RV-Archive.digest.vol-dk
September 21, 1997 - October 01, 1997
canopy is finished!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Mixture Control Cable |
From: | gasobek(at)juno.com (Gary A. Sobek) |
><< Any suggestions out there as to how to make a good safe hookup on the
> mixture lever with a 10-32 threaded end cable. >>
I installed a bushing in mine and used the standard 3/16" AN hardware
(AN3) with a rod end from Van's. Works great. I did need to remove a
little from the outside of the large area washer to get full travel.
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 20480 N157GS
O-320 CS MA4-SPA
FAA A & P
EAA Tech Counselor
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Need Advice On Wing Jacks Or Other Tire Changer Method |
From: | gasobek(at)juno.com (Gary A. Sobek) |
writes:
>
>Scott;
>Why not keep it simple and use a small stainless hose clamp put around
the
>lowest part of the gear ...snip... This has always worked great for me
on my
>RV-4, I would assume it would work on the sixes also....snip...
>Von Alexander
>N107RV RV-4
It works on my -6. A clamp used for attaching a ground wire to a water
pipe also works. I have even pick up both wings using my back under the
spar outboard from the wing tie down point. Works well for 15 GAL fuel
on board but too heavy for me with full fuel. I can lift it high enough
for a helper to place a 4 X 4 block under the tire. It did not damage
the skin or make the airplane fly funny. It has flown twice since
attempting to pick up with full fuel.
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 20480 N157GS
FAA A & P
EAA Tech Counselor
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Warren/MK Bishop" <wemkbish(at)nponline.net> |
Subject: | Burlington Fly in |
A BIG THANK YOU to all who helped put on the Burlington Fly-in this
week-end. It was a GREAT time, even though some canceled at last minute
due to the Wx. We met many new friends, learned lots of helpful stuff in
building and are looking forward to the day our -6 is flying.
Thanks again, John Stewart, and all those who helped. I know we are
looking forward to next year's event.
Warren Bishop
RV-6 engine details.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Martin W. Sailer Jr." <mwsailer(at)erols.com> |
I sent a fax to Van's two weeks ago for an update to my manual. As a
side note asked if elevator skins (E 601 PP) were available in .020 for
the 6-6A, after reading the post by Rick Smith. Tom responded that they
are available in .020 but did not give a price. Before the reply I
purchased a sheet of .020 and will be making my own this winter
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: "EXPERIMENTAL" sign location |
I put my "EXPERIMENTAL" sign on the baggage compartment aft bulkhead. I had
no problem with the FAA about the location.
Jim Cone
RV6A flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Builder's log |
My FAA inspector looked at every page of my builders log and spent nearly 30
minutes examining the entries. I had a photo album with hundreds of pictures
of the construction including some with me in them with a big smile. He
wasn't very interested in the album. Bottom line: keep a good log of the
owrk that you do. The regs require it. They don't require a photo album.
Jim Cone
RV-6A flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Michael Irwin" <pcpms(at)leadbelt.com> |
One day 4 hours and 22 minutes ago I was in the middle of a hesitation roll
looking down at the ground through the bubble canopy of Van's yellow -8,
N58RV. Most people would think I'm nut's for leaving at 3:30 am and
getting back at midnight and driving more than 700 miles for a 15 minute
ride, but I know the rest of you out there understand. I've been reliving
every minute of that fifteen minute ride ever since. Somehow, I'm going to
have to focus on my work so I can afford this new addiction.
Michael Irwin
Planning budget and tools for an -8
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
Late September and not too many good days left if you need to paint
outside, so I drafted two of my neighbors to help me get the fuselage out
of the basement. They don't know diddly about a/c and that is OK, but I
still wasn't prepared when one asked if I was building a canoe and the
other asked in all seriousness which end was the front. I really didn't
think my work was that bad. I was then asked if it was going to be a jet
and how many engines was I going to put on it. Also, could I fly in the fog
? I said "hell yes, I'm in a fog most of the time". First guy thought it
was damn big for a model until I told him you could sit in it. He thereupon
wanted to know if it could make it to Florida in one go. I again said "hell
yes" not telling him it would first have to be sent air cargo by United
Airlines. I am not lying, these are all actual questions. They didn't seem
at all concerned about what appeared to be dark blood spots on the sleeve
of my shirt, figuring I guess that when you work with metal this sort of
thing can happen. It is actually paint from the rudder so now I have a good
color match when I need to get more. My wife had her nose out of joint just
a bit when she saw some pro-seal on the washing machine until I told her
that it may not look as nice and white anymore but that sucker will never
leak. Seemed OK then. All is not despair however as I have discovered
that the paint I did buy was as good as the salesman said it was because
two cats promptly pissed on my wings and they stood up as good as you
please. I will be moving to the airport soon, but I think I will put the
a/c on a flat bed to transport it. Unlike a friend of mine who towed the
fuselage behind a pickup and then found to his joy and heartbreak that the
a/c truly was aerobatic as it twisted on the tow and rolled continuously
for 1/4 mile. That is how I got this great engine that only has all the
cooling fins mashed off it. Got to go now as I must try to get overspray
off the car's windshield before the wife picks up on why the wipers sound
like scraping sandpaper......Austin.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | caummisa(at)arn.net |
Subject: | Re: Builder's log |
Did you mean to say Advisory Circular AC 20-23?
I see that the title of AC 20-27 is "Airworthiness Standards:
Normal Category Rotorcraft" Is 27D related to SE Airplane?
Or did I miss the target altogether?
This is a genuine quest for knowledge --- NOT A FLAME! : )
>AC 20-27D is a free publication that outlines everything you need to know /
>do.
>
>Scott A. Jordan
>80331
>N733JJ
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Wndwlkr711(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Antennas for RVs |
I'm at that point that I will need to decide where the antenna will go.
Count me in for the info.
G. Stanley-Desert Center
RV-6A wings in jigs
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "James G. Tennison" <tennison(at)west.net> |
Alan,
The wing loads are generally limited by wing-root bending moment and =
shear load on the spar. Any wing mass located from the root outboard, =
will tend to relieve wing root bending moment for most positve "g" =
manuevers. Even the wing weight itself helps to reduce root bending =
moments. To get the details on the effect of wing fuel on the wing root =
bending and spar shear load distribution we would need to rely on Van or =
one of our more savy structural oriented engineers out there. I can =
only present you with a back of the=20
envelope equation for an aircraft undergoing 1-g flight or a symmetric =
pull-up (ie no roll rate):
Bending Moment at the Wing Root:
BMroot =3D g x ( 0.5 x Wac x 0.333 x 0.5 x b -=20
0.5 x Wfuel x yfuel -=09
Wwing x 0.5 x 0.5 x b )
Wing Root Shear Load:
Root Shear =3D 0.5 x g x (Wac - Wfuel - Wwing)=20
where,
g =3D (normal acceleration)/(acceleration due
to gravity)
b =3D wing span [feet]
Wac =3D Weight of aircraft [pounds]
Wfuel =3D Weight of fuel (assuming equal left and
right tanks)
Wwing =3D Wing weight [pounds]
yfuel =3D distance from root to the center-of-gravity
of fuel [feet]
Distances in feet and weights in pounds. We're concentrating on the =
right wing.=20
The above equations contains some simplifying assumptions such as, Lift
=
acts at one-third wing semi-span and wing weight acts at the mid =
semi-span. =20
Lift
root / \
attach |
| |
Wing root -> =
))=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D! - Wing tip
|--yfuel-->| |
| | |=20
\ / \ /
Wfuel Wwing
My main point here is that both the wing weight and the fuel weight are =
subtracted from
lift loads in the root bending moment equation. This means they releive =
the maneuvering bending moment at the root spar attach point. This is =
usually the spar's design load point.
You structues guys can chime in now. Am I missing anything important?
Hope this is illustrative.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
Subject: | Re: inspections and annuals |
>Michael C. Lott wrote:
>>
>>
>> There is a little confusion on my part about working on and signing off
>> on work done to an experimental airplane. I was told by an I.A. that as
>> long as the original builder owns the experimental airplane, he can do
>> all the mechanical work and has to get an A+P to sign off the annual
>> inspections.
>
>Michael
>The IA is wrong about having to have a A&P sign off
>annuals. If you are the owner builder and get a repairman certificate
>from the FAA for your airplane you can do all the work and inspections
>yourself. On a experimental it is called a Condition Inspection*.
>He is right that if you sell the airplane the new owner has to treat
>the airplane the same as if it were a spam can and have a A&P work on
>it with a IA sign off. OR he can bring the airplane back to you as the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jerry,
... not quite right! A mechanic with an A&P rating is sufficient
for an experimental ... NO IA signature is needed.
Gil
(I sign off my Experimental - Exhibition & Racing - sailplane with
an "A" rating)
Alexander
>builder to do his inspections for him.
>
>Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
>jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
-------------------------------------------------------
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: inspections and annuals-NO |
NO, No, NO,---If you are an amateur builder and build a RV or whatever (51%)
you the builder can do all maintenance, repairs, modifications etc without
any approval or signoff from anyone but yourself. Of course you should apply
for the Repairman Cert. for your airplane. Oh, by the way, experimentals do
not get Annual Inspections ---they get a Condition Inspection which is done
by you the builder with your Repairman Cert. the only auth. you need. Tell
your A&P--IA he is mistaken. Rest of what he told you was correct if I
understood. Oh no, here we go.Jim A&P.RV4and Kfox.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | tmoradia(at)ix.netcom.com |
Subject: | log book software |
Sorry everyone,
Rick Osgood:
Could you please list your e-mail address. I am interested in the beta test
for you software.
Tony Moradian
RV-8 empenage
N100TM reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: inspections and annuals |
Michael, I am afraid that you must be the builder of record to apply for R.
Certificate. Maybe the builder of the airplane you know own will get it or if
already has it will keep it. He can then do the signoffs for you if he is
willing. Otherwise I fear you must find a friendly A&P who will work with
you. Many A&P not know much about Exp. and may be relunctant to work on one .
Many as you have discovvered do not know the Regs regarding. Of course you
can do many types of Prev. Main .just like any AC owner can legally do.Jim.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Builder's log |
>
>
>My FAA inspector looked at every page of my builders log and spent
nearly 30
>minutes examining the entries. I had a photo album with hundreds of
pictures
>of the construction including some with me in them with a big smile.
He
>wasn't very interested in the album. Bottom line: keep a good log of
the
>owrk that you do. The regs require it. They don't require a photo
album.
>
>Jim Cone
>RV-6A flying
>
>
>
>OK Jim, now here's the tricky question:
Just how MUCH info do they need to see? So far, I've been going over my
last two months of work..not real hard, since I work on the plane the
same days each week. A typical entry might read: "...Drilled, deburred
and clecoed HS rear spar to reinforcement bars. Trued rib flanges and
fluted as required. Primered all HS components."
Is this sufficient? Do they need to see every painstaking detail fully
elaborated upon?! I'm not here to write a novel..just build an RV! But,
I can "lay it on thick" if I have to :) So far, I'm getting some
wide-ranging inputs on this issue. Perhaps getting a DAR lined up
waaaaaay ahead of time...and going along with his/her needs? I sure
wish the whole inspection fiasco was outlined in black and white...like
the practical test standards...if it ain't written...ya don't have to do
it! Seems like too much of a "who ya know, not WHAT you know" that
matters here. Gawd, I just LOVE the feds....*smirk*
Thanks for everybody's help! With every bit of knowledge I gain from
you...yet more questions arise...bear with me..gonna be a looong
road...but what a great destination...;)
Brian Denk
"If Orv and Wilbur had to deal with this..we'd still be just dreamin"
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Builder's log |
<< We had a fellow builder who had placed his nearly completed airplane
outside
his home. During the night kids came along and torched it. >>
Yet another good argument for birth control.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net> |
Bundy did you send me e-mail? Please repond off the
list to mcomeaux(at)cmc.net.
regards---mike Comeaux
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Like they say that free ride is the most expensive one you will
ever take:)
Michael Irwin wrote:
>
>
> One day 4 hours and 22 minutes ago I was in the middle of a hesitation roll
> looking down at the ground through the bubble canopy of Van's yellow -8,
> N58RV. Most people would think I'm nut's for leaving at 3:30 am and
> getting back at midnight and driving more than 700 miles for a 15 minute
> ride, but I know the rest of you out there understand. I've been reliving
> every minute of that fifteen minute ride ever since. Somehow, I'm going to
> have to focus on my work so I can afford this new addiction.
>
> Michael Irwin
> Planning budget and tools for an -8
>
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | Re: inspections and annuals |
Gil Alexander wrote:
>
> >Michael
> >The IA is wrong about having to have a A&P sign off
> >annuals. If you are the owner builder and get a repairman certificate
> >from the FAA for your airplane you can do all the work and inspections
> >yourself. On a experimental it is called a Condition Inspection*.
> >He is right that if you sell the airplane the new owner has to treat
> >the airplane the same as if it were a spam can and have a A&P work on
> >it with a IA sign off. OR he can bring the airplane back to you.....
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Jerry,
> ... not quite right! A mechanic with an A&P rating is sufficient
> for an experimental ... NO IA signature is needed.
>
Learn something new every day:)
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Steve Cole <cole(at)iei.net> |
Subject: | pitot tubing prime? |
Should I prime the 1/4" AL pitot lines that run through the wing, after all it
is AL not an alloy.
Steve Cole
RV-6 Skinning Left Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Alexgerry(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Fuel and Wing Moments |
Regarding the discussion of how fuel affects wing bending moments, the writer
is correct that fuel in the wing tip tanks on the C310 tend to unload bending
moments. However, the same is not true in the RV's. The reason that the
310's tip tanks unload moment is because they are outboard of the spanwise
center of lift of their respective wing panel. The center of mass of the RV
wing tank is clearly inboard of the spanwise center of lift of its respective
wing panel, and hence does increase wing bending moment. However, it adds
less moment than if the entire fuel load were in the center of the fuselage.
Alex Peterson 6A fuse.
alexgerry(at)aol.com (hopefully soon not on AOL)
Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Builder's log |
<34251F18.3D45DD68(at)datastar.net>
Mike, regarding your coverage with AUA. I did not understand the part of
your post on the $500 earned and not refundable if something happens. Can
you amplify on this?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
Subject: | inspections and annuals |
charset="iso-8859-1"
As far as I know, the builder is the only one who qualifies for the
certificate.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
<<.......I didn't build this airplane. Are you saying there is
a way to get a
repairman's certificate for this plane, short of getting a full
blown
A+P license? ......>>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | catbird(at)taylortel.com (TTC Carroll A. Bird) |
Subject: | Re: Tools for RV-Shopsmith |
aol.com!MKswing(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
> Has anyone ever used a tool called a Shopsmith as a combination drill press
> and band saw in conjuction with building your RV? Did you find it adequate?
>
I have completed an RV-4 airframe and the only drillpress I have
used is a Shopsmith that I bought in 1956. It has been rebuilt a few
times.
Carroll Bird Buffalo Gap TX
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | CHRIS.BROWNE(at)bge.com |
Subject: | Octane reduction |
One builder I have spoken with chose a 150HP O-320 because of the
possibility that 100/100LL will eventually go away. The scuttlebutt
is that the fuel industry can't get to 100 without lead, and the EPA
enviro-nazis are convinced that the lead in high octane airplane
exhaust is destroying mother earth.
I think that avgas is the only lead exemption left. Anyone else heard
this? If true, it will sure make alot of aircraft engines worthless
without expensive modifications to lower the CR and horsepower.
Chris Browne
RV6A Pre-view
Empennage as soon as I reassemble the boat engine...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Keith Warfield <kpwarfield(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: Elevator Skins |
Martin W. Sailer Jr. wrote:
Tom responded that they are available in .020 but did not give a price.
>
Checked my two year old parts list, .016 elevator skins were $38.00 and rudder
was
$31.00. Looks like a 4X10 foot sheet of 2024 T3 alclad is approx. $100.00 from
Airparts Inc. Anyone know of a lower cost source for alclad?
Keith Warfield
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Alan Carroll <carroll(at)geology.wisc.edu> |
Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics |
Jim - thanks; makes sense to me. As I understand your explanation, the
fuel does put a shear load on the spar outboard of the fuel's center of
mass, but the root bending load is the critical one?
Looking at my RV-8 spar and carrythrough, I can't help but be impressed by
how little of the spar actually mates with the carrythrough structure, and
how few bolts are carrying the load. Must be a pretty impressive bending
moment! When they do destructive static testing, is the wing root
generally were the failure occurs? (Van's RVator article was didn't really
say anything about failure mode, other than it was "as expected")
>
>
>Alan,
>
>The wing loads are generally limited by wing-root bending moment and shear
>load on the spar. Any wing mass located from the root outboard, will tend
>to relieve wing root bending moment for most positve "g" manuevers. Even
>the wing weight itself helps to reduce root bending moments. To get the
>details on the effect of wing fuel on the wing root bending and spar shear
>load distribution we would need to rely on Van or one of our more savy
>structural oriented engineers out there. I can only present you with a
>back of the
>envelope equation for an aircraft undergoing 1-g flight or a symmetric
>pull-up (ie no roll rate):
Alan Carroll
RV-8 #80177 (Wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken Berndt <kberndt(at)badlands.nodak.edu> |
Subject: | Re: Octane reduction |
>
>
>
>
>
>
> One builder I have spoken with chose a 150HP O-320 because of the
> possibility that 100/100LL will eventually go away. The scuttlebutt
>
> RV6A Pre-view
> Empennage as soon as I reassemble the boat engine...
>
> Mr. Browne, I'm not sure that any of your message has any merit. Yes,
one can attain 100 octane without lead. But more importantly your attitude
toward the EPA offends me and I'm sure many others. Name calling has no
place on this site.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Builder's log |
From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
>Just how MUCH info do they need to see? So far, I've been going over my
>last two months of work..not real hard, since I work on the plane the
>same days each week. A typical entry might read: "...Drilled, deburred
>and clecoed HS rear spar to reinforcement bars. Trued rib flanges and
>fluted as required. Primered all HS components."
>Is this sufficient?
Everyone that I know has had slightly different scenarios. The FAA
inspector that did my airplane spent about 30mins going over the airplane
with special emphasis on controls, rod end bearings/connections, and the
engine/prop. The only thing that irked me was when he made me take off
the spinner and front plate to verify the #'s with the logbook. No big
deal, I just would have liked to know ahead of time and it would have
been ready.
My documentation consisted of a photo album with about 100 pix (he spent
about 5 mins on that) and about 10 pages of written info that consisted
of: date, time spent, and the assembly. A sample entry might be: 10/27
2.4 fuselage skinning. He spent about 10 mins on that, filled out the
paperwork, read me the limitation word for word, congratulated me, then
left. Almost a pleasant experience.
Your mileage may vary,
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rick_Smith(at)brahms2.tivoli.com |
Subject: | Re: Elevator Skins |
The RV-8 elevator skins are identical to the RV-6 skins elevator skins
except for the thickness. Add the suffix ".020 " to the part number of the
RV-6 elevator skin. They are approximately $58.00 each and are prepunched,
trailing edge folded etc. The punched hole pattern is the same as the
spar.
-6 Rick,
Working on -6A
worldnet.att.net!kpwarfield(at)matronics.com on 09/22/97 08:56:11 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Elevator Skins
Martin W. Sailer Jr. wrote:
Tom responded that they are available in .020 but did not give a price.
>
Checked my two year old parts list, .016 elevator skins were $38.00 and
rudder was $31.00. Looks like a 4X10 foot sheet of 2024 T3 alclad is
approx. $100.00 from Airparts Inc. Anyone know of a lower cost source for
alclad?
Keith Warfield
RV-6A
|
|
"rv-list-request(at)matronics.com" | | & put the word "[un]subscribe" in the
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bumflyer(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Builder's log |
I think everyone is making too much of the builders log. Have never heard of
anyone being flunked for a missing or inadequate log! I did this research a
long time ago but had my inspection only a few months ago. Therefore I can't
quote chapter and verse but here is the essence of my conclusions:
While a builders log is technically required there are no guidelines or
minimums. My conclusion was the builders log was something the inspector
used, among other things (e. g. presence of tools and general knowledge of
construction details) to assure himself the applicant was indeed the builder.
If they are satisfied through the conversation and actual airframe
inspection, they may well not look at either the log or pictures. Mine did
not. On the other hand he could obviously tell by my demeanor that I had
created this baby. In my early years, the Tech counselor didn't leave me a
copy of his inspection report so the log served this very important function
also ... A place to record the inspection (and other builder visits)
My log is a spiral notebook, handwritten, usually sporadic and frequently
filled in at the end of the month in very general terms. Nonetheless it is a
truthful diary of my efforts and would have certainly served as legal
evidence if needed.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Repairman's certificate |
<<
It is my understanding that if you build an experimental plane and get a
repairman's certificate for the plane you built, then essentially you can
do everything on you own including repairs, maintenance, modifications
and annual condition inspections and certification entry in the plane's
log book. On the other hand if you purchase an experimental plane built
by another party, then you must use an A&P for the annual inspection ; an
AI or IA ( I always reverse the correct order) is not required but, of
course, can be used instead of an A&P. But all repairs, maintenance,
etc. can be performed by you as the owner of an experimental plane
whether you built it or not. Only the annual inspection requires the
government licensed individual to act for an experimental plane owned by
a non-builder. J. E. Rehler RV6A flying Corpus Christi, Texas
>>
That is correct,
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | CHRIS.BROWNE(at)bge.com |
Subject: | Octane reduction |
______________________________ Reply Separator ____________________________
_____
Subject: Re: RV-List: Octane reduction
Date: 9/22/97 10:07 AM
> Mr. Browne, I'm not sure that any of your message has any merit.
Yes, one
can attain 100 octane without lead. But more importantly your attitude
toward the EPA offends me and I'm sure many others. Name calling has no
place on this site.
My apologies if I offended your sensitivities about the EPA. I agree
that it
was out of line. While it was merely sarcasm, I regret posting it that
way.
Chris Browne
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
>
>I must question the 2G statement.
Well, that's what the "G" meter records - and my "seat of the pants" G meter
agrees....
Richard E. Bibb
RV-4 N144KT
Oak Hill, VA
rbibb(at)fore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com> |
Subject: | Re: Builder's log |
For the record, I never had a builder's log. Did stick a number of pictures
in an album the night before my inspection as well a notebook full of
invoices that showed I bought everything. My DAR signed me off OK and I've
got 35 hours on since July 25. I would rate my DAR as homebuilt
knowledgable and very thorough on things that matter (like construction
technique/quality) and not on things that don't effect safety (like paint
orange peel).
My 2 cents.
BTW - I think the EPA is being over zealous on the lead issue, too. But I
don't want to start a political flame war - Glad I've got a low compression
engine.
Richard E. Bibb
RV-4 N144KT
Oak Hill, VA
rbibb(at)fore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Octane reduction |
<< . But more importantly your attitude
toward the EPA offends me and I'm sure many others. Name calling has no
place on this site. >>
Lighten up there Ken.......sounds like you must be one of the [Pardon me]
enviroNazi's
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil> |
Subject: | Re: Octane reduction |
Ken,
Take it easy there! While the "enviro-nazi" label may have been over the
top, Chris Browne's comments were not totally without merit. How do you
explain a system in which the little guy gets targeted (in this case Gen.
Av.) and yet the big oil companies can "buy environmental credits" by
crushing old cars? As with any large bureacracy, EPA can tend to get a
little over zealous in one particular arena, and miss the big picture. Do
you really believe that Gen. Av. is as signficant in contributing to the
pollution problem as the airline industry (or any other large business with
significant lobby power)? Can you provide numbers to prove it?
On a related subject, can one of you engine guys out there tell us if
current aircraft engines will suffer the same fate as early car engines did,
if and when lead is no longer used in Avgas (i.e. valve wear problems)? If
the valve/seats in your $20,000 lycoming wear out prematurely due to EPA
mandate is EPA going to pick up the repair bill?
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
But more importantly your attitude
>toward the EPA offends me and I'm sure many others. Name calling has no
>place on this site.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough) |
Subject: | Re: "EXPERIMENTAL" sign location |
Just for the Canadians.....
I was told to REMOVE the word experimental from my '6A.
We don't have an experimental category..
Ken RV6A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | CHRIS.BROWNE(at)bge.com |
Subject: | Octane reduction question, reposted and corrected ... |
At least one builder I have spoken to chose a 150HP O-320 because of
the possibility that 100/100LL will eventually go away. The
scuttlebutt is that the fuel industry can't get to 100 without lead
while maintaining the fuel performance specifications for certified AC
engines which are much different from (if not stricter than?) auto
gas. I think that avgas is the only lead exemption left.
If true, it will sure make alot of aircraft engines worthless without
expensive modifications to lower the CR and horsepower. If it is
false, than I imagine it will simply result in more expensive fuel as
the refiners recoup the R&D costs needed to recertify their fuel and
I'll charge ahead and save for a brand new O-360 from Van.
Chris Browne
RV6A Pre-view
Empennage as soon as I reassemble the boat engine...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: pitot tubing prime? |
<< Should I prime the 1/4" AL pitot lines that run through the wing, after
all it is AL not an alloy. >>
Not necessary IMO, but what makes you think it's not an alloy? 1100 is pure
aluminum. The rolled stuff is generally 3003-0 (aluminum and manganese
alloy) and the straight stuff is 5052-0 (aluminum and magnesium alloy), both
for use in low to medium pressure fuel and oil lines.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Power of the List |
For you non-believers who don't appreciate the impact the RV-List can
have on your project.. more evidence. For the past year and a half I've
drilled thousands of holes always missing my fingers. That is until the
recent discussion of finger drilling techniques. In the past week I've
mangaged to drill both a #31 and a #41 hole in two fingers. Consistant
with the rest of my craftsmanship, they're off center.
What I really need to know is: can I prime directly over the dried blood
or do I need to Scotchbrite it first?
--
Greg Young
Citabria N90AV
RV-6 s/n 23070 skinning (literally) fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rick and Barbara Osgood <randbosgood(at)sprintmail.com> |
Subject: | Builders Software Program |
Thanks to all who contacted me regrading testing my software program. I
will contact each one soon.
After I and my new Beta brains help me shake out the bugs I will ask
Matt to post it for download to all.
Should be avaialble for download soon
Rick Osgood
RV6A Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Hamilton McClymont <hammcc(at)istar.ca> |
Subject: | Re: "EXPERIMENTAL" sign location |
> I was told to REMOVE the word experimental from my '6A.
>
Ken:
It was on my first trip to Oshkosh that I noticed that the US homebuilts
were "EXPERIMENTAL" while the Canadians had legal documents that said
something like "Operating without a Certificate of Airworthiness". Then
I remembered the founding principles. On the one hand is "liberty", on
the other is "peace, order and good government" Kind of says it all,
eh?
Cheers,
Hammy [CYVR]
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | CHRIS.BROWNE(at)bge.com |
Subject: | Octane reduction |
Mike,
I'm an auto gearhead, but I can tell you that the elimination of lead
in auto fuel was felt most by the valve seats and, to some extent, the
cylinder heads and pistons suffered as detonation became common, even
"normal". The "fix" was hardened seats, lower CRs, and lower octane
ratings, but I'm sure that Lyc and the rest of the industry can stay
ahead of that, if they're not already. But that doesn't help the
current crop of AC engines. In a car engine, the bearings, cylinder
walls, and valve train are adequately lubed by the engine's
pressurized oil system. There are just so few, if any, additives that
suppress pre-ignition as well as lead yet are so benign, even
beneficial, to the engine. While lead provides some incidental
lubrication to the cylinder walls and valves, most, maybe all, of the
octane boosters today provide no such benefit. Moreover, they can
have some seriously negative effects on fuel and intake system
corrosion, rubber parts, etc, at the higher concentrations necessary
to boost octane to 100. Not to mention the increase in exhaust
emissions.... Certainly, refineries can't just dump ANY chemical
additive they want into aviation fuel. It would violate ... er ... um
... uh ... government regulations!
You are in a bit of a fix with a high CR engine with such critical
reliability requirements. Americans are inventive, and I'm sure,
eventually, the petrochemical industry will find something, the
engine manufacturers will adjust, but at what price and, even more
crucially, what overall benefit.
Chris Browne - still feeling sheepish...
P.S. - Rhetorical to be sure, but if the EPA buys you a TOH, they'll
go into your wallet and mine to get the money. What a country.
______________________________ Reply Separator ____________________________
_____
Subject: Re: RV-List: Octane reduction
Date: 9/22/97 11:14 AM
On a related subject, can one of you engine guys out there tell us if
current aircraft engines will suffer the same fate as early car engines did
... If the valve/seats in your $20,000 lycoming wear out prematurely due to
EPA mandate is EPA going to pick up the repair bill?
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com> |
Subject: | RV builders in W.N.Y. & Southern Ontario |
Hi Everyone,
My girl & I will be leaving sunny South Florida for a week vacation in
Western New York & Southern Ontario next month (10/3/97 to 10/11/97). We
will be enjoying seeing the foliage change color. I would enjoy this
even more if there happened to be an RV under the trees I will be
admiring! :-)
If anyone would be willing to show me their project or completed plane,
I would love to see it!(Except 10/5 I'll be at the Bills-Lions football
game) Contact me directly at charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com
Charlie Kuss
swimming back upstream, but I'm all done spawning!!!
Boca Raton, Fl.
RV-8 empannage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Subject: | Re: "EXPERIMENTAL" sign location |
The FAA wording ("...near each entrance...") is vague enough that you
can probably put your EXPERIMENTAL placard anywhere you want. I have
seen them on the front of the rollover structure, the back of the
baggage cpt, on the outside below the canopy rail, and even stitched
into the upholstery. Of course that doesn't mean you won't get some
inspector that has a thing about the location of the EXPERIMENTAL
placard. But you could drive yourself nuts trying to outguess them
on those sorts of things.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | New RV-6 Cowl - no swaps |
Bummer news on cowls (I asked Van's if I could swap for the new
epoxy cowl)...
------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 12:32:40 -0400
From: Vangrunsven <76455.1602(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: New Cowl
Van has stated that he will NOT be taking old cowls back. His intentions
are to convert over entirely to the epoxy cowl as of now.
Tom
------------------------------------
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or
timrv6a(at)iname.com
------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
Subject: | Re: Power of the List |
----------
> From: Greg Young <cs-sol.com!gyoung(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Power of the List
> What I really need to know is: can I prime directly over the dried blood
> or do I need to Scotchbrite it first?
> Greg Young
BY all means you must Scotchbrite it first since red tends to "bleed" thru.
(har har, pun intended).
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
Subject: | Re: Power of the List |
----------
> From: Greg Young <cs-sol.com!gyoung(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Power of the List
> What I really need to know is: can I prime directly over the dried blood
> or do I need to Scotchbrite it first?
> Greg Young
BY all means you must Scotchbrite it first since red tends to "bleed" thru.
(har har, pun intended).
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Repairman's certificate |
From: | tcastella(at)juno.com (Anthony J Castellano) |
This is correct. I have the following first hand experience.
Having built a Sonerai several years ago for which I hold a repairman
certificate and having bought a Bede 4,
It was necessary for me to understand the regulations as they apply to
both situations.
I perform all the maintenance on both aircraft and perform the condition
inspection on the Sonerai only.
I enlist a A&P mechanic to perform the condition inspection on the Bede
4.
Tony Castellano
tcastella(at)juno.com
Hopewell Junction, NY
RV-6 (fuselage now out of jig)
writes:
>
>
><<
> It is my understanding that if you build an experimental plane and
>get a
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: Builders log(2) |
Brian Denk wrote:
> Our local EAA chapter isn't much to get excited about...am not expecting
> much assistance from them. But...I'll look into it for insurance
> purposes anyway.
>
Brian
You could be from Tallahassee,FL. The local EAA is worthless, they
are all fence sitters. they can't stand the fact that someone
would biuld an airplane and not be a member of the local chapter.
Every time they are around the airport I roll the RV outside
just to piss them off.
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: RV6AQ build time |
> There are some with more skill (I am sure) and more time (I suspect) that
> will probably finish in 1-1.5 years. (Captain Lewis is probably right
> around the corner if not airborne already).
>
I replied to Mike (off-list) that I'm at just over 1000 hours on what
I now believe to be a 1500-1700 project. I'm probably guessing low
on that time estimate. Panel almost done, then engine, cowling,
fairings, paint, and fly (after another 1000 little details I'm sure
I've overlooked). '98 some time, I hope.
Major Tim Lewis (yup, even us ROTC pukes can get promoted)
Moving to D.C. in 40 days (have to put the RV on a $#%&^^ truck!)
------------------------------------
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or
timrv6a(at)iname.com
------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
"Austin Tinckler" wrote:
>
> I still wasn't prepared when one asked if I was building a canoe and the
>other asked in all seriousness which end was the front...
My wife and I both get a lot of enjoyment out of watching people's
reactions to seeing an airplane in the garage. Sometimes I work with the
garage door open and there have been several near collisions on my street
from unsuspecting souls rubbernecking as they drive by.
Dave Barnhart
RV-6 sn 23744 N601DB
cowling
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Octane reduction |
From: | tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com (John T. Craig-Stearman) |
For the record: I hereby loudly and firmly second Chris Browne's
characterization of the EPA as "enviro-nazis". I cannot imagine any of
those over-zealous beauracrats with their permanent scowls ever flying an
airplane, let alone a homebuilt. Is it possible that Ken Berndt is a
mole on the RV List?
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com
RV-4 wings mounted, builder's tongue firmly planted in cheek
writes:
>> Mr. Browne, I'm not sure that any of your message has any
>merit. Yes,
>one can attain 100 octane without lead. But more importantly your
>attitude
>toward the EPA offends me and I'm sure many others. Name calling has
>no
>place on this site.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tom Goettsche <tom(at)rt66.com> |
Subject: | Re: inspections and annuals |
I am currently getting ready to start my HS and am a co-owner/co-builder
of our kit. How does this affect the getting of a repairman cert. Do
we both petition and receive, or will only one of us be able to aquire a
repairman cert.
Also how does this affect the 51% rule when it comes time for
inspection?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tom Goettsche <tom(at)rt66.com> |
Subject: | inspections and annuals |
I am currently getting ready to start my HS and am a co-owner/co-builder
of our kit. How does this affect the getting of a repairman cert. Do
we both petition and receive, or will only one of us be able to aquire a
repairman cert.
Also how does this affect the 51% rule when it comes time for
inspection?
tom goettsche
just starting and loving it
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Repairman's certificate |
From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS) |
writes:
>
>
><<
> It is my understanding that if you build an experimental plane and
>get a repairman's certificate for the plane you built, then essentially
you
>can do everything on you own including repairs, (Snip)
>
> J. E. Rehler RV6A flying Corpus Christi, Texas
> >>
> That is correct,
> Ryan
Agreed, with one clarification. Repairs, as in minor repairs.
All MAJOR repairs, alterations, etc. require a new airworthiness
certificate.
Jim Ayers
RV-3 LOM M332A Ivoprop VP prop On third airworthiness certificate.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rhett Westerman <rhettw(at)premier.net> |
Subject: | Throttle/Mixture bracket and carb heat |
Hello all,
I am building a GlaStar (0-320) with an RV-6 Exhaust, carb air box and
ram air scoop.
I have two questions that probably can be answered here by someone on
this list.
First is regards the throttle/mixture bracket. I saw earlier that the
bracket availaible from vans does not work with the AS&S cables. Is this
bracket easily modifiable to work with the As&S cables? Or is there
another bracket that will work? I am trying to avoid making a bracket
from scratch if it has already been done.
Second, regards the carb air box. I have the Robbins heat muffs and the
Carb air box all mounted. I am wondering how to get the carb heat from
the muff to the top plate of the carb air box. I have the door installed
in the top plate per the instructions but it did not say how to get the
carb heat into the box. It seems the handle for the door will present a
bit of a problem. How have others addressed this?
BTW, my hangar partner is building an RV-6 and I am now interested in
one of these as well.
thanks
--
-------------------------------------
Rhett Westerman
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
rhettw(at)premier.net
WWW Home Page http://www.premier.net/~rhettw/index.htm
-------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net> |
Subject: | Canopy Shade and Sound Insulation for RV-6A |
I would appreciate some "consumer reports" or advice on two items:
1. Canopy shade kit by Koger is available from Vans for $149. What has
been the field experience with this kit? Worth while...a must have?
2. I am interested in sound insulation to keep the ANR headset from
working overtime. Kit from Gallatin, TN, costing around $130 provides
"floor/firewall accoustical/flame barrier and insulation." Have any of
you had experience with this kit? Is there a more practical or
economical approach to sound/heat insulation?
Thanks in advance for comments...and I did try the archives for SHADE.
A Lister named Shades yielded a bountiful false response.
Will Cretsinger
cretsinger(at)arlington.net
Arlington, TX
Finishing fuselage, -6A finish kit inventoried...no deficiencies, thanks
to Van's kit craters.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
While were on the subject of placards, does "EXPERIMENTAL" have to be a
minimum size and does the placard which has to be displayed in the
cockpit in full view of all occupants "PASSENGER WARNING etc" have to be
a minimum size?
One last thing. On all the paperwork from my local FSDO regarding
certification, "Serial Number" is mentioned. Is this my plans number
from Vans or since this is my first RV6A would the s/n be 1?
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
Subject: | Wing tip lighting |
At a recent flyin I noticed two different ways wing tip lighting has
been installed. I'm specifically referring to the light fixtures that
house a colored position light, a strobe and and aft facing white
light. One method is to build up a pedistal of sorts which makes the
light fixture fit sort of square with the wing. The other method is to
simply attach the fixture to the sloping underside of the wing tip.
Do both methods meet the convergence distances (especially aft) required
by FAA for night VFR certification?
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Warren/MK Bishop" <wemkbish(at)nponline.net> |
Subject: | Empenage Fairing |
A while back there was some discussion about the fiber glass empanage
fairings from Van's not fitting well.
Bob Skinner offered his solution of taking that fairing and making a mold
from it for a one layer layup. This one layer layup (quite flexible) could
then be "installed" on your plane and 3 more layers added while on the
plane for a "perfect" fit.
I was one that did that procedure from Bob's mold before he moved to WY. It
worked very well and I'd recommed it to anyone.
Contact Bob for further info.
Warren Bishop
RV-6 Engine stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by InfoAve.Net
From: | GIBBONSR.FTC-I.NET(at)InfoAve.Net (RB Gibbons) |
________________________________________________________________________________
When they do destructive static testing, is the wing root
generally were the failure occurs? (Van's RVator article was didn't really
say anything about failure mode, other than it was "as expected")
Well, I was at Van's the day after they tested the RV-8 wing in the shop.
It failed right at 9 G's by kind of crumpling the structure about 3/4 out on
the wing. They told me that the kit wing would have fewer lightening holes
and maybe
longer spar bars or doubler and that it would be stronger than 9 G's. It
almost looked as if you could still fly it in the "crumpled" condition but I
suppose the aileron would be jammed.
RV-8 #80067
Wings and tail complete
RB Gibbons
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
Subject: | insurance,:earned |
<34251F18.3D45DD68(at)datastar.net> <19970922.063815.12006.0.grihen(at)juno.com>
Ther insurance man axplained to me that since they would be covering an
airplane that had not yet proved to be airworthy, that the first 500.oo
dollars of the policy would be considered "earned". This would mean if
something were to happen to the plane during the first period of
coverage that they would not refund the first 500.00. It seemed very
fair to me since they would cover it from the first test flight. Other
companies, including Avemco, I believe, said they wouldn't cover it till
it had ten hours on it. If I crash it on the first flight I would be
more than happy to forfeit the 500.00 to get the rest of the money I had
it insured for. I think the insurance company is taking a big risk. (I
mean, uh, I know nothing bad will happen, but they don't.)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
Subject: | Re: Workmanship (chatter) |
> "Austin Tinckler" wrote:
>>
>> I still wasn't prepared when one asked if I was building a canoe and the
>>other asked in all seriousness which end was the front...
My favorite question: "Are you really going to fly that thing?" , to
which I reply with a straight face: "No, I'm going to put it in the backyard
and turn it into the world's most expensive flower planter."
Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
rv-list(at)matronics.com
Send email to tools(at)pdsig.n2.net for an automatic response of a list
of tools for sale.
Send email to infobot(at)pdsig.n2.net for a directory of other interesting =
stuff!
("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Bill Nash
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Aircraft Remanufacturing Corp
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' 1531 Avohill Dr
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Vista, Ca 92084 (760) 749 0239
(((),-'' (((),' (((.-' Email: bjnash(at)pdsig.n2.net
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/index.html =20
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: inspections and annuals |
<3425208C.4F3CFC16(at)datastar.net>
From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS) |
(Michael C. Lott) writes:
>
>Hi Jim,
>I didn't build this airplane. Are you saying there is a way to get a
>repairman's certificate for this plane, short of getting a full blown
>A+P license? Michael
Hi Michael,
I guess I misunderstood. If you built the airplane, you can apply for
the Aircraft Repairmen's Certificate.
I didn't understand that you had bought the aircraft and hadn't helped
build it at all.
Jim Ayers
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
Subject: | Re: Octane reduction |
While we may wonder about 93UL fuel's impact on our LyCon's in the spam
cans, consider its impact on a R-2600 at 44" MP or a Merlin at 60+" MP.
Those of us in the Warbird world are more than just abit worried.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
Subject: | Re: "EXPERIMENTAL" |
>
>While were on the subject of placards, does "EXPERIMENTAL" have to be a
>minimum size and does the placard which has to be displayed in the
>cockpit in full view of all occupants "PASSENGER WARNING etc" have to be
>a minimum size?
>
>One last thing. On all the paperwork from my local FSDO regarding
>certification, "Serial Number" is mentioned. Is this my plans number
>from Vans or since this is my first RV6A would the s/n be 1?
>--
>Chet Razer
>crazer(at)egyptian.net
Boy ... doesn't anyone read the FARs anymore?? ..:^) It's all in there
in black and white, and even on your Internet terminal at:-
http://www3.landings.com/cgi-bin/get_file?pass=5325848&FAR/part_45/toc.html
"Sec. 45.23 Display of marks; general.
(a) Each operator of an aircraft shall display on that aircraft marks
consisting of the Roman capital letter "N" (denoting United States
registration) followed by the
registration number of the aircraft. Each suffix letter used in the marks
displayed must also be a Roman capital letter.
(b) When marks that include only the Roman capital letter "N" and the
registration number are displayed on limited or restricted category
aircraft or experimental or
provisionally certificated aircraft, the operator shall also display on
that aircraft near each entrance to the cabin or cockpit, in letters not
less than 2 inches nor more
than 6 inches in height, the words "limited," "restricted," "experimental,"
or "provisional airworthiness," as the case may be. "
As far as the serial number, it's up to you and you can use any number
you want ... BUT common practise is just to use the serial number assigned
to you by the plans maker/kit supplier. In a similar vein, you can use any
combination of your name as the manufacturer ( Razer -- Chester Razer --
Razer, Chester ), but the FAA (and your DAR) forms are fussy that all
fields match up -- so the easiest thing to do is just use your last name
only.
The Tech. Counsellor inspection I did last Sat. just before a DAR
inspection had his final paperwork held up because he did not abide by this
convention and used different variations of his name on different forms.
It caused an extra trip, and a days delay, as well as a slightly annoyed DAR.
ALSO note the following:-
"Sec. 45.11 General.
(a) Aircraft and aircraft engines. Aircraft covered under Sec. 21.182 of
this chapter must be identified, and each person who manufacturers an
aircraft engine under
a type or production certificate shall identify that engine, by means of a
fireproof plate that has the information specified in Sec. 45.13 of this
part marked on it by
etching, stamping, engraving, or other approved method of fireproof
marking. The identification plate for aircraft must be secured in such a
manner that it will not
likely be defaced or removed during normal service, or lost or destroyed in
an accident. Except as provided in paragraphs (c) and (d) of this section,
the aircraft
identification plate must be secured to the aircraft fuselage exterior so
that it is legible to a person on the ground, and must be either adjacent
to and aft of the
rear-most entrance door or on the fuselage surface near the tail surfaces.
For aircraft engines, the identification plate must be affixed to the
engine at an accessible
location in such a manner that it will not likely be defaced or removed
during normal service, or lost or destroyed in an accident. "
AND (PARTIAL)
"Sec. 45.13 Identification data.
(a) The identification required by Sec. 45.11 (a) and (b) shall include the
following information:
(1) Builder's name.
(2) Model designation.
(3) Builder's serial number.
(4) Type certificate number, if any.
(5) Production certificate number, if any. "
These two paragraphs say that the 'large' data plate still being sold
by the homebuilders supply houses is no longer required (for example: your
address and date of manufacture is NOT needed). I also saw a DAR reject
one of these commercial data plates because it wasn't fireproof. So just
put in the information needed above, and make sure it's fireproof
(stainless). Remember, the DAR/FAA inspector is just following the letter
of the law, and the letter is in those FARs!
Gil (read those FARs and keep those forms straight) Alexander
-------------------------------------------------------
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <MAILER-DAEMON(at)nysyr.ang.af.mil> |
Subject: | Undeliverable Message |
charset=ISO-8859-1
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <MAILER-DAEMON(at)nysyr.ang.af.mil> |
Subject: | Undeliverable Message |
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <MAILER-DAEMON(at)nysyr.ang.af.mil> |
Subject: | Undeliverable Message |
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net (Chris Brooks) |
Subject: | Re: Sound Insulation for RV-6A |
There are 2 local RV6's that I know of using the sound insulation, and
they are happy with it. I've visited with John who sells the kit and
seen his RV6 project. He seems to have done his homework on material
selection, and supplys a special tape for installation. I believe he has
taken a decimeter up in a -6 before and after installation to verify
results. I plan on using it in mine.
Chris Brooks
BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
Subject: | Re: New RV-6 Cowl - no swaps |
>------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
>Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 12:32:40 -0400
>From: Vangrunsven <76455.1602(at)compuserve.com>
>Subject: New Cowl
>To: "INTERNET:timrv6a(at)iname.com"
>
>Van has stated that he will NOT be taking old cowls back. His intentions
>are to convert over entirely to the epoxy cowl as of now.
Tim,
Did they quote a price if it was bought outright?
Have a good day!
Denny,
RV-6 (R)N641DH
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Moore <bobmoore(at)wwd.net> |
Subject: | Re: insurance,:earned |
<34251F18.3D45DD68(at)datastar.net> <19970922.063815.12006.0.grihen(at)juno.com>
<34273C76.19B78DCF(at)datastar.net>
Michael C. Lott wrote:
> Ther insurance man axplained to me that since they would be covering an
> airplane that had not yet proved to be airworthy, that the first 500.oo
> dollars of the policy would be considered "earned". This would mean if
> something were to happen to the plane during the first period of
> coverage that they would not refund the first 500.00.
Ah ha, sounds to me like a $500 "deductable" policy.
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Canopy Shade and Sound Insulation for RV-6A |
<< I would appreciate some "consumer reports" or advice on two items:
1. Canopy shade kit by Koger is available from Vans for $149. What has
been the field experience with this kit? Worth while...a must have?
I have some static cling shade material on my bird. Check the photos in Sport
Aviation. It is black with actual holes in it, so it will sort of conform to
the canopy compound curve- I did have to split it down the middle. I think
the -6 would be OK, because you would have a pc on the rt & lt.
I got this part at Wal-Mart, suppliers of many a/c parts. It is intended for
the rear window of a pickup. $17. Fit it to the OUTSIDE of your canopy first,
and transfer it to the inside.
2. I am interested in sound insulation to keep the ANR headset from
working overtime. Kit from Gallatin, TN, costing around $130 provides
"floor/firewall accoustical/flame barrier and insulation." Have any of
you had experience with this kit? Is there a more practical or
economical approach to sound/heat insulation?
I helped finish a -4, already equipped with this stuff, and I know of a
Rocket with the kit, also. Both a/c had a slight fuel leak inside at initial
pressure test. The insulation did a fine job of soaking the fuel up. Yuk. So
it was removed. I used some 3/8 thick, aluminum faced (on both sides) mat'l
from Summit Racing, about $30 for a pc 4' x 6'
.p/n TRU-3100, 1-800-230-3030 >>
Check six!
Mark
HR 2 180 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: "EXPERIMENTAL" |
Gil Alexander wrote:
>
> "Sec. 45.23 Display of marks; general.
>
> (a) Each operator of an aircraft shall display on that aircraft marks
> consisting of the Roman capital letter "N" (denoting United States
> registration) followed by the
> registration number of the aircraft. Each suffix letter used in the marks
> displayed must also be a Roman capital letter.
> (b) When marks that include only the Roman capital letter "N" and the
> registration number are displayed on limited or restricted category
> aircraft or experimental or
> provisionally certificated aircraft, the operator shall also display on
> that aircraft near each entrance to the cabin or cockpit, in letters not
> less than 2 inches nor more
> than 6 inches in height, the words "limited," "restricted," "experimental,"
> or "provisional airworthiness," as the case may be. "
>
Gil,
Thanks for the reference, got me curious about "only the Roman capital
letter "N"" so I searched a little further and found:
-----------------
"Sec. 45.22 Exhibition, antique, and other aircraft: Special rules.
(b) A small U.S.-registered aircraft built at least 30 years ago or a
U.S.- registered aircraft for which an experimental certificate has been
issued under Sec. 21.191(d) or 21.191(g) for operation as an exhibition
aircraft or as an amateur-built aircraft and which has the same external
configuration as an aircraft built at least 30 years ago may be operated
without displaying marks in accordance with Secs. 45.21
and 45.23 through 45.33 if:
(1) It displays in accordance with Sec. 45.21(c) marks at least 2 inches
high on each side of the fuselage or vertical tail surface consisting of
the Roman capital letter "N" followed by:
(i) The U.S. registration number of the aircraft; or
(ii) The symbol appropriate to the airworthiness certificate of the
aircraft ("C", standard; "R", restricted; "L", limited; or "X",
experimental) followed by the U.S. registration number of the aircraft;"
------------------
Based on this it appears you could display your registration number as
"NX999RV" and not have to have the "EXPERIMENTAL" sign. Has anyone tried
this? What was your experience with FAA/DARs?
--
Greg Young
Citabria N90AV
RV-6 s/n 23070 skinning fuselage, drilling fingers
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Throttle/Mixture bracket and carb heat |
<< I saw earlier that the
bracket availaible from vans does not work with the AS&S cables. Is this
bracket easily modifiable to work with the As&S cables? Or is there
another bracket that will work? I am trying to avoid making a bracket
from scratch if it has already been done.>>
I have a drawing to help you fab one that will work. I also have one for the
prop governor. E-mail me with your address and I will send them.
<< Second, regards the carb air box. I have the Robbins heat muffs and the
Carb air box all mounted. I am wondering how to get the carb heat from
the muff to the top plate of the carb air box. I have the door installed
in the top plate per the instructions but it did not say how to get the
carb heat into the box. It seems the handle for the door will present a
bit of a problem. How have others addressed this? >>
Rick made me a 2" dia flange to mount on the airbox. It is simply a 4" piece
of 2" tubing butt welded in the center of a 4" x 4" piece of .032 sheet. I
put four 1" holes around the tube to allow air to flow thru when alt air is
not used. You place it slightly to the left of center so that you can slot
the sheet for the actuating handle. Works great.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
Subject: | Re: Sound Insulation for RV-6A |
>>
>>There are 2 local RV6's that I know of using the sound insulation, and
>>they are happy with it.
>>
We've updated and revised our popular free booklet:
"How To Soundproof Light Aircraft".
This "HOW TO" manual is written for the aircraft mechanic, but is
simple enough for the homebuilder. Covers materials,
application and fire safety, FAA regulations, certs, sources, etc.
get a text file of it (no illustrations) by return e-mail from our
auto-responder MAILBOT:
soundprf(at)pdsig.n2.net =20
with "Booklet" in the text message. Or send your name and address
for a free hard copy (with illustrations) by return US mail.
Send email to infobot(at)pdsig.n2.net for a directory of other interesting =
stuff!
("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Bill Nash
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Aircraft Remanufacturing Corp
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' 1531 Avohill Dr
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Vista, Ca 92084 (760) 749 0239
(((),-'' (((),' (((.-' Email: bjnash(at)pdsig.n2.net
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/index.html =20
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
Subject: | Re: insurance,:earned |
<34251F18.3D45DD68(at)datastar.net> <19970922.063815.12006.0.grihen(at)juno.com>
<34273C76.19B78DCF(at)datastar.net> <3427B919.2673(at)wwd.net>
Hi Bob,
It's only a one time thing. I think it is worth the 500.00 to be
covered from the first flight. Has anyone else come up with a better
policy? If I didn't have coverage for the first 10 hours, I would be
thinking about more than just flying the plane.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Moore, Robert" <RMoore(at)aus.etn.com> |
Subject: | RV-8 Aerobatics? |
><< What is a lumchevfok?? >>
>
>It's actually lomchevok (I'm fairly certain of the spelling but I could be
>one character off) and is supposedly Polish for headache. It is an ass over
>tea kettle manuever on the upswing like approaching a hammerhead and then
>going kattywumpus.
>
Oh, thank you, I understand now ... except, what's a kattywumpus?
Bob Moore
>Austin, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
Subject: | Re: Cutting parts |
I've used my table saw with fine results. I believe the blade is a planer but
I
first used a dull plywood blade which made rough edges. I suspect a sharp one
would have done better.
I can double check the blade type if anyone is interested.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Auto engines on MWF, Lycomings on TTS
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
>
> A table saw will work fine with either a non-ferrous metal blade or a good
carbide blade.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net> |
Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
Moore, Robert wrote:
> Oh, thank you, I understand now ... except, what's a kattywumpus?
Bob--
Check out drawing PP-21, detail AA-1b, for how to fabricate a
kattywumpus. I think it's made from .032", but you'd better double
check that. Be sure to countersink, not dimple, or "severe distortion
will result," as the instructions warn. If that happens, don't sweat
it--you can always use it as a spare thingamajig.
--Don McNamara
wangs
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Plumbing shackles for jack point |
The Feb 97 Rvator shows Alex Sloan using a plumbing shackle as a jacking
point and I have been trying local plumbing shops to buy one. They apparently
are not common use items for plumbers anymore. Does anyone know a source?
Bernie Kerr, RV6A skinning the wings
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
Fellow Listers,
How are aluminum parts anodized? Inquiring minds want to know.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken Berndt <kberndt(at)badlands.nodak.edu> |
A few days ago someone mentioned sound control in the cockpit. The stereo
industry can help us in this regard. A material called Dynamat is used to
super insulate and deaden automotive sound installations. This material can
be purchased from an electronics distributer or if you have lotsa bucks,
your automotive sound installer. MCM Electronics-1-800-543-4330 is a good
source for this material as well as other syles made by other manufacturers.
I see a material in there called SDS that sells for 1/10 as much as Dynamat
but I don't have any idea if it works as well.
Good luck
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aerobatics? |
>
>
> Moore, Robert wrote:
> > Oh, thank you, I understand now ... except, what's a kattywumpus?
>
I've always understood "kattywumpus" to mean uneven or crooked. Used
in a sentance;
I fornaskewed the thingus and now the frammus is all kattywumpus to the
whatsit.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
Nice post, Austin, keep us all informed of your progress.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | 0-320 H2AD installation |
If there is currently anyone on the list that has installed a H2AD engine
in a RV6, please respond with phone # so that I can talk with you about
cowling and baffles.
John Henley RV6
Engine hung and working on cowling
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: inspections and annuals |
<3427180C.B371E750(at)rt66.com>
From: | tcastella(at)juno.com (Anthony J Castellano) |
Only one of you can get a repairman certificate and perform condition
inspections , but both of you can do maintenance.
It's OK for more than one person to build an airplane and still meet the
51% rule.
Tony Castellano
tcastella(at)juno.com
Hopewell Junction, NY
RV-6 (fuselage now out of jig)
writes:
>
>I am currently getting ready to start my HS and am a
>co-owner/co-builder
>of our kit. How does this affect the getting of a repairman cert. Do
>we both petition and receive, or will only one of us be able to aquire
>a
>repairman cert.
>
>Also how does this affect the 51% rule when it comes time for
>inspection?
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | ShelbyRV6A(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Anodizing parts |
In a message dated 9/23/97 8:11:56 PM, you wrote:
<>
I just downloaded this the other day from Compuserve. This should get you
started.
From: John D. Taupier, 71732,2672
Topic: Anodizing
Msg #1332077
Section: Homebuilt Corner [12]
Forum: AVSIG
Date: Thu, Sep 18, 1997, 10:23:30 PM
I've been away and wasn't able to get this together until tonight.
.. exposed aluminum parts, not anodized, will corrode. He strongly
recommends anodizing and insists that it is easy and fun (?) to do. All you
need:
1 gallon plastic jug cut off to make a bucket.
1 gallon of battery acid (H2SO4) at a specific gravity of 1.10.
A lead plate a little larger than the parts to be anodized.
(Aluminum foil will work also, but lead lasts longer)
12 volt battery charger (6 amps is best).
Pure, soft aluminum wire. (Aluminum Welding Wire)
Trisodium phosphate (TSP) available at hardware stores, diluted .80 ounces
per gallon of water.
CLEANLINESS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO SUCCESS. He used wooden tongs and chop
sticks to handle all parts after cleaning and proceeded in the following way:
Degrease all parts to be anodized.
Heat TSP to boiling, cool to just under boiling, immerse parts 3 minutes.
Water rinse avoiding touching the parts. TSP is better than acetone, but an
acetone pre-rinse is good.
TO ANODIZE:
Positive lead to parts
Negative lead to lead plate. USE THE ALUMINUM WIRE. A good contact is
the secret to success.
Gas bubbles evolving from the lead plate proves that anodizing is
occurring.
Leave parts in the anodize process 25 to 30 minutes.
Water rinse.
Boil parts for 10 minutes in tap water to seal the anodizing.
Add RIT clothes dye to the water (I tried about 1 tsp/quart) to give
a nice color and more importantly, to demonstrate that the piece was evenly
done, that the piece was properly done. The dye cannot be reused, unless you
are willing to have a variety of shades.
The only caution note is to be careful with the acid. It is not a strong
acid, but acid is acid and can burn, therefore use personal protection of
skin and clothing and in event of an acid spill, wash thoroughly in baking
soda and water. If you wear good clothes, you will make holes in them! A
rubber apron helps.
I did small parts in a SOLID, ALL-GLASS aquarium. Tubing was done inside two
large PVC pipes - one inside the other. The inner one had holes drilled in
it. The aluminum foil, or lead foil was between the two pipes and the item
was inside the inner pipe. You need to install a drain plug or valve in the
bottom so you are not balancing and pouring acid in your hanger. After a
good rinse, you can do the boiling water soak in the pipe also. Again, the
valve is essential. Think it through before you do it.
John
Passing on information.
Shelby in Nashville.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
Subject: | Re: Anodizing parts |
It is an electrochemical process. The parts are the anodes - hooked to the plus
side of the
battery or other DC source. Parts are treated to have an oxide surface which is
then dyed. Memory is flakey here. I have a book on metalworking as art which
describes the process so that you could do it at home. A friend said his son
did it in a high school science class.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Auto engines on MWF, Lycomings on TTS
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Subject: | Re: Anodizing parts |
> How are aluminum parts anodized? Inquiring minds want to know.
It's an electrochemical process. Check the archives, there are some
pretty good write-ups on it in there. You probably want to search
for "anodyzing" AND "anodizing".
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | wmills(at)southwind.net (William H. Mills) |
Subject: | Re: Octane Reduction |
Just my $0.02 on the subject...
I am no EPA fan (I'm more of the mind Chris and Tom are on the subject),
but I wouldn't put the whole thing on their shoulders; they just pushed the
timetable up. Considering the special handling that leaded aviation fuel
requires (partly because it's "aviation fuel" and partly because it's
leaded fuel in an essentially unleaded fuel world, requiring its own
tanks, piping, trucks, etc.) and the relatively small volumes produced
relative to unleaded automotive gasolines, it's only a matter of time
before we'd be facing this predicament solely due to economic reasons: few
refineries want to mess with avgas at this point, and once it becomes
cost-prohibitive for the remaining refineries to mess with it, either due
to small market, cost to do all the handling, the leaded-gas-only
apparatus, government-mandated taxes/levies/you name it, it's history.
This is not a trivial problem. As you know, there is a fairly substantial
effort going on right now, jointly between the refiners, airframers
(Cessna, Raytheon, for example), engine manufacturers, FAA, EAA, and
others, to try and formulate an unleaded replacement for 100LL...and it
does not look like a full 100-octane replacement will be available (93UL is
what it looks like will be forthcoming; I believe they're currently running
the tests on it even as we correspond). EAA may have been more
foresightful than they even realized by their auto fuel STC work; that
gives a fairly good-sized proportion of the piston engine population a
viable alternate fuel right now...unfortunately, their solution is of
little help to those who really do need the high-octane stuff (Doug: all I
can suggest for the warbird crowd is really reduced manifold pressures,
stockpile the stuff, or run nitromethane and realize it'll be one heck of a
ride...for a very short time).
It was suggested that octane enhancers (other than tetraethyl lead) were
available to make a 100LL replacement; I'd strongly suggest that the effort
mentioned above would show that to be another rosy prediction from those
who are interested in advancing an agenda but don't really grasp the true
nature of the problem (there are a host of other examples of this kind of
thinking). One thing to keep in mind: any additive that you'd care to
name has to be shown to be safe for whatever is going to contain, convey,
or use the resulting mixture in whatever concentrations are likely to
occur; many of these compounds aggressively attack things like rubber
and/or plastic components, which obviously is not good for fuel system
components. In the certificated aircraft world, we have to test each and
every one of the types of fuels we intend to certificate the aircraft for
use with, including additives; it doesn't matter how similar the fuel or
additive is to what is already used...it must be tested to show no adverse
effects on any component of the aircraft fuel system or engine. That's a
big part of the research being done right now, as well.
One ray of hope exists (and I'm not saying it's the only one): many of the
engines we use are actually designed for 96 octane (the old blue gas), not
100. It is possible they will run fine as-is with the 93UL. It is also
possible that this will force Lycoming and Continental to certify their
engines with truly modern ignition systems that include the knock-sensors,
electronic ignition, and other technologies that are commonplace on modern
auto engines.
Bill Mills
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Musser" <jemusser(at)tenet.edu> |
Subject: | Re: Builders Log - Software |
I, too am interested if you haven't enough interest as yet!
John
>
>I am building an RV6A and I also teach various computer programming at a
>local college. I started working on a software program to track my own
>building progress and thought others could use it as well. My program is
>designed to track the following and maybe more:
>
>* Work done by section (Tail, Wings, Fuselage, etc.) You can break these
>down further also
>* Expenses incurred (Tools, parts, services). You may also add to or
>modify these
>* Track where things were bought from, serial numbers, warranty
>* Print a logbook type report by any sorting you need
>* Tracks insurance info
>* Tracks any tax owed the state. A sup rise at registration time if you
>haven't paid....
>* A maintenance and repair section is under way and also a prop log
>
>I will be offering this to the RV-List in the near future as shareware.
>Meaning you try it and if you like it you can pay me something for it. I
>have not set any price yet.
>
>I would like to ask for 5 builders to be my Beta testers.
>Please e-mail me off list so we can discuss
>
>Minimum requirements as beta tester
>
>Windows 95
>2 mb hard disk space
>8 mb memory
>
>Rick Osgood
>RV6A wings
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John McMahon <rv6(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Canopy Shade and Sound Insulation for RV-6A |
Will Cretsinger wrote:
>
>
> I would appreciate some "consumer reports" or advice on two items:
>
>
> 2. I am interested in sound insulation to keep the ANR headset from
> working overtime. Kit from Gallatin, TN, costing around $130 provides
>
> "floor/firewall accoustical/flame barrier and insulation." Have any
> of
> you had experience with this kit? Is there a more practical or
> economical approach Thanks in advance for comments...and I did try the
> archives for SHADE.
> A Lister named Shades yielded a bountiful false response.to sound/heat
> insulation?
>
>
>
> Will Cretsinger
> cretsinger(at)arlington.net
> Arlington, TX
> Finishing fuselage, -6A finish kit inventoried...no deficiencies,
> thanks
> to Van's kit craters.
> Will The sound kit does work well !!!!
> John
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
I don't think that our RVs would qualify under this rule as they are not of
"the same external configuration as an aircraft built at least 30 years ago".
At least not yet. Additionally, I have read about a restriction on
amateur-built aircraft using the "X" symbol, but I don't have the reference at
hand.
In regard to the original post, I too used 2 inch letters across the upper
baggage bulkhead in my RV-6A. The passenger warning was placed on the panel
using a placard transfer from either Wicks or Wag-Aero.
Les Williams
"Sec. 45.22 Exhibition, antique, and other aircraft: Special rules.
(b) A small U.S.-registered aircraft built at least 30 years ago or a
U.S.- registered aircraft for which an experimental certificate has been
issued under Sec. 21.191(d) or 21.191(g) for operation as an exhibition
aircraft or as an amateur-built aircraft and which has the same external
configuration as an aircraft built at least 30 years ago may be operated
without displaying marks in accordance with Secs. 45.21
and 45.23 through 45.33 if:
(1) It displays in accordance with Sec. 45.21(c) marks at least 2 inches
high on each side of the fuselage or vertical tail surface consisting of
the Roman capital letter "N" followed by:
(i) The U.S. registration number of the aircraft; or
(ii) The symbol appropriate to the airworthiness certificate of the
aircraft ("C", standard; "R", restricted; "L", limited; or "X",
experimental) followed by the U.S. registration number of the aircraft;"
------------------
Based on this it appears you could display your registration number as
"NX999RV" and not have to have the "EXPERIMENTAL" sign. Has anyone tried
this? What was your experience with FAA/DARs?
--
Greg Young
Citabria N90AV
RV-6 s/n 23070 skinning fuselage, drilling fingers
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Larry D. Hoatson" <lhoatson(at)e2.empirenet.com> |
> A material called Dynamat <>>
Has this product been tested for flammability?Larry
--
Larry D. Hoatson Yucaipa, CA Redlands (L12) Airport
lhoatson(at)empirenet.com
Restoring 1950 Cessna 170A N9948A... Looking forward to RV-6
"Either Raise Your Skill Level... or Lower Your Standards"
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Darrell L. Anderson" <d.l.anderson(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Tools for RV-Shopsmith |
Has anyone ever used a tool called a Shopsmith as a combination drill press
and band saw in conjuction with building your RV? Did you find it adequate?
Mike Kiess/RV6AQ kit on the way!
Yes, I am (ab)using my Shopsmith cutting metal for my RV-4.
Good points:
One tool does both jobs. An adequate bandsaw and drill press.
You only pay for one motor.
Instant variable speed...no ratios to change.
It rolls away for storage.
I use the strip belt sander for some deburring and trimming.
I also used the table saw and a thin-rim veneer blade to taper
the ends of the spar bars...worked great!
The 12" disk sander can be used at the same time as the
bandsaw. Make your cut, then clean it up on the sander.
Bad points:
The table on my vintage Shopsmith (Mark V) is somewhat
'springy' in the drill press mode. If you have to really
bear down, as in drilling your tailwheel spring, you lose
accuracy. The newest model has table supports that adjust
to the floor to support the outside edge of the table.
The Shopsmith bandsaw and table saw (drill press) use aluminum tables
and so are scratched up by aluminum filings and rough edges. I cover
my tables with adhesive plastic for some protection
You can't use the bandsaw and the vertical drill press mode at
the same time, but conversion from one to the other takes only a
minute.
For both the bandsaw and drilling, the lowest variable
speed setting is a little too fast for even aluminum, WAAAAY
too fast for steel. They offer a geared reduction unit to slow
it down (more $$$).
The bandsaw takes 70" blades, non-standard with other brands, and
not available everywhere. 70" real metal cutting blades are rare,
must be custom made or ordered.
The Shopsmith was *there* when I started building, but if I was looking
for just a bandsaw and a drill press, I think I could get both for
less than the basic Shopsmith.
Now, if you want to talk woodworking.....that's a whole different story.
Darrell Anderson
RV-4 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Darrell L. Anderson" <d.l.anderson(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Hi all,
I figured someone else would have mentioned this before, but since no
one has, here goes. When using a "click" type torque wrench it is
IMPRETITIVE to reset the wrench to zero when you are done.
Charlie Kuss
Boca Raton, Fl.
RV-8 empannage
The military teaches, "...reset the wrench to the lowest
setting." I.e.., a 250-1200 in-lb. wrench is reset to 250
when you're done. You don't want to unscrew the adjuster all the way to zero.
I think that was your point.
Darrell Anderson
making a career out of RV-4 wings.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Darrell L. Anderson" <d.l.anderson(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Can someone e-mail off the list and explain or show me how to unsubsribe?
Mike Comeaux-----------mcomeaux(at)cmc.net
You're puling' our leg, right?
If not, read below, again.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bruce Bockius <elrond(at)europa.com> |
Subject: | Re: Octane reduction |
John T. Craig-Stearman wrote:
> For the record: I hereby loudly and firmly second Chris Browne's
> characterization of the EPA as "enviro-nazis". I cannot imagine any
> of
> those over-zealous beauracrats with their permanent scowls ever flying
> an
> airplane, let alone a homebuilt. Is it possible that Ken Berndt is a
> mole on the RV List?
> Regards,
> Tom Craig-Stearman
> tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com
> RV-4 wings mounted, builder's tongue firmly planted in cheek
Most definately not to defend the EPA, but if you look in the letters to
the editor of the September issue of SA, you will find that Bruce
Jordan, Director of the EPA is a 'longtime' member of the EAA.
-Bruce
-------------------------------------------
Bruce Bockius
elrond(at)europa.com
Hillsboro, OR, USA
http://www.europa.com/~elrond
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Ride-NE RV Builders Forum |
Anyone in the NY/NJ metro area heading up to the RV builders forum in Fulton
this weekend-I would be more than happy to share/pay for expenses. It's a
looong drive. I'm a 20 hour student pilot with an RV-6AQ kit on the way!
Regards-Mike Kiess
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
Subject: | RV-8 Aerobatics? |
> ><< What is a lumchevfok?? >>
> >
> >It's actually lomchevok(snip)
The aerobatic manoeuvre is a "lomcevak".
A "lumchevfok" is the act of making love with your mouth full of
sandwich.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 doing the fiddly bits before engine
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | CHRIS.BROWNE(at)bge.com |
Is anyone out there share my interest in a Franklin 6 cylinder in a
-6/6A? I had a pleasant discussion with Pat Goodman at Atlas Motors
(the importer), and apparently there has been interest, but no takers.
Pat says the Franklin is a very simple motor which is only 3/4" longer
than a Lyc and 351.2 pounds with accessories. It is certified, 205HP
nominal, has no prop speed limits, 1500 hrs TBO, and costs $12,000
bare. Baffling is apparently simple, and they have been installed in
Compairs and Velocities with only two failures (same guy multiple
times - installation problem maybe?)
I don't know how much a O-360 weighs, and I know installing a Franklin
will involve a custom engine mount and probably cowl mods, but it
still sounds interesting. Heck, if you can put a Chevy in there which
is 60#lbs more than a Lyc.
Chris Browne
Empennage real soon...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Question: Does this stuff meet the FAA fire resistance test
criteria????
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Working on 2'd RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>A few days ago someone mentioned sound control in the cockpit. The
stereo
>industry can help us in this regard. A material called Dynamat is used
to
>super insulate and deaden automotive sound installations. This material
can
>be purchased from an electronics distributer or if you have lotsa bucks,
>your automotive sound installer. MCM Electronics-1-800-543-4330 is a
good
>source for this material as well as other syles made by other
manufacturers.
>I see a material in there called SDS that sells for 1/10 as much as
Dynamat
>but I don't have any idea if it works as well.
>Good luck
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | AB320FLYER(at)aol.com |
I would like some feedback from anyone who might have used Van's everything
you need, handy-dandy wiring kit. Was there enough of everything, what type
of connectors were supplied, and did you consider it a good value?
Thanks.
Joel Harding (8004)
ab320flyer(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: N numbers Size |
I just want to be absolutely clear before I have my plane painted. If the RV
cruises below 200 mph (knots?) the N numbers can be small and still be able
to cross the borders, right?
Asked another way, do I need to put 12" characters on the plane if I go
across the US borders at slower than 200 mph (knots?)?
TIA
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Octane reduction |
<< the "enviro-nazi" label >>
Any group with a lot of power is going to miss-use that power at some time.
Part of the old truism of power corrupts, etc.
But on the subject of lead; how much of the lead from the lead-acid batteries
that will power all those new electric cars in California will end up
invading our environment? There must be 20 or 30 batteries in one of those
new so-called cars. Multiply that by how many the California EPA has
mandated and tell me that will not have an impact on the lead in our lives.
Gene Francis cafgef(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil> |
I dont know if you have ever used Dynamat before, but I have. The stuff is
very effective, but HEAVY!!! I understand there is a lighter weight version
now available, but have also heard that with the reduced weight comes
reduced effectiveness.
Mike Wills
RV-4(wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
>A few days ago someone mentioned sound control in the cockpit. The stereo
>industry can help us in this regard. A material called Dynamat is used to
>super insulate and deaden automotive sound installations.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Cheryl Sanchez <csanchez(at)mailhost.avici.com> |
Subject: | Exhaust gate temp gauge location? |
Hi,
I am getting ready to install my exhaust gas temp.
gauges and my question is: how far should they be from the
top of the exhaust pipe? I looked at my documentation but
there is no mention of this.
Thanks.
Cheryl Sanchez
csanchez(at)world.std.com
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | VFR Routes Thru The Rockies |
From: | ron.taborek(at)flight642.com (RON TABOREK) |
I would appreciate some advice from pilots experienced flying VFR
through the Rocky Mtns. in the northern US and Southern Canada.
A friend of mine and I are planning an excursion during the first week
in October from Toronto through the northern US to the west coast and
back through southern Canada. It will be VFR and we have no fixed
routing. We will be in a Pazmany PL-2, (O-320, all metal, two seater,
low wing, 120 kt TAS cruise.
What I am interested in is locating routes with relatively low
mountains, wide passes, good weather and diversionary airports. Looking
at the maps it appears we have these options.
WESTWARD THRU THE US ROCKIES
1) From Salt Lake City roughly following I-80 to Reno and the San
Francisco area.
2) From Salt Lake City roughly following I-84 to Boise, Pendelton and
Seattle.
NORTHWARD ALONG THE PACIFIC
1) San Francisco area along the coast to Vancouver BC.
2) San Francisco area roughly along I-5 to Vancouver BC.
EASTWARD THRU CANADA
1) Vancouver BC to Kelowna, Golden and Calgary, roughly following the
Trans Canada hiway.
2) Vancouver BC to Penticton, Cranbrooke and Lethbridge.
Comments on these or preferred route would be appreciated. Please email
direct to me at ron.taborek(at)flight642.com. I'll provide a summary to
those interested. Please let me know.
Ron Taborek Toronto RV-4 Installing O-320
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
Subject: | RE:Dynamat, other automotive materials |
DynaMat and other similar types of materials is available from auto
body paint shops and is quite expensive. It comes in small squares
and has an adhesive on one side protected by a peel off plastic. Any
material such as this is somewhat effective for sound proofing, but
has some drawbacks. It is similar to our material we call "Hood
liner" we sell for $20 a sheet. 48"X 64" about 3/8" thick.
Any material can simply be tested for flammability by using a match,
it should not continue to burn when the flame is removed or it is not
suitable....
Our free booklet "How to Sound proof Aircraft": is available by auto
responder from soundprf(at)pdsig.n2.net or send you name and address to
me and I'll mail you a hard copy. =20
=20
=20
Send email to infobot(at)pdsig.n2.net for a directory of other interesting =
stuff!
("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Bill Nash
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Aircraft Remanufacturing Corp
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' 1531 Avohill Dr
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Vista, Ca 92084 (760) 749 0239
(((),-'' (((),' (((.-' Email: bjnash(at)pdsig.n2.net
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/index.html =20
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Donald DiPaula <dipaula(at)access.digex.net> |
Subject: | retractable gear |
i'm new to the list, so please forgive me if this subject has been covered
before, but i don't see it in the FAQ...
on the RV homepage there are two pictures of a canadian RV-4 with retractable
gear. can anyone tell me about this? obviously not offered by van's, but
it looks really nice...
-D-
Cynthia Alice DiPaula was born 9 June 1997, 3:36 p.m., 7 lb. 10 oz., 20.5"
"Even a single elephant can be destructive."
SOLD*My 1988 Mazda MX-6 is for sale, email me if interested*SOLD
My 1989 Honda CB-1 (CB400F) is for sale, email me if interested, or read my
CB-1 description
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken Berndt <kberndt(at)badlands.nodak.edu> |
>
>Question: Does this stuff meet the FAA fire resistance test
>criteria????
I don't know, one would need to contact the manfacturer I suppose.
I don't need to worry about that problem yet, too far away. But maybe
someone could benefit from the info.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert Acker" <r.acker(at)thegrid.net> |
Subject: | Re: 0-320 H2AD installation |
> If there is currently anyone on the list that has installed a H2AD engine
> in a RV6, please respond with phone # so that I can talk with you about
> cowling and baffles.
>
> John Henley RV6
> Engine hung and working on cowling
John,
I myself am not quite to the point you are, but have an H2AD also. If you
find information on the cowling and baffles (or wind up making your own
drawings), please share.
Regards,
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BARNES_ERIC(at)tandem.com |
Subject: | Re: Octane Reduction - knock sensors |
> It is also possible that this will force Lycoming and Continental to
^^^^^
> certify their engines with truly modern ignition systems that include
> the knock-sensors, electronic ignition, and other technologies that.
> are commonplace on modern auto engines.
One clarification - I read, I believe in Sport Aviation, that going to
unleaded gas will *allow* the use of knock sensors and the like, which
don't work with leaded gas.
I'm remaining optimistic (although I'm not running out to buy an
IO-360).
EB #80131
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
I bought the wiring kit. I basically wanted to "seed" my shop with
electrical supplies. It definitely doesn't have everything you'll need
to totally wire the plane. I used all the connectors just rewiring the
radio in my other plane. Like the other Van's stuff it doesn't have a
big markup, and you'll definitely use all the parts. It has flex loom
(I ran it through my wings to route the wingtip wiring), wide variety
(battery cable to 18ga) diameter wire, some connectors, rubber boots,
even some heat shrink tubing.
-Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "MoeJoe" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
Subject: | Re: N numbers Size |
charset="iso-8859-1"
I think the rule is if it's faster then 200mph, the N numbers must be over
12" high. Better safe then sorry.
Moe
>
>I just want to be absolutely clear before I have my plane painted. If the
RV
>cruises below 200 mph (knots?) the N numbers can be small and still be able
>to cross the borders, right?
>
>Asked another way, do I need to put 12" characters on the plane if I go
>across the US borders at slower than 200 mph (knots?)?
>
>TIA
>-GV
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MLaboyteau(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Engine ground locations |
I'm looking at my engine trying to decide where to connect the ground wire
from my battery. The first location I thought of was to connect it to one of
the 1/4" studs or bolts that attach the sump to the engine. Then I started
looking at those big 7/16" engine mount bolts. Couldn't the #2 AWG ground
wire from the battery be bolted under the head of one of these bolts? After
it's re-installed and properly torqued to 450-500 in. lbs., wouldn't this
make a suitable ground? Assuming that all of the paint is removed from under
the nut and washer on the engine crankcase.
I've looked through my copy of the Aerolectric Connection, AC 43-13,
Powerplant and Airframe handbooks. Where do most other builders connect their
ground wires?
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6a N106RV
Mlaboyteau(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | David Romuald <DK_Romuald(at)compuserve.com> |
Subject: | Builders classes |
Has anyone attended the builders class put on by Avery?
If so was it informative and worth the trip? I have no experience in
aluminum a/c construction so I thought this would be a good investment
prior to starting on my RV-8.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
Subject: | Re: Exhaust gate temp gauge location? |
> I am getting ready to install my exhaust gas temp.
>gauges and my question is: how far should they be from the
>top of the exhaust pipe? I looked at my documentation but
>there is no mention of this.
>
> Thanks.
>
>Cheryl Sanchez
Cheryl,
If my memory is correct, I believe they should be installed 3-6" from the
exhaust flange. If you have multiple EGT sensors, the most important thing
is to keep them the same distance from the top of the pipe. With the
Vetterman exhaust, there was only one place to install them so they are all
the same distance downstream of the exhaust flange. On two of his pipes,
there is a saddle joint. Install the sensors just downstream of this slip
joint. This will put them around 6" downstream of the exhaust flange, right
near the further limit. You do not want to install them within this slip
joint as the sensors will shear off in no time. As long as they are equal
distance downstream, they will accurately show an EGT differential and still
indicate peak EGT.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV (finished, still waiting for a $#%^#@# inspection)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | ftpserver(at)pdsig.n2.net |
We have received your electronic mail request for a file from our system. We
are responding with the requested file as an attachment to this message.sysop
pdsig.n2.net
SOUND PROOFING AIRCRAFT
Much has been discussed as well as written about the noisiness of aircraft - inside
and out. Because of valid concerns, sound measurements have been made that
indicate that sometimes the noise levels are so high in some aircraft that
damage to the hearing over the long term can and indeed does result. Elaborate
techniques now exist to drastically reduce such noise. While time and expense
are important considerations, installing soundproofing is not a luxury; it
is an investment in the physical well being of the flyers as well as a valuable
upgrade of the aircraft. Information presented here is applicable to all types
of planes from "puddle-jumpers" to jets.
In a properly soundproofed airplane, the radio can be used with speaker and hand
mike, instead of only the headsets. You will even enjoy better direct communications
between passengers and will not have to worry about damage to your hearing.
An intercom usually won't be necessary. After being properly soundproofed,
using the latest space age materials, the noise level in the aircraft will
be so low you'll probably be able to have conversations in normal tones.
You'll wonder why you ever put up with all the noise before. The quieter aircraft
will seem to have gained quality and feel more solid and plusher. Such
an improvement should not be considered costly.
Before we tell you how to accomplish this, we will discuss some commonly used materials
for sound attenuation. Keep in mind that soundproofing involves two
(2) concepts that require two different materials:
1. Sound absorption, and
2. Sound blocking, or barrier material.
Vibration of the airframe and penetration of sound into the cabin from the engine/prop
and airflow over the airframe are three distinct effects and you need
to use the proper materials to control them. We have found ordinary "foam rubber"
and fiberglass batting to be virtually worthless.
"Super Soundproofing" Mat for Sound Absorption:
It is a closed cell vinyl/nitrile insulating material which will not absorb water
or oil. Materials that absorb liquids are not suitable because if they get
wet, they will promote corrosion and increase their weight. The mat also conserves
and blocks heat. It has fire retardant qualities and we have the manufacturer's
assurance that, in thicknesses over 1/8", it meets the requirements
of FAR 25.853b. Therefore, it is suitable for aircraft use.
It is available in 48" widths in thicknesses of 1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4 and 1 inch.
It may easily be cemented together to make other thicknesses.
The Noise Mat Barrier:
If one were to make a mat of sound absorbing material thicker and use a metal
barrier, it would be very effective in really stopping engine noise coming through
the firewall. If ordinary kitchen Reynolds Aluminum Foil is sandwiched
between the mats, (use contact cement), most of such noise will be prevented
from entering the cabin. A 2" minimum is recommended.
Finish Cloths and Vinyls: These are available from your local automotive upholstery
wholesaler in a myriad of thicknesses and colors. Most automotive materials
will meet some auto industry inflammability requirements, but perhaps not
specifically those as applied to aviation. It is the duty of the installer
to make sure that applicable F.A.R.s are complied with..
For aircraft applications, you would be interested in thin vinyl materials such
as used for automobile headliners and durable cloths that have a thin foam backing.
These can easily be drawn tight and contact cemented to the above described
soundproofing mats (or backing panels), to produce very attractive, professionally
finished surfaces. The use of contact cement in spray cans simplifies
application. A heat gun, (hair dryer) will shrink out most wrinkles.
Other types of soundproofing materials.
A mention should be made here of some other materials marketed by others. One
is a white foam material that is provided in a kit, die cut for each aircraft
it is designed for.... It has contact cement on one side with a peel-off covering
and comes with a diagram as to where each piece fits into the aircraft. This
is a very expensive proposition because all this prep work has been done for
you and you are charged accordingly. A lot of time is wasted trying to find
where each piece fits. These kits can run up to $3000 per aircraft plus lots
of installation labor.
Another is a lead-backed material developed for the military. It is so expensive
and heavy it would not be a contender for installation in light aircraft, even
airliners even though it can sometimes be found surplus. Other materials
are either not F.A.A. approved, not closed cell material or are far more costly
than our proven Super Sound Proofing Mat! Check carefully before you buy!
Installation Considerations
Each aircraft has its "hot spots". That's certain areas where noise is the loudest.
A good soundproofing job would concentrate on these places that are the
noisiest by placing more material there. However, in general, the places in
a light plane that admit sound most readily are the firewall, cowl forward of
the windshield/instrument panel, kickpanels, sidewalls of the cabin, roof and
wing-roots. But the honor of the most noisy goes to the windows! When replacing
windows, use the thickest material you can find.
A thorough soundproofing job would place heavier layers of materials where the
sound was the loudest, near the front and lighter insulation aft. The entire
cabin should receive the treatment, above, below and all around including doors.
In an aircraft that has been flying, the best time to put in this material is when
the interior has been removed. Then it can be installed with a minimum of
effort. However, an installation can be made piecemeal. That is, section by
section, as the budget or time allows, with steadily improving results as more
and more of the cabin area is insulated. Some installers might do the doors
on a weekend, the firewall on another, etc. In all cases, investigate thoroughly
for evidence of corrosion or other damage before applying the batting that
might cover it up.
While we cannot provide explicit instructions for each and every aircraft, we can
give you some general pointers to insure a good, effective job.
* Installation; Soundproofing Mat
1. Cut your material to precise size and shape beginning with the largest area
to cover.
The material comes in different thicknesses to fit inside and to fill the formers
and frames, cabin sides and ceiling. We do not recommend using razor blades
or knives. They will leave ragged edges. Cut it with an electric knife, the
kind that is used for carving turkeys. These are inexpensive home appliance
models. We use a Hamilton Beach battery-powered unit. The rechargeable feature
is handy where an AC plug-in isn't available, such as out on the aircraft ramp
tiedown area. Cut material it a little oversized so that it fits inside
the former or frame with a push tight fit. It comes with a smooth "skin" side
and a rougher side. Either side can be cemented but the smooth side is more
suitable. A dab of contact cement here and there will ensure that it stays put,
but it should fit well enough so that is quite tight.
Use waterproof contact cement. Do not overdo the cementing because you may want
to remove the material someday to look for corrosion, run wires, etc. Use judicious
dabs of cement. Use a small brush for this. You must put soundproofing
every place where the inside of the skin is exposed, especially on the firewall
and inside the upper instrument cowling and kick panel sides forward of the
windshield. If it's difficult to cut and fit the material directly because
of obstructions, make a little cardboard pattern by which to cut the material.
Take your time. Don't get into a hurry. Make it fit as neatly as possible. It
goes without saying the material is to be installed only on the cabin side of
the firewall! If the firewall is covered with some kind of decorative mickey
mouse firewall covering, or fiberglass batting, remove it. It may then be reinstalled,
but it's probably better to just leave it off.
2. Use the bits and pieces left over to insulate the smaller remaining spaces.
Material can be contact cemented together to make larger pieces, so not much need
be wasted. Window frames and 'U' channels can simply be pushed full of the
scraps. Leftovers can also be used in the floor access panels by gluing them
on the underside of the covers, then reinstalling the panels and access covers.
If you have some left over, it's worth it to glue it to the inside of the
belly access covers too. Every place sound can enter should be covered as much
as possible, but installing the material everywhere inside the underside of
the floor many times isn't practical. Don't worry, even without that, the sound
reduction will be very impressive. If your plane is apart for repairs or overhaul,
or an experimental under construction, a more complete job can be done.
However, do not overdo the gluing job. If you do, the material can be difficult
to remove if and when inspection is necessary in the future.
AN ALTERNATIVE METHOD OF INSTALLATION FOR EVEN GREATER SOUND REDUCTION
If your aircraft has 'snap-in' metal or fiberglass upholstery panels that are held
in frames, we have had great success with the following method which uses
1/2" or thinner mat material:
* Remove all such panels. Or, if you don't have them, make some.
Cut your mat materials a bit oversized. Then carefully cement a 1/2" layer of material
to the inside backside of the panel. Leave the edge of the soundproofing
around the edge slightly loose so that it can slide over the inside flange
of the mounting frame. Here, because these panels are nonstructural, and inspection
won't be necessary, a full even coating of contact cement on both the
panel and mat and then assembly will ensure that the material will not come loose,
ever.
* Cut and fit thinner insulation material to the inside skin areas same as the
application of the material detailed previously.
The idea here is to create a sound deadened boxed-in area with a dead-air space
between the two insulation layers. This is very effective and lighter, but requires
more time and effort.
FOR FIRST TIME CONSTRUCTION
Those of you building experimentals will have good results by just using the material
on the inside of the cockpit area as explained. However, in addition,
if you wish to make removable upholstery panels as mentioned above, here's how:
* Using either very thin aluminum sheet (.015" is a good thickness), or very thin
fiberglass sheet (some call it "tank Liner"), a bit thicker, cut to size of
the area you wish to cover. Don't try to make the area to be covered too
large or make the panel with curved edges or with compound curves. The squarer,
the better.
* Pop rivet aluminum "T" "H" or "C" channel,
(Obtainable from the Reynolds Aluminum stock rack at your favorite
hardware store) to the structure of the area that your panel will be mounted.
Cut, fit and trim it so that a fairly loose fit of all four sides of your
panel is obtained. The channel you use must have a slot wide enough that
will accept the panel and the folded over upholstery material at its edge. It
must not fit so tightly that it can't be snapped in or out of place by bowing
it. If needed, an upholstery 'snap button' can be judiciously placed to hold
it tightly.
Now, evenly glue 1/8" or 3/16" soundproofing mat to what is to be the front side
of the panel, leaving about an even 1/2" or 3/4" or so, open area up to the
edges. This will make a cushioned panel when covered with your automotive finish
cloth or vinyl. Lay this upholstery finish covering material over your panel,
using it as a pattern and cut it 2-3" oversize. Applying a coating of "Plio-Bond"
(or several coats of contact cement) to the metal or plastic then allowing
it to dry, will provide a proper base for gluing material to the back edge
of your panel. Lay the panel, with soundproof mat down, on the backside of
the finish sheet and cement it down to the back of the panel, pulling the wrinkles
on the front out gently. Do not glue to the front at all. If you start
with the contact cement slightly wet, you can work out the wrinkles very easily.
Trim the backside material away evenly and neatly with a razor blade. Leave
about 3/4" holding it. This creates a smooth, cu!
shioned panel that will snap into your aluminum frame very professionally, better
than in factory planes! You may just use thin 1/8" foam rubber available
from the upholstery shop instead of the soundproof mat. Put the soundproof mat
on the back side of the panel as explained earlier or, even better, to both
sides of your panel AND the inside structure for additional "Super" soundproofing.
Making a Very Simple Decorative Panel
You can simply wrap the mat with your upholstery finish sheeting, just gluing it
to the edge of the smooth backside, then gluing the panel in place. The spray
on kind of contact cement is very useful here. You can spray and attach it
directly to the smooth side if you wish. A little extra attention to the corners
of your finish material will be worthwhile for a neat job. A glue like "GOOP"
is useful here.
Larger Aircraft such as Airliners.
Cabin walls will need to be insulated thoroughly in the manner explained above.
Many times soundproofing of these types of aircraft is usually done perfunctorily
by workers who have no idea what it's all about. Without some knowledge
and careful attention to detail the consequence is a soundproofing job that is
not very effective.
A Special Note About Helicopters
An application of the thickest material available (we can supply it up to 2" thick
and smaller thicknesses may be contact cemented together for even thicker)
installed between the rear cabin and engine/transmission will result in a definite,
noticeable noise reduction. Most of the time this is easy to do as these
areas are usually quite accessible. It may also be cemented to the inside
upper bubble, seat backs and in the underside floor areas for even better results.
This may not have a totally silencing effect on the flying noise, but can
make conversation possible when on the ground without having to reduce power
or use the intercom. The best results will be had by then cementing a layer
of Reynolds Aluminum "Noise Barrier' into the mat.
Now, About fireproofing ratings
The Federal Trade Commission says that there are no existing test methods or standards
devised to prove the flammability of any material. Or are there accurate
indicators of the performance of cellular plastic materials under actual
fire conditions. Almost any material will burn under the "right" conditions.
The test procedures of F.A.R. 853.b and U.L. 94 are intended only as measurements
of the performance of materials under specific controlled conditions. These
tests generally mean the material will burn, but not support a flame. You
can get a good idea about any material you intend to use by burning a scrap
of it with a match. Materials used by aircraft manufacturer's years ago may not
even meet present day "standards." Generally, if a person is responsible for
returning a certified aircraft to service is a shop or mechanic, he should
use materials that are FAA approved and follow approved procedures. If it is
in the experimental category, you can use whatever you!
wish. For certified aircraft, a letter is included here certifying as it's meeting
F.A.R 25.853b(3). One may wish to place it in their aircraft logbook. Owners
should be able to install soundproofing.
Sound Proofing Ratings.
We haven't provided charts and graphs here because these theoretical ratings are
pretty much meaningless in the real world.
Weight, How Far To Go
There is a weight penalty, of course. The Super Soundproofing Mat weighs from 1
pound for the 1/8" to 7 pounds for the 1" material. (Per sq. ft). A roll of
the popular 1/2" X 50 ft mat weighs 70 Lbs. 1/4" weighs 35 Lbs. Obviously,
if you put it all in your plane, that's what the weight increase will be-less,
of course whatever you pulled out Generally it takes about 3/4 of a roll of
1/2" mat to do an aircraft such as a Cessna 182. (40-50 Lbs).
Such weights are not much of a consideration in a heavy twin, but can mean a lot
in a lighter plane. Common sense counts here. If a few extra pounds of soundproofing,
perhaps even combined with an attractive interior offends your pocketbook
or sensibilities, perhaps a better investment would be made in noise-canceling
headsets for everyone! In such a case, your wallet will be the one
undergoing a dramatic weight reduction! And you thought material was expensive!
In general, even a little material is better than none. Here usually, more
is better, is the rule.
MORE NOISE REDUCTION RECOMMENDATIONS
The neatness and care that is taken to ensure a good, tight fit and thorough application
of covering of the inside skin areas around the cabin will determine
the effectiveness of your soundproofing job. There is just so much you can
do as a lot of sound is still going to come in the windows. Flat sheets can be
bought from a plastics wholesaler and cut to fit much cheaper than buying pre-cut
windows. Those of you that are building experimentals, overhauling or rebuilding
aircraft, should consider additional methods of sound reduction i.e. replacing
plexiglass windows and windshields with the thickest possible material
available (up to 3/8"). Our tests have shown that there is no advantage to
using any thicker material. Plexiglas edges of this thicker plastic window material
can be trimmed with a router to still fit in the original frame slots
and is well worth the extra trouble.
Also, a fiberglass firewall batting cover fitted on the engine side will also help
quiet single engine aircraft. This can be fabricated by your upholstery shop
out of heat resistant materials. Cutouts for wiring and other necessary openings
through the firewall can be closed by velcro fastenings and many times
is well worth the additional cost and effort.
Loose fitting fairings causing gaps between the wing and fuselage in high wing
aircraft can generate lots of wind noise. This must be stopped. An easy way
to do this is by using a caulking gun filled with white weatherproof silicone
caulk. (Use clear if your paint in that area is not white!) For best results,
apply it wet while the fuselage/wing joining cover is off. Clean up with water.
First tucking soundproofing mat firmly between the wing/root and the fuselage
will really help. This is usually not a problem in low wing planes, but
should be investigated.
A noisy door because of a gap in its frame can mean the seal needs replacement
or if the door cannot be made to fit properly, try some very careful bending!,
perhaps even a inflatable door seal. There are dealers for inflatable door
seal kits for many types of aircraft and such kits can be adapted to most others.
A sound absorbing metal tape, made by 3M, will be useful for "buzzing" tin canning
areas usually found in metal aircraft. It can be applied to inside the
tailcone as that area tends to amplify sound. Very little needs to be applied
to a spot as it is intended to just prevent the metal from "oil canning," thereby
tinnily buzzing and vibrating. Even patches of "duct tape" can be used-cheaper,
but not as good for the long term. (The cement dries out). The Hartzell
"Q" tip propellers should be considered by those who wish a really quiet ship.
The noise reduction is very impressive!
In any event, we're here to help you with any questions.
(760) 749-0239
Addendum to "Soundproofing the Light Aircraft"
For Boats, RVs and Cars
The principles and applications described in the foregoing for aircraft are completely
applicable to other vehicles and even homes and offices. Absorption and
blocking of noise are the principles of most importance. How this is accomplished
is a measure of the effectiveness of the soundproofing job. In other
than specialized applications such as aircraft, cost is of great importance.
That is why an alternate less costly material to Super Soundproofing Mat, is made
available here to the reader. First, we will discuss some specifics of sound
proofing certain kinds of vehicles and the specialties of noise reduction in
the business, shop, home or office.
* Autos/Trucks
In this application the two principle sound producing items are road noise and
engine noise. These are dealt with somewhat differently. However, in most cases
the method of absorption is used. The engine compartment usually has pretty
good noise blocking capabilities, so lining the compartment inside and out
(where practical) will do an excellent job. The hood is a particularly important
place to start. Factory material is usually not anywhere near sufficient
to do an acceptable soundproofing job.
Road noise can be controlled by placing mat on the flooring, but good coverage
is essential. Mat can be cut into squares and heated with a blower to help it
conform to unusual shapes. Some pretty expensive mat is available from some
auto paint wholesalers. Contact cement will hold it permanently in place. (Be
sure its waterproof cement!). The walls and roof should receive the treatment,
again, if practicable. Void (open) areas can be closed with expanding foam,
sold in cans. This will cut down on an echoing effect. Be sure to do the trunk
area too as it will tend to resonate like a drum into the passenger compartment
from road noise. (Volvos are notorious for this.) "Cadillac" quality
comes from lots of soundproofing material and attention to details of covering
every square inch with material. Long distance truckers can really benefit from
soundproofing their cabs and sleepers and heavy equipment operators will find
fatigue greatly reduced as their noisy environmen!
t is quieted! Again, a side benefit is the reduction of heat and cold.
* Boats
Most noise is generated by the engine and carefully covering the engine compartment
with soundproofing mat will do a marvelous job of sound reduction. Soundproofing
the engine room walls and ceiling are most important in larger boats
(ships), and hanging mats often can often be very effective. More about that
in the next section!
* Other: Businesses, shop, home or office
Businesses can really benefit by reducing noise pollution. Not only will workers,
who spend long hours in the same place every day, but customers (maybe more
importantly)! will really appreciate a quieter environment. Generally, annoying
noise in these areas is caused by machines or people. In an office or business,
hard reflective surfaces tend to severely accentuate noise. This is
one reason why rugs make a room quieter. Here, soundproofing mat can be placed
in strips of one or two feet high and run along the top of walls and even attached
to ceilings for impressive noise reduction. These sound absorption runners
do a very effective job, the more the better!! In noisy areas such as a shop,
hanging barriers are made by attaching soundproofing mat to plywood squares
(both sides)!. Suspending them between the offensive noise producing machine
and the receiver of the noise works wonders. These may be either permanent
or temporary. If temporary, they may be moved out of !
the way with some sort of wheels, hinge, cable or hook arrangement. Temporary
ones on casters are useful or suppressing grinding machines or other loud noises
that occur at different places around the shop. (Or, for band practice in
the garage!) Hanging squares are also effective in high noise areas such as machinery
rooms, pizza parlors, game rooms, halls, etc. They need not be long
or large enough to be very noticeable. Hang them from the ceiling in rows (at
least one foot tall), and notice how the quiet develops!
"Liner"
The material we normally sell as mill distributors (Super Soundproofing Mat), is
relatively expensive because it is blessed by the US Govt. for aircraft use,.
(Mostly because of the requirement for the blessing). We only sell this in
rolls (or half roll), quantities. It works very well and there is no substitute!
However, we sometimes have another material, somewhat similar, that, while irregular,
is almost as good and quite inexpensive. It is heavier, is not approved
for (in)flammability and only comes in sheets, approximately 60" long by 48"
wide. It varies in thickness, but is usually averages about 3/8" thick. It
can, of course, be laminated (glued) together for greater thickness. It is
smooth on one side for gluing (or stapling), the rougher side being "out" for
absorbing noise. It is called "Liner." It is very durable and while not recommended
for outside use to last forever, could be very useful on your fence to
cut down on the sound from a noisy neighbor! It will work fine in boats, cars,
trucks, etc.
It is now available directly from us for $20 a sheet, 6 sheets for $100 plus shipping.
(Shipping runs about $25). Only when available.
Contact us direct to order
Aircraft,
1531 Avohill Drive
Vista, CA 92084
Tel: (760) 749-0239
Fax: (760) 749-6384 (or)
(760) 749-3432
BBS: (760) 749-2741
E-mail: bjnash(at)pdsig.n2.net
To The Pilot, Mechanic or Installer!!
Most of the materials mentioned are available
from a variety of sources, your common
Hardware store may have some of the items. The
SUPER SOUNDPROOFING MAT
is only available from us and:
AIRCRAFT SPRUCE & SPECIALTY
225 Airport Circle 91720
P.O. Box 4000 91718
Corona, CA
1-800-824-1930 or (909) 372 9555
IN EUROPE, (England)
(0) 462-441995
WAG-AERO
1216 North Road
Lyons, WI . 53148
1-800-766-1216 or (414) 763-9586
* As mill distributors of this material, we don't sell direct in small quantities,
only in half or full rolls, for other quantities, please order from the above,
they stock most sizes. (The above does not sell the "Liner" material, which
is not FAA approved, but we do).
* Questions? Certs? We are happy to offer recommendations, advice, assistance
and free samples, or a hard copy of this booklet. Just call or write us.
* Aircraft Reman, 1531 Avohill, Vista, Ca, 92084 (760) 749 0239 FAX:749 6384
BBS 749-2741
* E-mail bill.nash(at)pdsig.n2.net Interested in aviation parts, tools, equipment?
Send e-mail to our auto responder: infobot(at)pdsig.n2.net to receive a directory
listing of what's currently available.
AIRCRAFT REMAN.
1531 Avohill Dr.
Vista, Ca. 92084
(760) 749-0239
FAX 749-6384 or 3432
CONFIDENTIAL PRICE LIST-SUPER SOUNDPROOFING MAT
(Sept 1, 1997)
We are mill distributors for this material and supply the aviation industry. These
roll prices are subject to change without notice.
Super Soundproofing (FAA Approved) is available as follows:
SIZE Price Per Running Foot Half/Roll SHIPPING Roll
1/8" $3.25 $100 $15
$187.50
1/4" $6.00 $175 $20
$325
1/2" $8.00 $250 $30
$450
3/4" $11.00 $350 $35
$650
1" $12.00 $450 $40
$850
48" width, Black only.(Shipping is about $30 per half of a full roll of 1/2").
Minimum order from us is 1/2 roll. Smaller quantities are available from Aircraft
Spruce (909) 372-9555 or Wag Aero, (414) 763-9586. Prices are subject to
change without notice.
"Hood Liner" Irregular, rough cut, smooth one side, approx. 1/4 to 3/8" in thickness,
NOT FAA approved and is a denser material than Super Soundproofing. Useful
for car restorations, speaker boxes, etc. Anywhere a cheap soundproofing
material is needed. 48" X 64" (Approx.) Sheets: $20 Each or 6 sheets for $100
(Shipping is about $30 by UPS).
To Order: Send check or M.O. to address above, sorry, no credit cards. C.O.D.
orders, add $5.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Alan Brown <103612.2516(at)compuserve.com> |
Subject: | Builders classes |
<>
I'm going with my wife this weekend.
I'll let you know. After seeing the empenage video from them (even thoug=
h
it wasn't Avery) I thought those Texas folk should know what they're doin=
g,
so why not.
Alan Brown
RV-8 builder 2 B
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Octane Reduction - knock sensors |
<< One clarification - I read, I believe in Sport Aviation, that going to
unleaded gas will *allow* the use of knock sensors and the like, which
don't work with leaded gas. >>
Knock sensors use sound to detect knock. Lead has no effect on 'em. BUT!!!
these niosy clanking air-cooled motors we use put out so much internal noise
that this technology will need a bit of tweaking to work here. The O2 sensor
is contaminated by lead- could be that's what you heard.
It sure makes good sense to me.
Check six!
mark
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Canopy Shade and Sound Insulation for RV-6A |
>1. Canopy shade kit by Koger is available from Vans for $149. What has
>been the field experience with this kit? Worth while...a must have?
>
Will;
Walmart and probably others have a plastic shade, about 14x18 inches, looks
as if it has small holes in it but doesn't. It fits on with electrostatic
clinging, can be pulled off and relocated with no problems. Cost about $1.75
each (or did about 3 years ago).
Two of these in the top of the canopy made a nice shade that you could still
see through when you go over the top in a loop.
Don't know how they would do in very hot sunny climate. I had them in Texas
and no problem. The buyer in Nevada thinks they may have caused a slight
sag in the top of the canopy there in Nev.!
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Builders classes |
From: | n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>
>Has anyone attended the builders class put on by Avery?
>
>If so was it informative and worth the trip? I have no experience in
>aluminum a/c construction so I thought this would be a good investment
>prior to starting on my RV-8.
I attended the Avery class in about March of this year. I had already
been working on the tail kit a few weeks, and so had learned a little,
but still found it very worthwhile. I had to drive about 500 miles to
attend.
The teachers for my class were George Orndorff and Martin Sutter. I was
assigned to Martin. The first day was an introduction to the tools and
the building of a "thing." The thing was a few pieces of aluminum of
different types riveted together with rivets of different types and using
different techniques. The second day we built the kit from Van's that is
kind of like a section of control surface. My first day's work went
right in the trash in the motel room. The second day's work is still on
display in my living room. Definite progress.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
Pacer N8025D
RV-6QME N441LP Reserved
Electric Flap Mechanism
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Exhaust gate temp gauge location? |
>gauges and my question is: how far should they be from the
>top of the exhaust pipe? I looked at my documentation but
>there is no mention of this.
>Cheryl Sanchez
Cheryl;
Mine said to put them 1 and 1/2 in below. Other people told me that being
that close, they will burn out too soon. At 200 hours they are still OK.
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Engine ground locations |
A
>I'm looking at my engine trying to decide where to connect the ground wire
>from my battery. . . .
>
For RV's with battery on other side of firewall from engine, consider
running battery (-) lead to firewall ground stud that connnects
ground busses on each side of firewall (like figure 5-3 in 'Connection).
This eliminates the need to put another hole in firewall just to handle
a ground connection. Use braided jumper to connect firewall side of
stud to the crankcase. I'd like to hear what other builders think
as to suitable fastener to use on the engine itself. BTW . . . we have
materials in stock to custom fabricate braided ground jumpers to length.
Specify length and size of holes on each end. I DONT think you want to
use the mount bolts.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | ShowCtrGuy(at)aol.com |
suscribe
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Exhaust gate temp gauge location? |
Quit sending me all of this rv shit immediately! How is that for
un-subscribing????
You are a jerk!!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
All:
After looking through a couple of POH's, I've come up with the following as
a possible outline or table of contents.
After putting this list together, It appears that it is unlikely that one
could create a 'generic', fill-in-the-blanks POH. There are just to many
variables. For example: The diagram of the fuel system - Some will have a
gascolator and some will not. And what about the location of fuel filters?
I guess we have some alternatives at this point:
1. One of us could create a POH in Word and post it on John Hovan's web
site. The rest of us to use it as a basis for their own POH.
2. Try to come up with an acceptable subset of the topics below that *can*
be made into an generic RV-6/6A POH. (for example, you could have two pages
with 3-views- one for the RV-6 and one for the RV-6A. You just tear out
the page that does not apply.)
3. Give up (said mostly jokingly)
Suggestions?
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
cowling
=====================================================
RV-6 / RV-6A POH Table of Contents
General
Aircraft 3-view with major dimensions
Ground Turning Clearance illustration
Introduction
Aircraft Type, Model
Builder Name
Descriptive Data
Engine
Manufacturer
Model
Displacement
Horsepower at________ RPM
Propeller
Manufacturer
Model
If fixed pitch: Dialeter & Pitch
Fuel
Capacity
Usable
Octane
Grade
Color
Oil
Capacity
Viscosity
Minimum Oil Quantity
Weights
Empty Weight
GRoss Weight
Maximum useful load
Aerobatic Gross Weight
Maximum Aerobatic useful load
Maximun weight in baggage compartment
Loadings
Wing Loading
Power Loading
Symbols, Abbreviations, Terminology
Speeds
Meterology (OAT, etc)
Powerplant
Performance
W&B
Limitations
Airspeed Limitations
Airspeed Indicator Markings
Engine Operating Limitations
Weight limitations
CG Limits
Approved Aerobatic Maneuvers
Certification Limits (VFR/IFR Day/Night)
G-Load limits
Fuel Limits
Oil Specifications
Placards
Required Equipment
VFR Day
VFR Night
IFR Day
IFR Night
Remarks
Emergency Procedures
Airspeeds
Emergency Checklists & Procedures
Engine Failure
Rough Engine
Forced Landing
Icing
Bus Over-VOltage
ALternator failure
Landing - Flat Tire -
Fire in Flight
Propeller Overspeed
Engine Instrument failure
Runaway electric trim
Canopy unlatched in flight
Vacuum Systm failure
Recovery from spiral dive
Spin Recovery
Icing
Normal Procedures
Airspeeds
Checklists & Procedures
Pre-flight
Engine Start
Hot STart
Taxi
Crosswind Taxi technique
Before Takeoff
Normal Takeoff
Short Field Takeoff
Soft Field Takeoff
Initial Climb
Cruise Climb
Descent
Before Landing
Normal Landing
SHort Field Landing
SOft Field Landing
Go-Around
AFter Landing
Shutdown
Cold Weather Operation
Hot weather operation
Noise Abatement
Performance
Airspeed Calibration Chart (IAS-CAS)
Temperature COnversion chart
Stall Speeds by Weight, Flap Deflection, and angle of bank
Altitude loss
Crosswind Component chart
Takeoff distance (Cessna-style chart)
Rate of climb
Speed and ROC by altitude
Time, Fuel, and DIstance to CLimb chart
Cruise Performance charts (Cessna Style)
Short Field Landing DIstance CHart
Weight & Balance
Location of Datum
Weighing Instructions
Aircraft Empty Weight
Aircraft Empty CG
Procedure or charts for calculating loaded CG
CG Limits / envelope
Gross Weight Limits
Sample Loading problems
Equipment list
Aircraft Systems
Airframe Description
Flight Controls Description
Instrument Panel description
Engine Description
Propeller Description
Fuel System Description (with diagram)
Electrical System Description (with diagram)
Brake System Description (with diagram)
Vacuum System Description (with diagram)
Heating & ventilation
Flaps
Handling, Service, Maintenance
Required Aircraft documents
Ground Handling
Servicing
Fuel
Oil
Battery
Tires
Brakes
Vacuum System
Induction Air Filter
Cleaning
Required Inspections
Condition Inspection Checklist
Blank chart for recurring ADs and SBs
Safety Information
Do's and Don'ts
Rules and Regulations
ADs
Flight Planning
Inspections
General Flight Operations
Engine Operation
Turbulence
Icing
Mountain flying
VFR into IFR Conditions
VFR at Night
Vertigo
Stalls, Spins, SLow FLight
Hyperventalation
Hypoxia
Alcohol
Grugs
Scuba Diving
Carbon Monoxide
Night Vision
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
Subject: | Re: Octane Reduction |
>
>Just my $0.02 on the subject...
>Considering the special handling that leaded aviation fuel
>requires (partly because it's "aviation fuel" and partly because it's
>leaded fuel in an essentially unleaded fuel world, requiring its own
>tanks, piping, trucks, etc.) --------------(SNIP)--------------------------
> One thing to keep in mind: any additive that you'd care to
>name has to be shown to be safe for whatever is going to contain, convey,
>or use the resulting mixture in whatever concentrations are likely to
>occur; many of these compounds aggressively attack things like rubber
>and/or plastic components, which obviously is not good for fuel system
>components. In the certificated aircraft world, we have to test each and
>every one of the types of fuels we intend to certificate the aircraft for
>use with, including additives; it doesn't matter how similar the fuel or
>additive is to what is already used...it must be tested to show no adverse
>effects on any component of the aircraft fuel system or engine. That's a
>big part of the research being done right now, as well.-------BIG SNIP------
Bill,
Based on all of your message and especially the parts above, It would seem
the easy thing to do for the refineries would be to keep on manufacturing
the the 100LL since all the stuff is already in place and tested and based
on your facts almost as much, if not more, trouble would be encountered in
the manufacture of an acceptable substitute. And if "so little" of it is
being used then I would think the effect on the environment would be
minimal. Are we missing the forest for the trees here or am I looking at
the wrong forrest?
Al RV-6 Emp. and Wings still wainting for me to get to 'em
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: RE:Dynamat, other automotive materials |
Bill,
Sound deadening materials can be heavy.
Can you enlighten us on weight penalties vs soundproofing/thermal insulat=
ions?
Thanks,
Brian Eckstein
----------
>
> DynaMat and other similar types of materials is available from auto
> body paint shops and is quite expensive. It comes in small squares
> and has an adhesive on one side protected by a peel off plastic. Any
> material such as this is somewhat effective for sound proofing, but
> has some drawbacks. It is similar to our material we call "Hood
> liner" we sell for $20 a sheet. 48"X 64" about 3/8" thick.
> Any material can simply be tested for flammability by using a match,
> it should not continue to burn when the flame is removed or it is not
> suitable....
>
> Our free booklet "How to Sound proof Aircraft": is available by auto
> responder from soundprf(at)pdsig.n2.net or send you name and address to
> me and I'll mail you a hard copy.
>
>
>
> Send email to infobot(at)pdsig.n2.net for a directory of other interesting=
stuff!
>
>
> ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Bill Nash
> `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Aircraft Remanufacturing Corp
> (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' 1531 Avohill Dr
> _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Vista, Ca 92084 (760) 749 0239
> (((),-'' (((),' (((.-' Email: bjnash(at)pdsig.n2.net
> http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/index.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Octane Reduction |
>And if "so little" of it is
>being used then I would think the effect on the environment would be
>minimal. Are we missing the forest for the trees here or am I looking at
>the wrong forrest?
. . . and given that the fleet of single engine airplanes
is going DOWN to the tune of 5,000 airplanes a year (GA
piston fleet peaked in 1988 at 197,000; 1996 down to
139,700) it seems like the "problem" is fixing itself
by a pretty decent clip. Even if Cessna realizes its
fondest wishes of 1,000 airplanes a year, the hemorrage
will barely slow. The experimental fleet in 1996 was
a mere 12,852 a mere 7.5% of the total. 1996 was the first
AOPA fact sheet I have that carried numbers for experimental
so I don't know how fast they're growing but I suspect it's
a few years off before it breaks 1,000 new ships per year.
Sooooo we're not many years away from having REDUCED total
polution due to pistion aircraft by 50% without having to
redesign anything . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: EGT Probe location? |
<< I am getting ready to install my exhaust gas temp.
gauges and my question is: how far should they be from the
top of the exhaust pipe? I looked at my documentation but
there is no mention of this. >>
Cheryl-
The gauges should be placed on your instrument panel, do not place them in
the engine compartment as they will be damaged by the heat (sorry, I couldn't
resist).
The Vision Microsystems installation data says to place the thermocouples
which send info to the gauges, 3.5 to 4 inches down from the flange on a
straight portion of the pipe. Most importantly, they should all be placed at
the same distance from their respective exhaust valves in order to get
uniform readings that you can compare across the board.
Like Mr. Gesele said, get them uniform and not on the slip joint. Mine are
just above the slip joint on the Vetterman C/O and angle aft for easy wire
routing.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowen.com> |
Exactly what are the limitations associated with the "Experimental" certificate?
Larry
RV-8 builder wanne-be &
OSH $30k free ride recipient
larry(at)bowen.com
[snip]
My documentation consisted of a photo album with about 100 pix (he spent
about 5 mins on that) and about 10 pages of written info that consisted
of: date, time spent, and the assembly. A sample entry might be: 10/27
2.4 fuselage skinning. He spent about 10 mins on that, filled out the
paperwork, read me the limitation word for word, congratulated me, then
left. Almost a pleasant experience.
Your mileage may vary,
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mark D Hiatt" <OttoPilot_MSN(at)classic.msn.com> |
Subject: | Exhaust gate temp gauge location? |
What a charming 'tude, Bentley! I hope you build something plastic.
Mark D Hiatt Visit us on MSN v2!
OttoPilot_MSN@msn.com http://Forums.msn.com/Aviation
Aviation Forum Manager, AvChat Mondays 10pm Eastern
The Microsoft Network mic://Chat.msn.com/AvChat
Quit sending me all of this rv shit immediately! How is that for
un-subscribing?
You are a jerk!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
Subject: | Re: Engine ground locations |
> For RV's with battery on other side of firewall from engine, consider
> running battery (-) lead to firewall ground stud that connnects
> ground busses on each side of firewall (like figure 5-3 in 'Connection).
> This eliminates the need to put another hole in firewall just to handle
> a ground connection. Use braided jumper to connect firewall side of
> stud to the crankcase. I'd like to hear what other builders think
> as to suitable fastener to use on the engine itself. BTW . . . we have
> Bob . . .
Bob,
I did as you suggested. I bolted an angle on the inside of the firewall.
To the top of the angle, I bolted the ground from the battery. I put a bolt
through the leg of the angle that fit flush with the firewall went through
the firewall and on the engine side made the connection for the ground
strap. This way, I can disconnect the negative cable from the battery to
the inside of the firewall without disturbing the connection through the
firewall. To ground to the engine, I bolted the end of the ground strap to
the top of the steel plate that is mounted on the carb bolts which holds my
mixture and throttle cables. I covered the connection with "liquid tape" in
the hope that this would keep rust & corrosion from degrading the electrical
connection. So far, after 2 1/2 years, no problem in that regard.
Bob Skinner RV6 bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
Subject: | Re: 0-320 H2AD installation |
Hi John,
I would also be interested in the h2ad baffle info. Thanks. Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
Well, I finally got it signed off today by the DAR. He looked at the
plane for about ten minutes to see if I had taken care of the
discrepencies he had written down for me last week. Then we went to the
house to type up some operating limitations. That took about 3 hours.
He had called the night before to confirm he was coming. I asked about
getting the certificate the same day and he said no, but maybe by this
weekend. I said that wouldn't work, I wanted it today. We said a few
words and he got mad and hungup. He showed up today and was very nice
the entire time. It went very smoothly and he seemed genuinely
concerned about my wellbeing when flying this thing. I got a 50 mile
radius from the airport for the test area. I asked about landing at
other airports and he said the FAA frowns on that during the test
period, but if you need to stop to check the engine or something, that
would have to be okay. It seemed to be a total turn-around from the
last meeting. I got my insurance coverage started today, so after i
finish putting the fairings on in the morning, i will cruise. Yes,
finally, I will cruise. Cruise, Cruise, Cruise. I just hope I don't
need the parachute I borrowed. Of course the friend that loaned it to
me said if it didn't work he would make darn sure he got his money back
from the packer. All heart, this friend. I'm going to take it slowly
up to 5 or 6 thousand feet before I start seeeing what it will do. Can'
wait. Hope I sleep more tonight than last night. Wouldn't you know it
is 50 or 60 percent chance of rain tomorrow. I will let all know how it
flies. See ya. Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jack Gageby <aj752(at)lafn.org> |
Subject: | Re: N numbers Size |
Vanremog(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> I just want to be absolutely clear before I have my plane painted. If the RV
> cruises below 200 mph (knots?) the N numbers can be small and still be able
> to cross the borders, right?
Been a year since I crossed the border...last time I checked....Small
numbers OK for crossing border between USA and Canada, in either
direction. Small numbers OK to go into Mexico. 12-Inch numbers when
you come back into USA. I put numbers made from black self-stick shelf
paper on plane at last Mexican airport before entering USA.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: N numbers Size |
<< I think the rule is if it's faster then 200mph, the N numbers must be over
12" high. Better safe then sorry. >>
Seems I recall it's Knots, and it's also INDICATED airspeed at normal cruise.
You gotta have 12" models to go to the Bahamas, I know. I used some temporary
stick-on things for my trip there.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
Subject: | Re: RE:Dynamat, other automotive materials |
>>
>>Bill,
>>Sound deadening materials can be heavy.
>>Can you enlighten us on weight penalties vs soundproofing/thermal =
insulations?
Soundproofing Mat does a great job, thermally as well as acoustically.
There is a weight penalty, of course. The Super Soundproofing Mat
weighs from 1 pound for the 1/8" to 7 pounds for the 1" material.
(Per sq. ft). A roll of the popular 1/2" X 50 ft mat weighs 70 Lbs.
1/4" weighs 35 Lbs. Obviously, if you put it all in your (certified)
plane, that's what the weight increase will be-less, of course
whatever you pulled out Generally it takes about 3/4 of a roll of
1/2" mat to do an aircraft such as a Cessna 182. (40-50 Lbs). I
would guess it would be substantially less for an RV. 1/2" would be
most suitable and my guess is it would take about a third of a roll at
a cost of about $150. This is to give you some rough comparison...
Remember too, if you use some material that is NOT closed cell, it may
pick up moisture, etc and increase weight and potential for corrosion.
BTW someone made a request to our FTP server and it sent the entire
soundproofing booklet file directly to the RV-List! I hope it
really was the owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com and not someone trying to
get us in trouble here! It's simply listed as FILE, (at about
12:00 today). It was not my intention to hog bandwidth here in the
list by doing this..... We offered it selectively by auto responder to
those who had interest.
Send email to infobot(at)pdsig.n2.net for a directory of other interesting =
stuff!
("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Bill Nash
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Aircraft Remanufacturing Corp
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' 1531 Avohill Dr
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Vista, Ca 92084 (760) 749 0239
(((),-'' (((),' (((.-' Email: bjnash(at)pdsig.n2.net
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/index.html =20
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
Subject: | Re: N numbers Size |
>
>
><< I think the rule is if it's faster then 200mph, the N numbers must be over
> 12" high. Better safe then sorry. >>
>
>Seems I recall it's Knots, and it's also INDICATED airspeed at normal cruise.
>You gotta have 12" models to go to the Bahamas, I know. I used some temporary
>stick-on things for my trip there.
>
>Check six!
>Mark
>
Again .. doesn't anyone bother to read the FARs??
The section is even called SIZE OF MARKS in PART 45--IDENTIFICATION AND
REGISTRATION MARKING.
And - yet again, it's still online!! At --
http://www3.landings.com/cgi-bin/get_file?pass=5325848&FAR/part_45/section_4
5.29.html
And, yes it's knots, but 180 kts ( _but_ is CALIBRATED Air Speed at
MAXIMUM cruise speed) -- see below (b)(1)(iii). Paragraph (h) below
allows temporary 12 inch numbers for border crossings.
"Sec. 45.29 Size of marks.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (f) of this section, each operator of
an aircraft shall display marks on the aircraft meeting the size
requirements of this section.
(b) Height. Except as provided in paragraph (h) of this part, the
nationality and registration marks must be of equal height and on--
(1) Fixed-wing aircraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that:
(i) An aircraft displaying marks at least 2 inches high before November 1,
1981 and an aircraft manufactured after November 2, 1981, but before
January 1, 1983,
may display those marks until the aircraft is repainted or the marks are
repainted, restored, or changed;
(ii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on a glider;
(iii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on an aircraft for
which an experimental certificate has been issued under Sec. 21.191(d) or
21.191(g) for
operating as an exhibition aircraft or as an amateur-built aircraft when
the maximum cruising speed of the aircraft does not exceed 180 knots CAS; and
(iv) Marks may be displayed on an exhibition, antique, or other aircraft in
accordance with Sec. 45.22.
(2) Airships, spherical balloons, and nonspherical balloons, must be at
least 3 inches high; and
(3) Rotorcraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that rotorcraft
displaying before April 18, 1983, marks required by Sec. 45.29(b)(3) in
effect on April 17,
1983, and rotorcraft manufactured on or after April 18, 1983, but before
December 31, 1983, may display those marks until the aircraft is repainted
or the marks
are repainted, restored, or changed.
(c) Width. Characters must be two-thirds as wide as they are high, except
the number "1", which must be one-sixth as wide as it is high, and the
letters "M" and
"W" which may be as wide as they are high.
(d) Thickness. Characters must be formed by solid lines one-sixth as thick
as the character is high.
(e) Spacing. The space between each character may not be less than one-
fourth of the character width.
(f) If either one of the surfaces authorized for displaying required marks
under Sec. 45.25 is large enough for display of marks meeting the size
requirements of this
section and the other is not, full-size marks shall be placed on the larger
surface. If neither surface is large enough for full- size marks, marks as
large as practicable
shall be displayed on the larger of the two surfaces. If any surface
authorized to be marked by Sec. 45.27 is not large enough for full-size
marks, marks as large as
practicable shall be placed on the largest of the authorized surfaces.
(g) Uniformity. The marks required by this part for fixed-wing aircraft
must have the same height, width, thickness, and spacing on both sides of
the aircraft.
(h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft penetrating an ADIZ
or DEWIZ shall display on that aircraft temporary or permanent nationality and
registration marks at least 12 inches high. "
... Gil (read the Regs!!) Alexander
-------------------------------------------------------
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike Hartmann <hartmann(at)sound.net> |
Subject: | Re: N numbers Size |
>
>Asked another way, do I need to put 12" characters on the plane if I go
>across the US borders at slower than 200 mph (knots?)?
Gary,
Yes and no. It isn't so much crossing the border as it is getting into the
ADIZ. If your RV's maximum cruising speed is way faster than the average
RV6/6A you may need 12 inch numbers. Regardless of speed, if you penetrate
the ADIZ or DEWIZ, you need 12 inch numbers, but in this case, temporary
numbers are authorized. See FAR 45.29:
45.29 Size of marks.
(b) Height. Except as provided in paragraph (h) of this part, the
nationality and registration marks must be of equal height and on -
(1) Fixed wing aircraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that:
(iii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on an aircraft
for which an experimental certificate has been issued under =A7 21.191(d) or
21.191(g) for operating as an exhibition aircraft or as an amateur built
aircraft when the maximum cruising speed of the aircraft does not exceed 180
knots CAS; and
(c) Width. Characters must be two-thirds as wide as they are high, except
the number "1", which must be one-sixth as wide as it is high, and the
letters "M" and "W" which may be as wide as they are high.
(d) Thickness. Characters must be formed by solid lines one-sixth as
thick as the character is high.
(e) Spacing. The space between each character may not be less than
one-fourth of the character width.
(g) Uniformity. The marks required by this part for fixed wing aircraft
must have the same height, width, thickness, and spacing on both sides of
the aircraft.
(h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft penetrating an ADIZ
or DEWIZ shall display on that aircraft temporary or permanent nationality
and registration marks at least 12 inches high.
- Mike
hartmann(at)sound.net
http://www.sound.net/~hartmann
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike Hartmann <hartmann(at)sound.net> |
Subject: | Re: "EXPERIMENTAL" |
>"Sec. 45.22 Exhibition, antique, and other aircraft: Special rules.
>aircraft or as an amateur-built aircraft and which has the same external
>configuration as an aircraft built at least 30 years ago may be operated
>Based on this it appears you could display your registration number as
>"NX999RV" and not have to have the "EXPERIMENTAL" sign. Has anyone tried
>this? What was your experience with FAA/DARs?
Not yet, but you can if you want to wait another 20 years or so.
- Mike
hartmann(at)sound.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Boris <smbr(at)digital.net> |
Subject: | Re: N numbers Size |
> Asked another way, do I need to put 12" characters on the plane if I go
Last week I picked up instructions for flying to the Bahamas from here
(Ft. Pierce, Florida) and it specified large letters. I do not remember
seeing anyhting concerning 200 mph.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Engine ground locations |
Bob Skinner wrote:
>I did as you suggested. I bolted an angle on the inside of the firewall.
>To the top of the angle, I bolted the ground from the battery. I put a bolt
>through the leg of the angle that fit flush with the firewall went through
>the firewall and on the engine side made the connection for the ground
>strap. This way, I can disconnect the negative cable from the battery to
>the inside of the firewall without disturbing the connection through the
>firewall.
Normally, I'd LIKE to see a single, brass, 3/8 or larger bolt
through firewall with nut on engine side. Bolt holds
sandwitch of ground busses with firwall in the middle. First
nut on firewall side is lock-tited to bolt threads, Second nut
holds ground strap to engine so it can be removed for maintenance.
> To ground to the engine, I bolted the end of the ground strap to
>the top of the steel plate that is mounted on the carb bolts which holds my
>mixture and throttle cables.
What size fastener is this?
> . . . I covered the connection with "liquid tape" in
>the hope that this would keep rust & corrosion from degrading the electrical
>connection. So far, after 2 1/2 years, no problem in that regard.
>
>
In general, applied coverings are not necessary. When you clamp
up the connections with threaded fasteners, the pressures involved
prevent corrosion at the electrical interface in spite of any
corrosion that occurs around the joint. In some cases, I've seen
applied covers hide corrosion underneath . . . peel it away and
found lots of green fuzz . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Daniel Stevens <daniel.stevens(at)kconline.com> |
Subject: | Re: Exhaust gate temp gauge location? |
aol.com!Bentley(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
> Quit sending me all of this rv shit immediately! How is that for
> un-subscribing????
> You are a jerk!!!!!
A product of public education?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ray Murphy, Jr." <murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us> |
Subject: | Re: Exhaust gate temp gauge location? |
Perhaps we could all forward Bently the rv-list postings on a private basis.
Perhaps then he would learn to be alittle more polite.
>
>Quit sending me all of this rv shit immediately! How is that for
>un-subscribing????
>You are a jerk!!!!!
>
>
>
>
Ray and Nancy Murphy
murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us
RV6A empenage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil> |
Subject: | Re: Franklin Engine |
What exactly does bare mean? I assume no mags, carb, alternator, starter,
etc... By the time you have factored in the cost of the stuff thats missing,
and the added cost/time of custom mounts and cowl, have you really gained
anything? I could get excited about this if you told me the cost was $7000
rather than $12000.
Mike Wills
RV-4(wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
It is certified, 205HP
> nominal, has no prop speed limits, 1500 hrs TBO, and costs $12,000
> bare.
> I don't know how much a O-360 weighs, and I know installing a Franklin
> will involve a custom engine mount and probably cowl mods, but it
> still sounds interesting. Heck, if you can put a Chevy in there which
> is 60#lbs more than a Lyc.
>
> Chris Browne
> Empennage real soon...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough) |
Subject: | Re: Canopy Shade and Sound Insulation for RV-6A |
I used two car shades from "Canadian Tire", a chain of hardware/carparts in Canada.
I first tried
the cling on ones. They were ok at first but then in the cold they would peel off.
It was also
difficult (if not impossible) to relocate them in flight.
The next and current ones are a sort of gauze with a wirish kind of frame that
stick on with two
suckers. It is easy to reach up and pull one off, rotate it around the other and
reattach it to
block out the sun. They are about as effective as the clingy ones and a whole lot
more
convenient...plus they fold up into a nice little baggy if you want to put them
away.
Price was about $4 Can for two.
Ken
RV6A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bumflyer(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re:Operating Limitations |
In a message dated 9/25/97 2:43:32, you wrote:
>Exactly what are the limitations associated with the "Experimental"
certificate?
I think this is an excellent question. Maybe if I had read all the FARs I
would have known but I am a good reader and the answer was not obvious to me
at all. My Limitations consist of a letter issued by the Inspector. I
watched him prepare it at his computer terminal at the FSDO office. It was
based on a form letter file, but I couldn't say whether it is an FAA sample
or simply his personal file. The letter is two pages long and spells out the
two phase set of limitations. The first phase is during the stipulated
flight tests period and the second phase is after. The second phase requires
no further action by the builder. Insofar as the geographic limitations are
concerned I asked for a specific large area, assuming he would pare it down.
Instead he simply copied my request and approved it as written.
The letter is required to be carried in the airplane all the time forever.
Therefore I do not have it at hand. I promise to copy it and put it on the
line soon.
Based on Lott's horror story he for one could have benefitted by having such
a sample to show the person who inspected his airplane.
Let me add a postscript. This subject has been a model of the way the RV
list should work IMHO. We have had the gamut of listers who are curious and
those willing to share their knowledge and experiences. I have learned a
lot, even though I am beyond the inspection point.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Franklin Engine |
<< Is anyone out there share my interest in a Franklin 6 cylinder in a
-6/6A? I had a pleasant discussion with Pat Goodman at Atlas Motors
(the importer), and apparently there has been interest, but no takers.
>>
A brand new one of these in a Stinson just blew up and dumped its oil all
over the taxiway at Livermore. Bad form.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Prop flanges was Franklin Engine |
bge.com!CHRIS.BROWNE(at)matronics.com wrote:
> Is anyone out there share my interest in a Franklin 6 cylinder in a
> -6/6A? I had a pleasant discussion with Pat Goodman at Atlas Motors
> (the importer), and apparently there has been interest, but no takers.
>
Chris,
I spoke to the Franklin people at Sun N' Fun this past spring. I, like
you, found it interesting. Obviously, a six cylinder engine should be
smoother than a four cylinder. I'm a long way from worrying about an
engine. How to pay for the wing kit is my next problem! I have been
trying to learn more about the Franklin.
Judy Saber, of Saber (formerly with Woofter Engineering) Engineering,
spoke at my local EAA (Chapter 133 in Ft. Lauderdale,Fl.) chapter
meeting 6 weeks ago. Judy manufactures prop extensions for aircraft. She
explained that there are 3 styles of prop flanges. The most common are
SAE #1 and SAE #2. I forget the exact bolt hole center dimensions,( I
think SAE #1 is 4.375" and SAE #2 is 4.750") but I do remember that the
SAE #2 is larger. When mounting a prop, like the Pontiac commercial
says, " wider is better". The Franklin engine has a bolt center of
4.00".
This is smaller than the SAE #1 or #2 styles. She is concerned that this
makes any prop extension for this engine weaker than for a Lycoming or
Continintal.
She also said that it is difficult to get props for this motor . These
are things to take into consideration. It would be nice to say "Just
upsize the prop flange". That would necesitate Franklin recertifying the
engine, which would send the price soaring (assuming that they have the
capital to go through that).
>they have been installed in Compairs and Velocities with only two failures (same
guy >multiple times - installation problem maybe?)
Did you find out how many engines have been installed?
Charlie Kuss
RV-8 empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | ve7fp(at)jetstream.net (Ken Hoshowski) |
I find that that the seat belts in my RV6 tend to slide up a bit. I have
bought the crotch belts from Vans and am looking at ways to install them.
I understand that in the RV4 they hook them to the spar but this won't
work. I am sure some of you have installed these.
How and where did you put the attach brackets?
Thanks
Ken Hoshowski Editor Western Canada RVator
C-FKEH First flight Sept 8/93
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: RE:Dynamat, other automotive materials |
<< soundprf(at)pdsig.n2.net >>
I could use a copy. thanks
Gene Francis cafgef(at)aol.com
or :
Gene Francis
5360 Centennial Trail
Boulder CO 80303-1264
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Alan Carroll <carroll(at)geology.wisc.edu> |
Subject: | Re: Franklin Engine |
> Is anyone out there share my interest in a Franklin 6 cylinder in a
> -6/6A? I had a pleasant discussion with Pat Goodman at Atlas Motors
> (the importer), and apparently there has been interest, but no takers.
>
There have been a couple of bits in the RVator about this recently, and as
I understand it Van's was going to buy one to experiment with? I think the
Lyc. IO-360 is about 20# lighter w/access. (and so will be your wallet!).
I wasn't aware of the failures in other AC - I'm not sure that "only 2
failures" is such good advertising.
Alan Carroll
RV-8 #80177 (Wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Ammeter <ammeterj(at)seanet.com> |
Subject: | Re: Engine ground locations |
I ran the ground (negative) wire from the battery directly to a bolt that I
installed just below where the oil filler tube connects to the engine; there
was a hole in the case at that point. Don't know if that's the 'approved'
location but it works fine for me. I then ran a wire from the engine back
to the firewall to ground the airframe. My reasoning was to have the
shortest path for the starter current.
John
>
>I'm looking at my engine trying to decide where to connect the ground wire
>from my battery. The first location I thought of was to connect it to one of
>the 1/4" studs or bolts that attach the sump to the engine. Then I started
>looking at those big 7/16" engine mount bolts. Couldn't the #2 AWG ground
>wire from the battery be bolted under the head of one of these bolts? After
>it's re-installed and properly torqued to 450-500 in. lbs., wouldn't this
>make a suitable ground? Assuming that all of the paint is removed from under
>the nut and washer on the engine crankcase.
> I've looked through my copy of the Aerolectric Connection, AC 43-13,
>Powerplant and Airframe handbooks. Where do most other builders connect their
>ground wires?
>
>Mark LaBoyteaux
>RV-6a N106RV
>Mlaboyteau(at)aol.com
>
>
>
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
Subject: | Re: retractable gear |
----------
> From: Donald DiPaula <access.digex.net!dipaula(at)matronics.com>
> To: RV aircraft list
> Subject: RV-List: retractable gear
>
> gear. can anyone tell me about this? obviously not offered by van's,
but
This RV-4 retractable was built by Brian Carr, DC-10 pilot for Canadian
Airlines. He has built about 5 RVs and is quite a craftsman. I believe the
engineering was done by some Boeing people. This a/c has lots of neat
features including tail wheel retract. It is a very quick a/c and also has
sliding canopy. Was for sale at $75,000 U.S. not sure if it still is. His
phone is 604-856-8247 if you want to ask him about the building, etc.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
charset="iso-8859-1"
I'd be interested, but would like the engineering to be done by others
before I attempt the installation.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
-----Original Message-----
From: bge.com!CHRIS.BROWNE(at)matronics.com
[SMTP:bge.com!CHRIS.BROWNE(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 1997 7:40 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Franklin Engine
Is anyone out there share my interest in a Franklin 6
cylinder in a
-6/6A? I had a pleasant discussion with Pat Goodman at
Atlas Motors
(the importer), and apparently there has been interest, but
no takers.
Pat says the Franklin is a very simple motor which is only
3/4" longer
than a Lyc and 351.2 pounds with accessories. It is
certified, 205HP
nominal, has no prop speed limits, 1500 hrs TBO, and costs
$12,000
bare. Baffling is apparently simple, and they have been
installed in
Compairs and Velocities with only two failures (same guy
multiple
times - installation problem maybe?)
I don't know how much a O-360 weighs, and I know installing
a Franklin
will involve a custom engine mount and probably cowl mods,
but it
still sounds interesting. Heck, if you can put a Chevy in
there which
is 60#lbs more than a Lyc.
Chris Browne
Empennage real soon...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
Subject: | Re: RE:Dynamat, other automotive materials |
>>
>>
>><< soundprf(at)pdsig.n2.net >>
>>I could use a copy. thanks
There's a copy posted to the mail list as FILE a few days ago or send
email to the above auto responder, or I'll mail one....
bill
Send email to infobot(at)pdsig.n2.net for a directory of other interesting =
stuff!
("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Bill Nash
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Aircraft Remanufacturing Corp
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' 1531 Avohill Dr
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Vista, Ca 92084 (760) 749 0239
(((),-'' (((),' (((.-' Email: bjnash(at)pdsig.n2.net
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/index.html =20
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Glenn & Judi <glenn(at)chocolatetruffles.com> |
Subject: | Imron RV-6 Interior |
Hi,
Before I paint the inside of my RV-6 project, I had a few questions...
1) How much Imron will this require (base + catilyst)?
2) 90% of the inside is Sherwin Williams Wash primer, the other 10% is
Marhyde. Will the Imron adhere the same to both of these primers?
3) What grit sandpaper should the surface be roughened with? Wet or
dry?
Thanks in advance,
-Glenn Gordon
--
MZ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Hamilton McClymont <hammcc(at)istar.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Western Canada RVator |
Ken:
I haven't seen the trial issue yet. Is it on its way?
Hammy
26-3111 Springfield Drive
Richmond, BC
V7E 1Y9
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
Subject: | Re: Franklin Engine |
Chris Browne wrote:
> Is anyone out there share my interest in a Franklin 6 cylinder in a
> -6/6A? I had a pleasant discussion with Pat Goodman at Atlas Motors
> (the importer), and apparently there has been interest, but no takers.
>
The price is right and a six would certainly be a step in the right direction.
I know that Greg Travis believes that the most efficient engines have large
bores and hence less friction but the whole world of piston engines is going for
more cylinders of smaller bore. A six would crack the fuselage more slowly and
thereby soon pay for itself. A six with a three blade prop which I understand
is optimal for low vibration in a six, can run faster too due to the shorter
radius. Running faster means more horsepower can come from the same weight.
But there is one hitch and that is low market penetration, installed base etc.
The reason that this is a problem is that they have no statistically relevant
reliablility history. Chevy V-6 engines in RV's have the same problem but at
least the engines have a *VERY* good history in autos, trucks, boats etc. And
if the weight is a bother, use the aluminum block and heads for a 90+ pound
reduction. Of course, these have a less significant history too.
As I see it, among the aircraft engines the Lycoming fours are the *ONLY* viable
choice.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Auto engines on MWF, Lycomings on TTS
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | scott <acepilot(at)mwt.net> |
Subject: | Re: Octane reduction |
aol.com!Cafgef(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> ...edited here
> But on the subject of lead; how much of the lead from the lead-acid batteries
> that will power all those new electric cars in California will end up
> invading our environment? There must be 20 or 30 batteries in one of those
> new so-called cars.
Actually, I predict that electric cars will be powered by self-contained
cold fusion reactors within 15-20 years, maybe sooner. Even if by
storage batteries, they will be some "exotic" type like NiCd or NiMH...no
lead, but another problem (Cadmium)...it's always something!!
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ross Johnson <mobi(at)slkc.uswest.net> |
Subject: | Re: Prop flanges was Franklin Engine |
Charlie Kuss wrote:
>
>
> bge.com!CHRIS.BROWNE(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> > Is anyone out there share my interest in a Franklin 6 cylinder in a
> > -6/6A? I had a pleasant discussion with Pat Goodman at Atlas Motors
> > (the importer), and apparently there has been interest, but no takers.
> >
> Chris,
> I spoke to the Franklin people at Sun N' Fun this past spring. I, like
> you, found it interesting. Obviously, a six cylinder engine should be
> smoother than a four cylinder. I'm a long way from worrying about an
> engine. How to pay for the wing kit is my next problem! I have been
> trying to learn more about the Franklin.
> Judy Saber, of Saber (formerly with Woofter Engineering) Engineering,
> spoke at my local EAA (Chapter 133 in Ft. Lauderdale,Fl.) chapter
> meeting 6 weeks ago. Judy manufactures prop extensions for aircraft. She
> explained that there are 3 styles of prop flanges. The most common are
> SAE #1 and SAE #2. I forget the exact bolt hole center dimensions,( I
> think SAE #1 is 4.375" and SAE #2 is 4.750") but I do remember that the
> SAE #2 is larger. When mounting a prop, like the Pontiac commercial
> says, " wider is better". The Franklin engine has a bolt center of
> 4.00".
> This is smaller than the SAE #1 or #2 styles. She is concerned that this
> makes any prop extension for this engine weaker than for a Lycoming or
> Continintal.
> She also said that it is difficult to get props for this motor . These
> are things to take into consideration. It would be nice to say "Just
> upsize the prop flange". That would necesitate Franklin recertifying the
> engine, which would send the price soaring (assuming that they have the
> capital to go through that).
>
> >they have been installed in Compairs and Velocities with only two failures (same
guy >multiple times - installation problem maybe?)
>
> Did you find out how many engines have been installed?
>
> Charlie Kuss
> RV-8 empennage
>
I heard yesterday that the Franklin in a Maule at the SLC airport is going great.
THe owner is very happy with
it. A freind tells me he has a lot of confidence in in and hear say tell me they
are cheaper new than a lyc
rebuild. I always prefer new. Had problems with two lyc rebiulds. Bought a new
lycoming which was much better.
If the Franklin was new each TBO cost is less and confidence is higher.
Took delivery of my empenage today. Any ideas for tools?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Subject: | Re: N numbers Size |
> Asked another way, do I need to put 12" characters on the plane if I go
> across the US borders at slower than 200 mph (knots?)?
FAR Sec. 45.29 Size of marks.
(1) Fixed-wing aircraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that:
...
(iii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on an aircraft for
which an experimental certificate has been issued under Sec. 21.191(d) or
21.191(g) for operating as an exhibition aircraft or as an amateur-built
aircraft when the maximum cruising speed of the aircraft does not exceed
180 knots CAS;
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(that's about 206 mph)
...
(h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft penetrating an ADIZ
or DEWIZ shall display on that aircraft temporary or permanent nationality
and registration marks at least 12 inches high.
The US Contiguous ADIZ runs along the US/Mexico border, and up the Eastern
Seaboard, so that would apply when flying to Mexico or the Bahamas, etc. I
have also read elsewhere that if you cross any Southern borders you are
required to put on 12" numbers, but not Northern borders (i.e. Canada).
As an aside, FAR 45.29 also lays out the max/min width, spacing, etc. of
your N numbers. It's probably a good idea to take a look at the FAR before
you put your numners on so you don't get a rude surprise when your inspector
comes out.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: How to Unsubscribe from the list |
Well I can see why people are asking how to unsubscribe when the
instructions are so plain. I just got back from a few days vacation and
had several hundred messages waiting for me even though I had made a
request to unsubscribe before I left. Here's what I got back from
Matronics:
Subject:
Majordomo: Request Results: (no subject)
Date:
From:
majordomo(at)matronics.com
To:
denny@tms-usa.com
--
>>>> unsubscribe
**** unsubscribe: 'denny@tms-usa.com' is not a member of list 'rv-list'.
Anyone care to try to explain to this bonehead how I can be "not a
member of list" and still get all the e-mail? I'm stumped.
DJ
Al Mojzisik wrote:
>
>
> Send your E-Mail to:
>
> rv-list-request(at)matronics.com
>
> Do NOT send it to: rv-list@matronics
>
> If you just hit the reply button you will be sending it to the WRONG address!
>
> After you have addressed it correctly to rv-list-request(at)matronics.com
> then skip the subject line.....thats the line that says "Subject" and go
> directly to the body area of the message which is the big empty white space
> under the header area and type only the word:
>
> unsubscribe
>
> in the body area. NOT "unscribe" or "[un]subscribe" but only the word:
>
> unsubscribe
>
> Now hit the "SEND" button before you goof it up.
>
> This is no flame only trying to be perfectly CLEAR ! Good luck with reading
> your plans............ AL
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: N numbers Size |
<< Again .. doesn't anyone bother to read the FARs??
The section is even called SIZE OF MARKS in PART 45--IDENTIFICATION AND
REGISTRATION MARKING.
And - yet again, it's still online!! >>
Gil-
Reading the FARs isn't my problem. Interpreting them is. I've this section
numerous times and I still don't understand what it's telling me, so I
thought I'd ask.
My question remains: Does my RV-6A with O-360-A1A and c/s prop, need 12"
Registration characters if I cross (both ways) the US borders? A simple yes
or no, please.
It sounds like we are right on the hairy edge of the reg so erring on the
side of caution might be advised, but I think that the 12" numbers look dorky
on such a small plane. Hence my question.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Cptjm8kcab(at)aol.com |
thinking about building an rv 8. looking for information and advice
any help is appreciated.
thanks
joe
________________________________________________________________________________
Take me off from this list.....don't send any more crap to my address......if
you
send any more....i am going to turn you in!!!!
What are you some kind of an ass hole?????
You are harassing me shit head!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike Weller <myaccount(at)mindspring.com> |
Subject: | Re: EGT and Bently rant |
>
>Perhaps we could all forward Bently the rv-list postings on a private basis.
>Perhaps then he would learn to be alittle more polite.
>
>
>Ray and Nancy Murphy
>murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us
>RV6A empenage
>
Hello group,
Please don't do that. Something provoked the guy. I would like to know
what it was.
My first question is whether or not he subscribed to the list. It seems
rather unlikely that one could do that by accident.
Second - He walked away from his terminal, and somebody subscribed him as a
joke. This is also very unlikely. It would be to a list like we get all of
the scuzzy spam from. Or even more likely, it would be like an incident
that I remember years ago, where some poor college student left his terminal
unattended and someone else (no, not me) posted a message with the student's
of the closet", followed by some sophomoric description of the situation.
Third - This one scares me. That spam-bot (You know the one in particular
that has hit this list,I can't think of their name, help me out here) that
sends us stuff with the assurance that if you reply with REMOVE you won't
receive any more great deals, is causing this. This is by far the most
likely cause.
Any other ideas? Please reply via private E-mail to the address below.
Sorry if this isn't directly RV related, but I would hate to see this
invaluable resource corrupted. I am genuinely interested in EGT probe
locations.
Mike Weller RV-8 (under construction)
midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com (preferred) or mike.weller(at)msfc.nasa.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David Lundquist" <DLUNDQUIST(at)postoffice.worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: AOPA Pilot Magazine |
FYI the latest AOPA Pilot Magazine has a rather nice write-up on the RV-8.
Some really nice pics of one of the factory ships. Overall they gave it a
very good review.
Dave Lundquist
dlundquist(at)worldnet.att.net
RV-6 empennage just getting underway...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
Subject: | Re: Builder's log |
>>Did you mean to say Advisory Circular AC 20-23?
I see that the title of AC 20-27 is "Airworthiness Standards:
Normal Category Rotorcraft" Is 27D related to SE Airplane?<<
Sorry it took so long to respond, I've been out of towm.
AC 20-27D dated 6/22/90 is Titled Certification and Operation of
Amateur-Built Aircraft.
My Advisory Circular checklist (00-2.10) dated 15 Aug 96 does not list
AC20-23 or 20-27. The suffix to the AC number is the revision number for=
the circular. In this case "D" indictes it is the fourth revision to
AC2027
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | wmills(at)southwind.net (William H. Mills) |
>
>All:
>
>After looking through a couple of POH's, I've come up with the following as
>a possible outline or table of contents.
>
Dave,
Actually, that outline looks really good for ANY aircraft, not just the
RV-6/6A. Looks an awful lot like the manuals Beech has been putting out
(which isn't surprising, since as I recall you've owned a Bonanza, and
we've been using the GAMA format for years now). In Word or some similar
word processor, it shouldn't be too hard to customize, put in the
appropriate diagrams, illustrations, etc., provided one has them available
in electronic form (the 3-views, at least, would be real easy, just
download from Van's web page).
The Performance section may be the most challenging to develop, as that one
would almost have to be airplane-specific (I suspect there's enough
variation between individual RVs to make it pretty difficult to come up
with a reasonable specific-RV-Model performance section that was
sufficiently conservative to provide adequite margins without being
excessively so, especially for the better-built examples). Seems to me
we've enough talent here on the List that we could probably assemble a very
good set of manuals for the RV community (AFM/POH, Maintenance, etc.), if
we take a collaborative approach, as you suggest. Your outline gives a
good place to start.
Bill Mills
Wichita
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | wmills(at)southwind.net (William H. Mills) |
Subject: | Re: Octane Reduction |
>
>>
>>Just my $0.02 on the subject...
>>Considering the special handling that leaded aviation fuel
>>requires (partly because it's "aviation fuel" and partly because it's
>>leaded fuel in an essentially unleaded fuel world, requiring its own
>>tanks, piping, trucks, etc.) --------------(SNIP)--------------------------
>
>Bill,
>
>Based on all of your message and especially the parts above, It would seem
>the easy thing to do for the refineries would be to keep on manufacturing
>the the 100LL since all the stuff is already in place and tested and based
>on your facts almost as much, if not more, trouble would be encountered in
>the manufacture of an acceptable substitute. And if "so little" of it is
>being used then I would think the effect on the environment would be
>minimal. Are we missing the forest for the trees here or am I looking at
>the wrong forrest?
>
>Al RV-6 Emp. and Wings still wainting for me to get to 'em
>
Good questions, Al...the answers I have are at least partly time-related,
and a very large part eco-political.
Yes, the infrastructure to produce and distribute avgas is already
there...but as I understand it, it's made in batches, not continuously.
I'm not an expert on refinery operations, this is just a little I've picked
up along the way; but I understand that there are some complications (in
the aggravation category more than anything else as I understand it) in
starting up the avgas production and then returning to "normal"
production...maybe somebody on the List with experience can address it and
we'll all be that much better informed. You also should remember, the
equipment does deteriorate with age, and isn't particularly cheap;
maintenance costs could be the thing that puts it over the line if the
quantities aren't enough to support it.
As for the quantities and the effect on the environment...I fully agree,
and the actual measurements and research done to date supports the
contention, it's not enough to really worry about. Unfortunately, that's
not the Politically Correct answer. There are several agreements going
into effect (if they haven't already) or being talked about, one of them
being a joint US-Canadian agreement for the Great Lakes region as I recall,
that specifically bans any leaded fuel around the Great Lakes (not sure if
that's a done deal, or when it goes into effect if it is). They're
starting to go after small gasoline engines now (lawnmowers, weedeaters,
etc.) as major polluters, so I doubt we'd get much protection from the
"small quantities".
Regarding the whole disappearance of 100LL or other avgas, this is one case
where I sincerely hope I'm very wrong!!
By the way, the old "blue" gas was 91/93, so the 93UL should work just fine
in a number of engines that were designed for it (e.g., some O-360
variants, some TCM IO-520s).
Bill Mills
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
Subject: | Re: N numbers Size |
GV,
Actually, it's quite clear. YES on 12 inches per para (h) of my last
posting for border crossing.
"(h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft penetrating an ADIZ
or DEWIZ shall display on that aircraft temporary or permanent nationality and
registration marks at least 12 inches high."
_BUT_ it uses the word "temporary" ... so if you can legally use 3
inch letters (keep your maximum RV6 cruise under 207 mph), then stick-on
temporary registration numbers 12 inches high are OK. Lot of Californians
do this with strips of 2 inch wide white or black electrical tape. It
might look very 'dorky', but it's only needed in the ADIZ or DEWIZ zones
and it's easy to apply and remove.
The regs. just need reading carefully.
Gil (cruise under 207 mph with 3 inch numbers) Alexander
>
>
><< Again .. doesn't anyone bother to read the FARs??
>
> The section is even called SIZE OF MARKS in PART 45--IDENTIFICATION AND
> REGISTRATION MARKING.
>
> And - yet again, it's still online!! >>
>
>Gil-
>
>Reading the FARs isn't my problem. Interpreting them is. I've this section
>numerous times and I still don't understand what it's telling me, so I
>thought I'd ask.
>
>My question remains: Does my RV-6A with O-360-A1A and c/s prop, need 12"
>Registration characters if I cross (both ways) the US borders? A simple yes
>or no, please.
>
>It sounds like we are right on the hairy edge of the reg so erring on the
>side of caution might be advised, but I think that the 12" numbers look dorky
>on such a small plane. Hence my question.
>
>-GV
-------------------------------------------------------
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | Re: N numbers Size |
aol.com!Vanremog(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
>
> << Again .. doesn't anyone bother to read the FARs??
>
> The section is even called SIZE OF MARKS in PART 45--IDENTIFICATION AND
> REGISTRATION MARKING.
>
> And - yet again, it's still online!! >>
>
> Gil-
>
> Reading the FARs isn't my problem. Interpreting them is. I've this section
> numerous times and I still don't understand what it's telling me, so I
> thought I'd ask.
>
> My question remains: Does my RV-6A with O-360-A1A and c/s prop, need 12"
> Registration characters if I cross (both ways) the US borders? A simple yes
> or no, please.
>
> It sounds like we are right on the hairy edge of the reg so erring on the
> side of caution might be advised, but I think that the 12" numbers look dorky
> on such a small plane. Hence my question.
>
> -GV
>
GV
The short answer is you can cross into Canada with small numbers
but into Mexico you need large numbers.
Anytime you cross a ADIZ you need large numbers.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Shaun <ee(at)europa.com> |
Subject: | RE: Octane Reduction |
Was cruising the Web for RV stuff and found a page for the Vanguard Squadron
(six RV-3As with IO-320s running ethanol). Interesting stuff on how they
modified their RVs to run ethanol (pure is 112.5 octane according to their
page). They feel they have a lower-cost fuel source (currently pay on
average 1.21/gal for 200 proof). In 10:1 compression IO-320s they are seeing
10% more fuel burn with 20% more horsepower. At the time the page was
written the Vanguard Squadron planes had over 1300 flight hours and over two
and a half years of ethanol use behind them (later it said the planes have
been in the air with ethanol since 1993). They feel etanol burns
cleaner/has lower operationg temperatures and may be better on the Lycoming
engine than 100LL (but I would like more proof of ethanol being safe in a
Lycoming before I'd want to run it in my life-support-system).
A potential problem is getting the stuff on a cross-country. These guys
talk about running 100LL (pure and mixed) in the same planes as needed.
If interested, check out the Vanguard Squadron info at:
http://www.dakota.net/~schnaidt/wilts.html
-
Shaun Maki
ee
(at)europa.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
Subject: | Matt ? How To Unsubscribe |
>Well I can see why people are asking how to unsubscribe when the
>instructions are so plain. I just got back from a few days vacation and
>had several hundred messages waiting for me even though I had made a
>request to unsubscribe before I left. Here's what I got back from
>>>> unsubscribe
>**** unsubscribe: 'denny@tms-usa.com' is not a member of list 'rv-list'.
>Anyone care to try to explain to this bonehead how I can be "not a
>member of list" and still get all the e-mail? I'm stumped.
>DJ
Denny,
In the Air Force we used the term PFM for describing what the little
classified black boxes did. And I think PFM is a good description here!
(Pure F'n Magic)
Maybe Matt can sort this one out. How bout it Matt???? Al
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
Subject: | Re: N numbers Size |
>It sounds like we are right on the hairy edge of the reg so erring on the
>side of caution might be advised, but I think that the 12" numbers look dorky
>on such a small plane. Hence my question.
>
>-GV
GV,
It looks like you're going to have a "dorky" looking airplane if you are
going to cross the southern (Mexican) or eastern US borders both ways. Al
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov> |
I would like to get in touch with RV-listers in the Minneapolis/ St.
Paul area to get some local area information. Please reply off list or
Email your phone number and I'll call. Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
Subject: | Octane Reduction |
>Good questions, Al...the answers I have are at least partly time-related,
>and a very large part eco-political.
>Yes, the infrastructure to produce and distribute avgas is already
>there...but as I understand it, it's made in batches, not continuously.
>I'm not an expert on refinery operations, this is just a little I've picked
>up along the way; but I understand that there are some complications (in
>the aggravation category more than anything else as I understand it) in
>starting up the avgas production and then returning to "normal"
>production...maybe somebody on the List with experience can address it
>and we'll all be that much better informed. You also should remember, the
>equipment does deteriorate with age, and isn't particularly cheap;
>maintenance costs could be the thing that puts it over the line if the
>quantities aren't enough to support it.
>Regarding the whole disappearance of 100LL or other avgas, this is one
>case where I sincerely hope I'm very wrong!!
Bill,
I'm not trying to give you a hard time or anything (Like your the one
making this decision! Right?) But if the refineries do reformulate for a
"new" avgas then it will be just that....An Avgas. Same demand, same
"headaches" in the manufacturing process, etc... etc... I think I'm
beginning to see what someone meant when they called the EPA enviro-nazi's.
Just an obsevation!
(Oh my gosh, I think I just saw a whole in the Ozone better bury my house
and move into a TeePee!) Al
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Brian.Carrigan(at)Sciatl.COM |
Subject: | Re: What is a lumchevfok |
--Boundary (ID uWLFOP0hKhmPaQ+/6yB42Q)
This maneuver can be described as follows:
Put the aircraft into a 45 deg. climb. Roll 90 deg. to knife edge. (at
this point, you will be holding full top rudder). Pop the stick into
the upper corner.
What happens is like an inverted snap roll, but because of the top
rudder and the elevator used, the tail swings around, and the airplane
tumbles. (rotational movement about all three axes). The pilot is also
somewhat shaken.
Kids, do not try this at home!
- Brian J. Carrigan, RV-6 fuse
______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-List: What is a lumchevfok
Date: 9/25/97 10:28 PM
<< >What is a lumchevfok?? I can't even pronounce it, much less know what
>it is. I assume it is some kind of airborne maneuver, but what? >>
I have seen many completed at airshows and it defies explanation. However
the best way to describe it is a roll about verticle axis. Take a model
plane and hang it by a string at the CG and then rotate the plane about the
string (CG) while walking forward (to give the AC forward motion). Of course
you have to be standing still to watch this and truly appreciate what the
airplane is doing.
Bob Busick
RBusick505.aol.com
RV-6
--Boundary (ID uWLFOP0hKhmPaQ+/6yB42Q)
id AAA10286; Fri Sep 26 00:11:18 1997
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 23:28:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: aol.com!RBusick505(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: What is a lumchevfok
--Boundary (ID uWLFOP0hKhmPaQ+/6yB42Q)--
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | CBrowne714(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Franklin Engine |
What exactly does bare mean? I assume no mags, carb, alternator, starter,
etc... I could get excited about this if you told me the cost was $7000
rather than $12000.
Mike,
$12000 does not include those items. The turkey motor is $16000. Keep in
mind that a 180HP O-360 from VAN is $19300 without an alternator. This is a
205 HP and a six cyl.
Its no free lunch, but...
Chris Browne
Empennage soon
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Octane Reduction |
William H. Mills wrote:
snipped
> By the way, the old "blue" gas was 91/93, so the 93UL should work just fine
> in a number of engines that were designed for it (e.g., some O-360
> variants, some TCM IO-520s).
Bill,
Do you know what variants of the O-360 used 91/93 octane (blue fuel)? Is
the compression ratio on these engines the same as the 80/87 engines, or
somewhat higher?
Charlie Kuss
RV-8 empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | CBrowne714(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Franklin Engine |
There have been a couple of bits in the RVator about this recently, and as
I understand it Van's was going to buy one to experiment with? ...
I wasn't aware of the failures in other AC - I'm not sure that "only 2
failures" is such good advertising.
Alan,
Pat Goodman tells me that he was going to take a motor to Oshkosh for Van but
Van apparently changed his mind. Why? He didn't know...
Failures are always distressing, but the root cause is the most important
aspect. Lycs can and do quit for mechanical as well as other reasons - just
browse the AD list sometime. The Franklin motor is certified 1500 HR TBO
engine, which means that the design and QA have been demonstrated to meet ...
gulp... government standards (I mean this tongue - in - cheek).
Regards,
Chris Browne
Wannabe
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
I need a mail order location for quarts of marhyde grey primer, my
current source will not ship small quantities.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | CBrowne714(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Prop flanges was Franklin Engine |
<...any prop extension for this engine weaker than for a Lycoming or
Continintal...>
Potentially, but alot depends upon the material and design. I am an engineer
and I wouldn't reject the possibility that an entirely satisfactory extension
for this application is not possible with plenty of margin. There isn't a
huge difference, apparently, from what you explained.
<... She also said that it is difficult to get props for this motor ...>
The engines are being installed in Aerocomps and Velocities. Have heard that
those folks have a difficult time getting props...Hmmm...I'll ask Atlas.
<...It would be nice to say "Just upsize the prop flange". That would
necesitate Franklin recertifying the engine...>
Does that matter on an experimental airplane? How about an adapter plate? I
think the mount and cowling would be a bigger challenge.
<... Did you find out how many engines have been installed?>
I think he said several hundred, but I didn't write it down.
BTW, I don't work to far from Atlas Motors. I'll pack up all these
questions, go visit, and have a look see for myself.
Chris Browne
Empennage soon...(Heck, I've got the video!. Progress on all fronts)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Martin W. Sailer Jr." <mwsailer(at)erols.com> |
Subject: | Re: Elevator Skins |
>
> Checked my two year old parts list
. Anyone know of a lower cost source for alclad?
Keith;
I paid $123.00 for a 4 by 12 ft. .020 alcad at Dillsburg Aeroplane Works
. I was able to go pick it up. Years ago I purchased .020 from
Airparts which came rolled up and I never could get it flat to use as I
had planned. Try to get it shipped flat. Maybe the "List" has an idea
of how to unroll.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001) |
Subject: | Re: Matt ? How To Unsubscribe |
>--------------
>
>>Well I can see why people are asking how to unsubscribe when the
>>instructions are so plain. I just got back from a few days vacation and
>>had several hundred messages waiting for me even though I had made a
>>request to unsubscribe before I left. Here's what I got back from
>>>>> unsubscribe
>>**** unsubscribe: 'denny@tms-usa.com' is not a member of list 'rv-list'.
>>Anyone care to try to explain to this bonehead how I can be "not a
>>member of list" and still get all the e-mail? I'm stumped.
>>DJ
>
>Denny,
>In the Air Force we used the term PFM for describing what the little
>classified black boxes did. And I think PFM is a good description here!
>(Pure F'n Magic)
>Maybe Matt can sort this one out. How bout it Matt???? Al
>--------------
Well, I searched the current rv-list address file as well as the unsubscribe
rv-list file and couldn't find a single occurance of the string 'tms'.
I did find an occurance of 'denny(at)transport.com' that is currently on the
List. Usually when someone can't unsubscribe from the List it is because
they arn't subscribed with the address they think they are...
Hope this helps.
Matt
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Donald DiPaula <dipaula(at)access.digex.net> |
Subject: | anyone near balt/wash? |
is anyone on the list building an RV somewhere in the greater
baltimore-washington metropolitan area? if so, would it be possible for me
to come see your work in progress, perhaps even contribute some time and
effort (and maybe some shop beverages) in exchange for some on-the-job
training in aircraft homebuilding?
contact me off-list if you're around here. i live in laurel.
-D-
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
Subject: | Oil temp problems solved |
I just wanted to follow up with everyone who gave ides on how
to lower he oil temps in my 0-360 RV-6A
I ended up doing 2 fairly simple things. First, although my engine
baffeling was well sealed, the "plumbing" to the firewall
mounted oil cooler was not. I have a 3" scat tube from the rear
of the baffle which leads into a cone shaped adapter which
bolts onto the fire wall mounted oil cooler. There was a gap at
the fin area between the adapter and the cooler which would
have had allowed air to escape though the sides rather than
being pushed through the cooler. My first step was to
completely and carefully seal that gap which would then
increase the air flow through the cooler.
The second step was to clean out the cooler. (it was a used
one that came from an Arkansas swamp land junk yard along
with my engine) I cleaned the inside by filling it with solvent and
let it sit for a day; then filling it with acetone to clean out the
solvent. Then I cleaned the outside with a pressure hose from
the local car wash.
End result - 200 degrees in cruise lowered to 180 degrees in
cruise which now gives plenty of margin for venturing down into
those hot 110 degree days that you see so often just one
state away.
Andy
RV-6A N-5060 17.3 hrs TT
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Subject: | Re: N numbers Size |
> It sounds like we are right on the hairy edge of the reg so erring on the
> side of caution might be advised, but I think that the 12" numbers look dorky
> on such a small plane. Hence my question.
This is more of a paperwork issue than a matter of how fast the plane
will actually go.
Here's how I understand it: You, as the manufacturer, can set the max
cruise speed to whatever you want in your paperwork. So I think you're
safe as long as you put it at 180kts ot less in your POH and any other
FAA paperwork there is that asks for that. Even if the plane might be
able to cruise faster, it is, in the end, up to the manufacturer to
determine the max safe cruise for your particular airframe/engine/
prop.etc. If you happen to go a little faster than that at one time or
another, well, first of all that's a different issue, flying the plane
past it's designed speed, and second, I don't think there are any
airborne radar cops out there checking to make sure no one flies 1-2 mph
over the max cruise they put on their paperwork.
Remember that Van's numbers are RECOMMENDED numbers -- since you are
building more than 51%, you are the one who decides which numbers to put
on the paperwork.
The same thing applies for max gross weight. I have heard of people
upping their max gross weight from Van's _recommended_ gross weight, not
because they want to carry more, but just to guard against getting
busted if they get a ramp check and find themselves slightly over the
line.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Subject: | gear leg stiffeners |
What's the best kind of wood to use for gear leg stiffeners?
Randall Henderson
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: What is a lumchevfok |
It's Polish for "Headache". Seriously.
________________________________________________________________________________
I have been told that lumchevfok (or however it is spelled) is Russian for
"headache".
And by the way, I am new to the list and am three weeks into an RV4. The HS
has one skin ready to rivet and the other ready to drill.
I am in the upstate NY area and am curious if there are any other RV builders
in my area.
Mark McGee
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Steven Janicki" <SJANICKI(at)us.oracle.com> |
Subject: | Left hand throttle quadrant |
Hello, I recently flew up to Santa Rosa (Northern CA.) and viewed an RV6 that had
the
throttle quadrant on the left hand side. I am interested in incorporating this
option
into my aircraft and hope to make the addition of a center quadrant as well. This
is to allow
my CFII to feel comfortable during Instrument and other training sessions.
Can anyone share or point me in the direction of a set of plans and parts?
Regards,
Steve
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The statements and opinions expressed here are my own and
do not necessarily represent those of Oracle Corporation.
When once you have tasted flight,
you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been, and there you will always long to return.
-- Leonardo Da Vinci
Steven B. Janicki
Director of Client Services
ORACLE Data Center
Voice (415)506-2740
Fax (415)633-2933
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowen.com> |
Subject: | AOPA Pilot & RV-8 |
Has anyone else seen the RV-8 artical in the October issue of AOPA pilot?
Some great pictures! It author also brags that "The aircraft climbs at
greater than 1,000 FPM." This ROC is -very- conservative, isn't it?!
Larry
RV-8 dreamer
larry(at)bowen.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Franklin Engine |
I would be interested if there were a larger price difference. But why go to
all the work and worry if there's not a huge advantage?
A Chevy conversion at least makes future parts requirements laughable and a
firewall forward is available
A Lycosaur at least fits and has a good re-sale value.
A Mazda costs a bunch less.....I think.
Bob Fritz
tail done
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | REEVES322(at)aol.com |
My RV mail has stopped. I look forward to it a lot. Have I been unsubcribed
accidently? I'd appreciate you checking for me. Thanks. Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Terray and Pam Wood" <woodfam(at)voicenet.com> |
subsribe
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | scott <acepilot(at)mwt.net> |
simpsond(at)win.bright.net
Sorry...I couldn't resist this gem...
Question: What's the difference between a good pilot and a bad pilot?
Answer: A good pilot breaks ground and flies into the wind.
:)
Scott (N0EDV)
--
Gotta Fly or
Gonna Die !
--Ask me about my
Aeronca Super Chief--
amended 8-29-97: Now after feeling the "Need for Speed", building an
RV-4!
No, the Super Chief is NOT for sale :)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: New RV-6 Cowl - no swaps |
> >Van has stated that he will NOT be taking old cowls back. His intentions
> >are to convert over entirely to the epoxy cowl as of now.
>
> Tim,
> Did they quote a price if it was bought outright?
Van's told me it is $800. For me, that's $100 per pound saved, and
I'm not sure it's worth it. Anybody want my regular old fiberglass
cowl for $300?
------------------------------------
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or
timrv6a(at)iname.com
------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
I purchased Vans wiring kit and while it didn't have everything it was a
good deal. I ended up buying a bunch of extra crimp terminals and will
still have to buy some #14 wire. I'd do it over again since I dont keep
any inventory of electrical stuff.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | CBrowne714(at)aol.com |
Charlie,
<...any prop extension for this engine weaker than for a Lycoming or
Continintal...>
Potentially, but alot depends upon the material and design. I am an engineer
and I wouldn't reject the possibility that an entirely satisfactory extension
for this application is not possible with plenty of margin. There isn't a
huge difference, apparently, from what you explained.
<... She also said that it is difficult to get props for this motor ...>
The engines are being installed in Aerocomps and Velocities. Have heard that
those folks have a difficult time getting props...Hmmm...I'll ask Atlas.
<...It would be nice to say "Just upsize the prop flange". That would
necesitate Franklin recertifying the engine...>
Does that matter on an experimental airplane? How about an adapter plate? I
think the mount and cowling would be a bigger challenge.
<... Did you find out how many engines have been installed?>
I think he said several hundred, but I didn't write it down.
BTW, I don't work to far from Atlas Motors. I'll pack up all these
questions, go visit, and have a look see for myself.
Chris Browne
Empennage soon...(Heck, I've got the video!. Progress on all fronts)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | CBrowne714(at)aol.com |
There have been a couple of bits in the RVator about this recently, and as
I understand it Van's was going to buy one to experiment with? ...
I wasn't aware of the failures in other AC - I'm not sure that "only 2
failures" is such good advertising.
Alan,
Pat Goodman tells me that he was going to take a motor to Oshkosh for Van but
Van apparently changed his mind. Why? He didn't know...
Failures are always distressing, but the root cause is the most important
aspect. Lycs can and do quit for mechanical as well as other reasons - just
browse the AD list sometime. The Franklin motor is certified 1500 HR TBO
engine, which means that the design and QA have been demonstrated to meet ...
gulp... government standards (I mean this tongue - in - cheek).
Regards,
Chris Browne
Wannabe
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | CBrowne714(at)aol.com |
What exactly does bare mean? I assume no mags, carb, alternator, starter,
etc... I could get excited about this if you told me the cost was $7000
rather than $12000.
Mike,
$12000 does not include those items. The turkey motor is $16000. Keep in
mind that a 180HP O-360 from VAN is $19300 without an alternator. This is a
205 HP and a six cyl.
Its no free lunch, but...
Chris Browne
Empennage soon
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Matt ? How To Unsubscribe |
>Well, I searched the current rv-list address file as well as the unsubscribe
>rv-list file and couldn't find a single occurance of the string 'tms'.
>I did find an occurance of 'denny(at)transport.com' that is currently on the
>List. Usually when someone can't unsubscribe from the List it is because
>they arn't subscribed with the address they think they are...
>
>Hope this helps.
Matt;
I compliment you on your control of what is probably your true feeling.
After words that showed the writer either could not or would not control his
temper, I thought your response was a really nice put down to him.
Congratulations on your self control.
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David Lundquist" <DLUNDQUIST(at)postoffice.worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | AOPA Pilot review of RV-8 |
FYI, the latest AOPA Pilot magazine has a rather nice review of the RV-8.
Some very good pictures of one of the factory protos with a yellow paint
job. Overall they gave it very good marks.
I think its the October Issue although I can't be certain as I already lent
my copy to a fellow RV'er
Dave Lundquist
dlundquist(at)worldnet.att.net
RV-6 Empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Torquing Prop Bolts |
Torquing the prop bolts isn't just a torque pattern to a set of numbers.
There is a feel to the torque at the final torque value.
A metal prop should feel solid at the final torque value. That is, by
torquing to the same value a second time, you should not expect the bolts
to turn any additional amount.
A wood prop, on the other hand, may have to be re-torqued two, three, or
more, times before there is no additional movement of the bolts at the final
torque value. The harder the wood, especially the front and rear laminates,
the fewer repetitions required to "set" the torque.
On a wood prop, I usually do a run-up (mag check) and a full power run-
up, and then re-check the torque. If everything seems solid, I'll then
follow the manufacturers recommendations for torque re-check.
I've had one wood prop with a back laminate that was soft. The prop
required re-torquing every two hours of flight.
I had another wood prop that the bolts never seemed to move when I re-
torquing at the manufacturers recommended times.
On any prop, if the appropriate torquing procedures are not followed, you
can suddenly loose the prop. I know of two cases where the vibration
increase was all that was available to the pilot to let him know that the
prop bolts were breaking. One RV-3 landed with only one prop bolt
intact. The other five bolts were making a terrible racket against the
inside
of the spinner. These were wood props.
For the prop I've been flying most recently, the same general approach
mentioned above works well.
One of Ivo's flight test pilots just attached his Ivoprop and went flying.
He
didn't follow the installation instructions. Fortunately, with the Stainless
Steel tape across the blade segments, he knew right away that there was a
problem with the installation.
The feel for the Ivoprop installation starts out like a wood prop, and
becomes like a metal prop.
With the hardware installed properly, there is a sequence of torquing the
prop bolts and running the engine on the ground to "set" the blades. The
bolt torque should feel solid before the stainless steel tape is attached to
the blades for the first flight.
Jim Ayers
LOM M332A engine Ivoprop Variable Pitch Prop Sportcraft Antennas
RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
Less_Drag(at)juno.com
Thousand Oaks, California USA
http://member.aol.com/lesdrag/rv3.htm
http://member.aol.com/lesdrag/Ivoprop.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | johntate(at)essex1.com (John Tate) |
Subject: | Re: AOPA Pilot review of RV-8 |
David Lundquist wrote:
>
>
> FYI, the latest AOPA Pilot magazine has a rather nice review of the RV-8.
>
> Dave Lundquist
> dlundquist(at)worldnet.att.net
>
> RV-6 Empennage
>
Allso the Nov. issue of "Kitplanes" has a good article about the RV 8.
John Tate
RV 8 VS & Ruder
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Franklin Engine, Prop |
From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS) |
Hi All,
I've heard that the Velocity with the Franklin engine is running a
Ivoprop variable pitch Magnum prop with the high pitch blades.
Three blades, that is.
If the Franklin engine is about the same length as the Lycoming engine,
then the prop extensions should be about the same. 8" long.
BTW, The high pitch blades are only available for pusher engines, or
Europian engines, like the LOM. :-)
Jim Ayers
RV-3 Maroon Marauder LOM M332A engine Ivoprop Magnum High Pitch
blades. Nanner, Nanner, Nanner
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Rocky Mountain Fuel Pressure Readings |
A Friend (Steve Chia) just finished and flew his RV6-a.
He is getting fluctuations between 2 to 5 PSI on the fuel pressure
indications. Is this normal for a Rocky Mountain engine monitor? The
engine runs smooth at all times. Turning on the boost pump typically
raises the reading by 1 psi.
I didn't see any information on this subject in the archives.
Can anyone provide some insight on this?
Thanks
Tom Olson
(painting my RV6-A)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
Will someone give me a phone # for a mail order location for Marhyde
grey primer in quart cans. My local supplier will only ship in large
quantities.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | beech <Beech(at)why.net> |
Would like to buy someone's RVator issues from last year to present.
please E-mail me. Building RV6 in Mesquite, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Franklin Engine |
<< The turkey motor is $16000. >>
I assume this was a Freudian slip?
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
Subject: | Need more clecoes |
I need to buy more clecoes, particularly silver (wing skins). I figured
I would see if anyone on The Net had any they wanted to part with before
sending an order off to Avery.
I'll probably get 200 or so -- can never have enough, it seems.
-Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Marhyde Primer |
Try going to one of your locale auto paint stores. I live in the Minneapolis
area and the 3 auto paint-body stores I've been to handle Marhyde. Good luck
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
Subject: | Don't Fly an Extra (unless you can afford one) |
I was in Springfield IL doing some B-25 Training and got to fly an Extra
300L. Unless you can afford one don't do it! What a machine.
Before the flames all start flying, let me tell you the closest thing to it
that is affordable is an RV. The Extra climbs at 3000 fpm the RV at 1500,
The Extra rolls at 420 deg./sec, the RV at ~200, The Extra cruises at 180
kts the RV at 160,
But, The RV burns 8 gph the Extra burns 16, The RV runs about $40,000, the
Extra $320,000. While if I could afford one I would love to have the
Extra. However, if I put $280,000 in the Stock Market and flew the RV
instead I could have alot of fun doing other things with the rest of the
money. I'll stick with my RV.
Just remember , Don't fly one.....
Tailwinds, N240 the pink panther
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bumflyer(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re:Operating Limitations |
In a message dated 9/25/97 2:43:32, you wrote:
>Exactly what are the limitations associated with the "Experimental"
certificate?
I think this is an excellent question. Maybe if I had read all the FARs I
would have known but I am a good reader and the answer was not obvious to me
at all. My Limitations consist of a letter issued by the Inspector. I
watched him prepare it at his computer terminal at the FSDO office. It was
based on a form letter file, but I couldn't say whether it is an FAA sample
or simply his personal file. The letter is two pages long and spells out the
two phase set of limitations. The first phase is during the stipulated
flight tests period and the second phase is after. The second phase goes
into effect automatically after the builder finishes his flight test plan and
time period . Insofar as the geographic limitations for phase one are
concerned I asked for a specific large area, assuming he would pare it down.
Instead he simply copied my request and approved it as written.
The letter is required to be carried in the airplane all the time forever.
Therefore I do not have it at hand. I promise to copy it and put it on the
line soon.
Based on Lott's horror story he for one could have benefitted by having such
a sample to show the person who inspected his airplane.
Let me add a postscript. This subject has been a model of the way the RV
list should work IMHO. We have had the gamut of listers who are curious and
those willing to share their knowledge and experiences. I have learned a
lot, even though I am beyond the inspection point.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | ROSS JOHNSON <mobi(at)slkc.uswest.net> |
Subject: | Re: AOPA Pilot & RV-8 |
Larry Bowen wrote:
>
>
> Has anyone else seen the RV-8 artical in the October issue of AOPA pilot?
> Some great pictures! It author also brags that "The aircraft climbs at
> greater than 1,000 FPM." This ROC is -very- conservative, isn't it?!
>
> Larry
> RV-8 dreamer
> larry(at)bowen.com
>
I agreed that sounds like he is missing a zero.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov> |
I would like to get in touch with RV listers in the Minneapolis St. Paul
area to acquire some local information. Please reply off list or email
your telephone number and I'll call. Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Marhyde Primer |
Bob Avery has it
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Ivoprop Delivery Offer |
Hi All,
I have given considerable thought to the responses I receive on the RV list,
when I mention the Ivoprop Magnum Variable Pitch prop.
Initially, I felt that there was no need for me to convince anyone to try the
Ivoprop Variable Pich prop. After all, I have one. And I know that the
Ivoprop is what really lets my LOM engine perform like it has an extra 35 hp.
Why should I have to go out of my way to let others know about the
performance advantage I have with the Ivoprop over a fixed pitch prop. After
all, I demonstrate this to myself each time I put my Warnke prop back on.
Then I realized the difference between my successfully flying behind the
Ivoprop, and the others that haven't. I know how to install the Ivoprop, and
what to watch for.
If your RV is presently flying, with a fixed pitch wood prop, and are based
within 350 NM of Camarillo, Ca. (CMA);
For a limited time,
I am willing to personally deliver your Ivoprop Magnum Variable Pitch prop.
And I will help you install the prop.
(After all, everything we learned in building the RV DOESN'T apply to the
prop installation; i.e.,
no primer, alodine, anodize, etc.)
So, if anyone wants to see if they can reduce their take-off roll by 50%, and
increase their climb rate by 50%, try an Ivoprop.
Please contact me directly. If you are interested my delivering an Ivoprop.
Or if you just want to flame me for using the RV list for advertisement.
Don't waste the RV list space doing it.
Jim Ayers
LesDrag(at)aol.com
LOM M332A engine Ivoprop VP Prop Sportcraft Antennas
RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
Thousand Oaks, California USA
http://member.aol.com/lesdrag/Ivoprop.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Rocky Mountain Fuel Pressure Readings |
A Friend (Steve Chia) just finished and flew his RV6-a.
He is getting fluctuations between 2 to 5 PSI on the fuel pressure
indications. Is this normal for a Rocky Mountain engine monitor? The
engine runs smooth at all times. Turning on the boost pump typically
raises the reading by 1 psi.
I didn't see any information on this subject in the archives.
Can anyone provide some insight on this?
Thanks
Tom Olson
(painting my RV6-A)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
Subject: | Re: New RV-6 Cowl - no swaps |
>>
>>
>>> >Van has stated that he will NOT be taking old cowls back.
Hey aluminum is FAR better as Cessna has proved! We can make Them!
bill
Send email to infobot(at)pdsig.n2.net for a directory of other interesting =
stuff!
("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Bill Nash
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Aircraft Remanufacturing Corp
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' 1531 Avohill Dr
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Vista, Ca 92084 (760) 749 0239
(((),-'' (((),' (((.-' Email: bjnash(at)pdsig.n2.net
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/index.html =20
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
Subject: | Re: Need more clecoes |
>>I need to buy more clecoes, particularly silver (wing skins). I =
figured
>>I would see if anyone on The Net had any they wanted to part with =
before
>>sending an order off to Avery.
>>
>>I'll probably get 200 or so -- can never have enough, it seems.
>
We gots lots of clecos, but not too many silvers! Check th auto
responder for info: tools(at)pdsig.n2.net
Send email to infobot(at)pdsig.n2.net for a directory of other interesting =
stuff!
("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Bill Nash
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Aircraft Remanufacturing Corp
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' 1531 Avohill Dr
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Vista, Ca 92084 (760) 749 0239
(((),-'' (((),' (((.-' Email: bjnash(at)pdsig.n2.net
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/index.html =20
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
Subject: | Imron RV-6 Interior |
Re: Item 3. I suggest you get Sherwin-Williams product data sheet for the
Corrosion Shield Vinyl Etch Primer (type used on the QB kits) which states
that sanding is not recommended. It also states that 1 coat of Corrosion
Shield should be re-applied if it is not recoated within 4 hours of
application. Further, it lists a number of recoat materials none of which are
topcoats but other primers or sealers. What I have done so far is to clean
the previously coated surfaces with Acryli-Kleen, then shoot it with a light
coat of Corrosion Shield before applying a topcoat. I am not too sure this is
the right thing to do because coverage seems poor and the final finish is only
as good as the primer surface which, in some places, isn't too good. On the
next pieces I paint, I plan on using a sealer. I am not too fond of having to
do a lot of sanding after sealing, especially inside the cockpit, so I may do
that area without sealing it anyway, depending on how the separate sealed
pieces come out.
I would be interested to know what others have done also!
Les Williams/RV-AQ
Before I paint the inside of my RV-6 project, I had a few questions...
1) How much Imron will this require (base + catilyst)?
2) 90% of the inside is Sherwin Williams Wash primer, the other 10% is
Marhyde. Will the Imron adhere the same to both of these primers?
3) What grit sandpaper should the surface be roughened with? Wet or
dry?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
Subject: | IRCRAFT SPRUCE MOVE |
Some-one commented about the move they just made....
You mean the "Taj Mahal"? It has a big communistic picture of Jim
Irwin on the front facade in the front of the building. . (He has a
big red bandanna around his forehead). I visited there,in the
facility, but was advised they were not really setup for anything
truly commercial....... picture a vast Intercontinental Trucking
Facility with lines of trucking docks in the back. . Picture a large
corner in a major industrial complex. I went in, no-one wanted to
deal with me so asked to use the bathroom. Hours later of wandering
down pearl and ivory columns halls, I finally found it! I was so
ashamed to pee in the gold plated urinal, I went across the street to
a gas station! (You all know the tone cant be communicated by email,
this a joke, please don't flame me!) I finally found the order desk
and they gratefully took my order for 6 #8 PK screws....which they
delivered on the spot!
bill
Send email to infobot(at)pdsig.n2.net for a directory of other interesting stuff!
("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Bill Nash
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Aircraft Remanufacturing Corp
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' 1531 Avohill Dr
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Vista, Ca 92084 (760) 749 0239
(((),-'' (((),' (((.-' Email: bjnash(at)pdsig.n2.net
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Ride-NE RV Builders Forum |
From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Mike,
What's the nearest (small) airport to you. I'm flying from the
Hartford Ct area and plan on
leaving very early Sat morning. It's out of the way, but I could swing
down your way if you
can't find anybody else closer, if you're not too far south....... Let
me know....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Working on 2'd RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>Anyone in the NY/NJ metro area heading up to the RV builders forum in
>Fulton
>this weekend-I would be more than happy to share/pay for expenses.
>It's a
>looong drive. I'm a 20 hour student pilot with an RV-6AQ kit on the
>way!
>
>Regards-Mike Kiess
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Exhaust gate temp gauge location? |
From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Cheryl,
I agree with Scott except for the distance. My Electronics
International installation instruction recommend 2" down from the exhaust
flange.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Working on 2'd RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>
>> I am getting ready to install my exhaust gas temp.
>>gauges and my question is: how far should they be from the
>>top of the exhaust pipe? I looked at my documentation but
>>there is no mention of this.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>Cheryl Sanchez
>
>Cheryl,
>
>If my memory is correct, I believe they should be installed 3-6" from
the
>exhaust flange. If you have multiple EGT sensors, the most important
thing
>is to keep them the same distance from the top of the pipe. With the
>Vetterman exhaust, there was only one place to install them so they are
all
>the same distance downstream of the exhaust flange. On two of his
pipes,
>there is a saddle joint. Install the sensors just downstream of this
slip
>joint. This will put them around 6" downstream of the exhaust flange,
right
>near the further limit. You do not want to install them within this
slip
>joint as the sensors will shear off in no time. As long as they are
equal
>distance downstream, they will accurately show an EGT differential and
still
>indicate peak EGT.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Scott Gesele N506RV (finished, still waiting for a $#%^#@# inspection)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Left hand throttle quadrant |
>Hello, I recently flew up to Santa Rosa (Northern CA.) and viewed an RV6
that had the
>throttle quadrant on the left hand side. I am interested in incorporating
this option
>into my aircraft and hope to make the addition of a center quadrant as
well. This is
cut
Steve;
I used Vans two knobbed throttle quadrant, took it apart and made it one
knob lever. I used the one that the cable connects between the knob and the
pivot point. It worked fine for me. Mounted it on the first angle below
the main longeron, then placed a bracket just forward of the bulkhead and on
the same angle so as to mount the cable housing. Didn't have any plans
except an idea as to what I wanted.
The two throttle thing has at least three options. Both to a bell crank.
Both to the throttle lever with an inner and an outer fork over each other.
And one cable to the throttle lever and the other cable connected to it at
the eng end. I never got around to that part of it. I intended to do that
some day but it was a lot like my other plan when I was a young man. I
intended to become a multi millionaire and just never got around to it!
If you think I may can answer any of your questions, contact me direct. But
no questions about how I was going to become a multi mil. etc. :-)
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: gear leg stiffeners |
>What's the best kind of wood to use for gear leg stiffeners?
>
>Randall Henderson
Randall;
Don't know if it is best or not, but I used what the builders guide
suggested. Went to the lumber yard and got some of the trim molding that is
often used around doors etc. Each piece has a sort of elongated teardrop
profile on the end. Cut some of the insides out to fit over the steel,
trimmed the outside and length and covered it with fiberglass then the alum.
fairing. Worked fine for me, even sustained my landings.
Don't know about what they say that at some future date that there may be
some rust form under the wood and glass and you wont know it til the leg
collapses. Just check the ends closely?
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | ROSS JOHNSON <mobi(at)slkc.uswest.net> |
I just took delivery of the emp and am very excited.
Can any one recommennd a list of tools and source for such.
Is air absolutly neccissary. Alternately are electric riveters common?
If not I am looking for a quiet compressor.
Thank you very much.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rick and Barbara Osgood <NoSpamrandbosgood(at)sprintmail.com> |
Robbins Mitch wrote:
>
> I would like to get in touch with RV listers in the Minneapolis St.
> Paul
> area to acquire some local information. Please reply off list or
> email
> your telephone number and I'll call. Thanks.
>
Hi Mitch... I am in Chanhassen and have a workshop at a little grass
strip airport in Waconia.
Give me a call during the evening at 470-5816. There is a RV group in
our area also. We now have approx. 150 members so there are lots of
builders out here.
Rick Osgood
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | ROSS JOHNSON <mobi(at)slkc.uswest.net> |
Subject: | Re: Left hand throttle quadrant |
Steven Janicki wrote:
>
>
> Hello, I recently flew up to Santa Rosa (Northern CA.) and viewed an RV6 that
had the
> throttle quadrant on the left hand side. I am interested in incorporating this
option
> into my aircraft and hope to make the addition of a center quadrant as well.
This is to allow
> my CFII to feel comfortable during Instrument and other training sessions.
>
> Can anyone share or point me in the direction of a set of plans and parts?
> Regards,
> Steve
Interested to know the reason for the side stick.
Ross.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | KOZINSKI GARY <kozinski(at)symbol.com> |
Did anyone on the list make it to the RV Forum in Fulton, NY this
weekend? After flying two hours on Saturday morning and hovering over
Utica I finally had to turn back due to thick fog over that entire area.
I'd like to hear what I missed... or didn't miss.
Gary RV-6 s/n 20038 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
Subject: | 3rd Annual Northeast RV Forum |
Congratulations to the Hosts, for the running of this forum. I wish I had
attended the last two, as there was so much useful information presented.
The facilities and the food were excellent, and they even arranged
wonderfull weather.
Ken Hitchmough flew in from Ottawa, and has now recovered from meeting
someone approaching him head-on when he was on the downwind. Luckily he had
a spare pair of shorts with him.
Anyway, well done Bill Hodge and crew.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Donald DiPaula <dipaula(at)access.digex.net> |
Subject: | Re: Franklin Engine |
>
> I would be interested if there were a larger price difference. But why go to
> all the work and worry if there's not a huge advantage?
>
> A Chevy conversion at least makes future parts requirements laughable and a
> firewall forward is available
>
> A Lycosaur at least fits and has a good re-sale value.
>
> A Mazda costs a bunch less.....I think.
ad in the 10/97 issue of _kitplanes_ (bought for the "building and staying
married" article):
"350 to 900 hp, Mazda 20B, 3-rotor, twin-turbo, rotary engines $3,950.
Ph/Fax: 64-9-2988848, New Zealand. Email: 105654.1753(at)compuserve.com"
and another ad:
"AVIATOR'S GUIDE TO MAZDA ROTARY CONVERSION. 112 pages - how to use rotary
engines on RV-4 and other aircraft. $35 US / $40 Foreign. Newsletter $12/$15
and conversion hardware also available. Tracy Crook, 1936 Nugget Dr.,
Clearwater, FL 33755. 813-447-6956. 71175.606(at)compuserve.com"
this might be the way to go for builders on a budget... i'll call some engine
places later and see what typical prices are for a (used, warrantied) mazda
engine runs. (i won't tell them about converting it for aviation use....)
i'd be surprised if they run more than the $4k quoted above....
-D-
SOLD*My 1988 Mazda MX-6 is for sale, email me if interested*SOLD
My 1989 Honda CB-1 (CB400F) is for sale, email me if interested, or read my
CB-1 description
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rick_Smith(at)brahms2.tivoli.com |
Subject: | Re: Franklin Engine |
The Franklin engine discussion has caused me to rethink the economics of
operating a Lycoming. The results are just as Van has often quoted "the
best aircraft engine conversion you can get is to convert $10,000 into a
used Lycoming" he used to say $5,000 but that was 10 years ago.
A Franklin at $12,000 will still require mags $600, carb $750 used, starter
$400, some sort of prop adapter $400, new mount, cowl etc. And this engine
for a total cost about $14,000 if you are lucky of may give you 1,500 hours
before it needs an overhaul. This equates to $9.43 per hour. Whereas a
lycoming at $19,000 with a 2000hr TBO equates to $9.5 per hour then you
still have a Lycoming core that is still worth as much as a nice sports
car. And to really be fair the cost of a lycoming with 500 hours on it
will cost about $10,000-$14,000.
The Stinson 108 that originally came with Franklins have mostly all been
converted to Lycomings, makes you wonder why.
This was not written to be critical of Franklins or any other aircraft
engine, but only to express my pleasure and fortune of flying behind a
Lycoming. My partner and have a 0-360 that we bought as a core and had
overhauled by Larry Brown Aviation in Tulsa. We are using a $300 Sterba
Prop that performs flawlessly even without the free repitch that he
offers. For a total cost of approximately $14,000 ($7.00 per hour with
prop) it runs great, is very smooth and does not go to automatic rough when
crossing mountains or water. And any A&P knows how to fix it.
Which brings me to the original question I wrote this message for.
What is the recommended, or most popular method of operating the boost
pump? Common sense tells me to run it anytime you don't want to depend on
the mechanical pump to keep your engine running so we run it anytime below
1000 feet agl. We have heard that the Cherokee owners manual does not
advise using it for takeoffs.
All suggestions and comments are very welcome.
And remember, even if it took twice as long it would be worth it!
Rick
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Keith Warfield <kpwarfield(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: Marhyde Primer |
chester razer wrote:
Will someone give me a phone # for a mail order location for Marhyde grey primer
in quart cans.
Chet,
Check with Sherwin Williams. My local distributor carrys the Marhyde primer.
Although I've just switched to the Sherwin Williams brand of "self etching gray
primer" and don't know how good it is, I've been assured by the salesman I deal
with, and trust, that it is "as good or better" than the Marhydye brand. Big
difference in price, Marhydye $17.00 per 19 oz spray can, Sherwin Williams $5.00
per 15 oz can. Both are also available in ready to spray quart cans also, which
is
even lower cost per oz.
Keith Warfield
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
charset="iso-8859-1"
Rick,
The Stinsons that came with the Franklin got converted to Lycomings
after the Franklin company and tooling were sold lock, stock and barrel
to the state aircraft industry in Poland sometime in the 60's. Parts
became harder and harder to get, so the conversion looked good to many
folks. At least that is the story I was told (and read about in the
Aviation Consumer).
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
<<<<<<......The Stinson 108 that originally came with Franklins
have mostly all been
converted to Lycomings, makes you wonder why.....>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< I read a prior message in the RV archives which mentioned you have made
some caps for the RV-6/6A Sliding canopys. I would sure like to purchase
one if
you still have some. I just finished putting my rear skirts on my sliding
canopy. If you can sell me one, please give me an address that I can mail
the money too. >>
Ron-
Yes, I still have 5 of them from the first production run of 50. If these
sell out, I will have 50 more made. So don't wait. Send $10 (includes
domestic shipping and handling) and your shipping address to Gary VanRemortel
1963 Badgerwood Ln, Milpitas, CA 95035. As soon as I have your check, it
will be in the U.S. Mail.
Thx,
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bumflyer(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Left hand throttle quadrant |
In a message dated 9/29/97 0:01:02, you wrote:
>This is to allow
>my CFII to feel comfortable during Instrument and other training sessions.
This is a very personal thing and that's the joy of building a personal
airplane so good luck and have fun. However for what it's worth, here is my
thinking:
I did a bit of research and looked in to many schemes to get a dual throttle
set up so I could fly with the stick in my right hand and the throttle in the
left since I had been doing that for so long.
As the engineering and building complexity grew, and I saw the added building
time looming in front of me, I decided to invest in a little pure research.
I went up in an RV-6 and flew it left handed for a while. My discovery was
it took about a minute to get accustomed to this. There are a lot of RV
flyers out there flying left handed and it is not a problem. Please consider
setting it up per the plans and I guarantee you a CFII would not have a
problem with it after a few minutes of familiarization.
After 40 hours or so, I finally flew my plane from the right seat to make
sure I could see every thing from the right seat. I was amazed to catch
myself switching to the left hand as it now felt more "natural". Also the
other two RV-6 pilots who have flown with me did the same thing!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken Brown <kbrown(at)stellcom.com> |
Subject: | Re: Franklin Engine |
>
>
><< The turkey motor is $16000. >>
>
>I assume this was a Freudian slip?
No, a Freudian slip is when you say one thing, but mean your mother. :-)
-K-
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
Subject: | Re: Franklin Engine |
> Whereas a
> lycoming at $19,000 with a 2000hr TBO equates to $9.5 per hour then you
> still have a Lycoming core > Rick
>
If you treat that Lyc. nicely you'll get more than 2000 Hrs. The O-360
that just came out of '85W had 2700 on the bottom end and 1900 on the
top. The shop that OHed it said the bottom looked like new. The crank
has over 6000 Hrs. on it. It was within _new_ limits. We change the
oil every 50 Hrs and fly by the MP guage (25" max for climb, 23" max
for cruze). We paid $14K for the OH, so that works out to about 5
bucks/Hr. Show me any other mill that will deliver thas sort of bang
for the buck _and_ reliability and I'll buy it.
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil> |
Subject: | Re: Don't Fly an Extra (unless you can afford one) |
Doug,
Saw the article on your RV in Sport Pilot. Nice photography, nice plane. I
now have the centerspread hanging on the wall in my office to show the
curious passers by what it is I am building at home.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
>I was in Springfield IL doing some B-25 Training and got to fly an Extra
>300L. I'll stick with my RV.
>
>Just remember , Don't fly one.....
>
>Tailwinds, N240 the pink panther
>Doug Rozendaal
>dougr(at)petroblend.com
>www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
Subject: | Re: Imron RV-6 Interior |
Glenn:
SInce I painted my RV-6 interior with Impron, I think I can answer your
questions.
>1) How much Imron will this require (base + catilyst)?
I used two quarts but I was pretty sloppy. (That's two 'quarts' of paint
plus a pint of activator. Note that each quart container of imron is not
full. By saying "two quarts", I mean to quarts of mixed, ready-to-shoot
paint. Buy two quarts of paint and a pint of activator.)
>2) 90% of the inside is Sherwin Williams Wash primer, the other 10% is
>Marhyde. Will the Imron adhere the same to both of these primers?
I suspect that the Sherwin WIlliams primer will be OK, as it is a lot like
Veriprime, which is one of the recommended primers for Imron. You will
probably want to rough up the Marhyde a bit though.
>
>3) What grit sandpaper should the surface be roughened with? Wet or
>dry?
400 grit wet. Anything courser will leave sand scratchess when the paint
cures.
I assume you know about the isocyanate in Imron and the need for a
supplied-air respirator anytime you shoot Imron, so I won't go into detail
on the subject.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
cowling
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough) |
Subject: | Re: 3rd Annual Northeast RV Forum |
John Cocker wrote:
Ken Hitchmough flew in from Ottawa, and has now recovered from meeting
someone approaching him head-on when he was on the downwind. Luckily he had
a spare pair of shorts with him.
Just to mention that this WASN'T another RV.
The fly in was great, lots of good conversation and some fine examples of RVs.
I should also
mention that I've never seen a harder working guy than Bill Benedict...every time
I looked he was
taxying with another potential builder for a tryout in the RV8. Then again, maybe
it wasn't work
after all...the '8 just looked and flew like a dream....kinda wet my appetite for
building again,
especially now I know there's a trike version in the works.
Well done organisers.
Ken
RV6A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric) |
Subject: | Tank baffle rivets |
Hi Gang,
Just wanted to ask before I jumped. Van says to countersink the row of
rivets that attach the rear of the tank skin to the baffle (last bit o'
riveting in the tank sealing operation). Is there any reason I should not
dimple them? I much prefer the holding power of dimpled skins but I sure
don't want to screw it up now. Thanks in advance.
Eric Henson
Dana Point, CA
ehenson(at)cldwell.attmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | ShelbyRV6A(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: AOPA Pilot review of RV-8 |
A couple of items I question. $40,000 complete with vision micro, constant
speed etc. ????!? 1050 lbs. 172 knots.
The engine must have been fairly cheap and pumped.
Shelby
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rick and Barbara Osgood <NoSpamrandbosgood(at)sprintmail.com> |
ROSS JOHNSON wrote:
>
> I just took delivery of the emp and am very excited.
> Can any one recommennd a list of tools and source for such.
> Is air absolutly neccissary. Alternately are electric riveters common?
>
> If not I am looking for a quiet compressor.
> Thank you very much.
>
I would talk to Avery's in Texas, Good guy, good tools, If you ask you
can get a slight discount on the first order.
Air is a must..... It is interesting how few times you will use it
compared to the total time of building, but you do need it.
Good luck
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
Subject: | First Flight N506RV |
Listers,
The day that we all work towards came for me this past Saturday. I flew
N506RV, my RV-6A, for it's maiden flight. I wish I could put into words the
feeling on initial climb out in an aircraft that I built myself. Those who
have been there before know what I'm talking about, for those still under
construction, YES it was worth the sacrifices over the past 4 1/2 years.
This is one neat plane.
Three "problems" appeared during the flight. First, the C/S prop needs some
slight adjustments. The engine oversped by about 30 RPM's (gotta love the
digital display and warning on the RMI engine monitor). Second, the left
fuel cap needs to be tightened as some fuel spilled out the cap. Third,
the fuel pressure dropped to 1 psi with the boost pump off. The alarm went
off on the engine monitor and I immediately landed. After speaking with
Van's, this is normal and has not caused any problems. Low fuel pressure
occurs in about 20% of the RV's when flying with full tanks. Some fuel gets
into the vent tube and results in the low pressure. According to Lycoming,
1/2 psi is the minimum.
Some details:
Aircraft: RV-6A
Project Started: 4/20/93, at the age of 23
First Flight: 9/27/97, at 28
Engine: Lycoming O-320 (from Van's)
Prop: Hartzell (from Van's)
Canopy: Tip-Up
Panel: "basic IFR"
Hardest Parts: getting started initially and painting
Looking back on this project, I have no regrets at all. Sure, I had the
days where I said, "Why did I start this %^&^&% project?!?" With the
friends that I've made, skills learned and finished product, I wouldn't
change a thing.
I'll keep the list updated on the flight tests. 1/2 hour down, 24.5 to go :)
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying .... Yippee
(Marquart Charger plans on order :)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain Fuel Pressure Readings |
>A Friend (Steve Chia) just finished and flew his RV6-a.
>
>He is getting fluctuations between 2 to 5 PSI on the fuel pressure
>indications. Is this normal for a Rocky Mountain engine monitor? The
>engine runs smooth at all times. Turning on the boost pump typically
>raises the reading by 1 psi.
>
>I didn't see any information on this subject in the archives.
>
>Can anyone provide some insight on this?
>
>Thanks
>Tom Olson
>
Tom,
Just flew my RV-6A for the first time :)) I landed after 30 minutes as the
RMI engine monitor indicated 1 psi (my alarm point) with the boost pump off.
With the boost pump on, it rose to 4 psi. I had full tanks. According to
Van's, this happens frequently with full tanks. Some fuel gets into the
vent line and kind of blocks the vent a little. I asked if this ever caused
an engine failure and was told that if that ever happened, the fuel system
would be immediately redesigned. In the Lycoming operating manual, 1/2 psi
is the minimum. If this doesn't help, call Van's. I initially thought
there were major problems with my fuel system. They were very helpful in
diagnosing the problem and assuring me that what I was seeing in flight was
normal given the circumstances (full fuel). As always, keep the boost pump
on at low altitudes.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying..... Yippee
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Subject: | prototype rv-3 photos wanted |
I can't believe I spent the whole week at Oshkosh and didn't get any
photos of the prototype RV-3 N17RV sitting there at the entrance to the
RV parking area. I need one to cap off the article on the restoration
project on the Home Wing Home Page. If anyone has photos and access to
a scanner, could you scan 1 or 2 and email them to me (PRIVATELY)? I'd
sure appreciate it.
Or if you are in the VAF Home Wing group, maybe just bring it to the
meeting?
Thanks in advance.
Randall Henderson
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | mauser(at)claris.com (Richard Chandler) |
Subject: | Re: Don't Fly an Extra (unless you can afford one) |
>
> I was in Springfield IL doing some B-25 Training and got to fly an
> Extra 300L. Unless you can afford one don't do it! What a machine.
>
> Before the flames all start flying, let me tell you the closest thing
> to it that is affordable is an RV. The Extra climbs at 3000 fpm the RV
> at 1500, The Extra rolls at 420 deg./sec, the RV at ~200, The
> Extra cruises at 180 kts the RV at 160,
>
> But, The RV burns 8 gph the Extra burns 16, The RV runs about $40,000,
> the Extra $320,000. While if I could afford one I would love to have
> the Extra. However, if I put $280,000 in the Stock Market and flew the
> RV instead I could have alot of fun doing other things with the rest
> of the money. I'll stick with my RV.
So in other words, you just don't have the extra money? :-)
(Personally, I'm more jealous of you getting time in a B-25.)
--
Richard Chandler
RV-6: Garage bought and being finished, saving for tools and tail kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: AOPA Pilot review of RV-8 |
Had a chance to ride in a RV-8 sept 21, at Mason, Mi. It was great did loops
and
barrel rolls. Bill Benidict was flying and he gave me the chance to take the
controls.
It was love at first flight and I can not forget the thrill. RV-8 wannabe,
see how deep
the pockets are, it will happen .
Randy Sproat
HOB1234(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
1) what would be an appropriate solution to prep vari-prime for painting? (remove
fingerprints etc.)
2) Would it be advantagous to use lock-tite on elevator rod ends?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ray Murphy, Jr." <murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us> |
Subject: | Re: Franklin Engine |
I am a part owner of a Cherokee and the owners manual says to use boost pump
for take off and for landings.
>Which brings me to the original question I wrote this message for.
>What is the recommended, or most popular method of operating the boost
>pump? Common sense tells me to run it anytime you don't want to depend on
>the mechanical pump to keep your engine running so we run it anytime below
>1000 feet agl. We have heard that the Cherokee owners manual does not
>advise using it for takeoffs.
>All suggestions and comments are very welcome.
>And remember, even if it took twice as long it would be worth it!
>Rick
>Rick
Ray and Nancy Murphy
murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us
RV6A empenage
raft and hope to make the addition of a center quadrant as
well. This is to allow
> > my CFII to feel comfortable during Instrument and other training
sessions.
> >
> > Can anyone share or point me in the direction of a set of plans and
parts?
> > Regards,
> > Steve
>
> Interested to know the reason for the side stick.
> Ross.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Doug Rozendaal (AKA Pink Panther) |
Doug,
Just a quick note to say congrads on the nice article and beautifull
pictures in Sport Pilot. These are by far some of the best in flight RV
pictures ive seen yet. Not everyone gets a chance to fly with the heavy iron
(P51)! Looks like fun.
Ryan B. RV4 131RB
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "JOHN CRATE" <JOHN.CRATE(at)encode.com> |
I am assembling the rear spar using Frank Justice's assembly notes (from the
Hovan Web Page) as a supplement to Van's construction manual. In these
notes it mentions marking and cutting the fuselage skin clearance notch in
the W-607D doubler as per revision 10, drawing #14. My drawing #14 only
shows revision 1 thru 8. What are revisions 9 & 10, and do I need to
incorporate them at this time.
John Crate
rv-6a
Hope to get wings in jig soon!
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Tip Up Canopy Presentation |
As previuosly promised, all of you whom are interested and might have got the
generic LP Aero *.awd (fax files) and desire more.
Fresh from the 3rd annual RV forum held in Oswego NY. You may e'mail a
request to McManD(at)aol.com asking for a e'mail back to you with a file
attached.
Said file is the presentation that I did up for my part of the RV forum which
is in fax format. It will be labeled Tipup1.awd (extensionis a file to be
opened up with a fax viewer)
As it states I do not claim to be an expert, just experienced. And judging
from the interest in the visual aid I took to the seminar (my first cracked
canopy) the lessons were appreciated.
Respectfully
David McManmon,
Cicero NY, RV6 tip up, 0320H2AD, canopy #2 ready to glass in completely now.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Engine ground locations |
>
>I ran the ground (negative) wire from the battery directly to a bolt that I
>installed just below where the oil filler tube connects to the engine; there
>was a hole in the case at that point. Don't know if that's the 'approved'
>location but it works fine for me. I then ran a wire from the engine back
>to the firewall to ground the airframe. My reasoning was to have the
>shortest path for the starter current.
I believe this is preferable to attaching to any "engine mount bolts" . . .
an independent ground connection with no structural responsabilities.
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Craig Nelson <cgn(at)pond.net> |
Could some one off list send me the address for the Yeller Pages.
I cleaned up my computer address book by mistake one day.
Thank you!
Craig Nelson
serial # 25101
cgn(at)pond.net
Eugene, OR
building left wing
PRO SEALING TANK
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bob Newman" <bn(at)crosslink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Franklin Engine |
> The Stinson 108 that originally came with Franklins have mostly all been
> converted to Lycomings, makes you wonder why.
No No No...There was a time long ago when a swap from the stock 165
HP Franklin to a Lycoming (190 HP if I remember correctly) was
available, but the conversion added a lot of weight and it
was not very successful. The majority of Stinsons still fly behind
either a 150 or 165 HP Franklin. A handful do have other
conversions.
The 6 cylinder Franklin is a real pleasure to fly behind. It is an
exceptionally smooth powerplant...the 4 banger Lycoming is not in the
same league at all. If the new ones are still like the 165, they
have a neat little cover that is easily removed to allow inspection
of the bottom end. It seems to me that if you compare prices of
brand new certified engines, rather than new Franklin vs rebuilt
something else , the engine is worthy of consideration.
Try a ride in a Stinson 108 or maybe a Maule with a 220 HP Franklin
if you can find one.
Bob Newman
bn(at)crosslink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
Subject: | Re: Don't Fly an Extra (unless you can afford one) |
---------
> From: Mike Wills <nosc.mil!willsm(at)matronics.com>
>
> Doug,
> Saw the article on your RV in Sport Pilot. Nice photography, nice plane.
I
> now have the centerspread hanging on the wall in my office to show the
> curious passers by what it is I am building at home.
Just so everyone knows, I did not paint my airplane pink! I bought it that
way. I did however put the panther on the tail. It was cheaper than a new
paint job. And now that It has the panther on it it is really a lot of
fun. At one Airshow I found it with a puddle of pink oil (pepto bismol)
under it.
Thank you for the kind words
Tailwinds, N240 the pink panther
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | alexpeterson <alexpeterson(at)MCI2000.com> |
Subject: | Re: Tank baffle rivets |
----------
> Just wanted to ask before I jumped. Van says to countersink the row of
> rivets that attach the rear of the tank skin to the baffle (last bit o'
> riveting in the tank sealing operation). Is there any reason I should not
> dimple them? I much prefer the holding power of dimpled skins but I sure
> don't want to screw it up now. Thanks in advance.
If it is dimpled, it may be hard to push into place.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | TNguyen500(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Tank baffle rivets |
<< Van says to countersink the row of
rivets that attach the rear of the tank skin to the baffle (last bit o'
riveting in the tank sealing operation). Is there any reason I should not
dimple them? >>
Eric,
You need to countersink that row of rivets that attach the rear of the tank
skin to the baffle. I am currently working on my fuel tank and plan to do
just that.
T.Nguyen
RV-6A Fuel Tank
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Oswego RV Forum (unofficial) |
Unofficial Report:
I attended the RV forum on both Friday evening and Saturday. My review would
go as (counts might be off +/-3%):
Friday PM kick off, Burger BBQ, pre registration, poor weather, 2 RV's made
it, 1 RV6 from Canada and 1 yellow RV8 from ???? well you must know where.
As well as 2 or 3 spam cans and 3 brave souls to camp out on airport grounds
in 4 wheeled land based vehicles. There was also @20 more who drove in to
motel stay, for early am start up.
Later we went out in a small group, had a adult beverage and talked about
planes. Life is good.
Early Saturday AM. FOG, and yup you could hear the planes circling above and
a RV IFR doing missed approaches. The cover was thick ceiling was low. By
9:00? as anybody expect it started to clear up and yes as we all heard many
pilots were lining up on the first available runway they spotted and
approached it to land. For a time the active runway on CATF as pilots
reported was any one of the 4 they could find.
Oswego unicom consistantly reported and as the winds dictated "favored runway
15". So did the departing Piper cub which thank god took a hand held,
anounced taking the active 15, and held their hand held to ear prior to take
off roll was awfuly strong, for a formation of 2 reported short final and
landed with the tail wind on a direct path of Piper on opposite end AKA
runway 33. It was interesting for a while. But by 11? the day was
absolutely great. No other flying issues that I was aware of.
The seminars went off with out a hitch. Many attendees at each presentation
going to that which interested them. There also was a steady batch of planes
giving rides. All told I heard there was some 52 rides given. There was
@140 attendees and I believe over 20 RV's, @10 more spams, a Baby great
lakes, a Stearman or Waco, a Delta Dike, a Kitfox and finaly what appeared as
a new Cessna 172 Skyhawk too..
Many quality RV series A/C were presented and the Canadian planes and
attendees showed up in strength once again, thanks again to our northern
friends.
The Senserinch (geez how do they spell that?, flame bait for sure!) propeller
flolks came in a single cessna to present and display too.
Now the yellow RV8 #2 was of course a big hit. And Bill Benedict a great
draw, a fine gentleman and endless generous pilot. Bill had to give many RV
8 rides for there surely was interest, and he did so with out complaint or
reliefs.
Bill was the MC for the evening's dinner award presentation and the Avery,
Sporty's, AOPA and other's I forgot (sorry!) fine selection of donated door
prises were just great.
Then speaking for Van's A/C he donated back the gas ride refuel promissory
slips for EAA 486 to make a dollar for dollar donation back to EAA young
eagles RV6 project, very nice!!!. Extra thanks to factory effort and Bill to
come out to this event on the east coast.
Sunday had a small turn out at a (haistly put together, my fault) builders
open house/garage to see my RV6 about ready for cowl fitting and engine
hanging. Kinda feels good not to have Bill ...well "not" say...ummm Dave in
this area...you'd better look at that in the plans again..... must mean most
of my build is OK right?
The RV forum contunies to grow, and the workers like Bill Hodge and Ken
Graves and other 486 members surely do deserve applause. Food was good and
generous, and the admission price reasonable too. This year continues a fine
tradition, and next year probably shouldn't be missed. I saw a mini fly
market with parts for sale, was also available. Why shortly Oswego might get
the mistaken identy of Oshkosh... Laugh HUH well...
Why yes it's true, for today at 1:30pm the EAA B17"Aluminum Overcast" had
landed right outside of EAA486's hanger. (HONEST). It will depart this
Thurday pm. So if in area 12:30 to sunset minus 1 hour, get to KFZY or old
charts N00 and see it up closer that you'd probably ever get to during a OSH
covention.
Respectfully, David McManmon (RV6 Cicero, Oswego EAA 486 member too)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
Subject: | Re: First Flight N506RV |
Congratulations, Scott. Welcome to the club. Be careful and have fun!
Regards,
Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
>
>
>I just took delivery of the emp and am very excited.
>Can any one recommennd a list of tools and source for such.
>Is air absolutly neccissary. Alternately are electric riveters common?
>If not I am looking for a quiet compressor.
>Thank you very much.
>
>
>
> Ross,
Yes, Air is a MUST...no way around it...and it's gonna make some
noise..but only when it's running. So, buy one with a reasonable air
tank on it..mine has a 30 gallon. It only runs at random intervals, and
for less than a minute at a time. The MOST noise will come from OTHER
tools...Scotchbrite wheel, bandsaw, air drill, and rivet gun!
Avery is the FINEST vendor for tools that I've found. Do
NOT..repeat...DO NOT go to ATS for tooling! I bashed so many rivets with
their poorly machined sets I'd like to toss them through their window.
Avery is VERY cost competitive..and the results are far better. They
also deliver quickly..and are very courteous on the phone. No, I don't
work for them...:-)
Enjoy!
Brian Denk
RV-8 #379
waitin on the wingkit
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
Subject: | Re: Franklin Engine |
I've seen alot of Stinson 108's, but they all had the Franklins, narry a
one had a Lycoming........just my observation.
Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Don't Fly an Extra (unless you can afford one) |
>
>>
>> I was in Springfield IL doing some B-25 Training and got to fly an
>> Extra 300L. Unless you can afford one don't do it! What a machine.
>(Personally, I'm more jealous of you getting time in a B-25.)
>
>
>--
>Richard Chandler
>RV-6: Garage bought and being finished, saving for tools and tail kit.
>
To all,
ROGER that comment on the B-25!! The mega-buck acro machines will be
around for years to come...the warbirds? And, from one who has some time
in a B-17G...the memory will stay with you for life. :)
And, for anyone interested...I have some close friends who have an
unlimited class monoplane for sale..only $125K..IO-540 by Demars,
Staudacher wing, Rebel fuselage, Stephens Akro tail, MT prop, smoke,
flawless construction by A&P/IA and only a year old. Email me if you'd
like a scanned photo. Oh, it'll eat an Extra for lunch..in every way.
See? Ya can have yer Acro-cake and eat it too!
Brian Denk
RV-8 #379
waitin on the wingkit
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Franklin Engine |
>
>
>
>
>The 6 cylinder Franklin is a real pleasure to fly behind. It is an
>exceptionally smooth powerplant...the 4 banger Lycoming is not in the
>same league at all. If the new ones are still like the 165, they
>have a neat little cover that is easily removed to allow inspection
>of the bottom end. It seems to me that if you compare prices of
>brand new certified engines, rather than new Franklin vs rebuilt
>something else , the engine is worthy of consideration.
>Try a ride in a Stinson 108 or maybe a Maule with a 220 HP Franklin
>if you can find one.
>
>
>Bob Newman
>bn(at)crosslink.net
>
>
>Bob,
Exactly my impressions. A very good engine...that never received the
same time in the limelight as the Lycosaur. Also, from a trusted A&P
friend who's worked on many Franklins...says it's a well engineered
powerplant, smooth, reliable...and worth considering. Hmm. Still
undecided myself for my -8...so many choices! But..it's down the road
for me....only have the tail done!
Just my couple of Pesos on the matter..
Flyin' Brian Denk
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Larry D. Hoatson" <lhoatson(at)e2.empirenet.com> |
Subject: | Half-Moon Bay Airshow |
Hello Listers,
We plan on attending the Half-Moon Bay Airshow October 4-5, and wondered
if anyone from the list would be there? I understand they're featuring
the RV's this year.
Looking forward to meeting some fellow-listers...
Larry
--
Larry D. Hoatson lhoatson(at)empirenet.com
Restoring 1950 Cessna 170A N9948A... Looking forward to RV-6
"Either Raise Your Skill Level... or Lower Your Standards"
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | Re: First Flight N506RV |
Bob Skinner wrote:
>
>
> Congratulations, Scott. Welcome to the club. Be careful and have fun!
>
> Regards,
>
> Bob Skinner
>
Scott
I too would like to say congratulations. I have probably been flying
my RV-6 longer than any other person on the RV-List (other than Van's)
and I can only say I still take a moment on every flight to ponder
the fact that I actually took a pile of aluminum and made something
that I fly around in the sky and trust my life my family and my
friends lives. It is a accomplishment that earth bound people and non
builder pilots will ever experience. Again CONGRATULATIONS and
FLY SAFE.
Jerry
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Franklin Engine |
<< The O-360 Lyc
that just came out of '85W had 2700 on the bottom end and 1900 on the
top. The bottom end was like new.>>
But, what did they think of the condition of the cylinder heads?
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Yeller Pages |
<< Could some one off list send me the address for the Yeller Pages.
I cleaned up my computer address book by mistake one day. >>
http://www.sound.net/~hartmann/yelrpage.htm
They're also linked from www.vansaircraft.com
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net (Chris Brooks) |
Subject: | Re: Tank baffle rivets |
Eric,
I dimpled mine with no problem, I put the clecoed tank on the wing
first and checked to make sure the dimples would clear the mounting
flange on the wing. You will have to C/S the forward row of screw holes.
Chris Brooks
Murfreesboro,TN
RV6, Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Tank baffle rivets |
Is there any reason I should not
>dimple them? I much prefer the holding power of dimpled skins but I sure
>don't want to screw it up now. Thanks in advance.
>
Eric,
I dimpled mine. That doesn't make it right, but it worked. It was like a
snap in plastic assembly when I tried the fit before final assembly. The
dimples snapped together and then it was difficult getting the rear baffle
out. As well as I remember it took some needle nose pliers etc to get the
dimples apart to allow the baffle to come out. It was unusual for me.
Usually, I get things to come apart fairly easy and then have trouble
getting them back together.
It did make me have some real thought for the pro seal when final assembly
came. i.e. Would it scrape all of the pro seal off as I snapped the parts
together? I finally figured it was like a hinged door, what surface would
'squeeze' it in and what surface may scrape it off. But the pro seal did
its' job.
Press on.
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
Subject: | Re: Don't Fly an Extra (unless you can afford one) |
----------
> From: Richard Chandler <claris.com!mauser(at)matronics.com>
>
> So in other words, you just don't have the extra money? :-)
Exactly!
doug
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: First Flight N506RV |
>the fuel pressure dropped to 1 psi with the boost pump off. The alarm went
>off on the engine monitor and I immediately landed. After speaking with
>Van's, this is normal and has not caused any problems. Low fuel pressure
>occurs in about 20% of the RV's when flying with full tanks. Some fuel gets
>into the vent tube and results in the low pressure. According to Lycoming,
>1/2 psi is the minimum.
>
Scott;
First off, congratulations. It is a great feeling, isn't it?
What you experienced with the fuel pressure, I had the same thing at times,
not low enough to effect the engine running, but low enough to cause me to
pucker. It was usually on climb out, after turning off the boost, and
corrected at level off. Never entered my mind that it may be the vent tube.
I usually filled mine after each flight, and it could well have been. But I
don't understand why it would. The vent tube was slanted to obtain some
pressure from the speed, and since the flow wasn't that great, I assumed the
vent would permit virtually unrestricted flow. It doesn't make sense to me,
but much doesn't.
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: First Flight N506RV |
<< Three "problems" appeared during the flight. First, the C/S prop needs
some
slight adjustments. The engine oversped by about 30 RPM's (gotta love the
digital display and warning on the RMI engine monitor).
Screw in the adjustor screw about 2 turnd for ea 25 RPM adjusment desired.
Re-safety.
Second, the left
fuel cap needs to be tightened as some fuel spilled out the cap.
Loosen locknut, and turn the bottom aluminum disc to tighten the seal. Some
of "Skinner's Fuel Loob " will help here. Re-tighten locknut. BTW- I replaced
the plastic pcs under the levers on my caps with some scrap SS- much improved
operation.
Third,
the fuel pressure dropped to 1 psi with the boost pump off. The alarm went
off on the engine monitor and I immediately landed. After speaking with
Van's, this is normal and has not caused any problems. Low fuel pressure
occurs in about 20% of the RV's when flying with full tanks. Some fuel gets
into the vent tube and results in the low pressure. According to Lycoming,
1/2 psi is the minimum. >>
You can put some "pitot tubes" on your fuel vents to gain a bit more
pressure- they could be in a low pressure area somehow. Check the pics of my
bird on SA. I put a pc of folded 040 safety wire in the ends to keep the
critters out.
Congrats on the new flight! The fight really is worth it, isn't it? You must
be really hooked to build a Charger next- Nice looking bipe. Now you get to
sniff fabric glue!
Check six!
Mark
HR 2 180 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
<< If not I am looking for a quiet compressor.
> Thank you very much.
> >>
Just a note- I guess I'm looking for a new compressor, too. I left mine on
the other night. Upon returning to the shop the next morning, I found the
dang thing had leaked itself empty. I could tell, because the shop was full
of air.
Harumph.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Steven Janicki" <SJANICKI(at)us.oracle.com> |
Subject: | Re: Left hand throttle quadrant |
--=_ORCL_50189687_0_11919709300723240
John, Thanks for the tips. Can you share any drawings and/or photo's?
I am very interested in your bell crank idea as well.
Regards,
Steve
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The statements and opinions expressed here are my own and
do not necessarily represent those of Oracle Corporation.
When once you have tasted flight,
you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been, and there you will always long to return.
-- Leonardo Da Vinci
Steven B. Janicki
Director of Client Services
ORACLE Data Center
Voice (415)506-2740
Fax (415)633-2933
--=_ORCL_50189687_0_11919709300723240
Date: 29 Sep 97 05:31:42
From:"John Darby "
Subject:Re: RV-List: Left hand throttle quadrant
>Hello, I recently flew up to Santa Rosa (Northern CA.) and viewed an RV6
that had the
>throttle quadrant on the left hand side. I am interested in incorporating
this option
>into my aircraft and hope to make the addition of a center quadrant as
well. This is
cut
Steve;
I used Vans two knobbed throttle quadrant, took it apart and made it one
knob lever. I used the one that the cable connects between the knob and the
pivot point. It worked fine for me. Mounted it on the first angle below
the main longeron, then placed a bracket just forward of the bulkhead and on
the same angle so as to mount the cable housing. Didn't have any plans
except an idea as to what I wanted.
The two throttle thing has at least three options. Both to a bell crank.
Both to the throttle lever with an inner and an outer fork over each other.
And one cable to the throttle lever and the other cable connected to it at
the eng end. I never got around to that part of it. I intended to do that
some day but it was a lot like my other plan when I was a young man. I
intended to become a multi millionaire and just never got around to it!
If you think I may can answer any of your questions, contact me direct. But
no questions about how I was going to become a multi mil. etc. :-)
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
--=_ORCL_50189687_0_11919709300723240
name="anonymous-attachment-1";
charset="us-ascii"
filename="anonymous-attachment-1"
John, Thanks for the tips. Can you
share any drawings and/or photo's?
I am very interested in your bell
crank idea as well.
Regards,
Steve
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The statements and opinions expressed here are my own and
do not necessarily represent those of Oracle Corporation.
When once you have tasted flight,
you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been, and there you will always long to return.
--
Leonardo Da Vinci
Steven B. Janicki
Director of Client Services
ORACLE Data Center
Voice (415)506-2740
Fax (415)633-2933
--=_ORCL_50189687_0_11919709300723240--
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Steven Janicki" <SJANICKI(at)us.oracle.com> |
Subject: | Re: Left hand throttle quadrant |
--=_ORCL_50191632_0_11919709300726580
Having flown Helicopters for 1000s of hours plus Citabrias, Pilatus, etc. I am
very
comfortable with the right hand stick and left hand throttle. It is strange that
fighter
aircraft, RV,4,8, etc. are this way and others are the opposite. Would be nice
to have a
single standard.
Regards,
Steve
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The statements and opinions expressed here are my own and
do not necessarily represent those of Oracle Corporation.
When once you have tasted flight,
you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been, and there you will always long to return.
-- Leonardo Da Vinci
Steven B. Janicki
Director of Client Services
ORACLE Data Center
Voice (415)506-2740
Fax (415)633-2933
--=_ORCL_50191632_0_11919709300726580
Date: 29 Sep 97 05:49:48
From:"ROSS JOHNSON
"
Subject:Re: RV-List: Left hand throttle quadrant
Steven Janicki wrote:
>
>
> Hello, I recently flew up to Santa Rosa (Northern CA.) and viewed an RV6 that
had the
> throttle quadrant on the left hand side. I am interested in incorporating this
option
> into my aircraft and hope to make the addition of a center quadrant as well.
This is to allow
> my CFII to feel comfortable during Instrument and other training sessions.
>
> Can anyone share or point me in the direction of a set of plans and parts?
> Regards,
> Steve
Interested to know the reason for the side stick.
Ross.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
Subject: | Re: First Flight N506RV |
Congratulations and welcome to the Airborne Division of Van's Airforce.
In regards to fuel pressure, at the RV Fly In last weekend, someone said
their breather tube became obstructed by an insect, and they noticed the
tank was "caving in". While flying they could see the leading edge was
distorting.
>John
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Tip Up Canopy Presentation |
From: | lm4(at)juno.com (Larry Mac Donald) |
(EDT)aol.com!McManD(at)matronics.com writes:
RV-List message posted by: McManD(at)aol.com
As previuosly promised, Fresh from the 3rd annual RV forum held in Oswego
NY. You may e'mail a request to McManD(at)aol.com asking for a e'mail back
to you with a file attached.
As it states I do not claim to be an expert, just experienced. And
judging from the interest in the visual aid I took to the seminar
(my first cracked canopy) the lessons were appreciated.
David McManmon,
Cicero NY, RV6 tip up, 0320H2AD, canopy #2
Dave,
You couldn't be more right.
Where could I go to see and touch a builders ( very expensive ) mistake.
And then learn what I can do to avoid that mistake. Your lecture was very
educational and enjoyable. Thanks a lot.
Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Alan Brown <103612.2516(at)compuserve.com> |
<>
Ross,
I've been researching this for quite some time. Wish I had my empenage
kit. =
Anyway, just got back from a weekend builders class at Avery's in Ft.
Worth. They are, in my opinion, the best tool suppliers. Cleaveland Too=
l
has good stuff, but not wild about their packages. To each his own. The=
Avery hand squeezer is the best in the business. Avery's number is (800)=
652-8379. Cleaveland Tool is (800) 368-1822. Cleaveland's Tank dies for=
the fuel tanks are recommended by Van's. DO NOT go with the other "big"
professional tool manufacturers. You'll be sorry if you do!!!! Many
dissapointed customers. Avery's and Cleaveland are all RV builders. You=
can get some things like snips cheaper at your local hardware store and
Walmart. Pro Snips or Wiss either one. =
NO, you cannot build this airplane with electric alone. You MUST have ai=
r.
Even electric drills don't turn fast enought for aluminum. Aluminum lik=
es
fast drill bits, not slow electric one's. They do not make an electric
riveter, at least not that I've ever heard of. Sorry, but I can't believ=
e
you already bought the tail kit without looking into this more. Go take =
a
builders class. PLEASE!!!! Avery's class is $250 and well worth it. Ver=
y
personalized, small classes. There's a lot more to building this airplan=
e
than just reading instructions and joining part "A" to part "B". I bough=
t
the Campbell Hausfeld 4.5 compressor with a 26 gallon tank. It is as qui=
et
as they come. =
Also, get George Orndorrf's video's on building the RV's. Good stuff and=
stimulating and satisfying when you can't be building your own for whatev=
er
reason. =
Hope this helps,
Alan Brown
Soon 2 B RV-8 builder
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Alan Brown <103612.2516(at)compuserve.com> |
Hello fellow RV8ors,
Just spent a weekend at Avery's with Bob, Judy and family and Martin
Sutter, and a visit with George and Becky Orndorrf while attending the
builders class. What a worthwhile $300 (wife and myself) ! ! ! !
Anyway, witnessed a resultant primed part primed with the PPG DX 1791 sel=
f
etching primer. Gold finish, looks like anodized. That's what I'm going=
to use. Probably just as expensive as the Morehyde, but looks real good.=
=
Martin said a gallon should do the entire enterior of the plane (RV8). S=
o
I figure 2 gallons for me. Plus, you can still see any pen marks you've
made on the aluminum through the primer, if you so desire. Not annodized=
,
but looks just as good.
Alan Brown
Walton, KY (outside of Cincinnati)
Still trying to sell motorcycle and woodworking equipment so I can order
emp.
(5hp Woodmaster planer / moulder & lots of cutters & dust collector and
miter saw )
(Honda Shadow 750)
Soon 2 B RV 8or
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough) |
Subject: | Re: Left hand throttle quadrant |
I have a dual throttle system as per the Airbeetle. It has a left hand quadrant
and a centre
push/pull throttle only.
I have no drawings but it kinda works like this.
Both cables go through the firewall and arrive just short of the throttle arm,
where they are both
secured using the large nut on the outer sheath to a fixed point in space (throttle
bracket)
They then go to a small aluminium block about 1inch by 5/8 inch by 3/16 thick.
This block has two
holes in it. Both inner cables go into the block. One is secured in the block with
nuts on either
side, the other is secured with a nut on one side and a clevis rod end on the other.
This clevis
end now goes to the throttle arm.
If you now pull one cable, the joint at the block transfers the pull to the other
and vice versa,
so they both now work in synch.
It took a bit of fiddling to get the lengths correct and you obviously can't use
a vernier centre
throttle. It works just fine though and for the rare occassions where I have someone
in the left
who wants to fly, there is a throttle for them to use. I of course use the left
mounted quadrant.
My quadrant has throttle and mixture. If I had a constant speed, it would probably
have throttle
and prop. I think it may be too wide if I had all three.
Ken
RV6A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | RV-wannabe - Indianapolis |
From: | Kate and/or Jack <jgh(at)iavbbs.com> |
Can anyone in the Indianapolis area help this guy out? Apparently he
found the web page of Van's Michigan Wing.
<http://iavbbs.com/jgh/rvmi.htm>
---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ----------------
Date: 09/30 1:02 AM
From: richmer(at)mail.theonramp.net
Kate,
I live in Indianapolis and am trying to decide if I want to build an RV-6
or RV-8 but my ignorance abounds. Can I get in contact with some one to
answer basic questions and at least get to sit in one of these planes.
Thanks,
Rich Mercurio
----------------- End Forwarded Message -----------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net> |
Subject: | Re: Tank baffle rivets |
> Hi Gang,
> Just wanted to ask before I jumped. Van says to countersink the row of
> rivets that attach the rear of the tank skin to the baffle (last bit o'
> riveting in the tank sealing operation). Is there any reason I should not
> dimple them? I much prefer the holding power of dimpled skins but I sure
> don't want to screw it up now. Thanks in advance.
>
> Eric Henson
> Dana Point, CA
> ehenson(at)cldwell.attmail.com
Eric,
Countersink the rear baffle and dimple the skins. The rear baffle is to
thick to dimple.
Ed Cole
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | CHRIS.BROWNE(at)bge.com |
Subject: | Franklin Engine - TBO, Reliability, and Prop Flanges |
For those still interested, I spoke with Pat Goodman at Atlas about
these issues.
The prop flange is the same one used on the Continental O-300 and
O-470, so there are props available.
The Franklins had a 2000 hr. TBO before they moved overseas, and there
are some engines manufactured in Poland with 2000 hrs or more. TBOs
are automatically reduced whenever there is a significant
manufacturing change such as this.
There has never been an AD issued against Franklin!
I will try and visit Atlas soon, maybe this weekend.
And BWT, the November issue of Kitplane has a short article on
Franklin, but the price in the artice is wrong. The complete engine
with carb, etc., is about $16,000, not $12,744 as implied in the
article.
Chris Browne
Buying Tools for a QB6A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BrownTool(at)aol.com |
There are several excellent tool vendors out there, I happen to think Brown
Aviation Tool Supply Co. is the best, (I own the company). I am a licensed
aircraft technician and am pleased to offer free advice on building
techniques. Free catalog is available @ 1-800-587-3883 or BrownTool(at)aol.com
. It would be a privilege to earn your business.
Michael Brown
About to order RV-8 !!!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Subject: | Re: Left hand throttle quadrant |
> Some of us are left handed, I hope to set mine 6A up to pilot from the
> right seat, with left hand controls...that is the best part of building
> your own aircraft, we can make it what we want, not what the factory thinks
> we want.
True, but...
Left or right handed, it only takes a few minutes to get used to a
different configuration. I used to regularly switch between a Citabria
(right stick, left throttle), a Cessna (left yoke, right throttle), and
an RV-6 (left stick, right throttle). After the initial check-out, each
plane feels right for what it is, it's never seemed to me that any one
configuration felt unnatural.
I'm not criticizing your idea, just offering some food for thought,
especially considering that it will likely be a fair amount more work to
set up dual quadrants, or even left controls. Deviations from the kit
always seem to be at least 3 times as expensive and time consuming as
you think it will be (the voice of experience!)
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Subject: | Re: Tank baffle rivets |
>> Is there any reason I should not
> > dimple them? I much prefer the holding power of dimpled skins but I sure
> > don't want to screw it up now. Thanks in advance.
>
> Eric,
> Countersink the rear baffle and dimple the skins. The rear baffle is to
> thick to dimple.
Dimpling worked for me. Actually I c-sunk the skin (per the plans) on
the first tank, but was not too happy with the quality of the work
(bunch of slightly high rivets), and saw no real reason not to dimple,
beyond the fact that the dimples in the baffle end up too close to the
spar doubler if you're not careful. I was careful, and managed to
dimple the second tank and baffle, and was much happier with it than the
first one.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug Miner" <dougm(at)pogo.WV.TEK.COM> |
Subject: | Re: prototype rv-3 photos wa |
rv-list(at)matronics.com
RE>prototype rv-3 photos wanted 9/30/97 11:40 AM
I have a scanner.. if someone would like something scanned...
Doug Miner
dougm(at)pogo.wv.tek.com
--------------------------------------
Date: 9/29/97 12:12 PM
From: Randall Henderson
I can't believe I spent the whole week at Oshkosh and didn't get any
photos of the prototype RV-3 N17RV sitting there at the entrance to the
RV parking area. I need one to cap off the article on the restoration
project on the Home Wing Home Page. If anyone has photos and access to
a scanner, could you scan 1 or 2 and email them to me (PRIVATELY)? I'd
sure appreciate it.
Or if you are in the VAF Home Wing group, maybe just bring it to the
meeting?
Thanks in advance.
Randall Henderson
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------
(Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA621
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:55:36 -0700
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: prototype rv-3 photos wanted
Please direct any reply to:
Douglas W. Miner Tektronix CPID
Application Engineer 26600 SW Parkway
Wilsonville OR, 97070
Do, Or Do Not.
There Is No Try.
-Yoda
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough) |
I had a discussion recently with an AME about the problem I've been having with
a heat soaked
engine. He asked me if I had a thick gasket between my sump and the fuel injector
servo, stating
that this prevents some heat from getting to the servo and causing vapour. He said
that after
installing this on an aircraft in the hot south, the problems went away.
Does anyone know anything about this?
Ken
RV6A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
Subject: | Re: First Flight N506RV |
>In regards to fuel pressure, at the RV Fly In last weekend, someone said
>their breather tube became obstructed by an insect, and they noticed the
>tank was "caving in". While flying they could see the leading edge was
>distorting.
>>John
I carry a length of aluminum tubing with a short length of vinyl tubing on
it in my airplane to check that the fuel vents are unobstructed. I J-B
welded some screen over the fuel vent ports on the bottom of the fuselage to
keep the bugs out.
Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
Subject: | Re: Tank baffle rivets |
>>> Is there any reason I should not
>> > dimple them? I much prefer the holding power of dimpled skins but I sure
>> > don't want to screw it up now. Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Eric,
>> Countersink the rear baffle and dimple the skins. The rear baffle is to
>> thick to dimple.
>
>Dimpling worked for me. Actually I c-sunk the skin (per the plans) on
>the first tank, but was not too happy with the quality of the work
>(bunch of slightly high rivets), and saw no real reason not to dimple,
>beyond the fact that the dimples in the baffle end up too close to the
>spar doubler if you're not careful. I was careful, and managed to
>dimple the second tank and baffle, and was much happier with it than the
>first one.
I'd vote for folowing the plans. You could dimple the baffle as it is
.032". However, I can't believe that dimpling every 3/4" won't result in
some waviness and if this happens, you'd better have plenty of proseal to
fill this dips and valleys as the skin and baffle won't make uniform contact
as it would if the plans were followed. Of course, your line of holes could
end up too close to the web of the baffle which might make dimpling, even
with cut down dies, close to impossible. If the row of dimples is too far
aft, you'll get interference with the spar doubler, as Randall pointed out.
You could machine counter sink the baffle and dimple the skin and if I
were to deviate from the plans, this is the method that I would prefer. The
only drawback to this method would be sliding the baffle past gillions of
dimples in the skin. You would probably have to bend the skins away from
the ribs to ease the baffle in possibly stretching the proseal that's slued
your skin to the ribs.
If your tank leaks and you followed the plans---well, what else could you
do? But if you deviate from the plans and your tanks leak and you call
Van's, what would they say, "Why didn't you follow the plans?" Guess it
doesn't make too much difference. You'd still have leaky tanks.
Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Marhyde Primer |
From: | tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com (John T. Craig-Stearman) |
Not any more, unfortunately. I tried to order some Marhyde and some zinc
chromate from Avery a couple of weeks ago, and he said he no longer
carries primer. Rats.
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com
RV-4 doing wing intersection fairings
writes:
>
>Bob Avery has it
>
>Gary Corde
>RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
> Craig-Stearman)
>
> Not any more, unfortunately. I tried to order some Marhyde and some
> zinc
> chromate from Avery a couple of weeks ago, and he said he no longer
> carries primer
>
Many auto paint stores carry zinc oxide primer, which is the more
environmentally safe version of zince chromate. I bought a few
spray cans from a local auto paint store, I could get the brand off
a can at home if anybody is interested. Funky yellow/green color.
Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA N727MF (reserved)
RV-6AQME starting the sliding canopy...oh help...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Bright <john(at)catlover.com> |
Subject: | Re: Tools (compressor) |
> I am looking for a quiet compressor.
Do not get a direct drive oil-less compressor if you want it to be quiet,
go for belt drive with oil.
John Bright, Newport News, VA, john(at)catlover.com, RV-6/6A empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Scott <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
Subject: | Need advice about putting a bicycle in an RV6A. |
I managed to put a 28 pound Dahon foldup bike in the back of my RV6A.
However, it does not appear 2 will fit ( guess the wife gets the bike and I
walk). However, I remember seeing a very small foldup tandem but am unable
to locate the source. By chance does anybody know of a source ? Has anybody
gotten 2 bikes or a small tandem in and stayed within the c.g. limits ?
It would be neat if VAN had an option for a one foot extension so that the
RV6 could carry a little more gear like a tent, and a couple of bicycles.
Scott Johnson Chicago
rvgasj(at)mcs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
Would someone E-mail me (off list) Bill Benidict's E-mail address? I had
it until the "computer guy" fixed my computer up for me.
Thanks,
Bob Skinner bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rscott(at)wnstar.com (Richard Scott) |
Subject: | Re: Franklin Engine |
I beg to differ on the statement ,"The Stinson 108 that originally came
with Franklins have mostly all been
converted to Lycomings". The fact is that very few have been converted to
Lycomings and Stinson owners are very fond of the smooth operation they get
from the Franklins. Within the Stinson Club, there is a lot of interest in
going with the PZL Franklin 220. This is probably because the 220
conversion appears to be an easier and more economical conversion for a
Stinson than going to a Lycoming. But if you are starting out with a plane
designed around a Lycoming, as are the RV's this consideration would not
apply.
As far as the 1500 hr. life of the Franklin is concerned, this appears to
be a holdover from when the engine was first certified in the US and as I
recall, Atlas is looking to get it boosted to 2,000. Parts and service for
Lycomings will continue to be easier to get until Atlas gets a large number
in service, then it will improve for the PZL's, but this will take some time.
Dick Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Terry Lutz <70634.643(at)compuserve.com> |
Subject: | How to receive rv-list efficiently |
Hi,
Can you help me out a bit here. I get quite a bit out of the
rv-list, but have some problems using it. Just unsubscribed so I can
figure a few things out. I use compuserve for email, and for each message,
I get the whole address header, often nearly a full page. Is there any way
to display the messages without the header, and is there any way to attach
them together so I can scroll through, one to the next easily, then grab
the ones I want ? Thanks, I am just a simple computer person, need for
work, but no time to become expert on it.
Terry Lutz
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
I am off to Maui for a second honeymoon. I'll be back on October 9th. If
you have any correspondence to me about my newsletter, please wait unitl I
get back. Thanks.
Jim Cone, Editor
Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing Newsletter
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
Listers,
Where can I get Nay nozzles installed? I'm rebuilding the O320 I plan
to put in my -6A shortly and thought I'd like to do the nozzles when I get
the case components polished up, checked for cracks, etc. Of
course, I'd like to have the same shop do all of the above work. I
looked in the archives and found plenty of references to paint nozzles.
Only a couple to the Nay nozzles. No address or phone number.
Jim Sears
RV-6A #22220 (working inside the fuselage)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | emcole <emcole(at)concentric.net> |
Subject: | Re: Gone to Maui |
aol.com!JamesCone(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
> I am off to Maui for a second honeymoon. I'll be back on October 9th. If
> you have any correspondence to me about my newsletter, please wait unitl I
> get back. Thanks.
>
> Jim Cone, Editor
> Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing Newsletter
>
Was this expense factored in to building your RV??????
What price happiness?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | emcole <emcole(at)concentric.net> |
Jim Sears wrote:
>
>
> Listers,
>
> Where can I get Nay nozzles installed? I'm rebuilding the O320 I plan
> to put in my -6A shortly and thought I'd like to do the nozzles when I get
> the case components polished up, checked for cracks, etc. Of
> course, I'd like to have the same shop do all of the above work. I
> looked in the archives and found plenty of references to paint nozzles.
> Only a couple to the Nay nozzles. No address or phone number.
>
> Jim Sears
> RV-6A #22220 (working inside the fuselage)
>
>
Check an issue of Trade-a-Plane. By the way, I noticed in the latest
issue of Kitplanes that
they now have a web site.
Ed Cole
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Wes Hays <whays(at)tenet.edu> |
Subject: | Re: Tank baffle rivets |
On Tue, 30 Sep 1997, Chris Brooks wrote:
>
> Eric,
> I dimpled mine with no problem,
Eric,
FWIW, I also dimpled the back row and countersunk the front row. The tanks
slide on and off fine. I thought however, that that is what the plans
called for if I remember correctly.
Wes Hays
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
<199709301945.NAA01457(at)home2.trib.com>
>
>Jim Sears wrote:
>> Where can I get Nay nozzles installed?
Chuck Ney Enterprises, Inc.
Tulsa, OK
918-836-5323
or
www.chuckneyent.com/nozzle.htm
Regards
Tom Velvick
Phoenix, AZ USA
RV-6 fluting wing ribs
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
Subject: | First Flight Today |
Here's a long one. Got home from work 7 a.m.. Went to sleep. DAR
called 10:30 a.m.. Not knowing what he wanted, I didn't answer phone,
knowing I would do my first flight before I returned his call, just in
case. Back to sleep till noon. Went to airport 2 p.m.. Waited for
family and friends to show up. Took off. No airspeed indicated, but I
knew I was probably moving cuz I was in the air. Got the feel of it for
a few minutes, came back and greased in a long wheel landing. Found a
split in airspeed tubing, cut it off and jammed it back on. Blew in it
a little, reading now. Took off again. Went to 4000 feet. Did several
stalls, power on and off. Oh, this is an 0320-e2d 150 hp. Felix prop
68x72. Straight and level at 1000 feet, true 152 mph at 2500 rpm.
Full throttle climb at 100 indicated was 1200 fpm. At 70 mph it would
hold 2000 fpm for a pretty good while, I wasn't paying real close
attention at this time because the oil temp was getting closer to 225
than it should have. I will have to check the pitot system in the
morning for more leaks. Also curious about the high oil temps. Did
steep turns and stalls for a while. Right brake lost pressure. Just
rolled so straight on landing I didn't need em. (light breeze at most).
Pulled cowling off. Throttle lacks a 1/8 inch from making full open
throttle. I don't know how this equates to power, probably not much.
No oil drips, this is very important to me, since all my other planes
have been belly lubers. I dove to 180 mph a couple times, the elevator
got much stiffer. Makes me wonder if the airspeed is reading too low at
higher speeds. Find out tomorrow when a chase plane will be there. I
was disappointed in the speed for the given power setting. The plane
handled beautifully. Straight and level, hands off. I liked the manual
trim. I think I will leave off the electric trim on my other one. The
only problem I had was slowing it down for landing. Coming across the
numbers at 80 is way too fast. I used half the runway (4000 ft) rolling
to a stop with light brake usage. Roll rate was crisp and elevator
pressures were light until the speed got up around 165 or so
(downhill). I enjoyed it a bunch. I got home and called the DAR. No
problem, just some non coinciding dates on the paperwork we typed up.
RELIEF. Any suggestions on the oil temps or anything else, I'm all
ears. The oil cooler is on the left rear of the engine baffling.
Thanks alot. See you later. It has been a good day. WHEW!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rvator97(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: First Flight N506RV |
Hey Jerry, nice to hear from you again. I just got on the list recently, we
used to talk on cserve years ago. We also met at a Bakersfield BBQ a few
years ago, and at Arlington 95. Do you still fly with the Garfield doll in
the canopy?
I hope to be flying by the end of this year! (After 5.5 years!) Hope to see
you at the fly-ins next summer.
Walt Hastings
N79WH
RV-6A
Santa Clarita, Calif.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike Denman <mikedenman(at)earthlink.net> |
Internal or external shunts? My understanding (somewhat limited) is
that an internal shunt in an amp meter requires a large gage wire to be
run to the instrument ie. something on the order of 8 awg for a 50 amp
alternator. The advantage(?) of an external shunt is that it keeps the
large gage wire and high amperage off the instrument panel. Is this
correct so far? What experience do the users of the web have to relate
on this subject. I would be interested in knowing where they are
mounting external shunts and what gage wire runs from an external shunt
to the amp instrument in a typical installation. Other comments or
answers to questions that I am too dumb to even ask would also be
appreciated.
Mike Denman
"Lets see, a river has current and a river flows down hill , therefore a
battery turned on its side..."
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rvator97(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: First Flight N506RV |
Congratualtions Scott! Your note really struck a chord with me. First flight
has been on my mind alot lately. My RV-6A SHOULD be ready to go by the end of
the year.
I have a session scheduled with Mike Seeger next month to get checked out in
the 6A. Can' wait!
Anyway. can't imagine what that first one is going to feel like, (after 5+
years).
BTW - Was your engine a fresh rebuild or new? Am curious as to the proper
break-in
procedures. (mine is a zero time rebuilt 0-320, 160 hp)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | Re: First Flight Today |
Michael
Wow it is great to hear about all of these first flights.
CONGRATULATIONS
I am not familiar with a Felix prop but that sound like a lot
of pitch for a E2D. What is static rpm? And at full RPM in
the air? You said 152 mph TAS, which is slow for 1000 ft and
2500 rpm, are you sure you weren't looking at IAS? Do you
have all of your wheel and gear farings installed? (10-14 mph)
If your engine is new or new rebuild 225 oil temp is not
out of line and will start coming down as you put on more
time, and should stabilize at 10-20 hrs.
Again congratulations and fly safe.
Jerry
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cfggg <ddebt(at)pathcom.com> |
Subject: | Re: Servo gasket |
You might try rigging a blast tube to the top of the injector to test out
this theory.
Considering the balmy conditions forecast for Ottawa this winter, shouldn't
you be thinking about a thinner gasket? :)
David Fried
>
>I had a discussion recently with an AME about the problem I've been having
with a heat soaked
>engine. He asked me if I had a thick gasket between my sump and the fuel
injector servo, stating
>that this prevents some heat from getting to the servo and causing vapour.
He said that after
>installing this on an aircraft in the hot south, the problems went away.
>Ken
>
>RV6A Flying
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
Thanks to those who responded to the question. I've gone to their
web site and have the phone number. Maybe if I had spelled Nay
nozzles as Ney nozzles, I might have found them easier in the archives!
Jim Sears
RV-6A #22220
________________________________________________________________________________
Listers,
I'm finishing up my RV4 Horizontal Stabilizer this weekend.
I have the electric trim kit but am wondering if I should go with manual trim
instead due to some comments I saw in the archives about the response being
too fast on the electric trim.
I know there is a governor available from Matronics and MAC also lists a
speed controller, but someone at the NE RV Builders Forum told me the servos
had been fixed so you don't need a governor anymore. This one is a MAC 8A.
I would appreciate any comments on the electric vs. manual trim issue, since
I will have to make a decision in a couple of weeks.
And by the way, I had my second ride in an RV4 on Saturday. Inspiring.
Mark McGee
of the drill that helped me to keep the drill
vertical and/or level with the surface I was drilling. The model is
DW100 and I believe I paid around $60 at Home Depot. This should get you
started. Have fun and good luck.
Fran Malczynski
Olcott, NY
Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Fran Malczynski <fmalczy(at)ibm.net> |
Subject: | Northeast RV Forum |
Great, great forum. For $35 we got to attend some great presentations,
learn a whole lot, eat three meals, see the workmanship and flying
qualities of at least 20 RV's and talk a lot about building RV's. What
September 21, 1997 - October 01, 1997
RV-Archive.digest.vol-dk