-beta/8.8.5/(NETCOM v1.01)) with UUCP id
RAA11850;
From: Mitch Faatz <sagenttech.com!mfaatz(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: TOOLS FOR THE QUICKBUILD KIT
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:03:21 -0700
--IMA.Boundary.145415478--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
> I agree with Randall to buy a bandsaw, but not a single speed if you want to
> cut 4130 steel without ruining your blade.
[snip]
> Les Williams/RV-6AQ
Absolutely! I found out (the hard way) that one cut in a steel part
equals one blade. However, the number of steel parts you have to cut is
pretty low, and the extra cost of a GOOD variable speed saw is generally
a pretty big jump. The main thing is to get SOME kind of bandsaw -- if
you can afford a variable speed, go for it. But if not, at least get a
(good quality) single speed. You won't regret it.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001) |
Hello RVrs,
I have been noticing that many people have not been doing a very good job
of 'aggressively editing quoted text' lately. Especially disturbing is
when the 'list-trailer' is requoted one or more times in a reply...
Please remember that every message sent to the List: 1) is resent to almost
800 other people!, and 2) is appended to a *HUGE* archive file that has been
growing about 1Mb a month of late!
I am asking everyone as the RV-List administrator, as a subscriber of the
RV-List, and as a user of the archives, to *PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO EDIT
MESSAGES POSTED TO THE LIST*. Take a second and edit out all text that
is not necessary like extra header information, the list-trailer, and
any other text that isn't necessary to make your point.
Thank you!!
Matt Dralle
RV-List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
>hinges. When the hinges are cut, the wire is also cut. Does one have
>to buy extra wire for the hinges so that the extra length can be had; or,
>does one cut the hinges without the wire and end up throwing away
>part of the hinge material at the end. I'm betting one buys more wire;
>but, I want to verify.
>
>I may end up using screws for the bottom and top fuselage/cowl
>mounting. Not sure, yet.
>
>Jim Sears
>RV-6A #22220 (fuselage ready to turn over, finally)
Jim,
Remove the wire from the hinges before cutting the hinge material to the
proper length.
Also, I'd vote for replacing hinge with nutplates and screws for: The aft
top cowl, the horizontal bottom cowl (exhaust stack area) and behind the
spinner. I have heard of quite a few incidences of the extruded hinge
behind the spinner breaking along with the two short segments on the bottom
of the lower cowl. Haven't heard of any such problems on the rear of the
top cowl but you can get minor fretting (black streaks) from the hinge
because of the smaller diameter hinge pin used in this area. Using
nutplates in this area also eliminates trying to hit the hinge loops while
reaching your had in through the oil door and the problem of securing the
hinge pins.
Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank rivet sealing |
Rick, I found a few leaks using soapy water during construction, and I
painted the area with Proseal.
Once the wings were on the aircraft, I had a leak from one rivet, and I
applied a "Fuel Tank Sealer" made by Loctite. I bought it in an auto store,
and it is two small sticks of an epoxy material which are mixed by hand and
then applied.
It has worked fine. I intended it to be a temporary fix, buit is still in place.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Jackson <denny(at)transport.com> |
Jim Sears wrote:
> .......> bottom skins finally. The question deals with the piano wire in the
> hinges. When the hinges are cut, the wire is also cut. Does one have
> to buy extra wire for the hinges so that the extra length can be had; or,
> does one cut the hinges without the wire and end up throwing away
> part of the hinge material at the end. I'm betting one buys more wire;
> but, I want to verify.
>
> I may end up using screws for the bottom and top fuselage/cowl
> mounting. Not sure, yet.
>
Pull the wire out of the hinge and cut each hinge side to length, then
cut the wire long enough to leave some sticking out to secure. Throw
away the left over hinge or save for small doors. You will definitely
be cutting some off the hinge, so the wire that's in it should be plenty
long enough.
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JimNolan(at)mail.kconline.com |
Hi all,
I've been reading a lot of comments on DAR's in the RV-List
lately. I've got another comment of my own to make.
The local A&P at our airport just became a DAR about a year ago.
He is a dedicated individual and runs a very tight ship when it comes
to his business. My airplane was one of the first homebuilts to grace
the pavement at my sanctified spam-can airport.
When my RV-4 first flew I got the impression that this guy and
his friends were just waiting for the wings to fall off and hurt some
innocent spam-can observer. Well, its been 600 hrs. and 5 years later
and I still have that impression. Although I have a good relationship
with this A&P, I still think he is very sceptical of kit built
aircraft. I believe last year was the first time he had been to
Oshkosh.
The FAA quit inspecting our aircraft at given intervals because
of the manpower shortage (they claimed). Now they can't keep up with
a one time inspection, so they have went to DAR's. Don't this sound
fishy to you guys.
Is it that they just don't want to take the responsibility of
our inspection. If the FAA doesn't want the responsibility why should
a guy like my local A&P (who doesn't consider a homebuilt a REAL
airplane) want to take that responsibility.
Apparently the advantages of being a DAR goes farther than just
being able to inspect homebuilts. The one's I talked to in Chicago
didn't want anything to do with a homebuilt, and they were DAR's.
If there is a FAA representative out there that reads this,
would you please respond and let us know what is really going on.
This is suppose to be a service provided to all taxpayers
needing this service. We paid for it, so why not send our grievances
to the FAA or seek help from the all powerfull EAA on this matter.
Jim Nolan N444JN
P.S. Our local A&P is really a great guy, I just don't believe he has
the acceptance of homebuilts that we need in a DAR.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick and Barbara Osgood <randbosgood(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank rivet sealing |
Dr John Cocker wrote:
>
> Rick, I found a few leaks using soapy water during construction, and I
>
> painted the area with Proseal.
Thanks for the reply John.
Do you remember which Loctite product you purchased?? I bought and tried
the Green colored Loctite (910 I think). It was very thin and after 10
hours still did not stop the leaks. I have obtained a sample of a
marine( boats that is) product that is supposed to seal small leaks and
has good weeping characteristics. If this fails I goto go to ProSeal
painting. I hesitate to do this as I dont want to deal with the prep
work for painting over this later.
Thanks again for the input
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RST Intercom Panel |
I am considering purchasing the RST intercom panel for my RV. Does anyone
have any comments (good or bad) about this unit? How is the construction
for a novice in electronics construction?
Thanks in advance for any inputs
John Henley (grihen(at)juno.com)
about to mount the engine RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting parts |
> I agree with Randall to buy a bandsaw, but not a single speed if you want to
I've gotten most of the way through my tail and wings with a hack saw.
There have been a few times a bandsaw would have been nice (those weird
brackets on the hor. stab, for instance). But none of the jobs have been
beyond hack saw capabilities.
Are some coming up where this becomes less true? Or do y'all just not
like hack saws?
-Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | fuel tank question |
What, if anything is used as a sealant for the access cover gasket, the fuel
quantity sender/gasket, and the screws that penetrate the tank to hold these
things onto the tank? Also same question applies to tube fittings that
attach to the bulkhead feedthru's for the fuel supply and vent lines?
Presumably proseal isnt the sealer of choice if you ever want to remove any
of this stuff at a later date.
Mike Wills
RV-4(wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 Manual Elevator Trim Cable Routing |
> I am going to be routing the elevator trim cable soon. On the F-606
> bulkhead, the hole for the cable is drawn 1.5" off centerline. At this
> position, the cable would interfere with the F-629 Rib Assy.
>
> Should the cable get routed to the left or right of the F-629 Rib
> asssembly, or is there another alternative?
I did mine as shown on the plans (pg 26). Put the hole right through
the flange of the rib. Actually it was more of an arc than a
hole, as the hole intersected the edge of the flange.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randy(at)tr.reno.nv.us (Randy) |
| Subject: | locking fuel caps |
Howdy RVers,
have been trying to get info on locking caps. if anyone out there has such
info please respond off list. some time ago i saw something from Eric
Henson but i apparently did'nt write his e-mail add. correctly.
thanx in advance.
randy(at)tr.reno.nv.us
*********
Randy
*********
ds
with a bandsaw. And on the fuselage, and especially the finish kit, you
will find you have more and more custom parts you have to make, and it
really becomes worthwhile to have a tool do do this stuff quickly and
easily. Also, the hacksaw doesn't work too well when you have to make
curved cuts.
The bottom line is, it's one of those things that before you have
it you don't know what you're missing, but after you get one,
you'll wonder how you ever got along without it.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
Sorry for not checking the archives first on this, but I'm
using a connection that won't allow me to.
I'm planning to start the empennage in my basement soon. A
local builder has suggested that, to avoid priming in my house,
I could prime the entire empennage kit outside as soon as I
receive it (before doing any other work).
It sounds like a good idea to me. Has anyone done this? Can
anyone see why it would not be a good idea?
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: RST Intercom Panel |
juno.com!grihen(at)matronics.com wrote:
> I am considering purchasing the RST intercom panel for my RV. Does anyone
> have any comments (good or bad) about this unit? How is the construction
> for a novice in electronics construction?
Are you talking about the intercom or the RST-564 audio panel? If so, we
just had a thread on this recently... perhaps go search the archive for
"RST" ?
My comments on the RST-564 can be found on my Bunny's Guide page
http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv/bunnyaud.htm -- in brief, excellent kit, OK
for a novice. People have concerns about getting the calibration done
(RST can't do it right now due to lack of a tech). It's no big deal to
do it yourself... if anyone wants to send me their panel and return
freight (probably US$30 each way?) I'll do it for US$10.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting parts |
Just a lot more of the same. Question is how much is it worth to you to make
things a lot easier? If a bandsaw costs $300 and saves 100 hours of hacking
its worth the price in my book.
Mike Wills
RV-4(wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>Are some coming up where this becomes less true? Or do y'all just not
>like hack saws?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
Does anyone have a recommendation on a torque wrench (ft-lbs.) It's my
understanding that the dial/pointer type is more accurate than the "click"
type. The problem that I see with the dial/pointer type is that you would
have to stand on your head to read it in certain conditions. I'm interested
in a wrench with a thin head so it's easier to get on the top plugs without
gouging the baffling.
Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: inspection rv-4 |
Thanks, gil. I ordered some spacers for the front of the prop from
van's.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cutting parts |
A table saw will work fine with either a non-ferrous metal blade or a goo=
d carbide blade.
Brian Eckstein
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel tank question |
>What, if anything is used as a sealant for the access cover gasket, the fuel
>quantity sender/gasket, and the screws that penetrate the tank to hold these
>things onto the tank? Also same question applies to tube fittings that
>attach to the bulkhead feedthru's for the fuel supply and vent lines?
>Mike Wills
Mike,
I used "Fuel Lube" on gaskets and on the access cover screw threads. I
also used it on any pipe thread fuel fitting. You don't use this stuff on
flare fitting surfaces, by the way.
In the past, I have sent out to fellow RVers a 35 mm film canister full
of fuel lube for $4.00. This is enough fuel lube to do 5 or 6 RVs and have
some left over. A one pound can from ACS is about $16.00 and I just didn't
see any sense in RVers ordering a pound can for a small job and having so
much go to waste. I'm on my third can now, having shipped way more film
cans than I ever thought I'd ship.
Anyone interested in this offer can send their $4.00 to:
Bob Skinner, 8989 US Hwy 16 West, Buffalo, Wyoming 82834
Please allow a few weeks for delivery. As I've recently moved and haven't
un-packed, I'm not sure where my can of fuel lube is for sure. Hope I
didn't leave it back in Nebraska:(
Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JimNolan(at)mail.kconline.com |
| Subject: | fuel tank question |
Mike Wills,
I used form-a - gasket ( the hard kind) on all my screws and
gaskets to seal the cover plate and fuel sender. It hasn't leaked
while using unleaded auto fuel (approximately 300 hrs.) or avgas
( approximately 300 hrs.). I don't know if it's the best stuff to use
and no-one told me to use it. It's worked for 600 hrs. so I feel I
can recomend it for at least 600 hrs. Jim Nolan N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
Jim, if you're not sure about this now, just leave it until you decide. The
QBs come drilled and dimpled with a few clecos. If you go ahead, cut the
hinge pins if you want because they are too soft and are to be replaced by the
stainless ones supplied in the kit anyway.
Les
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Jim Sears
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 6:30 AM
Subject: RV-List: Cowl hinges
I may end up using screws for the bottom and top fuselage/cowl
mounting. Not sure, yet.
Jim Sears
RV-6A #22220 (fuselage ready to turn over, finally)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mauser(at)claris.com (Richard Chandler) |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting parts |
> I've gotten most of the way through my tail and wings with a hack saw.
Is that in the manual, or is this one of those "half of everything" divorce
deals? :-)
Personally, I'm considering selling my little Ryobi 9" bandsaw and moving up
to a full sized Delta 14" (Or maybe the Jet), since I do a lot of woodworking.
I built a nice stand for it and added a gooseneck light, and I have half a
dozen blades of various sizes. Interested locals (Portland area) can make me
an offer, off the list of course. With the extras, I'd like to get about what
I paid for it, considering it's only a year old and not heavily used.
--
Richard Chandler
RV-6: Garage bought and being finished, saving for tools and tail kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Cowling Inside Treatment |
This $315 is in addition to the basic finishing kit price or separate cowling
price. Pretty high, but I plan on getting it. BTW, this hasn't been
officially announced as available yet and won't be shipping for about a month,
according to official sources (Van's)!
Les Williams/RV-6AQ
New cowl is $315 for the type S (epoxy honeycomb).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
I have just finished looking through the poh Scott G. has made up. It
is for an rv-6, but is very well done. It is set up nicely with a bunch
of info in it. I just wish he had built an rv-4 so I wouldn't have to
edit so much of it. (You know, the airspeeds are probably 50 or 60
m.p.h. faster in a -4. ha). Thanks alot, Scott.
________________________________________________________________________________
BUY THE BANDSAW! I RECENTLY PURCHASED AN INEXPENSIVE CRAFTSMAN TABLE MODEL
AND LOVE IT! IS THERE AN ELECTRICIAN ON THE LIST THAT MIGHT SHED SOME LIGHT
ON HOW TO INSTALL AN "INLINE" RHEOSTSAT IN ORDER TO VARY THE SPEED.
GREG HUGHES/RV4AV8R2B // FUSE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lothar Klingmuller <lothark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Flight Manual or POH |
>I'm currently working on a POH for my RV-6A. It's being written in MS
>Word7.0 format and is specific to my plane
Scott:
This is the best idea I have seen on this subject!! No need to re-invet the
wheele.
Mayby the group can edit/adapt your compilation to come out with a first
class, non-wordy (KISS +Keep It Simple), and useful flight manual.
I hope your BIG flight is coming soon and good luch with the FAA!
PS LIST: What is the difference between a POH and I flight manual?
Safe and happy landings -ALWAYS!
Lothar* K.|| Denver, CO || NOW framing FLUGHAUS (=carriagehouse)
|| loocking for RV- 6 JIG || ready to jig soon ||| *(pron'd: "low-TARR")
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lothar Klingmuller <lothark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Please Read... |
... not been doing a very good job
>of 'aggressively editing quoted text' lately. Especially disturbing is
>when the 'list-trailer'
Matt:
What is a 'list-trailer'?
If it is your last 8 lines of each message, I recommend you post this only
for a limited time each month.
Thanks for beining our administrator!!
Safe and happy landings -ALWAYS!
Lothar* K.|| Denver, CO || NOW framing FLUGHAUS (=carriagehouse)
|| loocking for RV- 6 JIG || ready to jig soon ||| *(pron'd: "low-TARR")
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
Grainger has a variable speed motor controller but, frankly, it doesn't do
that much and also reduces the power. Installation is pretty simple, just put
it inline between the switch and the motor. I know because I put one on an
inexpensive (spelled cheap) Sears bandsaw myself. That's the one I gave my
friend before I spent a few extra bucks for a variable speed. Most single
speed a.c. motors are not made to run well at speeds other than as designed.
Les Williams
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of aol.com!QFA1(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 6:41 PM
Subject: RV-List: CUTTING PARTS
BUY THE BANDSAW! I RECENTLY PURCHASED AN INEXPENSIVE CRAFTSMAN TABLE MODEL
AND LOVE IT! IS THERE AN ELECTRICIAN ON THE LIST THAT MIGHT SHED SOME LIGHT
ON HOW TO INSTALL AN "INLINE" RHEOSTSAT IN ORDER TO VARY THE SPEED.
GREG HUGHES/RV4AV8R2B // FUSE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: riveting trim tab piano hinge |
>
> On the last few rivets I used a monel pop rivet that Vans sold me, they
>come in real handy where the squeeser won:t fit
>
Thanks, Mark. Why didn't I think of that?
Regards,
Tom Velvick Phoenix, AZ USA
rver(at)caljet.com
RV-6 rear spar and 3rd time trim tab
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
>Speaking of lead times, what are they? I'm holding off on buying my RV-8
>tailkit because I won't have a place to build until Oct 1. Should I order
>now? I was gonna call Vans today, but never got around to it, so I figured
>I'd just ask the list.
>
>Thanks
>Moe
Van's had plenty of empannage kits in stock when I was there a couple of
weeks ago. So figure around a couple of weeks to get it to you. So order
it now and it should be at your place by October 1. Although the box isn't
that big that you probably could find a place to store it quite easily.
Regards,
Tom Velvick
RV-6a fluting wing ribs
Phoenix, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Murphy, Jr." <murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us> |
At the risk of sounding simple, just what does the acronym "DAR" stand for?
Thanks in advance.
Ray and Nancy Murphy
murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us
RV6A empenage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
Thanks for all the replies on the best way to cut parts. There seems to be
two schools of thought. Get a bandsaw, variable speed preferred or get a
Norton cut-off tool. Since I am so far in debt already, I have decided to
get both.
Regards,
Tom Velvick Phoenix, AZ USA
rver(at)caljet.com
rv-6 rear wing spar & redoing trim tab for 3rd time
________________________________________________________________________________
Michael:
When you get done editing it let the rest of us -4 guys have it ;^)
DJ
Michael C. Lott wrote:
>
>
> I have just finished looking through the poh Scott G. has made up. It
> is for an rv-6, but is very well done. It is set up nicely with a bunch
> of info in it. I just wish he had built an rv-4 so I wouldn't have to
> edit so much of it. (You know, the airspeeds are probably 50 or 60
> m.p.h. faster in a -4. ha). Thanks alot, Scott.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: inspection rv-4washers |
See Chapter 5 AC43-13 and also ACStandard Practices Handbook. Again, one
thing that is important to understand about FAA stuff including 43-13 is not
what it says you can do but WHAT IT DOES NOT SAY YOU CAN DO> It does not say
you can put 3 or 4 or 6 washers ----but it does say slightly. I know this is
opposite of the way we normal people think but it IS the way the FAA thinks
and you MUST always read their Publications in this way. If they wrote things
in "normal think" I do not think we would have these ongoing controversies
about things like " how many washers". It would be simple ----it would say
something like " the length of a bolt may be adjusted by placing up to 3
washers under the head and or nut or both but in no case more than 3"-----but
it does not say that---it says basicly in general length should equal mat.
thickness (grip) and it does not say washers can be used for anything more
than slight adg. Jim.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
Stay away from DARS unless he is known to be homebuilt friendly. Iam an A&P
and do not cosider factory built Spam Cans to be real airplanes. FAA owes you
the inspection---make them do it---it is thier job.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | L & M Rowles <lmrowles(at)netspace.net.au> |
> Since I am so far in debt already, I have decided to
>get both.
>
>Regards,
>Tom Velvick Phoenix, AZ USA
Well done Tom,
You sound like a real RVer now. Welcome to the poor house.
Regards Les. R
Les Rowles
Po Box 1895
Traralgon
Australia 3844
lmrowles(at)netspace.net.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jbalbierer(at)nysyr.ang.af.mil |
charset=US-ASCII
I'm planning to start the empennage in my basement soon. A
local builder has suggested that, to avoid priming in my house,
I could prime the entire empennage kit outside as soon as I
receive it (before doing any other work).
It sounds like a good idea to me. Has anyone done this? Can
anyone see why it would not be a good idea?
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
Tedd,
I have done it both ways. When I started with the Emp. kit, I primed as I
needed. This was very time consuming because of mixing the paint and
waiting for it to dry, etc. I also did this on my wing kit(slow learner).
On the Fuse. kit, as I inventoried, I laid out the parts in the garage and
then primed all of them at once. This worked so much better. When parts
were cut or scratched I just touched up the area with a spray can of zinc
chromate. Hope this helps.
John Balbierer, RV-6
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
charset="iso-8859-1"
Tedd,
A lot of the pieces need to be cut, drilled, bent, sawed, edge-polished
and the like before they are riveted in place. In the end I am afraid
you will be priming a second time before final assembly.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
<....I could prime the entire empennage kit outside as soon as I
receive it (before doing any other work)...>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | fuel tank question |
charset="iso-8859-1"
Mike,
Many folks report good results from a product called "Fuel Lube" from
Wicks or other aircraft supply house.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
<<<>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CHRIS.BROWNE(at)bge.com |
What are the best places to look for engines? I'm in no hurry, but
its such an important purchase I would like to start now so that I am
not in a hurry.
Chris Browne
RV-6A Pre-View
Empennage soon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MoeJoe" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Aerobatics? |
charset="US-ASCII"
Hello all. I have all the info, and I'm just waiting for my building area to
become available Oct 1before I order the tail. Last night I did a search
through the list archives for posts on aerobatics. The info I found was a
little discouraging. I have chosen the RV-8 over a Super Decathlon because I
believed the RV was much more bang for my buck, and I've always wanted to
build my own airplane. When I did an archives search, it seems that many
don't approve of aerobatics in the RV-4. My question is, what exactly can
you do? I will most likely have my girlfriend in the back most of the time
(100lbs), and we will both be wearing parachutes. I intend to use my plane
for sport aerobatics, not a cross country machine; Am I expecting too much?
Are spins safe? What about Tailslides? Has anyone ever snap-rolled their RV?
I will put a CS prop on the thing, and I expect this to greatly reduce
acceleration on the downline. Can anyone confirm this? Does anyone have a 3
bladed prop on their kit? Sorry if I'm asking 100 stupid questions, but I
want to make sure I'm doing the right thing here. Since Vans RV-8's are the
only two flying, it's hard to get data, so I'll have to rely on RV-4
performance for now. I heard that Van improved the CG reange with the -8,
any truth to this?
Thanks
Moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Priming Again |
>were cut or scratched I just touched up the area with a spray can of zinc
>chromate. Hope this helps.
>
>John Balbierer, RV-6
ZINC CROMATE!!! As a PRIMER???? Oh My God!!!!!
Let's see what that starts.:-)
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrench |
> Does anyone have a recommendation on a torque wrench (ft-lbs.) It's my
>understanding that the dial/pointer type is more accurate than the "click"
Bob, I've tried both. I've kept my clicker. I had heard and read that both
were more accu., and problem with both is that home builders don't have them
checked at precision labs and they both go off. My clicker is now about 25
years old, and still feels about correct for a shade tree mechanic.
I've lost the agility to get in those peculiar positions so as to read the dial.
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Priming Again |
>I'm planning to start the empennage in my basement soon. A
>local builder has suggested that, to avoid priming in my house,
>I could prime the entire empennage kit outside as soon as I
>receive it (before doing any other work).
>
Why not just prime outside when you are ready to rivet the parts and not
when you receive the kit? That's what I did and it worked just fine. The
cutting, drilling and forming of the various parts will wear away at your
preprimed surface.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV (waiting for the inspection)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting parts |
>Just a lot more of the same. Question is how much is it worth to you to make
>things a lot easier? If a bandsaw costs $300 and saves 100 hours of hacking
>its worth the price in my book.
>
This is one of the tools used for an RV that actually has other uses around
the house. I never regretted the decision to buy my Delta free standing
band saw. I strongly believe that the quality of tools used for building
will show in the finished product. Use the right tool for the right job.
'Nuf said.
Scott Gesele N506RV (just waiting for the inspection)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Flight Manual or POH |
>PS LIST: What is the difference between a POH and I flight manual?
>
>
POH- Pilot's Operating Handbook
Flight Manual- Flight Manual
Difference - None
Scott Gesele (waiting for the inspection)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
> FAA owes you
>the inspection---make them do it---it is thier job.
>
>
How do you propose this. Their attitude is to Just Say NO. Sure I could
fight it, write letters, call congressman. It should only take six months
and a 609 ride to get them to cooperate. After Bob Hoover and others who
have fought the FAA, I'll just drop draws, bend over and pay the $500. It's
a heck of a lot cheaper than being viewed as a troublemaker.
On Long Island there is only one DAR. The FAA claims to be much too busy to
inspect homebuilts. Others who have applied to be a DAR have been turned
down because, according to the FAA, there aren't enough new homebuilts to
warrant another DAR for all of Long Island. Gotta love that. Government
forced monopoly and double talk. If there are so few homebuilts as to not
warrant a second DAR then how can they be too busy to perform these few
inspections?
Think I'm bitter over this, you bet I'm bitter.
Scott Gesele (the $500 inspection is this Saturday)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine purchase |
> What are the best places to look for engines? I'm in no hurry, but
> its such an important purchase I would like to start now so that I am
> not in a hurry.
>
Start by saving your pennies. The best place to look for an engine is in
Van's Accessories Catalog.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Peck <dpeck(at)ozemail.com.au> |
HELP!
When I came to dilling the hole for the trim cable I found that I could
only drill a 1/4 inch before I started to knotch into the spar cap bars. At
this point I stoped, stood back, and decided that there was no way I would
knotch the bars to fit a 1/2+ inch hole.Has any one else had this problem ?
How do you work round it ? Am I just being to conservative and should just
close my eyes, drill the hole, and wear a parachute!?!?
RV-3 Builder David Howse (c/o David Peck)
president RV builder group
Victoria/Tasmania
Australia
regards
David Peck
dpeck(at)ozemail.com.au
Perth, Western Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel tank question |
| From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
What, if anything is used as a sealant for the access cover gasket, the
fuel
quantity sender/gasket, and the screws that penetrate the tank to hold
these
things onto the tank? Also same question applies to tube fittings that
attach to the bulkhead feedthru's for the fuel supply and vent lines?
I, and many others on the list use Fuel Lube for all of the above. The
stuff works great, stays soft, and is easily disassembled. Unfortunately
it comes in a BIG can, enough for 20-30 airplanes, and thus is a little
pricey. A lot of us were graciously supplied by Bob Skinner, but if I
recall correctly, he has left his as a present for the new occupants of
his house. See if you can find a bit of it, or buy the can (about $15?)
and give some of it to your local builders group.
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <r.acker(at)thegrid.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrench |
>
> Bob, I've tried both. I've kept my clicker. I had heard and read that
both
> were more accu., and problem with both is that home builders don't have
them
> checked at precision labs and they both go off.
I agree with John, I've used both and definitely prefer the clicker type.
I had my brand new Utica calibrated by Skyranch Engineering for $25,
certification good for two years. The calibration verified that it was
spot-on out of the box .
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrench |
| From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
Does anyone have a recommendation on a torque wrench (ft-lbs.) It's my
understanding that the dial/pointer type is more accurate than the
"click"
type. The problem that I see with the dial/pointer type is that you
would
have to stand on your head to read it in certain conditions. I'm
interested
in a wrench with a thin head so it's easier to get on the top plugs
without
gouging the baffling.
Hi Bob. I don't feel that a dial indicator is any more accurate than a
"click" type as long as it's used (and calibrated) correctly. The dial
indicator can be VERY difficult to use in some instances. I have both,
and used the dial primarily for bolts that needed tightening in steps,
(for example, the prop bolts - I tightened them in a cross pattern in 3
progressively tighter stages. Kinda like the lug nuts on a car) or for
AN3 bolts with their low torque spec. It's much faster to use than
resetting the click wrench each time. For the plugs I use the "clicker",
it works great and you don't have to be a contortionist to use it on the
bottom plugs. I just use a long extension on the top plugs to clear the
baffles.
The clicker is a unit that I've had for a long time, was relatively
inexpensive at a discount tool store, and has a range of 20-200 ft/lbs.
The dial is from Sears and is calibrated from 0-600 in/lbs. It was
around $25.
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Priming Again |
| From: | lm4(at)juno.com (Larry Mac Donald) |
RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry
Snip>I'm planning to start the empennage in my basement soon. A
local builder has suggested that, to avoid priming in my house,
I couuld prime the entire empennage kit outside as soon as I
receive it (before doing any other work).
It sounds like a good idea to me. Has anyone done this? Can
anyone see why it would not be a good idea?<| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV-4 SEATS FOR SALE |
My next door neighbor has an RV-4 and is changing his seats due to an
exterior color change, and he wants me to sell these for him. These only have
approx. 100 hours on them, they are a dark green herculon type fabric with
ivory cross stitching, and matching vinyl on the bottom sides. There are five
pieces, which include two front cushions, each of different thicknesses for
adjusting to different pilot heights. These look absolutely new, with no
fading, no tears, no stains. He will sell the set for $150.00 plus $25 for
shipping them. If interested, you can either send a check in advance and save
C.O.D charges, or he will send C.O.D. First E-Mail requesting them will get
them! MAlexan533(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting parts |
I said:
> It takes perhaps 30 seconds, including clamping it in
> the vise, to cut a piece of 3/4" angle with a bandsaw, versus 3 seconds
> with a bandsaw.
OOPS -- of course that should've read "30 seconds....with a HACKSAW..."
On a related note, Les Williams said:
> Grainger has a variable speed motor controller but, frankly, it doesn't do
> that much and also reduces the power.
I was browsing through the "Tool Crib" catalog last night and happened
to come across a "Router Speed Controller". This was just a box that
plugs into the wall and the router is plugged into the box. It claimed
to have some sort of load sensing circuitry and would vary the power
based on the load. I was wondering why it wouldn't work for
bandsaws...? Anyone have any ideas about this?
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting parts |
In fairness, I probably should have mentioned when I posted this that I
already owned a bandsaw long before I started building my RV, so it was a
non decision for me. Scott makes a very good point here,and I will go it one
better. My bandsaw is the one power tool in my shop that my wife and
daughters use. Comes in very handy for all kinds of little craft projects as
well as any woodworking. Where it shines compared to the cutoff wheel on a
die grinder is when you need to cut around a curve.
If I had it to do over again, I would buy a variable speed. A friend
building a Kolb ultralight just bought a bench top variable speed for around
$200 and it works great.
Mike Wills
RV-4(wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>>Just a lot more of the same. Question is how much is it worth to you to make
>>things a lot easier? If a bandsaw costs $300 and saves 100 hours of hacking
>>its worth the price in my book.
>This is one of the tools used for an RV that actually has other uses around
>the house.
>
>Scott Gesele N506RV (just waiting for the inspection)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Hill <hilc(at)dlemail.itg.ti.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
I had the same question at Oskosh. I asked the guy who was
flying the Blue RV-8 (sorry can't remember his name), what
it can do. He said it'd be easier to say what he hasn't done.
I'm pretty sure one of the things he hadn't done was a tailslid,
he also said he hadn't done a lumchavak (how do you spell that?), not
because the plane couldn't do it, but because of the wear and tear
on the engine. He basically said it's +-6g, you can do about anything
within those limits and went on to explain some of the things he
has done (can't remember the names) which were very impressive.
I also know a guy in our local EAA chapter who has an RV-4, he
routinely does aerobatics and has over 1000 hours on it. He loves
the plane and is in the process of building an RV-8 to do aero in
also. He didn't have enough good things to say about it.
My impression is many people will say don't do aero, not because
Van's planes can't handle it, but because statistically it's not
as safe as flying straight and level. I believe the RV-8 will be
a better plane than either a Decathlon or Citabria for aero.
One last thing, the guy at Oskosh did say (at least for aero) that
the hp of the engine didn't really matter, but definitely go with
a cs prop. He's done lot's of spins, and he does snap rolls, hammerheads,
etc. I asked if the airframe would need to be "beefed" up any
and he said no- it's designed to handle aero. He's taken to both
the +6 and -6 limit.
RV-8 wannabe builder (soon I hope!)
Chris Hill
hilc(at)dlep1.itg.ti.com
Dallas, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net (Chris Brooks) |
| Subject: | Re: Antennas for RVs |
I found this on r.a.h. I thought if I forwarded it to the list we could
get Jim his 12 response.
Chris Brooks
BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
| Subject: | FW: Wanted: Flaring tool |
Hi Gang,
Anyone have a flaring tool they would like to sell to a poor orphan
stepchild? Time to flare those tank lines. Respond privately to:
Eric Henson
ehenson(at)cldwell.attmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
| Subject: | locking fuel caps |
Hi Randy,
The caps are sold through Wicks or Spruce and they are very nicely machined.
Problem is, the flange is straight, not bent like the ones Van's sells.
Because of this I basically chickened out on the whole deal. I'm just
putting in Vans. My fear is that if I bent the flange, the opening might
distort and the cap would not seal properly. At $90.00 a pop I was not ready
to start experimenting. I voiced all of this to Dave at Wicks and suggested
that he talk the manufacturer into making a cap specifically for the RV. You
might give him a call and see what's up. His # is 800-221-9425. This
probably is totally do-able, I just ran out of patience and had too much
other stuff to buy.
Hope it helps,
Eric Henson
ehenson(at)cldwell.attmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Randy Wrote<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>have been trying to get info on locking caps. if anyone out there has such
info please respond off list. some time ago i saw something from Eric
Henson but i apparently did'nt write his e-mail add. correctly.
thanx in advance.<<<<
________________________________________________________________________________
Ray Murphy, Jr. wrote:
>
>
> At the risk of sounding simple, just what does the acronym "DAR" stand for?
> Thanks in advance.
>
DAR stands for Designated Airworthiness Representative - They can sub
for the FAA on many certification issues. I worked with a number of them
in a former life at a major airline doing records inspections, AD
reviews and conformity checks when importing foreign registered aircraft
into the U.S. Many of them only work on transports and with airlines or
manufacturers and might not know (or like) light aircraft or homebuilts,
even though they legally can certifiy them.
There is also a DER which is a Designated Engineering Representative.
They function alot like a P.E. for Civil and Mechanical Engineers. Most
DERs I've encountered have been employees of airlines or manufacturers
and not independant. You would probably only use one for an STC or
major repair needing engineering review.
--
Greg Young
Citabria N90AV
RV-6 s/n 23070 skinning fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | charles(at)onramp.net (charles young) |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrench |
I have both and prefer the clicker.
----------
>
>> Does anyone have a recommendation on a torque wrench (ft-lbs.) It's my
>>understanding that the dial/pointer type is more accurate than the "click"
>
>
>Bob, I've tried both. I've kept my clicker. I had heard and read that both
>were more accu., and problem with both is that home builders don't have them
>checked at precision labs and they both go off. My clicker is now about 25
>years old, and still feels about correct for a shade tree mechanic.
>I've lost the agility to get in those peculiar positions so as to read the
>dial.
>John Darby
>Stephenville TX
>johnd@our-town.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net (Chris Brooks) |
| Subject: | Re: Antennas for RVs |
Sorry,
the message didn't forward. It was from Jim Weir of RST. He said that
if there was enough interest and he received at least 12 responses from
RV builders that he would write an article for Kitplanes magazine on
wing tip antennaes for RV aircraft. His e-mail address is:
Jim@rst-engr.com
Chris Brooks
BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
| Subject: | Operating manual and checklist available |
I've updated my resources web page with the
operating manual and checklist from John Kitz
(thanks John!) :
http://www.aftershock.org/mitch/rv.htm
Make sure you refresh/reload before following
the link to my resources page, or you'll get
the old crappy page instead of my new
spiffy page! Feel free to send me your own
versions as you finish them and I'll make them
available to others.
Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA N727MF (reserved)
RV-6AQME fitting instrument panel and rudder pedals / brakes
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Torque Wrench ... calibration |
charset="iso-8859-1"
I too prefer the clicker. I would like to get mine calibrated. Where
do you go to find someone who can do that?
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
<...I have both and prefer the clicker....>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shaun <ee(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | RV-4 Wanted. Any for sale? |
Desire an RV-4 project in late stages or flying. Quality workmanship a
must. If you know of one available please send me an email.
- Shaun
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
bellatlantic.net!moejoe(at)matronics.com wrote:
> I intend to use my plane
> for sport aerobatics, not a cross country machine; Am I expecting too much?
I'd say you'd be fine. There's a guy here in NZ flying an RV-4 who has
placed in the top 3 in the national Sportsman class aerobatics the last
two years. That may not be much of a recommendation though; IIRC, third
place this year went to a C152 Aerobat.
However, the plane isn't a Pitts. Van's tradeoff means it's a good
cross-country plane, and fairly good for aerobatics. As I understand it,
it's too slippery and aerodynamic, so it accelerates fast when going
down. (Maybe build yours with universal instead of flush rivets? Coat
the outside with sandpaper? Tow a banner during acro? :-) More
seriously, if you don't want the cross-country ability, perhaps you
should be looking for a plane that more closely fits your mission?
> Are spins safe?
Someone posted information about spinning an RV a while back; I suggest
a search of the archives. Basically, it sounded like it was safe, but
quite a wild ride.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
Jim, don't cut any hinge wires until later. Cut the two hings halfs
without the wire installed. You can then cut the wire later so it can
be properly secured somewhere and will have enough length to work with.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
Jim, one other idea about the hinge halfs and the pin. You might think
about installing the wired for the two cowl hinges through your fresh
air inlets. this would eliminate the possibility of one ever coming
loose and cutting your prop.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelli Lewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrench |
>I have both and prefer the clicker.
I have both and use both. It seems, however, that the clicker is not as
accurate in the lower torque ranges such as would be use for a AN-3 bolt
(2-3.5 ft/lb). SO...I use the clicker for the big bolts with a high torque
and the dial one for the smaller bolts. So now you STILL don't know which
one to get!!
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JimNolan(at)mail.kconline.com |
Greg Hughes,
I have a EET and have worked on CNC and industrial electronic
equipment for 20 yrs.
You wanted to know how to control the speed of your (cheap)
bandsaw with a rheostat. Well here goes.
A rheostat controls resistance thus controling voltage drop
across that resistance. The trouble is, when you lower the voltage on
an AC motor all you will do is increase current and lower torque. The
formula for Synchronous RPM is = Frequency times Voltage divided by
the number of poles in the motor. (best I can remember without
looking it up)
To lower your base speed (top speed) you have to control the
frequency. To do this, it takes an AC Motor Controller. They are
expensive, but they control speed without losing torque or increasing
current.
Why do you think our drill presses have varable speed pullys. If
they didn't we couldn't afford to buy them cheaply.
There might be something on the market that will help you, but
it won't be as simple as a rheostat. Good luck, when I go back to
work tomorrow I'll look something up and get a price on it for you.
Jim Nolan N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Torque Wrench ... calibration |
>
>I too prefer the clicker. I would like to get mine calibrated. Where
>do you go to find someone who can do that?
>
Torque wrench is one of those things you can do quite nicely for
yourself. Fabricate a horizontal shaft supported in decent
bearings (sometimes called pillow-block bearings). I've also
built a fixture using wooden "pillows" counterbored to hold
reasonably smooth but otherwise unservicable outter front
wheel bearings for a rear-wheel drive car. These can be had
new for pretty cheap.
Get some small diameter cable (aircraft control cable is fine)
and wrap it around a drum on one end of your shaft such that
you know the drum radius -AND- the magnitude of weight you're
going to hang off the drum via the cable. Milk jugs filled with
water are handy . . . about 8# each. So, with a drum radius
of say 10", each jug of water gets you 80 lb-inches of torque,
etc. You just fit the working end of the shaft with some hex
shape that you can "drive" with a matching socket on your torque
wrench. You only need to calibrate in two or three places near
the ends and middle of your range-of-interest. BTW, you don't
have to use a "drum" . . . an arm off the far end of the shaft
works good too . . . in fact, you can put holes in the arm with
variable "radii" so as to increase the range of operation for
a fixed set of weights. When using the arm method, use a bubble
level to show when the arm is exactly horizontal where the
calibration point is known. Basic basement physics.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrench |
I have two Sears click type that I am happy with. I bought them about 5
years ago. I calibrated both of them in our Metrology lab at work and they
are within 3% throughout the entire spec range. Additionally, they are
within 5% well below the rated minimums, a handy feature when I torque
those little AN3s with the larger capacity wrench. I have used the dial
type and find it very difficult to use except in idealized situations.
Dennis
----------
> From: Bob Skinner <trib.com!bskinr(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Torque Wrench
> Date: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 5:56 PM
>
>
> Does anyone have a recommendation on a torque wrench (ft-lbs.) It's my
> understanding that the dial/pointer type is more accurate than the
"click"
> type. The problem that I see with the dial/pointer type is that you
would
> have to stand on your head to read it in certain conditions. I'm
interested
> in a wrench with a thin head so it's easier to get on the top plugs
without
> gouging the baffling.
>
> Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com (Paul M Bilodeau +1 +1 732 957 6611) |
| Subject: | Re: To Bandsaw or Not To Bandsaw.... |
Lots of good reasons to have one have been mentioned.....
I looked around, asked questions of those on the net regarding the
make and model of their saws, questioned the quality/longevity of Harbor
Freight's Wood and Metal Bandsaws and Woodworker's Warehouse Imports,
etc....and even almost bought one of the Black & Decker Bench Top
Variable Speed Saws (my second choice), from a Black and Decker Outlet
Store.
I ended up buying (happily) a Delta 12" saw from Home Depot....taking
advantage of their 10% off when signing up for a credit card offer, plus
showing them a competitor's price that was $10 less then their advertised
price - which got me and additional + 10% additional discount below the
competitor's price. It was a great deal at the time.
Just lately my local Home Depot has had the saw on sale for about $40 off
their regular price....now listed at $329 I believe. If one took advantage
of Home Depot's credit card offer, this would make the saw about $300.
I wasn't sure how much I was going to use it.....but by buying a metal
cutting blade, which does just fine on aluminum, I can cut parts for the
plane and thin wood (up to 1" thick) easily. To do continuous work on
thicker wood or other than a piece here or there wood projects, I just
change back to the wood blade (takes about 5 minutes) and voila a wood
bandsaw. Made a copy of some shelves we have in the kitchen for another
wall (as well as points with my S.O.).
If you have the room, and the extra money, get a bandsaw....
Paul M. Bilodeau
pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com
732-957-6611
RV-6A Empennage
Ready to prime H.S. pieces.......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com (Paul M Bilodeau +1 +1 732 957 6611) |
CAUTION: Another thing to consider is that one should consider wearing
the same type respirator used to prime the pieces when smoothing edges
of pieces that are already primed.....
Also the dust settling out from this operation might deposit itself
around the shop after the edge preparation work was done, only to be
stirred up by other operations....ok if the cleaning lady doesn't mind
wearing a respirator when doing the dusting. 8<}
This could be avoided by doing the smoothing, etc. on primed pieces out
of doors wearing a respirator.
Paul M. Bilodeau
pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com
732-957-6611
RV-6A Empennage
Ready to Prime H.S. pieces....but vacation is getting in the way!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cutting parts |
"Router Speed Controller". This was just a box that
> plugs into the wall and the router is plugged into the box. It claimed
> to have some sort of load sensing circuitry and would vary the power
> based on the load. I was wondering why it wouldn't work for
> bandsaws...? Anyone have any ideas about this?
>
> Randall Henderson, RV-6
I use one of these with a 3 hp router to control speed. It works fine...=
.on a router. A router spins very fast compared to other tool motors. =
You'll blow it's fuse if you use it with slower larger motors. I know =
from experience.
Brian Eckstein
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel tank question |
| From: | gasobek(at)juno.com (Gary A. Sobek) |
Mike:
I use ProSeal and no gasket. I had 3 friends with RV-4's develop leaks
with gaskets. Proseal on the original closure makes for a nice leak
proof seal and does not cost anything. I recommend paying a little extra
money for "Allen head screws" instead of the phillips. Remove the
Allen's and use a putty knife to cut the proseal if it ever needs
removed. It is hard to explain but I removed both of the rear closeouts
from the back of leaking RV-4 (N144RS) fuel tanks to fix a leak that the
original builder had. I reused the same closeout when I sealed it back
up. No damage to the 0.032 thick material and I reused the original
part.
Gary A. Sobek
N157GS RV-6 20480
AeroSPACE Electrical Engineer
FAA A & P
EAA Technical Counselor
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Jackson <denny(at)transport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting parts |
mail.kconline.com!JimNolan(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
.....
> formula for Synchronous RPM is = Frequency times Voltage divided by
> the number of poles in the motor. (best I can remember without
> looking it up)
That's pretty close, Jim. Actually the formula is:
RPM = Freq(Hz) x 120/no. of poles
The voltage is irrelevant. The 120 comes from 2 x 60 seconds/minute
which is how many voltage peaks you get per minute with a sine wave.
It's just coincidental that the voltage we usually use for these small
motors is 120 volts. What you get when you start lowering the voltage
is more rotor slip which leads to lower stator impedance, more heat and
less power. The motor will run slower...until the motor windings smoke.
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
| From: | tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com (John T. Craig-Stearman) |
> I have chosen the RV-8 over a Super Decathlon because I
>believed the RV was much more bang for my buck, and I've always wanted
>to build my own airplane.
Moe,
I have flown both the Super Decathalon and the RV-4. There is simply no
comparison. The RV is vastly superior in all areas, including
aerobatics. If you have the wherewithal and the determination to build
your own airplane, do not even consider the Citabria.
>When I did an archives search, it seems that many
>don't approve of aerobatics in the RV-4.
I don't know of anyone, including the manufacturer, who disapproves of
aerobatics in any of the RVs! (Caveat: unmodified RV-3s are limited to
utility category G loads)
> I intend to use my plane for sport aerobatics, not a cross country
machine; Am I >expecting too much? Are spins safe? What about Tailslides?
Has anyone ever >snap-rolled their RV?
The RV-8 is a wonderful sport-aerobat. Like all RVs, it has light
control forces and crisp response rates. It will do beautifully any
maneuver you like, as long as you stay within +/- 6 Gs. Spins are quite
predictable, even boring. Solo in the RV-4 they recover by themselves
within one turn of releasing the controls. I have not spun an RV, but I
have this report from a fellow T-37 instructor pilot who has, like me,
spent many hours next to a hyperventilating student abusing the Tweet
through many a spin. I would not recommend the more abusive maneuvers,
e.g. lomcevaks and tail slides. They are hard on engine and airframe
alike. But for sport aerobatics and good cross-country performance, you
cannot do better for less money than any of the RVs.
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com
RV-4 wings mounted, installing systems
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James K. Hurd" <hurd(at)riolink.com> |
I plan to store my almost-completed RV6A wings in a roll-away rack with
airfoil-shaped plywood cradles. What is optimum orientation (leading
edge up or down) and height for cradles? I want wings well-supported
but relatively easy to remove.
Thanks in advance.
Jim New Mexico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Moore <bobmoore(at)wwd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
Chris Hill wrote:
> One last thing, the guy at Oskosh did say (at least for aero) that
> the hp of the engine didn't really matter, but definitely go with
> a cs prop. He's done lot's of spins, and he does snap rolls, hammerheads,
> etc. I asked if the airframe would need to be "beefed" up any
> and he said no- it's designed to handle aero. He's taken to both
> the +6 and -6 limit.
Yes, but at what weight and how many people?
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
My RV-4 is a wonderful aerobatic airplane and I do what I would call alot
of acro with it. (If you take off and land and don't go upside down, you
can't log the flight) I don't do anything heavy duty at all (no lumps, no
tailslides) . Mostly postive stuff and straight and level inverted. It
really is a blast to fly acro in it. It is remarkable easy and
comfortable. With the slightest amout of practice you can become smooth
and consistent.
Here comes the fire hose. #1. If you fall out of anything you will see
airspeeds at the redline in a heartbeat! If you don't get the power off
really quick and load it up you will be going unbelieveable fast. I would
not call it a great acro trainer.
#2 When the C.G. gets aft the pitch becomes really light. (The -8 might be
better in this regard) I had a highly experienced T-6 driver in the back
seat. He taught me most of my acro. I was rolling and looping around and
he asked to do a roll. I let him. He let the nose fall through and on the
recovery pulled over 5 G's.
As far as the acro flying, the only thing about the -4 that you might
notice is that it does not like to fly on it's side very well, but neither
does a decathalon.
I guess my short answer is "The RV-4 is a great aerobatic airplane. It is a
really good X/C airplane, It is not a great aerobatic trainer."
Tailwinds, N240 the pink panther
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | Need Advice On Wing Jacks Or Other Tire Changer Method |
I need a way to take my main wheels off my 6A, so that I can change the
tires.
If I make a tripod with a bolt to screw in the wing tie down hole, will
that take the stress of lifting one of the wings a few inches ?
Any easier ways ?
Thanks in advance for your advice.
Scott Johnson
rvgasj(at)mcs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrench |
The Sears Craftsman T. wrench #44544(25in to250in) and #44545(5ftto 80 ft)
DIGITORK is a very good wrench for 79.99 $. It has a positive setting and a
very smooth ball-bearing release. It is also very accurate +/- 3%. I had mine
calibrated and it was within the 3% over entire range.Jim.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel H. Morris III" <Morristec(at)icdc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Studs |
> from loosening as well. Any ideas/suggestions on how to keep the studs in
> tight? Stud material? Locktite?
> Thanks in advance.
> Ed Cole RV6A #24430
> emcole(at)concentric.net
Ed,
There are oversize studs available from Lycoming. Check your local shop.
They are only oversized on the end that threads into the cylinder. There
is also a minimum torque spec from Lyc for the stud screwing into the
cylinder. If the torque is lower than the spec you are supposed to go to
the oversize stud.
Dan Morris
Morristec(at)icdc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Wanted: Flaring tool |
>
>Anyone have a flaring tool they would like to sell to a poor orphan
>stepchild? Time to flare those tank lines. Respond privately to:
>
>Eric Henson
>ehenson(at)cldwell.attmail.com
Eric,
Boy, what a hearwarming message:)
If you can't locate one at a good price, I'd be happy to lend you mine. I
won't be needing it for awhile. Just pay the freight both ways and take
care of it.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel H. Morris III" <Morristec(at)icdc.com> |
>
> At the risk of sounding simple, just what does the acronym "DAR" stand
for?
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
> Ray and Nancy Murphy
> murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us
> RV6A empenage
Designated Airworthiness Inspector. There are DAR Manufacturing people,
and DAR Maintenance people with distinctly different authorities. In some
FAA regions only the Manuf. DAR can do the inspections in others the Maint.
DARs can do it also. One FAA... go figure. The Manuf DARs are appointed
by MIDO's (Manufacturing District Offices) and the Maint DARs by FSDO
(Flight Standards District Offices. By most FAA advisory material the MIDO
or a Manuf DAR is supposed to do experimental certificated for homebuilts.
Dan Morris
Morristec(at)icdc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
DAR-----Designated Airworthiness Representative (for the Administrator). Jim.
These guys are not all created equal. They usually have areas of specialty
that they are most competent in. They do not work for FAA and therefore
charge for their services. Many have engineer backgrounds . If you must use a
DAR pick carefully---talk to them and find out something about their
attitudes before commiting to one.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MoeJoe" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
charset="us-ascii"
Everyone seems to agree that the RV's pick up speed too quickly during
aerobatics, now what are some ways to increase drag on the downline? CS prop
is a given, but what about a 3 bladed prop? I heard leaving the fiberglass
tips off the wings also increases drag. Any other ideas?
Thanks for all the replies so far
Moe(I really need to get a ride in one of these things!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rscott(at)wnstar.com (Richard Scott) |
| Subject: | Re: Interior paint |
Mitch,
I am aware of 2 options:
1. First pick out a color & type of paint you can already get in a can and
have the same color mixed by your paint supplier. I used a Rustoleum
paint, sprayed a sample on a piece of aluminum & Stits matched the color
for me.
2. Some industrial paint suppliers will supply paint for conventional
spraying and put some of it also in cans. A local window manufacturer get
his frame paint this way & told me about it.
Dick Scott
>
>What recommendations can anybody give for interior paint?
>
>I'd like something I can get in a can as well as by the quart
>if there is such a thing.
>
>Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA N727MF (reserved)
>RV-6AQME starting canopy work
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George McNutt <GMcNutt(at)compuserve.com> |
"We are having a problem with exhaust studs backing out on a Lycoming =
IO-360 200HP. The exhaust pipe is double nutted to prevent those nuts =
from loosening as well. Any ideas/suggestions on how to keep the studs in=
=
tight? Stud material? Locktite?"
Hi Ed =
I am not a A&P but I believe that whenever a exhaust stud comes out it
should be replaced with the next oversize stud.
If I remember rightly, oversizes are available for my Continental 0-470 i=
n
three, seven and twelve thousands oversize. Lycoming should be similiar.
Oversize exhaust studs are color coded. =
Some shops will Locktite the oversize stud in place which will solve the
immediate problem but make future maintenance very difficult if threads f=
or
the nut are later burned away by a leaking exhaust pipe gasket and the st=
ud
needs replacement. =
Be careful about anti-sieze compounds placed on the stud to keep the nuts=
from freezing up. I used a spray on automotive anti-sieze which caused th=
e
brass nuts to become almost welded to the exhaust studs. The next time I
removed the exhaust pipes half my exhaust studs backed out and some broke=
off, which required drilling out the stud and installing helicoil inserts=
=2E
I am not telling you this to garner sympathy, just to let everyone on the=
list know that this is one area where you should get some expert advice a=
nd
do it the right way the first time around and prevent major headaches
during future maintenance.
George McNutt
Langley B.C.
6A - Elevators.
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
Hi James,
I believe it is better to store or transport the wings with the leading
edge carrying most of the weight, as there is much more surface area to
spread the weight over. Also, the trailing edges are much more easily
damaged as they are of thinner metal and more prone to being bent when
bumped into. The first time I moved my wings I fabricated some cradles
much like the patterns you cut out of the shipping box to slide over the
wing when you are lining things up. When I was ready to move to the
airport with it no one was around to help so I used the same cradle
frames. This time I installed them on the wings and built frames around
them that were slightly off the floor. Then I let just enough air out
of the tires to where the frames were supporting the wings and unbolted
and slid them out by myself. It was very easy to do. Luckily someone
came around to help me load them on the trailer and take it all to the
airport, where I reversed the procedure (with some help, this time) and
slid them back into place and bolted them on. I put all the large
center bolts in first, then took away the framework. I was surprised
that I had to have someone flex the wing a little to get the smaller,
outer bolts in place. I didn't think it would flex like that with no
weight on it. Of course it wasn't much. Oops, I went too far again.
See ya.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
>I plan to store my almost-completed RV6A wings in a roll-away rack with
>airfoil-shaped plywood cradles. What is optimum orientation (leading
>edge up or down) and height for cradles? I want wings well-supported
>but relatively easy to remove.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Jim New Mexico
Jim,
I used a very similar arrangement to what you are hinting at. I stored my
wings on a rolling cradle, leading edge down, wing top surfaces facing each
other. I kept the height low, the LE was about 6" off the ground.
X/-\X
X/ \X
X/ \X
X/ \X
| X/ \X |
|X/ \X|
-----------------
W W
Very crude ASCII dwg. The X's are the wings, W are wheels and lines are
structures. The actual jig doesn't "slant" as much. Hey, there's
limitations to ASCII dwg's. There are 2X4's running spanwise and a plywood
cut out at the tip and root in the shape of a "double airfoil" to hold the
wings.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV (inspection this weekend)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice On Wing Jacks Or Other Tire Changer |
Method
> I need a way to take my main wheels off my 6A, so that I can change the
>tires.
> If I make a tripod with a bolt to screw in the wing tie down hole, will
>that take the stress of lifting one of the wings a few inches ?
>Any easier ways ?
>Scott Johnson
Scott,
It makes me weak in the knees even thinking about using the tie down
fixture. (Of course, seeing what a couple of kids employed at my old
airport did with a jack to the wing of a Bonanza might have something to do
with my feelings)
I used the jacking device that Larry Vetterman makes (and I think Van's
sells in the catalog) and it works very well. You have to modify the axle
nuts but it's no big deal and the set up works very well.
Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: Wanted: Flaring tool |
Eric
If you know anyone who has a lathe you can buy a cheap 45 degree flaring tool
and turn it to a 371/2 degree face. Works fine and way cheaper.
Russ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
| Subject: | Mixture Control Cable |
How to hook up?
I am not fond of the B-nut system which, as I understand it, is held on to
the control wire with a lonely allen screw. The thickness of the mixture
lever, and diameter (1/4") of the hole in the lever, does not lend itself
to the 10-32 ended control cable end with clevis or rod end bearing or
anything else easily adaptable.
Any suggestions out there as to how to make a good safe hookup on the
mixture lever.
Thank You...! Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q, hooking up engine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wes Hays <whays(at)tenet.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel tank question |
> What, if anything is used as a sealant for the access cover gasket, the
> fuel
> quantity sender/gasket, and the screws that penetrate the tank to hold
> these
> things onto the tank?
If you can't get some from Bob Skinner, please let me know. I have a full
can and will be glad to sell you some. I think Bob got $4.00 per film
canister roll.
Please e-mail address direct
(Bob, I'm not trying to *horn in*, but will be glad to
furnish some if you can't find yours. I thought I read where you were in
the process of moving.)
Wes Hays
whays(at)tenet.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Hintenlang <dhinten(at)nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics |
MoeJoe wrote:
>
> Everyone seems to agree that the RV's pick up speed too quickly during
> aerobatics, now what are some ways to increase drag on the downline?
How about adding another wing, some struts, flying wires......
:)
Dave Hintenlang
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Lempicke <tlempicke(at)InfoAve.Net> |
| Subject: | Re: Please Read... |
Matt Dralle 510-606-1001 wrote:
> 510-606-1001)
>
> Hello RVrs,
>
> I have been noticing that many people have not been doing a very good
> job
> of 'aggressively editing quoted text' lately. Especially disturbing
> is
> when the 'list-trailer' is requoted one or more times in a reply...
Another thing that could be done is to edit the advertising for
Matronics somewhat. It could accomplish it's goal with about 1/5 of the
space. No one on this list is going to read that message thirty times a
day!
Tom Lempicke
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Lempicke <tlempicke(at)InfoAve.Net> |
| Subject: | Cylinders for Sale |
I have a set of four O-320 (160 HP) Wide Deck cylinders for sale. They
are chrome and were removed from an engine I am overhauling. The appear
to have less than 500 hours on them, but I did not get a log book with
the engine so I have no way of being sure. They appear to be very good
condition and serviceable.
Cylinders with pistons cleaned and packed for shipment - $1,600. Single
cylinder (although I would rather not break up the set) $450.
Please contact me off list at Tlempicke(at)infoave.net and we will arrange
a telephone call.
--
Tom Lempicke
Country Squire Airport
Squire Road and Falls Road
Rock Hill, S. C. 29730
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Lempicke <tlempicke(at)InfoAve.Net> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Studs |
Edward Cole wrote:
>
> We are having a problem with exhaust studs backing out on a Lycoming
> IO-360 200HP. The exhaust pipe is double nutted to prevent those nuts
> from loosening as well. Any ideas/suggestions on how to keep the studs
> in
> tight? Stud material? Locktite?
> Thanks in advance.
> Ed Cole RV6A #24430
> emcole(at)concentric.net
Lycoming makes an oversize stud to solve this problem. It is oversize
on the end that goes into the cylinder and normal on the end that the
nut goes on. They have at least two (maybe three) oversizes, P.003 and
P.006. When you replace the studs don't forget to inspect the exhaust
port itself. Frequently what happens is that the gasket has blown and
the aluminum around the facing area has eroded. About the only fix is
to re-face the exhaust port. On rare (very rare) occasions you can
solve the problem by using a spiral wound "Blo Proof" gasket. Also look
at the flange on your exhaust manifold. If someone has cranked down the
nuts and crushed the gasket it will be saddle shaped, and until you fix
it no amount of other loving care it going to fix it.
>
>
>
Tom Lempicke
Country Squire Airport
Squire Road and Falls Road
Rock Hill, S. C. 29730
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bstobbe(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting parts |
mail.kconline.com!JimNolan(at)matronics.com writes:
> To lower your base speed (top speed) you have to control the
>frequency. To do this, it takes an AC Motor Controller. They are
>expensive, but they control speed without losing torque or increasing
>current.
True, unless the motor is what is called "universally wound" (and these
babies are used quite often in tools like hand drills, etc). You can
tell if the motor in question is universally wound by checking to see of
it has brushes and runs on AC power (like your hand drill and shop vac).
If so, then it's speed is very sensitive to applied voltage and can be
controlled by a simple SCR phase control circuit (like a lamp dimmer with
more current capability). My 10" Harbor Freight bandsaw came with just
such a controller mounted right on it, and it has infinitely variable
speed control - I believe it was priced in the neighborhood of $80.00
(the whole bandsaw, not just the speed control).
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6; N508RV res
fuselage in waiting (for me)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice On Wing Jacks Or Other Tire Changer |
Method
>If I make a tripod with a bolt to screw in the wing tie down hole, will
>that take the stress of lifting one of the wings a few inches ?
>
>Any easier ways ?
Scott;
I used the tri pod wing jack that the local FBO has. Got a hardware store
bolt for the tie down receptacle, and had at it. The jack pad had a deep
depression in the top to accept the bolt head. I too had concern from what
I had heard about it, but after having done so, it was still very stable up
on the jacks. I wont say it was fool proof, cause some can screw up an
anvil, but I sure would not hesitate to do it again.
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MoeJoe" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
charset="us-ascii"
When they determine airframe limitations, isn't it at gross weight?
Moe
>
>Chris Hill wrote:
>
>> One last thing, the guy at Oskosh did say (at least for aero) that
>> the hp of the engine didn't really matter, but definitely go with
>> a cs prop. He's done lot's of spins, and he does snap rolls, hammerheads,
>> etc. I asked if the airframe would need to be "beefed" up any
>> and he said no- it's designed to handle aero. He's taken to both
>> the +6 and -6 limit.
>
>Yes, but at what weight and how many people?
>
>Bob Moore
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics |
> Everyone seems to agree that the RV's pick up speed too quickly during
>aerobatics, now what are some ways to increase drag on the downline? CS prop
>is a given, but what about a 3 bladed prop? I heard leaving the fiberglass
>tips off the wings also increases drag. Any other ideas?
To All;
I would like to make a comment about acro. in the RV. I'm not trying to be
a sage old airman on this, but when you do acro up to design limits, you
should really know those limits and learn how the a/c reacts at the limits.
In the 6, there is a max wt for acro. I figured it up one time and with two
people in it, the amount of fuel on board could be only about zero gals or
so. I took this to be the max. for the max g loading. I 'assumed' that
less g loading, you could have more fuel. So I did my acro and held the g
down. I like a lot of fuel on board!
I would recommend that one should be very proficient at slow flight and
accelerated stall recognition, right up to the feather edge between flying
and falling before doing acro. When the a/c becomes a rock, you need to
know how to get it back to being an a/c.
I was lucky, I was taught this in the AF in basic, advanced, learning
ACM/ACT and in many hours of practice. It saved my butt at least three
times. Twice in training and once in combat.
Til this day, on the first flight in an a/c, I do a stall series at alt.
before going in to land. I highly recommend it. As you know, some a/c tell
you loud and clear, others say nothing, before going from flying to becoming
a rock.
Hell, you guys know this, I'm probably preaching to the choir.
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)OSA.STATE.SC.US> |
charset="iso-8859-1"
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Skinner [SMTP:trib.com!bskinr(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 7:56 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Torque Wrench
Does anyone have a recommendation on a torque wrench
Bob,
While in the fly market at OshKosh, I happened upon a guy
selling dial type torque wrenches with a light that comes on when you
reach the desired torque. It is identical in construction to a dial
type that I bought locally (MAC Tools) except for the light. It works
great. He claimed that the wrenches were government surplus. I bought
one of course. Using it is just as easy as a click type and supposedly
more accurate. I will look to see if it has a brand name, but I don't
recall seeing one.
Ken Harrill
RV - 6, waiting on fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interior paint |
>>What recommendations can anybody give for interior paint?
>>
>>I'd like something I can get in a can as well as by the quart
>>if there is such a thing.
>>
>>Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA N727MF (reserved)
>>RV-6AQME starting canopy work
>>
>
>
Mitch,
I used Imron on my interior. By using a paint with similar characteristics
as to what you might spray on the outside, you will get some good experience
with your gun. This way the mistakes can be made inside, where they are
less likely to be seen. This is only applicable if you are planning on
painting your exterior.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV (Inspection on Saturday)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick_Smith(at)brahms2.tivoli.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting parts |
Suggestions on buying and controlling the speed of a bandsaw.
For what its worth, buy the best single speed bandsaw you can afford, I was
cheap then so I bought a Sears, Put that shiny new motor on your old drill
press, table saw, etc. Then scrounge up a two-speed motor from washer
machine with the biggest and smallest pulleys you can fit on the bandsaw
and motor, and use a three position switch. The fast speed handles wood
and everything else and the slow speed is great for aluminum but steel can
still fry the blade if you force it.
-6 Rick
mail.kconline.com!JimNolan(at)matronics.com on 09/18/97 10:58:45 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Cutting parts
Greg Hughes,
I have a EET and have worked on CNC and industrial electronic
equipment for 20 yrs.
You wanted to know how to control the speed of your (cheap)
bandsaw with a rheostat. Well here goes.
A rheostat controls resistance thus controling voltage drop
across that resistance. The trouble is, when you lower the voltage on
an AC motor all you will do is increase current and lower torque. The
formula for Synchronous RPM is = Frequency times Voltage divided by
the number of poles in the motor. (best I can remember without
looking it up)
To lower your base speed (top speed) you have to control the
frequency. To do this, it takes an AC Motor Controller. They are
expensive, but they control speed without losing torque or increasing
current.
Why do you think our drill presses have varable speed pullys. If
they didn't we couldn't afford to buy them cheaply.
There might be something on the market that will help you, but
it won't be as simple as a rheostat. Good luck, when I go back to
work tomorrow I'll look something up and get a price on it for you.
Jim Nolan N444JN
|
|
"rv-list-request(at)matronics.com" | | & put the word "[un]subscribe" in the
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics |
While on the subject of aerobatics in a tandem plane, has anybody considered
setting up and RV-8 or -4 to fly solo from the rear seat? This would
eliminate the CG shift problem when flying with two people.
Bruce Green
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 3rd Annual Northeast RV Builders Forum, EAA Chapter 486 |
| From: | dmbuller(at)juno.com (Marcia S Buller) |
In case there are people on this list who did not receive a flyer in the
mail:
EAA Chapter 486 is sponsoring the 3rd Annual Northeast RV Builders Forum,
to be held at Oswego County Airport, Fulton, NY (FZY, formerly N00) on
Sat., Sept. 27, 1997.
Forums to include (subject to change): Riveting & Air Tools (Tom Nolan),
Drag Reduction (Thomas Whelan), Chevy Conversion (Jerre Mann), Wiring -
Basic & Advanced (Fred Stucklen), Sensenich Props (Ken DeGraff), Fuselage
(Alan McKeen), Canopy Fitting (Dave McManmon).
Factory representative will be in attendance with the RV-8.
Rides will be available, weather and aircraft permitting - 17 RV
aircraft are expected.
Free camping for tents, trailers and motor homes (no hookups). Shower and
bathrooms, shuttle to local motels.
Registration fee $35.00 if received by Sept. 25, $40.00 at door - ($1.00
for RV pilots who bring their RV!) - includes Saturday forums, Breakfast,
Lunch and Dinner. (Informal cookout on Friday evening, not included in
reg. fee.)
For more information, contact Bill Hodge, 315-469-3763.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrench |
While on the subject of torque, I recently looked at my chart to find the
proper torque for a 3/8-24 AN bolt and it listed it as 160-190 in-lbs.
However, there was another column labled "90,000 psi in bolt" and the number
in that column was 390 in-lbs. Does anyone know what this other column is
for?
Bruce Green
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
>
>When they determine airframe limitations, isn't it at gross weight?
>
>Moe
>
On the RV-4 there is a gross weight limitations (recommendation?) of 1,500
lbs. and an "aerobatic" gross weight limitation of (from memory) 1,275 lbs.
The -8 may have similar limits. Also, I believe the "G" limits are +6, -3 G
not +/- 6 as someone mentioned.
In any event, I have found the -4 a great, fun, aerobatic plane. I'm a
novice at acro and am learning rolls and loops, etc. in my -4. Other than
being real careful to get off the power when the nose drops I haven't had
any problems. I did spin it 1 turn right and left and need to build a
little more confidence before I add more turns. Recovery was a breeze but
it does rotate a lot faster than the Champ I learned spins in!
I would not suggest trying any of this unless you have some experience in a
more tame mount but I am a mere novice and judge my progress as good.
It is a blast to roll and you only pull 2 Gs if you nail one - a 60 degree
banks worth. Just watch the nose dropping!
Richard E. Bibb
RV-4 N144KT
Oak Hill, VA
rbibb(at)fore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice On Wing Jacks Or Other Tire Changer Method |
Scott;
Why not keep it simple and use a small stainless hose clamp put around the
lowest part of the gear and then put a small jack under and lift it just
enough to get the tire off. This has always worked great for me on my RV-4, I
would assume it would work on the sixes also. I believe I got this out of an
older issue of the RVator.
Von Alexander
N107RV RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
| From: | lm4(at)juno.com (Larry Mac Donald) |
REPLY
bellatlantic.net!moejoe(at)matronics.com> writes:
Hello all. I have all the info, and I'm just waiting for my building
area to. I have chosen the RV-8 over a Super Decathlon
because I don't approve of aerobatics in the RV-4.??????????????????
My question is, what exactly can
you do? likely have my girlfriend in the back (100lbs), and we will both
be Am I expecting too much? I want to make sure I'm doing the right
thing here. I heard that Van improved the CG range with the -8,any truth
to this?
Thanks Moe
Moe,
I don't know why you don't approve of aerobatics in a 4 but I was
given a ride in one at Frederick a few months ago and it seemed like a
very well behaved tornado. You are asking about the right choice and I
haven't been inside a super decath and I don't know the first thing about
doing aerobatics with airplanes so you have to take this info as such.
The other night Bill Benedict took me for a ride in the yellow 8.
We were out for between 20 minutes and a life time. The plane has a trim
tab, set for cruse, on the rudder and also has a constant speed prop.
This enabled Bill to set the throttle to cruise and forget it, and also
put his feet flat on the floor and forget the rudder pedals. Due to Vans
differential aileron control the plane would make coordinated turns in
all attitudes. I know this for a fact because he and I flew the plane in
ALL attitudes. The loops,
a-rolls b-rolls and something Bill called some kind of wing-over,
actually, it reminded me of what a lumchevfok might be like, were all
done without rudder ( to the best of my knowledge). G forces were in the
neighborhood of 1.5--3.0 which was just enough for an old f like me. thru
all of the twists and turns, dives and climbs I got the strong perception
that I was the one getting beat-up and that the plane wasn't working hard
at all. Of course you've probably heard that you don't need much stick
pressure to make this bird do anything you want it to do. Well, you
don't.
So in conclusion I would suggest that if you want only aerobatics
that you do further research on the 4.
If, however, you want 1. Aerobatics
2. X-country capability at the same
cost as the 4
3. Plenty of baggage space, so you
can go to other places to show off
your bird.
4. A plane who's sales are going
thru the roof and whose grace and
style is breaking the hearts of
pilots everywhere.
Buy a RV-8
Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com
P.S. Van did make a change from the blue 8 to the yellow 8
but you'll have to ask him what that was.Try Bill Benedict at
>>>auto-bill(at)vansaircraft.com<<< And I am a little cramped in the back
seat of the 4 but quite comfortable in the back seat of the 8. My bubba
factor is 6.0X210 so i'm sure your sweetheart would be comfortable in
either.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Please Read... |
Tom Lempicke wrote:
>
>
> Matt Dralle 510-606-1001 wrote:
>
> > 510-606-1001)
> >
> > Hello RVrs,
> >
> > I have been noticing that many people have not been doing a very good
> > job
> > of 'aggressively editing quoted text' lately. Especially disturbing
> > is
> > when the 'list-trailer' is requoted one or more times in a reply...
>
> Another thing that could be done is to edit the advertising for
> Matronics somewhat. It could accomplish it's goal with about 1/5 of the
> space. No one on this list is going to read that message thirty times a
> day!
>
> Tom Lempicke
>
> >
> >
>
Tom
What advertising are you talking about???? I don't see any for
Matronics at all BUT even if there was it would be fine with me
because it is Matts list and his time and effort that goes into
making it available to all of us for free......or a donation
if you wish.
Speaking of people not reading the trailer thirty times a day it
is obvious some people don't read it at all because I still see
people trying to unsubscribe using the wrong address.
ADVERTISE AWAY MATT:)
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
>
>
> I plan to store my almost-completed RV6A wings in a roll-away rack with
> airfoil-shaped plywood cradles. What is optimum orientation (leading
> edge up or down) and height for cradles? I want wings well-supported
> but relatively easy to remove.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Jim New Mexico
I constructed a rack like this;
-
|
| <---- 2X4 Frame to support trailing edge
|
|
|
|____|____| <---3/4" Plywood w/2X4 Sides
0 0 <---Casters
I used medium density packing-foam blocks to fill the trough at
the bottom. This serves to cushin the leading edge of the wing.
Bungee cords hold the trailing edge to the frame. The center
frame is 36" high. The rack is 72" long. It took about an hour
and a half to build and cost about $30. Works great.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cheryl Sanchez <csanchez(at)mailhost.avici.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mixture Control Cable |
b.wa.us>
>
>I am not fond of the B-nut system which, as I understand it, is held on to
>the control wire with a lonely allen screw. The thickness of the mixture
>lever, and diameter (1/4") of the hole in the lever, does not lend itself
>to the 10-32 ended control cable end with clevis or rod end bearing or
>anything else easily adaptable.
>
>Any suggestions out there as to how to make a good safe hookup on the
>mixture lever.
>
I recently dealt with this. I used a B nut for my mixture as
follows: 1) I put a drop of Locktite on the threads of the allen screw,
2) I wrapped the solid part of the cable around the B nut one turn.
Since the solid wire part of the cable is quite thick this makes it
very strong.
Cheryl Sanchez
csanchez(at)world.std.com
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Moore <bobmoore(at)wwd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
MoeJoe wrote:
>
>
> When they determine airframe limitations, isn't it at gross weight?
Not necessarily, for example:
A C-172 is normal category (3.8g) at max gross weight
and is in the utility category (4.4g) at a lower weight.
My RV-4 preview plans list the Maximum Gross Weight as
1600# and the Aerobatic Gross Weight as 1375#. In addition,
it would appear that certain two person loadings with
less than full fuel would might result in a cg aft of
the aerobatic cg recommended by Van's.
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mixture Control Cable |
<< Any suggestions out there as to how to make a good safe hookup on the
mixture lever with a 10-32 threaded end cable. >>
Try the quick disconnect ball joint assembly from ACS, P/N 05-07400. It
accepts a 10-32 cable end and has a 1/4-28 post for the mixture lever.
I didn't like the possibility of the spring breaking on the ball joint assy,
so I ended up using a normal 10-32 rod end bearing from Van's with an AN3
bolt, capture washers, a spacer and an adapter made from brass tubing
converting the 1/4 hole to accept the 3/16 bolt.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Moen <Moen(at)mail.dec.com> |
Ever noticed how many DAR's are retired FAA guys. It's part of their retirement
suppliment program. Keep the supply low and fees high...
. Others who have applied to be a DAR have been turned
down because, according to the FAA, there aren't enough new homebuilts to
warrant another DAR for all of Long Island. Gotta love that. Government
forced monopoly and double talk. If there are so few homebuilts as to not
warrant a second DAR then how can they be too busy to perform these few
inspections?
Think I'm bitter over this, you bet I'm bitter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re:Fuel tank test w/ balloons |
For those of you who are going to use balloons to test your fuel tanks.
As you know, most of the balloons have a slow leak and you don't know if it
is the tank or the balloon.
Yesterday I was at a car dealership, two people were blowing up balloons for
the grand showing of the new cars. In conversation with them, I asked how
they got them to stay up so long. They showed me a bottle labeled
"Stay-up". Said a little of this in a balloon and it will stay up for weeks.
With a name like that, I immediately thought of another use, but they saw
the question coming and told me no, it wouldn't work for other things.
So, when you get ready to test, maybe a visit to those who do party
decorations and a little of 'Stay-up' will solve the problem of the slow
leak in the balloon.
Sorry about the other. The quest goes on.
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Brown <kbrown(at)stellcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interior paint |
>
>Mitch,
>
>I am aware of 2 options:
>1. [SNIP]
>2. Some industrial paint suppliers will supply paint for conventional
>spraying and put some of it also in cans. A local window manufacturer get
>his frame paint this way & told me about it.
There is also sub-option 2A:
While walking around my local Harbor Freight store a couple of weeks ago, I
saw some refillable aerosol cans for sale. You just put your paint, primer
or whatever in the can and then pressurize it with compressed air.
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ShelbyRV6A(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fly-In - Fall Classic TN / Lebanon |
This is another note concerning this event. Chapter 863 in Lebanon TN(M54),
just east of Nashville, TN, will be hosting a two day fly-in. Last year 37
RVs attended. Lebanon is a hub for all types of sport aviation type activity.
Warbirds, Aerobatic, and homebuilts.
October 4th and 5th
They promise
Food
Forums
RV Showcase - Mike Seager from Van's in attendence
Aircraft Judgine and Awards
Fuel Discounts
Timed Rally
Aerrial Photography
Worlds Greatest Door Prizes
This was a fun event last year and promises more activity this year so make
your plans.
Accomodations - Shoney's Inn 800-222-2222
Holiday Inn Express - 615-444-7020
Executive Inn 615-444-0505
Must bring Tie downs.
For more information - Sonny Belew 615-449-9025 day / 615-449-9710 Eve /
Email - sbelew(at)softeknet.net
Shelby in Nashville.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Barnard <Steve(at)barnardaircraft.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice On Wing Jacks Or Other Tire Changer |
Method
I need a way to take my main wheels off my 6A, so that I can change the
tires.
If I make a tripod with a bolt to screw in the wing tie down hole, will
that take the stress of lifting one of the wings a few inches ?
Any easier ways ?
Scott Johnson
Scott,
My engineering analysis of the wing tie down bracket is as follows:
There are 3 3/16" bolts that hold the W-422 tie down bracket to the main
spar at Sta. 79 on the RV-6. The top bolt will withstand 2126 lbs. before
shearing. The next bolt down that goes thru the .063" angle will shear out
at 955 lbs. The bolt that goes thru the spar web will take 832 lbs. The
threads in the tiedown just using 1 thread will take about 600 lbs. Of
course we would all engage as many threads as possible.
The total weight on this area when jacking is in the neighborhood of 200
lbs. total load depending on how much fuel is in the airplane.
I use a 3/8" threaded rod to screw into the tiedown and then install a
nut
and washer further down with some thread sticking out below the nut so this
can be installed in a regular aircraft tripod jack. Most jacks have a
center hole in them and this is where the protruding rod goes. This way
there is no way for the airplane to come off the jack and it is entirely
safe to use for all jacking purposes. There is nothing in your way for
removing wheels and tires and nothing to modify.
You will get a slight movement of the tiedown from inboard to outboard
when jacking depending on how aligned your jack is with the wing.
This is a very safe and comforting way to jack up your airplane.
Respectfully,
Steve Barnard
Barnard Aircraft Components
RV-6A N157ST 1000 hrs flying
steve(at)barnardaircraft.com
http://www.barnardaircraft.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAllen6526(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Interior paint |
For my interior I used spray enamel in a can from Home Depot. It patches
easily, is cheap, and easy to apply.
This advice came from a local builder who has built several RV's. He said
that no matter what I used it was going to get dinged up a little from use.
Therefore why not use someting that's easy to repair.
In some areas I ended up sanding the first coat with a little 600 grit and
applying a second. I was surprised how good it turned out. Incidentally,
every surface I painted had been primed with Veriprime.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Hill <hilc(at)dlemail.itg.ti.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
>
>When they determine airframe limitations, isn't it at gross weight?
>
>Moe
>
>
I believe it is. I know the couple people I've talked to do aero with
Two, not sure if they carry less fuel though.
Another thing I asked the guy at Van's was if he limited himself to +-4g
or something lower than the total six. He basically said no way... he
pulls 6g's quit often. Ultimate failure is at +-9g following the FAA's 150%
safety margin.
I remember reading an article on someone who had installed a speed
brake on a 4 on the belly just in case he fell out of a maneuver and
started accelerating down. I wonder if the extra weight and complexity
would be worth it? Would it be useful? The article said he used
it on landing also. Can't remember where I read it.
As another note: everyone is saying they wouldn't recommend doing
maneuvers such as lomcevaks. I assume that means if your willing to
spend the money on wear and tear there wouldn't be a problem. The
Vans guy at Oskosh said he was positive it could do it, but hadn't
because of the extra wear; personally I just want to stick with
nice and easy so it isn't a factor for me, but it was reassuring
hearing the confidence he had in the planes aerobatics ability.
RV-8 wanna be builder
Chris Hill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan Carroll <carroll(at)geology.wisc.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
>On the RV-4 there is a gross weight limitations (recommendation?) of 1,500
>lbs. and an "aerobatic" gross weight limitation of (from memory) 1,275 lbs.
>The -8 may have similar limits.
I asked Van about this last year at Oshkosh and I think he said something
like 1500# as the max aerobatic wt. for the RV-8 (compared to 1800 max
gross). It seems to me that if you build really light and don't fill the
tanks you should be able to comfortably take 2 people for aerobatics.
If you do the math it works out that the RV-8 is really a +5G airplane at
maximum gross weight. A 6G load at 1500# is equivalent to 5 G's at 1800#
(6x1500=5x1800). The RV-4 and RV-6 numbers work out about the same.
Alan Carroll
RV-8 #80177 (Wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Jackson <denny(at)transport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics |
John Darby wrote:
...........
> I would like to make a comment about acro. in the RV. I'm not trying to be
> a sage old airman on this, but when you do acro up to design limits, you
> should really know those limits and learn how the a/c reacts at the limits.
..........>
> Hell, you guys know this, I'm probably preaching to the choir.
I guess I can afford 2 cents so here's mine: Aerobatics with a
passenger on board should ALWAYS be a demonstration of maneuvers that
you are very familiar with and can perform flawlessy. PRACTICING
aerobatics should ALWAYS be done solo. All maneuvers that are safe to
perform with a passenger IMHO can and should be done in an RV at 3 g's
or less. I suppose there are adrenalin junkies out there who will laugh
at my timidity, but the joke about old, bold pilots isn't really all
that funny.
DJ, RV-4 (rolls, loops, Immelmans, hammerheads, etc)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dougm(at)mailhost.physio-control.com (Doug Medema) |
| Subject: | Template for -6A gear leg hole |
Hi all,
I'm at the point of making the holes in the front bottom skin
that allow the gear mounts to stick out the bottom. The
hole needs to be an ellipse (the projection of a cylinder
on a plane intersecting the cylinder at about 45 degrees.)
I made a quick measurement of the diameter last night and
hacked this very crude postscript program to generate the
ellipse (actually, just a half of an ellipse).
The idea is to print the file to a postscript printer, fold
it in half along the straight line, cut out the ellipse, and
then trace the complete ellipse on cardboard to make the
template. The cardboard could then be placed on the plane and
rotated for best fit. Then mark some rivet holes or other
convenient landmarks and transfer the template to the bottom
skin for marking the real thing.
CAVEAT EMPTOR! I haven't actually tried this on my plane
yet. The size should be close. You can adjust the scale
factors in both x and y by adjusting the 1.000 values to
something else in the
1.000 1.000 scale
line. I printed it out on three different postscript printers
and got the same size everytime so hopefully it will print the
correct scale on yours. The dimensions should be about 1-5/8 x
2-1/4 inches on the axis.
Doug Medema
RV-6A drilled gear mounts last night! It's pretty cool to see
the fuselage mated to the wings, even if it is upside down!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank rivet sealing |
Rick, sorry I don't have it any more, but it was not thin, it was two small
bars about 1" x 1/2", and they had to be kneaded together until the color
was uniform. At this stage it was the consistance of putty. I cleaned off
the area with acetone and just stuck a small peice over the leaking rivet.
The bit I had left over I stuck on the side of my toolbox. After it cures,
about 4 hours, I tested the piece on the tool box, and I had to knock it off
with a hammer.
Next time I am in the store, I will find the number of the Loctite.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrench |
While we are on the subject of torque wrenches, as the oil filter is
recessed into the firewall on the RV 6, how do you measure the torgue when
tightening the new filter,, when the wrench won't fit into the recess ?
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RST Intercom Panel |
I don't know the RST, but I used the very small Flightcom, and when I had
problems, which were my fault, they replaced the unit, by return, overnight
UPS at no charge. It is now working fine.
John
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice On Wing Jacks Or Other Tire Changer Method |
I made a jack by using a long ram jack mounted to a wide base for stability.
I made a wing jack point support by taking a pipe end cap and soldering a
bolt into a hole in the center of the cap that I had filed flat. I then put
a piece of padding on the end of the cap around the bolt that sticks through.
I screw this cap into the wing tie down until it is flush against the wing
skin. Then the jack point holds the jack ram in place and cannot slip off.
This works good for me.
Jim Cone
RV 6A flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Interior paint |
<< What recommendations can anybody give for interior paint? >>
The problem with painting the interior, other than the obvious difficulty of
properly masking these areas, is that the primer surfaces are not usually
fresh when you get around to top coating them. It is an area that is
difficult to sand due to the configuration so be aware that you may have
adherence problems if you are not careful. Some planes I've seen have
patches of paint that just fell off.
I used DuPont Variprime and my recommendation to promote best adhesion is to:
clean the primer surface with naphtha, sand lightly where you can, clean the
surface with naphtha, tack it off, spray a fresh light coat of the same
primer, let it flash off, then apply your chosen top coat.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Ruddock <markr(at)iwl.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
Chris Hill wrote:
> >When they determine airframe limitations, isn't it at gross weight?
>
> I believe it is. I know the couple people I've talked to do aero with
> Two, not sure if they carry less fuel though.
Caution is recommended with acro. Going to the design limit often isn't too good
an idea and to put weight and g's in perspective, think of it as the wings are
holding up(lifting) say 1300 lbs at one g, right? 2 g's -- 2600, 4 g's 5200, 6
g's 7800 --OK then with
1600lbs 2 g's -- 3200, 4 g's 6400, 6 g's 9600
I for one can't imagine putting that much on the wing(static)-- 2 or three cars
say
The acro weight for a 6 is not at gross but 13?? lbs. Be careful out there. Some
acro doen'd require high g's and is still fun.
MTC worth,
Mark Ruddock
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 tail bearings |
Greetings all,
Just finishing up the tail surfaces, and can't seem to find any info on
how far to seat the rod end bearings in the rudder spar. The elevator
bearings are specified to be 13/16" from the spar the center of the
bearing hole. NOT EVEN CLOSE! The elevator leading edge rubs against the
stabilizer spar this way, so, I turned them out two and a half turns. Is
this too much?
The rudder bearings...the top two are, I think, setup the same..but the
bottom bearing...just a bit different. Does anybody have any
measurements that worked out well for them that I can start with? Are
the rigging instructions included later on? I'm not hinging them
permanently, just checking for fit..while I start grinding away on the
fiberglass tips.
Thanks for the support!
Brian Denk
-8 #379
wings a comin..
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick_Smith(at)brahms2.tivoli.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
RV ators,
Following the thread on weight limits for aerobatics.
If the recommended aerobatic gross weight that Van's recommends is exceeded
by the fuel load alone then as far as the wing spar goes the aircraft gets
stronger, right?
The weight of the fuel in the wings is never seen by the wing spar, and the
g-loading on the fuel mass will tend to relieve the spar of g-induced load.
With full tanks at 4 Gs there is an additional 988 lbs pushing down on the
wings from the fuel load that the spar does not see.
For example on a C-310 as the tip tanks are filled the allowable gross
weight of the aircraft goes up beyond the additional weight of the fuel.
It seems that the worst case scenario is to have the fuel tanks empty and
the plane loaded up to gross then pull a bunch of Gs.
Any other opinions on this?
-6 Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNES_ERIC(at)tandem.com |
| Subject: | G-Load Q:150% Safety Factor?(was RV-8 Aerobatics) |
> Another thing I asked the guy at Van's was if he limited himself to
> +-4g or something lower than the total six. He basically said no
> way... he pulls 6g's quit often. Ultimate failure is at +-9g
> following the FAA's 150% safety margin.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I'd like some clarification on this, as I think a lot of people
mis-interpret the 150% margin. I read an article that discribed this as
NOT A SAFETY MARGIN, but a margin that allows for cycle fatigue.
Symantics IF you never exceed it. However, when people think of safety
margins, they tend to partially disregard them. I saw an RV-4 with 7.5
on the G-meter recently, and I doubt it's a once in a lifetime thing.
You engineer types - isn't it true that somewhere in that 50% margin
damage is being done, reducing the ultimate load carrying ability of
the structure (hope I said that right), just without deformity? Enough
cycles past, say 7.5 and sooner or later 7.4 is the ultimate load?
Oops!
EB #80131 Elevators
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNES_ERIC(at)tandem.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
> If you do the math it works out that the RV-8 is really a +5G airplane
> at maximum gross weight. A 6G load at 1500# is equivalent to 5 G's at
> 1800# (6x1500=5x1800). The RV-4 and RV-6 numbers work out about the
> same.
I'd be very leery of doing this kind of math. My understanding is that
G-Limits are for substructures as well as the entire structure. Maybe
it works in that direction (increase weight, decrease g's), but it seems
to imply (wrongly) that at 1250# you could pull 7g's.
Again, any engineer care to explain the subtleties? Topics that involve
possibly breaking the wings off I think are important.
EB #80131
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Interior paint |
>
> << What recommendations can anybody give for interior paint? >>
>
> The problem with painting the interior, other than the obvious difficulty of
> properly masking these areas, is that the primer surfaces are not usually
> fresh when you get around to top coating them. It is an area that is
> difficult to sand due to the configuration so be aware that you may have
> adherence problems if you are not careful. Some planes I've seen have
> patches of paint that just fell off.
>
> I used DuPont Variprime and my recommendation to promote best adhesion is to:
> clean the primer surface with naphtha, sand lightly where you can, clean the
> surface with naphtha, tack it off, spray a fresh light coat of the same
> primer, let it flash off, then apply your chosen top coat.
>
> -GV
>
This sounds like a good idea, but when is the best time to do this?
My plane is finished except for some fiberglass work and all of the
wiring.
Should I fly the plane, shake it down get all of the bugs out then
paint the interior, or paint it now and see if I can finish the
plane without destroying the paint. Maybe doing all the painting at
one time would be best, but masking off the cockpit would be a pain.
Criag Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
Tallahassee, FL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <DougR(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics |
>
> While on the subject of aerobatics in a tandem plane, has anybody
considered
> setting up and RV-8 or -4 to fly solo from the rear seat?
In a -8 with a 540 lyc out front, solo from the rear seat.... Yippee!
Tailwinds, N240 the pink panther
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RE: Interior Paint |
On refillable aerosol cans:
> While walking around my local Harbor Freight store a couple of weeks ago, I
>saw some refillable aerosol cans for sale. You just put your paint, primer
>or whatever in the can and then pressurize it with compressed air.
I thought this was the ticket when I started my kit 3 years ago. Not true.
These cans only hold 90 psi, so they don't spray very long. (Think about the
volume of air needed to run a spray gun) Also the spray quality is poor, and
the clean-up is the same as a touch-up gun. Mine's been gathering dust for
2.9 years.
Kyle Boatright
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jdelveau6(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics |
According to my construction manual (rv-6), Ii think the -4 is also
restricted, the airplane is rated for aerobatics up to a gross weight of
1375lbs. "it is effectively a single place aerobatic airplane". Page
15-23 for those inclined to read that kind of stuff.
Jim Delveau -6 starting Fuse, Flying -4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrench |
>While we are on the subject of torque wrenches, as the oil filter is
>recessed into the firewall on the RV 6, how do you measure the torgue when
>tightening the new filter,, when the wrench won't fit into the recess ?
>John
John,
The oil filter more or less sets flush with the firewall. The recess is
so that you can get the filter completely un-threaded. In fact, I think if
a guy were to grind off the nut on the filter that you could install and
remove the filter without the recess.
I imagine that you could find a combination of wrenches that would allow
you to torque the filter down. I've never torqued my filters with a wrench.
I just tighten 3/4 of a turn after the filter gasket contacts the surface of
the adapter. (I believe this is the recommend method for installation if a
torque wrench is not available.) I haven't had a leak yet. BTW, I used
DC-4 compound instead of engine oil to lube the filter gasket at it works
very well. Makes the filter much easier to remove.
Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
>actually, it reminded me of what a lumchevfok might be like, were all
I'm showing my ignorance again.
What is a lumchevfok?? I can't even pronounce it, much less know what it
is. I assume it is some kind of airborne maneuver, but what? It's been
mentioned 4 or five times lately. I was hoping someone else would display
their ignorance, but no-- here I go. Like Mom said and I didn't listen--
It's better letting people think you're ignorant rather than opening your
mouth and proving it.
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: G-Load Q:150% Safety Factor?(was RV-8 Aerobatics) |
>Symantics IF you never exceed it. However, when people think of safety
>margins, they tend to partially disregard them. I saw an RV-4 with 7.5
>on the G-meter recently, and I doubt it's a once in a lifetime thing.
>
>You engineer types - isn't it true that somewhere in that 50% margin
>damage is being done, reducing the ultimate load carrying ability of
>the structure (hope I said that right), just without deformity? Enough
>cycles past, say 7.5 and sooner or later 7.4 is the ultimate load?
>
>
Lets use a typical RV as an example, loaded to it's aerobatic gross weight.
We say that it is rated for 6g's with a 150% safety margin. What we are
really saying is that the airframe has a 6g limit load factor with a 9g
ultimate load.
No damage is done to the airframe up to 6g's. The structure is bending
within the it's elastic range. That is, it will bend and deform while being
loaded up to 6 g's, but will return to it's original shape once unloaded.
Bad things start to happen in the 6-9 g range. The structure starts to go
into it's plastic range. Once loaded to this level, there is no guarantee
that the structure will return to it's original shape and it might stay
permanently deformed. An indication of this may be wrinkled skins, bent
spars, deformed substructure. At it's ultimate load, 9 g's, the structure
will break. An indication of this might include: wing separating in flight,
loss of the horizontal stab, you get the idea. It is true that once a
structure has gone into it's plastic range that it looses some of it's
strength. Next time it might permanently deform at under 6 g's and break
under 9.
Bottom line, they bend at 6 and break at 9.
Fatigue life is a whole other animal.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV (Canceled the DAR, will petition FAA for the inspection)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com> |
Hi all,
I figured someone else would have mentioned this before, but since no
one has, here goes. When using a "click" type torque wrench it is
IMPRETITIVE to reset the wrench to zero when you are done. Click types
work like the old Chrysler torsion bar front suspension systems. If you
leave them preloaded after using them for any length of time, you can
kiss their accurracy goodby. If they aren't unloaded after use, the
tension will throw their accuracy off.
Beam type torque wrenches are harder to read, but stay accurate longer!
Charlie Kuss
Boca Raton, Fl.
RV-8 empannage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
I must question the 2G statement. When I've rolled in an RV (as a
passenger, so far) there was certainly no 2G sensation! I'm one of these
G-intolerant guys. A 60 degree coordinated turn will indeed induce 2 Gs
but an aileron roll is a different animal. The guys I've flow with sure
don't pull Gs in rolls.
non- acrobatic Dennis 6A fuselage
----------
> From: Richard Bibb <fore.com!rbibb(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Aerobatics?
> Date: Friday, September 19, 1997 8:49 AM
> > >
>
> It is a blast to roll and you only pull 2 Gs if you nail one - a 60
degree
> banks worth. Just watch the nose dropping!
>
> Richard E. Bibb
> RV-4 N144KT
> Oak Hill, VA
> rbibb(at)fore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics |
Very good advice about the slow flight and stalls. I recently went up with
a 6A builder who had me do stalls so he could precisely log the airspeed.
Normally I'm not comfortable doing stalls in my Skyhawk because it takes so
much effort to pull back on the yoke and I never get a break in a power-off
stall anyway -- just a mush. The 6A I flew in gave a little stick shake a
couple of knots before break and flew out smoothly as soon as I released
back pressure. It was a real confidence builder! (I clearly am not an acro
man!)
Dennis 6A fuselage plugging along
----------
> From: John Darby <our-town.com!johnd(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Aerobatics
> Date: Friday, September 19, 1997 7:11 AM
>
>
> I would recommend that one should be very proficient at slow flight and
> accelerated stall recognition, right up to the feather edge between
flying
> and falling before doing acro. When the a/c becomes a rock, you need to
> know how to get it back to being an a/c.
>
> Til this day, on the first flight in an a/c, I do a stall series at alt.
> before going in to land. I highly recommend it. As you know, some a/c
tell
> you loud and clear, others say nothing, before going from flying to
becoming
> a rock.
>
> Hell, you guys know this, I'm probably preaching to the choir.
>
> John Darby
> Stephenville TX
> johnd@our-town.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick and Barbara Osgood <randbosgood(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank rivet sealing |
Dr John Cocker wrote:
>
> Rick, sorry I don't have it any more, but it was not thin, it was two
> small
> bars about 1" x 1/2", and they had to be kneaded together until the
> color
> was uniform.
Thanks for the effort John. I appreciate it.
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net> |
Can someone e-mail off the list and explain or show me how to unsubsribe?
Mike Comeaux-----------mcomeaux(at)cmc.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Template for -6A gear leg hole |
I cut out an elegant ellipse only to discover that the bottom skin would
not fit over the gear mounts if they were in place during skin assembly.
This is because the gear mounts splay outwards. I was pretty disappointed
and simply enlarged my carefully crafted ellipses until the skin would go
over the stubs for the legs. I wasn't about to unscrew all those screws
holding the gear mounts in place!
I now think this was good fortune, as some builders of planes flying have
reported chaffing at the gear leg cutouts due to vibration. I will seal up
my oversized cutouts with some kind of elastomer when the time comes.
Dennis 6A fuselage
----------
> From: Doug Medema <mailhost.physio-control.com!dougm(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Template for -6A gear leg hole
> Date: Friday, September 19, 1997 12:44 PM
>
Medema)
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm at the point of making the holes in the front bottom skin
> that allow the gear mounts to stick out the bottom. The
> hole needs to be an ellipse (the projection of a cylinder
> on a plane intersecting the cylinder at about 45 degrees.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrench |
t. BTW, I used
> DC-4 compound instead of engine oil to lube the filter gasket at it works
> very well. Makes the filter much easier to remove.
>
> Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
>
If you do oil analysis you will see silica levels that are very high with
this procedure. Most oil analysis labs will report this as a faulty air
filter. If you are doing analysis I would not recommend this procedure.
Tailwinds, RV-4 N240 the pink panther
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JAllen6526(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RST Intercom Panel-Reply |
I built one of these intercom's. It was my 2nd RST kit, the first one being
a portable intercom (which worked quite well).
After I built the panel mount unit it did not work correctly. I sent it off
to RST and for $40 they fixed it. I tried it again and it lasted for about
1/2 hour. Now it's sitting in my closet.
The kit was complete. The instructions were very clear. I had no problem
building it with my rudimentary skills. I thought the feature set was good.
My only complaint was that the squelch circuit did not seem as good as off
the shelf units. The fact that it failed was probably not the fault of RST.
Electronics often suffer from infant mortality, or I might have overheated
some sensitive component without knowing it.
The net result is that I spent whatever the cost of the kit was, plus $40 for
repair. Now I have an intercom that doesn't work and it's nobody's fault. I
have no warranty on my own workmanship not do I have the means to
troubleshoot it.
John Allen
RV6A Finishing kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrench |
>
>While on the subject of torque, I recently looked at my chart to find the
>proper torque for a 3/8-24 AN bolt and it listed it as 160-190 in-lbs.
> However, there was another column labled "90,000 psi in bolt" and the number
>in that column was 390 in-lbs. Does anyone know what this other column is
>for?
>
>Bruce Green
>
>
Another person not using AC43-13A -- the Bible ...:^)
Table 5.2 in this document gives the call outs for the stronger bolts of
the second column.
MS2004 to MS2024
NAS144 to NAS158
..
..
NAS517
9 series of bolt types are listed. These are higher strength bolts
than the standard AN series.
A third column also exists for Al bolts with a lower torque value
Gil (buy AC43-13A!) Alexander
-------------------------------------------------------
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrench |
| From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
>The oil filter more or less sets flush with the firewall. The recess is
>so that you can get the filter completely un-threaded. In fact, I think
if
>a guy were to grind off the nut on the filter that you could install and
>remove the filter without the recess.
This is completely true. I was too lazy when constructing the firewall
to build the recess, (this was back when you had to actually *build* the
firewall) and since I was only planning on FP, I left it flat. If you
cut the nut off flush with the filter can and flatten the safety wire
ears slightly it will go on, but it is fairly snug. It took me 3 oil
changes to figure out how to get it off without giving the engine an oil
bath. I have a quart plastic container (cottage cheese or similar) with
a loop of wire on the top. I hang the wire over the filter flange such
that the container is snug up against the bottom of the flange. Then
loosen the fiter, let the oil drain into the cup, and remove.
>I just tighten 3/4 of a turn after the filter gasket contacts the
surface of
>the adapter. (I believe this is the recommend method for installation if
a
>torque wrench is not available.) I haven't had a leak yet. BTW, I used
>DC-4 compound instead of engine oil to lube the filter gasket
I put a new filter on the engine before installation and knowing that I'd
never be able to torque it again, I checked it. 18 pounds came at
exactly 15/16 of a turn after the gasket contacted the seat. So now I
use 7/8-15/16. I didn't use DC-4 the first time, and had a very
difficult time removing the filter. I use it religiously now. It comes
in a pretty big tube, probably enough for a couple thousand filters, so
maybe if you've got some more film canisters laying around Bob... :-)
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel H. Morris III" <Morristec(at)icdc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: G-Load Q:150% Safety Factor?(was RV-8 Aer |
> I'd like some clarification on this, as I think a lot of people
> mis-interpret the 150% margin. I read an article that discribed this as
> NOT A SAFETY MARGIN, but a margin that allows for cycle fatigue.
>
The philosophy behind the flight loads from an FAA perspective are this.
The 6 G specification comes from FAR part 23. It has been established here
what the normally anticipated loading for a given category of airplane will
be. Note that that doesn't necessarily mean unlimited aerobatics. This
loading (called limit loading) for the aerobatic category is to be not less
than +6 G and -3 G. Proper design will permit rapid and full control
deflection up to Maneuvering speed (Va) without exceeding the limit loading
for a given airplane. Van has chosen +- 6 G and assigned a maneuvering
speed of 132 MPH at a gross weight of 1375lbs. Assuming that he followed
the FAR 23 requirements under those conditions you can't exceed G loading
with control movements.
Under test at these conditions no part of the aircraft should yield
(permanently deflect). The 1.5 multiplier for the safety factor is applied
to the ultimate load where yield and failure may occur after 3 seconds.
The purpose of the safety factor is to deal with the combined effects of :
Airspeed system errors
Structural tolerances during manufacture (such as material thickness)
General wear and tear (rivets working), minor damage, corrosion, etc.
Other minor deviations from the design during construction.
The 1.5 safety factor does not specifically address fatigue directly, but
it is one of the many cumulative effects. BTW, fatigue is now required to
be dealt with separately under the FARs. Note that nowhere do I mention
intentional over loading or overspeeding the aircraft. Design for Va and
Vne should account separately for a 10% safety factor in speeds also.
Again these are for aircraft errors, not pilot errors. Also you wouldn't
want the wing to break right at the limits would you?
There may be other valid comments but you should get the idea. FYI, I do
FAA certification work for this kind of stuff.
Sorry for the long post.
Dan Morris
Morristec(at)icdc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Interior paint |
Randolph Products sells material in spray cans and quarts. I am using their
Lycoming Gray for interior things. The spray can is sure handy for small
parts that you need to paint "now" to make progress. The quart is for the
future when the bulk gets it. Stuff that will be under cloth stays primer.
I hate to say the work Primer on the list, but I would suggest anyone
starting out use a primer that comes in spray cans and bulk. The number of
times I have had to clean out a spray gun for five small parts is a bad
memory.
Bruce Patton
Waiting for Terra Radio Trays (2 months now)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 tail bearings |
>Just finishing up the tail surfaces, and can't seem to find any info on
>how far to seat the rod end bearings in the rudder spar. The elevator
>bearings are specified to be 13/16" from the spar the center of the
>bearing hole. NOT EVEN CLOSE! The elevator leading edge rubs against the
>stabilizer spar this way, so, I turned them out two and a half turns. Is
>this too much?
Brian, on the rv-6 rudder, on drawing 6PP(lower left corner) , you set the
distance from the VS spar to the Rudder spar at 2 inches at the top and at
2.5 inches at the bottom. ie from vs603pp to r602pp. This does work out
to more than 13/16", however the distance is greater at the bottom of the
rudder.
Regards,
Tom Velvick Peoria, AZ USA
rver(at)caljet.com
rv-6 working on wing rear spars, thinking about ordering fuselage and
seeing flying RV's at the Copperstate fly-in Oct 9th-12th
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bstobbe(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
writes:
>What is a lumchevfok?? I can't even pronounce it, much less know what
>it is. I assume it is some kind of airborne maneuver, but what?
I was very fortunate to have recently been given a ride (and I mean RIDE)
in an Extra 300 by an airshow (including Osh) veteran. The pilot
demonstrated just about everything the airplane can do, including a
lomchevak. However, even though I rode through the maneuver (and stayed
conscious), I have to rely on my memory of what he said it consisted of
since it didn't take long to complete and it was really tough to keep any
reasonable orientation: a 6g pull to vertical, a 1/4 roll on the
vertical line, an outside snap roll using full deflection of all controls
incuding ailerons, then about half-way through the outside snap, reverse
the ailerons and hang on. Man, talk about fun...
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvator97(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | aluminum tubing vs. flex hoses |
I sure seem to have problems working with the alum tubing for the brake
lines, fuel tank vent lines, fuel lines, etc.
Have problems with bending at the right spot, accidentally crimping, flaring,
etc.
Am considering using flex, (areoquip) hoses for just about everything. Sure
seems to be easier to work with.
What are the groups thoughts on this? Does Van's use the tubing because it is
the lightest and cheapest way to go? Any disadvantages to using the flex
hoses?(other than cost and weight?)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Blake Harral <bharral(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Concorde RG Battery Dimensions |
Couple of questions for my fellow listers:
Can anyone supply me with the exact dimensions of the Concorde RG25 and
RG25XC batteries?
I bought an overhaul manual for my Bendix magnetos last year, but I
can't seem to locate it at the moment. Are there any special
instructions for attaching the magneto gears to the magnetos
themselves? An aquaintance claims that the torque values for attaching
these gears are fairly critical. The nuts use cotter keys, so any
torque values will end up being approximate (you have to align the nut
with the cotter key hole in the bolt).
Thanks for any replies
Blake Harral RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MoeJoe" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
charset="iso-8859-1"
I guess it depends on who does the roll, and how hard they pull the nose up
on entry. In the Citabria I fly, I routinely pull 3 g's in the entry, and
hold a little over 1 in the roll. Maybe I'm a little aggressive on the pull
up, but the plane loses speed so fast you have to be to get a good roll
rate. Besides, it rolls so damn slow that I need a fast pullup to get my
pulse going.
Moe
>I must question the 2G statement. When I've rolled in an RV (as a
>passenger, so far) there was certainly no 2G sensation! I'm one of these
>G-intolerant guys. A 60 degree coordinated turn will indeed induce 2 Gs
>but an aileron roll is a different animal. The guys I've flow with sure
>don't pull Gs in rolls.
> non- acrobatic Dennis 6A fuselage
>----------
>> From: Richard Bibb <fore.com!rbibb(at)matronics.com>
>> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Aerobatics?
>> Date: Friday, September 19, 1997 8:49 AM
>> > >
>>
>> It is a blast to roll and you only pull 2 Gs if you nail one - a 60
>degree
>> banks worth. Just watch the nose dropping!
>>
>> Richard E. Bibb
>> RV-4 N144KT
>> Oak Hill, VA
>> rbibb(at)fore.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 tail bearings |
Brian,
I'm sitting here drinking my morning coffee so I don't have my plans in
front of me but as I remember...
The plans give dimentions between the spars at the tip and inboard for bo=
th
elevators and rudder. Using the end brackets already in place, I worked
backwards to come up with a figure for the center of the bearing in both
places. After the first fitting minor adjustments were needed. The plan=
s
figures are for the ends of the surfaces and not where the bearings are
located, as I remember, I too had to back off slightly to prevent rubbing=
=2E =
When I was happy with the clearance, I made minor adjustments to be sure =
it
was straight. The gap between the fixed and control surfaces is not
constant along the hinge line. I made adjustments so that the
counterweight control horn was evenly spaced along its length from the
fixed surface. It looks good to me! :-)
After I was happy with the fit I removed the control surface and installe=
d
the center rod end bearing to a rough fit. I ran some dental floss (lots=
of uses for that stuff on this kit) through the center of the bearings
(held in place with a small eye hook at one end) and made the final
adjustments on the center bearing. =
The final fit came out nice in all cases. This does require several
mounting and removals of the surfaces but after a little practice it gets=
easier to get the bolts in! Vans suggests using inexpensive hardware sto=
re
bolts during the fitting process to avoid marking up the expensive AN
hardware. =
You will notice that downward travel of the elevator is restricted by the=
control horn hitting the HS spar flange. This flange will be cut away
during rigging to achieve the proper travel.
Scott A. Jordan
80331
N733JJ
Second trim tab on order, wings in the spring.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Concorde RG Battery Dimensions |
Blake & fellow listers:
The dimensions of my RG25 are:
Length: 7 3/4"
Width: 5 1/8"
Height: 7 3/8 (to the top of the terminal posts)
Doug Weiler,
MN Wing, Van's AirForce
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <r.acker(at)thegrid.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Unsubscribing |
> Can someone e-mail off the list and explain or show me how to unsubsribe?
> Mike Comeaux-----------mcomeaux(at)cmc.net
That information is contained at the bottom of every message on the list,
including the one you posted.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
| From: | lm4(at)juno.com (Larry Mac Donald) |
posted by: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
actually, it reminded me of what a lumchevfok might be like, were all
I'm showing my ignorance again.
What is a lumchevfok??
I can't even pronounce it, much less know what it is. I assume it is
some kind of airborne maneuver, but what? It's been mentioned 4 or five
times lately. I was hoping someone else would display their ignorance,
but no-- here I go. Like Mom said and I didn't listen--It's better
letting people think you're ignorant rather than opening your mouth and
proving it.
John Darby Stephenville TX johnd@our-town.com
John,
Don't feel ignorant. A lot of people say it and can't spell it.
See it and can't describe it. It is either a Hungarian or Polish word.
I've forgotten which. In one of those languages it means headache. In the
other it means confusion, or so I've been told. I also can't describe it
accurately, but in general it is something like this. The plane gets up a
head of steam and starts to climb. It then goes into a roll. Then while
traveling in a roughly straight line it's wings follow that line, wingtip
over wingtip, then tail over engine. Somewhere in that mess it's also
doing snap rolls. If you see it, you probably won't believe it. You
probably won't be able to describe it either. And in all likelihood you
won't be able to spell it .
Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
<< What is a lumchevfok?? >>
It's actually lomchevok (I'm fairly certain of the spelling but I could be
one character off) and is supposedly Polish for headache. It is an ass over
tea kettle manuever on the upswing like approaching a hammerhead and then
going kattywumpus.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: G-Load Q:150% Safety Factor?(was RV-8 Aer |
Daniel H. Morris III wrote:
>
**snip**
>
> There may be other valid comments but you should get the idea. FYI, I do
> FAA certification work for this kind of stuff.
>
> Sorry for the long post.
>
> Dan Morris
> Morristec(at)icdc.com
>
Dan don't be sorry, thats good stuff we can ALL learn from.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cutting parts |
I need a bandsaw. Surprise! And from what I'm hearing, the Harbor Freight
sounds like a better item than Sears. ]
Could someone tell me
1. What's the blade length/width?
2. Can it be fitted with a sanding belt?
3. How can I contact them?
Thanks,
Bob Fritz
Tail's done, saving for QB6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrench |
Both are more than sufficient for your purposes. The dial type sometimes
requires a mirror to read but the click type doesn't let you sneak up on the
final setting without re-adjusting it each time i.e. you're doing head bolts
and want to torque them to 75 ft-lbs. in three stages. With the dial type
you do them to 25 then 60 then 75 in a non-stop sequence. But the click type
requires you to re-set the wrench each cycle.
My advice? Buy the one that's prettiest in the tool box and ask for the
other for Xmas.
Bob Fritz
Tail's done preparing for the QB6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 tail bearings |
<< The rudder bearings...the top two are, I think, setup the same..but the
bottom bearing...just a bit different. Does anybody have any
measurements that worked out well for them that I can start with? >>
If your spars are perfectly straight, just trig it out.
If not, you will have to adjust empirically.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Interior paint |
<< > I used DuPont Variprime and my recommendation to promote best adhesion
is to:
> clean the primer surface with naphtha, sand lightly where you can, clean
the
> surface with naphtha, tack it off, spray a fresh light coat of the same
> primer, let it flash off, then apply your chosen top coat.
>
> -GV
>
This sounds like a good idea, but when is the best time to do this?
My plane is finished except for some fiberglass work and all of the
wiring. >>
I did mine about halfway thru the Fuselage construction.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | aluminum tubing vs. flex hoses |
On my first RV-6A, I used teflon w/ss braid cover for the brake lines going
from the fuselage sides to the caliper and the rest per plans, including dual
brakes. I always had softer pedals than I liked and I believe that was due to
the flexible pressure lines. I am going to use as much aluminum tubing as I
can on my new one and to a single brake system. As far as the other lines, I
don't know of any reason not to use flexible hoses except for their life
expectancy and any periodic inspection requirements.
If you're using bending tools and a decent flaring tool, you shouldn't have
that much trouble with bends and flares. Even if you are, as cheap as the
tubing is, redoing a few pieces to get them right would seem to me to be a
better option than going to expensive and heavy flex lines and any other
attendant problems.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ
I sure seem to have problems working with the alum tubing for the brake
lines, fuel tank vent lines, fuel lines, etc.
Have problems with bending at the right spot, accidentally crimping, flaring,
etc.
Am considering using flex, (areoquip) hoses for just about everything. Sure
seems to be easier to work with.
What are the groups thoughts on this? Does Van's use the tubing because it is
the lightest and cheapest way to go? Any disadvantages to using the flex
hoses?(other than cost and weight?)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ross Johnson <mobi(at)slkc.uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Unsubscribing |
mcomeaux wrote:
>
>
> Can someone e-mail off the list and explain or show me how to unsubsribe?
>
> Mike Comeaux-----------mcomeaux(at)cmc.net
>
Me too! I have tried ten times to unsubscribe. I apreciate the mail but
cant deal with so much mail that jams up my regular mail. I have tried
[Un] subscribe, unsubscribe, etc etc. nothing has
stopped it. Does anyone know how to unsubscribe?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
| Subject: | aluminum tubing vs. flex hoses |
Because the FAA book says that the homebuilt needs to have 1 hour of
taxi under the belt before flying, I did that, fearing thry would reject
me. It melted one of the brake hoses that was curled against the wheel
pants mounting plate. I revised that line with a short piece of copper
tubing and reconnected it to the plastic tubing. I certainly would
recommend something different than the plastic, at least near the brake
calipers. I also would not recommend 1 hour of taxi also.
John Kitz
N721JK
150 hours, doing first annual
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan Carroll <carroll(at)geology.wisc.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
>Following the thread on weight limits for aerobatics.
>If the recommended aerobatic gross weight that Van's recommends is exceeded
>by the fuel load alone then as far as the wing spar goes the aircraft gets
>stronger, right?
>The weight of the fuel in the wings is never seen by the wing spar, and the
>g-loading on the fuel mass will tend to relieve the spar of g-induced load.
>For example on a C-310 as the tip tanks are filled the allowable gross
>weight of the aircraft goes up beyond the additional weight of the fuel.
Wouldn't this only be true if the fuel is in the tips, or else distributed
evenly along the whole length of the spar? It seems to me that if the fuel
is concentrated near the wing roots it will still contribute to the load
the wing has to carry?
Alan Carroll
RV-8 #80177 (Wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alan Carroll <carroll(at)geology.wisc.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
>> If you do the math it works out that the RV-8 is really a +5G airplane
>> at maximum gross weight. A 6G load at 1500# is equivalent to 5 G's at
>> 1800# (6x1500=5x1800). The RV-4 and RV-6 numbers work out about the
>> same.
>
>I'd be very leery of doing this kind of math. My understanding is that
>G-Limits are for substructures as well as the entire structure. Maybe
>it works in that direction (increase weight, decrease g's), but it seems
>to imply (wrongly) that at 1250# you could pull 7g's.
>
I certainly didn't mean to imply that anyone should exceed the design
limit. The point was that there is a reason why you can't pull 6-G's at
max. gross. My understanding is that the wings are designed to carry a
specific limt load, not for a load factor. At higher weights, therefore,
you can exceed the limt load (with bad consequences) without ever exceeding
6-G. My understanding about substructures is the same as yours. For
example, during a 7-G pullup at reduced weight the wings might be ok, but
other structures supporting constant-weight components (like the engine!)
could fail.
Personally I'm inclined to be pretty conservative about pulling more than
4-5 G's at any weight, for reasons of both safety and comfort - are there
many RV pilots who routinely go up to 6?
Alan Carroll
RV-8 #80177 (Wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Unsubscribing |
Ross Johnson wrote:
>
+
> Me too! I have tried ten times to unsubscribe. I apreciate the mail but
> cant deal with so much mail that jams up my regular mail. I have tried
> [Un] subscribe, unsubscribe, etc etc. nothing has
> stopped it. Does anyone know how to unsubscribe?
>
Ok here it is one more time
To unsubscribe from the RV-List, email
*rv-list-request(at)matronics.com*
& put the *unsubscribe* in the *body*. No other text or
subject.
don't put the little stars in, they are just for highlighiting.
If you have problems knowing what the body or subject is email me
and I WILL TRY TO EXPLAIN.
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aluminum tubing vs. flex hoses |
Which FAA book says to have one hour taxi?
If it does I am sure it could be done after the inspection.
Is the just a recommendation maybe?
John Kitz wrote:
>
>
> Because the FAA book says that the homebuilt needs to have 1 hour of
> taxi under the belt before flying, I did that, fearing thry would reject
> me. It melted one of the brake hoses that was curled against the wheel
> pants mounting plate. I revised that line with a short piece of copper
> tubing and reconnected it to the plastic tubing. I certainly would
> recommend something different than the plastic, at least near the brake
> calipers. I also would not recommend 1 hour of taxi also.
> John Kitz
> N721JK
> 150 hours, doing first annual
>
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JimNolan(at)mail.kconline.com |
Guys,
My bottom mount com antenna is giving me trouble and I want to go
to a top mounted antenna. I have an RV-4. Which antenna will fit the
best over the rounded surface of my fuselage. I've seen bondo used to
dress up the mount of some antennas, but I don't want to do that.
Jim Nolan N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 3rd Annual Northeast RV Builders Forum, EAA |
Chapter 486
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic w Stucklen) |
Marcia,
Nice plug for the forum! See you next weekend.....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Working on second RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)op.net> |
| Subject: | Re: aluminum tubing vs. flex hoses |
>
>Because the FAA book says that the homebuilt needs to have 1 hour of
>taxi under the belt before flying, I did that, fearing thry would
reject
>me. =20
That's really a good idea if you have a brand new or 0-SMOH engine. I'm
sure the manufacturers
recommend that a fresh engine be broken in at gentle taxi speeds. I
suppose that Alice in Wonderland is the handbook
used by some of the people at the FAA. Where else could they get some of
their ideas?
On a related subject... I just returned from 4 days of training in a
Pitts S2-A from Budd Davisson. All of this was pattern work(Take off's
and Landings). I wanted to get some solid experience before I soloed my
RV-4, since I only have limited tail wheel experience. Budd spends a lot
of time doing high speed taxies as an introduction to, and training for
footwork. Also, you need to learn to see the runway thru your ears 'cause
there is no view ahead. Anyway, Budd says that the scariest and most
dangerous thing he does in all of his training, to
include aerobatics, is this high speed taxi work. I agree fully. I know
the RV's are docile compared to a Pitts, but H.S. taxies are for test
pilots and are probably not needed in the RV. If you have adequate tail
wheel or even nose wheel training and experience, you will know if your
A/C is tracking well and responding to your inputs. Why take a chance of
loosing control in a series of high speed taxi tests. I think the trick
is pretend you are soloing for the first time. Remember how alert you
were to everything you were doing? You were
giving throttle, right rudder, then maybe some opposite rudder,
making,wind correction responses, elevator responses, listening to your
engine tick, etc. You were fresh from a lot of intensive training. THAT
is probably the mind set we should have for our first test flight. A few
hours of full stop T.O.'s and landings the day before is probably a good
idea.
I'm thinking that most of my ideas are conventional, but....having worked
for DuPont's Textile Fibers Division, I've got e designer collection of
Nomex suits. I'm trying them on for size right now.
Louis Willig, larywil(at)op.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott M. Kuebler" <keebs(at)buffnet.net> |
| Subject: | To rivet, or not to rivet?? |
Hello,
I have a question on riveting the skins to the HS & VS. One project I
saw did not rivet the inside edge of the HS or the bottom edge of the
VS. The owner said they were left out untill the fiberglass trim piece
was installed to mate to empannage to the fuselage. But, I have also
seen these rivets installed along with all of the others in the skins.
So, are these rivet holes used to install the fiberglass, or do you
drill new holes for it? From looking at pictures it looks like you
would drill new holes for the fiberglass piece, so it would be alright
to rivet those holes now, but I want to double check.
Thanks in advance,
Scott
RV-6 (emp. control surfaces)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Re: To rivet, or not to rivet?? |
Scott, the fiberglass fairing that fairs the horizontal stabilizer and
the verical stabilizer HAS TO BE REMOVABLE. DO NOT rivet it to the
skins. Go ahead and rivet the bottom edge of the VS and the inside
edges of the HS now. They are easily done using a squeezer. The
fairing will eventually be installed using screws, nutplates or some
other form of hardware which makes it removable in order to inspect the
bolts that mount the HS and VS as well as the mechanical trim tab cable
and other assorted stuff.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bstobbe(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting parts |
writes:
>2. Can it be fitted with a sanding belt?
Not as far as I can tell - at least on the one I bought...
>3. How can I contact them?
800-423-2567 or fax 800-905-5220
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
>
>
>
>
>I'm showing my ignorance again.
>
>What is a lumchevfok?? I can't even pronounce it, much less know what
it
>is. I assume it is some kind of airborne maneuver, but what? It's
been
>mentioned 4 or five times lately. I was hoping someone else would
display
>their ignorance, but no-- here I go. Like Mom said and I didn't
listen--
>It's better letting people think you're ignorant rather than opening
your
>mouth and proving it.
>
>
>
>John Darby
>Stephenville TX
>johnd@our-town.com
>
>
>
>John,
The "Lomcevok"..or, whatever means of spelling you care to use..is a
Czechoslovakian (sp?) term for "headache". Basically, a gyroscopic
tumble...usually an outside snaproll that is then cross-controlled,
resulting in a nose over tail tumble. There are MANY views as to what
this is supposed to look like, what the English translation means,
etc..but, bottom line....a real POUNDING on airplane and pilot! The last
time I did this with my 1/3 scale IMAC RC Laser 200, the tank support
brackets came loose! Good thing I wasn't IN the thing myself!
Brian "Akroguy" Denk
-8 #379
wings ordered
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: To rivet, or not to rivet?? |
>I have a question on riveting the skins to the HS & VS. One project I
>saw did not rivet the inside edge of the HS or the bottom edge of the
>VS. The owner said they were left out untill the fiberglass trim piece
>was installed to mate to empannage to the fuselage. But, I have also
>seen these rivets installed along with all of the others in the skins.
>Scott
>RV-6 (emp. control surfaces)
Scott,
The builders who put in all of the rivets will probably end up drilling
some out and maybe even flattening a few dimples. I left this area
un-riveted and after my empanage fairing was fitted picked out the holes
that I wanted to use for the nut plates, installed them and then dimpled the
rest of the holes and riveted them.
Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | inspections and annuals |
There is a little confusion on my part about working on and signing off
on work done to an experimental airplane. I was told by an I.A. that as
long as the original builder owns the experimental airplane, he can do
all the mechanical work and has to get an A+P to sign off the annual
inspections. However, if it is sold to someone else, then the new owner
must treat the experimental plane as if it is a factory built
certificated airplane. This would mean the new owner who did not build
the plane can't do anything other than minor maintenance on the plane
without getting an A+P to sign it off in the logs. Also, an I.A. has to
do the annual inspection sign off. If any one knows for sure if this is
correct or wrong, please let me know. Thanks, alot. I'm all ready for
my second shot at an inspection. Just can't get in touch with the DAR.
I even found a bolt with too many washers on it that he missed. I fixed
it anyway.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6 empanage fairing |
Fellow RVers,
I laid up my own empanage fairing when building my first RV-6 because the
fit of the factory fairing was less than ideal:) Since I knew that I was
going to build another RV-6, I turned this "laid up on the plane" fairing
into a mold. I then laid up my empanage fairing out of this mold.
I had several friends who were building RV-6s and were complaining about
the fit of the factory fairing so, I told them that I'd make a fairing out
of my mold. Because of plane to plane differences, I didn't think a four
layer lay-up was a very good idea. I layed up a one layer laminate out of
epoxy. This is very flimsy and flexible. This is the method that I advised
them to follow: protect the horizontal stabilizer and verticle stabilizer
surface with adhesive backed shelf paper and then work of fitting the
fairing. In places where the fairling didn't fit up tight, for instance,
around the vert. stab., you can cut the 1 layer laminate easily with a razor
blade and glue it back in position with body putty. When finally fitted, I
recommended that they apply double sided tape along where the edges of the
fairing were on the H.S. and V.S. and stick the edges down. Then, after the
fairing was cleaned up (sanded, degeased, etc.) they layed up another 3
layers of cloth and epoxy.
Three different RV-6s used this method. On two of the planes, the fairing
fit very well and no modification was needed. On one, there was a fit
problem and some cutting and "welding" had to be done. I think all three of
the builders thought this method was easier than trying to get the factory
fairing to fit.
The reason for this long-winded E-mail: I've been thinking for quite some
time that maybe I should offer this fairing to fellow RVers. I don't want
to get too carried away with the project as I hate fiberglass work and have
some other things I want to do, but thought maybe I could pick up a little
"pocket money" (cigar money??) and help fellow builders at the same time.
Also, I don't really know how much this fairing would be worth. There is
some work involved for the builder but it does result in a nice fairing. If
a few of you listers want to give it a try, E-mail me off list and we'll see
what we can work out. You can be the "beta testers". By the way, I think
epoxy is the way to go. I've seen several polyester fairings that had been
re-done but, after being on the plane for awhile, started warping and
gapping. Epoxy is more stable and the weave is less likely to show through
the paint. I don't know if Van's is still gel coating the empanage fairing
but the clear epoxy fairing allows you to locate the holes for the nutplates
easliy. I know Van's quit gel coating their spinners and it makes spinner
installation a lot easier.
Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | How to Unsubscribe from the list |
Send your E-Mail to:
rv-list-request(at)matronics.com
Do NOT send it to: rv-list@matronics
If you just hit the reply button you will be sending it to the WRONG address!
After you have addressed it correctly to rv-list-request(at)matronics.com
then skip the subject line.....thats the line that says "Subject" and go
directly to the body area of the message which is the big empty white space
under the header area and type only the word:
unsubscribe
in the body area. NOT "unscribe" or "[un]subscribe" but only the word:
unsubscribe
Now hit the "SEND" button before you goof it up.
This is no flame only trying to be perfectly CLEAR ! Good luck with reading
your plans............ AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
<< What is a lumchevfok?? >>
Loosely translated from the Russian, it means "headache". This is what you
get from completing the maneuver. A seemingly impossible-to-recover-from
tumbling type of maneuver.
Gene, Flying in June '96 ( but date may be subject to review)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martin W. Sailer Jr." <mwsailer(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Wing Tip Antenna's |
Jim;
I read in the RV-list that you were looking for interest in wing tip
antenna's. I am building an RV-6 and put a half inch chase out to both
wing tips. My plan is to put a back-up comm in one wing marker beacon
antenna in the other and maybe the GS ant. in the engine cowling (if it
would work).I'll watch for a possible article in kitplane. I built and
installed your audio panel in my PA-28. It works great! I plan on using
your panel again along with the Marker Beacon.
Marty Sailer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Painting, as in picture.. |
I recieved a letter from a Lon Lohrman of Wichita Ks that he had painted a
picture of my airplane. I would be recieving it with an invoice and could
keep it or return it. I assume he took it's picture at OSH. There was a
picture of this painting included. It was unmistakably my airplane, pink
panther and all. I just wondered if this was legit or a scam. Anybody
else?
Tailwinds, N240 the pink panther
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-8 Aerobatics? |
Everyone seems to agree that the RV's pick up speed too quickly during
aerobatics, now what are some ways to increase drag on the downline? CS prop
is a given, but what about a 3 bladed prop? I heard leaving the fiberglass
tips off the wings also increases drag. Any other ideas?
**************
MoeJoe,
In previous notes you stated that your goal was aerobatics, not cross
country.
I had similar interests. To determine how well adapted I was to the
attitudes and
stresses involved, I found an instructor in Dayton Ohio with a Pitts S2B.
After about
three hours of instruction, flew in an aerobatic competition, with the
instructor
along as the safety pilot. Took first place in Basic catagory , the other
entry in
this catagory took second :<)
This was a fantastic experience. After this limited experience, I could
understand
what Van had told me about not recommending RV's for competition.
If aerobatics is your interest, check out IAC compitition and get some
instruction in a Pitts or similar aircraft, from someone that competes. One
word of warning, its
adictive.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-3 hs spar |
| From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS) |
writes:
>
>
Hi All,
I didn't like drilling holes in the HS spar. I don't even remember where
to hole was supposed to be drilled.
I just ran the trim cable over the top of HS spar and elevator tube and
jogged it onto the elevator rib for the trim tab.
It works on a RV-3, and fits under the VS/HS intersection fairing.
The 20 pages of building instructions I received with the RV-3 plans did
leave a little bit to be desired.
I haven't gotten that far on my RV-4 tail kit yet to see how I'm going to
do it there. Probably just follow the plans.
Jim Ayers
RV-3 LOM M332A engine Ivoprop Magnum prop Sportcraft Wingtip COM
Antenna
>HELP!
> When I came to dilling the hole for the trim cable I found that I
>could only drill a 1/4 inch before I started to knotch into the spar cap
>bars. At this point I stoped, stood back, and decided that there was no
way I
>would knotch the bars to fit a 1/2+ inch hole.Has any one else had this
>problem ?
>How do you work round it ? Am I just being to conservative and should
>just close my eyes, drill the hole, and wear a parachute!?!?
>
>RV-3 Builder David Howse (c/o David Peck)
>president RV builder group
>Victoria/Tasmania
>Australia
>regards
>David Peck
>dpeck(at)ozemail.com.au
>Perth, Western Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
| From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS) |
writes:
>
>I guess it depends on who does the roll, and how hard they pull the
>nose up on entry. In the Citabria I fly, I routinely pull 3 g's in the
entry,
>and hold a little over 1 in the roll. Maybe I'm a little aggressive on
the
>pull up, but the plane loses speed so fast you have to be to get a good
>roll rate. Besides, it rolls so damn slow that I need a fast pullup to
get
>my pulse going.
>
>Moe
Hi Moe,
The RV is a little different in rolls than you described for the
citabria.
The roll rate is MUCh higher, and speed bleed-off is less.
By just establishing a positive climb rate (negligible additional g's),
it's possible to do a nice aileron roll.
I found it gets a little sloppy with a 90 mph entry speed. :-)
BTW, why not unload the airplane (1/2 to 1/4 g) while upside down. Gas
and oil flow, but the ground doesn't jump in front of you.
Jim Ayers
Less_Drag(at)juno.com
RV-3 LOM M332A Ivoprop Sportcraft Antenna's
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: inspections and annuals |
| From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS) |
(Michael C. Lott) writes:
>
>There is a little confusion on my part about working on and signing
>off on work done to an experimental airplane. I was told by an I.A.
that
>as long as the original builder owns the experimental airplane, he can
do
>all the mechanical work and has to get an A+P to sign off the annual
>inspections. However, if it is sold to someone else, then the new
>owner must treat the experimental plane as if it is a factory built
>certificated airplane. This would mean the new owner who did not
>build the plane can't do anything other than minor maintenance on the
plane
>without getting an A+P to sign it off in the logs. Also, an I.A. has
>to do the annual inspection sign off. If any one knows for sure if this
>is correct or wrong, please let me know. Thanks, alot. I'm all ready
>for my second shot at an inspection. Just can't get in touch with the
>DAR.
>I even found a bolt with too many washers on it that he missed. I
>fixed it anyway.
Hi All,
One item that the I.A. left off is getting the aircraft repairmens
certificate for yourself, so you can do all of the maintenance and the 12
month condition inspection.
Jim Ayers
Less_Drag(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: inspections and annuals |
Michael C. Lott wrote:
>
>
> There is a little confusion on my part about working on and signing off
> on work done to an experimental airplane. I was told by an I.A. that as
> long as the original builder owns the experimental airplane, he can do
> all the mechanical work and has to get an A+P to sign off the annual
> inspections.
Michael
The IA is wrong about having to have a A&P sign off
annuals. If you are the owner builder and get a repairman certificate
from the FAA for your airplane you can do all the work and inspections
yourself. On a experimental it is called a Condition Inspection*.
He is right that if you sell the airplane the new owner has to treat
the airplane the same as if it were a spam can and have a A&P work on
it with a IA sign off. OR he can bring the airplane back to you as the
builder to do his inspections for him.
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Daniel Stevens <daniel.stevens(at)kconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting, as in picture.. |
>I recieved a letter from a Lon Lohrman of Wichita Ks that he had painted a
picture of my airplane. I would be recieving it with an invoice and
could
keep it or return it.>
Any item recieved through the mail that you did not request is yours,
free and clear. It's the law. If it is not a scam it is very bad
business at the least.
daniel.stevens(at)kconline.com
future 8 builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
Greetings,
I've been reading some stuff about having a "builder's log", documenting
my progress through the project. Is this a requirement for the
inspection? Some friends here, who completed an RV-6A said the DAR just
glanced at it..said, "that's nice"..and moved on.
If this is a "must have"?..If so, I'd better get busy jogging my memory
for the past two months!
Thanks again,
Brian Denk
-8 #379
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Lempicke <tlempicke(at)InfoAve.Net> |
| Subject: | Re: inspections and annuals |
Michael C. Lott wrote:
>
> There is a little confusion on my part about working on and signing
> off
> on work done to an experimental airplane. I was told by an I.A. that
> as
> long as the original builder owns the experimental airplane, he can do
>
> all the mechanical work and has to get an A+P to sign off the annual
> inspections.
Kinda true and kinda not true. If you are the original builder of an
airplane you can apply for a "Repairmans Operational Certificate". It
will be issued giving you the right to perform maintenance on a specific
airplane, IE: the one you built.. You will be able to do that, and sign
off, an annual "Condition Inspection". This inspection is in place of
the annual that an AI normally signs off on a factory airplane.
Without that Repairmans certificate you can not do maintenance on the
airplane without an A&P. Does this mean that you can not repair or
maintain the airplane you built without the certificate - YES.
Look in FedWorld. On the FAA database you will find an advisory
cricular (26-something) that gives all of the particulars concerning
licensing and operating homebuilts.
Tom Lempicke
Country Squire Airport
Squire Road and Falls Road
Rock Hill, S. C. 29730
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Lempicke <tlempicke(at)InfoAve.Net> |
| Subject: | Re: Builder's log |
Brian Denk wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
> I've been reading some stuff about having a "builder's log",
> documenting
> my progress through the project. Is this a requirement for the
> inspection?
Brian
The FAA is getting really touchy about people having other people build
an airplane and then presenting it as their own work. At our airport we
had two airplanes certified in the last two weeks, and the inspector
checked logbooks and pictures. The log can be pretty informal, but you
should have something to show.
Another item that will make your inspection easier is if you have the
local EAA technical counselor inspect your airplane along the way.
Having your copy of the four inspection reports that he is supposed to
do will make the inspection go a lot faster. As an added attraction, if
you work with a Tech Couselor and participate in the Flight Advisor
program, AVEMCO will cover your hull from hour one instead of making you
wait till the airplane has ten hours on it.
Tom Lempicke
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: Builder's log |
Just a note on insurance coverage. I am getting mine with AUA. They
are covering it from the first hour. They just consider the first
500.00 as earned with no refund if something happens since the airplane
has not been test flown yet. Michael.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick and Barbara Osgood <randbosgood(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Builders Log - Software |
I am building an RV6A and I also teach various computer programming at a
local college. I started working on a software program to track my own
building progress and thought others could use it as well. My program is
designed to track the following and maybe more:
* Work done by section (Tail, Wings, Fuselage, etc.) You can break these
down further also
* Expenses incurred (Tools, parts, services). You may also add to or
modify these
* Track where things were bought from, serial numbers, warranty
* Print a logbook type report by any sorting you need
* Tracks insurance info
* Tracks any tax owed the state. A sup rise at registration time if you
haven't paid....
* A maintenance and repair section is under way and also a prop log
I will be offering this to the RV-List in the near future as shareware.
Meaning you try it and if you like it you can pay me something for it. I
have not set any price yet.
I would like to ask for 5 builders to be my Beta testers.
Please e-mail me off list so we can discuss
Minimum requirements as beta tester
Windows 95
2 mb hard disk space
8 mb memory
Rick Osgood
RV6A wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: inspections and annuals |
Hi Jim,
I didn't build this airplane. Are you saying there is a way to get a
repairman's certificate for this plane, short of getting a full blown
A+P license? Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV6AQ build time |
To any RV6AQ builders-
I would appreciate any input regarding your projected build time for your
quickbuild project. Please try and factor out any time consuming
modifications you may be making. I have ordered and will be receiving my
quickbuild kit in about six weeks and at this point am not considering any
major deviations from plans as I am interested in getting up and flying
safely in as little time as possible.
Thanks in advance
Mike Kiess /RV6AQ on the way!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tools for RV-Shopsmith |
Has anyone ever used a tool called a Shopsmith as a combination drill press
and band saw in conjuction with building your RV? Did you find it adequate?
Mike Kiess/RV6AQ kit on the way!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
>>I've been reading some stuff about having a "builder's log", documentin=
g =
my progress through the project.
If this is a "must have"?..If so, I'd better get busy jogging my memory =
for the past two months!<<
Brian,
In order to certify the aircraft as "Experimental, Amature built" you nee=
d
to show that it was indeed amature built (the 51% rule). This is the nee=
d
to keep a builders log. If it is determined that it is not amature built=
the FAA can insist on another certification for the airplane. I don't kn=
ow
what they would give it, maybe experimental R&D or Exhibition. Both of
these would further restrict your use of the plane.
In addition, if you want to be the authorized repairman for your aircraft=
you will have to convince the inspector that it is your work. This is
where pictures come in. Take lots of pictures, preferably with you worki=
ng
on the aircraft. Whenever my wife, or neighbor comes by for a visit I ha=
ve
them take a few photos of me working. If no one is around, I try to
remember to take a couple shots of each assembly as I go. Detail shots c=
an
show the quality of workmanship which may be of benefit later as well. I=
n
later years it will make a nice album for reminising.
AC 20-27D is a free publication that outlines everything you need to know=
/
do.
Scott A. Jordan
80331
N733JJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 tail bearings |
You fellas dont need to worry about this setting at this point,The final
adjustment will be made after the VS is installed on your fuselage.
Fred LaForge RV-4
installing engine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Repairman's certificate |
| From: | jepilot(at)juno.com (J E REHLER) |
It is my understanding that if you build an experimental plane and get a
repairman's certificate for the plane you built, then essentially you can
do everything on you own including repairs, maintenance, modifications
and annual condition inspections and certification entry in the plane's
log book. On the other hand if you purchase an experimental plane built
by another party, then you must use an A&P for the annual inspection ; an
AI or IA ( I always reverse the correct order) is not required but, of
course, can be used instead of an A&P. But all repairs, maintenance,
etc. can be performed by you as the owner of an experimental plane
whether you built it or not. Only the annual inspection requires the
government licensed individual to act for an experimental plane owned by
a non-builder. J. E. Rehler RV6A flying Corpus Christi, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | inspections and annuals |
If Michael isn't the primary builder of the aircraft that he is getting
certified, then according to AC 20-27D, Paragraph 16, he would not be eligible
for a Repairman Certificate.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ
Hi Jim,
I didn't build this airplane. Are you saying there is a way to get a
repairman's certificate for this plane, short of getting a full blown
A+P license? Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <glenn(at)chocolatetruffles.com> |
Hi,
Does Imron require a special primer?
If not, how well does it adhere to the following primers?
1. Sherwin Williams Wash Primer
2. Marhyde
3. Regual Zinc Cromate Primer
Thanks in advance,
Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cn755(at)freenet.carleton.ca (Cathy Lamport) |
| Subject: | Re: Builder's log |
>
>
>Greetings,
>
>I've been reading some stuff about having a "builder's log", documenting
>my progress through the project. Is this a requirement for the
>inspection? Some friends here, who completed an RV-6A said the DAR just
>glanced at it..said, "that's nice"..and moved on.
One good reason for having a log book:
We had a fellow builder who had placed his nearly completed airplane outside
his home. During the night kids came along and torched it. The insurance
company paid him for his building hours based on his log book. Get writing!
Dale and Cathy Lamport
Nepean, Ontario, Canada
RV6A (hopefully flying in Spring)
C-GLRV (reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Luker, Michael G." <luker.michael(at)mayo.edu> |
| Subject: | Fitting the cowling. |
awhile back I read were someone was asking about the bottom cowl piano
hinge cracking. My flying RV6A had this problem I corrected it 3 times.
Finally I removed the hinge and replaced it with a flat piece of
Aluminum and nutplates. If I were to do it all over again, I would go
with Stainless steal piano hinges throughout the whole cowl. If your at
this stage and are considering what to do. I think this would be the
neatest, strongest, easy to remove and simplest way to set up your cowl.
Something I did different than the plans, was when I fit the piano hinge
I put a solid AN 3/32 second rivets every 1/2 inch. I just don't like
those pop rivets! Just an idea. If someone is looking for a source on
Stainless steal I know of a couple. If someone knows many sources they
might consider posting it. Still waiting for my 245 mph prop.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <James.E.Clark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6AQ build time |
This is truly a case of "your mileage may vary, just as any building.
I have no prior experience in this and FAR LESS time than even when I
started, so ...
I will probably take about as long as an "average" builder would from
scratch (3-5 years??). I am beginning to call it the "FLY2K" project ..
hoping to finish by Year 2000.
There are some with more skill (I am sure) and more time (I suspect) that
will probably finish in 1-1.5 years. (Captain Lewis is probably right
around the corner if not airborne already).
The QB ***DOES*** save significant time for two types of builders in my
mind:
1. Newbie ... otherwise the headscratch may cause it to never get finished.
2. Repeat offender ... they know what the "intent" is even if it is not so
clear from the the instructions and can blast through to a MUCH quicker
completion.
I think Van's says ut saves ~ 1000 HOURS. I know that for me it saves MUCH
MORE.
As you have obviously concluded ... a really good value if you can swing
the big check.
James
Will I *ever* close these wings????
RV6AQ
>
> To any RV6AQ builders-
>
> I would appreciate any input regarding your projected build time for
your
> quickbuild project.
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| From: | H Sutphin <hsutphin(at)magicnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tools for RV-Shopsmith |
Mike,
I have used my Shopsmith for the RV, and so far it has been fine. The
drill press works as good as any for this purpose and the bandsaw has
been fine for most of my aluminum cutting. I use the drill press with a
flycutter to cut lightening holes (BPP - before pre-punch). The disk
sander and table saw have also been used. I use my bandsaw for many
projects and elected to put it on it's own power stand. If you have any
other specific questions email me direct.
Harold
RV-6A //Wing kit// A&P
> Has anyone ever used a tool called a Shopsmith as a combination drill press
> and band saw in conjuction with building your RV? Did you find it adequate?
>
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| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 tail bearings |
hotmail.com!akroguy(at)matronics.com wrote:
> Just finishing up the tail surfaces, and can't seem to find any info on
> how far to seat the rod end bearings in the rudder spar. The elevator
> bearings are specified to be 13/16" from the spar the center of the
> bearing hole. NOT EVEN CLOSE! The elevator leading edge rubs against the
> stabilizer spar this way, so, I turned them out two and a half turns. Is
> this too much?
I'm hanging the elevators on my -6. Firstly, I set up my rod-end
bearings to 13/16". I didn't have any problem with rubbing. However, in
the plans it says to radius the stiffeners if necessary to get
clearance. Secondly, it gives a spar-spar distance of 2 1/4" inches for
the elevator. That comes to about 1 5/8" inches between the rivet lines
on the skin.
OTOH, my counterbalances interfered with the rear edge of the HS tab
where the tips attach. I've trimmed about 1/8" off the skins to get
clearance, and intend taking another 1/8" off.
> The rudder bearings...the top two are, I think, setup the same..but the
> bottom bearing...just a bit different. Does anybody have any
> measurements that worked out well for them that I can start with?
On the -6, the plans give 2" spar-spar at the top, 2 1/2" at the bottom.
> I'm not hinging them
> permanently, just checking for fit..while I start grinding away on the
> fiberglass tips.
I'd hinge them permanently, then make the tips fit, rather than vice
versa. Any slight rearrangement of the hinge line will mean your tips
won't fit properly any more.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 tail bearings |
compuserve.com!SAJ_SLJ(at)matronics.com wrote:
> The final fit came out nice in all cases. This does require several
> mounting and removals of the surfaces but after a little practice it gets
> easier to get the bolts in! Vans suggests using inexpensive hardware store
> bolts during the fitting process to avoid marking up the expensive AN
> hardware.
I made some hinge alignment pins... take some long (over 3" long, 5" or
6" would be best) 3/16" machine screws or rod and bend them at
right-angles, and 3/4" from the end. Round off the ends with a file.
These are then very easy to insert into the bearings. A 1/4" bolt is
used through the centre bearing of the HS & elevator horn.
> You will notice that downward travel of the elevator is restricted by the
> control horn hitting the HS spar flange. This flange will be cut away
> during rigging to achieve the proper travel.
The "handles" of the hinge pins protrude through the elevator skin
cutouts. For this reason, put the pins in from the bottom if you're
intending moving the elevator.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 tail bearings |
aol.com!Vanremog(at)matronics.com wrote:
> << The rudder bearings...the top two are, I think, setup the same..but the
> bottom bearing...just a bit different. Does anybody have any
> measurements that worked out well for them that I can start with? >>
>
> If your spars are perfectly straight, just trig it out.
>
> If not, you will have to adjust empirically.
You'll need to line them up by Mk1 Eyeball.
Get two about right, then sight through the three rod-ends to ensure
that all three are lines up properly.
Frank.
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| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
To all,
Thanks so much for your input! Looks like I need to start brainstorming
and get a log together. I'll do it on the PC...type much faster than a I
rig....wwwrii....uh...WRITE!
I have been taking pictures..at least I have that part covered. As far
as interim inspections..I have an A&P/IA friend who looks over my work.
Our local EAA chapter isn't much to get excited about...am not expecting
much assistance from them. But...I'll look into it for insurance
purposes anyway.
Happy trails pardners...(to the tune of Tumbling Tumbleweeds)
Brian "I'll get this figured out someday!" Denk
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Solana" <solanas(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | "EXPERIMENTAL" sign location |
Has anyone with an RV-6/6A put the required "EXPERIMENTAL" sign on the top of
their aft bulkead? Is this an acceptable location? Is there another polpular
plane
Rick Solana, 804RS
September 14, 1997 - September 21, 1997
RV-Archive.digest.vol-dj