RV-Archive.digest.vol-dm
October 09, 1997 - October 20, 1997
PART ONE OF RUDDER TRIM DESIGN - 7-95
TOP TEN TOTALLY TUBULAR TIPS - 10-95
DEFOG OR NOT DEFOG; THAT IS THE QUESTION - WINDSHIELD DEFOG SYSTEM DESIGN -
10/95
A LIGHT ALTERNATIVE -.LANDING LIGHT - 10-95
MORE CANOPY INSTALLATION INFORMATION - 10-95
POP-AHOLICS ANONYMOUS - 10/95
TRUE GRIT (THE ZEN OF SANDING) - 1/96
FITTING FAIRINGS FOR FLYING FEET - LANDING GEAR, THAT IS - 1/96
MIRROR MIRROR ON THE WALL, WHO'S THE FAIREST OF THEM ALL? - FAIRING
CONSTRUCTION - 1/96
WING TIP TIPS - 1/96
A POT POURRI OF BUILDERS TIPS - BY AREA - 4/96
A FOUL COWL - FITTING THE COWL - 4/96
HELLO DOLLY! -MOVING YOUR PLANE ABOUT - 4/96
WHAT ABOUT THAT INSTRUMENT PANEL? - 4/96
COOL HEADS AND HOT HEADS - COWL FLAP DESIGN - 7-96
BAFFLING BAFFLES - BAFFLE INSTALLATION - 7/96
IT'S A DRAG, AND THAT AIN'T GOOD - DRAG REDUCTION - 7/96
A PROP TO DIE FOR - 7/97
FABULOUS FAB - FILTERED AIR BOX INSTALLATION - 7/96
CANOPY, OH MY CANOPY, PART DEUX - ONE MAN CANOPY INSTALLATION - 10/96
A RUDDER TRIM FOR ALL SPEEDS - MORE ON RUDDER TRIM SYSTEM - 10/96
THE IMPORTANCE OF TOOLS - 1/97
FUEL FOR THOUGHT - FUEL SYSTEM ARTICLE - 1/97
TAPE TECHNIQUES - MASKING FOR PAINTING - 1/97
EVEN MORE CANOPY TIPS - 1/97
HERE TO HELP - HOW TO DEAL WITH YOUR FRIENDLY FAA - 1/97
FINISHING FOIBLES - LESSONS LEARNED - 4/97
TO DO, OR NOT TO DO; THAT IS THE QUESTION - WHAT WORKED AND WHAT DIDN'T AND
WHAT I WOULD DO DIFFERENTLY NEXT TIME - 4/97
A BOX FOR STUFF AND A DARNED GOOD STEP - CONSOLE DESIGN - 4/97
A COLOR PICTURE OF MY PLANE - 4/97
THE FUEL LEAK BLUES - FUEL SYSTEM ARTICLE - 7/97
HOT STUFF AND MORE HOT STUFF - ENGINE COOLING - 7/97
ANOTHER BAFFLED BUILDER - ENGINE COOLING - 7/97
YOU CAN LEARN A LOT FROM A RUNWAY - LANDING TECHNIQUES - 7/97
WIFELY REFLECTIONS - MUST READING FOR SIGNIFICANT OTHERS - 7/97
A SWITCH IS A SWITCH... OR IS IT? - AC VS DC 10/97
IFR FLIGHT IN AN RV - 10/97
AN EVEN BETTER CENTER CONSOLE - 10/97
THE DOCTOR IS "IN" - AVOIDING THE ACHES AND PAINS OF BUILDING - 10/97
Thanks for your interest in my newsletter. I hope that you think that it is
worth your subscription.
Jim Cone, Editor
422 Savannah Ridge Drive
St. Charles, MO 63303
(314) 928-8703
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Slider installation sequence |
There was a whole series of articles, with lots of pictures about how to
install the slider canopy in my newsletter, Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing.
I figured out a way to install the entire canopy by just one person. I have
all three years of the back issues available for $5.00 per year. They have
all sorts of articles that cover building a RV from the beginning. If you
are interested send my your address and the back issues can cross your check
in the snail mail. Money back if not satisfied. Over 500 subscribers and so
far, no returns.
Jim Cone, Editor
Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing Newsletter
422 Savannah Ridge Drive
St. Charles, MO 63303
(314) 928-8703, FAX (314) 447-8803
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Derek Reed <dreed(at)cdsnet.net> |
Joseph Matza wrote:
>
> just ordered an 8 epp kit (not yet received). looking for tips on
> building the jigs.
> thanks,
> joe
>
> +-
>
Read your message and FYI......One of our local RV8 builders has made an
all Alum. jig that is for rent. It disassembles for shipping in a crate
by truck. For info contact Farn Reed @ 541-471-6289 Grants Pass. Oregon
. He also makes all Alum. extended range tip tanks for RV6 & RV8 planes.
[I don't get commission!!]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Making my day . . . |
> ////
> (o o)
> ===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
> | |
> | Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
> | Show me where I'm wrong. |
> ================================= >>
>
>OK. Your drawing could use a little work.
>
That's interesting . . . don't know where that came from.
I did get another response on our sig file pointing out
that my slashes were laying the wrong way. I've been
using that same file for about a year and this is the
first time anyone noticed it. Dee also noted today
that it doesn't work as a http tag without the < >
enclosures. Thanks for the heads up folks, we've fixed
it!
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========oOOo=(_)=oOOo==========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Derek Reed <dreed(at)cdsnet.net> |
Joseph Matza wrote:
>
> just ordered an 8 epp kit (not yet received). looking for tips on
> building the jigs.
> thanks,
> joe
>
> +-
>
Sorry , forgot to mention the jig for rent is a fuselage jig,guess you
won't be needing that for a couple of months!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)MCI2000.com> |
| Subject: | Instrument panel 6A |
Can anyone tell me if there are differences in the curved upper outline of
the instrument panel between the 6A slider and tip up? My instrument panel
(slider) did not come with the outline marked, and I'm wondering if I can
use the x-y dimensions for the tip up version, dwg 35. The rectangular
slots on the left and right are marked, but not the curved portion.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ready to saddle up . . . |
>
>One suggestion for the postings relating to your web site -- if the three
>samples you included in this posting are an example of your plan, they are a
>bit cryptic for me although I can figure out what they might be about. If
>you could add a short paragraph, or sentence, better describing the nature of
>the content of posting, it might give a better idea as to whether it is
>worthwhile visiting or not.
Excellent point! Here's an annotated repost . . .
>
> <http://www.aeroelectric.com/fusvsbkr.html>
>
An annotated "wing and a prayer" story . . . "It
was a dark and stormy night and all of a sudden,
the main breaker blew leaving me in the dark."
I wish it were really humerous and in this case the
story does have a happy ending . . . BUT . . . it should
not have happened in the first place.
>
> <http://www.aeroelectric.com/gnd_powr.html>
>
Illustrated instructions on modifying the "Piper style"
ground power jack sold by Aircraft Spruce for use on your
airplane. Schematics and step by step instructions.
>
> <http://www.aeroelectric.com/SwitchRatings/swtchrat.html>
>
"The switch says '7A @ 125 VAC', can I use it on my
airplane? Where do I buy DC rated switches?"
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========oOOo=(_)=oOOo==========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fixed or tail dragger |
| From: | gasobek(at)juno.com (Gary A. Sobek) |
Insurance from Avemco on my RV-6 is $789 U.S. per year. I have
$1,000,000 liability and $50,000 hull coverage excluding inflight.
(Takeoffs, landings, and flight coverage of the hull does not exist.)
Damage on the ground in motion and parked is covered with a $200
deductible. Hull coverage for in flight would up the cost to over
$1,600. I had 11.6 RV hours before I flew mine and 65 hours tailwheel.
Cost includes the EAA Chapter, Tech Counselor and Flight Advisor
discounts.
I could save $200 a year from National but I do fly other airplanes that
Avemco covers in one policy.
Gary A. Sobek
N157GS RV-6 O-320 C.S.
So. California, USA
writes:
>
>>
>> you flying, how much more expensive is the tail dragger insurance if
you don't
>> have any taildragger time.
>
>Being a cautious type and having no taildragger time, before I decided
on
>the -6 I tried to find *any* excuse to choose the 6A instead.
>
>Insurance being a possibility, a call to Avemco revealed there was a
>$105/year difference (190tt, full hull coverage, with a td checkout
>and 10hrs in type before first flight).
>
>Based on this, I find it curious why I see so many posts claiming that
-6
>insurance is "much more expensive" than the 6A. An $8.75 per month
>difference really does not even figure in the overall cost of
>owning/operating an aircraft.
>
>Rob Acker (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
| From: | gasobek(at)juno.com (Gary A. Sobek) |
Hal:
I have fuses in my RV-6. They were intentionally installed so as not to
be in flight serviceable. I used fuses because my employer never uses
circuit breakers on our flight vehicles. Not one of the SPACECRAFT
programs that I have worked on had circuit breakers. All of the flight
fuses are not in flight serviceable. If there were circuit breakers to
reset, I do not know how we could get someone to an altitude of 22,300
miles to reset it and then return them safely.
The typical spacecraft is made to quality standards that are 100 times
greater than aircraft. If you read AC 43.13, (I think it was AC 43.13)
the purpose of the fuse / circuit breaker is to protect the wiring. If
there is a problem, most likely it will not be resetable. How may times
has anyone had a circuit breaker open and then reset it never to trip
again? From the old time pilots that I have talked to, none had ever
successfully had reset a circuit breaker with out an immediate retrip.
The best reason to use circuit breakers would be to cut down on wiring.
Only 2 connections to go bad instead of 4 with a fuse and switch. I
chose fuses so as to have the protection as close to the battery as
possible. Circuit breakers would have required an unprotected wire to
run about 4 feet.
Gary A. Sobek
Electrical AeroSPACE Systems Engineer
N157GS RV-6 O-320 C.S.
FAA A & P
EAA Tech Counselor
Kempthorne) writes:
>
>Bob,
>
>Your web page on the use of fuses in place of brreakers is right, I
think. Maybe.
>
>With your wide experience you tell to use fuses but we amateurs, with
the wisdom
>gained from looking at existing panels say "yeah, Bob, but..." Here are
a few yabuts.
>
>"It isn't done this way, breakers are the standard way."
>
>"I can't risk the lives of my loved ones on something different."
>
>"It is harder to replace a fuse in flight than to reset a breaker."
>
>"We should not use anything that is used on automobiles until it is
proven on airplanes"
>
>"What if I later want to sell my airplane - who'd buy it with fuses?"
>
>"A few fuses aren't nearly as impressive as a panel full of
switches."=0D=
>
>
>I'm sure there are more.
>
>hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | RE: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
>Bob,
>
>Your web page on the use of fuses in place of breakers is right, I think.
Maybe.
>
>With your wide experience you tell to use fuses but we amateurs, with the
wisdom
>gained from looking at existing panels say "yeah, Bob, but..." Here are a
few
>yabuts.
>
>"It isn't done this way, breakers are the standard way."
>
Who's "standard" . . . where is is written? FAR21, 25, 43 all speak to
the use and maintenance of both fuses and breakers. How did breakers become
a "standard". They certainly became a custom as people found out how BAD
the little fuse holders are with the caps that drop on the floor and roll
all the way back to the baggage compartment. Breakers became a convenience.
No place in the FARs does it say that ANY fuses or breakers have to be
located in reach of the pilot. They DO say that fuses in reach of any
crew that powers "flight critical" circuits must be backed up with
50% spares. So tell me what systems on your proposed airplane are
"flight critical" meaning that failure of the device presents an
immediate hazard to flight?
>"I can't risk the lives of my loved ones on something different."
>
Explain the risk. Paint the scenario where reseting a breaker in flight
is going to bring some absolutely essential piece of equipment back on
line.
>"It is harder to replace a fuse in flight than to reset a breaker."
>
>
You betcha . . . that's why I don't bother to put them anywhere I might
even be tempted to fiddle with them in the air. Be a pilot in the air
and save being a mechanic until on the ground.
>"We should not use anything that is used on automobiles until it is proven
on
>airplanes"
You got it backwards. The stuff on current airplanes was certified in 1940-
1970 with precious few changes since then. Take a walk through the Service
Difficulty Reports on the net and see how often a "certified" piece of
equipment
fails. Of course it can be "overhauled" and yellow-tagged and put right
back
on an airplane . . . it's the same piece of 1960's technology that came off
in the first place . . . you have any confidence in that? On the other hand,
how often do you have problems with similar gizmos in your car? The
environment
under the hood of a modern automobile is just as punishing as under the cowl
of an airplane. There's temperature cycles, splash, sand, dust, ozone,
oil vapors . . . you name it. For myself, I've replaced one alternator
on one
of 7 cars owned over the past 12 years with a cumulative total of more than
4,000 hours operating time . . . As I write these words, B&C is doing a
booming business in STANDBY alternators out of his booth at the American
Bonanza Society show here in Wichita. He just told me on the phone about
how often people have alternator troubles in their airplanes. If I owned
a $40,000 automobile and had these kinds of troubles, I'd be all over the
dealer. Yet people fly around in $250,000 airplanes and put up with the most
rediculous problems because "fixing" the problem is too expensive . . . and
besides, the current system is "certified."
The majority of alternators, starters, fuel injection systems, ignition
systems on cars go to the junk yard still working after 100,000+ miles of
service. Airplane products and designs are "carved in stone" while
automobiles continue to evolve and become better and better values every
year. I'd put any modern automobile part on my airplane before I'd
opt for a part out of a salvaged C-172 . . . even the new ones right off
the assembly line.
>
>"What if I later want to sell my airplane - who'd buy it with fuses?"
>
Somebody who understands why you elected to use fuses instead of breakers
and why they're out of reach just like on your car. Check the threads
and articles out on our website for more info . . .
>
>"A few fuses aren't nearly as impressive as a panel full of switches."
>
Now there is an EXCELLENT reason for going to breakers. I had a client
a few years ago hire me to do a wirebook for his proposed BD-10J project.
It was a design goal to make this airplane "look as military as possible".
We ended up with 65+ breakers in the airplane for a total of $1300.00.
Personally, I'd rather use that money -AND- panel space for something
really useful like a second GPS receiver or perhaps a CD player.
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========oOOo=(_)=oOOo==========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
Has anyone on the list seen this? Better yet, has Van seen this?
Morane Renault Engines
Socata Aircraft, the light aircraft division of Aerospatiale Group, is one of
the world's leading light aircraft manufacturers. Socata has teamed up with
Renault-Sport to produce a new generation of jet-fueled piston engines.
Fitted with this new engine, Socata will introduce a new line of aircraft
that it feels will meet the needs of a new generation in aviation with
reliability and reduced operating costs. Renault-Sport created the engines,
which feature improved technical and economic performance. The simple design
involves fewer moving parts; easier access to all components; a 90 percent
commonality on parts throughout the range; computerized diagnostic output;
and a 3000-hour TBO.
Performance improvements include more nautical miles per gallon; better
weight to power ratio; higher useful load due to lower engine weight; a
better rate of climb and higher service ceiling; and longer endurance.
For more information, contact: Socata Aircraft, North Fern/ Airport 7501
Pembroke Rd., Pembroke Pines, FL 33023, (954) 964-6877.
Could this be the answer to the eventual disapearance of 100 LL Av Gas?
Hmmm!
Regards
Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fixed or tail dragger |
Allen and listers, when the comment below was made, I had to step
in and set things straight. The Grumman does handle that well. I'm
building a RV-6A because of the handling qualities of my AA5A
Grumman-American Cheetah. I, too, have the rudder authority and
use the brakes sparingly. IMHO, what got them was the glued on
skins and the problems students had with the AA1 trainers at first.
The rumors abounded and killed the airplane. My first airplane was a
Skyhawk when I wanted a Grumman. I listened to my friends and
made the wrong decision. Today, I'm in love with my Cheetah and
will really hate it when I sell it after the RV-6A's completion. In fact, I
may sell the -6A if I don't like it well enough to keep it.
Oh, yeah, I have folks standing in line to buy the Cheetah. The word
got out about how great they are and has driven the market way up.
'nuff said.
>I suspect that if a Grumman handled this well they would have been
far more popular!<
Jim Sears
RV-6A #22220 (building the cabin frame)
AA5A Cheetah N26276
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Back From Hawaii |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Jim,
Does this mean that you got out of one frying pan ind into another???
Congrates on the Honeymoon....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Working on 2'd RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>I'm back from my second honeymoon and was confronted with several
>hundred
>E-mails. I did not read all of them, so if you sent me an E-mail and
>did not
>get an answer by now, please resend it.
>
>BTW, Had a great time in Hawaii, including some awsome helicopter
>flying to
>get into the crater of an active volcano. It was scud running like I
>have
>never seen, but we made it to the top of the mountain and circled
>around in a
>very small open area. It was an experince of a lifetime.
>
>Jim Cone, Editor
>Van's Air Force, Tri-State Wing Newsletter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
<19971009.204841.4863.0.GASobek(at)juno.com>
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Gary,
I don't want to start another great debate over the fuse Vs Breaker
concept, but I have to take exception to your example.
First of all, it would appear from your statements that you're talking
about UNMANNED spacecraft. I to beleive that fuses in this type of
installation is the correct approach. But there are times when an
intermittent short that opens a critical circuits breaker might result in
the pilots safe return with the ability to reset that breaker. I agree
that service work should not be performed in the cockpit while flying,
but I would rather have the ability to reset a breaker IF I NEED TO, and
it doesn't interferr with the control of the aircraft. Just my opinion.
While I am not an old pilot (49 with 2500 Hrs in 14 Years of SPORT
flying) I have had a situation where a breaker has poped in flight. In
this case, a radio had an internal intermittent. Reseting the breaker
allowed me to at least get the runway lights on before the radio totally
failed. If it had been fused, the end situation could have been
different.
And, in my opinion, a Circuit Breaker Switch cuts down the wiring and
circuit complexity even further, and still allows the OPTION of reseting
the breaker while still providing the necessary wiring protection.
Just another opinion......
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Working on 2'd RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
Sobek) writes:
>
>Hal: I have fuses in my RV-6. They were intentionally installed so
>as not to be in flight serviceable. I used fuses because my employer
>never uses circuit breakers on our flight vehicles. Not one of the
>SPACECRAFT programs that I have worked on had circuit breakers. All of
>the flight fuses are not in flight serviceable. If there were circuit
>breakers to
>reset, I do not know how we could get someone to an altitude of 22,300
>miles to reset it and then return them safely. The typical spacecraft
>is made to quality standards that are 100 times greater than aircraft.
> If you read AC 43.13, (I think it was AC 43.13) the purpose of the
>fuse / circuit breaker is to protect the wiring. If there is a
>problem, most likely it will not be resetable. How may times has
>anyone had a circuit breaker open and then reset it never to trip
>again? From the old time pilots that I have talked to, none had ever
>successfully had reset a circuit breaker with out an immediate retrip.
> The best reason to use circuit breakers would be to cut down on
>wiring. Only 2 connections to go bad instead of 4 with a fuse and
>switch. I chose fuses so as to have the protection as close to the
>battery as
>possible. Circuit breakers would have required an unprotected wire to
>run about 4 feet.
>
>Gary A. Sobek
>Electrical AeroSPACE Systems Engineer
>N157GS RV-6 O-320 C.S.
>FAA A & P
>EAA Tech Counselor
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <r.acker(at)thegrid.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel 6A |
>
> Can anyone tell me if there are differences in the curved upper outline
of
> the instrument panel between the 6A slider and tip up? My instrument
panel
> (slider) did not come with the outline marked, and I'm wondering if I can
> use the x-y dimensions for the tip up version, dwg 35.
Alex,
My slider panel outline was marked, and is different from my plans as well.
I have x-y coordinates for it if you need them (I made a wood blank for
panel planning). When it time to actually cut my panel blank, I will use
the top skin curvature as the outline, not what's marked.
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Marhyde alternative |
Frankly I did not check on this because I only use it on bare alum.
Detailed info on this should be contained in their technical data sheet
(not the MSDS) which your local store probably has.
I rechecked the label and it contains no specific restrictions about
spraying OVER other finishes, but on the other hand it does say "Ideal
for BARE steel, aluminum and stainless steel."
Bob Reiff
les williams wrote:
>
>
> Attention Quickbuilders! Before you jump in and recoat anything with the 988
> G.B.P. Self Etching Primer mentioned, you might want to check with S-W to see
> if it is compatible with the primer already on your quickbuild. According to
> the product data sheet for Corrosion Shield Vinyl Etch Primer (which is what's
> on the QBs), you should not recoat with G.B.P. Etching Filler E2-G980 or
> E2-G983. I would guess that the spray can contents is a variant of one of
> these and not compatible. My local S-W store closed before I could get a call
> to them after seeing this. Will check with them tomorrow.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ammeter Question |
>Bob: Have seen several of your articles, and have never failed to learn
>quite a bit from each one. . . .
Thank you. I'm pleased to be helpful.
> . . . . . I have a T-6G, 28v system, generator with OLD
>voltage reg. The ammeter is a generator-load meter, showing only positive
>amps as the load increases, but not negative amps as the load increases on
>the battery. The scale of the meter is wrong, in my opinion. Rarely draw
>more than 30 amps, yet the meter goes to 150 amps. At normal draw of 5-10
>amps, the needle barely moves off of zero.
Obviously, a poor selection of instrumentation.
>I recently bought a combination voltmeter/ammeter.......the type that reads
>amps until you push and hold a button in order to read volts. Max scale
>is 30 amps. Both the installed meter and the new meter have an external
>shunt. The existing shunt will carry up to 150 amps, with "X" millivolts
>providing full-scale needle deflection. ( I forget what "X" is)
>The new volt/ammeter came with a shunt that is rated at only 30 amps, with
>the same "X" millivolts being full-scale (in this case 30 amps) deflection.
This is good stuff . . and why I'm forwarding this letter to some list
servers I subscribe to. A standard within the instrumentation world is
to design remote shunt ammeters such that 50 millivolts on the
instrument's
terminals will cause it to read full scale. That scale could be 1 amp or
1,000 amps . . . it matters not.
The remote shunt is simply a precision power resistor designed to drop
50 millivolts across its terminals as it passes design current levels.
Hence, take about any remote shunt style ammeter and it will read FULL
SCALE at whatever current the SHUNT is calibrated, irrespective of what
the instrument's scaleplate sez.
>My question is: How can I properly install an ammeter with a scale that
>will let me read the meter, say 0-30 or 0-50 amps? Do I have to change the
>Shunt?
Yes . . . install your new shunt in place of the old one, wire in the
new instrumenet across the shunt (use 5 amp in-line fuses in each
lead coming from the shunt . . . the fuses mount as close to the shunt
a practical).
>If so, does the rating of the shunt have to approximate the rating
>of the generator?
Sure. The original situation you cited illustrated how impractical it
was to monitor the output of a 30 amp machine with a 150 amp instrument.
For alternator load meters, I don't calibrate them in AMPS, just percent
of load. Then, I'll keep a selection of shunts around for the popular
alternator sizes. The pilot's real interest is in how much of the
alternator's
capacity is being taxed. Hence, a meter that reads in percentage of some
shunt value fills the bill. The the builder wants to but in a bigger
alternator
later, he just changes the shunt, the SAME instrument stays in place
on the
panel. Nifty huh????
>Does the shunt have to match the ammeter?
Yes . . . the SCALE PLATE has to have the same full scale reading as the
ampere rating on the shunt.
>Thank you in advance for any advice you might have. And if time doesn't
>permit you to answer these questions, I fully understand.
You're most welcome and than you for the question. We'll make time.
The institutionalized aviation community has held their "black art"
very close to the chest. While ordinary citizens are building their
own byte-thrashing computers from mail-order parts, citizens who own
airplanes are not expected to know or even want to know how they work.
It's time we stopped that and started sharing the knowledge. That's
what these list-servers and our business is all about.
>Peter C. Hunt
>
>"HUNTER"
>Capt. USN, ret. Ex Fighter Pilot, A&P, T-6 Owner/Operator.
>
>
>
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========oOOo=(_)=oOOo==========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel 6A |
<< Can anyone tell me if there are differences in the curved upper outline of
the instrument panel between the 6A slider and tip up? My instrument panel
(slider) did not come with the outline marked, and I'm wondering if I can
use the x-y dimensions for the tip up version, dwg 35. The rectangular
slots on the left and right are marked, but not the curved portion. >>
Don't do it. Once you have the subpanel (2) pieces in their proper position
and the firewall installed you take a long straight edge and let these two
curved surfaces guide your marking of the instrument panel curve for the
slider.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie & Tupper England <england(at)vicksburg.com> |
| Subject: | Slobovia Outernational Flyin |
Just a reminder for any RV'ers in the Midwest, South, or Southeast who
would like to come to our open house/airshow on Oct. 18. No admission
charge; this is your invitation; the field closes to arrivals around 1:00 pm.
Slobovia is 6 mi west of the JAN vor, 10 miles north of Jackson, MS.
I will be away from the computer between now & the flyin, so if you want
more info, call & leave a message & I'll be glad to call you back.
The Lebanon, TN flyin last week was great. We'd like to see that many RV's
a little further south.
Charlie England
601-638-7237
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ShelbyRV6A(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 10/10/97 7:15:26 AM, you wrote:
<>
There has been quite a bit of press including the latest Sport Aviation. SA
has a quick blurb on all of the Diesels shown at Oshkosh(some have been shown
for 10 years). The Teledyne Continental seems to have some promise in that
they have a large grant from NASA to develop the engine. Some of the
advantages, lower part count, two stroke diesel, no spark plugs/ignition
system.
I hate to be cynical, but what do ya bet they are still over $20K. I believe
until the Japanese come in and shake up the market we won't see real quality
and innovative imporvements from Lyc/Cont.
Shelby in Nashville,
RV6a - 200HP
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
>I have had a situation where a breaker has poped in flight. In
>this case, a radio had an internal intermittent. Reseting the breaker
>allowed me to at least get the runway lights on before the radio totally
>failed. If it had been fused, the end situation could have been
>different.
Fred,
Let me put on my Bob Nuckolls student hat for a second. The end
situation could NOT
have been different because if a single radio is necessary for the safety
of flight, then you would have a handheld for backup.
If nothing else, the breaker/fuse debate does force us to evaluate the
relative importance of all the electrical gizmos.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Yahoo!! Fuselage jig available |
Listers:
Yahoo!!
I finished riveting on the two skins below the seats/
baggage area on my fuselage and, with the help of my
family, rolled the fuse upright and moved it onto a
stand I built.
So now I'm in the boat stage and can start installing
things INTO the fuselage rather than building the
fuselage.
The result is that I now have a fuse jig available.
It's free to anyone who can come and get it. I'm
located about 30 miles north of Seattle. My plane
was the 4th built on this jig. If I don't get any
takers, I'll disassemble it and find some other use
for the wood.
My email is dougm@physio-control.com.
My phone #'s: (w) 425-867-4669; (h) 425-353-1823.
Doug Medema
RV-6A, fuse just off jig.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
>
>Hal:
>
>I have fuses in my RV-6. They were intentionally installed so as not to
>be in flight serviceable. I used fuses because my employer never uses
>circuit breakers on our flight vehicles. Not one of the SPACECRAFT
>programs that I have worked on had circuit breakers. All of the flight
>fuses are not in flight serviceable. If there were circuit breakers to
>reset, I do not know how we could get someone to an altitude of 22,300
>miles to reset it and then return them safely.
When receiving training as a Flight Engineer we were warned to wear
a heavy set of gloves when resetting breakers, "cause they get hot and hurt"
( said with tongue in cheek). My instructor warned me, " breakers and fuses
are for pulling only to isolate a system, never for resetting if they
popped...period." I am aware of several case where that warning was not
taken as fact and big trouble followed.
Have a good day!
Denny Harjehausen
RV-6 Fuselage
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ammeter Question |
om>
>
>
>[Epplin John A]
>
>
>One question I have: What is the generator capacity? I suspect the T-6
>has at least a 100 amp generator. The ammeter shunt should be capable
>of more than the continuos capacity of the generator. D.C. generators
>are usually capable of at least 200% rated load for a short time.
Not if their regulators are working . . . there are three "relays"
in a generator's regulator: reverse current cutout, voltage regulation,
and current regulation. Failure of the current regulation "relay"
puts generator at risk for much smoking.
> There
>is no current regulator installed with most high capacity DC generators.
>Alternators generally are self limiting in current. They usually will
>not produce much more than there rated output.
Can you tell me of a system that's not current regulated. I'm trying
to recall if there was a current reguation feature in the old carbon
pile regulated systems . . I don't think their was. Modern starter
generators are limited via electronics that watches the drop across
a series compensation widing . . . a sort of quasi ammeter shunt.
>
>I realize this is a problem with instrumentation. You want to be able
>to determine if the gen is working, hard to do if you only have a 10 amp
>load and a 150 amp meter. The answer lies in the voltmeter. In my
>opinion the battery voltage is a better indication of the overall system
>condition than the ammeter. For my money, I would keep the existing
>ammeter and add a voltmeter. The ammeter could be a valuable asset in
>case of some malfunction such as a shorted cell, the amps would be high
>with normal voltage.
Well taken. I used to believe that the battery ammeter (-0+) indicator
was the most useful if one were to install a single instrument. 10 years
later with the evolution of essential busses and rerouting of the alternator
b-lead to the starter contactor, that type of ammeter is difficult to
implement. Besides, you still need a "battery gas gage" for alternator
out operations. Soooooo . . . an alternator load meter AND a voltmeter
are good things to have.
>I do like your idea of calibrating the instrument in percent load and
>installing the appropriate shunt. This is really what you are
>interested in anyway. The pilot should know what % to expect as normal
>for the conditions.
It also reduces the number of ammeters I have to inventory!
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========oOOo=(_)=oOOo==========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
<19971009.204841.4863.0.GASobek(at)juno.com>
> I don't want to start another great debate over the fuse Vs Breaker
>concept, but I have to take exception to your example.
>
> First of all, it would appear from your statements that you're talking
>about UNMANNED spacecraft. I to beleive that fuses in this type of
>installation is the correct approach. But there are times when an
>intermittent short that opens a critical circuits breaker might result in
>the pilots safe return with the ability to reset that breaker. I agree
>that service work should not be performed in the cockpit while flying,
>but I would rather have the ability to reset a breaker IF I NEED TO, and
>it doesn't interferr with the control of the aircraft. Just my opinion.
Let's try an ON-LINE FMEA (failure mode effects analysis). Over the
next 24 hours, I'd like for people to post their response to the following
questions:
(1) Name one item of electrical equipment critical to safe completion
of flight . . . or an item who's failure presents an immediate
hazard to completion of flight.
(2) List the ways in which this device or system might fail.
(3) How will each of these failures become obvious to the pilot.
Tomorrow, I'll carry the analysis of each response to the next step.
This is just the kind of process we do in the "big" airplane business;
it's a good exercise to know . . .
Regards,
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========oOOo=(_)=oOOo==========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MoeJoe" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
charset="us-ascii"
As of about 15min ago I have an ideal building area. 1,250 sq ft, lighted,
heated, and right across the street from work! Ordering tailkit as soon as
Van's opens. Can anyone access Hovan's RV page? I haven't been able to
access it for over a week, and I want to get his tool list. Can anyone send
it to me, or tell me where else I can find it?
Thanks
Moe Colontonio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Ruddock <markr(at)iwl.net> |
I have heard about this engine and am very interested in learning more. The
latest Sport Aviation has a section on diesels and the Renault is there with a
picture too.
Scheduled for certification in April 98(250 version) as per Sport Aviation.
(about the time for engine choice for my project).
Address for contact is SMA, 1 Avenue du President Kennedy - 91170 Viry-Chatillon,
France Phone 01 69 12 58 00 -- 01 49 34 69 82
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tmoradia(at)ix.netcom.com |
Does any one know where you can buy the "DeVilbiss JGA-503 HVLP spray.
Thanks
Tony Moradian
RV-8 empenage #80398
N100TM reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Building an airplane to get an A&P certificate |
charset="iso-8859-1"
Has anyone on the list used the experience gained building their RV to
obtain an A&P license? If so, I'd like a road map to making it happen.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
> I hate to be cynical, but what do ya bet they are still over $20K.
It'll be hard to beat Van's price on Lycomings, but they might be
able to beat Lycoming's regular price. And, if the numbers are
accurate, they'll be able to make a pretty convincing case even at
a higher initial price (I'm talking regular market here, not RV
builders).
> I believe
> until the Japanese come in and shake up the market we won't see real quality
> and innovative imporvements from Lyc/Cont.
The Japanese aren't magicians. Renault's move looks to be more likely
to "shake up" our part of the market than what Toyota has done.
> There has been quite a bit of press including the latest Sport Aviation.
I haven't received mine yet, but I can't wait. I'm pretty convinced
that non-avgas-burning engines are in our future--though I'm not sure
how soon! Anybody know what you'd have to do to the fuel system to
run Jet A or diesel?
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | eprth(at)kneehill.com (Tim Houle) |
| Subject: | Re: Fixed or tail dragger |
Hi all,
is there a big diff in resale pric
***************************
Tim Houle
email: eprth(at)kneehill.com
***************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | eprth(at)kneehill.com (Tim Houle) |
| Subject: | Re: Fixed or tail dragger |
Hi all,
is there a big diff in resale ability/price between the 6 and 6A
***************************
Tim Houle
email: eprth(at)kneehill.com
***************************
________________________________________________________________________________
Moe-
Give me a fax # and I'll send it over.
Mike
(RV 6A QB on the way!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terrance Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> (1) Name one item of electrical equipment critical to safe
completion
> of flight . . . or an item who's failure presents an immediate
> hazard to completion of flight.
>
How about the electric boost pump after the engine driven pump fails.
> (2) List the ways in which this device or system might fail.
>
The main diaphragm ruptures in the engine pump. Pilot in his anxiety
mode selects
almost dry tank and turns high pressure boost pump on which starts to
suck air, heats up impellors, seizes pump and pops breaker.
> (3) How will each of these failures become obvious to the pilot.
>
The first failure is signified by the big fan up front coming to a stop.
The fuel
pressure will go away when the redundant pump sucks air.
In this case I would let the pump cool reset the breaker, select other
tank and restart the engine.
Without positive fuel flow and a running engine you would be stuck up
there all day.
> Tomorrow, I'll carry the analysis of each response to the next
step.
> This is just the kind of process we do in the "big" airplane
business;
> it's a good exercise to know . . .
>
> Regards,
>
> Bob . . .
> AeroElectric Connection
>
Terry Jantzi
RV-6 with breakers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick_Smith(at)brahms2.tivoli.com |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
In response to Bob's request for flight-critical electrical equipment
failure scenarios. I have a couple although to find yourself in these
situations means you probably don't live right anyway, so watch for
lightning while playing golf. I have just purchased his Aeroelectric
Connection book and will be using it to develop my elect system on the
second RV I am building. Buy it you won't regret it.
Scenario 1:
Short strip with obstructions, at night and gross weight of course, with a
fixed pitch cruise prop and 150hp. You are making a full-flap (electric
flaps) approach into a high altitude airport (Telluride Colorado would
definately get you in this scenario) and overshoot the touchdown marker or
bounce and need to go around. When you try to retract full flaps, they
dont. To give credit to the RVs they climb like crazy with full flaps or
no flaps but if this were a C-172 you would be in big trouble because of a
flap motor failure.
Scenario 2:
You are cruising along at altitude miles from an airport and it just quits!
Mixture rich, carb heat on, switch tanks, boost pump on...then it starts
running again. Failed mechanical fuel pump. It's pretty obvious at this
point if the electric boost pump quits you will shortly be on the ground.
If you are really cool you might be able to keep it developing partial
power by pumping the manual primer, if you have one. If you have an
electrical solenoid-type primer forget it and just fly the plane to the
ground because there wont be any fuel pressure at the solenoid valve.
These are all I can think of but on another subject I have a question.
Bob, what have others used to actuate electric flaps if you dont want to
hold the spring loaded switch while the flaps are in transit.
it seems more desirableto have two SPST toggle switches side by side. Both
switches up is flaps up, one down is half, both down is full flaps. Or can
we use a three position switch with up, half and full positions? Will this
require three limit switches or can we just use one to identify the half
flaps position.
Any comments or feedback will be appreciated.
Rick.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
> (1) Name one item of electrical equipment critical to safe completion
> of flight . . . or an item who's failure presents an immediate
> hazard to completion of flight.
pitot heat in clouds.
> (2) List the ways in which this device or system might fail.
a) electrical short
b) failure of switch
c) heater fails
> (3) How will each of these failures become obvious to the pilot.
a) popped breaker if there is one
b) popped breaker if switch shorts, otherwise no indication unless
icing occurrs, then erroneous (low) airspeed indication.
c) no indication unless pitot ice, in which case erroneous airspeed
indication.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
> (1) Name one item of electrical equipment critical to safe completion
> of flight . . . or an item who's failure presents an immediate
> hazard to completion of flight.
Panel lights at night (yes of course you have a flashlight but you'll
need to get it out, turn it on, and fly the airplane in the meantime. I
consider the interim to be potentially hazardous, especially if you're
IFR.)
> (2) List the ways in which this device or system might fail.
a) short
b) open
> (3) How will each of these failures become obvious to the pilot.
Lights will go out
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Brown <kbrown(at)stellcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
At 10:38 AM 10/10/97, you wrote:
> Let's try an ON-LINE FMEA (failure mode effects analysis). Over the
> next 24 hours, I'd like for people to post their response to the following
> questions:
>
> (1) Name one item of electrical equipment critical to safe completion
> of flight . . . or an item who's failure presents an immediate
> hazard to completion of flight.
Magneto Switch. I don't know enough about the Electronic Ignition systems
that are available, but I assume that a switch failure there could also
cause problems.
>
> (2) List the ways in which this device or system might fail.
The switch could fail in such a way that one or both magnetos are no longer
grounded. Or it could also fail in such a way as to cause an intermittent
connection to ground. Lastly, it could fail closed (welded contacts).
>
> (3) How will each of these failures become obvious to the pilot.
With the intermittent or open switch, the engine would run rough with a
partial loss of power or a complete loss of power. Rough running engine
could cause damage to cowl, engine mount, exhaust system, etc.
Not an inflight situation, but on the ground a magneto switch with welded
contacts would cause a mag to be "hot" all of the time. A dangerous
situation that would not be obvious to the pilot at all.
-K-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
> (1) Name one item of electrical equipment critical to safe completion
> of flight . . . or an item who's failure presents an immediate
> hazard to completion of flight.
Electric flaps
>
> (2) List the ways in which this device or system might fail.
a) breaker or fuse pops due to jam or broken linkage
b) short
c) open
d) motor fails
> (3) How will each of these failures become obvious to the pilot.
It will depend a lot on the set-up, but I'm going to assume there is
no flap indicator since that's the way my plane is set up. So....
a) If failure occurs during the cycle and not at the end (e.g. in
flaps-up position when running the flaps up), then if pilot looks
out the window he will see it, or may first notice abnormal flight
characteristics. Otherwise, the only indication would be a popped
breaker (if present).
b) same as a)
c) same as a) except no popped breaker
d) a or c
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flight Testing |
| From: | tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com (John T. Craig-Stearman) |
Bravo, Scott. 'Listers, please keep these flight reports coming. They
provide much-needed motivation to those of us who are still muddling
through the interminable building.
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com
RV-4 wings mounted, installing systems
writes:
>Upon pattern entry, I'm indicating 140 kts . . . No problem,
>throttle
>back, prop full forward and a few moments later I'm indicating 65 kts.
> This is in an aircraft that a few minutes ago was showing 175 kts on
the
>GPS (during a shallow descent).
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fixed or tail dragger |
| From: | tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com (John T. Craig-Stearman) |
Tony,
I answer your question this way: Just imagine that sleek and sexy RV-8
sitting on a #%@$ NOSE gear! Ugh. Seriously, do not be afraid of the
ground handling of any Van's taildragger. They all exhibit perfectly
benign manners. They are considerably easier to handle on the gound than
any airplane that you might consider a tailwheel trainer (Citabria,
C-140, etc.) If you doubt my word, read the RV-8 review in the current
AOPA pilot, written by an author apparently unfamiliar with RVs. When
you factor in increased weight and drag with an extra gear leg hanging
out in the breeze, the choice should be obvious.
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com
>
>I am curious about the handling qualities of the 6 & the 6A. As i
>have
>started my RV-8 empenage, I am contemplating between the 8 and the 8A.
>
>Tony Moradian
>RV-8 empenage #80398
>N100TM reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fixed or tail dragger |
>
>Hi all,
>
>is there a big diff in resale pric
>***************************
No difference....Both sides are just as passionate about which is best!
Have a good day!
Denny Harjehausen
RV-6 Fuselage
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Costello <bcos(at)ix9.ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fixed or tail dragger |
>
>Hi all,
>
>is there a big diff in resale ability/price between the 6 and 6A
>***************************
>
>Tim Houle
Yes. The person looking for a -6 will pay a lot of bucks for a
good one and nothing for a -6A.
And this is not completely tongue in cheek.
Bill Costello
bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Auto Pilot Servo Mounting in a 6A |
I am nearing installation of the control system on my 6A and would like
some advice from builders who have installed a NavAid Devices autopilot.
1) Comments on pitch coupling when servo mounted on control stick assembly
just aft of F604. Some say a slight longitudinal component of servo force
is transmitted to the stick and causes pitching when aileron roll is
commanded. Two 6As at Sun&Fun had servos mounted in wing via the
bellcrank access hole (ala S-Tec mounting) to avoid pitch coupling. One
builder spoke of wing tip mounting, but I don't like the idea of the long
arm to the bellcrank.
2) What did you do to provide access to the servo? I've heard of
platenuts on the whole right forward cabin floor as well as a smaller
plate-nutted access hole.
3) What is their telephone and fax number? The telephone number from
their brochure I got at Sun&Fun has been disconnected.
Comments appreciated!
Dennis 6A Installing baggage floor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Marhyde alternative |
Bob, et. al., I did check with the local S-W distributor and my quess was
correct. My caution is not about using this on bare metal, but rather about
the recoating of the Corrosion Shield. This might occur either in touching up
an area where both primers have been used on adjacent parts or when recoating
an area prior to finish painting. I don't know what the results would be, but
the Corrosion Shield data sheet clearly states in BOLD PRINT to not recoat
with G.B.P. Etching Filler E2-G980 or E2-G983 (and according to the
distributor, E2-G988 spray can type), zinc chromate primer, or two-component
polyester-based primer-surfacers. Thanks.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ
Frankly I did not check on this because I only use it on bare alum.
Detailed info on this should be contained in their technical data sheet
(not the MSDS) which your local store probably has.
I rechecked the label and it contains no specific restrictions about
spraying OVER other finishes, but on the other hand it does say "Ideal
for BARE steel, aluminum and stainless steel."
Bob Reiff
les williams wrote:
>
>
> Attention Quickbuilders! Before you jump in and recoat anything with the
988
> G.B.P. Self Etching Primer mentioned, you might want to check with S-W to
see
> if it is compatible with the primer already on your quickbuild. According
to
> the product data sheet for Corrosion Shield Vinyl Etch Primer (which is
what's
> on the QBs), you should not recoat with G.B.P. Etching Filler E2-G980 or
> E2-G983. I would guess that the spray can contents is a variant of one of
> these and not compatible. My local S-W store closed before I could get a
call
> to them after seeing this. Will check with them tomorrow.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sfink(at)Microchip.COM (Scott Fink) |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
--IMA.Boundary.357825678
Aeroelectric Bob (fuse boy) wrote:
Let's try an ON-LINE FMEA (failure mode effects analysis). Over the
next 24 hours, I'd like for people to post their response to the following
questions:
I'll take a shot at this one:
(1) Name one item of electrical equipment critical to safe completion
of flight . . . or an item who's failure presents an immediate
hazard to completion of flight.
A GS receiver during an ILS approach in actual, or any NAV
equipment used in a non-precision approach.
(2) List the ways in which this device or system might fail.
You are obviously interested in only those failures that are
intermitant so:
(1) A solder-ball left over from manufacture/repair that breaks
loose in the turbulance and temporarily shorts the power input.
(2) A wire which has not been properly protected, the insulation
gets cut against a sharp edge and intermitently shorts.
Both of these scenarios are not only possible, but show up all the
time in service difficulty reports.
(3) How will each of these failures become obvious to the pilot.
The breaker (or unreachable in flight fuse) pops. If you have a
breaker, you execute a missed and trouble shoot in the hold. If you
have unreacheable fuses, you hope you have enough fuel to reach VMC.
Scott Fink
RV-6 Working on Left wing, and laying out my breaker panel
--IMA.Boundary.357825678
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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 10:38:23
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <aeroelectric.com!nuckolls(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut.....
<19971009.204841.4863.0.GASobek(at)juno.com>
--IMA.Boundary.357825678--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fixed or tail dragger |
Taildragger! Taildragger! Taildragger! To hell with resale value and
practicality! These are airplanes after all! Don't let anyone fool you,
there is nothing hard about flying a taildragger, and it is definately
more fun.
Moe Colontonio
-8 Emp ordered
> >
> >Hi all,
> >
> >is there a big diff in resale pric
> >***************************
>
> No difference....Both sides are just as passionate about which is best!
> Have a good day!
> Denny Harjehausen
> RV-6 Fuselage
> Lebanon, OR
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
Fuses fit the RV way of thinking.
Breakers are for Lancair IVs.
How many breakers are there in the New Mercedes line?
Bruce Patton
Almost done wiring, with fuses
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Fixed or tail dragger |
I don't know that anyone is keeping stats on this but from the ads I've seen,
I'd say that the tri-gears generally are commanding a somewhat higher price
tag. And I'd also say that they are probably easier to sell because of the
larger number of tri-gear qualified vs. tail-wheel qualifed potential buyers.
JMHO.
I modified a picture of the RV-8 making it a tri-gear. Looked pretty nice;
sort of like a tandem seat Navion.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ (of course)
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of Tim Houle
Sent: Friday, October 10, 1997 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fixed or tail dragger
Hi all,
is there a big diff in resale pric
***************************
Tim Houle
email: eprth(at)kneehill.com
***************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fixed or tail dragger |
charset="iso-8859-1"
I have been listening as long as I can. I agree with all the Tailwheel
fanatics, I too am one, with one major caveat.
I know some pilots who just should not fly tailwheel airplanes. (these
individuals probably should not fly period, but they do, and if they are
going to, they should do it in nose draggers.)
My recommendation for making this descision would be as follows:
If you currently fly Tailwheel aircraft and enjoy it, and are comfortable in
them you know the right descision.
If you are not in above group, go fly with someone you respect who has
nothing to prove to you (You know, how smart they are and how dumb you
are,). This does not need to be in a tailwheel airplane. I can tell in 10
minutes whether or not someone will make the transistion easily. If they
say you can do it you will be fine. Don't let all these people who think
T/W pilots walk on water intimidate you. It is not that difficult. If this
trusted person has any reservation, go for the nose gear.
Conversly the whole point of flying these kind of airplanes is to have fun.
If you are not comfortable in your new airplane you will not have fun in it.
What a waste to put all that effort into a project that you won't enjoy,
just because some blow hard tells you that real men fly T/W airplanes.
Short story
I missed an opportunity to buy a T-6 from a friend who needed to sell it 12
years ago because I was not a T/W pilot, and was quite sure that I did not
have the "right stuff" to be one. I could have bought it then for $35000
dollars and I had the money. Today another friend is selling the same
airplane for $120,000. All that has been done to that airplane since then
is flying. I don't have the $120,000.
2 years later I was flying night freight in a Twin-Beech ( a rather
formidable T/W on a formidable mission) and now I fly from the back seat of
a T-6. (another interesting challenge)
Don't be afraid, but don't be stupid either.
IMHO
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Fixed or tail dragger |
Bob, I quess the same could be said for a person looking for a -6A except that
they would pay even more bucks!
Les
>
>Hi all,
>
>is there a big diff in resale ability/price between the 6 and 6A
>***************************
>
>Tim Houle
Yes. The person looking for a -6 will pay a lot of bucks for a
good one and nothing for a -6A.
And this is not completely tongue in cheek.
Bill Costello
bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
What kind of plane is the "New Mercedes"? How well does it fly? Can you land
it in the dark? Does it have a gravity feed fuel system? Just curious about
a couple of things.
Les
----------
From: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com on behalf of
aol.com!BPattonsoa(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 10, 1997 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut.....
Fuses fit the RV way of thinking.
Breakers are for Lancair IVs.
How many breakers are there in the New Mercedes line?
Bruce Patton
Almost done wiring, with fuses
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Questions about Chevy V6 installations |
Hi all,
There are several flying and more building.
Since, as the Smithsonian asserts "auto engines can't fly", are there any
disappointed builders ready to sell their installations? Parts? Re-drives,
engine mounts, radiators etc? I need this stuff.
What problems did those who do have them running encounter?
Are any of these engines set up with forged steel crankshafts or forged pistons?
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Auto engines on MWF, Lycomings on TTS
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
Hello again,
I got my oil cooler back on today and tried it out. It definitely
helped to have it cleaned out. It now hovers around the 220 mark. I
can live with that. If I slow down under 135 mph for long it creeps up
to 230. If I give it more throttle to 2500 rpm's, it cools back down to
220 or 225. I flew it for 2 hours straight and it never got hot enough
to cause me concern, other than I know it should be cooler. The way it
cools down with more speed leads me to think it is a baffling problem
now. Could it be a combination of lower speeds with higher power
causing the problem? Has any one else out there with a low pitch prop
have the same problem? At 10,000 feet I could still get 2700 rpm and
1000 feet climb rate. It was cold up yonder.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Mack" <donmack(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fixed or tail dragger |
charset="iso-8859-1"
I don't see what the big deal is. For fun I fly a Cub. Hopefully one day
I'll fly my 6A. Once the tires leave the ground the rubber doesn't make all
that much difference. I am building a plane to fly not to taxi.
Don Mack
donmack(at)flash.net
http://www.flash.net/~donmack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Tim Lewis' RV-6AQ Photos on WWW |
I've posted several pictures from my project for anybody on the list
who cares to take a look. The pictures are in several sections:
- Early 6AQ work
- Wings
- Empenage
- Canopy (slider, done)
- Panel (I elected to go with a two section panel similar to that
used on the Young Eagles RV-6)
The URL is http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a/
Tim Lewis
------------------------------------
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or
timrv6a(at)iname.com
------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RobHickman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Where to mount fuse panel |
I am currently wiring my RV-4 and would like some idea's on mounting the fuse
panel.
I have a full row of breakers mounted on the lower instrument panel. I am
using the Buss 10 position fuse holder as an essential buss. The cleanest
place to mount it would be under the access cover, but to check fuses the
cover would need to be removed. I also thought about mounting it on the right
side of the fuselage skin above your leg. The wires from the panel could be
cought with foot when getting in though.
P.S.
I already had $250 worth of breakers and had them mounted before the great
debate.
GPS mounting
I am considering putting a resesed Recessed tray in the center of my panel
(where the artificial horizon and directional gyro would go ) to hold my
Garmin 195 does any one have any thoughts on this?
Thanks
Rob Hickman
N401RH IO-360 180HP C/S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net> |
Well I'm up to the point of riveting the last four rivets
in top & bottom of rudder any suggestions?
Mike Comeaux-------mcomeaux(at)cmc.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net> |
The rivets in question are the last 4 tight ones. I even
have the no set on my sqeezers.
Mike Comeaux
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bstobbe(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
<3.0.1.16.19971010103823.2807ce24(at)dtc.net>
On Fri, 10 Oct 1997 10:38:23 "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
writes:
> Let's try an ON-LINE FMEA (failure mode effects analysis). Over the
> next 24 hours, I'd like for people to post their response to the
>following
> questions:
>
> (1) Name one item of electrical equipment critical to safe
>completion of flight . . . or an item who's failure presents an
immediate<
As far as I can tell, all you guys that answered this so far have fallen
right into Bob's trap - the problem you would face would be exactly the
same regardless of whether your panel had fuses or breakers (think about
it).
It appears to me that the only time breakers have an advantage in saving
your hide is in the case of the million-to-one intermittent short that
somehow magically disappears when you reset the breaker (hey, if you
routinely have this kind of luck you should head right for Vegas when you
finish your airplane!). If you want to design your machine to cover this
type of possibility, then you only have to weigh the pros and cons of
doing so versus the likelihood of such an occurence - but be careful
because this type of thinking carried through to all areas of design will
result in an airplane that stalls at 200 mph instead of cruising at that
speed. :>)
BTW, what is so hard about replacing a fuse in flight? IMHO, if you can
jot down clearances and keep approach plates from falling out of your lap
while talking to ATC and flying your airplane, you should be able to pull
out and replace a fuse if your panel is designed properly - assuming you
want the capability to do this type of thing.
Bruce Stobbe
"it just ain't possible to design for 100%..."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | re: The great breaker debate |
The "accessible breaker vs inaccessible fuse" debate is interesting
to watch, and Bob Nuckoll's articles have had an impact on how I
designed my electrical system (RV-6AQ, panel mostly done). I don't
agree with everything Bob advocates, but he provides a lot of good
food for thought.
It seems to me there are three main arguments in favor of
inaccessible fuses:
1. A fuse panel is cheaper than a bunch of breakers.
2. A blown fuse/tripped breaker usually means something is very
wrong, and you won't be able to fix it in flight (so design the
panel so nothing on it is flight critical)
3. You can kill yourself fiddling with breakers in flight when you
should be flying the airplane.
My opinions on the arguments:
1. True. But the difference is so small that in the overall cost of
an RV it really doesn't matter. For example my RV has 13
breakers. Most of them came from Chief at a unit cost of $12.50.
That's a total cost of $162.50. Peanuts.
2. I agree with the philosophy of providing a backup system for
truly flight critical systems where ever possible. Having done
that, I still consider it worthwhile to provide myself with the
option of attempting to restore the primary system if the breaker
pops. It is usually true that one won't be able to restore a
tripped circuit in flight, but it's not always true. Circuits with
intermittent problems may be restorable in flight, and I submit that
it's worthwhile to provide the pilot with the opportunity to see if
that's possible. For example:
2a. My old Grumman developed an intermittent short in the panel
lights one night while I was IFR. I used a flashlight to get to VFR
on top, swapped the fuse, and had the panel lights for the rest of
the flight. It was very nice to have the whole panel illuminated,
even though I had a backup system (the flashlight). I was glad that
I had the OPTION to replace the fuse. My RV design includes a
small eyeball light as a backup to the panel lights, but in my
opinion it is still worthwhile to have the panel light breaker within
reach so I can try recycling it if needed. Cost is minimal,
potential convenience is high.
2b. My RV panel has a single KX-155 with glideslope. I have a
semi-permanently installed ICOM handheld (Comm and VOR) in the plane
as well. If there's an intermittent short that takes out the KX-155
I loose my ILS capability, but I still have Comm and VOR
capability from the ICOM. I believe it's worth the effort to wire
the system so I have the OPTION to try to bring the radio back on
line in flight to restore my ILS capability. One can argue that this
isn't likely to happen. That's true, but it's worth $12.50 to me to
provide me the OPTION to attempt a reset. (One can argue that I
should have a second ILS, but I'm not that rich.)
2c. Bob has recommended using an off-the-panel 70 amp fuse in the
alternator circuit rather than a circuit breaker on the panel. I
almost went that route, until Bob wrote me the following email a
month ago:
> I've had a couple of readers report blowing of the 70-amp
> fuse when thier (sic) 60 amp alternator comes on line and works
> hard to recharge a dead battery. Most alternators will
> put out better than rated current when they are cold. I'm
> going to up size my fuse kits to 80 amps. The fuses are on
> order. Your dimmer is built and ready to ship.
Bob had done the best design work he could, he proposed a design
that a lot of people adopted (me included), and it turned out to
have an unexpected problem. Unexpected things can happen in
aircraft systems, and I believe in providing myself with the MOST
options possible (breaker resets included), not the FEWEST
possible (fuses out of reach, so live with the problem until
you land). I've changed my design to include a breaker for the
alternator output. It's a whole lot easier to reset the
alternator breaker rather than having to replace a 70 (or 80) amp
fuse that's been intentionally removed from the pilot's reach.
3. It is true that you can kill yourself by piddling with breakers
when you should be flying the airplane. I believe that problem is
best solved by training, not by changing the aircraft design so that
the pilot can't even reach his circuit protectors.
In conclusion, I believe accessible breakers are a good way to
provide circuit protection. They don't cost much more than a hidden
fuse block, and they give the pilot the option to troubleshoot if
pilot workload permits and the situation warrants it. I believe the
decision whether or not to troubleshoot an electrical problem during
a particular flight should be the PILOT'S decision, not the
DESIGNER'S decision.
Tim Lewis
B.S. and M.S., Electrical Engineering
(with nowhere near the practical experience Bob Nuckolls has)
------------------------------------
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or
timrv6a(at)iname.com
------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Where to mount fuse panel |
On 11 Oct 97 at 0:45, aol.com!RobHickman@matronics. wrote:
> I am considering putting a resesed Recessed tray in the center of my panel
> (where the artificial horizon and directional gyro would go ) to hold my
> Garmin 195 does any one have any thoughts on this?
>
I did it, and I like the result. Poor quality picture is at
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a/panel.htm
I built a little box that goes behind the GPS opening in the panel.
The part of the yoke mount that attaches to the GPS 195 is screwed to
the back of the box. The side of the box is left open so that I can
reach the yoke mount knob from behind the panel to remove the GPS
without removing the GPS box. Works OK so far, but I'm a long way
from flying the plane.
Tim (breakers) Lewis
------------------------------------
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or
timrv6a(at)iname.com
------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | F631 cabin frame |
Listers,
This is a question for any -6/-6A builder with the tip up canopy already
done. I'm beginning the cabin frame and have hit a snag right off the
bat. From the manual and plans, I see that I'm to put the F631C angle
flush to the edges of the longerons. However, my longerons bend
around to the tail section at that point and do not allow me to have the
F631C flush from front to back without turning the angle around to
match. That won't work because the F631As wouldn't fit, then. If I
move the F631C in about 1/16", the angle will at least be inside the
skin line. That means shimming to get a good fit with the skin. How
did you handle this. Did you move it in, file it off at the rear, or what?
I have to admit that it was nice to see the 42.5" at the front of the
F605. That's to plan! Sometimes I do things correctly. :-)
Jim Sears
RV-6A #22220 (doing the cabin frame)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick E. Kelley" <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fixed or tail dragger |
MoeJoe wrote:
>
>
> Taildragger! Taildragger! Taildragger! To hell with resale value and
> practicality! These are airplanes after all! Don't let anyone fool you,
> there is nothing hard about flying a taildragger, and it is definately
> more fun.
Nosedragger! Nosedragger! Nosedragger! To hell with resale value and
practicality! These are airplanes after all! Don't let anyone fool you,
there is nothing more fun about flying a taildragger, and it is
definitely
more difficult.
Just kidding, but I couldn't resist. After all, both sides are pretty
passionate about their preferences. Personally, I'm after the
over-the-cowl visibility on the ground. Other than that, I can't see
much difference. In the air, they are nearly identical. I think the
cost of a rating is negligible, especially in a case like myself where I
intend to get the rating anyway. As far as the original question, I
think resale would depend more on engine and equipment than landing gear
configuration.
PatK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven Janicki" <SJANICKI(at)us.oracle.com> |
| Subject: | Aerobatics and RV6 |
--=_ORCL_14711225_0_11919710111443210
Can someone please tell me to what extent they have been doing Aerobatic's in an
RV6? I am
trying to get a feel for what to expect. I have done Aerobatics and a Citabria
and a Pilatus.
I understand the RV6 is limited to what it can and cannot do. Also, any experiences
with
spins, flat, inverted, eetc? Finally, does someone know what the +/- G loads the
airframe
is capable of?
Regards,
Steve
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The statements and opinions expressed here are my own and
do not necessarily represent those of Oracle Corporation.
When once you have tasted flight,
you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been, and there you will always long to return.
-- Leonardo Da Vinci
Steven B. Janicki
Director of Client Services
ORACLE Data Center
Voice (415)506-2740
Fax (415)633-2933
--=_ORCL_14711225_0_11919710111443210
name="anonymous-attachment-1";
charset="us-ascii"
filename="anonymous-attachment-1"
Can someone please tell me to what
extent they have been doing Aerobatic's in an RV6? I am trying to get
a feel for what to expect. I have done Aerobatics and a Citabria and
a Pilatus. I understand the RV6 is limited to what it can and cannot
do. Also, any experiences with spins, flat, inverted, eetc? Finally,
does someone know what the +/- G loads the airframe is capable of?
Regards,
Steve
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The statements and opinions expressed here are my own and
do not necessarily represent those of Oracle Corporation.
When once you have tasted flight,
you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been, and there you will always long to return.
--
Leonardo Da Vinci
Steven B. Janicki
Director of Client Services
ORACLE Data Center
Voice (415)506-2740
Fax (415)633-2933
--=_ORCL_14711225_0_11919710111443210--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | F631 cabin frame |
Jim, I split the difference, 1/32" in , 1/32" over. Then I file down the back
part so that the F-674 skin will lay flat down the side. The front of the
skin pulls in a little making a small joggle at the longeron, but looks good.
I also tap the longeron for a #6 screw to attach the skin at the forward most
hole because of the difficulty to rivet it.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ
Listers,
This is a question for any -6/-6A builder with the tip up canopy already
done. I'm beginning the cabin frame and have hit a snag right off the
bat. From the manual and plans, I see that I'm to put the F631C angle
flush to the edges of the longerons. However, my longerons bend
around to the tail section at that point and do not allow me to have the
F631C flush from front to back without turning the angle around to
match. That won't work because the F631As wouldn't fit, then. If I
move the F631C in about 1/16", the angle will at least be inside the
skin line. That means shimming to get a good fit with the skin. How
did you handle this. Did you move it in, file it off at the rear, or what?
I have to admit that it was nice to see the 42.5" at the front of the
F605. That's to plan! Sometimes I do things correctly. :-)
Jim Sears
RV-6A #22220 (doing the cabin frame)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ShelbyRV6A(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Van's new Cowling |
I was wondering about the new cowling. Are they using the same cowling for
the 6 and the 8?
Shelby in Nashville.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ShelbyRV6A(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Mike Seager - Taildragger |
Last weekend at the Lebanon Fly-in Mike was giving some dual in the
original(?) RV-6 from Van's. Although to say I'm rusty would be an
understatement, I signed up for an hour in a tail dragger. First of all, I
want everyone to know it is a joy to ride with Mike Seager. He's patient,
doesn't presume, and walks you through the paces. I made four full stop
landings, my first in a tail dragger and RV, and really enjoyed the
experience. If any of you have the opportunity to work with Mike, I highly
recommend it.
Shelby in Nashville
Haven't changed my mind about Taildraggers even though they look better
different strokes for different folks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heating problem |
Michael:
Your heating problem sounds like there is no oil going thru the cooler.
The temps you quote are what non oil cooler engines run, simply the
cooling air over the engine cooling the oil pan and engine. I know many
people have mentioned the therostatic valve that controls oil flow to
the filter and the cooler, but I still suspect it. Have you felt the
oil filter and the oil cooler to see if they are hot from the oil flow
after the flight? Most RV's have the opposite problem. I have never
been able to get mine over 170 degrees.
John Kitz
N721JK
172 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Where to mount fuse panel |
aol.com!RobHickman(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> Rob wrote:
> I am currently wiring my RV-4 and would like some idea's on mounting the fuse
> panel.
>
> Rob;
I put full side panels in my RV-4, covering the inside from the
first bulkhead back to the rear seat with 0.025 material. They come up
to the bottom fo the triangular piece between the seats on the sides. I
used it to put a pocket in for maps, pens, arm rests, throttle quadrant,
and last but not least, fuses. The fuses end up being beside my knee.
some on each side. They could be changed in flight. The trim handle is
in a radial slot through this panel and all the cables and wires run
behind the panels.
I had the material left over after I ordered 0.032 material to cover the
top of the wings with one piece and not have the overlap.
John Kitz
N721JK
172 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
<3.0.1.16.19971010103823.2807ce24(at)dtc.net>
>It appears to me that the only time breakers have an advantage in saving
>your hide is in the case of the million-to-one intermittent short that
>somehow magically disappears when you reset the breaker (hey, if you
>routinely have this kind of luck you should head right for Vegas when you
>finish your airplane!).
Isn't an advantage also that you can see that the circuit breaker popped?
(I know, I know --DONT reset it or you are asking for trouble!!! ) If a
fuse blew and you couldn't see it, then might you have to guess what went
wrong? Was it an overload (momentary or permanent), or a short, or did the
equipment just stop working because of mechanical or internal problems? If
you see that popped circuit breaker, then you know that you have an
electrical problem, that may or may not have a mechanical component. If I
understand Mr Nuckolls correctly, he says what causes the problem doesn't
matter, because the action required by the pilot would be the same in
either case. Hopefully your system is designed correctly so that you can
land safely.
Low time inquiring minded pilots want to know. Does seeing a popped
circuit breaker versus your equipment just stop working have any value?
Regards,
Tom Velvick
rver(at)caljet.com
rv-6 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Irwin" <pcpms(at)leadbelt.com> |
Let me make a recommendation that would be both interesting and helpful for
many of us new timers to the list: include the city you're from in your
signature. With 800 or so of us now sharing experiences and info in this
way, personal contacts could be easily made with builders in our area or
when travelling.
Michael Irwin
Bonne Terre, MO
Preparing work space for RV-8 & looking for a taildragger to fly locally.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Irwin" <pcpms(at)leadbelt.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 tree blade prop? |
According to the specs on p. 59 of November Kitplanes, the -8's propeller
is a three-blade CS Hartzell. Is this correct? In any case, let me show
my ignorance here by asking, what's the difference between a 2 or 3 blade
prop? If the info in the article is incorrect, is this an option for us
builders and what are the pros and cons of such a choice?
Michael Irwin
Bonne Terre, MO
Preparing work area for my RV-8 & looking for a local taildragger to rent.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flyinghi(at)worldnet.att.net |
| Subject: | Elevator Electric Trim |
As I go back and finish up unfinished business, I find I cannot find any
drawing, detail, instruction, etc. for my electric elevator trim
installation. I assume I have misplaced the fabrication drawing and
instructions. Can anyone supply me with any details. I will gladly pay
for mailing, copies, etc. Or it can be faxed to 409 786-4580 or e-mailed
to me offline.
I appreciate the help.
Charles Golden
N609CG RV-6A
Chevy V-6 powered
SN 24765
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JimNolan(at)mail.kconline.com |
Michael Lott,
I've been following your flight testing with interest.
Especially the heating problem. My RV-4 has the cooler mounted on the
back of #4 clylinder. Larry Vetterman told me to put it there and I
would get the best cooling possible. He also told me I had to install
it 1 inch away from the baffle to get good results. He claimed it
needed the 1 inch to be effective.
I did just what he said and my oil temp is always 100 degrees
higher than the outside air, give or take 5 degrees. During the
winter I have a cable controlled adjustable vent that I put in frount
of the cooler which will bring up the oil temp 30 degrees if needed.
(during the winter here it's always needed)
The RV-4 is notorious for running cold. When I installed my
0-320E3D I didn't have the cooler flushed, but I did install the temp
sender that was supposed to be used with the temp guage I was
running. Hope this will add to your inventory of knowledge.
Jim Nolan N444JN
Warsaw, In.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Kraus <pkraus(at)medeserv.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: GLASTARNET: Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
<19971009.204841.4863.0.GASobek(at)juno.com> <3.0.1.16.19971010103823.2807ce24(at)dtc.net>
Hi All,
Just an example of a situation where a circuit breaker was better than a
fuse for me at the time.
I was preparing to land the Comanche and the gear wouldn't go down when
I put the switch in the gear down position. A quick check showed the
circuit breaker needed resetting. The Comanche has a great big lever
for manual extension of the gear, and said lever lays itself flat on the
floor when the gear retracts. I was unable to reset the circuit breaker
as a corner of my flight bag had jammed under the knob on this lever,
preventing it going all the way to the floor. When I pulled the flight
bag aside the lever could go all the way, the breaker could be reset,
and the wheels went down without an emergency manual extension.
I'm certainly not qualified to comment on what may be technically best.
Regards,
Peter Kraus (GlaStar builder)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Rough running..problem solved |
About a week ago, I posted a note describing an engine problem Id had where it
started to run
rough for about 2 seconds and then recovered.
I had several responses from listers with advice...thanks guys, you know who you
are...and now that
the problems been solved..heres the results.
The problem showed itself up at high rpm, over about 1900. I could sit there with
the engine
running fine for 5 minutes and then suddenly it was as if someone had thrown a
slug of water into
each cylinder. The engine kept on running but at reduced rpm and with an even (same
across all
cylinders) roughness. It recovered instantly after about 2 seconds. I could usually
repeat it
although it was very unpredictable and very seldom. At no time did it quit.
A mechanic and I went through it with a fine tooth comb for a day. We could find
nothing wrong. On
the advice of another engine guy I put some Rislone in the oil in case it was a
sticky valve
although it really did not feel like one, we were getting desparate to find the
problem as the RV
was stranded miles from home.
I took of the air box to look inside and check around the inside of the fuel servo
(it is an
injected engine). There was a hole in the bottom of the fiberglass airbox about
3/8 diameter. At
one time Id had a screw and nut here as part of an alt air system which Id sealed
off.The hole
was inside the air filter, almost directly below the servo inlet.
What concerned me was that the hole was the diameter of a washer and not the diameter
of the screw.
This of course suggested that it had vibrated itself out.
My mechanic said it was unlikely that it had been sucked in because of its weight
and had more than
likely fallen out the bottom of the cowl, probably through someones windshield!
Terry Jantzi suggested hoses because of possible problems with flapper valves or
degraded inner
linings and generously offered to fly out with some parts, plus a new flow devider
from Clarences
unfinished RV4...just in case... and bring Clarence along too.
Anyway, when these guys arrived, the problem could not be repeated. They watched
intently from
outside while I ran my engine, desparately trying to repeat it but sort of hoping
it wouldnt. I
noticed Clarence point at something, then Terry looked concerned so I shut down
and got out.
The screw had magically appeared back in its hole!! The guys had noticed it rattling
around. I
cant estimate what the chances of it finding its way back there are but it did.
It had obviously
been floating around inside the servo and intermittently jamming something. I flew
it home with no
hiccups at all.
So, watch out for attaching ANYTHING to the airbox fiberglass. I notice now that
the bottom of mine
is very thin and even 3/8 washers didnt spread the load enough to stop it shaking
out.
The good news is it wasnt an engine problem and Ive had my system looked at by
some good eyes
with only a few minor observations of things to do better.
I was really impressed the way folks rallied around to help and Ive got to say
thanks to Dr. John
Cocker, Terry Jantzi and Clarence (sorry Clarence, I always forget your last name)
for enthusiastic
assistance to get me out of this bind.
Ken
RV6A Flying again.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 tree blade prop? |
I presume this is a wood prop. :-)
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: Heating problem |
Thanks Jim,
This is exactly where my cooler is. I will go throught the whole
checklist again next week. I am borrowing another prop today from a 180
hp -4. It will probably be severely over pitched, but i won't know till
I try it next week. Of course the baffling, timing, etc., will all be
checked again. Thanks. Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heating problem |
I see a number of fellows that are building RV-6s that are
installing their oil coolers on the fire wall with a 3" tube coming off the
baffle above the number three cylinder.
Has anyone had experience with that location?
I was wondering about tapping the air off the other side above the
number four cylinder. My Understanding was that number three cylinder
generally runs slightly higher on most airplanes. So maybe tapping at #4
would be better?
Have a good day!
Denny Harjehausen
RV-6 Fuselage
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv-list(at)pteron.demon.co.uk (Andy Repton) |
| Subject: | Calling all listers in the Toronto area |
I'm coming to Canada on Thursday the 16th til the 30th and will be
staying in Oshawa. If there are any listers in the area with RV's, who
would like to show them off, I'd love to see them.
I've managed to convince my better half that we need to build an RV,
but I'm sure seeing one up close will seal the deal :))
Regards
Andy
RV8 wannabe, bought the compressor, got the Avery catalogue, now need
the kit :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | SHRINKER-STRETCHER WANTED TO USE |
RV-4 builder wants to borrow (will pay) or purchase a metal
shrinker/stretcher tool.
RV-4 Kit #1852
Michael Wylychenko
673 Cessna St.
Independence, Or. 97351
503-838-4987
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | SHRINKER-STRETCHER WANTED TO USE |
RV-4 builder wants to borrow (will pay) or purchase a metal
shrinker/stretcher tool.
RV-4 Kit #1852
Michael Wylychenko
673 Cessna St.
Independence, Or. 97351
503-838-4987
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
Michael Irwin writes:
>
> include the city you're from in your signature.
Excellent suggestion, Michael. As with all good writing, you
have to think about who the reader is, and under what circumstances
he or she will be reading what you write.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: Calling all listers in the Toronto area |
Andy, I may be Toronto the weekend of 18/19. My RV6A is at Buttonville which is
just North of
Toronto.
If the weather is cooperative I may even be able to get to Oshawa airport...depends
on if I'm doing
some work on it or not.
Why don't you call me at (905) 508 1935 (home) or 416 973 2681 during the day when
you get to
Toronto.
There's a fee though....one can of Kestrel Super Lager!!!!
Ken
RV6A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heating / Power Settings |
Denny, I have my oil cooler on the firewall, with the 3" tubing coming from
just behind number three cylinder.
I put a trap door on the bottom of the oil cooler, so I can control it from
the cockpit, and now it is getting cooler in Ontario, I am flying with it
closed all the time. If air is passing through the oil cooler, the oil
temperature is about 160, which is lower than recommended.
I have been flying at 65% power, (22" Manifold pressure, and 2200 rpm) using
just less than 8 gallons/ hour, at 165-170 mph. Terry Jantzi tells me he
flies at 75% power. (25' and 2500 rpm), as he feels it is better for the
engine to run hotter. I find I run fine at those setting, using 9.5 Glas/hr.
and 180-185 mph
During the summer I noted that number three cylinder is the hottest one, so
it is losing some of the air which should be cooling it, but the difference
is only 10 dgrees. I should put a dam in front of number one cylinder, I see
a lot of builders have done that.
I have been having such fun flying, I have not touched anything mechanical
since I started flying. I am now up to 100 hours, so I am going to do a
major inspectionb this weekend - if only the weather wasn't so good !
Do any of you engine experts have views of which power setting is best for
the engine ? We both have Lycoming 360, by the way.
Terry and I started a contest for which of us would fly the most hours in
the next year. The prize to be a bottle of wine. What he failed to mention
was, he was leaving the next day for British Columbia, and he came back four
days later, having flown 32 hours. Does anyone know where I can get a
bottle of really cheap wine ?
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Calling all listers in the Toronto area |
Andy, call me when you get to Toronto. 905 853 1884, evenings 905 836 7067
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Rough running..problem solved |
Hi Ken,
Well done on finding the problem. And I commend you for taking the time
to sort it out despite the hassles it caused you.
An RV-4 here in NZ very intermittently had similar symptoms to yours.
The owner kept flying it whilst trying to diagnose the fault. The cause
(some metal balls in the carb float chamber, presumably from some
cleaning by shot-blasting at some earlier point) wasn't found until
after the crash... Power failure at 400ft after takeoff but the engine
didn't recover as usual, the pilot turned back to runway. Both pilot and
passenger were badly injured and the plane severely damaged.
People, let's be careful out there.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel 6A |
Alex Peterson,
The way I cut my instrument panel for the slider was to take some
display board (posterboard with foam core) and cut it a little undersize
and installed it where the instrument panel goes. I them took 1" wide
strips of posterboard and taped them around the curved edges of the
display board, overlapping them, so that they come in contact with the
fuselage skin. I also did this around the longeron gusset the instrument
panel sits on. When done this accurately discribes the profile of the
instrument panel. Lay it on the panel, trace and cut.
Frank Smidler
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Kennedy <skennedy(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
<3.0.1.16.19971010103823.2807ce24(at)dtc.net> <3.0.3.32.19971011202046.006bb1f0(at)postoffice.syspac.com>
Thomas Velvick wrote:
>
>
> >It appears to me that the only time breakers have an advantage in saving
> >your hide is in the case of the million-to-one intermittent short that
Gentlemen:
Resetable breaker once saved me, my Baron, and five companions. Cover
was kicked off of manual extension handle, which sticks out behind the
pilot's seat, near the floor. A brief case jambed the handle when I
lowered the gear to land at Houston Hobby, and the gear stopped half way
down.---lots of noise and sounds of wrenching gear box. Of course the
breaker popped. We cleared the handle and reset the breaker. Popped
again. Then started what would have been amusing under other
circumstances. Houston asked if I wanted foam laid down, and how much.
It seems they charge by the square foot. I asked how much and they
didnt know. While we haggled, everything cooled down, and I tried the
gear switch one more time. It worked! I just loved that breaker...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wmills(at)southwind.net (William H. Mills) |
| Subject: | Re: Fixed or tail dragger |
I share Jim's regard for the Grumman-American line of aircraft; got many
hours in them. Very economical to operate, and very quick in their class.
Ground handling is superb; the lack of nosewheel steering caused some to
question them, but they handle very, very well.
Actually, it wasn't really "the market" that killed the Grumman-Americans,
at least on the first incarnation. The Tigers and Cheetahs were making
quite an inroad into Cessna and Piper sales; in fact, they were 3rd in that
market category, not Beech (who had the Musketeer/Sundowner/Sport in that
category). What killed them was Allen Paulsen and American Jet Industries
buying the GA division from Grumman Aerospace to build his Hustler
pushme-pullyou turboprop/turbofan; he had no interest in the piston line,
and promptly shut it down.
They did have problems when they first transferred production to Savannah
from Cleveland with the bonding process, which resulted in some debonds in
the field, but the process problem was subsequently fixed, and I don't
believe they had any further problems in that regard. Beech used bonded
skins on the Musketeer/Sundowner/Sport line, too. The AA-1 (Yankee), as
originally built, was certainly no C-150 or Cherokee; a lot of low-timers
got into trouble with it when they expected it to fly like one, or when
students were taught to fly them similar to a 150. I didn't find them
"dangerous"; demanding, yes, but not so much so that a properly-trained
student couldn't safely fly one. In that sense, they were good trainers
for those looking at larger prizes (e.g., Bonanza). The AA-1A and
subsequent variants did tame the airplane some; they weren't as demanding
as the AA-1s for low timers.
Bill Mills
Wichita
>
>Allen and listers, when the comment below was made, I had to step
>in and set things straight. The Grumman does handle that well. I'm
>building a RV-6A because of the handling qualities of my AA5A
>Grumman-American Cheetah. I, too, have the rudder authority and
>use the brakes sparingly. IMHO, what got them was the glued on
>skins and the problems students had with the AA1 trainers at first.
>The rumors abounded and killed the airplane. My first airplane was a
>Skyhawk when I wanted a Grumman. I listened to my friends and
>made the wrong decision. Today, I'm in love with my Cheetah and
>will really hate it when I sell it after the RV-6A's completion. In fact, I
>may sell the -6A if I don't like it well enough to keep it.
>
>Oh, yeah, I have folks standing in line to buy the Cheetah. The word
>got out about how great they are and has driven the market way up.
>'nuff said.
>
>>I suspect that if a Grumman handled this well they would have been
>far more popular!<
>
>Jim Sears
>RV-6A #22220 (building the cabin frame)
>AA5A Cheetah N26276
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: Rough running..problem solved |
>An RV-4 here in NZ very intermittently had similar symptoms to yours.
>The owner kept flying it whilst trying to diagnose the fault. The cause
>(some metal balls in the carb float chamber, presumably from some
>cleaning by shot-blasting at some earlier point) wasn't found until
>after the crash... Power failure at 400ft after takeoff but the engine
>didn't recover as usual, the pilot turned back to runway. Both pilot and
>passenger were badly injured and the plane severely damaged.
Hi Frank,
Yeh, it was a tough decision to leave it on the ground, especially as it was a
3 hour drive to get
there.
The decision was made easier by the fact that at each end of the runway was a lake...surrounding
each lake was nothing but trees and pretty much nothing but trees for 20 miles.
The decision was also reinforced by the death of a friend and very experienced
pilot who recently
turned back after an engine failure.
Something else I learned was that my wife is very good in a crisis. I'm always
grumbling about how
she's just a passive participant in the flying thing, but I've come to realise
thats a lot more
than some wives who won't even fly. Particularly how she behaved when the engine
did it at 1000ft
over the lake on take off and the fact that she will still fly with me makes me
realise I'm luckier
than many. Mind you, she did use the "F" word, but only after we'd landed!!!
Another lesson was just how great the RV is to fly. On one trip back, my wife got
a ride home in a
Cherokee 150 and me in a Cessna 206....when we got home we both commented that
we felt like getting
out and pushing..we'd become so used to RV speeds.
Ken
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Where to mount fuse panel |
| From: | tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com (John T. Craig-Stearman) |
Rob,
I mounted my essential and primary fuse holders on the forward wall of
the front stick well. I chose the location because it is convenient to
both the battery and the instrument panel. I have a center stack for my
avionics, so the panel wires run up the sides of the center stack.
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com
RV-4 wings mounted, installing systems
>
>I am currently wiring my RV-4 and would like some idea's on mounting
>the fuse
>panel.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
who
Have a good day!
Denny Harjehausen
RV-6 Fuselage
Lebanon, OR
le squeezer
yoke that will reach all of the rivets on the narrow ends of the RV
control surfaces.
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com
RV-4 wings mounted, installing systems
>
>The rivets in question are the last 4 tight ones. I even
>have the no set on my sqeezers.
>
>Mike Comeaux
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Brown <kbrown(at)stellcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut..... |
Here's a correction to my own post from last Friday!
Maybe Bob could do a FMEA analysis of the (aging and faulty) electrical
equipment located between my ears.
Man, is my face red.
>
>At 10:38 AM 10/10/97, you wrote:
>
>
>> Let's try an ON-LINE FMEA (failure mode effects analysis). Over the
>> next 24 hours, I'd like for people to post their response to the following
>> questions:
>>
>> (1) Name one item of electrical equipment critical to safe completion
>> of flight . . . or an item who's failure presents an immediate
>> hazard to completion of flight.
>
>Magneto Switch. I don't know enough about the Electronic Ignition systems
>that are available, but I assume that a switch failure there could also
>cause problems.
This part is OK.
>
>>
>> (2) List the ways in which this device or system might fail.
>
>The switch could fail in such a way that one or both magnetos are no longer
>grounded. Or it could also fail in such a way as to cause an intermittent
>connection to ground. Lastly, it could fail closed (welded contacts).
No problem here.
>
>>
>> (3) How will each of these failures become obvious to the pilot.
>
>With the intermittent or open switch, the engine would run rough with a
>partial loss of power or a complete loss of power. Rough running engine
>could cause damage to cowl, engine mount, exhaust system, etc.
Of course, a CLOSED (welded shut) switch would cause a complete loss of power.
>
>Not an inflight situation, but on the ground a magneto switch with welded
>contacts would cause a mag to be "hot" all of the time. A dangerous
>situation that would not be obvious to the pilot at all.
Oooops! The mags would be HOT if the switch failed in the OPEN position.
The grounding of the mags prevents them from generating the voltage needed
to fire the spark plugs. When the magneto switch closes, it grounds the
magneto.
Sorry for the confusion - a hurried review of this post before heading out
the door on Friday afternoon did not uncover what is so very obvious this
Monday morning.
Thanks to Wendell (WBWard(at)AOL.COM) for pointing out my errors in a private
email to me.
-K-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
> Well I'm up to the point of riveting the last four rivets
> in top & bottom of rudder any suggestions?
2 ways:
1) lay the end of the rudder on a slab of steel such as a back-rivet
plate, get a long thin bucking bar or just a piece of steel thin enough
to fit in the tip of the rudder, lay the bucking bar so that one end is
on the shop head side of the rivet, whack it with a hammer just outboard
of the skin.
or
2) Beg, borrow or steal a thin-nose squeezer yoke.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mauser(at)claris.com (Richard Chandler) |
John Denver died in a plane crash off the California coast. That's what I
heard this morning on the news. Apparently he was in a homebuilt, because
when I turned on CNN Headline News, they ran a report on homebuilts right
after the story about John Denver. Surprisingly, it was a very positive
report, stressing that the people building the kits put a lot of care into
their construction and that the government inspects them before they're
allowed to fly. They compared it to flying getting back to its roots. It
also featured a couple of shots of flying RV-4's.
--
Richard Chandler
RV-6: Garage bought and being finished, saving for tools and tail kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
mcomeaux wrote:
>
> The rivets in question are the last 4 tight ones. I even
> have the no set on my sqeezers.
>
I used the no-hole yoke on my squeezer but had to flex :) the skins a
little.
Also there is no shame in using pop rivets.
--
Greg Young
Citabria N90AV
RV-6 s/n 23070 skinning fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Stretcher/Shrinker Needed |
RV-4 builder interested in borrowing(for a fee) or purchasing a metal
shrinker/stretcher tool.
Michael Wylychenko
673 Cessna St.
Independence, Or. 97351
503-838-4987
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Need more clecoes |
Bill --
I wanted to make sure I had thanked you for your note. One of the
guys replied and said he had purchased enough for an entire RV, but
then bought a quick build. I figured it made more sense to buy from
someone who had extra before purchasing from a normal supplier.
I'll save your note, though, so I can reference if I find out I don't
have enough clecos.
Thanks.
-Joe
>
> >>I need to buy more clecoes, particularly silver (wing skins). I =
> figured
> >>I would see if anyone on The Net had any they wanted to part with =
> before
> >>sending an order off to Avery.
> >>
> >>I'll probably get 200 or so -- can never have enough, it seems.
> >
>
> We gots lots of clecos, but not too many silvers! Check th auto
> responder for info: tools(at)pdsig.n2.net
> Send email to infobot(at)pdsig.n2.net for a directory of other interesting =
> stuff!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Peter Bice <pbice(at)tpd001.dp.tpd.dsccc.com> |
help
end
skins a
>little.
>Also there is no shame in using pop rivets.
>--
>Greg Young
I did the flex trick as well, but still had to do a little creative grinding on
the back of the no-hole yoke to get it to fit. I learned my lesson on the
rudder and didn't put the last rivits on the elevators quite so far back.
Come to think of it, I'm not sure very many of my tools haven't been to the
grinder at least once to get them to fit some weird place :).
Scott Fink
RV6 Left wing skeleton nearly complete.
--IMA.Boundary.963487678
SMTP
-0700
(firewall-user@prometheus-gate.Microchip.COM [198.175.253.129]) by
titan.Microchip.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA23658 for
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by netcomsv.netcom.com (8.8.5-r-beta/8.8.5/(NETCOM v1.01)) id PAA27327;
>Received: by matronics.com (4.1/SMI-4.1)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:41:13 -0500
From: Greg Young <cs-sol.com!gyoung(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rudder
--IMA.Boundary.963487678--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Ernst" <ernstrm(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | RV builders' group in Chicago |
I recently moved (back) to Chicago and am looking for an RV builders'
group. I heard that there is a group that
meets at Clow, which is pretty close to my office. Please e-mail responses
to me at: ernstrm(at)ix.netcom.com
Thanks
Rick Ernst
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Insurance coverage |
| From: | jepilot(at)juno.com (J E REHLER) |
I am in the process of renewing the insurance coverage on my RV6A and the
following data is offered to the group for comparison purposes. `
Insurer: Avemco
Liability coverage (property and bodily injury claims): $200K each
person, $500K property, $1,000,000 each accident. Premium cost $458
per year.
Aircraft Damage, excluding in flight coverage: $55,000 insured value,
premium cost $423 per year.
Total premium cost $881 per year . The "in flight coverage" exclusion
for aircraft damage begins when power is applied for take-off and ends
when the plane is landed safely and has left the active runway under
control. So no coverage is available for damage to the aircraft during
this interval. A bad landing or takeoff including, of course, any
emergency landing is at my risk for any damage to the plane but of course
the liability coverage remains effective (liability coverage is always in
effect so long as I or another person approved in advance by Avemco is
the pilot).
I maintained full damage coverage for the first year while I was
becoming familiar with the plane. The original plan was to cancel the
in flight portion after I felt comfortable with the plane and receive a
partial reimbursement for the premium reduction but I never did it. This
partial cancellation plan was discussed in advance with Avemco and they
had no problem with it since any insured can cancel or change the
coverage at any time. I figured that I was more likely to prang it
during the first 50 hours and if I had I would have been fully insured.
Luckily nothing bad happened in this regard. I suppose that now having
dropped the in flight coverage Murphy's Law or a corollary thereof will
come into play with a flat tire or something untoward occurring during
take off or landing bending the prop, etc. Gads
This new coverage has a $300 deductible for aircraft damage (which
doesn't apply in many circumstances such as a total loss). I also asked
for a quote with a $1,000 deductible and the premium was reduced only
$23 per year. The policy is based on the plane being hangered and my
being a member of EAA.
J. E. Rehler RV6A Corpus Christi, Texas (finally drying out, l6.3
inches of rain at my house during 3.5 days)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
I have been reporting on my cooling problem. Well, this is the next to
final installment, I hope. When I first got this engine running, the
threads where the oil temp sensor screws into the screen housing were
cross threaded and would leak slightly while it was running so, using
this big ol' brain of mine, I removed the housing and replaced it with a
housing off my other engine. This other engine didn't have the
vernatherm in the oil screen housing so when I asked a mechanic if i
could use the housing without that gizmo in it he said "Sure, that is
just an oil screen bypass valve that lets oil by if the screen gets
clogged up". So, I have been using it all this time with a cooling
problem. I was down in New orleans Sunday to borrow a prop from Frank
Smith (several rv's and trophies for them), and when we got on the
subject of cooling problems I told him about the housing and he showed
me all the pieces and parts that I need in order for the cooler to
work. Gee, it looks as though it needs a vernatherm in order for oil to
flow through the cooler. With all this talk about a vernatherm, I
though it worked like a thermostat in a car, gets hot and opens. Frank
showed me how it gets hot and closes a hole to force oil throught the
cooler. I got all the pieces to get mine going correctly as well as a
warnke 70x72 prop to try as long as I want. Rv people are a pretty good
bunch. I feel pretty stupid about causing this problem for myself but,
at least I think I learned something. I can't wait till Monday to try
it all out. I am really looking forward to seeing 180 temps, and faster
cruise speeds. I have done split ss's (lookout spelling police) and a
bunch of rolls. I guess I need to do some spins before I try the
loops. Still having fun. Thanks to everyone for all advice and
concern. Michael.
________________________________________________________________________________
glastarnet(at)insync.net, kitfox(at)lists.sni.net, europa(at)avnet.co.uk
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut.....but... |
| From: | unick(at)juno.com (Nick Ugolini) |
When I wired my LongEZ, I followed Bob's advice (through personal
discussions with him and his book). I used with FUSES. I loved the
result.
I have talked with aviation shops and found breakers to be highly
unreliable in their protection ability. Conversely every one said a fuse
pops exactly when it is supposed to. I have a bag full of "aviation
brakers" I picked up for wiring my plane and they are still setting on
the shelf.
I elected to go with the B&C fuse block... a 10 and 20 for a total of 30
fuses and their ground strip (I think it has 40+, 1/4" spade push on
connections. The fuse blocks are very small and are located in the nose
of the plane well out of reach.
I have ONE breaker for the alternater field which is "accessible to the
pilot" as required by the FARS for a IFR plane.
I have EVERY single circuit fused. Each selenoid, each radio, gear warn
circuit, the little LEDs for the fuel level lighting, even the instrument
pannel light circuit has its own fuse, and I still have spare fuse
holders. If for some reason I lose a circuit I have got a REAL problem,
and I only lost one circuit, not a bunch of things all hooked up to one
breaker which is how you typically wire a plane.
Think about it, when was the last time you blew a fuse in your car?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Where to mount fuse panel |
On 11 Oct 97 at 0:45, aol.com!RobHickman@matronics. wrote:
> I am considering putting a resesed Recessed tray in the center of my panel
> (where the artificial horizon and directional gyro would go ) to hold my
> Garmin 195 does any one have any thoughts on this?
>
I did it, and I like the result. Poor quality picture is at
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a/panel.htm
I built a little box that goes behind the GPS opening in the panel.
The part of the yoke mount that attaches to the GPS 195 is screwed to
the back of the box. The side of the box is left open so that I can
reach the yoke mount knob from behind the panel to remove the GPS
without removing the GPS box. Works OK so far, but I'm a long way
from flying the plane.
Tim (breakers) Lewis
------------------------------------
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or
timrv6a(at)iname.com
------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate |
The "accessible breaker vs inaccessible fuse" debate is interesting
to watch, and Bob Nuckoll's articles have had an impact on how I
designed my electrical system (RV-6AQ, panel mostly done). I don't
agree with everything Bob advocates, but he provides a lot of good
food for thought.
It seems to me there are three main arguments in favor of
inaccessible fuses:
1. A fuse panel is cheaper than a bunch of breakers.
2. A blown fuse/tripped breaker usually means something is very
wrong, and you won't be able to fix it in flight (so design the
panel so nothing on it is flight critical)
3. You can kill yourself fiddling with breakers in flight when you
should be flying the airplane.
My opinions on the arguments:
1. True. But the difference is so small that in the overall cost of
an RV it really doesn't matter. For example my RV has 13
breakers. Most of them came from Chief at a unit cost of $12.50.
That's a total cost of $162.50. Peanuts.
2. I agree with the philosophy of providing a backup system for
truly flight critical systems where ever possible. Having done
that, I still consider it worthwhile to provide myself with the
option of attempting to restore the primary system if the breaker
pops. It is usually true that one won't be able to restore a
tripped circuit in flight, but it's not always true. Circuits with
intermittent problems may be restorable in flight, and I submit that
it's worthwhile to provide the pilot with the opportunity to see if
that's possible. For example:
2a. My old Grumman developed an intermittent short in the panel
lights one night while I was IFR. I used a flashlight to get to VFR
on top, swapped the fuse, and had the panel lights for the rest of
the flight. It was very nice to have the whole panel illuminated,
even though I had a backup system (the flashlight). I was glad that
I had the OPTION to replace the fuse. My RV design includes a
small eyeball light as a backup to the panel lights, but in my
opinion it is still worthwhile to have the panel light breaker within
reach so I can try recycling it if needed. Cost is minimal,
potential convenience is high.
2b. My RV panel has a single KX-155 with glideslope. I have a
semi-permanently installed ICOM handheld (Comm and VOR) in the plane
as well. If there's an intermittent short that takes out the KX-155
I loose my ILS capability, but I still have Comm and VOR
capability from the ICOM. I believe it's worth the effort to wire
the system so I have the OPTION to try to bring the radio back on
line in flight to restore my ILS capability. One can argue that this
isn't likely to happen. That's true, but it's worth $12.50 to me to
provide me the OPTION to attempt a reset. (One can argue that I
should have a second ILS, but I'm not that rich.)
2c. Bob has recommended using an off-the-panel 70 amp fuse in the
alternator circuit rather than a circuit breaker on the panel. I
almost went that route, until Bob wrote me the following email a
month ago:
> I've had a couple of readers report blowing of the 70-amp
> fuse when thier (sic) 60 amp alternator comes on line and works
> hard to recharge a dead battery. Most alternators will
> put out better than rated current when they are cold. I'm
> going to up size my fuse kits to 80 amps. The fuses are on
> order. Your dimmer is built and ready to ship.
Bob had done the best design work he could, he proposed a design
that a lot of people adopted (me included), and it turned out to
have an unexpected problem. Unexpected things can happen in
aircraft systems, and I believe in providing myself with the MOST
options possible (breaker resets included), not the FEWEST
possible (fuses out of reach, so live with the problem until
you land). I've changed my design to include a breaker for the
alternator output. It's a whole lot easier to reset the
alternator breaker rather than having to replace a 70 (or 80) amp
fuse that's been intentionally removed from the pilot's reach.
3. It is true that you can kill yourself by piddling with breakers
when you should be flying the airplane. I believe that problem is
best solved by training, not by changing the aircraft design so that
the pilot can't even reach his circuit protectors.
In conclusion, I believe accessible breakers are a good way to
provide circuit protection. They don't cost much more than a hidden
fuse block, and they give the pilot the option to troubleshoot if
pilot workload permits and the situation warrants it. I believe the
decision whether or not to troubleshoot an electrical problem during
a particular flight should be the PILOT'S decision, not the
DESIGNER'S decision.
Tim Lewis
B.S. and M.S., Electrical Engineering
(with nowhere near the practical experience Bob Nuckolls has)
------------------------------------
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or
timrv6a(at)iname.com
------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Diehl <ddiehl(at)silverlink.net> |
I recently bought an RV-4 from a 6 foot pilot. I'm very short in the
torso so have to build a new seat about 5" higher than is now in the
airplane.
I planned to use Temperfoam but have not been able to find it locally.
Confor is a similar product but minimum sizes make the cost prohibitive.
Does anyone know of a source for either product in the Puget Sound area?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Mack" <donmack(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Looking at avionics and engines |
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001D_01BCD827.02E334A0"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BCD827.02E334A0
charset="iso-8859-1"
I am about halfway through my 6A fuselage and am starting to look at =
avionics and engines.
My goal is a basic VFR plane, no vacuum, no gyros. Only "luxury" items =
are a panel mount GPS with map, fuel flow and egt . I have not really =
kept up with what is out there. Right now I fly a cub where a luxury =
item is a fuel wire with a good cork. =20
For flying, like to be able to do x-countries in comfort, with some mild =
acro now and then. I am leaning to 180hp with CS prop.
I am interested in what flying planes have done, what their original =
goals were and what they would do different. For all the current =
builders, their goals and planned equipment.
Please email me directly. If there is interest, I will be glad to post a =
summary of what I receive.
Don Mack RV-6A Fuse
donmack(at)flash.net
http://www.flash.net/~donmack
------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BCD827.02E334A0
charset="iso-8859-1"
I am about halfway through my 6A =
fuselage and am=20
starting to look at avionics and engines.
My goal is a basic VFR plane, no =
vacuum, no=20
gyros. Only "luxury" items are a panel mount GPS with map, =
fuel flow=20
and egt . I have not really kept up with what is out there. Right now I =
fly a=20
cub where a luxury item is a fuel wire with =
a good=20
cork.
For flying, like to be able to do x-countries in =
comfort, with=20
some mild acro now and then. I am leaning to 180hp with CS =
prop.
I am interested in what flying planes have done, =
what their=20
original goals were and what they would do different. For all the =
current=20
builders, their goals and planned equipment.
Please email me directly. If there is interest, I =
will be glad=20
to post a summary of what I receive.
Don Mack RV-6A Fuse
donmack(at)flash.net
http://www.flash.net/~donmack<=
/FONT>
------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BCD827.02E334A0--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)meridium.com> |
Hello from Roanoke VA everyone!
I am new to the RV builder arena having just placed an order for an
RV-6A tailkit.
I was wondering if anyone had recommendations on getting the tools
necessary to compete this.
I talked to Vans and they recommended Cleveland and Avery, but in
searching your archives I found some very
discouraging words about Avery (ATS). I really want to buy from them
though because they seem to cater more to
the RV builder with their RV Basic and RV Advanced tool kits.
Also, I know at some point I will need a bandsaw and drillpress but...
Do I need these for the tail construction? Are they really necessary or
just nice to have?
I really just want to build the tail and then after that consider if I
should go whole hog and build the rest.
Are there any other tools I should consider?
I have watched the Ornoff videos and he appears to use a lot of tools
that are not included in the Avery list.
Thanks in advance for any help to my query,
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------
Gary Fesenbek
gfesenbek(at)meridium.com
540-344-9205 ext 112
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Slider installation sequence |
I went to Copperstate and saw your post this morning when I came back.
Sorry I missed you. I too would like to know if the identifier was stillborn
or ???
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>Any listers besides myself going to Copperstate? We gotta' come up with
>some type of identifier...did anything ever happen with a pin or shirt
>or....?
>
>Regards,
>
>Rob Acker (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Fill rivets before painting? |
Spoke to the owner/builder of a beautiful Harmon Rocket this past weekend
at Copperstate who had filled all the rivet heads on his airplane. He
started with a 1 quart can of filler (maybe 1 - 2 pounds?) and threw half of
that away when he was done filling. After sanding the bondo flush before
painting he probably had 1/2 - 1 pound of filler on the airplane.
His airplane won an award at Osh this year for workmanship.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
>>But seriously, few people do this. For one thing, it adds unnecessary
>>weight. I have also heard that EAA judges also look unfavorably on
>>metal airplanes that have been filled.
>>
>I happened to talk to a judge who was looking at an RV with filled rivet
>heads at Oshkosh, and he was definitely against the practice. In addition
>to weight, he thought that the filler would eventually come loose.
>
>
>Alan Carroll
>RV-8 #80177 (Wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
Is the RV net working? Or is no one talking?
Have a good day!
Denny Harjehausen
RV-6 Fuselage
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Irwin" <pcpms(at)leadbelt.com> |
I've been thinking the same thing for a couple days now. Glad to see a few
feeds today. Something must have happened, because I can't believe 30-50
messages a day suddenly went to 0-4/5.
----------
> From: Denny Harjehausen <proaxis.com!harje(at)matronics.com>
> Is the RV net working? Or is no one talking?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate |
Hi,
When arguments develop between qualified persons (Bob Nuckolls and Tim Lewis in
this case) as to which is better, my advice (as a professional engineer) is that
it really doesn't matter. Flip a coin. Excercise whim. Two independent pros
say either way is ok. It is another Ford vs Chevy or Nosewheel vs Tailwheel.
With the breakers vs fuses case, Bob points out that fuses are cheaper. Tim
says that the cost of breakers compared to whole airplane is peanuts. I suggest
that everything is peanuts. Just as you trim weight from your airplane an ounce
at a time, trim costs pennies at a time. This is how products are designed for
factory production. The choice is that which fully meets the requirements.
minimum cost is one of the requirements. If fuses and block cost 10% of
breakers, that is very significant.
Save your money for the three strobe lights.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Auto engines on MWF, Lycomings on TTS
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Newbee! |
| From: | tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com (John T. Craig-Stearman) |
Welcome, Gary.
Congratulations on your purchase. Just one note: Avery is very
different from ATS. They are two different companies. I have heard of
many problems with ATS, but none with Avery. I bought most of my tools
from Avery. You will never go wrong with either Avery or Cleveland.
Both sell very high-quality tools. Avery sells a starter tool kit that
should be adequate to build the tail. I heartily recommend Avery's own
rivet squeezer with interchangeable heads. You will need one head with
squeezer set holes on both sides, and one low-profile flush-riveting
head. You probably can get through the tail without a band saw or drill
press, but will need both eventually. Good luck on your project, and
post any questions here to the list.
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com
RV-4 wings mounted, installing systems
>
>I am new to the RV builder arena having just placed an order for an
>RV-6A tailkit.
>
>I was wondering if anyone had recommendations on getting the tools
>necessary to compete this.
>I talked to Vans and they recommended Cleveland and Avery, but in
>searching your archives I found some very
>discouraging words about Avery (ATS).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Newbee! |
>but in
>searching your archives I found some very
>discouraging words about Avery (ATS). I really want to buy from them
Gary,
Avery is not ATS. They're different companies. Avery has great tools and
is good to business with. ATS has inferior tools, especially dimple dies.
>Also, I know at some point I will need a bandsaw and drillpress but...
>Do I need these for the tail construction? Are they really necessary or
>just nice to have?
You could probably get by without a drill press on the new kits. I guess
you could get by without at band saw as well, although I'd sure hate to give
mine up. You don't need anything fancy in band saws. I've got a three wheel
Delta that's been used on 3 projects. I use a 14 tpi, 1/4" blade and use
cutting fluid (for aluminum, LPS cutting fluid-Aircraft Spruce.) A light
bead of cutting fluid down the cut line will make the blades last
considerably longer.
>Are there any other tools I should consider?
>I have watched the Ornoff videos and he appears to use a lot of tools
>that are not included in the Avery list.
Check the archives, the FAQs and watch the list and you'll get an idea of
some other tools you will "need" (or want, to be honest).
A couple of my favorites: pneumatic squeezer & hand held belt sander (to
replace files).
Bob Skinner Buffalo, WY RV-6 380 hours bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Insurance coverage |
>
>Aircraft Damage, excluding in flight coverage: $55,000 insured value,
>premium cost $423 per year.
>
>Total premium cost $881 per year . The "in flight coverage" exclusion
>for aircraft damage begins when power is applied for take-off and ends
>when the plane is landed safely and has left the active runway under
>control. So no coverage is available for damage to the aircraft during
>this interval. A bad landing or takeoff including, of course, any
>emergency landing is at my risk for any damage to the plane
I didn't follow what was covered in the hull portion. They would
pay if the plane wasn't damaged while landing or takeoff at any
time or in the air? The airplane is covered only while not on the
active runway? How much was the full coverage, in case the engine
quits during the test, etc?
Have a good day!
Denny Harjehausen
RV-6 Fuselage
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scott <acepilot(at)mwt.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Newbee! |
Fesenbek, Gary wrote:
>
>
> Hello from Roanoke VA everyone!
>
> I am new to the RV builder arena having just placed an order for an
> RV-6A tailkit.
>
> I was wondering if anyone had recommendations on getting the tools
> necessary to compete this.
> I talked to Vans and they recommended Cleveland and Avery, but in
> searching your archives I found some very
> discouraging words about Avery (ATS). I really want to buy from them
> though because they seem to cater more to
> the RV builder with their RV Basic and RV Advanced tool kits.
>
> Also, I know at some point I will need a bandsaw and drillpress but...
> Do I need these for the tail construction? Are they really necessary or
> just nice to have?
>
> I really just want to build the tail and then after that consider if I
> should go whole hog and build the rest.
>
> Are there any other tools I should consider?
> I have watched the Ornoff videos and he appears to use a lot of tools
> that are not included in the Avery list.
>
> Thanks in advance for any help to my query,
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------> --------------------
> Gary Fesenbek
> gfesenbek(at)meridium.com
> 540-344-9205 ext 112
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------> --------------------
>
EH???? I don't think Avery is the same as ATS...I've NEVER heard a bad
thing about Avery. That's who I'll be dealing with when I get the shop
finished up and ready to start the -4.
Scott
--
Gotta Fly or
Gonna Die !
--Ask me about my
Aeronca Super Chief--
amended 8-29-97: Now after feeling the "Need for Speed", building an
RV-4!
No, the Super Chief is NOT for sale :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Newbee! |
Fesenbek, Gary wrote:
> I talked to Vans and they recommended Cleveland and Avery, but in
You're going to get tons of responses to this... in short: Avery and ATS
are different companies. Cleaveland and Avery are the good guys and ATS
is... well, they're not.
--
Greg Young gyoung@cs-sol.com
Citabria N90AV
RV-6 s/n 23070 skinning fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Pace <wbpace(at)adnc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: 120 VS 220 Volt Compressor |
Bob,
As others have stated, I would definitely go with 220V. I found that at
110V, if I caused the motor to quite (like accidently turning it off), then
it will not immediately restart by just turning the switch back on. It
probably couldn't immediatly overcome the pressure it built up in the
compressor head. Also, if I used it while my wife was ironing clothes or
using the vacume cleaner, the breaker would pop. Only a 15 amp circuit,
you know.
I converted the 220V clothes dryer plug to a 20 amp socket and rewired the
compressor. Never had a problem since.
Sears sells a conversion kit with complete instructions for about $25 from
their parts catalog. I coaxed my Sears salesman to copy the instructions
for me and I bought the parts from Home Depot for about $10. Be sure to
get a metal clad male plug, the plastic ones don't hold up to abuse (like
being dropped on the floor).
Hope this helps.
Bill Pace
Sear's Best Customer (their tools salesmen love me!)
Wings in jigs
wbpace(at)adnc.com
>
>I have an opportunity while rewiring the garage, to put in a 220 V circuit.
> What if any, are the advantages to converting my 120/220 Sears Craftsman
>oilfree compressor to 220 volts.
>
>The instruction manual states that it can be swithced, but it must be turned
>into a Sears authorized repair station to do this. I can't believe that I am
>allowed to wire my entire airplane, but I can't change the voltage on my
>compressor by myself.
>
>Thanks in advance for any help.
>
>Bob Busick
>RV-6
>RBusick505(at)aol.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Insurance coverage supplement |
| From: | jepilot(at)juno.com (J E REHLER) |
Regarding the Avemco insurance policy I reviewed for the RV list, I
failed to mention that the aircraft damage portion of the policy
including in flight coverage increased the premium to $1,268 from $423 (
an increase of $845 for in flight damage coverage). Put another way,
if I wanted full damage coverage of $55,000 at all times I would have to
pay $845 more per year, which I did for the first year of coverage as I
previously mentioned. J. E. Rehler RV6A Corpus Christi, Texas
(beautiful day, things drying our nicely).
________________________________________________________________________________
>Received: by skyld.grendel.com (5.65/1.2-eef)
| From: | grendel.com!info(at)skyld.grendel.com |
Thank you for sending e-mail to info(at)grendel.com.
Your request has been forwarded to a real person and
will answered as soon as possible.
Please do not reply to this messages as it will only
generate more copies of this message.
Again, thank you for your interest in our company.
----------- Your original message is below ----------
Fesenbek, Gary wrote:
>
>
> Hello from Roanoke VA everyone!
>
> I am new to the RV builder arena having just placed an order for an
> RV-6A tailkit.
>
> I was wondering if anyone had recommendations on getting the tools
> necessary to compete this.
> I talked to Vans and they recommended Cleveland and Avery, but in
> searching your archives I found some very
> discouraging words about Avery (ATS). I really want to buy from them
> though because they seem to cater more to
> the RV builder with their RV Basic and RV Advanced tool kits.
>
> Also, I know at some point I will need a bandsaw and drillpress but...
> Do I need these for the tail construction? Are they really necessary or
> just nice to have?
>
> I really just want to build the tail and then after that consider if I
> should go whole hog and build the rest.
>
> Are there any other tools I should consider?
> I have watched the Ornoff videos and he appears to use a lot of tools
> that are not included in the Avery list.
>
> Thanks in advance for any help to my query,
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------> --------------------
> Gary Fesenbek
> gfesenbek(at)meridium.com
> 540-344-9205 ext 112
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------> --------------------
>
EH???? I don't think Avery is the same as ATS...I've NEVER heard a bad
thing about Avery. That's who I'll be dealing with when I get the shop
finished up and ready to start the -4.
Scott
--
Gotta Fly or
Gonna Die !
--Ask me about my
Aeronca Super Chief--
amended 8-29-97: Now after feeling the "Need for Speed", building an
RV-4!
No, the Super Chief is NOT for sale :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Where to mount fuse panel |
| From: | ron.taborek(at)flight642.com (RON TABOREK) |
GPS MOUNTING
You suggested mounting your Garmin 195 in a recessed hole in your panel.
I recently made an extensive flight using the Garmin 195. While it
provides marvellous information, I found that when it was panel mounted
it was near impossible to see the screen if the sun was ahead or abeam.
I formed the opinion that the mounting should provide for two degrees of
rotation to allow the sun to hit the screen at the proper angle for
visibility. Have others had this problem? If so, how did you solve it?
ron.taborek(at)flight642.com RV-4 Installing O-320 Toronto
-> GPS mounting
->
-> I am considering putting a resesed Recessed tray in the center of my
-> panel (where the artificial horizon and directional gyro would go )
-> to hold my Garmin 195 does any one have any thoughts on this?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Murphy, Jr." <murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Newbee! |
ATS is not Avery! ATS is the acronynm for Aircraft Tool and Supply and they
are from Michigan. You'll find that hte quality of the tools from Avery is
first class and I'm sure that you'll be very satisfied with the tools and
the service from the company.
I found some very
>discouraging words about Avery (ATS). I really want to buy from them
>though because they seem to cater more to
>the RV builder with their RV Basic and RV Advanced tool kits.
>
>Also, I know at some point I will need a bandsaw and drillpress but...
>Do I need these for the tail construction? Are they really necessary or
>just nice to have?
>
I found the drill press to be useful in fabricating the HS 610 and HS 614
pieces. I tried to do them with out using a drill press but ended up having
to order replacement parts for them.
Good Luck on your construction.
Ray and Nancy Murphy
murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us
RV6A empenage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KOZINSKI GARY <kozinski(at)symbol.com> |
| Subject: | Bolt Torque Specs |
Does anyone have bolt torque specs for AN6 botls? These are the engine
mount AN6-24 and AN6-30 bolts. I don't have them on my list. Send
direct or to the rv-list....thanks....Gary RV-6 20038
kozinski(at)symbol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Messinger <paulm(at)tenforward.com> |
glastarnet(at)insync.net, kitfox(at)lists.sni.net
| Subject: | Re: Europa_Mail: Re: COZY: Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut.....but... |
Dean Arthur wrote:
>
> cdenk(at)ix.netcom.com wrote:
> >
> > Nick Ugolin writes > unreliable >
> > Murphey's Law will prevail, what can go wrong, will go wrong. One of the main
failure modes
> > of fuses is vibration with the little wire breaking. I have replaced more than
my share of
> > glass cylindrical fuses on autos, trucks, and farm equipment wher there was
no electrical
> > fault. Just replaced the fuse, and worked for years. Also I usually have dropsy
in flight
> > and in turbulence at night I would anyday go for the circuit breaker. I have
replaced 1 in
> > 500 hours.
> >
> > Carl Denk: "cdenk(at)ix.netcom.com"
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > The Europa List is supported by Aviators Network UK - info(at)avnet.co.uk
>
> Capture a fuse block from newer American design cars using plastic fuse
> plug with "Z" shaped fuse link. NO CHANCE of those suffering vibration
> breakage. The amount of vibration required would most assuredly shake
> the plane to pieces first!
I agree that it's not vibration here that is the primary cause.
The typical failure mode in fuses is a result of the slight heating and
cooling between power on/off cycles and the lead alloy just finally
separates. Fuses work by the heat generated by the excess current
melting the lead alloy. There is less heat but still some under normal
conditions. This fuse failure mechanism is seldom addressed in fuse -
circuit breaker comparisons. The "Z" fuses are better than the glass
tube design in this respect.
I personally would never use a fuse in an acft. Nor would I put a fuse
or CB where I could not reset it in flight. If the related equipment was
not important to some mode of flight then it does not belong on the acft
in the first place! Resetting the CB has saved me and the acft from harm
three times in my 40 years of flying experience. BTW FAR 23.1357 (d)
requires cockpit resetable (replaceable) Fuses/CB for "critical to
flight equipment".
Paul
Aeronautical and Electronic engineer
EAA Technical Counselor
Commercial, Inst., CFI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bolt Torque Specs |
>
>Does anyone have bolt torque specs for AN6 botls? These are the engine
>mount AN6-24 and AN6-30 bolts. I don't have them on my list. Send
>direct or to the rv-list....thanks....Gary RV-6 20038
>kozinski(at)symbol.com
In my Standard Aviation Maintenance Handbook has the following;
AN-6 (3/8"-24, 40,000psi) and AN310 nut is 160-190 inch-pounds
Same except rated at 90,000 psi is 390 inch-pounds.
Have a good day!
Denny Harjehausen
RV-6 Fuselage
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Messinger <paulm(at)tenforward.com> |
glastarnet(at)insync.net
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate |
Epplin John A wrote:
>
> Paul writes:
>
> > I agree that it's not vibration here that is the primary cause.
> >
> > The typical failure mode in fuses is a result of the slight heating
> > and
> > cooling between power on/off cycles and the lead alloy just finally
> > separates. Fuses work by the heat generated by the excess current
> > melting the lead alloy. There is less heat but still some under normal
> > conditions. This fuse failure mechanism is seldom addressed in fuse -
> > circuit breaker comparisons. The "Z" fuses are better than the glass
> > tube design in this respect.
> >
> >
> [Epplin John A]
> Agreed. In the days of large rotary inverters, some fused as
> high as 300 amps, the maintenance procedures usually called for a
> periodic replacement of these large fuses. On the Grumman G1, these
> were in a junction box located in a closet. I had the cover off once
> when the inverter was started. The fuses have a transparent cover over
> the element which allowed the red glow to be visible. This explained
> why they were to be replaced periodically. I think that the rotary
> inverters would be about the worse case torture to fuses, however even
> incandescent lamps have a short term inrush current far higher than
> their steady state value.
>
> Now, does anybody know why we have fuses or breakers in the
> first place? The answer is to protect the wiring, not the device on the
> end of it. Circuit protection should be sized for the size wire,
> regardless of the device on the end of it. The connected device should
> have any protection that it needs on its own. Lamp bulbs are sort of
> self protecting, motors may have a overheat switch, most electronic
> equipment has some sort of current limiting devices inherent in their
> design...etc..
>
> There are a few limited applications that should not be reset in
> flight, one that is common is combustion heaters. I hear the arguments
> of accessibility, but my personal feeling is these should be in flight
> resettle or replaceable, except in very few special applications. Also,
> except for very high current devices which are not likely to be found on
> the type of aircraft discussed here, I prefer a good quality circuit
> breaker that can be manually opened in flight.
>
> The above discussion is worth exactly what you are paying for
> it.
>
> John epplin Mk4 #467
John I agree with you, in particular with the "real purpose" of the
breaker and also the "manual open" type of breaker. It is the only kind
that I use and recommend. In many cases use of this type of breaker can
eliminate the usual switch and combine both into one device. Consider a
circuit that is typically always on. Why have a switch when this manual
open breaker can provide both functions? Just leave it on all the time
and you still have the capability to open the circuit if needed. There
are even breakers with a bat handle for frequent on/off action.
I am well aware with Bob's positions' on various subjects and agree with
some and disagree with others. I firmly believe there are many good
solutions to an issue and think differing opinions should be accepted
with out the usual heat and smoke sometimes found.
I have yet to meet another A&P, FAA rep, or EAA Tech coun. that agrees
with Bob on remotely located fuses. That doesn't make his opinion wrong,
just different than my data base and personal position.
When I was on active duty in the USAF, we saved an average of one
mission a month by being able to reset the breaker and continue. A
couple of times a year this ability saved the acft. As you can see, I am
biased based on real experience (USAF and 3 personal cases in civil
acf), and all the numbers games in the world will not change my mind.
Sure breakers trip when they shouldn't, and they are "on paper" less
reliable than fuses. But I never heard of one totally failing open when
the downstream device was good.
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bolt Torque Specs |
>Does anyone have bolt torque specs for AN6 bolts? These are the engine
>mount AN6-24 and AN6-30 bolts.
Gary,
From 43.13: For tension nuts: 160-190 inch pounds.
Bob Skinner Buffaolo, WY RV6 380 hours bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)meridium.com> |
| Subject: | Important, Please Read! |
Thanks for letting me know. I didn't know what was going on.
-----Original Message-----
From: dralle(at)matronics.com [SMTP:dralle(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 1997 1:20 PM
To: rv-list-admin(at)netcomsv.netcom.com;
zenith-list-admin(at)netcomsv.netcom.com
Subject: RV-List: Important, Please Read!
510-606-1001)
RV and Zenith Listers...
There has been a problem with the Internic's advertisment of the
matronics.com
domain. This problem has been resolved, but the domain will not
be reactivated
matronics.com will
*bounce* and will not be queued.
Interestingly, I can still send email out, but there is no
incoming mail
allowed at this time.
Also affected by the domain problem are the Matronics Web and
FTP servers.
Please do not respond to this message as *it will bounce*.
Sorry for the inconvenience!
Matt Dralle
RV and Zenith List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA |
94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com
Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For
Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
This is a test to see if the RV-list is working yet.
------------------------------------
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or
timrv6a(at)iname.com
------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anthony Self" <CHEVY_TRUCK(at)classic.msn.com> |
I'm still on the fringe. I've been planning and saving up for a RV6/A and I am
trying to get all the info I can before ordering the tail kit. Have any of you
guys been to Avery's two day metal working class in Dallas? Is it worth the
$250 or should I use that money to just by tools and learn as I go? One other
question, have any of you bought any products from Belted Air Products? I am
intrigued by the use of the aluminum Chevy V-6.
Anthony Self
RV6/A, starting soon!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <crazer(at)egyptian.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Avery School |
Take the class, if you don't know the basics of metal work it will save
you more than the cost of the class in beginning mistakes. If you do
know metal work it's still worth the investment.
--
Chet Razer
crazer(at)egyptian.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Maurice Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
Hi all. I'm just days away from recieveing my tailkit, and I'm wondering
about primers. I had a few people recommend the Sherwin Williams GBP
Self Etching, as it comes in spray cans, and it's fairly cheap. I did
some research, and Sherwin Williams says the primer is not a moisture
barrier, and it needs to be sealed to be %100 effective. He said that if
the plane will be hangered, there should be no problems, but planes kept
outside or in humid climes should be sealed. I'm curious as to what the
rest are using? Any advice on sealers?
Maurice Colontonio
Cherry Hill, NJ
RV-8 Tail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net> |
Maurice Colontonio wrote:
> Hi all. I'm just days away from recieveing my tailkit, and I'm wondering
>
> about primers. I had a few people recommend the Sherwin Williams GBP
> Self Etching, as it comes in spray cans, and it's fairly cheap. I did
> some research, and Sherwin Williams says the primer is not a moisture
> barrier, and it needs to be sealed to be %100 effective. He said that if
>
> the plane will be hangered, there should be no problems, but planes kept
>
> outside or in humid climes should be sealed. I'm curious as to what the
> rest are using? Any advice on sealers?
Maurice--
First off, welcome to The List. Next, search the archives for all your
primer needs. People on the List seem to be just a bit touchy about the
subject, since everybody has an opinion and it's been beaten to death!
I settled on the Sherwin Williams self-etching primer, too. It suits my
needs well. Thanks to a tip on the List about the primer also coming in
spray cans, I've saved myself lots of mess mixing the stuff up for the
small parts. Pretty handy stuff. Does it protect as well as some
others? I'm not sure I care. Alclad does a pretty good job all by
itself in the spam cans. Read the archived opinions and decide what
works best for you.
Hope that saves you some heat.
Good luck!
--Don McNamara
8 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
>
>Hello from Roanoke VA everyone!
>I was wondering if anyone had recommendations on getting the tools
>necessary to compete this.
>I talked to Vans and they recommended Cleveland and Avery, but in
>searching your archives I found some very
>discouraging words about Avery (ATS). I really want to buy from them
>though because they seem to cater more to
>the RV builder with their RV Basic and RV Advanced tool kits.
Gary,
ATS is Aircraft Tool Supply and they are not very highly thought of by RVers.
( With good reason!) I have purchased many tools from Avery AND Cleveland
and it is my experience that you would be VERY hard pressed to find better
tools or better companies to by them from! I will ask that you don't
overlook Cleveland Tools as I have had a lot of discusions with Mike and he
has never steared me wrong about a tool. Avery has been very honest and
helpfull also. (By the way that Drill Doctor that Cleveland sells is
unbelievable ! I have several very expensive drill bit sharpeners but
nothing compares to that Drill Doctor.) I would say that a flip of a coin
is probably the best way to choose which of those two you order from. Al
RV-6 Columbus, Ohio
(As an added note, I have a bunch of pneumatic airtools and other aircraft
building tools for sale but I have decided to only sell them to people who
come and look at them and try them out. So if your near Columbus, Ohio give
me a call...(614) 890-6301)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
At 04:11 AM 10/16/97 UT, you wrote:
>
>I'm still on the fringe. I've been planning and saving up for a RV6/A and I am
>trying to get all the info I can before ordering the tail kit. Have any of you
>guys been to Avery's two day metal working class in Dallas? Is it worth the
>$250 or should I use that money to just by tools and learn as I go?
One of the reps from Van's Aircraft was at our meeting last night to address
some new and just interested builders. Your question was asked, the answer
that was given was that "Van's has quit offering the school because
of the simpicity of new kits. We recommend you find a builder or
builders group that shares information and put your money in the
extras you want to buy." I took Van's school in 1992. I enjoyed
the school but I believe I could have attained the same level of
help by spending a day helping a fellow builder. But that was just
one school. I have gotten lots of help from going to our builders group,
some other fellow builders that are little ahead of me and some good advise
right here on the net by reading every thread, good or bad. It has make me
think about things ahead of where I am on my project. Like Van's people say
"by the time you finish the tail section you will have accomplished most of
the mistakes in assembly and riveting, now it is just a matter of repeating
them mistakes in some other section." :^)
Have a good day!
Denny Harjehausen
RV-6 Fuselage
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com (Paul M Bilodeau +1 +1 732 957 6611) |
Sorry to use my "r" key but return mail to moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
failed....
Maurice,
I have also just discovered Sherwin Willams' GPB primer. I found a
local distributor (Howell, NJ) for the primer but won't be able to get
there until next weekend and ask more questions about sealing the stuff.
If you get any information on a sealant, please forward.
Thanks.
Paul M. Bilodeau
pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com
732-957-6611
RV-6A Empennage
Ready to prime H. S. with good weather and some time.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Hurray! I think it is . . . .
Good morning Tim! What are you doing up at 4 a.m.?
Bob . . .
>
>This is a test to see if the RV-list is working yet.
>
>------------------------------------
>Tim Lewis
>N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023
>San Antonio TX
>timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or
>timrv6a(at)iname.com
>------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
Kindest regards,
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Denman <mikedenman(at)earthlink.net> |
It would seem, in response to my last question about shunts, that when
given a choice a remote shunt is better than an internal shunt. The
question today is, what size shunt? Bob Nuckolls has said (I hope I
have this right or apoligies to Bob) that a 100 amp shunt is "better"
than a 50 amp shunt in that it prevents the amp meter needle from
hitting the limit peg too hard during max. charging conditions damaging
the needle.
Sounds reasonable, but I plan on using an Electronics International
digital Amp/Volt meter... no needle, no peg. Is there an electronic
"needle and peg" in this instrument that needs to be protected? Is the
100 still preferred over the 50 amp shunt? Any input would be
appreciated.
Mike Denman
RV6
Different subject... Breakers vs. fuses.....I am suprised that the
pro-breaker builders haven't advanced the biggest single advantage of
circuit breakers over fuses. That advantage is, of course, a large
circuit breaker that has popped can turn your wiring harness into a
nice cabin heater when reset after popping. A another benefit is that
you have a built in smoke generator for airshow performances.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)meridium.com> |
Anyone know of any good suppliers of used tools, ie. Pneumatic squeezer?
Gary Fesenbek, Getting my RV-6A tail kit today
Roanoke, VA 24014
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Hartmann <hartmann(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . |
.Yeahbut.....but...
>
>I have ONE breaker for the alternater field which is "accessible to the
>pilot" as required by the FARS for a IFR plane.
>
I couldn't find this reqirement in the FARs, and did not intend to install
such a breaker. Do you have a reference?
Thanks
- Mike
hartmann(at)sound.net
http://www.sound.net/~hartmann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <r.acker(at)thegrid.net> |
| Subject: | Control Stick Grips |
At Copperstate, I saw a military style control grip that I liked on an RV-6
(black, large 4-way coolie hat, two pushbuttons and one trigger switch,
symmetrical for
comfortable operation in either hand) . Turns out it was sourced from
Stoddard-Hamilton, as used on the Glastar prototype.
A call to them revealed they wanted $241 for one grip...that's
a...well...plain ripoff. Anybody know a cheaper source for this, or a
similar, grip (SH says they come from New Zealand)? I have pictures I can
e-mail if interested.
And thanks to everyone who answered to my slider installation sequence
questions...helped out a lot.
Rob (RV-6Q)
Rancho Santa Margarita, California
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Hartmann <hartmann(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Newbee! |
>I talked to Vans and they recommended Cleveland and Avery, but in
>searching your archives I found some very
>discouraging words about Avery (ATS). I really want to buy from them
Van's recommended Cleaveland or Avery because they are the BEST! You can't
go wrong with either of them. The quality of their tools and their customer
service is first class.
ATS is NOT Avery, in fact, if you were looking for the exact opposite in
terms of quality of tool or customer service ATS is close.
If you need the right tool at a fair price and you want it right away, call
Cleaveland or call Avery. If you want a tool that might get the job done
once or twice before falling apart or wearing out, and you don't need it for
a few weeks, and you just have to try to 'save' that few dollars, call ATS.
If you'd like to deal with people who understand RVs and what tools you need
to build them, call Avery or Cleaveland.
- Mike
hartmann(at)sound.net
http://www.sound.net/~hartmann
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Newbee! |
>
>
> Hello from Roanoke VA everyone!
>
> I am new to the RV builder arena having just placed an order for an
> RV-6A tailkit.
>
> I was wondering if anyone had recommendations on getting the tools
> necessary to compete this.
> I talked to Vans and they recommended Cleveland and Avery, but in
> searching your archives I found some very
> discouraging words about Avery (ATS). I really want to buy from them
> though because they seem to cater more to
> the RV builder with their RV Basic and RV Advanced tool kits.
>
Oh boy, I can see it coming now:
100 posts saying ATS and Avery are not the same. (P.S. buy Avery)
50 posts saying they bought ATS tools and they are all a piece of junk.
25 posts saying Avery is better than Cleveland.
25 posts saying Cleveland is better than Avery.
5 posts saying read the FAQ.
3 posts saying read the Yeller Pages.
1 post saying they bought a tool from ATS and it is excellent.
Oh -- and 10 posts saying make sure all of your tools are protected
with fuses and/or circuit breakers.
And that doesn't even cover the comments on bandsaws and
drill presses!!!
Doug Medema with only a very small smile!!!
RV-6A, fuse off jig.
(Note that I have no problem with the original poster. They are
certainly valid questions from a Newbie.
Maybe we could get one or two designated people to respond to
these type of questions and everybody else hold off unless they
don't see a response for several hours!?)
------------- End Forwarded Message -------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Rebuilder recommendation |
I've mentioned before that I chose Lycon to overhaul my IO320-B1A. For
those of you outside the Southwestern USA, Lycon is one of the most
highly-respected overhaulers in the area. I am fortunate that they are
right accross town at Falcon Field (FFZ) in Mesa, Arizona. I have several
good friends with Lycon-overhauled engines and they are very happy with
them. Lycon does first-class work.
The other day I was starting on the engine baffling and discovered that I
had lost one of my Lycoming inter-cylinder baffles. That's a shnme because
those things are not cheap. Yesterday I visited Lycon and said, "Do you
have a used Lycoming inter-cylinder baffle I could buy?". Dean went into
his parts room, came out with one, and said "no charge".
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
RV-6 sn 23744 N601DB
cowling & baffling
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Hartmann <hartmann(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Europa_Mail: Re: COZY: Re: The great breaker |
debate . . .Yeahbut.....but...
>three times in my 40 years of flying experience. BTW FAR 23.1357 (d)
>requires cockpit resetable (replaceable) Fuses/CB for "critical to
>flight equipment".
FAR 23.1357 (d), like the rest of FAR part 23, does not appear to apply to
RVs which operate with experimental certificates.
I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but there has been a lot of recent
discussion about how a thing HAS to be done that isn't supported by
regulatory requirement. These are experimental aircraft operating with
experimental certificates. Some requirements for normal/utility category
aircraft may be good ideas for experimentals, but that doesn't make them
mandatory. Next thing you know we'll be putting in lighted exit signs and
emergency slides.
The point of the fuse/breaker 'debate' was originally that good design would
eliminate single point 'critical' failure modes which would allow the use of
whatever circuit protection was lightest, cheapest, and most reliable.
If you are aware of another FAR that overrides FAR 23 applicability and
specifically causes portions of it to apply to our experimental aircraft,
please advise. I learn best when I'm shown to be wrong.
- Mike
hartmann(at)sound.net
http://www.sound.net/~hartmann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bumflyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Avery School |
Boy am I glad you asked this question. This will allow me to get another
great debate going. I love them. No doubt Will go down in flames for
starting it (as Usual). Most un philosophical listers want to read only tips
on what primer to use. Me I love these philosophical discussions.
I have not been to Avery's school. I have been doing business with him for
five and a half years, and can vouch for his being the kind of person you
want to do business with.
You ask two questions. On the first, is it worth $250? I am sure it is,
knowing Avery. Also based on helping a lot of builders over the past few
years, I can say most could have benefitted a lot from such a school. I
think it would have saved me a year. On the second question, as to whether
you should spend money to save time or use it to buy more airplane parts?
Please enter this piece of data (observation) in to your considerations.
Almost all builders start out wanting to save money. Then they go through
the phase of wanting to improve performance. Lastly we want to speed up the
building process. At the five year point I finally realized I could have
saved a lot of time and frustration if I had spent more on education and
tools in the very beginning.
You absolutely can probably build an RV without the school, just like you
absolutely can build it without a band saw or an Avery dimpling tool. It
just takes longer and isn't as much fun for most people.
On the other hand if you are not most people and you really enjoy pain and
frustration, you can build the kit with a pair of pliers, a hack saw, and
figure out how to drive rivets with a claw hammer and some sort of chisel.
The trouble with RV builders is they will not fit either extreme of the
examples which your questions have evoked. If someone won't want to endure a
long building program, they will buy a ready made. If they want to build for
10 or twenty years, they will build a plans built plane.
Every RV builder I've met has a different mix of impatience and penurious
ness. Some look down their noses at those who don't make their own
upholstery or hire someone else to do their paint job, or wiring etc..
Take your best guess at where you fit in and go accordingly. Van's kits can
accommodate a wide range of personalities and pocket books.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Nothing on the rv-list |
I have not gotten any thing on the rv-list for the past three days. Is anyone
else having this problem? Just got a reply on the WHO and I am on the list.
Installing the baffles on the IO-320 on my RV-4. Bruce B. Bell, Lubbock,
Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
*** snip ***
>I had a lot of riveting tools from doing some cowling work on my Piper Colt.
> I had gotten the tools from ATS a couple years ago.
>
>After having to replace all the ATS junk with Avery tools, I can advise you
>to avoid the ATS stuff. Of course this has been well documented in the past.
*** big snip ***
>Mark McGee
>RV4 Empennage
RV Guys and Gals,
... while I would agree with the quality of tools from ATS, I have
found ATS to be useful for purchases of drill bits and reamers. They seem
to have all sizes and lengths in stock of the correct types for aluminum.
I have talked at our EAA chapter about the basics of drilling holes,
and am still amazed at the number of builders who do not know that drill
bits come in different types and "angles", and what you buy at the hardware
store is usually NOT what is best for drilling aluminum.
Spend a little extra up front and buy drill bits from a good
insdustrial supply source that are "split point" and have a 118 degrees
grind angle. These will work much better in aluminum sheet and are less
like to slip off the mark as you start drilling -- the 118 degrees grind is
a 'pointier' (technical term ...:^) than the standard 135 degree drill bit.
Buy pilots drills (I like #50) and buy some drills in 6 inch and 12 inch
lengths for getting at those awkward hole locations. For soft aluminum, I
have found no real advantage in buying exotic cobalt or similar drills, and
just get High Speed Steel (HSS).
The _main_ sizes needed for RV building are:
#50 ... good pilot drill size
#41 ... 3/32 dimpled rivet holes
#40 ... 3/32 rivets into thick metal (such as longerons)
#30 ... 1/8 rivet holes
#19 ... #8 screw holes
#12 ... AN3 bolt holes
D ... AN4 bolt holes
These 7 sizes will drill > 99.5% of all RV holes. For nicer fitting
bolt holes, drill #13 for AN3 and 15/64 for AN4 and then ream out to #12
and 0.0249 respectively.
One other tip ... I like to buy 6 inch #41 drills for basic skin
drilling, and cut them down to about 4 inches length. I found this extra
length over the standard 'jobbers' short length makes it easier to hold the
drill at 90 degrees to the work, getting a more accurate hole and less
likely hood of slipping while drilling.
... again ... ATS is OK for drill bits and reamers ...
... Gil (the right bits make better holes) Alexander ...
EAA Technical Counselor, Chapter 40, Northridge, CA
------------------------------------
RV6A, #20701, finishing kit
"REPLY" sends to entire RV-list
mailto:gila(at)flash.net to reply privately
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tmoradia(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Fwd: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: matronics.com: |
host not found)
I was talking to our local EAA chapter tech counselor regarding steel parts
of
the empenage. He recommended CAD plating. There is a local plating shop
here
in West Los Angeles that does quality work. There is a minimum charge. If
any one is interested please let me know. We can group them together and
save
money. This might be beneficial only to the folks in southern Califonia,
once
you factor in shipping.
Thanks,
Tony Moradian
RV-8 empenage #80398
N100TM reserved
e-mail: tonym(at)enviroaqua.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CHRIS.BROWNE(at)bge.com |
I just ordered a bunch of tools from the Yard a few minutes ago, but
he was out squeezers. He has alot of other used tools, though - guns,
drills, etc. 1-800-888-8891
Chris Browne
RV-6A Emp next month
______________________________ Forward Header _____________________________
_____
Subject: RV-List: Used Tools
Date: 10/17/97 11:16 AM
Anyone know of any good suppliers of used tools, ie. Pneumatic squeezer?
Gary Fesenbek, Getting my RV-6A tail kit today
Roanoke, VA 24014
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | the trouble with media . . . |
>I usually spend the next hour telling them how 43 people get killed
>in a bus crash in Canada yet the interrogator sees no danger in
>meeting a bus head-on on a narrow, winding road but sees great danger
>in flying. Asked my 100+ criminal law students yesterday: "How many
>of you have heard of the Hindenburg?" Surprising, *all* of them not
>only raised their hands, but many of them could tell me that 36
>people died in the crash of the Hindenburg.
>
Sure . . . and it isn't JUST media coverage. We do it to ourselves
consistently. AIRSHOWS . . . geeze I wish we'd just quit doing
them. You get a bizillion people to pay good money to get in
and watch pilots do absolutely crazy things in the sky, trail
lots of smoke and make lots of noise. Certainly some in the crowd
are quietly wishing to witness a real munch of some kind . . . .
Then all of those folk go home totally oblivious of the fact
that only .1% of the "little" airplanes do that and the pilots
are quite professional. But when they drive by a grass strip
with a few raggy airplanes tied down, the image of their last
airshow visit pops to mind.
There's a growing movement in this part of the country to REVISE
our fly-in agendas. I attended three this summer that were technical
support fly-ins only. No open-to-the-public paid admissions to come
watch any sort of "show". The public was sure invited (along with
their kids for Young Eagles rides) and they might have to pay to
attend the forums but the whole event was pure airplane business.
With by NOT inviting EAA, we avoided the booths with preserved
aligator heads and Christmas tree decorations, along with rocket-powered
Peterbuilts. By not inviting DareDevil Joe, we avoided the FAA.
All-in-all a quiet, fun, informative weekend that probably returns
more on investment to promote amateur-built aviation than anything
else we could do. Watch our website for these events to show up
again, and I hope many others with the similar goals.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut.....but... |
>
>
>I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but there has been a lot of recent
>discussion about how a thing HAS to be done that isn't supported by
>regulatory requirement. These are experimental aircraft operating with
>experimental certificates. Some requirements for normal/utility category
>aircraft may be good ideas for experimentals, but that doesn't make them
>mandatory. Next thing you know we'll be putting in lighted exit signs and
>emergency slides.
>
>The point of the fuse/breaker 'debate' was originally that good design would
>eliminate single point 'critical' failure modes which would allow the use of
>whatever circuit protection was lightest, cheapest, and most reliable.
>
>If you are aware of another FAR that overrides FAR 23 applicability and
>specifically causes portions of it to apply to our experimental aircraft,
>please advise. I learn best when I'm shown to be wrong.
>
Mike, an excellent point . . . I've considered bringing it up but
prefered to keep the emphasis on design merit as opposed to requirements.
As much as I rail about regulation, people might think I'm anti-FAA
when in fact, I believe there are functions of public interest wherein
the government
has a legitimate service to perform. My criticism of the FAA is not unlike
my that due the IRS . . . these organizations have been allowed to grow
simply because that's what organizations do . . . grow or die. The return
on investment for the FAA's original efforts has been great. Now that all
the GOOD rules are in place, there's too many folk with time on their hands
making silly rules and harrasing people because it's their job, they're
doing
exactly what we hired them to do.
Thanks for bring it up.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <r.acker(at)thegrid.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: matronics.com: |
host not found)
> I was talking to our local EAA chapter tech counselor regarding steel
parts
> the empenage. He recommended CAD plating. If any one is interested
please let me >know. We can group them together and save money.
Tony,
Gil visited me as well . Count me in.
Rob Acker (RV-6Q)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lauritsen" <clevtool(at)tdsi.net> |
The product you are looking for is Conforfoam. One company markets it
under the name Temperfoam. Another calls it Aerofoam. Only one company
makes it. It is expensive. It is heavier than other foams.
It does change with temperature. Multi layers of it can become very
uncomfortable in cool weather since you body heat would not warm the lower
layers. I have found a lower base of very high density - for support -
high resilientcy - for comfort - with a 1" layer of conforfoam on top makes
a very comfortable seat.
I order conforfoam in 1"x30"x72" sheets and can cut to any size. The
product is not widely available in auto or furniture upholsterers. If I
can be of help call or E-mail.
Since you are building up your seat quite a ways you may want to add a
metal (or other firm material) seat riser. Be sure to make it higher at
the front than at the back to provide a comfortable seating angle. I would
be happy to share plans for such to give you an idea of one way to
accomplish this.
Thanks,
DJ Lauritsen
Cleaveland Aircraft Tool
2225 First St.
Boone, IA 50036
1-800-368-1822
clevtool(at)tdsi.net
http://www.cleavelandtool.com
----------
> I planned to use Temperfoam but have not been able to find it locally.
> Confor is a similar product but minimum sizes make the cost prohibitive.
>
> Does anyone know of a source for either product in the Puget Sound area?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fixed or tail dragger |
Some of you might be interested in my experience in trying to
decide between the 6 and the 6A. I'm ex-airforce (Canada), with
zero taildragger time (not counting a couple of back-seat rides).
I decided to ask a couple of former air force friends with plenty
of taildragger time. One's running an ag operation in Saskatchewan
now, and the other is lead pilot of a formation team flying Extra
300s (the Northern Lights--excellent show, by the way). The
consensus? None! The ag pilot said, "Get the nosegear.
Tailwheels are a pain in the neck." The Extra pilot said, "No
choice. Get the taildragger."
What's a guy to do? These are both excellent pilots whose
opinions I respect. In the end, I'll probably choose with my
heart, which means taildragger.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re:circuit breakers |
This comment should generate some flames leading to yet more smoke!
Mike Wills
RV-4(wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
> That advantage is, of course, a large
>circuit breaker that has popped can turn your wiring harness into a
>nice cabin heater when reset after popping. A another benefit is that
>you have a built in smoke generator for airshow performances.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
Hi all & esp Gil A.,
Gil says,
These 7 sizes will drill > 99.5% of all RV holes. For nicer fitting
bolt holes, drill #13 for AN3 and 15/64 for AN4 and then ream out to #12
and 0.0249 respectively.
#50 ... good pilot drill size
#41 ... 3/32 dimpled rivet holes
#40 ... 3/32 rivets into thick metal (such as longerons)
#30 ... 1/8 rivet holes
#19 ... #8 screw holes
#12 ... AN3 bolt holes
D ... AN4 bolt holes
Thanks Gil - we need more of the basic info on some of the construction tasks.
About drilling holes... Like most of the specs on the dwgs, there are no
tolerances for holes. However, Van recommends a #12 for some 3/16 (AN3) bolts
for "a snug fit". It looks to me like a 3/16 th bit would be snugger and a #13
even more so (memory here!). So why a #12? Wherever is a sloppier fit needed?
Also, I didn't see anywhere about using #41 for the -3 rivets where dimpled.
Have I missed something?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Control Stick Grips |
Rob,
There's a guy in my EAA Chapter who makes stick grips and markets them
under the company name of Infinity Aerospace. They usually advertise in
Kitplanes, etc.. Dont know if its what you are looking for, and dont know
about price either as I am not far enough along to have to worry about a
stick grip yet, but you might give him a try. Located down the road from you
in the San Diego area.
Mike Wills
RV-4(wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
>At Copperstate, I saw a military style control grip that I liked on an RV-6
>(black, large 4-way coolie hat, two pushbuttons and one trigger switch,
>symmetrical for comfortable operation in either hand) . Anybody know a
>cheaper source for this, or a similar, grip .
>Rob (RV-6Q)
>Rancho Santa Margarita, California
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HinkleyC(at)fca.gov |
| Subject: | Re: Control Stick Grips |
* * * * The views expressed in this EMail are my own and do not represent
the policy or position * * * *
* * * * of the Farm Credit Administration. * * * *
Rob,
The control stick you are looking for is from Infinity Aerospace. Cost is
about $150.00. They have a web site at
http://www.flash.net/~infaero/, phone # 619-448-5103 (CA).
Curtis Hinkley
RV-8 N815RV reserved
CHink11769 @ aol.com
hinkleyc(at)fca.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Newbee! |
I have used avery tools for two years know and had no trouble
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Lewman <lewman(at)wt.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Control Stick Grips |
Rob,
Try Infinity Aerospace, the latest "Sport Aviation" has an ad in the
misc. section of the classifieds. It shows their web address as:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/INFINITY_Aerospace
I have seen their display at Oshkosh and the grips looked very good.
Jim Lewman
Houston
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Control Stick Grips |
Robert Acker wrote:
>
>
> At Copperstate, I saw a military style control grip that I liked on an RV-6
> (black, large 4-way coolie hat, two pushbuttons and one trigger switch,
> symmetrical for
> comfortable operation in either hand) . Turns out it was sourced from
> Stoddard-Hamilton, as used on the Glastar prototype.
>
> A call to them revealed they wanted $241 for one grip...that's
> a...well...plain ripoff. Anybody know a cheaper source for this, or a
> similar, grip
Rob--
At Oshkosh this summer I stopped by a booth that was hawking
military-style stick grips. I grabbed the info and have it at home, so
I can't tell you the name yet. I'll post it when I find it.
It was styled like an F-4 grip, but only 80% the size--ostensibly to
accomodate a non-gloved hand. It looked a bit chintzy, but the info
that I picked up proclaimed the high quality of the switches, etc. The
salesman also told me that they were coming out with a throttle quadrant
that would have all kinds of switches, buttons and gizmos on it.
Perfect for the slats, brakes, afterburner, IFF and other goodies I plan
to incorporate into my 8. ;)
I'll post the info for all to see if I remember to bring it to work.
--Don McNamara
8 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donald DiPaula <dipaula(at)access.digex.net> |
| Subject: | deciding between RV-4 and RV-8 |
i had thought i was pretty much decided to make an RV-8, but now i'm having
second thoughts. i thought i might bounce some of the conflicting reasons
off others who have gone through the same processs to see how much my
expectations of different advantages or disadvantages of each match up with
reality...
RV-4:
much prettier. i like the cheek cowling, bubble canopy, and swept-back
landing gear; they look the way i think a plane should. i expect the
bubble canopy might give better all-around visibility as well.
better climb rate, shorter take-off and landing distances, and better fuel
effieciency at cruise for typical engine (160 hp @ 55% ~= 6.5 gph).
lighter = more maneuverable?
lots of experienced -4 builders here and elsewhere to consult with questions.
RV-8:
lower drag: higher top speed for same power engines.
higher power engines available (200 hp).
pre-punched empennage, preassmbled wing spar. (i have no metalworking
experience.) this is the single factor that tilts the most in favor
of the -8.
bigger fuel tanks, longer range.
more headroom, legroom, and elbow room for both pilot and passenger.
higher seating: better view over front for takeoffs/landings? i'm 6'1".
cockpit ventillation system available so i don't broil.
can carry bigger payload (100 lb. luggage vs. -4's 30 lb.)
the cost difference is likely to be about $3500 or so from van's, if i plan
on using a 160 hp engine in either case. a preassembled phlogiston wing spar
for the -4 reduces the price difference by $825, to about $2700 (increases
the -4 price by $825). but, i'm tempted to go with a stronger engine
(180 hp?) if i get the -8 because of the plane's greater weight. that would
blow the prices wider by several thousand dollars.
then again, if cost was the deciding factor, i'd just go out and buy a used
plane, which would almost certainly be a lot less than the $30k-$40k i expect
to spend on this project.
i'm also not sure the pre-punched empennage on the -8 makes much of a
difference to anything other than initial confidence and some drilling time.
after all, plenty of people with no experience have built great -4s, right?
the best option would be to locate several -4s and -8s with different engines
and get rides in them to see how they really differ; but to the best of my
knowledge, the only -8s flying are the prototypes in oregon. for some things
(like visibility over front for takeoffs/landings, pilot/passenger weight,
roominess, etc.) it's probably a wash; i'm a little on the tall/thin side, so
i don't expect i'd _need_ the extra height or width of the -8 cockpit.
projected use: i'm about to move to tucson. i would like to be able to fly
back (with my daughter when she's a little older) to see my parents in
maryland, which is 2400 miles by car, probably less by air. that's about
3 full tanks on the -4, maybe 2.5 tanks on the -8, at least 3 hops in either
case. (i'm still in maryland now). also, one of my brothers is about to move
to california, i'd like to fly out to visit him occasionally. other than
that, mostly recreational flying, including some basic aerobatics (no
competition or anything hardcore like that).
any insights or advice to help me make a good decision on this would be
appreciated.
-D-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Control Stick Grips |
I used a stick grip from Wag Aero for $29.95 each, that has a military feel
to it and is very nice looking for the money. Can be drilled for ptt buttons,
etc.
Von Alexander
N107RV
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Huffaker <huffaker(at)utw.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Control Stick Grips |
On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Don McNamara wrote:
> At Oshkosh this summer I stopped by a booth that was hawking
> military-style stick grips. I grabbed the info and have it at home, so
> I can't tell you the name yet. I'll post it when I find it.
>
> It was styled like an F-4 grip, but only 80% the size--ostensibly to
> accomodate a non-gloved hand. It looked a bit chintzy, but the info
> that I picked up proclaimed the high quality of the switches, etc. The
> salesman also told me that they were coming out with a throttle quadrant
> that would have all kinds of switches, buttons and gizmos on it.
> Perfect for the slats, brakes, afterburner, IFF and other goodies I plan
> to incorporate into my 8. ;)
>
One source that nobody seems to be considering is computer joystick
makers. Thrustmaster makes a F-4 stick that works quite well (I think it
is 100% size) Many users complain that the TM springs are a bit stiff,
but you wouldn't be using those. There are many varieties with lots of
switch combinations. Price is about $80 or so (IIRC). Don't know if the
swithces are as relaiable, but mine have lasted several years of lots of
games with no problems (CM Products). Just an alternative low cost
source. Personally, I am planing on hand carving a wood grip with just a
PTT and trigger (for guns :) )
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (huffaker(at)utw.com)
President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
RV-8 80091 Duburring wing skins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Control Stick Grips |
Re: My last posting--
Everybody else has posted the correct info. Forget what I said and
check out the web page.
--Don McNamara
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shaun Maki <ee(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Used Tools ... Wrong Number??? |
Hi Chris,
I think 1-800-888-8891 is a wrong number as when I called the nice lady
she did not know what I was talking about when I asked about a used 2X
rivet gun. Interested in seeing what the Yard has - please reply to the list
with the right number if you have it. Thank you for your time,
- Shaun Maki
>
> I just ordered a bunch of tools from the Yard a few minutes ago, but
> he was out squeezers. He has alot of other used tools, though - guns,
> drills, etc. 1-800-888-8891
>
> Chris Browne
> RV-6A Emp next month
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: deciding between RV-4 and RV-8 |
>the best option would be to locate several -4s and -8s with different engines
>and get rides in them to see how they really differ; but to the best of my
>knowledge, the only -8s flying are the prototypes in oregon. for some things
>(like visibility over front for takeoffs/landings, pilot/passenger weight,
>roominess, etc.) it's probably a wash; i'm a little on the tall/thin side, so
>i don't expect i'd _need_ the extra height or width of the -8 cockpit.
D,
The only way I see to solve your dilemma is to go to Vans' and fly both the
4 and the 8, place your order, and then go down and visit your brother.
Call it a vacation and be sure of your reasons for which-ever one you
choose. only you can make the distinctions that are pertinent to your
requirements. Al
(Nice vacation and small price to pay in the overall cost.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BARNES_ERIC(at)tandem.com |
| Subject: | THE YARD 800-888-8991 TOOLS |
________________________________________________________________________________
transposed.
EB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: deciding between RV-4 and RV-8 |
Donald--
Yeah, 4 vs 8 is a tough choice. Being 6'1" myself, I fill up a 4
cockpit to the brim. Not much headroom. Then the 8 came along. When I
first sat in it, Tom Green (about 7'-something!) looked at me and said,
"You're not big enough for this plane. You should look at a 4."
Hmmmph! (Tom would probably deny this allegation.)
I've flown both now. I'm building an 8. I made the right choice for
me. Personally, I'm not ecstatic over the looks of either one. I'd
love to be building a Mustang kit. Maybe someday.
Performance is basically equal. I've flown a 4 with a 180hp/CS combo,
and the eight won't do any better than that.
Go with what floats your boat.
--Don McNamara
8 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE THE RUDDER BOTTOM REMOVABLE. WHAT SIZE SCREWS, NUTPLATES AND
DIMPLES WOULD BE NEEDED FOR THIS LOCATION.
WAYNE FEGGESTAD
RV-6 TAIL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <r.acker(at)thegrid.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Control Stick Grips |
> > At Copperstate, I saw a military style control grip that I liked on an
RV-6
> > (black, large 4-way coolie hat, two pushbuttons and one trigger switch,
> > symmetrical for comfortable operation in either hand)
Wow! I get back from lunch and there's a whole slew of responses . All
the referrals so far are for non-symmetrical grips though.
For interested listers, Hyperion makes a downsized F-4 grip (RH only) for a
fraction of Infinity's price ($35 vs. $150). Check out
http://baste.magibox.net/~eracer/hyperion.htm. They are sending me a test
unit to determine suitability for the RV series, I'll post my findings to
the list.
Rob (RV-6Q)
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Used Tools ... Wrong Number??? |
________________________________________________________________________________
THE YARD 800-888-8991 TOOLS
The yeller pages is a great resource. Everyone should download a
copy or keep a link to the url around.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Control Stick Grips |
I have a couple of new military surplus stick grips I'll sell for $50
each. These are fighter jet style grips with a trigger and a PTT switch
(no coolie hats though). They are set up for the right hand, with the
PTT under the thumb, although you might be able to modify them for right
hand.
I'll take a picture and have it on my web site next week. Check
<http://www.edt.com/homewing/classifieds.html> on Monday.
Any interested parties please email me off-line at randall(at)edt.com, or
call me on the phone.
Randall Henderson
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
(503) 690-1234 w
(503) 297-5045 h
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
> I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE THE RUDDER BOTTOM REMOVABLE. WHAT SIZE SCREWS, NUTPLATES
AND DIMPLES WOULD BE NEEDED FOR THIS LOCATION.
Wayne:
I imagine #4 or #6 screws/nutplates would do, probably 2 1/2" centers.
Cleveland sells a wingtip nutplate installation kit with #4 screws and
nut plates, if you got this kit you may have enough left over to do the
rudder bottom, or maybe just see if Cleveland would provide you with a
"rudder bottom kit".
Randall Henderson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Control Stick Grips |
> I have a couple of new military surplus stick grips I'll sell for $50
> each. These are fighter jet style grips with a trigger and a PTT switch
> (no coolie hats though). They are set up for the right hand, with the
> PTT under the thumb, although you might be able to modify them for right
> hand.
Oops -- I meant to say "you might be able to modify them for the LEFT
hand."
Randall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Control Stick Grips |
>Robert Acker wrote:
> At Copperstate, I saw a military style control grip that I liked ... >Anybody
know a cheaper source for this, or a similar, grip...?
Try Infinity Aerospace
P.O. Box 12275
El Cajon, CA 92022
(619) 448-5103
Jack Abell
Los Angeles, Calif.
RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: deciding between RV-4 and RV-8 |
>
>any insights or advice to help me make a good decision on this would be
>appreciated.
Get the RV-6
Tom Velvick
rver(at)caljet.com
RV-6 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelli Lewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Control Stick Grips |
>Anybody know a cheaper source for this, or a similar, grip...?
>
>Try Infinity Aerospace
> P.O. Box 12275
> El Cajon, CA 92022
> (619) 448-5103
I have one of the Infinity grips and think it is GREAT. It is for the right
hand but I have a -4 so it is exactly what I needed. NOT cheaply built. He
went through several plastic manufacturers before he got one he liked the
results of. 7/8 size military and VERY comfortable in the hand: seems just
the right size for my gloved hand. Having the switches right THERE to run
things is grand. I have mine wired to run the PTT, radio frequency change
and frequency flip-flop, landing and taxi lights......... Looks cool, too.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pam Hudson <phudson(at)broadvision.com> |
| Subject: | FW: jokes, for after lunch |
----------
From: Receptionist Distel[SMTP:fdeskd(at)broadvision.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 1997 9:57 AM
Subject: FW: jokes, for after lunch
----------
From: JodeenTN(at)aol.com[SMTP:JodeenTN(at)aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 1997 2:32 AM
Subject: Fwd: jokes, for after lunch
---------------------
From: WALLS2(at)ix.netcom.com
JodeenTN(at)AOL.COM, christin.berger(at)netmanage.com, bjelich(at)mail.bmf.com
Date: 97-10-10 11:56:38 EDT
------Begin forward message-------------------------
(8.7.5/SMI-4.1/Netcom)
From: "Shelly Firestone" <sfirestone(at)co.fairbanks.ak.us>
Subject: jokes, for after lunch
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 14:30:24 -0800
Poopie list,
ghost poopie: the kind where you feel the poopie come out, but there is
no poopie in the toilet.
clean poopie: the kind where you poopie it out, see it in the toilet,
but there is nothing on the toilet paper.
wet poopie: the kind where you wipe your butt 50 times and it still
feels unwiped, so you have to put some toilet paper between your butt
and your underwear so you won't ruin them with a stain.
second wave poopie: this happens when you're done poopie-ing and you've
pulled your pants up to your knees, and you realize that you have to
poopie some more.
pop-a-vein-in-your-forehead-poopie: the kind where you strain so much to
get it out, you practically have a stroke.
lincoln log poopie: the kind of poopie that is so huge you're afraid to
flush without first breaking it into little pieces with a toilet brush.
gassey poopie: it's so noisy, everyone within earshot is giggling.
corn poopie: self-explanatory
mixican poooie: it smells so bad your nose burns
The red neck jokes were funny. see ya
------End forward message---------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert J. Colunio" <albertjc(at)dreamscape.com> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com |
If everyone would get a copy of the spec's that are available at the paint
store where you buy your primer, you would see that almost everyone requires
a topcoat. This means that after you apply your selfetching primer you need
to paint a topcoat over it.
I may be wrong about some primers but most need a topcoat to be effective.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate |
----------
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 1997 6:51 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: The great breaker debate
For the most part, I agree with Tim's final analysis with a couple of
exceptions. For one, there is a real possibility of creating a more severe
problem (shorting out other wires, ignition of a flammable material, etc.) by
resetting a circuit breaker in flight. That should be a last ditch effort to
restore an item considered by the PIC to be absolutely critical to a safe
completion of the flight. Secondly, since we are the designers of the
electrical systems of our craft, it is our choice and responsibility as to
what options are provided to the pilot, be it us or someone else. As a pilot,
I'd like to be given that option, even with the risk involved.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ
In conclusion, I believe accessible breakers are a good way to
provide circuit protection. They don't cost much more than a hidden
fuse block, and they give the pilot the option to troubleshoot if
pilot workload permits and the situation warrants it. I believe the
decision whether or not to troubleshoot an electrical problem during
a particular flight should be the PILOT'S decision, not the
DESIGNER'S decision.
Tim Lewis
B.S. and M.S., Electrical Engineering
(with nowhere near the practical experience Bob Nuckolls has)
------------------------------------
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or
timrv6a(at)iname.com
------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GHLX34A(at)prodigy.com (MR GEORGE T KILISHEK) |
| Subject: | Re: Avery School |
msn.com>
>I'm still on the fringe. I've been planning and saving up for a
RV6/A and I am
>trying to get all the info I can before ordering the tail kit. Have
any of you
>guys been to Avery's two day metal working class in Dallas? Is it
worth the
>$250 or should I use that money to just by tools and learn as I go?
I did attend the Avery school (at Hicks Airport in Fort Worth) and
thought it well worth the money. I am reasonably handy, but had no
prior experience with aircraft sheet metal working. I reckon that
the skills I learned there shortened my learning curve considerably
and saved more than the cost of the course in scrap not made. I also
learned which tools I really needed, and which ones I could get by
without. That knowledge also saved me $ I would otherwise have spent.
Besides those things, I came away with a lot more confidence than I
would otherwise have had, which translated to less days spent looking
at a particular task and wondering if I should plunge ahead.
The Avery family are really nice folks, as are the Orndorffs, who
live just across the street.
Good luck.
George Kilishek
RV-8 #80006.
Wings and fuel tanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: the trouble with media . . . |
charset="iso-8859-1"
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <aeroelectric.com!nuckolls(at)matronics.com>
snip
> Sure . . . and it isn't JUST media coverage. We do it to ourselves
> consistently. AIRSHOWS . . . geeze I wish we'd just quit doing
> them. You get a bizillion people to pay good money to get in
> and watch pilots do absolutely crazy things in the sky, trail
> lots of smoke and make lots of noise. Certainly some in the crowd
> are quietly wishing to witness a real munch of some kind . . . .
snip
snip
> There's a growing movement in this part of the country to REVISE
> our fly-in agendas. I attended three this summer that were technical
> support fly-ins only. No open-to-the-public paid admissions to come
> watch any sort of "show". The public was sure invited (along with
> their kids for Young Eagles rides) and they might have to pay to
> attend the forums but the whole event was pure airplane business.
snip
Mr Nuckolls,
While I believe absolutely that you are entitled to your opinion and you
have every right to express it here, please indulge me a hearing of mine.
While you obviously dislike airshows, no one says you have to go. I
believe that airshows are the best and about the only way that we promote
aviation. Does anyone really believe that there would be nearly 2000 RV's
flying with out the Osh Kosh airshow? I don't know how you were first
exposed but my guess is that if you were not initially exposed to aviation
at an airshow, I'll bet someone who played a major role in your
endoctrination got their first taste at an airshow.
Some feel that aviation is an elite fraternaty that only those who seek us
out should to be allowed admission. I disagree, if the number of pilots
(read votes) continues to deteriorate we will lose the political battles
like 100LL fuel and aviation user fees. If we do not continue to recruite
new blood we will not have the coherent voices to answer the media types
when they ask the question, "What qualifications are required to build an
airplane?"
I agree that the pilot/builder only flyins are great activities. They are a
lot of fun and educational, however how will we bring new pilot/builders in
to the fraternaty if we check for a license at the door. Do you think a non
flyer will find these gathering interesting or inspiring? Many FBO's make
learning to fly a tedious task with a 250 hour wannabe commuter pilot. We
need to sell the sizzle in aviaition.
Give the public a break, They understand that most airplanes don't snap
roll on take off just as well as they understand that the family Ford will
not run around the Daytona track at 180 mph. The airshow industry is
starting to attract the attention of some major corporate money. This
industry looks like stock car racing did 20 years ago. There are many more
crashes at car races than have ever happened at airshows. Does that draw
the automobile industry into question? Do you think GM has considered
dropping it's NASCAR program because .01% of the drivers can really keep a
car on the track a 180 mph?
I will acknowledge that the airshow industry has some faults, however, most
airshows are run by volunteers. Most profits from airshows go to charity.
Most are community activities ran by the Chamber of Commerce. And most are
pretty well run and successful.
I fly in 10 to 12 airshows each summer. Sometimes when I am leaving home on
Friday, my desk covered with work that needs done, I think, why do I do
this? Why go stand in the hot sun with 120 aeroshell dripping on my new
nomex flight suit ($169.00)? Why sell hats and T-shirts or stamp dog tags
and eat cold bratwurst and drink warm beer. Sure as I think that, a 7 year
old kid will get in the seat of a B-25 and tell his grandpa that he wants to
be a pilot when he grows up. Or that same 75 year old grandpa sits in that
same seat and starts to talk to his teenage grandson about what that war was
about and then the tears come. One experience like that and I am recharged
for a whole season!
Maybe the sizzle of aviation is gone for you? If it is, I am truly sorry.
It is not like chicken pox, you can get it again :-)
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: Fixed or tail dragger |
Todd,
I only have about 300 hours td time, and another 1000 nose stuff. It
gets very boring in a trike when you become proficient at everything. I
felt like a dragger would give me a little more excitement, at least on
the landings. The rv tail draggers have really pretty lines when they
are sitting or moving around the tarmac. I can't speak for a 6-a as I
have never seen a finished one yet. No matter how boring a flight may
be, the landing always wake me up, at least on windy days. I made a
couple really ugly landings in my -4 last week, but it was so forgiving
it surprised me. I bounce a foot into the air 3 0r 4 times before I
stopped embarrassing myself. It was never a hard jolt either, just a
soft bouncing. It was my first 3 point landing on a windy day. I
guess it is more an emotional choice than a necessary one. Have fun.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: (Fwd) Re: The great breaker debate |
(I sent this during the rv-list malfunction period. I don't know if
it got out to the list members)
The "accessible breaker vs inaccessible fuse" debate is interesting
to watch, and Bob Nuckoll's articles have had an impact on how I
designed my electrical system (RV-6AQ, panel mostly done). I don't
agree with everything Bob advocates, but he provides a lot of good
food for thought.
It seems to me there are three main arguments in favor of
inaccessible fuses:
1. A fuse panel is cheaper than a bunch of breakers.
2. A blown fuse/tripped breaker usually means something is very
wrong, and you won't be able to fix it in flight (so design the
panel so no single circuit is flight critical)
3. You can kill yourself fiddling with breakers in flight when you
should be flying the airplane.
My opinions on the arguments:
1. True. But the difference is so small that in the overall cost of
an RV it really doesn't matter. For example my RV has 13
breakers. Most of them came from Chief at a unit cost of $12.50.
That's a total cost of $162.50. Peanuts.
2. I agree with the philosophy of providing a backup system for
truly flight critical systems where ever possible. Having done
that, I still consider it worthwhile to provide myself with the
option of attempting to restore the primary system if the breaker
pops. It is usually true that one won't be able to restore a
tripped circuit in flight, but it's not always true. Circuits with
intermittent problems may be restorable in flight, and I submit that
it's worthwhile to provide the pilot with the opportunity to see if
that's possible. For example:
2a. My old Grumman developed an intermittent short in the panel
lights one night while I was IFR. I used a flashlight to get to VFR
on top, swapped the fuse, and had the panel lights for the rest of
the flight. It was very nice to have the whole panel illuminated,
even though I had a backup system (the flashlight). I was glad that
I had the OPTION to replace the fuse. My RV design includes a
small eyeball light as a backup to the panel lights, but in my
opinion it is still worthwhile to have the panel light breaker within
reach so I can try recycling it if needed. Cost is minimal,
potential convenience is high.
2b. My RV panel has a single KX-155 with glideslope. I have a
semi-permanently installed ICOM handheld (Comm and VOR) in the plane
as well. If there's an intermittent short that takes out the KX-155
I loose my ILS capability, but I still have Comm and VOR
capability from the ICOM. I believe it's worth the effort to wire
the system so I have the OPTION to try to bring the radio back on
line in flight to restore my ILS capability. One can argue that this
isn't likely to happen. That's true, but it's worth $12.50 to me to
provide me the OPTION to attempt a reset. (One can argue that I
should have a second ILS, but I'm not that rich.)
2c. Bob has recommended using an off-the-panel 70 amp fuse in the
alternator circuit rather than a circuit breaker on the panel. I
almost went that route, until Bob wrote me the following email a
month ago:
> I've had a couple of readers report blowing of the 70-amp
> fuse when thier (sic) 60 amp alternator comes on line and works
> hard to recharge a dead battery. Most alternators will
> put out better than rated current when they are cold. I'm
> going to up size my fuse kits to 80 amps. The fuses are on
> order. Your dimmer is built and ready to ship.
Bob had done the best design work he could, he proposed a design
that a lot of people adopted (me included), and it turned out to
have an unexpected problem. Unexpected things can happen in
aircraft systems, and I believe in providing myself with the MOST
options possible (breaker resets included), not the FEWEST
possible (fuses out of reach, so live with the problem until
you land). I've changed my design to include a breaker for the
alternator output. It's a whole lot easier to reset the
alternator breaker rather than having to replace a 70 (or 80) amp
fuse that's been intentionally removed from the pilot's reach.
3. It is true that you can kill yourself by piddling with breakers
when you should be flying the airplane. I believe that problem is
best solved by training, not by changing the aircraft design so that
the pilot can't even reach his circuit protectors.
In conclusion, I believe accessible breakers are a good way to
provide circuit protection. They don't cost much more than a hidden
fuse block, and they give the pilot the option to troubleshoot if
pilot workload permits and the situation warrants it. I believe the
decision whether or not to troubleshoot an electrical problem during
a particular flight should be the PILOT'S decision, not the
DESIGNER'S decision.
Tim Lewis
B.S. and M.S., Electrical Engineering
(with nowhere near the practical experience Bob Nuckolls has)
------------------------------------
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or
timrv6a(at)iname.com
------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: deciding between RV-4 and RV-8 |
Donald DiPaula wrote:
>Don, I saw some replys to you, but as an RV-4 flyer, no one mentioned the biggest
disadvantage with the RV-4-----the CG and gross weight.
The CG is very critical( I have a wood prop) and rear seat passenger
weight and baggage are very limited. I think those with a CS prop would
not have the CG problem, but the problem with gross weight is probably
worse.
John Kitz
N721JK--RV-4
172 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Kennedy <skennedy(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut.....] |
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 21:59:24 -0500
From: Steve Kennedy <skennedy(at)pop.flash.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut.....
<3.0.1.16.19971010103823.2807ce24(at)dtc.net> <3.0.3.32.19971011202046.006bb1f0(at)postoffice.syspac.com>
Thomas Velvick wrote:
>
>
> >It appears to me that the only time breakers have an advantage in saving
> >your hide is in the case of the million-to-one intermittent short that
Gentlemen:
Resetable breaker once saved me, my Baron, and five companions. Cover
was kicked off of manual extension handle, which sticks out behind the
pilot's seat, near the floor. A brief case jambed the handle when I
lowered the gear to land at Houston Hobby, and the gear stopped half way
down.---lots of noise and sounds of wrenching gear box. Of course the
breaker popped. We cleared the handle and reset the breaker. Popped
again. Then started what would have been amusing under other
circumstances. Houston asked if I wanted foam laid down, and how much.
It seems they charge by the square foot. I asked how much and they
didnt know. While we haggled, everything cooled down, and I tried the
gear switch one more time. It worked! I just loved that breaker...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fixed or tail dragger |
<< The ag pilot said, "Get the nosegear.
Tailwheels are a pain in the neck." The Extra pilot said, "No
choice. Get the taildragger."
What's a guy to do? >>
Your an adult, make your own choice. Just be aware that your testicles will
not shrink just because you're fly a trigear.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Emergency Slides? (chatter) |
<< Next thing you know we'll be putting in lighted exit signs and
emergency slides. >>
How about airbags and ejection seats? Who makes these items, and should we
add them to the Yeller Pages?
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
>However, Van recommends a #12 for some 3/16 (AN3) bolts
>for "a snug fit". It looks to me like a 3/16 th bit would be snugger and a
#13
>even more so (memory here!). So why a #12? Wherever is a sloppier fit needed?
>
>Also, I didn't see anywhere about using #41 for the -3 rivets where dimpled.
>Have I missed something?
Hal,
The #12 is a smaller bit than a 3/16". I found it very interesting (and
odd) that, when I was building the Glastar, Stoddard-Hamilton called out for
a #10 hole for 3/16" fastners. That would have produced a very sloppy fit
so we drilled everything #12 or 3/16".
The #41 is used when dimpling because the act of dimpling opens the hole
up a bit, making a #40 drilled hole a little sloppy when dimpled.
Bob Skinner Buffalo, WY RV-6 380 hours bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Topcoating Primers |
Hello All:
After reading the current thread on primers and topcoating, I must
ask if it is necessary to topcoat primer that is applied to internal
parts, ie other than primer that is destined to be painted over anyway.
I have just primed my first parts (Got the spars done for the HS) with
Variprime, and wonder if I need to topcoat this
Sorry to open a rather touchy subject. Where is that asbestos
suit, anyway?!
Regards,
Jeff Orear (RV 6A # 25171 HS)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Avery School |
My 15 year old son and I attended the Avery course before we ordered our
tail kit and we both agreed that the course was a real confidence builder. I
didn't have any friends in the local area that I could learn from so the
Avery course was ideal. Avery uses hands on projects to teach you the basic
skills required. Although I am only on the tail kit, I haven't yet required
a metal working skill which wasn't covered during the two day course. You
also get to try out any tool which Avery offers for sale (after attending
the course, I changed my mind on several tools which were part of the Avery
RV starter kit and substituted others which I found I liked better or found
more useful). In my case, I consider the course money well spent! Hope this
helps.
Ed Tynes
RV-6A, empannage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fixed or tail dragger |
Choose with your heart, Teddy. Choose with your heart.
Regards
Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelli Lewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
Well, it runs. You know, you build and build and sculpt a bunch of small
pieces into piece of art that flys; but you don't know until you fire it up
the first time if it will all work. I don't mean fly; I mean will the thing
even START. Today, mine did. Weighed it in with one half gallon or so of
unusuable fuel and then checked the tanks against the gas gauges (only to be
used as a reference: they were quite a bit off).
Then, with nothing else keeping me from starting the ol' girl, I jumped in
and started it up. And it actually ran. Third blade, it fired up. MAN,
did that sound good. I wasn't as excited as I was surprised that it
actually ran. I mean, not that it wouldn't: it went together like it should
have. But you just don't know it will until it happens. New Lycoming paint
sure stinks. Smokes, too. Ran it until temperatures came up and then shut
her down.
No leaks. No leaks! Yet another surprise. Took it apart, looked around in
the engine compartment and made sure nothing had shaken loose or sprung a
leak. Nothing and none.
So what else could I do? Buttoned her back up and taxied to the end of the
runway.
Got behind an Arrow taking off and they were all looking to see what the
heck is THAT airplane.
It goes straight. Speed builds up pretty fast. A little shorter coupled
than the Cub, a little more rudder dancing than I thought I needed to be
doing, but not bad for the first taxi. She REALLY wanted to go flying. Not
yet.
Oh: this was NOT a fast taxi test. I tried those in the Cub and had a hard
time keeping it going straight. And the Cub and I are OLD friends.
Recommendation: slow taxi work is just fine, thank you. If you have a new
engine, don't taxi much.
Back to the hanger (lots of looks from the airport bums: they wanted me to
just take off). Pull the cowling. No leaks. Amazing. I just took my
airplane for its first ride under its own power. I can't imagine what the
first flight will be like.
What did I learn today:
1. Use a checklist. I have one (several) and it was one gob of
things I didn't have to think about because I already thought it out before.
2. Glad I didn't paint the airplane first. There appeared on the
cowel, under the Gelcoat some blistering and I discovered that the
fiberglass had not filled in under those spots. I will have to grind the
Gelcoat off and redo that. Bummer if painted.
3. You will go flying if you are taxiing and not paying attention.
4. I like this airplane. It felt good to be sitting in the
cockpit, as I have done for hours, not going anywhere, and now it is going
somewhere.
5. Glad I had sat in the cockpit for hours as it is now a pretty
familiar place. I know where everything is. That makes a difference
because, even taxiing, things are happening fast. Bigger benefits when it
finally flys.
6. I have my flight cards ready and will stick to them (within
reason) during my initial flights. Nothing like having things planned out
when you aren't so busy, so you know what you are doing when you are busy.
Inspection one week from tomorrow. I am ready. It's been 6 and some years.
Can't wait.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Topcoating Primers |
mari.net!jorear(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
> Hello All:
>
> After reading the current thread on primers and topcoating, I must
> ask if it is necessary to topcoat primer that is applied to internal
> parts, ie other than primer that is destined to be painted over anyway.
> I have just primed my first parts (Got the spars done for the HS) with
> Variprime, and wonder if I need to topcoat this
>
> Sorry to open a rather touchy subject. Where is that asbestos
> suit, anyway?!
>
> Regards,
> Jeff Orear (RV 6A # 25171 HS)
>
Jeff
Do you intend to hanger your airplane? If the answer is yes you do
not need to topcoat the internal parts. I just completed my annual
condition inspection today and everything internally looks just
the way it did when I completed my RV-6 almost nine years ago
I also used Variprime.
-
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< almost everyone requires
a topcoat.>>
Only if it's really cold in your area. I live in CA, so I don't own one.
<< This means that after you apply your self-etching primer you need
to paint a topcoat over it. I may be wrong about some primers but most need
a topcoat to be effective. >>
Don't believe it. Primers only need a top coat to be MOST effective. IMO
non-topcoated chromate containing primers are still very effective in
reducing corrosion on aluminum. For steel, use a strontium chromate epoxy
primer. They are tighter and don't really need a topcoat to be fully
effective.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
The harder mil. spec. _epoxy_ primers (DP70, Dexter - nee AKZO) do _not_
need a top coat.
.... Gil A.
>
>If everyone would get a copy of the spec's that are available at the paint
>store where you buy your primer, you would see that almost everyone requires
>a topcoat. This means that after you apply your selfetching primer you need
>to paint a topcoat over it.
>I may be wrong about some primers but most need a topcoat to be effective.
>
-------------------------------------------------------
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
> >However, Van recommends a #12 for some 3/16 (AN3) bolts
> >for "a snug fit". It looks to me like a 3/16 th bit would be snugger and a
> #13
> >even more so (memory here!). So why a #12? Wherever is a sloppier fit needed?
>
> Hal,
> The #12 is a smaller bit than a 3/16".
> Bob Skinner Buffalo, WY RV-6 380 hours bskinr(at)trib.com
>
Bob, Hal,
The 10G bolt dia is .190
3/16 is .1875
#12 is .189
10 G is only a nominal 3/16
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 doing the fiddly bits before engine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Hole sizes - was Tools |
>
>Hi all & esp Gil A.,
>
>Gil says,
>
> These 7 sizes will drill > 99.5% of all RV holes. For nicer fitting
>bolt holes, drill #13 for AN3 and 15/64 for AN4 and then ream out to #12
>and 0.0249 respectively.
>
>#50 ... good pilot drill size
>#41 ... 3/32 dimpled rivet holes
>#40 ... 3/32 rivets into thick metal (such as longerons)
>#30 ... 1/8 rivet holes
>#19 ... #8 screw holes
>#12 ... AN3 bolt holes
>D ... AN4 bolt holes
>
>Thanks Gil - we need more of the basic info on some of the construction
tasks.
>
>About drilling holes... Like most of the specs on the dwgs, there are no
>tolerances for holes. However, Van recommends a #12 for some 3/16 (AN3)
bolts
>for "a snug fit". It looks to me like a 3/16 th bit would be snugger and
a #13
>even more so (memory here!). So why a #12? Wherever is a sloppier fit
needed?
Hal,
Holes drilled with a hand drill will usually end up slightly
oversize. If you drill under size, and then ream, the hole will be much
closer to the reamer dimension.
So why these sizes?? Well there is a tolerance on AN bolts
(actually quite large at 0.003 inches) so these sizes are chosen to be the
exact upper tolerance of the bolt diameters
AN3 max dia = 0.189 # 12 reamer/drill is 0.189
AN4 max dia = 0.249 Use a 0.249 reamer (it's a std. size)
-- a letter D drill (from the plans) is actually
0.246, so an accurate hole will be too tight for most AN4 bolts. This is
where you can see the extra 'slop' generated by hand drilling if your bolts
actually fit into D size holes. A reamed letter D hole would be too tight
(the old 'hammer fit' ...:^).
>
>Also, I didn't see anywhere about using #41 for the -3 rivets where
dimpled.
>Have I missed something?
Personal preference, but the holes open up after dimpling, so the
rivets actually fit a little better and need a little less "squishing"
(technical term ...:^) during riveting. One problem may be that some makes
of 3/32 clecoes won't fit easily into #41 holes _before_ you dimple ...
mine do.
... Hope this helps ...
Gil (make nice holes) Alexander
------------------------------------
RV6A, #20701, finishing kit
"REPLY" sends to entire RV-list
mailto:gila(at)flash.net to reply privately
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
>
> If everyone would get a copy of the spec's that are available at the paint
> store where you buy your primer, you would see that almost everyone requires
> a topcoat. This means that after you apply your selfetching primer you need
> to paint a topcoat over it.
> I may be wrong about some primers but most need a topcoat to be effective.
>
I hate to fuel the primer thread but the significance of the above
post is that primers vary and all have spec sheets. All the"experts"
told me to use primer sparingly. The spec sheet said 10 to 15
microns. The experts would have been right for a zinc chromate etch
primer, but I used an epoxy primer. Where I followed the experts'
advice I now have corrosion. The epoxy primer, correctly applied,
needs no topcoat, as it creates its own moisture barrier.
Get the spec sheet and follow it religiously
Peter Bennett
RV6 painting inside, looking for electron microscope to measure 10
microns
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: matronics.com: |
ho...
<>
I E-Mailed Van's about this very subject, but I asked about using a faying
surface sealer between aluminum and steel parts for dissimilar metal
corrossion prevention. I was told that a good coat of primer on all the
(aircraft) parts, aluminum or steel, would be sufficient.
Cad plating is a good corrossion deterant, don't get me wrong, but it is an
extra expense, that isn't "required" by the manufacturer. All exposed steel
parts are supposed to be primed and painted, and well, you know the rest.
Regards
Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
I have placed front pre-welded canopy frame level with the sub-instrument
panel and the aft part rests on the instrument panel. The instrument panel
is made per plan, but there is about a half inch between the bottom of the
frame and the longeron. That seems excessive.
Is it?
Have a good one.
Denny RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Nothing on the rv-list |
<< have not gotten any thing on the rv-list for the past three days. >>
Bruce,
You must be on aol. I've had the same problem.
Started last sunday. I figure that they are trying to incorparate all those
Compuserve buy-outs. In over their heads again. I was getting a little
depressed from no RV stuff.
Gene cafgef(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CHRIS.BROWNE(at)bge.com |
| Subject: | Pneumatic squeezer or C-frame tool for sale, anyone? |
The Yard was out of decent squeezers. I am looking for one which is
functional, not pretty. Prefer one which is compatible with the
Chicago Pneumatic #214 (Yoke holes on ~1.3" centers - 3/8" dia pins).
Also looking for a serviceable "C-Frame Tool".
Thanks,
Chris Browne
Buying tools, RV-6A emp soon
Chris.Browne(at)BGE.com or CBrowne714(at)aol.com
(410)495-3464 leave message
Home in Atlanta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fixed or tail dragger |
>
><< The ag pilot said, "Get the nosegear.
> Tailwheels are a pain in the neck." The Extra pilot said, "No
> choice. Get the taildragger."
>
> What's a guy to do? >>
You know you can fly a trigear, you'll never know if you can handle a
taildragger. The question is, do you want to find out ??? Many others do
it. Al
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lothar Klingmuller <lothark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | COMPRESSED AIR LINE/NOISE REDUCERS |
I am in the final stages of finishing my garage and need advice what
type of air lines to install. I like to have 3 outlets (each side and in
the ceiling {9 ft high}). Aprx. 50 ft total line.
I understand rubber hoses are cheap and easy to install.
Metal tubing requires considderable more work (pipe cutting and
threating) and are expensive.
What is the longevity of rubber vs tubing?
What size tubing is normally used? Is there significant pressure loss with
a standard rubber hose?
I have a Sears 3.5 (15 gl) oilfree (= NOISY) compressor which I will
located outside (in a little enclosure or shed) to reduce noise. Any
experience with type of lining for compressor shed? WouId egg cartons
(linig the inside walls of the compressor shed) work?
Thanks in advance for your input!
Safe and happy landings -ALWAYS!
Lothar* K.|| Denver, CO || NOW finishing FLUGHAUS (=carriagehouse)
|| loocking for RV- 6 JIG || ready to jig soon ||| *(pron'd: "low-TARR")
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: the trouble with media . . . |
>
>While I believe absolutely that you are entitled to your opinion and you
>have every right to express it here, please indulge me a hearing of mine.
>While you obviously dislike airshows, no one says you have to go. . .
Does anyone belive that there might be a lot MORE RV's flying
if the show were a little more "aviation for the common aviator"
and less of an attraction for it's hype and daring do? I think
aviation shows and demonstrations on airports are an excellent way
to inspire and educate the public about aviation . . . . it's the
modern encarnation of "airshows" that I object to . . .
>Some feel that aviation is an elite fraternaty that only those who seek us
>out should to be allowed admission. I disagree, if the number of pilots
>(read votes) continues to deteriorate we will lose the political battles
>like 100LL fuel and aviation user fees. If we do not continue to recruite
>new blood we will not have the coherent voices to answer the media types
>when they ask the question, "What qualifications are required to build an
>airplane?"
Exactly the point I made in my earlier post . . . the public is most
welcome . . and with a change of attitudes on the part of promoters
with what constitutes a good show, we could concentrate on capturing
the imagination of those who are truly potential students and builders.
It's hard to sort out the hot ones from the thousands who show up
to participate in those things which have absolutely nothing to do
with aviation.
>I agree that the pilot/builder only flyins are great activities. They are a
>lot of fun and educational, however how will we bring new pilot/builders in
>to the fraternaty if we check for a license at the door.
That's not what I suggested . . . the shows of which I spoke had their
drawing cards too but different ones (bring your kid out for an airplane
ride) and they'll continue to look for others.
>
>Give the public a break, They understand that most airplanes don't snap
>roll on take off just as well as they understand that the family Ford will
>not run around the Daytona track at 180 mph. The airshow industry is
>starting to attract the attention of some major corporate money.
And who are these major corporations and what do they have to offer
you and I? And what is their interest in supporting the show except
to please their stockholders. I'll suggest that FEW big corporations
have anything more to offer than Cessna/Beech/Piper/Mooney have to offer
today. It's the guys operating out of their garages and littel store
fronts that are on the leading edge of where we're wanting to go . . .
but they can't afford booths at OSH because the BIG corporations
are able and willing to pay the high prices, so the prices ARE high.
>I will acknowledge that the airshow industry has some faults, however, most
>airshows are run by volunteers. Most profits from airshows go to charity.
>Most are community activities ran by the Chamber of Commerce. And most are
>pretty well run and successful.
Hey, the revenue generating entertainment shows of which you speak are not
going to go away just because Bob Nuckolls thinks they're hurting us more
than
they're helping. All I was saying in my earlier post is that builders
groups are beginning to understand where a focused effort may return
more for the investment. My remark about airshow performers was not
intended to be a slap at their professionalism -or- thier value in
attracting public attention. The problem is, as soon as you advertise that
kind of show and charge admission to the general public, the FAA's ears
perk up and a cadre of helpful representatives will show up.
>I fly in 10 to 12 airshows each summer. Sometimes when I am leaving home on
>Friday, my desk covered with work that needs done, I think, why do I do
>this? Why go stand in the hot sun with 120 aeroshell dripping on my new
>nomex flight suit ($169.00)? . . .
I'm there too . . . just not out in the sun (at least most of the time)
and I'll continue to be there . .
> . . . Sure as I think that, a 7 year
>old kid will get in the seat of a B-25 and tell his grandpa that he wants to
>be a pilot when he grows up. . . One experience like that and I am recharged
>for a whole season!
No argument there Doug . . . but have you walked the new buildings at
OSH? Take a little notebook some time and make four columns to put
marks (1) Amateur Builder Friendly (2) Corporation Aviation Friendly (3)
Aviation Interested Public Friendly (4) Not a darn thing to do with
airplanes. Walk all the booths and tents and work the percentages.
I've been going to OSH for 12 years and haven't seen everything yet
and it's getting BIGGER. Now tell me with a straight face that atmosphere
is conducive to bringing initiates into amateur built aviation. A small
percentage of what happens there is promoting amateur building and it's
so diluted with other interests that the very public we're hoping to
capture is dumbstruck . . . and I predict it will get worse. What's
going to replace all those houses and farms along Knapp Street next?
People laugh when I suggest a water theme park but just wait and see.
Make your own suggestion as to what should occupy that space and then
compare it with what really happens.
>Maybe the sizzle of aviation is gone for you? If it is, I am truly sorry.
>It is not like chicken pox, you can get it again :-)
Doug, it's the corporate mentality taking over the larger airshows
that's erroding your own efforts as well. When the Mecca of Aviation
was located in Rockford, (not yet recognized as a mass attendance event)
folks in your business and my business were a whole lot closer to
the attendees. Now we can hardly get their attention for all the
"noise". I'm just as excited about airplanes as I ever was and eager
to share my vision and enthusiasm . . . but trying to do that at
OSH is like swimming around in the ocean looking for minnows with
a butterfly net.
But I also understand the need for reasonable rate of return. We've
attended too many events where we didn't even cover the expense of
being there . . . but hey, that's business . . . there's RISK
involved. At the same time, I want to stay focused on what you
and I have to sell and who we believe will benefit most from our
services. If we don't do well in the latter and concentrate only
on the former, we can loose sight of the mission.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
----------
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 1997 6:50 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Foam for Seats
Industrial Rubber & Supply Inc., Tacoma,WA had Temperfoam the last I checked,
but I don't think they sell retail. Might give them a call (800) 426-7944.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ
I recently bought an RV-4 from a 6 foot pilot. I'm very short in the
torso so have to build a new seat about 5" higher than is now in the
airplane.
I planned to use Temperfoam but have not been able to find it locally.
Confor is a similar product but minimum sizes make the cost prohibitive.
Does anyone know of a source for either product in the Puget Sound area?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: COMPRESSED AIR LINE/NOISE REDUCERS |
I have the same compressor, live in a condo and have a one car garage to work
in.....and I have to put the car in the garage at night. Therefore I not
only have the noise to deal with but space.
I built a plywood box big enough to hold the compressor without the handle or
wheels but with clearance for eggcarton-type foam that's about 3" think. I
got it for free but I think it's rather expensive ($50?). Anyway, I built a
door on the box so that I could get at the compressor to drain water etc. and
then put the entire thing under the workbench. Actually, I sized it fit
there.
Does it work? Well, my neighbor's home office is over my garage and I asked
her it bothered her. She said she was unaware of it! Just to be on the safe
side I wired it through a motion-detector-controlled outlet. That way, if
I'm not there and the pressure drops due to a slow leak, it won't fire up in
the middle of the night.
Bob Fritz
Tails done, arranging for the QB6 which I'll have to build elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CHRIS.BROWNE(at)bge.com |
| Subject: | Re: COMPRESSED AIR LINE/NOISE REDUCERS |
______________________________ Reply Separator ____________________________
_____
I am in the final stages of finishing my
garage and need advice what
type of air lines to install. ...
Lothar,
I am at the same point you are. I used to install piped, HP air systems
for a living, and I can tell you that, like so many other things, the
decision rests on what you want in the end. Pipe will definitely outlast
hose, but the main reasons hoses degrade are abrasion, fatigue, and ozone
damage to the rubber. Wall mounted hose overcomes all but the last
problem. Piping is great and makes a long lasting, trouble-free, and
professional installation. But, as you say, it's alot of work, requires
more fittings (potential leaks), looks awful if you screw it up, the tools
are expensive, and you often have to chase leaks after you are done.
My humble opinion? Install pipe if you want a permanent installation that
you will use after your airplane is finished on you car, another plane,
etc. It may also help sell you sell your house.
I am installing hose using an overhead reel since I will rip it out when
I'm done. I prefer a portable air system and I can always use spare
lengths of hose. Old tubing is a mess.
If you are a real tool freak like me, install an overhead air hose reel.
It protects you hose well and gets it out of the way quickly and easily
when you are done. Harbor Freight has them for $40 (20' length)
...I have a Sears 3.5 (15 gl) oilfree (= NOISY) compressor which I will
located outside (in a little enclosure or shed) to reduce noise. ...
I have the same compressor. Try some R-12 insulation that is adhesive on
one side. Its easy to put up.
Chris Browne
Buying Tools, RV6A emp soon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick and Barbara Osgood <randbosgood(at)sprintmail.com> |
Hello all:
I am about to finish up the wiring for my left wing and have questions.
Is it acceptable to use non-milspec wire for things like, landing
lights, heated pitot tube, etc.?
Thanks
--
Rick and Barbara Osgood
RandBOsgood(at)sprintmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CHRIS.BROWNE(at)bge.com |
| Subject: | COMPRESSED AIR LINE/NOISE REDUCERS |
--------------- cc:Mail Forwarded ---------------
From: worldnet.att.net!lothark(at)matronics.com AT INTERNET
Date: 10/18/97 03:51 PM
Subject: RV-List: COMPRESSED AIR LINE/NOISE REDUCERS
Oh, almost forgot. For a permanent, hard piped system, here's even more
free advise. If you are going to use tools which are real air hogs (e.g.
HVLP spray guns and buffers) consider nothing smaller than 1/2" tubing,
avoid small radius bends, and plan your routing to minimize the total
number of bends. You get real frustrated when your tools operate poorly
after all that effort. Don't forget a good in-line oiler. And, while I'm
thinking of ways to spend your money, a big, 2 cylinder, 7.5HP,
24CFM@175PSI, 80 gallon, Ingersoll-rand compressor would REALLY top off
that permanent air system nicely! :-)
Chris Browne
Admitted Tool Junkie and RV6AQB wannabe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Mumert" <sdm(at)SoftOptions.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re: Temperfoam |
charset="iso-8859-1"
I found this stuff at a local wheelchair supply house. It is used for
people who are confined to their chair for long periods.
Dave Mumert
SDM(at)softoptions.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut.....] |
There must be about 100,000,000 automobles out there running around without a
switch on the alternator field. Why is a switch so common on our little
airplanes. Or is it a case where I can't find mine on all my cars and
motorcycles. Someone tell me the problem of not having the switch.
Gene Francis, cafgef(at)aol.com
and very happy to be allowed by aol to get some RV e-mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | #10 Screw for #8 Dimple |
Does anyone know of a source for "fix it" type screws with a #10 thread and
#8 flush head ? This would be similar to oversize shank rivets for repair.
ie: #4 shank with #3 flush heads.
Please respond offlist to
Dan Helm (DkSJC(at)aol.com)
Thanks in advance
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV-4 Seat Cushions For Sale |
I have a nice set of RV-4 seat cushions in a dark forest green herculon
fabric with ivory stitching. No tears, fades, or worn spots. They look new
and only have 50 hours on them. Removed for exterior and interior color
change and refurbishment. Two different pilot cushions for different height
pilots. Total of five pieces. Sell all for $125.00.
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wanted; prop hub and spinner |
Iam trying to locate a prop hub, #m2yr, i2yr , l2yr, or j2yr.. also need a
spinner from a rockwell commander, either 112 or 114, with bulkheads and
backplate..
let me know if you got any reccomendations....
thanks Mark@ aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
>> Hal,
>> The #12 is a smaller bit than a 3/16".
>> Bob Skinner Buffalo, WY RV-6 380 hours bskinr(at)trib.com
>>
>Bob, Hal,
>The 10G bolt dia is .190
>3/16 is .1875
>#12 is .189
>10 G is only a nominal 3/16
>
>Peter Bennett
Of course, you (and the other 100 people who caught this) are correct.
The 12 is bigger than a 3/16". Must have had "brain fade" when I didn't
write what I meant. After 3 aiplanes, you'd think I'd get it right. Sorry
that I posted bum info. Hopefully, it doesn't happen too often:(
Bob Skinner Buffalo, WY RV-6 380 hours bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
I am sanding and fitting the fibreglass tips for the tail section. The
instructions say to close off the ends of the rudder and elevator tips bu=
t
that it is not necessary to close off the stabilizer tips since they do n=
ot
face the wind. If I keep the tips open I can keep an eye on a small
portion of the inside of the stabilizer, closing them would present a mor=
e
finished look and maybe help them retain thier shape.
Are there any other pros or cons to either one way or the other? Any
opinions out there? (silly question with this group!)
Thanks
Scott A. Jordan
80331
N733JJ
wings in the spring, breathing fibreglass dust in the meantime.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Foam for Seats |
I picked up a flyer (no pun intended) at Copperstate from a company by the
name of Temperfoam-Sunmate in Nebraska that does mail order. They have a nice
set of recommendeds for weight/height/useage as well as some experience with
RV's
402/470-2346
hope that helps
Bob Fritz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: the trouble with media . . . |
charset="iso-8859-1"
Mr Nuckolls,
I think now I understand have a better understanding of your mission.
Your's is much more narrowly focused than mine. I am not a builder, I never
will be, I have neither the time nor the talent to undertake such a project.
However I am deeply committed to all aspects of aviation including building.
However, the Cessnas and the Raytheon's of the world play a just as
important role.
I appreciate your "purest" view, and offer this comparison. Several years
ago there was an Antique Flyin at Ottumwa Iowa. It was hosted by a guy
named Taylor. It enjoyed some success. An air guard pilot from Wisconsin
with a funny name was a regular attender. I don't know all the details but
suffice it to say that air guard pilot took some ideas home and started
something.
If you go to Blakesburg Iowa on Labor Day weekend you will find the purest
form of antique aviation on earth. Tricycle gear airplanes are allowed but
not appreciated. Wheel landings are really frowned upon and you will see
more "one of" fly, real antiques, OX-5 and all, than you ever will at Osh
Kosh. It is like heaven on earth. No Blow up airplanes, No one selling
water bottles on a string or Helicopter kites.
There is everything anyone might ever want there except people. Maybe they
will have 1500 or 2000 people there. They come from all over the country,
but they are all pilots and already new about it. The Taylors have avoided
all attempt towards commercialization and Robert Taylor states proudly that
"Blakesburg is the anti-thesis of Osh Kosh." More power to Mr Taylor, but I
am afraid that Mr Poberezny has attracted many orders of magnitude more
people in to aviation than Taylor.
I will rephrase only one comment from my previous post to clarify the
difference in our objectives. I don't care if people want to fly Lear Jets,
Spam Cans, Ultra-lites or homebuilts, I want to get more people in all
aspects of aviation, that includes the corporate types. I want companies to
use airplanes to promote their products like they do on race cars. I want
people to percieve that aviation is more normal than driving. (It is you
know, name an animal with wheels) I still long for the Popular Science
plan of an aircraft in every garage. I think someone will win the X-prize.
I think in my lifetime I will be able to buy a ticket on a spaceship.
Home building is only a small part of that vision and impatient people with
limited time will not come to the airport for a seminar on rolling aluminum
or pounding rivits. To accomplish my mission we need to be adding tens of
thousands of pilots to the pilot roles. We need to make Planes more user
friendly and that is starting to happen. (Look at the Cirrus SR-20)
The only way that I see to do that is to embrace the billions that the
corporate world spends on Football and Golf etc. What do you think would
happen to aviation, if you woke up monday and read that Nike had signed a
$20 million contract with Sean Tucker to promote Tennis Shoes? You don't
think kids would start getting interested in aviation. You would not be
able to build airplane parts fast enough.
I understand you purest point of view and there is a side of me that wishes
that was the way the world worked. Unfortunately I have seen nothing that
will convince me that we can sell aviation with out the T-shirts funny hats
and helicopter kites.
My wife's biggest complaint about airshows is that they are to boring, not
enough excitement or action..... Those are the people we have got to figure
out a way to sell.
Many apoligies for the 2 long posts. I have stated my point and I will
stop. I promise.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: COMPRESSED AIR LINE/NOISE REDUCERS |
----------
> From: Lothar Klingmuller <worldnet.att.net!lothark(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: COMPRESSED AIR LINE/NOISE REDUCERS
> What is the longevity of rubber vs tubing?
> What size tubing is normally used? Is there significant pressure loss
with
> a standard rubber hose?
I used a 150' run of 1/2 rubber hose (cheap, from Harbor Freight) from
garage to basement when building wings. Before that I had 150' of 1/4 ID
nylon for my model railroad airbrush. It worked ok except the die grinders
had a 50 PSI drop. In the basement I had a manifold with three 25' lengths
of 1/4 ID fed by the 150' line at 115 PSI. One line of the 25 footers was
a different color and regulated for riveting. By the way, I chose 1/4 ID
for the working lines for flexibility. I am well aware of line impedance
effects (I'm a physicist) and I greatly prefer a real flexible 1/4 ID hose
over 3/8 and 1/2. I have those and don't use them much.
Pressure drop was 20 PSI on airdrills and 30 PSI on die grinders -- I never
minded it.
Now I am in the garage and have only the manifold and three 25' lines.
However I find 25' not quite long enough for all the fuselage work.
I also have a Harbor Freight line swivel on EVERY AIR TOOL I own! At $4 a
pop they are a great little invention!
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: COMPRESSED AIR LINE/NOISE REDUCERS |
Lothar Klingmuller wrote:
snipped
> What is the longevity of rubber vs tubing?
Lothar,
Rubber will last 1-4 years, depending on how much care (or abuse) is
inflicted on the ends. They usually fail at or near the ends.
> What size tubing is normally used? Is there significant pressure loss with
> a standard rubber hose?
Most rubber hose is 3/8". As was suggested earlier, 1/2" steel or copper
would be better as regards pressure drop.
Many shops here in South Florida use PVC plastic pipe for routing air
lines. Schedule 40 is commonly used. It's cheap and easy to assemble.
(Just glue it together) It will last over 10 years IF it is properly
mounted and secured to the walls & ceiling. This is very important at
the coupler points where you will attach your rubber hoses.
It's an economical compromise between steel and rubber. Hey, even if
you do crack a PVC line occasionally, it's easy to fix. I hope this
helps.
Charlie Kuss
RV-8 empennage
Boca Raton, Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
| Subject: | COMPRESSED AIR LINE/NOISE REDUCERS |
Lothar Klingmuller wrote about air lines in his garage---use soldered
copper lines. They are easy to install and will work well.
John Kitz
RV-4 N721JK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com> |
| Subject: | 0-360 wt. and balance |
I have an 0-360 for my RV-6 w/sliding canopy. I will be using a
constant speed prop, light wt. starter and light wt. alternator. My
instrument panel will be VFR with vacume gauges, one nav/com and a
transponder. My question is will putting the battery in the standard
location keep me within the CG range with a 150 lb pilot or will I have
to move it behind the pilot? I have seen it done both ways and wonder
how the weight and balance came out on them.
Thanks for your input.
Frank Smidler
smidler(at)dcwi.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ammeter <ammeterj(at)seanet.com> |
Here's a question for Bob Nichols or anyone who wants to step up to the plate.
What's the best voltage/amperage or whatever to trickle charge the RG
battery? I'm looking for a charger to keep the battery 'topped off' yet not
overcharge or overheat it.
With the lousy weather we get in the winter sometimes the RV can sit for
quite some time before being flown and the battery can run down.
TIA,
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
Seattle WA USA
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donald DiPaula <dipaula(at)access.digex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RG Batteries?? |
>
> Here's a question for Bob Nichols or anyone who wants to step up to the plate.
>
> What's the best voltage/amperage or whatever to trickle charge the RG
> battery? I'm looking for a charger to keep the battery 'topped off' yet not
> overcharge or overheat it.
>
> With the lousy weather we get in the winter sometimes the RV can sit for
> quite some time before being flown and the battery can run down.
i don't know if you can use this or not, but i use a "battery tender" on
my motorcycle for similar reasons. keeps battery charged and won't let it
get too cold, won't overcharge (detects fully charged condition), won't give
any juice if the leads are shorted (from moisture or otherwise). if i
remember right, it can be set for 6 or 12 volt batteries. it cost me about
$40.
alternatively, you could just disconnect the battery and bring it inside if
it's going to sit for a while. more effort, but cheaper.
-D-
Cynthia Alice DiPaula was born 9 June 1997, 3:36 p.m., 7 lb. 10 oz., 20.5"
"Even a single elephant can be destructive."
My 1989 Honda CB-1 (CB400F) is for sale, email me if interested.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | fiberglass stuff |
I am in the process of fitting the fuselage/empanage fairing on my -6.
Confirming what I have heard from many builders, it came as no surprise
that it initially fits like s***. Today I entertained the idea of
pitching it totally, and glassing a new fairing from scratch. Is it
worth the effort, or should I rework the one I've already got?
I received my finish kit in 1994. Has Van's made any improvements to
the fit of the fairing since then? If so, I might just buy a new one
since the one I have has sat for so long and possibly suffered the
effects of aging (warping.) I may be overly critical, but I'd like to
spend the least amount of time on the fairing as I can given that I
dislike working with fiberglass so much (hence, a "non-plastic"
kitplane.)
Since I am on the fiberglass subject, has anyone had any experience yet
with the Barnard holy-cowl? I really like its somewhat striking
appearance, not to mention the ability to not have to shoe-horn the
IO-360 I plan to use. At Oshkosh, I spoke with Steve Barnard and had a
chance to look at the fiberglass baffling that is used with the cowl.
Does anyone know if the baffling kit is available yet from him?
Thanks,
Bob Japundza
Integrated Information Services, LLC
Carmel, IN
bob@iis-intellect.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Moradian" <tonym(at)enviroaqua.com> |
charset="iso-8859-1"
I was fabricating my HS-811 today. I pilot drilled all of the holes. I
measured 1/4" radius from the last hole and made the taper. On onside of
the taper I am under by about 1/64". If we factor in a minimum of "2D" from
the edge by the book, then this peice is scrap? Does the minimum 2D take
into effect the thickness of the material. In this case the 811 is a lot
thicker than a skin for example. Any suggestions would be appreciated
Thanks,
Tony Moradian
RV-8 Empenage #80398
tmoradia(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rscott(at)wnstar.com (Richard Scott) |
| Subject: | Re: COMPRESSED AIR LINE/NOISE REDUCERS |
Lothar,
I'm no expert, but I used PVC pipe for my air tubing & it worked just
fine--cheap & easy to install. Be sure to use Schedule 40.
Dick Scott
>
> I am in the final stages of finishing my garage and need advice what
>type of air lines to install. I like to have 3 outlets (each side and in
>the ceiling {9 ft high}). Aprx. 50 ft total line.
> I understand rubber hoses are cheap and easy to install.
> Metal tubing requires considderable more work (pipe cutting and
>threating) and are expensive.
> What is the longevity of rubber vs tubing?
>What size tubing is normally used? Is there significant pressure loss with
>a standard rubber hose?
> I have a Sears 3.5 (15 gl) oilfree (= NOISY) compressor which I will
>located outside (in a little enclosure or shed) to reduce noise. Any
>experience with type of lining for compressor shed? WouId egg cartons
>(linig the inside walls of the compressor shed) work?
>
>Thanks in advance for your input!
>Safe and happy landings -ALWAYS!
>
>Lothar* K.|| Denver, CO || NOW finishing FLUGHAUS (=carriagehouse)
>|| loocking for RV- 6 JIG || ready to jig soon ||| *(pron'd: "low-TARR")
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
| Subject: | Re: wanted; prop hub and spinner |
>>
>> Iam trying to locate a prop hub, #m2yr, i2yr , l2yr, or j2yr.. also =
need a
>>spinner from a rockwell commander, either 112 or 114, with bulkheads =
and
>>backplate..=20
>>let me know if you got any reccomendations....
>> thanks Mark@ aol.com
>>
>
We do lots of specialty spinner work (as well as other more exotic
metal work, such as hand forming and compound curves).. If you have
your old spinner it's simple. If not, a little harder. First, we
need the thickness of the hub and the pattern... (What engine?).
bill
Send email to infobot(at)pdsig.n2.net for a directory of interesting stuff!
("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Bill Nash
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Aircraft Remanufacturing Corp
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' 1531 Avohill Dr
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Vista, Ca 92084 (760) 749 0239
(((),-'' (((),' (((.-' Email: bjnash(at)pdsig.n2.net
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/index.html =20
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Empanage tips |
>
>I am sanding and fitting the fibreglass tips for the tail section. The
>instructions say to close off the ends of the rudder and elevator tips
bu=
>t
>that it is not necessary to close off the stabilizer tips since they do
n=
>ot
>face the wind. If I keep the tips open I can keep an eye on a small
>portion of the inside of the stabilizer, closing them would present a
mor=
>e
>finished look and maybe help them retain thier shape.
>
>Are there any other pros or cons to either one way or the other? Any
>opinions out there? (silly question with this group!)
>
>Thanks
>
>Scott A. Jordan
>80331
>N733JJ
>wings in the spring, breathing fibreglass dust in the meantime.
>
Scott,
Ain't all that fibrglass dust a riot!! (hack, cough, choke). I used my
belt sander to grind away at them...saved HUGE amounts of effort.
Anyway..I spent some time at the airport today...just looking at the
tail tips on spam cans. I found some to be open ended on the stab. tips,
others had an aluminum piece blind riveted in place. So, the only way I
can see that there MIGHT be a safety issue with leaving them open is
during aerobatics...like, a flopped hammerhead that slides backwards.
NOT that it ever happened to me! Nope...*blush*
So, I just got mine fitted, and the aluminum stips glued in place..and
I'll actually mount them once the entire tail is in place on the
fuselage. Maybe I'll have some more insight at that time.
Good luck!
Brian Denk
-8 #379, wing kit on the way!
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donald DiPaula <dipaula(at)access.digex.net> |
| Subject: | 4 vs 8: decision? |
i'd like to thank everyone who responded when i asked about why they chose
the RV-4 or the RV-8, and took the time to comment on what i saw as the
relative +s and -s of each.
the concensus seems to be: don't worry too much about the RV-4 kits not being
pre-punched; one can learn to do that quite well if one doesn't mind taking
the extra time instead of getting it that way from the factory. besides,
i can get the enough experience to dive in with a $300 weekend course. i also
was warned that the RV-4 requires careful attention to gross weight limits
and center of gravity placement.
the important thing seems to be that the construction job, time, cost, ease,
etc., are all secondary to: which plane would i rather be in when i'm done?
(especially since there are plenty of easier, cheaper, quicker kits to build
out there these days). it won't matter if have a better experience building
one plane, if it means i end up regretting that i'm not flying the other
one. that is what matters most.
which means that since the RV-4 thrills me more, the -4 it will be. a
difference of a few mph speed is made up for by shorter takeoffs, faster
climbs, and general lower-weight maneuverability advantage. (funny, that's
a lot like how i chose my CRX-Si over the prelude, and my CBR600F3 over the
ZX9-R. i'm detecting a pattern here...)
again, thanks to all who responded.
-D-
Cynthia Alice DiPaula was born 9 June 1997, 3:36 p.m., 7 lb. 10 oz., 20.5"
"Even a single elephant can be destructive."
My 1989 Honda CB-1 (CB400F) is for sale, email me if interested.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RG Batteries?? |
>What's the best voltage/amperage or whatever to trickle charge the RG
>battery? I'm looking for a charger to keep the battery 'topped off' yet not
>overcharge or overheat it.
Actually, you're looking for a constant voltage charger . . . it
doesn't take much current. If you want to keep it topped off and
flight ready I'd set the voltage for 13.8 for 70F type temperatures,
14.2 for 30F temperatures.
If you want to long term store the battery and just keep it from
running down but not necessarily 100% topped off, 13.0 volts
will do the trick. Watch for an article on how to modify the
dimmer (June 93 Sport Aviation or on our website pretty soon)
to build an adjustable battery maintainer for either 115 VAC
or hagar top solar cells. The battery maintainer article is
90% complete and will be submitted to Sport Aviation . . . probably
come out in spring.
B&C has a "smart" wall-wart type battery maintainer . . .
I think they're about $80.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RG Batteries?? |
>
>i don't know if you can use this or not, but i use a "battery tender" on
>my motorcycle for similar reasons. keeps battery charged and won't let it
>get too cold, won't overcharge (detects fully charged condition), won't give
>any juice if the leads are shorted (from moisture or otherwise). if i
>remember right, it can be set for 6 or 12 volt batteries. it cost me about
>$40.
>
I've heard of several products like this and in that price range.
Just check your battery voltage after the "maintainer" has been
plugged in for a day . . . voltages should not be greater than
those I mentioned in other post.
>alternatively, you could just disconnect the battery and bring it inside if
>it's going to sit for a while. more effort, but cheaper.
This is the "best" way. Actually, RG batteries store quite well. If
the battery was up when you put the airplane away, cool weather
reduces the rate of self-discharge. The battery will stay up longer
in a cool place than say, inside the house.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>Hello all:
>I am about to finish up the wiring for my left wing and have questions.
>
>Is it acceptable to use non-milspec wire for things like, landing
>lights, heated pitot tube, etc.?
>
>Thanks
>--
>Rick and Barbara Osgood
Why not use mil-spec? It doesn't take much and it's easy to get.
Mil-W-22759/16 wire is the wire of choice and sold by the foot
by Aircraft Spruce et. als. If you've got an avionics shop or
FBO with a good repair shop nearby, they may sell you short pieces
of the fatter wires for landing lights and pitot heat.
The problem with most other wires is their insulation. If not a
close cousin to teflon (22759 is Tefzel), the insulation gets
brittle with age and WILL be a problem at some time in the future.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . |
.Yeahbut.....]
>There must be about 100,000,000 automobles out there running around without a
>switch on the alternator field. Why is a switch so common on our little
>airplanes. Or is it a case where I can't find mine on all my cars and
>motorcycles. Someone tell me the problem of not having the switch.
Excellent question . . . and sure, the answer is simple. In airplanes,
the prudent way to architecture and operate an electrical system is to
assume that at some point, each and every electrical system component
is capable of failing in flight. After deducing ALL the ways an alternator
system can fail, one finds several conditions under which you need to have
separate and total control over the alternator field current. (1) the
alternator has become disconnected from the bus but is still drawing
maximum field current because the regulator thinks the alternator is
simply shirking . . . it applies full field current in hopes of
flogging the alternator to life. In flight, this is a LARGE and useless
drain on the battery that you'd like to conserve for running really useful
things. (2) You're on short final to an unplanned arrival with the earth
and you want a way to get all electrical sources shut down before
contact with the rocks, trees, whatever . . . (3) If for any reason,
one might turn the battery master off before stopping the engine, the
alternator may continue to run, self-excited but poorly regulated
and be a real bother to other electrical sytem parts that may object
to the poor quality power. There might be others but these are pretty
compelling.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fiberglass stuff |
>I am in the process of fitting the fuselage/empanage fairing on my -6.
>Confirming what I have heard from many builders, it came as no surprise
>that it initially fits like s***. Today I entertained the idea of
>pitching it totally, and glassing a new fairing from scratch. Is it
>worth the effort, or should I rework the one I've already got?
Bob (and ony other RV-6er),
I made a mold out of the empanage fairing that I laid up on my six. I did
this because I knew that I wanted to build a few more sixes and didn't want
to have to go through making a new fairing each time.
I make a one-layer fairing that is easily adapted to fit any six. Once in
place, you lay 3 (or 4) lay-ups over it and end up with a custom fit
fairing. There are now 4 airplanes using this method and the builders seem
to think it works out OK Three fit with no modification. On one six, for
some reason, the guy had to do a little "cut & paste" work but he said it
turned out well.
I decided to offer this fairing to listers for $30.00. I don't know if
that sounds too high, or not, but I don't really like working with
fiberglass that much.
Anyway, if you or any other lister are interested, contact me off-list.
I'll send out a set of instructions and you can decide whether my solution
is easier than trying to modify Van's fairing. I think it is as modifying
Van's fairing is how I got to this point.
Bob Skinner Buffalo, WY RV-6 380 hours bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Derek Reed <dreed(at)cdsnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: COMPRESSED AIR LINE/NOISE REDUCERS |
bge.com!CHRIS.BROWNE(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> --------------- cc:Mail Forwarded ---------------
> From: worldnet.att.net!lothark(at)matronics.com AT INTERNET
> Date: 10/18/97 03:51 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com AT INTERNET
> Cc:
> Subject: RV-List: COMPRESSED AIR LINE/NOISE REDUCERS
>
> finishing
> my garage and need advice what
> type of air lines to install.
Started RV6A couple months back,used 1/2 plastic schedule 40 std. water
pipe,no leaks,inexpensive fittings,easy to make up,or change if you so
desire.Set pressure at 110 at compressor,seems to work fine for me.
Derek Reed
Grants Pass OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | One way for tail fairing |
ect.com>
>
>I am in the process of fitting the fuselage/empanage fairing on my -6.
>Confirming what I have heard from many builders, it came as no surprise
>that it initially fits like s***. Today I entertained the idea of
>pitching it totally, and glassing a new fairing from scratch. Is it
>worth the effort, or should I rework the one I've already got?
>
Bob ... there is an easy way that works ....
1. Go out and buy WEST epoxy and 411 microballoons.
2. Use Vans part as a male mold to make new fairing with only ONE layer of
4 oz. cloth. Get some mold wax and PVA release agent and use them to
ensure seperation after curing.
3. Tape everything in sight at the fin/stab. area with a layer of vinyl
tape. I used 3M #417 tape (also called 'glider tape' ...:^) Do not use
masking tape ... this taped surface must be a release for epoxy. Do a good
job here or you will find all sorts of eppenage parts unintentionally
bonded into a single assembly....:^)
4. The molding you just made is VERY flexible and can now be taped in place
at it's edges only (the edge 1/8 inch only) on the fin/stab junction. I
used vinyl electrical tape a different color from the tape of step 3. It
will hold it's curve well when the edges are held.
5. It probably won't fit well around the LE of the fin ... no big deal,
just cut a notch in the molding so it fits. Every plane seems to be
different in this area.
6. Lay up 2 layers of 9 oz. cloth (satin weave preferred) onto of your
thin, taped-in-place molding with the WEST epoxy. Use seperate pieces on
each side and overlap an inch or two at the centerline. The floppy cloth
should nicely bridge the the notch you had to cut in step 5. Use a peel
ply over the final wet layup and gently squegee the excess resin into the
peel ply ... I cut the peel ply into 3 to 4 inch wide strips since the peel
ply won't conform well to curves.
7. Let cure completely. Leave it for 2 or 3 times longer than you would
think ...:^)
8. Sand lightly .. you will usually need some sort of curved sanding block
... I made one from blue foam.
9. Any low spots found in the sanding step can be lightly filled with WEST
epoxy and microballoons applied with a squegee.
10. Sand again, sanding most of the filler off.
11. Repeat 9 and 10 until you are happy with the smoothness. I only needed
two applications of filler. All sanding was done by hand, starting with 60
grit. I found the latex paint compatible sandpaper (the green stuff) from
the hardware store to be the least likely to clog. When you are all done,
there should only be patches of filler left, not a complete layer of filler.
12. Pull the tape off that is holding the edge of the original single layer
molding down. A sideways motion works here since the tape edge is now
laminated between the original 4 oz layer and the later two 9 oz layers.
13. Trim the edges of the part to final dimensions .. usually this should
be just inside the tape location of step 4.
14. Remove all tape from step 3 that was providing a masking function.
14. Re-install fairing and drill for the #8 mounting screws.
This technique has been used on at least 4 local RV6s, and with the
WEST epoxy will give a much more stable molding than the original kit one.
It will also fit your plane EXACTLY. Other materials may work, but those
listed above definitely work and are easy to use. It was clean enough with
the WEST epoxy mini-pumps I found I could laminate a layer of cloth in my
regular clothes without a mess.
... hope this helps ...
... Gil (epoxy ain't that bad) Alexander
-------------------------------------------------------
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: jokes, for after lunch |
Please keep this useless " crap " OFF the rvlist--Thank You
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: fiberglass stuff |
>
> I made a mold out of the empanage fairing that I laid up on my
six.
> I decided to offer this fairing to listers for $30.00.
> Bob Skinner Buffalo, WY RV-6 380 hours bskinr(at)trib.com
>
Psssst. This is a steal. Sign now before Bob wakes up!
I laid up my own. It's a lot of work but VERY worth doing.
As an empennage fairing, Van's fairing makes great landfill.
I'd have given my eye teeth for a Skinner Floppy.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 doing the fiddly bits before engine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
>I was fabricating my HS-811 today. I pilot drilled all of the holes.
I
>measured 1/4" radius from the last hole and made the taper. On onside
of
>the taper I am under by about 1/64". If we factor in a minimum of "2D"
from
>the edge by the book, then this peice is scrap? Does the minimum 2D
take
>into effect the thickness of the material. In this case the 811 is a
lot
>thicker than a skin for example. Any suggestions would be appreciated
>
>Thanks,
>
>Tony Moradian
>RV-8 Empenage #80398
>tmoradia(at)ix.netcom.com
>
Tony,
Don't sweat it too much. As long as the taper of the aluminum pieces
blends nicely with the spar flanges (so the skin will sit down on the
spar flange without interference), it'll be fine. I haven't read in my
General practices manual about thickness making up for the 2D
requirement..but it seems to be intuitively correct. It's PLENTY strong
when it's all riveted together. The actual taper is not very dramatic
when it's all done. Go easy with the Vixen file...it'll be done before
you know it.
Brian Denk
wings on the way!
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fiberglass stuff |
. At Oshkosh, I spoke with Steve Barnard and had a
>chance to look at the fiberglass baffling that is used with the cowl.
>Does anyone know if the baffling kit is available yet from him?
A Fellow builder has the "Holey Cowl", but said yesterday that the
baffle isn't ready. He is waiting patiently he says.
Have a good one.
Denny RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 4 vs 8: decision? |
I struggled with the RV6 vs RV4 decision for a while and after a ride in the
RV4 at Oshkosh in 1995, I knew what path my life would take. There was no
question any more. The RV4 was the most beautiful airplane I had ever seen
and flying it made me realize I need an RV4. I spent three years making the
decision and I am convinced I made the right choice.
Have no fear about the non predrilled empennage of the RV4. I am about 7
weeks into it and am finished with the HS and VS and ready to close out the
rudder as soon as my 4 inch jaw arrives for the Avery squeezer. I have made
no scrap so far.
This list has been a big help to me and I would like to pass along some
things to new builders.
I made my jig crossmember out of 3/4" plywood. It is a box of 4" cross
section and is 117" long as per the instructions. I put a center support in
the middle to keep it from sagging. I went with plywood for its stability.
When preparing to drill the HS skins to the skeleton, use the Orndorff method
as opposed to the method in the instructions. That is to clamp down one side
and mark it with a Sharpie. This leaves nothing to chance.
The Avery tools are great. But beware the evil one hole piloted countersink,
for it will leave deep gouges around your rivet holes that will show up
through the primer. The little chip it pulls up is awfully sharp and
optimized for slicing up Alclad. Fortunately, the pilot broke off of it and
I went to the old style countersink which does less destruction.
The Ditzler DP 50 Grey epoxy primer is great stuff. I was trimming my rudder
skin and the primer stayed with the 1/8" waste as it curled into a tight
little helix. I uncurled it and flexed it to see if the primer would crack,
but it would not. I clean the parts with Acryliclean and then do an etch
with Ditzler Aluminum conditioner before priming. I am also Alodining the
outside surfaces of the skins.
My wings are on order. I understand the wing kits are predrilled now and I
am very concerned about this. Does this mean I have to precisely fit ribs so
they mate up with the skins ? Are the rib holes already drilled to the spar
so I don't have to use the skins to jig my holes ?
I am looking ahead to my fuselage jig. I was at the lumber yard and saw a
laminated wood product which is made for structural beams. It is 2" thick,
10" wide and as long as you need it to be. It is like long, thick plywood.
This would be perfect for the long members of the fuselage jig. It is
called Microllam and would cost about $1.25 a foot.
I hope some of this helps.
Mark McGee
RV4 Elevators in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-360 wt. and balance |
. My question is will putting the battery in the standard
>location keep me within the CG range with a 150 lb pilot or will I have
>to move it behind the pilot? I have seen it done both ways and wonder
>how the weight and balance came out on them.
Frank, I asked nearly the same question some time ago. I was assured by
several it would "probably" be OK with the battery up front. Of course I do
have an advantage, I have eaten more hamburgers. So I may have a better
chance :^)...but I had not mention that in my query. So you may be still in
the envelope.
Have a good one.
Denny RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: deciding between RV-4 and RV-8 |
Donald,
We've all gone through this decision making process and it's not an easy
decision. Too many of the criteria are subjective and only you can decide
which is best. My recommendation, if as you stated cost isn't a big concern,
go to Van's and ride in the airplanes. I've built a -6 and flew it for over
five years, have a lot of backseat time in -4s and have ridden in the yellow
-8. Although the airplanes all similarly, there are significant differences
that justify getting rides in each type you're considering. I guarantee you
though, you will be happy with whatever RV choice you make. I know I have
been, that's why I'm building a second RV, an -8.
Rick McBride
RV-8, 80027
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Crawford <tomc(at)afn.org> |
| Subject: | Florida builders |
Are there any RV builders on this list in the North or Central Florida
area? Please E-Mail me privately.
TIA,
Tom Crawford
Gainesville, FL
tomc(at)afn.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
I was replying to another inquiry, so am posting to list. Thanks. Les
----------
From: Flyinghi(at)worldnet.att.net
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 1997 12:23 PM
Subject: Temperfoam
I bought mine from Wicks. Both Wicks and Aircraft Spruce have it in our
sizes.
Charles Golden
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: alternator field switches |
At 11:22 PM 10/18/97, you wrote:
>
>>There must be about 100,000,000 automobles out there running around
without a
>>switch on the alternator field. Why is a switch so common on our little
>>airplanes. Or is it a case where I can't find mine on all my cars and
>>motorcycles. Someone tell me the problem of not having the switch.
P.S. Actually, most automotive alternators DO have a switch. It's
the one your key is stuck into. There's often a control line running
from the keyswitch to the alternator's built in regulator that
kills the alternator when the key is turned off . . . and 99.9%
of the time, it works. Problem that this line is not THE single
supply source of field current . . . simply a control line to some
itty-bitty transistors and stuff inside the regulator. If we're
prudend in the design of our electrical system, we have to concede
that those devices can fail to funtion . . . therefore, the stock
control line into an automotive alternator cannot be depended upon
for 100% authority over field current. This is the MAIN reason
why B&C takes perfectly good, brand new Nipon-Dienso alternators
apart to remove and bypass the built in regulators. When you open
the alternator field switch for a B&C alternator (as most others
flying around our there) the alternator is OFF.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Murphy, Jr." <murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us> |
Even though PVC schedule 40 is rated for 175 psi it specifically states that
it is not to be used for air lines. That is printed on every piece of PVC
down at the local plumbing supply shop. Does anyone know why?
Ray and Nancy Murphy
murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us
North Bend, OR
RV6A empenage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bumflyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 0-360 wt. and balance |
My config same as yours except 6A; however with friend used same scales his
cg was within .02 of mine.
Wt and balance is ok with battery in standard position. Mine was 70.1 aft
of datum with 100 lb pilot and full fuel and oil (most forward case).
D Walsh 6A, 85 hours
(having withdrawl symptoms as plane at paint shop for two weeks.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>Cozy Builders:
>
>There is another way to protect electrical circuits without using
>mechanical circuit breakers and wire fuses. About a year ago I received a
>data sheet for RAYCHEM's PolySwitch Resettable Fuses. A PolySwitch will
>trip when an overcurrent condition is present. The PolySwitch will reset
>only after it has cooled and the fault condition has been corrected.
>There's no need for manual resetting or replacement. These devices are
>available with trip points as low as 0.120 amps and as high as 9 amps.
>
>Littelfuse, which makes auto fuses, has a similiar product called Positive
>Temperature Coefficient(PTC) Resettable Devices.
>
>RAYCHEM and Littelfuse both appear to be using some type of conductive
>polymer in their circuit protectors in lieu of wire links and moving parts.
>
There's at least on product on the market using these devices. I've
posted both a design review and a usenet thread which intereseted
parties may read at <http://www.aeroelectric.com/xpbusthd.html>
and <http://www.aeroelectric.com/expbusad.html>.
I and several dozen other folk at Lear and Beech have look at these
devices several times over the last 15 years and still don't have a
way to apply these devices for general power distribution tasks
that satisfies our desire for positive protection and annunciated
faults. The polyswitches are packaged to mount inside a product . . .
soldered to an etched circuit board. The EXPBus does exactly that.
The problem is that manufacturing costs for utilizing the Polyswitch
make it more expensive to install and drives up parts count.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Lessons in survival . . . |
A titbit gleaned from another source but worthwile reading
for all of us . . .
------------------------------------------------------------------
Recently I posted a message about alternator whine in my headsets.
Its appearance coincided with spark plug R&R, so I suspected
cause-and-effect.
Today I fixed the problem. He're how:
1. Whine disappeared when Alternator switch turned off, so I
discounted the spark-plug noise theory.
2. Measured resistance of less than 0.1 ohm between alternator
housing to battery'spositive terminal--nothing wrong with
that.
3. How to check for bad voltage regulator? Disconnected wire
from the regulator 'F' terminal and connected a D-Cell
flashlight battery from the wire to ground. This produces a
tiny charge on the meter, but--and here's the important
part--I could still hear a whine in the headsets. Regulator
is therefore not the cause of whine. (I never seriously
considered it, but it was so easy to check...)
4. I now suspected the rectifier diodes in the alternator.
Removed alternator (discovered a cracked mounting bracket).
Connected the D-Cell flashlight battery from the Field terminal
to ground. Attached oscilloscope to output terminals, then
spun the pulley with my Makita (knew that buffer pad attachment
would come in handy some day). The output should look like
series of contiguous humps. Instead, every-other hump (or was
it every third?) was missing. Diode bridge is bad.
5. Took alternator to highly regarded alternator/starter shop in
SF Bay Area, which had the exact replacement part in stock. As
I watched, technician replaced diode bridge and bench-checked
the alternator under full load. He said brushes and bearings
were still fine. Cost: $12.40 for part, $17.50 labor.
6. Local AI welded bracket for $15 and later signed off my
reinstallation of alternator. (I didn't ask him to sign off
the *repair* of the alternator.)
6. Test flight. Voila! No more headset whine. Home in time
for lunch.
I now have a green-tagged alternator for $29.90.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Name withheld to protect the guilty. Folks, here's an excellent
example of an investigation to determine the real cause of an
effect based on step-by-step trouble shooting and analysis.
I might have taken a different approach but the end result
would have been the same. An important point is that very
FEW a/p mechanics have the skill to successfully carry out
this kind of investigation. Every year, hundreds of thousands
of dollars are spent on labor hours and parts-not-needed on
GA aircraft because the mechanic is guessing and trouble shooting
by subsititution. And, of course, once a part is installed
on your airplane, it's your's whether you needed it or not.
Lest anyone misunderstand, I recognize that there some fine,
skilled mechanics out there who do an educated, honorable
job of working on people's airplanes. But how do you KNOW
which ones they are? The ticket hanging on the wall of the
shop office guarantees nothing.
You have but one good defense, take the time to know more
about your airplane's inner workings.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Alternator Switches |
>>There must be about 100,000,000 automobles out there running around
without a
>>switch on the alternator field. Why is a switch so common on our little
>>airplanes. Or is it a case where I can't find mine on all my cars and
>>motorcycles. Someone tell me the problem of not having the switch.
>
> Excellent question . . . and sure, the answer is simple. In airplanes,
> the prudent way to architecture and operate an electrical system is to
> assume that at some point, each and every electrical system component
> is capable of failing in flight. After deducing ALL the ways an alternator
> system can fail, one finds several conditions under which you need to have
> separate and total control over the alternator field current. (1) the
> alternator has become disconnected from the bus but is still drawing
> maximum field current because the regulator thinks the alternator is
> simply shirking . . . it applies full field current in hopes of
> flogging the alternator to life. In flight, this is a LARGE and useless
> drain on the battery that you'd like to conserve for running really useful
> things. (2) You're on short final to an unplanned arrival with the earth
> and you want a way to get all electrical sources shut down before
> contact with the rocks, trees, whatever . . . (3) If for any reason,
> one might turn the battery master off before stopping the engine, the
> alternator may continue to run, self-excited but poorly regulated
> and be a real bother to other electrical sytem parts that may object
> to the poor quality power. There might be others but these are pretty
> compelling.
>
P.S. Actually, most automotive alternators DO have a switch. It's
the one your key is stuck into. There's often a control line running
from the keyswitch to the alternator's built in regulator that
kills the alternator when the key is turned off . . . and 99.9%
of the time, it works. Problem that this line is not THE single
supply source of field current . . . simply a control line to some
itty-bitty transistors and stuff inside the regulator. If we're
prudend in the design of our electrical system, we have to concede
that those devices can fail to funtion . . . therefore, the stock
control line into an automotive alternator cannot be depended upon
for 100% authority over field current. This is the MAIN reason
why B&C takes perfectly good, brand new Nipon-Dienso alternators
apart to remove and bypass the built in regulators. When you open
the alternator field switch for a B&C alternator (as most others
flying around our there) the alternator is OFF.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fixed or tail dragger |
> Some of you might be interested in my experience in trying to
> decide between the 6 and the 6A.
Guess it wasn't as interesting as I thought.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
Bob, is the insulation (crosslinked extruded polyalkene) on the AWG #2
M81044/9 surplus wire that you sell closely related to TFE (teflon)?
>
>Hello all:
>I am about to finish up the wiring for my left wing and have questions.
>
>Is it acceptable to use non-milspec wire for things like, landing
>lights, heated pitot tube, etc.?
>
>Thanks
>--
>Rick and Barbara Osgood
Why not use mil-spec? It doesn't take much and it's easy to get.
Mil-W-22759/16 wire is the wire of choice and sold by the foot
by Aircraft Spruce et. als. If you've got an avionics shop or
FBO with a good repair shop nearby, they may sell you short pieces
of the fatter wires for landing lights and pitot heat.
The problem with most other wires is their insulation. If not a
close cousin to teflon (22759 is Tefzel), the insulation gets
brittle with age and WILL be a problem at some time in the future.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Control Stick Grips |
<< A call to them revealed they wanted $241 for one grip...that's
> a...well...plain ripoff. Anybody know a cheaper source for this, or a
> similar, grip >>
Rob,
I have the infinity Aerospace F4 style grip on my 4. I really like the feel,
and the switch functions. I saw a couple people have already stated price and
shipping address, so I will elaborate a little further on other items.
Would I buy one again? Probably not. Even at $165.00 I think its is
overpriced for what it is. It requires a lot of modification to get it to fit
the diameter of stick we have. He has it designed more around a long Ez.
Right now I am staring at a Thrustmaster Mark II FCS Joystick that I have for
my computer, I bought it on sale for $60.00. It is exactly the same in size
and looks ( with the exception it has different style switches). It splits
down the middle verticaly same as the infinity aerospace grip does. I am sure
with the same effort I put into getting the Infinity grip to work I could
make this one work for alot less $$$$$. These Joysticks are designed to take
thousands of hours with kids beating on them all the time. (wrenching them
from side to side, up and down, all around, not to mention jamming the
switches all the way in with intense pressure). Some how I think they would
stand up to the mild abuse we would give them. Dont get me wrong I love my
grip and wouldnt change it, I just think you can do the same for less.
Ryan RV4 Thornton Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | More Tip questions |
I have sanded off all gel coat on my HS and elevator tips in the process =
of
fitting them. I am under the impression that this is done so that
imperfections under the gel coat can be filled in and that it unnecessari=
ly
adds weight since the parts will be painted anyway.
My neighbor, who has extensive auto body experience was surprised that I
sanded it all off. He said it could simply be scuffed then painted (he n=
ow
sells S-W auto paint). Should I have removed all of the gel coat or just=
on the ends to get a good fit (it is not too late for the VS & rudder)? =
He
also suggested that it might be a good idea at this point to put a thin
layer of primer on the parts, at least along the edge that will be rivete=
d
against the skins to prevent the part from absorbing moisture. Is this a=
good idea? how about the inside of the tips? I have never heard of this=
being done but it sounds reasonable to me.
No, he is not trying to sell me more primer to make a buck, he sells me h=
is
two part vynal etch epoxy and spray can primers at his cost. Incidentall=
y,
I have been very happy with both to date.
Thanks
Scott A. Jordan
80331
N733JJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . .Yeahbut.....] |
<< (1) the
alternator has become disconnected from the bus but is still drawing
maximum field current because the regulator thinks the alternator is
simply shirking . . . it applies full field current in hopes of
flogging the alternator to life. In flight, this is a LARGE and useless
drain on the battery that you'd like to conserve for running really useful
things. (2) You're on short final to an unplanned arrival with the earth
and you want a way to get all electrical sources shut down before
contact with the rocks, trees, whatever . . . (3) If for any reason,
one might turn the battery master off before stopping the engine, the
alternator may continue to run, self-excited but poorly regulated
and be a real bother to other electrical sytem parts that may object
to the poor quality power. There might be others but these are pretty
compelling.
>>
Come to think of it, I seem to remember an alternator failing in one of my
cars.
Thanks for the reason.
Gene, cafgef(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: re: Temperfoam |
>
>The product you are looking for is Conforfoam. One company markets it
>under the name Temperfoam. Another calls it Aerofoam. Only one company
>makes it. It is expensive. It is heavier than other foams.
>It does change with temperature. Multi layers of it can become very
>uncomfortable in cool weather since you body heat would not warm the lower
>layers. I have found a lower base of very high density - for support -
>high resilientcy - for comfort - with a 1" layer of conforfoam on top makes
>a very comfortable seat.
>I order conforfoam in 1"x30"x72" sheets and can cut to any size. The
>product is not widely available in auto or furniture upholsterers. If I
>can be of help call or E-mail.
>Since you are building up your seat quite a ways you may want to add a
>metal (or other firm material) seat riser. Be sure to make it higher at
>the front than at the back to provide a comfortable seating angle. I would
>be happy to share plans for such to give you an idea of one way to
>accomplish this.
>
>Thanks,
>
>DJ Lauritsen
>Cleaveland Aircraft Tool
>2225 First St.
>Boone, IA 50036
>1-800-368-1822
>clevtool(at)tdsi.net
>http://www.cleavelandtool.com
For those new to the list,
This is an unsolicited plug for Cleveland Tools.
I purchased upholstery for my RV through the above company. They are great,
terrific workmanship, well thought out, very comfortable (well in the
garage anyway).
I would take the Lauritsens as an authority on foams and such.
Cheers,
Leo Davies, baffling a 6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
>
>Hello all:
>I am about to finish up the wiring for my left wing and have questions.
>
>Is it acceptable to use non-milspec wire for things like, landing
>lights, heated pitot tube, etc.?
>
>Thanks
>--
>Rick and Barbara Osgood
Yebbut,
Wire is really cheap, and wire trouble is really irritating to
troubleshoot. Buy good wire.
Leo Davies
leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
> I have talked at our EAA chapter about the basics of drilling holes,
>and am still amazed at the number of builders who do not know that drill
>bits come in different types and "angles", and what you buy at the hardware
>store is usually NOT what is best for drilling aluminum.
>
> Spend a little extra up front and buy drill bits from a good
>insdustrial supply source that are "split point" and have a 118 degrees
>grind angle. These will work much better in aluminum sheet and are less
>like to slip off the mark as you start drilling -- the 118 degrees grind is
>a 'pointier' (technical term ...:^) than the standard 135 degree drill bit.
> ... Gil (the right bits make better holes) Alexander ...
>
>EAA Technical Counselor, Chapter 40, Northridge, CA
Gil,
I have always been puzzled about this. My understanding was that for nice
straight tracking you needed to have both the point and the shoulders of a
drill bit in metal at the same time. Therefore for thin sheet (most of what
we do), a less "pointy" bit would be better. It clearly aint so, did I miss
a step somwhere?
Leo Davies
Leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Lycoming documentation |
Dear List,
I need a little help from engine gurus. I have a lovely new lycoming 0-360
from Vans. Very proud of it. But....... the documentation is not very
helpful. The new engine has a nice new carb in a box. When you open the
box it is full of bits of hardware as well as the carb. There are cushioned
clamps, plastic doo-hickeys that look like they might be cable clamps,
exhaust gaskets (I think), galvanised nuts (also for exhaust maybe?), two
gaskets, one of which is for the carb mounting by the looks of it (but
there is another one on the engine already) and one for god knows what,
some stainless steel screws.... you get the picture. Is there a parts
list......noooooo. Are there any clues......noooooooo.
So... somewhere there must be a document that tells you what to do with all
the bits, presumably an optional Lycoming document .... Does anyone know
its name and from where you get it?
And in the meantime...... I would really like to mount the carb so I can
get on with life. There are no fasteners in the above mentioned box that
look useful for this. What should I use to mount the beast while I chase
documents.... Standard nylocks? Flat washers?
All input greatly appreciated.
Leo Davies (on a whole new learning curve)
leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BrownTool(at)aol.com |
<< Anyone know of any good suppliers of used tools, ie. Pneumatic squeezer?
>>
My company has a limited selection of used aircraft sheetmetal tools
available as well as a complete selection of new sheetmetal tools, including:
rivet guns, drill motors, clecos, countersinks, threaded drills, bucking bars
etc. A free copy of our mail order catalog is available to any RV builder
that is interested. Please provide your mailing address OFFLINE to:
BrownTool(at)aol.com or you may call toll free 1-800-587-3883 to request
a copy.
Thanks,
Michael Brown
Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co.
Bethany, Oklahoma
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fran Malczynski <fmalczy(at)ibm.net> |
Tony Moradian wrote:
>
>
> I was fabricating my HS-811 today. I pilot drilled all of the holes. On onside
of
> the taper I am under by about 1/64". by the book, then this peice is scrap?
I can barely make out the grqduation on my ruler for 1/64. I have a sign
on my garage wall that says "remember your building an airplane, not a
heart valve." I try to keep this in mind. Keep the piece and move
on.....
Fran Malczynski
Olcott, NY
RV6 - Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BrownTool(at)aol.com |
<< Spend a little extra up front and buy drill bits from a good
>insdustrial supply source that are "split point" and have a 118 degrees
>grind angle. These will work much better in aluminum sheet and are less
>like to slip off the mark as you start drilling -- the 118 degrees grind is
>a 'pointier' (technical term ...:^) than the standard 135 degree drill bit.
>>
Most drill bits that are available at your local Home Depot, Ace Hardware, or
Lowes, are 118 degree. As a licensed A&P technician and a former employee
of a Lockheed aircraft factory, I can tell you that you would be hard
pressed to find a 118 degree drill bit in an aircraft factory, and with good
reason, 135 degree point drills are less likely to "walk" on aluminum
because they are "self centering"
and require less thrust. (Source: Precision Twist Drill Company Technical
Manual)
Do yourself a favor and spend the extra pennies and buy the proper drill bit
for the proper application.
Feel free to E-Mail any technical questions OFFLINE and I will try to respond
as soon as possible.
Take Care & Have Fun Building,
Michael Brown
Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co.
Bethany, OK
BrownTool(at)aol.com
1-800-587-3883
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <glenn(at)chocolatetruffles.com> |
Hi,
RE: RV-6 inboard leading edge.
On my RV-6 quick build kit, the leading edge of the wings at the most
inboard side of the fuel tanks is bent in. The bends are very uniform
and look intentional. I can't find any reference to anything like this?
Are they supposed to be there?
-Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
charset="iso-8859-1"
>Do yourself a favor and spend the extra pennies and buy the proper drill
bit
>for the proper application.
>
>Feel free to E-Mail any technical questions OFFLINE and I will try to
respond
>as soon as possible.
>
>Take Care & Have Fun Building,
>
>Michael Brown
>Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co.
>Bethany, OK
>BrownTool(at)aol.com
>1-800-587-3883
>
>
>
>
>
Why respond off-line? I am on this list to learn stuff. Discuss on the
list, I might learn something .
Danny
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
They want to sell you the more expensive metal and rubber tubing?
FWIW I have PVC carrying air to 24,000 sq ft in my Paper Recycling
warehouse, with no problems. There are at least 5 plug in points on the
lines, the farthest being over 300 ft, and plenty of bends. The
compressor is 35 hp, but it's also running a Micropulse dust collecting
unit, and there's plenty left over for air tools. The only leakes I have
are in the rubber hoses. IMO PVC is the least expense, and the least
hassle. Don't be afraid to use it.
Maurice Colontonio
Cherry Hill, NJ
-8 Tail (Tools ordered, starting this week)
>
> Even though PVC schedule 40 is rated for 175 psi it specifically states that
> it is not to be used for air lines. That is printed on every piece of PVC
> down at the local plumbing supply shop. Does anyone know why?
>
> Ray and Nancy Murphy
> murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us
> North Bend, OR
> RV6A empenage
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flyinghi(at)worldnet.att.net |
With my fancy MAC control grips installed and flying in my garage, the
control stick is very high and uncomfortable. Maybe this is the height of
my seat or my height but I am considering cutting an inch or two off the
stick. Does anyone have actual experience they can share with me and the
group concerning this process.
Regards,
Charles Golden
RV-6A
SN 24765
Chevy Powered
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Drill bits: was Tools |
>
>
><< Spend a little extra up front and buy drill bits from a good
> >insdustrial supply source that are "split point" and have a 118 degrees
> >grind angle. These will work much better in aluminum sheet and are less
> >like to slip off the mark as you start drilling -- the 118 degrees grind is
> >a 'pointier' (technical term ...:^) than the standard 135 degree drill bit.
>>>
>
>
>Most drill bits that are available at your local Home Depot, Ace Hardware, or
>Lowes, are 118 degree. As a licensed A&P technician and a former employee
>of a Lockheed aircraft factory, I can tell you that you would be hard
>pressed to find a 118 degree drill bit in an aircraft factory, and with good
>reason, 135 degree point drills are less likely to "walk" on aluminum
>because they are "self centering"
>and require less thrust. (Source: Precision Twist Drill Company Technical
>Manual)
Sorry, but I had to answer ....
All the bits I bought from my hardware store are 135 degrees, and only
about 50% of them are also split point. Hold one up and compare it to the
correct 118 degree drill bit and you can see that the 135 degree one is
quite a bit "blunter". I did perform this test before I did a presentation
to my EAA Chapter 40.
I do definitely agree on the need that the drill bit should be "split
point" -- this is a little difficut to describe, but if you look carefully
you can see two ground surfaces behind each cutting edge instead of a
single surface. This really helps the 'walking' syndrome. Is it the
spilt-point that is helping in your description (self-centering) above, not
the 135 degrees?
As to the right bit to use .... (Source : FAA AC-65-15A, A&P Mechanics
Airframe Handbook)
"Drilling (page 169)
.....
When drilling hard metals the the twist drill should have an
included angle of 118 degrees and should be operated at low speeds; but for
soft metals, use a twist drill with an included angle of 90 degrees {= I
haven't found a commercial source of 90 degree bits --- Gil =} and it
should be operated at higher speeds. Thin sheets of aluminum alloy are
drilled with greater accuracy by a drill having an included angle of 118
degrees ....."
The 135 degree drills are suited for harder materials, so it would
make sense that they would be a hardware store standard (who knows what the
customer is going to drill ..:^). Perhaps most of the alloys Lockheed were
using could also be classified as 'hard'??
>
>Do yourself a favor and spend the extra pennies and buy the proper drill bit
>for the proper application.
I totally agree ....
>
>Feel free to E-Mail any technical questions OFFLINE and I will try to respond
>as soon as possible.
... I'll check with our mechanical engineers at work tomorrow for
further references ...
Gil (who reads the documents) Alexander
Also an Licensed Airframe Technician
>
>Take Care & Have Fun Building,
>
>Michael Brown
>1-800-587-3883
-------------------------------------------------------
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
IMO PVC is the least expense, and the least
>hassle. Don't be afraid to use it.
>
>Maurice Colontonio
>> Even though PVC schedule 40 is rated for 175 psi it specifically states that
>> it is not to be used for air lines. That is printed on every piece of PVC
>> down at the local plumbing supply shop. Does anyone know why?
>>
>> Ray and Nancy Murphy
Maurice,
It seems that I read (maybe on the list) about concerns of possible
explosions and the resulting "shrapnel" effect on bystanders. Although, as
you are in a business and probably do a lot of business with insurance
companies, I would have thought that if there were a danger, they would have
pointed it out.
Rubber hoses can cause excitement when they let go, as well.
Also, be careful of your connectors between hoses. Check for wear and
solid connections. I had a coupling let go right undeer the wing of my six
and the "propelled" end did a little dance right under the wing and
fuselage. Luckily, the wildly swinging end didn't hit the plane. Whew!
Bob Skinner RV-6 380 hrs Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net> |
If the pvc lines get cold and get bumped against
they will explode I used to use them in my tire
shop. OSHA also rules against that type. I've
lost a couple over the years and decided to go to
black pipe. I use copper soldered together at home
it's permanent anyway.
Mike Comeaux
----------
> From: MoeJoe <bellatlantic.net!moejoe(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Air Lines
> Date: Sunday, October 19, 1997 7:22 PM
>
>
> They want to sell you the more expensive metal and rubber tubing?
>
> FWIW I have PVC carrying air to 24,000 sq ft in my Paper Recycling
> warehouse, with no problems. There are at least 5 plug in points on the
> lines, the farthest being over 300 ft, and plenty of bends. The
> compressor is 35 hp, but it's also running a Micropulse dust collecting
> unit, and there's plenty left over for air tools. The only leakes I have
> are in the rubber hoses. IMO PVC is the least expense, and the least
> hassle. Don't be afraid to use it.
>
> Maurice Colontonio
> Cherry Hill, NJ
> -8 Tail (Tools ordered, starting this week)
> >
> > Even though PVC schedule 40 is rated for 175 psi it specifically states
that
> > it is not to be used for air lines. That is printed on every piece of
PVC
> > down at the local plumbing supply shop. Does anyone know why?
> >
> > Ray and Nancy Murphy
> > murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us
> > North Bend, OR
> > RV6A empenage
> >
|
|
|
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Denman <mikedenman(at)earthlink.net> |
Ray Murphy, Jr. wrote:
>
>
> Even though PVC schedule 40 is rated for 175 psi it specifically states that
> it is not to be used for air lines. Does anyone know why?
>
> Ray and Nancy Murphy
> murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us
> North Bend, OR
> RV6A empenage
>
I have also used PVC for air lines in a 40,000 sq. ft. Mfg. area and it
does work and it is cheap and it is easy and it is ILLEGAL because it is
potentially, if not actually, Dangerous! The problem is that the PVC
dries out over time and if bent, bumped, or hit, can explode with shards
of plastic flying like a hand genade. Not a pretty sight. We had a
person push a work bench up against a piece of PVC at work which
shattered with a system pressure of 100 psi. Fortunately, no one was
hurt although it scared the *%&#* out of everyone. We shut the system
down and converted to copper. You have probably have seen a variation
of this problem if you have ever dug up an old sprinkler system that is
PVC. When installed it is flexible and pliable. Dig it up after a few
years and it is stiff and brittle and shatters if bent. If you have a
business that falls under the scope of OSHA you can get a citation
and/or fine for using PVC for air lines.
I have installed copper lines in my garage and it isn't that hard to do.
(use cooper because it doesn't rust...rust and moisture are bad for air
tools!) I have a 5 hp compressor and a 60 gallon tank and twenty
outlets. To run the cooper line took the better part of a day. I made
provisions for moisture drains at the end of each run and came off the
TOP of the lines with a 2" piece and an elbow and screwed the quick
disconnects into the elbow. This helps keep the moisture out of the
rubber air lines going to your tools. Its nice to put several
regulators in the system for different demands...high psi for drills and
grinders...low psi for blow guns, paint sprayers and rivet guns. If you
have an excess of money include an Air dryer. Otherwise, spring for a
moisture trap. An oil trap is "necessary" for the "best" results when
spraying paint. Many of these items are available used at industrial
junkyards for practically nothing if you can't afford new.
Good luck!
Mike Denman
RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
PTidball(at)macsource.com
| Subject: | Edwards Air Force Base Open House |
| From: | gasobek(at)juno.com (Gary A. Sobek) |
The RV's were out in force at the Edward's Air Force Base this weekend.
I forgot to count how many. N157GS left the test flight area for the
first time to attend. 25.4 hours testing were completed. All went well
getting in except for the vectors given to sequence arriving traffic.
The 25 minute flight ended up being 40 minutes. Departure did not go as
well. First let me apologize to all the RV pilots that were there for
overheating right when my clearance to depart was given. That did not
look well to have an RV fall along the wayside with the Lancair. Any
suggestions on how to keep the engine running when the oil temperature is
over redline would be appreciated. I know that the other RV's were
talking on 122.75 after departure about the same problem.
Oil temperature redline on my engine is 118 C (245 F).
I know problems were developing when the oil temperature hit 121 C (250
F). The engine started missing and almost died. Turning on the boost
pump it began running well again. I suspect that this was the beginning
of Vapor Lock. After 15 more minutes, oil temp reached 124 C (256 F) and
I was cleared to taxi into position and hold. Advancing the throttle,
the engine started missing and then stopped. (Vapor Lock?) I waited
until most of the aircraft departed (apx 30 minutes) and then restarted.
It missed a little but then started running smooth. Oil temp was now
about 104 C (219F) I think. Clearance was received and we then departed.
Climb out was not as good as should be since I had about 125 # of
baggage. We were the baggage wagon for another plane that was there. I
kept air speed over 100 Kts and climb near 500 FPM so that I could clear
the 8,000 + feet San Gabriel Mountains. Prop was pulled back to 2500 RPM
at about 500 AGL. After leveling off at 9,500, we cruised for about 5
minutes before starting an 1,200 to 1,500 FPM decent home. My friends
were on the ground in the dark when we arrived. I had all of my lights
on and was not happy to be told that when the airplane had all the lights
on, it looked like a Christmas Whore.
If anyone has any suggestion on operation of a HOT engine on the ground
for extended waits, please advise. I do not have any experience
operating airplane engines on the ground for the 45 + minutes it takes
after engine start till departure clearance comes. This was a new
experience that I do not want to have again.
BTW, I have firesleave on all fuel lines and a heat shield on the
gastrolavage. I have provisions for a "blast tube" on the gastrolavage
heat shield but have not hooked it up. Oil cooler is on the firewall.
This keep oil temperature a little higher than on the right left rear
baffle. I do not have firm data on other aircraft but my oil temp at
cruise speed and power tends to run 88-90 C (190-194 F) This is warmer
than the 180 F that most others report. It also has been warm in Southern
California on almost all of my flights. Above 31 C (88 F) to as high as
39 C (103 F). Only one flight at 22 C (72) yielded an oil temp of 80 C
(176 F).
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 N157GS O-320 C.S.
"Look out paint shop, here I come!"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry D. Hoatson" <lhoatson(at)e2.empirenet.com> |
This weekend at the Edwards AFB Open House there were a number of RVs on
display. I noticed that there were 3 types (at least) of wing tips on
the -6s. The most common I believe was the factory supplied tips. Then
there were the tips on Steve Barnard's and Tracy Saylor's planes.
What differences are there in performance and handling between the
different tips?
Larry
--
Larry D. Hoatson Yucaipa, CA Redlands (L12) Airport
lhoatson(at)empirenet.com
Restoring 1950 Cessna 170A N9948A... Looking forward to RV-6
"Either Raise Your Skill Level... or Lower Your Standards"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)atheria.europa.com> |
Ray, I worked in a machine shop for a period of time and we used PVC pipe.
A safety inspector came through and informed us that we were in violation of
some code. The problem seems to be that Schedule 40 is brittle, and if
your forklift or something were to strike the pipe, it could shatter and
send shrapnel around the shop. Their recommendation is a gray colored
plastic, which will not shatter. What is the probability of the pipe
shattering? I don't know, but I would use the inexpensive PVC in my shop.
The only problem we had in the machine shop was on hot days the glue would
occassionally soften and the pressure would blow a joint apart. Of course,
hot days in the northwet, I mean northwest are few and far between. Bill
>
>Even though PVC schedule 40 is rated for 175 psi it specifically states that
>it is not to be used for air lines. That is printed on every piece of PVC
>down at the local plumbing supply shop. Does anyone know why?
>
>
>
>Ray and Nancy Murphy
>murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us
>North Bend, OR
>RV6A empenage
>
Bill
RV-4-180 flying. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)atheria.europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming documentation |
Leo, Surely you have not been spoiled with the detailed instructions that
you get with Van's kits ;-) Just use your imagination about the parts you
received with the engine. Most of the nuts are for the exhaust system.
Count them out. There should be 8 nuts for the exhaust. There will be four
for the carby (as the down-under guys call it) and they will look just like
the type you buy at any hardware store in America. Although you will find
nylocks used "under-the-hood", you should really limit the use because heat
from the engine can cause them to back off. Some of the FAA inspectors
frown on even one nylock in the engine compartment. The clamps are used to
support the ignition wires and the plastic do-hickies are used to feed the
ignition wires through the baffles.
I did not find a parts list either, but I just used parts as needed and
still had a few left over after installation. Best thing to do is look at a
certified installation and see the components used and follow their example.
Bill
At 09:17 AM 10/20/97, you wrote:
>
>Dear List,
>
>I need a little help from engine gurus. I have a lovely new lycoming 0-360
>from Vans. Very proud of it. But....... the documentation is not very
>helpful. The new engine has a nice new carb in a box. When you open the
>box it is full of bits of hardware as well as the carb. There are cushioned
>clamps, plastic doo-hickeys that look like they might be cable clamps,
>exhaust gaskets (I think), galvanised nuts (also for exhaust maybe?), two
>gaskets, one of which is for the carb mounting by the looks of it (but
>there is another one on the engine already) and one for god knows what,
>some stainless steel screws.... you get the picture. Is there a parts
>list......noooooo. Are there any clues......noooooooo.
>
>So... somewhere there must be a document that tells you what to do with all
>the bits, presumably an optional Lycoming document .... Does anyone know
>its name and from where you get it?
>
>
>And in the meantime...... I would really like to mount the carb so I can
>get on with life. There are no fasteners in the above mentioned box that
>look useful for this. What should I use to mount the beast while I chase
>documents.... Standard nylocks? Flat washers?
>
>All input greatly appreciated.
>
>
>Leo Davies (on a whole new learning curve)
>
>leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
Bill
RV-4-180 flying. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
Glenn ,
There are not to be any dents in our wings I would call Vans
soon...George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)meridium.com> |
| Subject: | Avery 3 or 4" yoke |
Anyone have a 3 or 4" yoke for the avery hand squeezer they are willing
to part with please contact me directly.
Gary
Gfesenbek(at)meridium.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <AndersonE(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Mazda Rotary Power Plant and Two hours needed in RV-6 |
Hi,
First time on the rv-list. Have completed an RV-6A powered with fuel
injected Mazda Rotary (Wankel) 13B engine. Awaiting FAA inspection and plan
to be in the air in November. Am looking to get two hours in an RV-6 for
insurance purposes (does not need to be PIC time). Anyone in and around the
Northern Virginia area (East Coast?) who could accommodate, I would
appreciate hearing from you.
Thanks
Ed Anderson
10300 Dunn Meadow Road
Vienna, VA 22182-1361
RV-6A N494BW
(703) 902-7005 work
(703) 759-6712 Home
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Edwards Air Force Base Open House |
unbelievably high oil temp story deleted......
Gary, and others:
I've seen auto racers staging their cars by pushing them to a spot near the
starting point, and starting engines there. I have always thought that this
was due to their using a cooling system that is minimal, sort of like ours
(air cooled) is. I have done this at airshows, where the spotters want you
staged LONG before you due to fly, and the Ol' Lyc would surely melt before
it got the proper airflow for operation. Was this an option at Edwards? What
was the ambient temp? What the heck was the long delay due to? The push could
have been a long one, or you could notify ground control that you were
shutting down for a bit to control temps, and intermittantly run the engine
October 09, 1997 - October 20, 1997
RV-Archive.digest.vol-dm