RV-Archive.digest.vol-dk

September 21, 1997 - October 01, 1997



      canopy is finished!!!!
      
      
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Date: Sep 21, 1997
Subject: Re: Mixture Control Cable
From: gasobek(at)juno.com (Gary A. Sobek)
><< Any suggestions out there as to how to make a good safe hookup on the > mixture lever with a 10-32 threaded end cable. >> I installed a bushing in mine and used the standard 3/16" AN hardware (AN3) with a rod end from Van's. Works great. I did need to remove a little from the outside of the large area washer to get full travel. Gary A. Sobek RV-6 20480 N157GS O-320 CS MA4-SPA FAA A & P EAA Tech Counselor ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 1997
Subject: Re: Need Advice On Wing Jacks Or Other Tire Changer Method
From: gasobek(at)juno.com (Gary A. Sobek)
writes: > >Scott; >Why not keep it simple and use a small stainless hose clamp put around the >lowest part of the gear ...snip... This has always worked great for me on my >RV-4, I would assume it would work on the sixes also....snip... >Von Alexander >N107RV RV-4 It works on my -6. A clamp used for attaching a ground wire to a water pipe also works. I have even pick up both wings using my back under the spar outboard from the wing tie down point. Works well for 15 GAL fuel on board but too heavy for me with full fuel. I can lift it high enough for a helper to place a 4 X 4 block under the tire. It did not damage the skin or make the airplane fly funny. It has flown twice since attempting to pick up with full fuel. Gary A. Sobek RV-6 20480 N157GS FAA A & P EAA Tech Counselor ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Warren/MK Bishop" <wemkbish(at)nponline.net>
Subject: Burlington Fly in
Date: Sep 21, 1997
A BIG THANK YOU to all who helped put on the Burlington Fly-in this week-end. It was a GREAT time, even though some canceled at last minute due to the Wx. We met many new friends, learned lots of helpful stuff in building and are looking forward to the day our -6 is flying. Thanks again, John Stewart, and all those who helped. I know we are looking forward to next year's event. Warren Bishop RV-6 engine details. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 1997
From: "Martin W. Sailer Jr." <mwsailer(at)erols.com>
Subject: Elevator Skins
I sent a fax to Van's two weeks ago for an update to my manual. As a side note asked if elevator skins (E 601 PP) were available in .020 for the 6-6A, after reading the post by Rick Smith. Tom responded that they are available in .020 but did not give a price. Before the reply I purchased a sheet of .020 and will be making my own this winter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 21, 1997
Subject: Re: "EXPERIMENTAL" sign location
I put my "EXPERIMENTAL" sign on the baggage compartment aft bulkhead. I had no problem with the FAA about the location. Jim Cone RV6A flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 21, 1997
Subject: Re: Builder's log
My FAA inspector looked at every page of my builders log and spent nearly 30 minutes examining the entries. I had a photo album with hundreds of pictures of the construction including some with me in them with a big smile. He wasn't very interested in the album. Bottom line: keep a good log of the owrk that you do. The regs require it. They don't require a photo album. Jim Cone RV-6A flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Irwin" <pcpms(at)leadbelt.com>
Subject: RV-8 Fever
Date: Sep 21, 1997
One day 4 hours and 22 minutes ago I was in the middle of a hesitation roll looking down at the ground through the bubble canopy of Van's yellow -8, N58RV. Most people would think I'm nut's for leaving at 3:30 am and getting back at midnight and driving more than 700 miles for a 15 minute ride, but I know the rest of you out there understand. I've been reliving every minute of that fifteen minute ride ever since. Somehow, I'm going to have to focus on my work so I can afford this new addiction. Michael Irwin Planning budget and tools for an -8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com>
Subject: Workmanship
Date: Sep 21, 1997
Late September and not too many good days left if you need to paint outside, so I drafted two of my neighbors to help me get the fuselage out of the basement. They don't know diddly about a/c and that is OK, but I still wasn't prepared when one asked if I was building a canoe and the other asked in all seriousness which end was the front. I really didn't think my work was that bad. I was then asked if it was going to be a jet and how many engines was I going to put on it. Also, could I fly in the fog ? I said "hell yes, I'm in a fog most of the time". First guy thought it was damn big for a model until I told him you could sit in it. He thereupon wanted to know if it could make it to Florida in one go. I again said "hell yes" not telling him it would first have to be sent air cargo by United Airlines. I am not lying, these are all actual questions. They didn't seem at all concerned about what appeared to be dark blood spots on the sleeve of my shirt, figuring I guess that when you work with metal this sort of thing can happen. It is actually paint from the rudder so now I have a good color match when I need to get more. My wife had her nose out of joint just a bit when she saw some pro-seal on the washing machine until I told her that it may not look as nice and white anymore but that sucker will never leak. Seemed OK then. All is not despair however as I have discovered that the paint I did buy was as good as the salesman said it was because two cats promptly pissed on my wings and they stood up as good as you please. I will be moving to the airport soon, but I think I will put the a/c on a flat bed to transport it. Unlike a friend of mine who towed the fuselage behind a pickup and then found to his joy and heartbreak that the a/c truly was aerobatic as it twisted on the tow and rolled continuously for 1/4 mile. That is how I got this great engine that only has all the cooling fins mashed off it. Got to go now as I must try to get overspray off the car's windshield before the wife picks up on why the wipers sound like scraping sandpaper......Austin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: caummisa(at)arn.net
Date: Sep 21, 1997
Subject: Re: Builder's log
Did you mean to say Advisory Circular AC 20-23? I see that the title of AC 20-27 is "Airworthiness Standards: Normal Category Rotorcraft" Is 27D related to SE Airplane? Or did I miss the target altogether? This is a genuine quest for knowledge --- NOT A FLAME! : ) >AC 20-27D is a free publication that outlines everything you need to know / >do. > >Scott A. Jordan >80331 >N733JJ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wndwlkr711(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 21, 1997
Subject: Re: Antennas for RVs
I'm at that point that I will need to decide where the antenna will go. Count me in for the info. G. Stanley-Desert Center RV-6A wings in jigs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James G. Tennison" <tennison(at)west.net>
Subject: RV-8 Aerobatics
Date: Sep 20, 1997
Alan, The wing loads are generally limited by wing-root bending moment and = shear load on the spar. Any wing mass located from the root outboard, = will tend to relieve wing root bending moment for most positve "g" = manuevers. Even the wing weight itself helps to reduce root bending = moments. To get the details on the effect of wing fuel on the wing root = bending and spar shear load distribution we would need to rely on Van or = one of our more savy structural oriented engineers out there. I can = only present you with a back of the=20 envelope equation for an aircraft undergoing 1-g flight or a symmetric = pull-up (ie no roll rate): Bending Moment at the Wing Root: BMroot =3D g x ( 0.5 x Wac x 0.333 x 0.5 x b -=20 0.5 x Wfuel x yfuel -=09 Wwing x 0.5 x 0.5 x b ) Wing Root Shear Load: Root Shear =3D 0.5 x g x (Wac - Wfuel - Wwing)=20 where, g =3D (normal acceleration)/(acceleration due to gravity) b =3D wing span [feet] Wac =3D Weight of aircraft [pounds] Wfuel =3D Weight of fuel (assuming equal left and right tanks) Wwing =3D Wing weight [pounds] yfuel =3D distance from root to the center-of-gravity of fuel [feet] Distances in feet and weights in pounds. We're concentrating on the = right wing.=20 The above equations contains some simplifying assumptions such as, Lift = acts at one-third wing semi-span and wing weight acts at the mid = semi-span. =20 Lift root / \ attach | | | Wing root -> = ))=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D! - Wing tip |--yfuel-->| | | | |=20 \ / \ / Wfuel Wwing My main point here is that both the wing weight and the fuel weight are = subtracted from lift loads in the root bending moment equation. This means they releive = the maneuvering bending moment at the root spar attach point. This is = usually the spar's design load point. You structues guys can chime in now. Am I missing anything important? Hope this is illustrative. Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 1997
From: Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: inspections and annuals
>Michael C. Lott wrote: >> >> >> There is a little confusion on my part about working on and signing off >> on work done to an experimental airplane. I was told by an I.A. that as >> long as the original builder owns the experimental airplane, he can do >> all the mechanical work and has to get an A+P to sign off the annual >> inspections. > >Michael >The IA is wrong about having to have a A&P sign off >annuals. If you are the owner builder and get a repairman certificate >from the FAA for your airplane you can do all the work and inspections >yourself. On a experimental it is called a Condition Inspection*. >He is right that if you sell the airplane the new owner has to treat >the airplane the same as if it were a spam can and have a A&P work on >it with a IA sign off. OR he can bring the airplane back to you as the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Jerry, ... not quite right! A mechanic with an A&P rating is sufficient for an experimental ... NO IA signature is needed. Gil (I sign off my Experimental - Exhibition & Racing - sailplane with an "A" rating) Alexander >builder to do his inspections for him. > >Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR >jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com ------------------------------------------------------- mailto:gila(at)flash.net Gil Alexander, Los Angeles, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JRWillJR(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 22, 1997
Subject: Re: inspections and annuals-NO
NO, No, NO,---If you are an amateur builder and build a RV or whatever (51%) you the builder can do all maintenance, repairs, modifications etc without any approval or signoff from anyone but yourself. Of course you should apply for the Repairman Cert. for your airplane. Oh, by the way, experimentals do not get Annual Inspections ---they get a Condition Inspection which is done by you the builder with your Repairman Cert. the only auth. you need. Tell your A&P--IA he is mistaken. Rest of what he told you was correct if I understood. Oh no, here we go.Jim A&P.RV4and Kfox. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: tmoradia(at)ix.netcom.com
Date: Sep 21, 1997
Subject: log book software
Sorry everyone, Rick Osgood: Could you please list your e-mail address. I am interested in the beta test for you software. Tony Moradian RV-8 empenage N100TM reserved ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JRWillJR(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 22, 1997
Subject: Re: inspections and annuals
Michael, I am afraid that you must be the builder of record to apply for R. Certificate. Maybe the builder of the airplane you know own will get it or if already has it will keep it. He can then do the signoffs for you if he is willing. Otherwise I fear you must find a friendly A&P who will work with you. Many A&P not know much about Exp. and may be relunctant to work on one . Many as you have discovvered do not know the Regs regarding. Of course you can do many types of Prev. Main .just like any AC owner can legally do.Jim. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Builder's log
Date: Sep 21, 1997
> > >My FAA inspector looked at every page of my builders log and spent nearly 30 >minutes examining the entries. I had a photo album with hundreds of pictures >of the construction including some with me in them with a big smile. He >wasn't very interested in the album. Bottom line: keep a good log of the >owrk that you do. The regs require it. They don't require a photo album. > >Jim Cone >RV-6A flying > > > >OK Jim, now here's the tricky question: Just how MUCH info do they need to see? So far, I've been going over my last two months of work..not real hard, since I work on the plane the same days each week. A typical entry might read: "...Drilled, deburred and clecoed HS rear spar to reinforcement bars. Trued rib flanges and fluted as required. Primered all HS components." Is this sufficient? Do they need to see every painstaking detail fully elaborated upon?! I'm not here to write a novel..just build an RV! But, I can "lay it on thick" if I have to :) So far, I'm getting some wide-ranging inputs on this issue. Perhaps getting a DAR lined up waaaaaay ahead of time...and going along with his/her needs? I sure wish the whole inspection fiasco was outlined in black and white...like the practical test standards...if it ain't written...ya don't have to do it! Seems like too much of a "who ya know, not WHAT you know" that matters here. Gawd, I just LOVE the feds....*smirk* Thanks for everybody's help! With every bit of knowledge I gain from you...yet more questions arise...bear with me..gonna be a looong road...but what a great destination...;) Brian Denk "If Orv and Wilbur had to deal with this..we'd still be just dreamin" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 22, 1997
Subject: Re: Builder's log
<< We had a fellow builder who had placed his nearly completed airplane outside his home. During the night kids came along and torched it. >> Yet another good argument for birth control. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net>
Subject: Bundy
Date: Sep 21, 1997
Bundy did you send me e-mail? Please repond off the list to mcomeaux(at)cmc.net. regards---mike Comeaux ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 1997
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8 Fever
Like they say that free ride is the most expensive one you will ever take:) Michael Irwin wrote: > > > One day 4 hours and 22 minutes ago I was in the middle of a hesitation roll > looking down at the ground through the bubble canopy of Van's yellow -8, > N58RV. Most people would think I'm nut's for leaving at 3:30 am and > getting back at midnight and driving more than 700 miles for a 15 minute > ride, but I know the rest of you out there understand. I've been reliving > every minute of that fifteen minute ride ever since. Somehow, I'm going to > have to focus on my work so I can afford this new addiction. > > Michael Irwin > Planning budget and tools for an -8 > -- Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 1997
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: inspections and annuals
Gil Alexander wrote: > > >Michael > >The IA is wrong about having to have a A&P sign off > >annuals. If you are the owner builder and get a repairman certificate > >from the FAA for your airplane you can do all the work and inspections > >yourself. On a experimental it is called a Condition Inspection*. > >He is right that if you sell the airplane the new owner has to treat > >the airplane the same as if it were a spam can and have a A&P work on > >it with a IA sign off. OR he can bring the airplane back to you..... > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Jerry, > ... not quite right! A mechanic with an A&P rating is sufficient > for an experimental ... NO IA signature is needed. > Learn something new every day:) -- Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Cole <cole(at)iei.net>
Subject: pitot tubing prime?
Date: Sep 22, 1997
Should I prime the 1/4" AL pitot lines that run through the wing, after all it is AL not an alloy. Steve Cole RV-6 Skinning Left Wing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Alexgerry(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 22, 1997
Subject: Fuel and Wing Moments
Regarding the discussion of how fuel affects wing bending moments, the writer is correct that fuel in the wing tip tanks on the C310 tend to unload bending moments. However, the same is not true in the RV's. The reason that the 310's tip tanks unload moment is because they are outboard of the spanwise center of lift of their respective wing panel. The center of mass of the RV wing tank is clearly inboard of the spanwise center of lift of its respective wing panel, and hence does increase wing bending moment. However, it adds less moment than if the entire fuel load were in the center of the fuselage. Alex Peterson 6A fuse. alexgerry(at)aol.com (hopefully soon not on AOL) Maple Grove, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: grihen(at)juno.com
Date: Sep 22, 1997
Subject: Re: Builder's log
<34251F18.3D45DD68(at)datastar.net> Mike, regarding your coverage with AUA. I did not understand the part of your post on the $500 earned and not refundable if something happens. Can you amplify on this? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: inspections and annuals
Date: Sep 22, 1997
charset="iso-8859-1" As far as I know, the builder is the only one who qualifies for the certificate. Steve Soule Huntington, Vermont <<.......I didn't build this airplane. Are you saying there is a way to get a repairman's certificate for this plane, short of getting a full blown A+P license? ......>> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 1997
From: catbird(at)taylortel.com (TTC Carroll A. Bird)
Subject: Re: Tools for RV-Shopsmith
aol.com!MKswing(at)matronics.com wrote: > > > Has anyone ever used a tool called a Shopsmith as a combination drill press > and band saw in conjuction with building your RV? Did you find it adequate? > I have completed an RV-4 airframe and the only drillpress I have used is a Shopsmith that I bought in 1956. It has been rebuilt a few times. Carroll Bird Buffalo Gap TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CHRIS.BROWNE(at)bge.com
Date: Sep 21, 1997
Subject: Octane reduction
One builder I have spoken with chose a 150HP O-320 because of the possibility that 100/100LL will eventually go away. The scuttlebutt is that the fuel industry can't get to 100 without lead, and the EPA enviro-nazis are convinced that the lead in high octane airplane exhaust is destroying mother earth. I think that avgas is the only lead exemption left. Anyone else heard this? If true, it will sure make alot of aircraft engines worthless without expensive modifications to lower the CR and horsepower. Chris Browne RV6A Pre-view Empennage as soon as I reassemble the boat engine... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 1997
From: Keith Warfield <kpwarfield(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator Skins
Martin W. Sailer Jr. wrote: Tom responded that they are available in .020 but did not give a price. > Checked my two year old parts list, .016 elevator skins were $38.00 and rudder was $31.00. Looks like a 4X10 foot sheet of 2024 T3 alclad is approx. $100.00 from Airparts Inc. Anyone know of a lower cost source for alclad? Keith Warfield RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 1997
From: Alan Carroll <carroll(at)geology.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: RV-8 Aerobatics
Jim - thanks; makes sense to me. As I understand your explanation, the fuel does put a shear load on the spar outboard of the fuel's center of mass, but the root bending load is the critical one? Looking at my RV-8 spar and carrythrough, I can't help but be impressed by how little of the spar actually mates with the carrythrough structure, and how few bolts are carrying the load. Must be a pretty impressive bending moment! When they do destructive static testing, is the wing root generally were the failure occurs? (Van's RVator article was didn't really say anything about failure mode, other than it was "as expected") > > >Alan, > >The wing loads are generally limited by wing-root bending moment and shear >load on the spar. Any wing mass located from the root outboard, will tend >to relieve wing root bending moment for most positve "g" manuevers. Even >the wing weight itself helps to reduce root bending moments. To get the >details on the effect of wing fuel on the wing root bending and spar shear >load distribution we would need to rely on Van or one of our more savy >structural oriented engineers out there. I can only present you with a >back of the >envelope equation for an aircraft undergoing 1-g flight or a symmetric >pull-up (ie no roll rate): Alan Carroll RV-8 #80177 (Wings) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 1997
From: Ken Berndt <kberndt(at)badlands.nodak.edu>
Subject: Re: Octane reduction
> > > > > > > One builder I have spoken with chose a 150HP O-320 because of the > possibility that 100/100LL will eventually go away. The scuttlebutt > > RV6A Pre-view > Empennage as soon as I reassemble the boat engine... > > Mr. Browne, I'm not sure that any of your message has any merit. Yes, one can attain 100 octane without lead. But more importantly your attitude toward the EPA offends me and I'm sure many others. Name calling has no place on this site. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 1997
Subject: Re: Builder's log
From: ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy)
>Just how MUCH info do they need to see? So far, I've been going over my >last two months of work..not real hard, since I work on the plane the >same days each week. A typical entry might read: "...Drilled, deburred >and clecoed HS rear spar to reinforcement bars. Trued rib flanges and >fluted as required. Primered all HS components." >Is this sufficient? Everyone that I know has had slightly different scenarios. The FAA inspector that did my airplane spent about 30mins going over the airplane with special emphasis on controls, rod end bearings/connections, and the engine/prop. The only thing that irked me was when he made me take off the spinner and front plate to verify the #'s with the logbook. No big deal, I just would have liked to know ahead of time and it would have been ready. My documentation consisted of a photo album with about 100 pix (he spent about 5 mins on that) and about 10 pages of written info that consisted of: date, time spent, and the assembly. A sample entry might be: 10/27 2.4 fuselage skinning. He spent about 10 mins on that, filled out the paperwork, read me the limitation word for word, congratulated me, then left. Almost a pleasant experience. Your mileage may vary, Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96 ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick_Smith(at)brahms2.tivoli.com
Date: Sep 22, 1997
Subject: Re: Elevator Skins
The RV-8 elevator skins are identical to the RV-6 skins elevator skins except for the thickness. Add the suffix ".020 " to the part number of the RV-6 elevator skin. They are approximately $58.00 each and are prepunched, trailing edge folded etc. The punched hole pattern is the same as the spar. -6 Rick, Working on -6A worldnet.att.net!kpwarfield(at)matronics.com on 09/22/97 08:56:11 AM Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Elevator Skins Martin W. Sailer Jr. wrote: Tom responded that they are available in .020 but did not give a price. > Checked my two year old parts list, .016 elevator skins were $38.00 and rudder was $31.00. Looks like a 4X10 foot sheet of 2024 T3 alclad is approx. $100.00 from Airparts Inc. Anyone know of a lower cost source for alclad? Keith Warfield RV-6A | | "rv-list-request(at)matronics.com" | | & put the word "[un]subscribe" in the | | ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bumflyer(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 22, 1997
Subject: Re: Builder's log
I think everyone is making too much of the builders log. Have never heard of anyone being flunked for a missing or inadequate log! I did this research a long time ago but had my inspection only a few months ago. Therefore I can't quote chapter and verse but here is the essence of my conclusions: While a builders log is technically required there are no guidelines or minimums. My conclusion was the builders log was something the inspector used, among other things (e. g. presence of tools and general knowledge of construction details) to assure himself the applicant was indeed the builder. If they are satisfied through the conversation and actual airframe inspection, they may well not look at either the log or pictures. Mine did not. On the other hand he could obviously tell by my demeanor that I had created this baby. In my early years, the Tech counselor didn't leave me a copy of his inspection report so the log served this very important function also ... A place to record the inspection (and other builder visits) My log is a spiral notebook, handwritten, usually sporadic and frequently filled in at the end of the month in very general terms. Nonetheless it is a truthful diary of my efforts and would have certainly served as legal evidence if needed. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 22, 1997
Subject: Re: Repairman's certificate
<< It is my understanding that if you build an experimental plane and get a repairman's certificate for the plane you built, then essentially you can do everything on you own including repairs, maintenance, modifications and annual condition inspections and certification entry in the plane's log book. On the other hand if you purchase an experimental plane built by another party, then you must use an A&P for the annual inspection ; an AI or IA ( I always reverse the correct order) is not required but, of course, can be used instead of an A&P. But all repairs, maintenance, etc. can be performed by you as the owner of an experimental plane whether you built it or not. Only the annual inspection requires the government licensed individual to act for an experimental plane owned by a non-builder. J. E. Rehler RV6A flying Corpus Christi, Texas >> That is correct, Ryan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CHRIS.BROWNE(at)bge.com
Date: Sep 22, 1997
Subject: Octane reduction
______________________________ Reply Separator ____________________________ _____ Subject: Re: RV-List: Octane reduction Date: 9/22/97 10:07 AM > Mr. Browne, I'm not sure that any of your message has any merit. Yes, one can attain 100 octane without lead. But more importantly your attitude toward the EPA offends me and I'm sure many others. Name calling has no place on this site. My apologies if I offended your sensitivities about the EPA. I agree that it was out of line. While it was merely sarcasm, I regret posting it that way. Chris Browne ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 1997
From: Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8 Aerobatics?
> >I must question the 2G statement. Well, that's what the "G" meter records - and my "seat of the pants" G meter agrees.... Richard E. Bibb RV-4 N144KT Oak Hill, VA rbibb(at)fore.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 1997
From: Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com>
Subject: Re: Builder's log
For the record, I never had a builder's log. Did stick a number of pictures in an album the night before my inspection as well a notebook full of invoices that showed I bought everything. My DAR signed me off OK and I've got 35 hours on since July 25. I would rate my DAR as homebuilt knowledgable and very thorough on things that matter (like construction technique/quality) and not on things that don't effect safety (like paint orange peel). My 2 cents. BTW - I think the EPA is being over zealous on the lead issue, too. But I don't want to start a political flame war - Glad I've got a low compression engine. Richard E. Bibb RV-4 N144KT Oak Hill, VA rbibb(at)fore.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 22, 1997
Subject: Re: Octane reduction
<< . But more importantly your attitude toward the EPA offends me and I'm sure many others. Name calling has no place on this site. >> Lighten up there Ken.......sounds like you must be one of the [Pardon me] enviroNazi's ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 1997
From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil>
Subject: Re: Octane reduction
Ken, Take it easy there! While the "enviro-nazi" label may have been over the top, Chris Browne's comments were not totally without merit. How do you explain a system in which the little guy gets targeted (in this case Gen. Av.) and yet the big oil companies can "buy environmental credits" by crushing old cars? As with any large bureacracy, EPA can tend to get a little over zealous in one particular arena, and miss the big picture. Do you really believe that Gen. Av. is as signficant in contributing to the pollution problem as the airline industry (or any other large business with significant lobby power)? Can you provide numbers to prove it? On a related subject, can one of you engine guys out there tell us if current aircraft engines will suffer the same fate as early car engines did, if and when lead is no longer used in Avgas (i.e. valve wear problems)? If the valve/seats in your $20,000 lycoming wear out prematurely due to EPA mandate is EPA going to pick up the repair bill? Mike Wills RV-4 (wings) willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil But more importantly your attitude >toward the EPA offends me and I'm sure many others. Name calling has no >place on this site. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough)
Date: Sep 22, 1997
Subject: Re: "EXPERIMENTAL" sign location
Just for the Canadians..... I was told to REMOVE the word experimental from my '6A. We don't have an experimental category.. Ken RV6A Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CHRIS.BROWNE(at)bge.com
Date: Sep 22, 1997
Subject: Octane reduction question, reposted and corrected ...
At least one builder I have spoken to chose a 150HP O-320 because of the possibility that 100/100LL will eventually go away. The scuttlebutt is that the fuel industry can't get to 100 without lead while maintaining the fuel performance specifications for certified AC engines which are much different from (if not stricter than?) auto gas. I think that avgas is the only lead exemption left. If true, it will sure make alot of aircraft engines worthless without expensive modifications to lower the CR and horsepower. If it is false, than I imagine it will simply result in more expensive fuel as the refiners recoup the R&D costs needed to recertify their fuel and I'll charge ahead and save for a brand new O-360 from Van. Chris Browne RV6A Pre-view Empennage as soon as I reassemble the boat engine... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 22, 1997
Subject: Re: pitot tubing prime?
<< Should I prime the 1/4" AL pitot lines that run through the wing, after all it is AL not an alloy. >> Not necessary IMO, but what makes you think it's not an alloy? 1100 is pure aluminum. The rolled stuff is generally 3003-0 (aluminum and manganese alloy) and the straight stuff is 5052-0 (aluminum and magnesium alloy), both for use in low to medium pressure fuel and oil lines. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 1997
From: Greg Young <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: Power of the List
For you non-believers who don't appreciate the impact the RV-List can have on your project.. more evidence. For the past year and a half I've drilled thousands of holes always missing my fingers. That is until the recent discussion of finger drilling techniques. In the past week I've mangaged to drill both a #31 and a #41 hole in two fingers. Consistant with the rest of my craftsmanship, they're off center. What I really need to know is: can I prime directly over the dried blood or do I need to Scotchbrite it first? -- Greg Young Citabria N90AV RV-6 s/n 23070 skinning (literally) fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 1997
From: Rick and Barbara Osgood <randbosgood(at)sprintmail.com>
Subject: Builders Software Program
Thanks to all who contacted me regrading testing my software program. I will contact each one soon. After I and my new Beta brains help me shake out the bugs I will ask Matt to post it for download to all. Should be avaialble for download soon Rick Osgood RV6A Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 1997
From: Hamilton McClymont <hammcc(at)istar.ca>
Subject: Re: "EXPERIMENTAL" sign location
> I was told to REMOVE the word experimental from my '6A. > Ken: It was on my first trip to Oshkosh that I noticed that the US homebuilts were "EXPERIMENTAL" while the Canadians had legal documents that said something like "Operating without a Certificate of Airworthiness". Then I remembered the founding principles. On the one hand is "liberty", on the other is "peace, order and good government" Kind of says it all, eh? Cheers, Hammy [CYVR] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CHRIS.BROWNE(at)bge.com
Date: Sep 22, 1997
Subject: Octane reduction
Mike, I'm an auto gearhead, but I can tell you that the elimination of lead in auto fuel was felt most by the valve seats and, to some extent, the cylinder heads and pistons suffered as detonation became common, even "normal". The "fix" was hardened seats, lower CRs, and lower octane ratings, but I'm sure that Lyc and the rest of the industry can stay ahead of that, if they're not already. But that doesn't help the current crop of AC engines. In a car engine, the bearings, cylinder walls, and valve train are adequately lubed by the engine's pressurized oil system. There are just so few, if any, additives that suppress pre-ignition as well as lead yet are so benign, even beneficial, to the engine. While lead provides some incidental lubrication to the cylinder walls and valves, most, maybe all, of the octane boosters today provide no such benefit. Moreover, they can have some seriously negative effects on fuel and intake system corrosion, rubber parts, etc, at the higher concentrations necessary to boost octane to 100. Not to mention the increase in exhaust emissions.... Certainly, refineries can't just dump ANY chemical additive they want into aviation fuel. It would violate ... er ... um ... uh ... government regulations! You are in a bit of a fix with a high CR engine with such critical reliability requirements. Americans are inventive, and I'm sure, eventually, the petrochemical industry will find something, the engine manufacturers will adjust, but at what price and, even more crucially, what overall benefit. Chris Browne - still feeling sheepish... P.S. - Rhetorical to be sure, but if the EPA buys you a TOH, they'll go into your wallet and mine to get the money. What a country. ______________________________ Reply Separator ____________________________ _____ Subject: Re: RV-List: Octane reduction Date: 9/22/97 11:14 AM On a related subject, can one of you engine guys out there tell us if current aircraft engines will suffer the same fate as early car engines did ... If the valve/seats in your $20,000 lycoming wear out prematurely due to EPA mandate is EPA going to pick up the repair bill? Mike Wills RV-4 (wings) willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 1997
From: Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com>
Subject: RV builders in W.N.Y. & Southern Ontario
Hi Everyone, My girl & I will be leaving sunny South Florida for a week vacation in Western New York & Southern Ontario next month (10/3/97 to 10/11/97). We will be enjoying seeing the foliage change color. I would enjoy this even more if there happened to be an RV under the trees I will be admiring! :-) If anyone would be willing to show me their project or completed plane, I would love to see it!(Except 10/5 I'll be at the Bills-Lions football game) Contact me directly at charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com Charlie Kuss swimming back upstream, but I'm all done spawning!!! Boca Raton, Fl. RV-8 empannage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 1997
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: "EXPERIMENTAL" sign location
The FAA wording ("...near each entrance...") is vague enough that you can probably put your EXPERIMENTAL placard anywhere you want. I have seen them on the front of the rollover structure, the back of the baggage cpt, on the outside below the canopy rail, and even stitched into the upholstery. Of course that doesn't mean you won't get some inspector that has a thing about the location of the EXPERIMENTAL placard. But you could drive yourself nuts trying to outguess them on those sorts of things. Randall Henderson, RV-6 randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Sep 22, 1997
Subject: New RV-6 Cowl - no swaps
Bummer news on cowls (I asked Van's if I could swap for the new epoxy cowl)... ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 12:32:40 -0400 From: Vangrunsven <76455.1602(at)compuserve.com> Subject: New Cowl Van has stated that he will NOT be taking old cowls back. His intentions are to convert over entirely to the epoxy cowl as of now. Tom ------------------------------------ Tim Lewis N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 San Antonio TX timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or timrv6a(at)iname.com ------------------------------------ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com>
Subject: Re: Power of the List
Date: Sep 22, 1997
---------- > From: Greg Young <cs-sol.com!gyoung(at)matronics.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Power of the List > What I really need to know is: can I prime directly over the dried blood > or do I need to Scotchbrite it first? > Greg Young BY all means you must Scotchbrite it first since red tends to "bleed" thru. (har har, pun intended). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com>
Subject: Re: Power of the List
Date: Sep 22, 1997
---------- > From: Greg Young <cs-sol.com!gyoung(at)matronics.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Power of the List > What I really need to know is: can I prime directly over the dried blood > or do I need to Scotchbrite it first? > Greg Young BY all means you must Scotchbrite it first since red tends to "bleed" thru. (har har, pun intended). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 1997
Subject: Re: Repairman's certificate
From: tcastella(at)juno.com (Anthony J Castellano)
This is correct. I have the following first hand experience. Having built a Sonerai several years ago for which I hold a repairman certificate and having bought a Bede 4, It was necessary for me to understand the regulations as they apply to both situations. I perform all the maintenance on both aircraft and perform the condition inspection on the Sonerai only. I enlist a A&P mechanic to perform the condition inspection on the Bede 4. Tony Castellano tcastella(at)juno.com Hopewell Junction, NY RV-6 (fuselage now out of jig) writes: > > ><< > It is my understanding that if you build an experimental plane and >get a > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 1997
From: Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Builders log(2)
Brian Denk wrote: > Our local EAA chapter isn't much to get excited about...am not expecting > much assistance from them. But...I'll look into it for insurance > purposes anyway. > Brian You could be from Tallahassee,FL. The local EAA is worthless, they are all fence sitters. they can't stand the fact that someone would biuld an airplane and not be a member of the local chapter. Every time they are around the airport I roll the RV outside just to piss them off. Craig Hiers RV-4 N143CH ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Sep 22, 1997
Subject: Re: RV6AQ build time
> There are some with more skill (I am sure) and more time (I suspect) that > will probably finish in 1-1.5 years. (Captain Lewis is probably right > around the corner if not airborne already). > I replied to Mike (off-list) that I'm at just over 1000 hours on what I now believe to be a 1500-1700 project. I'm probably guessing low on that time estimate. Panel almost done, then engine, cowling, fairings, paint, and fly (after another 1000 little details I'm sure I've overlooked). '98 some time, I hope. Major Tim Lewis (yup, even us ROTC pukes can get promoted) Moving to D.C. in 40 days (have to put the RV on a $#%&^^ truck!) ------------------------------------ Tim Lewis N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 San Antonio TX timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or timrv6a(at)iname.com ------------------------------------ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 1997
From: Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)a.crl.com>
Subject: Re: Workmanship
"Austin Tinckler" wrote: > > I still wasn't prepared when one asked if I was building a canoe and the >other asked in all seriousness which end was the front... My wife and I both get a lot of enjoyment out of watching people's reactions to seeing an airplane in the garage. Sometimes I work with the garage door open and there have been several near collisions on my street from unsuspecting souls rubbernecking as they drive by. Dave Barnhart RV-6 sn 23744 N601DB cowling ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Octane reduction
From: tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com (John T. Craig-Stearman)
Date: Sep 22, 1997
For the record: I hereby loudly and firmly second Chris Browne's characterization of the EPA as "enviro-nazis". I cannot imagine any of those over-zealous beauracrats with their permanent scowls ever flying an airplane, let alone a homebuilt. Is it possible that Ken Berndt is a mole on the RV List? Regards, Tom Craig-Stearman tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com RV-4 wings mounted, builder's tongue firmly planted in cheek writes: >> Mr. Browne, I'm not sure that any of your message has any >merit. Yes, >one can attain 100 octane without lead. But more importantly your >attitude >toward the EPA offends me and I'm sure many others. Name calling has >no >place on this site. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 1997
From: Tom Goettsche <tom(at)rt66.com>
Subject: Re: inspections and annuals
I am currently getting ready to start my HS and am a co-owner/co-builder of our kit. How does this affect the getting of a repairman cert. Do we both petition and receive, or will only one of us be able to aquire a repairman cert. Also how does this affect the 51% rule when it comes time for inspection? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 1997
From: Tom Goettsche <tom(at)rt66.com>
Subject: inspections and annuals
I am currently getting ready to start my HS and am a co-owner/co-builder of our kit. How does this affect the getting of a repairman cert. Do we both petition and receive, or will only one of us be able to aquire a repairman cert. Also how does this affect the 51% rule when it comes time for inspection? tom goettsche just starting and loving it ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Repairman's certificate
From: less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS)
Date: Sep 22, 1997
writes: > > ><< > It is my understanding that if you build an experimental plane and >get a repairman's certificate for the plane you built, then essentially you >can do everything on you own including repairs, (Snip) > > J. E. Rehler RV6A flying Corpus Christi, Texas > >> > That is correct, > Ryan Agreed, with one clarification. Repairs, as in minor repairs. All MAJOR repairs, alterations, etc. require a new airworthiness certificate. Jim Ayers RV-3 LOM M332A Ivoprop VP prop On third airworthiness certificate. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 1997
From: Rhett Westerman <rhettw(at)premier.net>
Subject: Throttle/Mixture bracket and carb heat
Hello all, I am building a GlaStar (0-320) with an RV-6 Exhaust, carb air box and ram air scoop. I have two questions that probably can be answered here by someone on this list. First is regards the throttle/mixture bracket. I saw earlier that the bracket availaible from vans does not work with the AS&S cables. Is this bracket easily modifiable to work with the As&S cables? Or is there another bracket that will work? I am trying to avoid making a bracket from scratch if it has already been done. Second, regards the carb air box. I have the Robbins heat muffs and the Carb air box all mounted. I am wondering how to get the carb heat from the muff to the top plate of the carb air box. I have the door installed in the top plate per the instructions but it did not say how to get the carb heat into the box. It seems the handle for the door will present a bit of a problem. How have others addressed this? BTW, my hangar partner is building an RV-6 and I am now interested in one of these as well. thanks -- ------------------------------------- Rhett Westerman Baton Rouge, Louisiana rhettw(at)premier.net WWW Home Page http://www.premier.net/~rhettw/index.htm ------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 1997
From: Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net>
Subject: Canopy Shade and Sound Insulation for RV-6A
I would appreciate some "consumer reports" or advice on two items: 1. Canopy shade kit by Koger is available from Vans for $149. What has been the field experience with this kit? Worth while...a must have? 2. I am interested in sound insulation to keep the ANR headset from working overtime. Kit from Gallatin, TN, costing around $130 provides "floor/firewall accoustical/flame barrier and insulation." Have any of you had experience with this kit? Is there a more practical or economical approach to sound/heat insulation? Thanks in advance for comments...and I did try the archives for SHADE. A Lister named Shades yielded a bountiful false response. Will Cretsinger cretsinger(at)arlington.net Arlington, TX Finishing fuselage, -6A finish kit inventoried...no deficiencies, thanks to Van's kit craters. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 1997
From: chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net>
Subject: "EXPERIMENTAL"
While were on the subject of placards, does "EXPERIMENTAL" have to be a minimum size and does the placard which has to be displayed in the cockpit in full view of all occupants "PASSENGER WARNING etc" have to be a minimum size? One last thing. On all the paperwork from my local FSDO regarding certification, "Serial Number" is mentioned. Is this my plans number from Vans or since this is my first RV6A would the s/n be 1? -- Chet Razer crazer(at)egyptian.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 1997
From: chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net>
Subject: Wing tip lighting
At a recent flyin I noticed two different ways wing tip lighting has been installed. I'm specifically referring to the light fixtures that house a colored position light, a strobe and and aft facing white light. One method is to build up a pedistal of sorts which makes the light fixture fit sort of square with the wing. The other method is to simply attach the fixture to the sloping underside of the wing tip. Do both methods meet the convergence distances (especially aft) required by FAA for night VFR certification? -- Chet Razer crazer(at)egyptian.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Warren/MK Bishop" <wemkbish(at)nponline.net>
Subject: Empenage Fairing
Date: Sep 22, 1997
A while back there was some discussion about the fiber glass empanage fairings from Van's not fitting well. Bob Skinner offered his solution of taking that fairing and making a mold from it for a one layer layup. This one layer layup (quite flexible) could then be "installed" on your plane and 3 more layers added while on the plane for a "perfect" fit. I was one that did that procedure from Bob's mold before he moved to WY. It worked very well and I'd recommed it to anyone. Contact Bob for further info. Warren Bishop RV-6 Engine stuff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 1997
Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by InfoAve.Net
From: GIBBONSR.FTC-I.NET(at)InfoAve.Net (RB Gibbons)
Subject: RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________ When they do destructive static testing, is the wing root generally were the failure occurs? (Van's RVator article was didn't really say anything about failure mode, other than it was "as expected") Well, I was at Van's the day after they tested the RV-8 wing in the shop. It failed right at 9 G's by kind of crumpling the structure about 3/4 out on the wing. They told me that the kit wing would have fewer lightening holes and maybe longer spar bars or doubler and that it would be stronger than 9 G's. It almost looked as if you could still fly it in the "crumpled" condition but I suppose the aileron would be jammed. RV-8 #80067 Wings and tail complete RB Gibbons ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 1997
From: lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott)
Subject: insurance,:earned
<34251F18.3D45DD68(at)datastar.net> <19970922.063815.12006.0.grihen(at)juno.com> Ther insurance man axplained to me that since they would be covering an airplane that had not yet proved to be airworthy, that the first 500.oo dollars of the policy would be considered "earned". This would mean if something were to happen to the plane during the first period of coverage that they would not refund the first 500.00. It seemed very fair to me since they would cover it from the first test flight. Other companies, including Avemco, I believe, said they wouldn't cover it till it had ten hours on it. If I crash it on the first flight I would be more than happy to forfeit the 500.00 to get the rest of the money I had it insured for. I think the insurance company is taking a big risk. (I mean, uh, I know nothing bad will happen, but they don't.) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 1997
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Re: Workmanship (chatter)
> "Austin Tinckler" wrote: >> >> I still wasn't prepared when one asked if I was building a canoe and the >>other asked in all seriousness which end was the front... My favorite question: "Are you really going to fly that thing?" , to which I reply with a straight face: "No, I'm going to put it in the backyard and turn it into the world's most expensive flower planter." Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash)
Subject: FS: Tools
Date: Sep 23, 1997
rv-list(at)matronics.com Send email to tools(at)pdsig.n2.net for an automatic response of a list of tools for sale. Send email to infobot(at)pdsig.n2.net for a directory of other interesting = stuff! ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Bill Nash `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Aircraft Remanufacturing Corp (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' 1531 Avohill Dr _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Vista, Ca 92084 (760) 749 0239 (((),-'' (((),' (((.-' Email: bjnash(at)pdsig.n2.net http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/index.html =20 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: inspections and annuals
<3425208C.4F3CFC16(at)datastar.net>
From: less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS)
Date: Sep 22, 1997
(Michael C. Lott) writes: > >Hi Jim, >I didn't build this airplane. Are you saying there is a way to get a >repairman's certificate for this plane, short of getting a full blown >A+P license? Michael Hi Michael, I guess I misunderstood. If you built the airplane, you can apply for the Aircraft Repairmen's Certificate. I didn't understand that you had bought the aircraft and hadn't helped build it at all. Jim Ayers ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net>
Subject: Re: Octane reduction
Date: Sep 22, 1997
While we may wonder about 93UL fuel's impact on our LyCon's in the spam cans, consider its impact on a R-2600 at 44" MP or a Merlin at 60+" MP. Those of us in the Warbird world are more than just abit worried. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal dougr(at)petroblend.com www.petroblend.com/dougr ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 1997
From: Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: "EXPERIMENTAL"
> >While were on the subject of placards, does "EXPERIMENTAL" have to be a >minimum size and does the placard which has to be displayed in the >cockpit in full view of all occupants "PASSENGER WARNING etc" have to be >a minimum size? > >One last thing. On all the paperwork from my local FSDO regarding >certification, "Serial Number" is mentioned. Is this my plans number >from Vans or since this is my first RV6A would the s/n be 1? >-- >Chet Razer >crazer(at)egyptian.net Boy ... doesn't anyone read the FARs anymore?? ..:^) It's all in there in black and white, and even on your Internet terminal at:- http://www3.landings.com/cgi-bin/get_file?pass=5325848&FAR/part_45/toc.html "Sec. 45.23 Display of marks; general. (a) Each operator of an aircraft shall display on that aircraft marks consisting of the Roman capital letter "N" (denoting United States registration) followed by the registration number of the aircraft. Each suffix letter used in the marks displayed must also be a Roman capital letter. (b) When marks that include only the Roman capital letter "N" and the registration number are displayed on limited or restricted category aircraft or experimental or provisionally certificated aircraft, the operator shall also display on that aircraft near each entrance to the cabin or cockpit, in letters not less than 2 inches nor more than 6 inches in height, the words "limited," "restricted," "experimental," or "provisional airworthiness," as the case may be. " As far as the serial number, it's up to you and you can use any number you want ... BUT common practise is just to use the serial number assigned to you by the plans maker/kit supplier. In a similar vein, you can use any combination of your name as the manufacturer ( Razer -- Chester Razer -- Razer, Chester ), but the FAA (and your DAR) forms are fussy that all fields match up -- so the easiest thing to do is just use your last name only. The Tech. Counsellor inspection I did last Sat. just before a DAR inspection had his final paperwork held up because he did not abide by this convention and used different variations of his name on different forms. It caused an extra trip, and a days delay, as well as a slightly annoyed DAR. ALSO note the following:- "Sec. 45.11 General. (a) Aircraft and aircraft engines. Aircraft covered under Sec. 21.182 of this chapter must be identified, and each person who manufacturers an aircraft engine under a type or production certificate shall identify that engine, by means of a fireproof plate that has the information specified in Sec. 45.13 of this part marked on it by etching, stamping, engraving, or other approved method of fireproof marking. The identification plate for aircraft must be secured in such a manner that it will not likely be defaced or removed during normal service, or lost or destroyed in an accident. Except as provided in paragraphs (c) and (d) of this section, the aircraft identification plate must be secured to the aircraft fuselage exterior so that it is legible to a person on the ground, and must be either adjacent to and aft of the rear-most entrance door or on the fuselage surface near the tail surfaces. For aircraft engines, the identification plate must be affixed to the engine at an accessible location in such a manner that it will not likely be defaced or removed during normal service, or lost or destroyed in an accident. " AND (PARTIAL) "Sec. 45.13 Identification data. (a) The identification required by Sec. 45.11 (a) and (b) shall include the following information: (1) Builder's name. (2) Model designation. (3) Builder's serial number. (4) Type certificate number, if any. (5) Production certificate number, if any. " These two paragraphs say that the 'large' data plate still being sold by the homebuilders supply houses is no longer required (for example: your address and date of manufacture is NOT needed). I also saw a DAR reject one of these commercial data plates because it wasn't fireproof. So just put in the information needed above, and make sure it's fireproof (stainless). Remember, the DAR/FAA inspector is just following the letter of the law, and the letter is in those FARs! Gil (read those FARs and keep those forms straight) Alexander ------------------------------------------------------- mailto:gila(at)flash.net Gil Alexander, Los Angeles, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 1997
From: <MAILER-DAEMON(at)nysyr.ang.af.mil>
Subject: Undeliverable Message
charset=ISO-8859-1 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 1997
From: <MAILER-DAEMON(at)nysyr.ang.af.mil>
Subject: Undeliverable Message
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 1997
From: <MAILER-DAEMON(at)nysyr.ang.af.mil>
Subject: Undeliverable Message
________________________________________________________________________________
From: BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net (Chris Brooks)
Date: Sep 23, 1997
Subject: Re: Sound Insulation for RV-6A
There are 2 local RV6's that I know of using the sound insulation, and they are happy with it. I've visited with John who sells the kit and seen his RV6 project. He seems to have done his homework on material selection, and supplys a special tape for installation. I believe he has taken a decimeter up in a -6 before and after installation to verify results. I plan on using it in mine. Chris Brooks BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 1997
From: Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Re: New RV-6 Cowl - no swaps
>------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- >Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 12:32:40 -0400 >From: Vangrunsven <76455.1602(at)compuserve.com> >Subject: New Cowl >To: "INTERNET:timrv6a(at)iname.com" > >Van has stated that he will NOT be taking old cowls back. His intentions >are to convert over entirely to the epoxy cowl as of now. Tim, Did they quote a price if it was bought outright? Have a good day! Denny, RV-6 (R)N641DH Lebanon, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 1997
From: Bob Moore <bobmoore(at)wwd.net>
Subject: Re: insurance,:earned
<34251F18.3D45DD68(at)datastar.net> <19970922.063815.12006.0.grihen(at)juno.com> <34273C76.19B78DCF(at)datastar.net> Michael C. Lott wrote: > Ther insurance man axplained to me that since they would be covering an > airplane that had not yet proved to be airworthy, that the first 500.oo > dollars of the policy would be considered "earned". This would mean if > something were to happen to the plane during the first period of > coverage that they would not refund the first 500.00. Ah ha, sounds to me like a $500 "deductable" policy. Bob Moore ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 23, 1997
Subject: Re: Canopy Shade and Sound Insulation for RV-6A
<< I would appreciate some "consumer reports" or advice on two items: 1. Canopy shade kit by Koger is available from Vans for $149. What has been the field experience with this kit? Worth while...a must have? I have some static cling shade material on my bird. Check the photos in Sport Aviation. It is black with actual holes in it, so it will sort of conform to the canopy compound curve- I did have to split it down the middle. I think the -6 would be OK, because you would have a pc on the rt & lt. I got this part at Wal-Mart, suppliers of many a/c parts. It is intended for the rear window of a pickup. $17. Fit it to the OUTSIDE of your canopy first, and transfer it to the inside. 2. I am interested in sound insulation to keep the ANR headset from working overtime. Kit from Gallatin, TN, costing around $130 provides "floor/firewall accoustical/flame barrier and insulation." Have any of you had experience with this kit? Is there a more practical or economical approach to sound/heat insulation? I helped finish a -4, already equipped with this stuff, and I know of a Rocket with the kit, also. Both a/c had a slight fuel leak inside at initial pressure test. The insulation did a fine job of soaking the fuel up. Yuk. So it was removed. I used some 3/8 thick, aluminum faced (on both sides) mat'l from Summit Racing, about $30 for a pc 4' x 6' .p/n TRU-3100, 1-800-230-3030 >> Check six! Mark HR 2 180 hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 1997
From: Greg Young <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: Re: "EXPERIMENTAL"
Gil Alexander wrote: > > "Sec. 45.23 Display of marks; general. > > (a) Each operator of an aircraft shall display on that aircraft marks > consisting of the Roman capital letter "N" (denoting United States > registration) followed by the > registration number of the aircraft. Each suffix letter used in the marks > displayed must also be a Roman capital letter. > (b) When marks that include only the Roman capital letter "N" and the > registration number are displayed on limited or restricted category > aircraft or experimental or > provisionally certificated aircraft, the operator shall also display on > that aircraft near each entrance to the cabin or cockpit, in letters not > less than 2 inches nor more > than 6 inches in height, the words "limited," "restricted," "experimental," > or "provisional airworthiness," as the case may be. " > Gil, Thanks for the reference, got me curious about "only the Roman capital letter "N"" so I searched a little further and found: ----------------- "Sec. 45.22 Exhibition, antique, and other aircraft: Special rules. (b) A small U.S.-registered aircraft built at least 30 years ago or a U.S.- registered aircraft for which an experimental certificate has been issued under Sec. 21.191(d) or 21.191(g) for operation as an exhibition aircraft or as an amateur-built aircraft and which has the same external configuration as an aircraft built at least 30 years ago may be operated without displaying marks in accordance with Secs. 45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33 if: (1) It displays in accordance with Sec. 45.21(c) marks at least 2 inches high on each side of the fuselage or vertical tail surface consisting of the Roman capital letter "N" followed by: (i) The U.S. registration number of the aircraft; or (ii) The symbol appropriate to the airworthiness certificate of the aircraft ("C", standard; "R", restricted; "L", limited; or "X", experimental) followed by the U.S. registration number of the aircraft;" ------------------ Based on this it appears you could display your registration number as "NX999RV" and not have to have the "EXPERIMENTAL" sign. Has anyone tried this? What was your experience with FAA/DARs? -- Greg Young Citabria N90AV RV-6 s/n 23070 skinning fuselage, drilling fingers ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 23, 1997
Subject: Re: Throttle/Mixture bracket and carb heat
<< I saw earlier that the bracket availaible from vans does not work with the AS&S cables. Is this bracket easily modifiable to work with the As&S cables? Or is there another bracket that will work? I am trying to avoid making a bracket from scratch if it has already been done.>> I have a drawing to help you fab one that will work. I also have one for the prop governor. E-mail me with your address and I will send them. << Second, regards the carb air box. I have the Robbins heat muffs and the Carb air box all mounted. I am wondering how to get the carb heat from the muff to the top plate of the carb air box. I have the door installed in the top plate per the instructions but it did not say how to get the carb heat into the box. It seems the handle for the door will present a bit of a problem. How have others addressed this? >> Rick made me a 2" dia flange to mount on the airbox. It is simply a 4" piece of 2" tubing butt welded in the center of a 4" x 4" piece of .032 sheet. I put four 1" holes around the tube to allow air to flow thru when alt air is not used. You place it slightly to the left of center so that you can slot the sheet for the actuating handle. Works great. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash)
Subject: Re: Sound Insulation for RV-6A
Date: Sep 23, 1997
>> >>There are 2 local RV6's that I know of using the sound insulation, and >>they are happy with it. >> We've updated and revised our popular free booklet: "How To Soundproof Light Aircraft". This "HOW TO" manual is written for the aircraft mechanic, but is simple enough for the homebuilder. Covers materials, application and fire safety, FAA regulations, certs, sources, etc. get a text file of it (no illustrations) by return e-mail from our auto-responder MAILBOT: soundprf(at)pdsig.n2.net =20 with "Booklet" in the text message. Or send your name and address for a free hard copy (with illustrations) by return US mail. Send email to infobot(at)pdsig.n2.net for a directory of other interesting = stuff! ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Bill Nash `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Aircraft Remanufacturing Corp (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' 1531 Avohill Dr _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Vista, Ca 92084 (760) 749 0239 (((),-'' (((),' (((.-' Email: bjnash(at)pdsig.n2.net http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/index.html =20 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 1997
From: lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott)
Subject: Re: insurance,:earned
<34251F18.3D45DD68(at)datastar.net> <19970922.063815.12006.0.grihen(at)juno.com> <34273C76.19B78DCF(at)datastar.net> <3427B919.2673(at)wwd.net> Hi Bob, It's only a one time thing. I think it is worth the 500.00 to be covered from the first flight. Has anyone else come up with a better policy? If I didn't have coverage for the first 10 hours, I would be thinking about more than just flying the plane. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moore, Robert" <RMoore(at)aus.etn.com>
Subject: RV-8 Aerobatics?
Date: Sep 23, 1997
><< What is a lumchevfok?? >> > >It's actually lomchevok (I'm fairly certain of the spelling but I could be >one character off) and is supposedly Polish for headache. It is an ass over >tea kettle manuever on the upswing like approaching a hammerhead and then >going kattywumpus. > Oh, thank you, I understand now ... except, what's a kattywumpus? Bob Moore >Austin, Texas ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 1997
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: Cutting parts
I've used my table saw with fine results. I believe the blade is a planer but I first used a dull plywood blade which made rough edges. I suspect a sharp one would have done better. I can double check the blade type if anyone is interested. Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Auto engines on MWF, Lycomings on TTS halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC > > A table saw will work fine with either a non-ferrous metal blade or a good carbide blade. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 1997
From: Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net>
Subject: Re: RV-8 Aerobatics?
Moore, Robert wrote: > Oh, thank you, I understand now ... except, what's a kattywumpus? Bob-- Check out drawing PP-21, detail AA-1b, for how to fabricate a kattywumpus. I think it's made from .032", but you'd better double check that. Be sure to countersink, not dimple, or "severe distortion will result," as the instructions warn. If that happens, don't sweat it--you can always use it as a spare thingamajig. --Don McNamara wangs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kerrjb(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 23, 1997
Subject: Plumbing shackles for jack point
The Feb 97 Rvator shows Alex Sloan using a plumbing shackle as a jacking point and I have been trying local plumbing shops to buy one. They apparently are not common use items for plumbers anymore. Does anyone know a source? Bernie Kerr, RV6A skinning the wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: Anodizing parts
Date: Sep 23, 1997
Fellow Listers, How are aluminum parts anodized? Inquiring minds want to know. Steve Soule Huntington, Vermont ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 1997
From: Ken Berndt <kberndt(at)badlands.nodak.edu>
A few days ago someone mentioned sound control in the cockpit. The stereo industry can help us in this regard. A material called Dynamat is used to super insulate and deaden automotive sound installations. This material can be purchased from an electronics distributer or if you have lotsa bucks, your automotive sound installer. MCM Electronics-1-800-543-4330 is a good source for this material as well as other syles made by other manufacturers. I see a material in there called SDS that sells for 1/10 as much as Dynamat but I don't have any idea if it works as well. Good luck ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 1997
From: Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8 Aerobatics?
> > > Moore, Robert wrote: > > Oh, thank you, I understand now ... except, what's a kattywumpus? > I've always understood "kattywumpus" to mean uneven or crooked. Used in a sentance; I fornaskewed the thingus and now the frammus is all kattywumpus to the whatsit. Chris ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 1997
From: Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com>
Subject: Re: Workmanship
Nice post, Austin, keep us all informed of your progress. John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: grihen(at)juno.com
Date: Sep 23, 1997
Subject: 0-320 H2AD installation
If there is currently anyone on the list that has installed a H2AD engine in a RV6, please respond with phone # so that I can talk with you about cowling and baffles. John Henley RV6 Engine hung and working on cowling ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 1997
Subject: Re: inspections and annuals
<3427180C.B371E750(at)rt66.com>
From: tcastella(at)juno.com (Anthony J Castellano)
Only one of you can get a repairman certificate and perform condition inspections , but both of you can do maintenance. It's OK for more than one person to build an airplane and still meet the 51% rule. Tony Castellano tcastella(at)juno.com Hopewell Junction, NY RV-6 (fuselage now out of jig) writes: > >I am currently getting ready to start my HS and am a >co-owner/co-builder >of our kit. How does this affect the getting of a repairman cert. Do >we both petition and receive, or will only one of us be able to aquire >a >repairman cert. > >Also how does this affect the 51% rule when it comes time for >inspection? > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ShelbyRV6A(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 23, 1997
Subject: Re: Anodizing parts
In a message dated 9/23/97 8:11:56 PM, you wrote: <> I just downloaded this the other day from Compuserve. This should get you started. From: John D. Taupier, 71732,2672 Topic: Anodizing Msg #1332077 Section: Homebuilt Corner [12] Forum: AVSIG Date: Thu, Sep 18, 1997, 10:23:30 PM I've been away and wasn't able to get this together until tonight. .. exposed aluminum parts, not anodized, will corrode. He strongly recommends anodizing and insists that it is easy and fun (?) to do. All you need: 1 gallon plastic jug cut off to make a bucket. 1 gallon of battery acid (H2SO4) at a specific gravity of 1.10. A lead plate a little larger than the parts to be anodized. (Aluminum foil will work also, but lead lasts longer) 12 volt battery charger (6 amps is best). Pure, soft aluminum wire. (Aluminum Welding Wire) Trisodium phosphate (TSP) available at hardware stores, diluted .80 ounces per gallon of water. CLEANLINESS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO SUCCESS. He used wooden tongs and chop sticks to handle all parts after cleaning and proceeded in the following way: Degrease all parts to be anodized. Heat TSP to boiling, cool to just under boiling, immerse parts 3 minutes. Water rinse avoiding touching the parts. TSP is better than acetone, but an acetone pre-rinse is good. TO ANODIZE: Positive lead to parts Negative lead to lead plate. USE THE ALUMINUM WIRE. A good contact is the secret to success. Gas bubbles evolving from the lead plate proves that anodizing is occurring. Leave parts in the anodize process 25 to 30 minutes. Water rinse. Boil parts for 10 minutes in tap water to seal the anodizing. Add RIT clothes dye to the water (I tried about 1 tsp/quart) to give a nice color and more importantly, to demonstrate that the piece was evenly done, that the piece was properly done. The dye cannot be reused, unless you are willing to have a variety of shades. The only caution note is to be careful with the acid. It is not a strong acid, but acid is acid and can burn, therefore use personal protection of skin and clothing and in event of an acid spill, wash thoroughly in baking soda and water. If you wear good clothes, you will make holes in them! A rubber apron helps. I did small parts in a SOLID, ALL-GLASS aquarium. Tubing was done inside two large PVC pipes - one inside the other. The inner one had holes drilled in it. The aluminum foil, or lead foil was between the two pipes and the item was inside the inner pipe. You need to install a drain plug or valve in the bottom so you are not balancing and pouring acid in your hanger. After a good rinse, you can do the boiling water soak in the pipe also. Again, the valve is essential. Think it through before you do it. John Passing on information. Shelby in Nashville. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 1997
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: Anodizing parts
It is an electrochemical process. The parts are the anodes - hooked to the plus side of the battery or other DC source. Parts are treated to have an oxide surface which is then dyed. Memory is flakey here. I have a book on metalworking as art which describes the process so that you could do it at home. A friend said his son did it in a high school science class. Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Auto engines on MWF, Lycomings on TTS halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 1997
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Anodizing parts
> How are aluminum parts anodized? Inquiring minds want to know. It's an electrochemical process. Check the archives, there are some pretty good write-ups on it in there. You probably want to search for "anodyzing" AND "anodizing". Randall Henderson, RV-6 randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 1997
From: wmills(at)southwind.net (William H. Mills)
Subject: Re: Octane Reduction
Just my $0.02 on the subject... I am no EPA fan (I'm more of the mind Chris and Tom are on the subject), but I wouldn't put the whole thing on their shoulders; they just pushed the timetable up. Considering the special handling that leaded aviation fuel requires (partly because it's "aviation fuel" and partly because it's leaded fuel in an essentially unleaded fuel world, requiring its own tanks, piping, trucks, etc.) and the relatively small volumes produced relative to unleaded automotive gasolines, it's only a matter of time before we'd be facing this predicament solely due to economic reasons: few refineries want to mess with avgas at this point, and once it becomes cost-prohibitive for the remaining refineries to mess with it, either due to small market, cost to do all the handling, the leaded-gas-only apparatus, government-mandated taxes/levies/you name it, it's history. This is not a trivial problem. As you know, there is a fairly substantial effort going on right now, jointly between the refiners, airframers (Cessna, Raytheon, for example), engine manufacturers, FAA, EAA, and others, to try and formulate an unleaded replacement for 100LL...and it does not look like a full 100-octane replacement will be available (93UL is what it looks like will be forthcoming; I believe they're currently running the tests on it even as we correspond). EAA may have been more foresightful than they even realized by their auto fuel STC work; that gives a fairly good-sized proportion of the piston engine population a viable alternate fuel right now...unfortunately, their solution is of little help to those who really do need the high-octane stuff (Doug: all I can suggest for the warbird crowd is really reduced manifold pressures, stockpile the stuff, or run nitromethane and realize it'll be one heck of a ride...for a very short time). It was suggested that octane enhancers (other than tetraethyl lead) were available to make a 100LL replacement; I'd strongly suggest that the effort mentioned above would show that to be another rosy prediction from those who are interested in advancing an agenda but don't really grasp the true nature of the problem (there are a host of other examples of this kind of thinking). One thing to keep in mind: any additive that you'd care to name has to be shown to be safe for whatever is going to contain, convey, or use the resulting mixture in whatever concentrations are likely to occur; many of these compounds aggressively attack things like rubber and/or plastic components, which obviously is not good for fuel system components. In the certificated aircraft world, we have to test each and every one of the types of fuels we intend to certificate the aircraft for use with, including additives; it doesn't matter how similar the fuel or additive is to what is already used...it must be tested to show no adverse effects on any component of the aircraft fuel system or engine. That's a big part of the research being done right now, as well. One ray of hope exists (and I'm not saying it's the only one): many of the engines we use are actually designed for 96 octane (the old blue gas), not 100. It is possible they will run fine as-is with the 93UL. It is also possible that this will force Lycoming and Continental to certify their engines with truly modern ignition systems that include the knock-sensors, electronic ignition, and other technologies that are commonplace on modern auto engines. Bill Mills ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 1997
From: "John Musser" <jemusser(at)tenet.edu>
Subject: Re: Builders Log - Software
I, too am interested if you haven't enough interest as yet! John > >I am building an RV6A and I also teach various computer programming at a >local college. I started working on a software program to track my own >building progress and thought others could use it as well. My program is >designed to track the following and maybe more: > >* Work done by section (Tail, Wings, Fuselage, etc.) You can break these >down further also >* Expenses incurred (Tools, parts, services). You may also add to or >modify these >* Track where things were bought from, serial numbers, warranty >* Print a logbook type report by any sorting you need >* Tracks insurance info >* Tracks any tax owed the state. A sup rise at registration time if you >haven't paid.... >* A maintenance and repair section is under way and also a prop log > >I will be offering this to the RV-List in the near future as shareware. >Meaning you try it and if you like it you can pay me something for it. I >have not set any price yet. > >I would like to ask for 5 builders to be my Beta testers. >Please e-mail me off list so we can discuss > >Minimum requirements as beta tester > >Windows 95 >2 mb hard disk space >8 mb memory > >Rick Osgood >RV6A wings > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 1997
From: John McMahon <rv6(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Canopy Shade and Sound Insulation for RV-6A
Will Cretsinger wrote: > > > I would appreciate some "consumer reports" or advice on two items: > > > 2. I am interested in sound insulation to keep the ANR headset from > working overtime. Kit from Gallatin, TN, costing around $130 provides > > "floor/firewall accoustical/flame barrier and insulation." Have any > of > you had experience with this kit? Is there a more practical or > economical approach Thanks in advance for comments...and I did try the > archives for SHADE. > A Lister named Shades yielded a bountiful false response.to sound/heat > insulation? > > > > Will Cretsinger > cretsinger(at)arlington.net > Arlington, TX > Finishing fuselage, -6A finish kit inventoried...no deficiencies, > thanks > to Van's kit craters. > Will The sound kit does work well !!!! > John ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 1997
From: "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com>
Subject: "EXPERIMENTAL"
I don't think that our RVs would qualify under this rule as they are not of "the same external configuration as an aircraft built at least 30 years ago". At least not yet. Additionally, I have read about a restriction on amateur-built aircraft using the "X" symbol, but I don't have the reference at hand. In regard to the original post, I too used 2 inch letters across the upper baggage bulkhead in my RV-6A. The passenger warning was placed on the panel using a placard transfer from either Wicks or Wag-Aero. Les Williams "Sec. 45.22 Exhibition, antique, and other aircraft: Special rules. (b) A small U.S.-registered aircraft built at least 30 years ago or a U.S.- registered aircraft for which an experimental certificate has been issued under Sec. 21.191(d) or 21.191(g) for operation as an exhibition aircraft or as an amateur-built aircraft and which has the same external configuration as an aircraft built at least 30 years ago may be operated without displaying marks in accordance with Secs. 45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33 if: (1) It displays in accordance with Sec. 45.21(c) marks at least 2 inches high on each side of the fuselage or vertical tail surface consisting of the Roman capital letter "N" followed by: (i) The U.S. registration number of the aircraft; or (ii) The symbol appropriate to the airworthiness certificate of the aircraft ("C", standard; "R", restricted; "L", limited; or "X", experimental) followed by the U.S. registration number of the aircraft;" ------------------ Based on this it appears you could display your registration number as "NX999RV" and not have to have the "EXPERIMENTAL" sign. Has anyone tried this? What was your experience with FAA/DARs? -- Greg Young Citabria N90AV RV-6 s/n 23070 skinning fuselage, drilling fingers ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 1997
From: "Larry D. Hoatson" <lhoatson(at)e2.empirenet.com>
Subject: Re:
> A material called Dynamat <>> Has this product been tested for flammability?Larry -- Larry D. Hoatson Yucaipa, CA Redlands (L12) Airport lhoatson(at)empirenet.com Restoring 1950 Cessna 170A N9948A... Looking forward to RV-6 "Either Raise Your Skill Level... or Lower Your Standards" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darrell L. Anderson" <d.l.anderson(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Tools for RV-Shopsmith
Date: Apr 01, 1997
Has anyone ever used a tool called a Shopsmith as a combination drill press and band saw in conjuction with building your RV? Did you find it adequate? Mike Kiess/RV6AQ kit on the way! Yes, I am (ab)using my Shopsmith cutting metal for my RV-4. Good points: One tool does both jobs. An adequate bandsaw and drill press. You only pay for one motor. Instant variable speed...no ratios to change. It rolls away for storage. I use the strip belt sander for some deburring and trimming. I also used the table saw and a thin-rim veneer blade to taper the ends of the spar bars...worked great! The 12" disk sander can be used at the same time as the bandsaw. Make your cut, then clean it up on the sander. Bad points: The table on my vintage Shopsmith (Mark V) is somewhat 'springy' in the drill press mode. If you have to really bear down, as in drilling your tailwheel spring, you lose accuracy. The newest model has table supports that adjust to the floor to support the outside edge of the table. The Shopsmith bandsaw and table saw (drill press) use aluminum tables and so are scratched up by aluminum filings and rough edges. I cover my tables with adhesive plastic for some protection You can't use the bandsaw and the vertical drill press mode at the same time, but conversion from one to the other takes only a minute. For both the bandsaw and drilling, the lowest variable speed setting is a little too fast for even aluminum, WAAAAY too fast for steel. They offer a geared reduction unit to slow it down (more $$$). The bandsaw takes 70" blades, non-standard with other brands, and not available everywhere. 70" real metal cutting blades are rare, must be custom made or ordered. The Shopsmith was *there* when I started building, but if I was looking for just a bandsaw and a drill press, I think I could get both for less than the basic Shopsmith. Now, if you want to talk woodworking.....that's a whole different story. Darrell Anderson RV-4 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darrell L. Anderson" <d.l.anderson(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Torque wrench
Date: Apr 01, 1997
Hi all, I figured someone else would have mentioned this before, but since no one has, here goes. When using a "click" type torque wrench it is IMPRETITIVE to reset the wrench to zero when you are done. Charlie Kuss Boca Raton, Fl. RV-8 empannage The military teaches, "...reset the wrench to the lowest setting." I.e.., a 250-1200 in-lb. wrench is reset to 250 when you're done. You don't want to unscrew the adjuster all the way to zero. I think that was your point. Darrell Anderson making a career out of RV-4 wings. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darrell L. Anderson" <d.l.anderson(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Unsubscribing
Date: Apr 01, 1997
Can someone e-mail off the list and explain or show me how to unsubsribe? Mike Comeaux-----------mcomeaux(at)cmc.net You're puling' our leg, right? If not, read below, again. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 1997
From: Bruce Bockius <elrond(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: Octane reduction
John T. Craig-Stearman wrote: > For the record: I hereby loudly and firmly second Chris Browne's > characterization of the EPA as "enviro-nazis". I cannot imagine any > of > those over-zealous beauracrats with their permanent scowls ever flying > an > airplane, let alone a homebuilt. Is it possible that Ken Berndt is a > mole on the RV List? > Regards, > Tom Craig-Stearman > tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com > RV-4 wings mounted, builder's tongue firmly planted in cheek Most definately not to defend the EPA, but if you look in the letters to the editor of the September issue of SA, you will find that Bruce Jordan, Director of the EPA is a 'longtime' member of the EAA. -Bruce ------------------------------------------- Bruce Bockius elrond(at)europa.com Hillsboro, OR, USA http://www.europa.com/~elrond ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MKswing(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 24, 1997
Subject: Ride-NE RV Builders Forum
Anyone in the NY/NJ metro area heading up to the RV builders forum in Fulton this weekend-I would be more than happy to share/pay for expenses. It's a looong drive. I'm a 20 hour student pilot with an RV-6AQ kit on the way! Regards-Mike Kiess ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pbennett(at)zip.com.au
Date: Sep 24, 1997
Subject: RV-8 Aerobatics?
> ><< What is a lumchevfok?? >> > > > >It's actually lomchevok(snip) The aerobatic manoeuvre is a "lomcevak". A "lumchevfok" is the act of making love with your mouth full of sandwich. Peter Bennett Sydney Australia RV6 doing the fiddly bits before engine ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CHRIS.BROWNE(at)bge.com
Date: Sep 24, 1997
Subject: Franklin Engine
Is anyone out there share my interest in a Franklin 6 cylinder in a -6/6A? I had a pleasant discussion with Pat Goodman at Atlas Motors (the importer), and apparently there has been interest, but no takers. Pat says the Franklin is a very simple motor which is only 3/4" longer than a Lyc and 351.2 pounds with accessories. It is certified, 205HP nominal, has no prop speed limits, 1500 hrs TBO, and costs $12,000 bare. Baffling is apparently simple, and they have been installed in Compairs and Velocities with only two failures (same guy multiple times - installation problem maybe?) I don't know how much a O-360 weighs, and I know installing a Franklin will involve a custom engine mount and probably cowl mods, but it still sounds interesting. Heck, if you can put a Chevy in there which is 60#lbs more than a Lyc. Chris Browne Empennage real soon... ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re:
From: wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen)
Date: Sep 24, 1997
Question: Does this stuff meet the FAA fire resistance test criteria???? Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV (Working on 2'd RV-6A - Chevy Powered!) wstucklen1(at)juno.com writes: > >A few days ago someone mentioned sound control in the cockpit. The stereo >industry can help us in this regard. A material called Dynamat is used to >super insulate and deaden automotive sound installations. This material can >be purchased from an electronics distributer or if you have lotsa bucks, >your automotive sound installer. MCM Electronics-1-800-543-4330 is a good >source for this material as well as other syles made by other manufacturers. >I see a material in there called SDS that sells for 1/10 as much as Dynamat >but I don't have any idea if it works as well. >Good luck > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AB320FLYER(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 24, 1997
Subject: Wiring
I would like some feedback from anyone who might have used Van's everything you need, handy-dandy wiring kit. Was there enough of everything, what type of connectors were supplied, and did you consider it a good value? Thanks. Joel Harding (8004) ab320flyer(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 24, 1997
Subject: Re: N numbers Size
I just want to be absolutely clear before I have my plane painted. If the RV cruises below 200 mph (knots?) the N numbers can be small and still be able to cross the borders, right? Asked another way, do I need to put 12" characters on the plane if I go across the US borders at slower than 200 mph (knots?)? TIA -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Cafgef(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 24, 1997
Subject: Re: Octane reduction
<< the "enviro-nazi" label >> Any group with a lot of power is going to miss-use that power at some time. Part of the old truism of power corrupts, etc. But on the subject of lead; how much of the lead from the lead-acid batteries that will power all those new electric cars in California will end up invading our environment? There must be 20 or 30 batteries in one of those new so-called cars. Multiply that by how many the California EPA has mandated and tell me that will not have an impact on the lead in our lives. Gene Francis cafgef(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 1997
From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil>
Subject: Re: Dynamat
I dont know if you have ever used Dynamat before, but I have. The stuff is very effective, but HEAVY!!! I understand there is a lighter weight version now available, but have also heard that with the reduced weight comes reduced effectiveness. Mike Wills RV-4(wings) willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil > >A few days ago someone mentioned sound control in the cockpit. The stereo >industry can help us in this regard. A material called Dynamat is used to >super insulate and deaden automotive sound installations. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 1997
From: Cheryl Sanchez <csanchez(at)mailhost.avici.com>
Subject: Exhaust gate temp gauge location?
Hi, I am getting ready to install my exhaust gas temp. gauges and my question is: how far should they be from the top of the exhaust pipe? I looked at my documentation but there is no mention of this. Thanks. Cheryl Sanchez csanchez(at)world.std.com RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: VFR Routes Thru The Rockies
From: ron.taborek(at)flight642.com (RON TABOREK)
Date: Sep 24, 1997
I would appreciate some advice from pilots experienced flying VFR through the Rocky Mtns. in the northern US and Southern Canada. A friend of mine and I are planning an excursion during the first week in October from Toronto through the northern US to the west coast and back through southern Canada. It will be VFR and we have no fixed routing. We will be in a Pazmany PL-2, (O-320, all metal, two seater, low wing, 120 kt TAS cruise. What I am interested in is locating routes with relatively low mountains, wide passes, good weather and diversionary airports. Looking at the maps it appears we have these options. WESTWARD THRU THE US ROCKIES 1) From Salt Lake City roughly following I-80 to Reno and the San Francisco area. 2) From Salt Lake City roughly following I-84 to Boise, Pendelton and Seattle. NORTHWARD ALONG THE PACIFIC 1) San Francisco area along the coast to Vancouver BC. 2) San Francisco area roughly along I-5 to Vancouver BC. EASTWARD THRU CANADA 1) Vancouver BC to Kelowna, Golden and Calgary, roughly following the Trans Canada hiway. 2) Vancouver BC to Penticton, Cranbrooke and Lethbridge. Comments on these or preferred route would be appreciated. Please email direct to me at ron.taborek(at)flight642.com. I'll provide a summary to those interested. Please let me know. Ron Taborek Toronto RV-4 Installing O-320 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash)
Subject: RE:Dynamat, other automotive materials
Date: Sep 24, 1997
DynaMat and other similar types of materials is available from auto body paint shops and is quite expensive. It comes in small squares and has an adhesive on one side protected by a peel off plastic. Any material such as this is somewhat effective for sound proofing, but has some drawbacks. It is similar to our material we call "Hood liner" we sell for $20 a sheet. 48"X 64" about 3/8" thick. Any material can simply be tested for flammability by using a match, it should not continue to burn when the flame is removed or it is not suitable.... Our free booklet "How to Sound proof Aircraft": is available by auto responder from soundprf(at)pdsig.n2.net or send you name and address to me and I'll mail you a hard copy. =20 =20 =20 Send email to infobot(at)pdsig.n2.net for a directory of other interesting = stuff! ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Bill Nash `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Aircraft Remanufacturing Corp (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' 1531 Avohill Dr _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Vista, Ca 92084 (760) 749 0239 (((),-'' (((),' (((.-' Email: bjnash(at)pdsig.n2.net http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/index.html =20 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 1997
From: Donald DiPaula <dipaula(at)access.digex.net>
Subject: retractable gear
i'm new to the list, so please forgive me if this subject has been covered before, but i don't see it in the FAQ... on the RV homepage there are two pictures of a canadian RV-4 with retractable gear. can anyone tell me about this? obviously not offered by van's, but it looks really nice... -D- Cynthia Alice DiPaula was born 9 June 1997, 3:36 p.m., 7 lb. 10 oz., 20.5" "Even a single elephant can be destructive." SOLD*My 1988 Mazda MX-6 is for sale, email me if interested*SOLD My 1989 Honda CB-1 (CB400F) is for sale, email me if interested, or read my CB-1 description ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 1997
From: Ken Berndt <kberndt(at)badlands.nodak.edu>
Subject: Re:
> >Question: Does this stuff meet the FAA fire resistance test >criteria???? I don't know, one would need to contact the manfacturer I suppose. I don't need to worry about that problem yet, too far away. But maybe someone could benefit from the info. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Acker" <r.acker(at)thegrid.net>
Subject: Re: 0-320 H2AD installation
Date: Sep 24, 1997
> If there is currently anyone on the list that has installed a H2AD engine > in a RV6, please respond with phone # so that I can talk with you about > cowling and baffles. > > John Henley RV6 > Engine hung and working on cowling John, I myself am not quite to the point you are, but have an H2AD also. If you find information on the cowling and baffles (or wind up making your own drawings), please share. Regards, Rob (RV-6Q). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNES_ERIC(at)tandem.com
Date: Sep 24, 1997
Subject: Re: Octane Reduction - knock sensors
> It is also possible that this will force Lycoming and Continental to ^^^^^ > certify their engines with truly modern ignition systems that include > the knock-sensors, electronic ignition, and other technologies that. > are commonplace on modern auto engines. One clarification - I read, I believe in Sport Aviation, that going to unleaded gas will *allow* the use of knock sensors and the like, which don't work with leaded gas. I'm remaining optimistic (although I'm not running out to buy an IO-360). EB #80131 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: Wiring
Date: Sep 24, 1997
I bought the wiring kit. I basically wanted to "seed" my shop with electrical supplies. It definitely doesn't have everything you'll need to totally wire the plane. I used all the connectors just rewiring the radio in my other plane. Like the other Van's stuff it doesn't have a big markup, and you'll definitely use all the parts. It has flex loom (I ran it through my wings to route the wingtip wiring), wide variety (battery cable to 18ga) diameter wire, some connectors, rubber boots, even some heat shrink tubing. -Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MoeJoe" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: N numbers Size
Date: Sep 24, 1997
charset="iso-8859-1" I think the rule is if it's faster then 200mph, the N numbers must be over 12" high. Better safe then sorry. Moe > >I just want to be absolutely clear before I have my plane painted. If the RV >cruises below 200 mph (knots?) the N numbers can be small and still be able >to cross the borders, right? > >Asked another way, do I need to put 12" characters on the plane if I go >across the US borders at slower than 200 mph (knots?)? > >TIA >-GV > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 24, 1997
Subject: Engine ground locations
I'm looking at my engine trying to decide where to connect the ground wire from my battery. The first location I thought of was to connect it to one of the 1/4" studs or bolts that attach the sump to the engine. Then I started looking at those big 7/16" engine mount bolts. Couldn't the #2 AWG ground wire from the battery be bolted under the head of one of these bolts? After it's re-installed and properly torqued to 450-500 in. lbs., wouldn't this make a suitable ground? Assuming that all of the paint is removed from under the nut and washer on the engine crankcase. I've looked through my copy of the Aerolectric Connection, AC 43-13, Powerplant and Airframe handbooks. Where do most other builders connect their ground wires? Mark LaBoyteaux RV-6a N106RV Mlaboyteau(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 1997
From: David Romuald <DK_Romuald(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Builders classes
Has anyone attended the builders class put on by Avery? If so was it informative and worth the trip? I have no experience in aluminum a/c construction so I thought this would be a good investment prior to starting on my RV-8. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 1997
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com>
Subject: Re: Exhaust gate temp gauge location?
> I am getting ready to install my exhaust gas temp. >gauges and my question is: how far should they be from the >top of the exhaust pipe? I looked at my documentation but >there is no mention of this. > > Thanks. > >Cheryl Sanchez Cheryl, If my memory is correct, I believe they should be installed 3-6" from the exhaust flange. If you have multiple EGT sensors, the most important thing is to keep them the same distance from the top of the pipe. With the Vetterman exhaust, there was only one place to install them so they are all the same distance downstream of the exhaust flange. On two of his pipes, there is a saddle joint. Install the sensors just downstream of this slip joint. This will put them around 6" downstream of the exhaust flange, right near the further limit. You do not want to install them within this slip joint as the sensors will shear off in no time. As long as they are equal distance downstream, they will accurately show an EGT differential and still indicate peak EGT. Hope this helps. Scott Gesele N506RV (finished, still waiting for a $#%^#@# inspection) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ftpserver(at)pdsig.n2.net
Date: Sep 24, 1997
Subject: FILE
We have received your electronic mail request for a file from our system. We are responding with the requested file as an attachment to this message.sysop pdsig.n2.net SOUND PROOFING AIRCRAFT Much has been discussed as well as written about the noisiness of aircraft - inside and out. Because of valid concerns, sound measurements have been made that indicate that sometimes the noise levels are so high in some aircraft that damage to the hearing over the long term can and indeed does result. Elaborate techniques now exist to drastically reduce such noise. While time and expense are important considerations, installing soundproofing is not a luxury; it is an investment in the physical well being of the flyers as well as a valuable upgrade of the aircraft. Information presented here is applicable to all types of planes from "puddle-jumpers" to jets. In a properly soundproofed airplane, the radio can be used with speaker and hand mike, instead of only the headsets. You will even enjoy better direct communications between passengers and will not have to worry about damage to your hearing. An intercom usually won't be necessary. After being properly soundproofed, using the latest space age materials, the noise level in the aircraft will be so low you'll probably be able to have conversations in normal tones. You'll wonder why you ever put up with all the noise before. The quieter aircraft will seem to have gained quality and feel more solid and plusher. Such an improvement should not be considered costly. Before we tell you how to accomplish this, we will discuss some commonly used materials for sound attenuation. Keep in mind that soundproofing involves two (2) concepts that require two different materials: 1. Sound absorption, and 2. Sound blocking, or barrier material. Vibration of the airframe and penetration of sound into the cabin from the engine/prop and airflow over the airframe are three distinct effects and you need to use the proper materials to control them. We have found ordinary "foam rubber" and fiberglass batting to be virtually worthless. "Super Soundproofing" Mat for Sound Absorption: It is a closed cell vinyl/nitrile insulating material which will not absorb water or oil. Materials that absorb liquids are not suitable because if they get wet, they will promote corrosion and increase their weight. The mat also conserves and blocks heat. It has fire retardant qualities and we have the manufacturer's assurance that, in thicknesses over 1/8", it meets the requirements of FAR 25.853b. Therefore, it is suitable for aircraft use. It is available in 48" widths in thicknesses of 1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4 and 1 inch. It may easily be cemented together to make other thicknesses. The Noise Mat Barrier: If one were to make a mat of sound absorbing material thicker and use a metal barrier, it would be very effective in really stopping engine noise coming through the firewall. If ordinary kitchen Reynolds Aluminum Foil is sandwiched between the mats, (use contact cement), most of such noise will be prevented from entering the cabin. A 2" minimum is recommended. Finish Cloths and Vinyls: These are available from your local automotive upholstery wholesaler in a myriad of thicknesses and colors. Most automotive materials will meet some auto industry inflammability requirements, but perhaps not specifically those as applied to aviation. It is the duty of the installer to make sure that applicable F.A.R.s are complied with.. For aircraft applications, you would be interested in thin vinyl materials such as used for automobile headliners and durable cloths that have a thin foam backing. These can easily be drawn tight and contact cemented to the above described soundproofing mats (or backing panels), to produce very attractive, professionally finished surfaces. The use of contact cement in spray cans simplifies application. A heat gun, (hair dryer) will shrink out most wrinkles. Other types of soundproofing materials. A mention should be made here of some other materials marketed by others. One is a white foam material that is provided in a kit, die cut for each aircraft it is designed for.... It has contact cement on one side with a peel-off covering and comes with a diagram as to where each piece fits into the aircraft. This is a very expensive proposition because all this prep work has been done for you and you are charged accordingly. A lot of time is wasted trying to find where each piece fits. These kits can run up to $3000 per aircraft plus lots of installation labor. Another is a lead-backed material developed for the military. It is so expensive and heavy it would not be a contender for installation in light aircraft, even airliners even though it can sometimes be found surplus. Other materials are either not F.A.A. approved, not closed cell material or are far more costly than our proven Super Sound Proofing Mat! Check carefully before you buy! Installation Considerations Each aircraft has its "hot spots". That's certain areas where noise is the loudest. A good soundproofing job would concentrate on these places that are the noisiest by placing more material there. However, in general, the places in a light plane that admit sound most readily are the firewall, cowl forward of the windshield/instrument panel, kickpanels, sidewalls of the cabin, roof and wing-roots. But the honor of the most noisy goes to the windows! When replacing windows, use the thickest material you can find. A thorough soundproofing job would place heavier layers of materials where the sound was the loudest, near the front and lighter insulation aft. The entire cabin should receive the treatment, above, below and all around including doors. In an aircraft that has been flying, the best time to put in this material is when the interior has been removed. Then it can be installed with a minimum of effort. However, an installation can be made piecemeal. That is, section by section, as the budget or time allows, with steadily improving results as more and more of the cabin area is insulated. Some installers might do the doors on a weekend, the firewall on another, etc. In all cases, investigate thoroughly for evidence of corrosion or other damage before applying the batting that might cover it up. While we cannot provide explicit instructions for each and every aircraft, we can give you some general pointers to insure a good, effective job. * Installation; Soundproofing Mat 1. Cut your material to precise size and shape beginning with the largest area to cover. The material comes in different thicknesses to fit inside and to fill the formers and frames, cabin sides and ceiling. We do not recommend using razor blades or knives. They will leave ragged edges. Cut it with an electric knife, the kind that is used for carving turkeys. These are inexpensive home appliance models. We use a Hamilton Beach battery-powered unit. The rechargeable feature is handy where an AC plug-in isn't available, such as out on the aircraft ramp tiedown area. Cut material it a little oversized so that it fits inside the former or frame with a push tight fit. It comes with a smooth "skin" side and a rougher side. Either side can be cemented but the smooth side is more suitable. A dab of contact cement here and there will ensure that it stays put, but it should fit well enough so that is quite tight. Use waterproof contact cement. Do not overdo the cementing because you may want to remove the material someday to look for corrosion, run wires, etc. Use judicious dabs of cement. Use a small brush for this. You must put soundproofing every place where the inside of the skin is exposed, especially on the firewall and inside the upper instrument cowling and kick panel sides forward of the windshield. If it's difficult to cut and fit the material directly because of obstructions, make a little cardboard pattern by which to cut the material. Take your time. Don't get into a hurry. Make it fit as neatly as possible. It goes without saying the material is to be installed only on the cabin side of the firewall! If the firewall is covered with some kind of decorative mickey mouse firewall covering, or fiberglass batting, remove it. It may then be reinstalled, but it's probably better to just leave it off. 2. Use the bits and pieces left over to insulate the smaller remaining spaces. Material can be contact cemented together to make larger pieces, so not much need be wasted. Window frames and 'U' channels can simply be pushed full of the scraps. Leftovers can also be used in the floor access panels by gluing them on the underside of the covers, then reinstalling the panels and access covers. If you have some left over, it's worth it to glue it to the inside of the belly access covers too. Every place sound can enter should be covered as much as possible, but installing the material everywhere inside the underside of the floor many times isn't practical. Don't worry, even without that, the sound reduction will be very impressive. If your plane is apart for repairs or overhaul, or an experimental under construction, a more complete job can be done. However, do not overdo the gluing job. If you do, the material can be difficult to remove if and when inspection is necessary in the future. AN ALTERNATIVE METHOD OF INSTALLATION FOR EVEN GREATER SOUND REDUCTION If your aircraft has 'snap-in' metal or fiberglass upholstery panels that are held in frames, we have had great success with the following method which uses 1/2" or thinner mat material: * Remove all such panels. Or, if you don't have them, make some. Cut your mat materials a bit oversized. Then carefully cement a 1/2" layer of material to the inside backside of the panel. Leave the edge of the soundproofing around the edge slightly loose so that it can slide over the inside flange of the mounting frame. Here, because these panels are nonstructural, and inspection won't be necessary, a full even coating of contact cement on both the panel and mat and then assembly will ensure that the material will not come loose, ever. * Cut and fit thinner insulation material to the inside skin areas same as the application of the material detailed previously. The idea here is to create a sound deadened boxed-in area with a dead-air space between the two insulation layers. This is very effective and lighter, but requires more time and effort. FOR FIRST TIME CONSTRUCTION Those of you building experimentals will have good results by just using the material on the inside of the cockpit area as explained. However, in addition, if you wish to make removable upholstery panels as mentioned above, here's how: * Using either very thin aluminum sheet (.015" is a good thickness), or very thin fiberglass sheet (some call it "tank Liner"), a bit thicker, cut to size of the area you wish to cover. Don't try to make the area to be covered too large or make the panel with curved edges or with compound curves. The squarer, the better. * Pop rivet aluminum "T" "H" or "C" channel, (Obtainable from the Reynolds Aluminum stock rack at your favorite hardware store) to the structure of the area that your panel will be mounted. Cut, fit and trim it so that a fairly loose fit of all four sides of your panel is obtained. The channel you use must have a slot wide enough that will accept the panel and the folded over upholstery material at its edge. It must not fit so tightly that it can't be snapped in or out of place by bowing it. If needed, an upholstery 'snap button' can be judiciously placed to hold it tightly. Now, evenly glue 1/8" or 3/16" soundproofing mat to what is to be the front side of the panel, leaving about an even 1/2" or 3/4" or so, open area up to the edges. This will make a cushioned panel when covered with your automotive finish cloth or vinyl. Lay this upholstery finish covering material over your panel, using it as a pattern and cut it 2-3" oversize. Applying a coating of "Plio-Bond" (or several coats of contact cement) to the metal or plastic then allowing it to dry, will provide a proper base for gluing material to the back edge of your panel. Lay the panel, with soundproof mat down, on the backside of the finish sheet and cement it down to the back of the panel, pulling the wrinkles on the front out gently. Do not glue to the front at all. If you start with the contact cement slightly wet, you can work out the wrinkles very easily. Trim the backside material away evenly and neatly with a razor blade. Leave about 3/4" holding it. This creates a smooth, cu! shioned panel that will snap into your aluminum frame very professionally, better than in factory planes! You may just use thin 1/8" foam rubber available from the upholstery shop instead of the soundproof mat. Put the soundproof mat on the back side of the panel as explained earlier or, even better, to both sides of your panel AND the inside structure for additional "Super" soundproofing. Making a Very Simple Decorative Panel You can simply wrap the mat with your upholstery finish sheeting, just gluing it to the edge of the smooth backside, then gluing the panel in place. The spray on kind of contact cement is very useful here. You can spray and attach it directly to the smooth side if you wish. A little extra attention to the corners of your finish material will be worthwhile for a neat job. A glue like "GOOP" is useful here. Larger Aircraft such as Airliners. Cabin walls will need to be insulated thoroughly in the manner explained above. Many times soundproofing of these types of aircraft is usually done perfunctorily by workers who have no idea what it's all about. Without some knowledge and careful attention to detail the consequence is a soundproofing job that is not very effective. A Special Note About Helicopters An application of the thickest material available (we can supply it up to 2" thick and smaller thicknesses may be contact cemented together for even thicker) installed between the rear cabin and engine/transmission will result in a definite, noticeable noise reduction. Most of the time this is easy to do as these areas are usually quite accessible. It may also be cemented to the inside upper bubble, seat backs and in the underside floor areas for even better results. This may not have a totally silencing effect on the flying noise, but can make conversation possible when on the ground without having to reduce power or use the intercom. The best results will be had by then cementing a layer of Reynolds Aluminum "Noise Barrier' into the mat. Now, About fireproofing ratings The Federal Trade Commission says that there are no existing test methods or standards devised to prove the flammability of any material. Or are there accurate indicators of the performance of cellular plastic materials under actual fire conditions. Almost any material will burn under the "right" conditions. The test procedures of F.A.R. 853.b and U.L. 94 are intended only as measurements of the performance of materials under specific controlled conditions. These tests generally mean the material will burn, but not support a flame. You can get a good idea about any material you intend to use by burning a scrap of it with a match. Materials used by aircraft manufacturer's years ago may not even meet present day "standards." Generally, if a person is responsible for returning a certified aircraft to service is a shop or mechanic, he should use materials that are FAA approved and follow approved procedures. If it is in the experimental category, you can use whatever you! wish. For certified aircraft, a letter is included here certifying as it's meeting F.A.R 25.853b(3). One may wish to place it in their aircraft logbook. Owners should be able to install soundproofing. Sound Proofing Ratings. We haven't provided charts and graphs here because these theoretical ratings are pretty much meaningless in the real world. Weight, How Far To Go There is a weight penalty, of course. The Super Soundproofing Mat weighs from 1 pound for the 1/8" to 7 pounds for the 1" material. (Per sq. ft). A roll of the popular 1/2" X 50 ft mat weighs 70 Lbs. 1/4" weighs 35 Lbs. Obviously, if you put it all in your plane, that's what the weight increase will be-less, of course whatever you pulled out Generally it takes about 3/4 of a roll of 1/2" mat to do an aircraft such as a Cessna 182. (40-50 Lbs). Such weights are not much of a consideration in a heavy twin, but can mean a lot in a lighter plane. Common sense counts here. If a few extra pounds of soundproofing, perhaps even combined with an attractive interior offends your pocketbook or sensibilities, perhaps a better investment would be made in noise-canceling headsets for everyone! In such a case, your wallet will be the one undergoing a dramatic weight reduction! And you thought material was expensive! In general, even a little material is better than none. Here usually, more is better, is the rule. MORE NOISE REDUCTION RECOMMENDATIONS The neatness and care that is taken to ensure a good, tight fit and thorough application of covering of the inside skin areas around the cabin will determine the effectiveness of your soundproofing job. There is just so much you can do as a lot of sound is still going to come in the windows. Flat sheets can be bought from a plastics wholesaler and cut to fit much cheaper than buying pre-cut windows. Those of you that are building experimentals, overhauling or rebuilding aircraft, should consider additional methods of sound reduction i.e. replacing plexiglass windows and windshields with the thickest possible material available (up to 3/8"). Our tests have shown that there is no advantage to using any thicker material. Plexiglas edges of this thicker plastic window material can be trimmed with a router to still fit in the original frame slots and is well worth the extra trouble. Also, a fiberglass firewall batting cover fitted on the engine side will also help quiet single engine aircraft. This can be fabricated by your upholstery shop out of heat resistant materials. Cutouts for wiring and other necessary openings through the firewall can be closed by velcro fastenings and many times is well worth the additional cost and effort. Loose fitting fairings causing gaps between the wing and fuselage in high wing aircraft can generate lots of wind noise. This must be stopped. An easy way to do this is by using a caulking gun filled with white weatherproof silicone caulk. (Use clear if your paint in that area is not white!) For best results, apply it wet while the fuselage/wing joining cover is off. Clean up with water. First tucking soundproofing mat firmly between the wing/root and the fuselage will really help. This is usually not a problem in low wing planes, but should be investigated. A noisy door because of a gap in its frame can mean the seal needs replacement or if the door cannot be made to fit properly, try some very careful bending!, perhaps even a inflatable door seal. There are dealers for inflatable door seal kits for many types of aircraft and such kits can be adapted to most others. A sound absorbing metal tape, made by 3M, will be useful for "buzzing" tin canning areas usually found in metal aircraft. It can be applied to inside the tailcone as that area tends to amplify sound. Very little needs to be applied to a spot as it is intended to just prevent the metal from "oil canning," thereby tinnily buzzing and vibrating. Even patches of "duct tape" can be used-cheaper, but not as good for the long term. (The cement dries out). The Hartzell "Q" tip propellers should be considered by those who wish a really quiet ship. The noise reduction is very impressive! In any event, we're here to help you with any questions. (760) 749-0239 Addendum to "Soundproofing the Light Aircraft" For Boats, RVs and Cars The principles and applications described in the foregoing for aircraft are completely applicable to other vehicles and even homes and offices. Absorption and blocking of noise are the principles of most importance. How this is accomplished is a measure of the effectiveness of the soundproofing job. In other than specialized applications such as aircraft, cost is of great importance. That is why an alternate less costly material to Super Soundproofing Mat, is made available here to the reader. First, we will discuss some specifics of sound proofing certain kinds of vehicles and the specialties of noise reduction in the business, shop, home or office. * Autos/Trucks In this application the two principle sound producing items are road noise and engine noise. These are dealt with somewhat differently. However, in most cases the method of absorption is used. The engine compartment usually has pretty good noise blocking capabilities, so lining the compartment inside and out (where practical) will do an excellent job. The hood is a particularly important place to start. Factory material is usually not anywhere near sufficient to do an acceptable soundproofing job. Road noise can be controlled by placing mat on the flooring, but good coverage is essential. Mat can be cut into squares and heated with a blower to help it conform to unusual shapes. Some pretty expensive mat is available from some auto paint wholesalers. Contact cement will hold it permanently in place. (Be sure its waterproof cement!). The walls and roof should receive the treatment, again, if practicable. Void (open) areas can be closed with expanding foam, sold in cans. This will cut down on an echoing effect. Be sure to do the trunk area too as it will tend to resonate like a drum into the passenger compartment from road noise. (Volvos are notorious for this.) "Cadillac" quality comes from lots of soundproofing material and attention to details of covering every square inch with material. Long distance truckers can really benefit from soundproofing their cabs and sleepers and heavy equipment operators will find fatigue greatly reduced as their noisy environmen! t is quieted! Again, a side benefit is the reduction of heat and cold. * Boats Most noise is generated by the engine and carefully covering the engine compartment with soundproofing mat will do a marvelous job of sound reduction. Soundproofing the engine room walls and ceiling are most important in larger boats (ships), and hanging mats often can often be very effective. More about that in the next section! * Other: Businesses, shop, home or office Businesses can really benefit by reducing noise pollution. Not only will workers, who spend long hours in the same place every day, but customers (maybe more importantly)! will really appreciate a quieter environment. Generally, annoying noise in these areas is caused by machines or people. In an office or business, hard reflective surfaces tend to severely accentuate noise. This is one reason why rugs make a room quieter. Here, soundproofing mat can be placed in strips of one or two feet high and run along the top of walls and even attached to ceilings for impressive noise reduction. These sound absorption runners do a very effective job, the more the better!! In noisy areas such as a shop, hanging barriers are made by attaching soundproofing mat to plywood squares (both sides)!. Suspending them between the offensive noise producing machine and the receiver of the noise works wonders. These may be either permanent or temporary. If temporary, they may be moved out of ! the way with some sort of wheels, hinge, cable or hook arrangement. Temporary ones on casters are useful or suppressing grinding machines or other loud noises that occur at different places around the shop. (Or, for band practice in the garage!) Hanging squares are also effective in high noise areas such as machinery rooms, pizza parlors, game rooms, halls, etc. They need not be long or large enough to be very noticeable. Hang them from the ceiling in rows (at least one foot tall), and notice how the quiet develops! "Liner" The material we normally sell as mill distributors (Super Soundproofing Mat), is relatively expensive because it is blessed by the US Govt. for aircraft use,. (Mostly because of the requirement for the blessing). We only sell this in rolls (or half roll), quantities. It works very well and there is no substitute! However, we sometimes have another material, somewhat similar, that, while irregular, is almost as good and quite inexpensive. It is heavier, is not approved for (in)flammability and only comes in sheets, approximately 60" long by 48" wide. It varies in thickness, but is usually averages about 3/8" thick. It can, of course, be laminated (glued) together for greater thickness. It is smooth on one side for gluing (or stapling), the rougher side being "out" for absorbing noise. It is called "Liner." It is very durable and while not recommended for outside use to last forever, could be very useful on your fence to cut down on the sound from a noisy neighbor! It will work fine in boats, cars, trucks, etc. It is now available directly from us for $20 a sheet, 6 sheets for $100 plus shipping. (Shipping runs about $25). Only when available. Contact us direct to order Aircraft, 1531 Avohill Drive Vista, CA 92084 Tel: (760) 749-0239 Fax: (760) 749-6384 (or) (760) 749-3432 BBS: (760) 749-2741 E-mail: bjnash(at)pdsig.n2.net To The Pilot, Mechanic or Installer!! Most of the materials mentioned are available from a variety of sources, your common Hardware store may have some of the items. The SUPER SOUNDPROOFING MAT is only available from us and: AIRCRAFT SPRUCE & SPECIALTY 225 Airport Circle 91720 P.O. Box 4000 91718 Corona, CA 1-800-824-1930 or (909) 372 9555 IN EUROPE, (England) (0) 462-441995 WAG-AERO 1216 North Road Lyons, WI . 53148 1-800-766-1216 or (414) 763-9586 * As mill distributors of this material, we don't sell direct in small quantities, only in half or full rolls, for other quantities, please order from the above, they stock most sizes. (The above does not sell the "Liner" material, which is not FAA approved, but we do). * Questions? Certs? We are happy to offer recommendations, advice, assistance and free samples, or a hard copy of this booklet. Just call or write us. * Aircraft Reman, 1531 Avohill, Vista, Ca, 92084 (760) 749 0239 FAX:749 6384 BBS 749-2741 * E-mail bill.nash(at)pdsig.n2.net Interested in aviation parts, tools, equipment? Send e-mail to our auto responder: infobot(at)pdsig.n2.net to receive a directory listing of what's currently available. AIRCRAFT REMAN. 1531 Avohill Dr. Vista, Ca. 92084 (760) 749-0239 FAX 749-6384 or 3432 CONFIDENTIAL PRICE LIST-SUPER SOUNDPROOFING MAT (Sept 1, 1997) We are mill distributors for this material and supply the aviation industry. These roll prices are subject to change without notice. Super Soundproofing (FAA Approved) is available as follows: SIZE Price Per Running Foot Half/Roll SHIPPING Roll 1/8" $3.25 $100 $15 $187.50 1/4" $6.00 $175 $20 $325 1/2" $8.00 $250 $30 $450 3/4" $11.00 $350 $35 $650 1" $12.00 $450 $40 $850 48" width, Black only.(Shipping is about $30 per half of a full roll of 1/2"). Minimum order from us is 1/2 roll. Smaller quantities are available from Aircraft Spruce (909) 372-9555 or Wag Aero, (414) 763-9586. Prices are subject to change without notice. "Hood Liner" Irregular, rough cut, smooth one side, approx. 1/4 to 3/8" in thickness, NOT FAA approved and is a denser material than Super Soundproofing. Useful for car restorations, speaker boxes, etc. Anywhere a cheap soundproofing material is needed. 48" X 64" (Approx.) Sheets: $20 Each or 6 sheets for $100 (Shipping is about $30 by UPS). To Order: Send check or M.O. to address above, sorry, no credit cards. C.O.D. orders, add $5. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 1997
From: Alan Brown <103612.2516(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Builders classes
<> I'm going with my wife this weekend. I'll let you know. After seeing the empenage video from them (even thoug= h it wasn't Avery) I thought those Texas folk should know what they're doin= g, so why not. Alan Brown RV-8 builder 2 B ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 24, 1997
Subject: Re: Octane Reduction - knock sensors
<< One clarification - I read, I believe in Sport Aviation, that going to unleaded gas will *allow* the use of knock sensors and the like, which don't work with leaded gas. >> Knock sensors use sound to detect knock. Lead has no effect on 'em. BUT!!! these niosy clanking air-cooled motors we use put out so much internal noise that this technology will need a bit of tweaking to work here. The O2 sensor is contaminated by lead- could be that's what you heard. It sure makes good sense to me. Check six! mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 1997
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Canopy Shade and Sound Insulation for RV-6A
>1. Canopy shade kit by Koger is available from Vans for $149. What has >been the field experience with this kit? Worth while...a must have? > Will; Walmart and probably others have a plastic shade, about 14x18 inches, looks as if it has small holes in it but doesn't. It fits on with electrostatic clinging, can be pulled off and relocated with no problems. Cost about $1.75 each (or did about 3 years ago). Two of these in the top of the canopy made a nice shade that you could still see through when you go over the top in a loop. Don't know how they would do in very hot sunny climate. I had them in Texas and no problem. The buyer in Nevada thinks they may have caused a slight sag in the top of the canopy there in Nev.! John Darby Stephenville TX johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Builders classes
Date: Sep 24, 1997
From: n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
> > >Has anyone attended the builders class put on by Avery? > >If so was it informative and worth the trip? I have no experience in >aluminum a/c construction so I thought this would be a good investment >prior to starting on my RV-8. I attended the Avery class in about March of this year. I had already been working on the tail kit a few weeks, and so had learned a little, but still found it very worthwhile. I had to drive about 500 miles to attend. The teachers for my class were George Orndorff and Martin Sutter. I was assigned to Martin. The first day was an introduction to the tools and the building of a "thing." The thing was a few pieces of aluminum of different types riveted together with rivets of different types and using different techniques. The second day we built the kit from Van's that is kind of like a section of control surface. My first day's work went right in the trash in the motel room. The second day's work is still on display in my living room. Definite progress. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM Pacer N8025D RV-6QME N441LP Reserved Electric Flap Mechanism ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 1997
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Exhaust gate temp gauge location?
>gauges and my question is: how far should they be from the >top of the exhaust pipe? I looked at my documentation but >there is no mention of this. >Cheryl Sanchez Cheryl; Mine said to put them 1 and 1/2 in below. Other people told me that being that close, they will burn out too soon. At 200 hours they are still OK. John Darby Stephenville TX johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 1997
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Engine ground locations
A >I'm looking at my engine trying to decide where to connect the ground wire >from my battery. . . . > For RV's with battery on other side of firewall from engine, consider running battery (-) lead to firewall ground stud that connnects ground busses on each side of firewall (like figure 5-3 in 'Connection). This eliminates the need to put another hole in firewall just to handle a ground connection. Use braided jumper to connect firewall side of stud to the crankcase. I'd like to hear what other builders think as to suitable fastener to use on the engine itself. BTW . . . we have materials in stock to custom fabricate braided ground jumpers to length. Specify length and size of holes on each end. I DONT think you want to use the mount bolts. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ShowCtrGuy(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 24, 1997
Subject: No Subject
suscribe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bentley(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 24, 1997
Subject: Re: Exhaust gate temp gauge location?
Quit sending me all of this rv shit immediately! How is that for un-subscribing???? You are a jerk!!!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 1997
From: Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)a.crl.com>
Subject: POH Outline
All: After looking through a couple of POH's, I've come up with the following as a possible outline or table of contents. After putting this list together, It appears that it is unlikely that one could create a 'generic', fill-in-the-blanks POH. There are just to many variables. For example: The diagram of the fuel system - Some will have a gascolator and some will not. And what about the location of fuel filters? I guess we have some alternatives at this point: 1. One of us could create a POH in Word and post it on John Hovan's web site. The rest of us to use it as a basis for their own POH. 2. Try to come up with an acceptable subset of the topics below that *can* be made into an generic RV-6/6A POH. (for example, you could have two pages with 3-views- one for the RV-6 and one for the RV-6A. You just tear out the page that does not apply.) 3. Give up (said mostly jokingly) Suggestions? Best Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB cowling ===================================================== RV-6 / RV-6A POH Table of Contents General Aircraft 3-view with major dimensions Ground Turning Clearance illustration Introduction Aircraft Type, Model Builder Name Descriptive Data Engine Manufacturer Model Displacement Horsepower at________ RPM Propeller Manufacturer Model If fixed pitch: Dialeter & Pitch Fuel Capacity Usable Octane Grade Color Oil Capacity Viscosity Minimum Oil Quantity Weights Empty Weight GRoss Weight Maximum useful load Aerobatic Gross Weight Maximum Aerobatic useful load Maximun weight in baggage compartment Loadings Wing Loading Power Loading Symbols, Abbreviations, Terminology Speeds Meterology (OAT, etc) Powerplant Performance W&B Limitations Airspeed Limitations Airspeed Indicator Markings Engine Operating Limitations Weight limitations CG Limits Approved Aerobatic Maneuvers Certification Limits (VFR/IFR Day/Night) G-Load limits Fuel Limits Oil Specifications Placards Required Equipment VFR Day VFR Night IFR Day IFR Night Remarks Emergency Procedures Airspeeds Emergency Checklists & Procedures Engine Failure Rough Engine Forced Landing Icing Bus Over-VOltage ALternator failure Landing - Flat Tire - Fire in Flight Propeller Overspeed Engine Instrument failure Runaway electric trim Canopy unlatched in flight Vacuum Systm failure Recovery from spiral dive Spin Recovery Icing Normal Procedures Airspeeds Checklists & Procedures Pre-flight Engine Start Hot STart Taxi Crosswind Taxi technique Before Takeoff Normal Takeoff Short Field Takeoff Soft Field Takeoff Initial Climb Cruise Climb Descent Before Landing Normal Landing SHort Field Landing SOft Field Landing Go-Around AFter Landing Shutdown Cold Weather Operation Hot weather operation Noise Abatement Performance Airspeed Calibration Chart (IAS-CAS) Temperature COnversion chart Stall Speeds by Weight, Flap Deflection, and angle of bank Altitude loss Crosswind Component chart Takeoff distance (Cessna-style chart) Rate of climb Speed and ROC by altitude Time, Fuel, and DIstance to CLimb chart Cruise Performance charts (Cessna Style) Short Field Landing DIstance CHart Weight & Balance Location of Datum Weighing Instructions Aircraft Empty Weight Aircraft Empty CG Procedure or charts for calculating loaded CG CG Limits / envelope Gross Weight Limits Sample Loading problems Equipment list Aircraft Systems Airframe Description Flight Controls Description Instrument Panel description Engine Description Propeller Description Fuel System Description (with diagram) Electrical System Description (with diagram) Brake System Description (with diagram) Vacuum System Description (with diagram) Heating & ventilation Flaps Handling, Service, Maintenance Required Aircraft documents Ground Handling Servicing Fuel Oil Battery Tires Brakes Vacuum System Induction Air Filter Cleaning Required Inspections Condition Inspection Checklist Blank chart for recurring ADs and SBs Safety Information Do's and Don'ts Rules and Regulations ADs Flight Planning Inspections General Flight Operations Engine Operation Turbulence Icing Mountain flying VFR into IFR Conditions VFR at Night Vertigo Stalls, Spins, SLow FLight Hyperventalation Hypoxia Alcohol Grugs Scuba Diving Carbon Monoxide Night Vision ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 1997
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: Re: Octane Reduction
> >Just my $0.02 on the subject... >Considering the special handling that leaded aviation fuel >requires (partly because it's "aviation fuel" and partly because it's >leaded fuel in an essentially unleaded fuel world, requiring its own >tanks, piping, trucks, etc.) --------------(SNIP)-------------------------- > One thing to keep in mind: any additive that you'd care to >name has to be shown to be safe for whatever is going to contain, convey, >or use the resulting mixture in whatever concentrations are likely to >occur; many of these compounds aggressively attack things like rubber >and/or plastic components, which obviously is not good for fuel system >components. In the certificated aircraft world, we have to test each and >every one of the types of fuels we intend to certificate the aircraft for >use with, including additives; it doesn't matter how similar the fuel or >additive is to what is already used...it must be tested to show no adverse >effects on any component of the aircraft fuel system or engine. That's a >big part of the research being done right now, as well.-------BIG SNIP------ Bill, Based on all of your message and especially the parts above, It would seem the easy thing to do for the refineries would be to keep on manufacturing the the 100LL since all the stuff is already in place and tested and based on your facts almost as much, if not more, trouble would be encountered in the manufacture of an acceptable substitute. And if "so little" of it is being used then I would think the effect on the environment would be minimal. Are we missing the forest for the trees here or am I looking at the wrong forrest? Al RV-6 Emp. and Wings still wainting for me to get to 'em ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B&S Eckstein" <eckstein@net-link.net>
Subject: Re: RE:Dynamat, other automotive materials
Date: Sep 24, 1997
Bill, Sound deadening materials can be heavy. Can you enlighten us on weight penalties vs soundproofing/thermal insulat= ions? Thanks, Brian Eckstein ---------- > > DynaMat and other similar types of materials is available from auto > body paint shops and is quite expensive. It comes in small squares > and has an adhesive on one side protected by a peel off plastic. Any > material such as this is somewhat effective for sound proofing, but > has some drawbacks. It is similar to our material we call "Hood > liner" we sell for $20 a sheet. 48"X 64" about 3/8" thick. > Any material can simply be tested for flammability by using a match, > it should not continue to burn when the flame is removed or it is not > suitable.... > > Our free booklet "How to Sound proof Aircraft": is available by auto > responder from soundprf(at)pdsig.n2.net or send you name and address to > me and I'll mail you a hard copy. > > > > Send email to infobot(at)pdsig.n2.net for a directory of other interesting= stuff! > > > ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Bill Nash > `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Aircraft Remanufacturing Corp > (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' 1531 Avohill Dr > _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Vista, Ca 92084 (760) 749 0239 > (((),-'' (((),' (((.-' Email: bjnash(at)pdsig.n2.net > http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/index.html > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 1997
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Octane Reduction
>And if "so little" of it is >being used then I would think the effect on the environment would be >minimal. Are we missing the forest for the trees here or am I looking at >the wrong forrest? . . . and given that the fleet of single engine airplanes is going DOWN to the tune of 5,000 airplanes a year (GA piston fleet peaked in 1988 at 197,000; 1996 down to 139,700) it seems like the "problem" is fixing itself by a pretty decent clip. Even if Cessna realizes its fondest wishes of 1,000 airplanes a year, the hemorrage will barely slow. The experimental fleet in 1996 was a mere 12,852 a mere 7.5% of the total. 1996 was the first AOPA fact sheet I have that carried numbers for experimental so I don't know how fast they're growing but I suspect it's a few years off before it breaks 1,000 new ships per year. Sooooo we're not many years away from having REDUCED total polution due to pistion aircraft by 50% without having to redesign anything . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 24, 1997
Subject: Re: EGT Probe location?
<< I am getting ready to install my exhaust gas temp. gauges and my question is: how far should they be from the top of the exhaust pipe? I looked at my documentation but there is no mention of this. >> Cheryl- The gauges should be placed on your instrument panel, do not place them in the engine compartment as they will be damaged by the heat (sorry, I couldn't resist). The Vision Microsystems installation data says to place the thermocouples which send info to the gauges, 3.5 to 4 inches down from the flange on a straight portion of the pipe. Most importantly, they should all be placed at the same distance from their respective exhaust valves in order to get uniform readings that you can compare across the board. Like Mr. Gesele said, get them uniform and not on the slip joint. Mine are just above the slip joint on the Vetterman C/O and angle aft for easy wire routing. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowen.com>
Subject: Builder's log
Date: Sep 24, 1997
Exactly what are the limitations associated with the "Experimental" certificate? Larry RV-8 builder wanne-be & OSH $30k free ride recipient larry(at)bowen.com [snip] My documentation consisted of a photo album with about 100 pix (he spent about 5 mins on that) and about 10 pages of written info that consisted of: date, time spent, and the assembly. A sample entry might be: 10/27 2.4 fuselage skinning. He spent about 10 mins on that, filled out the paperwork, read me the limitation word for word, congratulated me, then left. Almost a pleasant experience. Your mileage may vary, Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96 ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 1997
From: "Mark D Hiatt" <OttoPilot_MSN(at)classic.msn.com>
Subject: Exhaust gate temp gauge location?
What a charming 'tude, Bentley! I hope you build something plastic. Mark D Hiatt Visit us on MSN v2! OttoPilot_MSN@msn.com http://Forums.msn.com/Aviation Aviation Forum Manager, AvChat Mondays 10pm Eastern The Microsoft Network mic://Chat.msn.com/AvChat Quit sending me all of this rv shit immediately! How is that for un-subscribing? You are a jerk! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 1997
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Re: Engine ground locations
> For RV's with battery on other side of firewall from engine, consider > running battery (-) lead to firewall ground stud that connnects > ground busses on each side of firewall (like figure 5-3 in 'Connection). > This eliminates the need to put another hole in firewall just to handle > a ground connection. Use braided jumper to connect firewall side of > stud to the crankcase. I'd like to hear what other builders think > as to suitable fastener to use on the engine itself. BTW . . . we have > Bob . . . Bob, I did as you suggested. I bolted an angle on the inside of the firewall. To the top of the angle, I bolted the ground from the battery. I put a bolt through the leg of the angle that fit flush with the firewall went through the firewall and on the engine side made the connection for the ground strap. This way, I can disconnect the negative cable from the battery to the inside of the firewall without disturbing the connection through the firewall. To ground to the engine, I bolted the end of the ground strap to the top of the steel plate that is mounted on the carb bolts which holds my mixture and throttle cables. I covered the connection with "liquid tape" in the hope that this would keep rust & corrosion from degrading the electrical connection. So far, after 2 1/2 years, no problem in that regard. Bob Skinner RV6 bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 1997
From: lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott)
Subject: Re: 0-320 H2AD installation
Hi John, I would also be interested in the h2ad baffle info. Thanks. Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 1997
From: lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott)
Subject: inspection
Well, I finally got it signed off today by the DAR. He looked at the plane for about ten minutes to see if I had taken care of the discrepencies he had written down for me last week. Then we went to the house to type up some operating limitations. That took about 3 hours. He had called the night before to confirm he was coming. I asked about getting the certificate the same day and he said no, but maybe by this weekend. I said that wouldn't work, I wanted it today. We said a few words and he got mad and hungup. He showed up today and was very nice the entire time. It went very smoothly and he seemed genuinely concerned about my wellbeing when flying this thing. I got a 50 mile radius from the airport for the test area. I asked about landing at other airports and he said the FAA frowns on that during the test period, but if you need to stop to check the engine or something, that would have to be okay. It seemed to be a total turn-around from the last meeting. I got my insurance coverage started today, so after i finish putting the fairings on in the morning, i will cruise. Yes, finally, I will cruise. Cruise, Cruise, Cruise. I just hope I don't need the parachute I borrowed. Of course the friend that loaned it to me said if it didn't work he would make darn sure he got his money back from the packer. All heart, this friend. I'm going to take it slowly up to 5 or 6 thousand feet before I start seeeing what it will do. Can' wait. Hope I sleep more tonight than last night. Wouldn't you know it is 50 or 60 percent chance of rain tomorrow. I will let all know how it flies. See ya. Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 1997
From: Jack Gageby <aj752(at)lafn.org>
Subject: Re: N numbers Size
Vanremog(at)aol.com wrote: > > > I just want to be absolutely clear before I have my plane painted. If the RV > cruises below 200 mph (knots?) the N numbers can be small and still be able > to cross the borders, right? Been a year since I crossed the border...last time I checked....Small numbers OK for crossing border between USA and Canada, in either direction. Small numbers OK to go into Mexico. 12-Inch numbers when you come back into USA. I put numbers made from black self-stick shelf paper on plane at last Mexican airport before entering USA. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 25, 1997
Subject: Re: N numbers Size
<< I think the rule is if it's faster then 200mph, the N numbers must be over 12" high. Better safe then sorry. >> Seems I recall it's Knots, and it's also INDICATED airspeed at normal cruise. You gotta have 12" models to go to the Bahamas, I know. I used some temporary stick-on things for my trip there. Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash)
Subject: Re: RE:Dynamat, other automotive materials
Date: Sep 25, 1997
>> >>Bill, >>Sound deadening materials can be heavy. >>Can you enlighten us on weight penalties vs soundproofing/thermal = insulations? Soundproofing Mat does a great job, thermally as well as acoustically. There is a weight penalty, of course. The Super Soundproofing Mat weighs from 1 pound for the 1/8" to 7 pounds for the 1" material. (Per sq. ft). A roll of the popular 1/2" X 50 ft mat weighs 70 Lbs. 1/4" weighs 35 Lbs. Obviously, if you put it all in your (certified) plane, that's what the weight increase will be-less, of course whatever you pulled out Generally it takes about 3/4 of a roll of 1/2" mat to do an aircraft such as a Cessna 182. (40-50 Lbs). I would guess it would be substantially less for an RV. 1/2" would be most suitable and my guess is it would take about a third of a roll at a cost of about $150. This is to give you some rough comparison... Remember too, if you use some material that is NOT closed cell, it may pick up moisture, etc and increase weight and potential for corrosion. BTW someone made a request to our FTP server and it sent the entire soundproofing booklet file directly to the RV-List! I hope it really was the owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com and not someone trying to get us in trouble here! It's simply listed as FILE, (at about 12:00 today). It was not my intention to hog bandwidth here in the list by doing this..... We offered it selectively by auto responder to those who had interest. Send email to infobot(at)pdsig.n2.net for a directory of other interesting = stuff! ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Bill Nash `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Aircraft Remanufacturing Corp (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' 1531 Avohill Dr _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Vista, Ca 92084 (760) 749 0239 (((),-'' (((),' (((.-' Email: bjnash(at)pdsig.n2.net http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/index.html =20 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 1997
From: Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: N numbers Size
> > ><< I think the rule is if it's faster then 200mph, the N numbers must be over > 12" high. Better safe then sorry. >> > >Seems I recall it's Knots, and it's also INDICATED airspeed at normal cruise. >You gotta have 12" models to go to the Bahamas, I know. I used some temporary >stick-on things for my trip there. > >Check six! >Mark > Again .. doesn't anyone bother to read the FARs?? The section is even called SIZE OF MARKS in PART 45--IDENTIFICATION AND REGISTRATION MARKING. And - yet again, it's still online!! At -- http://www3.landings.com/cgi-bin/get_file?pass=5325848&FAR/part_45/section_4 5.29.html And, yes it's knots, but 180 kts ( _but_ is CALIBRATED Air Speed at MAXIMUM cruise speed) -- see below (b)(1)(iii). Paragraph (h) below allows temporary 12 inch numbers for border crossings. "Sec. 45.29 Size of marks. (a) Except as provided in paragraph (f) of this section, each operator of an aircraft shall display marks on the aircraft meeting the size requirements of this section. (b) Height. Except as provided in paragraph (h) of this part, the nationality and registration marks must be of equal height and on-- (1) Fixed-wing aircraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that: (i) An aircraft displaying marks at least 2 inches high before November 1, 1981 and an aircraft manufactured after November 2, 1981, but before January 1, 1983, may display those marks until the aircraft is repainted or the marks are repainted, restored, or changed; (ii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on a glider; (iii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on an aircraft for which an experimental certificate has been issued under Sec. 21.191(d) or 21.191(g) for operating as an exhibition aircraft or as an amateur-built aircraft when the maximum cruising speed of the aircraft does not exceed 180 knots CAS; and (iv) Marks may be displayed on an exhibition, antique, or other aircraft in accordance with Sec. 45.22. (2) Airships, spherical balloons, and nonspherical balloons, must be at least 3 inches high; and (3) Rotorcraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that rotorcraft displaying before April 18, 1983, marks required by Sec. 45.29(b)(3) in effect on April 17, 1983, and rotorcraft manufactured on or after April 18, 1983, but before December 31, 1983, may display those marks until the aircraft is repainted or the marks are repainted, restored, or changed. (c) Width. Characters must be two-thirds as wide as they are high, except the number "1", which must be one-sixth as wide as it is high, and the letters "M" and "W" which may be as wide as they are high. (d) Thickness. Characters must be formed by solid lines one-sixth as thick as the character is high. (e) Spacing. The space between each character may not be less than one- fourth of the character width. (f) If either one of the surfaces authorized for displaying required marks under Sec. 45.25 is large enough for display of marks meeting the size requirements of this section and the other is not, full-size marks shall be placed on the larger surface. If neither surface is large enough for full- size marks, marks as large as practicable shall be displayed on the larger of the two surfaces. If any surface authorized to be marked by Sec. 45.27 is not large enough for full-size marks, marks as large as practicable shall be placed on the largest of the authorized surfaces. (g) Uniformity. The marks required by this part for fixed-wing aircraft must have the same height, width, thickness, and spacing on both sides of the aircraft. (h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft penetrating an ADIZ or DEWIZ shall display on that aircraft temporary or permanent nationality and registration marks at least 12 inches high. " ... Gil (read the Regs!!) Alexander ------------------------------------------------------- mailto:gila(at)flash.net Gil Alexander, Los Angeles, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 1997
From: Mike Hartmann <hartmann(at)sound.net>
Subject: Re: N numbers Size
> >Asked another way, do I need to put 12" characters on the plane if I go >across the US borders at slower than 200 mph (knots?)? Gary, Yes and no. It isn't so much crossing the border as it is getting into the ADIZ. If your RV's maximum cruising speed is way faster than the average RV6/6A you may need 12 inch numbers. Regardless of speed, if you penetrate the ADIZ or DEWIZ, you need 12 inch numbers, but in this case, temporary numbers are authorized. See FAR 45.29: 45.29 Size of marks. (b) Height. Except as provided in paragraph (h) of this part, the nationality and registration marks must be of equal height and on - (1) Fixed wing aircraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that: (iii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on an aircraft for which an experimental certificate has been issued under =A7 21.191(d) or 21.191(g) for operating as an exhibition aircraft or as an amateur built aircraft when the maximum cruising speed of the aircraft does not exceed 180 knots CAS; and (c) Width. Characters must be two-thirds as wide as they are high, except the number "1", which must be one-sixth as wide as it is high, and the letters "M" and "W" which may be as wide as they are high. (d) Thickness. Characters must be formed by solid lines one-sixth as thick as the character is high. (e) Spacing. The space between each character may not be less than one-fourth of the character width. (g) Uniformity. The marks required by this part for fixed wing aircraft must have the same height, width, thickness, and spacing on both sides of the aircraft. (h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft penetrating an ADIZ or DEWIZ shall display on that aircraft temporary or permanent nationality and registration marks at least 12 inches high. - Mike hartmann(at)sound.net http://www.sound.net/~hartmann ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 1997
From: Mike Hartmann <hartmann(at)sound.net>
Subject: Re: "EXPERIMENTAL"
>"Sec. 45.22 Exhibition, antique, and other aircraft: Special rules. >aircraft or as an amateur-built aircraft and which has the same external >configuration as an aircraft built at least 30 years ago may be operated >Based on this it appears you could display your registration number as >"NX999RV" and not have to have the "EXPERIMENTAL" sign. Has anyone tried >this? What was your experience with FAA/DARs? Not yet, but you can if you want to wait another 20 years or so. - Mike hartmann(at)sound.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 1997
From: Boris <smbr(at)digital.net>
Subject: Re: N numbers Size
> Asked another way, do I need to put 12" characters on the plane if I go Last week I picked up instructions for flying to the Bahamas from here (Ft. Pierce, Florida) and it specified large letters. I do not remember seeing anyhting concerning 200 mph. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 1997
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Engine ground locations
Bob Skinner wrote: >I did as you suggested. I bolted an angle on the inside of the firewall. >To the top of the angle, I bolted the ground from the battery. I put a bolt >through the leg of the angle that fit flush with the firewall went through >the firewall and on the engine side made the connection for the ground >strap. This way, I can disconnect the negative cable from the battery to >the inside of the firewall without disturbing the connection through the >firewall. Normally, I'd LIKE to see a single, brass, 3/8 or larger bolt through firewall with nut on engine side. Bolt holds sandwitch of ground busses with firwall in the middle. First nut on firewall side is lock-tited to bolt threads, Second nut holds ground strap to engine so it can be removed for maintenance. > To ground to the engine, I bolted the end of the ground strap to >the top of the steel plate that is mounted on the carb bolts which holds my >mixture and throttle cables. What size fastener is this? > . . . I covered the connection with "liquid tape" in >the hope that this would keep rust & corrosion from degrading the electrical >connection. So far, after 2 1/2 years, no problem in that regard. > > In general, applied coverings are not necessary. When you clamp up the connections with threaded fasteners, the pressures involved prevent corrosion at the electrical interface in spite of any corrosion that occurs around the joint. In some cases, I've seen applied covers hide corrosion underneath . . . peel it away and found lots of green fuzz . . . Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 1997
From: Daniel Stevens <daniel.stevens(at)kconline.com>
Subject: Re: Exhaust gate temp gauge location?
aol.com!Bentley(at)matronics.com wrote: > > > Quit sending me all of this rv shit immediately! How is that for > un-subscribing???? > You are a jerk!!!!! A product of public education? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 1997
From: "Ray Murphy, Jr." <murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us>
Subject: Re: Exhaust gate temp gauge location?
Perhaps we could all forward Bently the rv-list postings on a private basis. Perhaps then he would learn to be alittle more polite. > >Quit sending me all of this rv shit immediately! How is that for >un-subscribing???? >You are a jerk!!!!! > > > > Ray and Nancy Murphy murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us RV6A empenage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 1997
From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil>
Subject: Re: Franklin Engine
What exactly does bare mean? I assume no mags, carb, alternator, starter, etc... By the time you have factored in the cost of the stuff thats missing, and the added cost/time of custom mounts and cowl, have you really gained anything? I could get excited about this if you told me the cost was $7000 rather than $12000. Mike Wills RV-4(wings) willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil It is certified, 205HP > nominal, has no prop speed limits, 1500 hrs TBO, and costs $12,000 > bare. > I don't know how much a O-360 weighs, and I know installing a Franklin > will involve a custom engine mount and probably cowl mods, but it > still sounds interesting. Heck, if you can put a Chevy in there which > is 60#lbs more than a Lyc. > > Chris Browne > Empennage real soon... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough)
Date: Sep 25, 1997
Subject: Re: Canopy Shade and Sound Insulation for RV-6A
I used two car shades from "Canadian Tire", a chain of hardware/carparts in Canada. I first tried the cling on ones. They were ok at first but then in the cold they would peel off. It was also difficult (if not impossible) to relocate them in flight. The next and current ones are a sort of gauze with a wirish kind of frame that stick on with two suckers. It is easy to reach up and pull one off, rotate it around the other and reattach it to block out the sun. They are about as effective as the clingy ones and a whole lot more convenient...plus they fold up into a nice little baggy if you want to put them away. Price was about $4 Can for two. Ken RV6A Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bumflyer(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 25, 1997
Subject: Re:Operating Limitations
In a message dated 9/25/97 2:43:32, you wrote: >Exactly what are the limitations associated with the "Experimental" certificate? I think this is an excellent question. Maybe if I had read all the FARs I would have known but I am a good reader and the answer was not obvious to me at all. My Limitations consist of a letter issued by the Inspector. I watched him prepare it at his computer terminal at the FSDO office. It was based on a form letter file, but I couldn't say whether it is an FAA sample or simply his personal file. The letter is two pages long and spells out the two phase set of limitations. The first phase is during the stipulated flight tests period and the second phase is after. The second phase requires no further action by the builder. Insofar as the geographic limitations are concerned I asked for a specific large area, assuming he would pare it down. Instead he simply copied my request and approved it as written. The letter is required to be carried in the airplane all the time forever. Therefore I do not have it at hand. I promise to copy it and put it on the line soon. Based on Lott's horror story he for one could have benefitted by having such a sample to show the person who inspected his airplane. Let me add a postscript. This subject has been a model of the way the RV list should work IMHO. We have had the gamut of listers who are curious and those willing to share their knowledge and experiences. I have learned a lot, even though I am beyond the inspection point. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 25, 1997
Subject: Re: Franklin Engine
<< Is anyone out there share my interest in a Franklin 6 cylinder in a -6/6A? I had a pleasant discussion with Pat Goodman at Atlas Motors (the importer), and apparently there has been interest, but no takers. >> A brand new one of these in a Stinson just blew up and dumped its oil all over the taxiway at Livermore. Bad form. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 1997
From: Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: Prop flanges was Franklin Engine
bge.com!CHRIS.BROWNE(at)matronics.com wrote: > Is anyone out there share my interest in a Franklin 6 cylinder in a > -6/6A? I had a pleasant discussion with Pat Goodman at Atlas Motors > (the importer), and apparently there has been interest, but no takers. > Chris, I spoke to the Franklin people at Sun N' Fun this past spring. I, like you, found it interesting. Obviously, a six cylinder engine should be smoother than a four cylinder. I'm a long way from worrying about an engine. How to pay for the wing kit is my next problem! I have been trying to learn more about the Franklin. Judy Saber, of Saber (formerly with Woofter Engineering) Engineering, spoke at my local EAA (Chapter 133 in Ft. Lauderdale,Fl.) chapter meeting 6 weeks ago. Judy manufactures prop extensions for aircraft. She explained that there are 3 styles of prop flanges. The most common are SAE #1 and SAE #2. I forget the exact bolt hole center dimensions,( I think SAE #1 is 4.375" and SAE #2 is 4.750") but I do remember that the SAE #2 is larger. When mounting a prop, like the Pontiac commercial says, " wider is better". The Franklin engine has a bolt center of 4.00". This is smaller than the SAE #1 or #2 styles. She is concerned that this makes any prop extension for this engine weaker than for a Lycoming or Continintal. She also said that it is difficult to get props for this motor . These are things to take into consideration. It would be nice to say "Just upsize the prop flange". That would necesitate Franklin recertifying the engine, which would send the price soaring (assuming that they have the capital to go through that). >they have been installed in Compairs and Velocities with only two failures (same guy >multiple times - installation problem maybe?) Did you find out how many engines have been installed? Charlie Kuss RV-8 empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ve7fp(at)jetstream.net (Ken Hoshowski)
Subject: crotch belts
Date: Sep 25, 1997
I find that that the seat belts in my RV6 tend to slide up a bit. I have bought the crotch belts from Vans and am looking at ways to install them. I understand that in the RV4 they hook them to the spar but this won't work. I am sure some of you have installed these. How and where did you put the attach brackets? Thanks Ken Hoshowski Editor Western Canada RVator C-FKEH First flight Sept 8/93 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Cafgef(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 25, 1997
Subject: Re: RE:Dynamat, other automotive materials
<< soundprf(at)pdsig.n2.net >> I could use a copy. thanks Gene Francis cafgef(at)aol.com or : Gene Francis 5360 Centennial Trail Boulder CO 80303-1264 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 1997
From: Alan Carroll <carroll(at)geology.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: Franklin Engine
> Is anyone out there share my interest in a Franklin 6 cylinder in a > -6/6A? I had a pleasant discussion with Pat Goodman at Atlas Motors > (the importer), and apparently there has been interest, but no takers. > There have been a couple of bits in the RVator about this recently, and as I understand it Van's was going to buy one to experiment with? I think the Lyc. IO-360 is about 20# lighter w/access. (and so will be your wallet!). I wasn't aware of the failures in other AC - I'm not sure that "only 2 failures" is such good advertising. Alan Carroll RV-8 #80177 (Wings) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 1997
From: John Ammeter <ammeterj(at)seanet.com>
Subject: Re: Engine ground locations
I ran the ground (negative) wire from the battery directly to a bolt that I installed just below where the oil filler tube connects to the engine; there was a hole in the case at that point. Don't know if that's the 'approved' location but it works fine for me. I then ran a wire from the engine back to the firewall to ground the airframe. My reasoning was to have the shortest path for the starter current. John > >I'm looking at my engine trying to decide where to connect the ground wire >from my battery. The first location I thought of was to connect it to one of >the 1/4" studs or bolts that attach the sump to the engine. Then I started >looking at those big 7/16" engine mount bolts. Couldn't the #2 AWG ground >wire from the battery be bolted under the head of one of these bolts? After >it's re-installed and properly torqued to 450-500 in. lbs., wouldn't this >make a suitable ground? Assuming that all of the paint is removed from under >the nut and washer on the engine crankcase. > I've looked through my copy of the Aerolectric Connection, AC 43-13, >Powerplant and Airframe handbooks. Where do most other builders connect their >ground wires? > >Mark LaBoyteaux >RV-6a N106RV >Mlaboyteau(at)aol.com > > > John Ammeter ammeterj(at)seanet.com RV-6 N16JA First flight August 1990 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com>
Subject: Re: retractable gear
Date: Sep 25, 1997
---------- > From: Donald DiPaula <access.digex.net!dipaula(at)matronics.com> > To: RV aircraft list > Subject: RV-List: retractable gear > > gear. can anyone tell me about this? obviously not offered by van's, but This RV-4 retractable was built by Brian Carr, DC-10 pilot for Canadian Airlines. He has built about 5 RVs and is quite a craftsman. I believe the engineering was done by some Boeing people. This a/c has lots of neat features including tail wheel retract. It is a very quick a/c and also has sliding canopy. Was for sale at $75,000 U.S. not sure if it still is. His phone is 604-856-8247 if you want to ask him about the building, etc. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: Franklin Engine
Date: Sep 25, 1997
charset="iso-8859-1" I'd be interested, but would like the engineering to be done by others before I attempt the installation. Steve Soule Huntington, Vermont -----Original Message----- From: bge.com!CHRIS.BROWNE(at)matronics.com [SMTP:bge.com!CHRIS.BROWNE(at)matronics.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 1997 7:40 AM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Franklin Engine Is anyone out there share my interest in a Franklin 6 cylinder in a -6/6A? I had a pleasant discussion with Pat Goodman at Atlas Motors (the importer), and apparently there has been interest, but no takers. Pat says the Franklin is a very simple motor which is only 3/4" longer than a Lyc and 351.2 pounds with accessories. It is certified, 205HP nominal, has no prop speed limits, 1500 hrs TBO, and costs $12,000 bare. Baffling is apparently simple, and they have been installed in Compairs and Velocities with only two failures (same guy multiple times - installation problem maybe?) I don't know how much a O-360 weighs, and I know installing a Franklin will involve a custom engine mount and probably cowl mods, but it still sounds interesting. Heck, if you can put a Chevy in there which is 60#lbs more than a Lyc. Chris Browne Empennage real soon... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash)
Subject: Re: RE:Dynamat, other automotive materials
Date: Sep 25, 1997
>> >> >><< soundprf(at)pdsig.n2.net >> >>I could use a copy. thanks There's a copy posted to the mail list as FILE a few days ago or send email to the above auto responder, or I'll mail one.... bill Send email to infobot(at)pdsig.n2.net for a directory of other interesting = stuff! ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Bill Nash `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Aircraft Remanufacturing Corp (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' 1531 Avohill Dr _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Vista, Ca 92084 (760) 749 0239 (((),-'' (((),' (((.-' Email: bjnash(at)pdsig.n2.net http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/index.html =20 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 1997
From: Glenn & Judi <glenn(at)chocolatetruffles.com>
Subject: Imron RV-6 Interior
Hi, Before I paint the inside of my RV-6 project, I had a few questions... 1) How much Imron will this require (base + catilyst)? 2) 90% of the inside is Sherwin Williams Wash primer, the other 10% is Marhyde. Will the Imron adhere the same to both of these primers? 3) What grit sandpaper should the surface be roughened with? Wet or dry? Thanks in advance, -Glenn Gordon -- MZ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 1997
From: Hamilton McClymont <hammcc(at)istar.ca>
Subject: Re: Western Canada RVator
Ken: I haven't seen the trial issue yet. Is it on its way? Hammy 26-3111 Springfield Drive Richmond, BC V7E 1Y9 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 1997
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: Franklin Engine
Chris Browne wrote: > Is anyone out there share my interest in a Franklin 6 cylinder in a > -6/6A? I had a pleasant discussion with Pat Goodman at Atlas Motors > (the importer), and apparently there has been interest, but no takers. > The price is right and a six would certainly be a step in the right direction. I know that Greg Travis believes that the most efficient engines have large bores and hence less friction but the whole world of piston engines is going for more cylinders of smaller bore. A six would crack the fuselage more slowly and thereby soon pay for itself. A six with a three blade prop which I understand is optimal for low vibration in a six, can run faster too due to the shorter radius. Running faster means more horsepower can come from the same weight. But there is one hitch and that is low market penetration, installed base etc. The reason that this is a problem is that they have no statistically relevant reliablility history. Chevy V-6 engines in RV's have the same problem but at least the engines have a *VERY* good history in autos, trucks, boats etc. And if the weight is a bother, use the aluminum block and heads for a 90+ pound reduction. Of course, these have a less significant history too. As I see it, among the aircraft engines the Lycoming fours are the *ONLY* viable choice. Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Auto engines on MWF, Lycomings on TTS halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 1997
From: scott <acepilot(at)mwt.net>
Subject: Re: Octane reduction
aol.com!Cafgef(at)matronics.com wrote: > > ...edited here > But on the subject of lead; how much of the lead from the lead-acid batteries > that will power all those new electric cars in California will end up > invading our environment? There must be 20 or 30 batteries in one of those > new so-called cars. Actually, I predict that electric cars will be powered by self-contained cold fusion reactors within 15-20 years, maybe sooner. Even if by storage batteries, they will be some "exotic" type like NiCd or NiMH...no lead, but another problem (Cadmium)...it's always something!! Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 1997
From: Ross Johnson <mobi(at)slkc.uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Prop flanges was Franklin Engine
Charlie Kuss wrote: > > > bge.com!CHRIS.BROWNE(at)matronics.com wrote: > > > Is anyone out there share my interest in a Franklin 6 cylinder in a > > -6/6A? I had a pleasant discussion with Pat Goodman at Atlas Motors > > (the importer), and apparently there has been interest, but no takers. > > > Chris, > I spoke to the Franklin people at Sun N' Fun this past spring. I, like > you, found it interesting. Obviously, a six cylinder engine should be > smoother than a four cylinder. I'm a long way from worrying about an > engine. How to pay for the wing kit is my next problem! I have been > trying to learn more about the Franklin. > Judy Saber, of Saber (formerly with Woofter Engineering) Engineering, > spoke at my local EAA (Chapter 133 in Ft. Lauderdale,Fl.) chapter > meeting 6 weeks ago. Judy manufactures prop extensions for aircraft. She > explained that there are 3 styles of prop flanges. The most common are > SAE #1 and SAE #2. I forget the exact bolt hole center dimensions,( I > think SAE #1 is 4.375" and SAE #2 is 4.750") but I do remember that the > SAE #2 is larger. When mounting a prop, like the Pontiac commercial > says, " wider is better". The Franklin engine has a bolt center of > 4.00". > This is smaller than the SAE #1 or #2 styles. She is concerned that this > makes any prop extension for this engine weaker than for a Lycoming or > Continintal. > She also said that it is difficult to get props for this motor . These > are things to take into consideration. It would be nice to say "Just > upsize the prop flange". That would necesitate Franklin recertifying the > engine, which would send the price soaring (assuming that they have the > capital to go through that). > > >they have been installed in Compairs and Velocities with only two failures (same guy >multiple times - installation problem maybe?) > > Did you find out how many engines have been installed? > > Charlie Kuss > RV-8 empennage > I heard yesterday that the Franklin in a Maule at the SLC airport is going great. THe owner is very happy with it. A freind tells me he has a lot of confidence in in and hear say tell me they are cheaper new than a lyc rebuild. I always prefer new. Had problems with two lyc rebiulds. Bought a new lycoming which was much better. If the Franklin was new each TBO cost is less and confidence is higher. Took delivery of my empenage today. Any ideas for tools? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 1997
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: N numbers Size
> Asked another way, do I need to put 12" characters on the plane if I go > across the US borders at slower than 200 mph (knots?)? FAR Sec. 45.29 Size of marks. (1) Fixed-wing aircraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that: ... (iii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on an aircraft for which an experimental certificate has been issued under Sec. 21.191(d) or 21.191(g) for operating as an exhibition aircraft or as an amateur-built aircraft when the maximum cruising speed of the aircraft does not exceed 180 knots CAS; ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (that's about 206 mph) ... (h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft penetrating an ADIZ or DEWIZ shall display on that aircraft temporary or permanent nationality and registration marks at least 12 inches high. The US Contiguous ADIZ runs along the US/Mexico border, and up the Eastern Seaboard, so that would apply when flying to Mexico or the Bahamas, etc. I have also read elsewhere that if you cross any Southern borders you are required to put on 12" numbers, but not Northern borders (i.e. Canada). As an aside, FAR 45.29 also lays out the max/min width, spacing, etc. of your N numbers. It's probably a good idea to take a look at the FAR before you put your numners on so you don't get a rude surprise when your inspector comes out. Randall Henderson, RV-6 randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 1997
From: Dennis Jackson <denny@tms-usa.com>
Subject: Re: How to Unsubscribe from the list
Well I can see why people are asking how to unsubscribe when the instructions are so plain. I just got back from a few days vacation and had several hundred messages waiting for me even though I had made a request to unsubscribe before I left. Here's what I got back from Matronics: Subject: Majordomo: Request Results: (no subject) Date: From: majordomo(at)matronics.com To: denny@tms-usa.com -- >>>> unsubscribe **** unsubscribe: 'denny@tms-usa.com' is not a member of list 'rv-list'. Anyone care to try to explain to this bonehead how I can be "not a member of list" and still get all the e-mail? I'm stumped. DJ Al Mojzisik wrote: > > > Send your E-Mail to: > > rv-list-request(at)matronics.com > > Do NOT send it to: rv-list@matronics > > If you just hit the reply button you will be sending it to the WRONG address! > > After you have addressed it correctly to rv-list-request(at)matronics.com > then skip the subject line.....thats the line that says "Subject" and go > directly to the body area of the message which is the big empty white space > under the header area and type only the word: > > unsubscribe > > in the body area. NOT "unscribe" or "[un]subscribe" but only the word: > > unsubscribe > > Now hit the "SEND" button before you goof it up. > > This is no flame only trying to be perfectly CLEAR ! Good luck with reading > your plans............ AL > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 25, 1997
Subject: Re: N numbers Size
<< Again .. doesn't anyone bother to read the FARs?? The section is even called SIZE OF MARKS in PART 45--IDENTIFICATION AND REGISTRATION MARKING. And - yet again, it's still online!! >> Gil- Reading the FARs isn't my problem. Interpreting them is. I've this section numerous times and I still don't understand what it's telling me, so I thought I'd ask. My question remains: Does my RV-6A with O-360-A1A and c/s prop, need 12" Registration characters if I cross (both ways) the US borders? A simple yes or no, please. It sounds like we are right on the hairy edge of the reg so erring on the side of caution might be advised, but I think that the 12" numbers look dorky on such a small plane. Hence my question. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Cptjm8kcab(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 25, 1997
Subject: rv conversation
thinking about building an rv 8. looking for information and advice any help is appreciated. thanks joe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bentley(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 25, 1997
Subject: Re: FILE
Take me off from this list.....don't send any more crap to my address......if you send any more....i am going to turn you in!!!! What are you some kind of an ass hole????? You are harassing me shit head!!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 1997
From: Mike Weller <myaccount(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: EGT and Bently rant
> >Perhaps we could all forward Bently the rv-list postings on a private basis. >Perhaps then he would learn to be alittle more polite. > > >Ray and Nancy Murphy >murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us >RV6A empenage > Hello group, Please don't do that. Something provoked the guy. I would like to know what it was. My first question is whether or not he subscribed to the list. It seems rather unlikely that one could do that by accident. Second - He walked away from his terminal, and somebody subscribed him as a joke. This is also very unlikely. It would be to a list like we get all of the scuzzy spam from. Or even more likely, it would be like an incident that I remember years ago, where some poor college student left his terminal unattended and someone else (no, not me) posted a message with the student's of the closet", followed by some sophomoric description of the situation. Third - This one scares me. That spam-bot (You know the one in particular that has hit this list,I can't think of their name, help me out here) that sends us stuff with the assurance that if you reply with REMOVE you won't receive any more great deals, is causing this. This is by far the most likely cause. Any other ideas? Please reply via private E-mail to the address below. Sorry if this isn't directly RV related, but I would hate to see this invaluable resource corrupted. I am genuinely interested in EGT probe locations. Mike Weller RV-8 (under construction) midibu(at)hsv.mindspring.com (preferred) or mike.weller(at)msfc.nasa.gov ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Lundquist" <DLUNDQUIST(at)postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: AOPA Pilot Magazine
Date: Sep 25, 1997
FYI the latest AOPA Pilot Magazine has a rather nice write-up on the RV-8. Some really nice pics of one of the factory ships. Overall they gave it a very good review. Dave Lundquist dlundquist(at)worldnet.att.net RV-6 empennage just getting underway... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 1997
From: "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Builder's log
>>Did you mean to say Advisory Circular AC 20-23? I see that the title of AC 20-27 is "Airworthiness Standards: Normal Category Rotorcraft" Is 27D related to SE Airplane?<< Sorry it took so long to respond, I've been out of towm. AC 20-27D dated 6/22/90 is Titled Certification and Operation of Amateur-Built Aircraft. My Advisory Circular checklist (00-2.10) dated 15 Aug 96 does not list AC20-23 or 20-27. The suffix to the AC number is the revision number for= the circular. In this case "D" indictes it is the fourth revision to AC2027 Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 1997
From: wmills(at)southwind.net (William H. Mills)
Subject: Re: POH Outline
> >All: > >After looking through a couple of POH's, I've come up with the following as >a possible outline or table of contents. > Dave, Actually, that outline looks really good for ANY aircraft, not just the RV-6/6A. Looks an awful lot like the manuals Beech has been putting out (which isn't surprising, since as I recall you've owned a Bonanza, and we've been using the GAMA format for years now). In Word or some similar word processor, it shouldn't be too hard to customize, put in the appropriate diagrams, illustrations, etc., provided one has them available in electronic form (the 3-views, at least, would be real easy, just download from Van's web page). The Performance section may be the most challenging to develop, as that one would almost have to be airplane-specific (I suspect there's enough variation between individual RVs to make it pretty difficult to come up with a reasonable specific-RV-Model performance section that was sufficiently conservative to provide adequite margins without being excessively so, especially for the better-built examples). Seems to me we've enough talent here on the List that we could probably assemble a very good set of manuals for the RV community (AFM/POH, Maintenance, etc.), if we take a collaborative approach, as you suggest. Your outline gives a good place to start. Bill Mills Wichita ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 1997
From: wmills(at)southwind.net (William H. Mills)
Subject: Re: Octane Reduction
> >> >>Just my $0.02 on the subject... >>Considering the special handling that leaded aviation fuel >>requires (partly because it's "aviation fuel" and partly because it's >>leaded fuel in an essentially unleaded fuel world, requiring its own >>tanks, piping, trucks, etc.) --------------(SNIP)-------------------------- > >Bill, > >Based on all of your message and especially the parts above, It would seem >the easy thing to do for the refineries would be to keep on manufacturing >the the 100LL since all the stuff is already in place and tested and based >on your facts almost as much, if not more, trouble would be encountered in >the manufacture of an acceptable substitute. And if "so little" of it is >being used then I would think the effect on the environment would be >minimal. Are we missing the forest for the trees here or am I looking at >the wrong forrest? > >Al RV-6 Emp. and Wings still wainting for me to get to 'em > Good questions, Al...the answers I have are at least partly time-related, and a very large part eco-political. Yes, the infrastructure to produce and distribute avgas is already there...but as I understand it, it's made in batches, not continuously. I'm not an expert on refinery operations, this is just a little I've picked up along the way; but I understand that there are some complications (in the aggravation category more than anything else as I understand it) in starting up the avgas production and then returning to "normal" production...maybe somebody on the List with experience can address it and we'll all be that much better informed. You also should remember, the equipment does deteriorate with age, and isn't particularly cheap; maintenance costs could be the thing that puts it over the line if the quantities aren't enough to support it. As for the quantities and the effect on the environment...I fully agree, and the actual measurements and research done to date supports the contention, it's not enough to really worry about. Unfortunately, that's not the Politically Correct answer. There are several agreements going into effect (if they haven't already) or being talked about, one of them being a joint US-Canadian agreement for the Great Lakes region as I recall, that specifically bans any leaded fuel around the Great Lakes (not sure if that's a done deal, or when it goes into effect if it is). They're starting to go after small gasoline engines now (lawnmowers, weedeaters, etc.) as major polluters, so I doubt we'd get much protection from the "small quantities". Regarding the whole disappearance of 100LL or other avgas, this is one case where I sincerely hope I'm very wrong!! By the way, the old "blue" gas was 91/93, so the 93UL should work just fine in a number of engines that were designed for it (e.g., some O-360 variants, some TCM IO-520s). Bill Mills ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 1997
From: Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: N numbers Size
GV, Actually, it's quite clear. YES on 12 inches per para (h) of my last posting for border crossing. "(h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft penetrating an ADIZ or DEWIZ shall display on that aircraft temporary or permanent nationality and registration marks at least 12 inches high." _BUT_ it uses the word "temporary" ... so if you can legally use 3 inch letters (keep your maximum RV6 cruise under 207 mph), then stick-on temporary registration numbers 12 inches high are OK. Lot of Californians do this with strips of 2 inch wide white or black electrical tape. It might look very 'dorky', but it's only needed in the ADIZ or DEWIZ zones and it's easy to apply and remove. The regs. just need reading carefully. Gil (cruise under 207 mph with 3 inch numbers) Alexander > > ><< Again .. doesn't anyone bother to read the FARs?? > > The section is even called SIZE OF MARKS in PART 45--IDENTIFICATION AND > REGISTRATION MARKING. > > And - yet again, it's still online!! >> > >Gil- > >Reading the FARs isn't my problem. Interpreting them is. I've this section >numerous times and I still don't understand what it's telling me, so I >thought I'd ask. > >My question remains: Does my RV-6A with O-360-A1A and c/s prop, need 12" >Registration characters if I cross (both ways) the US borders? A simple yes >or no, please. > >It sounds like we are right on the hairy edge of the reg so erring on the >side of caution might be advised, but I think that the 12" numbers look dorky >on such a small plane. Hence my question. > >-GV ------------------------------------------------------- mailto:gila(at)flash.net Gil Alexander, Los Angeles, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 1997
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: N numbers Size
aol.com!Vanremog(at)matronics.com wrote: > > > > << Again .. doesn't anyone bother to read the FARs?? > > The section is even called SIZE OF MARKS in PART 45--IDENTIFICATION AND > REGISTRATION MARKING. > > And - yet again, it's still online!! >> > > Gil- > > Reading the FARs isn't my problem. Interpreting them is. I've this section > numerous times and I still don't understand what it's telling me, so I > thought I'd ask. > > My question remains: Does my RV-6A with O-360-A1A and c/s prop, need 12" > Registration characters if I cross (both ways) the US borders? A simple yes > or no, please. > > It sounds like we are right on the hairy edge of the reg so erring on the > side of caution might be advised, but I think that the 12" numbers look dorky > on such a small plane. Hence my question. > > -GV > GV The short answer is you can cross into Canada with small numbers but into Mexico you need large numbers. Anytime you cross a ADIZ you need large numbers. -- Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 1997
From: Shaun <ee(at)europa.com>
Subject: RE: Octane Reduction
Was cruising the Web for RV stuff and found a page for the Vanguard Squadron (six RV-3As with IO-320s running ethanol). Interesting stuff on how they modified their RVs to run ethanol (pure is 112.5 octane according to their page). They feel they have a lower-cost fuel source (currently pay on average 1.21/gal for 200 proof). In 10:1 compression IO-320s they are seeing 10% more fuel burn with 20% more horsepower. At the time the page was written the Vanguard Squadron planes had over 1300 flight hours and over two and a half years of ethanol use behind them (later it said the planes have been in the air with ethanol since 1993). They feel etanol burns cleaner/has lower operationg temperatures and may be better on the Lycoming engine than 100LL (but I would like more proof of ethanol being safe in a Lycoming before I'd want to run it in my life-support-system). A potential problem is getting the stuff on a cross-country. These guys talk about running 100LL (pure and mixed) in the same planes as needed. If interested, check out the Vanguard Squadron info at: http://www.dakota.net/~schnaidt/wilts.html - Shaun Maki ee (at)europa.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 1997
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: Matt ? How To Unsubscribe
>Well I can see why people are asking how to unsubscribe when the >instructions are so plain. I just got back from a few days vacation and >had several hundred messages waiting for me even though I had made a >request to unsubscribe before I left. Here's what I got back from >>>> unsubscribe >**** unsubscribe: 'denny@tms-usa.com' is not a member of list 'rv-list'. >Anyone care to try to explain to this bonehead how I can be "not a >member of list" and still get all the e-mail? I'm stumped. >DJ Denny, In the Air Force we used the term PFM for describing what the little classified black boxes did. And I think PFM is a good description here! (Pure F'n Magic) Maybe Matt can sort this one out. How bout it Matt???? Al ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 1997
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: Re: N numbers Size
>It sounds like we are right on the hairy edge of the reg so erring on the >side of caution might be advised, but I think that the 12" numbers look dorky >on such a small plane. Hence my question. > >-GV GV, It looks like you're going to have a "dorky" looking airplane if you are going to cross the southern (Mexican) or eastern US borders both ways. Al ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov>
Subject: MSP AREA
Date: Sep 26, 1997
I would like to get in touch with RV-listers in the Minneapolis/ St. Paul area to get some local area information. Please reply off list or Email your phone number and I'll call. Thanks. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 1997
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: Octane Reduction
>Good questions, Al...the answers I have are at least partly time-related, >and a very large part eco-political. >Yes, the infrastructure to produce and distribute avgas is already >there...but as I understand it, it's made in batches, not continuously. >I'm not an expert on refinery operations, this is just a little I've picked >up along the way; but I understand that there are some complications (in >the aggravation category more than anything else as I understand it) in >starting up the avgas production and then returning to "normal" >production...maybe somebody on the List with experience can address it >and we'll all be that much better informed. You also should remember, the >equipment does deteriorate with age, and isn't particularly cheap; >maintenance costs could be the thing that puts it over the line if the >quantities aren't enough to support it. >Regarding the whole disappearance of 100LL or other avgas, this is one >case where I sincerely hope I'm very wrong!! Bill, I'm not trying to give you a hard time or anything (Like your the one making this decision! Right?) But if the refineries do reformulate for a "new" avgas then it will be just that....An Avgas. Same demand, same "headaches" in the manufacturing process, etc... etc... I think I'm beginning to see what someone meant when they called the EPA enviro-nazi's. Just an obsevation! (Oh my gosh, I think I just saw a whole in the Ozone better bury my house and move into a TeePee!) Al ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Brian.Carrigan(at)Sciatl.COM
Date: Sep 26, 1997
Subject: Re: What is a lumchevfok
--Boundary (ID uWLFOP0hKhmPaQ+/6yB42Q) This maneuver can be described as follows: Put the aircraft into a 45 deg. climb. Roll 90 deg. to knife edge. (at this point, you will be holding full top rudder). Pop the stick into the upper corner. What happens is like an inverted snap roll, but because of the top rudder and the elevator used, the tail swings around, and the airplane tumbles. (rotational movement about all three axes). The pilot is also somewhat shaken. Kids, do not try this at home! - Brian J. Carrigan, RV-6 fuse ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: Re: RV-List: What is a lumchevfok Date: 9/25/97 10:28 PM << >What is a lumchevfok?? I can't even pronounce it, much less know what >it is. I assume it is some kind of airborne maneuver, but what? >> I have seen many completed at airshows and it defies explanation. However the best way to describe it is a roll about verticle axis. Take a model plane and hang it by a string at the CG and then rotate the plane about the string (CG) while walking forward (to give the AC forward motion). Of course you have to be standing still to watch this and truly appreciate what the airplane is doing. Bob Busick RBusick505.aol.com RV-6 --Boundary (ID uWLFOP0hKhmPaQ+/6yB42Q) id AAA10286; Fri Sep 26 00:11:18 1997 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 23:28:47 -0400 (EDT) From: aol.com!RBusick505(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: What is a lumchevfok --Boundary (ID uWLFOP0hKhmPaQ+/6yB42Q)-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CBrowne714(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 26, 1997
Subject: Re: Franklin Engine
What exactly does bare mean? I assume no mags, carb, alternator, starter, etc... I could get excited about this if you told me the cost was $7000 rather than $12000. Mike, $12000 does not include those items. The turkey motor is $16000. Keep in mind that a 180HP O-360 from VAN is $19300 without an alternator. This is a 205 HP and a six cyl. Its no free lunch, but... Chris Browne Empennage soon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 1997
From: Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: Octane Reduction
William H. Mills wrote: snipped > By the way, the old "blue" gas was 91/93, so the 93UL should work just fine > in a number of engines that were designed for it (e.g., some O-360 > variants, some TCM IO-520s). Bill, Do you know what variants of the O-360 used 91/93 octane (blue fuel)? Is the compression ratio on these engines the same as the 80/87 engines, or somewhat higher? Charlie Kuss RV-8 empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CBrowne714(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 26, 1997
Subject: Re: Franklin Engine
There have been a couple of bits in the RVator about this recently, and as I understand it Van's was going to buy one to experiment with? ... I wasn't aware of the failures in other AC - I'm not sure that "only 2 failures" is such good advertising. Alan, Pat Goodman tells me that he was going to take a motor to Oshkosh for Van but Van apparently changed his mind. Why? He didn't know... Failures are always distressing, but the root cause is the most important aspect. Lycs can and do quit for mechanical as well as other reasons - just browse the AD list sometime. The Franklin motor is certified 1500 HR TBO engine, which means that the design and QA have been demonstrated to meet ... gulp... government standards (I mean this tongue - in - cheek). Regards, Chris Browne Wannabe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 1997
From: chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net>
Subject: Marhyde source
I need a mail order location for quarts of marhyde grey primer, my current source will not ship small quantities. -- Chet Razer crazer(at)egyptian.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CBrowne714(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 26, 1997
Subject: Re: Prop flanges was Franklin Engine
<...any prop extension for this engine weaker than for a Lycoming or Continintal...> Potentially, but alot depends upon the material and design. I am an engineer and I wouldn't reject the possibility that an entirely satisfactory extension for this application is not possible with plenty of margin. There isn't a huge difference, apparently, from what you explained. <... She also said that it is difficult to get props for this motor ...> The engines are being installed in Aerocomps and Velocities. Have heard that those folks have a difficult time getting props...Hmmm...I'll ask Atlas. <...It would be nice to say "Just upsize the prop flange". That would necesitate Franklin recertifying the engine...> Does that matter on an experimental airplane? How about an adapter plate? I think the mount and cowling would be a bigger challenge. <... Did you find out how many engines have been installed?> I think he said several hundred, but I didn't write it down. BTW, I don't work to far from Atlas Motors. I'll pack up all these questions, go visit, and have a look see for myself. Chris Browne Empennage soon...(Heck, I've got the video!. Progress on all fronts) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 1997
From: "Martin W. Sailer Jr." <mwsailer(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator Skins
> > Checked my two year old parts list . Anyone know of a lower cost source for alclad? Keith; I paid $123.00 for a 4 by 12 ft. .020 alcad at Dillsburg Aeroplane Works . I was able to go pick it up. Years ago I purchased .020 from Airparts which came rolled up and I never could get it flat to use as I had planned. Try to get it shipped flat. Maybe the "List" has an idea of how to unroll. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Sep 26, 1997
Subject: Re: Matt ? How To Unsubscribe
>-------------- > >>Well I can see why people are asking how to unsubscribe when the >>instructions are so plain. I just got back from a few days vacation and >>had several hundred messages waiting for me even though I had made a >>request to unsubscribe before I left. Here's what I got back from >>>>> unsubscribe >>**** unsubscribe: 'denny@tms-usa.com' is not a member of list 'rv-list'. >>Anyone care to try to explain to this bonehead how I can be "not a >>member of list" and still get all the e-mail? I'm stumped. >>DJ > >Denny, >In the Air Force we used the term PFM for describing what the little >classified black boxes did. And I think PFM is a good description here! >(Pure F'n Magic) >Maybe Matt can sort this one out. How bout it Matt???? Al >-------------- Well, I searched the current rv-list address file as well as the unsubscribe rv-list file and couldn't find a single occurance of the string 'tms'. I did find an occurance of 'denny(at)transport.com' that is currently on the List. Usually when someone can't unsubscribe from the List it is because they arn't subscribed with the address they think they are... Hope this helps. Matt -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 1997
From: Donald DiPaula <dipaula(at)access.digex.net>
Subject: anyone near balt/wash?
is anyone on the list building an RV somewhere in the greater baltimore-washington metropolitan area? if so, would it be possible for me to come see your work in progress, perhaps even contribute some time and effort (and maybe some shop beverages) in exchange for some on-the-job training in aircraft homebuilding? contact me off-list if you're around here. i live in laurel. -D- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com
Date: Sep 26, 1997
Subject: Oil temp problems solved
I just wanted to follow up with everyone who gave ides on how to lower he oil temps in my 0-360 RV-6A I ended up doing 2 fairly simple things. First, although my engine baffeling was well sealed, the "plumbing" to the firewall mounted oil cooler was not. I have a 3" scat tube from the rear of the baffle which leads into a cone shaped adapter which bolts onto the fire wall mounted oil cooler. There was a gap at the fin area between the adapter and the cooler which would have had allowed air to escape though the sides rather than being pushed through the cooler. My first step was to completely and carefully seal that gap which would then increase the air flow through the cooler. The second step was to clean out the cooler. (it was a used one that came from an Arkansas swamp land junk yard along with my engine) I cleaned the inside by filling it with solvent and let it sit for a day; then filling it with acetone to clean out the solvent. Then I cleaned the outside with a pressure hose from the local car wash. End result - 200 degrees in cruise lowered to 180 degrees in cruise which now gives plenty of margin for venturing down into those hot 110 degree days that you see so often just one state away. Andy RV-6A N-5060 17.3 hrs TT Andy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 1997
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: N numbers Size
> It sounds like we are right on the hairy edge of the reg so erring on the > side of caution might be advised, but I think that the 12" numbers look dorky > on such a small plane. Hence my question. This is more of a paperwork issue than a matter of how fast the plane will actually go. Here's how I understand it: You, as the manufacturer, can set the max cruise speed to whatever you want in your paperwork. So I think you're safe as long as you put it at 180kts ot less in your POH and any other FAA paperwork there is that asks for that. Even if the plane might be able to cruise faster, it is, in the end, up to the manufacturer to determine the max safe cruise for your particular airframe/engine/ prop.etc. If you happen to go a little faster than that at one time or another, well, first of all that's a different issue, flying the plane past it's designed speed, and second, I don't think there are any airborne radar cops out there checking to make sure no one flies 1-2 mph over the max cruise they put on their paperwork. Remember that Van's numbers are RECOMMENDED numbers -- since you are building more than 51%, you are the one who decides which numbers to put on the paperwork. The same thing applies for max gross weight. I have heard of people upping their max gross weight from Van's _recommended_ gross weight, not because they want to carry more, but just to guard against getting busted if they get a ramp check and find themselves slightly over the line. Randall Henderson, RV-6 randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 1997
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: gear leg stiffeners
What's the best kind of wood to use for gear leg stiffeners? Randall Henderson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DkSJC(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 26, 1997
Subject: Re: What is a lumchevfok
It's Polish for "Headache". Seriously. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FMark40(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 26, 1997
Subject: lumchevfok
I have been told that lumchevfok (or however it is spelled) is Russian for "headache". And by the way, I am new to the list and am three weeks into an RV4. The HS has one skin ready to rivet and the other ready to drill. I am in the upstate NY area and am curious if there are any other RV builders in my area. Mark McGee ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 1997
From: "Steven Janicki" <SJANICKI(at)us.oracle.com>
Subject: Left hand throttle quadrant
Hello, I recently flew up to Santa Rosa (Northern CA.) and viewed an RV6 that had the throttle quadrant on the left hand side. I am interested in incorporating this option into my aircraft and hope to make the addition of a center quadrant as well. This is to allow my CFII to feel comfortable during Instrument and other training sessions. Can anyone share or point me in the direction of a set of plans and parts? Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The statements and opinions expressed here are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Oracle Corporation. When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return. -- Leonardo Da Vinci Steven B. Janicki Director of Client Services ORACLE Data Center Voice (415)506-2740 Fax (415)633-2933 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowen.com>
Subject: AOPA Pilot & RV-8
Date: Sep 26, 1997
Has anyone else seen the RV-8 artical in the October issue of AOPA pilot? Some great pictures! It author also brags that "The aircraft climbs at greater than 1,000 FPM." This ROC is -very- conservative, isn't it?! Larry RV-8 dreamer larry(at)bowen.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: QmaxLLC(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 27, 1997
Subject: Re: Franklin Engine
I would be interested if there were a larger price difference. But why go to all the work and worry if there's not a huge advantage? A Chevy conversion at least makes future parts requirements laughable and a firewall forward is available A Lycosaur at least fits and has a good re-sale value. A Mazda costs a bunch less.....I think. Bob Fritz tail done ________________________________________________________________________________
From: REEVES322(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 27, 1997
Subject: RV List
My RV mail has stopped. I look forward to it a lot. Have I been unsubcribed accidently? I'd appreciate you checking for me. Thanks. Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terray and Pam Wood" <woodfam(at)voicenet.com>
Subject: subscribe
Date: Sep 26, 1997
subsribe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 1997
From: scott <acepilot(at)mwt.net>
simpsond(at)win.bright.net
Subject: Aviation humor
Sorry...I couldn't resist this gem... Question: What's the difference between a good pilot and a bad pilot? Answer: A good pilot breaks ground and flies into the wind. :) Scott (N0EDV) -- Gotta Fly or Gonna Die ! --Ask me about my Aeronca Super Chief-- amended 8-29-97: Now after feeling the "Need for Speed", building an RV-4! No, the Super Chief is NOT for sale :) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Sep 27, 1997
Subject: Re: New RV-6 Cowl - no swaps
> >Van has stated that he will NOT be taking old cowls back. His intentions > >are to convert over entirely to the epoxy cowl as of now. > > Tim, > Did they quote a price if it was bought outright? Van's told me it is $800. For me, that's $100 per pound saved, and I'm not sure it's worth it. Anybody want my regular old fiberglass cowl for $300? ------------------------------------ Tim Lewis N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 San Antonio TX timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or timrv6a(at)iname.com ------------------------------------ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 1997
From: chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net>
Subject: Re: Wiring
I purchased Vans wiring kit and while it didn't have everything it was a good deal. I ended up buying a bunch of extra crimp terminals and will still have to buy some #14 wire. I'd do it over again since I dont keep any inventory of electrical stuff. -- Chet Razer crazer(at)egyptian.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CBrowne714(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 27, 1997
Subject: Franklin Engine
Charlie, <...any prop extension for this engine weaker than for a Lycoming or Continintal...> Potentially, but alot depends upon the material and design. I am an engineer and I wouldn't reject the possibility that an entirely satisfactory extension for this application is not possible with plenty of margin. There isn't a huge difference, apparently, from what you explained. <... She also said that it is difficult to get props for this motor ...> The engines are being installed in Aerocomps and Velocities. Have heard that those folks have a difficult time getting props...Hmmm...I'll ask Atlas. <...It would be nice to say "Just upsize the prop flange". That would necesitate Franklin recertifying the engine...> Does that matter on an experimental airplane? How about an adapter plate? I think the mount and cowling would be a bigger challenge. <... Did you find out how many engines have been installed?> I think he said several hundred, but I didn't write it down. BTW, I don't work to far from Atlas Motors. I'll pack up all these questions, go visit, and have a look see for myself. Chris Browne Empennage soon...(Heck, I've got the video!. Progress on all fronts) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CBrowne714(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 27, 1997
Subject: Franklin Engine
There have been a couple of bits in the RVator about this recently, and as I understand it Van's was going to buy one to experiment with? ... I wasn't aware of the failures in other AC - I'm not sure that "only 2 failures" is such good advertising. Alan, Pat Goodman tells me that he was going to take a motor to Oshkosh for Van but Van apparently changed his mind. Why? He didn't know... Failures are always distressing, but the root cause is the most important aspect. Lycs can and do quit for mechanical as well as other reasons - just browse the AD list sometime. The Franklin motor is certified 1500 HR TBO engine, which means that the design and QA have been demonstrated to meet ... gulp... government standards (I mean this tongue - in - cheek). Regards, Chris Browne Wannabe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CBrowne714(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 27, 1997
Subject: Franklin Engine
What exactly does bare mean? I assume no mags, carb, alternator, starter, etc... I could get excited about this if you told me the cost was $7000 rather than $12000. Mike, $12000 does not include those items. The turkey motor is $16000. Keep in mind that a 180HP O-360 from VAN is $19300 without an alternator. This is a 205 HP and a six cyl. Its no free lunch, but... Chris Browne Empennage soon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 1997
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Matt ? How To Unsubscribe
>Well, I searched the current rv-list address file as well as the unsubscribe >rv-list file and couldn't find a single occurance of the string 'tms'. >I did find an occurance of 'denny(at)transport.com' that is currently on the >List. Usually when someone can't unsubscribe from the List it is because >they arn't subscribed with the address they think they are... > >Hope this helps. Matt; I compliment you on your control of what is probably your true feeling. After words that showed the writer either could not or would not control his temper, I thought your response was a really nice put down to him. Congratulations on your self control. John Darby Stephenville TX johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Lundquist" <DLUNDQUIST(at)postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Subject: AOPA Pilot review of RV-8
Date: Sep 27, 1997
FYI, the latest AOPA Pilot magazine has a rather nice review of the RV-8. Some very good pictures of one of the factory protos with a yellow paint job. Overall they gave it very good marks. I think its the October Issue although I can't be certain as I already lent my copy to a fellow RV'er Dave Lundquist dlundquist(at)worldnet.att.net RV-6 Empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LesDrag(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 27, 1997
Subject: Torquing Prop Bolts
Torquing the prop bolts isn't just a torque pattern to a set of numbers. There is a feel to the torque at the final torque value. A metal prop should feel solid at the final torque value. That is, by torquing to the same value a second time, you should not expect the bolts to turn any additional amount. A wood prop, on the other hand, may have to be re-torqued two, three, or more, times before there is no additional movement of the bolts at the final torque value. The harder the wood, especially the front and rear laminates, the fewer repetitions required to "set" the torque. On a wood prop, I usually do a run-up (mag check) and a full power run- up, and then re-check the torque. If everything seems solid, I'll then follow the manufacturers recommendations for torque re-check. I've had one wood prop with a back laminate that was soft. The prop required re-torquing every two hours of flight. I had another wood prop that the bolts never seemed to move when I re- torquing at the manufacturers recommended times. On any prop, if the appropriate torquing procedures are not followed, you can suddenly loose the prop. I know of two cases where the vibration increase was all that was available to the pilot to let him know that the prop bolts were breaking. One RV-3 landed with only one prop bolt intact. The other five bolts were making a terrible racket against the inside of the spinner. These were wood props. For the prop I've been flying most recently, the same general approach mentioned above works well. One of Ivo's flight test pilots just attached his Ivoprop and went flying. He didn't follow the installation instructions. Fortunately, with the Stainless Steel tape across the blade segments, he knew right away that there was a problem with the installation. The feel for the Ivoprop installation starts out like a wood prop, and becomes like a metal prop. With the hardware installed properly, there is a sequence of torquing the prop bolts and running the engine on the ground to "set" the blades. The bolt torque should feel solid before the stainless steel tape is attached to the blades for the first flight. Jim Ayers LOM M332A engine Ivoprop Variable Pitch Prop Sportcraft Antennas RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder Less_Drag(at)juno.com Thousand Oaks, California USA http://member.aol.com/lesdrag/rv3.htm http://member.aol.com/lesdrag/Ivoprop.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 1997
From: johntate(at)essex1.com (John Tate)
Subject: Re: AOPA Pilot review of RV-8
David Lundquist wrote: > > > FYI, the latest AOPA Pilot magazine has a rather nice review of the RV-8. > > Dave Lundquist > dlundquist(at)worldnet.att.net > > RV-6 Empennage > Allso the Nov. issue of "Kitplanes" has a good article about the RV 8. John Tate RV 8 VS & Ruder ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Franklin Engine, Prop
From: less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS)
Date: Sep 28, 1997
Hi All, I've heard that the Velocity with the Franklin engine is running a Ivoprop variable pitch Magnum prop with the high pitch blades. Three blades, that is. If the Franklin engine is about the same length as the Lycoming engine, then the prop extensions should be about the same. 8" long. BTW, The high pitch blades are only available for pusher engines, or Europian engines, like the LOM. :-) Jim Ayers RV-3 Maroon Marauder LOM M332A engine Ivoprop Magnum High Pitch blades. Nanner, Nanner, Nanner ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 1997
From: TCOlson <tcolson@Cedar-Rapids.Net>
Subject: Rocky Mountain Fuel Pressure Readings
A Friend (Steve Chia) just finished and flew his RV6-a. He is getting fluctuations between 2 to 5 PSI on the fuel pressure indications. Is this normal for a Rocky Mountain engine monitor? The engine runs smooth at all times. Turning on the boost pump typically raises the reading by 1 psi. I didn't see any information on this subject in the archives. Can anyone provide some insight on this? Thanks Tom Olson (painting my RV6-A) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 1997
From: chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net>
Subject: Marhyde Primer
Will someone give me a phone # for a mail order location for Marhyde grey primer in quart cans. My local supplier will only ship in large quantities. -- Chet Razer crazer(at)egyptian.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 1997
From: beech <Beech(at)why.net>
Subject: RVator
Would like to buy someone's RVator issues from last year to present. please E-mail me. Building RV6 in Mesquite, Texas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 28, 1997
Subject: Re: Franklin Engine
<< The turkey motor is $16000. >> I assume this was a Freudian slip? -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Need more clecoes
Date: Sep 28, 1997
I need to buy more clecoes, particularly silver (wing skins). I figured I would see if anyone on The Net had any they wanted to part with before sending an order off to Avery. I'll probably get 200 or so -- can never have enough, it seems. -Joe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JDaniel343(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 28, 1997
Subject: Re: Marhyde Primer
Try going to one of your locale auto paint stores. I live in the Minneapolis area and the 3 auto paint-body stores I've been to handle Marhyde. Good luck ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net>
Subject: Don't Fly an Extra (unless you can afford one)
Date: Sep 28, 1997
I was in Springfield IL doing some B-25 Training and got to fly an Extra 300L. Unless you can afford one don't do it! What a machine. Before the flames all start flying, let me tell you the closest thing to it that is affordable is an RV. The Extra climbs at 3000 fpm the RV at 1500, The Extra rolls at 420 deg./sec, the RV at ~200, The Extra cruises at 180 kts the RV at 160, But, The RV burns 8 gph the Extra burns 16, The RV runs about $40,000, the Extra $320,000. While if I could afford one I would love to have the Extra. However, if I put $280,000 in the Stock Market and flew the RV instead I could have alot of fun doing other things with the rest of the money. I'll stick with my RV. Just remember , Don't fly one..... Tailwinds, N240 the pink panther Doug Rozendaal dougr(at)petroblend.com www.petroblend.com/dougr ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bumflyer(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 28, 1997
Subject: Re:Operating Limitations
In a message dated 9/25/97 2:43:32, you wrote: >Exactly what are the limitations associated with the "Experimental" certificate? I think this is an excellent question. Maybe if I had read all the FARs I would have known but I am a good reader and the answer was not obvious to me at all. My Limitations consist of a letter issued by the Inspector. I watched him prepare it at his computer terminal at the FSDO office. It was based on a form letter file, but I couldn't say whether it is an FAA sample or simply his personal file. The letter is two pages long and spells out the two phase set of limitations. The first phase is during the stipulated flight tests period and the second phase is after. The second phase goes into effect automatically after the builder finishes his flight test plan and time period . Insofar as the geographic limitations for phase one are concerned I asked for a specific large area, assuming he would pare it down. Instead he simply copied my request and approved it as written. The letter is required to be carried in the airplane all the time forever. Therefore I do not have it at hand. I promise to copy it and put it on the line soon. Based on Lott's horror story he for one could have benefitted by having such a sample to show the person who inspected his airplane. Let me add a postscript. This subject has been a model of the way the RV list should work IMHO. We have had the gamut of listers who are curious and those willing to share their knowledge and experiences. I have learned a lot, even though I am beyond the inspection point. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 1997
From: ROSS JOHNSON <mobi(at)slkc.uswest.net>
Subject: Re: AOPA Pilot & RV-8
Larry Bowen wrote: > > > Has anyone else seen the RV-8 artical in the October issue of AOPA pilot? > Some great pictures! It author also brags that "The aircraft climbs at > greater than 1,000 FPM." This ROC is -very- conservative, isn't it?! > > Larry > RV-8 dreamer > larry(at)bowen.com > I agreed that sounds like he is missing a zero. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Robbins Mitch <ROBBINM(at)chi.ntsb.gov>
Subject: MSP Area
Date: Sep 28, 1997
I would like to get in touch with RV listers in the Minneapolis St. Paul area to acquire some local information. Please reply off list or email your telephone number and I'll call. Thanks. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 28, 1997
Subject: Re: Marhyde Primer
Bob Avery has it Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC - NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LesDrag(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 28, 1997
Subject: Ivoprop Delivery Offer
Hi All, I have given considerable thought to the responses I receive on the RV list, when I mention the Ivoprop Magnum Variable Pitch prop. Initially, I felt that there was no need for me to convince anyone to try the Ivoprop Variable Pich prop. After all, I have one. And I know that the Ivoprop is what really lets my LOM engine perform like it has an extra 35 hp. Why should I have to go out of my way to let others know about the performance advantage I have with the Ivoprop over a fixed pitch prop. After all, I demonstrate this to myself each time I put my Warnke prop back on. Then I realized the difference between my successfully flying behind the Ivoprop, and the others that haven't. I know how to install the Ivoprop, and what to watch for. If your RV is presently flying, with a fixed pitch wood prop, and are based within 350 NM of Camarillo, Ca. (CMA); For a limited time, I am willing to personally deliver your Ivoprop Magnum Variable Pitch prop. And I will help you install the prop. (After all, everything we learned in building the RV DOESN'T apply to the prop installation; i.e., no primer, alodine, anodize, etc.) So, if anyone wants to see if they can reduce their take-off roll by 50%, and increase their climb rate by 50%, try an Ivoprop. Please contact me directly. If you are interested my delivering an Ivoprop. Or if you just want to flame me for using the RV list for advertisement. Don't waste the RV list space doing it. Jim Ayers LesDrag(at)aol.com LOM M332A engine Ivoprop VP Prop Sportcraft Antennas RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder Thousand Oaks, California USA http://member.aol.com/lesdrag/Ivoprop.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 1997
From: TCOlson <tcolson@Cedar-Rapids.Net>
Subject: Rocky Mountain Fuel Pressure Readings
A Friend (Steve Chia) just finished and flew his RV6-a. He is getting fluctuations between 2 to 5 PSI on the fuel pressure indications. Is this normal for a Rocky Mountain engine monitor? The engine runs smooth at all times. Turning on the boost pump typically raises the reading by 1 psi. I didn't see any information on this subject in the archives. Can anyone provide some insight on this? Thanks Tom Olson (painting my RV6-A) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash)
Subject: Re: New RV-6 Cowl - no swaps
Date: Sep 29, 1997
>> >> >>> >Van has stated that he will NOT be taking old cowls back. Hey aluminum is FAR better as Cessna has proved! We can make Them! bill Send email to infobot(at)pdsig.n2.net for a directory of other interesting = stuff! ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Bill Nash `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Aircraft Remanufacturing Corp (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' 1531 Avohill Dr _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Vista, Ca 92084 (760) 749 0239 (((),-'' (((),' (((.-' Email: bjnash(at)pdsig.n2.net http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/index.html =20 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash)
Subject: Re: Need more clecoes
Date: Sep 29, 1997
>>I need to buy more clecoes, particularly silver (wing skins). I = figured >>I would see if anyone on The Net had any they wanted to part with = before >>sending an order off to Avery. >> >>I'll probably get 200 or so -- can never have enough, it seems. > We gots lots of clecos, but not too many silvers! Check th auto responder for info: tools(at)pdsig.n2.net Send email to infobot(at)pdsig.n2.net for a directory of other interesting = stuff! ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Bill Nash `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Aircraft Remanufacturing Corp (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' 1531 Avohill Dr _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Vista, Ca 92084 (760) 749 0239 (((),-'' (((),' (((.-' Email: bjnash(at)pdsig.n2.net http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/index.html =20 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com>
Subject: Imron RV-6 Interior
Re: Item 3. I suggest you get Sherwin-Williams product data sheet for the Corrosion Shield Vinyl Etch Primer (type used on the QB kits) which states that sanding is not recommended. It also states that 1 coat of Corrosion Shield should be re-applied if it is not recoated within 4 hours of application. Further, it lists a number of recoat materials none of which are topcoats but other primers or sealers. What I have done so far is to clean the previously coated surfaces with Acryli-Kleen, then shoot it with a light coat of Corrosion Shield before applying a topcoat. I am not too sure this is the right thing to do because coverage seems poor and the final finish is only as good as the primer surface which, in some places, isn't too good. On the next pieces I paint, I plan on using a sealer. I am not too fond of having to do a lot of sanding after sealing, especially inside the cockpit, so I may do that area without sealing it anyway, depending on how the separate sealed pieces come out. I would be interested to know what others have done also! Les Williams/RV-AQ Before I paint the inside of my RV-6 project, I had a few questions... 1) How much Imron will this require (base + catilyst)? 2) 90% of the inside is Sherwin Williams Wash primer, the other 10% is Marhyde. Will the Imron adhere the same to both of these primers? 3) What grit sandpaper should the surface be roughened with? Wet or dry? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash)
Subject: IRCRAFT SPRUCE MOVE
Date: Sep 29, 1997
Some-one commented about the move they just made.... You mean the "Taj Mahal"? It has a big communistic picture of Jim Irwin on the front facade in the front of the building. . (He has a big red bandanna around his forehead). I visited there,in the facility, but was advised they were not really setup for anything truly commercial....... picture a vast Intercontinental Trucking Facility with lines of trucking docks in the back. . Picture a large corner in a major industrial complex. I went in, no-one wanted to deal with me so asked to use the bathroom. Hours later of wandering down pearl and ivory columns halls, I finally found it! I was so ashamed to pee in the gold plated urinal, I went across the street to a gas station! (You all know the tone cant be communicated by email, this a joke, please don't flame me!) I finally found the order desk and they gratefully took my order for 6 #8 PK screws....which they delivered on the spot! bill Send email to infobot(at)pdsig.n2.net for a directory of other interesting stuff! ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Bill Nash `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Aircraft Remanufacturing Corp (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' 1531 Avohill Dr _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Vista, Ca 92084 (760) 749 0239 (((),-'' (((),' (((.-' Email: bjnash(at)pdsig.n2.net http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/index.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ride-NE RV Builders Forum
From: wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen)
Date: Sep 29, 1997
Mike, What's the nearest (small) airport to you. I'm flying from the Hartford Ct area and plan on leaving very early Sat morning. It's out of the way, but I could swing down your way if you can't find anybody else closer, if you're not too far south....... Let me know.... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV (Working on 2'd RV-6A - Chevy Powered!) wstucklen1(at)juno.com writes: > >Anyone in the NY/NJ metro area heading up to the RV builders forum in >Fulton >this weekend-I would be more than happy to share/pay for expenses. >It's a >looong drive. I'm a 20 hour student pilot with an RV-6AQ kit on the >way! > >Regards-Mike Kiess ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Exhaust gate temp gauge location?
From: wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen)
Date: Sep 29, 1997
Cheryl, I agree with Scott except for the distance. My Electronics International installation instruction recommend 2" down from the exhaust flange. Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV (Working on 2'd RV-6A - Chevy Powered!) wstucklen1(at)juno.com writes: > > >> I am getting ready to install my exhaust gas temp. >>gauges and my question is: how far should they be from the >>top of the exhaust pipe? I looked at my documentation but >>there is no mention of this. >> >> Thanks. >> >>Cheryl Sanchez > >Cheryl, > >If my memory is correct, I believe they should be installed 3-6" from the >exhaust flange. If you have multiple EGT sensors, the most important thing >is to keep them the same distance from the top of the pipe. With the >Vetterman exhaust, there was only one place to install them so they are all >the same distance downstream of the exhaust flange. On two of his pipes, >there is a saddle joint. Install the sensors just downstream of this slip >joint. This will put them around 6" downstream of the exhaust flange, right >near the further limit. You do not want to install them within this slip >joint as the sensors will shear off in no time. As long as they are equal >distance downstream, they will accurately show an EGT differential and still >indicate peak EGT. > >Hope this helps. > >Scott Gesele N506RV (finished, still waiting for a $#%^#@# inspection) > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Left hand throttle quadrant
>Hello, I recently flew up to Santa Rosa (Northern CA.) and viewed an RV6 that had the >throttle quadrant on the left hand side. I am interested in incorporating this option >into my aircraft and hope to make the addition of a center quadrant as well. This is cut Steve; I used Vans two knobbed throttle quadrant, took it apart and made it one knob lever. I used the one that the cable connects between the knob and the pivot point. It worked fine for me. Mounted it on the first angle below the main longeron, then placed a bracket just forward of the bulkhead and on the same angle so as to mount the cable housing. Didn't have any plans except an idea as to what I wanted. The two throttle thing has at least three options. Both to a bell crank. Both to the throttle lever with an inner and an outer fork over each other. And one cable to the throttle lever and the other cable connected to it at the eng end. I never got around to that part of it. I intended to do that some day but it was a lot like my other plan when I was a young man. I intended to become a multi millionaire and just never got around to it! If you think I may can answer any of your questions, contact me direct. But no questions about how I was going to become a multi mil. etc. :-) John Darby Stephenville TX johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: gear leg stiffeners
>What's the best kind of wood to use for gear leg stiffeners? > >Randall Henderson Randall; Don't know if it is best or not, but I used what the builders guide suggested. Went to the lumber yard and got some of the trim molding that is often used around doors etc. Each piece has a sort of elongated teardrop profile on the end. Cut some of the insides out to fit over the steel, trimmed the outside and length and covered it with fiberglass then the alum. fairing. Worked fine for me, even sustained my landings. Don't know about what they say that at some future date that there may be some rust form under the wood and glass and you wont know it til the leg collapses. Just check the ends closely? John Darby Stephenville TX johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: ROSS JOHNSON <mobi(at)slkc.uswest.net>
Subject: Tools
I just took delivery of the emp and am very excited. Can any one recommennd a list of tools and source for such. Is air absolutly neccissary. Alternately are electric riveters common? If not I am looking for a quiet compressor. Thank you very much. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: Rick and Barbara Osgood <NoSpamrandbosgood(at)sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: MSP Area
Robbins Mitch wrote: > > I would like to get in touch with RV listers in the Minneapolis St. > Paul > area to acquire some local information. Please reply off list or > email > your telephone number and I'll call. Thanks. > Hi Mitch... I am in Chanhassen and have a workshop at a little grass strip airport in Waconia. Give me a call during the evening at 470-5816. There is a RV group in our area also. We now have approx. 150 members so there are lots of builders out here. Rick Osgood ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: ROSS JOHNSON <mobi(at)slkc.uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Left hand throttle quadrant
Steven Janicki wrote: > > > Hello, I recently flew up to Santa Rosa (Northern CA.) and viewed an RV6 that had the > throttle quadrant on the left hand side. I am interested in incorporating this option > into my aircraft and hope to make the addition of a center quadrant as well. This is to allow > my CFII to feel comfortable during Instrument and other training sessions. > > Can anyone share or point me in the direction of a set of plans and parts? > Regards, > Steve Interested to know the reason for the side stick. Ross. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: KOZINSKI GARY <kozinski(at)symbol.com>
Subject: RV Forum in NY
Did anyone on the list make it to the RV Forum in Fulton, NY this weekend? After flying two hours on Saturday morning and hovering over Utica I finally had to turn back due to thick fog over that entire area. I'd like to hear what I missed... or didn't miss. Gary RV-6 s/n 20038 finishing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com>
Subject: 3rd Annual Northeast RV Forum
Congratulations to the Hosts, for the running of this forum. I wish I had attended the last two, as there was so much useful information presented. The facilities and the food were excellent, and they even arranged wonderfull weather. Ken Hitchmough flew in from Ottawa, and has now recovered from meeting someone approaching him head-on when he was on the downwind. Luckily he had a spare pair of shorts with him. Anyway, well done Bill Hodge and crew. John ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: Donald DiPaula <dipaula(at)access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Franklin Engine
> > I would be interested if there were a larger price difference. But why go to > all the work and worry if there's not a huge advantage? > > A Chevy conversion at least makes future parts requirements laughable and a > firewall forward is available > > A Lycosaur at least fits and has a good re-sale value. > > A Mazda costs a bunch less.....I think. ad in the 10/97 issue of _kitplanes_ (bought for the "building and staying married" article): "350 to 900 hp, Mazda 20B, 3-rotor, twin-turbo, rotary engines $3,950. Ph/Fax: 64-9-2988848, New Zealand. Email: 105654.1753(at)compuserve.com" and another ad: "AVIATOR'S GUIDE TO MAZDA ROTARY CONVERSION. 112 pages - how to use rotary engines on RV-4 and other aircraft. $35 US / $40 Foreign. Newsletter $12/$15 and conversion hardware also available. Tracy Crook, 1936 Nugget Dr., Clearwater, FL 33755. 813-447-6956. 71175.606(at)compuserve.com" this might be the way to go for builders on a budget... i'll call some engine places later and see what typical prices are for a (used, warrantied) mazda engine runs. (i won't tell them about converting it for aviation use....) i'd be surprised if they run more than the $4k quoted above.... -D- SOLD*My 1988 Mazda MX-6 is for sale, email me if interested*SOLD My 1989 Honda CB-1 (CB400F) is for sale, email me if interested, or read my CB-1 description ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick_Smith(at)brahms2.tivoli.com
Date: Sep 29, 1997
Subject: Re: Franklin Engine
The Franklin engine discussion has caused me to rethink the economics of operating a Lycoming. The results are just as Van has often quoted "the best aircraft engine conversion you can get is to convert $10,000 into a used Lycoming" he used to say $5,000 but that was 10 years ago. A Franklin at $12,000 will still require mags $600, carb $750 used, starter $400, some sort of prop adapter $400, new mount, cowl etc. And this engine for a total cost about $14,000 if you are lucky of may give you 1,500 hours before it needs an overhaul. This equates to $9.43 per hour. Whereas a lycoming at $19,000 with a 2000hr TBO equates to $9.5 per hour then you still have a Lycoming core that is still worth as much as a nice sports car. And to really be fair the cost of a lycoming with 500 hours on it will cost about $10,000-$14,000. The Stinson 108 that originally came with Franklins have mostly all been converted to Lycomings, makes you wonder why. This was not written to be critical of Franklins or any other aircraft engine, but only to express my pleasure and fortune of flying behind a Lycoming. My partner and have a 0-360 that we bought as a core and had overhauled by Larry Brown Aviation in Tulsa. We are using a $300 Sterba Prop that performs flawlessly even without the free repitch that he offers. For a total cost of approximately $14,000 ($7.00 per hour with prop) it runs great, is very smooth and does not go to automatic rough when crossing mountains or water. And any A&P knows how to fix it. Which brings me to the original question I wrote this message for. What is the recommended, or most popular method of operating the boost pump? Common sense tells me to run it anytime you don't want to depend on the mechanical pump to keep your engine running so we run it anytime below 1000 feet agl. We have heard that the Cherokee owners manual does not advise using it for takeoffs. All suggestions and comments are very welcome. And remember, even if it took twice as long it would be worth it! Rick Rick ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: Keith Warfield <kpwarfield(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Marhyde Primer
chester razer wrote: Will someone give me a phone # for a mail order location for Marhyde grey primer in quart cans. Chet, Check with Sherwin Williams. My local distributor carrys the Marhyde primer. Although I've just switched to the Sherwin Williams brand of "self etching gray primer" and don't know how good it is, I've been assured by the salesman I deal with, and trust, that it is "as good or better" than the Marhydye brand. Big difference in price, Marhydye $17.00 per 19 oz spray can, Sherwin Williams $5.00 per 15 oz can. Both are also available in ready to spray quart cans also, which is even lower cost per oz. Keith Warfield RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: Franklin Engine
Date: Sep 29, 1997
charset="iso-8859-1" Rick, The Stinsons that came with the Franklin got converted to Lycomings after the Franklin company and tooling were sold lock, stock and barrel to the state aircraft industry in Poland sometime in the 60's. Parts became harder and harder to get, so the conversion looked good to many folks. At least that is the story I was told (and read about in the Aviation Consumer). Steve Soule Huntington, Vermont <<<<<<......The Stinson 108 that originally came with Franklins have mostly all been converted to Lycomings, makes you wonder why.....>>> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 29, 1997
Subject: Re: Canopy Cap
<< I read a prior message in the RV archives which mentioned you have made some caps for the RV-6/6A Sliding canopys. I would sure like to purchase one if you still have some. I just finished putting my rear skirts on my sliding canopy. If you can sell me one, please give me an address that I can mail the money too. >> Ron- Yes, I still have 5 of them from the first production run of 50. If these sell out, I will have 50 more made. So don't wait. Send $10 (includes domestic shipping and handling) and your shipping address to Gary VanRemortel 1963 Badgerwood Ln, Milpitas, CA 95035. As soon as I have your check, it will be in the U.S. Mail. Thx, -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bumflyer(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 29, 1997
Subject: Re: Left hand throttle quadrant
In a message dated 9/29/97 0:01:02, you wrote: >This is to allow >my CFII to feel comfortable during Instrument and other training sessions. This is a very personal thing and that's the joy of building a personal airplane so good luck and have fun. However for what it's worth, here is my thinking: I did a bit of research and looked in to many schemes to get a dual throttle set up so I could fly with the stick in my right hand and the throttle in the left since I had been doing that for so long. As the engineering and building complexity grew, and I saw the added building time looming in front of me, I decided to invest in a little pure research. I went up in an RV-6 and flew it left handed for a while. My discovery was it took about a minute to get accustomed to this. There are a lot of RV flyers out there flying left handed and it is not a problem. Please consider setting it up per the plans and I guarantee you a CFII would not have a problem with it after a few minutes of familiarization. After 40 hours or so, I finally flew my plane from the right seat to make sure I could see every thing from the right seat. I was amazed to catch myself switching to the left hand as it now felt more "natural". Also the other two RV-6 pilots who have flown with me did the same thing! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: Ken Brown <kbrown(at)stellcom.com>
Subject: Re: Franklin Engine
> > ><< The turkey motor is $16000. >> > >I assume this was a Freudian slip? No, a Freudian slip is when you say one thing, but mean your mother. :-) -K- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Franklin Engine
> Whereas a > lycoming at $19,000 with a 2000hr TBO equates to $9.5 per hour then you > still have a Lycoming core > Rick > If you treat that Lyc. nicely you'll get more than 2000 Hrs. The O-360 that just came out of '85W had 2700 on the bottom end and 1900 on the top. The shop that OHed it said the bottom looked like new. The crank has over 6000 Hrs. on it. It was within _new_ limits. We change the oil every 50 Hrs and fly by the MP guage (25" max for climb, 23" max for cruze). We paid $14K for the OH, so that works out to about 5 bucks/Hr. Show me any other mill that will deliver thas sort of bang for the buck _and_ reliability and I'll buy it. Chris ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil>
Subject: Re: Don't Fly an Extra (unless you can afford one)
Doug, Saw the article on your RV in Sport Pilot. Nice photography, nice plane. I now have the centerspread hanging on the wall in my office to show the curious passers by what it is I am building at home. Mike Wills RV-4 (wings) willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil > >I was in Springfield IL doing some B-25 Training and got to fly an Extra >300L. I'll stick with my RV. > >Just remember , Don't fly one..... > >Tailwinds, N240 the pink panther >Doug Rozendaal >dougr(at)petroblend.com >www.petroblend.com/dougr ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)a.crl.com>
Subject: Re: Imron RV-6 Interior
Glenn: SInce I painted my RV-6 interior with Impron, I think I can answer your questions. >1) How much Imron will this require (base + catilyst)? I used two quarts but I was pretty sloppy. (That's two 'quarts' of paint plus a pint of activator. Note that each quart container of imron is not full. By saying "two quarts", I mean to quarts of mixed, ready-to-shoot paint. Buy two quarts of paint and a pint of activator.) >2) 90% of the inside is Sherwin Williams Wash primer, the other 10% is >Marhyde. Will the Imron adhere the same to both of these primers? I suspect that the Sherwin WIlliams primer will be OK, as it is a lot like Veriprime, which is one of the recommended primers for Imron. You will probably want to rough up the Marhyde a bit though. > >3) What grit sandpaper should the surface be roughened with? Wet or >dry? 400 grit wet. Anything courser will leave sand scratchess when the paint cures. I assume you know about the isocyanate in Imron and the need for a supplied-air respirator anytime you shoot Imron, so I won't go into detail on the subject. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB cowling ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough)
Date: Sep 29, 1997
Subject: Re: 3rd Annual Northeast RV Forum
John Cocker wrote: Ken Hitchmough flew in from Ottawa, and has now recovered from meeting someone approaching him head-on when he was on the downwind. Luckily he had a spare pair of shorts with him. Just to mention that this WASN'T another RV. The fly in was great, lots of good conversation and some fine examples of RVs. I should also mention that I've never seen a harder working guy than Bill Benedict...every time I looked he was taxying with another potential builder for a tryout in the RV8. Then again, maybe it wasn't work after all...the '8 just looked and flew like a dream....kinda wet my appetite for building again, especially now I know there's a trike version in the works. Well done organisers. Ken RV6A Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: RELOSVCS!WESTREG!EHENSON(at)cldwell.attmail.com (Henson, Eric)
Subject: Tank baffle rivets
Hi Gang, Just wanted to ask before I jumped. Van says to countersink the row of rivets that attach the rear of the tank skin to the baffle (last bit o' riveting in the tank sealing operation). Is there any reason I should not dimple them? I much prefer the holding power of dimpled skins but I sure don't want to screw it up now. Thanks in advance. Eric Henson Dana Point, CA ehenson(at)cldwell.attmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ShelbyRV6A(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 29, 1997
Subject: Re: AOPA Pilot review of RV-8
A couple of items I question. $40,000 complete with vision micro, constant speed etc. ????!? 1050 lbs. 172 knots. The engine must have been fairly cheap and pumped. Shelby ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: Rick and Barbara Osgood <NoSpamrandbosgood(at)sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: Tools
ROSS JOHNSON wrote: > > I just took delivery of the emp and am very excited. > Can any one recommennd a list of tools and source for such. > Is air absolutly neccissary. Alternately are electric riveters common? > > If not I am looking for a quiet compressor. > Thank you very much. > I would talk to Avery's in Texas, Good guy, good tools, If you ask you can get a slight discount on the first order. Air is a must..... It is interesting how few times you will use it compared to the total time of building, but you do need it. Good luck Rick ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com>
Subject: First Flight N506RV
Listers, The day that we all work towards came for me this past Saturday. I flew N506RV, my RV-6A, for it's maiden flight. I wish I could put into words the feeling on initial climb out in an aircraft that I built myself. Those who have been there before know what I'm talking about, for those still under construction, YES it was worth the sacrifices over the past 4 1/2 years. This is one neat plane. Three "problems" appeared during the flight. First, the C/S prop needs some slight adjustments. The engine oversped by about 30 RPM's (gotta love the digital display and warning on the RMI engine monitor). Second, the left fuel cap needs to be tightened as some fuel spilled out the cap. Third, the fuel pressure dropped to 1 psi with the boost pump off. The alarm went off on the engine monitor and I immediately landed. After speaking with Van's, this is normal and has not caused any problems. Low fuel pressure occurs in about 20% of the RV's when flying with full tanks. Some fuel gets into the vent tube and results in the low pressure. According to Lycoming, 1/2 psi is the minimum. Some details: Aircraft: RV-6A Project Started: 4/20/93, at the age of 23 First Flight: 9/27/97, at 28 Engine: Lycoming O-320 (from Van's) Prop: Hartzell (from Van's) Canopy: Tip-Up Panel: "basic IFR" Hardest Parts: getting started initially and painting Looking back on this project, I have no regrets at all. Sure, I had the days where I said, "Why did I start this %^&^&% project?!?" With the friends that I've made, skills learned and finished product, I wouldn't change a thing. I'll keep the list updated on the flight tests. 1/2 hour down, 24.5 to go :) Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying .... Yippee (Marquart Charger plans on order :) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com>
Subject: Re: Rocky Mountain Fuel Pressure Readings
>A Friend (Steve Chia) just finished and flew his RV6-a. > >He is getting fluctuations between 2 to 5 PSI on the fuel pressure >indications. Is this normal for a Rocky Mountain engine monitor? The >engine runs smooth at all times. Turning on the boost pump typically >raises the reading by 1 psi. > >I didn't see any information on this subject in the archives. > >Can anyone provide some insight on this? > >Thanks >Tom Olson > Tom, Just flew my RV-6A for the first time :)) I landed after 30 minutes as the RMI engine monitor indicated 1 psi (my alarm point) with the boost pump off. With the boost pump on, it rose to 4 psi. I had full tanks. According to Van's, this happens frequently with full tanks. Some fuel gets into the vent line and kind of blocks the vent a little. I asked if this ever caused an engine failure and was told that if that ever happened, the fuel system would be immediately redesigned. In the Lycoming operating manual, 1/2 psi is the minimum. If this doesn't help, call Van's. I initially thought there were major problems with my fuel system. They were very helpful in diagnosing the problem and assuring me that what I was seeing in flight was normal given the circumstances (full fuel). As always, keep the boost pump on at low altitudes. Hope this helps. Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying..... Yippee ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: prototype rv-3 photos wanted
I can't believe I spent the whole week at Oshkosh and didn't get any photos of the prototype RV-3 N17RV sitting there at the entrance to the RV parking area. I need one to cap off the article on the restoration project on the Home Wing Home Page. If anyone has photos and access to a scanner, could you scan 1 or 2 and email them to me (PRIVATELY)? I'd sure appreciate it. Or if you are in the VAF Home Wing group, maybe just bring it to the meeting? Thanks in advance. Randall Henderson randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: mauser(at)claris.com (Richard Chandler)
Subject: Re: Don't Fly an Extra (unless you can afford one)
> > I was in Springfield IL doing some B-25 Training and got to fly an > Extra 300L. Unless you can afford one don't do it! What a machine. > > Before the flames all start flying, let me tell you the closest thing > to it that is affordable is an RV. The Extra climbs at 3000 fpm the RV > at 1500, The Extra rolls at 420 deg./sec, the RV at ~200, The > Extra cruises at 180 kts the RV at 160, > > But, The RV burns 8 gph the Extra burns 16, The RV runs about $40,000, > the Extra $320,000. While if I could afford one I would love to have > the Extra. However, if I put $280,000 in the Stock Market and flew the > RV instead I could have alot of fun doing other things with the rest > of the money. I'll stick with my RV. So in other words, you just don't have the extra money? :-) (Personally, I'm more jealous of you getting time in a B-25.) -- Richard Chandler RV-6: Garage bought and being finished, saving for tools and tail kit. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HOB1234(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 29, 1997
Subject: Re: AOPA Pilot review of RV-8
Had a chance to ride in a RV-8 sept 21, at Mason, Mi. It was great did loops and barrel rolls. Bill Benidict was flying and he gave me the chance to take the controls. It was love at first flight and I can not forget the thrill. RV-8 wannabe, see how deep the pockets are, it will happen . Randy Sproat HOB1234(at)AOL.COM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WAYNE FEGGESTAD <wayne@swing-n-slide.com>
Subject: misc.
Date: Sep 29, 1997
1) what would be an appropriate solution to prep vari-prime for painting? (remove fingerprints etc.) 2) Would it be advantagous to use lock-tite on elevator rod ends? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: "Ray Murphy, Jr." <murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us>
Subject: Re: Franklin Engine
I am a part owner of a Cherokee and the owners manual says to use boost pump for take off and for landings. >Which brings me to the original question I wrote this message for. >What is the recommended, or most popular method of operating the boost >pump? Common sense tells me to run it anytime you don't want to depend on >the mechanical pump to keep your engine running so we run it anytime below >1000 feet agl. We have heard that the Cherokee owners manual does not >advise using it for takeoffs. >All suggestions and comments are very welcome. >And remember, even if it took twice as long it would be worth it! >Rick >Rick Ray and Nancy Murphy murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us RV6A empenage raft and hope to make the addition of a center quadrant as well. This is to allow > > my CFII to feel comfortable during Instrument and other training sessions. > > > > Can anyone share or point me in the direction of a set of plans and parts? > > Regards, > > Steve > > Interested to know the reason for the side stick. > Ross. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 29, 1997
Subject: Doug Rozendaal (AKA Pink Panther)
Doug, Just a quick note to say congrads on the nice article and beautifull pictures in Sport Pilot. These are by far some of the best in flight RV pictures ive seen yet. Not everyone gets a chance to fly with the heavy iron (P51)! Looks like fun. Ryan B. RV4 131RB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JOHN CRATE" <JOHN.CRATE(at)encode.com>
Subject: RV-6 Rear Spar
Date: Sep 29, 1997
I am assembling the rear spar using Frank Justice's assembly notes (from the Hovan Web Page) as a supplement to Van's construction manual. In these notes it mentions marking and cutting the fuselage skin clearance notch in the W-607D doubler as per revision 10, drawing #14. My drawing #14 only shows revision 1 thru 8. What are revisions 9 & 10, and do I need to incorporate them at this time. John Crate rv-6a Hope to get wings in jig soon! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: McManD(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 29, 1997
Subject: Tip Up Canopy Presentation
As previuosly promised, all of you whom are interested and might have got the generic LP Aero *.awd (fax files) and desire more. Fresh from the 3rd annual RV forum held in Oswego NY. You may e'mail a request to McManD(at)aol.com asking for a e'mail back to you with a file attached. Said file is the presentation that I did up for my part of the RV forum which is in fax format. It will be labeled Tipup1.awd (extensionis a file to be opened up with a fax viewer) As it states I do not claim to be an expert, just experienced. And judging from the interest in the visual aid I took to the seminar (my first cracked canopy) the lessons were appreciated. Respectfully David McManmon, Cicero NY, RV6 tip up, 0320H2AD, canopy #2 ready to glass in completely now. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Engine ground locations
> >I ran the ground (negative) wire from the battery directly to a bolt that I >installed just below where the oil filler tube connects to the engine; there >was a hole in the case at that point. Don't know if that's the 'approved' >location but it works fine for me. I then ran a wire from the engine back >to the firewall to ground the airframe. My reasoning was to have the >shortest path for the starter current. I believe this is preferable to attaching to any "engine mount bolts" . . . an independent ground connection with no structural responsabilities. Bob . . . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Craig Nelson <cgn(at)pond.net>
Subject: Yeller Pages
Date: Sep 29, 1997
Could some one off list send me the address for the Yeller Pages. I cleaned up my computer address book by mistake one day. Thank you! Craig Nelson serial # 25101 cgn(at)pond.net Eugene, OR building left wing PRO SEALING TANK ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Newman" <bn(at)crosslink.net>
Date: Sep 29, 1997
Subject: Re: Franklin Engine
> The Stinson 108 that originally came with Franklins have mostly all been > converted to Lycomings, makes you wonder why. No No No...There was a time long ago when a swap from the stock 165 HP Franklin to a Lycoming (190 HP if I remember correctly) was available, but the conversion added a lot of weight and it was not very successful. The majority of Stinsons still fly behind either a 150 or 165 HP Franklin. A handful do have other conversions. The 6 cylinder Franklin is a real pleasure to fly behind. It is an exceptionally smooth powerplant...the 4 banger Lycoming is not in the same league at all. If the new ones are still like the 165, they have a neat little cover that is easily removed to allow inspection of the bottom end. It seems to me that if you compare prices of brand new certified engines, rather than new Franklin vs rebuilt something else , the engine is worthy of consideration. Try a ride in a Stinson 108 or maybe a Maule with a 220 HP Franklin if you can find one. Bob Newman bn(at)crosslink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net>
Subject: Re: Don't Fly an Extra (unless you can afford one)
Date: Sep 29, 1997
--------- > From: Mike Wills <nosc.mil!willsm(at)matronics.com> > > Doug, > Saw the article on your RV in Sport Pilot. Nice photography, nice plane. I > now have the centerspread hanging on the wall in my office to show the > curious passers by what it is I am building at home. Just so everyone knows, I did not paint my airplane pink! I bought it that way. I did however put the panther on the tail. It was cheaper than a new paint job. And now that It has the panther on it it is really a lot of fun. At one Airshow I found it with a puddle of pink oil (pepto bismol) under it. Thank you for the kind words Tailwinds, N240 the pink panther Doug Rozendaal dougr(at)petroblend.com www.petroblend.com/dougr ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: alexpeterson <alexpeterson(at)MCI2000.com>
Subject: Re: Tank baffle rivets
---------- > Just wanted to ask before I jumped. Van says to countersink the row of > rivets that attach the rear of the tank skin to the baffle (last bit o' > riveting in the tank sealing operation). Is there any reason I should not > dimple them? I much prefer the holding power of dimpled skins but I sure > don't want to screw it up now. Thanks in advance. If it is dimpled, it may be hard to push into place. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TNguyen500(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 29, 1997
Subject: Re: Tank baffle rivets
<< Van says to countersink the row of rivets that attach the rear of the tank skin to the baffle (last bit o' riveting in the tank sealing operation). Is there any reason I should not dimple them? >> Eric, You need to countersink that row of rivets that attach the rear of the tank skin to the baffle. I am currently working on my fuel tank and plan to do just that. T.Nguyen RV-6A Fuel Tank ________________________________________________________________________________
From: McManD(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 30, 1997
Subject: Oswego RV Forum (unofficial)
Unofficial Report: I attended the RV forum on both Friday evening and Saturday. My review would go as (counts might be off +/-3%): Friday PM kick off, Burger BBQ, pre registration, poor weather, 2 RV's made it, 1 RV6 from Canada and 1 yellow RV8 from ???? well you must know where. As well as 2 or 3 spam cans and 3 brave souls to camp out on airport grounds in 4 wheeled land based vehicles. There was also @20 more who drove in to motel stay, for early am start up. Later we went out in a small group, had a adult beverage and talked about planes. Life is good. Early Saturday AM. FOG, and yup you could hear the planes circling above and a RV IFR doing missed approaches. The cover was thick ceiling was low. By 9:00? as anybody expect it started to clear up and yes as we all heard many pilots were lining up on the first available runway they spotted and approached it to land. For a time the active runway on CATF as pilots reported was any one of the 4 they could find. Oswego unicom consistantly reported and as the winds dictated "favored runway 15". So did the departing Piper cub which thank god took a hand held, anounced taking the active 15, and held their hand held to ear prior to take off roll was awfuly strong, for a formation of 2 reported short final and landed with the tail wind on a direct path of Piper on opposite end AKA runway 33. It was interesting for a while. But by 11? the day was absolutely great. No other flying issues that I was aware of. The seminars went off with out a hitch. Many attendees at each presentation going to that which interested them. There also was a steady batch of planes giving rides. All told I heard there was some 52 rides given. There was @140 attendees and I believe over 20 RV's, @10 more spams, a Baby great lakes, a Stearman or Waco, a Delta Dike, a Kitfox and finaly what appeared as a new Cessna 172 Skyhawk too.. Many quality RV series A/C were presented and the Canadian planes and attendees showed up in strength once again, thanks again to our northern friends. The Senserinch (geez how do they spell that?, flame bait for sure!) propeller flolks came in a single cessna to present and display too. Now the yellow RV8 #2 was of course a big hit. And Bill Benedict a great draw, a fine gentleman and endless generous pilot. Bill had to give many RV 8 rides for there surely was interest, and he did so with out complaint or reliefs. Bill was the MC for the evening's dinner award presentation and the Avery, Sporty's, AOPA and other's I forgot (sorry!) fine selection of donated door prises were just great. Then speaking for Van's A/C he donated back the gas ride refuel promissory slips for EAA 486 to make a dollar for dollar donation back to EAA young eagles RV6 project, very nice!!!. Extra thanks to factory effort and Bill to come out to this event on the east coast. Sunday had a small turn out at a (haistly put together, my fault) builders open house/garage to see my RV6 about ready for cowl fitting and engine hanging. Kinda feels good not to have Bill ...well "not" say...ummm Dave in this area...you'd better look at that in the plans again..... must mean most of my build is OK right? The RV forum contunies to grow, and the workers like Bill Hodge and Ken Graves and other 486 members surely do deserve applause. Food was good and generous, and the admission price reasonable too. This year continues a fine tradition, and next year probably shouldn't be missed. I saw a mini fly market with parts for sale, was also available. Why shortly Oswego might get the mistaken identy of Oshkosh... Laugh HUH well... Why yes it's true, for today at 1:30pm the EAA B17"Aluminum Overcast" had landed right outside of EAA486's hanger. (HONEST). It will depart this Thurday pm. So if in area 12:30 to sunset minus 1 hour, get to KFZY or old charts N00 and see it up closer that you'd probably ever get to during a OSH covention. Respectfully, David McManmon (RV6 Cicero, Oswego EAA 486 member too) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Re: First Flight N506RV
Congratulations, Scott. Welcome to the club. Be careful and have fun! Regards, Bob Skinner ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Tools
Date: Sep 29, 1997
> > >I just took delivery of the emp and am very excited. >Can any one recommennd a list of tools and source for such. >Is air absolutly neccissary. Alternately are electric riveters common? >If not I am looking for a quiet compressor. >Thank you very much. > > > > Ross, Yes, Air is a MUST...no way around it...and it's gonna make some noise..but only when it's running. So, buy one with a reasonable air tank on it..mine has a 30 gallon. It only runs at random intervals, and for less than a minute at a time. The MOST noise will come from OTHER tools...Scotchbrite wheel, bandsaw, air drill, and rivet gun! Avery is the FINEST vendor for tools that I've found. Do NOT..repeat...DO NOT go to ATS for tooling! I bashed so many rivets with their poorly machined sets I'd like to toss them through their window. Avery is VERY cost competitive..and the results are far better. They also deliver quickly..and are very courteous on the phone. No, I don't work for them...:-) Enjoy! Brian Denk RV-8 #379 waitin on the wingkit ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us>
Subject: Re: Franklin Engine
I've seen alot of Stinson 108's, but they all had the Franklins, narry a one had a Lycoming........just my observation. Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Don't Fly an Extra (unless you can afford one)
Date: Sep 29, 1997
> >> >> I was in Springfield IL doing some B-25 Training and got to fly an >> Extra 300L. Unless you can afford one don't do it! What a machine. >(Personally, I'm more jealous of you getting time in a B-25.) > > >-- >Richard Chandler >RV-6: Garage bought and being finished, saving for tools and tail kit. > To all, ROGER that comment on the B-25!! The mega-buck acro machines will be around for years to come...the warbirds? And, from one who has some time in a B-17G...the memory will stay with you for life. :) And, for anyone interested...I have some close friends who have an unlimited class monoplane for sale..only $125K..IO-540 by Demars, Staudacher wing, Rebel fuselage, Stephens Akro tail, MT prop, smoke, flawless construction by A&P/IA and only a year old. Email me if you'd like a scanned photo. Oh, it'll eat an Extra for lunch..in every way. See? Ya can have yer Acro-cake and eat it too! Brian Denk RV-8 #379 waitin on the wingkit ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Franklin Engine
Date: Sep 29, 1997
> > > > >The 6 cylinder Franklin is a real pleasure to fly behind. It is an >exceptionally smooth powerplant...the 4 banger Lycoming is not in the >same league at all. If the new ones are still like the 165, they >have a neat little cover that is easily removed to allow inspection >of the bottom end. It seems to me that if you compare prices of >brand new certified engines, rather than new Franklin vs rebuilt >something else , the engine is worthy of consideration. >Try a ride in a Stinson 108 or maybe a Maule with a 220 HP Franklin >if you can find one. > > >Bob Newman >bn(at)crosslink.net > > >Bob, Exactly my impressions. A very good engine...that never received the same time in the limelight as the Lycosaur. Also, from a trusted A&P friend who's worked on many Franklins...says it's a well engineered powerplant, smooth, reliable...and worth considering. Hmm. Still undecided myself for my -8...so many choices! But..it's down the road for me....only have the tail done! Just my couple of Pesos on the matter.. Flyin' Brian Denk ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: "Larry D. Hoatson" <lhoatson(at)e2.empirenet.com>
Subject: Half-Moon Bay Airshow
Hello Listers, We plan on attending the Half-Moon Bay Airshow October 4-5, and wondered if anyone from the list would be there? I understand they're featuring the RV's this year. Looking forward to meeting some fellow-listers... Larry -- Larry D. Hoatson lhoatson(at)empirenet.com Restoring 1950 Cessna 170A N9948A... Looking forward to RV-6 "Either Raise Your Skill Level... or Lower Your Standards" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: First Flight N506RV
Bob Skinner wrote: > > > Congratulations, Scott. Welcome to the club. Be careful and have fun! > > Regards, > > Bob Skinner > Scott I too would like to say congratulations. I have probably been flying my RV-6 longer than any other person on the RV-List (other than Van's) and I can only say I still take a moment on every flight to ponder the fact that I actually took a pile of aluminum and made something that I fly around in the sky and trust my life my family and my friends lives. It is a accomplishment that earth bound people and non builder pilots will ever experience. Again CONGRATULATIONS and FLY SAFE. Jerry Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 30, 1997
Subject: Re: Franklin Engine
<< The O-360 Lyc that just came out of '85W had 2700 on the bottom end and 1900 on the top. The bottom end was like new.>> But, what did they think of the condition of the cylinder heads? -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 30, 1997
Subject: Re: Yeller Pages
<< Could some one off list send me the address for the Yeller Pages. I cleaned up my computer address book by mistake one day. >> http://www.sound.net/~hartmann/yelrpage.htm They're also linked from www.vansaircraft.com -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net (Chris Brooks)
Date: Sep 30, 1997
Subject: Re: Tank baffle rivets
Eric, I dimpled mine with no problem, I put the clecoed tank on the wing first and checked to make sure the dimples would clear the mounting flange on the wing. You will have to C/S the forward row of screw holes. Chris Brooks Murfreesboro,TN RV6, Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 1997
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Tank baffle rivets
Is there any reason I should not >dimple them? I much prefer the holding power of dimpled skins but I sure >don't want to screw it up now. Thanks in advance. > Eric, I dimpled mine. That doesn't make it right, but it worked. It was like a snap in plastic assembly when I tried the fit before final assembly. The dimples snapped together and then it was difficult getting the rear baffle out. As well as I remember it took some needle nose pliers etc to get the dimples apart to allow the baffle to come out. It was unusual for me. Usually, I get things to come apart fairly easy and then have trouble getting them back together. It did make me have some real thought for the pro seal when final assembly came. i.e. Would it scrape all of the pro seal off as I snapped the parts together? I finally figured it was like a hinged door, what surface would 'squeeze' it in and what surface may scrape it off. But the pro seal did its' job. Press on. John Darby Stephenville TX johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net>
Subject: Re: Don't Fly an Extra (unless you can afford one)
Date: Sep 30, 1997
---------- > From: Richard Chandler <claris.com!mauser(at)matronics.com> > > So in other words, you just don't have the extra money? :-) Exactly! doug ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 1997
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: First Flight N506RV
>the fuel pressure dropped to 1 psi with the boost pump off. The alarm went >off on the engine monitor and I immediately landed. After speaking with >Van's, this is normal and has not caused any problems. Low fuel pressure >occurs in about 20% of the RV's when flying with full tanks. Some fuel gets >into the vent tube and results in the low pressure. According to Lycoming, >1/2 psi is the minimum. > Scott; First off, congratulations. It is a great feeling, isn't it? What you experienced with the fuel pressure, I had the same thing at times, not low enough to effect the engine running, but low enough to cause me to pucker. It was usually on climb out, after turning off the boost, and corrected at level off. Never entered my mind that it may be the vent tube. I usually filled mine after each flight, and it could well have been. But I don't understand why it would. The vent tube was slanted to obtain some pressure from the speed, and since the flow wasn't that great, I assumed the vent would permit virtually unrestricted flow. It doesn't make sense to me, but much doesn't. John Darby Stephenville TX johnd@our-town.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 30, 1997
Subject: Re: First Flight N506RV
<< Three "problems" appeared during the flight. First, the C/S prop needs some slight adjustments. The engine oversped by about 30 RPM's (gotta love the digital display and warning on the RMI engine monitor). Screw in the adjustor screw about 2 turnd for ea 25 RPM adjusment desired. Re-safety. Second, the left fuel cap needs to be tightened as some fuel spilled out the cap. Loosen locknut, and turn the bottom aluminum disc to tighten the seal. Some of "Skinner's Fuel Loob " will help here. Re-tighten locknut. BTW- I replaced the plastic pcs under the levers on my caps with some scrap SS- much improved operation. Third, the fuel pressure dropped to 1 psi with the boost pump off. The alarm went off on the engine monitor and I immediately landed. After speaking with Van's, this is normal and has not caused any problems. Low fuel pressure occurs in about 20% of the RV's when flying with full tanks. Some fuel gets into the vent tube and results in the low pressure. According to Lycoming, 1/2 psi is the minimum. >> You can put some "pitot tubes" on your fuel vents to gain a bit more pressure- they could be in a low pressure area somehow. Check the pics of my bird on SA. I put a pc of folded 040 safety wire in the ends to keep the critters out. Congrats on the new flight! The fight really is worth it, isn't it? You must be really hooked to build a Charger next- Nice looking bipe. Now you get to sniff fabric glue! Check six! Mark HR 2 180 hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 30, 1997
Subject: Re: Tools
<< If not I am looking for a quiet compressor. > Thank you very much. > >> Just a note- I guess I'm looking for a new compressor, too. I left mine on the other night. Upon returning to the shop the next morning, I found the dang thing had leaked itself empty. I could tell, because the shop was full of air. Harumph. Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: "Steven Janicki" <SJANICKI(at)us.oracle.com>
Subject: Re: Left hand throttle quadrant
--=_ORCL_50189687_0_11919709300723240 John, Thanks for the tips. Can you share any drawings and/or photo's? I am very interested in your bell crank idea as well. Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The statements and opinions expressed here are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Oracle Corporation. When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return. -- Leonardo Da Vinci Steven B. Janicki Director of Client Services ORACLE Data Center Voice (415)506-2740 Fax (415)633-2933 --=_ORCL_50189687_0_11919709300723240 Date: 29 Sep 97 05:31:42 From:"John Darby " Subject:Re: RV-List: Left hand throttle quadrant >Hello, I recently flew up to Santa Rosa (Northern CA.) and viewed an RV6 that had the >throttle quadrant on the left hand side. I am interested in incorporating this option >into my aircraft and hope to make the addition of a center quadrant as well. This is cut Steve; I used Vans two knobbed throttle quadrant, took it apart and made it one knob lever. I used the one that the cable connects between the knob and the pivot point. It worked fine for me. Mounted it on the first angle below the main longeron, then placed a bracket just forward of the bulkhead and on the same angle so as to mount the cable housing. Didn't have any plans except an idea as to what I wanted. The two throttle thing has at least three options. Both to a bell crank. Both to the throttle lever with an inner and an outer fork over each other. And one cable to the throttle lever and the other cable connected to it at the eng end. I never got around to that part of it. I intended to do that some day but it was a lot like my other plan when I was a young man. I intended to become a multi millionaire and just never got around to it! If you think I may can answer any of your questions, contact me direct. But no questions about how I was going to become a multi mil. etc. :-) John Darby Stephenville TX johnd@our-town.com --=_ORCL_50189687_0_11919709300723240 name="anonymous-attachment-1"; charset="us-ascii" filename="anonymous-attachment-1"


John, Thanks for the tips.  Can you share any drawings and/or photo's?
 
I am very interested in your bell crank idea as well.

Regards,   
  
Steve   
  
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
The statements and opinions expressed here are my own and   
do not necessarily represent those of Oracle Corporation.    
 
When once you have tasted flight,  
you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,  
for there you have been, and there you will always long to return.  

                                           -- Leonardo Da Vinci

                                          
Steven B. Janicki          
Director of Client Services  
ORACLE Data Center                        
Voice (415)506-2740                                
Fax (415)633-2933        
                                                           
  
  
  
 


 
 


--=_ORCL_50189687_0_11919709300723240-- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 1997
From: "Steven Janicki" <SJANICKI(at)us.oracle.com>
Subject: Re: Left hand throttle quadrant
--=_ORCL_50191632_0_11919709300726580 Having flown Helicopters for 1000s of hours plus Citabrias, Pilatus, etc. I am very comfortable with the right hand stick and left hand throttle. It is strange that fighter aircraft, RV,4,8, etc. are this way and others are the opposite. Would be nice to have a single standard. Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The statements and opinions expressed here are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Oracle Corporation. When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return. -- Leonardo Da Vinci Steven B. Janicki Director of Client Services ORACLE Data Center Voice (415)506-2740 Fax (415)633-2933 --=_ORCL_50191632_0_11919709300726580 Date: 29 Sep 97 05:49:48 From:"ROSS JOHNSON " Subject:Re: RV-List: Left hand throttle quadrant Steven Janicki wrote: > > > Hello, I recently flew up to Santa Rosa (Northern CA.) and viewed an RV6 that had the > throttle quadrant on the left hand side. I am interested in incorporating this option > into my aircraft and hope to make the addition of a center quadrant as well. This is to allow > my CFII to feel comfortable during Instrument and other training sessions. > > Can anyone share or point me in the direction of a set of plans and parts? > Regards, > Steve Interested to know the reason for the side stick. Ross. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 1997
From: Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com>
Subject: Re: First Flight N506RV
Congratulations and welcome to the Airborne Division of Van's Airforce. In regards to fuel pressure, at the RV Fly In last weekend, someone said their breather tube became obstructed by an insect, and they noticed the tank was "caving in". While flying they could see the leading edge was distorting. >John ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Tip Up Canopy Presentation
From: lm4(at)juno.com (Larry Mac Donald)
Date: Sep 30, 1997
(EDT)aol.com!McManD(at)matronics.com writes: RV-List message posted by: McManD(at)aol.com As previuosly promised, Fresh from the 3rd annual RV forum held in Oswego NY. You may e'mail a request to McManD(at)aol.com asking for a e'mail back to you with a file attached. As it states I do not claim to be an expert, just experienced. And judging from the interest in the visual aid I took to the seminar (my first cracked canopy) the lessons were appreciated. David McManmon, Cicero NY, RV6 tip up, 0320H2AD, canopy #2 Dave, You couldn't be more right. Where could I go to see and touch a builders ( very expensive ) mistake. And then learn what I can do to avoid that mistake. Your lecture was very educational and enjoyable. Thanks a lot. Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 1997
From: Alan Brown <103612.2516(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Tools
<> Ross, I've been researching this for quite some time. Wish I had my empenage kit. = Anyway, just got back from a weekend builders class at Avery's in Ft. Worth. They are, in my opinion, the best tool suppliers. Cleaveland Too= l has good stuff, but not wild about their packages. To each his own. The= Avery hand squeezer is the best in the business. Avery's number is (800)= 652-8379. Cleaveland Tool is (800) 368-1822. Cleaveland's Tank dies for= the fuel tanks are recommended by Van's. DO NOT go with the other "big" professional tool manufacturers. You'll be sorry if you do!!!! Many dissapointed customers. Avery's and Cleaveland are all RV builders. You= can get some things like snips cheaper at your local hardware store and Walmart. Pro Snips or Wiss either one. = NO, you cannot build this airplane with electric alone. You MUST have ai= r. Even electric drills don't turn fast enought for aluminum. Aluminum lik= es fast drill bits, not slow electric one's. They do not make an electric riveter, at least not that I've ever heard of. Sorry, but I can't believ= e you already bought the tail kit without looking into this more. Go take = a builders class. PLEASE!!!! Avery's class is $250 and well worth it. Ver= y personalized, small classes. There's a lot more to building this airplan= e than just reading instructions and joining part "A" to part "B". I bough= t the Campbell Hausfeld 4.5 compressor with a 26 gallon tank. It is as qui= et as they come. = Also, get George Orndorrf's video's on building the RV's. Good stuff and= stimulating and satisfying when you can't be building your own for whatev= er reason. = Hope this helps, Alan Brown Soon 2 B RV-8 builder ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 1997
From: Alan Brown <103612.2516(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Primers
Hello fellow RV8ors, Just spent a weekend at Avery's with Bob, Judy and family and Martin Sutter, and a visit with George and Becky Orndorrf while attending the builders class. What a worthwhile $300 (wife and myself) ! ! ! ! Anyway, witnessed a resultant primed part primed with the PPG DX 1791 sel= f etching primer. Gold finish, looks like anodized. That's what I'm going= to use. Probably just as expensive as the Morehyde, but looks real good.= = Martin said a gallon should do the entire enterior of the plane (RV8). S= o I figure 2 gallons for me. Plus, you can still see any pen marks you've made on the aluminum through the primer, if you so desire. Not annodized= , but looks just as good. Alan Brown Walton, KY (outside of Cincinnati) Still trying to sell motorcycle and woodworking equipment so I can order emp. (5hp Woodmaster planer / moulder & lots of cutters & dust collector and miter saw ) (Honda Shadow 750) Soon 2 B RV 8or ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough)
Date: Sep 30, 1997
Subject: Re: Left hand throttle quadrant
I have a dual throttle system as per the Airbeetle. It has a left hand quadrant and a centre push/pull throttle only. I have no drawings but it kinda works like this. Both cables go through the firewall and arrive just short of the throttle arm, where they are both secured using the large nut on the outer sheath to a fixed point in space (throttle bracket) They then go to a small aluminium block about 1inch by 5/8 inch by 3/16 thick. This block has two holes in it. Both inner cables go into the block. One is secured in the block with nuts on either side, the other is secured with a nut on one side and a clevis rod end on the other. This clevis end now goes to the throttle arm. If you now pull one cable, the joint at the block transfers the pull to the other and vice versa, so they both now work in synch. It took a bit of fiddling to get the lengths correct and you obviously can't use a vernier centre throttle. It works just fine though and for the rare occassions where I have someone in the left who wants to fly, there is a throttle for them to use. I of course use the left mounted quadrant. My quadrant has throttle and mixture. If I had a constant speed, it would probably have throttle and prop. I think it may be too wide if I had all three. Ken RV6A Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV-wannabe - Indianapolis
Date: Sep 30, 1997
From: Kate and/or Jack <jgh(at)iavbbs.com>
Can anyone in the Indianapolis area help this guy out? Apparently he found the web page of Van's Michigan Wing. <http://iavbbs.com/jgh/rvmi.htm> ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- Date: 09/30 1:02 AM From: richmer(at)mail.theonramp.net Kate, I live in Indianapolis and am trying to decide if I want to build an RV-6 or RV-8 but my ignorance abounds. Can I get in contact with some one to answer basic questions and at least get to sit in one of these planes. Thanks, Rich Mercurio ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 1997
From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Tank baffle rivets
> Hi Gang, > Just wanted to ask before I jumped. Van says to countersink the row of > rivets that attach the rear of the tank skin to the baffle (last bit o' > riveting in the tank sealing operation). Is there any reason I should not > dimple them? I much prefer the holding power of dimpled skins but I sure > don't want to screw it up now. Thanks in advance. > > Eric Henson > Dana Point, CA > ehenson(at)cldwell.attmail.com Eric, Countersink the rear baffle and dimple the skins. The rear baffle is to thick to dimple. Ed Cole RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CHRIS.BROWNE(at)bge.com
Date: Sep 30, 1997
Subject: Franklin Engine - TBO, Reliability, and Prop Flanges
For those still interested, I spoke with Pat Goodman at Atlas about these issues. The prop flange is the same one used on the Continental O-300 and O-470, so there are props available. The Franklins had a 2000 hr. TBO before they moved overseas, and there are some engines manufactured in Poland with 2000 hrs or more. TBOs are automatically reduced whenever there is a significant manufacturing change such as this. There has never been an AD issued against Franklin! I will try and visit Atlas soon, maybe this weekend. And BWT, the November issue of Kitplane has a short article on Franklin, but the price in the artice is wrong. The complete engine with carb, etc., is about $16,000, not $12,744 as implied in the article. Chris Browne Buying Tools for a QB6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BrownTool(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 30, 1997
Subject: Re: Tools
There are several excellent tool vendors out there, I happen to think Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co. is the best, (I own the company). I am a licensed aircraft technician and am pleased to offer free advice on building techniques. Free catalog is available @ 1-800-587-3883 or BrownTool(at)aol.com . It would be a privilege to earn your business. Michael Brown About to order RV-8 !!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 1997
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Left hand throttle quadrant
> Some of us are left handed, I hope to set mine 6A up to pilot from the > right seat, with left hand controls...that is the best part of building > your own aircraft, we can make it what we want, not what the factory thinks > we want. True, but... Left or right handed, it only takes a few minutes to get used to a different configuration. I used to regularly switch between a Citabria (right stick, left throttle), a Cessna (left yoke, right throttle), and an RV-6 (left stick, right throttle). After the initial check-out, each plane feels right for what it is, it's never seemed to me that any one configuration felt unnatural. I'm not criticizing your idea, just offering some food for thought, especially considering that it will likely be a fair amount more work to set up dual quadrants, or even left controls. Deviations from the kit always seem to be at least 3 times as expensive and time consuming as you think it will be (the voice of experience!) Randall Henderson, RV-6 randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 1997
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Tank baffle rivets
>> Is there any reason I should not > > dimple them? I much prefer the holding power of dimpled skins but I sure > > don't want to screw it up now. Thanks in advance. > > Eric, > Countersink the rear baffle and dimple the skins. The rear baffle is to > thick to dimple. Dimpling worked for me. Actually I c-sunk the skin (per the plans) on the first tank, but was not too happy with the quality of the work (bunch of slightly high rivets), and saw no real reason not to dimple, beyond the fact that the dimples in the baffle end up too close to the spar doubler if you're not careful. I was careful, and managed to dimple the second tank and baffle, and was much happier with it than the first one. Randall Henderson, RV-6 randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 1997
From: "Doug Miner" <dougm(at)pogo.WV.TEK.COM>
Subject: Re: prototype rv-3 photos wa
rv-list(at)matronics.com RE>prototype rv-3 photos wanted 9/30/97 11:40 AM I have a scanner.. if someone would like something scanned... Doug Miner dougm(at)pogo.wv.tek.com -------------------------------------- Date: 9/29/97 12:12 PM From: Randall Henderson I can't believe I spent the whole week at Oshkosh and didn't get any photos of the prototype RV-3 N17RV sitting there at the entrance to the RV parking area. I need one to cap off the article on the restoration project on the Home Wing Home Page. If anyone has photos and access to a scanner, could you scan 1 or 2 and email them to me (PRIVATELY)? I'd sure appreciate it. Or if you are in the VAF Home Wing group, maybe just bring it to the meeting? Thanks in advance. Randall Henderson randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA621 Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:55:36 -0700 From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) Subject: prototype rv-3 photos wanted Please direct any reply to: Douglas W. Miner Tektronix CPID Application Engineer 26600 SW Parkway Wilsonville OR, 97070 Do, Or Do Not. There Is No Try. -Yoda ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough)
Date: Sep 30, 1997
Subject: Servo gasket
I had a discussion recently with an AME about the problem I've been having with a heat soaked engine. He asked me if I had a thick gasket between my sump and the fuel injector servo, stating that this prevents some heat from getting to the servo and causing vapour. He said that after installing this on an aircraft in the hot south, the problems went away. Does anyone know anything about this? Ken RV6A Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 1997
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Re: First Flight N506RV
>In regards to fuel pressure, at the RV Fly In last weekend, someone said >their breather tube became obstructed by an insect, and they noticed the >tank was "caving in". While flying they could see the leading edge was >distorting. >>John I carry a length of aluminum tubing with a short length of vinyl tubing on it in my airplane to check that the fuel vents are unobstructed. I J-B welded some screen over the fuel vent ports on the bottom of the fuselage to keep the bugs out. Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 1997
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Re: Tank baffle rivets
>>> Is there any reason I should not >> > dimple them? I much prefer the holding power of dimpled skins but I sure >> > don't want to screw it up now. Thanks in advance. >> >> Eric, >> Countersink the rear baffle and dimple the skins. The rear baffle is to >> thick to dimple. > >Dimpling worked for me. Actually I c-sunk the skin (per the plans) on >the first tank, but was not too happy with the quality of the work >(bunch of slightly high rivets), and saw no real reason not to dimple, >beyond the fact that the dimples in the baffle end up too close to the >spar doubler if you're not careful. I was careful, and managed to >dimple the second tank and baffle, and was much happier with it than the >first one. I'd vote for folowing the plans. You could dimple the baffle as it is .032". However, I can't believe that dimpling every 3/4" won't result in some waviness and if this happens, you'd better have plenty of proseal to fill this dips and valleys as the skin and baffle won't make uniform contact as it would if the plans were followed. Of course, your line of holes could end up too close to the web of the baffle which might make dimpling, even with cut down dies, close to impossible. If the row of dimples is too far aft, you'll get interference with the spar doubler, as Randall pointed out. You could machine counter sink the baffle and dimple the skin and if I were to deviate from the plans, this is the method that I would prefer. The only drawback to this method would be sliding the baffle past gillions of dimples in the skin. You would probably have to bend the skins away from the ribs to ease the baffle in possibly stretching the proseal that's slued your skin to the ribs. If your tank leaks and you followed the plans---well, what else could you do? But if you deviate from the plans and your tanks leak and you call Van's, what would they say, "Why didn't you follow the plans?" Guess it doesn't make too much difference. You'd still have leaky tanks. Bob Skinner RV-6 bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Marhyde Primer
From: tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com (John T. Craig-Stearman)
Date: Sep 30, 1997
Not any more, unfortunately. I tried to order some Marhyde and some zinc chromate from Avery a couple of weeks ago, and he said he no longer carries primer. Rats. Regards, Tom Craig-Stearman tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com RV-4 doing wing intersection fairings writes: > >Bob Avery has it > >Gary Corde >RV-6 N211GC - NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com>
Subject: Marhyde Primer
Date: Sep 30, 1997
> Craig-Stearman) > > Not any more, unfortunately. I tried to order some Marhyde and some > zinc > chromate from Avery a couple of weeks ago, and he said he no longer > carries primer > Many auto paint stores carry zinc oxide primer, which is the more environmentally safe version of zince chromate. I bought a few spray cans from a local auto paint store, I could get the brand off a can at home if anybody is interested. Funky yellow/green color. Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA N727MF (reserved) RV-6AQME starting the sliding canopy...oh help... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 1997
From: John Bright <john(at)catlover.com>
Subject: Re: Tools (compressor)
> I am looking for a quiet compressor. Do not get a direct drive oil-less compressor if you want it to be quiet, go for belt drive with oil. John Bright, Newport News, VA, john(at)catlover.com, RV-6/6A empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 1997
From: Scott <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net>
Subject: Need advice about putting a bicycle in an RV6A.
I managed to put a 28 pound Dahon foldup bike in the back of my RV6A. However, it does not appear 2 will fit ( guess the wife gets the bike and I walk). However, I remember seeing a very small foldup tandem but am unable to locate the source. By chance does anybody know of a source ? Has anybody gotten 2 bikes or a small tandem in and stayed within the c.g. limits ? It would be neat if VAN had an option for a one foot extension so that the RV6 could carry a little more gear like a tent, and a couple of bicycles. Scott Johnson Chicago rvgasj(at)mcs.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 1997
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: E-mail address
Would someone E-mail me (off list) Bill Benidict's E-mail address? I had it until the "computer guy" fixed my computer up for me. Thanks, Bob Skinner bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 1997
From: rscott(at)wnstar.com (Richard Scott)
Subject: Re: Franklin Engine
I beg to differ on the statement ,"The Stinson 108 that originally came with Franklins have mostly all been converted to Lycomings". The fact is that very few have been converted to Lycomings and Stinson owners are very fond of the smooth operation they get from the Franklins. Within the Stinson Club, there is a lot of interest in going with the PZL Franklin 220. This is probably because the 220 conversion appears to be an easier and more economical conversion for a Stinson than going to a Lycoming. But if you are starting out with a plane designed around a Lycoming, as are the RV's this consideration would not apply. As far as the 1500 hr. life of the Franklin is concerned, this appears to be a holdover from when the engine was first certified in the US and as I recall, Atlas is looking to get it boosted to 2,000. Parts and service for Lycomings will continue to be easier to get until Atlas gets a large number in service, then it will improve for the PZL's, but this will take some time. Dick Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 1997
From: Terry Lutz <70634.643(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: How to receive rv-list efficiently
Hi, Can you help me out a bit here. I get quite a bit out of the rv-list, but have some problems using it. Just unsubscribed so I can figure a few things out. I use compuserve for email, and for each message, I get the whole address header, often nearly a full page. Is there any way to display the messages without the header, and is there any way to attach them together so I can scroll through, one to the next easily, then grab the ones I want ? Thanks, I am just a simple computer person, need for work, but no time to become expert on it. Terry Lutz ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 30, 1997
Subject: Gone to Maui
I am off to Maui for a second honeymoon. I'll be back on October 9th. If you have any correspondence to me about my newsletter, please wait unitl I get back. Thanks. Jim Cone, Editor Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing Newsletter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: Nay nozzles
Date: Sep 30, 1997
Listers, Where can I get Nay nozzles installed? I'm rebuilding the O320 I plan to put in my -6A shortly and thought I'd like to do the nozzles when I get the case components polished up, checked for cracks, etc. Of course, I'd like to have the same shop do all of the above work. I looked in the archives and found plenty of references to paint nozzles. Only a couple to the Nay nozzles. No address or phone number. Jim Sears RV-6A #22220 (working inside the fuselage) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 1997
From: emcole <emcole(at)concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Gone to Maui
aol.com!JamesCone(at)matronics.com wrote: > > > I am off to Maui for a second honeymoon. I'll be back on October 9th. If > you have any correspondence to me about my newsletter, please wait unitl I > get back. Thanks. > > Jim Cone, Editor > Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing Newsletter > Was this expense factored in to building your RV?????? What price happiness? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 1997
From: emcole <emcole(at)concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Nay nozzles
Jim Sears wrote: > > > Listers, > > Where can I get Nay nozzles installed? I'm rebuilding the O320 I plan > to put in my -6A shortly and thought I'd like to do the nozzles when I get > the case components polished up, checked for cracks, etc. Of > course, I'd like to have the same shop do all of the above work. I > looked in the archives and found plenty of references to paint nozzles. > Only a couple to the Nay nozzles. No address or phone number. > > Jim Sears > RV-6A #22220 (working inside the fuselage) > > Check an issue of Trade-a-Plane. By the way, I noticed in the latest issue of Kitplanes that they now have a web site. Ed Cole ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 1997
From: Wes Hays <whays(at)tenet.edu>
Subject: Re: Tank baffle rivets
On Tue, 30 Sep 1997, Chris Brooks wrote: > > Eric, > I dimpled mine with no problem, Eric, FWIW, I also dimpled the back row and countersunk the front row. The tanks slide on and off fine. I thought however, that that is what the plans called for if I remember correctly. Wes Hays ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 1997
From: Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com>
Subject: Re: Nay nozzles
<199709301945.NAA01457(at)home2.trib.com> > >Jim Sears wrote: >> Where can I get Nay nozzles installed? Chuck Ney Enterprises, Inc. Tulsa, OK 918-836-5323 or www.chuckneyent.com/nozzle.htm Regards Tom Velvick Phoenix, AZ USA RV-6 fluting wing ribs ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 1997
From: lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott)
Subject: First Flight Today
Here's a long one. Got home from work 7 a.m.. Went to sleep. DAR called 10:30 a.m.. Not knowing what he wanted, I didn't answer phone, knowing I would do my first flight before I returned his call, just in case. Back to sleep till noon. Went to airport 2 p.m.. Waited for family and friends to show up. Took off. No airspeed indicated, but I knew I was probably moving cuz I was in the air. Got the feel of it for a few minutes, came back and greased in a long wheel landing. Found a split in airspeed tubing, cut it off and jammed it back on. Blew in it a little, reading now. Took off again. Went to 4000 feet. Did several stalls, power on and off. Oh, this is an 0320-e2d 150 hp. Felix prop 68x72. Straight and level at 1000 feet, true 152 mph at 2500 rpm. Full throttle climb at 100 indicated was 1200 fpm. At 70 mph it would hold 2000 fpm for a pretty good while, I wasn't paying real close attention at this time because the oil temp was getting closer to 225 than it should have. I will have to check the pitot system in the morning for more leaks. Also curious about the high oil temps. Did steep turns and stalls for a while. Right brake lost pressure. Just rolled so straight on landing I didn't need em. (light breeze at most). Pulled cowling off. Throttle lacks a 1/8 inch from making full open throttle. I don't know how this equates to power, probably not much. No oil drips, this is very important to me, since all my other planes have been belly lubers. I dove to 180 mph a couple times, the elevator got much stiffer. Makes me wonder if the airspeed is reading too low at higher speeds. Find out tomorrow when a chase plane will be there. I was disappointed in the speed for the given power setting. The plane handled beautifully. Straight and level, hands off. I liked the manual trim. I think I will leave off the electric trim on my other one. The only problem I had was slowing it down for landing. Coming across the numbers at 80 is way too fast. I used half the runway (4000 ft) rolling to a stop with light brake usage. Roll rate was crisp and elevator pressures were light until the speed got up around 165 or so (downhill). I enjoyed it a bunch. I got home and called the DAR. No problem, just some non coinciding dates on the paperwork we typed up. RELIEF. Any suggestions on the oil temps or anything else, I'm all ears. The oil cooler is on the left rear of the engine baffling. Thanks alot. See you later. It has been a good day. WHEW! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvator97(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 30, 1997
Subject: Re: First Flight N506RV
Hey Jerry, nice to hear from you again. I just got on the list recently, we used to talk on cserve years ago. We also met at a Bakersfield BBQ a few years ago, and at Arlington 95. Do you still fly with the Garfield doll in the canopy? I hope to be flying by the end of this year! (After 5.5 years!) Hope to see you at the fly-ins next summer. Walt Hastings N79WH RV-6A Santa Clarita, Calif. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 1997
From: Mike Denman <mikedenman(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Shunts
Internal or external shunts? My understanding (somewhat limited) is that an internal shunt in an amp meter requires a large gage wire to be run to the instrument ie. something on the order of 8 awg for a 50 amp alternator. The advantage(?) of an external shunt is that it keeps the large gage wire and high amperage off the instrument panel. Is this correct so far? What experience do the users of the web have to relate on this subject. I would be interested in knowing where they are mounting external shunts and what gage wire runs from an external shunt to the amp instrument in a typical installation. Other comments or answers to questions that I am too dumb to even ask would also be appreciated. Mike Denman "Lets see, a river has current and a river flows down hill , therefore a battery turned on its side..." ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvator97(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 01, 1997
Subject: Re: First Flight N506RV
Congratualtions Scott! Your note really struck a chord with me. First flight has been on my mind alot lately. My RV-6A SHOULD be ready to go by the end of the year. I have a session scheduled with Mike Seeger next month to get checked out in the 6A. Can' wait! Anyway. can't imagine what that first one is going to feel like, (after 5+ years). BTW - Was your engine a fresh rebuild or new? Am curious as to the proper break-in procedures. (mine is a zero time rebuilt 0-320, 160 hp) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 1997
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: First Flight Today
Michael Wow it is great to hear about all of these first flights. CONGRATULATIONS I am not familiar with a Felix prop but that sound like a lot of pitch for a E2D. What is static rpm? And at full RPM in the air? You said 152 mph TAS, which is slow for 1000 ft and 2500 rpm, are you sure you weren't looking at IAS? Do you have all of your wheel and gear farings installed? (10-14 mph) If your engine is new or new rebuild 225 oil temp is not out of line and will start coming down as you put on more time, and should stabilize at 10-20 hrs. Again congratulations and fly safe. Jerry -- Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 1997
From: cfggg <ddebt(at)pathcom.com>
Subject: Re: Servo gasket
You might try rigging a blast tube to the top of the injector to test out this theory. Considering the balmy conditions forecast for Ottawa this winter, shouldn't you be thinking about a thinner gasket? :) David Fried > >I had a discussion recently with an AME about the problem I've been having with a heat soaked >engine. He asked me if I had a thick gasket between my sump and the fuel injector servo, stating >that this prevents some heat from getting to the servo and causing vapour. He said that after >installing this on an aircraft in the hot south, the problems went away. >Ken > >RV6A Flying > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: Re: Nay nozzles
Date: Oct 01, 1997
Thanks to those who responded to the question. I've gone to their web site and have the phone number. Maybe if I had spelled Nay nozzles as Ney nozzles, I might have found them easier in the archives! Jim Sears RV-6A #22220 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FMark40(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 01, 1997
Subject: Elevator Trim
Listers, I'm finishing up my RV4 Horizontal Stabilizer this weekend. I have the electric trim kit but am wondering if I should go with manual trim instead due to some comments I saw in the archives about the response being too fast on the electric trim. I know there is a governor available from Matronics and MAC also lists a speed controller, but someone at the NE RV Builders Forum told me the servos had been fixed so you don't need a governor anymore. This one is a MAC 8A. I would appreciate any comments on the electric vs. manual trim issue, since I will have to make a decision in a couple of weeks. And by the way, I had my second ride in an RV4 on Saturday. Inspiring. Mark McGee of the drill that helped me to keep the drill vertical and/or level with the surface I was drilling. The model is DW100 and I believe I paid around $60 at Home Depot. This should get you started. Have fun and good luck. Fran Malczynski Olcott, NY Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 1997
From: Fran Malczynski <fmalczy(at)ibm.net>
Subject: Northeast RV Forum
Great, great forum. For $35 we got to attend some great presentations, learn a whole lot, eat three meals, see the workmanship and flying qualities of at least 20 RV's and talk a lot about building RV's. What


September 21, 1997 - October 01, 1997

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